Harry here. One of our goals has always been to bring more transparency to the rideshare industry. Today, senior RSG contributor Christian Perea takes a look at Uber’s new Upfront pricing system.

Over the past few weeks, we have been receiving emails that Uber’s “Upfront” fares have been overcharging passengers without paying drivers the difference. In some instances, passengers are getting charged double the actual time and distance for a normal ride, yet drivers are receiving only about half of the amount the passenger pays while Uber is pocketing the difference.

Update 11/29/2016: Lyft in no surprise, has announced that they will launch their own version of upfront pricing as well.

If you’re not familiar with the move to upfront fares, Uber detailed it in a blog post a few months ago. Basically, passengers in major markets are now required to enter a destination, and the fare they’re quoted is a guaranteed price for that ride. On surge rides, there is small text that says ‘fares are increased due to higher demand’ instead of passengers having to type in the surge amount like they used to.

Examples of Uber “Skimming Off The Top” of Upfront Fares

Initially, I thought most of these rides were a result of rare occurrences with the Upfront pricing algorithm, so I decided to test it out for myself. It turned out that on the first ride I took, I found a small discrepancy.

I have included four of the most obvious examples below. Feel free to contribute with your screenshots by e-mailing us or leaving a comment below.

Example 1: My “Test” Ride

Frey was visibly upset about this.

Passenger (me) Paid: $19.20

Driver’s payout: $12.65

You can see that I paid $19.20 for this ride and there was no surge or earnings boost attached to the fare. Frey drove me from Buffalo Wild Wings to my apartment in Bayview. And at the end of the ride, Uber kept $6.55 of the $19.20 that I paid while Frey only got $12.65.

The problem is that Uber should have charged the passenger less (or paid the driver more). Adding the $1.55 booking fee (this is charged to the passenger but doesn’t show up on the driver’s payout) back to the gross fare of $15.81 results in a total $17.36 but the passenger (me) paid $19.20. So what happened to that $1.84? Uber kept it.

$1.84 isn’t a ton of money, but it’s not insignificant either, and if you multiply that by the tens of millions of rides that Uber does a day, there are some pretty big stakes here.

Example 2: Evan in Los Angeles

Uber charged Evan $18.08 but the driver only received $9.31

We received the images above from RSG reader Evan in Los Angeles. Evan requested a ride from an Uber driver who took him 9.91 miles in 23 minutes. Since Evan happened to know the driver, they compared fares at the end of the trip to find that the two amounts were way off. Evan paid $18.08 for this ride (actually $9.09 after his discount code) but his driver only received $9.31 after Uber’s 25% commission.

Passenger Paid: $18.08

Driver Received: $12.42 (Gross)

Even with a $1.65 booking fee subtracted from the $18.08, the gross payout for this ride should have been $16.43 but the driver on this ride only received $12.42. That means Uber made an extra $4 on this ride.

If we back calculate from the mileage and time, we can see that with current LA rates, the fare should have cost Evan $8.92 for mileage (9.91 miles at $0.90/mile) and $3.50 for time (23.3 minutes at $0.15/minute) or a total of $12.42. Which was the exact same number as the gross driver payout of $12.42. So it appears that on this ride, Uber was calculating the mileage and time payout correctly for the driver, but they overcharged the passenger by $4.

We helped Evan e-mail all of this information to Uber support, but they replied with information about UberPool (not what we asked) and said that “Going forward, please be reminded that your fare will not be calculated based on distance and time instead, it will be computed dynamically based on your locations.” That’s news to me but it still doesn’t explain why the driver doesn’t get that full “dynamic” fare.

Example 3: San Diego (Via Uber Man)

Uber Man did a video earlier this week detailing an instance where the passenger paid a hefty premium in comparison to what the driver was paid. You should check it out, and also subscribe to his channel because he is a cool dude. The fare he analyzed was actually on surge pricing for the driver, but apparently it was on an even higher surge for Uber.

Passenger Paid: $52.66

Driver Received: $35.73 (Gross)

Example 4: “Biff” in Colorado Springs

RSG reader “B. Sinclair” (name changed) gave a ride to a passenger in Denver only to find out that the passenger had paid $44.31 for his ride. The gross fare on Biff’s side only reflected $18.68 ($15.13 after Uber’s commission). Biff had this to say about how his passenger felt: “He was confused and dismayed. The night before he paid about $20 for the exact same ride, but was then quoted $42 on the return ride without any indication of a surge. My app at the time showed no surge pricing on the map or passenger profile on app once ride had begun.”

Passenger Paid: $44.31

Driver Received: $18.68

Why Is This Happening?

From my experience as a driver and passenger, it seems that the algorithm for calculating the Upfront Fare assumes a sort of crappy route and a crappy driver in order to ensure the passenger pays enough for the ride. At the end of the day, Upfront Pricing is really just a betting machine with the job of making sure all of the rides average out to a profit for Uber. The problem begins when Uber pockets the difference from the miscalculations.

It seems like drivers are still receiving the amounts they should based off the time and distance, but the passengers are being charged more. In some cases, a lot more.

Help Us Analyze “Upfront Pricing”

We would like to call on drivers to crowdsource the gathering and comparison of prices under “Upfront Pricing” in order to gain a more data-driven understanding of how this works. As pricing becomes more opaque, we think it is integral to track things for ourselves to make sure drivers and passengers are receiving a fair fare. With enough data, we can begin to make inferences about what type of rides to take or decline, or when it may be worth it to call another service (like Lyft) as a passenger.

If you are curious about how this works and want to help us out, please e-mail us with your screenshots or leave a comment below.

Drivers! What do you think is going on with Uber’s Upfront pricing model and have you noticed discrepancies in what your passenger pays and what you receive as a driver?

-Christian @ RSG

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In 2014, Christian left his job at a mental health center to drive full time for Lyft and Uber. Since then, he has driven for mostly Lyft with a little bit of Sidecar and Postmates thrown in for experimentation and Uber when he doesn't feel like talking to people. He likes to talk about Politics and Economics over a good beer to whoever will listen to him.

Obviously a non-surge $44 ride that previously cost $20 is indicative of a HUGE scam on Uber’s part, but I’m still partly confused about some of the “closer numbers” being posted here. They talk about the “dynamic” estimate versus what they actually charge, however obviously the driver is going to only get paid for the final account of distance and time. As far as I can tell, this is only “estimated” for the driver as well, if you’re trying to look at it just moments after the ride is complete, and in their fine print they do state that the pay could change by the time it actually goes out.

So, it’s not 100% clear in 100% of these instances: are we comparing what the *final* fee is for the rider, and the *final* payout is to the driver?

(For example after some rides that have something weird going on, such as my phone losing signal in a parking structure or tunnel during the ride, …the payout I see initially is $0.00, and it only actually shows up like a day later…)

I wouldn’t put it past Uber to be flat-out over-charging riders, or under-paying drivers. They’re obviously getting greedy as heck as the king of the hill. Cheating the little guy is par for the course in capitalism these days. But, I’ll certainly wait for more data before I start firing off angry emails to Uber.

I will definitely consider asking folks if they’d mind letting me snap a pic of their post-ride screen, though. Just gotta figure out how to word the question so they don’t think I’m doing something shady, and report me to Uber or something. I’d hate to be on the wrong end of what Uber fears is some sort of sting operation…

TLDR: if the rider’s fee is FINAL *immediately* after the ride, yet the driver’s payout is based on the original “dynamic” estimate, something is still fishy in at least some of these instances.

Alternately, if the rider’s fee is immediately final after the ride, but the driver’s (estimated) payout is based on the actual miles driven and time spent, NOT the original estimate, then some of these screenshots don’t necessarily prove anything.

I’d like to have verification that the driver’s screenshots are what actually went into their bank account, (maybe it was adjusted) not just what was estimated only moments after the ride.

I’ve always found that the amounts shown after the trip are the ‘final amounts’. Will double check in this case though. But either way, the much larger discrepancies (up to 50%!) still prove the same thing.

