Igor Bourtsev has submitted to Cryptomundo his response to new criticisms from a Carter Farm neighbor and others to the claims of long-term Bigfoot contact in this specific Tennessee location. The comment from Bourtsev is given below, unedited. ~ Loren.

I am that Russian researcher who visited Carter farm in September, 2004 and lived there for five week. What were my personal encounters?

Please, they are the following:

1) footprints left by one of the creatures in the basement of the house on the loosened by me earth of the floor; the creature had entered the basement for food specially left for it; the food was taken by it from a plastic bag hanging from the ceiling;

2) so-called markers made of logs, wooden poles, sticks, stems, etc., mostly pyramid-shaped, or bent and twisted young trees. Similar markers we have found in hominoid habitats in Russia and they have been reported from elsewhere in North America;

3) BF “nests”, identified in particular by the proximity of the markers and definite signs of handy work;

4) abundant hair found by me in these nests, some hairs with nits (of lice) bigger than human ones. The hair clearly belonged to different specimens. Similar hair samples found earlier at the farm have been identified by Dr.Fahrenbach as BF hair;

5) an interesting artifact: a clay ball with hair in it sticking outside as a small tail. The thing is definitely handmade and is probably some kind of BF toy (according to Janice the BF family there has a one and a half year old baby). ~ Igor Bourtsev, 27 June 2009.

The drawings below are illustrations on file from Igor Bourtev for publication, with his permission. ~ Loren.

Click on the following images for full-size versions.

The first meeting of 7 year old Janice with 28 year old bigfoot Fox in 1972. Her grandfather Robert Carter defended her that time.

The Fox’s mate Sheba with children, as Janice observed them in 1973.

The battle of Fox with a stranger BF. His small (3-4 year old) son Blacky helping him. The same 1973.

The grandfather teaching Fox to cook mashmallow on fire, and

Fox cooking mashmallow himself.

Janice meeting Fox in house’s basement, April 2002.

Above is Igor Bourtsev’s re-creation meeting between Janice Carter and the alleged Tennessee Bigfoot named "Fox," in March 2004, when she allegedly pulled out hair from the creature’s hand when giving him some garlic.

This montage made by Lidia uses Bourtsev’s photograph of Carter with him as a stand-in for the Bigfoot. He reports to me that she was standing in the same dress and position as in March 2004. After Bourtsev’s first attempt at drawing the Bigfoot, Janice Carter corrected it several times with some details, until Lidia achieved and matched the similarity to the scene Carter recalled. This montage photo/drawing is contributed by Dr. Igor Bourtsev to Cryptomundo. You may click on it to see a larger version.

About Loren ColemanLoren Coleman is one of the world’s leading cryptozoologists, some say “the” leading. Certainly, he is acknowledged as the current living American researcher and writer who has most popularized cryptozoology in the late 20th and early 21st centuries.
Starting his fieldwork and investigations in 1960, after traveling and trekking extensively in pursuit of cryptozoological mysteries, Coleman began writing to share his experiences in 1969. An honorary member of Ivan T. Sanderson’s Society for the Investigation of the Unexplained in the 1970s, Coleman has been bestowed with similar honorary memberships of the North Idaho College Cryptozoology Club in 1983, and in subsequent years, that of the British Columbia Scientific Cryptozoology Club, CryptoSafari International, and other international organizations. He was also a Life Member and Benefactor of the International Society of Cryptozoology (now-defunct).
Loren Coleman’s daily blog, as a member of the Cryptomundo Team, served as an ongoing avenue of communication for the ever-growing body of cryptozoo news from 2005 through 2013.

“….abundant hair found by me in these nests, some hairs with nits (of lice) bigger than human ones. The hair clearly belonged to different specimens.”

I look forward to hearing what this (“different specimens”) means and what proof there is of this new claim.

If there were lice, were they identified and classified? Were any scientific papers written denoting the new discovery of unknown lice species that apparently would be the case with an unknown host (Bigfoot)?

Unfortunately, these are merely claims when you get down to it, without any backup evidence.

Yeah, I don’t see how they can definitely identify stray hairs as Bigfoot hair at this point – maybe as an unidentified primate, but not specifically Bigfoot.

Similarly, while it is nice that specifics were mentioned regarding evidence, was anyone who saw this evidence actually bothered to, ya know, take pictures of any of it? No disrespect to Mr. Bourtsev, but, as I don’t know him, I’m not taking him on his word with this stuff.

It sounds like a lot of hair was found, such an abundance should have allowed for at least some DNA to have been extracted.

Is there a peer reviewed paper of this that we may track down and view? Or is there one near completion?

If not almost five years have passed since the data was gathered and ample enough time for analysis of samples has passed. If this is legitimate by all means the scientific papers should be done or near completion.

This whole thing was documented on National Geographic’s “Is It Real” episode on Bigfoot.

Even though Igor is a scientist from Russia, it was quite amusing to watch him “recreate” a Bigfoot kill of a deer on the farm during the episode.

I hate to say it, but he is obviously a very gullible person to believe her claims. It was ridiculous when she claimed the Bigfoot on the property spoke English. Igor should have left right there knowing he was wasting his time. Instead he wrote out a Bigfoot family tree on a picnic table with her. I would have to say that discussion on this topic is a complete waste of time for anyone seriously and honestly investigating the Bigfoot phenomenon.

In these reports I hardly see anything that would be considered “typical” of a historic report of a North American bipedal anthropoid (my definition). The only thing typical in these reports is the apparent nonsense that permeates non-PNW reports, especially those originating east of the Rocky Mountain Range. I really don’t understand why Dr. Bourtsev even considered any of this as remotely factual. I have to say that I receive reports, like those mentioned in this report, on occasion, through my web sites, and non of them ever include any type of photographic or “realistic” physical evidence. Some of my follow-ups on such reports have indicated psychotic tendencies of those reporting such things as “personal encounters”. When they start describing having direct conversations with these animals, especially roasting marshmallows with them, I normally do not waste any more of my valuable time. We have a historic record of “typical” Sasquatch behavior that appears common to these animals, so I really think it is fairly simple to weed out the nuts in such cases.

As far as hair samples are concerned, Sasquatch hair are reportedly lacking medulla which is not indicative of any known primate or North American mammal, so that is usually what is used as a Sasquatch indicator when analyzing hair samples. In any case, I will continue my studies in the PNW, even though I reside in Texas, where I am certain that most of the reports and evidence are truly legitimate, and I do not expect any serious researcher or scientist to put forth any real efforts elsewhere unless they don’t mind wasting their time.

Our latest domestic and international research efforts involve medical doctors, pharmacists and nurses in the pharmacological evaluation and study of the “healing” properties attributed to holistic “herbal remedies and cures” for a variety of shared diseases and conditions. These remedies were/are received from North American Aboriginal Ancient Peoples, and Native American healers. Interesting how medical science takes the “big folks” existence and medicine, seriously while physical scientists and academics scoff at the obvious. Which is all that can be said on this matter for now.

Donald…

Some of our most promising research herbal and otherwise originates in Texas. You were contacted by me personally, a few years ago, a man with your skills and training would be very useful.

Grandma Moses….

Your comments about the absence of commentary on this site regarding the recent Department of Interior, US Fish and Wildlife simulcast to all department heads and guest lecture by Larry Battson, regarding Sasquatch in North America, are important and duly noted.

I do not believe they are intra/interdimensional, I know firsthand they are flesh and blood.

Once again the politics of sasquatchery trump the enigma of sasquatchery.

If Bigfoot is such a predictable animal that reports of its behaviour must be ‘typical’ to be acceptable, then why hasn’t one ever been caught?

Clearly that PROVES Bigfoot doesn’t exist!

Either that or maybe Bigfoot is at least as intelligent as many species of birds which’re demonstrably capable of highly sophisticated useage of human language, (and the primitive voice box type contra argument, for instance, doesn’t necessarily hold up because recent evidence suggests even the likes of the most ‘rugged’ forms of Neanderthal man were capable not just of verbal manipulation but of doing so to a world class opera singing degree).

Similarly, if the likes of crows (even species not known to use tools in the wild), are capable of manufacturing from scratch their own complexly created hooks, then maybe Bigfoot’s capable of learning to toast marshmallows.

I can understand someone ‘suspecting’ a particular area of research isn’t likely to be ‘productive’ for THEM, but when they start demanding everyone else shouldn’t pay it any heed too then they lose me.

In fact I’d even go as far as to say if and when ‘official’ contact is finally made with Bigfoot, (an event which WON’T involve us capturing one of them), a new form of racism will openly come into existence, with many of us humans, (everyone of whom is indisputably smart and sophisticated to an Einsteinian degree), insisting they should only be allowed the rights of animals, not of people.

