Reader poll

How often would you eat at Olive Garden if they opened one in Lawrence?

The home of the never-ending pasta bowl soon may provide the next chapter in what seemingly has become Lawrence’s never-ending debate:

How much should City Hall do to lure businesses to town?

Development and City Hall leaders confirmed Wednesday that officials with the Olive Garden Italian Restaurant are considering a South Iowa Street site for a restaurant but said a property tax break will be needed to get the deal done.

The national chain is in discussions with Mission-based MD Management about a site at the northeast corner of 27th and Iowa streets, a vacant corner that once housed a Mazzio’s pizza shop and a Chinese restaurant.

“They are very interested in the site,” said Matt Gough, a Lawrence attorney who is representing MD Management.

But Gough said the project won’t get done unless city, county and school district officials agree to allow some of the property taxes generated by the development to be used to help pay for improvements at the site.

“It is absolutely essential,” Gough said of the provision.

Neighborhood Revitalization Act

MD Management officials are expected to request that the city use the Neighborhood Revitalization Act to spur the development. City commissioners recently agreed to use the Neighborhood Revitalization Act to entice Lawrence-based Treanor Architects to move its headquarters downtown.

The act functions like a tax abatement, but not quite. Unlike a tax abatement, the development would pay 100 percent of its property taxes each year. But it then would receive a rebate on a portion of those property taxes. The act, however, stipulates that not all of the property taxes can be rebated back to the development. Specifically, local governments must receive at least as much in property taxes from the site as they did before the project occurred.

Divisive issue

Details about how large of a rebate or for how many years the development group would seek a rebate haven’t been set. But the issue already was creating divisions.

Doug Holiday — an owner of Biggs BBQ and the president of an organization that markets locally owned restaurants — said the more than 20 restaurants in the Lawrence Originals group are against the idea of a tax break for the development.

“If they want to do it, let them do it on their own dime, not on the backs of taxpayers,” Holiday said. “If you start giving tax incentives to chain restaurants, there won’t be any local restaurants. Lawrence would become like Olathe, where it is hard to find a locally owned restaurant.”

City commissioners also are likely to be divided on the issue. City Commissioner Mike Dever said he is open to hearing more about the proposal. He said the request for a tax break has come about likely because the development group overpaid for the piece of property. Now it needs the tax break in order to offer the property at a lease rate that is in line with the market. Dever said he can understand why the public may be hesitant to grant such a request, but he also said the city has to be concerned about whether Olive Garden would seek to build in another location that would be less desirable from a planning standpoint.

“Do we want to force them to the outskirts of the city where land costs may be less right now?” Dever asked. “Or do we want to try to encourage infill development and the revitalization of what should be an important intersection in our community?”

If approved, the restaurant is expected to employ about 75 full- and part-time workers and generate about $5 million in annual sales. Based on current tax rates, the city and county would collect about $125,000 in sales taxes off of those sales, although existing restaurant owners argue the sales would come at the expense of their businesses.

City Commissioner Bob Schumm said he’ll be hard pressed to support a tax break for the project. Schumm — who is a downtown restaurant owner and also is a member of the Lawrence Originals group — said the Iowa Street corridor has been developing fine without tax subsidies. He pointed to the recently completed project to convert the former Food-4-Less grocery into a furniture store and the new Freddy’s Frozen Custard at 23rd and Iowa.

“Logic tells you that site is very likely to get developed all by itself,” Schumm said. “I just don’t see a need to subsidize a national restaurant chain in Lawrence, Kansas. The market certainly is not underserved.”

Broader discussion

The City Commission also likely will be operating short-handed on the issue. City Commissioner Mike Amyx said he plans to recuse himself from the discussion. One of the four lots that is part of the development proposal was owned by his parents before they sold it to MD Management. But Amyx said he does want the commission to have a broader discussion on what the city’s role should be in trying to spur retail development.

“Let’s just call it like it is,” Amyx said. “This is the first time we are starting to look at incentives for retail. In the past we have looked at tax abatements and such for industrial development and big job producers. But this issue of incentives for retail creates a new set of questions.”

i agree that would be a good fix for that corner of 27 and iowa and just the right size too because now that the plum tree and panda garden have merged togethre they can knock down the old plum tree building and us it for parking spots. i think that if olive garden is gonna go any where in this town thats the best sight for them but the only problem is pizano's is right acrossed the street.

