...lets do something to resurrect this topic, i spend so much time on PDF but i dont know where everyone is, khair anywayz....

studies are being done and plans are being updated regarding how much time an outfit and disengage from the Western Front and make its way to the Eastern Front, we must keep in mind that many offensive units are here as well, units which have to go on the offensive against India in case of war, so if there is any escalation or even a whiff of a war, we will have to disengage and get ready in the West....it would take about 35-40 hours for my unit to disengage from the bases in the West, concentrate, move, reach its destination in the East and become effective in my designated AOO....

....plus my outfit is also part of several IBGs (Integrated Battle Groups) or CATs (Combined Arms Teams), other units which also make up these IBGs or CATs are spread around, so they would take their own time in order to concentrate and become effective......in essence, these 35-40 hours are critical, if we get a warning time of lets say 50 hours before a war, thats all that would be needed... however, accomplishing the same thing during war is another matter,and if the enemy manages air superiority over our road networks, then there sure will be lots of fireworks...

Do you think you will be allowed to leave the area that easily by the militants?

...lets do something to resurrect this topic, i spend so much time on PDF but i dont know where everyone is, khair anywayz....

studies are being done and plans are being updated regarding how much time an outfit and disengage from the Western Front and make its way to the Eastern Front, we must keep in mind that many offensive units are here as well, units which have to go on the offensive against India in case of war, so if there is any escalation or even a whiff of a war, we will have to disengage and get ready in the West....it would take about 35-40 hours for my unit to disengage from the bases in the West, concentrate, move, reach its destination in the East and become effective in my designated AOO....

Do you really expect a sudden escalation of hostilies on the eastern front? I'd expect it to be gradual build up allowing PA plenty of time to re-adjust. What is the likeliness we'd face fire on both fronts? Could the militants really justify supporting India in a war?

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Do you really expect a sudden escalation of hostilies on the eastern front? I'd expect it to be gradual build up allowing PA plenty of time to re-adjust. What is the likeliness we'd face fire on both fronts? Could the militants really justify supporting India in a war?

as far as a sudden escalation is concerned, only a sudden attack at this moment can get us in an awkward situation, cuz the situation is very precarious in the East as far as our offensive capability is concerned....as far as militants are concerned, they dont have anything to do with India in any aspect, theirs is an entirely difference sphere and scenario.....

What i meant was, what is the chances of the militants continuing aggression if a Pak-India war was to begin? In the past they ceased fire (after the mumbai attacks i think), but nothing is guarunteed.

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-=-=-=-=Faith, Unity, Discipline-=-=-=-=

Kashmir is the jugular Vein of Pakistan and no nationor country would tolerate its jugular vein remainsunder the sword of the enemy. -Muhammed Ali Jinnah

-=-=-=-=FREE KASHMIR-=-=-=-=

These eye's do not wander in lust, for myqueen of hearts has graced them with love.

What i meant was, what is the chances of the militants continuing aggression if a Pak-India war was to begin? In the past they ceased fire (after the mumbai attacks i think), but nothing is guarunteed.

....as u said it depends, they may or may not cease hostilities........

eastern front is still the primary threat , what goes on the west is a high level insurgency that has tied down a good number of troops..

for all it takes, this isnt a situation kiyani is very comfortable in, he will either go down in history as the most inept general who saw his country bleed for 5 years with the worst possible people in charge, or as the most brilliant one who simultaneously checked india and NATO on two fronts

eastern front is still the primary threat , what goes on the west is a high level insurgency that has tied down a good number of troops..

for all it takes, this isnt a situation kiyani is very comfortable in, he will either go down in history as the most inept general who saw his country bleed for 5 years with the worst possible people in charge, or as the most brilliant one who simultaneously checked india and NATO on two fronts

Back to Cab the doctrine of helibourne forces securing few sensitive sights behind enemy lines is risky because there too many ways to slow down ground forces and link up.
I think that Combat aviation brigade has to do the frontal assault and intial penetration of enemy defences and induct ground forces and exploit.
timings and coordination is /will be a serious issue.
CAB is workable in Afghan scenario but against Indian Air force?? i doubt it very much

Back to Cab the doctrine of helibourne forces securing few sensitive sights behind enemy lines is risky because there too many ways to slow down ground forces and link up.I think that Combat aviation brigade has to do the frontal assault and intial penetration of enemy defences and induct ground forces and exploit.timings and coordination is /will be a serious issue.CAB is workable in Afghan scenario but against Indian Air force?? i doubt it very much

....tht heliborne thing can only be implemented if enemy air is non-existent, enemy AD assets are suppressed plus you ought to have a lot many helis to really make an impact........its not just Indian Airforce, its almost universal, no mobile column can have a chance in hell to succeed if enemy has air superiority or even parity in that particular area, either our airforce has to be pro-active from the start or our mobile columns should have an overwhelming quantity of mobile short, medium and longer range AD assets....plus gunships ready on call to deal with any enemy infantry or armor-heavy battle-groups which may spring an ambush.....

