Toronto = bad for Arroyo

For whatever reason, pitching in Toronto hasn’t been good for Bronson Arroyo.

“Not since I switched over to this uniform. I used to do alright here,” he said.

His line during an 8-2 loss to the Blue Jays: 3 2/3 innings, eight hits, seven runs, six earned, with three walks, two strikeouts and THREE HOME RUNS.

Guess it could have been worse for Arroyo. On June 24, 2008, in what was one of the worst outings in Major League history, he gave up 10 earned runs and 11 hits in just one inning.

Arroyo’s ERA in his last two starts here: 30.90.

“I’d much rather face these guys at our park next time,” Arroyo said. “I don’t know if that’s going to happen. Both times I’ve been here, it’s been a struggle. It just seems like they’re swinging at everything on the plate and taking everything off the plate.”

Toronto’s hitters seemed to know what was coming. Aaron Hill jumped on a first-pitch breaking ball for a two-run homer. Vernon Wells attacked the very next pitch — a fastball. The next thing the Reds knew, they were down 5-0.

It was another demoralizing night for the lineup. They got just two hits over seven innings against Scott Richmond, who retired his final 14 in a row.

“We were kind of behind the eight ball from the very beginning,” manager Dusty Baker said. “It makes it tough, especially when you’re not scoring a lot of runs. You can only get behind so much early.”

Big picture: Reds are 34-36, two below .500. They’ve lost four in a row and 9 of 12. Something needs to turn, and soon.

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“Something needs to turn, and soon.”

… Indeed. Firstly, I’ve been a fan of Arroyo since he came to Cincy, but I don’t think he’s what we need to win big. You might as well bring in Homer. He’s had the taste of the majors, he knows what it takes to pitch in the Big. For him it’s just a matter of putting thing together. I’d rather have Bailey out there than Arroyo, because it can’t get much worse. Bailey is young, Arroyo is not. Arroyo has been fading for the past couple of years, but Bailey has a lot of years ahead of him. Bring Bailey up and keep him there for the entire year. If he still can’t produce, well… then you make another change.
Right now… it’s just SO hard to watch a player getting paid 9 million dollars to get crushed almost day in and day out. Arroyo is the ultimate enigma. He’ll have a few good games in a row, but then he’ll stink it up the next four or five. As i mentioned the man is getting paid 9 million dollars this year, 11 next year. That’s 20 million in two years… and for what? Nothing. After his first year in Cincy (and come on, now… that year was probably a fluke) he hasn’t done much of anything. It’s time to cut the washed up pitcher and bring in someone young who can learn the game. Bronson’s a veteran, and while I understand veteran leadership is hard to come by, in this situation it’s not worth it. I hate to say it (because again, I’ve always been a fan of Arroyo), but it’s time for him to go…

The offense is another thing that’s been killing. For the most part we’ve gotten superb pitching, both from the rotation and the bullpen. But it seems we’re shooting ourselves in the foot every night because we waste that good pitching with terrible hitting. I expect Jocketty to be making some phone calls. Because if the Reds want to stay in the race, changes need to be made.

And that’s what makes all of this so tough. We actually have the talent to win this year. We don’t have to say “well, we’ll get ‘em next year,” because the talent is already there. It would be a darned shame if we don’t do something special just because we can’t manage to score a measly 3-4 runs when it counts…

Also… if any of the information I’ve given is wrong (stuff like Arroyo’s salary), I apologize.

Ditto on your Arroyo comments from me redsrock! It sure seems when it comes to the Reds the bigger the salary the poorer the performance. I don’t get to see the Reds in training or working out but I really to question the work ethic of the the ones that are slumping so badly. As far as Arroyo is concerned I think he has a future in middle relief but he surely isn’t worth 9 million! If we had a half way decent training staff they would have Arroyo coming in 4 hours before each game not just his start and watching game film of days when he was sharp and going of his mechanics. I don’t know if it is mechanics though. I always thought that Arroyo relied upon deception because he has no fastball to speak of.

I was sad to heare about Volquez. I was wondering about him from his first start this year. He seemed like his back was bothering him back then…. and again I go back to conditioning. What are these professional players doing in the off season to maintain and or improve upon their skill sets?

It is frustrating to see how poorly things have turned for us. I suppose we could get hot in July and make up some distance in the standings but… I’m not going to hold my breath.

It is looking more and more like another rebuilding year. 19 years in a row of rebuilding. Well at least I’m not a Cubs fan.

Gonna disagree about Arroyo here. He is all you can ask for out of a number 3 starter. 200 + innings, 12 + wins. Its like clockwork. What needs to change is the offense. Think of it this way: even without the 5-run first inning, we still lose that game 3-2.

Arroyo, Owings, Harang, Cueto are not the problem. They have pitched good all year which is the ONLY reason this team is only 2 games below .500.

If we dont get an RBI guy and fast, this thing is going to be out of reach again.

Arroyo gets so many wins because for whatever reason the offense decides to kick in when he’s on the hill. It’s not because he’s pitched good. This year he’s had his moments, but…
And Owings hasn’t pitched well all year at all. In fact, he’s only had a handful of good starts. What helps him win games is obviously his bat. I can name a few games where he would’ve lost if it weren’t for his hitting.

Can’t go with you on this one, RR. Winning staffs are often underpinned by pitchers just like Arroyo. The Reds can’t win, however, if the pitching has to be perfect because of 5 or fewer hits a night from the lineup. Heard an interesting stat on a broadcast last week (can’t remember if was TV or radio): last year, 36% of Reds runs scoired on homeruns; this year, 38%! Well, yeah, we’re not getting on enough, we’re not running enough. and we’re not bunching enough of our precious hits to score runs. Okay, all of you know it, too. Do we need a BA guy, a bopper, a new hitting philosophy, a new hitting coach, or maybe all four? I was thinking last night that this team reminds me of the Neil O’Donnell Bengals. I’d watch them and then the team they were playing and say, oh yeah, that’s what a good team looks like. I felt the same looking at Toronto’s lineup with their robust BA’s.

those that are defending Arroyo… have you looked at his stats?
He has started 15 games…. has an earned run average of 5.54 has given up 100 hits in just 92 innings pitched. just 50 strikeouts! opponents are batting .280 against him…. how many batters do we have batting .280 in our daily lineup? and the worst stat and his problem….. 18 homeruns allowed…. I’m guessing he is leading the league in giving up the long ball for a starter on pace to give up over 40 homers in a season.
Arroyo would not be starting on any other team unless as a #5 starter.

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