Actually, I think that the addition of 75 new jobs would help keep money in the city. Those workers won't have to drive to topeka or KC to find work and therefore wouldn't be spending money in those places for lunch and gas.

“Do we want to force them to the outskirts of the city where land costs may be less right now?” Dever asked. “Or do we want to try to encourage infill development and the revitalization of what should be an important intersection in our community?”

You're a commissioner, Dever. If you don't want development at the outskirts of the city, it's your job to say "no." It's not your job to give tax breaks to a bland restaurant that will give them a competitive advantage over all the other similarly bland restaurants.

It's 2011, not 2007. Any job is needed in this town. I don't like giving tax breaks to chains, but do we want that spot to be empty for years more? And I am sure hundreds of Lawrence residents drive to Topeka/KC just to eat at O.G. during the year, do we want to keep them in town?

That spot was just as empty in 2000, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't responsible for the economic collapse.

Do you really think we're losing that much business to people driving out of town to eat at a single mediocre chain? Enough to support them staying in town, getting a sneaky tax to build their facilities and unfairly compete against established businesses, one of which is a direct competitor and practically across the street from the proposed location?

What's tough about it? it's a middling corporate clone, and every meal they sell will almost certainly mean a meal not sold at some other restaurant in town, and some other waitress not getting tips they otherwise would have gotten.

I'm all for choice and competition, but that's not what they are offering. They want a leg up before they even get here.

You're welcome to Lawrence, OG, but come here on the same basis as every other restaurant in town. If you're really as good as you think you are, you'll get a nice return on your investment, without the taxpayers having to be involuntary partners.

You state "and every meal they sell will almost certainly mean a meal not sold at some other restaurant in town". I have to disagree. When I want food like OG, I travel out of Lawrence to Topeka or OP, and its most of the time. When I want something different (which I've been pretty discouraged considering that a lot of the places here really aren't that good) I seek something here out.

It doesn't seem difficult to me. They anticipate revenue of 5 million/year. If they want that 5 million, they can pay their own development costs and full taxes on the improved property. Why should taxpayers subsidize low-paying jobs and corporate profits?

I agree, with the anticipated revenue they should have the building costs paid off rather quickly. Why isn't the owner of this lot building it and then just charging the appropriate rent to have it paid off and ready to make money?

Yeah, could care less. Better Italian restaurants already in this town. Just a "nice" place for the usual suspects to go have a meal. I'm with the guy that says "Hooters." At least the scenery might be good.

Grant this one and there won't be a single new thing in this town; greenfield, infill, or rehab; that won't put their little extorting mitts out for the exact same deal. And, under the logic of the deal (jerbs!), they'll deserve it. And in 20 years, Olive Garden will want to move and demand the same deal at a new location.

This is what we've come to. Any town that doesn't give away the farm time and time and time again for big corporations is labeled 'business-unfriendly'. Personally, I'd rather be called 'unfriendly' than be another on-our-knees corporate-begging town like ten thousand others.

Um, I'm looking to move to Lawrence and buying an old house that needs fixing up.How about if I buy it and have it fixed it up, and the property tax stays the same for 20 yrs. In exchange I will provide jobs for a lot of people to work on it and keep it clean. I will spend money in Lawrence thus increasing your sales tax numbers not to mention the money that the people I hire will spend here. It will certainly revitalize the neighborhood. If I cannot get this deal I will not buy a house in your town.

The uneducated have been disproportionately effected by the economic downturn. As we talk about economic development, lets keep in mind that many of the unemployed have little or no job skills. Wait staff, cooks, dish washers and hostesses need jobs too.

Instead of providing a targeted tax break to a single business, how about an incremental property tax holiday for all businesses in the community?

1/2 of the incremental property tax increase generated by any improvements done in 2011-2012 to a Lawrence business would be paid back to the business owner for 10 years.

This way all businesses in Lawrence have an incentive to invest in improvements this year. The City gets 1/2 of the new tax revenue generated by the improvements and the developer gets 1/2. The break would apply to ALL businesses.

