September 3, 2009

Love to judge Ashley Dupre, the prostitute who did business with Eliot Spitzer.

Let me say this - most girls, to varying degrees of course, want to be pampered and have nice shoes, designer handbags and gorgeous clothes. I know many women who target guys with money and use them to get these things. They toy with them, flirt, go on dates, have sex and then drop hints about that new dress at the store down the street or being short on rent money – and the guys deliver it. This is a dishonest relationship. I see this all over New York City. Some women aren’t as vindictive, but still dive into relationships with wealthy guys who they don’t love or even find attractive, but they stay in it because they have a nice home, a car and spending money – they would rather stay in an unfulfilling or loveless relationship than lose that security. This, too, is a dishonest relationship.

You, ladies, you are whores too.

I see this type all over the suburbs of New Jersey with the housewives who are strung out on mood stabilizers or the couples who put all their attention on their children so they don’t have to deal with their own issues. What about going to those sugar daddy websites? Is that legal? Should it be? Is what I did any more dishonest? Get real and get over yourself.

Yeah, get over yourselves, ladies. Judge me? I judge you!

You’d be shocked at some of the messes I’ve gotten myself into....and, more importantly, how I got out of them. I have so much more to say, and I will – but it’s time for Yoga class! Om Shanti!

One cruel thing about fame is that Ms Dupre actually can't judge "them" because she has no clue who "they" really are, while "they" know exactly who she is. I've never understood that about celebrities-all the whining about how unfair all the negative attention can be-get over it!

I read one comment about this that suggested that prostitutes are whores (duh) and that is the only way to be a whore... to be paid for it.

That's not the definition of whore I grew up with... though I suppose there is a difference of degree between slut and whore.

But REALLY the concept of marriage as prostitution (selling sex for security) is not at all NEW, and the suggestion that women who pursue situations where they can be *kept* are just as much prostitutes as the chick with the pimp on the corner is hardly controversial.

But I suppose that in these days of pretending hook-ups are what everyone does there are a whole lot of women (and man-sluts) telling themselves that *they* are different from what those "bad" words were for.

There was a time in my life when I was friendly with several ladies like Ms. Dupre. No, not for that reason, just from the random chance of being neighbors and having a career with similarly non-9-to-5 hours. Dupre's attitude was common among them, and frankly I didn't and don't think it's so wrong.

The truth is, women like this do encounter a lot of judgment from most people. We can argue about whether those judgments are correct or not, but the complaint is that the judgment indeed often seems to be a one-way street, and I really do think that's unfair.

And honestly, if I compared the ladies of the evening I have known to, say, the white-collar-type women I've worked with over the years, it is my judgment that the Dupres of the world compare favorably in terms of non-sexual morals -- honesty, trustworthiness, compassion, courage, independence and whatnot. IMHO.

The rest of what she wrote seems plausibly true too, though I certainly can't say for sure.

The problem is that a lot of people think it's easy and safe to judge certain people without blowback, no pun intended.

Many feminists are very pro-sex work, but I used to work with one who was very anti, the type who simply felt she was above such people and could safely look down on them. She ended up dating and marrying our supervisor and getting the best schedule and assignments despite the least seniority. Then they had a kid and she never came back to the workplace. True story, classic example.

And what of her other client? Congressman Mike Arcuri is still Congressman Mike Arcuri, the man who won't admit that he got caught up in the same thing as Elliot Spitzer, and who apparently won't have to admit it either.

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Your simplifications of what she said are a little too simplistic, Ann. She was more balanced and reasonable in her piece than you made her seem, although she was obviously angry too and you captured that.

But I have to say that, with this post of yours, it is extremely difficult to tell whether you are linking out of approval or out of disapproval. Q: Is it always one or the other-- do you ever link out of sheer neutrality?

Aren't a lot of johns lonely married guys looking for another woman to talk to, as well as for sex? Those blabbing hubbies are probably the eyes that the hooker uses to "see" the Jersey housewives. And what better way to get a good look at them than from the guys who live with them?

Aren't a lot of johns lonely married guys looking for another woman to talk to, as well as for sex? Those blabbing hubbies are probably the eyes that the hooker uses to "see" the Jersey housewives. And what better way to get a good look at them than from the guys who live with them?

That's probably it. I buy that more than Ashley growing up in the suburbs and seeing neighborhood women taking downers in front of her.

