Well, played, but didn’t do much. Decided to head towards Mary’s thing, which was far away. Magpied up to a ranch, dude killed me. Got jumped by, like, 147855 O’Driscolls. Died. Got as far as Valentine. Got the free gun from the guy who I helped out with the snake venom (did you get that? Handy). Decided to eat, sleep, that sort of thing to get to a normal weight. Apparently oatmeal doesn’t cut it. Need better food. Said “I need better food, but I have no money,” so I…..

did a bounty.

It was kind of easy. Just really a ride out, figure out the trick (died twice, but reloaded the checkpoint right before I died, no biggie), bring back the bounty. Quick and easy. Not themey, per se, but whatever. Only worth 25 bucks, but after giving all my money away to chicken coops and bounties, I needed it.

Here’s something I’ll say for this game: it makes money matter. This game, at least in chapter 2, it’s important to feel poor. That’s the point right now, right? The gang is struggling. I figured they’d have a problem with this, because in most games a) money doesn’t matter because you find so much stuff in the world you never have to buy anything, b) you get so rich so fast that it becomes irrelevant how much things cost or c) both. Here, I really do find myself thinking through every little transaction. I get happy when I find $1.04. (More than a dollar! Score!) I find myself thinking “maybe I should go hunting so I don’t have to buy the camp food.”

That, in a game like this, is good design. I think they nailed it in the sense that I do feel myself thinking hard about my finances but I haven’t (yet) gotten to the point of not being able to get something I really need (except FAST TRAVEL) and, thus, getting frustrated.

More games should do that.

Feminina:

I’m with you on money and having to scrabble for resources, and how they set that up effectively. I think this would get old after a while, but as a first act, it does make you feel that money and minor loot (canned goods–I can eat those! a pocket watch–I can sell that!) are important.

And I’m sure the fact that it DOES get old after a while will help to explain the fact that the gang goes along with whatever bad idea Dutch and Micah (or whoever, but I’m betting Micah) cook up. I mean, first of all Dutch is the boss and we do whatever he says, but also we’re tired of living like this, counting up every four cents, having to hunt rabbits to keep ourselves fed…let’s go after the big score that will probably end in disaster!

Good times.

Butch:

Oh, no doubt. You can already tell, if you talk to dudes in camp, as I’m sure you do, that there’s already some people are starting to grumble about the accommodations, chicken coops or no. Indeed, that whole “It’s better here….have hope…” speech was given around a meager campfire, in the dark, to people with downcast eyes. Hardly a rousing “YES! Yes, Dutch! We believe!” crowd. More like a crowd that’s been sleeping in the dirt eating bad stew and is starting to not like sleeping in the dirt and eating bad stew.

It also exposes another fault line in the gang: Dutch’s thing with Colm O’Driscoll. We hear, early, Arthur and Hosea saying “I thought you said revenge was something WE CAN’T AFFORD,” emphasis mine. They’re saying “Dude, why are you wasting time with this selfish thing when we’re sleeping in the dirt and eating bad stew?”

This game does issues of class rather well.

And it sure is hitting close to home. Given our current situation, and certain pundits and politicians saying “No one cares about bureaucrats with cushy jobs not getting paid for once” and “This is like a nice vacation for these [pampered] people,” hearing Dutch, he of the “real Americans” say “Only weaklings with low IQs go work for the government” resonates maybe a tad more than the writers thought it would, which isn’t a bad thing, artistically.

Another aspect of this game’s ideas of class is how the poor/middle class/dying breed of Americans struggling to survive is eating itself to get ahead. I haven’t robbed a bank yet. Sure, there was that train robbery, but the ways I’ve made the most money are a) loan sharking other poor people and b) taking bounties on other poor people FOR THE GOVERNMENT. We’re not sticking it to the man. We’re sticking it to people like us.

Hmm.

This is two days in a row I thought I didn’t have anything and we’re doing well.

You playing yet?

Feminina:

No, I looked at Notifications > Uploads, as you suggested. Some things uploaded on and before Jan. 21, like it showed on the Application Saved Data Management screen. And then?

Ahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

The next slot after Jan. 21 says “error. Failed to upload.”

Because obviously.

Apparently it’s just been failing to upload for the past two weeks for some unspecified reason. Probably it has regularly popped up a notification about that failure…probably the kid has regularly ignored it while turning on the system in the morning to watch cartoons.

And that is how the entire universe conspired to make sure the game data I saved over is definitely, absolutely, really-truly gone forever.

After that, I just tuned out. I have to work up to even being able to face loading this thing again.

Butch:

Dude. That is some seriously cosmic shit. Cruel, cruel, cosmic shit.

You likely hit that ten gig cap at exactly the wrong time. Clean that shit out.

Spend the day working yourself up to play! For mr o! For the blog! For your own damn sanity!

Cuz the only way to put this behind you is a few good playing sessions.

Feminina:

Yeah, no doubt. No doubt.

Siiiiiigh.

Sticking it to people like ourselves is exactly what The Man wants us to do. And we’re falling for it!

Don’t do it, Arthur!

Butch:

Play tonight! You’ll feel better.

And, in the irony department, as of today PS+ members, like us, are now allotted 100 gigs of cloud storage instead of the ten we had….uh….how to put this delicately….a couple of weeks ago.

***cough***

Ok, back to blogging.

The Man wants us to, yes. And I think the game is trying to make a point by MAKING us do what the man wants us to do. We HAD to do at least two “collect the debt” missions. We HAD to shoot up Strawberry (which wasn’t us robbing the rich). We HAD to shoot up the O’Driscolls there, and that was after the O’Driscoll explicitly said we were just like us. The game is the same kind of puppeteer that the Man is. What’s interesting is that I haven’t read a lot of analysis of this game mentioning that, which makes me think that most of the people who are playing it are being manipulated into this and not noticing.

That, in and of itself, is interesting metaphor.

Even the optional stuff! If you lay off the bounties, that’s gonna cost you a bunch of money. I only did it because I needed to. I’m sure we’d be far richer (or, at least, a little bit richer) if we played all black hat and robbed everyone we could find. You know, the poor saps like us. The game is built to have a middle/working class that eats itself to survive, and reward those who eat the most.

Hmm.

Feminina:

You’re kidding. [Groan.]

Siiiiiiigh…back to blogging…

Yeah, true. I haven’t been robbing people (even the witness I threatened with brutal violence if he reported me!–I figured hey, he’s more likely to think A LITTLE kindly of me if I don’t take his money, and even a smidgen of goodwill could mean the difference between mentioning something to the sheriff someday, and not), and certainly I’m the worse for it, financially.

Even choosing not to completely clean out Wroble…that probably set us back $5 or $10. And when we’re counting the pennies, that’s not insignificant.

Butch:

It’s not! I’m sure I could’ve gotten a pretty penny for that engagement ring. More than five, ten bucks, too.

Though last night I did get quite a windfall from being nice. The guy with the snakebite. I mean, a $100 gun? I felt like I hit the lottery.

Feminina:

I haven’t run across that guy again, but I did help him with his snakebite issue, so that’s something to look forward to.

Speaking of helping people, that gunslingers quest with the author? I went out of my way to go find all the gunslingers in a timely fashion, and then I wanted to find the guy and get paid, but now my journal just says “this quest will be continued at another time.”

So…no rush on that one.

Butch:

Hmmm….interesting…..

I haven’t done any of them. Maybe that’s next.

Though I WAS gonna get Mary’s brother. Have you done that?

The dude with the snakebite was chilling on a bench outside the gunsmith in Valentine. It’s marked on the map with a gun. You talk to him again, he says “Go get a gun on me,” and you do. Nice little perk.

Feminina:

“Go get a gun on me.” Wow. Thank you, sir, that’s quite a generous offer! Most people would just say, “let me buy you a drink.” (And, to be fair, Arthur would happily accept that also.)

I’ll get the most expensive gun I can and then sell it back to the store and put the money towards fast travel.

Or food for the camp, I guess.

I did get Mary’s brother. You should probably go do that, actually. It’s themey. You’ll like it.

Butch:

Wait…..you can sell guns? I don’t have that many guns, though.

It was quite the generous offer! I was half expecting the merchant to be all “The fuck you saying, pardner?” but no. Legit. Go get it.

Tonight. WHEN YOU PLAY. Tonight.

Figured that would be themey. But I’ll probably magpie. Or something.

I’m kinda running out of stuff, though. I have this feeling that the blackwater bit is going to be a “and now the next chapter” bit. Have you done it?

Feminina:

I have not done Blackwater, but that’s kind of the next thing on my list as well. There just isn’t really anything else going on unless I want to go back for that bounty that destroyed me the first time.

Though, again, it wasn’t the fights that did it, it was not being able to save the fights when it was bedtime. I’m sure it would be fine if I just set aside enough time to make sure I can get the corpse back to town.

Butch:

Maybe, but I’m guessing you did that somewhere other than Valentine, right? Cuz the one I did last night was a lay up, and it was explicitly the last one in Valentine (the Sheriff is all “Well, that’s the last of ’em, gonna focus on street patrols….). So maybe that was a “Dude, you’re not supposed to be here yet” thing.

Either way, fuck that shit.

Feminina:

It was out by Saint Denis.

Oh, and that’s a good question, I don’t know if you can sell guns or not. I’ve never done it. Maybe you can’t. I was just thinking of games where I sell everything.

Butch:

Yeah, see? I haven’t been anywhere NEAR St. Denis. No wonder it was hard.

I dunno, man. You need 25 bucks, go do the one in Valentine. Grab the free gun while you’re there.

Feminina:

I might do that. Might do.

I do need to do some sticking it to people like me. After all, The Man doesn’t enforce his rule all by himself: he needs our buy-in.

Butch:

Watch: You’ll get jumped 19 times and be all “BUTCH! THE FUCK!”

I dunno, man. There was one trick, but it was ride there, grab, ride back. Didn’t see anyone else. Well, one guy, but he was kinda funny.

Easy money.

And the free gun is free.

“Might do.” We are starting to talk like cowboys, huh?

Feminina:

What did I say? When we first started, I was like “prediction: we will wind up talking like grizzled prospectors before we’re done with this.”

There’s something catchy about that old-timey drawl.

Butch:

Now I tell you what, I figure I’m too ar-tick-you-late to fall for that kind of cow patty. And I reckon a lady such as yourself has been a part of too many cattle drives to let something as hare brained as cowboy talk turn this here blog into a wild doggone hootenanny.

Feminina:

NICE.

Nicely done.

Boy howdy.

Butch:

Thank you, miss. Thanking you kindly.

Now you make sure you run on home after your chores are done and play those there vidya games the youngin’s enjoy so we can pass the time talkin’ on ’em after the next sunrise or I’m going to go as crazy as a June bug in July.

Feminina:

Boy howdy!

I reckon.

Butch:

Dude, aren’t you the one who actually LIVED in the west? And “I reckon” is the best you can do?

Feminina:

People in the west don’t actually talk like grizzled prospectors anymore, as a rule.

Also, I don’t rightly know for certain, but more’n likely I’m just in awe of your command of the idiom.

Butch:

They……..don’t?

Feminina:

Well, you know, not so’s you’d notice.

Butch:

Nicely done there, pardner. Slipping it in all subtle like.

Please play this weekend. We need themes. Or, at least, nudity.

Which has been sadly lacking.

Feminina:

Yeah. I had a moment’s hope there when I paid for that bath in Strawberry, but no, it was just a bit of back. Siiiiigh.

Butch:

Well, when I was checking why I only got a bronze thing (which I always get) for the boozy mission, one thing I didn’t do was “Catch Lenny in the act.”

Take that as you will.

Feminina:

Ah…interesting. I will…take that as I will. I guess.

I bet it was just a bit of back. If that.

Butch:

Well, the box does say “Strong Sexual Content.”

That Sadie has eyes for me, she does.

Feminina:

I’m WAITING, box.

Butch:

At least you got horse physics.

You know, ever since you told me the horses poop, I think my horse got the runs. I can’t unsee it.

This day really started well.

Feminina:

I told you that would happen!

And I sincerely apologize.

Butch:

Jeez. Here’s a small sample of what we said today:

“Another aspect of this game’s ideas of class is how the poor/middle class/dying breed of Americans struggling to survive is eating itself to get ahead. I haven’t robbed a bank yet. Sure, there was that train robbery, but the ways I’ve made the most money are a) loan sharking other poor people and b) taking bounties on other poor people FOR THE GOVERNMENT. We’re not sticking it to the man. We’re sticking it to people like us.”

And now we’ve gotten to horse poop.

Feminina:

Yeah, well, we like to try to speak to the entire spectrum of peoples’ blog-reading needs.

Thoughtful, insightful discussion on game themes and their relationship to modern day reality…and horse poop.

Some spoilers for the main storyline (rescuing Micah) in Red Dead Redemption 2

Butch:

How are your saves?

I have two weeks worth backed up. Backs up each slot three times. Check. You should be fine.

This is why you have me.

Feminina:

I didn’t see anything in the online saves after January 21, for some reason.

Maybe we did have to set it up. And it expired near the beginning of the year.

I don’t know, man, weird. But the last thing there is from January.

Butch:

Seriously?

It renews automatically. Check again. I didn’t set up shit. I was surprised at how many I had.

Well, despite the fact that I know for a fact that Mr. O’s missing save is in there in the cloud (if you have saves from Jan. 21st you have saves from this week….did you go to “saved data management” or just the PLUS sign?) (Plus doesn’t expire on Jan. 21st unless you got it on Jan. 21st. It lasts a year from purchase.) (I’m this close to just going to your house and finding it), we have to talk about something and luckily I have something to say about something you did.

Here goes.

So we were doing ok with themes. We were. We had the death of Americana, we had anti-semitism, we had the shift to banking economies in the 20th century, we had all sorts of shit.

But then I did Micah’s mission and shot up Strawberry last night.

I thought hard about whether there was some sort of themeage there. I said “Well, maybe Micah is showing that there’s good and bad in Americana,” but I realized Arthur kinda sucks, too. So really, I got nothing.

Which got me to thinking, and this is our jumping off point today: I can’t think of a single level IN ANY GAME that is primarily combat that has themeage. Any game! It’s like games, all games, kinda say “Yup, we got this narrative going, but we’re going to stop for a while so you can kill Kevin.” That is, games with combat. We’ll except the Gone Homes of the world.

And, well, that’s kinda lame.

Now, I get the idea of combat being a thing in a game like TR or UC. Those games need combat because they are, at their core, exciting. But a game like this, or Mafia, or ME, those games are about story, and bigassed combat set pieces like last night interrupt everything in the story.

So two questions:

1) Do you think combat and theme really are mutually exclusive? and2) if they are, does that mean that bigassed combat set pieces are simply remnants of what we think games “should be?” Like, “Well, games have big fight scenes, so we’re gonna put them in even if they don’t fit?” and3) If THAT’S so, should they go away? Should a game like this only have little bits, small shootouts, quick things to set the realism, and be done with it?

Ok, three questions.

Feminina:

You’d better come to my house and find it, then. I went to “application saved data management” > “saved data in online storage” which both seemed obvious AND is what the internet said when I checked in case I was missing something. When I selected RDR2 from the list of games, I saw saves dated from Jan. something (I forget) to Jan. 21, and nothing after that. It doesn’t make any sense to me either, but I don’t know what else to tell you–that’s what I saw. I looked very carefully. I was really hoping it would be there!

And yeah. Micah and Strawberry. That was…not fun. Remember way back in Dragon Age 2, when Anders was plotting behind our backs to blow up the Chantry? And we were just SO ANGRY with him? I really, really wanted to punch that character. And you couldn’t, because attacking him wasn’t an option!

I felt about the same regarding Micah. Micah is a jerk. If it had been an option in the game to just abandon him, I think I would have, but when I tried hanging back he’d get killed and it would reload. So you HAD to stick with him and help him in his stupid attempt to murder everyone in town.

And, I mean, whatever, the lawmen are our natural enemies in this game because we’re outlaws, so I don’t PREFER having to fight 15 of them and wind up with a $145 bounty on my head, but OK.

But when he went to that house, and killed the dude on the porch, and, I assume, the woman inside? You don’t murder civilians, dude! That’s basically the only moral principle I try to stick to. (I mean, I don’t always succeed. I ran over a few people in Mafia 3. But not on purpose, damn it.)

