Location: Lost in the Sands of Time. My footprints scattered by the winds, trying to find my way home.The journey is tiresome. Perhaps there is hope just over the next hill. I will be Vigilant..I will be Victorious...Or I will be Vanquished. No surrender.

Posts: 1,641

Re: Adolf-Hitler-nuclear-arsenal-found

Skogkille,

You are correct. The lithium should have been used in conjunction with uranium. My research showed none was found.

However, I surmised that it must have been hidden in another location (matched by what was found hidden here perhaps) for purposes of safety and security. However, your answer makes more sense.

My point was that the use of lithium wasn't just an extension from heavy water to lithium experiments, but a more advanced method of the detonation procedure (their argument assumed that because they found lithium isotopes they were on the wrong track).

Gas boosting... "Boost" nuclear weaponry. It is not the weaponry itself. ....Deuterium-tritium fusion neutrons are extremely energetic, seven times more energetic than an average fission neutron, which makes them much more likely to be captured in the fissile material and lead to fission.

To clarify better...When they found the Lithium they did not just find "some lithium experiments"....what they found was a superior detonating device for nuclear weaponry (they did not understand what they found). Meaning they only found half of the equation....there must have been uranium someplace else.

This is off the subject, but what the Germans were achieving in the 40's was decades more advanced than anything we had come up with. They were not only doing this with the bomb and rocket research, they were doing advanced research in almost every field of science.

People do not seem to understand just how much our science is destroyed by Jewish interference with our education and science fields.

What is being done today in medicine, physics, chemistry, astrophysics and almost every field of science is "quackery" compared to what the Germans were achieving.

Left intact, the National Socialist would have discovered more in two decades than we have discovered in 80 years.

I am not sure whether it was here or another site, but someone stated the Germans were on the wrong track with the atomic bomb because they were working with lithium rather than uranium.

I pointed out that Lithium was a more superior technology in nuclear weaponry.

The Germans were NOT on the wrong track.

No, Lithium is not effective in creating a chain reaction, due to the resources demanded.

Quote:

Rutherford [atom-splitting pioneer] realized that the energy released from the split lithium atoms was enormous, but he also realized that the energy needed for the accelerator, and its essential inefficiency in splitting atoms in this fashion, made the project an impossibility as a practical source of energy (accelerator-induced fission of light elements remains too inefficient to be used in this way, even today).

This was after his student discovered so after his students' experiment:

Quote:

...Walton and John Cockcroft collaborated to build an apparatus that split the nuclei of lithium atoms by bombarding them with a stream of protons accelerated ... The splitting of the lithium nuclei produced helium nuclei [a less complicated element with a charge]

Even in the early days of experimentation, we discovered that splitting a Lithium atom was more problem than it was worth, because doing so only gives useless helium. Rather, splitting a Uranium atom produces what we know as nuclear fission due to the structure of the element.

Also, a side topic to talk about is the half-life of elements. This is the rate in which an element decays. The rate in which Lithium decays is about 24 hours. The rate in which Uranium is roughly two and a half billion years. This is why we were so worried about nuclear war, the atmosphere, and even banned CFC products to protect the atmosphere and prevent the world from being almost permanently irradiated.

Location: Lost in the Sands of Time. My footprints scattered by the winds, trying to find my way home.The journey is tiresome. Perhaps there is hope just over the next hill. I will be Vigilant..I will be Victorious...Or I will be Vanquished. No surrender.

Posts: 1,641

Re: Adolf-Hitler-nuclear-arsenal-found

I have poorly worded my first statement.

I did not mean to imply that lithium alone was used to make a nuclear weapon. The person I was contradicting in the argument thought they were trying to do this, thus they were on the wrong track.

I was trying to explain (and poorly did so) that when they found the lithium it was not for lithium "only" experiments. The lithium was used as a superior detonation device for the uranium. (not a superior weapon in itself, but a detonation device that was to be used in a superior weapon)

Thus, there had to be some uranium stashed someplace else. Please note that in both articles I originally posted there is a uranium core within the lithium device.

The latter article "Gas Boosting" has been proven to work, (uranium 233 is extremely heavy so a marble size of 11 cm should indeed be 15 kg). But fact is they had the materials needed for Gas Boosting of nuclear weaponry if uranium was found.

I was explaining that the hidden stash of uranium would confirm what I had stated in a previous argument (which I could not locate the argument as it was some time ago).

That being, that the Lithium was not being tested for a nuclear device by itself, but had already been designed for "gas boosting" of nuclear weaponry (using uranium ....so there had to be a uranium stash "someplace").

This stash would confirm what I believed to be true. That the Germans, not only had the capability of the nuclear bomb, but had a superior detonating device that could boost the power of the bomb as much as seven fold!

