Frank, second biggest month. I had 407 last month. This is my third 400+ mile month. Running everyday helps to make it easier.

That's awesome. How are you feeling about 2:43 pace?

I'm probably going to switch to 7 days once we get through the first few months of kid#3. I just did the math and a 12 week program for Boston starts on Jan 27th. I think I'll go into survival mode for the first four months, hopefully keep around 40 mpw spread out wherever I can get them, then ramp back up for the 12 weeks before Boston. I've never done a 12 week program, but coming off the two 18 week blocks I did this year, I think I should be ok.

Man up Frank!! Do the full 18 week program and get out there and kill your PR at Boston.

dkggpeters - based on the paces you were doing those 1000's at in one of your weekly posts, I think 2:43 is sandbagging. I recently ran a 16:27 5k, am aiming for a 1:15-1:16 HM in November, and plan to break 2:40 at Boston 2014 and I'm doing my 1000's in 3:18 - which I believe is right around where you were doing yours. You can be honest with us.....should we be expecting you to absolutely crush 2:43 this year???

I won't be able to compete with the mileage that a lot of you animals are putting up until I get back into marathon training in December, but I did manage 221 miles and a 5K PR last month. I'm not thrilled about the low mileage, but I need to remember that running is a pastime and sometimes real life is just going to be busy.

2:45! no chance this year. Goal A 2:47 . Goal B sub 2:50. but it might be slower. the next five weeks of training will determine the pace but I am running based on my HR. probably wont even look at the time until i cross the finish line. i prefer not having to worry about the pace during the race.

2:45! no chance this year. Goal A 2:47 . Goal B sub 2:50. but it might be slower. the next five weeks of training will determine the pace but I am running based on my HR. probably wont even look at the time until i cross the finish line. i prefer not having to worry about the pace during the race.

Saw a back specialist today and after a very throrough evaluation, I got the all clear to resume my training. I did find out that my lower back strength is comparable to an 80 year old woman! This coupled with some super taut hamstrings, was causing most of my problems. I hate core work and stretching, but I guess I have to now.

i plan on picking up training where I left off. I have missed 6 of the last 11 days with 9 weeks from my goal marathon, so according to Mr. Pfitz I should "resume training." Ran 8 snappy miles tonight and felt great. What does everyone think about resuming the Pfitz 12/85 plan at this stage?

SwampAngel - good news about the back. The best exercises for your core are the big compound ones: squats and deadlifts. Most non-athletic medical professionals prescribe the same exercises to a 78 year old woman and a 23 year old man. Every doctor that's ever looked at my knee prescribes leg extensions: sit in a chair and extend your leg and flex your quad. That's a pansy bogus exercise that might work for my grandma. It wasn't until I started doing real exercises that my knee started getting better.

Also, don't read too much into the stiff hamstrings. Again, every PT I've ever been to says I need to work on flexibility. One put me through 2 months of torture, basically assaulting me at every visit by contorting my body into extreme positions until I screamed. Then I saw a couple running doctors who never even mentioned my flexibility. I asked them about it, and they just said "meh, I've seen worse. Running will make you stiff". I read something recently, the author said "Running causes a lot of adaptations in your body including increasing tension\stiffness. Why would all the rest of the adaptations be good, and stiffness be the only bad adaptation?"

i plan on picking up training where I left off. I have missed 6 of the last 11 days with 9 weeks from my goal marathon, so according to Mr. Pfitz I should "resume training." Ran 8 snappy miles tonight and felt great. What does everyone think about resuming the Pfitz 12/85 plan at this stage?

Yeah, you are so close to your previous marathon, I'd just pick right up where I left off.

What program did you follow for grandma's? Was it Pfitz? All I remember is that you put in some 100 mile weeks.

Hit a 5k PR this mornig in a 5 mile LT session. The 5k PR was from april 2012. Went 29:46 for 5. Did not feel like l was racing. Feeling good about my fitness right now. Probably should race s 5k to see where I'm at.

Swampangel, be careful about stretching your hammies...this group of muscle in particular do not like to be stretched all that much. In addition to squats and deadlifts, I also recommend doing exercises to strengthn the glutes (especially the Medius since it's the one that gets overpowered in running).

Tight hammies are typically caused by weakness/tightness in the lower back and musculature around the hips. Back bridges are also one of the most effective exercises you can do for both back and hamstrings.

