cannabisnews.com: Medicinal Marijuana
Medicinal Marijuana
Posted by CN Staff on February 08, 2004 at 07:15:33 PT
By Susan Bacon, Pilot & Today Staff
Source: Steamboat Pilot & Today
When President George W. Bush was running for office in 2000, Allen St. Pierre listened carefully when the candidate addressed one issue: medical marijuana. St. Pierre, now the executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws in Washington, D.C., wanted to know how a strong supporter of states' rights would view state laws permitting medicinal marijuana use, laws that directly conflict with federal rules prohibiting all use of the drug.
While Bush campaigned in Maine, St. Pierre had a journalist friend ask Bush the medical marijuana question, to which the president said he supported states' rights but would rigorously enforce federal laws, St. Pierre said.Medicinal marijuana cases, such as the current one involving Hayden resident Don Nord, have highlighted a classic conflict between how state and federal governments share power. As disputes over medical marijuana laws make their way into higher courts, basic drug laws and the power shared by state and federal governments could be up for a challenge.The issue has risen through the court system in several states that have approved medicinal marijuana rules, most notably California.Nord's case, which stemmed from an October drug raid on his home, is the first time the conflict has appeared in Colorado courts, legal experts say.St. Pierre is watching the Colorado case, as are many lawyers, supporters of states' rights and supporters of marijuana legalization."It is drawing a lot of legal attention all around the country," St. Pierre said. "These (issues) will be playing out over a number of decades, and they will redefine the role of the federal government and the state government."Sean Connelly, a federal prosecutor for 12 years who now works as a private attorney in Denver, said he's followed the case and thinks it could bring up bigger issues, such as the validity of Colorado's medicinal marijuana law."It's unusual," Connelly said. "It's something, though, I believe elected and appointed officials anticipated at the time of the passage of (Colorado's medicinal marijuana law)."The Hayden conflict Medicinal marijuana became legal in 1996 when California and Arizona passed laws allowing residents with illnesses such as AIDS and cancer to use the drug. Since then, eight other states -- Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Nevada, Oregon and Washington -- have followed with medicinal marijuana laws.An amendment to the Colorado Constitution allowing medicinal uses of marijuana was passed by 54 percent of state voters Nov. 7, 2000.Less than three years after its passage, on Oct. 14, the state-federal conflict that the amendment's opposition had anticipated sprouted up in Hayden, when Nord's home was searched by officers with the Grand, Routt and Moffat Narcotics Enforcement Team.Nord, 57, who has battled cancer, diabetes and chronic pain, is a registered marijuana user under Colorado law. Drug possession charges were not pressed against Nord because they were filed too late, but Nord's plants, growing equipment and drugs were taken.A few weeks later, Nord went to court to get his drugs back. Routt County Judge James Garrecht ordered that the drugs be returned and, after they were not, issued contempt citations for the officers involved in the search. The U.S. Attorney's Office then entered the case on behalf of the officers.Now, U.S. District Judge Walker Miller is deciding whether the case should be removed from the state court system and decided in a federal court.On Jan. 29, Nord and his attorney, Kristopher Hammond, walked amid Denver's tall, glassy buildings on their way to federal court. Nord carried his oxygen supply, answering reporters' questions and smiling for photographers. He told them that though he didn't expect the case to make it to Denver, he would take it as far as he could. Central legal issues In the federal District Court hearing last month, assistant U.S. attorney Michael Hegarty said the U.S. Attorney's Office didn't seek out the dispute but entered the case because federal officers faced contempt charges for doing their jobs.The clear conflict between state and federal rules was a focus of Hegarty's brief asking that the contempt citations be dismissed.According to the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, federal law overrides state law when the two conflict, the brief reads. Similarly, officers are not bound by the order of a county court judge that also conflicts with federal law, the brief reads.Officers involved in the case, who are either federal agents with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, or are county and municipal officers deputized through the federal GRAMNET task force, were acting under federal law and followed it perfectly, Hegarty said.Central to Hammond's argument that the case should not be removed to a federal court is that most of the officers involved in the search were not truly federal agents and so should follow state law. Hammond told the federal district judge that since the search warrant was requested through a state judge, and charges would have been filed in state court, state rules could not be ignored."It's deceptively simple," Hammond said later. "Should GRAMNET obey a court order? "But, it opens a huge Pandora's box of other questions. ... On a larger scale, it might affect how other task forces operate. It could go beyond that," he said.How far will it go? The Colorado case brings up larger issues, such as whether the federal government should have any control over drug use within states, some legal experts say.Drug laws stem from the 1970 Controlled Substances Act, which is based on the federal government's right to regulate interstate commerce. To regulate distribution and possession of drugs between states, the act says that the federal government must have a similar control of drugs within each state. The act also designates marijuana as a Schedule I drug, which means it has high potential for abuse and has no accepted medical use."What the (federal) government is trying to do is reach inside a state and regulate an activity wholly within a state that has nothing to do with interstate commerce because they disapprove of that activity," said Randy Barnett, a professor at Boston University School of Law. "They're overstepping their bounds."Barnett represented two women who use marijuana for medicinal purposes in a case that made it to the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. On Dec. 16, that court ruled in favor of Barnett, saying it is unconstitutional to prosecute sick people under federal law for using medicinal marijuana if the users grow the drug or get it free.If the decision holds, the two women cannot be arrested for using or growing medicinal marijuana, a ruling that should set helpful precedent for other medicinal marijuana users.Any court case involving a state marijuana law could turn into an opportunity to challenge federal power over drug laws, or simply federal power over states.But whether the Colorado case will give a federal court a chance to rule on the conflict between federal and state marijuana laws remains to be seen.The case could be too narrow to allow for a broader, precedent-setting ruling that either would challenge the state law or dilute federal control, said Jeralyn Merritt, a Denver-based criminal defense attorney who has followed Nord's case from its start.The case is not positioned to allow a ruling on whether the state law trumps the federal law, or vice versa, Merritt said. Rather, this case is about whether the officers were justified in refusing to obey a state court order.Nonetheless, it may find its way to the U.S. Supreme Court, she said. "There's no question, it could have national implications," Merritt said. "It's important in the sense that you have a state saying to the feds, ‘If you don't follow the rules, you're accountable to us.'"It's telling the feds they can't just thumb their nose at state law. They're subject to the rules, too."California cases Rulings on medicinal marijuana state laws have made headlines during the past few years, with the most notable cases coming out of California.Barnett's recent victory is one of those spotlight cases.Also, in October 2002, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco upheld the right of doctors to recommend marijuana to their patients based on First Amendment rights. The U.S. Supreme Court chose -- coincidentally, on the same day that GRAMNET raided Nord's home -- not to hear the case, in effect upholding that ruling. However, in a 2001 case, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that medical need was not a valid defense for distributing marijuana to sick people, saying that there was not enough scientific evidence showing the drug was helpful.No medicinal marijuana decisions have come out of the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, legal experts said. Colorado is the only state within that court's jurisdiction to permit medicinal use of marijuana.Whether Nord's case continues to higher courts or ends within the next few weeks depends, in part, on funding. Nord, who is on a fixed income, pays Hammond $100 a week, a fraction of the case's costs."In a perfect world, we would fight the case as far as we had to go to fight it," Hammond said. "This isn't a perfect world. But if everybody in the United States who ever smoked marijuana sent Don a dollar, we wouldn't have any financial problems."Hammond, new to medicinal marijuana litigation, has been receiving help from people across the state and country in the form of advice, research and other tips.A legal defense fund has been set up for Don Nord, Hammond said, and funds can be donated to Don Nord at P.O. Box 1616, Hayden, CO 81639.Note: Conflict has small-town start, may set big-time precedent. Source: Steamboat Pilot & Today, The (CO)Author: Susan Bacon, Pilot & Today Staff Published: Sunday, February 8, 2004 Copyright: 2004 The Steamboat Pilot & TodayContact: editor steamboatpilot.comWebsite: http://www.steamboatpilot.com/Related Articles & Web Site:NORML http://www.norml.org/Our View: Marijuana's Legality http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18320.shtmlBehind The Heads: What's Next in Pot Case? http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18278.shtmlNord's Pot Case Goes To Denver http://cannabisnews.com/news/thread18265.shtml
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Comment #89 posted by FoM on February 10, 2004 at 08:27:18 PT
kapt
It was cocaine that caused the problem more then people at least that's what I remembered from the news I saw years ago. Back then people were trying different drugs and only now do we know that some drugs aren't a good thing. Actually back then I thought Meth was the best of all the drugs available but now I know how bad Meth is.
