This is not a bandwagon post. Think of it as a last will of sorts. I am in no way a Spurs fan. But I am so tired of the cockiness from the Bulls, Heat and Lakers... and also very depressed about tonight's game. The Celtics weren't exactly at their best but the Bulls are the real deal... which is painful because I know how much certain players on that team wanted to dig it into us. Joakim Noah vis a vis Kevin Garnett anyone?

I want us to win it all and still believe we can, but tonight was a serious challenge to that. So I just want to say that if we can't win get that championship I want it to go to a team that I respect. So stay healthy Spurs...

I can only hope. I agree with you about the Bulls and I hate that fact because Noah decided to run his mouth off about KG. We're just proving the jerk right. But I'm just venting. You're right about the playoffs. That's what the Celtics were built for. Just hope I don't eat those words...

This is not a bandwagon post. Think of it as a last will of sorts. I am in no way a Spurs fan. But I am so tired of the cockiness from the Bulls, Heat and Lakers... and also very depressed about tonight's game. The Celtics weren't exactly at their best but the Bulls are the real deal... which is painful because I know how much certain players on that team wanted to dig it into us. Joakim Noah vis a vis Kevin Garnett anyone? I want us to win it all and still believe we can, but tonight was a serious challenge to that. So I just want to say that if we can't win get that championship I want it to go to a team that I respect. So stay healthy Spurs... And Celtics, PLEASE find a way...Posted by MsLithium21

This coming from the same person who created the "Positive Fan Thread"???

And Jonestown, I'm really amazed that you'd play that card, considering I'm the only one right now trying to keep the positivity of that thread going. Just look at that thread and see the extent to which Rico's bullying me over there and how no one's saying anything in my defense.

Am I allowed to be human?

Am I allowed to - after this pathetic game - consider the serious possibility that the Celtics just don't have what it takes to beat the Bulls this season?

Am I allowed to be angry that Joakim Noah would publicly trash our Kevin Garnett, calling him "ugly" among other things? Am I allowed to be upset that he's prospering against us right now after saying such things and that he's obviously loving it? Am I allowed to get upset seeing the same cocky expressions on his teammates' faces?

Am I allowed to be just as upset that the Heat are prospering too after having that over-the-top press conference basically pre-celebrating their expected championship last summer?

And I allowed to prefer the Lakers over either of those teams but, being a Celtics fan, am I allowed to want to see the Lakers lose too because that's just the nature of the rivalry?

Am I allowed to search among the NBA's elite for a team other than us who is not over-the-top cocky and self-aggrandizing and wish success for them if we're kept from enjoying that success this year?

I'm grieving here. I feel worse about this game than I do any of those losses to cellar dwellars because I am now forced to confront the possibility that the Bulls - after all their trash talking of us - are in fact the better team this year. We all are, and trust me, we all have our ways of dealing with it.

MsLithium, you need to put things in perspective. First this was just ONE game. Second, Doc told his players to run with the Bulls. I believe Rivers now knows you should NEVER run an much older team against a young team. That's just playing into the Bull's strength and frankly, I was surprised to witness Rivers apply such a strategy.

The playoffs will be a different season with a slower tempo. Not to take anything away from the Bulls, but the Celtics will be much better able to compete with a slower tempo. No one knows who's going to win it the title this year.

As for wishing the Spurs win it if Boston doesn't make it out of the East, everyone's entitled to root for a team, but I wouldn't do that. If the Lakers don't make it out of the West, I'm not going to cheer for any team that isn't Boston. I'll just sit back and evaluate the competition, see who wins, and analyze the reasons for why the winner succeeded.

The criticism directed against Garnett has to do with his taunting, verbally lashing out at opposing players. That type of behavior draws attention, both negative from oppoenents and positive from his fans. So I understand why Noah said what he said. Noah said negative things Lebron as well.

Rsalas, thank you for your thoughts. I've honestly met very few Laker fans who are not always trying to shove their achievements in the past 30 years down our Celtics fan throats, so I'm a little jaded when it comes to your team. But I always find your insights to be remarkably wise and fair. You're one of two Laker fans on this board whose posts I always look forward to reading. So thank you for being here.

Yeah, I was surprised with Doc's strategy too. It seemed to play right into the Bulls hands and go against what the Celtics usually try to do with the pace of the game. I can't really figure that one out. Yes, things will (hopefully) be different in the playoffs in terms of being able to control the tempo. But this loss, even though it is ONE game, is more troubling than any other this year. It is really just the 3rd time that we lost to a team because they were BETTER, and what I mean by that is that it could not be explained away by saying we played down to the competition. The 1st time was Christmas to the Magic and the 2nd was of course to your Lakers in February. We've answered the Magic since and, well, if we meet you guys in the finals at this point I will just be grateful to have gotten that far.

