one of our parts department tried to order some standard metal shovels, and were told they were banned.. Why i hear you say... Apparently sparks from the shovels may cause a fire.

Hmmm - having done my risk assessments and in particular under DSEAR, i didn't include the use of plastic shovels as being a control measure, perhaps on reflection I should have done! I guess there is an extremely remote possibility that this could happen but not one I considered. Funnily enough I asked for some evidence of research etc and guess what I'm still waiting!

Obviously this company don't adopt the sensible approach.. Just wondered if anyone else had heard anything as daft.

P.s one of my clients were also told they couldn't stand on a ladder for more than 15 minutes due to DVT - sometimes I cringe at other people who are in our profession!!!
_________________Group Compliance Manager | ADR Accident Repair Centres Ltd

C.JermanExecutive Committee

Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

Posted:
Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:40 pm
In an explosive atmosphere, steel on metal foil will cause a spark and an explosion. But unless you're repairing cars in an abandoned coal mine (C'mon Scooby there's work to be done) I find it hard to see where the problem is.

Julie, I share you misgivings about 'those' in our profession. I post on the IOSH forums and I cannot believe the responses that some give."How do I get my Directors to take interest?" response - "Have an accident; that always works"

The other standard response to any question is "Have you risk assessed it?" I responded by saying "Don't risk assess the blindingly obvious - fix it". Oh dear, I knew there'd be an outbreak of saddo postings after that one.

It has to be the function of SOHSA to save people from these ridiculous hijackings of simple legislation - oh, just found another. The use of escalators is covered by the Work At Height Regs!!!

AArrrgggghhhh!

Chris
_________________Trying to bring a sense of proportion to all of this.

Thanks Chris, it really irritates me and no wonder health and safety professionals get bad press when you have doilums like these people. I think we should have an amnesty and get people to hand themselves in!!!
_________________Group Compliance Manager | ADR Accident Repair Centres Ltd

In fairness, I blame the fact that 'safety school' hasn't moved on. I bet that they're still teaching V steps to nothing useful.

V Steps was useles before it went to print. I know - I was there! I showed the HSE a beter alternative - which they liked, but it wasn't their call they said???

OK it's fine for a small business, but for anyone who needs to play the bigger game and prioritise as we do, it's only half the story. We could start the thread - "What's the pont of risk assessment then?' But that's what I wanted to cover in one of the suggested workshops.

By the way. I had today down as a day at BG for working on the annual conference. I couldn't find any details anywhere conforming it. I PM'd Phil but didn't get a response - whas it today?

C
_________________Trying to bring a sense of proportion to all of this.

P.MarshSite Admin

Joined: Jul 25, 2008
Posts: 230
Location: Barnsley, South Yorkshire

Posted:
Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:05 pm
Good Afternoon All, good to see so many of us on here (especially at the same time!)

Chris - I'm a little concerned about your comment regarding PM'ing me about today's meeting as I haven't received anything. Could you check your "Sent Items" and "Outbox" to see if this has definately sent? My apologies for this Chris - I would have been happy to pass details across.
_________________Hon. Assistant Secretary and Webmaster | www.sohsa.org.uk

C.JermanExecutive Committee

Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

Posted:
Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:25 pm
Nothing there Phil. I actually sent 3. One to aplogise for sending 1st one twice. I also remarked that there was no confirmation that I'd posted the PM. It didn't return you to the main menu. I'll ping you one now as a test, hang one 3,2,1..
_________________Trying to bring a sense of proportion to all of this.

Posted:
Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:08 pm
Hi Chris
So sorry that HSE did not take on board your alternative but I would question the reply you state was given which I have copied. ( V Steps was useles before it went to print. I know - I was there! I showed the HSE a beter alternative - which they liked, but it wasn't their call they said??? ). It doesn't sound like the professional response one would normally get.
We have to remember that we are looking at H&S in a smaller box than what is happening nationally and, internationally. I also feel at times that I could make suggestions on improvements. Unfortunately it is not that easy. Normally changes are made with consultation so if you feel, your alternative was better, maybe it may not have been better for all given the range of sectors. Anyway, if its so good, why not share it on this website.
With reference to escalators. They are used for moving and lifting goods, more impotantly, people. We certainly do not want them to fail (quickly) to safety. (To the ground). So they are covered by multi sets of legislation and including those whereby there may be a risk of falls from the top whilst undertaking maintenance and repair. lets face it, there are some woppers such as those on the underground.
Rather than grumble in a corner or, to our peers, lets share positive messages rather than perpetuate the negative.
Diane Etchell
_________________Health & Safety | Health & Safety Executive

C.JermanExecutive Committee

Joined: Mar 11, 2008
Posts: 148
Location: Chesterfield, Derbyshire

Posted:
Tue Aug 07, 2007 1:56 pm
Agreed Diane, but I've been saying these things for 20 years or more. The V Steps stuff is old news. I was part of the 'working party' if you like back in '92 when the UK was trying to work out what the heck a risk assessment actually was. I presented to 200 safety pros and the HSE at a national conference. Then V Steps came out. I have been working recently with the HSE group in London, looking at better assessment for small retailers. Head, wall, banging and against come to mind. This is not a reflection on the excellent work done by you and your colleagues in the field. I just feel that there are those in the HSE who are not as experienced as we are in deciding what actually works. Trust me, I've never been one to snipe from the shadows, Di. You surely know me better than that.

As to your thoughts that I should share this, err I have been. I was the lead trainer for the IOSH GRA course for 4 years and trained thousands of people across the world. Hardly a secret that there's an alternative to V steps that actually works y'know.

The thread related to the USE of escalators only, Diane. I fail to see how WAH is relevant to Mrs Smith and her shopping. Now working in an atrium, ahh well, as you quite rightly say, WAH 05. But USING an escalator - sorry, not buying that one.

Lovverly to hear from you Di. I feel better already.

Now, isn't that a bit more lively! Come on folks, pitch in.

Chris
_________________Trying to bring a sense of proportion to all of this.

D.EtchellExecutive Committee

Joined: Jan 01, 2007
Posts: 21
Location: South Yorkshire

Posted:
Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:35 pm
Oh Chris, you make me feel so old with my 30 odd years in the field. I also must have alchzeimers as I don't recall the lady you refer to either nor can I find reference to the use of escalators in the Statutory Instrument. You must have additional information that I am not privvy to.
_________________Health & Safety | Health & Safety Executive

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