Sailfish OS update Taalojärvi available now!

We’re glad to announce that the latest Sailfish OS update Taalojärvi is now available to all Jolla smartphone and tablet users!

This update is mostly a quality release containing hundreds of bug fixes, most notably in Homescreen, Connectivity and Android support. It has also some valuable new features, such as direct sharing to cloud, lockscreen media controls added for Android media apps, and the ability to show past communication logs directly in contact cards.

Rude ????? Rude is what Jolly OY started to be !!!!! They stole my money bluntly spoken. Yes, they are currently pirating. They use MY money to finance their employees to deliver to YOU software, instead of dealing with their main concern. We have every reason to be completely pissed off with Jolla. We get no information at all, what’s happening in this company. I give a FUCK to all further developments until this is tablet thing is settled and clarified !

They used OUR money to develop HIS operating system, NOT to produce promised tablets(see presentation earlier in this blog). Now, they promise refund for us, and again – full silence. Jolla never changed.

Crowdfunding was not the only financial source. Should they stop to support other devices because of trouble with the tablet? How could the tablet function without software development? It was communicated from the beginning, that crowdfunding is for tablet production AND development of SFOS 2.

They spend our money wrong way. Tablet without os – nothing, but os without hardware – nothing too, ok? They communication is wrong (only silence in this blog in half year, great). News(bankruptcy), which we has knowed from NEWS F**G PAPER, not from this blog. My expectations has been totally destroed many times. This is NOT croudfunding, this sh*t. Croudfunding – fairphone, look for contrast. Bye

Thats the difference between a successful crowdfunding and a failing one. The point is: crowdfunding can fail and there is no guaranty for success. Anyone participating should know that. You are not buying a product, you are placing a bet and can loose everything.

This is great. I’m losing my money, they – develop his sailfish os 2.0, and now they have money cow with new features, and we (who donate to tablet) – have nothing. This is croudfunding. Looks as cool business plan, right?

ScumCoder
on May 11, 2016 at 8:33 pm

> It was communicated from the beginning, that crowdfunding is for tablet production AND development of SFOS 2.

This is a blatant lie. For the Nth time: when the IGG campaign started, it did not contain a single word about software development. On the contrary, it made things look like the SW is ready and the crowdfunding is needed for manufacturing the HW only.

Not true. Your claim is complete lie. If you think like that then you really don’t know what you are talking about. It was completely clear right from the beginning that Sailfish was not ready for the tablet use and needed further development before tablet release. It was 100% clear that the growd funding was for both OS and hardware development. Jolla never said that the Sailfish would have been ready for the tablet, they never said that. It was clear that Jolla’s tablet will run Sailfish 2.0. Sailfish 2.0 did not even exist when tablet gwowd funding campaign started, so it should have been clear to everyone that their money was used for the Sailfish development too. Out of curiosity how would you used a tablet whithout any OS? Would you used as a paper weight? In that case I think it would have been cheaper to go out and pick some stone, . If you really did not understand that growd funding was for both OS and hardware development then it’s really your own fault not Jolla’s.

Rubbish. Jolla has given clear instructions for refunds earlier in this blog. If you don’t follow those instructions then it’s your own fault. And ofcourse Jolla used that money also for the Sailfish development. Tablet is always a combination of hardware and operating system. How do you expect tablet to work if it has no operating system? OS has to be ported to tablet hardware before tablet can be used. OS is absolutely essential part of the tablet product. Itäs ridiculous to whine “Jolla should not have used money for Sailfish development”. People who say that don’t seem to understand at all what they are talking about. I’m sure that if Jolla would not used have used money for the Sailfish development then you would whine: “When I turn power on tablet does nothing”. ofcourse it would not do nothing because it would not have any operating system!

No, it is you who are being rude. If you want your refund then follow the refund instructions Jolla gave to you. Constant whining in every blog article’s comments helps absolutely nothing, and is just annoying. If you have nothing else to say than whine abot refunds then say it somerhere else. E.g. this blog article is about Sailfish OS update, not about tablet refunds. Tablet refunds are completely offtopic.

This is a tablet update. The operating system is common for the phone and the tablet. And since when did Jolla state that they would cease all other activity until they have informed to everyone’s satisfaction (which seems to be impossible given all the rude comments here) about the Tablet.

There are maybe 200 people who have the tablet. It would be up to them to confirm if this update does indeed run on that device. I would suspect no and that it’s probably built only for the arm device (phone) and not intel. The tablet will forever be a second class citizen.

Since the updates include landscape mode for bluetooth pairing and file transfer dialog on the tablet, as well as bugfixes to lock screen media controls support on the tablet I am quite sure that it will run on “that device”.

Would you gius please stop stay on topic. This blog post is about Sailfish OS update, not about tablet refunds. DStop whinig in every damn blog article! Your whining is really annoying and you are making blog comments complete ynreadable rubbish. I really don’t understand your attitude. Constant whining helps nothing. Based on all the comments here most of you did not even understand what you were growd funging, or do not even understand the difference between growsd funding and buying something. Next time you are going to participate some growd funding you should firs understand what you are doing and what you are gwowd funding. You should also understand that growd funding is ALWAYS a bit risky, Jolla is NOT any exception. If you do not understand that then you really should NOT participate any growd funding no matter what company it is.

Btw not sure why they should delay that OS update before the tablet communication is ready. It will come in due course ; they mentioned an update in the run of the week and we are only Tuesday
Hate does not solve anything.
Everybody wants to know what will happen with the tablet compensation!
Complaining for the sake of complaining is useless.

Regarding SMS, did you experience any SMS sending from native OS to be sent without your acceptance? Probably not. So why are you so scared? Some android apps need to send a SMS for registration and it helps extending the android compatibility so it seems normal to me.
I can understand the need for more tuning of the Android compatibility layer but being constructive is more useful.

Why cloud is a problem for you if you do not use it? If it helps other users, why not? (I am not interested either)

in fact, they didn’t really announce anything for this week.. that was just someone quoting some IRC logs.. well of course there is the other blog posts, announcing a clearance of the tablet situation around new year’s eve..

“Complaining for the sake of complaining is useless” that’s true but that’s at least a way to get SOME satisfaction from checking the blog every 10 minutes for an update. for weeks. months, to be more precise..

“Btw not sure why they should delay that OS update before the tablet communication is ready.”

They could but it doesn’t make the community of IGG bakers to trust Jolla more…

“Regarding SMS, did you experience any SMS sending from native OS to be sent without your acceptance? Probably not.”

Of course not – I don’t use any fuck*ng Android thing. But there has been vulnerabilities in Andoroid regarding SMS’s in the past so I just really don’t trust that Jolla won’t have similar vulnerabilities.

BTW, I wouldn’y use ANY app which would force me to register or which would sent unsolicited informations to some “big brother” servers…

“Why cloud is a problem for you if you do not use it? If it helps other users, why not?”

Cloud doesn’t help any users, cloud helps only fucking evil corporations who want to get as much informations on its users as possible. Jolla really should not make such crimes possible!

if somebody plays with my trust, I have absolutely no motivation at all to congratulate the one cheating me for any success. as it presents itself now. Jolla operates with quite some criminal energy, hence I am not dealing with thieves and I am not accepting anything but a clear settlement of what they owe me before I accept they deliver software to the rest of the community. Apparently Jolla is still spending my money for salaries ? No, this is not complaining for complaining’s sake. Jolla are a bunch of liars. They cocked it up with the company producing the tablet. “together we are betrayed” !

You have absolutely destroyed your credibility and reputation with your tablet. The only thing you could do at this point would be to sell off everything you have left. Buy back the tablets from India. Send them out with an apology, and still then I don’t think your company would survive. Plan B would be to create a new company and brand it differently. Perhaps you could call it Folla.

It is right that crowdfunding always is a risky thing. However, in last post they wrote only some backers will receive the tablet. This means their crowdfunding project will become a lottery. Indiegogo explicitely forbids using their platform to organize a lottery and also Finish law has very strict requirements if you want to organize a lottery.

In their previous blog post I also made these remarks, and I also reported this potential forbidden lottery to Indiegogo, but I have received so far no feedback from both Indiegogo nor Jolla.

I still hope Jolla management will cancel their plan to convert their tablet project into a lottery and instead treat every backer fairly.

An investigation by Finish government or even a lawsuit will be bad for everyone, including Jolla’s private investors and its employees!

Wait with the accusations about lottery until you have some facts supporting that. Until then, ask them simply to provide up to date information regarding the tablets and whatever they come up with for those who will not get a tablet. It is possible to ask for that without making accusations.

I was not suggesting to wait before communicating and asking for information regarding the tablets, although I can see my post can be read like that, but writing that the tablet delivery will be a lottery when the information provided so far does not suggest anything like that is counter-productive.

sad is, when you try and don’t succeed. a crime it is when you use the backers money for things otherwise that what is backed with it. so no, it’s not sad it’s criminal. That is a very big difference !

Jolla did not mislead the backers about the use of funds at all. They told us that they would make a tablet with Sailfish OS 2.0, so it is very logical that they spent money on SFOS2.0. Further, in the diagram with cost breakdown it was very clear that they spent more money on the tablet project than they raised in the IGG campaign, so the money spent on SFOS2.0 was put in by the investors.

So what Jolaa did was: they tried and failed. Part of that was bad luck with the screen that had to be replaced. They did not mislead us. They had some lacking communication around all the delays, but they did not willingly string us along to make a profit.

The FACT is that they are trying to refund all the backers: 50% shortly, and another 50% if funds allow. They don’t have an obligation to refund, but still they persuaded the investors to give us back (some of) our money.

I suggest that all the whining little b!tches shut up and seek psychological councelling. Clearly these people have been spoilt too much in early childhood and now you cannot deal with any setbacks in life. It’s going to be hard when really bad stuff happens, so please seek councelling NOW.

Are you by chance from Greece? Because fola we call something that is used to poison stray dogs most often in a cruel and inhumane way. Also it is used metaphorically to describe something that was expected to be good but turned out to be a big disappointment… Or maybe you are from Spain where folla means nastiness, dirtiness, maliciousness; wretchedness, state of being disgusting;
annoy; (Slang) screw;
A very fitting name indeed in either case! LOL

And you are…? I know that in Norway (I presume that you are Norwegian, according by your name) things run ultra slow, but the rest of the world is not. Waiting for a year for their comment you call business…? LMAO

Despite their ridiculous unprofessional way doing their business I kept quiet. But I think now I am done with Jolla, I am just waiting to see what i am going to get instead of my tablet and my perks. Since i cannot see how they can gain our trust again, I think my wife and I will switch to the next best alternative when our Jolla phones break. The Ubuntu smartphone looks everyday a bit more tempting.

The delays have sucked, although I’m understanding about them (doesn’t mean I like them). But the last bit where they said they aren’t going to give everyone who ordered one the tablet, but “something else” is total BS. I can live with being a few more months delayed to get mine. Small company, had some financial problems, had various production problems. I get it, it happens. But not fulfilling (or fully refunding) all of the orders? Instead you’ll get some unspecified consolation prize? Nope. No good for me.

@pastio –
because they’re not using the money you paid (or the money *I* paid for the phone I also own). They’re siphoning the money from the contracts they have with us (for producing tablet hardware) to instead pay the software updates they are providing you. And that’s not what our money was supposed to be used for. This is how a Ponzi scheme is started.

I have read the terms. I have also written several times in comments that Jolla has to come up with a solution that is acceptable to (a sufficient number of) backers as an alternative to receiving the tablets since perks must be delivered according to the Indiegogo terms.

Jolla was taking pre-orders in August-September 2015 and suggesting people to pay their taxes, exactly when they (as they admitted later) were experiencing financial problems. In other words, they were taking money from NEW customers to fulfil the orders of the OLD customers. Which is the exact definition of Ponzi scheme.

Maybe it’s YOU who should try spending a little more time on the Wikipedia web site.

Jolla did not mislead the backers about the use of funds at all. They told us that they would make a tablet with Sailfish OS 2.0, so it is very logical that they spent money on SFOS2.0. Further, in the diagram with cost breakdown it was very clear that they spent more money on the tablet project than they raised in the IGG campaign, so the money spent on SFOS2.0 was put in by the investors.

So what Jolaa did was: they tried and failed. Part of that was bad luck with the screen that had to be replaced. They did not mislead us. They had some lacking communication around all the delays, but they did not willingly string us along to make a profit.

The FACT is that they are trying to refund all the backers: 50% shortly, and another 50% if funds allow. They don’t have an obligation to refund, but still they persuaded the investors to give us back (some of) our money.

