for gentoo you have the stage1 tarball ... for redhat you have anaconda ... debian based systems have debootstrap

07:24

<gvy>

ogra, I've actually spent some time patching 4.2 (and publishing what was more-or-less reasonable on wiki.ltsp.org) but have since passed working on LTSP5 integration into ALT Linux to a separate fulltimer

07:24

<cyberorg>

i'll have a look at ltsp-build-client and see how we can go forward from there

07:24

<gvy>

now we're pretty much there but localdev :)

07:24

<ogra>

gvy, actually we only use the ltspfsd and ltspfs binaries from the old implemetation

07:24

<gvy>

ogra, ah; those worked

07:25

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07:25

<ogra>

all the surrounding bits (tthe actual stuff that makes it work) were rewritten for ltsp5

07:25

<gvy>

ogra, I've packaged those by hand (sent patches/specs to sbalneav@ but never heard back)

07:25

<ogra>

cyberorg, also you dont need a netboot image ... syslinux should be able to just create that on the fly for you in any distro

07:26

all you need is a chroot

07:27

gvy, the ltsp5 implementation doesnt use lbus anymore but an ssh tunnel provided by ldm ... all mounting happens natively through udev rules on the client ...

07:27

<cyberorg>

ogra: yes, kiwi uses it for another purpose

07:27

<ogra>

... on the server side we have one script and a suid root binary that moves the mount to /media/$USER/<drivename>

07:29

<gvy>

ogra, tnx

07:29

anyone with e.g. kdm goes north-west? :)

07:29

<ogra>

anyone not using ldm, yes

07:29

<fxrsliberty>

cyberorg: someone built an rpm for BZR a while ago but I can't find it

07:30

<ogra>

(which you shouldnt do anyway XDMCP is da evil)

07:30

<gvy>

:]

07:30

<cyberorg>

fxrsliberty: check on BS, it could be there

07:31

<ogra>

gvy, sbalneav is working on an X tunneled communication layer for gutsy (7.10) .... then XDMCP should work as well again ...

07:31

and i'm working on proper hal integration for october

07:31

<gvy>

ogra, thanks for explanation; is there a distro integration I should paste this q/a into?

07:31

*page on wiki

07:32

<ogra>

cyberorg, there is nothing on the bzr homepage ?

07:32

<gvy>

ah, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/IntegratingLtsp

07:32

<ogra>

(http://bazaar-vcs.org/)

07:32

<fxrsliberty>

cyberorg: got it

07:33

<artista_frustrad>

ogra, in your opinion. a Pentium 233 with 64 mb ram can handle ltsp5 ?? with all those ssh calculations for every packet ??

07:33

<ogra>

gvy, well, thats rather general integration notes

07:33

artista_frustrad, yes

07:33

<gvy>

ogra, re ldm: a colleague tells that ldm misses userlist for us

07:33

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07:33

<ogra>

artista_frustrad, it will boot slow though, but should be fine for working ...

07:33

* artista_frustrad got scared after all those presentations at fisl

07:33

<ogra>

artista_frustrad, make sour you have NBD_SWAP=True set in lts.conf

07:34

<fxrsliberty>

ogra: could you tell me the url to get the ltsp bits again?

07:34

<ogra>

gvy, not implemented yet

07:34

gvy, i just started a C/Gtk rewrite that should have some extra features in october

07:34

<cyberorg>

fxrsliberty: on BS ?

07:35

<fxrsliberty>

cyberorg: i found the bzr rpm in the bs, yes

07:35

<ogra>

https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp

07:35

has the most recent code

07:35

<fxrsliberty>

ogra: ty

07:37

ogra: does this come down as source?

07:38

<ogra>

bzr get http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/feisty-ltsp

07:38

will create a feisty-ltsp dir in the current dir

07:39

<gvy>

ogra, well... from mgmt pov it's not exactly sane to roll out a new mechanism for mounting as default (especially breaking the robust existing one) to narrow down dm support to half-written one

07:40

<ogra>

half written one ?

