I agree on 'ajjhatta', from within. An interesting grammatical note:
in the phrase "bhikkhu ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii", 'ruupasa~n~nii'
refers to 'bhikkhu' while 'ajjhatta.m' refers to 'ruupa-'
within 'ruupasa~n~nii'.

Thanks for explaining 'aruupasa~n~nii'. I agree 'unconscious' is
misleading, 'not conscious' is fine with me, 'unaware' is a less
strong alternative although it still links well with the last part
of each sutta: he is thus aware.

I still have a question. When the monk thinks/says "jaanaami
passaami", what has he known, seen or discovered? Impermanance? Non-
self? Why did the Buddha not elaborate? Thanks.

N: ajjhatta: I would eliminate arising, thus: within himself. I
think materiality of his own body. He can develop kasinas taking as
subject parts of his own body or external objects and then attain
ruupa-jhaana.

N: here is allusion to the immaterial jhaanas, and here is the
connection with the term aruupasa~n~nin.
I consulted Dhammasangani Pali, 225: this has aruupasa~n~na. This is
translated by PTS as: unconscious of any part of his corporeal self..

The *a* is a negation of ruupasa~n~nin, not of ruupa, thus, not
perceiving ruupa, materiality, of his own body. (See below the
Atthasaalinii). The word unconscious seems misleading.

N: immaterial forms: this is a contradiction.
It could be: not conscious of material forms of his own body...

nina van gorkom

Dear Yong Peng, I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not see

Message 366 of 366
, Aug 17, 2006

0 Attachment

Dear Yong Peng,

I found this in my concepts file not sent. So, I send it now, though
belated (29 July). I cannot remember whether I sent it, but I do not
see it in the messages.

21-25. Saddhindriya.m bhaaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaaveti...
satindriya.m bhaaveti... samaadhindriya.m bhaaveti...
pa~n~nindriya.m bhaaveti....
["O monks, if a monk] developed the faculty of faith (faculty of
energy, faculty of mindfulness, faculty of concentration, faculty of
wisdom), [even for the duration of a finger-snap, monks, such is
said...]
------
N: such a one is said...
--------
----------------------------------------------------------

["O monks, if a monk] developed the mindfulness (doctrinal
investigation,
------
N: Investigation of Dhamma.
-------

38-45. Sammaadi.t.thi.m bhaaveti... sammaasa`nkappa.m bhaaveti...
sammaavaaca.m bhaaveti... sammaakammanta.m bhaaveti... sammaa-
aajiiva.m bhaaveti... sammaavaayaama.m bhaaveti... sammaasati.m
bhaaveti... sammaasamaadhi.m bhaaveti....
["O monks, if a monk] developed right view (right intention, right
speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right
mindfulness, right concentration), [even for the duration of a
finger-snap, monks, such is said...]
-------
N: sammaasa`nkappa.m: instead of right intention: right thinking.

Intention is usually reserved for the term cetanaa, volition or kamma
which
is not a factor of the eightfold Path.
Sammaadi.t.thi and sammaasa`nkappa are together called the wisdom of the
eightfold Path. Sammaasa`nkappa is vitakka cetasika and it assists
paññaa in
'touching' or striking the object of understanding so that paññaa can
know
it.

----------------------------------------------------------

46-53. Ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati
parittaani suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami
passaamii'ti -- eva.msa~n~nii hoti...
["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
conscious of material forms arising from within,
-------
N: ajjhatta: I would eliminate arising, thus: within himself.
I think materiality of his own body.
He can develop kasinas taking as subject parts of his own body or
external
objects and then attain ruupa-jhaana.
--------

* appamaa.na (adj) endless, immeasurable, boundless, unlimited.
------
N: here is allusion to the immaterial jhaanas, and here is the
connection
with the term aruupasa~n~nin.
I consulted Dhammasangani Pali, 225: this has aruupasa~n~na. This is
translated by PTS as: unconscious of any part of his corporeal self..

["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
conscious of immaterial forms arising from within,
------
N: immaterial forms: this is a contradiction.
It could be: not conscious of material forms of his own body...
This could be applied of all the following paras. These paras seem to
refer
to the colour kasinas of ruupa-jhaana.

The Atthasaalinii, Co. to the Dhammasangani, explains (188) these
'positions
of mastery'.
<'Not perceiving material quality in himself' means devoid of the
perception
of the preamble in his own bodily frame, either from not getting it,
or from
not wishing it.
'Sees material qualities external to himself' means, from having
performed
the preamble externally in the eight devices, he sees with jhaana-
eyes the
external objects of these eight devices by virtue of the preamble and
the
extasy.
'Limited' means not growing....
Beautiful or ugly means pure or impure colours...>

It is asked why it is said, Not perceiving material quality in
himself, this
is because his own body is not to be mastered, only external objects...
*****
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.