As an artist I am always changing my mind!
Fourthstone.....sorry another change.....can you tell me how to change a double click to a single click on the palette please? If you can point me out where it is ( if you can remember ) that would be great. I find sometime it's not very responsive doing a double click and I am there clicking.....

I also wanted to experiment with not having an Undo after every stroke ....to see if it's faster or not......I might be able to live without it if it means painting is a bit more fluid.....

Sorry I bet it's going to drive you nuts but it's all experimentation isn't it.
If you can't remember don't worry I'll try to hunt it down in the code.

pixelblip wrote:Fourthstone.....sorry another change.....can you tell me how to change a double click to a single click on the palette please?
...

I also wanted to experiment with not having an Undo after every stroke ....to see if it's faster or not......I might be able to live without it if it means painting is a bit more fluid.....

Hey Pixel, might have a bit of an issue with using single click for opening the menu as that is currently the main input for drawing

The hot spot should still be active in the top left corner and f1 also opens the menu if that helps? Otherwise maybe I'm confused, how did you want to make the single click work for the menu?

We could change the code for performing an undo when starting to draw, what about other functions? Have to be careful as all drawing or picture changes are linked together with undo so just need to be clear about which functions we want to change. The other consideration is the erasing of the cursor before capturing the undo, if we take undo off some functions then we need also consider if the cursor needs to be hidden for those functions... simple!

Anyway, the undo function is 'PROCtempSS' and the mouse drawing function is 'PROCp65', have a look if you're game .

I'm happy to make any changes you want to try, this is all just work in progress so lets try to configure it whichever way it works best.

I am still in the (slow) process of writing a native windows app for drawing with beeb graphics but RL has really gotten in the way of my creative spare time right now which means I haven't been doing any coding at all , hoping that will change so I can spend more time on my many projects

Pablos544 wrote:Forgive me for being the one that sounds daft here but how do I run this program?
...
[EDIT]: I'm using BeebEm in BBC Micro mode

Hi Pablo, apologies for any confusion, this program needs a master to run as it uses SWR for code and undo functions. If you configure beebem for BBC Master 128 then it should work.

EDIT: You also need to enable Analogue Mousestick

To get it to start just mount the SSD and do a shift F12 to auto boot.

At some stage I will add some code to give a warning or message if not running on a master. Also I need to add code to detect SWR and ensure there is enough as the program could run on a B+ with SWR installed... step by step

Thanks for the feedback, good to know people are wanting to have a look

Hey Pixel, had a quick look and updated the drawing routine to not do an undo, check it out and let me know if that works?

There is still a slight delay when starting to draw, this is due to the double click being checked for opening the menu... would have to have a re-think about how clicks are detected if we wanted to remove this delay as it's pushing the limits of what the software and hardware can do...

Ha. I just downlaoded the previous version for the first time minutes ago. Good work. Although I used to struggle to draw anything meaningful on Deluxe Paint on the Amiga. On the BBC anything I draw looks lik it was done by a 3 year old. I guess no matter how good the software it wont give me any artistic talent.

Cheers Fourthstone! Patience you have I will give it a go tonight. Need to get the Star Wars pic done eh.

Yeh I am sure you are pushing it to the limit here...........I can cope with it .........the pictures will keep coming
Sooner or later I will get a real BBC Master and start doing my pics on that...........it will be interesting to see what it's like.
Yes it is good work Elminster. Fourthstone and the gang have been so helpful in getting it all off the ground. It's an impressive little program.

Dpaint....ahh a man after my own heart. It still remains the best paint program to date. Dpaint V was a serious mind blower.........the way you could mix colours was like a Quantel paint box...........for it's time simply amazing.

Sorry just re-read your post Fourthstone: When you select a colour did I specify a double click or single click....I can't recall. It might be the responsiveness of my hardware that makes me click-click on a colour to select it - I think at one stage I asked you for a double click on the palette to select a colour and now I have changed my mind

Update: Just tried on my super Core I5 pc - it doesn't need a double click to select a colour - must be my Atom tablet ....sorry it's nice to draw on but not an I5

FourthStone wrote:
Hi Pablo, apologies for any confusion, this program needs a master to run as it uses SWR for code and undo functions. If you configure beebem for BBC Master 128 then it should work.
....
EDIT: You also need to enable Analogue Mousestick

To get it to start just mount the SSD and do a shift F12 to auto boot.

ok, done, done, and got as far as mounting the ART.ssd and then doing shift F12
having no real experience with BBC Master Hardware I can only really confirm I get the Acorn MOS, Acorn 1770 DFS so BeebEm seems to be running as Master 128

and then when I start the .ssd running it briefly reads the disk but then just returns to > command prompt

if I then try running the files, with *ART, *LOADER, *MENU001 briefly I get a little panel of instructions from *LOADER but then again I get dropped back in the command > prompt.

It's a shame because I really love the look of the program. I use one Pro Motion by Cosmigo based on Deluxe Paint but am really loving the patterns you've done to create more colours.

FourthStone wrote:
At some stage I will add some code to give a warning or message if not running on a master. Also I need to add code to detect SWR and ensure there is enough as the program could run on a B+ with SWR installed... step by step

Thanks for the feedback, good to know people are wanting to have a look

definitely wanting to take a look that's putting it mildy I hope it comes on well, sounds good about putting affirmations in in case a dumb user like myself tries to use it in BBC Micro 32K mode

Pablos544 wrote:
ok, done, done, and got as far as mounting the ART.ssd and then doing shift F12
having no real experience with BBC Master Hardware I can only really confirm I get the Acorn MOS, Acorn 1770 DFS so BeebEm seems to be running as Master 128

and then when I start the .ssd running it briefly reads the disk but then just returns to > command prompt

Should be okay I have loaded the latest ssd into both BeebEm and B2 (both Mac versions) today without issue.

