Hi All,for many years I've wondered and asked and been asked this question. then the ? about what is validating the zodiacal arrangement in use.Why? What can we say to that science minded inquiry to explain astrologers' choice of use?Is Aries, an early fall birth in, lets say southern Chile going to be exactly archetypely to the aries, early spring birth in Canada- as we understand it in EA now? Did I miss where this has already been written about somewheres out there.

This is a very good question, and one that I too have had a really hard time with myself... How can a tropical zodiac (based on the seasonal cycles of the northern hemisphere) possibly have the same archetypal symbolism in the southern hemisphere???

The ONLY explanation I've come up with so far (having never been to the southern hemisphere to observe this directly, nor seen or worked with any birth charts from that half of the planet) would be that since EVERYTHING operates via polarity (i.e. Aries can only have meaning relative to Libra, etc.) then perhaps the chart and all of its symbols would have to be interpreted through the lens of their polarities? But this is only a speculation.

It certainly does not seem correct to interpret Aries (for example), as the beginning of a new cycle for someone born in the southern hemisphere, since all life in that region would be experiencing it as a returning phase of the seasonal cycle.

This is a very difficult question and I too would like to see if there are others who would have an explanation for it...

Several years ago I had wondered about the same....as for me my solution was the realisation that on the one hand the symbolism and it's correlation to the natural season cycles is BUT ANALOGUOUS not necessarily direct....on the other hand the souther hemisphere isn't the 'opposite' in effect at best it is a mirror effect....which is different of course...projecting that onto the chart it means that the left and the right will NOT BE the same when we mirror something....so we can not just simply consider the opposite signs or houses etc....

I lived in Australia and studied charts with southern hemisphere born people....I found that the chart drawing method is actually working DISREGARD of the opposite seasons and the fact that the sunshine comes from the NORTH there and not from the south..while east and west (relative to the sun's passage) holds the same value......it comes from the east but goes to the north instead of the south....then goes down towards the west....so it's a mirror effect not the 'opposite'....we are looking at the same phenomena but from the other side of the 'mirror'....

Anyhow, according to my experience as for chart interpretation using the symbolism as we use in the northern hemisphere it works the same there......aries is a new beginning and so on....

I really can not say why exactly.........it just does .....all I can think is just that: an ANALOGUE is only a helping tool and NOT the real reason.... it just helps us to understand someting ...it happens to be analogous in some ways to the northern hemisphere seasons.....the cycles do happen in the sothern hemisphere in a funny mirror kind of way...so the underlying rule applies while the timing is the opposite as for the actual seasons.....

But there is far more than that: even the sky and the view of the sun and moon and the planets and stars are different in the south.......Yet what we need to keep in mind is that the sun looking at it from Earth will be in the sign of taurus no regards if it is spring or autumn on the particular hemisphere.....

The human understanding of taurus for example connected to spring is just AN ANALOUGE...just a helping tool.......not the reason...like the analogue between the wave and the soul and the ocean and the source is not dependent on the physical ocean and it's waves...it just happen to help us to understand something which is abstract and conceptual via something which is tangible.........it's not equal it is just somewhat similar.....

The concenpt will be true even if ice age will come and we will see no more wave ever again.....

Lia,thanks for taking time to discuss this. That is great that you actually were practicing in Australia.So, the twelve equal signs that surround the planet are always aligned with the axis such that when the north pole points to the sun, we are at 0 degrees cancer.My question for you,or anyone with southern hemisphere living is:

Is there a different feel to, let's say 'middle spring' down under?-where the scorpio archetype would still apply to the sun's positioning around the planet for the whole planet? Did you ever notice such "sensings" or "feelings" to the seasons such that they took on a different twist then the same season in the northern hemisphere? Does early fall 'feel' like the 'new beginings' that early spring does for us? And does the spring equinox down under carry the librian archetypal qualities of extremes such that as we understand libria's need to bring things into a balance?

Today I didn't have to go to work so for a change I have a little time...but not for long:-(Anyhow, as for your question, really I can only answer it from my own point of view and share my experience...for somebody else’s experience can be very very different of course...

What I mean is that we are fundamentally subjective beings......as for me, first I have an extremely sensitive perception on the physical/biological level too, second I was born and raised in europe, so on the northern hemisphere and arrived to australia as a young adult...lived there more than a decade....

