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I've been studying astrology for a little while and during my course of study i have been continuously stumped by the meaning of mars in my chart. I get that the general idea of mars has to do with our actions and how we go about getting the things we want but i have as of yet to get a concrete meaning of how mars behaves in the 8th. I am also aware that charts have to be considered as a whole and not just based on one placement or aspect. To make a long story longer, can anyone give me a breakdown of my mars placement as well as the aspects that affect it, including the notorious Saturn square that has decided to grace my chart?

Look up Mars in the 9th house. With that placement, the mercury-mars conjunction (with Mercury ruling the intercepted 9th house) and a yod pointing to the Sun in 9th (with this Sun ruling the Mercury-Mars conjunction) - I think a lot of things will start to click for you. You crusader, you.

Look up Mars in the 9th house. With that placement, the mercury-mars conjunction (with Mercury ruling the intercepted 9th house) and a yod pointing to the Sun in 9th (with this Sun ruling the Mercury-Mars conjunction) - I think a lot of things will start to click for you. You crusader, you.

Uhhh, isnt my mars in the 8th house? i admid that im just a newb with this but when i have pulled my chart on multiple sites, my mars looks like its in the 8th. Did i miss someting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by david starling

Word for the chart: Meticulous.
Mercury can handle Saturn.

when you say mercury can handle saturn, what do you mean? for the square between the two i have experienced it as me having to really put in effort on things that i want to learn... not to bad just had to learn how to study effectively .

No, you didn't miss anything since Mars falls in the 8th house technically. However, a convention developed whereby a planet within 5 degrees of the next house cusp is said to be read as being in that house. This convention developed because it seemed to have validity in chart interpretation.

And also, there are some of the opinion that is cusp of a house is its strongest point, so anything that falls near to the degree would be very relevant to the outcomes of said house.

Uhhh, isnt my mars in the 8th house? i admid that im just a newb with this but when i have pulled my chart on multiple sites, my mars looks like its in the 8th. Did i miss someting?

when you say mercury can handle saturn, what do you mean? for the square between the two i have experienced it as me having to really put in effort on things that i want to learn... not to bad just had to learn how to study effectively .

No, you didn't miss anything since Mars falls in the 8th house technically. However, a convention developed whereby a planet within 5 degrees of the next house cusp is said to be read as being in that house. This convention developed because it seemed to have validity in chart interpretation.

And also, there are some of the opinion that is cusp of a house is its strongest point, so anything that falls near to the degree would be very relevant to the outcomes of said house.

Let's put Mars in context by analysing the whole chart, see how he fits into the scheme of things.

First, the whole pattern of the map: it features 2/3 of the heavens filled rather evenly (from Leo anticlockwise around to Aries), with 1/3 empty. This pattern is known as the Locomotive due to its resemblance to the drive wheel of the old steam engine. It is characterized by a sense of drving or being driven. Practical accomplishment is very important (which, by the by, is what Mars is about). The leading planet in your case is Venus, who is therefore in High Focus; her influence leads you into experience (into life) and permeates the entire being (chart). Whatever meanings and interpretations Venus carries are of first importance.

The entire chart is formed around the grand trine in Fire; 5 planets are in Fire, a preponderance. Also, there is a t-square in Fixed signs, with Pluto in Point Focus, and promoted by that fact; a second important planet. So the chart (the character) displays a Fixed Fire overtone -- Leo. Leo is found in the 8th, holding Venus, Mercury and Mars...the most planets held in any sign and house; 8th house emphasis (don't forget, the leading planet is here, and 8th-related (by nature) Pluto-Scorpio is in point focus.... In this chart, then, the 8th is where rubber meets the road. We find that Venus participates in both the Fiery and the Fixed formations, building her power in the chart.

Note that Venus and Mars are both in Leo and the 8th. These two planets rule the parental axis and both are strongly afflicted from the 11th-Scorpio. Mars-Saturn are less than 2į square, with Mercury partile square...serious tensions with the father. And Sun square Uranus as well; Sun has acquired added importance because he is lord of the emphasized Leo/8th complex. Study Mars square Saturn carefully...very potent in your makeup.

i admid that im just a newb with this but when i have pulled my chart on multiple sites, my mars

looks like its in the 8th.

Did i miss someting?

.

there is mess and confusion in the area of the so-called "houses"

because

there are at least twenty or thirty different house systemsor means of dividing the so-called "birthchart"into twelve segments of life activity.

