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We got so far so quickly on the last one I'd be happy to do them all in order or alternately with similar material.

I wouldn't mind pairing this one with Haydn's Hob.XVI/8 divertimento in G major. This is an easy sonata to play. The final allegro sounds very impressive but falls easily under the fingers. It's quite likey that Haydn wrote this as a teaching piece. It's not entirely certain whether it was to teach the instrument or composition. It's excellent material for our analysis.

Have a quick look/play through at the Clementi sonatina no. 2 (also in G major) and do the same with this one and see which you prefer.

Do you mean finally finding out how I work? ___________________________

So we're looking at the Haydn, then.

Listen a few times or play it if you can. It's a beginners piece, about grade 2 (ABRSM) so go slow and you should do a reasonable job at least for finding out what's happening even if you have to do RH alone. You will probably get more than listening to an up to tempo professional recording but you should do that too, of course, as many of them as you can find.

We've already seen first and second subjects in the Clementi so mark your score in pencil where you think you hear them here.

Divide it into sections, look at the proportions of the various parts, contrasts between sections, tension and release, unity and so on.

How does it differ from the Clementi Sonatina? How is it the same?__________________________

The piece was written by Pappa Haydn in about 1760 as one of a set of six easy pieces. He called them Divertimenti (amusements).

Haydn was the worlds first great international musical celebrity. He, more than anyone else, shaped what we know as the symphony, the sonata, the string quartet, and the concerto and while his nature wasn't given to shaking up the world as Mozart and Beethoven were he was the first to show signs of the forthcoming Romantic age.

He was a very personable character, always of good cheer and never one for extremes. His music is full of charm, wit, humour and surprise. While Bach wrote for God and Mozart wrote like one, Haydn wrote for humanity. He was the most prolific of the great composers.

Franz Joseph Haydn (he used his second name spelled in German ... Josef)

1732-1809; Born in Rohrau Austria of hungarian descent and raised in a musical family.

Considered "Father of the Symphony" and "Father of the String Quartet"

The more I learn and understand about this man, the more I like him. Aside from the 227 year age difference we were practically twins. Of course he got all the talent. Thankfully though, I got all the good looks .

According to some estimates Josef produced some 340 hour of music. More then Bach, Handel, Mozart or Beethoven.

He was influenced by Johann Stamitz, Giovanni Battista Sammartini. Among his followers were Mendelssohn, Schubert, Beethoven, Mozart.

First movement -- of four movements -- score analyis; Sonata in G Major (composed 1766) to follow ...

Above is quick preliminary review to further set the stage of this great composer.

Greener, part A lays out all of the themes for the first time, so it is all Exposition Part B, after the repeat, contains the Development (wandering around) and the Recapitulation (very similar to the Exposition).

The exposition is up to the repeat bars in M16 3/4. It has three themes, which you've found easily, the first is M1 to M8 1/2 in G closing with an imperfect cadence (IV-V) and the second in D major closes with a perfect (V-I) cadence at M14 1/4. The last 2 1/2 measures are a closing theme.

The development is M16 3/4 up to M26 3/4.

The Recapitulation is from M26 3/4 to the end in G throughout.

Excellent progress, Jeff. I may have to start watching my back sooner than you thought!

Look at the themes in the exposition. How do they compare and contrast?

Explore the keys and material in the development section. Find out where all the material comes from. It should be a composite of the fragments, figures and themes from the exposition. Just like the Clementi sonatina.

Lead in to m17 = Lead in to m1 Off beat melody in m17 is from theme 2 that starts in 8.5

This next section I will need to think more on. I think m18-m19 may be condensed version of m5-m7.

end of m21 is first (lead) theme again, we also hear this at end of m19 and again at end of m22.

Need to come back to this section. Page is getting very messy, so need to transcribe first.

"Lead in to m17 = Lead in to m1" : Yes

"Off beat melody in m17 is from theme 2 that starts in 8.5" : beats me. I can't see where RH comes from.

"This next section I will need to think more on. I think m18-m19 may be condensed version of m5-m7." : No, but nice try. Any more thoughts?

"end of m21 is first (lead) theme again, we also hear this at end of m19 and again at end of m22." : I know you meant M23 not M22 and yes, the three note figure introduces each of the four phrase in the development.

"Need to come back to this section. Page is getting very messy, so need to transcribe first. " : Any more progress?