Hello everyone, its been a looong time since I have posted on here, but this account made me come out of “lurkedom”! First of all, this scientist has not mentioned ANYTHING that the people associated with the Carter Farm could not have FAKED themselves. He is a scientist yet HE cannot take the camera from Ms. Carter and take a picture of the creatures himself? He cannot provide footage of the creatures activities of daily living? He is ASSUMING that the things he found were made by Bigfoot, but all these things could have been put there by someone who wanted this all to look like it was real, but unless you have some sort of concrete proof, then no one in their right mind is going to believe this elaborate story. The burden of proof lies with the persons making these allegations, to believe based on someones word is foolish, very foolish. I would like to believe that this story is true, but having read over the evidence, the inconsistencies of the stories, the falling out of the two people who wrote the book over money, the lack of concrete evidence, heck even the lack of a simple photo that doesnt resemble a blop of dark on a page, makes me believe that this isn’t the real deal. Now Ms. Carter had made a report about a bigfoot sighting she alleges she had when she was around 11 at a man made pond as she was fishing and accompanied by her dog, this report sounds credible, no where else in her report did she state ANY of the other things that she later stated about her Farm. Nothing against her, but like I said, I want proof..why? Cause she threw this all out there in the first place. I am a truth seeker and I dislike lies, if this was a work of fiction then she should have written her work as that, since she wrote it as a nonfiction story, prove it. No excuses, no hiding behind strange interdimensional theories, prove it once and for all so she can get on with her life and we can get on with searching for the truth.

Yes I have seen these photos before, thank you Wuff for posting the link. Still its only circumstancial evidence. Nothing hard core or concrete. I for one want more than that, am tired of the run around..if this is a true story then by God lets see the goods, bring him on in so we can take a look at him. If you can’t do that then its obvious that its a hoax and these people need to fess up and get this all off their shoulders. I know it weighs heavy on them, I bet they wish they had never come forward with this to begin with. No one twisted their arm to make them come forward with this account. I am tired of this all..show us the goods or kindly step away from the limelight. You should have known everyone would want proof.

“I hate to say it, but he is obviously a very gullible person to believe her claims. It was ridiculous when she claimed the Bigfoot on the property spoke English. Igor should have left right there knowing he was wasting his time. Instead he wrote out a Bigfoot family tree on a picnic table with her. I would have to say that discussion on this topic is a complete waste of time for anyone seriously and honestly investigating the Bigfoot phenomenon”.

That paragraph would be correct if you knew for a fact what TYPE of being Sasquatch was. How do you know it does not have “powers” that enable it to talk in English? How do we know it is not at least partially non-material?

Again, I know the possibility that Ole Hairy may be “paranormal,” “interdimensional,” or “telepathic,” is frowned upon by some here, but one HAS to look at all possibilities, no matter what they are or where they may lead. Given Ole Hairy’s penchant for semmingly “supernatural” behavior, it is not “irrational” to “think outside of the box.”

I’m still not totally convinced by the Carter’s claims but I refuse to dismiss certain “possibilities” simply because they fall outside of some folk’s “comfort zones” or “paradigms.” I guess Greg102 thinks this may be a terrestrial creature exclusively—that’s ok by me—but do NOT pooh-pooh anybody who might want to NOT like at it like that exclusively.

It is a true (if overused) statement that extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
That there is an unclassified North American ape is an extraordinary claim, and it’s perfectly reasonable for “science” to demand a type specimen (all or part of a body).
That this creature can use English and will learn such human actions as toasting marshamallows is an “extraordinary extraordinary” claim. (Among other musings: How do you teach the animal it has to wait a minute and let the marshmallow cool? How do you persuade it to try again after it burned its mouth the first time? Wouldn’t the sasquatch be more likely to haul off and smack the teacher?) All this requires considerable proof: outside scientific evaluation of the claimed hair and other physical traces, plus video or photographic records to supplement eyewitness accounts. (Extraordinary behavior by known species, such as recreational swimming in orangutans, has been reported by witnesses but accepted only with photo/video proof.)
There’s nothing unusual in alleging an animal has been habituated to human presence, takes food left out by humans, etc. Squirrels do that. But the level of intelligent interaction claimed in this case has no chance of scientific or government acceptance unless it can be proven with far more than witness reports and “unidentified” hair.

First of all I answer to those who require good photo of a creature. First of all, this needs MUCH FUNDS, and we don,t have them. For FIVE years since my previous visit I cannot come again to make good photos of creatures. Though I know how to get them. It’s a pity that for example Nicolas Cage wastes $ Millions to search yety in Himalayas, and we could not get just $20000 to arrange a good search in N. America.
As to me – I earn money by publishing books but this business is not very profitable. Even due to such a business I have lost many things including home, family, money etc…
Even when I ask some newspaper to send me to the US, they say: bring us the photo, and we shall pay for it. But I should spend MONEY BEFORE!
Secondly. Even if we have a good photo or film, skeptics will not be satisfyed. So happend with Patterson film. We studied it in Russia more than 30 years ago for several years. All the specialists who participated in the investigation concluded, that the film is REAL. I’ve published the Bayanov’s book in English: America’s Bigfoot: Fact, Not Fiction, in which we proofe the identity of the film.
But still the film IS NOT RECOGNISED by official scientific community…

About the hair samples. Yes, we have found in the nest on the Carter farm A LOT OF HAIR SAMPLES, of various colour and lenght. But ALL of them ver similar to human hair, not fur, not thik as horse hair etc… If you say that humans left them, could you imagine that somebody came to the brushes, frictioned with THEIR heads (MANY PERSONS!) to thorns and twigs to leave hairs on them? On all the branches around the big nest? (Animals dont walk there freely, and, as I said, they are human like hairs).
Yes, we’ve sent samples – to the National Geographic team (the promised to arrange study them, but, I think, their authorities refused to do so, and they did not); to the Genetic Institute in Kazakhstan; to Moscow University – no response. Because they were NOT OBLIGED, just voluntarely – could make analisys, and could not to make… We try to send samples to Germany, but when they learned that samples are modern, not ancient, they stopped to answer…
And again: what the use of the results? Skeptics wil reject them any way… But for us, who make this research VOLUNTERLY, it is wasteful to pay too much attention to such actions… We have enough efforts just for fieldwork, and there are not enough time and forces for further investigations…
For example we here went to Abkhasia one year ago and gathered there blood samples from lokal people to compare with DNA of Zana’s ancestors, but still the analisys was not made…
(to be continued)

About wooden markers. We’ve found many of such structures not only on Carter farm< but in other places (In … Stoun National Park, for exzample). We asked ranger Sean there: who made the structures? He answered: I don’t know. – Were they made by the people? – No, – he answered. _ But who? – I don’t know… Funny answer?
And now we find such wooden constructions in every place here in Russia consiedered to our Bigfoot (we call them “Leshiy”, means “wood man”).
Just several days before some youngsters sent me photos of such structures from S-Petersburg region, from Tver Region (150 km from Moscow), from Tula region (130 km from Moscow), and before we have had MANY such constructions in Kirov region, 900 km from Moscow…

Now I can conclude: If we had a court which should decide the question about existence of BFs, we could offer enough prooves TO RECOGNISE THEIR EXISTENCE. And the problem now is NOT OF DISCOVERY of THEM, but OF RECOGNITION of THEM… And at first – THE RECOGNITION of the PROBLEM, or the QUESTION OF THEIR EXISTENCE…

I’m sorry, but I have yet to read any convincing reason why there are no photographs or videos in this case.
If the animal is that habituated to humans and the sights and smells of human-made things, it should not be any harder to capture such imagery than it’s been in the case of other wary, intelligent animals, such as gorillas, which also have to be habituated to human presence.
I appreciate Dr. Bourtsev’s quick response, and I understand his point that a video might not be accepted. That’s no excuse for not taking one, though. Why would this require any unusual amount of money? If there are witnesses who routinely see the creatures, a $50 digital camera or a $150 video camera would multiply our knowledge of the animals enormously, even if not everyone accepted it as real. Even if the animal decided it didn’t like the camera sounds and took off, you’d still have images of it hurrying away.
I’m not calling people liars. I am saying that they are not advancing sufficient proof of their story, and I can’t accept the reasons offered so far of why they have not.
I admit that my own field experience is minimal, and others with more experience may weigh in on why this is all more difficult than it appears to me.

while I appreciate the doctors responses I still say..its NOT ENOUGH..excuse after excuse after excuse you were right there, someone could have obtained some sort of tangible proof that these creatures exist..dont moan about money now, you knew what you were getting yourself into. I am sorry you didnt have funding but if you didnt have funding then you shouldnt have gone to do this expedition. Sorry, sounds cold, but that is the way it is. No matter what you two say about hair samples this, not able to obtain photos that..if you were in the vicinity of this creature and was not able to some way do what you set out to do then SHAME ON YOU..I don’t want to hear your excuse, you are speaking of a creature that many researchers have hunted for decades, there right in front of you and you weren’t prepared? Will somebody please help me understand HOW a researcher is NOT PREPARED for that which they set out to do??? I mean really!

I do not doubt Bourtsev’s sincerity, but it is impossible for me to accept Janice Coy’s assertions regarding Sasquatch language abilities, or anything else, for that matter, after incontrovertible proof was provided documenting her fraudulent claims. Coy allegedly plagiarized supposed Bigfoot words from a novel and presented them in her Fifty Years with Bigfoot book as representing her own research.

Thank you Mr.Bourtsev for responding to my inquiries as to DNA tests of the hair samples. It is unfortunate to hear the responses you received, I am one who believes that DNA or a body will be what is needed to end the debates as to this creatures existence. Photos and video can be compelling, but unfortunately they also can be faked (and as we know many people try to hoax a photo or video). I know that Ole Bub has been posting recently about his own work and networking, perhaps he (or some other member of this site for that matter) could be of some assistance in finding a way of helping DNA tests be performed on the hair, perhaps through contacts or something.

