London Niners: Tour, Drinks and Debate

Description

Charles was in London a few months ago and had the honor of meeting some London Niners: Sabot (and his lovely wife), Blowdart, and Irascian. In this video, Sabot and wife give Charles a brief tour of London including a ride on the world's largest ferris
wheel (at least it sure seems like it...) also known as the London Eye. Then, we meet up with Blowdart and Irascian for some beers and good conversation about, among other things, Channel 9 - The Good, Bad and Ugly.

I hope you'll be back soon, there is plenty we didn't get to show you that is cool too. Give us enough warning next time and we'll sort a Geek Dinner and you can meet some more of the guys and girls of UK C9 and the development community here.

Lou and I, love showing people around London, so if anyone else wants to have a little tour we would be more than willing to oblige ... and you don't have to have a camera around for C9!

I hear you guys about the information Microsoft presents as being like spaghetti.

Maybe there should be a more comprehensive independant "blog search" site dedicated to Microsoft stuff. For example you could have a section called "Office" and under that section is all the bloggers and all the little sites that Microsoft has, and maybe users
could tag information.

It's kinda already being done with MSDN but personally to me that site is a little too much "OMGWTFLOOKLOOKLOOOK!!!!" for me.

Did I hear correctly, are the car thingies on the London Eye called pods?So that would make them "Eye-pods"?I'm amazed Steve J hasn't primed the lawyerpult already (Although I'm not sure about the relative chronology, there could be prior art there...even better )It does look cool though...up until now I've been thinking "great big ferris wheel - that's so....tasteful" but now I definitely want to give it a go next time I'm in London.

On the subject of some of the issues raised towards the end: someone needs to think of a reason for a .NET 3.0 API for Windows Genuine Advantage.Then we'd have a Windows Bondage Foundation, and I think the world needs that.

﻿I hear you guys about the information Microsoft presents as being like spaghetti.

Maybe there should be a more comprehensive independant "blog search" site dedicated to Microsoft stuff. For example you could have a section called "Office" and under that section is all the bloggers and all the little sites that Microsoft has, and maybe users
could tag information.

It's kinda already being done with MSDN but personally to me that site is a little too much "OMGWTFLOOKLOOKLOOOK!!!!" for me.

Microsoft is this massive creative mussle, not only programs, but articles, updates, blogs and it's all just appearing all over Microsoft, MSDN, tech net and related websites.

What I want is a website that has categories like a filing cabinet so I can see all the new content that is in that category.

Ok, so the categories can be broad thats ok but I just would like to have some kind of way to find the stuff I need and not sift through all the stuff to find what I want to get to.

Just in case anyone's interested the Larkware site that Dave mentioned (which each day summarises interesting stuff found on the web for .NET developers) can be found here:
http://www.larkware.com/ - definitely worth subscribing to their feed and checking the daily update if you're a .NET developer.

I'll bet someone at Microsoft was thinking, "just how much money exactly are we paying to put this stuff online?" while you guys were coming up with a voice for the Channel 9 Guy, and again later during the bondage thing.

﻿#I'll bet someone at Microsoft was thinking, "just how much money exactly are we paying to put this stuff online?" while you guys were coming up with a voice for the Channel 9 Guy, and again later during the bondage thing.

As much as I'm enjoying this video, I would like to politely (and respectfully) disagree with the notion that the Coffeehouse would be better if there were no Moderation.

What would make things better - and this is strictly my opinion, take it for what it's worth - would be tighter security, so that Charles and the other active admins don't have to babysit the site so much.

Please note that although Irascian is a proponent of light-to-no-moderation, yet he feels that Charles should not un-ban beer28...this seems a bit confusing. I am with Irascian on this, don't unban him...if anything, tighten his chains even more.

Please note that although Irascian is a proponent of light-to-no-moderation, yet he feels that Charles should not un-ban beer28...this seems a bit confusing. I am with Irascian on this, don't unban him...if anything, tighten his chains even more.

