Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

The first words out of my husband's mouth to me as I was lazing in bed this morning: "I've got some good news... the Pope is resigning!" And I was momentarily overjoyed, until I realized the only reason cited was "poor health", and not "crisis of conscience" or "taking responsibility for X, Y or Z scandal", etc. (In a perfect world, all the church hierarchy would resign, then get down on their knees in St. Peter's Square, and beg forgiveness for their transgressions. Alas, never gonna happen.)

And yeah, have the mods to change it to "almost". No deluge yet.

Originally Posted by PotVsKtl

See that guy in the background talking loudly about crab cakes? That's you.

Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

The thread title should have been "Raining God's Infallibility" or somesuch. Ratzinger apparently knows better than God. His predecessor couldn't hardly talk or even raise his head and still he pope'd on. This thinly veiled excuse is embarrassing.

I hope whatever bombshell that was brewing that prompted this resignation blows up anyway.

Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

Ratzinger apparently knows better than God. His predecessor couldn't hardly talk or even raise his head and still he pope'd on. This thinly veiled excuse is embarrassing.

I hope whatever bombshell that was brewing that prompted this resignation blows up anyway.

I'm not saying that there isn't some big scandal that they're trying to keep under wraps but I'd consider having a leader who can't raise his head a bad thing. JPII reigned for a long time and was loved; Benedict XVI has been there less than 8 years and hasn't been all that popular.

Benedict has also lived longer than John Paul and is the oldest Pope since Leo XIII who died in 1903 at 93. Only two other Popes since 1400 have lived to be older than 85 (so 3 of 62).

It's not a terrible idea to set a precedent for having your spiritual leader be functional.

Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

The last pope to resign, Gregory XII, did so in 1415, 10 years into his tenure, in the midst of a leadership crisis in the church known as the Great Western Schism. Three rival popes had been selected by separate factions of the church, and a group of bishops called the Council of Constance were trying to heal the schism. In an interview with Vatican Radio, Donald S. Prudlo, a papal historian at Jacksonville State University in Jacksonville, Ala., said that Gregory XII offered to resign so that the council could choose a new pope that all factions would recognize. It took two years after Gregory XIIís departure to elect his successor, Martin V.

Other popes known to have resigned:

Pope Celestine V: A recluse who only reluctantly accepted his election in 1294, Celestine V resigned and fled the Vatican after just three months to wander in the mountains. According to a history timeline on Christianity.com, the bishop who became his successor, Boniface VIII, was intent on ensuring that Celestine V did not become an example for future popes, and ordered Celestine V seized and imprisoned as he was about to sail to Greece. He died in custody in 1296 at the age of 81, and was declared a saint in 1313.

Benedict IX: One of the youngest popes, he was elected at the age of 23 in 1035, and became notorious for licentious behavior and for selling the papacy to his godfather, Gregory VI, and then twice reclaiming the position; he finally resigned for good in 1045, at the age of 33.

Gregory VI: Considered a man of great reputation, Gregory VI had thought Benedict IX unworthy of the papacy, and essentially bribed him to resign. He was recognized as pope in Benedictís stead, but when Benedictís attempt at marriage failed and he wanted to return to the papacy, a power struggle ensued. A council of bishops called upon Gregory VI to resign after less than two years in office because he had obtained the papacy through bribery.

By contrast, the resignation of Benedict XVI after an eight-year tenure will essentially be a retirement at the age of 85, after the pope showed increasingly public signs of fatigue in recent months. His last day as pope will be Feb. 28, coincidentally the feast day of a revered fifth-century pope, Saint Hilarius.

They locked one pope up after he resigned then made him a saint 17 years after he died in prison

Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

Re: It's raining nazi youth that wears a funny hat

Originally Posted by mountmccabe

I'm not saying that there isn't some big scandal that they're trying to keep under wraps but I'd consider having a leader who can't raise his head a bad thing. JPII reigned for a long time and was loved; Benedict XVI has been there less than 8 years and hasn't been all that popular.

Benedict has also lived longer than John Paul and is the oldest Pope since Leo XIII who died in 1903 at 93. Only two other Popes since 1400 have lived to be older than 85 (so 3 of 62).

It's not a terrible idea to set a precedent for having your spiritual leader be functional.

Fair point, but I think if you compare human life expectancy growth over the timeframe that we've had popes, and especially over the last hundred or so years, 85 is probably a bit younger in terms of physical condition than a great many more of those popes than the 3 in 62 percentage based on pure number. Especially considering that the Pope is probably on the bleeding edge of medical care.

So I agree it's probably better they have a vigorous popular pope than a sad old tired one, but I doubt this decision was primarily his own.
Even if it's not a brewing scandal, he was probably being pushed out for the existing ones and a general decline in growth in the church.
This idea that God chose Ratzinger, then a few years later told him he changed his mind is a no sale.