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Topic: "Origins, Angels and Aliens" (Read 13538 times)

Paul Hazelwood

The reason I believe the CLV puts Genesis 3:20 H1961 as becomes rather than WAS is the translators I think take a more allegoric perspective of things.

Was is past tense. From a literal standpoint, EVE is now dead, so she existed in the past, therefore from that bias, "Was" fits.

But I am not so sure from a spiritual standpoint that is accurate. For EVE spiritually is representative of the beginning of humanity and nothing has caused that to be entirely past tense, since she still "IS" and has not ceased to be.

For instance, great things in my life do become the past, since they happened past tense. But they become a great and enduring part of my life, so I find it hard to say "That was great" since those things still encourage me to this day, Those things became and will never cease to be great.

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Paul Hazelwood

I have read this particular passage many times, and admit that I have never even researched whether or not the word "WAS" actually "was in the original text"... so in the end, ...we are BOTH floating in the same "translation" boat - eh?

And I entirely understand. We do our best, learn and seek and study and I certainly love the discussion of various things along these lines.

14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

---Genesis 1

This is why I try to find as many sources as I can to compare and study.

While I like the CLV and use it alot, I find that "earth" is not referenced from the manuscript text.

As best as I can tell, in my opinion, it is an assumption based upon

H7549 raqiya` raw-kee'-ah

from H7554;

properly, an expanse, i.e. the firmament or (apparently) visible arch of the sky:--firmament.

You know how far we can see into the universe now with our supertelescopes?

And, just those stars we can see with the naked eye--any idea how far away they are?

"20 March 2008—A powerful stellar explosion -- a gamma-ray burst -- has shattered the record for the most distant object that could be seen with the naked eye and also ranks as the most intrinsically bright object ever observed by humans in the universe.

"...and now we've got one that is so bright that it was visible to the naked eye even though its source is half-way across the universe," said David Burrows, senior scientist and professor of astronomy and astrophysics at Penn State University, ..."

19 Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to Adam ....

The parenthesis here shows the qualifier for "the earth". Until we know of another planet that inhabits intelligent life, there would be no point in using any other name except for where we reside.

However, the full scope of the word is more about land and and a world rather than being held to the specific name we have deemed the planet on which we reside.

From a literal point of view, sure, Adam being a literal man, was the literal beginning father of all humans on earth.

However, since we know, whether someone believes it or not, the bible has an allegoric meaning to existance there is room for interpretation that it can apply to all worlds in existance, if they indeed may exist.

I don't see that any alien beings are described as coming from our galaxy or other galaxies.

It seems like that would be pretty important information for us to have.

I'm more concerned with men pretending there is an invasion from other galaxies--war of the worlds worked so well, why not repeat it?

Yet, we look forward to a time when the stars and sun and moon will be no longer needed because there will be no more night.

22 But I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. 23 The city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it. The Lamb is its light. 24 And the nations of those who are saved shall walk in its light, and the kings of the earth bring their glory and honor into it. 25 Its gates shall not be shut at all by day (there shall be no night there).

Paul Hazelwood

I don't see that any other alien beings are described as coming from our galaxy or other galaxies.

It seems like that would be pretty important information for us to have.

I'm more concerned with men pretending there is an invasion from other galaxies--war of the worlds worked so well, why not repeat it?

It may be, but I am only suggesting as I have before that the bible cannot conclusively be used to discredit the possibility of life on other planets.

Mainly my point is this, one can speculate that there is no life on other worlds, because in truth, right now no one can be for sure. One can speculate that there is, only from the stand point that it cannot be proven one way or the other.

So, my perspective has been, would the manuscript text be invalid if indeed one day we actually found intelligent life on another world. I say no.

What people fear is irrevalent to whether anything is valid or invalid. If a person fears that we teach UR because someone may go out and murder someone since they may not fear eternity in hell any longer, what does that mean concerning the truth or lack thereof of UR in the bible?

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Yet, we look forward to a time when the stars and sun and moon will be no longer needed because there will be no more night.

...how many years of diligent thought did this conclusion accumulate from?

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14 Then God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth"; and it was so.

---Genesis 1

The Heavens were created for the sole reason of giving light on the earth?

This is like saying the oceans were created by GOD, solely to wash off the rocks by the seashore...

We cannot even begin to percieve the vast and COMPLEX reasons for the creation of the INFINITE heavens we observe...

Apart from giving LIGHT upon the earth, ...They are shown to be HIS SIGNATURE... presenting not just "LIGHT" upon the earth... but SCREAMING to us of HIS wonderful MAJESTY and POWER... YHVH!

Were the Stars created (in part) to give light on the Earth? YES...

Is that foundation enough to determine this to be their sole purpose for existence? NO!

Maybe it is their sole purpose for the earth, but NOT for other worlds which certainly exist in the INFINITE cosmos...

YHVH names EACHStar... that is how INTIMATE and IMPORTANT they are to Him... (Ps 147:4)

And WE cannot even SEE their total number for they are INNUMERABLE, let alone be graced by the LIGHT of their totality!

