WWI Digest 823
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings
by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
2) Re: Aurora's accuracy
by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
3) Latest FSM
by mbittner@juno.com
4) Re: Aurora's accuracy
by KarrArt
5) Re: Latest FSM
by KarrArt
6) Morane-Saulnier J ?
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
7) Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings
by "Charles/Linda Duckworth "
8) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
by Charles Hart
9) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
by Charles Hart
10) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
by mbittner@juno.com
11) Red Air Fighter
by Graham Nash
12) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
by Kenneth Hagerup
13) Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
by "Gerald P. McOsker"
14) Re: Aurora's accuracy
by Matthew Zivich
15) WWI Aircraft Industry
by Matthew Zivich
16) 1.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU
by Dave Watts
17) Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars
by KarrArt
18) Re: Aurora's accuracy
by Riordan and Michelle Goodwin
19) Re: Finding Sites (For OOP books)
by bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:04:54 -0500
From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings
Message-ID: <199712290204.VAA15997@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
At 12:14 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Charles/Linda Duckworth wrote:
>I've looked through a couple sources and can't seem to find what the colors
>would be for Gontermann's Albatros D-III in March 1917 when he was with
>Jasta 5.
>
>Any help (guesses, opinions or SWAG's) would be appreciated, Charlie
Don't know how accurate they were, but there was an article in Aviation
History awhile ago that had a lot of pictures...some in color. I don't have
the issue off hand, but you might be able to find it on their web site.
Meanwhile, I'll see if I cut out the article.
Mike Muth
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:31:07 -0500
From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy
Message-ID: <199712290231.VAA16087@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
At 01:39 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Matthew Zivich wrote:
>I just settled for rounding off the
>tips of the low. wing in the Pfalz kit. But it did cross my mind to use
>other craft's wings, such as the Jny, for conversions of another kind.
>I'm still looking for an easy conversion of wings for an Alb. D-II as
>some other members are doing. I'm trying to think of that old saying
>something like "Laziness is the Mother of Invention"...or some such thing.
Matt
Although I never tried it, I thought that the SMER Spad-7 wings might be a
good starting point.
Mike Muth
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:15:29 -0600
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Latest FSM
Message-ID: <19971228.211530.4550.0.mbittner@juno.com>
The latest FSM came in, and although the WW1 content is slight, I want to
say "Great Job" to Robert on his BE2. Beautiful, albeit a bit big. :-)
Seriously, great job, Robert.
Plus, the next issue will deal with WW1 lozenge. I wonder who did this,
and just how good it is? Was the list consulted? Who knows, I guess
we'll find out next month.
Also, watch for an article on the folks here in our local club. :-)
Matt Bittner
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:17:18 EST
From: KarrArt
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy
Message-ID:
In a message dated 97-12-28 21:30:50 EST, you write:
<< Although I never tried it, I thought that the SMER Spad-7 wings might be a
good starting point.
Mike Muth >>
One thing I'm going to get around to in the new year (NOT a resolution- I
don't do those) is make set of notes that show what wings can be substituted
for others.I like scratch building but I hate making wings!There are several
cases where the match is almost perfect- but I never write these things down.
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:25:42 EST
From: KarrArt
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Latest FSM
Message-ID: <7050506f.34a71838@aol.com>
In a message dated 97-12-28 22:18:04 EST, you write:
<< The latest FSM came in, and although the WW1 content is slight, I want to
say "Great Job" to Robert on his BE2. Beautiful, albeit a bit big. :-)
Seriously, great job, Robert.
Plus, the next issue will deal with WW1 lozenge. I wonder who did this,
and just how good it is? Was the list consulted? Who knows, I guess
we'll find out next month.
Also, watch for an article on the folks here in our local club. :-)
Matt Bittner >>
Thank you very much! That came out of nowhere- I'd forgotten that I'd even
submitted the thing.
Yeah- anybody out there on the list know anything about the upcoming FSM
lozenge piece? Any secret collaborators? FSM has done couple of articles
dealing with lozenge but it's been many years.
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 20:52:02 -0800
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID: <199712290452.AA14568@ednet1.orednet.org>
Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from
a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"?
Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what
is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't
list a "J".
General impressions? Is this one worth while trying
to hunt down?
Cheers and all,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
"All generalizations are dangerous, even this one."
Alexandre Dumas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 23:11:51 -0800
From: "Charles/Linda Duckworth "
To:
Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings
Message-ID: <199712290511.XAA20062@mail.primary.net>
Mike, appreciate the assistance, Charlie
----------
> From: Mary-Ann/Michael
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Subject: Re: Gontermann's Jasta 5 Markings
> Date: Sunday, December 28, 1997 6:05 PM
>
> At 12:14 PM 12/28/97 -0500, Charles/Linda Duckworth wrote:
> >I've looked through a couple sources and can't seem to find what the
colors
> >would be for Gontermann's Albatros D-III in March 1917 when he was with
> >Jasta 5.
