I am tired of being the T in LGBT (A guest post by Lesley Roberta)

I am not really interested in being part of the LGB and their causes. I am not interested in being seen as part of the LGB issues. Because I will be blunt, I am not part of the LGB in LGBT.

My issues are transgender issues. I don’t want to have people mistaking my transgender issues as being about SEX.

It isn’t about my sex life, it is about my gender and how I want to be perceived by others.

It is my whole life and my happiness that is my issue as with many other transgender individuals.

Life is hard as T; I am simply too worn down, too under powered to cope with problems, ANY problems, not specifically on my list – my transgender issues list.

I am a woman; I just currently have some parts I need to get rid of.
I am unsure if that will even help.
I just want to be seen as the woman I am.

Sex is not integral to me. I don’t want my sex life to be part of the transgender discussion.
Sex is basically a 30 minute amusement. I’d rather focus on making the other 23 hours and 30 minutes in the day more comfortable mentally and physically.

My transgender issues?

New wardrobe for my self expression, hassle issues in public, particularly bathrooms, being addressed with the wrong pronouns, being rejected because of me.

Note: LG people are usually rejected based on their sexual orientation, not their being.

I just want to be acknowledged as existing. I don’t want to force anything on anyone. I just want people to actually see ME. Not the person they insist on seeing.

This Christmas, I’d really like to be Aunt Lesley, I’d like my gifts for mom to be from her daughter and my gift to my brother and sister to be from their sister. She’s a great baker.

I’m tired of people having trouble wrapping their head around the idea. And I don’t think being associated with the LGB community really helps. Because my problems have absolutely nothing to do with sex.

I’d settle for the world just accepting that people are not as limited as it seems so many need us to be. I want transgender acceptance, and transgender Equality.

Fully understand that your issues are about how you view yourself and how others perceive you. I also understand that TG people don’t transition due to sexual attraction and that autogynephilia is a fact only in a worl-is-flat realm.

Still, LGB are groups of people who are gender non-conforming, and so are T people. Clearly I understand that who you are attracted to is entirely different than what you know about yourself – they are two separate issues and yet they deserve further conversation.

Interesting how many coming out TG people want others to align their thinking about a person’s gender with that that they wish to be seen as, but spend little time talking about sexuality. And yet I could easily argue that these two are inextricably linked.

Why? Because when you are attracted to someone you could be LGB. Most T are. Are you asexual? Lots of transfolks are. Are you straight? Might be – but your definition of straight (as a TG person) might not align with others perception. Does a transman sleeping with a woman equal “straight” or “lesbian”? Labels have little common meaning when TG folks are involved.

In terms of trying to achieve equality, access to work opportunities, proper medical care, acceptance by religions, access to credit, etc., TG people have much in common with LGB people.

In my opinion, the need to distance ourselves so that others may understand our gender journeys is not stronger than the need we have to promote the idea that all human beings come with a richness of diversity that should be celebrated. Or another way of saying it, transpeople should not have to disavow or proclaim any part of their sexuality to gain acceptance or understanding.

We are human – with gender identities, sexual orientations, romantic orientations, and sexes assigned at birth and in some cases, sexes assigned later in life.

For starters using the right terms to describe yourself would help you see the light at the end of the tunnel..

You have some “extra bits” you NEED to get rid of.. well my sister let me tell you that ,akes you a transsexual, not that transgender gay men playing dressing up and poncing about in the lgbt-for-token.. NO, a transsexual. Ever wonder why ALL the physical medical books talk about TRANSSEXUAL treatments? It’s because what we have is a phisical condition, a simple to understand change in the way ve developed before birth. We don’t imagine it might be nice dressing up for homosexual sex (I bloody hate that kind of sex, even though it’s hetero.. whereas hetero with my own sex doesn’t and has never interested me).. tangled to explain.. get my drift?… Men theres a physical mismatch of plumbing, Girls, not interested.. yeah??

Once you see that then the rest falls into place. There are plenty of people saying the same thing. Some of us have been around from well before there was an lgb, and way before transgender forcibly replaced, then silenced, then erased, transsexual.. my disgnosis is transsexual, not some political term transgender (my gender HAS NOT AND IS NOT CHANGING!!!.. it’s my physical SEX which is being modified to fit my brain.. because it’s simple.. gender is a brain thing and sex is a physical thing) Of course stalkery gay men who like playing dressing up fetish games would never understand that.. and it’s easy to test.. TRUE gay men don’t find transsexual women in the least attractive.

