I just MoHoled a (drill angle to Cg) 55-5-40 pin above the bridge Hammer Nail. I was able to pitch the MoHole towards the heavy quadrant and was able to keep statically legal. I also pushed the hole to the right and closer to my track to help accommodate it as well. I did not need to drill the fingers any deeper to keep legal. Started with 7/8"x4" hole and got minimal change in flare separation and reaction. It did become more angular. Went back and opened up the hole to 1" and saw a significant change in flare and reaction. Still no need to take the 4000 grit shine off the ball. I am thinking another 1/8" and I will need some surface. I still need some more time on the lanes with it before I decide if I want to make it larger.

I had specifically asked Mo about my Nail and he said go for it.When I listed the layout there I used the center of the thumb for the drill angleFrom the MOtion Hole - Video - How To & Demonstration threadviewtopic.php?f=13&t=7374&hilit=motion+hole&start=480post 393,394 page 25

EricHartwell wrote:

I have a Hammer Nail #13 RG (2.53) Diff (.055)Drilled 70-5-40 Pin is directly above the bridge cg is just below the ring finger Pin is 3-5/8" from grip centerPost drilled 1/4oz top 3/4oz side 1/2oz FingerFactory finish 800 Abranet®, 1000, 2000, 4000 Abralon­®, Powerhouse™ Factory Finish PolishThis ball is great on a broken down house shot Until Ive moved in to 4th arrow trying to get it out to the breakpoint outside the 10 board It just seems to run out of carry. Also it is way to jumpy on the fresh lanes, Would love to put some surface on it and be able to use it for all 3 games.

I wipe with micro fiber towel every shot and clean when set is over. However, I believe lane shine occurs within 25 games or so with most balls ending up around 4000.

I will experiment and ultimately get some Siaair pads.

In addition Eric et al:

The Guru at 55x3.5x35 has the best ball motion I have ever had in my 62 years of bowling. Possibly it is a combination of layout and ball (first Radical for me). If I wanted same motion/continuation but something I could go to in third game of league what should I do? Same ball with modified layout or different ball with same layout?

The Guru at 55x3.5x35 has the best ball motion I have ever had in my 62 years of bowling. Possibly it is a combination of layout and ball (first Radical for me). If I wanted same motion/continuation but something I could go to in third game of league what should I do? Same ball with modified layout or different ball with same layout?

I would suggest a ball with a weaker coverstock with a similar layout/ratio to be determined when you decide on the ball. I would definitely want to take the ball into consideration before deciding on the layout.

I purchased another Guru Master and want to ball down for third game in league. I love the motion of my 55x3.5x35. Could I go 60x3.5x40 with the second ball?

In my opinion, no. That's a really subtle layout change, that you could likely accomplish with a slight tweak to hand position (cock/tilt) and save carrying another ball.

I have every Guru, including multiples of the original and Master. The Master is my go-to ball for long/short sport and I use it a lot on THS as well, especially in the lower friction houses.

They need oil in the heads. If I can start left of everyone else, and stay left, then there are times when I can use it the entire block. If I get sandwiched, then it loses too much energy once I move into someone else's track. At that point, it's a big zone jump or just ball down and stay put (or move right) with something like a Primo (pearl), Jackpot (pearl), Mighty (4000/polished), etc.

You could try a low flaring layout (like 100-2.5-45, etc) on the Master, and a lot less surface (2000/4000, even polish) but my experiments with that and the Guru have not been successful. This works really well for some people, but it doesn't work for me with my ball speed and release characteristics. I haven't found a condition that I like it on (yet).

I am much better off with a Primo, Jackpot, etc with a control layout, not trying to play left of 4th arrow with the strong ball. That's just me.

If you're not getting too deep, and the heads are not too beaten up, then yes - you might be able to use the Master effectively with a weaker drilling and less surface. Your high axis rotation is something that I can't duplicate, and it might be the key.

I purchased another Guru Master and want to ball down for third game in league. I love the motion of my 55x3.5x35. Could I go 60x3.5x40 with the second ball?

Actually I am deeper to begin but the motion and continuation is so great and needed at this particular house with not very aggressive back ends generally.

Or could I drill the same and adjust surface higher than the 500/1500 Siiair?

Other balls in my current arsenal just do not have the hit needed in this center.

Just wondering the best way to go.....

Thanks....

A minor layout change like you propose is not enough of a change like Steve mentioned. But if you were to tweek the layout AND take the surface to 2000/4000 you would have something different enough. Maintaining the dull surface on your first Supreme will be the key to keeping those balls with different reactions. Let it get lane shined and you will basically have 2 of the same after a while.

There is so much room for experimentation when it comes to surface, that I think you can dial it in over time. For those "game 3" transition type balls, I am having success with things like 500 + compound, or 500/1000 + polish.

The rougher "under" surface seems to provide some control and help with over/under, but the polish helps get it through the front more cleanly. A true 500/2000/4000 + polish can be pretty jumpy for me during transition.

Ideally, "lane shine" will do what you want without a lot of ongoing maintenance...

You could try a low flaring layout (like 100-2.5-45, etc) on the Master, and a lot less surface (2000/4000, even polish) but my experiments with that and the Guru have not been successful. This works really well for some people, but it doesn't work for me with my ball speed and release characteristics. I haven't found a condition that I like it on (yet).

Ok, so now I've found a condition for it. Bowling on Turnpike today and found that I could use the control/polished Guru and stay around the track area once things had gotten beaten up. Had some nice scores, and was able to control the pocket and carry.

Alternately, I could jump left and try and open things up with Paradox Trilogy, then play a sport drilled Guru Master as things flattened out again. The 100-2.5-45 Guru seemed to be the best overall look, paralleling left when it started to read early.

Only issue is that I'm flaring over the middle finger. That pin position isn't good for my high track.

On the Radical less hook/big hit asymm 90x2.25x50 w/p1 what is the p1 for? What size and how deep if used.

The layout will more than likely require a balance hole. A Balance hole other than P1 is going to raise the flare and give more hook. You could go with a P1.5 if there is too much thumb weight. It will be located below the grip midline and will only raise the differential minimally keeping the low flare reaction intact.

I redrilled one guru at 110x1.25x60 that allows me to not fight our low volume shot and have trialed some surface changes at 1500 and 1000 but slightly more "pop" is needed. What about balance hole down the val or a p3 trial? What does anyone think? I just want a slight increase at the back.

I redrilled one guru at 110x1.25x60 that allows me to not fight our low volume shot and have trialed some surface changes at 1500 and 1000 but slightly more "pop" is needed. What about balance hole down the val or a p3 trial? What does anyone think? I just want a slight increase at the back.

This is a situation when I would like to know where the actual PSA is located by spinning it on a DeTerminator. Then use the Gradient line from there.

How close is the thumb hole to the P3 location?

I am thinking your best bet is a Double Thumb hole.Start small, 3/4" x 2.5", push it to 3" deep before making the hole larger. I would also take note of the change in the flare pattern as you adjust the hole larger. Specifically the flare ring overlap. More overlap will yield less reaction.

I can't tell you how this will turn out. I have never tried to bring back the reaction of such a low flare set up.Do post your results.

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