"Die Glocke" - The Past Present of a Possible Future

As a foreword I begin this topical-specific "Die Glocke" thread posting with an altruistic and ethical hope of bringing some co-operative synthesis of perspective to the UFO Magazine Forum in regard to this specific and enigmatic powerful device. This forum can serve as an online community research "hot house" in this endeavor.

The past is a gift or present upon which the present and possible futures fold and unfold and to ignore the past is looking a Gift-horse in the mouth and does little to expand the body of knowledge and clarity of thesis.

That being said, this discussion forum topic is truly a wonder of puzzlement encompassing many disciplines and I welcome collegial assistance moving forward.

More than a few facts which may or may not be of coincidence have made themselves perceptibly discernable and without the previous, present and future contextual works of research on "Die Glocke" may slip away into the dark waters of time not to be used for the good of positive enlightenment.

I look forward to contributing to the rather "out of the way" facts, perceptions and hypothesis as they develop and I hope other peers would too.

To those who would serve to crack open the liberty of The Bell's secrets for the benefit of all I wish good-hunting; for without the hunters and gatherers there will be no dinner. I for one, and many others have the hunger to discover.

The "Die Glocke" or Bell device(s) - what do we know? What can be established as fact? What can be reasonably speculated upon as to it's manifest origins of inspiration, conceptual framework, design, engineering, manufacture, experimentation, production, testing, development, purpose and/or purposes given the two pre-cursor questions?

If a reasonable case can be made for it's existence in any form no matter how slight in that era then it certainly begs the obvious question; What was it's future relative to what may or may not have "disappeared" or gone culturally "Black"?

With the recent research that's been forwarded suggesting a potential link between the December 9 1965 Kecksburg Pennsylvania 4:45PM event and the "Die Glocke" bell device or perhaps it's derivative incarnation in some form it could make the possibility of not yet considered possibilities more possible.

The UFO Hunters 2009 TV broadcast about nazi UFOs on The History Channel brought this potential link or links to my attention in a way I previously had definitely not to that point considered. Thank you to the UFO Hunters team - high fives all-round. Perhaps the opportunity will come along to repay the favor. YouTube links will follow at the end of this post for those who have an interest but can't get the TV broadcast

I will choose to assume that readers of this UFO Magazine forum will already have familiarized themselves with at least some background on "Die Glocke" or Bell device and acknowledge the assumption that such a device existed at some point in that era's history.

First contribution. Where to start? Bells. Did Germany have bells of any type that had symbolic depictions around the bell rim?

Bells and their shape, manufacture, construction and physical properties have long held symbolic and cultural meanings and this was no different in Germany.

"Die Glocke" was said to have symbols depicted on it's lower rim in most if not by all accounts I've come across. Was there any precedence for these depictions that might suggest a genesis of tradition if not in fact the requirement that "Die Glocke" devices would remain true to this format and depiction history? Something where one can point and say "this is a bell in Germany during that era."

The 1936 Olympic Bell has quite a history - it's Gothic writings and depictions would lend some weight to the fact that Germany had bells and that there was writing depicted on it and that it was important culturally. A photo seems appropriate and this is just one of many available on the internet.

There is some evidence to the effect that which is depicted in the above photo was supposed to be a Gothic text and perhaps font but I do not entirely recognize some of the characters. I found a reference on the internet in Google Books that seems a reasonable account of what is written.

A quote:

"The most celebrated detail of the bell came to be that band of Gothic script around the sound bow that declared the XIth Olympiad would be in Berlin and, set forth the cheeky legend "Ich rufe die jurgend der Welt", which the Nazis in their publicity releases of 1935 (just as the American movement for a boycott was becoming well noted) translated as "I summon the youth of the World."

Beyond the quote the same reference also has a bit more of the significant historical implications that this specific German bell connotes and denotes in the tension of the era, it's about three pages (pp 125, 4 through pp 128, 2) and was personally worth the reading. A link to the Google books page about "The Nazi Olympics By Richard D. Mandell", published by University of Illinois Press, 1987, ISBN 0252013255, 9780252013256, 316 pages.

Perhaps another forum member knows and or recognizes the font - I look and I do not see "Ich rufe die jurgend der Welt" written but I am not a linguist but I'm always willing to learn.

It would seem reasonable in light of the above photo that bells with writing on them existed in Germany at that time and suggests that writing said to be on "Die Glocke" may be important in understanding the cultural nature of the manufacturers if not the specific message or information written.

It would also seem reasonable that whatever may have been depicted on "Die Glocke" is significant enough for the manufacturers to have been included in the design at an early stage.

I'll speculate that it was a statement of purpose or a mission statement about the device and that whatever it was saying in whatever form had symbolic meaning beyond the strict functionality of the device.

Much thought has been given by others over the years to those who channeled as mediums for the various secret societies of Germany and to assume that the depictions were truly meant to be read by those who'd be able to read it says something of it's exclusivity if not secrecy of meaning. For those with a positive interest I'll include a link to an Austrian-produced hour-long Google Video "2007 - UFO - Secrets Of The Third Reich - Royal Atlantis Film GmbH" at the end of this post (thoroughly enjoyable). This 57 minute long video speaks of the trans-medial channel-people and claims that the mediums such as Maria Orsitsch (Orsic) amongst others wrote from altered perceptual states in the Sumerian alphabet and secret scripting codes of The Knights Templar, Thule, Vril and "other".

Enough for now, more when time allows,

Fix'

P.S. Did you ever wonder where, besides South America, Russia, The United States and perhaps Antarctica other high-value German scientific personnel related to "Die Glocke" and other projects may have found themselves during the Cold-War? I did.

Where would the best/easiest-possible Earthly mathematical, geographic, geomagnetic, geopolitical, geologically stable and geometrically advantageous location be for testing a device with the purported phenomenal and not-well-understood, possibly hazardous field properties of "Die Glocke" - a site with the most resources, safety and plausible-deniability "cover" to continue covert development whilst refining and testing such devices and their derivatives? Where?

