Fernando Alonso - Part II

I know Jenson said he didn't say the arse kissing thing, but I have to admit to being disappointed in his comments. I have a lot of respect for Jenson, but I would hate to see him taking cheap shots, just because he is struggling in comparison to others.

To be fair, Alonso has put down (taking cheap shots at) Vettel on occasion. I would say no driver is squeaky clean when it comes to that kind of stuff. And who could really be surprised, their whole life consists of trying to beat eachother.

I'll await the comments on how this was any different. Oh in fact, it is. Because unlike Jenson, Fernando actually personally aimed for Jenson, not the strength of his car.

Forgot that one, even better illustration of my last post.

I never sensed a great of love between FA and JB. Thankfully I don't feel the need to agree on each and everything with my favourite drivers. Not to be mistaken, I'd always prefer Alonso over Button, but at the same time JB is easily in my top five of drivers I wish to do well.

From my perspective Button's comments are not meant to diss Fernando. He does say that he did a great job which is enough praise from a driver towards his competition.
Everything fall into place - he is talking about things like the safety car and Vettel gearbox problem which made things much easier for the win. Nothing wrong with that.

I never sensed a great of love between FA and JB. Thankfully I don't feel the need to agree on each and everything with my favourite drivers. Not to be mistaken, I'd always prefer Alonso over Button, but at the same time JB is easily in my top five of drivers I wish to do well.

Me neither. But the media will exploit anything and it often twists the truth. However as I've noticed in the past 2 pages here, some fans are even worse than the media.

I'll await the comments on how this was any different. Oh in fact, it is. Because unlike Jenson, Fernando actually personally aimed for Jenson, not the strength of his car.

You won't get that argument from me! Button makes a veiled attempt to be subtle, but they are BOTH taking jabs at each other. Probably dates back to their Renault days, when Jenson was dumped for the "test driver" who is now regarded as arguably the best driver in the sport. I believe Fernando is more direct in his dismissive remarks -- to both Jenson and Vettel, of whom he said earlier this year that he rates Lewis above him because he has raced and won from the midfield in subpar equipment. Something Vettel hasn't done. Button has also said he'd like to race in the same team as Alonso, but volunteered that Fernando is not the fastest driver and was "sure" they'd be enemies. Of that, I have no doubt! I'm no psychiatrist, but there is probably more than just a little coincidence in Button couching almost all of his remarks about Alonso's Valencia race in the negative: 1)He doesn't get all the praise being heaped on Alonso. "It's quite strange." (we'll accept his denial of the @rse kissing comment), Pundits the world over are lauding the performance as extrordinary, but Jenson is befuddled as to why. ; 2)Alonso only won his home GP because things "fell into place", as if he hadn't raced his way to the front; 3)"Sometimes you make those moves...you end up in a wall", But they DID come off because they were sublime! Alonso is an aggressive racer, but isn't known as a crasher. If anything, he's more cautious because he's a Master of the long game, so won't crash into an HRT, for example; 4)"Was his performance scary? No..." Again, a guy drives from 11th to 1st in a car with equal or slower pace to the ones in front, with only 1 dropping out, seems a pretty scary performance to me! ; "He's really got his team behind him.", Erm...and Jenson doesn't, or is he telegraphing something to us about his standing in Woking?; "When you race against him and beat him, it feels special.", Fair enough...but how about when you race against him and he beats the living daylights out of YOU...REPEATEDLY...in a car most observers consider inferior to the one you are driving? I suppose I might be annoyed by the reality of the situation...especially when the guy I said "is not the worry" is now on his THIRD TURN leading the WDC, and this time by almost a race distance.

To be clear, it doesn't surprise or really bother me about Jense's comments. He's trying to get in Alonso's head (to me), and Fernando's comments have the same intended effect. Just my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, but I've laid out my argument. What makes me chuckle a bit are those who are so dismissive of others with an opposite view, without allowing for the possibilty that that view might be the correct one. THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE THIS! It's all down to ones interpretations of Jenson's remarks.

As to RBR's pace...let's see what updates the teams like McLaren, Ferrari and Lotus bring this weekend before we go telling them to make more space in the trophy case.

