Posted
by
Soulskill
on Tuesday January 21, 2014 @08:03PM
from the enjoy-your-new-registrar dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Brent Simmons has posted about a troubling email he received from Network Solutions. He registered two domains with them in the 1990s, and the domains remain registered today. Simmons just received an email informing him that he'd been opted into some kind of security service called Weblock, and that he would be billed $1,850 for the first year. Further, he would be billed $1,350 for every year after the first. Believing it to be a scam, he contacted the official Network Solutions account on Twitter. They said it was real. The email even said he couldn't opt out except by making a phone call."

I see how this might be confusing. In anime the squid molests the people. The tables are turned in this episode of Netwaste Solutions. Can't wait for teh 3D version so I can finally see that squid get his.

A couple years back, Network Solutions "opted me in" for automatic payment of all my domains via credit (debit) card. I didn't want this, as I don't habitually keep enough money in the account to cover random charges; I put in what's needed, when needed, and that's how I like to roll. There's an opt-out checkmark; but it doesn't work. You have to call and it tells you so. Then when you call, they say "oh, hey, for some reason this isn't working..." So since I couldn't turn it off, I just changed to an expired card. Then I get panicked form emails about how it won't charge, and I pay by paypal. That worked last year. THIS year, though, what happens is that the Paypal charge is now automatic -- by paying once, you're opting in (without recourse of course) to paying them via paypal automatically forever. I found that once you paid, Paypal (not Network Solutions, but Paypal) has a way to disable the "agreement" and get you back to payment only when you authorize it. Takes some menu mining, but it's there. Or at least it was a few months ago.

The only reason I continue to use Network Solutions is because over the years (and yes, some of my domains have been up since the 90's as well) I've watched other name registering outfits come and go, seen various name server problems, etc., and for all their horrifying business practices and high prices, my sites seem to always work, which is what I place the most emphasis on.

Interesting note: When the above happened, I submitted the story to slashdot. Initially, it got high ratings, and I thought for sure it would post. Then it disappeared. I mean literally -- I could no longer find it in the submissions cue. It disappeared from my profile, too. Older and newer submissions remain. I have no idea what that means, but I thought it was weird. No other story I have submitted has disappeared like that.

Get a prepaid debit card, such as a GreenDot or similar.Only put money on the card when you need to pay a bill, never link it to a bank account/credit card.Since the card isn't linked to a bank account, there is no automatic charge mechanism that will work.

Network Solutions is a web.com company that is based in USA, in Florida. I know for Damn sure this illegal as hell what they are trying to do. Its 100% for sure against the law to add a service like this to your account and then charge you like that.

The number listed was posted on Network Solutions' official Twitter account, the same account which explicitly said that the email is real. It really is their official Twitter account; their website links to it, and checking archive.org reveals that their website has linked to it for quite some time.

Web.com (Network Solutions' parent company) has also responded in other ways, confirming this story. For example, see http://domainnamewire.com/2014... [domainnamewire.com] .

"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'."

Chances are, if you send them a properly formatted invoice for toner, they'll pay it (most companies do). See how much you can get before someone notices. It's no less fair than what they do. Just make sure you have a payment EULA that authorizes the charges.

I googled network solutions "weblock" and got their service agreement [networksolutions.com] which refers to a service by that name.

From the ToS:

Although WebLock shall provide for additional domain protection, you acknowledge and agree that the Service is not a guarantee or policy of insurance of any kind, and in no way will the use of or enrollment in the WebLock Service diminish or otherwise alter the other sections of this Agreement, including but not limited to, Section 7 (Exclusive Remedy) and Section 8 (Disclaimers of Warranties) above, which shall continue in full force and effect.

Can't be the only one here wondering...For $1850, just exactly what in the fuck are you getting then...

