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Is Councilwoman Martinez Flip-Flopping?

Santa Ana City Councilwoman Michele Martinez has been loudly proclaiming her support for Illinois Senator Barack Obama for quite some time now.Ã‚Â However at this mornings Hillary Clinton rally at Santa Ana College featuring former President Bill Clinton the councilwoman was front and center.Ã‚Â

Why?

Is she flip-flopping and now supporting Hillary Clinton’s campaign?Ã‚Â Or is it that she could not stand the thought of an event in Santa Ana and her not being able to get the attention?

It’s just political protocol. When a former President or high level official from one’s own Party shows up in one’s city, it’s expected that city council members will attempt to attend. To do otherwise would be considered rude.

Anonymous

February 4, 2008 at 3:16 pm

Gila-

I disagree. This was a political rally for support in a competitive election 1 day before the election.

It was a not an official, it was a rally. Rallies are for supporters not people who want to get some limelight.

It is perhaps proper protocol if it were not a “campaign” event. Michele has continuously claimed to support Obama, but as soon as the Clinton campaign brings the spotlight to Santa Ana she jumps into it.

City Council members are not expected to attend campaign events if they do not support the candidate or campaign putting on the event.

Like I said, perhaps Michele has flip-flopped and decided to support Hillary.

thesunkenroad

February 4, 2008 at 4:32 pm

Nah. It’s a major political event when a former president comes to town. Lots of people will go, especially from the same party.

Anonymous

February 4, 2008 at 4:41 pm

I dont know if Michelle martinez is flip flopping on Obama/ Clinotn. but I do know that she is in hot water with the Dems and especially with labor over her suport and allegience with janet Nguyen. Michelle is being very opportuistic in this situation concerning janet Nguyen.

I find it especially disgusting since janet Nguyen ran her campaign soley on haterd for latinos. Whats the dealio Michelle? Are you a self hating latina? Or are you so shallow that you will cozy up to such a blatant racists such as janet Nguyen in order to bolster your image in the vietnamese community for your own run at the BOS?

No, Sean. Michelle Martinez is showing respect to a former President who is visiting her city. It would be a flip if she stood up on stage to announce that she now supported Hillary. And by all reports she did not. Would you say the same about Sal accepting an award from Bush? Or showing up when W came to Santa Ana?
As for Anon at 4:41pm, would you prefer that a sitting Councilmember sit on her hands and not work together with a County Supervisor to get things done and improve their overlapping areas? Has Michelle endorsed Janet’s re-election? Not as far as I know.
I’m fascinated that Michelle draws arrows for not working with colleagues and stones for trying to find common ground with another elected. How do you win?

OCDemoGirl

February 4, 2008 at 6:07 pm

You can’t win with him. Sean, stop being a hater. Michele is a breath of fresh air and stands by her principles. You can’t say that about your buddy Sal and his support of measure D.

And she is not a flipper. I would have gone to the rally this morning if I didn’t have to work and I am a proud supporter of Obama. Bottom-line is we have to support whomever the nominee will be as the race is very close. We have to stay united.

Why don’t you start trying to work with Michele on her efforts to reform Santa Ana rather than just complain ALL THE TIME. You are accomplishing nothing on your current course.

What a stupid post! What the Hell do you have against Michele Sean? You were on her advisory committee. Is your animus against her simply an extension of Sal Tinajero’s churlish behavior towards his more popular colleague?

Michele was there as an elected official welcoming a former president. That was quite appropriate.

Here is a better question Sean. Where do you stand on Measure D? Why won’t you take a position on this measure? Why won’t you comment on the fact that the Measure D campaign took money form your alleged archenemy Judy Ware? Where does Tinajero fit into this equation? He signed on to the Measure D argument. Surely you must have a comment about this…or will you duck the question and just continue attacking the ONLY progressive on our City Council?

Urizen

February 4, 2008 at 7:24 pm

I truly hate to agree with Art, but he, Gila and most Others are right. It’s politics, MMs a player and it’s about the public eye. Get out of the sandbox, it’s already crowded.

