But it has been touted on the same forum that spilled the move to Paiste, a couple of weeks before the fact.
He was apparently sighted at the Ludwig after party at NAMM (just checking out the new stands according to our illustrious moderator!?!?!?)
And the coy involvement of both Bermuda and Pat Petrillo (both Ludwig artists) on another 'Vinnie to Ludwig' related thread didn't go unnoticed either.

But it has been touted on the same forum that spilled the move to Paiste, a couple of weeks before the fact.
He was apparently sighted at the Ludwig after party at NAMM (just checking out the new stands according to our illustrious moderator!?!?!?)
And the coy involvement of both Bermuda and Pat Petrillo (both Ludwig artists) on another 'Vinnie to Ludwig' related thread didn't go unnoticed either.

Aaaah... well, this is interesting... Paiste and Ludwig ARE the ultimate combination after all :D

But would you if the free ones weren't your favorite cymbals in terms of sound?

I dunno, it's possible to like both Zildjian and Sabian equally, but they make different sounding cymbals so it doesn't seem likely that Weckl, Peart, et al all liked Sabian as much as Zildjian, or better. And if they did, why didn't they move before any dust ups? They were, by various accounts, following "their guy" and not happy with who was left standing at Zildjian - but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the actual cymbals, which were presumably their favorites up to that point.

For the record, I think Sabian has a waaaaay better business model and spirit of innovation than Zildjian, but for whatever reason, I still like the way the Zildjian bronze feels under my stick and the sound character that hits my ears better than Sabian.

I can't imagine that anyone at Zildjian could piss me off enough to not play them anymore. Or, maybe I can imagine it, but I'm glad that isn't happening because I don't know anyone who works there and I like my Zildjians.

And lastly, I'd play Meinl before Sabian. Hell, I might even take them over Zildjian if I get up enough dough!

Now that I think about it, maybe that's all Vinnie was thinking when the 602s came out... that he just liked them better than any of his Zildjians. Pretty weird that once you get to his level that you can't just go play anything you want without it becoming this huge "thing" (forum fodder, mfr website scrambles, etc).

But would you if the free ones weren't your favorite cymbals in terms of sound?

If they were crap, no.
Among the big 3, over the past 10-20 years, we've seen each brand attempt to make something that cashes in on a successful line of another brand. The differences exist, but it's getting smaller compared to where it used to be. (notice JR Robinson switched to Paiste, but plays their Twenty line, which were developed to sound like Zildjians...haha)

And, over time, what sound pleases my ear has changed as well.

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They were, by various accounts, following "their guy" and not happy with who was left standing at Zildjian - but it didn't seem to have anything to do with the actual cymbals, which were presumably their favorites up to that point.

I see your point, and agree to a large extent.

But Lenny wasn't just a guy who worked there, he was the guy who hand picks cymbals, and helped develop the sounds the companies put out. So, to an extent, following him does have to do with the cymbals, because of his behind the scenes work into getting the cymbals made. Notice Peart doesn't play standard Sabians either, and numerous things have been custom made for Weckl as well.

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For the record, I think Sabian has a waaaaay better business model and spirit of innovation than Zildjian,

And for the guys who make their living in the music BUSINESS that can be considered an important factor to some.

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I can't imagine that anyone at Zildjian could piss me off enough to not play them anymore. Or, maybe I can imagine it, but I'm glad that isn't happening because I don't even know a single Zildjian employee

.
I know people at both. Not as many I used to though.

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Now that I think about it, maybe that's all Vinnie was thinking when the 602s came out... that he just liked them better than his A Customs..

If you sit back and think about it for a minute, what did Vinny say when he was developing the A-custom line? He wanted some thing thin, that speaks quickly, vintage sounding, but brighter than K.... which essentially describes the 602 line as well.
Does kind of make one go "hummm......"

Back when I was much younger, I was a devoted Zildjian guy, but I played a (then discontinued) 602 Ride at school, and it was an amazing cymbal. So get how someone who really loves Zildjian could fall in love with the 602 sound.

But Lenny wasn't just a guy who worked there, he was the guy who hand picks cymbals, and helped develop the sounds the companies put out. So, to an extent, following him does have to do with the cymbals, because of his behind the scenes work into getting the cymbals made. Notice Peart doesn't play standard Sabians either, and numerous things have been custom made for Weckl as well.

Yeah, that's an important consideration for sure. That would a valuable service to anyone.

But what Lenny doesn't have control over is the recipe. All cymbals from Sabian start life the same way: the ingredients are added, cooked up, poured, and rolled into until they look like a pizza. Zildjian has a similar process for getting to their pizzas, but the recipe for it is different. That's why you can hear the difference between Zildjian and Sabian regardless of whether their AA, Paragon, HHX, K Custom, A Series, etc...

Anyway, it's Zildjian's recipe for getting to the plain 'ole undefined pizza stage that I like better, and that alone would make me not want to switch.

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Originally Posted by DrumEatDrum

If you sit back and think about it for a minute, what did Vinny say when he was developing the A-custom line? He wanted some thing thin, that speaks quickly, vintage sounding, but brighter than K.... which essentially describes the 602 line as well.
Does kind of make one go "hummm......"

Interesting in that he will no longer have the one thing most endorsers want:

Tour support!

