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DieChecker 14,345

As opposed to what? Ridiculous why? Obstruction from the right is what the two party system is designed to do and thank the founders for it. If someone hadn't put their ffoot on the brakes we'd be in far more trouble than we are now. Regardless, Obama got the vast majority of his objectives passed, the fact that they are destructive and dismal failures has nothing to do with republicans.

I have to agree. Many Keynesians say that we should have spent Twice as much... 12 Trillion. And then things would be Fine.

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DieChecker 14,345

If the dems lose big it will be because they are less likely to fall in line and automatically vote for their party's candidate than republicans are.

I think that is a myth. Everyone everywhere is just as likely to be disillusioned as anyone else. Look at those links from earlier in the thread that discuss how the public has started leaning right and how the Right is more enthusiastic about the election. It is people that are disillusioned who are less likely to fall in line, not Rs or Ds.

I know many conservatives here in TX who don't like Romney at all and don't believe he'll change things for the better, but will vote for him anyway simply because he's a republican.

And there are many examples here on UM of people who voted Obama last time who are simply not going to vote this time. I also know many Dems here in Oregon who don't read about the candidates, but simply vote Dem for every position. They don't care if the candidate is blue, orange or green. They don't care if they have previous experience, or even education. They only see that D on the voting card and choose that one. It is not a Republican or Texan localized thing.

Dems are more easily disillusioned to the point of not voting, and Obama has failed to do many of the things he said he would do.

I think that is another exaggeration/myth. If it were true, there would be less and less Democrats with each election. If it were true, they would give up on many of their "be nice to people" programs that are a waste of money or spent on those who don't deserve the money.

At least some of that "failure" is due to obstruction from the right, which also feeds the disillusion by highlighting how ridiculous our two party system is.

That is another myth. Multi-party governments, like Canada, the UK, Greece.... Belgium. Often have their governments actually COLLAPSE under the pressure of force alliances and horrendous deal making to get majorities. Look at Belgium... They had so many partys and so much differences between them, that they failed to form a proper government for over 4 years. No effective government for 4 YEARS. Is that what you want for the US. Not just obstructionism, but a collapse of the government?

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Avatar Samantha Ai 1,502

You do realize that in my OP there was absolutely no mention of religion. Silver Thong asked if America was ready for a mormon Prez and I replied I'd take a mormon over a BLT any day. Now, in what way does that show how I think?

And again you bring up ethnicity as a basis for your vote but this time use an acronym. Some are simply not voting for a party full of racists that think similarly to the way you have by making ethnicity the basis for their vote. We know that is why some do not like our President. Get over it, your own grandchildren will judge you or be judged by others themselves.

To be fair, from an anthropological perspective, ALL religions are defined as cults as they are organizations for the conduct of ritual, magical, or other religious observances.

To be fair, it is not a cult using a sociological definition.

Also when others call Mormonism a cult they do it in a disparaging manner as if it is acceptable still to disparage the beliefs of others. It is not.

To be sure, it is still done, people still put down others or dislike others on the basis of religion or ethnicity, but everyone else can see these are backward ideas. Unsure why anyone would want to defend the claim that Mormons are a cult, it is a sickening charge, it has no place in modern political discourse, and to claim technically that they are a cult because of an anthropological definition is just as equally backward.

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Imaginarynumber1 11,801

And again you bring up ethnicity as a basis for your vote but this time use an acronym. Some are simply not voting for a party full of racists.

To be fair, it is not a cult using a sociological definition.

Also when others call Mormonism a cult they do it in a disparaging manner as if it is acceptable stil to disparage the beliefs of others. To be sure it is done, people put down others or dislike on the basis of religion or ethnicity, but everyone else can see these are backward ideas. Unsure why anyone would want to defend the claim that Mormons are a cult, it is a sickening charge, it has no place in modern political discourse, and to claim technically that they are a cult because of an anthropological definition is just as equally backward.

I was just giving a definition. ALL religions are cults, anthropologically speaking. That's not 'backward', that's factual.