You won't get that argument from me! Button makes a veiled attempt to be subtle, but they are BOTH taking jabs at each other. Probably dates back to their Renault days, when Jenson was dumped for the "test driver" who is now regarded as arguably the best driver in the sport. I believe Fernando is more direct in his dismissive remarks -- to both Jenson and Vettel, of whom he said earlier this year that he rates Lewis above him because he has raced and won from the midfield in subpar equipment. Something Vettel hasn't done. Button has also said he'd like to race in the same team as Alonso, but volunteered that Fernando is not the fastest driver and was "sure" they'd be enemies. Of that, I have no doubt! I'm no psychiatrist, but there is probably more than just a little coincidence in Button couching almost all of his remarks about Alonso's Valencia race in the negative: 1)He doesn't get all the praise being heaped on Alonso. "It's quite strange." (we'll accept his denial of the @rse kissing comment), Pundits the world over are lauding the performance as extrordinary, but Jenson is befuddled as to why. ; 2)Alonso only won his home GP because things "fell into place", as if he hadn't raced his way to the front; 3)"Sometimes you make those moves...you end up in a wall", But they DID come off because they were sublime! Alonso is an aggressive racer, but isn't known as a crasher. If anything, he's more cautious because he's a Master of the long game, so won't crash into an HRT, for example; 4)"Was his performance scary? No..." Again, a guy drives from 11th to 1st in a car with equal or slower pace to the ones in front, with only 1 dropping out, seems a pretty scary performance to me! ; "He's really got his team behind him.", Erm...and Jenson doesn't, or is he telegraphing something to us about his standing in Woking?; "When you race against him and beat him, it feels special.", Fair enough...but how about when you race against him and he beats the living daylights out of YOU...REPEATEDLY...in a car most observers consider inferior to the one you are driving? I suppose I might be annoyed by the reality of the situation...especially when the guy I said "is not the worry" is now on his THIRD TURN leading the WDC, and this time by almost a race distance.

To be clear, it doesn't surprise or really bother me about Jense's comments. He's trying to get in Alonso's head (to me), and Fernando's comments have the same intended effect. Just my opinion, and I could very well be wrong, but I've laid out my argument. What makes me chuckle a bit are those who are so dismissive of others with an opposite view, without allowing for the possibilty that that view might be the correct one. THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVE THIS! It's all down to ones interpretations of Jenson's remarks.

As to RBR's pace...let's see what updates the teams like McLaren, Ferrari and Lotus bring this weekend before we go telling them to make more space in the trophy case.

All correct, except that Vettel won a wet Monza in a midfield car. You can argue to death about the circumstances - the Torro Rosso WAS a good car actually (P1 & p4 in quali) but still, Vettel has won from the middle. Once.

I just went over Alonso's race wins, and he has won 12 times without being the fastest car on race day, which is 41% of his wins. That's quite amazing. Has Vettel won a single race without being the fastest on race day?

PS, that is not factoring how good or slow the actual car is, I am talking about overall speed on race day of the driver/car package.

I just went over Alonso's race wins, and he has won 12 times without being the fastest car on race day, which is 41% of his wins. That's quite amazing. Has Vettel won a single race without being the fastest on race day?

PS, that is not factoring how good or slow the actual car is, I am talking about overall speed on race day of the driver/car package.

Shows that Alonso is a very intelligent driver with excellent racecraft, altough I think his speed is a bit overrated.

What is this, the days of our lives? I don't see anything wrong with what he said. People need to stop getting so upset and annoyed over nothing. You can't expect drivers to predict the future and know which teams will be there fighting in the end. Who could have predicted ferrari would have bounced back the way they have early in the season?? He isn't "dissing" anyone. Get some perspective people.

about his racecraft, here is something that is related to it, plus this was button's firs win,it should be a greatest alonso's win, but it went to button just because alonso's suspension broke.he used a great car and tyres and came from p15 to p6 in 3 laps on a wet track, something that vettel and button still haven't show us.

about his racecraft, here is something that is related to it, plus this was button's firs win,it should be a greatest alonso's win, but it went to button just because alonso's suspension broke.he used a great car and tyres and came from p15 to p6 in 3 laps on a wet track, something that vettel and button still haven't show us.

I remember that day like it was yesterday, it was so epic, same about the DNF, the problems with the nuts was something else in Renault those years too.

Jenson is Spot on with his comments. Alonso and his team made the difference on strategy when they decided to put another set of soft tyres while other drivers were using the harder compound. At that point ALO was faster and had better grip than all of them(he was pratically overtaking in the outside).Those tyres were aim to not last too long, and then came the SC. With normal pit stop and DNF free race, he would have been in P4 (behind HAM) at then end of the pits stops, but we know McLaren pit crew IS the best. The "everything fell in place" comment from Button is not far from the truth.

