Posted - 01/03/2010 : 13:17:43 Alright, I know there won't be a taxi squad, but if there was one. Who would be on it and why?I think a taxi squad would be great for reasons such as if the powerplay wasn't working than you have someone like Mike Green.

Posted - 01/05/2010 : 10:44:52 The 3 players on the Taxi Squad should be

Brad Richards- Had the most points for Canada in the last Olympics and is 3rd in the NHL in points out of all Canadian players this year.

Marc Savard- Has averaged 89.75 points in the NHL for the last 4 full seasons and only Joe Thornton has more assists in those seasons.

Dion Phaneuf- Averaged 51.5 points per year in has career and is the best hitter in the league.

Beans15

Posted - 01/05/2010 : 08:27:01

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Man, that Green kid must be getting a plus every time he's on the powerplay and a goal is scored the way you guys talk about how bad his defence is.

Leaving out the +/- stat for real "defensive defencmen" who often play against every team's top line and therefore see the brunt of most team's offences (Mike Green is not used too often in this role so we can discount it), it is a fair measure of his effectiveness combined with the effectiveness of the player on the ice at that time. So, obviously, better team = better plus minus, and playing with great defensive players = higher plus minus, and all that is combined with who you play against.

So how did Mike Green get above +10 if he is so bad defensively in his own end? Is he playing with a Scott Stevens in his prime? Does the goalie just play exceptionally well when he's on the ice? Is he just lucky?

Go ahead, ask yourself these questions, see if you can find some answers . . .

Let's take a quick look at the +/- numbers via NHL.com. So we are clear, the formula is

Total Goal For - PP goal for

minus

Total Goals Against - PP goals against (or better put, goals scored while on the PK).

Let's compare a couple of players who are similar in both being elite offensive defensemen who play about 20% of time in the PP, very little time on the PK, and more often than not are playing with their respective teams top Line.

Mike Green

79(goals for) - 31 (pp goals for) = 48

43(goals against) - 8 (pp goals against) = 35

48 - 35 = +13

Thomas Kaberle

55 (goals for) - 24(pp goals for) = 31

40(goals against) - 2(pp goals against) = 38

31 - 38 = -7

This is where the +/- is a bad number. Kaberle has actually be on the ice for fewer bad defensive impact plays even strength. But because his Penalty kill is actually better than Green's(or while they were on the ice) and because Green's team is significantly offensive supperior to the Leaf's. Green's +/- stats are a landslide better.

+/-, in my opinion, is only a good stat when looking at players on the same teams because it is so team dependant, it is really a garbage stat to use to compare players or to measure defensive abilities.

So to answer the question Slozo, the reason Mike Green's +/- is high is because he has been on the ice for most goals for than any other NHL defenseman.

Alex116

Posted - 01/04/2010 : 10:50:28 Couldn't agree more with Irvine's comments regarding Green. Simply not good enough in his own end to be able to play vs the other best players in the world.

Slozo, part of the reason for this decent +/- is likely due to something you mentioned in your post. He doesn't often play against the other teams top forwards. Why? Prob because Washington can't afford to have him out there vs the best of the best. Same reason Canada can't have him on the team, especially in a short tourney where one bad play could cost you a shot at the gold medal?

irvine

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 21:43:21

quote:Originally posted by Bozonator

The guest post with Green, Penner and Stlouis was mine

Irvine, I agree with you about Green on the defensive side. It is why he is not on the team but I consider him a great pick for Taxi squad. They already have 7 defensemen, who are all capable to play defense, so they would still have 6 great dmen and not 2.5 lines. You would simply substitute him if you need an offensive thrust on the PP, kinda like Sam Gagner was for the juniors back in the day, he rarely saw 5 on 5 time.

I remember back in 2006 where Spezza, Staal and Boyle were named to it. By no means was Spezza good defensively, but they brought in him in case they needed a spark in the offense. I stand by Green on the fake taxi squad, but agree with the roster spot.

You are correct, Spezza is definatley not a defensive player. However, Spezza is a forward. His defensive side can lack when compared to a guy like Boyle, who is a defensmen.

Irvine/prez.

irvine

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 21:42:13

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Man, that Green kid must be getting a plus every time he's on the powerplay and a goal is scored the way you guys talk about how bad his defence is.

Leaving out the +/- stat for real "defensive defencmen" who often play against every team's top line and therefore see the brunt of most team's offences (Mike Green is not used too often in this role so we can discount it), it is a fair measure of his effectiveness combined with the effectiveness of the player on the ice at that time. So, obviously, better team = better plus minus, and playing with great defensive players = higher plus minus, and all that is combined with who you play against.

So how did Mike Green get above +10 if he is so bad defensively in his own end? Is he playing with a Scott Stevens in his prime? Does the goalie just play exceptionally well when he's on the ice? Is he just lucky?

