Australian Government Plans To Continue Holding Secret Anti-Piracy 'Stakeholder' Meetings With Industry; No Consumer Advocates Allowed

from the ridiculous dept

You may recall that the Australian government has been holding a series of secret "anti-piracy" negotiations between the entertainment industry and ISPs. When more information was sought via a Freedom of Information request, the Australian Attorney General sent a fully redacted document, claiming that it was "not in the public interest" to reveal how the industries and the government would be screwing over the public (slight paraphrase). This, alone, is ridiculous. However, getting even more ridiculous is that, following the High Court ruling saying that ISPs are not liable for infringement by their users, the AG has said such meetings will continue:

The Federal Government would “closely examine” the High Court’s judgement in the long-running copyright infringement case won by ISP iiNet over film and TV studios this morning, Federal Attorney-General Nicola Roxon said this afternoon, as she noted that closed-door talks held by her department with industry on the matter would continue.

Thankfully, iiNet's CEO seems to realize that with this ruling in hand, he doesn't need to give in to industry blackmail. While noting that the meetings had been "been going around in circles," in the wake of the High Court ruling, iiNet CEO Michael Malone announced at a press conference that "My preference would be to walk away now." If only it were that easy.

Response to: Random on Apr 23rd, 2012 @ 10:16pm

I agree with this. I don't think it is about money though because they could make a whole lot more by embracing what the Internet has to offer instead of trying to stifle it. No, it is more about there own arrogance in clinging to an outdated business model. They want to control what we watch, and how and when we watch it. The internet lessens that control.

Love the way your blogs always contain at least one 'slight paraphrase', which is invariably a slur on someone you don't agree with.
Claiming 'secret meetings' is also a loaded phrase.
I believe it's been normal practice for the Australian Labor government to hold closed session meetings with industry stakeholders when consulting on changes to any law.
Pirates are breaking current law, so why they would be worthy of a place at the negotiating table I'm not sure.
In the meantime, Aussie ISP's are at the table. So unless you think the ISP's having won in the courts, are too weak, then I'm sure they are perfectly capable of representing themselves and their customers in this negotiation process.

You obviously have no idea how incompetent the Labor Party is.

People love to through down terms such as "meetings with industry stakeholders" and other variations with the key word being stakeholder. It is a sad state of affairs when the public who pay for these services are ignored as stakeholders, and the only people who get a say are the people who donate vast sums of money, while the real stakeholders get to shake our heads at the pure stupidity of what gets jammed down our throats as being good for us.

Re:

'secret meetings' = closed session meetings

That much is very clear.

Aussie ISP's are at the table. So unless you think the ISP's having won in the courts, are too weak, then I'm sure they are perfectly capable of representing themselves and their customers in this negotiation process.

Is it really hard to listen and give the customers of ISP's what they want, and how they want it? Do IP maximalist find it hard to talk to the common people and instead talk to ISP about how to repress and control what the common people wants? Because the way I see it, if only copyright holders listen to us and give what we want how we wanted it, there is no reason for us to pirate.

Re:

It is a secret meeting the ALP (Australian Labor Party) has actually stated as much.

It is absolutely NOT normal practice for this, since even the senate is concerned about these one sided meetings that minutes are being withheld from even them. This is quite unusual unless for things like national defence or similar.

When the Industry in question only has .5% (yes one half of a percent) of the total Australian GDP and are getting more special treatment than mining or other more beneficial industries you need to wonder what type of duress is the so called **AA's of the USA placing upon the Australian Government . The obvious conclusion drawn doees not bode well for our democratic process.

Pirates are breaking current law
Really? Which laws? please point them out and please show proof that anyone has been charged with these laws in the last 4 years within Australia.

Basically what you have stated shows you have no clue whatsoever about what is happening within Australia or within the laws themselves. Instead you are trying to force your prejudgements on others based on your bias, your culture, and your lack of first hand knowledge.

