My profile has the full background story. In short, I tried to give my WH a second chance. All seemed to be going well - he had ended it with OW, said/showed he was committed, we were in MC etc. And then I caught him again. And then I filed for D a week later. I pretty much didn't speak to him after that. I was so hurt and so angry. I still am.

At first, while I was heartbroken, I felt confident in my decision for D. How could I be with someone that treats me like this? Of course there *must* be better things on the horizon.

But as D starts getting closer, I'm having second thoughts. So much is driven by my two small children (under 3 years old). No one else loves them like we (WH & I) do. The idea of giving up, not continuing to fight for our M and our family, doesn't feel right to me. I wonder - did I fight enough? Seems I did a lot. How do you know?

I'm not at all sure he'd be willing to do things I'd need him to do if we tried again. Not sure he even wants to come back. And I'm certainly not sure it's the right thing to do - so much damage has been done; I have so much distrust and he truly may not be the right person for me. But should I even ask? I just wonder if our pride is getting in the way. I do still love him, despite everything. It seems crazy to me that a divorce in the hardest time in a parents life - two babies/toddlers, so much stress - when of course things are challenging - is the right move. I'm really not sure whether I'm doing the right thing.

Any advice, thoughts welcome. I don't expect answers. Just some helpful perspectives would be appreciated.

I think it is a VERY big positive that your kids are too young to remember a time when you were both together. If your H cheats again in a couple of years the D is going to be much, much more traumatic for your kids.

I say take out the paper and make a pro and con list.

Even my IC was taken aback but I told her in my view for my own marriage the fact that I love H does not influence my decisions. My decision is going to come down to whether my H can be healthy and faithful and whether our marriage can recover so that that I experience that love within a satisfying marriage. If not, it is my view that we do not always love people that are good for us.

Posts: 237 | Registered: Apr 2013

Catwoman♀ 1330Member # 1330

Posted: 9:32 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013

As someone who tried very hard and singlehandedly to fix a very broken marriage to a very broken person, here is my opinion:

You haven't done anything that cannot be undone. If at some point he does become the person who truly realizes what he has done and makes the enormous effort to fix himself, you can always remarry.

What you cannot ever get back is the massive time and effort spent on a situation that is never, ever going to get better.

Right now, he is not going to put in time and effort. All the "fighting" in the world is not going to make this any better. I know. I have done it. Your effort is best put into your children and healing you.

Bottom line: if he isn't shoulder-to-shoulder with you in the challenge to save your marriage, end it. It isn't something that cannot be undone in the future.

Cat

FBS: Married 20 years, 2 daughters 27 and 24. Divorced by the grace of GOD.
D-Days: 2/23/93; 10/11/97; 3/5/03
Ex & OW Broke up 12-10
"An erection does not count as personal growth."

Posts: 30700 | Registered: Apr 2003 | From: Massachusetts

Dare2Trust♀ 21183Member # 21183

Posted: 9:48 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013

puzzlepieces,

Can I ask:
Is your WH still involved in an adulterous affair with the OW?
Has your WH expressed any desire to stop the divorce and continue working on the marriage?

IF he's still involved in an affair...and IF he hasn't expressed any true desire to work on the marriage:
I'd continue with the divorce.
You can always date again, and remarry down the road - IF that's how things are meant to work out.
That's my opinion.

I'm so sorry for the continued pain, sadness and turmoil you're going through.
But, it takes TWO hard-working, committed people to make a marriage work.
Good Luck.

I can understand being alone; but I hate being with someone and feeling lonely.

Posts: 6216 | Registered: Oct 2008 | From: Texas

webmistress♀ 29816Member # 29816

Posted: 11:21 PM, June 5th (Wednesday), 2013

Bottom line: if he isn't shoulder-to-shoulder with you in the challenge to save your marriage, end it. It isn't something that cannot be undone in the future.

