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Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by garm1and

I've read that Field Marshal Guderian halted his forces outside of Dunkirk because he was opposed to inflicting a bloodbath on the BEF. Also there was probably no practical way that he could make them all prisoners. Thoughts anyone?

I've got nothing in terms of info on this but I would like to think it true. On another note, I am really looking forward to Christopher Nolan's "Dunkirk" due out next year. I just hope he can do it justice.

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by imi

because Hitler was generous

There is a theory that old Adolf halted the panzers in order to get a hold of his increasingly unruly generals and as a way to reestablish Nazi Party control over the military and so that the Battle would be seen as a Nazi victory rather than a purely German Wehrmacht one. Goering also lied to Hitler routinely and over estimateed and oversold his Luftwaffe's ability to annihilate the garrisons at Dunkirk and to prevent a naval evacuation. In The Blitzkrieg Legend, Karl-Heinz Frieser states this coming largely from a German post-war military (hindsight) point of view. I myself don't particularly agree and think there were many reasons the Germans halted already stated in this thread. Not least of which was the Battle of Arras that unnerved the German command quite a bit and the lingering fear that the Allies had something of a surprise up their sleeve are probably more plausible. Also, the Germans didn't think the Allies would be able to evacuate because they had no similar capability so in an odd way it was difficult for the Germans envision things in purely naval terms as the Kriegsmarine was weak and they had little amphibious warfare experience and they often failed to accurately account for the British naval and shipping capabilities....

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

I heard that Hitler did not want to inflict a catastrophe on his British "cousins", thought that they would eventually come to terms, and thus ordered the halt. Plus the blowhard Goering insisted that his Luftwaffe could do the job of finishing off the British. In the end such actions proved devastating - to the Germans themselves.

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by Laconia

I heard that Hitler did not want to inflict a catastrophe on his British "cousins", thought that they would eventually come to terms, and thus ordered the halt.....

A complete myth that has been dispelled on many levels. Hitler would alternately praise and then despise the British, he certainly had no great love for them and the premise is idiotic. The notion is based on a few speeches Hitler gave but makes no sense and is based on nothing he said or did during the battle. Secondly, the Halt! Order originated with Rundstedt, and was backed by most of the OKW based on their lack of knowledge on the tactical situation and lack of concrete information. If you want a country to sue for peace and negotiate, why the **** would you let the only well trained, experienced portion of their land forces escape?

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh

A complete myth that has been dispelled on many levels. Hitler would alternately praise and then despise the British, he certainly had no great love for them and the premise is idiotic. The notion is based on a few speeches Hitler gave but makes no sense and is based on nothing he said or did during the battle. Secondly, the Halt! Order originated with Rundstedt, and was backed by most of the OKW based on their lack of knowledge on the tactical situation and lack of concrete information. If you want a country to sue for peace and negotiate, why the **** would you let the only well trained, experienced portion of their land forces escape?

Hey, it's hard to explain many of the things the Germans did in WW2. By the time of Dunkirk, Hitler already had a lot of Europe in the bag, so letting some enemy troops get away to an island where he could finish them off if they didn't surrender was not to my mind really such a farfetched idea.

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Anyway Hitler not planned to attack France, or England before 1939
France and England attack Germany because the Germans moved into Poland to recapture old territories like Danzig (now Gdansk) which was part of the German empire, and by the Versailles Peace Treaty unlawfully handed over to the Poles after WW1 in 1920 (not to mention the dismemberment of Austro-Hungarian monarchy)
Danzig was a German city, almost 100% of the population of germans consisted at that time after Versailles Germany lost 6 million german citizen

From 1939 until 1941 Hitler constantly sought to end the war between England and Germany, but Churchill wanted to continue the war and rejected any peace treaty from Hitler

"The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
(Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by imi

Anyway Hitler not planned to attack France, or England before 1939
France and England attack Germany because the Germans moved into Poland to recapture old territories like Danzig (now Gdansk) which was part of the German empire, and by the Versailles Peace Treaty unlawfully handed over to the Poles after WW1 in 1920 (not to mention the dismemberment of Austro-Hungarian monarchy)
Danzig was a German city, almost 100% of the population of germans consisted at that time after Versailles Germany lost 6 million german citizen

From 1939 until 1941 Hitler constantly sought to end the war between England and Germany, but Churchill wanted to continue the war and rejected any peace treaty from Hitler

France and England attacked Germany? Good grief, where did you get your information? No that is not what happened. When Hitler forced the annexation of the remaining part of Czechoslovakia after he got the Sudetenland, England finally realized that Hitler was not going to be able to be appeased any longer and they would finally have to stand up to him. The whole thing was set in motion by the evil Hitler, not the British or the French. Hitler wanted a war by any means and he finally got what he wanted which led to his complete demise with him cowering in a bunker in Berlin while Russian artillery rained down all around.

