man y'all certainly took the hi-viz to a different direction I was initially asking. I wasn't really considering the the "safety" aspect of this but more of a would be riding the in the hi-viz helmet and/or arm warmers, booties, other things like that too excessive in a sport that that has some pretty loud cycling enthusiasts?

...ok, wow. Who here has actually studied some psychology, physiology (specifically related to vision) and neuroscience? Raise your hand. I have. My whole undergraduate degree is in Psych, actually, and previous to that was pre-med course work.

[...]

I am pulling my hat to your background and reasoning, but in traffic the relative difference between rider and vehicle is often such, that the rider appears to move very little compared to the background. Say the typical case of rider (30kph) and vehicle approaching from behind with 80-100kph.

Abstract: Visibility limitations make cycling at night particularly dangerous. We previously reported cyclists’ perceptions of their own visibility at night and identified clothing configurations that made them feel visible. In this study we sought to determine whether these self-perceptions reflect actual visibility when wearing these clothing configurations. In a closed-road driving environment, cyclists wore black clothing, a fluorescent vest, a reflective vest, or a reflective vest plus ankle and knee reflectors. Drivers recognised more cyclists wearing the reflective vest plus reflectors (90%) than the reflective vest alone (50%), fluorescent vest (15%) or black clothing (2%). Older drivers recognised the cyclists less often than younger drivers (51% vs 27%). The findings suggest that reflective ankle and knee markings are particularly valuable at night, while fluorescent clothing is not. Cyclists wearing fluorescent clothing may be at particular risk if they incorrectly believe themselves to be conspicuous to drivers at night.

This really isn't that hard. You need bright colors with built in contrasts for daylight visiblity and reflecting surfaces, preferably moving, for night riding. Lights help greatly. Blinking light help more.

All that said and done, you are still just lowering the risk and not fully mitigating it. It's a dangerous sport we participate in so choose your routes wisely.

Case in point: I nearly mowed over a scooter this morning who was doing everything wrong - dark blue pancho (it was raining), no headlight, riding into opposing traffic (common here), dark color helmet with tinted shield. We were going under a bridge and it was quite dark under there - not light night riding, but very far from daylight. Had the scooter guy had done any of the above things I'm 100% sure I would have seen him sooner and been able to move the car over and give him more room. As it was, I didn't see him until he was a few feet in front of me - thank god I was going quite slow.

Yeah, feeling safe while riding and actually riding safely are two things most cyclist do not understand. Most cyclist will feel safe riding with a helmet, lights, reflective clothing, in a park, or on low traffic road butthat will let their guard down and the probability of making mistakes rises.

In contrast riding safely entails 100% awareness and focus in ones surroundings, the ability to anticipate obstacles and obstructions. The ability to proactively take charge of every situation that comes along. This is regardless of helmets, fluorescent clothing, lights, horns, traffic laws.

Remember, cyclists that ride safely will not put their life into the hands of motorists.

I think you are correct that feeling safe can undermine riding safely because you assume too much.

But a question: I was out riding the other morning around 7:45, as folks trying to be to work by 8:00 started zipping around. Country road, not much traffic, no shoulder, white line right on edge of road, narrow road, double line. The sun was coming up, facing me, making it very difficult to see what traffic was coming the other way. I see a car ahead coming in my direction in the other lane.

A big truck with a trailer comes up behind me. I turn and look at them, they keep coming. I point at the car coming the other way, then put my arm out, palm open in the "back off" sign. As I do this the truck comes around me and if I hadn't turned and seen it and pulled my arm in, I think he would have hit me. His trailer predictably swayed too as he passed.

What else could I have done in this situation?

The only thing I can think of is to move over far enough to the left that he couldn't pass me, but I also don't know if getting in the way of an aggressive, reckless dude in a rush in a big truck is a good idea either.

(I don't think someone in a big truck in a morning rush would have taken kindly to me taking the lane).

Contrast - so I guess I need a zebra striped neon jersey? As opposed to just hi-viz not necessarily being safer, what about reflective clothing in low light riding of fall/winter or during rain? I have a Spiuk gilet with two broad bands around the torso that are reflective and the material itself is hi-viz. Surely this has to help drivers see me when it's raining?

And, is there a special place in hell for drivers who refuse to turn on their headlights during rain or when it is definitely dark enough to need them?

A lot of interesting things to consider and read in this thread.

I've looked around quite a bit but have never managed to find a nice, race-fit jersey with broad reflective bands. Does anyone know of one? I'm talking a Castelli, Assos, etc. jersey...but with a big broad reflective stripe, not just piping. The only ones I ever can find are big, billowy club fit stuff.

The sun was coming up, facing me, making it very difficult to see what traffic was coming the other way.

Guy in the truck was looking for the same traffic, probably trying to make stuff out through a bug encrusted window. I highly doubt he saw you on the right side, especially if he was focused on the oncoming car, as you'd be much harder than the oncoming traffic to see.

Nothing you can do really in that case, except get out of the way and pray.

High intensity, flashing LED lights (front and back) are inexpensive and they are something motorists are accustomed to acknowledging as a warning signal day and night. I've been using Lezyne Micro Drive lights because they are simple, cheap, highly visible and relatively unobtrusive.

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