I suspect reality is as follows, and I want liberation from it

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
What EVIDENCE do you have that consciousness carries on long after the physical body has ceased?

When you understand the distinction between the physical vehicle and the abstract consciousness you will see that there is no reason to believe that
consciousness is destroyed just because it can no longer communicate with the vehicle.

Your brain does not have primacy in the equation.

Consciousness itself is not a product of the physical vehicle.

The evidence is the fundamentally non-physical nature of consciousness.

Last night I had the strangest dream, as the song goes, not about putting an end to war unfortunately, but about a very cute, very small monkey that I
let in my _ I kept asking the little monkey to sit on my shoulder, but it wouldn't, it would just tilt it's head and look at me quizically. I
put it on my shoulder, and it jumped straight off like it'd been shocked, and then hid from me. I couldn't coax it back out again. That, in the
dream, made me sad. Wanting to know how to look after it, I looked up what type of monkey it was, or saw a nameplate, or something like that, I can
just remember it being black text on a white background. I woke up, just before 5, straight out of the dream, switched on the light and wrote down
the name. Mainly because it was an unusual name but also I was sure that I had seen it before somewhere. Cutting to the quick, it was a Schuyler
Monkey, which of course does not exist. So now I am wondering why I am dreaming about you and why you are a little monkey. Any ideas?

Perhaps, it's to do with boobs...I should maybe try that thread instead...could I have been wanting you to sit on my shoulder so that you would look
at my cleavage because you need to feel better? Or perhaps to make me feel better? Am I feeling inadequate because I can't make men healthy because
I lack the necessary cleavage?

Interesting...and not even remotely off-topic, if you think about it.

This reminds me of a little parrot I recently had. He wouldnt sit on my shoulder either. I couldnt make him happy and he couldnt make me happy. I
gave him back. Hell it is.

No, my scepticism is getting in the way. My view of religion is that it is false, presumptuous and immature.

I am skeptic as there is no evidence.

If someone tells me "I can talk to Ghosts/Dead People"," Heal people with their hands", "There is an afterlife" - i want evidence to confirm
these claims.

What EVIDENCE do you have that consciousness carries on long after the physical body has ceased?

Forgive me if i'm being ignorant, but what evidence do you have? Present me with it.

There is evidence. But it is not quite what you are thinking of as evidence so it will be very difficult for you understand it.

What you are thinking is your sense of perception is not that at
all. It is the Avoidance of Relationship to Everything.
You are not perceiving reality,you are avoiding perceiving reality.
You are creating the illusion of separate existence by constantly meditating on your Egoself. It is explained here.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
We have no means of knowing what is beyond life itself (currently) so anyone claiming any truth is relying on the fact that no one can prove them
wrong, or right.

This is exactly why the best why to understand this concept is to understand consciousness itself.

I am not claiming I have proof of "life" after death.

I am pointing out that if you comprehend the abstract nature of consciousness there is no reason to believe your mind will be destroyed just because
it can no longer communicate with the physical vehicle.

, not because i'm blindly patriotic, but because i love the history, especially our history of inventers and great thinkers.

What's so bizarre about my comments? Before you were alive you didn't have consciousness, the biological body gave you consciousness that you have
now, what makes you think that when the body dies or ceases that this will magically carry on?

It's not that i'm a pessimist or i wish people didn't get a 2nd life. I'm just thinking about this logically.

, not because i'm blindly patriotic, but because i love the history, especially our history of inventers and great thinkers.

What's so bizarre about my comments? Before you were alive you didn't have consciousness, the biological body gave you consciousness that you have
now, what makes you think that when the body dies or ceases that this will magically carry on?

It's not that i'm a pessimist or i wish people didn't get a 2nd life. I'm just thinking about this logically.

there is plenty of evidence for this and there are plenty of shows and stories dealing with just this. The have been too many reports from people with
NDE's to just dismiss this as hallucination, also there are age old stories about ghosts ect...

I believe yes before we are born (since I can not remember this time) that we were nothingness, but then came into being and that our conscience
'evolves' into being and individuality.

some say it is a test, others say it is a union with the cosmos ect...

there is evidence supporting multiple dimensions and that would mean multiple realities, kind of like we are experiencing as individuals, each is his
own world in a sense.

Ok, so maybe i AM misunderstanding. Maybe there is some truth to this. Maybe i'm just narrow minded as the religious call me.

Have you got any scientific evidence that this is true? I'm very interested if so.

well this is kind of a big mystery, I have not looked deep enough into it myself to be able to post any said facts, but I am sure there is a whole
section dealing with this subject on ATS somewhere if not multiple topic in different sections.

Yours is a familiar viewpoint among people who are at the doorstep to rebirth and new life. Seeing the fruitlessness of your existence and
that of your fellow man, and losing your love for this world and all in it, positions you for the greatest gift our God has ever given us, Eternal
Love which comes with the vision to see your purpose on this planet.

Your purpose is far greater than you can currently imagine. What you need is more clarity on not only Who you are, but What you are. Most people can
handle the 'Who', but growing numbers of people are beginning to come to grips with the 'What'. God-Like. Understanding the Who, is challenging to
say the least. But it allows you to empty your cup. It's about time you contact your spirit to witness and experience the 'What' you are. I would
wager that you will find a new meaning to life and passion to survive, pursue and fulfill it's purpose.

There are many ascended spirits that can help you through the wildeness. I chose the perfect all-light love of Christ to hold me and rebuild me from
ground up. DNA is awakening.

I, as yourself, read the Watcher's brief post and this is what I took from it:

What if you chose to experience our world through a point of view that is NOT human? Perhaps imaginatively adopting the viewpoint of a "squirrel",
a "blade of grass", maybe a "hummingbird" or even a "trapdoor spider" would probably suffice in this endeavor.

And offered here as a possibly blasphemous suggestion; one experiment for you COULD be to try to cerebrally encounter your world via the imaginatively
assumed perspective of a crystal of freeze-dried coffee, a lit candle (one of my own favorites, by the way), a shoe or any other [assumed] inanimate
object...

...maybe even a "rock". Keep in mind here Awake_and_Aware that assigning "human qualities" such as emotions, intellect and moral values to these
"imaginings" would perhaps NOT be an appropriate action. Maybe you could give your imagination free rein for a brief time; maybe not.

Awake_and_Aware, my point here is very simple:

Science is nothing short of being a truly magnificent belief system. It has, to state the obvious, supplanted other systems of belief (here I'm
primarily referring to the belief systems associated with the world's major and minor religions) which have dominated the thinking of humanity for
thousands of years.

However, although science has amassed incredibly voluminous and detailed caches of knowledge concerning, for example, biological organisms (on both
macro and micro scales), science cannot convey [to its believers] how a single frog perceives its own world.

And though there are those who would consider understanding the world viewpoint of a frog as being somewhat less than necessary, I personally feel as
though science should at least apply effort in this regard if for no other reason than contributing to that impressive cache of scientific world
knowledge and, thusly, arrive at an ever changing, dynamic and more complete "scientific worldview". This knowledge could also reflect science's
taking another tentative and courageous step into a perceptibly "larger" world...of its own.

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