Pinal County, Arizona Sheriff Paul Babeu, who made national headlines for his strident anti-immigration stance, threatened his Mexican male lover with deportation when the ex refused to promise never to disclose their long-term relationship. The details were provided in an article published in the Phoenix New Times this week. Today, Babeu acknowledged that he is, in fact, gay, but denied all of the other allegations published in the Phoenix paper.

He (Babeu’s ex-lover) says lawyer Chris DeRose demanded he sign an agreement that he would never breathe a word about the affair. But Jose (New Times is withholding his last name because Babeu and his attorney have challenged his legal status) refused.

The 34-year-old from central Mexico charges that the sheriff’s lawyer warned against mentioning the affair with Babeu. DeRose said gossip about Babeu would focus attention on Jose, attention that could result in his deportation, Jose says.

Melissa Weiss-Riner, Jose’s attorney, confirms her client’s account.

She says she spoke directly to the sheriff’s lawyer, DeRose, about the Babeu camp’s threats that Jose could be deported if he “revealed the relationship.” She says DeRose falsely claimed that Jose’s visa had expired.

“Jose came to our firm because he felt he was being intimidated, and he was in fear for his life,” Weiss-Riner says. “He wanted his legal rights protected.”

Pinal County Sheriff Paul Babeu

“Jose” says he and Babeu met in 2006 on gay.com. As the relationship grew, Jose created and maintained Babeu’s campaign websites and social media. New Times published text messages and voice mail exchanged between Jose and Babeu in 2011 soon after the relationship soured. The relationship fell apart when Jose found Babeu’s profile on adam4adam.com. Jose created a fake profile posing as “Matt” and soon Babeu began sending him explicit photos and messages. New Times provides the details of those messages and photos here.

In 2010, the Pinal County Sheriff’s office gained national attention when Deputy Louie Puroll claimed that he was ambushed in the desert by Mexican drug runners. Babeu became a regular feature on Fox News and other right-wing media outlets, stoking anti-immigrant hysteria that had, by then, led to Arizona’s passage of Senate Bill 1070, the so-called “show me your papers” bill. He also appeared in a commercial with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) demanding that the feds “build the danged fence.” Babeu continued to stand behind his deputy even after the story began falling apart. When Puroll later told a reporter that a drug smuggler threatened to kill the reporter, Babeu fired his deputy because the alleged incident hadn’t been reported to superiors. Just last week, Babeu gave a rabble-rousing speech at the right-wing CPAC conference.

In a news conference today, Babeu admitted that he was gay, and said that he was stepping down as Arizona co-chair of Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign. Babeu also admitted to having had a personal relationship with Jose, and also did not deny the text messages or photos that were published in New Times, which include some of the threats he made to Jose.

According to the Arizona Republic, a reporter was meeting with Babeu Friday just as the New Times story went online. With the reporter present, Babeu read the story on his smartphone, “shaking his head as he read. Afterward, his face appeared to strain with emotion.”

Babeu is currently running for Congress against fellow Republicans Rep. Paul Gosar and State Sen. Ron Gould for Arizona’s new 4th Congressional District in central and western Arizona. Pinal County is located between Tucson and Phoenix. Babeu and his DeRose say that they don’t think the story will impact his campaign. Babeu said, “My personal life is exactly that.”

The fallout from this scandal may spread far beyond Babeu and Jose. Openly gay state Rep. Matt Heinz (D-Tucson), who is running to fill the recently-vacated Congressional seat of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, was one of just two Democratic lawmakers to vote to give the Pinal County Sheriff’s office $5 million to combat “border violence,” even though Pinal County is more than 70 miles from the border. The legislature later scaled back the appropriation to $1.7 million. A week after Heinz’s vote, the Babeu spent the night at Heinz’s home:

“I’m at Mat Heinz and his boyfriend for dinner & ice cream… we are going out to bar and … to their house. [Am] staying over,” Babeu texted to Jose at 1:04 a.m. last April 2.

Am I missing something? Let me get this straight: the illegal alien felon is the good guy, and the closeted gay is the bad guy? And we’re celebrating this on Box Turtle why?

Oh, right, the closeted gay is a Republican. And a hypocrite. But, for at least right now, it’s still a story of he said/he said, but let’s not let that stop our rush to conclusions.

It’s very plausible that their relationship started with the gay Sheriff thinking his new boyfriend was a legal citizen. (After all, how many relationships start with the question, “Are you a legal resident?”) And later, after their relationship was well underway, THEN the Sheriff learns the truth. And then he’s caught between a rock and hard place: he can do nothing without ruining his life & career if this illegal alien breathes a word publicly.

Which is exactly what this illegal alien did. And now the Sheriff’s life and career are indeed ruined. And the illegal alien is being celebrated, and will probably earn some type of legal status for all this.

The so-called “illegal alien” isn’t illegal. He has a valid visa. The allegation is that Babeu threatened to have “Jose” deported nevertheless. Babeu doesn’t have that authority, but many immigrants — legal or otherwise — don’t know that. But Babeu certainly had the ability, given his national stature on the issue, to make Jose’s visa status subject increased scrutiny, versus Jose keeping Babeu’s secret quiet in exchange for not having to face INS investigators.

The problem isn’t hypocrisy, although I think a case can be made that Babeu is clearly at the line, if not quite over it. The problem is abuse of power.

But I do believe that some can easily make the case can be made for hypocrisy. Quite a number of his supporters here in AZ and elsewhere who are up in arms over anything mex’can will definitely say thay see hypocrisy here. A big old gay, immigrant lovin’ hypocrisy, all the while speaking at CPAC about being a true-blood conservative.

In fact, he did lead a double life. That’s really not the best definition of hypocrisy, but it can come very close for some depending on their point of view.

