Why are so many men so selfish and entitled in bed?

I don't mean rape or assault or any kind of sex where abuse is involved.

What I mean is the kind of really rubbish sex where you lie there afterwards feeling twitchy and resentful I've been thinking back over all the bad sex I've had. Sadly a lot of it was because I didn't think I was entitled to expect good sex and even when I did start understanding what I wanted and tried to gently encourage, I still encountered men who would

Go straight from a brief tongue jab to nipple twiddle followed by a quick check down there to see if I was 'ready'. Twiddle my nips in bored fashion as though trying to locate Latvian RadioFiddle with my ladyparts in manner of Doing Me a Favour or trying to remove a stain from blazer

The absolute worst sex ever was when I was briefly dating a doctor. I should have guessed at his manners when he wandered out of the restaurant and peed up against the side of the wall while howling like a wolf. I was only twenty - that's my excuse. He also possessed an extensive collection of 'video nasties' and in his bedroom was a very well thumbed copy of the Marquis de Sade's Forth Days of Sodom. There was no foreplay and he kept his socks on. It really hurt me because I wasn't ready at all and I asked him to stop. He said: 'Are you a virgin - is that why you're so dry?' Something snapped and I got out of bed got dressed and went home.

Now I've been with DP for several years and I could tell he was going to be fabulous from the moment we kissed and he was and he still is. It's because my pleasure is his pleasure too. It's really not that difficult. Like women and take some time to turn them on. Why, with all the information out there are some men still so entitled and selfish in bed?

There was a brief, glorious time in the eighties where it looked as though we were going to dump all those double standards about sluts vs. studs and where men actually wanted to be good in bed. They even read books about how to make sure they were.

And now young men send you texts where they assure you that they can "go all night". I did once ask someone if he thought that that ability was what constituted being a good lover and if so where he'd got that idea from, but he became apoplectic with rage and didn't answer the question.

It's a mystery. A couple of people have said that women don't know how to communicate what they like, but surely it should occur to men to ask?

One of the reasons women don't communicate what they like is because a) if they're young, they may not actually know what they like and b) because we are still living with the hangover of finding it "slutty" for women to know what they like and ask for it. We're supposed to gratefully receive what men "give" us and that's supposed to automatically cause paroxysms of orgasms.

Oh and PMSL at "the one who quite literally did press ups on me with his eyes tightly shut and if I made a noise he said "shhh!""

I agree that women need to take responsibility for their own pleasure and communicate what they want to their lovers. But equally there still seem to be a load of men who when you do try to communicate, either ignore it or are deeply threatened by anything that deviates from their 'Seeking Radio Latvia' nipple fiddling and three minute thrust-a-thon followed by snoring.

Ilovemydog I've never had an orgasm from penetrative sex either. And if women enjoying sex has only been around for about 100 years, the clitoris was only 'discovered' in the last twenty or thirty years.

I think that the idea that women don't enjoy sex is more a Victorian construct than something that's been around for all time. In the 17thC apparently it was thought that conception was more likely if the woman had an orgasm too. (May be wrong, I'm not an expert .)

I would suggest that the idea that women "shouldn't" enjoy sex has only been around since the patriarchal religions took over from the matriarchal and made everything about the menz. IIRC, the early earth-worshipping relgions were all about women and pleasuring women was an important job for a man. Or perhaps I just read too much Clan of the Cave Bear....

I love my DP to bits but the sex is pretty 'meh'. I love sex, I had an amazing sex life before I met him, always made sure I got what I wanted and gave back, too. But DP has no clue how to please a woman.

He is pretty well-endowed but it's a total waste! He honestly believes that an ex of his found him too big and that's why she didn't enjoy sex and went off with someone else... I'm convinced it is because he is utterly clueless about foreplay and the fact that it is different for women.

I have explained a million times as nicely as I can how I want intimacy, talking, oral, stroking, you know, proper love-making, tried to demonstrate, tried to read books with him, but it falls on deaf ears. He's not totally selfish, he honestly does try but it's like being with a 15 year-old. He feels self-conscious during sex anyway, and to feel he's being 'taught' I think makes it worse. Because I've mentioned it, there's pressure on him now to perform. I don't know what to do but it's becoming a real problem for me.

His parents are quite repressed people, they find it hard to display emotions, though they are kind and it is clear the emotions are there. DP is better, makes his feelings known, etc, but sex in their house was a completely taboo subject. I worry because his father had an affair about 10 years ago and was sleeping with prostitutes, clearly spent years with it all bubbling up inside. I tell DP we need to be able to talk properly about sex and over the last 4 years it's got better, but still...I don't want him to end up doing what bis Dad did. The family brushed it all under the carpet and carried on.

When DP was single he did use internet porn, which I reckon taught him to expect certain things but not to have to give anything back. He's 10 years younger than me and I have found that men of his generation are definitely different in bed. Though my experience is limited to three men ranging from 10 to 13 years younger than me, the difference is marked.

I love him dearly, he's thoughtful, caring and wonderful in every other way but I am so frustrated! I actually find myself thinking of the incredible sex life my exH and I built up over the years and (though exH is an arse) missing it.

When I was in my teens and early 20's before I met exH I did have a fair amoint of boyfriends who, if they didn't know, asked what I liked. My first proper boyfriend aged 18 was very considerate and I found most boys were keen to be 'good in bed' and knew that meant the girl enjoying it too.

