Second-Generation Identity Card

I finally took pictures at the Security Office, to get my second generation ID card. I having used the plastic ID card for 10 years, since 1995, now I am forced to use the second-generation. I don’t like change, so I didn’t volunteer to get one, until recently. When we go to update my Kukou booklet, they printed out the booklet, but asked me to upgrade my ID card, otherwise, they will hold the Hukou book. Today, after paying 20 RMB for taking pictures, and I got my Hukou book.

My new ID will be ready after 60 days. As an IT industry professional, I don’t understand why it takes so long to get a card. However, it is one of the key advantage to upgrade to the second generation card that the processing and manufacturing time has been reduced from 90 days to 60 days.

The new card will have contact-less IC card embedded in it, so it can be ready by computer system. Waiting to see what will happen after 60 days.

“How can I cancel one time?” – by clicking only once the next time hehe ;) Nah seriously, you can’t edit/delete the comments you’ve already made.

A bit offtopic but it is something I was wondering about earlier. Jian Shuo, isn’t it possible to make a user registration part on your website and still keeping the current system as well for comment posting? The registration part could be used for things like editting your own comments and such..

I have had it a few times that I saw weird typos from my own and that I wanted to edit them, but there is no possibility for it atm.

And when you also keep the comment posting as it is now, next to the registrational part, it wont scare users away either.

solopolo, it may be several reasons. I implemented the anti-spam feature of MovableType. It judges spam by several rules:

1. Number of links. If there are too many links in the post, it treat it as a spam. Typically, spam comments contains 10+ links

2. Repeated post – if post comments very frequently with very short interval.

3. Post from IP that is recorded in international spam organizations. It queries the public database to see if the IP posting the comments was blocked by majority of sites.

Any of the reasons may trigger the anti-spam engine.

I don’t block any email, or people. I don’t want to do that (although I reserve all rights to do what I think is good for the community of this site). If any comment is blocked, try to post it again. I am sorry that it may falsely blocked some comments, but compared to several thousand spam attempt to this blog everyday, I am pretty satisified with the result.

“I don’t know if there’s any other country in the world that would charge the public for their first (or to upgrade to “new generation”) id card.”

In the United States, there is always a fee, which varies by state. In the state of Pennsylvania, where I live now, the fee is $10 (about 68 yuan) the first time, and every time you renew it (about every 5 years, unless you change to a driving license, which costs more). In California, where I come from, it is $21 ($168 yuan), although you can get one for only $6 (48 yuan) if you can prove that you have a very low income.

Is there any country where there is no charge for the official ID? I think having to pay is more common than getting one for “free” from the government.

The new 2G ID card has tracking ability? This is amazing! They must installed radio beacon into the card. Technology is so advance in China now!

My new driver license also has an IC embedded in it, when someone violate the traffic regulation, the traffic police only need to swipe the license against the mobile computer and the citation is printed right in front of the violator, that makes the police’s and the violator’s life much easier.

The original content of this comment was removed due to complain by community members to be libel. If the author think the original comment was reasonable, and should NOT be removed, plesae send your complain to jianshuo at hotmail dot com

Pesci posted libellous comments on this blog about a prominent expatriate businessman. To avoid being reported to the NRC I suggest you remove them. It would be a good idea if you moderated this blog better in future to weed out libellous statements being placed here by your readers. I will check back on this blog in 4 days to see if you have.

I did see your comment. However, it is my policy not to remove any comment on this blog, as long as it is legal, not spam and not meaningless. If there is any evidence about illegal, spaming, or comments that is not approperiate on this blog, please report to me by writing to me at jianshuo at hotmali dot com. No evidence, no removal.

It’s obvious Pesci has a problem. Chris has been in China a long time and in any event China started issuing green cards to foreigners over two years ago. Posting comments attacking foreign investors in China on your site diminishes your credibility. I’m letting Chris know this comment is here and I would suggest that having Chinese people libelling foreigners on your blog is not a smart thing to allow. Attacking foreigners with legitimate tax paying businesses is wrong and hurtful to his Chinese staff and China. He is a respected businessman in China and doesn’t deserve to be libelled like this on your blog. You can’t permit libellous statements on your website attacking foreign businesspeople. If you do then I think some of the international news agencies will be interested in the political dimension of Chinese run blogs libelling foreigners in China, especially following the recent Chinabounder debates and the consequences of that. So is this blog pro-foreigner or anti-foreigner? JianShuo Wangs actions will tell us.