I make no claims to be an expert on the Carter farm case, but I’ve always felt that this is an elusive, shy animal. That’s enough for me, I don’t feel it necessary to make it more than that. I think the first step is finding them, proving they’re real. After that, through observation we can learn other things. That was how it was with discovering the great apes after all, and we’re still learning new things about them and appreciating them more so than ever. Find it, prove it, then work out the particulars. (Mr.Bourtsev this last paragraph isn’t directed to you, it is simply my general opinion on things).

IMHO, the only thing that has been encountered on the Carter farm over all these years is some very strong marijuana or some sure enough good moonshine. Seriously, 50 plus years of these creatures and not a single shred of evidence. Not one! No pictures, no hair samples that we have seen, no scat samples, nothing. Now we have fake researchers (my opinion) coming to their defense. Not much of a researcher who goes to a place totally unprepared with no equipment. Either put up or shut up.

Iam familiar with this story first of all i agree with esther we need photographs. I went through this with the johor bigfoot claim and it unfortunately it turned out to be a fraud. I am going to accept her claim lightly because during the interview when they showed the property of where she lives i do believe she said fox and the others lived by the river right down below of her home. Igor had the chance right there to take a chance at taking a few snapshots of fox and the others. A wasted chance once again. Igor is a credible scientist i seen him on a few crypto shows. Janice on the other hand went into detail how fox took her on a hunt and showed her how they kill for food. Right there when she described the technique of how they kill that made me wonder if she was telling the truth. We need more evidence no question about it , it comes down to real proof. ESTHER has made it real clear we just cant go by drawings anymore we need a body.

And finally we’ve lost such suitable lab as Carter farm… Janice has been forced to leave that house and farm and now lives in her friends house in another state even…
It’s very easy to demand photo made by somebody but not by you yourself… Also is very easy to give advise to other persons… But it is difficult to follow the advise…
As to the opportunity to photograph – the problem is that BFs DON”T WANT TO BE PHOTOGRAPHED. And they are successful in such a non-wishing…
Remember: the only satisfied shooting was Patterson’s film. But Patterson died in five year after shooting…
The BFs are greater mistery than we suppose…

I really appreciate that Dr Bourtsev has come here to share his information. I’m sorry that there is not a bit more respect for his opinion here. From what I have read, he is one of the researchers who has been studying this creature for several decades in Russia, where the creature is widespread and known to many of the rural communities. So, personally, I feel we can trust that he is able to correctly identify evidence such as ‘markers’ and ‘nests.’

Several people here are frustrated and complaining that Dr Bourtsev did not take a photo when he had the chance to be so close to a Bigfoot. However, from what I have read about his visit to the Carter family, I understand that he did NOT see the creature on his visit, but just the evidence that he has described here and photographed.

Please also remember that this problem of not managing to get photos is common to all researchers (not just the Carter family). The Bigfoot appears to have very fine hearing and perhaps even a a sixth sense (or just very well-tuned five senses), in that many researchers say he seems to be aware of your intentions and avoids contact if he suspects you are trying to manipulate him.

The other problem – that has recently been identified – is that most camera/video equipment makes a very high-pitched noise that we cannot hear (without equipment) but some animals can, including apparently the Bigfoot. Some other animals have been reported to avoid camera equipment for this reason and it is surmised that this is how Bigfoot is always aware when there are cameras and why he/she does not then appear. Anyway, I understand that a new silent type of camera has just been developed (especially to photograph Bigfoot), so hopefully we are now in a better position to get this elusive evidence.

I hope people can keep an open mind and be respectful of others and the problems and constraints of working in this area.

On June 28, 2009, Igor Bourtsev mentions (above) this tidbit in his comment: “It’s a pity that for example Nicolas Cage wastes $ Millions to search yety in Himalayas.”

Unfortunately, I think this is merely a mild example of the general type of wishful thinking and cloudy grasp of facts exhibited in the Carter farm investigations that is taking place with regard to this matter.

In actual fact, Cage is only interested in the Yeti, but certainly has not funded with millions of dollars any expeditions in pursuit of Abominable Snowmen.

Nicolas Cage, actor, while promoting his new film National Treasure in November 2004, remarked that “he is fascinated by modern myths” and, having seen films about the Yeti, “wants to meet the beast.”

Cage was quoted at the time as saying, “‘These scientists are convinced that somewhere in the Asian mountains of Tibet, there is a short, red-haired, two-legged ape man. They’ve seen it, and they’re trying to get it. Now, that’s fascinating to me. I’d like to meet the guy. I want to look at him. I want to say ‘Hi’ to him.'”

“Cage admitted his interest in all things beastly and hairy has been spiked after coming face-to-face with wild dogs in Africa.”

“He adds, ‘We had dogs around us every day, but seeing a wild dog in its own nature is like seeing a cave man. It’s kind of like I know you but I don’t and you’re interesting.'”

“‘I’m fascinated by this kind of thing; fascinated by the as-yet undiscovered but possible. I like anything that makes you wonder; that isn’t totally spelled out for you.'”

Being “interested” because you ran into wild dogs in Africa is a long way from funding Himalayan quests for Yetis.

I only know what i’ve have read on a casual basis and here about the Carter farm story and am quite willing to believe it all but unfortunately the only evidence available of any substance appear to be witness statements. Which when they involve a supposed flesh and blood creature is not enough. If a case was being made out for the creatures as being Tulpas (budheist thought forms)or poltergheists or even Janice operating in some alternative reality one would have to look at it again. But that would be even more unlikely!
I sympathise with Dr Bourtsev whome I compliment in obtaining Zana and khwit skulls and then getting them to Dr Todd Disotell in New York for analysis. I am very sceptical about this lab. coming up with anything new or supportive of cryptid claims. This must have been a hugh disapointment to Dr Bourtsev and probably one of the reasons he seems pessimistic about further analysis and which is now an obstacle to further work being done for him. Even so of the hair samples he got he might find some had no medullar and some did, similar to human hair and as there were ample samples maybe some hair follicles? The characteristics of the hair could have been unique also. So if there remain samples a further possibility exists for analysis- perhaps by IMO, a less sceptical lab.
In the Carter farm situation one does have this image of evidence being planted for Dr Bourtsnov to find ? I do hope this is just a fantasy of mine.

Thank to Miss G-force for support and explaining my ideas – for me the language is a problem…
And I want to add: the SIXTH SENSE of these creatures is VERY DEVELOPED, that is why the problem is not the noise of a camera, but HUNTER’S INTENDS. If hunter wants to catch creature VIOLENTLY, he will not achieve. It is necessary to go to these creatures WITH OPEN HEART and FRIENDLY attitude, to make THEM become friends for a long time, to make THEM to get accustomed to you.
So happened with Janice Carter, who LIVED decades between them, close to them, as a friend, as a neighbour, GOOD neighbour, FRIENDLY neighbour…

As to Nic Cage – that was an information in I-net, that he intends to arrange an expedition to Himalayas… Maybe it was just a deviation of his words.
Excuse me for such a comparison.
Any way, it was just a simbol, because I know one Russian cinema man, who went to Himalayas for Yety though I tried to convince him that it would much more cheaper to search such a creature in the US, and more resultative… But – alas… and nothing found there…

I can appreciate Igor Bourtsev’s enthusiasm and investigation into the carter farm claims, BUT if he lived on the farm for 5 weeks and supposedly there is a large family of Bigfoot living in the area, I would find it hard to believe that he could not ever see a Bigfoot or get some substantial evidence of them. The reason he didn’t is because the claims are false. Supposedly these Bigfoot knock on her door asking for garlic in English. She supposedly has a great relationship with this family so she would be able to easily take a photo. She supposedly has been with them for many decades, but not one single shred of evidence. The reason there is no evidence is because it’s all a lie. There are many other legitimate and believable sightings that we can spend our time on, not this obvious case of delusion and fraud.

Ms G-force states:
Several people here are frustrated and complaining that Dr Bourtsev did not take a photo when he had the chance to be so close to a Bigfoot. However, from what I have read about his visit to the Carter family, I understand that he did NOT see the creature on his visit, but just the evidence that he has described here and photographed.
**And there my friend is the issue that I have with this WHOLE situation. This scientist is brought over here to America to witness the great event unfolding on the Carter Farm and NOT ONCE did he get to SEE the creatures!!!!
That right there would have been a warning to me that all was not on the up and up in this case. I for one am NOT being disrespectful to the doctor, and I have not seen anyone else on this forum be disrespectful towards him..but by God I want the truth! As do all the fine researchers in this field, anything else is a slap in the face to ALL those researchers who have been out in the field time and time again trying to gather evidence of this elusive creature.
This case is not your typical run of the mill Bigfoot case. This is a case that says “I have and my family have had interactions with this creature for well over FIFTY years” If they were able to get as close to this creature as is depicted in their story, were able to teach it how to roast marshmallows thus building trust with this creature..then by GOD they should have been able to gain its trust of man made objects such as a camera..there again is excuse after excuse after excuse..the camera makes noise so they dont LET us take pictures of them..BULL CORN!
Yes I am frustrated, who woudn’t be? You have the creature right there in front of you and can’t even shoot it with a tranquilizer gun to knock it out and have it studied, or take a photo of it..heck you should have a WHOLE photo album full of family portraits along with Bigfoot in the mix in the background!
Sorry, I smell a rat, and its a rather disgusting stench!

