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Saturday, April 9, 2016

Paradigm shifts

I hesitate to write about this because it's both probably too personal and too random for anyone to relate to. But I hope there is a more meta thought about changing paradigms and what that actually means that can translate via the too specific story.

Recently, I was out with a sort of former seduction target turned long time friend, who has over the past few years retreated more and more from life. We met up randomly and by chance with a third, a stranger. The night with the third turned into hijinsky fun, the stuff of silly comedies with an undercurrent of sexual energy. The stranger skilfully flirted equally with me and my friend, keeping an amazing balance. Whenever my friend would withdraw, the stranger was there to draw my friend back in. It made me think -- this must be exactly how polyamorous relationships work. I've had multiple relationships going on at the same time, but never the same relationship with multiple people (sad!), so it was fascinating. It made a lot of sense too. Whenever there is a weak relationship between any two of the three, that weak pairing needs to be shored up with one on one connection between those two. And although I wasn't really that interested in either one by themselves, but there was something about the combination that was charming to me -- seeing them through each others' eyes.

The stranger ends up too drunk to drive home, but everyone has a car and everyone is far from home. It came down to a coin flip, but eventually it gets decided that my friend will drive the stranger home and crash there for the night, to come back in the morning to retrieve the third car. Of course they hook up, but I was surprised that they didn't come up for air for several days.

I'm genuinely happy for my friend, because I feel like it's an end of retreating from the world. And my world paradigm told me, "say you're happy for them both and then back away." But then I had this crazy thought just pop in my mind -- if I back away, this relationship will fail. Why? My mind reasoned, as if on its own, based on my observations of what I knew about them (I had tried to set the stranger up with other random strangers that night, so the stranger told me what to look for) there were at least a half a dozen ways in which my friend failed to meet the stranger's expectations. But I did meet those particular criteria. Same for what my friend is looking for -- so many things the stranger failed at, that I happened to meet. And there was also a half dozen ways that I failed to meet what each of them were looking for in ways that they matched for each other, most importantly that I was actually looking for a romantic relationship with either of them.

I had these thoughts in what felt like a moment of clarity for me, like seeing a math problem a different, better way. My mind told me that the optimal thing to do in terms of their relationship wouldn't be to adopt the societal paradigm of don't-be-a-third-wheel paradigm, but to continue to fill each's needs in the way that their new partner couldn't or didn't want to.

Again, you can imagine what happens here. I try to explain this to my friend, just to see if the idea rang true to my friend too. But it sounds too crazy, doesn't it? I mean, clearly I'm just jealous, anyone would think. Another friend told me in an IM conversation re the situation "i think you struggle a lot with things not being about you and it's something to work on." At first I wanted people to understand, wanted to explain how this was not about me this time or about jealousy.* And I did try to explain to my friend, until I realized -- this is my paradigm, and it is the truest I know, but it is not anyone else's. Neither one of them owe you any understanding of your paradigm and they certainly don't owe you adopting yours as their own, even if you believe that your paradigm would benefit them more in this situation.

Because as much as my concept of the self has been flexible, it has traditionally driven me literally crazy when people have denied a truth that seemed so self-evident. I've often fancied myself a sort of Galileo, preaching the truth of my righteous paradigm to the blind who will not see. A defender of truth. But after this recent experience, I understand that the truth is not necessarily always relative, but that in certain circumstances the truth hardly matters. Someone else's beliefs and/or their ability to have their own beliefs matter much more than any attempt at objective truth. And after I had that paradigm shift about third wheels and polyamory so suddenly, I wonder what paradigms of mine are next to shift? Finally, I see that I need to figure out a better way to allow my paradigms to shift in the future without upsetting others who aren't ready/wanting/asking to shift theirs.

*I've never been looking for love. I've never felt like that was true, at least. I've been attracted to people plenty, and I'm certain that I've wished in some way for them to reciprocate the intensity of my feelings, but even that has been oddly not a big deal to me. If it's not a straight seduction in which their passion for me are the "points" I'm scoring in some sort of game with myself, I've always been more into my own feelings for someone I care about than caring exactly how much they care back at me. Maybe this is why I have only experienced very pale shades of jealousy in my life, because what I want most are my own feelings of passion, not someone else's feelings for me.

My thoughts had always had such primacy for me; a bastion that no one else could touch no matter what else they did to me. And in the darkest of times in my marriage, there was a screeching of despair for anyone to hear me.