07:40

<gvy>

just as a side note from someone who've seen/done that way too often :]

07:40

ldm

07:40

<ogra>

sorry, but i dont agree ldm is written for a purpose and fulfills this since three releases

1.5 years is quite some time to file a whishlist bug about missing fetures

07:41

<gvy>

nevermind, it's rather a surprise for me, not moaning about how bad all is :-)

07:41

I'll try to

07:41

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07:41

<ogra>

you are free to use XDMCP isf you want to and put time into implementing te old ltspfs if you want to

07:41

<gvy>

actually just got another project seemingly off my hands to go and sub ltsp-devel@

07:42

<ogra>

https://code.launchpad.net/~ogra/ltsp/ldm-greeter

07:42

<gvy>

ogra, well seems like a colleague will go that way ;-)

07:42

<ogra>

feel free to contribute features you miss

07:42

<gvy>

ogra, thanks, hopefully

07:43

it's just nobody happens to like python here. :)

07:43

<ogra>

thats the new code for the october release

07:43

its C

07:43

<gvy>

ah,sorry

07:43

you've mentioned

07:43

<ogra>

for ltspfs you will need to do python

07:43

all the scripts are py scripts ...

07:43

<gvy>

might provoce another friendof mine to look into that, too

07:43

<ogra>

(beyond the udev stuff which is shell)

07:44

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07:44

<gvy>

er... s/c/k/ s/dof/d of/

07:44

<ogra>

just point me to the bzr branches with the changes and i'll gratefully merge ;)

07:44

(a s long as they are not insane indeed ;))

07:44

<Guaraldo>

hi, buddies!

07:45

* gvy murmurs something about civilized world using git but hides quickly. :)

07:46

<ogra>

gvy, you should really think about how you handle devs ... telling someone the project he works on since 2 years isnt mature but not filing whishlist bugs and then moaning about the versioning system a project choose isnt a good start

07:47

<gvy>

ogra, weeeell, hence the mention above on "moaning" and "purpose" ;-)

07:47

I know that kind of start very well, be patient :-)

07:48

actually working with Linux since 1998 and maintaining packages in ALT Linux since 2001

07:48

so basically have seen that enough times (and did myself a couple of them(

07:49

<artista_frustrad>

ogra, is there a tutorial on how to customise the ldm screen ?

07:49

<str4nd>

' Option "XkbLayout" "fi,ru" ' working if I put it to (kb section of) /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf?

07:49

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07:49

<ogra>

me too, thats why i work for ubuntu there you wont see it ...

07:49

str4nd, nope, add it to /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/lts.conf

07:49

<str4nd>

ogra: :o

07:50

<ogra>

/opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/doc/ltsp-client/examples/lts-parameters.txt.gz has all supported parameters

07:50

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07:50

<gvy>

ogra, thanks to your replies, my plan for now looks like: try ldm/$new_scheme, if not, fallback to lbus/$old_scheme; in the meantime, file an FR on ldm re look/feel/lists_my_honey ;-)

07:50

<str4nd>

yeah, thanks! \o/ \o_

07:50

(or thanks again ;))

07:50

<ogra>

str4nd, /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/X11/xorg.conf is rewrtten during boot ;)

07:50

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07:50

<str4nd>

ogra: :P

07:50

<gvy>

ogra, well it's not about ubuntu or another distro, it's about people

07:50

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07:51

<ogra>

gvy, https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ltsp/+filebug :)

07:51

gvy, as i said sbalneav is working on an Xatoms based transport layer ...

07:51

<gvy>

i'm actually quite hostile towards ubuntu's artifical sense of humanity since after lurking/participating for quite some time in sounder@ it was awfully clear to me that way...

07:52

<ogra>

so the underlying transport wont matter anymore

07:52

<gvy>

but that's rather my personal trouble, of course

07:52

<ogra>

shuld be included in the october release

07:52

<artista_frustrad>

can anyone tell me if ltsp manager and tcm are going to show up in debian any time soon ??

07:52

<ogra>

artista_frustrad, ltsp-manager is non existent yet

07:52

<gvy>

ogra, well i hope our CTO will be able to find some time and maybe help -- he's quite keen in X too

07:52

<ogra>

artista_frustrad, there is only a gui but no backend for it

07:52

<gvy>

ogra, once again thanks

07:52

* gvy continues to ML archives

07:53

<ogra>

gvy, cool :)

07:53

artista_frustrad, i suspect the ubuntu packages of TCM should work in debian, there is nothing non-standard in them

07:54

<artista_frustrad>

ogra, is there a way I can help the development of those apps ??

