i love my cfl's, buying them exclusively. I don't pay an electricity bill so it's not money savings, but actually using less energy that drives me. the $6 price and light output is not even a consideration, as they both are more than acceptable imho.

yeah, and cfl's can last up to 15-20x longer. are you saying it takes 15x the energy to make a cfl as an incandescent? because if not than your point is conveniently overlooking that fact.
I am willing to bet it does not take 15x the energy or resources, and therefore IS more energy efficient.

this is just another thing for people that like to complain to complain about. like having a problem with those that care about global "temperature change" or pollution, there is always someone who thinks it costs too much money to be responsible, and so will complain about it every step of the way. the real problem for them is they are being told what is the better option. that's what they don't like. well neither do i - but i can separate that fact from reality, and still make the proper choice on my own accord.

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Half the problem is that we are NO LONGER ALLOWED to make a proper choice on our own accord!!!
We have screwball EPA nuts and extremists making the choices FOR us now.
I see you live in the Adirondacks, right near me.
Well, you must enjoy the outdoor life as I do, hunting and fishing, etc..
How would you like to be FORCED into NOT being able to kill your own meal?
That's coming sooner than you think.
Pretty soon these goofy extremists will have the earth back to the way it was in the beginning. The only thing living on this planet will be some slime snail that escaped their wrath.
In the mean time before that happens...leave me alone with my light bulbs and my LEAD fishing Sinkers.
That's right...LEAD!!!

i don't fight the things i agree with. though i don't necessarily agree with the tactic - i also know that none of your complaining will stop it from happening, and you just look angry and crazy. even if i completely agree with you, i wouldn't say so in public for fear of being marginalized and losing any confidence i may have gained.

not that standing up against things that are wrong is bad, in any way - i just think lightbulbs are a pretty silly thing to get red over. if you get that heated over bulbs, how do you scale to things that actually matter?

Don't get me wrong - i hate the state of our world(read: money + government), and even worse i see little hope for it improving. but with that in mind i'd still like to have the least stressful, most joyful life i can - and that is a choice you make not to get upset and hung up on little things.

i don't fight the things i agree with. though i don't necessarily agree with the tactic - i also know that none of your complaining will stop it from happening, and you just look angry and crazy. even if i completely agree with you, i wouldn't say so in public for fear of being marginalized and losing any confidence i may have gained.

not that standing up against things that are wrong is bad, in any way - i just think lightbulbs are a pretty silly thing to get red over. if you get that heated over bulbs, how do you scale to things that actually matter?

Don't get me wrong - i hate the state of our world(read: money + government), and even worse i see little hope for it improving. but with that in mind i'd still like to have the least stressful, most joyful life i can - and that is a choice you make not to get upset and hung up on little things.

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Well, I didn't mean to sound so "heated" in my first post. I wasn't heated at all actually.
It may have come across that way and if it did, sorry.
But I do take personal freedoms of this great country to heart.
And little things add up quickly to big things.
And I do cherish the freedom of choice we enjoy in America. Or is it...once enjoyed?
Ok, 'nuff said. Have a great day. I'm going outside to walk my dogs and take in some nature.

that's the point imo. it's not like they arbitrarily said no more incandescent bulbs. So what about maximum emissions from a vehicle? a power plant? are those ok to regulate, just not light bulbs?

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In a word, no. USA automakers are having to invest millions if not billions into meeting new CARB/EPA emssion standards and that plays a large role in why two of them had to file for bankruptcy. They're having to spend significant amounts of money on technology most people aren't willing to pay for.

I subscribe to TruckTrend which is based out of California. Almost every issue, they write about the latest stub thing CARB did that the EPA is trying to adapt for other 49 States. It is disgusting what is happening to the auto industry and that vileness is spreading to more and more areas of daily life. The EPA is running out of control and needs to be disallowed from creating any new regulations without Congressional approval. If they insist on not doing so, the EPA must die and be replace by a House and Senate committee dedicated to environmental concerns. Every change proposed MUST go through standard legislative process.

i don't fight the things i agree with. though i don't necessarily agree with the tactic - i also know that none of your complaining will stop it from happening, and you just look angry and crazy. even if i completely agree with you, i wouldn't say so in public for fear of being marginalized and losing any confidence i may have gained.

not that standing up against things that are wrong is bad, in any way - i just think lightbulbs are a pretty silly thing to get red over. if you get that heated over bulbs, how do you scale to things that actually matter?