Where might the mathematics "naturally push" as a best-spot, during the age of analog electro-mechanical instrumentation; before the onboard digital avionics computer age, such a device to be further developed beyond a nascent "we're not sure how to control it" understanding? The Poles? The Equator? What hemisphere? At what most convenient degree of latitude? What meridian of longitude is the Kecksburg event site? I wonder what facilities might have been between the Kecksburg site and the North Pole as the crow flies at that time? Where?

"There is geometry in the humming of the strings, there is music in the spacing of the spheres.", Pythagoras

I wonder who may have owned that particular "get-your-hands-dirty" facility - especially if that heavy-duty, nicely equipped and secure relatively remote facility was already run by a company known to have several designs of saucer-inspired craft and a history of "Special Projects", and whose chief designer had a classified and turbulent relationship with the U.S. military and another friendly, neighborly, co-operative sovereign nation (deep breath), who also had a keen interest in UFO and could have been privy to "Die Glocke" technology amongst other less advanced and perhaps intentionally unsuccessful propulsion techniques through interviews with German scientists in many fields? Who? Who leads to where sometimes - I hope.

"Hope is nature's veil for hiding truth's nakedness.", Alfred Nobel

“We all boil at different degrees”, Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I like mine over the rocks at 45 degrees; Frosty.", Fix'

"Hide 'it' in plain sight.", William J. Birnes, the publisher of UFO Magazine speaking in regard to "dark" facilities and projects.

The "Glocke" is a subject that can only be speculated at as the scientists who worked on it were executed as the Allies approached the area. I also think the episode on UFO Hunters showed the structure to be a frame of a water tower, and that is a good find. It may not be what people want to hear or believe, but it is the most probable answer.

One of the reasons I do not think the Kecksburg "acorn" craft/probe is a Bell type experiment is that it would of had markings on it from the US Government to identify it. That is not the case according to the witnesses. Project Moon Dust was activated to retrieve this item, according to Major Kevin Randle's research. Project Moon Dust is not activated for something that is ours.

I also do not think the Glocke was a flying craft, but an experiment that dealt in space and time. From what has been gathered, it was a very dangerous experiment that dealt with high voltages of electricity killing a few of the scientists and other workers. Since we are not speaking German, it can be safe to state that no time travel was accomplished. They may have been able to view past events, such as the ancient Roman times or possibly seen the time of the dinosaurs. Again, speculation, but fun to do.

While the experiments and the ideas of the Nazis are fascinating, the vast majority of them did not get past the drawing board. The funding for the projects was not there, and the Nazis tended to spread the wealth which created much more failure than success. The expense of the war was a high cost not only in monetary terms, but mainly in people. The Allies cut off much of the supplies to the Nazis, and there were many multiples of freedom fighters making sure the Nazis did not plunder too much from the lands they occupied.

This is a fascinating subject, but can only be speculated at as there is very little documentation left on what the Glocke really was.

Hi kidflash2008, thanks for your input. I'd had, and still retain some of the reservations that you've expressed in your comment/reply post. Plus, I do indeed have a great many other reservations - mostly about people involved and deception. I'll explain as time passes. Your post makes salient reasonable points and I appreciate the effort even though I may have my own research path to follow.

"The "Glocke" is a subject that can only be speculated at as the scientists who worked on it were executed as the Allies approached the area."

I agree that as many as sixty "get-their-hands-dirty" scientists and technicians were murdered by the SS.

I also think the episode on UFO Hunters showed the structure to be a frame of a water tower, and that is a good find. It may not be what people want to hear or believe, but it is the most probable answer.

I agree that the Fly Trap may indeed may have had a water reservoir on it's superior surface, however research by others (that I intend to cite in a later post) does make note of a significant conduit that leads to the center of the Fly Trap. British aerial reconnaissance from the 1941 - 1942 time-frame might clarify the existence of such a reservoir and reveal more about any potential role the "Henge" may have or may not have played in testing the Bell or other devices.

One of the reasons I do not think the Kecksburg "acorn" craft/probe is a Bell type experiment is that it would of had markings on it from the US Government to identify it.

Markings of any known agency would certainly have been mentioned by claimed witnesses Rosanski, Bulebush or perhaps Blystone and certainly would have risked overt disclosure of that which may have been understandably an unacknowledged program if such a program existed or exists at all.

"Project Moon Dust was activated to retrieve this item, according to Major Kevin Randle's research. Project Moon Dust is not activated for something that is ours."

Yes, the Moon Dust personnel were certainly "Johnny-on-the-Spot" and on short notice too. Perhaps they were given a little advance warning something was headed their way so to speak. I will have more to add on this in a subsequent post at some point.

I also do not think the Glocke was a flying craft, but an experiment that dealt in space and time.

I agree that "Die Glocke" was not a device built with conventional flight in mind and I also agree with you that it may have had some effects in 4-space.

From what has been gathered, it was a very dangerous experiment that dealt with high voltages of electricity killing a few of the scientists and other workers.

I concur entirely about the presence of danger and thank you for pointing out the high-voltage nature as I will refer to that necessity at least a few times on this particular thread. Some contend "Die Glocke" had componentry that may have released ionizing radiation amongst it's other local effects and I find this of genuine interest.

Since we are not speaking German, it can be safe to state that no time travel was accomplished.

I tend to agree with you kidflash2008 - at least to this point in my research.

They may have been able to view past events, such as the ancient Roman times or possibly seen the time of the dinosaurs. Again, speculation, but fun to do.

Other research echoes this - I do not know and I am firmly skeptical of such claims; until I see some sort of evidence - no matter how slight. I personally am always happy to be mistaken when it leads to a firmer understanding of a truth.

While the experiments and the ideas of the Nazis are fascinating, the vast majority of them did not get past the drawing board.

My mind is open on this but one never really knows until one satisfies their personal curiosity.

