I've noticed that lately everyone seems to be bashing Jedi Outcast. What's wrong with you people!!! Jedi Outcast was an awesome game that everybody loved when it was released! It featured a halfway decent story, in the Star Wars Universe, following the life of the coolest mercenary Kyle Katarn.

First. It's not everyday that gamers are delivered a Star Wars title. JK2 wasn't just a "Star Wars" game, it was the *Fourth* game in a hit series. Outcast wasn't thrown together by ameratures either. Raven Software has been known for the outstanding quality they put into their games. I feel as though they didn't skimp or tone down their quality in Jedi Outcast either. They tweaked and enhanced the Quake 3: Team Arena engine so they could bring us the most realistic and remarkable Star Wars shooter ever. The game models, sounds, textures, and music, were all amazing and well constructed. The saber combat in Jedi Outcast was very well put together and Raven's polygon to polygon technology worked wonderfully.

Second, Raven and Lucasarts have tried to make Jedi Outcast even better by releasing patches that even out the multiplayer side of the game. But instead of thanking these guys for their efforts you bash them and call the patches garbage, and claim that they ruin the game. Before you know it, everyone starts bad-mouthing Jedi Outcast and Raven Software!

So it slips that there could be another "Jedi" game in the works. Do you appreciate their efforts inattempting an improved experience for another Kyle Katarn game. No you don't. Immeaditly you get on the bandwagon and start up the bashing and rock throwing.

We all loved Jedi Outcast, the Collectors Tin was the bomb, and the lightsaber combat hold a special place in our hearts. Think back to the Jedi trials when you finally earned your lightsaber. Think back to how you felt when you were fighting the Shadow Troopers in the arena. There are so many cool things about Jedi Outcast.

It seems that too many people have turned to the Dark Side and let the little problems of Jedi Outcast overshadow the game's good qualities.

Stop bashing Jedi Outcast, stop bashing Raven. Feel blessed that we get Star Wars games as often as we do, and count yourself lucky that they are as great as they are when released. Your moaning is a hinderance and won't help launch another title, which could very well be a turning point in Star Wars gaming history.

May the Force be with you.

Sapaca

shock ~ unnamed

03-11-2003, 04:30 AM

Great game, great companies, whiny players.
The best thing that could possibly happen for an expansion would be for the developers to set up some junk hotmail account and tell everyone to write to that address with any complaints they have.

Then never ever check it.
;)

But you are right and I’m glad there are people out there like yourself who do enjoy the game for what it is and hope to see more down the road.

Luc Solar

03-11-2003, 04:39 AM

If you had been around during the times 1.02 --> 1.03 times you wouldn't call this bashing. It's more like mild constructive criticism compared to old times. :D

But no - not everyone loved JO. I personally disliked many things about the SP...for example the plot (force crystals?!) and the puzzles.

Second, Raven and Lucasarts have tried to make Jedi Outcast even better by releasing patches that even out the multiplayer side of the game. But instead of thanking these guys for their efforts you bash them and call the patches garbage, and claim that they ruin the game.

Yeah.. :rolleyes: Raven tried to make the game better, but instead of fixing bugs and balancing stuff they changed the game into something totally different and so horrible that it wasn't even funny.

1.03 ruined the game and that is a FACT, not an opinion.

The comments you're pissed off about are probably in the threads where people are discussing what the sequel should be like.(?) Saying what was bad in JO could theoretically lead to Raven taking the good of JO and adding new great ideas whch result in a awesome game.

If everything is fine, people are quiet. People only feel the need to open their mouth when they got something to complain/bitch/moan/whine about. That's human nature. :D

shock ~ unnamed

03-11-2003, 05:26 AM

I still say Raven did a better job than any company could have.
Look at their recent games, JK2, SoF 2, and Star Trek Voyager: Elite Forces.
Be it licensed properties or their own, they have churned out more innovative and high quality games off that Quake 3 engine than any other company.
Sure you can sit here and nitpick about this gun in X game being better or how Chewbacca does not shoot fireballs exactly like the way he did in the movies, but the fact remains they put a higher quality of product out on the market than a lot of companies do.
As for JK2?

Facts:
People complained about the DFA, Raven fixed it.
People complained about the one hit heavy kills, Raven fixed it.
People complained about drain, Raven fixed it.
People complained about grip, Raven fixed it.
People complained about the back stab, Raven fixed it.

End result:
People realized they should not have complained so much and that they actually hurt the game, Raven was no longer listening.

People want to sit here and say Raven put out flawed patches.
Well, yeah they did but why?
Simple.
If they receive legitimate well constructed and thought out feedback the chances of them taking more time to play test the game is much higher.

If they receive 90-million “OMFG THAT <whatever here> IS SO GAY!” e-mails a day the chances of them hastily removing that one or two complaint factors and calling it a patch is much higher.

shock ~ unnamed

03-11-2003, 05:44 AM

(long posts = hard to read for some)

There is nothing wrong with trying to get a company to respond to game play issues but just go back and look at the threads in these forums.