07:54

who do I have to talk to ?

07:55

<ogra>

artista_frustrad, TCM was taken over by pete savage (cbx33 in #edubuntu or #ubuntu-devel)

07:55

ltsp-manager is on my list for october

07:56

<fxrsliberty>

ogra: is there a place in these scripts to shut off the building of the LDM so we can t-shoot the basic bits?

07:56

<ogra>

i wanted to have it in feisty, but then decided to have a set of proper python modules for it first ... so that went into feisty ... now we have python-ltsp to attach *any* kind of gui to

07:56

fxrsliberty, ltsp-buiöd-client doesnt build ldm ...

07:57

look at the 000-basic-configuration plugins

07:57

they have the package lists ... drop ldm from there and it wont get used/installed in the chroot

07:59

* ogra goes back to implement nfs4 in ltsps initramfs

07:59

<fxrsliberty>

it almost sounds like if I can get pxeboot going an build this client i'm all done?

07:59

<ogra>

well, you will need some additional stuff :)

07:59

like generating the X config

08:00

and setting up various things ...

08:00

<fxrsliberty>

that's the replacement for lts.conf ?

08:00

<ogra>

well, lts.conf is still there ... but the xserver in ubuntu has a config tool that gets run if the variables are not set in lts.conf ...

08:01

debian has a similar but different mechanism ...

08:01

the ltsp-client-setup initscript is responsible for that

08:03

<cyberorg>

ogra: we got sax2 -a that autogenerates xorg.conf, so does each client hav their own xorg.conf? and where do they go?

08:03

<ogra>

where the X server expects them :)

08:04

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08:04

* ogra takes a long breath for a longer explanation

08:04

<cyberorg>

/etc/xorg.conf, so what happens when another user logs in with different x setup?

08:04

<ogra>

you chroot gets exported readonly to the world ...

08:04

if initramfs mounts it it wil still be readonly

08:05

<cyberorg>

so changed /etc/xorg.conf resides in ram?

08:05

<ogra>

if you want to write to files you have to create a tmpfs mount for them

08:05

thats what we do in ltsp5

08:05

look at the bind_mounts function in the ltsp-cient-setup initscript

08:05

<cyberorg>

ok

08:05

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08:06

<ogra>

it should work like that on every modern linux, you should be able to just copy that for your initscripts

08:06

<mhterres>

morning

08:06

<fxrsliberty>

ogra: is this the right 000-basic? /downloads/feisty-ltsp/server/plugins/ltsp-build-client/Ubuntu

08:08

<ogra>

thats what Ubuntu uses currently, yes, te one for debian is in the Debian subdir

08:09

<fxrsliberty>

ogra: you are a very nice man I wish I could shake your hand!

08:09

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08:09

<ogra>

fxrsliberty, i'm sure you will be able to at some point in our lives :)

08:10

<fxrsliberty>

;)

08:10

<ogra>

sbalneav and jammcq work hard on convincing mark to send me to the next FISL :)

08:10

and i'll be in portland in july ...

08:11

at OSCON and ubuntulive

08:11

or if you are around spain next month you can find me in seville :)

08:12

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08:13

<fxrsliberty>

well i work for a poor little school district here in NH just about an our south of David Trask so I won't be in Spain any time soon ;)

08:13

<ogra>

but probably in portland :)

08:13

<fxrsliberty>

could be!

08:13

Portland Maine?

08:14

<ogra>

i also heard rumours about a ubuntu conference in boston in autumn

08:14

oregon i think, not sure

08:14

http://www.ubuntulive.com/ yup, says oregon

08:14

<fxrsliberty>

i believe jammcq said so to

08:14

<Guaraldo>

ogra: And what about FISL 2008 ???

08:14

<gvy>

ogra, btw colleague was surprised by overall cleanness of plugin system for ltsp5 -- it required almost no modifications (~8.5k patch, half of which is specific), just plugins on an rpm-based platform

08:15

<Guaraldo>

ogra: Would you came???

