Re: [Cython] Wacky idea: proper macros

Stefan Behnel <stefan_ml@...> wrote:
>Wes McKinney, 29.04.2012 03:14:
>> On Sat, Apr 28, 2012 at 5:25 PM, mark florisson wrote:
>>> On 28 April 2012 22:04, Nathaniel Smith wrote:
>>>> Was chatting with Wes today about the usual problem many of us have
>>>> encountered with needing to use some sort of templating system to
>>>> generate code handling multiple types, operations, etc., and a
>wacky
>>>> idea occurred to me. So I thought I'd through it out here.
>>>>
>>>> What if we added a simple macro facility to Cython, that worked at
>the
>>>> AST level? (I.e. I'm talking lisp-style macros, *not* C-style
>macros.)
>>>> Basically some way to write arbitrary Python code into a .pyx file
>>>> that gets executed at compile time and can transform the AST, plus
>>>> some nice convenience APIs for simple transformations.
>>>>
>>>> E.g., if we steal the illegal token sequence <at> <at> as our marker, we
>>>> could have something like:
>>>>
>>>> <at> <at> # alone on a line, starts a block of Python code
>>>> from Cython.MacroUtil import replace_ctype
>>>> def expand_types(placeholder, typelist):
>>>> def my_decorator(function_name, ast):
>>>> functions = {}
>>>> for typename in typelist:
>>>> new_name = "%s_%s" % (function_name, typename)
>>>> functions[name] = replace_ctype(ast, placeholder, typename)
>>>> return functions
>>>> return function_decorator
>>>> <at> <at> # this token sequence cannot occur in Python, so it's a safe
>end-marker
>>>>
>>>> # Compile-time function decorator
>>>> # Results in two cdef functions named sum_double and sum_int
>>>> <at> <at> expand_types("T", ["double", "int"])
>>>> cdef T sum(np.ndarray[T] arr):
>>>> cdef T start = 0;
>>>> for i in range(arr.size):
>>>> start += arr[i]
>>>> return start
>>>>
>>>> I don't know if this is a good idea, but it seems like it'd be very
>>>> easy to do on the Cython side, fairly clean, and be dramatically
>less
>>>> horrible than all the ad-hoc templating stuff people do now.
>>>> Presumably there'd be strict limits on how much backwards
>>>> compatibility we'd be willing to guarantee for code that went
>poking
>>>> around in the AST by hand, but a small handful of functions like my
>>>> notional "replace_ctype" would go a long way, and wouldn't impose
>much
>>>> of a compatibility burden.
>>>
>>> Have you looked at
>http://wiki.cython.org/enhancements/metaprogramming ?
>>>
>>> In general I would like better meta-programming support, maybe even
>>> allow defining new operators (although I'm not sure any of it is
>very
>>> pythonic), but for templates I think fused types should be used, or
>>> improved when they fall short. Maybe a plugin system could also help
>>> people.
>>
>> I referenced this problem recently in a blog post
>> (http://wesmckinney.com/blog/?p=467). My main interest these days is
>> in expressing data algorithms. I've unfortunately found myself
>working
>> around performance problems with fundamental array operations in
>NumPy
>> so a lot of the Cython work I've done has been in and around this. In
>> lieu of some kind of macro system it seems inevitable that I'm going
>> to need to create some kind of mini array language or otherwise code
>> generation framework (targeting C, Cython, or Fortran). I worry that
>> this is going to end with me creating "yet another APL [or Haskell]
>> implementation" but I really need something that runs inside
>CPython.
>
>Generally speaking, it's always better to collect and describe use
>cases
>first before adding a language feature, especially one that is as
>complex
>and far reaching as this.
>
>It might well be that fused types can (be made to) work for them, and
>it
>might be that a (non AST based) preprocessor step would work. Keeping
>metaprogramming facilities out of the compiler makes it both more
>generally
>versatile (and easier to replace or disable) and keeps both sides
>simpler.
>
>
>> And why not? Most of these algorithms could be expressed at a very
>> high level and lead to pretty clean generated C with many of the
>> special cases (contiguous memory, or low dimensions in the case of
>> n-dimensional algorithms) checked and handled in simplified loops.
>
>That sounds like what you want is a preprocessor that spells out NumPy
>array configuration options into separate code paths. However, I'm not
>sure
>a generic approach would work well (enough?) here. And it also doesn't
>sound like this needs to be done inside of the compiler. It should be
>possible to build that on top of fused types as a separate
>preprocessor.
Well, *of**course* it is possible to do it using a preprocessor.
The question is whether it would be a nicer experience if Cython had macros, and whether the feature would
fit well with Cython. I know I would use Cython more if it had metaprogramming, but you can't cater to everyone.
Please, everybody, look at the metaprogramming in Julia for a well done example before we discuss this
further (julialang.org)... When done at that level, you don't need to worry about AST APIs either.
Wes: for the things you talk about I simply use jinja2 or Tempita to generate C code. If you need to stay closer
to NumPy and Python though, I guess you'd generate Cython code. But I guess this is what you do already and
you want something nicer?
Would somebody be likely to work on this, or is it just a feature request? (I wish I could work on it, but I just
can't....I am +1 on macros done right, but -1 on them done badly)
Dag
>
>Stefan
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