Making Progress Against Animal Cruelty: An interview with Wayne Pacelle

Wayne Pacelle is president and chief executive officer of the largest animal protection organization in the world, The Humane Society of the United States. The trophy hunting and agriculture lobbies call him an animal rights radical. The radical arm of the animal rights movement says he is too moderate. He walks the line with grace.

Vegan since his college days, Pacelle, fifty, takes the responsibility to represent his organization’s mostly moderate members just as seriously as his staunch personal commitment to animals. He employs a multifaceted and generally incremental approach to animal protection, designed to have wide appeal. His programs range from encouraging kindness to cats and dogs, to fighting against Canada’s seal hunt, to inviting school districts to get behind the Meatless Monday campaign.

Pacelle’s successes have been impressive. Watching the extraordinary effect of his incremental approach, we are reminded that incremental doesn’t mean little, it means little by little.

In his new book, The Humane Economy, Pacelle examines the forward movement that has come from pressing corporations to make decisions that reflect society’s changing values. For example, Petco and PetSmart now help adopt out rather than sell dogs and cats. They have found that the resulting lifelong customer loyalty is more valuable than receipts from selling pets. The companies have helped eleven million animals find homes, an impact on pet overpopulation that rivals spay-neuter and anti-puppy-mill legislation.The commitment by McDonald’s to buy only from suppliers that don’t use battery cages or pig and veal crates may do more than ballot measures to usher in the end of those cruel confinement systems.

The Los Angeles book party for The Humane Economy in late April was a ritzy affair full of heavy hitters, cementing the impression that animal protection, once considered radical or trivial, has made a serious and viable move into the mainstream. I chatted with Pacelle at the party, and then interviewed him in May after I read his book.

Q: When we learn about factory farming, puppy mills, and animal abuse in entertainment and for clothing, it can seem that society is built on cruelty to animals. But your book suggests that change is coming, and fast. What’s driving it?

Wayne Pacelle: As a society, we are typically deeply disassociated from animal cruelty, but more than ever, animal protection organizations are telling the backstory. Especially in this Internet age, routine practices are being exposed and rightly recognized as harsh and cruel. People are being forced to confront the realities. At the same time, we have an ever-growing understanding of the intelligence and emotional capacities of animals and an acceptance of the principle that animal cruelty is a moral problem.

Entrepreneurs, designers, scientists, and other creative people are giving us solutions to that problem. There are new ways of producing food, film, clothing, and research that steer clear of using animals. Some of those products are functionally equivalent or even superior to what we’re used to. Now corporations, legislatures, and other institutions are responding, and supporting these shifts, so we’re seeing seismic changes throughout society.

Q: Tell us more about ag-gag laws.

Pacelle: Undercover investigations threw back the curtain on the systemic exploitation of animals on factory farms. The response by agribusiness interests has been to back laws that ban animal advocates from taking pictures or videos at these facilities, and ban the media from publishing any that are taken. The laws also make it a crime for animal advocates to seek employment at animal enterprises without disclosing their intentions.

Q: How is the fight against those laws going?

Pacelle: Eight states have enacted some variation of the prohibitions, but we’ve been able to block dozens of other states from adopting them. And the existing eight are facing constitutional scrutiny in the courts. The factory farming interests walked right into a First Amendment punch. It has also turned out to be self-defeating from a public-relations viewpoint. Media coverage of the legislative fights is overwhelmingly negative for agriculture interests. The impression left among consumers is that the proponents had something to hide.

Q: Your section on meat alternatives made me understand why Nicholas Kristof, in the title of his New York Times column about your book, used the word “revolution.” Could we be heading toward a world in which “meat” is eaten but animals are not killed for it?

Pacelle: We’ve witnessed so many revolutions in our society. Think of transportation, photography, or communications. Things once unimaginable have become seemingly impossible to live without.