You really would cheer for our Celtics if pigs fly and the Lakers don't make the finals? I'm honored. For what it's worth, I think you guys would beat the Spurs anyway and I'd cheer for you over the Bulls or the Heat, if we don't make it. Really. I would. And notice I even mentioned that in the post you responded to. :)

I have to say the Lakers and Bulls are the two best teams in the league right now and between the two I would actually route for you guys. Yes, partly because...

I do have to disagree with you about Noah. I am fully aware of why Noah said what he said, but it was inappropriate to say it publicly and to add extra personal comments. Trash talking and taunting are pretty common in the NBA. I'm sure you remember how famous Kobe and Ray were for doing it to each other back when Seattle had a team. I used to deal with it even at the high school level - as a girl! It's part of the game. I heard a lot of it because I was a particularly tenacious defender - and on two occasions had the other team's point guard physically attack me for it! But the thing is, we shook hands at the end and and in one case we eventually became friends. My point is, you handle grievances with other players on the court, or at least player to player. You don't publicly trash them and go over the top like Noah did. Do you think it's OK that he called KG "ugly?" He did. Look it up! Does THAT not qualify as trash talking? I think it's worse because he did it publicly. It's interesting though, that he trashed LeBron too. I never realized that.

But your post is still well taken. I'll be the 1st to admit that I get overly passionate about my sports teams - and the Celtics most of all. In many ways, I'm jealous of you Laker fans because you pretty much always have good teams. Even in the 90s your slow periods were brief and un-dramatic, no 2nd-worst-record-in-the-league deals. We obviously have it different. Part of me feels this sense of urgency because I keep hearing about this stupid "window of opportunity" the Celtics have because of how "old" they are (basically my age) and then when it's over, do we get another 22 years or frustration and bad luck? You can be pretty sure that even if you don't 3-peat, you'll have a shot at winning it all next year. I don't know if we will. And I know you've said that your team will eventually slip, but you've never slipped as far as we did last decade. Part of that is better management on your part... and in the 80s and 90s, we had two key young players die. I don't expect that but I'm still scarred from the Bias and Lewis tragedies... And I still remember what it was like for us to finally win it all again after 22 years, how good that felt. I was almost as emotional as Garnett was! My sense of urgency comes from the thought that it could be years before we experience that again, after having waited so long in the 1st place.

But life will go on no matter what. Thank you for your insights. You are truly an asset to this board. Hopefully our two teams will make it to the finals and we'll all get to talk about that!

M'Lady- I partially agree with you in your original post about wanting the spurs as oppossed to the lakers because the Lakers are the biggest threat to our legacy as basketball's preeminent franchise. I believe the Noah thing is in the past and it hasn't resurfaced since then, so let it die a natural death..Also Garnett outplayed Noah last night and they battled like true warriors without any evident "ugliness". I don't like Noah personally but admire his motor and the way he plays the game. I personally like KG but am dismayed at times at his"intensity" that sometimes entails dirty play that prompts responses such as Noah's in the 1st place (misplaced and inarticulate as it was). However, please don't backtrack on your original thought of the Lakers ultimate demise (because of a rare respectful Laker fan). It would be like a red sox fan rooting for the yankees in any game; its just a hard pill to swallow.. Respectfully yours

Bulls are a serious team, but the playoffs are a different animal. I'm not really sure where the Celtics heads were today, but this should have been a statement game for them in Chicago. People praise Rose all the time, and he is a champion. But the teams spark-plug for me is Noah, he's their heart and soul. A bit how Garnett is for the Celtics.

In the West. The Spurs? Seriously they are with us a true champion team. Duncan is one of the most underrated players to ever play in the NBA. I have to admit if they do come out of the West, I'd be cheering for them in the play offs. Seeing Duncan win a 5th championship would be incredible. Have nothing but respect for what he has accomplished and what the Spurs organisation has done during and before his arrival. Parker and Manu are another pair of VERY underrated players. Two more champions.

Would be a little conflicted though as my family other than my little Sister are Celtics fans. I'd be happy for them to win for them. But part of me would love to see Duncan and the Spurs win one last title.

I don't know if they'll come out of the West though. They may have gotten over that losing streak they were on. Which for their fans must have been alarming so close to the play offs. However we're also in one now at the worst time of the season. Injuries maybe playing a part but it's frustrating seeing how well it's gone since the All Star break. To lose momentum like this is concerning.

