Originally posted by SlateGray It depends on how you define sport; I was going to choose “It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports)” until professional boxing came to mind so I settled for “Yes, it is dirty.”

Sure boxing is dirty, but there at least you always have equal equipment with your opponent.

Originally posted by SlateGray It depends on how you define sport; I was going to choose “It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports)” until professional boxing came to mind so I settled for “Yes, it is dirty.”

I am not defining the sport... i am not defining anything. I am referring to the business around the sport. So not the on track duels between drivers and teams (or races) but the "business" surrounding it.

Yes, thinking of boxing promoter Don King, I would immediately think boxing has had corrupt business men.

Looking at football and transfer of players between teams and the transfer market etc, prize money involved etc I think its reasonably transparent.

Golf with prize money is also pretty transparent. The entry rules of players at the top level of golf is transparent too.

I still find it amazing that Dave Richards with the millions of backing he could put together still will not make it on the 2008 grid. So something is smelling bad... The recent dealings surrounding Stepney... if he did something wrong, ban him. Not banning him raises questions.. But I dont want this thread to be on Stepney.

Perhaps cricket and betting business around it make things a bit uneasy. Also cycling and doctors and doping... extremely negative image.

1) the level of transparency: distribution of prize and tv money is unclear; entry of new teams is a mystery; why Russia could get a GP and rich in tradition and history venues like Silverstone and Spa (are) could disappear(ing);2) equality between the participants (i.e. teams and drivers): if Mclaren belongs at the end of the pitlane why arent they there;

I am not for or against Mclaren, or Ferrari, or anyone... these are just things that happen, and it raises questions about consistency of ruling and governing.

We have annually the tradition by Mr. Ecclestone of him taking hostage of the GP's on calendars and claiming that there are better and more exiting venues... now its becoming a normality. We call him the F1 supremo but in other cultures doing the same things he could be called a mafia boss.

Originally posted by glorius&victorius 1) the level of transparency: distribution of prize and tv money is unclear; entry of new teams is a mystery; why Russia could get a GP and Silverstone could disappear;

I'm sorry, but I don't find any of that dirty one bit. True, the orginasiaton of Foruma 1 as such, leaves a great deal to be desired, but, dirty, no, I can't agree to that.

2) equality between the participants (i.e. teams and drivers): if Mclaren belongs at the end of the pitlane why arent they there;

Why McLaren aren't at the right end of the cue, I can't answer, but then again, I can't answer why Ferrari get a 100 million dollars subsidy for their contribution of the sport either. Take it or leave it, it's either all, or it's nothing. I can't find anything dirty about those instances either, it's just how the sport has evolved.

We have annually the tradition by Mr. Ecclestone of him taking hostage of the GP's on calendars and claiming that there are better and more exiting venues... now its becoming a normality. We call him the F1 supremo but in other cultures doing the same things he could be called a mafia boss.

Well, Bernard is a businessman, and like businessmen do, they exploit for their own profit. It has been like that for thousands of years and it will be like that for another thousands of years. Nothing new under the sun. But dirty, no, it's not.

What's dirty, is Marion Jones, but she was just a competitor, her cheating doesn't make the sport dirty itself. And personally, I have completely given up on cycling. Following that sport is just like Russian roulette; if you win it's all dandy and happy days, if you lose, it all crashes down on you like a meteor.

I voted for "On occassion it is, but it could be more transparent", on the basis that the majority of it isn't dirty at all.

Don't forget that we hear about and talk about the dirty stuff more than anything else for the very reason that it IS dirty.

What we don't talk about are the thousands of above-board, completely legal, ethically sound business dealings that happen every year, by every team.

The thousands of sponsorship agreements between Ferrari and their sponsors. The thousands of supplier agreements between McLaren and their partners. The thousands of employment agreements between BMW and their employees. The list goes on.

For every "dirty" act in F1, there are dozens of "clean" ones.

So I would say that on balance it's cleaner than we think.

But it certainly has its dirty side, and I'd agree that there's still more of it than in most sports, and a lot of those cases are dirtier than others as well.

It's part of what F1 is about, like it or not. It's been dirty since it began. But just the right amount of dirty ;)

Well, its certainly not transparently clean, but whether it is really any dirtier and underhand than any other top level sport, I rather doubt. Look at drugs in cycling and athletics, corruption in the olympics, dodgy transfer deals and bungs in football.... all professional sport has a nasty underside if you look closely enough. Such is life. And it's nothing new either, whatever anyone may tell you.

again I am not looking at the players, or drivers, or the sportsmen and their conduct on the pitch, or on the track... but the business around the sport.

Well, you have the Olympics going to a country that'll drug you into a clinic for a forced abortion if you're pregnant for a second time, you have the FA cosying up to a man who engineered millions of pounds for his son's travel agency in order to grab North American votes for a World Cup bid, you have an athlete threatening to sue the British Olympic Authority because they had the temerity to ban him for steroid abuse, you have Bangladesh included as a test nation even though they're on a level with Rutland to placade the other Subcontinental teams, you have leagues in all forms of rugby that bar relegation so an unelected cartel can preserve their precious corporate hospitality...

F1 is like any business. You do a deal with the Devil's minions if you think someone else will otherwise do you over.

Do we hear fans complaining about Silverstone, do we hear teams complaining about Silverstone? I think everybody looks forward to the British GP in this historic place. It may look a bit run-down but thats part of the attraction. To only have GP's run in places with facilities with that look like the Mclaren Technology Centre is also very monotonous.

As for Melbourne, I and for sure many other fans, just enjoy waking up in the middle of the night to watch that first GP of the year. Nothing better than that.

I wish Mr. Ecclestone would just come forward and say: they don't pay enough, so I will drop them.

by the way isn't it interesting to see that 70 % thinks the business around the sport is dirty (ranging from dirty to dirtiest)

Again "dirty" is not a objective scientific measure.... just an indication of how people view things.

As a business, I think it's handled well. I think Bernie and FOM would be under more scrutiny from authorities if he handled things in an underhanded manner. We may frown down upon his way of doing business, but I think the structure of the businesses, the flow of the money, and the sort, are all handled fairly.

The "dirty" part I can only think of is the Concorde Agreement. It's so hard to really know how anything within the sport truly works.