I suggest that all the whining little b!tches shut up and seek psychological councelling. Clearly these people have been spoilt too much in early childhood and now you cannot deal with any setbacks in life. It’s going to be hard when really bad stuff happens, so please seek councelling NOW.

I am quite surprised that those guys were NOKIA employees. In fact, I believe that they haven’t left NOKIA, they were fired because they’ve did same sh** as they were doing now. Honestly, I cannot fuc*** believe that someone can be so cold and obviously doesn’t give a sh*** about anything but them selves. They created company and now they behave as some low level crooks. If you cannot deliver what you promised, issue a God damn refund, even if it cost your company to shut down. If you don’t know how to run the business, you don’t deserve to be on the market. This might hurt your feelings but unfortunately it is true.

Dave, please. If someone is using money for their own benefit, it is legally called embezzlement. You can interpret IGG campaign as you wish, but we all saw what was the title and description of the IGG campaign. Tablet was the primary thing why we gave our contribution, and they scre*** us. For months they were lying us with their blog posts. (if you don’t believe, please check their previous blogposts) or visit webarchive and go to their website snapshot.

@Kjetil
Jolla (in their strange English) has *already* stated that they can’t deliver tablets to every backer. When you take into consideration the fact that this way of putting it usually means “very few will get the product”, plus the fact that tens of thousands of already produced tablets are now out of Jolla’s hands and being sold by a couple of Chinese and Indian websites, it’s a fairly easy guess to assume that the vast majority will never get anything. And the money has been spent (on software development, worthless for the tablet backers w/o a tablet). It’s unlikely they will be able to get investors to fund a refund scheme – I’ve never heard about such a thing. If refund money was available then the refund would have happened already – and if you read some of the emails those requesters have received from Jolla, they (Jolla) basically state that it won’t happen, although not in so many words.

The reactions we see now shouldn’t be a surprise. For myself, I can bear the monetary loss, although with some gnashing of teeth. For others, it’ll be more painful. As I’ve said before, IGG funding does have an issue of risk, but I foolishly reasoned that a Finnish company populated with people from Nokia would be worth the trust. That was not to be. Even if a miracle happens and tablet or money arrives tomorrow, the communcation from Jolla until now has been a string of [insert here], and that’s a fact.

That’s exactly how I feel. I really trusted Jolla. Now I am mainly interested in “where did it go wrong…?”
As long as we don’t know what really happened, it is only human to suspect that Jolla made a big mistake.
However, I am still on board. Only when Jolla comes with a token compensation, I probably will change my mind. And even then I wish them happy sailing, but don’t expect that to happen…
Let’s be patient, for the last time…

A relative in Canada had a nice expression: assume makes an ass out of u and me.

You assume that “very few will get the product”. I am not saying that is the case, but I have not seen any statement saying that this is the case. Yes, I am aware not all will get it, but I have no idea whether that means only 10% will get it, or 25% or 50% or whatever.

The software improvements are of no use unless you have a device, I completely agree with that. There may be a chance to buy another tablet running the Sailfish OS, in which case you will get the benefits. Many here seem to be so angry that it will not be an option for them, but that is their choice.

Nobody are happy about paying for something they don’t get. Me neither.
The communication from Jolla has not set an example to follow, we can agree on that.

There is however, quite a leap to be made to the kind of rude behaviour and accusations you see here. I wonder where these people work? Have they have had a dissatisfied customer? Are they OK with dissatisfied customers telling them the things they write here?

No. Every time we fail to deliver in time (and sometimes we DO fail to deliver in time, when there is a custom project that has to be designed from scratch) we instantly communicate to our customers and clearly explain the problem, the reason of the problem, and the length of the possible delay. And nobody ever was “dissatisfied” (at least during last 6 years when I work here).

> Are they OK with dissatisfied customers telling them the things they write here?

I would be TOTALLY ok with dissatisfied customers telling me the things I write here, if I behaved with them similarly to how Jolla behaves with me.

The main problem is that Jolla treats us as if we are fools. Treating smart people as fools is the best way to ruin your company. If Jolla is serious about their aim to survive in the market, they should realize and fix this.

If I was an investor considering to invest in Jolla, I would not invest my money until this is fixed.

uhm yes, I can now download the software to a USB stick and stick it up my nose dreaming of Sailfish OS2.0. If you deliver all the fluids in a car, it still doesn’t make it a car, does it ? You have relatives working at Jolly Oy?

Have you ever failed? Looks like you haven’t… Are you God and you do everything perfect? Oh God, please, send us hope for this world, as you do all perfect…

Humans, we ALL are humans. Humans make mistakes, bad things happen, shit happens; and sometimes EVERYTHING can go bad, for example: now there are some cloud storage companies in troubles because they have lost thousand or millions of user files, why? Because a whole batch of hard drives failed, so the drives that those companies use failled all at the same time, including those harddrives that storage copanies use as backup solution.
What happened with Jolla? EVERYTHING went wrong, EVERYTHING. They had problems with screen, with motherboard and so on… that’s why they are facing this situation.
What happen when someone fails? People usually help you recovering. Did your mom take you up when you falled on the floor? Ir did she hit you a punch in the face? Well, then apply that for Jolla, try to understand the situation that sometimes “shit happens” and they are working to take forward everything.
Have a nice
A Jolla not-fanboy, but a person that tries to understand situations, and that also is waiting for a tablet, but knows that Jolla isn’t Samsung and doesn’t have as much resources as a big company.

I failed a lot, but I never took someone elses money and lied about it.

in mid-October, I was asked to finalize my order. To do that, I had to pay tax and shipping cost. I never got the tablet.
Up until that point, it was crowdfunding and, sure, that can go wrong.
But at the point they made me pay tax, it became a purchase. What did they do with that money? Payed tax for a product they didn’t ship? Or did they keep the money I paid for tax and used it for something else?

The only thing that went wrong with Jolla is that in the middle of the tablet campaign, the decided doing Hardware isn’t cool and focus instead on licensing Software. They weren’t committed to make the tablet. It wasn’t their number one priority.
But if you run a crowdfunding campaign, fulfilling that has to be your number one priority, otherwise you are a scammer.

And if they want me to stop saying that, they just have to prove me wrong. Refund my money or ship my tablet.

Seriously, there are two cases where there should be a full and immediate refund:

- Those who pre-ordered the tablet in August-Sept, since that was a store purchase
- Those who have paid for shipping and taxes in October without receiving their tablets should at least get that amount (shipping + tax) back immediately. You are in this category, so you have at least some ground for complaint.

For all the others (including myself): we crowdfunded, so we knowingly took a risk that we would never receive the tablets.

Jolla f*cked up the communication last year, not providing the timely updates that they needed to do. But there is no proof that they willingly scammed people to take their money.

They are even working on refunding (at least 50% of) the crowdfunding amounts. I think that’s extremely decent when you compare it to other failed crowdfuning campaigns.

Please everyone: get over it. If you don’t want to support Jolla anymore: just go buy something else. But at this point, some of the people here are beginning to sound like 14 year old boys posting nudy pics of their ex-girlfriends who broke up with them… Get a life!

Hey folks, please give me one good reason why Jolla should not push out an update when it’s ready? They promised an update this week and voila here it is …
All the phone owners (or most of them) are waiting for regular updates and I think that not the same people who are dealing with the tablet case are involved with software development – so please keep those things separate and post your anger in the tablet posts …
Should they abandon the software development just because they can’t ship the tablets – that would be a double loose situation for all of us (well it be honest for those of us who own a phone and backed for the tablet )
I prefer to get as much out of the situation as possible – that’s nothing to do with being a fanboy (shouldn’t that be gendered?) that’s just rational – so if the software development goes on it’s obviously a good thing – and if the tablet thing fails at all I don’t want to loose the OS for my mobile either …
Don’t switch your brains of just because you you are pi**** about the tablet – call me what everyou want

Tablet and? Without software progress, there isn’t chance to “sell” Sailfish OS to the users. Without users is just no market share. Without market share is no reason to make a product. Without product is no chance to make profit. Without profit you can’t pay employees. No employees, no progress. It’s just f*** circle of our lost money.

Jolla was created from dreams, hard work and lot of investments (donations). They need to make a progress in software to make uprising spiral from circle.

It’s not a matter that they shouldn’t post about regular happenings. It’s the fact they have promised resolution to the tablet fiasco and are being silent on it. It’s just a matter of kicking the can further out in time each time rather than being forthright and honest about what they are going to do and damned well getting on with it.

Money hungry Chinese manufacturers? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Do you know anything about economy? Do you really think they should “wait for Godot?” till Jolla finally show themselves with money for tablets? CMON…

Without software progress, there isn’t chance to “sell” Sailfish OS to the users. Without users is just no market share. Without market share is no reason to make a product. Without product is no chance to make profit. Without profit you can’t pay employees. No employees, no progress. It’s just f*** circle of our lost money.

Jolla was created from dreams, hard work and lot of investments (donations). They need to make a progress in software to make uprising spiral from circle.

If only they didn’t nuke the community they had built with so much effort.
Like hell that I’m going to speak anything good about Jolla next time I have a chance.

Because we all love privacy, Linux, open source and all, but you see where this is heading? People are demanding refunds and stuff with pitchforks in hand. If they are still using a Jolla phone, they’re probably replacing it with Android soon. Jolla’s reputation just sunk, at least in Europe. They have no presence in the American and Japanese markets, so what’s left? China? Maybe only those Countries where this whole story will sound as a distant echo of some abstract happening.
In the meantime loyal European customers eager to toss their money at their next overpriced Lastu case and The Other Half are being driven away. And on top of everything, app developers got discouraged and left. Look at the store, new apps are a rarity. Filter away the infinite clones of crappy Android puzzle games littering the game page and what’s left? Go look for a decent Twitter client that won’t need 2 years to get a bugfix. Or an app that can send files via Bluetooth, or a decent OwnCloud client. Most of the apps are unfinished early versions, the developers either left or are not motivated enough to keep building them. New developers are not attracted.

So you see where it’s going? Bad reputation, few unrefined apps, no hardware, no app developers. Oh but we just got a lousy update, better hurry and install it now so I can… what? run Spotify for Android and send SMS from Android apps? I guess I’m just going to get a Samsung phone instead.

I’m just wondering about all these new updates seemingly focused on even more Android compatibility, even less privacy. Are Jolla now just trying to make the OS more appealing to prospective buyers? As others have said, if we wanted all that Android compatibility, we would buy an Android phone. Each new update seems to geared towards making Sailfish just another branch of Google. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we were all hearing about Google’s “new Sailfish OS”, in the future.

Yahoooo! More unneeded features and still no hardware to see them in action!

“Lockscreen media controls are now available for Android media apps (e.g. Spotify)”
There’s a native app already. Wouldn’t it be better to contribute to it instead? If you really, really must invest in software development right now? Because you know, if I want to run Android apps, I can buy an Android phone.

“Cloud support: share pictures directly to your Dropbox or OneNote account”
So no OwnCloud? Wouldn’t that be the most obvious choice? If you actually looked at the apps in your store, you’d see there’s an half-baked OwnCloud client in there already. Can’t you integrate that into the system, or help develop it? Because, y’know, all the privacy talk, and then you give us Dropbox support before OwnCloud?

“Passwords: all password fields in the OS now have the opportunity to show the password”
All of them??

“Settings: you can now install untrusted software without Jolla account”
If only you stopped scaring developers away and destroying your community, there would be a little bit more software to install and actually make use of this new feature.

“Support for SMS sending through Android apps added”
I thought there was a native, official app for sending SMS already. I’d much prefer more work on XMPP rather than this stuff.

So are you going to make a new post soon? Because surely you didn’t forget to update us about the tablet issue. You know, the thing we gave you money for, including tax, shipping costs and the third party Lastu case. And that they are selling in China when we already paid for them. You know, that.

Not sure why you call the native ownCloud client half-baked. I am using it happily and for a long time already it has a feature to automatically sync any picture taken to my ownCloud server. It is awesome and works flawlessly.
I can understand that users of other cloud systems want such a thing as well (I just can’t understand why anyone uses dropbox and the like)

Wtf is wron with all you guys whining like little children? Yes I have also ordered and paid a tablet. And I also have none. But i’m not idiotic enough to bite the hand that feeds me. I still have a jolla phone which i preferover any other available mobile out there. Just because of the OS. And Jolla has announced that there will be a solution. But no you just continue whining not able to wait what this solution will be. Why the hell have backed the campaign? Haven’t you read that there is no guarantee for delivery? Well that’s your own fault. So pleaaaaase stop whining!

I’ll quote my own message to Naecken, above. Jolla’s going down the drain. The way they managed this whole thing, getting everybody’s hopes up, backing off, ignoring questions and requests from the community, making stiff, uninformative statements. For me it’s not much about the money, but for all of the above.

