1* Ipad Pro 10,5 vs. 2* Ipad 2017 9,7

I am at the beginning of my IOS music making activities - and not sure which Ipad(s) I should buy in the beginning of 2018 ...

I am planning to work in long and improvised sessions - using many different apps at the same time - layering them - adding an external synth and a microphone via an audiointerface + to record the session at the same time in cubasis …. and/or perform in a life setup

and I am strongly looking forward to do all of this with LOW latency and NO glitches/crackles while I switch between the apps and/or using the external keyboard …

but since I have read several discussions in this forum - I noticed that this could not be as easy to reach as I thought at first hand -

this is why I am asking here for your thoughts, advices and suggestions - about which set up would be the most flexible and powerful and reliable/stable for such a kind of usage - and still stays within my budget of around 800 Euro:

1* Ipad Pro 10,5 - 256 GB - about 800 Euro

2* Ipad 2017 9,7 - 128 GB - about 800 Euro

3*Iad Air 2 64 GB from ebay - about 650 EURO

thanks a lot for your time and experience - and hopefully helpful comments for a newbie in this forum ...

10.5, for sure. I have the biggest one and sometimes regret the extra space unless I’m watching Vimeo video art or YouTube or something. Or if you’re into comics (IMO, books would be fine on the 9 or the 10, but not comics/manga).

@AudioGus said:
By 1* and 2* etc do you mean 2x as in get two 2017 ipads etc? I assume that must be what you mean... ?

yes - that is what I mean - cause my first choice would have been a single Ipad Pro 10,5 - but then I heard of these issues in IOS- as @supadom said:

IPad 10.5 is definitely more capable but is hindered by issues with IOS. If I were you at this point in time if money was an object I’d go for a brand new Ipad 2017 or Air 2.

and so my idea was to find an alternative and maybe more reliable set up (and maybe also more flexible set up - since I will habe more screens to touch and see at the same time) - but which still gives me the same "power" in handling many apps at the same time as the pro 10,5 would have been given me ... by buying 2 less capable Ipads (either 2 x the 9,7 from 2017 - or 3 x the Air 2) ...

but I am just not sure if this is the right idea - or if there are other issues I will be running into by going this path ...

by the way - what I should maybe add: the primarly interest in the ipads is making music - so the size is not important for watching video oder reading mangas or anything like this ...

I would go with the 2017 128GB new with warranty and as many iPad Air 2 as you can get with the money leftover. The mini 2 16gb is also a great little device and probably the cheapest usable model out there. It can even run Model 15 without glitching that often, model 15 in eco mode will allow you an effect or two depending on the patch used.

Another advantage of this approach is that you can relax more when traveling etc with the used model, put the new one in a good case and don't let it leave the house!

Cracked screens can really get you a nice price if you are willing to buy used and locally, just to confirm that there aren't other issues.

I should mention that I haven't used the pro but I haven't come across any music app that the 2017 will not be able to handle with ease.

If your synth can double as a midi controller, that will be very useful. If you don't have an iPhone, a used 4s running audiobus remote will also make your life easier. It's good to use one iPad as the centre of the setup, so all your audio is in one place.

I would think that if you are running that much stuff live, go with more iPads. It is a pain to switch between everything on one iPad, running less stuff will decrease the strain on your device, and if you are running everything on one iPad, live, and it crashes...show’s over.
Also, remember you don’t have to have EVERYTHING being produced live. If you have elements that are more or less locked, run those as pre-recorded audio files. That is a much lighter setup as far as resources go.

@BlueGreenSpiral said:
I would go with the 2017 128GB new with warranty and as many iPad Air 2 as you can get with the money leftover. The mini 2 16gb is also a great little device and probably the cheapest usable model out there. It can even run Model 15 without glitching that often, model 15 in eco mode will allow you an effect or two depending on the patch used.

Another advantage of this approach is that you can relax more when traveling etc with the used model, put the new one in a good case and don't let it leave the house!

Cracked screens can really get you a nice price if you are willing to buy used and locally, just to confirm that there aren't other issues.

I should mention that I haven't used the pro but I haven't come across any music app that the 2017 will not be able to handle with ease.

from your answers I assume that you are running an Ipad 2017 yourself - can you describe how "powerful" it is - I mean like in relation to lets say - model 15 played via an external keyboard + effects + lets say borderlands granular + patterning + recodring in cubasis - would something like this work in a stable and glitch-free way? at which piont of adding apps will it reach it´s critical performance level?

@CracklePot said:
I would think that if you are running that much stuff live, go with more iPads. It is a pain to switch between everything on one iPad, running less stuff will decrease the strain on your device, and if you are running everything on one iPad, live, and it crashes...show’s over.
Also, remember you don’t have to have EVERYTHING being produced live. If you have elements that are more or less locked, run those as pre-recorded audio files. That is a much lighter setup as far as resources go.

Dear Crackle Pot - thanks for these points - haven`t thought of the crashing aspect yet - but that for sure makes definetly sense - and it would be a good advantage of several ipads ...

@Zen210507 said:
We have both of the models your are considering, and while the 9.7 is fine, the 10.5 Pro beats it in every way.

