Marriage - Think Atheist2018-02-18T05:13:05Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/marriage?id=1982180%3ATopic%3A1276470&feed=yes&xn_auth=noUltimately, it's up to the vo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12801322013-03-22T17:31:31.724ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>Ultimately, it's up to the voters. Once the legislators have to face the fact that their attitude toward marriage may put them out of a job, they'll change their stance. </p>
<p>Ultimately, it's up to the voters. Once the legislators have to face the fact that their attitude toward marriage may put them out of a job, they'll change their stance. </p> Strawman!
I never said paperw…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12800482013-03-22T16:35:55.558ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>Strawman!</p>
<p>I never said paperwork would keep people together who want to come apart. But let me remind you of two things: the marriage contract is just that: a contract, and it's a contract even when it's not on a piece of paper. </p>
<p>When partners are unmarried, it's as easy as waiting till the other one is gone, packing up one's things, and leaving. </p>
<p>When you're married, you go through something resembling probate. It's not pleasant. Also, the contract gets your lives…</p>
<p>Strawman!</p>
<p>I never said paperwork would keep people together who want to come apart. But let me remind you of two things: the marriage contract is just that: a contract, and it's a contract even when it's not on a piece of paper. </p>
<p>When partners are unmarried, it's as easy as waiting till the other one is gone, packing up one's things, and leaving. </p>
<p>When you're married, you go through something resembling probate. It's not pleasant. Also, the contract gets your lives intertwined in ways that make coming apart difficult and sometimes traumatic. Thus, getting married is more of a commitment and one you can't easily simply walk away from.</p>
<p>I do think that since we remain friends, something making it harder to come apart certainly might have had us working harder at working things out.</p>
<p></p> They can't? If a man wants to…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12800372013-03-22T15:28:39.306ZHank Hellhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/HankHell
<p>They can't? If a man wants to marry another man, or one man wants to marry six women, or one woman wants to marry three men, and this is not allowed to happen then the people in question are being subjected to a concept of marriage that they don't want. They can still have these relationships, but because of the legal aspects of marriage that they can not attain, they have less rights then people who couple in a traditional way. If marriage was not a factor then peoples ability to adopt…</p>
<p>They can't? If a man wants to marry another man, or one man wants to marry six women, or one woman wants to marry three men, and this is not allowed to happen then the people in question are being subjected to a concept of marriage that they don't want. They can still have these relationships, but because of the legal aspects of marriage that they can not attain, they have less rights then people who couple in a traditional way. If marriage was not a factor then peoples ability to adopt children would have to be based exclusively on things like their economic stability and the quality of life they can provide, rather than something as petty as how society measures the value of their love for one another. </p> marriage would protect the ch…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12800362013-03-22T15:01:57.768ZDr.Grixishttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DrGrixis
<blockquote><p><span>marriage would protect the child by providing an added incentive to keep the marriage together.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>If 2 people want to leave each other, no piece of paper will keep them together. And just because statistically speaking married parents do better than single parents does not mean that the marriage paperwork has some magical powers that make people into loving, caring partners and parents. </span></p>
<p><span>It's the loving/caring part that…</span></p>
<blockquote><p><span>marriage would protect the child by providing an added incentive to keep the marriage together.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>If 2 people want to leave each other, no piece of paper will keep them together. And just because statistically speaking married parents do better than single parents does not mean that the marriage paperwork has some magical powers that make people into loving, caring partners and parents. </span></p>
<p><span>It's the loving/caring part that determines the success as partners and parents not the marriage part. </span></p>
<p><span>You seem to confuse cause and effect with the statistical evidence about married and single parents. </span></p>
<blockquote><p><span>I wish we had worked things out.</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p><span>Are you saying that additional paperwork would've been an incentive for you to have put more effort into it? Not the benefit of your daughter, not the love that you have for your wife and daughter, but additional legal obligations would've made a difference? Somehow I don't think that you believe that, so why do you think that this applies to others?</span></p> 5. any concurrence in action;…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12800292013-03-22T14:30:56.570ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p><span>5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.</span></p>
<p><span>You sound like they can foist a concept of marriage on us that we don't want.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span>5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.</span></p>
<p><span>You sound like they can foist a concept of marriage on us that we don't want.</span></p>
<p></p> It might not add anything to…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12801032013-03-22T14:29:19.670ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>It might not add anything to you, but marriage would protect the child by providing an added incentive to keep the marriage together. You can't walk away from your commitment to the child, but if you leave him/her in a single parent situation, more than one study has shown that unless the situation is exceptional (which is something you shouldn't bet on), the child's life will be diminished in a number of ways.</p>
