pokeroo: Thanks for the reply.
To clarify - haha I didn't mean that's all we do; I guess most BJK schools train extremely lightly then? Besides the brutal stuff, we train fairly hard (harder than we did in TKD anyway), and we do indeed spar (i.e. "ok hit me any way you want and I'll see what comes out"); what I thought the "they don't spar" reference was directed at was the fact that they don't go full contact on all techniques.
I'm aware of the equal force law; some of it is just out of general interest, but yeah it's mainly for self defense (don't worry I'm not going to be gouging out eyes). I'm not saying they all do that, I'm saying some of them do, and do so well, both out of intrinsic interest in the arts and for self defense.
Actually what I'm more interested in is the balance manipulation, which is hard to get but works quite impressively (on me anyway) - I'd like to know people's feedback on that. And quite honestly I'm really curious as to what works well in actual combat situations, as I've had trouble finding credible information on this (if Gezere hasn't yet determined that it's too far above this ignorant bufoon's head).

It is fake: Man you guys are brutal here! I'm not saying they have some super secret magic skill, I'm saying a large amount of the people in BJK don't get everything from the instructors, same as what goes on in some of the Gracie dojos (if I understand correctly, read that in another post).

And if you paid really close attention, you'd sometimes hear about "other" guys in there to study the art - like the "NSA guy" paid to live in Japan and train there, who isn't pointed out or named, for example.

Edit: Alright, I've been reading half the day, and I get it. Plenty I didn't know about the culture of Bujinkan, as well as of this website. I'll keep reading now. Any way to make this thread disappear?

Hey CFGuy, I guess you've already figured it out by now, but yea I'm not entirely sure how your "full contact sparring" is, but 99% of Bujinkan schools don't do any form of actual sparring whatsoever, they actually just do drills the entire class from beginning to end. I also used to be in the Bujinkan, although not for as long as you, I was only in it for about 6 months or so, but I also happened to vacation to Japan so I checked out the Hombu dojo as well as some other Japanese dojos and I didn't see any sparring in any of them.

It is fake: Man you guys are brutal here! I'm not saying they have some super secret magic skill, I'm saying a large amount of the people in BJK don't get everything from the instructors, same as what goes on in some of the Gracie dojos (if I understand correctly, read that in another post).

There's a difference between brutal and brutally honest. As far as we're concerned, there's only one way to be taken seriously: Provide proof. Proof is not statements, comments, or word of mouth. In this modern age, it's video or legitimate competitive record. And before you say "it's the street, sport doesn't matter!" keep in mind that street fights are illegal, and therefore don't generally have video evidence, lest the participants end up in jail. As such, they usually amount to word-of-mouth. And if we're going to take that as evidence, give me a week and I can have a 5000-0 record.

Originally Posted by CFGuy

Edit: Alright, I've been reading half the day, and I get it. Plenty I didn't know about the culture of Bujinkan, as well as of this website. I'll keep reading now. Any way to make this thread disappear?

IIF took care of that for you it looks like. But good on you for actually taking a moment to read the site and gain perspective. Most n00bs rant for a bit then tuck their tails and leave (if they're from the booj anyway).

It is fake: Man you guys are brutal here! I'm not saying they have some super secret magic skill, I'm saying a large amount of the people in BJK don't get everything from the instructors, same as what goes on in some of the Gracie dojos (if I understand correctly, read that in another post).

Dude no.

I understand the points and arguments here, and I'm not here to speculate history, but I really think the upper level BJK teachers are much, much smarter than they let on.

Dey dun hided they smartz.

They'd just train with each other on a different level - not a "different art" or anything weird, just show them some of the less known unconventional stuff for fun (acrobatic stuff), and sometimes show them a few little simple tricks they wouldn't quite trust the group

pokeroo: Thanks for the reply.
To clarify - haha I didn't mean that's all we do; I guess most BJK schools train extremely lightly then? Besides the brutal stuff, we train fairly hard (harder than we did in TKD anyway), and we do indeed spar (i.e. "ok hit me any way you want and I'll see what comes out"); what I thought the "they don't spar" reference was directed at was the fact that they don't go full contact on all techniques.
I'm aware of the equal force law; some of it is just out of general interest, but yeah it's mainly for self defense (don't worry I'm not going to be gouging out eyes). I'm not saying they all do that, I'm saying some of them do, and do so well, both out of intrinsic interest in the arts and for self defense.
Actually what I'm more interested in is the balance manipulation, which is hard to get but works quite impressively (on me anyway) - I'd like to know people's feedback on that. And quite honestly I'm really curious as to what works well in actual combat situations, as I've had trouble finding credible information on this (if Gezere hasn't yet determined that it's too far above this ignorant bufoon's head).

It is fake: Man you guys are brutal here! I'm not saying they have some super secret magic skill, I'm saying a large amount of the people in BJK don't get everything from the instructors, same as what goes on in some of the Gracie dojos (if I understand correctly, read that in another post).

The reason I left... I would like to say that I came to my senses, but it was really a combination of a few things. They moved their dojo to somewhere less accessible due to the landlord upped the rent in the old place. The other thing was I left for college. It was a while later when I searched ninjutsu on the internet that I got exposure to criticism that people were either too nice to tell me in person, or people that I knew weren't familiar with it.

The other thing is that before I quit I was getting fed up with the social aspect of the club. For one thing in order to advance you had to become proficient in certain material that required training with a partner. People seemed to join and advance in groups like social cliques. I got stuck in a rut when after a period of not training I couldn't train the material I needed often enough. Also virtually noone attended my gradings when they did happen.

In addition to that there was very little structure. On some days classes were advertised that were convenient for me, only no-one else showed up, but the instructor didn't help me much, he basically told me I could have open mat by myself, and he would go off and do his own thing. I felt like I was paying good money for this and was unsatisfied.

As for switching I switched with a lot of influence from the bullshido forums. I wound up staying with combat sports for a number of reasons. 1) I like the workout. 2) Every class I learn something and while there is a social aspect, I can go there for the training, which is what in my opinion should be the case at any respectable combat gym. 3) I am learning techniques that are tested every day. 4) Its a lot of fun. 5) I could go on forever... will stop at 4.

Originally Posted by CFGuy

Edit: Alright, I've been reading half the day, and I get it. Plenty I didn't know about the culture of Bujinkan, as well as of this website. I'll keep reading now. Any way to make this thread disappear?

The thread won't disappear unless it is illegal (eg racism, pornography), and even then probably just the illegal posts will disappear. But don't feel bad. The posts were moved to a more appropriate forum, and believe me in a couple weeks there will be 20 more noobs like you, and no-one will care about your ignorance anymore. By the way congratulations for having an open mind. Usually people who begin their posts like you did just keep arguing in circles and turn into trolls or leave. It appears you are taking some feedback and reconsidering your beliefs.