I agree with Mr. Shogun. There was a time when transitioning to side control was actually helpful.

Also, if a dude hits the ground and is soccer kicked he'll probably still be better off than a dude that hits the ground and gets clobbered in the back of the head umpteen times like you see in the UFC today.

Not going to happen. The rules are governed by the athletic commissions not the UFC. Stomps and soccer kicks have the visual appearance of brutality, much more so than elbows. In this case that perception is key and the actual effectiveness of the strikes is immaterial.

I'm with Shogun. Unified rules suck. North American judging criteria, and round by round scoring is pretty dumb also, IMO.

Elbows are boring and kicks are fun. Elbows mean, no need to posture up and try and finish the fight plus they cause cuts. You don't need to sacrifice or risk position to damage your opponent or stay busy, and hence you can ride top control landing elbows for 5 minutes straight. That's not fun to watch.

There's no deterrent for fighters who just recklessly shoot in on opponents. Fighters can flop on their back without fear of being kicked. For example Melendez vs Aoki wouldn't have been a totally frustrating snoozefest if soccer kicks and stomps were allowed.

Knees on the ground would make GSP fights ten times better. He could actually finish... or get finished. Either way I'd be happy with that.

They were banned so MMA could get mainstream approval in North America. That happened and now MMA has hit a wall. It's accepted but it's stopped growing. Why are we still watering down the sport to appease people who will never support mma?

Dana says he doesn't like kicks and stomps because they take no skill. As if it's easy to get a professional fighter into a position where he can be kicked in the head. How much skill does it take to land an elbow when you're lying on top of someone? Not much, but to mount them and to land those elbows without being reversed takes a lot of skill. Just like properly using kicks and stomps takes skill.

A couple years after Zuffa bought Pride, Kizer was open to the idea and held a symposium to discuss the matter. Loretta Hunt was the only person to show up.Sadly that dream is pretty much dead. Dana doesn't like them, so I highly doubt they'll ever be brought back.

Edit: This time it's all Dana, and not the athletic commissions

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As cool as it is to watch, I absolutely disagree that stomps and soccer kicks are less damaging than elbows. yes elbows can cut very easily, and they do ugly people up when they land, but I'll take cuts and cauliflower ear over brain trauma any day.

Tired ass debate that Shogun is digging up to hide the truth. The truth is his health doesn't allow him to train and his training has affected his health. He was facing sub par talent, he was brought up improperly and is now paying the price. If Te Huna puts him away he should retire, not drop a wt class...retire.

So Kizer has always been against stomps and soccer kicks, but is in favour of discussing and possibly allowing knees on the ground. I thought he was open to stomps and kicks but I guess I remembered that part wrongly. In my defense te story is over 6 years old and didn't receive much coverage at the time.

Apparently the majority of fighters and coaches don't like Pride rules, according to Kizer so I shouldn't have blamed Dana. But IIRC Dana originally blamed the athletic commissions for banning Pride rules when they bought Pride, yet when Kizer was open to the idea Dana never even discussed it with him. Kizer gave up on the idea when no one showed up to discuss it. Dana's not solely to blame, he's just passing the buck and blaming Kizer, when really it's neithers fault. But it Shows that Dana had no interest in rules changes, and since they're the industry leader it killed any momentum the movement to approve Pride rules had going for it.

The Alberta athletic commission later approved Pride rules in Calgary, so it has more to do with the promoters then the athletic commissions IMO. And if one athletic commission decided its safe enough then why not the others? Because they don't want it.

It's argued that stomps and soccer kicks are too dangerous. I don't know if it is more dangerous than a suplex, or a high kick. Sport Science could prove it one way or another. The Athletic commission in Alberta must've had some evidence to allow the rule changes. I guess10 years of Pride FC was the evidence. What does Dana have as evidence? What does Kizer have as evidence to say stomps and soccer kicks are too dangerous but high kicks aren't? They don't ave any evidence.

They banned downward elbows because of a video of someone breaking ice with their elbow! There is nothing scientific or factual about Dana's and the Athletic commissions claims of stomps and soccer kicks being too dangerous.

