Just got accepted I'm hoping to practice Public Interest law in SF--would it be a good decision to go to Hastings? I've gotten into a couple other schools and am still waiting on a lot, but I live in SF now and I would love to stay. I have ties to the SF market but I'm concerned about the employment prospects.

cbarlow1016 wrote:Just got accepted I'm hoping to practice Public Interest law in SF--would it be a good decision to go to Hastings? I've gotten into a couple other schools and am still waiting on a lot, but I live in SF now and I would love to stay. I have ties to the SF market but I'm concerned about the employment prospects.

Congratulations!

I'm a current 2L. As you can probably see if you've read upthread, no one is going to tell you that the employment prospects at UC Hastings are rosey, so if you're concerned about that...well you should be.

It sounds like you're interested in Public Interest law, have you considered what that will mean in terms of financing law school? Are you okay going for tuition forgiveness and/or income based repayment? Or would you want to do biglaw for a few years first to pay down the debt?

If you're okay going for IBR, then Hastings might be something for you to consider. However, if you want to pay down the loans the old fashioned way, the 10.9% biglaw placement prospects at Hastings means that it might not be good for you. (Of course, if you can pay for law school without taking on debt at all, this isn't a real consideration).

As some of the other posters here have pointed out, you might also want to think about what Public Interest Law will mean in terms of stress levels at graduation. Are you willing to accept graduating without a firm offer of employment in hand? Are you prepared to finance your own bar studies?

I want to be clear: I love Hastings, I'm really glad I went, and so far I'm very happy with everything the school has done for me. However, you should only go to Hastings with "both eyes open," as it were, and there are very real concerns here. Hastings has a great alumni network, and puts a lot of people into great law firm positions. But it also produces a lot of completely unemployed graduates. There's definitely opportunity, but there's also a risk of life-long debt that's nearly impossible to service.

cbarlow1016 wrote:Just got accepted I'm hoping to practice Public Interest law in SF--would it be a good decision to go to Hastings? I've gotten into a couple other schools and am still waiting on a lot, but I live in SF now and I would love to stay. I have ties to the SF market but I'm concerned about the employment prospects.

I agree with everything OneMoreLawHopeful said. I would add:

Hastings has a loan expert come in every semester to talk about loan forgiveness. They have a really great supplemental loan forgiveness plan called PICAP.

The expert says the biggest question you have to ask yourself about loan forgiveness is if you are willing to spend 10 years in public interest. Many attorneys find that they cannot. It's a great program if you're sure you want public interest.

One thing I don't like about Hastings is their limited supply of funding for public interest summer jobs. They do give out grants to some people. But it's basically hitting the lottery. I knew a lot of people who did public interest after 1L and only one received a grant. Most people end up with $4k in summer loans. Other schools are much more generous.

Great, thanks so much to both of you! I'm definitely willing to spend 10 years in public interest. I understand that I'll be accepting a significantly lower salary but it's worth it to me. I've worked for the DOJ and several nonprofits in SF as well, so I'm hoping that'll help me land a job. But just wondering--how difficult is PI work to get right out of graduation from classmates' experiences?

thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

This is a weird reputation and I have no idea how it started. It is competitive as any school, but everyone has friends of course and people get along with each other well. I like everyone I've met and have made some good friends. Of course you can make a study group and collaborate with people.

thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

This is a weird reputation and I have no idea how it started. It is competitive as any school, but everyone has friends of course and people get along with each other well. I like everyone I've met and have made some good friends. Of course you can make a study group and collaborate with people.

thanks, good to know. i've visited a few times and heard that. but it seems like most people are super friendly. anyways, i'm going to the ASD/alumni reception, but if anyone would like to meet (I live in SF) i'd really appreciate it.

cbarlow1016 wrote:thanks, good to know. i've visited a few times and heard that. but it seems like most people are super friendly. anyways, i'm going to the ASD/alumni reception, but if anyone would like to meet (I live in SF) i'd really appreciate it.

thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

This is a weird reputation and I have no idea how it started. It is competitive as any school, but everyone has friends of course and people get along with each other well. I like everyone I've met and have made some good friends. Of course you can make a study group and collaborate with people.

Hastings is just like any other school regarding competitiveness. I've never heard of anyone tearing out pages from books, stealing laptops, etc...

