A Christian response to the book entitled ‘The Bibles yes to same sex marriage’ by Mark Achtemeier

Started: Sept 2014

Finished: Oct 3 2014

On a weekly basis I visit my local library website to see what new items have been purchased by the library staff. A recent addition to their collects introduced me to…

” The Bibles yes to same sex marriage by Mark Achtemeier”

I borrowed this book and soon read it and took many notes about it’s contents. The book contains nine chapters all dedicated to changing Christianity into a pro-gay religion and not the moral voice of reason within the USA or the world.

Before I discuss it’s contents I wanted to point out something interesting…

At one point the progay crowd told us…

” The Top 10 Arguments Against Gay Marriage All Receive Failing Grades!”

“Posted: 05/28/2013 1:38 pm”

“Murray Lipp.Social Justice Activist”

“3. Religion: “It’s Against My Religion” (FAIL) “

” Christianity-based arguments lead the way in efforts to oppose the legalization of same-sex marriage in America. References to the Bible, the “sinful” nature of homosexuality, and “religious beliefs” are regularly made by those who seek to rationalize their support of discrimination via religion. Marriage is a religious institution, they argue, and not one for society to tamper with. Given that the U.S.A. is a secular nation, religion should play no role in any discussion about civil and societal laws. In order to legally marry there is absolutely no requirement for a religious ceremony to be held. In this sense, marriage is not a religious institution but a socio-legal one governed by the state. Religious beliefs about marriage should never be enshrined in laws in ways that restrict the freedom of others who do not share those beliefs.”

======================

“4. Redefinition: “You’re Trying to Redefine the Institution” (FAIL)”

“Opponents argue that marriage has always been between a man and a woman and that it should stay that way. They say that efforts to legalize same-sex marriage will fundamentally alter the institution for the worse. History reveals, however, that marriage laws in the U.S.A. and in countries across the globe have been modified repeatedly in response to evolving cultural norms. There was a time when women were the legal property of their husbands. There was a time when a man and a woman of different races couldn’t marry each other. There was even a time when not one country in the world had legalized same-sex marriage! Removing discrimination from the institution of marriage does not redefine “marriage” — it simply makes the institution more accessible and reflects the evolution of society.”

============================

“7. Reverse Discrimination: “Religious People Will Be Discriminated Against” (FAIL)”

“Some opponents of marriage equality describe a future in which religious people become the new “victims” of oppression. They talk of charity-based religious organizations being “forced out of business” for “sticking to their beliefs” about marriage. In this reverse scenario, gay people are apparently “hateful” for wanting to be treated equally in society. How dare we demand equal rights and criticize those who discriminate against us! In no state of the U.S.A. in which gay marriage is legal is a church legally required to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies. Religious groups and churches are still free to pick and choose who they will and won’t marry. Organizations that receive public money, however, and which must adhere to anti-discrimination laws, should rightly be challenged if they engage in discrimination against a protected class of people.”

Notice that this was written one year ago. Has anyone within the Church noticed how many of the liberal loons are trying to force us to believe that gay men and lesbians are some how blessed by God to get married within the church and regular attempts are made to change both Church doctrines but even Jesus teaching to reflect a insidious theory.

Another gay male author also noted that…

“Gay Marriage The Arguments and the Motives”

“A personal essay in hypertext by Scott Bidstrup”

“11. Churches would be forced to marry gay people against their will. This one has absolutely no basis in law whatever, existing or proposed. There are many marriages to which many churches object, such as interracial marriage, interfaith marriage, the marriage of divorcees, etc., and yet no state law of which I am aware requires any church to marry any couple when that church objects to performance of that particular marriage. The right granted by the state to a church to perform marriages is a right, not a requirement, and to pretend that it would be a requirement in the case of gays, but not in the above examples, is disingenuous on the face of it.”

Is this ‘true’? Is Christianity protected by either the US Gov?, US Law?

Um… No…

Next: An article by a gay – jewish writer… Describing the TRUTH about gay marriage…

“Did Christians Get Gay Marriage Right?”

