Leaked Ultima Forever Images?

This imgur account (now apparently deleted) was brought to my attention this morning…anonymously, of course. The images hosted there have since been removed, but I was able to grab them before that happened:

I guess this is the entrance to a shrine…

The Shrine of Spirituality

There’s not that much to actually say about the screenshots, since there’s no telling what the in-game context is. It looks like whoever uploaded these images was playing as the Fighter. And obviously, he or she is exploring the Shrine of Spirituality. Which, it must be said, looks positively gorgeous. The attention to detail in the floor artwork and the colour choice is also a nice touch on Mythic’s part.

Anyhow, make of these what you all will. We haven’t seen official screenshots of the game yet, but these unofficial ones do give a good idea of what the game looks like. Those hand-painted backgrounds look pretty awesome, don’t they?

Note: In case it wasn’t clear, these are screenshots from what is almost surely an alpha build of the game. It is probable that the finished product will look mostly the same, but it’s also probable that some refinements will be made.

I don’t think engine limitations prevent someone from making a hand painted void Ethereal Void background. Just seems like lore inconsistency, but if there’s still time for this to be addressed, I would hope. Pretty glaring.

This game is supposed to be based on Ultima IV, not UO. Therefore, the
Shrine of Spirituality should be in the void, only accessible via moongate when there’s twin full moons.

It’s meant to be outside of the world – a mystical location, consistent with the virtue of Spirituality thematically.

Eh, yes and no. Fact is, the engine for this game is totally unknown to us at present, as are its limitations. I’m dimly aware that, as designed, U4E does tax some of the limits of what the engine can handle, but I lack for specifics in that regard.

Jesus Christ how horrifying.
Joking aside, I might have some leaked info material with that:http://pastebin.com/Ls1096ue
Now this could be some stuff anybody could have written probably.
However it sounds far too fitting for my taste.

All I can say is that playing any game that is more complex than Tetris for only half an hour is…not enough to form a truly informed opinion. I can’t really explain why that is the case for Ultima Forever without stepping outside my NDA, but…in a way, the experience of playing U4E (as it is abbreviated) is is not unlike what my experience playing Dragon Age was. I ragequit Dragon Age: Origins twice during the origin/intro/tutorial mission, because I found it tedious and un-fun. But once I got past that point, the game had me hooked within fifteen minutes.

That’s not a perfect example; the first 30 minutes of U4E are much better (in my opinion) than the introduction to DAO. But the basic point is the same: judging the entire game as crap based on someone else’s limited exposure to its introduction is probably not a reasonable course of action. So: take it with a grain of salt, sign up for the beta, and when the game gets released…try it for yourself and form your own opinions.﻿

I don’t know… the way the conversations are described, the absolute silliness of the virtue system at least as this reviewer has put it forth… it all reeks of EA’s Ultima IX’s total lack of grasp of the basic core of Ultima.

And yeah… the art is pretty ugly. It looks like an unfinished speed painting instead of a finished product. Actually, I hope that’s what it is right now- an alpha version of a soon to be finished rendition, because it clashes horribly with the 3d model.

It’s worth noting too that the cross-platform nature of the game does require…less than the full power of what modern desktop graphics processors can deliver. The game has to play on an iPad as well as on a PC.

And the look…works. We can disagree on the painted backdrops (personally, I love them) but the lower detail of the character models makes sense…and, really, isn’t visually offensive. I would expect we’ll see some tuning of how the 2D and 3D blend by the time the game releases…but it doesn’t really look bad right now.

As a professional artist, those backgrounds look unfinished, honestly. They’re a mess as far as chiaroscuro goes, the range is extremely limited and the contrast of light and shadow is so bland that there’s absolutely no dramatic lighting, it looks pretty flat. And then there’s the level of detail- which is extremely low. Stones rendered with broad brush strokes and some little texture on them, but there’s no *rendering*, and by that I mean the process by which the artist takes a blocked section and adds infinitely smaller details. It’s the process that turns this: http://speed-painting.deviantart.com/art/Speedpainting-City-SP17-21221715 into this: http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=painting+city#/dw4q04 . That first image is where the background is right now. Those hand-painted backgrounds are mediocre at best. I hope they present us with something more finished by launch time.