I'll go into it in more depth another day but here's a bit on an atomic scientist placement from a publicly accessible link to a publicly funded national radio news piece from June 5 1947 - German Scientists Come to Canada through Operation Matchbox. Click here for the link.

A quote from the sidebar information at the link:

"Under the program name Operation Matchbox, the Allied forces recruited top-notch German scientists at the end of the Second World War. By October 1950, 42 German scientists had moved to Canada. The scientists were screened by a British military and civilian panel and were given temporary migrant status for one year in Canada."

Once again thanks for the contribution kidflash2008 and cheers,

Fix'

P.S. I'm a bit fatigued so I'll post what I wanted to post this evening another time.

My question would be is why did the SS execute so many scientists who were working on the project we only know as the Bell? Were they afraid the scientists would fall in the hands of the Soviets, and would have preferred the United States instead? Or was it because it was something that would have been very damning to the Nazis?

Jim Marrs does not have too much information on what the Bell was. He did find out about the execution of the scientists, and also finds some mysterious shipments of what could be atomic bombs. Those atomic bombs could have been the ones we used on Japan, and he makes the case for that argument quite well.

Saucer technology did not work, as it was very unstable to fly and never got over six feet off the ground.

Since the majority of the work on the Bell was done in the bunker like areas inside the mountain, I would speculate it did not have anything to do with flight. The electrical energy they needed (that was fatal to a few scientists) does suggest the magnetic theory. Gravity, magnetism, and electricity may have to do with either a new energy source, or a very powerful weapon. Since I believe the Secret Weapon was the atomic bomb, then the Bell was not a weapon to blow things up. Here are a few things the Bell could been:Teleportation: moving items from one area to another. This could be used to move troops and supplies without worry of the transport method being destroyed. That would also of changed the course of the war if possible.Wormhole technology: Another way to teleport items and people. Also a way to see the past and a possible future. Wormholes allegedly bend time too.Deathray: The basic death laser that could destroy a building or possibly a city.

The above are just some of the possibilities of what the scientists could have been working on. Hopefully, some of the documents of what it was survived the destruction.

"Saucer technology did not work, as it was very unstable to fly and never got over six feet off the ground."

I'd be happy if it got six feet of altitude no matter how unstable - but "Die Glocke" would not appear to be a "saucer craft". However, if it was any sort of a field producing device that had any mass cancellation properties of any sort it could be seen as a potential step toward accessing a propulsive force of some description even if that was not by intention of those who built the device - serendipity in research.

If the Sporrenberg war crimes affidavit existed then it may still exist - dead scientists and technicians can't help but there is always the possibility of archived documents coming to light in the future.

For now I'll stay with the assumption stipulated earlier - that for the purposes of this thread "Die Glocke" existed.

The connection to Kecksburg postulated by some and points that kidflash2008 has raised have produced a couple of useful bits I'll add to my perspective on the Dec 9 1965 Kecksburg event. If it was a human manufactured derivative of the "Bell" it had to come from somewhere on this planet. The earliest sightings of the Kecksburg aerial phenomenon are reportedly from Canada.

kidflash2008 has raised the valid concern about the Kecksburg device having no known governmental agency markings like "USAF" or "DOE" adorning it and therefore (if I understand the reasoning used correctly) could not be a project of any known government agency. I gave that some thought and found at least two projects of the United States of America that were at one time covert but in US Military control that would appear to have even less markings than the Kecksburg body.

The first example is from the 1970's and was a Joint USAF-DARPA project involving low-observability and what is commonly referred to as "stealth technology". The name of that Northrup project was "Tacit Blue". Here is a link to it's fact sheet at Wright-Patterson AFB Museum site if one clicks on the available photos and looks one can't readily see markings of any type on the craft. This craft was piloted by US military personnel Col. Don Cornell ,Lt. Col. Russ Easter, Lt. Col. Ken Dyson and Maj. Dan Vanderhorst. Please click here to view the fact sheet and photos at the national museum of the US air Force. or click the following numbers to open the photos of Tacit Blue: 1, 2, 3, 4. I do not see any markings, however I'm always prepared to be made aware of any.

The second example is a bit humorous considering some of the discounted theories regarding an SR-71 engine nacelle and the Kecksburg event but what I'll cite as "unmarked" is from the same era as Kecksburg - there was the highly classified USAF-Lockheed Tagboard program at one time called D-21. Some versions (perhaps all) of this UAV were unmarked by military service insignia. Click here to see a large photo of the D-21. There is a video from 1966 involving a D-21 and it's SR-71 derived MD-21 mother ship during a fatal accident if one searches YouTube for "MD-21 crash" so the timeframe is close to The Kecksburg event.

A third lesser example (it has large numbers on it) is the Lockheed Sea Shadow - at one time it carried no markings of service insignia but it may now carry more markings - theses are examples of unmarked covert projects paid for and manned by forces of the US military and "other" agencies and corporations. To view the picture of the Sea Shadow to which I refer click here.

For my own research I will choose to accept that at least some covert US sponsored projects are unmarked.

Just the claimed glyphs around the perimeter of the base of the "acorn" or "bell" as described by Blystone, Bulebush and Rosanski are the only markings mentioned as kidflash2008 has pointed out.

An aside: Bylstone has actually used the word "bell" specifically when describing it's silhouette under the tarp on the military flatbed as it transported "something" away from the site. He may have been the first to do so on video.

If one wanted to dissuade or plausibly deny the notion of ownership of the body recovered in Kecksburg what better way to take advantage than by machining some not easily deciphered symbols into the outer surface that suggest "alien" or some" lost tongue"?

I say machined and by that I mean "cut" into the surface that had the glyphs displayed - as such a device as "Die Glocke" or it's potential 1960's derivative may have generated significant surface temperature so that painted markings would not be durable. The glyphs "could" be communication of a type perhaps that of Sumerian text or Templar or Vril code but at this time I'm inclined to lean toward the glyphs as being potentially a disinformative "red-herring" of a human manufacturer wishing anonymity for themselves.