08:15

<ogra>

we were thinking abut attaching a ltsp hackfest to that conf

08:15

<gvy>

although there are several snippets to be filed; hope to get to it

08:15

<ogra>

Guaraldo, i'd love to ... lets see if i can get my boss to pay for it ... as i said, jammcq and sbalneav already work on convincing him ;)

08:16

<gvy>

ogra, btw what country are you from? there's a free software conference/expo in Kiev, Ukraine at the end of october

08:16

<Guaraldo>

ogra: It would be wanderfull...

08:16

<ogra>

gvy, cool, yeah, the plugin system is one of the better things in 5 :)

08:16

<gvy>

http://conference.osdn.org.ua/en/about/

08:16

<ogra>

gvy, i'm in germany :)

08:17

<gvy>

you're welcome too :-)

08:17

there's nice ukrainian borshch over here. :)

08:17

<ogra>

but there are some schools in georgia and ukraine that use either edubuntu or ubuntu woth ltsp ...

08:17

so it might be possible to convince our marketing team to sned me to hold a talk ;)

08:17

*send

08:18

<gvy>

yep (two friends of mine worked with ltsp3 -- you might have heard of ltsp.ru; we've mirrored it for folks' convenience)

08:18

<ogra>

nice :)

08:18

i love the east ... i was in wasaw and lodz recently ... but not more eastern ...

08:19

<-- drives a ural ;)

08:19

*an

08:19

<gvy>

ogra, ugh, then you might be interested in summer events in Russia/Belarus

08:19

<ogra>

irbit is near kiev, right ?

08:20

<gvy>

.by one is specifically "european": http://lvee.org.by/index.php/TitlePageEn

gvy, as long as there are no other distros with code branches i didnt find it overly important to announce branch merges

09:40

<gvy>

right after upgrading the server with another 4 spindles and 8-sata mobo

09:40

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09:40

<ogra>

apart from that bzr is build to allow constant merging

09:41

<gvy>

ogra, thx

09:41

<ogra>

gvy, oh, thanks, we can need every small bit of bandwith

09:41

<gvy>

cliebow, ouch, i'm a bit too dumb on dates, sorry

09:41

ogra, well it's on the mirrors wiki

09:41

<ogra>

seems we very much doubled the userbase again ... the servers couldnt cope with the release

09:41

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09:41

<plamengr>

do you have "well working" :) experience with softphone on terminals, I and nf1 have tested linphone, Twinke, and all sound metallic

09:42

<ogra>

we had to put up a static frontpage on ubuntu.com :)

09:42

<tsurko>

twinkle sounds terrible

09:42

linphone sounds metallic

09:42

<pscheie>

cliebow_: are you doing ltsp-by-the-sea this Oct. also?

09:43

<ogra>

plamengr, did you try ekiga ?

09:43

<plamengr>

with MozPhone we understood each other, but the quality was very low

09:44

<cliebow_>

pscheie, generally i have sponsored it when in Maine...

09:44

<plamengr>

we'll try if Ekiga can be set up with our Asterisk server, I think that you need to connect to the Ekiga server

09:45

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09:46

<tsurko>

ekiga freezes

09:46

<nf1>

Hi, I got IRC on the client now :)

09:46

<ogra>

plamengr, canonical uses it for its company stuff on an asterisk server

09:46

<nf1>

yeeah, like tsurko says, the Ekiga freezes

09:46

<ogra>

i'm 100% positive ekiga and asterisk work fine tgether

09:46

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09:47

<ogra>

(at least with the setup we have in the ubuntu datacenter)

09:50

while nfs4 and initramfs dont work fine together ...

09:50

* ogra kicks nfs4 in the guts ... with run-up ...

09:50

gvy is now known as nfs4

09:50

* nfs4 kicks back!

09:50

nfs4 is now known as gvy

09:50

<sbalneav>

I've also used Ekiga, and it's worked fine for me as well.

09:51

In fact, ogra and I have talked VIA ekiga

09:51

<ogra>

yeah

09:51

<sbalneav>

Something we should do more often

09:51

<tsurko>

sbalneav, on thin clinet?

09:51

<ogra>

heh

09:51

<sbalneav>

tsurko: Not on a thin client, no.

09:51

<ogra>

my laptop died last time ... bad omen ... i didnt use ekiga anymore after that :)

09:52

<tsurko>

okay, ot definitely works woth asterisk

09:52

but we can't get it working on thon clinet

09:52

<nf1>

sbalneav, we try to use softphones on the thinclients for GSM Gateway

09:52

<ogra>

(no thet i'D be superstitious ... whistle)

09:52

<sbalneav>

nf1: there was an article on that in Linux Journal last year.

