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Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by Ikari

Not according to the international rules of the sea apparently. Else they would have been arrested and jailed long ago. Ramming, though, definitely has major repercussions on the international law scene.

I wouldn't have left any survivors.

The pic I posted shows a weapon being aimed at the japanese ship. Ramming should be allowed.

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by Reverend_Hellh0und

Also the size of the ship allows control leeway for the larger vessel, the Ady Gill did a stop and squat..... It's not legal.

They definitely had stopped, but not in the path of the Japanese boat. The Japanese boat turned towards the smaller one to ram it. But it will be settled in court. Because it was documented and known, this will have to be ferreted out. I think both sides are kinda stupid, one for being pretend pirates and the other for whaling. Neither is necessary anymore.

You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville

"I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by Ikari

I think both sides are kinda stupid, one for being pretend pirates and the other for whaling. Neither is necessary anymore.

There are tens of thousands of Japanese consumers hungry for whale flesh--a market demand for whaling. The fact that some company is supplying that need is not stupid, its perfectly rational. If these whalers weren't doing it, somebody else would be.

...this post brought to you by the United States government, "working hard to solve yesterday's problems as we strive to create the crises for a new tomorrow."

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by pendulum_jaw

There are tens of thousands of Japanese consumers hungry for whale flesh--a market demand for whaling. The fact that some company is supplying that need is not stupid, its perfectly rational. If these whalers weren't doing it, somebody else would be.

The act of whaling changed long ago when we began to understand conservation and the impacts overfishing had. Thus we've constrained it. If they weren't doing it, no one else would because we've all agreed not to. Furthermore, they do so under the guise of "research" and we all know it ain't research that they're doing. It's all a scam. The world united and said no to whaling because of the impact it was having on the species; but some people couldn't get with the times and would rather live in the past. Whaling is no longer necessary, it doesn't matter if people still "want" it. Some people want to have sex with little kids, we say no. Some people want to eat endangered species, we say no. Just because there is a "market" doesn't mean that it's necessary or needed or isn't harmful.

You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville

"I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by Ikari

The act of whaling changed long ago when we began to understand conservation and the impacts overfishing had. Thus we've constrained it. If they weren't doing it, no one else would because we've all agreed not to. Furthermore, they do so under the guise of "research" and we all know it ain't research that they're doing. It's all a scam. The world united and said no to whaling because of the impact it was having on the species; but some people couldn't get with the times and would rather live in the past. Whaling is no longer necessary, it doesn't matter if people still "want" it. Some people want to have sex with little kids, we say no. Some people want to eat endangered species, we say no. Just because there is a "market" doesn't mean that it's necessary or needed or isn't harmful.

None of this is relevant to my point. Once demand rises to a high enough level where benefits outweigh the costs (and the promise of profits), somebody somewhere will act to supply that which is demanded.

Those with the necessary resources who wish to have sex with little children are in fact having sex with little children. For example, there is a market for this in Thailand. People saying "no" isn't stopping them.

I'm not saying you're wrong in finding these things reprehensible, just that you're not really looking at it from the right angle.

...this post brought to you by the United States government, "working hard to solve yesterday's problems as we strive to create the crises for a new tomorrow."

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by Ikari

They aren't pirates. They are pirate wannabes. Real pirates don't care for rules and take the consequences of their actions. Still, the Whale War people are within the confines of the law. The video which shows the whole picture shows the little boat at rest and the Japanese boat pulls towards it, at which point the little boat tried to get out of the way but didn't. The international rules are that you can't ram other boats that way. If what the Whale Wars guys are doing was really illegal, it would have been brought up in an international court and they would have lost their official port. Every ship out there needs to be registered to a country, else it really is a pirate ship. While they pretend and fly a Jolly Rodger of sorts; they are not pirates. They have an official port, a country they are bound to. That can be removed, and thus the "pirates" operate within the confines of the law as dictated to them by their home port.

Also, whaling in general should be halted..

Do you mean I would have a court case against one of those ships that haul wood chips to Chinese paper mills as they come into my home port, if I stop my 15' outboard in front of them and they ran over me?...... cool!

If you watch the video, and know anything about boats, you can see the Whaling ship try to pass to starboard of the smaller boat (as law requires), then back engines in the attempt to miss the boat. It’s not like you can stop or turn a ship of that size on a dime.

Last edited by Crunch; 01-11-10 at 06:02 PM.

There is no such thing as a “Natural Born Dual-Citizen“.

Originally Posted by PogueMoran
I didnt have to read the article to tell you that you cant read.

Re: Who's at fault?

Do you mean I would have a court case against one of those ships that haul wood chips to Chinese paper mills if I stop my 15' outboard in front of them and they ran over me?...... cool!

If you watch the video, and know anything about boats, you can see the Whaling ship try to pass to starboard of the smaller boat (as law requires), then back engines in the attempt to miss the boat. It’s not like you can stop or turn a ship of that size on a dime.

I've seen the video and know lots about boats (particularly the physics behind it). The video I saw was rather clear that the Japanese whaling boat turned into the path of the stationary smaller boat. While I know a boat cannot turn on a dime, it can turn.

And if you steered a small boat in front of another boat and claim they ran you over and had video; I would assume that too would go to court to see who did what.

You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville

"I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Re: Who's at fault?

Originally Posted by pendulum_jaw

None of this is relevant to my point. Once demand rises to a high enough level where benefits outweigh the costs (and the promise of profits), somebody somewhere will act to supply that which is demanded.

Those with the necessary resources who wish to have sex with little children are in fact having sex with little children. For example, there is a market for this in Thailand. People saying "no" isn't stopping them.

I'm not saying you're wrong in finding these things reprehensible, just that you're not really looking at it from the right angle.

Hmm, ok. I think I was saying something similar but on the other side. But yeah, there is a market and there is a way to supply for that market. Either or, I don't think whaling is necessary anymore.

You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville

"I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

Re: Who's at fault?

[quote=Crunch;1058480203]

Do you mean I would have a court case against one of those ships that haul wood chips to Chinese paper mills as they come into my home port, if I stop my 15' outboard in front of them and they ran over me?

That would not be deliberate....

If you watch the video, and know anything about boats, you can see the Whaling ship try to pass to starboard of the smaller boat (as law requires), then back engines in the attempt to miss the boat. It’s not like you can stop or turn a ship of that size on a dime.

C'mon, Crunch, he turned to starboard, then hard port....
When you back engines, you don't turn that hard, unless the wheel is hard over....
We both know he intended to ram & he did......