New record week and had some great workouts in there. Sunday's tempo was the first time I've hit my paces in a while and it felt quite comfortable. Today was my first Hanson "strength" workout and it was one of the easiest workouts I've done in a long time. I'm sure it gets harder when it's 3x2 and 2x3 at the same pace.

Frank that is a hell of a good record week. But I personally can't run any miles slower than 8:15 or so these days. It's a personal defect of mine I guess. I try to slow down some days but hate the feeling of slow running. Today was my slowest pace of the week at 7:43 for 8 miles and I did have to wait over a minute at a stoplight so it was actually a little faster. Your Sunday workout (13.4 w/ 8 @6:38) is really solid. Was that on the track?

Frank that is a hell of a good record week. But I personally can't run any miles slower than 8:15 or so these days. It's a personal defect of mine I guess. I try to slow down some days but hate the feeling of slow running. Today was my slowest pace of the week at 7:43 for 8 miles and I did have to wait over a minute at a stoplight so it was actually a little faster. Your Sunday workout (13.4 w/ 8 @6:38) is really solid. Was that on the track?

I've actually learned to like the super slow running. Effort wise, it's closer to a walk and it feels really good the day after a hard workout. I heard someone say the best massage you can do is another run, so I think of it more as a massage than a run.

I was pretty happy with the 8@6:38 mainly because it felt so easy. I was at 6:35 6 miles into the MP segment, but finished with a 2 mile gradual uphill that brought the average down to 6:38.

I was also pretty happy with my long run: 16.4 w/13 @7:34. I was pretty proud of it until you just said it would have been one of your slowest runs of the week

When people claim to not be able to run slowly (or more slowly), the issue is usually mechanical. That's something to work on because if you can open up the slower end of your paces you will make it possible to add more overall mileage to your training. Pay attention to form and cadence and you can do this.

This is so beautiful from A muse, I have to post it here:"I am motivated by the dual prospect of attaining PRs or otherwise fast times and in destroying the egos and feelings of self-worth of those in competition with me, preferably by obliterating them near the finish. If things are difficult in training, I simply tell myself that in order to crush someone's dreams I must work harder and persevere."

With respect to running slow, I have no physical problem doing any slow pace. Mentally it is hard because I don't enjoy running slow and I am always thinking about the other things I have to do. I find these days the only time I am really "in the moment" and listening to my body while running is when I'm doing speed work or racing. Then I forget about work and any other problems and just focus on what I am doing. Otherwise I am usually thinking about things I have to get done when I am not running.

Workouts don't make you faster or stronger. Recovering from workouts makes you faster and stronger.

When people claim to not be able to run slowly (or more slowly), the issue is usually mechanical. That's something to work on because if you can open up the slower end of your paces you will make it possible to add more overall mileage to your training. Pay attention to form and cadence and you can do this.

so true…it's just so difficult to concentrate on running only when running slower than normal. once my mind wanders, that's when my form unconsciously breaks down.

Running slow is easy for me now! Try running a 6 mile recovery run on a Monday morning at 5 am after a 97 mile week and a Sunday 24 miler. I am lucky to get under 10, especially for the first mile. I have taught myself to run with good form from 8 to 10 minute pace.

Thanks for the advice everyone. I am not going to worry about the hamstrings too much, but I have to say, when the doctor was stretching me on the exam table, my back felt so much better. There are many days that I can feel the physical tension in my body. But tension and tightness are good, right?

When people claim to not be able to run slowly (or more slowly), the issue is usually mechanical. That's something to work on because if you can open up the slower end of your paces you will make it possible to add more overall mileage to your training. Pay attention to form and cadence and you can do this.

Thanks for this tip. I don't think about my form when I slow down. I dunno why. That could lead to me hating slower speeds. When at normal easy to fast speed I think about cadence (170+), breathing (3/2 or 2/2), leaning, arms, etc. But when I slow down I just think about random things because suddenly running takes no effort so I wander. Not that I don't wander at 7:30, but it's a lot less.

When people claim to not be able to run slowly (or more slowly), the issue is usually mechanical. That's something to work on because if you can open up the slower end of your paces you will make it possible to add more overall mileage to your training. Pay attention to form and cadence and you can do this.