Illegal immigration is huge problem that needs to to be addressed by both political parties in this country. If the sheriff abused his power threatening a lover, abusing his power, he should face the consequences. The sad thing is that he felt that he had to be in the closet in the first place. This is part of the world in which we live.

“But I do believe that some can easily make the case can be made for hypocrisy. Quite a number of his supporters here in AZ and elsewhere who are up in arms over anything mexâ€™can will definitely say thay see hypocrisy here. A big old gay, immigrant lovinâ€™ hypocrisy, all the while speaking at CPAC about being a true-blood conservative.” – Jim Burroway

The sad reality is that there are both closeted Democrats and Republicans political figures, because they feel that they have to be closeted because of a variety of reasons……… and most are not because of political reasons. It is the way that they were raised. They have a sense of shame in their sexual orientation.

LOL closeted gay men are the biggest sluts, and their sexual hunger always gets to them eventually.

I’m actually appalled someone beyond his 20’s is spending time in adam4adam. What is going on with adults now — it’s as if they refuse to grow the hell up and stop acting like 20 year olds. You’ve lived this long ; you should be better than that.

I cannot help but recognize that were it not for Bebau’s position on immigration issues that this commentary would have been worded differently.

Jim can find his position without my help, but I will withhold presumptions about the truthfulness of the vengeful ex’s statements. History cautions otherwise.

I also do not share the glee of those denouncing Babeu’s closetedness. It appears that his coworkers, associates, and even legislators of the other party were aware of his orientation. And if your closet includes going out to gay bars, then the door is pretty wide open.

And now the voters know as well. I hope that he is correct in assuming that ones orientation will not matter to them. I don’t praise him for not being public sooner. I wish more politicians were.

Nor will I see hypocrisy in simultaneously opposing the unfettered influx of immigrants who refuse to follow the same rules as immigrants from, say, Uganda while also being attracted to persons of Latino ethnicity.

I myself do not think that illegal immigration is benign or that some of the astonishingly stupid demands made by advocates are to be given a moments consideration just because the are on “our side” in some contrived political divide. (as an example – and I’m not making this up – the mayor and police chief of Los Angeles proposed a policy change this month: the impounding of vehicles for driving without license would be unforced against citizens, but illegal immigrants would be exempt.). And yet while my politics are not approved by MECLA my dating history reveals that my attractions (which do not exclude by race) seem to feature Latinos prominently.

We will no doubt hear more. At the moment my impression is that Babue is a cheating jerk, and Jose is vengeful. Perhaps more info will alter those impressions

First of all, I agree that a single man he has a right to have relationship with whom he wishes and that as a politician that should not enter the equation. But, as a gay man who has allined himself up with some of the most far-right gay haters in this state, that is an issue, at least for me.
Timothy, I get you point and know that you will always be a little to the right of me on these issues. But what about the other side? I work on the Mexican border west of Tucson on a regular basis. Talk to the people who are on the front line of this issue: the border patrol and the Tohono O’odham People. There as been a huge increase of border patrol on the border and crossings of illegal persons is at an all time low. But people like this keep attacking the federal govt acting as if they are doing nothing about it. You try walking around the border of southern AZ, it is a rugged place, people are dying every summer out there, its not like putting up a fence in the middle of Tucson trying to stop the flow. This man and the right have raised issues of racism and as political leaders they have a responsibility to unit, not divide our community.
As for the claims of his ex-lover, if they are true then Mr. Babau and his lawyer should be in jail. If not, then the other guy needs to be held accountable.
As for the gay issue, it is Republician leadership that have made being gay an issue, he is in bed with them, I might feel sorry for him if he hadn’t held so close them.

Timothy, thanks for you post. It sheds more light on this situation than any other that has been posted. Apparently the sheriff was not really in the closet but just very low key about his sexual orientation. The race card is being played here by some posters because the sheriff felt it is was his duty to enforce the immigration laws on the books. Illegal immigration is a problem and those that say it is not are pandering to the Latino vote in this country. I don’t know of any other country that has put up with such an illegal immigration problem for so darn long. I would suggest those that do support illegal immigration to attempt to immigrate to Mexico. You will be arrested and put in a very inhospitable Mexican jail and allowed to rot away.

I live in Los Angeles. And what Timothy is saying about ILLEGAL immigration is absolutely true. The advocates of illegal immigrants, exploit issues that have nothing to do with being an illegal immigrant, but to do with being a liability on the street. I got a newsletter from the Police Protective League (law enforcement union), that encourages us to tell Chief Beck our objections to the modification in the car impound law. There are many more laws, restrictions, and requirements of identity and accountability that illegal immigrants REFUSE to abide by. Not only causing major risks and liabilities to the public AND law enforcement, but it’s impossible to investigate effectively.
There are two tiers of enforcement that’s developed, and the law abiding are losing their clout and the system is chaotic and less effective.
I work closer to this situation than any of the other contributors here, and yes, illegal immigrants are an extremely expensive, dangerous PROBLEM and to say otherwise is naive at best, dishonest and dangerous at worst.

I regularly go out on patrols with uniform officers. It’s not a requirement, but it’s a professional courtesy I’m accorded and it’s an important thing to do when it comes to ethical policing too.
And, I’ve worked VERY hard at being able to analyze and intelligently think through the process of applying the right context to each situation regarding police activity and illegal immigration.
Analytical brain, as opposed to emotional brain.

