California, Where Gun Owners are Criminals Until Proven Innocent

California has a slew of new gun laws going into effect in 2019 including cracking down more tightly on ammunition purchases. If you live in the Golden State now is the time to stock up on ammo, before July of 2019 arrives.

Another, passed by California voters in 2016 and going into effect in July 2019, will mandate background checks for the purchase of ammunition. Besides sending gun enthusiasts into a frenzy to buy ammunition, the new law will mean a lot paperwork, Curtis said.

“I can only imagine the amount of paperwork and stress it’s going to be on the ammo coming in and out,” Curtis said. “The paperwork’s already ridiculous — we do the exact same paperwork as every other state, but then we have to do our own additional paperwork (for the state) as well.”

A background check costs around $35, but it also entails forms and paperwork, and, most crucially, time. Even though the state can quickly determine if a background check runs clean, the wait time lasts around 10 days. Legislators call that a “cooling off” time — intended to make those looking to rashly purchase a firearm rethink their decisions.

“They make it sound like we’re all criminals until we’re proven innocent,” Curtis said.

Full tilt? My guess by the end of 2019 or July 01, 2020. It truly sucks living in this shit hole state!
Warning America: This state is like a STD. Infectious and spreads. Just look at the neighboring states.

Most STDs can be cured. We Californians are a cancer. Once we’ve invaded your state, the diagnosis is terminal. Just ask Oregonians and Coloradans.

It’s yet another reason you citizens of free states should be encouraging Californians to stay and (fecklessly) fight. It also keeps Giffords/Bloomberg dollars focused here instead of creeping into your state and local legislatures.

Texas also isn’t doing so well, right there with California. Don’t be surprised when Texas starts becoming another California. Californian folk are flocking to Austin like they did Portland, therefore Apple is catching that wave.

With Apple it probably has something to do with the corporate tax rates in California prompting them to move to a state with lower taxes. Even though their revenue exceeds the GDP of more than half the nations in the world, they still want more.

As a lifetime Austinite, we’ve seen waves of both Californians and New Yorkers come and go over the years. More tend to stay now, but a lot of them tend to stay a few years and then move back.

They complain about the food. They complain about the lack of “culture.” They complain about the heat. They complain about the bugs. They complain about the floods. They complain about the utter lack of alarm about guns and that most people voting blue here have them.

After a while they get frustrated and decide they would rather pay $12 for a bicycle delivered soy milk mocha latte than spend one more minute putting up with us strangely placid Texans.

The ones who stay eventually show up at my range and spend like $400 on renting a shit ton of guns and boxes and boxes of ammo.

Living in Texas is like being captured by the Borg. Stay here long enough and you will assimilate.

Elections have consequences. Guns, armed self-defense, the Second Amendment, , gun civil rights, they are simply not a priority with a vast majority of Voters in the state of California. And as well as the elected leaders they support.

But getting “free” marijuana from the government is a priority. Having sex in public, walking around naked in public on days the government gives you permission is a priority with California voters.

Forcing the closure of the last gun store in San Francisco is a priority with California voters.

Disarming the last rural schools in California that allowed armed teachers volunteer to carry a gun in school, is high priority with California elected officials that the voters supported.

I agree. Immigration and the environmnet are also higher priorities than 2A rights with most folks in CA. In addition we have a car culture here and engage in a lot of outdoor ocean/land activities. It doesn’t help either that the left media hides daily DGU’s in CA. I’ve been stocking up on ammo, but the reality is I will either start shooting less and/or shoot more less-expensive ammo. With the expected rise in ammo prices after July 1st, POTG in CA will find a way to adapt.

The same people who want to have legal importation of narcotics, those same people will be at the border stopping people and checking them, for out of state ammo purchases.

I expect Liberals to be at out of state gun stores, taking pictures of cars with California licences plates. And then reporting them to the future California KGB. Yes that’s right I said it. Or the future California Gestapo. But don’t worry. There will be plenty of homosexual members in the California Gestapo. That will make it ok.
This is not sarcasm. I’m am serious.

California has a history of posting cameras across the street from gun stores to photograph who goes in and out.

