2015 strategy released

Well, at least there’s still a tiny bit of 2015 left.

The White House apparently finally released the 2015 National Drug Control Strategy on Tuesday, with no fanfare at all. This is a bit of a guess on my part, since there’s been almost no media coverage of the strategy, and no press release this year on the ONDCP website regarding the strategy.

I’ve skimmed it, and, as far as I can tell, not much to see. More of the same kinder, gentler prohibition stuff that we’ve seen in recent years. “Criminal justice reform” essentially meaning “be nicer to people when you imprison them and help them get treatment.”

After a lot of talk about treatment, it’s still a lot of enforcement stuff – maximize spending on drug task forces, etc. – interdiction, cracking down…

There’s the obligatory section about focusing on drugged driving. And even that seems a bit half-hearted. While leading with strong headlines like “Preventing Drugged Driving Must Become a National Priority Equivalent to Preventing Drunk Driving,” they end up admitting that “The study found that marijuana users are more likely to be involved in accidents, but that the increased risk may be due in part because marijuana users are more likely to be in high-risk groups for becoming involved in crashes (e.g., young males).” and also talked about their education efforts including “ONDCP sent more than 50 tweets about drugged driving during a one-hour period and more than 30 national partners joined the chat to learn more about drugged driving.” Exciting stuff.

Interestingly, the subject of marijuana legalization was almost completely ignored. A few minor references in the little snapshot features of citizens who are making a difference, talking about how they had opposed legalization, and this small reference:

Increasingly, marijuana growers are modifying their methods to evade detection by law enforcement and the public. In recent years cultivation operations have moved away from outdoor grows on public lands to indoor grow sites. According to DEA’s Domestic Cannabis Eradication/Suppression Program, the number of plants seized from indoor cultivation operations nationwide increased from 302,080 in 2012 to 396,620 in 2014.130 This shift makes detection more challenging and complicates eradication efforts, particularly in states where the legalization of recreational marijuana or of medical use of marijuana has complicated law enforcement efforts to secure necessary search warrants. To address this growing threat, Federal law enforcement, in coordination with state and local agencies will aggressively deploy resources as efficiently as possible to eradicate indoor marijuana and dismantle the organizations that produce dangerously large quantities.

Yep, that’s their entire discussion about states legalizing marijuana.

You say that as if you believe that your all or nothing bet would have had the proverbial snowball in Hades. There’s just not a single reason to believe that a scheme of all but unfettered re-legalization would have happened by now and there isn’t any need for us to apologize for success.

Less prohibition is better than more prohibition every single day of the year.

You remind me of Motherfucker Jones from the Horrible Bosses movie in the way he negotiates: asking $50,000 for his advice and then, when challenged, quickly settling for a watch.

By focusing on marijuana reform only (and then on the smallest fraction of users; medical patients), reformers were left with little to no wiggle room in negotiations. In the real world of negotiations, you need to have something you’re willing to give up for what you really want. Reformers conceded every argument for comprehensive reform, up front, just for pot. So it should come as no surprise that it has taken this long to get where we are today.

And you suggest that being called an incrementalist, which is exactly what Ethan et. al say they are, is somehow pejorative in nature. Extrapolating that to say I think you’re an appeaser for prohibitionists is simply silly and a knee-jerk reaction to having your position challenged – if not, as you so eloquently and classily said, flinging poo around.

My belief that a broader approach to drug policy reform would have produced better results has merit, and much has been written about the ‘what if’ of it all. I’m not saying the incremental approach hasn’t provided results, just that it wasn’t the best approach.

It used to be that dissenting opinions here on Pete’s couch, at least those argued articulately, were debated – not discarded as snowballs heading to Hades.

Daniel, you say “broader approach”, but to you that seems to mean “all or nothing”. You are complaining because you demand everything on the agenda, right now and anything less is unacceptable. Not only that, you come here and bitch about it, call us names (incrementalist), and generally call us prohibitionist appeasers. Without it ever dawning on your myopic perception that it is WORKING. States are legalizing, people are having thier records expunged, ….and people are being released from JAIL. Fifteen years ago, most of us would hardly believe the first part would happen in our lifetimes.
If you want to complain, fine. Do it with a little class, leave out the name calling and acknowledge the progress we,have made occasionally. Don’t just come in and start flinging poo.

Daniel, it can be a character building excercise to bring new information or opinions to this forum. If it challenges the regulars, be prepared to be flayed alive. This is essentially a cannabis blog and most people are primarily interested in their drug of choice only. Challenge the dominant ideology by all means but don’t expect any niceties in return.

“This is essentially a cannabis blog and most people are primarily interested in their drug of choice only.”

For anyone paying the slightest bit of attention, it should be fairly obvious why cannabis law reform is currently the topic du jour, at least here in the US. Even the Drug Policy Alliance covers cannabis as a topic more than other drugs at the moment. Obviously this is due to the changes in recent years regarding decriminalization/legalization, especially with respect to “recreational’ use starting with states such as Colorado and Washington in 2012 (on the medical side, in 2016 California will mark 20 years of medical use laws). And doesn’t it make sense that based on sheer numbers of cannabis users — relative to heroin users — and the numbers of those arrested for cannabis use that it should be a widely debated topic? I don’t have the numbers at hand, but I can assure you those arrested for cannabis related laws far out paces those arrested for heroin related laws by a substantial margin.

