Do You Have Non-White Friends? Is it OK to Have Friends of Another Race?

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Let's not go in circles. I stated that having an integrated society and living an integrated life, i.e., having personal relationships with nonwhites, increases the probability of interracial romantic relationships. You create the strawman of an absolute and then call it a fallacy. When in fact the fundamental value of racial separation is this accepted truth: that an integrated society, or personal contact with other races, potentially leads to some degree of miscegenation. Thus it is beneficial to completely separate the races. It's contradictory for you to insist that we can all embrace nonwhites into our personal lives and homes without any threat of miscegenation, but then insist racial separation is necessary to ensure our survival.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

This is another example of the slippery slope fallacy:

The Slippery Slope Argument

This argument states that should one event occur, so will other harmful events. There is no proof made that the harmful events are caused by the first event.

Misused. There IS proof that harmful events (miscegenation) are caused by the first event (integration, a multiracial environment). Miscegenation has increased steadily over the years because of further integration and efforts to make whites have personal relationships with nonwhites and see them as equals.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

A.) I never suggested that I supported racially mixed societies.

Yet on a smaller level you support a racially mixed environment for individuals who have nonwhite friends.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

Once again, I don't see any contradiction between being a racist and having friends of other races.

You just think the act of having nonwhite children is an issue? Everything else that leads up to that point is irrelevant?

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

there are decent people within all races

eyes:

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

These people are entirely aware of our racial views, and in some cases, even share them.

Who are these people? They live in America? Your nonwhite friends in America think it's a great idea for them to leave and never be citizens? Well why don't they start now?

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

So what is the problem with that? Why should such individuals be held in lower regard than white, anti-racist, jew-worshipping, miscegenating scum?

You're a separatist who believes that having nonwhites friends is a great thing. No contradiction there? That's not exactly setting a good example is it?

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

There is no more equality within race than there is between races.

Point being? Is this your way of justifying your nonwhite relationships? Sounds like the anti-racist view that "there is more genetic diversity within races than between them" so race is meaningless.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I don't think we should operate on the materialist notion that individuals have innate value simply because they are white or they are Nordic. Being white or Nordic simply is not good enough, although that is a plus.

Sounds contradictory. Race does have innate value, that's the whole point. You said before that citizenship is based on race, thus it does have innate value. Is it the only value? - No. But, race is fundamental and has first priority. Otherwise we are starting to get into the debate of cognitive elitism vs racialism.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I made it clear earlier that I do not support racially mixed societies. So this is a moot issue.

But you support a racially mixed group of friends, which I find strange.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

Once again, in a separatist society Nordhammer, there would be no Negroes to bring home as friends.

Obviously not, but currently we are in a multiracial society, and you are supporting a multiracial group of friends as being a positive thing.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I support racial separatism because I am not convinced that our racial and cultural integrity can be maintained in an integrated environment.

Slippery Slope Fallacy. :p No, I agree with you of course. Human history, observations of the animal world, and statistics on racemixing prove this right.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

Once again, I am not following your logic here, as simply having friends of other races does not necessarily lead to romantic interracial relationships.

Neither does living in a multiracial environment necessarily lead to miscegenation. Thus you are defeating your own validity for racial separation.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

So let me get this straight. In your separatist society Nordhammer, there was still be contact between whites and nonwhites? What would you do? Make it illegal to have friends of other races? :p

There would be contact online and probably through tourism and such. Racemixing would possibly be a crime, as would giving birth to hybrids. It's probably impossible to completely eradicate it, but it wouldn't be a threat to our race and homeland as it is now.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

Do you consider yourself to be a protectionist, economically speaking?

To some degree, yes. Naturally soulless corporations exploiting our people wouldn't be tolerated.

I am not of the free market perspective myself. I would be in favour of working towards regional autarkies, for instance, an American-Canadian economic zone and a Western European economic zone. I call this 'regionalisation' as opposed to 'globalisation'.

>>>But you support a racially mixed group of friends, which I find strange.

Let me clarify myself. I do not see anything inherently wrong with interracial friendships. That is, I do not see anything wrong with them, in the abstract. I never suggested it was something that should be condemned or promoted, much less cultivated.

>>>You just think the act of having nonwhite children is an issue?

No. I said I had no problem with interracial friendships (of a non-sexual nature), that is, in the abstract.

>>>Everything else that leads up to that point is irrelevant?

The entire point of this discussion Nordhammer is having a friendship with a member of another race does not necessarily mean you will develop a romantic relationship with them. In some cases, yes, that happens, but it does not necessarily follow that interracial friendships turn into interracial romances. And as I pointed out before, this would be a moot issue anyway, as there would be no other races in a separatist society to begin with.

>>>Who are these people? They live in America? Your nonwhite friends in America think it's a great idea for them to leave and never be citizens? Well why don't they start now?

