I'm making a Battle Roles Guide specifically for the Advanced Generation. I will only highlight important roles, such as sweepers, tanks and passers (both pseudo and baton). I think that it is necessary to refer members to helpful thread, so that they can make a better team. I could have very easily bumped Bushin's "Best Tank" Thread, but I truly felt it necessary to broaden it. Most of these movesets are standard. SOME MOVESETS WERE ONLY MEANT FOR THE CASUAL BATTLING, AND THUS SHOULD NOT BE USED IN NETBATTLE!!!

Contrary to most sets, this set is based on Alakazam's low defenses and hp, but high special attack and speed. Basically, predict an okay time to switch, switch in, attack with the best attack you have, and then run. You could go with HP Dark, Water, or Grass if you want to xsurprise someone.

Alot of options here...Leaf Blade is on almost every sceptile, special or phsical. Crunch for consistency, though pursuit is good if you can predict a switch. Dragon Claw for power, or Dragon Breath for paralysis chances. The last is a toss-up. Thunder-punch for flyers and 75Power+Paralysis; HP Ice for dragons and other grasses; HP Fire for steels (especially magneton). HP Psychic for a surprise, and to kill off poisons/fighters; HP Water for the oh-so-rare fire-types. The HP is bad, the defenses are bad, thus players usually focus on speed and special attack. Also good because it lacks the calm mind, and instead gets agility, which is quite useless on one so fast.

This one has problems. No stability, no speed. Worst, no movepool. But, it does have a high special attack, and can survive a hit to go second. It only has 2 good moves, really. Excellent skarmory/forretress counter.

Lots of options. I mentioned this one in a Dragonite vs. Salamence thread. similar to magneton in some ways, different in others. It can stay in as long as you need it too. Works good with stat-upper or without.

Pretty much, decent speed, high special attack are all you need. Sorta better than those that up their stats, in that they don't rely on calm mind, so that when hazers come by, it all goes bye-bye. Worse in that if they don't go first, they're sorta dead, and the fact that they don't hit that hard hurts things.

The following section, known as pseudo stat-uppers, relies on stat upping of a different kind. Sort of limited selection though. Weather usually helps them.

Lol. Sunny-Beaming sorta sucks, but at least pokemon with chlorophyll get the equivalent of agility. HP fire because it's boosted by SunnyDay, Psychic and extrasensory for those who get it (exeggcutor and shiftry, mainly). Works quite well. If you pair it up with a groudon, you have an extra move slot. Exeggcutor and Shiftry, for instance, are seen in uber play because of groudon. Any way, that's it.

Same as above. Just a Flamethrower > HP Fire. You can go with a calm mind somewhere, but if over the recovery, look down below. If you go instead of flamethrower, look above. Not terribly necessary. The healing move needs to be discussed. Moonlight is for clefable. Softboiled for clefable or blissey. Wish is for all 3, but blissey gets it through an event. Wish is best for wigglytuff (ZOMG, 140 base HP -> 242 heal-pass) and blissey (numbers are too big). Clefable has the highest of the SAtk.

The Petaya berry is new for alot of people. Aka, "pinch berry". Colluseum, it boost the special attack when the hp < 25%. Either way, no speed boost, but at least there's a flamethrower. No synthesis either. Best for houndoom, as it gets rid of weaknesses. Self explanatory.

Kyogre does a similar set, but it gets calm mind. Nothing much to speak of, these are the two that benefit the most. Also, the psydex search function isn't working well. Same idea as before. I'm out of ideas. Electrics pull it off with HP Water.

Calm-Mind'ers: Special ones, only a few examples. Not many good ones, except legendaries and psychics.

@Leftovers
~Calm Mind
~Rcover
~Psychic
~Fire Punch

Alakazam sets are all over the place. This one involves Power-Up, Heal, Sweep. Some say that psychic/fire combo is useless, partly because darks and steels resist it. But truth be said, these two attacks work well. Some like encore, but then you trade a power-up or heal for it. No way.

put them to sleep, and power up safely. Ice beam with Jynx, T-bolt with gardevoir, a punch with anyone (some like fire punch on jynx; some like ice punch on gardevoir).