You look at all the people who started the “This <whatever here> is destroying the game and must be fixed!” threads and what you are going to find is a bunch of ½ ass, crappy frustrated noob players who could barely even grasp the concept of FPS game play.

The true problem is Raven did such a good job w/ the SW license and developed a game that really could pull a person in and truly engross them into the game experience.

This lead to many people viewing this game as their own little “SW world” and anything that violated or disrupted their role playing experience had to be removed.

Saber off = peace?
Don’t attack the unarmed?
He lamed me?
No honor?
WTF I was bowing?

I mean really, what other FPS games do you hear garbage like this in?

I’m sorry but until the people who destroyed this game (the *fans) take responsibility for their whining and what it did, I will continue to mock them, “lame” them and chat kill them until the wake up and realize this is not Ever Quest.

ShockV1.89

03-11-2003, 06:17 AM

Hey, get off my name! :p

edit: Smilie added for fear of a lack of sense of humor.

Tosh_UK

03-11-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:
Facts:
People complained about the DFA, Raven fixed it.
People complained about the one hit heavy kills, Raven fixed it.
People complained about drain, Raven fixed it.
People complained about grip, Raven fixed it.
People complained about the back stab, Raven fixed it.

I was not around before 1.03 but from what I was told the DFA was a true bug.

One hit heavy kills well it is a saber is it not!
Drain and grip what was the problems with this I used light side force most of the time. so unsure what the fix was here

Backstab well took me some time to under stand the move, once mastered next stage was to learn the avoid for it.. hence use absorb. and all them lame walking backwards freaks, well they was to easy to kill.. a good kicking stop these guys in there track. I did not mind 1.03 but the fact it was over used made the game boring, and its a bit like that in saber only games now, as Kick gets a bit much in the end. its very hard to balance a game like this one, the saber I feel should of been the main damage weapon, back stab I like the move but agree the tone down was needed. Kick well I like this move to, but felt that a kick to some on holding there saber out should of done damage to the kicker as well as the person getting kicked.

the only thing that annoys me the most now, is the smack talk of: grip freak and pull/push hore!!! wtf if you don't like it join a no force game! the same with people complaining about some one using weapons!! BTW in CtF games the push/pull person is a god send, it helps top up the old force power when trying to run away :p

do I still play the game yes, do I bind keys NO, I would rather get owned than do that. do I have fun most of the time :) some times a few players that can only have fun by ruining others games come along.. but can be solved by joining a different game.
did all the patches ruin the game.. I used to think yes, but looking back all it did was mean that I had to relearn how to play, so not rely.

Zodiac

03-11-2003, 09:41 AM

Raven aimed for a bigger gaming multiplayer-community. They failed to reach that goal, because the mp community's pretty much non existent. Ok.. I'm overexaggerating (sp?), but the community's pretty darn small :(.

And not reaching that goal is where Raven failed, and that's why gamers are complaining. The game's just not enjoyable enough to reach a bigger gaming community, and people are complaining because it should've been enjoyable enough.

What I also noticed on this board is that most of the people who still post here all blame 'the nooby whiners' who sent 90 millions OMG emails to Raven... and they made Raven change the game in a bad way.
Now I don't think it's fair to blame it on those guys. Raven should've spent more time into defining their target group. The freaky, nerdy and obssesed SW gamers (like me hehe) aren't your ordinary gamers, and it's one of the basic principle of marketing: Know your target group for whom you're making this product! Now they got all sorts of emails from all sorts of different player groups, and they constantly listened, changed something, but then annoyed another group of players.

RPG-ers were complaining about the guntoting-FPS-shooters and vice versa, and Raven should've known that those groups were totally different. But they listened to both groups, changed stuff from both sides, resulting in a game where the vast majority of both groups turned their backs on it. I really think Raven could've made a better game if they just knew how special and freaky an SW-community is. More research would've done wonders, like finding out who the more experienced and wise players are and take notes from them instead of them noobie whiners. JK1 was a great success, had a great community, but the influence of the JK1 gaming community on the sequel was minimal. I wonder why, because JKO could've and should've learned a lot from JK's pros and cons.

So in my humble opinion, I think Raven should've done more research into what makes a JK game good and what not, and how the SW-JK-gaming community is.

griff38

03-11-2003, 10:09 AM

I started playing online fps games back in 95 and I have never seen so much complaining untill JKO. This is a real shame, I think this is still the best one so far.

It's a fact that Star Wars has enchanted the majority of western culture.

And I believe that many of them are drawn to this game. This is the group that is most likely generating complaints.
Not obsessed gamers at heart like most of us. It's Star Wars 1rst for them then a game.

Prime

03-11-2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Sapaca
I've noticed that lately everyone seems to be bashing Jedi Outcast. What's wrong with you people!!! Jedi Outcast was an awesome game that everybody loved when it was released! It featured a halfway decent story, in the Star Wars Universe, following the life of the coolest mercenary Kyle Katarn.

