I almost always shoot for accuracy . Not always MOA but Im shooting at something I want to hit . I don't mix 223 with 5.56 or brands with other brands or even wieghts of the same brand . Each of those things can change point of impact . I don't want 4 different impact points out of the same mag .

Now this is generally speaking
The twist rate of your barrel matters a great deal when it comes to the wieght on the bullet you will be shooting . 1-7 twist 62 grians or higher . 1-8 twist for the most part any wieght ,1-9 twist anything up to 62 grains . They say if you shoot lets say a 40 grain bullet out of a 1-7 you can spin the copper jacket right of the bullet . 1-9 twist is not fast enough to stabilze a heavier bullet .

If your shooting at lets say a bowling pin at 50 yards . you will probably hit it with what ever is in your mag . Put that same pin at 3 or 4 hundred yards and its going to matter what your gun likes to shoot .

Im sure you know but I'll say it any ways . Not all guns shoot the same ammo the same . You will need to take a bunch of different ammo out to the range and try them all out and see what your gun likes the best .

I started to start a new thread, but thought I just as well stick to this one.

Optics:
1) I think the shorter ones like most of the military use look the best, but, I know cosmetics are not the important thing here. BTW, are those short ones on the military "Red Dots"?

2) Hey, Metal god, can you tell me what the scope is on your black PSA build rifle in your pic you posted here, on page 2 of this thread?

3) I've only looked thru 1 red dot, and it seems to me that I might as well be looking thru plain piece of glass, except it has the red dot. So as for those, I don't see the difference than say, having the iron sights. They seem about the same to me.?

4) All I've ever had are the plain ol variable, magnification scopes. I got this rifle basically because I wanted it before the anti-gun politicians try to ban them again. I'll use it for self defense, varmints(you know, that covers a lot of territory, don't it?) hunting. So, I'll probably be looking at a variable of sorts, unless yawl can convince me that there's an advantage to a red dot.?

It's funny you just posted this . I was just talking to a few people about red-dot vs Acog . If money is no object then the Acog is the way to go hands down . I was told by someone that uses them professionally . The trijicon acog is the best optic out there for the AR platform . I assume you know what the AR platform is truly designed for ,yes ? Generally the trijicon acog 4X32 is what the military uses http://www.midwayusa.com/product/770...51-mount-matte. Im sure some special forces use other sights like Red-dots and others as well.

OK .that being said . There is alot of optics out there for AR civilian use that will work great for alot less money .

As far as red-dot vs iron sights ( peep sights ) There is really no comparison . While using iron sights you keep one eye closed and have to keep the front post in focus .While pretty much everything else is a blur . With a red-dot you can keep your target in focus and just put the dot right where you want the bullet to impact . You also can keep both eyes open and have a huge field of view and still keep the dot on target . A red-dot is great for shooting out to 100 yards or so. You can shoot longer distances with them but out to 100 yards is about as far as you'll want to go .. You have very fast target acquisition . I have one on my 10/22 and with no recoil happening it is insane how fast you can acquire your target and move to the next .

It really is going to come down to what your going to be shooting at the most and/or what you want your AR ready to shoot at . I think a magnified optic would not be your best choice for HD but it's perfect for shoot 200 plus yards . It's what do you want your gun for , and build it to match . You can spend alot of money on stuff that you ultimately do not use . I have so much extra stuff from builds , I can almost build another AR

Bushmaster makes a decent AR. I paid right at 800 not too long ago for their standard model XM15e2s 20" full stock removable handle. I keep it clean and oiled and it runs fine. No complaints. Big enough name for my uses, and came with a warranty as a complete rifle.

I'll try to answer some of your questions based on my experience and research.

Quote:

I started to start a new thread, but thought I just as well stick to this one.

Optics:
1) I think the shorter ones like most of the military use look the best, but, I know cosmetics are not the important thing here. BTW, are those short ones on the military "Red Dots"?

If you are talking about Trijicon ACOG's, yes they are technically red dots (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Usually they are a fixed magnification like 4x, or sometimes no magnification depending on the optic.

There are also Eotech's which are Holographic Red Dots. I highly recommend Eotech's for civilian use as it allows for true targat acquisition with both eyes open. With red dots you still have to close one eye sometimes.

3) I've only looked thru 1 red dot, and it seems to me that I might as well be looking thru plain piece of glass, except it has the red dot. So as for those, I don't see the difference than say, having the iron sights. They seem about the same to me.?