I fully agree. I believe all rebellion should be crushed under our boots, rival kernels smashed, and the flag of Vista should fly over the headquarters of the free software foundation.

Fdisk, you're becoming extremeley tiresome lately. What exactly is your point? As it happens the video was recorded on a Sunday afternoon/evening, but your comment is ridiculous anyway.

As for the moderation question, things can turn into a witch hunt very quickly (just look at some of the responses in that competition thread). What people who keep crying for moderation are really saying is they can't turn the other cheek or ignore people
who say stupid things. Whenever this subject has come up it's usually been "I should be a moderator because Charles is never here". In my experience moderation ends up starting more flame wars than the posts that allegedly were the reason for its introduction.
Look at some of the abuse that's been aimed at the moderators here in the past just because they've gently chided someone for a post. That situation will get a hundred times worse if you start acceding to the "I wanna be special so I've got something to brag
about - make me a moderator" brigage

Beer28 was something else in that he totally dominated the forums and turned trying to destroy the place into a full-time job. Worse he started threatening people off the boards with time-wasting legal threats etc. The guy had a screw loose and got to the stage
where he didn't deserve anybody's respect. I can't really think of anybody else in the several years I've been here who came close (well, OK, possibly orbit86). He was the exception that proved the rule!

Charles wrote:﻿It's always great to meet and talk to Niners. We continue to do this for Channel 9, and all over the world...

C

Let us (me, Tensor, Ross, etc) know if you ever stop by at Manchester or Liverpool airport

I'm still watching the video, I've seen 10 minutes of it so far, I'll watch the rest tomorrow.

If you want guys, I'm more than happy to get in the car with the a video camera and film you if you want. Then I can send the tape to Charles or it digitally what ever format is required. Or we could just stick it up on YouTube as 100% community thing.

It'll give me a chance to meet you, have a few beers and a laugh.

I'm free the weekend of the Oct 28th/29th? So what do you say? Are you up for it?

When I was in UK I was very angry about this country (there was a lot of reasons, beleive me). But now, watching this video... I want back to UK again! Why? Does things like that happening with everyone or just me?

Well nobody sounded even remotely like what I'd have imagined (well except Charles obviously), but cool video nonetheless. Could probably do the weekend of the 28th/29th too, assuming it's nowhere too remote.

﻿Fdisk, you're becoming extremeley tiresome lately. What exactly is your point? As it happens the video was recorded on a Sunday afternoon/evening, but your comment is ridiculous anyway.

Here. Let's try this. Your undying enthusiasm for this site is really odd. Are you trying to get hired by them? On more than one occasion they have offered job interviews. Usually they hired internally. Granted, Rory is a great hire, but looking back, what
would be the point of applying if you were up against that? Why even open it up to the public? It was probably an HR requirement if nothing else. So, yes, your devotion (and others) is really scary and unmerited.

Edit: I used to believe in this site and the people here (until I actually met them, which really opened my eyes). I am also extremely capable as a coder, a semi-decent software architect, and a few other things so before you launch into another diatribe, I'll
tell you that this site has done more to wreck my image of microsoft than anything else.

irascian wrote:﻿Fdisk, you're becoming extremeley tiresome lately. What exactly is your point? As it happens the video was recorded on a Sunday afternoon/evening, but your comment is ridiculous anyway.

Here. Let's try this. Your undying enthusiasm for this site is really odd. Are you trying to get hired by them? On more than one occasion they have offered job interviews. Usually they hired internally. Granted, Rory is a great hire, but looking back, what
would be the point of applying if you were up against that? Why even open it up to the public? It was probably an HR requirement if nothing else. So, yes, your devotion (and others) is really scary and unmerited.

Edit: I used to believe in this site and the people here (until I actually met them, which really opened my eyes). I am also extremely capable as a coder, a semi-decent software architect, and a few other things so before you launch into another diatribe, I'll
tell you that this site has done more to wreck my image of microsoft than anything else.

Then why are you still here?

Being cool on C9 doesn't get you hired by Microsoft, I doesn't really help either.