Given the overwhelming case that factory farming has so many disastrous consequences—for animals, the environment, and health—it seems ripe for disruption. And there are many innovators hard at work seeking to perfect alternatives to meat, milk, and eggs. These food products will, like computer-generated graphics or photography or sound systems, just keep getting better and better until there is little difference between an animal-based protein and a plant-based one, or farm-produced versus cultured meat. That will make it easy for people to make the kinds of choices that will usher in a world with far less violence.

Q: Plant-based eating is often thought of as the domain of the fancy folks who shop at Whole Foods. But you tell us that eggless Just Mayo is expanding into 7-Elevens. Score another point for the revolution?

Pacelle: Hampton Creek, which produces Just Mayo, and other companies developing plant-based proteins, are not only intent on beating meat and other animal products on price, they are doing it. You can tell they are succeeding, not least because more traditional firms are emulating them, or buying them up.

More than forty years ago, Frances Moore Lappé called animals “protein factories in reverse”—because, unless they are raised on grass, cattle and pigs require many pounds of grain to produce one pound of meat. As a matter of resource inputs, it should be more cost-effective to produce plant proteins directly, rather than feeding plants to animals to inefficiently convert them.

Q: I loved your chapter on entertainment. I worry that people sometimes confuse the American Humane Association, famous for stamping its “No Animals Were Harmed . . .” label on movies, and your organization, The Humane Society of the United States.

Pacelle: But at The Humane Society of the United States, we know how difficult it is to prevent cruelty to animals in movies because so many of the animal welfare problems occur behind the scenes in training, housing, and transportation, long before the animals get on the set.

Pacelle: Yes! A growing number of movie directors are taking advantage of that technology and leapfrogging the moral and practical problems associated with using conscripted animal actors.

I talked to director Darren Aronofsky, who made Noah, and to the writers of the most recent Planet of the Apes movies. These filmmakers used CGI and performance capture technology to keep animals at the center of the story with remarkable vividness, without using wild animals at all. Did you see Leonardo DiCaprio’s tussle with that bear in The Revenant? It was a human actor, and then CGI tools brought the scene to life.

Q: As I was finishing your book, I saw a BBC report on China, where a pig cornea has been transplanted into a man. The report noted that pig corneas were needed because there weren’t enough human corneas donated. What are the problems with that approach?

Pacelle: The issue of xenotransplantation—such as transplanting animal organs into humans—is fraught with risks for animals, naturally, and for people. When we transplant organs, we are enabling viruses to jump natural barriers between species.

Q: And what is the solution in a humane economy?

Pacelle: The good news is we are seeing an incredible surge in non-animal technologies in laboratories. With researchers using stem cells, visually impaired people may one day have new corneas and lenses grown from their own cells. That is likely to be a more effective and cheaper approach than using animals.

I visited one laboratory at Harvard that has created a “lung-on-a-chip” and is developing a whole series of other human organs as testing tools. It’s extraordinary stuff, and here again, human creativity and innovation is going to make the exploitation of animals look not only inhumane but obsolete and cumbersome.

Q: To what extent can we expect a humane economic order to catch on in China, a nation that will have a huge impact on the future of animals?

Pacelle: China is now urging citizens to eat less meat. Factory farming comes with immense costs to a society, and Chinese leaders are starting to recognize its implications for water use, the efficient use of grains and other food resources, and human health concerns.

The country is also starting to reform policies that required testing cosmetics on animals. And Chinese leaders are also adopting policies to stop the trade in ivory. China cares about its reputation and doesn’t want to be known as the nation whose preferences drove the extinction of elephants.

These are all immensely hopeful signs—evidence that the people of China, including its leaders, are starting to stir on animal issues. China is a keen observer of trends elsewhere in the world, and it’s going to give our own innovators a run for their money.

Q: You mention hopeful signs. During that BBC report, the camera scanned hundreds of pigs in the lab, each one housed individually in a body-sized cage. The reporter didn’t even seem to notice that the pigs’ lives were pure misery, and that left me feeling a little hopeless. Yet your book exudes hope. Can you share some here?

