I'm sorry for the bad subjice t but what do you say when your so sorry for what you did when you wer young. What does one say when someone is too drunk or high to figure out what 's reallywrong. why is it that I have to feel bad. What do I have to do to feel normal, what do I have to do to feel forgiven. why can't I feel normal. all I want is it to all disappear. I'm just sorry for everyone I hurt.

I"m really sorry for all I have done to anyone, I didn't want to do what I did. It;s not normal to have done what I did but I'm having problems wiht trying to staighten out what I did. All I need is for somone to say that it all never happened.

Hey bud I wish I could say it never happened, but that is not possible. What I can say is be careful when thinking about normal. as survivors we try to make the world fit into what we know, into our "reality" and many times that leads us to do things that we later recognize as hurtful and even terrible. yet as we look back honestly at that moment in time we never meant to harm anyone. it is a difficult thing to live with for sure. I know that most times I can forgive any injustice against me, but things I do or have done I find impossible to be free from. I think you are probably very normal coming from your reality man. Try to look at yourself as you might look at a little boy who you knew had your experiences. It is a lot easier then to tell the inner child its OK.

_________________________
Either I will find a way, or I will make one.Philip Sidney

nine fucken years that I know about and in some ways I'm glad that I don't remember my life before 10. I don't know how others get past their past but I'll look at kids going onto school buses, playing in schoolyards or even just in front of their houses and I can fall apart. It was just so part of my life I don't know how I could not feel guilty of what I was doing back then. I had hoped that I could have taken my secrets to my grave but reality caught up to me three years ago and there was no more hiding. From then on it has been sort of downhill trying to figure out how and why I did what I did. It is true we can never go back and take a different road but really all I want to happen is that it would not haunt me so bad. I start having thoughts if the friends I had that didn't make it here were not better off than I am today.

You are correct, if I could look at myself objectively but how can someone do that when all he sees in himself was as a kid that was a little hustler, whore and prostitute to put it nicely? I could live with that if it would just leave me alone so I can get on with my life. There are so many guys here that have really had a bad time as kids so it's only natural for them to have the pain that they have from their abuse, sometimes a lifetime of pain.

I look at my avatar and I see my boyfriend's head on my shoulder (I have the full picture which is not displayable) and my T says that the stats show that he is most probably dead. We were both in the game and worked for the same guy. We both loved him as a father because he took care of us like the fathers we never had for one reason or another. But that father pimped us both out, along with other kids, but we both still loved him (I still do). The sick thoughts I have is whether my bf is better off dead or alive. Another good friend of mine who was beaten brutally by his father ran away to California when we were 15. From what I found out was that he committed suicide when he was around 20. Again the thoughts go back to if he isn't better dead or alive. For someone to think like that is sick, the whole thing is sick. Having the same kind of thoughts if it wasn't better if I ended up like them is also sick.

If you saw a child misbehaving and acting out in ways you saw were unhealthy, would you feel concern for the child's well being, and inquire as to how/why that child is behaving that way? Or would you blame the child and scold them endlessly?

You have a very big heart, and a very humble one as well. I suspect you would answer that you would be concerned for the child's well being while addressing the child's behavior.

You ask "why do I have to feel this way?" You don't. No one is forcing you to. You clearly haven't forgiven yourself for acting out when you were a child.

You were but a small child, needing help, but not getting it. Don't blame yourself ... especially don't blame yourself for things you did as a naive child.

You can free yourself from this. It is your own judgment that keeps you where you are.

...but how can someone do that when all he sees in himself was as a kid that was a little hustler, whore and prostitute to put it nicely? I could live with that if it would just leave me alone so I can get on with my life.

Jeff - you were my first real friend when I came here. Few have earned my trust as you have - few do I feel safe enough to fully share my story (which I have still not published). I love your avatar in part because I know what that shoulder feels like - you have given it to me so many times. You know me here better than most. So perhaps that will lend some credibility to what I say personally.

You have forgiven so many. Even sFather - who probably set you up for some of the real bad stuff you experienced - got a pass from you to a big extent. You have a wonderful, loving, big heart. I spent some time there - I know. And that's why it hurts so much to see that there is one person you have not forgiven. You.

Forgiveness is like an Oxygen mask on an airliner. You first must affix the mask to yourself before placing it on others. So how can you truly forgive another person without first forgiving yourself? If a person cannot forgive himself, he lacks the most fundamental credentials of personal integrity in the area of forgiveness to justify him dispensing it to others.

The paradox is that a lot of what I learned about forgiveness was from you. I am a different man today than I was when I met you, in part because you taught me so much. I learned that forgiveness is the only healthy way to recover. Forgiving does not mean that anger is unjustified. It is. It does not mean that what we are forgiving was OK. It wasn't. It means that we can only reclaim true peace by letting go of our anger and hatred. And that inner peace with ourselves is precisely what was robbed from us.