I also came across two USAF rocket launches in Canada on December 9th 1965 that to my best knowledge were not reported in regard to Kecksburg by any source so far even to eliminate them as possibly involved. One rocket launch into space occurred at 3:33PM Eastern time and another was launched at 5:15PM Eastern from a site at 58°44'4.20"N 93°48'56.60"W in Canada. The second occurs too late to be of any interest and the first doesn't help my research any at this time but I don't discount that someone (perhaps with an ETH angle to their research) could make use of this knowledge. The first one was a Nike Cajun rocket on a "Sphere Aeronomy" mission and has AFCRL listed as the sponsoring US military agency involved. It reached apogee at 86 miles altitude.

One other bit was found today - Operation Matchbox brought at least 55 German scientists and technicians to Canada (perhaps more) which I found strange considering the US operation called Paperclip claims over 200 were brought to the USA. This number of 55 going to Canada seems comparatively high and possibly anomalous. I will try and get some better numbers and government documented confirmation at some point. The bit I found said the following:

"In March 1987, Canada's Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals (also known as the Deschênes Commission) recommended the investigation of 55 German scientists and technicians who came to Canada as part of Operation Matchbox. The operation presented a serious security problem in as much as those scientists might well have been involved in the Nazi war effort."

The Deschênes Commission came to a conclusion with the result of discouraging further investigation.

So it would seem that at least one German "radiation chemist" (a dated term) came to Canada in 1947 and other scientists of different disciplines followed. It would also seem that not all projects of the US military get markings identifying them as such. It would also seem that on the day Kecksburg occurred US military forces launched a rocket into space from Canada which demonstrates such activity has a history.

Where on Earth, if what was found in Kecksburg was built by the hand of man, could such a device have had as a point of origin?

The rocket launches in Canada on December 9 1967 were by the US Air Force Cambridge Research Laboratory and the particular launch applicable to the timeframe of Kecksburg what was called a "Sphere Aeronomy" mission - interesting subject matter. Magneto-ionic coupling and triple splitting of waves and the like.

To my surprise I projected the flight path of the Kecksburg object along the line taken from the Joseph Farrell published "Reich of the Black Sun" on page 341 and it points to the launch facility those two rockets came out of. There is an interesting colonial fort there - unusual geometry when viewed from above.

An exact quote from Farrel:

"And finally, there is yet another odd point that may connect the Keckburg Acorn to the Kammler Bell. We have already seen that some "Nazi survival myths" have a secret German base close to the Arctic, operating at a remote location in Canada near Hudson Bay. While I discount the idea, it is perhaps worth noting that the trajectory of the Kecksburg Acorn as it tracked from Canada into the US to its final crash site in Pennsylvania, would, if extended north into Canada, place it along a line more or less where the "Arctic Nazi survival myth" places the alleged secret German base."

I'm not yet ready to accept that the trajectory on the map is accurate and I've not yet attempted to gather and compile any sighting locations and chronology independently. There are some other potentially complicating aspects in regard to the trajectory and certain reports don't seem to fit in a clear manner as there were other atmospheric events at or about the time in question. There's not much in the way of electricity supply in the community where the rocket launch site is.

I went through the Herzburg Institute Non-Meteoric phenomena reports for the time and didn't find a thing (it could be there under an unlikely listing) but there are the DND, RCMP and Department of Transport databases to be looked at when time allows. A first or early sighting most Northerly in Canada would be helpful.

I did some searches on The Defense Research Board of Canada to see what the Canadian Military might have been pursuing in 1967. I found many interesting projects. Here's just one:

From a corporate website:"Uranium deposits are found all over the world. The largest deposits of uranium are found in Australia, Kazakhstan and Canada. High-grade deposits are only found in Canada." Source: Cameco.

I do not at this time entertain the notion the rocket launching facility was "the works" for "Die-Glocke" development and it's follow-on devices - I have a much better fitting place in mind that wasn't too far from a reactor facility whose main product is specialty radioactive isotopes.

If the Kecksburg object was one of ours, it still would of had a marking on it to identify it if it ever crashed. Even the most Top Secret craft would of had some types of markings, just so people who worked on it knew the serial numbers.

Static Displays at museums sometimes get a new coat of paint. The serial numbers are not used anymore, so they may get painted over. I remember working on "demilitarizing" a B-52 for a static display. All the components are removed and the plane is usually repainted. The Buffs would usually keep their jet numbers, and also have the original art work repainted on it for historical purposes.

NASA tracked the Soviet satellite and shows it fell in the Indian Ocean. It also would of tracked the other rocket launches by other countries. It should be in their public record.

I also was discussing this case with my mother, who is a navy veteran. She worked with classified crypto messages and knows a thing or two about the military way. We both know that this case and Roswell just do not make sense when one looks at it through a military point of view. With the Cold War going on in the sixties, any craft that would of been the bell would be run by the military.

It does seem strange that I am advocating that the Kecksburg acorn is alien in origin. There are many questions about Kecksburg that need to be answered. There are many questions about the Glocke, and one of the major ones is why were the scientists who worked on it executed?

Thanks kidflash2008, I understand your position about the markings or lack thereof on covert US projects. I do not agree with you. I choose not to contend the point as I have made my position clear with three examples; if you'd like to, please get in touch with James Goodall, Nick Cook or Bill Sweetman on that point - particularly about the US Air Force-DARPA program called Tacit Blue - they "could" choose to agree with you. I'm done with that part for this thread in my own mind until I'm shown absolute evidence to the contrary. We do agree that the only markings were the glyphs? I've never made any other contention on this thread so I hope we are in agreement. The "bumper"' area of the Kecksburg body is very important - but not so much for the markings or glyphs.

