I hate being forced to run dailies or 5 mans if I want to keep being competitive gear wise in raids.

I was considering quitting until it was announced that gear upgrades were out, now I'm considering quitting again.

Do LFR and if you don't want to do LFR for the newer raids due to not wanting to do the same bosses again, T14 offers 450vp for doing all the raids. You never mentioned scenarios, that is 40 right there, so that is 490 vp. You talk about raiding so I have no idea how good your guild is, but lets say you took 7 current tier bosses down that is 175vp and you are 625vp. If your guild still does MSV that is even more vp. If they don't, you have a choice, run LFR and scenarios over and over again since you don't like 5mans or dailies or do some 5 mans and dailies. You don't need to do 5ms and dailies every single day to cap. You can switch it up one day dailies, one day a 5m instance. Is it that PAINFUL that HORRIBLE to do a 3-4 5m dungeons a week and on other days do dailies?

"Forced" to earn VP by doing raids so you can keep you gear competitive for doing. ahem,raids. You're right that you should quit if you feel forced doing the content that you would be doing.

If you capped from raiding it wouldnt be an issue, but you dont even get halfway to cap right now. Its a terrible system that forces you to do dungeons/lfr/dailies to cap. They need to make it so you cap valor for clearing the current raid.

If you capped from raiding it wouldnt be an issue, but you dont even get halfway to cap right now. Its a terrible system that forces you to do dungeons/lfr/dailies to cap. They need to make it so you cap valor for clearing the current raid.

You can almost half your cap by doing last tier's LFR. I'm not suggesting that it's an ideal solution, but for someone who likes raiding to moan about being forced to do dungeons and dailys it strikes me as disingenuous that it wouldn't at least explore these options before the dreaded daily quest options. Challenge dungeons with a few guildies earn quite a good rate of VP, and okay so they are still technically dungeons but at least they are with guildies instead of randoms. of all things to complain about in this xpac, and there are a few, VP acquisition is not one of them in my book. The whole upgrade thing as a concept, now that's a different matter but enough people seem to like it for Blizzard to bring it back so meh.

You can almost half your cap by doing last tier's LFR. I'm not suggesting that it's an ideal solution, but for someone who likes raiding to moan about being forced to do dungeons and dailys it strikes me as disingenuous that it wouldn't at least explore these options before the dreaded daily quest options. Challenge dungeons with a few guildies earn quite a good rate of VP, and okay so they are still technically dungeons but at least they are with guildies instead of randoms. of all things to complain about in this xpac, and there are a few, VP acquisition is not one of them in my book. The whole upgrade thing as a concept, now that's a different matter but enough people seem to like it for Blizzard to bring it back so meh.

Easiest version:

Raid
Faceroll a normal 5man for 80VP/day
Do dailies for your charms.

Depending on progress you might need a few additional points, I recommend Mogu shan LFR. These are relatively quick and worry free.

You can almost half your cap by doing last tier's LFR. I'm not suggesting that it's an ideal solution, but for someone who likes raiding to moan about being forced to do dungeons and dailys it strikes me as disingenuous that it wouldn't at least explore these options before the dreaded daily quest options. Challenge dungeons with a few guildies earn quite a good rate of VP, and okay so they are still technically dungeons but at least they are with guildies instead of randoms. of all things to complain about in this xpac, and there are a few, VP acquisition is not one of them in my book. The whole upgrade thing as a concept, now that's a different matter but enough people seem to like it for Blizzard to bring it back so meh.

I like raiding current content. I dont like doing things ive already done just for valor. I shouldnt have to go back and do old content to stay competitive in current content.

I think it's a great addition for pve (and it was retarded for pvp:P). My only real worry that remains regarding the upgrade system is that the (upgraded) items from the previous patch potentially remains BiS, yet can't be gotten anymore, once the next content patch hits (e.g. some 2/2 sets and trinkets from t14) if it's removed. Hopefully blizzard keeps this in mind for 5.4, possibly by allowing the previous tiers items to remain upgradable?