V8 Supercars - 2013 Season

Reading the specialist press in recent days and have read that Dave Richards has sold out of FPR to Rod Nash and Rusty French and the Stone bros have sold out to Erebus Motorsport. There has been a few other 'franchise' sales and leasing too.

My thoughts are these new manufacturers will turn the circus into a bigger circus, more staged racing and the new manufacturers, especially Mercedes will have to be 'allowed' to win.

The previous rules were 'Operation Blueprint' that effectivly made all the cars the same, and made all the Commodores into Fords!! With double wishbone front suspension, Ford deckheighted blocks [on Chevs], canted valve heads etc as well as mandated gearbox and diff ratios for each track.
That will be impossible with a quad cam engines like to be used in Nissan and Benz.

So will the new cars be a success or a failure. I think Richards and the Stones have been smart getting out, reputedly a franchise alone is worth 6M plus those succesfull team operations would have avery good resale.

On the Plus side they are not it seems going to Yas Marina to race in front of friends and a few relatives as they have done before. Though that may upset Mercedes as that would be a good market for them. While I am sure the US race will pull some paying spectators I doubt the place will be a third full. As it seems most Aussie tracks are these days. Reportedly [by the locals] the Historics at PI pulled a bigger crowd than the V8s. It took me an hour to get off the island at the historics.

The overseas experience has been underwhelming except for NZ [ and they are back at Puke this year] which is closely linked to Oz anyway

The cars have been way to easy to drive the last few years since they took away the H shift and this year's Car of the Future will be easier still. You just have to look at old youtube clips of the V8s in the early-mid 90s to see what used to make them great to watch.

The cars have been way to easy to drive the last few years since they took away the H shift and this year's Car of the Future will be easier still. You just have to look at old youtube clips of the V8s in the early-mid 90s to see what used to make them great to watch.

Compared with a lot of categorys they are easy to drive, just big fat wallowing underpowered cars. BUT the level of competition, eg 26 cars sometimes seperated by less than a second is what makes them sort of interesting.

Erebus motorsports has, they have simply chosen to use a Merc body panel configuration.

Yeah,even the Journo's have trouble with that fact but at least Merc. Aust. has stopped saying every few days its got nothing to do with them.MPO is the series has been in decline esp. the TV ratings,when a umpteenth repeat of a old Movie outrates "live" coverage of the racing you know there is a problem.Nissan-Merc. will invigorate at least in the short term and who knows where it may lead in a few years as Ford winds down Oz. production.

MPO is the series has been in decline esp. the TV ratings,when a umpteenth repeat of a old Movie outrates "live" coverage of the racing you know there is a problem.

That's another thing. I find 3 long bloody races over a weekend to be too much. It should be one 300km race on a Sunday, like they did successfully in the early noughties. Many can't be bothered dedicating a whole weekend to just racing, unless its Bathurst. And if an audience can't follow the sport, cars, drivers in full then they start to lose interest over the season.

Compared with a lot of categorys they are easy to drive, just big fat wallowing underpowered cars. BUT the level of competition, eg 26 cars sometimes seperated by less than a second is what makes them sort of interesting.

God you talk some shit...

Since when has 650hp been under powered?? The only things that will be underpowered will be the Nissian and Merc donks I reckon ;-)1355kg is not that overweight for touring cars, what do the gt3 cars come in at 1300kg??Locked diff make the cars just wonderful in the corners as well..From the people I know who have driven and owned cars from a variety of teams, none have commented on how "easy" they are to drive around in anger..

Re the owners selling, settle down chicken little... I reckon Richards needed the cash moreso than the v8 series being in trouble and with the Stones, geez after 20 odd years in the game I think they deserve to be able to sell up and move with their lives

I imagine quite a lot of people would be saying F1 cars are easy to drive if they lowered the engine power to 307hp.

How about we at least use tin tops as a comparison and from all reports the gt3 are a lot more refined in their driving than something that was designed in 1994 and not much has really change till this year pretty much..

It's confirmed to 2016 at least with a 2014 update that can keep it in the market to 2018 if need be before further investment. The media want to call it dead because Ford won't tell them their post 2016 plans whilst Holden will, which mind you is also possibly not including Commodore but the media don't want to report on that.

Bringing it back more to the original point, V8 Supercars would be more concerned with Ford ending their sponsorship agreements which could or could not continue even if they're locally producing Mondeo's in 2017, which still wouldn't be a prerequisite for them racing anymore.