What helps you get hired is being good at the job they are hiring you for.

With the C9 positions, there was more than one, what stopped you from going for one of them? Is the kind of thing that C9 is asking the kind of thing you do? It's all well in and good being a decent coder or Arch if you are really bad at holding a conversation
and making a good interview.

Ian and I have been around Microsoft long enough to know they aren't perfect.

IMO there has been a sea-change in recent years and C9 reflects that thinking, Microsoft has internal battles about this kind of things which we don't see.

Being cool on C9 doesn't get you hired by Microsoft, I doesn't really help either.

What helps you get hired is being good at the job they are hiring you for.

With the C9 positions, there was more than one, what stopped you from going for one of them? Is the kind of thing that C9 is asking the kind of thing you do? It's all well in and good being a decent coder or Arch if you are really bad at holding a conversation
and making a good interview.

Ian and I have been around Microsoft long enough to know they aren't perfect.

IMO there has been a sea-change in recent years and C9 reflects that thinking, Microsoft has internal battles about this kind of things which we don't see.

Why do I feel like you have this huge chip on your shoulder? Maybe that's not the case, but it's very easy for me to hold a conversation. I've done it on here numerous times and in public. It's not difficult. My point is that each time they have opened up a
position to the public, an internal employee is hired every single time. What's the point of competing with that? Not to be sarcastic, but it reminds me of the rules that were involved in the Express contest...not very well thought out and biased to some extent.
And if you think that my skills are limited to what I told you about, you are waaaay off in your assessment. Frankly I don't feel like spilling all the details of my personal life in a public forum like Scoble did. I think it's crass, unprofessional, and damaging
to your family if anything goes wrong (and something always does). It was a creepy kind of openness that not many others shared. It's also not hard to interview people, although I'm very direct at times (to a fault) and I'm sure I'd get kicked out of one or
two offices and get wrung through the wringer with the pr/legal.

I work in the same part of the Microsoft-world as Charles but in the UK and am part of the team which supports activities like Developer Developer Developer (DDD4).

Firstly, it's cool to see a strong UK prescence on 9 and I didn't even realise Charles was planning a London trip (even though we were having beers in Agra, India a week or two before)

Do you think it would be valuable if we put on a specific C9 thang/corner/get-together at DDD4? Drop me a mail at
markjo@microsoft.com and we can start to organise something and I can approach the powers that be

﻿Here. Let's try this. Your undying enthusiasm for this site is really odd. Are you trying to get hired by them?

If you'd spent more than 5 minutes here you'd know that working for Microsoft is the last thing I want to do (nothing against Microsoft it's just that having worked for IBM, Amdahl, Oracle, Ford and a whole bunch of other companies in the past I feel I've "been
there, done that"). Not that I haven't had friends inside who've tried to persuade me to go for interview. I prefer being my own boss although age will undoubtedly start making that more difficult as time goes on.

I too have been a coder, a software architect and a bunch of other things. None of which bears any relevance to posting stupid comments like "Does this constitute drinking on company time?". What exactly was the point you were trying to make, other than to
make some pathetic snarky comment? And so what if it HAD been on company time (as stated above, it wasn't) - who cares?

fdisk wrote:

Why do I feel like you have this huge chip on your shoulder?

I see absolutely nothing in Sabot's post (to which your quote above was a reply) that would indicate that. Your posts on the other hand.....

footballism wrote:

Ian is really really an old man. I am just curious whether or not he's still writing code

Well thanks for making my day!

I've been self-employed as a "developer/lead developer" for the last 10 years (spent a brief period as an architect but missed the hands-on and took a rate cut to move back to being lead developer in that same organisation). The longest down time I've had
between contracts has been 4 weeks (my choice - I wanted to go to New Zealand) so yeah, I still write code and people seem to be happy to keep paying me to keep writing code and (touch wood) renewing a contract has never been a problem - when I've left a company
it's always been my choice.

