INCREASING STATIC / Relationship between KNBR, Giants no longer a family affair

For 27 years, the alliance has held firm. The Giants and KNBR stuck together through the chilly seasons of empty seats at Candlestick Park, and the radio station provided the soundtrack for the team's golden era in its beautiful new ballpark starting in 2000.

At a time when some major-league baseball teams are dumping long-standing radio-rights deals and even buying stations to air their games themselves, the Giants and KNBR (680 AM) trumpet their loyalty to each other.

But they don't pretend the relationship doesn't have its combative moments, as it did famously last summer when late-night talk-show host Larry Krueger blasted the team's "brain-dead Caribbean hitters" and manager Felipe Alou in a rant that got him fired.

Just how combative things have become is open to debate.

Former KNBR program director Bob Agnew, who was fired along with Krueger and producer Tony Rhein in the aftermath of the Krueger case, said that since the team moved into the new park the relationship has changed dramatically.

giantsXX_df_002.jpg KNBR broadcaster Jon Miller introduced Willie Mays during Mays' 75th birthday celebrations.
Event on May 14, 2006 in San Francisco. The San Francisco Giants played the Los Angeles Dodgers at AT&T Park on May 14, 2006. Deanne Fitzmaurice / The Chronicle MANDATORY CREDIT FOR PHOTOG AND SF CHRONICLE/ -MAGS OUT less

giantsXX_df_002.jpg KNBR broadcaster Jon Miller introduced Willie Mays during Mays' 75th birthday celebrations.
Event on May 14, 2006 in San Francisco. The San Francisco Giants played the Los Angeles Dodgers ... more

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INCREASING STATIC / Relationship between KNBR, Giants no longer a family affair

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"It's gone from a real family partnership to strictly business," he said.

Suddenly, he said, the station and the team were battling each other for corporate sponsors. In place of an informal approach to promotions came an atmosphere in which any new idea by the station required a hard look at the contract. KNBR resented having to pay players to do weekly shows that were basically promotional vehicles for the team, he said.

"When we started negotiating a new deal at the start of 2004," Agnew said, "it really became apparent how strained and how difficult our relationship was."

How often have the Giants objected to things said on KNBR's shows? "Daily," Agnew said. Giants executive vice president Larry Baer, a vigilant watchdog for the club's interests, has always been the Giants' main conscientious objector. "Larry's like me," Agnew said. "Complete tunnel vision."

Several other people familiar with the inner workings of the station and/or the club agreed with his assessment.

However, officials of KNBR and the Giants claim feelings are nowhere near that fractious.

KNBR general manager Tony Salvadore, who fired Agnew, said he rarely hears criticism from the Giants and, when he does, he generally doesn't even relay it to the show hosts. He and Baer agree that the relationship has gotten more businesslike, but that's natural for two aggressive organizations under pressure to maximize revenues.

"It's like any business partnership," Baer said. "At times it's contentious. It's never personal. At times there's stuff on the air that might bug us. But you know what? We have zero control over it. ... We're way past the notion of thinking a talk-show host is in business solely to promote the Giants."

He said all 30 MLB teams compete with their flagship radio stations, over-the-air TV affiliates and cable-TV affiliates for "a finite number of sponsors." As for conflicting sponsors, such as the Giants' Bank of America and KNBR's Wells Fargo, Baer said, "It's a bigger business (compared with the Candlestick days). Rights are spelled out more precisely."

On the issue of KNBR's having to pay players for regular shows, the Giants point out they too have to pay players for personal appearances.

Agnew, now program director at KNEW (910 AM) and KQKE (960 AM) said the seeds of discord between the Giants and KNBR were sown several years before the Krueger flap. In the 2000 playoffs, the Giants were eliminated by the Mets in a four-game series. After the finale, a 4-0 loss, KNBR hosts jumped on then-manager Dusty Baker for starting Mark Gardner over Livan Hernandez (on three days' rest) and for letting Gardner bat for himself with the bases loaded in the fifth inning; he popped out, ending the Giants' only threat.

"Dusty thought we were the evil empire," Agnew said.

The following year, insiders say, it was hard for KNBR to get Giants' players to come on its shows because they felt Baker had been unfairly savaged.

Two other developments occurred off the field and further frayed relations. In 2001, Major League Baseball created its Internet division, Advanced Media (MLBAM), so KNBR and other flagship stations could no longer stream game broadcasts on their Web sites, or even use team logos without the permission of MLB.

In 2004, MLB announced a $650 million deal with XM Satellite Radio to air the local broadcasts of all games. Each club got a portion of that pie, but the local stations received no additional advertising revenue because satellite audiences don't count in radio ratings.

"At least if there was a revenue share ..." Agnew said. "We didn't get a kiss."

What further annoyed KNBR was that the XM deal came just three months after the station signed its latest deal with the Giants. Station officials thought they should have been told of the satellite deal so it could have figured in their new agreement. Baer insists he didn't find out about the XM agreement until after the local deal was done.

