Anyone at 4.0+ without high school or college experience?

It seems like the the majority of young posters are playing high school tennis and that a lot of the elderly posters played college tennis a number of years back. Is there anyone that made it to the 4.0+ levels without either high school or college tennis background? If so, describe your progression through the levels and how much did you have to practice, since you were probably not part of organized tennis with daily practice sessions?

I'm 4.5 (just appealed from 5.0, hooray) and I did not play HS tennis or college tennis. I did play some tennis in HS, but we didn't really have a team at my school, because I was overseas. Anyway, right after college I was living in D.C. and my girlfirend was on the west coast, so I played tennis 5 times a week and got pretty good in three years and started playing leagues, etc. My mental game was still pretty weak. Then I went to law school when I was about 27 and pretty much quit tennis for three years. When I started playing again in my 30's my mental game improved a lot (studying for the bar helped) and I took some lessons to improve my forehand. I've been playing at the 4.5/5.0 level on and off and I'm now 44 years old.

Anyway, I played "at" tennis a little as a kid, but never had any formal lessons. I'd say I never got past the 2.5 level. This was back in the wooden racquet days. (Really!)

At 40 I took up the sport seriously. The first thing I did was join a club and take a series of "Intro to Tennis" group lessons for beginners. I've stayed a member of that club ever since. I've taken lots and lots of group lessons, drills, some private lessons, and spent (in total) a month at Newk's and several other weeks at several other tennis resorts and camps.

I've always played in Singles and Doubles leagues at the club. After several years I joined the USTA. I was originally rated a 3.5, got my butt kicked badly for 2 years and was bumped down to 3.0. I started a 3.0 USTA team with a bunch of other guys that gut bumped from 3.5 to 3.0 and we went to sectionals. We took 2nd and most of us got bumped back to 3.5.

Since then I've been playing 3.5 USTA leagues and tournaments, with varying degrees of success. I think I was ranked in the top 20 (at 3.5) in our section (which sounds nice, but really isn't that big of a deal) several times.

A couple of weeks ago, near the end of my 51st year, I got bumped up to 4.0. That's my tennis life in a nutshell.

never played tennis before but then picked it up while attending college. started playing seriously after college and tried a few open comps with so so results. found some good practice partners and improved. entered more open comps and did better. occasionally practiced and hit with the college players for a while. found another good practice partner and moved up to about a 4.5 or so. stopped playing for a good many years and now starting back.

One guy I play with started tennis at age 39. He has been just bumped to 4.5 computer NTRP rating after 3 years of play. He is athletic and plays 6 days a week and is a real student of the game. He has beaten tennis teaching pros his same age in age group 40 tournaments.

Well, the story which I'm about to tell is not about me. It is about one of my tennis friend. He picked up a tennis racket for the first time when he was 18. He was raised in a pious family so he didn't have to go to regular school and all he did was play tennis and go to mosque. He once told me he would hit against a wall for hours. He recorded every singles tennis matches on tennis channels and watch them and re-watch them over and over again. He was basically in love with tennis. Now he is 25 and rated(computer) at 4.0, however he has beaten every single 4.0's he played with ease. Without a doubt I would rate him weak 5.0 or super strong 4.5. I also think that if he had started playing tennis at earlier age and taken professional lessons, he would have been at much higher level than where he is.

BTW I am not sure playing high school tennis confers any degree of competence. I have played multiple current and former high school players. For the most part the average level of play from what I have seen for high school is is pretty low. Most 4.0-4.5 club players would beat most average high school players easily.

I think it's difficult to make a generalization like that Goober. It would really depend on where you went to high school. I would think that playing on a high school team in a large metropolitan area would naturally require competence, given the competition readily available. This especially given that most high school varsity teams consist of just 6 players of each gender (at least when I played high school ball).

There's a great player in my area that's rated at 4.0 (USTA computer rating) that didn't start until he was in his mid-twenties. Excellent mobility, not-so-pretty strokes, but amazing consistency and shot placement.

I ended up playing him in the semi's of a recent tournament and got pasted. He made two unforced errors the entire match - when they're that few, you can count them easily.

I played played a lot growing up in Florida - academy ladders, high school team, USTA tournaments, and team tennis. Now in my late twenties, I'm only competitive up into th 3.5 ranks. I've got "pretty" strokes, but they require a ton of footwork to pull off. It almost feels like a liability now - I can play with the 4.0's on our USTA teams, but once the rally gets long my feet simply give out and it's over. Point after point like that.