CA wont and doesn’t have the time or money to enforce most of it’s new gun laws. CA has much bigger problems (immigration, health, environment, drugs, gangs, state budget, etc.) than guns. I only shoot once a month, but everytime I go I see, “high capacity mags” unmodified ARs, folks sharing guns and ammo with folks in the next bay/bench, the RO doesn’t care becuse we are keeping things safe. On calguns forums some off duty LE’s “claim” they wont enforce these laws that aren’t hurting anyone. Just observations, but I’d error on the safe side myself. The CA gov or media will start to figure out that when crime keeps going up as they pass more gun control, this 5h!t ain’t workin’.

I think the thing that bothers me the most about gun control is that gun owners who are not regularly on sites often think background checks for gun sales are justified or other gun control that has already been there. I was talking about taking suppressors off the nfa and he told me “What if bad guys get them though?” He really said that. A gun owner. No research nothing. Guess what criminals make them all the time. Just look through crime photos of confiscated guns from criminals they use all sorts of things as suppressors.
Most of the time the media sharing the pictures don’t even realize what it is. I don’t consider it very practical either. I think most criminals would not use them if they were more accessible. It usually seems to be stupid ones. I have as many anti gun conversations with gun owners though as I do with people who do not own guns. I think it’s a real problem.

I work in information, instruction and tech. It absolutely blows my mind that in this day and age people remain ignorant even of subjects in which they have an interest. Right there in the pocket of everyone is a magical device which instantly brings the user any and all information from the moment time began to today and it seems like more people than ever have no idea what they hell they’re talking about.

Faces are in screens 24/7 yet nothing is learned. WTF are they doing with all that screen time?

This is not liberalism this is full blown police authoritarianism. Why do people let this happen it’s a small section of people the police and the lawmakers? I do not see how any of this is legal and I am starting to think legal is an oxymoron. Cops and criminals get guns we don’t? Nope not making sense. Look what they are doing in Boulder, CO. Cops are what percentage of the population, and POTG are what population?

This is not liberalism this is full blown police authoritarianism. Why do people let this happen it’s a small section of people the police and the lawmakers? I do not see how any of this is legal and I am starting to think legal is an oxymoron. Cops and criminals get guns we don’t? Nope not making sense. Look what they are doing in Boulder, CO. Cops are what percentage of the population, and POTG are what population?

The same thing confuses the hell out of me too. I’m amazed out how often I run into someone who guesses at, disputes or pleads ignorance of some easily available fact. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve said, “Look it up.”

Their looking at pictures of their friends eating lunch, or videos of popping pimples. Cats playing the piano, or walking around parking lots paying no attention to cars trying to catch a poke’ lizard thing. Talking to people on that “chat app” deal that makes you have bunny ears. You know important stuff, I see it all day at work. What’s sad is these are adults, the kids are usually sitting in a shopping cart watching cartoons on a tablet.

Yep. My opinion: it is because people only think to the first or second step of an issue, not out to the 10th step.

Hands down, the people I hear say “There should be a law against that” the MOST are cops who vote Republican and consider themselves conservative. I’m like….but wait, aren’t you against big government? But you think there needs to be a law against everything you don’t like? I never hear the liberals I know say there should be a law against everything like these guys do.

Many of them also believe in aliens, which I find equally interesting.

In terms of party affiliation I am GOP but, on the ‘political compass’ I’m better described as a right of center libertarian. Most of the people I interact with are similar to me or are to my left. From my perspective, the farther left one is the more likely they are to want the government to control what I say, what I own, what I do with what I own, how I spend my money and how much of it the government gets to take and spend for me. Obviously I don’t know the particular Republican police you are referring too but, my experience is almost 180 degrees out of phase.

In some respects I agree, the liberals (language abandons me a bit here because I am ‘liberal’ but I’m using liberal in the current American vernacular to mean left) I know don’t necessarily call for “laws against that thing” but they sure do seem to want to dictate and circumscribe the behavior of others. My right leaning friends might say, “you shouldn’t do that” but my left leaning friends are the ones who say, “you should not be *allowed* to do that.” To me it really all comes down to freedom vs. control – regardless of whether or not the control mechanism is law, regulation, coercion, or some other form of social pressure.

