Posted
by
Zonk
on Thursday July 20, 2006 @05:19PM
from the pointy-hair-just-getting-pointier dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Sony is reportedly in talks to introduce a new £150 per PS3 deposit scheme across retailers in the UK. The proposed scheme aims to help improve resource allocation as well as reduce the 'eBay phenomenon' which was evident with the 360's launch, deposits were secured from as little as £5 and crafty sellers would sell the console way above its retail price."

In the UK we say "Hit Miss or Maybe", along with the accompanying hand gestures, thumbs up, thumbs down, and horizontal hand with thumb sticking out wobbling. There was even a TV show called Hit Miss Or Maybe.

I guess it can be seen as subtle criticism to the excess of Sony-PS3 articles and all the attention which is being given around here at the moment to all PS3ish things.

Some of us are kind of fed up with all the viral marketing type of articles about the PS3 around here when we have already decided that the PS3 is most likelly a dead fish anyways and even if it isn't we've already made our minds to get something else for our gaming needs so we don't really care that much.

We're talking about "the rest of the gaming world" besides him. This does include the UK, but it also includes the US and Japan, where the console was considerably cheaper. Japan - 17,890,000 units; North America - 32,230,000 units; Europe - 25,880,000 units; Total - 74,000,000 units (source [spong.com]) Europe was only a third of the market on the PS3. All this proves is that the UK is full of suckers, and that only if the majority of the consoles sold in the UK were sold near launch. In fact, the majority of consoles

I didn't say it wasn't obvious. Which you would know if you paid attention. I've noticed that a lot more people are giving completely irrelevant responses to my comments lately, did digg go down or something? The idiot parade seems to be marching through town. However, it doesn't seem to have been obvious to the prior commenter, because they seemed to think that the launch price was significant to the total units sold. However, since most of the consoles are not sold at launch price, it's only significant t

So the PS2 went for the equivalent of ~553.00 USD (going by current rates, but currency rates were different then). The PS3 is going for the equivalent of 786.00 USD in the UK. Both consoles are priced higher in the UK than the US. Why criticize someone's PS2 vs PS3 comparison using USD when you use pounds as your refutation, then neglect to actually bring up the console comparison with pounds? Is it because in both instances the consoles come out to being more in the UK than the US, thus weakening your poi

Because, you know, EVERYONE buys consoles based ENTIRELY on how the graphics look and what the hardware-snob magazines and reviewers say.

I'll probably end up with one of each, eventually. But I won't be buying ANY of them right around launch. Hell, I haven't even gotten around to buying a 360, and they've been out how long now? When there's games I want for the platform that I can't find for anything I already own (other consoles or PC), THEN I'll buy the platform.

I know I shouldn't but I have to bite on this one. So far everything I've seen from the Wii looks quite a bit above the Gamecube in graphics level, which I think leaves it in great shape given that Resident Evil 4 was one of the best looking games of any console of the previous generation.

I've already got a GameCube, I don't need to buy another one. (...) So where are all of these Revolution games that are supposed to be so innovative? So far all I see is a bunch of normal console games with GameCube level graphics.

To me this seems like a good plan, as with every console release the number of people buying systems for eBay has gone up and up. I would be surprised if even half of the people in line at Best Buy last year for a 360 were buying them for themselves...

Even better though, they have got to set a cap on the number of systems you can buy. However I do feel that all of these solutions should be more up to the retailer than anyone, which is why Sony is working with them on thinking through how to smartly work with pre-orders so people who want the consoles can get them.

The retailer really doesn't care, but the manufacturer* probably does care. If people can't buy the units at retail and the only place they are available is eBay at an inflated price, it probably doesn't help the launch of the platform. It probably isn't helpful for game developers either. In the long run, it probably hurts them quite a bit because they waste their initial momentum. It gets perceived as a "bungled launch".*I realize that the term "manufacturer" probably isn't the right term anymore since pr

I would say it's likley that a retailer would be more likley to see people who bought a console at a particular store come back to same store to buy games.Let's say a Gamestop in Podunk, Iowa sells thirty consoles and 20 of them go off via eBay to the coast. That Gamestop may (stupidly) be stocking games for thirty people with only ten customers can be had, and is going to have a rough go of it.

Basically, getting a real customer to buy from a store instead of a middleman generates a lot of goodwill which i

I don't get how it works.Lets say I want to get a PS3, I don't, but for the sake of discussion lets pretend I want one.

