I honestly don't think the Rangers could put together anything that would get that package

I respect our difference of opinion, agree to disagree.

It is asking Oilers to overpay, but only by the two lesser prospects Ds.
Staal + Girardi = 2 1a Ds. Stepan I fully admit is way less than RNH, but it is fair to bring up his strength is vision and pass distribution, so he'd thrive setting up Hall, Yakupov, Eberle.... and Boyle adds nicely to your bottom 6.

So yeah, RNH is the best player by far of them, and J Schultz could have potential to turn into another Paul Coffey, but he isn't that now.

There's no reason for the Rangers to go after that package to begin with.

I agree there's no pressing need, but I suggest there is a reason.

This deal would help with the cap. We take on 1 big salary, add JSchultz and the prospects I'm not sure they're on ELC yet.

It boldly gambles we replace Stepan w/Miller. And would have to be part of a bigger strategy. But moving 2 bigger salaries who are not snipers continues to set us up for highest competition now and an improved club later.

This deal would help with the cap. We take on 1 big salary, add JSchultz and the prospects I'm not sure they're on ELC yet.

It boldly gambles we replace Stepan w/Miller. And would have to be part of a bigger strategy. But moving 2 bigger salaries who are not snipers continues to set us up for highest competition now and an improved club later.

Be that as it may, we shall see...

Giving up two top-pairing d-men and a 2nd line center with 1st line upside for RNH and 3 guys who haven't sniffed NHL ice is crazy. No matter what your reasoning might be. It's a massive downgrade on the blue line for a less significant upgrade at center.

Giving up two top-pairing d-men and a 2nd line center with 1st line upside for RNH and 3 guys who haven't sniffed NHL ice is crazy. No matter what your reasoning might be. It's a massive downgrade on the blue line for a less significant upgrade at center.

I am sure the oilers wouldn't trade their first line center they have been missing for 15 years 2 years after they got him regardless of what they were getting back. Justin schultz and Marincin are great pieces that fit better into the age of the core as well. The things that the oilers are getting back are nice, but This is a robbing peter to pay paul deal for both teams.

"Chicago also has a large glut of defencemen (Seabrook, Keith, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Brookbank, Rozsival, Montador, Olsen and Clendenning"

I believe that Olsen has stunk it up in the AHL to the point of being a healthy scratch at times. Brookbank is set for a 6/7 defenseman role, and no one seems to know if Montador will ever play again....Clendening probably needs some more time in the AHL, since he's just two years out of college ... So, it doesn't look like Chicago has a ton of depth to play with.

They will likely just go with what they have until the deadline....then hopefully wise up and get a center.

