Welcome to the Piano World Piano ForumsOver 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

There's a frequent mentioning of IMSLP which offers PDF files (of rather poor quality, but 100% legal and free! I love IMSLP and once upon a time I had some of my scores on it).

Rather infrequently there's the odd question about tablets, and the use of them with piano performance.

Thus my question: If you had access to a PDF files would you:a. Print it?b. Use it in your tablet straight to your piano?c. Check it out for analytical and review reasons and then go and buy the normal score?d. Anything else that might come in mind?

Reason I'm asking should be rather obvious, but none the less I should note that I do NOT have a tablet, nor I enjoy checking out scores in my computer screen: I almost always print out my PDF scores for ease of use... but that's just me. How about the rest, please?

I have a giant library of PDF scores on my tablet, and when I'm considering new pieces to learn, I'll sightread them from my tablet. Or if I want quickly to reference editorial markings on several editions, I have them easily on hand.

But when I decide seriously to work on a piece, I print it, so I can have maximum flexibility with writing on it. After I've studied it extensively and my markings are more or less complete, I'll make a new scan of my working copy back onto my tablet so I have a new PDF with all my fingerings etc. Maybe there's a program out there good enough to allow me all the flexibility and precision I want in writing on my scores without printing anything, but I haven't found it yet, and I don't really want to pay if it's expensive...

I download a lot of stuff form IMSLP. If something seems interesting, I'll print it. If it's something that I could see myself spending a lot of time on, then I'll buy the score (unless it's out of print).

I currently print them, or more often, save them to my desktop for later use (as they're often way beyond my current skill level). I eventually might invest in a big desktop monitor to connect to my laptop for use at the piano for practicing and/or sight-reading like Phillip Sear.

"[The trick to life isn't] just about living forever. The trick is still living with yourself forever."

d) on some eReaders you can download PDF files and view them that way. I do this for analyzing and AFK study but unfortunately the screen is too small to be able to perform from it.

I would like to see some day an eReader solution for sheet music with larger screens possibly in landscape format. It could solve the problem of having to turn pages and the e-ink is easier on the eyes.

Rather infrequently there's the odd question about tablets, and the use of them with piano performance.

And at that point, Hugh Sung usually pops into the thread to talk about Airturn.

My computer monitor is on my music desk. I almost never print out scores, or purchase them either for that matter. I don't perform with scores so there is not much reason to print them or worry about tablet sizes.

I LOVE THAT PLACE (INTERBANG AND UNDERLINED). I download what I need, three-hole punch and put same in a binder (yes, sports fans, a binder). I now have about 12 full to bursting. I then download the tone row using the letters of the alphabet to my Hello Kitty work book and the rest is history (BTW, last August, I landed my Dream Job)...Mwah!!

I have around 35,000 pages printed from various internet sources and maybe ten times that stored as PDF files. I see little reason to purchase music at this point in time(I used to buy music) unless one is a professional where playing anything other than the latest super edition might raise an eyebrow. Much of the music I've printed would be considered as from non standard literature, and much of it is out of print.

If it is sight-reading (I do a lot of sight-reading) I read from my tablet; but if I want to dive deeper into a piece I prefer to print it out. And if I really fall in love with it, I buy the real thing.

I have around 35,000 pages printed from various internet sources and maybe ten times that stored as PDF files. I see little reason to purchase music at this point in time(I used to buy music) unless one is a professional where playing anything other than the latest super edition might raise an eyebrow. Much of the music I've printed would be considered as from non standard literature, and much of it is out of print.

Sorry, but this could mean that:a. You're downloading illegally anything which is not out of copyright.b. Don't care to get anything which is still in copyright.

EDIT: I mean the above as 'EITHER' one could be true, or none... Sorry if it seemed that I'm thinking you're going anything illegal: I don't.

And it does seem extra non supportive of living composers I think!

On what everyone else said it is as I thought it. Pretty much what I do. And I do intend to get a tablet myself, but I do consider it small for performance usage...

Sorry, but this could mean that:a. You're downloading illegally anything which is not out of copyright.

Nikolas, he is not downloading anything illegally. The scores he has access to on IMSLP are supposedly PD in the US. I'm also sure that he makes heavy use of Pianophilia which is very careful about posting scores which are PD. (It is UK based.)

I have a TON of stuff from both websites, but only print them out if I need them for performance, otherwise they reside on my hard drive (which is heavily backed up) in a very highly organized file for quick access.

