battledome wrote:I think it depends. Some people start out middle class... and then they become climbers and drop a socio-economic rung or two.

Haha! That's totally me. I lost all ambition to climb the corporate ladder when I found such a great way to spend my free time. And the "work hard retire early" path seemed to contain a lot of potholes...

Among the guys I climb with there is a huge diversity of incomes and it has no correlation with their ability. Mike is a pediatiric intensive care doc ond easily walks up 5.12 trad climbs (and should be climbing trad in the mid .13's but hasn't really tried yet). Matt is not quite as strong but is bold and recently led his first 5.13 trad route and lays up fiberglass for a company making windmills. Josh is a fireman and has about the same ability as I do, Kyle is a school teacher and has led plenty of 5.13R trad routes. I'm a PhD chemist. Huge diversity.... and that is what is cool about climbing.

To be honest, while I can someone dirtbagging as a sport or even trad climber, alpine climbing is much more gear-intensive (a good -20 deg bag = rack + rope), and difficult alpine-style climbs totally trashes gear.

I'm already dumping my income straight into gear, and I'm not sure I'd be able to do any alpine if I were to end up flipping burgers.

Just my guess that high disposable income is more of a factor (a requiste) for activities like high altitude mountaineering. I imagine Himalayan outings cost a pretty penny, not only in terms of out-of-pocket for travel and gear, but also the equivalent in time; unless you're in the renown/elite class where you have sponsors.

kheegster wrote:To be honest, while I can someone dirtbagging as a sport or even trad climber, alpine climbing is much more gear-intensive (a good -20 deg bag = rack + rope), and difficult alpine-style climbs totally trashes gear.

I'm already dumping my income straight into gear, and I'm not sure I'd be able to do any alpine if I were to end up flipping burgers.

True, you just have to be smart about that...I see way too many of you buying expensive gear that the industry produces for one purpose....to sell to the wealthier "big mountain" trekkers because they want the absolute best and can afford it....most of it really is not going to make you any better of a climber or your expedition go any smoother....i.e. ArcTeryx clothing, expensive plastics and/or the latest tools (if you are only climbing WI 4 anyway?)...if you want to climb hard, I expect you to rip your clothes and outerwear to threads, no matter who makes it. Be smart about paying reasonable prices for it. So many folks are geared up way beyond their level or what they need. Just an observation. The more you spend, the better for me, but there at better things in life to spend your hard earned money on.

Eric Beck, part of the Camp 4 crew in the 60s and who had mastered the art of dirtbagging, once famously wrote that: "At either end of the social spectrum lies a leisure class." I'd say that pretty much sum up alot of climbers.

Most climbers I know are either living hand to mouth for climbing or have a fairly comfortable or disposible income they can spend for that purpose. The folks I climbed with long ago, for example, typically fall into two camps: they frittered around professionally but devoted the bulk of their energy to climbing or they applied the drive that propelled them as climbers to their professional lives and they're now ph.ds or lawyers, doctors, etc.

Sadly, I for one have always been stuck in the 'have money-no time' or 'have time no-money quandry.' Nowadays, it's the money-no time, so I'm keeping up my end of the wealth/climbers issues.

Mountain Impulse wrote:Just my guess that high disposable income is more of a factor (a requiste) for activities like high altitude mountaineering. I imagine Himalayan outings cost a pretty penny, not only in terms of out-of-pocket for travel and gear, but also the equivalent in time; unless you're in the renown/elite class where you have sponsors.

The individuals going to the big three (Everest, Cho Oyo and Ama Dablam which accounts for the vast majority of those climbing in the Himalyas; probably ~85%) tend to be wealthier, but many happen to just spend A LOT of their hard earned cash on something that is important to them.

Also some of the most interesting mountains aren't that expensive. Kasum Kangaru which has an AMAZING north face and awesome ridge routes has a peak fee of $750 plus a garbage deposit which you can easily get back (plus a LO). Thee route can be done as cheaply as a trip to Alaska (almost)

The funny thing is that I find that my climbing helps my professional life (I don't care about advancement so I'm not afraid of telling people what they don't want to hear so people tend to respect my professional opinion more) and not climbing day in and day out and not placing my ego in terms of climbing, improves my climbing.