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Is it a typo, or is beef really OK for Warriors? The avoid list only shows beef parts, not the meat itself...which would mean the meat is neutral. It's an avoid for A's and AB's, and they're the only ones who can be Warriors.

It's not clear that beef is not a toxin. Veal, on the other hand, is clearly not on the toxin list. Make of that what you will.

Right. Actually, my question came up over something Madame Butterfly pointed out over on the GTD board a few weeks ago. We were noticing how the "foods tested" list was worded, and based on that, it did seem as though beef was a neutral. It does not seem to make sense, though; I'm still scratching my head over it. I suppose it would be useful to know, if I ever had to choose between beef and chicken.

I guess I am a bit confused by this. On page 254 of the GT book it says

"There are no recommended red meats."

I see this as very clear. Red meat is not a choice for warriors.

It says the same thing on the following page 255 for poultry.

Not being recommended is not the same as being a toxin, it means that they are not superfoods (which are recommended). Neutrals are neutrals. If I were a Warrior, I would avoid beef as a toxin but might consider using veal on rare occasion based on how I have read the book and lists. Since I'm not a Warrior it is moot for me, the Warriors have to decide for themselves.

I won't split hairs with anyone about this. Is there anywhere else that those words are in any diet except for beef and poultry in the Warrior diet? I don't think so.

Everyone else has at least one superfood in each category, so there is no applicable logic. I will also note that Warriors frequency for Red Meats is 0-1, and Poulty 0-2 per week. I would think this would indicate that there are indeed neutrals that can be used. That's just my take. Turkey and veal look like suspects from here.

Not being recommended is not the same as being a toxin, it means that they are not superfoods (which are recommended). Neutrals are neutrals. If I were a Warrior, I would avoid beef as a toxin but might consider using veal on rare occasion based on how I have read the book and lists. Since I'm not a Warrior it is moot for me, the Warriors have to decide for themselves.

Page 166 reads, Regarding Warriors "Red meats and all sources of trans fats should be avoided. They cause arterial inflammation, thicken the blood and accelerate the aging process in Warriors". Beef is listed as a toxin, veal to me is a form of beef/red meat. I know for me meat causes bad constipation evidence of a sluggish metabolism. Even turkey will bother me as an occassional meal.

In nutrition, "red meat" is synonymous with "mammal meat." The term is often considered misleading, as not all mammal meat appears red, and some non-mammal meat can be red. So as far as I know veal is red meat it is mammal meat.

MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

Warriors tend to be fast acetylators, they typically have trouble cleaning out certain environmental toxins from their bodies. Red meat contains Toxins that wreak havoc in the body if they aren't filtered out; instead of removing them, Warriors convert these by-products into carcinogens, which can bind to DNA and end up causing stomach, colon, or breast cancer.

it is very clear....

''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ESTJThe harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

From my standpoint and the experience that I have had with beef for over a decade, there is no way under the sun I would consider it anything but an AVOID, period! People can do whatever they want with the stuff, it is off my list. In fact, if there were a POISON list, beef would be listed there for me. Beef tongue, beef heads, beef legs, beef broth, beef ears, beef whatever - NEVER!

Sometimes I wonder how many ways Peter has to say something to get it through our thick skulls?

I recently heard a report on NPR. They took smokers and played radio programs to them that were full of static. They heard both positive things about smoking and negative things about smoking, on the program. When the positive stuff was played the smokers fixed the static, when the negative stuff was played the smokers didn't fix the static. So they heard what they wanted to hear.. and kept on smoking thinking it was good for them. Now we all know the truth but people often only hear what they want.

Spring I am with you on this one.. beef in any form is a toxic avoid, call it what you want, just don't eat it.

I guess if you're a Nomad it is hard to understand what beef does to a Warriors body. It has always bothered me. Good Lord get the enema bag.

MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

there is no end to the dreaming; my dream is that the proof reading could be re-done and adjustments made before the next edition of the book.

My thoughts exactly. Clear communication is so powerful.

I think some of the other responses are interesting, though. Dottie1, I hope you're not saying you think I have a thick skull. This isn't about wishing I could eat red meat; I'm feeling so much better without it!

Oh no I don't want to be misunderstood. I think in general humans/mankind seems to be thick in the head, we hear things how we want them myself included. I did this a while ago with wheat and the white lines on my prints. I asked in all sorts of ways so I could get permission to eat some bread.. something anything. I knew the answer but some how I didn't want to hear it. So it was merely a generalization, not directed at anyone in particular. I even include myself in that generalization.

