Jimmy Howard, Red Wings Beat Blackhawks Again

The Blackhawks came up short against a dominant Jimmy Howard and the Red Wings in Detroit on Monday night, and now trail in their Western Conference semifinal series.

The Hawks came out more physical than they were in Saturday’s disappointing loss at the United Center, and coach Joel Quenneville was mixing his lines early and often. Brandon Saad played his best game of the postseason, splitting time between the top line with Jonathan Toews and Marian Hossa and on the second line with Patrick Kane and Dave Bolland. Patrick Sharp shifted with Toews and Hossa frequently as well.

But the first period ended tied at zero.

Chicago started the second period attacking Howard. A Brendan Smith penalty gave the Hawks a man advantage less than one minute into the middle frame, and the Hawks put decent pressure on the Wings coming out of a failed powerplay.

But the game remained tied at zero.

At 7:49, Gustav Nyquist undressed Brent Seabrook and patiently waited for Corey Crawford to commit before putting the Wings up 1-0.

Only 31 second later, Drew Miller put a rebound into the back of the net to extend Detroit’s lead to two.

The final 13 minutes of the second period were dominated by the Red Wings; even with Smith taking another penalty late in the period, the Hawks were only able to put eight shots on net in the period.

With their backs against the wall entering the third period, the Hawks started the third period with a physical attack once again. They were able to kill off an Andrew Shaw penalty in the first four minutes, and Kane picked up a gorgeous pass over the top of the Red Wings defensemen and beat Howard to get the Hawks back in the game.

Moments later, it appeared the Blackhawks tied the game.

In the rink where Tomas Holmstrom and Johan Franzen have made their living with their backsides in opposing goalies’ faces, the refs ruled that Shaw interfered with Howard and waived off the would-be tying goal.

Replay showed that not only did Shaw not make contact with Howard, but the Wings’ netminder reacted to the shot getting past him.

There was no review.

And the game remained 2-1 in favor of the Red Wings.

Shortly after the non-goal, Pavel Datsyuk shot a missile over Crawford’s right shoulder to make the lead two goals once again. And, in spite of their battling, the Hawks wouldn’t get another puck past Howard.

And, as the third period continued, the Hawks started to lose their composure.

At 8:58, Michal Handzus went to the box for holding.

At 14:09, Duncan Keith went to the box for roughing.

At 19:00, after a few minutes of trying to mix it up with anyone that would step up, Bryan Bickell was sent to the box for cross-checking. It was Bickell’s second penalty of the night; he also spent two minutes in the box for unsportsmanlike conduct in the first period.

And at 19:40, Shaw was sent to the showers with a 10-minute misconduct penalty. For Shaw, it was his third penalty of the night; he skated 14:01 in the game, and registered 14 penalty minutes.

The only player on the Hawks’ third line not to make a mental mistake was Viktor Stalberg.

Toews was held off the scoreboard again. The Red Wings continued to harass the Hawks’ captain, getting in a whack after every whistle. To his credit, Toews was credited with a team-high seven shots on net in over 20 minutes of ice time, and was credited with three hits and one takeaway.

In Chicago’s net, Crawford stopped 27 of 30 shots and made a number of big saves, especially in a second period when the wheels appeared to be falling off after the Wings went up by two. Unfortunately, Crawford needed to have a perfect save percentage to earn a victory again on Monday.

If Chicago’s effort was questioned after Game Two, credit must be given where it’s due after Game Three. Howard was the star of the game, stopping 39 of 40 Chicago shots (officially). He has been the best player in the series, and the Red Wings’ lead is largely because of his dominance.

The series is far from over, but the pressure is on the Blackhawks to answer the bell in Game Four. The stupid penalties and turnovers need to be eliminated, and Chicago will need to find a way to beat Howard more than once to bring the series back to the United Center tied.

If the Hawks are looking for a spark, it might be time to consider Handzus taking a seat. While he did win five of eight faceoffs, he played only 7:24 in the game (the least amount of ice time for any Hawks forward). He was bumped to the fourth line, and continued to struggle against the speed of the Wings’ bottom six forwards.

118 thoughts on “Jimmy Howard, Red Wings Beat Blackhawks Again”

Toews had some close chances but close doesn’t cut it at the end of the day. He has to contribute offensively if the Hawks are gonna get back in this series. Why isn’t Kane put with Toews, since they do have good chemistry? A Sharp/Hossa/Bolland or Saad line would still be a good one. If one of the top two lines score consistenly, the Hawks can win this series.

I know I am going to sound like a whiner here but it seems that the Wings are getting away with pretty much anything against the Capatin. I think it was the third when Kronwall was blatantly holding, chopping, and at one point pinning his stick between the legs of our Captain not allowing him to skate. Am I the only one seeing this? I know I sound like a wimp here but it doesn’t seem like Toews is getting any respect from the officials. Any comment?

Line juggling,#25 in,”bad penalties”,BS REFS whatever!!.JIMMY HOWARD WAS A WALL.PERIOD.Remined me of Mike Smith last year(yikes) peppered and peppered and still couldnt pot some points.Shaws goal was a goal,seen that type of play for years and years and its gone on the board.(BS REFS) But it would not of mattered.Is it me or do they keep shooting either in his chest or his pads?:) anyway rough loss,but i remember a certain 2010 series that we overcame also.Stalberg should of had that breakaway(oh well) and they should try the “top shelf” because the “rot gut” aint doin it for us.SAAD haters/questioners… The kid stepped up and maybe should of hammered his chance tootThought he did alright tonight.Hawks have had alot of playtime with pretty shots all season.THAT TIME IS GONE .EITHER KITCHEN OR KOMPON DOESNT MATTERTHAT PP FKN BLOWS.PASS PASS PASS IM SICK OF PASSING.SOMEONE FKN SHOOT PLEASE.HATE ON THIS DRUNKEN RANT OR NOT IDONT CARE.POINT IS WE NEED SOME FRESH BLOOD.PIRRI/SMITH/MORIN SOME LINE SOMEWHERE.WHAT DO WE GOT TO LOSE? OUR BOYS ARE NOT GETTING THIS DONE.Not Qs fault Not Crawfords fault Not Stans fault.Own up put up or shut up.LETS GO HAWKS

Ok, first the Hawks played well, but not to their full capabilities…the Wings have gotten inside their heads and the Hawks are still more concerned about what the Wings are doing versus than just concentrating on what they need to do…that’s a subtlety, but a crucial point. All throughout the season, the Hawks just went out night after night and rolled their game…now, almost every Hawk player seems more concerned about the Wing player, than just doing what they need to do…this has to change…and if Q gets mad, or even more into a punitive mode, the players will simply tense up and continue this trend. What the Hawks need to do right now is loosen up, and tear up the Joe Louis Arena in game 4. If Howard is going to stop 40 shots every night, then I guess he will, but at least make him do it.

Crawford was not bad again, but again, he wasn’t Jimmy Howard…and this Hawks team is very much heading towards what happened in PHO in the first round last year…and unless a Chicago goaltender can stand on his head and win a game, then this thing could end quickly.

Toews played his heart out, but he was still outplayed by Datsyuk, and no matter how good a player Toews is, and no matter how hard he tries, if he isn’t the best player on the ice when he shifts, then the Hawks are in trouble.

Q is looking VERY foolish for sitting Stahlberg at this point. Stahlberg and the 3rd line were very good again tonight, and were robbed of 2 goals at least (one by the refs and one by the crossbar). I don’t know what Q was thinking, but game 2 may have have been a different outcome with the Hawks at full speed. Also, Q’s allegiance to Dave Bolland is looking outright foolhardy at this point. Bolland has been bad all season, and he’s been even worse since he came off his injury. This is not the same Dave Bolland we won a SC with, and this ridiculous charade of running both Handzus and Bolland as the 2nd line Centre de jour, has now run out of gas. We don’t have a legitimate 2nd line centre for Patrick Kane and Patrick Sharp, and right now it is bitting us in the ass…and it doesn’t matter how good the farm system looks, or how much money it would have cost for such a player, we need one, and yet we don’t have one.

Andrew Shaw showed his frustration at the end of the night Tab, but you forget to mention he was likely the best Hawk again tonight, and definitely the best in this series thus far. He plays hard, 2 way hockey…he’s a great kid and he wants to win…if everyone on the Hawks played with his heart we wouldn’t be down 2-1.

