Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Be great PR in the face of the last 20 years to fight whatever it is. Especially if you don't have the collective balls to penalize yourself or at least look like you're considering doing the right thing.

I hope they do sue the NCAA. That town will be basically radioactive for ten years if they do.

And I have nothing against those people there. I believe PSU is about the most unique college football town I've ever seen, but not so unique that this wouldn't happen somewhere other than PSU.

Be great PR in the face of the last 20 years to fight whatever it is. Especially if you don't have the collective balls to penalize yourself or at least look like you're considering doing the right thing.

I hope they do sue the NCAA. That town will be basically radioactive for ten years if they do.

And I have nothing against those people there. I believe PSU is about the most unique college football town I've ever seen, but not so unique that this wouldn't happen somewhere other than PSU.

It would happen anywhere that there are drunken young people with some time on their hands and no real responsibilities - which is basically every college ever.

Anyways, my take on this whole deal/thread is pretty simple - The arguments needs to be whether the NCAA gets involved at all.

Cause if they do, I think the death penalty is justified. The price that's leveled for 10 young peoples lives being altered forever. 10 RAPES. We know of.

I'm well aware that the level of SMU corruption went up to state government, and is quite a different issue all together, but again, if you're classifying punishment, this is the worse thing you've admonished EVER. By far.

Be great PR in the face of the last 20 years to fight whatever it is. Especially if you don't have the collective balls to penalize yourself or at least look like you're considering doing the right thing.

I hope they do sue the NCAA. That town will be basically radioactive for ten years if they do.

And I have nothing against those people there. I believe PSU is about the most unique college football town I've ever seen, but not so unique that this wouldn't happen somewhere other than PSU.

IMHO its a criminal case and s far as 'being radioactive for 10 yrs'....what differnce would it make if the recent talk about punishment play out?

Sounds like it will be more than 10 yrs worth of pain to me...[shrugs]

In the end ...I don't really give a shit

Its summer, I'm semi retired and just bought a used Corvette...I really couldn't care any less about Professional College Football and its archaic, Prima Donna, phoney, money grubbing leadership

...and I wonder how many pedos there are within the NCAA Postulation itself...?

Be great PR in the face of the last 20 years to fight whatever it is. Especially if you don't have the collective balls to penalize yourself or at least look like you're considering doing the right thing.

I hope they do sue the NCAA. That town will be basically radioactive for ten years if they do.

And I have nothing against those people there. I believe PSU is about the most unique college football town I've ever seen, but not so unique that this wouldn't happen somewhere other than PSU.

IMHO its a criminal case and s far as 'being radioactive for 10 yrs'....what differnce would it make if the recent talk about punishment play out?

Sounds like it will be more than 10 yrs worth of pain to me...[shrugs]

In the end ...I don't really give a shit

Its summer, I'm semi retired and just bought a used Corvette...I really couldn't care any less about Professional College Football and its archaic, Prima Donna, phoney, money grubbing leadership

...and I wonder how many pedos there are within the NCAA Postulation itself...?

It is clearly a criminal case, that doesn't mean that it is not an NCAA issue as well. That is the problem with the NCAA, you never really know where they are going to come down on people. tOSU got hammered pretty hard for players selling their own shit. Honestly, the UNC and Oregon scandals (which are much worse) will probably yield lesser punishments.

In the end, the most important thing the NCAA does is protect the cash machine that is collegiate sports. Viewed in that light (with the increasing public outcry), the PSU scandal is not only an NCAA issue, but it is an issue that requires the NCAA to make a statement or else the outcry could cost them $$.

I hate the fucking NCAA almost as much as Ticklemonsters.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Yeah, it's a loss of 10 schollies/year, but 20 scholarships overall, maxing out the count at 65. Without a bowl bid present, have to imagine that the quality of athlete recruited is going to be FCS/Div II level. Not going to be pretty. The Leaders Division is going to be a two-horse race for a while between us and Wisconsin, although Illinois may make inroads with PSU's decline.

From a competitive standpoint, it immediately makes the Legends Division of the B1G look stronger top to bottom. I think it was stronger before, with Michigan's comeback and Nebraska's entry, and solid if unspectacular teams at Iowa and NW. Leaders now has three legitimate bottom feeders, not counting Illinois.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

I like the fact that the vacating of wins drops Paterno out of the top 5 winning coaches of all time. For a family that prides itself on that legacy aspect that will also be a slap in the ass...errr...face.

I stand corrected when I said it would have to be the death penalty or nothing. On the face of it this should accomplish what you would hope to accomplish as much as death would have. But it saves the community from having and economic nuke dropped on them. People will keep jobs. Smaller sports will still be funded.

I have always seen vacating wins as sort of a empty gesture, sure a official media guide or two will need to be adjusted , but its not like you can erase all those wins from people's memories, or more importantly take back all the money the university, and community made off those wins.