<p>I wish my own marriage had stayed intact. From age 10 until she left for…</p>
<p>It might not add anything to you, but marriage would protect the child by providing an added incentive to keep the marriage together. You can't walk away from your commitment to the child, but if you leave him/her in a single parent situation, more than one study has shown that unless the situation is exceptional (which is something you shouldn't bet on), the child's life will be diminished in a number of ways.</p>
<p>I wish my own marriage had stayed intact. From age 10 until she left for college, my daughter had two bedrooms. One in my home and one in her mothers, and she shuttled back and forth, back and forth. And ours was what they call "an amicable parting." In retrospect, I wish we had worked things out.</p>
<p>She has turned out more than okay, but it's hard not to wonder what might have been.</p> Yeah not really. nothing I sa…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12798862013-03-22T13:50:51.088ZHank Hellhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/HankHell
<p>Yeah not really. nothing I said was even theory. The use of marriage to control social behaviors is overt and a matter of established fact. You seem to be arguing that because legislation is formed by more then one person, it is therefore conspiracy, and that ideas regarding your definition of conspiracy are all invalid. You called the idea that marriage is a tool used to prepetuate established social norms "Horseshit", when in fact it is totally acurate and neither law makers who dominate…</p>
<p>Yeah not really. nothing I said was even theory. The use of marriage to control social behaviors is overt and a matter of established fact. You seem to be arguing that because legislation is formed by more then one person, it is therefore conspiracy, and that ideas regarding your definition of conspiracy are all invalid. You called the idea that marriage is a tool used to prepetuate established social norms "Horseshit", when in fact it is totally acurate and neither law makers who dominate marriage in a legal sense, nor religious authoritys who attempt to dominate it in a social sense would suggest otherwise. Richard Nixon engaged in a conspiracy, was it horseshit? Because more then one person was involved that means it never happened? You can get as angry as you want at the idea I expressed but you seem to have nothing to offer of your own. Even if you think that marriage is a good tool to effect personal behavior, and does good for both the individual and society, it in no way invalidates my claim that marriage is a set of standards used by society to influence certain desired reactions.</p> Thanks!
I too could tell you…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12798832013-03-22T12:55:51.874ZDr.Grixishttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DrGrixis
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I too could tell you stories about (the equivalent) of the suburbs here and the disgusting things that occur behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Marriage is something that any idiot can do, building and maintaining a fruitful and loving relationship is something that takes more than just some words on a piece of paper.</p>
<p>Thanks!</p>
<p>I too could tell you stories about (the equivalent) of the suburbs here and the disgusting things that occur behind closed doors.</p>
<p>Marriage is something that any idiot can do, building and maintaining a fruitful and loving relationship is something that takes more than just some words on a piece of paper.</p> I don't remember anybody maki…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12798822013-03-22T12:12:59.698ZkOrsanhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/kayaorsan
<blockquote><p>I don't remember anybody making the point that being single is better than being in a relationship</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To clarify, by "single" I meant "single parent."</p>
<p>There are plenty people who prefer to be single, me included.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don't remember anybody making the point that being single is better than being in a relationship</p>
</blockquote>
<p>To clarify, by "single" I meant "single parent."</p>
<p>There are plenty people who prefer to be single, me included.</p> @ kOrsan,
I think that the te…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-22:1982180:Comment:12799852013-03-22T12:09:37.593ZDr.Grixishttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DrGrixis
<p>@ kOrsan,</p>
<p>I think that the term "marriage" is the main culprit of the whole confusion. You can have all the legal obligations to your partner without being married (at least in my country) and the same applies to the care for children. </p>
<p>The added value of marriage is therefor precisely "zilch". </p>
<p>Apparently (??) in some countries you can't disconnect commitment from marriage, that's why people in those countries get married young and divorce often. I was highly surprised…</p>
<p>@ kOrsan,</p>
<p>I think that the term "marriage" is the main culprit of the whole confusion. You can have all the legal obligations to your partner without being married (at least in my country) and the same applies to the care for children. </p>
<p>The added value of marriage is therefor precisely "zilch". </p>
<p>Apparently (??) in some countries you can't disconnect commitment from marriage, that's why people in those countries get married young and divorce often. I was highly surprised the first time I went to the states and found out that most of the people of my age that were in a relationship were already married, even after being together only shortly people married one another as if it was obligatory, very odd.</p>
<p>It reminds me a bit of the people of my grandparents' generation, they also married young as to them it was an auto-include. You find a guy/girl, you stick with them and you marry first and then get kids. I'm not saying that this is not what people should do, please by all means if you're comfortable do so. </p>
<p>But, for those (like me) who do not roll that way, marriage is completely unnecessary and the baggage that it comes with is not appealing to us. This does not mean that we're afraid of commitment (legal or not) or that we don't want the best for our children, it's just that we don't see the concept of marriage (NOT (LEGAL) COMMITMENT!!) as useful.</p>