However, one popular calm minder that is water has not yet been mentioned-Suicune:
@Leftovers
~Calm Mind
~Surf
~Ice Beam
~Rest/Roar

In some battles, one pokemon will calm mind, and the other will follow. However, after 6 calm minds on each side, nothing is gonna happen. So, they roar each other away. Speed is the only factor, and thus, roar. If you don't think you're going up against an opponent that CM's, just use Rest. You'll take a load of damage otherwise.

Lefties because you have no time to raise the attack stat.
Iron Defense and Amnesia to raise the defenses. Toxic because its annoying, but sludgebomb actually gives damage. HP Steel/Metal Claw to do damage, though the other moves are a choice, with good reason. EQ gets rid of fires and other steels. Rock Slide for fire types and those that commonly use EQ (Like bellyzard and DDMence).

***This is the one I use***Curse/Rest is a combo, and you could deal them so much damage per turn indirectly. Just hope that you don't find yourself up against taunt (all your moves would be disabled). S-toss and Night Shade is a decent combo, dealing 100 damge per turn to anything (night shade to all but normals, s-toss to all but ghosts). Brick Break and Shadow Ball is also a combo, so you could hit everything (brick break hits rocks and steels, and you WANT to get rid of the steels). You could do a pain split/Shadow Ball Combo (Pain split to everyone but ghosts, Shadow ball to ghosts). Excellent lead off (lol, imagine splitting a chansey).
Edit: While looking at movesets from gamefaqs, i discovered that noone resists Shadow Ball/HP fighting Combo (in this case, you get brick break, but not Mightyenna). Something extra to consider.

Excellent overall Defenses, but no offense. Relies on Toxic to do it's bidding. Recover should go in there, but the question is where? Cosmic power is a neccesity, toxic and spikes do the most damage, and without an attacking move, falls to a taunter.

@Lefties
~Cosmic Power
~Rapid Spin
~Psychic/EQ/Explosion
~Shadow Ball

A sucky attack, but thats a trade off for immunity to spikes, and a chance to rid your team of them. The only pokemon that are immune to rapid spin are ghosts, and if you don't do ANY damge w/ rapid spin, the spikes don't go away. So shadow Ball is used. Now, if you use EQ, you can give a -SAtk nature, but if you use psychic, its a bit of a problem. Or, you could just explode. Your choice.

Much better as just a physical sponge. Without the toxic and amnesia, you open up possibilities such as flamethrowerand body slam. Back to the tank. Again, Toxi-tank. Curse if you want to really do damage, Iron Defense for more survival time. Explosion after 2 curses is really horrible (pretty much 2x attack on a 500 power normal move, because it temporarily lowers defense). Shell Bell obviously with Curse Slide, Lefties if explosion or iron defense (if unboosted Rock Slide, it wont do damage, and if you explode, no recovery). Physical-Wall/Attack torkoal after snorlax.

Until you reach the 2nd or 3rd curse (depending on its original Def), its only a special sponge. Curse up, then Rest, then Curse more and Rest, or Attack. 3 Curses get rid of useless speed, give it more Def for survivability, and pumps up the attack. Return for power, BodySlam for Para chance and increased survivability (you might even hit first, lol). Shadow Ball for Gengar (otherwise, it would be EQ, but Gengar's immune). Walrein pulls this set off, as does Lapras, but w/o shadow ball. Or the massive attack.

Talking about Cursers, Torkoal is arguably in the top 5 as best ones. I put him here originally, but he'll go as the first physical wall.

Paralyze, Attack, Heal. Doesn't mater which move you use, they both work great.

#2
@Lefties
~Calm Mind
~T-bolt
~Ice Beam
~Softboiled

Popular in Netbattle, very easy to pull off. Power up, heal, attack (much like snorlax). 20% chance Frz with Serene Grace Ability, but Natural cure if you're worried about synchronizers and t-wavers, natural cure. Either way, both 95 base power.

#3
@Lefties
~Calm Mind
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~Psychic
~Softboiled

Only 2 resist fire and psychic moves: T-tar and Houndoom. The idea here is to burn so that there attack is lower (essentially raising your defense), and to lower there SDef w/ Psychic. I came up with this one, Not Smogon, not Serebii, not Psypokes (though I will formally reccomend it), not Bushin (though he was I think the first one not me to post think of this-as evidence he put it on a team), BUT ME! Serwene Grace Helps Alot here, but Natural Cure is important too. Plus, Psychic slaughters those that get stab on F-punch (except medicham).