There are actually several Japanese guys here at my university doing graduate work. Like myself, they acknowledge the existence of racial differences. Indeed, in Japan, there is nothing controversial about this. It is simply common sense. They are here to study, not to become American citizens, much less assimilate into American culture. They stick with their own people outside of class. I have no problem getting along with such individuals.

>>>You're a separatist who believes that having nonwhites friends is a great thing. No contradiction there?

I am a separatist who does not see anything wrong, in the abstract, with having friends of different racial backgrounds. I don't see what is so controversial about this either. A few generations or so ago, this was the prevailing view.

>>>That's not exactly setting a good example is it?

I don't hate other races because they are other races, although there are racialists of that point of view. My problem stems from living in an integrated society which I desire to abolish. I would say this is setting a good example for racialists, actually.

>>>Point being?

All whites are not of equal value. Some are superior to others.

>>>Is this your way of justifying your nonwhite relationships?

No, I am just pointing out that that there are plenty of whites who are scum and these people are not inherently valuable simply because they are white. Eminem is white. What do I care about Eminem?

>>>Sounds like the anti-racist view that "there is more genetic diversity within races than between them" so race is meaningless.

Did I make that argument, Nordhammer? No, I did not. I simply argued that there is plenty of scum within the white race and that I hold upstanding men and women of other races in higher regard than I do white degenerates.

>>>Sounds contradictory.

There is nothing contradictory about my argument. I reject equality. That means I reject equality within race just as much as I do the notion that equal exists between races.

>>>Race does have innate value, that's the whole point.

I must have forgotten to mention that I do not believe in inherent value. So race does not possess any inherent value. It is something we give value.

>>>You said before that citizenship is based on race, thus it does have innate value.

In my view, citizenship should be based on race, but not because race has inherent value, but because I have given it value on the basis of my own values.

>>> Is it the only value? - No. But, race is fundamental and has first priority.

This is your own set of personal values.

>>>Otherwise we are starting to get into the debate of cognitive elitism vs racialism.

Not really. I do not justify my racialism on the basis of racial differences in intelligence, although there are again some racialists who do that.

>>>Obviously not, but currently we are in a multiracial society, and you are supporting a multiracial group of friends as being a positive thing.

You are misinterpreting me. Throughout this debate, it has been my argument that:

1.) There is nothing inherently wrong with having interracial friendships (of a non-sexual nature), that is, in the abstract.
2.) I support racial separatism.
3.) Once separatism is achieved, then I have no objection to cultivating friendships (again, non-sexual) with people of other races. I cited the business relationship earlier as an example of this.

>>>There would be contact online and probably through tourism and such. Racemixing would possibly be a crime, as would giving birth to hybrids. It's probably impossible to completely eradicate it, but it wouldn't be a threat to our race and homeland as it is now.

You really didn't answer my question here. In your racialist state, what would the status of interracial friendships be? Would you make it a crime to have a friend of another race? :p

>>>Misused. There IS proof that harmful events (miscegenation) are caused by the first event (integration, a multiracial environment). Miscegenation has increased steadily over the years because of further integration and efforts to make whites have personal relationships with nonwhites and see them as equals.

You said earlier you rejected such determinism and that was not your argument. Has this changed?

>>>Let's not go in circles. I stated that having an integrated society and living an integrated life, i.e., having personal relationships with nonwhites, increases the probability of interracial romantic relationships.

The issue that is being disputed here is whether or not such friendships necessarily lead to romantic relations.

>>>You create the strawman of an absolute and then call it a fallacy.

You argued earlier that having interracial friendships led to interracial romance. I said that was not necessarily so, that it is illogical to make such an argument, as that is clearly a case of the slippery slope fallacy. Now you have retreated to probability, which is something altogether different.

>>>When in fact the fundamental value of racial separation is this accepted truth: that an integrated society, or personal contact with other races, potentially leads to some degree of miscegenation.

I don't see this as being the fundamental value of racial separatism. Instead, I would argue that racial separatism is justified on the grounds that whites are being outbred by nonwhites in multiracial societies, not necessarily that they are mixing with them, although this is also a problem. There is some mixture going on, true, but it is not really all that much. The much bigger problem is the relative decline that is going on due to demographic expansion amongst nonwhites.

>>>Thus it is beneficial to completely separate the races.

You could argue that racial separatism is justified on the grounds that racially mixed societies lead to miscegenation. I would argue, however, that the much more powerful argument is that separatism is justified because of the relative decline of the white population viz the nonwhite population, that is, the white population is simply being outbred. Miscegenation is a problem, true, but it is a much smaller problem, as it is relatively localised and only going on with a small minority.

>>> It's contradictory for you to insist that we can all embrace nonwhites into our personal lives and homes without any threat of miscegenation, but then insist racial separation is necessary to ensure our survival.