I’ve only been commenting on Pete’s blog for a short time relative to the many others who have been commenting here for much longer. I’ve seen every manner of drug topic discussed. I’ve weighed in on my interest in psychedelics and cannabis primarily (psychedelics being in Schedule I of the CSA is as ridiculous as cannabis being similarly listed IMHO). I have zero interesting in using heroin or opioids. But that doesn’t mean I don’t want to see the laws change with respect to all illicit substances.

You suggest you might be “challenging the regulars” by bring in new information. That’s just bullshit. You’re just being pissy that the drug you’re most interested in isn’t discussed to the level that meets your satisfaction. So here’s a tip — no, a challenge — to you Matt: Stop whining and start a blog of your own illuminating us all to the truths about heroin and heroin overdoses. Or continue to post here and try and be a big boy about it.

Will, actually it’s not bullshit. I don’t think you’ve had the experience I had. I politely and respectfully alerted the readers and contributors of this blog about the FACT that there has never been any evidence whatsoever to underpin the concept of fatal “heroin overdose”. I did so because I abhor the “drug war” and it’s oppression. I don’t use any drug recreationally apart from a twice yearly coffee. What happened? I was regaled with vitriol and aggression from many of the regulars. “Run of the mill internet troll” is one of the nicer things that have been leveled against me. So Will, “pissy”, “whining” and “big boy” are water off a duck’s back. I agree, it would probably serve some purpose to have my own blog, but many of the regulars here would not be interested due to cannabis being the primary drug of interest. I contribute to this forum because I am sick of the “drug war” and I want it to end. I will continue to offer the salient points even if they are occasionally unpopular. If someone can’t offer the facts due to them being unpopular, then it is not a worthwhile forum. I think it is a worthwhile forum for comment regarding everything substance related.

Matt, You are correct, we do not share the same experiences. I do not have extensive knowledge about heroin. Actually, I’d say I’m pretty ignorant about it. That said, I remember reading this article years ago;

I was living in north Texas when Plano, TX was in the news quite a bit when the so-called heroin overdoses were considered “epidemic” in that city. The above linked article corroborates your posts about overdoses solely from heroin being virtually non-existent.

But I stand by my points as to why cannabis related topics are heavily discussed here on Pete’s blog and other drug war blogs/sites. It’s certainly understandable given the rapidly changing cannabis landscape. In many ways, I look forward to the day when cannabis is legalized to the point where it’s hardly news worthy anymore. And I also think it’s silly to complain about what goes on on someone else’s blog. If Drug WarAnt is too cannabis centric, there are other blogs to visit and comment on. Nobody is held hostage here.

I hope you keep commenting as you see fit and on issues you find particularly relevant. I’ve learned a lot from many of the usual suspects that frequently comment here. Personally, I have no expectations of being “accepted” or “liked”. I haven’t been labeled an internet troll yet, but that could come at any time ;). Cheers.

The DEA rarely bothered itself with indoor grows in the past, as the amounts of marijuana that can be grown in a closet are somewhat limited. Closet busts don’t offer the publicity that a big heroin bust does. State, county, and municipal law enforcement officials typically focus on indoor cultivation, while the DEA might pursue an indoor operation only if it was associated with someone they really despised and wanted to eliminate, someone like Peter McWilliams.

The indoor grow focus by the DEA could turn out to be a hollow threat, even though targeting or challenging people’s personal rights to privacy is something agencies like the DEA, NSA, CIA, FBI, DIA…etc., like to do on a continual basis. Many alphabet agencies would enjoy making privacy go away. After all, how can governments repress individuals if they don’t know what people are doing every single second of the day?

The pattern that ensues with the dissolution of a government agency is one of diminished power and fewer duties. Such a decline and fall of a government is a bizarre thing to witness. For example, toward the end of the inquisitions in Europe, the holy bureaucracy was reduced from burning people at the stake to checking window displays in women’s clothing shops to make sure the female mannequins weren’t too provocatively dressed.

One of the things that has happened with indoor grows is they have proven to be relatively safe, and people have gotten much bolder.
After Operation Green Merchant, indoor growers were seriously spooked. We implemented extreme measures to avoid detection. Common wisdom had it that any more than eight or ten HID lights made you stand out, so people limited the amount of power they consumed. The other limiting factor was the Feds decided that they just weren’t interested in plant counts under 100, since that was the number required to trigger mandatory sentencing. I grew 99 plants for I don’t know how long.
Medical changed everything. People figured out the power companies don’t give a sh*t what you’re doing with the power, as long as they get a timely payment on your account. People stopped going to extraordinary lengths to conceal things like used soil and garden waste. Once the gloves came off, people started getting HUGE. Growing in industrial buildings and warehouses. And this spread to non-medial States as people got more confident.
Now huge is the rule, not the exception. It is now worth their while to go after the big indoor guys. I knew this would eventually happen. I used to be a totally average size grower, now I’m a REALLY small fish.