I'd actually love to have the simple strokes most of the guys who started as adults have.

I'm 44 and never played or gave tennis a second thought . In high school and for 10 years after i was into racquet ball and went to "b" level . It's been 1 year and 2 months now for tennis, no clubs no formal lessons . I've got a buddy who could have gone pro that turned into my trainer running drills ,mental game ,gear. At my local courts i've met many people and play / hit , sometimes 3 times aday . I call my local courts the " pond" and i'm the new little fish in a pond full of big fish who have been playing tennis 20 years + . They have a hard time believing i'm only 1 year playing and as a result they ask me to play singles and doubles , weekly , sometimes i get handed my ass and other times i do the ass handing. They all say i play at 4.0-4.5 level , or college level . In my driveway i build a backboard to hit against and i jump rope at home . gear wise i started with a wilson ncode N6 and have moved to a head flexpoint fire and wilson ncode Ntour's . One of the guys i play is a sales rep. for wilson and he has given me 3 wilson ncode Ntours(brand new) pretty cool . He says that way nothing gear wise will hold me back. Above all i've learned that foot work will make you or break you and i have zero ego. I hit hard and play even harder, on the court(s) it's war !! and also loosing is a large part of winning plus playing tennis is fun. There you have it in a nut shell

BTW I am not sure playing high school tennis confers any degree of competence. I have played multiple current and former high school players. For the most part the average level of play from what I have seen for high school is is pretty low. Most 4.0-4.5 club players would beat most average high school players easily.

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Well given that a high school player has the opportunity to receive coaching for almost no fee, and the opportunity to practice 5 days a week for 3 months out of the year, I'd say they have a bit of an advantage over someone who starts out of high school.

I am a 4.5 player and never played tennis until I was 27. I never had anyone I knew that played or that was interested in playing. I took a few basic tennis courses at the local community college. I enjoyed playing and have been a "student of the game" as it were since then. I do wish I had learned a lot sooner than I did. I would have liked to have played in HS and maybe gone on to play college tennis. When I was in HS there were a few guys on the team and it was nobody I actually was friends with or actually knew.

Some HS players don't get any "coaching" from the coach. Any instruction they get is solely up to them to arrange for privately. The coach just determines who the best players are and creates the line-up.

There's certainly an advantage to learning young though. The younger the better (within reason).

Some HS players don't get any "coaching" from the coach. Any instruction they get is solely up to them to arrange for privately. The coach just determines who the best players are and creates the line-up.

There's certainly an advantage to learning young though. The younger the better (within reason).

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What kind of joke of a coach is there only to create the line-up? That definitely is not the case with other high school sports.

Well, I played high school tennis and am a weak 4.0, but I don't think I got there because of my hs experience. My coach was a glorified baby sitter. He didn't really care about the team - all he did in practice was divide up the players on each court to play practice matches while he hit with the #1 singles boy. Coach was a good player in his own right (probably a solid 4.5), but he lacked the desire to help others become better. Eventually he became the art teacher after the principal got too many complaints about his "coaching" style.

I think it's difficult to make a generalization like that Goober. It would really depend on where you went to high school. I would think that playing on a high school team in a large metropolitan area would naturally require competence, given the competition readily available. This especially given that most high school varsity teams consist of just 6 players of each gender (at least when I played high school ball).

Regards,

Hoss.

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I agree that it depends on the school that is why I said average high schooler. I went to a high school with a very high level of play. Most of the kids grew up playing tennis and many went onto college to play. I just assumed that was the level of play in high school, but now that I have been playing as an adult against many high school players current and former, I would say my high school was unusual. I would say that the percentage of high school players nationally that play at the 4.5-5.0 level is probably pretty small.

i played at the high level in a forgein country. so when i relocated to the US, and got involved with local clubs here, i tried to play with ppl at my skill level. there more than willing (i find) to play with you frequently. And based on their rating, and advise from coaches and experienced tournament players, i started at 4.0 level then moved up. This is my 1st yr with a rating now.
even though someone is rated 4.5 or 5.0, even within that group, there is still a range within that group from a really good 5.0 to a 5.0 that just got "bumped up". so sample various leagues and look for a skill pattern that seems to fit you. i'd suggest going one rate lower to get your feet wet and get some tittles under your belt.
i try to practise 2-3 times was week @ 2hrs + long sessions. its important to
practise with ppl at or just above ur skill level. thats really the only way your game is gonna improve.

