Well it's about bloody time!

The fight over a law to grant the U.S. government greater surveillance capabilities intensified on Wednesday as a score of House Democrats signed a statement refusing to give telecommunications firms immunity from prosecution for cooperating with, potentially illegally, past government wiretaps without warrants.

Well it's about bloody time someone actually did something!

But I wonder, will they ACTUALLY do something, or is this just yet another way of gathering some votes for the democrats and then push the issue into the closet until people forget? I ponder...
And even if they get this mess sorted out, will it just be held up in court for decades on end?

Then again, I don't think we should go after the ISPs and telecommunications companies, go after Bush instead - that'll scare telecommunications companies and the like to not go along with this crap in the future.

17 Comments

I agree fully Improbus.Then again, how people could elect Bush twice is beyond me...I take solice in the fact that he won't be around for a 9th year, unless he manages to change the constitution or something. Would barely surprise me, actually.

I keep nothing on my personal/work comptuer that I wouldn't want my mother to know. If there is something that sensitive you want to hide from someone, then put it on a usb/cd/dvd or whatever and secure it as you would your credit cards. And yes I am a proud and safe American and you are probably safer because of us and our policies. I don't feel my liberties are being steeped on. Only left-wing radicals think that way. Better than to be safe than dead. Oh yeah, use your computer security, like you tell you clients unless they are terrorists.

It's thinking like this that is radical. The left-wing thinkers know that what you give away now you'll have to take back by force later.

So you don't think your liberties are being stepped on because you have nothing to hide? It doesn't matter that the government can listen to your conversations without repercussion because you're not saying anything that might offend them?

As you give your liberties away (the ones your forefathers fought to give you) you will start to lose liberties that you didn't want to give away. The reasons those liberties exist isn't so terrorists can have their way with your country. They exist so that you can reasonably protect yourself from your own government. That is the point of freedom of speech, religion, etc...

I've used this quote many times and given credit to the wrong people but i'll use it again anyway, 'without citation'...

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither and will lose both."

Just because you have nothing to hide does NOT mean you need to give up your right to be able to.

@Paul"...then put it on a usb/cd/dvd or whatever and secure it as you would your credit cards"So, uhm... I should put my information on a USB drive and send it, instead of saying it over the phone, just so that the US government can't listen in? Inconvenient is an understatement. Besides, I'm pretty sure that terrorists able to plot to fly planes into buildings, probably discovered encryption and email already.

"...and you are probably safer because of us and our policies"How do you figure that?

As a freedom of speech activist, I respect your opinion and it's great that you can voice it without going to jail. That is also one of the freedoms that was once fought for.

I, Sir, spent 20 years in the US Coast Guard fighting narco-terrorists. And like you said ""...and you are probably safer because of us and our policies" How do you figure that?" How do you figure it didn't? Why don't you know that? Because you don't know if it worked or not. Why? Because most people that work/ed in that business kept their mouth shut. 'Nugh said to a teenage boy that was 16 when our Preseident was elected. By the way, aren't you marketing security products to people to try to subvert our counter-terrorist operations?

As for "The left-wing thinkers know that what you give away now you'll have to take back by force later." are too damn chicken to go out and fight for it. You would rather burn a draft card instead of fighting for it or do you forget history?

I, for one, don't feel I have lost any of my liberties since that last plane was taken down in the fields of Pennsylvania by true American heroes. I will bet your freedom of speech is even trying to be protected by your own government, but you would never admit your government would do such a thing would ya? You don't know if they are subverting your liberties; do ya? Hah.

@PaulA) I respect what the military does for my country as well as yours, but what I don't understand is why you bring that into this? What you did in the US coast guard really has no meaning in this discussion, as the topic from the very beginning was about warrantless wiretaps. That's it. Period.

B) No, we don't market our products and solutions to terrorists. What gave you that idea? We market it to companies much like ourselves, who must secure their sensitive information by law. And actually, american laws are the ones who praise encryption the most, so you're way off.