I already knew Micah was a jerk from, I don’t know, every time he’s ever said anything, but I was genuinely kind of shocked at that bit. (Forgot for a moment that this is a Rockstar game, I guess.) And even though Arthur apparently wasn’t that shocked (more annoyed and inconvenienced), and doesn’t find this to be beyond the pale, I personally rather resented having to help Micah after that, instead of just shooting him myself and running off. “Sorry Dutch! He died in the gunfight. Nothing I could do.”

I mean, OK, we’re all outlaws, we beat up people to collect debts, we’re not good guys, but there are LEVELS of bad guy. Micah is just a flat awful, bad person, AND he inconvenienced me with a large bounty I’ll have to pay off. I hate him, and I’m annoyed that I have to tolerate him because Arthur tolerates him (to be fair, Arthur clearly doesn’t LIKE him, and is only putting up with him because Dutch for some reason likes him).

Oh, and that ominous “I’ve been a bad boy” before he rides off…we’ll probably find out he’s been burning schoolhouses full of children to the ground, or something, and we’ll STILL have to forgive him.

I know the game is intentionally setting all this up so we can appreciate how frustrating this is for Arthur when Dutch keeps going along with it, or whatever, and OK, I guess I respect how effectively it’s managing my feelings. I suspect Micah is going to come up with another big plan that will be clearly a bad idea, but Dutch will think it’s great, and everything will go to hell again just like in Blackwater, and we’re supposed to be concerned and angry about this and about why Micah has this influence over Dutch, and how we used to be close with Dutch but now we’re drifting apart and so forth. And they probably want to make Micah as unsympathetic as possible to make sure we get all these implications.

Still. I’m extremely annoyed that I couldn’t at least punch him in his stupid face before he left. WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN SO HARD, GAME?

As to your questions…uh…hm.

1) I guess I don’t think combat and theme are mutually exclusive since I just spent 8 million words complaining about how a combat scene affects my feelings toward a character and how that fits into a larger narrative of character relationships, get-rich-quick schemes and looming disaster.

2) Big-assed combat set pieces in some games may indeed be remnants of things we expect all games to have, like “you gotta have some big fights in a game!” Certainly in some games, some combats do feel tacked on just because it seems like there should be a fight about now. I don’t know if I think this one was, exactly…I think it was there specifically to show us that Micah is a huge jerk, and is also reckless and doesn’t care how much trouble he stirs up, so he’s bad at planning for the future, we have a good reason to distrust his schemes, etc. I think we did actually learn something from this big fight, so I didn’t feel that it was just tacked on so there could be a big fight. Now, if they KEEP doing this, if every few missions results in a big-assed combat set piece, then yeah. That would start to feel out of place. And, in a game striving so hard to be realistic (in some ways at least) it would quickly strain belief. I don’t care how wild the west was, you didn’t have one guy or a couple of guys wiping out half a town in the same general area every week or so, and everyone else going about their business as if things were fine. (Did you take a bath at the hotel in Strawberry before all that went down? I took a bath. You can pay extra for a woman to come in and scrub your arms and legs for you. I assume that’s sort of a euphemism, like, heh heh, “scrub your legs,” heh–but in fact all that it showed was her washing you. I suppose I’ll take what non-violent human contact I can get.)

3) Should they go away? Well…sure, in some games it would totally make sense for giant fights to go away. No argument here.

Discuss! Or something, I’ve kind of lost track of where we are on this.

Butch:

You had me at booze.

Easy way to check. Go to “notifications.” Hit “options.” Select “Uploads.” That’ll call up a list of everything it’s ever uploaded ever ever. You might have to scroll some. If you see something more recent, then there ya go.

So what is your plan if it’s gone? Let Mr. O play for a while to get to where he was? Does he even want to do that?

If he does, he’ll get there by the end of the weekend anyway, cuz this is Mr. O. And I’m STILL behind you. Even with Micah and the weird guy taking pictures of wildlife and me finding his bag (I have a feeling I missed something there, as that was rather pat. “Hi! My bag! Hey thanks.” Seems like I missed something…..) and the New York guy giving me all that exposition about the mayor, I’m STILL at 17.6. How the fuck are you more than 20?

We’ll still have bloggage.

Micah…I wonder, though, what if we had just walked? At the point there where it told us to hook that thing up to free him, could we have just said “fuck this” and got on ol’ Roach? We’ll never know.

I only would up with $85 for bounty, but still. That cleaned me out.

I’ll never fast travel. Ever ever. So very broke.

LOVELY chicken coop, though.

Fuck.

YEAH! Civilians! I wasn’t cool with that, either.

But…well….wait. Arthur’s not even really putting up with him. He’s ONLY doing this because he likes Dutch and…..wait for it…..he does what Dutch tells him.

See, for all this “We live FREE!” stuff, they don’t. Dutch pretty much rules with an iron fist. Sure, he does it with a smile and says “But look what I give you!” But:

1) he doesn’t give them all that much,2) he expects “tithing” in return (fuck you even have to upgrade HIS tent before yours)3) he ALWAYS insists on his way.

Look at all the times people have said “Dutch….no…..” and he just says “YES!” and that’s it.

And why? Because he has them all convinced that a) they owe him and b) there isn’t anyone BUT him who can give them anything worth a shit. He also fills their heads with false hope based on “facts” that he knows. That speech about how “It was worse in Europe, it’s better here, and soon it’s going to be” (I’mm’a go there) “great again.”

Yup. I’mm’a gonna go there.

Cuz it seems that I can think of a situation, a real life situation, where a bunch of folks, good, solid, traditional Americans, seem to follow a leader who doesn’t give them all that much, expects a ton in return, won’t listen to anyone who tells him he shouldn’t do what he wants to do, convinces them that he’s the only one who can give them anything worth a shit….

I can also think of a real world situation where some of these traditional Americans might be a bit disquieted by the other traditional Americans in their coalition, like, say, Christian Evangelicals who might not, say, like, oh, I don’t know, someone who’s been married three times and messes around with, dunno, grasping here, porn stars.

But hey. Children of Dutch stick together. And Dutch gets his way.

Indeed, Micah even calls them CHILDREN of Dutch. That’s a loaded term, right?

And Children of Dutch do what they’re told. Even if they don’t like each other at all.

Cuz they’re living free. Like good, traditional Americans.

You think we’ll have to forgive Micah? I think we’re NOT going to forgive him. That this is a fault line between Dutch and Arthur.

And wait….you think Micah’s calling the shots? I don’t. He wound up in jail cuz he got drunk and picked a fight. I don’t think Dutch goes along with anything. People go along with Dutch.

Still….the combat seemed a bit much. There was wave after wave after wave, and the thing that REALLY made him seem like a jerk was killing that guy, and that wasn’t part of the fight itself. Felt a whole lot like they were adding fighty bits to the fighty bits just because they wanted fighty bits.

Giant fights should go away. Just like boss fights. And swimming.

And look, we’re doing well! See, this week was a blessing in disguise. Mr. O will catch up to himself over the weekend, I’ll catch up to you while he does that, we’ll get back in sync, won’t have to worry about you forgetting stuff, it’ll be all good!

Well done, Femmy!

Feminina:

Notifications and Uploads…OK, I’ll look.

I said “if you tell me what you’ve done, I’ll go do the same things to get the game back to where you were so you don’t have to do it all over,” and he said that was OK, that he’d get back into it eventually, when he could face the thought of it. So we’ll see.

I still feel bad.

And I didn’t mean Micah has influence over Dutch in the sense that Micah directly tells Dutch what to do and Dutch does it, or anything. Micah is definitely not in charge. As you said, Dutch is the boss and he does what he wants, and tells everyone else what to do and they like it or lump it.

I just meant influence in the sense that he can say “hey, Dutch, here’s an idea!” and Dutch for some reason likes it, more than he likes other (more sensible) ideas. Sort of the way bloviating propaganda TV station figures might have ‘influence’ over a megalomaniacal wannabe-tyrant leader who does whatever he wants, but also whatever sounds like a good idea at the moment. To take a random example.

Micah’s not calling the shots, but he’s suggesting things to shoot at, and Dutch is going for it. I mean, we’ve been told that the Blackwater thing that went to hell was his idea, right? And Dutch was strangely into it, even though it wasn’t the kind of thing they normally did? And it turned out badly, but nevermind, onward and upward, things will be great again soon!

Also, yeah, that “we are children of Dutch, and so we are brothers” thing was dense with meaning. And how they’re on horseback, facing in opposite directions…the scene just screams “inter-family conflict ahead! moral rifts that will tear the gang apart!”

So good point, maybe we won’t forgive him when we find out about the burning schoolhouses or whatever other bad things he’s been doing. Maybe that will be the breaking point.

I hope we get to punch him in his stupid face.

Also a fair point I forgot to address–what if we’d refused to bust Micah out of jail? I think we couldn’t have done that forever. It was a yellow quest mission, and I think at some point we had to do that to move on with the story.

I mean, I really only did it because I was kind of out of other stuff to do already (except go after that bounty that filled me with seething white-hot rage before, and screw bounties).

I think we had to do it if we wanted to keep playing the game.

Butch:

Hmm. That likely means that this WAS setting up a plot point later. We are still in chapter 2, after all. Can’t go letting major characters die. But you can start creating rifts between major characters.

But that’s a very noble compromise you offered! Makes perfect sense, really. And this time, SAVE A LOT OF PLACES! SLOTS! USE THEM!

And check notifications/uploads.

“When he can face the thought of it.” Mr. O, thy name is melodrama.

We must put this behind us. Live and learn.

Whoa, really? Blackwater was Micah’s idea? I missed that. That changes how I look at stuff, then. I didn’t catch that.

We’ll likely shoot him at some point.

Did you find his “camp behind sweetwater?” I didn’t look. Paid my bounty and turned it off.

What have you done that I haven’t? I’m running out of icons in general. I have the Mary thing where I have to get her brother back (might do that next, as I have some ideas on theme), getting dude back from Blackwater and the gunslinger stuff that vortexed you away. And a couple of bounties. Ha.

I’ll try to stay on your track until you get back on track and tell me you’re playing again.

Feminina:

Ha–“face the thought of it” was me, not him. He didn’t actually say that. He said he would get back to it “at some point.” I read into it.

And yeah, I swear Arthur says something–maybe it was in his journal–about how the boat thing in Blackwater was a scheme Dutch and Micah were working on while Arthur and Hosea had something else in the works. So, OK, maybe he didn’t specifically say it was all Micah’s idea, but certainly Micah was involved while he, Arthur, was not. And that boat thing was the thing that went all to hell and they had to leave Blackwater and all their stuff, etc. etc.

I’m pretty sure the implication was that Dutch does stuff when he’s around Micah that a) he wouldn’t have done otherwise or in ‘the old days,’ and b) turn out badly. Because we also have to remember that Micah is comparatively new in the gang (again, from what’s been said). So he’s a brother, but also an interloper…a NEW brother who’s taking up all daddy’s attention.

Or, alternatively, he’s a bad, outside influence on a once-close and loving family, a PRETENDER to brotherhood, and represents…I don’t know, the ugly brutal future of heartless banking and sociopathic murder, juxtaposed against the wholesome good old days when all we did was…hold up stagecoaches or whatever. It’s an imperfect analogy, since the old days likely weren’t actually that good, but I think we can read some of it into the story.

Butch:

Melodrama your name is Femmy.

(Nicely done on getting the console to yourself again. I kid, I kid. Sorta.)

On Micah: Huh. I believe you, just missed it. That does make me ponder. I was reading it as Micah being the village idiot, in a way, and Dutch having a soft spot for him, not someone that anyone takes any kind of seriously. But, if that’s true and I missed it, which is fairly likely, then…hmm.

Well, I can see him presented like that, as an outsider who ruins everything (and that’s consistent with the metaphor: there’s lots of people who are into American traditions who are all “Well, wait….we are rather conservative but these white nationalists and whatnot do not speak for us….they’re newcomers to our party (ha) as it were and waaaah they’re getting daddy’s attention), but it’s interesting that my reaction to this quest was “Maybe this is juxtaposing the bad of the gang against the good….oh….wait…..” You’ve said many a time: Arthur is NOT good. Which, if you keep up with the metaphor, also makes some sense. Certain elements of Americana talk on the good ol’ days, and decry white nationalists and all that, but they also harken back to days of segregation, and women in the home, and “before all this PC nonsense.” So, are they really all that different?

I feel bad I started today thinking there were no themes.

This game’s got themes.

Feminina:

True, true. You have to be instantly suspicious of any nostalgic look back to any good old days. Good for whom, and in what specific ways, and in comparison to what specific feature of today?

I mean, no doubt, there are ways in which I might feel that previous times were better than current times. But there are also ways in which I might feel that they were worse, and if you’re basing any kind of policy decisions on nostalgia, you have to consider the whole package or you’re just being stupid. That, or trying to slide something by other people you think are stupid enough to fall for it. (Maybe they are! People ARE stupid. It’s a known fact. I mean, look at me, I can’t even save a game properly.)

Like, remember when we all young and spry and childless and could stay up playing video games literally all night? Weekends of nothing but Dragon Age Origins and maybe a pause to eat something! And the D&D! Think of the epic D&D sessions! Man, those were good times.

But then you also have to remember that we didn’t have nearly as many good games to play, and couldn’t afford nearly the same caliber of booze, and I DO like my kids most days, so I don’t REALLY want to return to that past when they didn’t exist.

We can smile and remember those happy days all we like as fond memories, but the minute we start seriously saying “we need to get back to,” or “things should be more like” those days, the rose-colored glasses have to come off and we have to start thinking hard about the ENTIRETY of those days and exactly what it would actually mean to go back or be more like them.

Like, OK, how do we get rid of the children? Can we just abandon them in the woods and hope they don’t follow a trail of breadcrumbs home, or will we have to actively hire a huntsman to kill them and bring us their hearts? (Like THAT ever works.) And…now I’m evil.

Nostalgia is a poisonous trap, man. I don’t trust anybody talking about the good old days or how wise our ancestors were. If they were so damn wise, why did they produce us?

On the other hand, I obviously don’t think all of modern life is awesome. After all, it was produced by our flawed and stupid ancestors (as well as us) and a lot of it is frankly terrible. I just don’t think that means the past was automatically better. It was terrible in different ways. Like slavery, and polio! To pick merely two of the thousands of things that were bad about the old days!

So I think Arthur’s longing for the old days is suspect, and if he wants to return to them he’s obviously doomed to failure, but that doesn’t mean he’s wrong to be leery of the future, either, especially if the future is Micah’s schemes and institutional control of everything (represented by the government and the idea of big banking).

Basically, the moral so far is probably that he’s just screwed, as are we all, because life is terrible.

At least he has booze!

Butch:

And the nostalgia thing, again, I think is why they chose to tell this particular story (and this particular metaphor at this particular time) as a Western, that genre that revels in false, whitewashed nostalgia like no other. Or, at the very least, a nostalgia of a very narrow strip of the grand demographic, that is, the people who think that white dudes in white hats murdering everyone else so white people can live in white houses in the heartland.

Remember, though, there are people who harken back to the time when things were…well…whiter. I won’t go so far as to say there are people who want to bring slavery back, but look at the backlash over the idea that maybe we should take down statues of people who were instrumental at perpetuating slavery because to take down said statues “disrespects our past glories” or some shit. Sure, hippies like us can say “Well, things kinda suck now, but do we really want to go back to the days when there was no gay marriage and abortion was illegal?” And there are, of course, lots of people say “Dudes, that’s WHY it sucks now. It was GREAT before (yup. Went there).”

And I think the game is skewering that. Our nostalgic depiction of the good ol’ days, of “freedom” and “unspoiled lands” and “great” times are being portrayed as pretty awful. There are no heroes. Even when Arthur looks like the good guy, he isn’t.

But then, I should say, he isn’t YET. We’re only in chapter 2.

As for life being terrible, well, I think he feels that way, too. What was the line? I think it was “I think maybe our time is coming to an end…and we’re gonna have to start paying for our sins.” That sounds like a man who thinks he is screwed.

He does have booze! That he does. And assorted biscuits.

Feminina:

Man, I wish I had assorted biscuits. I only have one kind of biscuit, and honestly, it sucks. It barely replenishes my health at all! I think one time it actually made me weaker!

Although that might have been because it wasn’t a biscuit, it was a 2-pound bag of peanut butter m&ms.

Butch:

Close enough.

Hey, my Arthur is “underweight,” and I can’t do anything about it! I even chased my camp stew with a chocolate bar, and still nothing!

Maybe you need to ride horses all day. It seems like you’d just be sitting, but according to the internet, riding actually burns a lot of calories. Plus there’s all that brushing and patting the horse, and the occasional gunfight…Arthur leads a very active life.

