Lifetime is Far Too Expensive on the Mini

And making the "just don't buy it" excuse someone else made does not negate the slimy feel of this.

Click to expand...

The only thing I find slightly slimy with the Roamios/Minis is the $200 price difference between the Roamio Plus and the Roamio Pro.

The only difference between those boxes is the hard drive. Using consumer prices (amazon.com), the cost difference between those drives is about $50. I'd guess that difference is even less for TiVo. Anyhow, TiVo's taking that $50 price difference and charging $200 extra for it.

Also FWIW there are several Roamio models. For the $199 model, the cost of the $399 Lifetime is 2x the cost of the box. With the Mini, Lifetime costs 1.5x the cost of the box. IIRC, before the Roamios came out, TiVo was selling Premiers for $149, which made the Lifetime cost 2.67x more than the box! It's all relative to the cost of the box (and apparently you're buying the macdaddy box).

Either way, a slimy feeling is a slimy feeling. Hopefully in the end, you'll end up loving your new setup, and the sliminess goes away.

At this point, nobody is forcing anyone to buy anything. Everything you own still works. This is the price of technology. I'm more pissed at Apple when they encouraged me to upgrade my iPhone 3Gs to the next iOS and it started to act like a brick. When I tried to revert to the prior OS, it wouldn't let me. The only way for me to get my iPhone working was to buy a new one.

TiVo on the other hand leaves your current box alone. My Series 1 worked perfectly till the day I took it out of service last week. (And not to gloat, but what the hell, the $200 lifetime covered me for close to 14 years, and is now covering me on my new Roamio.) The Series 3, that I was running with a $6.95 msd, I lifetimed that for $100. I have no complaints with TiVo at all. My trick was simple, I didn't buy every new box that came out. I waited patiently till I saw the right boxes to purchase, and the right lifetimes to purchase. YMMV

The only thing I find slightly slimy with the Roamios/Minis is the $200 price difference between the Roamio Plus and the Roamio Pro.

The only difference between those boxes is the hard drive. Using consumer prices (amazon.com), the cost difference between those drives is about $50. I'd guess that difference is even less for TiVo. Anyhow, TiVo's taking that $50 price difference and charging $200 extra for it.

Click to expand...

This is common practice in the tech industry. Apple charges $100 more for a 32GB iPad vs a 16GB. You can buy a 16GB SD card for $11 on Amazon, so how much do you think Apple pays for those surface mount chips? Dell does the same thing with memory upgrades charging 3-4x what the RAM costs on Amazon or Newegg.

This is common practice in the tech industry. Apple charges $100 more for a 32GB iPad vs a 16GB. You can buy a 16GB SD card for $11 on Amazon, so how much do you think Apple pays for those surface mount chips? Dell does the same thing with memory upgrades charging 3-4x what the RAM costs on Amazon or Newegg.

Click to expand...

Wasn't the difference in price between the TiVo Premiere (1TB) and Premiere XL (2TB) $149?

So what's the big deal ??? Nobody is putting a gun to the guy's head to buy anything. If he doesn't like the terms ...... vote with the wallet and don't buy .... really simple ...

Click to expand...

Absolutely. But we'd like the OP (original poster) to understand what TiVo is doing, so he can make his decision based on the facts.

The fact is that the Mini is a $250 list price device that TiVo has, quite artificially, split into a $100 hardware price and a $150 lifetime price. The buyer can substitute a monthly payment for the $150 lifetime price, if the buyer so chooses (an extra option for the buyer, almost always good.)

It sounds like the OP objects to the particular split and would be happier if, say, he had to pay $150 up front for hardware and only $100 in lifetime. That would make the lifetime not "far too expensive". Some people would prefer that and some people wouldn't. That doesn't really seem to be a good reason for being upset, which is why people have responded, IMO.

It sounds like the OP has an additional complaint of not really realizing the full $250 price of the Mini. That's a much more legitimate complaint, despite the fact that TiVo is pretty careful about always including the monthly service fee in its advertising. But I don't view it as a scam, any more than I view any cell phone advertisement or car lease commercial as scams - they're all the same as long as it is disclosed up front. However, I can understand the OP being upset about that, and I agree that it's up to him whether it's worth it or not.

Personally I think this is the best TiVo deal since I paid $200 for lifetime for my Series 1 14 years ago, which just got transferred over to my Roamio Plus.

Click to expand...

How did you do this? If I can do that, I'll get a RP and transfer my Tivo Premiere lifetime to a Plus (-$399 total), sell my PXL + lifetime (+$375ish), sell my Premiere (now w/out lifetime, +$60) and buy a Mini w/lifetime (-$250).

That would put me at about -$215 but would save me $120 a year in second outlet charges, and net me two extra tuners.

How did you do this? If I can do that, I'll get a RP and transfer my Tivo Premiere lifetime to a Plus (-$399 total), sell my PXL + lifetime (+$375ish), sell my Premiere (now w/out lifetime, +$60) and buy a Mini w/lifetime (-$250).

That would put me at about -$215 but would save me $120 a year in second outlet charges, and net me two extra tuners.

Click to expand...

