OT: Lions player accused verbally harassing UW Band

Didn't see this on here, but Lions Center Raiola has been accused of verbally harassing members of the UW marching band prior to the beginning of the game. I don't know much about him and I didn't see the game, did anyone hear anything about this?

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pretty much par for the course for the Lions as an organization. A bunch of wannabe thugs that have never won anything and never will. It starts from the top down with Schwartz and filters on through to guys like Suh and Raiola

Thanks for the input, but he is right. Schwartz coaches undisciplined and he has had plenty of time to correct it. That will never will a championship over the fundamental teams in the NFL. Their penalties alone have lost quite a few games.

The Super Bowl champion Baltimore Ravens had more personal fouls last year than any other team in the NFL and it wasn't even close.

I'm not saying that the Lions are going to win the Super Bowl, but the whole penalty thing is overblown.

Do you know who has been the least penalized team in the NFL this year?

The Jacksonville Jaguars.

Last year the Lions were ranked 11th fewest in penalty yards. They were one of the least penalized teams in the league.

The amazingly disciplined and just all around great from the top down Packers had the second most penalty yards. The Colts had the most. Both of them were playoff teams.

Peyton Manning's Broncos and Tom Brady's Patriots, with their amazing coaches, their tremendous discipline, and their unrivaled leadership, also had far more penalty yards than the Lions did last year.

It's not total penalties, it's the type of penalties and the timeliness of them. It's the sheer stupidity in addressing certain issues and the lack of adjustments to gameplans. Make excuses if you want, but this team could be better in different hands.

I hate all the bashing on here of my favorite NFL team. Yes they have some players who make some dumb decisions on and off the field, but how about instead of saying "SAME OLD LOINS LOL" just shut up and quit bashing the team. It's fucking annoying.

He stated, and I quote, "pretty much par for the course for the Lions as an organization. A bunch of wannabe thugs that have never won anything and never will. It starts from the top down with Schwartz and filters on through to guys like Suh and Raiola."

Is not a wannabe thug. He is just not a very good head football coach who has trouble motivating his players. He does not convey a buck stops here attitude and consequently his pkayers don't take accoubtability for their conduct on or off the field. He is at best a "meh" coach. He needs a big year or he is history. He may be a guy who lands back at a solid to elite coordinator position. Call it a clique but he just does not have that "it."

3-2, tied for the lead in the division and just lost a game against one of the best organizations in football with the most valuable player in the league out and came up just short in a game at Arizona. Let's not forget they have three relatively easy wins over playoff teams from last year. But man, he's a terrible coach. He led the team to their first playoff birth this millenium. What a scrub!

Seriously, everyone is a bunch of ungrateful assholes and it makes me not want to come around the Board posts that often.

and most of the others players are such thugs. Oh, wait, they're not. You obviously are a Buckeye because no UM fan could be so fucking stupid as to label entire franchise based off the actions of three players.

I have to reply again, because I get so sick of the media spin that plays a huge role in tagging the Lions with this BS.

Let's look at everyone's model franchse, the New England Patriots...

Rodney Harrison was considered far and away the dirtiest player in the league for a long time and was practically celebrated for his hard nosed play.

They drafted Brandon Merriweather, who started a fight and stomped on an opposing player during a game. He was also involved in a shooting incident where he was shot at and returned fire on the shooters.

Aquib Talib got into a fist fight with a teammate, beat up a taxi cab driver, pulled a gun on his sister's boyfriend and shot at him.

Alphonso Dennard beat up a police officer and was arrested for a DUI while on probation for beating up said police officer.

Dante Stallworth killed a guy while driving drunk, and the Pats brought him in.

Corey Dillon was a serial wife beater and the Pats had no problem with bringing him in.

Albert Haynesworth, he also of the stomping, was brought in by the Pats. Haynesworth also paralyzed a guy in a car accident when he was driving over 100mph on the freeway. He also impregnated a stripper and failed to pay any child support, and punched another guy in a road rage incident.

Chad Ochocinco (need I say more?) was brought in.

How about Willie Andrews, with gun charges, assaulting his girlfriend, and pulling a gun on her.

Oh, and I haven't even brought up Aaron Hernandez yet.

I could go on and on because the Pats are one of the worst offenders when it comes to employing shitty people, but no one ever brings it up.

Winning gives you a pass, but the facts are still the facts. The Pats are a far dirtier organization than the Lions. Hell, it wasn't the Lions who were involved in one of the largest sports cheating scandals of the past decade (Spygate).

