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Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Just thought I'd throw this out there. LED LENSERS are quiet popular in Australia, along with Maglites. Convince me to buy a Klarus XT11 instead!!
I have some ideas, but just wondering why people don't like Lensers? Yes I know they're expensive and only run on alkalines. Is it because they have the zoom (zoom wastes light?)? Any other reasons?

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I don't think it's a dislike of LENSERS, but its just the competition is miles ahead of them and you can get better torches for the price. They are well made, but bang for buck they don't stack up well.

I was asked by Lenser when they were in their infancy to become their UK distributor, but worked out the numbers and it wasn't really feasible. Quality of the lights are very good, good machining etc but as I say, technology wise they have a bit of catching up to do.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Definitely relatively expensive for what they are. I have a mt7, that goes for around $100 - $130 in aus. It was the first torch after my mag lights. I thought it was good, but then got got the disease and got a eagletac g25c2 which is about the same price. The difference is huge in terms of build quality and ui. I'm pretty sure the ano on the led lenser is not type 3, as it nicks easy. I quickly gave my led lenser to the wife as a hand me down! Shhhh, she thinks it's the best!

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Originally Posted by CTR

Quality of the lights are very good

Not my experience.
Led Lenser might look and feel like good Quality , but they really aren't , not in my experience anyway.

To judge whether a flashlight is good Quality or not , you have to use it outside your home.
For example as a worklight. I did ,and after about 3 weeks the light began to flicre.
In my experience very few brands are suitable as working lights , and Led Lenser is unfortunately not one of them.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I Don't Like LED LENSOR because the are sitting on the zooming led patent and there are much better lights out there that could otherwise have this feature.
I don't understand why the zoom hasn't been licensed put in use with other makers.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I think -in some cases- on this side of the pond, they are still being associated with Coast who where their associates for a while and make (made?) lower quality lights. The other reason would be the price since they're made in Germany rather than China. They do make some lower quality lights -the small ones- and there could be a larger number of people who tried those rather than the expensive ones. I'm very satisfied with my M7R so far and it's been over a year now. I did have a few switch problems with my P3 that came back to normal after screwing the plastic switch retainer in. I won't complain since it cost 14$ and still works.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

LED Lensers tend to be overpriced for what you get. For instance, LED Lensers have:
1. Many LED lensers are direct drive single mode lights with no regulation. This means they dim rapidly as the battery runs down.
2. The few regulated models tend to only have high-med-blinky modes... similar to what is found on many budget $10 lights and far inferior to the modes and UI found on high-end lights.
3. They have plastic optics and reflectors. Many other high-end lights have coated glass optics with metal reflectors.
4. Dated LEDs which produce far less light than the latest LEDs found in other lights. Here I suspect it may be a conscious decision on LED Lenser's part. Their main feature is the zoom which does better with older, but higher surface brightness, LEDs.
5. Type II anodizing which wears through rapidly and looks like crap after minimal use. Inferior to Type III hard anodize which is standard on other lights of similar price.
6. Switches that tend to wear out and break.
7. Does not tailstand.
8. Not waterproof (understandable, because making a zoom light waterproof causes issues with the zoom mechanism self-cycling due to vacuum pressure).
9. No support for li-ion batteries. A AA-sized LED Lenser only runs on AA.... it won't take 14500, etc. Not much of an issue for a typical user, but it is a big issue for flashlight enthusiasts found on these forums.

The only thing LED Lensers have that makes them stand out is the superior zoom mechanism. They hold the patents to it so this feature is unique. Without the zoom mechanism the rest of the light is really no better than a cheap budget light you can buy for 1/5 the price.

The LED Lenser zoom mechanism is fairly good. On my LED Lenser, light output does not noticeably diminish zooming from spot to flood in a ceiling bounce test. Pretty impressive considering that on all the cheap clones using aspheric lenses light output dims dramatically when doing the same. However, despite the good zoom mechanism, the rest of the light just isn't good enough to overcome the price. You can buy much better and more functional high end lights without the zoom for the same price.

