"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

There is an Insider vid saying that teams travelled for 4 days getting to Botswana.

Peach, thanks for directing me to the Insider video with Katie stating "it took us 4 days and 6 flights to get to Maun." I say that's rubbish, as that would be highly unlikely from what we know about flights! The Amazing Line for flights on last night's telecast showed HAN to HKG to JNB. With the actual flight information for the relevant dates and those routes I cited above, here is what I believe happened:

Nov. 23 (although everything could be moved one day if there was some extended pit stop we do not know about and cannot take into account - HAN HKGNov. 23 - departure HKG (same comment)Nov. 24 - arrival JNB and transfer JNB MUB arriving early afternoon (same comment); there was obviously an overnight in Maun although I would have flown them out to the Makgadikgali Pans and made them sleep on cots!Nov. 25 - final flight MUB to Xhumaga airstrip departing between 9am and 930am

That's exactly 4 flights, with it very unlikely that any alternate routes from HKG to JNB were used. It happened in total elapsed time of an apparent 47 hours plus the time zone difference of 5 hours between HKG and MUB, for a real total of approximately 52 hours in route. That's not 4 days no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps Katie was adding in the overnight hours in Hanoi, but that still would not get it to more than 63 hours (2.7 days).

There is an Insider vid saying that teams travelled for 4 days getting to Botswana.

Peach, thanks for directing me to the Insider video with Katie stating "it took us 4 days and 6 flights to get to Maun." I say that's rubbish, as that would be highly unlikely from what we know about flights! The Amazing Line for flights on last night's telecast showed HAN to HKG to JNB. With the actual flight information for the relevant dates and those routes I cited above, here is what I believe happened:

Nov. 23 (although everything could be moved one day if there was some extended pit stop we do not know about and cannot take into account - HAN HKGNov. 23 - departure HKG (same comment)Nov. 24 - arrival JNB and transfer JNB MUB arriving early afternoon (same comment); there was obviously an overnight in Maun although I would have flown them out to the Makgadikgali Pans and made them sleep on cots!Nov. 25 - final flight MUB to Xhumaga airstrip departing between 9am and 930am

That's exactly 4 flights, with it very unlikely that any alternate routes from HKG to JNB were used. It happened in total elapsed time of an apparent 47 hours plus the time zone difference of 5 hours between HKG and MUB, for a real total of approximately 52 hours in route. That's not 4 days no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps Katie was adding in the overnight hours in Hanoi, but that still would not get it to more than 63 hours (2.7 days).

I quoted all times as it happened in my time, should be an easy conversion.

Logged

"Our fans are pretty good. They don't give away too much. Sometimes people love dropping spoilers, but our fans are good. They tend to do it in such a way that doesn't ruin it for fans who don't want to know."--Phil Keoghan

"Nov. 23 (although everything could be moved one day if there was some extended pit stop we do not know about and cannot take into account) - HAN HKG

So you can change all the dates I cited to one day later and all the flights still work plus there are additional flights in each of the same time frame going on the same routes:

HAN HKGKA296 1055 1333 or WN592 1040 1322

HKG JNBSA287 2333 0644+1 or CX749 2345 0620+1

We do not have precise times for JNB MUB, just these schedules for every day: BP212 1140 1320 or 4Z8300 1145 1325

We can assume that leg 6 did not reach Maun until Nov. 26 and with leg 27 probably beginning early on Nov. 27 leg 8 could not be earlier than Nov. 28. If there was an extended pit stop in Africa, then it could have been Nov. 29.

Fights MUB JNB are the same schedules for Nov. 28 and Nov. 29; we have those as 4Z8301 1400 1540 or BP211 1420 1600

We now have the nonstop flight JNB ZRH as Nov. 28 LX289 2102 0616+1 or Nov. 29 LX289 2048 0611+1

There is an Insider vid saying that teams travelled for 4 days getting to Botswana.