Agreed, the larger discrepancies are either a photoshopped hoax / lie, (unlikely?) …or Uber is really, really ballsy to be so blatantly ripping off either their drivers or their riders, or both.

Either way, what do you think is the best way to pose a question to a rider, so they don’t think you’re being shady? I’m thinking something along the lines of, “if it’s okay with you, may I snap a photo of your final fee screen? Some fellow drivers and I want to track what uber charges riders, versus what it pays drivers…”

Will Mette

You said “They’re obviously getting greedy as heck as the king of the hill.”
If that is so, how do you explain Uber’s huge loses?

Uber Loses at Least $1.2 Billion in First Half of 2016
After touting profitability in the U.S. early this year, the ride-hailing company is said to post second-quarter losses exceeding $100 million

Windygirl

They are being propped up by venture capitalists that stand to lose a LOT of money if this crashes and burns. So we always have that to look forward to!

H Singh

Loses>> Uber loosing money, 1.They are paying lots of money too State & city officials ( Lot under the table) for right to work. 2. Ad’s , 3.Court fines they have to pay and lawyers fees. 4. Law suits for there shady dealing with drives.5. Taking big Pay checks home

Christian Perea

Even though it says “Fare Estimate” its actually the final money paid to the driver for that fare. Uber uses “Fare Estimate” as a compliance measure for when a fare is (rarely) adjusted from Uber.

In all of the rides above, the driver attempted to contact Uber and were not able to change the amount they were paid.

Will Mette

So those negative UberPool “estimates” that I have seen elsewhere were subtracted from driver pay?

Tommy Gilley

As far as I’m concerned my fare should be based on what the customer pays in these types of situations. Pure shadiness.
I find it amazing that uber and Lyft are so convinced it will be one of them that ends up running the rideshare market. I would bet that neither one of them ends up being the primary ride share company in 5 years.

Will Mette

Whenever someone uses Uber’s “ESTIMATED FARE” vs. actual fare it does not convince me.
Rewrite this using ACTUAL fares to make it more believable.

Mountain Man

You’re obviously not a driver, where do you see “ESTIMATED FARE” on this article. The estimate part is the driver’s cut.

Will Mette

You’re obviously blind and only hear the text being read out loud. /sarcasm
In the first picture on the right half above “Estimated Payout” I see “Fare”. I assume that is also estimated.

Christian Perea

We used actual receipts from actual rides and for Biff and Evan, we verified their images and interactions with Uber support. Uber Man did the same in the video we linked.

Robert

Uber is ripping the drivers off to pay for their new Driverless Google Cars.

Christian Perea

“Pours a cup of change on the curb…”

“This ones for Bender!”

laughtiger

Great reporting on this. I hope regulators are paying attention. IMHO this is just underlines how the entire variable pricing scheme that Uber has brought into the taxi biz is about obfuscation and cheating both drivers and passengers.

Variable pricing should be BANNED and fares for Uber should be SET BY REGULATION just like they are for everyone else who provides taxi services. This would not only prevent the abuses documented here, it would mean that Uber would have to pay drivers a reasonable base rate, instead of leading them on with slippery “guarantees” and hopes for the surge.

Will Mette

The government should set rents, ticket prices for concerts & sports, …
Why should I have to pay more for a Milwaukee Brewers game than for a Madison Muskies game? /sarcasm

You say “it would mean that Uber would have to pay drivers a reasonable base rate”. Highly unlikely, do taxi drivers get a reasonable base rate? I did not think so, not after you factor in rent to the taxi millionaires.

laughtiger

Your analogy doesn’t fit. The issue is that Uber is using its variable pricing to obscure the amounts paid by passengers and to drivers, so that Uber can take an additional cut over and beyond what they are already saying they take. The purpose of setting fixed and knowable rates would be to protect consumers and workers, from being cheated and exploited.

And forget “millionaires,” Travis K is reputedly worth 6 Billion. It’s all about paying the taxi billionaires now! Though the Lyft guys, they might still be mere “taxi millionaires”…

shooter50

Uber is still paying you the agreed upon rate even when they charge the rider more. You agreed to the rate, now you’re crying like a little girl. Maybe you should come up with a brilliant idea to make yourself a billionaire and employ hundreds of thousands of people instead of whining here.

laughtiger

Amazing how some people will defend anything their masters do to screw them over. Have some backbone, shooter.

Brad

The rate they pay us may be agreed upon when initially signing up, but Uber is free to lower it until enough drivers leave the service due because they can make more elsewhere. Free market

Christian Perea

Seems like at the end of the day we are paying too much “rents”…whether that be to taxi cartels, government cartels, or a monopoly with a toilet seat logo.

laughtiger

The rent is too damn high!

Christian Perea

I think variable pricing can be useful, but it should require some means to ensure that consumers and drivers are protected. A sort of “weights and measures” thing…

laughtiger

I think Uber is already moving away from variable pricing to a degree. Consider those guaranteed multipliers by the hour, they are trying to attract drivers to certain hours without relying on the surge.

shooter50

Yeah, brilliant idea. Look how well thats worked out for the taxi’s

Mountain Man

Harry, I’m sure the screenshots the drivers sent on this article were not photoshopped as I don’t see a point of them doing that cause Uber can easily find out who they are with that screen shot. I view the article as a comparison to how POOL works. You may not always get paid what the rider pays Uber, just what the agreed pay rates of time and distance you drive is. So, if I have 1 rider in a Pool, I will probably get more than what the rider paid uder itself and if I have 3 riders in a pool I still get paid the same but Uber collects more on their end. I see the point of this article as the examples seem to indicate that Uber is overcharging some rides but what about on the POOL side where it seems it may be undercharging some rides.

Christian Perea

They are altered by me to conceal their identity and location. Other than that they are the real deal. I used paint though…not cool enough to use PS…too expensive. lol

john

I reviewed all my Uber rides last week by comparing the miles to the payouts and everything looks fine but then again all I can tell is that I got paid what I EXPECTED but if Uber is overcharging the drivers without giving me my standard cut there is no way I’d see that unless the rider shared their screenshot. WTF, this is disturbing and I guess one of the questions becomes is this a scam Uber is trying to pull or just negligence on their part (not that either is excusable). Unfortunately their responses as usual seem like they came from someone using a Magic 8-ball but it would be interesting to see what they say when someone actually gets around to actually giving a fairly intelligent response where they’re truly reviewing the issue at hand.

Joseph Rainey

So, I guess the question is should Uber pay drivers a fixed percentage of everything it charges riders OR a fixed percentage of miles + minutes driven? From the business perspective if a business can convince its customers to pay more for a product/service does that mean it should pay its suppliers more?

Christian Perea

I think this is shocking to most drivers because pays has ALWAYS been Base + Time X Distance in this business model.

Drivers have endured 3 years of price-cuts and increases in workloads while being told “lower prices, means more riders, means more money for drivers”- so seeing evidence of Uber raising the price of fares comes across as a ripoff to drivers.

At the end of the day, it all breaks down to whether or not driver “supplier” income is compelling enough to maintain (the very expensive) supply of drivers. So we will see 🙂

Agree. As I have said here many times the only true way we, as drivers, can get some leverage to make Uber address its abuses to both drivers and pax is to organize. I started a LinkedIn group called “Drivers United” Go there and share your thoughts and maybe we can build a collective and build a leveraged voice to get what we deserve.

Phil Forrest

Uber is just begging for an FTC investigation and eventual regulation.

Christian Perea

I think at the very least, the FTC should have knowledge on how the formula for calculating prices.

