Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by The Rube

What if a minority assaults me because I am white and that person hates white people (whites have given a lot of reasons over the years, no denying that)? Or go back to my Greek Orthodox Church arson question and insert any race/ethnicity/etc?

For me, it's just...I dunno...too murky of where the line should be drawn.

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by The Rube

Read back to the original post on this discussion.

Why? He answered the question you posed in the quote he referenced. That would be a hate crime.

Hate crime legislation presupposes if you target a victim because of their race, religion or sexual orientation (among others?) it massively increases your potential victim pool and suggests you're likely to act upon that hate again. Random crimes often do not. Someone acting criminally based upon this kind of hate is a bigger potential threat to society than someone randomly getting in a bar room brawl.

And has already been noted Brent all kinds of crimes have severity levels attached to them - why is this any different or less valid? Please don't respond with platitudes. Actually think before you respond.

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

A LOT of crime is because the criminal hates some difference between him/her and the victim. Hell's Angels hate the Mongols, Bloods hate Crips, one race hates another, one religion hates another, whatever. It's all hate to begin with. That's my whole point.

Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by The Rube

A LOT of crime is because the criminal hates some difference between him/her and the victim. Hell's Angels hate the Mongols, Bloods hate Crips, one race hates another, one religion hates another, whatever. It's all hate to begin with. That's my whole point.

Your point is fine as far as it goes but it doesn't mean much if anything when evaluating the purpose of "hate crimes." Stop getting hung up on the word "hate." Think of it in terms of terrorism.

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by The Rube

A LOT of crime is because the criminal hates some difference between him/her and the victim. Hell's Angels hate the Mongols, Bloods hate Crips, one race hates another, one religion hates another, whatever. It's all hate to begin with. That's my whole point.

People are routinely treated differently by the law without issue; why should special laws apply if one is treated differently because of the color of her skin?

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

NewsWars is a news and opinion website by Infowars publisher and far-right conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, where he claims to be bringing “truth back to the media.” He’s infamously made false claims concerning the 2012 Sandy Hook massacre, and federal investigators said he inspired a gunman to open fire inside a Washington, D.C., pizzeria last year by touting unfounded allegations on his shows and websites about its supposed ties to former Democratic candidate Hillary Clinton and human trafficking.

In review, the website is laid out to look similar to the New York Times, which both Alex Jones and Donald Trump claim is a fake news source. All news articles are curated from other sources including Jones’ own Infowars. Some common sources used are Russian propaganda news site RT, Alt-right Breitbart and other conspiracy websites such as Zero Hedge. The reason why this site is not placed in our Conspiracy-Pseudoscience category is due to having more political news than conspiracy information. Though there is plenty of conspiracy as Jones shares numerous stories from Infowars and provides a link to listen to his radio show live on the website. This website is also different in that the majority of news is real. The reason for the Questionable classification is that all stories favor the right, indicating extreme bias, there are unproven conspiracies published and Jones’ longtime reputation as a purveyor of fake news stories.

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by Slap Shot

Hate crime legislation presupposes if you target a victim because of their race, religion or sexual orientation (among others?) it massively increases your potential victim pool and suggests you're likely to act upon that hate again. Random crimes often do not. Someone acting criminally based upon this kind of hate is a bigger potential threat to society than someone randomly getting in a bar room brawl.

I'll have to see a link supporting this premise. This doesn't make sense to me.

Hate crime legislation is primarily passed for the purpose of society sending a message that committing an act that is already a criminal act under our laws, but committing it against someone specifically because of their race or religion, etc..., is especially horrific and should be particularly singled out as heinous under our laws. It certainly isn't passed because of any sort of "increase" in the potential victim pool. To the contrary these laws by their very definition take an existing criminal law and limit its application to offenses against a subset of our society. Anyone can be an assault victim. Only a limited few can be a victim of assault based upon race.

That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

Re: Nice Planet: Screw It, I'm Outta Here

Originally Posted by dxmnkd316

Incorrect.

How so? It's true that a member of every race is potentially the victim of a hate crime based upon race. However, I'm not sure that practically speaking you can demonstrate a hate crime committed against a person of the same race as the actor. So, as a caucasian I theoretically could commit a hate crime based upon race against a person of every race except for a caucasian, thus limiting the grouping.

That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.