On 7/02/2014 ajfclark wrote:>I was asking what the alternative "leaving it at the anchor" was as the>only three ways I could see of doing it (with the belay device at the anchor>too; with a massive loop of rope from the belay device on the climber back>to the anchor and up again to the tie in point; or with the rope running>from the belay device back to the ground but not back up to the tie in>point) all seemed a bit odd and had the potential for the rope to snafu>out of reach of the climber.

Fair enough. ☺

The alternatives you mention are all variations on the theme that have been tried with various degrees of success/or not, depending on the climb and the climber...

It was Catherine Destiville - mid 80's I think, gri-gri on anchor with no belayer, rope can still pull thru slowly but locks if you fall ....
Or if you get the camera person to twist a bunch of loops into the rope so he can film it locking up, and get another camera to film her untying mid- route . . .

Basically it was a setup! All done for the cameras. Whether she ever regularly used that system is debatable, given the obvious potential issues. But it does allow for some great footage . . .

On 7/02/2014 cliff wrote:>"free end" = the length of rope that remains to pass through the grigri (not connected to you). Its the length that would be in the pack on your back, or left hanging. If hanging, it can be clipped in to the gear as you climb to stop it from fappin around in the wind if that's a concern (as one might do with double ropes).

That is the end I call the tail ;-)

Ok, I now understand what you mean, but I think to do it like that adds another level of potential complexity, at least for me, as I find it a bugger at times constantly ensuring I am clipping the correct side of the rope to prevent snafus, and I have a mental image of a flaked pile at the base wanting to have loop-strands interfere with each other...
The wind would have to be pretty bad, if I ever considered using that option, and singers suggestion of carrying the flaked roped in a sling hanging off the haul-loop appeals much more!

Yeah Macciza, it looks completely setup. Though I have seen ropes get all squirrelly like that from time to time without deliberate assistance.

Thanks Kieran. Enough keywords in that to do some quick reading and see that it's a recognised system and others have made similar comments to mine. Here's a picture I found about continuous loops with extra tagging lines:

On 7/02/2014 Cliff wrote:>On 7/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:>>Ok, I now understand what you mean, but I think to do it like that adds>>another level of potential complexity, at least for me, as I find it>a>>bugger at times constantly ensuring I am clipping the correct side of>the>>rope to prevent snafus, and I have a mental image of a flaked pile at>the>>base wanting to have loop-strands interfere with each other...>>The wind would have to be pretty bad, if I ever considered using that>>option, and singers suggestion of carrying the flaked roped in a sling>>hanging off the haul-loop appeals much more! >>Yup. Its really cumbersome and dreary. And especially a problem in crack climbs

I can see how it would work, even in crack climbs (offwidth?☻), ... though I like my backup knot/s and having a running-backup-knot that requires re-adjusting if double clipping the tail, is just more work on a labour intensive task anyway.
If I was to try it sometime, I figure it would be cleaner to occasionally clip the tail with a separate krab, ... which also then involves more gear... :(

I really wonder about the efficiencies gained in some systems. I have no doubt it can work and perhaps better on some lines than others; but the tradeoffs in simplicity vs potential snafu's with resultant downtime???

Tag lines for this, and that, and the other? It has never been overly problematic carrying the required rack for a given lead in my experience. Tiresome sometimes, but not impossible...

PTPP has a motto about 'there being a better way', but sometimes I wonder if he will re-read some of his contributions in the future and laugh about them!
;-)

>It's probably best to read PTPP's stuff on continuous loop solo climbing.>He explains it all including the (very real) risks of the snafu you are>worried about. If the potential of a major rope snag frightens you (and>I think it probably should) then this technique is probably not for you.

YES.

ajfclark, just because you can find something on the interweb doesn't mean it's good advice,

On 7/02/2014 IdratherbeclimbingM9 wrote:>I really wonder about the efficiencies gained in some systems. I have>no doubt it can work and perhaps better on some lines than others; but>the tradeoffs in simplicity vs potential snafu's with resultant downtime???>>...snip...>>PTPP has a motto about 'there being a better way', but sometimes I wonder>if he will re-read some of his contributions in the future and laugh about>them!>;-)

Indeed! Reading about PTPP's excessively complex solo-aiding systems are the best disincentive to trying any roped solo climbing I have seen to date.