Laowai2, I am a strong supporter for freedom of speech, which is really not easy in China. There are just enough censorship going around everywhere, so I took relatively less moderation approach.

To be honest, I have no idea about what Pesci is talking about. I didn’t see anything in my post, or other’s post before him/her that is related to this comment. Please correct me if it is wrong.

If people just came to the site and randly post something not related to the post itself, I will actively remove it. I call it spam.

If Pesci is talking something related to this entry (Second Generation ID card), and is saying something bad about another person, please give me some evidence so I can make decisions. Currently, I have no clue at all about what this is all about.

On Anti-Foreigner, or Pro-foreigner, I always use the rule set by Martin-Lurther King: people should be judged by their characters instead of anything else. I don’t delete any post because it is posted by foreigners, Chinese, black, yellow. The only guideline is, it is the right or wrong comment. I won’t delete any comments just because he/she is foreigner, or leave a comment there just because he/she is a foreigner.

For negative comments, I have many negative feedback on this blog (including myself). It think as long as he/she is telling the truth, it is OK. In most cases, I cannot tell who is telling the truth, so please debate on the thread instead of asking me to remove previous comment.

But you haven’t removed it have you? You’ve done nothing. Which by implication means you support the libel. Freedom of speech doesn’t mean you can post lies and libellous statements about individual people on a public forum. In the West, you can be sued for damages. If there is a complaint – which there obviously is – you should remove the offending post. If not you are seen to support the comments. It’s up to YOU to moderate your blog properly. If you want people to be able to post libelous statements on it then that affects your own credibility.

This is yet another example of Chinese blogs being used to post anti-foreigner remarks. China wants the foreign investment, but it doesn’t want foreigners to actually be sucessful here. Its an increasing trend to post damaging remarks about foreigners on Chinese blogs and websites. Its a shame to see this blog being used to attack and libel foreign businessmen.

Wang you have an ethical decision to make here. It’s hardly Chris’s fault someone posts bad things about him. Probably a jealous competitor or ex-member of staff with a grudge. But if its libellous you should remove it if you are asked to, not claim ‘freedom of speech’. He happens to be a well known and well respected businessman here with a large consulting firm and publishing company. Hes been in China a long time and employs a lot of Chinese. As far as I understand he is a lawyer but his firm actually deals in foreign investment tax matters. I’ve attended several of his conferences. Basically a guy that is good for China. So are you going to support him or support Pescis comments?

What you do affects how people view your blog as being anti-foreign or not. “Freedom of speech” is not an excuse to sit back and do nothing when someone has been libelled on your website. Think about it.

Fair enough. It SEEMS to me that the original post to be libel. Simple. I removed the origional content and created a copy of it. Pesci, if you feel that you have evidence to support what you said, please contact me at jianshou at hotmail dot com.

“Pesci” posts under an assumed name not his own and disses a prominent foreigner businessman here. What do we know about Pesci ? Nothing. What do we know about the person he libelled? Plenty. Pretty much most of which shows up Pescis comments to have been nothing but deliberate trash talk. If “Pesci” had the balls to tell us who HE really is then it might get interesting to find out the REAL motive behind his comments.

You can’t trust people posting here under assumed names when they attack real life individuals. Pleased to see common sense returning to this blog.

Chris Devonshire-Ellis does a lot for China and for other businesspeople here. His China Briefing magazine – which is excellent – is free and he also puts out the free ChinaExpat magazine and website did you know that? He not just makes money from China by providing consulting services and bringing in foreiugn investment he employs many Chinese here AND also takes time to give something back. Now how many expat lawyers can you say that about?

Keep up the good work Devonshire Ellis and don’t let the jealous assholes elsewhere in China get you down. If anyone deserves a medal for his work in China promotions and international trade it is this guy.

Marklee, thanks for your comment. Your comment gave me a little bit background about who is Chris. I know China-Briefing website very well, but had no idea about who is the person running the site. Please do not take it for granted that I know everyone in this world, even very famous persons. Please help me by provding the background as MarkLee did. Thanks.