Understand this, my friends: I know that there is a great deal of solidarity in feeling for illegal immigrants by the gay community. Essentially because gay immigrants suffer much injustice in their native countries, but don’t have the same opportunity of asylum, marriage or sponsorship or children as their het counterparts do.
Timothy touched on the fact that there are some serious ethical breaches committed by illegal immigrants that the gay community has no reason to support. In fact, considering the taint of distrust there is of gay citizens, it’s not a smart strategy to side with illegal immigrants so completely, that it looks like gay people have no sense of what ethical behavior is. A stereotype you all know is attached to gay people all the time.
Illegal immigrants have broken a trust, and therefore make ALL immigrants suspect. Which is why deputies like Babeu can make such threats. He’s abusing his office, but illegal immigrants abuse a lot else. They have no rights to do so, they have no right to break laws that ALL legal citizens and residents must abide by.
Being poor is no excuse to rob banks, or one’s neighbor. Neither is that true of breaking the law of driving and car ownership.
Nor the laws identity and accountability.
This isn’t about what’s unfair to ILLEGAL immigrants, and people already proving laws mean nothing to them.
This is UNFAIR to the law abiding who are and can be identified and accountable to who and whatever they do EQUALLY. Illegal immigrants demanding accommodation for whatever they do, corrupts the system from the inside out.
Big difference.
And we can’t be having that. Abuses will go both ways, and those in the middle will be hard pressed to prevent it, or do anything to solve it.
And it’s way past time there was some honesty about that difference.

Regan said “Illegal immigrants have broken a trust, and therefore make ALL immigrants suspect. Which is why deputies like Babeu can make such threats. Heâ€™s abusing his office, but illegal immigrants abuse a lot else. They have no rights to do so, they have no right to break laws that ALL legal citizens and residents must abide by.
Being poor is no excuse to rob banks, or oneâ€™s neighbor. Neither is that true of breaking the law of driving and car ownership.
Nor the laws identity and accountability.”.

While I’m sure some or even many illegal immigrants break every law they can it seems likely to me that many more avoid breaking additional laws in an attempt to avoid drawing attention to themselves and detection. I don’t buy the idea that most illegal immigrants have no concern for laws in general, I’m sure that other than the immigration laws themselves most likely do their best to avoid breaking laws, contact with law enforcement and deportatio – they’re going to follow most laws out of self-interest.

It could well have been a situation in which two people in a soured relationship were exchanging threats and trying to one-up each other in what damage they could do. I, personally, am sickened by Babeu’s alleged actions because, if true, they are an example of exploitation of an immigrant (who is probably legal). His actions have more social weight and are, as a result, exponentially more reprehensible.

There is indeed hypocrisy in Babeu’s actions by his demonization of Latino immigrants on the one hand and his relationship with one on the other. Yes, I believe that anti-immigrant rhetoric is stigmatizing of Latinos (documented, undocumented, Latinos whose families have been in this country for generations alike).

His actions also support the theory that anti-immigrant rhetoric just further stigmatizes immigrants so that they will be a vulnerable underclass to be exploited and used for, say, the purposes of a “discretely” gay sheriff who wants to have dalliances with young men he can control and intimidate into silence while hobnobbing with the most sordid, anti-gay right-wing characters in this country.

If those howling about “immigration” are not generally “anti-immigrant” or anti-Latino, why is it that those interested in immigration “reform” are almost always just interested in punitive immigration laws (for the immigrants mostly), not more liberal laws? If your concern is the simply the law, why not make it easier for people to emigrate legally to the country? Why are those who are opposed “only” to illegal immigration (snark!), rarely talk about the injustice of current U.S. immigration policy?

Why do so many people who are passionate about “illegal immigration” show racial resentment about the proliferation of Latino culture and the Spanish language (and other cultures and languages)? Why do they exaggerate violent crime statistics? Why are they opposed to paths to legal immigration for the undocumented (what are you going to do with the 11 million already here, deport them all)? Why do they exaggerate the tax burden undocumented immigrants impose?

It’s just America’s favorite past-time: racial resentment and pitting ethnic groups against one another. Plus Ã§a change… And people wonder why many LGBTs sympathize with the undocumented. We know what it’s like to be lied about. We know what it’s like to have statistics exaggerated and blown out of proportion to demonize us. And we certainly know what it is like to be used as a political football for right-wing politicians.

Oh, please, Brian, the US is one of the countries with the most lax immigration policies. Even citizenship by birth is an awful mechanism that’s hurting it in the long-run. You get a few illegals to give birth, and in a generation or two you get the case of California where illegal sympathizers can now muscle their way through a vote.

Try immigration in Europe or Scandinavia and get back to me about the US’s horrible immigration policy. Countries have a right to seclude and maintain a cultural identity. Countries have a right into filtering what skills in a person they will allow entry into a country.

Make immigration easier? Why not just get rid of immigration laws, in that case? It’s simple. You break the law on immigration; you get punished. I get pulled over for speeding; I get punished.

Priya Lynn: sorry to say, but you’re wrong. It’s inherent in acting illegally to not want to be caught or draw attention to yourself and what you’ve done.
I didn’t give the bank robbery analogy to say that illegal immigrants rob banks, it was an analogy to illustrate that you can’t commit a crime because of your situation as poor, unqualified to have a driver’s license or other legal standards for identity and accountability. Yet, whenever an illegal immigrant is caught in many felonies that legal residents are all accountable for, we get excuse after excuse about how poor and vulnerable they are.

I can think of many other populations that don’t qualify for driver’s licenses, who also let their car registrations lapse or who are very poor.
Yet, if they decide to defy their legal obligations, they get punished for it.
Illegal immigrants do not deserve exemption from accountability for ANY reason.
Their illegal status is being used as a means of unfair accommodation.
And it IS unfair, GROSSLY so.
In when an immigrant is off the grid of accurate identity and processing, we have NO idea what kind of history they have and what prior activity they’ve engaged in so that the public is better protected.
I mean protected from anything from public health issues like TB and HEP A, to document fraud, voting fraud, banking fraud and violence.
This bullshit “show us your papers”, complaint, is just another excuse to accommodate a lack of identity and accountability.
With identity fraud causing MAJOR crimes and problems in finance, banking and other kinds of victimization, showing a passport, driver’s license or other state issued tamper proof document is imperative.
It’s illegal activity that’s made it impossible to not account for everyone.