Most of the Republicans I see want drug to be illegal for everyone, including adults, even if it’s for medical purposes. They like to start wars in other countries to police the world. They want more funding and power for the military and police. They want restrictions on the economy to “protect” America. They want government spying and no fly lists to catch terrorists. They don’t want to get rid of NSA, DHS, ICE, TSA and the like because it’s to keep America “safe.” They don’t mind torture and no due process of law. They put a certain country before America and require you to sign a contract not to boycott that country if you work for the government or contract with them. They are quick to call for punishments of people that don’t stand for the anthem or burn U.S. flags in protest. They don’t mind mixing government with Christianity, but they do mind mixing Islam. They support corporations, wall street and bankers by claiming it’s free market capitalism. And so on.

They are as authoritarian as the Democrats. Both parties love them some nanny/police state. The difference is how they want to have it implemented. When you back the police wholeheartedly you are an authoritarian, whether you know it or not. Doesn’t matter if you are wearing the boots or licking them.

“Most of the Republicans I see want drug to be illegal for everyone, including adults, even if it’s for medical purposes. They like to start wars in other countries to police the world. . .”

This applies to some Republicans in the same way that socialism applies to some Democrats. Perhaps you didn’t notice that **those** kinds of Republicans are in sharp decline with many leaving government, either voluntarily or being voted out of office. The reason for this is that a new conservative grassroots insurgency has appeared which is very different from **those** kinds of Republicans, It not only is responsible for electing Donald Trump—who is anything but the kind of Republican you describe and is waging an internecine war with the Republican “establishment” as a result—but it is steadily assuming control of the Republican party. It ain’t business as usual.

I think what a lot of folks don’t realize is that those of us who are liberal also get rained on by the SJW’s. We don’t know what to make of them either. They don’t actually seem particularly liberal (as in, not generous or tolerant which is part of the textbook definition of liberal) and to me they actually don’t seem that Soclalist either, compared to the actual Socialists I know (i.e. my Vietnamese family). That ethos of sharing isn’t really there. I think a lot of conservatives don’t realize how much being an old school liberal gets you in trouble with the SJW crowd as well.

Personally I don’t see how Socalism could ever really take root in this culture. It makes sense in Vietnam because the Vietnamese culture is already based on many of the same principles; it’s how they tend to do things anyway, so it’s not much of a conflict. United States culture couldn’t be more different. We are not sharing. We are individualistic, quarrelsome, and very very resistant to having anyone tell us what to do. It’s what makes things great and also makes them frustrating.

I just don’t see the US as having the cultural basis for any kind of real Socialist movement. It’s just not how we do, and we aren’t likely to bend that way either.

The modern democrat party are THE domestic enemies our Founders warned us about. What these terrorists don’t realize is that we will DEFEND ourselves and our Constitutional Republic against their “War of Leftist Aggression” that will undoubtedly lead to the literal genocide of 10’s of millions of these Liberal Terrorists™️.

Cops voting Republican?? Not around the Chicago area. The liberals here DO want more laws….and they never met a tax increase they didn’t like. Cook county has a per bullet tax. Our new governor will probably make it state-wide. We can’t buy a gun without a FOID card. Can’t by ammo without that FOID card. If you find a gun in a park under a merry-go-round, you become a felon in Illinois if you pick it up without having a FOID card. The politicians don’t really care about the kids. They’re more interested in more notches in their belt when they arrest/fine you. Oh, and their cousin is a great defense lawyer…if you need one.

Why the hell will California gun owners not just give up and push for a FOID card system. Say what you will about Illinois’s FOID card, but:

1) It is $10 per 10 years, so not much of a financial burden.
2) Universal background check for private purchases that are FREE and only records are the phone call (that can be for anything) and what is retained by the private parties. Only cost is a phone call to verify the other persons FOID card.
3) Provides an instant background check for ammo purchases at retail.
4) Provide a method for loaning firearms to “verified” individuals (I’m looking at you Florida)

But then you will not have all the extra cost an hurdles to owning a firearm that seams to be more of the purpose of these laws than any attempt at reducing the criminal use of firearms.

