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Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

I didn't have time to read everything (DD1 wants to take a bath and DD2 wants to nurse!) But I did see that Pedi recommended 12 min per side. I really don't like it when docs recommend that because it can lead to OS issues and/or baby not getting enough hindmilk. I say let her completely drain one side before you offer the other side at all. A lot of babies only need one side per feeding. (both my DDs) Also the more you pump the more your body will not regulate itself to her needs. So only pump if you have to miss a feeding. I'll write more later. DDs are demanding. (DD1 is over here saying "I want to take a bath bath bath bath bath bath!)

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

I would STOP the bottles. And just keep nursing. Be prepared to just let her stay at the breast, throw away clocks/watches, timed feedings and waiting is not needed. A lot of people will say oh they can't be hungry again. (I know a friend of mine does that when she is visiting and my son wants to eat all evening long, she will say is he really hungry?, YES babies like to eat all evening, I have found, at least mine has-cluster feeding.) He is growing, and has plenty of wet poopy diapers, he can sit up on his own and is not even 3 months old yet! So he is making milestones, and early at that! But, he nurses a LOT. Especially in the evening. And my MIL and friends like to tell me maybe he needs formula you aren't making enough, etc etc. What ever, if I wasn't making enough why would he want to go back on? Why would he be gaining weight like he is? Why is he so active? He's getting plenty from me, he just likes it a LOT! lol

Keep putting baby at breast, like was said even if you just finished feeding baby 5 minutes ago, just keep on putting baby to breast. When they get fussy and pop off, and then want again, if they do that more then a few times, switch sides. Keep switching sides as you go along. Sometimes in the evening I have to switch sides several times, in one cluster feeding, it last about 3 to 4 hours usually with my children. (DS, and DD both did/do this!). As they get older they get more efficient and it doesn't last so long any more and goes faster. But, the younger they are the longer it seems to take.

The more you give a bottle though the more harm you may do to your supply, the more the baby stimulates your breast and letdowns the more milk your body will make.

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

I guess I may have miscommunicated... I'm sorry...

I WISH my milk flowed like Niagra Falls... It's not. I just had an LC stop by the house yesterday and we determined that I do have low milk supply, as she weighed her prior to a feed, then I fed her, then weighed her again, and she wasn't weighing more than an ounce afterward. DD needs like 2 oz !

I'm pumping with rented hospital grade Symphony pump after every feed (which are about 8-9x a day every 2.5 - 3 hours or so), as suggested by LC, just to stimulate a little more. It's seemed to help, as I'm collecting another ounce after pumping. LC suggested that if she is demanding more, that I feed that extra amount to her in bottle afterward, which is what I'm doing. My question is this -- why is she not taking that extra ounce on the breast if it's there??

I think it would be important to have her weighing a little more by my next visit with LC. She was born 9lbs 7.5 oz, went down about 8%, which is pretty common, and was back up to her birth weight + more at 9lbs 10.5 oz at our doctor visit last Wednesday. I think she should be up a little higher by tomorrow, but as of yesterday, she wasn't but 9lbs 11oz.

So now, I've been feeding her for as long as she wants to stay on. Haven't been following pediatrician's 12 min rule any more. Let her go at it on 1 side, then when she gets frustrated, i go to 2nd side. LC said if she gets frustrated on 2nd side, try 1st side again until completely done. She seems satisfied during daytime feeds.

Last night however, she got rather fussy after nursing, and there was just nothing left, as I tried to pump to see if that was the case... and it was. DH was freaking out saying why is she crying--- she must be hungry -- and she was cuz she sucked down an oz of formula i had on hand. It pained me to have to do that... All my hard work of pumping and nursing... it was like I completely ruined my good 3 day run of strictly Breastmilk. It was also 1130pm and DH was ready for bed as he had to work at 645am.

I'm taking fenugreek, drinking mother's milk tea, and will continue pumping as much as I can. We're doing about 8-9 feedings strictly on breast a day, and only when she screams for more in evening like last night.

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

I do not know this LC so I am going out on a limb here, but just from what you posted, I do NOT like her advice.

First of all, ok pumping after feeding if indeed you did have low supply would be good. However, if you are getting that much AFTER a feeding it does not sound like you have low supply.

