"Education is not preparation for life; education is life itself."- John Dewey.
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Sunday, August 23, 2009

Dodgy Degrees

Comprehensive write-up in the Star on dodgy degrees, a topic which we've blogged a lot about on this blog. Buyers beware!

Aiyo YB Tony, not every one has your brains and more so rich parents perhaps like yours to be able to join top class universities in UK or US.

We also wish to better ourselves, rite? And, most Malaysian universities are so low in standards and studying in one of them may not lead me to a job.

So, we have to work to keep our tummy full. Then in our own extra time we go and study part-time. Yes, I know tradition universities are better than non-tradition ones. But you heard that Harvard started off in a small building but today its the world best, so give people a chance la. We were trained by professionals who are practising experts in their own field, we did assignments and we were engaged in projects and case presentations, and were learning from peers who like myself never had the opportunity to study like you did, but we managed to pass and gain fantastic skills and knowledge even our work colleagues and bosses were impressed with our new found abilities.

So, please be kind to us, YB. I know you are from Oxford but who are we to compare with you.

The rakyat voted you in to help us and you are doing a good job in the parliament but please dont champion by whacking or allowing your platform for whacking people who are less fortunate.

I did my MBA years ago with Preston U and i m proud to say that i have become competitive through the rigorous training in the many seminars. I salute my facilitators until today. They really helped me through.

Thanks for your time, YB.

I hope I made sense. So, people out there please dont feel small if u need to be trained in non-traditional ways. As long as there is learning and improvement of self, who cares what paper you hold. A paper is a paper to any interviewer, its whether you bought that piece of paper.

true, as long you did it through the proper channel like attending classes, even if held in a hotel or a training room, and you have participated and written the case studies or coursework, and you know you have benefited and can contribute in your workplace, so what if it was Irish or Universiti Malaya.

Please understand that some people really have trouble to make ends meet. They dont have the golden opportunities like you to be able to touch Oxford grounds. I know you did well academically that rewarded you to become an Oxford graduate and now with God's kindness also a Right Honorable in PJ.

Please dont look down on others, God forbid.

If really people had bought dubious qualifications, then it is not right. But we studied and sweated for ours. Your DAP collagues who is now a Selangor Top Leader was our classmate too and I can vouch that he worked hard for his MBA too.

Preston is not Bogus! It is just not accredited.

We have never heard of an UMNO supreme council member as Preston graduate. But if he had worked for it, then please be fair to him.

I love to be an Oxford grad too but God perhaps loves you more or He has other plans for me.

Hey Gang, I think we put our resources together and help all our country's unemployed grads. I am one of them, very very sad.

I dont want to go for retraining to be right for the market place. I think everyone has the right to study anything if he or she can benefit from the learning process, dont care if the university is accredited of not but as long as it is not ditching out degrees for no efforts on the student's part.

Agreed??

Help us please! The country is not doing much for us. But I cant shout either. I dont have the money to study overseas AND ALL OUR LOCAL lecturers are inexperienced. However they tried their best.

To those who graduated from preston etc: Stop saying that not everyone can afford to study in oxford and use that as an excuse. How much did it cost for you to pay for the Preston degrees? I am sure it is not that cheap either. If you are serious in your study, you could have at least try Wawasan open uni, OUM etc which is genuine and affordable. Some might laugh at the idea of studying at OUM but at least it is better than some degree mills which is just a short cut, no doubt about it. Best of all, OUM/Wawasan Uni's programem are distance learning.

I worked hard obtaining my PhD from MMU and my total fee for the PhD was less than RM7000! I am sure it is cheaper than your preston DBA or MBA.

One thing I would like to enlighted folks is that look at most of the graduates in London and New York's financial hub that tumbled and led to a recession were qualified from either Ivy League institutions or red brick universities. So don't knock the untradtional universities. Also, it does not mean if you go to Oxbridge or Harvard that you are morally and ethically responsible to the poor and the masses of people around the world living under the poverty line. So for heaven's sake look at the issue in perspective and let people decide for themselves what is best rather than be dicatated by the whims and fancies of people living in ivory towers.

