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It's funny. A few chapters ago i thought the pic of the hanging zetsus (especially the spiraling one) suggested that obito spent time in them as if the were like cacoons and grew the hashirama matter into him. Doesn't look so anymore. I still say it's 50/50 if zetsu matter was used to constitute obito's new body parts. Zetsu matter has an ingredient that makes it more than hashirama matter by itself. Whatever the case, his hashirama parts broke on impact. Perhaps it was incorrect to say obito had half hashirama body but really is half zetsu. It's confusing, can obito use zetsu's chakra mimic ability that hashirama was never mentioned to have used or does obito only have hashirama abilities and lack the zetsu ones. I like your explanations, zero, it's just not all adding up yet. Zetsu is a compound of things beyond just hashirama cellular base but obito displays overwhelming powerful use of mokuton at a young age, something zetsu seems incapable of doing.

I think i make things more confusing because i did not precisely ask the important question, what is different between zetsu physically and obito's hashirama body? I think there is a difference but i think most of you don't.

Here is a different question, if the gedou mazou was destroyed, would the zetsus die?

It's amazing how much gore was in this chapter... it simply didn't feel like a chapter of Naruto. So dark, so violent... Kishi upped the shock-value on Obito's descent into "Hell." While there are still many questions unanswered (particularly the reasons why Rin had to die and the nature of Obito's combination with Spiral Zetsu), things have certainly become pretty dramatic... there's no way Obito wasn't fundamentally changed by his experiences. Whatever forces Madara used to corrupt/brianwash him beyond this point, it won't change the fact that he became a cold-blooded killer of his own volition the moment he saw Rin die. It's the same as if Naruto were to give himself over to a Kyuubi Rampage after seeing Hinata get "killed", except in this case Minato never showed up to save him.

i've been thinking. kakashi's personality was drastically changed when obito's sharingan was given to him. i wonder if having half zetzu's body has altered obito's personality and perception. if you think about it, it must have a huge influence in how obito is now.

i've been thinking. kakashi's personality was drastically changed when obito's sharingan was given to him. i wonder if having half zetzu's body has altered obito's personality and perception. if you think about it, it must have a huge influence in how obito is now.

I'm not sure which radical change you mean. Do you mean he became a cold blooded assassin at that moment and then he disposed of Rin? It is still not obvious he had the possibility to decide about her death (nor that he did it himself). Remember he asked Tobi "Are you gonna put the blame on me?"

Originally Posted by Zero

Originally Posted by paulbee

The reason for connecting the spiral Zetsu to the Root of the Mazou is this: Obito borrowed some power from the Mazou as an extra boost, to be able to smash the rock blocking his escape path.

The thing is, he was already connected before the L Zetsu came. This might imply that Rin's death was really Madara'd doing... or the moment that L Zetsu came close enough, he got the info telepathically and connected himself to Mazou, because he knew how Obito would react and that he would need his help to get out.

I aggree with Paulbee and don't quite follow what you mean. At the moment Obito broke his arm on the rock he was not connected to the Mazou. At the moment he broke the rock, he was in the Zetsu and the Zetsu was connected to the Mazou. It was clearly stated immediatly after that it was a smart move and that the breaking power came from the Mazou through the actual physical connection. Or did I miss something?

I aggree with Paulbee and don't quite follow what you mean. At the moment Obito broke his arm on the rock he was not connected to the Mazou. At the moment he broke the rock, he was in the Zetsu and the Zetsu was connected to the Mazou. It was clearly stated immediatly after that it was a smart move and that the breaking power came from the Mazou through the actual physical connection. Or did I miss something?

I meant that the Spiral Zetsu was already connected to the Root, when he jumped over to Obito (after he destroyed his arm) and then decided to help him. This means that the Spiral Zetsu was already connected to the Root for another purpose than helping Obito, or so it seems, as he might have as well got the info telepathically and have prepared himself to help Obito in advance even before the Left Zetsu spoke with Obito.

I meant that the Spiral Zetsu was already connected to the Root, when he jumped over to Obito (after he destroyed his arm) and then decided to help him. This means that the Spiral Zetsu was already connected to the Root for another purpose than helping Obito, or so it seems, as he might have as well got the info telepathically and have prepared himself to help Obito in advance even before the Left Zetsu spoke with Obito.

Oh, that? Yes. You're right. One of the several indications that leads to believe the death of Rin in front of Obito was staged from the start.