At the end of the day, these game are very, very close, and it is coming down to 1 or 2 plays that are making the difference. DET hasn’t let down their guard in games 2 and 3, and the Hawks have, without a goalie there to bail them out…and that’s the difference in the series…small things…clutching and grabbing but no slashing for the Wings…winning EVERY key face-off…taking the body whenever they have to…making big plays when they need to…and if there is one theme in all of this it is WILL (just ask G. Gordon Liddy)…the Wings have impressed their will on the Hawks (including their head coach) and the Hawks have not yet responded in kind…and if they don’t, we will soon be talking about the same issues that have plagued this team for the past 3 seasons…no true 2nd line centre and not enough grit!

Sr Brad, I agree with most of your comments. I think the way the Hawks played for most of the first 50-55 minutes would get them a win the vast majority of the time but three posts, a horrible call, and about a 3 minute period of terrible play in the 2nd (the 30 seconds that resulted in goals and the 2 minutes that followed where Crawford made about 5 great saves to keep the game at just a 2 goal differential) were too much to over come.

I also agree that they really seemed to let their frustrations boil over at the end of the game and they need to get that in check. This team is capable of scoring 2 goals in a minute, let alone 5 minutes, and they really fell apart in the last 5. It seemed like they were resigned to their fate of a loss and were trying take out their revenge/frustration after the whistle instead of focusing it during play.

If they play the next 4 like they played most of this game, I have to think they win 3 of them and move on. I’m worried because one bad break can put them on the brink, but I’m not panicked yet as I still believe they will pull it out.

Good thoughts Hawks58, and I hope you are right…I agree with you about where we are at…another bad break and this thing is on the brink…I would really like to see Ben Smith get a shot here…or perhaps Morin/Hayes.

So glad someone else posted about 36. When is the last time he won a faceoff? We were getting undressed at the dot; it’s murdering the power play because we can never get set up initially or off a goalie stop without chasing 200 feet…and being unable to win a faceoff isn’t exactly helpful the rest of the time. Bolland also took that horrible penalty in Game 2, and I haven’t seen any individual element of his game that has caused me to think “wow, I’m glad 36 is in there.” Has someone else?

I have to disagree about Shaw being the best player in the series. His overzealousness has led him to spend a ton of time in the box through the first three games. While our kill is unbelievable, we aren’t going to light the lamp too often short-handed. Shaw’s play has been great when he’s been on the ice, but he can’t continue to put the Hawks in short-handed situations – playing hard, with passion & fire is great, but Shaw also needs to be smarter. Saad was dynamite tonight, but Q insists on playing that fossil 26 – I was particularly struck by 26 coming on as the extra attacker at the end of the game. Why not Saad…or Bickell…or Stalberg…Please, no more 26. I won’t claim that I know that Smith, or Morin, or Pirri, or Bollig, or Carcillo, or whomever…would be a better option than 26, but he clearly just can’t keep up. Looks like Brunette out there…like he’s trying to skate through wet sand or something.

People talking about 19 disappearing/not contributing…haven’t exactly gotten a lot from 10 or 81, either.

Just hope we can bounce back in Game 4. Would hate for this magical ride to end to the Dead Wings.

That’s a really tough loss in a game that was lost in 31 seconds. Came out in the third and did what we needed to do – score in the first 5 mins. I am absolutely stunned that the Stalberg/Shaw goal was disallowed and then Datsyuk comes back with a ridiculous shot that probably only Datsyuk has in his arsenal.

I’m not sure the Hawks are worried about what Detroit is doing. I think they dictated a lot of the tempo tonight. This is a “keep shooting and something will bounce our way soon” situation. Only problem is, we have 3 periods left to do it. Goal for this week was to take one back in Detroit and now we’ve got one game to do it. Come out pounding and skating again in Game 4.

Regarding personel, I think #26 is banged up. He hasn’t skated on any of the off days. The staff knows who they need to put on the ice. Everyone is giving 100% each line is sustaining pressure. It’s not a question of effort at this point. We need results.

In the end, this was a typical playoff game between two teams that don’t like each other. As compared with the mess from Sunday afternoon, this one was much more evenly played. Detroit ended up with the bounces, and took advantage of mistakes we were not making during the season. Howard has been very good and has made a difference so far in this series. At this point their best players have been better than ours, but it is a very fine line in the playoffs and that can change.

The disastrous 2nd period was a result of not making the simple play to clear our zone when we had clear possession of the puck, especially near our own blue line! This gave the Wings consequent possession and numerous scoring chances. To their credit the Wings were tenacious with their fore check, but putting pucks into bad areas was all self inflicted.

While it is part of the game, we hit at least 3 posts with shots that clearly beat Howard. The bounces make or break hockey games, especially in the playoffs. We had enough quality chances last night to win the game, but Howard came up big, and we also played hit the goalie as well. Remember when we swept the Sharks in 2010? San Jose did what we did last night. Hit the goalie and shake your head. Wings fans must have been shutting their eyes on many of our chances figuring it’s going in.

The Shaw goalie interference call was simply ridiculous. The zebra’s have it out for Shaw. His play has been excellent apart from being in the box. He is playing his heart out, and I love the passion he brings. Bolland used to play this way. Do we see Q put Sharp back at center second line?

Our power play showed a glimmer of danger, but when you can’t win faceoffs and keep possession in the offensive zone, it has trouble getting off the ground. Winning important faceoffs have been a problem this entire series. Just get pucks to net. This is how your beat a hot goalie. Shoot and shoot some more with players going to the net. One timers help as well since keepers don’t have time to adjust angles and get set.

Stahlberg was good last night. Q sent his message, but hopefully the game 2 sit won’t come back to haunt us. With Viktor in the lineup we are better because he stretches the clutch and grab Wings that are not that quick on the blue line. Speaking of quickness, wtf happened to Seabs on the Nyquist goal? He just looked terrible on that play. Also, Seabrook needs to start pounding more on all Wings forwards. He needs to start dishing out more physical punishment, especially to Datsyuk and Zetterberg. This applies to all our d men. I loved the hit by 4 on Franzen. Give back what they lay on our guys. Hawks physical game was better though last night. They have to bring it again on Thursday.

Sr. Brad’s first paragraph say’s it all. I’m with you 100% there. The Wings will play their chop, hold, and interfere game to the max. The refs are letting them do it most of the time, so we need to impose OUR will on them as opposed to letting them do it to us. Make them pay when they go to the box! I agree with above mentioned comments that the Wings have the psychological edge right now. This is all due to frustration. The Hawks need to just buckle down and play. I have never seen Bicks so triggered as last night. Cleary knows what he is doing. That is HIS game. Hossa is best at that by laughing at other players who mess with him. The penalties late were all due to Hawks not controlling their emotions.

I hate to say it but Thursday looms as make or break for us. I believe we can beat these guys, but this is looking like a great nail biter series and that is what playoff hockey is all about isn’t it?

First off even though I’m bitterly disappointed with the outcome of the game it was a very entertaining game to watch. Especially in comparison to Saturday’s disaster. The disallowed goal was absolutely ridiculous. I watched it eight times and I still can’t see any reasonable basis to waive that goal off. Secondly, did anybody notice how Bickell gets called for the cross-check at the end of the game while at the same time Toews is getting absolutely chokeheld from behind. I don’t want to be a baby about it, but it feels like the refs think they need to help Detroit just a bit so its a long close series. Ihate to say that, but that’s just how I feel. A couple other observations I noticed :1) Howard is playing great for them AND they are getting lucky with the Hawks having a lot of shots hit the post etc. I have to believe that is unlikely to continue 2) Datsyuk is absolutely killing us, I’m a huge Kane fan, but I have to admit right now Datsyuk is better than Kane. Kane needs to step it up and for the first part of the game he looked frustrated, but then he started to come on and play better so the Hawks need that to continue. 3) I recall us not winning a faceoff for a huge part of that game where Detroit built up a lead on us. We seemed to get better as the game went on or the breaks on that just evened out. I even recall Bolland beating Datsyuk in a face off later in the game. Faceoffs are probably why Handzus is suiting up, but it comes at the cost of watering down our advantage amongst the bottom six forwards and we need that advantage in my opinion. I say play Morin in place of Handzus(Morin scored a game winner against Detroit in the regular season) or Smith if it fits better. We need four full, fast, highly skilled lines to wear out Detroit to get the full benefits of our depth advantage. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Howard are playing too well to overpower with the top two lines only. Playing Stahlberg helped, but we need to go all in on speed and skill, sit Handzus and hope for the best in the faceoffs. 4) I liked the aggression of Shaw and Bickell even though they ended up in the box. Shaw’s hit at the end was awesome, I was yelling at the TV on the play. 5) I think the Hawks are the better team top to bottom, but Q is being outcoached and making mistakes on the roster, Datsyuk is the best player on the ice and Howard is right there with him and Detroit got the breaks/calls. In my view thats why Detroit is up 2-1. I think Q will sit Handzus, play Morin/Smith and Howard will crack. I say the Hawks win in 7. GO HAWKS.