The original content of this comment was removed due to complain by community members to be libel. If the author think the original comment was reasonable, and should NOT be removed, plesae send your complain to jianshuo at hotmail dot com

” I always use the rule set by Martin-Lurther King: people should be judged by their characters instead of anything else. I don’t delete any post because it is posted by foreigners, Chinese, black, yellow. The only guideline is, it is the right or wrong comment. I won’t delete any comments just because he/she is foreigner, or leave a comment there just because he/she is a foreigner.”

Thanks Jianshuo.. its one of the traits of character that makes your blog good.

I think you caught in the middle of this persons internet campaign and the debunkers who follow him. It is played on a few other sites.

That’s seriously libellous. Is no-one moderating this blog? This sort of comment gives China blogging a bad name and should not even be entertained here. It’s expressly designed to make Chris’s name appear badly in search engine results and should be editted. This man is one of China’s most prominent lawyers you shouldn’t be running this sort of stupid personal comment about him or anyone else on this site. I would suggest taking this sort of trash talk down immediately and start paying attention to some moderation on this blog. Is this how Chinese people want to be seen in the West ? Attacking foreign businessmen by posting a lot of lies?

Its a bit much really. The bloke is one of the most hardworking publishers of legal and tax papers in China. I wonder who Mary Lou Chan is? Whoever it is, Chris does this: http://www.china-briefing.com, http://www.chinaexpat.com and runs a national tax practice: http://www.dezshira.com as well as gets to have business in India and his blog: http://www.2point6billion.com which if I may say so appears to be far better moderated and sensible than this one. That much we already know as fact, and I can’t see any problems with him having his photo in his own magazine in he wants to. He owns it after all. So who are YOU, Mary Lou Chan? Maybe someone with a grudge because he didn’t give you a job or maybe you’re just jealous. Because high school drop outs don’t end up running businesses like that. So whats your story? Did he turn you down for a date? Or are you just one of his competitors that are finding it tough? Or maybe you just don’t like him. But even so, you have to respect a man who does all that and runs a decent business. So WHO ARE YOU ? Hiding behind a false name, I’m sure of that. Oh – and incidentally – if you didn’t already know – he’s not in China these days in any event. He’s setting up his firm in Delhi and Bombay if you care to read the national press and bother to watch the TV. I don’t think he even manages his China business any more – there’s an Italian partner that does that these days. Chris in India expanding from China was all in Shanghai Daily, China Daily and CCTV this last two weeks if you could read. Or maybe thats what sparked this little spat of jealousy?

We have a game at the Long Bar, when we get a China-Briefing (which is in the loo, by the toliet, some great magazine) we take it out and everyone has to drink as many times as his name is mentioned and his picture appears. Wow, nobody can remain sober.

The pathetic things some people do to amuse themselves. Honestly – why is this sort of stupid comment on this blog? Isn’t there someone here to check against this sort of rubbish being posted on Chinese blogs? It’s idiotic and stupid and almost certainly slandering other people. Whoeever owns this site – your doing yourself no favors by having comments like this on your blog.

There are two sides, as always to the on-going debate over censorship in China and the right to access the worldwideweb. Blogging in China has also taken on huge proportions – literally hundreds of millions of people out there commenting. Microsoft, Google and Yahoo have all had to bow to pressure from the Chinese government, when agreeing to ban threads or posts upon request or containing offensive material. It seems draconian in todays more liberal China, and perhaps unnecessary. However, consider the alternatives; in a one party state, mass communication can be incited and lead to riots not in the interest of the Chinese nation long term. Are indeed, the Chinese ready for such freedoms of expression ?

I can speak first hand on my experience. Regrettably in China, one occasionally has to deal with legal issues that crop up from time to time. With a business to protect, staff welfare to consider, and clients to look after, I have responsibilities to look after my business. Yet what has occured when I have had to issue legal proceedings against copyright infringements to protect my “China Briefing” brand against a local Shanghai company trying it on ? Yes, comments such as “If you fight us we will declare war and have this case all over the Chinese media in a bad way”. Which is exactly what has happened. No due process, no recognition of the law – just a shot gun approach that what is mine is mine and what is yours is mine too, and stuff any legal procedures designed to solve disputes. I’ll slander you if you try and take your property back.

