quote:Originally posted by GACspaceguy:So scrapped bolts, washers, pieces in Lucite are not out of the question, as was done during the restoration of Liberty Bell 7?

The Liberty Bell 7 acrylic sales were possible because the Kansas Cosmosphere owned the capsule. The Discovery Channel-funded, Curt Newport-led expedition that recovered the Mercury spacecraft negotiated with NASA and the Smithsonian an agreement to transfer title of the capsule to the Cosmosphere in return for its recovery, restoration and public display.

The F-1 engines (parts) remain the property of NASA. Jeff Bezos and his expedition team have acknowledged NASA's title and have not publicly suggested that they have plans to change that status.

The motivations behind the funding of the two expeditions were different.

So, no, I would not expect to see sales of any flown F-1 engines parts.

RISPACEMember

Posts: 67From: Warwick, RI USARegistered: Jan 2006

posted 03-22-2013 07:53 AM
I have been waiting a long time to see this. Congrats to Jeff Bezos and his crew. The pictures are absolutely incredible.

Even if NASA does not relinquish ownership, at least the world gets to see these very important images of the past thanks to Mr. Bezos. And even if they are not from Apollo 11, they are still from an incredible era in exploration.

It is remarkable on how well the parts have stood up against the elements. But they certainly do tell that tale of how destructive it was to hit the ocean from a high altitude and speed.

Returning to Cape Canaveral for the first time since they were used to launch a giant Saturn V rocket, the recovered parts from two colossal F-1 engines arrived on shore Thursday (March 21) after more than 40 years being lost at sea.

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 03-22-2013 08:01 PM
The Kansas Cosmosphere will be conducting the restoration of the recovered F-1 engines. The museum released this statement today (March 22):

The Cosmosphere applauds Jeff Bezos and his team on their successful mission to recover the historic Apollo Saturn V first stage engine artifacts. The Cosmosphere is proud to be part of the conservation efforts of this amazing mission. The Cosmosphere took part in the restoration of Liberty Bell 7 in 1999 and we recognize the tenacity it takes to bring these historic treasures back from the ocean’s depths. With Liberty Bell 7 in our Museum now, we witness every day how these artifacts inspire young people to explore the possibilities of their futures and careers.

chetMember

Posts: 1416From: Beverly Hills, Calif.Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-23-2013 12:46 AM

quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:So, no, I would not expect to see sales of any flown F-1 engines parts.

You may be surprised, Robert. NASA gave the go-ahead to those Skylab pyramid acrylics (made from recovered fragments that landed in Australia) that still pop up for sale every now and then; maybe we'll see something similar from the F-1 restorations.

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 03-23-2013 01:18 AM
The Skylab fragments were sold for the same reason the Liberty Bell 7 components were sold: NASA relinquished ownership. Though many people in Australia assumed NASA would want the parts back, the space agency made it clear it did not.

Engineers were sent to inspect some of the debris, and NASA agreed to test some samples to identify them as Skylab or not, but then the pieces were returned to their finders.

The Skylab lucites were sold by several companies, including one associated with Pete Conrad.

Of course, anything is possible with regards to the recovered F-1 engines, but as of now, NASA is clear, the parts are all federal property.

apolloprojecktMember

Posts: 1011From: arnhem netherlands Registered: Feb 2009

posted 03-25-2013 05:27 AM
How do we know of these are of the Apollo 11? By serial numbers? I'm curious. There must laying a lot of the Saturn V F-1 on the bottom of the ocean floor.

garymilgromMember

Posts: 1798From: Atlanta, GA, USARegistered: Feb 2007

posted 03-25-2013 06:54 AM
From Robert's story on this topic: "According to Bezos, it is not yet clear on what mission the two engines his team recovered flew".