Yep, when people stopped feeling that they needed to steal electricity from the grid or run gas fueled generators = shit got much safer, the related fires were slowly but noticeably reduced..
Imagine how many similar drug war related fires *could be eliminated* – If people weren’t running their own personal chem-labs!

How many fewer “mysterious fires” would we have each year if people weren’t trying to ‘homebrew’ speed or various hallucinogens & whatnot.

From recipes that don’t use the simplest precursors & (relatively) safest processes, Because we’re “protecting people from drugs” – by outlawing what were the more “traditional methods” for cooking up stuff in the woods like it was moonshine, and not worrying as much about dumping the toxic waste-products.
Which, if I’m not mistaken, were decidely less nasty back in the day.IDK, it just seems like yet another case of America being “Dumb on Crime”…

“People stopped going to extraordinary lengths to conceal things like used soil and garden waste.” Since the cannabis plant improves the soil in which it is grown, doesn’t it make sense to reuse that soil in one’s vegetable or flower garden? (I do) And the plant waste can be composted, right? Make even better soil with that.

When you generate as much used soil as I do, your vegetable garden will quickly consume your house! I have supplied my neighbors, friends, and anyone who I can think of with all the soil they could use! I still have at least a truckload on my (well concealed) pile. Want some???

What’s their definition of a “dangerously large quantity” of merrywanna? Is that another new standardized unit of measure they’ve invented? E.g. a plant of merrywanna or a joint of merrywanna? When I got busted in 1989 it was for 2 of the most pathetic plants I’ve seen. Awash in some heavy fertilizer burn, being grown under florescent lights and suffering Freak Brothers plant of cannabis disease. Actually I think that Fat Freddie’s plants had way more foliage.

When I was arraigned the magistrate refused to grant bail because he thought that I was a menace to the community. He actually said that to me with a straight face. 2 plants all but dead from belonging to an incompetent grower. A menace to the community. I mean holy horse shit did I get sucked into a alternate reality or what? The point is that I believe that the magistrate who gave me remand would have called my two “plants of merrywanna” a “dangerously large quantity.” Adherents of the Humpty Dumpty school of sophistry wouldn’t hesitate to do just that.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean- neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master-that’s all.”

But the assistant Commonwealth Attorney was pretty nice to me and only charged me with possession with intent (1-10 years) instead of manufacturing merrywanna. (5-40 years) They probably realized how easy it was going to be for me to prove that I was manufacturing garden mulch, not cannabis.

I don’t get it, why is The ONDCP using a calendar year instead of fiscal year? The Federal FY2015 ended on June 30.

This one belongs in the “Cannabis must be kept illegal or else the criminals will get into REAL mischief” category:

Quoting from the screed referenced above.:

/snip/This shift makes detection more challenging and complicates eradication efforts, particularly in states where the legalization of recreational marijuana or of medical use of marijuana has complicated law enforcement efforts to secure necessary search warrants. To address this growing threat(truncated for the benefit of your mental health)

<blockquote) If you don't have anything bad to say about cannabis then don't say anything at all!
~~ KevKev's mom home schooling his when he was a wee lad.

Off thread. Pete, it is a long time now since I alerted you to the situation surrounding the lie and primary tool of propaganda that is the concept of (fatal) “heroin overdose”. You appeared at the time to be willing to at least discuss it on the site. You then apparently went cold on the idea, that is unless I have missed something. I sent you a couple of emails following up on your inaction and received only excuses. This post is not necessarily a criticism of you, as you have every right to say or not say what you like on your site. I also realise the real thrust of the site is cannabis related. And by the way, if you or anyone else takes umbrage at this last statement, then I would like you or them to prove it. I think it simply comes down to this. You purport to be a warrior for the ending of this disgusting oppression commonly refered to as the “War on Drugs”. You do a great job of hosting the site and this takes a lot of effort and commitment. Why then is it unnacceptable for you to properly broach the fundamental lie that underpins the propaganda component of this “war”? You know via my presentation that there has never been the slightest hint of evidence to corroborate the concept and that there is much evidence indicating it has never existed. What sort of situation exists if an anti “drug war” site won’t discuss this issue? The only and real reason cannabis is the first (“illicit”) drug to be afforded some relief from the oppressive machine is purely because of numbers of users. I am just after some no-strings attached commitment to the cause. Maybe it is too much to ask.

Im just an occasional commenter, but avid reader of this site. It seems to me that once the issue of cannabis re-legalization is resolved, then other substances will then be reevaluated. Changing peoples minds about heroin is impossible until cannabis is dealt with.

Matt, I really don’t think Pete is responsible for any “inaction” on the cause you promote. I just think you have failed to make your point to the satisfaction of many who comment on this site, hence the lack of “no-strings attached commitment”.

Squeezing Pete and the couch to jump on your preferred bandwagon is counter productive to getting your point out. Its counter to getting anything done.

If the fundamental lie that underpins the propaganda component of this “war” is that heroin and other opiates main danger exists because of their illegality you are in the right place.

If the thrust of the effort to dismantle this drug war is not to your liking start your own effort, don’t come in here and try to shit on ours because you think it should be done differently. I used to think you might have a point.

