Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!

I was in the same situation as you a week ago and this is how I made my choice.

I was going to watch most likely 95% Bluray so everything related to video scaling.. no good for me and I can always use a really very good external video scaler.

For the 120hz (smooth video) I can't support and I hate changing the original image. even my girlfriend who's not a very video tech can't support the soap tv show effect. so a BIG no for me. 24P video was enough for me.

the 1000$ less was a big plus for me because I need to buy an audio system, Screen and repaint the room etc..

Image Quality.. well in general there's not a big difference between both projector.. expect for the black.. but I can watch blueray on my 4 year LCD TV with 10000:1 contrast and I still really enjoy the image so I think I can leave with 36000:1 I'm not too picky for black.. as long as it black enough to be black I'm fine.. so again a personal opinion

I ended up buying the 8100 and I'm still waiting for it should arrive tomorrow.. after I will post screenshot and tweak the image like most people do.

Good shopping !.. The screen is harder to shop than the projector.. I'm still on it..

Good question, I guess I like the Epson's warranty and solid rep. I also was not sure if the FL difference b/t the Mitsubish HC1500 and Epson was really comparable with the differences in resolution and contrast. Anyone with either Epson in a similar situation?

Can't find any light cannons...would have to mount the Epson 8100 about 1.5' closer to my screen to get the 42 FL measurement. Howver there are also "best" and "Brightest" modes on projectors offering brighter outputs making it difficult to discern brightness between projectors. After some reading it would seem the Mitsubishi HC3800 would be brightest in the "best" mode...however I do not know what the FL measurement is while in its "best" mode.. head starting to spin...!

Can't find any light cannons...would have to mount the Epson 8100 about 1.5' closer to my screen to get the 42 FL measurement. Howver there are also "best" and "Brightest" modes on projectors offering brighter outputs making it difficult to discern brightness between projectors. After some reading it would seem the Mitsubishi HC3800 would be brightest in the "best" mode...however I do not know what the FL measurement is while in its "best" mode.. head starting to spin...!

I used the carlton projector calculator and it gave me 55 FL with you using the Mits 3800 if it were outputting 950 lumen's.That was at a minimum of 12.5 ft from the screen(1.1 gain). maximum output is stated at 1142 lumen's equals 66.1 FL.
None of this is an exact science...your Mits 1500 is around 1600 lumen's in brightest mode if I'm not mistaken.

I went back in and input the Benq W1000 in its brightest best mode and got 69.5 FL..I then entered its brightest mode and came up with 126.2 FL.

Great info thanks! Where can I download the carlton projector calculator?? Better yet anyway you can give me the FL's for the Epson 8100, 8500 and m old Mits 1500 in their resepctive " best" and "Brightest" viewing modes? I have an 80" diag Screen Research ClearPix2 screen and the projecotrs would be mounted 9.5' back from it.

Great info thanks! Where can I download the carlton projector calculator?? Better yet anyway you can give me the FL's for the Epson 8100, 8500 and m old Mits 1500 in their resepctive " best" and "Brightest" viewing modes? I have an 80" diag Screen Research ClearPix2 screen and the projecotrs would be mounted 9.5' back from it.

The calculator won't let me change the throw distance. It goes by the screen dimensions.

At the same throw distances as the others the 8100 is 26.7 Fl in best mode. At brightest mode it comes in at 74.6 FL.

The 8500 is 28.8 FL in best mode and 75.8 FL in brightest mode at the same distance as the others.

Safe to say the FL will increase on them all with you moving the projectors up 3 feet from 12.5 Ft.

Unless you go with the likes of the Vivitek or BenQ..there's nothing 1080P out there that can match your Mits in lumen's output with in the price range.

The Mits 1500 in Best mode high lamp comes in at 70.5 FL in brightest mode a whopping 105.6 FL!

Fantastic info and very prompt. Thanks! Are you referring to the BenQ W6000 and which Vivitek? Yes, trying to come in under $2000...seems like the 8100/8500 offer the brightest picture in that price range....with the Mits HC3800 close behind and Panny 4000 quite a bit behind.

Fantastic info and very prompt. Thanks! Are you referring to the BenQ W6000 and which Vivitek? Yes, trying to come in under $2000...seems like the 8100/8500 offer the brightest picture in that price range....with the Mits HC3800 close behind and Panny 4000 quite a bit behind.

If you are trying to get the brightest picture, you need a High Power / High Gain screen. This is a great screen even if you don't need the extra brightness, but it will do a lot more for reducing ambient light effects then just upgrading your projector. You can get a 92" one for around $300, or a 106" for about $400.

BTW, the hc3800 is the best picture quality wise dollar-for-dollar by far (and it comes with an extra free lamp), so the real cost is about $1,000, but DLP's with high offsets cannot properly be paired with a High Power screen.

Therefore, out of those choices, my recommendation would be the Epson 8100 or 8500ub paired with a High Power screen. You're going to get a way better image with ambient light if you change your screen. Keep in mind that the Epson 8500ub commonly has issues but the Customer service is easy to deal with to get a replacement, but that said you may have to return it a couple times to Epson until you get a perfect unit.

The 8500ub is worth the extra money if you have the extra $1000 to waste. If you want to save some money, wait until next year's models come out in about 4-6 months and you can often get the previous generation a few hundred cheaper (sometimes even less).

I want to say something very CRUCIAL here, in your setup the 8500ub is PROBABLY not worth the extra $1000, because of the ambient light. The 8500ub has higher contrast but with ambient light this is going to be washed out some, but especially the darker blacks.

BTW, with the high power screen, it will easily double your brightness on any projector and by using the Epson 8100 with a high power, it should look as bright as a TV if you do it right, you will have no problems with ambient light.