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Comment #88 posted by kaptinemo on February 10, 2004 at 08:23:18 PT:
FoM, as I said, it wasn't a pleasent surprise
This is why I have been saying for years that this movement cannot afford to allow the egos of individual members to ever compromise our goals, ever again. This is a second chance. We will not get a third one. PATRIOT Act. Secret tribunals. Concentration camps for US-born 'enemy combatants' in and outside of the United States, where they are held without counsel. Shipping of foreign nationals like the Canadian Mr. Arar to Syria for torture. Both US defendents and their court cases disappearing into the American version of the Nazi "Nacht und Nebel" (Night and Fog)...we are very, very close to the edge, here. Any victory in the arena of civil rights will cause a backlash to build - as it has been slowly - against this monstrous Secrecy State that the Imperialists (nee NeoConservatives) have blanketed the US with. We and like minded people MUST win lest we lose all.But in order not to make the same mistakes again, those in the front lines and in the trenches need to understand the mistakes made so long ago and how to avoid them in the future...if we are to have one. The next generation deserves at least that much.
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Comment #87 posted by Ethan Russo MD on February 10, 2004 at 07:50:09 PT
Virgil
Please send me your E-mail addy off-list at erusso montanadsl.net
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Comment #86 posted by goneposthole on February 10, 2004 at 06:12:39 PT
a piece of work
Old Keith Stroup. Evidently, one for the books. Uff da
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Comment #85 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 22:22:06 PT
My Feelings
I know that recently everything seems out of whack. I believe it has been that way. Many of us are scared or angry or disappointed but what can we do about it but keep trying? The concern for where our country is going is a serious concern for all of us. We have been living in a horror story these last 4 years but since 9-11 it has been a living hell. I know I must make people angry because I try so hard to not get upset. I try to rationalize everything. Just call me Spock. It isn't logical to me what is happening and logic is important to me anymore because it's my order in chaos. We'll all get thru this time and I also believe this is a time in History that we won't forget. I think we will need to hang on for a rough ride. It's always the worst right before the storm ends. I really appreciate all of you and want to say thank you.
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Comment #84 posted by Virgil on February 09, 2004 at 20:16:25 PT
Thank you Dr. Russo
I have not seen it yet. Here is the link for what seems to be Saturday's speech- http://www.pot-tv.net/archive/shows/pottvshowse-2464.html It is Dr. Russo on ancient medicines. I cannot find the link to Sunday's speech on the Schedule 1 classification of cannabis. It will be a real grenade to find out what Dr. Russo says is the proper classification of cannabis and individual cannabinoids.
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Comment #83 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 20:12:47 PT
Just One More Thing
That jarred my memory and I can remember a news report on tv about cocaine and it was putting an end to marijuana reform and I wasn't surprised. I think I even wondered back then if MJ was a stepping stone to cocaine or other hard drugs because I really didn't know. That was a long time ago and I can't believe I recalled it.
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Comment #82 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 20:02:53 PT
kapt
It seems from what I read that Cocaine use did in Marijuana reform? That's what worries me now too. Cannabis is a plant and Cocaine is a hard drug and yet Marijuana is a Schedule I Drug and Cocaine is a Schedule II. I hope it doesn't happen again.
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Comment #81 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 19:50:54 PT:
E_J, I said nothing about anyone being 'perfect'
You used the word, not me. I don't expect 'perfection' from humans, nor machines, for that matter, as they are made in Humanity's image, and are therefore just as flawed. Besides, whose yardstick do you use? Which human is such an exemplar that they can be used as a baseline? All heroes have feet of clay...and I'm nobody's idea of even a half-hero. Even Yeshua wanted the 'cup' of death to pass from his hands when he was praying in Gethsamane.You want answers? You want names? Okay, I'll take it this far for you:
http://www.druglibrary.org/special/anderson/highinamerica.htmThe whole thing is online; you can copy the webpages, store them and read it at your leisure. It's the nasty little secret that is never talked about at the reformers 'family reunions'. But unless the matter is faced squarely, the reform movement will be hobbled by a myth and a lie, that we simply cannot afford anymore. The reformers of today deserve the truth. This is what Al Giordano was talking about.And, no, I am certainly not the author. When I first bought that book, I was desperately trying to make sense of what had happened to the movement so long ago. Being a sociologist by training if not trade, I had a terrible itch to find out why things had gone so horribly wrong when I remembered those days when success seemed to be just around the corner. I remembered all the little books and magazines that came out, when it seemed it was only a matter of time, all extolling the benefits of legal cannabis. You probably read the same books. Change really felt like it was in the air. It was, all right, just not the change we were expecting.Because Darkness Fell. The 1960's hating NeoConservative (now nakedly Imperialist) movement's *Fimbulwinter* dropped on America and our civil liberties, freezing them into the nightmare we live in today like rocks into a glacier's wall.When I learned what I did about how close we had come, I was furious. I lost almost everything but my freedom and sanity to the DrugWar because, ultimately, many years ago, a couple of egotistical, irresponsible twits screwed it for us all. Many have lost far, far worse. Innocents have been shot dead over something that wouldn't have happened, had it not been for some of our own people.One last thing: on a program in the late 1990's, DRUG WARS http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/drugs/ the last remaining person of that duo publicly admitted for the first time ever on the program that he had indeed been the culprit. Go to the transcripts section and read for yourself. After you read the online book, you'll know which name to look for.I never ask anyone to take anything I say at face value. You're a researcher, and probably a better one than I am. Many of the regulars here are pretty damn good at that themselves; witness all the interesting links they've come up with, things I've never seen before. And wouldn't know about at ALL if I didn't come here regularly. This 'place' is not only a great sounding board; for me, it is my *lycaeum*. I don't come here just to spout off, but to learn. But not eveything I learn is pleasent. As this is not. See for yourself.But don't blame me if what you learn upsets you. It certainly did me.
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Comment #80 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 19:50:49 PT
Thank You Dr. Russo!
Here they are!Entheogenesis Conference: Dr Ethan Russo on Ancient Medicinal Cannabis Claims (Unfortunately there are some audio problems mid way for about twenty minutes with this file) Dr. Ethan Russo gives the first of two presentations at Entheognesis: Bhang, Ganja and Charas. Ancient Cannabis Claims and their Scientific Rationale http://www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse2464.ram****The Hilary Black Show
Premiere show! Hilary interviews guests cannibinoid expert Dr. Ethan Russo and talks to activist Renee Bojee about her entheobotanical store the Urban Shaman. Live music from B-Funk and the Supa Stars.(Sorry about the technical glitches, we are still working on our live set-up).http://www.pot-tv.net/ram/pottvshowse2458.ram
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Comment #79 posted by Ethan Russo MD on February 09, 2004 at 19:22:43 PT
Virgil
The first of the Entheogenesis lectures and the Hilary Black show are now available at POT-TV.net
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Comment #78 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 18:54:49 PT
sukoi
Thank you for sending the thank you e-mail!
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Comment #77 posted by sukoi on February 09, 2004 at 17:57:00 PT:
FOM
Done!
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Comment #76 posted by mayan on February 09, 2004 at 17:55:35 PT
kap'n...
Thanks for the links. Some things never change, do they? Bush sure clammed up about S&B!
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Comment #75 posted by E_Johnson on February 09, 2004 at 17:54:13 PT
kaptinemo
"It has to do with his comments on the early history of the reform movement. It, without naming names, validates much of what I have been saying for years: the antis couldn't have subjected us to the quarter-century long nightmare we've been experiencing...without help from our own camp shooting us all in the foot, at a critical juncture when victory was almost at hand, over what amounted to a personal disagreement."Well I have been shot pretty badly in both my feet because of certain people and issues I think everyone is well aware of.Standing here on my very painfully shot at feet -- I say -- it's just what comes with human territory, and that's just that.I see human beings as humans not machines aiming for perfection.If you're saying we could have "won" if only we or certain nameless people were perfect -- then I deeply disagree with you.If we were perfect, we wouldn't be humans, we'd be products of the human-squashing machine that all moral perfectionists are trying to build.And there's the rub.It's the wonderfully obstinate diversity of humanity -- our own and that of others -- that keeps society always needing change, always resisting change, and always creating people who work for change.