Matt, it was thoroughly discussed in the comments. Your objection was noted and talked about. Stanton Peele also makes the point. I don’t think Pete is obligated to post something that has already been addressed. But be assured, we are concerned with ending prohibition, period. Everybody here is on the same page with that.
As for the continued use of the term “Heroin Overdose”, if it is used here in this forum it is because it is a colloquialism. It’s an understood and accepted element of speech, if inaccurate. I correct the error when I see it committed often now, but getting everybody to abandon the concept is going to be an uphill battle.

Thanks for posting, Matt. I agree that fatal overdoses from heroin alone are extremely unlikely. Where we disagree, perhaps, is the notion that spending our time convincing people of that is a good use of our efforts in trying to end the drug war.

For years, I have said that heroin should be legal and, in fact, given away for free by the government. (I’m a huge fan of heroin maintenance programs.)

I certainly don’t mind having you talk about the non-fatal-overdose characteristics of heroin here. I always enjoy reading what other people have to say and opening my mind to things I haven’t considered. But that doesn’t mean that I have to make a post about it.

The fact is, this is a blog. It’s my blog, and I post about things that interest me at a particular moment in time. Sometimes there are huge things going on in the world of drug policy reform that I completely ignore on this blog – simply because I feel that others are talking about it, or I had a lot to do that week, and feel that I’m already late to the game. Or I just feel like I don’t have anything to say about it. And that’s where the wonderful commenters here bail me out and keep the information going in these threads.

So, if you like, continue to stop by and keep us informed about heroin.

I am glad you replied Pete. I am extremely disappointed you decided against having this subject as a post discussion. I can’t be sure of the reason/s as to why you didn’t, but so be it. The myth/lie of fatal “heroin overdose” is being used with renewed vigour by the oppressors as they sense they are beginning to loose their grip on one drug, cannabis. Fatal “heroin overdose” is quite obviously the elephant in the room regarding drug propaganda. Second in my opinion is the cannabis/schizophrenia lie.

I recall you bringing that up before Matt – I think it was a little “into the weeds” (sorry it was an honest pun – I swear it didn’t hit me till I was already typing)…
*Ahem*, IIRC your explanation was kinda technical or maybe semantic-based?

I agree with your argument – Seems like like most opiate overdoses involve people drinking & drugging, or mixing things of unknown purity and/or strength.

The other simple things to note are people OD’ing on tylenol in pills – really only there to make IV use difficult or impractical, another related side to this is largely unmentioned talcosis (intravascular or pulmonary),

People’s obliviousness to this is what often upsets me when people bitch about opiates. Zohydro is basically the same old hydrocodone without the now typically accompanying acetaminophen = arguably included entirely to prevent IV use of the drug.

Hearing drug warriors wail and moan about the FDA approval of Zohydro pissed me off – beyond words…
Much the same as Oxycontin – people wanting to lynch Purdue Pharma because junkies realized it was fairly easily soluble in water.

Nevermind that the time release formula used in Oxycontin was a Godsend to chronic pain patients = who otherwise often have to deal with the fluctuations of pain relief or lack thereof between doses of what is effectively/technically the same drug oxycodone in Percocet – except for the tylenol and possibly other fillers/binders to prevent IV use!

It wasn’t some new evil created to “hook people”, It was meant to start acting quickly – relieving pain ASAP instead of having to wait & wait and to work for an extended period.
It minimized waiting for the next dose as the previous one weakened noticibly/slowly over the last 1-2 hrs of the “4 to 6 hrs” dosage of the standard stuff… You can only really count on a good two or three hours of effective relief out of every six (or eight) between doses = depending on the prescribed amount/quantity among increasingly timid doctors.

I’m damn sure I’m not going to vote for any politician that wants to make my life more difficult (literally more painful), Because some other people can’t handle taking their meds responsibly… And worse becaause the media just loves a moral panic or folk demon every night of the fraking week!

B.Snow, I am with you. I have compiled a presentation on the truth about Heroin and fatal “heroin overdose” (no evidence exists to corroborate this concept) over the past couple of years. Pete chose not to discuss it when I alerted him of it. Thats fine if not frustrating. I just needed a final decision from him to end the waiting game. At the moment I don’t have any online presence of the current version. Its nothing that hasn’t been done before, it is basically an updated version of the Consumers Report, hazards of addiction (wording from memory). Regarding recreational drug use, what happens to people who die with morphine in their system has nothing to do with purity or adulterants. They get oversedated from a mixture of drugs and lose their airway. There is a clip on youtube showing it graphically as part of a documentary. Google- remi (his name) and heroin overdose. You can hear his companion saying he had been taking a barbituate (name escapes me presently) as well. Thats why only one of them dropped. I will post the details at some stage. Good to talk to someone interested in this topic.

Why would anyone want to promote white powders? TV does it every 20 minutes. Most of it warning of side effects lasting most of the commercial. In-between lawyers commercials suing the white powders. Fat Pharma ain’t fat enough? Cannabis was doing what white powders treat for thousands of years before white powders were invented. The only thing white powders provide to the drug war are statistics of dead people. Then lump cannabis into the mix. Doesn’t matter to the masses if prohibition is the actual cause of death. MSM makes sure of that.

