Im tired of Ls1 smack talking

There is no replacement for displacement is what it comes down to. The General's LS1 at 5.7L and a 6 speed tranny is hanging with Ford's 4.6L 5 speed. That tells you a lot right there... and what happens when Ford decides to use a 5.4L and a 6 speed? LS-Who?!

Founding Member

There is no replacement for displacement is what it comes down to. The General's LS1 at 5.7L and a 6 speed tranny is hanging with Ford's 4.6L 5 speed. That tells you a lot right there... and what happens when Ford decides to use a 5.4L and a 6 speed? LS-Who?!

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Umm the LS1 6 speed is not hanging with the 4.6L 5 speed?! The 4.6 is trying to hang, with the LS1.

I'm putting down 316rwhp, and that was while it was 100 degrees outside. I don't know what ur getting at? You're making alot more out of this than should be. I respect WS6's and LS1's, but when they think they are king sh*@, they are grossly mistaken. Even an STi or Evo with the right stuff will spank thier a@#. If you love LS1's and WS6's so much why do you have a stang?

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I'm putting down 316rwhp, and that was while it was 100 degrees outside. I don't know what ur getting at? You're making alot more out of this than should be. I respect WS6's and LS1's, but when they think they are king sh*@, they are grossly mistaken.

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That's great you are making that power with mods. Unfortunately they can make it bone stock. A few bucks in bolt ons, the LS1 can make 350+ rwhp. The point is the LS1 is king **** compared to a NA 4.6L. Whether you agree or not, the simple fact is mod for mod the LS1 wins when it is in a NA Form. Just because you can hang with a stock one means nothing. For everytime some Mustang owner says they hung with one or beat them, I know of a dozen or more LS1's that have beaten bolt on Cobras.

Even an STi or Evo with the right stuff will spank thier a@#.

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Your ignorance amazes me. Any car with the right mods and set up will spank any car. However, it takes money to make the STI fast and even that car has it's downfalls. I know a few STI's that are making 300-400 awhp and some are fast and some aren't. So what?!

If you love LS1's and WS6's so much why do you have a stang?

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Again, your ignorance shows, I like both Cobras and LS1's. That is why I own both cars, mod both cars and active in both communities. I have a different view because I have spent a lot of time with both cars and see the potential with both. Sorry I just call it how I see it.

This thread was a debate and a flame, but the fact is most Mustang owners have no idea how fast these cars are and that it doesn't take much to run 10's and dyno 450 rwhp NA. Sorry that Ford didn't have performance in their mind with the 96-01 4V.

That's great you are making that power with mods. Unfortunately they can make it bone stock. A few bucks in bolt ons, the LS1 can make 350+ rwhp. The point is the LS1 is king **** compared to a NA 4.6L. Whether you agree or not, the simple fact is mod for mod the LS1 wins when it is in a NA Form. Just because you can hang with a stock one means nothing. For everytime some Mustang owner says they hung with one or beat them, I know of a dozen or more LS1's that have beaten bolt on Cobras.

Your ignorance amazes me. Any car with the right mods and set up will spank any car. However, it takes money to make the STI fast and even that car has it's downfalls. I know a few STI's that are making 300-400 awhp and some are fast and some aren't. So what?!

Again, your ignorance shows, I like both Cobras and LS1's. That is why I own both cars, mod both cars and active in both communities. I have a different view because I have spent a lot of time with both cars and see the potential with both. Sorry I just call it how I see it.

This thread was a debate and a flame, but the fact is most Mustang owners have no idea how fast these cars are and that it doesn't take much to run 10's and dyno 450 rwhp NA. Sorry that Ford didn't have performance in their mind with the 96-01 4V.

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Why not just sell your mustang and keep your LS1 since they are so superior to a "COBRA". I will give you this, ford has to overcome the displacement issue but when u compare apples to apples the mustang is superior in many ways by far!

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Why not just sell your mustang and keep your LS1 since they are so superior to a "COBRA". I will give you this, ford has to overcome the displacement issue but when u compare apples to apples the mustang is superior in many ways by far!

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Another ignorant comment.

You think that because I comment that the LS1 has a better motor, that I truly must hate Mustangs Also where did i say they are superior? Oh wait, you are assuming, my bad.

I like them both, both and have had 3 Mustangs. Yes, they both have their good parts and bad parts.