Maybe this is just me and I would like others to sound off on it too, but to me, the most frustrating thing we did last night was…. our defenders would send a pass up ice, and it would be to the guy who is coming back at our net. he would slam on the brakes and chip it to the winger, and then the Center and Dman on that side would force the dump it and pinch off the winger from getting in deep… and then back come the Wings. We did this at least a dozen times. Clearly it wasn’t working. When you compare to some of the Wings goals where a Dman hits a FWD skating up ice, they take the zone with speed and get a shot. It was just frustrating to see us force this move that didn’t work. I wanted to vomit after watching that PP at the end of the 2nd. we have an extra man… and we can take the zone…

Oh well… Thursday is a new day. Get that one, and then we are in a best of 3… so lets do it!

Q- for Patch Adams for Sitting 25- poor guy almost breaks his neck in 1st 10 seconds back “trying” to show Q he cares!!!

Brad- you were right all year- no 2nd line center- BIG weakness on this team! And Hawks DO NOT have one in System!!! I know this will not be popular- Perhaps Hawks move 7 (who looks/plays like he is 35 yrs. old lately) or Keith who IS NOT a PP QB anymore!!! Replace w/ Clendening (who is supposed to be a QB) and at the same time free up 5 mill$$+ to pursue an elite Power Forward center! Once again looking at the Farm- that “GUY” (power fwd./Center) is not there!!!

Wall – ( no physical net presence/power forward) this PP sucks- and has sucked since Buff left- and I love Shaw- but the guy is not the Physical Net Presence!!! 65 is the guy who tries- gets the shit kicked out of him- retaliates – and goes to the box!!! He might be smaller than Kane!!!

I would hate to be Q right now: Which gives more confidence to your team – bringing up a Smith and Morin and creating some intrigue or letting the guys have one more shot and chalk game 3 up to some bad breaks…

One thing that is frustrating and I think it is due to the physical play of the wings is that the passing is sloppy and rushed. I do think the wings are getting away with a lot. Brendan Smith holds everyone – his hand is always on a hawk’s shoulder and he only got called once.

I know everyone bitches about Bollig and Carcillo, and I’m not saying they are the answer, but I think the loss of composure and the frustration are a consequence of the ‘hawks not having some bodies who can set the physical tone. So the ‘hawks are just retaliating and going to the box for it.

Who is the power forward on the Pens? Pretty obvious the Hawks PP issues are coming from a lack of getting pucks through from the point and/or over passing instead of just getting in on net and swarming. Attempting to spread teams out and getting a good shot off from the middle of the ice isn’t working. I’d like to see them try to work more from below the goal line but whenever they get the puck there, everyone just freezes.

Seabrook got undressed by Nyquist. Obviously have to force the guy out wide there and not let him cross over so easily.

Rosival has been BAD. Normally I love his patience with the puck, but you can’t be that patient against the Wings. You need to move the puck immediately or you will lose it and that keeps happening. Why is he getting more ice time than Leddy?

Toews couldn’t have had a better chance to score a goal than he did a few minutes into the game. Off the post. Need to score. Credit Howard for good positioning, but he needs to put it in. That said, he played a really good game. He just needs to score or at the very least start winning some faceoffs again.

Disallowed goal was complete garbage. I wonder how the ref felt after seeing it on replay. Was it maybe a makeup call for the “board” (failed dive) by Franzen? I was screaming dive immediately, and considering how easily he continued playing for the rest of the game, I was probably right. Was it a penalty though? Maybe.

Anyway, if the Hawks play 4 more games like that, they will win the series. It isn’t panic time yet.

Some good points by all. I really agree with Sr. Brad’s first post and Tim G’s post about passing. I think Detroit is getting away with a lot of uncalled stuff, but I think the Blackhawks should start to do it in return, not go bat pooh crazy to retaliate. If the Hawks start to hold and hook more, the officials will call some powerplays against us, but then it will have to even out because the league will get involved when Chicago shows tape about the blatancy of the officials. Our passing does not look crisp, especially compared to Detroit. All season we played our game and now we are letting this “savvy” team take us out of it. Howard played well, but we did find some open spots. Crawford played well too, he just won’t steal us a game which is okay if the rest of the team comes to play. What can he do on the second goal (except not give up the rebound) when he has a D-Man sprawled out in front of him about 6 inches away.

Here is what I would like to see. The team needs something different and while I like Bollig, the team clearly needs some more skill. I sit Handzus and bring up Ben Smith to play 2nd Line Winger. I also flip flop not Saad and Sharp, but Kane and Hossa. Also, I think Shaw is playing hard and bringing a good game. He has to stop the stuff near or after the whistle. Here are my lines. I don’t pull Crawford for Emery, but after that exchange between Q and Craw at the end of the game I wouldn’t put it past Q.

The Pens power play is actually amazing to watch. They run the umbrella just like the Hawks, but the amount of movement they use is amazing. Defenders can’t camp on lanes and if they pressure the puck they normally open up a lane for a scoring chance.

As much as I hate hearing it, they just seem to be “gripping the sticks too tight”. Trying to be too perfect or beat Howard with the perfect shots… they just need to make it dirty. The called off goal is how they have to score if Howard is going to continue being this incredible. Traffic out front and throw the puck at the net.

what an unexpected chunker, the Hawks couldnt finish they played a solid 1st period and a good 2nd period that 2nd goal was a killer and now the Hawks face a must win game in the Joe otherwise its lights out,…unreal!

Sorry, no time to read all the comments. Tab, good article and pretty spot on. I believe the Wings stole that game. If Shaw’s goal stands (as it should have) the whole game changes in the Hawks’ favor. Howard was HUGE, but 2-2 after Shaw’s goal would have changed the dynamic.

This is what I was afraid of. Our “really” young guys are being exposed. Regardless of experience, Saad, Shaw, Leddy and Kruger are the youngest guys on either team and maybe a little over their heads in playoff pressure. Q will adjust to make them more effective. Let’s just hope he has the time.

Toews is a great great player. He has the drive and the heart to make things happen, and they will. But make no mistake. Datsyuk and Zetterburg are seasoned pros and are giving Toews a tough time. The Hawks other stars have to step it up. Somebody’s got to be open when Toews is double teamed.

At this point the goal is to solve Howard. He is stealing the show. Take him out of his game and he has the same mental issue CC is always accused of.

Speaking of CC, I thought he played OK….not great. Tab, Did you notice Q screaming at CC to get back on the ice after a whistle? Holy cow….CC’s body language looked like he was lost. What was that about?? Q has put himself under A LOT of pressure!

Finally, and I am not suggesting the 2 losses are Crawford’s fault. 7 goals in 2 games…..does Q make a switch for game 4?

Wings are just playing better. Youth players are stepping up and all the hawk firepower is getting snuffed by the top forwards of the wings? Zetberg shadowing hossa and toews, then the other rookies can play fullout offense.
Just the way scotty bowman would do it. The stars don’t like the defense duties, but have to take one for the team. The hawks are in big trouble. whoever wins this series will win the cup.
GO WINGS!!!

The Wings are NOT playing better or the better team…they are playing SMARTER and that’s coaching. Babock is not to be taken lightly and now he has a 2-1 series advantage against the run-away best team in the NHL.

All that can change by the Hawks just winning one game…and this is where I will single out Chicago goaltending…neither guy has been bad all season, but other than a couple of beauties by Emery, neither have been elite. Game 4 Crawford MUST come out and stone DET. Whether we win 1-0 or 2-1, we have to put the notion of a wall in net, in their minds, not ours.

You wonder why so many of our shots are going wide or hit the posts??? Because the shooters are looking at the edges, thinking that it will take a perfect shot to beat Howard. Bullsh$t…just keep doing what the Chicago Blackhawks do…win puck battles, control puck possession, get pucks to the net and swarm for rebounds…and just keep doing it…relentlessly…Howard and the wings resolve will crumble as they simply don’t have the skill or ability to go with us for 7 games and 420 minutes.