MIFHI

"Do not try to satisfy your vanity by teaching a great many things. Awaken people's curiosity. It is enough to open minds; do not overload them." Anatole France

"Healthy people have the least overt symptoms from eating avoid foods." Dr. D'Adamo

I did this a while ago with wheat and the white lines on my prints. I asked in all sorts of ways so I could get permission to eat some bread.. something anything.

Dottie, I have eaten very little bread in the last twenty years, but for some reason on this diet I get this urge for "something, anything" that is like bread. Right now I am using amaranth pancakes made sort of by Ribbit's recipe that taste absolutely delicious to me! They are moist and sort of floppy so it is hard to toast them in a regular toaster, but they are still delicious just heated up! I must be the only person who hasn't made flax bread yet, but I intend to soon.

That is your opinion Lola... I think they'd like to hear it from Dr. D.

for those who want to hear it from Dr D.....

Quoted Text

Dr DRed meat contains Toxins that wreak havoc in the body if they aren't filtered out; instead of removing them, Warriors convert these by-products into carcinogens, which can bind to DNA and end up causing stomach, colon, or breast cancer.

no MF it is not 'my opinion' as you can well see....

''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ESTJThe harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

precisely a warrior asking if he could have a piece of steak for his BD!!!Dr D advised him to get salmon instead!!!he did not say, ''yeah, why not, your BD is once a year right??pop some deflect!''no, his answer was that quoted above!

''Just follow the book, don't look for magic fixes to get you off the hook. Do the work.'' Dr.D.'98DNA mt/Haplo H; Y-chrom/J2(M172);ESTJThe harder you are on yourself, the easier life will be on you!

Whew!But as Lloyd pointed out, Warriors are allowed to have red meat "0-1 times weekly"...that leaves a little wiggle room for individual differences.

the only 'red' meat that I believe is available to me where I live is turkey thigh. There is no way in a million years that I would interprete that as being beef; it is so obvious that is why it was not mentioned in the Avoid list.It would be nice to have everything spelled out really carefully, but we also need to operate using common sense.I have been guilty of getting obsessed with the fine print on several issues in the past, (is this a genotype/blood type thing?) but am trying to let go a bit now.

there is no way under the sun I would consider it anything but an AVOID, period! People can do whatever they want with the stuff, it is off my list. In fact, if there were a POISON list, beef would be listed there for me. Beef tongue, beef heads, beef legs, beef broth, beef ears, beef whatever - NEVER!

I'm sorry, I think I must be having a breakdown. I just had an image of that scene in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where the warriors in the castle catapult that cow over the wall onto the invading army. My apologies, Spring.

I'm sorry, I think I must be having a breakdown. I just had an image of that scene in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where the warriors in the castle catapult that cow over the wall onto the invading army. My apologies, Spring.

No apologies necessary at all, Franklina! I get really bent out of shape about beef because it has done terrible things to my poor body that I won't forget as long as I live! It may as well have crossbones on it for my part. I used to love beef as much as the next person, but it has been a very long time since I ate it for the last time.

I'm so sorry to hear about your experiences with beef, Spring. About a year ago, I was privileged to attend a lecture given by Howard Lyman. I'm sure many on this board know who he is, but for those who don't, he is a former Montana cattle rancher who credits a vegan diet with his recovery from a debilitating spinal tumor. He got in trouble with the Texas beef industry (I think) some years back for talking about it on Oprah. Not only is his story inspiring, but he's quite an entertainer as well.

I was caught off guard by the strong reactions to this thread, some of which didn't seem to have anything to do with the original question (which still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction). Guess I'm not used to being around so many Warriors...there were only two of us on the GTD board before my membership expired.

Everyone every time they eat,chooses what they put in their mouths. If you look at your food as a choice, it's much easier to resist (if that is your wish)the sky will not fall if you choose to eat beef. That being said, since I started the diet 3 years ago I have not choosen to eat beef because I choose to feel good after I eat, not sluggish and hurt for three days.

“Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood” - Ralph Waldo Emerson

I was caught off guard by the strong reactions to this thread, some of which didn't seem to have anything to do with the original question (which still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction).

Only Dr. D can answer that question. It has to do with the layout of the text and errata, so I would expect an eventual clarification if you are patient. I cannot anticipate a time frame - it will happen when it happens.

Also note that Rabbit, Bear, Squirrel and Kangaroo all appear to be neutrals as they are listed as superfoods or avoids for other types. They are all red meat and there is no argument that they are not beef.

