Ha. And yet you just ridiculed me for being "anti-social". In one statement you denounced ridicule and ridiculed. You're AWESOME.

My intent was not to ridicule you. I was pointing out that others' choices and rewards differed from yours and that fear of ridicule was holding you back. The fact that you interpreted that as ridicule implies a level of insecurity that you would do well to overcome.

Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-19 at 08:45 PM.

Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows

People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.

Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

Someone making 250K a year with a beautiful wife, well-behaved children, two cars, and a nice house is a resounding success even if they wipe your raid the next time they queue for LFR. But who am I to judge if you prefer your T15 heroic warforged gear? I think that calling someone a "dumbass" just for underperforming in a game is a bit extreme, don't you?

Nobody making 250k a year is dumb enough to not understand, for the 100th time, don't stand in fire. Somebody with that kind of economic situation is clearly a capable person, smart enough to understand how to play the game, not a LFR baddie.

Nobody making 250k a year is dumb enough to not understand, for the 100th time, don't stand in fire. Somebody with that kind of economic situation is clearly a capable person, smart enough to understand how to play the game, not a LFR baddie.

That's a silly assumption. There are plenty of well paying jobs that are filled by seemingly stupid people.

Did you put your all into the grammar of that post? Or did you insult yourself by making mistakes? Or were you forced into doing it at gun point?

No offense meant, just being flippant.

You are correct sir. I did not. I deserve at the very least for it to be pointed out. How else could I improve?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

My intent was not to ridicule you. I was pointing out that others' choices and rewards differed from yours and that fear of ridicule was holding you back. The fact that you interpreted that as ridicule implies a level of insecurity that you would do well to overcome.

I don't have a fear of ridicule. I just choose to be my best at something before I display it for all to see. If I cannot practice an activity privately then I go ahead and do it in public, but with the knowledge there will probably be some ridicule till I improve. I'm perfectly fine with that. I believe this all stems from my annoyance at people who just do shit without the slightlest preperation or forethought. Humanity could do with a little more deliberation and a little less reckless abandon.

Not 250k. Unless we're talking pesos or Zimbabwe currency. You don't make that sort of money as an incompetent nitwit.

Models
Professional sports
Musicians

are the three very obvious ones people would generally assume to be stupid people earning large wages.

But there are more jobs that you aren't safe to just assume because they earn a decent wage they are intelligent people. And that's just under the very wide remit of intelligence, when it's a pretty specific type of intelligence you're talking about. An artist may be able intelligently translate a view into a painting, but try to get them to do some calculus and perhaps they're lost. Are they a dumbass because they couldn't work it out, or are they intelligent because they created a beautiful work of art?

Nobody making 250k a year is dumb enough to not understand, for the 100th time, don't stand in fire. Somebody with that kind of economic situation is clearly a capable person, smart enough to understand how to play the game, not a LFR baddie.

First, you're oversimplifying the difficulty of raids, even LFR raids. The game is far more difficult than "don't stand in the fire." That level of play was good enough for WotLK heroic dungeons. Nowadays there are many different forms of fire, and standing in some wipes the raid while not standing in others also wipes the raid. Knowing which fire to stand in is a matter of experience and/or a priori knowledge, not intelligence. Second, you'd be surprised at what it takes to be a "resounding success" in the corporate world. Likeability, negotiation skills, and leadership count for far more than one's ability to dance a virtual avatar into and out of virtual fire.

Last edited by Ronduwil; 2013-12-19 at 09:08 PM.

Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows

People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.

Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

are the three very obvious ones people would generally assume to be stupid people earning large wages.

But there are more jobs that you aren't safe to just assume because they earn a decent wage they are intelligent people. And that's just under the very wide remit of intelligence, when it's a pretty specific type of intelligence you're talking about. An artist may be able intelligently translate a view into a painting, but try to get them to do some calculus and perhaps they're lost. Are they a dumbass because they couldn't work it out, or are they intelligent because they created a beautiful work of art?