Unless he specifically selects the three domains to be covered he gets nothing for his money anyway:

The Service and related Service fee shall cover up to three (3) eligible domain names that you have registered with Network Solutions, whereby such eligible domains include.com,.net..tv,.cc and.name domain names. However, during the onboarding process for the Service you must specifically identify the eligible domain names within your account that are to be covered by the Service. Any domain names not identified, even if eligible and registered with Network Solutions shall not be covered under the Service. The Service shall require a one-time set-up fee and a recurring annual fee billed in advance each year.

If the feature doesn't exist (which it probably does, considering a co-commenter noted the name is at least used in one of their official documents), then it merely turns into a story of network solutions' official twitter account (as pointed to from network solutions' website) stating that a document that would be completely false, is in fact completely authentic, and make it rather strange that they would tell the guy to contact them directly so that they could explain.

The problem is that every company that does any amount of business and has online feedback will be reamed out by at least a handful of people. And then there's the classic "5 star rating system? So that means 5 if it works and 0 if there's anything wrong with it at all!" bit, too.

Comparative shopping online in terms of quality doesn't work when you have a decent number of big companies. At least, that's my experience; YMMV.

So you allege that Network Solutions official twitter account is hacked? Or that someone hacked twitter to fake the message?

Not impossible, but some evidence would be nice.

I don't believe the first tweet I see. I followed it back to the sender's page on twitter which has been around for some time and claims to represent networksolutions.com. It mostly advertises web.com.

Had it been @ISAYDUMBSTUFF instead, I wouldn't have given it any credence at all.

People have tried forcing people to buy their services before but you can't charge for a service someone didn't ask for. Well you can try but there is no legal power behind it. Things must be getting desperate over there.

If you think this falls within the EULA/TOS precedents, you obviously weren't paying attention in (or are still taking) your first year contracts course.

This is clearly an attempt to foist terms completely outside and beyond the scope of the original contract of sale onto the user, and the alleged new terms stray far into the territory of unconscionability without the formation of a new and independent contract.

There are also major problems with the extent and quality of notice given (a single email to an email account that may or may not be monitored?) and questions as to whether the "Head of Security" of Network Solutions has the authority (legal or corporate) to effectuate this contract on behalf of the company.

Pretty much since the 20th century. The law schools shit out lawyers and they end up in Congress. 60 Senators and 170 House members (last stats I could find) making up 43% of Congress. Largest representation of any profession, and that's not even looking at state governments.

I'd rather have lawmakers understand the field they're making laws in. You can always get lawyers to help you write legal documents, that's their job, but good luck getting a lawyer turned politician to understand medicine, physics, environment, psychology or economics.

Since everyone else is ignoring it, I'll mention the laws written by corporate legal departments and passed to their tame legislators to introduce without anyone outside the corporations legal staff bothering to read them.

I don't claim the majority of the laws happen that way, but many of the very worst have. Including some that didn't pass, but had to be fought, draining time and energy away from useful activities.

OTOH, there do exist decent lawyers. There even exist several that are worthy of praise. B

Their letter says they want to charge him that much for adding security to -their- website. To prevent changes to their data. It doesn't add any value to his service at all. Just theirs. How do people live with themselves.

Businesses hate chargebacks, they cost them money. If you're ever in dispute about a credit card charge and you've given a company a fair chance to resolve it just call your credit card provider and dispute the charge.

I've never used it, and had never even heard about it until my sister ran into problems with this small time driving school.

They essentially charged her twice by accident. Mistakes happen, but she was having a hell of a time getting them to fix it. My suspicion is given their size they probably already spent the money.. but they could have come clean with that and tried to work something out rather than dodging calls and having other people answer the phone with "I'm not familiar with this situation, but I'

Not sure about your experience, but someone frauded my card for an airline ticket, I challenged it, and the Visa/bank? operator said the purchase was made online without a CVV number and I never heard back about it. Probably if there's insufficient information for proper verification (like CVV/PIN/password entry for web purchases as an example) VISA/MC will side with consumer and business will eat the charge.

