Yeah, still waiting for facts, but it looks like he mistook her for an intruder. If that's what happened, then man, what a horrible situation; but also, what a dumbass...ALWAYS identify your target before shooting. No exceptions. Ever.

hmmmmm arguing heard earlier in the day, talk of a domestic violence situation previously but he "accidentally" shot her. Why am I not buying it? I'm not convicting the guy, I still think he deserves his day in court and for much more evidence to come out before I would say that he is guilty or not, but I will say that I have my doubts about the intruder story.

“You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can’t please all of the people all of the time”

For some reason I was thinking of Jaco Pastorious (bassist from the Weather Report) when I read the headline and got all confused because he's been dead for years and HE was killed by a guy at a bar. I'm serious. My brain doesn't work right and I got all discombobulated.

This story is weird for sure. I always respected Oscar for his willingness to fight the good fight and standing up for those of us with disabilities. He was a hero to many of us who've lost/broken/ruined a limb. It was great to see him excel. I know there was the whole blade controversy, but having worked with many disabled kids, they didn't get into the physics of it all, and were just ecstatic to see somebody like Oscar who had a problem like they do competing at the highest levels. It gave them hope. Much like Lance Armstrong did for so many cancer battlers/survivors.

Where have our heroes gone? It's hard to find somebody to buy into and pattern your life after it seems. You almost have to wait until a guy dies and hope he doesn't do anything nutty before you can put your faith in them and follow them. I guess that's why I follow my father's example so closely. He's not around anymore to goof it up.... oh, and he was a pretty amazing guy as well.

Heard he shot her five times. That's a lot of lead to empty into an "intruder".

One thing about the idea of a "hero". They become "heroes" by excelling at whatever they like to do. They play the game, or compete, or act, in that forum, in a way worthy of admiration. Why do we feel the need to expand this to their entire life? Regardless of if he intentionally killed her or not, a lot of people were inspired by what he did in the Olympics, in that forum, he is to be admired. Its like, whatever happens in the personal life of Tiger Woods does not affect how I view him as a golfer. Same with Jordan.

SharkHawk wrote:Where have our heroes gone? It's hard to find somebody to buy into and pattern your life after it seems. You almost have to wait until a guy dies and hope he doesn't do anything nutty before you can put your faith in them and follow them. I guess that's why I follow my father's example so closely. He's not around anymore to goof it up.... oh, and he was a pretty amazing guy as well.

Maybe it's just me, but I just can't get behind the idea of "finding somebody to buy into and pattern your life after." That actually sounds creepy as hell to me.

People are flawed. Deeply, deeply flawed, no matter who they are. I think you can respect a heroic ACTION, and you can adopt a viewpoint, practice, or belief that you find admirable... but wholly buying into a person seems like it will usually lead to disappointment somewhere along the line.

Pistorius' fight to compete in the Olympics is admirable, regardless of whatever it was he did this morning. There's the value in admiring the action versus putting a person on a pedestal.

SharkHawk wrote:Where have our heroes gone? It's hard to find somebody to buy into and pattern your life after it seems. You almost have to wait until a guy dies and hope he doesn't do anything nutty before you can put your faith in them and follow them. I guess that's why I follow my father's example so closely. He's not around anymore to goof it up.... oh, and he was a pretty amazing guy as well.

Maybe it's just me, but I just can't get behind the idea of "finding somebody to buy into and pattern your life after." That actually sounds creepy as hell to me.

People are flawed. Deeply, deeply flawed, no matter who they are. I think you can respect a heroic ACTION, and you can adopt a viewpoint, practice, or belief that you find admirable... but wholly buying into a person seems like it will usually lead to disappointment somewhere along the line.

Pistorius' fight to compete in the Olympics is admirable, regardless of whatever it was he did this morning. There's the value in admiring the action versus putting a person on a pedestal.

I work with kids. Many many high risk kids. Kids who have no aspirations beyond being able to someday maybe get a job at a grocery store. That is who needs heroes. I have worked with disabled kids either in a professional or volunteer setting every working day of my adult life (for the last 20-ish years). THEY need heroes, and when they put their faith in somebody and hope to someday become something when the entire world is telling them they CAN'T then it is a good thing to see that, "Hey... maybe if Oscar can... then I can too."

