We went through our 'must worship infjs and persecute false ones and label them Infps, the useless type' a couple of years ago which was followed by swinging the pendulum the other way with a ' being infp is awesome, who needs infjs on their pedestal' movement.

You re catching the residual backlash of that pendulum that is still swinging.

Iow, this is a sensitive topic thats been done to death; just search for infp/infj threads.

...either way, its not likely to include people who object to being called rare, at least not in online communities.

i am curious though, what if instead of rare it would have said "the most abnormal & unusual type to be" or something like that? still means the same - an uncommon type - but a very different connotation. would we still have as many self proclaimed INFJs in online communities?

FYI
come to think of it, if i remember right a research someone posted, ENTPs are supposed to be the most common NT.. why doesn't it say that in any of the ENTP descriptions? i can't think of any other type that has its statistics written right in the first few words of every description, which doesn't really make sense to do anyway, it doesn't really tell you much about what people of that type are like.

I wasn't questioning the numbers, I was merely trying to get the accusations right. Who are we accusing, exactly? Is it based on wrong data? I've since checked the INFJ forums, and I didn't see even one thread about this subject in the first two pages. I was looking forward to that too.

I agree though, it shouldn't be in descriptions, it means nothing. Other than to cause one to pause and analyze the writer of the descriptions.

...either way, its not likely to include people who object to being called rare, at least not in online communities.

i am curious though, what if instead of rare it would have said "the most abnormal & unusual type to be" or something like that? still means the same - an uncommon type - but a very different connotation. would we still have as many self proclaimed INFJs in online communities?

FYI
come to think of it, if i remember right a research someone posted, ENTPs are supposed to be the most common NT.. why doesn't it say that in any of the ENTP descriptions? i can't think of any other type that has its statistics written right in the first few words of every description, which doesn't really make sense to do anyway, it doesn't really tell you much about what people of that type are like.

I wasn't questioning the numbers, I was merely trying to get the accusations right. Who are we accusing, exactly? Is it based on wrong data? I've since checked the INFJ forums, and I didn't see even one thread about this subject in the first two pages. I was looking forward to that too.

I agree though, it shouldn't be in descriptions, it means nothing. Other than to cause one to pause and analyze the writer of the descriptions.

What I was getting at was could there be a reason for it? Or are all INFJs angels? Your response was scolding and rang as if her sentiments were uncalled for. Am I incorrect in this? Frankly, though I don't give a shit. I'm tired and can tell we have differing understandings of this type (the OP is onto something in that the mistypes may be confusing things.) Sweet INFJ dreams.

No I didn't think it was uncalled for, if she has misgivings over INFJ's then that is her pejorative (it's of no consequence to me). Some people have a hard time mixing with certain types and can have low opinions of them for a laundry list of possible reasons (I have a hard time with Fi doms, and to a slightly lesser extent Ti doms), it's normal. I largely don't agree with her reasonings and how harsh they were (as I felt it was detracting from the argument), but that's it.

if i remember right, i brought this up myself awhile back, and it turned out older typoC polls reflect a lot closer to the percentage in general populations (which are themselves based on tests so meh), except more introverts in general. if this is still the case, it would mean INFJs are not more likely to come here, just more likely to stay and become permanent posters.

still, some of the arguments i've heard by INFJs to insure INFJs are special are.. sort of fun. keep an eye for them

It's well known I find them over-rated. But that's not the point here.

My objection is to the unfounded, yet oft repeated idea that INFPs have "special snowflake syndrome".
Yet, all evidence points to this being an INFJ thing.

This is patently untrue & condescending towards INFPs. Why is it acceptable to pin this bullshit on INFPs with NO EVIDENCE but make up excuses for why it's commonly observed among INFJs?

I was on INFJ's for 2.5 years. I would not call it an obsession at all (with respect to rarity). It was a topic that came up every couple of months, and newbies would mention it when they "learned it" in their intro posts, and it would stop. That's about it. We're going to have to agree to disagree on that point.

I'm referring to the PerC INFJ forum & other general typology forums.

You're also applying this to all INFJ's (at least with how you're wording it). I would contest that this applies to unhealthy and a minority of INFJ's. By and large, they are usually fairly status oriented as a group. They want groups, and they want harmony, but only people that fit into their idea of what a group should be. A huge reason why it often came up on there, was a drive to have a correct idea of what an INFJ is. Which included using individuals as examples/templates. It's hard to define Ni, and a lot of it came from that (again I was on there for 2.5 years and very very active so I was extremely aware of what went on). When there were witch hunts, it was often after members who were seen as undesirable, and many assumed because they were undesirable, it was because they weren't INFJ. A false assumption that proved to be wrong the majority of the time. That forum has had social problems since it's inception, much of it intractable (it's 1/2 of why I eventually left).

