Just to be clear - does this mean I should return the water to boiling before each resteep? I have a tea reference book (which of course could be wrong!) which defines fish-eye boil as 180 to 200 degrees.

JRS22 ~ Not a rolling boil, but when you see larger bubble appearing. If you concern the water getting hard, do add a cup of cold water to bring it back to fish-eye every time. Hope this help ~ T

JRS22, I did not each steep, the water temp stays pretty hot in a base unit electric kettle. After several steeps I did heat the water back up.

Not sure what the "pros" suggest, but it worked fine for me.

Remember participants, see the suggested brewing on I think the previous page ... let me go get the links ... ok here you go. Time is really critical, too long and you will end up with bitter brew face! And since the times are so short, I just counted in my head for the most part.

I got to try the Nannuo at work today. It struck me as still quite young.

I brewed ~6g in a gaiwan (~6oz), flash rinse, and rest, then 3s, 10s, 20s, (rest), 20s, 30s, 45s. I'm going to probably get another 5 or 6 steeps tomorrow.

The first steep was a poor reflection of what was to come. The rest of them yielded a very strong yellow liquor, clear. I had a variety of experiences while drinking this one -- small head-rushes, waves of nicely powered bitterness with a resulting sweetness that had me smacking my lips. Hints of floral tones, the occasional "greenness," and throughout a sense of straw.

Every time I smelled the leaves, all I really got was warm straw. Very faintest hints of floral, but rare. The leaves were pretty beat up, though, which was apparent even before steeping...

Here are my notes. I can't describe tastes the way some of the more seasoned tea drinkers can, and this is my very first high-quality raw pu'er, so don't expect much. Here goes...

First, the parameters:90ml gaiwan, with half the leaves in the packet. (I was aiming to fill the gaiwan 1/3 of the way, but that didn't leave enough for another session. Since the flavor was not strong, I probably could have used more leaves.)Brief rinse, 5s, 10s, 30s, 40s, 1m, longer, very long.Boiling water, re-heating every time.

I was expecting something intensely bitter, but the first two infusions were light and fresh, much like Chinese greens but with a "pu'er mouthfeel" (numbness or something on the tongue...you know what I mean, right?) Hoping for a stronger brew, I increased the time to 30s, making the third infusion pleasantly bitter. Later infusions kept up the same bitterness, but were also unexpectedly sweet. Little flavor remained in the last infusion, so I probably kept going too long. Overall, pleasant and mild; much milder than I expected based on the plantation tea I've tried before.

I wrote these notes before reading anyone else's. I just read Seeker's description, and I definitely don't detect woodiness or "smokiness and tar"--maybe it was the brewing, or my untutored palate, or we just don't taste the same things.

Thanks, Chip, for packaging and mailing all those samples! I hope someone else will taste the Manmai and tell me if I'm on track.

Mr. Usaji wrote:I was expecting something intensely bitter, but the first two infusions were light and fresh, much like Chinese greens but with a "pu'er mouthfeel" (numbness or something on the tongue...you know what I mean, right?) Hoping for a stronger brew, I increased the time to 30s, making the third infusion pleasantly bitter. Later infusions kept up the same bitterness, but were also unexpectedly sweet. Little flavor remained in the last infusion, so I probably kept going too long. Overall, pleasant and mild; much milder than I expected based on the plantation tea I've tried before.

Sounds like you are definitely on track to me. You were able to pick out the feelings quite nicely. The more you drink, the flavors will become more evident as well.

Just to be clear - does this mean I should return the water to boiling before each resteep? I have a tea reference book (which of course could be wrong!) which defines fish-eye boil as 180 to 200 degrees.

JRS22 ~ Not a rolling boil, but when you see larger bubble appearing. If you concern the water getting hard, do add a cup of cold water to bring it back to fish-eye every time. Hope this help ~ T

Just a note -- I too was confused as I paid more attention to the stated temp, 212*. 212*=rolling boil. Fish eye is cooler, something like 190? Not sure, I'd have to check by doing.BTW - fisheye is when small-ish (not too small, not too big) bubbles begin to form and then rise, right?Add - just checked water boiling temps for what I think is fisheye, seems to be around 185 to 190 - smallish bubbles that flicker on the bottom like they're winking at you really fast.How's that sound?

Hmmm, exploring the nuances of boiling water.At 200, tiny bubbles are rising and coming to surface.Then at 205, I noticed slightly larger bubbles that lingered and traveled on the surface a little bit, these bubbles seemed 'wet' or even 'oily' in appearance (seems redundant or weird), makes me wonder if this is fisheye boil - 205? If anything looked like fisheyes, these were the ones.Quickly after 205, the surface of the water starts to roll, at 212 the water is rolling real hard and fast like rapids.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 180 was the approximate temp for fisheye boil, but I'm pretty sure I read that on the net, and the net is rife with misinformation.