Q doesn’t need to get mad at anyone, he just needs to put the healthiest lineup out there and let them roll…all four lines…this is why a 4th line of Kruger, Frolik, Bolland is so dangerous, because they are forcing the opposition to play their depth big minutes, and no one in this league has the depth the Hawks have.

A fresher Toews/Hossa are that much more dangerous.

The Hawks are the better team, significantly…they need to realize it and go out and win.

***Our “really” young guys are being exposed. Regardless of experience, Saad, Shaw, Leddy and Kruger are the youngest guys on either team and maybe a little over their heads in playoff pressure.***

Mike, Really? Saad was arguably our best player in Game 3, but even if you don’t agree that he was our best player, he was far from being exposed. Leddy was singled out several times by the broadcast team for good plays; I didn’t notice anything poor from him in particular. Kruger stuffed home the clincher in Game 1, and the kill, which he anchors, remains perfect. He’s a 4th line player, he doesn’t have to be a world-beater to be acceptable, and he’s go to be pretty bad to justify saying he’s been “exposed.” With respect to Shaw, he’s been exposed as a bit of a hothead who needs to pick his battles a little bit better and stop unnecessarily forcing his team to play short-handed, but I think his actual play has been fine; again, as a 3rd line player, he’d have to be pretty bad to justify saying he’s been “exposed.”

How many PP’s last nite and we could not score. They need to elevate the puck against Howard. 90% of the time u will not score on him down low.

And he doesn’t committ himself as easily as Crawford does.
I had my doubts about Crow last post season and unfortunately he is proving me right this post season. It is very unnerving to watch him commit so easily.

Where is our lightning fast speed and passing? Come on guys, you’ve only played a half a season of games. Step it up!!!!!!!!!! Your the favorites, remember?

I still have a lot of faith in our guys. We are only 3 games into the series. We responded well to a G2 stinker at home. We just didn’t win. I saw lots of effort from 20 25 65 19 88 2 etc and fwiw 50 did keep us from getting blown out in the 2nd. But I do agree, he might have to win a game on his own at some point. Howard has been awesome but we cant treat him like he’s Roy33, just keep firing, he will give up some

We seem to fix one thing only to have something else bite us. I just want us to win a few face offs, a few in a row so we can get at full speed. IF we are gonna finish games winning a third of the face offs, we’re screwed fellas . PK? amazing, PP? sux. Easily could have won if we cash in. And I don’t like all the time between games either..doesn’t suit us.

I feel we will come at them hard again Thursday, just need a bounce to go our way to win it. I am sure the boys will work hard to make it happen. Lotta hockey left.

People that want to blame the goaltending when they have scored one goal in each of the last two games are stupid. Really. You are dumb. Crawford is not the reason the Hawks are down 2-1 in the series.

Would I like to see the game from Crawford that Brad wants? Of course! We all do! But the Hawks goalies combined don’t make what any of the other goalies in the playoffs make. You know who makes the money?! The big point producing forwards that aren’t producing any points. This team is built to score goals and they aren’t scoring goals. A shutout from Crawford (what it would have taken to win the last two games) would be awesome, but should never be expected.

Depth doesn’t matter when you aren’t getting contributions from your top players.

Brad I like your comments more when they aren’t immediately after the game with you all fired up!

Yeah the Hawks got a bad break on the disallowed goal, and yeah the Hawks played with more fire in the belly in Game#3 than the did in Game#2, but the bottom line is that the Wings played better in Games 2 & 3 than the Hawks did and deserved to win those games. With Babcock and the veteran leadership on the Wings, it’s highly unlikely the Wings will not play as well or even better in Game#4 … and that means the Hawks have to play their best game to pull out a victory.

This is exciting. This is what we should have expected in the playoffs. We will get to see our Hawks tested under difficult circumstances and if they’re good enough they will succeed, if they’re not good enough then that’s the way it is. I love NHL playoff hockey because it’s a grind and there are no easy paths to win the Cup.

Wall- What I’m saying is that the Hawks PP isn’t failing due to a lack of a PF. Duncan Keith makes terrible decisions as a QB. He also can’t get a shot through on net. People without the puck don’t move so it’s completely stagnant. When they have someone carrying it forward, if they can’t walk it across they need to dump while moving so they can retrieve the puck faster than the defensemen. If they do that, they can no longer stack 4 people at the blue line and then you can carry it across. This fixes problems.

And the Pens PP is definitely better than the Hawks PP. I said nothing about them being a better team.

And for the 1000000th time. The Hawks have the same top 3 centers that they had in 2010.

Agree about Keith- Like I said- Hawks may want to move Keith or 7 who looks more like Sopel than #7 from 2010… free up some cap- cuz we don’t have a true # 2 center in system!!!
Sharp is not playing Center- so You are very wrong on that point- Or Coach Q is wrong! Bolland- Is a GLASS doll- Great IQ- but very Fragile!!!

And what they ARE missing from 2010 are A BUNCH of the Power forwards (and no they don’t have to play in front of the net on the PP to be a Power Forward… Brouwer, Ladd, Buff (and I know he is now a D man), Eager!!! None have been replaced!!! ok Saad.

And Yes Tab- I know the Cap got in the way…

But for the 1,000,000th Time— you need some TRUE Power (as well as skill)- See the last 2 SC champs!!! — and they don’t need to stand in front of net on PP to be PF.

Goals win games and 6-7 players are 20 goal scorers.But they’re not scoring plain and.simple.I’ve come to.realize Kitchen wasn’t the problem.Gotta shoot to score ECSPECIALLY on the PPwhich should be easy with the dirty Wings style.NO ONE IS.SCORING.Whoever hammered Sharp is obnoxious.He’s showed up in the net plenty.Maybe Toews or Hossa? How bout the rest.Stalberg gets a pass but that break away was unexceptable SORRY.New Blood on the 2nd and 4th lines.Maybe Brookbank instead of Rozival? AND Emerys been to the Finals.Maybe give em the net. 20 19 81 Smith or Morin 10 88 25 65 29 67 16 Morin or Smith.

I would not trade any one-for-one or the set 6-for-6. But, watching the N.Y v Bos. series, it occurs to me, WHY do the Hawks d-men fuckup and have SO MANY costly turnovers?????? Tab, anyone? Geeeeeeeeezzzzzzz – they seem to be completely incapable of just “getting/chipping/moving/shooting/knifing/elevatoring/etc.” it out.

Also, I guess it’s no surprise, but it does seem exaggerated/EXTREME – nobody, even Toews can win a fuckin’ faceoff if their life depended on it.

I haven’t given gien up, but maybe “MUST WIN” is now appropriate? (And, it may be time for the, “Man looks in the abyss, there’s nothing staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character. And that is what keeps him out of the abyss.” (— Lou Mannhein, Wall Street) speech….

Dickie-( re: Hawks D vs. Bruins D-men)… I don’t watch all of the Bruins games…
but they are bigger/more physical, and will TAKE some hits to get the puck out of trouble-
Hawks D – built to elude the checks/hits/ and try to possess puck for perfect outlets-
Hawks D- when big hit is coming – soft pass/or hold puck and “shimmy” away from hits. Keith is the best in league (that I have seen) at flipping puck one way and spinning away from the HIT in other direction.

I would take Chara in a second- Huge reach, physical, AND absolute BOMB on PP-
Like JS has said- Keith is Horrible on PP- can’t seem to get a shot thru.

Matt, you are missing my point. Yes, you can say all of the young guys are playing well, especially Saad. By exposed I mean Shaw: penalties, Kruger: struggling at the dot, Leddy: losing most physical battles and generally just being out played by the Wings depth vs. depth players. I am not saying they are playing badly. They are simply showing their inexperience vs. the Wings 3d and 4th lines.