Then there are people who bought more than one tablet, so it’s also a matter of money for them.
And there’s people who just preordered the finished product.

I doubt you’ll see any of those buying Jolla stuff again. Enojoy the OS updates while they last. If you can still call this stuff “an update”.

I echo duckz reply, I’d be okay if the project simply failed, but the complete disrespect Jolla has shown the IGG backers is unforgiveable. The head in the sand approach to communication is doing nothing but whittling away the fan base. I originally backed the tablet (Not OS), because of Jolla’s claims of being open. This openness went out the window the second the IGG campaign closed.

@Fellfrosch ”But i’m not idiotic enough to bite the hand that feeds me”

I’m idiotic enough:

2 x Tablets
2 x Lastu casea
2 x Additional 64 GB
2 X Shipping money

And on end of the day, nothing feeds me.

Belive me, I’m not whining about money. I’m whining,
because Jolla management killed basic (community).
Because, they killed Marc Dillon and his 6 years hard work on the Jolla platform.
And they killed OUR TRUST in everything what is and will be connected with a name ”Jolla”.

And me personally … I’ll NEVER EVER participate any crowdfunding in the future.

> And me personally … I’ll NEVER EVER participate any crowdfunding in the future.

Amen. Not again, ever. At the time I was pondering whether I should have waited for the Nokia N1 or trusting in Jolla, and that was not the right choice. I did a similar mistake years back, but did eventually receive my gadget, although the cables I paid for never arrived. But the gadget was obsolete by then and has never been used. Waste of (too much) money. Then came Jolla. Total loss. Never again. Everything I buy in the future will literally be there on the shelf already, to be purchased right away.
Ah well, the best way to learn is from our own painful mistakes. It’s just that it’s harder to learn from mistakes in trust. But give it a couple of repeats..

Wtf is wrong with you ? don’t you see the criminal energy in the whole story. It didn’t just fail because the world wasn’t ready for the product. It failed because of elementary failures in managing the company. With the knowledge of failing the train continued forward to the end of the track. Sometimes you have to stop a train to keep it from falling. this train went on and against better knowledge, Jollay OY still promised that the bridge was finished and no problem to run the train to the other end of the valley. I don’t deal with liars and I give a fuck on updates coming from liars. I don’t want updates, I want the truth, an appology and a settlement, thereafter maybe we talk again community stuff. But as long as they cannot look straight into my face and tell me the truth they can keep for themselves whatever they produce.

Thanks a lot Juhani and Sailors!
am VERY happy and grateful to see you moving! Looks like a promising start into 2016!
A friend ordered a phone today and I will order a second. Keep pushing.
To all the mourners: ever worked your a* off in a tiny startup? Go! Try! And you’ll feel how hard your comments hit into the face.
I ordered, wrote the money off and got a nice surprise one day. Life can be so easy.

This is completely useless, meaningless
Without a tablet, i cannot use any of Jolla stuff
I am using a Blackberry Playbook and Ipad 2
And I was looking forward for a tablet half year to 9 months after my contribution
And yet, after one and a half year, the devices cannot satisfy my basic needs already, there is still nothing but excuses for it is coming next month
It creates negative impact towards my study
You guys are just cheaters
I sincerely suggest and hope you guys can go to he**, but I don’t know if **ll will accept sh*t like you guys

Seriously? Everyone was hoping you would clear up the tablet issue. Like you said in the IRC meeting. Or should I say @Cybette said for you.

It’s obvious that Jolla doesn’t care about the people that funded their very obvious misuse of money. I’m damn near ready to smash my Jolla Phone with a hammer Just to get some satisfaction from this bullshit. It’s obvious that no one will be compensated for the money they lost.

Seriously, as disappointed as one can be about the whole situation… How does repeatedly commenting on a blog in a childish way like “Man.. WTF.. dude they stole my money, I want my tablet”, “They’re going down” etc… help at all ?

I am a contributor to the Tablet campaign, but all this noise and FUD is annoying.
For people who are actually interested in reading insightful on-topic comments this is painful.

Please Jolla, follow up on the topic more often as it seems that a blog post every second week is not enough for attention-deprived followers or better prioritization is needed as pointed by obstacleman.

JuhaniLassila, amongst this perpetual flow of whining there is something pertinent about adjusting the communication pattern if you have the time/opportunity.
If you cannot, better explain why than opening to raging FUD: e.g your supplier having sold part of the stock being the reason of now being able to deliver to everyone or impossibility to communicate on current negociation. Just my 0.02c.

To those who have enough time on their hands for endless speculations and complaints, thank you for your kind understanding: maybe regroup on some forum to share your frustrations, ideas or dreams of instant satisfaction with one another.
If putting Jolla down is the smartest way to improve the situation, that is plain unexpected genius.

If Jolla actually bothered to tell us what was happening there’d be no need for all the “speculation” which appears to irk you so.
Similarly people might be calmer if there was less “noise” from complacent, self-satisfied fanbois telling us how “wonderful” Jolla & its (largely vapourware) products are…..

People raising a justifiable complaint are very welcome to do so ! And I totally agree that if Jolla gave more information then speculation would not exist to this extent.

But we are here, on this blog, reading pages filled with off-topic comments, some of them consisting of speculations, conspiracy theories etc… and personal attacks, some close to the insult: this brings the signal-to-noise ratio very low.

Some people here say, in the same comment, that they are in the dark regarding the situation and yet claim that Jolla purposedly conned all the backers.
One can be disappointed and pissed-off, but seriously stay reasonnable: if you do not know anything, contact the company, file a complaint, but no need to babble endlessly.

If you really want to complain then do something active about it but please stop choosing the solution of hastly written posts on a blog…

I am not a fanboy and I am very disappointed (also about some technicalities on the phone) but more than claimed incompetence, I hate vague speculation and aggressivity.
It lets people release some steam OK but who honestly thinks that harassing Jolla with blog posts helps the cause in any way ?

The reason that there’s a lot of “off topic” discussion is because there appears to be no other way to even attempt to contact Jolla about the Tablet.
Emails to their Customer “Service” produce little or nothing other than an acknowledgement, if you’re lucky.

In a sense I’m happy to annoy you and the other “happy sailors” becuase maybe you’ll get sufficiently annoyed to kick Jolla too. As some of Jolla’s favoured few remaining customers, maybe they’ll listen to you….

Thanks for the news. I was wondering why there wasn’t an sd card support for Android apps in the first place. Good to hear that the solution is on its way since two of my most space consuming apps are Android apps. Any idea when the actual update is coming? I usually try to avoid early access releases as much as crowdfunding projects.

- that they cannot see
- that was made on THEIR money that they paid to get the tablet
- at the EXACT moment when they are on their edge waiting for the promised update about the tablet situation, checking this blog every 10 minutes to finally know when they will receive their refund.

I thought that @nblr kinda went overboard claiming that Juhani Lassila is paid by another company to sabotage the Jolla, but now he looks right. There is no way anyone who has anything to do with PR can so professionally mock and piss off (and on) people, unless it is intentional.

To be honest: as much as I try to think positive and keeping the faith up that all will be just great in the end – the communication throughout the last few weeks feels exactly as you describe it.

As much as I am looking forward to updating my two Jolla phones, and I appreciate the update: I was clearly looking for some other news today at the blog so that even these good news feel soooo disappointing!

If I try to imagine how this announcement must feel for someone who doesn’t have the phone and waited for the tablet so long to get a handle on the SFOS experience —> I would be raging now after this post without any note on the table situation!

Shit happens when you dispatch 10000 units on container vessel, and suddenly this container fell overboard. This is actually stealing the money, made by Jolla to finance their own project (embezzling).

First, I apologise for the insult. I am very upset with all the fud and lies coming from jolla, and tend to react a bit too strongly.

Second, if you don’t want to call it stealing, call it embezlement. They used more than 50% of the money from the crowdfund to develop sailfish 2.0, when the crowdfund was clearly only for the atblet hardware.

@jbernardo: Both of your claims are wrong. The campaign was not for the tablet hardware only, quite on the contrary, it stated clearly on the IGG page that it would include SF 2.0 as well. (At least that’s why I took part. The tablet is just a tablet, I don’t need some IGG campaign to get a tablet.)

We don’t know how Jolla spent the money they received from crowdfunding. They only told us that the whole project costs were roughly 50% software, 50% hardware. As the money gathered from the crowdfunding campaign was by far not enough to cover these costs, we have no clue what it was mainly spent on. (We only now that it *must* have been spent on both, SW and hardware, as it was more than 50% of the total cost.)

You can repeat it as many times as you like, but it is not true. The IGG was for the tablet. Period. The OS development was never mentioned.
And the money was obviously more than enough – if over 50% of it was used to develop the OS.

@jbernardo The tablet consists of HW and software, and that’s what the IGG campaign was about. Sailfish 2 was clearly mentioned on the IGG page. If the campaign wouldn’t have been about OS development, the software-related strech goals wouldn’t have made any sense. Also, what use would the hardware be without an OS to boot on it? This is a highly bizzare picture you’re trying to paint here.

That 50% of the crowdfunding money was used for SW development is something that you keep repeating, but there’s no evidence for this claim. In the end, it doesn’t matter much as SW development was needed for the tablet to work at all, but I keep wondering why you guys make such things up.

I also agree that SF2.0 was clearly stated.. but SF was clearly running on the tablet from early days. Yes maybe there were bugs and development should have been ongoing. But there was no need to keep changing the goalposts on what hardware was to be supported. They could have shipped hardware months ago and continued to iterate on the software. Then people could be developing apps for it as well.

ossi1967
on January 28, 2016 at 11:26 am

@obstacleman: They never changed any goalposts on what hardware was to be supported. There was the initial announcement that the software changes necessary for the tablet would by and large be compatible with the phone and would be part of the regular updates in 2015. And that’s what happened. Tablet first, phones later. Just as announced.

“…but SF was clearly running on the tablet from early days.” No, it didn’t. Not in a shape you could put into the hands of consumers. For example, the assumption that the OS runs on a hardware with a SIM-card, thus supporting phone calls, text messaging and mobile data was hardwired into the code in the weirdest places. There is a reason why during the early months, including MWC, only Jolla employees operated the tablet and showed off only certain well-selected parts of the UI. Phone users noticed how the development for the oS suddenly stalled in 2015. There were updates, but they hardly brought new features, neither did they fix annoying bugs. Those were updates needed to clean the code base and achieve a sane separation of tablet- and phone-related packages. Only after that the OS was ready to be shipped with anything else but a phone.

He is one of three or four here that keep repeating the same lie, as if it became truth with enough repetitions. The IGG campaign was for a tablet running sailfish OS, not for the tablet and for seilfish 2.0 development. I think it might be a problem of understanding English.

The campaign was for a specific tablet which didn’t exist at the time although there existed many tablets, with a specific operating system which didn’t exist at the time although there existed many operating systems.

Keep nagging about it, but most people will understand that if you are developing a new product with an associated feature, and that feature does not exist, you have to allocate resources to the development of both the feature and the completed product.

Most people. Not you, but most people. As far as I can tell not even your number one fan prometheus is supporting this interpretation.

You really are not only deluded, but also stubborn. Almost nobody will see an request for financing a tablet as a request for financing both the tablet and the OS. In particular if the os is already under development and looks like it only will need some adjustments. But keep repeating the party line, like your pal ossi.

Thanks for the update! I really appreciate seeing, the work at Jolla is going on.
I personally have my Jolla phone and enjoy seeing it is still evolving.
I have ordered a tablet as well and have not received this by now.
To be honest I don’t really mind.
I bought both, phone and tablet in the first place to support Jolla as a independent alternative to the big prayers. And I’ve been aware when ordering, that buying from a small company or start up like Jolla always bears the risk, that things can go wrong.
So should all of you.
As we know by now, things went wrong and Jolla has really had a though time.

So, dear Jolla team, as far as I’m concerned, don’t bother too much about refunding or shipping my tablet. To me it’s much more important, that you as company survive and the OS is developing and getting stronger.
And – to my mind – you will know far better how this can be done than any of us.
Just keep going and continue the work on sailfish OS!

As someone who is also still waiting for a tablet I kinda get people’s frustration. However, I knew that this was a possibility from the start. It’s part of funding things on IGG. Jolla was doing really well and then faced some really unfortunate set backs. Have some sympathy and be aware of the risk you took when funding their IGG.

Jolla guys, I still firmly believe in you and what you stand for. I’ll fire up the deep fryer so you can give some of the people in here some fries with their salt.