@Leftovers
~T-bolt/Amnesia
~Ice Beam
~Toxic
~Explosion

Gamefaqs put regice compared to blissey in the following way:
blisseyisadirtylittlecheappinkwhorethatputregiceoutofajob.

It is true. Regice is second best. Nothing to boost the Special Defense. No real recovery moves (it dies while resting). It is second class overall. IT relies on the stats that it has. A 200 base SDef is nothing to cough at, trust me. However, it suffers from an HP below Swampert (deal with him in a minute). It can't do much direct damage (T-bolt barely 2HKOs Gyarados), so it relies on toxic. Explosion sucks if they bring in a ghost or physical sponge (more on that later). Blissey has a lower SDef, but higher HP, a way to recover the HP, less special weaknesses, and a way to boost the SDef. Kyogre has better HP, and a way to boost the SDef. Hariyama has more HP than Regice and Kyogre. And special resistances (Fire and Ice for thick fat ability). But about 1/3 the SDef, so thank god for that. Regice is good in-game EmSaRu, and dominated Hoenn RuSa 200. Again, a good one if you don't like Blissey, but Snorlax is probably better (has Thick Fat and does damage. In the event of Regice vs. Snorlax, Snorlax wins 99% of the time).
Edit: It gets amnesia. I'll edit this. Just looked at the stats. A 100 base SAtk is nothing to cough at. Still, +SDef nature.

@Leftovers
~Surf/Ice Beam
~Ice Beam/Mirror Coat
~EQ/Mirror Coat
~Rest

Probably the best special wall for sandstorm teams, swampert has one weakness, and an immunity to the oh so common t-bolt. Very Simple Idea. If you have perfect HP DVs, you can get 404 HP. To put that into perspective, a substitute would then survive 2 s-tosses. If you want to skimp on HP, 401 with Leftovers allows you to survive 5 s-tosses with one HP to spare. The SDef is enough that it can take a Modest Sceptile's Leaf Blade, and Mirror coat it right back for an OHKO. That is, with around 200 SDef EVs. The nature depends on the moves. If using EQ, go for a -Speed or -Def. If using Ice Beam, -Atk. Speed in this case is important. You need that quick rest, so you live. It is considered a "Bulky Water", so it can stop mixed sweepers too (Survives EQ, Focus Punch, Rock Slide, etc)

If its like a Salamence, and they usually don't do a special move, kill them with one of the first 3 moves. Marvel Scale doesn't help much here, because Paralysis slows you down, or completely disables you, Psn/Brn take away HP. For Marvel Scale Help, go with #2.

Fairly simple, I think. Calm Mind up, rest, attack. After 3 Calm Minds, Mirror coat won't do much, for 2 reasons. One, the opponent will just attack with physical moves, or two, their special moves won't do anything to you. Probably 14 different ones that could do something like this (ie, CM with ice punch and water pulse, and wish), so I stray no farther.

Other good ones are those with Calm Mind (Psychics, I look at you), Volt absorbers (w/o , would have done so nicely, and ), Water absorbers (specifically, , with the massive HP, but works well), Thick-Fat-pokemon ({walrein}, ), anyone with High HP and SDef.

***This is the one I use***This is the one that I use. I was thinking @White Heb, w/Overheat, but the speed it gives up is minute, and its ability is like clear body, so not worth it. RELAXED NATURE IS A MUST! Its speed is like Base 0 (might as well be, anyway), it gives up the speed. And it needs as much extra unboosted defense as it can get. It takes prediction, because it won't switch in safely on a surf. It can survive rock slide with an unboosted defense. Flamethrower has the slight chance of burning, which helps it alot because it lowers the opponents attack. Sludge bomb is an option somewhere, but if you throw it in over flamethrower, you cant touch steels, and if you throw it in over the physical attack, it does no real damage.

@Leftovers
~Toxic
~Spikes
~Roar
~Steel Wing

Lay down the spikes, toxify, attack with Steel Wing, (hopefully get a defense boost), and roar. When you roar in one with a T-bolt or Flamethrower, RUN!. Self Explanatory Though

One special weakness, and it isn't 4x. 1 heavily physical immunity (Ground), and resists to fighting and bug. Fire Blast to get rid of steels who resist sludge bomb, W-o-W for burn, and haze to rid stat boosts. W-o-W and haze work as a team, DON'T FORGET THAT!!! DestinyBond/Explosion for when you think you'll die, Rest is sorta shaky, pain split if a new pokemon comes in.