C) I don't need to be old in order to see that Bush is violating peoples rights by spying on them without a warrant - as stipulated by US law. Don't yell at me, blame the lawmakers of your own country!

D) I do know that my government is trying to do the same thing, and we're fighting to stop it from happening. So far, we're successful. If they're spying, they can't use it in court since they have no business being there in the first place. But you're still missing the point.

The only reason I bring up the US is because there is where this happened, that's it. If it happened in Sweden, I'd be on it like a leech - you have my word on that.

You and I simply have to agree to disagree. If you don't like it, that's your problem.

And FYI, personal attacks against the one voicing his or her opinion is quite futile.

I'm too young and too radical? *actually laughing out loud*So I guess that makes the rest of the world (you know, countries outside the united states - yea, they exist) too young and radical as well, because they loath US policies just as much.

It's quite amazing how an american can take offense when you say that there's something wrong with a policy that their government endorses. Really amazing.

I agree that there "might" be something toyour original quotation, and it will be investigated. However, someone that doesn't live in this country and either contacts someone that does or doesn't live here is wide open to scrutiny by our security services. That, sir, is U.S. law.

I do take offense from someone that doesn't live in the States and disses our government. We dole out so much money to help other countries and all they do is take the $$$ and laugh at us for believing in them. I am sick of it.

I practice freedom of speech and my right to privacy, regardless of country. In fact, I'm writing an essay on the idiocrazy of the swedish secret service (bad translation...) after a General forgot an unsecured USB drive in a public library. The USB contained american, french and german analysis of some assassination.So don't think I'm singling the US out, because I'm really not.

And yes, our government have lots of faults, and they try to impose their own agenda just as much as the next government. The difference is that we do not have one person with enormous power - we have an entire party. And even if they have a majority, they all need to agree on any one thing in order to go throug with it. Well, in a nutshell that's how it works anyways :)

And on your first note, I agree. It's perfectly fine that if I'm living outside of the US and calls into the US, I have no right to demand that they don't listen. But my american friends who are citizens afterall, should have those rights.

Oh and I almost forgot...I agree fully that the US is handing out way too much money to countries that don't necessarily deserve them. Or, rather, they might deserve help, but money isn't necessarily the solution.

I happen to work for a non-profit organization that is aiming at educating entrepreneurs in Africa so that they can build their own country/countries instead of taking hand-outs. Help them help themselves, so to speak. Off-topic, but nonetheless :)

The essential freedom quote is bent out of context. No one wants the Government to have Carte Blanch on listening in. But then that is NOT what is being asked for by the elected government of the American people ( left out the left wing Bush jab that you could not avoid). Patrik you ad homonym the argument at the gate. Without distortion you haven't a leg to stand on in this argument. It is sad you don't get it and it is dangerous for my kids. You really think after Watergate ( doubt you were born yet ) that anyone thinks the government can do something "bad" and get away with it? Come on ... really ... think about it. Be truthful and really look at what the government has asked to do ... Me .. I can't stand my President after he sided with the world court and can't seem to protect my boarder. I think he is truthful but he is out of touch with what the issue is. However, on the listening in surveillance. I think that is essential. Honestly, give specifics on what you are against. Are you a citizen in America ... they can't listen , are you a suspected terrorist calling ... then they can ... so what is it you are against ? I think it is Bush and the security of America, the greatest country the world has ever had. Put down the emotion, the pen and the attitude. Turn off the TV and find out for yourself before you spew ignorance across the web. ( a small jab there , but you can take it ) Look if you really want to tell me why it is bad ... then tell me why specifically, not is vague generalities. For example; war is bad. Is it really ? Read what Einstein said ( you know founder of the UN) after he changed his mind ... a very truthful and telling characteristic of a great mind ... when confronted with the Brown Shirt truth of Hitler he knew there was only one way out. Look ... all good men have to do is Nothing for evil to rule the world. I am so sorry to break it to you but until everyone has plowshares I suggest you keep the weapon. As for me I prefer protect America or â€¦At the very least let the testiment of your life be that you did more good than harm, to wit; get your facts before your pen.