Panzer Bro, I want to ask ya a question slightly off-topic basically I want to know How many Tanks does PA have?? I cant find any exect info regarding numbers and have you ever operated Al-Khalid how good is Al-khalid against T90s and I thinks most of us here on PDF wanna know how many Aks do we have and if we do have only 300 then why the production is so slow.

Secondly, in your personal opinion how long will this afgan war will last (specially for us) will it take another dacade.
and lastly do you think that US will attack us as like if it will face an ultimate defeat in Afgan in this case How will we handle three ways assult an amphibious asult from Arabian sea and agression from Indian and from Afganistan . In this scenario what will be our option how will we stand against that Do we will have enough guts to go nuclear if our integrity is at stake.

....tht heliborne thing can only be implemented if enemy air is non-existent, enemy AD assets are suppressed plus you ought to have a lot many helis to really make an impact........its not just Indian Airforce, its almost universal, no mobile column can have a chance in hell to succeed if enemy has air superiority or even parity in that particular area, either our airforce has to be pro-active from the start or our mobile columns should have an overwhelming quantity of mobile short, medium and longer range AD assets....plus gunships ready on call to deal with any enemy infantry or armor-heavy battle-groups which may spring an ambush.....

The problem is that mobile colmn with all the MANPADss does not stay a chance ,even if do something too big and get air superiority still terrain friction will not allow any classical advances etc like WW2 style it is cirtain that Armour In present form can not achieve much but CAB can with better deployment and fighting techniques.Few year back we discussed it in this forum under the topic of Helibourne Armed division or something similar.Air superiority battle is continuous

Panzer Bro, I want to ask ya a question slightly off-topic basically I want to know How many Tanks does PA have?? I cant find any exect info regarding numbers and have you ever operated Al-Khalid how good is Al-khalid against T90s and I thinks most of us here on PDF wanna know how many Aks do we have and if we do have only 300 then why the production is so slow.

Secondly, in your personal opinion how long will this afgan war will last (specially for us) will it take another dacade.and lastly do you think that US will attack us as like if it will face an ultimate defeat in Afgan in this case How will we handle three ways assult an amphibious asult from Arabian sea and agression from Indian and from Afganistan . In this scenario what will be our option how will we stand against that Do we will have enough guts to go nuclear if our integrity is at stake.

....as far as exact numbers of the tanks are concerned, u cannot hope to get it precise, even from a serving army officer, its way too much complex, only the concerned ppl in GHQ would be having those figures, that too not all of them......better is, you go through the list of armored regiments, multiply the figure by 45 and you will get a near precise figure.........in the worst case scenario, going nuclear will be the only choice left, but then, there are always a few hidden items and techs which are not shown on exhibitions and not marketed, have faith in Allah and our Armed Forces.....a few hidden surprises are always there....

The problem is that mobile colmn with all the MANPADss does not stay a chance ,even if do something too big and get air superiority still terrain friction will not allow any classical advances etc like WW2 style it is cirtain that Armour In present form can not achieve much but CAB can with better deployment and fighting techniques.Few year back we discussed it in this forum under the topic of Helibourne Armed division or something similar.Air superiority battle is continuous

...Terrain always plays its role in the East, very bad out there, like there are places where ATGMs perform nil, there places where sand is so loose that you will have to lay tracks and AVLBs just to cross a patch, all this takes time, time which your enemy wants....

Panzer, all I see at 32&deg;36'3.15"N 69&deg;45'23.56"E is some small village with farms and fields to the east, south and south west, am I missing something?

All the chaos in Pakistan is just a self fulfilling prophesy....

Through the great desert dunes, where the moon was full and white, through the great mountain pass, upto the fortress on the ridge that guarded the entrance to the other side.

King Faisal: “I hope you will forgive my outpouring of emotions, but when I think that our Holy Mosque in Jerusalem is being invaded and desecrated, I ask God that if I am unable to undertake Holy Jihad, then I should not live a moment more.”

32°36'3.15"N, 69°45'23.56"E ... if you are entering these coordinates, then this is the place...!

i see a village on a hilltop. whats its significance?

