An early preview of the Carolina Hurricanes future at the forward position

Three years ago when Ron Francis inherited the Carolina Hurricanes general manager duties from Jim Rutherford, the team was woefully short on forward talent across the board — top level NHL players, depth at the NHL level and the prospect pool. The forward crew included Patrick Dwyer, Chris Terry, Andrej Nestrasil, Jay McClement, Jiri Tlusty, Riley Nash, Nathan Gerbe and Riley Nash. Of that group, only Riley Nash is still playing at the NHL level. Atop the team’s depth chart at forward at the time was Zach Boychuk, and there was a dearth of high-end prospects on the way to help.

From that group of depth forwards from the 2014-15 season, only Riley Nash is still playing at the NHL level.

Entering the 2015-16 season, the Carolina Hurricanes were still struggling just to fill out a top 9 with capable players and by my math were two or three players short. That version of the team also had an old school fourth line that aimed to fill a niche role with penalty kill duty, limited minutes and light scoring. And maybe most significantly, the prospect pool did not seem likely to provide much near-term help.

Restocking via the trade deadline

Since inheriting a forward group that was sub-par, Francis has been steadily at work. His first two years at the helm focused heavily on stocking the prospect pool for the future.

During the trade deadline for the 2014-15 season, Francis traded Andrej Sekera, Jiri Tlusty and Tim Gleason for defenseman Roland McKeown and four draft picks.

During the trade deadline for the 2015-16 season, Francis traded Eric Staal, Kris Versteeg and John-Michael Liles and netted forward prospects Aleksi Saarela and Valentin Zykov in addition to six draft picks.

During the trade deadline for the 2016-17 season, Francis traded Viktor Stalberg and Ron Hainsey for two more draft picks.

In the three drafts from 2015 to 2017, the Carolina Hurricanes used five more draft picks than the standard seven given to each team. The team used 15 of those draft picks to add to its forward prospect pool to go with Saarela and Zykov who were acquired via trade.

Step-wise progress with the growing group of prospects saw six Hurricanes prospects move up to the professional ranks for the 2017-18 season.

In short, the prospect pool for forwards is significantly deeper today as compared to three years ago.

Opportunistically filling out the NHL ranks

In addition to restocking the prospect pool, Francis capitalized on salary cap and other opportunities to add a handful of NHL level forwards at minimal cost in terms of trading from the stockpile of draft picks and growing prospect pool.

Summer of 2014: In his first summer as general manager, Francis focused on the long-term only adding depth forwards Jay McClement and Brad Malone. Early in the season, Francis also added Andrej Nestrasil with a waiver wire claim.

Summer of 2015: Francis added Kris Versteeg (who was later flipped) and Joakim Nordstrom more or less at no cost in taking advantage of the Chicago Blackhawks’ salary cap challenges. Francis also made a low-risk depth addition when he signed free agent Derek Ryan to a two-way contract.

Summer of 2016: Early in the offseason, Francis went back to the well in terms of capitalizing on the Blackhawks’ salary cap issues when he added Teuvo Teravainen for only second and third round draft picks and taking on Bryan Bickell and his contract to provide the cap relief that the Blackhawks needed. The summer of 2016 also saw Francis more or less start fresh with his depth forwards when he did not re-sign Brad Malone, Chris Terry, Riley Nash or Nathan Gerbe. Viktor Stalberg was added for depth, and Francis dipped into the free agent pool to add a top 9 forward for the first time when he signed veteran right wing Lee Stempniak to a two-year deal.

Summer of 2017: After trading Viktor Stalberg at the trade deadline not re-signing Jay McClement, Francis entered the offseason again needing to fill out his fourth line and more significantly seeking a scoring boost for an offense that finished the 2016-17 season 20th in terms of goal scoring. With some big names available but seemingly costly on the trade market, Francis instead chose to sign veteran Justin Williams and then add veterans Josh Jooris and Marcus Kruger to build out the fourth line.

The 2017-18 season potentially as the transition year

With a growing stable of young prospects but minimal NHL or in most cases even AHL experience, Francis and Peters chose to go with a fourth line that was heavy on defense and experience but light on scoring potential. After sticking with that plan for two-thirds of the season, the team finally punted on both of the veteran checking line additions (Josh Jooris and Marcus Kruger) when both were sent waived and sent to the AHL last week. I tracked through their 2017-18 season and the fourth line’s struggles in some detail last week.

