10. Then where do you draw the line?

If a person who is legally an adult can have sex with someone who has not yet reached the age of consent, when is legal and when is it a crime?

Yes, there is a difference and that is what lesser sentences are for. Kaitlyn should not get the same punishment as Jerry Sandusky, but she did (allegedly) break the law and should receive some punishment for that crime.

82. I did

I was in a organized group of kids ranging from 12 to 18. We partied together, camped together, traveled together, and worked together. 14 to 18 would have been at the extreme edge of some of what went on, but not all that far.

85. You were in a cult?

96. Ha!

No, but some might have seen it that way. It was a bit of a cross between scouting and a church youth group, without the religion. Kinda hard to explain, but basically was a place that upper middle class liberals sent their kids to learn about the environment and science. We had great, very liberal, adult leaders that had a special gift for working with folks in that age range. It worked quite well actually, with the older kids tending to keep the younger ones out of trouble.

103. Current friends

I know a couple, in their 40's now, that "dated" when she was 14 and he was 18. Parents were aghast of course and all manner of trouble ensued. He went off to college, she went to her senior prom with someone else. He graduates college, she's now in college as a junior, when they meet again over a Christmas break. Long story short, they start dating again and ultimately get married. 4 kids later and all is just fine. Not saying it is common, but I know I always had an affinity, my whole life for friendships and dating "older" people. My spouse on the other hand generally socializes much better with much younger people.

16. Oh I'm sorry...the SC person doesn't approve of rape...figures

60. SC has one of the lowest ages of consent in the US, and the law in SC would be better for Kate in FL

SECTION 16-3-655. Criminal sexual conduct with a minor; aggravating and mitigating circumstances; penalties; repeat offenders. (B) A person is guilty of criminal sexual conduct with a minor in the second degree if:...(2) the actor engages in sexual battery with a victim who is at least fourteen years of age but who is less than sixteen years of age and the actor is in a position of familial, custodial, or official authority to coerce the victim to submit or is older than the victim. However, a person may not be convicted of a violation of the provisions of this item if he is eighteen years of age or less when he engages in illicit but consensual sexual conduct with another person who is at least fourteen years of age.

So the laws you made in your State say the kid in FL goes free. Funny how that is, considering your posturing here.

30. Drugging somebody falls into the category of "Actual rape"

As in sex where one of the parties did not agree to have sex. As opposed to sex where both parties were interested in having sex, knew that they were going to have sex, and neither party used force/drugs to coerce the other party.

The American spin on this, fitting America's deep historical discomfort with sex, is to declare that even youths in their late teens are incapable of consenting to sex, and hence anyone who has sex with them is "raping" them. Of course, the realities of teen horniness and high school sex made the above policy so obviously stupid that even American legislators felt motivated to respond, hence "Romeo & Juliet" statutes, which seem to declare that a 15 year old understands the consequences of sex with a 17 year old, but doesn't understand the meaning of sex with an 18 year old.

32. You mean only punish people for forcing somebody else to have sex? Blasphemy!

You know damn well that the better solution is to lock millions of horny adolescents into confined structures for months on end, become appalled when some of them begin to screw, and then apply a Byzantine statutory framework to slap massive legal consequences onto the occasional senior who pisses of his/her girlfriend's/boyfriend's parents.

52. If it's not black and white, it's he\she said he\she said

The same "peer group" and other vague notions would be used in an attempt to defend even the most egregious cases of rape.
One of my good friends was sexually abused from the time she was 7 until she was 13 when they moved. As is very common, she became promiscuous in her adolescence. She became pregnant at 15 and the rest is a very ugly history. This is not a unique story. It is only one scenario that illustrates why the black & white line is necessary.
If the parties see gray area and work out a plea, that's their business. But other innocents who are victimized should not be sacrificed to ensure that poor misguided individuals who disregard laws don't get in trouble.

18. not when it comes to drinking he isn't

nor is he when it comes to search and seizure law within the school. In point of fact within the school he doesn't gain any rights at all from turning 18 except the fact he can drop out without parental consent but the fact is in many states he would have gained that right upon reaching 16.

21. My solution: No eighteen year olds in high school.

No adult high school students, no high school students with drivers licenses or any other "adult" privileges.

All we have to do is set the driving age to eighteen, learners permits to 17 1/2, and kindergarten to first grade.

Problem solved.

Truth is that in many places fifteen year old girls have babies with twenty something dads who stay out of jail because the District Attorney has plenty worse shit to deal with.

I suspect this case has very little to do with the age difference and it's all about the same-sex relationship.

Mathematically homosexual kids have a much smaller pool of potential partners. Even though I know nothing about the exact circumstances of this case, I'm more likely to give these kids the benefit of my doubt than I would any heterosexual teens of the same ages.

28. I think it's possible...

To feel the relationship was inappropriate and, if they really were 18 and 14, probably illegal due to the the age difference, and still be concerned about the law potentially being inconsistently applied because of the fact the this was a same sex relationship. It's also possible to believe that the younger girl's parents may have been disturbed by that fact, that it may have reacted differently if the older girl was a boy, and yet still were absolutely legally justified in involving law enforcement. Particularly if they'd told Katelyn to stay away and she didn't.