You’re seriously defending the FUDD er FOID?!? I say it’s unconstitutional BS. Beyond Big Brother & a police state infringement. And I can get all the ammo I want in nearby Indiana without showing squat…God’s country.

Sorry, Surf, but you’ve bought into a lie.
Obamacare’s fee for not having insurance is not, and never was, a “tax,” despite what Roberts said.
It was presented as a fine, and remains a fine. The administration argued in front of Rpberts that it was NOT a tax. A tax would have been (and remains) unconstitutional.
As a fine, it’s still unconstitutional, because of the tenth amendment.
Just because the SCOTUS says it’s so doesn’t make it so. It only makes it legal.
The distinction should be obvious.

That’s the idea. They want any prospective gun owners to know there is a bunch of bullshit involved with buying a gun, and they want to make it so confusing, that in order to avoid breaking a law, they won’t even go to the trouble of sorting through the bullshit before they ever get invested in the idea of owning firearms.

“A “Certificate of Eligibility” certifies the Department of Justice (DOJ) has checked its records and determined the recipient is not prohibited from acquiring or possessing firearms at the time the firearms eligibility criminal background check was performed. A COE is a pre-requisite licensing/permit requirement for all prospective licensed firearms dealers, licensed ammunition vendors, manufacturers, certified instructors, gun show promoters, explosive permit holders, and other firearm related employment activities, including, effective January 1, 2018, any agent or employee of a vendor who handles, sells, or delivers firearms and ammunition. The initial COE application process includes a firearms eligibility criminal background check and issuance of a certificate, which is valid for one year. Thereafter, the COE must be renewed annually. A COE can be revoked, at anytime, if the COE holder becomes prohibited from owning/possessing firearms and ammunition. “

The State wants to charge gun owners out of the market. The richer ones that will always vote Republican(on everything else) don’t care as much, because it just might take a gun away from a poorer person, who they don’t want to have guns anyway. A FOID card in Ca would cost hundreds of dollars and would continue to cost more and more.

The idea is that Ca shooters should pay the bills for anyone who has gotten shot(and subsequent investigations), even if the shooter was using an illegal gun.

Yep, and then CA lawmakers will start screeching when they realize you can buy *thousands* of rounds at a time. I’d give it two years at most and they will pass another law severely restricting the amount of ammo you can buy at once

I honestly believe that some of the antis think that mag capacity limits are reducing the availability of ammo. We’ve all heard about Diana Degette and her, “These magazines are ammo and once they’re used up there won’t be any more” gaff. Well, I’ve heard others say things that indicate similar levels of misconception. Just like everyone else here, I’ve told people that limiting magazines to 15 or 10 or whatever rounds is meaningless because people can just get more of the smaller magazines. At least a couple of people I’ve told this have expressed surprise that you can get more magazines than what came with the gun. I even had one person question wether or not the mags were ‘matched’ to the gun they came with. Yeah, kinda like my tires are ‘matched’ to my truck.

I have no doubt that when they discover that ammo can be purchased by the case/pallet/truckload that they will try to limit that and, probably try to introduce caps on possession. All in the name of public safety of course.

I’m a little bit surprised that there has not been more of a push to make magazines themselves serialized and controlled parts in more jurisdictions. I know it is stupid but that has never stopped the gun-grabbers before.

Every time I hear “you don’t need more than 10 rounds” I think, Wow, they must be a good shot. I know I’d need more than that to stop a big guy, with my hand shaking, two hands shaking. Two knees shaking.

If it costs $35 for a process fee on a $20 box of ammo, they’ll force folks to buy 1000 round cases just to amortize those fees. I think California legislators are gonna be shocked to see how much ammo folks really go through. These filthy leftists think having 100 rounds is a stockpile. California has millions of gun owners and competitive shooters and easily go through 100 million rounds each year. Folks should have 10,000 rounds on hand for every caliber they own. I wonder how California’s Department of Justice is going to react when they see transfers of cases and not boxes?

The big boys go through a lot of ammo, but I bet most handload. 2005 area I took some classes including handloading from the Tompkins-Gallagher clan at Camp Perry, Tompkins reloaded 10,000 rounds at the beginning of each year, for each of the 4 national competitors he had in his family (Himself, wife Nancy, and her 2 daughters). I could not even imagine that, but he said it was essentially a few days of preparations and then turning on the machines. Jesus, where do you even put 40,000 rounds of high powered rifle ammo?