Dave, we waited too long. They obviously cannot run business. They’ve embezzled our money for their own project while in parallel giving false information on their official blog post. I simply don’t care for Jolla anymore. I want my money back, and as soon as I get it, I will move on and never look back at them. They can continue whatever they are doing….

I simply don’t care about whether you care about Jolla anymore. What I do care about, is you spreading lies in the blog comments. People like you are the reason many sites don’t publish comments until they have been reviewed. You are acting like a complete idiot (in the original sense of the word).

No, and I probably never will be a Jolla employee. The closest relationship I have with the Jolla employees (apart from being a customer/end-user) is that I had Trolltech shares. Trolltech was acquired by Nokia, which gave me my first stock earnings, and Trolltech technology (Qt) is at the heart of Sailfish OS.

Jolla application developers, petition to you. What do you think, whether Jolla treated it’s tablet payers morally right? If you want to help solve the case in favor of your tablet brethren, please indicate your position to Jolla.

Hi Moshroom, I think ALL users are happy with the SF updates. Problem is, I expected to become a happy user half a year ago myself, but did not receive the tablet so I am at a loss here (pun intended, regretfully).
But I will not ‘whine’ and not go ‘trolling’ here, because you users deserve this update anyway.

I have a question for you, though: where did you find the fact that there are more users than Tablet backers?

Thanks a lot for all your work. I have my Jolla phone since December 2013 as my main phone and this is the phone I have kept the longest so far (since 1995). I like how the OS evolves and hope it will keep going better and better.

Thanks for the god work Jolla. I really like SF.
Just tiny challenge: I have been ‘running’ SF for a year now from paper. I thought the backers project was for a tablet. It seems I was wrong, it was for SF 2.0.
Please advice.

Seriously: Do anyone have an idea, how the community and the contributers could take legal actions against this company? How could contributers of different countries work together to force them to do waht they are promised?

Happy to see Sailfish OS improving at a steady pace and many thanks to the developers for making it happen even on such difficult times as these.

I’m very satisfied with my Jolla phone and I don’t see any valid reason to switch to android in the foreseeable future. I’m looking forward to Sailfish OS landing on the PuzzlePhone though

As for the tablet, I do understand the deception many are showing here, however I don’t understand going beyond the deception by making threats.

When I supported Jolla tablet back on February 2015 I was fully aware of the possibility to loose that money. I’m not happy but this is not a sufficient reason to attempt to sink a company that hasn’t been afraid to take over a huge challenge and that successfully delivered a valid alternative to Android and iOs devices.

The the whiners here I suggest that you start reading the ToS before making any transaction in future, whatever the crowdfunding platform you choose.

And to Jolla I suggest that you start communicating tablet updates by e-mail, as these comments don’t do you any good.

Oh COME on Juhani, this Post is almost exactly the same as above (posted as “Saja”). When you are writing under several nicknames at least try to make the writing style look different. You are failing the Duck test.

Actually wait. Arrogance… phenomenal egoism and ignorance… f*cking emoticons… I think that you are not Juhani. You are Ossi.

If it were just the crowdfunding money – but Jolla told me my tablet was ready to ship and made me pay tax and shipping. I never got the tablet – but at least I payed tax for it!
Where did that money go? Did they pay tax to the government for a device they didn’t ship? Don’t think so!

You’re right to complain about the shipping fee + VAT money being destined to something else.
This is the real fraud in the whole tablet saga and I hope Jolla will at least refund that amount to those who paid for delivery.

I am not sure what the rules are in Finland, and I am not sure exactly what the status was of Jolla. However, here in Norway there is very little you can do while trying to survive a possible bankruptcy. So, it is actually possible that they were not allowed to send your tablet. They should be allowed to send it now that the financial situation is clear though, but now their staff is much reduced so everything will take longer.

Have some patience?
I have a phone, and I wait for a tablet. Until I know for sure the outcome there is not much to gain from spreading unverified accusations. In fact, if it contributes to anything at all it most likely contributes to an increased likelyhood of the company failing. Perhaps you are Stephen Elop in “disguise” and really want that to happen. If you don’t, it could be better to have some patience and wait for more facts.

I agree with you. How people and money so easily separated! They not even read TOS, no understanding what they use it for. In real world 5 seconds before money of these people is gone and they know not where, how or when, but DESERVE money back. When seas get rough they panic not having certainty of some idiot computer game.

You’d think when they see the number of unhappy replies to a blog post that they may want to address the issues actually concerning the majority – but oh no!! We have the path that We(jolla) want to follow – thanks for helping us down that path even if you did not know that’s what you were doing and too bad it may have cost you money and a lot of time!

Thank you for the upgrade and for improving Sailfish OS. After all the negative news in November/December it’s a relief to see such an upgrade – I’m extremely happy Jolla is still here! Sailfish OS is a very needed alternative in this more and more restricted, monotone world of big corporate spyware-software smartphones. Big thanks also goes to the community which never gave up and provides day by day new patches, improvements and apps!

I’m also sad about the whole tablet situation, but compared to those “Jolla you stole my money”-trolls, I fortunately have other things in my life other than worrying about a piece of hardware. But to calm such people down, it is important that Jolla sorts out the Tablet issues and informs people in a straightforward way about the next steps as soon as possible. Even if it’s something like: “Hey, you should have read and known the risks of Indiegogo-campain, money is unfortunately lost”.

caprico, the critical problem is that Jolla said they want to deliver only a few tablets to a few lucky backers. This means their campaign is converted to a lottery.

This is critical because:
1) Indiegogo terms explicitly forbid to use their platform for lotteries.
2) Finish law is very strict if you want to issue a lottery. It is extremely likely that Jolla will not meet these requirements.

So, if Jolla proceeds with their lottery idea and not treat every backer fairly, they put their whole business at risk which also can be harmful for private investors, employees, and Jolla phone owners who want to keep receiving updates.

If Jolla management is smart, they skip the plan to treat backers unfairly (lottery). Instead, they should either:
* deliver all perks with a huge delay – backers will be a bit happy again
* deliver nothing to anybody – this will completely nuke their community of stakeholders (I guess)
* fully or partially refund every backer fairly (e.g. everybody gets 90% refunded of what they backed) – backers will be a bit happy again.

The advantage of the refund option, is that it can resolve the ongoing bad PR very fast.

‘“Hey, you should have read and known the risks of Indiegogo-campain, money is unfortunately lost”.’

Losing money in crowdfunding is the one thing. But Jolla told me my tablet is ready to ship and made me pay shipping and tax. I paid shipping and tax for a device I never got. What did they do with the money I gave them for tax? Did the pay tax to the government for a device they didn’t ship? Or did they keep it?

With “Trolls” I meant in no way people like you, because several complains are absolutely justified and I was talking about those who:

a) try to disturb tablet-unrelated Jolla/SFOS coversations on several social platforms
b) behave like they bought a tablet on some online store not accepting the risks of crowdfunding in form of Indiegogo’s “flexible funding”
c) pretend to only have bought a tablet (hardware) without any software (why even fund a Jolla tablet then?) and thus falsy complain that Jolla put part of those funds into software development (or they don’t understand what was needed in order to get SFOS ready different hardware & ported)

Unfortunately you’re not the only one who already paid taxes and doesn’t get any answers. This is in no way acceptable and should be a high priority for those who are responsable. Even if Jolla currently doesn’t have the assets to return that money, it needs to be properly communicated.
I can understand why I don’t have my tablet, the difficulties in manufactoring such a product and also financial situation/risks Jolla is fighting against. What I can’t understand is the way Jolla keeps us uninformed but rather “provokes” with unnecessary teasing. I’ve been critical about this already on several occasions and as a fan of their product (SFOS) it’s a sad and upsetting situation.

1) The description of IndieGoGo campaign clearly said that it is aimed towards producing the tablet. PrOdUcInG tHe TaBlEt. Quote from official Jolla website: “Every single cent from this campaign will go into producing the tablet, with nothing to spare”. (They deleted the quote, but thank God for Wayback Machine).

2) At least three people on this very page (@air_rider_56, @prometheus, and me – probably more) pledged the campaign EXACTLY for the hardware. Personally, I’m not all that interested in SFOS as long as it remains a yet another proprietary closed-source OS. My primary reason to pledge was to get an x86 tablet with an unlocked bootloader (and also the price *was* nice for the specs).

Oh right, there was also @calmeadows and @rkaraffa who also said they need only the hardware, not Sailfish. (But you will probably say that all these people are actually me writing from different accounts… whatever).

I never had any plans on buying a Jolla tablet even if I do own a Jolla phone. I could never see a use case for a tablet compared to a computer. I have had my Jolla phone for more than two years but this kind of behavior from Jolla side is the reason why I would never consider buying another
Jolla or Sailfish phone/product for that matter.

Jolla is a dead company and Sailfish is a dead OS in my eyes. When I need a new phone I will look elsewhere.

I must say it is interesting to read the comments, and to see the increase of fanbois blaming the victims.
I know you are happy with the software that was paid with our money, but try to show some decency and understand that we are extremely unhappy not only with the fact that the money we gave to develop hardware was used instead to develop the software for you, but mostly we are furious with the lies and misdirections.
And insulting us twice, first by rejoicing you’re getting the software we paid and can’t use, and then calling us trolls and telling us to shut up so we won’t disturb the celebrations, won’t make us go away. Quite the contrary.

I don’t think they are different people because they say exactly the same bullshit and use exactly the same style. I am pretty sure that if we had access to the Poster’s IPs we would see that 90% of these comments are written by one and the same person.

And also they all act like they are blind when people tell them that they are wrong, and continue to repeat the same things over and over, like a stuck Grammophon record. E.g. a lot of People (including me) have already told them dozens of times that we did not participate in any crowdfunding. And nevertheless people here *still* use this moronic excuse “crowdsource is a risk so stop whining, you should have read the ToS”.

There is no way these people can act like this sincerely because there are no such idiots. Ergo, I am pretty sure they are perfectly aware of the situation and (a) troll us; (b) they are paid by Jolla and try to improve its image.

Hi. First be aware that acting like a conspiracy theorist doesn’t make your case any stronger.

Now please be not offended when I kindly ask you what you are if not people who participated in the crowdfunding? As a random guy who bought Jolla phone 3 months ago and who has been reading these blogs since then, I really thought that you angry people are the IGG backers who didn’t receive the tablet. In my mind that equals to people who participated in a crowdfunding. Have I got something wrong? If so, sorry, but could you kindly explain one more time what you really are (or provide a link to or a date of a previous explanation) so I can stop being ignorant about this subject?

Hello Moshroom, I was referring to the fact that a lot of people inc. me bought the Tablet in the official Jolla webshop in August 2015. I am not even registered at IndieGoGo. I first referred to it in that “Open letter” that was posted in November. But this problem has nothing to do with me personally because I am just one of a whole lot of people who bought the tablet and did not “pledge” or “back” anything.

And yes I think you belong to the 1% of adequate People here. But a lot of other people have clearly read the replies to their “IGG is not a shop” posts (both from me and other Webshop customers) and completely ignored it, and continued to repeat that “you should have read the IGG ToS” again and again. I would say that the most obnoxious of them is Ossi 1967. But there are a lot of them. I’m not going to spend my Time on collecting a list of nicknames, anyone inclined can read through several last Blog Posts.

Some of them even told me that we (webshop buyers) should “calm down” too, because it was “just a pre-order, not a regular order”. This is where I’m really starting to lose my Shit because during an *actual* pre-order the price is paid at the time of shipping, and my Kreditkart was withdrawed instantly.

Anyway I repeated this thing a couple of times but unfortunately I do not have such great patience as @Turbinenreiter, so when it became obvious that these people don’t give a shit about what you answer them I just gave up. I guess I must apologize for being too harsh. It’s just that this behaviour (Ossi’s etc.) is the exact definition of trolling for me.

I don’t see anyone blaming the victims, but I am not interested in reading page after page of variations of “give me my money” and “you suck” and “you are criminals”.
I installed the update today. Works fine on the phone. I am also hoping to get a Jolla Tablet one day, but unlike many of you I know that the crowdfunding was going to finance the development of a tablet WITH an updated operating system (Sailfish OS 2) as well as the production of these tablets. Money were used for all these targets, and they actually completed two of them, Unfortunately they ran into trouble fulfilling the third target – which is the most important target to most of us backers.
However, the story is not over yet. I have not seen any statement confirming that tablets will not be shipped. I have not seen any statements that there will be any form of lottery.
So basically a lot of people here are spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. One could be led to believe they are all Microsoft employees, as spreading FUD is one of the two things Microsoft excel at.

“they actually completed two of them”
No, they don’t! Only a few tablets were made! (And those are a copy of a Chinese device and most likely was made to test the production line.)

“I have not seen any statement confirming that tablets will not be shipped.”