@Nemo... so what is it you are against? I think it is Bush and the security of America, the greatest country the world has ever had.I'm sorry, but anyone who blatantly regurgitates the words about America being the greatest country in the world, needs to visit the rest of the world before debating big issues like this one. It's obviously something that you've been told and of course; it must be true.

I'm not against America in any way, and it's truly annoying that you'd think so. Read my post and let me know what anti-america lingo is in there. I'd love to hear about it. Actually, what would be anti-american is to go along with whatever your government does and never voicing your opinion.

And just for the record: Einstein didn't found the UN. There is no one man who founded the UN, in fact. It was 4 countries (5 if you count France who came on board later) that founded the League of Nations in 1919. It later became the UN. I don't think my age has to do with my knowledge of the world or its history, but you're welcome to believe so.

Hummmm â€¦. Well keep reading ... Einstein ... as one of the biggest supporters of the UN was the person all looked to ( in that day and age ) for the quick judgment of ..." is this a good idea" .... I guess I presumed the depth of your history (past that of your ability to look up UN on the Web) was beyond a rudimentary knowledge. I was referring to the "wisdom" of the day. Back then it was different, no blogs or CNN â€¦ you really looked to great "people" when it came to "big ticket" items to consider. He was a Huge campaigner for Peace at any price until he discovered Hitler, he was the biggest " celebrity if you will" who founded ( you might want to read a few of his speeches â€¦ but not sure they are on the web ) .. I guess your web search did not list that for youâ€¦ ? Anyway the point you totally missed was the one from historical perspective , you missed it only â€¦ and I mean only because â€¦ ( don't mean to hurt you on this ) â€¦ you simply don't have one. Honestly that is the only reason why you did not get what my Einstein reference was for. You see in his day he like many others went around talking about personal freedoms being lost and how he would leave America and â€¦ yada yada â€¦ until he found out what Hitler was up to ( he was not a citizen yet , just a visitor at large ) then he stood up and said â€¦ " I was wrong " and he became an advocate for the war ( for your web search that would be WW 2 â€¦ the "WW" stands for World War. â€¦ just want to help you on your web searchâ€¦.

Well, in my opinion, you have some knowledge but lack wisdom , which is the application of knowledge ( you may want to jot that down )

I have lived around the world my friend ... Guam, Japan, England ( both my brother were born in London), France, ... yada yada yada ... I've climbed Mt. Fuji , watched the sun come up the first day of spring on Mt. Haleakala .... yada yada ... sooo I think I have a little depth of knowledge when I say this country is the best. A large part of its culture is really screwed up ( the left, Hollywood, you ) ... but ... ( now go back in history again ) we were founded on 1/3 of a vote so it is to be expected. So ... again ... put down the pen, pick up some wisdom and think in depth ... anyone can pick on the surface. Remember , "foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds " and if religion is the opiate of the masses, then WMD, Big Government is the hobgoblin - opiate of the left. Hey ... it is hard to put emotions in an e-mail ... I don't mean any disrespect, but you are on a blog that should be viewed by folks with a depth of knowledge. You might want to show a depth beyond that of a quixotic parrot echoing the last " aarrrg mateee " from the move on.org Capt. hook of the left ... .. don't smile ... come on ... you liked that one â€¦ after your mind drew the mental picture ... lol. ... come out to St.Louis .. have a few beers and we can chat about it. ...

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The Security Outlet is about IT-security in general - everything from email encryption to fire-proof server rooms and healthy ...
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The Security Outlet is about IT-security in general - everything from email encryption to fire-proof server rooms and healthy backup routines. I'm also a huge advocate on the right to privacy and don't mind raggin' on the new redicilous legislations being passed all around the world today, designed to infringe on those rights.
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