You Crawford apologists continue to amaze and amuse me. Using his inflated stats from the season as a basis for calling him a “top-shelf” goalie is a joke. The Hawks have the best 6-deep D in the league and one of the best back-checking teams in the NHL. They clear rebounds as well as any team- and this is crucial/necessary when CC is in the net as he consistently has rebound control issues. I don’t fault him on the 1st (Seabrook blow-out), but Goal #2 was typical Crow breakdown, shoot low and he gives a fat rebound, stay on it and shove it home. Bad goal. 2-0 lead. The Dsatsuk goal should have also been stopped, top shelf on the short side from a tight angle and Crawford crouches. 3-1. Ballgame. Yea, yea, yea: “did you the stop after that when he…” Doesn’t matter. Making good saves later after you’ve allowed goals that should have been stopped does not “make up” for it. As for the “can’t win if you only score 1 goal” disclaimer, well, I’d rather take a 1-1 game late into the 3rd in Detroit than be down 3-1. On the other end, Howard is playing lights out. Just like other “elite” goalies in the NHL do when the playoffs require no margin for error, he is getting the job done when his team needs it. Crawford has yet to stand on his head and lift his team to victory as every other goalie on the teams that will progress to the conf finals has at one point or another. Don’t need your goalie be perfect every game, as they all have bad/average nights (for them), but DO need him to be UNBEATABLE at least 1 game this year. Th nite would be a good time for CC to show up in this mode. Waiting and hoping.

As for the rest of the game/series: Toews is being targeted/neutralized. #13 and Zett are outplaying him. No excuses, he has to man up and make it happen. As I posted here before, why all the hype and hope for a returning Bolland? Terrible at dot and not creating much of anything I can see, he’s a 4th line player at this point. See how Babcock used Datsyuk for key faceoffs, puck control and then immediately subbed for him? Hey Q, if you’re going to dress him, what about Zues for a key faceoff when necessary? Get the puck and get him off the ice! Loved Bick’s fire, appreciated the heightened intensity that was apparent from the entire team once we were down. Was good to get Stalberg back, he creates opportunities but again failed to close (post.) Need to bring that ALL GAME on Thursday, get a couple of breaks/bounces or this is over.

I have been a Crawford defender all year. But I’ll admit its not like he is elite… neither is Howard for that matter.

By definition, Elite would incompass only about the top 3 goalies (10%), but for arguement sake, I’ll even say top 5… and in the last 5 years, That would be Lundquvist, Rusk, Rinne, Quick, and Tim Thomas (sabatical and all)

Howard would be in the 6-10 range with Crawford more like likely in the 13-17 range.

That still doesn’t make Crawford chop liver. He has trended upward and there is something to be said about that. Does that mean he should be the goalie for the next 10 years? absolutly not. But he is our goalie right now, Period.

I personally find it hard to blame Crawford for the first goal. After Nyquist undressed Seabrook, Seabs clips Crawford, restricting his movement. The second goal was a clusterf***, and the third probably should have been stopped. But in the end, we only scored 1 goal… that’s not going to do it.

On a side note: I am very excited that Curruth and Whitney are in the system. Curruth was awesome this year in Portland (albeit with some good defenders in front of him.). The future is as bright as the present… thats something to be excited about!

Am I the only one that thinks the third shot would have been the hardest one to stop? That was an absolutely incredible shot with perfect placement. I doubt there is a goalie in the league that stops that. That was a tight angle? Top of the circle, inside the dot, is a tight angle? Odd definition of tight, Negzz.

Second one he probably needed to stop but when a team gets 3 chances at a puck without help from a defensemen… good luck keeping it out of the net.

And I don’t think anyone is trying to say Crawford is elite, but he is NOT THE REASON THE HAWKS CAN’T SCORE. The Hawks are losing because they can’t score, not because CC isn’t posting shut outs. Crawford is not elite, he isn’t paid to be elite. He is servicable, just like Niemi was in 2010. Oh, and remember who got the Flyers to the Cup that year? MICHAEL LEIGHTON. Stop over-valuing goalies.

And Wall- I would stop using Eager as a reference point (I think you’ve done it a few times) since he wasn’t even able to stay on the Oilers this year. If the Hawks miss a guy like Ben Eager, they can probably get him for a bag of hockey pucks.

Remember in 2010 when the Hawks were seconds away from being down 3-1 in a series against Nashville? Was everyone ready to kill themselves then? Take a deep breath guys.

JS, that third goal was incredible from a highly gifted hockey player. People like Datsyuk and Kane put those away (or can even take that shot). Players like Stalberg can’t. Crawford should have had that rebound on the 2nd goal, but he was also hampered by Oduya sprawling out like a bug on his back 6 inches from him. Can you call goaltender interference on your own team?

Perhaps the one thing I will disagree with is Niemi from 2010 stole a game or two during the run. He stood on his head when he had to. In saying that I would only rank him slightly higher than Crawford in the goaltender category.

I’ve watched that third goal like 20 times because it was such an amazing shot. In stride, quick release, rocket shot, perfect placement. Kane puts that one in and we all call it an unstoppable rocket. Opposing team puts it in and Crawford sucks.

Niemi stole a few games in the Sharks series, definitely agree with that. However, for the playoff run he had a .910 S% and 2.63 GAA. AKA, Hawks are still losing games in 2012 if they are only scoring 1 goal. The playoffs are also still pretty fresh. Plenty of time for Crawford to steal some games.

I am fully ready for Crawford to steal a game by being unstopable. ONE GAME. I am ready and have been since he joined the Hawks. If he is actually going to do that at ANY TIME in his career as Blackhawks goalie, Th nite would be a good time.

That said, I am not saying CC is not “the sole reason” we are losing the series- he doesn’t “suck” and hockey is a much more team integrated dynamic than that. For example:
1. We need a much better faceoff performance in gm 4 (Zues is well over 50% with 2 games over 60% with a small sample size compared to… Toews, who is under 50% for the series and needed as a key man winner. Bolland won only 30% last game and Kruger has been getting pantsed at the circle every game.)
2. We have to impose our WILL on this team and crash the net like it matters (much like we did later in game-3.) We have to quit crying, win the 1-1 battles and push through the grabs and clutches. Playoff hockey requires grit, forget the fancy/schmantzy and man-up.
3. Crawford has to stop ALL shots until the Hawks have the lead and make the BIG SAVES when they matter and quiet the Joe. he must give the team confidence he can stop all comers so they can play more freely/aggressively and not be concerned that any mistake they make will end up in the net.
4. A decent bounce here and there would help, off the pipe and IN would be a nice change as a reward for the effort and execution.
5. The PP is brutal. Not sure hjow to light the fire, but Keith is not my #1-line D guy, that’s for sure. Maybe #1: Leddy/Seabrook + 20/19/81; #2: Keith/Oduya/Hjalm + 88/26/10?

JS- I will stop using Eager as a reference ( my reference is to his physical play/strength, not that he is a very good player- but better than Bollig/Cbomb/Mayers)…
if you promise to never Talk about Stalberg’s ass or his good looks again!!!

3 of the last 5 SC Champions were told they didn’t have the goaltending to win the Cup. How many rings does completely mediocre Chris Osgood have?

wall- haha I’ll try but no promises. Whenever the man smiles I think of puppies running through fields on a sunny spring day!

But the PP. Keith needs to be off the first unit. His decision making and shot selection is terrible. Give me Leddy. Leddy can enter the zone better, doesn’t try to slap pass every available chance, and has a really accurate shot.

Increase movement. If they don’t have an anchor that can stand in front of the net, they need to crash the net while a play is developing. Everyone who is not shooting or getting in a lane to shoot, needs to be crashing for rebounds and retrieval.

On the second unit when they run with 2 d men, they need to swap sides on D after they enter the zone. Can’t one time shots from the point if you are left handed playing on the left boards.

But seriously the biggest problem is entries and I think Leddy on the first unit or a better dump and chase fixes it.

As usual, very good comments and insight by everyone. I still believe that the HAwks have had the better of the play in this series. However, we have not capitalized on our opportunities for a number of reasons. To me, it doesn’t matter at this juncture.

We win as a team and we lose as a team. When we score and play good, Crawford plays great and looks confident. When we can’t score and play poorly, Crawford plays poorly. In this case, we are playing good enough to win, but Crawford isn’t stealing a game for us. What we need is to have everyone firing on all cylinders. So far, our timing is way off.

We need Toews and Hossa to fight through the checking of Detroit and make things happen. We need Crawford to stand tall in the net and we need to stop complaining about the ref’s and the Detroit players and just play the game. Lately, we sound alot like the Vancouver players and fans.