Nothing like comparing a model franchise to the laughing stock of the NFL since the 50s. At some point you get some leeway in making "questionable" decisions when you establish success, and speaking of overblown: spygate.

That just shows you are trolling with no facts and saying inflammatory shit cause you don't like the Lions. Congrats, we get it.
Also, saying Patriots and model franchise in 2013 is about the funniest GD thing I've heard In a long time. You do realize one of their top players is locked up without bail and about to go on trial for 3 murders, right? Way to stay current with your meme's.

For the last Nebraska vs Michigan game in the big house I saw him yelling at a group of Michigan fans from the sidelines for the better part of the game. He seemed like a real asshole, but then again I'm sure he was probably yelling back at assholes.

He's been fined for alteractions with fans before. Doesn't surprise me sadly. Before any comments about Schwartz and the lack of discipline, some his incidents were pre-Schwartz but it's not like he's does much to reign his players in.

He has been on the Lions for over a decade and is one of the few players over that stretch of time who has been proud to suit up in the Honolulu Blue. He's been undersized and an underdog throughout his career and that massive chip on his shoulder has manifested itself in many ways over the years. One of those ways is his complete disdain for douche bag "fans" and their shitty "LOLIONS!" comments.

This is going to come down to a they said-he said sort of deal, and obviously as the professional athlete in this scenario he's going to lose almost every time, particularly when the other side are a bunch of college kids.

He shouldn't have been mean to them, even assuming they were heckling the Lions.

However, that doesn't mean the guy is a classes thug, a douche bag, or a terrible human being.

The flipside is that just because he is a tough competitor and plays hard for his team, it doesn't mean that he's not a douche bag and a terrible human being. I would certainly think that if he is getting into a yelling match with college kids at his age and saying the things he (allegedly) said, he is a bit immature, at least.

He's almost the reciprocal of Suh, who plays like a complete moron at times, but then seems to be a good guy off the field.

I surprised anyone could give Raiola a pass for homophobic and mysogynisit slurs. This is beyond a he said/she said situation when there are several witnesses to raiola acting like a buffoon on the sideline.

When there are one or two witnesses there is a question. But to have several witnesses from outside the band, I think I am willing to take the Wisconsin band's side for the first time in history (especially knowing the history between the UW band and Michigan). This is not Raiola's first incident either.

Just part of Raiola's ignorant, jackass MO. He is a pro bowl lineman. It is time he starts acting like a professional and not like a hick from the backwoods of Nebraska.

I don't twist things around to fit anything. I am a scientist and a teacher and the only thing I care about are facts. I am just surprised anyone can support raiola anymore, when we have such high character guys like Bush, megatron, and Delmas on the team.

You do have a point about how the lions get blown out of proportion when compared to the Pats.

He yelled at a couple of unruly fans and flicked them off. It astounds me that fans can throw crap in the stands and yell at guys and (typically) get away with it, but a player yells back or flips someone off and he gets hit with pretty substantial fines. Spectators should be able to voice their displeasure with a performance without making asses of themselves, and the refrain that "they pay the ticket, they can do what they want" and "he should be a professional" rings hollow to me, considering you'd be escored from most premises for behavior 1/10th as idiotic as you see at professional sports contests.

What a hypocrite. Raiola has been known for years to be a blowhard. You critique a model franchise in the NFL for just about literally everything they have done questionably and defend the saddest franchise in the NFL. The Lions are a joke, and will continue to be a joke in spite of your blind homerism until the Fords sell the team.

Verbal harassment is a way of life for the UW marching band. They've gotten themselves introuble twice, and one time suspended -- that's the whole freaking band -- in mid-football season. And I'm quite proud of the fact that both UW band suspensions occurred as a result of UW band trips to Ann Arbor. Something about Michigan makes them crazy.

From a 2008 ESPN story:

MADISON, Wis. -- The University of Wisconsin marching band has been suspended indefinitely while allegations of hazing, alcohol abuse and sexual misconduct are investigated.

The band won't play Saturday during a nationally televised football game between the No. 18 Badgers and No. 14 Ohio State at Camp Randall Stadium.

The university made the announcement at a hastily called news conference Friday night, saying the behavior is consistent with conduct that put the band on probation in 2006.

Mike Leckrone, band director since 1969, said he made the decision and it was the first time in his tenure the entire band has ever been suspended and prevented from playing at a game.

Leckrone said he informed the 300 band members at 4:30 p.m. Friday.