Right now there is a split appening. For the transsexual woman getting as far away as possible from the deviant fetish connotations and back to something like where we were in the 70’s will be a very good thing. It doesn’t take massive numbers of us to make lawmakers see sense.. in fact in our case the less numbers of us they see the better.. as transsexuals.. on the way to fully physical women..(a straight woman can’t possibly be a threat to another straight woman in a womans bathroom.. can she?.. I would be more worried about a lesbian in there (minimal, but they have eyes.. I’m not a lesbian .. hard to define possibility of motive.. are there predatory lesbians genetic females??), or *shudders* one of these fetish “transgender lesbians with a dick who is keeping it ‘cos they like using it on women”. Why?.. because they make ME bloody uncomfortable when they are in the bathroom at the same time.
Separate away and get clear, make our pitch from a clean and clear base “we are women” (or men for transguys).. We are not some sexual deviants and perverts, we are straight normal heterosexual (after surgery) people who just want ordinary lives.. we have the right to have that as does every other person (see. we aren’t asking for special consideration of some deviant behaviour.. just to get fixed and be left alone)

Welcome to the sisterhood of the TS Separatists.. it’s a fun place where men in dresses will shout you down and erase you, but hey.. that’s what they do in the transgender wing of the lgbt anyway.. so we should be used to it by now.

Haven’t gone near transguys issues.. but notice they keep the hell away from lgb groupings too..

Renate Hartman writes: “And I don’t think being associated with the LGB community really helps. Because my problems have absolutely nothing to do with sex.”
(Umm… Actually gay peoples’ struggle for civil equality doesn’t have anything to do with sex either. And it’s rather offensive that you think we’re just all about our sex lives.)

First of all I did not write the post. Lesley did. But to address your comment.
The LGB civil rights efforts started when most states had laws against men having sex with men and women having sex with women. These laws caused massive discrimination against LGB communities. Initial efforts were based on the type of sex LGB people engaged in and was manisfest as hate for that sexual orientation. First efforts to counteract these civil rights started with movement to have the group being accepted as homosexuals and have the same rights as straight people. That is about sex and sexual orientation. It moved on for the LGB community to stop anti-discrimination against the group. That has largely been successful. Again the discrimination was based on sexual orientation. It moved on to the permission of same sex marriage, and is now starting to focus on adoption rights of same sex couples.
I think where the T does not fit is that transgender sexually orientation fits more closely with the non-LGB community. Our issue is discrimination against people who have gender and chromosome misalignment. The transgender civil rights issue is just about gender discrimination when gender is misaligned with chromosomes.
As such we need our own voice. That does not mean we cannot align with the LGB organizations when it works but we must take the lead in gaining ground on the systemic discrimination found against transgender people.

Caroline, I agree with you entirely with a couple of exceptions.
We might have much in common with the LGB community based on issues but LGB organizations have not been at all effective in gaining the civil rights for transgender people. The LGB community has made major gains in recent legislation but very often the T has not been included in new laws. In fact, at times we have been thrown under the bus.
A case in point. In Albany county a gay legislator proposed major amendments to the county human rights law. In committee when challenged about transgender inclusion, his response was that that issue wasn’t really key for his legislation. If trans people and advocates had not been at that meeting and started a very active pro trans program, no anti-discrimination law would have been passed. The local LGB organizations were not there to help either.
Again while the areas where LGB and trans people are the same. The basis of discrimination and the resolution of it requires different social and political strategies and execution. The trans communities (and there is not a single one) need to start working more closely to achieve success in combating legal and social discrimination against trans individuals.
That you for the thoughtful response, Caroline.

I get what she’s saying and don’t at the same time. Yes, I see how one wishing to live as a woman is more concerned with being accepted as a woman than being accepted as a trans, or that sexuality and identity are two different and separate things; however, the LGB people also have a struggle of being accepted as people and not only for their sexual preferences, not to mention there ARE LGB trans individuals anyway. It’s uniting to get the public educated, to get laws changed, and to find support in an understanding community. Yes, there really should be more groups that have specific focus’ – for the trans community as well as for LGB, etc. I never knew until a post on FB the term pansexual, which apparently is what I am, even though since 11 I’ve gone to LGBT groups and had friends who were such. But then again, personally, I think labels are silly. We’re all people. I don’t see why it should matter what genitals you have, what you call them, how you dress, or who you like. Unfortunately the world isn’t with me on that one yet…

There was just a link on this to a FB page. In the discussion I mentioned the differences between CD’s and TS’s under the umbrella. Right off the bat we see TS’s distancing themselves from CD’s so here is my response to the whole thing. This is a good conversation to have within the community.

——————————————————————-

Which is exactly WHY I threw this in the mix.

So here we see T’s distancing themselves with CD’s and Tv’s etc. Very similar to the authors desire to distance the T from GLB. So would it be fair of a “Transsexual” to assume privilege and state that they should be protected from discrimination because theirs is a medical condition and the CD’s is a sex issue?