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Comment #74 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 17:26:18 PT
I Have Electrified Hair
Can you see it? Just kidding. I feel such strange vibrations on the Internet these days. Anger seems to be ruling often and I guess I can understand some of it. I ask these question?***What are we fighting for?***Are we fighting for a cause or an organization?****What is the prize?***When we win what do we get as a prize?
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Comment #73 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 17:16:51 PT:
If my recommendations mean anything
I would strongly suggest that anyone truly interested in drug law reform take a good, long (and hard) look at the link FoM has provided to Al Giordano's site. For there is something there that needs intense scrutiny by all who hope to change the laws to something more rational.It has to do with his comments on the early history of the reform movement. It, without naming names, validates much of what I have been saying for years: the antis couldn't have subjected us to the quarter-century long nightmare we've been experiencing...without help from our own camp shooting us all in the foot, at a critical juncture when victory was almost at hand, over what amounted to a personal disagreement. The curious can do their own research, just as I did...and if they don't have a surge of elevated blood pressure afterwards, they're just not human. We have all suffered largely because of two men. One is still alive. The other committed suicide years ago. Had they not developed a taste for nose candy, become partly deranged by it, and done something out of spite that caused a political embarrassment to the President of the day, cannabis legalization would almost certainly have occured in 1978. But the entire thrust of Giordano's commentary on that particular matter is, that, painful as it may be to go over such things again, the latest generation of activists must be aware of my generation's failure by *some* reform people - who had managed to achieve senstive and higly effective positions as positive agents of change - allow their egos to grow so big they obscured the real prize.We are once again being presented a chance for positive change. State governments can no longer afford the champaigne lifestyle of the DrugWar on a beer budget. Non-violent offenders are being let out of prisons become too expensive to maintain. Cannabis is proving to have new and powerful medical uses every day. The DEA has received a thumbs-down from the GAO for lousy and ineffectual use of taxpayers dollars. The bad news for antis is piling up as it did so long ago.The iron is glowing red from the forge; time to strike now while it's hot.
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Comment #72 posted by goneposthole on February 09, 2004 at 17:10:45 PT
In the words of Bill Murray
I can't remember which movie."I'm a voter, aren't you supposed to lie to me and kiss my butt?"A funny question, and all too true.
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Comment #71 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 17:10:24 PT
sukoi
Thank you for sending him an email thanks. Yes, it would be nice but I am very limited in my ability to expand or change CNews. I do with what I have available.
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Comment #70 posted by sukoi on February 09, 2004 at 17:06:36 PT:
FOM
I understand, but if you get the chance you should do so. It would be great to have both sites linked, wouldn't you agree? I will send Pete Guither an email to thank him for linking your site to his.
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Comment #69 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 17:00:45 PT
sukoi
Oh Ron Bennett put the Kucinich link on CNews for everyone who wanted it. I know he is busy too so I don't want to bother him either.
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Comment #68 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 16:57:46 PT
sukoi
I think it would be a problem. There just isn't enough time for the person who works on CNews to do things like that for us. I only ask for help if CNews breaks. Then I don't hesitate. I wish I knew how.
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Comment #67 posted by sukoi on February 09, 2004 at 16:52:29 PT:
Drug War Rant
FOM, Perhaps you should contact Pete Guither at pete drugwarrant.com for any confirmation that you may need and then contact the person who manages your site for you. I’m sure that it wouldn’t be a problem for a link to the Drug War Rant to be added to your site below the Kucinich one.
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Comment #66 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 16:40:07 PT
sukoi
It is a very informative web site. I don't know why CNews is linked on Drug War Rants but it sure was nice to see. I do have his page on my FTE site. I can't do anything with CNews program because I don't know how to do anything. I am thinking about a new page on my FTE site with current links but I haven't figured out how I will do it yet. It's in an idea stage. I get stuck there often.http://www.freedomtoexhale.com/dp.htm
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Comment #65 posted by sukoi on February 09, 2004 at 16:32:05 PT:
FOM (comment 14)
Hello again! I like the Drug War Rant as well; Pete Guither manages to come up with some very interesting and enlightening stuff. When I first posted his site here, I figured that all of you probably already knew about it since I was/am new to the “movement”. I check it often but just noticed today that Cannabis News was listed in the “Drug Policy Reform Links” but most notably in the “Daily Drug War Reads” section. I’m sure glad that he has two links to Cannabis News (one being a Daily “must” Read) on his site as it means that it reaches more people and could help to change more minds. The more the merrier right? Kudos to you for getting your site connected to his, perhaps you should reciprocate.
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Comment #64 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 15:32:44 PT
Al Giordano Words
Part I: Kerry and Medical Marijuana And now… Chapter One of my promised memo on John Kerry and Drug Policy…It comes at a particularly poignant moment, as the voters of Maine, with a huge turnout, seem to have voted, so far, in a landslide for the two clearly pro-medical marijuana candidates: Kerry, far ahead in first, and Dennis Kucinich, in a very strong third place, together got about 60 percent of the vote…John Kerry and Medical MarijuanaThe strongest card any movement has to influence politicians is to show, concretely, that the voters back our position. In this sense Medical Marijuana - having won multiple referenda all over the United States and by landslide margins - continues to be the drug policy reform movement's electoral battering ram.Politicians and office holders don't like to talk straight about drugs. Anybody who has tried to buttonhole a politician of any major party on drug policy knows what I'm talking about. With very few exceptions, they look at you with dread, "oh no, here comes an issue that can only get me in trouble."I remember, in 1994, interviewing Massachusetts Governor Bill Weld in his corner office for the Boston Phoenix. I used most of that hour to push and prod him, to seek some common sense and common ground, on issues close to drug policy reform: medical marijuana, decriminalization, ending mandatory minimum sentencing, etcetera... I got nowhere. Weld (who later sent a medical marijuana bill back to the legislature to be weakened, and, ironically, later lost the Ambassadorship to Mexico because he had later signed the weakened version) didn't like my questions one bit.Weld went from that interview to a meeting with the Senate President, the House Speaker, and the minority leaders of each chamber. As he entered the Senate President's office, he barked at his Senate Republican Leader, Brian Lees, dressed him down in front of everyone. "You told me Giordano was a good guy! He just came into my office all coked up and told me I have to legalize drugs!"The Speaker of the House (a very humorous guy, Charlie Flaherty, who knew me a little bit better than Weld) quipped. "You're confused, Governor. For Giordano, cocaine would be a sedative!" Everybody laughed and they moved on to other agendas.Click The Link For Complete Article: http://www.bigleftoutside.com/
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Comment #63 posted by Robbie on February 09, 2004 at 15:09:35 PT
About the 04 vote
I encourage everyone who isn't in a state that might go for Bush to vote for a third-party candidate.Because that third-party candidate might win? No. Because the two-party system is bad and getting worse. The ONLY thing that motivates political parties to change is the vote. If we stop voting for these cretins, maybe someone will start to understand that we need more responsive representatives, and more diverse options.
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Comment #62 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 14:10:58 PT
Virgil & All
Here are the delegate counts.http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/scorecard/
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Comment #61 posted by Virgil on February 09, 2004 at 13:53:36 PT
How can the Dims not beat Bush,
I wish that one in ten would vote for the man they think best. For those that broke lose from the herd, this would mean the man they thought best. That is the way to show, there are plenty of people that said there were betters to both men.I cannot see how Bush can win, but some people are going to talk real issues. I have a friend that did not know what BBV was and he did not know about depleted uranium. There should be plenty of bees out there putting their sting in. I hope so. I regard him as a war criminal. I also find Kerry a war criminal and also a drug warrior criminal. So for people like Sam, you should get your sting in and throw Bush out. What is the problem. How can you lose to the worst president ever? I am going to write in Kucinch because I see him as the one that at least meets the non-war criminal standard. What we need is a highturnout. I hope the independents write in who they think best. What we need is direct voting. Under the present system we should do as the Athenians did. I will write in the name I think best. But I certainly encourage you to vote. But who would vote for Bush. Well, only top tax brackets.
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Comment #60 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 13:49:29 PT
kaptinemo and Everyone
Anyone could turn out to be a Bush Lite. It depends on who dangles more money in front of whoever. Money is the enemy and who owes who what. That's why politics aren't really about the best man for the job but just the way the game is played.Thanks goneposthole. I posted the story.OverwhelmSam that's how I feel too.
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Comment #59 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 13:34:16 PT:
FoM, I certainly see your point
But mine was that Kerry could turn out to be Bush Lite, if his feet aren't held to the fire and he understands it's not just the 'king-makers' he is answerable to...as Bush so evidently behaves as if he believes he is, and to no one else.