Or there are Microsoft’s suggested responses:

“What do you want to make?”
“I can’t either.”
“I’m so sorry for you.”

Uh…OK, Hotmail. Thanks for your input there.

Butch:

“I’m so sorry for you” works.

Still. Ever see Arthur on a treadmill? No. Does he own workout gear? No.

No spoilers. Extremely profound discussion of the definition of ‘art,’ devolving into advice on home repairs. You’re gonna love it.

Butch:

Well, I guess election night wasn’t a total disaster, right? That’s what passes for good news these days.

Didn’t play. A friend was supposed to come over, but bailed, and then Mrs. McP wanted to watch the news so I got drunk as a defense mechanism because what else can you do?

I’ll play today. Everyone’s back at school.

Feminina:

Indeed, this is our good news. Not a complete disaster! Yay!

I was home yesterday because Grigio was throwing up. Good times.

But hey, that night could have been a lot worse. Small joys.

Butch:

Remember when we hoped for better news than “Not a complete disaster?” Those were the days.

Well, at least I’m not doing pukey laundry.

I think I’ll go cheer myself up by going to check out that new liquor store out in Burlington. Gotta do something.

Feminina:

Those were the days. How young and naive we were!

But hey, new liquor store! Definitely worth checking out. There could be valuable loot. And you need something with which to drink to the not-total-disaster.

Pick me up something that goes with pukey laundry.

On second thought, never mind. Whatever that is, I don’t actually want to drink it. Not unless I get really desperate, anyway.

Butch:

We’ve all been that desperate. And, if any place was gonna have something to pair with it, this was the place. A little overwhelming, really. But hey! Booze! Hooray, booze!

Well, still didn’t play, but we’re on a roll here, so we can keep rolling, right?

So while I was at stop and shop wondering where the brita filters were, I started thinking about this game in terms of art in general, and decided to get all esoteric. You’re cool with esoteric. It’s how we do.

So I mentioned yesterday about how complicated it gets, analyzing art, when something has such highs and such lows. And we agree Mafia three has very high highs and some low lows, right?

Usually, I would say, “Ok, still a work of art. Art, by definition, is something that makes you think, and, if you are thinking about something’s flaws, then fine. You’re thinking, it’s art. We think on the flaws of art on these pages all the time.”

But the wrinkle in this game wasn’t that there were bad parts, per se, it’s that there were BORING parts. We played parts of this game that were very thought provoking, and then we’d play stretches where all we could say was “Killed Kevin.” That isn’t criticism. It’s a void.

So when we do things like talk about how the shift to third person in Rise of the Tomb Raider was jarring, we’re still thinking hard about the art form, and Rise of the Tomb Raider’s place in it, good or bad. But when you have NOTHING to say about something, good or bad, it stops being art. Right?

But that would mean that it is possible for something, one thing, in this case Mafia 3, to be a work of art that has parts of it that AREN’T works of art. IS that possible? If it is, is THAT something that, like so many other weirdnesses, can only exist in a game?

Then I found the Brita filters.

Feminina:

I didn’t play either. Esoterica ahoy!

And…weeelllll…I don’t think it can be partly art and partly not art. Unless we’re going to say that a movie with a lot of boring parts is partly not art, or a book with a lot of pages where nothing really important happens is partly not art.

It’s partly art you appreciate and partly art you don’t appreciate, sure. Partly good art and partly bad art, if you want to make a value judgment (though, art being subject, there were probably people who preferred the exciting, murdery combat in this game to the boring, overly serious conversation bits).

But unless it literally turns into another thing in some places, like it switches to a video tutorial on how to use WordPress or something and then goes back to the game–it’s all part of the same thing. If the thing it is, is a piece of art, then I say it’s all art. Again–maybe not all successful art, maybe not all good art, but it’s all art.

I mean, if the entire game were nothing but hunting Kevin, we would say it was a boring game we didn’t care about and probably wouldn’t finish playing, but it’s still a game, right? And a game is art, in the sense that it serves no practical purpose.

I’m using art broadly here, obviously, to encompass pretty much any human endeavor that doesn’t have some specific practical purpose. We could argue that, say, a drugstore greeting card with a bad drawing of a kitten and a terrible poem on it isn’t really art, and if we’re going with that, then sure, we can talk about whether or not specific pieces of other artworks (movies, books) are also not really art. However, I’m not sure I really want to get into drawing the boundaries of what is and is not art, so broadly speaking…I’m going with yes, even the Kevin-hunting was art.

DISCUSS.

Butch:

Huzzah! Pull up the wing back chairs and put on your smoking jackets. We’re gonna go full PBS.

Except games have a fundamental difference from books or movies. Books and movies ARE one thing. A linear thing. You start and one cover, read until the other. You plop down and start watching when the lights go off, get up and leave when the credits roll. So you can say “Man, some of that was boring” because you couldn’t leave.

But non linear games aren’t like that. We talked just the other day about how reviewers might have played very different games before writing their reviews based on what parts they played.

So are games like movies? Or are they more like collections of short stories? Because if they are the latter, then I think you can very much judge them piecemeal. You wouldn’t sit down with an anthology of short stories, even by the same author, and say “I shall judge the second story based on how I felt about the first.” You’d approach them independently.

See, we’re used to judging games like that: the short story model. We do it all the time. Even games we adore, the main story is usually pretty lame. We love games for the side quests. Witcher 3? Yeah, yeah, wild hunt, save world, yeah got it. The magic of that game was the Bloody Baron and the queen of Skelege. Anything by bioware? Save the world, yeah yeah yeah. It’s the companion quest and whatnot we love. We’re willing to forgive the big picture because of all the episodic things along the way.

The reason we’re struggling so much with this game is it’s exactly the opposite. The MAIN story is great, everything else isn’t. Or, at the very least, the episodes on the main story’s arc are great and everything else isn’t. That’s almost never true. At best, we can say “The main story missions were AS GOOD as the side quests.” And we’re confused.

And I think that confusion begs the question: Have we been thinking about our own thinking about games all wrong? (Told you we’d go full PBS). When we’ve been all judgy of games as whole things, were we a) wrong to do that or b) wrong that that’s what we were doing in the first place? Have we been judging games as episodic shorts all along?

And oh, I’ll define art. I think art is any creative effort that inspires thought or reflection, or, at least, some visceral emotional response. There can be bad art, or offensive art, or flawed art, but I’m going with that as the discussion.

I would say your Kevin hunter game would be entertainment, which is fine, but entertainment isn’t art. The process of making it may well be the same, but art? No.

I think that art and entertainment are a Venn diagram, really. We’ve played games that are, without a doubt, art but not entertaining at all (Looking at you, TLOU), and games that are entertaining as hell without being really thought provoking (Uncharted 3, say). And we’ve played things in that overlap. And it doesn’t have to be in that overlap to be “good.” Both TLOU and UC are “good.” For what they are trying to do.

Which is my segue to how to judge them. If a game (or movie, or book, or whatever) isn’t really TRYING to be thought provoking, but is just trying to be entertainment, then fine. We take it for what it is. If a game (or movie, or book, or whatever) is aiming for that art part of the Venn diagram and misses, then we are going to skewer it, both in how we think about it and how much we like it. Nothing’s more eye rolling than something that takes itself WAAAAAY too seriously. Intent of the artist matters.

Which is why I think we’ve been intentionally or unintentionally judging games as anthologies all along. Take TW3, a game we both think is excellent. There were times when it took itself very seriously, and tried to say serious things. But then there were bits where you got drunk and stole Yen’s clothes, or played a lot of Gwent. And that’s fine, because in the gwent bits or funny bits, it wasn’t trying to say anything of substance. It would be like having a funny short story thrown into the anthology. That’s a lot easier to take than if all of a sudden, there was a musical number in Schindler’s List and we had to judge that as one, whole, monolithic artwork.

NO, YOU DISCUSS!!!

Feminina:

I WILL DISCUSS.

I like the anthology analogy, but…I think it’s not completely accurate. I mean, you can ONLY read certain stories in an anthology. “I bought this for Author X and ignored all the other stories” would work just fine.

Whereas you can’t, often, play only parts of a game. I mean, you can to a limited extent. I didn’t do any of the car racing in Mafia 3, and we both skipped some of the racket missions once we did enough damage to call out the boss. We skipped most of the boxing in TW3. Etc. But in this case, the very complaint is that we can’t skip a lot of the fighting and driving. You HAVE to do it. I think if you HAVE to do it, it can’t reasonably be separated out as “one story in the anthology.”

I can certainly see a game is like “one main story with a lot of smaller stories” and some of the smaller stories can be skipped (and some can’t), but unless we imagine a book with one main through-story and bunch of skippable side stories, it’s not exactly the same.

Maybe more than an anthology, a game is like a TV series…a lot of episodes in an ongoing sequence, featuring a lot of the same characters, but with potentially very different tones and emphases from both one episode, and one season, to the next. And some episodes, or some seasons, are a lot better than others. I would still argue they’re all art, but according to your definition, this may not be so.

And then, I guess, it’s far to ask whether or not we judge TV series as monolithic artworks, or as individual episodes/seasons. And the answer is probably “yes.” We do talk about them in both senses. (This could also apply for long-running book series, where you have a lot of different ‘episodes’ in which to explore different characters and stories and tones.)

Maybe we love some characters but hate certain seasons or story arcs or books. Maybe the first few seasons/books were great and the last one was terrible. Maybe it was all good except for that one story arc about so-and-so.

Butch:

YOU DO THAT!

True. Anthology is an imperfect analogy. Even in games that didn’t have so much unskippable stuff, you’re going to have to do the same beginning, say. Do the tutorials. We all had the same opening scene in the Witcher 3. You cannot skip to page 187 as soon as you open a game up, that you can’t. But it’s the best analogy I got. We’re talking about a new art form, here.

I think we do tend to judge TV series as monolithic pieces of art. Even if we don’t judge them as one unit (yes, we say that season was better than that season all the time), we expect a certain thing, with limited deviation, from each episode/season/whatever.

It goes to “what are they aiming for,” again. But, with TV, we allow them to aim once. Usually. A comedy? We can say “that episode is funnier than that,” some episodes become rather iconic while some are forgotten, but it has to stay FUNNY. Seinfeld’s horrendously misunderstood finale, which ended with them sitting in a prison cell quoting “No Exit” pissed EVERYONE off because what was Seinfeld DOING? They CAN’T do that! We could say that a popular show breaking the fourth wall and pointing out you’ve been laughing at awful, AWFUL people for years is quite an artistic endeavor. But it’s not acceptable for a show that hadn’t been doing that.

For some reason, the opposite seems to be more acceptable. We’re ok with a serious show letting its guard down every once in a while. An episode, say. Not a whole season.

Ok. But to go back to our initial question regarding how to judge something that’s sometimes so good and sometimes so bad, how many episodes/books/whatever in the series have to be good to couteract the duds? Or how many duds drag the whole thing down? There’s gotta be a line somewhere.

Feminina:

I’m sure there’s a line, in terms of how many boring episodes one can tolerate while still judging the overall work to be good, but I’m not sure it can be precisely calculated since it will probably vary from person to person.

Also, I’m not sure it’s always necessary to pronounce a final judgment on things. “Is this good, or bad?” Sometimes, things can in fact be both. “There were parts I liked, and parts I didn’t like” is a perfectly reasonable (and extremely common) response to…a lot of things.

But where any given person draws the line between “good with flaws” and “bad with some good bits”, I don’t know. I suppose it would make sense to just say it’s about the proportions, and if 51% was good, it’s good with flaws…but then, it also depends on the specific flaws.

If it was 51% good with flaws, but the flaws were really, incredibly, horrifyingly bad (in this case, I don’t know, say if you not only had to hunt all those Kevins but the game inevitably glitched and shut down halfway through each fight so you had to spend 5 minutes reloading every single combat), then maybe that outweighs the good. I might just no longer have the patience to sit through those flaws to get to the good parts, even if the good parts were technically a larger percentage of the game.

Like I said, I’m not sure we’re going to be able to devise a precise formula here.

Butch:

Well, that’s fine. We’re not good with precise. But at least we have encouraged thought. Thus, we are art.

That we are.

Man, I’m tired. And broke. Paid the junk people, the electrician and got new gutters and soffits this week. How are your soffits? You have soffits, you know.

Feminina:

Do not speak to me of soffits! We had to have a plumber to fix the toilet last week. Someone has to come back to fix the stove again, because the last time, it didn’t take. The sliding doors in the upstairs shower are out of their tracks and cannot be convinced to go back in, so you basically just can’t get in.

I do not wish to hear tell of soffits. Even though you totally made that up.

There is no bigger waste of money than repairing an appliance. By the time the fucking thing gets fixed, you’ve paid, like, 80% of what it would cost to just get a new one.

Just get a new one.

As for shower doors, I’ve been there. Rip ’em out, get a curtain.

Carefully, rip them out.

And fixing toilets is easy. The fuck you calling a plumber for? Even I can fix toilets.

But here’s the real “Why’d we buy houses?” tale of the week:

So I went to replace my outside light fixtures. I can do this. You unscrew the old one, take it off, attach the white wire to the black wire, screw it back up. Easy. Done it a lot. So I go to unscrew the fixture, only to find it is nailed there. Nailed. “Odd,” thought I. So I took out the nails only to find that the man I bought my house from had simply sawed a rather uneven hole in the outside of the house, reached in, pulled two interior wires through the wall, attached them to a fixture without anything else, like a junction box, and then nailed the whole thing to the outside of the house.

So for all these years, our outside lights are really just…what’s the word….fire hazards.

The electrician took a look and said “Well…that’s….crafty….”

Why’d we do this?

Buy a new stove. Get a shower curtain.

But dude, fix your own toilet.

Feminina:

The toilet was leaking water all over the bathroom floor AND through the pipes into the basement! We were afraid to mess with it. Next time.

You’re probably right about the shower doors and the stove. Unless the steel tariffs have driven up the price of appliances.

We should actually probably get one immediately, just in case that’s going to happen next month.

I don’t know why we got houses. You did try to warn me.

Also, everyone knows Wikipedia can’t be trusted. You probably wrote that article yourself just now.

Butch:

Ah, see, “all through the pipes” isn’t “toilet” so much as “complete clusterfuck.” Be specific.

Go get a stove.

Feminina:

Sorry, my bad. I’m new at complaining about houses. I might not even have realized what a terrifying fire hazard your outside lights were!

“Crafty?” I might have said. “That sounds like a compliment! I will now skip away humming a merry tune.”

No spoilers, except possibly of your cheery mood. Readers in the U.S. should probably vote.

Butch:

Ok, while the kids are gone I’m gonna play. Cuz I didn’t play. I don’t even know WHY I didn’t play. I was GOING to play. Maybe it’s the crushed soul thing. The kids are SOOO tired, they are SOOO needy. They’re in that “I’m going to talk all the time cuz I need attention despite the fact your whole fucking JOB is paying attention to me I don’t get enough attention.”

Fucking kids. Screwing up your game time even when they’re not there.

Feminina:

Yeah, that’s kids all right.

Mine are still goofy with candy and grandpa, but he’s away now. We’ll try to get them calmed down and back to normal over the weekend.

For a couple of weeks, until the holiday madness.

Oh, wait, next week isn’t normal, it’s the election (I SO want it to be over, and yet I’m kind of terrified of the potential results, so…maybe we should just linger here in this period of doubt and possibility) and there’s no school so O’Jr.’s spending the day with the grandparents and the cousins. He’ll be all wired up for days.

Butch:

Oh right. Election. I already voted, so it’s not in my head, cuz I did what I could do then tried to hide in a cocoon of video games and booze. Only the second one seems to be coming to pass.

I WANT TO PLAY!

That day IS parent teacher conferences though. That’ll be a damn blast. And Nugget and Meatball have the day off (cuz it’s elementary conferences) and Junior doesn’t, what not being in elementary school and all, and getting his ass out the door on Tuesday will be SOOOOOOO much fun.

“WHY CAN’T I STAY HOME, TOO??????”

Why’d we do this?

Feminina:

Oh, that’s going to be a morning to remember. At least Grigio, who still has daycare, is small enough not to completely understand that he’s missing out on a fun day with the grands THAT HE IS OWED BECAUSE HIS BROTHER GETS IT.

I voted already too, a week and a half ago, and also wanted to immediately forget about it, except all the news keeps talking about it. MAKE IT STOP!

Unless the way it stops is like in 2016. In retrospect, I could have dealt with another few years of not knowing that outcome.

It’s like living in Schrodinger’s Democracy, man.