Re: Re:

quoteWhen the Industry in question only has .5% (yes one half of a percent) of the total Australian GDP and are getting more special treatment than mining or other more beneficial industries you need to wonder what type of duress is the so called **AA's of the USA placing upon the Australian Government . The obvious conclusion drawn doees not bode well for our democratic process.

Funny that you should mention the mining industry. The Gillard government had closed door talks with miners when framing the MIneral Resource Rents Tax, just the same way they've held negotiations behind closed doors with ISP's and Content Creators.

Re: Re: Re:

The "mining tax" was held within closed doors for part of it yes but it was also open to community debate and senate reviews.. Or is that not relevant to your viewpoint.

Want to talk about the "Carbon Tax" as well? same situation. The Copyright talks they are having at the moment are not just secret but also undermine the Law Review that is currently in progress that will finalise its recommendations late 2013.

Also I asked for actual Australian laws.. not extradition to US based on US laws, nor a US written article solely for US laws. [From the Lifehacker link: Oz editor note: while the specific laws discussed in this article apply in the US, the general principles also apply in Australia. ]

Show using the Copyright Act (1968) or using the Crimes Act (of any state) any person who has been charged and convicted of a breach of any of these statutes within Australian courts..

Re: Re: Re: Re:

What don't you understand about "the general principles also apply in Australia"?

The Mining Tax was wrapped up behind closed doors, that's just a fact. If it wasn't, Andrew Forrest wouldn't have been so pissed off.
Maybe any agreement made between the content industries and ISP's will also go to a senate review. Who knows? Nothing has been decided.

need I go on? The US laws are not harmonised with ours other than on a very very elemental level. The only real harmonisation we have is with length of Copyright terms, and that copyright is instantaneous (though we were first with that too).

Comparing US laws with Australian is always fraught with danger, and in the case of copyright anyone who has had major legal and first hand experience with the actual laws within Australia in day to day usage like an IP Solicitor or someone consulting within that field would tell you that.

Don't believe everything that Lifehacker places on their site just because they have a disclaimer about US v AUS so called similarities of laws.

Re: Re: Re:

Although I didn't find the laws Thompson was asking for I did found this:

From one of your links:

Although you can encrypt and anonymise your BitTorrent traffic or subscribe to a Usenet provider that offers a connection via SSL to protect yourself when downloading anything from either service, you still have no legal right to download any copyrighted content without expressed permission. For now there is little we can do to make this situation better other than encourage the film and television industries to regard piracy as competition. As iTunes has proven with music and cartoonist The Oatmeal has cleverly illustrated, when itís easier and affordable to use the legal route, thatís the route most people will take.

Really should be a thing to emphasize. This is what should be done by them, and not making more backroom deals, secret meetings and such.

Re: Re: Re: Re:

@ #22

'Although you can encrypt and anonymise your BitTorrent traffic or subscribe to a Usenet provider that offers a connection via SSL to protect yourself when downloading anything from either service, you still have no legal right to download any copyrighted content without expressed permission. For now there is little we can do to make this situation better other than encourage the film and television industries to regard piracy as competition. As iTunes has proven with music and cartoonist The Oatmeal has cleverly illustrated, when itís easier and affordable to use the legal route, thatís the route most people will take.'

this is the obvious route, the sensible route, the route that consumers have been asking, no, practically begging for, for ages. it is also the route that the entertainment industries refuse to take.

what needs emphasizing is that not only is it the 'route most people will take' but it is the entertainment industries themselves that refuse to allow this 'route' to be taken, not consumers that wont take it! they should stop blaming everyone else for a situation that they not only created but refused to do anything themselves to alleviate, other than keep getting the bad laws made worse and really pissing off the very people they rely on to make money. how bloody stupid is that?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

quote:For now there is little we can do to make this situation better other than encourage the film and television industries to regard piracy as competition. As iTunes has proven with music and cartoonist The Oatmeal has cleverly illustrated, when itís easier and affordable to use the legal route, thatís the route most people will take.

