God is all knowing. Everything happens because he makes it so. It is all his plan

A little girl grows up with very religious parents. Their faith is never ending and neither is the girl's. They are very happy and full of joy. during the little girls 6th birthday, I come into their home. I stab the father in the stomach and leave him motionless as I slash his wife's throat and he watches. I take it upon myself to violently rape the little girl before beating her to death. Did god make me do it because it was his plan? don't tell me it's free will. God is all knowing. why didn't he make them die peacefully before I got to them? why didn't he make a miracle happen that saved them all. maybe make it so I some how trip and fall on my own blade before I have a chance to attack the father. hell, make me lose the breaks on my car and die or become paralyzed by the accident. Notice that in any unfortunate event, if ANYTHING positive happens, it is a miracle from god. 175 people died a train wreck. There was one survivor. It was a miracle from god that he survived so **** all the other people that died violently in the wreck. It wasn't a miracle guys. It was probability at work and he or she was the lucky **** of the group.

You're so stupid. Honestly. God's plan isn't what happens. It's the path He wants us to go on, it's His plan for us. Plans don't always go through. By doing that, you're going against your plan. He couldn't of killed you because that means He'd have to kill anyone who was going to do anything bad, meaning he'd basically wipe out the species.

So wait, God is all knowing and all powerful. Your stating "Plans don't always go through" makes it seem like he does, in fact, have his limits. That would mean he is not all powerful and all knowing. if he was, he would know how to word it so that everyone listened. He most certainly could kill me. killing anyone for sin would be a dick move, seeing as he gave us sin. Why wouldn't he kill me (or someone else) who is about to take the gift of life from someone else? "I'm going to respect your free will to take away all those victims free will." Well, That doesn't sound very good. The bible specifies that god is good. Why? we have common sense. you wouldn't have to tell a kid what a hero is for him to know that they are good. simply based on their actions. God made things happen that were questionable enough that they had to splatter the word of him being good all over the place so you wouldn't question it.

You also chose the wrong approach at the beginning. Why call me "stupid"? why not simply call me "Misguided" or "Naive".

>plans don't always go through
Because of free will. He could very well force us to do whatever He wants, but He chooses to give us free will.
>gave us sin
He gave us a choice. We chose wrong. We gave ourselves sin
>free will
We have free will. The murderer will eventually pay for his actions
>God is good
I'm doubting what you're saying. He's done some questionable things, yes. That's not why it's all over the bible. It's all over the Bible because God is, in fact, good.

>free will
He is all powerful and all knowing. He would have no need to force us to do anything. he would already know how to say it so that we would follow.
>gave us sin
I feel it was an illusion of choice. If he already knows past, preset, and future. he would know that Adam and ever would eat the apple. So why not word it in a way that he knew they would follow? if they had followed and not eaten the apple, they would have had ever lasting life and so would their children and their children's children. we would suffer from over population. god told Adam and Eve to not eat the apple with the plan that they would, then he punished us for it. Mostly women with labor pains and what not.
>doubt
What part do you doubt exactly?

>free will
He can say whatever He likes, but at the end of the day, we still have the choice. There's a gray area in 'saying it', as there's no way to make every human understand or accept it without violating free will.
>gave us sin
It's iffy there. He worded it the best He could. Adam and Eve knew exactly what would happen. They made the choice.
>doubt
the splattering thing

>Free will
Simply presenting himself would be enough. If god came down from heaven and he himself stated the facts, many less people would question it. It would not eliminate free will because now that we know the truth, we can make an honest choice.
>gave us sin
He would have worded it as best he could in our prospective. He is all knowing and we are all naive. He would know infinite other ways to word it for them to understand.
>doubt
It wasn't necessarily spattered but it was mentioned an unusual number of times.

>free will
Has he truly? the bible says he has but the bible was written by man. if he were to come down now. when there are cameras and video recordings, live feeds that would travel the whole world. there would be no doubt. he would only need to reveal himself one more time if he has at all.
>gave us sin
human preservation would then make us not eat the apple. now over population is the concern. He would not be lying technically. the result of them eating the apple would be them being granted the ability to die.
>doubt
but did it need to be written? if so, why so many times?

>free will
yeah, that's the whole point of the new testament. God revealing Himself
>gave us sin
ok, I'm not seeing your point
>doubt
there are many authors, and most of them had the same thing on their mind

>Free will
Well are we now talking about the rapture? I don't think it would be fair to reveal himself only on the time when hes gonna take away our time on earth.
>gave us sin
the plan was that we live forever. we would eventually run out of land if no one ever dies.
>doubt
But if the bible was written by god and is his word, why change it in the new testament? where did the new testament come from? who wrote it? why?

It was nice and educational for me as well. Thank you for the time. I cannot believe we had a religious conversation without once trying to kill each other with words. the internet got a little better today.