EA didn’t HAVE to go the 3D route. It’s bad choice after bad choice. And let’s be honest… the moral quandaries that the reviewer’s shown so far? Come on. That’s atrocious writing.

And we’re going to have to disagree on the art style. Yes, it does look a bit more like the former link, and not much like the hyper-detailed latter link…but perhaps that’s the point?

The fact that the speed-painted image (scaled & cropped to 800×401) consumes only 83% of the drive space required by the detailed image (scaled to the same size) could also be relevant…the difference in the example given might only be 22 KB, but over 3G connection and with a larger backdrop, the difference could matter. Detail comes with a cost in asset file size, which needs to be heavily controlled in a mobile game.

I don’t think the game aims to have highly detailed art in any case – it’s obviously meant to be stylized. Here it give a nice, colored, painted feel. I think this works well for an Ultima game really.

The characters is arguably another matter, though I’d suggest we wait till we have pictures in motion.

You’re right there, Gilly, to a certain extent. Granted, if we limit our considerations to just those games which offer an open world experience and gorgeous 3D, the list of iPad games matching these criteria is a very small one.

And if we limit ourselves to 3D open world MMORPGs on the iPad, there’s only one example I can think of. And I honestly don’t know how well Order & Chaos Online works over a 3G connection…

My point was more that from the perspective of saving on bandwidth (always a nice thing, on mobile devices) and data usage, opting for 2D background assets make sense, and cater to the iPad’s needs very well indeed. The iPad certainly has the horsepower to run fully 3D games, but its mobile data connection is (in most areas) still going to be subject to some pretty harsh usage limits.

You mean Garriott’s Ultima IX ? I guess he didn’t grasps his own virtue either…

The way the dialogue is described, and based on the facebook posts from last week we can assume that the game basically offers situations similar to the character creation questions… but ingame. I don’t see how things could get more Ultima-ish than that personally and as a matter I feel this kind of choice has been sorely lacking in the original Ultima games. This is reminiscent of Ultima X, so this could be interesting.

I really wish I could get into more without breaking my NDA, but one thing I’ll say though : is that you can’t judge the game with just 30 minutes of playing. And really you can’t judge a game based on an alpha. And based on Moa’s reaction frankly, outside of the nerdrage of it all it feels to me like he played it like it was suppose to be a demo of the game as it will be, rather than an alpha (which means a rough and incomplete game).

That being said we’ll have to agree to disagree about the art shown here. I am admitedly not fond of the “bulky” look of the character, but I think the background art looks gorgeous especially for the kind of game it is.

I think that some time people should remove the rosy glasses of nostalgia…

Well, this is always going to be an obstacle, and it’s also something that is kind of inevitable. We were all much younger when Ultima 4 was new, and many of us were still at “impressionable” ages at that time.

Still, you raise a valid point in observing that gaming now is very different than it was nearly 30 years ago, and the audience of games likewise. To say nothing of how the technology has moved on. And our expectations, even as Ultima fans, do need to shift somewhat in response to that.

One thin about Ultima IV is that it seems to me a lot of people forget about how exactly the original game was.

Sure Ultima IV was revolutionnary by his virtue concept, it’s interactive dialogues and all… in the end though, you still spent most of the game going trhrough the lands and dungeons fighting tons of monsters.

And you farmed virtue points.

I don’t mean to diminish the game, but it seems many people limits Ultima to Ultima VII’s virtual world while the series offered a lot more than this.

What I’m saying is that perhaps that rather than looking at Ultima Forever and wondering how it feels compared to Ultima VII… we should instead focus on looking at how it plays as an updated Ultima IV.

I’m going to have to disagree, also as a professional artist, that the art looks good. Quibbling over whether you prefer realistic detail over more abstract brush virtuosity is a stylistic preference. And I think the painted look works rather well with the cartoony 3D characters. More realistic, dramatic lighting would not work at all.

