this is exactly what was happening during cataclysm, garrosh warchief and vol'jin, caine and eitrigg where advisors it failed miserably why? because there is no one among the current horde that can lead a difficult group of strangers with different goals aside thrall.

No it is not the same as Thrall wasn't in that picture at all when it came to the policies being made. I also do not think the Horde will be making a repeat after Garrosh, so the Warchief appointed will probably have to be of a unanimous decision amongst the Horde leaders. When Thrall is advising the new leader I have no doubt things will be fine. Garrosh not working wasn't because of the advisors, it was just because of Garrosh. With Thrall in the picture the dynamic changes.

If a person were to become Warchief who wasn't a psycho, can you not see that this would be a great opportunity for some progression?
There is ample reasoning for such a thing to happen with a lot of potential for it to expand the Horde's story.

Originally Posted by bufferunderrun

Btw a different way of being warchief involving the other leader like how varian run the alliance is possible but at the head only thrall has the qualities to last and be respected.

I don't think that would be popular. I think people like both factions having a distinct leadership style. There was a lot of controversy surrounding Varian being High King as people said it was too close to the Horde despite it later being clarified to only military control and even then there's a sizeable portion who still are uneasy about it.

As soon as I read the title of this thread, I wondered how long it would take for Trassk to come along and call everyone childish dorks. Took less than 3 hours, that's gotta be close to some sort of record.

So the most civil orc, having raised his people from the ashes of the second war, avoiding further conflict both during wc3 and wow vanilla-wotlk, being more diplomatic than the alliance's king even, time and time again reminding the horde of what it can and should be, having even made alliances during the 3rd war, showing that differences can be put aside, and having saved the entire world during the cataclysm...

should be exiled for electing the wrong leader?
he may have underestimated garrosh's bad sides, but he certainly also had good ones. thrall chose garrosh because he envisioned him a strong leader unafraid of holding his ground in a war that was bound to come after the wrathgate incident.

It was also the son of his best friend (yeah, and that best friend wasn't perfect either, I know).
So yeah, thrall's not perfect, he made mistakes.

Guess what? Others did, too.

And while it was thrall who made him chief, it was garrosh who accepted the role and messed up.

Originally Posted by Angoth

I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

Although Thrall didn't handle the whole Garrosh situation well he was sure Garrosh was the correct warchief as he was a warhero and the alliance and horde fighting was starting to escalate from the end of wrath.

if anything cata and mop have showed that aside thrall there is no one with power, charisma, reputation among all the races of azeroth and brain to take the warchief position; you can blame blizzard to put all the good guys on alliance side (or alliance aligned) but for now the only one is thrall.

What about durotar's answer to chuck norris; Saurfang?

-He's old and wise
-He's humbled by what he and the old horde did ,something thrall cant imagine (there was this story about the slaughtering of the pigs, which reminded him of what he did to the draenei, he's scarred both physical and mental and knows what it means to kill a person). He also knows what it feels like to be under the influence of the legion, so he can better sympathise with the older people of his race
-He's a highly respected and valued member of the horde
-He has shitloads of military experience, serving good in training and leading orgrimmar's army in the future
-He's a good friend of thrall and I imagine he has the respect, maybe even the friendship of other leaders of the horde, especially vol'jin
-He's not hot headed, but patient
-He's not meek though and if the situation calls for it, shit's about to hit the fan
-He's the brother (I think) of broxxigar the red, the most epic orc who ever lived (maybe the most epic warcraft character who ever lived (google him if you haven't heard about his tales already)
-He was among the ones who advised against garrosh, as well as the one who thwarted garrosh's selfdestructive, arrogant unknowing character of the orcish past back in northred. Evidently, he even had an effect (as was shown in that stonetalon quest, where he punished an unhonourable officer for massacre, telling tales befoe that about an old orc who told him about honor)

and so on... Saurfang's awesome, make him warchief and thrall farseer/adviser

He wont be a goody-two-shoe, but not a war-crazed fool either, but a good balance between to pacifistic thrall and to militant garrosh.
Enemies like allies will respect him, and hostile acts against the horde will be more considered with him in charge.

Originally Posted by Angoth

I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

So you are actually saying that because bad things do sometimes happen to some people that everyone who makes a mistake should be exiled or die in a fire?

I stated many times Thrall is undeserving of death for multiple reasons. Im implying, though didn't really make to clear in the OP, a form of self imposed exile, where the Alliance grills Thrall after the siege, and he states he will leave the Horde for good, and leave it to grow on its own. In my opinion, that would be a good close to the Thrall-Horde storyline that started in WC3.

