is it enough to be pretty? in order to charge and claim to be professional and get work on these forums ( some even not hitting the pretty part ! so probably getting the tits out instead and still having no clue as to modelling)

i ask after a long break from shooting models and having had a look around the various forums as i'm about to return, and it appears nothing has changed in the right direction regards quality and so called "pro models" (read charging fee models)

Now im not having a pop at you all, but when i see some of the quality of your ports and the rates, i have to ask what idiots are actually paying these people. and usually 3 or 4 times what most people make for an hourly wage

if i am paying i would not expect to have to describe every pose to you and have to spend more time doing "your job" rather than mine.

I have worked with some great, inspirational models who worked with me to produce better images than i ever did compared to the last shoot and one who after looking at the shots in camera, even demanded that i did,saying she knew i could do better ! thats a true pro in my book. and then i have also worked with some paid "girls" who cant model to save themselves , where i booked them based in part on look and previous photographers feedback. ( lies i suspect in order not to upset them)

so there we have it, justify yourselves and your rates ? you know deep down who you are and your capabilities to actual model, for the rest who can do a job, i feel for you, that your chances of paid work are being diluted by the others who put no time into learning their craft and those who continue to pay them without question.

agree with me ? or flame me ? but lets get it in the open be honest about "our lot" as members of these forums/sites.

I agree with some your sentiment, but the wide range in looks, application and ability can also be a VERY positive thing in itself, and is, in fairness, reflected in the very mixed capabilities of the so called “professional” photographers.

I first photographed a topless model in 1977, at least two decades before most of the models registered on this site knew what their feminine assets were; still less how to shake them at a lens for best effect.I have photographed hundreds of girls since, from the clueless amateur to the pretentious “God’s gift to men” professional. I think the market is big enough to include ALL.And if some strapped for cash amateur girl wants to strip off at the weekend for some hobbyist snapper who doesn’t know his aperture from his lens cap. Then good luck to them!You pay your money and take your pick!

It's simple human choice (the market). If they get paid for their efforts by some then why not? If it's not worth it to you, don't book them.

For myself I nearly always pay and have worked with raw beginners to models who have appeared in the Sun and Playboy. As a photographer who likes to provide a substantial amount of direction and control over the poses I do not find that having to provide continuous direction a problem and rarely want a model to "free flow" into their gamut of positions and looks.

The idiots are the majority user base of sites such as these. The photographers who have skills levels in line with the terrible model ports they pay for. They are the silent majority, the income of the owners. I believe modelling and photography has levels (not that kind of level..) and it all evens out in the end. The great models work with the great photographers. The good, with the good, the Ok with the Ok and the rest? Well, with the rest.

Good photographers don't need great models, and good models can help average photographers produce good photos.

Your great model may just run through a range of standard glamour poses which are of no interest to me. I want a model who is at least interested in what I want from the shoot that I am paying for, and normally manage to find models who make a positive contribution to the results, not just by providing a beautiful face and body. I can't say that I have found any particular correlation between the experience/great portfolio that a model may have and her performance at a particular shoot.

Who does the styling in your shoots ? Who does the Make-up ?

Like any dealer he was watching for the card that is so high and wild he'll never need to deal another...

Preaching to the converted, but since most of us can spot a newbie chancing their luck, just as experienced models can spot a GWC with a fat wallet, there's no harm done really.People can charge what they like, no-one is obliged to pay them. Either they wise up and readjust their expectations, or they fade away into obscurity.

"When I hold a camera, I know no fear..." - Alfred Eisenstadt

06 September 2014 14:23

jessicardModelThis member has been reset to pendingLocationUnited KingdomVale of GlamorganCardiff

To be fair, the kind of models you're referring to don't tend to frequent the forums.

They probably model for a bit of extra cash - hence the higher rates as they don't really mind if they get one booking a week or 3 - and probably do higher levels. Plenty of horny guys with cameras willing to shoot anyone if they'll get their foof out and open for a reasonable price.

http://jayerose.tumblr.com/

06 September 2014 15:06

marlhamphotoPhotographerThis member has been reset to pendingLocationUnited KingdomKentCanterbury

Quote from jessicard
Plenty of horny guys with cameras willing to shoot anyone if they'll get their foof out and open for a reasonable price.

Yep. They're almost single-handedly responsible for keeping the whole internet model economy going. Where would we all be without them - certainly there would be far fewer models available

well it seems from my pm's today, that more think like me, but don't want the hassle of saying so on forum, good news "i'm not alone" in my thoughts about this and it seems both photographers and quality models are sick of the wannabes or the uninterested who happen to be caught in a "debt period" in their lives and see modelling (quote from jess "foof out and open")for flesh hunters, as a way to get some quick and easy cash (not declared of course)