"My feeling was I hit them between the eyes with a sledgehammer," he said.

No details were immediately released about the behavior, only that it involved inappropriate alcohol use, hazing and sexualized behavior. Leckrone said it involved only a small number of band members, but it was significant enough to warrant the suspension.

He and Dean of Students Lori Berquam refused to discuss any details while the investigation by Berquam's office is ongoing.

The Wisconsin band is not banned from coming to Michigan, especially not for the piano thing. That incident happened, IIRC, in the 1980s, and they've been back multiple times since. Standard operating procedure when Wisconsin comes to town is to make sure everything that can walk away is in a locker, and someone keeps an eye on the piano.

The two times they came when I was in the band, it didn't matter much. Most of them were out in the Gray Lot downing beers in full uniform.

Great. But when I was in the band, before 2008, this story not only had already happened, but we were told to be on the lookout to make sure they didn't try it again. So, sorry, your friend was feeding you incomplete/wrong information.

I helped the band out with security for a couple years after I graduated. The first year, the Badger mascot got on the field and ran through the Michigan Band disrupting the pregame show. I was assigned to shadow the weasel during the half time show to make sure a repeat didn't happen.

The cheerleaders grabbed him later in the game and "poled" him on the goalpost. It seemed a bit rougher than what they had done with other mascots and cheerleaders. No one complained.

I found SBNation's piece on the subject - (HERE) - and it directs people to a Facebook entry from someone who was supposedly a victim of Raiola's words. That link is (HERE), and if it is to be believed, Raiola went over all sorts of lines, but we'll see what the investigation turns up.

I would give you he stepped way over the line when yelling at the girl, but as for the rest of that facebook post, there was nothing that was described that was any worse than what a lot of fans say at game to opposing fans and bands week in and week out. I'm not saying that I would say these things at a game because I go to actually watch the game and analyze what goes on each play (I know I'm in the minority), but I've had a hell of a lot worse yelled at me regularly by opposing fans. Try going to East Lansing or the Horseshoe wearing anything Michigan and then you can talk about "verbal abuse". It seems like the band member had some pretty thin skin if all it takes for someone to be "literally the worst person I have ever had the fortune to encounter" is to call someone in the band fat, say they can't play a real sport and to talk about someone's mom/sister.

i was in the band and in 2011 in east lansing they honored their baseball team for something and some of them spit on some picc players as they walked past us. then after they won their team ran over to the band and basically taunted the trumpet section in the same way raiola did here. so yeah it could be worse, if your in the band you can be seen as a pretty easy target. this is relatively mild in comparison

you can't say "well look what THEY did..."
Raiola is a veteran professional, who gets paid millions of dollars per year. as Schwartz said, NFL players have to be above the sort of actions Raoila displayed.

No, I get the concept (I have my own FB account). But think about it: this guy's totally pissed off that a football player called him gay and apparently insulted his dead mother, and then almost 400 people chose to tell him, in effect, that they liked hearing that.

I went to a seattle v detroit game in seattle and Raiola keep turning to the crowd and telling the fans to "SUCK MY MOTHERF***IN D*CK" over and over so the second I saw the post I knew it was Raiola. ha

Not defending Raiola at all, but my level of outrage over this incident is directly proportional to the reality that the Wisconsin band is essentially the Regina George of the Big Ten marching band landscape.

Yeah, um, Raiola annoys the shit out of me because his talk-to-talent ratio is far too high, but even I have a hard time believing he simply ran up to a bunch of innocent, angelic band members and cursed them out for no reason at all. I fully support any action the Lions will take against him, because he was out of line, but I also refuse to pretend there wasn't an iota of culpability from someone in the band.

Yeah, that's where I stand on this as well. Typically, people don't get verbally abused for no reason. It's not like Raiola verbally abuses every single person he walks past, so there's probably a reason he did so here.

I'm not saying his actions were in the right or that he's not set off a little too easily, but I'd be willing to bet a literal buttload of money that there was plenty of shit talking on both sides.

A lot of Suh's "incidents" have been complete BS, IMO. A lot of them were media driven stories to create this false narrative of both Suh and the Lions so that talking heads have something to direct their faux outrage at.

It's just become a giant anti-Suh circle jerk at ESPN.

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Take the Sullivan incident....

I've seen people making claims that Suh not only attempted to injure Sullivan, but that he was aware of Sullivan's prior injury history with regard to his knee, so he intentionally dove into that knee with the malicious intent to end Sullivan's career.