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Comment #58 posted by OverwhelmSam on February 09, 2004 at 13:32:05 PT:
Vote Logic
I'll vote for whoever garners the Democratic Nomination. I'm not really going to be voting for Kerry, I'm going to be voting against Bush.
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Comment #57 posted by goneposthole on February 09, 2004 at 13:32:01 PT
Maybe this one, FoM
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/next/2001852493_nextdrugs08.html
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Comment #56 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 13:16:15 PT
kaptinemo
I understand what your saying but I am looking at it as it is playing out. My dad was a certified public accountant and he told me to always watch numbers and I always have. What worries me is that those who have been gung ho for Dennis and if Kerry gets the nomination that they will be angry and make it hard for Kerry to win and that will mean 4 more years of Bush and that isn't something I can even think could happen because it scares me so.
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Comment #55 posted by Virgil on February 09, 2004 at 13:10:33 PT
Clinical Cannabis are the words
Clinical Cannabis hereinafter referred to a CC, is rightful medicine. GW will prove that people need the safety of cannabis for everything. The greatest thing that GW could do is to isolate or at least remove THC or breed out THC, so that a cannabinoid replaces aspirin. Actually, I would like the whole plant extract as it keeps me from getting headaches.The whole jig is up and we have to defeat the Schedule One Lie wherever it exists. There is quiet now in the states, but the whole dynamic will change by the end of the year. It would be a complete different election had GW had a launch Sativex. What will cure headache, will prove its own self worthy. We have the chance to expose corruption and show that it is all upside down. CC will win on its own merits. What are the Constitutional limits of federal power? Every state should have always been able to produce what goods it wanted for its own state. Federal hedgemoney should not be allowed to exist, because it tramples on unalienable rights and it exeeds the Constitutional limits placed on the federal government.It was Napoleon that would standardize things. We see standard hole patterns on wheels on cars so as to regulate a better way. Look at the ink cartridges in your ink jet printer. Could we not get by with 10 different standards. Pretty soon we might get it down to 6. Then you would have some competition instead of some profit design. There is no reason a little bit of ink should cost more than $10. But do not worry about CC. Wait until GW has its headache formulation.
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Comment #54 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 13:06:50 PT:
Okay, FoM, how about this
You have a really dirty job that needs to be done. You're a horse person; let's say it's cleaning out a stable. (I know, I did that kind of work, too, briefly.) So, you put out a bid to contractors who could do it for you. The first guy who shows up has callusses on his hands, he can't put three words together without cussing, he doesn't look terribly spiffy, but everybody in your neighborhood trusts him, and says he's honest, won't cheat you, the horses seem to like him and does really good work.The rest of those who show up look like they haven't done a lick of hard work in their lives, they practically reek of cologne, dressed up in all manner of fancy clothes, slick smile and smooth talk...for a really dirty job. Who would you hire? The rough looking guy with gruff manners but who your neighbors swear by as being painfully honest? Or one of these 'perfumed prince' types who've never done anything but BS people all their lives?That's what the Dem so-called 'front runners' are to me. Mr. Kucinich fought against the privatization of his local utilities when all the perfumed prince types wouldn't lift a finger, and saved his community from what much of the rest of the nation underwent. He ain't pretty, he doesn't smell of perfume, and he may scare many with his way of talking. But he gets the job done.
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Comment #53 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 12:51:10 PT
kaptinemo
I don't know what purfumed prince means. Anyone that runs to be president of the U.S. has to live in another world and I don't trust them. When the goal is to win or be the biggest or try to be the best I get really turned off. I don't expect much from them is what I am trying to say. I really like Kerry's charisma but that is because I am a woman I guess.
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Comment #52 posted by Nuevo Mexican on February 09, 2004 at 12:42:27 PT
Correction:16%, not !6% for Dennis...
Sean Penn criticizes ‘comfortable cowards’Sean Penn is continuing to blast President Bush over the war in Iraq, calling the president a “traitor.” And he’s also taking aim at his fellow actors.http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4201707/Why does it seem like the American people are comfortable speaking out against bush, but only a few of the 'celebrity class' speak out? Sean answers the question!Group therapy in America: Mass murderToday this most evocative of slogans is used only to obscure a multitude of sins. The neocons want us to believe that, after our national trauma of 9/11, George W. Bush and America somehow concluded a mystical pact between Fuhrer and Volk:From now on we will fight fuzzily-conceived and sloppily-executed wars of choice in faraway places in utter disregard of prudence, evidence, and accountability.In other words, we live in an age of desperate uncertainty. When we feel uncertain, we go overseas and kill people, even if they had nothing to do with 9/11. And then we feel better. It's a kind of group therapy through mass murder.Peter Lee: '9/11 changed nothing'http://smirkingchimp.com/article.php?sid=14883&mode=nested&order=0&thold=0
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Comment #51 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 12:41:51 PT
Then Who?
No Kerry No Bush then who? Who is running a strong third now? I know it isn't Dennis. I'm not trying to be mean by I haven't totaled who would be third but I'm afraid it could be Edwards and he is against medical marijuana.
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Comment #50 posted by Virgil on February 09, 2004 at 12:32:37 PT
I am glad you get to see I am brilliant again
FoM, what some are saying is that it is torches and pitchfork time. The Spartans have come and overtaken Athens. It is time to storm the Spartans and bring Democracy to Athens. You are asking us Athenians to select between a tall Spartan and a dumb one. Kerry supporters try to spin Kerry as exposing corruption in Government. Well, I will not have any of that. I through the Schedule One Lie at them. The thing to do is attack Kerry for what he is and call up the honest wrongs of the country. ABB to you is NKNB- No Kerry No Bush. If the independents act like Independents they would not send a status quo Spartan out. Kerry and Bush do not meet minimal acceptable requirement and I cannot vote for either. We must attack the treason that rules us. This is where the cannabist could help the country. We see the issue of corruption ever day in a prohibitionist sense. We see what should be Free Cannabis cannot even get part of a $28 billion NIH budget to save us all from the high pill prices or jail us in defiance of our unalienable rights.The whole system is corrupt all the way to the election process. It is time for direct vote needing a majority to win. We have to change the electorial process to direct voting with majority rule and some day proportional representation.The Judge Grey run for Senate is a big deal to the cannabis community. He may lead the Libertarians to a more coherent message. He may transform the image of the Libertarian to a Constitutional Correction instead of a Free the Weed organization. I hope someone can tell us more about Judge Gray's race. If I were putting money into the process with the Logical Conclusion in mind, I would send it to Judge Grey.I despise the Spartans that rule us. It is not democracy until everyone has a vote in a direct election where a majority is required for office. It is all wrong and it is time Athenians once again rule Athenians. No Kerry No Bush. I am an Extremist.
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Comment #49 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 12:27:31 PT:
FoM, the problem is as it has always been
Namely, the very quiet associations between those who, on the surface, seem to be enemies, but actually are working together for similar goals. Goals hostile to the ideals of freedom as espoused by the Founders of this country.The history of the past 150 years, if not longer, has been one of these quiet associations amongst these very wealthy and powerful people.If a pol is not 'amenable' to them, well, our history is littered with results of very handy 'lone nuts' who remove such 'irritants' to the Powers-That-Be.But there are those who know the score. They are outsiders like Mr. Kucinich, who know that these little cliques exist and what they have done. That's why I am so worried about him. He's too honest for the liking of these people who have all kinds of nasty ideas as to what *should* constitute life in America and elsewhere. Dean, Kerry, whatever 'perfumed prince' of the Dem Party (with the above exception of Kucinich) is trotted out as a 'viable candidate' to 'run against' Bush will carry the stamp of approval of these very dangerous men. None such can be trusted. But as to the immediate future? To gain what could be a small victory, despite what I've said? To force Kerry's hand on the issue, just as been done and is being done...by demonstrating that there are plenty of us out there who know the truth behind the DrugWar's hypocrisy, and using the horrific example of Fed tyranny being exercised against patients shoved in the candidate's faces to serve notice that some freedoms will be fought for. Making for a very messy political row that could embarrass Kerry and his handlers.Those forces, despite their control of much that is worth controlling, have always been a microscopically small minority compared with the rest of the world. There are lines that they know they dare not cross, or we would have had a disarmed populace living in bondage long ago. But they are very very close to crossing that line; that's what the PATRIOT Act is REALLY all about. But public outcry against the PATRIOT Act and other unConstitutional measures is growing, and pols can sense that very well indeed. Linking the Federal attacks on sick and dying patients with Federal overreach of power causes some to question their motivations, and seek deeper answers than the surface suggests. That in turn leads to other things the Feds have done, but most people are unaware of. Which leads to more questions.The most dangerous question in the world, for any government, in any language, is the most simplest one: "Why?". Get enough people asking that question, and it leads to places like this, and others we, here, have posted links to. Knowledge is the best weapon against this fostered ignorance and 'dumbing down' the American people have been subjected to. Hungry minds with voracious curiosity, as demonstrated by people spending so much time and money on computers and the 'Net, will act as a catalyst for freedom.In short, keep doing what we're doing...it's having an effect. The 'Net is too big to control completely, and to move against it is to admit to less than savory goals.
