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From: boboroshi@satanservice.org (SOD of CoE)
Newsgroups: alt.magick.tyagi,alt.magick,alt.satanism,alt.pagan.magick
Subject: Satanism and Magic, Black/White (was Serious Question)
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5000208 IVom Hail Satan!
"See Signature" :
> Is there a difference between White and Black Magic,
> or do they both serve the same purpose?
FAQ: what is the difference between white and black
magic and how are they used?
A: the principles of magic are roughly the same
throughout the cultures of the world, though
the aims, techniques and symbolic elements will
vary from culture to culture.
when differentiations such as 'black' and
'white' are made between magics, the typical
association is that 'black' is the forbidden,
socially reprehensible, or is nefarious in
its aims, design or components. depending on
the culture these aims and so on will vary,
but that which trespasses taboo will usually
be castigated as 'black magic' and avoided
by all except those who practice it and those
who contract to have it done for them. the
'white' is usually societally-approved,
supportive, integrative, usually acquisitive
or mystical in focus.
with the development of Satanism the terms
of arcane reference have as usual been
arranged so as to flaunt the demonized in
the protagonist position, and 'Black Magick'
(this spelling of 'magic' popularized by
Aleister Crowley by whom most modern
Satanist occultists have been influenced)
has been lauded as a worthy pursuit.
within modern Satanism 'Black Magick' has
been described as having a 'Greater' and
'Lesser' variety, the former having
mystical aims (Crowley's 'White Magick')
and the latter having materialistic aims
(in modern Satanism even simple deception
and manipulation are described as 'Magick'
of this 'Lesser' category).
----------------------------------------------------------------
this has been added to "Nagasiva's alt.magick FAQ", located at:
http://www.luckymojo.com/namfaq.html
rmerciless@aol.commit2hell (RMerciless):
> The current popular usage of the terms "white", "black" and even
> "grey" magic are primarily advanced by Wiccans as a means of
> differntiating between their form of "white" good-guy, harm-none
> magic and magic which is directed to harm enemies or compel
> action (like the lust ritual). These they term "black."
while it is true that Wiccans and many other occultists tend to
perpetuate this dichotomy, they did not originate it, nor do
all Wiccans or other occultists eshew what you are here calling
'black magic' or magic for the benefit of themselves or the
detriment of their enemies.
> Its my opinion that these are false distinctions and that
> holding to these boundaries in the head of the magickian only
> creates a mental barrier to success.
the Wiccan and other occultists merely have a sense of justice,
morals, and respect for their fellow mage which follows a
particular predictable value set. if you have none, then this is
evidence of your lack of reliability and loyalty. I note that
you speak of 'harming enemies', which is conventional in the
magical community where harm of all types is not condemned.
start talking about torture and maiming and you'll find that
the lines are quickly drawn against these even by Satanists
(the Satanic 'Black Magic').
> All magick is self-serving on some level. Unless some wiccan
> is doing a ritual to "save the earth" or some worthless act
> like that.
magic designed to help another is not directly self-serving.
you have not specified why one type of magical spell is
"worthless" and why another is "valuable" except that it is
done by your perceived competitor. I think that it is a
Satanic act to work magic for the benefit of other species.
> So in the Satanist construct, there is LBM and GBM
> and anything that one might term "white magic" is a waste of time.
that's only because the terminology has been inverted so as
to preserve the martyrdom confusion. "Greater Black Magick (GBM)"
so called, is not any different than Crowley's 'White Magick',
and from what I have understood many Setians and Satanists
engage what would be called 'white magic' by conventional
occult standards.
Mekharath-@webtv.net (Destroying=A0Angel):
> The difference between white and black magic is nothing. Both
> use ritual and various props.
yes, but typically the magical act described as either 'black' or
'white' conforms to certain aims or intents. modern Satanism is
reactionary in its attempt to hijack the terms for its purposes
and play 'Hot Shot' with "dangerous energy". maybe the 'Good Guy'
badge is not for you, but the 'Bad Guy' (anti-hero) character is
beloved in the modern Satanist community (and with good reason).
> It is the ritual and props that the magi[c]-user places their
> trust and belief in.
this varies tremendously. many mages consider the props and rite
to be secondary or worthless without concentrated direction of
will and an ability to focus one's attention upon a change in
the configuration of the cosmos (typically using symbols, some
kind of association and/or contageon as a triggering or
linking mechanism; cf. Crowley's description of the 'Magical
Link' in "Book Four" for a thorough analysis).
> They can see that they are performing the rituals correctly
> and that they are using the correct props so they can see
> that all is going accordng to prescribed ways.
too often what is thought of as a recipe-oriented skill is
misunderstood and the genius necessary for good spell-casting
is overlooked. one school has it that you can have the best
magical tools and all your ps and qs in place, but without
some kind of discipline and natural or learned skill, your
rites will amount to nothing. another contends that it is
the herbs, the tools, the incense which makes the effect. it
is not my place to distinguish here which of these competing
paradigms is accurate, but we must ask who is doing all the
"prescribing" and "describing of what is correct" in the
Herd the individual above is running.