For speculation, there is actually something to look at for every single team:
-Anaheim has Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf on expiring contracts. If they're not interested in sticking around and Anaheim falls out of contention, would they be moved at the deadline. Also, is Bobby Ryan happy after last summer's trade rumors.
-Boston's Adam McQuaid is out long-term, Boston likely won't want to go with 2 rookies (Hamilton and Krug) on the blueline so they might be interested in another.
-Buffalo has a glut of defencemen (Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sekera, Myers, Weber, Regehr, Sulzer, Pardy, McNabb) and will probably be interested in shaving money off their cap before next season.
-Calgary has a lot of defencemen (Wideman, Bouwmeester, Butler, Giordano, Sarich, Babchuk, D.Smith, B.Carson, T.Brodie) on their roster and might want to move one. Also their coach said he is bringing 30 players to camp because he wants lots of competition so veterans might hit the waiver wire.
-Carolina will likely add another forward.
-Chicago also has a large glut of defencemen (Seabrook, Keith, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Brookbank, Rozsival, Montador, Olsen and Clendenning (the latter of whom has looked really good in the AHL)) and will likely want to move one.
-Colorado has the ongoing Ryan O'Reilly saga (Unsigned, might be ticked off at Avalanche low-balling him, all conjecture at this point).
-Columbus is likely in rebuild mode and still don't look to me like a team with enough Top 6 forwards.
-Dallas has Jamie Benn unsigned. I know a lot of Oilers' fans have a pipe dream of him being disgruntled and being traded to Edmonton, though somehow not for any of Hall, Eberle, Schultz, RNH or Yakupov.
-Detroit still has a pretty sketchy defence and a glut of forwards (Emmerton, Abdelkader, Eaves (if healthy), Totoo, Miller, Mursak, Tatar, Nyquist, Brunner all competing for 3-4 spots).
-Edmonton likely has to add a tough veteran defenceman with Andy Sutton likely having to retire.
-Florida has Dmitry Kulikov as an unsigned RFA to go along with the ongoing Luongo saga.
-LA has Anze Kopitar out with a minor injury and, by my count, way too many NHL-calibre forwards (I'm counting 16 with legitimate NHL experience/qualifications).
-Minnesota has a lot of rookie forwards looking to crack the roster and not a lot of free slots. Also, they have to monitor Josh Harding's coping with MS.
-Montreal will be without Petteri Nokelainen to start camp, has PK Subban unsigned, the whole Scott Gomez issue (Their GM said he's a part of the team, so no buy-outs yet), and are said to be high on 2012 First Round pick Alex Galchenyuk and will have to make room in their Top 6 should he make the team.
-Nashville is believed to be interested in adding another forward and a defenceman. Also, you have Sergei Kostitsyn previously saying he wants to stay in Russia, so that will have to be dealt with.
-New Jersey has a surplus of NHL defencemen (Salvador, Greene, Tallinder, Volchenkov, Zidlicky, Fayne, Harrold, and Larsson) and a rather weak looking forward lineup.
-Islanders have the aforementioned Visnovsky situation and will have to gauge whether Rick DiPietro is healthy enough to back up Nabokov.
-Rangers have Michael Del Zotto unsigned and the whole Wade Redden making $6+ million in the minors thing.
-Ottawa is really thin on the blueline with Jared Cowen out for the season, and Mike Lundin currently hurt with an injury. Also, there's the Gonchar rumor.
-Philaldelphia was rumored to be interested in another defenceman all summer long. And are they really going with Mike Leighton as their back-up?
-Phoenix is developing a glut of defencemen with Yandle, Michalek, OEL, Klesla, Morris, Schlemko, Rundblad, Summers and Gormley.
-Pittsburgh has the Gonchar rumors, as well as a deep pool of prospects on defence (Bortuzzo, Strait, Despres, Sneep, Morrow, Samuelsson, Dumoulin, Matta, Pouliot, Harrington) and may want to start making space for them to come up.
-San Jose has a handful of unsigned depth RFAs (Sheppard, Kennedy, Petrecki) and a seeming glut on defence with Boyle, Stuart, Burns, Vlasic, Murray, Braun, Demers. Personally, I also feel like they're one Top 9 forward short.
-St. Louis has a lot of forwards under contract (15 with significant NHL experience by my count, as well as 203 rookies possibly ready to jump in) and look to be maybe a Top 6 defenceman short.-Tampa's a total mystery to me as it looks like they have 18-19 forwards who could be on their NHL roster and 10-12 defencemen, as well.
-Toronto has the ongoing Luongo mess, an unsigned Cody Franson, a weak goaltending tandem (Sorry folks, until I see James Reimer back in 2010-11 form, I'm not sold), and an injured Jake Gardiner to deal with.
-Vancouver has the Luongo saga, an injured and possibly disgruntled Ryan Kesler to deal with (Team says he's close to being back, his agent says he'll more likely be back close to the playoffs, and a Vancouver Province writer speculates their may be dischord between him and Vigneault), and a handful of players making too much money for what they bring to the team (Booth, Raymond, Ballard).
-Washington has the new wrinkle of Tom Poti thinking he'll be medically-cleared which is a drag on the cap ($2.9 million owed this year) if he's healthy but not good; and a spot needing to be cleared if he's healthy and able. Also, you end up with 8-9 NHL defencemen on the roster.
-Winnipeg has the (quite possibly made-up) Kane saga to deal with, as well as an injury to Zach Bogosian.

