The really old rules (1st Printing) had use a d20 to get initiative with a 20 having the effects of a Joker. The problem with this (and what is really great about the card system) is that there will be ties (not in the card system).

Personally, I recommend using cards like normal.

Don

"But there is a difference between fear and horror. An important difference.
Fear is when you worry about what might be.
Horror is when you are certain." Dannyboy01

shadd4d wrote:The really old rules (1st Printing) had use a d20 to get initiative with a 20 having the effects of a Joker. The problem with this (and what is really great about the card system) is that there will be ties (not in the card system).

Actually, the original option used a d12, making ties (and Jokers!) more common. The d20 version was an alternative I proposed on the forums later.

Basically, roll a d20 for initiative instead of drawing cards. Edges work basically the same way except Level-Headed (or Improved) allows roll 2 or 3 dice and taking the best, and Quick allows rerolls on a 5 or less.

It's not nearly as visual as the card system, but since players don't use d20s for anything else in the system, they can roll and leave the die in front of them to note when they go. And a 20 counts as a Joker.

Clint wrote:Basically, roll a d20 for initiative instead of drawing cards. Edges work basically the same way except Level-Headed (or Improved) allows roll 2 or 3 dice and taking the best, and Quick allows rerolls on a 5 or less.

This is basically what I had to do for an online mostly-text-based Savage Worlds campaign, since we had a die-roller program rigged up, but a card-based initiative program would have been more complicated to put together, with little in the way of payoff. (We wouldn't benefit from the tactile nature of having a card in hand, anyway.) To reduce the chance of ties, since we were playing with "electronic" dice anyway, we just upped it to "percentile dice," and changed the ranges for Quick and for Jokers accordingly. I still prefer using cards when I get the chance, but given the peculiar gaming environment, it sufficed.

This is a little more fiddly, but you could roll Agility + Smarts as a fixed roll (no Wild Die). Quick gives you +2; Level-Headed gives you a re-roll. If the high roller has a raise over the second highest, they gain the Joker effect.

Ron Blessing wrote:This is a little more fiddly, but you could roll Agility + Smarts as a fixed roll (no Wild Die). Quick gives you +2; Level-Headed gives you a re-roll. If the high roller has a raise over the second highest, they gain the Joker effect.

The problem is how that variant would interact with the edges that take effect (which I can never remember the names of) when you draw a joker. If multiple people in the party want a joker under the current system, it's more or less even. If multiple people want one under your modification, it's likely nobody would get one.

Ron Blessing wrote:This is a little more fiddly, but you could roll Agility + Smarts as a fixed roll (no Wild Die). Quick gives you +2; Level-Headed gives you a re-roll. If the high roller has a raise over the second highest, they gain the Joker effect.

The problem is how that variant would interact with the edges that take effect (which I can never remember the names of) when you draw a joker. If multiple people in the party want a joker under the current system, it's more or less even. If multiple people want one under your modification, it's likely nobody would get one.

First off, this came off the top of my head, so this is all conjecture. That said, it seems to me it won't be uncommon for #1 initiative to be 4 higher than #2, so I'd bet the Joker effect would happen more, rather than never. But it would need to be tested to prove it. I'm sure it could be mathed out, too.

Another idea: For initiative, you roll a d12. This can Ace, and if you get 20+, it counts as a Joker. This has roughly the same probability as drawing a Joker from a deck of cards. Edges work the same as Clint's d20 idea.

77IM wrote:Another idea: For initiative, you roll a d12. This can Ace, and if you get 20+, it counts as a Joker. This has roughly the same probability as drawing a Joker from a deck of cards. Edges work the same as Clint's d20 idea.

-- 77IM

I suppose ... but drawing cards is cool ... you can't compete with that! Pulling a Joker or an Ace at a critical moment is almost worthy of applause ... rolling a d12, acing and then rolling almost another ace is noteworthy at best. Just my opinion but there you have it.

And another thing is ties = another roll off.

And what if there are effectively 2+ Jokers in play at the same time because of lucky dice rolls ... then more dice-offs.

If you have Quick you re-roll rolls of 5 or less. With Level-headed you roll twice and keep the best ... just adds a lot more dice-rolling when you could just draw a card. Rolling is simply not F!F!F!

If you don't have a deck of cards then fine ... roll away. If you have a deck of cards just "DRAW!"

Dean: "Ya' know she could be faking."
Sam: "Yeah, what do you wanna do, poke her with a stick?"
[Dean nods]
Sam: "Dude, you're not gonna poke her with a stick?"
Supernatural Quotes

77IM wrote:Another idea: For initiative, you roll a d12. This can Ace, and if you get 20+, it counts as a Joker. This has roughly the same probability as drawing a Joker from a deck of cards. Edges work the same as Clint's d20 idea.

Gets a bit tricky with Quick as the odds of drawing a 5 or less is a bit different from rolling a 5 or less on a d12.

Maybe another idea would be to use a single d6, and if it aces twice (for a 12+), the character acts as if they have the joker.

77IM wrote:Another idea: For initiative, you roll a d12. This can Ace, and if you get 20+, it counts as a Joker. This has roughly the same probability as drawing a Joker from a deck of cards. Edges work the same as Clint's d20 idea.

Gets a bit tricky with Quick as the odds of drawing a 5 or less is a bit different from rolling a 5 or less on a d12.

Maybe another idea would be to use a single d6, and if it aces twice (for a 12+), the character acts as if they have the joker.

77IM wrote:Another idea: For initiative, you roll a d12. This can Ace, and if you get 20+, it counts as a Joker. This has roughly the same probability as drawing a Joker from a deck of cards. Edges work the same as Clint's d20 idea.

Gets a bit tricky with Quick as the odds of drawing a 5 or less is a bit different from rolling a 5 or less on a d12.

True, but that is also true of the d20 idea. For d12, if you let Quick reroll on a 4 or less, the odds are about the same. For d20, you could let Quick reroll on a 6 or less.

OT
Sphere of AnnihilationBolt 3x3d10 HW. No range. Target must be killed or there is no effect what so ever. If the target is killed the body and all it's gear is forever destroyed.

Back to the topic.
I LOVE the cards. They are easy to use. Very visual and you can do lovely things with them. I was running a modern supernatural game where the players were fighting a tarot based demon called the Ten of Swords. The demon had a number of things it could do every turn so I decided to use the deck to decide. Without the players knowledge I pulled the clubs out of the deck replacing them with more spades. I used the number of spades drawn in a round to decide what the demon did. It worked out quite well. The players caught on after a round or so and began to get into it. At one point the player with level headed chose to go with a lower card in an attempt to influence the demon by putting another spade in play. You could never do this kind of things with dice.