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Comment #48 posted by Nuevo Mexican on February 09, 2004 at 12:16:41 PT
Dennis is now at !6%! L.W.Voters will have him....
in the debate, or it would totally discredit what they are trying to do, which is highlight the seriousness of our election process, while the mainstream media makes it a horse race based on popularity and image, not substance and reality.Here's a great article, describing what happens when people actually experience Dennis Kucinich in person. You might think you like him, but once you've met him, you feel you been touched by an angelic, spiritual presence that no one in this race could touch with a ten foot pole.When Kucinich delivered his line about weapons of mass destruction - "Poverty is a weapon of mass destruction! Poor health care is a weapon of mass destruction! Poor schools are weapons of mass destruction!" - she was cheering.And when he left the room, walking inches from her, she nearly gushed."I could have touched the next president of the United States," she said.And then she wondered why she hadn't heard more about Kucinich."How come the press has written him off?" she asked. "I'm very, very impressed."http://www.pressherald.com/news/state/040209undecided.shtml
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Comment #47 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 11:51:02 PT
Another Question
If Kerry is so bad should we be trying to get to Bush to change the laws on Cannabis at least medical? I just don't know. My problem is Bush has done so much that is wrong I find it hard to even think about how we could get him to change his mind even if it hurts our cause.
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Comment #46 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 11:41:22 PT:
For Mayan and others interested
An interesting part of the interview which went right over the heads of ENTIRELY TOO MANY AMERICANS:'Temporary' President quizzed on [Skull and]'Bones'
http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=36903Russert must have known that if the Society is ever mentioned in public, its' members are supposed to stand up and leave the room to prevent further interrogation...but Georgie was on the spot, and couldn't run.Then follow it to another link:
The Boodle Boys
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=16863The two articles explain why so many of us who have watched Kerry since Iran/Contra have no faith in his abilities. Many of S & B's star members got their starts in the 19th century drug trade...and why the term 'Yankee' has a much deeper and uglier meaning to the Chinese, who were the recipients of their mercantilistic ventures. Skull and Bones was in the trade literally from it's inception...and it is fair to say that they benefit both from it being illegal and from the 'Punch-and-Judy' marionette show of the war on (some) Drugs in supposedly 'fighting' it.
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Comment #45 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 11:36:35 PT
Special Report: Marijuana Use On The Rise
Here's an article that some here might like to read.http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1023978&t=Local+News&c=2,1023978
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Comment #44 posted by CorvallisEric on February 09, 2004 at 11:26:56 PT
good AP story - search for "paruresis"
Tom Smith worried he was in for trouble on a Wednesday morning last November, when a supervisor pulled the assembly line worker aside and told him to report to the factory nurse's station.There, with a plastic urine specimen cup in hand, 40 ounces of water sloshing around inside him and the nurse waiting expectantly, Smith says he spent three hours straining to do what most people barely think about. But when the time allotted for the random drug test was finished, the cup was still empty. And Smith was out of a job.
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Comment #43 posted by ekim on February 09, 2004 at 10:29:53 PT
will LWVs let Dennis debate
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/elections/2004/me/Maine Democratic Caucuses
Updated 2/9/04 12:15 PM ET
80% Precincts Reporting declared winner
Candidates Votes %
Sen. John F. Kerry 6,842 45%
Howard Dean 3,960 26%
Rep. Dennis J. Kucinich 2,382 16%
Sen. John Edwards 1,187 8%
Gen. Wesley K. Clark 564 4%
Uncommitted 191 1%
Al Sharpton 26 0%
Other (WI) 6 0%
Rep. Richard A. Gephardt 0 0%
Sen. Joseph I. Lieberman 0 0%
Other 0 0%
NBC TO TELEVISE DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY DEBATE SPONSORED BY LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS OF THE U.S.
January 14, 2004
DEBATE FEBRUARY 22 The League of Women Voters of the United States (LWVUS), a nonpartisan political organization, has announced their sponsorship of a televised live debate among the leading Democratic candidates for President of the United States, on Sunday, February 22, 2004, in Los Angeles.The program will broadcast on KNBC and be provided to NBC stations across the country, as well as MSNBC and Telemundo nationally. In addition, the debate will be made available to all other media, including broadcast and cable networks.To be presented before a live audience at the Museum of Tolerance, the event will be moderated by KNBC News’ Los Angeles anchor Paul Moyer, and will also feature a panel of respected journalists to pose questions of the candidates. Los Angeles cable station LA 36 will provide the media feed to NBC and other outlets live from 5 pm to 6 pm.“The League provides the debate with a unique credibility and assurance of balanced fair play,” said Kay J. Maxwell, president, LWVUS. “It is important that voters have the opportunity to hear from the Democratic presidential candidates vying for the world’s most powerful position,” she added.All major Democratic candidates will be invited to participate, subject to their meeting criteria established by the LWVUS. This is the first Presidential primary debate the League of Women Voters of the United States has sponsored since 1992.# # # #For further information or to arrange press passes, contact:Scott Regberg
310-475-5735
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Comment #42 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 10:06:34 PT
Another Note
I see they have started a medical marijuana thread on Kerry's Board. I hope that people will get to talk on that thread about medical marijuana or even marijuana legalization. I don't post on Kerry's board because it is way off topic for me.
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Comment #41 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 09:20:30 PT
kapt
Thanks I'll check it out. Everytime I do an windows update I have problems. Thank goodness for restore! I really want to use Media Player 9. I listened to Paul Simon's full length song and watched Greendale's Trailer. It seems all the good stuff will need Media Player 9. Fox News! This just in. A musician is going to talk about playing in Kerrys rock band way back. Coming on soon they said.
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Comment #40 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 09:12:11 PT:
FoM, just to be sure
You might want to hit that "Windows Upgrade" selection after you click on the START button, in case there may be some patches available.
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Comment #39 posted by FoM on February 09, 2004 at 09:09:31 PT
Just a Note
I've been looking but so far no news worth posting but I'll keep looking. I think why we aren't seeing news that is important is because of all the political issues going on currently. If Kerry gets the nomination and it turns to a Kerry - Bush race then we will see more news. I don't think Kerry will say more about marijuana until it is not so risky.afterburner, I never downloaded the current real player and I guess I shouldn't now. I have downloaded Media Player 9 for about the third or fourth time because everything I'm interested in seeing or hearing is using the Media Player 9. It seems to be working ok this time but I did a satellite upgrade and that could have been my problem. I like Windows Media 9 compared to Real Player.
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Comment #38 posted by kaptinemo on February 09, 2004 at 08:09:20 PT:
With regards to California's economy
Unless some serious border tightening takes places, or an economic *dis*incentive is produced to cause those who arrive there illegally from drawing on the economic lifeblood of the legal residents of that State, I fear that Goneposthole may be correct. California was once an economic powerhouse; practically a nation on it's own in terms of industrial output. But its' success has, just as in any church with ne'er-do-wells, attracted too many who don't put money in the collection plate, but rationalize to themselves they somehow have a 'right' - despite not being contributing citizens - in taking it out. Or just as bad, make a mess and not clean up after themselves; those national parks they have been growing *la mota* in are becoming miniature Love Canals.California is the economic canary in the mineshaft; what happens there affects the rest of the nation in short order. As it is right now, with those able to leave the State doing so before total finacial collapse New-York-City-late-1970's-style hits with full impact.But the Republican leadership just looooooooves that cheap labor, and Georgie is trying to make it even easier to violate our border security in hopes of securing ethnic votes, so I don't expect it to change before the sands run out of the hourglass; the black ink has already run out of the budget bottle long ago.And the rest of the nation is starting to feel the pinch, as well...I once considered moving to California, many years ago, but now? To use a famous quote: "Never more!"