A wonderful expose’. Thanks for revealing what we always thought might be occurring in Uber pricing and payouts. It seems that Uber, notice its new mandatory UberPOOL requests, is under a lot of pressure to show a profit to its investors. Especially after Travis’s ego and ignorance of China’s culture cost billions in available cash and eventually retreated like Col. Custer’s wish. Tech start-up venture capitalists have only one objective. Make a killing with the eventual IPO. But currently, the books on Uber reveal a monumental loss of capital and as long as Travis is determined to kill Lyft with low pricing the losses will continue.
I didn’t see any surge or boost amounts in the driver’s screen shots. I may be wrong, but boost payments seem to be Uber’s efforts to subsidize its drivers and will not be reflected specifically on the passengers total, but may be included in the total amount the driver receives. If that’s the case, then Uber is charging the passenger the amount that they are subsidizing its drivers. I can tell you many reasons why this practice is illegal, but I am only assuming that this is the case.
This may also be why Uber has set up a default navigation platform that forces its drivers, those who accept Pool requests, to accept all new Pool requests and use only Uber navigation to complete the ride. Obviously, they didn’t like us having a choice to accept or not accept a second pool request. (If they’d realized that we would usually accept these requests if they had a better way of showing the request. A small banner notice that stayed on our smartphone for only a few seconds can be easily missed.)
The problem with UberPOOL default is being forced to use Uber nav. Uber nav is basically dangerous. No Bluetooth capability, frozen map, small font, arbitrary muting and an algorithm that is prone to panic and wrong directions. But this is another sign that Uber is desperate to show a profit.
In the end, the only way Uber will show a profit is when it recognizes that it must raise its rates for passengers. Understand that the public face of Uber is its drivers. But for this to happen, Uber must allow its drivers the ability to make a living.
Uber is a tech company without any understanding of how a positive labor force impacts its success. Only drivers treated and respected by their partners (Uber-Lyft) will make sure their passengers are happy.

john

I ran into that this weekend. I HATE the Uber Nav and a couple times resorted to manually entering the address into Waze when it was a destination I was unsure of. On the mandatory Pool, I was confused as to whether I accepted the back end of a Pool request because I usually don’t but there it was. I assumed I must have done so accidentally but now know Big Brother has made a change. Coincidentally it comes after I completed one of their surveys on Pool and gave feedback on why Pool screws drivers and then they do this lol. Oh well, if they try to force Pool on me I’ll just let it automatically accept the second ride but then just cancel it when I don’t want it since canceling is arguably better for meeting bonus goals than not accepting anyway.

Christian,
I don’t know where you drive, but as of the last week in LA, if you accept an UberPOOL request you are automatically moved to Uber’s nav platform. It overrides the navigation choice one made in the Uber app settings, be it either GoogleMaps or WAZE.

I don’t care if they use Travis’s zipper to direct me to a pax. I just want it to work as well as Google or WAZE. Uber nav is dangerous; no Bluetooth, frozen map, font so small it’s not readable and arbitrary sound muting. And finally, the app goes nuts and often give incomplete directions.

Christian Perea

I’m in SF. Admittedly, I do not do many UberPool rides as I tend to stick with Lyft up here and occasionally intermix it with Uber Select-only.

john

I really would skip all the Pool rides like you but when they have the guarantee in place then I’ll take enough to stay above the acceptance and cancel rates because the guarantee makes up for the lost 10%. Fortunately where I am in SD North County I rarely get the second half Pool request in fact the only reason I did this weekend was I was down in the city area.

Christian Perea

I ran a test with a few friends and a spreadsheet. We found that Boost is not (yet) reflected in the Upfront Pricing. It was actually the very first thing I suspected…

I was actually going to write a different article last week about how things like boost, upfront pricing, uberpool, and bonus money are all just ways to change how drivers get paid and will ultimately lead to Uber making more money from passengers while exerting more control over its workforce by incentivizing driver behavior/compliance along with fares.

Richie Schwartz

Here in NY, UberPool defauts to Google maps, NOT the Uber navigation. Normally most drivers use Waze. The reason is that Waze cannot add a new destination mid trip the way that the Google app can. I don’t see how Uber can have any influence over the route Google chooses.

mike johnson

Where do I join the lawsuit for the deceptive business practices? Why does Uber always try to get one up on the drivers? So instead of a surge price which they share with the driver. We have this replacement called UpFront which is a Surge replacement. Big difference is Uber doesn’t have to share UpFront with the driver due to the language in the agreement with the driver?

Uber is fully aware that drivers try to get passengers from point A to point B as fast as possible. For a driver time is money. Its more profitable for a driver to get as many rides as possible. Uber knows this so Uber will always come out on top in UpFront pricing due to overestimating the trip. It’s the same as SURGE only Uber doesn’t have to share the extra due to a legal language loophole some asshole lawyer found?

Christian Perea

Exactly. In the past, the money that Uber made was tied to Base + Time X Distance minus 75% to 80% of what the driver made.

With Upfront Pricing, the pay has become “Decoupled” and Uber is free to charge the passenger what they can without sharing with the driver. Similar to UberPool. Even if they can find a way to charge an extra dollar or two “off the top” for every ride (or even 70% of rides) than they stand to make a boatload of extra money.

It’s easy to ignore now as drivers because so many are getting things like Boost, Power Driver One, Power Driver Plus, and AHG’s- but once Uber has to become profitable again, this setup allows them to extract a lot of profit.

I hope that you’ll be sending this to the media. I smell another class action. Unless Lyft is pulling the same scam, their advertising budget for the quarter has already been paid. It’s the ride-share version of Wells Fargo.

Couple sites picked it up but I think it was over a lot of reporter’s heads 🙂

D G Spencer Ludgate

As a passenger, I have done some research on this. From my office (Torrance) to my home (Hollywood Hills) or LAX to my home, I am charged for a route that goes out of the way through Downtown Los Angeles. Here is what I have discovered:

1) The passenger/customer sees a map with the route that the stated price uses. This route pencils out (Los Angeles) $0.90/Mile $015/Minute and surge multiplier plus any fees.
2) The route Uber charges the customer is not the shortest (distance) route. Sometimes it is not the fastest (time) route either. For Example, Uber charges the customer 15 miles for Hollywood to Santa Monica – It maps out as La Brea to I-10. The shortest distance is 12 miles along Santa Monica Blvd. (Thus why I use Lyft from LAX to Hollywood.)
3) Per the Driver TOS, they get paid distance and time.
4) Since drivers tend to drive the shortest route, they tend to drive fewer miles than what the passenger was charged.
5) Yes, Uber is pocketing the difference.
6) Is Uber doing anything wrong – No. Uber displays a route to the passenger prior to the passenger accepting the trip. Uber pays drivers according to the Driver TOS.
7) Could a passenger request a fare adjustment – Maybe. I have not tried it since I know all Uber will do is give me ride credit. I do not like the idea of paying $10.00 more for a ride, just to have my money sit in Uber’s bank account until I ride again.

What I recommend we do:

1) As passengers, we need to take a screenshot of the route Uber is charging us. Then we need to take a screenshot of the route the driver took. Email Uber for a fare adjustment.
2) Drivers need to show the passenger the “Uber recommended route”. This will be a longer trip. Explain to the passenger that with Uber stated pricing, this is the route they are paying for. Drive the longer route so the drivers pocket the money instead of Uber. But remember, some passengers may still think you are purposely overcharging them.

Since I tip my Uber drivers, I would rather pay the lower fare to Uber and tip more money to the driver. I want to see my money go into the pocket of the driver who earned it.

WOLVERINES

Which is why Uber won’t show the driver the calculated fare for 15 or more minutes after the ride ends. They don’t want the driver and pax comparing notes.

After reading this post, I asked my driver yesterday to see how much she was taking away from the ride. She was compliant, but after waiting a few minutes i just left. It may be that they are intentionally delaying the readout for this reason…. ?

Christian Perea

I tried the same as a passenger when I took some Uber rides over the weekend. Same result as yours.

WOLVERINES

Uber did send us drivers an email awhile back saying they were going to change it back to “instant” read-out (which is the way Uber used to be, and the way Lyft currently does it). but they haven’t yet. I have a feeling it won’t happen.