There are a few others with good defenses, but aren't practical, like (4x weak to the 2 most common types off attacks on physical sweepers), (Again, too many physical weaknesses), (HP Water and Grass are common nowadays, so an easy switch in; again, weak to EQ and Brick Break). Gengar is immune to 3 of the most common attacks on physical sweepers, but doesn't have the defensive stats to back him up when attacked by rock and steels.

Again, more to come. If you have a set, or you think a pokemon would qualify for tanks/special sweepers, post down below.

Last edited by Peanut-Lover on Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:26 am

goldenquagsire

Art Commentator

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:39 amPosts: 2467Location: London, UK

Hey, what about Starmie?

@ Leftovers

Calm Mind/Cosmic Power
Surf
Recover
Thunder Wave/Psychic

Calm Mind if you want to use Psychic, Cosmic Power if you want to use Thunder Wave. Use the stat-upping move for a while, Recover when needed and Surf when you feel ready to take a bit of health off the opponent. Thunder Wave is helpful if you want to cripple a physical sweeper, whereas Psychic makes Calm Mind more viable.

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Last edited by goldenquagsire on Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:31 am

Chimaerax

Ace Trainer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:08 pmPosts: 347Location: Good Ol' USA

2 things:

skarm is seeing much less toxic sets simply because of the wide popularity of healers and resters. standard set now is

@ leftovers/mint berry
~Spikes
~Substitute/Thief
~Drill Peck
~Rest

Weezing does not have the luxury of Destiny bond OR Rest. Its speed is abysmal at best and even has trouble outspeeding slow stuff like ttar. rest will cause it to die and a slower destiny bond is useless.

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Wed Nov 29, 2006 6:54 pm

Peanut-Lover

Site Administrator

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 amPosts: 1917Location: Brooklyn, NY

Sorry, Chimerax. Actually, this was meant for casual battles in the Hoenn Generation, not for masters of netbattle. Again, Gamefaqs was a bit of a help, but now that it is in a Netbattle Forum, I have no choice but to use Smogon.

Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:02 pm

Chimaerax

Ace Trainer

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:08 pmPosts: 347Location: Good Ol' USA

Peanut-Lover wrote:

If you have a set, or you think a pokemon would qualify for tanks, post below

i thought the idea was for people to contribute ideas :roll: and i was merely pitching from experience.

i never said anything about being "masters of netbattle" and a good set is a good set regardless of "casual" or "competitive" play. copying sets from smogon isn't such a hot idea anyway because internet users can just visit the site themselves (& its not very creative is it?).

in terms of tanking, umbreon also comes to mind b/c of its high sp def.

@ leftovers
~mean look
~taunt/toxic
~wish
~baton pass/protect

this also happens to double as a passer for trap and heal, which definitely isn't bad for a setup. i used to use the toxic-protect set which is instantly shut down by substitute but works nicely on anything else.

I'm also a big favorite of deoxys-L when playing ubers:

@ Leftovers
~toxic
~knock off
~snatch
~recover

cosmic power is NOT absolutely necessary (recover, on the other hand, is). the thing is already a wall and there's no need to beat a dead horse. knock off works nicely with toxic and can also shed lati@s of soul dew. snatch can grab your opponent's calm minds, recovers, arometherapies, heal bells, etc. to ensure a kill from toxic. very annoying

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Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:00 pm

goldenquagsire

Art Commentator

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:39 amPosts: 2467Location: London, UK

Wait, why did this get moved to the Netbattle section? I thought it was for people playing the actual games.

Anyway, I've thought of a decent Wailord moveset:

@ Chesto Berry

Ability - Water Veil

Amnesia
Rest
Curse
Earthquake

Amnesia and Curse until you've maxed Defense, resting when needed, and Earthquake the opponent to death.

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Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:19 am

garabato

Illiterate

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:00 pmPosts: 261Location: Columbia

Wihat about with EV in def and spc def?

Bright powder
-Toxic
-Wrap
-Double team
-Rest

Tue Dec 05, 2006 12:37 pm

The Obsidian Wolf

Pokemon Master

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:03 amPosts: 1559Location: Dragon's Den

Probably not, its a little haxxy, you see, Bright Powder combined with Double Team leads to a boring battle - the only hits you do get in are going to be Rested away. It would annoy me to know end if I was to come up with a similar Shuckle and have a stalemate against yours.