The historic NASA rocket engine parts raised off the ocean floor by Amazon founder Jeff Bezos have landed at a Kansas museum, where the 40-year-old artifacts' conservation will soon begin in view of the public.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center announced Monday (March 25) the arrival of more than 25000 pounds (11,340 kilograms) of Apollo-era F-1 engine components, which just four days earlier had arrived on shore in Cape Canaveral, Fla.

"Raising these artifacts from a depth of three miles below the ocean surface is a herculean task by itself, and we salute Bezos and his entire team for their perseverance and tenacity in the effort," said Jim Remar, Cosmosphere president and chief operating officer. Remar took charge of the conservation portion of the F-1 engine artifacts as they were offloaded at Port Canaveral to begin their trip to the Hutchinson, Kansas, museum.

The Kansas Cosmosphere will allow the public, both in Hutchinson and online, a chance to watch the conservation effort.

A public observation gallery will soon allow Cosmosphere visitors to see the conservation work in progress. Exhibits about the maritime recovery of these artifacts and others will be housed in the observation area.

In addition, a new website is now under development that will allow the public to watch the progress live online.

tegwilymMember

Posts: 2303From: Crest Airpark (S36) Kent, WARegistered: Jan 2000

posted 03-25-2013 05:40 PM
I hope the plans for sending one to Seattle's Museum of Flight are still in the works.

RISPACEMember

Posts: 67From: Warwick, RI USARegistered: Jan 2006

posted 03-27-2013 01:18 PM
Great news on the conservation efforts and display. I am sure something will be in the works for the 50th Anniversary of Apollo.

Paul78zephyrMember

Posts: 395From: Hudson, MARegistered: Jul 2005

posted 03-27-2013 02:50 PM

Will the exact S-1C that these engines came from be identified?

Will that information be made public?

p51Member

Posts: 1118From: Olympia, WA, USARegistered: Sep 2011

posted 03-27-2013 02:58 PM

quote:Originally posted by tegwilym:I hope the plans for sending one to Seattle's Museum of Flight are still in the works.

Me, too. It'd be such a shame if the man went to the trouble of getting them out of the ocean specifically to be displayed in Seattle, only to have them displayed everywhere but there.

And I'd be saying this no matter where he'd intended for them to be displayed at.

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 03-27-2013 03:03 PM

quote:Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:Will the exact S-1C that these engines came from be identified?

Time will tell; Bezos reported that some of the serial numbers were missing or partially degraded, so mission identification would be difficult. The conservation process now underway at the Kansas Cosmosphere will be producing as thorough a provenance as is possible.

quote:Will that information be made public?

The engine parts belong to NASA, thus you can expect any information learned about them will be in the public domain.

Neil AldrinMember

Posts: 83From: Registered: Feb 2010

posted 03-27-2013 07:11 PM
Any chance that there will be a good documentary on this? Discovery Channel, National Geographic, etc.?

The massive moon rocket engines that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos salvaged from the ocean floor are now undergoing conversation in Kansas and the public is invited to come see.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center will open its new SpaceWorks Observation Gallery on Friday, May 24, where visitors can get a clear view of the conservators as they preserve the parts for two mammoth Apollo Saturn V F-1 rocket engines that powered Americans to the moon. Some of the recovered engine artifacts at the Hutchinson museum weigh as much as 2,000 pounds (907 kilograms), while others are as small as a dime.

"These artifacts give us a magnificent window into history," Kansas Cosmosphere president Jim Remar said. "The F-1 remains the most powerful American liquid-fueled rocket engine ever developed. Studying these [salvaged] engines can provide us a tremendous amount of information about the design of future rockets and spacecraft."

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 05-14-2013 05:10 PM
A few more details about the Cosmosphere's Apollo F-1 Conservation Project tour:

Visitors must first obtain tickets at the Cosmosphere, 1100 N. Plum, where the tour begins in the Hall of Space Museum's Apollo Gallery. Visitors are then shuttled to the Cosmosphere's SpaceWorks division to view the Apollo F-1 conservation efforts underway. No direct access to SpaceWorks is available without the initial gallery tour.

posted 05-14-2013 05:42 PM
Is it known at what speed the first stage hit the water at? Is it a simple case of "terminal velocity", where it really didn't matter from what altitude it fell from the force of impact would have been the same?