Absolutely not, it’s discrimination either way. Heck I got discriminated against yesterday because someone assumed I was “Cis” nd felt I had no business having an opinion on a trans issue.

The idea of GLBT has little to do with ones core and more to do with supporting one another. No more, no less. This is WHY the “T” community was up in arms over the HRC dropping them from the ENDA bill in order to guarantee passage for the GLB people. no more no less.

Would it be fair for a post op T to say they should have access to proper bathrooms but those who haven’t had or do not want surgery shouldn’t? privilege is a funny thing and it’s based on how we view ourselves VS how we view others. And THAT breeds discrimination based on those views.

So here we are battling for rights and someone says hey, the “T” shouldn’t be in there, I don’t want to be negatively labeled because those others are viewed freaky. Then The T’s decide they don’t want to be labeled TG because they aren’t like those freaky CD’s and TVs. Then the post-ops distance themselves from the non ops because hey, we need bathroom privilege and pretty soon everyone is in their neat little labeled groups because none is like the other. Just like years ago the G’s and L’s wanted to distance themselves from the B’s because those nasty B’s couldn’t make up their mind and straddled the line.

Everyone my friends has something to be proud of and something to be ashamed of. It’s much easier to deal with those things when you have someone who supports you. No more, no less.

First thanks for those replying to my comments. They were not easy to write, as I want no ill feelings generated in the process.

Terminology, I am something of a literary demon, and I have to confess, I hate any term that begins with the letters trans. I am not in the transition from anything to anything. But that’s me. I would rather be identified as a woman and as female and no secondary terms whatsover.

My body is under renovation. But so isn’t a weight lifter’s, or a person on a diet. My sister required no specific term to describe her surgery to free her of contact lenses. I had a hernia operation once.

Now as for sex life. I’m 52, I’m effectively through the whole have babies portion of my life. Having my son is the crowning moment of my own personal existence. I’d have gladly gone the female route if life had put that option out there for me. It didn’t. I got to do the usual sperm supplier function.

It’s a simple truth of life. Someone has to provide the egg, and someone the sperm. How it is actually performed in not really vital.

The fact that many humans can enjoy using their respective parts in more than the basic process method, just means humans are a creative species when it comes to finding enjoyment.

It’s truly a shame there needs to be ANY stigma whatsoever to how a person ends up having an enjoyable OMG moment.

If tomorrow, I was told Lesley, we have a doctor ready, he can remove your sex organ, and testicles, all you will have is an opening to pee from which will require that you sit in order to do it. You won’t have any skillfully arrived at vagina, you just won’t have the things you have now…… I’d be ok with that.

Sex, it’s a hassle after a point.
I don’t need it any more.
I don’t need kids any more.
Check please.

Sure I would like to have a vagina. I hope the wait ends before the world does.

I know walking down the street, I will not have anyway to display I have no penis, and in fact have a vagina following the operation.
Perhaps hormone therapy can help make me look a little closer to my dream.

My dream is not to dress ‘like’ a woman. I AM a woman. I want to enjoy my clothes is all.

I don’t dream of any day when people just can’t tell the difference between me and my sister. I don’t expect that to ever really happen.

I only dream of a day, when I can sit in my home, and not need to live with anything that bothers me personally.

Really, the only thing that separates a gay man and a straight man is whom they prefer to engage in sex with. They don’t need to change their name. They don’t need to alter their clothing. The way their bodies do what they do is no real problem for gay and straight men.

I am stuck inside what on the surface could be considered a perfectly acceptable male body for any man.

There is no doubt that in several key instances some LGB organizations have let us under the bus (see “Transitions” by Eliza Gray, TNR). But I would argue with you that some organizations have benefited us as well. HRC is one that left us under the bus. And yet it is HRC’s corporate index that has helped hundreds of major companies provide insurance to TG folks. I use to persuade companies to adopt that model. 12 years ago, there weren’t any companies.

The Task Force has helped in many lawsuits and helped create change on federal policies (along with NCTE) and it was their lawyer (Lisa Mottet) who helped write most anti-discrimination laws in the states where they exist now. Anyone who overlooks her contributions knows little of our history. BTW, Lisa joing NCTE where another hero of community reside – Mara Keisling.

Get a passport? Thank Lisa and Mara… No more “no match” letters referencing sex to employers, thank Lisa and Mara… I could go on and on about this pair, but if you don’t know our whole community owes them beyond anything we could ever repay.

Passing non-discrimination laws? look for help from PFLAG…

Yes, I have been involved at local and national levels helping change the laws. Our future rests on uniting others to our cause, not by chasing them away.