Musicians? Great memory and reflex skill, they would be good raiders.
Models? Yea they don't play WoW sorry to tell you that. Unless they were modeling new glasses for Tumblr or something. And I mean professional models, like runway models, not somebody who took a photo for the walmart glasses kiosk.
Professional Athletes? Okay, you got me there. But again, the social stigma of WoW is something that most people, like professional athletes, would try to avoid. Only a couple celebrities have admitted they plated, most after having quit.

Tanks did not want to tank random heroics, nor do they want to tank LFR.
It is NOT an LFR problem, but a community issue.
Whatever the format of the content, tanks and healers often stayed with people they knew, so reducing the numbers of those roles available and increasing the queue times for DPS.

LFR is aimed at unorganised, random groups with no requirements for prior knowledge or experience.
The experienced players always look down on it as being for the "bads", but with complete ignorance of what it is like going in without raid experience.
Ok it might not contain that many, if any without raid experience on many runs but that is who it has to cater to.

Those reaching the content for the first time, without prior experience have an awful job breaking into any higher format that reeks of elitism.
Inflated gear requirements, the need for gear superior to that found in the content, and gear they can't get without that content, achievements they can't get without that content, etc.

The lack of entry requirements for LFR is bypassing the worst part of the raiding community in other formats, the ego factor.

LFR is the only end-game some people will ever be able to see.
And so have no opportunity, nor need to push themselves to some higher standard that achieves exactly nothing.

A huge number of problems the players blame on the game are in fact driven by their fellow players, if not in part by those doing the complaining.
The community forced the need for LFR/LFD but are still too damn arrogant to accept that there should be content for people who are not them.

Last edited by ComputerNerd; 2013-12-19 at 09:17 PM.

Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking

I don't understand why we don't have flying so they tell us we will have convenient flight points. Immersion and danger? Here take some coins and fly me there while I read facebook or go take a poop.

Originally Posted by Reinaerd

T'is good to see there are still people valiantly putting the "Ass" in assumption.

Tanks did not want to tank random heroics, nor do they want to tank LFR.
It is NOT an LFR problem, but a community issue.
Whatever the format of the content, tanks and healers often stayed with people they knew, so reducing the numbers of those roles available and increasing the queue times for DPS.
LFR is aimed at unorganised, random groups with no requirements for prior knowledge or experience.
The experienced players always look down on it as being for the "bads", but with complete ignorance of what it is like going in without raid experience.
Ok it might not contain that many, if any without raid experience on many runs but that is who it has to cater to.

Because the dungeon journal was implemented for the raiders who read Icyveins right?

The problem IS with LFR because of the fact that it is a queue based system for content meant for a group cooperating

Because the dungeon journal was implemented for the raiders who read Icyveins right?

Icy Veins is the Cliffs Notes for the dungeon journal. I wish that journal was as useful as Icy Veins. If every player didn't have to dig through 20 different descriptions to pick out the two or three crucial ones that they actually had any control over then it might actually have been useful. As it is you can read the dungeon journal all day, but unless you have a photographic memory and/or several fights' experience under your belt it's not going to do jack for you.

If a raid is a logic puzzle then the dungeon journal is the series of facts that is laid out for you while Icy Veins is the filled-in logic chart. Just because you choose to memorize that logic chart up front doesn't make the person who opts to fill it in themselves a dumbass.

Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows

People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.

Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

So again, each mode just means more inflation and a longer gear grind. Now I normally wouldn't mind gear being harder to get, but running the same instance on 4 difficulties is not enjoyable.

Then ... don't run it on 4 difficulties?

What is your problem that you can't play the game in a way you enjoy it, and yet you continue to play?

And you think that what needs to change is the game?

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Ronduwil

Icy Veins is the Cliffs Notes for the dungeon journal. I wish that journal was as useful as Icy Veins. If every player didn't have to dig through 20 different descriptions to pick out the two or three crucial ones that they actually had any control over then it might actually have been useful. As it is you can read the dungeon journal all day, but unless you have a photographic memory and/or several fights' experience under your belt it's not going to do jack for you.