This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

^^ that's an easy problem to tackle, a plethora of MANPADs integrated with Armored & Mech-Infantry divisions. Saturated presence of SAMs, MANPADs & ATGMs, is the best form of defence against an enemy who is greater in number of troop, tank, gunship & ifv! The Apaches, though very potent gunships, have only been used in war where the adversary didn't have an integrated Division level protectorate of ABMs, SAMs & MANPADs.

........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........

........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........

........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........

My Idea of an infantry division deployed in defence can be replace by this hightech formation consisting of let us suppose three tank regiments a combat aviation battalion consiting of 10 cobras/something like that and 1x mounted infantry battalion apc and one helibourne infantry unit.Field artillary unit is resource wastage 1xmedium Sp regiment. will do Lot will depend on what kind of fire power will be required with an aim of not the area denial but the destruction opponant corps through use of fire power and skills.It will be test of skill for division commander who has to set his command post in a helicopter and have to be in the battle field physically leading and controlling the events.

Why is there no drone strike on that village if that is a confirmed site?

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

But that has been identified as a confirmed terrorist training camp. There is no way of telling what they will do after their graduation; hence, why would the US not take it out sooner?

Hakim Bey: Don't just survive while waiting for someone's revolution to clear your head
Napoleon Bonaparte: The world suffers a lot, not because of the violence of bad people, but because of the silence of good people!

as i said before, those who graduate from this place will be operating against us, not across the border....

What stops us from bombing the day light out of them?????

Pakistan came into being on August 14, 1947. As the Creator willed it, the date corresponded with the empowering night of Ramadan 27 of the year 1366 after the Prophet’s Hijra. Its great destiny was thus set from the start

If we take our inspiration and guidance from the Holy Qur’an, the final victory, I once again say, will be ours… Do not be overwhelmed by the enormity of the task… You only have to develop the spirit of the Mujahids. You are a nation whose history is replete with people of wonderful character and heroism. Live up to your traditions and add to another chapter of glory. All I require of you now is that everyone… must vow to himself and be prepared to sacrifice his all… in building up Pakistan as a bulwark of Islam and as one of the greatest nations whose ideal is peace within and peace without… Islam enjoins on every Mussulman to give protection to his neighbors and to minorities regardless of caste and creed. Muhammad Ali Jinnah

Of the 29 returning Apaches, all but one suffered serious damage. On average, each Apache had 15-20 bullet holes; one Apache even took 29 hits. Sixteen main rotor blades, six tail blades, six engines and five drive shafts were damaged beyond repair. In one squadron only a single helicopter was deemed fit to fly. It took a month until the 11th Regiment was ready to fight again. The casualties sustained by the Apaches induced a change of tactics by placing significant restrictions on their use.[10] Attack helicopters would now be used to reveal the location of enemy troops, allowing them to be destroyed by artillery and air strikes.[3]

there were numerous citations all over the internet and wiki about iraq war,

in one incident, an iraqi T 62 ( dug in , date palm trees) stopped the movement of a whole USMC maintenance division when it neared baghdad !

Couldn't find the other topic for this movie and tried to post a new topic for this but getting an error, hence posting here.

Check out the newest trailer to the movie WAAR. The Cobra Gunship looks really epic. With its massive impact on the war on terror and fear factor, these old flying horses maybe now symbolize for Pakistan the pride that we once had with the F-16s.

....plus my outfit is also part of several IBGs (Integrated Battle Groups) or CATs (Combined Arms Teams), other units which also make up these IBGs or CATs are spread around, so they would take their own time in order to concentrate and become effective......in essence, these 35-40 hours are critical, if we get a warning time of lets say 50 hours before a war, thats all that would be needed... however, accomplishing the same thing during war is another matter,and if the enemy manages air superiority over our road networks, then there sure will be lots of fireworks...

With COLD START doctrine of India it is not likely that you will get 50 hours warning 2.Our biggest threat is from neelam valley down to bhimbhar kotli and we have holding formations there3.In any other sector losing some ground might alright we will succeed somewhere else.4.India might restrict the war to Kashmir , reason there preponderance in infantry and Pakistan weakness of launching counter offensive , what ever we have India can very easily absorb our counter strike on International border even if it is 100% success.5.What India can not handle or unwilling to handle is Nuclear strike.6.Let us suppose Yanks assure them that we will prevent Pakistan from getting nuclear or if your objectives are achieved with in time frame or India has to stop war 7.Possiblity of limited war in Kashmir is reality but how to respond to that Pakistan Army must be knowing it when and how terrain friction has to be increased.