>free will
...... no. Jesus
>gave us sin
IIRC Eden was designed to sustain all of us, but we took that away
>doubt
what do you mean, change? nothing changed. matthew, mark, luke, john, paul, peter, james, jude, and letter to the hebrews is unknown

>free will
Who is the child of god but also god
>Why take it from animal life as well?
>doubt
The part that said that you should be killed if you work on a sunday, the part that said that a woman who loses her virginity before marriage should die, etc etc. those where taken away in the new testament if I recall correctly.

>free will
so then why doesn't he show himself to everyone in a way that he will never fade (let us record his words, broadcast his existence to the world. He had no problem showing up while there was no way to mark his existence as fact.

Well, what was the real point of animals being in Eden? We didn't eat animals before.

>doubt
Ok. They changed. how can we change the word of god? who has the right?

>free will
There is the whole faith portion, but I'd say Jesus was more than enough. It's been recorded by outsiders (Josephus, Pliny, Tacitus), and just by common sense (the writers deaths), it's obvious they weren't making it up.
I still fail to see your point
>doubt
God changed the covenants after Jesus' death. The old rules applied to the tribes of Israel. When Jesus died for us, all the old was done away with

>free will
The faith portion is just a way for us to not feel like when we die, nothing will happen. I honestly can't imagine an atheist's view point on it. I've tried to picture that. It's terrifying.

Well, If everything said in the bible is true, then animals are there for the giggles. unless god knew Adam and eve would eat the apple and they would serve a purpose.

>free will
That's one of the reason I'm Christian. Even if I'm wrong, it's comforing
>animals
Wouldn't they eat them?
>doubt
Matthew 5:18. Once Jesus was resurrected, we were no longer judged by the old laws

>free will
Christianity is only one of the choices though. What made you pick that one in particular?
>Animals
I was lead to believe we would only eat plant life before the original sin
>Doubt
Then why are women still suffering from child birth and what not?

>free will
Partly cultural, partly because there's nothing else good (Islam has been ****** to hell)
>animals
Never heard about that
>doubt
That isn't a part of it. Original sin still remains. The covenant is the old laws

>free will
I see. My family was strongly christian, One of my cousins is now a priest. I fell from it pretty quickly. I tried going back to church. attended one next to my house 4 or so times. then Stopped going again.
>Animals
I see. I might have just misheard or misunderstood.
>Do you think it's fair? for all women to suffer from that alone?

The God's plan thing is a load of ****, remember the story of Adam and Eve.

God: So you guys don't eat the fruit.
Adam and Eve: Okay, God we won't eat the fruit
(Now God being the all knowing asshole he is knew they were going to eat the fruit as it was part of his plan)
*Adam and Eve eat fruit*
God: You guys now have to live a **** life for something that was part of my plan.

God knows everything, but He's not bound by time, meaning He knows past, present, and future. It wasn't in His plan, He simply couldn't stop it. We don't suffer for it, at least the Bible gives no indication of that.

Don't even bother telling me we don't suffer for it, I was born with a disorder in where my bones are constantly aching and people keep bullying me for it they call me things like "spastic hands" (I can't write because of my disorder) and bend my bones to points were my skin rips, I definitely suffer. If Adam and Eve had stayed in that garden I wouldn't have to deal with this **** and we do suffer for it, have you actually read that bloody book? Also if he exists then he is supposed to be all powerful, he could stop my pain but he does nothing. Now I would like to say I am a good human being, I try to bring a smile to the people around me and I go out of my way to help people were I can, but if an all powerful being can't even help me then he either doesn't exist or isn't worth my acknowledgement of a God because that being exists it is not a God, it's an asshole.

1. I am very sorry that you are in that much pain.
2. If Adam and Eve had stayed in the garden, you wouldn't have that pain because you wouldn't exist. They couldn't have children while in the garden.
3. No one has a perfect body while on Earth. Even Christ's body, while He was here, was subject to aging, pain, and death. Christ overcame death and sin so that when the rest of us die, we can gain a perfect body. You might not see it yet, but Christ sacrificed His life for yours 2000 years before you were born. You can have a body free from pain because of Him, but it may have to wait until after this life.

When Adam and Eve were in the garden they were immortal, God kicks them out and then makes it possible for them to die and feel pain. Die and pain = suffer. Also, I didn't say that he singled me out but according to many Christians he has the power to help me but he doesn't and before you go down the whole I need to keep my faith ********, my Granddad has the bone disorder too, he was a devote believer in God all his life, he died screaming two years ago when the pain from his bones got too much for him.

He kicked them out because they disobeyed Him. They knew not to. God can help you, but we're at the level where scientists can figure this **** out. We have multiple ways to stop pain. God doesn't help us because He doesn't have to.