It isn’t a matter of virtuosity, it’s a matter of presenting a finished product. Unless you’re trying to sell a game like Journey, abstract detail and manneristic/impressionistic graphics are something you do for the beta, not something you put in the finished product unless the aesthetics of the franchise call for it.
Now look at the character models.
Now look at the backgrounds.
That’s a visual aide to illustrate the meaning of incongruence. Gesamtkunstwerk- an integrated whole requires the removal of incongruence.

Not everyone shares your artistic temperament, it seems. And really, we are debating an art style here…that’s as subjective as they come.

Yes, some refinement may be needed to better blend the 3D models in the foreground with the aesthetic of the painted background. This is an alpha build we are looking at; it’s not necessarily surprising that some rough edges exist. We can’t state with certainty that the finished project will have that “incongruence” about it.

Also, what is “the aesthetics of the franchise”? Ultima began as something only a couple steps above a text adventure, and ended as a 3rd-person, 3D RPG. There have been oversaturated Ultimas, undersaturated Ultimas, and tonally balanced Ultimas. Ultima has done top-down, over-the-shoulder, first-person, and various isometric angles. This is not a franchise with any kind of consistent aesthetic to point to, and thus is open (by design!) to experimentation. The aesthetic does not make or break the game as an Ultima successor; the faithfulness to series lore will do that.

All that needs to happen here is a bit of smoothing of the edges of the 3D models, and there won’t be visual incongruence to point to. And then the game stands or falls, as an Ultima, on the lore.

I think most long-term Ultima fans will tend to instinctively view ANY new attempt at the franchise in a negative light. Sometimes (e.g. Lord of Ultima) that negativity is justified…but I don’t think it’s justified here. It’s easy for me to say that, of course, having actually seen and played the game. And no, you shouldn’t take my word for it, just as you shouldn’t take Moa’s word for it. Take your own word for it; play the game, form your opinion, and tell us about it.

But there it is, even so. I don’t think the negativity is justified.

And it’s worth noting that if Moa is correct in describing interactions with NPCs that affect your rank in the various Virtues, well…that’s what Ultima 4 attempted to do (but only somewhat), and is also substantially more than either Ultima 7 or my beloved Ultima 6 ever did with the Virtues. His complaints about the early realization of those systems nonwithstanding, the fact that they’re attempting to incorporate the Virtues to that level is actually a really good sign.﻿

To be honest, my negativity is based on the track record of EA, and Bioware-as-owned-by-EA. I’m coming in expecting the usual result from these people. I HOPE I am proven completely and absolutely wrong (at which point I will be this game’s hugest fan)- but you have to admit that I can’t come in a wide-eyed and bushy-tailed optimist. It’s all about the source, and basically EA and Bioware/EA/Mythic have a lot of past they have to prove wrong.

I think the one comment from lead designer Kate Flack that’s salient, relevant, and good is that this game is meant to be the tip of the spear for bringing Ultima back.

That sounds weird to guys like us who followed the series for decades and know it from our youths, but what is the public significance of Ultima today? It commands tons of respect in the industry, sure…but it EXISTS only as an MMORPG with a small subscriber base (200,000 at the very most, likely a lot less). The last published single-player Ultima came out 13 years ago. That’s a long time by any reckoning, but especially in the gaming industry. Ultima still commands respect from industry professionals and lifelong fans, but to the average gamer of today it actually isn’t as relevant.

And marketing Ultima to those sorts of people isn’t something…you can’t just slam them with the full Ultima experience, good as it may be. The same is true of the typical BioWare audience. That’s not to say they couldn’t come to love the full Ultima experience, and it’s not to say that the full Ultima experience can’t make a triumphal comeback…but it is to say that such things can’t happen overnight.

It’s like feeding a starving person: you don’t just sit him down in front of the full buffet first thing; you give him a light snack to get his body used to real food again. Then, once he recovers a bit, you can give him the bigger portions. Incrementally.

So maybe this game is a stepping stone to more Ultima. If U4E succeeds, maybe we get a U5E that doubles down on the RPG elements we love.