My older brother was #2 on a HS Team which made it to State ... with no real "Coach". The school had just started and none of the Coaches wanted to take the Tennis Team. The boys convinced a History Teacher, who knew *nothing* about tennis to be the Team's "Sponsor". The #1 and my brother ran the Team.

(Three years later I was #5 on that school team -- with the Basketball Coach in the "role" -- and we WON State. That "Coach" was one in title, only. We
still ran our own drills, etc.)

I've coached HS Teams the last several years. When I was the Head Tennis Coach, I'd inform the parents and the boys I wasn't a babysitter ... nor was I functioning as a Tennis Instructor. If your boy knows how to play, great. If he doesn't, he probably won't make the team. (As a Coach, I work more on drilling, strategy and tactics. Not nearly so much on "How to" or mechanics....)

I didn't play HS or college tennis. I played a lot with friends as a teenager and in my early 20's I started to get a little more serious, went to a tennis camp, and was playing 4.0. Then I took off 5+ years because of work/travel. When I started playing again I had the time to take lessons/clinics, read books and articles on TennisOne.com, do way to much research on rackets on these boards, etc. I also bought a ball machine and spent a lot of time practicing by myself. The end result is that I am playing better now than I ever have (just got bumped to 5.0) and I can hold my own with most of the former college players I play with. There is only one other 5.0 in the area that I know of who did not play college tennis and/or high level junior tennis, and he is an outstanding athlete who played college basketball. I'm a decent athlete myself, but I think my success at tennis is due mostly to my approach to getting better. I absorb as much information as possible, distill it down and relate it to my own game, and then practice practice practice. Then I work on incorporating the changes/improvements into match play, and if that means losing a match I would normally win that's fine with me. Another thing I like to do is play a wide variety of players especially in doubles. As a 4.5/5.0 I can often be found playing doubles with 3.0/3.5's on a Tuesday night at my club. These are opportunities for me to have fun and to work on specialty shots in a completely relaxed environment. It also helps with concentration and improvisation because there are a lot of unsual shots/situations that you encounter, and this in turn helps when you go back to playing with 4.5/5.0 players. You also have to play guys that are better than you on a regular basis so you can see where you need work and you become accustomed to the pace/spin at higher levels. And finally you have to play guys who are the same level as you so that you work on your mental game and execution because that's usually the difference in equally matched opponents.

I'm 44 and never played or gave tennis a second thought . In high school and for 10 years after i was into racquet ball and went to "b" level . It's been 1 year and 2 months now for tennis, no clubs no formal lessons . I've got a buddy who could have gone pro that turned into my trainer running drills ,mental game ,gear. At my local courts i've met many people and play / hit , sometimes 3 times aday . I call my local courts the " pond" and i'm the new little fish in a pond full of big fish who have been playing tennis 20 years + . They have a hard time believing i'm only 1 year playing and as a result they ask me to play singles and doubles , weekly , sometimes i get handed my ass and other times i do the ass handing. They all say i play at 4.0-4.5 level , or college level . In my driveway i build a backboard to hit against and i jump rope at home . gear wise i started with a wilson ncode N6 and have moved to a head flexpoint fire and wilson ncode Ntour's . One of the guys i play is a sales rep. for wilson and he has given me 3 wilson ncode Ntours(brand new) pretty cool . He says that way nothing gear wise will hold me back. Above all i've learned that foot work will make you or break you and i have zero ego. I hit hard and play even harder, on the court(s) it's war !! and also loosing is a large part of winning plus playing tennis is fun. There you have it in a nut shell

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I am only 16 but i figure i can reply to this thread, i am about 4.5 maybe more, i dont know, (we dont have it here in aus). I have never been coached and i have only been playing seriously for a couple of years and i just improve because i love playing. I am always trying to find someone to hit with. Our school never had any type of competition like that. But in our league i play number 2 with the adults.

I started when i was 23, except for a few hack sessions here/there through the years. I got completely addicted and couldn't get enough. It was wall ball, serving practice and buggin my friends who played HS ball to beat up on me. 2nd year i tried out as a walk on for Cal Poly (D1) and although i beat a couple other walk ons, i wasn't quite ready yet. Got a few lessons in trade for hitting during lessons with a junior. Played a couple tourneys at a low level and competed on the SLO county ladder, got to #9 (out of 130) beating Hans Riethoffer at Avila bay tennis club while hung over. Topspin lob winner for the match. Got to 4.0 in 2 years.