Really? Last 5 winners: Quick, Thomas, Niemi, Fleury and Osgood. You can’t be such a blind homer as to put CC with those guys in their championship years.. Seriously (save your stat justification game, it’s not relevant), each of these guys were BIG BIG during the year they won the cup, including Niemi with countless HUGE saves when they were needed. It’s not just a matter of if you can make a great save (so you’re down 5-0 in the 3rd and you make an incredible stop, so what), it’s what you do when the game is knotted/tight and your team needs a lift that matters. Sometime a team is unstoppable and the G standing on his head is not crucial, but the past 2 seasons are not the time for that argument to be relevant. Games are tight, Hawks are being shut down in physical, playoff type hockey and EVERY SAVE is critical. We all saw and know that CC’s easy goals at crucial times was a major problem is last year’s loss to PHO. From my view, while this year is still “tbd” (still a lot of hockey to be played, I hope), and I am simply waiting for Crawford to put up what he needs to put up IF we are going to win the cup. The games are not going to magically open up in the next round against LA/SJ and a dominant goaltending performance or 2 will be needed even more. I would/will be THRILLED if/when he delivers. Not comparable or relevant to previous winners unless/until he actually DOES IT.

But the “crashing” the net would take “power Forwards” like Pens have and we don’t-
and the dump and chase also requires some physical play to win the puck battle (which Hawks don’t really like to do…)

I wouldn’t mind seeing Smith/Morin , play and be given some PP/sniper role (both are right handed too! Move Sharp to top! Morin has great accuracy.

JS, no disagreement except this. Unless the first unit scores, Keith will take a lot of the blame. If he passes to much or to a covered man we all ask… Why doesn’t Keith walk the line and shoot? If he takes a shot we ask…How can Keith shoot with all that firepower on the ice?

IMO the forwards send the puck back to Keith too much. It is the forwards who need to create some space by moving their feet.

Negzz, I think the blind homerism is coming from you. Crawford has made a lot of big saves in this series and given the Hawks ample opportunity to score goals, they haven’t. IT IS NOT COREY CRAWFORD’S FAULT THAT THE HAWKS AREN’T SCORING.

We can argue about this all day, but the bottom line is the Hawks are losing because their goal scorers aren’t scoring goals.

LA, NYR, Ottawa (although they did have a bad game from Anderson), and the Hawks aren’t struggling in their series because of bad goaltending. They can’t score. When you have to rely on a shut out to win a game, good chance you aren’t going to win a game.

Lots of comments and ideas, but at the end of the day, game 4 in DET is a MUST win…the Hawks must play their best game and Crawford needs to steal one for his team…we get back even in game 4, and we win this series. Thursday will show what mettle and resolve Stan Bowman and Coach Q built with this lineup…WE ARE THE BETTER TEAM, make no mistake about it.

Well, as for Crawford it certainly hasn’t been his fault, but any of those out there that think he has been good enough, need to have a gut check…as John Jaeckel said “Good saves do not “cancel out” saveable goals” and Corey Crawford can no longer allow ANY saveable goals in the net if the Hawks are going to win this thing.

And remember this…Crawford’s best friend, and our PP’s best friend is SOMEONE WHO CAN WIN A CRUCIAL FACE OFF BESIDES TAZER!

Why was Bolland asked to go on every PP and cleanly lose draw after draw after draw??? That is a coaching decision…and if the front office didn’t add anyone who can win a face-off at the trade deadline, then it’s their fault…so which is it? Q or Bowman? Handzus seems like a guy who can win a key face-off…and if the puck is already in DET zone he doesn’t really have to skate much…and he’s a nice passer…and he has a big body that can stand in front of the net…I mean come on…we are talking about Einstein here…repeating the same mistake again and again and again and thinking that things will change is the height of insanity.

Duncan Keith can’t get a shot through from the point…he can’t enter the zone with the puck…he’s not making crisp passes, but he’s our #1 DMan on the PP…Dave Bolland can’t win a draw, he can’t skate, he can’t screen and he can’t seem to pass, and yet he is trotted out there on the 2nd line…wow.

If CC and the Hawks don’t come out tomorrow and take game 4, Bowman and Q will have a LOT to answer for…this team has far too much championship talent to bow out in the first round every year, or get their asses kicked by the last team in the playoffs in the 2nd round.

I imagine if the Hawks don’t score in the first period you will see 20-19-88 and 10-36-81 with 10 taking the draws. And if they continue to not score, you’ll see 10-19-88 and suicidal thoughts crossing Q’s mustache.

And yes, Q and Bowman might deserve some blame, but why aren’t the stars being stars? Why are Datsyuk and Zetterberg pooping all over Toews with half as much talent around them? 3 goals in the last 31 or so playoff games for a guy people think should get the Hart.

Second, everyone is heaping blame on the Hawks and not giving credit to the Red Wings where it’s due. They have completely eliminated the middle third of the ice from the Hawks’ rush, and it’s taken the Hawks completely off their game. How many times have Keith and/or Leddy made it past center ice carrying the puck? During the regular season, our defensemen carried the puck up ice with confidence.

Third, to St. Brad’s comment that Q & Bowman are “putting their jobs on the line with Dave Bolland” – they can’t clone Toews and skate two #19s in Game Two. (personal opinion: bump Bolland to the 3rd line, Shaw to 4C, Kruger to a wing and let Sharp take the draws on the second line… but begging for Sharp to be the regular 2C is a two-year-old conversation…)

Fourth, re: power forwards – what do you do if you’re Bowman and the cap is coming back next year? He has 2 amnesty buyouts coming (likely Montador & Olesz), and he might have some trade options… but do you sign a UFA like Nathan Horton at the expense of another roster player on the current team? The big bodies everyone’s talking about aren’t on every roster, and they rarely hit the open market. Also remember there are only 2 years left on the contracts of 19 & 88, so ideally the Hawks are looking for veterans on 1-2 year deals. At what point is a kid like Teravainen expendable if the right NHL player is available in trade? And how many veterans can you sign before the IceHogs become a wasteland for talented prospects that are blocked by a full NHL roster? Lots of questions for a front office to consider when they – not us – make a decision to pull the trigger on a deal…

Finally, re: Crawford – I always laugh when I read people saying the last 5 Cup winners had all-world netminders and the Hawks have hot crap on their current roster. To say “can’t be such a blind homer as to put CC with those guys in their championship years” honestly makes me chuckle. Why?

2009 playoffs – Marc-Andre Fleury entered that postseason w/ a 15-10 career playoff record. In those playoffs, he was 16-8 with a .908 save percentage and a 2.61 goals against average. The high point of his postseason – indeed, his entire career – was the final 20 seconds of the final game against the Red Wings; he allowed 16 goals in 6 games in the first round that year.

2010 playoffs – before the 2010 postseason, Antti Niemi had appeared in ZERO playoff games. Can’t compare the two? You’re right… because Niemi had NO TRACK RECORD. While the “blatant homers” defend Crawford, some of us forget that Niemi LOST Games 1 & 3 to Nashville, both games ending w/ 4-1 scores. In the first round that year, Niemi allowed 15 goals in six games – two of which were shutout wins.

I’ll buy that Osgood was GREAT in 2008 (35 yr old w/ a .930 sv pct & 1.55 GAA) and Quick was GREAT last year (.946 sv pct, 1.41 GAA). But even if we look at Quick, his career postseason record before they won the Cup last year was 4-8, and his GAA was over 3 in both of his two postseasons.

The point of these comments is simple, and it isn’t the first time someone (including me) has made the argument: the Blackhawks aren’t down 2-1 because of Corey Crawford. Can they win a Cup w/ Crawford this year? We’ll know when the final horn on the 2013 Blackhawks sounds, whether that’s this weekend or the end of June. But until then, all we can evaluate is his performance to date, and saying “Good saves do not ‘cancel out’ saveable goals” only has merit if we’re talking about Crawford playing well for 60 minutes and then allowing a weak game-losing goal in OT. How many of the 15 goals Crawford has allowed thru 8 playoff games this year have been “soft?”

The issue for the last two games has been beating Jimmy Howard. The Hawks cracked him in Game One and, if the second goal had counted in Detroit, would have scored two quickly IN DETROIT against him in Game 3. That is why the Hawks crapping the bed in Game 2 is so frustrating; when the pressure is consistent, they can (and likely will) beat the Red Wings. But Detroit isn’t going to go away quietly.

There are 4 more games in the series. Maybe a new-look PP will help get that unit working… they need it.

Saad Kane and Bolland? That’s there answer? And if Bolland gets thrown off the dot,mark that up as a lost faceoff. As I said our scorers need to pot goals.Not rocket science.1 or 2 will not do it.dirty goals top shelfers whatever it takes. If anyone should of went to the 1st line it should of been Kane.Arleast Sharp could pivot the dot and switch to wing.

