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Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Roethlisberger signed his deal after the 2007 season (his 4th year in the league) where he posted a 104.1 QB rating (2nd in league to Brady's 117.2), 32 TDs (3rd in league), only 11 Ints, with a YPA of 7.81 (4th in league). His total yardage was down (ranked 14th) but only because of the low number of attempts (see YPA). And of course he had the ring. As for the SuperBowl, he had a bad game, but the other three playoff wins that year he did great to spectacular. Wilcard game: rating of 138.5; Divisional: 95.3; Conference: 124.9; SB: 48.7. And that was only his 2nd year in the league. Joe in his second year had a QB rating of 10.0 in a playoff game for comparison sake.

Even Vick, whose deal was insane in an AP kind of way, was coming off of a 100.2 QB rating (4th in the league), Pro Bowl year. If the Eagles pretended those kind of years were going to keep coming then the price doesn't seem strange. Of course, it seems foolish to assume such a thing, but it happens (see Titans and CJ).

To argue in favor of Joe getting these numbers or above, one is best served by sticking to Joe's winning ways, intangibles, and league inflation. Trying to knock these other guys, especially Rivers and Ben, in terms of their standing or bargaining power in the year they made their deals is a futile effort, imo. Only Eli had a less than great year in the year preceding his big deal, and it was still better than Joe's 2011, and he had a SB MVP under his belt and his trajectory was great (he came into negotiations having improved greatly that year and with dubious weapons due to Burress injury/shooting incident).

My only hope is that Joe and his agent don't get crazy and make this confrontational. I don't think they will, but you never know these days. I also am curious to see how the Brees negotiations turn out; they are apparently ugly at the moment.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by Haloti92

Roethlisberger signed his deal after the 2007 season (his 4th year in the league) where he posted a 104.1 QB rating (2nd in league to Brady's 117.2), 32 TDs (3rd in league), only 11 Ints, with a YPA of 7.81 (4th in league). His total yardage was down (ranked 14th) but only because of the low number of attempts (see YPA). And of course he had the ring. As for the SuperBowl, he had a bad game, but the other three playoff wins that year he did great to spectacular. Wilcard game: rating of 138.5; Divisional: 95.3; Conference: 124.9; SB: 48.7. And that was only his 2nd year in the league. Joe in his second year had a QB rating of 10.0 in a playoff game for comparison sake.

Even Vick, whose deal was insane in an AP kind of way, was coming off of a 100.2 QB rating (4th in the league), Pro Bowl year. If the Eagles pretended those kind of years were going to keep coming then the price doesn't seem strange. Of course, it seems foolish to assume such a thing, but it happens (see Titans and CJ).

To argue in favor of Joe getting these numbers or above, one is best served by sticking to Joe's winning ways, intangibles, and league inflation. Trying to knock these other guys, especially Rivers and Ben, in terms of their standing or bargaining power in the year they made their deals is a futile effort, imo. Only Eli had a less than great year in the year preceding his big deal, and it was still better than Joe's 2011, and he had a SB MVP under his belt and his trajectory was great (he came into negotiations having improved greatly that year and with dubious weapons due to Burress injury/shooting incident).

My only hope is that Joe and his agent don't get crazy and make this confrontational. I don't think they will, but you never know these days. I also am curious to see how the Brees negotiations turn out; they are apparently ugly at the moment.

Agreed that you can't take shots at some other qbs just to justify Flacco's contract. Ben is probably underpaid and the deal was 4 years ago. Looking at Sanchez and Kolb's contract Joe is due about 15m a year. The Ravens absolutely cannot move away from Joe and Joe does not seem like the type to make unreasonable demands. My only concern on getting a deal done is the Raven's current offensive mindset is terrible for a qb. I do think that is slowly going to change. You hear Joe talking about the offense needing to score more points and you can tell there is some frustration with the current mindset. It would be one thing if the Ravens had a dominant run game but they don't and Joe suffers most of the criticism for the offense sputtering.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Yea, a friend of mine said that Brees and his agent are looking for something along the lines of a 7 year deal for about $120 mill with about $50 guaranteed or so.

