I'm the one that called it the AHA while typing. I don't know what West was calling it, and the article that I'm trying to find referenced the passed Obamacare MONSTROSITY.

Sidenote: we got our Healthcare choices today through Anthem Bluecross Blueshield and our premiums have gone us 55% for an employee, and higher yet for spouse and then 57% for employee plus family.

So far this isn't proving to be affordable at all

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

October 21st, 2013, 6:37 pm

LionsFan4Life

Fired Head Coach (0-16 record)

Joined: October 30th, 2004, 12:30 pmPosts: 2205Location: Austin, TX

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

I'm the one that called it the AHA while typing. I don't know what West was calling it, and the article that I'm trying to find referenced the passed Obamacare MONSTROSITY.

Sidenote: we got our Healthcare choices today through Anthem Bluecross Blueshield and our premiums have gone us 55% for an employee, and higher yet for spouse and then 57% for employee plus family.

So far this isn't proving to be affordable at all

I just wanted to say, that while I work for a major coporation here in the states... my insurance rates go up every year for me and my 2 kids that I have on it.. like drastically goes up every year... so as sad it may be.. I'm kind of used to it. Also, I am a healthy mid-30s guy with no major health issues.

_________________

NEVER GIVE UP!

October 22nd, 2013, 8:31 am

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2862

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

What you guys just posted is exactly the point.

Healthcare costs are out of control. The status quo is not sustainable. Obamacare isn't the answer, but I can't stand conservatives who pretend that there isn't a problem and we can just stick with the current system (or make very slighty adjustments). The system is broken and needs an overhaul.

This is the first time that I've visited this site since my previous post, so there is much to discuss.

First, Wags has proven yet again that he is a useful idiot that lacks the comprehension or logic skills to fully understand what I post. It's one of the reasons I am no longer a regular poster here, but I will attempt to educate him a bit.

Just like liberalism and conservatism have become dynamic terms over the years, so too has socialism and communism. So too, has fascism, which is more left wing (government control) than right wing (nationalism). Hell, the Nazi Party translates into English as the National Socialist German Workers' Party. Since when has socialism had anything to do with the right wing? There goes the left wing's talking point to anyone who believes the propaganda spun by the media.

As for the "pure" definition of socialism and communism being government ownership of the means of production, that has morphed into government control of the means of production via regulation, law, executive fiat, corruption, intimidation, extortion, bribery, kickbacks, paybacks, and special interest favoritism. If you don't agree with this, return to your rabbit hole, Alice, where wonderland suggests that the world will be just like we envision it should be.

The truth is that extreme left liberalism (socialism. communism, Marxism) has failed miserably everywhere it has been tried throughout the history of the world. The truth is that government is incompetent and can't do anything better than the private sector does. The reason is because of human nature and the fact that the success of the private sector is determined by actually making a profit rather than stealing more money from the taxpayers via higher taxes or accumulating more debt. You see, one system works, while the other doesn't.

Now, a hypocritical libtard will start an argument about demographics, geography, history, etc. But I'll give you East and West Germany, and North and South Korea. Which ones prospered and which ones led their people to destitution and poverty? I rest my case.

More importantly, if one were to look at the platforms of the Democratic Socialists and the Social Democrats in Europe, they would find that they are nearly identical to those of the current Democratic Party in the US. The only major difference is that the Europeans refer to themselves as Socialists, while the US Democrats refuse to do so. Wake up, Wags.

Getting back to Obamacare, doesn't anyone else find it funny that atleast two people in the media have been threatened by members of the Obama Administration to stop reporting on the Obamacare trainwreck? Bob Beckel, one of the few liberals on Fox News is one, and the other was from CNN. It took courage for them to speak out on the air about it, but how many others are too frightened to speak? How's that freedom of the press working out for you? I've heard about this happening in the past over Fast & Furious, and Bengazi, but the rest of the lamestream media keeps silent over the issue. Where's that so-called "transparency" when you need it?

I probably ought to bump up the original Obamacare thread where I predicted everything that is happening now 3 freaking years ago. It wasn't rocket science back then, and it isn't now.

If you force employers to give health coverage to everyone if they have over 50 employees, they won't expand their business to stay under that limit. They'll even start a second one if they have to.

If you redefine "full time" to mean 30+ hours a week, mandating insurance coverage, employers will cut hours to 29 or less and only hire new workers part time.

If the penalty for not giving medical insurance to your employees is only $2000, but the cost of providing that insurance is twice that, what is the best business approach to take?

Comrade Obama said, "if you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance." and "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Not anymore. Obama lied and people are about to die. Many of those that used to have health coverage through their employer are no longer getting it, so they, like every other taxpayer, can subsidize the deadbeats who vote for the likes of Obama. You see how that works?

I personally can't wait for the idealistic young, who voted for this crap, to realize that THEY are the OTHER people who are going to be paying for this crap. That's gonna be fun. I could tell them that I told them so, but I'll just smile and laugh at their suffering caused by their own actions instead.

Healthcare costs are out of control. The status quo is not sustainable. Obamacare isn't the answer, but I can't stand conservatives who pretend that there isn't a problem and we can just stick with the current system (or make very slighty adjustments). The system is broken and needs an overhaul.