Dr. Bourtsev, based on your posts here, one seems able to draw the conclusion that you are a very intelligent person, and, regardless of how this turns out with the Carter situation, I very highly doubt that you are knowingly involved in any fraudulent activities regarding this matter…

But – considering the situation, it would seem to me that the people involved would have more evidence than what I have seen/heard about. Where are the actual pictures of the Sasquatches?

I appreciate all the comments the Carter farm topic has generated (see previous post also). It is good news to hear from Ole Bub and the Dawgs that active research is continuing on this report. Hopefully one day, this new research will be shared.

Really great comments by Dr. Igor Bourtsev. The sixth sense comments are very enlightening.

Erik Knatterud – These are my questions also. Interesting isn’t it?

Alton Higgins – Great link about the plagiarism. Thank you for contributing to this discussion, as this story has many angels that need to be examined.

cryptidsrus responds:
June 29th, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Thanks for responding, Dr. Bourtsev.
Very much appreciated.

It is apparently true what you said about Bigfoot.

They don’t like to be photographed. They CHOOSE when they want to be photographed, a la Patterson. Just pointing that out
** (kewl name by the way cryptid)
Well, I hate to be sounding like the wicked witch of the west with all my ranting…BUT..according to WHOM is this statement about Bigfoot choosing who may or may not photograph them come from? A human? Sorry, I don’t take the word of anyone unless I see it with my own two eyes. There have been people out in the field of ghosthunting that have come up with pictures of apparitions let alone someone who is face to face with a Bigfoot. I am sorry I don’t buy into what other people say..sometimes they say these things cause thats the only way they can explain to themselves why the creature hasn’t been photographed. I don’t know..but I do know that we have to be careful when we believe these things cause some people say the darndest things. Most of them without any scientific proof to back up what they say. Some of them cause they think they are the grand pooba of all that is metaphysical and have a LOYAL group following. I am not saying that’s what you are my friend. I am just pointing out that we cannot know for sure if that statement is true. HOW does the doctor know for certain that Bigfoot has a sixth sense and one has to have a “open heart” and a friendly attitude in order for them to let us photograph them? Why does he believe that?? Cause someone TOLD him that..that sounds cult like to me..ridiculous to me. Oi!

Igor what proof do you have that these creatures have a heightened SIXTH SENSE? Being a man of science, to come to conclusions such as this requires scientific ability to test and prove a hypothesis. Just curious, as all readers would appreciate how you came to this conclusion. Also how do Bigfoot know what a camera is?
Another question, Igor you mentioned if you could come back to the farm you mentioned you could definately get a photograph, but unfortunately don’t have the funds to get back to the USA. In what way do you plan to photograph the Bigfoot if you got back?? Also what attempts did you take to get photos in your 5 weeks on the farm?

Sorry I have no time to continue this discussion. I cannot expound here all that knowledge about BFs gained for more than 40 years to convince skeptics, the more so, that they demand body and blood, not words.
As to my way of photographing them – I don’t concieder this as a main aim. The first my intention and wish is to become friends with THEM. And after, IF they agree – to photograph them, or to be photographed together WITH THEM…
And final task – to achieve their protection…

One more addition about photographing.
I’m citing the message by one of BFs’ friends:

The Bigfoot people are very aware of how dangerous and unpredictable humans can be. This information is remembered, communicated, and taught to their children. Generally, the lesson goes as follows:

We humans have a tendency to shoot at and destroy anything we fear or cannot understand. In essence, any object we raise up to our face that the Bigfoot people do not fully recognize and understand, any instrument or box, and especially if we are pointing it at them, the Bigfoot people consider to be a weapon unless and until proven otherwise. This is simply prudent self-preservation at work.

Well, in reference to all the bandying about of the Supernal Sasquatch going on here, all I can say is:

Read the evidence.

It suggests an ape, not too different except in a few superficial aspects from the ones we know about, which doesn’t have any more particular say in whether it gets shot, photographed or hit by a car than, say, a mountain lion or a coyote.

And yes, there are reports – one at least pretty well substantiated, thank you Roger – of a sasquatch being all three of those things.

It could be capable of everything the Carters say it is -including figuring out marshmallows and fires. But there’s no evidence that it can figure out whether you’ve spiked the marshmallows with, oh, say, tranquilizer. (HINT to the Carters. )

Bigfoot have been purported to be telepathic, which is what I have personally observed over and over again. Carter’s bigfoot likely telepathically monitor every human in the vicinity. Therefore, when a human even thinks about picking up a camera, spiking a marshmellow, setting a trap, setting up a trail camera, etc, etc, then it’s already game over. Humans who believe that their species and themselves in particular, are the smartest animals on two feet to walk the planet, often have erected a mental block that prevents them from recognizing this important ability of the Bigfoot. The Bigfoot appear to be able to do everything man can do, except perhaps a hundred times better. So when man is walking trails or setting a game camera, he is possibly leaving behind his thoughts that float as electrical clouds, that can later be read by a highly perceptive Bigfoot. Since human clairvoyant or telepaths can do this to solve criminal cases, then so can Bigfoot except perhaps a hundred times better. Now write this on the back of both hands in indelible ink. “Bigfoot is highly telepathic. Kick self hard in buttocks, when I make ignorant comments on the internet that ignores Bigfoot’s super abilities, or condemns other persons for their inability to overcome those super abilities”. Now I think I’ll take my daily laxative and lie down for a bit. I feel exhausted.

Grandma Moses or whatever your real name is: Well, thank you for sharing that bit of insight wrapped in arrogance in explaining it all for us. In the psychiatric field, we call that “magical thinking.”

If we ever do capture an English-speaking telepathic bigfoot we should recruit him/her/it to work with a CSI team. Can you imagine the benefits of being able to read the “thoughts that float as electrical clouds” left behind at a crime scene? Or we could use the sasquatch to help find Osama bin Laden, or, or, well the possibilities are endless. If only we could figure out how to counter the ability of Fox and Friends to read our minds from hundreds of miles away….

You know what, if the Sasquatches over there at the Carter Farm are reading my mind right now – which I doubt – I’m thinking, as hard as I can, “I’ll Pay You 20$ If You Walk Into A Major City And Start Hula-Dancing On The Front Steps Of City Hall”.
Now, the reason I doubt this is a little thing called evidence, Grandma. I’ve got case examples of a Sasquatch getting photographed, only one I can name right now, though I’m sure other people here can think of more.
-The Patterson/Gimlin Film. They got a camera, they filmed the Sas. Not that hard to do, assuming that ol’ Footy’s actually there.

But there’s no evidence that it can figure out whether you’ve spiked the marshmallows with, oh, say, tranquilizer. (HINT to the Carters. )

Well apparently you’re wrong about that DWA, according to Grandma Moses when a fella schemes against a Sasquatch “he is possibly leaving behind his thoughts that float as electrical clouds, that can later be read by a highly perceptive Bigfoot”.

Well, Cliff, don’t go all logical on me here. I can redo the calculations, if grandmamoses promises to send me one of her distinctive pieces of American folk art.

Did I see something way up there about confirmed sasquatch hair? Um, confirmed praytell against what? “Primate” would be pretty intriguing, and I understand one can get that far. But to confirm something, you need a type specimen. And like Caina777 I might have lost that find in the Michael Firestorm of the past few days.

CryptoInformant 2.0: If you could keep your requests reasonable, maybe we could get some cooperation here. I’m just focusing hard on this thought, in the hopes of generating positive electrical cloudage: “maybe one of you could really focus on making the human remember that he has a camera. Then, if you’d be so nice as to pose, or at least move nice and deliberately and stay in the open, if you have perceived that the human has a video camera.” Although I must say, the power of the twenty having been long confirmed by experiment, you did go for the right denomination there. The twenty opens doors.

I think that Dr. Bourtsev has credentials. Which yes, get harmed when one plays the You Must Believe Me! game. See, no we don’t necessarily “must.” Is evidence this hard to get? The guy’s having Smores with you; and coming to your door for garlic, and all the while just reading your positive thoughts, and, well, nothing? Something that I’m having a hard time believing at the moment is that, if the events at the Carters’ are that real, that evidence is that scarce.

At this point, I’m beginning to think that “grandmamoses” is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, or more correctly, a scofftic in true-believers clothing. As such, I’m not even going to comment on any more of the insanity. Feeding the trolls is a bad idea.

Also, to Doug Trapp, I appreciate the sentiments you express, but I must take exception with your assertion that good scientific research isn’t taking place outside the PNW. In east Texas, where the availability of water and thick vegetation rivals that of the PNW, the TBRC is doing some really good work emulating the techniques used by other field biologist around the world in attempting to capture still camera images of rare wildlife via various camera trapping projects.

Sure, slugging through the swamps and mosquitoes isn’t as glamorous as, say, roasting marshmallows with a bigfoot and plagiarizing language content (see Alton Higgins’ post), but its the kind of feet on the ground that really has the potential to conclusively prove either the reality of sasquatch, or the reality of whatever is being seen by sincere witnesses and reported as sasquatch (frankly, I’d be just as excited to see that Louisiana black bears were expanding their territory and being seen by folks in east Texas.)