I don't want to go off topic , but with Mark Emmert setting this new precedent, I have to wonder whats in store for Miami U. While what they did is on a different level 'wrong' compared to PSU, it can be argued that their transgression's had far more effect on the actual football field.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:I have always seen vacating wins as sort of a empty gesture, sure a official media guide or two will need to be adjusted , but its not like you can erase all those wins from people's memories, or more importantly take back all the money the university, and community made off those wins.

99% of the time I agree. But I like the fact it forever takes Paterno off the top of the coaching victories list in a formal manner.

I think that's about the best way you could crack the family across the head. It was very important to him and to them.

LakeErieWarriors wrote:All this talk about Penn State avoiding the death penalty? I mean, what's the difference? They're going to be 100% irrelevant for the next half decade, at the very least.

Umm... yeah. That's five years. That's a bit less than the period of irrelevancy for SMU and it also allows the rest of the sports to remain more viable than they would have had the football revenues been wiped out for 15 years.

Govbarney wrote:I have always seen vacating wins as sort of a empty gesture, sure a official media guide or two will need to be adjusted , but its not like you can erase all those wins from people's memories, or more importantly take back all the money the university, and community made off those wins.

99% of the time I agree. But I like the fact it forever takes Paterno off the top of the coaching victories list in a formal manner.

I think that's about the best way you could crack the family across the head. It was very important to him and to them.

I am conflicted here. Granted he is total spit on his grave scum for essentially allowing children to be raped. That being said , as far as we know he did not cheat to get those victories on the football field through either on field action, or recruiting. All of those victories where garnered in a legit way. So while I have no issue with removing his name from a record book, or adding a Wikipedia astrix, when my grandchildren ask me which coach won more games then any other in history, I still think I tell them it was Jo Pa. Just like I would tell them that Pete Rose is the hit king, and the Buckeyes went to the 1999 final four

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

Govbarney wrote:I am conflicted here. Granted he is total spit on his grave scum for essentially allowing children to be raped. That being said , as far as we know he did not cheat to get those victories on the football field through either on field action, or recruiting. All of those victories where garnered in a legit way. So while I have no issue with removing his name from a record book, or adding a Wikipedia astrix, when my grandchildren ask me which coach won more games then any other in history, I still think I tell them it was Jo Pa. Just like I would tell them that Pete Rose is the hit king, and the Buckeyes went to the 1999 final four

Had the AD and the President done the right thing and fired Paterno for covering up for Sandusky and the child abuse, Paterno would have never won those games from 1998-2011.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote: Had the AD and the President done the right thing and fired Paterno for covering up for Sandusky and the child abuse, Paterno would have never won those games from 1998-2011.

I could be wrong, but from what I read, Paterno did not hide anything from the AD, and President, all three had a equal part in the cover-up. But I see your point.

If Paterno would have done the right thing and gone to the cops the moment he heard about the allegations, I cant see why he would not retain his Job. That's the sad part, had Joe Pa done the right thing from jump street, I have no doubt he would be considered even a greater figure today then he was prior to this scandal breaking out.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

skatingtripods wrote: Had the AD and the President done the right thing and fired Paterno for covering up for Sandusky and the child abuse, Paterno would have never won those games from 1998-2011.

I could be wrong, but from what I read, Paterno did not hide anything from the AD, and President, all three had a equal part in the cover-up. But I see your point.

If Paterno would have done the right thing and gone to the cops the moment he heard about the allegations, I cant see why he would not retain his Job. That's the sad part, had Joe Pa done the right thing from jump street, I have no doubt he would be considered even a greater figure today then he was prior to this scandal breaking out.

If the news came out that there was a predator on the prowl in happy valley, the university takes a publicity acid bath and you lose some of the recruits.

One Q about this feeding frenzy of schools poaching PSU players. Aren't all the other schools maxed out on scholarships? So if they do pick up a player or two, does that send one or two players already commited to that team home? Redshirt them? Or do they "find other" non-athletic scholarships at that school?

Spin wrote:One Q about this feeding frenzy of schools poaching PSU players. Aren't all the other schools maxed out on scholarships? So if they do pick up a player or two, does that send one or two players already commited to that team home? Redshirt them? Or do they "find other" non-athletic scholarships at that school?

Per SkatingTripods post above:

Also, says that the NCAA is considering waiving the scholarship limit for teams that accept PSU transfers.

Spin wrote:So if they do pick up a player or two, does that send one or two players already commited to that team home? Redshirt them? Or do they "find other" non-athletic scholarships at that school?

Regardless of the possible temporary waiver of scholarship limits, schools are not allowed to do this...say, give a guy a baseball...or academic scholarship instead. If he's on the football roster, he counts as one of their football scholarships. Period.

