Posted - 2011.09.05 14:45:00 -
[1]
TL;DR: this is about a personal issue, so is likely to bore more people to death. Everyone else, please feel free to call me a tard if you must! This probably isn't the place for this kind of depressive introspection.

OK. Heres the thing...

I work as a Software Engineer, on good money, with a team of colleagues who are great both to work with and to hang with. The office is full, but not cramped, with an undercurrent of hubbub, but no real bad noise to deal with. My commute is 15 minutes on foot, 10 minutes on the train, with the office almost directly opposite the station at the other end. Work is basically low stress (which occasional short bursts of high stress at deployment time).

For the last 6 months, increasingly, I have been suffering from headaches (which the doctor has put down to stress), and general ill-health (lots of colds, a bout of shingles). I also wake up every day with a curriously negative feeling that I cannot place, which over the course of the morning will transform into an indescribable anger at having to do whatever it is that is in front of me (usually debugging someone elses terrible code).

Thing is, I know it is a bit unreasonable for me to be angry at the work I'm paid to do; knowing this doesn't help in the slightest - in fact, it probably makes it worse, as I'm then ALSO angry at myself for being angry about nothing.

Anyway, today my anger boiled, and I just HAD to quit. I talked to my line manager, and tried to explain why I had to leave... I used various dramatic phrases like "I just can't bear it any more", and I said that "regarding our companies 'Drive To A $Billion', not only do I not care, but I despise the company so much I actually WANT it to fail, and so I probably shouldn't be working here"... but when he asked me what the actual problem was I couldn't define it. The best I could manage was to use a little phrase from the Eve forums a while back about "a thousand paper cuts".

On paper, my job is great, and when it comes down to it the only good reason I can come up with for quitting is simply "I don't want to do that any more", and that seems weak given I have no justification for it. Also, its also not true exactly, because I actually love software development, and I can't imagine doing anything else.

Basically, what I would like to know is:Am I mental? Depressed? Do I need anger management?Or, have I done the right thing... is this the opportunity to go get a job making computer games (something I've wanted to do since I was like 7 (weird, I know))?

Posted - 2011.09.05 15:03:00 -
[2]
I'm not a shrink so can't offer a diagnosis, but would strongly suggest you seek professional help. Try a psychologist or LCSW (licensed clinical social worker) first, as my experience with psychiatrists is that all they want to do is write you a prescription and see you again in 30 days.

Best of luck to you - I know it can be tough when you become your own worst enemy.__________________________________________________Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate.

Posted - 2011.09.05 15:10:00 -
[3]
Are you happier when you are not at work? my suspicion is no.I would go to the Dr. and have a full physical done inclusing blood work.Make sure you are eating right and getting the right level of vitamins

Posted - 2011.09.05 15:33:00 -
[4]Edited by: Marchocias on 05/09/2011 15:33:20I'm generally don't get angry out of work so much, but then I tend to zone out watching a lot of escapist TV, with a lot of unhealthy tv dinners.

That can't be good!

Even if I'm annoyed off at work, I maintain my sense of humour, which appears to colleagues as fairly erratic mood swings.

I think I shall have to talk to someone in depth.

Edit: thanks for the impartial support by the way!----I like the base.

Posted - 2011.09.05 15:42:00 -
[6]
The point is: you are soon going to die, like the rest of us. Maybe you live 30-60 years more, but that's nothing. Ask old people, they will confirm how fast life has rushed pass - and before you know it your life is over. And when you die, it does not matter if you are good at software engineering, if you have a car, a house a dog or 1 million $. You can't take that with you. So why waste the precious rest of your time with people that boss you around and cause you headache ? Either do a job that makes you happy or one that is short and provides just enough to survive, which means you have to cut your claims. Play the game, if you think it's worth it, or quit, if you are sick of it. It's your decision, don't let others tell you what is the right or wrong way to do with your life.

Posted - 2011.09.05 16:03:00 -
[7]
I have a feeling though that a psychologist would find it strange that you somehow feel that should not feel angry.

It is PERFECTLY natural to get angry at other people's terrible code. Even if you are being paid to do it. People have emotions, and people feel emotions based off of different stimuli. It just so happens to be that for you one of these stimuli happens to be crappy and/or obfuscated code.

The only unnatural thing that I can see is that you (at least temporarily) allowed this emotion to control your actions in a potentially very unfavorable way.