It's really all user preference based on what your purpose is. A red dot allows for quick target acquisition. It will also allow you to shoot with both eyes open.

On the other hand, with Iron sights you have to focus your dominant eye and close the other. it usually takes longer to acquire your target with iron sights.

4) All I've ever had are the plain ol variable, magnification scopes. I got this rifle basically because I wanted it before the anti-gun politicians try to ban them again. I'll use it for self defense, varmints(you know, that covers a lot of territory, don't it?) hunting. So, I'll probably be looking at a variable of sorts, unless yawl can convince me that there's an advantage to a red dot.?

It's really up to you. What I recommend is getting different optics/scopes for different purposes; don't limit yourself to just one.

A variable magnification scope is great for shooting long distances, but not for CQB. A non-magnified red dot would be better for close ranges. The beauty of the AR platform is that you can switch and change out your optics at anytime (if you are not in a time constraint, and with the right setup i.e. flat top upper receiver)

Just for example,here are my different optics. I can switch them around to any of my other AR's if needed.

I'm having computer problems, so I haven't been able to reply. Not sure if I got it fixed yet.

Thanks Justice06RR for pics, and to Metal god for links, and for everyone's reply. I've got a lot going on, and haven't had time to research optics a lot yet. But, I mainly got this for home defense, and otherwise. And, depending on 11/06/12, there could very well be a whole lot of "Otherwise".

So, I'm kinda thinking that maybe a red dot would suffice best. I kinda like the looks, and the Features, and Specs of it and price of the one at:

I beg to differ. You can keep both eyes open and probably should as closing one eye increases strain on the muscles of the aiming eye.

Hum , I just pulled out my AR with the iron sights . I have to say at close range and well lit area I can keep both eyes open and see the target . How ever low light or longer ranges its much more difficult .

That was just glancing and or looking down the sights . Im not sure if I could keep both eyes open if I were actually shooting . With the guns recoil and then me having to reaquire the target I think that would be very tuff for me . It is easier with the large aperture then the small one but I guess that goes with out saying .

I will tell you this . The next time im out shooting I will be trying this .

__________________As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old

I'm gonna tell ya, with iron sights, & both eyes open everything is just a blur for me.

1) This buying just never stops does it.? I'm gonna need some more mags too. I just noticed in the pics that Justice06RR posted above that his mags have an open or clear space so you can see the ammo. I've not seen that before Where do you get those? Magpul?

That PSA deal is not bad . You should be able to find mags all over the net at good prices including the Magpul ones with the windows . If they are for the AR15 , 223/5.56 they should work in your M&P just fine . Gun shows are a good place to pick up mags as well. I get alot of my bulk ammo from this site ( free shipping on all bulk ammo ) http://www.targetsportsusa.com/ . They also have other stuff like mags . They are not always the best price but they seem to stay competitive .

Unfortunately Im in C.A. and can't have mags that except more then 10 rounds . This makes it much harder for me to get mags at a good price . If your going to do any bench shooting useing a rest . I also would recommend you getting a few 20 or even 10 round mags . The 30 round mags can stick down to far and hit the table making it hard to get comfortable on the bench/rest .

__________________As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old

1) Hey Metal god in those links you posted on Sept. 21, do they all come with the rings mount, etc. so that they are ready to install when received?

2) I was looking for a scope that does not require a battery. I was thinking that the 2nd. scope in your magnified list the UTG 4x32 Compact CQB Scope did not need a battery, but, I just saw that it does require a battery, & it would seem that it is hard to find that particular battery. I've never heard of this one, Batteries: CR1620 3V? It lists it as Batteries, so it requires more than one.?? Well, if it does, that sucks.

EDIT: (3) Do the scopes that require battery/batteries, do they come with the batteries supplied??

OK i think the UTG scope and red dot come with the battery , mine did .I also bought 10 more batterys for like $7 bucks on amazon . Now for the scope that is magnified . The scope has an illuminated reticle . That means when the scope is turned off You have a regular black reticle and you can turn it on and choose from red or green reticle . With the magnified scope you really don't need a battery in it to use it . It should work just like a regular scope . Unlike the red dot if its not on your just looking through some glass with no reference point . The UTG scope comes with mounts . Most Red-Dots come with mounts and some scopes do . You will need to make sure what is what .

