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no truly disinterested act is possible

I think no truly disinterested act is possible.
It is not like some god had landed from a distant planet & could judge human affairs as if he were totally removed, unconcerned, unaffected, self-satisfied.
The answer is self-explanatory...
Why would any man venture the MOB route?
If you ask the many die-hard non-whites, they will tell you it happened by chance ( uh! they were surfing for lawn mowers ) and this & that.
None will ever mention they're chasing a delusion revolving around white meat, possibly for cheap.
It is the good old story about being THREE reasons why anyone does anything: the real reason, the reason we tell ourselves, the nice reason we tell others.
I will spare you the trouble about me.
I) My looks are poor. I've no men's health physique. I'm not the hit of the party & never have been.
II) I have no big job, no big money, no big status (EG a university professor might earn less than a successful manure dealer, but his status will be definitely higher ). I am average middle class Joe. I can't afford vacationing seven weeks a year in exotic places.
While i personally have turned to the RELOCATION option (if...ever possible; we'll see ), i can easily concede it is quite possible for a 5-man like me to get a 7-8 woman.
Forget the 9 and the 10, because with them you'll run into the same scenes and scenarios you do at home.
I could (like non-whites do ) whine about how wonderful i am beyond skin deep; how Hitler lost the war & it's time to end prejudice; how "hummoun boeings" all have something in common...blahblah.
Or the winning argument WWs are all bitter domineering feminists.

Who would i be kidding?
Census sites (see my other posts) show that divorce rates in the FSU & in the west roughly compare.
Women are women; from another country, not another planet.

Too bad domestic women in general just ignore me.
I'm a decent, middle class man...i don't live in a trailer on the dole, either.
But to them it's not enough...in my case at least.
Sure, i could quote the guy who's ugly as puke, unemployed and his girlfriend is pretty & educated.
Yet in my life matters what I can do, not urban legends about what someone else did.

Ham, your posted reason for "going the FSU route" is disturbing, because it's a jolt of reality.

Perhaps there is need for a reality check among many westerners seeking in the FSU, who have not the combined desirable attributes of Brad Pitt, Bill Gates and Ron Jeremy.

If they (or we) have not the qualities sought by ladies in the West, what is so different about ladies in the FSU, that they should be prepared to compromise? Humans are humans, yes?

Love is intrinsic. If you have a son who enjoys mowing the lawn, that is an intrinsic motivation. The worst thing you can do is introduce an extrinsic motivation, such as paying him to do it, or telling him he MUST do it.

It may be that the inducements a westerner offers are simply extrinsic motivations - his homeland, his lifestyle, a life which is arguably less of a struggle. If this is true, and I suspect it is, then it is a fallacy upon which to build a relationship. The westerner only has something the girl wants UNTIL she has acquired these things herself, thanks to him! Even if the fellow is half-decent looking, even if he adores her respects her and treats her well, the extrinsic motivation will kill off any chance of love. The primary motive (to make a better life) will drive her subconscious to never actually love him.

You have already written that the ratio of unmarried men to women is better in places like the USA than in the FSU. We read report after report of FSU women seeking pecuniary gain from visiting foreign beaux, and many who even "try it on" at the correspondence stage!

And as yet, nobody has come forward to report even a 15-year marriage to an FSU woman still going strong.

Only the most doggedly positive individual would dare argue that this discourse is negative rather than circumspect.

I cannot claim there are [u]NO MOB SUCCESSES.I think there are [u]some.It is light years from the glamorous renaissance picture painted by agencies and middlemen, tough.
The truth is very rarely exciting, if at all.
I am just a middle class Joe you might mistake for a million other middle class Joes.
Forget all those nutcases short of medications getting high with an alter ego over the internet, who's faster than superman, sticks to the walls like Spiderman and is stronger than Hulk.

quote:If they (or we) have not the qualities sought by ladies in the West, what is so different about ladies in the FSU, that they should be prepared to compromise? Humans are humans, yes?

i made my mind up; others do every day. I cited the example of a person who wasted time flaming me and arguing back on improbable terms...while his wonder MOB wife was setting him up, which he eventually found out.

I went online in 1997.
At the time i thought that, within limits, people might lie, yes, but not out of this world.
Boy was i wrong.
Thanks to a friend i even hacked a few computers and found out.
Shortly thereafter i stopped bothering with investigations.
Suffice is to say i even met a nutcase who said he was Elton John and wanted to swap nudies...go figure.
i no longer consider what people claim about themselves...

quote:Even if the fellow is half-decent looking, even if he adores her respects her and treats her well, the extrinsic motivation will kill off any chance of love.

Hmmm
FSUWs being on average prettier than WWs, are we hoping they are "saving themselves" for us?
Come on!
Some sources claim less than 5% men into the MOB thing will EVER visit the FSU; then deduct sex tourists & novelty seekers...
These women do have domestic boyfriends.

Ever polled FSUWs about WHY ON EARTH THEY SOLICIT ROMANCE FROM WESTERN MEN LIVING 1000,2000, 6000, 12000 km away?!

The top reasons
* FSU is a wasteland of poverty. An aspirin is 30$.
* FSU men are all violent, jobless drunkards on parole
* FSUWs vastly outnumber FSUMs
* Need of pastel colored love they can't get in the FSU for the above reasons.

