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An introduction: you can call me Doctor Loot

Happy Friday, everyone. I’d like to introduce myself as a bit of a new dev face on the forums. First, it’s about time I quit lurking, and second, I’m putting on an additional hat on the DDO team. What hat is that? In a word: loot. I’m here to listen to you and to keep my eyes on the big picture. Yes, that includes avoiding Ghostbane-situations.

So in the name of listening rather than blathering on and on, I’d like to ask you all a few questions as a sort of pulse-check on the state of loot. Go on and fill up the thread – I’ll check back in after the weekend (and a bit today, as schedule permits), with head-nods, follow-up questions, and answers where necessary.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?
- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?
- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your characters are currently wearing.

(In the future, I’m planning some similar question sessions about named loot and named loot systems, BTW.)

My main when at level 28 always wears bracers of +10 con +10 protection ac as bracers are less used by her.
She loves her cloak which is a busy spot for her: Sage mantel / EE jewel cloak / all five prismatic cloaks in EE.

She had a thanksgiving giveaway, and one of the hottest items were her two convalescent bracers of parrying.

I think one of the biggest problems in the random loot system is items bonuses to healing amp.
Could we consolidate and bring back thus dropping in the loot tables.
Perhaps like dodge ~ increase the item bonuses but make the item bonuses not stack.
This would free up space.
Also could we have the same nonstacking items bonus on a yellow augment.

Healing amp is a big concern for must toons.

Also remember, repair amp or negative energy amp on items could be a good thing too.

Happy Friday, everyone. I’d like to introduce myself as a bit of a new dev face on the forums. First, it’s about time I quit lurking, and second, I’m putting on an additional hat on the DDO team. What hat is that? In a word: loot. I’m here to listen to you and to keep my eyes on the big picture. Yes, that includes avoiding Ghostbane-situations.

So in the name of listening rather than blathering on and on, I’d like to ask you all a few questions as a sort of pulse-check on the state of loot. Go on and fill up the thread – I’ll check back in after the weekend (and a bit today, as schedule permits), with head-nods, follow-up questions, and answers where necessary.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?
- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?
- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

(In the future, I’m planning some similar question sessions about named loot and named loot systems, BTW.)

In Order:

1) The problem (to me) is the Accuracy and Deadly items. They're very powerful, especially Deadly. They lessen the importance of named loot, add to power creep, and will likely become a *necessary* item for melee characters to equip, do to the fact that Deadly items are widely available and stack with everything except for one or two named items and a barbarian enhancement.

2) Quarterstaves that break material-type damage reduction, and q-staves with the Densewood property. The former is important for enemies with DR, while the latter is important since q-staves break more easily than metal weapons.

Everything that's happened to loot recently should never have happened. DON'T DO THAT and I am certain that you'll be well loved.

Take a page out of Gensai's (RIP) book and actually listen. Don't let the loot YOU would love to use (OMG THAT'S SO RANDOMMMM XXXXXD ) cloud your judgement in such a way that it prevents you from seeing what the playerbase wants and uses.

When creating new loot prefixes and suffixes, don't completely remove the previous effects that people enjoyed. Convalescent, omniscience, meteoric, tempestuous jump immediately to mind as some of my absolute favorites. I'll never ever ever use a riposte or parrying weapon. Ever.

Stop with the roman numeral junk. In the long long ago, actual numbers were added (AND ROMAN NUMERALS REMOVED i.e. potency VI) to indicate at a glance how powerful an item was (see also disable +11 vs disable +15). This had the ultra happy side benefit of making stuff easily searchable on the AH. Now we have Flaming. How powerful? I don't know, let me hover over it and see. Actually I decided I don't even care how flamey this weapon is. I'll take something else that isn't just plain stupid.

1) I'd very much like to see Cannith crafting get new recipes. It's decent for leveling gear, but when you consider just how much you need to

2) I'd like to see the old scroll/seal/shard Epic items get some love. It takes a VERY long time to get those items and they're just mid-game "passing through" loot now. I do think that having a significant investment in getting end game items is fine, but for items that you're just going to wear for a few levels, I think it's reasonable to just have the item itself drop directly OR add a seal exchange and shard exchange just like the Scroll exchange that we have now.

3) I think that random loot is mostly fine. Most of it is vendor trash and there is an occasional shining example of a great item. I'd like to see raid loot surpass that lootgen gear in most circumstances. That's a particular concern for caster weapons since there is nothing exciting in CitW for Clerics/FvS that have spells as their primary focus and Twilight isn't very exciting for Wizards/Sorcerers/Artificers compared to a variety of the lootgen caster sticks that are available.