Something like that might get the business community building this year, increase revenues for the City and save businesses on the property tax portion of their expansion.

Find 75 low education workers. Pay them to walk old ladies across the street, plant flowers by the roadside, and paint murals around town with uplifting messages. Take the remaining $4.5 million that was to be given away as a tax break and keep it as city revenue (so you and I don't have to make it up). 75 jobs are created for the high school drop outs and City gets to keep almost all its tax revenue.

There. Win/win/win for everyone.

Sorry, this proposal doesn't (a) remedy a blighted area, as a vacant lot isn't a blight nor (b) provide 'value added' jobs that will have significant secondary or tertiary economic effects. Indeed, it appears to--at best--recycle existing money within the local economy.

OG can build if it makes economic sense to them. Or not build if it doesn't. Not a concern for the City.

They are not asking for just tax breaks from the city, but also the school district, and to that I say definitely no. Olive Garden wants their new restaurant at the expense of kids education. How can we close schools then turn around and tell businesses they don't have to pay taxes rightfully owed to the school district. I will be seriously disappointed in our newly elected school board members if they ok this deal. Mt Oread Hotel should never have been given a pass on school taxes, let's not repeat this mistake. Does Olive Garden really want to come off as anti-children? Maybe it is a conspiracy to keep kids uneducated so they can hire them cheap when they can't get better jobs. They should hope this doesn't hit nation news websites. I can see it now "Olive Garden hates kids"

Sure atrracting new business is good for the city, but not at the expense of other established businesses. The restaurant business is tough as evidenced by the number of retaurants that fail to make it. The competition of the Olive Garden might spell disaster for one of the current restaurants.

Now, this is not the city's concern nor mine - competition is part of doing business, but the city should not give a new business an unfair advantage over an established one. Let Olive Garden go head to head with other restaurants without a tax break.

TWO blocks from Paisano's???? I've been hoping for an Olive Garden in Lawrence for a LONG time.. but not so close to Paisano's. (Even though Paisano's is closer to italian-italian... and OG is pseudo-italian) Put it in a different part of town.

...and for the love of god.. if they're going to be in this town, they need to pay taxes. We need the revenue.. we don't "Need" another restaurant. Especially one that's not bringing something unique to town. It'd be nice, but there are plenty of other options in Lawrence.

Hello, my name is Steve Butland, my wife Debra and I own and operate Paisano's Ristorante at 25th & Iowa in Lawrence. First, I apologize to any individuals who have commented about a poor experience at our restaurant, and hope you give us the opportunity to redeem ourselves.
Paisano's has been in Lawrence since 1994, we have been loyal to Lawrence, but more importantly, Lawrence has been loyal to us. Our interest in this development, in the spirit of transparency, is obvious. If Olive Garden is to build in Lawrence so be it...thats what free enterprise is all about....but lets not bail out a develper, who bought property right before the real estate bubble burst, and now wants to recoup those expenses, on the back of many small business owners. Don't put us in the ring with Goliath, tie one arm behind our back, and expect a fair fight...let Olive Garden build in Lawrence without tax abatements, I think they can afford it.

Thanks for your comments..we have added some new menu items, taken some off, redecorated our lounge into a dining area, added an additional banquet room, hired lots of new staff...and I think we are doing a better job than we were a few months ago, but my opinion doesn't matter...yours does....and we have kept our menu prices the same..haven't raised our lunch or dinner menu prices since September 2009.....but we have lowered some. Thanks again for your response

Steve: I like your restaurant, and went there recently. Quality and service were improved over a couple of years ago. Prices do seem a little high though.

Have you considered other sites in Lawrence? I think your people have complained that your kitchen is too small at the current location; you also don't have frontage on a major street so aren't very visible. Now would be the time to ask for some help from the city in relocation costs, as part of the Olive Garden deal.

Hello,
Thank you for your comments, and past patronage. You points are valid, but reloacting probably is not an option, since we are tied into a long term lease at this point....just as an FYI..we haven't raised menu prices since September 2009...but we have lowered some.

