Maybe Laura should be the one ignoring things before getting her knickers in a tizzy.

Maybe because they get done to death on a daily basis and do nothing to promote the community? But I guess if it makes you fell better. How tall are you by the way?

So what you are saying is you are not allowed to bring facts and rationale to someones attention.

Besides that. you and Laura have derailed the thread more than anyone

What I'm saying is, why argue the same points over and over again, why bring the same facts and rationale to a group of people who are not prepared to listen to your version of the 'truth', just as you are not prepared to listen to their version of the 'truth'. It's a discussion that has been done to death with, from what I can see, not one single person from either side giving an inch. Seems to me to be an exercise in futility and stupidity.

What I'm saying is, why argue the same points over and over again, why bring the same facts and rationale to a group of people who are not prepared to listen to your version of the 'truth', just as you are not prepared to listen to their version of the 'truth'. It's a discussion that has been done to death with, from what I can see, not one single person from either side giving an inch. Seems to me to be an exercise in futility and stupidity.

all I pointed out was that 2012 wasn't a fair reflection for a number of reasons. Lewis got screwed by the reliability and Button got screwed because they didn't understand the tyres.

Is there anything wrong with that ?

Only for some reason on here it's only okay to say one lost points due to the team. But sure lets ignore reality and continue to live life in a biased way ignoring what doesn't fit some "Fans"

What I'm saying is, why argue the same points over and over again, why bring the same facts and rationale to a group of people who are not prepared to listen to your version of the 'truth', just as you are not prepared to listen to their version of the 'truth'. It's a discussion that has been done to death with, from what I can see, not one single person from either side giving an inch. Seems to me to be an exercise in futility and stupidity.

all I pointed out was that 2012 wasn't a fair reflection for a number of reasons. Lewis got screwed by the reliability and Button got screwed because they didn't understand the tyres.

Is there anything wrong with that ?

Only for some reason on here it's only okay to say one lost points due to the team. But sure lets ignore reality and continue to live life in a biased way ignoring what doesn't fit some "Fans"

Once again, what exactly is the point of pointing out anything to a group of people who are in no way interested in listening to you. You might as well save your keyboard turn round and repeatedly bash your head against a brick wall. All it does is turn the forum into the maelstrom of ducks it usually is. I haven't posted in months. I come back and the same people are arguing the exact same fairy cakes. It's pure comedy gold. You just make your self look like a numpty even though I have repeatedly said I think you are one of the people round here you can actually have a decent discussion with.

Once again, what exactly is the point of pointing out anything to a group of people who are in no way interested in listening to you. You might as well save your keyboard turn round and repeatedly bash your head against a brick wall. All it does is turn the forum into the maelstrom of ducks it usually is. I haven't posted in months. I come back and the same people are arguing the exact same fairy cakes. It's pure comedy gold. You just make your self look like a numpty even though I have repeatedly said I think you are one of the people round here you can actually have a decent discussion with.

Because some folk are open to be "Enlightened" otherwise ignoring it perpetuates the myth.

If you've reported a post, don't reply to it. Don't forget that any post resulting in sanctions can see those sanctions reflected onto anyone who quoted it as well. Especially if you were the one reporting it.

This thread is about Hamilton and Rosberg. Keep bringing Button in and the thread is locked.

For the sake of anonymity I won't name you, but the member who reported other posts should perhaps check how many threads end up in Button/Hamilton arguments without your involvement. The correlation is there, and it doesn't reflect well on you.

_________________

AlienTurnedHuman wrote:

Eurytus probably thought he was God. At least until he was banned. Which means if he was God, it makes me very scared of PF1-Mod.

I feel sorry for Nico. It has always been 'what do you think of Schui.....' Now its going to be 'What do you think Lewis....'

The problem against Schumacher was he wasn't given any credit for beating him or even matching him with Schumacher being an old man, he will against Hamilton if he achieves similar

Agreed - although to be fair, Schuey was hardly showing his best was he? I am really hoping that Nico gets pushed hard by Lewis within a race or two, on the assumption that as the new boy LH takes a while to get to grips with the car (unlikely IMO, but you never know). In some ways, I don't want Lewis to take the lead immediately because I like Rosberg and don't want him to feel like a No 2 so early on! For Merc to improve and gain respect they have to have consistent closely paired finishes (1-2's but not necessarily on the top and middle steps - but in race finishes). I honestly cannot see LH as anything other than the ultimate pace 'leader' in the team, but who knows, LH's known pace may be the thing that pushes Rosberg forwards too? Even if they are reasonably friendly to start with, I can imagine Rosberg being put out by LH coming in and beating him regularly - so I do hope they meld and push the team forwards together.