From official blog post:
“The bad news here is that we are not able to complete the production to fulfill all contributions. In other words, all of our backers will not get a Jolla Tablet.”
(Maybe because my bad English, but I think that means they can not produce enough tablets to every backers and pre-orders.)

They completed two of them:
1) Develop of Sailfish OS into version 2.0 with support for tablet devices
2) Design/development of Jolla Tablet running Sailfish OS 2.0

You must be really close on this as you have all this knowledge (the tablets being copies of a Chinese device as opposed to produced according to Jolla specifications, the tablets only produced to test the production line). I have no such inside information.

Stating that not all backers will get the tablet is not the same as saying that tablets will not be shipped. I meant exactly what I wrote – I have not seen any statement saying that (no) tablets will be shipped. I am still hoping to get mine. Maybe I won’t, but until I know I won’t there is very little I can do except wait, and ask (in a fairly polite way) for updates regarding that project.

Tesla are two years late with deliveries of Model X compared to what was said when it was introduced. I think Elon Musk should be happy Tesla doesn’t have the Jolla Tablet crowdfunding backers as their customer base.

There are photos from the internal PCB of jolla tablet and the Aigo x86 tablet. Those are nearly same. And it is really unlikely that two independent developer design the same PCB layout, same housing, etc…

I said that it is “most likely” for testing. If you try to produce something in big quantities, you start with a small run to test the production line.

“Stating that not all backers will get the tablet is not the same as saying that tablets will not be shipped.”
I haven’t said that nobody will get their tablet, but I think there are huge problems if a company says no everybody will get their tablets after they said the opposite.

I think there is some difference between the R&D of a new electric car and (re)designing an existing tablet.

So you have evidence that the Jolla Tablet and the Aigo tablet are very similar.
What (evidence) lead you to conclude that Jolla copied Aigo and not the other way around, or that they are both based on a common design base from someone else?

Yes there is a difference between the R&D of a new electric car and a tablet. However, electric cars have existed for more than 100 years, and although they were nearly non-existent in the market for many years there have been electric “mass-produced” cars available for at least 10 years.
Many Tesla X want-to-be customer have paid thousands in a fee to secure their slot in the queue. I stand by my statement that Elon Musk should be happy about the customer base.

Strange how you accuse others of lying, and you’re the one making up stuff. So, you “knew” the crowdfunding was for the tablet “with an enhanced OS”, despite that having not been written anywhere; the crowdfunding was always for a tablet running sailfish os 2.0, not for a tablet and for sailfish 2.0 development.
And then you claim that two of the campaign objectives were attained, when in fact the single objective was not attained and jolla kept lying about it?
You either have a lot of nerve coming here lying your mouth off and insulting people that are already upset with all these lies and FUD from jolla, or you really believe what you wrote, and in that case I pity you.

Yes I knew the campaign was for a tablet with an enhanced OS. I already had the phone, and I don’t think it was concealed that Sailfish OS was not at version 2.0 at the time of the campaign. There was even a stretch goal (that was not met) for split-screen support in the operating system.
Adding support in the operating system for new hardware is also development.

As for attaining two objectives I can repeat that they:
1) Developed Sailfish OS into version 2.0 with support for tablet devices
2) Completed the design/development of Jolla Tablet running Sailfish OS 2.0

My mother is not here, and she never has been and never will be a Microsoft employee. She still uses Windows (Vista) though, I haven’t quite convinced her to switch to openSUSE yet.

You were the only one outside of Jolla’s HQ to know that, then. It is clear on the IGG page that the crowdfunding is for a “tablet running sailfish os 2.0″. Nowhere is it written that the money was also to develop sailfish 2.0.
And as the stretch goals were to add functionality for the OS, anyone would assume the OS was already developed or developed independently.

If the development had been only adding support for the tablet hardware, it would have been perfectly acceptable.

So, since the OS never was one of the objectives, and the tablet was never delivered, despite Jolla’s continuing to be in business, I’d say than no objective of the crowdfunding was met.

So, how much money was used in the project for justifiable, tablet-related, software development? I can’t find this information anywhere but surely it is somewhere, at least many people seem to know about that.

This is what I feared, lots of guesswork is needed to come to any conclusion.

Adaptation was not mentioned in Jolla’s figures, so it must be included in one of the three categories. “Material purchases” is clearly unsuitable, leaving “hardware program” and “software development”. Hardware program does not seem to be a well-established term, so we can only guess whether it included just the hardware or also adapting the software for the hardware. If it was the former, adaptation was a part of software development. Another guess would then be needed to get an idea of how much of the project money Jolla used for generic OS development.

Sure, they said that big part of the project was for Sailfish OS development but again, this is all they told and one can only guess how much of the “OS development” was tablet-related.

There does exist at least one comment that comes very close to stating that they spent a lot of project money on things that may not be directly related to the tablet. I mean this one: “…why did we spend a big part of the tablet crowdfunding money on software development and not the tablet itself…” This is alarming but, as usual, too inaccurate to really prove much.

Of course, Jolla would not really have saved any money by using x + 2 million $ for an OS development project and y $ for the tablet project instead of using x $ for the OS development project and y + 2 million $ for the tablet project.

Did you even see the reports from MWC 2015?.. In case you didn’t, they showed a tablet with Sailfish there. And this Sailfish was already in such good Shape that the tablet won the MWC award. And that was in M-A-R-C-H.

Yes I did. And of course once the demonstration runs the software is feature complete and bug free. All us developers know that that is an undisputable fact. Once the specific demonstration run is successful we stop all development.

Apart from 2 and a half years where I worked with strategy and competitor analysis I have worked as a software developer since I started working for Telenor in 1994.
So yes, my comment was meant as an ironic response.

ScumCoder
on January 25, 2016 at 5:02 pm

> Yes I knew the campaign was for a tablet with an enhanced OS

Could people please stop repeating this b/s? Please? Pretty pleeeease?..

The IGG campaign was aimed towards PRODUCING THE TABLET. Period. NOWHERE on the IGG page there was a single mention that the money I paid will be spent on software development.

Jolla even had this goddamn line on their official site: “Every single cent from this campaign will go into producing the tablet, with nothing to spare”. Producing. The. Tablet. There is very little ambiguity in this statement. (I find it hilarious that Jolla removed this line at some point).

Everyone saying that “he knew that the IGG campaign is aimed towards developing SailfishOS” is a heinous hypocrite.

The only thing I see here is the result of ongoing badly failed communication by Jolla as a company. Jolla is digging its own grave.

They can easily fix this with the following blog post (@Jolla: as an author I give you permission to copy-paste):

“Sorry, we admit we failed badly as a company with the tablet. As many of you already might have noticed, we refunded every backer for % seven days ago. Please contact us if you did not yet receive that refund.”

If Jolla wants to survive as a company, they should put an end to this saga immediately. The longer this takes, the more angry the community gets and the more likely business students will get a case with a catchy name like “Jolla’s communication failure – How neglecting stakeholders can lead to bankruptcy”.

> I have not seen any statement confirming that tablets will not be shipped. I have not seen any statements that there will be any form of lottery.

Read the last blog entr then: https://blog.jolla.com/new-years-greetings-jolla/
EXCERPT: “We don’t have all pieces of the puzzle figured out just yet, but a few things are now certain: we are happy to say that we will be shipping an additional small batch of the Jolla Tablet to early backers during early 2016, targeting to send invitations during January. The bad news here is that we are not able to complete the production to fulfill all contributions. In other words, all of our backers will not get a Jolla Tablet. However, you can be sure you will not end up empty handed. We might even have some positive surprises in stock for you. But more on that will follow, feel free to speculate!”

Not all backers will receive a tablet, but that doesn’t mean it is a lottery. There is nothing indicating it will be a lottery. If you are number 3579 in a queue waiting for fish and they run out of fish after serving number 2000 you have not been taking part in a lottery. I have been to restaurants where they ran out of the dish of the day. Still not a lottery.

A lottery includes a draw where everyone stands an equal chance at winning and it is known that only a few will win.

When 20 000 people try to get tickets to a concert in a 10 000 capacity concert hall and those that are first in line are served it is not a lottery.

Likewise, if only some of the backers get a tablet, and those are the ones who completed their orders first, it is not a lottery.

A completely different matter is what happens with those who don’t get a tablet. If there is no compensation Jolla violates the terms of Indiegogo, so I don’t believe that will be the result as the legal risk is too high.

Being free to speculate also means being free to not speculate, and just wait and see what happens.

Correcting myself: it would still be a lottery if everyone but one was a winner, as long as it involved a draw. So it is not about the numbers, but about the process (random selection versus processing in the order of receiving fulfilled orders).

Your analogy doesn’t stick. In the case of the concert, only those that got the tickets would pay them. Here, we all paid for the tablet development, but for now only a handful got the tablet, and it seems not many more will get it. It is a lottery, although one not promoted as such, and where the randomness of the draw is replaced by order of arrival and other limitations (no Russia, no 32GB) imposed by Jolla.

As for the compensations, at this moment I think the only acceptable one is a full refund. And that isn’t very likely.

You should consider applying for a job at a company that sells dictionaries, because you apparently find a lot of flaws in existing dictionaries.

And you admit in your post that you don’t really have any information about Jolla will handle this situation, but you keep on writing as if you know that there will be no refund or attractive alternative option. Impressive.

Lol. Lack of arguments, so now it’s the personal attacks stage?
I have more than enough information on how jolla won’t handle this. The won’t send the tablets, as the already admitted. And Thu won’t refund, as they have also admitted, claiming that the refunds already done were a mistake.
They made some vague promises of a surprise, and we know by now the value of their promises – they can’t even keep the promise to do a blog post on time.
So, you can attack me and the other victims as much as you want. Jolla has already moved us from supporters to unbelievers (I guess we are now “haters” in newspeak). You seem to be trying to push us even more, with your attacks.

You are an amazing person, Kjetil. The level of your ego and Narcissism is staggering.

You admit that you didn’t even read the discussions under previous Blog posts, because you are above us filthy peasants. And yet you have enough impudence to fucking lecture us all here, casually hinting how successful you are (like mentioning that you have Trolltech shares).

Yep, the stuff he’s writing shows that he is absolutely clueless about what’s going on. But that’s not a problem, you still can come here in the middle of the party and talk to us like a Dutch uncle, right Kjetil?..

Amazing! Staggering. I seem to have impressed you. Thank you for your kind words.

Unfortunately the comments solution here at Jolla’s web site makes it hard to tell which comment you responded to when there is a high volume of comments. I can’t recall writing that I didn’t read the discussion under previous blog posts, but I am sure you are correct. Or perhaps you just misinterpreted me not being interested in reading page after page [...] as me not having read comments in previous blog posts.
Normally I read them, but I must admit I don’t check for updates in every blog post every week.

Oohhh, you really aren’t with the times, are you. Trolltech was acquired by Nokia and delisted many years ago.

Of course, now that you are blind by prejudice you will read everything I write in the most negative way possible, so I am sure you will find something in this comment as well that supports your view of me.

In case you didn’t notice people haven’t been asking for a software update lately, but a tablet or a refund on your scam to use our money on software development rather than focusing on getting the hardware to people.

Even if I get the Tablet, I am going to feel guilty. I would rather have my money back than the friggin Tablet. I should have known when they failed to send me my the other half I had ordered with my phone and they said a snow cap and couple of Jolla stickers as replacement. Still I paid for Tablet perk and here I am, doubting every crowdfunding campaign on Indiegogo.

It’s hilarious how people repeat “this is crowdsource for you, you should have understood the risks”. The fact that a lot of people BOUGHT the tablet from the Jolla store aside, here is a simple thought:

Did you ever see a campaign that took people’s money, failed to deliver, and… just shrugged and moved on, like nothing serious happened?.. No, because a failed crowdfunding campaign means a FAILED crowdfunding campaign. ALL campaigns – even those who failed, even those who were a scam to begin with – did their best, or at least pretended to do their best, to deliver the promised product all the way until they ceased to exist.

Jolla is showing no signs of ceasing to exist. Therefore, they are OBLIGED to continue to work on their perks, or issue a full refund. No matter how you stretch the IGG’s ToS, they simply CAN NOT take the money, then fail to deliver, and then decide to “loose the burden” (jeez!) and continue to do their business saying “hey, crowdfunding is a risk!”.

People here who are whining that the tablet backers should “stop whining” are either hypocrites, complete fuckheads, or trolls.

I completely agree. Indiegogo’s terms state that perks must be delivered. Otherwise Jolla risks being taken to court.
Has anyone here seen a statement from Jolla saying that “we are not going to deliver the tablets and we will not offer you any refund or try to find another solution that you will be happy with”?

