3. Its' perfectly ok that not everything you do in a given martial art is an effective fighting technique, but you'd better be fucking clear about what those bits are for. (This is particularly true of TMA, where lots of the development exercises look like technique. I guess in MMA/Boxing, a sit-up looks like a sit-up so no-one is going to try and sit-up someone to death in a bar fight.)

All of those who are serious about self defense or sport fighting will know that thats a load of bologna and a waste of time.
:icon_blac

Now I've got 5 years into aikido, and was fortunate that my sensei's cross trained. One was a judo coach, another was into karate -- which lends to my viewpoint as that aikido as primarily taught today will teach to to breath, relax, a false sense of security, breakfalls and bad habits.

Now my take on good aikido is to include *proper* atemi (not the bull pucky classical tsuki where you leave your arm out to be grabbed, but how to hit someone in the face, it'll help your technique, seriously), and include varying degrees of resistence to the techniques. Add the understanding that, as was put earler, make the circles smaller... abbreviate and improvise a bit. You won't have room for a tsuki kote gishe (sp?) in a bar, and no one is ever going to punch that way in a realistic standpoint. That should be the realization during the multiple attacker randori sessions, but unfortunately IMHO that is lost because it is just too frick'n compliant.

The OP seems open, and he's not spouting (yet) that his aikido is teh d3adly, and likes and learns from other martial arts. Cool.

If he starts going on about sensing ki, and the too deadly to spar, then rip him a new asshole. OTOH, if he's not delusional, likes learning stuff from other arts, then let him wear his fancy black skirt and do his ballet.

OP -- your first post probably should have been in Newbie town to avoid the riff raff.

Uh oh OP,
Now my take on good aikido is to include *proper* atemi (not the bull pucky classical tsuki where you leave your arm out to be grabbed, but how to hit someone in the face, it'll help your technique, seriously), and include varying degrees of resistence to the techniques. Add the understanding that, as was put earler, make the circles smaller... abbreviate and improvise a bit. You won't have room for a tsuki kote gishe (sp?) in a bar, and no one is ever going to punch that way in a realistic standpoint.

Have you ever seen vids of the Hatenkai Aikido guys? That sounds a bit like what they're doing. I don't know all the details (don't read Japanese) but it looks as though they're trying to (re?)create a fully noncompliant, full-contact style...

The Shodokan empty hand vs. knife stuff actually looks like it might be rather useful, dare I say practical? (ducks) in a str33t situation, whilst reminding one that knife vs. empty hand is fucking hard without getting cut. Well from some of what I've seen on video anyway. If there was a school anywhere near me, I'd be checking that out to make my own mind up.

That should be the realization during the multiple attacker randori sessions, but unfortunately IMHO that is lost because it is just too frick'n compliant.

Seagal's black belt tests apparently involved multiple attackers going full-on against the defender. As you might expect, it ended up as a manpile with the person on the bottom getting pounded - within seconds. Or the defender getting pushed up against a wall and pounded on.

I was watching that and thinking 'someone might learn something that could save their life in a fight if they did that more often'.

(I should emphasise that next month's MMA/FMA thing is a course, not a match)

As for my posting this on YMAS instead of the newbie page: Self defence needs to be practiced against real attacks, not the gentle ones you get on the newbie page ;-)

I watched that video about alive vs dead drills. I can understand the sigh that came with the link though. We visit a lot of other Aikido clubs, and almost none practice 'alive' drills. Ever. Forget resistance, just the changes in range are going see them killed.

We already practice a lot of 'alive' drills regularly at my Aikido class, though we do practice the 'dead' drills too. I think there is still a place for the dead drills when learning new techniques. I think it's good to start learning any technique from a dead drill, until you get a decent grasp of the mechanics.

Also, the first 'alive drill' you do after practicing forms for a while is usually so embarrassing and demoralising, that it is a really important lesson in itself. Its especially good when we have someone of a different style visit the club, as suddenly there is a whole new bag of dangers we just wouldn't see if made them behave and do 'Aikido' attacks.

I'll admit I don't have a good ground game. I also don't teach groundwork, because it is outside my area of competence. What we do though, is near the beginning of each class (immediately after the warm-up), everybody takes it in turns to play some submission ground work against everyone else. One minute bouts, swapping partners each time until everyone has fought everyone.

We have a couple of ex-judo d3adlys and until recently a bjj guy, who offer tips if they are feeling generous, or embarrassing defeats if they aren't.

Its a useful exercise on three counts. First, it's a great warm-up/exercise. Second, it gives everyone a chance at developing at least a bit of a ground game, without being too heavy for the aikido purists, or older members. Third, it reminds everyone that ground exists and is important.

I'll never beat an experienced ground fighter as a result of this, but hopefully I won't loose against an idiot just coz I'm shocked it's happening on the floor.

I'm not trying to pretend that we are some hard wu-tang Aikido style. We dance around in dresses same as the rest of them, and TBH my fighting sucks. But we do try our best to train intelligently.

Nice to meet you all.

P.S. Thinking of a sign-off but all the Cobra Kai stuff seems to be taken. Might go Deadwood if swearing is ok?

I think there is still a place for the dead drills when learning new techniques. I think it's good to start learning any technique from a dead drill, until you get a decent grasp of the mechanics.

One might suggest similar to teaching my Muay Thai n00bs by having them do lots of pad work. Not shadow/air boxing, but pad work and critique until they have somewhat of an idea how to throw a jab without leaving their face exposed or their arm dangling out there.

Originally Posted by ignorami

Also, the first 'alive drill' you do after practicing forms for a while is usually so embarrassing and demoralising, that it is a really important lesson in itself.

And I'll draw the analogy of sparring hard for the first time. You reckon you're the **** until you relaise that you've forgotten everything you learned about keeping your guard up and not pitching a full on n00bspaz as soon as the bell goes and you eat your first punch >:)

Originally Posted by ignorami

Thinking of a sign-off but all the Cobra Kai stuff seems to be taken. Might go Deadwood if swearing is ok?

How fucking dare you suggest fucking swearing in YMAS, you absolute ****!

I guess I don't really have one main Sensei. When I started here it was under a 1st dan called Martin. He was the shizzle. He'd charge us practically nothing, pay most of the club costs out of his own pocket. Also taught me to drink properly. Legend. Can't comment much on his Aikido, coz I can hardly remember any of it.

He left when I was low/mid Kyu grades, leaving us to run the club at that übernewb level, or have it shut. I took the bull by the horns keeping it running, while getting out a couple of times a week to steal Aikido instruction from clubs in other towns, and attending weekend courses etc.

So over the years it means I've been taught by (if not necessarily learned from) loads of people. Everyone of them nice, helpful genuine people, but no amazing lineage to Japanese masters or any of that. Nearly all of them than better than me too which helps.

We are extremely lucky locally in that pretty much every club round here (UK) has a different approach. Some Aikikai, Tomiki, Yoshinkan, Ki, AikiBudo, some Christ-knows-what, but (almost) everyone open and helpful.

I guess it's our history of having to be grateful for any knowledge that we're offered that we are more open minded than some.