He was a Ku Klux Klan organizer, after all, and they were local leaders of the NAACP, historic enemies. They spent months negotiating the terms of his visit to Casper. There were ground rules, topics to be discussed and guarantees of a security team.

They wait in a small, low-ceiling conference room in the Parkway Plaza hotel. Four NAACP leaders. Ten mints, striped red and white, sit clustered on the table. The pitchers of ice water on the table drip sweat.

“Showtime,” a security man says. He’s here.

A security check, swipes with a metal-detecting wand, and he steps into the room.

Here is John Abarr, an organizer for the United Klans of America, carrying a brown briefcase, shaking hands, settling into a high-backed swivel chair, leaning in, ready to talk. This could be the first time representatives of the two groups purposely met in peace.

Keisha Simmons, the secretary of the Casper branch of the NAACP, pours the Klansman a plastic foam cup of water.

A security man locks the wooden conference room door.

* * *

Jimmy Simmons, the president of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People’s branch in Casper, didn’t expect to get a return letter from the KKK.

For months he had been hearing reports that black men in Gillette were getting beat up. Inevitably the men were with white women when assaulted. Then Klan literature showed up around town. Simmons considered rallying against the Klan, but then decided to try something different: talking.

“If you want to talk about hate, get a hater,” Simmons said later. “Let him tell you something about hate.”

He looked up some contact information and in June, asked for a meeting with the KKK.

Simmons wouldn’t get specific, but it seems the NAACP headquarters wasn’t pleased he planned to talk to the Klan. He eventually got the go-ahead, provided the meeting took place in Casper, Simmons’ turf. A moderator from Colorado planned to come, but then she broke off contact.

The Casper NAACP would meet with the Klan alone, in the person of John Abarr.

Now here was Abarr, not dressed in his Klan regalia – the white hood and robe, the history of hateful violence – but in a dark suit, white shirt and a nondescript tie, his hand extended toward Simmons.

“Hello, John.”

“Hello Jimmy.”

* * *

Abarr makes a point of proving he’s a member of anti-racism groups. Membership: American Civil Liberties Union, the hate-group watchdog Southern Poverty Law Center, and oh, yes — also the United Klans of America, an organization with a website image gallery that includes a target with an Obama campaign symbol bull’s-eye.

Then there’s the desire to secede from the United States of America. The northwest U.S. — Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon — should secede and form a territory. Blacks can stay there, he supposes, but no more should be allowed in, to keep the region white. States such as Georgia, which are primarily black, should secede from the union and become a black state.

A question from the NAACP: How do you plan to secede from the union?

“Legally, hopefully,” Abarr says.

The meeting was to be a give-and-take on race relations, but the NAACP leaders asked most of the questions.

A certain amount of segregation is a good thing, he says. White police should stay in white neighborhoods and black officers in black neighborhoods. Color-blindness doesn’t even make sense. Interracial marriage? No. It’s better if the races are kept separate. Completely opposed.

“Because we want white babies,” he says.

The line hangs in the air. Next question.

* * *

Beatings of black men in Gillette? Those are hate crimes, Abarr agrees. Something must be done. Talk to the police. His tone is clear: Who would think of doing such a thing? Just terrible.

There are a lot of Klan groups. The movement is fractured, with groups splintering on goals and methods. Yes, the Klan may be distributing flyers in the area, but that’s not illegal, he points out.

He describes how his Klansmen in Montana distribute literature: The paper goes in a baggie weighted with a rock, and is thrown onto people’s driveways.

His group’s flyers let people know the Klan is serving as a neighborhood watch, to let folks know they’re safe in their beds.

“I like it because you wear robes, and get out and light crosses, and have secret handshakes,” he says. “I like being in the Klan — I sort of like it that people think I’m some sort of outlaw.”

His laugh rattles like a slow roll over a highway rumble strip.

* * *

Hate-driven violence may still occur, but those perpetrators are hoodlums, he says. There’s no proof that’s Klan violence, Abarr says. There was certainly violence in the past, but even with the splintered KKK, there’s no proof the Klan is violent any more.

“You’re really confusing me, because I don’t think you understand the seriousness of your group,” says the NAACP’s Mel Hamilton.

The disbelief in the room is palpable.

“I think what Mel is saying, is that based on your history, based on the Klan’s history, it’s hard to shed the skin of your group not being violent, not being killers, murderers, terrorizers,” Simmons says. “It’s hard to imagine that.”

During the Reconstruction, those things did go on, Abarr says. The Reconstruction Era covered the period between the mid-1860s and mid-1870s. But what about the wave of Klan lynchings in the 1920s to 1940s, for example? Well, Abarr doesn’t know much about that.

“I just know what it is today,” he says. “I had relatives in the Klan in the ’20s and they didn’t lynch anybody.”

Hamilton shoots back: “As far as you know.”