While not everyone loved Outcast, I certainly think that the vast majority did, and still does. Especially those that enjoy the SP aspect of the game more than the MP. I know I love this game. Hell, I've been playing it pretty regularly since the day it came out, which was what, about a year ago? I can't really think of another game that has kept my attention for that long. I think the flaws of the game are far outweighed by the good things.

Originally posted by Sapaca
Second, Raven and Lucasarts have tried to make Jedi Outcast even better by releasing patches that even out the multiplayer side of the game. But instead of thanking these guys for their efforts you bash them and call the patches garbage, and claim that they ruin the game. Before you know it, everyone starts bad-mouthing Jedi Outcast and Raven Software!

Yeah, this is one thing I think is a little unfair. Raven was actively involved in the community and got nothing but grief for it. They fixed major bugs and tried to balance gameplay (whether they succeeded or not, I leave up to you to decide). Yes, 1.03 caused problems, but these were mostly rectified by 1.04. Personally, I think the 1.04 version is pretty fun to play. I could stand to have the sabers a little stronger, though.

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Great game, great companies, whiny players.

I feel this way also. I have no problem with people pointing out bugs (which Raven has fixed) or suggesting improvements. It is just the way that people have gone about doing this. So many rants and childish comments. I guess you have to expect that when dealing with young teenage geeks :)

Originally posted by Luc Solar
Yeah.. Raven tried to make the game better, but instead of fixing bugs and balancing stuff they changed the game into something totally different and so horrible that it wasn't even funny

While it can be argued whether they balanced stuff, what bugs haven't been fixed? I thought that most major ones had been caught by Raven. Which ones are you thinking of?

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
If they receive 90-million ?OMFG THAT <whatever here> IS SO GAY!? e-mails a day the chances of them hastily removing that one or two complaint factors and calling it a patch is much higher.

Speaking as a software designer, if I got emails like that after spending three years of my life on something, I'd probably want to put more of this things in just to spite them :)

Originally posted by Tosh_UK
the only thing that annoys me the most now, is the smack talk of: grip freak and pull/push hore!!! wtf if you don't like it join a no force game! the same with people complaining about some one using weapons!!

I agree with this too. First of all, there is enough variations of game types that you should be able to find something that caters to your tastes. I don't get people going on a FFA server and then standing around with their sabers down watching two people duel. Why don't they go to a duel server?? Ultimately don't go to a server where you know what the rules are going to be, and then demand that people play by your rules.

I'm not particularly a fan of saber down = peace, but I tend to respect it anyway. What drives me nuts is when I leave someone with their saber down alone and then they try to grip me or push me over a ledge. Then when I chop them their are all, "OMFG! saber down = peace!!" That's when I declare war on those people...

Originally posted by Zodiac
RPG-ers were complaining about the guntoting-FPS-shooters and vice versa, and Raven should've known that those groups were totally different. But they listened to both groups, changed stuff from both sides, resulting in a game where the vast majority of both groups turned their backs on it.

I think that Raven does know that these groups are totally different. That's why they developed a FPS, and not an RPG. Raven made a game where you can run around with guns and sabers and beat the crap out of each other, and nothing more (and nothing less! :) ). I think that it is the RPGers out there that came in and tried to shoe-horn this game into being a RPG game, and then complained when it didn't work out, and everyone didn't follow this view. I don't see how Raven changed stuff to suit the RPGers. What changes are you talking about? Personally, I don't think the RPGers have a right to complain about this game being a FPS.

Spider AL

03-11-2003, 11:53 AM

Personally, I think the 1.04 version is pretty fun to play. I could stand to have the sabers a little stronger, though.1.04 was a godsend after the hell of 1.03. For that alone, I at least absolve Raven of any responsibility they may have had for listening too closely to the drone of the fanboys. Sure, Dark side is still nerfed, sabres are a little crap in guns FFA/CTF, but hey. I got another couple of months play thanks to Raven releasing 1.04. God bless 'em. Oh, and smite the fanboys please.

:angel:

_SA_Shinzon_

03-11-2003, 12:23 PM

.....

.....

D...A...M...N...

I could NOT have put it better myself. I agree 100000%.

Though I am a fan of the Dark Side...

griff38

03-11-2003, 04:37 PM

What is a fanboy?

Im guessing fan as in obsessed star wars nut, and boy as in imature?

But why guess when you can ask.

Spider AL

03-11-2003, 05:06 PM

What is a fanboy?

Im guessing fan as in obsessed star wars nut, and boy as in imature?

But why guess when you can ask.

I'm glad you did. The word "Fanboy" could mean many things, like the word "Newbie". It could just mean a fan. Or an immature fan, as you suggest. But over the past year it's come to be used most often by players who wish to describe a type of SW fan so utterly geekish that they do things like...

Well, here's an example. There's nothing wrong with RPGing in an FPS,.. but a fanboy might wish to RPG in a public duel or FFA server.

