-You sound like a real Field Trialer Jon, in that vein of thinking, we must all be rubbing off on ya.

Yep, when you run against a standard things can get fairly blasse',

Trialing: running against a quality line up of dogs, head to head, eyeball to eyeball (no blinkin'), nose to nose in a fierce struggle for run/find perfection and a WIN, it brings out the best of the best, gets the blood pumpin',Now you're thinking like a FT guy...Hey there's a Walkin' horse for sale on the list, get your checkbook out, maybe we'll see you at the AMES Plantation..!? I'll Scout faya...I speak Wooley.

Don't hold your breath, Steve. Besides for the price of that horse, I can hunt for 2 weeks in ND!!!...THAT DECISION IS A NO BRAINER!!

DD's aren't trial dogs..."Mans gotta know his limitations"...doesn't mean they can't show a little style... and manners on game is everything for me. Besides, I can shave the beard but I haven't figured out how to get the rest of the tail back on

You know, the AKC puts the burden of setting the quality of Judges on the CLUBs. They specifically state to perspective event secretarys and chairman, to find able, well rounded, qualified individuals to Judge their events, it's the Clubs decision.

I wonder if you go through the list of clubs who is at the top? Is it conformation, agility enthusiats or is it those that are hunting enthusiasts? I t would be interesting to see as I would bet depending on whom is the secretary and chairperson are might reflect in the type of judges a test secures?

Your statement of would you want to hunt behind this dog while is a vaild one is not really one that you can apply . The real world may dictate that when hunting wild game you just might shoot a pheasant that gets out and wild flushes or you may shoot a timberdoodle or grouse your dog pointed and then went in on. You may want your dog to have a delayed chase on a bird. You may want your dog to break at the shot to recover game. Would I want to hunt behind a dog like this that produces birds you bet I would. My point is that the AKC tests while they do serve a purpose is not a place to ask would you want to hunt behind a this dog as the operative word is "hunt", which is the furthest thing that an AKC test is.

you may shoot a timberdoodle or grouse your dog pointed and then went in on. You may want your dog to have a delayed chase on a bird. You may want your dog to break at the shot to recover game. Would I want to hunt behind a dog like this that produces birds you bet I would.

NO...not me...YOU certainly may. If this is your template just don't TEST. You won't PASS.

Maybe I would NOT like to spend a lazy afternoon shooting behind such dogs, my choice.

NO...not me...YOU certainly may. If this is your template just don't TEST. You won't PASS

My template is to hunt more often than test, a lot more. With hunting wild birds they do not stay where they are placed. They are not placed in wide open fields where you can see them fall. They do the unexpected they may run, they may flush wild. Heck you may go an entire day without seeing a single bird. The cover may be so think you can not see 5 feet in front of you. Things do not always work out the way you read about them in the books.

Don't fret it,leave the testing and trialing to us fellas who enjoy the events,it fills the large gaps between our short HUNTING seasons, (as I've explained before)Preaching to the choir about wild birds, HOWEVER, manners are MANNERS, a well trained Pointing Dog is AS important as good grounds, good birds and good shooting in my world.

As I just sent off an e-mail to my hunting buddies in prep for our upcoming group hunt......

When we hunt wild birds, my A-TEAMers and mysefffff, our dogs are working on autopilot, MANNERFUL, polite, respectful of us and the chase, we just take in the views and try to shoot straight...A well handled, pointed, shot wild bird, bagged, even TASTEs better, methinks.

Have a bran muffin...you're far too uptight about your loose dogs. If your dogs bump break chase knock or whatever, if it suits you...that's all that matters. Why do you need to compare and contrast, not needed, go into your bird woods this year, have fun, shoot straight, get the dogs off the couch.

What I/we/my A-TEAM and my circle hold as a standard doesn't interfere with your day in the woods, I assure you.

What's an A-TEAM? I honestly think that in this country MILITARY SERVICE should be mandatory, if for nothing else but to get young folks heads together. (IMHO)

Wild birds vs planted? A staunch point izzz a staunch point my brother, in the "planted" birdfield or deep in the alder forest. Little difference with my bunch.

Testing-all types, if it doesn't suit you FINE, don't run. You may never see me working a Border Collie thru a herding course, but it doesn't mean I feel the need to knock em.(actually, I think the herding group testing is awesome stuff, just not my forte')

Have a bran muffin...you're far too uptight about your loose dogs. If your dogs bump break chase knock or whatever, if it suits you...that's all that matters. Why do you need to compare and contrast, not needed, go into your bird woods this year, have fun, shoot straight, get the dogs off the couch.

What I/we/my A-TEAM and my circle hold as a standard doesn't interfere with your day in the woods, I assure you.

What's an A-TEAM? I honestly think that in this country MILITARY SERVICE should be mandatory, if for nothing else but to get young folks heads together. (IMHO)

Wild birds vs planted? A staunch point izzz a staunch point my brother, in the "planted" birdfield or deep in the alder forest. Little difference with my bunch.

Testing-all types, if it doesn't suit you FINE, don't run. You may never see me working a Border Collie thru a herding course, but it doesn't mean I feel the need to knock em.(actually, I think the herding group testing is awesome stuff, just not my forte')

Gene Nelson once told me that the way he looks at it, every dogs starts the brace with straight tens. Throughout the course is when the deductions are noted, and after the run is completed he gives an honest evaluation in accordance with the standard.

TENS? PERFECT? Well, we use the sorta same proceedure, 'cept we start with- Every dog gets straight SEVENs to start, a passing score. Then as we go 'round we either add to or take away a point or so as we run through the test, provided all the req'ts are being met, and based on the general standards.

PASS or FAIL, you'll know.....the scores are just for critique at times.

Serious breeders often shoot for the highest levels of testing so if water, tracking (blood would be nice), and blind retrieves were added maybe it would promote more versatility among some of the AKC breeds.