Must of been why he was running seconds slower at the back Not a swipe at him as he was driving some of the worst equipment on the track at the time.. Also most of his running would of been on the soft tyre, not the control tyre.

It's confirmed to 2016 at least with a 2014 update that can keep it in the market to 2018 if need be before further investment. The media want to call it dead because Ford won't tell them their post 2016 plans whilst Holden will, which mind you is also possibly not including Commodore but the media don't want to report on that.

Bringing it back more to the original point, V8 Supercars would be more concerned with Ford ending their sponsorship agreements which could or could not continue even if they're locally producing Mondeo's in 2017, which still wouldn't be a prerequisite for them racing anymore.

If Ford had ANY BRAINS at all the Falcon would go the Volvo XC70/Audi Allroad mould. Up off the ground a little but not SUV big, make it a 5 door like all cars should be (sedans are ****ing useless) and the soccer mums will flock to it.

Must of been why he was running seconds slower at the back Not a swipe at him as he was driving some of the worst equipment on the track at the time.. Also most of his running would of been on the soft tyre, not the control tyre.

Well, he ran a fair bit faster down at the Gold Coast first time around

Bringing it back more to the original point, V8 Supercars would be more concerned with Ford ending their sponsorship agreements which could or could not continue even if they're locally producing Mondeo's in 2017, which still wouldn't be a prerequisite for them racing anymore.

Yeah,as i said who knows where we will be in 5 years time,my Niece is a Journo and the Motoring scribe on her paper thinks its 90% sure the Falcons replacement will come from Thailand and Ford is slowly winding down local production now,but you never know,when the Libs. get back in they may come up with a new car industry package to keep Ford & Holden manufacturing here.

Well, he ran a fair bit faster down at the Gold Coast first time around

Yes when he drove one of the best chassis in the field (FPR) he did all right, until he kept on the gas in turn 1 when he spun and did a loop into the rest of the pack The Kelly racing chassis he used in his latest outings was one of the oldest out there (old Perkins chassis circa 08)

Those stats are meaningless as GT3 is a BoP class.

Meh they all point to the v8SC not being underpowered which was my only point, nothing more, nothing less... It is not like v8SC don't have any restrictions on them as well..

Since when has 650hp been under powered?? The only things that will be underpowered will be the Nissian and Merc donks I reckon ;-)1355kg is not that overweight for touring cars, what do the gt3 cars come in at 1300kg??Locked diff make the cars just wonderful in the corners as well..From the people I know who have driven and owned cars from a variety of teams, none have commented on how "easy" they are to drive around in anger..

Re the owners selling, settle down chicken little... I reckon Richards needed the cash moreso than the v8 series being in trouble and with the Stones, geez after 20 odd years in the game I think they deserve to be able to sell up and move with their lives

650HP? from the media releases maybe, more like high 500s with about 420 foot lbs.They are 10-1 compression 5 litres, in a 1400 kilo car. I was around the scene with those cars 10+ years ago and compared with a lot of categorys they are slow. Get out of 4th gear and theyy stop, at least in comparison to a Sports Sedan.Or a big sporty, Again HP numbers do not mean a huge amount, driveability which is torque and HP mean more. While they handle reasonably well and stop very well they are not really that quick for the cubic dollars invested. The Porkers with about 300hp are occasionally faster on some tracks.And in comparison they are a modified street car.

If Ford had ANY BRAINS at all the Falcon would go the Volvo XC70/Audi Allroad mould. Up off the ground a little but not SUV big, make it a 5 door like all cars should be (sedans are ****ing useless) and the soccer mums will flock to it.

Has been advailable for near 10 years. It is called the Ford Territory, comes in 2 and AWD versions. Based on a Falcon and has been a good seller. And it is based on a rear drive car, not a FWD. Though has been a bit expensive for the Rep market who mostly seem to be using Commodore Wagons.

If Ford had ANY BRAINS at all the Falcon would go the Volvo XC70/Audi Allroad mould. Up off the ground a little but not SUV big, make it a 5 door like all cars should be (sedans are ****ing useless) and the soccer mums will flock to it.

Has been advailable for near 10 years. It is called the Ford Territory, comes in 2 and AWD versions. Based on a Falcon and has been a good seller. And it is based on a rear drive car, not a FWD. Though has been a bit expensive for the Rep market who mostly seem to be using Commodore Wagons.

Except for the "not SUV big" part, the Territory is a monster.