Lloyd, when I first started reading the last paragraph of your post, and not reading closely enough, I thought you were about to quote some posters on this board!!! What a shock to see you were talking about superfoods!

Only Dr. D can answer that question. It has to do with the layout of the text and errata, so I would expect an eventual clarification if you are patient. I cannot anticipate a time frame - it will happen when it happens.

Also note that Rabbit, Bear, Squirrel and Kangaroo all appear to be neutrals as they are listed as superfoods or avoids for other types. They are all red meat and there is no argument that they are not beef.

Caribou as well, I believe.

Thanks for weighing in again with those reassuring comments, Lloyd. I suppose I didn't so much expect an answer in this forum as I just wanted to bring the issue to light. It's been interesting.

I was caught off guard by the strong reactions to this thread, some of which didn't seem to have anything to do with the original question (which still hasn't been answered to my satisfaction). Guess I'm not used to being around so many Warriors...there were only two of us on the GTD board before my membership expired.

Oh, we get off-topic on a regular basis on the board! Sometimes, seriously off-topic, but it is a great experience we enjoy on this forum!!!

BTW, did you broach the question of the beef issue on the official Geno board? That is the place where Dr. D. answers these types of questions - or not. Another BTW, have you ever seen any other diet on the market where the writers of the books had a forum where they answered questions about their diets at all? Maybe some of them have but they must be few and far between. I never felt any connection to the writers of diets except through the pages of their various books.

I can't remember whether you were on the BTD before learning about the GTD or not - maybe you haven't said. Anyway, many of us already learned from experience on the BTD all we needed to know about the problems with beef, so maybe that will explain our acceptance of beef being wholly an avoid, in spite of our being Warriors! However, some younger people don't notice the problems with it that older people do because they haven't shown up yet. My sons, both A-types, still have steaks once in a while and the occasional hamburger. It bothers one of them worse than it does the other, but he just takes some lactase and that reduces the symptoms. They both realize that eventually they will have to give up beef, though.

Remember, we don't always get answers to personal questions we have, and we try not to expect it. I don't feel that anyone on the board or Dr. D. himself owes me anything, but I do, most wholeheartedly, appreciate the tremendous amount of help I have received from all the kind-hearted folks here. They've even tolerated me griping about beans and my on-going struggle to digest them and haven't thrown me off yet!! I will persevere with the beans, though slowly! Actually, once I go through the agony of digesting them, they make me feel wonderful! Sorry, see how easy it is to get off topic?!!!

BTW, did you broach the question of the beef issue on the official Geno board?

No, the issue came up after someone mentioned her Warrior MIL was craving beef. There was a brief discussion amongst the few people on the thread about interpretation of neutrals, and that was that. Lola was stuck over here at the time, otherwise I'm sure she would have chimed in.

Ostrich is in the poultry category. But as a poultry neutral, it has possibilities...if I ever move to Australia.

If you try enough places you may find it in the states. I have found it at two different health food stores and am buying it from the cheaper one ($6.99 for one pound ground ostrich).

The health food store is an hour and fifteen minutes drive. I have also located a farm where I can buy it direct, but it is two hours away and I have not developed another reason to travel in that direction.

The farm is not cheaper, but gives a better selection of different cuts of the bird.

Thanks, C_sharp. In my area, it's easy to find just about any kind of food, so no problems there. I'm leaning toward a locatarian diet, though (hope I spelled that right)...local is the new organic, y'know. Not that I wouldn't eat ostrich if it landed on my plate.

precisely a warrior asking if he could have a piece of steak for his BD!!!Dr D advised him to get salmon instead!!!he did not say, ''yeah, why not, your BD is once a year right??pop some deflect!''no, his answer was that quoted above!

I remember this question from the GTD board... Dr. D's response made such an impression on me that I won't eat beef, even though I don't feel any specific response... Basicly, the response was, Why would you risk colon or breast cancer to enjoy 1 beef dinner? That is very explanatory to me. I apologize for being so busy that I didn't get into this thread sooner!

Yes, I remembered from the book that I need to eat things that reduce my arterial inflammation, but still need to reduce the possibility of the cancers... I am currently removing some benign cysts - before they have the chance to change to malignant... Fortunately, I was introduced to this diet. In spite of the detox, I still feel better than I have for 25 years.

Like in most restaurants. I'd wondered the same thing, and had always chosen chicken over beef, but chicken had started making me feel bad just before I learned it was an avoid on the Warrior diet. I haven't had beef in three years, so I don't know if it affects me or not, but I do very occasionally crave it.