Thanks for this tip. I don't think about my form when I slow down. I dunno why. That could lead to me hating slower speeds. When at normal easy to fast speed I think about cadence (170+), breathing (3/2 or 2/2), leaning, arms, etc. But when I slow down I just think about random things because suddenly running takes no effort so I wander. Not that I don't wander at 7:30, but it's a lot less.

Of course you only have to think about form until you adjust. Then it's second nature.

nils: I don't see the value in a VO2 test at this point. It is a measure of aerobic fitness but its relationship to marathon ability (or that of any race distance) is tenuous. A measurement early in the cycle vs. one later in that cycle (or at a different point in the year) will show whether you've improved, but so would a race result.

Has anybody done a vo2max test? Is it the indicator of aerobic fitness? It increases with training? Is there a correlation between vo2max and marathon race result?

I see no value in getting a vo2max test as using a race will give you better information. You can have a high vo2max and be lacking endurance so for a marathon it will tell you much. What you need to do is find a predictor workout that works for you. For me, it is 14 miles at MP in a high mileage week.

dkggpeters, what effort level is that 14 miles at MP? Near race effort by the end? Meaning, what would it take for you to consider it unsuccessful: missed pace or just too much effort?

Has anybody done a vo2max test? Is it the indicator of aerobic fitness? It increases with training? Is there a correlation between vo2max and marathon race result?

Nils,knowing vo2 max isn't that useful. Velocity at vo2 max is slightly more useful, but it really will really help more for shorter distances. Lactate threshold is more appropriate for longer races, and is also more "trainable"; you can affect it more through training.

vo2 max also has a strong genetic ceiling. You can only raise it to a certain point. I've read that after 18 months of training you are probably pretty close to your genetic maximum and can only really increase it further by losing weight (mass is the divisor in the equation). This is the reason most coaches only prescribe a short vo2 max phase for endurance sports. Think of it as a "tuning" phase.

The main reason to know your vo2 max is to impress the ladies at a party. Telling them you've got a vo2 max over 70 will get you laid for sure. If it's over 80, you're going home with twins.

The main reason to know your vo2 max is to impress the ladies at a party. Telling them you've got a vo2 max over 70 will get you laid for sure. If it's over 80, you're going home with twins.

be careful saying that kind of thing to nils

i've done a vo2 max test, and it didn't really work. it said mine was 54ish, when it should have been over 60. the test was walking on a treadmill while doing HR. so it's not like i've trained specifically for walking.

Unireed - that's not a vo2 max test. There are a bunch of estimator tests that all suck, but unless you're wearing the Darth vader mask and running really hard, it's not a real test. Also, being trained for the sport shouldn't matter since it's just a measure of oxygen processing capacity - it's efficiency agnostic. Velocity at vo2 max includes efficiency.

Hey guys no VO max for me last week all boring stuff but Im through week 4 of 18/70 with an 18 miler today my longest run to date. Was a good phycological boost to run a new distance PB.

Finished the week on 62 miles

Nice Work Kiwi. I was right behind you with 57 this week. A weekly mileage PR for me by 4 miles. Finished it off today with a 16 miler at 7:30 pace. Felt good but it was warm. I had to make a 2 min pit stop into a 7-11 at 14.5 because I was so thirsty and had run out of my 16 oz bottle at mile 13. The cashier loved my soaking wet $10 bill.

Considering the heat I had a fairly comfy 7:22 pace until that stop but it was worth it. Man do I love me some cold Gatorade. Pleased to not have a weak week. Frank, that means my slowest run was the 7:43. Not sure if that's a good thing.

Try- great job on the mileage pr. Alot of these guys have run multiple 20+ milers so it probably looks like chicken feed to them but running a new distance pr is always good. My pace averaged just under 8 min/mile but the first half was purposely slow and the 2nd half faster. Next sunday is the same run but with 10@MP yikes.

Unireed - that's not a vo2 max test. There are a bunch of estimator tests that all suck, but unless you're wearing the Darth vader mask and running really hard, it's not a real test. Also, being trained for the sport shouldn't matter since it's just a measure of oxygen processing capacity - it's efficiency agnostic. Velocity at vo2 max includes efficiency.

it was done by the kinesiology department at my university. obviously it wasnt a real test, you have to pay for those, even at the universities.

PK good job on the 18 miler. hopefully you had some gu or something. its remarkable how much it helps. i could never do 18 with 10 MP without extra fuel.