Last edited by Elminster on Fri May 19, 2017 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You might be right pixelblip I as I can remember messing around with those particular settings in BeebEm while trying to trouble shoot some issues with real sideways RAM I was having at the end of 2014. Cheers!

right quickly fourthstone which version of BeebEm have you got because I've got 4.03.
Being a bit lazy I thought it was better because it had a nice installer
I say this because I notice there is no Floppy Drive On/Off in mine
I got:
- Econet On/Off
- Teletext Adapter On/Off
- Hard Drive On/Off
- ...
- no Floppy Drive On/Off
- no SCSI Hard Drive On/Off
- no IDE Hard Drive On/Off
- ...just the generic Hard Drive

Model B Floppy Controller / Native 8271 is enabled and apparently working
don't have a Second Processor category on my ver 4.03
....only a ARM Second Processor which is not selected
!!!!!!! now here's what could be the deal breaker
I don't have a Allow SW RAM Write menu at all!!
got
- Allow ROM Writes
that's it!
you got
- Allow SW RAM Write
- SW RAM Board On/Off
- Edit ROM Configuration
- ....that said I got my Allow ROM Writes configured pretty much the same as you

I was just having a thought now..........a bit off topic.............just thinking about how good the BBC is compared to other platforms...........I wonder how easy it would be to write an art program like this in Sinclair Basic ........or for the C64............sure you could in machine code.........but Basic.........

That's the thing about the BBC ........you can get things done with it even if you are not an expert programmer...anyway that was a thought.......wouldn't a new BBC be great....anyway back on topic and on with the pics and ART feedback

I think I might start on an Autumn picture for you Forthstone as you are in Autumn.........and maybe try a melting Beeb for Lurkio..........
Of course I will revisit some other old pictures and try to get them done....having different ones on the go keeps it more interesting I find.....trouble is they take a long time to finish if one does that....

Out of interest Fourthstone, how is that graphics BBC program coming on you are writing in windows.......

pixelblip wrote:Out of interest Fourthstone, how is that graphics BBC program coming on you are writing in windows.......

It's on simmer at the moment but hoping to get some free time to start work on it again soon(ish), as always RL tends to take priority. It is partly done and some of the framework is in place so I just need to add some drawing and editing bits and it should be good try out soon.

Love the idea of making ART in other basic variants, but BBC basic has always been my fav and really does have an impressive feature list.

pixelblip wrote:I was just having a thought now..........a bit off topic.............just thinking about how good the BBC is compared to other platforms...........I wonder how easy it would be to write an art program like this in Sinclair Basic ........or for the C64............sure you could in machine code.........but Basic.........

That's the thing about the BBC ........you can get things done with it even if you are not an expert programmer...anyway that was a thought.......wouldn't a new BBC be great....anyway back on topic and on with the pics and ART feedback

Just a thought on this, have you checked out BBC Basic for Windows? It allows you to write programs with BBC basic and compiles them into Windows 32 bit applications. Might be worth checking out if you wanted to stick with the brilliant BBC basic syntax but also have advanced features at your finger tips if required and the programs it spits out will run on your tablet

Thanks for the recommendation.
I did check out BBC Basic for Windows Fourthstone. The trouble was there was no patterning ( as far as I could tell) only 256 Colours ( unless I am mistaken). The GFX Rom chip doesn't seem to be in BBC Basic for Windows - at least not the pattern and shading commands ....I could be wrong of course.

I'm thinking of giving "ART for Windows" a go with BBC Basic for Windows, it supports modes 0-7 along with newer modes which can be ignored.

It doesn't have the GFX patterns but I don't think they will be missed, the patterns could be programmed and because it's compiled it should be fast enough to handle custom patterns and a lot more like blending and transparency

That sounds great Fourthstone and exciting. I can think of a few things for sure.
I suppose the only thing that might prove tricky is making sure the patterns tessellate properly no matter where you are painting from . I wonder how that is achieved.

Being able to use sprites / custom brushes and copy n paste would be nice. Sometimes I have yearned for that.

I can imagine a Dpaint like interface would be nice - like AMX SuperArt...........I've always thought Dpaint's interface was so well thought out and never got in the way.

Things I liked about Dpaint were translucent brushes, blur/ wet brushes ( like aliasing around the edges ) and the best of all was the palette mixer......that was really cool. You could make so many shades then pick a colour. Dpaint V had all of those. Gradients were also so nice.

Layers are something that are always really nice to have as well. It's starting to sound like a BBC version of Photoshop!

Here is the Dpaint V palette in all it's glory............also 'Image Master' from Apple IIe had a nice really nice interface ( I tried them all!) .....just to give you some ideas.....

Been having a play with BB4W and have a quick proof of concept knocked up, nothing fancy just one pattern and ability to change the size of the brush, Z to make smaller, X to make bigger, left mouse button to draw, drawing and changing size can be used at the same time.

If interested download the free version of BB4W and paste in the code below. Programs can be up to 32K of RAM but cannot compile unless the full version is purchased... which I am considering doing... compiled projects are royalty free and can be shared freely

The drawing is super smooth but there is a few bugs but these would be fixed if I go ahead with the project.