09:52

using kphone.

09:53

<tsurko>

it's about ltsp4 and LBE

09:53

<nf1>

sbalneav, yes, but with LBE and 4.2 that's too complicated. We want to use LTSP5

09:53

<ogra>

with sshfs mounts in ldm in gutsy, localapps should become easy

09:53

i want at least that bit by october ...

09:54

the desktop integration can well go into the april release, but we should have the basics in by october

09:55

<nf1>

so in early may we can use localapps? or in october?

09:55

<ogra>

you can *use* them by october with manual setup ...

09:55

you can use them with simply checking a checkbox in your favorite destop menu editor by april

09:56

<nf1>

april 2008 right?

09:56

<ogra>

(manual setup will mean to install the app in the chroot and write a small script that starts it)

09:56

yes

09:56

<nf1>

manual setup sounds great, october not so :)

09:57

<ogra>

well, you cn do it yourself now already

09:57

<sbalneav>

nf1: You could do local apps now, depending on how much manual fiddling you're willing to do :)

09:57

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09:57

<ogra>

you need to change some code though

09:58

install nfs-common in the chroot and change the default fstab in the ltsp-client-setup initscript to mount /home from the server ...

09:58

install openssh-server in the chroot and make sure every user has a valid key in /home and an authorized_keys file

09:59

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09:59

<nf1>

ogra, I have another statement and question. We are group of people in Bulgaria who are using LTSP and implementing it in schools mostly. LTSP is great, we're using it since version 4.1. Where can we find information of how can we help the project (none uf us is a programmer though)

09:59

<ogra>

set up ldap or nis to have the passwords available on te client

09:59

now write a script that executes your local app and attacheds it to DISPLAY=:6 on the client

10:00

if you now do: ssh $USER@client <localapp>

10:00

you will have it running :)

10:00

<gvy>

nf1, usually it helps to read up on docs and prune them (at least mark what's appropriate for what versions, put timestamps in, etc)

10:01

<ogra>

nf1, well, ltsp5 could need a lot more documentation ...

10:01

<gvy>

since docs are crucial for non-programmers and after one has found a way through them, one usually has some image of what's worth it and what's crap by now

10:01

<ogra>

no development knwoledge required to help ;)

10:01

<gvy>

at least for some /short/ time...

10:01

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10:02

<nf1>

What kind of documentation? and in what format?

10:03

<ogra>

wiki should be fine

10:03

all kind of docs, for special cases like the above one :)

10:03

or just for people wanting to know how it works

10:04

<nf1>

ok, well document what we manage to do with LTSP :). How can we upload it? reg on wiki.ltsp.org?

10:04

<ogra>

there are docs, pretty much everything is already described on wiki.ltsp.org ... but they all could need more flesh and probably better wording

10:05

and since ltsp5 development really goes fast there are often new features that ed up undocumented :)

10:05

* ogra makes a note to document SSH_OVERRIDE_PORT somewhere :)

10:05

<nf1>

how can I keep track ot these new features?

10:05

<gvy>

nf1, wiki is fine indeed; yes, reg

10:06

nf1, e.g. here?

10:06

(annotating existing docs as "v4/v4.2/v5 actual" is very helpful too)

10:06

<ogra>

for ubuntu we put them as specifications into launchpad.net ... apart from that IRC is your best bet

10:06

<nf1>

:) here's good but what if I'm unable to be in IRC for like a week

10:06

<Axel711>

orga: thx a lot for the ssh tip. Now x is left, but need zo go.

10:06

<ogra>

in launchpad you can usually track implementation status then ...

10:06

<nf1>

what's the page in launchpad?

10:07

<ogra>

Axel711, i'm here every day :)

10:07

<Axel711>

:) cu.

10:07

<ogra>

nf1, https://launchpad.net/people/ogra/+specs that would be my personal speclist

10:07

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10:07

<ogra>

look for thin client or ltsp in the list

10:08

sbalneav has such a page as well there

10:08

<sbalneav>

Yes I do

10:08

<nf1>

ogra, thank you very much. We'll try to contribute with what we can.