And we ARE a nation with limited resources and limited jobs and infrastructure. No one is questioning how an illiterate (even in their first language), unskilled person is supposed to get a viable job with which to support themselves, let alone children?
No one is questioning how we’re supposed to finance and endless river of needy people who actually cannot contribute much, especially if they are off the grid.

Los Angeles, big as it is, came to it’s breaking point years ago. And now more and more of the most vital parts of the infrastructure have been destroyed.
There is already a major problem with deadbeat citizens who are able to get expensive services for children they can’t support, and those of us who are trying to work and care about working (who have skills), are forced to take serious pay cuts and suffer mandatory furlough days.
Of COURSE people are going to be resentful when they see people get unchallenged services, let alone never get questioned as to being qualified for them.
There is lots of cheating and fraud because of it, no doubt that’s committed by citizens and illegal immigrants alike.
But it’s so wrong to not differentiate, and not do anything about it, and allow the problem to grow because of unchecked legal AND illegal immigration.
When we don’t know how many are here, and what they need or what they are doing, efficiency ends. Effectiveness grinds to a halt.

And people are RIGHTFULLY pissed off.
And it’s wrong for anyone to scold them for it. This is righteous anger because this involves abuse of the law abiding and laws others are compelled to live by and are held accountable for.
To see cheating being accommodated, let alone rewarded SHOULD anger any RIGHT thinking person.

It’s also very wrong to blur the lines and pretend there aren’t any differences in illegal immigration as opposed to legal, when there are.

And to everyone else, as I said, I’m a LOT closer to this than most of you. I work on the inside, and rather than shake a fist, clueless at law enforcement, it’s better to be on the inside and know exactly how to monitor what goes on. Especially where it involves minorities or certain ethnic groups.

Anyone ELSE here have access to fraud divisions, major crimes divisions?
Anyone?
I have professional expertise to offer here, not a person opinion. I don’t get emotional here, my analytical brain is hard at work on this and believe me, this problem is a serious cancer.
It’s not a matter of prejudice of any kind against an ethnicity, against a person’s needs or interests, this is strictly about who cheats and who doesn’t and who is held most accountable and who benefits unfairly from cheating and the exponential crimes that come of it.
Period.
It’s a terrible irony that illegal immigrants are treated more like a MODEL group, than gay citizens are.
aren’t identifiable in any way?

That there is more abuse of the Constitution by illegal immigrants, as gay citizens are suffering exclusions from it’s protections.
So I KNOW the government can come down hard on somebody.
The public would rather come down hardest on the accountable citizens (and voting bloc), than those who are none of those things.

There has to be HONEST differentiation from motives, who and what is abused. The results from illegal immigration is not hypothetical, theoretical or conjecture.
The results are proven very negative, dangerous and shouldn’t be accepted. It’s a major problem, and anyone that doesn’t think so is very naive and serving no good, nor their credibility by supporting it.

There have been a few members of the gay community who took my head off calling me a Nazi sympathizer by pointing this out. Especially by pointing out what responsibilities I have to my job. A job, which a good many people cannot do and wouldn’t do because it’s extremely risky, and tough.
And many major crimes (including 9/11) could be prevented or solved, were illegal immigration and the means to effectively track who is here and who they are, it’s the citizens, legal residents and law enforcers who deserve some support in this.

Or else, perhaps you’d rather things implode and some real anti immigrant (because the line between legal and illegal is forced down), vigilantism is more acute because the line between the good and bad of it breaks down completely because you didn’t listen to people like me in the first place.

Lucrece, I’m not interested in comparisons. I’m interested in human rights. I have some thoughts on European immigration policy–especially of nations like the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Spain and Portugal who are living off of the fat and wealth stolen from their former colonies. But we’re not talking about them.

“Countries have a right to seclude and maintain a cultural identity. Countries have a right into filtering what skills in a person they will allow entry into a country.”

Are you saying those huffing about U.S. “culture” being overrun by the brown people have a point, or what? What “cultural identity” does the U.S. need to maintain? I wonder what “culture” that might be (culture as defined by white, Anglo-Saxon Protestants, perhaps)? Who, in an era of globalization and global communication is going to define what U.S. “culture” is? I think this statement is odd coming from (I assume?) an American, who lives in a country that is very culturally diverse. Or are you, like American racists, resentful of that reality as well and wish we could go back to a “simpler” time?

As far as skill-sets are concerned, this economy clearly needs a variety of skill sets, from manual labor to technological skills. The idea that you are going to just isolate some skills here when the demand is clearly high for other workers seems to be a fools errand.

“Itâ€™s simple. You break the law on immigration; I get pulled over for speeding; I get punished”

And I’m sure if the officer just lets you off with a warning, you scream and plead and beg him to give you a ticket because, after all, “the law is the law”! And before you scream, “it’s not the same!” YOU were the one who introduced the simplistic analogy.

The law must also be prudent and fair. Like other disastrous law policies in this country that were flagrantly violated (e.g. the Volstead Act), when this kind of flagrant, systematized, consistent violation takes place, there’s probably something wrong with the law itself. But like the defenders of the Volstead Act, the anti-immigrant crowd insists that the problem is not the bad law, but the enforcement of it. Do Americans ever learn?

Regan, the problem of resources is more complex than just immigrants taking them up. First, immigrants probably don’t take more than they put in. At best, whether they do is disputed strongly by studies on immigrant consumer spending, taxes and resources consumed. Second, do our economic policy makers bear any responsibility for the lack of infrastructure or their spending priorities (say, funding military interventions then shrieking about the debt)? Or is that all the dirty immigrants’ fault?