Graduated, got a job, moved and joined my first club (thousand oaks racket club, TORC). Played every night after work and on the weekends for a year. Couple tourneys hear and there. Played in 4.5 league.

Moved to tahoe. Played constantly during non-snow months and 1/wk during winter indoor at Reno Hilton. Won the A's at Northstar open 3 yrs in a row and won Incline open. 4.5/5.0 six years later.

Got laid off and got new job (Carter Burgess) in Sacramento. Joined Rio del Oro which had 25 or so courts and at least a dozen 5.0's and a couple higher. Played every nite after work. Great club and gained lots of experience. 5.0

Got recruited by an engineering company and moved back to hometown, Santa Barbara. Started playing local tourneys at open level and practicing with open players. Made a couple finals, shoulda won one > lost 6-4 in third, and a couple semis. Spent a week at Saddlebrook and asked Randy Brooke my ntrp. He said, "big serve, drive out in front off both sides, probably 5.5".

Probably not 5.5 as i don't have a consistent training regimen and with work/family etc. only get to hit 2-3 times a week. So i'm going with 5.0. Play with these three guys on the ATP computer:

Although i still want to improve, my focus is shifting to my 11 yo (since Dec 7)boy. He rediculously talented, goes to Weil academy Tues-Thurs, works with Landsdorp on Fridays, and is moving up the 12's ranks. I'll be lucky to stop him from beating me in a match (2/3 sets) before he's 15, or (shudder) 14. He says 13 and he fully intends to have a pro career. I'm incredibly excited about helping towards his goal and sharing in the journey.

I played football, baseball, and wrestled in HS. After HS was over a few friends and I worked at a sporting goods store and every day after work we would go to some courts where the lights stayed on all night. We literally would play every night until about 1:00 a.m. I watched every pro match I could and emulated my favorite pros. I got Tennis Magazine and Tennis Week magazine back then and continually learned new things. So I am a self-taught player.

I started playing USTA when I was about 26/27 and progressed to 5.0 a couple of years ago. The funny thing is that my regular doubles partner never really played in HS or College either and is a self-taught player.

I always love getting the question, "where did you play college tennis"?

I got my first racquet when I was 47. I quit competetive running and golf and started playing almost every day. I'm now 55 and playing on a 4.5 team although I have a 4.0 rating. I take lessons twice a week and try to practice more than I actually play matches. I live in a college town and get to play and practice with 18-20 years olds as well as great adults.

The great thing about this game is that I honestly feel that my best days as an athlete are yet to come.

I am above a 4.0 level and started playing at the age of 30. I really don't think tennis is a difficult sport and have been pleasantly surprised at my progress every year. I am a former figure skater and believe skating to be much more physically demanding and progress to much more gradual. I suppose my skating background has helped my tennis.

I am above a 4.0 level and started playing at the age of 30. I really don't think tennis is a difficult sport and have been pleasantly surprised at my progress every year. I am a former figure skater and believe skating to be much more physically demanding and progress to much more gradual. I suppose my skating background has helped my tennis.

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Interesting. In ESPN Page 2's rating of sport difficulty, tennis came in 7th, and figure skating 19th. I Guess your just a natural tennis player. That would make you the exception though, not the rule.

Interesting. In ESPN Page 2's rating of sport difficulty, tennis came in 7th, and figure skating 19th. I Guess your just a natural tennis player. That would make you the exception though, not the rule.

Would be interested in seeing your league/tournament results, for grins.

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OMG that list is such bs. Football number three??? Figure skating is so much more difficult than football, baseball, tennis, basketball...the list is absurd.

Skating came naturally for me. I was jumping and spinning before skating backward which is very unheard of in the sport. I skated for many years and even though I was a natural, it was the most difficult sport I ever did. Football was easy and boring. Baseball was too boring to play much and no challenge at all. Hockey- scored 3 goals and had one assist the first game I ever played.

