> "What skiis (sic) should I buy?", followed by no further information whatsover.

Then 50 posts later the OP thanks everyone for their contributions. And reveals they have been skiing since before Arnold Lunn was born and they will just stick with their 8 ft long hickories from 1937.

In reply to Robert Durran: We have a 'Starting Out' forum of new/inexperienced climbers to ask questions so that newbie-intolerant users can just not read it. Maybe we need the same for those starting out skiing?

I fancy having a look at The Hurting. The only thing is I have to be back by tea-time to do my home work. To shave some time off the walk in and walk out is it an option to fit crampons to touring boots and does anyone have experience of tackling routes like these with skis strapped to your back.

In reply to Slugain Howff:
so 2012...
the new in thing is to tackle it with teleboots... not the new fangled ntn ones- the real thing duckbill lace-ups.
The real question: will my mono-point still have enough purchase on the Hurting?

In reply to parafinn: ok, joking aside, i am a newbie/numpty to skiing & im wanting to get into ski touring, mainly in scotland to begin with, im assuming everyone one on here are skiers?
so advice time, im looking to get some good all round alpine touring skis, but confused by all the different types/sizes etc etc
so... what colour skis should i get?

I bet the hard men a few decades ago, have skied steeper, farther and faster than most folk here wearing just that (or similar). Doesn't make it perfect or the best option, but generally kit today is far too engineered, way beyond most users ability.

Look at the climbing routes that are Grade V, like Smith's, originally done with 1 axe. You can transfer the same thinking to the ski world too.

ps. Yes I've skied in semi rigid leather boots, on piste, with ski mountaineering bindings, it wasn't great!! I also have some of those duck billed leather boots for my 190cm 20+yr old skis, but mainly used for shortish trips out walking the dogs now. Sometimes you cut the cloth to suit the budget or ability and not the ego. ;)

> (In reply to Scomuir)
>
> Overheard more times than I can remember - More a brash sweeping statement than a question (read with a loud S.E. England twang)
>
> "Yeh, oy went skiing in Scotland wif d'schewl at Aviemore once. It was bleeding crap!"
>

Yep, we've all done our fair share of pissing and moaning about the things that Cairngorm's operators might have got better over the years but Edradour implied that the skiing above Aviemore and in Scotland generally was 'crap' and as most people who ski our mountains regularly know, it just isn't. Pissing and moaning about things like the snow conditions and queuing in that winterhighland thread link isn't unique to Cairngorm either, but because it's the busiest lift served ski area in the British Isles and like every other mountain in Britain doesn't have a reliable Alpine climate to keep numbers up day after day, on the busiest days it will always attract a lot more comment because there's more people to do the pissing and moaning and they'll have more queues to piss and moan about too. And as high mileage skiing on soft corduroy with Tartiflette or Tiroler Grostl stops isn't the reason why skiers and boarders continue to enjoy British mountains, it's not fair to assume that the skiing on Cairngorm (or anywhere else in Britain), is 'crap' because you can't get spoon-feed perfect powder by a guide, the piste grooming isn't flattering and pristine, the lifts aren't modern and efficient and you can't get pished up every night surrounded by a load of like-mindeds like you can on your holidays in the French or Austrian Alps. Whether that's why Erdradour thinks it's crap though, who knows ?

>"BTW Moffatross: have you thought of bobbing down to Raise? You would be welcome."<

Thanks, I'd love to ski at Raise and even with an all area season pass for Scotland that still owes me another 8 days this year, from photos and reports I've seen, Raise looks like a real English gem and worth paying for. It's difficult to drag myself away from very local hills sometimes though and often when the Lakes are getting their best snow conditions, the Southern Uplands are too and this descent off Hart Fell above Moffat on Saturday was priceless .. http://i45.tinypic.com/16lydjk.jpg

Whats wrong with asking for advice? I'm off soon to France, and it's tricky to find transfers which aren't on the weekend. I'm not well off so can't really afford to pay a fortune for a private taxi. Should I not ask, just because it upsets you?

> (In reply to A Game of Chance)
>
> Whats wrong with asking for advice? I'm off soon to France, and it's tricky to find transfers which aren't on the weekend. I'm not well off so can't really afford to pay a fortune for a private taxi. Should I not ask, just because it upsets you?

EDIT - I took your comment as 'methods' rather than 'geographical directions'. If I'm wrong, then I sincerely apologise!

> (In reply to parafinn)
> [...]
>
> Pissing and moaning about things like the snow conditions and queuing in that winterhighland thread link isn't unique to Cairngorm either, but because it's the busiest lift served ski area in the British Isles and like every other mountain in Britain doesn't have a reliable Alpine climate to keep numbers up day after day, on the busiest days it will always attract a lot more comment because there's more people to do the pissing and moaning and they'll have more queues to piss and moan about too. And as high mileage skiing on soft corduroy with Tartiflette or Tiroler Grostl stops isn't the reason why skiers and boarders continue to enjoy British mountains, it's not fair to assume that the skiing on Cairngorm (or anywhere else in Britain), is 'crap' because you can't get spoon-feed perfect powder by a guide, the piste grooming isn't flattering and pristine, the lifts aren't modern and efficient and you can't get pished up every night surrounded by a load of like-mindeds like you can on your holidays in the French or Austrian Alps. Whether that's why Erdradour thinks it's crap though, who knows ?
>

I'm sorry that this is off topic but I can't abide this sanctimonious attitude about Scottish skiing.