Butch:

Ain’t it just? Ain’t it just.

I’m getting depressed.

Only way out of this is to go spend too much money on food and make myself a nice, wine accompanied dinner tonight, then come home and murder some dudes. Or something.

Feminina:

That sounds like the way to go, all right. Booze and video games. The opiate of the masses, when they really need some opiates.

Well, I suppose the current addiction crisis suggests that opiates are the real opiate of the masses. But the ones who haven’t quite gotten there yet are really working the booze and video games.

Butch:

This is depressing. It’s Friday damn it!

Drinking coffee while the nice meat man custom cuts me some Icelandic lamb. Dudes been doing right by me since I wore a fallout shirt and we talked on games. Always goes out back for the good stuff.

Small joys.

Feminina:

We must cherish these small joys. Their memory may well be all we have to sustain us through the long, bleak years of doom ahead.

OK, that was a bit much.

You’re right, it’s Friday! I have a desk drawer full of Halloween candy! It’s weirdly nice out (probably a symptom of the approaching climate apocalypse, but never mind)!

Time to party.

Or play games. You should play games so we have something to talk about besides real life. Real life is much too grim.

Butch:

Games. Anything to cheer you up.

Feminina:

Yeah, see? It’s your duty, as a good and caring friend, to play some games.

If anyone asks, you’re just trying to pull me out of a depressive spiral.

Doesn’t sound like my/our thing. That it does not. That’s an excellent point of rewarding hours NOW instead of WHEN IT SUITS YOU, which sums up my second biggest bother about games like this (the first, of course, being I hate other people).

I wish it luck. I do. But I’ll stick to good ol’ single player.

Feminina:

Agreed. I thought also an interesting point that it could turn out to be like some Minecraft servers where people plug away at their own stuff on their own time–but then she also says that you can’t build very much.

Because we know that some people (not us) really liked building and maintaining and improving settlements, and that’s one of the most Minecraft-y things imaginable, and yet apparently you can’t just go wild with it. Hm. We’ll pass. Wish it luck and I hope people who play it find it fun, but it doesn’t sound like something I care about.

Butch:

Yeah, it did sound like “Hey! Make settlements and invite your friends!” which were two things I did not want to do. But, as the article attests, Minecraft has built an empire on people wanting to do those things. I am just not one of those people.

I just hope this doesn’t lead to the blurring of single player and multi player. Bioware’s Anthem has me nervous enough. I’m not talking about single player games with a multiplayer mode that can be cheerfully ignored (TLOU and ME3 both boasted those, and we didn’t care). I mean when the WHOLE GAME blurs lines, like Anthem promises to do. Cuz here we are again: You CAN play single player….I guess….but…..

That ain’t good.

Feminina:

I agree. I mean, fine, do what you’re going to do with multiplayer online etc. in some specific game I’ll then avoid playing, but don’t make that the new standard so all the good games wind up there, OK?

Butch:

Agreed. And one does worry.

Of course, they’ve written the obituary for single player games every year since World of Warcraft came out and they’ve always been wrong.

Feminina:

We must take comfort in the repeated wrongness of people who spend a lot of time wildly speculating about video games on the internet.

People like us!

Hopefully we’ll also be wrong about the pending apocalypse.

Butch:

Damn you’re cheerful.

At least I have the good Icelandic lamb chops.

And wine. Lots of wine.

Feminina:

Sorry. Sorry. These are dark times.

Or not! It’s Shrodinger’s Apocalypse!

Maybe I should cut back on the Halloween candy. Subsisting primarily on sugar may lead to a certain jumpiness.

Butch:

See? You should eat some lamb chops. Especially the Icelandic ones.

Though tonight it’s fish. Gotta stay some sort of fit. And the track is less fun when it’s cold. Which is saying something.

Feminina:

Lamb is healthy! Probably. Sort of. I don’t know, it’s up to you to keep track of the nutrient values of meat.

I shall have grains, beans, and fresh vegetables! And cheese. Lots of cheese.

Butch:

All I know is the Icelandic stuff really is better. I thought it was a gimmick for sure, but I tried it and damn, it’s the best. So I thought “No, that MUST be a gimmick. Maybe the recipe was just good and I nailed it,” so I got more HOPING it wasn’t good because I’ll hope something isn’t as good just to prove to myself I’m not a sucker for gimmicks. But no, it was amazing.

Maybe I really am a sucker for gimmicks. But fuck it. I’ll be a sucker for gimmicks who’s gonna enjoy me some lamb chops.

Tomorrow. Cuz I need to be healthy tonight.

But I’m still eating something more interesting than “grains.”

Feminina:

I’m going to challenge you on two points there, because this is the level of our discourse today:

First, I’m skeptical of the assumption that Icelandic lamb is inherently more interesting than Icelandic grains. For all you know, it could be heritage longleaf red barley with a unique smokey flavor profile from being grown on volcanic hillsides in the long northern summer nights. Or something.

Second, I’m also skeptical of the assumption that ‘more interesting’ is necessarily a good thing. All I really know about Icelandic cuisine is the fermented shark I had once, long ago. It was EXTREMELY interesting, but I think we’d both be fine with passing on that.

Butch:

Dude, I’m not making Icelandic CUISINE. Even I know that’s fermented shark and pickled gnomes. I’m making lamb FROM Iceland into a lovely Greek inspired dish with tomatoes and feta and oregano.

You can have that smoky barley. I’m not really a fan of barley until it becomes whiskey.

I’m skeptical of your preference for pre-whiskey to lamb.

Feminina:

There’s nothing like a nice pre-whiskey pilaf! You have to admit that.

Butch:

I’m having some grains with my fish tonight! Right up your alley! Basmati with sesame and cilan-

Shit. We were so close to being on the same page.

Feminina:

Damn you, cilantro! The demon herb rears its head to ruin yet another perfectly cromulent dish.

Being all “Oh yeah, the slave auction was the Capital S Something” when you knew I was going to burn Remy Duvall on a cross.

On a damn cross.

Now THAT’S a Capital S Something, isn’t it?

Olivia got a reprieve cuz I had to ponder that Capital S Something.

A lynching from a Ferris Wheel? One thing. But DAMN talk about a whole lot of symbolism… DAMN.

You first. I’m still pondering.

Oh, and I’m worried. Why? Cuz in the news reports, there’s the cop being all “We’re at WAR! We have to round ’em all up and shoot ’em!” And I was thinking “Hmm…maybe I should’ve stolen that police truck for Cassandra…she might want to have some guns about now….”

Is this the time of the game where your laziness comes back to haunt you?

If it is, well, sorry Cassandra. I mean, I DO have to start TR sometime….

Feminina:

Ha. The funny thing is, I hadn’t burned Remy Duvall on the cross yet when I first got all worked up about this bit, so I genuinely was only referring to the slave auctions at the time, and TECHNICALLY Remy Duvall is not part of taking over the racket…so I was telling the truth.

In a coy and devilish manner.

But yeah, that was something. The logical end point, I suppose, of using the tools of the oppressor against him. Interesting how Duvall sort of curses at Lincoln, who says “have it your way” before we cut to the burning cross…suggesting that he was actually planning to just stab him, but if you’re going to insist, fine, let’s make a dramatic statement out of it.

Which is a bit odd, because no one’s ever needed to convince him to make dramatic statements before. I mean, since we did the Pagani/Cuba/Tommy part before this, it could maybe be seen as Lincoln starting to think about maybe possibly just a little bit toning it down in the wake of the bit of reflection he seemed to do in that district, only Duvall egged him on with his determined racism (just when I think I’m out!)…but what if we’d done this first? That was certainly an option.

I suppose in that case it could read as “he was already kind of getting tired of the bloody drama, but Duvall egged him on to one final big gesture, and then in the Pagani part he really started to reflect”…I dunno.

As for your question about the cops, I don’t actually know. Nothing more came of it in my game (so far, anyway) — I haven’t had any radio news updates with “cops descend on the Hollow, are repelled by gunfire from a mysteriously heavily armed populace” or anything. That police declaration of war certainly seems like the kind of thing that would matter, but…I don’t know if it does.

Some other things I thought were interesting about this bit:

When you take over the racket, there’s no option to recruit the boss (and this was not about wiretapping, I had all the junction boxes). You just kill him. So this was an unforgivable crime, to Lincoln–he’s not interested in working with this guy. (Fair! I wouldn’t want to work with him either.)

And then when he calls someone to take over the racket, he says “just so you know, we’re not going to be selling people. Find some other way to make money off it.”

And as I said, I did this right after the riverboat, so it was an interesting contrast with me thinking “man, all these civilians and boat workers, he really doesn’t care who gets in his way, he IS kind of a monster” (as we discussed), and then coming here and seeing that OK, there is a line he won’t cross, he’s not COMPLETELY a monster. There are things he’s not willing to do.

Hm.

Also, did you hear that conversation between the two guys as you’re first sneaking up on the Southern Union meeting? About how the only thing worse than a [black person], is a rich white man in a robe? How they always talk a big game, but when it comes to someone getting their hands dirty, it’s always going to be the little guys (the working class pamphlet distributors, as we talked about yesterday).

An interesting recognition of class divisions, which, since they’re all there working on the same thing despite these complaints, hints at the way racism can be useful to a ruling class: hatred of one group (uniformly defined by skin color) keeps another group (uniformly defined by skin color) from turning on people with whom they’d otherwise have nothing in common, and whom they’d perhaps have considerable reason to resent.

“Even though I’m rich and you’re poor and you work for me, it’s not my fault! It’s those OTHER people! It’s all their fault!”

A classic line that never gets old.

Butch:

Well, I think that part of it comes down to the other metaphor here, the person tied to a cross. Martyrdom.

I found it telling that the first thing you hear when you get to the place is Kevin complaining about rich white people. “Only thing worse than a black person is a white person putting on airs” or something. Pointing out that they talk big, but when it’s actually time to go out and actually be all violently racist, they retreat to their country clubs.

Which one would think would apply to Duvall. The only time we saw him before he died he was in a suit, in a luxury place, hardly getting his hands dirty. He “fights” from behind a microphone. Shit, he even denied BEING in the Southern Union.

So really, for all his talk, we have every reason to side with Kevin here, that he’s all talk and bluster and is happy to rile up the mob but not to join it.

And yet, here he is, prattling on about his ancestors and their sacrifice (see where I’m going?) and how “we all” must be part of the fight and all that. Even when everyone really knows that when he says “we all” he means “Kevin.”

So I think Lincoln’s “Have it your way” might be him saying “Hey, you want to be a martyr for your cause? He ya go, pal. You say suffering for the white race is important? Have it your way.” Duvall talked a big game about being part of the struggle. He’s not drawing Lincoln in. Lincoln is making sure that he doesn’t go back to the country club. Lincoln’s giving Duvall what he SAYS he’s always wanted: to be a racial martyr, just like granddaddy.

On cops, Ok, but you still got that bit with the chief being all “THIS IS WAR!!!!” even though you did all Cassandra’s stuff? Cuz then I’d feel a little better.

Yeah, I did notice that you couldn’t recruit the guy. I can’t tell if they’re doing all that because they want to make sure we know that there are things that Lincoln won’t do cuz hero or whatever, or if they knew that this game was going to be played by people who are not criminals, who would have the reaction I had (“Dude…I don’t want to take over that racket…”) and this was less a narrative decision as a “placate the player” decision. Even if, narratively, there’s places a protagonist will go, games often realized that we, the players, might refuse to go there with him (or her). This might’ve just been that.

Ironically, here, when you have a heart, I called Burke and, in the cutscene when the cars drive up, his guys ran over and killed not one, but two pedestrians.

“Innocent people can’t be harmed, so run over dudes on the way, ok, Burke?”

And yes, a classic line, but is it Duvall’s way of thinking? The argument he had with Olivia before this was an interesting thing. He is sitting there all “THIS ISN’T ABOUT A CASINO!” which could be read as “There’s more to life than money, there’s zealous belief in stuff (something that could be said about Lincoln, too)” or it could be read as “Fool! You think a casino will keep you rich? Not when the whole order of everything is being challenged. Look at the big picture or we’re doomed! (Which would be harder to say about Lincoln….Donovan, maybe.)”

Feminina:

Very good point about the martyr aspect, and how Lincoln is maybe just giving Duvall what he says he wants. Hey, now he’s a fallen hero in the eyes of all those working class jerks who were sneering at him half an hour ago! It’s the best possible outcome for him!

There’ll be a statue of Remy Duvall in Downtown 20 years from now, mark my words. Because of heritage.

Well, maybe not if the Haitian mob is still running the place.

I did think about that–whether or not the game is just cutting the player some slack figuring WE don’t want to go there. Because I’m so automatic on recruiting, I probably WOULD have recruited the guy, just out of habit, and then felt icky about it. Maybe the game is doing me a favor by not having that be a choice.

I also idly considered how maybe Lincoln could have kept the racket but started selling white people instead, if they wanted to reverse the whole thing. He’s got this endless supply of Kevins, after all…just knock them out instead of killing them and that’s a great labor pool! And we could argue it serves them right for trying to kill us! And hey, at least they’d be alive! But, you know, it would also be monstrous.

Plus, you’d probably have to work that through the prison system, since that’s how we mostly manage forced labor these days (bribe some prison officials, get these dudes into the system, rent them out for chain gangs, easy as pie!), and the prison system is a whole other piece of the huge, crushingly unjust story of the black experience in the US, and one that’s pretty much untouched in this game. Maybe they didn’t want to get into it.

Also, it would be a lot harder to think of Lincoln as not a monster. It works more smoothly in a lot of ways, I think, if we just say that no, this is the line he won’t cross. And I can buy that. It’s a pretty good line to not cross, so it works.

Butch:

Though watch: The irony will be that they aren’t, that we just made everything worse by bringing the cops and the rich and the whites rage down on the Haitians, they’ll all be dead and in jail, and there WILL be a statue of him downtown. Cuz that’s the kind of shit that actually happens.

But you’re done, so you know that, so don’t spoil.

Right…the game is kind of doing us a favor. Plus, a big part of a game is being able to connect with your character in some way. We have to WANT to be the character. Players are able to forgive a lot in a character, but if things cross a certain line, we might not want to be that character anymore. Once that happens, poof, the game suffers. There has to be that link. So even if we choose not to recruit the boss or something, if we “know” that it’s something that “crossed Lincoln’s mind,” that might turn us off Lincoln for good.

Yes, yes, yes, he, and, like, every game character ever, does bad things. But players, including us, have things we overlook and things we don’t.

It is telling that Sam Cooke’s “Chain Gang” came on during this particular racket, and I don’t recall hearing it before.

Prison would have been tough. There’s only so much one game can get into. And this game got into a lot.

It does.

I do wonder what they ARE doing there. It just says “A safehouse to lie low and keep an eye on the rich.” But what’s the earn?

Groceries. They went straight.

Feminina:

I did think that was kind of awesome. “Yup, this is a grocery store. We, uh…we sell groceries.”

And keep an eye on the rich. In case the revolution comes and we rise up against them, or they want to buy some groceries in the meantime.

Good point about “Chain Gang” coming on here! I heard that as well, but forgot about it. I did notice them doing a few interesting things with the music around this part of the game.

You’ll hear it. You always hear more than I do.

Also, I have not finished, as I did not play last night. Kid lunches, kid laundry, Halloween prep, etc. So I don’t know how it ends, and whether or not there’s a statue of Remy Duvall in Downtown (though you’re right, that’s totally the kind of thing that would actually happen).

Butch:

Even the rich occasionally need to pop in for a snack cake.

I have to say, even though it was in one of my rackets, I didn’t take the cash that was sitting there on the register. Didn’t feel right. The nice cashier lady was right there.

They do seem to have certain songs queued up for certain things. I heard White Rabbit a lot more when I was doing the drug bits.

Wait….there’s a chance we’d finish a game….at the SAME TIME? Even CLOSE to the same time?

I don’t know how to cope with that.

That statue of Remy would actually happen, and kind of has. When a family member got married, I had some free time to wander around Charleston, South Carolina. Lovely city. Lots of nice shops, great restaurants, you’d like it. And, by southern standards anyway, rather liberal (like, not New England liberal, but certainly more hipster chic than other parts of the South).

And near the center of downtown they have a rather lovely holocaust memorial. Small, but rather moving. It’s a block away from the famous black church (that recently got shot up by that white nationalist). It’s all in and near a lovely park. Serene. Respectful. Full of the history of triumph over suffering, of resistance, of progress.

And all of it under the shadow of a three story tall column and statue of John C. Calhoun.