I am not part of a league. I have yet to find one in my area that plays real tennis by the actual rules. All this no ad scoring and whoever is up in a set wins the set if time runs out, etc. It's pathetic. Since I will only play tennis and not bs versions of tennis, I play lots of people out of league, according to the true rules of the game like the pros. My 2006 record is currently 82-10. My 2005 record was 80-4. My two handed backhand came naturally the first time I stepped on a court, movement was always great, getting down low was always easy, stamina always exceptional but my forehand wasn't very good. It was the only thing for which I sought instruction.

I am not part of a league. I have yet to find one in my area that plays real tennis by the actual rules. All this no ad scoring and whoever is up in a set wins the set if time runs out, etc. It's pathetic. Since I will only play tennis and not bs versions of tennis, I play lots of people out of league, according to the true rules of the game like the pros. My 2006 record is currently 82-10. My 2005 record was 80-4. My two handed backhand came naturally the first time I stepped on a court, movement was always great, getting down low was always easy, stamina always exceptional but my forehand wasn't very good. It was the only thing for which I sought instruction.

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Where do you live? Never heard of any leagues playing no ad scoring.

Rickson was like 200-0. I don't think anybody could really get an idea of how good he was. I am sure he thought he was 4.0-4.5 but for all we know he could have been 3.0-3.5. Matchplay in non-tournament settings are hard to gauge. You could be "way above 4.0" as you say but your match record is hard to make too much out of especially since you describe don't exactly describe the players in your area in a very favorable light.

about me: im probably a 3.0. i played a year in HS. we had a class and practice afterward. our coach taught us the basics and we pretty much played against each other. there was practice after school everyday during the season and all of us went to hit on fridays. i wouldnt say we were a great team although there were some good players. most of all we lacked mental and match toughness.

anyway, in college i pretty much stopped except for one tennis class and maybe go out and hit a couple times a year with family. after graduation been playing about a year and a half now. i have a kind of consistent kick serve that doesnt have much pace, a two hander thats reliable, good footwork, but a crappy forehand. getting better each week as i play/practice about two-three times.

Football was easy and boring. Baseball was too boring to play much and no challenge at all. Hockey- scored 3 goals and had one assist the first game I ever played.

I am not part of a league. I have yet to find one in my area that plays real tennis by the actual rules. All this no ad scoring and whoever is up in a set wins the set if time runs out, etc. It's pathetic.

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Football and baseball are too easy for you, huh? I understand, but if you'd deign to spend just a couple of years pitching for the New York Yankees or quarterbacking for the Dallas Cowboys, you could make some big money and thus afford to start your own tennis league without no-ad scoring.

OMG that list is such bs. Football number three??? Figure skating is so much more difficult than football, baseball, tennis, basketball...the list is absurd.

Skating came naturally for me. I was jumping and spinning before skating backward which is very unheard of in the sport. I skated for many years and even though I was a natural, it was the most difficult sport I ever did. Football was easy and boring. Baseball was too boring to play much and no challenge at all. Hockey- scored 3 goals and had one assist the first game I ever played.

I am not part of a league. I have yet to find one in my area that plays real tennis by the actual rules. All this no ad scoring and whoever is up in a set wins the set if time runs out, etc. It's pathetic. Since I will only play tennis and not bs versions of tennis, I play lots of people out of league, according to the true rules of the game like the pros. My 2006 record is currently 82-10. My 2005 record was 80-4. My two handed backhand came naturally the first time I stepped on a court, movement was always great, getting down low was always easy, stamina always exceptional but my forehand wasn't very good. It was the only thing for which I sought instruction.

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IF THE TIME RUNS OUT???

I have never in all my league/tournament play, played a timed match. Now that would be BS. I think you need to understand why the rules you call BS, are in place.

I play league in the Houston Tennis Association. We have no ad scoring, and 10 point tie breakers in lieu of a third set. These are the rules, but I have played add before as well as third sets if both parties agreed.

We play Thursday nights and the above mentioned rules facilitate a quicker match, because some of the facilities we play at have limited court availability, and we have to stagger the line times. Given the fact that most of us have JOBS, I think the rules work out well. Sure you can get lucky on a no add point here and there, but usually the best team does win. Hell , me and my partner agreed to play add against some recent opponents, and they whined about how they would have beat us if we played no add. There are some people you just can't please.

Look, I have played "real tennis", as you call it. In high school, on a team, with a coach. And you know what? It's the same as the tennis I play now; it just took a little longer to complete the match. So sorry, but I have to call BS on your assessment.

By the way, in the absence of any proof of ability, I find your "self rating" suspect at best, just as Goober implied in so many words.