Great win, but i prefer wins where the winner overtakes his direct rivals on the track( a Hamilton trademark) and not when a driver inherits win because the guy ahead retires(ALO is a specialist in this). Yes i'm a Lewis's fan and i'm not worried at all.;)

It will be a great season, and i wish all of them luck, although i suspect, VET will take his 3xWDC this year. +20pts lead is nothing.

Shows that Alonso is a very intelligent driver with excellent racecraft, altough I think his speed is a bit overrated.

Huh, I think the opposite. People are always going on about what a complete driver he is, but few have singled out his speed as his main strength. In fact, I only recall Lewis and maybe Stefano as the ones who have.

And yeah, people should stop getting their knickers in a twist every time a driver opens his mouth. While I have no doubt Jenson's taking jabs at Alonso, I see nothing wrong with what he said. Did Alonso benefit from the circumstances? Yes. Should McLaren be more scared of Red Bull's speed? Of course, EVERYONE should. Is it strange that drivers are so complimentary towards one another? Hell yes, even Vettel has joined in the lovefest.

Also, if Alonso rates Lewis and Vettel more than Button then he has every right to express this opinion. I doubt Button will lose sleep over it. Do you think the Spanish football team gave a f*** when people wrote them off and considered Germany title favorite after the group stage? And it's not like Alonso doesn't share the same view with most F1 fans out there, is it?

Jenson is Spot on with his comments. Alonso and his team made the difference on strategy when they decided to put another set of soft tyres while other drivers were using the harder compound. At that point ALO was faster and had better grip than all of them(he was pratically overtaking in the outside).Those tyres were aim to not last too long, and then came the SC. With normal pit stop and DNF free race, he would have been in P4 (behind HAM) at then end of the pits stops, but we know McLaren pit crew IS the best. The "everything fell in place" comment from Button is not far from the truth.

IMO, Alonso was no different in Canada or Valencia. However, the results were different because the strategy didn't work out in Canada. The reactions were very different.

Huh, I think the opposite. People are always going on about what a complete driver he is, but few have singled out his speed as his main strength. In fact, I only recall Lewis and maybe Stefano as the ones who have.

And yeah, people should stop getting their knickers in a twist every time a driver opens his mouth. While I have no doubt Jenson's taking jabs at Alonso, I see nothing wrong with what he said. Did Alonso benefit from the circumstances? Yes. Should McLaren be more scared of Red Bull's speed? Of course, EVERYONE should. Is it strange that drivers are so complimentary towards one another? Hell yes, even Vettel has joined in the lovefest.

Also, if Alonso rates Lewis and Vettel more than Button then he has every right to express this opinion. I doubt Button will lose sleep over it. Do you think the Spanish football team gave a f*** when people wrote them off and considered Germany title favorite after the group stage? And it's not like Alonso doesn't share the same view with most F1 fans out there, is it?

Huh, I think the opposite. People are always going on about what a complete driver he is, but few have singled out his speed as his main strength. In fact, I only recall Lewis and maybe Stefano as the ones who have.

And yeah, people should stop getting their knickers in a twist every time a driver opens his mouth. While I have no doubt Jenson's taking jabs at Alonso, I see nothing wrong with what he said. Did Alonso benefit from the circumstances? Yes. Should McLaren be more scared of Red Bull's speed? Of course, EVERYONE should. Is it strange that drivers are so complimentary towards one another? Hell yes, even Vettel has joined in the lovefest.

Also, if Alonso rates Lewis and Vettel more than Button then he has every right to express this opinion. I doubt Button will lose sleep over it. Do you think the Spanish football team gave a f*** when people wrote them off and considered Germany title favorite after the group stage? And it's not like Alonso doesn't share the same view with most F1 fans out there, is it?

All in all, Jenson is 61 points behind Alonso, and he has only scored 49 in 8 races...and in many races he has been nowhere... so Jenson cannot talk too much about ALonso performance given the very bad results he is having, and not because DNF, but because of his performance...

IMO, Alonso was no different in Canada or Valencia. However, the results were different because the strategy didn't work out in Canada. The reactions were very different.

It was different.In Valencia ALO were not in Q3, that means he had new sets of soft tyres compared to the TOP10. It can be a relatively big advantage(if you have a TOP car) as shown by VET in Monaco 2012 and WEB in China 2011.He did his overtakes(and faster times) on Soft tyres while the other where using the harder compound. He was in attack mode and executed his strategy perfectly with a little bit of luck when the SC came out preventing the others to capitalize on the longer life the harder compound had.