Your idea has been promoted by others sonny. Don’t drool all over the pages. Stanton Peele, for one. Just in case anyone confuses me for someone who actually does give a shit. Cannabis is the Keystone. Reality sets in, as it is. There are no reasons to continue the trillion dollar, 200 DEA offices globally. Once the money is removed. Heroin can go back into doing whatever Ganja can’t. No one should suffer, that’s the whole idea of promoting less harmful substances. The carbon foot print of a lab and paraphernalia to a flower pot and seed.

Everything has always been available. The choices made are that a majority favor Cannabis, because of its versatility. I’ve healed patients rashes and psoriasis with hemp oil and ganja powder, on a hemp gauze poultice. Try that with white powders. Regardless of the adulteration’s or lack of monitoring after abstinence, dead people happen. My blue jeans are the same classification as what killed those people. That amount of bullshit is bound to reach more people.

Ddc, thanks for the input. “Just in case anyone confuses me for someone who actually does give a shit”. You said it. The “couch” is just a metaphor for wider society really. Ever since I started commenting on this site about something other than cannabis, you have been the standout aggressor. So I guess some sort of perverse commendation is appropriate. I commend you on your consistency regarding aggression and hateful attitude to anyone who offers intelligent commentary on a subject other than cannabis. And it continues. Your post is littered with references to “white powder” being responsible for deaths- “The only thing white powders provide to the drug war are statistics of dead people.” I can only assume you are referring to opiates primarily. In which case you would be comprehensively incorrect. And for the record, I never said I was the first to offer the information on “heroin overdose”, I go to pains to emphasise it was apparently first documented popularly in the early seventies. I acknowledge your zealotry regards all things cannabis. So, the point of interest remains valid. Do I allow people like you to hunt me off what is said to be a site dedicated to all drugs and ending “prohibition”. Well, no. I am not perterbed in the slightest by your consistently aggressive attitude. This is an issue obviously far bigger than any one particular drug or its users. People are festering in jail, at the end of a rope or slumped dead tied to a post after being shot. So, Ddc, it is a waste of time being aggressive towards me.

“Just in case anyone confuses me for someone who actually does give a shit”. You said it.

and you repeated it. Only typically without referencing why I said it. You seem to think if you reference yourself, it makes it fact.

The “couch” is just a metaphor for wider society really.

That is your bullshit, not reality. Not the “couch” metaphor. Just an opinion of something that doesn’t have a high priority.

Ever since I started commenting on this site about something other than cannabis,

Wrong again kid. I only oppose your ignorance and arrogance of your ignorance and how you treat others and make shit up. It’s not a high priority and cannabis is, due to what it can do for people. Heroin has its uses, so do baseball bats. Just not a high priority and nothing you say is original. So your arrogance is even false. That means you think you can bully compliance and get support by intimidation. You’re a joke.

you have been the standout aggressor.

Just the facts ma’am. I didn’t post until you insulted several people with your constant whining and accusations. Face it dude, junkies are not a high priority in anyones list. I have nothing against junkies. I like CJ. I don’t like you. That’s my right as an American.

So I guess some sort of perverse commendation is appropriate.

So you guess… is your only argument. You guess about many things, especially thinking you know anyone on this couch. Your motives are warped.

I commend you on your consistency regarding aggression and hateful attitude to anyone who offers intelligent commentary on a subject other than cannabis.

Scratched and broken records sound better. Learn to read punk. I am consistent about you being a jerk. A stupid person who doesn’t realize anyone can read what you feel the urge to comment on. You can make misstatements all day, but blind accusations only work when you censor it from others. My words are still posted and you either can’t read or refuse to read them. Again, I don’t hate intelligent commentary, I read Stanton Peele long ago. Cannabis is a higher priority because it is more useful to more people, asshole. End of comment. Get it straight or be the troll many believe you are.

And it continues.

Because you can’t accept your own ignorance in believing you discovered gravity by falling into the ditch. When you have something to actually say. I might listen. But when you repeat others theories and claim them for your own just to sound intelligent. Wrong place dude. You’re busted.

Your post is littered with references to “white powder” being responsible for deaths- “The only thing white powders provide to the drug war are statistics of dead people.”

Again you show us your ability to cut and paste partial statements, but lie about white powders causing death. Dude they do cause death. Perhaps oxy or the hundreds of other white powders fat pharma sells killing people is not heroin, Or heroin on the streets is adulterated and therefore only deadly because bla bla bla, its still causes death kid. Those deaths become statistics to lump in cannabis for propaganda. Are you denying white powders kill?

“Marijuana is illegal because it makes people rich,” said Sean Kiernan, who turned to marijuana to treat his PTSD after pharmaceuticals failed him.

I can only assume you are referring to opiates primarily.

You can assume all you want, as you seem to do with any subject. Your assumptions are catching up with your false accusations. Careful.

In which case you would be comprehensively incorrect.

You better run right down and tell the undertakers not to bury them then.

And for the record, I never said I was the first to offer the information on “heroin overdose”,

You said it was your presentation… you assume people read.

Pete, it is a long time now since I alerted you to the situation surrounding the lie and primary tool of propaganda that is the concept of (fatal) “heroin overdose”.

You know via my presentation that there has never been the slightest hint of evidence to corroborate the concept and that there is much evidence indicating it has never existed.

