We are working through switching from livevault to unitrends. At the same time we are virtualizing nearly all of our 15 servers with vmware essentials and then going to use veeam with their cdp and replication functionality as a type of "HA" for our direct storage hosts, instead of going the essentials plus with vsa route.

My question is: is this overkill to have veeam doing backups as well as unitrends? We are primarily looking at the unitrends solution to provide the offsite component using their Vault2Cloud feature.

It seems like Veeam has unitrends beat on the onsite, cdp, replication side.

But Unitrends fills the necessary component to get backups offsite since we do not have a DR site.

The two seem a good fit, but I don't know if anyone out there is doing anything similar?

In a way it does seem like a bit of overkill but I see where you are going with this. I know that with Veeam you can have it replicate from your main host server to another server as a redundant / HA type setup, why not just get another storage server & some rackspace somewhere? They also have some sort of integration with CloudArray that looks pretty good.

That said, I am a fan of the Unitrends approach, their all inclusive licensing model & the single place for everything really works for me. I guess the question is do you actually NEED the HA functionality or would it be better / cheaper to use vMotion to migrate guests around & Unitrends for backup?

23 Replies

In a way it does seem like a bit of overkill but I see where you are going with this. I know that with Veeam you can have it replicate from your main host server to another server as a redundant / HA type setup, why not just get another storage server & some rackspace somewhere? They also have some sort of integration with CloudArray that looks pretty good.

That said, I am a fan of the Unitrends approach, their all inclusive licensing model & the single place for everything really works for me. I guess the question is do you actually NEED the HA functionality or would it be better / cheaper to use vMotion to migrate guests around & Unitrends for backup?

We have looked at hosted space, but the problem is that in a DR situation it makes a lot more sense to have a unit with our data loaded shipped to us, instead of having to rely on our limited bandwidth to restore each machine through the wire. Also with Unitrends we can seed the data instead of sending our initial data through the wire. This is the major case for unitrends...

As far as the cloudarray it seems like a good integrated solution, but the I think it is well out of our budget for the project

Essentially, Unitrends can replace Veeam for you. Our support extends beyond what Veeam Backup & replication provides. Unitrends can either be the primary storage for your Veeam backups, or you can use Unitrends to backup Veeam backups for archiving & DR. Additionally, we provide the same functionality as far as snapshoting VMWare, which can eliminate your need for Veeam licensing.

Essentially, Unitrends can replace Veeam for you. Our support extends beyond what Veeam Backup & replication provides. Unitrends can either be the primary storage for your Veeam backups, or you can use Unitrends to backup Veeam backups for archiving & DR. Additionally, we provide the same functionality as far as snapshoting VMWare, which can eliminate your need for Veeam licensing.

The only thing it is missing is the HA part, being able to replicate / move the virtual server to another box. Is there any news on when / if you will be able to fire up a backup of a server directly on the unitrends appliance while you are in the process of replacing / fixing the host server?

Essentially, Unitrends can replace Veeam for you. Our support extends beyond what Veeam Backup & replication provides. Unitrends can either be the primary storage for your Veeam backups, or you can use Unitrends to backup Veeam backups for archiving & DR. Additionally, we provide the same functionality as far as snapshoting VMWare, which can eliminate your need for Veeam licensing.

The only thing it is missing is the HA part, being able to replicate / move the virtual server to another box. Is there any news on when / if you will be able to fire up a backup of a server directly on the unitrends appliance while you are in the process of replacing / fixing the host server?

"I'll make the first public announcement we've made on this. In a few months (Q4-2011), Unitrends will offer failover virtualization for Windows and for VMware. In other words, your physical Windows server and/or your VMware virtual machines will be able to failover to the same physical backup appliance and run from the backup appliance itself (i.e., not physical similar or dissimilar bare metal chassis is needed to run the Windows or virtual machine.)"

CA ARCserve r16 features Virtual Standby capabilities and the ability to Replicate to Cloud. This is in line with our Hybrid Approach to Data Protection (Local + Cloud). The trials for the latest release are posted.