Apparently the years and the guaranteed money is the big hold up.

Brees already turned down a lot more than that. The Saints offered him 6 years $120 with more than 50% guaranteed. Brees is asking for a deal that averages more than $25 a year and the Saints top offer is $20.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

I think 7 for $120 might be too high. Not out of the ballpark, but too high (IMO).

Maybe like a 6 year extension on his current deal worth $95 mill, which would put him pretty close to or just over/under the $100 million dollar QB club.

Very astute and accurate assessment, it will be right around a $100 million give or take. No way he is getting $120 or close to it, agent really could not argue in good faith that he deserves that no precedent or comparable deal.

The beauty of the NFL with the cap is when these big deals come up you aren't going to shatter previous deals like in MLB, you fall right in the box where recent deals were for the most part. The wiggle room just isn't there and huge increases are just not possible and both sides know this.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by GOTA

Brees already turned down a lot more than that. The Saints offered him 6 years $120 with more than 50% guaranteed. Brees is asking for a deal that averages more than $25 a year and the Saints top offer is $20.

I heard his agent say that this is his last chance for a payday, and really his only chance. He talked about how Brees played through his rookie contract, got injured and took the best deal he could find at the time. Now he wants to be mega paid.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by Ravenswintitle

I heard his agent say that this is his last chance for a payday, and really his only chance. He talked about how Brees played through his rookie contract, got injured and took the best deal he could find at the time. Now he wants to be mega paid.

Brees also played a year under the franchise tag and then blew out his shoulder at the end of the season. The Chargers then decided not to even negotiate with him. That scared the hell out of him even though it worked out and he was able to get good offers from the Dolphins and Saints. He's said though that he will never go through that again. I still think this deal gets done before the deadline and it will be closer to what Brees wants than what the Saints are offering.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by JAB1985

As far as the lockout goes, which of those other teams relied so heavily on unproven talent that were even more greatly effected by the lockout?... the answer is none. nobody had as green of a receiving unit as we did last year. Drew brees, Brady, Eli, Rodgers, and Stafford all had vet WRs that also were with the team for years. Thats a really unfair argument, even if it is the counter.

You really think Flacco had it rougher last offseason than Cam Newton, or Andy Dalton, off the top of my head? I respectfully disagree.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by redmike34

You really think Flacco had it rougher last offseason than Cam Newton, or Andy Dalton, off the top of my head? I respectfully disagree.

Cam Newton has a better pass protection, a better receiving core, and gets to play a bunch of soft defenses in the south. Andy Dalton played under a very conservative game plan last year, had a better receiving core, better pass protection, and zero expectation.

Flacco had a rookie and raw WR, systemically not a great fit at WR in AnQuan Boldin, not very good pass protection, and a RB friendly offensive coordinator. Don't forget about all the tough defenses we came up against last season either.

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Cam Newton has a better pass protection, a better receiving core, and gets to play a bunch of soft defenses in the south. Andy Dalton played under a very conservative game plan last year, had a better receiving core, better pass protection, and zero expectation.

Flacco had a rookie and raw WR, systemically not a great fit at WR in AnQuan Boldin, not very good pass protection, and a RB friendly offensive coordinator. Don't forget about all the tough defenses we came up against last season either.

You're still comparing a 4th-year QB against two rookies, one of which went up against most of the same competition as Flacco, and both of whom were learning a new system. When you consider the lockout prevented them from having much time to get up to speed with their respective teams, it seems to me that neither of them were as well set up for success as Flacco was--a 4th year QB, returning to the same system, with the same team, a lot of the same players (Boldin, Dickson, Pitta, Rice...).

Which is not to say that I think Flacco was particularly well set up for success--I simply object to JAB1985's assessment that the Ravens were more affected by the lockout than any other team. Who knows what Newton/Dalton might have looked like last year with a full offseason?

Re: Philly extend up LeSean McCoy

The lockout impacted everyone equally.

It's not like Flacco was coming back to a team with a bunch of familiar faces. Just because he was familiar with the offense doesn't mean that he was familiar with the offense with Q and a bunch of rookies/2nd year guys at receiver. That was pretty evident early on.