> >
> >Any help (guesses, opinions or SWAG's) would be appreciated, Charlie
> Don't know how accurate they were, but there was an article in Aviation
> History awhile ago that had a lot of pictures...some in color. I don't
have
> the issue off hand, but you might be able to find it on their web site.
> Meanwhile, I'll see if I cut out the article.
> Mike Muth
>
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:30:46 -0700
From: Charles Hart
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID:
>Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from
>a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
>this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what
>is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't
>list a "J".
>
>General impressions? Is this one worth while trying
>to hunt down?
>
>
>Cheers and all,
>
>
>
>--
> Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
I have this kit. It is indeed a Morane Saulnier Type I. These are
hard to find but are worth seeking out. It looks as though it will build
up into a nice model. To read a review of this kit surf on over to:
http://www.cris.com/~Rojo1/tiemens.html
Charles
hartc@spot.colorado.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:44:37 -0700
From: Charles Hart
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID:
>Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from
>a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
>this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what
>is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't
>list a "J".
>
>General impressions? Is this one worth while trying
>to hunt down?
>
>
>Cheers and all,
>
>
>
>--
> Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
Related to the above, I found the following e-mail message in my archive.
Charles
hartc@spot.colorado.edu
<<<<>>>>>>
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 1997 00:55:57 -0400
Reply-To: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Originator: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Sender: wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu
Precedence: bulk
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: New Morane-Saulnier kit?
X-Comment: WWI Modeling Discussion List
Status:
The following ad appears in this month's edition of KCC:
Sell: 1/72 Marane-Saulnier "I" injection-molded and very accurate
bagged kit w/o decals but with excellent instructions. Can also be
built as the "N" model. $6.90 + pp. Joeseph Francesco, 19 Valley
View Road, Verona, NJ 07044. 201-239-7682.
I know nothing about this kit or Mr. Francesco and am just passing
the information along. Still, if you are into teeny-tiny scale
French aircraft, you can hardly go far wrong for the price.
Cheers,
--
Bill Shatzer - bshatzer@orednet.org
<<<<>>>>>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 04:32:10 -0600
From: mbittner@juno.com
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID: <19971229.043211.4294.1.mbittner@juno.com>
On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:00:00 -0500 bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
writes:
>Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from
>a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
>this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what
>is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't
>list a "J".
>
>General impressions? Is this one worth while trying
>to hunt down?
As Charles has said, this is a "must have" kit, especially if you build
1/72nd. Although it's not as simple as everyone makes it out to be, it
can be made into a Type N, a lot easier than the Revell Type N can.
Hopefully, one that I will get to in the New Year. Yea, right...;-)
Matt Bittner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:32:57 -0800
From: Graham Nash
To: wwi
Subject: Red Air Fighter
Message-ID: <199712291223.AA03696@egate2.citicorp.com>
Yes, I know it's MvR again, but I thought I'd let you know that
http://www.wtj.com
is 'serialising' 'The Red Air Fighter' in a similar manner to their
'Fighting the Flying Circus'.
Enjoy (or not)!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 07:27:14 -0600
From: Kenneth Hagerup
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID: <34A7A532.4FF8@prodigy.net>
> >Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
> >this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit? If not, what
> >is it? - my "French Aircraft of the First World War" doesn't
> >list a "J".
> >
> >General impressions? Is this one worth while trying
> >to hunt down?
I got my last two Type Is from NKR Models of Australia. The price was
A$5 less 20% sales tax, times the .65 Austalian-US exchange rate. At
less than $3.00 US, these have to be the best WWI bargain. The kits I
got from NKR also came with a set of Propagateam decals, much nicer than
the completely unusable ones in the kit I got in the US. NKR Models are
on the web. I don't remember the URL, but there is a link at mt site at
http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/4992 .
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 12:57:29 -0400
From: "Gerald P. McOsker"
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Morane-Saulnier J ?
Message-ID:
Bill inquires-
Anyone seen the purported 1/72 Morane Saulnier "J" kit from
>a Belarus manufacturer called "TEMSKE"?
>
>Can anyone confirm that the "J" is a misprint and that
>this is really a Morane-Saulnier "I" kit?
I have it in front of me- the heading seems to make it a J but think that
is a stylized Cyrillic I- In fct in the text of the note it refers to the
Morane-I-
Nice molding- no decals- I'll leave it to M. Bittner our resident Morane maven-
Cheers
Gerry
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:22:12 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Zivich
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy
Message-ID:
On Sun, 28 Dec 1997, Riordan and Michelle Goodwin wrote:
> Matthew Zivich wrote:
>
> > > I just "corrected" the aforementioned wing fairing on a (Glencoe/ Aurora) Pfalz D-III into a D-IIIa.
>
> Ah, but did you also tweak the nose and replace the empennage a la
> Rimell?