Ultima was also about pushing boundaries and the game will already do this by being cross-platform between a PC and a “mobile” device. If it also pushes the boundaries of thought within the casual gamer crowd, then it is definitely keeping in the Ultima spirit.

If the examples were true, I would have reacted the same way for some of it like the “Sword of Compassion” and the random chests in dungeons which contain items owned by someone else. (The first one I will definitely report as a “bug”, however they define it; the second one I’ll just laugh hard, sometimes we do need silliness, if you know what I mean.)

But personally, that’s the point of the NDA and testing (especially alpha testing), to iron out the game, give feedback, etc. I can easily say that the “Sword of Compassion” was a placeholder, it’s something that can be _corrected_ later on once the much more important stuff has been ironed out.

Now if that gets out in the release version, then it will be my favourite sword evar! :p (Hmm… selling Flute of Valour…)

The art looks nice enough, bit smudged perhaps. The PC is carrying a ridiculously large sword though. Or at least I guess it is a sword, right?

Interface is looking very usable for a touchscreen. Attacks/spells at the bottom, healing potions on the top left, and inventory, equipments and other such links at the top. Haven’t played any games on a touch screen, but this looks promising. Or it might be I’m just looking forward to a new Ultima game…

Looks fine to me. The only “incongruence” I can see is the aliasing around the 3D model. Other than that, the style and palette between 2D and 3D are consistent.

Obviously the game’s not finished, but from the review it sounds like Mythic’s intention is to add a sense of humor to the game. Sword of Compassion and all that. Personally, I think the Red Hot Poker of Compassion would have been more appropriate, but it’s not my game. Anyway, humor is fine as long as it’s balanced by seriousness. Like a good action movie, you need well-paced swings between two extremes to be effective.

Haven’t played the game, so as usual my two cents are worth about one.

I think you’re on to something Sanctimonia. The screen likely doesn’t has any for of aliasing. I’m thinking once you add aliasing and possibly higher resolutions, this will go along way to make the 3D models and 2D backgrounds blend better.

Regarding the humor…. I think some people forget that… well, Ultima is not the Witcher and has never aimed at some sort of realistic gritty universe. Ultima was filled with silly humor and quirkyness. Do I need to remind people of the USS Serpent’s Hold in Ultima VII? And eck the Ultima iV even had Short Round looking for indy…

Don’t forget the Hoe of Destruction from Ultima VII. Or Hotel California from I? II? I just hope this isn’t the beginning of some crazy developer flame war between Mythic and Garriott. It’s almost like someone banging your ex-wife and posting the photos on the Internet. You new wife may be just as hot (or hotter), but you’re still going to be annoyed.

I’m a hobbyist digital painter and can see the detail, particularly in the light is rather simple, not particularly textured and a bit blocked out.

However, I’ve also done quite a bit of game designing, and if I had a choice between a large scale speed paint with a lot of variety and less repetition in design with this level of detail, and a more repetitive design which was highly detailed, I would choose this art style.

Britannia and most RPGs are enormous in content and I would imagine trying to make less repetitive art on this scale requires many man hours in painting. Being a free to play game (with micro-transactions), I can’t imagine this team is overflowing with numerous highly paid artists, and while I’d appreciate they give it their best effort, expecting every nook and cranny of an enormous rpg to be up to par with a static, non playable concept art painting while still being suitable for game play purposes is likely being unreasonable.

I must admit like most everyone else, I’m not much of a fan of the character design. They don’t give me an Ultima vibe and are rather bulky. I hate to jump on the WoW bandwagon, but I don’t really have a better description. I can tolerate them. If the game is good, I could play with 8 bit graphics.

I really hope they can make something good of this franchise and there isn’t too much cynical overall in it’s development. I wonder how much of this project was decided by the higher ups as a jab to beat Garriot to the punch ‘just in case.’ The timing and business model are remarkably suspect. I suppose regardless, so long as the people actually working on it are passionate… Good luck.

Even if they screw it up, I think it’s fair to say that Utlima fans are some of the most competent and diligent fans around. This series has a lot to offer, one way or another.

