Turkish warships will escort any Turkish aid vessels to Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan said in remarks broadcast on Al Jazeera television on Thursday.

Erdogan also said that Turkey had taken steps to stop Israel from unilaterally exploiting natural resources from the eastern Mediterranean, according to Al Jazeera's Arabic translation of excerpts of the interview, which was conducted in Turkish.

They want a war. Erdogan needs to be told in whatever secure manner necessary, that he will be the first to die. Meanwhile, the Kurds need a major infusion of military assistance in their war for freedom against the Turks. And BTW, the Turks must apologize for the Armenian genocide.

Jeez how scary. I guess we should have let the Turkish army overthrow the democratically elected government when they wanted to. Since that missed chance the armed forces have been purged of all their secular stalwarts and its now firmly in the hands of islamists.

“You cant threaten a muslim fanatic with death. Thats the same as promising him an eternal 72 virgin orgy.

Good point, that does make it more difficult. Maybe a good Kurdish all out fight for a homeland with Israeli backing would take up Erdogan’s energy. I only suggest this because it doesn't look like the Turkish military has what it takes to mount another coup and restore a secular civilian government in Turkey.

I don’t know what the differences are in training, morale, and technology, but they can only cover for so much.
It would be a hell of a fight - Turks are NOT Arabs. They won’t punch out because the missile warning light came on.

Also, if there really was a confrontation, you have to wonder who else would jump in.

11
posted on 09/08/2011 11:22:39 AM PDT
by Little Ray
(FOR the best Conservative in the Primary; AGAINST Obama in the General.)

Remember during the Iraq war, Turkey wouldn't let the 3rd ID invade Iraq through Turkey...Saddam was thus able to concentrate ALL his forces to he south, and it gave the terrorists time to organize around Bagdad. Turkey should have been kicked out of NATO at that time.

Maybe this, and Libya, will cause us to reassess NATO..maybe get out of it..

16
posted on 09/08/2011 11:27:11 AM PDT
by ken5050
(Save the EARTH...it's the ONLY planet with CHOCOLATE!!!)

NATO is a defense treaty. We wouldn’t be obligated to come to the aid of Turkey. However, the United States does have a treaty with Israel to give aid to her, if attacked. For example, during the first gulf war. Israel was provided Patriot Missile batteries, along with training on how to use them.

"Also, if there really was a confrontation, you have to wonder who else would jump in."

Yes, that would be the signal for all of the rest of the sharks to attack - Iran, Syria, Egypt, maybe Jordan, Lebanon, and the US in a disguised fashion. That would force Israel to use the equalizer - nukes, and the world will change forever.

-Also, If they actually have a warship(s)how far into international waters will they go? How close to the Israeli coast will they attempt to try? Turkey gets significant amounts of military aid from the US- how would they US respond diplomatically or financially?

Lastly, once they try to come ashore, they can be attacked at will by Israeli gun ships. Would the Turks attempt to defend a Gaza port?

Breaking a blockade with a warship is only permissible if it is the warship of a neutral nation, escorting a cargo ship to a port, designated by the blockading force for the reception and inspection of humanitarian goods.

Otherwise it is both an act of war, and the Captain of that ship may be tried for piracy, even if ordered to do so by his superiors.

Israel has very carefully set up its embargo so that it follows all international rules of the sea and blockades, which go back over a hundred years, and were most recently revised in the 1990s.

Israel was chastised over the seized cargo ship last time, because they initiated action against it while it was still in international waters, even though it was intending to enter the embargo zone, and said so.

But Turkey will likely find that force projection is not as easy as Erdogan’s ego imagines. Their ships are strategically and tactically outmatched by Israel, and guaranteed, Israel will do everything by the numbers to insure that if Turkey declares war, it will do so as the aggressor nation, which will forfeit any international legal support.

There’s no way Obama would be out front, but in case of hostilities he would be egging on Turkey from the wings and carping at Israel, doing anything and everything to tie their hands and make them look bad. Liberal (most) Jews in the US don’t care about Israel, and the ones who do care about Israel aren’t fans of Obama and are no big loss to him.