But then again, even this has a few perfectly natural explanations: you just hate computer science. Just like EVE Online isn't the game for everyone, not everyone would find a career in Computer Science fulfilling. It is also possible that you just needed to take some vacation time.

So here is your basic self-test:Do you hate being a software engineer, and all of the activities that being a software engineer entails?

If you answered yes to this question, then you aren't as crazy as you think you are. You just need to find a different career (which sadly is very difficult in this economy).

If you answered no to these questions, then maybe something is wrong, or maybe you just needed some vacation time.

In the end, it is totally and completely up to you if you want to seek help or not.----------

Originally by:Dr Fighter"how do you know when youve had a repro accident"

Posted - 2011.09.05 16:11:00 -
[8]
Dude vacation?... Like a real one. (With fun **** to do not that BS "see the sites.")

But uh MDs only know or care so much about mental health. So ask for a referral to a therapist or psychologist. Because mood swings aren't normal. Did they take blood, and run hormone levels?

Anyway if it's not physiological sounds like you're lacking something in your life... work is no longer cutting it. I guess for me when I knew I wanted to quit my job was when you wake up in the morning and the thought of work is daunting or dreary to think about. Everyone has a couple of days like that, but if it's non stop... Time to move on.

Really if you're a single guy with **** for actual obligations (Family) best time to do it.

As an FYI video game dev is actually super stressful those guys work nuts hours.

A big part of why I get so annoyed with bad code, is because its a terrible abuse of a computer. So I normally make the suggestion that it ought to be heavily refactorred, or better still done properly from the beginning. Invariably we "don't have time for that", so I'm then in a position where I have to write even more terrible code to fit round the stuff thats already there.

Not only is the software I'm writing dull as ditchwater, but it also only serves to make a bunch of rich companies richer at the expense of small independant businessmen. The thought that THAT is what I'm doing kind of gets to me, even though they do pay quite well.

At least developing games you're entertaining people, and presumably the standard of coding needs to be higher. A fair amount of my free time is spent researching computer technology and I do a lot of my own coding at home... assuming I was working on a great game, I don't think I'd have any problem in working long hours, as I'd probably enjoy it a lot more.

Regarding vacations - in the UK we get a shed load of time. I've only just stopped being on holiday, and it really hasn't relaxed me in the slightest.----I like the base.

Posted - 2011.09.05 16:40:00 -
[10]Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 05/09/2011 16:44:05Looks like a basic case of boredom and burnout and it can happen to you even if you like the work. Love of a job does not stave off the physical factors.

As for getting psychiatric help - if you feel there is a condition developing then see a psychiatrist first because they have a medical background and if your mood is being affected by health issues they are more closer to finding it than would a psychologist or therapist. The latter will only end up referring you to a psychiatrist, who will then refer you to a neurologist for good measure.

Beyond that, don't put way to much trust in the mental health field. They have a medicate first, ask questions later. That approach was only used in the past for chronic depression cases - the sort where the patient is not even capable of getting out of bed - but now they will want you popping pills right away, and these will make you into a zombie.

In the meantime, there could be, from a Jungian approach, something else going on. My theory for you is this: you have a good job and the commute is not so long that it's sucking your life and soul out. Basically, you have achieved food, shelter, and to some extent security. If you were struggling to survive or the job royally sucked, you would actually be better off, because having solved the other issues, there could now be some mode of "self actualization" (a term that is often overused by people who can't just say "I'm doing XYZ because I feel like it") is coming out, and that is grating against your actual self or what you perceive it to be. This is the basis for the old saying "no matter where you go, there you are", and it means that if you go move to another city, find another job, and all that, in due time, what has happened to you lately will happen again.

So deal with the possibility that something is "wrong" with you and I put quotes around wrong because what is wrong might really be right (how relativist! but it's your head so nobody else is going to get hurt). You might really hate your life, but have so long ago put away the reasons why, forgotten that you hate it - but still the after-effects take a toll on health. I have seen this more often with bad relationships than work relationships (you and co-workers or you and the company). No matter what you hide in yourself or what of yourself you hide from, the bitterness might come out, or you might be strong enough to suppress that too, and then the health problems come out. For all you know, you might be bored to death and just don't know it.

Many people would rather have a "fear of success" and sabotage themselves, than reach the point where they have to actually address who they are.