Will Rusell

Plus what the heck did they added another UberPool to the trip without our permission. I thought we are Independent Contractor. and now they added right away UberPool. Its more like Employees where they directed you what to do.
I am okay with this except the part that some of the riders have a bad rating and rude. Plus there was a time that I just dropped off my 2nd Uber pool riders and was about to completed the trip., and guess what??!! they added another Uber Pool rider.

W. Curtis Preston

If you don’t like the way UberPool works, you can still refuse to accept UberPool rides. Once you’ve started one, though, you’ve agreeing to deliver it the way that Uber wants it delivered.

Will Rusell

Thats so true..They did it on purpose.

mplsrain

Yes and if you try to call the rider (after completed trip) it won’t go through because Uber filters the calls between passenger and driver. they probably do for security reasons.

Veeezy DaVirus

You can say passenger left item in vehicle ()and uber will give the rider the drivers number to call. Network and exchange information then.

Windygirl

That makes so much sense now!

Christian Perea

You hit the nail on the head for the example I used. I think there may be a surge/time problem in addition the route it quotes the passenger based off of the LA example from Evan and the Colorado Springs example.

D G Spencer Ludgate

As I said, the Rider does see a map of the route they are being charged for. This does pencil out. The problem is the Driver does not know what route Uber is using.

I use Uber a lot for business travel. I always examine the route prior to accepting. If I believe Uber is overcharging me, I use Lyft.

I have spoken with other Uber drivers about this. The experienced drivers are now using the rider app to see Uber’s routes on popular trips in their areas. Some drivers and riders have complained to Uber, have seen the stated price change on future rides to the shorter route; only to have it change back two weeks later.

This is nothing more than a stealth fare increase. Since most riders do not pay attention when they order a ride, they do not realize they are being overcharged.

Windygirl

Here I’ve been telling riders I can take the “fastest route” (according to Uber) or the shortest route, according to my experience in order to save them money. Apparently the only one I’m shortchanging is me.

esquared87

I think Uber is actually doing something wrong. They are supposed to only take 20% or 25% (depending on city) of the fare charged the rider. If the rider is paying one fare, the driver should receive their designated percentage of THAT fare.

D G Spencer Ludgate

From what I understand, drivers have amendments to the TOS that they must accept prior to logging into the app. The amendments state the per mile and per minute rate that Uber pays them and Uber’s fees.

Rayburn Vore

Wait a minute. They are showing us one fare under the trip detail and calculating our pay based on that. Then they simply charge the rider a different , higher fare than the one they told us they charged. That sounds like fraud. I’m going to read it again, but I’m pretty sure the TOS does not give them permission to skim like that.

Willie Wilmette

They are paying the driver actual minutes & miles per the contract.
They are charging the passenger a flat rate determined before the trip begins.
If you want to hurt Uber, drive the speed limit. 🙂

With the low per minute rates you’d end up hurting yourself. Not that I drive above the speed limit or anything…

mplsrain

I noticed right away… I used to ride to work with Uber and it was $7. Now I’ve driven people twice that distance and they are supposedly billed $6. I’ve got a lot of fares for $4.12 and I’m pretty upset. plus I’m paying Uber lease $160 a week

W. Curtis Preston

That has nothing to do with fixed fares and everything to do with them dropping the rates in your city. You’re also comparing passenger rates with driver rates. A $4.12 driver payment equates to a $5.50 passenger payment PLUS the safe rider fee. That comes out to about $7.

Dre Breeze

Exactly no ifs and buts about it ..

dagoon79

In the end, it seems that you can simply look at your net profit and compare it what Uber takes; doesn’t matter if there is pool or not. If the net difference is showing that they are taking more than 25% then you should go to one of the drivers centers to dispute it. If they still don’t follow up to make up the difference small claims is only $50 to file.

wcpreston

Out of curiosity, I put in about 20 locations into my rider app and asked for a fare, then I punched the same two addresses in Google Maps. In all 20 cases, the route Uber showed was the exact same route Google suggested. And in most cases, the fare was slightly less than what I got if I put our local mile/min rate in a spreadsheet and plugged in Google’s numbers. There was one case where the fare was $1 or so higher using the same route that Google put in.

Here’s a question: does the price I’m being quoted as a fixed fare include the rider fee? If so, why does the fare match up almost exactly to what I get from Google and a spreadsheet without the rider fee?

D G Spencer Ludgate

Admittedly, over the last three months Uber’s algorithm has gotten better. I start to see the overcharges under these circumstances: 1) routes over 10 miles 2) routes that have more than one logical path.

For example, from Hollywood to Santa Monica (walk of fame to pier). The direct route via Santa Monica Blvd is 12 miles / 50 minutes. The direct freeway route is 15 miles / 43 minutes. But at night, the indirect freeway route may be faster 25 miles / 47 minutes. Uber always calculates it by the 15 mile direct freeway route.

wcpreston

And what happens in that scenario if you are quoted a fixed rate based on the 15 mile direct route, but the driver takes the 25 mile faster, but indirect route? According to the FAQs on Upfront Pricing, the riders’ fee should stay the same. Have you tested that?

wcpreston

There are two issues here: the customer being charged more than they otherwise would and drivers being paid less than 75% of what the customer paid. I’m not sure I’m that worried about the first. The customer is told the price for the trip upfront. If they don’t like it, they can always try alternatives. Pretty sure Lyft still does variable pricing, for example. So unless the customer is charged a price different than what they agreed to, I don’t consider this overcharging.

The driver is also not technically being underpaid. They are being paid according to what they drove. No more, no less. This is very similar to the pool argument. There will be times when Uber underestimates the mileage and you will be paid a higher percentage of the trip, and there will be (admittedly probably more ) times where they overestimate the fare and you get paid less than 75%/80% of what the rider paid. In THINK the solution to always getting paid 75% of what they pay is to use the Uber GPS during your trip, not Google Maps or Waze. It would SEEM that it would take you the same route that it used to calculate their price.

DallasGrant

I am wondering, if the customer is charged this guaranteed fare, but wants to add multiple trips to the occasion, am I still charged less than I should? I ask this because over the past month, my Uber pay has dropped significantly. In fact, New Year’s was one of the worst paying Saturday Night I ever had even though it was my busiest. If I didn’t have an Uber Lease, I would drop Uber all together and do only Lyft because it feels like I make so much more money with that company (and not because of tips)

W. Curtis Preston

Whether the customer changes the trip or doesn’t change the trip, you are always paid for all the miles you drive. What they pay has nothing to do with what you get paid. BUT if they do change the trip, it will change what they pay. The Upfront fare will no longer apply if they add stops or change the destination.

Christian Perea

correct

Christian Perea

No, the fare should be adjusted from there. Just make sure to tell the app that you made multiple stops.

Miranda Jones Bahr

Lyft has the express drive program too!

Christian Perea

I think the algorithm is getting better. I took a ride a few days ago and the driver received $19 on my $27 ride, which is a 27% capture by Uber. So it seems to be getting better.

My biggest concern is that as time goes on, and Uber NEEDS to get profitable, that they will find away to open the spread between what passengers are charged vs. what drivers receive in compensation.

Mike G

That is not true, pay is based on what the customer pays according the Uber.

Willie Wilmette

DO you have a source (webpage or email)?

DallasGrant

As reference to this, I always take the fastest route… It isn’t always the shortest, but I see time is money so I get the person to his or her destination as quickly as possible so I can get that next fare that much sooner. I avoid heavy traffic when I can and I am a senior map editor for Waze so if I have an issue with the navigation, I fix it so it never happens again… Riders appreciate this completely so I would probably never take the Uber route

Miranda Jones Bahr

Hi! This has nothing to do with uber, but I see that you said you work for waze. I love using the app. But could I make a suggestion to better it? Put in an option to avoid residential/side roads! Like the avoid toll roads toggle. I drive for lyft full time and use only waze for navigation. But it drives me batty that I have to look ahead at the directions to stay on the main roads. It will have me drive up to 10 min longer by taking the side roads and the passengers notice. I know there are many of us in the detroit market that use waze, and we all have the same comments and thoughts. Just a suggestion! Thanks!