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Comment #37 posted by afterburner on February 09, 2004 at 08:06:50 PT:
Unrelated
RealPlayer flaws open PCs up to hijackers http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040206.gtrealfeb6/BNStory/Technology/ RealNetworks http://www.real.com/
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Comment #36 posted by afterburner on February 09, 2004 at 07:37:27 PT:
Rainbow Farm Remembered
Rainbow Farm http://www.rainbowfarmcamp.com/ 06 Feb, 2004
"Supports the medical, spiritual, and responsible recreational uses of Marijuana"
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Comment #35 posted by mayan on February 09, 2004 at 03:30:31 PT
unrelated...
But a goodie. Here is a continually updated list of the
three states and 250 cities, towns, and counties that have passed Anti-Patriot Act resolutions, ordinances or ballot initiatives:
http://www.bordc.org/OtherLocalEfforts.htmA recent biggie from ground zero. Very telling...N.Y. City Council Passes Anti-Patriot Act Measure:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13970-2004Feb4.htmlLocal coalition declares victory as Carbondale City Council passes anti-PATRIOT Act resolution(Il):
http://homepage.mac.com/calion/sil/press/release040203.html
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Comment #34 posted by john wayne on February 09, 2004 at 01:41:28 PT
really too bad about Salon
They used to be very supportive of anti-prohibition points of view, remember regular articles from Daniel Forbes criticizing the drug war?Nowadays they are carbon-copy of the corporate press. Salon magazine has lost something like $100 million. I imagine some corporate funder insisted they toe the drug-war line or no more checks.
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Comment #33 posted by mayan on February 08, 2004 at 23:50:50 PT
unrelated...
Here are some drug-war related articles...Police: Population growth linked to rising drug arrests(AZ)
http://www.havasunews.com/HAVASUNEWS/myarticles.asp?P=721213&S=463&PubID=11988Afghans warned they face bleak future unless illegal heroin trade is curbed:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/asia/story.jsp?story=489245Israel ranked third in world in postal drug smuggling:
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/391987.html
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Comment #32 posted by BGreen on February 08, 2004 at 22:15:11 PT
Get Serious, westnyc
Janet only did what she did so Michael wouldn't be the biggest boob in the Jackson family.I'm actually much more fearful of the people who are so morally outraged about a woman's breast. The Europeans now have even more reason to ridicule the police states of amerika.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #31 posted by westnyc on February 08, 2004 at 21:16:35 PT
Kucinich on the "Real Issues"
I live in Michigan and I voted for Kucinich. However, does anyone know if he has any domestic policies that will protect us from Janet's breasts?
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Comment #30 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 21:09:53 PT
Nuevo Mexican
Dennis deserves a very important position in a new administration. He has so much to offer. VP would be nice but that is really a position where you hang around in case the president dies unless you are Chaney! LOL!Seriously though Dennis would be good in many areas. I would trust him to do a good job in whatever position he would get.
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Comment #29 posted by goneposthole on February 08, 2004 at 21:08:51 PT
What economy?
California has only itself to blame for its woes. If you spend more than you earn, what can you expect? 38 billion bucks in the red, you might as well start over. Arnold could donate 4 or 5 hundred million from his savings account to help bail the water from the sinking ship. Plenty of monied entertainers, professional athletes and wealthy business people to tap. They can help pay, too.After all, it is intelligent development of resources that determines wealth (applied knowledge), not money. Money is merely a means of exchange. The border between the US and Mexico was an open border up until 1961. Migrant workers from Mexico have been entering and working in the US for decades. It is not a recent phenomena. Sugar beets and beans needed to be hoed by hand for many years. Migrant workers from Mexico travelled to various states to work those fields. Nothing new. They were free to do so. I have worked along side of them. Ate their food. I was told it was pork, but it could have been raccoon. They love to eat raccoons. It was good food, not Taco Bell.A healthy economy is a thing of the past. We have an overbearing government that overregulates everything and is predatory in nature. It is bound to fall. We are buried in debt with no conceivable chance of unearthing it. Everybody is looking to cash in big to escape the daily grinding of the axe. It can't be done. Everybody must eat. Everybody must have clothing and shelter. Give us this day our daily bread. Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us (911). Lead us not into temptation. George Bush did though. Paybacks are a bitch.
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Comment #28 posted by Nuevo Mexican on February 08, 2004 at 21:01:52 PT
Cannabis News makes ones day!!!!
Thanks FOM! That calls for a toast!Dennis Kucinich gets 15%!!! Ahead of Edwards and Clark, for the second night in a row, as he got 8% last night in Washington, and 6% in New Mexico. You know it won't be mentioned, hopefully it will be brought up by wolf blitzer, the loser. (thanks for the article E.J.! This will ultimately encourage others to vote their heart in future primaries if it looks like we have to sell out (kerry) just to boot bush. I sense the big Mo' for Dennis, the Anti-kerry, whos should pick Dennis for V.P. at the minimum, if he doesn't end up having the 'meet John Doe', word of mouth effect on voters splitting the vote with Kerry first. and going from there, as anything can happen folks,(this being the best case scenario).Watch the Republicans dump alot of money into DJKs campaign coffers (hint, hint), thinking they'll do a Ralph Nader on Kerry with Dennis.Of course Dennis would make bush look like the idiot he 'appears' to be, who knows, yet the media would trash Dennis, so Kerry is the medias best military-background shoe-in for the election, good news for the investor class.So Dennis can shape the debate, shift kerrys priorities, help kerry beat bush, or take front runner status, and make it a horse race with kerry. I know, I know. In my dreams. But who was predicting the seabiscuit scenario?Dennis Kucinich, of course!He's Popeye the Spinach Man! LOL!Kucinich Places Third in Washington
February 8, 2004The Washington state caucus was Saturday. Congressman Kucinich has placed third, ahead of John Edwards, Wesley Clark and Al Sharpton.www.kucinich.usI'd be happy if Kerry came clean on skull and bones, as he has not spared bush thankfully, and could adopt DKs' platform for mass appeal. It could happen! Dean, Clark and Edwards appear to be on the way down, as most voters have gone Kerry by now, and Dennis is getting a closer look.
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Comment #27 posted by ekim on February 08, 2004 at 20:10:59 PT
anyone catch that VN Pol line today whats the diff
Duba kept sayen VN was political and made it seem that now is different. With the War on Cannabis users i can see no reason to not call it Political. Where is the reason for sending in Troops. Where are the weponds. No one means any harm.Kucinich leaders and activists, Just when I was settling in for my first quiet evening in months, the phone rings and we need to recruit petitioners from Michigan to drive down to Indiana tomorrow, Monday, and collect complete signatures on petitions by cong. Dist. to get Dennis on the ballot for May 4. They have about 2,900 signatures, the minimum of legal signatures is 4,500, so we want to turn in at least 6,000.
On such short notice I insisted that anyone who can join us in Indiana tomorrow will be paid $1 per full signature line (first name, initial, last name, street address, city, zip and signature) on the correct petition. If you can go, or know someone who can go, please have them contact these Kucinich coordinators for the following areas of Indiana:
South Bend Kat Scott cell 330-304-8646
Gary, Ind. Michelle, Drew, Benton cell 216-272-5497
Indianapolis Dee 317-354-1011
Evansville Ayela 216-401-9274
Please let me know if you can go, or someone you know (it is great if you can identify folks in Indiana who would be willing to help for the $1 per signature). I don't need to know about Indiana folks, just Michigan folks who want to go tomorrow especially, as they need to be turned in by noon on Tues. probably in Indianapolis.
