Basically just looks like an older version of Joe Borchard to me. Decent glove, some power, but can't hit worth a damn.

You said it, I'd rather have the same player (Borchard)with at least some upside remaining.

Banix12

03-03-2006, 01:37 AM

You said it, I'd rather have the same player (Borchard)with at least some upside remaining.

I just said he was the same type of player, don't take that as an endorsement as one over the other. I think both of those hacks need to hang up the mitt and admit they can't play major league baseball.

Though I will say the sox have amassed a nice little group of OF to compete for the backup spot. Grieve can hit OK but he can't field worth a damn. Rivera can field pretty good but can't hit worth a damn. Gload can barely be called an OF but he can hit.

I think this crew was brought together, at least the two new guys Grieve and Rivera, for the explicit purpose of making Joe Borchard look good in comparison.

SoxFan76

03-03-2006, 02:00 AM

I just said he was the same type of player, don't take that as an endorsement as one over the other. I think both of those hacks need to hang up the mitt and admit they can't play major league baseball.

Though I will say the sox have amassed a nice little group of OF to compete for the backup spot. Grieve can hit OK but he can't field worth a damn. Rivera can field pretty good but can't hit worth a damn. Gload can barely be called an OF but he can hit.

I think this crew was brought together, at least the two new guys Grieve and Rivera, for the explicit purpose of making Joe Borchard look good in comparison.

They're both better than you. And maybe they really love the game?

Relax, he'll probably never see time on the major league team.

Banix12

03-03-2006, 02:12 AM

They're both better than you. And maybe they really love the game?

Relax, he'll probably never see time on the major league team.

I didn't know my ability to play was the benchmark we were shooting for. This isn't about my ability to play baseball. If all a player had to do to be a good player is be better than me then more than a 75% of the world's population would be good baseball players.

I would question Borchard's love of the game, at least the professional game, since is is already considering retiring to try football again. As for Rivera, either he loves the game a whole bunch or he has nothing else he can do.

Hacks was probably too strong a term in my original post. Though I still stand by my opinion that neither Borchard or Rivera belong on a major league roster.

SoxFan76

03-03-2006, 02:31 AM

If they don't belong on a ML roster, I can respect that. But saying they should hang it up and retire...that's really not fair. They have the greatest job in the world. And maybe they truly love it.

As for Borchard, I can see where you COULD question his loyalty to the game, but then again if you look at the other side, he has been gifted with the ability to play 2 sports at a well-above average level (compared to the general public). The fact that he even has the option to switch sports is amazing if you ask me.

Banix12

03-03-2006, 03:34 AM

If they don't belong on a ML roster, I can respect that. But saying they should hang it up and retire...that's really not fair. They have the greatest job in the world. And maybe they truly love it.

As for Borchard, I can see where you COULD question his loyalty to the game, but then again if you look at the other side, he has been gifted with the ability to play 2 sports at a well-above average level (compared to the general public). The fact that he even has the option to switch sports is amazing if you ask me.

People say that players should retire all the time. At the end of football season half of the chatter was "Should Brett Favre retire?". The sox just brought in Hideo Nomo, he's had two lousy years in a row and can't throw a decent fastball anymore. I'm sure plenty of people think he should retire. It's perfectly fair to have that opinion. The players don't have to listen to me or any other fan who has that opinion, and normally they don't. I don't understand why you are being so sensitive on the subject.

For Borchard it might have been less called for since he is still fairly young and there is a chance he could change and be a decent player (I don't personally see it happening but I know others of you do). In my opinion I don't see a promising future in professional baseball for him so I think he should move on to something like football.

As for Rivera, like I said, either he really loves the game or baseball is the only thing he is qualified to do because frankly I can't think of one reason why any major league team would consider him for a position, even as minor league roster filler.

I was a little crass in my post which detailed my opinion, and I apologize for the way I presented it. But I stand by the sentiment of the opinion.

Iwritecode

03-03-2006, 10:22 AM

If they don't belong on a ML roster, I can respect that. But saying they should hang it up and retire...that's really not fair. They have the greatest job in the world. And maybe they truly love it.

As for Borchard, I can see where you COULD question his loyalty to the game, but then again if you look at the other side, he has been gifted with the ability to play 2 sports at a well-above average level (compared to the general public). The fact that he even has the option to switch sports is amazing if you ask me.

Players don't make the team because they can play better than the general public. They make the team because they can play better than their peers (other major league players). When they can no longer play better than their peers, it's probably time to give it up.

How well Joe Blow off the street can play has nothing to do with it...

SoxFan76

03-03-2006, 03:28 PM

Apparently my point isn't coming across very well. I'm not trying to start a big debate here. Saying a 20-something outfielder who can't make a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP team should retire? Not a fan of that.

A 32-year old outfielder is not old either.

Why am I still arguing. Nevermind. Retire. Screw baseball, I'm sure there are much better jobs out there. :rolleyes:

CWSpalehoseCWS

03-03-2006, 04:09 PM

He sounds to me like a AAA roster filler.