No-one? Really? No-one? From the comments here on the blogs one could be led to believe that Jolla has issued such a statement, and flipped the bird for good measure.

They have hinted at refunds but not allowed any (except for one or two mistakes?) to actually go through.

The fact that PayPal has frozen their account is proof enough that people are demanding refunds and they aren’t being processed by Jolla.

The last blog post stated outright that only a small number of people will get the tablet, so yes, they did say they are not going to deliver the tablets.

They did say we won’t be left empty handed but they haven’t said what that is. And we know they left Lastu and their contract manufacturer empty handed (didn’t pay for those tablets that are now for sale in China and India or the cases they received) So they don’t have a good track record.

What they do have a good track record of is lying through omission. They h ave never said how many tablets were shipped, what order they were going by (32gb early birds were passed over), why Russia got left out of the shipping, etc.

Jolla has said many times there will be a refund process but not what it would be other than it would have to wait until all tablets were shipped. Which would be the most expensive way of approaching that process for all involved.

They have lost their credibility. I just want them to own up to the fact they have made a business decision to break their contract with the IGG backers and those who pre-ordered. As a Canadian I probably have no recourse but those in the EU can probably get their refunds and the company will either be able to shamble on or not. But unless the company fails they shouldn’t be let off the hook for delivering and they shouldn’t be allowed infinite time to reach that failure state.

This blog post is another showcase of Communication failures. How blind can you be: promising tablet backers an update this week, but releasing a blog about new Sailfish features instead. I start to believe it is not blindness but sheer arrogance. Jolla continues its SW ventures at the expense of tablet backers.
I just need two things: refund, refund (tablet, lastu case) and I’ll be happy to leave this ship.

Dear Fellow would-be Jolla Tablet owners. I follow this blog as do you all in the vague hope of learning about what is going on at Jolla. In the absence of any new and updated information about the tablet I would like to call upon all of you to help me as I try to understand the current situation. To that end I will summarize my understand in the following bullet points below, and I ask you to either confirm or correct my pedestrian thinking:

Background: In the Nov 19th 2014 IGG campaign I signed-on as a backer for certain perks which included the 64GB version of the Tablet running Sailfish OS, the case by Lastu, and shipping. I signed-on to the campaign understanding there were certain risks involved including software development, hardware development, and indeed the financial stability and longevity of the Jolla company. Now I know some of you on this blog actually ordered the tablet from the Jolla store, but the above are the details for my situation, which I know is similar to that of many others.

1. Since the campaign Jolla have infrequently this blog with various statements about the tablet progress. However, as of today my understanding is that
(i) the Sailfish OS has actually been developed and exists today, even though Jolla have not sent me a copy;
(ii) the tablet hardware, which turned out to be a 3rd party ODM tablet, has been developed and exists today, even though Jolla have not sent me one;
(iii) the case by Lastu has been developed and exists today, even though Jolla have not sent me one;
(iv) shortly before the end of last year Jolla nearly went out of business, but then almost at the last moment they secured additional financing, which is of course good news;
(v) In December Jolla stated (rather clumsily) that they had decided not to provide most of the backers with tablets after all, but not to worry because they were working on a “surprise” which would be announced in the New Year;
(vi) Yesterday the blog was indeed updated, but Jolla have now simply stopped talking altogether about the tablet, the IGG backers, and the customers who ordered the tablet from the Jolla store.

3. Given the above then it appears to my simplistic mind that the HW, SW and accessories exist and that Jolla now has the financial backing to continue operations. It is simply that the Jolla leadership have decided not to deliver on their campaign promise after all and have now decided not to talk about it any more.

You described the progress very applicable. My sight is the same, the only difference is, that I already get the Lastu Case, because I ordered it separately directly from Lastu, but it is unuseful without the tablet for me and only an unnecessary piece of decoration

I am going to be called a “conspiracy theorist” but I am pretty sure that the Jolla’s investors agreed to continue funding if – and only if – the Tablet project will be dropped altogether. The reason for this thought is that our Tablets (that were lying on a shelf in the Chinese warehouse) appeared at Taobao at the exact time when Antti Saarnio declared that he successfully received the next share of money from the investors.

So my view is this:
1. investors demanded from Antti Saarnio to scrap the Tablet
2. Antti said “sure” because he does not give a frak about anything except money
3. Chinese manufacturer was informed that the remaining Tablets won’t be bought by Jolla
4. Chinese manufacturer started to get rid of the tablets via TaoBao to reduce money loss
5. Naturally, numerous user’s appeals to Jolla to stop this atrocity ended with nothing (you can still buy a Jolla tablet at Taobao)
6. Jolla representatives started to behave like there is no such thing as “Jolla Tablet” and it never existed.

Thank you for your reply, and SchropfeMich I can assure you that you are not a conspiracy theorist, but certainly you think very much like me.

So the point is then that despite all the noise and chatter from the fanboys along the lines of “you IGG backers should have known the risks” etc, the simple truth is that none of the risks are relevant. Jolla still exists, the software and the hardware were all developed and tablets were even delivered to some people. There was no failure in the project. It is simply that Jolla have made a business decision to not be in the tablet space after all, and yes this was most probably linked to the terms of the latest financing, but either way it is very probably the smart and correct business decision for the ongoing existence of Jolla, which is something I want to see happen. However, and this is my point, Jolla’s after-the-event decision to not play in the tablet space does not remove their moral and legal obligations to those who backed the tablet campaign and those who actually ordered the tablet on the Jolla store website. Therefore it is time for a full and proper refund to be offered. That said, such a mass refund would also quickly impact their cash position, so I am sure they would rather we would all take an alternative solution that impacts them less.

As for myself I would be happy with a full refund (64GB tablet+case+shipping), but I would also be prepared to consider an alternative solution, but it must be offered as an additional alternative to a complete refund and not as the only solution.

It is very clear to me that it is now time for Jolla stop delaying and to provide these solutions to all of the IGG backers and all of the tablet customers.

Thank you, Lance, for taking the time to write this (and these) well thought-out, reasonable posts. Your argument that “the simple truth is that none of the risks are relevant.” as you explain it, is absolutely spot on and cuts to the heart of the matter.

Thank you for your reply, and SchropfeMich I can assure you that you are not a conspiracy theorist, but certainly you think very much like me.

So the point is then that despite all the noise and chatter from the fanboys along the lines of “you IGG backers should have known the risks” etc, the simple truth is that none of the risks are relevant. Jolla still exists, the software and the hardware were all developed and tablets were even delivered to some people. There was no failure in the project. It is simply that Jolla have made a business decision to not be in the tablet space after all, and yes this was most probably linked to the terms of the latest financing, but either way it is very probably the smart and correct business decision for the ongoing existence of Jolla, which is something I want to see happen. However, and this is my point, Jolla’s after-the-event decision to not play in the tablet space does not remove their moral and legal obligations to those who backed the tablet campaign and those who actually ordered the tablet on the Jolla store website. Therefore it is time for a full and proper refund to be offered. That said, such a mass refund would also quickly impact their cash position, so I am sure they would rather we would all take an alternative solution that impacts them less.

As for myself I would be happy with a full refund (64GB tablet+case+shipping), but I would also be prepared to consider an alternative solution, but it must be offered as an additional alternative to a complete refund and not as the only solution.

It is very clear to me that it is now time for Jolla stop delaying and to provide these solutions to all of the IGG backers and all of the tablet customers.

I know the risk of a crowdsourcing campaign and I also know about the ToS and no, I’m not whining as a tablet backer w/o getting the tablet yet. But now I’m disappointed about the communication and behaviour of head of Jolla. They said, they used the money to develop SF instead of making the tablet. They showed a running tablet at MWC 2015 and later in the year, they explained they have to change several things to implement a better display in the tablet. Was that the truth or was that only a step to procrastinate the delivery of the tablet and tell the backers fables?

The IGG campaign was made for the tablet and the SF, single one of these would make no sense … but the message now is, SF is also useful for the phone and the important business case for Jolla, so forget the tablet and be happy about the SF and Jolla can continue with their business based on SF.

I use the Jolla phone since early 2015 and the phone and SF is really very good and I’m happy, that Jolla can continue developing SF and deliver updates for SF. But Jolla’s communication is disastrous and unfaithful and so Jolla will lose a lot of trust. For me, it’s hard to keep my excitement for them.

He wasn’t talking about us. He was mentioning those rich people (or maybe a single person?) who invest money in Jolla and are obviously not happy with the idea of Jolla sending those money to us as Refund.

You can buy a Lastu cover directly from lastucase.com. I have mine. I adapted it to fit my iPad mini. A Nexus 7 might fit in it as well.

Mine had some quality issues. There is a large imperfection in the leather. Also, the plastic structure that the leather is glued to is stained with something that splattered onto it then cleaned off. It is behind the device, so you don’t see it. Still, for the price, the QC should have been better. The real wood and leather makes up for some of that.

Looks like Juhani dropped this in the previous blog post today (Jan 21)

“Hi everyone. The Jolla Tablet project update is just around the corner, sorry to keep you all waiting. We realize fully the frustration and all, but we really need to figure all the practicalities before we communicate about the process going further. Stay tuned!”

The thing that bothers me is we are all obviously upset about the lack of communication so rather than communicate the broad strokes they continue with more lack of communication prompting negative speculation and more resentment towards lack of proper communication.

I guess we’re free to speculate what they may or may not be doing. I have so thoroughly lost my patience with the company mainly because of the absolutely horrid communications – it’s unbelievable how bad Juhani Lassila is at his job. I am ashamed for my country of origin.

First of all this is a blog post concirning about OS update, so wright your cries about tablet to the tablet blog post. And secondly Jolla will compensate the case tablet to the contributors so stop crying about it. After all Jolla is a Finnish company and we have a habit of done things right.

neither do I! I think Jolla can not afford to lie to its customers, it would be the death of the comany. a slow death…

The communication is really not as exact as it schould be, but i beleave it is not easy to communicate situations where the solutions may change every day. The one day it looks like the problem could be solved, an hour later you get a call that its not possible. then you trie an other option, that looks like a good way, and an other problem sucks that too! we all want clear and trustfull communication and behavior from jolla, maybe it is something that they can not provide in the situation they are in at the moment. Our complains will not make them faster or help them to make the right decissions, when there is too much to lose! I also backed a Tablet, with upgrade to 64GB and a lastu case. so what? I will not die if i dont get it in the next Month, they will sure come up with something else.
and as I am also allowed “to speculae” i think there will be some Intexphones with some other stuff for those who dont get the tablet, maybe (or for sure) me includet.

What I learned this past 40 years in this life is quite simple. Being honest about your mistakes will bring you the most in life.

A verry simple rule.
Respect is earned by being honest also when you make a mistake. Even if the mistake is stupid and completely your fault. It takes guts to confess that, especialy if it might have other implications.

BUT you will earn my respect and my commitment I will help you solve the issues created by your misstake.

Nobody is perfect, so misstakes is a simple fact of life.

Jolla IS NOT confessing they made a big misstake, is not asking for help.
All they do is covering up their mistake by telling lies or just by being silent (hoping this blows over ?)

This is not showing respect nor does this behaviour earns any respect.
Only thing this behaviour causes is frustration / hatred and irritation.

But the problem is, that even with the whole Truth there will be no satisfaction in this situation because people will not get what they gave Money for (in a risky way). So everyone wants to know diferent things. somebody wants to know the Truth even if it is bad, the other one wants to know only if it is something positive, etc.

the best Way would be everyone gets his/her tablet and a new INTEX or Fairphone as an appology. for some people even that would not be enough… the truth is thats not realistic, not even a bit.

so even if it is hard to wait for new information, we should not start with occusation and other ugly stuff when we DONT KNOW the truth! that will not bring satisfaction at all. (even if some people think that) lets just cool down and wait what happens next.

Allthough I agree with you for the most part, I totaly disagree with you on the cool down / wait part.

Jolla has had MORE than enough time / oppertunities to solve this issue.

There is no reason I can think of that explains the current way of events choosen by Jolla.

Thrust is lost, it’s something you get easily but once lost it’s hard to regain.
I see no effort at all that Jolla is willing to regain the thrust of the community and that’s causing all commotion in the comments over here.

Let there be no misunderstanding here :
It’s by choice of Jolla they are in this mess.

its OK if you found your way to deal with it.
I’m not finished with Jolla, maybe I am too gullible, but lets say i HOPE they can solve somehow the situation. There is a big hole in the Company-Boat. Some Employees have left and so on… i dont think the rest of the people working there are just sitting around and doing nothing.
The time will come when we will be able to look behind the sceens and understand the whole thing. I am willing to wait, and hope they will survive.
I dont trust the data-hungry companys we have to choose from at the moment… The world needs alternatives and that road is bumpy.