Even if the cahrge is approved, if the seller can't prove the buyer took posession, the buyer will win (had an ebay issue where the seller claimed he sent it and I didn't pay his "insurance" fee so it was lost). I approved the charge, but I didn't take possession of the purchased item, so the reverse was upheld.

We strongly encourage you to take advantage of this security program and register Certified Users before the program launch date...your credit card will be billed $1,850 for the first year of service on the date your program goes live

The email implies it's an opt out but, it's not clear to me that he'll actually be billed until he sets up the enhanced security. Regardless, I've avoided Network Solutions for a long, long time and would never consider doing business with them.

Yeah, I recently had two domains I was planning on letting expire get auto renewed for 5 years for a total of ~$380. I went to check and they were set for auto renewal (I don't remember requesting that.) When I went to turn auto renewal off it stated that I had to call. It was a big PITA but after 20-30 minutes talking to the nice guy in India (naturally) I had my money back and auto renewal turned off. They're hoping people are unattentive. Not too cool.

It's worth noting that this action (auto-enroll and bill) is illegal in Canada. Each province/territory has its own consumer protection act that requires explicit opt-in for any new services that are provided to existing customers, in writing. You cannot auto-enroll people and require them to opt-out to not be charged.

I am currently in the process of moving over 100 domains away from NetSol to Hover. I'd used NetSol since I started getting domains in the 90s, but it has changed from a trusted institution on the web into a scam. Everything is an up sell, and everything is designed to confuse you into buying things you don't need. One personal example. Last year I set up a client on a basic WordPress account, but later wanted to move the domain. They would not let us access the.db file until we upgraded the account. They wouldn't give us our own data!

So now I am going to through the multi-stage process of moving all these domains, waiting days for each authorization code. These guys are crooks, so stay the fuck away from ever doing business with them. And if you have domains there, run away!!!

Exactly what does enrolling a customer into an unwanted and ridiculously overpriced service has to do with shedding customers?! If the contract is over. Shed the customer. If the contract is not over. Keep up your end of the contract.

Unless of course they stated that they could do that, somewhere in the 300 pages of fine print that you have to sign to get service from anyone these days if you are an individual or small business. Then it's completely OK in your libertarian world. You read every word of every one of those, right?

Exactly what does enrolling a customer into an unwanted and ridiculously overpriced service has to do with shedding customers?! If the contract is over. Shed the customer. If the contract is not over. Keep up your end of the contract.

Most contracts have termination clauses. If they really wanted to shed a customer, they can just say "I'm sorry, we don't want to be your supplier any more" (and potentially pay a small penalty fee, if the contract says so).

Opting someone in to a paid-for service just seems to be inviting credit card chargebacks (and probably the loss of their merchant account). Furthermore, emailing people to tell them you've opted them in seems particularly unsafe since there's no way to know if that email address is st

Fraud would be charging without notice, and without offering an opt-out.

This isn't fraud, it's just a bad marketing strategy. It's also unlikely to work, since a lot of people will likely call their credit card companies and say "I didn't agree to that - reverse the charges."

You are free to start your own provider, and dig your own trench to the nearest CO.

Right, because I have a few billion dollars laying arund with which to challenge one of the largest companies in the world.And because I'm actually legally allowed to use the wires already in and leading to the house....oh wait, I'm not. And I'm not allowed to lay new ones.You know, there's a place where they have competition over telcos, and they did it by telling them they cant block competition from the wires. And they have both competition, better service, and better prices....through regulation. Imagin

The real solution for the "natural monopoly" is to have the infrastructure owned by the government, and providers buy service from there. It works great for mobile service in Europe (or did, until privatization took hold, and the assets were sold off below market, and the profits were lost and service got worse.

The real solution for the "natural monopoly" is to have the infrastructure owned by the government, and providers buy service from there. It works great for mobile service in Europe (or did, until privatization took hold, and the assets were sold off below market, and the profits were lost and service got worse.

