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In regards to the comment from Mochizuki. I wonder if he ever asked him what he meant and if not, why?? If he resented it so much, you'd think at some point he'd say "ok, show me real aikido then".

LOL. I think that sort of happened to some aikido teachers, although with others. Reading the article about Shibata Ichiro and Shirata, you can't help but realize that Shibata Ichiro encountered real aikido from someone other than Morihei Ueshiba.

Funny, though, that when people tested Shirata, Shioda, Tomiki, Mochizuki, these people encountered something different. Different enough to make them stand out. Maybe not to the degree of Morihei Ueshiba, but definitely more so than they'd found in peers in aikido or judo.

I was assuming that he'd maybe felt Mochizuki at some point. If so, you'd think that if he couldn't do what either of them (Mochizuki or Ueshiba) were doing and was being told he wasn't doing real aikido that he'd at least have to know. Especially for one who seems so hardcore about the training. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

Chris it is interesting there is no mention of Tohei sensei by Tamura Sensei as this comment by Stan Pranin on his visit to hombu and his interaction with Tohei has always mystified me!

"As a result, I was called to a room on the second floor of the dojo late in August. Present were Tohei Sensei, Mr. Tamura and myself. I was told clearly that I was considered to be a student of Tohei student and as such was mistaken to have trained with other teachers during my stay in Japan."

This would suggest that Tamura Sensei was aligned with Tohei Sensei but certainly didn't aspire when Tohei Sensei left the Aikikai. But it does suggest the two were close around that time and given that Tamura Sensei arrived in Hawaiii with both O' sensei and Tohei Sensei that he would have worked closely with Tohei Sensei as well!

Also I believe that Yamada Sensei held Tamura Sensei in such high regard ( given the role of Yamada Sensei in Tohei's split ). The statement above doesn't make sense or have I misunderstood something?

I was assuming that he'd maybe felt Mochizuki at some point. If so, you'd think that if he couldn't do what either of them (Mochizuki or Ueshiba) were doing and was being told he wasn't doing real aikido that he'd at least have to know. Especially for one who seems so hardcore about the training. Maybe it's a cultural thing?

and I think we know what the difference is now.

Context, context, context is the rule for the Japanese.

Quoting his answer:
I was told "What you guys are doing now isn't real Aikido". That's really a terrible thing for someone who is such a senior to you to say and I really resented it, but I was told, "This is Aikido" by O-Sensei and I have protected that as I continued in my training. I was told "After the war O-Sensei just changed the techniques however he pleased", so I thought "After all, people from before the war are different".

You have to wonder what the context was for Mochizuki's statement. What the context was for Ueshiba's statement. Just what did Ueshiba mean by "This"? And, more importantly, when each was done.

Chris it is interesting there is no mention of Tohei sensei by Tamura Sensei as this comment by Stan Pranin on his visit to hombu and his interaction with Tohei has always mystified me!

"As a result, I was called to a room on the second floor of the dojo late in August. Present were Tohei Sensei, Mr. Tamura and myself. I was told clearly that I was considered to be a student of Tohei student and as such was mistaken to have trained with other teachers during my stay in Japan."

This would suggest that Tamura Sensei was aligned with Tohei Sensei but certainly didn't aspire when Tohei Sensei left the Aikikai. But it does suggest the two were close around that time and given that Tamura Sensei arrived in Hawaiii with both O' sensei and Tohei Sensei that he would have worked closely with Tohei Sensei as well!

Also I believe that Yamada Sensei held Tamura Sensei in such high regard ( given the role of Yamada Sensei in Tohei's split ). The statement above doesn't make sense or have I misunderstood something?

At the time, Tohei would have been the boss, Tamura his junior, so it's not unusual that he'd be accompanying Tohei in a Japanese company structure. I don't know whether or not Tamura was aligned with Tohei or not - but it may be that Tohei thought or assumed that he would be, similar things happened in other cases that I'm aware of.

Quoting his answer:
I was told "What you guys are doing now isn't real Aikido". That's really a terrible thing for someone who is such a senior to you to say and I really resented it, but I was told, "This is Aikido" by O-Sensei and I have protected that as I continued in my training. I was told "After the war O-Sensei just changed the techniques however he pleased", so I thought "After all, people from before the war are different".

You have to wonder what the context was for Mochizuki's statement. What the context was for Ueshiba's statement. Just what did Ueshiba mean by "This"? And, more importantly, when each was done.

Mark

My sense of both statements (and it's just my interpretation) is that they are meant by Tamura to be general commentary rather than comments on specific instances. This is especially true for the statement by Ueshiba - my sense is that Tamura is saying that what Ueshiba showed him in the times he trained with over the years ("this") is what he was trying to preserve.