Coming to the present, why did you choose to return now? Why not five
years before? Why now?

Five years before... [Laughs, pauses.] I feel the situation is
most conducive. There is a peace process going on. I know from inside
that there is a Track II diplomacy. Now everybody wants peace, everybody
has realised that gun is not the solution. I was saying the same thing
10 years ago. If I had come and said in '92, gun is not the solution,
they would have killed me. Today when I say gun is not the solution,
stop it, everybody is listening.

Then my conscience... people are dying here. And Mary
Robinson, the chairman of the [United Nations] Human Rights
[Commission] told me, Go tell the people that there can be no
solution with armed struggle.

My conscience troubled me, it kept telling me that my people are dying
here on the streets. [So much so that] I was always sick. I was
with my wife, but I was not with her. I was spending eight hours
on the computer. I was sleeping only four hours. I am healthy here than
[I was] there.

How did your family react to your decision to return?

My wife, she is a little bit worried. About my health, this prison,
about threats. Yeah, she is worried.

You see, the Kashmir struggle is not on the right track. Before two
weeks, Mr Lone gave an interview in which he said we are slaves both in
PoK and here. He said we are better off here because we are at least
struggling for freedom. The people in PoK can't even do that.

What I told in the 90s, in my book Unveiling of the truth, people
are saying it today. Shabir Shah said on television that we can go to election
on both sides supervised by NGOs and the representatives from both sides
can then decide on Kashmir. This formula I had told in '92. Now all the
leaders are arriving at the solutions I suggested in '90 or '92.

This is not a religious struggle. Whoever is saying that this is a
religious struggle, he is not a real Kashmiri. He could be an enemy of
Kashmir. Because, then he is asking for the division of Kashmir on the
basis of religion. And then we can't get anything. The Valley is only
8,000 kilometres. There is Ladakh, there is Jammu, there is Gilgit-
Baltistan, there is PoK.

What is your plan of action here? What do you hope to achieve
here?

My plan of action... I want to save Kashmir environmentally. You can see
everywhere, there are no trees, nothing. This is also treason against
the country. I want to teach the people about environment and I want to
teach them that this is an era in which nobody will listen to the gun.

Last year on Eid day there was a mine blast here. And one old man was
beating his chest and saying, 'Is this azadi? My two sons have
died.' Every television in Europe and America showed it and everybody was
against our struggle: This is your struggle? Killing the people?

This is not a religious struggle. Whoever is saying this is a
religious struggle, is not a real Kashmiri.

The gun is now giving a benefit to Indians. They are killing and
arresting people. If we stop using the gun, then we can announce to the
world that the gun that is killing people in Kashmir now is not ours. If
there is a killing we can then say, it is done by the Indians. The gun
had a role. That role is now over. Now gun is an enemy of the Kashmiri
people.

My aim in coming here is to correct this wrong path of the struggle.
Because you can continue with killing for another 50 years and we still
won't reach our goal. We have a party here, the J&K Democratic
Liberation Party. We need to strengthen it. We need civil disobedience. We are going to hold talks
with a lot of people. We already are talking with people.

Who will be your political allies?

Every sensible man. Every sensible group. Every sensible political
leader. I am a pro-Kashmiri. But pro-Kashmiri does not mean pro-Valley.
I am not communal. I am deadly secular. I will not compromise on that. I
will not compromise on being pro-Kashmir either. To me a Kashmiri means
not someone living in the Valley alone.

How do you see the cease-fire?

It is a very nice step. But you need to move ahead. With the cease-fire
the Indians want to show the whole world that we want peace. I think we
are fools to oppose the cease-fire. Who opposes the cease-fire, he is
telling the world that we don't want peace! When you are rejecting the
cease-fire, you are rejecting a solution to our problem.

You said Indians want to show the world... does that mean that you
don't believe the cease-fire is sincere?

There are so many bunkers here. Why the bunkers? You are providing
targets to militants. If there is no bunker, the militant cannot throw
grenades at it. There is a lot of tortures, arrests, killing in custody.
Just give the people a chance, show them that you are sincere and then
the people can themselves rise and say, Stop the gun!

But there are killings, STF (J&K police's Special Task Force) is arresting and killing people. If cease-fire doesn't mean stopping all this, it means nothing!

You got to go further. For instance, the Hurriyat wants to go to
Pakistan. Give them passports. But that will also not lead to a
solution. Because the Hurriyat does not represent the whole of Kashmir.
That's the truth. They have no Ladakh representation, no Jammu
representation... they do not even represent the whole Valley.

What is your solution?

Intra-Kashmir dialogue. The people of Gilgit, Ladakh, Jammu, PoK and the
Valley should sit together and talk. Then, talk with India, talk with
Pakistan. The best solution is to talk and talk till you reach a
solution.

In my point of view, there is only one solution: a secular independent
Kashmir including Gilgit-Baltistan, the whole PoK and Ladakh, Jammu and
Valley. A secular Kashmir that would include the Pandits. I am anxious
that they return.

I request the Pandits to come back. Live with us, die with
us.

There are vested interests who want the gun here. You see, these Sikhs,
they have been massacred. Who benefits from that? A lot of people here
became brokers of the property of Pandits. They made a lot of money. It
could be that such people killed the Sikhs to make them leave Valley
with an eye on their property. Kashmir never was communal and still is
not.

I have a message to the Sikh brothers and sisters. Don't go from here.
This is your land. We don't want to let you go. I want to tell the
Pandits and Sikhs that more Kashmiri Muslims are dying every day, killed
by grenades, by police, by militants. But we are not leaving. We are
staying here. I request the Pandits to come back. Live with us, die with
us.

What are the bottlenecks you see to the peace process?