Pacelle: While the book is hopeful, as I am, I remind readers that animal abuse is still widespread and we have so much work ahead. I haven’t suggested that we’ve triumphed in any ultimate way. But I’ve put the spotlight on some transformations, which signal a substantial shift in the many areas where we’ve traditionally relied upon animal use.

The combination of moral intentionality and human innovation is a powerful force. And that’s the force behind the humane economy. By embracing its tenets, we help animals, but we also advance commerce in a more sustainable, and profitable, way. I think we have every reason to believe it is the way of the future.

Karen Dawn runs the animal advocacy site DawnWatch.com and is the author of Thanking the Monkey: Rethinking the Way We Treat Animals (HarperCollins, 2008). She has written on animal issues for the Huffington Post, The Washington Post, the Los Angeles Times, and The Guardian.

Comments (13)

I think the most important

I think the most important mission HSUS has accomplished is informing the Public about the heinous depraved nature of The Animal Killing Industry with it's HSUS TV Commericals and it's All Animals Magazine.

But if you are asking the question ,"Has HSUS made real progress in stopping or even reducing Torture and Genocide to Non Humans that can be counted numerically, I think the answer is "No".

Again: I am not saying that HSUS has done nothing towards ending Animal Absue and Genocide, but the reality is that the numbers of All Animals being killed in both the Wild and for Animal Agriculture is increasing. Let me explain my position and how I think we can actually reverse this situation around and start making real progress saving huge numbers of Animals.

The Corporatist U.S. Gov. is controlled to the largest extent by Corporate Interests and Corporate Greed. U.S. Politicians, FDA, USDA and State Depts. of Health & Agriculture and City Gov. Officals take perks from the Meat Poultry Fish Dairy Egg Slaughter Industry, the Chemical - Pharmacuetical Industry, the Weapons Industry and in return, this industries give Politiicans Campaign Money, Trips, and Job Offers at the ends of their Gov. tenure.

Every month many Millions of Non Humans are torured & killed both inside the U.S. and outside the U.S. by the U.S. Gov. Military. The U.S. with its' never ending Wars against small Nation States that rages on killing both Humans and many more Non Humans everyday is a war that is being increased. Copnsider how many coutries have been leveled to the ground or being made "Scorched Earth" by The Corporatist Colonial U.S. Wars in Iraq, Libia, Syria and now Yemen. These U.S. Wars are not just against Humans, they are Wars against All Animals including Humans and Non Humans.

The U.S. Gov. subsidizes the incarceration, torture and killing of Non Human Aniamls by giving financial handouts to the Meat Poultry fish Egg Dairy Industry and to The Chemcal Drug Industry which also incarcerates torures and murders millions if not billions of Animals every year.

Add these industial forms of Animal Slavery and Genocide to those Aniamls being killed by U.S. Foreign Wars and what we are seeing is obviously that the Animal Movement as a whole is loosing.

The increasing Human Population or net gain in numbers of Humans being born in the U.S. alone is one every 11 seconds according to current U.S. Gov. Census Statisitics. this number of People being added to the census includeds the nuber of People that are dying. Non Human Animal Species are disappearing at record rates as Humans Population, Global Temperatures and Human Forest Destruction increase thoughout the World.

Karen Davis is Heroic for her Aggressive Campaigns to stop and prevent Animal Torture and Killing, but her assesment of our progress as an Animal Liberation, Animal Rights or Animal Welfare Movement is incorrect.
We have to agree that we are getting new People on board to join our movement to stop Animal Abuse, Incarceration, Slavery and Genocide, but we are NOT gaining them quickly enough to make up for the deficit created by the increase in the Flesh Eating Human Population, expanding U.S. Wars, and expansion of Human Enterprise including buildings, damns, highways, increased ocean and lake shipping, increased highway, housing and building production which all consrvatively cost Trillions of Non Human Lives everyday.

I think we all agree that there are more Vegans and more Animal Activists in the U.S. and around the World than ever and that number is increasing each day. Unfortunatley, there are many more Flesh Eating People being born all over the World and in the U.S. everyday with a net increase of one new Person every 11 Seconds just in the U.S. alone and by far the majority of People being born are not Vegans.

