If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

So...what do we do now? I am confused and frustrated. I know noone can tell me what to do, but I guess I am wondering peoples mindset on all this that has come to light.

Do we keep looking? Do we explore the Davidson angle? Is this a goose chase? If a direct connection is made, would BK even pursue it?

Do we believe the memories and look in those places? Could they be disjointed, convoluted memories, or completely incorrect all together?

Do we trust the DNA evidence? Davidsons...Powells. There still has to be a missing person somewhere, and we have not found that missing person. Why?

My

It's been a long time since he was found. He may never get back the memories; and who knows if he knows what is fact any more and what is not. What changed my mind about everything is Juan Doe.

I don't doubt that a lot of people are burned out including Benjaman. While he does post here; he's not here a lot & I don't know if it's because he is tired of dealing with this and just wants to move on or if he doesn't have a lot of time. It also can be because of the documentary; I'd imagine he signed an exclusive deal with them.

Personally; I can understand if he is burned out & can understand if he wants to go back to his present life without press; do what he needs to do to get a social security number & live his life. Maybe he thinks he will never have his old life back & maybe he doesn't have an old life to go back to. My opinion is he's probably adopted and his adoptive parents could be gone. I also think they could have immigrated to the US; I don't have any family here due to that and can understand if he's in the same boat as me.

With my own family problems I can understand that maybe it's better if he just lives the life he has. He's happy; has a roof over his head & is taking care of himself.

There is another case that is near and dear to my heart where the LE speaks about WS in a derogatory manner

There is a LOT we do here which is wonderful. Sometimes LE is very appreciative, other times I think they are simply embarrased a civilian found more than they did rather than appreciating tips and info from the public. We have all run into those walls. Heck, there is a case here in the UID section were LE is running into brick walls with another agency because a tip doesn't or did not fit in with their theory.

There are many great LE departments who appreciate and respect the help we offer...

and for those who don't. I just have to say I have a lot of patience as a Cub fan.... and there will be that moment the page turns, and they will have to eat their words. It will happen, not a matter of if, just when.

It's been a long time since he was found. He may never get back the memories; and who knows if he knows what is fact any more and what is not. What changed my mind about everything is Juan Doe.

I don't doubt that a lot of people are burned out including Benjaman. While he does post here; he's not here a lot & I don't know if it's because he is tired of dealing with this and just wants to move on or if he doesn't have a lot of time. It also can be because of the documentary; I'd imagine he signed an exclusive deal with them.

Personally; I can understand if he is burned out & can understand if he wants to go back to his present life without press; do what he needs to do to get a social security number & live his life. Maybe he thinks he will never have his old life back & maybe he doesn't have an old life to go back to. My opinion is he's probably adopted and his adoptive parents could be gone. I also think they could have immigrated to the US; I don't have any family here due to that and can understand if he's in the same boat as me.

With my own family problems I can understand that maybe it's better if he just lives the life he has. He's happy; has a roof over his head & is taking care of himself.

.

I fully agree. There would be nothing wrong with BK stating, I've had enough and am moving on with my life. He has the resources to move out of whatever situation he is in...... He is not being held against his will. He is free to come and go when and if he so chooses and pursue the avenues available to him as he so chooses.

I'd be very ok with him just saying it is time I move on and I wish to keep my private life private.

however, as long as he is still being quoted in the media, as he was a few days ago, I think that is somewhat of an indication he is still either interested in finding his identity, or he simply does not know how to say no to those who have done so much for him over the last 5 or so years.

'Chitty' if perhaps BK feels obligated to continue to open a part of his life he would prefer kept private. I think, based on what he has shared with us, his preference would be to go back to just being an average joe, with his privacy. I respect that. I hope, if that is the case, he will find the courage to speak those words.

Who knows, only he does.

Last edited by Cubby; 03-30-2010 at 09:20 PM.

~JMO~

A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown

This question was asked a few posts back, "For the record, we know inequivocally, that he was not assaulted? I have been unclear on this for awhile. What is the theory then of how he was found? This too, may be a key to some of the answers"

Not followed this case like you all have, but I have not seen where unequivocally there was not an assault. Also, sounds like he did not have alcohol problem, because of his general health, liver function etc... was good as well.
As you have said, he still deserves a name, so who cares really? Hope you understand my intentions are good.