There is also a fabulous website CDPL.org specializing in PD choral music. With my interest in Anglican choral music, there's lots of fabulous stuff which is most likely unavailable outside of British cathedral libraries.

Sorry, I edited my post. I mean that it could either mean that he's not interested, or if he's interested and yet not buying he must have other ways to find them (which could include contacting the composer, if alive, etc).

Well I can only speak for myself, but there is certainly a fair amount of non-PD music I would love to examine in score, but -forgive me- why pay for it if I'm only interested in having a quick look and not trying to perform it or, worse, give it away to someone else?

That seems decent enough I should think. I have honestly purchased ALL of Messiaen's organ music (and a fair amount of the piano music), but I would just love to see the scores of some of his later, non-keyboard, works. That would be awesome in helping me appreciate a composer I absolutely adore.

Perhaps there isn't much of a solution. Beyond several 'potboilers' of Sorabji, there is simply no way I could approach his larger works without access to a score.

I know the mature operas of Wagner at least as well as anyone here, but I could never have done that without access to the scores. Cheers!

I personally think that contemporary scores, published by big publishers are rather overpriced (and some examples of that are the works of Messiaen, I'm sorry to say. Yes you get a huge amount of music, when you purchase one of his scores most often, but it's also that you don't get to perform everything, and there isn't another available option).

I think that there are ways to preview a score (EMF site has preview of every score available, though a few pages only...), and most importantly the pricing can go down considerable, considering that now we can print digitally (lazer) and thus we no longer have a need to print 1000+ items per score in order to get some decent prices!

Solutions can be found, it's just a matter of being open minded enough and flexible enough!

(And there's always the solution of digital scores, which while in danger of piracy) is still an option. And, personally (again) I hate DRM, but I'm not sure there's another solution to offering PDF files... :-/ Unless 'not caring for piracy' is an option, which for me it isn't...

EDIT: The "why pay for it" comment could be mistakenly taken the wrong way. I'm not taking it the wrong way...

But in the same vein (vain?) one should argue that 'why should one experience the look of a score, if the publishers and composers and copyright owners are not getting paid for it?' It's a double edged sword and no matter how much I like to share (personally once more) it's not viable to do that for free anymore...

Thus my question: If you had access to a PDF file would you:a. Print it?b. Use it in your tablet straight to your piano?c. Check it out for analytical and review reasons and then go and buy the normal score?d. Anything else that might come in mind?

My PDF files are on my computer, reasonably well organised. I print anything I really want to play, then if it's something I'll want to keep playing I buy the score, so I suppose this is your option (c). I don't have a tablet and I can't see how I could possibly read music from one - far too small.

The vast majority of the PDFs I have are of music that is not in print, or if it is, it is very difficult to obtain. The quality is wildly variable (and I'd like to think the ones I've uploaded myself are of pretty good quality, especially if I did the engraving myself). I don't have a tablet, so I print out those things I want to play through, and perhaps actually work on. Often, I'll download a PDF out of curiosity and print just a page to try out.

Of the relatively few PDFs I have of music that is in print, it is usually for comparison against a printed copy of a different edition I already have. I have, very rarely, downloaded a PDF to help decide whether to purchase a score. Actually, that's so rare I can only think of one time that I did it (and yes, I did end up buying the score). I would rather check scores out of my library to help decide whether to purchase, and have done so.

I personally think that contemporary scores, published by big publishers are rather overpriced (and some examples of that are the works of Messiaen, I'm sorry to say. Yes you get a huge amount of music, when you purchase one of his scores most often, but it's also that you don't get to perform everything, and there isn't another available option).

I think that there are ways to preview a score (EMF site has preview of every score available, though a few pages only...), and most importantly the pricing can go down considerable, considering that now we can print digitally (lazer) and thus we no longer have a need to print 1000+ items per score in order to get some decent prices!

Solutions can be found, it's just a matter of being open minded enough and flexible enough!

(And there's always the solution of digital scores, which while in danger of piracy) is still an option. And, personally (again) I hate DRM, but I'm not sure there's another solution to offering PDF files... :-/ Unless 'not caring for piracy' is an option, which for me it isn't...

EDIT: The "why pay for it" comment could be mistakenly taken the wrong way. I'm not taking it the wrong way...