Seeker wrote:Hmmm, exploring the nuances of boiling water.At 200, tiny bubbles are rising and coming to surface.Then at 205, I noticed slightly larger bubbles that lingered and traveled on the surface a little bit, these bubbles seemed 'wet' or even 'oily' in appearance (seems redundant or weird), makes me wonder if this is fisheye boil - 205? If anything looked like fisheyes, these were the ones.Quickly after 205, the surface of the water starts to roll, at 212 the water is rolling real hard and fast like rapids.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 180 was the approximate temp for fisheye boil, but I'm pretty sure I read that on the net, and the net is rife with misinformation.

Ah, the terms I've heard are usually crab-eye, fish-eye, and rolling boil. I always took crab-eye to be when bubbles first start appearing (the small ones), and fish-eye to be the larger bubbles.

Regardless of what you call them, I'd go with the start-middle-end concept. Small in the beginning, rolling boil at the end. Put the 'middle' in between. Close enough. If it needed to be more exact, then they would use something with numbers and temperature.

Anyway, back to the tea, I had a continuation of my session of the Nannuo at work (though not as much as I wanted because of a busy day). I noticed that the flavors of the Nannuo came through much stronger (and more enjoyable) as the tea cooled....

Infusions (5 total so far) are in order 1 thru 5, top to bottom.Leaf quality seems good in terms of lack of debris - only one 'twig' and I think the leaves had merely detached. Not sure how to assess quantity of broken vs. whole leaves.Overall, leaves seem small to me, given what I'm being taught. I am currently leaning toward the information that suggests Yunnan is making puerhs that are drinkable with less aging - thus the larger amounts of smaller leaves and even buds. My teacher suggests that high quality puerh leaves that go into the creation of very high quality puerh are around 3" long. I have yet to meet anyone (including her) who has done what I talked about in an earlier post - tasted a young sheng bing, then taste again after 15-30yrs of proper aging - comparing detailed tasting notes. I hope to have this experience. BTW - currently my teacher and several tea associates of hers are aging just such sheng bings that they believe (based on their extensive experience) are high quality leaf - and aging them at several different sites around the world (including key sites in China of course). They are going to taste them routinely to assess the aging, and continue to do so periodically until proper aging is reached. Be interesting to see the results 15-20yrs from now. Also interesting will be assessment of aging in different climate conditions - actually being able to compare the same bings. Wow. Whew! What a wait tho until final results!Ahem, anyway - back to the matter at hand.Again - as is my experience with all young shengs so far - smoky, woody, campfire-y and slight hints of tarry aromas and flavors. On both this tea and the Manmai - I do not find these flavors and aromas seriously unpleasant or horribly off-putting (as with some other sheng bings I've experienced). And again as with the Manmai - no chan ko (choke throat) - a good sign I think. However, I do find this tea strong enough at this age that I wouldn't personally drink this tea for enjoyment now - other than the big enjoyment I get from participating in tastings/experiences like this. But this isn't a sit-down-and-revel-in-it-tea like Shincha, or Sencha, or Matcha, or Oolong to name a few.There is also a dark, green, deep-forest kind of woody and yet somehow also 'green' aroma (I know 'green' isn't an aroma, but I can't find a word for it) and taste that is buried deep within the smokiness that I find intriguing and interesting.I loved smelling the dry cup (thank you Tim for that pointer!) - there was much sweetness, and if I let my imagination go wandering a little bit, a sort of woody toffee-ness. This was most evident in the 1st 4 infusions, and tapered off in the 5th.I experienced some mouth tingles. And as I tasted the tea with my body, from the neck down, there was a slightly warm goodness, whereas some other young shengs seem to impart a kind of chaos and spikiness. (a master Chinese physician taught me to 'taste' tea with the body, from the neck down. It's very informative - try it. Feel the energy, the impact on body, both subtle and gross).Cheers.

Seeker wrote:Hmmm, exploring the nuances of boiling water.At 200, tiny bubbles are rising and coming to surface.Then at 205, I noticed slightly larger bubbles that lingered and traveled on the surface a little bit, these bubbles seemed 'wet' or even 'oily' in appearance (seems redundant or weird), makes me wonder if this is fisheye boil - 205? If anything looked like fisheyes, these were the ones.Quickly after 205, the surface of the water starts to roll, at 212 the water is rolling real hard and fast like rapids.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that 180 was the approximate temp for fisheye boil, but I'm pretty sure I read that on the net, and the net is rife with misinformation.