Iwritecode

03-03-2006, 04:09 PM

Apparently my point isn't coming across very well. I'm not trying to start a big debate here. Saying a 20-something outfielder who can't make a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP team should retire? Not a fan of that.

He's been playing in the Mexican leagues. That should give him a clue that maybe he just can't cut it as a major league player.

Why am I still arguing. Nevermind. Retire. Screw baseball, I'm sure there are much better jobs out there. :rolleyes:

Some guys are happy being career minor-leaguers. Problem is when he does get too old to play he might have to go out and get a "real" job. It's hard to become financially secure playing in mexican leagues.

Just ask Jake Taylor. :wink:

Hagan

03-03-2006, 05:03 PM

I love this move!!! Not because Ruben will ever be anything but because he is one of my favorite players for some reason. Ruben was supposed to be the next GOD while with New York and with the Padres and turned out to be one of the biggest flops ever. I hope he some how does well with us.

Britt Burns

03-03-2006, 05:44 PM

This guy was just another overrated Yankee prospect...put Rivera in San Diego as a minor leaguer and no one would have ever heard of him. Farmio comments on this a lot; the spankees treat every halfway decent prospect in their system like the next Ted Williams. AAA filler, no more, no less.

crazyozzie02

03-03-2006, 05:46 PM

What do you guys think about NOMO though?

Banix12

03-03-2006, 08:12 PM

Apparently my point isn't coming across very well. I'm not trying to start a big debate here. Saying a 20-something outfielder who can't make a WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP team should retire? Not a fan of that.

A 32-year old outfielder is not old either.

Why am I still arguing. Nevermind. Retire. Screw baseball, I'm sure there are much better jobs out there. :rolleyes:

I pretty much get the point you were going for. You're essentially saying that playing professional baseball, no matter at what level, is the greatest job in the world so they should just play. I think it's a slightly idealized view. Baseball is fun but minor league baseball is not exactly a dream job. Relatively low pay, on the road most of the year, busses and motels, etc. I think there does come a point where the chance for advancement in the system is minimal, your career is in limbo, and it's time to consider scouting or coaching or something else. After 4 years at AAA and getting passed over by other OF prospects Borchard seems to be reaching that point.

My basic opinion of Borchard is that he's not good enough to be reasonably successful on any major league team. Certainly some team might give him a spot based on a perceived "potential", what little potential he really has left. My opinion though has nothing to do with the quality of team he is trying out for. He could be trying to be Colorado's 5th OF and I would have the same opinion.

32 years old may not be old, but it is getting around the age when most players start showing a decline in their game and Rivera hasn't even been good enough to be minor league roster filler for the last two years.

This guy was just another overrated Yankee prospect...put Rivera in San Diego as a minor leaguer and no one would have ever heard of him. Farmio comments on this a lot; the spankees treat every halfway decent prospect in their system like the next Ted Williams. AAA filler, no more, no less.

He owes his entire major league career to 88 MLB at bats in 1996 where he had a .284 average and a .381 OBP. It made him look like a better player than he actually was and the Padres traded quite a bit for him that offseason. The signs were there though for what kind of hitter he was. He only hit .236 at AAA that year and had 96 Ks in 362 AAA ABs.

Career .246 AAA hitter. I think he belongs in the Mexican league. I don't know why he is here.

soxinem1

03-05-2006, 11:12 AM

I pretty much get the point you were going for. You're essentially saying that playing professional baseball, no matter at what level, is the greatest job in the world so they should just play. I think it's a slightly idealized view. Baseball is fun but minor league baseball is not exactly a dream job. Relatively low pay, on the road most of the year, busses and motels, etc. I think there does come a point where the chance for advancement in the system is minimal, your career is in limbo, and it's time to consider scouting or coaching or something else. After 4 years at AAA and getting passed over by other OF prospects Borchard seems to be reaching that point.

My basic opinion of Borchard is that he's not good enough to be reasonably successful on any major league team. Certainly some team might give him a spot based on a perceived "potential", what little potential he really has left. My opinion though has nothing to do with the quality of team he is trying out for. He could be trying to be Colorado's 5th OF and I would have the same opinion.

32 years old may not be old, but it is getting around the age when most players start showing a decline in their game and Rivera hasn't even been good enough to be minor league roster filler for the last two years.

He owes his entire major league career to 88 MLB at bats in 1996 where he had a .284 average and a .381 OBP. It made him look like a better player than he actually was and the Padres traded quite a bit for him that offseason. The signs were there though for what kind of hitter he was. He only hit .236 at AAA that year and had 96 Ks in 362 AAA ABs.

Career .246 AAA hitter. I think he belongs in the Mexican league. I don't know why he is here.

I agree. Plus he's a petty thief too. He made a few million before the glove incident so anyone who is dumb enough to steal a teammate's belongings is really lacking in judgment. Plus, he's a KO machine.

Do we really need such a questionable character in the organization?

The more I think about it, the Mexican league is too good for him, he should go to Taiwan. There he can also get a part time job making paperweights, recipe boxes, or other items that stock Dollar Stores.