One short-term impact of the Jooris and Kruger demotions has been Elias Lindholm’s at least temporary move to the center position. The domino effect is that the Hurricanes instantly became four lines deep in terms of having at least one if not two players capable of scoring 40+ points on each of four lines.

Though the transition is maybe not complete and could be dependent on the emergence of another player or two from the prospect pool, the change is a major step in the direction of what I believe is the future of the Carolina Hurricanes forward group and also the direction of most, if not all, top NHL teams going forward.

The next step

To be clear, I continue to think that the Hurricanes need to add one more higher-end offensive player to the mix. Offensive depth is critical in today’s NHL, but I view it more as table stakes to be a top team in the NHL of the near future and not a means of making up for lack of high-end scoring ability.

But while Francis figures out if there is a path to making one higher-end upgrade, the transition to being 12 deep at forward is well underway. Despite being on target, I would not consider it a done deal. The final step in this transition requires adding another player or two probably from the prospect ranks who can be sound defensively but also provide more than old school scoring potential.

The list of possibilities to add another forward or two from the prospect pool is large, but the list of sure things especially for the 2018-19 season is exactly zero. Possibly swayed by the rapid rise of players like Brett Pesce, Jaccob Slavin and Sebastian Aho, some Canes fans are of the opinion that you can use AHL play to gain 100 percent assurance of NHL-readiness. It simply does not work like that. AHL experience and mastery is a valuable step and positive indicator of NHL-readiness, but until a player steps into the NHL and gives it a go against the world’s best, one cannot say for sure if they are ready or what level they are capable of playing at. Some players just seem to rise to the occasion instantly. Others struggle and either need more time to prepare or just peak as good AHL players.

But the positive for the Hurricanes especially if one looks out two or more years is the sheer volume of possibilities. Because of the depth and variety in the team’s forward prospect pool, the team is not making a bet on a single player or two. Rather, the Hurricanes are playing the odds with a number of prospects with varying skill sets. The odds of any individual player working out are uncertain, but with many options the odds that someone works out is reasonably high.

How and when?

The question is when the last step in the transition will occur and what must happen to trigger it. I voted for adding an AHL player or two to the mix when Kruger and Jooris were put on waivers. But thus far, Peters has played the remaining NHL lineup for two games, and the team has yet to even recall a forward to fill the #13 slot. With two wins in those games and the Hurricanes in the thick of the playoff chase, Coach Bill Peters will undoubtedly stick with a very similar lineup at least until the team loses. Even after that, Peters’ seeming bias for defensive soundness over offensive prowess on the fourth line creates a bias for going with NHL experience. Only if the team begins to struggle again offensively (which is completely possible) would I expect Peters to do anything drastic in terms of inserting multiple AHL players. The team will need to add a healthy extra at some point, but especially if it keeps winning and stays healthy, the next phase of the transition may wait until the 2018-19 season.

The key will be for Peters to have the guts to give young players real NHL ice time, play them in most situations and live with a few mistakes on the path to a better lineup and deeper scoring. I think this goes slightly against Peters’ DNA as a coach whose foundation is sound play and could present a bit of a challenge working through some growing pains to eventually reach a higher level of play. While injuries or lack of scoring could force another step forward earlier, I think the project starts in earnest in training camp before the 2018-19 season.

What is the end game?

The end game is to fill all 12 forward positions with players who are capable of at least high 30s in points depending on utilization and role. Important to note is that this is NOT the same as saying it is possible to build a fourth line that has three players who actually score high 30s in points. Because of limited power play ice time and slots and the fact that the rhythm of an NHL game has stretches where three lines can be enough, the bottom line will still be limited in scoring. But there are two gains to be had. First is that a fourth line equipped with capable offensive players will score more than a pure checking line from the NHL of old. In addition, having 12 capable scorers in the lineup means that injuries to top 9 forwards have much less impact on offensive fire power, and the coach has more options to make line changes either in game or during ruts to try to jump start the scoring.