^^^^^This, exactly. My XH was not even close in the early days after dday. If your H hasn't gone NC or is still seeing OW, you don't have much to work with. I often wonder what would have happened if I hadn't gone ahead with D, and sometimes regret pulling the trigger on it. But it was the right thing to do. If we continue on the path we're on, I have no doubt we'll remarry and be much stronger than we were.

I can't imagine how hard this must be with two little ones. My daughter turned 4 just 6 days after dday

Thanks... what you're all saying makes sense. I realize I can't make the M work alone. And I wouldn't try to. It's got to be two way. I've just shut him out so completely (to protect myself), I wonder if it's worth opening that door back up to see what's there. Probably not; it's so unlikely he would make the effort I'd need him to make. As for whether he's still with OW, I don't know. I don't ask.

I read your profile. Your WS has had plenty if time to turn this around and hasn't. It's not your pride getting in the way of R (or even his), it's the fact that he's still in the A. Some people are so messed up that they are constitutionally incapable of being honest. Your WS is a world class liar he pretended he was in R but turned around and cheated again? Maybe it never ended, either way he continued to play you...

I think your plans for D are perfectly reasonable considering the circumstances.

BW, R last 4 years of marriage out of 15... FINALLY, HAPPILY DIVORCING!

We are in R.

Posts: 698 | Registered: Oct 2012

ineedtoleave♀ 29332Member # 29332

Posted: 8:50 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

(((puzzlepieces)))... Look at it from this point of view... say that you decide to try and work it out. Can you imagine the pain/insecurity/distrust you would have to live with? Possibly to go thru the same thing all over again? I think you're doing the right thing.

BS(me)-52
WH-59
OW-43(married ex-Co-worker)
Married 6 yrs
DD#1: 3/19/10
DD#2: 5/11/10
Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive.

Posts: 977 | Registered: Aug 2010 | From: Arizona

Rebreather♀ 30817Member # 30817

Posted: 11:16 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

Puzzle, when you've shut the door, the way it works is he has to be trying to break that door down to get back in. It isn't up to you to open it up. Does that make sense? When a BS goes dark, a remorseful WW will fight like hell to get you back. If he isn't doing that, don't open the door on your own. It will only lead to pain and misery.

YOU have done plenty. YOU didn't give up. YOU are not the weak link here. Stand tall and be proud of yourself. You gave him a second chance and he crapped all over it. And then what did he do? He ran. That isn't a sign for a positive recovery.

Me BS
Him WH
2 ddays in '07
Rec'd.
"The cure for the pain, is the pain." -Rumi

Posts: 7854 | Registered: Jan 2011

Althea♀ 37765Member # 37765

Posted: 11:25 AM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

Puzzle, when you've shut the door, the way it works is he has to be trying to break that door down to get back in. It isn't up to you to open it up.

^^^^ This.

If he was the man you deserve, he would have been in IC, calling you every day, SHOWING you that he is getting healthy and willing to move heaven and earth to win you back. You deserve nothing less. You and your husband can still be incredible, loving coparents to your children. Sure, it will look different, but they will be loved just as much. Plus, they are guaranteed to have at least one healthy parent, whereas if you spend God knows how long in false R or limbo while married, there is no way for them to. Stay strong. (((puzzle pieces)))

Taking it one day at a time.

Posts: 466 | Registered: Dec 2012

so_lost♀ 7726Member # 7726

Posted: 1:20 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

If you're having second thoughts about D, I'd wait. Don't make any rash decisions especially so soon after D-day.

He definitely needs to cut it off with OW. He will never get out of the fog and see the real beauty in his own marriage and family until NC. (If the OW has a significant other, I'd be sure to let him know what's going on. Might get NC on the spot.)

You'll know when enough is enough. I read a post awhile back about the "aha moment" and it just doesn't sound like you've had yours yet.

Be patient. Your decision will become clearer with time.

D-day April 2005, R.
Me-BS 37
Him-FWH 37, 8 month EA/PA with coworker. Married 2 yrs at the time.
2 kiddos after D-day, Married 11 years.