Football and baseball are too easy for you, huh? I understand, but if you'd deign to spend just a couple of years pitching for the New York Yankees or quarterbacking for the Dallas Cowboys, you could make some big money and thus afford to start your own tennis league without no-ad scoring.

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I don't know how anybody can say a sport is so easy unless they were successful on a very high level. Given the physical build of most ice skaters, I would be very surprised if he could be even successful in football on the high school level. If it were so easy why isn't he playing professionally or what honors has he received in those sports?

Rickson was like 200-0. I don't think anybody could really get an idea of how good he was. I am sure he thought he was 4.0-4.5 but for all we know he could have been 3.0-3.5. Matchplay in non-tournament settings are hard to gauge. You could be "way above 4.0" as you say but your match record is hard to make too much out of especially since you describe don't exactly describe the players in your area in a very favorable light.

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I said that I was above a 4.0 level not "way above". You need to learn how to correctly quote people. I was rated between a 3.5 and 4.0, by a teaching pro, my first year playing the game without ever having a lesson. I have improved a great deal since then. I live in Pennsylvania and all the leagues play no ad scoring. You only are on the court for a set period of time so the player who is ahead in the set wins the set!!! I will not waste my time and money on such bull. I met a new guy this past summer who claimed with much confidence that he was rated a 4.0 and he never took a set off of me. In fact, I toyed with him. Like most most people in my area he couldn't handle losing and stopped playing with me. Tennis is not difficult, not for me. I am going to be the target here for saying it because most people find the sport of tennis extremely challenging. I'm just saying it like it is, at least for me.

I have never in all my league/tournament play, played a timed match. Now that would be BS. I think you need to understand why the rules you call BS, are in place.

I play league in the Houston Tennis Association. We have no ad scoring, and 10 point tie breakers in lieu of a third set. These are the rules, but I have played add before as well as third sets if both parties agreed.

We play Thursday nights and the above mentioned rules facilitate a quicker match, because some of the facilities we play at have limited court availability, and we have to stagger the line times. Given the fact that most of us have JOBS, I think the rules work out well. Sure you can get lucky on a no add point here and there, but usually the best team does win. Hell , me and my partner agreed to play add against some recent opponents, and they whined about how they would have beat us if we played no add. There are some people you just can't please.

Look, I have played "real tennis", as you call it. In high school, on a team, with a coach. And you know what? It's the same as the tennis I play now; it just took a little longer to complete the match. So sorry, but I have to call BS on your assessment.

By the way, in the absence of any proof of ability, I find your "self rating" suspect at best, just as Goober implied in so many words.

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Well, that's right the matches are timed. It is bs. The no ad scoring changes everything. I understand the reason for doing it but I don't agree with it. If you don't have time to play tennis, the way it is supposed to be played, then don't play it. I like coming back from ad out on my serve. The game is supposed to be played with ad scoring so one can use one's grit and perserverance. The idea of losing a set when you are on serve 4-5 because time is up is absurd. I was rated between a 3.5 and 4.0 by a very good teaching pro my first year playing. He couldn't believe that I never took lessons before and that I was a novice. I probably started my first day ever on a court, which was only months before I met that coach, at a 3.0 level. Anyway, that was years ago and with my learned forehand and self taught slices, etc. I am clearly above a 4.0. I don't care what you suspect or think about me. Every year I meet some chump who has had instruction all his life and I beat him in straight sets. I just loved it a few years ago when I played a guy who claimed to be a 5.0 and I beat him 6-0 and then he quit. He was boasting of his usta league tennis every weekend and all the tournaments he did... I haven't won every match I played and never claimed that I did. I'm just saying that I don't think tennis is all that difficult. It's not as difficult for me as the average person I guess.

I said that I was above a 4.0 level not "way above". You need to learn how to correctly quote people. I was rated between a 3.5 and 4.0, by a teaching pro, my first year playing the game without ever having a lesson. I have improved a great deal since then. I live in Pennsylvania and all the leagues play no ad scoring. You only are on the court for a set period of time so the player who is ahead in the set wins the set!!! I will not waste my time and money on such bull. I met a new guy this past summer who claimed with much confidence that he was rated a 4.0 and he never took a set off of me. In fact, I toyed with him. Like most most people in my area he couldn't handle losing and stopped playing with me. Tennis is not difficult, not for me. I am going to be the target here for saying it because most people find the sport of tennis extremely challenging. I'm just saying it like it is, at least for me.