This is important form the point of view of CONDITIONING not only social but also biological so to speak......for there is a biological conditioning from birth onward, as we get use to the physical world around us and the interaction of that world with our body.....as we perceive and settle into the world we’re born into makes us believe that this is the 'world' what we perceive......that is what becomes 'normal' for us so to speak.......whereever we happen to be born......so that world causes changes interaction etc. in our body level as well as in consciousness.....so the imprint and what we consider the ‘world’ is actually a particular spot on earth and we are looking at everything else from that point of view...compare it to that if we get to see something else......simply because that's what we are use to....this is true for cultures as well but far not only....most people I found isn’t as sensitive to these differences than I am and doesn’t mean as much to them....for me the world of colors, the sky, light, the plants, trees, clouds etc. etc. is a vital part of the whole lot so to speak...we all have different focus......for me theese things are a huge parat of ‘my reality’ and how I feel about the world around me....also something can be beautiful and still doesn’t resonate with us, if you know what I mean.........

When I arrived to Down Under I was SHOCKED deep within on an unconscious biological level within my body.....the incredible DIFFERENCE of the whole world (oh well relative to what I perceived before as the 'world' of course) around me stunned me. I couldn’t take my eyes away from the sky...the nature of the LIGHT itself is fundamentally different at any time at any season....the light of the sun has a totally different COLOR...then the angle of the sunlight is different as well at any time of the day (compare to the northern hemisphere) and because of this ALL the colours are different ...brighter, sharper.....because the nature of the light...the atmosphere is different, not only by color but by visible thickness...it is narrower....it was in Australia when I first FELT it on the basic body level that we actually are spinning in a black ’nothingness’ and our world is a total illusion in effect:-) simply getting off the plan and looking around shuck me with that bodily felt realisation.....that it’s not a notion it is a simple fact we just so use to ignoring it....we are blessedly soaked in the spread light of our planet’s atmosphere...it is one thing to know it intellectually and another thing to actually all of a sudden see it and feel it in your bones.......

For me looking around seeing and sensing the vibration, the different sky, the different clouds light etc. brought that deep body level realisation (it was not fully conscious at first it started from my cells so to speak until it reached my consciousness and I could put it in words later) but it did happen right away and it scared me to be honest:-) It took time to understand what actually happened and what scared me....it was just that whether I liked it or not I realised that everything that I considered and perceived the ‘world’ is nothing but a total illusion in essence....well a bit more than illusion it is an ASPECT of the infinite...but only one particular tiny miny insignificant aspect and certainly not the ‘world’ as it really is.....my consciousness has the trick to expand in unexpected sudden ways when something triggers it and the ways it does this can freak the heck out of my human brain and body...

Anyhow, as for the seasons and their vibration: no it is not the same that’s all I can say....of course the spring is spring etc.......and yet no it is not the same....well you also need to consider another aspect of this: from the southern hemisphere you are closer to the sun when it is summer and farther when it is winter...so the opposite to the northern hemisphere....you kind of ‘see’ the sun and the moon from a different angle so you see a ‘new’ never seen sun and moon...relative to what you can from the north....

All this adds to that vibrational difference....point being it is NOT better or worst it is simply what one use to ....I was use to the northern hemisphere and had no idea that such subtle or not so subtle difference existed in these ways....so for me it was a shock at first for I perceived it right away all at once.....which forever changed my perception of the ‘world’ as a human being....and made me appreciate it more with all it’s miracles and blessed embrace in light....seeing ‘through’ that thinner atmosphere out to the blackness of space made me understand that we are in a ‘womb’ so to speak...and made me realise that any point of time all this might as well just goes away...it is a miracle that it doesn’t and has been revolving as it does for so long.....that the divine intervention is so so obvious we are literally and visibly enwrapped in unending miracles all the times - we are just so use to it so we can’t see the obvious....

All this may not answer your question the way you meant it I realise:-) but again what I can say is just that libra HAS LITTLE to do with the northern hemisphere’s season that is kind of ‘attached’ to it within our human understanding.....Balance and extremes can happen in autumn as well as in spring and even where there are no or very little seasons by nature......think about the equator and the poles.....if you listened to the EA archetypes it explains them differently leaving the seasons alone for the most part.......you see I think the opposite happened here, instead of sensing scorpio for example, it is the autumn that has been sensed and then scorpio has been attached to it for explanation....But if you change that back to the right order, you can find infinite OTHER ways to explain scorpio ....