As far as specific players go, I think the goal for the Hurricanes is to become deep enough with players who are defensively competent but with offensive upside such that players like Joakim Nordstrom get pushed to the #13 slot when the team is healthy. Further, as much as I like Brock McGinn’s play this year and am open to the possibility that he forces his way into the top 9 even when the next wave of young players arrive, pushing McGinn down to the fourth line would be a sign that 12-forward depth has fully arrived.

So picture a Carolina Hurricanes forward group that adds one more higher-end scoring forward which bumps everyone down a notch. Then picture a team where Brock McGinn continues to be a going concern each and every shift in terms of intensity but still has to fight to stay in the top 9 not because he is not capable but rather because others are too. And picture a lineup such that Joakim Nordstrom logically slots at #13 as extra depth simply because younger players can nearly match what does defensively but with significantly higher offensive upside. Finally, picture a lineup where the gap in terms of talent and scoring potential between the top 9 and the fourth line is negligible such that Peters has extra options at his disposal to try to spark a scoring line either in game or during a rut. The transition requires a final step and is uncertain in terms of volume of growing pains and exact schedule, but I believe that is where the Carolina Hurricanes are headed.

My hope is to spend a few minutes handicapping the group of players most likely to compete for NHL roster spots sooner rather than later, but that will have to wait for another day and another Daily Cup of Joe article.

Go Canes!

31 Comments

powerless
on February 13, 2018 at 5:58 am

Thanks, Matt. This piece serves to give me historical perspective on just how Ronnie has built this team.

I did want also to comment on our two recent victories and our two defensemen who are competing for one job. Although, for the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone can see how Hayden can beat out Klas for the job. The one goal Colorado scored was thanks to Hayden’s patented “deer in the headlights” stare while the scoring play was set up. When Klas had his chance, and Scott Darling told him that Darren Archibald was “whacking ” him, Klas dropped the gloves with the guy. Scott said that Klas is a great team mate. Hayden had better wake up and play hockey. Or not. I don’t care, so long as we have Klas Dahlbeck.

All rookie defensemen have ‘deer in headlights’ moments. Fleury will be fine. Speaking of fine, McKeown has had a fine season in Charlotte (+29) and played well in his lone NHL game. I know this article is about future forwards developing, but I say this because McKeown is likely NHL ready or close to. Which means he may be the key to unloading Faulk for the above mentioned forward upgrade (slotting everyone down a notch). This might be GMRF’s master plan, we shall see?

I must respectfully disagree. Fleury is too timid and is prone to being caught unaware when he should be aggressive as well as having on-ice vision. Many rookies show that they can’t cut it in the NHL. I believe that he is showing us that he is not up to it.

powerless, I agree with gocanes0506. Fleury for sure has had his “what happened” moments and even some real bad games. But in the last two games he has played he has consistently skated the puck up the ice and jumped into the offense. Overall, he has not had a bad year defensively in the NHL considering his experience. This is his first year. IMO we need to give him a little room to grow into a first or second pairing defenseman. I am looking for him to continue to improve both on defense and offensively and willing to give him time to do it.

Matt–the salient point is that there are numerous players in Charlotte who are ready or should be ready next season: Zykov, Wallmark, Foegele, Saarela, Roy, Kuokkanen. Necas should be in Raleigh next year as he is making significant progress, at least statistically, playing with mature professionals in Czech league. Even Luostarinen has started to hold his own in the Liiga.

I am not going to argue that team shouldn’t make an offer to JVR or perhaps an older UFA for a 2-year deal similar to Williams. But I will state that the offensive future of the Hurricanes is within the organization. And that future (I made this point in an earlier comment) will look much like Boston this year. One or two of the younger players will become a 20 goal/50 point producer. That added to Skinner and Aho being 30 goal scorers and Teravainen and Lindholm being 60 pt players, will mean there are three scoring lines. Then, as you identify, at least two of the fourth-liners will be capable of getting 10-12 goals a year (I am not sure it will be as easy as you think to replace Nordstrom’s ability to disrupt on the penalty kill and whenever he is on the ice).

Fogger made the comment yesterday–the NHL is becoming a four-line league. At some point most if not all teams will do their best to ice lines that can contribute for at least 13 minutes per game. That is not to say the stars (Aho, Skinner, Necas soon) won’t get the extra important shifts, but the Canes will be able to have four lines that can all contribute on any given night. Again I mention Boston, Heinen and DeBrusk are the two youngsters that have propelled them to the top of the league. Carolina has 6-7 prospects that might do that as early as next season.