There are some ammo options: shoot less, switch to shooting reloads instead of factory ammo, start ammo reloading yourself, switch rifle shooting from .223/5.56 to PCC or 22LR, do more air gun shooting, and if you haven’t already, start stocking up like a MFer (bulk buy a pallet with fam and friends). Did I miss anything?
I’ve been stocking up the past few years and will be putting my Glock project on hold to keep stocking up on 9mm, 5.56 and .22LR till JUL19.

The habit of swinging by a sporting store on the way to a hunt or range day for ammo will likely go away if it hasn’t already… And grabbing an extra box at the range when you run out won’t be an option.

This will be of biggest impact to new, poor, or casual shooters who can’t “stack it deep.” I was a new shooter with one pistol before Obama, and I usually only had a box or two of ammo at home, and would just buy a box at the range. As my gun interest grew I started buying online which meant getting enough to justify the shipping expense with the savings, and after seeing the shortages decided one needs to keep a stash of what they need to make it through political ups and downs. But I still know people who load up on the way to shoot.

This is a revenue grab like the text tax attempt was. it will be largely transparent to gun owners after initial bureaucratic pain to get the card, but the main feature is the added tax revenue for renewals (annual?) on an unpopular demographic.

California? Look into the Balkanization of the United States. It’s getting more traction. People fleeing the blue states because of taxes, politics, etc. I have a friend that moved here after New York passed even more draconian firearms restrictions. He said, “That’s enough!” Brought he and his wife’s six figure incomes and seven figure bank accounts with them. Hit them in the wallet. That’s where it hurts them most.

Not Balkanization but Democratization. The more expensive blue states like California become, the more it pushes residents into cheaper areas; this happened with Oregon and Colorado and is happening with Nevada and Arizona who were once solid red states. At the current rate of Californians moving to Austin and Dallas, Texas may be blue in 10-15 years.

Remember the Dem’s in the Blue states are moving to Red states, too. Northwest Indiana had lots of Hillary signs. They vote to raise taxes, then move to a border state. Enjoying the low property taxes and just a little farther to commute to work.

The costs to move are far greater than the cost of the Ryder truck.
Let’s say you and your wife both have jobs you like, your kids like their schools (so do you!), and their friends.
You like your house and neighborhood, and the friends you have there.
Your extended family lives close by.
Is it as easy as you seem to think to move to a place where you have to buy a new house, move into a new neighborhood, uproot your kids and plop them down into a new school with no friends? Lose close contact with your family? Get new jobs?
No. No it’s not.

And that is why, if it comes to a civil war, most people with side with being “comfortable” and not actively involved.

We moved out of the People’s Republic of Commiefornia several years ago. Was it easy? No. Was it hard? not really. It wasn’t a sudden decision, we had wanted out for years, just had to find the right job in the right location. If you really want something, you have to work to make it happen. Most people won’t work that hard for the “political beliefs”. Easier to whine and complain than make a change.

Because most of our families live here, we have stable jobs, we enjoy the CA outdoors (hiking, camping, surfing, snowboarding, deep sea fishing, scuba, etc.). POTG are a minority here, but we’ll keep finding ways to adapt to these unconstitutional CA laws, we will keep buying guns & ammo and teach our youth to shoot straight and safe.

Because I love the outdoors lifestyle (there is no surf in Oklahoma), the area is safe with lots of parks and bike trails for kids, and the public schools in my town are great (some of the highest SAT scores in the country).
Most importantly, because I bought my house when it was cheap and I make the high wages that go with a high standard of living while paying a mortgage that is less than rent in many cheap states. It doesn’t make financial sense to move unless I change careers since the other states with demand for my industry are Massachusetts and NJ/NY.

Note how they talk about gun enthusiasts. It’s as though they’re trying to demarcate two sections of the population. US vs them. It’s only going to affect those gun nuts. When in fact the text should read free people in California will have to face greater obstacles. All people in California.

