If you want something said, ask a man; if you want something done, ask a woman.13 October 1925 – 8 April 2013

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction. What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One. If this single thing is recollected and made much, it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: PañhamavaggaVSMVMMWBBTBHTWTBTMy Page

"Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher has died, her spokeswoman has said." (BBC)

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During one of my visits to Wat Buddhapadipa, three young English visitors seemed anxious to understand the “position” of Margaret Thatcher in the temple’s murals. They believed her location in Chalermchai’s scene of the Three Worlds to be a bit high. I noted that Thatcher was, after all, prime minister at the time the murals were painted, from 1984–1992. Sitting in front of a cottage, she serenely overlooks “hell” (Plate 31). One fellow immediately responded with a question, "Why had the artists not painted Thatcher in hell?" Another Englishman, a longtime temple supporter and devout Buddhist who stood with us, replied that we are not to judge but instead to observe and reflect upon these issues of position.

Situated in Wimbledon, the Buddhapadipa temple was the first Thai Buddhist temple to be built in the UK. Inside the temple hall, the walls are covered with paintings showing the life of the Buddha—from his birth to his death. The murals were painted by artists Chalermchai Kositpipat and Panya Vijinthanasarn in a surreal style using brilliant colors that, at first glance, seems very unlike classical Thai painting. However, they revive the tendency found in traditional Thai mural paintings to situate episodes from Buddhist myth in scenes populated with figures and objects from contemporary life. The murals were started in the 1980s, and among the many figures in the scenes are portraits of Mother Theresa and Margaret Thatcher, as well as the temple's patrons and the artists themselves.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wat_Buddhapadipa

A rather nasty and divisive individual who, while cozying up to the apartheid leaders of South Africa, called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, and this is not to mention the domestic policies that harmed the poor of Britian and her inflammatory policies in Northern Ireland and on and on.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

tiltbillings wrote:A rather nasty and divisive individual who, while cozying up to the apartheid leaders of South Africa, called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, and this is not to mention the domestic policies that harmed the poor of Britian and her inflammatory policies in Northern Ireland and on and on.

Thanks.. I've been biting my tongue. As genkaku used to say "Silence is golden - and sometimes it's just plain yellow"

I remember Ajahn Sumedho speaking about Mrs. Thatcher on several occasions. He said that she was the sort of person that some people claimed to be unable or unwilling to feel metta towards. But he gently urged them to try. Here is what he said when she was still Prime Minister:

Metta is something we can spread every day: sending goodwill to the government, to Mrs. Thatcher, to the Members of Parliament, House of Commons, House of Lords; willing good to them so that as we approach each other with goodwill, then all the fears and anxieties and threats diminish. If we just look at Mrs. Thatcher with a critical eye and hate her because she doesn’t agree with our views, and want to get rid of her, and complain, then of course she reacts very strongly to that kind of treatment. Just as if I just criticise you and pick away at you all the time, then what happens? You dig in your heels and become more stubborn; unless you’re really mindful, you become more difficult. Because even if I’m right about it – even if you are doing things wrong – if I’m always on your back nagging away at you, it’s not providing you with any kind of opportunity to rise up to a situation. All you’re doing is feeling worse and worse, and then your rebelliousness is just a reaction, so you might do even worse things just to spite me! This tendency to dwell endlessly on what’s wrong and blame others, creates the very conditions for the increasing of misery.

Sam Vara wrote:I remember Ajahn Sumedho speaking about Mrs. Thatcher on several occasions. He said that she was the sort of person that some people claimed to be unable or unwilling to feel metta towards. But he gently urged them to try. Here is what he said when she was still Prime Minister:

Metta is something we can spread every day: sending goodwill to the government, to Mrs. Thatcher, to the Members of Parliament, House of Commons, House of Lords; willing good to them so that as we approach each other with goodwill, then all the fears and anxieties and threats diminish. If we just look at Mrs. Thatcher with a critical eye and hate her because she doesn’t agree with our views, and want to get rid of her, and complain, then of course she reacts very strongly to that kind of treatment. Just as if I just criticise you and pick away at you all the time, then what happens? You dig in your heels and become more stubborn; unless you’re really mindful, you become more difficult. Because even if I’m right about it – even if you are doing things wrong – if I’m always on your back nagging away at you, it’s not providing you with any kind of opportunity to rise up to a situation. All you’re doing is feeling worse and worse, and then your rebelliousness is just a reaction, so you might do even worse things just to spite me! This tendency to dwell endlessly on what’s wrong and blame others, creates the very conditions for the increasing of misery.