When I split from exH in my mid-30's I had a crazy fling with a 22 year old who wanted to do it in every position (he thought it made him a great lover) but had no clue re foreplay. Similarly with a 25 year old, and then I met DP who was 26. We both knew straight away that it was meant to be, and I assumed sex would get better as time went by, particularly as he'd had a couple of long relationships. Ha.

I just don't think intimacy and mutual satisfaction are things people think about any more. Did they ever? I don't know.

My lovely dp and his exw were both virgins when they married (many moons ago). He says that neither of them had a clue about their own bodies, or about each others, and no idea how to communicate about it. It was all pretty crap and they spilt up. He is eternally gratefully to the girlfriend he had next (as am I) who knew what she liked, but most importantly, had the patience and persistence to teach him well, so that when we met it was only a matter of teaching him a few adjustments and personal preferences.

Interestingly in Shakespearian times, when all actors were men, one of the purposes of writing and acting was to understand female emotions and reasoning and communication - hence all the men dressed up as woman and boy/girl confusion in the stories. So maybe lots of method acting in some of the gentler Shakespeare plays and fewer graphic rape films would go some way to teaching boys empathy.

I'd turn the thread title around and ask "Why aren't more women selfish and entitled in bed?"

Nothing turns a man on more than knowing he is pleasuring a woman - making a woman orgasm is a huge ego boost for them. So women, get entitled, get selfish, make love making all about your pleasure and the man will get swept up in it and have a good time by default.

You're wrong world maybe read my post again. My dp doesn't get that ego boost from pleasing me. I've had lovers that get so turned on when I'm enjoying myself. Not all men are like this. My p doesn't really look at me during sex, he looks like he's concentrating on reaching the big O and not much else tbh.

I do feel used sometimes, like a mastubatory toy. Horrible. I'm sensing another talk is imminent but really don't see the point tbh.

Spell, I am in the same situation as you. I have a DH who is great in every other way, but sexually is pretty lame. He comes from a similar background to your DP's, VERY sexually repressed, non expressive etc.

we have talked loads about it, I've told him what I like and showed him what I do, I have bought him books and even suggested counselling. All a no go. Our problem now is that I am turned off from him sexually. I can no longer make my head feel fwoar about him. He's a good looking guy, I get a lot of comments about how lucky I am from friends, and I just sit there and think 'if only you knew'.

I love him dearly. If a shit sex life is the price I pay for an otherwise completely happy and fulfilled marriage then so be it, I have had plenty of partners where the sex was amazing but the relationship itself utter shite, so I'll make that compromise. But there are times when it makes me feel desperately sad.

I don't think I will last long with this low level of intimacy. I've already started fantisising about other men. I met a doctor the other day for an appointment who was gorgeous and that night I was thinking about him lots and even dreamt about him. I feel awful. Why is it always down to the woman to dress up, wax, shave, smell good etc. for me anyway. I used to do all that, now I don't bother. Too much effort on my part and none on his.

Never laughed so hard.Maybe it's God's gift to the world.The guys amazing in bed are almost always going to be cocks.and guys amazing at relationships are almost always clueless or don't have that oomphh.

Dryjuice what I meant about the clitoris was that in terms of societal sexual knowledge, it wasn't generally known or accepted that a large majority of women orgasm from clitoral stimulation rather than straight 'woodpecker' thrusting until quite recently. And only when feminism started to rear its head in the seventies. Up till then all the talk about sexuality was done by mainly men.

worldgonecrazy I'd turn the thread title around and ask "Why aren't more women selfish and entitled in bed?" Spot on.

When I was very young I went through a phase of relationships with older men (they were divorced) and in every case, foreplay was a smash and grab act, tongue thrusting as though my mouth had been invaded by a marauding haddock, and some random squeezing of body parts before the thirty second hump fest. All the finesse of a speeding train with an erection. All of them were the kind of men who married very young and never learned any sexual finesse (or felt the need to), and their wives presumably didn't say what they wanted or the men never asked, so the bloke stayed 'stuck' sexually as a rapacious teenager and the bad habits just stayed ingrained. I tried explaining what I wanted but it was useless. I suppose what I'm saying is - the age of the man is immaterial. Good manners, enthusiasm and paying attention to your partner and what she wants. Why is it so hard for some men? <fnar fnar.>

I find it very difficult to say what I want and how I want it. My parents were both pretty repressed and sex was never really spoken about.

DH and I do enjoy sex but I get more pleasure out of making him orgasm than myself. Also with a 2yo DD and being 37 wks pregnant my libido is not massive!

DH though would do anything to make me happy, I KNOW this, but I'm just not good at communicating to him. I have no idea how to start! Especially because I never have before, and I assume he'll wonder why I haven't, and feel bad himself, which is the last thing I want because it's not him, it's me!

I can think of two possible answers to the question of why some men are so selfish and entitled in bed. Either a) they don't realise just how crap they're being, or b) they just don't care either way. In my experience most men fall into one of these two camps (if not both). The ones who don't realise are redeemable, if their partners are willing and able to educate them; the ones who don't care are a lost cause.

That said, it shouldn't be our sole responsibility to educate our menfolk about how to be considerate etc. The idea that sex should be fun for both parties really ought to occur to them, and if it doesn't, then something's gone very wrong somewhere. The thing that sets my current bloke apart from ones I've sampled previously is he's well aware that every woman's different and he needs to actually pay attention and learn what I like. And he does so enthusiastically, which also helps.