GOD did NOT say that the ONLY PURPOSE for the STARS is to give LIGHT on the earth, it is listed as their purpose for the EARTH, ...but nothing is said of their PURPOSE elsewhere in the Heavens...

Just as the oceans serve MUCH MORE PURPOSE than to just wash off the rocks by the seashore...

Noting life to be solely upon earth, is done with the same visionless method NASA uses, when it sends a probe to a celestial body such as the Moon, or Mars, and when it lands, has a maximum visionary scope of 20 miles, and then the same type of Brainiacs that come up with evolution, determine that they know all about MILLIONS of square miles of the planet or moon, upon which the probe landed... please...

We haven't a CLUE as to the COMPLETE purposes that ALMIGHTY GOD has implemented throughout His Creation...

We can only stand on this "speck of dust" called earth, and gaze in AWE, at His handiwork... which would further PRAISE Him if LIFE is truly present THROUGHOUT that Universe we are unable to observe up close...

It is best that we should stand upon this "speck" in deep Humility of the MAJESTIC Universe that YHVH has created, ...rather than arrogantly deciding that His VAST and INFINITE Universe serves no other purpose than to bring "light upon the earth"... FORUS!

...how many years of diligent thought did this conclusion accumulate from?

It took me as long as it takes to read these words, a second or so...

Gen 1:14 And God430 said,559 Let there be1961 lights3974 in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to divide914, 996 the day3117 from996 the night;3915 and let them be1961 for signs,226 and for seasons,4150 and for days,3117 and years:8141 Gen 1:15 And let them be1961 for lights3974 in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to give light215 upon5921 the earth:776 and it was1961 so.3651

Gen 1:16 And God430 made6213 (853) two8147 great1419 lights;3974 (853) the greater1419 light3974 to rule4475 the day,3117 and the lesser6996 light3974 to rule4475 the night:3915 he made the stars3556 also. Gen 1:17 And God430 set5414 them in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to give light215 upon5921 the earth,776 Gen 1:18 And to rule4910 over the day3117 and over the night,3915 and to divide914, 996 the light216 from996 the darkness:2822 and God430 saw7200 that3588 it was good.2896

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It is best that we should stand upon this "speck" in deep Humility of the MAJESTIC Universe that YHVH has created...,

I do. It is his great love for us that is humbling, not the majesty of the universe that he created for us in a day.

When we've been here ten thousand years...bright shining as the sun.We've no less days to sing God's praise...then when we've first begun.

They were created for light on the earth and the earth for us, over which we were given dominion.

The crowning glory of His creation was not the stars in the sky--it was Adam.

2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"beholding as in a glass"

G2734κατοπτρίζομαιkatoptrizomaikat-op-trid'-zom-aheeMiddle voice from a compound of G2596 and a derivative of G3700 (compare G2072); to mirror oneself, that is, to see reflected (figuratively): - behold as in a glass.

They were created for light on the earth and the earth for us, over which we were given dominion.

The crowning glory of His creation was not the stars in the sky--it was Adam.

2 Corinthians 3:18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

"beholding as in a glass"

G2734κατοπτρίζομαιkatoptrizomaikat-op-trid'-zom-aheeMiddle voice from a compound of G2596 and a derivative of G3700 (compare G2072); to mirror oneself, that is, to see reflected (figuratively): - behold as in a glass.

More hoo-ha that does not prove a point...

What does the word GLASS have to do with the PURPOSE of the Heavens and Stars?

The crowing glory on Earth... actually was EVE which completed His Work, Molly...

Paul Hazelwood

They were created for light on the earth and the earth for us, over which we were given dominion.

First, Gods love is so great, so vast, so incredible that there is plenty, not only "for us" but for any other creatures that may exist elsewhere.

You are adding the "for us" to scripture to give an exclusive nature to Gods love only to us with the assumption that no other planet in existance could have life.

This is a safe assumption on your part because of the odds of finding that life during your lifetime. But one needs to reserve for possibility and not assume scripture says things it does not say.

We can assume God loves us because he says so. But in context with creating the heavens and the earth(translated more accuratly "expanse" or land or world" there is no mention that it was for us.

Putting us in charge, is a duty, we are in charge here, because we are here and this is our perspective. Would we be given the right to rule over another planet and all it's occupants if there was one found?

Or would we see that our fellow intelligent brethren on another world were co habitants in dominion in the metaphor the bible really is?

He's the one who creates everything, and then and only then, creates Adam.

He's the one who creates the stars to give light on the earth--for whom? Do you think for the termites? or the reptiles? Maybe for the one created in his image? Can the reptiles read the signs and seasons from the heavenly bodies? Were the termites given dominion? Do they care whether it's a week or a month or a year?

There is nothing in the Bible that implies that there is any life on any other planet or star anywhere in the universe. Did God just happen to leave that out so that Isaac Asimov could make millions speculating?

All he can do is give you the gift--if you won't accept it--it's your loss.