On the other hand, seeing Hammy's natural speed AND the fact that Mercedes were really rough on the tires last couple of years, his sheer speed might just play a little in his disadvantage...of course, depending on what the tech team manages to pull out of the hat for this year's car.

I've not heard the interview so don't know what context to put the comment but if it was a remark aiming to show how special he is I'd just like to say can we all have a look for Lewis's lost humility? Check down the back of your sofa, behind your fridge and anywhere else you can think because he'd be a whole lot easier to like if he got some!

You haven't heard the interview ... "BUT IF IT WAS" these 2 lines plus your posting history on anything with the name Hamilton say more about your character then anyone Else's.

Please Mods can we have some warnings for folks in here, this new influx of Jenson fans plus the Hamilton fans and there constant bickering in most threads are ruining these once great forums and is a reason I hardly post anymore.

So because I haven't heard it in supposed to jump straight to it being in a positive light?!

On the other hand, seeing Hammy's natural speed AND the fact that Mercedes were really rough on the tires last couple of years, his sheer speed might just play a little in his disadvantage...of course, depending on what the tech team manages to pull out of the hat for this year's car.

I don't think Lewis speed will be any disadvantage. He can reel himself in very wellLast season he was the only driver who was able to do a 1 stopper at Barcelona, and got more km ou of eat set of tyres used than his ex- team mate who was said to be a tyre whisperer.

Good point too. But the McLaren wasn't so heavy on the tires, it was more like Button simply didn't understand them at all. Took him half of season to figure them out, I still don't understand how come did he win in Australia - and in a dominant matter too.

Whilst, Mercedes were hard on tires also in 2011, it wasn't only due to the 2012 tires they were labeled like this.

On the other hand, seeing Hammy's natural speed AND the fact that Mercedes were really rough on the tires last couple of years, his sheer speed might just play a little in his disadvantage...of course, depending on what the tech team manages to pull out of the hat for this year's car.

I don't think Lewis speed will be any disadvantage. He can reel himself in very wellLast season he was the only driver who was able to do a 1 stopper at Barcelona, and got more km ou of eat set of tyres used than his ex- team mate who was said to be a tyre whisperer.

Your point about Lewis not being at a disadvantage I agree with. Top drivers don't take long to get to grips (ha-ha PIrelli) with a new car/team/circuit. You should patent the 'tyre whisperer' description; it is really funny.

I'm sure even you are not stupid enough to realise it takes more than one person for an argument to ensue. Don't respond, no argument, simples. I double dare you.

so whats the point in having a forum?

Might as well close the doors now and all worship at the Alter of Lewdog.

Or rename the Forum

PLANET-LEWIS. And perpetuate the myth like all good religions.

Glad this bickering has been addressed by the mods. been a long weekend for me and have not had a chance to sit behind a computer until now and I come in here and see this. :facepalm:

As for that last bit, you guys need to get your heads on straight. If the discussion is about Hamilton the site is referred to as Planet Lewis, if the subject matter is Vettel it's wonder kid with the annoying finger, if it's about Alonso someone has to bring in Alonslow, if it's Michael it's old man this. cheater that, etc., etc., etc.…

Can't there ever be a civil MATURE discussion in here where people state their opinion and follow it up with a good bit as to why they feel that way without resorting to bickering or insults? Geez Louise already, we all come in here because WE ALL SHARE A COMMON PASSION which is Formula 1 and all that goes with it. Let's be thankful we've found a place where we can all come together and DISCUSS OUR MOST BELOVED SPORT with many others who share that same passion, where we can express ourselves without getting that look of boredom and disinterest and learn from one another. I for one was vacated from PF1 for a long time thanks to a former long time member (has since receive a permanent IP ban if I recall) provoking me and because I was so heated I didn't realize what he was doing and I ended up getting myself into trouble.

Getting back on subject, We will have to see what Lewis can do today and compare a bit, though I doubt either of them will have pushed the car or themselves as they are getting a feel for the car initially. I will have my fingers crossed that Mercedes joins the leading teams so we can have an epic battle for both titles this year.

_________________Second place is the first loser!

Last edited by the incubus on Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

On the other hand, seeing Hammy's natural speed AND the fact that Mercedes were really rough on the tires last couple of years, his sheer speed might just play a little in his disadvantage...of course, depending on what the tech team manages to pull out of the hat for this year's car.

