What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

You should remember that USN refused to support horrible Buna-Gona battle, because danger of ship grounding. This left relatively green US Div without artillery support (they could not land artillery or heavy equipment).

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

But you are wrong here. I've had a ship hitting a rock and I remember a forum poster losing a CV because its bottom was ripped off due to a sharp rock......

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

But you are wrong here. I've had a ship hitting a rock and I remember a forum poster losing a CV because its bottom was ripped off due to a sharp rock......

Doesn't happen a lot though, but still ;)

Damn, this would explain some mysterious damages i have encountered on my freighters from time to time..

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

You know there's a Coastal routing choice, right?

One more reason why I can't wait for the official patch.

You may be waiting forever. The betas are stable as can be. You're missing out on a huge amount of stuff if you eschew them.

My recollection is that in the game, don't subs have some kind of advantage in shallow water? Ships are less maneuverable, or something like that that makes them more susceptible to torpedo attack in shallows? Can't find it in the Manual, though. Maybe discussed in a post?

I know that subs themselves are at a disadvantage when diving to escape in shallow water (6.7 in the Manual).

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What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

Ever hear of Battleship Espana? Or HMS Frobisher? Both ripped their bottoms out between the wars. How about USS Guardian? It became a permanent part of the reef in the Phillipines earlier this year. Or the Point Hondo naval disaster? Seven Destroyers played follow the leader up onto the rocks.

Warships don't do good on land. Land had rocks, which do nasty things to steel hulls. Plus ships can't manever , can't go fast and CV's can't launch aircraft, which makes them VERY vulnerable.

Because people in ships generally shy away from land unless it's their destination.

They also have this strange distaste for torpedoes.

I'd rather dodge a torpedo doing 30kts in a wide seaway , then face one at 5kts in a restricted channel.

Unfortunately, when you're talking about sub fired torpedoes, you almost never know there is one to dodge.

That depends on the torpedo type, the water conditions(such as luminecscent) or if the torpedo is shallow enough to cavatite, the light conditions, and the alertness of your look outs or SONAR operators.

All the time but does not work most of the time. The behavior is weird with it, maybe has to do with ship size. I mean sometimes ships even with direct on only decide to do one hex in a coast hex and then return to deep ocean for two and then again to the shallow one..

What's with almost every ship type preferring deep water instead of shallower by default? It is a pain in the ass trying to avoid submarines with waypoints every time. The game does not simulate ships hitting the bottom so why would not choose shallower water when subs are around as in everywhere in the Pacific.

But you are wrong here. I've had a ship hitting a rock and I remember a forum poster losing a CV because its bottom was ripped off due to a sharp rock......

Doesn't happen a lot though, but still ;)

Damn, this would explain some mysterious damages i have encountered on my freighters from time to time..

If it happens, it will show up in the ''ops'' report. Let me see if i can find the post on these forums.

Ever hear of Battleship Espana? Or HMS Frobisher? Both ripped their bottoms out between the wars. How about USS Guardian? It became a permanent part of the reef in the Phillipines earlier this year. Or the Point Hondo naval disaster? Seven Destroyers played follow the leader up onto the rocks.

IRL HIJMS Kaga found a rock during the DEI Campaign...no accolades for the discovery were heaped on the CO though. Quite a few of the US submarines lost during WWII were lost due to groundings - seems to me particularly so during the DEI Campaign. I know that I have read somewhere that charts of the region were very unreliable.

ASW defensive action is far more effective in shallow waters, thus I always send my TFs through shallow areas to increase the chances of an effective ASW attack. I think the risk of hitting underwater objects is insignificant in comparison to either avoiding or killing a sub. I've never run aground, knock on wood. By the way, I'm assuming that the CV air restriction is applicable to only partial land hexes, whether they are deep water or shallow, am I right about that? Hal

ASW defensive action is far more effective in shallow waters, thus I always send my TFs through shallow areas to increase the chances of an effective ASW attack. I think the risk of hitting underwater objects is insignificant in comparison to either avoiding or killing a sub. I've never run aground, knock on wood. By the way, I'm assuming that the CV air restriction is applicable to only partial land hexes, whether they are deep water or shallow, am I right about that? Hal

This exactly..

I would also like to know about the CV restrictions? I have Kido Butai at Cape Gloucester and I have no problem attacking Port Moresby from there..

ASW defensive action is far more effective in shallow waters, thus I always send my TFs through shallow areas to increase the chances of an effective ASW attack. I think the risk of hitting underwater objects is insignificant in comparison to either avoiding or killing a sub. I've never run aground, knock on wood. By the way, I'm assuming that the CV air restriction is applicable to only partial land hexes, whether they are deep water or shallow, am I right about that? Hal

This exactly..

I would also like to know about the CV restrictions? I have Kido Butai at Cape Gloucester and I have no problem attacking Port Moresby from there..

Everything I've heard on the CV restriction says "coastal hexes", which to me means land in the hex.

I've often wondered whether reefs count, and whether some hexes actually have land in them.

I wouldn't be surprised if it just applied to shallow water hexes, but I've never really let it affect my operations - I can usually find a deep water hex with no reef/land to render my lack of clarity on the subject unimportant, or the objective is important enough to be worth the risk.

FWIW, from observation it seems to me that there needs to be land in the hex and not just shallow water. My CAP/strikes when operating between Java and Borneo, for example, don't seem to be reduced in strength.