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Merc14 13,170

And again you bring up ethnicity as a basis for your vote but this time use an acronym. Some are simply not voting for a party full of racists that think similarly to the way you have by making ethnicity the basis for their vote. We know that is why some do not like our President. Get over it, your own grandchildren will judge you or be judged by others themselves.

What in the hell are you talking about? Where did you read I am basing my vote on ethnicity? First, religion has nothing to do with ethnicity and no where in this thread have I read a post that discusses skin color. Second, I didn't bring up religion, Silver Thong did and Black Liberation Theology is the church Obama attended for 20 years. Is it wrong to bring up Obama's church? If so why? Are you embarrassed by the BLT religion? Do you approve of their doctrine? Is it racist to disagree with Obama's religion? If so why? Are you calling me a racist? If so why?

Edited October 30, 2012 by Merc14

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Avatar Samantha Ai 1,502

What in the hell are you talking about? Where did you read I am basing my vote on ethnicity? First, religion has nothing to do with ethnicity and no where in this thread have I read a post that discusses skin color. Second, I didn't bring up religion, Silver Thong did and Black Liberation Theology is the church Obama attended for 20 years. Is it wrong to bring up Obama's church? If so why? Are you calling me a racist? If so why? Silver Thong brought up Mormonism, but it wasn't in a bad way that I could see, so why are you going in this direction?

^

I'll take a mormon over a Black Liberation Theology advocate any day.

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Merc14 13,170

So you accuse me of racism and this is your response? You accuse an entire group of people, republicans, of racism yet I see no proof of it? Racism is a vile crime yet you people on the left throw it around like it is nothing. You've made it cheap and ineffectual. Congrats. You want a discussion on racism, start a thread and we'll discuss the democrats and their behavior over te last 60 years. Pretty ugly stuff. Go ahead and start a thread, maybe you'll learn something.
Edited October 30, 2012 by Merc14

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Merc14 13,170

If Black Liberation Theology is a concern for you and others the charge is probably true. Rational people don't even consider any of that when thinking of our president.

Maybe you should do a bit of study before you judge. BLT isn't a particularly pleasant religion and your president himself, after sitting in Wright's church for 20 years, said "I never took all that stuff serious". What a racist, based on your definition. Rational people don't vote for a man as unqualified to serve as president as Obama was.

Regardless, I didn't base my opinion on Obama based on religion, it was based on countless other aspects of the man that made him unfit for the office of President. I would say my opinion has been proven true based on the last 4 miserable years. You need to do better.

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DieChecker 14,345

And again you bring up ethnicity as a basis for your vote but this time use an acronym. Some are simply not voting for a party full of racists that think similarly to the way you have by making ethnicity the basis for their vote. We know that is why some do not like our President. Get over it, your own grandchildren will judge you or be judged by others themselves.

Too be fair, when I was living in Georgia, it was PC for Dems to hate Whites openly and spew out anything they wanted about how Whites were Satans and how they were evil and corrupt. That is just as racist as if I was to deride black people for being lazy and criminally inclined. We've seen "reverse racism" for decades now, where whites are pushed down to make room for minoritys with lower scores and less experience.

So... Do you have a problem supporting a political party that is racist toward whites?

I think perhaps you are the one that needs to... "Get over it".

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and then 15,067

Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

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"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet. I come in peace."
Marine General James Mattis

If Black Liberation Theology is a concern for you and others the charge is probably true. Rational people don't even consider any of that when thinking of our president.

Would it be considered important if a president had belonged to a church based on the tenets of the KKK? I ask the question to make a serious point. The BLT church is the anti equivalent of the KKK. It's less about race than extremism.

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DieChecker 14,345

Do you agree with that or not? Do you think $2T or $4T in stimulus would've worked when $1T didn't?

No. I think it was a waste of money, and even the CBO graphs show that after 4 years of slightly deeper Recession, we would have been just about back to the economy we have now. So we spent all that money to get a minimal return over only 4 years. IMHO.... Stupid.

I'm not 100% sure that Austerity is the way to go. But, I know for sure that just tossing money into the whirlwind is not going to help either. Even if they "saved" several million jobs, that is millions of dollars per job that was saved. Wasteful!