And there you have it.

Feminina:

There you have it, indeed.

I often didn’t take the cash from my rackets either! I felt bad about possibly making it harder for people to do their jobs. It was like, “well, this is technically mine anyway, but hey, I want you to be able to make change if a customer comes in.”

I often didn’t rob the cash register at small stores in general, actually. Lincoln Clay isn’t out to hurt the little guy! Not specifically, that is. Not unless the little guy’s in a racket he’s trying to take down.

OK, there are a lot of qualifications on that statement, but basically, Lincoln Clay’s beef is with the Man, not with the local shopkeeper.

Keep your money, my good man! The med pack in your restroom, on the other hand, that’s mine.

Butch:

I, too, have not stolen from local businesses. Even the racist segregated ones!

I have pillaged their nudie mags, but they can keep their money. And their Hot Rods. And their album covers.

Ahem.

Feminina:

Shopkeeper coming into work in the morning:

“Oh no, the lock is broken! I’ve been robbed! …Well, it looks like the cash is all here…that’s not so ba—OH MY GOD the Playboy is gone!!!!! Why, WHY couldn’t he have just taken the money! That was my retirement magazine! There was only $12 in the register and he had to take the ONE THING I cherished!”

Oh well, you tried.

Butch:

You may be right. These dudes MUST cherish them. I mean, shit, some of them are five years old.

“Five years, and the only thing of value I have is taken from me….”

I’m a monster.

Feminina:

“That centerfold was the only reason I managed to drag myself out of bed every morning…might as well just go overdose on adrenaline now—WHAT???? The med pack is empty too????!!!”

[Goes outside and steps into traffic: is instantly run over by reckless driver who may or may not be Lincoln Clay or one of his many associates.]

Butch:

Nah. Decides to cheer up by getting a snack cake at the local grocery store. Is run over by Irishmen.

Twice.

Seriously. Cut to green cars, first one just takes OUT a woman. Then the next car runs her over AND her friend.

Dudes.

Yet another reason to stay inside with your five year old Playboy. Much safer than snack cakes.

Feminina:

Much, much safer. It’s what I would do every single day, if I didn’t have to go out to find Pokemon.

I kinda loved it! It wasn’t what I was expecting! I was expecting elegant, and the whole “It’s SINKING!” thing gave it a whole lot of suspense (that was probably fake but effective). And I got hurt bad, but didn’t die, which is a mark of a good level! And the stuff knocking people out of cover was a nice touch! Bravo!

So….”Re-elect Jacobs” on a statue of Andrew Jackson. Wow.

So…in light of today…. The FBI guy was all “It’s impossible to believe that wasn’t a political statement.” Hard to argue, guy. Hard to argue. Very hard to argue. And yet we’ve been talking all day about whether Lincoln is political, cares about politics, etc. But FBI guy, gotta agree.

Which….

When shit like this happens in games, one starts wondering if the developers are making a point WITH the character or they’re making a point DESPITE the character. It sort of feels like they got to this point, made Lincoln a blank slate, and then someone in production was all “But….we should SAY something, man!” So they had Lincoln do it.

Ok, fine. Saying stuff is fine. But we’ve had the chat we’ve had ALL DAY about “Is Lincoln political? Does Lincoln care?” and now this. This is some SERIOUS activist shit, one would think. Wouldn’t one? So…has Lincoln been this activist all along and we’re just now noticing? Or is this out of left field? Or is Lincoln all “Oh, shit, that was Andrew Jackson? I thought that was Colonel Sanders. I didn’t really mean anything by that…..”

Powerful image. Yes. But one that’s in character for Lincoln?

He….hmm. Lot to unpack here.

He says “I want you to send a message TO YOUR BROTHER.” Not “to whitey” or “to those racist fucks” or “for equality” or anything. To your brother. “To your brother” is not exactly all activist. Is he PRETENDING to be an activist so people like him more?

I don’t know!

A lot to unpack.

Feminina:

Riverboat! I dug it too! The slight tilting from side to side was a nice touch, the fact that you’d get thrown off balance by an explosion every so often was cool. There was a lot of good sneaking and dodging, and the kind of flickering disaster lighting was effective. And as you said, the sense of urgency was PROBABLY fake in that it would probably have been a long time, if ever, before the boat actually sank under you, it was still effectively done.

And yes, it is very hard to argue with the FBI guy’s interpretation of the act of leaving a gutted corpse on a statue of Andrew Jackson with a ‘re-elect Jacobs’ sign. Very, very difficult to make a case for that not having any political intention. “It was just the highest thing I could find and I wanted the body to be visible”…is not very convincing–even if Lincoln had made any attempt to argue along those lines, which he does not. He doesn’t say it’s not political, and he doesn’t say it is.

He doesn’t say he’s not an activist, and he doesn’t say he is. We’ve tended to interpret this as meaning the he doesn’t really see himself that way, because he seems to be motivated more by personal revenge than by rage against the system, right?

Which I feel is still true here. Because as you pointed out, he says that this is a message to Lou’s brother. A message to Sal, not to the system. And I feel like maybe the message is, “you want to get into politics? Here you go. This is what trying to work the political system is going to get you.”

He didn’t leave the senator’s body on the statue: he didn’t even actively set out to kill the senator, though he seemed perfectly happy to have him caught up in the damage. If he’d left Senator Jacobs gutted on a statue of Andrew Jackson, THAT would obviously have been a message to the entire country, but leaving Lou there was meant for Sal, and I think was meant to say “hooking up with politicians won’t save you.” And Lincoln’s no fool, so he certainly knows that a lot of people will SEE this message besides Sal, and will interpret it in broader ways, so I do feel this suggests that Lincoln is kind of becoming more willing to take up the mantle of political activism when it meshes with his personal goals. Why not make a dig at racist politicians in general WHILE threatening Sal in particular?

I guess…I mean, we’ve played him for many, many hours, but we still really don’t know Lincoln well. He remains a bit obscure, in a way that is probably intentional, and that lets us wonder about his motives and read into his actions…you called him a blank slate, and I feel like that’s true.

My SENSE of him is that he still wouldn’t really describe himself as an activist, he still is more driven by his personal need for revenge than by the injustice of the system, but that he’s happy enough to attack that injustice whenever he can, if it also helps him on his quest. Which…is selfish in that it’s focused on his personal needs more than on the needs of others, but this is true of most people–I’m not exactly out manning the barricades for justice myself–and also doesn’t mean that’s he’s not capable of doing really effective work for the cause, assuming you feel that the cause is well served by violence and murder.

And, honestly, it’s possible that Lincoln intentionally doesn’t explicitly claim the title of activist because he knows many activists would not really want him working vocally for their cause. Mass murder is fine for an out-and-out revolution, but kind of gives a bad name to nonviolent social movements, you know? How hard would the crackdown be on black protest marchers if Lincoln was leaving Black Power signs next to every corpse on that long trail of bodies in his wake? We’ve already got Remy Duvall equating the two, warning his white listeners about violent revolution and how the marchers are “coming to take what’s yours” or whatever.

Hm. I dunno. I still feel like probably he’s primarily motivated by his own revenge quest, but that he’s glad to murder a bunch of racists and shake up the system while he’s at it.

Except. Except. Except that it’s political not so much because of Andrew Jackson but because speaking of murdering…I liked the riverboat level mechanically, but also…dude. DUDE. It was intense. I went through the whole thing thinking “Lincoln kind of IS a monster.” Because the dead civilians, man!

People leaping off the sinking boat and getting eaten by alligators as I swam past! That lady on fire, screaming and dying on the deck! I felt…some kind of way about that.

Because this was a new line we crossed, wasn’t it? We’ve avoided killing civilians, I think. Though this is a player preference to some extent, since it would be possible to mow people down in cars and shoot them up in all the places we see them while we’re hunting bosses. We don’t HAVE to avoid killing them.

But this is the first time we actively did something in the story that killed a lot of civilians. We wrecked that boat, knowing there were a ton of people on it who weren’t specifically our targets.

And I figure I/Lincoln justified it by saying they were there to fundraise for a racist politician, so they are deeply embedded in the racist system, and this is kind of what they get. Except for the people who just drive the boat and serve the drinks, you know?

It’s terrorism, actually. Guerrilla warfare, if we support it. But either way, that’s the political statement: no one is safe. Your money won’t protect you, your class won’t protect you, your high political office won’t protect you.

And it’s kind of monstrous if that is a line we crossed just to get Lou and send a message to Sal. I don’t know.

I liked that it was intense, but man. I found it all rather harrowing.

Butch:

Very effective tension. As was the sense of (probably) fake threat in the “out of bounds” sections. Watching people jump to the “safety” of the bayou only to get chowed on by gators was rather harrowing. There was no real chance of winding up in the water yourself, but seeing it right over there was pretty spooky.

The casino bits were really good. One of the few levels where you really did HAVE to move. There was no way to let Kevin come to you, so picking your spots, darting to the next cover point, really planning, was nice. And, for some reason, I got so used to fighting “straight ahead,” that the last bit, when you’re going AROUND the front of the boat, was just disorienting enough that it felt new.

Nicely done level.

Also on the issue of probably fake threat, did you think that Lou, at the end there, when you’re slowly chasing him, could have shot you? I was trying to dodge, cuz MAN I was hurt, but I don’t think he was able to hit you. I don’t know, though, and not knowing is cool.

And maybe this was just a political statement of opportunity…but, as for not leaving the Senator’s body on the statue, he sure as hell left his NAME. He turned Lou into a very macabre political billboard. He didn’t write “Death to annoying radio ads” or “The Marcanos are doomed” or “Sammy and Ellis will be avenged!” He said “Re-Elect Jacobs.” By the way, did you notice there’s signs all over the French Ward that say just that? Like, normal signs?

An ordinary passer by might even think that the real target of the whole thing was Jacobs. Jacobs, after all, died, too, and anyone there knows that gators and all might make it hard to hang Jacobs up there.

Speaking of which, the ire towards Jacobs, putting his name up there, I don’t necessarily get that. A) the message is to Marcano, B), Jacobs didn’t do a whole hell of a lot wrong. Shit, did he even take the bribe? Lou and Sal were throwing this party TO bribe him. He got blown up and had his name used in this grisly way for the sin of being offered a bribe by Lou Marcano. For all we know, poor guy was in the process of telling Lou to fuck off. He certainly didn’t seem evil. He hung out on Lou’s boat. What’s next, killing everyone who did two-for-one happy hour?

Seems a bit harsh.

And it’s true that he’s still a blank slate….but is that good writing? After many, many hours, shouldn’t you have SOME sense of character? I suppose you could say that leaving Lincoln blank increases the player’s own responsibility, but I’d only really buy that in a game with real choice. It’s hard for me to feel very responsible when I’m not choosing the whole thing. I didn’t say “Hey…let’s hang him from Andrew Jackson…” Lincoln did. And, if he’s gonna do that, shouldn’t we know why?

On another note, in the “I’m only reading it for the articles” department, the playboy close to the brothel was a) November 1968 which featured b) a woman on the cover surrounded by flags and campaign buttons (strategically placed) and c) wait for it…a long interview with Eldridge Cleaver, leader of the Black Panthers.

They plopped that there. And included the interview. In its entirety.

Making a point?

And about being a monster, yeah…

But. But. But.

Yes, I give you that we did that. We blew up the crane, sank the boat, led to a lot of people dying, including burning women and screaming people getting eaten by gators as we watched.

But. But. But.

The architect of all of it wasn’t Lincoln. This was Donovan’s plan. Donovan put the damn wires on the crane (why didn’t he do the rest? Details). You say “terrorism.” “Guerrilla warfare.” True. All planned by the CIA guy. The same type of guy who planned such warfare and then sent “disposable Negroes” to do it to brown people halfway around the world. You know. Like Lincoln.

If you’re asking “Is Lincoln a monster?” aren’t you also asking the same of all the “disposable Negroes” sent to do awful things to innocents AT THE URGING/ORDERING of jacketed, blond, holier than thou white guys? People like Father James? Father James isn’t a monster. We talked earlier today about Donovan being the one saying “Do it. DO IT!” Just like he did in Vietnam.

Who’s the monster? Lincoln, who did it? Donovan, the mastermind of it all who knew full well innocents would die? Or the player, who stood idly by saying “Well, things are linear, it’s gonna happen even if it sucks?” Like so many people did, and do, in life?

Feminina:

Yeah, you’re right, the plan was Donovan’s. Many, many of the plans are Donovan’s. Arguably, the whole thing is Donovan’s, because without Donovan’s intel about who to go after and where to find them, Lincoln wouldn’t have been able to go forward with this plan at all.

We see that the first thing he does after he recovers from being shot in the head and all is call Donovan: he NEEDS Donovan. One could certainly argue that he’s just being manipulated by this mastermind who’s using Lincoln to pursue his own goal.

I hesitate to say that partly from a metagame stance because it’s awkward narrative to have your protagonist turn out to be someone’s patsy (BioShock pulled it off well, but that was an unusual twist and worked partly because it was so unexpected), and it’s especially not a good look to have your black protagonist turn out to be just someone’s patsy, so I don’t think they would have intentionally gone for that angle here.

But also, I hesitate to say it because Lincoln WAS the one to call Donovan to set the thing in motion. (Or, rather, he asked James to call Donovan…which still haunts James. But the point is, it was definitely Lincoln’s idea.) He wasn’t just hanging out minding his own business when Donovan showed up and said “hey, you know what you need to do? Kill them all!”

I think Lincoln needs Donovan, and he knows he needs Donovan, so he called him, and is using his information and willingness to plan (and partially set up explosive charges while he’s at it). He’s using Donovan as a valuable resource for getting this thing done, no doubt knowing quite well that Donovan is using him for something as well.

Does Donovan think of Lincoln as his disposable negro? Just a useful tool who can be pointed in the direction Donovan wants him to go? Quite possibly. I’m skeptical about how deep their friendship actually goes.

IS Lincoln in fact just a useful tool, in the sense that maybe Father James and other soldiers (even Lincoln, while in the army) could be considered to be–just obeying orders, likely doing things they didn’t really want to do, in the service of a white man’s war they didn’t choose?

I’m going to say no on that. Lincoln isn’t obeying anyone’s orders, and he definitely chose this war.

And it’s true that he wasn’t the one who planned the attack on the riverboat, but he went along with it. I, the player, didn’t really understand how destructive it was going to turn out to be (I thought maybe the crane would just crash into the water and STOP the boat or something, rather than completely wreck it), and so maybe Lincoln didn’t entirely foresee the level of destruction either. I think certainly we can argue Donovan is more culpable for the civilian deaths than Lincoln is. But Lincoln–who, again, chose this war, and chose to call in Donovan and to accept and use his information and assistance, and knew the boat was full of civilians–is hardly blameless.

As much as Donovan is using Lincoln as an attack dog to bring down [something he hates that isn’t completely clear], Lincoln is using Donovan as a supplier of information and ideas. We see this in their interactions: Donovan spurs Lincoln on with reminders of how the Marcanos killed his family, but Lincoln casually orders Donovan to “let me know when you have something,” or, in the most recent conversation I saw with them, to “get the information and figure out a plan.”

Lincoln is the action guy and Donovan is the plans guy, and it’s easy for the plans guy to think that he’s in charge because the action guy doesn’t know what to do without information, but it’s also easy for the action guy to think he’s in charge because nothing will actually get done without him.

Maybe they’re both kidding themselves about how in control of the situation they are.

But I think Lincoln doesn’t get off the hook because he didn’t plan the attack on the boat. He wasn’t ‘just following orders’ when he set off the charges. (Though as you say, we the players basically were, since we had no other options if we wanted to follow the story. And maybe this lets US off the hook. WE’RE not monsters! We just pressed the only button there was to push! What else could we do?)

Good thing we didn’t play anything else we need to talk about right now.

Butch:

I’m curious how it’s going to go when we get to the other capital S Something you mentioned.

He does need Donovan. It all stems from Donovan. Quite literally, really. The start of each district, each “catch the boss,” each story mission ALWAYS starts with “Talk to Donovan.”

And in the beginning, we have Father James saying “I wish I never made that call,” the implication being that if James hadn’t involved Donovan none of this would have happened. Lincoln would have done, what, something else. But something that James, in retrospect, would have preferred.