Dear Zen - it´s cool that you own both devices - so maybe you can point out the precise difference (in real life performance with music apps) between the two of them - is it that the 10,5 Pro has double the power of the IPad 2017 ? and/or would it be possible to do as much (or even more?) with two Ipad 2017 as with a single Pro 10,5?

@Bon_Tempi Reading my reply again I can see how you got that impression, I'm using a mini 3 here! I may be wrong on this but as far as I know there are only one or two apps that would really need the Pro model, advanced photo editing and/or video editing but they are rare.

Model 15 is probably the most demanding music production app available and since my older device can run it (admittedly just barely), the 2017 should be future proof for quite a while! Looking at the specs It's far more powerful than what I'm using.

I could easily run borderlands, patterning and cubasis together. I regularly have much more stuff going on and don't have any issues. Might be that staying on iOS 10 also helps with this?

You have quite a few options and that's not a bad complaint to have

People running Air 2 or 2017 don't seem to get hit with (m)any problems, I suspect the larger screen size is the problem and it will most likely be fixed with time. I personally hate waiting for fixes especially after spending a big chunk of money on something.

Hopefully some others using the Pro lineup can advise you about real world performance and potential benefits/problems..

I will say that 2 iPads and an iPhone was very nice to have, I have a lot of midi controllers though and was using audiobus remote to handle recording etc on the 64GB central one.

3 iPads might be overkill for one person and you may have to factor in camera connection kits etc depending on your needs, these little things are expensive enough and are hidden costs that can add up quickly!

I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

@Bon_Tempi said:
Dear Zen - it´s cool that you own both devices - so maybe you can point out the precise difference (in real life performance with music apps) between the two of them - is it that the 10,5 Pro has double the power of the IPad 2017 ? and/or would it be possible to do as much (or even more?) with two Ipad 2017 as with a single Pro 10,5?

>

Well, what I said was ‘we’ have both models. My other half, while absolutely fabulous in so many ways, does not make music. Therefore, the only direct comparison I can offer is when I had many of the same apps on an iPad Air 2. I switched from that, very capable device, to this Pro 10.5. We more recently aquired the 9.7 device.

What I can tell you about using the Air 2 and 9.7 devices, in contrast to the Pro 10.5 is that the Pro 10.5 always feels much quicker, and more responsive. For music apps, the nippy CPU and extra RAM means I have never yet felt like I was running out of power. I can run several ‘gas guzzling’ apps at the same time and not see any noticeable slow down. Then there is the sheer space. I bought the 256gb model, and a quick look tells me that I currently have around 181gb left. This is with apps such as Sample Tank and Auria Pro. Like everyone, I do try to ditch apps and files I’m not using, but I no longer worry about running out of space.

FWIW, with a 64gb Air 2, I was always short on space, and periodically found things slowing down as RAM was gobbled up. My partner, although as I’ve said is not musical, does have lots of visual stuff on her 9.7. It is noticeably quicker and with a better screen than the Air 2. Plus, with 128gb storage, it will be a long time before she runs out of space.

@Zen210507 said:
FWIW, with a 64gb Air 2, I was always short on space, and periodically found things slowing down as RAM was gobbled up. My partner, although as I’ve said is not musical, does have lots of visual stuff on her 9.7. It is noticeably quicker and with a better screen than the Air 2. Plus, with 128gb storage, it will be a long time before she runs out of space.

Hope this helps.

The 2017 9.7 inch or the 9.7 Pro? Because the 2017 9.7 has a terrible screen in comparison to the Air 2

@soundshaper said:
I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

That was the reason for me buying it too, rather disappointed. Hopefully next iOS update will put us on the home straight.

I went from Air 1 to iPad 2017 9.7 and the screen is beautiful to me. But the best part is that the difference in CPU juice is quite noticeable especially when running Syntronik Arp sets. It really is such a great price. But then again, I’ve never seen an Air2 screen in person. I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.

@MusicMan4Christ said:
I went from Air 1 to iPad 2017 9.7 and the screen is beautiful to me. But the best part is that the difference in COU juice is quite noticeable especially when running Syntronik Arp sets. It really is such a great price. But then again, I’ve never seen an Air2 screen in person. I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.

@MusicMan4Christ said:
I went from Air 1 to iPad 2017 9.7 and the screen is beautiful to me. But the best part is that the difference in COU juice is quite noticeable especially when running Syntronik Arp sets. It really is such a great price. But then again, I’ve never seen an Air2 screen in person. I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.

@MusicMan4Christ said:
I went from Air 1 to iPad 2017 9.7 and the screen is beautiful to me. But the best part is that the difference in COU juice is quite noticeable especially when running Syntronik Arp sets. It really is such a great price. But then again, I’ve never seen an Air2 screen in person. I guess sometimes ignorance is bliss.

@soundshaper said:
I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

That was the reason for me buying it too, rather disappointed. Hopefully next iOS update will put us on the home straight.