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by Laconia

France and England attacked Germany? Good grief, where did you get your information? No that is not what happened. When Hitler forced the annexation of the remaining part of Czechoslovakia after he got the Sudetenland, England finally realized that Hitler was not going to be able to be appeased any longer and they would finally have to stand up to him. The whole thing was set in motion by the evil Hitler, not the British or the French. Hitler wanted a war by any means and he finally got what he wanted which led to his complete demise with him cowering in a bunker in Berlin while Russian artillery rained down all around.

Your informations is wrong about ww2 my friend, England declared war on Germany (September 3, 1939, 11 a.m.) a few hours later France also declared war on Germany (September 3, 1939, 5 p.m.)
Hitler only wants back the separated German territorries what Versailles take away from Germany like the Ruhr Area or the Sudetenland and the city of Danzig
Danzig is one of ancient german city and german territory before WW1, Hitler wants only what belongs to Germany

Hitler gives 24 hours capitulation to the Poles and under the Polish campaign another 48 hours to evacuate the civilians, but the Polish Goverment denied both the capitulation and the civilians evacuation from the strategically important cities

England and France the same day sending declaration of war to Germany only a few hours difference

Hitler before the Polish campaign, a 25-year-old peace treaty was signed between the French and Germany
And this peace treaty was infringe from the French side because France declared war on Germany, not Germany declared war on France (After the Polish campaign Hitler beat France)

From 1939 until 1941 Hitler made several peace deals to England, but Churchill denied any peace treaty only the complete withdrawal the German forces from Poland, Hitler insisted on the Danzig

The Second World War broke out due to Versailles peace treaty, and the French and English agression

"The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
(Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by imi

Your informations is wrong about ww2 my friend, England declared war on Germany (September 3, 1939, 11 a.m.) a few hours later France also declared war on Germany (September 3, 1939, 5 p.m.)
Hitler only wants back the separated German territorries what Versailles take away from Germany like the Ruhr Area or the Sudetenland and the city of Danzig
Danzig is one of ancient german city and german territory before WW1, Hitler wants only what belongs to Germany

Hitler gives 24 hours capitulation to the Poles and under the Polish campaign another 48 hours to evacuate the civilians, but the Polish Goverment denied both the capitulation and the civilians evacuation from the strategically important cities

England and France the same day sending declaration of war to Germany only a few hours difference

Hitler before the Polish campaign, a 25-year-old peace treaty was signed between the French and Germany
And this peace treaty was infringe from the French side because France declared war on Germany, not Germany declared war on France (After the Polish campaign Hitler beat France)

From 1939 until 1941 Hitler made several peace deals to England, but Churchill denied any peace treaty only the complete withdrawal the German forces from Poland, Hitler insisted on the Danzig

The Second World War broke out due to Versailles peace treaty, and the French and English agression

What a bunch of crap! The next thing you are going to tell us that there were no death camps either. Hitler's idea of a peace offering was accede to his demands or else. The English and French were bound by a treaty to defend Poland and with his invasion of Poland the treaty was invoked. Hitler started the war, no one else.

If Hitler only wanted what was Germany's, why did he take the rest of Czechoslovakia besides the Sudetenland? And the rest of Poland besides Danzig? And how about Norway, was that once German too? Belgium? The Netherlands?

Re: Why did Guderian stop at Dunkirk?

Originally Posted by Laconia

What a bunch of crap! The next thing you are going to tell us that there were no death camps either. Hitler's idea of a peace offering was accede to his demands or else. The English and French were bound by a treaty to defend Poland and with his invasion of Poland the treaty was invoked. Hitler started the war, no one else.

If Hitler only wanted what was Germany's, why did he take the rest of Czechoslovakia besides the Sudetenland? And the rest of Poland besides Danzig? And how about Norway, was that once German too? Belgium? The Netherlands?

- You are stupid and looks like uneducated, first you don't correctly known basic things who start the war whom

- Hitler not want war, only back the ancient city of Danzig, gives 24 hours capitulation which the Poles denied. The city of Danzig illegally taken away by the Versailles Peace Treaty (like breaking up the 72% of the Austro Hungarian Monarchy)

- We aren't speak concentration work camps, we speaking about the World War 2. You are a Jew provocateur?

- Norway and Netherland occupation was preventive action from the German side was due to a possible British invasion,the Abwerh (German Secret Services) notice Hitler, England try to design a disembarkation in these Eastern countries

- Belgium was strongly connected to Germany under Hitler leadership,in the reality was independent like Switzerland and most of the German firearms developed in Belgium before WW2

- Hitler not want to occupy whole Poland he was only interested in separated old german territorries and cities like Danzig, and he is very carefully done through the Polish campaign, the separated 6 million German population in Poland is not damaged, only military targets were attacked

Read more about the the subject and not just Jewish-English-Russian-American publications

"The consciousness that I am alive, makes me wild dreams every day"
(Helmut Wolff lieutenant colonel, one who survived the breakout of Budapest)