Unaccredited degree-providing institutions are just like pirated DVD sellers on the street. They sell you the copy of what other people have formulated, researched and tested but with quite a low price (some of them are even more expensive than genuine ones), with no accountability and recognition.

People have complained about local universities for not achieving a certain international standard in education, and here we have some people trying to defend and even give credit to anonymous online opportunists who dish out these papers called MBAs and PhDs for money. What a joke!

I know that some of these 'mickey mouse universities' do give you some value in life, maybe sense of pride or progress in career, but please do not put them at the same level with other serious universities who have treated knowledge as the tool to improve humanity, rather than a commodity to make some quick cash.

Even accredited universities in Germany are dubious when it comes to scandal and bribery so becareful when you support accredited universities all the way. Humans are not perfect and have their price so recognised institutions are not immune to the same problems faced by their less recognised or unaccredited illegitimate cousins.

It is hilarious that in one of the mainstream newspapers icons of private education are giving advice on how not to be cheated. However, have readers been given the thought that some of these so called icons have had dubious practices outside their normal scope of work in providing education with partners from overseas educational institutions and making profits from it and authorities closing one eye to such practices by telling plaintifs to not take up a case because it will embaress political figures.

I think Alain Chong teaches in Wawasan OU. Are you one of those who turned out "Unemployed Graduates"?

Wawasan OU is fine but for full time students, never worked before.

Lecturers are all about theories frombooks. Most of these lecturers have not made it big in the corporate world so ho wto teach MBA especially to people who are already in significant position or in a successful business settin?

When you study in a part-time environment, at least you can learn from your peers as well as from seminar leaders with vast executive and business experience.

And, most universities (including UTAR) do not allow their faculty members to be involved in consultancy work outside their brick walls, so how can they bring back whats current to share in case studies with their hungry students??

Dr Alain Chong, do you want your own child to be street wise who will succeed or a bookish boy who loves to read books and cant see the real world out there?

Leave people be. Your PhD maybe in something obsolete if you do not continue to update rite??

I will pay to sit in a workshop led by industrially qualified facilitators who are perhaps a franchise expert or a HR Director or a PLC Executive Director. You think they come cheap?? Of course not! But I am willing to part with my money for the current and relevant skills these gurus can pass o me.

Surely, no way will I want to be "taught" by DR ALAIN CHONG if his is an obsolete PhD. Or, by YB Tony Pua, eventhough his is an Oxford Masters if he is good in Politics and his former skills in IT which is also obsolete if he does not update himself in that area.

So Folks, dont fret, as long as you did not buy a degree, please carry on an be trained by experts.

In fact all university lecturers should be trained by these experts and gurus. Then they will know how to produce graduates who will have jobs waiting for them even before the pass out.

Be younger brother was retrenched 2years ago. He graduated from UKM. His lacked social skills. I adviced him to join the JC to build up his leadership abilities.

Instead, he and his 2 friends joined a unaccredited MBA. According to his expression, it was a "wow" experience. He said he shivered when asked o deliver his case study answers in front of his classmates. But the encouragement given to him by his trainers, all of whom were people from the industry and commerce.

They used the action learning methods to conduct all the modules.

In short, my brother is no longer the timid and non-communicative brother. Today he is in a well paid post flying in and out of the country as a Country Manager.

I definately have no linkage with WOU or Open Uni. If based on what I said you made this assumption, then I have to ask if you are working for Preston Uni, Irish Int. Uni or Newport Uni?

My point of view is quite clear in the sense that if people are giving excuse such as affordability and time being the main factor why they can't do a course, they should consider distance learning courses.

I agree with you that face to face interaction is important but I would not want to interact with classmates who do have even pass their SPM and yet are doing their MBA.

Yes, paper qualification is not the only thing as one of you mentioned. If so, WHY GO AND GET A DEGREE FROM A DEGREE MILL?

Note the difference between unaccredited universities and universities such as Preston, Newport etc which tried to cheat and even create fake accreditation body!

