This one sentence sums up everything wrong with this game and it's community in a nutshell. When people get it in their heads that armor and bigger guns is a superior alternative to tactics and maneuvering and people people play by that creed what you're left with is 2 teams of uniform load outs battling over who can adhere to the game's meta more accurately.

The same thing would've happened in any previous MW title if heat was as punishing as it is in this game. Its even more punishing than tabletop battletech. TT:BT would have also been all assaults if not for the repair and supply costs of running those mechs, for the same reason you dont stick XL on every mech in TT either. Losses of those expensive stuff is much too costly.

By contrast, you imply heavier mechs can afford errors, which means more forgiving, which means they are tactically a better option. Even bruce lee wrote about going for the eyes and groin and other stuff in a real fight you'd never see in a movie or mock fight such as "MMA", because he recognized that purposely limiting your tools was strategically bad for any real conflict.

In much the same way, you may prefer the bravado that comes from running around in a medium mech, but that doesn't make it's shortcomings any less plain to see.

I don't have a screen shot, but i'm sure humpingbunny has seen my name around and my hunchback.

HumpingBunny, on 27 December 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I am glad I found this thread, especially since I almost always drive heavies and mediums. I only read the first post of this thread, but here is my take on mediums. Medium 'Mechs are the workhorses of the battle field. They are a well balanced platform of speed, armor and firepower and in the right hands, can be very devastating. Some of the best wolf packs consist of medium 'Mechs. Here is just one example of which:

A full lance of only medium 'Mechs with 10 kills and the highest damage of any lance in the match, yet barely weighing in at over 200 tons collectively. I witnessed a PUG say "Ton the f*ck up", so I had to post my two cents.

The Trial Mechs are not representative of Stock mechs. They are all double heat sinked (because PGI ruined heat dissipation mechanics, and being shutdown 24/7 would ruin newbie retention as SHS don't work), and they try to take advantage of a specific range setting. The Blackjack is probably the most cheesy trial mech available, and is not representative of medium mechs as a whole.

I agree. That Blackjack is so cheesy that it actually allowed me to get over 1k of damage for once. Centurion was better though, fast flanker that just went in and out, skirmishing and destroying plenty of stuff, but not cheesy.

By contrast, you imply heavier mechs can afford errors, which means more forgiving, which means they are tactically a better option. Even bruce lee wrote about going for the eyes and groin and other stuff in a real fight you'd never see in a movie or mock fight such as "MMA", because he recognized that purposely limiting your tools was strategically bad for any real conflict.

In much the same way, you may prefer the bravado that comes from running around in a medium mech, but that doesn't make it's shortcomings any less plain to see.

Seriously, no one is getting any awards or prizes in this game, no need for the "bring the best or go away" concepts.

That type of thinking will only exacerbate the AssaultWarriorOnline meme. I can be AS effective as ANY of my assaults and heavies but ONLY with extreme situational awareness.

Its an art that should be honored instead of frowned upon. Once tonnage limits are in the amazing Medium mech pilots will be a boon to ANY team.

Killing people in a medium is kinda like this "imagine what i would do to you if i had a real mech!" atleast by their standarts, still theres something about driving a medium that just makes you go on and on and on

So you suck with medium mechs, we get it. You still won't convince anyone that they are playing the game wrong.

Seriously, stop tryharding.

To the try-hard, doing anything anything less than using what they deem the very best not only makes no sense o them but is indicative of an inherent mental illness that separates the "winners" from the "losers". Fun is a function of Victories X (Efficiency - (Time + Effort)). The faster and cheeper the victory the better and that is all that matters. While I don't see the "fun" in ANY of that it's what gets their rocks off, so more power to them I guess.

The question is: "Should I feel bad and be guilted for playing the game the way I enjoy playing it?" And the answer is a resounding "No. Never!" becasue at the end of the day it's just a meaningless, fracking video game and if it stops being fun then you should step away and ask yourself if it's worth the time and grief it gives you.

If you need me, I'll be derping around in my LBX10 Victor on Skirmish mode with 11 other random dudes having fun (or maybe some Warframe since I just got a steam message from a friend because lol co-op)

I understand that you have SPS, but you must recognize that an inferior force must necessarily lose to a superior one, all other things equal. If you can kill newbs in your mediums, good for you.

Quote

10. Hence, though an obstinate fight may be made by a small force, in the end it must be captured by the larger force.

If you field all mediums and the other team fields all assaults, they have double the tonnage, so double the armor and weapons. That is a "larger force" even though its still 12v12. Force multiplication laws being in effect.