For the price of an LED Lenser you can buy a different brand of light, that is waterproof, looks better, has a much longer lasting finish, has 4x the light output, many more modes, a much better UI, and can throw nearly as far. Why would you want to buy a Lenser?

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I like Led Lensers and find the quality good. That said, the new Coast lights seem to offer a nicer beam.
Coast was simply the USA distributor for Led Lenser.
Led Lenser is a German Co., but the lights are made in China. So are the new Coast lights, for that matter.

If you like flood to throw lights(and I do), Led Lenser and Coast make some of the best readily available. As for price, like everything else, shop around.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

My main dislike for Led Lenser is that they have a patent on the aspheric focusing mechanism, which means they can keep other companies from making similarly focusable lights and keep their own prices high. Don't get me wrong, I believe they are well within their rights to do this, and there is nothing wrong or even unordinary about it. I just selfishly don't like it

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Originally Posted by rambo180

...
I have some ideas, but just wondering why people don't like Lensers? Yes I know they're expensive and only run on alkalines. Is it because they have the zoom (zoom wastes light?)? Any other reasons?

Actually the zoom is the only thing on an LED Lenser that makes the light stand out. Apart from the zoom, LED Lensers have the features of a typical $10 budget light. The problem is the zoom alone is just not enough to justify paying 4x, 5x or even 10x the price of a budget light.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Originally Posted by Cataract

...They do make some lower quality lights -the small ones- and there could be a larger number of people who tried those rather than the expensive ones...

My only current Lenser is a relatively small one. It's a AA-sized P5, with the flood to throw. Still not a cheap light as it cost around $50. I also have several older LED Lensers (that really impressed me at the time because my prior flashlight experience with with Maglites and Inovas).

For the features my P5 does have the light disappoints: single mode with no regulation, Type II anodize that looks great the day you buy the light but wears quickly, relatively dim light output, can't run on li-ion cells, and can't tailstand. Bigger and dimmer with less throw than a Sipik 68 that costs 1/5 as much. The Lenser does not impress.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I have the hokus fokus and the p2. I used to have the v2 i remember it having a led called callium or something like that i would not buy another led lenser because of the price and as i checked out the new double lense models (cant remember the model numbers) but they were quite crappy in terms of finish on the lights

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

I have an LED Lenser P7.

I've used it as a work light as an electrician for about 2 years. And it has seen lots of bad falls, some in excess of 9ft.
The battery holder broke off the tail cap after a short time, but the light still worked perfectly until a month or 2 ago when the high and low settings became a bit hit and miss. Sometimes it would select high on every click, rather than high or low.
It has also seen large amounts of dust and dirt.

I had an Inova X5(which i lost), and a T2 as work lights also. They feel much better built and withstood the same abuse.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Originally Posted by Fireclaw18

LED Lensers tend to be overpriced for what you get. For instance, LED Lensers have:
1. Many LED lensers are direct drive single mode lights with no regulation. This means they dim rapidly as the battery runs down.
2. The few regulated models tend to only have high-med-blinky modes... similar to what is found on many budget $10 lights and far inferior to the modes and UI found on high-end lights.
3. They have plastic optics and reflectors. Many other high-end lights have coated glass optics with metal reflectors.
4. Dated LEDs which produce far less light than the latest LEDs found in other lights. Here I suspect it may be a conscious decision on LED Lenser's part. Their main feature is the zoom which does better with older, but higher surface brightness, LEDs.
5. Type II anodizing which wears through rapidly and looks like crap after minimal use. Inferior to Type III hard anodize which is standard on other lights of similar price.
6. Switches that tend to wear out and break.
7. Does not tailstand.
8. Not waterproof (understandable, because making a zoom light waterproof causes issues with the zoom mechanism self-cycling due to vacuum pressure).
9. No support for li-ion batteries. A AA-sized LED Lenser only runs on AA.... it won't take 14500, etc. Not much of an issue for a typical user, but it is a big issue for flashlight enthusiasts found on these forums.

