On the one hand I wish the gameplay was more challenging, at least on the level of LoZ:WW and LOZ:TP.

This is weird to me. I saw the Game Over screen in PH much more than I ever did in WW or TP. PH isn't remotely challenging but I still thought both WW and TP were far, far easier.

Kevin,I'm a bit baffled that you found it more challenging than WW or TP. So far I've only seen 'Game Over' once and I'm about 1/3 of the way through. What I've found that much easier in comparison to WW or TP are boss battles. I've especially found the bosses that guard the spirits to be push overs, which isn't what I would have expected. In fact I found most of the minibosses in TP to even be harder than them. I've only been through the Ocean Temple timed dungeons twice, but I found those to be quite easy too. The game seems to emphasize puzzle solving over quick reflex game mechanics, and I generally find those type of games easier.

I have found the odd ocean conflicts to be a bit challenging, but most of that was related to struggling with the DS stylus at the particular time. So unless the last 2/3's of the game are that much more difficult, it definitely seems easy . My opinion is no doubt influenced with my kids experiences, and they're most definitely having a much easier time with it than WW or TP.

[Edit] Another thought; I've found all of the above 3 so much easier than LoZ:LttP or LoZ:OOT that it's not even funny.

Kevin,I'm a bit baffled that you found it more challenging than WW or TP. So far I've only seen 'Game Over' once and I'm about 1/3 of the way through. What I've found that much easier in comparison to WW or TP are boss battles. I've especially found the bosses that guard the spirits to be push overs, which isn't what I would have expected. In fact I found most of the minibosses in TP to even be harder than them. I've only been through the Ocean Temple timed dungeons twice, but I found those to be quite easy too. The game seems to emphasize puzzle solving over quick reflex game mechanics, and I generally find those type of games easier.

Yeah, I haven't ever died on a boss (never did on WW and TP outside of the final boss battles either). Generally if I die in PH it's on the high seas since you don't get nearly as much health as you do on land and some of those pirate ships with cannonballs have done a number on me and I believe that I died on a sea miniboss or two. I would also say the puzzles in PH were more challenging than WW or TP, mainly because many were using all new mechanics for the series.

Don't get me wrong- PH is still easy but TP and WW were such complete and total cakewalks that it's almost not possible to be easier unless the game is called Okami.

There was definitely a move to make Zelda games easier after OoT and MM. I think Miyamoto even went on record as saying that he was frustrated that so many people missed half of the game because they got too frustrated at parts of OoT.

I don't think I ever saw the Game Over screen in Wind Waker or Twilight Princess. In this game, I saw it quite often, but never on a boss battle or anything. The times I saw it were during the boating portions.

Damn, I was afraid of that. Hmm, save the game or find a different one for the flight...

Unless that flight is really, really long, I don't think you will finish the game on the flight.

It'll last the flight if I stop now, but if I keep playing this next week leading up to the flight I'll likely get to the end before I even take off.

I played it last weekend while flying back from NY. Played it for part of the White Plains-Chicago leg and most of the Chicago-Vancouver leg; also played it a bit at O'hare airport. All of that playtime got me about 33% of the way through. I was admittedly tired since I boarded my 1st flight at 6:30 am, but at most I would have made it about 1/2 way through if I was well rested and had all of my wits about me.

I am sorry to say that I am very frustrated with this game. Ever since that last time through the timed temple of pain my outlook has soured. I am going through it for what I hope is the last time, and spent most of the afternoon improving my time to the halfway point. I just hate replaying these levels again and I hate the damned time limit. I quit since I don't feel like messing with the triangle, square, circle puzzle again right now. This was an AWFUL design choice by Nintendo.

As an aside, I have just about had it with that damned salvage mini-game as well. I seem to be getting worse at it. I swear I can't figure out the controls for it. I have seen my grappling hook continue to list off to the left even though I have the control doohickey all the way to the right side. Very frustrating. The charm of sailing as also worn thin with me. Coupling all this with the much simpler, less fulfilling temples and my opinion of this Zelda has dropped a lot.

I am sorry to say that I am very frustrated with this game. Ever since that last time through the timed temple of pain my outlook has soured. I am going through it for what I hope is the last time, and spent most of the afternoon improving my time to the halfway point. I just hate replaying these levels again and I hate the damned time limit. I quit since I don't feel like messing with the triangle, square, circle puzzle again right now. This was an AWFUL design choice by Nintendo.

If this is your first time through getting to the halfway point, this is not your last time into the temple. If you have already been through the temple to register a half-way point, you can just pick right up from there by stepping into the yellow light at the entrance.

If this is your first time through getting to the halfway point, this is not your last time into the temple. If you have already been through the temple to register a half-way point, you can just pick right up from there by stepping into the yellow light at the entrance.

No. I got to the half way point on my previous trip through. I just decided today that I needed to get there with a better time. It was that last trip though that I got really annoyed with this temple and now I am doing it for the last time and I didn't even get by the part I had already played before getting irritated and quitting. I may try to tackle it again tonight. I swear, this whole temple has really soured me on the rest of the game.

No. I got to the half way point on my previous trip through. I just decided today that I needed to get there with a better time. It was that last trip though that I got really annoyed with this temple and now I am doing it for the last time and I didn't even get by the part I had already played before getting irritated and quitting. I may try to tackle it again tonight. I swear, this whole temple has really soured me on the rest of the game.

I agree that it wasn't a very good design decision. It bothered me a good bit (mentioned it in my other posts in this thread), but I finally just accepted it and moved on.

Well, I finally got the last sea chart, so I hope that means I am done with this abortion. There were a couple of chests I didn't figure out how to open and there was this big door at the end I didn't have any clue how to open, so I fear I may have to return at some point. For now I can go to the NE quadrant and actually enjoy the game again.