"I'll make the first public announcement we've made on this. In a few months (Q4-2011), Unitrends will offer failover virtualization for Windows and for VMware. In other words, your physical Windows server and/or your VMware virtual machines will be able to failover to the same physical backup appliance and run from the backup appliance itself (i.e., not physical similar or dissimilar bare metal chassis is needed to run the Windows or virtual machine.)"

Essentially, Unitrends can replace Veeam for you. Our support extends beyond what Veeam Backup & replication provides. Unitrends can either be the primary storage for your Veeam backups, or you can use Unitrends to backup Veeam backups for archiving & DR. Additionally, we provide the same functionality as far as snapshoting VMWare, which can eliminate your need for Veeam licensing.

Well, replace it with Unitrends licensing, right? I mean, with Veeam, I'm controlling the size and sourcing of my storage. With Unitrends, I have to buy it from Unitrends, right?

Well, replace it with Unitrends licensing, right? I mean, with Veeam, I'm controlling the size and sourcing of my storage. With Unitrends, I have to buy it from Unitrends, right?

Not if you use the virtual appliance & run it on an ESX /ESXi box, then you can have as much storage as you like, wherever you like. That said, I do believe they do license the virtual appliance by capacity, per 1TB I think but cant link to that directly. Which makes sense, otherwise everyone would buy the basic [cheapest] virtual appliance, get the cheapest server they could, fill up on as many drives as they could & spend their days playing Halo & eating pizza. Wait, that sounds like a great idea!!

Well, replace it with Unitrends licensing, right? I mean, with Veeam, I'm controlling the size and sourcing of my storage. With Unitrends, I have to buy it from Unitrends, right?

Not if you use the virtual appliance & run it on an ESX /ESXi box, then you can have as much storage as you like, wherever you like. That said, I do believe they do license the virtual appliance by capacity, per 1TB I think but cant link to that directly. Which makes sense, otherwise everyone would buy the basic [cheapest] virtual appliance, get the cheapest server they could, fill up on as many drives as they could & spend their days playing Halo & eating pizza. Wait, that sounds like a great idea!!

Well, that's annoying. I can understand licensing remote storage. I can understand paying for super-amazing hardware that they guarantee. But an appliance who's underlying storage I have to guarantee?

Well, that's annoying. I can understand licensing remote storage. I can understand paying for super-amazing hardware that they guarantee. But an appliance who's underlying storage I have to guarantee?

I can see the business case for it, they are still supplying all the support etc. & they wouldn't want to price themselves out of business!! Also I know the virtual appliance is limited to 10TB of data [deduped backup data that is] so that the appliance is not over extending itself. After that you need a second virtual appliance, adding another 8 concurrent processes, plus storage for that machine. I don't know what the pricing is like on that, but it could be worth a look if you have a lot of capacity available.

Multiple appliances, both physical & virtual, are all managed through the one interface, so in that way at least it does not matter how many appliances you have or where.

Well, replace it with Unitrends licensing, right? I mean, with Veeam, I'm controlling the size and sourcing of my storage. With Unitrends, I have to buy it from Unitrends, right?

Not if you use the virtual appliance & run it on an ESX /ESXi box, then you can have as much storage as you like, wherever you like. That said, I do believe they do license the virtual appliance by capacity, per 1TB I think but cant link to that directly. Which makes sense, otherwise everyone would buy the basic [cheapest] virtual appliance, get the cheapest server they could, fill up on as many drives as they could & spend their days playing Halo & eating pizza. Wait, that sounds like a great idea!!

Well, that's annoying. I can understand licensing remote storage. I can understand paying for super-amazing hardware that they guarantee. But an appliance who's underlying storage I have to guarantee?

Our Virtual Appliance and our Physical Appliances offer different values to different companies - the Physical Appliances take all of the guess work out of the scenario - essentially one throat to choke, but the Virtual Appliance lets the customers utilize hardware that they have already invested in. Obviously, the Virtual Appliances cost less since we are not providing you with the hardware, but the degree of difficulty increase there.

With all that being said, there are costs associated with Veeam licensing, just like there are costs to own Unitrends, but the beauty of Unitrends is that we protect all of your environment from a single solution, not just your virtual clients. You can manage multiple Unitrends appliances from a single management GUI, so we simplify and shrink your costs associated with backup, and your processes as well. How much easier does your day get if you only have to work through a single solution for all of your backups?