But he has an army of crew to lug all his stuff around so you'd think it wouldn't be a big deal to bring some extra sticks, heads, and cymbals along. He probably has a kit in storage over in Europe and when he tours Asia, it wouldn't be hard to rent whatever he needed. I mean, he does play the most common kit configuration on the planet, it couldn't be that hard to have something to play on every night, right? Maybe I'm missing something, but for a guy like him that probably doesn't break much, how much tour support does he really need?

Interesting in that he will no longer have the one thing most endorsers want:

Tour support!

But I suppose he has enough drum kits all now it's not a major concern.

So, now, where those 602s in the video, or where they A Customs with the logos removed?

I wondered exactly the same thing.....and came to pretty much the same conclusion. I reckon he'd have stashed a number of kits away over the years. Poor drum tech might have to do a little more leg work to get them. But then again, I imagine being Vinnie's drum tech would be much like being Tiger Woods' caddy.....he's probably making more money than most of us anyway......what's another storage facility on his already vast travel schedule? :-)

Still don't think they're AC's. I'll roll with the Cymbalholic boffins.....some of those guys have amazing eyes for detail. If they're calling 602's, it'd be a brave man that bets against them.

He has an army of crew to lug all his stuff around so you'd think it wouldn't be a big deal to bring some extra sticks, heads, and cymbals along. He probably has a kit in storage over in Europe and when he tours Asia, it wouldn't be hard to rent whatever he needed. I mean, he does play the most common kit configuration on the planet, it couldn't be that hard to have something to play on every night, right?

True.

But when you play with guys like Sting, you're bound to do a lot of one-off shows, and jumping around in ways where carrying your own kit with out isn't always practical. Top guys generally like having an company handle that all for them.

But given the big name brands often go through cartage companies to supply endorsers with kits for special event, and Vinny already uses the same cartage companies for his session work, it's probably not much sweat off his back at this point. And as you said, his set up is pretty common.

It's funny. People wondering "will he still sound like Vinnie" playing other gear. The reality is we almost surely already know the answer. Guys endorse a brand but still use other stuff when they record. Anybody wondering what Vinnie sounds like playing Ludwig has probably already heard it!

Good for him.
Guys endorse a brand but still use other stuff when they record. Anybody wondering what Vinnie sounds like playing Ludwig has probably already heard it!

Very true! We've supplied stuff "under the radar". Actually, it's more simple than that. What a player chooses to buy with their own money is no business of the company whom they endorse. The deal is based around brand exposure, credits, etc, so as long as those elements aren't disturbed, there's no issue. I even know a guy who makes a good living out of supplying very special percussion instruments (mainly snares) to endorsed artists for studio work.

I can't believe what a big deal it is. It's devastating for Zildjian but, why would anyone else really care?
He'll still sound like himself. Like others have said, he could he using anything on record and he'll have a sound he goes for and he could pick any of the top brands and and replicate his sound fairly closely. Not to mention miking and EQing etc.

It would be interesting if someone could upload some comparisons of kits, try catching us out.

I can't believe what a big deal it is. It's devastating for Zildjian but, why would anyone else really care?

I'm not sure anyone does.....really. It's more just an interesting point of discussion that drum nerds can gather round and speculate to our nerdy heart's content.

Sure as hell beats yet another thread on who makes the fastest 5B sticks. Or what the best velcro for the underside of a base pettle is. Or whether burying a ZBT will really turn it into a K Custom. Or whether one should teach now that they've just completed their third week of lessons. Or even The Beatles vs Korn (yes, that one really exists!!!).

I'm not sure anyone does.....really. It's more just an interesting point of discussion that drum nerds can gather round and speculate to our nerdy heart's content.

Sure as hell beats yet another thread on who makes the fastest 5B sticks. Or what the best velcro for the underside of a base pettle is. Or whether burying a ZBT will really turn it into a K Custom. Or whether one should teach now that they've just completed their third week of lessons. Or even The Beatles vs Korn (yes, that one really exists!!!).

Nup....gimme Vinnie and his 602's (or not), anyday of the week.

Wow! I thought the 5B one was bad til you said Beatlea vs Korn! That'a a whole new kind of cronic!

Must be so damaging to a company to lose a drummr who is always in the top 10 usually number 1 best drummer in the rhythm polls.

I haven't seej the vid, does he have a bad temper? he seems so nice in interviews.

I can't believe what a big deal it is. It's devastating for Zildjian but, why would anyone else really care?
He'll still sound like himself. Like others have said, he could he using anything on record and he'll have a sound he goes for and he could pick any of the top brands and and replicate his sound fairly closely. Not to mention miking and EQing etc.

It would be interesting if someone could upload some comparisons of kits, try catching us out.

Because it's part of the music business, and some of us are interested in the business side as well as the music side.

Hey, it's one thing to jump ship to company X, but to go from b20 to b8 ... do you think he'd get that carried away? Hmmm. It'll be interesting to see. He does like him some bright cymbals now and then.

Vinnie will always sound like Vinnie, but it can still be a different sound. I much preferred his Yamaha 9000 sound to anything I heard when he was with Gretsch, although the drum head choices will have a part to play amongst other things. Similarly, with the Sting video, albeit the sound quality is not amazing, I don't really like the cymbal tone as much as his Zildjians.

I remember hearing Weckl when he did the reunion album with Chick Corea Elektric Band. I thought his Sabian hi-hats sounded awful on that album. Much preferred the K/Zs he used for years.