There's a great bit of history that involves a journalist named Pauling Kael. After a presidential election she said that she couldn't understand how Nixon won because no one she knew voted for Nixon. Nixon won in a landslide.

Perhaps, Sam, your circle of friends needs some expanding?

So Jack, how's like at Shocktoberfest these days? Dance on top any party busses drunk lately? How's it like being president of a dead association no one cares about anymore for the 8th year in a row now? You can admit it "Jack" you're really Pat and you're trying to save face by defending this classless, unprofessional sinking ship of an idea that failed completely to sell your more tickets but hey, got you in the news and made the entire industry look bad in the process! Mission accomplished. But hey, there are always a few bottom feeders who thought it was a great and positive thing and got you on TV and sadly some are actually haunters, sadly enough.

Every single haunt owner I've spoken to over the last week or two, every email I got said pretty much the same thing... it was a repulsive idea and mos important if he is suppose to be a president of an association its shows even more lack of judgement. His facebook friends bashed the idea the media as a whole bashed the idea, and as he admitted the city officials didn't like it either...

The point Tater is doing something like this can hurt your business because of the negative limelight it creates ... this did nothing positive for the haunt industry sorry I totally disagree. As for talking about haunted houses this is already happening like gangbusters and its been happening the last 5 to 8 years. Travel Channel is already rolling out dozens of shows about haunted houses, and much more.

I don't want press that says I'm doing a namked haunt only for me to turn around and say oh no I'm not... I got a slap on the wrist from the town leaders. BACKLASH... as someone pointed out NO ONE EVER promoted Scocktoberfest they talked about a naked haunt.

This blew up in his face and as a President of an association even if it only has 3 or 4 members now (LOL) it shows a clear lack of judgement. Bottom line we can all agree to disagree, we can all make different points and in America no one agrees 110% on a government shut down, invading Iraq, what to do about health care or yes even a naked haunted house.

So maybe this topic is beat into the graveyard. No matter I make bad decisions as well many I wish I can take back, and I'm glad and proud that many of us can disagree on this issue and many others. When you follow these threads it makes you consider all the angles... I've changed my view many times from reading everyones comments. So I think the discussion is a success despite a couple guys turning it into a personal attack thread. Do I think Pats a fool as the title states... yes I do! He's been doing this long enough he should have thought it thru a bit better... he didn't but just like the title of this thread, just like the topic of a naked haunt it got people to read it, think about it and discuss it. The next big gimmick could be around the corner and I'm sure that will be beaten into the ground on the same level as this one. We've seen it before we'll see it again.

no one here has disputed that larry has done great positive things to help this industry..

i will defend u on that anytime...and i will show appreciation to anyone that helps send people to haunted houses...but again my point is simple

why hate ? a good discussion doesn't involve character attacks....so we git it..u and darky hate the man....i know u agree 110% and i for one appreciate you editing your very sad idiot comment...but

thinks it hurt haunts....when the fact is plain as the hand on your face....if u truly appreciate discussion why do this ??? dont turn this into pat this is your place sir..u control the masses and the info they receive here..

in order to see the orchestra ...you must turn your back on the crowd...

Your haunt lives on the edge so I can fully understand how you appreciate someone doing something risky... and risky it was. I'm betting the city came to him and said no naked haunt or no haunt period. The PR was not positive it was negative and for someone running an association shouldn't be doing things so distasteful. I'm not slamming him I'm offering my opinion as you have on the topic. Again as I've said already some of us will have to agree to disagree. I feel this discussion was very helpful for future haunters thinking of doing wild ideas... if you are one of the people who think wow this was great someone might do something even more outlandish where will it end.

Folks no matter how you want to spin this ... this backfired. It did not promote his haunt it promoted the concept of a naked haunt, and in the end his community rejected it, his city officials as I predicted rejected it, and when it was all said and done the naked haunt was closed. I believe and I'm pretty sure I'm right here... people said they won't visit this haunt because they don't want to walk through naked misunderstanding what was going on because you can't really control PR btw, some just 110% appalled by the idea probably said we'll go elsewhere to a haunt where people aren't running around naked, and the people who had a curiosity aren't coming because there is no naked haunt anymore, in some ways that can be perceived as that haunt closed.

