why can't the largest, most funded tennis organization in the world not able to produce world class professionals, but only produce at the expence of it's the members, players for american colleges. think about it, all the money spent to train, coach, house, even send to european countries to train on clay not able to produce professionals like france, spain, russia, even japan not to memtion all the eastern european countries. solution, copy the french and spanairds, they know what their doing!!!

TennisCoachFLA

08-01-2009, 08:24 PM

why can't the largest, most funded tennis organization in the world not able to produce world class professionals, but only produce at the expence of it's the members, players for american colleges. think about it, all the money spent to train, coach, house, even send to european countries to train on clay not able to produce professionals like france, spain, russia, even japan not to memtion all the eastern european countries. solution, copy the french and spanairds, they know what their doing!!!

Hey, I am a big USTA critic but there are also other factors. When French kids are interviewed about their most popular sports they list 1. Football (soccer) 2. tennis 3. handball

When kids in Spain are asked its football (soccer), 2. basketball 3. Tennis

Russia? 1. Football (soccer) 2. Hockey 3. tennis

So many of the best athletic kids are playing tennis. Or they are great soccer players who move into tennis. Federer, Nadal, Henin all played soccer at high levels as kids.

In the US, tennis is far, far down the list of popular sports. Football, basketball, baseball, softball, volleyball, rugby, field hockey, ice hockey and on and on and on take the kids first, not tennis. Not to mention the obesity rate of US kids is high, more video games, etc. We have a small pool of fit athletic kids to choose from

The USTA, even if well run, has a much, much harder job getting lots of great and fit kid athletes into tennis in the first place than most other countries.

So to copy Spain and France we would first have to get rid of about 10 more popular sports to get tennis into the top 2 or 3. Then make our kids hungrier and less spoiled. Than we get our best, hardest working athletes into tennis. Then build 1000s of red clay courts.

Then we could hammer the USTA for not producing pro champs.

papatenis

08-01-2009, 09:24 PM

though tennis in america is not as popular as it is in other countries, we have more recreational plays than most other countries. (i think there are 30 million rec. players in america) i think the major problem is the usta does not grow the game at the grass roots level. create a larger base of players. we are losing public/private courts everyday. socal in the 70's has so many public courts that are now condo's, shopping center, etc., usta needs to preserve what courts are left, and create better programs to get more kids into tennis. where did sampras, chang and the williams sisters not mention many more come from, public courts. usta does not develop jrs, that i understand, but to think that they can is absurd. leave the developing to others, just concentrate on growing the game. the big thing now at usta jr. development is to promote play on clay. here in socal there are no public clay courts. only thing we have close to public clay courts are at the carson center. side note, two years ago, my child got into the nat'l clay courts in florida. i asked the scta if she could practice at the carson center for the nat'l clay courts, they said no, and faxed me list of private clay courts that i could use for a fee.
i understand that usta is spending 100 million over the next 10 years to open training centers across america to develp juniors. give 1 million to each section to create clay courts within their sections. simple solution
i have two kids in jr. tennis, it is very difficult to keep them in tournaments, lessons, transportation, hotels etc. now we have local tournament entry fees at 40-45 for singles, 20-25 per player in doubles. i and my kids love tennis and we will make sacrifices to keep play tennis.

SoCal10s

08-01-2009, 09:45 PM

I see your frustrations.. it's hard to compete in tennis tournaments in SoCal with the cost of everything escalating and good tennis coaches aren't cheap to come by.. you're competing and trying to beat those higher ranked kids and doing your best, then you find out that they have an unfair advantage of getting a free ride from the USTA.. the one thing that gets to me is how they use or mis-use the Carson facility.. it's like a private club for those hand picked kids and it is supposed to belong to USTA and I feel if you are a USTA member, you should be allowed to use that facility once in while.. maybe pay-for-pay or reservation system of some sort.. but it's closed to all except those "elite,player's development" .. I've seen some of those kids and some are legit and should be there ,but others who can go there are no better than average tournament players..

tennis-silver

08-02-2009, 07:39 AM

Not that I stand up alot for the USTA, but... in the past 2 years they have made some big changes. Its going to take 5 - 7 years before we see the effects of some of these changes. ( Maybe more.)
Its too soon to tell. Some of the changes aren't the best but I hear that there are more to come. Bottom line is - if you want your kid to be a high level college player or ultimately a Pro, you should not rely on anyone except yourself to make sure that your child gets what they need. If it includes some of the resources that the USTA has to offer - great. If not, get it elsewhere. I feel that another fault of America is that we are waiting for someone else to come up with answers.