For connecting themes: This might work for someone who relates to music like I do. I caught on to it for the sonatinas when I was young before having theory. I hear the melody line (play it, hear it). So if a melody as part of A or B repeats itself later on in the recapitulation, then I hear it and think "Oh, there's that melody again. Seems to be an octave lower / different key." When the composer plays with it by sticking in new notes, or starting differently but landing at the same time, then the "ear player" in me hears a written down improvisation. I'm mentioning this because I read that Greener started as an ear person. Since I was primarily a singer, I tend to hear melody more, and I'm trying to catch up to hearing chords.

Hi KS, yes thanks and agree. This is obvious for most of the B section in relating back to the A section. But, not so obvious for the first two lines (with exception of a couple of sporadic mentions of the first theme melody thrown in.) In this case, I'm not hearing a very good match. But, will keep trying

Some of this might be difficult to hear until you're more familiar with what it is that you're listening for so I'll fill this out for you here and you can try and find these figures in the other three movements. Did you see and go over the connections I posted for the other movements in the Clementi? This is much the same thing here. The four movements have a lot of unity.

Here's the Allegro, then. Do go over it with the score and the performance until you can see and hear all this. And take frequent breaks.

Development: four phrases each beginning with our clearly identified three note figure from phrase 1 at end of M16, M19, M21 and M23. The four phrases are 3 measures, 2 measures, 2 measures, 3 measures forming a nice archway centred on the very middle of the movement at M21 3/4.

phrase 7 notice the pedal D to balance the pedal G at the start of the movement. It keeps the mood calm at the start and allows the tension to rise when in starts to move in M20. The four triplets at M18 1/2 are M7 inverted and decorated.

phrase 8 is the closing theme inverted and the triplet replaced with a turn (a very common decoration in Haydn's music).

phrase 9 does the same but with a trill instead and a change of key.

phrase 10 is tricky. Take a little time with this and use your ear. It's phrase 4, M5-8 with a bit of variation. Notice how in the exposition it ushered in the second subject but here announces the recap'n. You might do a better job with your eyes if you work backwards but M25=M7.

Notice how the tension rises during these four phrases and is released with the recap'n.

The recap from M26 3/4 is pretty much bar for bar up to M42 when the closing theme is repeated once more.

Hi KS, yes thanks and agree. This is obvious for most of the B section in relating back to the A section. But, not so obvious for the first two lines (with exception of a couple of sporadic mentions of the first theme melody thrown in.) In this case, I'm not hearing a very good match. But, will keep trying

Here is what I am hearing with my "old ears". I'm going to reconstruct this freely into "ear player mode" and maybe if you play with it in that fashion you can mesh your old abilities with this new knowledge. Each person relates to music differently and old background is a strength rather than something to be set aside.

Mm. 1 - 2 (RH) is almost like a "riff" (if I understand that term properly) - some little melody pattern. We've got it again in mm 5 & 6. Then, if you were improvising that bit, I hear a variation of it in mm. 16 & 17. If you were doodling on the piano, maybe you'd come up with similar versions of it. Then when mm. 24 - 25, there's the same thing, but it's an octave below. Then mm 28 & 29, imagine you've got the same thing, but as composer you're saying "How the heck do I bring the melody up higher so that we can stay in the tonic? Hey, I'll climb up where I went down but use the same chord notes!" He's kept the same rhythm and the same chords. I recognize it as a version of the same thing.

I also use my knowledge that in this music phrases tended to be grouped in fours, and I can hear that rhythmically.mm. 1 - 4:dum deeda dum dum / dum deeda dum da / deedadeeda deedadeeda DUM (pause).Then there's another "dum deeda..." with more deedadeeda's that move the music into another place.

mm. 16 on we've got the dum deeda dum dum, but it's in an new key and it's taking off. I know from theory that sonatina form will have a development, so I'm looking further.

My next dum deeda dum dum happens in m. 24, and it happens after a big long REST which signals "we're changing gears here, folks!" Mm. 24 - to 27 are totally identical to the beginning, except for being in a lower octave.

I may not know what to do with the rest of it, so now I'm looking for the second theme and write (????) for m. 28 - 30.