Since coming here, I've found my voice and as I crystallise my thoughts and have tried to convince others I have felt similarly to what you describe: the idea that I'm saying something useful and important and people just cannot hear me.

Things changed significantly, probably from that day where I exhorted you passionately over some topic I can't even remember now (probably morality) and then saw **-*.

I remember seeing a post on Facebook, something along the lines of "how to really beat a sociopath" and I was dancing around in my mind... No, no, no, that's not how to do it! Relationships aren't a game! If you still want to beat him, you're still fucked! Ultimately, I write a one-liner to the effect of it being better to reject the sociopathic conception of winning and losing in a relationship. Someone posted back that it was a win to walk away.

And I thought about. There was a time when I wanted to beat him. Perhaps that's part of the process. Perhaps it's helpful. Perhaps for those suffering the types of abuse I was suffering in my marriage it's even critical. I don't know and it's not my place to say! My story is different and that's ok.

So I let go.

And I know now that my value is the same as every other being on this planet; that each of us navigates as we are fit to do; that we are all bundles of neuro-patterns with our own lenses on the world and I don't need anyone to validate my patterns, my change or my perspective. If people hear my voice and find it useful, that's a super-added gift.

For me now, though, my curiosity has been satiated. The puzzle pieces fell into place, the dissonance resolved. I found a way to make sense of it all to the degree and with the depth my own mind demanded. It's happy. I can feel my subconscious expanding, releasing, breathing fresh air. I'm finding other things to excite me, other things capturing my interest, other alluring possibilities.

I like M.E.'s posts and the community here interests me so I will likely hang around. But the questions have been answered now. The water is clear. It's time to say thanks!

@Vegas: I like that. Yes. But we choose the blessings too, and not without some tradeoff #redpill

I'm deeply rooted in myself now, all my relationships have shifted. I feel self-sufficiency and those brief but often deep routine connections are enough for me, at least for now. Perhaps self-sufficiency for me is the genuine hermitage I'd always had a vision of. An LTR for example seems an overhead.

North I am happy to see you in such a positive place. Its strange I never thought I would ever even post anything online. I could have never imagined even reading a blog like this. Honestly it was very hard for me to stomach at first. I made myself read it. I tolda friend who was going thru a situation that was similar to mine to never read this blog- no matter what-that it would be too much for them. But I needed to look the monster in the eye. And I did. And I found more than I expected. I am thankful for your posts north. They have been a ray of light to me. I was immediately struck by your bravery to be raw. People sometimes run from that. They are terrified of appearing weak. You put everything out there. Everything I was questioning-feeling. Pure hell. It had to be explored. Thank you. You can't imagine how much you helped me personally.

I think it's a process, a longish process and sometimes things feel right that later feel wrong and vice versa. I've learned the easiest way is to simply live with myself in the moment, to trust the tug of my subconscious. In this way, the impossible transforms me; I embrace it fully. And when you do that, there is no longer strength or weakness, only self-connection, integration. That is peace, whether one is momentarily feeling joy or pain or anger or the vastness of one's own subconscious growing outwards to subsume the once-noisy mind.

Regarding monsters - I'm reading a bock about concerning our fascination with mythical monsters; how they represent our fears and provide an imaginative sandbox for safe exploration of those fears. The analogy isn't complete, but I think in a way we regard psychopaths as monsters: objects of our utter fascination and horror, prompts for our curiosity. It is, perhaps, a perfect mechanism - we are prompted to understand from a safe distance, prompted incessantly until we wrap our heads around it, until we can face the monster.

And then the mythical brightness and darkness dissipates and what stands before us is once again human sized; if not cut from slightly different cloth.

"At first I wanted people to understand, wanted to explain how this was not about me this time or about jealousy."

People will always project their own thinking onto others. Since they would have been jealous and made it all about themselves, they think it fit to advise you (by automatically assuming you're doing the same, regardless of what you say) to not make it about yourself. It can be frustrating when your intention is anything but what others automatically assume (and refuse to acknowledge they're wrong). This too is a result of psychopathic lying - now that there's so much of it out there, it's no surprise that almost no one believes you when you're being genuine. It's very easy to lie and be believed now but a proportionally tougher struggle depending on the content if you're being completely genuine.