I neither support the Kecksburg event as being alien or human of origin at this time - but for the purposes of this specific thread (as stated several times) I am looking for indications to perhaps clarify that by making the arbitrary assumption; "what if it were of human origins". If you feel strongly that is not a reasonable assumption for the purposes of speculation kidflash2008 then perhaps create a separate thread to that effect - that's why I put qualifiers in what I proposed - to avoid useless and wasteful haggling with those of opinion "other" over the most minor of minutiae having no real impact in any meaningful or positive manner. I've had enough of that observed behavior from my time at RMC and other sites on the Net and I do intend to enjoy myself this late in life.

You mention Cosmos 96 - I have a Space-Track screen capture and other ephemeris data that would support the notion that Cosmos 96 was not involved and I may post it at some point but it just seems a bit without use. A link to Space-Track Login for those who may wish to confirm. For me, Cosmos 96 is a non-starter.

Your mom and I agree then - the US military would be actually "running the show" if of human origins. More on that later. Wink. I'm not disappointed that I could not persuade you a little more effectively in regard to my position of the US military not always being "as advertised" and 'with markings" but you do disclose your relationship to the military so your position of dwell on this one small aspect is understood and accepted if not agreed with.

I was going to post about some aspects of the potential interaction between "Die Glocke" technology (based on some reasonable assumptions put forward by others) and time-space and what that interaction might "look" like and whether there any valid scientifically researched and peer-reviewed helpful conceptual models that might possibly apply but pausing to pay respect to kidflash2008 (not a bother) in this post has my "frame dragging" the event boundary like Glatzmaier of LANL. LOL. No rush. no hurry, no worries - maybe tomorrow. Maybe I'll do the Schauberger stuff first or some neat stuff by and about Faget that might help. Time's up for now but I'll be "then" again sooner or later.

Cheers.

Fix'

Last edited by Fixer on Wed May 06, 2009 6:49 pm; edited 4 times in total (Reason for editing : Edited for spelling and a hyperlink correction.)

In regards to the markings: It is possible they may have something with no markings noticed up front. One would have to closely examine the craft to find the markings. I should clarify that you may not be wrong on this one, but I also think the military would want someone to call them should they lose their equipment.

I also do not think they would test any highly classified craft or item in any other area except the desolate areas they have such test facilities. That is why I think the Phoenix boomerang sightings are not ours as there are many areas to test fly an aircraft, and a metropolitan area is not one of them.

I am also sure the US government and military are also trying to figure out what the Glocke was.

I also want to thank you for doing such tireless research in one of the more fascinating areas of research. The Nazis were fairly good at destroying many records before anyone reached the bases. What survives are bits and pieces, and the few people willing to talk of the subjects. Remember, it is still taboo to state one worked for the Nazi war effort. I think that dampens the knowledge and release of information until some death bed confessions.

There is an excellent interview with Jim Marrs in UFO magazine #149. He even talks a bit about the Glocke, which is also featured in his book "The Rise of the Fourth Reich". I think you would enjoy it, Fixer.

Well said, kidflash2008. "Die-Glocke", if such a device existed at all and it's biologically expressed local-effect results claimed by Witkowski via an unnamed Polish agent's account of Sporrenberg's alleged affidavit is a hint of the type of energies that can be prodded from reality - if only partly by accident, then that seems in keeping with the "energy" theme and would reasonably have the interest of the German High Command.

It would seem a potential possibility that Viktor Schauberger and the German Third Reich's atomic scientists may have crossed paths? Maybe; their mathematics sure would have - the goal to minimize the critical mass needed for fissionable chain-reaction was "top shelf" stuff. Schauberger's work does hold the promise of exposing matter to "vakuum" in more ways than a simple lack of atmosphere. Wink. Naked neutrons.

Did Frost and Sir Peter Horsley ever cross paths? Oh my. Six degrees - 360o. More after STS-125 is "up".

Cheers, (I enjoy Jim Marrs too.)

Fix'

Last edited by Fixer on Mon May 11, 2009 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Grammar)

The launch of a Nike Cajun rocket out of Churchill Manitoba just before the Kecksburg event at about 4:45PM December 9, 1965 was an Auroral launch and the Sphere Aeronomy missions were to do with magnetospheric and ionospheric observations. These December 9, 1965 observations are buried in the AFCRL (Air Force Cambridge Research Labs) archives and remain unavailable to me at this time.

Using one of the three approximations I've found so far of the Kecksburg object's terminal-phase trajectory, it would seem to originate on a line that passes very close to the rocket launch facility at Churchill Manitoba. The "Polar Bear Capital of The World" (Churchill) offers a great security environment - all overt approaches are controlled by the terrain and limited means of access and those that are not so overt are frequented by bears (when they are not in one of three Polar Bear jails).

Could "Die-Glocke" or more specifically a follow-on development 1960's device built after "Die-Glocke" have originated at Churchill? Maybe; some circumstances would seem favorable and some less-so. A straight line on a map is not all that convincing and at some point I may have better trajectory data to work with. A friend is trying to knit some maps together with some overlays of existing "paths" to show the extrapolation of various potential flight paths from Canadian airspace into Kecksburg PA - that could take some time, and the conflicting "Ontario Meteor" data is an unwelcome complication that needs an accounting.

Some graphics may help others with the Churchill site and it's features, and to my personal satisfaction some seem of note with only one "problem"; hydro-electric availability. Even today although Manitoba does have two of the highest voltage transmission lines in the world (PDF link) - I can't put them "into" Churchill until 1973 at this point in my research. In 1965 the transmission lines into Churchill were no where near the 1 MV and 0.9 MV DC lines of today if any transmission lines were present at all - I don't see any on the maps I've looked at so far. My research is not complete but it seems that in 1965 the community may have used an oil-burning electrical-generation plant. It is a great place for a geomagnetic observatory, a deep-water port, has rail access, and at the time a US Army Military installation called Fort Churchill that has a very heavy-duty airport runway for such a small community and as a bonus had a "not-well-known" but "not hidden" rocket launch complex. Wink.