The biggest challenge for RF, BP, and the staff will be to determine which of the prospects are ready. As the post mentions, there are no guarantees, but the whole point of an AHL affiliate is to be a stepping stone. As of today, at least four players in Charlotte are demonstrating that they are among the best in the AHL: Wallmark, Zykov, Foegele, Saarela. I have to believe their success at that level indicates one or more will be able to add second or third line scoring in the NHL.

I wouldnt shoot down signing JVR just yet. We have plenty of 30-45 scorers in the prospect pool. We need proven goal scorers. Foegele and Zykov may bring scoring with them but it isnt guaranteed. I would agree with Matt that we need top end scoring to make this team whole.
I think something like:
JVR-Aho-Turbo
Kuokkannen-Staal-Zykov
Skinner-Lindholm-Williams
McGinn-Wallmark-Foegele/Nordy

we’d basically be counting on Zykov and Kuokkanen to be 20 goal scorers and don’t have insurance when Skinner goes cold. Necas could be given a chance to get used to smaller ice with a big scoring forward being brought on.

I agree adding a player like JVR could help–was just poorly stated on my part using double negative.

As far as the lines–I am really high on Kuokkanen, but think next year Foegele might actually be the best option for LW in middle six while Kuokkanen gets one more year to get stronger. Foegele has surprised me with his scoring in Charlotte. Otherwise, even the lines without JVR are dynamic. For next season I prefer Lindholm at RW, especially if Necas earns a spot at center in the NHL. The organization is still a little light on right-wingers. Though in the last few drafts several players who can play RW have been drafted (Roy, Mattheos, Geekie).

Finally, when I reread my posts it seems like I am totally supportive of whatever the GM is doing. That is mostly true as I think RF is building a foundation for long-term competitive success. However, I think he and the scouts overvalue size. Sure being taller and heavier is better if all else is equal. But all else is seldom equal. The only player the Canes have drafted in the past three drafts less than 6 feet tall is Aho. His success is not really an outlier. Players like Zuccarello, Tyler Johnson, Brayden Point, and Jaden Schwartz have demonstrated that smaller players can be productive.

This year I hope the Canes draft a smaller forward. I watched a Kingston game on the NHL network because I wanted to watch Jeremy Helvig. Well, I am on the Linus Nyman bandwagon. He fits the “draft a Finn in round 2″ template. And despite his size, he frequently plays in front of the net. He is fast, a scorer, and lately has been scoring goals late to tie or win games. Though he is 5’9”, I think he would be a great addition.

The point you mention is a good one – without JVR a player we don’t even have, that lineup doesn’t look scary and is counting on too many unknowns to make an impact. The Canes need JVR+ on the offensive side of things and the ideal situation is to have proven scoring depth already and make the Charlotte prospects FORCE their way onto the team. I have no doubt Foegele and Wallmark would serve as great 4th liners – but will they be good enough to force solid forwards out of the top 9? Teams don’t need to just have either good roster players OR great prospects needing ice time, having both is the best “problem” a team can have. Those problems allow you to deal from a position of strength – Weber for Subban/ Jones for Johanson type position of strength if your Nashville.

Those are the super high expectations we should be setting for this promising franchise moving forward. JVR would be great, but I want them to add even more. Not just 1. I’d love to see the Canes get 1 via trade, but even this coming free agency imagine if the Canes added 2 out of this group – JVR , Patric Hornquist, David Perron, Rick Nash, Paul Stastny, Tyler Bozak. It would be like them adding 2 more Justin Williams to the current club depending on who they choose, and to me – 2 more Justin Williams in exchange for Derek Ryan/Victor Rask/bumping Mcginn down and Nordstrom out would be a nice upgrade for the Canes.

Then talk about dreaming and they get a guy like Pacioretty or some legit #1 line player plus depth and to me you are getting closer to a championship than a wild card.

