INTERVIEW: No More Empty “Promises”; An Unexpected Look at the Middle East through the Eyes of its C

INTERVIEW: No More Empty "Promises"; An Unexpected Look at the Middle East through the Eyes of its C

INTERVIEW: No More Empty "Promises"; An Unexpected Look at the Middle East through the Eyes of its Children

by Jacque Lynn Schiller

(indieWIRE/ 03.08.02) — As I sat down to talk with two of the filmmakers behind the arresting film “Promises,” I had to straightaway admit that when I received the press notes, it sounded intriguing but I thought, “Oh it’s another story on theMiddle East. I don’t know if I want to watch this right now.” But it turnedout to be a heartbreaking, surprising, and uplifting film — nothing at alllike what I had anticipated. Justine Shapiro, B.Z. Goldberg, and CarlosBolado followed the lives of seven Israeli and Palestinian children and thestrong, often violent emotions they had for one another, despite neverhaving met. And these kids are amazing. Articulate and politically aware yetstill playful, they offer a unique, neglected perspective on the conflict.Their lives have been anything but fun and games, and they realize they willsoon be the adults in charge of securing ever-elusive peace. Hope too oftendies young. Cowboy Pictures will release the Oscar nominee on March 15.

indieWIRE: I know that you’ve probably answered this fifty billion times, but would you please talk a little about your backgrounds and how this project came about. Justine, I know you from the “Lonely Planet” series.

“Most Americans, all they know of the world is what they read in the newspaper or see on TV.”

B.Z. Goldberg: (to Justine) Isn’t that nice when someone knows the program.So many journalists have never heard of the show. They do know it in Europe.

iW: In fact, in the last episode I watched, I remember you were given a soup that you took one taste of then politely passed it on.

Justine Shapiro: Well, I had acted for a long time. And just at the pointwhere I decided I didn’t want to act anymore and I wanted to makedocumentary films, “Lonely Planet” came into my life. It was a greatopportunity to travel the world and since it’s not a scripted show, it wasreally one of those rare experiences that one could have in television whereyou really get to be as much of yourself as you can be in front of a camera.No one was handing me scripts and telling me what to say. The crews werereally small, just five of us and the shoots were four weeks long. Veryintense. My experience of making the show, among many things, [was that] wewould constantly come into contact with stories that I felt could be anhour-long story on their own. I knew even if we spent eight hours shootingit, ultimately the longest sequence is four minutes and most of them arearound two. I was frustrated when I would see the cut of the show. The thing Iloved most about “Lonely Planet” was having the opportunity to meet so manypeople and hear their stories — to have this amazing job where I get to askwhatever question I’d like to ask. That’s such a privileged position to bein. Walk into people’s homes, or wherever they are, and ask whateverquestion I wanted.

iW: It certainly looks like one of the best jobs.

Shapiro: All those people, and again, because the crew was so collaborative,it wasn’t like one of those situations where the director was telling youwhat to wear, where to move, what to say. I think I learned a lot about howto construct a story. But being on camera is not my aspiration, what Ireally wanted to do was make my own documentary. I was constantly on thelook out for something I thought could sustain what I knew would be a longtime. It’s so hard to get money to make films and I knew it had to besomething that would be meaningful to me.

So when I was in Israel and the Palestinian territories, in 1995, I wentearly to meet with my relatives in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. I was sitting inthe kitchen with my little Israeli cousins and very innocently — verynaively — I asked, “Do you have any Palestinian friends?” And they lookedat me like I was their insane cousin from outerspace. Just the concept wasso absurd to them. “They’re disgusting. They’re all terrorists. You can’ttrust them.” So I said, “Do you know any Palestinians?” “No. We don’t needto know them. We see what they do on TV.” And I thought, well I guess whatthey know about the Palestinians is what Americans know too, from watching television.That’s pretty limited.