I don't think Lewis speed will be any disadvantage. He can reel himself in very wellLast season he was the only driver who was able to do a 1 stopper at Barcelona, and got more km ou of eat set of tyres used than his ex- team mate who was said to be a tyre whisperer.

Your point about Lewis not being at a disadvantage I agree with. Top drivers don't take long to get to grips (ha-ha PIrelli) with a new car/team/circuit. You should patent the 'tyre whisperer' description; it is really funny.

I'm sure even you are not stupid enough to realise it takes more than one person for an argument to ensue. Don't respond, no argument, simples. I double dare you.

so whats the point in having a forum?

Might as well close the doors now and all worship at the Alter of Lewdog.

Or rename the Forum

PLANET-LEWIS. And perpetuate the myth like all good religions.

Glad this bickering has been addressed by the mods. been a long weekend for me and have not had a chance to sit behind a computer until now and I come in here and see this. :facepalm:

As for that last bit, you guys need to get your heads on straight. If the discussion is about Hamilton the site is referred to as Planet Lewis, if the subject matter is Vettel it's wonder kid with the annoying finger, if it's about Alonso someone has to bring in Alonslow, if it's Michael it's old man this. cheater that, etc., etc., etc.…

Can't there ever be a civil MATURE discussion in here where people state their opinion and follow it up with a good bit as to why they feel that way without resorting to bickering or insults? Geez Louise already, we all come in here because WE ALL SHARE A COMMON PASSION which is Formula 1 and all that goes with it. Let's be thankful we've found a place where we can all come together and DISCUSS OUR MOST BELOVED SPORT with many others who share that same passion, where we can express ourselves without getting that look of boredom and disinterest and learn from one another. I for one was vacated from PF1 for a long time thanks to a former long time member (has since receive a permanent IP ban if I recall) provoking me and because I was so heated I didn't realize what he was doing and I ended up getting myself into trouble.

Getting back on subject, We will have to see what Lewis can do today and compare a bit, though I doubt either of them will have pushed the car or themselves as they are getting a feel for the car initially. I will have my fingers crossed that Mercedes joins the leading teams so we can have an epic battle for both titles this year.

here here!

_________________"You are the universe expressing itself as a Human for a little while..."

I'm sure even you are not stupid enough to realise it takes more than one person for an argument to ensue. Don't respond, no argument, simples. I double dare you.

so whats the point in having a forum?

Might as well close the doors now and all worship at the Alter of Lewdog.

Or rename the Forum

PLANET-LEWIS. And perpetuate the myth like all good religions.

Glad this bickering has been addressed by the mods. been a long weekend for me and have not had a chance to sit behind a computer until now and I come in here and see this. :facepalm:

As for that last bit, you guys need to get your heads on straight. If the discussion is about Hamilton the site is referred to as Planet Lewis, if the subject matter is Vettel it's wonder kid with the annoying finger, if it's about Alonso someone has to bring in Alonslow, if it's Michael it's old man this. cheater that, etc., etc., etc.…

Can't there ever be a civil MATURE discussion in here where people state their opinion and follow it up with a good bit as to why they feel that way without resorting to bickering or insults? Geez Louise already, we all come in here because WE ALL SHARE A COMMON PASSION which is Formula 1 and all that goes with it. Let's be thankful we've found a place where we can all come together and DISCUSS OUR MOST BELOVED SPORT with many others who share that same passion, where we can express ourselves without getting that look of boredom and disinterest and learn from one another. I for one was vacated from PF1 for a long time thanks to a former long time member (has since receive a permanent IP ban if I recall) provoking me and because I was so heated I didn't realize what he was doing and I ended up getting myself into trouble.

Getting back on subject, We will have to see what Lewis can do today and compare a bit, though I doubt either of them will have pushed the car or themselves as they are getting a feel for the car initially. I will have my fingers crossed that Mercedes joins the leading teams so we can have an epic battle for both titles this year.

I like Johnstons posts, they are factual and usually irrefutable head shots Pzr I've noticed tends to try and muscle into threads laying the law down about who should post what and in what manner, naturally nobody takes a blind bit of notice which in itself is amusing. Both funny

_________________o·ver·rat·ed - overestimation of skills or abilities, anything that is given too much credit and hype.

Good point too. But the McLaren wasn't so heavy on the tires, it was more like Button simply didn't understand them at all. Took him half of season to figure them out, I still don't understand how come did he win in Australia - and in a dominant matter too.

Whilst, Mercedes were hard on tires also in 2011, it wasn't only due to the 2012 tires they were labeled like this.

