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Check out sea to summit dry bags.....as light a stuff sacks, and really waterproof. No need for a sealed molding pannier.

I tried the UltraSil ones and found them a bit too flimsy. They were pretty patched up at the end of a 33 day tour. I since moved to the eVac ones (also from Sea to Summit) and think they will be more suitable while still being quite light (the 20 liter one is 3 ounces).

No trouble with either type so far though we keep the ultrasil in the pannier. I strapped an evac to the rack for the great divide and it survived too. I would not try that with the superlight ultrasil.

Just to clarify a bit. I used the Ultrasil ones from San Diego to Sarasota strapped on top of the rear rack. They lasted the trip, but had quite a few little holes and duct tape patches. They would probably last for another similar length trip, but at some point would have enough patches to weigh as much as the Evac ones. They may have been close to that even after the one tour. I could have probably been a lot more careful with them and they may have held up better, but I think the heavier eVac ones are worth the extra couple ounces.

If using them inside a pannier the ultrasil ones are probably fine as long as you handle them with some care.

I started out touring with Bruce Gordon racks and panniers but after a rainy tour around the 48 states in 2004 I was thoroughly sick of messing with rain covers. So I got Ortlieb panniers and handlebar pack and have used them ever since. They look as good as the day I bought them and have never leaked a drop. I am also a real fan of the very convenient attaching/dismounting system. I don't miss the lack of compartments as all the things I need during the day are right at hand in the handlebar pack and in the clear plastic map holder on top.

The Bruce Gordon racks, by the way, have done fine duty, only coming off the bike once for a paint job.

@dombrosk - thanks - I think I understand, and agree as to the throw away bit. The price does make me cring though.

@staehpj1 - as for the GT54 being overkill is size - Yup. I travel much lighter. But all brands have a range, so there are always alternatives in each type.

@newfydog - Good input. but I will be on road - isn't that much easier on bags (less jaring, running into bushes...)??

@Bike Hermit - I looked at these. A possible, though the rear bags may be a bit big, and the front small.

@litespeed - it's comments like yours that led me to posting this question. You are not alone in your view. Oh, I'd love a set of Gordon's racks, but cant justify them at this time - I'd take a rock and road too!

Ahhh. decisions, decisions - lots of good into, but still looks like nothing that screams at me as to directions. Seems the lack of pockets are a minor annoyance for some, leading them to regular bags, but water is a big anoyance for those going to dry bags. My existing bags only have a surface mesh pocket anyway, and I don't have (but will be getting) a bar bag. Does that mean I should aim at dry bags???

Back in the 80s i rode with Cannondales, the 90s and 2k I rode jandd till I found Arkels for mky "fluff" touring gear as in packin for comfort and carrying too much crap.

For my Surfin 9-Niner I'm building as my next surf board carrying touring pac-coast touring maching I'm gonna go superlight with smallest ortliebs up front carrying tent, bag, woolrich camp blanket with a emergency solar blanket, jetboil with a spork in the bags and a matress rolled with a pad and lightwieght tarp tied down over the rear rack which has the surfboard carrier with surfboard on one side and on the other I'm thinking the square plastic bucket on the other side carrying my wetysuit stuff!

Really like the plastic bucket approach for panniers like the real bikepackers use!!!