Very interesting about the omission of some of the red meats like bear and squirrel and rabbit. I would guess then that they are neutral. None of it sounds very good to me, but if I had the opportunity I'd eat bear just to try it, having never had it before.

I find it very interesting and amusing what's unfolding here when the Warriors get to fighting among themselves. "Hey--you poked me with your spear." "Well, you shouldn't have put yourself near where I had my point sticking." Somebody in society has to be detail-oriented, and it seems like we ended up getting all those genes. We have an innate need to get to the bottom of matters and have things right whether it's us who's right or somebody else who's right--as long as right comes out clearly on top, we can sigh in relief and go on to our next big project. Am I correct?

ISTJ, BTD since 5/05. Battling chronic Lyme disease since ~1985.

"Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial..." I Corinthians 6:12

Well, Ribbit, the question about beef for me was always as clear as day because of the almost instant reaction I had to it beginning before I ever heard of the BTD. So it isn't anything that I need any answer from anybody about! The people I really have sympathy for are the ones having problems with diamond foods, partly because of my own problems with beans. I was talking with someone who is on the Warrior diet last night, and they are having the identical problems, and her daughter is too. I don't know the answer yet, except I have been thinking about trying them processed to a paste and, after getting a message from Janet B yesterday about that very thing, next week I plan to try them that way. I have tried everything else I know of - including addressing the possibility of polyamine overload with berberine, taking digestants of various kinds and food combining. I'm really hoping processing the beans will help because, as I've said, they really make me feel great once I get over them nearly killing me!

Right, but I was talking about a scenario in which beef and chicken were the only choices.

I plan ahead. If I'm going to eat with people where I'm not sure what will be served, I have a nice, big NAP protein drink ahead of time. There are usually things that I can nibble away on without people noticing that I'm not having meat. I have never been in a restaurant where they didn't serve some sort of fish we can have - even steak houses that some of our friends like to frequent.

this does not belong here but since you asked. Peter describes us as choleric.. here is what that means. Of course I put up the good stuff, but we have a down side as well. The one I like the best is that we are usually right ( second to last at the end).

Strengths of a CholericThe Extrovert | The Doer | The OptimistThe Choleric's Emotions

I plan ahead. If I'm going to eat with people where I'm not sure what will be served, I have a nice, big NAP protein drink ahead of time. There are usually things that I can nibble away on without people noticing that I'm not having meat. I have never been in a restaurant where they didn't serve some sort of fish we can have - even steak houses that some of our friends like to frequent.

I always carry a food bar with me at all times. I mostly use the whey protein bars...They'dhold me over for a few hours This allows me to totally forgo all inappropriate protein ina restaurant if I have no choices, and just eat a large salad. I eat the protein bar afterwards....drink a lot of water...order tea....I also have a little bag of nuts in my purse...bits of dried fruit. I also have green powder mixes that I can dump into a bottle of water...shake it up and round out my meager meal.

If I could survive on a vacation for 9 days, just two months after starting the GTD, I thinkit's possible to survive for one meal in a restaurant even if the food choices are poor.

AND what restaurant wouldn't be able to give you eggs or a big vegetable platter...Mostrestaurants have more protein choices than chicken or beef.

If I go to someone's house for a BBQ and think they night be serving chicken or beef, Ibring a few turkey hot dogs...

"The happiest people don't have the best of everything.....they know how to make the best of everything!"

Chloe, I don't think you would have trouble surviving anything as long as you were still up and going! What some wonderful ideas you have developed for yourself. I keep Deflect and almonds with me all the time. Sure has saved the day for me more than once. But you take this thing to an entirely different level!! Good for you!

I find it very interesting and amusing what's unfolding here when the Warriors get to fighting among themselves. "Hey--you poked me with your spear." "Well, you shouldn't have put yourself near where I had my point sticking." Somebody in society has to be detail-oriented, and it seems like we ended up getting all those genes. We have an innate need to get to the bottom of matters and have things right whether it's us who's right or somebody else who's right--as long as right comes out clearly on top, we can sigh in relief and go on to our next big project. Am I correct?

No one is fighting Ribbit. We are just discussing avoids and neutrals. I personally was kidding with my "sharpening spear comment..."

No one is fighting Ribbit. We are just discussing avoids and neutrals. I personally was kidding with my "sharpening spear comment..."

Maybe the spears are more like surgical scalpels, to separate the wanted from the unwanted tissue?By the way, I did not want to identify with a lot of the listed properties of the choleric temperament.For instance, underneath it all I think I am very emotional, even if it is somewhat hidden.