Go ahead, ask yourself these questions, see if you can find some answers . . .

If you factor in the amount of time Mike Green is on the ice for Ovechkin, Backstrom & Semin goals... not to mention his own, I can see how his +/- would be above 0.

If you watch Green play, his defense lacks. And it's very noticeable. I'm not saying he's the worst in the league, but he's definatley not near the top.

You can defend him all you wish, my opinion will not change regarding Mike Green. I'm sure many others opinions will not either. He lacks defensive skill & effort. The ability may be there, but he's not utilizing it.

He's often way out of position, which is fairly common for some offensive d-men to be, while in the oppositions end. But he's also often out of position when he's in his own end. I can't recall which team WSH was playing the other night (Perhaps the LA game) but Green was behind the net, by him self, while the opposition scored the game winning goal. You just can't do these things in a tied game.

Irvine/prez.

Canucks Man

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 21:35:00 For the those of you picking Mike Green to there hypothitical taxi squad justifying it with "If the power play needs a boost" you should no they couldn't just slot him in at any time, a member of the Taxi Squad could only have joined the team had there been an injury.Mine would be, Bouwmeester, St. Louis(the one player I am dissapointed not to see on the real team) and Doan.

CANUCKS RULE!!!

slozo

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 21:24:25 Man, that Green kid must be getting a plus every time he's on the powerplay and a goal is scored the way you guys talk about how bad his defence is.

Leaving out the +/- stat for real "defensive defencmen" who often play against every team's top line and therefore see the brunt of most team's offences (Mike Green is not used too often in this role so we can discount it), it is a fair measure of his effectiveness combined with the effectiveness of the player on the ice at that time. So, obviously, better team = better plus minus, and playing with great defensive players = higher plus minus, and all that is combined with who you play against.

So how did Mike Green get above +10 if he is so bad defensively in his own end? Is he playing with a Scott Stevens in his prime? Does the goalie just play exceptionally well when he's on the ice? Is he just lucky?

Go ahead, ask yourself these questions, see if you can find some answers . . .

Irvine, I agree with you about Green on the defensive side. It is why he is not on the team but I consider him a great pick for Taxi squad. They already have 7 defensemen, who are all capable to play defense, so they would still have 6 great dmen and not 2.5 lines. You would simply substitute him if you need an offensive thrust on the PP, kinda like Sam Gagner was for the juniors back in the day, he rarely saw 5 on 5 time.

I remember back in 2006 where Spezza, Staal and Boyle were named to it. By no means was Spezza good defensively, but they brought in him in case they needed a spark in the offense. I stand by Green on the fake taxi squad, but agree with the roster spot.

where have i read this before ill get back to u on that

Axey

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 17:51:21 Green, St. Louis, Savard.

If they have a problem it will most likely be scoring, which is hard to believe and REALLY unlikely but these guys would bring some spice to the line up in either way. Question Savard, but can you imagine him setting up the snipers on team Canada? 'Gold'en.

Irvine, I agree with you about Green on the defensive side. It is why he is not on the team but I consider him a great pick for Taxi squad. They already have 7 defensemen, who are all capable to play defense, so they would still have 6 great dmen and not 2.5 lines. You would simply substitute him if you need an offensive thrust on the PP, kinda like Sam Gagner was for the juniors back in the day, he rarely saw 5 on 5 time.

I remember back in 2006 where Spezza, Staal and Boyle were named to it. By no means was Spezza good defensively, but they brought in him in case they needed a spark in the offense. I stand by Green on the fake taxi squad, but agree with the roster spot.

irvine

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 17:23:06 Mike Green is an offensive force... but his defense lacks far too much right now. In four years time he may have his defensive side developed to a more mature level, where he can be a Team Canada member.

As for now, we need more well-rounded guys who can score yet play a defensive role. Remember, these guys still have to play D, not just score goals.

We need a solid 3 lines of d-men, not 2 1/2.

Mike Green is just not ready to play a defensive role against a squad like Russia, Sweden, Finland, Czechs or Slovaks.

They'd make him look silly on the back end.

Irvine/prez.

Guest4735

Posted - 01/03/2010 : 17:15:47 Alright, my picks are...

Mike Green- I picked him because of the PP specialist, if the powerplay doesn't click, I think he can do it.I don't pick JayBo because I believe if the top six can't get it done defensively then he won't be able whereas I do think Green would bring more offense.

Martin St.Louis- known for one of the hardest workers and biggest energy guys out there with a great scoring touch. He could bring a spark in

Penner- A risk, but that is why is would be on the taxi squad. Though I agree he has been lazy lately, but if he continued on how he started with using his size and physical strength, he could bring it for Canada