So, it should be an interesting couple of weeks coming up.

To clear your mystery a little bit:

Our top6 and one 3rd-line spot are set, with 6 guys and some AHL guys fighting for the remaining 5 places. So expect 1 or 2 of the 6 either on waivers or in the pressbox.

On D: We have 8 d-men right now (Ohlund is injured long-term) and Boucher prefers to dress 7d so our D is set with one guy in the pressbox right now.

I am sure the oilers wouldn't trade their first line center they have been missing for 15 years 2 years after they got him regardless of what they were getting back. Justin schultz and Marincin are great pieces that fit better into the age of the core as well. The things that the oilers are getting back are nice, but This is a robbing peter to pay paul deal for both teams.

1. I don't disagree w/what you are saying, I was just saying in response to reasonable and fair criticism, that the deal works for both and is somewhat balanced. {I'm conceding that Oilers throw in Gernat and Marincin, but in light of what they would be getting from NY, it would not be unreasonable to demand that above and beyond RNH + J. Schultz, IMO.}

2. I agree it is robbing Peter to pay Paul, 2x, but could still be worth it.
For Edmonton, instance balance.
For NY I am gambling Miller fits in w/speedy Ws and is ok, and we are fine at F.

I admit we are momentarily thinner at top of the D particularly, going from stellar and deep to good, but less depth.

There is a huge gamble in what J. Schultz would do defensively. Offensively, he would help resolve a lot of headaches.

However, besides usual Sather ability to get us a temporary D from somewhere, adding cheap Gernat and Marincin is solid move for by next year. On the D side it is going back roughly 4 now to come back barely 1 now, but with upside from improving J. Schultz and Gernat and Marincin the balance is made up in reasonably short time.

And the offense is improved.
Acquiring RNH would create flexibility as to Brad Richards.

3. I don't agree with the saying when neither side is happy with a deal, it was inherently a good or fair deal or a win win for everyone.

This was clearly uneven, but I believe the end results on balance were good for both teams.

In conclusion, there is no consensus right answer; an argument can be made both for and against for both teams, both of which gained and lost.

So, far for actual rumors we have.
-Luongo to Toronto as close or done deal. Also, everything else about Luongo (Not being traded, only wanting to be dealt to Florida, maybe bought out).
-That Winnipeg wants to move Evander Kane, based on bogus trade rumors from last summer and Kane being a dork who takes pictures of himself with stacks of cash while he and his union bros. are out of work.
-Edmonton making a "wow" trade at the end of the lock-out, per an Edmonton radio guy.
-Bruce Garrioch has Pittsburgh interested in re-acquiring Sergei Gonchar.