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 05-20-2013 04:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by Neil Aldrin:Is it known at what speed the first stage hit the water at?

I am at the Kansas Cosmosphere today for a preview of the F-1 conservation gallery and I asked museum president Jim Remar about the velocity of the impact.

It's a great question. We do not [know]. We know at their apex they were travelling some 6,000 miles an hour. What we don't know is at the point of impact how fast they were going.

An article with more of Remar's comments and photographs from the SpaceWorks Observation Gallery will be published on Tuesday (May 21).

ilbassoMember

Posts: 1501From: Greensboro, NC USARegistered: Feb 2006

posted 05-20-2013 10:33 PM
There's a video of the space shuttle's solid rocket boosters from launch to splashdown which has the velocity of the motor casings displayed during the flight. It's interesting to see them accelerate to thousands of miles per hour but then begin to slow dramatically as they come back into the thicker part of the atmosphere. By the time the parachutes deploy, they're only going a couple hundred miles per hour.

Despite having stood up to the immense thrust needed to launch the mighty Saturn V rocket toward the moon, it turns out that the mammoth F-1 engines that powered the booster's first two-and-a-half minutes of flight were no match for the Atlantic Ocean.

The twisted and tattered remains of at least two engines, salvaged from the seafloor by an expedition organized and funded by Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos, are set to go on public view in Kansas on Friday (May 24) as conservators work to preserve them for generations of museum-goers to come.

posted 05-21-2013 08:24 AM
They recovered two engines which are likely from the same Saturn V vehicle. So two questions:

Were the other three engines not visible or too destroyed?

Will there be efforts to recover engines from another Saturn V?

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 05-21-2013 08:34 AM
Don't assume the parts are all from one Saturn V. As noted in the article, more than two engines' components were raised:

"If you think of an engine as having four components — the turbo pump, the heat exchanger, the thrust structure and the LOX [liquid oxygen] dome — we have two prime pieces of each of those," said [Cosmosphere president and chief operating officer Jim] Remar. "We actually have five thrust structures, three LOX domes, two turbo pumps and two heat exchangers, and then we have one nozzle."

Remar went on to say:

Based on where it was raised, we're probably talking multiple vehicles, in my opinion. I don't have any concrete data on that, but I would be surprised if it all came from one vehicle.

NASA (Headquarters and Marshall), together with Rocketdyne, are trying to locate the records that would allow the parts' serial numbers (either NASA or Rocketdyne numbers) to be traced back to specific vehicles or missions.

HeadshotMember

Posts: 372From: Streamwood, IL USARegistered: Feb 2012

posted 05-22-2013 03:17 PM
Does anyone know if the recovered F-1 engine remnants have been linked to a specific Saturn V/Apollo mission?

When they were recovered, mention was made that part numbers or serial numbers were visible on some components.

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 05-22-2013 03:56 PM
Reference my reply just above yours.

The engine parts' flight history has not yet been identified and may take the better part of the conservation project's expected two years.

David CareyMember

Posts: 408From: Registered: Mar 2009

posted 05-24-2013 12:48 AM
I realize salt water incursion and corrosion (in mangled hardware) are being addressed in the conservation, but it seems a bit ironic that the Cosmosphere has a largely-whole F1 sitting outside and exposed.

Is the outdoor engine display stabilized against the elements with techniques similar to those planned for the Bezos-returned hardware?

Forty-four years (and three days) after it helped launch the first men to walk on the moon, a huge rocket engine part salvaged from the ocean floor has been positively identified as a historic component of the Apollo 11 lunar landing mission.

"I'm thrilled to share some exciting news," Amazon.com founder and CEO Jeff Bezos wrote Friday (July 19) on his Bezos Expeditions website. "44 years ago tomorrow [July 20] Neil Armstrong stepped onto the moon, and now we have recovered a critical technological marvel that made it all possible."