If we are to trust the police reports that believe09 has stated she has seen, as well as Richmond PD and the first medical responders, as well as the facts- from roselovers siggy line, here is the direct link:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4381159#post4381159"]Starting from scratch - Page 5 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

there was never anything to indicate he was assaulted. There were no outside depressions in his head..

Maybe we have to wait for the links to be posted of the documents regarding Mr. Kyles case which were obtainted via the FOIA, or freedom of info act.

I think they still may be forthcoming?

Last edited by Cubby; 03-30-2010 at 09:16 PM.

~JMO~

A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown

there was never anything to indicate he was assaulted. There were no outside depressions in his head..

Maybe we have to wait for the links to be posted of the documents regarding Mr. Kyles case which were obtainted via the FOIA, or freedom of info act.

I think they still may be forthcoming?

From what I have read it sounds like he was unconscious and had no blood alcohol, so something happened and it caused amnesia. A closed head injury has NOT BEEN RULED OUT, nor a stroke of sorts right?. Mental trauma cannot be ruled out either can it? Either way, like I said, doesn't matter.

I"m pretty sure a stroke was ruled out and I am pretty sure there was no evidence of a closed head injury. <back to the link posted in Roselvrs Benjaman Kyle facts in her signature line>

Mental trauma, that has not been ruled out to my knowledge.

Benjaman Kyles wiki page has been updated to add the: solve the BK mystery facebook page. The wiki page still states Benjaman was badly beaten even though no documentation exists to support that statement as far as I know.

Just in case people haven't read the facts uncovered and listed in Roselvrs link, this is worth repeating.

2.) Misc Incident Rept: Nature of complaint: naked man sleeping near dumpster case number: 04080687 patrol area: south incident location: Burger King location code: 533 zone: 5 date of incident: 8-31-04 time:0640 Complainant: Tom Auer Address: same phone number :756-3181 Narrative: R/D and Cpl.Potts responded to this call and the male subject was sleeping near the dumpster. The subject was semi conscious but would not respond to us. Cpl. Potts had dispatch notify EMS and they arrived within several minutes. EMS transported the subject to St Josephs Hospital. w/f Investigating Officers signature: (illegible) Number 813

Hospital admissions

Richmond Hill, Ga - 8/31/04 - 2 week stay @ St. Joseph's Hospital

Transferred to Memorial Health University Medical Center, Savannah.

In November 2004, he was taken to the J.C. Lewis Health Center.

Head finding-
A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes in the right cerebellar hemisphere. *note from Believe - Someone mentioned to me offline that I was not being specific enough regarding the CT SCan.

Lacunes are an INTERNAL finding. There was nothing on the outside of his head that reflected these small spots. There was no external trauma noted on BK's head ie:Lacerations, Bumps, bruises, a depression in the skull indicating fracture. It was a normal head CT, except lacunes were noted.

Height/Weight/Hair/Eyes
Mr. Kyle is 5'11", was 240 when found (documented via email with Nurse Betty) and is currently 225.

Mr. Kyle has grey hair, blue-green eyes. Mr. Kyle had corrective surgery to remove cataracts 8 months after his discovery. (time frame was related by Mr. Kyle.) His blindness, which doctors diagnosed as bad cataracts, was repaired by donated surgery.

Scars

• Two parallel surgical scars on left elbow (from reparative surgery.)
XRAY taken in 3/09. BK read me the results-5" pin.
• Surgical scar on front of neck.
• Small round scar on left side of face near chin.

Dental/Fingerprints
Mr. Kyle is missing teeth:
• Three teeth missing from upper front and one tooth missing from upper right side

• Dental XRAYS are in the NCIC database.

Mr. Kyle's fingerprints are in AFIS.

His prints have been digitally and manually compared to Military Records in the event that he was active in any of the services.

DNA

Mr. Kyle's Primary DNA is in CODIS.

I have been told by NB that his MtDNA is located in a private database that they are choosing not to disclose.

His Paternal DNA has been processed by the Family Tree DNA database in Houston, TX.

