People who say insider isnt worth the money dont know what theyre talking about. From strictly a monetary standpoint, it pays for itself with Hollingers forecasts. Whether you like him or not, in the real world, the man has sold alot of books and his annual forecasts alone used to run near 20bucks IIRC. Maybe 12.95, anyways the fact that its free for insiders is a privilege that is not lost on me.

ManRam

10-05-2009, 06:13 PM

Pretty safe list. I don't see LeBron being unseeded though...especially with Shaq in fold (I don't believe the whole Shaq "clogging" up the lane theory at all, not like every other slow footed big man he's ever had didn't before hand). He'll take some pressure off him, and allow for a little more space to shoot.

And I'm a Hollinger fan too...like Chronz. Big time.

And Kevin Love is the best offensive rebounder in the game, one of the best overall (#3 per 48). He's going to get better, there will be a little less pressure with Jefferson improving, Johnny Flynn running the point...so on and so on. I think 20 might be a stretch, but if his FG% increases (great FT shooter), I wouldn't be completely shocked. Great role player.

sp1derm00

10-05-2009, 07:13 PM

I like how Bynum's PER is expected to skyrocket, but I don't like how Kobe's is expected to decline so drastically. I don't see Bynum becoming a more efficient player than Pau. Not gonna happen.

Kobe's drop in free throw rate was because of his switch over to a pull-up jump shooter more than a slasher. This year, he plans on utilizing what he learned from The Dream along with his pull-ups... he's gonna get his free throw rate back.

As for Lebron being #3, I don't think it'll happen. He might be #2 behind Wade if Wade has a dream season, but Chris Paul isn't taking #1 or 2 unless Wade is injured.

blackjack_119

10-05-2009, 07:22 PM

I like how Bynum's PER is expected to skyrocket, but I don't like how Kobe's is expected to decline so drastically. I don't see Bynum becoming a more efficient player than Pau. Not gonna happen.

Kobe's drop in free throw rate was because of his switch over to a pull-up jump shooter more than a slasher. This year, he plans on utilizing what he learned from The Dream along with his pull-ups... he's gonna get his free throw rate back.

As for Lebron being #3, I don't think it'll happen. He might be #2 behind Wade if Wade has a dream season, but Chris Paul isn't taking #1 or 2 unless Wade is injured.

A drop in PER from 24 to 22 is drastic?

ManRam

10-05-2009, 07:25 PM

I like how Bynum's PER is expected to skyrocket, but I don't like how Kobe's is expected to decline so drastically. I don't see Bynum becoming a more efficient player than Pau. Not gonna happen.

Kobe's drop in free throw rate was because of his switch over to a pull-up jump shooter more than a slasher. This year, he plans on utilizing what he learned from The Dream along with his pull-ups... he's gonna get his free throw rate back.

As for Lebron being #3, I don't think it'll happen. He might be #2 behind Wade if Wade has a dream season, but Chris Paul isn't taking #1 or 2 unless Wade is injured.

Kobe has never racked up huge PERs. He's been above 26 twice (barely twice, one time it was 28). 24.6 would actually be above his career average. He doesn't rack up the hugh PERs because he doesn't excel at rebounding, or passing as much as the guys above him. He's solid at both, but great at neither. His FG% is also significantly lower than his competition.

PER favors inside scorers more than perimeter ones. FG% seems a bit heavily weighted. I love PER, but it has it's flaws. Anything that ranks Kobe outside the top 2 or 3 as an individual has to be slightly flawed.

But Bynum that high up is ridiculous.

Toenail Clipper

10-05-2009, 07:26 PM

Bynum?!
Ridiculous!

sp1derm00

10-05-2009, 07:36 PM

Kobe has never racked up huge PERs. He's been above 26 twice (barely twice, one time it was 28). 24.6 would actually be above his career average. He doesn't rack up the hugh PERs because he doesn't excel at rebounding, or passing as much as the guys above him. He's solid at both, but great at neither. His FG% is also significantly lower than his competition.

PER favors inside scorers more than perimeter ones. FG% seems a bit heavily weighted. I love PER, but it has it's flaws. Anything that ranks Kobe outside the top 2 or 3 as an individual has to be slightly flawed.

But Bynum that high up is ridiculous.

The reason I say that Kobe's PER drop is ridiculous is because Kobe's pull-up game got incredibly better, but he realizes that with age, he needs to post up more. Kobe is the kind of player that draws fouls easily as long as there is some contact... and posting up involves a lot of contact. He will get his free throw rate up, and he will be an overall more efficient player because of his post moves.

Hawkeye15

10-05-2009, 07:53 PM

Pretty safe list. I don't see LeBron being unseeded though...especially with Shaq in fold (I don't believe the whole Shaq "clogging" up the lane theory at all, not like every other slow footed big man he's ever had didn't before hand). He'll take some pressure off him, and allow for a little more space to shoot.

And I'm a Hollinger fan too...like Chronz. Big time.

And Kevin Love is the best offensive rebounder in the game, one of the best overall (#3 per 48). He's going to get better, there will be a little less pressure with Jefferson improving, Johnny Flynn running the point...so on and so on. I think 20 might be a stretch, but if his FG% increases (great FT shooter), I wouldn't be completely shocked. Great role player.