Peach, thanks for directing me to the Insider video with Katie stating "it took us 4 days and 6 flights to get to Maun." I say that's rubbish, as that would be highly unlikely from what we know about flights! The Amazing Line for flights on last night's telecast showed HAN to HKG to JNB. With the actual flight information for the relevant dates and those routes I cited above, here is what I believe happened:

Nov. 23 (although everything could be moved one day if there was some extended pit stop we do not know about and cannot take into account - HAN HKGNov. 23 - departure HKG (same comment)Nov. 24 - arrival JNB and transfer JNB MUB arriving early afternoon (same comment); there was obviously an overnight in Maun although I would have flown them out to the Makgadikgali Pans and made them sleep on cots!Nov. 25 - final flight MUB to Xhumaga airstrip departing between 9am and 930am

That's exactly 4 flights, with it very unlikely that any alternate routes from HKG to JNB were used. It happened in total elapsed time of an apparent 47 hours plus the time zone difference of 5 hours between HKG and MUB, for a real total of approximately 52 hours in route. That's not 4 days no matter how you look at it.

Perhaps Katie was adding in the overnight hours in Hanoi, but that still would not get it to more than 63 hours (2.7 days).

I believe the four day comment is valid when you consider it as the number of calendar days touched in the process of getting from Hanoi to the first task of the leg.

November 23rd: Teams are released beginning at 10:40 pmNovember 24th: Teams take their flights from HAN to HKG (and HKG to JNB with its takeoff at 11:45 pm)November 25th: Teams land at JNB and take their flights to MUB and spending the night waiting for the charter flights in the morningNovember 26th: Teams take their charter flights starting at 9:00 am

Chateau, Is the glass half empty or half full? It depends on how you look at it. Although Katie and you are technically correct that 4 total days (one for only 26 minutes) were involved, it was still only 2.7 days elapsed time. I find what you and Katie are stating very misleading.

Another element to consider is the number of time zones involved in the travel. That's more of a subjective sense for the racers actually doing the traveling.

Which is a roundabout way of saying that for the teams, it must have felt like four days of travel, and teams would have had to get ready for their release from the pit stop in Hanoi, especially if they got to sleep during their rest period. So I can understand that perception of four days in the comment.

[/quote]Actually, Dr. Rox, there is nothing "updated" about your schedules. The Maun to Johannesburg schedule (no actual available as we both know) remain as I stated them in post 147 above.

The Johannesburg to Zurich schedule for departure Nov. 28 and arrival Nov. 29 is LX289 2102 0616+1. That's only 6 minutes arrival time different and 37 minutes departure time different, but your revision is not correct.

The big problem I have with your update is with your using train times from 24 minutes and 57 minutes for arrival inside the plane in Zurich airport. Switzerland has been a Schwengen system member since 12 December 2008. Entry into the Schwengen system is a little bit more rigorous since once inside it travelers can cross European borders with minimal delay (that applies to Zurich to Berlin flights coming up in leg 9). I can see SwissRail departures from Zurich airport to be maybe as early as 743am, but not before. Arrival times for that would be one hour earlier than I posted for 843am and at 957am in Interlaken Ost. The question of where teams are going for the leg 8 tasks is moot from a train departure standpoint if the current ideas on the table (Brig or Visp from me and Interlaken Ost or West from you) are correct.

Well, one of the things that you learn as a by-product of doing Amazing Race transportation research is that from Zurich, the only airport you can fly directly to is Tegel. I am not sure whether there was an extended pit stop in Switzerland. If I were designing a race I would certainly put one there (as well as one in Botswana). It is likely that teams ran leg 8 on Nov. 29, so they would be ready to head for Berlin on Nov. 30 or likely Dec. 1. Here are the actual flights ZRH to TXL on both dates:

It is possible, although in my judgment unlikely, that teams may be required to use train travel to get from Zurich to Berlin. There are trains on every hour from 6am to 4pm. All require 1 or 2 changes. for the ones on the even-numbered hour, the change is typically at Hannover. For ones on odd numbers, the change is typically at Basel. One of the trains changes at Basel and Frankfurt and one at Basel and Hannover. The duration of the on-the-hour departures from Zurich varies from 8 hours 4 minutes to 8 hours 25 minutes.

The statement for leg 8 that teams arrived Zurich around 2pm makes it hard to back-calculate how this was done. The first flights Maun to JNB were as stated in an earlier post, 2pm and 220pm departures. I already knew that the nonstops to Zurich arrived at 0610 on Nov. 29 or at 0616 on Nov. 30, also stated in an earlier post.