There is some great ski touring in Scotland but all the points above are strong evidence that Cairngorm (and the other Scottish ski resorts) are crap ski resorts.

You don't know me and you don't know why I go skiing but since, by your own admission, the pistes aren't groomed well, the lifts are substandard, the facilities are poor and the snow conditions are often less than ideal, it is fair to expect that Scottish skiing would be significantly cheaper than the Alpine alternative. It is not and that is why I think it is crap. A weekend in Scotland is no cheaper than a weekend in Chamonix and I am always certainly going to have a better time in Chamonix, regardless of what type of skiing I want to do; touring, off piste, park, piste laps or having fun with my friends (on the slope and off).

If you enjoy skiing in Scotland because it is close to you and, therefore, worth doing then that's great - I'm happy for you but, for most people, that is not the case.

Yeh, right!
Raise 22 days of operation this season, so far and due to run again Friday / Saturday. Queues have only formed when the friendly relaxed members get chatting and forget to get the queue moving. The 1 hr walk up tends to weed out the more feeble skiers/boarders who want it all on a plate. Also I never sure on the Pennines which way is up the slope and which is down.
Come across to Raise and we will make you welcome.

In reply to parafinn: sounds good there this year. I normally skied Weardale, north facing, so generally more snow and more days than Yad Moss, also lower membership fee, though at either of their prices this is not a consideration. Weardale have a piste basher, which is only used on the lower slopes and a hut, so a good set up overall. I have skied Raise too, yes, the walk in sorts out the wheat from the chaff! This year, I don't know how many days they've had, as luckily I live in Sweden now, so I don't have to chase winter conditions for climbing and skiing anymore. But, yes I've found all these northern england ski places to be fantastic hidden gems, with great members.

> (In reply to Trangia)
> [...]
>
> In fairness I've done some stuff up to AD+ in my alpine boots including Mont Blanc and the Haute Route.
>
> Not sure if AD+ counts as climbing?

You are right. When I did the Haute Route in 1966 we had to revert to crampons on the touring boots to get over some of the cols when it became too steep to side step, and also to climb some of the peaks en route. We also diverted for a couple of days to climb Monte Rosa again in touring boots for the final 300m ridge on Dufourspitz normal route which IIRC is about PD+ leaving our skis on the col.

>"I'm sorry that this is off topic but I can't abide this sanctimonious attitude about Scottish skiing."<

You took the thread off-topic when you said that Scottish skiing was crap but I don't understand what you mean about me having a sanctimonious attitude. I don't think that the Alps are crap and I love to ski 2 to 3 weeks in France, Switzerland and Austria every winter in addition to 20+ days in Scotland so I just don't see how I can be the one with any kind of prejudice. You obviously don't ski in Scotland much but you think Scotland's crap, so it's you that's making the value judgements ;-)

In a nutshell, I disagreed after you'd said that Scottish skiing was 'crap' without explaining why and also said that Scottish skiing shouldn't be considered 'crap' because it isn't like the Alps before I even knew why you thought it was 'crap'. You then reiterated that Scottish skiing was 'crap' and explained it wasn't just because it's not like the Alps but was also because it isn't cheaper for you.

I understand your reasons for preferring to spend the same money on Chamonix but again, that's your value judgement, for your circumstances.

>"If you enjoy skiing in Scotland because it is close to you and, therefore, worth doing then that's great - I'm happy for you but, for most people, that is not the case."<

Agreed. But why say that skiing in Scotland is 'crap' when you don't even do it ?

> (In reply to Edradour)
> [...]
>
> But why say that skiing in Scotland is 'crap' when you don't even do it ?

I have done it. Many times, and each time I have asked myself why I bother. You can use whatever adjective you want but pisted skiing in Scotland (which I was making my initial offhand remark about) has poor quality uplift, is expensive, the runs are short and badly maintained, the snow is wildly variable (even when the resort websites say 'most runs are open and in good condition' this is rarely the case) and the facilities are poor. To most people that would constitute 'crap'.

We have a difference of opinion and that is fine. I hope you continue to enjoy your skiing, wherever that takes place!

>"By crap I mean: No snow at all, icy, breakable crust, clagged in, bottomless wet mank, too windy, dangerous windslab, raining, stitching together a route through unconnected patches. Let's just accept it for what it is: Sometimes brilliant but often crap."<

Yep, every silver lining has a cloud and those terms could sometimes describe the conditions encountered as you travelled from summit to valley in the Alps too. Not directly comparing Scotland with say La Grave BTW, just saying ...

> (In reply to Dave Kerr)> (In reply to moffatross)
> Yep, every silver lining has a cloud and those terms could sometimes describe the conditions encountered as you travelled from summit to valley in the Alps too. Not directly comparing Scotland with say La Grave BTW, just saying ...

Yep, here now in Sweden and Norway, many of the lower tows are between 0 and +1 after that big depression blasted through, it's back to below zero by tea time, but that means the lower runs will be sheet ice, just like Scotland, where as the past few weeks have been fantastic. Also the upper runs at some places have had their tows closed due to high winds. Some people probably booked a week away here, expecting some awesome skiing and got what could be described as 'good' scottish condition instead! ;)