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Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

@shafagh

Considering many of them already left Madara's side and joined with Hashirama, considering even Madara stating how he belives there are none to avenge him and when the Hokage seat was open the Uchiha whent with Hashirama... Clear sign they would not really go nuts for no good reason and ensure thier clan get's anihilated... Way better to join with the Senju and have real power.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

Im not saying Tobi is a positive influence, i meant that the events leading to him cannot be matched by anything good that has happened. The whole "every action = equal reaction" stuff haha.

I seriously doubt that we will ever see Part I Naruto ever again, i mean, the Manga is getting wrapped up and unless Naruto has a personality disorder it wouldnt be a nice ending to have Naruto be like that (as epic as he used to be! )

We can hope for better character dev on Naruto i suppose, or the Manga to go longer than the war.

Well er, he did give Kakashi the Sharingan, which likely lead to everything that happened with Naruto and Sasuke. :x

I'm hoping Kishi just suddenly changes his mind and makes Naruto a mix of Part I and Pain Invasion arc Naruto again. Naruto could have been the best character after Itachi and Jiraiya's death, but that got messed up for some reason.

Kishi.

Originally Posted by Lighty

I think the question to be discussed should rather be weather Tobirama could've gone over his hatred towards Uchiha. We still don't know how Hashi died and when exatly Tobirama became the Second. But Tobiramas segregation might have caused the same uprising in the Uchiha clan even without Madara.

I think Tobirama did act as objective as possible. Rather than segregate the Uchiha and keep them away from power, he let them have political equality and gave them the role of police force when he could have had them killed.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

@M3J: Nevertheless they felt segregated - and thats what counts in the end. I think we can agree on that the Uchiha weren't happy with their status in the village which led to the coup and their slaughter. So Madaras death might have created another Madara, similar in strength and ability. Immagine Itachi being this kind of villian - the world would be in quite some danger.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

Originally Posted by M3J

I'm hoping Kishi just suddenly changes his mind and makes Naruto a mix of Part I and Pain Invasion arc Naruto again. Naruto could have been the best character after Itachi and Jiraiya's death, but that got messed up for some reason.

Okay, now I'm really curious. What happened to Naruto that made you feel so disappointed in him ? Did he really change that much from the Pain Invasion arc and on ?

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

Originally Posted by Lighty

@M3J: Nevertheless they felt segregated - and thats what counts in the end. I think we can agree on that the Uchiha weren't happy with their status in the village which led to the coup and their slaughter. So Madaras death might have created another Madara, similar in strength and ability. Immagine Itachi being this kind of villian - the world would be in quite some danger.

They did after Tobirama relocated them, but only a few realized what was going on but didn't do anything anyway. It wasn't until the elders took away their political equality after Kyuubi's attack that Uchiha planned a coup. Madara's death didn't create another Madara, as no Uchiha supported Madara until Tobirama came to power and made some decisions. And if there was another Madara similar to his power, then I doubt the Uchiha would have lost, or that Konoha wouldn't have been dominated by the Uchiha. Even the second and third Tsuchikage couldn't do anything to Madara, who was only rivaled by Hashirama. Any Uchiha with similar power would likely be unbeatable by anyone.

Itachi's major weakness was his chakra. It took a day of fighting, 24 hours if I recall, for Madara to drop down from exhaustion. I doubt Itachi could last about an hour or two in such intensive fight. If he and Madara were equal on the chakra thing though, I think Itachi would have been much better than Madara. His wisdom would also have put his enemies in danger.

Originally Posted by KingOfNight

Okay, now I'm really curious. What happened to Naruto that made you feel so disappointed in him ? Did he really change that much from the Pain Invasion arc and on ?