Gen 1:14 And God430 said,559 Let there be1961 lights3974 in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to divide914, 996 the day3117 from996 the night;3915 and let them be1961 for signs,226 and for seasons,4150 and for days,3117 and years:8141 Gen 1:15 And let them be1961 for lights3974 in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to give light215 upon5921 the earth:776 and it was1961 so.3651

Gen 1:16 And God430 made6213 (853) two8147 great1419 lights;3974 (853) the greater1419 light3974 to rule4475 the day,3117 and the lesser6996 light3974 to rule4475 the night:3915 he made the stars3556 also. Gen 1:17 And God430 set5414 them in the firmament7549 of the heaven8064 to give light215 upon5921 the earth,776 Gen 1:18 And to rule4910 over the day3117 and over the night,3915 and to divide914, 996 the light216 from996 the darkness:2822 and God430 saw7200 that3588 it was good.2896

Glad you put so much thought into your answer... It appears you do this most times...

Quoting every number of every word gives you some sort of confidence eh? ...Whatever floats your boat...

I have noticed that you only do this when convenient... and am still waiting on you to post the UNBIBLICAL words you use to support your beliefs, and avoid when asked...

All this useless quotation doesn't make your point Molly, that the ONLY PURPOSE of the Stars and Heavens is "FOR US"...

Quote from: willieH

It is best that we should stand upon this "speck" in deep Humility of the MAJESTIC Universe that YHVH has created...,

I do. It is his great love for us that is humbling, not the majesty of the universe that he created for us in a day.

ALL that He DOES is worthy of GLORY and MAJESTY Molly... and are products of HIS LOVE... not just "FOR US" ...but for the ENTIRE CREATION... with which we SHARE this life...

His MAJESTY is found in a bumble bee or a frog... or in a cloud which rains, or bolt of lightning... even in an ant which (you probably step on without thought) creating a complicated domicile cooperatively with innumerable others, ...all just beyond your sight...

His "Great LOVE" is found in ALL the facets of His creation which blesses us... and that blessing is not just "FOR US"... It extends to the details, for He blesses the Bee, that blesses the Flower, that blesses us with HONEY... and in this, all YOU see is the Honey, making it about YOURSELF...

Missing the beautiful and Holy process that HE created in the "honeys" manifestation... Which gives the flower the ingredients, that the bee takes (leaving blessings upon the flower we do not even know) and with its God-given and MAJESTICLY MYSTERIOUS talent, produces sweet honey, which helps its community, and ...LASTLY blesses Molly's toast in the morning...

GENERALIZING His LOVE, and reducing it to YOURSELF only... instead of thanking Him for ALL which you do not even understand... such as the complete PURPOSE for the Stars or for Bees or for Ants...

Making the Stars (and all His Creation) about YOURSELF, instead of giving Him praise for whatever INTRICATE operation they might be a part of, which lies just beyond your pitiful ONESECOND devotional...

Missing the beautiful and Holy process that HE created in the "honeys" manifestation... Which gives the flower the ingredients, that the bee takes (leaving blessings upon the flower we do not even know) and with its God-given and MAJESTICLY MYSTERIOUS talent, produces sweet honey, which helps its community, and ...LASTLY blesses Molly's toast in the morning...

With God, if it seems too good to be true, it's probably true.

11 For he will command his angels concerning you to guard you in all your ways; 12 they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

There is nothing in the Bible that implies that there is any life on any other planet or star anywhere in the universe.

That there is nothing in the Bible that implies this does not prove that there is NOT life elsewhere! There is nothing in the Bible about '55 Chevy's either, does that mean that they do NOT exist either Molly?

The guitar is not mentioned in the Bible Molly, is it too a figment of our imagination?

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Did God just happen to leave that out so that Isaac Asimov could make millions speculating?

Don't even GO there Molly... ...what of Pat Robertson, Hal Lindsay, Paul Crouch, Oral Roberts and the many other FILTHY rich preachers which SPECULATE daily on the things of GOD...

At least Isaac Azimov is not making his bucks at the expense of FALSIFYING the GOSPEL!

Are you to condemn the MUSIC and MOTION PICTURE industries next Molly? Who do you WORK for? Are they making MONEY? ...maybe MILLIONS off of the talents GOD gave them? Some of which, via your paycheck, feeds your face...

Allhe can do is give you the gift--if you won't accept it--it's your loss.

Now you limit GOD, I guess this was inevitable...

ALL He can DO is give me a gift? And then HIS MIGHT is then trumped in that giving, due to my indescretions? Are you serious?

Please... You present less than a challenge, Molly...

(Eph 1:11) It is HE that is working ALL THINGS after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL, ...not mine, and obviously, ...not yours...

Any use of any GIFT that HE shall give, is ultimately under HIS control in HIS creation, and is manifest to GLORIFY HIM, not me, ...for HE declared (with HIS WORDS) The END from the BEGINNING, and ALL that was NOT, as if it WAS, Molly (Is 46:10-11)

If I appear to "lose" in your observation, that is YOUR observation, not mine, and not HIS... for, before I ever entered life, He had already DECLARED that "loss" would occur... and His WORDS always STAND, never to be compromised...

For a person which obviously does much study, are sorrowfully uneducated about what you profess...