I'm in the spiceworks trial for unitrends and have not yet purchased veeam. I am going to demo the unitrends and depending on how the trial goes may or may not demo veeam with it. I am pretty sure unitrends will be a permanent part of our backup strategy.

I think the veeam decision has a lot to do with campbell's announcement about the failover capability coming in unitrends. I think that is the piece that could replace veeam in our planning.

Overall I hate taking chances in the DR/backup areana. All things considered the price of Veeam for our two VMware hosts is not too much and if there are any doubts then we will go ahead on the veeam front. With veeam's solid reputation it is hard to go wrong.

I'm hoping that the failover capability will be ready to demo before the spicetrial is up so we can all kick it around...

I'm in the spiceworks trial for unitrends and have not yet purchased veeam. I am going to demo the unitrends and depending on how the trial goes may or may not demo veeam with it. I am pretty sure unitrends will be a permanent part of our backup strategy.

I think the veeam decision has a lot to do with campbell's announcement about the failover capability coming in unitrends. I think that is the piece that could replace veeam in our planning.

Overall I hate taking chances in the DR/backup areana. All things considered the price of Veeam for our two VMware hosts is not too much and if there are any doubts then we will go ahead on the veeam front. With veeam's solid reputation it is hard to go wrong.

I'm hoping that the failover capability will be ready to demo before the spicetrial is up so we can all kick it around...

Please let me know if you have any questions at any time. We appreciate you giving us the opportunity to earn your business!

I'm in the spiceworks trial for unitrends and have not yet purchased veeam. I am going to demo the unitrends and depending on how the trial goes may or may not demo veeam with it. I am pretty sure unitrends will be a permanent part of our backup strategy.

I think the veeam decision has a lot to do with campbell's announcement about the failover capability coming in unitrends. I think that is the piece that could replace veeam in our planning.

Overall I hate taking chances in the DR/backup areana. All things considered the price of Veeam for our two VMware hosts is not too much and if there are any doubts then we will go ahead on the veeam front. With veeam's solid reputation it is hard to go wrong.

I'm hoping that the failover capability will be ready to demo before the spicetrial is up so we can all kick it around...

Thats cool, I am in the trial as well, looking forward to getting my hands on one. It would be awesome if we were able to test the fail-over to the Unitrends box piece but I doubt the desktop boxes they are sending us will be powerful enough. What would be really awesome would be to trial their VaultToCloud as well at the same time.

Please let me know if you have any questions at any time. We appreciate you giving us the opportunity to earn your business!

Katie,

Any chance of having the failover functionality ready before the spicetrial is up?

While we would have loved to have you guys be our first beta testers, we will not have that functionality out of our internal Quality Assurance testing before the SpiceTrial begins. It will be released this year, but I still don't have any more details on exact dates. We will definitely keep you updated!

1st Post

It sounds as though you are moving in a direction where leveraging the cloud would be of great benefit. I agree that using (2) separate backup-software installations to accomplish local and remote recovery capability is overkill and isn't really cost-efficient from both a capital and operating cost perspective. RobWJPR mentioned Veeam's CloudArray offering which should provide you with a rather robust solution.

CloudArray is offered in both virtual and physical appliance models - both of which would provide the end solution you are looking while seamlessly integrating into your storage environment by presenting iSCSI volumes to your backup host. Pointing your backups to CloudArray would provide both local and remote recovery as well as DR in the cloud where you could take advantage of the cloud compute environment in a disaster scenario. Moreover, CloudArray provides space-efficient cloud-based snapshots which allows for a CDP solution in the cloud and also onsite. Utilizing CloudArray's compression will also reduce your replication footprint.

The value proposition in this type of solution is that you get to choose how much of your backups remain locally resident, your backup window can be as large or small as you want, recovery can be local, remote, or in the cloud, you do not have to worry about any type of WAN/LAN acceleration since compression/deduplication are handled for each volume, and CDP becomes more flexible choosing the location of your choice without disrupting your local environment or performance. I would encourage you to try Veeam's 1TB trial and see for yourself how simple it is to deploy and how quickly your environment gains this functionality and flexibility.