What you’ve done is called making a scapegoat. I will absolutely scold people for that.

And while I am not in law enforcement, I do think there are serious problems associated with our broken immigration policy. Most people, on many sides of this issue, recognize that the status quo is bad, that it creates a lot of problems, including exploitation and abuse of the undocumented. But there is a distinction between those who want a reformed immigration policy skewed overwhelmingly towards punitive, vindictive laws and those who want to change the laws to be more accommodating so that so many people are not under the radar and unaccountable, as you say.

Getting back to this initial story: This is another nonstory that the mainstream media has completely latched onto. It has conveniently surfaced years after the alleged incident right at the time this guy is running for office and supporting a candidate running for an even bigger office. This is not a story. If he abused his power, he should be disciplined, but I don’t see any solid evidence of that other than his ex’s allegation and his ex’s lawyer mentioning it in a letter, which again, is just an extension of the ex’s allegations. This is a “he said, he said” scenario, and it doesn’t deserve this kind of press until there is some actual evidence.
As for immigration, yes people do need to follow the same rules as everyone else, but like someone else said, I’m tired of the exaggerations and blanket statements. I’m not denying immigrants, both legal and undocumented can come here and commit crimes. I had a rather nasty confrontation with one when I worked at a pharmacy and I caught him shoplifting. He spoke perfect English when he was acting like an arrogant jerk even though he got caught. I later ran into him at local court when I filed a complaint against another thief. For some reason he needed a translator that day, when the judge spoke to him about his offence of driving without a license. Anybody from anywhere can be a dishonest jerk. When are we going to collectively start to blame the business owners and farmers, from independent ones to corporate-owned ones for hiring these people, paying them substandard wages under the table, then firing them when they’re due for a raise , in some cases calling the INS to come collect them, and then escorting the next batch in? If they’re getting benefits without documentation, then end that practice. Why is it the focus is so much on the individuals who have escaped a dangerous third world country to come here, and not the business men and politicians who profit off keeping the system exactly the way it is? If they become documented, then they’re eligible to be on the books, and therefore labor laws have to be followed and they get more protection from exploitation. Then the prison industry will have less people to hold in their cells for unnecessary periods of time because they have no Constitutional right to a speedy trial. By the way, those prisons increase their profits the more people are incarcerated. Is it any wonder the US incarcerates the highest number of people of any nation, many of them because they had some pot on them, but the deadly and addictive drug of alcohol is still perfectly legal.
Things are the way they are because powerful people benefit from it. When slavery was made illegal, sharecropping took its place. This is our modern day answer to these systems. Do I know the answer? No. I don’t know how to force greedy scoundrels to not be greedy. But I can see perfectly well how immigrants are a tool, not only for cheap labor, but to drive a wedge between Americans and to offer them a scapegoat that often can’t defend itself, and to distract them from the fact of the matter that economic policy in this country disproportionately accommodates the very people who made this mess in the first place, and only serves to make the mess worse. Maybe if more companies provided jobs with living wages here in America there would be less immigration and less need for public assistance for citizens. And just so you know, big business benefit greatly from more public spending on government programs. My brother carries around a food stamp card, that is now an electronic debit card, that the state pays a large corporate bank to issue, for example. The more people need food stamps, the more cards the bank gets paid to issue. Ok, I’m done ranting now.

Mocking, dismissing, or disparaging an American culture is every bit as offensive as doing the same about a Mexican culture or French culture or any other culture. Although anti-Americanism has become an accepted attitude among some political ideologies, it is vile.

Additionally, while American culture is not particularly white, certainly not Anglo-Saxon, and only incidentally Protestant, there is no shame in being white, AngloSaxon, Protestant. Here at BTB, bigotry based on race, ethnicity and religion is not welcome.

As you note, there is abuse and advantage taken by all sides. Unfortunately, the current division of the nation into “sides” and the knee-jerk reaction to respond accordingly results in everyone making excuses for one while refusing to assign blame to the other (depending on which side they are on).

And that is exactly how the politicians like it. They can get funds and voters by appealing to the divide and demonizing not only those who hold opposing views but those who even dare question the wisdom of the extremes on their side.

And Americans leap to support their “side”. And now this is so deeply a part of identity at this point that I despair in a reasonable solution – one that prioritizes the needs of the nation rather than the wants of people on either side – ever having a chance.

Regan said “Priya Lynn: sorry to say, but youâ€™re wrong. Itâ€™s inherent in acting illegally to not want to be caught or draw attention to yourself and what youâ€™ve done.”.

That’s what I was saying, I’m not sure where we differ on this. Other than those laws an illegal immigrant must break to remain in a country illegally I’m sure they do their best to follow the remaining laws so as not to draw attention to themselves. For example, the illegal immigrant acting as a house keeper or an agricultural produce picker probably isn’t going to be stealing from their neighbour or going to the bar and getting drunk and rowdy and beating up locals.

It’s like when I was too young to buy alcohol. Normally when driving I had no problem speeding and burning rubber, but when I had alcohol in my car I was particuarly attentive to obeying traffic laws.

I’m not saying I support illegal immigration, just that to paint a picture of them as breaking every possible law they can is no doubt inaccurate.

Regan, I want to add that your impressions are coloured by personal experience. Because you deal with immigrants that have broken all manner of laws it biases your perception and makes you think this is typical of all immigrants. In statistics that’s a biased sample and its not valid to draw conclusions about a population based on such non-random sampling techniques.

I did NOT say that there is anything wrong with being white, Anglo-Saxon and Protestant. You just made that up. I was asking: who would define “cultural identity” in the U.S.? There are/were prominent anti-immigrant thinkers who believe that white, Anglo-Saxon Protestant “values” ARE American culture. See the late Samuel Huntington, for example. That’s what I was referring to. Is *that* the “cultural identity” that nations have the right to “seclude and maintain”? I asked the question because Huntington-types are the ones who talk about “secluding and maintaining” a “cultural identity.”