But right, Lincoln chose this. And it isn’t a Bioshock kinda deal, cuz in that your mind was being controlled. You weren’t being urged, per se, you pretty much HAD to do anything that came after “would you kindly.” Even if this is Donovan’s plan at Donovan’s urging, there’s no weird mind control going on (or, if there is, that’s fucking cheesy and I’ll be pissed). And a lot of the methodology is, we assume, Lincoln’s. Sure, Donovan wants them dead (it seems), but there’s no indication that he’s the one going “Hey, you know what would be really punchy? Hang the dude from the Ferris wheel.” That seems to be Lincoln through and through.

So even if Lincoln is being used for something he doesn’t know about, he’s hardly doing it because he can’t help it, and he doesn’t seem ALL that reluctant. Indeed, he’s adding quite the flourishes himself. With gusto.

No, that’s true. But as for the “disposable Negro” angle, if Lincoln and Donovan do share a mutual goal, if for different reasons, then Lincoln, the black man, still is the one with something to lose. The FBI guy, in the present, is talking about investigating Lincoln. You don’t see him saying “Donovan is a monster,” or “Donovan was the prototype for modern crime.” No, his focus seems squarely on investigating, and, we assume, arresting Lincoln. We certainly don’t see any indication that Lincoln could sit before Congress with a smile on his face saying “You’re goddam right I murdered them all” like Donovan (sorta) did. Donovan seems completely insulated from any type of legal risk. Lincoln does not. And that’s pretty much the same as the way that white politicians/generals were with the black soldiers. The black soldiers were killing and dying while the worst the white dudes had to face was grilling from Congress five years later. If that.

So no. Lincoln has a lot to answer for. That he does. But, I think as we learn more, we’ll probably be able to justify what he’s doing more (or, maybe, less) than Donovan is doing. Certainly killing racists sits better than…whatever Donovan is doing.

And yet, you have that blame angle, that societal blame angle mentioned above.

So even if they are equally culpable, they’re not being treated as equally culpable in the present. Which is saying something.

Feminina:

That is a very good point, that Donovan is chilling in front of a congressional committee or whatever, seeming not at all concerned about the potential consequences, whereas the FBI guy has been pursuing Lincoln for almost 50 years. As far as we know (so far), the FBI guy isn’t even aware of Donovan’s involvement–he seems to have just come in, played his part, and slipped away, leaving Lincoln as the symbol of all the destruction. And the fact that Lincoln is entirely willing to serve as this symbol doesn’t take away from the fact that it’s an inaccurate reading of the story, and lets one of the two fairly equal players off without responsibility.

Lincoln is the scary guy who gets the blame, even though Donovan (who did plan the boat wreck, as well as gathering all the information on every other target) is as much a monster as he is. Maybe moreso in that he gets to sit back trimming his nails, in the manner of plan guys everywhere, while the action guy takes the physical risks, gets the actual blood on his hands, and takes the moral blame. You mentioned how Donovan set up the wiring but couldn’t be bothered to actually attach the explosives, or whatever, and leaving that for Lincoln to do…that seems like another careful distancing from direct responsibility.

“I gave him the gun, but I never pulled the trigger. I set up some wires, but I never hooked up the C4 or pushed the button. I told him where his enemies were, but I never actually killed any of them myself.” Donovan doesn’t want to get his hands dirty, and as far as we’ve seen, he never does: he keeps just far enough in the background, all the time.

And you’re right, that does have a very pointed social angle to it, because it seems entirely likely that that’s exactly what WOULD happen. Hm.

Butch:

And did, in the war(s). And in countless other endeavors this country has seen. Indeed, did you hear the Voice’s take on how Black people built the theme park? And built New Orleans? And, like, America? All while white folks didn’t get their hands dirty?

After all, there’s some parallel between Lincoln and Donovan in terms of perceived threat and Lincoln and the Marcanos, or even Kevin for that matter. The Marcanos are killing dudes. Kevin is hanging out, heavily armed, everywhere. Marcanos guys are loan sharking, killing dudes in slaughterhouses then trashing their bodies, extorting construction workers and union laborers, etc. But who are people afraid of? The “Killer black man.” They happily come down to Uncle Lou’s for happy hour, but when a black guy does stuff? Fear. One could think that Donovan could open a pub called “Donovan’s finest Ales” and it would do fine. No one would be afraid. Cuz he isn’t “scary,” if you know what I mean.

Shit, maybe FBI guy DOES know about Donovan, but doesn’t care. He’s so focused on the scary black man, and will be happy busting the scary black man, letting the veteran go (protecting the white veteran at the expense of the black one…hmm…where has that come up?)

Feminina:

Yeah, the “scary guy.”

We’ve talked plenty about white fear of black men, and whether Lincoln is intentionally using it to spook his targets, and how even if it is kind of useful to him it can rebound on other people…it can definitely also be the case that Donovan is using it too, relying on it to keep everyone’s attention focused on the (scary, black) action guy, letting the (harmless-looking, suit-wearing, white) plans guy keep to the shadows and take basically none of the fall.

If Donovan (or, say, Vito, or Burke) goes after the Marcanos on his own, it’s a gang war. Nobody in power is happy about that, really, there’s violence in the streets and all, bad for business…but it’s essentially a gang matter, and doesn’t threaten the social order. Because Lincoln does it, it’s a race war, and everyone freaks out: he challenges not just the gangs, but white control of the city, indeed, the rightful place of white people at the top of the hierarchy.

And if Donovan helped Burke or Vito–which we imagine he could theoretically have done, since they had legitimate gripes against the Marcanos and might have been moved to action by the offer to provide really good information and workable plans–it could have been harder for him to hide behind the shock value and the news draw of the SCARY BLACK MAN story and stay out of sight, where he apparently prefers to remain.

Of course, if/when anyone DOES find out he helped Lincoln, he can be seen as a race traitor as well as an accomplice to gang murders, so it’s kind of a trade-off, but apparently, as we’ve repeatedly noted, he’s not too concerned about that. I guess as long as he’s facing congress instead of the Southern Union, he figures he can handle it. Like him, these are guys who don’t want to get their own hands dirty.

Butch:

He figures he can. That he can.

Though it’s hard to say who exactly he IS facing, Congress wise. It’s no accident that the senator who is the most interested in him is explicitly southern (is he from Louisiana? I forget) and, therefore, possibly from the Southern Union himself, something that Donovan would likely know.

But, on the other hand, his testimony was, until recently, classified. We still don’t know why. And he’d likely know THAT, too. He’d know that his testimony wouldn’t see the light of day.

So, is he talking freely? Or to someone behind the scenes?

Feminina:

Also good questions! Who is Donovan really talking to?

And another question: is he ACTUALLY getting off as free as he seems to thinks he is?

He acts all calm and confident, but we don’t actually know that this attitude is warranted. As you say, his primary interrogator is southern (I can’t remember if it’s specifically Louisiana either). For all we know, he was quietly murdered in a dark alley the day after this testimony was recorded, because whatever connections he counted on to protect him were done with him.

Based on his confidence and the resources he’s able to bring to Lincoln’s problem, we can guess he’s got real support from somewhere to accomplish something, but there’s no guarantee that will last once his usefulness on that something is done.

Butch:

Well, it is something that we haven’t seen Donovan in the “present.” That testimony was in 1971. And, while he could just be dead of some natural thing in 2007, maybe not.

Feminina:

Dead of natural (or at least unrelated) causes, or else alive and refusing to comment.

“I said what I had to say back in 1971. Now get off my lawn, you punk documentarian game-makers!”

Butch:

Hmm. Also true.

Man this game. When it’s good it’s so good. But….

Feminina:

So much bloggage! And then some long, quiet times where we just kill a bunch of Kevins over and over.

It’s the circle of life.

Butch:

This could have been a great game. Period.

I have no idea why they decided to do what they did to it.

Feminina:

Well…it’s a game, and it was probably supposed to be a certain length, and it needed enough recognizable game elements to get it there…and a lot of people probably wouldn’t have bought something that was straight-up called “A Meditation on Race Relations and Social Injustice in the American South in the 1960s”…I’m sure you have to balance a lot of competing demands, making games.

Butch:

But even without Kevin all over, there’s s lot of GAME. And some Kevin is ok. But why SO much?

Especially when the not repetitive levels are so good. Riverboat. Amusement park. Quarry. That’s more than just a rumination.

And why be long? We’ve played AAA games that aren’t 60 hours and been more than happy.

Balancing elements often leads to clutter.

Feminina:

We have been happy with more concise games, we have. But I wonder if there’s a sort of assumption, in game consumers generally, that if a game isn’t really big, it’s not…you know…a Big Game. Worth the price, and the serious consideration, of a Big Game.

I mean, I’m not arguing with you about whether or not they made the right call (from our perspective, and even in general based on the numerous complaints about repetition). Sure, it could have been shorter and more focused and that would have given the more intense story bits–more intensity!

But I can see where, when you’re in the middle of making the thing, maybe it seems like that’s not the right answer. Or maybe even if it seems like the right answer to some people, maybe they get overruled by other people who say “no, it needs to be a 60-hour Big Game! Put in more stuff to do or people will feel cheated!”

I feel like I can imagine how it happens, is all I’m saying.

Butch:

Oh, no doubt they did. Games, in general, seem to be suffering from a desire to be many things to many people, but that often leads to being a jack of all trades, master of none.

And it makes SOME sense. After all, games are expensive as hell. You can’t make a game that’s TOO niche, or you’re gonna lose money. It’s easy to forget that they are an art form, yes, but also a product. I get that. But there have been very successful single player games that don’t try to be all things. TW3. Horizon. God of War (so I hear). Uncharted. Those didn’t give everyone this sandbox thing, and people liked them, and they made money.

It’s a tough balance.

And it may well get worse. After all, games have, if you figure in for inflation, gotten MUCH cheaper. A AAA game has been 60 bucks for many, many years. Shit, I think I paid 50 bucks for text only games back in the 80s. 50 bucks in 1985 is a lot more than 60 bucks today. So games are getting cheaper as they get more expensive to make. Either a) they’ll get cheaper to make, which is unlikely, b) they’ll start charging more for them, which no one will like or c) they’ll keep trying to broaden their potential customer base by being too damn big.

One hope I have is the advent of digital. Used games have a lot to answer for. Yes, people bitch about not being able to sell discs and all that, but if more people had to buy their stuff new, then that’s more money for the developers, which might solve some of this problem.

Well, good thing I played cuz I’m unlikely to play for a while. Seems we have a bit of a bat problem in the house, so we’ve evacuated to my mom’s house until we’ve dealt with it. Hopefully home by next week.

Why’d you buy a house?

But I did do a lot! We’ll talk. Later.

Feminina:

Bat! What? I do not need to hear about more problems with houses! I have enough!

Bats are cute, though. Eat bugs. Useful.

Carry rabies. Less cute. Good luck with that.

I played a bit! Not that much. It was chilly. Kids were cranky. Waking up at ungodly hours of the morning because they were chilly. Makes one too tired to stay up at night murdering dudes.

But I did murder a few! Obviously. “When you’re tired of murdering dudes, you’re tired of life.” I think that’s how the saying goes.

Butch:

I have to cling to that.

Bats are not cute. They certainly aren’t cute when they’re freaking your kids out at 10 PM and costing you money and making you stay at nana’s.

This is a new problem, even for me.

I mean….shit.

Anyway…..

Took over the distillery, about to do protection, if I ever get home.

But the thing I did do, and then didn’t do, was great, then pissed me off.

Went and did the nice, mellow dope mission. Then went and stole a dope boat. This led to two very, VERY cool conversations with Emmanuel, who is a great, great character. The idea of bad people still killing bad dudes, family, again, loss, winding up selling weed because life kinda sucks, the contrast between Haitian black and African American….that shit was GOLD. We could blog on that for days. Indeed, we might need to. It was so good I wanted to do more of it. Emmanuel was great! He was developing! So when he said “There’s a bunch of Dixie mafia “guarding” a warehouse full of our stolen weed, go get it,” I was all “You got it dude! Especially if we can talk later.”

So I went to do it. Only to see “Racket is at maximum earn.”

To which I said two things. First, “Huh? There’s, like, eight more perks I want here. I’m DONE with Cassandra? Why’d they even GIVE me this quest?” Followed by “Fuck, game, really? You’re gonna do it again? FINALLY we have some great, themey, story bloggage and you are, once again, going to grind things to a damn halt for no real reason other than to make me go do stuff I don’t want to do?”

This game just can’t get the fuck out of its own way, can it?

Feminina:

Wasn’t Emmanuel great? What good conversations, and, as you say, really great character development and recognition of how different people in different situations have very different takes on things. Very well-played. Way to not just make a game about a black guy, but put a number of other black people in as well, and let them have different motivations and beliefs!

We’re also seeing a couple more women, which is nice. And there was a pretty good conversation with Nicki Burke after one of those “grab some stuff and take it to a place” missions. So even though those missions are fairly rote, they have some theme/story payoff which makes them worth doing.

I don’t know about maximum earn, though…I don’t think I got that message. I’m not sure I tried to do the warehouse full of weed mission, though. Maybe if I had, I would have run into the same issue. Maybe…later in the game you can advance the whole racket somehow and not be hitting ‘maximum earn’? I mean, one imagines maximum earn should be a good thing, not a roadblock.

Butch:

Well, must be a later thing cuz her earn is 100k, and on the handy perks list, I’m getting her 100k perk. But it goes up to perks you get when her earn is 300k, which is, you know, more.

I got the warehouse mission (or didn’t) immediately after the “steal the boat” mission, which was the second weed mission. (Side note: speeding away, in a hail of bullets, in a stolen boat while blaring Born to be Wild was more gleeful fun than I’ll ever admit.). I’ve had the “don’t tell me about loss” bit and the “how many you save?” Bit. You get that? Cuz I hav thoughts on that.

Game has too many roadblocks.

I can’t do Nikki missions yet cuz I haven’t killed the butcher. But I want to. Still intrigued that a) we saw her present day and b) she wasn’t in jail in the present and c) she sure seemed to hate her old man

Hmmm.

Feminina:

I got “don’t talk to me about loss.” Which…yeah. Don’t talk to that guy about loss. There’s some heavy stuff in this game.

Haven’t had the second conversation yet. Too busy murdering dudes and talking to Nicki Burke, I guess. (Is there some chemistry there?…I dunno…feels like maybe there is…)

Speaking of the documentary and how she shows up there…we haven’t talked about another interesting aspect of this game’s presentation, which is the use of actual photographs (of soldiers in Vietnam, or mobsters, or what-have-you) interspersed with the character animations.

What do we think about that? It’s a little distracting to me every time, to have the contrast of real image with the animation, but I also think it kind of grounds the game in reality…like, “this story is fiction, but stuff that characters are talking about was in fact happening in the real world, and here are pictures.” It also works interestingly with those collectibles (not just the nudity, but also Hot Rod), which also feature real-life photos and articles. “Here’s some stuff that was out there in the world at this time.”

I’m basically into it. Again, I do NOTICE it every time, because however good it is, animation–which I find is serviceable here if not always stunning (though one thing I’ve noticed is that this game has I think the best drinking animations I’ve seen, and that is obviously extremely important)–is never quite as REAL as an actual photograph, and so the contrast is always obvious. It always pulls me a little out of the story just because I’m not thinking about the story anymore, I’m thinking “hey, that’s a real picture of some dead mobster,” but…I’m pretty OK with it overall.

Butch:

Heavy, indeed. And something that turns the player’s perception of hero on its head. We’re all “Must avenge Sam and Ellis! They were my FAMILY, man!” And this dude is all (accurately) “Uh, they were criminals. MY family is worth avenging and you are….where?” Which is a pretty good point. On a couple levels. First, the micro level: we’re killing Kevin to avenge bad guys, not his family. But also on the macro level. He went to Vietnam, not Haiti. Bad shit was happening in Haiti. And Lincoln was a world away.

Dunno about chemistry, man. More on that in a second.

But dude….get that other conversation. We’ll talk. Later.

Plus, stealing boats is fun.

I kinda like the use of real photos. And no, not just cuz playboys. Documentaries often use different levels of picture quality, so I find it makes it more real, in a way. Especially as they sometimes go with a “less real” look than the basic game animation. We get those grainy “home movies” from time to time, or the “old film” of Donovan testifying, which are pretty cool, and I think it all comes together.

And the centerfolds are key.

You really should go talk to Emmanuel again.

Anyway, I found that, once the bat guys leave and you have 45 minutes to kill before Junior gets home, better get some playing in! So I did. Killed Sonny Blue (more on THAT in a bit), and the Butcher. About to talk to Nikki. Which I haven’t. Don’t spoil.

