Anyone familiar with the most recent translation of the Surangama Sutra by the Buddhist Text Society? I've read the 2003 edition and I'd like to know if there's reason to check out the newer one. Can anyone explain the differences between these two?

David Rounds and a few other members of BTTS translated a few words from sanskrit a bit differently, they also enhanced the grammar and added footnotes at the bottom to make it a lot easier for the reader. I also believe that they didn't change any commentaries made by the Venerable Master. I don't think it is that much different besides the footnotes and different translation of the sanskrit words.

Jikan wrote:Anyone familiar with the most recent translation of the Surangama Sutra by the Buddhist Text Society? I've read the 2003 edition and I'd like to know if there's reason to check out the newer one. Can anyone explain the differences between these two?

many thanks

The new one has a very much condensed commentary in order to put it in one volume. The translation is different, not just in the Sanskrit terms; cannot say if it is better or not. I kept only the 6-vol. 2003 version, which was a little different in translation than the old paperback ones, both of which differ from this new one.

Oh, you're right. I just took a look at the translation and they did leave out chunks of Ven. Master's commentaries on various parts. Well, I honestly prefer this version over the other because I think the footnotes help a lot, minus the fact that they didn't include a lot of Master Hua's commentary.

Jikan wrote:Anyone familiar with the most recent translation of the Surangama Sutra by the Buddhist Text Society? I've read the 2003 edition and I'd like to know if there's reason to check out the newer one. Can anyone explain the differences between these two?

many thanks

Hi,

As per Will, above. I think that there is definitely good reason to get a copy of this one. First of all, time wise, they've had much longer to work on the text, not just as a translation but through their practice. That will always reflect, even if not on the words on the page.

Also, having in one, albeit large, volume, is much more usable than the previous multi-volume set. It's also in hard cover, so I'll keep better.

It seems to me that they had to restrain usage of Master's commentary to keep the size down. I think they've done a good job. It is easy to put a lot of stuff in, make it huge, but it takes a lot of work to keep it down to the essentials. I think that they've put in the commentary where it is needed most.

I guess, if one needs the full commentary, they can always get the old version and read that too.

Thanks, everyone. I only read the first volume of the 2003 edition, the sutra text itself, and found myself scratching my head over certain passages. I began to suspect that my poor head wasn't interfacing very well with the translation. I'll check out the new one and have a look at what commentaries are provided in it.

This may or may not be an appropriate place to ask, but could someone please help me understand how the concept of emptiness works in this sutra? Nearly all my questions while reading arose around its treatment.

I was thinking about ordering the new translation as well, however I came across this review:

Well, I compared this one to the first BTTS translation of this sutra: in this new version, they condensed eight volumes into one. How? By deleting most of their now-deceased Master Hsuan Hua's commentary, and only summarizing selections from it, while replacing most of it with their own -- somewhat dubious -- explanations. They also reinterpreted and rephrased virtually all of the text, making it more wordy and vague, with repetitive use of a limited range of vocabulary. Nor are the English grammar and syntax any better in this new version.

Most noticeably, their rewriting drastically softened the most stunning, thought-provoking pronouncements of both Master Hua and the Sutra itself, as found in the first version. Topics included here are sex, meat-eating, and self-mutilation. Apparently, this translation group is sheepishly trying to mitigate the impact of this famously difficult and controversial sutra's statements, to make it palatable for non-Buddhists.

I still plan on ordering this new translation some time in the near future, but was wondering about members thoughts on this.

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

I picked out that one review because all the others were in praise of the book and wanted to see if there was any merit to it. I was hoping someone who had read both the early translations with commentary as well as the new translation could chime in.

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

I picked out that one review because all the others were in praise of the book and wanted to see if there was any merit to it. I was hoping someone who had read both the early translations with commentary as well as the new translation could chime in.

I disagree with that review given above.

For a start, didn't find any of "their own" explanations at all. They have the translation of the sutra, and at times parts of Master Hua's own commentary. That's it. There are a few very little portions in the footnotes, but these are minor and helpful.

The vocab is much better. The first version, like many of BTTS early translations, was rather Chinglish, heavily reliant on literal translations from the Chinese. eg. binomes are always binomes, word for word. This new version avoids that to quite an extent.

I don't think that they are trying to mitigate statements from Master Hua. The group is still very very loyal to him and his teachings. You almost get the feeling that he was still physically alive at their centers.

Lastly, I don't think that their target audience is non-Buddhists at all. It is rather for rather high-end practitioners of the Mahayana.

I picked out that one review because all the others were in praise of the book and wanted to see if there was any merit to it. I was hoping someone who had read both the early translations with commentary as well as the new translation could chime in.

I disagree with that review given above.

For a start, didn't find any of "their own" explanations at all. They have the translation of the sutra, and at times parts of Master Hua's own commentary. That's it. There are a few very little portions in the footnotes, but these are minor and helpful.

The vocab is much better. The first version, like many of BTTS early translations, was rather Chinglish, heavily reliant on literal translations from the Chinese. eg. binomes are always binomes, word for word. This new version avoids that to quite an extent.

I don't think that they are trying to mitigate statements from Master Hua. The group is still very very loyal to him and his teachings. You almost get the feeling that he was still physically alive at their centers.

Lastly, I don't think that their target audience is non-Buddhists at all. It is rather for rather high-end practitioners of the Mahayana.

How foolish you are, grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention! - Vasubandhu

The Buddha said to Ānanda and the rest of the great assembly, “You should know that although the twelve classes of beings in this world have outflows, they are, nevertheless, fundamentally identical to the Buddhas of the ten directions, in that they all are fundamentally endowed with the wondrous enlightened understanding — with the awakened, perfect, essential mind. But their thinking is deluded and they have a confused view of the truth, and so they stubbornly cling to emotional attachments.”

“As a result, space appears, and as they become more and more confused, worlds come into being. In the lands in the ten directions, numerous as motes of dust, beings who have outflows are created out of confusion, obstinacy, and deluded thinking. You should know that space is created within the mind. It is like a wisp of cloud in the vastness of the sky. The worlds in the emptiness of space are even less significant. If you discover true reality by returning to the source, space throughout the ten directions will disappear. How could all the lands not cease to be as well?

Excerpt From: BTTS. The Śūraṅgama Sūtra With Excerpts from the Commentary by the Venerable Master Hsüan Hua; from the beginning of 50 Demonic States section, page 392.

Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

The Śūraṅgama Sūtra has traditionally been regardedas a complete and practical manual for spiritual practice thatwill eventually lead to enlightenment. It gives instruction in the correctunderstanding of the Buddha-nature, which is the potential within allbeings for becoming a Buddha. The Sutra explains how and why this truenature is hidden within our ordinary experience of ourselves and of theworld, and it shows how we can uncover this nature and recognize that itis our own true mind.

The Sutra also explains that personal integrity and purity of conduct are essential prerequisites for spiritual awakening.

It presents the general principles of Buddhist meditation, introduces severalspecific meditation methods, and recommends which methods are themost effective and the easiest to practice.

Further, a considerable portion of the Sutra isdevoted to guidelines for discerning what understandingsand practices are correct and which deviate into wrong ones. It explainshow our own intentional acts, whether physical, verbal, or mental, directlyresult in our experiences, including our future rebirths at variouslevels of being, both human and nonhuman. It shows how correct actioncan also lead to initial awakenings and eventually to the perfect enlightenmentof the Buddhas.

From the translators' Introduction, p. xiv

Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

Scroll down just a little and the older eight volume translation with Master Hua's comments are given in eight separate pdf files. They have tables of contents and are easier to study than all eight volumes jammed into either an epub or pdf file.