Actually Holden tried it a few years back, around the same time as the Territory and it got spanked by the Ford. What was it called ... Adventra or something? Looked like a smashed crab thoughEdit: http://www.redbook.c...s...dx=0&eapi=2Was right about the name and the looks

650HP? from the media releases maybe, more like high 500s with about 420 foot lbs.They are 10-1 compression 5 litres, in a 1400 kilo car. I was around the scene with those cars 10+ years ago and compared with a lot of categorys they are slow. Get out of 4th gear and theyy stop, at least in comparison to a Sports Sedan.Or a big sporty, Again HP numbers do not mean a huge amount, driveability which is torque and HP mean more. While they handle reasonably well and stop very well they are not really that quick for the cubic dollars invested. The Porkers with about 300hp are occasionally faster on some tracks.And in comparison they are a modified street car.

I am pretty sure I read an article on JV and his first V8Supercar experience (after the 2010 GC600) and he said something like they had too much grip for the power available, compared to NASCAR/Nationwide for example.

I've tried to find the article but haven't had any luck so far - thought I had read it on Autosport...

I am pretty sure I read an article on JV and his first V8Supercar experience (after the 2010 GC600) and he said something like they had too much grip for the power available, compared to NASCAR/Nationwide for example.

I've tried to find the article but haven't had any luck so far - thought I had read it on Autosport...

I'd be keen to see another 100HP, i am all for nasty cars but bathurst could mean they get a little neutered or accidents are gonna get silly big. That's not really the issue though, for all the critics the series is massive compared to the way it was before Cochrane took over, sure there was more variety but it was a small time series.

The biggest issue is that Ford is dead, Holden won the war. it's the hate that's missing because you can't hate on a defeated opponent. They need to either focus on the drivers or make Nismo out to be the bad guy again to create some hate on.

Still, 30 of these things barreling into Griffins bend on october 5th or whatever is still the best sporting site of the year.

Has been advailable for near 10 years. It is called the Ford Territory, comes in 2 and AWD versions. Based on a Falcon and has been a good seller. And it is based on a rear drive car, not a FWD. Though has been a bit expensive for the Rep market who mostly seem to be using Commodore Wagons.

Not even close. i'm talking a cheaper Subaru outback, just make it look good like the Volvo XC70. Scared white people love their cars off the ground a little.

Actually Holden tried it a few years back, around the same time as the Territory and it got spanked by the Ford. What was it called ... Adventra or something? Looked like a smashed crab thoughEdit: http://www.redbook.c...s...dx=0&eapi=2Was right about the name and the looks

A monster? It is a Falcon wagon. A bit bigger than the dreaded Ovlov but not much. The Adventurer was a VZ wagon converted to AWD, there was also a Monaro version. People who own them love them. The Territory is a better vehicle though a 6 litre Adventurer is quicker!On the upgrade? to VE the AWDs and the Monaro were dropped, and the wagon became a styling exercise with considerably less useable room with its silly sloping back.

And put a nationwide engine in the same chassis and compare, yet alone a Nascar engine. HP numbers often mean nothing,, and as I have said before it depends on how much HP is on the dyno before they start.I have had my current car on two chassis dynos. One conservative and one kiddy car. The kiddy car dyno gave my about 30hp, and this is the same dyno that gets 620HP from an RB30 Nissan turbo engine. But I know on the track which car is faster,, my 440hp [or 470] engine!A 360 Sprintcar engine has around 600HP from a normally 358ci engine with at least 13-1 on methanol. Far bigger cams, heads that flow more power yet the same numbers. And a good 360 will play with a 410 [800+hp] on the tighter tracks. And they are an iron block compared with an alloy so handling is compromised.And from what I am told the Mercedes is an alloy engine, the Nissan? So in theory the new guys have the advantages. Making the previous blueprint totally unworkable.

You do know different race series all have different rules (v8sc has min block/component weights, 7500rpm limit, spec motor location and so on) so I have no idea why your waffling on about Sprintcars and putting Nationwide engines in v8sc none of that means dick to me.. The simple fact is that the current v8 engines are some of the most efficient 5ls out there making 125-130hp/L and from what i'm told Nissian are down on power compared to the ford/holden v8s so far and it ain't going to be easy to match the current v8 engines for either merc/nissian even with 4 valves and and alloy block..