I thought the slashing , cross checking & slew footing that is goeing on was supposed to be called to allow the skilled players to play the game. I don’t know if I’m missing something or not but that is not what appears to me is happening. I have alot of faith in our team & our great captain. We are a better team & if we work as hard as they do we shall come out on top no matter what happens.

Why the national media raves about our depth when we obviously have no #2C is beyond me. If the mentioned lines are going to be a go, 20-36-88 doesn’t look to me to be an answer to get more scoring but I would love to be proven wrong. Here’s hoping 10-19-81 light it up if given a shot

Really, Rosey and Seabs on PP??? that is going to lead to a great shorthanded chance for Wings- considering the speed of both!

JS- Power forward
1.) should weigh more than 2.65 lbs. per inch in height- so 16,65,88, 36- need not apply
2.) Should be able to put a guy on his ass from time to time – and when the chance is there
3.) Can finish around the net… so Frolik, Bollig, CBomb- need not apply
4.) Can carry the puck to the net w/ D man on his ass-
5.) Can take a hit from time to time- to win a board battle-

So by this Flawed definition– really Toews is only guy in lineup that is all 5!
I luv Hoss… but he really is missing # 5 IMO- he skates strong where it’s pretty certain there won’t be much heavy hitting- just pushing/grabbing…

Sharp is probably closer to all 5 of these traits than anyone else in line-up.
Then Saad (still a baby)

Crosby is more a PF than Hoss- by my definition-
Brad Marchand is a PF,Lucic,Nash,Brown,Ladd etc.

Hey- like Tab said… there really aren’t a lot of those guys available… CUZ they are so Valuable!!!!!

Tab, no to Teuvo trade… I want a stud forward too!!! But TT will be Cheap compared to the price of the stud… and would be a great PP player!!!

And we can put a little blame on Bowman regarding 36… yes he has been a good agitator… but for close to the $$$ Scotty could have Traded 36 and kept either Ladd or Buff… then again maybe he tried and there were no takers…

Hard to keep faith in a guy as fragile as 36… smart, good IQ, but just not durable- and they knew that.

For 3 years we have had this problem…so if you can’t clone Toews in that time, and you don’t have anyone in the system to fill that spot, then you go out and sign or trade for a legitimate #2 centre…and going into next year we are HOPING that Brandon Pirri (whom I like) can be that player…in his rookie season…because based on what I saw in Rockford, both Danault and McNeil are going to need a full season there before they are entertained in Chicago…this is potentially a 5 FREAKING YEAR JOKE for Bowman…and look at the guys he has signed to take this hugely important spot…and the latest Handzus (whom I like) can’t skate and he can’t practise. Come on, lay blame where its due.

As for the whole PF thing, we MUST promote from within next season…like it or not Pirri, Morin, Smith, Hayes, Clendening, and Stanton ALL must be given roster spots or cut loose…we are doing nothing to help them in Rockford any longer…and I, for one, like these kids…Ben Smith is a winner, and he’s going to be a very good NHLer…the same goes for both Morin and Hayes (especially once they find their legs), and as for Pirri…I don’t know, but I like this kid a lot, and I think he can become our #2 guy next season, but it’s at least 50/50 at best.

This organization is deep everywhere except for 2nd line centre, and it is killing us once again…if you want my opinion, it SHAW that I would move to the 2nd line. Move Kruger to the 3rd group and let Handzus run the 4th with Bolland and Frolik. Shaw is a much better hockey player than most of you here are giving him credit for.

The bottom line, PP or not, the Hawks just need to roll 4 lines tomorrow and get outstanding goaltending from CC…this is the game where I believe he needs to “steal” for us, to get us back even and get our confidence back.

I like CC, he’s grown a lot in this role, but tomorrow he has to shine, no excuses.

That third goal by Datsyuk was an absolutely awesome shot. We have to give him credit for that and give Crawford a pass on that one. Goal 2 is the one Crawford should have prevented. I just want the best 12 skating/puck handling forwards to suit up and then roll 4 lines and keep up the pressure on the Wings bottom six forwards and bottom 4 defensive pairings. Handzus helps on faceoffs, but not enough to put him out there IMO. Maybe I’m wrong, but I think there is additional pressure now on Detroit with increased expectations from their fans to win game 4. They now have something to lose and I think Howard’s going to crack if the Hawks keep the pressure on him. GO HAWKS

Sr Brad, I want to believe you about how good all the young talent is in Rockford that is being prevented from moving up to the NHL. But if thats the case how do you explain why Rockford didn’t even make the AHL playoffs this year?

You won’t believe me, but I am not the alter ego of Pete. I give Smith a shot on the 4th line now. I sit Bolland. I also would put Zus on the 2nd unit PP to take draws and sit in front of the net. We also need more movement by the PP forwards who don’t have the puck.

I hate the 2 day layoffs between games too much over analyzing. Toews NEEDS to show up on the score sheet tonight, I don’t care about eveything else, if the Hawks are going to advance he needs to put pucks in the net or setup guys putting pucks in the net along with playing his solid overall game that he usual brings. Go Hawks! I called 6 games,….its going to be 6 the hard way starting tonight!

Pete, Rockford’s lineup went through enormous changes all year long…and until Karlsson showed up to play net, goaltending was an issue. Rockford had the best record in the league the last quarter of the schedule, they went on a big winning streak to close out the season, with one of the toughest schedules…their best players were in Chicago down the stretch, and Ben Smith was injured for an extended period of time. Plus with their huge roster, they were rotationg almost entire other teams in there night after night. Ted Dent and crew were in their first full season.

So lots of reasons, but they were a very good team, and are loaded with NHL ready talent…how much of it is elite? I don’t know…Clendening maybe? But Smith, Hayes, Morin, Stanton are all going to make good pros. Pirri might make a real good one.

The Hawks recently signed to Rockford Viktor Svedberg…a 6′ 8″ DMan from the Swedish elite league…so to Wall, maybe this is our Zdeno Chara???

A few other tidbits from Rockford…

Ben Smith set records for all time goals scored, +/-, shot %. LW goals and GWGoals
Brandon Pirri for points scored in one season, all time points, all time assists, and all time shootout goals (52%)
Clendening broke basically every rookie record
Ryan Stanton for most consecutive games played (the guy doesn’t get hurt) and for all time +/- for defencemen
Jimmy Hayes for most multiple games with goals scored
Jeremy Morin for Goals RW, and for most consecutive games with a shot on goal.

Sr. Brad- fwiw, Svedberg is very raw, and isn’t the skater Chara is (see chara’s spin-o-rama). He will simply be a giant of a Defensive Defenseman (only 7 points in 100+games in Sweden). From everything i’ve seen so far, he does have a decent hockey mind and a good stick. Hopefully he can come around and he can improve his skating and his shot too. But at this point, it would be a shot in the dark at best.

Yes….we have to give credit to Detroit. Babcock’s adjustments just outsmarted Q the last 2 games (even though game 3 was MUCH better than game 2). Although I hate to say it, the Wings use their system better than any team in the league. Their rookies have been in their system for 2-5 years. They have spent long periods in Grand Rapids and are fully developed into the fold. Grand Rapids may win the Calder.

All this means is what Tab has said. Red Wings have talent and experience and are well coached. Toews is going to be pestered by two of the leagues best veterans. BUT take away Toews, Datyzuk and Zetterburg and the Hawks have MUCH more talent than the Wings. We are down 2-1 because they are playing their system better than we play ours………and they are winning toooooooooo many faceoffs.

Q needs to put away the ego tonite and play smart with just enough desperation to get the job done.

Mike, you are exactly right on pointing out that Wings are famous for Keeping guys in system and developing…. Wing’s young guys are “older” than ours and more experienced in their respective systems.

It appears that Bowman is running the Hawks in the same direction- slowly develop the young talent in the system- to make sure they succeed… This helps keep a Morin type player at his NHL peak in the Hawks system on the Cheap (like 29 now) – as opposed to Saad- when he is 25-27 he is going to cost us a bundle!

COMPLETLEY AGREE with the Icehogs perspective,although I think Danault can atleast take the 4th line duty next season.He seems to be a quick learner and adjusts to the level of competition.Hogs did change alot,for example when the lockout ended they lost Shaw,Leddy,Krueger,Saad and Hayes was up and down.Not sold on McNeil though I like his game despite being inconsistent.I could be wrong,but I believe he put on weight rather quickly and hasnt adjusted.REALLY pulling for Benny Smith to play in this Detroit series,seems its not going to happen.Bickell on the powerplay might be our ace in the hole .He has shown quick hands for a big man and if him and Shawzie can hold there tempers and draw some penalties instead of taking them.I see good things happening.