I debunked the above myths in separate threads...and tonight pretty Sveta is getting ****ed silly by her domestic boyfriend Igor...yes, a local jobless drunk man.

I would like to respond to these ?stereotypes? about Russia and other FSU, which were listed in previous post:

The top reasons
* FSU is a wasteland of poverty. An aspirin is 30$.-Wrong. In Moscow alone you have 50.000 millionaires (in USD of course), so pretty girls do not have problems finding good mate.
* FSU men are all violent, jobless drunkards on parole-Wrong. But I agree that living style is different from western. Keep in mind that this is changing too. And domestic violence is something that is not tolerated well by society as a whole, so wife beaters must deal with all other men, not only police.
* FSUWs vastly outnumber FSUMs-Right. Like in every country. Reason: women live longer. So if you are looking for a lady 50+ or 60+ you shouldn?t have a problem. But if you are going for young girls keep in mind that they do not lack of men, especially in the age group 18-30.
* Need of pastel colored love they can't get in the FSU for the above reasons.- When it comes to love I think Russians are much better lovers than Westerns, because they have kept their masculinity, which most of foreigners lack. Girls just love bad boys.

I would like to respond to these ?stereotypes? about Russia and other FSU, which were listed in previous post:

The top reasons
* FSU is a wasteland of poverty. An aspirin is 30$.-Wrong. In Moscow alone you have 50.000 millionaires (in USD of course), so pretty girls do not have problems finding good mate.
* FSU men are all violent, jobless drunkards on parole-Wrong. But I agree that living style is different from western. Keep in mind that this is changing too. And domestic violence is something that is not tolerated well by society as a whole, so wife beaters must deal with all other men, not only police.
* FSUWs vastly outnumber FSUMs-Right. Like in every country. Reason: women live longer. So if you are looking for a lady 50+ or 60+ you shouldn?t have a problem. But if you are going for young girls keep in mind that they do not lack of men, especially in the age group 18-30.
* Need of pastel colored love they can't get in the FSU for the above reasons.- When it comes to love I think Russians are much better lovers than Westerns, because they have kept their masculinity, which most of foreigners lack. Girls just love bad boys.

i think that if we look in our own countries we will find our mates as in most countries women out number men and in my country its 8 to 1.
yes if we were supposed to hunt women from far away we god would of gave us wings. the internet is just a place were we all can be dishonest in one way or another.fsu women are beautiful,but why would you want some women who does not understand you but makes you understand what she wants. to be fair its all a game and if you get lucky and hit the jackpot wee then you one in a million

Wow, it was funny to read what you guys think about Russia and Ukraine and other countries of Former USSR.

Life here is not that bad, and not all people drink that much. And speaking about aspirin in does not cost here more than 20 us cents.

But at the same time life is not easy. The prices are going up the ceiling all the time and it is becoming harder and harder to live for simple people, not those corrupted millionare (sorry for spelling, not sure if it is right). The prices for utilities are too expensive for most people, plus the salaries are not so good to be able to have a normal life. Life in Western countries is much better than here, no matter that you guys have to pay more for your bills, still.

quote:The prices for utilities are too expensive for most people, plus the salaries are not so good to be able to have a normal life. Life in Western countries is much better than here, no matter that you guys have to pay more for your bills, still.

What a pile of bull****. Maybe in the Ukraine, but comparing it to Russia is like comparing Nigeria to Switzerland.

The arguments put forth in the original thread above, on in the subsequent replies, would stir a literal storm in the teacup of MOB sites, if one had dared to spell it out.
As far as my uninformed and anecdotal guess goes, in the intervening 2,5 years many hardcore partisans of 'MOB success stories' have grown silent...many have publicly admitted their 'love dream with a 10 from the FSU' has ended in bitter terms: divorces, lawsuits, criminal charges and the very sad 'I can now tell you what I truly think of you' attitude...
Since it takes guts to publicly acknowledge the failure of a 'success' announced with much fanfare and at times arrogance, we may safely surmise the number of 'success stories gone bust' to be much higher than the growing number of 'insuccess stories' might suggest.
Those men were busy insulting other people online, or carving with obsessive precision their online self as 'winners' to notice their '10 from the FSU' were setting them up...
Bottom line: this thread's advice was sound...

The arguments put forth in the original thread above, on in the subsequent replies, would stir a literal storm in the teacup of MOB sites, if one had dared to spell it out.
As far as my uninformed and anecdotal guess goes, in the intervening 2,5 years many hardcore partisans of 'MOB success stories' have grown silent...many have publicly admitted their 'love dream with a 10 from the FSU' has ended in bitter terms: divorces, lawsuits, criminal charges and the very sad 'I can now tell you what I truly think of you' attitude...
Since it takes guts to publicly acknowledge the failure of a 'success' announced with much fanfare and at times arrogance, we may safely surmise the number of 'success stories gone bust' to be much higher than the growing number of 'insuccess stories' might suggest.
Those men were busy insulting other people online, or carving with obsessive precision their online self as 'winners' to notice their '10 from the FSU' were setting them up...
Bottom line: this thread's advice was sound...

3.5 years later...

I spent almost 12 years with my FSU MOB, and can only say I would have enjoyed a root canal that took as long more.

The thread's advice was sound. And is sound.

I think the era of the FSU MOB is over; however, these women are still here, looking for their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th victims. Be careful out there.