This isn't bashing its pointing out facts... and I hope haunters can learn from this mistake. I'm just glad I didn't make this mistake and we move past it.

Larry, my comment had you as one, but not all, of an expanding but limited group that are, and have been doing stuff, and changing directions on issues in haunting.

Yes, you started the thread about a concept. It has been lively. There have been statements made by you and others that were attacks, rather than discussion about the issue or argument. You can't deny that you delete and rewrite posts.

You would be better to continue to try to stay on discussion than to go off the deep end like you used to and is pretty infrequent now. We all learn with age and money spent, right?

Discussion is good. The groupon thread a while back was good.

There isn't much left to invent in haunting, just new ways to present it.

In one picture two guys are touching each other with shirts off ... what does that have to do with HALLOWEEN??

Its Halloween season... so even though I feel what he's done a disgrace to our industry I'm going to delete several aspects of this thread and freeze it. I'm getting a zillion calls from people who want to talk positive PR for this industry. I'm going to focus on that and let the naked nightmare die.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying on this issue. But, I do think the post title could have been something like Naked haunted house good idea or bad? Instead of starting right out by name calling. (Idiot) This just gave permission for everyone to attack this guy. You have made it clear that you have personal and professional problems with this guy and it seems almost that your encouraging people who have probably never even heard of him before to attack him on a personal level. I am pretty sure if he was one of your friends, you would not have started this thread, or at least it would have been approached in a different way. I think you probably would have still said you think it's a horrible idea, but I doubt you would have let the personal attacks go on this long.

Now, on the associations web site you point out that his links may not be appropriate or for the betterment of the industry. Maybe not, but don't forget, many people in the industry think of you as an industry leader way more than Pat. In fact, I would say before this whole naked haunt thing, most members of this web site never even heard of him. But everyone knows who you are and what this web site is all about, would you not agree? I would say that many of the banner links here also have nothing to do with the industry or seem appropriate for this site including cell phone ads, Meijer ads and oh yeah clothing store ads just too name a few. You do this to help offset the cost of running this site in some small way. Maybe that's all he is doing.

Look, I have never met Pat or been to his haunt. I think that the idea was a very bad one that if anything, put yet another black eye on the industry. I have commented on his Facebook page several times on why I this it's a bad idea. In fact, one of my posts even made it on GMA. But, I am just getting so sick of people being allowed to post any kind of negative, hurtful, unprofessional, even bordering on slanderous things on the site these days. A few years ago you never would have allowed this type of stuff to go on.

I myself went through a ton of bashing, name calling and horrible things being said about me on this site. It hurt me deep after being a part of this site since near the beginning bringing my opinions and offering advice and suggestions from my 27 year experience in this industry. Have I ever been negative on here? Sure, and most of the time you called me out on it. Even after the pounding I took on here a couple months ago and swearing I would never offer anymore advice to anyone, I still continued to respond to people who asked me for my help. That is the kind of person that I am.

You are saying as a voice of the industry he should never have done this and I agree. I say you are much more of a voice for the industry then him and it does not look very professional on your part to allow the bashing all the time that takes place on the site. I would say that I know you are a very busy person and might miss some of these issues from time to time and that's why you have admin's to help you out. But not when some of them even contribute to the bashing of people as in my case.

These are just my opinions. I have always respected the efforts you make for the betterment of the haunt industry, even if I don't agree with all of them. But this type of negative banter back and forth on this issue seems way out of hand at this point. The issue has also been beat to death now. It just seems to repeating the same thing over and over. The only reason to keep it going seems to be just to keep beating him up.

I did not mean any disrespect to anyone for my comments. It's sad that I feel the need to say that after anytime I post anything anymore. But everyone seems to get so hostile when they don't agree with someone that it's safer to say that before ending a post.