When Ben Smith & Brandon Bollig signed two-year deals last summer, both contracts are ONE-WAY next season. So their money is on the NHL books one way or another, and I think Smith has done enough for the organization to confidently pencil him in to at least a bottom-six role.

We got screwed a little by the refs. The guys are working their collective asses off (including Toews). Shaw is doing everything he can (maybe a little control would help, but hey, the effort is way above average). Saad is really showing up. …..

However, and I’m a hard-core fan, until we get a goalie who doesn’t let 50 footers by him, we’re going to struggle. If the entire team fails to focus on defense first, we lose. It’s really tough to play as hard as you must on offense against a team like Detroit, and at the same time making sure they don’t get more than 25 SOG.

We’re letting in 3 out of 30 while Howard is giving us 1 out of 40. Until we can match that, we are going to struggle.

We have far more talent on this team, but it’s being neutralized, not only by their goalie, but ours as well.

[[1-0 Det end of the 2nd]]IToews needs to get his shit together 6 mins of penalties WTF! If the Hawks lose this game and end up losing this series I sure hope Stan makes some moves. Bolland-gone, Seabrook-gone, Hossa and his dumb contract as much as I hate to say it GONE. After winning the cup they fail to make it out of the 2nd rd in 3 tries! Congrats Hawks fans you’ve become the Nucks or Capitals,…..WONDER-FUCKING-FULL!!!

And now Toews has lost his focus because TOO MUCH rests on his shoulders…Kane is skating around like it’s kids day…the Hawk’s weren’t even close to scoring on DET in the 2nd period. Our PP is the WORST of any playoff team and thus its a momentum killer.

Until Toews, Kane, Hossa, Keith and Seabrook step up and do what they are paid to do, the Hawks aren’t going to win. Toews absolutely blew that 2nd period, and now the 3rd is the most important period of his life…and the same goes for Patsy Kane and every other Hawk.

Bickell has been outstanding, as has Sharp…Keith and Hammer are also looking good…CC has played very well…but he can’t let another one in…Nada…

Its rather amusing Leddy shot off the post out, Kindle off the post back of the net! Spot on Brad; Bickell, Sharp, Keith and Hammer have had solid games. The rest of the effort is unreal this team doesnt deserve to win. Win a draw, win a lose a puck battle. We saw this last season w/ Mike Smith. Uuurgh!!!

Nothing matters. The nhl is a discrase with their rules of suspensions & how game penalty’s are called/noncalled. It is what it is… not making excuse.

To GIVE any team 3 days between the first 4 games, when every series & team has the usual 2days between games…

The only way redwings have a chance to win in 7 game series is for them to be given. When you win in 5 games your suppose to rewarded not screwed by the sch. When you have to play 7 games, you play without extra rest/days off in between rounds.

The eastern conference will never see boston or pittsburgh (while still have their cores for next 7-10 yrs) when redwings are in their division/conf. or Maybe that will be the end of the redwings biased sch., etc. once their in the east? What will it take, is Crosby enough for league management to have something ref/sch. evenly/right&wrong.

Would a nball sport be better to have that leagues management serve this sport better.

Coach Q for the Sam Adams Trophy… Are you freakin drunk??? I think our PP was out shot 3-0 on 1st two PP’s… And THAT was Q’s fix??? He has lost touch w/ reality.
Shoot the fucking puck ( it might hit a skate and go in)… But alas, they couldn’t even enter the zone with the MOTLEY CREW PP Lines!!!!!!!

I heard Alain V. is available!

That PP is so bad – It has me begging for Monty – Kruger- and Bruno PP ( the glory days)…

Same old story… No size, no Power Forwards, No One attacking the net…

This Team is just like the Phoenix Suns w/ Dantoni coaching… Fun to watch, fast breaking, high scoring team during the regular season… BUT when the Playoffs start and teams really START playing Defense and Checking… the Hawks/Suns can’t win playoff games… Cuz the other teams outwill and play physical game… the Fastbreaks are minimized in Playoffs… no more odd man rushes every other shift… Need to do dirty work, be physical and go to the net hard and win/fight for position!!!

Really should have played 67 and 16 more at least they looked like they cared- 29 and 4 also played hard…

Hey Wall is it the Sam Adams or Jack Daniels award? Either way I need a fucking drink! Play Razor @ home, and dress Monty and the rest of the Black Aces and see how things play out. Zues, and Bolland are worthless!

The Hawks have TOO MANY PUSSIES.
Plane and simple.
Coach Plays OLD MAN SHITTARD Zus instead of HIGH Energy Car Bomb.
Time for time to go.
NEVER HIT or rough up opps. standing in front of our net.
GARBAGE System ONLY Worked when we had “Hitters” who ALL were left go after the Cup.
Q just ” DON’T GET IT” when it come to Playoff Hockey.
Thanks All.
Drink that koolaid!
LMAO.
A.

JS…clearly you didn’t watch the game and only looked at the stats…the Hawks won 10 of their last 12 draws to make it close, but through 2 periods we were at 44%…every announcer on every station was saying the exact same thing, the Hawk’s inability to win a faceoff is killing them. During Toews legendary run of 3 penalties in a row, we didn’t win a SINGLE FACEOFF…we killed off 2 of 3 penalties that spent almost every second in our zone with tons of pressure. If it wasn’t for Crawford tonight, it might have been 3 or 4 to 0. This team has a major hole at centre…Handzus was NOT one of the best Hawks out there tonight, he made mistake after mistake while on the ice, including lobing a shot from the corner on net and allowing Howard to hold for a faceoff while we just had a complete line change and the Wings players were still on the ice (for over a minute and a half) with their tongues waging out. As the announcers said, you wouldn’t expect a mistake like that from a rookie let alone Zues. And what do you expect? Zues is over the hill and was yet another pathetic effort by Bowman to fill the one spot spot that has killed us since 2010…Brendan Morrison, Handzus, Bolland…what a joke. And for 2 periods we were a joke at the dot.

Wont even be worth watching Saturday,has to be the most embarassing game I’ve ever seen.Not one of them looked like they wanted to play.Smiling and sulking with no Hockey being played whatsoever.The Zebras were horrible and the Hawks were worse.I spent over a $1000 to see these games in shithole Detroit to watch a no effort worthless 60 minutes.It’s an absolute shit stain on our history.

Emery solves nothing.
Carcillo solves nothing.
If you think either of those players should be on the ice Saturday, here’s my advice: take your right hand, make a fist, and punch yourself in the crotch.

Crawford is not the problem…he gave the Hawks a chance to win tonight…he did his job. Carcillo brings nothing…the Wings are skating so fast with purpose he wouldn’t even be able to catch anyone.

Saturday you throw that exact lineup back out there and you tell them its on you…put this to pride and see then if they act like pros…because the guys who played on the PP tonight should be ashamed of themselves…and that goes for Toews, Kane and Hossa!

Where has that famous/glorious Cycle game go??? The best cycle game tonite was Frolik by himself for the couple of minutes he played!!!

I wonder if 7 or 2 can be dumped at this point… I think Ottawa has a lot of money to spend next year… better yet call Blackhawks North and see if we can get Ladd or Buff or Steal Scheiffle!!! He tore it up in the Playoffs.

The Hawks have had major flaws all season that were not addressed. Not getting a true second line center has been a problem for obvious reasons, but I think it has also messed up the game of the guys (like Bolland), that they have tried to squeeze into roles that they are not suited for. Handzus is reliable, but he is way too slow. Note to Stan: Oduya was a steal because he can skate.

They get outhit every night, and look at the crap that JT is taking now. There are too many guys that want to score the pretty goals, but don’t want to work, and they don’t finish their checks. You have to give something to get something and as I see it, Kane and Leddy are pieces that Stan should look at moving to get some guys who show up in the playoffs.

I think Kane is so overrated, but people seem to love him when he makes plays in the regular season when half the games are like pond hockey. How great do those pretty shoot out goals look now? I like Leddy but we have too many small D men, and he is not that good defensively.

Oh, and the powerplay, which was stellar to begin the last few seasons, just plain sucks. I could not believe how people were talking about how good it was early in the season, when the success was more to do with the lockout rust on the entire league. Isn’t it Q’s buddy running the PP (Kitchen). How has this guy stayed employed? I mostly like Q’s style, but keeping Kitch leaves me scarching my head.