In hindsight, Salvadore says the XM agreement doesn't affect KNBR at all. "It's a marketing ploy on XM's part," he said. "It's great if you're in Kansas driving across the country. But if somebody's listening in Kansas, I could care less. Our advertisers are local advertisers."

Neither side will reveal how much KNBR pays for the rights to air Giants games, but it's estimated to be around $5 million-$6 million a year. The current five-year deal runs through 2009.

With its 50,000-watt, clear-channel muscle, KNBR is the Barry Bonds of radio stations, one of the most powerful signals in the country. KNBR bills itself as "America's No. 1 sports station" and claims that 1.1 million different people listen to at least a portion of a Giants game in one week. That's an impressive number, considering that nearly every game is televised. The station's signal precludes the need for a vast array of affiliates on the Giants' network. It has just 13 stations. (The St. Louis Cardinals' network has 115.)

Having one flagship station for 27 years has given the Giants a stable home that is the envy of the A's. Giants games typically outdraw A's games on the radio by four or five to one, partly because the A's are constantly changing flagship stations.

Very few flagship stations own part of their teams, but, for the last 13 years, KNBR has owned about 1.5 percent of the Giants. Part ownership enables the station to know how much the club is making or losing, but it doesn't give KNBR any advantage over other stations in bidding for the Giants' contract, according to Baer.

"Like any limited partner, they get our quarterly financial statement," he said, "but anything that relates to broadcast rights or sponsorships or anything that might be tied to future negotiations is redacted."

As much as KNBR features the Giants, only 20-25 percent of its revenues come from the baseball broadcasts, Salvadore said. KNBR also broadcasts 49ers and Warriors games, but those relationships are not as profitable as with the Giants.

Mostly, KNBR's money comes from a whole lot of jabbering. It has a monopoly on sports talk in the Bay Area, and that arrangement serves KNBR very well. In the latest Arbitron ratings, it is fourth in the Bay Area for its target audience of males 25-54 behind KSAN (107.7-FM), KGO (810 AM) and KFOG (104.5 FM). It moves up to No. 1 if you include its sister station, KTCT (1050 AM), which simulcasts the popular afternoon drive-time show of "The Razor and Mr. T," Ralph Barbieri and Tom Tolbert.

KNBR stands only 18th overall in the Bay Area for all listeners 18 and over, but Salvadore said those numbers are meaningless because advertisers target far more specific audiences. "In our business, 18-plus is not a demographic, it's a family reunion," he said.

What attracts listeners to sports-talk radio isn't cheerleading; it's forthright opinions and a willingness to blast away -- even at the home team's expense -- when a blast is warranted. When the station is also in bed with a big-league team, that can lead to friction. The problem is hardly unique to San Francisco. Eleven other MLB teams have flagship stations with all-sports formats. A few others are combinations of news-talk and sports-talk.

Sports-talk is usually less vitriolic here than it is on the East Coast, where fans tend to be more passionate about their teams. But when the Giants struggle, many of KNBR's talk-show callers come out swinging, and, often, so do the hosts.

"If there's any credibility to be gained in what we do, we need to be critical when it's called for," Salvadore said. "We're not journalists. We're opinion guys."

Some teams, including the Giants, think hosts have occasionally gone overboard. The Mets have had run-ins with their flagship, WFAN-AM. The Dodgers were so upset with the criticism they were taking on their flagship, KXTA-AM, that they dumped the station after the 2002 season. As a further example of how volatile the industry is, there are already rumblings that the Dodgers will jump ship again after their contract with KFWB-AM runs out next year.

KNBR admits its loyalties are divided. "I'd be totally false and disingenuous if I told you we're not fans of the Giants and hope they are successful on the field," Salvadore said. "We pay the Giants an enormous amount of money to carry the games." Referring to the station's other role as a critical watchdog for the fan, he said, "It's a tightrope that we walk."

Several former employees of KNBR say Salvadore has often encouraged some hosts to criticize the Giants or manager Alou as long as they could back it up.

When it comes to knocking the Giants, KNBR tries to adhere to this approach: What's inside the lines is fair game; what's not is not. Sometimes, though, it's not easy to make the distinction. "If you don't think we're critical of the Giants when they deserve it," Salvadore said, "then you don't listen to the station."

Steroids? "That's a national story that affects the game," he said. Mark Fainaru-Wada and Lance Williams, the Chronicle reporters whose recent book, "Game of Shadows," documents Bonds' alleged steroid use, have been guests at least a half-dozen times, Salvadore said. The issue of whether or not Giants management knew of or condoned any steroid use by players has also been fair game.

Some KNBR hosts have been accused of being homers, none more so than 22-year veteran Barbieri, who bristles at that label.

"I think I've been as critical as anybody on KNBR when the situation is called for," he said. "I was considered part of the 'lunatic fringe' when I thought they should get Vladimir Guerrero (as a free agent in 2004)."