Not everybody has a good life. Not everybody has parents. The place I'm helping out at now (an elementary school that is the lowest scoring one in the state and needs all the help they can get) has a homeless shelter in the boundaries. A lot of the kids I work with each day live there. Many of them have some sort of disability as do their parents (thus their inability to make a go of it). These kids don't just "like" the idea of heroes. They NEED something in their life, and many times it is a monumental thing for them to pick up a book in the library and find a connection to themselves. I was talking to a kid who has struggled a lot with race issues and bullying and such, and he found out that it was Jackie Robinson's birthday that day. He got super excited and started rattling off facts about Jackie Robinson.

Why was that important to that kid? Because he'd made a connection. Jackie had overcome impossible odds and become something. The kid tells me (He's 9 by the way) that, "Branch Rickey didn't believe in racism. He gave Jackie a chance. Jackie went out and no matter how they treated him badly, he just played harder and harder and it made it so that other teams signed black players. If Jackie could do it, anybody can. I WANT to be like Jackie."

How is that "creepy as hell"? I think the fact that you can find the fault in such a scenario "creepy as hell". Because obviously you just don't get it. Put your blinders on and keep on movin'. But not everybody has the great life others do. Maybe you don't need somebody to pattern your life after. But some kids really do. Sometimes they pattern it after me. I take that seriously. They don't dress just like me, talk like me, and drive the same kind of car. But they try to interact with others the way I do, because they don't have that example at home. Patterning isn't a bad thing. All human beings learn through imitation from modeling of behaviors by others (whether appropriate or inappropriate). I know people like me who have been told, "You'll never run again, your leg is ruined" were inspired by Oscar's story. Did I walk around trying to pretend to be Oscar Pastorious and getting fitted for a bionic leg? No. But as an adult, I found inspiration in what he had done on the field. For a kid who struggles with the same issues I have, then they buy into the whole "Oscar is what I want to be like" ideal. When those people do things like this, then it destroys part of the child inside. That's hard to deal with.

I'm not going to be the one to tell a kid, "Well, hey kid... don't follow or pattern yourself after Jackie Robinson, because patterning yourself after anybody is creepy as hell, and I don't want you to try to emulate anybody. Come up with it all on your own and maybe if you're super lucky you'll someday get out of that homeless shelter if you get lucky. Just don't pick a path based on another human being or emulate their work ethic or overcoming long odds. It's CREEPY SO STOP IT!"

Sharkhawk, you further argued his point for him. All the inspiration you listed comes from actions in a certain spectrum, not the whole of the persons life. Both of you found contention in semantics, but your points are virtually identical.

seahawk2k wrote:Sharkhawk, you further argued his point for him. All the inspiration you listed comes from actions in a certain spectrum, not the whole of the persons life. Both of you found contention in semantics, but your points are virtually identical.

Not exactly, because I am arguing that with a kid... they follow differently. They are inspired by a specific action (like running in the Olympics on blades) but then emulate the person in many other different ways. They comb their hair the same way, try to dress the same, try to "be" that person in a way. Then something bad happens and their life is shattered. See where I'm coming from? As an adult... yeah, appreciate the positive, emulate it, try to be as good at golf as Tiger Woods. It's great motivation, and we know that we have limitations and aren't as talented. He's one of a kind. But to a little kid, you're dealing with something entirely different. It's not even in the same realm. It should be discussed differently and blanketing emulation as creepy is a bit misguided.

You try anything you can to get through to a kid and they find something that works for them (like trying to be the next Lance Armstrong) and you don't jump in and say, "Well hey there sport.... take it easy. Let's not follow Lance too closely, because he might goof up and that will throw your world into a downward spiral and you may just quite, join a gang, and murder the old lady in the next room over at your project in hope of stealing her morphine."

It's an extremely fine line you walk when you're trying anything at all possible to give a kid a reason to give a shit about life. It's hard. You beg them basically to find something they care about and you hope they pick a good role model, but in their "real lives" many time there are hard times finding anybody that they can follow, even if anybody was around to do so. They are in situations that are third world bad. So you don't want to stifle that. It's a very very hard situation.

I am sure if we all sat down in a room and discussed it, we'd see a lot of commonalities, and probably a lot of differences too, but I think this is one of those issues that you have to really experience one way or another to have a strong opinion. My opinion is strong. I see others are too. We all want the same things I think though... for kids to learn right and wrong, for people to be happy, for people to make good choices, and for people to become the best "them" they can be, rather than being a wannabe poser/imitation of somebody else. I see the difference. I think we all do. I just have to do all I can in my life and hope it works. I of course encourage my own children to be very careful about role models and I try to set a positive example even when I struggle. But with other people's kids I have limited time with them and I need to be very careful how I "nudge" them in life.