So I killed Sonny. Not so much for the money, but cuz he was particularly awful. I thought that level was great, and one thing that stood out was finding that dead guy who had been tortured, who I THINK was a guy I could have saved (wasn’t there a “if we pull poor (guy) out of there he’ll give us info?” Cuz I didn’t do that. And now I feel guilty). But it got me thinking, re “max earn”:

Earn seems to be a proxy for XP. More quests completed (side or main), more earn. More earn, more “perks,” or skills, or whatever you want to call them. In other words, more of the stuff games usually give you cuz of XP.

But the game gives you a choice: $1000 of money or $2000 of earn. And money is good. You can unlock guns, upgrade guns, etc. So the game is saying “Ok, good job. You finished a quest. Now CHOOSE: Gear or skills? Loot or XP?”

And that’s cool. Cuz often games GIVE you one, the other or both, but I can’t remember a game that keeps making you choose between a reward that would be better gear OR better skills, up to you, not both.

This game does so very much well. I’m STILL liking it more than I thought I would.

Feminina:

I think there was a guy you could pull out of there…it was an ‘Informant’ mission, I think. I did sneak in and free him and kill everyone around, and then was mildly peeved when I had to kill them all over again when I went back. Oh well.

Anyway, the point is, there was still a dead guy tied to a chair even though I went in after the other guy, so I think maybe that was just going to happen.

Although if you didn’t save the informant, he’s certainly dead but just, you know, inside an alligator as opposed to tied to a chair, so…maybe that’s not really comforting knowledge. You should still feel guilty, is my point now.

Immediate loot vs. earn is an interesting choice. I always take earn, though. Recruit everyone! EVERYONE MUST WORK FOR MEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!! (They don’t have to love me, though…Lincoln doesn’t give a damn whether people love him or not.)

But yeah, very good character and theme development, with the contrast between Haiti and Vietnam, and where both these guys were dealing with the different things they were dealing with…and of course Lincoln was in Vietnam and not in Haiti because the U.S. government cared about Vietnam (at least politically) but not about Haiti, so, you know, we cared about the spread of communism on the other side of the world but not about atrocities relatively next door.

Another interesting bit–have you been listening to the radio segments from “Native Son” on the story of Hollis Dupree? Interesting, still incredibly topical.

Butch:

I have heard those! And contrasted them with the “Voice,” who also is an interesting take.

Very cool stuff.

Which….

Sometimes I say to my kids “You know, when you’re bad, it’s especially frustrating because I know you know how to be good.” I want to say this to this game a lot.

Spoilers for the Mission, Norah and Dragon’s Hideout chapters in Beyond: Two Souls

Butch:

Well, I got nothing cuz crazy family. An emotional eleven year old will seriously hurt gaming time. And sanity.

But I do have a gripe.

So the kid in the mission. Turns out his dad is working with the president there, right? Ergo, it is not a stretch to say the kids dad is a Kevin, right? And yet, when Jody is all “I have to get to that tower where your Kevin father is, killing other Kevins all the while,” the kid is all “yeah, cool. Glad to help.”

And then he’s all mad when Jody kills all the Kevins.

So there, with Jody barfing cuz she killed dudes (huh?) and the kid being all “Kevin! No!” None of it makes sense.

And that’s annoying. That’s supposed to be a pivotal scene, and it’s totally contrived.

Which begs the question: in a game where the WHOLE thing is story (there’s no significant gameplay here), are we allowed to be angrier with narrative bullshit than we’d be in a game with some story, but a focus on gameplay, like, say, tr?

Cuz the more I think about this level, the angrier I get. Which is never a good sign.

Feminina:

Yeah, I wondered about that too. What did the kid think Jodie was trying to do? What was HE trying to do?

Maybe he was trying to get to safety/his dad and thought Jodie was just trying to help him? This assumes that all the people trying to stop you both from approaching his dad/the president were on the ‘wrong’ side and he was totally cool with killing them, and there did appear to have been at least two different factions involved in the fighting here, but I don’t know how he (or we) could have told the difference since they weren’t wearing different uniforms or anything.

Best I can spin it, cutting the story slack and reading between the lines and all, the kid was trying to get to his dad who he knew was guarding the lawfully elected president, and he figured this foreigner (maybe he could even tell she was American from the accent) was interested in protecting the lawfully elected president because Americans are so dedicated to democracy and all. So he thought she was trying to help the president and thus his dad, and that’s why his outrage is all the more bitter when it turns out the heroic American is actually there to assassinate the lawfully elected president.

Because we kind of glossed over that part of the discussion, didn’t we? The horrible betrayal of Jodie and of American ideals? Perhaps because we’re too jaded ourselves (or just jaded enough), and assume that OF COURSE America is a huge hypocrite about democracy and really only thinks it’s a good idea if the right person (for America) gets elected.

I mean, didn’t your suspicion-meter go off right at the beginning, when Ryan was explaining the mission as “this guy must be stopped because he’s preventing all our humanitarian aid from getting through?” At that moment I was thinking “haha dude, I totally buy that the CIA’s main priority is humanitarian aid, sure. What’s your REAL angle?”

But Jodie, apparently, believed it, and so I accepted it briefly for her sake as “well, even if I’m skeptical that the real CIA cares that much, I suppose that could be the motivation of the game-CIA.” And then I was merely proved right to have been skeptical, but Jodie was genuinely upset to find out she’d been used to assassinate a legitimate foreign leader. (As one would be, I imagine.) So it works for her character, as a sheltered person raised by the government more or less, and believing all the nice things a country says about itself, who then has a really hard break from that belief, and abandons it all to wind up on the streets with Stan and Company. Running away seems like a reasonable response for a basically decent person.

And maybe that kid was meant to be a bit like her, right? Maybe he also believed the nice things America says about itself, or used to say about itself, and his (justified) horror and disillusionment are then kind of the first stage in Jodie’s own journey towards realization, and the attendant jaded bitterness the rest of us enjoy.

So…in that light, I can kind of forgive the kid part of the story.

I still can’t forgive the “oh my god what have I done?” vomiting moment, though. It’s way too late at that point for a big “I have become a killer” realization.

Butch:

Maybe…uh…hmm. The problem with that is, at the end there, pretty much everyone, including the kid, is anti Jody. There were no factions. Which means either a) your logic is illogical or b) killing the president united everyone, that wasn’t so bad, we’re heroes.

Or…something.

Yeah….we’ll go with his outrage being about democracy. Cuz there’s nothing else to go with.

We glossed on that, yes. But I forgive our gloss as this game is playing with many themes, yes, but patriotism and what it means isn’t really one of them. This game didn’t get you to be all “rah rah” only to have a “gotcha” moment. Parenting, caring for people (or not), protecting or stifling, that’s really what the game’s about. So betrayal of American ideals…that’s there, but it isn’t really what this game is doing. So we glossed. We’re cool.

Actually, the meter that tripped for me was “Shit, game really? Another trope? A Muslim warlord is the baddie and the Kevins are brown people speaking Arabic? REALLY?” I spent most of that scene rolling my eyes at the game, once again, being tropey.

And, let’s once again wonder: is the game being tropey cuz tropes, or are they intentionally playing with tropes? I wish you had played the bar scene, but you didn’t. But you DID play this, so we can look at the trope of “Brown skinned Muslim warlord is bad guy” that got flipped to “Why no, turns out brown skinned Muslim was a pretty good guy.”

I STILL can’t tell if I’m mad at this game or not! I HATE that!

And, well… I get the “kid journey towards realization” bit. That I’ll give you. The idea of “I thought this person was helping! She healed me!” only to find “Turns out the helpers weren’t helpers at all. They were using me.” THAT is a themey parallel. Not sure I’m buying the grand ideals about America, though.

Though…if we’re going with this…what do you make of her later finding, not one but two groups that America has pretty much fucked? The homeless and the Navajo? That’s two groups of American outcasts that were kind to her. There something to that? Especially when she’s wanted for, not murder, but treason?

And yeah, the vomiting was pretty lame.

Ok, just finished a home improvement project I’ve been meaning to do for years. YEARS! It involved sawdust. I’m sweaty and dirty. But you know what I figure I’ve earned?

GAMES!

Be back soon.

Feminina:

You deserve it! Game on!

And I agree, patriotism and the rightness or not of specific systems of government and so forth is not really a theme here. However, I think that government in a kind of general sense is relevant, as a larger version of the ‘family’ theme we’ve seen.

This is kind of just another step for Jodie of finding out that people don’t care about her, right?

“These are your parents and care about you, oh no actually they aren’t your parents and this guy actively hates you and this woman sort of cares but not enough to argue when they abandon you in a government facility.”

“These two particular scientists are dedicated to you and care about you, except it turns out that they can’t or won’t actually do anything when some other government agency comes and wants to take you away.”

“This guy accepts you and loves you, except he lied to you to get you to do something horrible.”

“This is your government and it cares about you and wants to do good things in the world, except actually it doesn’t care about you or good things at all.”

This was the final step for her–NOBODY cares about her as a person (except Aiden), and no one can be trusted to stand up for her (except Aiden). I think you’re right that this chapter is not some stinging indictment of American foreign policy or anything, but I think it IS meant to be a statement on how everything in society, from the family, to the idea of medicine/science, to a lover, to the government itself, has betrayed and/or failed Jodie at this point.

So she runs, and finds…other people who do care about her, and who, coincidentally (?) the government also doesn’t care about. I’m not sure if that’s really saying that government is evil and incapable of caring (government is after all composed of people, and Cole, at least, does seem to care about her as a person and tries to help her), but it’s certainly interesting.

And yes, yes, the “it’s been so done” brown, Arabic-speaking bad guys bit was good for a sigh, and then, as you say, kind of flipped at the end, when it turned out WE were the bad guys, so it’s hard to say if it was a trope, or was turning the trope around. We could argue that even the formulaic nature of the level, with all the not-very-tense sneaking and so forth, was meant to lull us into a sense of “yeah yeah, we’ve done this before, everything’s fine, I’m the good guy even though I’m killing all these people,” which is meant to make the eventual reveal more potent. The monster is me!

But I don’t know, at least SOME of them must have been actually bad guys. Or, you know, at least guys on different sides, and one of them was the president’s and therefore good (as it later turned out). Because as you say after we killed the president there were no factions (as far as we could tell), but there were at least significant enough differences of opinion before that, that some guys were dragging other guys around and shooting them in the street. And those people we stealthed past presumably weren’t patrolling for the fun of it, or just to give us something to sneak around (however it may have seemed at the time): they were ready for attack by someone.

Which I guess could have been the CIA for all we know, Ryan might also have lied about there not being any other Americans in the country, but if so that is not revealed to Jodie, and the news announcer did say that this newly elected president had been a hope for peace in a troubled land or whatever.

So I think there were factions, and I think we’re meant to believe that the people in the immediate area may have been briefly united in anger at Jodie for killing the president (I mean, I don’t like our president, but I still don’t want some foreign government coming in and assassinating him willy nilly), but not that a stable and functional government is going to coalesce around that rage.

Which would actually be fine if government is evil, probably these people in this war-torn land would be better off without it! Hm. Yeah, maybe they’re not exactly saying government is evil.

But certainly, it failed Jodie as a human in this moment.

Butch:

Hmm. Ok. I’ll go with that. Levels of not caring.

And another instance of “Wonder how that’d be if we played chronologically.”

Interestingly, you’re THINKING about it chronologically.

Maybe if they hadn’t done the timeline. Which’ll be for another day.

Maybe “the monster is me” is the reveal. But I still think you’re trying to stretch to justify this.

I think it’s best we move on from this level before you pull a muscle trying to explain/justify it.

Cuz I played!

And DAMMIT I was on such a roll that I was sure I was gonng be all “Femmy! Finished it!” But no.

So I bet you know where I got to.

Met mom. Killed mom. You? Figured she wanted out. Good scene.

Now…

Did you peek in on the others? Did you find the one that said “I SEE you Aiden….”

Which was creepy. But also rather intriguing in that he knew Aiden’s name. I always got the sense that Jody named Aiden herself. Here’s this thing that just goes brrrbgrrrb, and it needs a name, like a teddy bear does. So she picked Aiden.

But I guess not.

And that missable! Which is kinda cool. Did you get that?

Then I did ALL of Dragon’s Hideout! And figured “This is the END man! This feels BOSS FIGHT!” and I was happy! And then no, I’m a kid again, and I remembered that Dawkins has one of these, and the game isn’t over and DAMMIT.

But Dragon’s Hideout.

Also a rather actiony level. Though I think I liked it better than the mission, cuz it felt like more than killin’ Kevins.

So how’d you go?

I got out of the base. I told Ryan I was still mad, but kissed him anyway cuz he was about to die and all. And he died. Blew up the condenser, as one does.

Now…was the thing that killed the bad guy at the end there Aiden? Or some other thing from the rift?

Interesting thing about protection: Jody was supposed to kinda protect Ryan, right? She was powerful and all that. But I let him lose an eye, and he died, and I TOLD him I loved him but I didn’t really. More “I’ll protect you, and lie that I love you, then let you down entirely.” But this time it was Jody and, through choices, me. But only if you MADE those choices.

Which is kinda cool.

But I’m still not done and DAMMIT.

Cuz I see you played Captain Spirit. Done yet?

Feminina:

I didn’t peek in on the others! I should have. More false urgency. I went all over the place knocking out cameras so we wouldn’t be seen (and of course we were caught anyway), and then thought “gotta get to mom now now now!”

That’s EXTREMELY interesting that one of them saw and even recognized Aiden. How did that work, I wonder? Has Aiden been in touch with people using infraworld email or something? Or was he able to introduce himself somehow in that moment with a “hi I’m Aiden” message Jodie can’t understand? Hm.

But yes, I killed her. And took her necklace. Speaking of unexplained reactions, I really thought Jodie’s “oh mom it’s great to see you” response, as well as Norah’s “it’s so great to see YOU!” one, were a bit out of place considering they’ve never even met and know nothing about each other, but I suppose we can read that as partially wishful thinking (they each WANTED to feel that connection) as well as perhaps partially a genuine semi-mystical connection (after all, they both have some weird tie to the infraworld, so maybe they recognized each other immediately on a soul-deep level or something).

Anyway, I was willing to go with it.

Dragon’s Hideout…more interesting differences. I didn’t let them torture Ryan, I was just like “we work for the CIA and they want your condenser” or something, the minute they threatened him with the knife. Screw company loyalty, man. What has the CIA done for me but get me into messes? I’ll sing like a canary, I don’t care.

And I don’t know if that had anything to do with it, or not, but my Ryan survived. We both made it out, and the other two guys (in a frankly unexplained bit of convenient timing) picked us up on the ice while we were lying there waiting to freeze to death. I didn’t kiss him or tell him I loved him, I don’t even remember that being an option, but I did save his life, so maybe he was content with that. He’d better be.

I also kind of liked that level. Even though you still couldn’t die, it felt tenser to me than the pseudo-shooter Mission chapter and the setting was interesting, running around the underwater base, and having to go blow up the condenser was kind of fun. (An underwater bit where you didn’t have to swim! They’re looking out for you, man.)

And that fish-ghost or whatever it was that was chasing people around, that thing was creepy…and no, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t supposed to be Aiden, it was something that came out of their condenser. Some ancient predator spirit? Unclear. But it was into impaling people in a timely fashion before they could kill me, and I appreciated that.

Dude, how did you kill Ryan?

Butch:

I did the cameras too! But that made me think “Ok, we’re cool. Gonna explore.”

With the guy recognizing Aiden, you just go in and he was all “I seeeeee you Aiden…..” all creepy and shit. But looking off into the middle distance, so it seemed “see” meant more “sense.”

The other patients weren’t too specific. Voices in heads, etc. One saying over and over “I have to notice the details, every detail…”

But “I see you Aiden” sure stood out.

I got that she and her mom had some mystical connection. Though, on that, I got in my stats “Leaned your father’s name,” to which I said “Huh? Missed that…..” What’s my father’s name?

On the torture, I was just more like “why save that guy? That guy was a schmuck. Lied to me, left me sobbing, alone in bed, whatever.” He can live with only one eye.

Seriously. Eww.

Maybe he didn’t die though. Cuz we were sitting there waiting to die, and he got all quiet, and he said “See you on the other side,” and then the guys showed up. Dunno. Might be dead.

He told me he loved me, and asked if I was mad, and I said yes. Then he asked all “Do you love me?” and really, how can you break a guy’s heart when he’s about to die? I mean, hardly any commitment there. So I was all “Yes,” and we smooched and then maybe he died or maybe he didn’t.