If you want to be in a study group it's really easy to do. I will warn you: Be careful who you study with. Some people use study groups to study. Others just use it 90% to gossip and go over pointless things you won't be tested on. I only used study groups right before miderms and finals and we focused exclusively on work. They can be very helpful but also incredibly inefficient. Depends on how you used them.

cbarlow1016 wrote:thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

That's a good attitude to have. You can't control your grades, but you can control how much socializing you do. In my section there seemed to be a correlation between how social people were and what grades they got. The people who did the best were the people who one would regularly see partying/chatting. The gunners also tended to invite people to join their study groups.

I think its fair to say based upon our "Shark Tank" reputation that we're the most competitive law school in the nation (world?), but the competition is a friendly/fun one.

My advice for meeting people: * Before accepting Hastings' admissions offer negotiate a promise from them that you will not be placed in a Thursday LWR section. Every two weeks on Thursday from 4pm-6pm is Beer on the Beach, the school's primary socializing event. Go to it and chat with your sectionmates.

* Join one of the evening sports in the Tower basement - basketball, soccer, or yoga.

* Attend as many different club social outings as you can. Remember, you don't need to be Black to join the Black student union.

* Whenever you have a ton of homework readings or paper writing to do, and someone asks you to go hang out with them, go hang out with them. You can always catch up on your work later, and one of the main things you're supposed to be learning in law school is to read/write quickly anyway.

* If you have a lot of pre-law school friends in the Bay Area, keep socializing with them, but make sure that you are not missing opportunities to hang out with your classmates. If you go out with pre-law school friends on a regular basis, be sure to invite classmates along with you.

* Live in the Tower. Everyone who doesn't live here seems to regret it. You run into friends whenever you leave your room.

cbarlow1016 wrote:thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

That's a good attitude to have. You can't control your grades, but you can control how much socializing you do. In my section there seemed to be a correlation between how social people were and what grades they got. The people who did the best were the people who one would regularly see partying/chatting. The gunners also tended to invite people to join their study groups.

I think its fair to say based upon our "Shark Tank" reputation that we're the most competitive law school in the nation (world?), but the competition is a friendly/fun one.

My advice for meeting people: * Before accepting Hastings' admissions offer negotiate a promise from them that you will not be placed in a Thursday LWR section. Every two weeks on Thursday from 4pm-6pm is Beer on the Beach, the school's primary socializing event. Go to it and chat with your sectionmates.

* Join one of the evening sports in the Tower basement - basketball, soccer, or yoga.

* Attend as many different club social outings as you can. Remember, you don't need to be Black to join the Black student union.

* Whenever you have a ton of homework readings or paper writing to do, and someone asks you to go hang out with them, go hang out with them. You can always catch up on your work later, and one of the main things you're supposed to be learning in law school is to read/write quickly anyway.

* If you have a lot of pre-law school friends in the Bay Area, keep socializing with them, but make sure that you are not missing opportunities to hang out with your classmates. If you go out with pre-law school friends on a regular basis, be sure to invite classmates along with you.

* Live in the Tower. Everyone who doesn't live here seems to regret it. You run into friends whenever you leave your room.

After reading the first paragraph I had no idea what you were talking about. Then it became progressively funnier.

cbarlow1016 wrote:thanks! definitely will! also, i've heard hastings tends to be uber-competitive with a ton of gunners. obviously i want to do well, but i also want to make friends/join study groups/experience an (at least semi-) collaborative atmosphere. just curious as to what current students feel about this.

That's a good attitude to have. You can't control your grades, but you can control how much socializing you do. In my section there seemed to be a correlation between how social people were and what grades they got. The people who did the best were the people who one would regularly see partying/chatting. The gunners also tended to invite people to join their study groups.

I think its fair to say based upon our "Shark Tank" reputation that we're the most competitive law school in the nation (world?), but the competition is a friendly/fun one.

My advice for meeting people: * Before accepting Hastings' admissions offer negotiate a promise from them that you will not be placed in a Thursday LWR section. Every two weeks on Thursday from 4pm-6pm is Beer on the Beach, the school's primary socializing event. Go to it and chat with your sectionmates.

* Join one of the evening sports in the Tower basement - basketball, soccer, or yoga.

* Attend as many different club social outings as you can. Remember, you don't need to be Black to join the Black student union.

