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I do not follow any man (other than Christ), hence my screen name. But I am certainly not opposed to listening to what Enyart has to say on any subject. If I agree with him on a subject that is good. If I don't agree with him on a subject I still find that discovery to be positive, because he is very articulate and it certainly can't hurt me to hear his dissenting opinions.

Oh and I don't agree with csuguy's claim that "only followers of Enyart took it seriously". I think csuguy was making more of a hyperbole, and saying that some Enyart followers might have taken it more seriously and without much critical analyses. That kind of faithful following tends to be much more prevalent with a captive audience.

Actually, the program fails to accomplish its only real purpose: demonstrate the finiteness of man's creativity. (Feature #4 in the OP). Also, being in black and white only, it fails Feature #2 - displaying the pages from any and every book.

I just want to know if can it actually show you the code for a program, and how that would be useful without knowing the way in which different functions are connected, eg. Pascal library (compiled to a dll) inside a Java wrapper (JNI), or the use of jitter.

A lot of programs include open source, so it's not the code that one needs to find in order to make your own comparable program, it's how they access the native functions.

So, we have a process which creates a huge amount of variation between images, and you have to select those with meaning, discarding the others. Sounds like a model for evolution by random mutation and natural selection.

Yes, we all know that evolution needs an intelligent agent carefully selecting only the best changes in order for it to work.

Yes, we all know that evolution needs an intelligent agent carefully selecting only the best changes in order for it to work.

I think you need reading glasses, Stripe.

The lack of the ability to properly compete for resources is, of course, sufficient selection to weed you out of the gene pool. No intelligence is necessary to remove the slowest rabbit in a field; only a fox.

The lack of the ability to properly compete for resources is, of course, sufficient selection to weed you out of the gene pool. No intelligence is necessary to remove the slowest rabbit in a field; only a fox.

He's a troll. Don't waste your time.

If wealth was the inevitable result of hard work and enterprise, every woman in Africa would be a millionaire.
--George Monbiot

Facts are meaningless. You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
--Homer J. Simpson

I just want to know if can it actually show you the code for a program, and how that would be useful without knowing the way in which different functions are connected, eg. Pascal library (compiled to a dll) inside a Java wrapper (JNI), or the use of jitter.

A lot of programs include open source, so it's not the code that one needs to find in order to make your own comparable program, it's how they access the native functions.

keep shinin

jerm

It will inevitably produces image of the source code for any and every program, albeit in pieces. However, you have no way of knowing which images to connect to form which program. And the vast majority of what this program produces will be incoherent jibberish.

If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

It will inevitably produces image of the source code for any and every program, albeit in pieces. However, you have no way of knowing which images to connect to form which program. And the vast majority of what this program produces will be incoherent jibberish.

well it sounds like it has a use as an visual art form (by showing in picture form what symmetry programers create) but as you say useless to use for the connections and that is essentially what makes most programs unique that borrow source code from others.

it's sounds like a simple way to chain functions together (like Usine or MAX/MSP) in a GUI, if the pictures themselves could retain a label of some sort of it's function, eg. string, module, library etc.

well it sounds like it has a use as an visual art form (by showing in picture form what symmetry programers create) but as you say useless to use for the connections and that is essentially what makes most programs unique that borrow source code from others.

it's sounds like a simple way to chain functions together (like Usine or MAX/MSP) in a GUI, if the pictures themselves could retain a label of some sort of it's function, eg. string, module, library etc.

keep shinin

jerm

The program has no way of evaluating its output. It doesn't know the difference between source code, a comic, a sheet of music, or the gibberish that it produces (which it is mostly gibberish). If it could, however, THEN it would be a pretty impressive program

Last edited by csuguy; December 2nd, 2012 at 04:09 PM.

If you have material wealth, but do not give to those in need, then the love of God is not in you. Whatever you have done for the least of these you have done for HIM. To give to the poor is to lend to the LORD.

The lack of the ability to properly compete for resources is, of course, sufficient selection to weed you out of the gene pool. No intelligence is necessary to remove the slowest rabbit in a field; only a fox.

What the program seems to provide is a modern accessible way for Open Theists (or anyone else) to consider the implications of human finitude. There's nothing groundbreaking about that, but if it facilitates an epiphany that a person would otherwise not obtain, it serves a useful purpose.

The theory behind the program is that it can display anything that can be displayed. Through a simple extension of the thought experiment, one can examine the implications of a three dimensional model of the program. Extending further, one is opened to the possibility that all human experience is finite. Thus, all human experience present and future is computable by God.

Even so, this would not imply that all human experience is determinable by God. Knowing all theoretical possibilities does not alone grant one the ability to know which temporal sequence will be actualized. The key issue is whether some occurrences are random in relation to God's knowledge, or whether all follow strictly determinable behavior.

I believe the latter, but the former is not excluded by this thought experiment.

James 3:17But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.