You can characterize what I said as “mocking, dismissing or disparaging” American culture, I guess. I actually implied that American culture is too diverse to define. But, in saying that American culture is too complex to define, I have also, somehow, in your mind disparaged it.

I did call out some terrible trends in U.S. politics, such as our national past-time of racism. I’m sorry, but I will always say this because the country was, in fact, built on slavery and the extermination of native peoples. Outright white supremacist policies continued until the late 1960s, and de facto racism and racial dog whistling happens to this very day. Racism can be seen in our neighborhoods and our jails. You can call it “disparaging.” I think our history and current de facto racism “mocks” and “disparages” us. It certainly makes a mockery of the democratic traditions the U.S. claims to uphold.

To sum up, your post is a desperate, feeble ad hominem attack that basically called me a bigot after misrepresenting my views.

Especially when he addresses me as an American WASP as opposed to a Venezuelan American of Basque/Sicilian descent.

American culture means maintaining certain social beliefs and methods of communication (like rooting for your own damn US soccer team instead of Mexico when you’re living here). Have you been to Miami, FL? Being bilingual and speaking Spanish is required. In fact, if you don’t speak Spanish in Miami, don’t expect to get a job.

Ballots for the Florida primary were in English, Spanish, and Creole. Here’s a fine solution, from someone who did what was proper: learn the damn language of the country you emigrate to. When I go to study to Denmark, I accept to learn Danish in order to attend the top institution.

I know you love speaking about how Europe is living off the profits of its colonies. Here’s a hint to that petty narrative : every country is living off its past conquests. Some groups in Africa are thriving from a history of squashing their rivals. I won’t even mention the Middle East and Asia, even though the constant crocodile tears people like you shred seem to concentrate on a particular empire.

Seriously, get off the Daily Kos script. It’s not convincing, much less cute. Stop race-baiting to shut down discussion. Speaking of ad hominem when you yourself go suggestion people’s positions on immigration whom you disagree with must stem from racism in order to disqualify them.

If a police officer wanrs me about speeding, when I was indeed speeding, he was WRONG. I should’ve been fined. I was recklessly endangering those around me. His warning was not fair or prudent. It was a corrupt form of discretion in enforcement.

Let’s reverse what is actually happening and have 10 million Americans illegally emigrate into Mexico. Mexico would declare war on the United States. Less than 10 million Germans invaded France in WWII. No other country in the world has such lax immigration laws as the United States. Frankly, I if I was born in Mexico I would want to get the heck out of the cesspool of corruption that is Mexico.

PSâ€¦ Itâ€™ll be interesting to see what, if anything Fox News, specifically, but other mainstream media do with this storyâ€¦

All in all, I thought Fox print media (in this case Fox News Latino) did a pretty good job. Analysis of how it will impact his political career which talks about the nature of his constituents and presents contrasting views about how he will be impacted.

“Charles, the Mexican economy has improved greatly in the last several years. Illegal immigration from Mexico to the States has dropped dramatically the past few years.” – Priya Lynn

The economy in this country has been in the tank for the last couple of years. Have you not heard about this fact? Construction jobs have been especially hard hit and in the past were major employers of illegal aliens.

Yes, I’m aware of that Charles, that’s another reason why illegal immigration into the States has dropped off sharply – most people feel they’re better off in Mexico. Illegal immigration is one of those Republican boogeymen and along with crime one that they use to try to scare voters into voting for them – neither is anywhere near the problem that Republicans would have the public believe.

“Yes, Iâ€™m aware of that Charles, thatâ€™s another reason why illegal immigration into the States has dropped off sharply â€“ most people feel theyâ€™re better off in Mexico. Illegal immigration is one of those Republican boogeymen and along with crime one that they use to try to scare voters into voting for them â€“ neither is anywhere near the problem that Republicans would have the public believe.” Priya Lynn

Excuse me, but no other country in the world would tolerate or should have to tolerate the amount of illegal immigration that is allowed to occur into this country from our southern border. It is a valid political issue that needs to be addressed by both parties. As I earlier said, if 10 million Americans illegally immigrated into Mexico, Mexico would be rightfully outraged.

As far as Mexico declaring war on the States if the roles were reversed, never would happen. Mexico could never dream of taking on the States militarily. If the roles were reversed Mexico would sit back and take it.

“Especially when he addresses me as an American WASP as opposed to a Venezuelan American of Basque/Sicilian descent.”

Nope. I absolutely did not. I asked you, forcefully, if you agreed with â€œclash-of-civilizationsâ€ political philosophy because they are the ones who really fret about defining “culture” as based on “WASP” values and making sure such a definition is policed. I know you and Timothy are determined to read something else into what I said, but really that’s all I said. I still don’t know if you’re in the Huntington camp, but I must say you do see this as an agonistic relationship between native born people and immigrants.

And of course, you didn’t say what “American culture” should look like besides communicating in English and rooting for soccer teams (“certain social beliefs” was very vague).

Iâ€™m sure youâ€™re aware that Puerto Rico is the United States and Puerto Ricans are Americans. As you are also undoubtedly aware, English language facility among Puerto Ricans can vary widely from knowing no Spanish at all among some P.R.s born on the mainland to being barely conversant in English for some on the island. Where do Spanish-speaking Puerto Ricans fit into your American â€œcultureâ€ with its communication?

At any rate, I think it is interesting that for you, immigration is not just about â€œthe law,â€ but imposing boundaries defining what is and is not American â€œcultureâ€ (however you define it, since you didnâ€™t give a real answer).