I dont know what the differences are in training, morale, and technology, but they can only cover for so much. It would be a hell of a fight - Turks are NOT Arabs. They wont punch out because the missile warning light came on.

The Turks haven't had a serious fight that they've been in for quite some time, whereas the Israelis are constantly either fighting or training to fight (and always applying lessons from the prior fights to improve themselves). The IAF, in particular, would make utter mincemeat of the Turk Navy, and would likely shoot down a lot of the Turkish air forces that got involved. Just ask the Russian pilots from 1967, 1973 and 1982 over Lebanon - they got shot down just like the Arabs that they were pretending to be.

Remember also that the Turks aren't fighting for survival, the Israelis always are doing so. Further, the Israelis will have lots shorter lines of communication, and their air force will have far longer loiter times than the Turks.

If the Turks really decide that they want to fight Israel, then they had better be ready for what Israel will do to them - Israel isn't going to sit by passively while it is attacked, and I wouldn't be surprised to see massive destruction at Turkish naval and air bases near the Med.

As one American officer said during the first Gulf War, "I'd advise any nation in this area not to f$%k with the Jews."

39
posted on 09/08/2011 11:58:54 AM PDT
by Ancesthntr
(Bibi to Odumbo: Its not going to happen.)

NATO is a defense treaty. We wouldnt be obligated to come to the aid of Turkey. However, the United States does have a treaty with Israel to give aid to her, if attacked.

And you really think Obama will abide by the terms of our treaty with Israel? He might be blocked from actively taking Turkey's side, but he's guaranteed to ignore any obligations to Israel (at least until it's too late to do Israel any good).

You left out the high point for 2012: the communist thug in our White House will more likely than not get his walking papers in November, and we’ll have a chance to restore America as a free country. I’d say as ugly as the rest of the events will be, getting rid of evil (pathetic and inept but still purely malevolent) makes it a good year.

41
posted on 09/08/2011 12:03:15 PM PDT
by Pollster1
(Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)

Don’t sell the turks short militarily. They are hard fighters and not stupid. They have been part of NATO for a long time, and beneficiaries of that connection in many ways that makes them a formidable threat.

Your post is factual and well thought out. There is one glaring problem with it, though. You forget that we are dealing with the evil Jeeeeeewwwwwwssssss. Internationally, logic, facts and the truth seem to fly out the window anytime Israel is involved. Erdogan could be filmed roasting Jewish babies on a spit, and Israel would be condemned for trying to poison him ont eh world stage.

With the islamist lovers in the White House and State Dept., who knows what US reaction would be if Turkey initiated a shooting war. I highly doubt that it would be the proper moral and logical one, though.

43
posted on 09/08/2011 12:10:55 PM PDT
by Turbo Pig
(...to close with and destroy the enemy...)

Erdogan needs to be told in no uncertain terms that such a move would be entirely unacceptable to the US and would result in Turkey being removed from NATO, post haste, and the imposition of economic sanctions. Further, that any attempt to breach the Gaza blockade would be interpreted as an assault by Turkey against US interests in the eastern Mediterranean, and would be countered accordingly.

However, I'm sure that President Outreach will silently applaud these Turkish moves against our “ungrateful” ally.

Raw numbers are deceiving. A.) The Turks cannot commit their entire navy and air force to the fray. They need to maintain a backstop against Greece et al. B.) The Turkish air force would be operating near its maximum radius with minimal time on target while the Israeli air force would be near its bases and able to loiter and engage targets at will. C.) There are significant differences in force quality with Turkey on the short end of the stick, especially in the air.

I’ve done a little more research since this post - and someone else had provided a description of the relative forces.

Turkey has a huge advantage in surface warfare combatants, while Israel has a large advantage in the air with both more and higher quality fighters. F15’s versus F4’s ain’t a fair fight.

The Israelis are going to have to cause the Turks to be the first to shoot - after that is taken care of, I suspect their air force will be the deciding factor - but they’ll take heavy losses. The Turkish military knows what they are walking into. They’ve had very long ties with the Israeli military. It would be a major brawl.

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