I'm still in two minds on the Merc tyre issues. They were obviously very hard on tyres on some occasions, which usually means very bad car balance. I did wonder how much this might have been due to Schuey's lack of 'modern' set up experience, but dismissed that as unlikely since Rosberg suffered too. The point that Hamilton is/was normally hard on tyres is noted, but to be fair, he turned that around quite well! It is unfortunate that this years car is more Rosberg/Schuey influenced - but hopefully if it is fairly neutral in its basic balance, maybe Hamilton can tweak it to his liking quickly? Presumably we will know in a few days time if he is happy or not. The bottom line is that unless Rosberg is much much faster than LH, Brawn and Merc will have to help LH adapt to their car, maybe even adjusting the car if seriously required. I dunno NR's pay packet, but I'll bet it's smaller than LH's - it makes no sense to employ a top driver on top wages and run the car to the 'lesser' (not literally) drivers liking? Plus Brawn and Merc need real results, or questions will be asked......In practise, I think this will help Rosberg too - especially if he can keep on pace with Hamilton, it will certainly look good on his CV, and probs earn him some extra $$$ in wages? (and BTW, I am not saying Rosberg isn't good, just looking at it objectively, he beat Schuey fairly easily (though Schuey has had some terrible reliability) but hasn't had the chance to really show us what he can do in that dog car - I think the LH pairing will enhance his F1 street cred massively if he matches LH!)

I'm actually in the minority here...I think Rosberg will be quicker than Hamilton, and will outscore him at season's end. It's extremely hard to go into a new team/atmosphere and dominate, especially when the car is not the best. I think Hamilton has more pressure on him, and may try to over-overcompensate. Anyway, should be a great season! Can't wait.

Good point too. But the McLaren wasn't so heavy on the tires, it was more like Button simply didn't understand them at all. Took him half of season to figure them out, I still don't understand how come did he win in Australia - and in a dominant matter too.

Whilst, Mercedes were hard on tires also in 2011, it wasn't only due to the 2012 tires they were labeled like this.

I'm still in two minds on the Merc tyre issues. They were obviously very hard on tyres on some occasions, which usually means very bad car balance. I did wonder how much this might have been due to Schuey's lack of 'modern' set up experience, but dismissed that as unlikely since Rosberg suffered too. The point that Hamilton is/was normally hard on tyres is noted, but to be fair, he turned that around quite well! It is unfortunate that this years car is more Rosberg/Schuey influenced - but hopefully if it is fairly neutral in its basic balance, maybe Hamilton can tweak it to his liking quickly? Presumably we will know in a few days time if he is happy or not. The bottom line is that unless Rosberg is much much faster than LH, Brawn and Merc will have to help LH adapt to their car, maybe even adjusting the car if seriously required. I dunno NR's pay packet, but I'll bet it's smaller than LH's - it makes no sense to employ a top driver on top wages and run the car to the 'lesser' (not literally) drivers liking? Plus Brawn and Merc need real results, or questions will be asked......In practise, I think this will help Rosberg too - especially if he can keep on pace with Hamilton, it will certainly look good on his CV, and probs earn him some extra $$$ in wages? (and BTW, I am not saying Rosberg isn't good, just looking at it objectively, he beat Schuey fairly easily (though Schuey has had some terrible reliability) but hasn't had the chance to really show us what he can do in that dog car - I think the LH pairing will enhance his F1 street cred massively if he matches LH!)

The thing is last years tyres were weird. You had to be aggressive to treat them well (Force India talked about it at their launch) .. So how much was it suiting him and how much was turning it around. Who knows?

We have all new tyres this year so we might as well flip a coin to see how they will react at this stage.

Rosberg Vs Hammy. Will in my mind comedown to three things. The car and have they fixed the problems. The new tyres and who they suit and finally how Hammys head goes if any of the former are against him. He could keep the chin up and have it focussed on 2014. However there is always the chance the chin can go down where as Nico for the last three years has shown through thick and thin he gets on with it.

Hamilton was not only New to McLaren and the atmosphere, not to mention F1 as a whole and he did just fine challenging his 2-time Defending Champion Teammate in Alonso. Rosberg's greatest achievement in his entire F1 career thus far is beating the greatest ever in a sub par car and at least in the last season together, some bad luck for Michael came into play. I think Hamilton's days of trying just that bit too hard are now for the most part over and we should see him find the utmost pace of the car rather quickly and once he learns its characteristics I think he has the superior talent to outclass Rosberg. Rosberg has shown to be quick but he lacks the tenacious aggressiveness the elites tend to exude. It's something that usually comes from within and it is rarely learned, though some develop the killer instinct after a performance or string of them that raises their level of confidence just that much more and it changes something in a driver. Perhaps that moment is yet still there for Rosberg so who knows, but I fully expect Hamilton to beat Rosberg this season.