With all due respect, I strongly disagree with the last point you made about love & jealousy - if by "love" you mean real love, not the relative and butchered meanings we now have. Real love is the antithesis of jealousy (certainly envy) and it IS about your feelings BUT it is wise enough to realize that true, real and lasting feelings for you only come when you are willing to give an equal or greater portion of your affection to your loved one. Yes it's real, not a fantasy.

Don't get me wrong when I say "real" love. I'm not saying all else is deception or fake - I just mean it's not what love really is.

Forgive me for assuming here but I think the reason why you care more about what you get in a relationship more than what you give is probably due to your not getting your fair share of it growing up. I'm sorry but if your parents could leave you and your siblings and just drive off (even if that's for a short while) that would have a lasting impact on you. It is a betrayal of trust and care.

I understand why you don't seem to think love is real. There's a deficit there and it's not your fault. I don't mean to preach but I would be lying if I said anyone or anything can fill that void other than God. He won't just fill the void, by the way, He'll give you more than you could imagine for everything you should've gotten but didn't.

Not trying to bombard but I should elaborate further on one point I made:

"Real love is the antithesis of jealousy (certainly envy) and it IS about your feelings BUT it is wise enough to realize that true, real and lasting feelings for you only come when you are willing to give an equal or greater portion of your affection to your loved one."

What I mean by "equal or greater portion of your affection" is not the quantity but the QUALITY of your affection. A "sociopath" with a rough upbringing cannot give an equal or greater quantity of affection (since they don't have it to give) as compared to a non-socio but even if they give a little bit, if it's genuine that'll mean more to their lover than everything they've given. It can literally be 9:1 and be true love but that 1 must be genuine.

In the new spirit of co-operation, in order to prevent you doing this:

"Not trying to bombard but I should elaborate further on one point I made"

if you write something, don't post it immediately. leave it for a few minutes, go back to it, then edit, or add some stuff; do that again, and then after the third pause, post that. Your writing will get more clarity, and you won't have to type for hours to correct what you were trying to convey.

Thank you for the advise. I've considered doing that too but don't usually bother because I don't "plan out" my messages - I speak my mind. Sometimes I just need to add or clarify because I'm reminded that it's sociopaths reading.

My 3 messages above took 24 mins altogether even tho I wasn't writing the whole time...so thanks again but be rest assured I don't spend anything remotely close to "hours" here.

"I hope there is a more meta-thought about changing paradigms and what that actually means that can translate.........this is my paradigm, and it is the truest I know, but it is not anyone else's. Neither one of them owe you any understanding of your paradigm and they certainly don't owe you adopting yours as their own, even if you believe that your paradigm would benefit them more in this situation........I see that I need to figure out a better way to allow my paradigms to shift in the future without upsetting others who aren't ready/wanting/asking to shift theirs."

While this may be quite valid in the personal sphere of the anecdote, it's not always appropriate for the public sphere.

Otherwise there'd still be slavery, no votes for women, no minimum wage etc. etc.

To make omelettes, one has to break eggs. Why bother making an omelette in the first place, if the chef can't take on board the responsibility of ensuring the omelette is not so masked by salad dressing by sous-chefs - that no-one *wanting an omelette* ever comes to the restaurant.

"Someone else's beliefs and/or their ability to have their own beliefs matter much more than any attempt at objective truth."

Uhuh. 'Much more'? Tell that to anyone with aneroxia. Or paranoia. Or schizophrenia.

I would personally enjoy a open relationship with multiple people in it together. Why not? If people get together for entertainment (for example a party), why not do so sexually as well? Especially orgies. With enough people around having sex around you while you're having sex with a few other people, it's like having live pornography all around you to watch while you quench your own sexual thirst.

I've talked with people about having an open relationship with multiple people involved (potentially long term relationship but if it isn't that is equally fine with me too) but I haven't had much luck in that. There seems to be a societal emphasis on monogamy and that just appears to be inefficient to me seeing as how it seems like 50% of monogamous relationships fail. I think that if society as a whole wants better emotional and romantic stability in the minds of normal people they would greatly benefit from having multiple sexual partners, perhaps a mix of both multiple sexual partners that are having sex with the same people you're having sex with on a regular basis ( I would imagine friendship of a sort would be established, for example two women with a tightly knit together bond who would share the company of a man they're mutually interested in but don't necessarily have attraction for each other) and multiple people you would also be having sex with and/or having sex alongside of. Imagine if these kind of relationships became the social norm, wouldn't "cheating" become more of a non-issue?

