Oceanside50 wrote:A half page of dribble. Where's the solution to the problem? Unless farming methods change and the destruction of habitat stopped then the birds will become extinct

Pathetic. Because other factors are going to make these birds extinct sooner or later anyway, we should therefore not worry at all about illegal trapping at all. Do you have any idea how stupid that sounds ? Why stop at illegal bird trapping ? How about let's not bother with or worry about the damage to the environment form illegal dumping of waste in Cyprus by criminals for profit, cause other factors are going to screw the environment anyway. Oh wait a minute we don't worry or bother about that either much do we ?

The solution to any problem is to look at the all the factors that contribute materially to that problem and seek to reduce them all as much as possible. What you do not do, if you are a sane and rational person that is, is say unless we can completely solve the biggest single contributing factor then we should do nothing about any of the other contributing factors.

Cyprus (or more hopefully Cyprus-forum) the place where no excuse is too absurd if its objective is to try and exonerate Cypriots of any blame or culpability for anything they do.

Seems to me there's less real concern for the birds and animals in general and more concern to silence anyone who dares to say Cypriots are no more to blame than anyone else (imagine if I had said Cypriots are less to blame for species extinction than anyone else especially the Br ... ooopss don't say it lest erolzzzzzzzzzz gets hyper again).

Habitat erosion is the single biggest contributor to bird extinction. Second is farming. (Both are linked to expanding human populations). But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant and an excuse to pretend that you are some kind of warrior for little birds that might meet their end at the hands of Cypriots. Because, it's not the 'death of birds' some Brits care about, but it's the fact the naughty subservient Cypriots must be taught a lesson from their colonial masters that matters. Bash Cypriot heads every time they pop up, like moles. If Brits cared about animals any more than anyone else, as pointed out, battery farming would end. Veal rearing would not be expanding. ETC

Nearly 500 species of plant and animal native to England have been wiped out in the past 2,000 years - with most vanishing in the previous two centuries alone.

The roll-call, detailed in a shocking report, includes mammals such as the wildcat and northern right whale, birds such as the great auk and red-backed shrike, and species of butterflies, dragonflies and beetles.Some creatures, including the bear, were hunted to extinction after the Romans invaded, while others, such as the short-haired bumblebee, were killed off by modern farming techniques during the 1990s.

Sparrows, starlings and other common birds are rapidly disappearing – with numbers plummeting by more than a fifth in recent decades.Some 44million breeding birds have been lost from Britain since 1966, and many species are facing a bleak future.

More than two animals and plants a year are becoming extinct in England and hundreds more are severely threatened, a report published today reveals.

Natural England, the government's agency responsible for the countryside, said the biggest national study of threats to biodiversity found nearly 500 species that had died out in England, all but a dozen in the last two centuries.

The Cyprus Dipper (Cinclus cinclus olympicus) was endemic to Cyprus. It was a stream wader in the montane forests of the island. This insectivorous bird was last observed ca. 1950 on Cyprus. It disappeared after deforestation.

(wiki)

Thank you Britain for burning the Paphos forest etc ...

What animals have Cypriots actually been responsible for making extinct? Our endangered species (Mouflon, vulture etc) are identified and protected and have been saved from the sort of mass extinctions observed at the hands of Brits and BIG GAME hunters of the British Empire!

All forms of songbird trappings are illegal in Cyprus. Contrary to what the Brits think about Cypriots, the Cypriots actually CARE about their environment and do NOT go and hunt to extinction any animals! We learnt this valuable lesson thousands of years ago!

It seems Erolz posts are there to prove that Cypriots are less "civilized" than others.

Erolz, I can understand you oppose trapping. But that is no reason for you to be making sweeping generalized statements about Cypriots. It is nowhere near as bad as what occurs in other "more civilized" countries like Japan which is why I told you to go to Japan and save the Whales.

GIG you started with "It does not happen in the sense that it's illegal and not entered into normally - a bit like you can say cock-fighting doesn't happen any more in the UK"

This is just bollocks. It is just not true. Its either determined ignorance or wilful deceit. If you bothered to read the birdlife Cyprus report this would be clear but clearly actually investigating the issue with an open mind is not the objective is it GIG ? The objective is, as ever, to deny there is any problem, or if there is that there is no point in trying to do anything about it or that 'others' are worse or any number of other denials that mean you can avoid the cognitive dissonance of accepting that actually perhaps Cypriots are not prefect in this regard and there are things they could do better.

As for the reality of my concern on this issue and for the record - I have in the past spent several seasons working in the South for birdlife Cyprus specifically on the project of monitoring the extent and year on year increase or decrease in trapping activity. I have also following on from that been involved in bi-communal efforts to extend this monitoring to the North as well. Still easier to believe that my concern is 'fake' an merely a ruse to attack unfairly attack Cypriots, which I also happen to be than deal with that cognitive dissonance.