Sean, you’re smarter than this. Really Sean, there are other things that are far more important than to take up your time, and that of others, than why Michele attended the rally. And Gila is absolutely correct. It is entirely fit and proper for local electeds to show up when high-ranking dignitaries make personal appearances within their jurisdiction. Perhaps the amateurs who have been running city hall for so long have kept Santa Ana in the backwaters for far too long for people nowadays to realize that it really is the proper thing to do. I also would have gone this morning just to see Bill’s face turn red, but for the hour and the job I have that requires my regular, timely attendance.

thesunkenroad

February 4, 2008 at 9:52 pm

Sean, what do you know about housing issues in Santa Ana? About the ongoing Ware disposal problems? You are in a position to report news and issues to the world. You’ve done that in some of these posts. There is a community effort on in Santa Ana to explore real community-based development instead of a top down planned approach, such as is contemplated in the Renaissance Specific Plan. Those things and many other issues I don’t even know about that are more meaningful for the people of that city could be the “bread and butter” of your content here. I really frankly can’t give a d**n if Michelle shows up at a rally. She’s still a free citizen.

To all that felt inclined to defend Michele, it was a political rally and she supports the opponent of the candidate that was holding the rally. Seems rather hypocritical if you ask me.

Pedroza you are quite the expert on “stupid posts”. Anyone that hasÃ‚Â read your so-called blog lately, and there aren’t that many, can attest that it is a series of ridiculous, non-sensical rants based mostly on fantasies and lies.

This obsession with Measure D is quite disturbing. You run your mouth about it quite a bit. However when I spoke to some of your fellow “NO on D” friends they said you have been quite useless in the campaign. I hear that others had to walk your neighborhood because you were too lazy to do so. I would have thought that someone as concerned about Measure D as you claim to be would have been out working against day and night. But clearly the extent of your effort is spreading lies via the blogosphere.

You can continue to attack Sal and claim he is no progressive, but his record says otherwise. Sal also has strong backing from the unions that support the working men and women of this community. I don’t think those of us on the left need Art Pedroza, a quite recent member of the Republican Central Committee, telling us who the true “Progressives” are.

For the record I am a member of the American Federation of Teachers, which is affiliated with the AFL-CIO. So you can talk about union members, but I am one.

And you too are a former Republican, so please don’t trot out that tired card. I would think that your activist members of your party would be happy I quit the GOP – so why do you keep throwing that in my face?

As for Measure D, I did walk a vast portion of my neighborhood. No, I did not walk this weekend. My back acted up and it was just too painful for me to hit the streets. Fortunately, there were others available to pick up the slack. People can say what they want about me, but I did all I could to beat Measure D, while you sat on your ass and did nothing!

Also, I have four kids. Most of the activists I worked with on the No on D campaign have NO kids. I won’t apologize for looking after my family. Nor should I have to. That means I often do not go to meetings. I know that some folks in our city measure you by how many meetings you go to. Oh well. I very often have family issues that trump the plethora of meetings going on in our city.

Wake up Sean. The revolution in Santa Ana is well underway – and you are NOT part of it anymore. You and Sal are part of the establishment. And your main goal now seems to be to take out Michele Martinez, even though she is the ONLY Council member who has the huevos to disagree with Pulido and hid cabal from time to time. Sal is just another Pulido hack nowadays.

I hear that folks on the 8th floor are very concerned about Measure D. You can pretend to be nonchalant, but your buddy Sal is freaking out. He and Claudia might win, but all they have done is unite the city in opposition to them and Pulido. It will be the very essence of a Pyhrric victory. However, I do think we are going to prevail.

What side will you fall on when we start collecting signatures for a mayoral term limits ballot measure? I know what side Michele will be on…

Trust me, Sal is not “freaking out” about this. I don’t know who your mole is but they have been giving you bad information. Art the city is much larger than your blogs readership. Please stop building yourself up as some sort of mythical figure that is going to lead the people to the promise land.