That's great you are making that power with mods. Unfortunately they can make it bone stock. A few bucks in bolt ons, the LS1 can make 350+ rwhp. The point is the LS1 is king **** compared to a NA 4.6L. Whether you agree or not, the simple fact is mod for mod the LS1 wins when it is in a NA Form. Just because you can hang with a stock one means nothing. For everytime some Mustang owner says they hung with one or beat them, I know of a dozen or more LS1's that have beaten bolt on Cobras.

Your ignorance amazes me. Any car with the right mods and set up will spank any car. However, it takes money to make the STI fast and even that car has it's downfalls. I know a few STI's that are making 300-400 awhp and some are fast and some aren't. So what?!

Again, your ignorance shows, I like both Cobras and LS1's. That is why I own both cars, mod both cars and active in both communities. I have a different view because I have spent a lot of time with both cars and see the potential with both. Sorry I just call it how I see it.

This thread was a debate and a flame, but the fact is most Mustang owners have no idea how fast these cars are and that it doesn't take much to run 10's and dyno 450 rwhp NA. Sorry that Ford didn't have performance in their mind with the 96-01 4V.

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So I'm ignorant now? Wow your getting touchy! Have I hit a nerve? I've probably forgotten more about cars than you know. Quit crying about how bad Chevys are and just admit that your not comparing apples to apples. If I can hang with a 5.7 with a 4.6 how would I be if all stangs had the 2000 Cobra R 5.4's? They would spank the hell out of LS1's. And your ignorance is showing...... I autocross my car, not drag race. To me drag racing is boring, put an LS1 on an autocross track(which you "NEVER" see) and it's all over. But as far as arguing with you, I'm done, you can't intelligently converse with someone who is convinced of thier own mental superiority.
:Track:

Founding Member

Not at all. Your replies are biased and really make no sense. You are jumping around talking and sound like a chirping bird.

I've probably forgotten more about cars than you know.

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Well at my old age I do tend to forget things. Then again I am sure you should have know a 15" wheel will fit a stock 4V brake system, oh wait you didn't really know the answer to that thread did ya.

Quit crying about how bad Chevys are and just admit that your not comparing apples to apples.

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Hey why don't you read this thread and comprehend it. I am talking about the fact it is not apples to apples and they are different!!Have you bothered to ingest anything that has been said?! I have commented on how good the LS1 motor is over the 4.6L motor from 96-01 and how easy it is to make them produce numbers. Not how bad the chevy motor is. Tell me the last 4.6L motor to make 400+ rwhp with just bolt ons and cams, all else being stock? Oh wait, that is unheard of with a B headed Cobra and possible from a C headed cobra(I am sure you know these terms), unless you do a big bore kit with some head work involved.

If I can hang with a 5.7 with a 4.6 how would I be if all stangs had the 2000 Cobra R 5.4's? They would spank the hell out of LS1's.

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Like I have said, just because you have taken your modified cobra and hung with a stock LS1 doesn't mean much. In fact it is pretty hilarious. I can throw 3.73's and exhaust onto a that LS1 and the outcome would be different. Stop comparing Apples to oranges. Ironic I say that due to your above quote. The 00 Cobra R had what about 385 hp. Ok that would be more favorable for Mustangs being your 98-02 LS1 makes anywhere from 330-375 hp at the crank stock. Unfortunately that is what we call a what if. It never happened. I could easily say, well what if the F-Body had a 402 stroker from the factory??

And your ignorance is showing...... I autocross my car, not drag race. To me drag racing is boring, put an LS1 on an autocross track(which you "NEVER" see) and it's all over.

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This just gets better. What does you autocrossing your car have anything to do with the horsepower of the power plant in the F-Body and the 4.6 4v? Nothing! Then again you claim to have spent 10 grand for a kenny Brown suspension package and a roll cage to autocross, so that speaks volumes.

But as far as arguing with you, I'm done, you can't intelligently converse with someone who is convinced of their own mental superiority.
:Track:

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Wonderful. I can look forward to not seeing a reply from you that holds no actual experience or fact regarding both cars and motors. You can go on and still think because you hung with A stock LS1 and think that will be the case is fine. I have humbled plenty of 4V owners that thought they could hang with my LS1 that has little to no bolt ons. I will also continue to hang with LS1 owners with my Cobra as well because I love both cars, know and respect my competition well.

face it ls1's are better as far as yes they do everything you want your ford to do but would you own 1!
90 5.0 lx
90 5.0 gt
97 cobra
99 cobra
99 gt
dont get me wrong i have old chevys
69 chev truck
68 ss 396 elco
71 442 w30
yes i own all these no no one handed them to me and no i will proble never own an ls1 they coast way to much

I can't understand the argument here. The Cobra motor is certainly a better motor than the LS1, just not bigger or more powerful. Mod for mod, the LS1 will spank the Cobra. The Cobra responds better to forced induction, though, with it's four-valve heads and is probably a more versatile engine.