But now I’m not sure I did kill him. He was just all “See you…shiver…on the other side….shiver….” and got all still and dudes showed up. Maybe he’s ok.

In which case, I kinda regret my choice on the love thing, because now there’s gonna be awkwardness.

Always more awkward when you try to let a guy down easy and he survives.

T SHIRT!!!!!

Dude, the minute I saw water my heart sank. I was SO mad. And then so relieved.

Much tenser than the psuedo-shooter. MUCH. Wonder why. Maybe because it didn’t look so much like a shooter? More removed?

Was that the ghost fish that impaled the guy? I couldn’t tell. Maybe. I read it as maybe Aiden.

But wasn’t that ghost fish the same thing that we had to deal with in the desert there? I think it was.

Feminina:

Oh yeah, he’s probably still alive then.

“I’m…dying…I…love…you…Psych! You love me! You said it! Now you have to marry me and bear my children and assassinate my enemies.”

I feel like maybe Cole told me my father’s name before we went in? As you no doubt recall, there was one of those conversations where you know you aren’t going to get to cover all the possible options, so you have to really pick what you want to ask about. I think one of them was “father.” He said something like “he died before you were born” and that was pretty much it. I don’t remember what the name was, precisely, because as soon as I heard he was dead I thought “OK, that’s one thing I’m not going to have to follow up on, file as irrelevant” but I think it was mentioned.

I don’t think the fish-ghost was the same as the spirit in the desert. This one looked a lot more…fishy to me. A ghost ichthyosaur was what I thought of, with big teeth and a long tail. Whereas the one in the desert seemed to have claws that it would kind of stab into the ground, and a more wolflike face. To the extent that it had a face.

I think probably they were meant to be similar TYPES of creature, big scary old spirits from the netherworld–sorry, I mean infraworld, so very clever that that means exactly the same thing–but I don’t think they were actually the same being.

Oh, and about Captain Spirit: I have not finished it. It’s not long, though. Give me a couple of days.

Butch:

Yeah, cuz then it’s even more awkward if you’re all “Uh…I was lying” and he’s all “Wait, the last thing you wanted me to see on this earth was you lying to me?????”

No good off ramp on that road.

Yeah! There was no name. I remember the “died before you were born” bit. Whatever.

Ichthyosaur? For real? You thought THAT?

Of course you did.

Captain Spirit any good? I want to get to it this week.

Feminina:

What’s wrong with thinking of ichthyosaurs?! It’s a completely valid impression. I mean, aside from the fact that I kept calling it ‘fishy’ and they were actually reptiles. That’s a classification error for sure.

“Uh…well…see I meant it at the TIME, right? I loved you IN THAT MOMENT, because we’d just gone through so much together and it was so intense and I was just so glad we were both alive. But now in the cold light of not having narrowly escaped death moments ago, I’ve realized we’re not right for each other. I’d only hurt you. Probably by letting Aiden accidentally choke you to death next time you lied to me about a mission. Oops, did I say that out loud?”

Butch:

Nothing wrong with ichthyosaurs. Nothing at all.

You’ve just been watching too much Dinosaur Train.

I’ve gotten out of SO many awkward situations with that whole “My invisible double soul will likely kill you” excuse. Always makes people just skitter away! Remarkably successful.

I mean, sometimes they ask about my medication first, but then they leave, so it’s all good.

Feminina:

I resent the implication that I need Dinosaur Train to make me think of ichthyosaurs. I was a dinosaur-obsessed child myself, you know. I remember things.

I forgot something about bioware games: There are times when you need a good hour and a half to run around your ship/castle/campsite to move things along a little bit, but you don’t actually finish anything or feel like you’ve done anything.

This was last night.

I ran around the nexus for a good hour and a half. I got about 39827198274 tasks. (Sadly, I got hops for the dude at the vortex, and I think the quest bugged, cuz it just has two green checks, doesn’t say complete, won’t give me anything new to do. No more booze? WAAA!) I did Drack until I had to go to a planet I haven’t found. I got the AI one (the virus that attacked SAM), which was pretty awesome, and did it until I had to wait for an email.

In short, I got a lot of stuff that I think will make good bloggage when I finish it, which will happen….sometime.

Bioware, man.

So an hour and a half and all I finished was one buggy booze task, and First Murderer. Which was pretty interesting, and I have a feeling it’s a decision that will come back.

I freed the guy, and I immediately regretted it. Kudos to the game for making me really think about it. Ryder would have done the same. Love that sort of thing, the line blurring.

I also am nervous, as I met Cora, Liam and Drack and not Suvi. I’m not missing an opportunity to flirt, am I?

Feminina:

Oh yeah, those times when you just spend an entire evening running around talking to people and not getting anywhere concrete. Which sometimes I don’t mind, honestly, because there are days when I’m maybe not that much in the mood to shoot things but still want to play, so wandering around the wherever chatting is just fine.

And then there are those times when you spend an entire evening just getting in fights with randits and also not getting anywhere concrete. One doesn’t always accomplish significant things.

I haven’t seen Suvi on the Nexus yet. Maybe she doesn’t like to socialize outside of work.

I THINK we’re supposed to find other booze ingredients in random locations during our travels and bring them back? So the quest line is blank because it’s not telling us where to go, but at some point we’ll find something that we’ll be prompted to take back there? I don’t know, it hasn’t happened yet for me either, but that was my assumption.

I also had the First Murderer freed rather than executed. I mean…he didn’t actually kill the guy. Even if he meant to, and tried to, his shot didn’t do it. The rule of law has to mean something, man! Here in these uncharted skies, if we can’t follow the basic rules of justice, what do we have?

At the same time, I also am deeply uncertain whether this was the right call. One could also easily argue that attempting to kill the guy was sufficient, that we have to take a stand and show that sort of thing isn’t tolerated…instead, that would-be murderer is now out there free and possibly seething with resentment at his mistreatment and will probably turn up later as a pirate or something. So yeah, now I kind of think I should have let the director execute him.

The thing is, our choices were constricted: it was basically “carry on and pretend we still think he killed the guy” or “acknowledge he didn’t and let him go.” If there’s been a choice for “acknowledge he didn’t, clear him of murder but retry him for the attempted murder,” I think that would obviously have been the way we both would have gone. Because attempted murder is plainly still frowned upon!

I just didn’t want to support the pretense that the sentence as applied was based on the best evidence. I guess in the end it was really more about my dedication to the evidence, than it was to the principle of “that guy technically didn’t kill anyone.”

Sentence him to death for TRYING to kill his superior officer, and I won’t necessarily argue with it, but don’t sentence him for murder when he didn’t succeed, and then pretend we don’t know he didn’t succeed. I blame the director for putting us in that tough position, really. That guy is morally iffy for sure.

I dunno. It was a tough one.

Butch:

Off the grid. Watching kids end of summer day.

Feminina:

Ooh, sounds like a blast! Woohoo, party, etc.

Butch:

No ice cream. Failure.

Feminina:

Wait, what?! NO ICE CREAM?!

Burn the place to the ground.

Butch:

With all the rockets going off with very few precautions, might not have to.

Can’t talk long. There’s a beta of Gwent on the PS4. Was nice knowing you. Tell my family I love them.

Ha.

But I played last night. Just mopped up some side quests. Got some dreamwillow for a dude, gave signal arrows to a young dude, as one does. Once again, the level thing lies. That dream willow was a level seven. It had a sawtooth in a place with no cover. I died three times. I’m level 15. I died three times. It wasn’t seven, cuz I died three times. Three times.

Lies.

But got themes: Once again, in the dream willow quests, we see outcasts as rather practical, decent guys. They just needed something, they left shards, etc. We see the braves as..well..kinda assholes. That dude who was locked in the lodge there was an asshole. They’re haughty, they believe in weird stories, they have very draconian laws, they’re difficult to like. And they’re the religious, or at least the spiritual ones. Those who have been “outcast from the mother” are far nicer and far more practical. They take care of each other. They’re fair.

Now do I feel this way because I’m a godless secular pinko liberal? Or is the game really trying to make a point here? Or both?

Feminina:

We had a good run. Gwent comes for us all in the end.

That’s a good question…is the game making a point about outcasts vs. the religious ‘insiders,’ or are we just reading into it because we’re godless pinko liberals desperately seeking the validation we don’t get from God?

I dunno, man. I do wonder if it might be that the ‘religion’ aspect is less what they’re trying to make a point about than the ‘hidebound smalltown society’ aspect in general…there’s a long (almost inescapable, really) tradition of the conventional rule-followers in a story being less appealing than the bold, freethinking loners who just don’t fit in, and it’s not always as much about religion (although religion arguably underlies much of the moralizing) as it is about wanting to do your own thing.

Also, of course, it could be both!

Butch:

It’s always tough with our biases.

But this isn’t the “rule followers” and the “free thinkers.” I mean, we ALWAYS have the option to ask an outcast “So why are you outcast?” and it’s never “Well, I asked during the atonement hymn if it was worth it cuz the all mother doesn’t exist.” It’s always stealing, assault, murder, etc. They’re always what even we’d call criminals in our society. They’re not breaking some weird future/primitive law/creed. They’re breaking the same laws we have here in 21st century America, laws that even we pinko liberals are ok with.

I mean, in the dreamwillow bit, the outcast admits that he beat a man almost to death over a dispute over who had rights to a killed animal. That isn’t nice at all. That’s not some poor free thinker. That’s a criminal. We have no reason to believe that the brave who was in the lodge was a criminal. He seemed to be an upstanding member of society, but for being an asshole.

And yet the dude who beats people over property disputes (not the hippy dippy thinker who is just so misunderstood cuz religion) is the appealing one. Or the more appealing one.

And he’s ALSO the one that isn’t pious.

Feminina:

It’s true, outcasts (aside from Aloy herself, and maybe Rost because who even knows about Rost) seem to be outcast for legitimate reasons. It’s also not usually a permanent state, as we noted before, but seems to be more of a limited sentence: beat up a guy over a hunt, outcast for 10 years. Which even without the backup judgement of God, I am basically OK with.

So here’s a thought: maybe the game is showing that this system actually works.

The entirety of Nora society, including the outcasts (who for the most part are expected to one day fully rejoin the group), basically functions well: the fact that criminals are presented as essentially sympathetic may be saying that criminals can be rehabilitated and welcomed back into society, and that’s good. (Meanwhile, law-abiding citizens can be jerks, reminding us that nobody’s perfect.)

Which means, maybe, that however silly we and Aloy find their religion, the Nora do in fact have a perfectly good thing going, and maybe we should cut them some slack because they’re doing something that works for them in the world.

Butch:

Exactly. This isn’t some arbitrary “throw the mages into a tower/burn them just cuz they’re different” thing. Nora society is being fairly reasonable. Hell, as you say, some sentences are finite. This isn’t some witcher society where you do one thing wrong they’re likely to hang you.

Perhaps we’re meant to notice the Nora are doing OK….but then, you have seen a variable I have not: Other societies in this world. Sure, I met friendly flirty guy, and the dude with the focus who was a bad guy, and the killers, of course, but I want to see Meridian/whatever else the game has in store. Always easier to judge a story’s dynamic with three data points.

Feminina:

Well, even in DA mages aren’t in towers because they’re different, they’re in towers because they’re freaking dangerous.

True, though. Comparing this society to others will be instructive. Pretty much all we know about the Carja early on is that they raided the Nora for sacrifices for years because their previous king thought that would appease the machine gods, or something.

Speaking of religion.

And then there are the Oseram, who scavenge in the ruins (my kind of people!), and one of whom was a bad guy who did bad things.

I may have only just gotten to Meridian last night. So many things to see on the way! So much to magpie!

Butch:

Yeah I don’t know a whole lot about other folks, and what I do know comes from Nora folks who are understandably biased, what with that whole being captured for slaves and slaughtered business. That can affect your opinions of folks.

Dude, I thought you got to Meridian two weeks ago. That’s A LOT of magpie!

Feminina:

Yes, it is. A LOT of magpie. I can’t help myself! I tried, but I was constitutionally incapable of not magpieing.

Thanks for nothing, game that didn’t cut me off for my own good after all.

Well, I guess thanks for all the magpie trinkets. I enjoyed those.

Butch:

Dude I TRIED to magpie and couldn’t find the damn mug! At least you have mugs to commemorate your magpieing! I have nothing! NOTHING!

The side quests, on the other hand, are impossible to resist.

Feminina:

Oh, I found the mug. Helpful tip: it was in a pile of ancient debris.

Another helpful tip: it turns out if you infiltrate a glinthawk nesting area to get a metal flower, and snatch it and then promptly die, you will still have the flower when you respawn back at the campfire. That was a relief.

Grab the loot! You CAN take it with you!

Butch:

T SHIRT!

And very good to know.

But dude, I refuse to accept there was debris. I scanned every damn inch of that white circle and nothing, I mean nothing, popped. Not even a damn turkey. Debris shows up on focus.

But now, of course, I’ll go back and check. I have to go there to helpfully find some dude’s ring anyway. It’s a level 10 quest, I believe, so I’ll either have to kill a turkey or 27 sawtooths (sawteeth? We REALLY have to figure that out) but, obviously, nothing in between.

Feminina:

Ah yes, the ring. I remember the ring.

And that white circle, that’s another way this game messes with you. Because half the time, whatever you’re looking for is pretty much exactly where it shows up on the map, so you just walk there and oh, hey, there it is! And the other half of the time it’s just randomly somewhere inside the white circle, probably, but not by the map icon!

I like to imagine it’s because half the time the map-maker was drunk. “I sheem to recall it was around thish area shomewhere…” [passes out]

We should really be showing a little more sympathy for this poor dude or lady, who probably has some serious personal issues driving this excessive self-medication.

Butch:

Yes, the ring.

What can I say? I can’t say no. No, I mean, the game does not give me the option to say no. So I either have to be mute, have a cluttered quest list (which I HATE) or find the damn rings.

Drunkenness…So true of so many map makers. Shit, they can’t even FILL IN the map half the time. I have all these useless white circles that are in places where the map is still clouds.

“Go there.” Uh, where’s there? “Fuck if I know. I have no idea of where the roads are, the topography, or the hazards you will face. But I am CERTAIN about the mug. Well, it’s SOMEWHERE in that circle….”

And they’re probably very upset that all they want is a damn drink and they seem to have lost all their damn mugs.

Feminina:

It’s true! You literally cannot say no! (Though I wonder if maybe you could just hit circle to get out of the conversation without committing? I haven’t tried.)

I mean, it’s not as if you were going to anyway…but you CAN’T!

The game is saying “Aloy is nice and helpful, damn it. Don’t you even try to argue with us on this.”

In so many games you have that “I don’t have time for this” dialogue option. Not here. Aloy ALWAYS has time for this.

Which, when you think about it, as good as tells us that Aloy also always has time to magpie all over creation. Because clearly, she is just not in a big hurry. And why would she be? She’s achieved what she spent most of her life training for, and won the proving. She’s been given rare permission to go wherever she wants. Her beloved parent is dead, so it’s not as if she has anything to go back to. Why wouldn’t she take every opportunity to find rings, seek out mugs, visit campfires…it’s all just a chance to see the world!

Butch:

I kinda want to ignore a side quest in this one, just to do it. I don’t mind choosing to do everything, but DAMN game. I have enough things I have to do in real life. Sheesh.

She really does always have time. She really does. But then, there isn’t a big, imminent threat right now. Sure, the killers are bad. Bad bad bad. But they aren’t attacking all the time, there isn’t a rush to get a thing before they do (that I know of), there aren’t holes in the sky or ice dogs showing up everydamnwhere. We CAN chill. We’ll get around to the killers, I’m sure.

A chance to see the world, and find meaning. Which is easier to find than mugs.

Feminina:

Yes. Find meaning. Meaning is almost as cool as mugs. Man, now that I’m finally in Meridian, I can’t wait to exchange a set of mugs for a reward! Which will probably be a treasure box full of ridge-wood, but whatever.

Butch:

I’m sure it will be remarkable.

Feminina:

Ooh, do you think it could be? That would be SWELL!

Have you ever bought any ‘shard gambler’ boxes or anything? I’ve never bought a box, though I seem to accumulate plenty. I wonder if some of them have fish bones in them. I could use that.

Butch:

No but I found one last night! By the lodge with the asshole! Sort of like finding an unscratched lotto ticket in the parking lot!

Only had shards. But 32 of them!

Now I want a “swell reward box.”

Feminina:

Damn it, so do I.

But ooh, 32 shards! Not too shabby.

Maybe the guy in the lodge was being such a jerk because he was upset at having misplaced that box! Serves him right.