Medical Records Question Answered by Memorial Hospital

I contacted Memorial's CEO today to find out if the fee as reported was still accurate. This is a copy/paste from his response:

"Mr. Kyle and his then identified care giver/guardian were given, in August 2008, 116 pages of pertinent medical records. The material was provided AT NO CHARGE. I do not appreciate the negative characterization of being uncooperative."

Memorial feels STRONGLY that they have given Benjaman all of the relevant data in regards to his stay at Memorial.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------A statement from the EMT interviewed for the Dr Phil Show
Snip-"An ambulance was called to the scene. "He was totally naked. He was unresponsive. When I looked at him, he had a lot of sores on him," recalls paramedic Sue Usry."-snip

Transient -
I have the police file because of FOIA. RHPD believes that they found a transient next to the dumpster. That is the position they took in 2004 and that they are taking today.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please note* - The question is from the member of LE, Answer denotes NB response. *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

snip

LE question What were the circumstances of his mugging and beating ? What police dept took a report ? Who is the investigating officer and how can I get a copy of the report? What are his injuries besides the amnesia?

Answer - He was found naked and unresponsive and covered with fire ant bites beside a dumpster. The dumpster is behind a Burger King on Highway 17, right across from Interstate 95 (exit 87), in Richmond Hill, GA. The Richmond Hill Police Department (phone #912-756-5645) responded to the call and the "miscellaneous incident" report case #04080687 dated 8/31/04 shows Corporal Potts was on the scene (I have already made a copy of this report as well as the EMS report for you - just tell me where to mail it). This is where the vagabond label was first applied to him and has made it virtually impossible for me to get any assistance for this man without the aid of a U.S. Congressman. Lt. Mike Albritton recalls the incident. He said his friend's wife worked the ER at St. Joseph's Hospital then in Savannah where they took Mr. Kyle and he was dubbed "Burger King Doe" because of where they found him. I asked if I could talk to someone who was actually on the scene and he said none of them are working on RHPD now. He said he is sure that Mr. Kyle is a vagabond. I asked how could he be sure if he wasn't there. He said his friend told him and that his friend also found clothes in the dumpster. I asked if I could speak to him and he said he no longer works for RHPD. I don't think anyone thought to use the clothing as evidence and it is too late now.

Mr. Kyle stayed in St. Joseph's Hospital for approximately two weeks.Upon admission, the ER doctor reported him as appearing as a well-developed and well-nourished middle-aged man [not a bum), although he had depressed neurological reflexes (which is not a positive finding) and rapid heartbeat. His liver function was normal, alcohol and drug screen was negative, his condition on admission was considered serious per the ER doctor's report. He was sent up to the Neuro (7th) floor. A CT scan of the head was normal except for several small lacunes (depressions) in the right cerebellar hemisphere. Perhaps a closed-head injury? The attending doctor states in his report that Mr. Kyle's labs are "surprisingly within normal limits" - probably because this is not the case for homeless people by the time they reach middle age - they would usually have bad liver damage by then and very poor nutrition. Mr. Kyle's lab tests alone are indicative of one who had practiced a healthy lifestyle right up to the time of his attack. He presently has very good to excellent health and needs no prescription or over-the-counter drugs to maintain this favorable state of health.

OK-I did some reading on lacunes. I can source everything for you guys, but small lacunes are more likely to be representative (65% chance) of plaque deposits in the brain due to vascular disease that is NOT necessarily pronounced or profound. As opposed to a previous closed head injury. They can also be representative of a stroke if they were thrown from the carotid artery in the neck. The only way to properly dx them is if there is an MRI-the MRI can determine if they are lesions or cysts.

The neurological reports I read also indicated that there are many neurologists that believe they are normal signs of an aging brain...for example, we know that certain forms of dementia are caused by plaque deposits in the brain. Whose to say that if the objects on the CT were actually lacunes they were not the start of what might someday be an age related "forgetfulness" when BK is in his 80's???

Regarding the cataracts... This is also part of the LE email I (Believe) have in my files- it would be interesting to know what Mr. Kyle recalls about his vision.

Benjaman posted his vision was 20/275 prior to cataract surgery.

