@Aeolus Yeah, but the PS3 came out when people actually had jobs and shit. $500 in this economy is asking a lot, given the ample number of alternatives to the Xbone that didn't exist when the PS3 came out.

That price tag won't dissuade anyone, considering the original xbox 360 was 400 bucks. This includes the kinect hardware, so 500 bucks is easily acceptable. If anything, it sounds to be a respectable buy for a launch console. Now if they went for the 600+ marker, I'd have written MS off for good, this gives them at least a foothold for this generation coming. If Sony unveils their system at anything under 500 though, consider Xbox One boned for good.

The euro price tag however...yeah, MS is the Sega of the US now in terms of not giving a fuck about anyone elsewhere.

@Aeolus Yeah, but the PS3 came out when people actually had jobs and shit. $500 in this economy is asking a lot, given the ample number of alternatives to the Xbone that didn't exist when the PS3 came out.

And it was still a significant deterrent in favor of the (usually) better performing and cheaper 360, nevermind the Wii's novelty, and there was also the blu-ray factor.

Another way to look at is Sony went from first place to roughly tied over the 360 with this, and before this X1 shitstorm it was probably viewed as either the biggest screw up for a console launch or second biggest after the Saturn (that probably still reigns king.) They screwed up pretty badly yet STILL held their own, you think Microsoft can do the same when they're not high above everyone else except maybe in mindshare for English speaking territories?

But like said it depends on Sony. If they can come in at roughly the X1's price then it's a moot point.

Its still going to be a two console market after all the dust settles.Not counting the WiiU.. It would take a string of catastrophic failures to sink the xbone or ps4. I never understand why people want to see consoles fail. Its silly.

You HAVE been following this DRM stuff, right? There's a reason people like me actually want to see this happen, and I'm not one that really ever wanted that before; it's a terrible idea to have on a closed platform and I want the notion it's acceptable to die painfully, especially that 24 hour dialing home crap. This would be an issue with Sony or Nintendo as well.

Exactly - I would like there to be some line in the sand where consumers actually say "You know what? This is not OK. I'm not going to purchase your product if you're this committed to invading my privacy and stopping me from playing your games when I want to and buying them where I want to."

I know that this is not a possibility. There is no universe in which that will happen. But I'd love it if there were.

I never said I was a fan of always on but its not a deal-breaker for me. I knew it was coming sooner or later so I've chosen to deal with it. Otherwise, what? Boycott the system and miss out on some great games? No thanks. If Sony goes the same route, so be it. I'm going to end up with both consoles probably within the next year. I see only minor issues that aren't going to alter the gaming experience. But hey, that's me.

Honestly, the always-on Kinect is a much bigger dealbreaker for me than the once-a-day internet requirement. I never want any of my devices doing things because they think I told them to, and I absolutely never want them watching me.

I never said I was a fan of always on but its not a deal-breaker for me. I knew it was coming sooner or later so I've chosen to deal with it.

No more used or physical games and requiring an internet connection PERIOD? That was probably inevitable. Requiring an internet connection ALL THE TIME? No, that wasn't inevitable, or at least it should never have been a necessity short of going all multiplayer for games (or at least streaming all the time.) It's absurd and unnecessary to protect their games, and as such I want nothing to do with it.

I never said I was a fan of always on but its not a deal-breaker for me. I knew it was coming sooner or later so I've chosen to deal with it. Otherwise, what? Boycott the system and miss out on some great games? No thanks.

If it's a Microsoft game, probably a fairly good chance they'll end up on PC eventually which is where I will then pick them up.