This is a recent article about the recent changes to the rule, showing that the athletic commissions are still interested and open to changes in the rules and downed opponents. Kizer lead the charge to have these changes instated.Keith Kizer proposes stomps and knees etc.

Tired ass debate that Shogun is digging up to hide the truth. The truth is his health doesn't allow him to train and his training has affected his health. He was facing sub par talent, he was brought up improperly and is now paying the price. If Te Huna puts him away he should retire, not drop a wt class...retire. [/QUOTE

These rule changes wouldn't save Shogun. His knees are SHOT. This is true. He should've retired a couple years ago.

But the debate shouldn't have died without any real studying of the issue in the first place. I for one am glad he's bringing it up, even if it is for the wrong reasons.

So Kizer has always been against stomps and soccer kicks, but is in favour of discussing and possibly allowing knees on the ground. I thought he was open to stomps and kicks but I guess I remembered that part wrongly. In my defense te story is over 6 years old and didn't receive much coverage at the time.

Apparently the majority of fighters and coaches don't like Pride rules, according to Kizer so I shouldn't have blamed Dana. But IIRC Dana originally blamed the athletic commissions for banning Pride rules when they bought Pride, yet when Kizer was open to the idea Dana never even discussed it with him. Kizer gave up on the idea when no one showed up to discuss it. Dana's not solely to blame, he's just passing the buck and blaming Kizer, when really it's neithers fault. But it Shows that Dana had no interest in rules changes, and since they're the industry leader it killed any momentum the movement to approve Pride rules had going for it.

The Alberta athletic commission later approved Pride rules in Calgary, so it has more to do with the promoters then the athletic commissions IMO. And if one athletic commission decided its safe enough then why not the others? Because they don't want it.

It's argued that stomps and soccer kicks are too dangerous. I don't know if it is more dangerous than a suplex, or a high kick. Sport Science could prove it one way or another. The Athletic commission in Alberta must've had some evidence to allow the rule changes. I guess10 years of Pride FC was the evidence. What does Dana have as evidence? What does Kizer have as evidence to say stomps and soccer kicks are too dangerous but high kicks aren't? They don't ave any evidence.

They banned downward elbows because of a video of someone breaking ice with their elbow! There is nothing scientific or factual about Dana's and the Athletic commissions claims of stomps and soccer kicks being too dangerous.

This is a recent article about the recent changes to the rule, showing that the athletic commissions are still interested and open to changes in the rules and downed opponents. Kizer lead the charge to have these changes instated.Keith Kizer proposes stomps and knees etc.

I've got a "Best of UCC/TKO" DVD with a bunch of old fights in Canada where they were allowed to use knees to the head of grounded opponents. This is why I never understood why it's illegal in the UFC.

I think it's absurd that knees to the head of grounded opponents are illegal, and I'm tired of watching people put their hand on the mat just to avoid knees to the head. It's pathetic, and it desperately needs to be changed.

Like I said, though, I could understand them never allowing soccer kicks and head stomps, even if it does make things a lot more interesting.

How about not only that we go back to Roman time rules, add weapons, tigers, battle royals etc.. "2 men enter only 1 leaves", this will also cure the overload of the UFC roster as well. I can't wait to see GSP vs. Silva Super fight with tigers in the cage

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Can't get there without knees to grounded or just pseudo grounded opponents first. I'm sure too many people have seen american history x to go head first into legalizing stomps. We need baby steps to get there and the first step is determining what an actual grounded opponent is, then 12-6 and so forth.

Not sure why everyone wants to go back to the Pride way of judging, there were a bunch of bs decisions in Pride as well. Its not the 10 point must system that's bad, its the judges. Even if you switched to Pride, you still have lazy, dumb judges who know shit all about scoring an mma fight

_______________________________________It was fun while it lasted, thanks Playground

Can't get there without knees to grounded or just pseudo grounded opponents first. I'm sure too many people have seen american history x to go head first into legalizing stomps. We need baby steps to get there and the first step is determining what an actual grounded opponent is, then 12-6 and so forth.