76. What "same classes" do 14 and 18 yr olds attend?

95. Depends upon the school.

My high school had about 120 kids for all four grades. There were some classes that were shared by all grades who took the class. I remember being in the band with all four grades, and even some eigth graders in the band too. We had about 25 kids in the band.

38. I doubt I'd start petitions...

but I grew up in SC. I taught middle school there in the 70's.

1.) Kids in middle school had sex (even in the 70's!). Not all of them, but some of them. It was not unheard of to have a pregnancy. My wife had a piano student who was 14 who got pregnant (via a 16 year old boyfriend). She was sweet and mature and said they only had sex once. He said it was his first time too. I believed them at the time, and the sets of parents never considered criminal charges.

2.) When my mother-in-law died, we found her birth certificate and marriage license. She was married at 15 and had her first child at 16. She was a church organist for 50 years, never drank a drop of alcohol, and was as conservative as you could get. She married the choir director!

In other words, it's not a good idea for teenagers to have sex (or other things they're too young to do), but it's crazy to think that it doesn't happen. When it does, each situation is different. Times and cultures change! For example, the middle school I taught in used to regularly paddle kids. They don't do that now. We didn't think about it then.

There's a difference in maturity, circumstances, and opportunity for each person. I think it is unlikely for sex at a young age to be ok, but for the generation before me, it was ok to get married at a young age with the blessing of parents and everyone involved. I wasn't there, so I can't really second guess all those folks.

42. I don't think it's "ok." I just don't think high school seniors should be lifetime sex offenders

44. If this was an opposite sex couple doing the SAME THING this would not be an issue.

I doubt there was much more than kissing, dry humping and maybe a finger, (or OMG a tongue) which I am pretty sure happens with no outrage in opposite sex couples in school together. On the other hand most parents would be happy that's all their girls did with their boyfriends.

But you seem to be an expert on girl and girl sex, did you have a sex change or do you base your assumptions on porn?

Older kids were with younger kids frequently at my high school. It was never a big issue until the sex-is-bad crowd got out of control. We had sex-education that was actually informative. Kids are going to have sex- period.

57. Did you even read my response?

Sneaking out is one thing.

Having sex another.

Normal kids experiment. Some are more mature than others. If my 14 year about to turn 15 old daughter had a serious relationship with a 17 old girl who then turned 18 would I freak out? No. I'd be happy she wasn't dating someone like you.

You have NO IDEA what a homosexual goes through in high school, the more you write the more evident it becomes.

65. Pissed off parents plus the law would make an issue out of it.

It's very hard for the justice system to ignore it if the parents press the issue.

Edited to add: some parents turn a blind eye, especially if they think the relationship is healthy and the ages are very close to being legal. I don't know many parents who would turn a blind eye to their 14 year old daughter dating an 18 year old guy.

50. ???

51. As a member of DU

I sure as hell am NOT OK with adults having sex with underage kids. NOT ever. I don't give a shit about the gender of the adult (it IS irrelevant), I don't give a shit about the sexual orientation of the adult predator (it IS irrelevant).

I do NOT care that someone's relative was married" at 14 (or 13 ... or whatever) . it does not make it right!

80. How is the op " disgusting, homophobic"?

62. Arguing about this is totally pointless, imo.

I'm not even sure what was the truth in that story, so I mostly avoided having an opinion in it.

This is an issue that can be argued here until people are red-faced without any real result. The reason is that, A, there are multiple factors that might come into play here, and B, we still know very little about this story (and as a result, people just fill in the blanks, usually to validate their own opinions).

I can't defend either side in this battle in good faith. I guess it's because I'm not willing to defend breaking the law in this matter, but on the other hand, I don't think she is a pedophile.

66. No it's not okay.

14 year olds are not able to have consensual sex by law. I had a male friend who was a second year senior who had sex with a 9 th grader. Her parents called the cops and he is on the sex offender registry right now. For life. He knew what he was doing was illegal and did it anyway. She was young and easy to manipulate.

69. So long as no one was forced I find it hard to care...

I'll certainly get flamed for that, but whatever. I am uncomfortable with morality legislation in the best of cases, and when the laws are as muddled and subjective as these I find it virtually impossible.

70. It certainly isn't OK for people in their 30s to have sex with 14-year-olds

I do see the argument that if they were both in high school that they were peers, though. Maybe the Romeo/Juliet laws should allow for a 4-year age difference so kids going to the same school are not included in statutory rape laws if they start dating? I'm not sure. I am in favor of statutory rape laws, but when both kids are high school students, it doesn't seem as clear to me as when one person is 35 and the other is 14.

72. Maybe kids in high school should be allowed to date each other, even freshman and seniors.

I dated a senior in high school as a freshman. The kids in my grade were extremely immature. The laws to protect the 14 year old against older sexual predators seem silly when slapped on an 18 year old senior that was in the same peer group. The consent laws are so arbitrary.

73. That would be the common sense solution.

The culture of the school itself serves to establish that all students are peers. If the law is going to be enforced against high school students having relationships, the school should be responsible for segregating students under 16 from the older students.