Has iTunes reduced music piracy? I wasn't aware it had.
What can be more affordable than illegally free?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re:

Re:

"When discussing the new strip mine and smelting plant proposed, local government held closed-door meetings with energy and mining company representatives. When this was protested by local environmental and citizen groups they were told 'You little people just go back to your reality TV and let the grown-ups decide what is happening to your backyard. And yes, we have complete assurances no despoiling, poisoning, ripping off or pollution will occur.'"

Re:

Pirates are breaking current law, so why they would be worthy of a place at the negotiating table I'm not sure.

Who said they should be?

What I find baffling is that you seem to think the only stakeholders are industry groups and pirates. Not one mention of the largest stakeholder group that would be the most affected by this stuff: the citizens.

And no, the ISPs (or any industry group) do not represent their customers. They represent themselves and their interests, which are often not aligned with that of the general public.

Re: Re: The latest

Oh, I don't know....it would hard to give up boB or darryl - they provide some welcome relief and even an occasional insight before going off the tracks. But you can definitely trade out that one AC who blunders through here like a drunken frat boy. And the one that has that bizarre fixation on Marcus.

Re: Re: Re: The latest

Contact the Attorney General

Here are her contact details, since she does not want anyone from the consumer base being there I am sure she would be happy to hear our issues on this and present them on our behalf. If everyone sends an email maybe it will take her reality distortion field glasses off for long enough to read one.

Re:

why is it that every government seems to be so intent on bending over backwards to do what ever it possibly can to please the entertainment industries whilst at the same time doing whatever they possibly can to screw over their own citizens? what is it that the entertainment industries have that they can use to blackmail every government so effectively? and please, dont just say money. no industry can pay enough to bribe the whole world! so what is it?

Game Over

Call it what you like - it's pure evil.

One could not be blamed for concluding that most western so-called 'leaders' (including those of several major countries) and politicians are corrupt shills of special interests, controlled by them in one way or another, and that both they and that and those who control them must be wiped form the face of the earth for all time.

Good to see the most violent language in the debate being used by the anti-copyright lobby.
By the way, this from THe Australian Greens Policy Page:
"artistsí intellectual property rights to be protected"

Re:

Go find some photos of what coal mining does to West Virginia. Or what copper mining does to Montana. Or what clear-cutting does to the Pacific Northwest. Resource extraction is a necessary process, but company profits shouldn't trump all other concerns. The public ARE stakeholders in most businesses.

Your elected officials are supposed to represent their constituents. Perhaps they are, in fact, representing the majority on the many issues before them. Otherwise I presume they'd be voted out. Maybe they don't consider your ability to unlawfully enjoy copyrighted content a big priority.

Re: Re:

Well I for one would be mighty interested in a fly on the wall documentary about someone setting up a local, officially recognised chapter of the church of kopimism. As has been done in Sweden and one US state already. Just because the **AA mobs would probably self destruct with outrage, and all the inevitable road blocks that would suddenly be erected would display the farcical manipulation goin on by the Governments*.

Idiotic move

Julie Gillard's government is already treading a thin wire and one of her party's advantages over the opposition is the way they have been dealing with the Internet, especially arguing that optic fibre high speed is necessary and keeping a hands off approach.
All this is changing because of the never ending political interference from USA and the corporation lobbyists wich in many cases mounts to blackmail.
Well Julie if you want votes start standing up for us voters and tell all the anti everything parties to go jump. let them know that you represent a Government for the people not for private industry.
let them know if they have a beef with alleged illegal downloading deal with it through civil courts and not rely on Governments to legislate just for their favor.

About Groupwise Email

We stumbled over here from a different web address and thought I might check things out.I like what I see, so I am just following you.Look forward to looking at your web page repeatedly. What‚Äôs Happening I am new to this, I stumbled upon this I‚Äôve found It helpful, and it has aided me out loads. I‚Äôm hoping to give a contribution & assist different users like its helped me. Good job. Feel free to visit my website www.hostedgroupwise.com