> Prayer, on the other hand, uses no ritual and no props and
> hus has no physical anything to set a paying person's mind
> at ease as to the correct performance of the prayer.
this is demonstrably false. the Roman Catholic rosary is just
such a prop for prayer, as are pews, rudraksha beads, salat
mats, statues, incense, etc., etc..
> Most Christians do not get their prayers answered because
> it is a fundimental need of Humans to place their faith in what
> they can see and feel (such as ritualistic props). Prayer does not
> require, nor does it need, such rituaistic props to work.
this is merely anti-Christian assertion without an apparent
comprehension of Christian religion or faith. it is understandable
that many modern Satanists are from Christian backgrounds. like
the Black Mass as described by these Satanists, becoming a
Satanist and entering into the often anti-Christian subculture
which strict and fundamentalist Christianity has strongly
inspired as a reaction is a kind of cathartic emotional
experience played out in opposition to parental influences.
once long-term Satanists get some experience behind them they
tend to settle down to less anti-Christian pursuits (if they
don't wind up fanatics and/or sociopaths), expanding their
Satanic path so as to include a broader base of ideals and
behaviors than baiting and engaging the same demonization
which their ancestors made a popular pastime.
JamesPike@webtv.net (James Pike):
> ...their is no difference in white and black magic....
> ...there is little difference in how Satanic ritual magic
> and prayer produce change in the world. Satanist do not use faith in
> anything for ritual magic. Satanists only use the props for fantasy
> tools in an attempt to take the mind away from the realities of the
> world and get in touch with our emotions.
this materialistic Satanism is apparently quite common. its atheism
and rationalistic slant appeals to the more skeptical and
intelligent in the modern Satanist culture. though too often it
perpetuates a kind of dogma all its own, resting as it does on the
bosom of modern science and limited, popular conception of this
behemoth.
it is from cosmologies such as these that the notion that Satan
does not exist arose. psychologizing ritual as an emotive and
cathartic drama to express pent-up angst, the imaginative occultist
projects that this emotion has itself some sort of materialistic
effect in the world. what basis these Satanists have for these
claims (and why they can't be used to support all manner of
other "fantasies") is difficult to assess. we must assume that
they are merely unused to the details of complex philosophic
and logical analysis that they would make such ridiculous claims
without providing some sort of backing.
> The magic and changes in the world we produce are due to
> the emotional energy that is released, not due to gods,
> devils, or props.
like Mesmerism or a variety of other mystical descriptions,
"emotional energy" is here substituted for some other far-
fetched metaphysical model, without any substantiation to
support the claim.
> Prayer can be effective form of greater
> magic if the emotional release occurs and the timing and balance factor
> are right. Prayers are not answered by gods. Gods are for the
> superstitious who refuse to let the world progress. Satanic ritual
> magic is set up in a way that when properly done it is always effective,
> but prayer is like a toss of the dice.
despite the dogmatic presentation, this line of analysis comes from
the vagueries of Aleister Crowley, who, quite insightfully, described
magical acts as proceeding from 'properly constructed' symbolic rites
which could be as conventional as writing a letter or driving a
streetcar. accepting the broadest possible meaning for 'magical act'
(any which is volitional), he used this confounding metaphysic to
draw attention and bolster his claims to power and exalted status.
examining his life, however, one is hard-pressed to find that he
succeeded in more than notoriety and a bit of publishing. his
understanding of magic (such as it was) seems to have had a limited
effect upon his means or achievements.
part of the problem with claims like those above is that the
'effectiveness' is a part of the analysis of their 'magical
expertise'. after the fact if the results were not forthcoming
then the fault must reside with the mage rather than with the
mechanism or the metaphysic. the presumed tool cannot be doubted.
this is truly a form of faith or deception on the part of the
writer. only their comprehension of the actuality discerns which.
> People praying do not consider
> the balance factor, direction, and how to attain the release of
> emotional energy; and put their faith in gods. Some times the things
> line up on their own and it looks as though a prayer was answered.
> Little did the praying person know that Satanists understand how to
> produce the same results all the time.
this idea of the Balance Factor appears, in LaVey's writings
at least ("Satanic Bible", Avon, 1969, pp. 127-8), to be at
ODDS with the claim that the magic works every time.
essentially the Balance Factor is a principle of assessment
such that that which is beyond one's means ought not be
attempted (failure should be avoided). 'know your limits'
describes the exact OPPOSITE of the Perfect Tool.
likely the reason that such contentions as infallibility
have entered into Satanic occultism is in contrast to the
perceived Christian competition. disappointed by fallen
dreams of a Creator god, the children of fundamentalists
have recreated the fallacious fantasy of their parents
but in a New-Improved-Always-Works-We-Aren't-Going-To-Be-
Disappointed-This-Time-No-No-No Model, styled to goad their
parents to raving in distress. yuck yuck.
blessed beast!
boboroshi, SOD of the CoE
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