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"Play with fire and expect to be burned."

Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:01 pm

Peanut-Lover

Site Administrator

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 amPosts: 1917Location: Brooklyn, NY

ZOMG!!!! HOW COULD I FORGET THE BEST TOXI-TRAPPER FROM GSC???? I will add it.
And, CM Blissey is beating a dead hoarse, as is Amnesia Regice. Its done quite often. Either way, I'll investigate the Deoxys set in the coming week. I have a history project due soon, so bear with me (thats why I haven't been here in a while).
And, I was taking out my anger on you, again, sorry. It was NOT meant for netbattle, and Toxi-shuffling is still rather common link wise.

Again, yes, goldenquagsire, it was originally supposed to be in the Hoenn section for team building. sN0w felt it best to go in here, because I brought in the Metagame.
However, as I said in the rating center 3 months back, wailord has alot of HP, albeit worthless without the defenses. 252 EVs only pumps it up to 189 defenses. And thats with 31 IVs (Perfect). If I listed all of them, it would be a long list. This was meant to be a simple one, with a few examples (Important ones, like CM Blissey, and Regice). Snorlax has better stats anyway.

Okay, I know this situation has probably confused a lot of people, and I'd like to try and sort it out. There was a lot of miscommunication and all that stuff, but I think/hope it's sorted out now.

This thread was originally moved to Netbattle because it was first believed to be directed more at the metagame than in-game situations. Let's just say that that didn't work out, as it can be guessed from previous posts, but it was disputable at the time being. So after a few delays and explanations, we finally sorted it out. It's now here to stay, so don't worry about it moving anywhere else.

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Sun Dec 10, 2006 6:24 pm

Peanut-Lover

Site Administrator

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 amPosts: 1917Location: Brooklyn, NY

At this moment, I'm right now doing sweepers. I'm sorry for the delay, just that I had school work (lol).

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:45 am

goldenquagsire

Art Commentator

Joined: Tue Apr 11, 2006 11:39 amPosts: 2467Location: London, UK

Which varieties? Special or Physical?

Physical

@ Lum Berry

Megahorn
Brick Break
Rock Slide
Earthquake/Swords Dance

Unholy. Most of the time, you don't even need to use Swords Dance to own the opponent. Pump EVs into Speed and Attack, don't bother with the defenses much. This guy relies on fast, mindless force. He's pretty frail without speed, and he's weak to Flying, Fire and Psychic. Luckily, his moves overcome all of these types, and can outspeed nearly all the Pokemon of those types.

Special

@ Leftovers

Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Dragon Claw
Thunderbolt

Yeah, so it's the set from Psypoke. It's brilliant, and Draggy is probably the Special Sweeper with the highest defences. Flamethrower is the archenemy of pure Ice types, Thunderbolt kills 90% of everything else with Ice Beam on their movesets. Ice Beam is a defence against fellow Dragons, and Dragon Claw provides some STAB.

Of course, if you want something a little more money-friendly, here's Sceptile (a tried-and-tested pwn-master).

With EVs in Speed and Special Attack, this thing can take down Skarmory, Swamperet, Milotic, most Waters, quite a few Flying types, a good amount of Ghosts and is brilliant versus Kingdra. Just don't leave it out against anything that can resist it's moves and fight back - Sceptile is even more fragile than Heracross! Be warned - Even though Sceptile is cost-effective, it takes AGES to breed a female from a Ditto, breed Crunch onto it via a Seviper, then to get 48 Battle Points, and finally to level it up. It's worth it, trust me.

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Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:29 pm

Peanut-Lover

Site Administrator

Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:32 amPosts: 1917Location: Brooklyn, NY

Lol, breed it with salamence to get both crunch and dragonbreath.

Anyway, they're up. Lots of them (I think I'm going for a record, as to post size in pixels). To organize things, I put them in seperate quotes. I actually forgot about dragonite, one of the better. A few were put in with walls, so I didn't mention them (Blissey, Milotic). The suicune set has a slight change for more of sweeper-cune. Nothing special.

Brightpowder for some evasion, Toxic+Mean Look for Toxi-Trapping (duh!), S-Toss to deal 100 damage every turn and Counter for TankSaur and other Physical Sweepers. This set works wonder against PhSweepers and it RULES in-game.

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