You can't do it, because it doesn't exist for your Premiere.

There was a grand-fathered one time transfer of Lifetime for owners of Series 1 TiVos which allows them to move the Lifetime service to another TiVo, one time, then it is "used" and they have to pay for future lifetime service on any other TiVos they acquire.

TiVo service is expensive. The cost of my Roamio Plus as well as two Minis, all with Lifetime membership is MSRP $1300.... even if I paid $40 monthly for DVR rentals from my cable company it would take over two years to break even on the cost (not to mention risk of a TiVo unit breaking outside of warranty, etc).

But here's the thing.... TiVo is WORTH IT to me. It's like driving a German car when a Chevy gets you there too.

For me, even though I don't watch a ton of TV, I get a helluva lot more satisfaction out of watching TV on a TiVo compared to some crappy Scientific Atlanta DVR.

It sounds like many here feel the same way, but seem to balk at the price... kind of like people who felt insulted that Apple had the nerve to sell the original iPhone at $599 without a contract. They were paying the same price more or less for other phones at the time, but something about that lump sump up front payment was "offensive".

It is not like this in all cultures. In Europe it is very common to pay cash for things, and most phones are purchased un-subsidized. Probably results in Europeans, on average, taking better care of their crap than Americans.

TiVo service is expensive. The cost of my Roamio Plus as well as two Minis, all with Lifetime membership is MSRP $1300.... even if I paid $40 monthly for DVR rentals from my cable company it would take over two years to break even on the cost (not to mention risk of a TiVo unit breaking outside of warranty, etc).

Click to expand...

You have to remember that TiVo's also retain value. If you pay your cable company $40/mo for 33 months and then walk away you will have paid $1320 and have nothing to show for it. If you do the same with a TiVo it will likely be worth $500+ at the end of those 33 months, probably more. So if you sell it then it really only cost you $25/mo. And even if you paid monthly and threw the hardware in the trash at 33 months it's still comparable to the cable company prices and you get a better product. ($45/mo vs $40/mo)

Once you get over the initial outlay TiVo is not that expensive. Definitely not BMW vs Chevy expensive.

No argument Dan, but I guess you could say my point is there is quite the mental hurdle for people to overcome with the Lifetime option, which long term, makes the most sense.

I at one point had two TiVos and wanted a 3rd for a workout room, but could not justify the $500+ outlay (plus cablecard fees) for a box that I would use 2-3 hours every week (I use my Boxee in the workout room more than a TiVo).... even though I could afford it.

The Mini, by just being an extension of another TiVo makes the multi room approach much more palatable to me, even with the higher price.

I've paid monthly on a ton of TiVos over the years. Always seemed practical at the time, but when I look back I regret it. For my last 3 TiVos I bought lifetime without hesitation. It may hurt now, but long term it's a much better deal.

The point here is that the fee seems outrageous, even to someone who has 3 TivoHDs and a Premiere with Lifetime. I clearly decided it was still worthwhile, but it is still a lot of money.

Click to expand...

I don't get it. Tivo HDs with lifetime make about $250 on eBay, so these are a free swap for the Minis. With what you can make selling the Premiere, you are looking at a total cost of maybe $500 to upgrade your system. And you will save on three sets of cablecard fees so it will pay for itself in a couple years. Sounds like a bargain to me.

I don't get it. Tivo HDs with lifetime make about $250 on eBay, so these are a free swap for the Minis. With what you can make selling the Premiere, you are looking at a total cost of maybe $500 to upgrade your system. And you will save on three sets of cablecard fees so it will pay for itself in a couple years. Sounds like a bargain to me.

Click to expand...

You are right, it is a bargain for all the new capabilities, better speed, reduced long-term charges for cable-cards, etc.....but he seems to have a hard time with that up front outlay. Everyone's finances are different. For me personally, if I can't pay for things cash via "petty cash" then they are harder to justify. Fortunately I had enough petty cash lying around to finance my Roamio upgrade.

You are right, it is a bargain for all the new capabilities, better speed, reduced long-term charges for cable-cards, etc.....but he seems to have a hard time with that up front outlay. Everyone's finances are different. For me personally, if I can't pay for things cash via "petty cash" then they are harder to justify. Fortunately I had enough petty cash lying around to finance my Roamio upgrade.

Click to expand...

I was mentally expecting the upgrade to the Roamio to be close to break even, but that got wiped out with my unaccounted cost for the whole Mini package.

It seems like paying a lifetime fee for a remote controller rather than a DVR to me though. It isn't, but that is what it feels like.

I think the upgrade cost me almost 2K overall. I will probably recoup about $1K of that. Though I have to decide if I go the Ebay or Craig's List route. I really don't want whoever coming into the house to view the system, but that is a reasonable request if they are giving me cash for it.

I am not happy that the Mini displays worse on my old Emerson pre-HDTV TV as well. I have some cables from Amazon coming in tomorrow or Saturday that may help, but the early results with cables I had collected over the years were not good. I may have to buy a new HDTV for that room as well.

I will note again that Tivo didn't hide the cost, it just didn't seem as obvious and had no MRD.