DallasGrant

I don’t work for Waze, but I am a volunteer editor for the application (hardly any editors get paid to do work) … It shouldn’t just take the side roads, unless it would be a faster route. If it is preferring a slower route, then something is not correct on the maps. I will bring this to the attention of editors who live in the Detroit area and see if they can find reasoning on why this would happen.

DallasGrant

btw, do you know areas that this happens most often?

Russell Weaver

19.20 – 17.36 = 1.84 not 1.86 I understand a lot of work went into this story and I would like to know where the money is or refund passenger. But if you were to walk into the courtroom with your figers off that could jeopardize your case and have it thrown out so back to the drawing board and remembera $1.84 is not a $1.86.

Jessi Enlow

Hello, just started driving for Uber this weekend. Ran into trouble with their navigation system. Question is how do I switch to Waze and still keep Uber up??

Will Mette

Go to account, click settings, click Navigation Provider.
This will not solve your problem, Uber sends a geocode to the GPS app. This connects to the nearest street or alley.
On March 12 http://theridesharepro.com/Blog.html showed how to fix this.

I have to disagree with you, because I don’t think it’s calculating upfront fares based upon indirect and/or delayed routes. It seems that the upfront fare is operating from some kind of phantom surge, which only Uber collects on. The price gouging is undoubtedly happening on x% of Uberx fares.

robynquinn

I always had an intuitive feeling that something was not right. I couldn’t figure it out and can’t explain it. But this article just did. I look at totals all the time and think, I should be getting paid more…not sarcastically but literally.

srikanthlogic

I wrote about same a while back. Shown example for the crappy algorithm which helps Uber pocket this. http://wp.me/p7OOrY-nu No response from Uber

H Singh

I am Uber driver . Uber makes anywhere from 40% to 60 % of total fare. They are ripping drive and pax all the time. Uber pool is there new scam.

Phil Forrest

A paying passenger who was ripped off (and has driver data to back it up) should file a deceptive trade practice complaint with the FTC against Uber: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov

Shawn

I had noticed two instances of this back in September last year while driving in Virginia. At first I thought it was a fluke. A system error. Then at the end of one ride I asked the pax if she would mind sharing the actual fare she was charged. Her fare was $15.25……yet the partner app was showing the fare as $13.10. My take was $10.48 (yes…. I used to be a 20% driver) I had emailed support about “the error” which they actually corrected my take then. I did not realize this was a practice which Uber is conducting. (sorry…. Screen shots were taken but are long gone. 🙁

Uber started out as a pioneer of the Sharing Economy. Along with Lyft, Craigslist, and Airbnb they broke down market inefficiencies and allowed people to tap unused capital. Uber is no longer doing that. They are now introducing artificial inefficiencies and ultimately subverting what they set out to do.

The Sharing Economy or in this case the “access economy” works and profits by creating an efficient mechanism to set prices in what should be as frictionless a process as possible. There should be minimal overhead and maximal service. The original Craigslist model of someone posting an offer of service or vice versa someone requesting a service is the classic open market method: Offer and Bid. Granted having drivers and riders texting back and forth in a full on auction would be impractical. And what Uber set out doing was offering people with cars and time a price and seeing how many would respond. On the rider side the same thing, they advertised a price, it could fluctuate with surges but it essentially created about as frictionless an open market as possible. Uber collected a fee for its services which included the system to conduct the transaction and provided a mapping service to facilitate the carrying out of the transaction.

Now they key to having it be frictionless as possible involves keeping that overhead charge to a minimum. That means really only including those things that properly belong there. Once Uber and Lyft got flush with cash the vision got clouded. Now they are stressing the system by trying to see how much they can extract. The Sharing Economy works because it creates efficiencies between capital and customer. Ideally the sharing system isn’t really just a siphon for skimming money. Then it just becomes its own form of market inefficiency.

My point is that the creation of the driverless car system should be a totally separate venture with capital and government investment put into it strictly for that purpose. Right now investors are seeing a skewed picture of what is working and what isn’t. For community planners thinking about adopting the Uber model for public transportation and investors looking to invest in the access economy we need unpolluted data. There have been instances of cities launching their own ride sharing services. This should continue. I think there is a definite need for a truly public system that provides the infrastructure in a non-profit or minimal profit mode. Mapping technology is available from several sources and pretty much everything else Uber provides is off the shelf.

For those at Uber and the major car companies your vision of the driverless car future will be easier to realize if there is a healthy and functioning sharing infrastructure in place. Don’t strangle one with the other.

Matthew S.

I’ve definitely noticed this because typically my ride home from the bar has always been the minimum fare ($5.00) if there’s no surge but now the “Estimated Fare” once I input my destination is now always $5.45. I know minimum fares suck, but I use Uber to get home because I’m carrying large sums of cash & don’t want to be walking even the 10 minute walk home. I don’t mind paying the additional $0.45 (plus my normal tip to the driver), but I want to be sure the driver is getting it and not Uber shorting the driver.

Kiwi

I think this is only seeing the story from one side…I’m a driver here and there are times where I’ve made more than what the rider paid because of upfront pricing…it works both ways. As there are multiple ways to choose a route, so if I,the driver takes a shorter route (costs $9.50) then the upfront pricing estimate was say ($10), then the rider would still pay the upfront pricing they saw ($10), but as a driver I’ll be making money off the $9.50. BUT it works the other way around as well. If I take a longer trip ($11) than Upfront priced trip ($10), I make my margins off the $11….but that will not be as good of a story now would it RSG?

Haha you’re right – that wouldn’t be as good of a story. That could explain the small discrepancies and it’s actually how UberPool pricing already works: therideshareguy.com/how-does-uberpool-pricing-work/ But I don’t think that’s the case since if you do alter course and take a longer trip, the passenger can/is charged more.

1. How do we know that Uber is losing money on some and making money on others and things all balance out on their own? Should we trust Uber? Sorry but history has told me I should not do that so if anything more transparency should be required of Uber and other companies.

2. I still don’t see how the large fares could be explained. Uber is over-estimating by up to $20-$30, sounds like they need to work on their estimates then ASAP.

Evan Kaufman

For everyone wondering how to ask a rider for their side of the payment screen, the easiest thing would be to ask a friend, son, daughter, co-worker etc… just somebody you know. And pay them back for the ride or something in cash afterwards if need be.

Yea true. Especially since it now takes 1-2 mins. or more for the Uber driver app to ‘process’ the final amount. Not sure why that’s happening though as the calcs on the driver side are the same as they’ve always been.

Maybe they are waiting to make sure that there were no passenger complaints or that the payment had actually finished processing. Depending on the card and the pay system it is processing through it might take a few minutes. I suspect that if the passenger somehow stiffs them you as the driver will get stiffed as well.

On the other hand if I’ve done a bunch of short rides in quick succession I can have as many as four rides processing. But if I go home and pull up the Uber site on my computer the rides are processed, or at least the final total is there. Yet when I check my phone they still show processing.

scott myers

So is the moral of the story that riders should just not use upfront pricing?

The moral is that we need immediate investigation into the possibility of a huge scam that could easily be pocketing Uber many thousands of dollars…or just a handful of misunderstandings about how the system works / is displayed on separate ends of the system.

Captain Vyom

That is neither here nor there. Good luck getting Uber to reveal their algorithms. The moral of the story is that passengers might want to consider not using upfront pricing so that they aren’t ripped off with these charges that are much higher than what the actual time and distance entail.

Annie J Fullwood

Your examples are faulty… A trip that cost the customer $18.50 the breakdown is this: 18.50-1.65 rider fee=16.85 then the 25% fee is subtracted from the fare is $4.21 then the balance to the driver is: $12.64. So the driver payouts are correct.