If you meant flatten the spinner's tip, well, no I didn't. I've noticed
in alot of pictures of Pfalz D-III's some have the vented spinner while
others don't. And yes, I enlarged the elevator plane and shortened the
compression/axle plane but kept the same width. I also resculpted the
rudder to represent a canvas covered plane. Finally I added three vent
holes to the forward top engine cowling, & vent blisters on nose port &
starboard sides. Also redid the exhaust & engine & added more side cowling.
Some of this may not be entirely "kosher", but I wanted my D-IIIa to be
as different as possible from my old Aurora D-III which by the way,
underwent some changes of its own: buried guns in fuselage, rudder to top
elevator struts, vent blisters, etc. In above comments I don't know if
you meant the spinner or the fuselage nose itself, but in any case the
Glencoe spin/prop was a disaster..worthless. I ended up using a spinner
from a 1/72 Airfix Alb. DV which worked out perfectly.
Matt Z
> > Riordan > -- >
---------------------------------------
> This e-mail has been brought to you by
> - Riordan and Michelle Goodwin -
> *****************************
> Great Holiday Gift Ideas at
> Jewels of the Silk Road
> http://www.silkroadjewels.com
> *****************************
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:34:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Zivich
To: wwi
Cc: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: WWI Aircraft Industry
Message-ID:
Are there any members who have become aware of the technical
developments of the German aircraft industry, in particular,
during WWI and the subsequent influences upon the postwar commercial
design industry as espoused by the leading exponents of the
Bauhaus, Marcel Breuer and Walter Gropius?
I couldn't help but make some associations between the two
subjects as I became more and more familiar with such techniques as
welded steel rods as in Fokkers, and formed plywood as in Albatroses. Not
to mention stretched canvas over metal rods as one might see in some
furniture design from the postwar period.
If the sequence of influence was so, war industry to Bauhaus
design, it would be an interesting turn around. We are already familiar
with the purported influence of the French Post-Impressionist,
Georges Seurat's Pointillism (Divisionism in UK) upon lozenge camouflage.
Matthew Z
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:49:01 -0500
From: Dave Watts
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: 1.M.G. 08/15 SPANDAU
Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19971229164901.007d3100@192.168.0.5>
I am working on an article on the development and production of the 08 and
08/15 SPANDAUS. I have observed over 50 examples, but need to know if
anyone has access to make observations of a example. If anyone wants
detailed information on the guns, (much more than the mini data file on
Spandau), contact me. By the way, I have some insights on the guns that
were mounted on the "Red Baron's" Dr.I, on that fatefull day in April, 1918.
Happy Hoidays,
Dave Watts
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 16:45:30 EST
From: KarrArt
To: wwi
Subject: Re: New Thread/WWI Calendars
Message-ID: <1aec91df.34a819fc@aol.com>
In a message dated 97-12-28 10:33:34 EST, you write:
<< WWI airplane calendar. A few WWII Warbird and a "Biplanes" one. but
nothing for WWI aviation. I haven't seen one anywhere except for one year
when a friend of mine got me one from the museum in San Diego. Anyone know
of any??? Are we missing an opportunity???
Mike Muth >>
Geez, I wish. The old C&C U.S.A. put out a calender for a couple of years-
this was WAY back. I didn't know the San Diego Museum had done one.
If I ever stumble across a few thousand spare dollars I'll do my own!
Robert
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 14:53:45 -0800
From: Riordan and Michelle Goodwin
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Aurora's accuracy
Message-ID: <34A829F9.644E@ricochet.net>
Matthew Zivich wrote:
the fuselage nose itself
Rimell wrote a comprehensive article on correcting the Aurora kit in the
'70s, and he noted the lower fuselage nose is too deep, and so removed
1/16" from both lower mating surface before joining to alter the
profile.
>but in any case the Glencoe spin/prop was a disaster..worthless. I ended up using a spinner from a 1/72 Airfix Alb. DV which worked out perfectly.
After trying the spinner from a Heller Bf-109B, I ended up using the tip
of a drop tank from a Revell 1/32 Harrier. Still haven't finished my
Pfalz.
Good luck,
Riordan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 19:41:28 -0500
From: bucky@mail.ptd.net (Mary-Ann/Michael)
To: wwi, Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Finding Sites (For OOP books)
Message-ID: <199712300041.TAA18452@pease1.sr.unh.edu>
At 04:35 AM 12/12/97 -0500, Graham Nash wrote:
>A recent missive from Sandy, revealed a web-site with a number of quite
>rare WW1 aviation books for sale.
>
>Given the state of the various Web seachers (poor-imho) would the list
>members be kind enough to send details of useful sites they have located
>in their Web travels?
Graham
I ordered one of the Biggles books from this guy. He took cc and
arranged for the book to be sent from Scotland. I got it 5 days after I
ordered it. His letterhead says he specializes in "materials by and about
T.E. Lawrence."
Denis McDonnell, Bookseller : http://www.denismcd.com
Fax: 717-253-6786
e-mail: dmd@ptd.net
HTH
Mike Muth
------------------------------
End of WWI Digest 823
*********************