>Everything is part of his plan
>It is part of his plan that they disobeyed him

Also if he can help me why doesn't he? Because I do need help. Scientists found a way to stop my pain but it leads to liver, heart and kidneys failure after 5 years of the drug. Also, that still makes God an asshole what you're saying is that because most of the human species is fine God isn't helping me right? Then as humans we shouldn't be helping people in Africa because we can help them but some of them are fine so they will probably sort things out by themselves, you're logic is cruel. If you have the power to help someone you should, if you don't you're an asshole.

>everything is a part of his plan
No. His Plan would lead to us all going to heaven. As you can see, that's not happening. Would you rather be babyed? Not advance as a species? It is a necessary 'evil'.

I would rather not have to live in constant pain. I am fine for suffering for things I have done but I don't deserve to live in constant pain and know that I am going to end up like my Grandfarther and that if I have children they will have to deal with the same ****. It's not fair that I have to live this way. Do you think I deserve what I have? I wouldn't mind if I accidentally got bit by a snake that caused this to happen to me because then that would be partly my fault but being born with it is unfair.

God has healed others, though right? Okay maybe I do want to be ******* babyed then because this pain is ******* horrible and the people around me show me no comfort, I don't want to advance as a species if I have to live through this ****.

You didn't answer my question, why do we praise God? Also, look up the proof yourself you've got internet. Also, what if God has been doing that all a long? I may be throwing ideas together but God is supposed to be all powerful so he should be able to do anything, so it is logical.

No. You made the claim, you have to back it up. If we present evidence from two different sources, it gets muddled. Back up your claim, or drop it. He made us, and He's gotten rid of the worst of us. The thousands comes from Sodom and Gomorrah. There was not a single good person there. Rape, murder, theft, and all that, except at crazy levels

Because you would know, right? They're is no way everyone could have been evil. Also I can't find the article. But it was about how catholic Christians have killed scientists over the years because they stray from the path of God with their ideology, such as that guy that came up with the theory that the Earth rotated around the sun, a lot of good men that could of probably advanced us to a point where I would be cured have died because of people that praise God.

Well, the major source for S&G is the bible. In one of the verses. Abraham asks God to spare the entire city if there's 5 righteous people. There's weren't (IIRC there were 2 that God told to leave). And if you can't back your points, then don't say that.

Why do we need to praise God then? Also, whats so good about human advancement?
I'd rather have my fellow man live a live without pain that isn't his fault. Also he doesn't have to make it obvious that he did it does he, that way we won't ask him for a **** ton of other things that we don't need? He can just give a scientist somewhere the idea to cure all unfair suffering if he really is all powerful. Also religions have slowed down human advancement by about 200 years so if we stop praise God we can advance further like you want, right?

Oh boy. You're throwing **** together and trying to piece it into a plan. The scientist has to think of this stuff on His own. Doing that defeats our purpose. Give me some proof with the human advancement, the burden is on you.

But isn't that like saying that if we give all of Africa clean water, they'll just want an education after that and then they will just want better houses and so forth and so on. Also I am not talking about getting rid of suffering, I am talking about getting of unfair suffering, like he could stop babies being born with deformities, he could stop people being born without limbs etc etc, that doesn't stop us advancing as a species and those people do need help by some sort of divine being.

But I am stopping humanity's advancement which is what you strive for. Also though by your logic isn't the church pointless as we don't need God anymore? We may as well put our resources to something more useful like saving lives?

1. you'd just be a horrific dick if you just suddenly killed a family to disprove god, and even stoop as low as the fanatics you so righteously judge.
2. A few moments of pain and suffering compared to infinite peace and happiness doesn't seem like much.
3. it is a miracle the one dude survives, but a travesty it happened. You're dismissing something, and not looking at each section.
4. God allows your own **** ups. some one killed before their time gets easy judgement or some ****. If free will isn't a thing, the dude has it all planned out and the family is kicking back on white sandy bitches in a pleasant sun rise.
5. If you're going to try to make a point of something, don't say IN THE QUESTION that you already dismiss optional proof of any other conclusion. it makes you seem like an ass.

Well, I didn't kill them simply because of their religious view. I'm placing myself in the body of a murderer. The murderer likely doesn't even care who he kills. he just wants some victims. it's his sick twisted mental orgy of pleasure.

Regardless of how long it takes and the the peace that comes with it, God gave us time on this planet as a gift. Should he not be trying to make sure that people that are so faithful to him enjoy that gift for as long as possible?

I am personally agnostic. I am not ready to dismiss the possibility that god exists or that there might be multiple gods. I just feel that what the bible describes him or her to be like just doesn't seem to match at all.

I dismissed "Free will" because that would imply that god does not already know what I am going to do, regardless of my free will. which would then disprove that he is all knowing.

There is a possibility. Let's say that when people say "God is everywhere" and science says that the big bang created everything that exists in this universe...then god would be the original mass that scattered in the big bang and that is why he is everywhere.
When people say he is always watching but you can't see him. There are microscopic bacteria and living creatures that also originated from the big bang that are probably looking at you now as we speak.