Diabotical, a project that began formally in mid 2012, will now continue development, with beta release projected for June 2017. After initial rumours and hype surrounding the game, fans became frustrated by an apparent lack of progress on the game, however the recent Kickstarter release and trailer seems to have convinced or at least excited many in the hardcore AFPS playerbase about the game's future.

- Reflex: Fast-paced, CPMA-inspired game currently in Steam early access
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As of 30th August, Diabotical developers 2GD and FireFrog are running an AMA for the game (Ask Me Anything) over on Reddit.

Players who missed out on the Kickstarter campaign can still make paypal donations to receive beta access on the Kickstarter page until 5th September.

We will now be accepting Paypal contributions until September 5th, 2016, for all non-experience rewards. To make a contribution through Paypal, check out our rewards at our Kickstarter campaign page, then click on the Paypal button to the right and introduce the corresponding amount. Please remember that EXP rewards cannot be obtained through Paypal.

today somone stole my great great britain fucking seven pounds, i got informed by sms..
gl with project.
still I am 70% with QC and 30% with Diabotical. But atleast I have plan B , if plan A fails totaly :))

So much hypocrisy. You attack CPM movement but apparently you're okay with Diabotical when it has aircontrol, double jumps, grappling hooks, etc.. And you'll say, "But it's not final!". So is Reflex which is still alpha, early access...

It's clear to anyone reading your comments that you have irrational hate for CPM and that blinds you to any objective criticism of Reflex or Diabotical.

edit. don't get me wrong. I watched some stream of reflex, watched some vods of some cups. And I thought "damn, so small team build such nice game and still building and improving". I respect what reflex devs are doing, it's insane quality game already, but I didn't have "drive" about it. Maybe that CPM movement made first bad impresion.
And I am not alone, reflex have so little player base, so it's not just mine opinion. And quakers are not sheeps... Reflex as a game, are close to Warsaw game, I don't see much improvement from it. And I played WSW for 1 year, it was fun, so it proves, I don't hate CPM movement :)

Diabotical already have some small details, that gives it an edge over reflex. reflex is like to perfect, like silicone barbie girl. it's looks nice, but you don't want to have serious relationship with it..

and big part too, that reflext have no future, no tourneys,no big player base. if the same game reflex would be released by ID, I would play it, same goes with atleast 1000 more players I guess.

What small details gives Diabotical an edge? Right now, there's a pretty basic game wrapped in an "fun", but superficial package, and 2GD making a lot of promises about what the final product will look like.

I'm not trying to take anything away from what Diabotical is trying to accomplish but the way it is being lauded by some people versus how Reflex is criticized by those same people (like you) on this forum is breathtakingly hypocritical.

Why you picked me? I don't go in to reflex news ,or forums and telling how shit game is. I just ignore it. I don't care about it.
and years ago, if CPM was more played and picked by tourneys, I would played it.

People aren't attacking CPM. We all here have played and enjoyed games with similar movement.

They are attacking the fact Reflex intends to revive CPM but without bringing nothing new to the table in terms of gameplay. It's yet another Quake clone with tiny adjustments but copying it anyway. Pointless.

Some even think CPM itself is better than Reflex, after that project started in 2012 (4 years in development). In my experience with both (albeit short) it's obvious CPM is much more polished, has much more content, the gameplay and balance is more coherent (Quake clones tend to have awful balancing due to implementing every single idea), and in the end is more fun to play. Makes Reflex be... double pointless.

And then Reflex has no players. It has stabilized at 30 to 40 players total, failing at its mission. Triple pointless. No wonder people don't have high hopes anymore about Reflex succeeding, whereas they used to last year.

Diabotical and Quake Champions aim at being a game of the genre that's not a dead copycat. That alone puts them above Reflex, and be worth backing and playing. Diabotical will be a platform for the community to use with modern features (the opposite of Reflex) and QC will be a polished and current team game (never seen in the Arena subgenre).

It's yet another Quake clone with tiny adjustments but copying it anyway. Pointless.