Like the explanation of what we call god, has nothing to do with being a ‘male‘ or a father...yet the identification with one particular explanation has skewed the view and poisoned the essence of what the notion actually means what has been attempted to explain by that particular example...the example is never the ‘thing‘...it is just one way (out of many!) to approach or explain something .....

Same way, like I identified the ‘world’ with my own perception of it......but was thrown out of that perception once I realised that my perception was simply based on my conditioning, my experience and limited perception of that ‘world’ from one particular point of view.........all it took is just to happening upon the southern hemisphere after I was brought up in the north to realise this.....no the world is not how I perceive it, it is just my perception that fooled me and I mixed that with the ‘world’ itself.......

Just wanted to add a comment about this topic, which seems very interesting to me, as I live in the south (Chile). Indeed, it is very significant that, though it appears that astrology as we know it originated in the north, very likely in India, its symbolism is not only valid in the southern hemisphere, but appears to specially fit the southern reality at certain levels, as Lia pointed out. As regards the symbolism of Libra, it would seem to be, at a certain level, more in tune with what happens in springtime: the meeting of sexes, flowering, selection of couples (Libra) for reproduction (Scorpio), and all the aesthetic and even “romantic” implications arising from the fact that sexual reproduction requires an “other”, an equal, ie. an individual from the same species, that while instinctively prepared to mating, will not mate the first interested coming forward but, because of selection required for survival of the species, has to be somehow followed and “conquered”. I guess you would agree that flowers, birds singing, and butterflies, do not resemble much of the image of Aries, the warrior, but can be easily associated with the archetype of Libra, even at a very popular level. Further, the same symbolism is implied in the full phase and the 180° aspect, ie. Libra, as described by JWG: socialization of individual purpose, need of other(s) to fulfill oneself through relationships, going out of subjective existence, meeting opposing forces outside the self to reach a state of balance, cooperation or clash of wills, and objectivity. Rudhyar considers the 180° culminating the first hemicycle and initiating the second, a complete process of subjective development leading to a “flowering”, ie. opening the self to a fecundation through social interaction that will produce a fruit and then a new seed at the end of the second hemicycle. Obvious springtime symbolism implied. So, at least for me, the question would be why is much symbolism of springtime associated to a northern autumn sign? Why is a sign whose symbols are more connected to the melting of the ices and going out not to be alone but to find others, to communicate with others, placed at the beginning of northern autumn? I myself do not have the answer to that question, though I feel that, while some systems of symbolism and arrangements tend to reflect a local reality or operate at different levels of the archetypes, the symbols of astrology operate at the level of the planet. I think, though entering into some speculation, this can be seen in the fact that european expansion in the XV century occurred in the direction where the Sun sets, ie. occident, Libra. Though not produced up to date and giving proof of the levels of ignorance and cruelty of which humans are capable (specially the humans that came to America…), the purpose of said expansion, seen at the level of the planet, was the meeting of others and integration necessary to produce, later, a planetary consciousness allowing for a further integration of humanity as a part of the galactic community, as JWG points out, in a time frame when there will be peace on Earth, a time when balance, justice and harmony, ie. libran ideals, will prevail on the planet.

Libra, the cardinal direction where the Sun sets, was considered in traditional astrology as the sign where the Sun is in its fall, ie. where subjective consciousness lowers its self-centeredness in order to relate to others having their own independent self-centered focus of consciousness, ie. their own “Suns”, as necessary for integration and cooperation to occur. And that is what happens in springtime, ie. in mating, when receptivity to the other is required to attain receptivity from the other, when though taking the initiative, the masculine places itself below the feminine principle (as the I ching would say), when the other has to be followed and awaited as a means to attain what is desired from the other, even when a risk exists to lose individuality.

Lia and Gonzalo,Thank you again for posting on this. Lia, while you didn't exactly go the heart of my question, what you bring up is, in my view, essential to be keeping a knowing of in our consciousness. Beautifully stated and told, it even transported me to another place on the earth. Certainly, Geo-centric takes on more meaning than we know.Gonzalo, I love that you question us in the northern parts applying the seasons to the signs when it appears the opposite from your perspective. It is becoming increasingly clear that the 12 equal sign zodiac, which we refer to as the "tropical western zodiac" is essentially an equal 12 fold division of an energy field that surrounds the planet lined up with the axis such that 0 degrees cancer begins when the sun shines most directly on the north pole, regardless of ones locality on the planet. This solves the ? the what to do near the equator if one did plan to flip the zodiac for north and south. This is so exciting personally to reach this point of understanding. Gonzalo, I believe we could go though each season and pick out what we have "put" onto the sign that occurs with that season relative to our locality. This even gives me more passion for Rad's approach to the Practice Charts, because w/out signs involved we are (perhaps unconsciously) "forced" out of our locality and go into applying only core archetypes-and it is truely amazing how far we can go with just that.