I ithink with portions of the triangle, and Love's smarts, he will grow big time. I easily see about 14/10.5 this season, with good %, and free throw attempts out the ***

Hawkeye15

10-05-2009, 07:55 PM

The reason I say that Kobe's PER drop is ridiculous is because Kobe's pull-up game got incredibly better, but he realizes that with age, he needs to post up more. Kobe is the kind of player that draws fouls easily as long as there is some contact... and posting up involves a lot of contact. He will get his free throw rate up, and he will be an overall more efficient player because of his post moves.

but his rebounds will continue to drop, and this year, with Artest, Gasol, and Bynum healthy possibly, his posessions may even slightly drop. It is easily possible he drops to around 22. But, the Lakers don't need him to do the things Wade, LeBron, and Paul do, so it isn't a slap on Kobe.

TannerOwnsDevin

10-05-2009, 08:03 PM

Bynum @ #9

:facepalm:

GoatMilk

10-05-2009, 08:08 PM

lol
everyone always brings up PER to shoot down kobe

now that Bynum is top 10 this ish is garbage right?

TannerOwnsDevin

10-05-2009, 08:13 PM

lol
everyone always brings up PER to shoot down kobe

now that Bynum is top 10 this ish is garbage right?

to be fair, its just a projection.

JNA17

10-05-2009, 08:15 PM

even as a lakers fan i find it pretty damn funny that Bynum is projected to be number 8 in PERs :laugh:

Chronz

10-05-2009, 08:48 PM

Kobe has never racked up huge PERs. He's been above 26 twice (barely twice, one time it was 28). 24.6 would actually be above his career average. He doesn't rack up the hugh PERs because he doesn't excel at rebounding, or passing as much as the guys above him. He's solid at both, but great at neither. His FG% is also significantly lower than his competition.

PER favors inside scorers more than perimeter ones. FG% seems a bit heavily weighted. I love PER, but it has it's flaws. Anything that ranks Kobe outside the top 2 or 3 as an individual has to be slightly flawed.

But Bynum that high up is ridiculous.

Actually it favors high usage players over efficient ones, so it should help Kobes ratings but the facts are for someone who usually makes the safe pass that leads to the assist, and for someone who relies heavily on his midrange game, he has a very high turnover rate, its the main thing that separates MJ from any star swing of our era. He had a microscopic turnover rate. I blame Kobes tiny hands, he often loses his handle even when hes faking)

Throughout a regular season marathon, Kobe is not the best player in the league. Hes just not, he paces himself perfectly and is able to suit up for 82games a year because of it, but come playoff time, is when Kobe makes his case as the games best. And his game isnt entirely measured by stats, so you cant blame a statistical evaluator for that.

theuuord

10-05-2009, 08:53 PM

Bynum's projection that high isn't that surprising. He's put up PER similar to that in the time he hasn't been injured. If he can play a full season that's probably what it will look like.

SteveNash

10-05-2009, 09:07 PM

Adam Morrison projected to be the worse player in the league, seems about right.

ko8e24

10-05-2009, 09:56 PM

Kobe has never racked up huge PERs. He's been above 26 twice (barely twice, one time it was 28). 24.6 would actually be above his career average. He doesn't rack up the hugh PERs because he doesn't excel at rebounding, or passing as much as the guys above him. He's solid at both, but great at neither. His FG% is also significantly lower than his competition.

PER favors inside scorers more than perimeter ones. FG% seems a bit heavily weighted. I love PER, but it has it's flaws. Anything that ranks Kobe outside the top 2 or 3 as an individual has to be slightly flawed.

But Bynum that high up is ridiculous.

:rolleyes:

69centers

10-06-2009, 10:04 AM

even as a lakers fan i find it pretty damn funny that Bynum is projected to be number 8 in PERs :laugh:

Yes, the Bynum prediction pretty much sinks this list's credibility.

Teeboy1487

10-06-2009, 10:25 AM

Bynum being higher than Pau is a travesty. Pau is the most efficient player on our team. He does not force shots, rebounds well, good passer, and his field goal percentage is always high. I don't know what Hollinger was thinking when he did this list. He needs to revise this list.

Hawkeye15

10-06-2009, 10:32 AM

I think Pau is a bit low too, but Hollinger is predicting that Bynum actually stays on the floor, and the Lakers reduce Pau's minutes. I still see him in the mid 21's though for PER.

Hellcrooner

10-06-2009, 11:39 AM

i love how this dude birngs up bynum , jefferson or manu.....

you need to be healthy to do any kind of per

and al thee have to porve they indeed are healthy

im sure at least 2 of the trheee miss a signinficant number of gqames

Hawkeye15

10-06-2009, 11:51 AM

i love how this dude birngs up bynum , jefferson or manu.....

you need to be healthy to do any kind of per

and al thee have to porve they indeed are healthy

im sure at least 2 of the trheee miss a signinficant number of gqames

Jefferson has never been hurt, until a legit injury last season. He is back to normal from what I understand. Bynum has had a couple freak injuries, but he does fit that category of needing to prove he can shake that bad luck bug. Manu, has a lot of wear and tear, he for sure fits that category.