TennisCoachFLA

08-02-2009, 09:09 AM

Not that I stand up alot for the USTA, but... in the past 2 years they have made some big changes. Its going to take 5 - 7 years before we see the effects of some of these changes. ( Maybe more.)
Its too soon to tell. Some of the changes aren't the best but I hear that there are more to come. Bottom line is - if you want your kid to be a high level college player or ultimately a Pro, you should not rely on anyone except yourself to make sure that your child gets what they need. If it includes some of the resources that the USTA has to offer - great. If not, get it elsewhere. I feel that another fault of America is that we are waiting for someone else to come up with answers.

Very true....many parents are delusional that the reason their kids are not making it is because of USTA support. The truth is their kids just are not that good.

A kid can learn tennis from a local on a crappy court and if the talent and hard work is there, they will be found by IMG or another talent scout. These scouts get videos all the time and look at them all.

That said, the USTA needs to provide great kid focused facilities all over the US and advertise the game, that should be their supporting role.

TennisCoachFLA

08-02-2009, 09:15 AM

though tennis in america is not as popular as it is in other countries, we have more recreational plays than most other countries. (i think there are 30 million rec. players in america) i think the major problem is the usta does not grow the game at the grass roots level. create a larger base of players. we are losing public/private courts everyday. socal in the 70's has so many public courts that are now condo's, shopping center, etc., usta needs to preserve what courts are left, and create better programs to get more kids into tennis. where did sampras, chang and the williams sisters not mention many more come from, public courts. usta does not develop jrs, that i understand, but to think that they can is absurd. leave the developing to others, just concentrate on growing the game. the big thing now at usta jr. development is to promote play on clay. here in socal there are no public clay courts. only thing we have close to public clay courts are at the carson center. side note, two years ago, my child got into the nat'l clay courts in florida. i asked the scta if she could practice at the carson center for the nat'l clay courts, they said no, and faxed me list of private clay courts that i could use for a fee.
i understand that usta is spending 100 million over the next 10 years to open training centers across america to develp juniors. give 1 million to each section to create clay courts within their sections. simple solution
i have two kids in jr. tennis, it is very difficult to keep them in tournaments, lessons, transportation, hotels etc. now we have local tournament entry fees at 40-45 for singles, 20-25 per player in doubles. i and my kids love tennis and we will make sacrifices to keep play tennis.

Exactly, the first order of business should be to build clay courts in every section. Keep them maintained and advertise them. Have some pros on hand to give lessons. Have very low or no fees for kids.

The parents and kids would find them. Like you say, the USTA should grow the game and the development will come from a lot of sources.

Just get tons of kids into tennis and give them great facilities. The true talents will emerge out of this huge pack over time.

Supporting a low number of kids with extreme amounts of money is not the solution.

TennisTaxi

08-02-2009, 10:52 AM

the big thing now at usta jr. development is to promote play on clay. here in socal there are no public clay courts. only thing we have close to public clay courts are at the carson center. side note, two years ago, my child got into the nat'l clay courts in florida. i asked the scta if she could practice at the carson center for the nat'l clay courts, they said no, and faxed me list of private clay courts that i could use for a fee.
i understand that usta is spending 100 million over the next 10 years to open training centers across america to develp juniors. give 1 million to each section to create clay courts within their sections. simple solution

When my son got into Clay Courts the first time a few years back when he was in the 12's, I was very "appreciative" of the fact that in the endorsement letter, the So Cal USTA was nice enough to print a list of clay courts that he may be able to use for practice...and I don't believe Carson was was of them...geezzz, he got into the tournament, even thought he is not a "USTA favorite", maybe they could have let him practice there, I didn't even think to ask...but now I know what the answer would have been.

Clay courts in So Cal are few and far between, that is why the kid's who are not "USTA favorite's" either do poorly or opt not to go to the Clay Court Nationals.

SoCal10s

08-02-2009, 01:38 PM

I don't know why everyone is jumping on this clay court bandwagon lately ... the outdoor cement court around SoCal never gets used and thus they sort of ,just rot away.,.,. so the city just does something more useful with the land-space.. so building clay courts is not the solution,where more maintenance is needed and upkeep cost is high.. the job for the USTA is to build more core base in the public eye so tennis becomes more popular as a sport it once was in the USA...

there's only 1 clay court super nats a year.. so why the need for so many clay court facilities ? and seeing the girls 18s finals ,both of those girls are from SoCal and clay court tennis is really not a regular thing for their practice routine,but they still did it..