Now, I must admit it: I've RPGed a little bit in my time, back in the days of JK1, just to try it out.

Hey, I was young! :(

But I only did it on specifically dedicated RPG servers. I guess the difference between the average player who is also a Star Wars fan and a Fanboy, is that the average guy knows where to draw the line between a game and reality. Also, fanboys don't care whether other players have fun, they only care about fun for themselves and other fanboys.

Fanboys came to Jedi Outcast with predefined notions of what they wanted from it. They wanted a device to help them pretend to be Jedi. Since they believe (erroneously by the canon) Jedi don't use weapons other than the Lightsabre, they disliked the guns. So they lobbied for the guns to be disempowered. They disliked dying in the game, because it reminded them that they weren't really all-powerful Jedi, so they lobbied for force powers to be disempowered, and for autoblocking to be introduced for the sabre.

Basically, if a fanboy doesn't like something (usually because it interferes with his or her... (wait a minute, female fanboys? Oh well, whatever.) His or her roleplaying, then they whine and whine at other players, at the manufacturers, at anyone who'll listen, until it's removed. Fanboys are the bane of every player's existence, whether they're aware of it or not.

So umm... There we go. :D

shock ~ unnamed

03-11-2003, 05:22 PM

I was first drawn to this game solely because of the SW content.
As someone who has played FPS games since the shareware DOOM, after all these years it takes quite a lot to really snag my interest when I first fire up a new game.
No joke, to this day I have never even played single player JK2 once.
I started up the multiplayer, joined a server the first time and was totally engrossed in a game that was unlike anything out there.
Sure JK1 had the powers and saber stuff but (because of the time) it was so ugly and clunky it was hard to enjoy (for me at least).

Raven *did do their homework.
They made a FPS and a *sequel to JK1.
They targeted the same people who made that community what it was.
What happened though was instead of just making a better looking game; they actually implemented a true saber combat system other than the 2 button swing of JK1.
The Force powers were now not simply things you “shoot” at people but true tools that could be used in many different ways.

Like a lot of people I tended to sway towards the saber/Force stuff and ignore the guns.
For me it was something new and if I wanted guns, I could always go back to Quake 3.

But it didn’t take long to notice that a lot of the people drawn to the saber combat had a different goal.
I go into a FFA server w/ 30 people and 28 of them are just standing around…
I get voted off a server because I don’t “bow”…

The non-FPS types of people are not the people who should have been targeted for this game nor should they ever have been listened to when they complained.
Why so harsh you say?
Because *they are the majority of players playing this game right now and look how dead it is.
The FPS people said screw it, and left.
The competitive players said screw it, and left.

Go to any SO/FFA server and TRY to actually play.
They vote you or kick you off.

And this notion that the RPG SW fan boys don’t try to infest and infect anything they touch is total B.S.

I provide a dedicate public server (see sig) at my own expense and not a day goes by when I don’t have a horde of RPG noobs insult me or try to kick me off my own damn server because I do not follow their little RPG rules.

When people first start to RPG-whine I nicely tell them that saber off = dead here so please just shut up and play.
And it never fails.
They try to vote you off, insult you and will not stop bitching and whining until you finally get tired of listening to them and just boot them off the server.

No joke, other than our regulars I would say only 1 out of every 50 people I see actually comes to play a game and not RPG in some fashion.

People always whine about “lamers don’t respect the server rules”.
What about my rule of not wanting RPG crap on my server?
What about the fact that I pay for this server to have one place I can actually PLAY the game when I want and not have to spend an hour for people to get done with their /amwhatever crap just so I can attack them?

I really hope an expansion does come out because by then SWG will be out and the RPG trash simply won’t be around to screw this one up for the rest of us.

griff38

03-11-2003, 05:53 PM

Shock said, "RPG noobs insult me or try to kick me off my own damn server because I do not follow their little RPG rules."

Errr, that makes me feel sick, it's bad enough when you join someone elses server and get that stuff.

Well it's clear that there are many good people still playing JKO or at least posting at Lucasforums, and Iam not gonna let the RPG, Fanboys ruin my fun. In fact I am going to redouble my efforts to make their life H E double hockey sticks.

Remember, If you can't beat em, try harder.

Emon

03-11-2003, 08:49 PM

What really annoys me is people who say, "OMG WTF JEDI OUTCAST IS SUCH **** GUNS ARE SO ****ING CHEAP I CANT BE ALL POWERFUL JEDI I HATE THIS GAME DAMN IT DAMN IT TO HELL RAVEN SHOULD DIE STUPID MOTHER ****ERS OMG OMG I HATE THIS GAME IM GUNNA GO PLAY SOME MORE OF IT BECAUSE I HATE IT!!!"

:rolleyes:

So many people hate it, but keep playing it...

lllKyNeSlll

03-11-2003, 09:24 PM

Zodiac, VDS? you should know my friend HExen_VDS. He disliked jk2 just because it was slower. But, I adjusted, I was with END back in the day.