The evidence I presented indicates they already had a bomb much more superior than the one used at Hiroshima.

With the verbal mastery the Jew will take credit for everything that isn't nailed down to a lineage of facts though which is why there are a disturbing number of Jew Nobel laureates and how Einstein's fraud was perpetrated.

Also says volumes that they also discussed using a "dirty bomb" out of the material.

Location: Lost in the Sands of Time. My footprints scattered by the winds, trying to find my way home.The journey is tiresome. Perhaps there is hope just over the next hill. I will be Vigilant..I will be Victorious...Or I will be Vanquished. No surrender.

Posts: 1,641

Re: Adolf-Hitler-nuclear-arsenal-found

If the Germans had concentrated uranium isotopes (such as 233, 235 or 238) and this lithium detonation cone.

Then they essentially had the bomb.

However, their use of lithium-6 in this detonation system says more to me than they had a simple detonation device.

A fission bomb, called the primary, produces a flood of radiation including a large number of neutrons. This radiation impinges on the thermonuclear portion of the bomb, known as the secondary. The secondary consists largely of lithium deuteride. The neutrons react with the lithium in this chemical compound, producing tritium and helium.This reaction produces the tritium on the spot, so there is no need to include tritium in the bomb itself. In the extreme heat which exists in the bomb, the tritium fuses with the deuterium in the lithium deuteride. The Hydrogen Bomb: The Basics | Nuclear Fusion | Science | atomicarchive.com

Perhaps I am way off base, admittedly this is not my field. If so, someone please explain how it would not be possible with what they were working on.

It seems odd to me that they would use lithium-6 and deuteride as a simple exploding device considering its possibilities.

Refer to the book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes. He wrote another one which I think is about the first fusion weapons and the race between the West and the Soviet Union to achieve nuclear hegemony. Also recommended is a visit to the Atomic Bomb Museum in Albuquerque N.M.

Anyhoh Germans (Heisenberg) were working on it.

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:

Lack of knowledge of what exactly constituted critical mass. Originally this was unknown within several orders of magnitude.

Lack of a sufficiently large industrial plant. The United States was the only world power with the physical capability of isolating Uranium 235 from U-238.

Lack of scientific leadership. The scientific community under the MAnhattan Project was a Who's Who of leading physicists, chemists, engineers, who were dedicated to one thing.

Lack of Money. The U.S. gave billions of dollars to this project. Nazi Germany did not establish any project even close in priority. That goes for Japan, as well.

Lack of Uranium. The United States obtained not quite a monopoly on Uranium, but certainly a majority of high quality supply.

Lack of atomic reactor moderator. The two moderators are very pure carbon,

and heavy water. The Allies spent a lot of money both purifying carbon for the first nuclear reactor at the University of Chicago, and denying heavy water to the Germans by means of successful secret missions in Norway. Check out the movie "Heroes of Telemark" from which you will learn absolutely nothing. Suffice it to say that English commandoes died and Norwegian commandoes succeeded in wrecking the heavy water generators at Vermorsk.

As the Allies invaded Germany they sent special squad in specifically to find European scientists and see how far along they were. They learned that the Germans were nowhere near achieving more than rudimentary steps toward a nuclear device, let alone a weapon. Without a budget, Heisenberg had led an effort to create a reactor in a cave with hanging blocks of uranium separated by air. It was too primitive to get anywhere.

At the close of the war, the Allies also put a lot of captured German scientists together and recorded them as they learned of the first successful use of the Atomic Bomb over Japan. They were poleaxed.

Everything you’ve said would be applauded in ANY other forum. But, for whatever reason, you opted to treat Stormfront readers to more of the same tired old Anglo-American propaganda twistory parroted by credulous, duped halfwits. Here are folk who swim against the tide of Matrix thought, who have learnt to view everything we are told with scepticism, to think for ourselves. Are you lost?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

Germans (Heisenberg) were working on it.
...The Germans were hampered by several degrees: Lack of scientific leadership. The scientific community under the Manhattan Project was a Who's Who of leading physicists, chemists, engineers, who were dedicated to one thing.

Professor Oppenheimer is acknowledged as one of a community. By contrast Professor Heisenberg is the only scientist acknowledged to have been working on the German atom bomb—apparently because the names of no others are known. Let us not fall into the trap of assuming that no more than one scientist actively worked, or led the work on, the German atom bomb, simply because that is what we have been spoon fed. My post #10 includes a link to a post where I identified 59—itself an incomplete list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
Lack of knowledge of what exactly constituted critical mass. Originally this was unknown within several orders of magnitude.