Uber is getting ridiculous. I accepted an Uber Pool trip yesterday, got into the pick up location and waited for 3minutes. Texted the rider but no response. Then Uber added another Uber Pool request to the trip. Since I waited for more than I supposed to (2minutes), I cancelled the request and headed to the 2nd Uber Pool. After Picked up the 2nd rider, they added another UberPool rider which is the 3rd rider. After completed the trip. How shocked I was that I didnt get the cancellation fee from the first trip. When contacted Uber, they told me to provide them the trip ID. Even worst, it was not even listed there, like somehow It never happened. Uber is ripping drivers off.
In addition, the 3rd rider showed me the price she was charged for which $11+. And while, I only received $3.28.
Now you can see how much Uber keep the differences. They either overcharged riders, or underpaid drivers. Shame on them. I guess this is it, not gonna drive for Uber anymore.

They should have definitely given you the cancellation fee for the first pax. I wonder if they require you to wait 5 mins though – lmk what Uber says on that one.

Will Rusell

Hi Harry,

The responses from the Uber representative was crap. They insisted that I didn’t wait for 2minutes enough for me to receive the cancellation fee. Where absolutely and definitely sure that I waited for at least 3 minutes. Because I always check on my watch and I also always text the riders that I already arrive at the location.

Per my knowledge,

UberPool – (1) if the rider cancel the request after 2 minutes from the moment accepted by drivers, drivers are entitle to cancellation fee. (2) if drivers have waited for 2 minutes on the pick up location and riders do not show up, drivers are entitle to cancellation fee. (3) if the riders cancel the request once driver has arrived at the pick up location, drivers are entitle to cancellation fee.

Uber X – (1) if the rider cancel the request after 5 minutes from the moment accepted by drivers, drivers are entitle to cancellation fee. (2) if drivers have waited for 5 minutes on the pick up location and riders do not show up, drivers are entitle to cancellation fee.

Last but not least, may I ask whats your opinion on Uber Pool Feature where Uber will automatically added UberPool request to the trip without our consent or approval ?
It is just frustrating that they put whatever people they wanted us to give them a ride. I had some UberPool which Uber added automatically, and these riders are just as***le and have ratings lower than 4.7.
In addition to this feature, I had experience where I finally dropped the 2nd pax of the Uber Pool and I planned to go offline and headed back home. Before I even gave a rating to my rider, suddenly the was another Uber Pool.
Well, Uber claimed that all riders are Independent Contractor and we are free to choose if we want to take it or not, but with this automatically added on UberPool, without drivers accept the request, somehow it makes us as an Employee, because they directed us what to do.
Would you mind sharing 2cent of you perception in this matter ? or perhaps making video or post in this matter to raise the awareness.

Thanks
Rusell

Will Mette

https://help.uber.com/h/6bec690f-ee35-40ba-96ee-c38a8ae796e0 says “Cancellation fees may differ depending on your city and selected vehicle option. Many cities have a 5 minute charge-free cancellation window. In other cities, you may be charged a fee for cancelling more than 2 minutes after a driver is en route to your pickup location.”

Eclectic707

In Dallas/Fort Worth, Uber no longer charges cancellation fees at all…which means you can drive 20-minutes out of your way, arrive and wait, only for the pax to cancel…and you get ZERO compensation. This is what Uber does when they can get away with it. From reading this article, it’s as clear as crystal that each day they are working up new scams to rip both drivers and riders off. The drivers, most especially.

Windygirl

I try to take a screen shot when I arrive for the passenger so I have their address and their name (I had Uber request a pax name for a dispute once) and I use these to reconcile at the end of the night to make sure I’m paid for all rides. It’s reassuring to have at least this info when it comes up with 0 for the ride on occasion. The screen shot also has the time stamp from your phone, so that helps narrow it down as well.

I think it is wrong. Perhaps not illegal but morally wrong. I think our best shot at putting a stop to this is make every passenger possible aware that this is going on and let them complain to Uber. As far as I know lyft isn’t doing this, and in most cities it’s an option the riders can hold over Uber’s head. After all, technically it is the passenger they are stealing from by charging them more than the actual trip should cost. In a way, the tip they always insisted is included in the fare now is and they keep 100 percent of it for themselves.

Yea if you can get some pax mad about this, I guarantee Uber will take a look at it.

infoking

I do believe this is happening. My question is, does this not make Lyft a cheaper option for the passenger in most cases? I think they still charge according to actual time and miles. Once riders catch on to this, some (perhaps most)will migrate over to the Lyft platform. That could be what brings Uber around. We have to find a way to raise awareness of this scam!

Oh it’s definitely happening but Uber’s justification is that sometimes they over-charge, sometimes they under-charge. Still, I think it shouldn’t take an article like this for them to admit that 🙂

Lyft could be cheaper on average now since Uber seems to be vastly over-estimating in some cases.

infoking

Have you seen any evidence yet of an undercharge? I kind of doubt the ever estimate low.

Will Mette

OK, they estimate high, but I expect that if you drove real slow and took a longer route you would see an undercharge (and a hit to your star rating). If an accident closed the interstate you might see an undercharge.

So Uber is increasing revenues from the pax instead of reducing driver pay, is this a first for Uber? Will this make them profitable?

infoking

First, they have reduced the pay in my market twice since I started driving. The reason I bring it up is, what happens if they set the destination in the app to a location 5 miles away and then have the driver take them to their “real” destination that is 35 miles away? Uber has smart people working for them. I promise you they have already anticipated that scenario and have a failsafe in place to prevent severe undercharges. That is all I was trying to say.

Will Mette

Good point, if you keep driving 6 miles for each 5 mile trip Uber will undoubtedly deactivate you. I am not encouraging anyone to defraud Uber.

infoking

I actually think you missed my point. I never have and never will take a longer route than necessary unless instructed to do so by my passanger. I seriously doubt very many drivers try to cheat the system. Read what I said again and think about it. I am not talking about drivers padding miles.

infoking

On a side note, I am absolutely not encouraging anyone to ever try to cheat Uber or it’s drivers.Anyone that thinks that’s what I’m doing is not paying attention. What I am saying is, do be shocked if you try to cheat and it doesn’t work out well for you.

infoking

You say “undercharges are possible”. Now we have come full circle back to my original question. Does anyone have any evidence to support this claim? That is what I originally asked. No one has offered any evidence yet. So far I have not seen a single credible example anywhere of undercharges and until I do, I will not believe that it is possible. So label me a doubting Thomas if you wish. As least there is now clarity as to where we differ. I am also not so sure the passengers would remain “happier” if they knew. Ignorance is bliss, so for now they might be happier. I am all for Uber making a profit. Perhaps admit that all the fare cuts were a bad idea and put them where they should be. Then we can all make some money. Sound good?

Will Mette

You missed my point, undercharges are possible, if not likely. I never said you should drive slower (it would lower your earnings per hour) or drive out of the way just to make more money (until they deactivate you).

The pax are happier knowing the cost up front, the drivers get paid the same as before dollar-wise (but not percentage-wise), Uber makes more money and may turn a profit for the first time.

DallasGrant

I hear what you are saying…you are saying a rider could choose a short trip, then tell the driver that the end point was incorrect…. Right now, I am wondering if a customer was charged correctly for a trip he accidentally set for Texas (I’m in Minnesota) when he really was going less than. 5 mins away.

Windygirl

Uber desperately needs to show some actual profit and found they couldn’t take even more from the drivers, so they’re screwing the passengers? lol Geniuses!

How can Uber charge a 20-25% commission and then also charge a booking fee off the driver fare. That can cone up to 35% commission on minimum fare trips! Isn’t this fraud or false advertising?? How can you show the driver and rider different amounts? Why isn’t there a Lawsuit regarding this? For people who have completed thousands of rides that means thousands of dollar secretly kept by Uber.

Will Mette

Uber charges you a 20-25% commission on minutes, miles…
Uber charges the pax 100% commission on safe rider, …
It is in their contracts somewhere, but see if you can find a lawyer who is interested in trying to squeeze $1 million out of Uber. If they all back down, there must be a reason.