1) I go into a store, and ask that they put me on a waiting list.2) They collect my $150 and now I'm on a waiting list.3) My machine comes in, and they sell it to me, anddeduct my deposit from the price.

So, as long as I have money for the deposits, I'm still free to speculate on the ebay market.I'm just not convinced ebay can support costs higher than SONY wants the device to sell forat ret

A lot of speculators may be unwilling to spend $150 now to get an uncertain amount later - some will, but a smaller percentage.Actually, I seem to remember paying $50 for a PS2 preorder before they launched, so I don't think the idea is unprecidented - they just increased the amount.

Frankly though I think the $500 cost of the console alone will deter a number of pure speculators, at least until the first round of purchases and the eBay proce starts spiking. Then everyone gets the eBay fever and goes wild..

"With manufacturing already ahead of schedule"
huh... The PS3 is ALREADY late. It was supposed to launch last spring!
Even with the November release, with the amount of PS3 produced per month (200 000), they won't meet their expected amount of PS3s.
Even if they had 3 millions ready, there's going to be a shortage.
Combine that with a world-wide launch. I can already say that the launch WON'T be ANYTHING but smooth.
In another note:
I'm also pretty sure some law-firm is already analyzing suing Sony for

Sorry to blow through your massive Flame-On there, but the PS3 was originally supposed to launch THIS spring - in JAPAN! Is was always scheduled to launch later in the year for ths US. It is late in Japan but not yet late here. What you are thinking of was mindless speculation that Sony would be "forced" to sell PS3's earlier because the 360 was releasing last year.

Try to find any material that backs up your ill-researched assertion that is w

you're missing the point. It wasn't supposed to launch "in the spring" in any territory but Japan. It was ALWAYS expected to launch during the holiday season in the states, and Europe was an unknown. so FOR THOSE TERRITORIES (the US and the UK) The Ps3 isn't late at all. In fact, since the UK typically has a later launch than the US or Japan, it could be argued it's actually arriving EARLIER than expected there.

Fair enough, except there's not a different "format" of gasoline for each make of car. Hess can fill up my both my Kia(Hey, it was cheap) and my Yamaha, as well as my mother's Ford and my buddy's Nissan.

Actually, at least in the UK, there's 2 types of unleaded, 1 type of LRP, 1 type of LPG and diesel.

Not every station has everything. One of the big problems in the take up of LPG powered cars (despite the fuel being half the price) is that they're in the catch where no-one buys the cars because they can't fill them up. No-one provides the chance for them to fill it up because only 3 people own the cars.

2 "grades" of Unleaded (95 and 98 octane, but we measure very slightly differently to you)LRP is "Lead Replacement Petrol". We only mandated cat convertors in 93 so plenty of cars need leaded fuel, LRP has no lead but works on those cars.LPG is as the anoncow put it, Liquid Petroleum Gas, which cars can be converted to use. It's about half the price of petrol. You do lose a few % of power though. The conversion is maybe $1500US or so, which you can make up quite easily buying fuel at $3 a gallon instead

The reason Sony is subsidising the PS3 by so much is to sell as many consoles as they can so the install base goes up - bigger market for their developers. If they can't build enough, the market doesn't grow much, and they might as well have not bothered subsidising them.

Oh well. For every console they didn't build, that's ~$300 saved in subsidies, at least.

that there will be few if any manufacturing defects and the new Bluray drives will operate the almost overwhelming range of launch titles flawlessly as each and every game display 1080p of pure goodness where the difference between the PS3 and 360 will appear so palpable, so distinguishable that Microsoft stock will tumble upon the very whisper of the name, "PS3". Like Chuck Norris before it, the very name PS3 will command respect and strike fear in the competition.

Seriously, you must be young... I've seen every console launch in the last 20 years and vaguely remember a few prior to that. The best launch, IMO, was the Super Nintendo. SMW & 2 contollers as a pack-in game. Huge step forward over the NES in terms of graphics, more comfortable controller, and did I mention Super Mario World?

The Sega Dreamcast launch was rather impressive too, I was sad to see that system fail. PS2 never impressed me much after playing the DC and I wasn't much of a Ridge Racer

Maybe this was an extremely regional thing, but here in Central Ohio, the PSX launch was a disaster at every store I went to on launch day. Most of the stores got plenty consoles to fulfill pre-orders, but no one had enough memory cards and extra controllers. The one store manager I was talking was telling me how he got plenty of consoles and games, but only a few (~10) memory cards and second controllers. Nothing says fun like taking turns playing Toshinden. Or not being able to save times on Ridge Racer.