Then I spent time with young Palestinians and sort of heard the same kind ofvehement opinions about the Israelis, and again without ever meeting. And Ithought, this is interesting. These young kids are so passionate and I’dnever, ever seen that before. One of the things that came up for me a lotwhen I was making “Lonely Planet” was that I’d be getting ready to go tosome country and people would say to me you have to be very careful in thatcountry: there’s a lot of violence in that country; they’re very poor;you’re going to get diarrhea because all the food is mixed with really badwater — I realized that most people’s conception of the world is so farfrom what those places are really about. Most Americans, all they know ofthe world is what they read in the newspaper or see on TV. I think it’s likeonly 11 percent of Americans have valid passports so not that many peopletravel and see things for themselves.

So when I was in Israel and the Palestine territories I thought, I want tobring my experience to a larger audience because I can’t assume that anybodyelse knows these people. And so that was kind of my, “this is something Ithink I can stick with.”

iW: And the two of you already knew each other?

B.Z.: We met around that time, ’95. And my background, I’m going to try toanswer it just for the hell of it, like I’ve never answered it before. Igrew up in Israel, just outside of Jerusalem and there were things I tookfor granted growing up. As an adult, especially in the process of makingthis film and in the wake of it, I look back and think, “That was notexactly normal.” Although, really, what’s normal? My normal childhoodentailed living in a world in which people listened to the news on an hourlybasis. And as a kid, no one had told me this, but I knew that the reason welistened to the news was to find out if anyone we knew had been killed orwounded. Even though it’s strange when today there is violence every singleday, but when I was growing up we knew these incidents by name. There wereso few of them. But that was the world in which I grew up. People werekilled and wounded. I think that is part of the reason I personally was ableto have the kind of tenacity that I needed — this project took us five anda half years from idea to inception.

iW: I was going to ask about that. Was it always planned to be a multi-year endeavor?

Shapiro: No.

Goldberg: We had a really hard time raising money.

Shapiro: We only paid ourselves this year.

Goldberg: To go back, I had a deep curiosity about, what did it take for meto grow up there? What kinds of coping mechanisms as a child would have tobe in place to become a regular, normally functioning adult? I had a friendkilled in an incident known as the “Coastal Road” attack. What in Israelwould be called a terrorist attack or in Palestine they would consider amilitary operation — “freedom fighters.” I was 14 and on the day he waskilled, I was in school and I remember all the boys got together in a circleand we had this conversation. “What should we do?” It was like thegovernment getting together, “how are we going to respond to this?” And weall decided that we were going to kill an Arab. There was a janitor in theschool with a slightly retarded son, and we decided that he would be fairgame. We were only 14 and we were going to kill the janitor’s son. But wenever got around to it. Really, it was like that. We had to make wreaths andgo to the cemetery.

When we were starting, I never really thought, I would really like to do apsychological exploration of what it takes for children in the Middle Eastto grow up. But I think somewhere, for me personally, I must have beenwondering subconsciously what is the difference, what is it like to grow upin the states, or Europe, or this charged environment.

I had many experiences when I was doing TV journalism that made me reallyinterested in kids. I would look and think, well I was once just like them.And they were being portrayed in the media only as victims.

iW: Right. Children are never allowed to talk.

Goldberg: And we noticed, it was the time of the Oslo accords, and all thespeeches that were made talked about the children. “We are doing this forthe children.” Justine and I were hanging out and talking about this idea.Actually Justine had the idea, I felt I would get too emotionally involvedin the subject, that all these people are talking about the children but noone has gone and talked to them — to find out what they think. And at thesame time, everyone was saying it’s going to take years, maybe generations,for there to be peace. It’s not going to happen right now. So who’s going tobe making peace? The people who are now children. Wouldn’t it be interestingto find out where they’re at? Because where they are at today — at thisreally formative age — is going to dictate the future. Frankly, we never say this,but we were also pragmatic. We wanted to make a film that people would see.We were dedicated to make a film that would feel like a feature. We wantedto stay away from the standard, dry strictly educational TV documentary, thekind of film you said you didn’t want to see. This had to be something thatwould keep people riveted. At some point we said, well this is a great idea, but it must have been done before. So we went to look for films and found nothing.

iW: So at that point you knew you had the story.