Short and sweet folks; All the interdimensional stuff, all the conjecture about language (although not impossible, as other primates have shown an ability to learn and use human language, i.e. gorilla, bonobo, etc.) it’s all putting the cart before the horse.

Until we’ve established the reality of their existence, all the arguing over the interdimensional stuff is a waste of time and a distraction.

Of course, according to some, they’ll never be found because of their interdimensional nature. That’s fine. You go have your fun communing with the spirits of the telepathic sasquatch, and leave the hard work you don’t want to contribute to for all of us “ridiculous” “misguided” folks slogging through the swamps and hills.

Miss GForce said:
“The other problem – that has recently been identified – is that most camera/video equipment makes a very high-pitched noise that we cannot hear (without equipment) but some animals can, including apparently the Bigfoot. Some other animals have been reported to avoid camera equipment for this reason”

I’ve also seen a variety of exotic, retiring species captured on camera traps around the globe.

So while I won’t rule out the possibility that a shy, retiring, and wary animal might avoid areas reeking of human scent and whining with an odd noise, I know for a fact that it isn’t enough to keep most other critters away. Just do a quick google search for “camera trap” + known critter of your choice, and I’m sure you’ll find some amazing pics in short order. (Researchers have even captured the first wild images of the elusive snow leopard with this technology.)

Cryptidsrus states:
“Thanks for responding, Dr. Bourtsev.
Very much appreciated.

It is apparently true what you said about Bigfoot.

They don’t like to be photographed. They CHOOSE when they want to be photographed, a la Patterson. Just pointing that out.”

If so, then that takes them (at least in this case) out of the realm of cryptozoology and into the more esoteric realms. I know Vallee mentions that, based on the number of reported sightings and the chance of stumbling across a higher intelligence that didn’t want to be seen, it seems likely that UFOs are only seen when they choose to be seen, as though, in Vallee’s words, they are trying to force us through some learning curve.

Interesting. Especially in the sense of saucers (and especially since I quit buying into the ETH in favor of more psychological and earth energy based explanations) as Vallee discusses it. But again, that isn’t zoology or cryptozoology. Its something else entirely.

Something that is impossible to prove.

It’s all very interesting. I’m just not convinced that all BF fall into that realm. Not yet anyway. Not with all the other evidence pointing to an unknown, flesh and blood primate.

That’s Ok. I understand perfectly well that some folks are “see it before I believe it”-types—and there’s NOTHING wrong with that. A good portion of the good people here in Cryptomundo are of that “inclination,” as a matter of fact.

Oh,—you’ve got a cool “name” too, BTW.

I DON”T know how Dr. Bourtsev KNOWS that Ole Hairy has a “sixth sense” or whther it is “interdimensional” or not—I’m simply basing my opinion on the testimony of others who have observed the Bigfoots and its behaviors over the decades and even centuries.
This being does not act like a “normal” being would—you know???
At times the Sasquatch seems to be in two places at once (anecdotal evidence, I know), to know when one is “coming,” to be able to act very “human-like,” etc. There has got to be an explanation for that. I don’t know what it is but the “supernatural” (i.e., non-material) explanation seems to be the most “logical” one for me. That’s ME, of course. I understand that does not meet the “scientific” standards of many—that’s fine.
Everybody knows here I tend to be a “believer,” albeit not an Uncritical One.
Remember what I said—
“It is APPARENTLY true what you said about Bigfoot”.

I did not say it WAS true, just that it appeared to be true to ME according to how I interpreted the evidence based on my years of reading and thinking about the Bigfoots. Could be totally wrong. I understand that.

I was simply trying to get people to expand their horizons as to what constitutes “evidence.” To be a little “open-minded” as to what is happening regarding these witnesses and the possible explanations of what they did or did not see. To at least consider that the explanation for these beings may fall outside of the current scientifc paradigm.

After all, we can’t do a “repeatable” experiment on Ole Hairy, can’t we?
(If we could capture one and immobilize it–maybe. ;))
A lot of theories regarding Bigfoot were formed by people who think it is just an “animal”—therefore it should ACT just like an animal. I’m sorry but that does not fit the countless eyewtiness accounts and evidence for at least SOME of these species of creature. I understand there are other lower classes of being all over the USA and other countries who don’t fit into that and could be classed as “animal” (the Skunk-Ape comes immediately to mind). But scientists lump them all together into bucket—“It is THIS-and nothing else.” It doesn’t “work that way.”
The Pacific Bigfoot appears to be of a higher state than others.

It WAS wrong of Dr. Bourtsev to not press the issue regarding photographs, but I refuse to totally dismiss the man just yet simply his “explanation” of what happened doesn’t jibe with what YOU want him to do.
He DOES need more credible “evidence,” but given his explanation, I understand where he is coming from—ya know???
“Interdimensional” or “supernatural” might actually be the reason that Ole Hairy is never photographed, ya know???
Science needs to at least CONSIDER that.
Unfortunately, a lot of folks

What you also have to understand, a lot of my beliefs (cryptozoological or otherwise) are also filtered somewhat through the lens of my quasi-New Age beliefs. (I know. The shame. ) Not ALL of them, but a lot of them. So, unlike many, I’m more open to the possibility that a lot of Bigfoot evidence might ultimately be explainable in a “non-material” way.

Like I’ve said before—not “supernatural.” There IS not such thing, ultimately. It is simply “natural” phenomena that science has not explained or detected.
I anticipate (hopefully) that by the end of this century we will not recognize what the “scientific spectrum” is because a lot of the things we dismiss today (ESP, OBEs, Telepathy, Ghosts, Shadow Beings) may actually be found to be part of the normal and natural fabric of the universe.
Only they were “dismissed” because science didn’t recognize their validity.

I would point to you the countless tales of the Native Americans (who have had centuries more contact with Bigfoot than WE have) and how they speak of the Bigfoot not being an actual animal but a full-fledged “being” on our level who can move between dimensions, can talk and interact with humans, and can actually disappear and reappear at will and knows one is going to be at a certain place five minutes before is there.
Native American interaction with these being continues to this very day. Although many dismiss these tales and “anecdotes” simply as the ramblings of an “uneducated”, “backward” race (not everyone, of course, but there ARE some) or simply mistaken identity or even metaphor disguised as tale-spinning—I, for one, refuse to dismiss that off the cuff.

Ultimately, I tend to take the word of people who apparently have actually “seen” it (to use YOUR standard of proof) and dealt with it on a somewhat regular basis (and I understand that it just SOME Native Americans who do this—many, particularly some of the young, don’t believe in them) than people who’ve never seen them and presume to know what they are “all about”.
But I do totally understand where you’re coming from. Just explaining my take on things.

DWA writes
” It suggests an ape, not too different except in a few superficial aspects from the ones we know about, which doesn’t have any more particular say in whether it gets shot, photographed or hit by a car than, say, a mountain lion or a coyote.”

I cant agree with this, I think when you add it all up Sasquatch presents as much more than an ape and in some ways, without getting carried away, even more than homo sapiens. Not much sign of it getting photographed or hit by a car etc. and also it seems has more say than a mountain lion or a coyote in its fate.

Don’t you get the feeling when you watch Pattie walk away with her strong purpouseful stride then looks back, you are looking at a some one with intelligence and conciousness and a soul well ahead of any ape?

However the logic appears and Dr Bourtsov is found wanting in not getting photos it seems a bit ironic that he should be when you consider the general failure in this field despite all the years that have been put into this research. The opportunity is there isnt it, thousands of sightings hardly any pictures and sasquatch may be habituated to humans maybe not but certainly no evidence on the table?

This brings us to the central problem, thousands of good eyewitness reports which I trust and no picture you can put on your mantlepiece. If Sasquatch it was a gorilla they would have names. We would be saying thats Pattie thats Mary thats Garth etc etc. There are explanations but after a bit they tend to lose their credibility. This is where the paranormal explanations start to fit.

One that fits for me is for Sasquatch to have some well developed psychic powers along with powerful senses. Others may add more, like being a dimensional jumper. I have no knowledge of this but have experienced esp like I would say most people have, even if they dont recognise it!

So I reckon its right to keep an open mind on all this without fear of your brain falling out and work towards the truth with mutual enjoyment and tolerance

cryptidsrus,
Your “new age” beliefs are all fine and good for you. But I don’t come to this forum, say that Jesus is the true son of God, and expect you to all accept it based just on my word.

It’s my FAITH, and it’s separate from scientific analysis. You can’t prove faith. You shouldn’t even try. By its very definition faith is that which you accept without any direct proof. But cryptozoology, as a science (even if it is a young one), demands proof.

Also, in regard to the rich native canon of hairy giant stories, etc.; to reiterate a point I’ve made, ad nauseum, there is valuable data to be had in there. But native nations were as diverse in their culture, language, and lifestyles (and in their beliefs in the physical or spiritual nature of this creature) as were the Europeans who encountered them, if not more diverse. Some counted them as more akin to the spirits. Other stories speak of them as though they were flesh and blood animals.

Again, as I’ve said before, native accounts of spirit-realm bigfoot are no more proof against the flesh and blood creature than are Coyote tales proof that the coyote chasing cats in my backyard is something more than a flesh and blood wild canid.

And new age beliefs in the psychic bigfoot are no more likely to convince me the flesh and blood creature isn’t real than are claims that new agers psychically communicate with dolphins. In other words, I don’t personally have any proof to substantiate or disprove their claim that they are psychically communicating with dolphins, and likely never will. But I do know that the flesh and blood dolphins are there.