Who have you united? Your “No on D” cabal consists mostly of those that hated Sal to begin with. We’ll see tomorrow how powerful your little group is. The “Yes on D” people did not even run a campaign so I would hope that you could defeat them. If you don’t you folks are in some real trouble.

As far as Mayoral term limits I have always supported them as has Sal. I am glad to hear that Michele has come back around to supporting them. She opposed them the last time Sal proposed them.

Thomas Anthony Gordon

February 5, 2008 at 6:10 am

Sean,
are you telling us all that the yes on d crowd did not run a campaign?
what did they do with the 40k they took from judy ware?
the same judy ware who brought her attorney patrick munoz to a meeting yesterday where
he stood up and loudly called the homes in Logan “crummy little houses” and then I reminded
him that people live in those houses and asked for his business card.
patrick munoz told me had no card and proceeded to jump out of his chair
while flipping me off.

Do you actually call what the “yes” side did a “campaign”? I call it pathetic.

The consultant that ran the show for them stole their money. It was horribly planned and not very well run.

Anonymous

February 5, 2008 at 8:49 am

Please keep the only santa ana politics to the santa ana blog, the orange juice.

Back to the orignal point of this post, I still maintain that it is not kosher to show up at a rally for a candidate you are not supporting.

MM is just showing that she is only about herself and being all things to all people.

OCDemoGirl

February 5, 2008 at 9:30 am

Sean, you are part of the problem. Start being a part of the solution. Take your bitterness and head back to OJ. Michele is awesome and you can’t stand anyone who is out trying to make a positive change for Santa Ana. STOP BEING A HATER!

If you don’t like what I write don’t read it. You don’t know anything about me so your opinion is essentially worthless. Your comments are never constructive just attacks on me, so who is the hater?

What have you done to bring positive change to Santa Ana?

I have been involved in the community for over 20 years. The fact that the Ware Disposal issue is at the top of the agenda these days is due in large part to my efforts. What have you done about that?

You are the one that appears to be bitter. I’m not going anywhere so deal with it.

Go stand on a corner a cheerlead for Michele and tell everyone how awesome she is. I’ll be out with the folks from Logan trying to get something done about the Ware Disposal problem.

fiala fan

February 5, 2008 at 10:09 am

liberal oc please fire sean mill all he writes about is how dumb michelle martinez and orange juice is how great sal tinajero is and how dumb anyone who disagrees with him is

OCDemoGirl

February 5, 2008 at 12:26 pm

Sean. If you don’t like Santa Ana, and it is clear that you don’t, please find another city to haunt. And another blog for that matter. You are part of the problem, please offer some positive ideas to help the city rather than just bitch about how much you don’t like Michele. STOP BEING A HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!

I lived here for my entire life and would have left a long time ago if I did not love this city. What are you offering other than attacks on me and cheerleading for Michele?

Again if you don’t like what I write then don’t read it. Your post continue to be mindless blather about nothing. Just look at your venomous attacks on Hillary Clinton. Bringing up Vince Foster and Whitewater. With Dems like you there is no need for the Reeps to attack.

I don’t think I have ever posted that I do not like Michele. You are the one making this personal. Try and work on a new catch phrase. “HATER” is so 90’s.

The best thing that ever happened to me was being disassociated from you and your ridiculous lies.

I prefer to write for a blog that has sane and rational writers and that has a considerably larger readership. On average we get about 400 plus readers more a day than does the OJ.

OCDemoGirl

February 5, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Sean. If you don’t like something, change it. Stop bitching about it. Your entire post was all about you. I challenge you to offer positive solutions to the problems of Santa Ana and working with Michele. That is not mindless blather, but I can see that by attacking me, Michele, Santa Ana, Art, Santa Claus and Jesus Christ himself it is easier than offering hope and ideas. What a sad life you must lead. 90’s terminology? Maybe… But it still rings true. STOP BEING A HATER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Again you have done nothing more than attack me. That is all you have brought to the table.