I think the problem for most of my clients over the last 10 years is they've typically hired all those wet-behind-the-ears youngsters who are too focussed on what's "cool" rather than what's cost-effective or what their customers want, so they hire an old fart
like me to pick up the pieces of disasterous projects and mentor the silly young puppies

rory wrote:

﻿Bloody hell, Ian. I miss you

I'm flattered! Miss you too, mate. Not going to make Tech-Ed this year but seriously thinking about Mix-07 as I've never been to Vegas and it's a chance to mix business with pleasure. Hopefully you might be there with Channel 9?

sabot wrote:

Ian/Barry/Sarah wanna come ?

Hard for me to commit to anything at the moment - things are incredibly manic on the work front with a deadline at the end of October that can't be moved. I've also (somewhat optimistically given the work situation) got a ton of stuff on with the London Film
Festival which continues through that weekend.

DDD4 will be better for me, or if you push things over into November I'm hoping to have a free weekend then and could manage a trip oop North.

sabot wrote:

Ian does great hugs

You're still sulking 'cos I said I didn't fancy you, aren't you!

I'm not a "huggy" person other than with people I know really, really well. Or with women who offer a hug first and seem far less hung up about that sort of thing than guys.

fdisk wrote:﻿Here. Let's try this. Your undying enthusiasm for this site is really odd. Are you trying to get hired by them?

If you'd spent more than 5 minutes here you'd know that working for Microsoft is the last thing I want to do (nothing against Microsoft it's just that having worked for IBM, Amdahl, Oracle, Ford and a whole bunch of other companies in the past I feel I've "been
there, done that"). Not that I haven't had friends inside who've tried to persuade me to go for interview. I prefer being my own boss although age will undoubtedly start making that more difficult as time goes on.

I too have been a coder, a software architect and a bunch of other things. None of which bears any relevance to posting stupid comments like "Does this constitute drinking on company time?". What exactly was the point you were trying to make, other than to
make some pathetic snarky comment? And so what if it HAD been on company time (as stated above, it wasn't) - who cares?]

Nice ending line there. Some places fire you for getting trashed on the job. But since you don't work in a machine shop with heavy equipment...

irascian wrote:

﻿I see absolutely nothing in Sabot's post (to which your quote above was a reply) that would indicate that. Your posts on the other hand.....

And I see trends.

irascian wrote:

rory wrote:﻿Bloody hell, Ian. I miss you

I'm flattered! Miss you too, mate. Not going to make Tech-Ed this year but seriously thinking about Mix-07 as I've never been to Vegas and it's a chance to mix business with pleasure. Hopefully you might be there with Channel 9?

I'm flattered! Miss you too, mate. Not going to make Tech-Ed this year but seriously thinking about Mix-07 as I've never been to Vegas and it's a chance to mix business with pleasure. Hopefully you might be there with Channel 9?

Must. Not. Barf.

You might be a bit less likely to barf if you knew that Ian and I have been friends to some extent for a while now - we've kept in contact through email, and I genuinely miss his company even though I only got to hang out with him for a little while.

He's a nice guy. Enthusiastic. And he welcomes you to his country with Dr. Who swag

hehe, Charles got real quiet when all the 3rd parties started talking trash at Waterloo station.

I wanted to listen to them, rather than spray my opinion on them. To me, listening to Niners (to any customer, really) in a neutral setting, like a pub in a London train station, is a great way to learn about what matters to people who rely on our software.
I thought they had great points about WGA and emotional feedback is just as important (in my opinion) as automated bits and bytes and crash data.

footballism wrote: Ian is really really an old man. I am just curious whether or not he's still writing code

Well thanks for making my day!

I've been self-employed as a "developer/lead developer" for the last 10 years (spent a brief period as an architect but missed the hands-on and took a rate cut to move back to being lead developer in that same organisation). The longest down time I've had
between contracts has been 4 weeks (my choice - I wanted to go to New Zealand) so yeah, I still write code and people seem to be happy to keep paying me to keep writing code and (touch wood) renewing a contract has never been a problem - when I've left a company
it's always been my choice.