That forum does have social problems, but I wasn't referring to it exclusively or even primarily. I haven't even lurked there in some time. The level of irritation I experience is too high.
I'm talking about an over all trend when INFJs band together,a trend that does not occur among INFPs or e4s when banded together.

Anyway, I'm getting away from the initial premise of this. I still say E4 is the main driver of this, and less the nature of INFJ's. The very nature of E4 types can, and will drive individuals to act in this way, where they must be "special" though only poorly adapted, or undeveloped ones.

Yet, there is little if any EVIDENCE of this in e4 discussions, but plenty of it among INFJs! Your conclusion is based on what you want to believe, because for whatever reason, you don't want to consider that INFJs are the special snowflakers. Why so much resistance in people to seeing this pettiness within them? Why so ready to accept it as being among INFPs &/or e4s with NO EVIDENCE?

It's ridiculous BIAS, that's what. I'm directing this at these ideas in general, not so much you.

I will however, agree with you that INFJ's are often protrayed by many typing info websites as being these magical mystical creatures that are super special above and beyond the other types. That type of wording is terrible, and wrong. It feeds egos and does no good whatsoever. It's a symptom of what the type is. I seriously believe that if INFJ's were not the "rarest" type, and another type was, the exact same sort of pattern would emerge for a different type. The special type would talk about it, and it would be a thing. It's simply human nature to separate ourselves into groups, and everyone wants to feel important, special, or unique in some regard.

It's just like a spoiled child. Tell them "you're a special little princess!" they're going to start acting like one.

This is why I enjoy pointing out their common flaws & negative patterns among their type. It's my sense of fairness.

Originally Posted by yeghor

Pointing out that people may be mistyped is not necessarily restricted to cases where the other is mistyped as INFJ or the pointing out is done by an INFJ...not to mention that this is a "typology" forum...

I sometimes point out to people (usually privately) that they may be mistyped...I do this more frequently when the other is typed as INFJ and when there's a striking difference in what and how the other INFJ puts his/her ideas forward simply because the type I know best is "my own"...assuming that I am correctly typed myself...I do this from a Fe and Ti point of view...Ti because if the other person is mistyped as INFJ, whatever he/she shares in relation to INFJs will end up as misinformation/disinformation and hinder a true understanding of the type itself and the accompanying functions...and Fe because other people will end up drawing up misconclusions based on an incorrect starting point/premise/information...

Claiming that INFJs do this to maintain their specialty/superiority/eliteness as the (supposedly) rarest type is over-simplification and/or over-generalization...(and sounds like a Fi thing...not to imply that INFJs are perfect or above such actions)

We (all types/people) are all inclined to assume that other people also act with the same motivations we have...so you may be analyzing what's been happening from a Fi point of view...

No, this specific kind of discussion is only done among INFJs frequently. These are not general mistyping discussion. There are frequent threads made to identify "fake INFJs" and there are open comments about how people want to be them because they're so rare. I don't need to suspect motives - they're in plain sight. It is not my "Fi point of view", which BTW, has NOTHING TO DO WITH SPECIALNESS.

The bolded is more propaganda. That has NOTHING to do with introverted feeling. Again, there is NO EVIDENCE of this attitude among INFPs, yet there is LOTS of it among INFJs.

And implying that INFJs are above it & INFPs are not (because it's now my own Fi motivation ) is exactly what you just did. If this has anything to do with INFPs or Fi, then why does it not occur in discussions among them, yet frequently does among INFJs? Your assertions are non-sensical.

THERE IS NO BASIS for this propaganda that INFPs or the Fi ego have any connection to a "special snowflake syndrome" . This BS needs to end NOW. It's has no roots in reality & is degrading.

Anyway, assigning ulterior motives to such discussions is counter-productive...Perhaps it's best to focus on what can be learned in the process...

It's not ulterior motive when it's outright STATED. These threads often feature condescending BS about how so many INFPs are mistyping as INFJs because they want to be "special". Then they go on about how special & rare real INFJs are. NEVER have I seen the same thing so frequently on any other type's forum, including INFPs.