If he agrees to pay his own way, that's different. He's a walk on.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

skatingtripods wrote: Had the AD and the President done the right thing and fired Paterno for covering up for Sandusky and the child abuse, Paterno would have never won those games from 1998-2011.

I could be wrong, but from what I read, Paterno did not hide anything from the AD, and President, all three had a equal part in the cover-up. But I see your point.

If Paterno would have done the right thing and gone to the cops the moment he heard about the allegations, I cant see why he would not retain his Job. That's the sad part, had Joe Pa done the right thing from jump street, I have no doubt he would be considered even a greater figure today then he was prior to this scandal breaking out.

He may not have "hidden" anything from those above.

Great.

And this is was Paterno supporters like to trumpet.

But it's one thing to "do whatcha gotta do" or hope it kinda goes away - and quite another to allow the guy TO RUN CHILDREN'S PROGRAMS ON YOUR CAMPUS and see him in their company about every GD day.

"The guy just made a mistake" crowd....it was waaay more than that, over years worth of time. Generally speaking, doing wrong - and this was about as wrong as you could get - over years worth of time, at some point ceases to be a "mistake"

IIRC last season they had only 11 Srs on the team with only 4 starting. No matter what a homo...errrr,,,,homer like furls thinks, they're going to be dangerous this yr

I'll also go out on a limb and say not too many will transfer, if any at all

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, I see what you did there. You played on the fact that Homo sounds like Homer, man great stuff. Did you come up with that on your own?

You think this PSU team will be dangerous next year and you are calling me a homer? Oh that's right, you are the same guy that was saying that I needed to get out and see the world.

Well, as an exercise in amusement (for me) let's take a look at this "dangerous" PSU team for next year:

They are returning the two headed QB monster of Bolden and Moxie, that should be a real treat. Lots to fear there.

They are replacing all 3 WR from last year.

PSU will have a new starting TE to compliment those new WRs and it should work out great with their 3 new starting OL. I will give you that Silas Redd is a good player and he is less likely to transfer because he is a Jr.

So the danger must be on the defensive side of the ball where PSU is replacing their 2 best DL and 3 members of the secondary. Jeez, that doesn't sound good either. Well hopefully Mauti's ACL healed up well.

I am sure that Indiana will be quaking in their boots next year.

You are right though, I don't think there will be that many transfers for next year's starters (mostly juniors and seniors) but any promising sophomores and freshman are gonna split. The big issue for PSU kids that want to transfer is that camp starts in 2 weeks and I am not sure how coaches and players are going to make that work in time. That more than anything else will keep the jrs and seniors at PSU.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Holy shit. I bet those bastards that didn't want a "death penalty" are re-thinking that now. These penalties are "HOLY FUCKING SHIT BAD" and will keep PSU in the dark ages for a decade. When the scholarship reductions end in 2016 PSU will be down to 60ish scholarship players and they will be unable to actually get back up to 85 until 2018 or so. Not only that, but most of the upper classmen are going to be guys that frankly would have had no business in a PSU uniform a decade earlier. Honestly, I don't know if PSU will recover. 6-7 years is a long time to be irrelevant.

This is so much worse than the USC sanctions. The reductions in #s are the same, but the duration, an entire recruiting lifetime, is devastating. Lane Kiffin was able to sell USC to recruits because they would only be foregoing one bowl game as freshman (for his first class) and that is an easy sell. It hurt his 2010 class, but you can miss one class; you cannot miss 3.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

OK, so far so good. Sandusky in jail, everyone else who knew (according to the report) is dead or headed to jail. The program (and those fans who saw nothing wrong with what Joe and the rest did) have been punished.

Nice start.

Next step, what happened to the prosecutor, state investigator, and PSU detective who were involved with the case in 1998?

furls wrote:I forgot the real reason I came here to talk about the sanctions.

Holy shit. I bet those bastards that didn't want a "death penalty" are re-thinking that now. These penalties are "HOLY FUCKING SHIT BAD" and will keep PSU in the dark ages for a decade. When the scholarship reductions end in 2016 PSU will be down to 60ish scholarship players and they will be unable to actually get back up to 85 until 2018 or so. Not only that, but most of the upper classmen are going to be guys that frankly would have had no business in a PSU uniform a decade earlier. Honestly, I don't know if PSU will recover. 6-7 years is a long time to be irrelevant.

This is so much worse than the USC sanctions. The reductions in #s are the same, but the duration, an entire recruiting lifetime, is devastating. Lane Kiffin was able to sell USC to recruits because they would only be foregoing one bowl game as freshman (for his first class) and that is an easy sell. It hurt his 2010 class, but you can miss one class; you cannot miss 3.

Spin wrote:OK, so far so good. Sandusky in jail, everyone else who knew (according to the report) is dead or headed to jail. The program (and those fans who saw nothing wrong with what Joe and the rest did) have been punished.

