Bane's initial return appearances, what little I've seen of them, were lame, but I'm enjoying him on Secret Six. They found a good niche for the character.

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Yeah, Bane's actually pretty cool these days.

Maybe if they put Doomsday on the Six, I'll change my opinion of him, too.

But, really, I think Bane always had a lot more potential, as a concept, than Doomsday. Bane spoke, for example. Plus there's always room in the world for a Mexican (or Santa Priscan*) wrestler who breaks backs.

*It's kind of weird/sad how Bane is probably DC's, and maybe even superhero genre's, most prominent Hispanic character, and Bane comes from a fictional country. (Yeah--Kyle Rayner's Mexiretcon doesn't really count, and Jaime Reyes is not that famous, given that about eight people bought his comic.)

Admiral_Young said:

Batman ultimately beat him this time in their rematch and reinforced Talia's love for him.

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You know, maybe I was wrong. Maybe Talia really had always been written this way. : /

I liked the Death of Superman story, but I don't want to see him "die" ever again. I would like to see Doomsday come in and wipe out all the extra Kryptonians except Kara. Leaving just her and Superman. Then have Superman beat his ass for what he did. Thats about all I want to see.

Her blind love for Batman has always been in her character...she's had dalliances, but always has loved Bruce. Uhhhh Clark and Kara ARE the only Kryptonians left on Earth after the "War of the Supermen" Hunter, that was kind of the point of that mini-series. Not sure what you meant by your statement, and what did Superman do that you think he deserves an arse beating?

Love Batman, yes. Submit her own identity to his, that's weak. Like I said in the other thread, Talia ought to have a point beyond either pining for Batman or being used by her father or her sister (or Darkseid or whoever). It's kind of like this: Bruce doesn't spend all day thinking about Talia, but Talia evidently spends all day thinking about Bruce, and that's a little bit sexist, and a lot lazy.

Anyway, I think I liked her best when she was the only part of Alex Luthor's Society besides Deathstroke whose opinion mattered. She didn't get to do a whole heck of a lot (unless getting the crap beaten out of her by sub-Barda, ex-Female Fury, New God Knockout counts). But at least it seemed like she was working for her own agenda--that is, literally conquering the world.

...And rarely mentioning Batman, just like a normal, well-adjusted would-be dictatrix might. Maybe more like Scandal Savage, a rather similar character, except not inept (or, presumably, gay).

Heh. I see what you are attempting to argue about Talia but I think it makes her more of a singular character, more rigid and not really flexible for writers to play around with too much because people already know her deal. I don't know how her love for Bruce is sexist...I thought that sexism had to do with equality and stereotyping of women in a certain light. Is that what you're referring...that Talia is somehow a stereotype, and if so what type? I say again that she's been bred and raised to exhume certain qualities and her fascinating with Bruce Wayne isn't too out of the question. Ra's had a part to play with this too remember.

See, Batman cares more about his mission than he does Talia. But Talia cares less about her mission than she does about Batman. Therefore she is a less independent character than Batman. That's the sexist bit.

It puts her on a level lower than the level Batman operates on. If she doesn't believe strongly enough in what she's doing to continue doing it regardless of whether Batman is with her, out of the way, or actively trying to thwart her, why is she doing it?

This is not really desirable, either from a purely feminist point of view, or from a larger narrative point of view--it raises questions of how she manages to motivate her army, it makes her nominal goals seem facile, and finally it makes her defeatable at any point Bruce deploys his Bat-mite.

And that's not right. Ra's al Ghul had a more metaphorical hard-on for Batman, too, but he was different from all of the other rogues in the gallery, because he was global. Yeah, the Joker hangs out with Lex Luthor and has been in space, but that's not that characters niche, whereas that sort of thing is right up Ra's' alley. He could be used in a JLA story in a way in which Joker or Killer Croc could not, as a principal antagonist, not just some guy there to piss Batman off. And Talia ought to be pretty much the same.

I suppose the bit in Batman and Son can be read as a "together we can rule the galaxy, but if not, screw you" moment instead, but that's not the impression I got. Like I said, Batman already has the Joker; he doesn't need another stalker.

I've always wanted Bruce to give into Talia or Selena (he did the latter during the Hush storyline and constantly thinks about Selena but he continues to refuse Talia's advances because of her loyalty to her father) and have them be together for a few dozen issues or so.