In the end of the day there are 30 other fanbases who have Foegeles, Zykovs, etc prospects that they are excited about to make a difference – but even with a Boston comparison who people are talking about as if they are magically great because of their young players – yes their young players have certainly helped but when your core is Pastranak, Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Chara, McAvoy and Rask you are doing fine before we start talking about young players. Whether its good or bad the short term future of the goaltending seems set with Ward and Darling, and the backend is still learning but everyone can see what elite potential that speedy puckmoving group has. So it’s clear the Canes need to focus on the forwards and the only players moving forward that are absolutely essential on a championship team (and i’m factoring in age so that factors Williams OUT) are – Staal, Skinner, Aho, Terevainen, Lindholm, McGinn (Scott Walker comparison by Tripp Tracey on point). Of those guys, I would argue only 1 of them belongs on a championship winning first line (Aho) while the rest are middle 6/bottom 6 guys. So internally or externally I see the Canes having to fill in 4 more spots with difference makers in the forward position for the long term. In a totally optimistic world it’s easy – Zykov, Wallmark, Foegele, Kuokkanen, and Necas could all be the guys. But realistically I think the Canes would be lucky if 2 of those 5 become top 6 forwards at the next level which would leave still 2 more spots to fill.

ct, you have made some good points and your ideas seem well thought out. I just want to comment on your last paragraph. You mention “The biggest challenge for RF, BP….to determine which of the prospects are ready.” The only way you can do this is to put them on the ice (like Boston, Pittsburgh, Vancouver, etc.)in real NHL games (not just exhibitions). If that is not done by BP, then they will always remain as “prospects of unknown NHL ability” and nothing more. Also, I am not looking for our “among the best in the AHL” players to come in and fill out just the second or third line scoring. Unless we are going to improve our first line through trades or free agent signings (not likely), we will need to have a prospect or two come in to bolster the first line and make it dangerous. I would agree with you that it would be okay if the AHL prospects came in and filled out our second and third lines as you say and BP put together a bonafide first line with players currently on the roster. For example, Aho at center, Skinner on a wing, and Teravainen on a wing (just an example of what I am talking about). I would be interested in your thoughts about whether we have the talent on the team right now to fill out a bonafide first line, and if so who would you put on that line.

RR. I do think we have first line talent–maybe even four first-liners (Skinner, Aho, Teravainen, and Lindholm). However, I realize they don’t complement each other, particularly in Peters’ system. So the answer to your question is I like our talent–but will admit it is never going to be Tampa’s first line.

Let me give some examples. I think Skinner/Lindholm/Zykov could be really potent. I have seen three Charlotte games this season. After watching Lindholm feed DiG and McG this weekend, I am confident Zykov would be a 25-goal scorer on a Lindholm line. Because Zykov is really strong in front of the net (remember last year’s one NHL goal against NYR). He also has a great wrister from inside the circles. So with feeds from Lindholm and garbage goals resulting from Skinner’s shots, that would be a line that could proceed 70+ goals. Though Skinner is usually better used matched against other teams’ middle lines as his defense is often disruptive but not consistent enough to match agains the league’s best every shift.

I said in my earlier post maybe Lindholm should remain at RW next season. Again–tough calls for BP and RF.

I think most of us agree that TSA is a first line–at least in the second tier of NHL first lines. Though eventually Aho centering a line with more finishing (we all love Staal’s game, but he hasn’t had a shooting % above 13% for 6 years and that is needed from a scoring center most years) would be closer to true first line.

RR–the answer gets back to how RF and BP are able to use the youngsters. Which is why I have mentioned Boston as a model the last few days. I don’t see Carolina having a first line that rivals a Stamkos/Kucherov first line or a Tavares/Bailey/Lee first line. However, if Skinner gets back to scoring 30 goals and Aho becomes a consistent 30-goal scorer, given TT and Lindholm’s point production, then adding one or two 20-25 goals scorers from within the organization will be enough (again as Heinen an DeBrusk have for the Bruins.) Having scoring throughout the lineup will make the “true first line” moot. Ultimately if Carolina can score 240 goals, it doesn’t matter how those goals are spread among the lines.

ct, thanks for the reply. I see where you stand with how we can improve our offense using internally grown assets (forwards). As usual you’ve got it covered with some sound analysis and reasoning. One thing I really like about your approach is one doesn’t have to dream up some transaction with another team (or teams). The assets you base your analysis on are here and available. Also using your approach, we don’t have to do a “rob peter to pay paul” type transaction with another team that diminishes one area of our roster to bolster another.