And yes, In the eyes of many Alliance Thrall is deserving of death (from their perspective). This isnt some simple little mistake where Thrall can just say 'woops my bad!'. This 'mistake' has caused thousands of Alliance lives, has had innocent peoples homes destroyed, and has even had the land itself permanently scarred (Theramore). Given, its not Thralls direct doing, but should he go blameless for giving a maniac the key to the Hordes armory?

I stated many times Thrall is undeserving of death for multiple reasons. Im implying, though didn't really make to clear in the OP, a form of self imposed exile, where the Alliance grills Thrall after the siege, and he states he will leave the Horde for good, and leave it to grow on its own. In my opinion, that would be a good close to the Thrall-Horde storyline that started in WC3.

And yes, In the eyes of many Alliance Thrall is deserving of death (from their perspective). This isnt some simple little mistake where Thrall can just say 'woops my bad!'. This 'mistake' has caused thousands of Alliance lives, has had innocent peoples homes destroyed, and has even had the land itself permanently scarred (Theramore). Given, its not Thralls direct doing, but should he go blameless for giving a maniac the key to the Hordes armory?

more of this? Seriously?
If you watch Thralls development, you will see he does feel blame for what has happened, he does carry the weight of what is happening, but he is powerless to stop Garrosh.
He lost not just one of his cloest friends to death (Cairne) because of that choice, and now lost another close friend after she was driven mad by what Garrosh has done.

And you want to accuse him of being a character who doesn't feel loss or remorse for these things? If anything he's one of the few orcs left who does feel regret for choices made. He has lost so much in his life, his parents, his mentors, his friends. Him becoming a father and husband is the only good thing that has happened to him.

But thats not good enough is it, appanrently him living with regret and loss isn't enough, no, the character has to suffer more for the actions of others, because he has to bare the weight of everyones problems.

Such piss poor arguments. A character who feels remorse and regret, and people want him to suffer more, against characters like sylvanas or Garrosh, who feel no regret and no remorse, and fanboys love them.

more of this? Seriously?
If you watch Thralls development, you will see he does feel blame for what has happened, he does carry the weight of what is happening, but he is powerless to stop Garrosh.
He lost not just one of his cloest friends to death (Cairne) because of that choice, and now lost another close friend after she was driven mad by what Garrosh has done.

And you want to accuse him of being a character who doesn't feel loss or remorse for these things? If anything he's one of the few orcs left who does feel regret for choices made. He has lost so much in his life, his parents, his mentors, his friends. Him becoming a father and husband is the only good thing that has happened to him.

But thats not good enough is it, appanrently him living with regret and loss isn't enough, no, the character has to suffer more for the actions of others, because he has to bare the weight of everyones problems.

Such piss poor arguments. A character who feels remorse and regret, and people want him to suffer more, against characters like sylvanas or Garrosh, who feel no regret and no remorse, and fanboys love them.

this community really is going to the dogs.

Well, Thrall is Green Jesus. Of course he has to suffer for the actions of others... :/

No it is not the same as Thrall wasn't in that picture at all when it came to the policies being made. I also do not think the Horde will be making a repeat after Garrosh, so the Warchief appointed will probably have to be of a unanimous decision amongst the Horde leaders. When Thrall is advising the new leader I have no doubt things will be fine. Garrosh not working wasn't because of the advisors, it was just because of Garrosh. With Thrall in the picture the dynamic changes.

If a person were to become Warchief who wasn't a psycho, can you not see that this would be a great opportunity for some progression?
There is ample reasoning for such a thing to happen with a lot of potential for it to expand the Horde's story.

I don't think that would be popular. I think people like both factions having a distinct leadership style. There was a lot of controversy surrounding Varian being High King as people said it was too close to the Horde despite it later being clarified to only military control and even then there's a sizeable portion who still are uneasy about it.

i'm not going to talk about how popular among the playerbase is thrall compared to others, btw blizzard don't take popularity into consideration when writing lore otherwise garrosh never have become warchief, i hope peoples have not forgotten all the screaming thread in this forum and the official.

Originally Posted by Omanley

What about durotar's answer to chuck norris; Saurfang?

-He's old and wise
-He's humbled by what he and the old horde did ,something thrall cant imagine (there was this story about the slaughtering of the pigs, which reminded him of what he did to the draenei, he's scarred both physical and mental and knows what it means to kill a person). He also knows what it feels like to be under the influence of the legion, so he can better sympathise with the older people of his race
-He's a highly respected and valued member of the horde
-He has shitloads of military experience, serving good in training and leading orgrimmar's army in the future
-He's a good friend of thrall and I imagine he has the respect, maybe even the friendship of other leaders of the horde, especially vol'jin
-He's not hot headed, but patient
-He's not meek though and if the situation calls for it, shit's about to hit the fan
-He's the brother (I think) of broxxigar the red, the most epic orc who ever lived (maybe the most epic warcraft character who ever lived (google him if you haven't heard about his tales already)
-He was among the ones who advised against garrosh, as well as the one who thwarted garrosh's selfdestructive, arrogant unknowing character of the orcish past back in northred. Evidently, he even had an effect (as was shown in that stonetalon quest, where he punished an unhonourable officer for massacre, telling tales befoe that about an old orc who told him about honor)

and so on... Saurfang's awesome, make him warchief and thrall farseer/adviser

He wont be a goody-two-shoe, but not a war-crazed fool either, but a good balance between to pacifistic thrall and to militant garrosh.
Enemies like allies will respect him, and hostile acts against the horde will be more considered with him in charge.