It is complete and utter insanity.

What happens if Levy stumbles and falls, or fumbles the ball, and Sullivan is able to recover it or make a tackle? Then everyone would be criticizing Suh for "giving up on the play," and not making a block there.

Sullivan clearly thought he still had a shot to make a play, otherwise he would not have been running after the ball carrier.

I think Suh was trying to hit him in the waist but misjudged the block, and I've seen replays that I feel vindicate my opinion. It was simply unfortunate that Suh went too low.

I think you can criticize Suh for going too low (making the block illegal), however I think it is foolish to criticize him for attempting to make a block there.

Never give up on a play by just assuming that an outcome is a given. That's football 101.

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Now let's take the "kick" on Schaub...

Do I think Suh intentionally tried to kick Schaub in the balls? Absolutely not.

Do I think Suh tried to swing his leg into Schaub to disrupt his throwing motion? Possibly, maybe even probably.

Do I think Suh's leg hitting Schaub was an accident? Maybe. I think he might have tried to disrupt his throwing motion with the leg, but he certainly wasn't trying to sack tap Schaub. It very well could have been a complete accident.

I think that is an entirely reasonable stance and most likely describes what happened.

Then I watch ESPN.

Those douche bags just straight up say, "Suh intentionally kicked Schaub where the sun don't shine to injure him," with total impunity. I come away from that stuff completely disgusted in their commentary.

Suh has been fined for several legal hits (Cutler, grabbing Marion Barber's dreads), and for one totally incidental play (the kick) because of these media hacks.

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In my opinion, Suh is an extremely aggressive player who plays with reckless abandon. This has lead to a few unfortunate incidents in the past, but I don't think he goes out there with the intent to maim or harm his opponents.

The only truly egregious act he committed was the stomp, which was in response to dirty tactics used by the Packers' offensive line against him. You can go through the video on Youtube. They dove at his knees several times, a few after the plays were done, untied his shoelaces, held him down on the ground, etc....

The stomp was still inexcusable, but the idea that it was totally unprompted, or that it occurred in a vacuum, is ridiculous.

Suh's goal is to make the opposing quarterback's life miserable, which in today's NFL is frowned upon.

It's interesting that when Suh first entered the league his play was viewed by ESPN analysts as "aggressive," "nasty," and "hard-nosed." Suh had that "old school mentality," of "getting after it on every play," and "punishing" his opponents. He plays "angry," with "fire."

All of those adjectives were used in a positive light to reflect the kind of throwback player Suh is, but suddenly the whole of ESPN took an about face. Using a lot of the same sorts of descriptors and sayings, only those with a negative connotation. Suh is "dirty," "nasty," and "malicious." He plays with the "intent to injure" (instead of "punish"), with "unbridled rage," and is "totally out of control."

Funny how that works, isn't it?

The bottom line is that Suh was called for a number of penalties over the course of his first two seasons and corrected that behavior in his third season, but it's too late though, because the ESPN narrative has been created.

Suh is dirty and everything he does needs to be examined and re-examined through that already established "fact."

No matter the mental gymnastics or "seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" one must jump through to get there.

For future reference, statements in the mold of "Anyone who (does X) is no different than all of the people who (did Y)" assuming X does not equal Y. Raiola's and Suh's and Gholston's actions are all very different from each other it's not even funny.

Back in 2011 when M played Nebraska, Raiola and Suh stood on the sidelines at about the 25 yard line. From my seats in Section 3, I could hear him get into it with a maize and blue fan. I feel bad for the people who had kids nearby. Suh just chuckled but didn't chime in at all.

Not saying the Michigan fan was right to talk smack back to him, but is it really smart to curse out fans in the state you have played your whole NFL career in? Not that was a lot before, but I lost any respect for Raiola that day. He's trash.

Stadium when I didn't cringe at something a fan was yelling at a player or players.

I wonder how Raiola knew the kid's mother was dead. My mother is dead, but I never wore a sign on my head announcing that fact to random football players. I suppose it is possible that Raiola made a comment using the word mother and the band member is using his dead mother to troll for additional sympathy.

I'm not offering an excuse for his actions, but there is bad blood between Nebraska fans & Wisconsin fans. Some of the Husker faithful came back with tales of abysmal treatment in Madison on their first trip up after joining the Big Ten.

The Wisconsin fan base is garbage. Michigan State has gotten the most crap around here because of our hiatus with Wisconsin, but they're pretty much on par with MSU. Their rivalry of late is a perfect match.