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So if you are above 4.0, then you are 4.5 I take it? the fact a teaching pro rating you a 3.5-4.0 is meaningless to me. I have had teaching pros rate some guy 4.5 and put him in our 4.5 league and he promptly lost every match he played and quit. I was rated between 3.0-3.5 when I started and I won the 3.5 league the first year without dropping set and half my matches were double bagels

Unless you have had success at USTA tourneys/leagues at the 4.5 level, I don't think you can confidently say that you are at that level. Unless somebody has a verifiable computer rating, somebody I meet and tells me they are at a certain level almost certainly are not that level. The last three players I have played that claimed that they were 4.5 players that I met who did not play USTA tourneys or leagues were actually 3.5s and I beat pretty easily. I think that you are in area with very little competition or you are not challenging yourself to be in a competitive situation. You keep saying all these sports are easy for you but have you actually played anybody other than a bunch of hacks? There is huge level in difference in play between tourney player and nontourney players in my experience on the club level. If you really want to see what level you are you have to test yourself against players in 4.5 USTA tourneys/leagues.

I don't know how anybody can say a sport is so easy unless they were successful on a very high level. Given the physical build of most ice skaters, I would be very surprised if he could be even successful in football on the high school level. If it were so easy why isn't he playing professionally or what honors has he received in those sports?

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You don't have to dedicate yourself to playing a sport to the professional level to have enough experience to compare the sport with other sports. I have played all those sports and I can tell you Figure skating and gymnastics are so much more difficult and physically demanding than tennis, football, basketball, baseball, hockey, golf... Skating and gymnastics are probably the hardest sports.

So if you are above 4.0, then you are 4.5 I take it? the fact a teaching pro rating you a 3.5-4.0 is meaningless to me. I have had teaching pros rate some guy 4.5 and put him in our 4.5 league and he promptly lost every match he played and quit. I was rated between 3.0-3.5 when I started and I won the 3.5 league the first year without dropping set and half my matches were double bagels

Unless you have had success at USTA tourneys/leagues at the 4.5 level, I don't think you can confidently say that you are at that level. Unless somebody has a verifiable computer rating, somebody I meet and tells me they are at a certain level almost certainly are not that level. The last three players I have played that claimed that they were 4.5 players that I met who did not play USTA tourneys or leagues were actually 3.5s and I beat pretty easily. I think that you are in area with very little competition or you are not challenging yourself to be in a competitive situation. You keep saying all these sports are easy for you but have you actually played anybody other than a bunch of hacks? There is huge level in difference in play between tourney player and nontourney players in my experience on the club level. If you really want to see what level you are you have to test yourself against players in 4.5 USTA tourneys/leagues.

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Just to use your own reasoning against you to prove my "case"- the 5.0 player I beat back when I was like 3.5 was rated 5.0 in the usta leagues so there you have it. Now, you're just picking fights. Don't be jealous that tennis comes easily to me and maybe not for you. Get a life and stop caring so much about me. You don't see anyone else on this board obsessing over what I am saying so stop making it personal.

No-ad scoring really sucks. I would bet it probably quadriples the chance of the weaker player upsetting the stronger player in a match. If there was no-ad in the pros Federer would probably have like 20 losses this year.

Instead of no-ad, any league that wants to keep matches short should just score to 21 or something, and count that as a set.

Just to use your own reasoning against you to prove my "case"- the 5.0 player I beat back when I was like 3.5 was rated 5.0 in the usta leagues so there you have it. Now, you're just picking fights. Don't be jealous that tennis comes easily to me and maybe not for you. Get a life and stop caring so much about me. You don't see anyone else on this board obsessing over what I am saying so stop making it personal.

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I am not making it personal. You just sound like some of the kids I know from junior high, who brag about how great they are in all these sports. Baseball, football and hockey are all easy for you, yet you have never accomplished anything significant in these sports. You beat a 5.0 rated player back when you were 3.5? Ok I guess that pretty much sums up your delusions.

I only have a 3.5 rating, but I hope to emulate Geezer Guy pretty soon. I find this an interesting topic and I want to share my story.

I first played Tennis for about 6 months in 1984, in India, on red clay courts with a shiny new Symmonds wood racket for which I paid less than $2. Balls cost almost as much as rackets, so we just hacked around with bald used balls.

