I like wargames, but tend to prefer smaller battles, as I am usually overwhelmed by having to control large forces and don't much enjoy micromanaging lots of units. I own BiI and liked playing the Sicily scenario, but was a bit overwhelmed by the others. Would the AOs mitigate this "overwhelmed" feeling to a point that I might enjoy this game, or do you think I should stay away?

I can't comment because I don't have it yet, but the general response may spur me on. I find I'm getting more interested because of the questions and comments I'm seeing - they certainly don't apply to yer typical slugfest. I've tried the other ones except Bf and mefinks this keeps looking better. I've been spending about 65% of my gaming ration on COTA but need to decide on BOA 2 or this one just to take a breather until BFTB. About 30% has been on PzCK (and I'm just trying the mods) and BOB2 . Yes, the other 5%, but I've likely miscalculated down the line, is throwaway! Who knows, both of them?

I'm responding, not because I own the Kharkov game yet, (it is on my top 2 hit list, though) but because, I too tend to be overwhelmed by larger scenarios.

I am however, currently playing a couple of large scenarios, including `Battlefront: Market Garden', and `Across the Dnepr'.

The approach I've taken with these is I treat them like a `work in progress'. In other words, I don't spend an entire evening of free time playing one. Rather, I'll make a turn or two, and then do something else. I have to say, the larger scenarios are very rewarding, and help you learn a lot about the SSG systems, which I think are the best of the hex based type games. I own Korsun/Dnepr, Battles in Normandy and Battlefront.

I do perceive that, at the very least, the new AO system will create a more focused approach to planning and at least to that extent alleviate the feeling of being overwhelmed by a large scenario, and dealing with dozens of units.

I would not say this scenario is large as such, at least not for SSG games. Once you break it down into each HQ's AO its actually more like many small battles on one map. Its no bigger than Battles In Normandy or Battles In Italys stock scenarios. I say go for it...

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"In times of peace, a good general is preparing for war" - Gaius Julius Ceasar

I like wargames, but tend to prefer smaller battles, as I am usually overwhelmed by having to control large forces and don't much enjoy micromanaging lots of units. I own BiI and liked playing the Sicily scenario, but was a bit overwhelmed by the others. Would the AOs mitigate this "overwhelmed" feeling to a point that I might enjoy this game, or do you think I should stay away?

Thanks

As a few posters have mentioned, the Area of Operations system can really help the human player, by providing an overall plan or blueprint for the battle. You know what you have to do, and the forces that you have at your disposal, and that really helps you to focus on the important tactical issues. So although the scenario is definitely bigger than Sicily, I think you'll find it both manageable and enjoyable.

Having played BiItaly, BiNormandy and Korsun, I would say Kharkov is not a huge or complex battle. It's certainly not as complex has Korsun or BiN seemed to me at first.

I was playing Kharkov slowly in the first few turns, not because of complexity, but because I was getting familiar with the new rules and reading parts of the User Guide at the same time. So I would say go for it, and give you a couple of turns to slip into the game and get acquainted with it. Personally speaking, I feel Kharkov is an improvement other the previous Decisive Battles system, so I'm really happy having purchased it.

As mentioned by others, AOs indeed do limit complexity when starting since most formations are restricted at first to a small portion of the front line and can't move very far.

If you feel you might be overwhelmed, perhaps playing Germans for your first game might be better, because the Soviets have quite a lot of units with which to move and attack and that might be more "overwhelming" while the Wehrmacht is on the defensive and can only manage a limited number of counter-attacks at the start. You don't have that many options to think about at first.

I'm very interested in taking the plunge too. I'm getting this or another wargame that I'm also interested in within the next few days. It really does look good and I'm familiar with KP, BII and BIN. I'm been lurking over at the SSG site and I get the impression that a patch is possibly in the works based upon some minor issues with the AO and other stuff (unless I'm completely misreading the signs). There is still just 1 user-designed scenario with AI, but it's supposed to be very good and better than none at all. I heard a while back that the manual would be revised to include documentation on designing scenarios with the AI, and that would be a very good thing.

My concern is if I should wait a couple of months until the next revision, add-on scenarios and any documentation updates. I'd hate to invest time on the 1 main scenario to find that I need to start afresh to appreciate any new features or tweaks. I don't have enough time for PBEM, so I think it's more of an issue.

Nick, minor tweaks will not change the core gameplay or rule set. Whatever they are (minor niggles) they will not stop you having a huge amount of fun with this scenario and the different AO's and mystery viarants, ive played through the scenario twice and havent noticed any of the AO retreat errors that some have had, even then, its hardly a game breaker. The game runs just fine against the AI in its current state. Im having a great time playing the AI for the first time since Battles In Italy. It actually has the ability to kick your arse , which is no mean feat comparing it to some wargames released just lately.

You will not need to start afresh again.

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"In times of peace, a good general is preparing for war" - Gaius Julius Ceasar

I'm very interested in taking the plunge too. I'm getting this or another wargame that I'm also interested in within the next few days. It really does look good and I'm familiar with KP, BII and BIN. I'm been lurking over at the SSG site and I get the impression that a patch is possibly in the works based upon some minor issues with the AO and other stuff (unless I'm completely misreading the signs). There is still just 1 user-designed scenario with AI, but it's supposed to be very good and better than none at all. I heard a while back that the manual would be revised to include documentation on designing scenarios with the AI, and that would be a very good thing.

My concern is if I should wait a couple of months until the next revision, add-on scenarios and any documentation updates. I'd hate to invest time on the 1 main scenario to find that I need to start afresh to appreciate any new features or tweaks. I don't have enough time for PBEM, so I think it's more of an issue.

Regards

On the documentation front, a tutorial explaining the new Area of Operations feature for scenario designers has already been released, and the AI tutorial is in its final stages and will be released soon. The game itself play just fine as it is, so I'm sure you won't regret taking the plunge.

I downloaded the game in a rush of blood impulse a few weeks ago but I dont regret it! I'm glad it's more like BF2 than the older versions. If history is a guide, there will be other scenarios coming soon.

I bought this right after my last message and I'm thoroughly impressed with it. I've been a bit pressed for time this week but I'm finishing up the tutorial and the work "outstanding" keeps running through my head. I can't wait to get into the main course! I skipped Battlefront so I'm catching up on the new features and I can can definitely say that I'll be spending a lot of quallity wargaming time on this one.