I go to pains to emphasise it was apparently first documented popularly in the early seventies.

No mAttress, you insult and act as if this is an important discovery and then admit it is an old theory by others and now you found a calling to inform us by degrading and accusing people of neglecting your priority. When confronted you lash out with typical whines that no one is paying attention. Why don’t you jump up and down in the nearest mud puddle to fit with your tantrums?

I acknowledge your zealotry regards all things cannabis.

You can’t even acknowledge your own mindset chump. I have no zealotry, the plant speaks for itself. White powders kill. On purpose as with lethal injections or by accident from inconsistent dosages or adulterations whatever, the results are still dead people. Cannabis doesn’t need propaganda as you seem to think. I post mostly cannabis because there is so much to post. No where in the known universe will your fat pharma be a better choice or higher priority. No one wants it except for pain and Ganja has been proven better in many cases. You and the drug worriers are zealots because you have nothing of substance to stand on. I do. From my sour diesel in hermetically sealed bags delivered and paid with a CC to my hemp blue jeans. All potential profit takers from your masters at fat pharm inc.

So, the point of interest remains valid. Do I allow people like you to hunt me off what is said to be a site dedicated to all drugs and ending “prohibition”.

Kid, you take yourself too fucking seriously as if you mean something or have influence or authority. You’re a loud mouth punk to me. You don’t allow shit or can you censor opposition, so you make shit up forgetting others can read what you feel inclined to explain. White powders kill. Maybe they can be made so they don’t kill but as of now, they kill. Cannabis doesn’t. White powders have one use, cannabis has thousands. Just no comparison except to vested ignorance. Same as rehabs profits on lies or plea bargain rehabs. You are selling concepts others have discovered long ago. That’s theft boy.

Well, no. I am not perterbed in the slightest by your consistently aggressive attitude.

I’ll have to try harder in the future. I think you’re fibbing. Your emotions are pouring out all over your post. You are the first to insult every time you come and then cry when confronted, every time you come. We’re playing basketball and you want to show us your goldfish as if it had any thing to do with drug policy. People are dead and you are screaming at their parents telling them they didn’t really die? Or that they didn’t die of what they injected into their veins? Heroin can’t kill you tell the mother of the dead child as if they are supposed to invite you to dinner for your gracious wisdom. Gessh, get a life dude.

This is an issue obviously far bigger than any one particular drug or its users.

To you it sounds like it is. Only you sport.

People are festering in jail, at the end of a rope or slumped dead tied to a post after being shot.

Yes that is what we fight against skippy. You muddy the waters that only aids the liars and gossip.

A little late to the trigger here but anyway, Matt I think part of the issue is that ‘well, most ODs are not just heroin alone’** just isn’t an effective reform strategy. That goes so hard against peoples belief that you’re just as bad as the guy trying to explain ‘well most pedophiles never actually molest children’, another technically true thing people will think you’re crazy for saying. Heroin is also pharmacologically no different than any other full agonist opioid, and millions and millions of people take their Vicodin and Percocet without issue; but pointing out their hypocrisy of calling heroin the most horrible thing ever while they swill vodka, smoke cigarettes, and pop the percs their dentist gave them for a toothache just doesn’t work.
Heroin/opiate policy reform actually is my main focus, and I can turn the ‘my kid died from an OD, we must kill all dealers!’ people into supporters of heroin legalization (with tight regulation). If you want to successfully lobby against prohibition of the “hard” drugs, you embrace the notion that they’re ‘extremely dangerous’. That gives people relief that you’re not some irresponsible addict and are ‘in’ on the danger like they are. You’re then in a better position to segue into facts regarding how prohibition actually increases the danger by funding violent gangs and making their children more likely to die, not less. The ‘of course heroin/oxy are dangerous, but what scenario do you want for your kid: criminal record, risk of violence, risk of OD, loss of education/career prospects, too stigmatized to ask for help; or non-judgemental access to treatment, effective education, without being caged like a monster’ argument wins every time (but it’s a far more sensitive, detailed, and nuanced discussion than my summary suggests).
tl;dr : You’re alienating audiences by using substance danger overstatement as an argument. It’s a 3rd-tier argument, once people already doubt the value of prohibition and are curious about the details of a legalization regime.

** – It’s not impossible and does sometimes happen, mostly when someone has no tolerance. Other opiates have even higher risks.