But in the same vein (vain?) one should argue that 'why should one experience the look of a score, if the publishers and composers and copyright owners are not getting paid for it?' It's a double edged sword and no matter how much I like to share (personally once more) it's not viable to do that for free anymore...

At least in the USA, many scores at IMSLP can be sent directly to a one-off printing service for quite reasonable prices, and with various binding options. I haven't tried it yet to test the quality, but am keeping it in mind, in case a good test case comes up. This sort of thing may be the future of music publishing, other than the very high-end products.

I think the battle against piracy has already been lost. The only question remaining is whether there is still a market for "real" publication. I think there may be - but I also think that a composer expecting to actually make money off of new work via publication is just not very realistic anymore (educational stuff may be an exception). Instead of being a source of income, publication may be better understood as a cost of doing business, as a kind of advertising. You make money from commissions and royalties and teaching and guest lecture stints and master classes, not from the sales of your scores. That is, unless you have the kind of critical reputation that means that university libraries feel they absolutely must have your scores in their collections in order to be taken seriously, and they will pay through the nose for them. But how many composers fall into that exalted category? Not too many.

Thing is that most IMSLP scores I got (and actually any other scanned scores I got) were at medium quality at best. Compared to the real thing there isn't a doubt for me that a physical score is still a better option. This is for scanned scores only, btw. The PDF scores that you and I produce can be of excellent quality!

Now, I will agree that for a composer scores should be seen as a form of advertising mostly, and I'm not too sure there's too much money to be made anymore. But still, at the same time, piracy in this business is not too dominant! You should check other industries (for example the computer games industry, that I'm part of): They are devastated by piracy!

For scores there is a very practical approach: It's already classical enough (we ar e talking about classical music) and people have been playing the piano for centuries now. This isn't about to change. Then there's the very fact that it's an active process (rather than the passive process of listening to your ipod). This is the same reason why computer games are winning over films now! And quality plays a vital part, for anyone who is even half serious about playing an instrument: Bad printing, bad binding, bad layout can kill any performance.

So, this is my great assumption: If I set the prices low enough (which is challenging enough, since you guys in the US price all scores ridiculously low and it's impossible for me to match that), will there be enough of an audience to take an interest in quality scores, quality music and quality... composers? A big bet, if you ask me, but very much worth taking as well!

(At the same time, it should be dead obvious that I'm very much looking into contemporary alternatives, such as ebooks for kindle and the ipad, etc). But not for everything right now!

I basically use imslp for all those reasons you stated Nikolas. I'll print it out to read through sometimes, I'll read the PDF documents on my computer or phone while away from the piano to do some mental practice, I'll look up the score for a new piece i heard just so I see what all is really going on, and stuff like that. I use imslp a lot....

Hmmm....seems what I do is rather odd but extremely convenient for me. I have a rather large library of real scores yet I use a digital keyboard and have a large 30 inch computer screen in front of it. So I don't have a convenient place to put the scores (particularly larger book compilations). Thus, I scan them and use a pdf version even of real scores that I own. I find this works much faster and more convenient than using physical scores. Plus, I can make fingering annotations onto my pdfs and recall any of them very quickly.

Another reason that I do this is that my eye-sight isn't so great so I wear computer glasses that go exactly an arm's length. I do have a music stand to the side of my monitor but its a bit further and thus rather hard to read scores from. So pdf's win hands down for me. The 30 inch monitor is very nice as it will show two pages at a time and flipping pages is simply a click on the page down button. What could be easier? The only downside is that its just as easy to switch over to the internet and get distracted by reading Pianoworld.

Still, I prefer to purchase nicely printed physical scores. There's nothing like a nicely hand-crafted Henle Verlag and my own scans are far superior to anything I've seen on IMSLP. I also still purchase CDs because I like to read the liner notes. But like I said, it seems I'm the odd bird...

I use a 22" monitor to display PDF scores at full size (same as paper scores), two pages at a time. I have pedals next to the three piano pedals, arranged to page forward or backward in the scores. If I have a paper score, and plan to try to learn something, I scan it to PDF and use the monitor. I can load multiple scores at the same time, and switch between pieces in a twinkling. I can annotate the PDFs with fingering or other notes while they are displayed for playing with no difficulty. While I am a rank beginner at playing, I don't see any reason why this system wouldn't work, even for someone who was an expert. For studying away from the piano, I might print a copy of the PDF.