I think that SotS2 is not as buggy as you guys make it seem. The learning curve is steep enough that you can spend the time learning the game now, then when the AI is "toughened up" - you will be challenged.

Stardrive. This game has legitimate potential for the new 4X throne. Watch out!

So you're playing the closed Beta? Cool. I've actually been watching this one on SpaceSector.com, and yes, it does seem to have the potential to give Distant Worlds a run for its money, though of course this remains to be seen.

I did like the interview with Daniel DiCicco on SpaceSector though, and it gave me reason to be optimistic about StarDrive. For one thing he decries the generally sad state of diplomacy in most 4X games, and means to rectify this with StarDrive (BTW, I think that DW has one of the best diplomatic models I've ever seen in a 4X game, though there is room for improvement). For another, Mr. DiCicco is a Firefly fan, and anyone who likes that great series is alright by me.

Concerning playing Betas, I had to mention: I played the open Beta of Fallen Enchantress for a while, and although I mostly enjoyed it, I found I was tired of the game by the time of its official release. Having said that, I think I'm going to avoid the open Beta of StarDrive when it becomes available on Steam next month, and just sit tight for the official release and reviews.

BTW, one or two of you mentioned the 'propaganda' machine regarding StarDrive, and I wanted to add that I think I learned my lesson about succumbing to the propaganda machine and fanboy hype from the dreadful Endless Space.

... about succumbing to the propaganda machine and fanboy hype from the dreadful Endless Space.

?? Endless Space is a very good game, it has dethroned MoO for me. I'm not very active in their forums and not playing that much (only about 60 hours played based on Rapt'r), but it is a very good game compared to other MoO-alikes.

... about succumbing to the propaganda machine and fanboy hype from the dreadful Endless Space.

?? Endless Space is a very good game, it has dethroned MoO for me. I'm not very active in their forums and not playing that much (only about 60 hours played based on Rapt'r), but it is a very good game compared to other MoO-alikes.

But clearly opinions/tastes differ :)

Clearly tastes do differ, and a good thing too.

But seriously, I had really wanted to like ES, but after the better part of two evenings it just wasn't doing it for me. For one thing the tech tree is a jumbled mess. Additionally, the AI cheats and spams and diplomacy seemed useless. Also, although the ships looked mostly OK, the combat was a rather bad rock/scissors/paper implementation. Most importantly though, the ES galaxy seemed rather sterile and boring compared to the teaming-with-life and surprises Distant Worlds galaxy.

To be fair the game might improve after additional content and patches, but I really think now that the real-time paradigm like DW is the way to go with big 4X space games. Having said that, what with me now enjoying Distant Worlds so much and a DW expansion (to say nothing of StarDrive) on the horizon, it is doubtful that I'll ever revisit Endless Space.

Space Empires. It is a bit outdated graphically but if you still like to try them out I would suggest to play SE4. But DW is better.

Ah Space Empires, silly me. A coworker of mine has raved about it, but I think I'll stick with Distant Worlds.

I've also been playing a Russian space game called Star Wolves, and really like it. It is beautiful and rather challenging. Additionally, it has one of the best game soundtracks I've heard in a while. The Russian band has Pink Floyd nailed.

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor 60 hours is not much? You obviously have a lot more free time on your hands than a normal person! 60 hours is a long time! I maybe get that much time in 1.5 - 2 months to play games in total.

Too little time and too many good games, I would say. Many of my favorite sandbox games have hundreds of hours clocked. :)

SecuransRule: Star wolves is a game that I have never had the time to try out, aren't they more of a simulation game?

Stardrive. This game has legitimate potential for the new 4X throne. Watch out!

So you're playing the closed Beta? Cool. I've actually been watching this one on SpaceSector.com, and yes, it does seem to have the potential to give Distant Worlds a run for its money, though of course this remains to be seen.

I did like the interview with Daniel DiCicco on SpaceSector though, and it gave me reason to be optimistic about StarDrive. For one thing he decries the generally sad state of diplomacy in most 4X games, and means to rectify this with StarDrive (BTW, I think that DW has one of the best diplomatic models I've ever seen in a 4X game, though there is room for improvement). For another, Mr. DiCicco is a Firefly fan, and anyone who likes that great series is alright by me.

Concerning playing Betas, I had to mention: I played the open Beta of Fallen Enchantress for a while, and although I mostly enjoyed it, I found I was tired of the game by the time of its official release. Having said that, I think I'm going to avoid the open Beta of StarDrive when it becomes available on Steam next month, and just sit tight for the official release and reviews.

BTW, one or two of you mentioned the 'propaganda' machine regarding StarDrive, and I wanted to add that I think I learned my lesson about succumbing to the propaganda machine and fanboy hype from the dreadful Endless Space.

Yes, I am in the closed beta. I'm not one to give in to hype and I certainly don't go out of my way to hype a game up. That being said, Stardrive is shaping up to be very similar to Distant Worlds, only with better graphics, better diplomacy, espionage, and much better shop design. And that's just now, in closed beta.

I feel you about betas burning you out. I have done a few and more than a few have left me feeling burned out, but Stardrive still excites me, even if I have played well over 100 hours of it in total.

I am a Skyrim modder myself and don't have much time for other games than that. However, I enjoy some good strategy in-between. I just recently purchased Distant Worlds though and I'm really enjoying it. I also like the Paradox games, like CKII, Victoria II and EUIII. I've also been playing some Civ 5 this year when the G&K expansion came, but I don't like 5 as much as 4. There's lots of interesting stuff to look forward to in 2013.

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor 60 hours is not much? You obviously have a lot more free time on your hands than a normal person! 60 hours is a long time! I maybe get that much time in 1.5 - 2 months to play games in total.

Too little time and too many good games, I would say. Many of my favorite sandbox games have hundreds of hours clocked. :)

SecuransRule: Star wolves is a game that I have never had the time to try out, aren't they more of a simulation game?

Star wolves is a great series. A combination of several genres all in one neat package. Fine... Got its flaws but what game doesn't. As for a sim game, I don't think this is it. More tactical approach with some interesting rpg elements in it. Quite a unique approach to be appreciated.

The game world isn't that busy, the trade/economy is rather limited so don't go expecting any X universe stuff. But it is fun. A least it was in my very own case. Need to play to understand really.

What's really cool is that the very last game (civil war) in the series was developed together with the modding community of the previous installments of the series. Shame about ashes of victory though. Its development came to a rather sudden halt. Anyways, give it a try.

Space Wolves are really good game. Its is sort of RTS in space with RPG elements. You gather group of pilots equip them with fighters and weapons and lead them to victory. First part is pretty funny next are not so.

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You can call me a god but I am Better than that. Why? Answer is simple. Becoze I am a CAT.

Between Distant Worlds and Star Wolves, I can't remember the last time I alternated between two such great games.

Another thing I really like about Star Wolves is that from the moment you start playing it you realize right away that this is not an American game. I find the Eastern European feel quite different and refreshing. I take it you guys recommend the other two Star Wolves games?