I'm a fan of OG coming to town. ((If they can do it fairly)). It's my over-garlic'ed, saturated-fat packed American cuisine guilty vice. Paisano's and OG are two completely different genres of food, IMO. Most people recognize that, I hope. If I want Italian and a solid beverage from the bar (or two..), it's Paisano's. If I want to enjoy a little too much butter and consequentially chugging a bottle of Pepto all night, it's OG. I sincerely hope you fight OG (and the developer's) "special treatment" with all you've got. I hope the community will stand by you. And I hope if they do come to town, they'll find a location more suitable than two blocks away from you.

We are in a budget crisis. We have to put a moratorium on these never-ending requests for corporate welfare. Even with this particular variation on incentives, now is not a good time to be giving away our tax dollars to a corporate chain which siphons money out of the local economy. If we are going to do private sector welfare, let's offer it a locally owned business and then only if it makes sound business and fiscal judgement.

Ah, yes. That old corporate trick. Build next to the local guys (Paisano's ... whose food I don't care for either, but at least the money stays in state) and run them out of business. Just what this town needs, another cookie cutter fast food chain. Won't be eating there.

“Logic tells you that site is very likely to get developed all by itself,”

I worked for a restaurant, National chain - not locally owned - sorry, that looked at this site 10 years ago as a new location while the Mazzio's building was still there. They decided against pursuing it at that time, and it has remained undeveloped since. It's not going to develop all by itself, but granting a tax abatement, rebate or whatever should not be necessary for a national chain who has much deeper pockets than a local business. That being said, what is it really going to take to get it developed? Wishful thinking just aint gonna cut it.

Olive Garden would be a great restaurant for Lawrence. Right now we are surrounded by some very good sports bars, but music is so loud you can't carry on a conversation. And their are more Asian restaurants than I care to count. As middle age and older, there are very few restaurants in Lawrence. We keep wondering why Lawrence business is going to Topeka or Kansas City, give us a few more options.

Ditto, personally am not a fan of Tex Mex or in the mood for a gutbusting burger often. Spouse and I like a drink with dinner, where do you go? We frequent Red Lobster and Johnny Cascones O.P. as often as we can.

We are going to try Bambinos if it doesn't turn into something else. How many joints have been at that location.

none2 ever eaten German? Seafood? Great BB@? Cuban? Good Italian? I leave Lawrence at least 3 times a month for the above. Anything but bland.

Geez, don't you get tired of the same old tired Asian and Mexican menus? They must bring in the cheez whiz in by 55 gal. barrels in this town. Yuck. Chop up whatever veggies are handy, stir fry put in hot stuff, soy sauce, toss some shrimp serve with rice.

Does Keno's really have edible pizza again? I gave up on it a long time ago. The quality had slipped to the point it wasn't even something I found appetizing and at the same time the price went thru the roof!

It was too bad... it used to be my favorite pizza in town (along with Rudy's). Now it is dead to me.

Anybody got any real rational that new jobs will be created as opposed to job transfers.

Any good reason to give this group more money and not all the other restaurants (businesses) struggling in Lawrence already. How about we not tax businesses and really hammer the rest of us.

Where does this stop? Having started down the path now everybody with a notion of a job wants a subsidy. Natural consequence of assuming that government is directly responsible for jobs as opposed to responsible to create a climate attractive to jobs.

It is amazing how people who believe in government as the solution can be seduced into giving money to the very entity that in another blog they are arguing is immoral and degenerate.

George, somehow I doubt you will find people who appear (in a general sense) to be anti-corporation will be the same people supportive of government funds going to reduce a corporation's taxes. Maybe I'm mistaken and you could provide examples.

I would think it the other way around. Those who rail against anything having to do with the big bad government and who just want government to get out of the way of all business are the ones who are first to suggest tax breaks for businesses. Isn't giving tax breaks to businesses part of the basic Republican platform?

i am against the tax abatement but i think mr. schumm is incorrect about the market not being underserved. we need a place with good plain real food. not mexican, not asian, not burgers or ribs, not sub sandwiches, Furrs type or some simillar buffett type would be great.

The question is how many other chain restaurants has Lawrence given tax breaks to. I don't know why tax payers should give large corporations tax breaks we don't get any.Anything that comes up we have to pay thru the nose for.