Please note* - *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

~snip~

"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed untilapproximately October of 2004. When he came out of hisunconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts. He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."
~snip~

Last edited by Cubby; 03-31-2010 at 05:42 AM.

~JMO~

A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown

That was pretty long, so an excerpt of the above post Roselvr was so kind to save and share.

Please note* - *Everything bolded here at this moment indicates comments inserted by Nurse Betty. They are NOT the independent statements of the people who treated Benjaman after he was discovered.

~snip~

"It is also interesting to note that his cataracts were not diagnosed untilapproximately October of 2004. When he came out of hisunconscious/unresponsive state he would have been functionally blind. It is quite possible that he was struck on the head and became unconscious with his eyes open. The sun damage could easily have caused the cataracts. He had other symptoms brought on from exposure to the elements including tachycardia (rapid heart beat) and elevated blood pressure. He also had apositive Babinski reflex according to the EMS report (an abnormal finding except during the first six months of life) - this would lead one to suspect neurological damage. That is probably why the EMS completely immobilized him before transporting him to the ER."~snip~

I'm not sure what to make of the "it is quite possible he was struck on the head...." versus stating as fact, "it is quite possible when he was struck on the head....."

Two very different meanings and contexts. Am I arguing semantics? possibly, but until we have evidence a beating actually occured I think this is simply NB's theory. As a 'layman', I would expect when a nurse or someone in the medical field makes a statement about ones medical injuries, especially when she likely has or had authorizaton to see that patients medical records while treating him she would have some clarity with a statement regarding head injuries and a beating.

When a medical professional makes a statement to you such as above, what do you make of it?

Last edited by Cubby; 03-31-2010 at 05:56 AM.

~JMO~

A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown

That was pretty long, so an excerpt of the above post Roselvr was so kind to save and share.

I'm not sure what to make of the "it is quite possible he was struck on the head...." versus stating as fact, "it is quite possible when he was struck on the head....."

Two very different meanings and contexts. Am I arguing semantics? possibly, but until we have evidence a beating actually occured I think this is simply NB's theory. As a 'layman', I would expect when a nurse or someone in the medical field makes a statement about ones medical injuries, especially when she likely has or had authorizaton to see that patients medical records while treating him she would have some clarity with a statement regarding head injuries and a beating.

When a medical professional makes a statement to you such as above, what do you make of it?

If NB was in her professional capacity, it came from the offical medical/chart notes, backed by evidence, I would think,
90 percent probability true.
But, as we know, the bolded part of the quote is what NB has conjectured.
There is no official documentation of a beating or an injury.
I agree that the bolded quotes are just NB's theory.
Somehow they got mixed up with actual 'fact.'

God has a plan to help bring justice to the world -- and his plan is us. Gary Haugen
Source: Founder, International

however, as long as he is still being quoted in the media, as he was a few days ago, I think that is somewhat of an indication he is still either interested in finding his identity, or he simply does not know how to say no to those who have done so much for him over the last 5 or so years.

'Chitty' if perhaps BK feels obligated to continue to open a part of his life he would prefer kept private. I think, based on what he has shared with us, his preference would be to go back to just being an average joe, with his privacy. I respect that. I hope, if that is the case, he will find the courage to speak those words.

The recent article; isn't that Colleen? There are direct quotes from her; seems like the rest was quotes by Banjaman that were copied.

Putting myself in his shoes; I can't imagine the highs and lows he has. Does he get happy that another possible clue may be found & very depressed when nothing turns out?

Emotionally this has to be hard on him. I understand if he has to step away periodically.

The way the article is written it appears that both Colleen and Benjaman were interviewed. Especially with the quote marks around BK's statements. I have to believe they both were interviewed. I can't see this journalist lifting BK quotes from other sources without referencing them and making them appear as if she interviewed BK. Unless Colleen has a list of quotes from BK she has been given his permission to share with media outlets?

Odd.

Last edited by Cubby; 03-31-2010 at 03:06 PM.

~JMO~

A grandfather is someone with silver in his hair and gold in his heart. ~Author Unknown

Katy Kreller, the reporter from the Statesman, objected to me disclosing our email chain. She had a fair point in that I should have asked her if she minded me posting the information-out of deference to her I removed the email chain....so you all will notice a few posts missing.