Visually mm. 31 - 32 have my attention. You've got a line of notes like in a scale climbing up followed by four quarter notes: rhythm: deedadeeda deedadeeda /dum dum dum dum -twice. We have a match for 31 - 34 with mm. 8 - 11. If you play 31 - 34 and then 8 - 11, can you HEAR the same melody in a different key? We can write (????) for mm. 35 - 38. You'll probably hear similarities between 35 - 38 and 12 - 15.

You might now put yourself into the shoes of the composer for our (????). For mm. 28 - 30, you want to reflect mm. 5 - 7. You can't do the same thing, though, because the first time you were modulating to a new key, and this time you want to stay in the same key. So how can you keep a similar rhythm and feel and land on the desired note and key at the end? He does so by keeping our "da deeda dum dum" before taking off.

The second (???) is much closer to its counterpart.

This kind of thing works for me personally because I am in part a by ear and creative person, and in part have used written music all my life, but didn't really know how to read for some decades. I did this kind of feeling and sensing things. I'm going by a hunch that some of what I used to do might work for a by ear person.

Btw, I did some composition exercises in theory, and by trying to produce music there, it helped me understand the music here.

I think that these go hand in hand because you need both. When learning about sonata-form these three terms are essential: exposition, development, recapitulation. What they represent are also important, (concept) and only then does content have meaning.

EXPOSITION: The composer sets out the themes. This is all done in the same section. Usually the second theme or subject will be in a new key: usually dominant key or relative major or minor.

DEVELOPMENT: The composer plays around with some of the material.

RECAPITULATION: The themes will be brought in again. The theme which had been modulated is back in the tonic key.

Hi KS, yes thanks and agree. This is obvious for most of the B section in relating back to the A section. But, not so obvious for the first two lines (with exception of a couple of sporadic mentions of the first theme melody thrown in.) In this case, I'm not hearing a very good match. But, will keep trying

As I read on, I saw that originally there was a confusion about what sections and the titles meant so the confusion might have had more to do with what you were calling which.

I'm thinking that even if I had the wrong piece, maybe some of my ideas still can be used for any piece and this piece in particular. I mean three things:- listening, if you are an ear person, and even thinking of what you might do if you were improvising this yourself, in order to get into the composer's mindset- looking at rhythms that are the same- when you get to the second half of a theme especially, again as an ear player or budding composer, think of where the composer needs to go so you can anticipate some of what is going on.

I've looked at the First Allegro movement of the Haydn Divertimento now. I see the matching themes in the same places that Richard has set out. Now I'm looking at why I'm recognizing things, and what might be tricky.

** the end of m. 26 going into m. 27 is where the Recapitulation starts, with the first theme. Unlike the Clementi, there is no big pause with rests to alert us to a change of pace. Haydn flows from the development right into the Recapitulation. The concluding D in the bass creates the cadence that ends the Dev't, yet it also leads straight into the Recap. The thing that alerts us is the strong finality of the cadence, along with the mark telling us to emphasize the D. "The End". Also the visual appearance of the notes that follow; the same rhythm: even exactly the same notes.

Once you know where Theme 1 starts at the end of m. 26, I think it's easy to match it to the original. A couple of times something in the bass might be in a different octave, but it's the same.

I was first fooled in thinking that Theme 2 starts in m. 34 because it looks and sounds similar. But it actually starts at the end of m. 37. The original has a A7 chord, with the 7 in the melody repeat, and this is the start of the key of D major. M. 37 has has a D7 which is the V7 of G major; the tonic key which we want to have.

If I put myself in the shoes of the composer, I'm thinking at m. 34 where theme 1 ends, "How am I going to switch back into the key of G? so by creating a section of music that has the same shape as theme 2, and with those chord progressions, I can create a bridge back to G major, but do so almost seamlessly. Master craftsmen know how to hide their tricks.

Once I know that Theme 2 starts at the end of m. 38 and is in a new key, it is relatively easy to match it to the original Theme 2. Again putting myself into the composer's shoes, I'd want it to end in G, but add a bit of a flourish. It stays identical up to the first beat of m. 40 and then he adds a bit of a tail to it, extending the conclusion making it prettier and more final. That kind of extension is called "coda" which means "tail".

Thanks everyone for all the great information. I still have more thinking and listening to do on this. But went back and read again (several times) and with particular focus on the trouble spot for me, which was m17 through m26.

