I can remember a day in about 1960 when I became terrified by cirrus cloud and persistent aircraft contrails gradually blotting out the sun and
covering the sky. I was an anxious and over-imaginative six-year-old, and didn't remotely understand the physics involved - just as I didn't
understand, on other occasions, how the sun and moon didn't fall to earth, and how fast-moving clouds could create the optical illusion of the sun
moving the wrong way through the sky.

There is absolutely nothing new about persistent contrails. Just as there is nothing new about human fear, superstition and ignorance.

I commend you for posting this. Most people in Arizona are very aware of the chem trails as we see them almost every day.
I would like to refer some of the" Die -Hard-Contrail-Believers " to an article concerning the late Ted Gunderson ,a former F.B.I. chief in Los
Angeles. There is a video where he firmly states that the" "'Death Dumps" also known as chem-trails are being sprayed throughout the United
States, Canada and Mexico".The website is Intellihub. http:/intellihub.com/former-fbi-chief-poisoned-saying-chemtrails-real. You guys will have to
type it out as I don't know how to link yet. Please excuse any typing errors as some people seem to think it
reflects on my mentality. I assure you it does not! ( my mentality is worse- hah-hah)
All joking aside,This is a serious issue and the reference to E.P.A.
and air quality reports do not address the issue because specific elements and chemicals have to be tested for or you wont get the results. If you
don't test for barium and or its counterparts OR if there is no MCL (maximum contaminant level) rating, then the report can state that air quality is
good simply because there is no MCL for that particular substance.In other words, the results can be misleading and often are. Mr. Gunderson
was famous for handling the Marylyn Monroe and J.F.K. cases and his statements should be worthy of consideration. He goes on to say where and what
type of aircraft. This was in 2011 by the way------ Chard

Yeah, but this is where you are wrong. You are required, according to the site T&C (as I understand them) to provide relevant sources to back up your
claims. If you cannot, then this thread belongs in the HOAX forum, the SkunkWorks forum, or Dreams and Predictions.

The trails in the video are contrails and they are frozen water vapor. I can tell that by simply looking at them. They appear no different than the
thousands of other contrails I have witnessed over the years.

Yes, it is very normal for planes to leave water vapor trails. It is not exhaust, or any type of pollution, but a well understood phenomenon where
either the engine exhaust or the turbulence produced by a jet plane produces a water vapor trail:

Yes, it is very normal for planes to leave water vapor trails. It is not exhaust, or any type of pollution, but a well understood phenomenon where
either the engine exhaust or the turbulence produced by a jet plane produces a water vapor trail:

You're right, but to be perfectly clear, jet engines do produce their share of pollution (although they are relative clean, per pound of fuel used,
compared to an automobile), and some of that pollution could be found in a contrail produced by those engines.

HOWEVER, the vast majority of the visible stuff in a contrail is water, as you correctly pointed out.

If a contrail were the visible smoke and sooty pollution produced by the exhaust of a jet engine, then we would see those big white trails coming from
the plane all of the time (such as at takeoff, landing, and low-altitude flight). However, we generally only see contrails at high altitude, which
tells me it has something to do with the atmospheric conditions at high altitude, and not just a characteristic of the exhaust alone.

edit on 3/6/2014 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)

Mr. Gunderson said that four of the planes were from Fort Sill ,Oklahoma.He also said he had personally observed the planes standing still in
Lincoln,Nebraska and they were unmarked. If you people really care about our air quality go to the geo-chemical survey for the United States. Whats
in our air is also in our water.Ever wonder why our sunsets seem to stick around an hour or so after the sun has set?---Barium Sulfide phosphoresces
after exposure to light. Barium -All of its acid soluble and its water soluble compounds are poisonous. Best of all- Barium compounds are inert
carriers in the extraction of Radium from Uranium.I certainly hope that this isnt a new way of nuclear waste disposal on the unsuspecting public.

Mr. Gunderson doesn't know what he is talking about. These are large aircraft, which means long runways. A KC-135 requires 7,000 feet of runway to
take off. Fort Sill has 5,000 feet of runway available.

I encourage you to read the link provided about Mr. Gunderson. His credentials seem to hide the fact that he was a lunatic. I am sorry to be that
blunt, but if you spend the time to do actual research, it's very obvious.

Please research some of his other claims to verify that his word is not worth quite as much as some think.

