You are crazy if you want to pedal motorcycle wheels and, if you plan some pedal input at all, you are completely in a wrong setup right now. Your requirements need to target a build in the 60 lbs, with a top speed 20% faster than your usual riding speed. Then you can think of adding some pedal input, and dream of respectable efficiency,

My bikes are useless to pedal input. Single and tuned to conveniently pedal the bike powerless. My average energy usage is 149 w/h per km.

Not really understanding the first part but did you mean that you cannot pedal your bike without power? Is this called motor drag? I can still use my current bike without any power although it does feel like riding through mud.

Nope, my crank ratio is set to comfortably pedal the bike unpowered (empty charge). When it is powered, the crank is useless because it is a single gear with a ratio for sub 10 Mph, on a bike that is quick to hit 60 Mph.

People who are building with such a big hub are not into cycling. They are into motor sport, or fast commuting.

There is a weight and power, at which a bike doesn’t feel like a bicycle anymore. I like to call them ULM, for Ultra Light Motorcycle. This weight and power level does vary with different riders, but for most starts around 75 lbs and 10kw.

You are crazy if you want to pedal motorcycle wheels and, if you plan some pedal input at all, you are completely in a wrong setup right now. Your requirements need to target a build in the 60 lbs, with a top speed 20% faster than your usual riding speed. Then you can think of adding some pedal input, and dream of respectable efficiency,

My bikes are useless to pedal input. Single and tuned to conveniently pedal the bike powerless. My average energy usage is 149 w/h per km.

Not really understanding the first part but did you mean that you cannot pedal your bike without power? Is this called motor drag? I can still use my current bike without any power although it does feel like riding through mud.

Nope, my crank ratio is set to comfortably pedal the bike unpowered (empty charge). When it is powered, the crank is useless because it is a single gear with a ratio for sub 10 Mph, on a bike that is quick to hit 60 Mph.

Ok got you. What I was worried about was the motor being hard to turn without power. My BBSHD makes it feel like riding through mud which I guess is partly due to the internal gearing and perhaps the motor itself. Roughly how much resistance is there when trying to pedal the QS205 without any battery power? Is it simply the mass of the motor that gives it that resistance or is it something to do with the magnets? I know nothing about motors at all so I apologise if it sounds stupid.

People who are building with such a big hub are not into cycling. They are into motor sport, or fast commuting.

There is a weight and power, at which a bike doesn’t feel like a bicycle anymore. I like to call them ULM, for Ultra Light Motorcycle. This weight and power level does vary with different riders, but for most starts around 75 lbs and 10kw.

I am no stranger to speed. I want something that accelerates brutally but it just has to be usable. Essentially what I would like is a fast, stable and efficient exercise bike.

People who are building with such a big hub are not into cycling. They are into motor sport, or fast commuting.

There is a weight and power, at which a bike doesn’t feel like a bicycle anymore. I like to call them ULM, for Ultra Light Motorcycle. This weight and power level does vary with different riders, but for most starts around 75 lbs and 10kw.

I am no stranger to speed. I want something that accelerates brutally but it just has to be usable. Essentially what I would like is a fast, stable and efficient exercise bike.

So it comes back to what I had said previously: you need to target sub 70 lbs, so it does feel like a usable bicycle. One need to be pretty strong already, to handle 70 lbs like a bicycle.

Stability does rely in geometry and balance, not weight.

Speed is easy to build pretty light weight but: if you target good efficiency at 30, I’d say try not to build faster than 40. Or, you can build with a battery that you can quickly reconfigure, running 12s 4p or 24s 2p at will, is simple with lipo bricks.

I assumed weight would help because at the moment my main issue with stability only occurs when the wind catches the front wheel, it's feels like the front wheel is about to wash out. I am not sure if it's because of the large skinny wheels or the weight but I would have thought it was the weight because the rear does not suffer from this and as soon as I load up the front by using the brake the bike becomes stable. Also the bike does not handle the pot holes or bumps well at all, I am thinking this is because it's a hard tail with a low quality Suntour fork. I thought about building one of those Chinese full suspension M600 bikes but I decided not to due to the cost of the components vs the capacity and power. If I am going to iron out the problems I have on my current bike which is stability/range/power I thought I might as well get one of those bulky EEB style frames.

Here is my current bike

Aesthetically these are the best EEB style frames I have seen so far

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I need to do some research on motor KV, battery voltage, phase current and controllers to try and figure out what combination will be best. If you know of any educational threads regarding these topics please link them (I hate reading through posts like mine looking for premium info )

1) Build your own and save $: www.em3ev.com OR buy one already made
2) Have 2 separate bikes: 1 for exercise and the other for commuting because EEB are too heavy to try to pedal for long distances. The only way I see around it to have a dual purpose EEB is to install a PAS.

I purchased an EEB frame from EM3EV and have been commuting 5 days a week on it for around 8 months now, its awesome and hasn't failed me yet. I would have preferred the futr alpha frame but its a bit too expensive, although if I was building again I'd probably suck it up and buy the alpha. I'm running a lighter 1500w edge motor up to around 5000w, average 1-2000w when cruising on the flat, gets me going along pretty quick, I bought it with PAS but never installed it and to be honest wouldn't bother, as others have said its a fast commuter not an exercise bike, I pedal sometimes when I'm overtaking other bikers or going past cops but otherwise don't bother too much, you'll have grand ideas of pedaling at the start but with that much power you eventually just stop as its not worth it, and I would never pedal it around not powered unlike say a BBSHD which you can ride fine with turned off. I've got another non electric bike at home that I still use on the weekends when I want the extra exercise etc.