The only dumb thing you might have done was quit. There is no sweating or bleeding over this situation. I have seen people work for decades in jobs they absolutely despised, so bad they would have to get drunk on Friday to get over the idea of having to come back on Monday, and spend the entire weekend dreading Monday. Eventually a heart attack or cancer got to them. To be aware of such things early on, you could have addressed these issues with a paycheck coming in still, and made more calculated decisions. You probably feel more free now, but whatever you have going on inside is going to be left unattended while you have to struggle again - and if you gain success once more, will you remember the past enough not to repeat it?

I see in your later posts that you are addressing some of the things wrong with the work you do. I know what that's like personally. Sometimes I think I deserve hell for the "progress" I made for others. You are getting to the bottom of it.

Originally by:MarchociasTL;DR: this is about a personal issue, so is likely to bore more people to death. Everyone else, please feel free to call me a tard if you must! This probably isn't the place for this kind of depressive introspection.

OK. Heres the thing...

I work as a Software Engineer, on good money, with a team of colleagues who are great both to work with and to hang with. The office is full, but not cramped, with an undercurrent of hubbub, but no real bad noise to deal with. My commute is 15 minutes on foot, 10 minutes on the train, with the office almost directly opposite the station at the other end. Work is basically low stress (which occasional short bursts of high stress at deployment time).

For the last 6 months, increasingly, I have been suffering from headaches (which the doctor has put down to stress), and general ill-health (lots of colds, a bout of shingles). I also wake up every day with a curriously negative feeling that I cannot place, which over the course of the morning will transform into an indescribable anger at having to do whatever it is that is in front of me (usually debugging someone elses terrible code).

Thing is, I know it is a bit unreasonable for me to be angry at the work I'm paid to do; knowing this doesn't help in the slightest - in fact, it probably makes it worse, as I'm then ALSO angry at myself for being angry about nothing.

Anyway, today my anger boiled, and I just HAD to quit. I talked to my line manager, and tried to explain why I had to leave... I used various dramatic phrases like "I just can't bear it any more", and I said that "regarding our companies 'Drive To A $Billion', not only do I not care, but I despise the company so much I actually WANT it to fail, and so I probably shouldn't be working here"... but when he asked me what the actual problem was I couldn't define it. The best I could manage was to use a little phrase from the Eve forums a while back about "a thousand paper cuts".

On paper, my job is great, and when it comes down to it the only good reason I can come up with for quitting is simply "I don't want to do that any more", and that seems weak given I have no justification for it. Also, its also not true exactly, because I actually love software development, and I can't imagine doing anything else.

Basically, what I would like to know is:Am I mental? Depressed? Do I need anger management?Or, have I done the right thing... is this the opportunity to go get a job making computer games (something I've wanted to do since I was like 7 (weird, I know))?

Also - why am I asking YOU this? Whats wrong with me?

- Tom

Is this just work based anger ?

To cut a long story short, I had a problem over the last 5 years that manifested with exhaustion and anger. It turned out that I had a golf ball sized tumour that was hormonal and functioning. The anger was just a feeling that I couldn't shake and it got out of control more than once.

If your issue is purely with with work then I'm guessing it's unlikely to be medical but don't discount it. Keep pushing your GP. Especially if the headaches remain.

Posted - 2011.09.05 17:42:00 -
[13]
Well, I've been known to be quick to anger in the past, but I'm also generally known as being chirpy most of the time. The anger is almost always at work, although if I read the news (and I'm a bit of a news junkie) it can also set me off in a different way (that article about the dude in Illinois facing 75 years is the kind of thing that really gets to me).

I really hope its not a brain tumour (I saw a documentary about them as a child, and it gave me nightmares, and still the thought gives me shivers). I have considered I might have a thyroid problem (runs in the family to some extent, and can apparently cause mental issues, including difficulty concentrating).

Hmm... I think the best thing I can do is ride out my notice period, then take a bit of a break. I think I'll chat to friends and relatives, and in the meantime cut out the bad food and take up cycling again, and see how I get on!

Thanks for the great advice guys - just sitting and typing here, and reading responses, feels theraputic.----I like the base.

Posted - 2011.09.05 18:14:00 -
[14]
Some people are not suitable for work, in fact, no one on the planet was supposed to work in the first place.

I guess what they call 'unable to handle reality' is probably more like 'cannot conform easily to the ridiculousness of working your entire life and then dying'.

Might this be what your feel? That your life actually has no real meaning to it?