The only thing LED Lensers have that makes them stand out is the superior zoom mechanism. They hold the patents to it so this feature is unique. Without the zoom mechanism the rest of the light is really no better than a cheap budget light you can buy for 1/5 the price.

The LED Lenser zoom mechanism is fairly good. On my LED Lenser, light output does not noticeably diminish zooming from spot to flood in a ceiling bounce test. Pretty impressive considering that on all the cheap clones using aspheric lenses light output dims dramatically when doing the same. However, despite the good zoom mechanism, the rest of the light just isn't good enough to overcome the price. You can buy much better and more functional high end lights without the zoom for the same price.

For the price of an LED Lenser you can buy a different brand of light, that is waterproof, looks better, has a much longer lasting finish, has 4x the light output, many more modes, a much better UI, and can throw nearly as far. Why would you want to buy a Lenser?

Nicely summarised Fireclaw! Ya, admit that the zoom is kinda cool, its like having an inbuilt diffuser. You would think they would license it out to make some extra cash, but maybe they asking too much?

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Originally Posted by Kevinkw1

Nicely summarised Fireclaw! Ya, admit that the zoom is kinda cool, its like having an inbuilt diffuser. You would think they would license it out to make some extra cash, but maybe they asking too much?

Given the long list of other weaknesses, I'm actually not surprised they don't license it. It's their sole competitive advantage. It's might be ugly for them when the patent protection expires.

“The trouble with quotes on the internet is that it’s difficult to discern whether or not they are genuine.”
― Abraham Lincoln

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

On my cheap budget zoom lights like the Sipik 68 or Romisen RC29 the optic is a simple aspheric lens and nothing else. On my LED Lenser P5 it is a rather complicated engineered plastic lens that actually wraps completely around the emitter. When the simple aspheric lights are zoomed from flood to spot, half the lumens are lost inside the bezel resulting in a very dramatic decrease in overall output immediately noticeable in a ceiling bounce test. Amazingly, when I try the same test with my Lenser P5 there appears to be no noticeable reduction in output regardless of whether the lens is in flood or spot mode. The engineered optic seems to be quite a bit more efficient than a plain aspheric lens.

Still, even with the impressive zoom lens setup, Lensers have far too many disadvantages and are lacking too many features to stand up to other flashlights in the same price range. Informed flashlight owners tend to avoid LED Lensers with good reason.

Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Given the long list of other weaknesses, I'm actually not surprised they don't license it. It's their sole competitive advantage. It's might be ugly for them when the patent protection expires.

The funny thing is that they have such market penetration to the general public but! They are in so many "retail" stores like the "king of knives" and other "tobacco" stores in Australa. They must offer some awesome incentives to make these places become their dealers.

On the east coast of the yoosah. In the place where the bad drivers are.

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Re: Why the dislike for LED LENSER?

Well, I'm still in the process of planning on modding my P7 lenser...Lemme tell you, the wiring is a nightmare. (not really, but the internals of the light are pretty much garbage.) Until I can get a new driver and a way to make the current switch work with it and my xml to fit into the pill, I don't really touch this light anymore. The only real thing that sells this light was mentioned above, the "patented focus" lens. Aside from that...half the pill is freaking plastic! On top of that, all the other faults were mentioned above. However, If i can fit just the right emitter in there, this host may have the potential to be ranked among the top throw kings (an xml may be too large, so maybe an r5 or r2 will have to do )

The funny thing is that they have such market penetration to the general public but! They are in so many "retail" stores like the "king of knives" and other "tobacco" stores in Australa. They must offer some awesome incentives to make these places become their dealers.

Just to echo this, Tobacco stores here in the States carry junk knives and lights. Not sure if it's the same overseas, but remember MSRP doesn't always have much to do with what the retailer paid for the item.