To be honest I have trouble picking teams to make the finals. The sides with momentum now are The Bulls and maybe The Spurs. The Celtics are playing up and down basketball. I know they claim that they'll "turn it on" in the playoffs but one day they'll come around and guess what? They won't be able to "turn it one". Same can be said for the Lakers at the moment. Injuries may be playing a role, but I don't know.

M'Lady- I partially agree with you in your original post about wanting the spurs as oppossed to the lakers because the Lakers are the biggest threat to our legacy as basketball's preeminent franchise. I believe the Noah thing is in the past and it hasn't resurfaced since then, so let it die a natural death..Also Garnett outplayed Noah last night and they battled like true warriors without any evident "ugliness". I don't like Noah personally but admire his motor and the way he plays the game. I personally like KG but am dismayed at times at his"intensity" that sometimes entails dirty play that prompts responses such as Noah's in the 1st place (misplaced and inarticulate as it was). However, please don't backtrack on your original thought of the Lakers ultimate demise (because of a rare respectful Laker fan). It would be like a red sox fan rooting for the yankees in any game; its just a hard pill to swallow.. Respectfully yoursPosted by tomobo

There's more of us out there. It's just that you get some boneheads making louder noise than us. I guess every team has it's bad fans which embarrass the majority.

I like what you said about Noah. He mirrors Garnett with his intensity and the way he approaches the game. It scares me as he has such room for continued improvement. Certainly a player to watch over the next decade. I actually admire Garnett for what he brings to the court. He's the most intense Celtic since Bird and brings so much to the team. Seriously expect to see his number retired in both Boston and Minneapolis. Even if he is only a member of one championship team in Boston. He WAS that championship.

Rose will get the accolades if Chicago win. But it's a team game and Noah is the emotional heart of Chicago. He's a joy to watch. Probably one of my favourite players right now. Surprising how people were calling him a bust a couple of years ago. Some guys you just have to be patient with, he was one of them.

Celtics have it all over Miami this year. And I HOPE Miami go out early because I loath that team. Really do want to see a Bulls/Celtics conference final. It'll be a classic like their last finals meeting. Not good for the nervous systems of the teams fans. But fun for other people to watch. Old guard vs the new. Rivers vs Thibodeau. Wow! I hope both teams make the dance as it'll be special.

This is not a bandwagon post. Think of it as a last will of sorts. I am in no way a Spurs fan. But I am so tired of the cockiness from the Bulls, Heat and Lakers... and also very depressed about tonight's game. The Celtics weren't exactly at their best but the Bulls are the real deal... which is painful because I know how much certain players on that team wanted to dig it into us. Joakim Noah vis a vis Kevin Garnett anyone? I want us to win it all and still believe we can, but tonight was a serious challenge to that. So I just want to say that if we can't win get that championship I want it to go to a team that I respect. So stay healthy Spurs... And Celtics, PLEASE find a way...Posted by MsLithium21

Ms Lithium……..

I love your passion. I am a super senior in my 70's and a Boston Teams fan going back to Cousy/Sharman days(Red Sox…Williams, Dimaggio etc.). In my youth I remember when our teams lost I couldn't get to sleep for hours and couldn't wait for the next game to try & get over the previous loss. With the great Celtic teams with Russell, Bird, McHale, Parish etc. I had tremendous satisfaction & gloating rights as although I was born in New England, went to school there , the Military first & then my working career after took me to California, I've been here(SF Bay Area) for 45+ years. I'm a local team fan too…hate the Lakers, Dodgers, Previously LA Rams etc….but roots run deep and I'm a Boston fan first even when they play local teams.

I got over my severe depression after Boston losses after my teens and it was really frustrating if you are a Sox fan as I went through 4 world series… 1946, 1967, 1975 & 1986 the most ugly loss (Bill Buckner) when they didn't win. Their comeback from 0-3 with the Yankees and then undefeated thereafter for their first title since early 1900s was probably my most gratifying Boston teams victory. Then the loss to the Lakers last year in game 7 when I felt they were robbed with disparity in foul shots made me relive, and I'm in my 70s, nausea & grief for weeks, months even writing on the Tainted Title forum that went to almost 1000 posts(don't remember you there---Rajon Randowski was a major contributor).

The reason I was especially saddened with the unjust loss to the Lakers, I & many other people & sport writers felt too, was that I always like rooting for an older player/team and I worry that last year may have been the last hurrah for the Big 3. Also, I like rooting for underdogs.With your preference for the Spurs if we don't make it, I like your choice because Duncan, Ginobli & Parker are not youngster either and they are a class act. But, truth be told, I will root for anyone vs. the Lakers. Same as I do for anyone vs. Yankees. I don't like them threatening our leadership with titles.