New age beliefs in the psychic or extra-dimensional bigfoot and my belief in a flesh and blood undiscovered primate are no more or less mutually exclusive than are the beliefs in psychic, but flesh and blood, dolphins. I don’t have faith in the claims of psychic animals, and I can’t verify the veracity of such claims, no matter how compelling; but another’s belief in them doesn’t necessarily negate all the physical evidence available for flesh and blood creatures, bigfoot, dolphins, dogs, or others.

You may dispute various pieces of photographic evidence, but the photographs are out there. Photographs of long track ways. Photographs and films of the creatures themselves, such as the Patterson-Gimlin footage. And photographs of damage attributed to them.

While the veracity of that evidence may be up for debate, its more (and better quality) than what we have been presented in the Carter-Coy case.

Well, I was going to say some things here but… well, Jeremy_Wells has pretty much covered it. I’ll add in later if I think it needs it, but nothing really to add at this point. Jeremy, your thoughts are very similar to the ones I’ve stated on the previous Carter farm discussion.

Loren brought up a great word, “magical thinking.” An excellent word to describe some of the things being said on here.

grandmamoses- I don’t know if you are joking or not, but about your tendency to mention in your laxatives you need to take, is that really neccesary? I don’t mean to be rude, but it’s maybe a little more information than many here need to know.

DWA, thanks – I was hoping that the universal appeal of the 20 dollar bill would still apply with these magical super-psychic mentally superior beings from the 4th Dimension. Although, you never know: we might find out later that, on top of all that, they’re commies!

Hi, Loren, I’ve been trying for several years to register at Cryptomundo and this time was the charm! Dr. Bourtsev’s posts and Matt Bille’s, along with your own, are all a privilege to read, along with several other renowned scholars and researchers.

What I would like to post here is that Mary Green is innocent of any lying or deception on her own part. If there are any untruths involved, it’s because Mary was naive and trusting enough to be taken in by a pathological liar who claims to be no-kill when she is really pro-kill, i.e. pro-murder. That’s all I have to say about that, and it’s not for any personal gain, since Mary doesn’t like me at all for years because I criticized JC. Mary made no profit on her “50 Years” book, only a great deal of ridicule from the BF community.

As for Grandma Moses, you take all the over-the-counter medications you like, gal, and keep coming back!

I think the comments on this blog have been great and interesting. I can appreciate all points of view, but with talks of inter-dimensional beings, reading electric waves in the air, heightened sixth sense, I understand some want to have theories to explain some of these things, but I have to ask where is the slightest bit of evidence for any of these far out theories? If the answer is that Bigfoot is so hard to photograph, there’s no link to being hard to photograph and these “theories”. Now I am a believer in bigfoot possibly existing, but being unable to photograph bigfoot is probably more to do with it not existing, than it being an entity living between dimensions. I mean come on people, let’s be rational, scientific, and serious. The other thing I have trouble understanding is Dr. Bourtsev says Bigfoot is a Neanderthal. It is also been scientifically concluded that Neanderthals did not have thick hair covering their body like a gorilla so I don’t see the comparison. We also have cracked the Neanderthal genome, so If Bigfoot was a Neanderthal, we could compare bigfoot hair and DNA to Neanderthals and have a match. To my knowledge this has NEVER happened, so I’m not sure how he can come to the conclusion they are Neanderthals. Dr. Bourtsev being a scientist I am having trouble understanding how he makes these giant leaps of conclusions with no scientific fact. Maybe the Almnasty can be a relic Neanderthal as a possibility, but not Bigfoot in general. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to be a skeptic here, I am just rationally trying to understand how some come to conclusions with no ability to test these theories or even remote evidence to back them up at all.

We could bring this discussion to a close very quickly, with just three little words. Where’s the proof?

I see Igor was kind enough to supply “his proof” of the BF at the Carter place. However, if a friend of mine, who was a waitress, provided the same proof that Igor supplied here–well, we all know where that would be heading. Nowhere! So the standard of proof comes into question. We have hair that has not really been analyzed, yet it is proclaimed to have come from a BF. That is putting the cart before the horse. We have a clay ball with hair in it. Are you kidding me? It sounds more like vodoo than a BF play toy. We have no quality photographs, however, Igor is willing to come and photograph the BF. Why don’t we leave that to the professionals. Heck, I volunteer to go there and bring all of my newest and top of the line photographic equipment. And I can do a far much better job, with much better equipment, for a lot less money. Plus you can’t buy my experience in the field.

I have a feeling, even if I were to offer this service free of charge, at my own expense, there would be a negative response. Some might say, well, BF does not want to be photographed. Or they might say, BF needs to telepathically, define your intentions. Then they would argue my intentions were not true or some other nonsense!

But honestly, as a scientist, Igor would have to agree that there is no scientific basis for relating any of his evidence to BF.

Years ago, I saw a bent tree on a road. There was a sign next to it. The sign explained that this tree was bent by Native Americans. It was a pathmarket for helping others in their tribe find their way through the woods. Really? And although that could be true, I have seen many small saplings to trees that were about 10 years old, that had similar bends in them. I guess there must be an undiscovered tribe of people, somewhere near me, that are still bending trees.

This same thinking would apply to Igor’s assosiation of “markers” that were discovered, being related to BF. C’mon! And the ranger who stated that he did not know who made the “nests” probably gave an honest answer. But for Igor to extrapolate into the ranger meaning BFs made them, is, well, let’s say unbelievable! Anyone could have made them, even me. Unless Igor saw a BF constructing one of these nests, that is not even credible evidence.

I could go on and on and on. I am challenging the so called evidence that Igor is presenting here. It appears that every shred of evidence does not pan out. And of course, in every instance, there is some “convenient” explanation.

I will put my money where my mouth is. If Igor decides to come back, I will volunteer my photographic services, free of charge and pay for all my travel arrangements, and meet him, in an attempt to photograph a BF at the Carter place. I have one caveat though. I refuse to chase BF into the 13th dimension when he warps out of our dimension.

Yes Jeremy_Wells I am as daft as brush and now I have admitted it can I see all these photos of Sasquatch? Im afraid trackways wont do or even an arraingement of sticks. To me Sasquatch is real for good reasons but when I discuss it with rational friends its no good stating something is available as proof when it isnt. I am willing to stick my neck out over what constitutes evidence, taking a positive view. There’s plenty of others to fulfill the negative role. When I’ve got it together I might even take on sceptics Mr BIG-Mr Radford! One day.

In my post I did say ”hardly any photographs” not ”no photographs” I accept and value the PG film despite some reservations and quite like the ”mangey bear” photos by BFRO. Is there much else that looks good ?

You mention religion is not science, possibly, but we have to be careful that science does not become a religion. Keep it where it belongs with the rest of the useful like tools like screwdrivers. Cryptozoology is not just the game of scientists any more than gardening is just the game of scientists. As a postcript have you tried discussing religion with a jehovas witness if you think religion doesnt have its rationale or evidence.

Norman-uk: “Don’t you get the feeling when you watch Pattie walk away with her strong purpouseful stride then looks back, you are looking at a some one with intelligence and conciousness and a soul well ahead of any ape?”

Um, no. Looks like a gorilla but on two legs (the exact impression of many, many eyewitnesses). And a “feeling” isn’t evidence. When I first saw an up close face shot of an orangutan, my little-kid mind screamed: THAT’S A PERSON!!!! When I first saw the A. afarensis baby reconstructed on the cover of National Geographic (“First Child”), my adult mind said: that’s an orangutan.

“However the logic appears and Dr Bourtsov is found wanting in not getting photos it seems a bit ironic that he should be when you consider the general failure in this field despite all the years that have been put into this research. The opportunity is there isnt it, thousands of sightings hardly any pictures and sasquatch may be habituated to humans maybe not but certainly no evidence on the table?”

Bourtsev is leaping to conclusions without evidence. The “general failure” isn’t really; it’s lots of people having no opp to gather evidence for their experience and no willingness to share with a scoffing public. And “all the years” of research have been very, very sporadic, almost never more than three days at a time – except for Roger and look what he got – which won’t confirm an unlisted species to anyone’s satisfaction, and virtually all by amateurs. The evidence that has been collected by amateurs would convince the scientific mainstream at the very least to keep looking. Problem is Not-Invented-Here Syndrome: the mainstream didn’t fund the search, and operates from a built-in scoftical bias, so it doesn’t respect the evidence.

But if you have habituated one? We’re right to expect more than we have seen, as should Bourtsev.

Norman-uk,
Sorry, now I’m confused.
I concede that the available photos aren’t enough evidence to prove the reality of bigfoot. I never claimed they were. But that this evidence is insufficient for final proof doesn’t mean we need to weigh it in the same way as the so-called evidence from the Carter farm area.
Trackway photos aren’t sufficient to prove the existence of BF. But unlike line drawing recreations of bigfoot taking garlic, there is hard data that can be extrapolated from trackway photos. Stride length and weight, for instance, can be calculated from good, clear, well measured and documented trackways. While it is not the smoking gun proof we’d all like to have, it yields data that could prove useful in verifying claims that are legitimate and weeding out hoaxes. Likewise good films like the PG footage, while obviously not enough to prove the existence definitively, provide valuable data about the potential locomotion and movement of this creature. Even the way Patty turns, for instance, seems to support the idea that the neck may not be as developed as a human neck. Again, not proof, but there is some measurable data. Moreso than is available from a ball of clay with a hair in it.