In my opinion, yes. Look at how he fought against Edo Nagato, and compare that with Pain, or any of his fight in Part I. Naruto wouldn't have forgotten an info like that. He's also regressed into a one dimensional character, being all "FRIENDSHIP IS POWER! ME WANT PEACE!" At least, he repeats that far too much, along with Tobi's nonsense.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

@M3J: Yeah, i agree on most things you said but: With the death of Madara by time his death might have been misinterpreted. Madara could've made into a matyr by some Uchihas. Their hatred might have pushed them somewhere where they'd be a danger for the village. I mean, the sole reason why Itachi told Sasuke to hate him was eventually to activate the amazing power that is resting inside him. Thats how "easy" it was to create a strong character among the Uchiha.
Kishi sort of finally revealed the ultimate weakness of sharingan: IF you are blessed with its (full) power somethings gone damn wrong in your life.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

I doubt the Uchiha saw Madara as a martyr, only few probably did after Tobirama segregated them. Most probably saw Madara as the reason why they were segregated or vilified by Tobirama and the powers that be.

It was never that easy. Even with Sharingan and hatred, Sasuke wasn't strong enough. He still had to train hard to get the powers he had and has, whether with Kakashi or with Orochimaru. He hated Itachi but couldn't even land a finger on Itachi when they met in Part I again. It's not really as simple as people like to think it is. We even saw Madara and Izuna train hard to get the power they have.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

The Uchiha would need to be brain dead to not side with Hashirama. What would you take:

1-Anihilation.
2-Become part of an alliance that would make you more powerfull then ever.

Only Madara in his hate and pain (losing his bros) could not accept this. I mean the Uchiha voted for Hashirama... They all wanted peace... Some even left Madara's side...

No way the Uchiha would have continued to fight. I mean why a matyr? He was ofered peace over and over, he had a fair fight with Hashirama a man of honor, respect, integrity and so on... Even Madara was ok to die by his hand...

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

To paraphrase a certain quote:

"No Madara, no problem!"

This should've been the Senju's motto, which I'm sure would be taken by everyone else as well, seeing that even the Uchiha booted that psychopath out. Pretty much your list is accurate, but once again, if Hashirama would've killed him earlier, or allowed Tobirama to do it, the manga would make far, FAR TOO MUCH SENSE by Kishi's standards.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

Originally Posted by IChallengeYou!

To paraphrase a certain quote:

"No Madara, no problem!"

This should've been the Senju's motto, which I'm sure would be taken by everyone else as well, seeing that even the Uchiha booted that psychopath out. Pretty much your list is accurate, but once again, if Hashirama would've killed him earlier, or allowed Tobirama to do it, the manga would make far, FAR TOO MUCH SENSE by Kishi's standards.

Naruto is not a manga about sense or logic, it's about the contrary.

I always thought Bleach had the illogical part covered, seems Naruto demolished the boundary between logic and utter Cabageness.

Re: Biggest mistake a character has ever done in this manga?

The Uchiha would need to be brain dead to not side with Hashirama. What would you take:

1-Anihilation.
2-Become part of an alliance that would make you more powerfull then ever.

Only Madara in his hate and pain (losing his bros) could not accept this. I mean the Uchiha voted for Hashirama... They all wanted peace... Some even left Madara's side...

No way the Uchiha would have continued to fight. I mean why a matyr? He was ofered peace over and over, he had a fair fight with Hashirama a man of honor, respect, integrity and so on... Even Madara was ok to die by his hand...

The problem is the message Konoha (Madara / Hashirama) did send to the rest of the world.
The message was:

"Two equal strong clans, joined forces for the sake of peace, and builded a well functioning city, that helped a lot of problems."

If the Senju took the Uchida in and made a city with them through sheer force (They lost the war when Madara was beaten), then that would send a totally different message.
The message would never reach all the good and ideas it had, if they lost the war in the first place. Because then they were forced rather than doing it willingly.

This is the whole problem, this is why Hashirama needed Madara, cause Madara was seen as his equal, and thereby keeping the Senju and Uchiha seen equal to the rest of the world.

Had they not been seen equal, the message to the world would have been different and not as positive, it might not have had an impact at all to cause other villages to be build.