10:08

<ogra>

hmm, we should have a feature to make an intersection of two speclists ...

10:09

that would get you all ltsp specs from your and my list :)

10:10

<cliebow_>

ogra:you have a central repository for ltsp5 docs?

10:10

<ogra>

only the code tree :/

10:11

i usually add new variables to lts-parameters.tgz ... and write amnpages where required, but thats about it ...

10:11

apart from that i have https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP

10:12

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnableLTSP5LocalDevices

10:12

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowtoWriteLTSP5Plugins

10:12

* cliebow_ cliebow pastes this..

10:13

<ogra>

oh207, and https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients

10:13

meh

10:14

the edubuntu handbook should go back on the web as well, not sure someone is working on that

10:14

its currently only available in yelp format in edubuntu

10:15

but it has a lot of valuable info about ltsp5

10:15

<cliebow_>

great: ill do some 'more' reading..

10:15

<ogra>

most is scotties work :)

10:15

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10:17

<cliebow_>

ogra:know of anyone passing dhcp to ibooks using win--dhcp?

10:18

<ogra>

nope

10:18

<cliebow_>

pete wrote the little blurb..maybe ill tag him,

10:19

<ogra>

i dont think he has any ibook experience

10:20

or ppc generally

10:21

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10:21

<cliebow_>

k..it is so close..works on a g3 bondi not an ibook..

10:22

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10:24

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10:36

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10:36

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10:37

<str4nd>

Yarr, Where is some Good LDM Themes®?

10:38

<gvy>

guess in Central Repo for LTSP5 Docs

10:38

<ogra>

only in the package ... write some ;)

10:39

the shipped ones are in /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/share/ldm/themes/ in the installed system

10:39

<str4nd>

:)

10:39

<ogra>

i'll happily add any theme you send :)

10:39

(or create an ldm-themes package)

10:39

<str4nd>

Hmm, ok. :)

10:40

(looking it tomorrow)

10:40

<ogra>

but note that the gui part is in the middle of a full rewrite ...

10:40

the theme engine might change

10:41

<str4nd>

yep...

10:41

<ogra>

and i'm looking to find a QT dev to have an optional QT gui as well

10:43

<str4nd>

Megant_: Interested about QT?

10:43

<ogra>

actually thats a very good first timer project ...

10:43

the greeter is essentialy only a fullscreen window with one single input field

10:44

and it only needs to drop out username and passwd in an initial implementation

10:44

should be doable with 50-100 lines of code ...

10:46

<Megant_>

hmm, a greeter which uses qt?

10:48

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10:48

<ogra>

yep

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10:49

<ogra>

as an option for kde users who dont want to see gtk widgets :)

10:49

no KDE bindings though ... i just got rid of all the gnome stuff from the current one to only have plain gtk :)

10:51

<Megant_>

yeah

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10:59

<ogra>

OH.. WOW !!

10:59

https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-ltsp/+bug/109303

10:59

somebody is using python-ltsp :)

10:59

* ogra dances

11:00

<jsgotangco>

heh

11:00

<Lumiere>

ogra: lol debug oops

11:02

<ogra>

well, its showing that someone uses it ... even its through a bug

11:04

(i didnt expect that at all yet ... i didnt advertise python-ltsp much yet)

so i'm quite happy to see people finding it and shaking out some bugs before we really use it (in ltsp-manager)

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* gvy is away: ~

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12:12

<[gvy]>

bb folks

12:12

thanks a lot, ogra

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12:53

<gonzaloaf_work>

how to install x11vnc or in general applications on the clients? in ltsp5?

12:54

<cliebow__>

gonzaloaf_work: there is a wikipage

12:54

<gonzaloaf_work>

ok

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12:55

<cliebow_>

it scrolled off.. hang a sec

12:55

https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VnconLTSPClients

12:56

big O in on there

12:56

https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLTSPClients

12:56

balls!

12:56

https://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallX11VncOnLtspClients

12:57

meh 8~)

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13:06

<cliebow__>

Teach2.py

13:13

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13:15

<Q-FUN1>

howdy! one aspect of LTSP I'm having troubles understanding: is PXE support actually needed or does plain old Etherboot work?

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13:17

<Q-FUN1>

as far as I can tell, PXE is essentially Etherboot but with full-featured DHCP instead of plain old BOOTP - od did I misuntrstand that one too?

