Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Exactamundo. That's why I think it's fitting that the chanting is a huge motif for Bane in the score. It's indicative of where he literally came from, but it's also indicative of where he is still metaphorically trapped. In hell.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Even if Nolan didnt mean it in that way, all art is open to interpretation. And it makes that line have more meaning to Banes character if we choose to think of it in that way. Nothing wrong with that.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by shauner111

Even if Nolan didnt mean it in that way, all art is open to interpretation. And it makes that line have more meaning to Banes character if we choose to think of it in that way. Nothing wrong with that.

Absolutely. Myths are meant for us to dive into and derive meaning from. These characters are total archetypes, they're giant walking metaphors. And the films explicitly deal with a struggle of ideals and the power of symbols.

The immediate, plot reason for the line was to set up Talia's reveal. But to say the line doesn't offer a window into a contrasting nature between Batman and Bane, where one had the strength to escape the pit (another giant metaphor) while one didn't...it forsakes a larger view of the movie and the characters.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Ok lets say Bane never truly escaped, what does that even mean? I mean who cares most people never truly escape. Lets say someone grows up in a rough neighborhood and embraces the environment by choice and gets rich off that, what you think just because they are rich now that they have truly escaped. Most people born into bad situations that they are forced to rise against all in their way never truly escape. There is no way you can. My point was Nolan did not intend it for those purposes

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

last son, I think Bane's conversation with Bruce after they arrived at the Pit is the biggest support for this theory. He gets a haunted look when he talks about people climbing over one another to stay in the sun. Like the stuff he saw in the Pit lingered with him.

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Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by BatLobsterRises

Absolutely. Myths are meant for us to dive into and derive meaning from. These characters are total archetypes, they're giant walking metaphors. And the films explicitly deal with a struggle of ideals and the power of symbols.

The immediate, plot reason for the line was to set up Talia's reveal. But to say the line doesn't offer a window into a contrasting nature between Batman and Bane, where one had the strength to escape the pit (another giant metaphor) while one didn't...it forsakes a larger view of the movie and the characters.

Yup, absolutely.

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Originally Posted by the last son

Ok lets say Bane never truly escaped, what does that even mean? I mean who cares most people never truly escape. Lets say someone grows up in a rough neighborhood and embraces the environment by choice and gets rich off that, what you think just because they are rich now that they have truly escaped. Most people born into bad situations that they are forced to rise against all in their way never truly escape. There is no way you can. My point was Nolan did not intend it for those purposes

And my point was that it doesnt matter if he intended that or not. Music, film, art can be interpreted in many different ways. 1 guy sees something in a painting that the other doesn't see. A musician tells a fan "it doesnt matter what the song is about, if u think the lyric means something else then ur right too". It's the same with a scene or a line of dialogue.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

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Originally Posted by the last son

Listen I know we are all out of TDKR talk but come on, not everything has a philosophical meaning.

Uh...

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Originally Posted by TheBat812

Except, in Nolan's work, usually it does.

Yah.

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Originally Posted by the last son

Nolan did not mean it in that way. It was just a simple line to reveal Talia.

Do you know Nolan? Do you know that he didn't mean it in that way, because, as with watching BB and TDK, Christopher Nolan is one to leave certain things in a subtle way that ends up meaning more than what it does. Or even go back to his previous films like Following or Prestige.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

This is my problem with Nolans work sometimes. It tries so hard to be smart that it comes across as dumb. The Prestige while I only saw it once was no where near as smart as people think it is. Inception I don't have time to figure out who's dream because I'm trying to follow the movie and memento made no sense. Was an ok movie, though. Neat idea I can see how someone would like it.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

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Originally Posted by the last son

This is my problem with Nolans work sometimes. It tries so hard to be smart that it comes across as dumb. The Prestige while I only saw it once was no where near as smart as people think it is. Inception I don't have time to figure out who's dream because I'm trying to follow the movie and memento made no sense. Was an ok movie, though. Neat idea I can see how someone would like it.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

That's fine I'm a little worried with him on the MOS project but hopefully it's true he doesn't have a much input as some think. Hopefully it's 30% or less. But I did love Begins and TDK but towards the end you can tell he was just a little smoked out from batman.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by the last son

This is my problem with Nolans work sometimes. It tries so hard to be smart that it comes across as dumb. The Prestige while I only saw it once was no where near as smart as people think it is. Inception I don't have time to figure out who's dream because I'm trying to follow the movie and memento made no sense. Was an ok movie, though. Neat idea I can see how someone would like it.

If you were following the movie, you would know who's dream they're in..

You say Memento made no sense yet you make a statement like "It tries so hard to be smart that it comes across dumb"....riiiiiiiiiiiiight......

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by the last son

That's fine I'm a little worried with him on the MOS project but hopefully it's true he doesn't have a much input as some think. Hopefully it's 30% or less. But I did love Begins and TDK but towards the end you can tell he was just a little smoked out from batman.

Again, disagree on your views of Nolan's mindset with Batman. It didn't seem Nolan was "smoked out" on Batman at all. If that was the case, then I don't understand why Nolan would have tried to make such a complex plot for TDKR or one that was so character focus that TDKR could've been on its own with how well Bruce's arc was told that there couldn't even be two films beforehand.

And Nolan's input on Man of Steel would most likely have someone worried if they never enjoyed Nolan's films, but I have the upmost faith in the guy.

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Originally Posted by the last son

Also, I just feel the replay value on a Nolan film outside of Batman is very low. Too long and drawn out.

Outside of Batman, the only film that Nolan has done that's longer than any film of his trilogy is Inception, and that's only about five or ten minutes longer than BB.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

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Originally Posted by Bane Cook

"But I never escaped."

Anyone think this has a double meaning? Even after being rescued from the pit, he's still trapped there. The mask is a constant reminder that he carries around with him.

You are right, Bane had hard time believing that Bruce could escape from the pit, that was why Bane said "Impossible" when he saw the burning Bat symbol on the bridge.

To Bane not being able to escape from the pit was a reminder that he could never let go of his past and become normal, also the fact that Bruce could do it despite having a broken back (and his broken will) was an indicator of Bruce's mental and physical superiority over Bane.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Offcourse it has a double meaning. The Pit is not a psychical object . It is materialized as one . The notion of him being able to escape it , what the hole represents , Bruce's state when thrown there , encapsulates his journey throughout the story and triggers his catharsis.

Re: "You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?"

Can we all just acknowledge how terrible that line is ("You think you'e the only one who can learn the strength to escape?")?

Nolan has never been subtle with his writing, but coming at that point of the movie, with Bale's delivery, in that context, it's just awful. It would work in a PG fantasy film, but with the reality he was trying to build, it's way too much.