One other point is that when one "googles" the zodiacs, we do not see much in core foundational support for our so called "western tropical zodiac". And, in fact, it appears to be quickly criticized by those who do not, like us, embrace the holographic approach to reality-as above, so below. Many young astrologers never reach a deep understanding of the difference between the three common zodiacs.My first moments as an astrologer were asking "why twelve signs?" "why 12 houses?" "why 360 degrees?" Certainly, beyond a shadow of doubt, I know that EA and astrology on the whole is so real, but still when new students are not taught the foundation of why we use this zodiac and how it applies to the planet as a whole, we loose folks. I believe we have some loose ends to tie together and this dialogue, in my perspective, certainly takes steps in that direction. I'd plan to reply in the future with connections of libra to my local "early fall" experience and continue on around the ring, if you are up for it?

I too would like to say thank you to everyone for the responses to this question, but have also still found myself contemplating a more technical answer to some of the scientific aspects of the question…

It seems that the technical answer to the question Bradley had stated in his original post, (i.e. "What can we say to the science minded inquiry to explain this"), is that each archetype is actually an "axis of symmetrical energy" that is directly connected and inseparable from its opposite sign and house.

If we go around the zodiac and look at each axis, it's very interesting to note that what we tend to think of as a "polarity" is actually not a polarity at all. For a polarity of energy to exist, there must be both positive and negative fields, there must be opposites. The "energy" of the signs and houses are not opposed to each other. They are in fact an axis of linear energy connected directly through one another. For example, Aries is energy moving out from the center, it is masculine, and it is cardinal. Libra is also cardinal, masculine, energy moving out from the center. They are symmetrically connected, not diametrically opposed or separate from one another. Rather like the immense streams or jets of energy/matter that we see being ejected from the center of super-massive black holes.

It seems that we must not confuse the axis of each archetype (Aries-Libra) with the "relationship" or "phase" between two celestial bodies (Sun-Moon). When we're talking about an archetype in and of itself, we're not talking about an aspect or phase between two planets, we're talking about a symmetrical axis of energy. Therefore, when we're looking at an archetype in the northern or southern hemisphere, it really makes no difference because it's not a matter of opposite relationships at all, it's a reference point (or more precisely a reference axis). The energy of spring equinox in the northern hemisphere (Aries) occurs simultaneously with the energy of autumn equinox (Libra) in the southern hemisphere, but the symbolism of BOTH are simply carried through the Aries-Libra axis and are mutually reflective of one another. This, at the very least, seems to makes sense to me… Any thoughts?

In response to all the above posts, I wanted to add where I was at with all this.For the past few years, I had come to this conclusion that "the signs are the seasons"but now.... Now, I do not say this. It is apparent that there are 12 core archetypes. Yes, while I agree with Greg's discussion of the polarities, I also would take the stance that aries is not libra, that they are opposites-true to the meaning of opposites. From this perspective, it appears that each human, from their individual locality, attaches their experience of the seasons onto the archetype coinciding with that time of year(for that place on earth). Also, if all this is true, there is no longer a question of what to do with equitorial charts or a chart from north or south hemisphere. This all leads to reaching the journey of truely understanding the core/bottom line of the archetypes and diciphering our projections(subjective) onto them.

Having said this, and in response to Gonzalo's discussion of Libra and early spring(thanks again), I have, from my subjective Northern Hemispherian reality seen Libra in our early fall with ties to the following:Following Harvest Season(late summer/northern hem. virgo) we have to make decisions as we journey into fall and winter. the harvest is "put into the scales" and we have to (historically in a more survival based reality) strive to achieve a balance with the resources that we have and decide how to store and how to ration what this season's harvest is. As the cold and darkness comes on, nature display's her beauty in the colors that surround us. It is a very romantic time when couples come together or reunite and snuggle up. Well, that's all for now, gotta go.