Having recently started to play one of these so called quake clones, namely warsow, that game is about as far away from cpm as cpm is from vq3/ql. Xonotic (the second well-known quake clone) is, from what I've read about it, is in a similar league of different again. There's more that differentiates these kind of games than air control.
By those standards, reflex truly is a cpm clone (changes simply are not very significant compared to warsow/xonotic). That being said, the only thing that does not make it a superior iteration of cpm in my eyes is the fact that it doesn't run on alternative operating systems or kinda old systems (my 560 does not give me acceptable performance at all times). In everything else, it's more or less as good than cpm or better. But not by a very large margin, it is still a clone. That combined with the fact that CPMA at the end of the day is not that bad (I certainly wouldn't call it polished though), makes Reflex look like a pointless project. Even more so that the team did not capitalize on its most useful ressource: The community. Apart from huds and maps, users have no way of going off and doing new things with the game. Can't mod it, can't do your own rulesets to get rid of timers or have them on or whatever, can't change the movement, can't change the weapon balance, nothing. In Reflex, the devs are the absolute final authority on all of these decisions. And that's just them giving themselves too much credit. Why not let people play vq3 movement? Who cares? Hate to say it, but 2gd of all people seems to have a better idea about how to make a game that non-arenafps people actually want to play (which, to be fair, Reflex have explicitly stated is a non-goal).
It really is a waste of a very very good-feeling and decently-looking engine.

Diabotical and QC are normie titles with free audiences of hundreds of thousands or millions of people. Id could make a literal Overwatch reskin and it would be successful, and 2GD could make the game QC is probably gonna be, and it would be successful. Reflex can do whatever they want, as long as their marketing budget stays below 6-digit numbers, it's not gonna matter.

What does Diabotical bring new to gameplay? Looks like it has pretty much all the same gameplay ingredients as any afps: same weapons, same movement, etc.. The only difference is presentation and some future features (like survival mode, which will be fun for all of 10mins before people get bored of it).

Of course CPM is more polished, it has been around 15+ years and is a mod of a (at the time) triple A title. But the same could be said of Diabotical. How many years has that game been in dev? At least 3, maybe more. Are we going to criticize it because of that? Because it is not as polished as QL or CPM? Of course not because, for whatever reason, Diabotical gets a free pass on the very same issues you (and others) criticize Reflex for.

Reflex has many modern features, some of which Diabotical has chosen to copy (like multiplayer mapmaking), and some of which Diabotical has not yet copied (like Lua scripting) but probably will at some point.

I disagree. If all they wanted to do is make a CPM clone, they wasted their time -- CPM already exists. Yes, movement is "similar" and there's tiered armor, but the game aspires to be more than judge as a CPM clone. Go to the Reflex forums and see how active the devs are about "experimental" gameplay changes. They are very willing to test out various ideas.

No, it's not like CPM, it just looks like CPM. This is an important distinction because CPM is still years ahead in terms of everything that people play AFPS give a fuck about (and I doubt this will change). Look at the updated knock-back system: https://gfycat.com/InfantileShoddyIndianglassfish (LOL)

They did their best to make a CPM clone (+gimmicks like "triple jumps" and "stake jumps") but failed in pretty much every regard. The movement is worse, the weapons are worse, the fighting is worse, strategy is less important (at least it was in CTF&TDM), the netcode after 80 ping is horrible, the graphics are an issue for half the community, the community itself is devoid of any sort of brain-trust (although there a few an intelligent individuals, most people are dumb as fuck), and there is a grand total of maybe 1 good new original map (static discharge).

The game is done, and last few updates have felt very "cheap"; I mean just look at the "Training" stuff the implemented, it's a joke =D Literally some shitty movement rooms which have text pop-ups, and the "Aim Training" is just some moving targets... and that's supposed to prepare new players for online-play (lmao).

TBH feels like the devs just want to wrap things up as quickly as possible, and move on with their lives.

The Reflex movement is more enjoyable with the stronger +forward behavior. I prefer the Reflex weapon balance where projectiles > hitscan, unlike CPM where basically LG and RG are only weapons used in high level play. Netcode is better, even for hpb (no crazy warp rockets like in CPM).

You left out the new animations which are very polished and look great. Training maps... What else would you suggest, short of bots (which will someday come), for training? Those will be polished and added to in time.

Let's keep in mind that the devs have consistently updated the game regularly. There have been 7 major updates since January (almost 1 a month) and the game keeps getting more quality community content like great widgets and maps.

The Reflex movement is more enjoyable with the stronger +forward behavior.

For who? Most people that went from CPM->Reflex have had the opposite experience. Reflex's left/right movement is quite weak, and the ground accel/friction makes the game feel like it's on ice and because of this god-awful decision, yes, going +forward is more powerful.