Either way, I would never challenge an LS1 motored car with my old '99 Cobra and expect to beat it. On the rare occaision that it did happen, it was due to some Bozo who couldn't drive his car worth a damn.

The '99/'01 Cobras were better all-around cars than the SS and WS6. Big Brembo brakes that wouldn't fade. A nice, high-revving motor and it could be modifed easier for different applications. And a cleaner look to boot.

As I stated before, the LS1 cars were very quick and real fast. It took Ford putting a forged, blown four-valve in the Cobra to finally knock it off it's perch.

Founding Member

I can't understand the argument here. The Cobra motor is certainly a better motor than the LS1, just not bigger or more powerful. Mod for mod, the LS1 will spank the Cobra. The Cobra responds better to forced induction, though, with it's four-valve heads and is probably a more versatile engine.

To me it is a better motor. It is a more modern, dual overhead cam engine. It puts out more horsepower per cubic inch and has the capability of higher rpm.

Does everything have to become an arguement here? Both my posts sided with you about the LS1 cars being quicker and faster than our '99/'01 Cobras, stock or with bolt-ons. I only favored the Cobra as a better balanced car with better brakes and, now that I think to mention it, a nice independent suspension for better road manners. Better seats starting in '01, also.

Once again, it takes some serious mods for the '99/'01 Cobras to run with the LS1 cars. Does it make the LS1 motor better? No, just bigger.

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To me it is a better motor. It is a more modern, dual overhead cam engine. It puts out more horsepower per cubic inch and has the capability of higher rpm.

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Ok so just because it is a DOHC and can rev higher makes it better? BTW, GM had a DOHC back in 1992 that made just as much if not more hp as the 03/04 Cobra's without a blower. So being that it puts out more hp per cubic inch, yet it makes less hp than the LS1 by 50 hp Come on man!

Does everything have to become an arguement here? Both my posts sided with you about the LS1 cars being quicker and faster than our '99/'01 Cobras, stock or with bolt-ons. I only favored the Cobra as a better balanced car with better brakes and, now that I think to mention it, a nice independent suspension for better road manners. Better seats starting in '01, also.

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This thread is an argument period. They all are. It doesn't have to be from me, granted I am non biased. I just wanted concrete proof, not opinions, that's all. Yes the Cobra may be a better car, but the debate is about the engine, not suspension or the seats.

However, you have still failed to tell me how a motor that has one of the best flowing stock heads on a small block V8 that help's produce 300-320 rwhp stock and the capability to make 475+ rwhp with bolt ons, heads and a cam, falls short to a 96-01 dohc that can't even hit the same hp marks mod for mod as a LS1.

Once again, it takes some serious mods for the '99/'01 Cobras to run with the LS1 cars. Does it make the LS1 motor better? No, just bigger.

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Sure it does. Bigger is better when it comes to naturally aspirated performance. Also the LS1 loves Nitrous and with a good build 800-1100 rwhp isn't hard to do on these LSx's either. I spent a lot more on my Cobra to make it faster than my LS1. The right mods also help, but it does take more $$. I have learned that with 3 Mustangs and 2 of them being 4V's.

Granted there are things I love about my Cobra that I hate in my LS1 and vice versa. But the pure fact that has remained since 1998-2002 is that the LS1 mod for mod in NA form will always out perform the 4V.

Again, I am not trying to argue, granted most Mustang guys think this and ironically most of the F-Body guys are more open to me educating them about mustangs, but purely I see both sides of the table. I am merely putting things into perspective because I haven't just raced just 1 car. I hang out with buddies that have 400-500 rwhp 4V's and fooling with buddies with 800-1000 rwhp LS1's. I have beaten LS1's with my cobra and lost to a lot. I have lost to a few Cobra's in my LS1 and beaten a lot. I see both sides.

I guess that if you want to comare apples to apples, size wise, the 5.4 Cobra R motor makes more power than the '99-'02 LS1, even though it is down about twenty cubes. Mod for mod, it will stay ahead of the LS1. If you shrunk the LS1 motor down to 281 cubes, I doubt that it would come close to the 4.6 DOHC.

I will make an analogy with a sport like boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Oscar Delahoya, Felix Trinidad and the like are better fighters than any of the current heavyweights. Could they beat the heavyweights in the ring? No. But they are better fighters. Tom Brady is a better athlete than some giant lineman, but he couldn't take one on straight-up at the line of scrimmage.