..."One of the conservators who was scanning the objects with a black light and a special lens filter has made a breakthrough discovery – "2044" – stenciled in black paint on the side of one of the massive thrust chambers," wrote Bezos. "2044 is the Rocketdyne [company] serial number that correlates to NASA number 6044, which is the serial number for F-1 Engine #5 from Apollo 11."

After removing more corrosion from the base of the same thrust chamber, the conservator also found "Unit No 2044" stamped into the massive engine part's metal surface.

The historic rocket engine parts that Amazon.com CEO Jeff Bezos salvaged from the seafloor have now been launched online, providing the public a live view of the mutli-year effort to conserve the rare artifacts for future museum displays.

The Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center on Monday (Aug. 26) debuted the "Apollo F-1 Conservation" website, where visitors can learn more about the Apollo Saturn V rocket engine parts and view the work being done to save them.

"This recovery and conservation isn't just important to the Cosmosphere, or even the United States," Jim Remar, the president and chief operating officer of the Cosmosphere, said. "These engines represent a time and a program that effected people across the globe. It was important to us to share the process with explorers from all walks of life, so that they might find their own inspiration in this project."

The private expedition that successfully recovered from the ocean floor historic NASA moon rocket engines was honored in New York on Saturday (March 15) by a venerable group of explorers, including an astronaut who rode to space atop those very same engines.

The Apollo F-1 Engine Search and Recovery Team, as led by Amazon.com founder and chief executive Jeff Bezos, received the Citation of Merit from The Explorers Club, a professional society that promotes scientific exploration of the land, sea, air and space. The award was presented to Bezos by the club's president Alan Nichols and Apollo 11 astronaut Buzz Aldrin, who in 1969 joined Neil Armstrong to become the first men to walk on the moon.

"We were delighted and honored that Buzz Aldrin made the trip to present the award himself," Bezos wrote on his expedition's website on Sunday. "It's a big honor and well-deserved by a truly remarkable group of explorers."

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 03-24-2014 12:00 PM
The Explorers Club has released several photographs of the F-1 engine components on display at its 110th annual dinner (photos by Elliot Severn).

Robert PearlmanEditor

Posts: 30714From: Houston, TXRegistered: Nov 1999

posted 03-24-2014 02:38 PM
The Explorers Club release

Exploring Legends Interview Series with the F-1 Engine Recovery Team

Event open to: Public

Date: May 06, 2014

Time: 6:00pm Reception, 7:00pm Interview

Location: NYC Headquarters, 46 E 70th Street, New York, NY, 10021

The Bezos F-1 Apollo Engine Recovery Team was awarded The Explorers Club Citation of Merit on March 15 at ECAD. Accepting the award was Amazon.com founder Jeff Bezos (MN'14). But in the audience were other team and Explorers Club members including David Concannon (FN'96, Expedition Leader), Ken Kamler (FR'84, Expedition Doctor) and Josh Bernstein (FR'04, Expedition Photographer).

Come hear a behind-the-scenes, no-holds-barred discussion with the three of them and Legends interviewer Jim Clash (FR'99) about the team's historic find last March. Deep-sea survey and recovery technology was used to locate and retrieve - from 14,000 feet of water off the Florida coast - the center F-1 engine from the Saturn S-IC rocket used to launch the Apollo 11 mission in 1969. A few days later, July 20, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin became the first humans to set foot on the moon.

After the interview, as is customary, Clash will open questions up to audience members.

mikejMember

Posts: 414From: Germantown, WI USARegistered: Jan 2004

posted 03-26-2014 07:21 AM
The heat exchanger and injector in the photos above are back at the Cosmosphere SpaceWorks in Hutchinson, Kansas.

Cosmosphere president Jim Remar sent me a link to a Hutchnews story which has additional photos and information.