I prefer the Reflex weapon balance

There is a clear tier-ing of weapons in CPM, which actually mean something, which is missing in Reflex. Weapons like the Plasma, and GL have a ridiculous ability to constantly shift the sway of games against much better armed/stacked players (https://gfycat.com/InfantileShoddyIndianglassfish). The game is more dependent on the RL because in Reflex, the rockets are just retarded, if fact if you go the forums you'll see Reflex players attesting to this -- it's not just an issue of damage, splash radius, KB, the gun also has some kind of delay built into it. The LG is less useful in Reflex, and lifting people just seems more difficult, tbh the LG in general has just been historically shit since I first started playing Reflex. Overall, the weapons in Reflex are a cluster fuck at the moment.

You left out the new animations

Falls under the list of "don't give a fuck about." But you're right, they are polished, and can look good. To be honest I find them quite annoying, and always have (even in Q3).

Training maps... What else would you suggest, short of bots (which will someday come), for training? Those will be polished and added to in time.

The current training maps are fucking dog-trash level of laziness. They could be longer, have more difficult parts, be interactive, have more ways of actually grabbing a players attention than some dinky ass text, and coins. Maybe something like a dance-dance-revolution type of game-mode where you're expected to do certain inputs? The wheel doesn't need to be re-invented, but man that shit is mad lazy.

Let's keep in mind that the devs have consistently updated the game regularly. There have been 7 major updates since January (almost 1 a month) and the game keeps getting more quality community content like great widgets and maps.

You're right, compared to the version that was out in January, the game has (technically) come a long way. But the game-play hasn't, in fact all the recent game-play changes have seemed random as fuck.

If by "clear tiering", you mean that some weapons are OP and used 75% of the time and the remaining weapons are jokes which are never used, yeah... And that's a problem, not an ideal. Ideally, every weapon should be useful in some situation. I think that's mostly how Reflex plays currently -every weapon can be really lethal in the right situation. GL is crazy as fuck in Reflex in some situations whereas in CPM it was a joke weapon. What's the point of even having GL in the game when it's such an impotent weapon?

The prob is you're so used to a particular weapon balance you don't seem to get why CPM isn't really that balanced. The game never evolved after PMC and since then players, hardware, and internet connections have been getting better to the point that CPM is largely just "whoever has better hitscan".

Man, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. Devs trying to balance adding new features versus gameplay changes. The training update was more about adding targets, turrets, tokens, and leaderboards than about the out of the box training maps. Because now that those "tools" are out there for the community, people can start making their own training maps. All the while, the devs have been making changes in experimental rulesets so people can test out various changes to weapon balances.

Well in you're in a very small minority. That doesn't mean that one CPM's movement is objectively better, but most Promoders don't think the movement, amongst other things, is very good in Reflex. I think this is an important consideration to take in because the game is not appealing to the small CPM community or the larger, but still small, VQ3 community.

Yeah, that's what tiers mean, someone weapons are just flat out better than others, meanwhile the weaker weapons have situational use. Reflex duelers constantly bitch about the weapons because they're terrible.

I think that's mostly how Reflex plays currently -every weapon can be really lethal in the right situation.

lol, in the the right situation? How about most or many situations? They're fucking retarded. The PG is just fucking lol. Look at this gif. :|

The prob is you're so used to a particular weapon balance you don't seem to get why CPM isn't really that balanced.

It's not supposed to reach some sort of mythical "balance." The entire point of the game, the weapons, armors, power-ups, etc, is to TIP the balance in one player's/team's favour. That is a much better approach than Reflex.

The game never evolved after PMC

Ye, it did, it was called Promode 2.0, and it caused a massive shit storm.

Because now that those "tools" are out there for the community, people can start making their own training maps.

Is this a joke? You mean, I have to pay for the game, and create the content? :| I'm sorry but that's very wrong. In the past content creation tools were provided for games, but not "here are the tools, make the game good." Q3, however trash the default game was, came with some classic maps, Reflex OTO has one official map after 3? 4? years of development. If the lack of content does not make you weary, then you're being delusional, let me ask you, have they even finished the weapons yet? The answer to that is: no, they haven't. The fact that the most basic visuals are incomplete tell you something about the state of the project.

Side Note: Interesting that blackroom basically got a similar amount of money as diabotical, sort of shows the size of the arena fps community. If anyone wants to do an arena fps on kickstarter shouldn't do more than 120k tbh if they want the monies.