Secondly, feeding with a bottle.........UHG, NO! There is many other more breastfeeding friendly ways to feed a child then a bottle, there is a SNS system, and also finger and cup feeding.

Thirdly, this is VERY common in the evening, as I already said above. Almost all babies do this in the evening. I would just keep on feeding, how long did she let you feed before weighing, how many hours did this go on? Cause I can tell you I put my babe on my breast at least 3 hours in the evening cause that's just how they are. DS doesn't actively suck that whole time, but wants near or on that whole time. DD2 she would actively suck 45 minutes straight, then off and on for another 2 hours!

A LOT of babies are only fussy in the evening, so much so there is even a name for is The Witching Hour.

Run and get teh womanly Art of Breastfeeding it will answer so many questions for you.

Believe me not all LC's are the same, or even good at all. My first LC was worthless.

If you think your DD is not getting enough, have her checked for a tongue or lip tie.

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

Hello ladies!
It looks as though my dilemma has been eliminated. I started taking MotherLove Special blend about 4 days ago and LO has been so happy!! Seems as though she's taking plenty of milk, as she's not screaming anymore after her feeds. I also did a test once to see how much milk I was producing in a 15 min. period by pumping and came up with at least 5 oz. total. If that is the case, she's definitely getting what she needs. Only concern i have is about the hindmilk... When I pump, and store it, I can see it in the bottle on top, but it's so small of an amount, like a 2pt line on top. How do I get to the point that she's getting more hind than foremilk? If her feeds are pretty normal now --- 15 minutes or longer sometimes (until she pops off or falls asleep) how can I guarantee she's getting any hindmilk at all?

This BF adventure has many twists and turns, and I'm grateful for your advice through the process.

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

Actually, from what you say right there, you have an oversupply. It is not typical to be able to pump 5 oz (and pumping isn't an indicator of how much milk the baby is getting anyway). And yes, mothers with oversupply can have issues with babies filling up on the less rich early milk and then falling asleep before they get full of fatty milk, which can have its own set of problems. IF baby is OK, don't worry about it. She will be fine. If she starts having green stools, is crabby, is eating often, is not growing well, then you need to start block feeding, which is where you feed baby on the same side for at least 2 feedings, if not more. It depends on how severe the OS is on how much block feeding you need to do. I did it instinctively

I also noticed that about my milk when I had to EP for baby #4 at the beginning. I had so very little fat in my milk, and it was totally because I have a big oversupply. It isn't as bad now that I have my supply balanced to his needs. I did find that eating coconut seemed to increase my fat content, but research says that you can't change milk composition based on what you are eating.

But, if you don't have to, don't pump! That makes oversupply worse. The herbs might be enough to keep your supply where LO is happy. And personally, after breastfeeding three babies and pumping for the fourth, I think pumping makes moms freak out more about things they just don't need to worry about. Nurse your baby until she is happy

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

Only concern i have is about the hindmilk... When I pump, and store it, I can see it in the bottle on top, but it's so small of an amount, like a 2pt line on top. How do I get to the point that she's getting more hind than foremilk? If her feeds are pretty normal now --- 15 minutes or longer sometimes (until she pops off or falls asleep) how can I guarantee she's getting any hindmilk at all?

I don't think you are seeing a demarcation between your hind milk & your foremilk in the bottle. I think you are seeing the fats separating, which is normal. What your breastmilk looks like in a bottle means very little. If you took 10 moms of 10 healthy babies and put their milk in bottles, everyones would look a little different and everyones would be perfectly good milk.

When a baby nurses, the initial flow is usually foremilk, which is thinner than hindmilk. Hindmilk is more fatty (but not purely fat!)

As the nursing session progresses, the milk GRADUALLY changes in makeup from the thinner foremilk to the fattier hindmilk. Its not an either/or type thing, and it is all good, healthy, lifegiving breastmilk.
Your body will make exactly just what baby needs, without you needing to think about it. As long as you are not messing up the natural mechanics of breastfeeding by scheduling feedings or unnecessarily pumping too much, and you are cue feeding at least 10 times a day, not cutting nursing sessions short, allowing baby to finish the first breast first, and babies weight gain and output are normal, there is absolutely nothing else you need to do. Just relax and enjoy your baby.