Don't get me wrong - i hate the state of our world(read: money + government), and even worse i see little hope for it improving. but with that in mind i'd still like to have the least stressful, most joyful life i can - and that is a choice you make not to get upset and hung up on little things.

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All I read there was "bend over and take it." No spank you! Hostile takeovers of freedoms always start with little things like this and they turn into bigger and bigger things until it is too late to do anything about it.

In a word, no. USA automakers are having to invest millions if not billions into meeting new CARB/EPA emssion standards and that plays a large role in why two of them had to file for bankruptcy. They're having to spend significant amounts of money on technology most people aren't willing to pay for.

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they are not having to spend nearly enough. corporate profits are not more important than health and environment, and that mentality is exactly what is wrong. consumers buy what is available to them, we don't actually have any control. they are not just going to STOP making cars and products. they will always make more money doing that than anything else, so even if they are making less than they are now it's still their best option, and what they'll do.

Every change proposed MUST go through standard legislative process.

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the earth would be eaten by the sun before anything was accomplished. there are too many who care about profit and could care less about the environment. I would rather piss you all off and be confident that we are going to have a comfortable planet to live on, rather than meet in the middle and have conservatives (lol, conserve WHAT exactly? your money and power?) derail any possible improvement we may have.

All I read there was "bend over and take it." No spank you! Hostile takeovers of freedoms always start with little things like this and they turn into bigger and bigger things until it is too late to do anything about it.

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not at all. again, i agree with this one. the ones i don't agree with, i don't accept. that simple. i didn't say listen or obey, i just said complaining doesn't accomplish anything. they will always find a way to win if they know you are fighting, so keep your head down and keep going quietly. that's my opinion at least. if you're fighting them head on, it's already too late to do anything about it.

ah hah, ok. i guess that was obvious. that does make me ignorant, doesn't it?
from my point of view : i don't really care about the environment, so much as i care about being able to live in it.

i think the only part i disagree with, is you guys don't see any of us doing those things, because you don't see us. yes those people exist, in droves - but to assume I'M one of them simply because i'd rather do some small things if it could maybe make a difference, isn't entirely fair imo. yeah it was a joke, but i can't help assume every time someone says "save the environment" , steevo just thinks they are retarded.

the rest of us are watching them smoke while pregnant, deal with dangerous chemicals each day, and generally contradict themselves.

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So... what you're saying here is that there is no middle ground. You either completely demolish the environment, or completely save the environment?

So if you're trying to be a better person to the environment and still have some tendencies that are destructive than you're a hypocrite?

That doesn't quite seem fair does it. By those same metrics you're a failure at anything you have ever tried to do and you're a hypocrite for trying to improve, unless of course you are perfect at whatever you're trying to improve on, in which case excellent work.

So... what you're saying here is that there is no middle ground. You either completely demolish the environment, or completely save the environment?

So if you're trying to be a better person to the environment and still have some tendencies that are destructive than you're a hypocrite?

That doesn't quite seem fair does it. By those same metrics you're a failure at anything you have ever tried to do and you're a hypocrite for trying to improve, unless of course you are perfect at whatever you're trying to improve on, in which case excellent work.

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i'm happily in the middle ground. i think both extremes are idiots. the one thing i can do is minimise my electricity costs, so i do. if i can take down the average even slightly (and keep doing so as the average lowers), i've done my part.

i'm happily in the middle ground. i think both extremes are idiots. the one thing i can do is minimise my electricity costs, so i do. if i can take down the average even slightly (and keep doing so as the average lowers), i've done my part.

i think my problem is i take a conversation seriously, even if it's just a stupid message board post. i can't help it. even if it's a subject i care nothing about, if i am trying to respond i will give it the same thought i'd give a cancer cure.
i can't respond without having(or believing i have) thought something through. i go over it and over it until i am satisfied.
my point is, any time i respond it will be with enthusiasm, otherwise i just won't . but just because my post seems enthusiastic or thought out doesn't mean it's actually a large part of my life or that i even think about it afterward.

that often puts me in the position where i'm carrying on a topic no one cares about

Chysler and GM would have had the government not bailed them out. And oh, right, they were leeching billions of dollars every year. Every dollar wasted on meeting EPA/CARB requirements is another dollar not spent on fuel economy, research on light weight materials, and meeting customer requirements (like towing, carrying, and storage capacity).

the earth would be eaten by the sun before anything was accomplished. there are too many who care about profit and could care less about the environment. I would rather piss you all off and be confident that we are going to have a comfortable planet to live on, rather than meet in the middle and have conservatives (lol, conserve WHAT exactly? your money and power?) derail any possible improvement we may have.