Originally Posted By: zrtf90

Development: four phrases each beginning with our clearly identified three note figure from phrase 1 at end of M16, M19, M21 and M23. The four phrases are 3 measures, 2 measures, 2 measures, 3 measures forming a nice archway centred on the very middle of the movement at M21 3/4.

phrase 7 notice the pedal D to balance the pedal G at the start of the movement. It keeps the mood calm at the start and allows the tension to rise when in starts to move in M20. The four triplets at M18 1/2 are M7 inverted and decorated.

So, if I understand correctly this section (m16 3/4 - m26 1/2) restates themes 1,2,3,4. Plus, when restating theme 1, he borrows some tricks from theme 4 for triplets in m18 1/2. Ever slick how, as you say, this forms archway centered on m21 1/2 and in middle of movement.

Not sure yet how to relate all this in terms of how it sounds, but will work on that next so as to try and relate this better in next movements.

You should see my score ... I think I'll need to print anew.

Feeling good, and having better understanding of new things to watch for now.

Not exactly. M16-26 is the development but it isn't just restating themes. You might want to get a cup of tea, this could be long. (Here I go again!)

The exposition has at least two things in it; material in the tonic key and material in a contrasting key, usually the dominant or the relative major of a minor key tonic. There might also be an introduction to set the scene, like a prologue before the arrival of the main protagonists.

The material in the in tonic may be presented as one theme (e.g. Romeo) or more themes (e.g. the Montagues) made up from figures or motifs that I call germs, seeds, elements, etc.

There may also be a bridge passage where the composer moves gracefully from one key to the other or it may be a more sudden transition into the second subject material.

The material in the contrasting key may also be contrasting material, as it often is with Mozart and Beethoven, or more of a continuation, variation or development as it more often is with Haydn. Again it may be one theme (e.g. Juliet) or a group of themes (e.g. the Capulets). In a piece as short as this it would be discomfitting to have too much contrast; in a bigger piece it would need more to avoid monotony.

There is frequently, as in this divertimento, also a closing theme after the V-I cadence in the dominant. This may be to tell us that all the principal players have been introduced and the story is about to begin, or it may be to introduce minor characters such as Prince Escales or Friar Lawrence (continuing the R & J theme) or to set out the conflict between the warring families.

The second half begins with the development section. Here the composer tells the story by taking his themes and ideas and developing them. As long as he uses the germs, seeds and elements from the exposition as the basis for his wizardry the piece will have unity. He can also take his raw material from the introduction, bridge passage, and closing theme and he can add new material. This is where there will be changing keys, drama, conflict, plots and sub-plots and where most of our interest will be.

The recapitulation is a restatement of the initial ideas, not always as they were at the start but as they now are after the drama of the development section. But we want the Hollywood ending. We want the conflict to be over and the story to have a happy outcome. In the recapitulation the protagonsists all sing in the same key. We are satisfied.

There may or may not be an epilogue where all the loose ends are tied up, the principal characters may be gone but we are told the families will henceforth live in peace and they all live happily ever after.________________________

Once you've got the hang of this and have started seeing the patterns and connexions there aren't right and wrong answers. It's just how YOU see it. It's not like an archaeologist finding a bone and knowing what part of what extinct animal it is. There is a basic structure but much of it, especially the development, is more like cloud watching.

Keystring sees M37 as not being the true second theme. I see it as being ON the dominant rather than IN it, so for me it IS the second subject. In the Clementi I'm still undecided about M8 being bridge passage or second subject. It is what it is; it doesn't change because we see it differently, WE change because we see it differently.

It would be naïve to suggest that the composer wasn't aware of the connection between the various parts but at the end of the day he may simply have hit upon some phrases that sound good together without seeing the connexions. It doesn't matter whether he does it consciously or subconsciously as long as the result works. How we see the fragments is how we understand the piece. We hear a piece of music and think, "wow, that sounds good" but some of us want to know why. That's what analysis is. It's injecting connexions into the music that the composer may or may not have been aware of. The more we see, the better we understand and the more we can enjoy and the better our own compositions become.

I can enjoy Beethoven's fifth just listening to it but I revel in it knowing how it's put together. Liszt's B minor sonata was a mystery to me how anybody could enjoy listening to it. Until I analysed it. And now, for me, it's one of the greatest pieces of piano music ever written. I can't listen to the entrance of the fourth theme without shedding a tear. That's why I do this.