If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Wow...Some people think only Choir Boys play in the NFL. Some are naive enough to think only Choir Boys play for the Steelers. "But can he play football?" Just how many times do you think that question is asked after the "bad" is summarized about a prospect. The sky is blue. Water is wet. Football is not for the weak. Girls don't play football. There is a fine line between confident & "A" hole but they both play in the NFL and for the Steelers.

Bray wouldn't be the first kid drafted by the Steelers who reeks of immauturity & he won't be the last. The question of "Will he become a profesional" is what the FO will sort out in the interviews. The answer to the question "But can he play football?" will be answered for all of you come draft day. Who he becomes is up to him.

As far as Bray & the Steelers...It would be a very good situation for both. Another year in school for Bray could have elevated his stock into the 1st. I won't get into the argument of how far because that would have depended on him. I do believe his decision was based on some part of Patterson, Hunter, Thomas, & Rivera entering the draft. He wouldn't be asked to produce early in his career. He can sit at #3 & hold a clipboard. His position coach would work with him and he will learn the NFL game as an observer. He will learn how to be a professional from his team mates & coaches. That being said, do I think the interest is all about Bray? I think they would draft him if he falls further than his grade if they like how he interviewed. I don't think he is a "target" player. What I really think it is about is finding out about Patterson & Hunter. The things that you can't measure. I do believe Patterson would be the pick @ #17 if he falls and Hunter would be a 2nd round consideration. Just all part of the process.

Of course there are good, bad, mature, immature, etc on each team and in some instances all in one person. The question for me is this: If you know he's a dimwit, arrogant or a headcase, why bother? Those are not traits that a quarterback coach can alleviate. A quarterback coach, can, however, fix the footwork, throwing mechanics, hot reads, progressions, etc. A character flaw isn't correctable by a coach, unless, the coach is a licensed psychologist as well as a wealth of football knowledge.

I've never seen Bray play, but if he's anything close to the descriptions in this thread, me, personally, I wouldn't draft for those reasons. Of course, on the other hand, you could draft a kid that puts up the great facade during the interview and then becomes the devil incarnate once he joins the team.

We all know this is a poor year for franchise QBs or even full-time starters, but there are some interesting prospects to talk about.

Geno Smith has the best combination of athleticism, arm, size and makeup, but he is certainly no sure thing. I would have liked to see Smith run a little more last year when the opportunity arose because the ability to create when a play breaks down would be a big plus in the NFL.

Matt Barkley is worth a late first round pick in my opinion, but only to a team who has a starter in place and who is looking to try and groom him. If a bad team drafted him and tried to plug him in right now, I think he would fail and potentially fail miserably. He needs more coaching.

To me, the guys with the biggest upsides are Mike Glennon and EJ Manuel, but for different reasons. Glennon has the size and the arm, but he makes poor decisions at times which results in turnovers and he will get sacked a ton. If you plugged him in with a strong offensive line and gave him time to throw, he could be a QB who attacks defenses down the field as he showed the ability to strike with the deep ball quite often at N.C. State. Anything short of a great pair of tackles and he will get creamed.

Manuel is a pure projection. His stats from Florida State look good on paper, but his play didn't always say "first three round QB". What I really like about Manuel besides his size and ability to operate outside of the pocket is that he's got moldable traits. He has played out of gun, under center and run some zone-read. He's the perfect prospect for a team looking to diversify their offense. He's got a high ceiling, but a low floor so taking him within the first two rounds is a swing for the fences.

Tyler Wilson showed a desire to survive last year which meant getting rid of the ball quickly. He is better than what we saw at times last year behind that offensive line and with that lack of skill talent, but I don't think he has the type of NFL arm most teams will look for. He needs to be in a west coast offense.

As for Ryan Nassib, he's intelligent and competitive, but I can't get past the fact that so much of his game looks so average. I just don't see the 1st round grades that some are putting on him.

Tyler Bray's measurables are very intriguing, but I would have liked to have seen even more production considering he was playing with NFL-caliber WRs and an NFL-caliber left tackle in Dallas Thomas.

Zac Dysert appears to be relatively average in every way as well, but I like him. I saw poise when I studied him and I think that is a very important trait for a potential NFL starter. Landry Jones has a decent arm and a quick set-up but his accuracy inconsistencies are hard for me to get past.

Of course there are good, bad, mature, immature, etc on each team and in some instances all in one person. The question for me is this: If you know he's a dimwit, arrogant or a headcase, why bother? Those are not traits that a quarterback coach can alleviate. A quarterback coach, can, however, fix the footwork, throwing mechanics, hot reads, progressions, etc. A character flaw isn't correctable by a coach, unless, the coach is a licensed psychologist as well as a wealth of football knowledge.

I've never seen Bray play, but if he's anything close to the descriptions in this thread, me, personally, I wouldn't draft for those reasons. Of course, on the other hand, you could draft a kid that puts up the great facade during the interview and then becomes the devil incarnate once he joins the team.

Pappy

I've seen him play and it's frustrating... the guy has the tools, the arm and last year he had the weapons. However, what he didn't have was accuracy or a will to win. He reminds me of Phillip Rivers and Cutler... but without the W's. He is the type to check out during a game winning drive.