Nice start.

Next step, what happened to the prosecutor, state investigator, and PSU detective who were involved with the case in 1998?

Didn't the Prosecutor vanish in 2005? And rumors of foul play have long been suspected. Could have swore that was the case from months ago.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

furls wrote:I forgot the real reason I came here to talk about the sanctions.

This is so much worse than the USC sanctions. The reductions in #s are the same, but the duration, an entire recruiting lifetime, is devastating. Lane Kiffin was able to sell USC to recruits because they would only be foregoing one bowl game as freshman (for his first class) and that is an easy sell. It hurt his 2010 class, but you can miss one class; you cannot miss 3.

Didn't USC appeal which delayed the final decision for two years allowing them to figure out ways to cut some dead weight in the interim time? Such that the reduction was not quite as harmful as it could have been whereas PSU won't get that luxury. This means every single recruit you have to hit on. Not a lot of room for mistakes.

Plus you have to think depth is going to be an issue in the midst of a B1G season. If they have a few interior guys go down what's coming in, walk-ons?

Spin wrote:OK, so far so good. Sandusky in jail, everyone else who knew (according to the report) is dead or headed to jail. The program (and those fans who saw nothing wrong with what Joe and the rest did) have been punished.

Nice start.

Next step, what happened to the prosecutor, state investigator, and PSU detective who were involved with the case in 1998?

Didn't the Prosecutor vanish in 2005? And rumors of foul play have long been suspected. Could have swore that was the case from months ago.

I think so. He's either buried somewhere in the mountains, or relaxing on his own island in the Caribbean he bought with his "retirement fund".

furls wrote:I forgot the real reason I came here to talk about the sanctions.

Holy shit. I bet those bastards that didn't want a "death penalty" are re-thinking that now. These penalties are "HOLY FUCKING SHIT BAD" and will keep PSU in the dark ages for a decade. When the scholarship reductions end in 2016 PSU will be down to 60ish scholarship players and they will be unable to actually get back up to 85 until 2018 or so. Not only that, but most of the upper classmen are going to be guys that frankly would have had no business in a PSU uniform a decade earlier. Honestly, I don't know if PSU will recover. 6-7 years is a long time to be irrelevant.

This is so much worse than the USC sanctions. The reductions in #s are the same, but the duration, an entire recruiting lifetime, is devastating. Lane Kiffin was able to sell USC to recruits because they would only be foregoing one bowl game as freshman (for his first class) and that is an easy sell. It hurt his 2010 class, but you can miss one class; you cannot miss 3.

You're as bad as any 'bad' PSU fan with your 2000 word blutherings

All you can talk about is how it affects football

Maybe I should include some pictures? What else is there to talk about? I suppose I could write yet another post about how nothing the NCAA did would negate the damage that was done to those kids. Or I could cry in my beer about the small business owners around Happy Valley that make their living off the corrupt football industry that allowed children to be victimized for the better part of a decade when they were finally taken to task.

Or I could write something really witty like this:

I hope the syetem breaks down for a day and he's put in a cell with some whacko like that Boston priest was, then beaten to death by a guy doing life...

Same with that Pedo Priest found guilty in Philly...... the same day?

or this

Jerry Sandusky needs to be tortured...

I guess I should just quote Chesty Puller and make a bunch of childish statements. Then I could be a message board bad ass like FMB.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

That depends on how much PSU's fans really love their team. As long as they are still packing the stadium there will be no effect; the question is will they still fill the 110K stadium when PSU is fielding a MAC level team in a couple of years with a couple of years of sanctions still remaining.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

There is going to be an impact, no doubt, but it will be nowhere near what killing the program would have done (even for just a year). They will still have D-1 football, still have local kids playing there and still have Title-IX met for the woman's sports.

This isn't even close to what the death penalty is in terms of impact. Christ, look at SMU and what it took for them to even exist again.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

It's sort of what I was trying to get to in my column yesterday...that "an empty stadium would have done more than sanctions"...

I hope no one took me to say that the sanctions that were imposed weren't severe enough...or that they weren't "fair". They will cripple the program for a decade at least.

I just think it will be an awkward, embarrassing and surreal scene at Beaver Stadium on 9/1, made all the more so by the discussion of it all between now and then.

I've had people say to me that the fans won't turn out...especially after a year or two when the quality of play really starts to decline. I think they're crazy. I'd bet the sellouts will continue no matter what. That's kind of the point.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

What seems to be lacking out there is strong agreement on what took place. You have some griping that it was too harsh, others saying they should have killed the program. (fessing up I am not paying attention to folks from Happy Valley).

Bouncing around the water cooler and talk radio there just doesn't seem to be anyone happy with this move. Too Harsh, not harsh enough, but I don't get a lot of "yea that's just about what I figured it would be, and the NCAA made a good decision".