Sometimes the stars are perfectly aligned and that sunday was one of those days.

All in all, Jenson is 61 points behind Alonso, and he has only scored 49 in 8 races...and in many races he has been nowhere... so Jenson cannot talk too much about ALonso performance given the very bad results he is having, and not because DNF, but because of his performance...

Really? What contract did he sign that says he cannot talk about it once he's # points behind? He basically complimented Alonso and Ferrari's crew and strategy, but just warned the world that it's not Ferrari, but Red Bull that appear to be the strongest right now.

Really? What contract did he sign that says he cannot talk about it once he's # points behind? He basically complimented Alonso and Ferrari's crew and strategy, but just warned the world that it's not Ferrari, but Red Bull that appear to be the strongest right now.

Even as the ALO/Ferrari fan I have got to agree. No offence guys, but some of you are trying to read too much from it.

I know i am about 1-1/2 weeks to late, nevertheless i wanna say something about Alonso.
This season we have 6 World Champions in the field, some potential future champions driving as well. Maybe 2012 is the most competitive field in the history of formula1. + the differences between the cars is not that big as it already was in the past. And we have a driver, who is not driving in the fastest team against this strong field. and he is outracing them race after race.
it is down to everybody to draw their conclusion, but if we have now the most competitive field in the history of this sport and a driver who is not driving in the fastest team is leading and outracing the others that obviously, i think the conclusion is clear.

Here's more from Gary Anderson discussing driver adaptability to the current Pirelli's. The larger context is the problem Button has been having with the tires, and how Lewis' style is much more aggressive, generating heat in them. Alonso's natural inclination is to drive like Button (So says Gary). To me, Fernando's ability to come to grips with whatever car he's in and fight for podiums (2009 largely excluded) is his greatest strength, and is what makes him such a valued asset at Ferrari.

"Hamilton's style - braking late and hard - is one good way of getting the front tyre temperatures up.Being nice and gentle on the tyres, as Button will naturally be, means you don't get the temperature in these Pirellis, and his desire to turn and brake at the same time is counter to the way the tyres want to be used.Button is not the only driver whose natural style is to do this - Ferrari's Fernando Alonso is one of them. The key difference, though, is that the Spaniard has adapted.Whenever I watch Alonso on the track, I see someone who modifies his driving style from lap to lap.He has done that throughout his career, adopting different driving styles depending on the needs of his car. What's more, he can do that within two or three laps."

The guy does like sports!! To be fair my life would be something like that if I had a source of money like he has, makes me jealous.

I remember to read from him that, had he not been a driver, he´d have been cyslist. He must thank have such a massive talent driving, because he´s not good enough even to race with amateurs in Spain, the average of his rides is quite poor, despite the time he dedicates to the bike.

I remember to read from him that, had he not been a driver, he´d have been cyslist. He must thank have such a massive talent driving, because he´s not good enough even to race with amateurs in Spain, the average of his rides is quite poor, despite the time he dedicates to the bike.

Maths teacher you mean. And really....not good enough to race with amateurs? I heard some professional cyclists (like Sastre) said he could easily be competetive at a high level. He's just training btw, not building up for the Tour. Don't think that fits into his training regime...

And really....not good enough to race with amateurs? I heard some professional cyclists (like Sastre) said he could easily be competetive at a high level. He just training btw, not building up for the Tour. Don't think that fits into his training regime...

No way. It´s not disrespect saying what I said, amateurs in Spain is just like continental pros in other countries. Alonso´s averaging 25 km/h trainings. Amateurs do average 33/34 km/h on sort of flat -there´s nothing flat in northern Spain - long trainings, 28/29 on mountain trainings when they go out alone. That without even pushing, in a normal day. Pushing and in a small group the average goes up to racing speed -in the low 40´s range-.

I know that quote, it wasn´t from Sastre, it was from Novoa, another former Cervelo rider. He was just being polite after their training together. Found the article and it´s full of rubbish, to be honest. It´s a Carlos Miquel production. He says they averaged 37, but then says 110 km in 3 and a half hours, which is slightly under 32. Alonso says too "we did 90 kms in 3 hours, it takes 4 usually for me". That´s 23-24 km/h. Anyone familiar with cycling will know that´s nowhere enough to compete at any level.