Now, you are just beside yourself at my suspicion that the demonization of the undocumented is tinged with racism. But then, letâ€™s take a look at your tantrum about language, again.

First, even if your comments about Miami are true and not hyperbole (I saw a lot of non-Spanish speakers with jobs on South Beach–one anecdotal turn deserves another, right?), you seem very resentful of the Spanish speaking population there. Again, your agonistic perspective.

Second, you do realize that most immigrants actually *agree* that they, and especially their children, should learn English, right? But from comments like yours, it just seems like youâ€™re tailing an anti-immigrant trope that says immigrants donâ€™t want to or donâ€™t bother to learn English. Also, most Hispanic immigrants (which would include legal immigrants as well), speak English.

Third, I agree that all immigrants should learn English–because even though most do speak English, a unacceptably high minority do not. But my approach would not be to huff and puff about all the Spanish (and other languages) everywhere, or pass punitive English only laws, but find better ways to educate.

I think our country is enriched by having another language so prevalently spoken. It is nice to be able to reinforce Spanish by just switching on the TV, and having Univision on non-cable broadcast.

As far as Europe is concerned, as I said very clearly in my very first reply to you, I have my thoughts on Europe but we’re talking about the U.S. today. I will engage Europe’s history and your moral equivalency argument if European immigration ever comes up here. Similarly, if South African xenophobia against Zimbabweans and Botswanans comes up here, I’ll talk about their responsibilities or the exploitation of immigrants in the U.A.E. or Saudi Arabia, the same. Of course, the history of these countries is impacted by colonialism as well, so that will come into the picture.

“Charles, I never said the States should tolerate illegal immigration.

As far as Mexico declaring war on the States if the roles were reversed, never would happen. Mexico could never dream of taking on the States militarily. If the roles were reversed Mexico would sit back and take it.” – Priya Lynn

I was speaking metaphorically about Mexico declaring war on the United States. I am frustrated at people like you for saying that Republicans use the illegal immigration issue as a bogeyman issue, when it is a serious problem. I seem to feel that both parties are not doing enough to stem the tide of illegal immigration on our southern border.

It’s not currently a serious problem Charles, its not currrently a problem at all. Of course that could change in the future but at least let us agree to discuss reality as it is.

Republicans are still acting like this is currently a big threat to the U.S. when it is not, it is a Republican boogeyman just like they pretend crime is a serious problem that requires draconian laws when in fact crime rates have dropped substantially over the past decade or two. Its all about scaring people into voting for them.

As far as you “speaking metaphorically” about Mexico declaring war on the U.S., another word for that is exagerating. That’s what you and Republicans have been doing, exagerating.

“…it is a Republican boogeyman just like they pretend crime is a serious problem that requires draconian laws when in fact crime rates have dropped substantially over the past decade or two. Its all about scaring people into voting for them.”

Priya, do you think it’s also related to justifying expanded, increasingly militarized police powers and further erosion of civil liberties? I think both Democrats and Republicans can play that game too.

Hello my friends:
To Priya: no my dear, my work with law enforcement hasn’t colored my opinion and made it a PERSONAL issue. FAR from it, this is about observing FIRST HAND how illegal immigrants exploit a situation to benefit more from it than a citizen would or could.
Why would you call a clear understanding of right and wrong, bias on MY part?
Why would consider my clear observation of who is abusing laws and other people as prejudice on my part or anyone else’s charged with preventing, investigating and adjudicating such behavior?

If you were underage drinking, and while driving a car to AVOID detection and arrest, drove more carefully, that doesn’t excuse the fact that you were breaking another law to avoid being caught.
Your point is very misguided. By thinking that illegal immigrants are otherwise careful not to break other laws, then that makes them less a problem?
Sorry. Very wrong.
Why? Because we’re not only talking about a demographic that hasn’t proven qualified to drive skillfully enough, there is no way to track their backgrounds for other offenses or if they are using their real names or identities.
And when something terrible does happen, there is NO accountability, nor wish to BE accountable. This creates an unworkable chaotic situation with two or three different tiers of enforcement.
Wrong.

And as to BRIAN’s assertions.

When our nation has NO WAY of accounting for who, how many and where they are, then the support needed to be effective and efficient is lost.
There are smaller cities in America being OVERWHELMED by needy populations that need jobs, social services and accommodation some of these communities cannot cover.

Your complaint that our nation’s immigration system is inefficient,and not generous enough well DUH.
Of COURSE it is!
America is the destination of choice for nearly a billion people worldwide. We couldn’t accommodate or assimilate all the people who want to live here in the best of times.
NO immigration system is going to be able to do what every immigrant WANTS or NEEDS to be done.

It’s not personal, it’s not scapegoating, it’s about IMPOSSIBLE numbers and not enough to satisfy that demographic.
In CA, the ‘Dream Act” was passed. This allows illegal immigrant teens to compete for public funds for their college educations.
Well, DAMN.
American citizens and legal residents don’t have dreams of college too?
Those who properly and legally passed all requirements to attend college have to see their benefits for it, taken away by people who DIDN’T?
And tax payers are compelled to PAY for it too?
Wrong.
Wrong.
Wrong.
Jumping the line, benefiting from cheating and gaming the system is the same as those who didn’t?
Morally, ethically wrong.
Especially with the limitations there are for public funding and college places.
And it’s disgraceful to force people to take these demands from illegal immigrants and the treasonous government that allows overwhelming us with it.

Face fact Brian: there will ALWAYS be limits to how many people who immigrate this country can handle.
And it’s imperative to find out if we’re importing massive amounts of needy people who cannot and will not assimilate, nor are compelled to. And it’s imperative to know who might be a danger to the public at large.
Don’t EVEN try to make this about prejudice or scapegoating, make it about exactly what it is.
Public figures breaking their oath of office that requires them to monitor such things, and forcing the public to accept it without challenge even if it endangers a lot more than national security, economy and public trust.