Of course, the hubbies are telling the prostitute the unvarnished, objective truth about their wives. Uh huh. No self-justification there. And the wives who are married to men who would go to a prostitute and would risk bringing home an STD have NO reason not to be charming and happy all the time.

Is there such a thing as community sanctioned and approved "marriage" that makes a sexual relationship into an honest and safe place to raise children and be loyal for life? If so, then that possibility is what Judges everone who does not hold out for one. This may be why "Marriage" is under attack. Bitterness and sour grapes like this are all that compromisers have left. Than there is Mark Sandford's foolish love in all the wrong places problem too. Bottom line is: when you find a good man or a good woman. Marry them and hold on tight.

There is still a big difference between an opportunistic marriage and prostitution. Sorry. But I can't disagree with Spitzer's happiness consultant that there is definitely hypocrisy in those who judge.

To be fair, it can go the other way too (Cougar sightings definitely up!).

And sometimes we are too quick to judge. Yes some relationships on quick study seem superficial. We all notice the husband on his second marriage maried to a younger woman. But we should not judge too quickly. For example, Fred and Jeri seem to be a real couple and definitely compatable with each other. Jeri was passed over as just a trophy wife, but it quickly became apparent she was a lot more than just that.

@J.R.: "it is extremely difficult to tell whether you are linking out of approval or out of disapproval. Q: Is it always one or the other-- do you ever link out of sheer neutrality?"

I would say that Ann does this more often than not. She slips into professor mode and wants to start a discussion. I blame comments. Before she enabled comments, I think she revealed more of her own thinking and analysis. But hey, I'm still here so I must think it works both ways.

"But REALLY the concept of marriage as prostitution (selling sex for security) is not at all NEW, and the suggestion that women who pursue situations where they can be *kept* are just as much prostitutes as the chick with the pimp on the corner is hardly controversial".

There are two problems with this: 1. One cannot ever know if any particular marriage started off in such a mercenary fashion. He may be old, ugly and rich and she young and beautiful, but they might just be in-love. I don't know any people like this btw. Everyone in our social circle are married to people of roughly equal looks and earning potential.2. Even if a marriage was originally based on security and comfort in exchange for sex, that doesn't mean it will stay that way. People who spend time together usually become close via shared experiences and adversity. So it may start as a pathetic and sad arrangement but it can grow into a true marriage based upon love and trust. This is highly unlikely in the prostitute/john model--it can never evolve beyond sad and pathetic.

I believe that all women (and probably all men) trade parts of themselves for security at some points in their lives.

Exactly Florida

All relationships are a give and take.

Maybe some women do stay in a less than satisfying relationship trading sex for security. So what?

Many men do the same trading free housework, sex, home cooked dinners for security and home.

This woman reminds me of the blind wise men and the elephant in the old parable. She is only able to touch the ass end of the elephant so she think that represents the entire animal.

Marriage is complicated and people are complicated. You may start out in a marriage of convenience and turn it into a loving relationship. More often people start out in a wild passionate lust/love and it turns into hell on earth or just plain boredom.

vw: WADDLI what you do if you take the big thigh advice too much to heart.

At the fundamental base a relationship is measured by the honesty allowed and practised between the two. The Whore label is one result of a relationship based on lies told and pretended to be believed. Of course imperfect people attempt marriages, and some never get to the honesty and self revelation between them needed to complete it. For instance Spitzer and Sandford both are struggling with being truthfull and with being married, not to mention John Edwards olympic gold medal lying skills. Maybe a rule is that used car salesmen and politicians cannot function as truth tellers, and many of their wives will have a lot of grief coming.

I see some people in this thread who appear to think that Dupre has no right to make comments about other women -- because what does she know, the ignorant little whore -- but feel perfectly justified in making assumptions about her experiences, insights, or lack of them.

Ashley Dupre isn't calling me a whore, for these reasons:1. I have only ever had sex with people I wanted to have sex with. Not referred clients from the pimp.2. The only remuneration from sex I've ever got was love and a smile.And that's all I ever wanted. No cash changed hands.

And here's the truth about prostitution:

Prostitutes aren't paid for sex.

They are paid to GO AWAY afterwards.

Think about it.

That's the difference Ashley. You are supposed to go away. The housewives aren't.