Most people I'm sure can handle this fact with ease, because they become conditioned over the course of many years to be able to deal with reality in its current form which is birth->school->work->death

Let me ask you a question though...if you could fast forward your working day, and still get paid, but have no recollection of being there, would you take that if it was offered to you?

If the answer is yes, then I'm afraid to tell you that you have just wiped out nearly 128 months off your life. The only life you will ever have.

If the answer is no, then make some changes, now.

In answer to your question; I think, like Neo, you are starting to wake up.

Originally by:AlleyKatSome people are not suitable for work, in fact, no one on the planet was supposed to work in the first place.

I guess what they call 'unable to handle reality' is probably more like 'cannot conform easily to the ridiculousness of working your entire life and then dying'.

Might this be what your feel? That your life actually has no real meaning to it?

Most people I'm sure can handle this fact with ease, because they become conditioned over the course of many years to be able to deal with reality in its current form which is birth->school->work->death

Let me ask you a question though...if you could fast forward your working day, and still get paid, but have no recollection of being there, would you take that if it was offered to you?

If the answer is yes, then I'm afraid to tell you that you have just wiped out nearly 128 months off your life. The only life you will ever have.

If the answer is no, then make some changes, now.

In answer to your question; I think, like Neo, you are starting to wake up.

Blue pill or Red?

I wated to say this as well.

A sane person in an insane world.

Wether we like it or not, 99% of us are just wage salves, and being a slave is no fun.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted - 2011.09.05 20:09:00 -
[18]
People in our society love to blame their actions and emotional states on the chemicals in your body. When you get right down to it, it's all a big cop out. If someone spits in your face, or does anything else that is certainly something reasonable to be angry about, it's still a chemical change that makes you angry at them. It's part of how your body works. Blaming the chemicals in your brain for your emotions is like blaming the fuel in your car for making your car run a red light. The car was functioning correctly; it was your foot on the gas pedal that made the car run the red light.

What I'm trying to say is, just because you can explain the mechanism by which an emotional state occurs does not mean that it's unnatural or bad to feel that emotion. It sounds like you were sick of your job. If you're sick of your job, it's entirely reasonable to quit. The fact that you're in enough control of your life to quit a job that's making you unhappy is a good sign.

At this point, I would recommend finding a job that you do enjoy. Take the time to look for a job with a video game company. After spending a few years in your new job, you'll look back at the job you just quit and be glad you did so.

Be careful what psychiatrists and the rest have to say. Modern society has an unhealthy obsession with mood altering drugs. The sun comes up, they drink coffee because they're supposed to feel awake. Their boss ****es them off? They take pill to make themselves feel more relaxed. Now they feel depressed because they know they're letting their boss walk all over them, so they take an anti-depressant. When the sun goes down, it's time to sleep so they take a sleep aid to make that happen, too.

Let your body do its job. Unless you start thinking that the government is after you for your psychic powers or you start screaming at gas station attendants for no reason, I think your brain is working as intended.

Posted - 2011.09.05 20:41:00 -
[19]
I have a similar story to tell; I used to be at a dead enjob, not as good as yours though money wise, but it paid excellent 19.50 a hour as a cnc machine operator, for 10 years I dreaded getting up and going to work at a place that I hated, but loved the people that worked there. One day the owner of the company made a meeting and told us he was retiring and that the duche son of his was going to take over, right after the meeting I picked up my tools punched out and left. On the way home my cellphone ringed like crazy with calls from my supervisor and the plant manager I never answered the phone calls until I got home my wife was like your boss just called, what happened? I told her well let me call the owner andlisten so you can find out too. I called the owner and he asked me why I left like that and I told him, the only reason I worked on your company its because of the people I worked with including you, you are a good person, but your son on the on the othe hand is not. I quit I have no motive to stay, he said well you will not be re-hired ever because you walked out, and I responded I dont intend too.

I found a job that paid 6 dollars less a hour and although it was hard to adjust I am happy at work.

Originally by:AlleyKatSome people are not suitable for work, in fact, no one on the planet was supposed to work in the first place.

It's a subject anthropologists have studied.

And it's not that people aren't supposed to work at all, just that what people are expected to do in this day and age is very extreme compared to what we've evolved to do. In earlier times humans would spend the vast majority of their day socializing, and that's why our brains are so hardwired for it, even needing it to a certain extent, and the only 'work' our distant ancestors would do would be around 4 hours of hunting or gathering per day.