I think the crux of the issue here is that unlike TorquingGroup who did in fact give it their best but ended up bankrupt Jolla is very much still operating, they’ve just decided that they are not a hardware company anymore, exactly as lance.cornish pointed out above.

This has nothing to do with the risks of crowdfunding, and everything to do with first being a hardware company and selling hardware and then before delivering the already sold and manufactured goods deciding not to be a hardware company anymore. You can’t just decide not to be in the hardware business when you’ve already promised to deliver several thousand tablets.

A risk associated with crowdfunding looks like TorquingGroup, yes they were in over their heads and they as well as the backers paid the price for it. Jolla on the other hand took the money from the backers and from the pre-orders, had the tablets made (the hardware is available to be purchased) and THEN decided not to deliver them.

I don’t see it that way, to be completely honest. I see a lot of similarities between Jolla and Torquing. Both were enthusiastic startups formed by people with some experience from the field. Both had overconfidence and some bad planning. Both had unexpected issues which caused them to outrun their budgets. Both were abandoned by their leaders when things went wrong. The biggest difference seems to be that Torquing decided to release their device despite the software wasn’t ready while Jolla postponed the release again and again (and maybe had worse communication at least in the end).

Both did bad decisions, but I have insufficient evidence to call either of them a scam.

TorquingGroup: Fought to the end and are now in liquidation.
JollyJolla: Are sailing on trying to pretend this whole tabletGateSaga never happened.

Scam is a strong word. I do not really believe they set out with the intent of scamming us. I understand that they are where they are simply because of wrong decision and a bit of bad timing.

But
Treating their backers like “Mushrooms” leaves a bad taste about the whole thing. I actually think this will hurt them more in the long term than not delivering tablets. I can lose ~$250! This does not really bother me too much. But Jolla have lost ME and lot of others…

I don’t think that this is quite right. What I think happened is that Jolla contracted with a Chinese company to build the Tablets, but didn’t have the money to pay for them, so the company started selling them (or sold them to another company that is selling them) through Taobao.

“Are sailing on trying to pretend this whole tabletGateSaga never happened.” (Hugh)

Even though I agree that the communication is inadequate, I didn’t get the notion that they try to pretend nothing had happened. There’s a whole blog post dedicated to the tablet failure (the one with a paper airplane on a black background).

I know it’s frustrating that Jolla posts things that are not tablet-related, but the reality is that the uncertain situation with the tablet isn’t a reason to just stop everything else the company is doing. As I said earlier, majority of Jolla’s customers are the people who own the phone. We actually wait for those OS updates.

But I totally agree that Jolla people should be more open and leave less space for speculation. IMO they should make at least a statement regarding the Indian website ASAP.

“I actually think this will hurt them more in the long term than not delivering tablets.”

You are probably right.

“No, that is not what happened. They sold our tablets to another company who is currently selling them.” (asdf23)

Is this a fact or just free speculation? Do you have some new information?

That would be my guess too and I kind of hope that’s true since that would mean that there are tablets with Sailfish OS out there. Of course there are the ethical considerations – If the backers and preorderers haven’t had their tablets or money back, would ordering one now be an asshole thing to do? (Then again maybe not since the more money Jolla gets the more likely it is that they can give it back to the unhappy people. I don’t know. Just speculating.)

The company that is selling the Jolla Tablets is selling them with Android, not Sailfish OS, installed. As far as running SailfishOS, a typically bad Google translation of the product info says:

“If there is a real fan of swordfish, sailfish Sailfish to the original system, please contact customer service, Tel: 13052078120, you can book in advance payment, 20-30 days can be shipped, sailfish system version is issued directly to the company’s warehouse in Finland Jolla; the price is 1280 yuan”

If there are people who are willing to pay that much for a Jolla tablet, Jolla should maybe consider producing more tablets and selling them…

Or maybe. Just maybe. What if all the delays were actually a scheme to create an image that somewhere there is a tablet that nobody can get? Just to create interest. “I can’t have it, therefore it must be awesome.” Like Cartmanland.

Seriously!? Could you guys please make separate Blogs for Sailfish OS and the Jolla Tablet?? I’m checking the blog almost daily and I’m guessing a vast majority of the other clicks are also because of the Tablet. Now guess how many of those guys are giving a dann about yet another OS Update we are NEVER going to get to use?
I’m wondering what replacement we will get. Dont you dare to send me one of your old phones. Maybe a gadget of your new indian associate. I doubt it will satisfy many backers.

I understood that using IGG was not a safe investment.
My biggest issue is that I’m number 179 and still waiting my tablet. I also ordered Tuohi cover, payed both and now I understood that I have lost my money.
What I want is that I need to be one of the earlier investors getting Jolla tablet

As a phone user I’m really happy, but what with Bluetooth support? Can now android apps use BT or can I send music or documents? Because this is stupid that I’ve so amazing phone, wich can do nearly everything but can’t send files over BT (only photos and movies).

14th of January 2016:
14:44:48 #info statement from Juhani Lassila, Head of communications @ Jolla : Antti Saarnio promised in the previous meeting that the Tablet project would be resolved around New Year?s time, but unfortunately it took a little more time. Now we finally have a resolution agreed and we?re now preparing the practicalities and the communication. An update should be out in a few days (next week).

unfortunately preparing the practicalities took a little more time. now finally we have a blog post agreed and we’re now preparing the technicalities and the communication. An update should be out in a few weeks (next month)

Unfortunately the technicalities are far too technical and until the science is in, it simply wouldn’t be responsible to attempt to describe such a nuanced problem to all our backers. An update should be out when more information is available (never)

unfortunately the scientifical problematics had to be fathomed based on philosophical theorys that can only be resolved by traveling back in time and asking platon. Now we finally have a drawing of a time machine agreed and we’re now preparing the practicalities and the time machine construction. An update should be out when Antti is coming back from his journey back in time (very soon).

I pledged for a DeLorean, and instead they spent the money on a Flux Capacitor. What good is the Flux Capacitor if you don’t have the DeLorean to run it on!!! Now Antti has to get his parents to kiss at the enchantment under the sea dance or the whole universe if f@#$ed!

Brought myself an iPad mini 4 last week. Love the hardware, but the soft… it needs some serious improvement
Don’t know how many times I tried to close the app by swiping from top to bottom
Shade that Jolla went down the drain…

Well, I have a lot of patience, but with all the jolla lies and now the attacks from the fanbois, I am getting at the end of it. I am thinking of starting a small claims procedure (https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_small_claims-42-en.do) if there is no satisfactory communication by jolla by the end of the week (friday 29 at 17h). By satisfactory, I mean either a delivery date for the tablet and perks, a procedure and date for a full refund, or an alternative that doesn’t involve gifting more money to jolla in order to receive something acceptable of the same value (eg. an equivalent Intex tablet, etc.).
I never thought that when I decided to support jolla I’d be so upset with its owners and fanbois by now.

We can set up a filled up template for everyone in google docs or something, and make sure we all take the appropriate steps to fill the small claim. I can wait a little more so that we all make the claim together – it is not like I have high hopes of recovering the money.
I was hoping for a lawyer in our ranks to help, but that might be aiming too high.

I have also a lot of patience, but now it is enough!
Thank you for the link, i will prefer to pay for a lawyer instead for JOLLA.
It is really annoying, that nobody from JOLLA gave as answers what happend with our money!
I thought i will get a tablet with Sailfish OS, i paid for the tablet, shipping, memory extension and wooden case from Lastu and got nothing!
I think we have to create a campain, to sue JOLLA.

I am proceeding with the HK authorities (next step will be the HK Police). This is what I have got until now:

We refer to your complaint against Jolla Asia Ltd and regret to learn of your unpleasant experience.

(…)

Referring to the information submitted, you mentioned that a case of possible fraud was found. In this connection, you may wish to report the case to the law enforcement body, Hong Kong Police Force (http://www.police.gov.hk/index.html).

In the meantime, if you paid to the above trader and has not received any goods, please send forth a copy of online reservation order and payment record (i.e. credit card payment record) for our further study.

@jollakooth It’s less about fanboyism (which it is to a certain degree, as there are a lot of positive emotions involved since day one). The nakd truth is that there’s no alternative to Sailfish at the moment if you’re looking for a mobile device that runs more or less the same OS as your GNU/Linux desktop system and is still usable as a main phone. In theory, the only other choice would be Ubuntu, it shares much of the technical details. Unfortunately, it lacks so many features that it’s not really a reasonable choice as a daily phone. So Jolla has some sort of monopoly here ATM (just like Nokia had before) and to a certain degree, we have no other choice than to support them.

Micorsoft exchange synchronisation for example. When your company uses it, you have no choice but a phone that supports it. I know I can connect on internet but it is not as comfortable as to have everything (calendars and emails) in my phone even without connection.

This is my first comment here and my first bad words about Jolla. My patience expired after 8 months, given that the original tablet shipping date was May 2015. I have followed Jolla communication (and reactions) for years now. This clearly turned into some kind of war between customers and the company, deepened by various levels of ignorance.

I would support Jolla quite blindly if there was any hope for receiving anything for my contribution with keeping the company alive, which seemed to be the case until now. (I mean if Jolla is dead, we surely will not get anything.) I am a tablet contributor from the first minutes with several upgrades, fallen behind the delivered tablet batch by several orders.

I see the only way now to get things rolling and overcome the ignorance is to take legal action. I am willing to join @jbernardo, but I am afraid the connections to Jolla Asia Ltd, HK (the company officially running the tablet campaign) need to be dug up for any level of success. I most likely will not be called a conspiration theorist if the involvement of this company is said to be a conscious legal protection from Jolla and part of risk assessments for the tablet project. However, there is for sure a way bigger or trickier legal process ahead of contributors than a “European Small Claim”, despite being clear that they are connected and crowd-funded money was flowing to Jolla Ltd.

I would like to hear ideas, how the community of contributors should take the first step here instead of always just reacting on the actions of Jolla. It might be wise to open this topic on another forum.

I am a little puzzled over that not a single email has arrived from Jolla regarding put order. Not a single one since the order was placed.
I do hope that Jolla get on their feet but actually asked for a refound just a while ago and today the refound was transmitted.
Not a comment regarding my request or any explanations, just delivered the refound.
I may come back to Jolla in 2016 if they manage to produce a phone with a massively better camera (not bigger footprint on the phone however) and perhaps also a tablet but that remains to be seen.

Some people here in the thread are like children …

Jolla shouldnt refound the backers at all in my opinion before ordinary buyers have the CHANCE TO DO SO. You backers people took a chance, a bet…

Keep my fingers cross that Jolla communicate through email to the buyers and dont keep the silence as they have been doing. One shouldnt have to look up the information on a website…especially when the delays are so huge.

thank God nobody is asking you for opinion… Before you start craping around to backers, you should visit IGG terms of use which Jolla agreed to comply before they started a campaign. It is under dispute between campaign owner and backer.

@ prometheus phone users are happy, they did not have to pay a penny for their software improvements. The Tablets backers did. I dont think Jolla will be lucky again to raised 2.5 millions again, at least via crowdfunding.

All the time you have spent on these blog articles, all the time..all these “nice” and humble comments…why dont you sue Jolla instead of all this time consuming efforts on writing reocurring comments? Time is money and you have spent xxx hours at least. Tomorrow, the same pucedure? Do you have autoamtic alarms when to write on this blog…My Lord (or any boss of a saga religion), give him a hug and strength to continue the battle on internet.

As Tor wrote: on January 21, 2016.
“because they’re not using the money you paid (or the money *I* paid for the phone I also own). They’re siphoning the money from the contracts they have with us (for producing tablet hardware) to instead pay the software updates they are providing you. And that’s not what our money was supposed to be used for. This is how a Ponzi scheme is started”.
Also. As ScumCoder wrote:
“Jolla was taking pre-orders in August-September 2015 and suggesting people to pay their taxes, exactly when they (as they admitted later) were experiencing financial problems. In other words, they were taking money from NEW customers to fulfill the orders of the OLD customers. Which is the exact definition of Ponzi scheme.”

@federico1828: Actually, the development of the OS for the phone hase stalled since they started the tablet program. Almost all development effort was tablet related. Worse, it didn’t result in new features, but was needed opnly to make SF run on the tablets at all.

The phone was an afterthought – you can tell from the new UI that was custom-made for the tablet, but works only so-so on the phone. (At least a lot of users are unhappy with it.) There’s no reason why phone users should be happy. In 2014, updates brought new functionality and we could see the OS improve very quickly from month to month. In 2015, this was no longer the case and changelogs were full of adaptations for the tablet hardware.