Thank you for your posts, and I do think you are dealing with very fascinating topics, though going far beyond my actual knowledge and intuitive abilities. I am open to and interested in your further posting on these subjects, though, I am not sure whether I will be able to follow you.

As I view it, in order to understand the symbolic meaning of primary directions of space, ie. cardinal signs, it is necessary to consider how they were generated in first place. Following Wilhelm’s Reich thoughts in Cosmic Superimposition, the rotation movement of planets, stars and galaxies, and that of their planes determining revolution of bodies in their orbits was generated by the composite effect of cosmic orgone currents involved in formation of same bodies, just in the same way that confluence of wind currents under certain conditions determine the formation of a tornado having an spiral movement. This is what Reich postulated based mostly in observation of tornadoes and aurorae.

Later, rotation of a body or plane in space generates an axis for the said rotation, while at the same time electromagnetic laws determine a flow of energy in the direction of the north pole generated in same axis. Thus, four directions are produced: first two directions corresponding to the direction towards which the body beginning to rotate is beginning to rotate; and the direction left behind by rotation or contrary to rotation, ie. the direction from where the force causing rotation is coming from. Second, the directions determined by the axis: North pole being the direction towards which electromagnetic flow occurs, and South pole, the opposite direction along the axis of rotation (of the body in space or of the plane). Further, there is symbolism connected to said directions in space, the direction of rotation of the plane corresponding to what comes next, ie. the future (or the new day, orient, as seen from Earth), the direction left behind corresponding to the past but also to the direction from where the force creating rotation came from (I speculate this is why the Lakota arrangement of directions in their sacred Inipi places fire, ancestors and the Great Spirit, on the West, ie. occident); North corresponding to the direction where flow of energy generated locally at the level of the plane goes and “ascends”, and South, the descending point from where same local energy originates though is yet unformed (this implying the symbolism of water and clay in the creation of the human form, ie. Adam). All this corresponds to directions of movement, which, later, were translated to points in the ecliptic, of course determined by same movement: the points where Earth revolution around the star reaches its northest and southest ponts, ie. solstices, and then the equinoxes. While all planets in our solar system revolve in the same direction, ie. counterclockwise motion as seen from the north pole, most of them also rotate in the same direction, except for Venus, which rotates in a direction opposite to that of her revolution. This fact correlates with the role of the law of relationship, ie. that the act of Creation put in motion the illusion of separateness, though, having the purpose of returning to the Source, through relationships allowing an increasing dissipation of the illusion of separateness. I guess it is also one reason why Ibn-Arabi stated that time, ie. manifested Creation as seen from our local reality, started in Libra (also correlating with the breaking of equilibrium existing before manifestation, and at the end of the same story).

Also, while there are certain differences between directions in space, signs and houses, and aspects, electromagnetic principles of rotating bodies serve to view a connection between them. As regards the question why twelve archetypes, there are also other systems considering less, or more of them. The Octopos, and also the eight primary phases as described by JWG, consider eight. Perhaps you can divide the chart in eight sectors, or in four, maybe also in three, and it could be read that way. It seems that division by eight is more attuned with electromagnetism, ie. points of increased tension in circular movement. I understand that the twelvefold arrangement originates in multiplying the four primary directions by the three moments of Spirit, ie. past, future and the intermediate state or present. Thus, it would be metaphysical in its origin.

Gonzalo, thanks for that reply. Now that knowledge is a bit beyond my understanding, but I get the basics.The circle alone divides itself by 12 perfectly. The seven circles or "seed of life" or "flower of life" pattern clearly shows that the very nature of a circle is 12-with 6 yin and 6 yang alternating energy phases. This archetypal geometric pattern of the seven circles could be easily drawn in mud on a river bank with a Y-branch-since you only need a fixed radius to create.So, in my opinion, the best support we have for this 12 phase zodiac is the circle itself.And, therefore, circle, in a universal sense, would have a holographic 12 phase energy pattern to its cylce.While we are talking about the third dimension(spheres/planets), it is the intersection of the solar plane with the planet that creates a circle in space/time-so any sphere intersected by a plane in space/time could be said to have a relationship to that plane based on the nature of the circle..and that circle would be divided into 12 energy phases. This is my own understanding of our use for a 12 sign zodiac; in the case of the so called "western tropical zodiac" we are actually talking about a energy field of 12 equal phases directly surrounding the planet.To illustrate this point, one could create a model of the solar system based on Bode's Law, use the helio-centric ephemeris to set up the planets and then proceed to pull a string from the center of the earth position to see that the "sign" is based on the spacial relationship of the other planet to our planets orientation of the axis.