Alonso has said himself he´d probably be "a local cyclist" -can´t think of an English accurate translation for what he implied- if he wasn´t driver on a race buildup around that training´s date (early 2009) when asked.

Fernando Alonso had feared the worst going in to the season, with Ferrari's F2012 being far below the lofty targets the team had set itself. But the one element of the Ferrari package that has been supreme this year is the driver – for Alonso has been superb. His victories in Malaysia and Valencia were of the highest order. In doing what he has on track, he has helped lift spirits and determination off it to improve the car and get it towards the front of the grid on pure pace. And if Alonso has managed to lead the championship in a difficult car, his opposition should worry about what is going to happen when Maranello gets everything in order.

Last year was something special, driving the old F1 car before the race, almost missing the drivers parade, the win, 60th anniversary of Ferrari first ever win in Formula 1, let's hope this weekend is as memorable as it was last year.

Last year was something special, driving the old F1 car before the race, almost missing the drivers parade, the win, 60th anniversary of Ferrari first ever win in Formula 1, let's hope this weekend is as memorable as it was last year.

Well to be honest Alonso started the discussion by saying he shouldn't have hit him... Then Massa got angry "you won and still come to blame me?"

I think Massa was wrong there, the fact that Alonso won doesn't mean Alonso lost the right to tell him whatever he thought of that move, but meh..

Ok, yeah my lack of Spanish might not help while watching that. Just seems like Felipe got overly aggressive while he was already the one overly aggressive on the track. But I understand it better now, thanks.

Ok, yeah my lack of Spanish might not help while watching that. Just seems like Felipe got overly aggressive while he was already the one overly aggressive on the track. But I understand it better now, thanks.

Ok, i tried to do my best to translate the dialogue(the funny thing is that they were talking in Italian) between Massa and Alonso after the race.

- Alonso(handshake with Massa .. Alonso complains to Massa about the touch)- Massa: i didn't do it on purpose.[non l'ho fatto apposta eh]- Alonso: you broke my car's sidepod.[mi hai rotto tutto il deflettore]- Massa: F*ck off.[ma vai a cagare] You win the race and you behave like this? You win the race and you say this kind of thing? you are an a*shole then.[allora sei un coglione]- Alonso: I have fought against Heidfeld, i have fought against the other guys, and this(Alonso shows with his hands how he and Massa touched) can not be done.[questo non si può fare]- Massa: My friend, try to learn(grow up??).[amico, prova ad imparare]- Alonso: you, try to learn(grow up??).[prova ad imparare tu]- Alonso: With 3 laps left we touch. [a 3 giri dalla fine ci tocchiamo] - Massa(Ironically showing his thumb): I did it on purpose.[l'ho fatto apposta]

mmmm.. they sound like two children.

p.s: i could not hear some words near the end because of Lobato and all the noise.

Ok, i tried to do my best to translate the dialogue(the funny thing is that they were talking in Italian) between Massa and Alonso after the race.

- Alonso(handshake with Massa .. Alonso complains to Massa about the touch)- Massa: i didn't do it on purpose.[non l'ho fatto apposta eh]- Alonso: you broke all the sidepod of my car.[mi hai rotto tutto il deflettore]- Massa: F*ck off.[ma vai a cagare] You win the race and you behave like this? You win the race and you say this kind of thing? you are an a*shole then.[allora sei un coglione]- Alonso: I have fought against Heidfeld, i have fought against the other guys, and this(Alonso shows with his hands how he and Massa touched) can not be done.[questo non si può fare]- Massa: My friend, try to learn(grow up??).[amico, prova ad imparare]- Alonso: you, try to learn(grow up??).[prova ad imparare tu]

mmmm.. they sound like children.

It sounds like it looked. Alonso trying to make a point with Massa about combating standards and Massa being on short fuse cause he got owned on track. Notable that only one of them is swearing. OTOH, never a good idea to start a discussion with a loser so shortly after the event.

It sounds like it looked. Alonso trying to make a point with Massa about combating standards and Massa being on short fuse cause he got owned on track. Notable that only one of them is swearing. OTOH, never a good idea to start a discussion with a loser so shortly after the event.

In my opinion, Alonso didn't need to do all this cinema. If you remember the race, right after, he called the cameraman to show the scars on his car. Massa lost the race ffs, and this scene was not necessary IMHO. Just be happy and leave the poor guy. I know i would have punched him if i was Massa.