13:18

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13:18

<pscheie>

Q-FUN1: etherboot works just fine, at least up through ltsp 4.2

13:18

I use etherboot floppies on the clients frequently

13:19

I think version 5 still supports it, too

13:19

<privet>

etherboot is an implementation of PXE (as far as I understand)

13:19

I am using etherboot with success on 4.2

13:19

<Q-FUNK>

privet: I thought it was the other way around?

13:19

<privet>

been using ltsp for only a month

13:20

have 2 PC's running with it...

13:20

so... "as I understand it"

13:20

<Q-FUNK>

ah. :)

13:20

<pscheie>

Q-FUNK: I think your analysis of pxe vs. etherboot is correct

13:21

although I've heard that the etherboot project is working on incorporating pxe

13:21

<Gadi>

ogra: ping

13:21

<pscheie>

not entirely sure what that means

13:21

<Q-FUNK>

I just keep on getting a lot of requests for thin clients that specifically support PXE, from LTSP users. I'm trying to determine what makes it better than plain old Etherboot.

13:22

pscheie: yes, I've sen that too. they are adding PXE support. however, it only seems to work with specific bioses and for building boot roms.

13:24

<Gadi>

Q-FUNK: the PXE bootloader is more configurable than when you simply download an nbi with etherboot

13:24

some people use that property to provide boot options to the end user

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13:24

<Q-FUNK>

Gadi: ok. in what way? I already know about plain BOOTP versus DHCP. what else am I missing?

13:25

<Gadi>

you can setup the PXE bootloader to provide a menu of boot options

13:25

just like with GRUB

13:25

so, the end user can choose to boot from network, locally, boot a memtester, ....

13:25

<Q-FUNK>

ah, ok. that could be usefull.

13:26

<Gadi>

plus you can configure boot options on the server

13:26

<Q-FUNK>

or well, that bootloader would actually be BIOS extension that comes with the NIC's bootrom, right?

13:26

<Gadi>

so, if you want different clients to have different kernel args, you can do it on the server per-client

13:26

which can also be done in dhcpd.conf with etherboot

13:26

<Blinny>

I have an easily-reproduced crashbug in Firefox 1.5.0.10, however running in a terminal doesn't show any debugging output.. FF just exits. What utility can I use to trace what it's doing when it dies? valgrind? gdb?

13:27

<Q-FUNK>

Gadi: right, I was gonna say that it reminds be of dhcpd.conf

13:28

Gadi: I work in hardware manufacturing. I was just trying to determine if getting full PXE support was worth the trouble of licensing a commercial BIOS. for plain Etherboot, we could do it using LinuxBIOS.

pscheie: it mostly seems to be a buzzword that some custoemrs equate with "perfect LTSP support". I'm just trying to verify whether thta is factually true.

13:31

<pscheie>

I'd bet it isn't true, that they're just looking for buzzword compliance

13:31

Mostly, they want plug-n-play

13:31

if it's labeled 'netboot' or some such, most won't care what the code actually is

13:32

or so my gut tells me

13:32

<Q-FUNK>

personally, I've always been happy with Etherboot but some customers insist on getting PXE.

13:34

<pscheie>

quit

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13:44

<privet>

IMHO: some customers do not really know what they want...

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13:47

<Guaraldo>

privet: I'd sey it's normal...

13:47

:%s/sey/say

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15:07

<flying_shell>

good evening guys! I've got a problem with my lts.conf. I'm trying to connect directly to an MS Terminalserver with following configuration:

15:07

SCREEN_01 = rdesktop -f 143.93.32.7

15:07

But all that I see on my Thin CLients is a blank X Screen with an mouse cursor.

15:07

Can somebody help?

15:07

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15:07

<Gadi>

dont use -f

15:07

it will use it by default

15:08

<flying_shell>

just a moment i will try

15:08

<Gadi>

and put the whole thing in double quotes

15:08

"rdesktop <ip>"

15:09

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15:09

<flying_shell>

no change still the same screen

15:09

<Gadi>

ltsp 4.2?