Do you have a La Leche League meeting or a hospital based new mommy group or something to go to? I think it would be good for you to go out and socialize with other new mommies & their babies. We tend to over worry about our babies and imagine all kind of things we are doing wrong when we are too isolated. Mommys need other mommy friends, if possible, ones who are also positive about breastfeeding.

As pp notes, that giant pump output could indicate oversupply or forceful letdown, but if that is not bothering baby, no need to worry about it. If it is, there are several ways to alleviate the issues of forceful letdown.

Last edited by @llli*lllmeg; December 26th, 2011 at 06:54 PM.
Reason: Added the word unnecessarily before pumping to much

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

My LO is 5 weeks yesterday and either she's having a growth spurt or my milk supply has gone way down. My breasts don't feel full at all either anymore. Three days ago, this wasnt an issue, but noticed the past couple of nights she needed extra to be happy and not scream forever. Last night she needed expressed milk (pumped yesterday) from my stash fed via bottle (i know... sorry!!! -- WWYD with a baby freaking out looking like a ripe tomato crying holy hell at 10pm)
right after her regular 9PM feeding. This AM -- the same thing. Thank goodness I pumped some during feedings early this AM. I have heard that pumping increases supply, so that's why i do it between feedings. Is this wrong? If i'm pumping, why is she still fussy during a feed? Seems like she's not getting enough. And I am clear on what a good latch is, so that's not the issue either.

FF would be so much easier, and in her 1st & 2nd week I had to supplement because my milk wasn't enough at the time. But I completely weaned her off of F because I know it's not as good as BF.

but i've worked so hard to BF for the past 5 weeks that I don't want to give up. do i pump more? i'm drinking enough water - 8 + glasses a day. eating well. taking motherlove special blend 4x a day. registered for BF support class next thursday.
baby is content sleeping now but that's after BF her, then listening to her hunger cry and fed 2oz.

Re: New Mommy with Latch Issues

A lot of moms hit this exact bump in the breastfeeding road. Usually what is going on is NOT low milk supply. It's normal supply mistaken for low supply. Here's what generally happens: when a mom starts nursing, she overproduces milk. This is the body's way of ensuring that the newborn gets enough to eat while mastering the tricky art of breastfeeding. A mom with oversupply may be able to get multiple oz of milk when she pumps (like 5 oz at a time, hint hint! ), may frequently feel "full", and her baby may become accostomed to an easy and rapid flow of milk. While oversupply sounds like a good idea- baby gets her meal and then some, right?- it's not desirable because producing extra milk is a waste of energy and puts mom at increased risk for nasty things like plugged ducts and mastitis. So eventually the body reduces supply to meet the baby's demand very exactly. At this point, mom will feel "empty" most of the time, her pumping yield will decrease, and her baby may act fussy because the milk is a little harder to get out, and babies don't like to work for their meals.

So, what do you do? At this point the absolute best thing you can do is ro count diapers carefully and to pretend the pump and the bottles do not exist. Counting diapers gives you a good idea of milk intake: good output = good input. And as far as pump and bottles go, if you use them you can easily get trapped in a vicious cycle of pumping and bottle-feeding every time your baby fusses, and that will happen more often because the baby learns that the faster she fusses the faster she gets that easy bottle. And because the pump isn't as good at maintaining supply as a nursing baby, before you know it your pump output declines and you start supplementing with formula, and that's a ticket to the end of your breastfeeding journey.

Evening fussiness is very, very normal in babies your baby's age. It's usually not caused bylow milk supply. It's just a development stage that many babies go through. Here are some things which can help you cope:
- Nurse as much as possible. If baby comes off the breast screaming, try putting her back on, and switching breasts multiple times. But she may not go back on, and if she doesn't, it's probably because she's not hungry.
- Motion. Cranky babies like to be rocked, swstake carried in a sling while mom/dad takes a walk, taken for car or stroller rides.
- White noise. Good for calming an overstimulated baby.
- Water. Try a warm bath in the sink!
- Fresh air. Take baby outside, well-bundled if it's cold where you live.
- Being held close in arms or in a sling.
- Calm. Turn down the lights, turn off the tv and stereo. You're aiming to calm an overstimulated tiny brain, and the media that we adults can easily tune out really impact babies!