Igor Bourtsev’s greatest shortcoming, in my opinion, is that he appears to have accepted at face value everything said to him by Janice Coy. Almost NOTHING he has related here follows from any kind of evidence, he is simply parroting nonsense and falsehoods originating from the Carter property. Why bother coming to the U.S.? Just ask Janice what the facts are.

Certainly it is POSSIBLE that some sasquatch “habituation” situations exist. Perhaps Janice Coy actually believes what she says, but anyone like Igor Bourtsev should be capable of assessing fabrications and distancing himself from such people.

To Igor Bourtsev I suggest the following:

First, have an entomologist with expertise in lice examine the samples you described. As you know, lice demonstrate strict host specificity, so it should be instructive to have the lice identified.

Next, Janice claims that a “poop barn” on the property is used by the resident sasquatches. An outside observer claimed several wheelbarrows worth of droppings were contained therein. I presume you collected samples of these droppings for DNA analysis, but if not, have some sent to you for analysis, or arrange to have some analyzed in the U.S. I believe Doug Hajicek of Whitewolf Entertainment and MonsterQuest fame can provide relevant contacts for you.

Finally, Janice claims she possesses telepathic abilities. Test her. Call her up and ask her to tell you what number from 1 to 10 you have in your mind, or what color you’re thinking of, some simple tests like that.

Belive it or not, I get what you are saying about “faith.” and science. In fact, I will readily admit that a lot of my beliefs are indeed based on a willingness to “believe” and also “faith.” You are also right as to the line between science and “faith.”

All I was saying is that an explanation for these occurrences, encounters and tales about Bigfoot may not be necessarily explainable through “physical,” “material” means.

Let me put it to you this way, Jeremy:
Why do YOU think Bigfoots have not been definitively photographed and/or videotaped?
The answers may range from:
A) People don’t know how to use a camera and/or video recorder (I’ll admit a good majority)—
B) People don’t have anything like that available when the Ole Hairies show up—
C) People are so shocked by what they see that they FORGET to turn the recording equipment on—
D) Distance and lack of focus plus inexperience with camera (see A) mess the shot up—
E) People mistake a “normal” creature for Bigfoot (usually due to distance)—
F) Hoax?
G) Drunkenness makes one think they see things—-
Etc, Etc…What do YOU think, again???
It could be one of those things or more—
All I’m saying is that it could ALSO be that these creatures know either A) that one is coming; or B) Since they have “powers,” so they are able to interfere with the shots. It could be that or other things. I don’t know.

I understand what you’re saying about it not being “scientific,” all I’m saying we need to consider that the explanation may not be TOTALLY material. We may need to expand our understanding of what is “SCIENTIFIC.”
I also see them as flesh-and-blood; I’m also willing to consider them as also partly spiritual.
Has it ever occurred to you that they may not be totally flesh-and-blood? I’m sure you have. Ultimately, the weird behavior of these creatures matches with accounts of Native American interactions with whatever-these-are. Always keep that in mind, Jeremy. We don’t know what the heck these things are, ultimately…so we need to be open to possibilities we may not want to “hear.” Not saying you are like that, BTW.

I’d consider myself open to a wide variety of potential explanations, although I must admit that my particular bias is toward them being fully flesh-and-blood creatures.
However I think conjecture about the spiritual or interdimensional nature of BF is putting the cart before the horse, so to speak. First document their reality, then we can begin examining their nature. But until we find a population to study, we can’t confirm any conjectures about their nature. And until we document their existence beyond a shadow of a doubt, we won’t ever be able to procure the funding necessary to locate a population for said long-term studies.

As to the “why” they haven’t definitively been photographed;
1) We are dealing with an extremely rare, and extremely intelligent animal. Like other critters, it’s survival probably depends on its stealth. This is going to be true if it turns out to be an herbivore (young need to stay hidden from predators), a carnivore (young need to stay hidden from predators and adults need to remain hidden from potential prey), or an omnivore.
Like with the snow leopard, a known animal which was only recently documented photographically, its habits and scarcity make it a difficult target to photograph.
2) Limited time and resources. Unlike known endangered species, studies of which enjoy the support of various non-profit and charitable nature organizations and other grant endowing entities, this study is being undertaken almost completely by “amateurs” (although many of those “amateurs” have degrees and a great deal of technical experience and expertise) working on their own dime and in the limited time they have available. It’s the simple logistics of “boots on the ground”. Attempts have been made by certain groups (most notably the TBRC) to replicate the successful efforts of other wildlife photographers in capturing remote images of these creatures via camera traps, but those studies are fraught with their own shortcomings. The batteries can go dead between checks. Bears, human thieves, and even the elements (in the form of hurricane strength winds) can destroy or carry away cameras and the data they contain.
While in my opinion it is currently the best bet for capturing images of these creatures in areas with a history of credible sightings, its not the kind of project that is going to yield results overnight, and requires those placing traps to take into consideration the records of sighting reports, the landscape and how it is likely to funnel animal traffic, the availability of water, etc. As any good deer hunter can tell you, you can take all these into consideration and pick a likely spot, but it still takes patience to wait for one to come along and get the shot you’ve been waiting for. Luckily for us, camera traps don’t get tired, hungry, cranky, or start snoring, sneezing, or coughing.
3) To get the shots, researchers need to get off the trail, where the creatures live. Sure, they are seen in residential areas, along roads, etc. But unless you’ve super human reflexes, or walk around with your camera constantly to your eye, by the time you have time to react in those “stumble across” situations, the moment has passed. And in the areas where reports are consistent enough that you have some chance to stumble across one off the beaten trail, the thickness of the vegetation is going to a) impede your ability to definitively capture an image and b) result in most individuals making so much noise simply trying to navigate that they will be heard by any potential quarry for miles.
Not that I don’t think its possible to capture them on film, or that an astute, wood wise photog with the patience to sit on stand in a hotspot might have more success. But the discovery shot isn’t going to come from a quick tourist snapshot, imo. Even if the shot is captured in this way, the likelihood it will be clear enough is remote. It’s going to come from one of the camera trapping projects, or when some truck driver eventually smacks one with an 18 wheeler (provided he/she doesn’t get scared they’ve just hit a human and decide to keep on driving.)

I’m glad you assent to the fact that this is an “intelligent animal.” Whatever one may say about Ole Hairy, that it most definitely IS.

I do agree to what you say about “limited resources,” “not enough boots on the ground,” etc…as being legitimate reasons as to the lack of good photographic evidence. I would also point to the fact that this creature may be a master “blender into the background,” as well. I have read those “Native American sources” speak of that as well. Supposedly it would be three feet away from you and you would never know it.
I know, it’s a tale, but it’s worth looking into. And I’m glad you at least are willing to give the folkloric tales a chance. Some don’t even do that. They are more confortable dismissing everything outright as “ignorant superstition,” which is WRONG.

Ultimately it comes down to this, Jeremy…
There IS “evidence”, but not what most empirical, scientific people would consider “evidence.” I’m satisfied with certain “things”, but I totally understand that it’s not enopugh for a whole section of the population.
Of the hard-core, non-ambiguous, physical kind, no. Absolutely.
But there is enough circumstancial, eye-witness fueled evidence, along with oral and written tradition and compelling (not definitive) physical evidence to AT LEAST warrant the belief that “there’s a dead cat on the line,” as the folk saying goes. To ME and others of my “ilk,” of course.
Not enough for you or others, but good enough for me. I come here to share in the experience of sifting through reports and talking to people who are interested in finding out about the mysteries of the world, whatever ways on does that. For that, I’m grateful I’m talkiing to you and others. We’re all on “journey to the truth,” (hate to sound sappy)—we just have different ways of interpreting what that truth IS, know what I mean???

I’ll tell you this—
I wish wholeheartedly that physical evidence manifests itself in the way you’re speaking of. I wish that would happen. It would get rid of a whole lot of doubt and conjecture and “wishful thinking.” And again, I agree there’s not enough “boots on the ground” for that to happen. We need more.
What we REALLY need is more folks being opne to cryptozoology and the study of “unknown animals” in general, instead of dismissal by the majority of the scientific community (not all, but MOST).
I don’t agree with all your opinions, Jeremy (and I’m sure it’s the same for you regarding me) but I do enjoy the different viewpoints you and others have on this site. I’ve said that many times. It keeps me “on my toes” and expands my horizons, intellectual and otherwise. And thank goodness, you can have a relatively civilized discussion here without insults and disrespect, wouldn’t you agree?

DWA
Yes Pattie does look a bit like a gorilla but a bit like a hairy human too. I am sure too those many people who say she looks like a hairy gorilla on two legs, would if challenged, have to admit an upright, long legged, bipedal Pattie is not like any gorilla they or anybody else has ever seen. There is also something special about the way she walks which, reading body language, suggests she is competent, has her own agenda and is keyed into some other life which is not mindful of the watchers and their lives. Neither ape nor human i’d say!

You say you got the Afaransis wrong, the Orang wrong but now your impressions of Pattie are right? Sorry, I would have to bet on the wrong option! (I apologise if this dig seems mean it is not meant to be.)