At this time, regardless of what part of the Pro Animal Movement you are in, this Movement is still loosing ground because of the increasing Human Population and massive and progressive destruction caused by Human progressvie Deforestation, Construction Projects including Housing Buildings, Roads and Wars.

Consider that our Global Temperatures are rising everyday and that for the past 15 Years our Global Temperatures are going up at record levels each successive year.

THE EASIEST AND FASTEST WAY TO GET PEOPLE TO CHANGE OVER TO A VEGAN LIFESTYLE

Is this loss a reason to give up our movement? NO...but we need to think of faster and more effective ways to change People's Minds about going Vegan and how Easy, Healthy and Delicious Vegan Eating is.

I have work on People every day in every venue or place immaginable: From my Health Club Sauna, Gas Station Attendents and Customers and Bank Tellers, I keep talking about the amazing advantages of going Vegan.

The biggest advantage to a Vegan Lifestyle is that our Human Arteries will not be progressivley blocked and destroyed by Saturated Animal Fat & LDL Cholesterol. Progressive Arterial Blockage can only be caused directly by eating Animal Based Foods. So whether we eat Meat, Poultry, Fish Dairy or Eggs, we are still making our skin sag, our Hearts Pump less effectivley, our Bones and Teeth deteriorate from Amono Acids, and blocking our Brain Arterial System Progressivley so we can not think as effectivley. This is why Teens, Adults and Old People are dying more quickly and loosing their Helath and Appearance at earlier and earlier ages.

Then I tell People how great Veggie Burgers, Veggie Hot Dogs and Veggie Chic'n Patties Taste when fried Crispy on the outside for texture. I always tell People to buy the Veggie Substitues without Animal Ingredients and to start reading Ingredient Labele on Veggie Burgers, Beans and everything else.

I tell People that the U.S. Gov. is run by the Meat Poultry Fish Slaugher Industry and that Chemcial Phamrmacuetical Industry and this is why dangerous Drugs are fed to Non Humans and Humans. th eU.S. Gov. allow this because they are run and paid off by these industries. The Met poultry fish slaughter Industry buys a huge amount of chemcal Drugs from the Pharmacutial Industry and these Steroid Growth Hormones, Antibiotics, Red Dye 40 (Insect Blood), Depleted Uranium and Sodium Nitrate are all toxic to Humans but they are added to All Animal Flesh Products to "increase growth rates" and decrease "disease causing organisims". The problem with all these Chemcal Drugs they put in Animals is that they cause disease incluidng Obesity in Humans. When Humans eat the Flesh and Secretions of other Animals they are also eating the Chemcal Drugs that are bieng fed to Aniamls as well well as the Radiation and Chemcals their Flesh is treated with before it goes on Grocery Store Shelves.

Medical-Chiropractic -Osteopathic-Veterinary Doctors are not taught these facts, so they do not know that the foods and the Chemicals Drugs they are telling their clients and patients to consumme are killing them.

Thank you for reading this document. We can win this war together, but we have to tell People "What is in it for Me" because we Humans are a Self Centered Being and we are taught to be that way form the outset.

Eric Weisman, DC is a scientist and works at Evolution Pet Foods experimenting and developing Vegan Pet Foods and Non Drug Supplement Formulations for Disease All experimental-developmental work at Evolution Pet Foods and Evolution Health Sciences use Non Vivisection Techniques that are only tested on Family Pets in Loving Homes and not in biased incarcerating laboratory procedures .

Eric Weismanmore than 2 years ago

It's too bad that Wayne

It's too bad that Wayne thinks that it is okay for us to eat animals. It's too bad that he actively promotes the eating of animals. And it's too bad that he thinks it's a good idea to have people who slaughter 50,000 pigs on his board of directors at HSUS.

Halmore than 2 years ago

Thank you for featuring this

Thank you for featuring this enlightening interview. I am hopeful that society is nearing a tipping point where a significant portion of the world population awakens to the needless suffering of animals.