Futureshop.ca had something that was even better than this idea.Once they had a tentative allocation # from MS. They began allowing pre-orders of 10 xbox360's per day for a month or two (basically had an allocation of approx 600 or so). So if all of the 10 were gone you'd have to wait for the next day.

One night I was up really really late, and it turns out futureshop.ca is PST time, so I jumped online at 3am EST and was able to secure a pre-order (didn't charge my card until the day of shipping) . And su

This could give atleast a small clue towards decifering the mainstream opinion on the PS3, in the UK atleast. It'd be interesting to see how popular such an option is if it comes to be. Unfortunate that we cannot apply this to the rest of the world opinion, though.

Even better would be if the same deal could go over with the Wii. Now that would be an interesting comparison!

Even better would be if the same deal could go over with the Wii. Now that would be an interesting comparison!

umm... the currency converter here [concierge.com] converted 150 uk pounds to 267.80 US Dollars... would you really want to make a $267 down payment on a consol that everyone is expecting to cost $250 at most?

Ummm... I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here, but just how exactly does that stop people selling the console for extortionate amounts on eBay? They have to buy the console for the full price before eBaying it, so that 150 UKP deposit only goes so far as to ensure they get one to sell on...

It certainly won't discourage entrepreneurs who want to make a bit of cash, and (maybe I'm cynical) looks more like Sony trying to make people commit to a purchase. I'd certainly feel uneasy ponying up a quarter of the console's price before launch.

Not really "+1 insightful", given that the question is raised in TFA. But certainly a valid question. Perhaps you have to pay via some form of card, so that they can see who is buying them and try and enforce a maximum of n purchases?

Perhaps you have to pay via some form of card, so that they can see who is buying them and try and enforce a maximum of n purchases?

They already have a system in place for this, it's called a long-ass line and one unit per transaction. You get in line, you get to buy one machine, then you get back in line. If you're lucky, you get another one. But you aren't, because they don't have enough to give everyone in the line one, let alone more than one.

> They already have a system in place for this, it's called a long-ass line and one unit per> transaction. You get in line, you get to buy one machine, then you get back in line. If you're> lucky, you get another one. But you aren't, because they don't have enough to give everyone in> the line one, let alone more than one.Sure, but it would be extra effort to set up your retail system to compare credit card numbers against orders in all your branches and stop people from buying more than one mac

Also, from the retailer's point of view, why would you wish to prevent sales? The very idea is laughable.

They want to prevent one person from getting multiple units. See, if one person buys them all, then tons of people have to go home pissed off that they didn't get any. Hope this clears things up for you.

> See, if one person buys them all, then tons of people have to go home pissed off that they didn't> get any. Hope this clears things up for you.

No, if one person buys them all, tons of people have to order them and leave a deposit, or look elsewhere. Some of the people buying them at your shop were pissed off cos they couldn't buy them elsewhere. Pissing people off because your shop sold out is preferable to having stock on the shelves because of a pointless `one each` policy.

Pissing people off because your shop sold out is preferable to having stock on the shelves because of a pointless `one each` policy.

That's why I explicitly specified a "one per visit to the register" policy, and if you had actually read my comment you would have known that. Well, that assumes you have more than two neurons to rub together, which given your response, is not a safe assumption...

I read it but frankly I read a lot of BS here. I work on retail systems and I've *never* heard of a single customer of any store anywhere on the planet requesting paid work to stop their stores from selling kit. It's just a fucking stupid idea that you'd never see outside of comments on Slashdot.

Well, it's too bad you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, because a whole LOT of stores have sold only one of a given game console per customer on launch day. I remember seeing it in print ads for bo

On launch day, people are lined up around the block. There are typically more people than consoles. If there aren't, then it's in your best interest to sell multiple units to the same people, because it gets your inventory into motion. If they are, then just getting back in line will mean they only get one. Like I said in several prior posts.

As an aside, this whole POS thing is a GREAT SCAM. We have micros here and it's amazing how you always have to be making these difficult modifications to the screen

people are more likely to return to the same store they bought the PS3 to buy games for it.

Are they really? How strange. I'm most likely to buy a game used off the 'net - but then, I won't be buying a PS3 anytime near launch. Or any other time before it's $200 or less, if I can't run general purpose linux on it.