Funny thing about how science works. In the beginning stages of a new technology, precise parameters are unknown. As experimentation proceeds, scientists discover these. Whilst true that at one time, the Germans did not know what constituted criticality, the same could be said for the US programme—or any other scientific endeavour. But parsing out this fragment of time when they did not know something is facetiously applied to the German effort to misportray it as having never progressed past the beginning stage.

When Edison was developing his idea for a light bulb, he tested over 3,000 materials for filament durability. Who disregards his ultimate success, and concludes that, because there was a time before he found the best one, he was a failure?

Prof. Paul Harteck – assembled world’s first pile experiment in Jun 40 (he knew his consignment of 185kg of uranium oxide was incapable of criticality, and only measured diffusion lengths).

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
Lack of a sufficiently large industrial plant.

German industry managed to turn out battleships, super-artillery, the war’s heaviest tanks, the Atlantik Wall, U-boot pens, V-2 and V-3 launch facilities, bunkers beyond number, and massive flak towers, many of which survive today for being too massive to demolish. It managed to increase production in the face of Anglo-American bombing raids, and rapidly repair damage to infrastructure, railroad and industry. But in your opinion, Germany lacked a large industrial plant?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
The United States was the only world power with the physical capability of isolating Uranium 235 from U-238.

Dr. Wilhelm Groth – developed ultra-centrifuge utilising the difference of the masses of uranium-235 and -238, blueprints submitted Oct 41, prototype, tested Apr 42, exploded due to inferior alloy of drum, a later series of test runs in Aug yielded an enrichment of 3.9% (a satisfactory result, as 11% would suffice for a reactor to be built using ordinary water, a battery of ultra-centrifuges would free them from dependence on Norwegian deuterium).

In addition to the centrifuge mentioned above, my post #10 lists 13 other methods for the separation/enrichment of uranium which the Germans employed. Those who make posts without troubling to read previous ones may find themselves posting rank nonsense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
Lack of Uranium.

Facetious. The US having more uranium does not equate to Germany lacking uranium. In truth, the Germans had a supply of uranium ample for multiple experimentation projects to proceed simultaneously, and never encountered a situation where lack of uranium halted experimentation.

Dr. Kurt Diebner – built a pile of 2.5 tonnes powdered uranium oxide near end of 42; his team built a 2nd pile in cApr 43 employing 232kg of uranium metal cubes; his next 2 piles a few months later used 106 uranium cubes totalling 254kg, the larger pile used 240 uranium cubes totalling 564kg.

Prof. Paul Harteck – assembled world’s first pile experiment in Jun 40 (he knew his consignment of 185kg of uranium oxide was incapable of criticality, and only measured diffusion lengths).

Prof. Werner Heisenberg – assembled 3rd and 4th pile experiments in Dec 40 with von Weizsäcker and Wirtz using 6,800kg of uranium oxide; a Feb 42 pile was the first in the world that resulted in more neutrons escaping the surface than were injected by the neutron source, for an increase of about 13%.

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
Lack of atomic reactor moderator. The two moderators are very pure carbon and heavy water.

The wording implies that carbon/graphite and deuterium/heavy water are the only moderators. They are not. Carbon-dioxide, Parafin, liquid methane, liquid hydrogen, lithium-flouride/beryllium-flouride. I don’t suppose it is well known that ordinary water can be used as a moderator in conjunction with enriched unranium—my list in post #10 identifies methods by which the Germans enriched uranium. Modern atomic energy plants employing ordinary water, in fact, dwarf those employing alternate moderators. Not a serious problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

The Germans were hampered by several degrees:
The Allies ... denied heavy water to the Germans by means of successful secret missions in Norway ... wrecking the heavy water generators at Vermorsk.

1. The damage to the Vemork plant occurred in Feb 1943, but was repaired in Apr. Vemork and another plant at Rjukan were then destroyed in Nov 1943 by USAAF. The propaganda surrounding the SOE raid is way over-hyped.

2. Vemork was not the sole source of deuterium, the Germans had access to other hydrogen-electrolysis plants at Merano and Cotrone, Italia, and at least one in Germany (whose name I’ve forgotten (was it Leuna?), and cannot look up just now being hundreds of miles away from the Prof. Irving book my research is based on).

3. The interruption in the flow of prodigious quanitities of deuterium has always been latched onto by Anglo-American propaganda as the fatal blow to the German atom bomb project. It was not. The German atomic bomb project ran out of time from its own internal problems. A person can stumble of his own accord, and a bystander can claim to have pushed him.

4. The concentration of deuterium produced by the Norsk Hydro plants was only 0.5% and 1%, which would have required further refinement to be of use (if not in Norge, then elsewhere).