4) Interesting items are more appealing to me than items that just have raw power from better numbers. Madstone boots, Torc, etc. are all more interesting and more fun than just a +12 [blah] item even if that is better than a +10 [blah] item.

No one in the world ever gets what they want
And that is beautiful
Everybody dies frustrated and sad
And that is beautiful

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?
- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?
- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

1. My biggest problem is that I don't feel I'm adding anything to my character, these days, but seem to be constantly rearranging the same things into different slots.

2. Less desirable items like Kukris, battle axes, shortbows, morning stars and stuff like scalemail armor, there is just nothing random loot wise that makes theme even remotely comparable to other items when it comes to random loot. Even with named loot, the types of items I mentioned are little more than niche items for certain builds. This means that these items need something (other than a straight damage increase) to make them more desirable with the random loot permutations.

3. In terms of armor, none of my main characters use random loot stuff at the moment. Many however, do use weapons when I come across one that has the "right mix" of attributes, this varies based on what I'm running, level and some role play and aesthetic points with my character.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?

1) I would really like to see the non-straight DPS affixes back, as in CC/debuff effects. These are cool, and they add power that isn't just "I can now kill this boss mob .01 seconds faster because I went from VI to VII on my affix". It adds more variation, and more fun, without necessarily adding more "power" as such.

2) I would really like to see the armor/jewelry/clothing affixes that are missing back, too. Heal amp, for one.

3) I would like to have the affixes searchable. There's currently no way to distinguish Speed I from Speed X - and while one is very useful, the other is very useless. With everything being called the same, it's a ngihtmare to use AH - and I mostly don't bother anymore.

4) Power of random gen loot seem to be all over the place. I have deadly of accuracy goggles that have better combat bonuses than EE Dream Visors... and the random gen version is ML 17 (masterful + cursed, yes, but still). While some of the weapons are bland, boring and underpowered. I feel this needs to be looked at, leading to...

5) Power vs. named/raid loot. Some random gen loot is so powerful that it totally eclipses raid/named loot of the same, or even higher level. This is absurd.

6) Crafting. There are some grandfathered affixes that are really nice to be able to craft, but there are also a lot of back-log of affixes that are simply not craftable. Crafting has been neglected for a long time, which is sad for a system that has great potential - and demands such a large investment to get to high levels.

- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?

I don't as such have problems with any effects being available on both named and random loot, though keeping a few for named would make those items more flavorful and more interesting. Not a huge problem for me, though, and I'm not advocating making half the affixes named-only. There are a few exceptions to my laidback approach, though - see below.

One problem I have atm is that named items are in many cases grossly underpowered vs. random loot.

Another is the "nightmare" and "lifesteal" effects: Affixes that are great and reasonably balanced on the named loot they first appeared on get thrown into the random gen loot table, and suddenly they're overpowered - in many cases due to crit ranges that are better on some random weapons than on the named loot. Then the effect itself gets nerfed, and suddenly the named items are useless.
This is sad - it makes interesting and useful named items useless, simply because the affix for some reason HAD to go on random loot, too.

- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

I'm wearing deadly (sometimes of accuracy) on all physial DPS characters. This should tell you something about how OP especially deadly is. It's a must-have affix for any physical DPS - people that may or may not need the extra DPS, but for sure people that already have to slot a LOT of affixes to be useful. Doublestrike, heal amp, DC boosters to tactics, and so on. While I appreciate the extra DPS, I think a rebalance of DPS vs. casters should be more fundamental in nature, and not dependent on a must-slot item.
You went away from toughness feat being must-have, but now we have must-have skills and items instead. It's not consistent.

I also wear convalescent of superior parrying. This is an extremely useful combination, saves and heal amp together.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?

The biggest issue is the whole concept just sucks. Random just SUCKS. The game was better when my level 20s didn't have a single piece of radom kit on them. Random should remain vendor trash . . . let us kit our toons how how WE want them to be.

Cannith crafting was the best thing ever to happen in DDO regarding trash loot. Being able to craft WHAT YOU WANTED was a zillion time better than having to rely on dumb luck.

Random loot over-shadowing named loot, even if a few levels higher, is friggin ******** as well.

Seriously, as long as you're on this "random" kick your loot/game will all be a bucket of fail.

Take a page out of Gensai's (RIP) book and actually listen. Don't let the loot YOU would love to use (OMG THAT'S SO RANDOMMMM XXXXXD ) cloud your judgement in such a way that it prevents you from seeing what the playerbase wants and uses.

Also, this.

[older loot philosophies good. latest philosophies bad.]