Well, you might argue that it may be used to prevent people from pre-ordering too many of them. I mean, if you wanted to make a lot of money easily, you could have pre-orderd 20 PS3's at 5UKP for 100UKP and resell them twice the full price. Now, preordering at 150UKP nets you an investment of 3000UKP, which not a lot of people are willing to dump right now on something that is shipping only 5 months from now. That may be what they're thinking.But then, the problem with this theory is that this situation wou

yes, but if they have the confirmed order (or at least believe they do), then they can put it up for auction on Ebay and sell it BEFORE they pick it up. Or just pay for it with a creditcard which amounts to the same things.The credit cards billing cycle ensures that you personally are only responsible for the deposit (since that payment spans multiple billing cycles), since the 'final payment' and the Ebay auction theoretically happen in the same billing cycle you can wash one against the other.

Actually, I doubt it. It's not splashy enough to be a PR tactic. If it was PR, there would be a press release about how Sony was doing this for the customer, yada, yada, yada. Instead what you have is an article in a trade publication being summarized on a web site, which is then linked by Slashdot.

It's just people with nothing better to read/write about overanalyzing every move Sony makes.

what happens is that people preorder the consoles and dont have the money to pay for them all at once. they put down the measly $5 deposits for their xbox360s and on day one they post an ad on ebay for an outrageous amount of money. they wait until the paypal money comes through before they go pickup their pre-order console. at this point they/already/ have the profit. anyone with $5 can perform this type of grift.the plan doesnt prevent the outrageous ebay markups. what this plan does is prevent people fr

clearly people will pay way too much to make sure they get a ps3. I have been at physical auctions before and one of the things they do if they want to sell a bunch of boxes in no particular order is have the normal bid process, then when they have a winner the winner chooses how many boxes he wants at that price, after that they ask if anybody else wants in at that price, once they are done with that they start all over. In a computer implementation of this you would not have to rebid because you have a

... if Sony and eBay could get together and ban the sales of PS3's on eBay for a set period of time. eBay's probably not going to turn away the chance to make all of that money, but I honestly think it would be the right thing to do.

Sony would easily be able to offer eBay more money then their fees for what is a relatively tiny number of auctions. However eBay would NEVER take the money even if Sony offered an extra £1M sweetener. If eBay ban the auctions then people will simply go somewhere else, eBay will do whatever it takes to ensure that this never happens. eBay isn't the best or cheapest auction house, they are only the one that everyone uses and they realise how precarious this could be.The is absolutely no way a high depo

What's wrong with selling on eBay? That's capitalism baby! If sony really has a problem with it, then they just need to supply enough to the market to not have the problem. If YOU have a problem with it, then GO RESERVE ONE. PS3 is going to be a dangerous call. $600 each is a hefty gamble, especially if gamers decide that it's too much.

You make a good point (don't know why you posted as AC). But Sony could convince eBay (with money) to ban the sale of PS3s on the site. That would only limit those willing to spend beyond the original price. If eBay did ban it, then people would just use Yahoo Auctions or some other auction site, so there really is no way to do it well. Nothing stops someone from making a webpage and advertising via google to sell it either.

...but does this mean Sony is confident in their ability to meet demand for the console? If yes, then good for them, if no and they fall short and are unable to fufill are preorders there are going to be some VERY pissed off consumers out there. Not that i'm worried b/c i'm just waiting for Halo 3 to launch at the same time so I can finish playing Halo 2.

As others have pointed out, it doesn't solve the problem of selling the one you've got on eBay for scad of money -- if you'd call that a problem.

The bigger problem as I see it, like the Xbox2 launch, is those dealers which take your deposit and then turn around and sell your reserved console away anyway. I don't see how higher deposits will alleviate that issue.

I have a feeling that this is so that people won't feel like they're paying $600 for a game system if they're actually only shelling out $400 for the system when they paid a $200 deposit 6 months earlier. It's a little trick, sort of like promising rebates, to get people to feel like they're paying less.

A PS2 owner goes into a game shop with £150 just after they start taking preorders.

On the wall behind the counter is a big, glossy PS3 propagan^Wpreorder poster. Pay £150 now, get nothing for a month.On the left are shelves of new Wii consoles + game for £150.On the right there's new and used X360s for £150 or less.