5. The quantity of deuterium produced by the Norsk Hydro plants was only a half tonne, insufficient for an atomic reactor. But this had no impact whatever on experimentation and bombs. The US Fat Man design employed Pu-239, derived from a reactor. But the Little Boy design used U-235, i.e., enriched from common U-238, specifically 140 lbs—a quantity the Germans possessed many times over, as shown above.

6. Aside from a uranium bomb, the Germans also had the ability to produce what is generally called a dirty bomb—i.e., a bomb that disperses radio-active fallout without atomic blast. Their Amerikabomber and A-10 projects had the capability of delivering such devices to Washington, New York or any other Allied capital/major city. The fact that they did not is misconstrued by the ill-educated as proof they lacked the capability. If the Führer were half the evil madman that fevered twistory portrays him as, how to explain this restraint, together with the manifold worse nerve agents (tabun, sarin) the Germans could have employed, which the Allies could not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

As the Allies invaded Germany they sent special squad in specifically to find European scientists and see how far along they were.

The Anglo-American operations in respect to German science/technology/intelligence/&tc was not to ‘see how far along they were,’ but to abduct and use them to work on Allied projects.
Operation Paperclip
Operation Overcast
Operation Apple Pie
Operation Eclipse
Operation Safe Haven
Operation Alsos
Operation Big
Operation Backfire
Operation Lusty
Operation Surgeon
Operation Seahorse
Special Mission V2
Field Information Agency, Technical (FIAT)
JCS (Joint Chiefs of Staff) Directive 1067/14
National Interest/Project 63

Such a prodigious dedication of manpower and resources, alone, suggests the truth that the defeat of Germany was regarded by the Allies as a golden opportunity to pillage that nation for spoils of war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

They learned that the Germans were nowhere near achieving more than rudimentary steps toward a nuclear device, let alone a weapon.

So Anglo-American propaganda—intended to comfort the masses—has said. What is conveniently swept under the rug is the explanation for the scramble to capture German atomic scientists—supposedly only hapless oafs of no value. Is there anyone who believes that the Soviet atomic bomb was not a direct product of the Germans they captured?

Their colleagues were responsible for:

* the jet age (including the MiG-15 and Sabre aircraft that duelled over Korea and Israel, the XF-92, Soviet Sukoy series, Dassault Mystère, Vautour, and Mirage, DeHavilland Comet, the Argentine Pulque, and others. If the native-American Lockheed P-80/F-80 had been the only model to go against the MiG, they would have lost the air-war. All modern jets trace their lineage to the German in-line engine, not the English/Whittle radial design.)

* the new generation submarine (which both sides scrambled to copy and built fleets of; US Tang and Soviet Quebec class)

* The Northrop-Grumman B-2 Spirit bomber is not based on Lockheed’s/K. Johnson’s flying wing, but on the Horten brothers’ design.

* the assault rifle (that the Soviets armed the world with)

* the infra-red/night-vision search-light and machinegun/rifle scope

* the synthetic fuel chemistry

There are many others. Yet, somehow, we are to believe that when it came to atomics—which even Allied atomic scientists acknowledged that Germans led the way before the war—suddenly they were hapless oafs? Each man has a threshold beyond which his mind rejects rank nonsense, no matter how ‘official’ its source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by atomchance

Heisenberg had led an effort to create a reactor in a cave with hanging blocks of uranium separated by air. It was too primitive to get anywhere.

More facetiously phrased remarks intended to mischaracterise the facts. Before the Anglo-American bombing effort got seriously underway in late 1943, the Germans had long since built atomic ractors in unsheltered facilities—typically university labs. It was only after the devastation wrought that the Reich reacted by constructing purpose-built bunkers, or refitting existing mines. Characterising these as caves is sheer propaganda.

a post-war Alsos scientist inspecting it in Jul 45 said, ‘I remembered the primitive set-up with which Enrico Fermi had started in a basement at Columbia University. By contrast, this Berlin lab, even empty, gave an impression of high-grade achievement.’

Dr. E. Fünfer – with Bothe, conducted small uranium and deuterium pile experiments, systematically varying the separation between layers, yielding the result in Oct 43 that the proportions of uranium to deuterium should be equal in weight.

Prof. W. Heisenberg – assembled 3rd and 4th pile experiments in Dec 40 with von Weizsäcker and Wirtz; a Feb 42 pile was the first in the world that resulted in more neutrons escaping the surface than were injected by the neutron source, for an increase of about 13%; weeks later in Jun, that pile developed a leak admitting air and water which reacted with the highly combustible uranium powder, eventually exploding and burning the Leipzig institute.

We have some old, old links and data we have to search back through to pull up, however....

There was definitive work of enriching thorium and allowing to degrade to uranium in germany or with german atomic research, as well as thorium (semi-nuclear) hydro-electric steam turbine power generation.

We'll get back to this with additions of aforementioned links, articles and data.