Otherwise, Churchill lacks the technological support infrastructure one might associate with something like "Die-Glocke"; this is not the Lockheed "Skunk Works" with 4500 employees there, but that is not to say that by 1965 huge amounts of infrastructure "would" have been necessary or desirable during testing of such a device for that particular very remote location. But there could have been such resources available elsewhere.

Churchill "could" be involved with the Kecksburg event but my feeling is that it may have been in some support or other ancillary capacity.

Fort Prince of Wales:Isn't the Prince of Wales' mom the Head of the House of Windsor? Isn't her husband a UFO aficionado? Wasn't his highly decorated, late, assassinated cousin also interested in UFO study? Isn't there an historical relationship between House Windsor and Germany? Weren't they once the House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha? Are they not of the House of Hanover lineage? LOL.

By some accounts (if not all) "Die-Glocke" had an activation energy level that required both high-voltage and significant current. DC voltage can always be transformed, rectified, stepped-up and switched (amongst other permutations) but amperage is what performs the work - "Die-Glocke" may have been a "thirsty beast" in many ways.

I wonder where one might find 100,000-165,000 Amp field-aligned current and a voltage in the 100MV range? Perhaps "Die-Glocke" had a potential to access those sort of Joules? Or perhaps it "attracts" that order of magnitude of purely electrical "interest" from it's environment? Wink. A field of fields in the weathered spirals of space and time.

"Die-Glocke" would seem at some level about energies of high enough strata to be worth the risk of pursuing - "up a notch" from nuclear and potentially much more "green" in delivery and yet, if put "not in the best hands", could be the ultimate weapon. An accident looking for a place to happen? A lightning-rod for disaster? Or a "lightning-rod" of a different sort?

An exploitation of a "dark" secret of the natural order of the universe(s) "could" be perceived as valuable enough by some to be "worth" all the security and potential subterfuge, alleged executions, human smuggling, human experimentation, slave labor and expense - not to mention the extreme technical requirements.

The Kecksburg event demonstrates the sort of "interest-level" that may be involved by various agencies and non-agencies of various governments and non-governmental concerns as many first-hand witness testimonies support.

The earliest Vril-work (the first two years of testing) has my eye as the "kernel" technology on which "Die-Glocke" may have been built to expand and build upon into other fields and effects.

More after the Hubble EVA.

Fix'

P.S. To add: Kosmos 96 information.

The Space Track orbital decay data:

Two photos of the 3 foot diameter Venera-generation descent module and another with it's support components:

A PDF link to the Leslie Keane 2003 work for "The Coalition for Freedom of Information" where Nicholas, L. Johnson of NASA JSC found:

"Johnson examined the orbital data for Cosmos 96 and was able to calculate when it would have passed over Pennsylvania if it had been in orbit that day. The time, when it traveled from North to South, was at approximately 6:20 am. The Kecksburg object came down at 4:45 p.m. “I can tell you categorically, that there is no way that any debris from Cosmos 96 could have landed in Pennsylvania anywhere around 4:45 p.m.,” said Johnson in an interview on October 10, 2003. “That’s an absolute. Orbital mechanics is very strict.”

The US Space Command reported in 1991 that Cosmos 96 crashed in Canada at 3:18 a.m. Johnson does not have information about the time of demise of Cosmos 96, but he did confirm that it was over Canada at this time.

One part of Cosmos 96 could not have stayed in orbit until 4:45 p.m. after the object came apart hours earlier, as some had speculated."

Excellent finding of some very interesting information. Project Moon Dust would have been activated to retrieve such a probe. However, I do think that it would possibly be declassified by today.

There has also been a highly classified name from the Canadian Defense that was leaked recently (I cannot remember the name, but I believe Ice was in it). Can you find out more about this? Is there any speculation on what type of highly classified work the Canadian Defense could be doing? (Possibly related to HAARP?)

I do know that governments have a lot of secret programs going on, so there is no telling what kind of information would be found out.

"There has also been a highly classified name from the Canadian Defense that was leaked recently (I cannot remember the name, but I believe Ice was in it). Can you find out more about this? Is there any speculation on what type of highly classified work the Canadian Defense could be doing? (Possibly related to HAARP?)"

I know of no on-going investigation of any enlisted-person in the Canadian military or any of recent memory in regard to information leaks. There was a case that effectively "closed" CFB Shelburne (it's automated now) in 1984 or 1985 to do with Russians and lesbianism and some key control staff. Yes, the same Shelburne as mentioned in relation to Shag Harbour back in '67.

I do know of potential leaks directly attributable to the previous Minister of Defense (Bernier) and some NATO planning and briefing documents were in fact left unsecured for 5 weeks with a very interesting woman who is in "the security business" and whose former and now deceased spouse was a "patched" Hell's Angel. Her name is Julie Coulliard - and like so many others has "a tell-all" book. By all estimations no critical NATO-data was lost. Wink.

Very recently Canadian Forces did have an intel officer (a Major's rank) die quite mysteriously and suddenly while in her residence at the base in Khandahar. This unfortunate situation is still "open" and in need of public resolution.

Yes, HAARP - you may just be onto something. Wink. Canada would be ideal for monitoring it's performance especially in relation to both day-time and nocturnal Auroral interactions.

You may have different data than I kidflash2008 and if you could be a bit more specific I'd inquire discreetly. Please PM me if that is your wish. Research in Canada over the years has been largely overlooked - especially research sponsored by other nations.

I know of no security leaks within DND that relate to the Kecksburg event or "Die-Glocke", but I'm always prepared to explore one.

Next up? Some potential properties of "Die-Glocke" and eliminating some assumptive variables and finding out where that path leads.

Here are two videos that I will likely refer to a little further on but they do seem of some significance at this point. The links could change with time but I offer them now while they are available for any to consider in relationship to "Die-Glocke" and it's suspected unconventional properties.