His relatives quit the Klan because someone wanted them to kill somebody, Abarr says.

The Klan is a secret society, and Abarr won’t discuss how it’s evolved or what it does. It’s a canned answer. Abarr reads it in a rush, from a piece of paper.

Not good enough.

“You tell us what you want, and you maintain the secrecy of injustice,” Hamilton says. “But you’re here, we’re trying to do something good, and you are half-stepping on us. You’re not serious about this, I don’t think.”

* * *

After he’s pressed, Abarr says he holds the Klan rank of kleagle, an organizer, in Great Falls. He says he’s seen a rush of recruits due to the presidency of Barack Obama — mostly men in their 20s and 30s, angry, violent and ready for action.

“What I like to do is recruit really radical kids, then calm them down after they join,” he says. Sometimes recruits will decide Abarr’s Klan isn’t hateful enough and go somewhere else.

As long as recruits look white and think white, that’s good enough for Abarr, even though some potential recruits have “confessed” to him they’re quarter Mexican.

He’d like to recruit cops, due to their training and so they could check someone’s identification for him, but he admits he hasn’t had any success. He doesn’t believe there’s any Klan group active in Casper, or none that he’s heard of.

What does he do to get recruits? Hamilton asks. Some kind of slogan? There’s got to be some sort of brainwashing taking place.

“Well, we usually just meet at a restaurant.”

* * *

Abarr was born in Sheridan, graduated high school in Torrington, and lived several other places in Wyoming. “It was just me and two skinheads,” he says of his time as a white supremacist in Casper. He had family in the Klan, and was something of a revolutionary himself when he joined at age 18, and wanted to overthrow the government, he says. His father was a cowboy.

He married a liberal woman, he says, and his kids were raised as liberals. They can choose their own path.

He believes homosexuality is largely genetic, but still a sin. Gay marriage is fine. Polygamy should be legal also. Marriage isn’t the government’s business.

Abarr lost a Republican primary for a local race in 2002, and considered a run for Congress from Montana in 2011, but dropped out when a lack of funding and a lot of outrage pushed him to reconsider his plans. Then, he billed himself as an ex-KKK member.

“There you go again. You’re a chameleon, whatever suits you at the time,” Hamilton says.

“Well, I was between Klans at the time,” Abarr says.

* * *

The United Klans of America imperial wizard, Bradley Jenkins, was excited Abarr was meeting with the NAACP and had to overrule some on his imperial council who were opposed.

“He lives in Alabama, and he told me he would love to sit down with the NAACP in Alabama and talk,” Abarr says.

We believe in treating everyone equally, like the Klan would want others to treat its members, Abarr says. In March, Jenkins worked to stop a massive KKK rally in Memphis, decried hate and called those participating in the rally fake Klan groups. This from the head of a Klan group infamous for the horrific violence and death it rained down on blacks and supporters in prior decades, including the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church in Birmingham, Ala., in 1963, killing four young girls.

A few days after the news broke about Jenkins working to stop the KKK rally, Abarr defended his leader’s actions via Twitter via his account @Thehoodedone33. Yet with bad grammar, and using a slur the Star-Tribune is masking, he also tweets: “There are way to many N-----s in Montana especially here in Great Falls. Also there are a lot of Indians.”

Says he won’t have a group when he gets back, could face excommunication.

“People are going to call me names for coming down here,” he said. “You know, I might not even have a group when I get back.”

* * *

The meeting’s winding down, and Hamilton’s not buying Abarr’s presentation of his Klan as a non-violent Christian group focused on political issues. He’s not buying that Abarr’s Klan is a kindlier, friendlier KKK, and his disbelief slams into the air like a pounding gavel.

“It’s obvious you don’t know the history of your organization,” he says. “It’s obvious to me that you’re not going out and talking about the good — you’re not talking about inclusion, you’re talking about exclusion. And it’s obvious to me you don’t know what you are.

“So I don’t know what good this dialogue has done tonight.”

It certainly hasn’t resulted in the white supremacist believing his secession idea doesn’t hold merit. Or weakening his position in interracial relationships. Or ignorance of decades of Klan terror.

“It’s obvious we don’t agree on everything,” Abarr says.

Hamilton is disappointed: “I’d love to shake your hand tonight and truly believe that you have good will towards all people, and I can’t seem to come to that point.”

* * *

It seemed like a stunt. Will the Klansman join the NAACP? A white supremacist, a known enemy?

Simmons asks: Would you like to join?

Abarr doesn’t hesitate: “I wouldn’t have a problem with joining the NAACP.”

“Wow,” Simmons says, pulling out an application. Abarr fills it out, checks his watch for the data. Adds a $20 donation to the $30 membership fee. Simmons gives him a receipt.

They stand.

“We’ll have to do this again sometime,” Abarr says. “Or maybe not. I don’t know. We’ll have to keep in contact for sure, though.”