Ian, you know, it's quite unusual in China to have old man like you still write code, there is an old saying in Chinese software industry, it goes like: if you cannot get promoted before the age of 33, you've got no chane in this trade, you should quit...

irascian wrote:

I think the problem for most of my clients over the last 10 years is they've typically hired all those wet-behind-the-ears youngsters who are too focussed on what's "cool" rather than what's cost-effective or what their customers want, so they hire an
old fart like me to pick up the pieces of disasterous projects and mentor the silly young puppies

So, Ian, could you please tell me how many old men in your age who still write code in your country?

Blowdart - I won't comment on your opinion on DPE UK, since I work there, *ahem* (shame you feel that way). But, out of interest where you from originally in Norn'Iron?? (I'm from Holywood originally...)

﻿Blowdart - I won't comment on your opinion on DPE UK, since I work there, *ahem* (shame you feel that way). But, out of interest where you from originally in Norn'Iron?? (I'm from Holywood originally...)

Coleraine.

I like some of the people I've met there, shame Melita moved, but pah, not technical, can't present? My arse

Mind you Ed Gibson did call me hilarious last month when I was on a round table discussion with him.

MarkJ wrote:﻿Blowdart - I won't comment on your opinion on DPE UK, since I work there, *ahem* (shame you feel that way). But, out of interest where you from originally in Norn'Iron?? (I'm from Holywood originally...)

Coleraine.

I like some of the people I've met there, shame Melita moved, but pah, not technical, can't present? My arse

Mind you Ed Gibson did call me hilarious last month when I was on a round table discussion with him.

Ahhhhhhh, the land of university layabouts and cheddar. Spent too many afternoons in Portstewart/rush drinking with mates at UUC.

Melita has since departed these fine shores for her native land, good move I say if Lord of the Rings is anything to go by

If you ever see me at a Microsoft shindig/event then drop by and say hi

﻿hehe...that video was great...funny in the video Ira says not to feed the trolls yet replies to fdisk on this very thread *ahem*.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt but you're right it's very quickly become obvious that we have another troll in our midst.

I was specifically talking about Beer, Orbit 86 and then Eagle - people who post many many threads that people could never stop from responding to. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think fdisk has posted that many threads.

I think when someone's only made a few postings you have to give them the benefit of the doubt, otherwise you end up with situations like the guy who posted in the last day or two he was afraid of posting because "half" (!!!) the people who post here get called
trolls. There have been days when someone new has come in, posted on a "sensitive" subject and immediately got flamed unnecessarily.

Absolutely a great video! Here’s hoping we can see more like this in future.

Re: the discussion on WGA

While I haven’t done any footwork to confirm my theory... I suspect that WGA is really just ‘activating’ your PC again with the same rules that apply to the initial activation.

Example: A buddy of mine had a pirated copy of Windows (that was installed for him by the guy that built the PC (not a shop)) and getting sick of a couple of issues (pre WGA) that kept him from updating, he installed the copy of Windows XP that came with his
GF’s laptop. All was well... until WGA started nagging him.

I’ve seen cases in past where the regular activation didn't take too kindly to PC oscillation... that is to say where one activates on PC1, then later on PC2, and then again later on PC1 again... or even PC3. Heck, I ran into this when I built my new PC back
in February where previously I had recently activated my copy of XP multiple times on the old PC... but suddenly when I moved to the new one it said NO! All I had to do to keep the online activation from screaming wait to wait a couple of months to get the
activation servers to forget about the old PC (which no longer had this copy installed onto it).

I suspect that WGA does a similar thing... by forcing PC’s to call home more often, it is easier to detect multiple installs that occurred say... 6 months apart and which might not be caught by the initial activation.

Just in case anyone's interested the Larkware site that Dave mentioned (which each day summarises interesting stuff found on the web for .NET developers) can be found here:
http://www.larkware.com/ - definitely worth subscribing to their feed and checking the daily update if you're a .NET developer.

Cheers for that link good site, I've read a few books by Mike Gunderloy.