Ok I just discovered all of my CPU woes and crackles when graphics change are completely the fault of Model 15. As soon as I close that app, I can get my latency down to 128 without any spikes or crackles, and that’s with 6 synths loaded into AUM. So yeah, it looks beautiful and is fun to use, but Model 15 is gonna have to be left out of my live setup.

People running Air 2 or 2017 don't seem to get hit with (m)any problems, I suspect the larger screen size is the problem and it will most likely be fixed with time. I personally hate waiting for fixes especially after spending a big chunk of money on something.

Hopefully some others using the Pro lineup can advise you about real world performance and potential benefits/problems..

Dear Michael - can you name some of the reasons why you do think it is? may I ask on which IOS you are running your Ipad? have you experienced any of the issues other 10,5 Pro users in this forum reported about?

@soundshaper said:
I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

Dear Soundshaper - you mentioned the latency - and since I am not very experienced there - can you tell me a bit more about it? so that I can get an impression what the numbers mean - 128 - 256 - 512 - from which moment on the latency gets an irritation? you spoke about 256 being to much for live drumming - by live drumming you mean drumming as drumming on a real drum kit while being in interaction with other musicians?

but if it would be just me - and no other musicians involved - and me using the drummachine mainly in an electronic music way - while I play in addition other synths and/or layers - would then something like 256 be acceptable?

and - is it true that that buffer size is global on an ipad - so - if one app requires a higher buffer setting - then I can´t go lower with the other apps on the same ipad - is this right?

@Zen210507 said:
What I can tell you about using the Air 2 and 9.7 devices, in contrast to the Pro 10.5 is that the Pro 10.5 always feels much quicker, and more responsive. For music apps, the nippy CPU and extra RAM means I have never yet felt like I was running out of power. I can run several ‘gas guzzling’ apps at the same time and not see any noticeable slow down. Then there is the sheer space. I bought the 256gb model, and a quick look tells me that I currently have around 181gb left. This is with apps such as Sample Tank and Auria Pro. Like everyone, I do try to ditch apps and files I’m not using, but I no longer worry about running out of space.

FWIW, with a 64gb Air 2, I was always short on space, and periodically found things slowing down as RAM was gobbled up. My partner, although as I’ve said is not musical, does have lots of visual stuff on her 9.7. It is noticeably quicker and with a better screen than the Air 2. Plus, with 128gb storage, it will be a long time before she runs out of space.

Hope this helps.

yes, thanks - this helps - but - one more thing came to my mind -

so you have never experienced this kind of buffer size/latency issues described by "Soundshaper" ?
may I ask on which IOS you are running your Ipad - and if you experienced any problem with the IOS?

@soundshaper said:
I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

@soundshaper said:
I’m on a new 2017 iPad Pro 10.5 and while I can agree that it’s fast and runs Model 15 beautifully, I can’t seem to get the latency down to 128 or lower without experiencing crackles and CPU spikes when the UI/graphics move. It will handle a lot of instruments and effects in AB or AUM at 256 though. Not a huge deal for synths, but not usable for live drumming.

I’ve heard others say the iPad Air 2 is performing just as well as mine or slightly better at low latencies. I was expecting to be able to go as low as 64, which is why I put down the dough for the latest Pro.

That was the reason for me buying it too, rather disappointed. Hopefully next iOS update will put us on the home straight.

Dear Supadom - so do you believe it is an issue with the IOS version and not a limitation of the Ipad itself? May I ask on which version you are - and why you believe it causes these performance problems?

I have both. They are the same. Also, I have used the Pro and see negligible difference in the screen to be honest.

Dear AudioGus - so do you have real world experience with the 2017 9,7 - and the 10,5 Pro?

can you tell me a bit about their performance in running several apps - and what is your opinon about the question: will I be able to do as much with 2x Ipad 2017 9,7 compared to a single Ipad Pro 10,5 ? the quality of the the screen would not be my first decision maker here ...

Dear Soundshaper - you mentioned the latency - and since I am not very experienced there - can you tell me a bit more about it? so that I can get an impression what the numbers mean - 128 - 256 - 512 - from which moment on the latency gets an irritation? you spoke about 256 being to much for live drumming - by live drumming you mean drumming as drumming on a real drum kit while being in interaction with other musicians?

but if it would be just me - and no other musicians involved - and me using the drummachine mainly in an electronic music way - while I play in addition other synths and/or layers - would then something like 256 be acceptable?

and - is it true that that buffer size is global on an ipad - so - if one app requires a higher buffer setting - then I can´t go lower with the other apps on the same ipad - is this right?

Latency is the time between your hitting of a key/pad and the sound playing. It is particularly noticeable while playing quick notes which often (but not only) happens when playing percussive sounds (drums). When latency is too high you might encounter issues with sequencers recording notes in wrong places, even more so when quantisation is active notes might be shifted in the next available measure. When recording this might result in audio recording with a delay. Both things can be adjusted afterwards but when you're playing live it isn't always desirable. Even when just recording at home it can become tedious to have to adjust all the notes and it is better to work with lowest latency possible. 256 frames is probably the highest I'm comfortable with.

Other than the lower the latency the more software instrument feels like real instrument as it responds immediately as a real instrument would.