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Where's the proof that ridiculous legilsation like this accomplished anything except eliminate consumer choice? Has power consumption declined? No. Has CO2 levels stopped increasing? No. Has the arctic stopped melting? No. This is all about special interests (environmental groups) and little else.

Why does Obama think every black teenager looks like him? Does he think they all look alike?

Next thing you know, the environmentalists will regulate your computer electricity usage.
There goes your overclocking, there goes your SLI and Crossfire system.
I can see it now...WHAT???? I can't increase my memory voltage even a little bit? Not even a tenth of a volt?
NO, NO you can't. That will screw up the environment. It will deplete the ozone levels and the polar bears will all die.
No way...not MY computer@^%$@#^#...ah damn, I didn't think things could get that far out of hand.

because the cumulative effect of millions of people using incandescent bulbs is MUCH greater than the thousands overclocking their computers.

ford, if i can ask: what's your solution then? let everyone do whatever they want, even if it means the destruction of the planet? trust people to make the right decision (lol).
for all your angry rhetoric, you haven't offered a single solution. so i'm sorry - but if the choice is between you angry people who just want do what pleases you at the cost of the planet - or those crazy-ass hippies that want to save every bug , i'm going with what I see as the lesser of two evils. I don't completely agree with either of you, but you are too angry and stubborn for me to ever align myself with. It's hard because I do agree with a lot of what you say, it just seems you are being unreasonable, unwilling to budge. that's my opinion of course.

I fully recognize the corruption of power. I am not blind to the disgusting state of our country, and world - but the honest truth is most people are stupid and careless, and wouldn't change their behavior for anything. people smoke until they die of lung cancer, they eat disgusting fatty foods that make them 5x the weight of a normal human being - and then raise their children in that atmosphere to continue their patterns. they care nothing about the future, they don't even care about the present. and you would trust THOSE people to decide what's good for our environment? for YOUR children? i'm sorry, but that is insanity. they have a right to freedom, but i have a right to not be poisoned by their actions. those decisions harm other people, and that's exactly when an individual's freedoms should be limited.

because the cumulative effect of millions of people using incandescent bulbs is MUCH greater than the thousands overclocking their computers.

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What about the cumulative effect of millions of people disposing of the broken mercury containing CFLs?
Do you really believe people are going to "dispose of them properly" as required?
Especially all those fat, cigarette smoking people you mentioned?

You might take a minute out and read the above link I posted.
Even left leaning liberals are invited to go there and learn a few things.

so because ignorant people will make it difficult, no one should bother to try? i'm glad we're not depending on you to accomplish anything.
that's life - ignorant people do things wrong, and make things difficult. that's no reason not to strive for a better way.

knew the labels had to come out sooner or later.

CFLs contain a very small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing – an average of 4 milligrams (mg). By
comparison, older thermometers contain about 500 milligrams of mercury – an amount equal to the mercury in
125 CFLs. Mercury is an essential part of CFLs; it allows the bulb to be an efficient light source. No mercury is
released when the bulbs are intact (not broken) or in use.

Electricity use is the main source of mercury emissions in the U.S. CFLs use less electricity than incandescent
lights, meaning CFLs reduce the amount of mercury into the environment. As shown in the table below, a 13-watt,
8,000-rated-hour-life CFL (60-watt equivalent; a common light bulb type) will save 376 kWh over its lifetime, thus avoiding 4.3 mg of mercury. If the bulb goes to a landfill, overall emissions savings would drop a little, to 3.9 mg.
EPA recommends that CFLs are recycled where possible, to maximize mercury savings.

there is more mercury in a can of tuna than a cfl bulb. and as long as you are not an idiot breaking them all over the place, there is no real danger. you should minimize exposure but it's not going to kill you when it breaks.
you are really just pretending that there is more mercury in it than there is, and that it's so hard to properly dispose of. both points are false.

that link is pure shock trash. it's actually a great point at how people are so easily scared into making irrational decisions. because fox and "right turn forever" tell you cfls are bad, that means they are? if it wasn't on your talk radio and fox news, you wouldn't even know it happened i bet. or at the very least, would care little enough to do anything. be honest - did beck limbaugh hannity etc let you know the danger, or did you decide on your own?