UJ is right about most of it. The game's patches changed too quickly and the elite community died, which also quickly led to diminishing of others. THey should have kept the DFA pivot, but not when on ground. Grip was a little too powerful, backstab was fine. HOwever, the pull shouldn't be that powerful to KO on movement only.

Just like Zodiac says, Raven should have kept the game still extremely fast paced more similar to jk1. JK1 was kept fully alive for 2 and a 1/2 years. It only started to die after its second year. It was still popular in its 3rd year and elites kept communities alive and brought old clans back like PRINCE< SyK, DSBR back even after jk1 died in 2000

shock ~ unnamed

03-11-2003, 10:13 PM

Speaking of JK1...
Anyone still have it and feel like getting a game going?
I started messing around with it today and it was a blast to play again.
Sure it is fugly but some of our regulars are going to see if we can get a decent game going once in a while.

DeTRiTiC-iQ

03-12-2003, 06:58 AM

Personally i've never been too impressed with Raven's games. They tend to try and sell them by a single "gimmick". SoF was the violence, Elite Force was the license and JK2 was the saber. This tends to result in a shallow experience for those who want to look beyond the gimmicks.

Personally I thought JK2 multiplayer was incredible fun, UNTIL people realized what was required to win. The first week of JK2 when I was a complete newb, getting killed by just about every attack was still amazing fun because the novelty hadn't worn off.

The singleplayer was fun, especially by Raven's usually standards, but it felt lacking compared to JK, maybe because making Barney the final boss was probably thought up in a drunken stupor. The main problem with the singleplayer is that it lacked common sense, in JK Kyle could get away with being the hero because only he knew what was going on. What EXACTLY was Luke doing whilst Kyle was saving the Academy?! Brushing his hair for the final cutscene? Or was he up in space looking at the pretty debris after Rogue Squadron blew up Galak's ship?

JK was incredible, the levels were HUGE, I remember at the end of level 9, the elevator near the end that travels for ages giving you a HUGE view of the ship. That was inspiring.

But my main gripe with JK2 multiplayer was that to continue enjoying it you had to do one of 3 things:

1) Hone your skills to perfection by months of practise making you an unstoppable force
2) Just learn the easy tricks, knowing full well that this will place you at least halfway up the scoreboard
3) Play RPG on Duel of the Fates maps

the majority of people seem to have chose 2 and 3, but oddly group 1 are actually the most enjoyable to play against.

So what have people learnt from JK2? Decide what the game is supposed to be BEFORE releasing it. To this day I can't tell if Raven wanted multiplayer to be based on dueling or ffa or whatever...

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted, bring on the next game!

shock ~ unnamed

03-12-2003, 07:08 AM

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ
But my main gripe with JK2 multiplayer was that to continue enjoying it you had to do one of 3 things:

1) Hone your skills to perfection by months of practise making you an unstoppable force
2) Just learn the easy tricks, knowing full well that this will place you at least halfway up the scoreboard
3) Play RPG on Duel of the Fates maps

1 and 2 is pretty much the standard requirement/means for success in any online FPS.

That brings us to 3 and that nasty 3 letter word again...

Quake 4 will tear it up and the fact that it’s going back to the Quake 2 roots and not the cyber-fruit on roller blades w/ a rocket launcher garbage that Quake 3 was is a good sign.

ShockV1.89

03-12-2003, 07:26 AM

Word! (and you still have my name, beeatch! :p )

Tosh_UK

03-12-2003, 08:06 AM

I'm not particularly a fan of saber down = peace, but I tend to respect it anyway. What drives me nuts is when I leave someone with their saber down alone and then they try to grip me or push me over a ledge. Then when I chop them their are all, "OMFG! saber down = peace!!" That's when I declare war on those people...

LOL I was playing on a CtF game lastnight, and i noticed a bit of text come up..... OMFG! saber down = peace man i have not LOL so hard in a long time. and a few of the replys was funny to.

anyone here play on United Coruscant (sp?) I play as Ranger
the server might not be every ones cup of tea as backslash is enabled on that sever, but have to say, so far has not ruined the game in anyway (maybe down to you get a face full of Blaster if you do.

p.s has many of you come across the guy that thinks i put a bubble up (i as a rule dont attack people that i come accross with a bubble up, as long as it not in are side of the map (ctf) or if they was mid fight then put it up, its hard cheese for them. but i was in a CTF game bubble was up, then next think i know i am grip and the guy still had his bubble up. what a cheap kill :( only once i have seen this but that was once to many :(

second point is in some of the maps, you can get up on to ledges i know how to get up on most, but the Ctf map with all the drops (sorry cant think of the name for the life of me) where in the middle ground you can get very high up on the ledges, i dont know how to get up there, as was in a map the other day where some one went up there with the flag and waited for his to be returned, non of us on the op side knew how to get up there and was a very crappy game :(

Luc Solar

03-12-2003, 08:41 AM

Backstabbing is not a big problem in an All Weapons game, but try a No Force Team FFA, with a bunch of l337 yawspeed-spinning-scriptin'-backstabbing clan d3wds... :rolleyes:

When I'm armed, I can shoot the bastard. The occasional pull-backstab that gets me is nothing but a reminder of how ridiculous and pathetic saber fights were and can be on servers where people have (FOR SOME RETARDED REASON THAT I WON'T EVEN TRY TO COMPREHEND) enabled backstabbing even though it sais the server is running "basejk, patch 1.04".