__________________As of this date 8-18-14 at 6:42am I became a proud grandfather I guess I'm officially old

Bulletproof, AR's are great rifles. Congratulations on your decision to purchase one. I have seen them stand more abuse and still work, than most other rifles(AK excluded of course). They are inherently accurate,reliable and all around fun to shoot. Cleaning is a must for any rifle, but they can stand quite a bit of shooting before needing a good cleaning. There is nothing wrong with a DoubleStar or other relatively lower priced AR's. they function great for most people's needs. Another to look at is the S&W M&P Sport. They really impressed me after seeing them go through various torture tests. Either way have fun and update us on what you get and how it works for you....

__________________
" The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to
keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect
themselves against tyranny in Government...." - Thomas Jefferson

So I've been doing a little research on the steel case vs brass . What I found out is that steel case ammo does not expand as much as brass . That means at times the steel cases do not expand and seal the chamber completely . When this happens gases and crap can get blown back into the chamber and carbon can start to build up . If your only shooting steel ammo you should be fine cus with the lacquer and other finishes they should still be slick as snott and cycle fine .

I also here if your shooting alot of steel ammo in the same day you do not want to switch to brass . ( first few mags steel then immediately switch to a mag with brass )The reason is the carbon and or burnt lacquer or other finishes that may have built up in the hot chamber can cause the brass cartridge to adhere to chamber wall and fail to extract and that can destroy an extractor or rip the rim off the case .

So only shoot one or the other per trip or per cleaning and always clean your chamber really well after shooting steel cased ammo . If you do not clean the chamber really well after shooting steel ammo the carbon can continue to build up and create problems with all ammo being shot thru the gun .

Reference Red Dots, I am slightly quicker when it comes to target discrimination drills with my Eotech than Aimpoint. Both are outstanding optics and are in use overseas in combat. I find that the "halo" of the Eotech allows me to quickly identify whether or not the specific target I am shooting is within the correct parameters before squeezing off. This is particularly helpful when transitioning laterally from target to target where shots count (HP/LP for example). For me personally I find that method easier than trying to center the single red dot of the Aimpoint (although I can do that as well, just not as fast).

It's all up to personal preference. I say try a few options and see what you like best. Good luck with your purchase.

Direct impingement gas system ( DI ) is a completely gas operated system . some of the gases when fired down the barrel are redirected through the gas block back down the gas tube and in to the gas key /BCG and that cycles the next round . A gas piston system uses a piston to push the BCG back to cycle the next round . It is similar but very different . The gases get redircted through the gasblock same as a DI but instead of going all the way down the gas tube it's blocked by the piston . The piston is then pushed back through the upper receiver cycling the BCG . The piston system never throughs hot gases and fouling in to the upper receiver and BCG . The piston system will keep the bolt carrier and upper receiver cleaner while in use but has more components to fail . The BCG and gaskey are just a part of the over all systems . although the BCG for each system are not interchangeble as far as I know .

Hey Metal god, your quote: http://www.amazon.com/UTG-DS3840-4-I...I2GEFS5W408V4U This is the Red-Dot on the black AR . I bought and use this on my 10/22 primarily. I have used it on the AR and it seemed to work fine . I say that cus one time it lost zero . At the time I did not have the windage & elevation knobs locked down so that might have been why .

Metal god, 1) Were you using the rifle when the scope lost zero, or did you remove it off the rifle?

2) How did you regain the zero?

3) Has this red dot scope held zero since then?

4) I'm now considering getting this red dot. I think a red dot would better suit my older eyesight. I'm assuming that it is parallax free?

5) I also assume that this red dot holds up to the mild recoil of the 5.56/.223?

This email link is to reach site administrators for assistance, if you cannot access TFL via other means. If you are a TFL member and can access TFL, please do not use this link; instead, use the forums (like Questions, Suggestions, and Tech Support) or PM an appropriate mod or admin.

If you are experiencing difficulties posting in the Buy/Sell/Trade subforums of TFL, please read the "sticky" announcement threads at the top of the applicable subforum. If you still feel you are qualified to post in those subforums, please contact "Shane Tuttle" (the mod for that portion of TFL) via Private Message for assistance.

This email contact address is not an "Ask the Firearms Expert" service. Such emails will be ignored. If you have a firearm related question, please register and post it on the forums.