@federico1828: “Yeah whatever” is the very essence of your reasoning, right?

It’s not *others* who lost money. It’s me. I supported the campaign, too, and never got anything in return. Plus, I didn’t get the bug fixes and new features in the OS for my phone that would have happened if Jolla weren’t so busy re-writing many existing parts for the tablet.

The difference is that you act as if all this was a personal attack against you, a conspiracy driven by malice. I on the other hand don’t think I’m the center of this universe. I read and understand what I read. It’s obvious that they had the best intentions and failed, partly because they weren’t prepared for the project, partly because of bad luck when all the bad things seemed to happen at once. We’ll see what happens.

You can smear & insult the people who are dissatisfied with Jolla as much as you like. It won’t change the fact that at very best they have dissembled, at worst deliberately lied, and obfuscated what is going on.

You talk about “bad luck”. “Bad Luck” is when your consignment is burned on the docks, or your ship sinks in transit, or….

Jolla, on the contrary, have displayed Bad Judgement and almost hilarious levels of incompetence. If myself, and a few friends, unversed in business were to start an Indiegogo campaign to build a Tablet your comments might be justified. Jolla, however is an established business with all the staffing & infrastructure needed to manage this campaign to a successful conclusion. The clear fact that it failed properly to deploy these staff and resources using them instead to develop Software for other projects is what is so annoying.

Had they been honest and simply said (4-5 months ago) “Sorry contributors we screwed up. There won’t be any Tablets” Many, myself included, would have been disappointed, a bit annoyed, perhaps, but c’est la vie. Instead Jolla keeps pretending that there is some nebulous “resolution” other than losing our cash.

How long should they have in order to bring this situation to a resolution? They do have a duty to their backers. There is no specific duty to any one backer, but as a collective group (including pre-order customers) they have a duty to do what they said they would do.

Regardless of incompetence or malice or acts of angry deities Jolla must try to meet the terms they set out which we agreed to in providing money to them. There must be a point where it is unreasonable for Jolla to remain silent and where they must make good on the promise.

My suspicion is that the tablet project was only ever about attracting licensees for SFOS, and it hasn’t panned out as intended.

So what’s the best way to take legal action against Jolla, I know we are an international community and I think united front would be best. I live in the US, is there a place in the EU I can send a complaint to?

It does suggest that, because that’s what Juhani told them. I’m from Germany and read the article, too. They say that Juhani Lassila was very reluctant to give clear answers to their questions but told them a solution to bring several hundred tablets to the backers is in the works.
However, he also states that “a refund of this magnitude is not a trivial task”, which seems to be business code for “never gonna happen”.
Asked if he thinks Jolla is legally and morally obliged to refund or deliver, now that they did not file for bankruptcy was answered with “That’s a matter of interpretation”.
So… the press does not get more out of them as we do…

Lassila’s gave a short interview to German IT news portal Heise Online. His statements sound as nebulous as Angela Merkel’s. However, reading between the lines one could get the Impression that most of us will probably end up “empty-handed”.

Juhani Lassila: “A refund at this scale is not a trivial task. We are currently discussing the exact procedures.” Lassila also said: “We are Close to a solution to deliver another small batch of tablets.” However, this will be limited to a few hundred units. Lassila was reluctant to give any specific number of such batch. Some speculate whether Jolla will compensate the other backers with an Intex smartphone. Asked whether Jolla might be obliged either to deliver the tablets or refund all backers unless it files for bankruptcy, Lassila said: “This is a matter of Interpretation. We are preparing a solution that we can accomplish.”

Well that quote seems pretty cut and dry that they are looking for a way of abandoning their fiduciary duty to the backers.

I still don’t get why they would bother with any more tablets. Seems pretty clear that any one who pre-ordered should be going through their credit card company to issue a charge back for failure to deliver

I tried looking but couldn’t find what the legal structure is between Jolla Oy and Jolla Asia Ltd. When they spun the HW division out did it have the finances to finish the tablet project or was it sabotaged from the start? Realistically it had no potential for revenue in the short term and likely was paying a license to Jolla Oy. Do we know if it was a per unit license or how it was structured?

1. ABOUT THESE TERMS OF SALE
1.1 These Terms of Sale (“Terms”), together with the Jolla Account Terms of Service, set out the terms and conditions that will apply when you place an order through Jolla operated web shops. Please note that the terms and conditions that apply to ordering pre-order products differ on certain parts from the terms and conditions that apply to ordering other products. Such differences will be explained later in these Terms. If you are unable to understand, or have any questions about these Terms please contact Jolla. You will be required to confirm that you have read and accept these Terms before you submit an order to Jolla. Please note that these Terms are subject to change so review and save or print a copy of the current terms and conditions prior to each order that you submit.

The pre-order products are sold and delivered to you by Jolla Mobile. In connection with the sales of pre-order products, Jolla will collect the orders and payments for pre-order products on behalf of Jolla Mobile.

The other products available through the web shops are sold and delivered to you by Jolla.

1.3 These Terms do not affect your legal (statutory) rights under your applicable national laws relating to the sale of consumer products.

Update: Asked directly whether the new Jolla company was committed to making new hardware Saarnio told TechCrunch he can confirm “it is committed” to building new devices but added: “There’s a limitation that the company is not yet established so there’s a plan to start producing it. I personally believe they will start producing smart hardware, smartphones or smart devices, in the future. That’s the plan and the intention.”

[ ... ] Saarnio will be taking charge of the new software-focused Jolla Ltd. Former CEO Tomi Pienimäki, has been appointed to a new position “outside the company”, in which he will move during August — so presumably he’s joining the as-yet unnamed Jolla device business. Although perhaps not as CEO [ ... ]

It has been about a week since Taalojärvi shipped for the Jolla Tablet and I am wondering if you could give us an update on the following:

Number of users running Taalojärvi
Number of bugs opened.
Number of bugs closed.
Given the feedback received so far, will this cause the Jolla Tablet to be shipped sooner or to Indiegogo backers or later to Indiegogo backers than you had planned before Taalojärvi’s release

I’ve done what I said I was going to do but they got me another time. “In dubio pro reo”.

But once bitten twice shy – or better, starting to get get angry.

This was the response to the refund request – and I fell for it!

———- BEGIN citation 25 JAN 2016 ———-

“Jolla Service and Support, Jan 25, 12:35

Hello:

you contacted us with a Tablet refund request. As you might know, Jolla has been facing **a difficult and unclear situation** , which in turn has impacted the **Tablet project**. There have been some recent signs of improvement ( **press release** , **Jolla Blog** ), however, we currently do not have an immediate individual resolution regarding your original request.

Any and all information regarding the Tablet project can be found in the **Jolla Blog**. Currently we are preparing an update for the Blog, but are still in the process of confirming some final details before we can publish it. As soon as these details are confirmed, this information will be communicated along with any (potential) instructions via that channel or via the email you used when making your original contribution.

Therefore, and in light of the above, no further action is required of you at this point regarding your request.

Thank you for your continued patience and understanding.

We look forward to resolving this with you as soon as we can.”

————- END citation ———–

Jolla is lucky – you will get an extension until the 20 FEB 2016. I have no time to insist on the refund request at this moment.

GET ME THE HARDWARE I PAID FOR – I still do not care about the OS! Xcfe is perfectly fine for what I need on a tablet.

AGAIN!
- No need for SMS
- No need for social network integration
- No need for phone services
- No need for fancy stuff as all my LINUX programs take care of that!

I would like to ask about some features I’ve been hoping for:
1) You can choose 3 applications, you can “access quickly” from the lock screen. These applications still need the key combination to access. What if I would like there to be some applications that didn’t require the code that opens the phone? Like the ICE (in case of emergency). If something was to happen to me, I’d like someone to be able to call to some numbers with my phone.
2) When you write a text message, I’d like to see to whom I’m texting to. I had a few messages that I’ve texted to wrong person, because I didn’t see the receiver while texting

Hi. There has been a few critical bugs / issues, which has taken longer than expected, and we apologize for that. Our team now has fixes in place, but the software needs to first go through another early access round and then it is released to everybody. Should not take more than 2 weeks, unless something unexpected occurs.

If I factory reset my Jolla, is it possible to upgrade and stop at Björnträsket (1.1.7.28)? I don’t need and like the v2 look and feel of Eineheminlampi (1.1.9.30) and the real version 2 has made my phone quite restricted. Two apps cannot run simultaneously as before. My phone was quite good with Björnträsket but now it is barely usable. I have been waiting long for this next release but I don’t have much hope that it will restore anything to a usable state. Just a handful new features that I don’t think I need and a some fixes of bugs that I didn’t know exists. No fixes of bugs that I suffer from.

What would be much more awesome: Buyable devices.
Since the jollaPhone is out of stock there is no way to get a Sailfish OS device.
Getting the OS to the people means you have to first bring devices to the people.
So please give us a Fairphone (2) with Sailfish OS, or something else… just something.

Oh yeah. Thanks for the update. Now there’s I-don’t-even-remember-what-I-was-waiting-in-the-first-place for the phone too :). For the next update I’d love to have an opportunity to copy any text from any app (at least from the Browser!!) to clipboard. Cheers!

Maybe for the public release you should not have re-posted the beta release article with all of its tablet-mess related comments beneath, but posted a “fresh” one instead – it’s hard to find actual comments concerning the new software version…

Hi,
great to hear that. But to have the possibility to buy a device would be even geater.
Please get any sailfish OS device to EU market.
Even better if also affordable (like former Jolla or Intex device)
Please help us helping You making Money…

Why would Jolla neglect Europe out of lack of interest? With multiple Chinese companies entering the market and building up major distribution networks (which Jolla can’t create by its own), why wouldn’t they take a Sailfish phone in their future portfolio?

* Intex (which is their only partner now) has no plans to support Sailfish phones in Europe.

* Their lack of communication did alienate a lot of their supporters and means that there less supporters left.

So in my opinion, with less demand due to less supporters and no suppliers in Europe there is no chance that a Sailfish phone or Sailfish table will enter the European market. The mayor alienation of their user base in at least Europe makes it a lot harder for any supplier of Sailfish device to enter the market. With that in mind I don’t think we will ever see a Sailfish device in Europe any time soon.

Thank you for a much awaited update. My Jolla phone keeps getting better and better, but I still hope to be able to buy a brand new phone with Sailfish OS in a near future. I appreciate Jolla being a real alternative to traditional companies, not just same same but different name. I love Open Source, community driven development, and crowdfunding projects (no matter how they turn out). Keep coding and sailing <3

Hi larsmaria. Thanks for the support! If you noticed our teaser in our latest press release, we have a new community program launching very soon, which will have a device related offering too. Follow the updates to learn more!

Hi Friends. Who is hoping to have a refund from Jolla? They stole our money, period. They used it to make profit. That’s life.
We just can bother them and make bad advertising to them on social networks. But for sure we will have no refund. They lied about this as they lied about the tablet from start.

Hey tojocky. Yes we realized this – usually when the early access phase for releases are shorter the old comments are still relevant, but here it really didn’t work. But since there were already new comments, we decided not to delete it. We just need to try to live with it now Next blog posts coming soon!

I haven’t upgraded yet. Does this release make a noticeable improvement? My phone doesn’t run smooth at all. It often freezes for tens of seconds and I can’t have more than two or three apps running simultaneous. If I open a new app one of the others closes down. Sometimes with information losses.

I think the late 1.1.x versions worked much smoother. Now, I can’t even listen to music and run a navigation app simultaneous. Even if they both run, I can only hear one of them. This actually worked before. I miss this feature a lot.

I will try this new release but if it still doesn’t work I’ll try to downgrade if that is possible. Am I really the only one that thinks 2.0 is much worse than 1.1? Maybe it is just my device/configuration.

So, what do you really mean that your phone runs smoothly? Can you multitask as before, for example. In version 1.1.x you could run two videos at the same time, one minimized in the background and one in full screen, and slide the foreground half away and see the both videos. Not very usable but it showed the power of the OS.

Hi. This demo with videos is still possible but not with 2 native apps. You need to have the first video running in a native app, and the second video running in an Android app for the peeking to work.
Peeking with native apps is broken in 2.x and freezes the GUI.

This particular model lacks the MHL, which makes it impossible to enjoy the awesome “convergence” feature Ubuntu is mostly known for. (Apart from that though, it’s a great phone with great opensource OS).

What was that supposed to mean? If by “Sailfish phone” you meant Jolla 1, then the answer is no. I did not mean to attack neither Meizu Pro 5 not Ubuntu in general, I just wanted to warn anyone who would want to buy this model that it’s impossible to attach external monitor to it (aside from WiDi).