Late to the party, but Chas's note reminds me to remind him and you... Do you REALLY believe 75% of humans have always been delusional? Maybe it's time to end this species and call it a wrap...

Yes. In fact nearly 100% of humans are delusional, just on different topics. Our brains works against us, giving us false positives in our pattern-seeking behavior and forcing us into uncomfortable positions whenever we consider the fact that we might be wrong. That's why people rarely admit they're wrong, even when it's obvious to everyone around them.

That means that I, too, am probably delusional. I disagree with the vast majority of mathematicians on the concept of whether .999... = 1 and with the vast majority of scientists on whether global warming is truly a concern. I recognize that there are plenty of rational people on the other side of these questions, so there's a good chance that I might be wrong on one or both of them. I think it's healthy to recognize my weak positions and be willing to depart from them if given proper evidence, but I'm not swayed by the popularity alone on the other side of them either.

You are also probably delusional, although in your case you don't appear to be doing anything to prevent it. Your responses don't lead me to believe that you ever weigh evidence and consider whether you're being blinded by bias. I'm sure that you recognize that the majority of people on this planet are not Christian, and even fewer are *your* type of sect of Christian. So even you agree that most people, from your point of view, are delusional on the topic of religion. So why are you arguing against this sentiment? Is it only because it came from an opponent?

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.

First, there are many, many, born again Christians all over the world. But because people have free will and can and do choose whether to worship the God they know not does not make them delusional... but there is a decided difference between the many people who vote for or against an Obama and those people who claim he does not exist...

Late to the party, but Chas's note reminds me to remind him and you... Do you REALLY believe 75% of humans have always been delusional? Maybe it's time to end this species and call it a wrap...

Yes, I REALLY believe that, and more.

Everyone is delusional. Our brains screw with our heads all the time. Everything we perceive gets run through our brain's filter and then our brain edits our memories after the fact. Every one of us.

So we're all delusional about everything.

To narrow it down a bit, since your 75% figure seems to be referencing religion, yes, I believe religion is all a big lie, and people believing in it are deceived at best and probably delusional too, and people who have "personal evidence" of religious events in their personal lives, like revelations or holy spirit or miracles that prove god, etc., are definitely delusional about those things.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein

(03-03-2013 03:38 PM)Peanut Wrote: I've heard about people saying they've "talked to God." That's cool, I guess. But what gets to me is that they say God RESPONDED. What IS that?! They recount the ACTUAL conversation they had and what God SAIS to them.

Does that mean they are delusional? Does it mean they are lying?

I find that to be a major claim and one must be completely certain to say it happened. And I'm talking about my mother, my friends who said she prayed for a job and he answered her prayers, about people who DON'T have a documented mental illness.

If this comes off as sarcastic, it's not ENTIRELY so. I genuinely think this is a big deal.

I believe it marks them as delusional.

Well they get to pick and choose who they believe is delusional.
The dirty homeless guy on the corner spouting off about god spoke to him: Delusional
Pat Robertson who makes mostly failed predictions: Not delusional Well until he claimed to bench press like a million pounds or some such nonsense.

(08-03-2013 11:40 AM)Starcrash Wrote: That means that I, too, am probably delusional. I disagree with the vast majority of mathematicians on the concept of whether .999... = 1 and with the vast majority of scientists on whether global warming is truly a concern. I recognize that there are plenty of rational people on the other side of these questions, so there's a good chance that I might be wrong on one or both of them. I think it's healthy to recognize my weak positions and be willing to depart from them if given proper evidence, but I'm not swayed by the popularity alone on the other side of them either.

I thought we settled that one.

1/9 = 0.11111...
9/9 = 0.99999...

QED.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.

(03-03-2013 03:38 PM)Peanut Wrote: I've heard about people saying they've "talked to God." That's cool, I guess. But what gets to me is that they say God RESPONDED. What IS that?! They recount the ACTUAL conversation they had and what God SAIS to them.

Does that mean they are delusional? Does it mean they are lying?

I find that to be a major claim and one must be completely certain to say it happened. And I'm talking about my mother, my friends who said she prayed for a job and he answered her prayers, about people who DON'T have a documented mental illness.

If this comes off as sarcastic, it's not ENTIRELY so. I genuinely think this is a big deal.

You have to accept the possibility that this is happening. It has happened to me. This is a main reason Christians will tell you they know it's true. There is personal evidence.

Option one. According to science, it's a delusion. One cannot have telepathic conversations, with God or with anyone, therefore it must be a delusion. There's voices in your head.

Option two is they're lying through their teeth. Nuff said.

Option three is that they had a profound spiritual experience. They didn't "hear" anything in the literal sense, they just had a very profound experience and used the notion of being spoken to by God to help them interpret and make sense of it. This is different than being delusional.

Option four is that they're mistaken. Maybe they heard something and attributed it to God, a la, Marge Simpson pointing out to Homer, "That's not God Homey, that's a waffle."

Option five is that God exists and he told them what's up. Problem is, they have no evidence of it because God speaking to your brain doesn't leave evidence. So they're asking you to trust their revelation. It's up to you to decide if you will or not.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Option 4 and 5 is most likely. I've found when asking for a sign you get many option 4's that can be discarded as coincidence. Eventually something will turn the tide with you spiritually, and you'll realize it was option 5 all along. Option 5 then reinforces itself to leave no doubt.

Option one. According to science, it's a delusion. One cannot have telepathic conversations, with God or with anyone, therefore it must be a delusion. There's voices in your head.

Option two is they're lying through their teeth. Nuff said.

Option three is that they had a profound spiritual experience. They didn't "hear" anything in the literal sense, they just had a very profound experience and used the notion of being spoken to by God to help them interpret and make sense of it. This is different than being delusional.

Option four is that they're mistaken. Maybe they heard something and attributed it to God, a la, Marge Simpson pointing out to Homer, "That's not God Homey, that's a waffle."

Option five is that God exists and he told them what's up. Problem is, they have no evidence of it because God speaking to your brain doesn't leave evidence. So they're asking you to trust their revelation. It's up to you to decide if you will or not.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Option 4 and 5 is most likely. I've found when asking for a sign you get many option 4's that can be discarded as coincidence. Eventually something will turn the tide with you spiritually, and you'll realize it was option 5 all along. Option 5 then reinforces itself to leave no doubt.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.