But on our personal journey, it is totally understandable why we don’t want others to think we need to express our true gender because of any other reason than that is who we are – I call it living with integrity. I think this was the original reason of your blog… and a position that I fully suport.

You do understand that you are experiencing emotionally what a good many post op T women experience. The need to feel free of the labels and just “be”. Hence the reason a lot go stealth. They feel they have shed their skin and are ready to just live.

You’re feeling no different, it’s just that at the moment you have arrived at feeling that way, you’re a work in progress. Here’s the reality. Even post ops are a work in progress. We are always going to be a work in progress. Not because we are trans, but because we are human beings at living life is in fact growing every day.

The difference between distancing yourself from GLBT is much different than wanting to just “Be” which is exactly what you are describing.

Thanks for the comment Karyn. I have a single issue and that is the use of stealth for birth sex males or females who are now living quietly in their gender identity: both privately and publicly.
For some of my thoughts on the issue see. http://blog.timesunion.com/transgender/hidden-in-social-mist/846/ and watch for my next blog at the end of the week.

Hehe 🙂 Stealth and me are not buddies. I’m an Aries, I couldn’t do stealth to save my soul.

I don’t dream of passing any more than I dream of being thin. I’ve had to come to grips with the fact I likely will never really ever get ‘thin’ again. I likely will also never look young again too 🙂

I actually have lived with a few demons over the years.
I have the oldest one, being the education demon and never really feeling like anyone sees my knowledge base.
I have the job demon. My father worked 43 years straight, missed THREE DAYS, one of those days, my mother was IN THE PROCESS OF HAVING ME, and dad stops by the train station to let them know he wouldn’t be able to come in that day. Me, I have worked I guess 4 lousy years out of my 30+ adult years.

When I walk down the street, I am conscious and aware of my appearance and how it doesn’t live up to my wishes, but, it actually isn’t really the primary burden in my day.

I’m not a bathroom rights warrior, because I simply haven’t reached a point where I want to make my life harder all so I can pee in a stall next to another woman. Watching a man pee really doesn’t bother me. Done it too often myself.

I’d rather be called Mrs more than secure bathroom rights given a choice. I’d rather be allowed to be a wife, even if I am married to someone that also has that label. I suppose everyone has their own needs and objectives.

I like Karyn’s comment about all of us always being ‘a work in progress’. I feel that way too. A day without some sort of progress to something else, is a day squandered. We only get so many. I just hate to see any of them wasted.

I was told ‘you will need to wait till your assessment’ to get on hormone treatments by the first endo I have contacted. I’m not planning to just accept that though. I’m not waiting through all of 2014 and into 2015 to get some manner of peace and quiet from my system. It translates to being asked to live in a house that has been torn up and left partially renovated for a year while nothing is done.

Not likely.

I’ve got plans. I want to be learning the skills I unfortunately never mastered. I want to do learn them from my mom while she’s still with me.

Some causes will still be causes after I am dead and gone.
I will be there to support the fight, but, I plan to get on with my life with or without the victories.

I don’t do stealth. And god help the poor bugger that makes the mistake of telling me what I can and can’t be to my face 🙂
Some transgender people are activists, and some transgender people are best described as an activist’s guard dog.

The idea that there are two types of trans: those that want to shed the label and those that revel in it has some merit. But the question in which are the people most happy is not relevant.
Let me explain.
Those on the binary, by and large, just want to be accepted as the gender with which they identify. They are happy to leave the trans label.
But those that are gender varient are quite happy to wear the label “transgender”.
The trick is for each transgender individual to know where they will be most happy and settle in there.

“I was told ‘you will need to wait till your assessment’ to get on hormone treatments by the first endo I have contacted. I’m not planning to just accept that though. I’m not waiting through all of 2014 and into 2015 to get some manner of peace and quiet from my system. It translates to being asked to live in a house that has been torn up and left partially renovated for a year while nothing is done.”

So. You’re 52, and everyone else is “wrong” somehow even though you’ve only had ONE consultation with ONE endo about endocrine therapy.

The LGBT link has NOTHING to do with your impatience and frustration that somehow is NOW, intolerable.

But if it’s any consolation, most LGB people don’t feel any affinity with you either. The days of the 1960s and 70s when everyone mostly “got along” are long over.

Even in the comments here, one poster says “we are straight normal heterosexual (after surgery) people who just want ordinary lives”. “AFTER SURGERY” is when you get “normal”???

If you speak to other transwomen they’ll insist surgery has nothing to do with it and how dare you be confused.

OVER. IT.

Note: The Times Union is not responsible for posts and comments written by non-staff members.

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