For speculation, there is actually something to look at for every single team:
-Anaheim has Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf on expiring contracts. If they're not interested in sticking around and Anaheim falls out of contention, would they be moved at the deadline. Also, is Bobby Ryan happy after last summer's trade rumors.
-Boston's Adam McQuaid is out long-term, Boston likely won't want to go with 2 rookies (Hamilton and Krug) on the blueline so they might be interested in another.
-Buffalo has a glut of defencemen (Ehrhoff, Leopold, Sekera, Myers, Weber, Regehr, Sulzer, Pardy, McNabb) and will probably be interested in shaving money off their cap before next season.
-Calgary has a lot of defencemen (Wideman, Bouwmeester, Butler, Giordano, Sarich, Babchuk, D.Smith, B.Carson, T.Brodie) on their roster and might want to move one. Also their coach said he is bringing 30 players to camp because he wants lots of competition so veterans might hit the waiver wire.
-Carolina will likely add another forward.
-Chicago also has a large glut of defencemen (Seabrook, Keith, Oduya, Hjalmarsson, Leddy, Brookbank, Rozsival, Montador, Olsen and Clendenning (the latter of whom has looked really good in the AHL)) and will likely want to move one.
-Colorado has the ongoing Ryan O'Reilly saga (Unsigned, might be ticked off at Avalanche low-balling him, all conjecture at this point).
-Columbus is likely in rebuild mode and still don't look to me like a team with enough Top 6 forwards.
-Dallas has Jamie Benn unsigned. I know a lot of Oilers' fans have a pipe dream of him being disgruntled and being traded to Edmonton, though somehow not for any of Hall, Eberle, Schultz, RNH or Yakupov.
-Detroit still has a pretty sketchy defence and a glut of forwards (Emmerton, Abdelkader, Eaves (if healthy), Totoo, Miller, Mursak, Tatar, Nyquist, Brunner all competing for 3-4 spots).
-Edmonton likely has to add a tough veteran defenceman with Andy Sutton likely having to retire.
-Florida has Dmitry Kulikov as an unsigned RFA to go along with the ongoing Luongo saga.
-LA has Anze Kopitar out with a minor injury and, by my count, way too many NHL-calibre forwards (I'm counting 16 with legitimate NHL experience/qualifications).
-Minnesota has a lot of rookie forwards looking to crack the roster and not a lot of free slots. Also, they have to monitor Josh Harding's coping with MS.
-Montreal will be without Petteri Nokelainen to start camp, has PK Subban unsigned, the whole Scott Gomez issue (Their GM said he's a part of the team, so no buy-outs yet), and are said to be high on 2012 First Round pick Alex Galchenyuk and will have to make room in their Top 6 should he make the team.
-Nashville is believed to be interested in adding another forward and a defenceman. Also, you have Sergei Kostitsyn previously saying he wants to stay in Russia, so that will have to be dealt with.
-New Jersey has a surplus of NHL defencemen (Salvador, Greene, Tallinder, Volchenkov, Zidlicky, Fayne, Harrold, and Larsson) and a rather weak looking forward lineup.
-Islanders have the aforementioned Visnovsky situation and will have to gauge whether Rick DiPietro is healthy enough to back up Nabokov.
-Rangers have Michael Del Zotto unsigned and the whole Wade Redden making $6+ million in the minors thing.
-Ottawa is really thin on the blueline with Jared Cowen out for the season, and Mike Lundin currently hurt with an injury. Also, there's the Gonchar rumor.
-Philaldelphia was rumored to be interested in another defenceman all summer long. And are they really going with Mike Leighton as their back-up?
-Phoenix is developing a glut of defencemen with Yandle, Michalek, OEL, Klesla, Morris, Schlemko, Rundblad, Summers and Gormley.
-Pittsburgh has the Gonchar rumors, as well as a deep pool of prospects on defence (Bortuzzo, Strait, Despres, Sneep, Morrow, Samuelsson, Dumoulin, Matta, Pouliot, Harrington) and may want to start making space for them to come up.
-San Jose has a handful of unsigned depth RFAs (Sheppard, Kennedy, Petrecki) and a seeming glut on defence with Boyle, Stuart, Burns, Vlasic, Murray, Braun, Demers. Personally, I also feel like they're one Top 9 forward short.
-St. Louis has a lot of forwards under contract (15 with significant NHL experience by my count, as well as 203 rookies possibly ready to jump in) and look to be maybe a Top 6 defenceman short.
-Tampa's a total mystery to me as it looks like they have 18-19 forwards who could be on their NHL roster and 10-12 defencemen, as well.
-Toronto has the ongoing Luongo mess, an unsigned Cody Franson, a weak goaltending tandem (Sorry folks, until I see James Reimer back in 2010-11 form, I'm not sold), and an injured Jake Gardiner to deal with.
-Vancouver has the Luongo saga, an injured and possibly disgruntled Ryan Kesler to deal with (Team says he's close to being back, his agent says he'll more likely be back close to the playoffs, and a Vancouver Province writer speculates their may be dischord between him and Vigneault), and a handful of players making too much money for what they bring to the team (Booth, Raymond, Ballard).
-Washington has the new wrinkle of Tom Poti thinking he'll be medically-cleared which is a drag on the cap ($2.9 million owed this year) if he's healthy but not good; and a spot needing to be cleared if he's healthy and able. Also, you end up with 8-9 NHL defencemen on the roster.
-Winnipeg has the (quite possibly made-up) Kane saga to deal with, as well as an injury to Zach Bogosian.