The first video is 35 minutes long and is of a press conference at the European Geosciences Union meeting on April 23. 2009. It may be worth watching for those who have studied much about Schauberger and his mathematics and potential implications. The presenters are Karl-Heinz Glassmeier of the Institute for Geophysics and Extraterrestrial Physics of Braunschweig Germany, Olaf Amm of the Finnish Meteorological Institute and Andreas Keiling, a research space physicist at the University of California, Berkeley's Space Sciences Laboratory. 10 Giga-watts caught my eye to say nothing of the 100,000+ Amperes - the "coiloid" (a Schauberger term) spirals and forces involved are amazing.

The second video has to do with a current multi-national space mission called "Time History of Events and Macroscale Interactions during Substorms" or THEMIS and compliments the first.

There is another very interesting mission to do with gravity and gyroscopic measurement but I'll save that for a bit - I'm out of time. "Frame-dragging".

The classified project I was referring to was referenced as a joke on Saturday Night Live (the punch line was: Canada has a Defense?). I am trying to remember the name, but all the Hulu.com shorts are other bits that were on the program.

When I find the name, I will let you know. I think it is interesting the Canadian government has such a highly classified program, but I am not surprised.

I will watch the videos, and await your other posts on what the Glocke may have been.

Hi kidflash 2008. SNL? Or the "other" SNL? This one? Let me know when you come across it - a moderately thorough search across several engines doesn't yield much. Wink. SNL was started in Canada eh. I prefer the "other" SNL when having a gander for the gilded goose.

Not much time tonight - but please do watch that video from EGU 2009. Between the scant data on the "Die-Glocke" device from the WWII era and the scenario that the Kecksburg event outlines and relatively current confirming published research especially on gravity and magneto-dynamics amongst other studies (none of which are exactly secret or hidden or popularized) a more or less plausible "picture" starts to form of what may have been required "if" "Die-Glocke" type technology and Kecksburg were/are related. Scientific experimental observations and programs that have occurred since that time serve to further the possibility and I've run across nothing in science that completely refutes that yet. I may be surprised.

I'm still looking, but there may be a case to be made for on-going "quiet" development of at least certain aspects of "Die-Glocke" technology and such development "could" have been facilitated post-war by the USA, Canada, Great Britain and various multi-national interests.

Gravity Probe A was launched out of Wallops Island in 1976 and carried clocks and a MASER that confirmed the concept of red-shift and our expanding universe. Graviity Probe B? A bit more sophisticated - and without Pugh over at DoD may never have been launched - long story. The short version has much to do with the local macro-dynamics of space and time in relation to mass. Some may find this at least partly useful when considering potential properties of "Die-Glocke" at least from a conceptual point of view.

Let's see, the Bushman demos: check (I'll come back to those a little later in more detail), GP-A: check, and GP-B: check (although it seems germane to include another series of video clips that explore the GP-B a bit differently and in more detail). At least one other mission seems relevant and strangely may be potentially tied-up with some "cult" implications but I'll set that aside for now and revisit it later along with some more basic physics that may pertain to "Die-Glocke" and it's properties in it's earliest reported form.

I've been looking at some documents by two members of the German "Uranium Club" physicists (letters and scholarly interpretations of those letters) and it would seem "something was up" in 1941 - something perhaps revolutionary - and kept amongst a very few. The behavior of one premier physicist seems a bit enigmatic and the other could well and truly have wound up in post war Canada AND the USA - really. This still needs some more work but seems to be independent confirmation of what some authors have put forward and in some ways a very different scenario.

George Pugh of DoD circa 1959 - may have been "more-or-less" inside far enough to "get something done" - at least with GP-B if not other projects that were kept in confidence. There are a couple of Canadian scholars that figured in the GP-B project and the "construction" of the experiment's "double-blind" method - where no two primary investigative groups involved shared data until after the fact - and these people are still around and might be worth a chat with.

Three more video clips to do with Gravity Probe - B that I feel may have some value in looking at what properties the original "Die-Glocke" potentially possessed including potential polhode motion, trapped-flux and resonant torques.

The Arab-connection and contribution to GP-B is not without significance and tends to get lost in the shuffle but KACST (King Abdulaziz City for Science & Technology) was a participant.

I've mentioned "Frame-Dragging" and a part-explanation can be found in this quote from this PDF on GP-B theory.

"A non-rotating body produces a static spacetime curvature due to Mass. A rotaing body produces an additional dragging of external inertial frames via the body’s angular momentum, analogous to the body being surrounded by a viscous fluid. The instantaneous direction change of the gyro over the poles in opposite in direction to that when the gyro is above the equator. This is just what a test “straw” oriented perpendicular to the immersed in a fluid would do.

Frame Dragging is conceptually related to Mach’s principle: Inertial forces arise from accelerations and rotations with resp. to total mass of the universe. Under this interpretation the gyro spin direction reaches a compromise between following the distant stars and the rotating earth. Lense and Thirring in 1918 considered the metric inside a rigidly rotating hollow sphere. In 1966 it was shown that as the shell’s gravitational radius, 2GM/c2, approaches its physical radius, the precession of a gyro at the center approaches the angular velocity of the shell. That is, the gyro spin becomes locked to the rotating distant matter. Water would climb up the sides of a non-rotating bucket at the center of the shell."

Wink.

A link I found of particular use in this and other references to Gravity Probe - B amongst other "good stuff" at Lockheed-Martin Space System Products, here.

Thanks for your thanks kidflash2008. I suspect the field of fields that German academics of physics and radio-chemistry were fielding were in some respects unified and in other ways - "not-so-much". I suppose it is what it is until someone modifies that.

I was going to post something else today but happy surprises happen. A good friend has "come-through" with some help on things for which I have little talent. For ReCo, "May the Countess Mountbatten's good-graces watch over those of Her service", "Fears No Foe" and "Three-cheers!"

Protractors, compasses, lasers and castles will wait.

On Page 341 of J.P. Farrell's book "The Reich of the Black Sun" there is a map delineating something approximating a potential flight path for the Kecksburg event of December 9, 1965. I've read the book 3 times and I can find no accreditation for this map and I suspect there may be two, three or four alternate possibilities that are "just as valid" at this point and I will work toward those alternates and a better methodology. I will revisit Farrell's works several times in this thread and not always in complete agreement nor abject opposition.