* Whenever you have a ton of homework readings or paper writing to do, and someone asks you to go hang out with them, go hang out with them. You can always catch up on your work later, and one of the main things you're supposed to be learning in law school is to read/write quickly anyway.

* If you have a lot of pre-law school friends in the Bay Area, keep socializing with them, but make sure that you are not missing opportunities to hang out with your classmates. If you go out with pre-law school friends on a regular basis, be sure to invite classmates along with you.

* Live in the Tower. Everyone who doesn't live here seems to regret it. You run into friends whenever you leave your room.

That was unnecessary. I intend to work my ass off in school, I was just curious about student life as well...

cbarlow1016 wrote:That was unnecessary. I intend to work my ass off in school, I was just curious about student life as well...

I wasn't being sarcastic, though in hindsight I see how my words could be interpreted that way. Gauged in more academic terms, one needs to make sure that one is not just working hard, but is also working smart. Part of working smart entails having a good social life.

DildaMan wrote:Santa Clara seems to be placing IP oriented students just as well, if not better, than Hastings does.

i think IP oriented students are a different animal, though. they'll typically have better placement regardless of school.

I'm actually very interested in IP and am debating this exact decision. I'm still waiting on any scholarship offer from Hastings (unless that was supposed to come with admission in which case, guess I miss out there) and am potentially up for a fellowship at Santa Clara.

Take the money and go to SCU? Or live in/closer to the greatest city ever and go to a higher ranked school? Both have strong IP programs but I'm specifically interested in the Health Law Consortium at Hastings that partners with UCSF. Also the Biosciences Clinic.

I am really struggling with this debate and obviously it's still a bit early but any insights could help... I really want to choose Hastings over Santa Clara but if the opps are better then it's hard to justify.

Valera wrote:I'm actually very interested in IP and am debating this exact decision. I'm still waiting on any scholarship offer from Hastings (unless that was supposed to come with admission in which case, guess I miss out there) and am potentially up for a fellowship at Santa Clara.

Take the money and go to SCU? Or live in/closer to the greatest city ever and go to a higher ranked school? Both have strong IP programs but I'm specifically interested in the Health Law Consortium at Hastings that partners with UCSF. Also the Biosciences Clinic.

I am really struggling with this debate and obviously it's still a bit early but any insights could help... I really want to choose Hastings over Santa Clara but if the opps are better then it's hard to justify.

Thanks for answering questions!!

Hi Valera.

Comparing these schools is going to be tough. When examining full-time long-term employment, Hastings is slightly better, but the difference is so small that it's hardly worth basing your decision on.

Since you said you're looking for reasons to choose Hastings, I'll try and help you out.

First, even if you're interested in IP, you should consider what kind of IP you want to do. I know a good number of people who ended up in the IP litigation group at biglaw firms through normal OCI at Hastings. Some biglaw firms do recruit separately for IP, but many don't. So, even if there is a benefit for IP students at Santa Clara, it's going to be related to IP boutiques as opposed to biglaw firms.

Second, I don't know where you're from, but I have a difficult time believing that spending 3 years in Santa Clara could possibly be more fun than spending 3 years in San Francisco. Any concerns about cost differences would probably be cancelled out by having to own and maintain a car in Santa Clara, whereas you can easily get by without one in San Francisco.

Third, Hastings is a bigger school, so there are probably more options in terms of extra-curricular opportunities. You probably want to join some groups for fun/social life, and those groups are limited at smaller schools. I am personally super happy that I chose Hastings, and it's almost entirely because of my experience with extra curriculars.

Finally, I would argue that if you compare the responses of the two schools to the declining legal market, Hastings comes out ahead. Hasting's biggest move was to publicly announce that they were shrinking the school by 1/5th. By comparison, Santa Clara decided that their response would be to manipulate their numbers and make pretend 1/6th of their graduating class was "not seeking employment" in order to inflate their stats (source: http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... yment.html ).

This doesn't mean the employment situation is actually better at Hastings, but all other things be equal, I'd rather be at the school that tells me the truth and tries to respond responsibly to the shrinking employment market.

DildaMan wrote:Santa Clara seems to be placing IP oriented students just as well, if not better, than Hastings does.

i think IP oriented students are a different animal, though. they'll typically have better placement regardless of school.

I'm actually very interested in IP and am debating this exact decision. I'm still waiting on any scholarship offer from Hastings (unless that was supposed to come with admission in which case, guess I miss out there) and am potentially up for a fellowship at Santa Clara.