It's not Pollyanna. It's not being weak. It's not some hollow religious precept (I am quite secular). It's not being easy on those who hurt you. And it's certainly not easy to do. Many people will never get to the point where they even see forgiveness as making any sense at all. I suspect they still see it as a simple binary choice that requires some prejustification in order to dispense.

My wish is that you can find a way to forgive you. You need to take yourself back into your heart. I wish I could help you do that - but all I can do is see it, and tell you that. You were just a kid. Just a kid. So was I. So was everyone else here. And if you can't forgive yourself - how can you forgive me?

All I can do is reiterate what has already been said. Never will we forget what was done to us. It is impossible. Sometimes I wish my spirit were free as well, thinking I might be better off soaring among the clouds, but then I remember life. And the things of good that are around me. And the people that care about me today. I think they would miss me immensely… I know I would miss out on what they offer.

As far as forgiveness for ones self is concerned, I am almost there. Almost to the point were I can clearly and calmly declare that "I forgive me". It is as Erik stated…. forgiveness doesn't mean we forget. It doesn't mean we are weak. It means we have learned the lessons life has placed in front of us. Sometimes its hard to pass the test, but really, we already have.

You were a kid. A child. A child someone used and it wasn't your fault. Never was, never will be. Be angry. And begin to love yourself for the things you have accomplished against all odds. That's what I began to do. I still sit in the quiet for long periods and thank God for allowing me to have achieved what I have so far- and there is more to come!- against all odds. My life is changing as I share with you because each day I am realizing more and more what a special spirit and person I am. Yeah, man, they used us, they raped us as kids, even as an adult, but fuck them. Remind yourself how twisted and perverted someone has to be to have sex with an underage child. It wasn't your fault.

And in reading your posts, I just want you to know that you have helped me in so many ways. Share these feelings. Get them out there. As often as you need… and the change will come. I am proud of where you are heading, man. I don't know why it has to be so rough to get there, but thats just the way it is. I find it blinking exciting and you will one day soon forgive yourself. You will.

I have to sleep on what you all said here. I have to see if telling what has jelled the last 2 months will explain why I wonder if it wasn't better to end up like my friends. I just couldn't leave you all thinking that I don't read what you all say. It means a lot to me.

Eric, you sound relaxed compared to when you worked for that vet, I know it's been some time since we really talked but I didn't want to barge back into your life unwelcome.

Sort of weird but I had to say it. My mother would just start swinging and ask questions afterwards or afterwards really didn't matter. I was always to blame that's why I never amounted to anything . It's a shame that the bitch doesn't even feel good with her grandchildren or her great grandchildren. I told her not too long ago when she said that if one of my grandsons made a fist to her she would have broken both his arms and then take out a big leather strap and beat the hell out of him so he wouldn't do that again. I see why the 7 year old wouldn't go into her apartment. Really sad because they haven't changed one bit since I left them when I was 12 and I feel so sorry for my whole family that I did that. I built an apartment onto my house and brought them up here because they are elderly (father is 98 and mother is 93)...Big mistake, should have let them die in Florida .

Anyway...

I was pretty naive when I was a kid and I'm also a little naive today. But I still look at what I did as being my fault. I was all spaced out disassociating this morning seeing that kid hanging by his hands in a closet and pissing and shitting on himself and wondering or even wishing that kid was dead. My wife came back into the bedroom about 10:30 this morning and it took me till about 11:50 for her to bring me back to earth and pull myself together (still haven't and it's 3:00pm) and get out of bed. So to answer you your kind and sweet words to me, yes while I was looking at him trying to hold back his nature calling needs and then letting go, at that moment I didn't think it was fair for him to be treated like that\ I did wish he was dead . Maybe I shouldn't have told my wife that part. But yeah I'm sort of answering my own question.

I still haven't gotten to thinking like your thoughts but maybe one day, thanks for the boost.

I don't want to scare anyone but this is the way I feel. When I was a 14-12 I tried to commit suicide twice, the second time only 2 months after the first. I really thought that for these people to kill me would be very horrible way of dying along with a lot of pain. This was due to these people showing me the movie that was made of me getting a cattle prod shoved up my ass, I never wanted that to happen again and not because I was scared of dying but because I was terrified of the pain.

Today the only thing that keeps me here is my wife (it's a long story) and my meds. I don't want to hurt her even though I think she will get over it. I believe everyone else will also get over it in time, even my kids. The pain and stupidity of what I did and what happened to me are very overwhelming, it has totally destroyed my life since I fell apart 3 years ago.

I had better stop here with this train of thought. I wish I had the balls to tell about the things that I was forced to do that one year and then you might understand better what I'm talking about. I think that Eric might understand.

I thank you for your love and kindness and especially your sweet words of encouragement, in a way I hope you're correct.

I
agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and
chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole
discretion of MaleSurvivor. I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor
resources are AT-WILL,
and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for
any reason by MaleSurvivor.