Tangible results ... today, I went to a book store where there was hanging on a Christmas tree "wishes" ... homeless, needy families requesting one toy for their children at this time of year; families without money to buy a Christmas dinner and on and on ... THIS was tangible and it felt good to give what I would have given to BKland, to a more worthy cause. It's not that I gave ... it was so much more than that ... it was the PRACTICAL realization of what we did in giving and service in BK land vs. the practical need of giving from the heart, no matter what is given for another's need. Pragmatic and practical is what I will concentrate on ... I also see your point in changing how I think ... all good advice ... thank you!!

also ... zspeaking of tangible results ... while at this bookstore, I was reading a book of cults; there was this part about self-healing strategies. One step said to try to go back in time to crucial moments in your involvement and "re-do" them, with the new information, resources and perspectives you now have. Oh boy ... this is years of time, money, energy taken ... taken ... this organization supported themselves and property, what would we do for ourselves now, as well as then in this exercise ... this will take time.

Maui, you really sound like you are getting yourself together well. Bravo.

The BK would say, ”But giving food or money to the poor is limited, after it is consumed it's gone, and the person is in the same position”.

I would say, ”so why do you keep meditating at regular intervals? You feel good for a little while, then need more, no? And if your meditation is helping others, it also must be limited as you have to keep doing it. And if you feel it does you and the world good, keep doing it but, well, there is no cost materially to you, so why not give materially too? Feeding the needy is going to give them a better a chance of moving on.” I know a number of ex-BKs involved in micro-finance schemes, regular donations to worthy charities etc.

It was reported only two or three weeks ago that the richest 8 people in the world have wealth equal to the poorest half of the world’s population.

i.e. I can imagine half of a pie sliced into 8 pieces, the other half sliced into 3,500,000,000 pieces!!

What would be interesting would be to see a similar comparison - how many of India’s poorest need to be aggregated to have the same wealth as the BKWSU/PBKIVV?

You cannot always see (or feel) how you may be progressing or going backwards. I'd rather be authentic and be told, "NO! STOP!" You're setting yourself up to fall!!" as well as positive for continuing self growth. That's a great answer to anyone in regards to giving ... using meditation as a response!! Really good one!

I was told by giving I am increasing negative karma ... we're not social workers, but spiritual workers. I'd have more negative karmic accounts to settle. I had a favorite charity I contributed to all my adult life and stopped upon becoming a BK. Today I will start renewing that. It really helps to take an action in direct opposition to what we were told ... I think it's helping to "break the chains."

The mosque that ISIL supporters attacked in Sinai killing over 300 worshippers was a Sufi mosque, although it was used by many denominations. The reason the Sufi are so hated by the Islamo-fascist Wahhabi Muslims is that they are real human beings who put compassion, kindness, culture, beauty - and people - above dogma.

There are other wonderful collections of these sufi teaching stories by Idries Shah but I have forgotten the titles, having lent them out and never returned by so-called spiritual people (typical). The stories are in most cases like Zen Koans, the ”moral of the story” not necessarily obvious in every case, more meant to provoke open thinking and further contemplation to extract that which cannot be articulated is words. But even if you don't, they are well told stories.