I purchased an EEB frame from EM3EV and have been commuting 5 days a week on it for around 8 months now, its awesome and hasn't failed me yet. I would have preferred the futr alpha frame but its a bit too expensive, although if I was building again I'd probably suck it up and buy the alpha. I'm running a lighter 1500w edge motor up to around 5000w, average 1-2000w when cruising on the flat, gets me going along pretty quick, I bought it with PAS but never installed it and to be honest wouldn't bother, as others have said its a fast commuter not an exercise bike, I pedal sometimes when I'm overtaking other bikers or going past cops but otherwise don't bother too much, you'll have grand ideas of pedaling at the start but with that much power you eventually just stop as its not worth it, and I would never pedal it around not powered unlike say a BBSHD which you can ride fine with turned off. I've got another non electric bike at home that I still use on the weekends when I want the extra exercise etc.

Does anyone know of an online calculator for gearing? I have seen quite a few but none of them use the circumference of the wheel. I have been told that pedalling is not an option but I was wondering if a 52T on the front and a 11T on the rear along with a 17" rim with a high profile tyre would amount to a reasonable speed and cadence. Can a 52T and an 11T even be done on these bikes?

Does anyone know of an online calculator for gearing? I have seen quite a few but none of them use the circumference of the wheel. I have been told that pedalling is not an option but I was wondering if a 52T on the front and a 11T on the rear along with a 17" rim with a high profile tyre would amount to a reasonable speed and cadence. Can a 52T and an 11T even be done on these bikes?

Mammoth ebike offers the suntour vboxx pedal transmission gearbox just like stealth bomber that allows pedaling effectively from low through high speeds.. or consider an overdrive bottom bracket such as comes on fighter, etc for a cheaper overdrive pedal option.. qulbix also offers an overdrive system for pedaling at higher speeds..

If you are going to use a big QS 205, I guess you intend to use a 50H?
Then you cant have a smaller than 16 tooth sprocket on the motor as far as I know. If you want to pedal at higher speeds you would need a crazy big front sprocket. I had a 48 tooth, I could maby fit a 50 or 52 sprocket on my frame. But with my 17" wheel it would be far from enogh to be able to pedal at speed.

As others have said, maby an overdrive would work. Or you would have to go with an edge or simular 35mm motor to be able to fit a casette with more gears on the motor, and you would still need a rather big front sprocket.

Does anyone know of an online calculator for gearing? I have seen quite a few but none of them use the circumference of the wheel. I have been told that pedalling is not an option but I was wondering if a 52T on the front and a 11T on the rear along with a 17" rim with a high profile tyre would amount to a reasonable speed and cadence. Can a 52T and an 11T even be done on these bikes?

Mammoth ebike offers the suntour vboxx pedal transmission gearbox just like stealth bomber that allows pedaling effectively from low through high speeds.. or consider an overdrive bottom bracket such as comes on fighter, etc for a cheaper overdrive pedal option.. qulbix also offers an overdrive system for pedaling at higher speeds..

THANK YOU! This should make it possible! This problem of gearing has been bugging me for weeks! All of the solutions required an ugly work around or a custom frame design but the Schlumpf drive that's used on the Fighter is perfect.

The schlumpf hs drive is good but, very expansive, PITA to install, requires rimming your frame’s BB, and spare parts are long to get.

No matter the solution that you end up with, keep in mind that you must be able to pedal the big bike home in case of empty battery, or system failure.

How do you rim the bottom bracket? I have not found a reseller of these drives, do you know where I can get one or how much I should expect to pay? By the look of the options available pedalling will not be a problem, 48T for when the battery is empty and 120T for 30mph pedalling (correct me if I am wrong). Do you know if you can get a 12T for the QS 205? If not what is the lowest that will go on?

I have also seen a few posts mentioning that the clearance for the rear brake disc is quite poor and has resulted in wires being damaged. I had a magical idea to do away with the rear calliper and disc all together and use a hydraulic e lever capped off but connected to the regen system and then just fill the lever with a little fluid and mostly air to give it a synthetic hydraulic like feeling without the calliper actually being needed. This would clean things up considerably whilst giving the phase cables more clearance and also decrease the amount of parts which would need cleaning, maintenance or replacing. I then thought if I should use a regular MT5 for the front as the 2 braking systems would then be totally isolated from each other and also the regen from the throttle.

Resellers usually rent the tool for rimming the BB, if you can’t improvise and make one yourself. Those who are making/selling tadpole trikes are the ones to see for a Schlumpf HS drive.

Brakes installation and tuning is not a problem for those with mechanical consciousness. Only newbies try to ride with a brake that is not set and aligned properly, and wiring that is not safely secured. Ebike building does require some basic fabrication skills: making dropout plates and/or custom brake brackets is not rocket science, but seems a big challenge for some.

Resellers usually rent the tool for rimming the BB, if you can’t improvise and make one yourself. Those who are making/selling tadpole trikes are the ones to see for a Schlumpf HS drive.

Brakes installation and tuning is not a problem for those with mechanical consciousness. Only newbies try to ride with a brake that is not set and aligned properly, and wiring that is not safely secured. Ebike building does require some basic fabrication skills: making dropout plates and/or custom brake brackets is not rocket science, but seems a big challenge for some.

I do not have access to a work shop or tools so eliminating as many problems is quite important.

Angle grinder, drill, files, hacksaw, knife, crimping tool, multimeter.. that is about all that you need to build ebikes. You still need the usual bicycle tool kit, of course.

A Magura Gustav M caliper does fit without any mod with a rotor mounted direct on the QS 205, no spacer required. Yet, the Gustav caliper is not that easy to find, but spare parts are available and brake pads are not expansive.