ENGLISH: A conversation between Jacob Appelbaum, Tor Project, and Heiko Rittelmeier, IT forensics expert with the German police, about whether or not the police in Germany should use anonymization. During the conversation Mr. Rittelmeier explains that the only precaution used is a computer separate from the other police communications infrastructure. Quite hilarious:

Jacob Appelbaum: Do you ever use Tor to google things? Like when you’re using Tor Browser to search the internet using Tor?Heiko Rittelmeier: No.Jacob Appelbaum: Never? So when you do an investigation you connect directly to Google and tell them all the things you’re looking for? So they know that your police department is investigating a crime?Heiko Rittelmeier: No, they won’t, I guess they won’t.Jacob Appelbaum: Because you’re using a different anonymity network?Heiko Rittelmeier: No! It’s just the normal internet connection.Jacob Appelbaum: Ok. So I would really like to encourage you – I mean, I, I never thought this moment would come. But it’s here, it’s here. When you are using the internet and you connect from your office computer to Google – you use Google? Or are you a Bing guy?Heiko Rittelmeier: No, I’m a Google guy.Jacob Appelbaum: Alright, alright, you’re a Google guy. When you connect from your computer to Google Google can see that your computer is connecting to it and it can keep a log of all of your investigative terms and know that your police department is involved in, say, looking up an address, looking up a particular crime. The cookies on your computer but also your log-ins, your IP address, it all ties together.Heiko Rittelmeier: I know but I don’t think so because we, we don’t use the normal working computer to connect to Google.Jacob Appelbaum: But whatever computer you use..Heiko Rittelmeier: It’s a stand alone one and it has its own line to the Internet.Jacob Appelbaum: But does anybody other than the police use it for anything? It’s just you guys that use that stand alone computer, right?Heiko Rittelmeier: Yeah.Jacob Appelbaum: You should install Tor Browser on that computer so nobody knows what you’re doing! <Laughter, applause> I mean, I really never thought the day would come when I would encourage this but here we are. And I mean, imagine for a moment that the NSA knows that computer and they want to know whether or not you’ve uncovered, say, covert CIA agents doing something like they committed a crime, you’re investigating that crime. You don’t know it’s the CIA yet, you’re not helping them .. yet. Like the rest of the time that Germany helps the CIA <Laughter, applause> So you’re doing your job, your investigating that crime, they can see the progress of that criminal investigation while they do mass surveillance on your internet connection. They may not know you’re the police yet but they’ll see their agents name go through the selector, you know, what is it – 40.000 selectors Merkel has that she won’t give to the German people? So they’ll see, they’ll see those selectors and they’ll see that it’s tied to your police department. If you use the Tor Browser they won’t! I really.. I know it’s..Heiko Rittelmeier: Ok, I think there are more in different ways to anonymize, not only using Tor and..Jacob Appelbaum: Well, how would you ex… how should we anonymize ourselves?Heiko Rittelmeier: Well it’s.. the .. I, I think we don’t, we shouldn’t discuss these technical terms here.. there are, I guess we have our ways and they are workingJacob Appelbaum: There you have it. Even the German police have anonymity and they use it. And that’s great. And so shouldn’t we all have it? All power to the people. All anonymous power to the people!