Steve O.more than 2 years ago

Thank you for sharing this

Thank you for sharing this interview. I too am heartened by the "little by little" change, and try to challenge those who have bought into the anti-HSUS vitriol. The animal exploitation industries are fighting HSUS mightily with PR propaganda, which means they are scared of Wayne. Hats off to him!

Janet Tmore than 2 years ago

I will definitely read this

I will definitely read this book. Thanks for publishing an interview with a major animal protectionist.

Benedettemore than 2 years ago

Thanks to The Progressive for

Thanks to The Progressive for publishing this excellent interview!!

I have all too often been disappointed that many of my fellow Progressives can't see beyond the species barrier. We should respect animals for the same reasons we should respect all humans, including those that are disenfranchised. We all have emotions, intelligence, and sentience. We all would rather live than die. Our obligation to spare animals needless suffering, both physical and psychological, is no different than our obligation to respect our fellow humans, no matter their color, sex, sexual orientation, income level, etc. Because animals are different than us is no excuse for abuse, unless you believe that might makes right. And respecting animals doesn't mean praying/honoring them before we eat them, it means not eating their body parts and reproductive secretions (milk and eggs).

My fellow progressives often mock conservatives for denying climate change. Yet, those who acknowledge the gravity of our situation and continue ignoring the compelling scientific evidence indicating the necessity of embracing plant-based eating in order to greatly reduce our carbon footprints, are, perhaps, exhibiting an even greater level of denial.

Stewartmore than 2 years ago

A great interview, and Wayne

A great interview, and Wayne Pacelle has been a truly great president of HSUS. The Humane Economy is a must-read book for anyone who feels that the battle against cruelty to animals is hopeless. It isn't. I've been involved in the movement since 1970, and there has been more change in the past decade than in all the previous years. I'm sure more lies ahead. Let's hope Wayne is right about change in China too -- that's the big uncertainty in the global picture.

Peter Singermore than 2 years ago

Thank you for this very

Thank you for this very informative article. I ordered Wayne's book right away.

Alexandramore than 2 years ago

With no illusions about the

With no illusions about the enormous difficulties of animal activism and the plight of animals on the planet, I am heartened by the progress for animals expressed in this Interview including the fact that the progressive community is starting to show a more active concern for and interest in animals and their situation. I hope so. Thank you for publishing this worthwhile discussion. Karen Davis, President, United Poultry Concerns http://www.upc-online.org

Karen Davismore than 2 years ago

All well and good, but it

All well and good, but it will likely prove futile unless we get a handle on the planet's major problem: gross human overpopulation, to the detriment of all other life (and non-living) forms. Already too late for thousands of species we've driven to extinction.

x
Eric Mills, coordinator
ACTION FOR ANIMALS
Oakland

Eric Millsmore than 2 years ago

As Alan Weisman demonstrates

As Alan Weisman demonstrates in "Countdown", governments have come up with non coercive and effective plans to encourage smaller families. The only continent still experiencing explosive population growth is Africa, but population will inevitably continue t o rise everywhere because of the current numbers of humans on the ground. Ideally we could quickly get to an average fertility of 1.98 children per woman, leading to a very gradual decrease in population. How to get there? Universal education of women and access to safe, effective birth control, plus culturally normalizing an ideal of a small family. We've got work to do. Check out Population Connection and other organizations, and break through the taboo by discussing the importance of the situation at every opportunity.

Debbie Elliottmore than 2 years ago

The tiger nearly drowned

The tiger nearly drowned while taping Life of Pi-yet the standard "No animals were harmed"label was there. I guess you feel near drowning is not harmful?

phyllis smithmore than 2 years ago

Perhaps Phyllis Smith should

Perhaps Phyllis Smith should read the interview before commenting -- especially the part where I raise concern about the Humane Society of the United States, Pacelle's organization, being mixed up in people's minds with the American Humane Association, which stamps its "No Animals were Harmed" label on films.

Karen Dawnmore than 2 years ago

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