And yes, some lecturers do not have industrial experience, but are you saying your lecturers from preston, newport etc have?

Lastly, my PhD is not obsolete as you claimed as I received my PhD last year at the age of 28 and I have published part of my thesis in reputable, top ranked journals through hardwork. But this is something those who purchased their degree will not understand.

I would love my children to study in a proper university, mix with honest, hardworking students who earn their degree, and at the same time contribute to the society. Your argument is flaw as you are claiming that those who study in proper uni will end up only reading book and not work in real world. Please note that Warren Buffet did graduated from Columbia and Donal Trump likewise studied at Uni of Pennsylvania. Perhaps they did not teach this to you in your Preston/Newport/Irish Int. MBA.

Did you read the link or the newpaper on Sunday? We are talking about degree mill and this is the topic of discussion. Nothing related to train by trainers, experts and so forth. You can go and do it, no one is saying that is wrong. We are saying you should not purchase degree from degree mill. Next time, read before you comment!

This is so funny. A whole bunch of marketeers for these dodgy degrees and PhDs coming to this blog to "justify" the need for degree mills for those who seek instant status gratification, and to cheat themselves to higher careers.

I'll delete all subsequent posts that does the same after these. The above are nauseaus enough.

another issue is, DONT EVER USE ECONOMY CONDITION AS UR EXCUSE!especially for the experts in industry, with their experience, for sure, there are many sponsor who wants to give them some money to get into real uni. or even a TOP RANK UNI!

FOR U WHO SAY U R EXPERT IN INDUSTRIAL FIELD AND YET STILL GET INTO "FAKE" UNI., ask yourself a question, is your experience is enough to get into the REAL uni.?

go check some scholarship and also sponsor from your so called industry!!

in my opinion, expert in industrial field, for sure can get into the real uni. and pass their requirement, and (no offence) the only reason not getting into the real uni., is LAZINESS....

Dear YB Tony take action on the source of the problem that is recruitment of candidates to public universities via scholarships without preference to race and creed but through meritocracy and not through greed. This will stop the unaccredited organisations in their tracks. It will also stop recognised unis from Australia in exploiting poor Malaysian students as we can see from the exploitation of Indian students. As YB you should see that the public institutions set a good example and not recruit professors with qualifications that are acquired through international trade between nations and that their PhD from esteemed British Unis should not say at the back for use in Malaysia only.

Dodgy degrees are also provided by some dodgy Australian universities which overcharge and are well known to their victims like the Indian students who have been racially discriminated down under. Only feel sorry for those who prescribe to some of these accredited degree mills from down under who get sucked in by these pretenders.

You can check out the degreeinfo.com forum where they have a comprehensive list of UK universities offering programmes by distance learning.

To address your more immediate curiosity however, you can check out University of London, Heriot-Watt University, University of Liverpool, Strathclyde University and University of Warwick for their distance learning programmes.

Preston University is established by a guy called Thomas Leong. I remember one of his lecturers who got fired over a complaint by a student. This complaint was contrived not by the student but by Thomas Leong's wife Cindy Leong. The lecturer said that Cindy Leong is very materialistic in approach and told Thomas to buy her a house if she accepted his proposal for marriage. It seems now he has settled down in Australia but still runs the centre in SS2.

I think the motivation for becoming to doctor is to serve the community and help patients. It is not just about money. Doctors in Clinic work hard but they may be happy saving lives. People like Vivien Thomas spent their whole lives wanting to become a doctor while we have people just talking about money, recognition, being international etc. Anyway, a good doctor who does well in his/her job will definately not going to be paid poorly as well. A surgeon will be paid very well. Having said that, like I say, if pay is the main motivation, then the person should not be a doctor after all. I am glad your niece did not pursue her degree at local university as she might not end up as a good doctor. Of course, the main question I have in mind is how come she can't study medicine at NUS but instead have to do chemistry??? A bit dissapointed with the shallow thinking of the previos commentator.

Give free higher education like in Taiwan and Germany. Then no one will buy fake degree...it is as simple as that..education should be given for free...someone should show the way,,,offer university degree courses for free.