Thanks Coderguy. I definitely get the screen gain issue but am locked into my Screen Research due to its acoustic transparency as well as the amount I invested in it. My HC1500 was fairly washed out during the day on high lamp mode with Dynamic picture engaged. I had to blow out the contrast and brightness to make it viewable....looked horrible but good enough for the 30% of viewing we do during these hours...after 7pm it is ON! I assume unless I get some crazy high gain light rejecting screen (am looking at a few but too $$ right now) no projector would look great in my family room during the day. Pulled the trigger on the 8500UB and we shall see how it goes! Thanks for your input....prior to any further projector purchases I will be looking at a new screen.

The first image he posted on the left had good convergenece, but some of the other images shows that on one of his Epsons he had it was relatively bad convergence.

You should only be able to see about half a pixel to a full pixel of color shading around text or so if you have a unit with really good convergence. On 1080p projectors, it's harder to see the pixels individually, but there are other test patterns you can use as well.

Walk right up to the test pattern as if you are almost about to kiss the screen and see if you can tell about how many pixels the red glow takes up. Also check for green or other glows around other parts of the test pattern. After that, throw up some different color text and make sure there is no color fringing of colors. Sometimes there can be other colors of fringing around colored text and people forget to check this since they are just looking for color around white text.

Anyways, I wouldn't fret over it if you didn't get a good unit on the first try, most people don't.

THanks guys. Can't get the thing to display anything at the moment! I will get back regarding the convergence.

Also here is the wavy red line issue (from pics I took last night) I am suffering from. Was not sure if maybe the projector was just not compatible with my Screen Research Clear Pix2 woven fabric. This happens with any viewing source over HDMI and with any HDMI cable. It does not go away with power cycling:

The quality control ranks right up there with the Mits 3800..both unacceptable too me!

The hc3800 has fixed the shutdown issue and a good deal of people get a good unit on the first try, being that is a DLP convergence is not usually the problem. The Epson quality control is far worse than the hc3800, even though the hc3800 has its issues, but only a couple people ever RMA'd more than once compared to the Epson which people average 2-3 RMA's.

Your screen material has nothing to do with that. I would call Epson today and get some use out of that customer service... you're going to need it my friend.

Why fuss with it? Get them to send you another.

Good to hear that the screen is not the issue. Calling customer service now. Will update the thread with my results!

Quote:

The hc3800 has fixed the shutdown issue and a good deal of people get a good unit on the first try, being that is a DLP convergence is not usually the problem. The Epson quality control is far worse than the hc3800, even though the hc3800 has its issues, but only a couple people ever RMA'd more than once compared to the Epson which people average 2-3 RMA's.

sounds like all PJ's (at least the 3k and under crowd) have their respective issues. I had a Mistubishi HC1500U for 3 years and loved the PQ. Had to have the color wheel replaced 3 times and had some dust blob issues. Got rid of it and upgraded to the 8500UB hoping to avoid such hassles! Cannot afford to drop 3k +on a PJ right now.

UPDATE: talked with APS @ EPSON and they are sending me a replacement unit. They have this "wavy red line" issue logged into their database as having occurred before in other cases. The new units have supposedly been repaired of this problem. We shall see. I guess I also need to be concerned about the other semi-inherent issues with this PJ...convergence, auto iris noise, fan noise, loose lens shift rings and focus issues! My current projector does not seem to be suffering from any of those issues.

Look at it this way, once you get a good unit, you should have the best overall PQ for under 4K for any LCD projector, at least as far as I can find. You'll have to fire it up and watch some space scenes, that is where the EPSON really kicks butt.

The convergence is the main issue with the Epsons, although other issues can occur - they are not as common.

I think to beat the Epson PQ you'd have to move up to the JVC RS-10, but even that is questionable on if it really beats it overall. I've seen a JVC RS20, and yah it's amazing at dark scenes, but it still lacks sharpness and a tiny bit of POP compared to DLP, so it's not the best thing in the world like some people think.

Sounds good! How can I verify how good my convergence is? I went right up to the screen and you can see that it is not perfect but how can I tell how many pixels it is off?

Outside of the wavy red lines I am happy with the Epson 8500UB. First impressions:

- I can watch it during the daytime hours in my family room with all the shades open and sun blaring in without any viewability problems (of course dark scenes do suffer a bit). The 8500 is WAY brighter than my Mits HC1500 ever was in its brightest setting and does not blow out the whites to death to get that bright. I am using the LIVING ROOM color mode for daytime viewing with very few tweaks to the default settings (I upped Super Resolution).

- For night time viewing I have the color mode set to THX and am currently using Another Dad's settings and am happy so far. It really does pop at night.

- Been tinkering with the Frame Interpolation for viewing television programming (no movies) and am enjoying it set to the "Low" setting. I have never had FI (or 120, 240 or 600 Mhz TV's) so it takes some getting used to. Not sure if 4:4 would benefit any television programming (I know Anthony Bourdain's stuff is shot at 1080P/24fps but do not think it is broadcast as such)

- For watching film I am not fond of the frame interpolation and have it off. Also not quite sure if I like 4:4 enabled or not. I used the cable DVR and PS3 for watching films and not sure when 4:4 would be beneficial or not. I do have the PS3's 1080p/24FPS enabled but not sure how enabling 4:4 compliments that.

- Just programmed the Epson remote commands into my NEVO remote system and it is working like a charm....starts up and shuts down way faster than the Mits HC1500

- Fan is a tad quieter than my Mitsubishi in both ECO and NORMAL lamp modes.

Isn't there a PATTERN button on the Epson remote or something like that?

There are better test patterns on test discs, such as from Spears & Munsil blu-ray test disc (probably about $30 on Amazon).
You can also download some test patterns from this Forum, but I don't remember which thread had the link to them.