If a raid is a logic puzzle then the dungeon journal is the series of facts that is laid out for you while Icy Veins is the filled-in logic chart. Just because you choose to memorize that logic chart up front doesn't make the person who opts to fill it in themselves a dumbass.

The Dungeon Journal is of relatively limited use. There is no significant percentage of the playing population that is going to "learn" an encounter by reading the Dungeon Journal beforehand, especially three or a dozen bosses at a time.

It is good as something to browse during a wipe, while waiting for the group to get out of combat, though.

1. Offer tanks and healers some incentive to que, no the satchel is horrible. One idea is for every wing of lfr you tank or heal you can be placed in the front of the line as a dps toon.

You tank Vale of Eternal on your warrior
you then que for Vale of Eternal on your druid dps and skip the line

or give an increased loot drop for healers and tanks nothing major

or double valor for tanks/healers

As for accountability, the vote kick rule basically ensures every group will have trolls or afkers. People should be able to vote kick whenever they want. The dps in the SOO tier has been 20k-40k lower than it was last patch. If someone wants to roll in and do 20k dps than the group should be able to kick them.

The first option means if you don't have a Tank/Healer you have to sit forever in queue. This is already true, so don't make it double. DPS shouldn't be forced to alt a Tank/Healer just to get into queue quicker on their mains. I play as a Hunter so I can't Tank or Heal with the character. A more viable option is to let all Pure DPS classes become Hybrids that way it is more likely that we can offspec Tank/Heal and ALL queue's would be shorter.

Second option is really bad, if they gear quicker that means they need less LFR overall and that means DPS has to queue more and more while the Tanks and Healers queues less and less and that would increase the DPS queue timer a lot.

Third option is the same as second, it causes DPS queue timer to increase because less Tanks and Healers would need to queue because they finish quicker.

As for your tips for accountability. It doesn't work. LFR is for casuals that might not be good so they can see the encounters. So low DPS should never be the reason you want to kick someone. The DPS will increase with each wipe and increase with each gear upgrade they get. However we need to get someway to report AFK so they get a debuff or longer queues if they have gotten kicked because of it. The debuff for tanks/healers need to be longer also. Otherwise the tanks and healer will drop LFR too much. They need to increase the reward for staying a full LFR and being active in it, so they need to add some sort of feature that can track your activity.

Icy Veins is the Cliffs Notes for the dungeon journal. I wish that journal was as useful as Icy Veins. If every player didn't have to dig through 20 different descriptions to pick out the two or three crucial ones that they actually had any control over then it might actually have been useful. As it is you can read the dungeon journal all day, but unless you have a photographic memory and/or several fights' experience under your belt it's not going to do jack for you.

If a raid is a logic puzzle then the dungeon journal is the series of facts that is laid out for you while Icy Veins is the filled-in logic chart. Just because you choose to memorize that logic chart up front doesn't make the person who opts to fill it in themselves a dumbass.

You know what? You're right. If only they added something to show what needs to be payed attention to by each role or what is a major mechanic compared to just being the spell a boss casts. Oh wait... those little swords, plus signs or shields might mean somthing. Same with the skulls, red explosions, blue circles, exclamation points. Does a tank really need to read the mechanic that is marked with a healing sign? Nope. On Icyveins a tank would end up reading the healing mechanics if they don't skip over them because thats how the guide is written

Icyveins is most certainly more indepth than the dungeon joournal. The dungeon journal explains core mechanics, lists spells and tells each role what to look out for.