“5-27-2014 3 hours ago, The Daily Beast”

“By Jay Michaelson “

(Article examples…)

…”At the same time, there is some truth to the conservative claim that gay marriage is changing, not just expanding, marriage. According to a 2013 study, about half of gay marriages surveyed (admittedly, the study was conducted in San Francisco) were not strictly monogamous.”

“This fact is well-known in the gay community – indeed, we assume it’s more like three-quarters. But it’s been fascinating to see how my straight friends react to it. Some feel they’ve been duped: they were fighting for marriage equality, not marriage redefinition. Others feel downright envious, as if gays are getting a better deal, one that wouldn’t work for straight couples. Maybe they’re right; women are from Venus, after all. Right?”…

… “Marriage will never set us free,” wrote academics Dean Spade and Craig Wilse last September, just as the current wave was getting going. For them, as for thirty years of radical critics including Yasmin Nair, Michael Warner, Lisa Duggan, John D’Emilio, Katherine Franke, Kenyon Farrow, Gayle Rubin, Sally Kohn, and the ‘Against Equality’ collective, same-sex marriage is a step backward for LGBTQ people and others whose agenda is liberation rather than assimilation.”

“Why? Because marriage is a patriarchal, sexist institution that should be discarded rather than reformed. Because it is, as Spade and Wilse say, a “tool of social control used by governments to regulate sexuality and family formation.” Because it has, in the past, been a tool of racism and colonialism, and in the present, is a means of rationing healthcare. This is, as Warner named it, “the trouble with normal.”

“Perhaps most importantly, normalizing marriage is a narrowing, rather than an expanding, of sexual possibility. Radicals point out that gay liberation in the 1970s was, as the name implies, a liberation movement. It was about being free, questioning authority, rebellion. “2-4-6-8, smash the church and smash the state,” people shouted….”

It’s horrific enough for the progay crowd to insist that their lifestyles deserve all sorts of protections within US Government – law, health care and much more. It is quite a different issue when they try to use sycretist philosophy to insist that Jesus and God would welcome their relationships and assume their lifestyles / choices to be as stable as heterosexuals.

While reading Mr. Achtemeier book I noticed he uses the exact same philosophy that the political / ideological left use to protect islam too. Ironically if those in the left actually lived under a sharia run land there would be no more gays, atheists, socialists and other ‘deviant’ philosophies, No more Christians, Jews or Western culture / society, there would only be islamic thought.

But I digress…

The basic premise within the text of this book is as follows.

* As a Pastor he watched many lesbians and gay men claim to be Christian and struggle with ‘ssa’ ‘Same sex attraction’. Because of the doctrinal codes about morality, the church he was in, asked for gay men and lesbians to be celibate. Many of those who were told this ended up leaving those moral codes in order to have romantic relationships with those individuals that they were attracted to. Others committed suicide. All individuals in his story examples claimed to be Christian.

* Because of the ‘wreckage’ he witnessed he began to doubt the moral teachings in the Church and eventually feel under the spell of the progay movement. In order to please his friends and others in the movement he joined, he created a doctrine that ‘includes’ gay men and lesbians who claim to be Christian in order to be married within the Church.

* Because he believes that the Church is wrong by it’s moral teaching he has created a doctrinal system that would ‘fix’ that problem assuming we would all be liberal / progressive. In order to bring in the souls of gay men and lesbians and the other individual fetishists that are under the ‘lgbt’ id system.

=================

The problems with his philosophy.

1 gay men ,lesbians and others were never CREATED by God by biology. Their lusts and first sexual experiences catapulted them into being a gay man or lesbian. In other words gay men and lesbians are created by people not God.

————————————–

2 gay men and lesbians ARE NOT a separate biological, gender, or ethnic group that need or deserve legal or other forms of protection, INCLUDING joining the Christian church as unrepentant sinners.

———————————

3 gay men and lesbians are Welcome to become Christian but they MUST repent of their sins and stop their fornications. In other words they must submit to God and the doctrines of the Church instead of submitting themselves to homosexual fornications.

——————————-

4 gay men and lesbians are part of the world system. God DOES NOT need to conform to their ways, lifestyles, fornications or poor choices.

——————————–

Christianity was meant to be a separate system and is NOT MEANT to conform to this worlds fornications ,religions and wickedness.