Bob Alexander, 517-351-0965 until 11:30pm tonight (as I am leaving E. Lansing for Kalamazoo at 6:00am)
ps. Thanks so much for all you did to help Dennis in Michigan. Dennis' 3.2% in Michigan was disappointing, but Kalamazoo/6th Cong. Dist did the best with 6.3%, Grand Rapids/3rd with 4.78%, and Ann Arbor/Ypsi and the Arab Americans/15th Cong. Dist with 4.5%. I will be sending out a summary of comments and recommendations for how we can help Dennis and the Democratic campaign in the fall against Bush later today. We will keep active working together for peace and justice. Bob Alexander
Dear Kucinich supporters,Today we have Kucinich supporters all over Indiana collecting our last remaining signatures needed to be on the ballot in that state. We are so close, and we just have Monday to finish gathering the needed signatures. If you want to help assure your Indiana neighbors the chance to cast their votes for a true progressive voice within the Democratic Party -- if you want to give them a chance to vote for Dennis J. Kucinich -- then please contact one of our Field Signature Coordinators on the ground today in Indiana and travel to Indiana to help them collect signatures. Along with many other volunteers and interns, they are working hard today to assure that Indiana has a voice. Please connect with them today!Call them on their cell phones. The two main coordinators are:Katherine Scott (330) 304-8646
Katie Morris (765) 524-2395With gratitude,Kevin R. Spidel
National Political Director
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Comment #26 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 19:45:48 PT
BGreen
I really wasn't sure how to spell it. LOL! I couldn't believe they did that skit. I miss SNL often and I thought maybe it was common to do something like that but it sure surprised me.Maine Results Here Too:Kerry Is Apparent Winner in Maine CaucusesPublished: February 9, 2004PORTLAND, Me., Feb. 8 — Senator John Kerry won a solid victory in the Maine Democratic caucuses on Sunday, giving him a sweep in the voting this weekend.With about 40 percent of the precincts counted, the party announced, Mr. Kerry, of Massachusetts, had about half of the vote, Howard Dean had about a quarter, and Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio had about 15 percent. Senator John Edwards of North Carolina and Gen. Wesley K. Clark were far behind.Complete Article: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/09/politics/campaign/09MAIN.html
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Comment #25 posted by BGreen on February 08, 2004 at 18:44:22 PT
FoM re: A Phatty and Pink Floyd
I think all TV would be better if we turned off the sound, fired up a phatty and put on Pink Floyds' "Dark Side of the Moon."Who knew that SNL was an educational program?Is it a phattie, phatty, fattie or fatty?I guess it doesn't matter anymore because now it's only a roach. LOLThe Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #24 posted by E_Johnson on February 08, 2004 at 16:53:45 PT
Welllll.....
California has been undergoing a population boom but it hasn't helped our economy. :(
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Comment #23 posted by goneposthole on February 08, 2004 at 16:03:22 PT
People vote with their feet
look at Mexico. The first state to legalize marijuana will have a huge increase in population. Their economy will boom. Then it will be fun to watch the feds squirm, as well they should.
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Comment #22 posted by mayan on February 08, 2004 at 13:31:48 PT
New Group...
Sorry if this has already been posted...New group promotes use of pot for medical use:
http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004/02/08/news/californian/2_7_0421_57_09.txt
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Comment #21 posted by mayan on February 08, 2004 at 13:22:28 PT
Four More Years!!!
Not."While Bush campaigned in Maine, St. Pierre had a journalist friend ask Bush the medical marijuana question, to which the president said he supported states' rights but would rigorously enforce federal laws, St. Pierre said."That is the most absurd statement I think I've ever heard. I'm so glad Bush is for states' rights. Now I know who I'm voting for!Who's to blame for 9/11?
http://www.911citizenswatch.org/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=50&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
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Comment #20 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 11:01:10 PT
EJ I Didn't Know That
I don't go to Salon much anymore. I never thought of why but probably because you don't see marijuana issues now. I just can't imagine anyone supporting Barney Rubbles long lost brother! LOL!
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Comment #19 posted by TroutMask on February 08, 2004 at 10:45:36 PT
Firewall attacks
They simply comb through all IP addresses looking for one that they can get into. Since there are a relatively small number of IP addresses, this is easy to do. It's not just you.Back on topic: Marijuana!:-)-TM
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Comment #18 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 10:44:12 PT
Rainbow
I don't know the answer to your question. Maybe someone who knows can answer. If there is a problem I would like to be made aware of it too. Thanks.
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Comment #17 posted by Rainbow on February 08, 2004 at 10:38:35 PT
Firewall attacks
I am wondering why my Firewall is continaually bombarded with people trying to access my computer. This happens when I am reading this site.Should my conspiracy and big brother flags be a waving? Are they really wasting money tracking and getting into our computers?Go to computer Associates site and get a free firewall. You will be amazed at the attempts to access your computer.Rainbow.Overgrow the government
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Comment #16 posted by E_Johnson on February 08, 2004 at 10:34:05 PT
Salon has become pro-drug war alas
If you look at the editorial coverage of Salon, they have completely stopped criticizing the Drug War, and they are censoring medical marijuana completely from their candidate coverage.Why? Because they are rabidly fanatically pro-Dean and they refuse to make Dean look bad in any way.The editors of Salon now see the marijuana community as a threat to Dean and hence to the salvation of the Universe. Their coverage has completely changed since the campaigns began.
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Comment #15 posted by Truth on February 08, 2004 at 10:25:17 PT
bush
I taped a pretzel to the middle of the tube for the liar's lies. It was pretty funny, he sure is getting defensive.Here's the link to pretzel face:http://homepage.mac.com/webmasterkai/kaicurry/gwbush/dishonestdubya.html
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Comment #14 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 10:20:12 PT
DrugWarRants
I really like this web site. http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/
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Comment #13 posted by Richard Paul Zuckerm on February 08, 2004 at 10:16:20 PT:
ATTEMPTS TO CENSURE CRITICS OF THE GOVERNMENT
After I brought anti-government books into the Highland Park Public Library, (732) 572-2750, including both of Dr. Grinspoon's books, the library Director became snotty, then attempted to restrict my use of the public pay telephone by the implementation of a "policy" that we may only stay on the public pay telephone for up to 3 minutes, even when nobody is waiting for the phone. This "policy" is still in effect, to this day! Three Highland Park policemen came to the library, even though nobody was waiting to use the phone, ordered me "...never to enter that library ever again!", then arrested me for refusal to produce identification, made up a "disorderly conduct" charge, which is the subject of pending litigation, Richard Paul Zuckerman, Plaintiff, vs. Borough of Highland Park, et al., Defendants, Docket Number L-3743-00, which anybody can check out on www.judiciary.state.nj.us, click on civil motions calendar, type in the docket number and my last name, then click on, to see the court date for February 20, 2004, to amend the civil rights complaint to assert FRAUD against the policemen. I would also urge all readers to log on to www.supremecourtus.gov, type in Hiibel in the search, click on, and view the progress of the case of Larry Hiibel, Petitioner, v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, Respondent, the case of which is SCHEDULED FOR ORAL ARGUMENT ON MARCH 22, 2004, AT THE UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT BUILDING, ON THE SINGLE ISSUE OF WHETHER WE ARE REQUIRED TO PRODUCE IDENTIFICATION TO THE POLICE. This issue is a strong civil rights issue! The ACLU, Cato Institute, a homeless organization, and an electronic privacy organization, have submitted friend of the court briefs with the U.S. Supreme Court, on this issue of whether we are required to show identification to cops. We should not be required to show our identification to the police! The I.D. requirement is a remnant of the old failure-to-account-for-yourself laws, which have been struck down! Otherwise the government is sovereign. The Declaration of Independence and a provision in every State Constitution delcares that THE PEOPLE ARE SOVEREIGN AND THE GOVERNMENT IS TO SERVE THE PEOPLE. Government supremacy should be resisted! I intend to be at that oral argument, too! It was reported in The Star-Ledger, Friday, February 6, 2004, page 26, in an article entitled Court limits prosecutors' power to view bank recors, that a panel of the Appellate Division of the Superior Court of New Jersey held that a prosecutor MUST OBTAIN A WARRANT in order to view bank records, under the New Jersey Constitution, even though the United States Constitution does not require a warrant, in the case of State of New Jersey v. Marlene McAllister! This is another fine example of giving more protection under the State Constitution than the federal constitution!! We need to fight for our freedoms under the State Constitutions, people! Not only the federal constitution!The NORML Conference is coming up. I would implore everybody to attend. www.norml.org. The following is a final draft in my anticipated Reply to the opposition by the defense attorneys, for the February 20th, 2004, oral argument, in Courtroom 407, at the Middlesex County Courthouse, 1 J.F.K. Boulevard, Box 964, New Brunswick, N.J., 08903-0964, to be heard by Hon. Nicholas J. Stroumtsos, Jr., J.S.C., (Telephone number of his secretary)(732) 981-3102, (Telephone number of his law clerk)(732) 981-3074:THE MOTION TO AMEND THE COMPLAINT SHOULD BE GRANTED BECAUSE THERE WAS, INDEED, AN ATTEMPT TO ASSERT FRAUD IN THE ORIGINAL COMPLAINT. THIS AMENDMENT MUST RELATE BACK UNDER NEW JERSEY COURT RULE 4:9-3.New Jersey Court Rule 4:9-3, entitled When Amendments Relate Back, requires the amendment to relate back when the claim had been "...attempted to be set forth in the original pleading...". In the case sub judice, I had, indeed, attempted to assert Fraud in the original complaint. On page 5 of the original complaint, which is the Table of Contents of the original complaint, Roman Number VI., I entitled the third cause of action as "Retaliatory prosecution with cover charges." [Bold emphasis added]. On page 38 of the original complaint, I repeat this title of the cause of action. Paragraph 112 of the original complaint, on page 42, asserts Fraud, albeit inartfully:"The allegations that plaintiff had engaged in 'violent,' 'threatening,' and 'abusive' behavior upon refusal to produce identification are a false version of events, which creates a presumtion of malice.