One more indication that nobody seems to have picked up is Zetsu saying "that's why Madara chosed you". So far we were told Obito ended up by chance in Madara's cave. If Obito is chosen (meanining chosen among several candidates), it means he was chosen before being crushed (because after, he was always alone). So were the bolders crushing him also staged?

I would like to take a step back (been away for some days) to the early of the topic about the MS activation.

To try to not write much and becoming boring, ill first start with the situations that have made me believe in a new theory about MS awakening.

In Sasuke's case, his MS activated in the battle against Itachi, but he never delivered the final blow, he fought to kill him sure, but what demeaned Itachi's loss, was the fact that his body couldn't take it anymore due to his long term illness (witch he knew and planned the fight according to that).

Even in Itachi's case, when he show's the truth to Sasuke, we only see Sishiu giving his eye to Itachi, we never have any proof that Itachi did in fact kill him.

Now, in this chapter, we have the confirmation that both Kakasi and Obito, activate their MS, because the death of Rin (their respective best friend at that time), but again, Obito only watched Rin die (like to previous examples), only Kakashi does reality (in all manga) to the words "you have to kill your best friend".

Sometime ago, in a galaxy far far away.... nah just kidding, but really sometime ago, i came to a theory because, in the Sharigan users that we know, only Kakashi did really kill a best friend, but in all others, we assume that because of those words, but they only watched (that we know for sure) their friends die, they didn't kill them.

I believe that the words "you have to kill your best friend", are a metaphor/riddle to the real meaning of that idea, you have to experience/watch the death/loss of your best friend/loved one.

If you think about it, it makes sense, Sasuke looses his brother, Itachi his best friend, Obito is loved one, and Kakashi is best friend also.
So why would the words be like that and not, you have to see the person die ? well, what would happen if your best friend/loved one was sent on a different mission, in another team/squad and died ? it would be the loss of a dear one, but MS wouldn't activate because the user wouldn't be present to see the other one die.

So the only way to be sure MS activates when the closest person to you dies, and you watch it, is to kill that person yourself, but i do not believe that, the killing yourself part is extremely a requirement, only that you witness that.

The first plausible flaw i could think was Sasuke parents (in the very far likelihood that an uchiha could activate Sharingan and MS in the same moment or experience, but Sasuke really doesn't see his parents die, they are already dead when he arrives at home

Just my 2 cents, but open to flaws or discussion

About the vision loss of MS, i think that Kakashi hasn't lost so many like Itachi or Sasuke (before EMS), his due to the fact that he always in his life (since he had the sharigan), train and disciplined himself to rely in his skills and chakra capacity and therefore using only the eye when he really need it, because using the sharigan consumes chakra, and that's why he has it covered all the time.
In the MS case, when the eyes perform a MS technique, the eye is put to some strain due to the power of that technique, and normally, when the user, uses MS is in "big style" like Susano'o, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi or any other powerfull MS related tech.
In Kakashi's case, his Kamui's are always in small things/objects like kunais, rasengans, and those were in the last few chapters, even when he tried it on Deidara, he was some distance away, and the far the object his, the smaller it appears to be and the harder is hit it good.
The same could apply to GM neck, but that depends on the distance Kakashi is from it, but still, ony that and the naruto clone, arent enough to deteriorate his vision like Itachi or Sasuke, and the eye's vision only looses his sight from MS use, i think that Itachi says that in some chapter i think, so a normal sharigan doesnt loose his eye sight, because not anyone activates MS, witch is suppose to be a secret of the Uchiha and not comum knowledge, unless all the Uchiha clan become blind people, sharigan or MS users lol lol

Oh, that? Yes. You're right. One of the several indications that leads to believe the death of Rin in front of Obito was staged from the start.

One more indication that nobody seems to have picked up is Zetsu saying "that's why Madara chosed you". So far we were told Obito ended up by chance in Madara's cave. If Obito is chosen (meanining chosen among several candidates), it means he was chosen before being crushed (because after, he was always alone). So were the bolders crushing him also staged?

I don't think anyone missed that indication. Everyone knows Madara arranged for Obito's present circumstances, but we don't know enough to say much more than that. We don't know when Madara first considered Obito a candidate, or what made Obito more viable than any other candiddate (other than his availability / vulnerability). "Madara chose you" is obviously a very vague phrase meant to hint at what we already know, that Madara arranged things so he could use Obito.

Basically, we all know it's significant/suspicious, but it's too vague to even imply much/anything we don't already know/suspect.