I know that's not the most polite way to phrase it, but it's the best summary that I can offer that would actually be helpful in seeing how I and many other forumites view the loot issue.

Last edited by Tolero; 11-18-2013 at 11:14 AM.
Reason: singling out folks by name

No one in the world ever gets what they want
And that is beautiful
Everybody dies frustrated and sad
And that is beautiful

My biggest issue with random loot is after U19was released, random was so easy to aquire and alot better than named items that people had worked for, the CHA10/RES10 type things were just so common, Id like more rare prefix/suffixes

I dont think any type is undeserved, just be nice if the named items were worth using, alot of the U19 items were not worth the effort, then the Gsword and docent in U20 continued that trend, even if an item only fits certain build or types its better than not fitting anyone

I think alot of non named gear is being used, stat +10 items, deadly, resistance, weapons idk, for melee i wouldnt use a non named at epic and my caster druid only hit epic recently but im sure a non named spellpower weapon will be got at somepoint

The biggest issue is the whole concept just sucks. Random just SUCKS. The game was better when my level 20s didn't have a single piece of radom kit on them. Random should remain vendor trash . . . let us kit our toons how how WE want them to be.

Cannith crafting was the best thing ever to happen in DDO regarding trash loot. Being able to craft WHAT YOU WANTED was a zillion time better than having to rely on dumb luck.

Random loot over-shadowing named loot, even if a few levels higher, is friggin ******** as well.

Seriously, as long as you're on this "random" kick your loot/game will all be a bucket of fail.

My last post in this thread - I promise. Teh_Troll is wise.

Shroud good.
Cannith crafting good.
Alchemical weapons good.
Augment slots to round out your gear needs good.
Cannith challenge items good (although it SERIOUSLY needs some help for high level characters who can no longer make the base items)

Eveningstar challenge weapons bad

No one in the world ever gets what they want
And that is beautiful
Everybody dies frustrated and sad
And that is beautiful

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?

Treasure tablescaling. I want the highest item feature available on my regualr character's max. level (without a loot jewel and/or bonus days and/or store items).That includes highest stat tomes at lvl. 28 and further lvl. 30 but not 32 or higher. In short, erase planet constellations like bonus days + store items for maximum random loot hunt. When we could have +4 tomes in lvl. 27 chests we were running wildernesses for the thrill of ranom loot pre- and suffixes.

Named loot from raids was surpassed too quickly. New features for melees became a kind of must have (Deadly), others vanished (Convalescent). But my melees are running around like a christmas tree already. Fitting in Deadly is always a gain, while the trade-off is inacceptable.

I was close to sell my +4 Wintry Kopesh of The Icy Depths but right now that weapon has a status of unique item/raidloot. Return the coolness of the old random loot!

- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?

Don't understand *underserved* correctly. But if I do, I then wonder if anybody uses crossbows aside from repeating ones.

- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

Happy Friday, everyone. I’d like to introduce myself as a bit of a new dev face on the forums. First, it’s about time I quit lurking, and second, I’m putting on an additional hat on the DDO team. What hat is that? In a word: loot. I’m here to listen to you and to keep my eyes on the big picture. Yes, that includes avoiding Ghostbane-situations.

So in the name of listening rather than blathering on and on, I’d like to ask you all a few questions as a sort of pulse-check on the state of loot. Go on and fill up the thread – I’ll check back in after the weekend (and a bit today, as schedule permits), with head-nods, follow-up questions, and answers where necessary.

- Aside from the diversity issue, what are the biggest problems with random loot, today?
- What weapon and equipment types do you feel are underserved in named and in random loot?
- I’d love to hear about some of the non-named loot your character’s are currently wearing.

(In the future, I’m planning some similar question sessions about named loot and named loot systems, BTW.)

Random loot is too powerful and can make named items obsolete. I prefer random loot to be a placement item until I get that awesome named item. Otherwise, why even try for those items.

My characters wear deadly, seeker, and dodge items, when I can fit them in.

Making it better would be items that contain multiple high level DC bonuses along with slots.

Feather probably make the effect worse by making augments stack with items bonuses,
instead of doing the proper thing and improving the augments themselves.
Why did he put that into the future updates without more thought/discussion?

The more I think about it, the less stacking items and item augments we have the more space we will have.

The main exception is energy absorption which one can overstack to help non evasion toon survive situations.
Be carefuly altering that stacking, as it will affect the balance of capstones and many other things.

Shroud good.
Cannith crafting good.
Alchemical weapons good.
Augment slots to round out your gear needs good.
Cannith challenge items good (although it SERIOUSLY needs some help for high level characters who can no longer make the base items)

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