Saurfang, aside for the barren jokes, has never done anything in both lore and game, also he has 0 excuse to not showing up and force some sense into garrosh head, thrall was busy saving the world but saurfang? he was bury it's son in nagrad for how 1 or 2 year?

How about we let the parenting of kids to... their parents? No, seriously, World of Warcraft is a videogame. Gaming it's supposed to be a fun activity (if you have that fun through challenges, social interactions, etc is completely up to you). Not some kind of "School of Hard Knocks about the Real World".

Well, Thrall is Green Jesus. Of course he has to suffer for the actions of others... :/

it is just a ridiculous argument made up by alliance fans on the official forums.

The problem I have is, it doesn't seem to matter sod all that Thrall saved the world, the same alliance kids still think of him as the head of the horde even if they know he's not, and so want to hold him accountable.

And they want to have him exiled and made fully to blame for what Garrosh has done?

So, shall we hold Malfurion responsible for Staghelm then, and all those that died to him because of Malfurion not putting a stop of him before he became a druid of the flame. I mean of course Malfurion must have known he would go down this road right?

Or how about Varian, he was best friend with Arthas, he he must have known all the terrible things he would do in years to come, so he should be exiled for what Arthas did.

How about Tyrande. She knew how desperate Illidan was, and knew he'd come back one day, but she did nothing when he did return and just sat on her ass until some random adventurers killed him. Why isn't she exiled for what Illidan did?

And you know the funny thing is. All these and more have been indirectly accountable for something bad happening, and yet of all of them, Thrall is the only one showing any sense of regret for his choices, and like vultures the haters jump on this and want to rip the idea apart.

As soon as I read the title of this thread, I wondered how long it would take for Trassk to come along and call everyone childish dorks. Took less than 3 hours, that's gotta be close to some sort of record.

It's little too predicable and annoying at the same time.

---------- Post added 2013-02-24 at 10:57 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Trassk

And they want to have him exiled and made fully to blame for what Garrosh has done?

And until the story in cata ends will you be able to say who puts a stop to Garrosh, and if it were Thrall it would be the same situation as your saying here.

2. Varian lived on the other side of the continent and has no magic, Arthas's decisions were his own, he was not given any authority by Varian.

Varian and Arthas were friends as children. Varian might have stopped him before he became what he turned into.

3. Tyrande chased down Illidan on the Broken Isles... and he never 'came back' he just crewed with Outland, Kael and the Legion are the ones that messed with Azeroth.

and she left him to become the demonicly corrupted character he was, and his claiming of outland as his own. Didn't see her doing anything there.

4. Thrall is certainly not the only one to show remorse, he's just the only one you care about so you put him up on a pedestal :\

Name them? Give me Examples?

you understand that while you think every scenario I'm giving her sounds ridiculous, it is just as riduclous holding Thrall responsible for everything Garrosh has done. I can hold other warcraft leaders just as accountable, but you just don't want to hear it.

you want to hold a good guy responsible for what another character did, not because it makes sense, but because your irrational mind wants to find any excuse to blame him for something. And since Thrall is already beginning a path of freeing the horde from Garrosh's capture, he's doing a dam shit load more then any other leader of the horde currently is.

---------- Post added 2013-02-25 at 12:34 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Scummer

He is guilty of a pretty major fuck up.

One that he is fixing.

Oh and hey, if the alliance wants to hold Thrall responsible for what Garrosh has done (which is exactly what the wow.us post was), then look at your own bloody king for this mess, because your idiot big chinned kind got Garrosh riled up to the point of wanting full on war.. and now Varians suddenly mellow about it?

Yeah, your not blame Varian, your gladly blame someone who risked everything to stop the world turning to ash. but not Varian oh noooooo.

Oh and hey, if the alliance wants to hold Thrall responsible for what Garrosh has done (which is exactly what the wow.us post was), then look at your own bloody king for this mess, because your idiot big chinned kind got Garrosh riled up to the point of wanting full on war.. and now Varians suddenly mellow about it?

Yeah, your not blame Varian, your gladly blame someone who risked everything to stop the world turning to ash. but not Varian oh noooooo.

if i stab someone, take them to hospital and they end up fine, can i get in trouble with the police?

If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.