Yeah I was never going to even look at Lyft, I was happy with Uber. But after my experience this morning I’m going to check Lyft out. My post trip email said 2.38 miles and 6:32 minutes so my charge should have been 5.35 (5.50 minimum) for UberX. But I payed 5.67

Interesting and yea first ride free with lyft so why not? 🙂 therideshareguy.com/passenger/lyft

Andie Mimosas

What I have recently observed, specifically with Uberpool is that they will quote me a guaranteed cost at the beginning of my ride and overcharge me in the end. This has happened three times. It has nothing to do with the route taken. These are supposed to be guaranteed prices. On one ride they charged me an additional $8 on a $5 quoted route. All three times I filed a complaint and they adjusted the cost. This is illegal and smells a whole lot like an impending lawsuit.

Hmm that doesn’t sound right – what did Uber say when you e-mailed them?

Andie Mimosas

Each time they reiterated that I would be charged the guaranteed amount and stated that an adjustment would take place and a credit would be issued.

Christian Perea

Well now I have to go check all of my charges from Uber to make sure they havent been doing that to me!

wcpreston

My experience was the same here, too.

wcpreston

I have this happen to me all the time. It’s bad enough that I’ve taken to taking a screenshot of the proposed fixed fare in case I need it to show to them.

Emeka

I registered with Uber for the first time, and I took a ride to JFK airport in New York to see how much the fare cost. I thought Uber fare will be cheaper than the other driving companies fare, but it is not. I travelled from Brooklyn to JFK airport. With regular taxi, the fare is within $50 to $70 dollars. At the end of the trip, I paid about $71+ for the ride. I was mad with myself, because I could have gotten the $60.00 for the trip from other taxis. Uber is a ripped off. After this experience, I am comtemplating setting up an app where drivers can get passengers and get their full payment, and only pay for using the app. Uber is not overpricing its fare just because it does not have many competition out there.

So UberX in NYC is actually the same price as taxis due to extra regulations but in every other city, it’s 40-60% cheaper than a taxi. As long as it’s not surging… 🙂

wcpreston

And they wonder why we don’t want them to regulate Uber. 😉

Eclectic707

Emeka…that’s a great idea…and if you decide to build this app, I’d love to assist you. I’ve worked up many ways in which such a TNC could operate, benefitting both drivers and riders alike. Initially, one key for success would be in getting all Uber and Lyft drivers to switch over completely. Once that new model has gained traction, Uber (and others that follow in their wake) would be left behind to sink in the cesspool they’ve created.

Emeka

Thanks @Eclectic707,
I will indeed let you know when I get such app. I believe drivers should be benefiting from running the business of driving. Uber should not be collecting such amount of percentages as profit. Drivers should be giving some encouraging financial incentives that will allow them to drive with satisfaction. There is maintenance, insurance, and fueling cost to run those vehicles. I think Uber should not collect anything above 50% of any ride. Uber only maintain a website, and not fleets of cars.

Eclectic707

I couldn’t agree more. During the startup period, I can see how taking 20% of all fares may be reasonable until the infrastructure is sound and the business is built; as long as fares are priced so that drivers profit after all their expenses. Past that point, the percentages taken should drop lower and lower with time.
Please let me know if you need my email. I’m not sure if my Eclectic707 screen name leads to my gmail account or not.

Eclectic707

Emeka, I just wanted to follow back up with my email: ryanfreer77@hotmail.com. Let me know when you receive this so I can remove my email from this public discussion. I definitely look forward to talking with you. 🙂

Veeezy DaVirus

Put me on the mailing list

Robert Steven Flores Perez

I joined Uber and started working less than 2 weeks ago. In about a 100 trips, I’ve disputed a few fares and the 2 fares they have adjusted to my favor, they made the mistake of stating what they actually charged customers which is higher than what they reported to me, bringing their actual fees to about 35%. What they are doing maybe technically legal, but it is certainly not transparent, and above all not ethical. Anything unethical can become illegal with proper litigation!!!

Having been an Uber rider in October and then becoming a driver in November I can easily see the discrepancy in what I’m being paid. I figure it’s (a minimum of) $2 per ride that I’m being cheated out of and so far I’ve done 54 rides which is $108.00. Local news in Pittsburgh did a story on this last night and confirmed my suspicions

wcpreston

Where do you see this? Are you referring to the “Safe Rider” fee that Uber takes out of every fare and doesn’t give you a piece of? It shows on the pax app but not on the driver app. That’s a real problem but not the same as what we’re talking about here.

wcpreston

Harry, doesn’t this only apply to fixed price rides like Pool? Are there other fixed price rides? Because in any other type of ride, the mileage for the pax and the driver would be the same.

No this applies to UberX now too because the rider is quoted an upfront price and the driver is based solely off mileage/time.

I think it would make sense that it’s 50/50 but I guess you have to put your faith in a billion dollar company with a not so great track record 🙂 And yes it’s essentially the same system that Pool uses – a betting algorithm.

Dre Breeze

If they say your not entitled to any fare that is clear evidence that they are misleading resulting in millions of dollars stolen. Someone needs to be prosecuted for these practices.

Veeezy DaVirus

So is driving the longest route, the one estimated for the rider, the recommended option since they have already agreed to pay for it and the only way to recieve that estimation in driver payout?

I have a solution so passenger can save.
Don’t type your destination, all you have to do is type in something stupid in destination bar, the app will keep searching and will give the option to skip destination.

Wow so these were taken at the same time? I’ve never seen evidence that Uber is giving some drivers better guarantees than others but thanks for sharing – will include in a future post for sure if that’s ok with you.

Ralph Edward Tellez Sr.

Yes i have more than this my girl and i did 4 test rides and what she was paid as a driver as to what was on my bill for all four rides was completely different…one ride charged me almost 7 dollars to cross the street during no surge and she was only paid 3.75

Windygirl

My question is whether or not Uber is applying this excess they are collecting to the Uber driver’s alleged receipts from them. I may not be making sense, but I’ve read in the past that Uber reports ALL fees received from riders as driver income and drivers are supposed to turn around and deduct it from taxes as if Uber is providing a service. Don’t worry, I’m getting an accountant. BUT… I’m going through all of my bank statements and recording all money received from Uber/Lyft and comparing it to the total Uber says I’m getting. I don’t trust them any further than I can throw them.

It seems that if enough people are able to gather evidence of this skimming, it only costs $50 to file small claims court where you can present the evidence against Uber. But of course, in small claims in California you can’t have legal representation, but again if you have substantial evidence like in the article above, what would you have to lose if it’s that blatant on Uber’s part?

ALLTEK GAMER

I noticed this my very first day. Just yesterday I took someone to the airport and Uber gave me $11 for a 45 minute ride. I had to contact them to fix it (they gave me $53… Big difference), but what if I hadn’t called? They would pocketed all that money. I feel like I’m getting scammed for every ride I give. I thought I was working for a great company but I was wrong.

Yea, that seems very odd. Although my experience at contacting Uber support have gone like the conversation below. The problem is that when an Uber rep believes they’ve solved your problem, they close the ticket. Then when you respond you get a completely different person. So the conversation looks like this (I have several of these):

Me: Hey you charged/paid me this wrong amount:
Uber: Here’s $5/10/20. Our bad. Close ticket.
Me: WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?
Uber: Um…. I see you’ve already been helped by another rep and they credited your account. Close ticket.
Me: WHY DID THAT HAPPEN?
Uber: Why did WHAT happen?
Me: (explain the whole thing)
Uber: I’ll look into that
(Delay)
Uber: It looks like there was a problem but you were credited $5/10/20. Close ticket.
Me: Seriously, can someone read my question and respond? (put entire problem, including the fact that I’ve already been credited the amount and am just looking for any answer as to why this happened in the first place)
Uber: Let me look into that.
Uber: It looks like there was a problem but you were credited $5/10/20. Close ticket.
Me: Never mind. I give up.
Uber: We win

This is a major issue. I only drive Uber for my commute and often pick up passengers for the same route. And I’m very familiar with the typical fare for this route. Pax are being charged up to double what the “fare” actually is. Plus. The “estimated” fare quoted and charged the Pax has never, ever been similar or even close to the actual fare the drivers fee is based upon. Smells like a scam.

