How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???

Remember the hundreds of millions of dollars Jindal made BP direct toward Shaw in the aftermath of the oil spill to build those sand berms few outside the administration thought would work? I wonder how they have held up?

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by LSURussian on 2/8/13 at 8:26 am to I B Freeman)

quote:I wonder how they have held up?

Were they supposed to "hold up"? The berms were built to capture some of the oil that was leaking to prevent the oil from reaching the coastal marshes. I never thought they were planned to be permanent.

Do you have a link supporting your assumption the berms were intended to be permanent islands?

quote:Do you think that was political cronyism?

quote: direct toward Shaw

Well since Shaw was run by a big Democrat/Obama supporter (Jim Bernhard), the answer to your question is NO.

I'm not saying it's slam-dunk that the Governor ordered those berms built simply for political back-rubbing. However, just want to point out that you can't assume Jindal and Shaw wouldn't have a buddy-buddy relationship just because of Bernhardt.

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by RCDfan1950 on 2/8/13 at 8:37 am to TigerDat)

I've often wondered how it would work to use some sort of virtually indestructible large 'bag' that would be filled in place with dredged sand. Like the kind they drop from helicopters to stop broken levees, only stronger and made of stuff that would be considered a 'biohazard' because is is bio undegradable.

Of course, the thing would require a rock barrier, or some sort of hardened protection against hard objects punching holes.

Having wade fished the beaches down there a lot, breaches always start with cuts you can step across...next year...one has to wade. A dredge with a crew of Mexicans headed up by an old salt, and few of those bags could save a ton of projects like this.

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by I B Freeman on 2/8/13 at 8:49 am to LSURussian)

quote:Do you have a link supporting your assumption the berms were intended to be permanent islands?

From the New York Times report at the time

quote:At the time, however, Louisiana officials insisted they were committed to spending the remaining money on more oil-blocking berms.

Several weeks later, Louisiana has changed its tune considerably. On Monday, Bobby Jindal, the state’s governor, announced that $100 million of the remaining berm money would be redirected toward coastal restoration, a move endorsed by BP.

Specifically, the money would be used to convert the more than 10 miles of berms already built from temporary oil-blocking structures into permanent barrier islands. The remaining $40 million would be used to complete several berm sections still under construction and other expenses related to the project.

Louisiana’s barrier islands have in the past helped damp the impact of storms on the coast but have been starved of sediment from the leveeing of the Mississippi River and heavily eroded by storms like Hurricane Katrina. Restoring the islands is considered a crucial element of protecting coastal communities from future storms and the shoreline from further erosion.

Some berm opponents were somewhat mollified by the move. Leonard Bahr, a coastal scientist and former director of the Louisiana Office of Coastal Activities, who has harshly criticized the berm project as futile and politically motivated from the beginning, said he backed the shift to coastal restoration, although he had reservations about how the state would carry out the work.

“I support putting the money to better use, and I support the idea of barrier island restoration,” Mr. Bahr said.

Like other scientists, though, he considers the berms a failure in their original role as oil-blocking structures and a colossal waste of money. According to state estimates, the berms have captured just 1,000 barrels of oil so far, at a cost of $220 million. By way of comparison, Mr. Bahr pointed out, the recently opened Hoover Dam Bypass, a four-lane highway bridge that soars 840 feet above the Colorado River, cost $240 million.

“That’s an awesome structure that’s going to be around beyond the end of petroleum, and here we’ve spent $220 million and got virtually nothing to show for it,” he said. “It just seems appalling to me.”

Louisiana officials sharply disagree with this assessment. Even if the berms did not capture as much oil as they had originally hoped, by the time it is finished the project will still represent the largest coastal restoration project in state history, they say.

But whether the project is ultimately judged a success in terms of coastal restoration remains to be seen. In particular, transforming the rapidly built berms into permanent barrier islands that can withstand the strong storms and tides of coastal Louisiana will be extremely challenging, experts say.

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by Politiceaux on 2/8/13 at 8:49 am to LSURussian)

quote:Were they supposed to "hold up"? The berms were built to capture some of the oil that was leaking to prevent the oil from reaching the coastal marshes. I never thought they were planned to be permanent.

Do you have a link supporting your assumption the berms were intended to be permanent islands?

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by I B Freeman on 2/8/13 at 8:58 am to Politiceaux)

I just remember thinking why would the administration do the berms and then talk about them being permanent islands when to the man every expert outside the employment of Louisiana or one of the State's contractors said it was a stupid idea. An idea that came to be called "Jindal's folly" by some.

So unless we have over estimated Jindal's intelligence there had to be a reason for undertaking such a stupid idea. Forgive me for living in Louisiana so long that I can not rule out political patronage. (Speaking of which I wonder how Mr. Bo Pilgrim's company made out with the $30 million extra they got for their chicken plant from the state??He contributes to a large Pac and contributed to the Governor.)

re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by CITWTT on 2/8/13 at 9:03 am to I B Freeman)

They were not intended to be lasting structures in the first place. The intent was to redirect the flow of water from the gulf in to the marshes when the spill was active and killing the estuaries along the coast.

quote:Do you have a link supporting your assumption the berms were intended to be permanent islands?

Roger, nothing's permanent in this dynamic environment.

quote:I've often wondered how it would work to use some sort of virtually indestructible large 'bag' that would be filled in place with dredged sand...Of course, the thing would require a rock barrier, or some sort of hardened protection against hard objects punching holes.

It would all eventually sink into the sediments.

This is all brand new land down here, as you pile sediments up, they compact the previous sediments, until deep down below you get sedimentary rock. So gravity is pulling all of the particles downward and compressing them deep underground. Anything you put on the surface that is heavier than the sediments it rests on will sink into the sediment. It's like a bunch of quicksand.

Also, anytime you build a ring levee and pump the water out of the 'ring', you de-water the sediments causing them to subside, or compact more quickly.

Look at the image of the Gloden Meadow area below. It is an elevation map where gray mid-tomes (see Lake Salvador) are at sea level, lighter shades (see the natural levees along the Mississippi and bayou Lafourche) are above sea level, and the darker/black areas are below sea level:

quote:They were not intended to be lasting structures in the first place. The intent was to redirect the flow of water from the gulf in to the marshes when the spill was active and killing the estuaries along the coast.

That is not true. Jindal and Nungessor were saying they would provide storm protection after the oil spill crises. It was a stupid idea and every body was telling them that it was. No reason to deny that.

quote:Jindal and Nungessor were saying they would provide storm protection after the oil spill crises.

They can if maintained. You have to keep dredging up sand from offshore and pump it back up onto whatever barrier island you want to make. It would be costly, however.

quote:It was a stupid idea and every body was telling them that it was.

The idea isn't stupid, most coastal morphologists recognize the utility of barrier islands in a coastal management scheme, but as only one part. What Jindal did may be considered rash, as he was under a time constraint and couldn't conduct the studies necessary to place the structure at the most advantageous position. But Van Heerden also promoted the concept of man-made/managed barrier islands, as he's had experiance in building them off of South Africa - however, he had a lot more coarser sediments to work with down there. He did say there were sand lenses right offshore that could be used for barrier island maintenance in Louisiana.

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re: How are those sand berms Jindal built holding up???(Posted by ragincajun03 on 2/8/13 at 11:01 am to TigerDeacon)

quote:23k over 8 years, wow!!!!!

Clearly Jindal sold his soul for less than $3k a year.

If you think that's what I was saying, then you have piss-poor reading comprehension skills. All I was doing was pointing out that Shaw was still one of Jindal's top industry contributors while in Congress despite Jim Bernhard being their CEO.