Once again, the LS1 cars are quicker and faster than the '99/'01 Cobras. They aren't quicker than the '03-'04 Cobras. Take off the artificial speed limiter and they aren't faster, either. Mod for mod, they aren't better.

Either way, I like the LS1 motor. The LS1 cars always gave the '99/'01 Cobras fits. But when compared to an equal sized DOHC motor, it falls short.

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I guess that if you want to comare apples to apples, size wise, the 5.4 Cobra R motor makes more power than the '99-'02 LS1, even though it is down about twenty cubes. Mod for mod, it will stay ahead of the LS1. If you shrunk the LS1 motor down to 281 cubes, I doubt that it would come close to the 4.6 DOHC.

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Here we go again.
Yes a 5.4 Cobra R makes 385 hp at the crank which is not far off an LS1(360-375 hp). Then again, It should make a lot of hp, that motor is built for one thing and one thing only, to race! Proof is in the pudding when you compare that motor verse a Navi motor 5.4 DOHC. The Navi makes a lot less hp and they both are 5.4L DOHC's. Heck, how about we compare the 95 Cobra R with a 351 pushrod. That was down on power verse an LS1. In fact it wasn't that much more powerful than the LT1 either. See, we can debate " what if's" all day but in the end, it is poitnless.

I will make an analogy with a sport like boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Oscar Delahoya, Felix Trinidad and the like are better fighters than any of the current heavyweights. Could they beat the heavyweights in the ring? No. But they are better fighters. Tom Brady is a better athlete than some giant lineman, but he couldn't take one on straight-up at the line of scrimmage.

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Again pointless. Mayweather and De La Hoya aren't even heavyweights. How can you compare that? This is about the LS1 vs 96-01 4V only. If you can't bring solid facts to the table to prove your claim, then don't come to the table. I see your point, but you just don't have the facts to prove why the 96-01 4V that makes so much less hp and can't keep up even mod for mod with the LS1 is better.

Once again, the LS1 cars are quicker and faster than the '99/'01 Cobras. They aren't quicker than the '03-'04 Cobras. Take off the artificial speed limiter and they aren't faster, either. Mod for mod, they aren't better.

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I never said anything that they were quicker than the 03+. I never said mod for mod they aren't. In fact I never even had the debate regarding the 03+.

Either way, I like the LS1 motor. The LS1 cars always gave the '99/'01 Cobras fits. But when compared to an equal sized DOHC motor, it falls short.

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Let's see a Navigator 5.4L DOHC which makes the same hp stock at the crank as the LS1 makes at the tires. I will admit if you work the navi heads w/ a good cam selection and all you can make some power, but stock vs stock the Navi 5.4L DOHC loses to the LS1 as well.

I love this!! The only valid arguement is his own. Don't bother guys, in the end he's wet for LS1's, and he won't let anyone win this arguement. I'm not even sure why he owns a Cobra, since they are so inferior. He will undoubtedly attempt to call me out again, but I won't respond since I don't feel like talking to a wall again. But if you feel led, by all means talk away to the wall.

Cobracruiser, the boxing analogy was dead on, I knew exactly what you meant.

Founding Member

Some of you don't even see my point nor understand. Usually if you make a claim you should back it up with facts, not your own opinions. That is ok, I am not trying to persuade you. Many people are receptive to that practice. FWIW I like my Cobra a lot more than my LS1. I just accept the facts when it comes down to engine vs engine. I also do this to the GM guys that also don't give the Mustang its due either. They just don't get as upset as the Mustang guys.

Mike- I thought you were done? I wouldn't have called you out if you didn't post though

Okay i think i know what everyone trying to say so i might try and add my two cents nothing personal but from what i know ls1 are nice car but a cobra for the same price you spent on the ls1 can be faster with mods but what the point of spending money when u can have a faster car that what i think nothing personal.

Why would you mention the Nav motor? We are comparing the high performance motors from Mustangs and the LS1 F-bodies. The Nav motor wasn't built for the 'Stangs, it was built to drag around a big, fat SUV. Different cams, timing, tune, etc. The '99/'01 Cobra motor puts out more power than the '99-'01Suburban motor, if you want to go that route. Hell, we could keep going all the way back to 289s and 283s or the Blue Flame Six. The topic here is high-output DOHC Mustang motors vs HO LS1 F-body motors

The fact is, when comparing motors of the same size and vintage, the 5.4 Cobra motor puts out more power than the LS1 F-body motor.