The point isnt that the dungeon journal = perfection. The point is that you should go into a Siegecrafter fight knowing that the bombs move towards you and not to touch them. You should go into a Nazgarim fight knowing to not attack in defensive stance. You should go into a Immerseus fight knowing what you do with the blobs. These are the problems with the LFR playerbase. If you aren't ready to peel from the boss immediately or forget to not refresh DoTs on Nazgarim during defensive thats one thing. If you are there tunneling him because you have no idea what you're doing then you are a problem. Unfortunately LFR had many problem players.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Normie

Then ... don't run it on 4 difficulties?

What is your problem that you can't play the game in a way you enjoy it, and yet you continue to play?

And you think that what needs to change is the game?

- - - Updated - - -

The Dungeon Journal is of relatively limited use. There is no significant percentage of the playing population that is going to "learn" an encounter by reading the Dungeon Journal beforehand, especially three or a dozen bosses at a time.

It is good as something to browse during a wipe, while waiting for the group to get out of combat, though.

The 4 difficulties are a linear gearing path, and for much of this expansion there havent been workarounds. Timeless gear is such crap its laughed at. Northern Barrens didn't help one bit, and by the time it came out most groups were at least pushing heroics. in 5.1 the items from the dailies would only help you get past MSV runs, and even then they were limited. in 5.2 there was NOTHING but LFR to gear up. More difficulties has made getting into groups MORE exclusive rather than less, you want to get into a raid group? better been grinding the same raid on a lower difficulty for some time or you need to be in a group from the last patch and progress right away.

The fact that the playerbase isnt using the dungeon journal isn't the journals fault. Blizzard put in relevent mechanics, playerbase ignores it, and playerbase continues to do terrible even on the easiest difficulty until any lingering mechanics are removed. You don't need to know every boss before you zone in, but before you fight boss 1 read the fight, before you fight boss 2 read the fight, before 3 read the fight and before 4 read the fight.

The fact that the playerbase isnt using the dungeon journal isn't the journals fault. Blizzard put in relevent mechanics, playerbase ignores it, and playerbase continues to do terrible even on the easiest difficulty until any lingering mechanics are removed. You don't need to know every boss before you zone in, but before you fight boss 1 read the fight, before you fight boss 2 read the fight, before 3 read the fight and before 4 read the fight.

So you're advising players to AFK on the trash between bosses in order to read the journal?

Those reaching the content for the first time, without prior experience have an awful job breaking into any higher format that reeks of elitism.
Inflated gear requirements, the need for gear superior to that found in the content, and gear they can't get without that content, achievements they can't get without that content, etc.

The lack of entry requirements for LFR is bypassing the worst part of the raiding community in other formats, the ego factor.

LFR is the only end-game some people will ever be able to see.
And so have no opportunity, nor need to push themselves to some higher standard that achieves exactly nothing.

A huge number of problems the players blame on the game are in fact driven by their fellow players, if not in part by those doing the complaining.The community forced the need for LFR/LFD but are still too damn arrogant to accept that there should be content for people who are not them.

Oh god the irony haha. LFR was introduced because whiny bads were upset there was content not for them. They had content for them and the raiders had content, but these players insisted on more. 4.1 players could have spent their time enjoying the dungeons as raiders did raids, but oh no, there better not be content for somebody else!

There is nothing elitist about anything you described. LFR has inflated gear requirements even more, not less. Why do you think the cloak is mandatory for many groups? BECAUSE IT IS OBTAINABLE IN THE EASIEST MODE BY THE WORST PLAYERS. Raiders seek to cooperate, not step on others and hope enough dps are paying attention that they can afk. Thats why raiders don't like new players, because new players are less likely to be able to carry their own weight. Why new players cant group with other new players idk, mostly because a group of 10 LFR players isn't willing to do progression raiding, they want to join a 11/14 guild run.

So you're advising players to AFK on the trash between bosses in order to read the journal?

Read before you queue up the first boss. Read during downtime the next ones. Trash pulls arent just chain pulling you know. Not like reading 3/4 before you queue is hard, but there is plenty of time to read during trash. I mean, its not incredibly difficult to pull it up and keep fighting trash even as a tank or healer.