In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains represent general areas of life activityand are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
and soa planet in the SIGN of Aries was also a planet in the HOUSE of Ariesso that in effect. there were no real houses as we know them todayHOWEVER DUE TO THE MULTIPLICITY OF HOUSE SYSTEMS TODAY the house location of a planet may changeDEPENDENT ON THE HOUSE SYSTEM CHOSEN

for exampleFor Whole Sign House system the ASCENDANT SIGN BECOMES THE WHOLE FIRST HOUSEand the other houses follow.so then For Whole Sign the ASCENDANT POINT ITSELF can then fall anywhere in the first houseandMIDHEAVEN POINT anywhere in the upper half of the chart.

The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeksand the Hindus (who still use it today).It is the oldest and simplest house system in existenceand immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so

Artificial divisions now known as houseswere attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscopewhich during 7th and 8th centuriesAD were construed or confusedas means of dividing the birth chart.The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites, for example,were definite power points or areas of intense focusbut not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.

by analysing the whole chart, see how he fits into the scheme of things.

"STRENGTH"/"powerlessness" relative to natal planetsis dependent on a natal planets ability to actplanets that are STRONGLY PLACED have ability to actbutUNLESS a strongly placed planethas SUFFICIENT RESOURCESthenthat planet cannot do much - even if strongly placed

House placement of a planet affects it's ability to acta planet with no ability to act is aka powerlesssometimes another planet helps out by providing resourcesbut only if that other planet has sufficient resources of its own

also keep in mind thatANGULAR PLANETS are strongly PLACED for the ability to actbutUNLESS any strongly placed planethas SUFFICIENT RESOURCES with which to actthenthat planet cannot do much - even if strongly placed

With what you made mention in your reply to david starling, I hope you will take the time to consider what is being said by different persons, and not be intimidated or grow impatient by the information dump.

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@Certified Awesome With what you made mention in your reply to david starling, I hope you will take the time to consider what is being said by different persons, and not be intimidated or grow impatient by the information dump.

Interesting that after considering all the information provided david starling himself changed and began using WHOLE SIGN houses

previously david starling used Placidus

therefore

do consider ALL the informationprovided by ALL THE RESPONSESand do not be intimidated by astrologers disagreements with each otheroften newcomers to astrology are unaware of these disagreementsso it is important to CONSIDER ALL ASTROLOGICAL OPINIONS

True. Most don't realize that astrological circles are much more divided in techniques and philosophies. It can look like a monolith from the outside, especially if it is thought that skepticism and doubt comes only from the "skeptics".

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True. Most don't realize that astrological circles are much more divided in techniques and philosophies. It can look like a monolith from the outside, especially if it is thought that skepticism and doubt comes only from the "skeptics".

Exactly - important to consider ALL available informationandALL perspectives are welcomed on our General Astrology board threads i.e.whether or not a member is using Vedic astrologyChinese astrology, Western Sidereal AstrologyModernist Astrology, Traditional Astrologyor their own personal astrological ideasany member may comment using ANY astrological methodology on GENERAL boards

Interesting that after considering all the information provided david starling himself changed and began using WHOLE SIGN houses

previously david starling used Placidus

therefore

do consider ALL the informationprovided by ALL THE RESPONSESand do not be intimidated by astrologers disagreements with each otheroften newcomers to astrology are unaware of these disagreementsso it is important to CONSIDER ALL ASTROLOGICAL OPINIONS

I try both Placidus and Whole-sign, and then see which works best. In my own case, it's definitely Whole-sign.

That's for my own chart. I credit you with pointing out the Whole-sign method. Awesome should give it a try, see if it "clicks" .

I credit dr.farr for highlighting WHOLE SIGNS for all of us members

dr. farr has practised astrology for more than fifty years
and is a member of our forum
but has not posted for some time
however

fortunately, dr. farrs excellent detailed explanations of how WHOLE SIGN works
remain on threads on our forum
for any beginners to study

for example
dr. farr on a thread at
explains in detail the original meaning of the word "cusp"
and how that relates to the correct use of WHOLE SIGN

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword

- so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";

now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses always 0 degree of any sign for anythingbut it DOES use "cusps" points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degreefor timing and other delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century - this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME)

I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...

Ok i thought this might come up at some point. i do see a lot of people using different house systems and i actually did draw up a chat using whole house. my issue with whole house vs placidus is that the shift in placements dont fit the life experiences that i have had. i will give two examples:

1) The sign of aries and the moon are shifted to my 5th house while pisces is placed in the 4th. From my own childhoold experiences, nothing about pisces describes that portion of my life. In addition to that, every piece of information i could find about moon in aries fits my relationship with my mother. Moving the moon and aries to the 5th house in my chart dont really describe attitudes and events related to my life.