There is a difference between being capable of playing on the first line and being a first line talent. Elite players are not enough, but depth and good players everywhere is not enough either. Championship teams for the last many years have always featured a combination of the two.

To respectfully disagree – Lindholm is the easiest player of the bunch to sort out as NOT being a first line calibre player. Lindholm is in the midst of his best goal scoring campaign to date – and he is on pace for guess what – 45 ish points again. At this stage he is what he is – a reliable NHL calibre forward who can net you 40-50 (okay let’s say 60 because every year it’s our fanbases job to predict a lindy breakout) points and play on both secondary special teams. That’s fine – he’s basically a younger Patric Hornquist and somoeone who can certainly play in the middle 6 of a good team.

Skinner is a first line talent that will always be better suited matching up on a lower line because of his offensive style of play. He needs to create offense through attacking defenders so the worse defenders the better.I think many of us can agree that when Skinner is being checked by elite defenders he can be neutralized quite easily and ends up being super ineffective.

Aho sure we can agree he will be a first line talent. Terevainen to me is a good support player who is on pace for his best season yet – but will likely end up with around 54-59 points still short or 60. Considering many of his points have come WITH Aho, I only consider him a first liner in the way I considered Jiri Tlusty a first liner playing with Semin and E Staal (riding shotgun to truly first line players). And to me, I want the Canes to set a higher bar for that. Set the bar so that Terevainen and Skinner are middle 6 left wingers and someone of the calibre of Kucherov/Benn/Pacioretty/Pavelski are your top line players. The Canes are still looking for those guys. They don’t fall off trees, at best they’ve stumbled into 1 (Aho) and in a dream world 2 (Aho and Necas). However they are both so young that it will still be some time before they emerge as elite players

I forgot to add the major benefit of having Skinner on a 3rd line is that he needs to dominate possession and puckhandling so much to be effective that it almost limits the impact his other two linemates can have on the game – so playing him with 2 GREAT players will lead to problems because Skinner will have the puck a lot while the other players waste their talents retrieving it for him. Stempniak is a great partner for him because he is a dogged forchecker who is a good puck retriever – same with Diguiseppe in the past. Skinner works best with those types of players – not guys who would ever form a top line.

Matt Karash
on February 13, 2018 at 11:16 am

Agree on your last point. If the team stays in the playoff hunt, I am fine with Peters doing what he thinks is best to win hockey games and am mostly okay if his leaning is going with players he trusts (which it obviously is).

But EARLY in the 2018-19 season, the team needs to invest some ice time figuring out who is ready to help at the NHL level. This does not mean Peters needs to dedicate 4 lineup slots to rookies, but it does mean he needs to find some ice time and give players meaningful auditions.

Matt. Next season definitely needs to include an early-season audition for Necas and at least one other. Preferably all of Foegele, Zykov, and Wallmark at some point.
Necas might be our Barzal. At the least he and one of the others are likely to produce like Heinen or DeBrincat, who are both producing as well as JVR. Another comparison would be Zykov’s numbers this season and Kyle Connor’s numbers last season in the AHL.

I believe you have indicated before this is a young man’s league. One thing the organization has an abundance of, and hasn’t had in the past, in young talent.

That talent might be better used as trade material, but even then they are worth more if they have shown production in the NHL.

The numbers say Fleury is different based on his partner. With TVR he was a plus 2, had a higher shot percentage for, and had a higher save percentage by .037 (a .971 vs .934). He is a -1 with Faulk.

Corsi favors TVR and Fleury. I will say the one out liner is early in the season Fleury and TVR were a 64% O zone. Fleury and Faulk are 55% O zone. I would expect that number would be more even as BP got comfortable with those Fleury and TVR but, we dont have that option.

Completely agree. As long as we can continue to do it respectfully in good times and bad and in the intended spirit of a neighborhood coffee shop, this will continue to be the single best feature on the site.