There is a need to stop the people who say they are fighting for Islam.
Even General Musharraf has said that this is not a religious war, it is
political problem.

You are calling for a stop to jihad and jihadis?

I am telling people to look at the international reaction, look at the
past 12 years. With this armed struggle we are not gaining anything.
Stop all this and let the people try to solve this problem. In India,
only Vajpayee can solve it. In Pakistan, there is a military regime that
can solve it. This is the best time to sit down and solve it.

A crop of political platforms has come up during the years of
militancy. How much do you think they have contributed to the Kashmir
cause?

I am not going to say names, but I know a political party that is part
of the Hurriyat, its district president is a chaprasi, peon, in a
government department. Except for Jamaat-e-Islami and Mirwaiz Omar
Farooq, no other party, including us, has any cadre on the ground.

I am with Mr Shabir Shah. He says that we should become one party. It
may not be possible for us all to become one party, but there is a way.
Whoever is asking for accession with Pakistan, let them all come
together, who is asking independent Kashmir, they can come together, and
who's asking to join India, they can come together. Then we talk. This
should include [the representatives of] Gilgit, Pakistan and PoK.

Okay... to repeat my question, do you think the new crop of parties
has contributed to a solution?

No, they have not. You see, the solution is not to make more parties.
That will only divide the people. I am ready to merge my party with
anyone who wants independent Kashmir. If you see the rest of the world,
America, for example, there are only two parties.

How long do you think it would take to arrive at a solution?

If Pakistan wants it, he can wind up all these militants in three-four
hours. That is one reality. My request to all these people are that, you
are also sons of somebody. Please, this is not a religious matter, this
is a political problem. There are more than 20 crore Muslims in India.
Nobody stops us in India from doing namaz or our religious
functions. You can't say this is a war against kafirs. Don't make
it a religious problem. When you make it a religious problem, the whole
world becomes against us and we lose their sympathy. So I request you,
Stop, this is the problem of the Kashmiri people.

That's the same statement that Mr Lone made in Pakistan.

Well, I can say that what Lone said then, I had said years ago. And Lone
is the one man who invited Taleban. I told him that time, when Afghan
was the rulers here, they tortured us. They rule very ruthlessly.

Do you think you are under threat from anyone?

Yes, you can say that. Here, in these 10 years, they killed every
sensible person. They killed Maulavi Farooq. They killed Maulavi Nisar
in Anantnag. They killed Dr Guru. They killed a lot of people. But they
can't kill truth. They can't kill the wish of the people. It is the wish
of the people that we want peace with dignity and honour. Not just
peace, not the peace of graveyard.

Every Kashmiri wants this problem to be solved. We want to stop the
excesses of the army, the STF and the surrendered militants. They are the enemies of the Kashmiri and
they are the enemy of the Indians. Because, when they are doing such
wrong things, then people think that it is India who is behind all this.
And these are the people who are creating hate between Indian and
Kahmiri people.

Do you foresee an end to all this in the near future?

If there is no big incident, I think we can achieve peace soon. I know
there are a lot of hardliners sitting in Pakistan, sitting here, sitting
in Indian government. They want killing, killing, killing. They have
vested interest in it.

But it depends on Pakistan and Indian rulers. We are slaves on both
sides. I think yes, there will be a solution, because both India and
Pakistan have economical problems. This Kashmir problem can be solved
within half-an-hour. How? By removing the hate that has been created on
both sides of the border by the Indian and Pakistani establishments. To
remove this from the hearts of the people, open the borders. Let
Pakistanis come here, let Indians go there. Open the markets,
everything.

I had given a solution earlier. Freezing Kashmir problem for 25 years.
Don't talk about a solution for 25 years. Give autonomy on both sides.
Open the border. Army, sit in the barracks. When people see each other
there will be no hate.

Why 25 years? Because it took 50 years to bring this hate. So you need
25 years to dissolve it.

Before we wind up, it is said that Indian agencies brought you back
as a counter to both the Hurriyat and National Conference. Your
comments.

[Laughs.] First of all, I am not famous as all that. Yeah, my
name is famous, people know me. But on the ground level, I have no big
party or followers.

If Pakistan wants it, it can wind up all these militants in three-four
hours.

Nobody brought me here. I came myself. If they had brought me they could
have done it the way Nelson Mandela was brought. They brought him from
the prison. There is no chief ministership or prime ministership for me.
I am in prison. As a prisoner, I can't change any situation.

Then, I am facing charges that were made in 1971: that I am a Pakistani
agent. There is a case against me under the Enemy Ordinance 3, a case
under the Official Secrets Act, a case for robbery and airplane-burning.

I am treated as an Indian agent by the Pakistanis, and as a Pakistani
agent by the Indians! I am the second man being treated so after Maqbool
Bhat.

And I am facing trial by the normal procedure. I am going to the chief
magistrate, I am going to the court... This is just propaganda by the
enemies of peace.

Is there anything that I haven't asked? Anything else you would like
to tell us?

I want to tell the people of Pakistan this: We are suffering a lot here.
Our people are being killed on the streets. This is not the way, to kill
children and women and burn them alive in their houses. I want to appeal
to Pakistani people, especially that side of the Gilgit Pakistan,
Please, we are on the edge of destruction. Just come out and say that
this is not the way. Don't kill anymore of us, we are already 80,000
killed. I request Pakistanis to stop sending armed people here. That is
not the solution.

To Indians I say, for 53 years Kashmir problem has been there. You are
the country of Gandhi. Your father of nation is respected by the whole
world. When you are not satisfying the Kashmiri people, it creates a bad
name for the country of Gandhi. You are sensible people, please solve
this problem. Stop these excesses.