I cannot see there hasnt been failure in getting the goods on Sasquatch. To me its a mystery why, though you rightly point out some explanations but which to me are not enough.

Jeremy _Wells

I was just pointing out the lack of mysterious lack of credible Sasquatch photos. I appreciate the other points you now make about evidence such as tracks and things.

Correct in detail or not, Lidia Bourtsev’s drawings and painting of the BF are absolutely beautiful! And whether these creatures, whatever they are exactly, are truthful or not (I don’t see why not), their portraits by Mrs. Bourtsev deserve a prize and critical acclaim in themselves.

And thank goodness, you can have a relatively civilized discussion here without insults and disrespect, wouldn’t you agree?

I’d like to think so, under the better circumstances, yes.

I also agree that the forensic evidence (i.e. the footprint and handprint evidence) would be enough to convict a man in a court of law, if it were his foot or hand print found at the crime scene. But, again, its not enough to establish a holotype, and that is what we need.

Also, in addressing their ability to camouflage themselves, that is one of the aspects of the stealth I mentioned. Their coloration, for instance, reported as varying from dark to brown to reddish, is going to help them blend into the understory of dead brown leaves and rust colored pine needles, just as other animals do (the Lake Worth monster, which was reported as white, and therefore likely an albino if legitimate, being that notable “exception that proves the rule”). I know that I’ve, for instance, walked in on bedded down whitetail and never spotted them until they jumped and ran when I got too close, and I consider myself rather observant. I’ve even had them sneak in and bed down while I was sitting on stand, and I didn’t spot them until I spooked them while walking out, across a clearing I’ve been watching all day. So I’ve no doubt that a flesh and blood bigfoot could do the same. (Provided he/she kept the wind moving from you, to him, to mask that trademark scent. An idea that is not far fetched considering humans seem to be the only critters in the woods, in my experience, that have a problem figuring that rule out.)

Jeremy, you’re exactly right on that key point: many animals in nature use wind conditions to help themselves remain hidden from predators and/or prey. It wouldn’t be exactly shocking to discover that Sasquatch does the same.

Has anyone tried setting up a trail MRI? A curious sasquatch might just crawl into the machine, which would give us important information about their brain size and general anatomy. Or has this been tried and they move too much, becoming MRI blobsquatches?

“You say you got the Afaransis wrong, the Orang wrong but now your impressions of Pattie are right? Sorry, I would have to bet on the wrong option! (I apologise if this dig seems mean it is not meant to be.)”

Hey. My style requires a thick skin.

Here was my point: my impressions WERE wrong. That is, they were impressions, backed by no evidence. Just like the impression from looking at P/G that that has to be more than an ape. (And there’s intelligent speculation that the orang is smarter than anything but us, at least by our standards of smart; so how far off was I? ) I simply don’t get the impression you do from that film. That it’s bipedal? Hey, BIRDS are bipedal. Some LIZARDS (and lots of dinosaurs) are bipedal. It works; so it shows up a lot. It makes no predictions about intelligence, emotion, spirituality or soul. It’s an adaptation. (I think wings are way cooler; but we seem to have more of a ‘spark’ than anything that has them.)

I don’t see anything in the copious evidence I am aware of that suggests we’re dealing with anything other than a great ape that happens to be bipedal. Which is, mind you, quite enough for me. I think a lot of this they-must-be-more stuff comes from folks who don’t have a good grasp of the evidence – how much of it there is, and how very many people are seeing these animals. The presumption is: how can something like this never be seen? And the truth is, it IS being seen, by lots of average Joes. (A good bet with anything like this is that most encounters are never reported. Most of the ones I read were submitted years after the encounter.) Sasquatches get surprised; snuck up on; startled out of their wits; observed for long periods without knowing it; caught looking in kids’ bedroom windows; you name it.

People presume that lots of sightings amount to proof. They don’t come anywhere close to proof, until science steps in and says yep, that’s proof. And that’s a much more subjective – I don’t want to say arbitrary – process than people seem to think it is.

I would like to very much agree with “DMA”. Squatches are seen frequently–at least, for a creature that is not supposed to exist at all–but until the arrival of the Internet, and even to this day, almost none were ever reported except to the witness’s family and/or closest friends, mainly for fear of ridicule. If BF were already an acknowledged existing creature, verified by the scientific community, all those sightings would be accepted as a matter of ordinary fact. But until and if then, people are even more ready to accept sightings of UFOs and their little gray pilots than to accept any Bigfoot sightings!

I think we can assume Sasquatch is a master of its environment. It instinctively can use scent, sound and sight probably much better than homo sapein and knows how to become invisible. A master of its environment with no tools.

Strangely humans neglect and abuse that wonderful sense of smell they possess. What a waste and what a loss to them.

Its interesting to watch deer unoticed and down wind, they shouldnt be able to smell you but sooner or later they often do because of wind eddies, not apparent to the watcher.

How on earth does Sasquatch, a supposed part predator manage? It surely cannot turn of all its smell? Perhaps it uses it in someway ?

If Sasquatch DNA continues to be collected this should/could build up a virtual halotype. But-science not being on board is it given proper respect and attention?

DWA
Impressions, feelings, perceptions about other human beings is what human are good at, some better than others. We learn and gather confidence about these abilities according to our interest and how successful we become with experience and practice. Its a normal useful and valuable part of inter-action with fellow humans and allows us to minimise arbitrary or wholly subjective descisions. So it may not be science as you know it but there is a lot more to life and humanity than science.
These kinds of skills are not limited to man except in degree nor is the arena in which they operate. Thus we can and do understand non human life with some success and sometimes wonderful success, like Monty Roberts etc etc.
Therefore I consider having views and impressions whatever about Sasquatch is quite valid and is valuable. I think there is a good chance peoples views will converge. With Sasquatch in the form of Patty I think it would be on the point that she is more than an ape and less than a human in basic characterictics. God bless her!
I dont think I would be alone in thinking that mans bipedalism is part of the reason and consequence of his hugh intelligence and the same would go for Sasquatch’s particular level of intelligence. There are other reasons of course which did not apply to dinosaurs as far as we know and birds at least not yet. Sasquatch nearly fits in the human ecological niche and this appears to be one that could lead to further advantage relatively. Or perhaps it is so well adjusted to its environment it needed not to progress. At least not untill now with mans appropration of the planet and messing up of its ecology.
Not thinking Sasquatch is seen is an error of those outside cryptozoology, we know better. But my view is that Sasquatch is more than an ape from all the information that comes in, even though it still exhibits some ape behavoir. Still so do I, dont you ? Or is it apes and Sasquatch exibit human behavoir?
I think sightings are proof within the context of other information but wouldnt quibble if others didnt see it that way. I would expect that they are valued as evidence though.

You’re right, DWA (I meant DWA before, not DMA). I’m not about to get into any debate about whether Squatch is ape or human or in between because I just don’t know enough to do so! I have no idea how keen their sense of smell is, and probably neither does anyone else, though it’s got to be pretty keen, as is that of much other wildlife and even domestic creatures.

Now, I want to say that I smoked like a freight train for 30 years or so and quit some years ago because so many of my friends were dropping dead of lung cancer, COPD and emphysema. Add to the smoking my many allergies that clog up my nose and entire resplratory system, and my sense of smell is almost completely gone. No more stopping to smell the roses for me! So I would only guess that Bigfoots have an excellent sense of smell or they couldn’t survive.

So my paternal Grandad growing up near Trannsylvania Rumania encounters a shopkeeper’s pet parrot who when given a piece of buttered toast was asked “Polly wants some butter bread (?)”; and thereafter the bird demands when hungry “Polly wants some butter bread!” (flawlessly in the native language)… I recall Cheeta the chimpanzee in Weismuller Tarzan flicks putting on Jane’s dresses, make-up and working the tree house mechanical contraptions… And i’ve seen pet dogs taught to say “I wuv you”…

Certainly it’s not unreasonable to suggest a higher level of intelligence for sasquatch genus & species than the aforementioned species.

As far as twisted limbs are concerned, being a “macho” display of males, they aren’t just going to be twisting little shoots and saplings.

A 200 lb. Chimp is more than 7 times the strength of a man, a gorilla of 400 lb. more than 10 times the strength of a 200 lb. man. With reports of sasquatches swimming along the length of rivers against the current and swimming as much as 20 miles out to sea, carrying 300 lb. weights in one hand for 30 miles without resting or running as fast as a horse with 200 lbs under EACH arm (400 lb. total), how strong do you think they are as a multi mile foraging, mountain climbing forager/hunter compared to a comparatively sedentary lazy-butt chimp or gorilla? – Like comparing a sedentary desk locked couch potato executive with a body building weightlifter entering an Iron Man competition.

Just lb. for lb. a Sasquatch would have 2 or 3 times the muscle sinew density/strength and endurance of an African primate (explaining the numerous times they are reported to have been shot in the previous Century, even multiple times with gilded jecketed soft point lead 30.06 class weapons with little effect due to catastrophic bullet failure in the external muscle mass).

An 8 to 11 foot tall male “Bigfoot” weighing anywhere from let’s say 600 lbs. to 3 thousand lbs. would have a tree twisting strength from 40X, to in excess of a couple hundred times greater than that of the average man… Is there evidence of such strong tree limbs twisted with that corresponding level of strength?