5 gay men and lesbians DONOT need to use Christianity to promote gay marriage or rights. They have the media and other American systems that already do that.

————————–

6 Jesus teachings as recorded in the four Gospels have nothing to promote the gay lifestyle, sodomy, lesbian or other sins. Jesus speaks against lust, sexual fornications, divorce and more.

—————————

7 The teachings of the Disciples echo Jesus teachings about male + female marriage, singleness, and against sexual fornications.

——————————–

8 The combined teachings of Jesus and the Disciples are meant to protect both married male + female couples and single men and women within the Christian church. IF gays cannot adhere to such teaching, why become Christian at all and attempt to change a 2000 year old religious faith for the sake of their lusts and lifestyle choices?

—————————————-

9 Jesus came to this earth to change human beings male and female. With these spiritual changes he wants to bring both genders into Heaven with him. How much more gay men and lesbians. IF God did not make men gay or women lesbians and they are NOT a biological group, ethnic group or race than why can they not be changed and brought to Jesus so they can be saved and be changed into what they were meant to be… either male or female, not gay, not gender confused.

Jesus changes peoples minds and hearts. He can change a mean person nice, a racist into a person who loves all skin colors, a hatemonger into a person who loves others. How much more changing gay men into men and lesbians into women.

——————————————–

10 I recognize that there are Christians who claim to be gay. They struggle with ‘SSA’ (Same sex attraction) and have made the specific choice to follow Jesus and not their lusts. I applaud all fellow Christians who chose to follow Christ in righteousness and celibacy despite their struggles. Jesus has more meaning in their lives and will reward them according to his word. The fight against the liberal left is one of many mountains for both those who are Christians struggling with SSA and those of us who encourage them to follow Jesus and not their lusts. Not because we mean or want to be cruel but we recognize as they do that Jesus is more important than human lust or sexuality. We as Christians also recognize the many stds, diseases and immorality that is involved in the gay lifestyle and have decided to strike back against the suicidal premise that homosexual fornications should be promoted in culture, society, politics and religion.

What is the Bibles response to the question of gay marriage?

“NO…”

How can I say that?

The modern terms of ‘gay’, ‘sexual orientation’, ‘SSA’ or same sex attraction, donot exist in the Christian Bible. They also donot exist in the Torah or Old Testament. Such terms did not exist during the life of either Jesus or the Disciples. So to use modern terms and claim that gays deserve gay marriage within the Church is totally baseless.

To take either document and make absurd claims is not only idiotic but promotes a false ideology that God desires gays to get married according to his recorded words. Such dichotomies are not part of the Christian faith they are only part of the world system.

Jesus wants all gay men, lesbians and others in the lgbt id system to come out of that flawed ideology and repent of their sins. He wants all in the lgbt community to stop sinning and to place their wants and needs under his care. Jesus ALONE can save lgbt souls and HEAL them in their minds and bodies from the years of mental, physical and emotional, sexual abuse they have placed themselves into.

Jesus can turn lgbt persons back into whom they were born to be not what their lusts made them into.

In order to prove the Bible right I did a variety of studies from the teachings of Jesus and the Disciples. On my blog I posted my findings.

I will deal with Mr Achtemeier’s, so called ‘7 anti gay fragment Scriptures’ at a later date…

Genesis 19:1-29

Judges 19:1-30

Leviticus 18:22 / 20:3

Jude 5-7

Romans 1:18-27

1 Corinthians 6:9-17

1 Timothy 1:10

As I have attempted to point out. Gays in the USA or elsewhere DONOT need to convert Christianity to be progay. I know many already have done so and those who keep such philosophy and ideology are apostates.

Harsh words? I’m only getting started.

To mix Christianity with worldly sin is damning and those who follow such ideas are only going to suffer for them.

Jesus didn’t die on the cross to be progay. He died and resurrected to bring EVERYONE to Heaven allowing them to be cleaned of their sins. To forcibly push Christians into progay socialist circles is meaningless, irresponsible and satanic.

To bad the progay crowd are too busy and proud to understand that their not agents of God but agents of satan.

Notes:

I am not the only critic of his books and articles. Here are two links that discuss his beliefs.