You have set up a straw man here, Nordhammer. I have argued that interracial friendships do not necessarily become sexual ones. I never suggested that there was no threat that such interracial relationships may, in some cases, become sexual. Indeed, this entire argument is confusing, as your line of reasoning throughout this debate has more or less been a reductio ad Mynydd.

Pardon me for butting in Fade, but I think you're mischaracterizing Nordhammer's argument.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

You argued earlier that having interracial friendships led to interracial romance. I said that was not necessarily so, that it is illogical to make such an argument, as that is clearly a case of the slippery slope fallacy. Now you have retreated to probability, which is something altogether different.

Here's what Nordhammer originally said:

If people can develop meaningful interracial friendships then they too can develop interracial romantic relationships.

Note that Nordhammer said interracial friendships can lead to interracial romance; he did not say they must lead to interracial romance. So it appears you have mischaracterized his argument.

If people can develop meaningful interracial friendships then they too can develop interracial romantic relationships.

Actually, I think if you have zero interaction with people of other races, you'll be more likely to consider them for dating and you will like them more in general. This explains why Scandinavia and Great Britain have got more Negrophiles than Italy.

The wiggers around my area come from predominantly white cities and idolize a glamorized image of blacks they see on TV. Had they actually met some blacks (not necessarily become friends with them) I doubt they all would have turned out like that. The white people living in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods are either racemixers cohabiting with blacks or totally racist.

The main reason I would recommend having a few non-White friends (and no one is saying they have to be your best friends), is to be able to observe first hand the differences between various races and cultures.

The entire point of this discussion Nordhammer is having a friendship with a member of another race does not necessarily mean you will develop a romantic relationship with them. In some cases, yes, that happens, but it does not necessarily follow that interracial friendships turn into interracial romances. And as I pointed out before, this would be a moot issue anyway, as there would be no other races in a separatist society to begin with.

Yes, it would be a moot issue, but for now and many years to come it is an issue.

Let's make it simple. Group A of white people has no interaction with nonwhites. Group B of white people is totally integrated with nonwhites. Which group has the greater chance to have some degree of miscegenation occurring? Who has more racemixing, America or Iceland? While every individual in Group B won't necessarily race mix, there is the potential and probability that some will. If racial separatism is a good thing in theory, then why not engage in self-separation from nonwhites now? Keep in mind I'm talking about the masses, who don't share your beliefs and probably don't have your level of self-discipline and control.

Obviously we're talking about opposite sex relationships. But same sex friendships can lead to encounters with the opposite sex. For instance, I had an Asian acquaintance in highschool who liked me and wanted me to date his sister. I didn't of course. This was before I was racialist, even though I had the inclination (and why I refused). I also had a hapa friend who took me to this Korean restaurant once, and because of that I met a hapa girl who worked there, and she was very flirtatious. Something could have come of that as well. I have many more examples. So you see, these interactions many times lead to potential acts of miscegenation. Not that I or you would do such a thing, we are men of character, but we're talking about the masses, what would the average person do. That is who we must consider, since we are talking about race and populations as a whole, not extreme individuals.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

No, I am just pointing out that that there are plenty of whites who are scum and these people are not inherently valuable simply because they are white. Eminem is white. What do I care about Eminem?

But Eminem does have inherent value to us because he is white/Nordish. He could be reformed. A wigger isn't necessarily a lost cause or scum of the earth, just a victim of our modern decadence.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I simply argued that there is plenty of scum within the white race and that I hold upstanding men and women of other races in higher regard than I do white degenerates.

Depending on the severity of a white's degeneracy, he or she can be reformed. In contrast, a nonwhite can never be made white. I dislike insulting my own people while praising nonwhites, I think this is a bad move.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I must have forgotten to mention that I do not believe in inherent value. So race does not possess any inherent value. It is something we give value.

You believe in inherent value enough to give all whites citizenship, unless they are in some way a criminal and that right is revoked, while rejecting all nonwhites, whether they are criminal or lawabiding, genius or idiot.

You see, that's why we are in the situation we're in, because the vast majority of people do not see any inherent value in race, thus why discriminate by it? It's every man for himself.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

In my view, citizenship should be based on race, but not because race has inherent value, but because I have given it value on the basis of my own values.

Then you're living a lie?

It has inherent value to perpetuating our people.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

I don't see this as being the fundamental value of racial separatism. Instead, I would argue that racial separatism is justified on the grounds that whites are being outbred by nonwhites in multiracial societies, not necessarily that they are mixing with them, although this is also a problem. There is some mixture going on, true, but it is not really all that much. The much bigger problem is the relative decline that is going on due to demographic expansion amongst nonwhites.

That's funny, because a few posts ago you said the opposite. You said integration is a threat to our racial integrity.