Brain and Priya, when we pass the point of 20 million illegal aliens and then let me know if you think it is a problem. I guess when the illegal aliens and other Latinos ask for reunification with Mexico you might wake up.

In the meantime I will tell my friends who have had car wrecks with illegal aliens that were driving without a license and without insurance that there is no problems with that either.

Regan said “To Priya: no my dear, my work with law enforcement hasnâ€™t colored my opinion and made it a PERSONAL issue. FAR from it, this is about observing FIRST HAND how illegal immigrants exploit a situation to benefit more from it than a citizen would or could.”.

But you see Regan, you only deal with illegal immigrants that have broken the laws beyond illegal immigration. It could be that all illegal immigrants break most non-immigration related laws or it could be that you never encounter those that follow the majority of laws precisely because they are not breaking those laws. You have first hand experience with some illegal immigrants, but not all illegal immigrants so its not valid to say “all illegal immigrants are the same as those I encounter. To say that would be no different than a person working in an STD clinic to say “All gays have STDs because I have first hand experience that proves this.”

Regan said “Why would you call a clear understanding of right and wrong, bias on MY part?”.

I’m not saying you are incorrect about right and wrong, I’m saying that by nature of your job you only encounter a subset of illegal immigrants and therefore it is not statistically valid for you to generalize and say, for example, that the typical illegal immigrant robs banks and steals from their neighbour or commits the same sort of crimes the illegal immigrants you encounter do.

Regan said “Why would consider my clear observation of who is abusing laws and other people as prejudice on my part or anyone elseâ€™s charged with preventing, investigating and adjudicating such behavior?”.

I never said it was prejudice or that your experience was inaccurate, just that your experience is not a random statistically significant sample of illegal immigrants and is therefore not necessarily generalizable to the entire population of illegal immigrants.

Regan said “If you were underage drinking, and while driving a car to AVOID detection and arrest, drove more carefully, that doesnâ€™t excuse the fact that you were breaking another law to avoid being caught.”.

Make no mistake, I wasn’t saying driving more carefully excused the fact that I was breaking the law, my point was merely that when someone is breaking a given law, out of self interest and a desire to avoid detection they will likely be carefull to follow as many other laws as they can so as not to get caught. I’m saying it would be just as unjustified to say with no proof because I was an underage drinker I was also driving recklessly or stealing as it is to say because a person is breaking immigration laws they are also robbing banks and stealing from their neighbours.

Regan said “Your point is very misguided. By thinking that illegal immigrants are otherwise careful not to break other laws, then that makes them less a problem?”.

You’re missing my point. I’m not saying that because illegal immigrants are more careful to not break other laws that this makes them less of a problem, I’m saying let’s not blame them as a group for additional crimes we have no proof they typically commit. Let’s accurately describe the degree to which they are a problem and use that as a basis for addressing it. Just as if you had been there 30+ years ago and wanted to end my underage drinking, stick with defining that as the problem rather than saying for example that I am probably a bank robber as well in order to artifically increase support for fighting my underage drinking. We have an obligation to everyone, including law-breakers, to not make them out to be worse than we know they are.

Charles, let me rephrase what I’m saying. Although there is currently not a serious problem with people illegally immigrating into the United States, I acknowledge that there are likely very large numbers of illegal immigrants currently in the States and that is a signicant problem that needs to be addressed.

I have mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand I find it abhorrent that millions of people dutifully obey the law and wait in line to immigrate legally while others break the law and jump the queue.

On the other hand the United States and Canada were founded by illegal immigrants, everyone on the Mayflower was an illegal immigrant – no one invited them here, no one gave our ancestors permission to live here, they did it by force and disregard for the laws of the original inhabitants of North America. Who is any non-indian Canadian or American to be telling anyone who can or cannot come into North America? Stikes me as one hell of a hypocrisy for any non-indian to think they’ve got a right to decide who gets in and what the culture of North America should be.

“On the other hand the United States and Canada were founded by illegal immigrants, everyone on the Mayflower was an illegal immigrant â€“ no one invited them here, no one gave our ancestors permission to live here, they did it by force and disregard for the laws of the original inhabitants of North America. Who is any non-indian Canadian or American to be telling anyone who can or cannot come into North America? Stikes me as one hell of a hypocrisy for any non-indian to think theyâ€™ve got a right to decide who gets in and what the culture of North America should be.” – Priya Lynn

Those days are long, long past. Wake up. We live in the present. You could make the case that every country on the face of the Earth was made from stolen land. Even the ancient Israelites stole the “Promised Land” by murdering those that lived there before them. Read the story of Joshua.

“Charles, the passage of time doesnâ€™t make a wrong a right.” – Priya Lynn

I give up. Let’s just open our southern border and allow totally unfettered illegal immigration from Mexico other countries. I am sure we can handle at least another 30 million illegals in this country./sarc

* Sheriff Paul Babeu was cleared today of allegedly threatening his ex-boyfriend with deportation to keep their relationship a secret.

* Said the prosecutor today: â€œThere is no indication that he (Babeu) misused any authority or misused public money to harass or intimidate Jose Orozco. As indicated in the agentâ€™s report, Orozcoâ€™s allegations are not supported by the facts.â€

* The boyfriend, Orozco, did indeed turn out to be illegal: he was living here in the USA illegally on an expired visa.

The prosecutors comments above would indicate that Orozco’s truthfulness is in question, and that he may likely have maliciously made up these comments to destroy the Sheriff’s career.

I believe this whole sordid affair serves as a lesson about rushing to judgement. Even a closeted gay, anti-illegal, Republican Sheriff deserves the benefit of the doubt sometimes. :-)

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