I completely understand what you're saying, but it's the Republican establishment that is saying that instead of true conservatives. While nothing is perfect, the first step is tort reform. Malpractice insurance has gone through the roof as the government mandates that patients get unneeded tests for everything, just so the doctor can cover his rear in a lawsuit. Next, open up competition across state lines. Screw the government exchanges, which just incorporates existing health insurance companies within that state. Truly open it up to competition. Finally, scrap all the government mandates that you must cover this or that. If I want birth control, I'll buy some condoms at the drug store down the street. Don't make me pay for someone else's lack of responsibility. Since I have no intention of getting sexual reassignment surgery, don't make me pay for that either. If you want a sex change operation, pay for it yourself. Every added so-called benefit, leads to increased costs.

I'm gonna add something that most people don't even know about. Under Obamacare, no physician owned hospitals are allowed to open or expand. How's that for competition? I could go on about a conspiracy theory regarding fascism and the government's desire to oversee fewer hospitals during it's takeover, but I think you get the point.

In closing, on July 23rd, 1983, I took an oath. I stated, "I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." I intend to keep that oath until the day I die.

_________________

October 24th, 2013, 10:40 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

slybri19 wrote:

As for the "pure" definition of socialism and communism being government ownership of the means of production, that has morphed into government control of the means of production via regulation, law, executive fiat, corruption, intimidation, extortion, bribery, kickbacks, paybacks, and special interest favoritism. If you don't agree with this, return to your rabbit hole, Alice, where wonderland suggests that the world will be just like we envision it should be.

Merriam-Webster wrote:

so·cial·ism noun \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\: a way of organizing a society in which major industries are owned and controlled by the government rather than by individual people and companies

Full Definition of SOCIALISM

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done See socialism defined for English-language learners »See socialism defined for kids »Examples of SOCIALISM

She is quite right, for example, to stress that Thatcher's crusade against socialism was not merely about economic efficiency and prosperity but that above all, “it was that socialism itself—in all its incarnations, wherever and however it was applied—was morally corrupting.” —Stephen Pollard, New York Times Book Review, 18 Jan. 2009

socialismSyllabification: (so·cial·ism)Pronunciation: /ˈsōSHəˌlizəm/Translate socialism | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanishnouna political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole. policy or practice based on the political and economic theory of socialism. (in Marxist theory) a transitional social state between the overthrow of capitalism and the realization of communism.The term “socialism” has been used to describe positions as far apart as anarchism, Soviet state communism, and social democracy; however, it necessarily implies an opposition to the untrammeled workings of the economic market.The socialist parties that have arisen in most European countries from the late 19th century have generally tended toward social democracy

3 sources for definitions of the same word; I'll let the reader decide which is more accurate and accredited.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

October 24th, 2013, 12:03 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

slybri19 wrote:

Comrade Obama said, "if you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance." and "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Not anymore. Obama lied and people are about to die.

Would you happen to have any documented proof of this claim? or is it more hyperbole?

slybri19 wrote:

Many of those that used to have health coverage through their employer are no longer getting it

There are likely several reason this could happen, but I'm sure you're not interested in those.

TheRealWags wrote that socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How does THAT definition differ from the one I provided? You're reaching at straws, Wags. You're reaching at straws.

Comrade Obama said, "if you like your health insurance, you can keep your health insurance." and "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor". Not anymore. Obama lied and people are about to die.

Would you happen to have any documented proof of this claim? or is it more hyperbole?

slybri19 wrote:

Many of those that used to have health coverage through their employer are no longer getting it

There are likely several reason this could happen, but I'm sure you're not interested in those.

According to Fox Business, there are 351 employers who refuse to hire new full time workers because of Obamacare. I'd imagine that the number is much higher since most people don't wish to suffer the wraith of the Obama Administration. Believe what you will.

When I was in the Army, I saw the waste, fraud, and abuse FIRST HAND. It's there and it needs to stop. The Federal Government can't do ANYTHING that the private sector can do better.

As for the people are about to die comment, there is a Payment Advisory Board consisting of 15 members who will determine which medical procedures are covered and which ones are not. If that isn't a "Death Panel", I don't know what is. It's in the Obamacare law if you wish to search through all 2000 pages or so. I've seen it, but it's obvious that you're too lazy to read through the entire thing, kinda like Nancy Pelosi.

Remember that you've got to pass the bill to find out what's in it? LOL

_________________

October 24th, 2013, 12:57 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

slybri19 wrote:

According to Fox Business, there are 351 employers who refuse to hire new full time workers because of Obamacare. I'd imagine that the number is much higher since most people don't wish to suffer the wraith of the Obama Administration. Believe what you will.

Would you be able to provide a link or two? On the surface, it sounds like these business are making a business decision and they're likely using ObamaCare as a convenient excuse. I'm sure there are several ways any business can cut costs, one would hope they would first look to reduce the fraud, waste and abuse you reference.

slybri19 wrote:

When I was in the Army, I saw the waste, fraud, and abuse FIRST HAND. It's there and it needs to stop. The Federal Government can't do ANYTHING that the private sector can do better.

Agreed that fraud, waste and abuse is prevalent in ALL industries. Further agreed that we need to do everything we can to ensure these incidences are as low/infrequent as possible, tho I do not think it is possible to remove ALL fraud, waste and abuse.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

October 24th, 2013, 1:09 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Obamacare is here to stay.

slybri19 wrote:

TheRealWags wrote that socialism is a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

How does THAT definition differ from the one I provided? You're reaching at straws, Wags. You're reaching at straws.

Since I now work midnights, I'm, gonna go to bed soon, but I have to ask Wags a question first. What part of my previous posts about employers not hiring workers or cutting current employee's hours is factually incorrect? You can not honestly answer this question, so you will avoid it at all costs. What aspect of Obamacare actually works at this point? The answer is that nothing does, but that won't prevent you from spinning like a top.