You can probably guess what happens. If not you'll just have to wait 5 months to find out.

dont forget the new video cards for your PC for the same money, and probably easily the horespower of the PS3.You probably already have a PC, and the games are cheaper.There are just too many reasons NOT to get a PS3.

The guy buys exactly what he walked into the shop to buy, because he made his decision before he left for the store...People don't make £150 buying decisions at the register of a gaming store. People don't buy consoles based on what they see in the display case.

The fact of the matter is (much to the dismay of the anti-Sony crowd on Slashdot) that even at the high price, there are going ot be enough rabid buyers out there for the initial allotment of PS3s, and those buyers aren't motivated by games or

I'm a little surprised Sony is attempting to manipulate the market with deposits etc. The people buying/selling on ebay are just responding to the demand.

Sony should respond to the demand also.

The initial release could be the premium early adopter platinum-gold-kryptonite edition with genuine plastic trim and ultrablack controller, with free HDTV TV, games, Sony Pictures DVD's and movie passes included for only $1500. They can then release progressively lower priced versions with less freebies until the

Seems like this is what they're doing... execpt the don't need to throw in the freebies.

Honestly, does anyone think the PS3 is going to stay $600 for any length of time? The early adopters get the latest and greatest, Sony takes them for as much money as they possibly can then in six to eight months they drop the price and start selling them to the rest of us.

When the PS2 launched in the UK, Sony operated a centralised pre-order scheme - you would still pre-order with your chosen retailer, but they had forms issued by Sony, one form for every allocated console. So, if you got a form, you knew you would get a console. You also got a few little extras from Sony.Having gone through the debacle of the Xbox 360 launch - and in particular the poor ability of certain (major online, name begins with A) retailers to issue on a first-come, first-served basis - makes you a

I've maintained among my friends the Sony wants to make as much as possible from the initial over-demand like the 360 had and is starting with an expensive price to make more profits early on. Once the PS3 can be found rather easily in stores they'll drop the price to something competitive.I think their smartest move would be to simply launch the PS3 on eBay. That way they can make most money from those rich kids that I envy so much. Too bas this would piss retailers off so much it would have negative long

They wont be able to resell the consoles on Ebay because at the time of purchase Sony will require a sample of your blood that will tie your PS3 to your genetic code, this does of course mean that you will be unable to lend your console to your friends as each time you play small hypodermics will come out of the joypad and sample your DNA to ensure you are the registered user of the console. No real change in Sony policy there though, because Sony has been bleeding gamers dry for the past 10 years;)

OK, UK Slashdot readers, here's the pitch. In order to buy a PS3, we'd like you to give us £150 now, and the remaining £275 when we actually have one in stock.Breaking down the £425 cost into those numbers is about the dumbest thing they can do in the history of dumbness. Because you know what also costs £150? Yes, a Nintendo Wii. You know what costs £280 now (and knocking a fiver off before November isn't going to cause any pain)? Yes, an XBox 360 Premium pack.

Once the exact release dates and prices are known for the Wii, a lot of people might think twice about pre-ordering a PS3 when they know they'll get a Wii for the cost of the deposit alone, and at approximately the same time. I can see it working for now, but the closer to the actual release dates it gets, the pre-orders might be for the Wii, not for the PS3. Especially since I suspect that if the profit margin for the store is similar for both consoles, they'll push the Wii because it's less of a hassle to

if Sony wants that much money from a customer, will it provide a legally binding contract to provide a console at launch?

Thats the big question in my opinion. If a offer like this was available in the US and Sony was legally bound to have a console for you at launch then I may bite. The problem with the 360 launch, at least in my corner of the US, was that all the game store knowingly sold more pre-orders than they would ever have gotten. On top of that the stores informed you that you would not get a la

would just stop pissing around with these great ideas.
Whatever the deposit is, whatever else they try to do the simple fact is supply will outstrip demand and people will get pissed off and the consoles will be on ebay for silly money.
Two solutions to this, you can either increase supply, or reduce demand. We can assume Sony have maxed out the supply bit, so they now have to try to reduce demand in some way (and seemingly they've been trying their best to do this for months with the neverending fiascos).

Yarrr, there be more than one kind o' pirate, ya know! I doubt they be shippin' those PS3s over to the English Isles by aeroplane, and thar be an ocean ta cross! And what 'ave you got in an ocean? Pirates!

...

Although I'm not sure exactly how pirates would actually use a PS3, I doubt that most pirate ships have upgraded to HDTV yet. Maybe that'll be happen during another raid.