Rosberg Vs Hammy. Will in my mind comedown to three things. The car and have they fixed the problems. The new tyres and who they suit and finally how Hammys head goes if any of the former are against him. He could keep the chin up and have it focussed on 2014. However there is always the chance the chin can go down where as Nico for the last three years has shown through thick and thin he gets on with it.

It'll be fun no matter how it goes.

If by getting on with it you mean running a consistent 4th-8th, then you are dead on. I don't think Lewis will settle for that and will push the car perhaps beyond its limits if that's what it takes to uncover greater pace. I'd rather see that and have Lewis crash out or lose it as a result, than how Rosberg seems to settle for what he feels is the best result he can muster and then coast to the end. Can anyone imagine a Prost, Senna, or Mansell placing as Rosberg has the last 3 seasons and publicly saying they are proud of the results? I think they'd put the pressure on the team and then pushed the car harder than thought possible until they either crash/lose it or the car fails them.

Hamilton was not only New to McLaren and the atmosphere, not to mention F1 as a whole and he did just fine challenging his 2-time Defending Champion Teammate in Alonso. Rosberg's greatest achievement in his entire F1 career thus far is beating the greatest ever in a sub par car and at least in the last season together, some bad luck for Michael came into play. I think Hamilton's days of trying just that bit too hard are now for the most part over and we should see him find the utmost pace of the car rather quickly and once he learns its characteristics I think he has the superior talent to outclass Rosberg. Rosberg has shown to be quick but he lacks the tenacious aggressiveness the elites tend to exude. It's something that usually comes from within and it is rarely learned, though some develop the killer instinct after a performance or string of them that raises their level of confidence just that much more and it changes something in a driver. Perhaps that moment is yet still there for Rosberg so who knows, but I fully expect Hamilton to beat Rosberg this season.

Thats not exactly true though as he was in and out of Woking for years and in and out of the garage on GP weekends whilst he was in GP2.

LH was certainly not 'green' or 'wet behind the ears' in terms of his start at Macca in F1! Nevertheless, he did perform and certainly achieved more than was expected of him as a rookie!.Rosberg doesn't seem to have the same level of 'push' - if I can call it that - but like I said earlier, I think with a stronger teammate, he may find it helps him find that 'push' from within himself - and he could gain a lot from LH in the team? (certainly a darn sight more than he gained from schuey!) of course, this is all gassing cos we have nothing better to discuss until the cars take to the track in anger!

LH was certainly not 'green' or 'wet behind the ears' in terms of his start at Macca in F1! Nevertheless, he did perform and certainly achieved more than was expected of him as a rookie!.Rosberg doesn't seem to have the same level of 'push' - if I can call it that - but like I said earlier, I think with a stronger teammate, he may find it helps him find that 'push' from within himself - and he could gain a lot from LH in the team? (certainly a darn sight more than he gained from schuey!) of course, this is all gassing cos we have nothing better to discuss until the cars take to the track in anger!

He had plenty of "push". In 2011 and 2012 Schumi was up 14-9 when both cars finished. In my view it would be about square by justice (Schumi had many retirements hence low points). What he didn't have was a good car.

Hamilton was not only New to McLaren and the atmosphere, not to mention F1 as a whole and he did just fine challenging his 2-time Defending Champion Teammate in Alonso. Rosberg's greatest achievement in his entire F1 career thus far is beating the greatest ever in a sub par car and at least in the last season together, some bad luck for Michael came into play. I think Hamilton's days of trying just that bit too hard are now for the most part over and we should see him find the utmost pace of the car rather quickly and once he learns its characteristics I think he has the superior talent to outclass Rosberg. Rosberg has shown to be quick but he lacks the tenacious aggressiveness the elites tend to exude. It's something that usually comes from within and it is rarely learned, though some develop the killer instinct after a performance or string of them that raises their level of confidence just that much more and it changes something in a driver. Perhaps that moment is yet still there for Rosberg so who knows, but I fully expect Hamilton to beat Rosberg this season.

You should have seen Nico's face after driving DC round the Nurburgring, he's a demon of a racer. But the Merc of 2010-2012 was a characterless car, the reason we think of Nico as having no character is because Schumi, his teammate who he outperformed quite often (a bit less as time went by), has so much character, and for good or bad that will come out.