TnsMan2

08-02-2009, 04:18 PM

When my son got into Clay Courts the first time a few years back when he was in the 12's, I was very "appreciative" of the fact that in the endorsement letter, the So Cal USTA was nice enough to print a list of clay courts that he may be able to use for practice...and I don't believe Carson was was of them...geezzz, he got into the tournament, even thought he is not a "USTA favorite", maybe they could have let him practice there, I didn't even think to ask...but now I know what the answer would have been.

Clay courts in So Cal are few and far between, that is why the kid's who are not "USTA favorite's" either do poorly or opt not to go to the Clay Court Nationals.

Drew Dawson did well on the the clay this year and he doesnt even play on them but took out all the kids who spent time in Spain learning from the Spanish coaches on red clay for a couple of months "Drew" proved all the theories wrong ,
1 Drew doesnt play on clay
2 Drew doesnt learn from Spanish coaches
3 Drew doesnt learn the Spanish style of teaching
4 Drew beat all the kids who did all the above
5 Thanx Drew for all the hard work you put in and making the finals of the clay court nationals and losing to a kid who also did none of the above !

My thought is if you want your child to succeed at tennis the best way to make it happen is do it yourself , it doesn't take much to teach this sport, a little studying and your child stands the best chance under your guidance. Training on the clay helps some but there's not much of a difference a court is a court and if you don't believe me get out a measuring tape and check there all the same size !

TennisCoachFLA

08-02-2009, 06:21 PM

I don't know why everyone is jumping on this clay court bandwagon lately ... the outdoor cement court around SoCal never gets used and thus they sort of ,just rot away.,.,. so the city just does something more useful with the land-space.. so building clay courts is not the solution,where more maintenance is needed and upkeep cost is high.. the job for the USTA is to build more core base in the public eye so tennis becomes more popular as a sport it once was in the USA...

there's only 1 clay court super nats a year.. so why the need for so many clay court facilities ? and seeing the girls 18s finals ,both of those girls are from SoCal and clay court tennis is really not a regular thing for their practice routine,but they still did it..

Clay courts build leg strength and point construction, thats why they help produce better players. The countries with the greatest percentage of top 100 players concentrate on clay courts as kids.

The USTA should indeed grow the sport, but must provide real red clay courts for the kids that show promise. The promising kids should play 6 months hard and 6 months clay.

It has to be a complete package, grow the game, support those with interest and promise, and have clay available in addition to the hards.

And the clay you are talking about is Har Tru, different than real red clay.

TnsMan2

08-02-2009, 09:07 PM

Clay courts build leg strength and point construction, thats why they help produce better players. The countries with the greatest percentage of top 100 players concentrate on clay courts as kids.

The USTA should indeed grow the sport, but must provide real red clay courts for the kids that show promise. The promising kids should play 6 months hard and 6 months clay.

It has to be a complete package, grow the game, support those with interest and promise, and have clay available in addition to the hards.

And the clay you are talking about is Har Tru, different than real red clay.

Drew Dawson did well on the the clay this year and he doesnt even play on them but took out all the kids who spent time in Spain learning from the Spanish coaches on red clay for a couple of months "Drew" proved all the theories wrong ,
1 Drew doesnt play on clay
2 Drew doesnt learn from Spanish coaches
3 Drew doesnt learn the Spanish style of teaching
4 Drew beat all the kids who did all the above
5 Thanx Drew for all the hard work you put in and making the finals of the clay court nationals and losing to a kid who also did none of the above !

its about the work ethic not the surface or the Spanish coaches or your skin color, the work ethic!!

ClarkC

08-03-2009, 05:49 AM

Drew Dawson did not beat international players who grew up on clay. He beat other American kids, a few of whom had a couple of months in Spain.

So, maybe this one anecdote proves that a couple of months (or less) in Spain as a 13 year old does not make a top junior player suddenly be a great clay court player. No surprise there.

To think that one player winning the Boys 14 Clay Court nationals proves something about player development is absurd. Proof by isolated anecdote is not too convincing.

