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Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

I can agree with that, but on the flip side there was just as much overrating of him when he was on the court and during the first two weeks of the season when we struggled, it was "this is a lottery team without him, he's an MVP type player".

So there's that.

My only concern is that the starting 5 may miss Lance's ability to handle the ball. Granger has always been suspect when it comes to ballhandling and playmaking, and Paul George (for all his improvements) still has below average handles if he's playing the SG position. Our starting 5 will definitely be a few steps slower, so let's hope that we can keep the turnovers down.

If they re-integrate him the way Dallas did with Dirk, it should be a smoother transition that allows Vogel to identify strengths and weaknesses of certain lineups.

Our play this seasons, up until this moment, has done nothing to dissuade me of my opinion that Danny is likely our most important player on offense.

Despite West playing like a brand new man, George's improvements on offense, Hills improvement at playing like a point guard and Stephenson's emergence we were a top 10 offensive team last year, this year however? Among the worst, in spite of the offensive contributions of George, West and Hill, which are improved from last season, and well offset Hibbert's decline of 2 or 3 points.

If Danny gets our offense back to anywhere close to where it was last season than we are legitimate contenders, he's incredibly important.

Danny isn't an MVP of the league obviously, but he's the MVP of our offense and still plays all-star caliber ball most of the time (think post all-star break last season)

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

I am most excited about the possibility of a Heat vs. Pacers rematch in the play-offs, D-Wade on the new and improved Paul George? I think Paul could dominate that line-up offensively, even if they put LeBron on George then Granger could post up D-Wade all day.

And with Lance in the rotation with them Wade and LeMe will be run ragged trying to keep up....(at least that's what I hope! lol)

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

Seth... the Granger dunk photo just becamse my new background. Thanks! I am so excited my palms just got sweaty thinking about how good we can be.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

That's why I'm saying I don't think we've been significantly worse without him so far and don't expect we'll be significantly better with him.

I do think it'll help, but I don't see it being a true game changer.

This team doesn't need a significant improvement to have an adequate offense. If Granger can just bring 4 extra points a game, that would be a huge difference with how great our defense is, and perfectly within reason.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

That's why I'm saying I don't think we've been significantly worse without him so far and don't expect we'll be significantly better with him.

I do think it'll help, but I don't see it being a true game changer.

I think the way his return will help spread the court for us will be a HUGE benefit to our offensive efficiency. I don't think he is going to have the net effect on the defensive end nearly as much as he will offensively. I anticipate replacing those minutes that Young and now GG are getting with better minutes from Granger. I think Lance will be the one player that really improves when Granger comes back. He will match up with other teams' second units a little bit more, which tend to be players who are worse defensively.

PS - Very good last couple of points BRush.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

This team doesn't need a significant improvement to have an adequate offense. If Granger can just bring 4 extra points a game, that would be a huge difference with how great our defense is, and perfectly within reason.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

Personally I think it is less about the number of points difference he will make and more about the way other teams have to look at defending us. That is the biggest thing. You take the other team's best wing defender and who do you put him on? Then what? Of course, the key to all of this is making sure that PG makes other teams pay for putting the best defender on Granger and vice versa. Defenses won't be able to collapse on Hibbert and West the same way they have all season. DWest is tough enough to deal with that. Hibbert is not. I think Granger's presence buys Hibbert four points more per game and that is the more important four points to talk about.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

Go back to bed mattie......

:facepalm:

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

I think it will help sure. I don't think it will push us over the top.

More than anything, I guess I'm just skeptical that Granger will buy in defensively and accept a role offensively the way we need him to in order for it to be anything more than a superficial upgrade.

Anytime you can add a top 20 scorer in the NBA, that's a significant upgrade. Danny doesn't need to "accept a role" offensively. He simply needs to do what he's been doing the past 4 years, and that's be a scorer. Maybe not at the same volume, but we still need an above average scorer to add to this lineup--which even if you look at Granger's numbers last yr (his worst scoring season in 5 yrs) he most definitely is.

If he can average 16-18 ppg, that's more than enough offensive punch to make this team that much more dangerous. Championship material? Probably not. But very, very good team? (top 2-3 in the East) Potentially.

Also, it's a trickle down effect. Danny Granger takes Lance's place in the starting lineup. Lance takes most of Green's minutes as the first wing off the bench.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

Anytime you can add a top 20 scorer in the NBA, that's a significant upgrade. Danny doesn't need to "accept a role" offensively. He simply needs to do what he's been doing the past 4 years, and that's be a scorer. Maybe not at the same volume, but we still need an above average scorer to add to this lineup--which even if you look at Granger's numbers last yr (his worst scoring season in 5 yrs) he most definitely is.

If he can average 16-18 ppg, that's more than enough offensive punch to make this team that much more dangerous. Championship material? Probably not. But very, very good team? (top 2-3 in the East) Potentially.

He absolutely needs to accept a role offensively. He needs to accept that he still has to play defense with 100% effort, regardless of what happens on the offensive end. That hasn't been the case for him in the last several seasons.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

Having Danny back won't just help Danny. I think that Hibbert's shooting woes have a lot to do with Granger being gone. George is a suspect entry passer. Even when he does get it into the post, Hibbert usually catches it further away from the block than when Granger was making that same pass. As a result, George tends to cut to the basket to try to get Hibbert's man to look off of him so that Hibbert can move towards the basket. With Granger, the play was more often that Hibbert caught the ball deeper in the post, forcing a double team, and Granger would stand at the corner three and wait for the kick out.

Also, as efficient as Lance has been with his shooting, even if Granger is the weak side shooter on a Hibbert or West entry pass, he'll command a lot more respect from opposing defenses. I think people drastically underestimate how dangerous Granger is from deep if given an open shot.

I also think moving Lance to the second unit with is efficiency will drastically improve our bench. If I recall, he and Hansbrough have great chemistry and work very well together. Lance will also give DJ another shooter to pass to who can and will knock down shots. This will reduce Green's role, and eliminate minutes for any other wing, such as Young or McGuire, which should have a very positive impact on our second unit defense, as well.

Finally, the ability to play a Hill/Stephenson/George/Granger/West lineup allows us to match up favorably with other small lineups, and should eliminate Pendergraph's minutes. This will help us on both ends of the floor.

Re: Granger to begin practicing soon?

The biggest difference between last years offense and this years offense is 3pt% and FT%. Both of which were near the top of the league last year, and both of which are near the bottom this year. Granger's return I would not expect to improve the FT% much if at all, but he could significantly improve the 3pt% just by diminishing how many shots Green takes. That right there would make all the difference in the world, and isn't even taking into consideration indirect impact on putting other players into better positions to score.