Out of the numerous players RF has drafted, or acquired via trade…how many are (or will be) elite?
What do you consider elite?
As of NOW…Aho has 20G 23A 43P TT has 13G 29A 42P …only 40+P guys
Willy has 10G 24A 34P Skins has 16G 17A 33P Staal has 14G 19A 33P Lindy has 15G 17A 32P
No other players higher than 26P
…of course NONE OF THESE GUYS ARE CURRENTLY “ELITE”! (Top50P in league) …my arbitrary cut off of ELITE.
Wouldn’t you rather have ONE ELITE PLAYER…than 2/3 good ones?
It’s clear that “good” is much easier to acquire /replace than ELITE!
…fyi Top 7 points leaders
Kucherov -69 Gaudreau -66 Kessel -65 McDavid -64 Stamkos -64 Giroux -64 Voracek -64
Mediocrity has been RF’S game plan…the Checkers may be as good as the CANES!
Most people are aware that this is not how you compete in the NHL…
I’D PREFER we had a star or two…someone who other teams would worry about!

You’re both right. The Canes need elite talent, but elite talent alone does not get you to the playoffs. But in the playoffs – elite talent gives you a better chance of winning. The Canes have something that many teams with elite talent didn’t even have BEFORE they had elite talent – a great salary cap situation with a prexisting group of young and improving high floor support players plus a fantastic young blueline. Add in elite talent to that equation and to respectfully disagree with Fogger – the Canes plus elite talent would immediately be better than all 3 teams you mentioned due to their pre-existing reliable foundation. But Puckgod is right – The Canes don’t have guys in the top 50 while some teams have multiple guys in the top 50 which is where the Canes need to get to.

Funnily enough, tonight’s game put Aho into the top 50 in scoring (despite missing four games), and Teravainen is right there on his heels. Seems like we got a pretty darn good base we’re building on, doesn’t it?

I think a key thing in considering Haydn Fleury and Klas Dahlbeck is longer-term upside.

At 26 years old and with 4 partial seasons and 137 games of NHL hockey under his belt, he likely is what he might ever become. By my evaluation that is a serviceable #7 defenseman with NHL experience. While that is a slot that must be filled on an NHL roster and the Canes 2016-17 debacle proves it is not an automatic, it is not the kind of position that is impossible to back fill via free agency or ideally system depth.

Say what you want in terms of evaluating Haydn Fleury specifically for 2017-18 (I rate him as having a decent ‘stepping stone’ season.), but his ceiling is much higher. Fleury very much has the skill set of where the Canes and the rest of the NHL are headed which is mobile (<=CRITICAL) NHL defenseman with size and the ability to move the puck. Development is not a sure thing, but I think it is fair to say that at least the potential ceiling for Fleury is much, much higher as a 21-year with a good physical tool set playing in his rookie season.

So while I would leave it to Peters to figure out which of the two players give him the best chance to win in February, March and April of 2018, I would not put these two players in the same category as far as looking forward.

love to hear how you plan on getting the stars? Not too many up for trade.

Our top picks havent materialized into top picks, forcing Lindholm and Hanifin into the league too early. He has built the team with solid depth in the draft (cant blame GMRF for having a cheap owner). 2nd rounders only have a 40% chance of playing 50 games in the NHL. We have 5 on the roster, 1 having a legit top line potential and another being a former all-star. On top of that we have one that get his shot next year.

Cant blame the GM has had peanuts to work with. On top of that, with peanuts he has turned a bottom dwelling pool into a top 5 prospect pool.

It looks like everyone put in a lot of great thought into the future, so I will just say Necas has just as much star potential as Aho did/does. It will be fascinating to see him develop. I also continue to believe that Foegele has the makeup of a very good NHL player.

We may not have the top-end talent that we’d like, but our system is quickly becoming one of the deepest in the league on all levels. I’d say our best bet for a star is Necas more than a trade, but we absolutely have the assets to pull off the right deal in the future. I applaud RF for his patience in a perceived seller’s market.

Fogger. I hope you are correct that Necas is going to be the biggest star on the team. Because I truly believe Aho will be a 75-80 point producer for the next six to eight years. Though he isn’t big, he is as Peters called him hockey strong. Caniacs will see more of him making passes like the first game of the season and breakaways like his most recent goal. If Necas can be as good or better, then Carolina will be Cup favorites from 2021-2026.

We have similar opinions of Foegele—as does Matt—he may be an updated version of Justin Williams. I don’t believe he will be quite as productive as Williams was, but he can be an above average winger given his 200 foot tenacity.