Posts: 262 | Registered: Jul 2005

sadtoo♀ 2027Member # 2027

Posted: 1:30 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

As someone who tried very hard and singlehandedly to fix a very broken marriage to a very broken person....,

Cat said it best.

Don't confuse your own efforts as his. Obviously your WS is good at appearing to be remorseful when he is still involved in the affair.

You can't fix this on your own If he hasn't asked (no, BEGGED) YOU for another chance at this point, why would you ask HIM for a second chance? That to me seems a little backwards.

Move on. There is life after divorce.

It is what it is, not what we hope it can be.

When another woman takes your husband,
sometimes the best thing you can do for
yourself is to LET HER HAVE him.
OC born 2001
DDay 2002
Divorced 2003
Remarried 2008 (New Guy)

Posts: 8206 | Registered: Aug 2003 | From: Iowa

Faithful w/Love♀ 33128Member # 33128

Posted: 1:47 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

Honey,

If someone does not honor you, THEY DO NOT DESERVE a seat at your table.

As said:
You know that inner voice that speaks to us and we always want to ingore it? Well, that voice is your innerself telling to let go (at least for now). If it is meant to be he will come back. A man that wants to be with a woman WILL DO EVERYTHING IN HIS POWER to be with that woman.

You deserve to be loved, cherished, honored, respected, and treated like the Queen you are.

I don't feel you are making a bad choice, you are making a choice to protect yourself. There comes a time in all of here on SI to really start to love ourselves again and enough to know when to walk away if the other spouse is not giving what they should.

Don't feel bad for second guessing, it is a scary journey. I will be right where you are soon, so you can give me this same speech

Love yourself and I am learnin NEVER to run from those RED Flag and our gut, we stop for a stop sign in a car, why will we not stop for a stop sign in our lifes? We need to just listen and halt for a minute.

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is all you have left"

Posts: 2944 | Registered: Aug 2011

sri624♀ 33956Member # 33956

Posted: 2:44 PM, June 7th (Friday), 2013

my mother gave me some advice that i wish i had taken after dday1. it is very simple...but makes a lot of sense. but it is so hard to do.

"if you want him back, kick his ass to the curb."

and it is true. basically what she was trying to tell me is that my husband at the time was treating me very badly, not remorseful..not fighting for the m. in fact, he was still doing his wayward ways. it was really sad.

it wasnt until 9 months later, when i discovered i was in false r...like you....that i started to understand exactly what she meant. i needed to be willing to end my marriage if there was any chance at saving it. i used to think about the pride stuff too...not letting egos get in the way...and doing everything we could to save the marriage....

but at the end of the day...after that false r...i realized that i was making it too complicated...and that all of the ego, pride...all of that was crap.

bottom line: if he wanted to save the marriage, he would be doing everything humanly possible to save it. period. no in between. he would be willing to do whatever you needed him to do to help you heal.

i laid out my requirements to r after the false r...and he decided to bail. yes. he left home...and continued his behavior. i went 180...and "kicked him to the curb."

eventually, he agreed to the r requirements......but that was after a long, painful journey for me of letting him go. i knew that if he agreed then i could attempt to r with him and still have some dignity and self respect....if he didnt agree to the terms...then i was just that much further in my recovery to move on with my life..and it would have only confirmed for me that he just wasnt worth it.

when you detach, and let them go...you can work on you and discover your value...your worth...and you get stronger and stronger....and become even more convicted in your r requirements.

one thing i have learned after all of this mess, is that a wayward wanting a true r would move "heaven and earth" to get you back.