Mr. Schumm continues to take a position that is somewhat ironic given the benefits his business received in downtown Lawrence. His establishment benefits from public funding for parking, landscaping and sidewalk maintenance all funded from the City of Lawrence.

The corner of 27th and Iowa has been an eyesoar for decades. The request wil require property taxes to continue being paid at their current level, but to have a portion abated for a time period on the value added to the property. If the City is serious about infill development to help retail update in areas outside of downtown, they need to consider this request closely.

Surefire winners for Lawrence; if I was no so old, I'd give em a try! An authentic Chicken House, a la Strouds, Brookfield, Mary's or Annie's. Also, a good real diner a la East and West coasts and many other college towns. Nuff said!

In certain situations, tax incentives are a good idea. But in a city that is stuffed with all kinds of restaurants and places to eat, to give tax breaks to a third-rate restaurant chain that wouldn't know good Italian food if it hit them in the face, that's just nuts. BTW, I'm a huge free market guy and hate taxes. OG does not need a tax break. Lawrence doesn't need OG.

A) I'd rather have Cheddars! Please come to the West side =)
B) This stupid fear of "the big business taking out little business" is retarded. I mean really. This town is nearing 100k people, its growing at a fairly decent rate. The close-minded people here need to open up and realize that all business is good business. People that like places like Olive Garden often go out of town and spend their money in Topeka and KC. Why not have it spent here? I've tried quite a few of these so called unique mom and pop restaurants. Some are good and the rest are the reason I drive out of town and spend my money there.
C) I really don't get the argument of "Chain restaurants will be the end of local ones". I've lived in many different towns in many different states and guess what! There's plenty of both. The only reason they would fear the chain places is because they know they really aren't all that good. I guarantee I'd still go to Genovese and Tellers.
D) Whats wrong with Olathe? Personally I'd like it if Lawrence was a lot more like OP. At least then I would have to drive 45 mins all the time to get to places I like....

That's fine by most people here if Olive Garden wants to come here. What the majority her object to is the idea of more and bigger tax breaks for them; and, consequently every chain that comes in will have their hand out for a sweet deal.

Whatever happened to the invisible hand of the free market? If they think they can make money here, then let them in. If they can't do it without tax breaks, they can go somewhere else.

I do quite often. Cheddars is by far the best bang for the buck meal that is wonderfully delicious! As well as their Maui Margarita. Besides, its nice to get a brake from this place. Lawrence is like a micro Austin, TX. A place I didn't mind visiting but never wanted to live. I'm personally counting down the days till I move back to Dallas.

I'm tired of driving past that corner and seeing empty lots and businesses closed. It's time for something to go in there. Olive Garden? Okay. Of course, you know you won't be able to get a table for a couple of years, but that's okay too.

That is the reason I drive to Olathe to eat out because of all the places that are in town are either Pizza , mexican or crappy bbq. They need a good italian resteraunt in town. We pay for everything elsein this town what is the difference now.

I'm all for a property tax break on one condition, and that is upon showing proper identification as a Lawrence resident, you get 25% off because you paid for part of the restaurant's business expenses.

Financial incentives? Don't be stupid Lawrence. If there is a market, then the food will pay incentive. If there isn't a market then they will die. Don't wast incentive money on restaurants, spend it on real jobs.

Well, for me at least all this discussion means a trip to OP and Bo Lings for some quality Asian food.

BTW..........whomever suggested Red Lobster serves inferior food ought to think next time they dine in a Lawrence Asian restruant on the verge of going under. The Kaw reference may actually be more true than you think.

That corner is prime retail space ready to build. No need for a zoning variance. How does that qualify for neighborhood revitalization?

Everyone talks about attracting people to Lawrence. Why would anyone come for more of the same? Over the years, we assisted so many retail chains, that our local businesses have not been able to survive. If Olive Garden wants to build in Lawrence, fine. That does not mean the city should be involved.

Lawrence's claim to fame is its local businesses. If we support business, it should be the locals. At the very least, we could support them by not assisting their competition. Free enterprise is way out of whack. The landowner should be on his own, too.