2) Scorpio , saturn, and pluto are moved to the 12th house. Saturn being in my 11th house describes my life when it comes to how i interact with others. I tend keep to myself (yes i can be vocal and entertaining if the need is called for but quiet is my default.), I watch people for long periods of time before i even think about considering them as friends. At the same time i also seek to maintain a certain leverage over people. This is more so for "just in case you betray me" purposes. if i use whole sign then none of the new placements fit my experiences in life.

Those are just two things that are immediately visible from using whole house vs placidus and there are may more that i can attest to as well. I chose to stick with placidus because all of the descriptions that i have read about my placements fit that house system. That doesnt mean that im not open to other interpretations or at least hearing how things may be different but i havent found anything that would make change my mind as of yet.

I will reiterate that i am still new at this and that there may be nuances that i have yet to see or discover. But until i come across that information i must go by what relates more to my life experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greybeard

Several planets are stronger than Mars in this chart.

Let's put Mars in context by analysing the whole chart, see how he fits into the scheme of things.

First, the whole pattern of the map: it features 2/3 of the heavens filled rather evenly (from Leo anticlockwise around to Aries), with 1/3 empty. This pattern is known as the Locomotive due to its resemblance to the drive wheel of the old steam engine. It is characterized by a sense of drving or being driven. Practical accomplishment is very important (which, by the by, is what Mars is about). The leading planet in your case is Venus, who is therefore in High Focus; her influence leads you into experience (into life) and permeates the entire being (chart). Whatever meanings and interpretations Venus carries are of first importance.

The entire chart is formed around the grand trine in Fire; 5 planets are in Fire, a preponderance. Also, there is a t-square in Fixed signs, with Pluto in Point Focus, and promoted by that fact; a second important planet. So the chart (the character) displays a Fixed Fire overtone -- Leo. Leo is found in the 8th, holding Venus, Mercury and Mars...the most planets held in any sign and house; 8th house emphasis (don't forget, the leading planet is here, and 8th-related (by nature) Pluto-Scorpio is in point focus.... In this chart, then, the 8th is where rubber meets the road. We find that Venus participates in both the Fiery and the Fixed formations, building her power in the chart.

Note that Venus and Mars are both in Leo and the 8th. These two planets rule the parental axis and both are strongly afflicted from the 11th-Scorpio. Mars-Saturn are less than 2į square, with Mercury partile square...serious tensions with the father. And Sun square Uranus as well; Sun has acquired added importance because he is lord of the emphasized Leo/8th complex. Study Mars square Saturn carefully...very potent in your makeup.

If Venus is having such a large influence, does that give her more power over the chart ruler? Which I assume is JupiterÖ or is this only pertaining to this single portion of the chart?

Since Venus and mars are in the same house and sign, does that mean they want the same things?
I have indeed seen that have a grand trine as well as a kite. I have no idea what role they play. I read that trines are supposed to make things easier with the areas of life they touch but I canít find any specifics for my own chart. Even with all that being said, mars isnít a part of that trine.

With the mars Saturn square indicating issues with the father, can that be interpreted as any father figure or dominant parental figure?
You mentioned that the mars Saturn square is very potent in my makeup and I agree. I have read every piece of literature about it that I could find. There doesnít seem to be any in-depth information about it. While I do learn new things about it from reading, Iím always left with more questions. Can you or anyone else elaborate more on this?

Since there seems to be a some who are more inclined to whole house. would it be possible for you ladies and gentleman to provide an interpretation of what mars means in each house as it relates to my chart.?

You did it right. If Placidus fits your current life-path best, use it. Whole-sign fits mine much better than Placidus. I believe it's possible to change paths later in life, regardless of the best House system for your childhood, though.

Mars in Leo gives you catalytic ability in the field of alternative energy. But Saturn is interfering. The yod plus Leo being ruled by the Sun looks like it's about solar power, since the Sun is where it's pointing.

The short answer is that your natal chart is a Day Chartbecause sun is above horizonandSun is the sect leader of this chartSaturn and Jupiter are of the diurnal sectSaturn and Jupiter are the Sun’s co-sectarians."It's a good thing" for any planet that is of the sect in favor

If a planet is not of the sect in favorthenit is the wrong time of day for the planet.and it's the wrong time of day for your natal MARSbecauseVenus and Mars are not of the sect in favor in DAY charts.FURTHERMOREThe diurnal planets are happierif they are above the horizon in a day chartand below it in a night chart.Likewise, the nocturnal planets are happierif they are above the horizon in a night chartand below it in a day chart.This is not really a condition of sect—it does not define sect in any way.This is only a way to further determine the strengthor mood of any particular planet.And it’s only adding or subtracting mildly from the planet.thuswith reference to this particular natal chartyour natal MARS being not of the sect in favoras well as being above the horizon in a Day chartis not happy