When I separated I didn't rush to the lawyer and file because I knew I wasn't emotionally ready. I didn't want to be with an unremorseful WH either. I took my time, worked on my healing, and loved on my babies. My WH finally proved through actions that he wanted to save the marriage and our family. I think its normal to have self doubts when it comes to divorce. Divorce can be just as hard as reconciliation sometimes especially if you can't cut off the feelings of love that you still have toward you WS.
And if your WH wanted to save the M, he wouldn't let a closed door stop him.
You have to do what you feel is right in your own situation. And if that means waiting to finalize the D until you feel at peace then that is the right decision for you. If you choose to give WH another chance just make sure you do it with your eyes wide open.

If at this point you still aren't even sure that he wants to come back, then you should push forward with the D.

In Sept 2011 I found myself in almost the same exact position as you. I had not found SI yet (not that it would have mattered because I never listened to anyone anyway).

I questioned myself in the same way that you are doing. I even attributed it to us both being too prideful. Even though in my gut I KNEW that he was still that *same* guy...just as you know that your WH is still that *same* guy. I pushed it aside and I went to him.

We remained married. TBH, it was one of the stupidest decisions that I've ever made in my lifetime. The only saving grace out of it is that I have a very firm grip on who he *is* and I am now able to put him in my rear-view mirror with absolutely no regrets. I gave him a million chances to *make it right* (just since 9/11) and he gave me 3 new OW's. Thanks honey.

I finally found SI in January of 2012. Cat and ReBreather both posted on my early threads. All that I can say to you is that, in hindsight, I really, really wish that I had listened to them because they were right.

My opinion about your situation is that you have fought long and hard enough. Your WH has been sitting on the bench....and now he STILL isn't jumping in to 'help' the team. The fact that you don't even know whether he is still in contact with OW or not just makes me sad for you. If he wanted to stop this D, he would be up on the mountain shouting to the world that he was no longer involved with the OW and he would be making efforts to rights his wrongs.

But he isn't. I'm so sorry.

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive." - Sir Walter Scott

In my effort to be *concise*, I often come off as blunt and harsh. Sorry, don't mean to be offensive.

Posts: 9173 | Registered: Feb 2012 | From: Midwest

MrsDoubtfire♀ 24786Member # 24786

Posted: 2:05 AM, June 8th (Saturday), 2013

Puzzle, when you've shut the door, the way it works is he has to be trying to break that door down to get back in. It isn't up to you to open it up. Does that make sense? When a BS goes dark, a remorseful WW will fight like hell to get you back. If he isn't doing that, don't open the door on your own. It will only lead to pain and misery.

This^^^^^. Unless he is trying to kick open that door then don't go and peek .

"

If you want him back, kick his ass to the curb."

And this....

My D lawyer was the first person I told when I was thinking of R
He was a bit shocked to say the least but then, in an act of immense kindness, told me that it could work if we both put the hard work in and gave me a number for a Christian M counsellor. This was a hard ball D lawyer who told me he was going to screw my FWH into the ground and then nail his ass down too

Nothing is final until you die! You can remarry if he de fogs. But, if he's still with ow then let it go.....for now.

One way to find out where you stand is to outright ask him what his circumstances are. This might give you an answer. But, it could also open you up to be hurt again.

What if you ask him and he says he's moved on with ow? How would that feel?

BS(Me) FWH(Him) DDay 05.09
A went underground. True R 02.10
I won't let another woman reap the benefit of enjoying the man my H has now becomeć

Posts: 1622 | Registered: Jul 2009

FeelingSoMuch♂ 38814Member # 38814

Posted: 9:55 AM, June 8th (Saturday), 2013

Devil's advocate: D can't be undone. If you're not sure, then wait.

I think about D'ing by WW daily now, but I'm waiting because I'm not 100 per cent sure.

Here's what my IC suggested to me. Go to MC -- which we are -- and set up rules. If my WW follows the rules and makes noticeable progress the way I need her to, then that buys us more time. If she does not, then the decision to D becomes easier.

Good luck and stay strong.

Me: BH
Her: WW
Together since 2001. Married since 2007. Found out about her affairs in 2013. Now separated, waiting for divorce paperwork and in a wonderful new relationship. Life is good again.