Goldberg: But I must say, I was arrogant. I had lived there and thought,Justine and I will work on this thing, and I’ll show her around the country.But everyday something would happen that just blew me away. At the end ofthe day, I would think, “I’ve got it. I understand the conflict.” And thenthe next morning we would have a conversation and I would be stumped again.It’s a lot more complex. For all of us, Carlos, Justine, and myself, weexperienced how beautiful, how confusing and rich these intricacies were. Ifwe could give an audience a fraction of that eye-opening feeling it would bea worthwhile film. And do it in a way that is really cinematic — which iswhy Carlos (Bolado) should really be here. He’s such an incredible directorand a really experienced, brilliant editor. He was able to bring life tothis documentary material and create something that breathes and lives. Thepicture is a huge tribute to him and the two years we all worked, battledand struggled together. I think (knocks on wood) we were able to get atleast somewhere near that goal.

“We wanted to stay away from the standard, dry strictly educational TVdocumentary, the kind of film you said you didn’t want to see. This had tobe something that would keep people riveted.”

iW: This is one of those films that I wish everyone would see, especially in the U.S., because there are no cut and dry solutions. What we have been experiencing in Afghanistan, there are belief systems in place that arethousands of years old. We can’t simply say, “Change.”

Shapiro: I think Americans, we are kind of this culture that sort of pointsour finger at the rest of the world: good and evil, good and evil — as ifwe are separate from it. But I believe 9/11 was important for that kind ofconsciousness.

iW: I feel like we again have a false sense of security, however. When the twins in the films spoke of their fears about getting on the bus, not knowing if it might be blown up, that is a true reality they must live with everyday.

Shapiro: There’s a kind of labeling, and I know that’s what people do tojustify war — there must an enemy. But you know, life is just not a Hollywood movie. I think one of the big motivations behind making this film was also researching and finding how the Middle East was being defined. It’s like a football game.

With “Promises” a lot of people asked, “What’s your agenda? You’re two Jewsfrom the liberal Bay area, is this a pro-Palestinian film?” Then thePalestinians think, “Two Jews making a film, it must be pro-Israeli.”

Goldberg: If we had an agenda, it was curiosity and awareness.

Shapiro: I must have sounded unconvincing to so many people, funders, whenI would say this is really a character study. We to humanize the “enemy”. Wewant you to have the same relationship with these kids as we did. And wewanted to show their humor and the mercurial change from day to day of, “Wehate Palestinians or we hate Jews.” When Faraj decided to call the twins, wewere utterly amazed.

iW: Was it really that spontaneous, his decision to make contact?

Goldberg: We were not prepared. Down to the question of how we would mike aphone call? We taped a wireless mike to the back of the phone and hoped itwould pick up.

Shapiro: When we showed the Polaroids we were thinking, well maybe some ofthem will be interested in meeting. But Faraj was like, “I don’t want tomeet an Israeli. They killed my friend.” So when suggested to call thetwins, we couldn’t dick around. He could have changed his mind the next day.

Goldberg: We tried to be open and remain interested and try to understandthe people populating this land that has basically been a bad neighborhoodfor the last four thousand years.

Shapiro: And B.Z., Carlos and I come from such unlike backgrounds that wewere all curious about different things — answers for three very differentpeople. I think that’s one of the strengths of the film. It is sort of likea prism on every situation.

iW: And what has the feedback been?

Shapiro: The thing that has made me feel really good about the film has beenthe feedback from both Israelis and Palestinians that the film has managedto be unbiased.

Goldberg: And the most surprising thing was Israelis and Palestinians comingup and saying they themselves, who live 15 minutes away from each other,didn’t have a clear understanding of the checkpoints and the feelings of theother side. There was a cognitive dissonance.