That left be searching for alternate routes that would land on those dates in Zurich around 2pm and the answer to that was the null set. I tried connecting in Addis Ababa, Cairo, Munich, Frankfurt, Paris-CDG and Rome. Nothing got to Zurich at the stated time. The only one remotely close was via AMS. Here are the flights:

BER Brandenburg--under construction, no fligts land here at this time. Possible opening in 2014 or later.EDBT Allstedt--no commerical flights since the 1920s when Templehof opened. A research center since then to the 1950s. Berlin's first airport, opened in 1909GWW Gatow (an RAF facility)--Cold War British zone airfield, closed in 1995SFX Schoenfield--East German/Soviet Berlin airfield. Operates today and will close when Brandenburg is completed. One runway will be come part of Brandenburg Airport. The Schoenfield terminal will become a German Govt. VIP terminal.TWF Tempelhof--Cold War American zone airfield, closed in 2008.TXL Tegel--Cold War French Zone airfield. Operates today, it will close when Brandenburg is opened. It has most of all the commerical flights into Berlin at this time.

There are only two commerical airports in Berlin at present, Tegel and Schoenfield. As apskip stated, only Tegel receives flights from Zurich. Tegel is located in north central Berlin.

That left be searching for alternate routes that would land on those dates in Zurich around 2pm and the answer to that was the null set. I tried connecting in Addis Ababa, Cairo, Munich, Frankfurt, Paris-CDG and Rome. Nothing got to Zurich at the stated time. The only one remotely close was via AMS.

This combination is the most probably one I have found. It fits nicely with taking the train from Zurich at 15:40. Sure, there were two earlier flights from London in the day, but they may have been full.

As Professor Henry Higgins was fond of saying "I think you've got it." I looked at 7 different connections and reported the closest one, Amsterdam. The Nov. 29th London-Heathrow to Zurich flight does not match well with the time required for Schengen zone initial entry, finding the rail station and buying a ticket at 51 minutes in Zurich. However, the flight on Nov. 30th is almost a perfect fit with what a match with reported time on the telecast requires:

11/30 BA714 1118 1402

The UK has not joined the Schengen zone, which means that passengers from outside the zone on this itinerary would be screened for it in Zurich.

finding the rail station and buying a ticket at 51 minutes in Zurich. However, the flight on Nov. 30th is almost a perfect fit with what a match with reported time on the telecast requires:

11/30 BA714 1118 1402

The problem with that is that we have strong indications that teams did race in Grindelwald on the 30th. Phil was spotted on that date and we see that date filmed at least once in the episode (as teams arrive at Kleine Scheidegg). This means they had to arrive in Zurich on the 29th.

So the question is if it is probable that teams managed to catch the 15.40 train when their delayed flight landed at 14:49. I believe that this is possible with a bit of luck, short immigration lines and no checked luggage.

The problem with that is that we have strong indications that teams did race in Grindelwald on the 30th. Phil was spotted on that date and we see that date filmed at least once in the episode (as teams arrive at Kleine Scheidegg). This means they had to arrive in Zurich on the 29th.

So the question is if it is probable that teams managed to catch the 15.40 train when their delayed flight landed at 14:49. I believe that this is possible with a bit of luck, short immigration lines and no checked luggage.

Looking at Zurich arrivals on Nov 29......there was a non Shengen flight one hour before and a small non Shengan flight about 30 minutes(2:18) before that flight arrived at 2:49. I wouldn't think that there would be much of a line by the time our racers arrived. Seems to me to be plenty of time to clear immigration/customs and get a train.

I have been trying to track down a schedule for stops and pickups at the Eigerwand "flag stop". I did not get off there when I visited but remember it as not a real station, just a point where passengers got off or on to view the Gletschsglacier. Here are the train schedules for afternoon from Jungfraujoch down to Grindelwald Grund station:

So all teams must have gotten on the first or second of these at Jungfraujoch and exited at Eigerwand minutes later. 4 teams would have reboarded the next train and arrived Grindelwald Grund. Joey/Meghan and Churck/Wynona would have been on the following train down.

When I look at the sunset for Grindelwald Nov. 29, 2011 (which I have to estimate based on a 7 minute offset from Geneva) it was at 445pm.

Swiss Railroads changed their schedules about once a year in December. So the scedules were changed after TAR used the railroads in Swizterland. The earliest train leaving Grindelwald is about 6:00 am.

The telecast showed teams going to Basel from Interlaken and then from Basel to Munich.This really doesnt make much sense. That makes it an ~8 hour trip to Munich. Most of the train connections go through Mannheim, Germany. It takes about 3 hours to ride the train from Mannheim to Munich. But Mannheim is only about 30 minutes from the Frankfurt airport by train.

I need to rewatch the program and see where Phil is....I dont remember him in Dresden.