FadeTheButcher
"I support racial separatism because I am not convinced that our racial and cultural integrity can be maintained in an integrated environment."

Now you say it's not integrity, it's just displacement by their greater births.

I agree that displacement is a factor but I disagree it is the greater factor. Miscegenation is the killer, not nonwhites having more children. If miscegenation never happened we wouldn't have much to worry about as far as the continuation of our people, we would just be competing for resources at that point, which is managable because our people's racial integrity would always be intact and we are an intelligent and resourceful people. Jews have survived among other populations for thousands of years because they have maintained their racial and cultural integrity. Unfortunately the majority of our people are not that resolute.

Originally Posted by FadeTheButcher

You have set up a straw man here, Nordhammer. I have argued that interracial friendships do not necessarily become sexual ones. I never suggested that there was no threat that such interracial relationships may, in some cases, become sexual. Indeed, this entire argument is confusing, as your line of reasoning throughout this debate has more or less been a reductio ad Mynydd.

LOL You are creating your own reality and making many false assumptions, in actuality you are creating the straw men. I believed what I do long before that insane miscegenous troll surfaced. But that is another example of interaction leading to miscegenation.

Actually, I think if you have zero interaction with people of other races, you'll be more likely to consider them for dating and you will like them more in general. This explains why Scandinavia and Great Britain have got more Negrophiles than Italy.

More Italians interact with Negroes?

If Scandinavia and Great Britain had no Negroes in their population to interact with, and never had any interaction with them otherwise, how would they date them? They couldn't. No, the culprit of this ignorance and deception is the propaganda machine which tells us we're all equal and that nonwhites are victims of white abuse, and our governments instituting laws against racism and enforcing integration.

Originally Posted by More Nerdish than Nordish

The wiggers around my area come from predominantly white cities and idolize a glamorized image of blacks they see on TV. Had they actually met some blacks (not necessarily become friends with them) I doubt they all would have turned out like that.

Television and propaganda is to blame for that, not lack of interaction. There are plenty of wiggers who do interact with blacks as well.

Originally Posted by More Nerdish than Nordish

The white people living in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods are either racemixers cohabiting with blacks or totally racist.

Exactly. The wiggers living in white suburbia who idolize blacks don't racemix since they don't interact with them. They just emulate what they see on TV like trained monkeys.

Originally Posted by More Nerdish than Nordish

The main reason I would recommend having a few non-White friends (and no one is saying they have to be your best friends), is to be able to observe first hand the differences between various races and cultures.

We aren't talking about social anthropology studies. You can observe various people and groups without being personal friends with them and inviting them to your house. But if you think it's perfectly fine for white girls to entertain black men and be their personal friends, and white men to have close relationships with Asian women, then go ahead. We see what happened with your brother.

I think the key to the Preservation of the White Race(Of any Race) is Isolation so Interracial Friendships aren't a good idea. Close Physical and Emotional Proximity are the precursors of Miscegenation.

Actually, I think if you have zero interaction with people of other races, you'll be more likely to consider them for dating and you will like them more in general. This explains why Scandinavia and Great Britain have got more Negrophiles than Italy.

The wiggers around my area come from predominantly white cities and idolize a glamorized image of blacks they see on TV. Had they actually met some blacks (not necessarily become friends with them) I doubt they all would have turned out like that. The white people living in poor, predominantly black neighborhoods are either racemixers cohabiting with blacks or totally racist.

The main reason I would recommend having a few non-White friends (and no one is saying they have to be your best friends), is to be able to observe first hand the differences between various races and cultures.

It is better to travel to their own home country to experience them in their natural habitat. We don't want them living in our countries. We don't want to be friends with them as long as they are here amongst us.

My sentiments exactly. I was going to post a plea to be very careful how we talk about coloured people - "muds". I do not think degrading other races will do our cause any good.

Interracial friendship is of no concern here in Norway, especially in my city. Immigrants are so few still that my little boy was completely flabbergasted when he saw an adopted negroid boy in his kindergarten. He had never seen a black person.

You have a VERY lucky little boy Freja. (Cute too!) I have never met a mud that I liked or wanted to be friends with. They are too disposed to crime for my tastes.

I don't really like the interracial friendships, and interracial relationships anger me greatly. If I see an interracial relationship it throws my whole day down. I really love these forums where we can talk freely. Before I found Skadi and TNP the only white preservationist movement I was aware of was the ANP.
My projected high school population is about 60% Hispanic, 20 % White, and 20 % Black. This is very disappointing. My parents moved here from Tennessee, and South Carolina. To describe it, it feels like I'm being suffocated by Non-Whites. I only have a few white friends, and usually try to avoid Non-Whites, which is difficult. The other day I found out that this girl I know that is a second/ or third generation Scandinavian immigrant was dating a black guy. I don't know what to think, but I know I am leaving this place when I get older.