Jocks v. Tavernier, 97 F.Supp.2d 303 (E.D.N.Y. May 17, 2000), headnote 15."Headnote 15, of the Jocks v. Tavernier case, states that Fraud is evidence of malice.
The 2nd Circuit subsequently reversed the trial court decision, on different grounds, though upholding civil liability for reportilying, Jocks v. Tavernier, 316 F.3d 128, 138 (2nd Cir. 2003).My entitlement of the third cause of action in the original complaint with the allegation of "cover charges", along with the allegations of paragraph 42, and the comment in paragraph 108 ("All of these, despite the cover charges of disorderly conduct and 'violent,' 'abusive,' 'threatening' behavior associated with the refusal to produce identification."), reflects plaintiff's attempted assertion of Fraud by the Highland Park Policemen in making up the "disorderly conduct" charge as an attempt to justify the arrest, search, municipal court prosecution, municipal court conviction, and to protect themselves from civil liability.The attempt to plead Fraud was by this plaintiff, who is not an attorney, which requires a liberal reading of the pleadings, e.g., Okacci v. Klein, 270 F.Supp.2d 603, 609 (E.D. Pa. 2003)(Pro se litigants are held to less stringent standards of pleading than trained lawyers).The grounds upon which a trial court may deny a motion to amend a pleading include unfair prejudice, futility, and undue delay. Voilas v. General Motors Corp., 173 F.R.D. 389, 395-396 (D.N.J. Wolfson, United States Magistrate Judge 1997), headnotes 3-10; Otchy v. Elizabeth Bd. of Educ., 325 N.J.Super. 98, 109, 737 A.2d 1151 (App. Div. 1999), headnote 8 ("The touchstone of the relation-back rule is fairness which is found only if the record can support a lack of prejudice."). None of these concerns are prominent in the case sub judice. In the case sub judice, there is no valid reason to deny relation-back to fully assert Fraud.Even if this court considers the Fraud allegations of the proposed amended complaint to be considered a new claim, the time to bring such action has not expired. The cases setting all federal civil rights time limits upon the state personal injury statute of limitations, such as Wilson v. Garcia, 471 U.S. 261 (1985), do not apply to the case sub judice. First of all, the case sub judice is strictly a state constitutional tort action. Second of all, I seriously question the ratio decidendi of Wilson v. Garcia, supra, for the reasons expressed in Wilson v. Garcia, 471 U.S. 283 (Dissenting opinion by Justice O'Connor)("'...To impose one statute of limitations for actions so diverse would be to disregard the unanimous judgments of the states that periods of limitations should vary with the subject matter of the claim.'"). There are no concerns of federalism in the case sub judice which might justify altering the time with which to bring a lawsuit under the New Jersey Constitution. The time to bring a lawsuit against a public officer or public entity under the New Jersey Constitution alleging Fraud should be the same amount of time to bring a common law tort lawsuit alleging Fraud, which is six years. Voilas v. General Motors, 173 F.R.D. 396-397, headnote 11. Since the date of arrest was November 23, 1998, this motion to amend the complaint to assert Fraud is within the six years statute of limitations, and is thus timely.There is no requirement for a Notice of Claim to be filed as a precondition to a lawsuit alleging violation of the New Jersey Constitution. Garlanger v. Verbeke, 223 F.Supp.2d 596, 601-604 (D.N.J. Brotman 2002), headnote 1 and 2; Compare and distinguish Felder v. Casey, 487 U.S. 131 (1988).Since New Jersey Court Rule 4:9 requires the amendment to relate back, this motion to amend should, undoubtedly, be granted.Richard Paul Zuckerman, Box 159, Metuchen, N.J., 08840-0159, (Cell telephone number)(908) 403-6990, www.copvcia.com; www.aclu-nj.org; www.norml.org; www.normlnj.org; etc.
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Comment #12 posted by kaptinemo on February 08, 2004 at 10:12:54 PT:
And to think an issue of such vital importance to
the nation ...gets started because of this.This issue is not just about whether a sick invalid who's been through the ringer medically can have his medicine in peace. This issue will affect the destiny of this nation because it showcases an imbalance of power. Namely, the imbalance of power that the Federal government has enjoyed over the sovereign States since the middle of the last century. An imbalance that has threatened civil liberties through over-centralization of increasingly unaccauntable power. Unaccountable Power exemplified in the entirety of the DrugWar. And lest anyone think this is melodrama, remember all the victims of the DrugWar: http://blogs.salon.com/0002762/stories/2003/08/17/drugWarVictims.htmlAny time an innocent child can be shot dead by overzealous agents of that power, and callous pols can arrogantly justify that deprivation of life 'without due process' as being acceptable in fighting a 'war' to (ahem) 'save' children, then you know things have gone terribly wrong in this country. All brought to you under the aegis of the Federally-instigated War on (Some) Drugs. Behold The Beast.It's long past time that Beast were slain, before it grows any more dangerous than it already is. The Nord case could go down in history as being an important determinant of the degree of freedom remaining to Americans in the new millennium.
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Comment #11 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 10:07:07 PT
One More Question
Why can't they find pay stubs for when Bush was in the National Guard? You get a check when you are in the guard or reserves.
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Comment #10 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 09:45:26 PT
Question
Did anyone see the skit on SNL last night about The Wizard of Oz and Pink Floyd and a Big Fattie (sp)?
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Comment #9 posted by Virgil on February 08, 2004 at 09:35:07 PT
This article focuses on a huge issue
If the media had informed everyone of how the federal government had brought about hedgemoney of CP by overstepping the 10th Amendment, we would not only not have CP, it would be a different and better country.
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Comment #8 posted by kaptinemo on February 08, 2004 at 08:35:45 PT:
Habakkuk's Lament is especially poignant for us
http://www.biblewheel.com/InnerWheels/Psalms/Psalm35.asp for an interesting interpretation...then look in the mirror.
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Comment #7 posted by kaptinemo on February 08, 2004 at 08:30:04 PT:
Mice in his pockets...or gerbils in his shorts?
The man must have a rodentia problem with all this "We" crap. Bound to be worse: lice, fleas, etc. Check his flea collar, but zip on a full Chemturion suit first; you don't want what he evidently has...The World is watching this man, today...and looking at America and asking the same question the prophet Habakkuk did so long ago: "How long, O Lord?"
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Comment #6 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 08:16:28 PT
BGreen
I can't wait to see the polls after Meet The Press. In all seriousness we are not liked by the world. If we get a new president that cares we might be able to be put back in a better standing with the world community. If Bush gets re-elected or appointed I believe that these first four years will seem like a birthday party compared to what we will see.
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Comment #5 posted by BGreen on February 08, 2004 at 08:11:08 PT
He's trying to "Articulate" to the americans
about "nucular" weapons and "terr'sts."The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #4 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 08:01:59 PT
We We We
Who the heck is We that Bush keeps stuttering about?
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Comment #3 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 07:40:00 PT
BGreen
He looks so very little to me. I really can't type how I feel about Bush or I would have to remove my post. When I am angry I don't say much. I barely ever say anything about Bush.
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Comment #2 posted by BGreen on February 08, 2004 at 07:35:22 PT
That Lying "Snake Tongue" Makes Me Sick
I've never seen such a total nitwit as this g.w. bush. Watch his body language. Watch that tongue dart out as he lies.Somebody call an exterminator.The Reverend Bud Green
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Comment #1 posted by FoM on February 08, 2004 at 07:27:07 PT
Just a Note
We are getting reading to watch Meet The Press to see what Bush has to say. I hope others will be watching it too.
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