I find it pretty hilarious that you'll even try to argue that medium mechs are as effective against an all assault group that coordinates well. Again, I refer you to the fact that even in tabletop BT, Battle Value was a metric conceived to make fights fair, so that mediums could slug it out with assaults due to superior numbers through lower BV, and tonnage limit or other metrics are on their way in MW:O, to further equalize the game.

In the same breath you recognize that this is important for balancing the game, yet deny that it's because its out of balance (read: heavier mechs = king).

That is what I find truly hilarious.

Raso, on 28 December 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

To the try-hard, doing anything anything less than using what they deem the very best not only makes no sense o them but is indicative of an inherent mental illness that separates the "winners" from the "losers". Fun is a function of Victories X (Efficiency - (Time + Effort)). The faster and cheeper the victory the better and that is all that matters. While I don't see the "fun" in ANY of that it's what gets their rocks off, so more power to them I guess.

The question is: "Should I feel bad and be guilted for playing the game the way I enjoy playing it?" And the answer is a resounding "No. Never!" becasue at the end of the day it's just a meaningless, fracking video game and if it stops being fun then you should step away and ask yourself if it's worth the time and grief it gives you.

If you need me, I'll be derping around in my LBX10 Victor on Skirmish mode with 11 other random dudes having fun (or maybe some Warframe since I just got a steam message from a friend because lol co-op)

Faster and cheaper only matters with limited resources. For now, mechs and weapons are infinite resources. They are perfect at the start, and you can never be out of them no matter how badly you lost a previous match.

Faster and Cheaper is only a rule for limited resources. Hence why you're wrong.

There's no problem in "having fun YOUR way", but teamkilling is against the rules when some people have fun that way, and taking an all flamer mech that dies and does nothing WILL **** off your teammates.

I understand that you have SPS, but you must recognize that an inferior force must necessarily lose to a superior one, all other things equal. If you can kill newbs in your mediums, good for you.

If you field all mediums and the other team fields all assaults, they have double the tonnage, so double the armor and weapons. That is a "larger force" even though its still 12v12. Force multiplication laws being in effect.

I find it pretty hilarious that you'll even try to argue that medium mechs are as effective against an all assault group that coordinates well. Again, I refer you to the fact that even in tabletop BT, Battle Value was a metric conceived to make fights fair, so that mediums could slug it out with assaults due to superior numbers through lower BV, and tonnage limit or other metrics are on their way in MW:O, to further equalize the game.

In the same breath you recognize that this is important for balancing the game, yet deny that it's because its out of balance (read: heavier mechs = king).

That is what I find truly hilarious.

SPS? More ForumWarriors that resort to some belittleing/personal attacks to make their "point".

Nice work!

The truth is when I take my medium mechs out, I end up against quite skilled players. The your only good vs newbs concept is another fallacy, usually the "newbs" are on my side to even the playing field.

I've been "out tonned" MANY times, matchmaker loves to find the same class mechs to team me up with and those are the most satisfying wins.!

I still don't get your point nor understand your amusment that medium mechs can be deadly in the right hands.

Obviously its much easier to ROLFstomp in my DakkaMaster, that in no way justifies belittling players for bringing the mech they choose.

Medium mechs have superior strategic speed over Heavies. Unfortunately most of the maps are too small / restrictive, and there's a lack of objectives.

Lawrence of Arabia triumphed by outmaneuvering his foes, not by outfighting them toe-to-toe (he couldn't take them head-on).

If we had a real theater of operations, with actual bases, air fields, munitions depots, artillery batteries, supply convoys, etc., you'd see Mediums are able to take advantage of that.

Already you can see this dynamic in Conquest on larger maps. 12 enemy Assaults try to put 1 lance at each base to hold 3 bases? Swarm 1 with all 12 Mediums, they'll get there before the slow enemy Assaults can arrive to reinforce their buddies. The Assaults split into 2 groups of 6? They can only hold 2 bases at a time. If they attack one of the bases you're holding, scout, count, and run away and cap the base they vacated. The Assaults attack Theta? Leave Theta, and take Gamma.

Now imagine a game mode that replaces those stupid "oil rig" bases with actual bases. Sortie your Mediums out to harass and call in strikes on the enemy Assault mechs. Break off into 2 groups to attack the enemy Airfield and Artillery batteries simultaneously... only to find that both bases are being defended by 1 lance each of Assault mechs? No problem, have the group that was tasked with attacking the Airfield break off and join the attack on the Artillery battery, outnumbering the local defenders. Smash through, destroy your target, and then run away before the enemy Lance that was defending the Airfield can arrive.