Also I'm pretty sure that engine dyno above is a lot more accurate than some car dyno you used ;)

It's confirmed to 2016 at least with a 2014 update that can keep it in the market to 2018 if need be before further investment. The media want to call it dead because Ford won't tell them their post 2016 plans whilst Holden will, which mind you is also possibly not including Commodore but the media don't want to report on that.

Bringing it back more to the original point, V8 Supercars would be more concerned with Ford ending their sponsorship agreements which could or could not continue even if they're locally producing Mondeo's in 2017, which still wouldn't be a prerequisite for them racing anymore.

Don't blame the media, Falcon sales have been relatively poor recently and when was the last time a Falcon ad was shown on tv? Lately it's been about models but not the Falcon.

You do know different race series all have different rules (v8sc has min block/component weights, 7500rpm limit, spec motor location and so on) so I have no idea why your waffling on about Sprintcars and putting Nationwide engines in v8sc none of that means dick to me.. The simple fact is that the current v8 engines are some of the most efficient 5ls out there making 125-130hp/L and from what i'm told Nissian are down on power compared to the ford/holden v8s so far and it ain't going to be easy to match the current v8 engines for either merc/nissian even with 4 valves and and alloy block..

If Ford had ANY BRAINS at all the Falcon would go the Volvo XC70/Audi Allroad mould. Up off the ground a little but not SUV big, make it a 5 door like all cars should be (sedans are ****ing useless) and the soccer mums will flock to it.

Exactly like a Territory or Holden Adventra?

LBH the Territories time has passed unfortunately. Somehow they keep selling the very similar Toyota Kluger (international name "Highlander" for overseas folks ), but that's imported I think.

Which ever cars Ford make and design in Australia, the USA has to give the go-ahead for left hand drive production. A locally designed stretched Taurus carrying the "Fairlane" badge with a turbocharged V6 (let's say 360 kW in FPV spec ) and AWD wouldn't be such a bad car.

How can you compare those two cars??? THey are not even close, the Territory is a full blown SUV, the Adventura is similar to the previous generation Outback. Yeah like the Adventra but something that doesn't look so shit.

My understanding is the Nissan engine is "better" and will be restricted.Same RPM and compression ratio but with quad cams. Can't see how it would be less powerful.

Also, aren't they are taking away the fuel stops so fans don't complain about better fuel economy of Nissan and Mercedes? But come Bathurst time they should be able to use that advantage to good effect if Ricko can keep it on the road.

The Adventra is pretty much the Passat Alltrack type thing you were talking about, just with horrible fuel economy.Of course no Subaru or Volkswagen wagon comes with a V8

But it just wasn't a hit at all really, way too thirsty? I can't see how they would do better now, as in that soccer Mum/Dad* "segment" a Holden or Ford badge is a disadvantage IMO. Unfortunately the cheaper cars from the American manufacturers have probably created a reputation for not being as well "screwed together" as a Japanese car (be it a South African Focus with dodgy trim or a Korean "Viva" with some other problem), and guess some off that must rub off on the Australian models too.... hence another sale to Subaru or Volvo or even Mazda etc.

To be fair, the relative success of Mazda in Australia (and lack thereof of Honda) is an oddity too. Apparently in other markets Mazdas are seen as a bit cheap, noisy and not as reliable as other Japanese cars, but somehow us Aussies are happy to over look that . So much marketing involved in selling cars.

My understanding is the Nissan engine is "better" and will be restricted.Same RPM and compression ratio but with quad cams. Can't see how it would be less powerful.

Also, aren't they are taking away the fuel stops so fans don't complain about better fuel economy of Nissan and Mercedes? But come Bathurst time they should be able to use that advantage to good effect if Ricko can keep it on the road.

in theory yes it is better but so far word has said it is not (a few months back Nissan was ~80hp down if the whispers were true) the ford/holden engines did not get to where they are overnight and have had many many years of development in them. I think some of you need to show the current motors in the v8s a bit more respect for what they are, just look at what happened when prodrive tried to build them for FPR years ago (spoiler they gave up pretty quickly)

And yes fuel stops are being taken away from some of the sprint events (shorter races but more of them)

There was the one about the Ecoboost falcon, where the guy says something like "mother nature gives me a hug everytime I start this car"Man that made me want to kick him through the tv.

Frankly, I think 'badge snobbery' is a big issue for Holden/Ford to overcome, and especially for Ford with the Falcon. They're seen as taxis for good reason - every taxi in Melbourne for instance, seems to be a Falcon. And not many people want to drive taxis...