OK. Maps. The map below was developed in a few stages and all involve some subjective interpretation and to be honest the map developed was the least favorable to my personal bias. It should be said that the "other" potential flight-paths still being developed may or may not "fit" what I think may have been the circumstance at the time - we'll find out.

The first picture is of a capture from page 341 of "The Reich of the Black Sun" that was converted to a line drawing. It was then resized and super-imposed on a 2-D map matching as closely as possible the Great Lakes but skewed West and away from Churchill Manitoba as much as seems reasonable. The very first version actually crossed the AFCRL/NRC/DND rocket launch complex - it seemed like cheating - so I arbitrarily decided to have the carefully super-imposed line drawing "rotated on center" of the Great Lakes not to favor Churchill quite so much. Even with this "interpretation" the extrapolated path is still very, very close. The other path variants that are developing are "not so straight-line". Wink

The map and import super-imposition were then knitted into a larger series of maps and the line extended and the product is the final pic in this post.

P.S. I think I may have stumbled upon a source for the "purple goo" mentioned in many commentaries on "Die-Glocke" and I'll include that in the protractor, compass, laser and castle post tonight or as soon as time and back-checking allows.

Fix'

P.P.S. Sorry, the transparency for the import line drawing does not show up well when embedded so here's a direct link that will show up on a white background.http://illiweb.com/fa/pbucket.gif

The object moving in trajectory does rule out the meteor theory that the debunkers use time and time again to explain the object.

One day I hope the government will come clean and show us the extraterrestrial craft and probes they have in possession. Then we will all find out what really happened and get to see the object in question.

Good work on your research of Kecksburg. I await your other posts on this subject and what the Glocke may have been.

You wrote: The object moving in trajectory does rule out the meteor theory that the debunkers use time and time again to explain the object."

The Delta-V and the directional changes reported by the eyewitnesses (Bulebush and Blystone amongst others) would suggest what you say but there are some caveats particularly in respect to the terminal phase and the aerodynamic considerations and possible CG variables. There may be other "just as valid" paths. This one aspect is most-befuddling until one looks at it from an unconventional AND conventional perspective. Some aspects of re-entry bodies in the magneto, ionic and aero-phases and transitions are subject to popular misconceptions and "truisms" often referred to but seldom adequately demonstrated - the same goes for Astronomy. If that sounds a bit cryptic, some points about Maxime Faget's published work will be of partial help a bit further along in the accounting of the potential Kecksburg terminal phase behaviors. Re-entry, amongst a whole host of other dynamics are amazing in so many fields. Can one "steer" a falling body? Conventionally? Unconventionally? How about "naturally"? Big smile.

There was a whole big bunch of inter-related "stuff" which may have been "going-on" with that body that was allegedly recovered at Kecksburg and by some accounts wound up at W-P AFB or perhaps someplace similar. Oh! Sorry, before I forget can any reader help me with finding out how tall the perimeter fence at Wright- Patterson AFB would have been in December 1965? Oh and if anyone has "rock-solid" latitude and longitude data (preferably GPS) for the Kecksburg object resting place that would be exceedingly helpful in a 4-space map-sim being tinkered with.

I echo and support your sentiments regarding government(s). It'd take some special-brew detergent to get those hands "clean". Thanks eh, one often doesn't experience such collegial and gracious treatment on the internets. What a most pleasant surprise.

Uh-oh, time is short. Never enough as I age. In the mean-time, I'll put off the stuff about LISA and those rather important but quirky physics and people things and post the bit I found (it wasn't hidden) about isotope production and come back to it later.

The Auer Society may have supplied the "purple - violet - luminescent - radio-isotopic - gel" (descriptions in various media vary - that is a "constant" ) in "Die-Glocke" from the book "Biologists Under Hitler" by Ute Deichmann and Thomas Dunlap a caption of the appropriate text; from page 225, paragraph 2.

The color is an interesting aspect. What wavelength?

More later,

Fix'

EDIT@5:31PM Easterm to add:

There will be a global shortage of radio-isotopes starting next week because of an unfortunate heavy water leak and tritium leak at the Chalk River Nuclear Reactor (which supplies 60% of the world's medical isotopes) which is a facility I'd mentioned earlier in this thread. I will return to this facility and a potential involvement in posts to follow about "Die-Glocke" and the December 9 1965 event. A link to the news item.

I spent 3 hours today with a friend who works for Pratt & Whitney instrumenting test-cells and collecting data. His specialty is collecting blade related data. We share an interest in flywheel and magneto energy systems so I thought I'd show him the alleged photos of the stator and rotor of Schauberger's "Repulsine" turbine.

What was supposed to be a quick-lunch went about 3 beers longer owing to the unique nature of the Schauberger rotor-form. He'd never seen anything using a helical "blade" in tubular form to say nothing of the unusual proportional "pocket-channel" and constant spiralling decreasing cross-section. I asked if it would "work" as a centrifugal compressor and he said he'd want to see a CFD-sim but felt that it "should". "If" it was actually made then the manufacturing required presents some real machining and materials property challenges especially if it turned at 20K RPM (as speculated by some) or above. We both felt the acoustic environment it would create would be "something special". Very exciting.

He felt that the outer skin of the "Repulsine" and it's bell-shape were an integral part of the mechanism. Balancing and rotor fractures and micro-crack propagation would have been issues as he talked about a bunch of manufacturing problems and especially bearings - lots of challenges.

I asked him a "what if" about using Uranium gas instead of it's as reported diet of ambient air. I also asked "what if" that gas was under pressure. I didn't really get an answer but I could tell his interest level was "up" on that.

Might be fun to model a Repulsine-like design and see what happens in VR.

Drat, out of time again.

Fix'

Last edited by Fixer on Thu May 21, 2009 6:22 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : Beer and small fonts.)