Of course there are good, bad, mature, immature, etc on each team and in some instances all in one person. The question for me is this: If you know he's a dimwit, arrogant or a headcase, why bother? Those are not traits that a quarterback coach can alleviate. A quarterback coach, can, however, fix the footwork, throwing mechanics, hot reads, progressions, etc. A character flaw isn't correctable by a coach, unless, the coach is a licensed psychologist as well as a wealth of football knowledge. I've never seen Bray play, but if he's anything close to the descriptions in this thread, me, personally, I wouldn't draft for those reasons. Of course, on the other hand, you could draft a kid that puts up the great facade during the interview and then becomes the devil incarnate once he joins the team. Pappy

Not all in reponse to you Pap...I made a stew post. Don't anyone take offense.

That is what the interview process is for. I see the concerns..I'm not blind. But I see the talent...Like I said...I'm not blind. Bray isn't unique by defintion from many of the prospects. As far as your "dimwit, arrogant or a headcase,"...That came from what? The posters in here? Arrogant..."Swagger".... A Cutler or Rivers? Would that be bad as a #3 in the 3rd? Immaturity of a 21 year old can improve. There are examples of it through decades of drafts. There are also examples of failures...I'm not saying there is no risk. We aren't talking about making him the 1st round pick. Like I said, some of you are very naive thinking the Steelers take players off the board because of attitude. Many put the Steelers morals on a pedestal that doesn't exist. The Steelers may not be in the same house but they are in the same block. They put football players on their roster weighed against their risks.

Dooley's thoughts on him as a Freshman.
[URL]http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/dec/20/brays-laid-back-attitude-impresses-dooley/Bray[/URL]

Bray is confident...He may be immature...He may say the wrong things at times. But the kid can ball. In my opinion, the most physically gifted QB in this draft. Most upside. Yes...There are risks but he isn't being drafted to be the franchise guy day 1 in the 1st round. Bray's best situation since he came out early is going to a strong organization with a franchise guy in place. He needs to learn to be an NFL QB & a professional. Don't have to like him or agree with me. Facts are his talent & upside warrant consideration if he is around in the 3rd for the Steelers if he interviews well. It is a fact that he needs to represent himself better but that is an obstacle with many kids coming out of college. He is a "Boom or Bust" pick at the QB position. If you can take that risk in the 3rd...You do it.

28 Games were all under Dooley's 3 years. Dooley was fired last year. In 28 games Bray was 14-14. Not great winning %. But....

540/922 59% 7,444 yds 69 Tds 28 Ints

2012: (12 games) 268/451 59.4% 3,612 yds 34 Tds 12 Ints

Those numbers under a new coaches 3 years who got fired at the end of his 3rd year. Talent? Bum? Dimwit? Headcase? Punk? Blank Card? There will be teams wanting to write his name on a card. More than likely Day 2 of draft. Will the Steelers be the first one? I would support it 100% if it was in the 3rd back. If he "Busts"....So be it. If he "Booms"....He can eat Steak whenever he wants & be a D!ck to the waitress. I wouldn't care. And guess what...Neither would the Steelers if he was winning. Slap on wrist...Go win a championship.

Not all in reponse to you Pap...I made a stew post. Don't anyone take offense.

That is what the interview process is for. I see the concerns..I'm not blind. But I see the talent...Like I said...I'm not blind. Bray isn't unique by defintion from many of the prospects. As far as your "dimwit, arrogant or a headcase,"...That came from what? The posters in here? Arrogant..."Swagger".... A Cutler or Rivers? Would that be bad as a #3 in the 3rd? Immaturity of a 21 year old can improve. There are examples of it through decades of drafts. There are also examples of failures...I'm not saying there is no risk. We aren't talking about making him the 1st round pick. Like I said, some of you are very naive thinking the Steelers take players off the board because of attitude. Many put the Steelers morals on a pedestal that doesn't exist. The Steelers may not be in the same house but they are in the same block. They put football players on their roster weighed against their risks.

Dooley's thoughts on him as a Freshman.
[URL]http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2010/dec/20/brays-laid-back-attitude-impresses-dooley/Bray[/URL]

Bray is confident...He may be immature...He may say the wrong things at times. But the kid can ball. In my opinion, the most physically gifted QB in this draft. Most upside. Yes...There are risks but he isn't being drafted to be the franchise guy day 1 in the 1st round. Bray's best situation since he came out early is going to a strong organization with a franchise guy in place. He needs to learn to be an NFL QB & a professional. Don't have to like him or agree with me. Facts are his talent & upside warrant consideration if he is around in the 3rd for the Steelers if he interviews well. It is a fact that he needs to represent himself better but that is an obstacle with many kids coming out of college. He is a "Boom or Bust" pick at the QB position. If you can take that risk in the 3rd...You do it.

28 Games were all under Dooley's 3 years. Dooley was fired last year. In 28 games Bray was 14-14. Not great winning %. But....

540/922 59% 7,444 yds 69 Tds 28 Ints

2012: (12 games) 268/451 59.4% 3,612 yds 34 Tds 12 Ints

Those numbers under a new coaches 3 years who got fired at the end of his 3rd year. Talent? Bum? Dimwit? Headcase? Punk? Blank Card? There will be teams wanting to write his name on a card. More than likely Day 2 of draft. Will the Steelers be the first one? I would support it 100% if it was in the 3rd back. If he "Busts"....So be it. If he "Booms"....He can eat Steak whenever he wants & be a D!ck to the waitress. I wouldn't care. And guess what...Neither would the Steelers if he was winning. Slap on wrist...Go win a championship.

I've been critical of him but I also posted I wouldn't have a problem drafting him in the 4th... edit post: I thought I said it earlier in the thread but apparently I didn't.

I think the OP used the 2nd and I think that's why most people are saying hell to the no!

I think we have more pressing needs in the 2nd than a clip holding boom or bust QB.