:disaprove

Tosh_UK

03-12-2003, 10:54 AM

Backstabbing is not a big problem in an All Weapons game, but try a No Force Team FFA, with a bunch of l337 yawspeed-spinning-scriptin'-backstabbing clan d3wds...

lol i got a mental pic of every one running around backwards, maybe at the time some one should of made a skin that had eyes on the back of there heads... or even better on there arse

I used to like saber only CtF but gets a bit much now with all the DFA Rage spammers, so on a force & gun enable maps has been quite good fun.. and bespin shafts love that map when guns are on :) hehehe

Prime

03-12-2003, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by Tosh_UK
LOL I was playing on a CtF game lastnight, and i noticed a bit of text come up..... OMFG! saber down = peace man i have not LOL so hard in a long time. and a few of the replys was funny to.

Happened to me yesterday on a FFA server. And the guy kept doing it, and not just to me. So about four of us ganged up on him and made his life miserable :)

I have to give him credit though. He stuck with that strategy to the bitter end. We kept hacking him up, and he kept running around with his saber down trying to grip people. And without fail, every time someone attacked him, up would come "WTF?! saber down = peace!". The funny thing was that this came up so quickly after one of us attacked him, I have the sneaking feeling he had this bound to a key. Either that, or he types it so much it has become second nature.

As for RPGers, I don't get that at all. I still don't think that Raven catered to them, either with the original release or with the patches. It is a FPS only. But how exactly do you RPG in JO? I mean, what do you actually do? Is it just those guys running around with their saber down saying everyone has no honour?

Tosh_UK

03-13-2003, 06:06 AM

Either that, or he types it so much it has become second nature LMFAO

Pnut_Man

03-13-2003, 07:54 AM

These so-called "roleplayers" ruin the jk2 community. I've recently been getting back into the lightsaber combat system with the Knights of Alderaan. I've learned alot of stuff that I never knew about yellow stance, blue stance and red stance. There was a time when I would do one duel and then take a break, now I'll do as many as my hands will hold..

When I go onto the zone I see about 15-30 "Rpgs" a day. These games all really suck major ass, there's no plot in their stories, people just run around with special titles and kill each other in saber duels. You see, if the roleplayers that destroyed the jk2 community were DECENT at what they do, then i'll have some diginity for them. The fact that these dumb-asses have no clue what the hell roleplaying is makes the situation even more sardonically ironic..

There is one thing true about all of this: It sure is a helluva lot of fun to go into "rpgs" and bash the "roleplayers" :D

Spider AL

03-13-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Pnut_Master:

It sure is a helluva lot of fun to go into "rpgs" and bash the "roleplayers" I have to say, this is probably the only constructive thing left to do in the JO community.

Go forth, and bash a fanboy a day at the very least. They were drawn to JO, yes, but JO does not have a monopoly on them. They've ruined many other games. Stop them before they spread!

Let us crush them! Crush the fanboys!

:firemad:

Tosh_UK

03-13-2003, 11:59 AM

roleplaying ummm sounds like a excuse becuse they cant play!

I can not saber for the life of me, but i am good at Flag running... well on bespin shafts anyhow. I rely heavly on my force powers. but i dont think i am Luke running about. all i see is a pixle with some niffty moves :P plus i can fight in a multi fight. non of this i stand there wile them 2 kill each over and them maybe kill both after some time. if i see you on the side line your going to se my size 10 boots :p

Prime

03-13-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Pnut_Master
These games all really suck major ass, there's no plot in their stories...
There's stories???? LMAO (I think I just pissed myself :( ). I thought they just stood around kissing each other...and then they call me gay when I chop them. LOL!

Originally posted by Pnut_Master
There is one thing true about all of this: It sure is a helluva lot of fun to go into "rpgs" and bash the "roleplayers" :D

Indeed. I think I'll "roleplay" my saber up their "rpgs".

"We are roleplaying! I am Turd Fergusen, a bartender from Tatooine!" -Turd

"We are roleplaying! I am Turd Fergusen, a bartender from Tatooine!" -Turd

THAT'S EXACTLY IT! why do they pretend to be such mundane individuals? Back in the days of JK1 there were people who RPGed on Drazen Isle and pretended to RUN A CLOTHES SHOP!

Are their real lives so exciting that they crave a few hours of tedious pretence a day? I know, all these roleplaying fanboys are crack CIA agents really, that's why roleplaying a postman appeals to them! :D

DeTRiTiC-iQ

03-13-2003, 01:23 PM

ahhh back in the Drazen days I always chose to be Treasure Hunter who gets mysteriously trigger-happy whenever finding treasure.