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DieChecker 14,345

Maybe you should do a bit of study before you judge. BLT isn't a particularly pleasant religion and your president himself, after sitting in Wright's church for 20 years, said "I never took all that stuff serious". What a racist, based on your definition. Rational people don't vote for a man as unqualified to serve as president as Obama was.

I bet if it was George Bush... Or... Jeb Bush, and it was the KKK that he was attending, it would be a great BIG deal. Hate is hate, regardless of who you want to be President due to their Campaign Retoric.

Edit:

Would it be considered important if a president had belonged to a church based on the tenets of the KKK? I ask the question to make a serious point. The BLT church is the anti equivalent of the KKK. It's less about race than extremism.

Basically what I said, but you said it first!!

Edited October 31, 2012 by DieChecker

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F3SS 12,571

And again you bring up ethnicity as a basis for your vote but this time use an acronym. Some are simply not voting for a party full of racists that think similarly to the way you have by making ethnicity the basis for their vote. We know that is why some do not like our President. Get over it, your own grandchildren will judge you or be judged by others themselves.

Wow, you're way out of line. BLT is not an ethnicity. It's an ideology steeped in what you claim to be outraged over. RACISM.

Our national issue isn't racism. According to this 2011 Gallup study, 5% of Americans say they won't vote for a black, while the national average is 22% say they wouldn't vote for a Mormon, 7% won't vote for a Catholic, 9% won't vote for a Jew, 32% wouldn't vote for a gay or lesbian and 49% wouldn't vote for an atheist. People, we're hiring someone to clean out the septic tank, not to have dinner with.

Our national issue isn't racism. According to this 2011 Gallup study, 5% of Americans say they won't vote for a black, while the national average is 22% say they wouldn't vote for a Mormon, 7% won't vote for a Catholic, 9% won't vote for a Jew, 32% wouldn't vote for a gay or lesbian and 49% wouldn't vote for an atheist. People, we're hiring someone to clean out the septic tank, not to have dinner with.

Well said sir.

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Gummug 2,019

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"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" -- Shakespeare

If Black Liberation Theology is a concern for you and others the charge is probably true. Rational people don't even consider any of that when thinking of our president.

I don't get it...so rational people don't consider it at all when a group spews forth hatred and violence? Well congrats when they coming knocking on your door with pitchforks and knives and who knows what, at least you won't have considered it.

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Merc14 13,170

I don't get it...so rational people don't consider it at all when a group spews forth hatred and violence? Well congrats when they coming knocking on your door with pitchforks and knives and who knows what, at least you won't have considered it.

This has turned into a strawman argument. Silver Thong asked simply "Is America ready for a mormon prez?" and I answered "Well, they accepted a BLT prez." It is actually a great question and I have some anecdotal info on it so maybe Silver Thong will start a thread. That is besides the point though, because the wacky left has chosen to run with this strawman to avoid answering the question at hand which is what is behind this huge change in party affiliation. It isn't just Obama either, it is the senate and the choices Reid has made. Crying racism is always a go-to for the left. Frankly it is played out.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Merc14

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Gummug 2,019

Poltergeist

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"There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy" -- Shakespeare

This has turned into a strawman argument. Silver Thong asked simply "Is America ready for a mormon prez?" and I answered "Well, they accepted a BLT prez." It is actually a great question and I have some anecdotal info on it so maybe Silver Thong will start a thread. That is besides the point though, because the wacky left has chosen to run with this strawman to avoid answering the question at hand which is what is behind this huge change in party affiliation. It isn't just Obama either, it is the senate and the choices Reid has made. ft. Crying racism is always a go-to for the left. Frankly it is played out.

Frankly speaking, I am sick to the gills of it, and so are a lot of people I know.

Gummug 2,019

I'll admit, I had to look up straw man argument to get a better idea of what it means. Here's what I found, and the scary thing is, it can be an effective technique if you're not on the lookout. (Don't mean to hijack this thread, just hoped this would be useful to, ironically, stay on track.)