Well why not just take a cab? I thought uber was a response to all the big, bad taxi ripoffs out there. Uber seems to be ripping people off more and more as time goes on. It’s completely obvious that uber wants to replace all human drivers as quickly as possible, so then you won’t have anything to complain about, I suppose. Uber hasn’t made one thin dime of overall corporate profit yet, but once they don’t have to worry about paying for drivers anymore, they will be flush with cash. If you doubt any of this, you’re silly. Do the math. Add it up. Read what’s going on. If Uber has anything to say about it, in a few short years you’ll all be out of a job and the Uber execs will be filled with glee and will have really fat bank accounts after going public. With Uber, if you’re not with Corporate you’re screwed, whether you’re a driver or a passenger. Personally, if I see a cab sitting there waiting, that’s what I take…I see no reason to wait even a few minutes for a rideshare if a cab is already there, has a meter that I can see, and I have GPS on my phone. Even if I AM ripped off by the cab…what’s the difference???

Will Mette

In Chicago, cabs charge twice as much as Uber. So, 5% to 10% extra is still cheap compared to taxis. If you call a taxi it usually takes 30 minutes for them to arrive, if they show up at all. Taxi drivers have no incentive to make the ride pleasant like Uber’s rating system does. Uber has upfront pricing so you know what it costs in advance so you can reject them if it is too high, taxis do not do this except for some airport runs.
The real problem here is that Uber drivers were promised 75% of the fair, they are not getting it, they feel underpaid, and could really use that extra 5% to 10%.

Alex

I’m a passenger and I commute to work/back using Uber every day. During a normal day, my route is made up 95% of toll roads. The upfront pricing assumes that the driver will take the toll route and therefore my upfront pricing includes tolls. Where the problem arises is when there’s heavy traffic on the toll roads and the driver takes side streets. I still get charged the “toll route” upfront pricing, but don’t actually take any tolls. Every time this happens I have to contact Uber support to adjust the fare. Uber gives me a hard time disputing these and only refunds me about 50% of the time. This is extremely frustrating since I know I’m being ripped off. What’s the point of having $0.85/mi and $0.10/minute rates if they will be ignored?

That’s annoying – so you can avoid Upfront Pricing by typing in something like ‘xzzzdssdffs’ and then the app can’t find the destination and you can click ‘skip destination’. Then once your driver accepts, add the destination and you should pay regular per mile/per minute rates.

Robert Bradshaw

I don’t know how applicable you might find this, but I often take an Uber pool from home to work, usually costing about $6. This morning the price listed was $20 to ride. I opened up my driver app to check the surge pricing, the surge was listed at 2.0x. that seems like a pretty fast discrepancy from the expected $20. Tragic at this point in the day is good bad enough to add an extra $10 for time ( There is no way your adding an hour to a trip anywhere in Boston)

Why would they sue me for slander? I don’t think we’ve ever said anything that’s untrue.

Will Mette

Like I said, they do need facts to sue you. They might want to silence discussions.
Why would anyone sue Uber? The pax pay the upfront amount and pays the drivers the agreed upon per minute & per mile amounts.

Freeway

Uber is a scam and is the most unethical company in America. I hope their frequent scandals do them in for good. Someone will always love to take their place.

Aardvarkprops Props

Uber quoted me 9.38 for a pick up and drop off of a client. We elected car pool. The driver opted to just take her by herself. The charge was 38.62…4 times the quote. Filing a lawsuit for fraud and bad business practices…

Aardvarkprops Props

WOW! I just threatened them with litigation and instantly got a 29.34 refund….Sad but true…being a hard-ass is the only way to get treated right anymore.

Aardvarkprops Props

This literally happened while I was typing my complaint…hahaha

Willie Wilmette

bad business practices?
Is saving a couple of bucks & getting pool instead of X an example of good business practice?

Aardvarkprops Props

Not that it’s any of you fucking business, but i work in criminal defense alternative sentencing. This was a client who got picked up on a warrant released from custody in West Covina (where the warrant was issued) at court and had no money for a ride to pick up her purse which was back at the property room in Century Regional Detention Center. We offer this as a courtesy and as a consequence,the clients ALWAYS choose the Carpool version because they are going to be billed for it. The CLIENT wants the cheapest deal…not us. But thanks for being a total idiot and missing the point entirely.

Aardvarkprops Props

Let me guess…low-rated Uber driver? Gee, I wonder why..haha

Willie Wilmette

Wrong, again.
Maybe ignoring Pool pax keeps my ratings above average.

Willie Wilmette

Ha Ha! Wrong again.
Did you mean Unfair business practices?

Aardvarkprops Props

Bad Business Practices are business policies implemented by a company which are unfair to the consumer, made for financial gain that are against public policy. They are unlawfully collected and it is a cause of action in civil litigation which carries punitive damages. You need to educate yourself before you open your mouth.

Cherry Bomb Hotrods

Willie…how much dick do you suck every day? You must have syphilis eating into your brain. California’s Business & Professions Code § 17200 (Unfair Competition) and § 17500 (False Advertising)…are commonly referred to a Bad Business Practices when used in a lawsuit…you fucking moron!

Cherry Bomb Hotrods

Whatever the case…he got a FULL REFUND by making the threat!! UBER…NEVER GIVES FULL REFUNDS!!! NEVER!!! Pretty obvious who did NOT want to get sued over trying to rip off a customer.

Willie Wilmette

I am not a lawyer.
Lawyers suck!
You must be a lawyer or in their office quite a bit.
I am just a slightly better than average rideshare driver, not from CA, who took business law 35 years ago. The terminology may have changed over the years.
The wiki for California Unfair Competition Law does not even once use the word bad.
I sense a bit of anger. There are people that can help you with that.

Cherry Bomb Hotrods

I just realized you are 23…23 in the year 2017 equals…14. I don’t debate with children. Keep driver for Uber and Lyft, like a slave…until your car is worn out, you have no money to repair it or buy a new one..and then “educate” me about life.

Paul Brewster

Wednesday night, no surge, DTLA to Fullerton. 25 miles. No traffic. The rider “agreed” to the “upfront price” of $41.71. Uber paid me $28.87. Minus their fee of $5.77. Profit of $23.10. Uber made $12.84 more off of the pax. Plus my charge of $5.77. Total profit for Uber = $18.61. That’s almost a 65% profit that Uber earned off of that one ride. They are getting paid on both ends.

I wrote Uber, and told them that they should either pay me 20% off less the higher fare, which comes to $33.39 or lower the fare to the true amount and refund the customer $12.84.

Uber told me that the pax agreed to the fare up front, which is why they were charged what they were charged. And that’s all they said.

that’s the same thing they said to me this morning because a rider paid 22.90 I only receive 13.00 or so .

DonLukas

This just happened to me 5 minutes ago. Poway to the airport, passenger said he paid $36 after the ride the total cost on my end was $32, my cut $24 I told the passenger and asked him if there was a change in the price as he was walking away he said there wasn’t.

Chris Heiney

I get charged $6.60 for a ride that costs $4.75. Its literally a MILE! I can’t find out where that HIDDEN extra fee comes from? The drivers told be that they only get their cut of the $4.75. What do I do?

Elvis Salcedo

High time for Uber driver to boycott this malicious business practice.

Mul Shariyf

Hi this happen to me this morning .The rider all of sudden ask me how much am going to get because uber charge her 22.90 .So when the trip was done I only receive 13.30 but this been going on for a while now to. This happen in Boston mass

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I'm Harry, the owner and founder of The Rideshare Guy Blog and Podcast. I used to be a full-time engineer but now I'm a rideshare blogger! I write about my experience driving for Uber, Lyft, and other services and my goal is to help drivers earn more money by working smarter, not harder. Read More…

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