Another thing is that it's really difficult to tell the ages of high school kids. You can have 14 year olds that look like they're 25, and 18 year olds who still look like they're 14. How are THEY supposed to know who's jailbait?

74. o deer

78. Major difference between a TEACHER

who is not only over the age of 21, but also an AUTHORITY FIGURE. Is a teenage upperclassmate an authority figure? Yes, I also agree about a 17 and 18 year old. Legal one day, but not the next? How about an age difference of say 6 WEEKS? Throw them in jail?

86. Okay, I am going to say it ( the huge ELEPHANT in the room)

To the people that are protesting, petitioning and defending the 18 year old (and to the 18 year old herself) in this case,

It seems almost as if gay sex is somehow better than heterosexual sex. Not as bad, dirty, nasty or what have you as it would with hetero couples, man and man, even....Even the above examples of Woman on minor male instances. To me it seems, the fact that it is gay sex (between two women...) somehow elevates it from an illegal act to one worthy of cause celebre.

riendsI know alla bout this, I had pretty much the exact thing with my usually younger girlfriends, and the threat broke us up. The parents did not like me and they used the law to keep me away from their daughter (18-16).

So it happens and happens to most of us. if you are a male in my age, "jailbait" was a descriptor. The problem is the parents of the kid that is younger. if they don't like it, then no matter if you are gay, striped, man, woman and any combination thereof, they can fuck your life over.

the law is the law, for everyone. (I think the law sucks personally but there is no chance of that ever changing)

93. There is so much stupid bullshit flying around about this.

I can only imagine a large portion of it must be deliberate, for some fucked up reason or other.

Here are some things that aren't hard to understand:

1. "The law is the law" is fucking stupid. "The law is the law" has defended every fucked-up law that ever existed in this (or any other) society, and ever will. It's the defense of cowards afraid to argue for their moral cowardice.

2. It's not hard to see a difference between a three or four year age gap and much larger age gaps. That's made worse when we treat them, in many other day-to-day ways, as actual peers. Yeah, we probably have to write laws to include arbitrary age cutoffs, for lack of a better way to do it. But that doesn't mean we can't come up with a way to accommodate cases like this one. Like every other high-school romance where one or more parties happen to fall just over one of these ultimately-arbitrary lines of demarcation. The law exists to protect naive youth from adults. It pains me to think one needs to fucking say that here, of all places. Is eighteen older than fourteen, and more mature? Yes. Is it in any serious way the same thing as the difference between fourteen and twenty-five, or thirty? Absolutely fucking not. And it doesn't take a genius to notice. It takes a particularly ridiculous sort of liar to pretend not to.

3. We're smart enough to write our laws to accommodate problems with these boundary conditions. We're fully able to do that. And if we fail in that, then the legal system is smart, and flexible enough to tailor its enforcement with that in mind. And if it isn't, we've failed on *two* fronts. We should be goddamned ashamed of that.

4. We don't have to approve of the clandestine shit in the relationship to recognize any of the above. I wouldn't like a fourteen-year-old child of mine sneaking off to have sex with another fourteen-year-old either, for one obvious example. That doesn't mean I need age-based legal protections to overcome that. If my child is actually coerced, that's a legal problem. If there is a significant age gap that doesn't exist *solely* due to the placement of boundary conditions, that's a legal problem.

This case should not be a legal problem. That's not because "sex with fourteen-year-olds" is okay for adults. It's because I'm not deliberately stupid enough to pretend that our arbitrary boundaries for adulthood need to be reified this goddamned stupid extent. Yes, there will ultimately be a boundary condition for anything we do. Should it be three years age difference? Four? There will be grey areas no matter what. But when people act in good faith, we can do our best to work those out. This bullshit is not being pushed ahead in good faith. There certainly appears to be an anti-gay element to this story. Maybe there isn't, but probably there is. Just one more reason to raise an eyebrow. This girl's family is not acting in good faith.

And neither are the agenda-pushers (MRA and otherwise). But that's no surprise. Acting in good faith is their goddamned kryptonite.

This is a prime example of a law where common sense and flexibility come into play. I still don't understand how one little check-box on the calendar suddenly makes one of two young lovers a "criminal" or a sexual predator.

98. This was a high school infatuation.

Do I think any kids should be having sex at 14, 15, 16, 17, hell no. But, we all know it happens. Us from the 60's all knew where the "make-out" spots were. We knew the girls the guys talked about getting to 1st, 2nd, and 3rd base. We went to parties in high school where couples would disappear and show up later after a roll in the grass. We all knew girls who got pregnant and disappeared for months.

I don't remember then or even now anyone, boys or girls getting arrested for sexual behavior.

I understand laws have been tighten because of the use of rape drug use, and I'm glad for it. No girl should be forced to have sexual relations with anyone.

When they start arresting every football, basketball, baseball player or other campus stud for dating a 14 year old, then I'd say ok, to this one. The parents should have gotten a restraining order against the girl and let it go. All they've done now is have the national spotlight shine on their daughter, and probably alienated her from them forever.