Finished the game. The last island and temple were a lot of fun. I even didn't mind the last trip through the Hell Temple with the phantom sword. I actually think the Ocean King Temple would have been a lot of fun without the time limit and the forced repetition of levels. I still dislike that salvage minigame and its floaty controls.

Overall I give it a B+. I greatly prefer Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. I put this one on par with Minish Cap albeit with much better graphics. It was no Link to The Past, but then again what is?

Stayed up WAY too late playing this and I am tired but I will add this: Controlling the boomerang with the stylus makes the boomerang more fun than in any other Zelda game. It rules.

This game may cripple my right hand though. It's very fatigued.

I highly suggest one of those Nintendo pen stylus's. I got a couple for Brain Age 2 and it's the best gaming thing I've invested in in quite some time.

I was at a Microsoft event a while back (I think it was for the Office 2003 event), and one of the pens they were giving away switched between ballpoint and a plastic PDA nub. Really great pen... too bad someone swiped it off my desk a few years ago

Finished Phantom Hourglass earlier in the week. It was my first experience with the game and, if anyone's interested, it holds up extremely well.

I expected to hate the stylus-centric controls but they're amazingly well implemented. Link moves with all the precision of an analog stick -- maybe even more -- he slashes his sword exactly how and when I want, tosses items exactly where I tap, and using different items becomes second nature almost immediately. The only problems I had was a tendancy to release the shoulder button before tossing the boomerang, which was really a me-problem, and that as others have already pointed out, swirling the stylus to perform combat rolls only worked one out every four attempts. How fortunate it was a totally unnecessary move.

For reference, I really liked things *about* Wind Waker -- the art style, the exploration, the amazing finale -- but the game had some really irksome interface problems that damaged my experience with it. Whether it was pulling out Link's stupid baton to change the direction of the wind, looking up one of his other rhythmic incantations, or reassigning which items I had assigned to which buttons for the fifteenth time, it felt like I was spending fully half my play time navigating pause menus to get anything done. Phantom Hourglass addresses all those problems: your new ship is steam-powered so it just goes where you want, fast-travel is unlocked fairly early in the game, and although you can only have one item equipped at a time, swapping between them is done with a flick of the wrist.

The ability to write notes directly on the map was a goddamn stroke of genius. No, I wasn't real enthusiastic about delving into the Ocean King's timed temple for the fourth or fifth time either, but by the end of the game, my hand-written iconography showing me how to hurry through each floor in the minimum number of steps made that map uniquely mine. I really hope they bring that functionality forward into whatever 3DS or Wii U games they've got planned.

I'd also like to highlight how much I loved the game's willingness to play against some of the more well-worn Zelda conventions. Link's habit of holding new items high above his head for no reason is spoofed for laughs on more than one occasion, and I enjoyed it every single time.

Graphically? It's serviceable, I guess, but even the cel-shaded aesthetic can't quite mask those dithered, slightly-jittery PlayStation-era textures. The game plays great which is the most important thing, but I can't help but notice how much better the GBA version of Link to the Past looks in comparison. The DS even has to skip a lot of the little graphical touches that made Wind Waker so distinctive, things like the curly-cue smoke and dynamic lighting. Again, bring on the 3DS era of portable Zelda games!

In the balance, Phantom Hourglass is in no danger of dethroning Twilight Princess or Majora's Mask as my favorite games in the series, but it's a much better experience than The Minish Cap, the last exclusively-portable Zelda I played. Definitely worth checking out...even five years later.

You need to go out and get the GBA version of A Link to the Past. It's one of the best (if not the best) Zelda games ever and works perfectly on a handheld.

+1. Its the only Zelda game I've every completed.

You know, it never occured to me before reading this, but I've completed *almost* every Zelda game I've played. Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Minish Cap, and now Phantom Hourglass.

The only exception is Zelda II: Link's Adventure which I played all the way to the final dungeon -twice- only to have the save data go corrupt and destroy all my progress, both times. Frankly, I consider that "finished," even if I was denied my chance to beat the final boss.

Never played the original Legend of Zelda,Link's Awakening or Oracle of Ages / Seasons, though.

Quote from: Kevin Grey on October 09, 2007, 01:15:08 PM

I was also pleased to see that they fixed the "economy" issues that plagued WW and TP. Eliminating the wallet was long overdue and lots of items were so expensive that I could quite easily go from flush to cash to almost broke.

Yeah, I forgot to mention: the economy was especially well done. I'm obsessive about cutting grass, smashing pots, and dredging up treasure, and I was saving up for items and upgrades right up through the end of the game. Some of the capacity upgrades are admittedly pretty optional, but it was refreshing to have a Zelda game where rupees retain their value throughout the adventure.

Try Spirit Tracks. I liked it better than Phantom Hourglass because you don't have to go wandering through the same temple over and over, and while there are less tools, each of them remains useful throughout the game.

Try Spirit Tracks. I liked it better than Phantom Hourglass because you don't have to go wandering through the same temple over and over, and while there are less tools, each of them remains useful throughout the game.

Yeah, I've already played up to the start of the second temple. I don't usually play direct sequels back-to-back this way, but Phantom Hourglass left me wanting more portable Zelda and I was curious to see what refinements they made to the formula. It's really neat so far: the Spirit Flute is a cool addition -- definitely better than the Wind Waker baton -- and rolling with a double-tap of the stylus is infinitely more precise.

And who knew Princess Zelda was so funny? Her dialogue is great! Personality-wise, she might be the best sidekick in the series

I know Spirit Tracks was a fairly unpopular entry, though. Andrew Reiner famously considers it the worst Zelda outside the CD-i trilogy. It'll be interesting to see if it takes a weird turn at some point because, so far, I'm really enjoying it!