Thus far I've only had success with short term sexual encounters when it comes to having multiple people involved, threesomes and orgies. I remember one summer I went to a out of the way nudist beach, bodies laying naked on towels slick with glistening sun tan lotion. The sex was enjoyable, bodies thrusting and rubbing together and wet with sweat, passionate kissing, and occasionally ocean water. I've gone to bath houses/sex clubs before and had some satisfactory encounters with multiple sexual partners involved all at once too.

I suppose an ideal relationship for me right now is if I could have a relationship with both a man and a woman, or simply have a shared sexual partner with another individual or multiple people. Either will do.

Fine. I'm finishing off my antibiotics, I recently finished thr pneumonia specific ones and nearly done with a more general antibiotic the doctor prescribed.

My lungs feel recovered enough to smoke again, so I met up with my next door neighbor (the male friend with schizophrenia I mentioned before) and we smoked a few bowls of some Super Lemon Haze weed.

I don't want to wait around to recover though, boredom sets in quickly when I'm sitting idle for too long. Along with keeping up my wooden staff/sword fighting club involvement, I've decided to pick up midnight city parkour. I put on leggings for more flexible movement, a t-shirt and a light hooded jacket, running shoes and run off to downtown at night to do my parkour around the city and especially the open mall area closed off for construction. All those fences, construction equipment and boxes, etc.. make for a great excercise environment.

I am a large advocate of open relationships or polyamorous relationships. I think its really hard, and pretty unreasonable for one person to fulfill all the needs of another. When you have multiple players who are filling the roles, everyone is much happier and less stressed.

that being said I'm in a "monogamous" relationship. He isn't comfortable with the idea of open relationships, even though he knows I am. I accept his beliefs and wishes. But a part of me still sees us in an open relationship because we are still getting needs filled outside the marriage, they just aren't sex. I have a good friend who is by far fulfilling the "supportive husband" role because my husband has little interest in some of the things I share with my friend. My husband has friends that are fulfilling his emotional needs for companionship and fun. He also is slowly getting use to the idea of a 3rd person in both of our lives, and jokes frequently (enough where I'm not sure he is joking) about finding me a wife.

!!! it used to be connected to this blog but was disconnected over a year ago. We need fresh blood and lots of interesting things have happened recently (relates to kiwifar.ms drama: https://archive.is/M2tXa) that will go down in the forum's history! Be sure to check out http://www.psychforums.com/antisocial-personality/ too, as some of its regulars are regulars on SC too!

Goddamn ME refused to reconnect the blog to the forum so we SC goers will just have to spam advertisements for the forum in the comments section. ;)

"My mind told me that the optimal thing to do in terms of their relationship wouldn't be to adopt the societal paradigm of don't-be-a-third-wheel paradigm, but to continue to fill each's needs in the way that their new partner couldn't or didn't want to."

Did you think like that after some time had passed, or just then?

I've been like that for similar things but after a while I don't see it that way anymore.

As time passes circumstances change. What would've worked in the past won't work now. What you were once interested in doesn't do anything for you anymore. You see it as something in the past and not needing anymore thought about it.

So; you don't have a need for a sort of 'domestic buffer' between you and 'the world' to minimise your day to day contact with people and social contexts? Isn't that tiring?

I wish I could manage that. Attempting it in the past didn't end well.

It's often been difficult to find a 'companion' who can cope with someone with this personality style, or someone who doesn't expect the 'warmth and mutuality stuff' without eventually getting nasty and/or upset and claiming they've been 'shortchanged'.

"So; you don't have a need for a sort of 'domestic buffer' between you and 'the world' to minimise your day to day contact with people and social contexts? Isn't that tiring?"

Eventually the "domestic buffer" gets tiring too. Might as well deal with the world yourself. At least you'll meet new people.

"It's often been difficult to find a 'companion' who can cope with someone with this personality style, or someone who doesn't expect the 'warmth and mutuality stuff' without eventually getting nasty and/or upset and claiming they've been 'shortchanged'."

I think there's someone out there for everyone. The trick is to find them. And then put up with them.

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Of course, my default is still to intuitively analyze every outcome and situation and achieve the best result, but it's more interesting to let people remain a variable and go in their own direction, rather than nudging them in the direction I prefer. Interacting with people WITHOUT trying to control them is a new paradigm for me.