I doubt this is in any way related to Garriott’s aims. The first we heard of Ultima Forever was almost two years ago (that came with that EA Louse rant in October 2010, which mean Barnett was likely working interally on this project at least a few month before that), which AFAIK is anterio to Garriott even mentionning his New Britannia concept. So I don’t think it came from wanting to beat Garriott to the punch.

UltimaForever.com was registered in March of 2010 (a bit of history), and there were BioWare Mythic employees working on an unannounced project that turned out to be Ultima Forever from around at least February or March of 2010, possibly earlier, including the Associate Producer and Lead Designer.

It was well before Garriott started making waves and talking about what he was going to do as far as what became Ultimate Collector and what will become Ultimate RPG. I think he mentioned having talks with EA sometime in 2011, which was well after Ultima Forever started. In September of 2011, he mentioned that he had some “high level” talks, but that EA blew him off. In December of 2011, he told Eurogamer.net that he was still in current talks with EA.

Even if he had talked to them at the beginning of 2011, that would mean Ultima Forever had been in production for at least 7 months.

I’m actually wondering if Ultima Forever isn’t the reason EA blew him off. I’d have a hard time believing there wouldn’t have been at least some glimmer of interest about the idea of reworking on an Ultima with Garriott (I take it as face value when Garriott says he has contact at EA who could like that).

I’m thinking under other circunstances, perhaps some deal could have mean, like there apparently have with Chris Roberts and Wing Commaneder. But since they allready had an Ultima game in the works…

There’s a good recap of the project history in an older new from WC CIC (http://www.wcnews.com/news/update/10817)
It looks like the first mention of the facebook Ultima game was as early as october 2010 with RG reacting only April of the next year, a few weeks after the first image of the map was leaked.

Hmm, the shrine of spirituality does belong in a void. I always felt like it was somewhat symbolic. Drawing a void around a shrine can’t be that hard. All it is, is blackness and stars…

Seeing the screenshots and reading the little review thingy. I dunno, it’s sad, to know I’m not in the target demographic anymore. But if’s nice to know the legacy goes on. If I like the old Ultima games so much, I might as well play -them-, right?

Correct me if I’m mistaken but, Lord British, Britain, The Brittany’s, Britannia, the runic alphabet, magic system, the dialogue style, the npc character names, the little pictures in the guidebooks resembling those found from the vikings. I dunno, it all seemed to me very Anglo-Saxon and viking oriented. In fact, I felt more like a viking in Ultima 4 than some sort of magical hero savior guy.

Given Ultima is so heavily influenced by Nordic med-evil traditions and culture, I think the background fits nicely with the tradition.

And given the interview with Flak and Barnett… holy shit, I didn’t know they were British! Rock on! No one should know Nordic and Anglo customs better than the Brits!

Although, I would’ve liked to see the Avatar in a CAPE in the screen shot… beggars can’t be choosers.

So what, it’s not geared towards my demographic? Honestly, I haven’t played a game in years that actually was.

I don’t like the art style. The cartoon style gives the impression of a light-hearted and fun action/rpg game which has already been overdone by Torchlight and games before it. I miss the serious Diablo, Titan Quest, Ultima Online (to a lesser extent) style that looked much more “real”. Of course, this style may fit the game, but I’ll be surprised if the game lives up to the Ultima name.

Light-hearted is okay, though. With the exception of U8 and U5, most of the Avatar Ultimas have had their bits of levity, and some (e.g. U6) also opted for a more saturated, cartoony look.

But that’s just history. Different art styles appeal to — or don’t appeal to — different people. I prefer Reckoning to Skyrim in no small part because Reckoning is ferociously colorful whereas Skyrim is muted and desaturated.

But yes: if you’re looking for a harder-core, tonally dead-serious RPG, this won’t be it. Neither will this be a featherweight fluffy RPG. It’ll fall somewhere in the middle. Will it measure up to other Ultimas? It will and it won’t; depends which one you compare it to.

In the end, it’ll be a free-to-play title, and in fact will be completeable for free. Thus, trying it out in order to render an objective judgement will cost you nothing, and I’d encourage you to do just that.