In Barons Hed RPG I generally played Assassin and hid in the tusken caves while I went and had dinner.

Tosh_UK

03-13-2003, 01:29 PM

I thought they just stood around kissing each other...and then they call me gay when I chop them. LOL!

LMFAO.
I also hate it when I join a server lets say CtF then some one pops in and puts a vote up to change to TFF!!!! why change a set up server to some thing different, and when the vote fails they post it again saying VOTE YES..... huh it failed because we are here to play CtF lol. Last night was a funny night to, as the losing team noticed towards the end one of there members jump ship to the winning side LOL teams was equal at the time as well, man did he get a lot of stick from both teams LOL

Spider AL

03-13-2003, 03:58 PM

ahhh back in the Drazen days I always chose to be Treasure Hunter who gets mysteriously trigger-happy whenever finding treasure.

Quite. A good response to complaints that one was killing people in Drazen RPG was that one was roleplaying the character of a deranged serial killer. :)

Now Drazen was a good map. The BEST times I had in JK, or any game bar none were on that map, with my clan brethren. Oh for those days.

shock ~ unnamed

03-13-2003, 04:16 PM

I really don't have a problem with role playing in general, I can't see myself ever doing it but to each their own.

I just wish they would have stayed on designated RPG servers and left the rest of us (and the game) alone.

If they actually want to "play" fine go to a public server and play.
Just leave the saber off = peace crap back on the RPG server.

The ironic thing about this is when SWG comes out there are going to be a lot of people like myself who will be playing it who do not have the slightest interest in role playing.

I just want to go around killing people, mugging them, whatever.
I know it is going to be hard for Jedi Master Joe to stay in character when I’m firing off four lettered obscenities about his mother at an alarming rate.

I guess things come full circle after all.

Prime

03-13-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by Spider AL
Quite. A good response to complaints that one was killing people in Drazen RPG was that one was roleplaying the character of a deranged serial killer. :)

I say something like, "I am a navy cook who is on shore leave and ended up roleplaying DnD with some sailer buddies. After playing for 8 hours my dwarven circus performer was slain by an elf. Now I am exacting revenge for my poor dice rolls on your unsuspecting populace."

And then I chop them and when they complain that they are roleplaying I just say, "I know, and I just rolled a natural 20."

And then they call me "gay".

Most a pity.

shock ~ unnamed

03-13-2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Prime

I say something like, "I am a navy cook who is on shore leave and ended up roleplaying DnD with some sailer buddies. After playing for 8 hours my dwarven circus performer was slain by an elf. Now I am exacting revenge for my poor dice rolls on your unsuspecting populace."

That is just disturbing on so many levels...

And then I chop them and when they complain that they are roleplaying I just say, "I know, and I just rolled a natural 20."

Mind if I steal that line for my next JK2 Jihad assault on public saber off = peace servers?

DeTRiTiC-iQ

03-13-2003, 08:29 PM

natural 20 is the solution to many problems.

Prime

03-13-2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
Mind if I steal that line for my next JK2 Jihad assault on public saber off = peace servers?

You may fire when ready :)

I'm also thinking of using, "Behold! I have +8 in Annoyance."

Zodiac

03-14-2003, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by lllKyNeSlll
Zodiac, VDS? you should know my friend HExen_VDS. He disliked jk2 just because it was slower. But, I adjusted, I was with END back in the day.

Lol. I just noticed this post. :p Bit late. But yeah, Hexy's my pal. I used to be in END too for a few days, but returned to VDS cuz I missed the orgies ;). Who were you in END? :) Maybe we've been clanmates without even knowing it. :D

Jolts

03-15-2003, 09:44 PM

a few things that turned me off of JO MP.

the rpging crack heads. I hate them, I hate them all. Then comes the basic mechanics of gameplay and weapons, generic, been there done that.

For all the people who might not of played everyother fps to come out since wolf3d and have just been introduced to a fps or online gaming I'm sure it was a blast while it lasted.

Thank the dear lord god above for swg, I hope in consumes all sw rpgers forever. Being realistic it won't, they will always spread out and get their stinky rpging hands in every sw game that comes out. It is the curse of sw.

The community forums being down 70% of the time right after the games release I'm sure also didn't help much for average person. I know its hard to run a site like this and its not free, but it still hurt the game.

Kurgan

03-24-2003, 02:53 AM

This is nothing new, people were bashing the game within weeks of its release. People are fickle...

It's because these are people who either beat the game in 1 day or got mad because of the patches, or they just got bored, etc etc.

Who cares? If you enjoy the game, don't let these guys get you down. Everybody has a right to their opinion...

But methinks that they are hanging around here complaining rather than playing, while the "silent majority" are having fun.

This forum community is just the tip of the iceberg of the JK2 community. We shouldn't exaggerate our importance.

"Everyone" is not bashing the game.