The FACT is that illegal bird trapping IS widespread in Cyprus today and actually increasing from its low point leading up to EU accession, to a degree that has a real material effect on the viability of a number of endangered species and the only benefit from this destructive behaviour is too a small number of people who like to eat black caps and other small birds and to the profits of organised criminal gangs that control the vast majority of the trapping activities in Cyprus. There would be little on no downside to stopping such activity (unlike say stopping all habitat destruction or all changes in farming practices) and would result in real material improvement in the viability of a number of endangered species. However such would involve Cypriots like you being able to get their heads out their asses long enough to see this and being able to deal with the cognitive dissonance caused by accepting that Cypriots are actually on this specific issue worse than most others countries in Europe, with the possible exception of Malta - which is clearly something beyond you as far as I can see.

Paphitis wrote:It seems Erolz posts are there to prove that Cypriots are less "civilized" than others.

For fucks sake I AM a Cypriot. By birth right, in law and in my heart and soul.

There are reasons why this destructive practice of illegal bird trapping not only continues in Cyprus but is actually growing year on year from the low point leading up to EU accession. One of the biggest reasons is that too many ordinary Cypriots spend so much energy trying to convince themselves and others that, the problem does not exits at all (no more prevalent than cock fighting in the UK is today), or that it is not destructive to endangered species in any case, or if it is others have been worse historically or today and thus we do not need to do anything about it.

Are we really so fucking insecure as Cypriots that we would rather live in denial of the issue than have to face accepting it and trying to do something about it ?

I do remember how depressing posting on this forum was in the past but I did not expect to be reminded of that quite so swiftly on my return

Paphitis wrote:It seems Erolz posts are there to prove that Cypriots are less "civilized" than others.

For fucks sake I AM a Cypriot. By birth right, in law and in my heart and soul.

There are reasons why this destructive practice of illegal bird trapping not only continues in Cyprus but is actually growing year on year from the low point leading up to EU accession. One of the biggest reasons is that too many ordinary Cypriots spend so much energy trying to convince themselves and others that, the problem does not exits at all (no more prevalent than cock fighting in the UK is today), or that it is not destructive to endangered species in any case, or if it is others have been worse historically or today and thus we do not need to do anything about it.

Are we really so fucking insecure as Cypriots that we would rather live in denial of the issue than have to face accepting it and trying to do something about it ?

I do remember how depressing posting on this forum was in the past but I did not expect to be reminded of that quite so swiftly on my return

I agree entirely with your comments.

The fact that endangered species are also killed in other countries does not mean that we Cypriots have to brush this serious environmental issue aside simply by stating that other countries are also guilty.

Its a bit like condoning murder by the fact that murders exist everywhere.

In days gone by in Cyprus one could excuse or justify the killing of birds due to the need to obtain meat nourishment that was scarce, this is no longer the case, those indulging in the pseudo enjoyment of ambelopoulia ought to try ARCHIDIA, they are delicious and nourishing.

For the record, I'm not vegetarian, never have been, I get as much satisfaction eating farmed meat as I get watching the birds, very rarely seen in Cyprus, fly about.

Why is it that some Cypriots react in denial when an unpleasant activity, also illegal, is highlighted.

In order to solve a problem, you must first identify the specific cause. Bashing all Cypriots, or the Cypriot nature, or cultural dissonance, or whatever - does not solve any problems.

Each species is *an individual* - cats need their specific concerns to be met as do birds and bees - each to their own.

Because hunting has caused extinctions in the past (e.g. Dodo), it doesn't mean bird-trapping will cause extinctions in this specific case. It hasn't over thousands of years. For sure, bird-trapping is cruel and I am 100% against it. It's also illegal and I want to see perpetrators severely fined and imprisoned.

But in the case of these birds, depletion of habitat and over-farming are the culprits; so why are you in denial over these concerns?

Why is it only the few Cypriots, along the great chain of events, who are at fault? Yes, deal with them if they are breaking laws put in place to assist the problem; but over-population of this island is my biggest concern (and that's why the frigging Turks have to leave! )

I'm an animal lover. I have been vegetarian for many years in the past. I aren't and haven't been for about 10 Years.

I support one or two animal charities, two on Cyprus and one in Egypt.

I can't get into the debate on the birds, I aren't informed enough.

Seems like that "etc etc" should include most of the things that humans do. Humans on this planet are like that asteroid that killed off the dinosaurs and many other species. The animals that can adapt to the new environment we create will survive ... those that can't will go extinct. Nothing new. Thats how life works. Eventually we will destroy ourselves and then some new species will evolve