RE your comment:

"I'm grieving here. I feel worse about this game than I do any of those losses to cellar dwellars because I am now forced to confront the possibility that the Bulls - after all their trash talking of us - are in fact the better team this year. We all are, and trust me, we all have our ways of dealing with it."

I play in a super seniors USTA tennis league and tennis is supposed to be almost like golf, a gentlemens' sport. You can't believe the trash talk but remember the old "sticks & stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you". Noah's mouth didn't beat us, their quickness, youth etc. did. Noah is to be admired a bit as his father, Yannick, wanted him to follow in his tennis footsteps & rallied with him, jogged with him & boxed with him administering some beatings too but Joakim to be respected chose basketball. Hopefully, and they say in life that falling down is not the worse thing but it's the ability to pick your self up, that Rivers learns that we need to play a different slow down the tempo game with this younger team. Also, if we get Shaq back it'll help tremendously in the paint & he'll take care of Joakim.

You also very wisely said that if we lose, life goes on. I've been depressed about Red Sox 0-6 start & facing the dreaded Yankees this weekend. Remember, these guys make millions whether they win or lose. But keep in mind the truly important things going on in the world, Japan Nuclear problem, Libya stalemate, atrocities in Africa etc.

I will want any team that is playing against the FAKERS to win. The Celtics can go 1-81 and the Fakers 0-82 and I would happy.Honestly last years loss stings, but not like the baby hook by Magic in 87. That one really hurted.

Im not throwing in the tile until the elimination game and its less than a few ticks on the clock. Until then GO GREEN!!!!!

Come on MsLithium don't give up on us now. Go to the positive thread you made, I guarantee it will make you feel much better, it worked for me. We are all feeling down after we thought we were suppose to send a message to the Bulls and they were the ones delivering a loud and clear message. I only hope we get a better record than the Lakers. Feel well soon.Posted by RicoCeltic

This is not a bandwagon post. Think of it as a last will of sorts. I am in no way a Spurs fan. But I am so tired of the cockiness from the Bulls, Heat and Lakers... and also very depressed about tonight's game. The Celtics weren't exactly at their best but the Bulls are the real deal... which is painful because I know how much certain players on that team wanted to dig it into us. Joakim Noah vis a vis Kevin Garnett anyone? I want us to win it all and still believe we can, but tonight was a serious challenge to that. So I just want to say that if we can't win get that championship I want it to go to a team that I respect. So stay healthy Spurs... And Celtics, PLEASE find a way...Posted by MsLithium21

Lith,Luol Deng scored 25 points....................Luol Deng!!When will that happen in the playoffs?Losing by 14 to a team that really really really wanted it with two of our Big 3 not even remotely caring or playing D(Keith Bogans.....really?) is not the end of the world (not good, either, since we should try to win every game). So, relax.......someday soon, we will actually have a FULL roster....the one we were supposed to have at the beginning of the year. You know, Shaq, JON, KG, Baby (Perk was out) and add to that Kristic, who isn't bad.....and Jeff Green, who is a stud!!I think CHI better be wary of ORL.....they are more experienced, and have DH!! Right now, the Bulls are the Cavs of last year. One great player, some okay players, and good D........................nothing to worry about yet!

@ Tomobo - Yeah, I probably shouldn't go back on my original intent, should I? Thank you for recognizing that I kind of did because of - as you put it - "the rare respectful Lakers fan," and not because of being crazy, which is how I've felt the past 16 hours! Truth be told, people like RUWorthy and Rsalas make the Lakers' success a little less painful, but I'd probably find myself gunning for the Spurs once those teams are playing each other. My history with the Celtics and Lakers is just too long... and it would be like routing for the Yankees. I could never do that. The only time I kind of did was 3 years ago when we were fighting Tampa for 1st place and even that felt weird. I did mean what I said though about preferring the Lakers over the Bulls and ESPECIALLY the Heat. You're probably right about Noah. I should let that go. It just still hurts because he never apologized publicly. If he said it publicly he should apologize publicly. But I'm hurting myself more than anything else by holding onto it so, I will try...