Take the money and go to SCU? Or live in/closer to the greatest city ever and go to a higher ranked school? Both have strong IP programs but I'm specifically interested in the Health Law Consortium at Hastings that partners with UCSF. Also the Biosciences Clinic.

I am really struggling with this debate and obviously it's still a bit early but any insights could help... I really want to choose Hastings over Santa Clara but if the opps are better then it's hard to justify.

Thanks for answering questions!!

Have you talked with Hastings' Financial Aid department? I would first try to negotiate for a larger scholarship with Santa Clara. Then bring that new offer to Hastings' attention (and all significant acceptances). If SC won't give you any more, bring the $20k offer to Hastings' attention and see what they will give you.

My guess, not much ($5-10k per year). Hastings is notorious for being stingy with financial aid. I know people who did amazing after 1L and received almost no additional scholarship money. I came right out and said "I want to stay but I need more money." They told me good luck with my new school.

With all of that said, I LOVED HASTINGS! It's a great place to live and go to school. The professors and staff are wonderful. If Hastings is only marginally more expensive than Santa Clara then you should choose Hastings!

DildaMan wrote:Santa Clara seems to be placing IP oriented students just as well, if not better, than Hastings does.

i think IP oriented students are a different animal, though. they'll typically have better placement regardless of school.

I'm actually very interested in IP and am debating this exact decision. I'm still waiting on any scholarship offer from Hastings (unless that was supposed to come with admission in which case, guess I miss out there) and am potentially up for a fellowship at Santa Clara.

Take the money and go to SCU? Or live in/closer to the greatest city ever and go to a higher ranked school? Both have strong IP programs but I'm specifically interested in the Health Law Consortium at Hastings that partners with UCSF. Also the Biosciences Clinic.

I am really struggling with this debate and obviously it's still a bit early but any insights could help... I really want to choose Hastings over Santa Clara but if the opps are better then it's hard to justify.

Thanks for answering questions!!

Have you talked with Hastings' Financial Aid department? I would first try to negotiate for a larger scholarship with Santa Clara. Then bring that new offer to Hastings' attention (and all significant acceptances). If SC won't give you any more, bring the $20k offer to Hastings' attention and see what they will give you.

My guess, not much ($5-10k per year). Hastings is notorious for being stingy with financial aid. I know people who did amazing after 1L and received almost no additional scholarship money. I came right out and said "I want to stay but I need more money." They told me good luck with my new school.

With all of that said, I LOVED HASTINGS! It's a great place to live and go to school. The professors and staff are wonderful. If Hastings is only marginally more expensive than Santa Clara then you should choose Hastings!

P.S. You were accepted to UCLA? Why not go to school there?

I will definitely touch base with the Financial Aid office about matching scholarships (though I'm not sure if Santa Clara is considered in the same realm as Hastings as far as matching goes...). I find out soon if I get to interview for a Fellowship at Santa Clara = full ride. So that's an interesting twist.

I went to UCLA undergrad, do not like LA. Four years there was enough. I'm a NorCal gal through and through. More importantly though, I want to go into something related to science or tech after. From what I understand UCLA's IP program is more tied in to copyright/media blah blah Hollywood. I'm not really sure what that means though.

But really, LA was just not for me and without any scholarship I am hard pressed to spend three more years there.

I grew up in Cupertino, so know the Bay Area well. I don't mind Santa Clara, though I think I prefer living closer to the city.

Valera wrote:I will definitely touch base with the Financial Aid office about matching scholarships (though I'm not sure if Santa Clara is considered in the same realm as Hastings as far as matching goes...). I find out soon if I get to interview for a Fellowship at Santa Clara = full ride. So that's an interesting twist.

I went to UCLA undergrad, do not like LA. Four years there was enough. I'm a NorCal gal through and through. More importantly though, I want to go into something related to science or tech after. From what I understand UCLA's IP program is more tied in to copyright/media blah blah Hollywood. I'm not really sure what that means though.

But really, LA was just not for me and without any scholarship I am hard pressed to spend three more years there.

I grew up in Cupertino, so know the Bay Area well. I don't mind Santa Clara, though I think I prefer living closer to the city.

You guys gave me great things to think about and I appreciate it!

How funny. I graduated UCLA bioengineering in 2008, and I'm from Cupertino (MVHS) as well.