After that, I got a job, moved to the other end of India and basically quit Tennis. Played about 20 times in the next 21 years. In this time, I got married, had kids, lived in two new countries(UK & USA). I also played a lot of cricket and basketball, the latter until I tore an ACL.

I took up Tennis again in June 2005 because I had a couple of commuting buddies who constantly talked about Tennis on the train. Without having seen either of them play, I challenged them to play me. Neither had played any sport growing up, so I was confident I would beat at least the weaker one of the two. I did beat one and lost to the other guy. Now I can say their respective levels were about 2.5 and 3.0. My strokes were 1.5 but I had some speed and enough hand eye coordination to consistently bunt the ball close to the sweet spot. But I couldn't control the ball, so I just bunted aiming for the middle of the court.

After this, I got hooked, and have been playing regularly ever since, as frequently as my body will permit(I am 44 now, and about 6 hours per week is the most I can play; knees are the main bottleneck).
I played USTA as a self-rated 3.0 this past summer, won all my singles matches comfortably, and got bumped up to 3.5. Next season, I plan to play with a 3.5 and a 4.0 team. There is a weak 4.0 team I know; I play with 3 of the weakest guys from that team and I beat them all in straight sets.

I am mostly a self-taught player, but I had have had subscriptions TennisOne.com first and now TennisPlayer.net. My improvement strategy has been to to try and precisely emulate the pros' form with each stroke. So far I have been able to change my forehand and 2hbh form to my satisfaction. In the last couple of months, I have put in serious work on my serve, and it has been making a difference, off and on.

I only have a 3.5 rating, but I hope to emulate Geezer Guy pretty soon. I find this an interesting topic and I want to share my story.

I first played Tennis for about 6 months in 1984, in India, on red clay courts with a shiny new Symmonds wood racket for which I paid less than $2. Balls cost almost as much as rackets, so we just hacked around with bald used balls.

After that, I got a job, moved to the other end of India and basically quit Tennis. Played about 20 times in the next 21 years. In this time, I got married, had kids, lived in two new countries(UK & USA). I also played a lot of cricket and basketball, the latter until I tore an ACL.

I took up Tennis again in June 2005 because I had a couple of commuting buddies who constantly talked about Tennis on the train. Without having seen either of them play, I challenged them to play me. Neither had played any sport growing up, so I was confident I would beat at least the weaker one of the two. I did beat one and lost to the other guy. Now I can say their respective levels were about 2.5 and 3.0. My strokes were 1.5 but I had some speed and enough hand eye coordination to consistently bunt the ball close to the sweet spot. But I couldn't control the ball, so I just bunted aiming for the middle of the court.

After this, I got hooked, and have been playing regularly ever since, as frequently as my body will permit(I am 44 now, and about 6 hours per week is the most I can play; knees are the main bottleneck).
I played USTA as a self-rated 3.0 this past summer, won all my singles matches comfortably, and got bumped up to 3.5. Next season, I plan to play with a 3.5 and a 4.0 team. There is a weak 4.0 team I know; I play with 3 of the weakest guys from that team and I beat them all in straight sets.

I am mostly a self-taught player, but I had have had subscriptions TennisOne.com first and now TennisPlayer.net. My improvement strategy has been to to try and precisely emulate the pros' form with each stroke. So far I have been able to change my forehand and 2hbh form to my satisfaction. In the last couple of months, I have put in serious work on my serve, and it has been making a difference, off and on.

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Good for you Maverick. Tennis is a fun game in which you can make dramatic improvement in a very short period of time unlike figure skating and gymnastics. Just by taking an interest in your game you'll improve. Tennis really should have more participants. It's not very hard.

Like I said, get a life. The 5.0 I beat is the truth not a delusion and it should shut you up since it uses your reasoning against you. You haven't changed a bit. You were attacking me when I first started posting on this board. You are pathetically obsessed with me for some reason.

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Well I hardly ever post on these boards, but you can firmly put me in the "I think your delusional" camp. Maybe Pennsylvania tennis is just not that competitive, I don't know. Your obviously very sport biased towards figure skating (which I enjoy watching, and appears to be difficult, by the way), that's why I added the ESPN link, which you gave no credit.

I have a life, so this will be my last post to you. Enjoy your non- league/tournament "real tennis" dominance. Must get boring for you to be so good, with so few to challenge you.