On general manager Brian Sabean's show later that year, Barbieri pressed his case that the Giants hadn't spent enough on payroll -- to the point that Sabean hung up on him. "He thought he was blindsided," Barbieri said. "That (acrimony) lasted for about 10 minutes."

He said he has never been told by the current or recent station management to be either more critical or more supportive. "I can tell you in all candor that I do my show with blinders on," he said. "I know Tom (Tolbert) unabashedly says what he thinks about things. When we feel the Giants are sucking, we say so."

The only time he was ever told to lighten up on Giants personnel, he said, was during his first year at the station, 1984. Then-general manager Bill Dwyer was concerned that Barbieri's criticism of manager Frank Robinson might jeopardize the skipper's participation on his own KNBR show.

Rick Barry, the Hall of Fame star of the Warriors in the 1960s and '70s who co-hosts the afternoon show, said he's never been told "what I can and cannot say. Obviously you use discretion in what you do. You don't take any cheap shots at them. If you do, you'd probably be called on the carpet."

His partner, Rod Brooks, said his approach is: "Give your opinion, but don't get personal. If you do that, nobody's going to have a problem with the basis of your opinion." He said he hasn't been "called on the carpet" in nine years at KNBR, but added, "I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I tick (the Giants) off."

Newcomer Damon Bruce said he expected to get a list of do's and don'ts about the Giants but instead found out he had "complete journalistic control." He said, "For those who would say KNBR is nothing but a 24-hour commercial for the Giants, I can't speak for anybody else here, but the only agenda I'm advancing is my own."

The man he replaced on the late-night show might have thought he had complete journalistic control, too. Instead, Larry Krueger became a flash point in the KNBR/Giants relationship. Krueger was often encouraged by station management to feel free to rip the Giants, Agnew said. Nearly everybody agrees he went over the line -- just how far was a matter of debate -- when he attacked them in August.

"I just cannot watch this brand of baseball any longer," he said on the air. "A truly awful, pathetic, old team that only promises to be worse two years from now. It's just awful. It really is bad to watch. Brain-dead Caribbean hitters hacking at slop nightly." He also said manager Alou's "mind has turned to Cream of Wheat."

Krueger soon apologized and was suspended for a week. KNBR officials assumed that when Alou said on ESPN's "Outside the Lines" that Krueger shouldn't lose his job that the storm was over. It was just beginning. Alou had also referred to Krueger as "a messenger of Satan" and KNBR's morning crew poked fun at the comment by packaging it with a sound track of irreverent comedy routines. This time, not only was Krueger fired, but Rhein, the morning producer, and Agnew were gone as well.

Agnew calls himself "the absolutely 100 percent total scapegoat" in the affair because he had no idea that the sound track routine on Alou would be aired. He said KNBR fanned the flames in the incident in its effort to oust Krueger, whom Agnew called "a constant thorn" to the Giants. In his opinion, the firings would not have happened if the station hadn't been in the process of being sold by Susquehanna to Cumulus Media and four private equity groups.

In lawsuits against KNBR, Krueger and Rhein argued they were fired to appease the Giants so they wouldn't terminate their contract. Salvadore and Baer deny the Giants had anything to do with the firings.

"The sale of the station had no bearing at all," Salvador added. "The newspaper people concocted this magnificent story: 'They're for sale. They needed to protect (the Giants).' Pure fabrication."

Baer said, "Sure, there were times we disagreed or were irked by things (Krueger) said. Not once in the process did we ask for him to be fired."

Salvadore wouldn't comment on why Agnew was fired. Krueger, who now works for KGO and a station in Sacramento, KHTK (1140 AM), wouldn't comment on the firings, citing the terms of his settlement with KNBR.

Although clubs can be sensitive to jabs on the airwaves, they're a lot more interested in money. And some are willing to dissolve long-standing loyalties to do it. Last year the Cardinals dumped their 51-year affiliation with powerful KMOX-AM and purchased a 50-percent stake in KTRS-AM. The move has been very unpopular with Cards fans who were used to KMOX's very strong signal. The Boston Red Sox recently threatened to buy their own station, and the threat led to a better deal with flagship WEEI-AM.

Might the Giants buy a station -- or at least threaten to -- when the KNBR contract runs out in 2009?

"If you look at what's happening around the industry, both in radio and television, you can say there's some chance that could happen," Baer said. But he added, "We would not have been with KNBR for 27 years if we didn't think that, overall, the relationship is a huge positive."

Salvadore said he isn't worried. "On paper, buying a station looks like a good idea; in practice it's very difficult," he said. "The Cardinals' upside advertising (on KTRS) is nowhere near where they thought it would be. ... I predict it will fail."

Perhaps the message to Giants fans on this issue is the same one the club and KNBR stress: Stay tuned.

"Its like any business partnership. At times its contentious. Its never personal. At times theres stuff on the air that might bug us." -- Larry Baer, Giants Executive Vice President

"If theres any credibility to be gained in what we do, we need to be critical when its called for. Were not journalists. Were opinion guys." -- Tony Salvadore, KNBR General Manager