Jeff, you've raised some very valid points here and I agree with you. Most people are struggling to 'accept' something new, they focus too much on the question why a certain grammar structure is correct. It's not important to know why something is correct. What really counts is the fact that you know what sounds good. Yes, you have to develop a feeling for the language. You need to know what sounds good and what doesn't. Don't try to learn grammar rules. We use certain phrases and expressions not because there are grammar rules. Linguists analyze the way people speak and when they detect a pattern, they 'create' a rule. So why waste your time with grammar? Listen to the way people speak, imitate and copy them until you fell comfortable using the exact same phrases they use. Try sounding like them. Do native speakers use their grammar correctly? Yes, at least most of the time. Are native speakers able to explain the grammar rules they follow? No, although they can use the rule correctly, in most cases they can't explain those rules. Why? Simply because you don't need to know a grammar rule in order to use it correctly.

As far as I know, many non-native English speakers are afraid of speaking english because they are worried about using wrong grammar. But in fact, to native Englosh speaker, grammar is not the most important factor to understand what other say. So if you don't know grammar well, it doesn't matter to communicate your ideas. But if you want to express clealy what you mean,you must know grammar well enough.

Just like new-born babis do. They listen, they look, and then they imitate without any hesitation in the grammer.Sometimes, I feel realy stupid to learn quite a few grammer rules.I can't use most of them in daily life.What appear in my communication with other people are always very simple and short praises and idioms.But many students around me care about grammer much more than how well you use them, I mean to speak. Most of them are not able to communicate with english spaeker, what is worse, it seem that they didn't realise the importance of speaking. their pronunciation is not correct, but they just ignore it, they spend a lot of time in the exercises of grammer, discussing a lot of complex questions like they are professors. But the fact is they even can't tell others how they think in a correct way, they are bookworms,for me , it's obvious that this kind of learning way is really not good for english learners.

When studying English, I'm sometimes very much interested in Grammar. I think if I cultivate it by reading and learning the rules of grammar by heart, i would know more about constructions of English in thinking and writing. And then I delve in Syntatic, Oxford Grammar, Collin Cobuild etc., not to mention suring Internet to find more updated documents.
Now I notice that search helps me more or less but not quite really remarkable. Its obviously helpful in writing and understanding the English construction. It equally helps you to work everything with care related to foreign language you've been studying.
But at the same time, it creates barricades in approaching the English language involved. Speaking becomes far slower, reading also cannot faster.. Listening non-native English speakers, I often try to figure out some grammar-related similarities and differences before putting forth comparisons in my mind.
Openmind's quite right. I dont have the feeling of English. And so I unintentionally creates by myself numerous obstacles of getting closer English language.
Most Languists now acknowledge that the interactive environments are very imnportant to expand the foreign language skills of students. And should you have a good language interaction, you would be find it not complicated in referring to Grammar so soon. Right ?

No I totally disagree with you, Grammar for those who are not the native speakers of english and they are living in such a country where the medium of conversation is English then for them it might not mean that much, however for the remaining countries where english is used and learned as a second language, Grammar is very essential since they can differenciate the tenses and formulation of the sentences and vocabulary.

I cannot agree with the statement. Once a person has time and desire to discuss, he is not altogether indifferent to modest science of learning languages. 1. Grammar is needed to those who is going to study another language, even to name a verb a 'verb' in order not to plunge into description of the syntax meaning and role of the word in a sentence. Without common grammar rules we'll study French for years - good French, I mean. 2. Happened to catch a mistake somewhere and joyfully rub hands that have? Be honest: educated speech and writing make us feeling fresh and active while hearing endless slang and interjections sooner or later gives you a headache. 3. Even if we accept that grammar is a prejudice, other prejudices are not better than this one, yet we follow them without further thinking. 4. Think of documents where a comma is found in incorrect place, so that the whole of the paper contents may become perverse in meaning and consequences. Grammar gives us chance to avoid disappointment in cases like that. 5. If a language is your native one, choose to know its grammar to show strangers you love it.

Teaching grammatical rules would be a real waste of time if you don't use them in your spoken sentences. If you only study them as "rules to remeber" but you don't use them in speaking, you will definitely lose them easily and get nothing but wasting your time.

I hate grammar like all students, cuz this is the hardest thing when someone is learning a foreign language. But Im pretty sure dat grammar int a waste of time. Grammar makes our speeches are richer or more advanced. We need to learn grammar, but u know. It isnt pice of cake.

No its not at all waste of time, if you know grammar properly you can speak better than who do not know grammar.However, while speaking you do not need to focus on grammar so much because if you focus so much,it will let you not speak fluently and fluency is the most important thing for speaking