He snaps his briefcase shut, pumps hands with Simmons to the snap of a camera.

Whisked away by security, he strides down the long motel hall.

This made feel happy and very confused at the same time.

2

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

There was a Klan rally in Augusta two years ago where the Klan was protesting for civil rights (gay marriage, maybe?), and I've heard and read about the Klan protesting against hate groups such as the Westboro Baptist Church, so there may be some merit to Abarr's claims. On the whole, however, I'm unsure of what to make of this; it seems like no one really told anyone anything. Certainly, I was more confused after I read this than I was before.

I once had an argument with one of my friends regarding the fact that I believed that the KKK was no longer a hate group. I've never known anyone who has been a member, but I'm familiar with most of their political positions, and I find myself agreeing with surprisingly a lot of them, such as this, "He believes homosexuality is largely genetic, but still a sin. Gay marriage is fine. Polygamy should be legal also. Marriage isn’t the government’s business." Some of their racial views are still pretty out there, and although I don't agree with them, I can understand their idea that, "Hey it's obvious that these two groups of people don't like each other, so maybe they should go their separate ways and keep their distance from each other." They recognize the racial tensions in this country same as we do, they just have very unconventional means of "solving" those problems.

Their agenda is really more xenophobic than it is hateful. They don't want to avoid blacks (and other races) simply because they hate them; rather, they just want to cut themselves off from people with cultural differences, and want to live in communities with very like-minded people. They're definitely very close-minded, but I would disagree that they are hateful.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Their agenda is really more xenophobic than it is hateful. They don't want to avoid blacks (and other races) simply because they hate them; rather, they just want to cut themselves off from people with cultural differences, and want to live in communities with very like-minded people. They're definitely very close-minded, but I would disagree that they are hateful.

By far one of the dumbest things I read on this site.

6

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Their agenda is really more xenophobic than it is hateful. They don't want to avoid blacks (and other races) simply because they hate them; rather, they just want to cut themselves off from people with cultural differences, and want to live in communities with very like-minded people. They're definitely very close-minded, but I would disagree that they are hateful.

Close-mindedness and inability to accept that which is different from themselves is definitely going to promote hate, whether that is their current agenda or not.

2

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Their agenda is really more xenophobic than it is hateful. They don't want to avoid blacks (and other races) simply because they hate them; rather, they just want to cut themselves off from people with cultural differences, and want to live in communities with very like-minded people. They're definitely very close-minded, but I would disagree that they are hateful.

the group literally has a history of lynching and hate crimes against anyone they don't consider "white" and you're arguing that they aren't hateful and just "close minded"? like i cant even tell if you're trolling or not because even if you are this is the dumbest post i have ever read on this site. i don't give a shit if they're "close minded" or "xenophobic", they believe in fucking white supremacy. the whole idea of them not wanting to be around anyone non WASP is beyond "close minded". its racism and the whole belief system of the KKK is literally white supremacy. you can't remove white supremacy from the KKK. a fucking thread could be on stormfront about supporting gay marriage and i wouldn't give a shit because it's fucking stormfront you purposely obtuse piece of shit.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

lol allen homosexuality isn't genetic, it has everything to do with the hormones the fetus gets in utero at different stages of development. also lol @ saying the kkk isn't a hate group. i thought you were one of the smarter people on this board :/

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

Their agenda is really more xenophobic than it is hateful. They don't want to avoid blacks (and other races) simply because they hate them; rather, they just want to cut themselves off from people with cultural differences, and want to live in communities with very like-minded people. They're definitely very close-minded, but I would disagree that they are hateful.

I get what you mean, but I gotta disagree with you. They are still a white-supremacist organization with a history of violence.

I honestly think that, if they thought they could get away with more violence, they would.

Share this post

Link to post

Share on other sites

yea i shouldnt have said "everything" to do with hormones. its genetic, hormonal, and environmental. but the types and amounts of hormones as well as during which stages of development the fetus is exposed to them have a much bigger influence than a lot of people seem to be aware of. and of course, those hormones are affected by genetics and the environment as well.

i can understand (and agree with) the motivation of wanting to halt the idea that orientation is a choice, and to try to "protect" homosexuals from what you might call "blame" from conservatives, but i dont like the perpetuation of the idea of a "gay gene" which is an extreme oversimplification of an inference drawn from one study

The problem isn't whether or not it's a choice: people who care about that question are people looking for a way to justify oppression, bigotry, et al.

If it turns out there IS a "gay gene," you can EASILY expect some people to adopt a new sort of eugenics and try to eliminate that gene. The only thing the "is it a choice" question can do is "change the battlefield on which we fight for our rights" - it doesn't guarantee us victory at all.

Our goal should not be "make it impossible to ostracize it because it is inborn." Something being inborn doesn't prevent one fucking iota of ostracizing.

Our goal should be the removal of the right to ostracize, which is a much more radical goal.