I have been thinking about your reply and the beautiful symbolism of the flower of life, with which I am not familiar ... I can see that the twelvefold division of the zodiac is clearly reflected there ... it seems that the same question rises in considering how such symbol is generated, ie. how can "three" be produced at the manifested creation operating through law of polarity, ie. by twofold division ... through division from one in the origin we can only get two, four, eight, etc. .... unless of course, as it is the case, three is implied in one from the beginning, ie. before creation manifests .... it would seem to me that from the point of view of the flower of life or of the seed of life such fact or principle is contained at the level of the vescica piscis, ie. not surprisingly, the pisces gliph ... ie. how God had to Love Himself as somehow different from Himself since before the act of manifesting creation, such Love defining its own Self-relatedness to Himself in state of becoming .... and how such self-relatedness is the "model" for His relationship with the creation He later "decided" to manifest ...otherwise, we would not be able to extract the "three" which is needed to get twelve ... any insights on how this works? ... this sounds very speculative to me ... however, got the feeling that this may be relevant to understand a most important element in the EA paradigm, ie. the relation between law of polarity and law of trinity, and how they are reflected in a planet's polarity point versus same plane as connected to it's nodal axis ... wish you have further feedback on this, and thank you very much for your previous posting ...

Gonzalo,It is great to see you are still studying EA.Blessings on your transition.After reflecting on this more, I realize this thread is not specifically about Jeffery Wolf Green's EA.If you wish to continue our dialogue outside of the MB, please send me a message.

I have been thinking about your reply and the beautiful symbolism of the flower of life, with which I am not familiar ... I can see that the twelvefold division of the zodiac is clearly reflected there ... it seems that the same question rises in considering how such symbol is generated, ie. how can "three" be produced at the manifested creation operating through law of polarity, ie. by twofold division ... through division from one in the origin we can only get two, four, eight, etc. .... unless of course, as it is the case, three is implied in one from the beginning, ie. before creation manifests .... it would seem to me that from the point of view of the flower of life or of the seed of life such fact or principle is contained at the level of the vescica piscis, ie. not surprisingly, the pisces gliph ... ie. how God had to Love Himself as somehow different from Himself since before the act of manifesting creation, such Love defining its own Self-relatedness to Himself in state of becoming .... and how such self-relatedness is the "model" for His relationship with the creation He later "decided" to manifest ...otherwise, we would not be able to extract the "three" which is needed to get twelve ... any insights on how this works? ... this sounds very speculative to me ... however, got the feeling that this may be relevant to understand a most important element in the EA paradigm, ie. the relation between law of polarity and law of trinity, and how they are reflected in a planet's polarity point versus same plane as connected to it's nodal axis ... wish you have further feedback on this, and thank you very much for your previous posting ...

God Bless,

gonzalo.

Let me try to answer your concern/ question because the natural law of the trinity does apply to EA. Very simply when one combines with another one we have three. A simple example would be sperm and ovum. When they combine they produce a brand new organism. And of course the number three is the root number for all advanced math. It is in the union, combining, of the singular one's that then produces three. Union thus becomes the causative factor, or determinant, of evolution itself: genetic evolution through the RNA and DNA of all living organisms. Through this natural law we then can see, via the EA paradigm, and existing state of evolution as symbolized in the natal position of Pluto, it's polarity point that is then united with, which in turn allows for an evolution of the existing state of evolution relative the the natal position of that Pluto. Same thing as applied to the existing S.Node of the Moon, it's N.Node, that thus evolves the S.Node itself.

Thank you so much Rad, again, for your insightful feedback ... so, based on this, when the operative dynamic is that of "skipped steps", instead of embracing the polarity point and integrating the opposing archetypes of the nodal axis one would "jump" from one archetype to the other ... this causing these archetypes to operate as non-integrated dynamics alternating in time .... each one of them tending to induce crisis connected with the planet at the square ... planet which would also be connected in first place with the cause, circumstances or experiences which occasioned the disassociation between archetypes at the opposition ... those crisis would be "crisis in action" as connected with one of the nodes and "crisis in consciousness" as connected with the other node.