If there was an identified base, with identified planes, you could easily find someone who works on ground crew maintenance to explore any of those
planes to see if they had massive spray tanks. You cannot hide them when they would have to hold thousands of gallons of evil chemicals to spray the
sky. Or even file an FOIA to see what chemicals are purchased through that base.

There are lots of ways to investigate this beyond just making the claim and hoping nobody is smart enough to check your work.

You obviously didnt read the article. Why do you people want references when you are not following through with obtaining viable information? The way
people get pounced on here for the mere suggestion of chem trails ought to send some serious red flags out. What the hell is going on?

If you type gunderson chemtrails, you will see that this has been mentioned here many, many, many times.
I know it seems like unbelievable information. And as with most things in life, if it seems too good to be true..........

Why do you people want references when you are not following through with obtaining viable information? The way people get pounced on here for the
mere suggestion of chem trails ought to send some serious red flags out. What the hell is going on?

You obviously didnt read the article. Why do you people want references when you are not following through with obtaining viable information? The way
people get pounced on here for the mere suggestion of chem trails ought to send some serious red flags out.Text What the hell is going
on?

I often ask myself the same thing...'what the hell is going on' at the cognitive dissonance displayed when people get upset at having their pet
hypothesis stomped on because they have failed to engage in due diligence especially when they complain about their respondents doing the same
thing despite the fact it is more often than not untrue. I understand your feelings of being ganged up on because you're trying to posit something
that the majority of people seem to disagree with. The other side of that scenario however is that this topic has been discussed and many aspects(like
Gunderson) have been pretty thoroughly debunked for years on ATS. As Zaphod pointed out, the runway length is a tell tale sign of someone talking out
their rear end and anyone who either knows the field involved or has done the appropriate research into the topic would have found it rather obvious.
Look at it from the other side for a second, people have been presenting information that is factual and contrary to the chemtrail hypothesis ad
nauseum. The first few times or perhaps even the first few dozen times people are fairly civil and respectful when repeating the same information but
after a couple of years of repeating the same information,links and citations over and over like a broken record, well... people tend to get a little
cranky out of frustration. I guess we'd be better off remembering that sometimes you can lead a horse to water but if still can't make him drink
the only option left is to hold its head under water until the bubbles cease to rise. Remember, at the end of the day this is a message board whose
motto is "Deny Ignorance" and that's what most members are trying to do when they offer a rebuttal to something they know is little more than an
over active imagination. People truly are trying to help and at the very least trying to help you see the other side or the other options available in
the hope that you will eventually dive into the research, all the research not just the info you personally agree with, but the hope is to dive into
the research and engage in due diligence and see all aspects for yourself. Nobody is really trying to change your mind or beat up on you so try not to
take it personally when other posters don't hold your hands while singing kumbaya.

Ever wonder why our sunsets seem to stick around an hour or so after the sun has set?

No but then I don't live anywhere near the equator so the sun tends to linger for a while below the horizon. In fact in the middle of summer I can
observer the glow from it moving along the northern horizon if I happen to be up late.

Mr. Gunderson doesn't know what he is talking about. These are large aircraft, which means long runways. A KC-135 requires 7,000 feet of runway to
take off. Fort Sill has 5,000 feet of runway available.

Lol..haha! I new you could not resist! As soon as the words aviation and chemtrails are put in the same sentence...It seems to light a match under
your seat.

1. I had to check fort sill too.
2. I thought it could be B-1 lancers out of Dyess AFB ,Abilene TX. Considering world events. Then I thought that would not be rational.
3. Condensation trails really get you worked up.
4. I was looking at sill for another reason. I didn't go with the runway length reasoning....details..nice.

Edit.
So as it is. It's 24°F outside right now. When I breath. I put off a mist...vapor. do I need an emissions check..?
And folks...I know I know...there's a butt emissions joke in there somewhere..

You are telling me that a high official in the F.B.I.-a Federal Agency-is inept and his information and opinions should not be taken into
consideration.Then you are telling me that the Federal Government definitely has some problems!Why was he involved in J.F.K.s assassination case?If he
was so inept, Who placed him in that position?That was one of the most highly scrutinized in-vestigations in America`s history.To discredit him,is to
definitely discredit "The Powers That Be".How did he gain so much authority and respect?Are you suggesting that there is corruption within our
system?

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