It’s not just been resigned to the odd trademark or copyright dispute either. One small, foreign owned consulting firm has apparently taken it upon themselves to blame all their legal troubles on me – sued by their employees for non payment of salary, apparently all their woes stem from the fact they view my practice as a competing firm. The result ? Blogs and forum postings on various China blogs and social commentary websites that libel both myself and my businesses.

There are even attempts to justify it. Posted after libellous statements appeared on a Chinese blog run by a Mr. Wang Jian Shuo, justification not to remove such comments as follows:

” I always use the rule set by Martin-Lurther King: people should be judged by their characters instead of anything else. I don’t delete any post because it is posted by foreigners, Chinese, black, yellow. The only guideline is, it is the right or wrong comment. I won’t delete any comments just because he/she is foreigner, or leave a comment there just because he/she is a foreigner.”

Apparently it’s OK to libel ‘foreigners’ and not remove offensive posts about them because, well, this is China, it’s a Chinese blog, and they are ‘foreigners’. So thats all right then. One rule for China, another for everyone else in the blogosphere.

While most of the sites that run such comments have complied and removed any offensive remarks, I must admit I am concerned about some of the world wide web and Chinese participation issues. For sure, blogging seems to be an accepted route whereby if you don’t like someone or something, well, you can just libel them. Or if you have a dispute with someones business, well, hell, just go ahead and post lies and try and inflict damage online. People hide behind identities and post what they want. Or, in my case, the story that I am apparently such an ego-maniac that, in the Long Bar, a group of people, when my “China Briefing” magazine appears, bet drinks on how many times my photo appears – ridiculing both myself and my business. That comment actually I find pretty funny (my photo has appeared once in each issue in the introductory section the last 11 months, although the May China Briefing sees an addtional six of me with various Chinese Ministers – so get those bets in quickly). Thats OK, and I find it mildly amusing. What is not OK is to then go on and tell lies about my business and personal life in the same piece. It’s libel, it’s immature, and it says a lot about why the Chinese government are so concerned about blogging. Maybe they know the Chinese people well, and that in 2007 they are not actually ready yet for full online exposure to the world wide web.

From my experiences, when blogging in China is used to defame other competing businesses, people you don’t like, and to threaten “an online war” if involved in seeking copyright protection from brands that are being infringed by Chinese companies and individuals, maybe, just maybe, the Chinese government is right.

For people such as “AllKnowingEye”, “Mary Lou Chen”, “Henry Chinaski”, and others – the damage you do in libelling people online is holding your own country back years in online freedoms. You can libel me, to be frank I doubt it would make much difference to my business – but in acting the way you do you cause damage to the governments abilities to give up more freedoms, inhibits your own lives, and I find that rather sad.

Rather good comments on the situation. The answer has to be self moderation or sites like this are screwed.

Chris Devonshire also publishes http://www.mongoliaexpat.com which is pretty fucking cool man. I don’t know who the crap people like Mary Lou Chan think they are but they don’t belong on places like this. Take your crap shit fuck attitude outta my face and stop dissing geezers like him. He’s cool. You’re not. Get over it. l

I read the comments on this site about Chris his problems with web bloggers posting messages about him. However would there maybe a link between this and the comments he has been posting himself? I do not mean internet comments but reading his blog he directly attacks in one of his postings the British Chamber of Commerce. I would imagine that such comments do not fall from the sky and that the responses must have something to do with his own behavior in the business community. Attacking the British Chamber and especially people within it and maybe on other occasions in other postings or chats one might expect people not to sit idle by. That does not mean that postings would be directly from the British Chamber but how you treat one person or group of people might be indicative of how you have been dealing with others too. I doubt if this is just jealousy of competitors there must be a couple of other issues and people who want to deal with you. The letter of Chris that he is a victim of such a terrible crowd I see as a case of crocodile tears. Common Chris. Be a man and admit that you might have started something with your writings and do better in the future. Anonymous postings (strangely always the beginning of the thread) with references to your own writings ….. what would you expect? You won’t hear me say that you haven’t done a good job and that your magazines aren’t any good. But then playing the poor man who is being bullied online is rather pathetic. Common there is plenty to do, more magazines, an India business etc. You have shown continious improvement in quality and information for the community in China. Just do not get distracted from your work and keep going!! Keep your chin up and provide us with more information that we can use in our jobs.