Now watch, all the people bashing JK2 for its "lack of innovation" will be spooging over Unreal2 and Doom3 for their "incredible eye candy" and "impressive AI." ; )

Just watch....

Prime

03-24-2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Kurgan

"Everyone" is not bashing the game.
On the contrary. Even on these cynical boards here at Lucasforums, a few threads up there is a poll asking how people rate the game.

Currently, after 57 votes, 65% think it is excellent and 17% think it is the best game they have ever played.

I don't think anyone can deny that overall JO has been a huge success.

shock ~ unnamed

03-24-2003, 06:49 PM

I think the games sales alone will pretty much guarantee an expansion.
I’m sure another “full” installment in the game series will happen but it may be a while.

Kurgan

03-25-2003, 12:07 PM

Yeah, I mean even if 100% of the people on these forums (which at the absolute most is 48,514 people... though many of those are probably people with more than one alias) absolutely unequivocally HATED JK2, that still is only a drop in the bucket of people who bought and play the game.

How many copies has JK2 sold?

Prime

03-25-2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by shock ~ unnamed
I think the games sales alone will pretty much guarantee an expansion. Has there been any more news since it slipped that there was another Jedi Knight project in development? Do we know yet if it is an expansion or full-fledged game? I'm guessing it is the former...

Cobalt60

03-28-2003, 02:40 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet , but IIRC the main problem with Raven's treatment of "patches" was the lack of beta testing for this game.

if you recall, Raven were given an impossibly short development cycle (only one year to complete the game), so they had to take a few shortcuts.

instead of beta testing the game , they released a test candidate and then just watched the forums for feedback .. so they could change whatever they thought people were bitching about the most.

in retrospect , all this did was divide the community.

this gave the whiners their way.

and everyone who loved the game as it was first released..
(about 90% of those who rushed out to buy it on release-day)
..their voices were not heard. they felt betrayed. and insulted. so they walked away.

and so to answer the original question : why?
(essentially .. its because the game was rushed to market)

-------------------------
p.s: a few more shorcuts that were taken by Raven as they rushed this game to market
(shortcuts which are also seen as "insults" by hardcore gamers)

- the saber-combat system uses "random number generators" to determine the type/amount of damage inflicted by the sword (!)

meaning: the programmers didn't have time to properly implement the skeletal animation.. so they cheated

in the end, RUNE is a far more realistic 'sword-play simulator' for the hardcore gamer.

(and as for JO .. you might as well play DICE .. the game is not based on skill)
(and this was not acceptable to the MP community , who were told by Raven
'if you don't like it , patch it yourself')

(Raven then released the source code to the mod community,
and they officially stopped making patches)

- the mod community discovered very quickly..
..that the source code for JO makes constant reference to the main character as "Ensign Munroe" (LOL)

meaning: the programmers didn't have time to properly create this game from 'scratch';
they simply took the source code from 'STV:EliteForce' ,
and they re-released it as a "new" game (LOL)..
..with just a few changed textures and a few changed models..
to effectively turn "StarTrek" into "StarWars" (!?)

(( and of course, the loyal fanbase from the first, most excellent, JediKnight game
would simply not accept this "cookie-cutter" concept of game-design ))

(( and so the JO has no multiplayer community ))

(( because the game is tripe ))

fallen[fk]

03-30-2003, 01:43 AM

Originally posted by Spider AL
1.04 was a godsend after the hell of 1.03. For that alone, I at least absolve Raven of any responsibility they may have had for listening too closely to the drone of the fanboys. Sure, Dark side is still nerfed, sabres are a little crap in guns FFA/CTF, but hey. I got another couple of months play thanks to Raven releasing 1.04. God bless 'em. Oh, and smite the fanboys please.

:angel:

1.04 is horrid. No Force fights take forever while you try to chip away. Full Force games the saber is really useless to swing. Go on Unnamed's duel server, it's FF, see if anyone there actually swings the saber unless it's a combo after a force attack. 1.04 combat is all kicks, force, and saber throws. 1.04 killed the competitive gaming community. Well 1.03 started it. The serious gamers were here in 1.02. But the fanboys killed it for us. And I will say that it was the cries of the non-fps, rpg newbie's that got the game changed. I e-mailed ken hoekstra when Raven released 1.04 asking what kind of crap this was. Why the damage scaling was so utterly futile now. He told me Raven was inundated with complaints about damage, so they did what the majority of the community wanted. Problem is the majority of the community wanted honorable saber rpg newbie crap. They didn't listen to the serious gamers who liked the game the way it was. Fixing actual bugs is one thing, totally changing the way the game plays is another. There was no need to do that. Anchor backstab, fine, but leave the damage. The problem would have been solved had they simply anchored backstab and fixed the pull/push system. I mean christ they nerfed the mid-air blue lunge. Now seeing people fly around in it is one thing. But you should be able to do a little jumping blue lunge, you can do jumps into red and yellow dfa's! But not lunge? Fanboy rpg newbie wanna-be honorable saber down jedi's ruined this game.