And I think it's very productive to discuss INFJ flaws, because it's not done enough & they are way over-rated with massively fed egos, and it may actually lead to less mistypings (if that indeed is the goal).

Other types/people are attacking INFPs using this angle (that they yearn to be INFJs)...and I do not condone it...the problem in that is this is creating an animosity in (some?) INFPs towards INFJs even though INFJs are not the real offender in that scenario...So the blame/anger seems to have been shifted somehow...

INFJs attack INFPs with this angle, as you just did with more unfounded ideas that Fi has anything to do with some sense of specialness.

Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

I appreciate you clarifying the tone in which you speak is in general towards the idea. Nevertheless, the level of anger/emotion and level of bias that I am seeing in you (and you stated it) is making this almost impossible to talk to you. So I am stopping here after this, and keeping this as minimized as I can. If I don't I am dead certain I am just going to piss you off, a lot, so I am not going to further than this post and call it good. Our communication styles are way to different.

Originally Posted by OrangeAppled

It's well known I find them over-rated. But that's not the point here.

My objection is to the unfounded, yet oft repeated idea that INFPs have "special snowflake syndrome".
Yet, all evidence points to this being an INFJ thing.

This is patently untrue & condescending towards INFPs. Why is it acceptable to pin this bullshit on INFPs with NO EVIDENCE but make up excuses for why it's commonly observed among INFJs?

The entirety of this evidence is based off your experiences, and mine. Both of which we are minimally aware of. A big differnece is your coming to your conclusions based off a group, and I am coming off my own from individual experiences. From what I have obseved, and seen in INFP's I have seen, and personally gotten to know (on and offline), a great deal of them feel very self important inside, but aren't even aware of it. It's simply innate. So I do see "special snowflake" in a lot of them pretty strongly. Most of the time it's not a negative thing per-say, but just their nature, and the nature of Fi (as it demands focus on the self in a value/subjective oriented direction). Since it's subtle, people can take it as passive aggressive and respond to it poorly. INFJ's can get this too, for different reasons, they are very focused on the self in a subjective manner because Ni demands self awareness. However, the are very often more vocal about their special-snowflake stuff and more apt to display it in a way that it's seen quickly. INFP's it's more subtle and usually not seen until the individual has opened up or gotten to know. For this reason, it seems reasonable to think it's going to display in INFJ's more; it shows in group dynamic. Not so much for INFP's, it's more individualistic/case-by-case and doesn't aggregate.

We have had different experiences. I would not claim that INFP's can have special-snowflake issues if I didn't observe it. Nor am I saying that INFJ's don't have special-snowflake issues. Neither of us could easily back up our claims, so I think it's best to agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by OrangeAppled

I'm referring to the PerC INFJ forum & other general typology forums.

That forum does have social problems, but I wasn't referring to it exclusively or even primarily. I haven't even lurked there in some time. The level of irritation I experience is too high.
I'm talking about an over all trend when INFJs band together,a trend that does not occur among INFPs or e4s when banded together.

Ok so I misunderstood then. I assumed we were talking about the same forum. I appologize. I have not observed large enough groups of INFP's, or diverse E4's (meaning E4's of many MBTI types), so I can't comment on it.

I think where there is misunderstanding is what both of us are deeming as important. I am more concerned with the reasonings behind why groups of INFJ's have special-snowflake issues (we both have observed it occurring). I see it as an issue of the type being labled as "the rarest" (which I see no reason to being correct, I see INFJ's to be rather common actually, but that's another matter), and that the fact that it is INFJ's is immaterial. You aren't though, and you are more primarly concerned with the manifestation of that issue in INFJ's. That's fair, and I can see why that is more of a primary concern to you.

Originally Posted by OrangeAppled

Yet, there is little if any EVIDENCE of this in e4 discussions, but plenty of it among INFJs! Your conclusion is based on what you want to believe, because for whatever reason, you don't want to consider that INFJs are the special snowflakers. Why so much resistance in people to seeing this pettiness within them? Why so ready to accept it as being among INFPs &/or e4s with NO EVIDENCE?

It's ridiculous BIAS, that's what. I'm directing this at these ideas in general, not so much you.

I'm not going to speculate on the reasons here (as I might have already said too much). All I will say is I don't have a bais in this regard. My opinion of INFJ's as a group/type is neutral on a good day.

Originally Posted by OrangeAppled

This is why I enjoy pointing out their common flaws & negative patterns among their type. It's my sense of fairness.