15:09

<cliebow_>

ive got a double quote on both sides of my computer and it still doesnt work

15:09

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15:09

<flying_shell>

here my lts.conf

15:09

[Default]

15:09

SERVER = 192.168.104.2

15:09

XSERVER = auto

15:09

X_MOUSE_PROTOCOL = "PS/2"

15:09

X_MOUSE_DEVICE = "/dev/psaux"

15:09

X_MOUSE_RESOLUTION = 400

15:09

X_MOUSE_BUTTONS = 3

15:09

USE_XFS = N

15:09

SCREEN_01 = "rdesktop 143.93.32.7"

15:09

SCREEN_02 = shell

15:09

XKBVARIANT = NODEADKEYS

15:10

XKBSYMBOLS = de(pc105)

15:10

XKBMODEL = pc105

15:10

XKBLAYOUT = de

15:10

MODULE_01 = uhci-hcd

15:10

MODULE_02 = usblp

15:10

MODULE_03 = usb-storage

15:10

<Gadi>

flying_shell: first off, this should be useful:

15:10

<flying_shell>

LOCAL_STORAGE = Y

15:10

ltsp version 4.2

15:10

<Gadi>

!ltspbot pastebot

15:10

<ltspbot>

Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.

15:10

<Gadi>

!ltspbot paste

15:10

<ltspbot>

Gadi: Error: "ltspbot" is not a valid command.

15:10

<Gadi>

!pastebot

15:10

<ltspbot>

Gadi: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.

15:10

<Gadi>

there we go

15:10

:)

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15:11

<Gadi>

second: do you have NAT running on the server?

15:11

<flying_shell>

jep

15:12

but it couldnt be a network prob, because when i start a normal xsession i can connect to the server

15:12

<Gadi>

do you run xsession to SERVER?

15:13

<flying_shell>

only for test purposes

15:13

<Gadi>

well, then networking could very well be different

15:13

ctrl-alt-f2 and try to ping the RDP server

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15:13

<flying_shell>

thats it

15:14

<Gadi>

:)

15:14

<flying_shell>

no answer

15:14

thanks so much

15:14

<Gadi>

wait

15:14

we can fix it

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15:14

<Gadi>

but, try pinging the rdp server from the shell

15:14

does it work?

15:14

<flying_shell>

jep

15:14

<Gadi>

ah, ok

15:14

<flying_shell>

i think about ip forewarding via iptables

15:14

<Gadi>

nah, NAT will work fine with RDP

15:15

are you using LTSP 4.2?

15:15

<flying_shell>

of course

15:15

<Gadi>

and you can connect to the RDP server running rdesktop from another computer?

15:15

<flying_shell>

jep

15:15

the windows server runs without any problems

15:16

<Gadi>

hmm.. try ctrl-alt-f2, run: /etc/screen.d/rdesktop <IP>

15:16

then ctrl-alt-backspace

15:17

and see if there are any errors on the screen

15:17

<flying_shell>

ok one moment

15:18

only some failures with my fonts but nothing critical

15:18

<Gadi>

did they seem like X failures or rdesktop failures?

15:18

<flying_shell>

X failures

15:20

<Gadi>

and you are sure you can ping the IP from the shell? perhaps try telnetting from the shell to port 3389

15:20

it sounds an awful lot like a networking problem

15:20

<flying_shell>

i cant ping from a local shell (on the client) but directly from the server i can

15:21

<Gadi>

ah

15:21

then it is a networking problem

15:21

ok

15:21

on the server, make sure:

15:21

1. cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward return 1

15:22

2. make sure NAT is enabled: iptables -t nat -L

15:22

<flying_shell>

ok it returns 0

15:22

<Gadi>

ah

15:22

echo "1" > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward

15:22

how about iptables?

15:23

<flying_shell>

ok the ts answers on the client

15:23

<Gadi>

ok - to make it permanent edit: /etc/sysctl.conf

15:23

<flying_shell>

but thers still a blank x :)

15:24

<Gadi>

a blank X?

15:24

<flying_shell>

when i start the rpd connection via /etc/screen.d/rdesktop 143.93.32.7

15:25

ok i've got it

15:26

after 14h worktime i've got an login screen

15:26

genius

15:26

but local devices are not functional via rdesktop

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15:28

<Gadi>

flying_shell: thats true because of the ltspfs stuff. I have a package on the WorkInProgress section of the wiki that can get you local devices on rdesktop