It doesn't even have to be the government, rather it's an entity that has no commercial interests in the infrastructure they're providing. This can be done by making the wholesale provider a completely separate corporate entity from retail providers (and preventing the wholesale provider from being a retail provider).

A government service like a infrastructure provider can be corporatised and run on it's own $0 profit mandate without govt interference. They only have to make enough to meet costs (incl. expansion costs).

I guess I am spoiled. I grew up in Conservative Texas, where the communist TXU provided power, cheaper and more reliably than anywhere else in the US. Though power in TX went to shit when they privatized.

Same story with Australian states that went the same way. I'm in one of the lucky states where the power distribution utility was corpratised, so no longer under direct govt control but still has no profit motive. States that went for full privatisation ended up with horrible power bills.

Private companies that had capped profits is what brought us AT&T and the insurance industry.

Corpratised entities aren't technically private. They're more like non-profit organisations that have to provide a service. At the very worst, they have to turn over their profit to the government.

Well said! It's quite sad how people naturally distinguish the two. This is the second time we've faced such corporate entanglement in government, and the second time we've had the government more interested in the "spoils of victory" than governing, but it's the first time we have both at once. I really hope we can avoid the violence that accompanied the last cycle, as I doubt we have a Chester A. Arthur out there man enough to step up.

Well, in the normal course of the business cycle you'll get many competitors when times are good and then the poorly run ones fail, or get acquired in the bad times, leaving just a handful. But absent barriers to entry (yay regulatory capture!), there will be a new crowd when the economy comes full circle, and one of the new guys often displaces an older firm when the next culling comes.

That's the normal way it's supposed to happen, if not ruined by bailouts or other government selection of winners. Lots

In the U.S., it actually was in the 19th century. Quoted from Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:

A journey from Philadelphia to Charleston involved eight different gauges, which meant that passengers and freight had to change trains seven times.

It was the government (sic!) stepping in after the Civil War with the construction of the transcontinental railways which caused the different gauges to be harmonized to the U.S. gauge of 1448 mm, later to 1435 mm ("normal gauge").

Network Solutions has to operate within their role as a bleeding legacy domain name provider.

To anyone reading this who doesn't know, they used to be the sole provider of domain names in the world.

Most of their remaining clients are very large businesses who don't care if their domain renewal is $6 bucks or $35 bucks or $500 bucks.

They have to fight to survive in a way compatible with their mainstream client base --- big inept companies that didn't switch to a cheaper provider a decade ago like Godaddy or [insert your favorite low cost provider here].

Network Solutions has a client base similar to a company running COBOL or with mostly government agencies as clients. Sure their business practices suck, but they are little different than other legacy service providers --- you might ask why the blogger of the article has been overpaying for domain names for 15 years? He probably has flushed $700+ dollars down the toilet compared to what he could have saved with another domain registrar ages ago. But he didn't, he's been volunteering overpaying for quite a while now and that is your average "still with Network Solutions" customer. Network Solutions has been doing this for a decade now through inertia and now for survival. This doesn't make Network Solutions innocent -- they aren't --- but their customer base does consist of people largely willing to overpay, which is largely big faceless corporations --- I bet Blackberry prices gouges captive legacy clients and I bet so does IBM, EDS and Accenture and even Microsoft. It is just what happens to legacy service provider's customers.

This fellow should have switch a dozen years back if he was price shopping the market.

"Then they'll send you to a collections agent and have that appear on your credit report."

They'd better not. Unauthorized charges to cards are pretty damned illegal. In fact, I think that amount would qualify as felony fraud. Grand Larceny. (Hell, it should anyway. Sounds like larceny to me.)

Did you know it's ok if you type your credit card number information into slashdot? The site will replace the numbers with *'s. So you will see it as 1234 5678 9012 3456 exp 12/12 ccv 123, but everyone else here will just see it as **** **** **** **** exp **/** ccv ***. It's really cool that they do that, try it out sometime.