10isplayer

08-03-2009, 06:31 AM

TnsMan2,

Drew Dawson did lose to a kid, Roy Lederman, who plays on clay often

papatenis

08-03-2009, 10:17 AM

tournament directors at all the profession tournaments have slowed down their courts. even grass courts have been made slower, so you get baseliners winning them. i hate to agree with the usta, but we need clay courts. some of you claim that we dont need them because at the recent nat'l clay courts, most of the winners who won have no clay court backgrounds, true but at the professional level who are the top players? they are from countries that play/train on clay. we need more american pros men/women in the top 10, but for that to happen, our juniors need to train on clay. the problem is the usta mandates juniors play clay, but there are no clay courts in the western united states, especially in socal, (mecca of tennis) solution is simple, now that land is cheap, build or convert courts into clay, or provide public/private tennis clubs with loans/grants to convert hard courts to clay courts.

flat

08-03-2009, 03:35 PM

tournament directors at all the profession tournaments have slowed down their courts. even grass courts have been made slower, so you get baseliners winning them. i hate to agree with the usta, but we need clay courts. some of you claim that we dont need them because at the recent nat'l clay courts, most of the winners who won have no clay court backgrounds, true but at the professional level who are the top players? they are from countries that play/train on clay. we need more american pros men/women in the top 10, but for that to happen, our juniors need to train on clay. the problem is the usta mandates juniors play clay, but there are no clay courts in the western united states, especially in socal, (mecca of tennis) solution is simple, now that land is cheap, build or convert courts into clay, or provide public/private tennis clubs with loans/grants to convert hard courts to clay courts.

The engineer in me says the easiest/cheapest solution, with almost the exact same results, would be to slow down the ball. Change the ball to a larger diameter with the same weight...

That's call optimizing the game for the majority of the courts in the world. Asking the world to build more clay courts is a extremely expensive proposition.

Anyways, I digress. I belong in a different thread somewhere else.

TennisCoachFLA

08-03-2009, 03:58 PM

Drew Dawson did well on the the clay this year and he doesnt even play on them but took out all the kids who spent time in Spain learning from the Spanish coaches on red clay for a couple of months "Drew" proved all the theories wrong ,
1 Drew doesnt play on clay
2 Drew doesnt learn from Spanish coaches
3 Drew doesnt learn the Spanish style of teaching
4 Drew beat all the kids who did all the above
5 Thanx Drew for all the hard work you put in and making the finals of the clay court nationals and losing to a kid who also did none of the above !

its about the work ethic not the surface or the Spanish coaches or your skin color, the work ethic!!

Sorry Brad...wrong again. I believe other posters have already pointed out many of your errors.

One tourney or player does not matter. The fact that clay court countries have a much higher % of top 100 players than the US. Work ethic is in the equation as you mentioned, along with red clay as kids.

TennisCoachFLA

08-03-2009, 04:01 PM

tournament directors at all the profession tournaments have slowed down their courts. even grass courts have been made slower, so you get baseliners winning them. i hate to agree with the usta, but we need clay courts. some of you claim that we dont need them because at the recent nat'l clay courts, most of the winners who won have no clay court backgrounds, true but at the professional level who are the top players? they are from countries that play/train on clay. we need more american pros men/women in the top 10, but for that to happen, our juniors need to train on clay. the problem is the usta mandates juniors play clay, but there are no clay courts in the western united states, especially in socal, (mecca of tennis) solution is simple, now that land is cheap, build or convert courts into clay, or provide public/private tennis clubs with loans/grants to convert hard courts to clay courts.

Great post and points. Clay as kids is a long term developmental advantage...from when they are 5-6 through the late teen years.

Unfortunately the 'clay' we refer to in the US is mostly Har Tru. The USTA needs to commit to real red clay right along side the hard courts.

We would need to see a generation of US kids play on red clay for 10 years before we would see results. Sending kids to Spain for the summer is silly.

TnsMan2

08-03-2009, 04:08 PM

TnsMan2,

Drew Dawson did lose to a kid, Roy Lederman, who plays on clay often

you are correct Led "plays alot" on hard- tru this is a fact i know personally , also i know Dawson never see the stuff but 2 to 5 days a year if hes lucky and the kid finals proves that it has nothing to do with the surface.

clay court same measurement as hard as grass , your either a player or not !

GATennisMom

08-03-2009, 07:27 PM

We dont have red clay courts in ATL - but my son plays on Har True about 25% of his time - is there any benefits from Har True that woudl be the same as on red clay. Is it easier for kids who have played on Har True to then transfer their games to red clay?