Jon, I think your strategy is mispaced and actually dangerous. Firstly (“well, most ODs are not just heroin alone”), is not what I am saying. I have seen no evidence whatsoever that ANYONE has ever died from a “heroin overdose”. There continues to be no evidence. If there was evidence it would be there to see, particularly on the internet. You find me a toxicology report that shows levels of morphine considerably higher than someone in paliative care for someone who has died with no medical cause present. Then you keep finding them by the hundreds and then the thousands and email them to me. I’m confident you wont find one. I can’t. No study I have seen has presented one or the findings of one. The DEA wouldn’t be able to supply them. They don’t seem to exist. For whatever reason, you apparently believe in the concept of fatal “heroin overdose” also, or are unwilling to consider the evidence. Or you have just never been shown the evidence and reasoning. I dont know. Regardless, your rationale of not telling the truth about fatal “heroin overdose” condemns thousands of people that may not get on a heroin prescription system (if it did exist in their country) to a life of hell. Your stategy is actually harmful and counterproductive. Someone has to tell the truth and start chipping away at the propaganda. Nathan Edelman et al keep talking about “overdose” (like you) without a shred of evidence. Either he doesnt know the truth, or knows the truth and wont say it for whatever reason. I don’t know. When challenged, they will never say, in my experience. Your last sentence has no validity whatsoever. It is one of the classic misapprehensions. “Hard drugs”??? The “hard” drugs are tobacco and alcohol. The act of smoking cannabis is extremely detrimental for the health. In terms of health, cannabis could rightfully be called a “hard” drug when smoked, just like oregano or toilet paper. Just wanted to illustrate the farce of the “hard” drug concept. Incidently, the straight talking is not intended to alienate you or anyone else, it is just that I am passionate about this.

Dear DdC, after all the bullying, vitriol and aggression you have directed against me, why would you do this to yourself? I thought you hated me? Did you not read the autopsy report in full? Its available on Autopsyfiles.org. What did Janis apparently do on her way home from recording? Dropped into Barney’s Beanery and “…took about two drinks”. The result? I will quote: “Blood: Ethanol .11 percent”. So a “heroin overdose”? Not in any way, shape or form. Low morphine with alcohol. Your classic mixed-drug episode/toxicity. You have to read further than the official findings, you need to look at the toxicology. In this case and consistently for others involving heroin (morphine), they are incorrect and misleading.

Well DdC, you have just put on record your true agenda. Contributing to a site such as this, purporting to be against the “drug war”, yet you choose to act actually as a propagandist FOR the “drug war” in respect to opiates. Congratulations.

Aw shucks, twas nothing. Glad to do it. The coroner performing the autopsy, what does he know when we have a legit excerpter right here. Who steals his info from Stanton Peele. Like I said punk. I had no problem when Stanton published his theory. I had a problem with your rude accusations. Now if the coroner established incorrect evaluations, then it is he whom who should whine at. After all, the old tracks determined she probably abstained and like many out of rehab. Took a dose she used before and it was too much. Sorry but two drinks don’t splain it. Maybe she had eggs for breakfast. Now there would be something to go on. The site came up two minutes after you claim you’ve spent years looking for. Of coarse it’s the Coroner lying. After all he probably hates pot like most of them. Of coarse the universe has to now admit they were lying because your unsubstantiated stolen theory is correct. Listen kid. If pure heroin doesn’t kill, fine. But you won’t find pure heroin on the streets. So we end up with dead people. Still not anywhere close to the versatility of Ganja and Hemp. So face it. Your ignorance has been proven. Your accusations are lame and your insults are why I have a problem with you. Not Peele’s theory. As for your whining. Take it up with the OFFICE OF CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER – CORONER, HALL OF JUSTICE, LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA.

DdC, I have enjoyed our little exchange over the last couple of days. That sounded dangerously like an admission-“If pure heroin doesn’t kill, fine” (DdC, 2015). But you still try to wriggle out of it. No body of evidence proving consistent and widespread presence of dangerous adulterants in heroin in Australia. So you’ve drawn another blank. No evidence of people walking out of rehab, scoring, using only opiates and dying, with morphine concentrations above therapeutic levels at autopsy (decreased tolerance). Sorry, another blank. So no matter how hard you try to cling to the life boat of fatal “heroin overdose”, you’re always going to lose your grip and sink struggling to the bottom of the ocean. So with that very average analogy, I must conclude the conversation for now.

and from the anatomic findings and pertinent history I ascribe the death to:drum roll please…

ACUTE HEROIN – MORPHINE INTOXICATION

DUE TO: INJECTION OF OVERDOSE

Jigs up troll.

I’ll leave this treat you spewed for others.

The act of smoking cannabis is extremely detrimental for the health.Matt going down in flames

Now run along kid, go dig up some references. Some that you didn’t write before. Or steal from others. Not a nonexistent pure heroin. That’s been established, not by you. White powders are taking lives. Mostly due to prohibition. Still used to demonize Cannabis lumping it all together. Cannabis doesn’t take lives period. Not smoking or eating. To deny this is the words of a wingnut drug worrier. To make the accusation it does harm, is pure conjecture from a kid pouting. Don’t let the door slam you in the ass on the way out…

Okay DdC,
The coroner didn’t attribute her death to anything other than heroin alone.
That makes it so on paper – It doesn’t necessarily make it so in reality (or in totallity)…

The getting down to the nuts & bolts here = We’re talking about CNS depression leading to death (mostly from slowed resperation or possibly total cessation of breathing).

I’m pretty certain that there’s a legitimate argument for the idea that – as long as you monitor breathing (for CNS depression) you can give people nearly any amount of morphine – that’s a matter of extremely careful titration.

In a clinical setting, I believe that there’s technically/literally no upper limit on how much morphine is lethal = as in no “universal” LD-50 or LD-100.

That’s where we get into semantics with this… But I will note that – to my knowledge even small amounts of alcohol (as little as 1-2 drinks, or 1 dose of cough syrup) CAN cause a severe lowering of the threshold for lethal CNS depression.