@RUWorthy - When I told Rsalas he was one of only two decent Laker fans I'd met on this board, I was implicitly referring to you as the other! You and I haven't directly spoken till now but everything I said to compliment him also applies to you. Most of the Laker fans I've known, even outside this board, are egotistical and immature. And you're remarkably level headed and insightful when talking about our teams. I'm sure some of your empathy comes from having Celtics fans in your family. Your comments are always welcome here. At least I'll have someone to congratulate when your team does what I feel is the inevitable. I never count them out, and I think that comes from my experiences watching the Bird-Magic teams. Sometimes I think we're trying to emulate you guys by holding back so we can turn it on, but your team's the master of that, and even if you got into the playoffs as an 8th seed and were down 0-3 in the 1st round, and down by 20 in the 4th quarter of game 4, I wouldn't count you out. Yeah, like that's ever gonna happen anyway...

@Mandobello - Yeah, you know exactly what I'm going through! I have the same passion for Boston teams that you do, and like you, my move to the West Coast didn't dampen that one bit. Seattle actually has a very similar culture to San Francisco when it comes to disdaining LA teams - though it's not as intense, and in basketball it certainly didn't help that we no longer have a team. I wish I could have been around in the Cousy-Sharman days - and all the way through the end of the 60s for that matter - and know the Celtics as the dominant team they were back then. I was spoiled in a way in that I first started watching the Celtics in Spring '84. That run they had was easily the best few months of my life up to that point. Then of course their finals loss in '85 was crushing but in those days I KNEW they'd be back and just had a hunch they'd win it all in '86. I don't know about you, but that season felt like a dream. Not only were we damm good, but the fates were with us, so to speak. The one season Bill Walton was totally healthy, for starters... For several years after '87, I always felt or at least hoped another championship was just around the corner... till we lost Reggie Lewis. But I still never dreamed it would be another 15 years after that before we got back there. In many ways our '08 championship felt like the Red Sox in '04. So sweet because we had to go through so much time and pain to get there. In Celtics history, 22 years may as well be a century! Interestingly, last year's loss reminded me of the Red Sox in '03. And all felt right in the universe when the Red Sox followed that up with a title. But it wasn't all smooth for them either. Remember when people were calling Francona FranCOMA? I was hoping our Celtics would follow it up the same way this year. I really want that for them. As I've said, I consider these guys to be good men as well as good players. So I wanted the Big 3 to have a longer run than 3 or 4 years. They really do deserve it...

@JDM - yeah, I know the feeling. It gets tempered by people like RUWorthy and Rsalas. But I soooo completely know the feeling!

@Hedley - Thanks for backing me up with Rico and for your intelligent, common sense approach to last night's game. I have to believe at this point that our guys are incapable of playing a regular season at the same intensity they give to the playoffs. I think they're almost trying to tell themselves it's a playoff game, but that's not going to work. I really hope we are blessed with that full roster sometime this year because I still believe we can win it all with it. Not sweeping our way through the playoffs but prevailing in every series. I also have to say I love your quotes, particularly the one from Red. Thank YOU for being here! It certainly helps to have a teacher on this forum, especially in times like these.

I know its traditional with Boston fans to call the Lakers "fakers," but there is nothing fake about the success L.A. has achieved this decade. The other denigrating term is to refer to Kobe as "The Rapist." That bothers me for a number of reasons but the one that stands out is the Colorado law itself that could result in some innocent men being locked away based on the accusation of an unethical/unstable woman.

Rapists need to be put away. I want to make that clear. Criminals who are guilty must be punished for the crime they committed. I believe in justice and proportionality (the punishment must fit the crime). But the Colorado law as written is dangerous for simply relying on the accusation of a woman with no witnesses.

I'll give a quick example: Potential FBI agents are tested to see if they can select the right person in a line-up after an exercise where a man runs up to a lady to simulate stealing her purse. The majority fail the test in spite of the fact that they witnessed the incident from about 10 feet away.

As for Joakim Noah, I like the guy's intensity, but I would never call someone ugly. I also like Derrick Rose. Did you know that Kyle Korver is paid $2 million (Korver makes about $5 million per year) more than Noah? Boozer makes $14 million, Luol Deng makes $11 million, & Rose makes $4.5 million. Life isn't fair.

I no longer watch Laker games as they occur. I record them and watch them after the fact. If L.A. loses, I don't bother. I'll just read the details from sports analysts/reporters. Like I said, I'm not going to invest any emotional stress on the NBA. With other teams (Bulls/Celtics yesterday), I'll watch and evaluate why one team won compared to the other.

Outside of being a Laker fan, and NBA fan, I focus on my work. Like I said, I've learned not to allow a sporting event affect my emotional state. That can be unhealthy. MsLithium and the rest of you posters. If any of you are getting emotionally sick for even a day or more after your team loses, try and focus on something else, hit the gym, go for a run or a long walk. Stress shortens a person's life. Good luck to all of you. :)