But because it's all we've personally ever known, and everyone else acts like it's natural, most people never question the conditioning. It is a sort of 'waking up' when you begin to look at things objectively.

naaah if it would have been, there would be some ranting about immigrants taking their jobs, unemployment benefits, taking their college seats and their women and how they single handedly destroyed the economy of their country despite being 10% or less of the total population.

naaah if it would have been, there would be some ranting about immigrants taking their jobs, unemployment benefits, taking their college seats and their women and how they single handedly destroyed the economy of their country despite being 10% or less of the total population.

But, but, the TV said dey dook er jerbs!

Ignore all the US corporations who get aid from the government to fire all their American workers and move their factories to a 3rd world country. That is simply good for the GDP, and the removal of US jobs has nothing to do with there being no jobs in the US. Also, ignore Canada, which has many times more immigrants, illegal, and legal, and has no unemployment crisis. The real reason is those 12 guys you saw sneaking across the US border in a van in that one video. They are to blame for everything.

Call your job up and tell them you had a bit of a meltdown. See if you can turn your resignation into calling out sick for a bit, see if you still feel the same after a week or two.. get checked out by a doctor, talk to a therapist. If you have a medical / psychological issue going on, it's your right to have some time for treatment without giving up your job right away.

Who knows what's going on.. maybe you were feeling trapped.. maybe you just needed a little time off.. probably wiser to take the time though rather than quit straight away

naaah if it would have been, there would be some ranting about immigrants taking their jobs, unemployment benefits, taking their college seats and their women and how they single handedly destroyed the economy of their country despite being 10% or less of the total population.

No. A guy who has a job and some minor health issues is doing a "oh woe is me" post on an internet space ships forum. In the scheme of things...it's a "white person problem".

naaah if it would have been, there would be some ranting about immigrants taking their jobs, unemployment benefits, taking their college seats and their women and how they single handedly destroyed the economy of their country despite being 10% or less of the total population.

No. A guy who has a job and some minor health issues is doing a "oh woe is me" post on an internet space ships forum. In the scheme of things...it's a "white person problem".

Sounds like someone has a chip on his shoulder the size of Al Sharpton.__________________________________________________Name a shrub after me; something prickly and hard to eradicate.

Originally by:Bane NecranAre you saying black people don't have jobs, or they do any work without complaining?

To put it another way..

There's a depression in the US, not enough jobs to account for population anymore.. Europe is on the verge of dissolution. I just read today Greek bonds are now trading at 50%, 80% yields. Meanwhile Germany is supposedly going to save all of Europe.

The UK is a mess.

Europe is a mess, you don't know it yet but it's going to get worse..

So in view of all that, it's maybe not a good idea to casually quit a job. There are problems, and there are problems. Being angry at "lousy coding" and hating your "good job" for no identifiable reason is one of those problems a lot of people would love to have.

(it's all relative though so I don't mean to knock the OP.. but think about it.. tough times ahead for the world)

naaah if it would have been, there would be some ranting about immigrants taking their jobs, unemployment benefits, taking their college seats and their women and how they single handedly destroyed the economy of their country despite being 10% or less of the total population.

No. A guy who has a job and some minor health issues is doing a "oh woe is me" post on an internet space ships forum. In the scheme of things...it's a "white person problem".

Actually these problems come from highly educated and highly stressed work forces. In the US those at the top have a high occurrence of these mental problems, in-fact of the top executives in fortune 500 companies, a majority have psychological issues stemming from abuse or neglect in their childhood. And with the advent of super high productivity and zero downtime environments, even the average worker is going a little nuts with all the pressure to be 100% all the time. (The US still is one of the most work-a-holic nations to this day. According to the ILO, tAmericans work 137 more hours per year than Japanese workers, 260 more hours per year than British workers, and 499 more hours per year than French workers.v)

In Japan they have a similar problem, people are put under such high pressure that they are choosing not to have kids. Their reasoning is that their kids would have to go through what they did, the parents do not want to see that so they just get married and have no kids. These are known as DINKS or Double Income No Kids Syndrome.

Korea has a similar problem, men are culturally expected to work. And when I say work I means work consumes their every waking hour. This has shown up as people just going nuts, or productivity going down because of burnout. To remedy this problem they have implemented vacations and weekends. Unfortunately they don't know what to do when not working and the wives don't know what to do when they are home.-------------

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