We get it, you are a cheerleader for Michele.

Please tell me what positive changes that Michele has brought to Santa Ana so I can work with her on them. Please give me a list.

I know that when Michele had fundraisers such as a basketball game and a softball tournament I ponied up cash and gave it to her. Did you?

When Michele needed money to help her retire her debt I ponied up cash and gave it to her. Did you?

Again please tell me what you are doing to bring positive change to Santa Ana. So far all I have seen is attacks upon me, Sal Tinajero, Steve Young and Hillary Clinton.Ã‚Â Did I miss anyone?Ã‚Â

John Hanna

February 5, 2008 at 1:20 pm

Sean–

I was at the SAC event and saw Michelle there. There were other VIP’s that were there who were not necessarily Clinton supporters. Our student trustee, for example, is a Republican who came to see former President Clinton, not to support Hillary.

Whenever a former or current President comes into town people, including electeds, will want to see them whether its a campaign event or a non-campaign event. Frankly, virtually every event with a president or former president–whatever its called–is at least quasi-political. And people will want to see the president. Larry Agran and Miguel Pulido were front and center for President Bush’s visit to Bowers some years ago. It may be a closer call when its a campaign event but it still is per se appropriate barring some other behavior suggesting the person supports the candidate when in fact they do not.

I was in the same area as Michelle and she was not demonstrating any support for Hillary. Most people were aware that she supported Obama. No one seemed to object to her being there. Some were hoping she might change her mind. I don’t think it was hypocritical for her to be there. Just as I don’t think it would be hypocritical if Sal showed up at a Barack Obama rally with former President Jimmy Carter being the headliner.

I was happy to have Sal, Vince, Michelle and Migue(and anyone else I missed) show up as its always an honor(more honor with some than others I grant) to have a former President show up in town, whatever the event.. That’s a non-partisan thing that Michelle gets.

Thanks for the input on this. I understand where you are coming from and I would agree with you if this were not a campaign rally. For example at the Bowers event Bush was there officially as the President and the Mayor and council should be there regardless of party because they are there out of respect for the office.

Yesterday’s event President Clinton was there as a surrogate for Hillary’s campaign. I just don’t feel that the same standards should be applied to this event and the Bowers event.

Like I said yesterday, I doubt Antonio Villaraigosa would show up at an Obama event no matter who was headlining the event.

Well, for starters, Michele Martinez took a leadership role in the fight against Measure D, whereas your boy Sal was a major proponent of Measure D.

You still have not answered my question. Judy Ware gave a ton of $$$ to the Measure D campaign that Sal is heading up, along with Pulido. Why haven’t you taken Sal to task?

It is obvious that this latest attack on Michele is a diversion so that we won’t pester you about Sal, Measure D and Judy Ware. Well, it is not working. Inquiring minds still want to know why you and Sal are so two-faced when it comes to Judy Ware!

At this very moment, 6:50 pm on election day Michele Martinez and David Benavides are making GOTV calls for Obama at the Obama campaign office and have been at it for quite some time. There are pictures to corroborate. I think we can safely lay this discussion to rest. Thanks one and all for your interest…..

Who’s lying now? Sal Tinajero signed the Measure D argument. Besides Pulido he was the ONLY Council Member to do so. You still want to say he was not involved?

If D passes, Irene Ibarra will take out Claudia in November. Then we can say that D had no effect. And Sal won’t survive past his first term anyway. He has already succeeded in pissing off the entire city. I think he would be hard pressed to round up six fans at this point…

I would not gloat too much. We were outspent ten to one and came within 2,000 votes of winning. Almost half the voters said No to Measure D. Tinajero is now connected to Judy Ware and Robert Bisno and that is a fact he cannot hide from.

Dan Chmielewski

February 6, 2008 at 8:12 am

Guys — this string has moved far beyond the commentary for the original post; start a new string or take it outside…..