It is asking Oilers to overpay, but only by the two lesser prospects Ds.
Staal + Girardi = 2 1a Ds. Stepan I fully admit is way less than RNH, but it is fair to bring up his strength is vision and pass distribution, so he'd thrive setting up Hall, Yakupov, Eberle.... and Boyle adds nicely to your bottom 6.

So yeah, RNH is the best player by far of them, and J Schultz could have potential to turn into another Paul Coffey, but he isn't that now.

So, that was my thinking.

Again, I respect our difference of opinion, agree to disagree.

The Oilers are not trading RNH or J Schultz . Schultz choose us over the Rangers and pretty well every team in the NHL . He been more then we could have expected so far . Plus what kind of message do this sent to UFA when we are trying to sign one ?

The Oilers are not trading RNH or J Schultz . Schultz choose us over the Rangers and pretty well every team in the NHL . He been more then we could have expected so far . Plus what kind of message do this sent to UFA when we are trying to sign one ?

A reasonable opinion, and as to message I think that has to go in context. If Babe Ruth, or in hockey parallel Bobby Orr/Wayne Gretzky can be traded, ANYONE can be traded.

If you are being shown the door --- regardless of whether or not its deserved ---- that's one thing.

But if agreed Malkin was the most uber-elite and top player in the game today, and a deal sent ANY player in a package for him, that could not possibly be a slight.

The return from NY would be nothing for JSchulz to consider a slight. It would just be a realization that with one fell swoop, a matching L-R set of a 1a top pair of All Star Ds, + additional Fs to provide instant balance, was added for one superstar, one potential rookie super star, and two promising prospects not yet ready.

Both pre and especially post Yakupov being drafted, we have had extended threads for several months about one top Edmonton F for one top NY D, with various names inserted. There was no consensus agreement. There seemed to be a line drawn with Oilers wanting more than only Staal or Girardi, and Rangers open to something more, but unwilling to give both.

This would address that, but as I said, it is open to interpretation more so than usual, because it is not clearly win-win for both, but with each team winning and losing big.

FYI ---
I point out my reply in part to Caley which I quote here:

Quote:

Dallas has Jamie Benn unsigned. I know a lot of Oilers' fans have a pipe dream of him being disgruntled and being traded to Edmonton, though somehow not for any of Hall, Eberle, Schultz, RNH or Yakupov. [ icon lost in copy] ....
-Edmonton likely has to add a tough veteran defenceman with Andy Sutton likely having to retire.

What this says is Oilers have to give to get, and they may feel pushed to do something more if Sutton hangs em up.

I an NOT saying Oil MUST do this.
Only saying that in the context of their immediate position, Girardi + Staal instantly does a hell of a lot, along with Stepan + Brian Boyle. Of course the price for both would have to be RNH + JSchultz, + the prospect Ds.

It's very simple.
Oilers are young. They can wait for their assets to develop and contend shortly when the are a powerhouse in the West, or they can lose some overall potential but get stronger immediately and contend for a cup now.

The Rangers would be playing with fire, because they improve in other areas while weakening some of their D.

My point is it is a prudent gamble, but not a gimme, for either side.

Arguably, with new found balance Edmonton is better off long term NOT making this deal, and better off short term making it.

For Rangers it is a higher risk depending upon what they can do short term to have enough D this year this cup run. I think they have/can pick up enough to make it worthwhile, but that's just IMO.