The main goal is to make owning a firearm and or using one such a pain in the butt and a long agonizing costly experience that nobody will want to do it and even the most enthusiastic will rarely ever take theirs out of the safe.

This way you get to keep your right but they won’t have to see you exercising it.

The hottest topics on CalGuns these days are pistol caliber lever action rifles and revolvers. Alot of folks have pretty much already quit hassling with “assault rifles” because you’re a [email protected]#$ing felon (or will be soon enough) pretty much no matter what you do.

Funny you mentioned that. A Henry and S&W revolver are on my gun wish list. First, I just need to start stocking up on .357/.44 Mag. I am tired of shooting my Tavor and Hipoint Carbine because of the grip fins; mag changes are slow, run n’ gun is no longer safe, shooting is no fun.

Y’all in CA, and perhaps others in the future, need to understand you have two (2) options. Surrender, or be an outlaw. Consider carefully what it means for either option, and make your irrevocable decision accordingly. Both require significant sacrifice.

Well, the state of NJ just made close to one million people outlaws. Not one over 10 round magazine was turned in and my LGS said nobody has come to him to do mag limiter work and he’s a pro at it. As for me, if they ever decide to do a door-to-door search, I’ll just send them to my nephew in Va. for pick-up during my Fl/TX move (haven’t decided yet which).

I believe NY tried the same thing and then quietly gave up upon realizing that they had created an impossible law; the federal system can’t be used for ammunition and the state can’t just make it’s own easily.

HEY PEOPLE, THIS IS FAKE NEWS!!!!
The background check for the ammo law is an instant background check against a California list of prohibited persons. The cost is $1 for anyone who has at least ONE firearm registered with the state (and you can buy any ammo in any amount, irrespective of the caliber of the firearm registered).. Out of state buyers have to pay $19 for the privilege of buying ammo. THERE IS NO WAITING PERIOD.

Second, the background check fee (unless they raised it when I wasn’t looking) is only $25, and yes it involves a 10 day wait.

If a background check is to be required, it costs money to perform. California runs not just a NICS check but a check of its own databases. About 20%, according to the state, go through in minutes, most in 2- days, and the rest take the full ten days allowed by law. There are real people doing the searches, not just machines. So yeah, it costs; and of the $25, $5 goes to the FFL to process the state required paper work. It should actually cost less–the system was running a surplus–so the Legislature snagged the excess for funding of violence reduction laws and confiscation of firearms from prohibited persons. but that is a whole ‘nother ball o’ wax.

Then CA needs to upgrade their database to run on a computer that was build sometime since the turn of the century. VA does the while “check NICS and out own database” thing, and the longest I have seen it take is two hours for someone with a very common name- normally, its less than 30 min.

Heh heh heh, so “they’ve” caught on, can’t stop the gunz but we can stop the gun food. Sadly California seems to be the nation’s trend setters. I rember a Marine telling me while discussing firearms. ” I only need one bullet and a rifle, then I will take your stuff.”

California gun owners should be reloading a lot by now. I sold a lot of reloading equipment a few years ago on eBay and all the winners were .CA subjects. Load up on powder, primers and heads before they outlaw reloading completely.

Fron only a financial perspective, reloading in mass quantities pans out if you are a competitive shooter or shooting instructor. But I only shoot about $500 worth of ammo per year. For me, a progressive reloading press for 9mm and 5.56 and materials would pay itself off in 2-3 years compared to current ammo prices. I’m guessing most folks will wait to see just how bad things will get before considering getting into reloading.

…It’s coming…DON’T worry…Once everything is loaded down with big government bureaucracy, tax, and cost…no one will be interested in exercising any rights anymore…big Goverment legislating everything away, one right at a time…And globalism marchs on…To the NWO…. Until my fellow Americans stand THEIR ground!!!

That box of 50 rounds of .22LR is going to catch some dust in CA after July 2019. Ammo will be like Mexican cigarettes – mainly delivered in the trunks of cars by folks coming back from that out-of-state vacation. Seriously, this is going to make a whole bunch of gun owners into law breakers.

Given that the legislative acts of the California Atate Legislature continue to trample on the Constitutional Rights of Americans, I wonder as to the following. When will The U.S. Supreme Court act to provide badly needed redress?