That is all very nice and all very true what Ven Sumedho had to say, but we still need to be honest about what this person, while wielding a great deal of power, did, the significant harm she caused.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.People live in one another’s shelter.

James the Giant wrote:Farewell Margaret, may you reap what you sowed, whether that be good or ill.

Oh, gawd. Even I could not wish that upon her.

If people do evil in this life, I don't believe they deserve a free pass simply by virtue of becoming dead. I think it's important for society to speak out against evil (live or dead) so that it is known that evil will not be tolerated... whether it's war criminals, paedos, oppressors, murderers, or whatever.

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

Perhaps members could state particulars about which of Baroness Thatchers' legislation and policies they disagreed with, and why - rather than writing disparaging remarks with no supporting substance.

With metta,Chris

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Morrissey's open letter wrote:"Thatcher is remembered as The Iron Lady only because she possessed completely negative traits such as persistent stubbornness and a determined refusal to listen to others.

Every move she made was charged by negativity; she destroyed the British manufacturing industry, she hated the miners, she hated the arts, she hated the Irish Freedom Fighters and allowed them to die, she hated the English poor and did nothing at all to help them, she hated Greenpeace and environmental protectionists, she was the only European political leader who opposed a ban on the ivory trade, she had no wit and no warmth and even her own cabinet booted her out. She gave the order to blow up The Belgrano even though it was outside of the Malvinas Exclusion Zone—and was sailing AWAY from the islands! When the young Argentinean boys aboard The Belgrano had suffered a most appalling and unjust death, Thatcher gave the thumbs-up sign for the British press.

Iron? No. Barbaric? Yes. She hated feminists even though it was largely due to the progression of the women's movement that the British people allowed themselves to accept that a prime minister could actually be female. But because of Thatcher, there will never again be another woman in power in British politics, and rather than opening that particular door for other women, she closed it.

Thatcher will only be fondly remembered by sentimentalists who did not suffer under her leadership, but the majority of British working people have forgotten her already, and the people of Argentina will be celebrating her death. As a matter of recorded fact, Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity."

Metta,Retro.

If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding: Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)

Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7

tiltbillings wrote:A rather nasty and divisive individual who, while cozying up to the apartheid leaders of South Africa, called Nelson Mandela a terrorist, and this is not to mention the domestic policies that harmed the poor of Britian and her inflammatory policies in Northern Ireland and on and on.

Thanks.. I've been biting my tongue. As genkaku used to say "Silence is golden - and sometimes it's just plain yellow"

What happend to Genkaku? He used to post here there and everywhere. Haven't seen him in years. I bought his book, it was a wonderful read.

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Perhaps members could state particulars about which of Baroness Thatchers' legislation and policies they disagreed with, and why - rather than writing disparaging remarks with no supporting substance.

With metta,Chris

__________In the course of our travels in Samsara, we have all likely done our fair share of bad, as well as good. Thatcher will have to experience the results of her kamma, just as we do now, and will again in the future. While it's true that many of the actions & policies she instigated during her time in power were clearly wrong and ought to be censured, there's no point in us judging her personally - unless we ourselves are completely free of ever having done anything wrong before - which is highly unlikely.

manas wrote:__________In the course of our travels in Samsara, we have all likely done our fair share of bad, as well as good. Thatcher will have to experience the results of her kamma, just as we do now, and will again in the future. While it's true that many of the actions & policies she instigated during her time in power were clearly wrong and ought to be censured, there's no point in us judging her personally - unless we ourselves are completely free of ever having done anything wrong before - which is highly unlikely.

MichaelThe thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

manas wrote:While it's true that many of the actions & policies she instigated during her time in power were clearly wrong and ought to be censured, there's no point in us judging her personally

Ah, but you just did, and rather neatly.

Tilt, don't you make any distinction between her (as a poor ignorant wandering being), and her actions? That's what I was getting at. I meant, that while I do not approve of many actions she undertook during her lifetime, that nevertheless I feel sorry for her now, having to experience the results of those actions. The 'hate the sin, but not the sinner' notion. But yeah I see your point.