We’re getting down to splitting hairs guys, Matt could be “correct” in a narrower sense than he’s argued here recently.
(IIRC this last came up amongst a detailed discussion on the non-existence of an LD-50/LD-100 for cannabis – many months or maybe even longer – more than year ago?)
If we want to debate this stuff we need to be precise = details matter.

Still DdC, you have a point in that this is so nuanced an argument that the general public may not get it. Or not except it = particularly if they have had someone they know die from “an overdose” (whatever it was = aka losely defined).

And that’s why you’re not going to hear Ethan talking about this shit – the public isn’t there yet – and may never get there…
As an example – his position on driving with cannabis in one’s system has changed over the last – I’m thinking five years?

It was closer to – “you should never drive” (with cannabis in your system), But then we got to the “per se” legislation and States w/ ‘5 nanograms per milliliter’ or whatever, and he changed his standard discussion/debate on the matter to better embrace common sense.

That’s politics, and the reality of changing or “evolving” opinions on things…
Sorry Matt – But “reality” simply isn’t ready for your argument just yet… ✌

Okay B. Snow,
The coroner didn’t attribute her death to anything other than heroin alone. That makes it so on paper – It doesn’t necessarily make it so in reality (or in totallity)…

Here we go. There is no argument that pure heroin isn’t the cause of overdose. The fact it doesn’t happen on the streets is why people are dying. Adulteration’s, different dosages, abstinence, Fentanyl, booze and a million other things outside of clinical monitoring and case history with consistent product. So someone has a grasp of the obvious or a glimpse of reality. Gets all wingnut over it. Fun to tease, I don’t take them serious.

If pure heroin was doled out while prohibition existed. It would be cut to make more money. Back to the drawing board. So Stanton Peele and others have made the pure heroin claim. Under maintenance it could perhaps work, if the user wanted it to. Still leaves the streets and death counts that are always name dropping cannabis along side of. So it is not a priority to lump into cannabis that has no relationship to man made powders. White powders vs nature. Thats all I’m saying about it.

Argue amougst yourself. Diversions are the problem, not solution. Not dealing with reality is the problem. Not hypotheticals in labs that can’t pan out on the streets under prohibition. That is primarily held up by cannabis and hemp. The drug war is the diversion from corporate competition and profits, along with profits on prohibition maintenance. Why go on and on about it. My problem is with anyone who claims Ganja toking is unhealthy. Adios ignorant. I read the first paragraph. You probably have some interesting things to say, but say it to someone who gives a shit. Not me.

Prenatal exposure to recreational drugs is the latest bugaboo that wants to include marijuana in the list of villains. Yet, we’re not likely to hear from prohibitionists about new Australian research that contradicts prohibition’s standard model. It’s all gummy bears:

19-NOV-2015 — Children exposed to marijuana in the womb show a significant improvement in their ability to track moving objects at age four, according to new vision research. But researchers are warning that the results do not mean marijuana has a beneficial effect on foetal development.

The study from the University of Waterloo, University of Aukland and Brown University appears today in the journal Scientific Reports.

“We were surprised with this initial finding,” said Ben Thompson, a professor in Waterloo’s School of Optometry and Vision Science in the Faculty of Science. “It shows that marijuana and alcohol can have quite an impact on a fundamental aspect of the visual processing happening in our brains. But despite the apparently beneficial impact of marijuana on the development of the brain’s visual system, other research shows its use can actually impair the brain development of unborn children.”

They are unable to give out good news about cannabis without throwing in a couple of lies as well. Recent research in, I believe Jamaica, found that children whose mothers toked were more developed and socialized better than kids of non-tokers. Those studies directly contradict the lies here.

The number of cannabis industry conferences seems to grow exponentially every year, but the Reform conference remains the premiere get-together for global policy makers and industry shakers. This year’s shindig is no exception. Today’s opening session at the Crystal Gateway Marriott hotel in Arlington, Virginia, was salted with officials from Jamaica, Uruguay, Mexico, and a gleeful contingent from Canada.

As regards cannabis, the “drug war” has another undesirable consequence of its oppression. Because people employ indoor cultivation as a means of reducing detection and prosecution, electricity is used for doing something that should only be done under the sun. Electricity predominately comes from nuclear and coal sources in the US for example as far as I am aware. So, the “drug war” is also detrimental to the environment. Taken one step further, electricity companies would presumably not be in favour of drug law liberalisation because it would inevitably result in decreased power usage.

” One criminal justice “enhancement” contained in that bill (ANTI-TERRORISM AND EFFECTIVE DEATH PENALTY ACT OF 1996….thanks Bill and Newt, you fucked us good with that one) was a provision mandating the deportation of foreign nationals (including legal residents) who commit “aggravated felonies” or crimes of “moral turpitude.”

“Narcotics offenses fall into that vague and inclusive category, including unauthorized use of marijuana…….
Rodriguez remains a non-citizen, and his application for naturalization has been repeatedly rebuffed because of what the federal government insists is his “bad moral character” – supposedly demonstrated by his juvenile offense record. Once again, the federal government didn’t regard him as a man of defective character when it inducted him into the Marines.”