The main problem with children not learning goes back to the individual families and what a poor job of raising children a lot of those families are doing. If you want to improve educational scores, then figure out a way to help the families to do a better job of supervising the education of the children in the family.

Wow, we agree. Now I'm nervous...

So if we agree that the deterioration of the family has an enormous impact on student performance, how is giving more money to Sacramento going to help that? Isn't it a fact that the secular educational system, through political correctness, is teaching indoctrination that erodes traditional family values?

__________________"The integrity of my word, faith in the quality of my goods and in my promise, have always meant more to me than mere transitory gain."

No, I don't have those figures handy. But if what you say is correct, it doesn't seem unreasonable for labor to be the biggest expense in a school system. And I don'[t know what the exact percent should be. It is like that in a lot of industries, labor intensive.

I've known many teachers in my time. There are career teachers in my family and among my extended network of friends. None of them are earning an excessive amount of money. Most of those who I know would earn more money working for a large corporation. I don't begrudge them what they are earning or their pensions.

The main problem with children not learning goes back to the individual families and what a poor job of raising children a lot of those families are doing. If you want to improve educational scores, then figure out a way to help the families to do a better job of supervising the education of the children in the family. And what I just said about helping families is a massively complex task. It is not a one or two thing solution. Nothing helps a kid to learn more than a stable home life and competent parents who take their job responsibly.

And California spends less per student than almost any other state. It's right near the bottom now. Mississippi used to be the lowest. California has been getting into that range in spending per child.

The problem “we the people” have is can our nation endure so many years of unprecedented incompetent/greed driven/immoral leadership not only in all branches of the government but the private sector as well. All while the population takes a largely apathetic glance at our inequities and worries about what’s in it for “me”.

It is unfortunate considering the incredible self sacrifice our fellow countrymen made throughout history only to see those sacrifices tossed aside by career politicians and uneducated indolence of the current populace. These so called leaders may very well be guiding us to our demise and at any given time it seems that at least 51% of us will cheer them for it.

Why do families need help raising their families other than the fact that they have gotten so liberal they have forgotten how to paddle their kids, make them do their home work, praise their successes, shun their failures, teach them you get rewarded for success, not rewarded for failure, and take them to church not send them, live the example you talk is the way. The only way to help these families is to instill the lost conservative traits that made this country. You just keep on hopping down the bunny trail michael and enjoy your good old liberal life, but there will be a day of reckoning faster than you think. I hope your are able to adjust when it comes. How did you do raising your kids??In the wind.

Ok hold on there sparky let's get a couple of things straight for you. First you wouldn't know center if you fell into it. You are so far wrapped in lefty ville, that fact that you actually think you are center left scares me terribly.

Now your chosen one only got a mere 50% of the vote.....think about it...yep....keep thinking and do the math.

And now lastly the same electorate that you are crowing about also was happy to have pubs in charge of the peoples house. So clearly this lefty utopia your speak/dream of is not true. Because if what you spew were fact Americans would have turned over the house to lefty ville and given the senate a super majority, but to your dismay neither of those things happened. And once again it is clear you know not of what you speak.
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Let's add to this that some of those mere 50% voted on skin color alone with nary a thought about real issues. Others have their heads straight up their asses and will someday see the light. The rest will forever be in denial and only care about the few issues they care about and will vote for whoever comes along supporting those issues regardless of the big picture.

__________________Why is it that people are often labeled racist only because their comments are taken out of context?

California voted for Obama, has two Democratic Senators, a Democratic Governor and both houses of the legislature the Democrats have more than a 2/3 majority now. Clearly the citizens of California like the approach espoused the Democratic party. We also just voted to raise our property taxes to support education. And we get to ride all year. So, yes, I would think it would be nice if more of the country voted like California.

Mike, you really gotta be fuk'n with us right??? There are some serious leftists around here, but holy sh!t!!! I'm not so sure you'd get much agreement even from them on this one.

__________________Why is it that people are often labeled racist only because their comments are taken out of context?

Mike, you really gotta be fuk'n with us right??? There are some serious leftists around here, but holy sh!t!!! I'm not so sure you'd get much agreement even from them on this one.

That is exactly the point. This forum is not representative of the country. Your and your radical right buddies around here can yell and scream all you want on this forum or other places. It only makes the Republican party look like a bunch of loons, which is fine with me at this point. So please do not stop this diatribe you have been on. It only helps to turn the middle toward the progressive causes espoused by the Democratic party.

California voted for Obama, has two Democratic Senators, a Democratic Governor and both houses of the legislature the Democrats have more than a 2/3 majority now. Clearly the citizens of California like the approach espoused the Democratic party. We also just voted to raise our property taxes to support education. And we get to ride all year. So, yes, I would think it would be nice if more of the country voted like California.

Michael my friend your state is broke..NO MONIES.....
And you think the rest of us should do the same????
As of this year, there is little light manufacturing left in the state. With the new taxes on any business left in the state, the total monies the state receives from business is less each year . Now you want prop 13 to NOT apply to any business property.
Your killing the "golden goose" , whats left of it anyway. What are you going to do when most all business that can leave do leave ???

That is exactly the point. This forum is not representative of the country. Your and your radical right buddies around here can yell and scream all you want on this forum or other places. It only makes the Republican party look like a bunch of loons, which is fine with me at this point. So please do not stop this diatribe you have been on. It only helps to turn the middle toward the progressive causes espoused by the Democratic party.

So are you saying the top 10 list is complete bullsh!t??? Seems so since it presents such radical right thoughts. Oh, did I say thoughts? How about radical right FACTS!!!

Ya know, I could throw out some other radical right facts, but since the forum owners have been moving toward a more politically correct forum, I'll keep it to myself or at least until I'm ready to be banned permanently. In the meantime I can still discuss those facts at our radical right underground meetings at the gun club. You know the ones where we also discuss how to make more powerful assault weapons, keeping women in the bedrooms and kitchens, white power and all that other stuff. Yep, we certainly spend a bunch of time at those meetings! Makes you wonder how we find enough time to actually work for a living to pay all those taxes the left finds so near and dear.

__________________Why is it that people are often labeled racist only because their comments are taken out of context?

No, I don't have those figures handy. But if what you say is correct, it doesn't seem unreasonable for labor to be the biggest expense in a school system. And I don'[t know what the exact percent should be. It is like that in a lot of industries, labor intensive.

I've known many teachers in my time. There are career teachers in my family and among my extended network of friends. None of them are earning an excessive amount of money. Most of those who I know would earn more money working for a large corporation. I don't begrudge them what they are earning or their pensions.

The main problem with children not learning goes back to the individual families and what a poor job of raising children a lot of those families are doing. If you want to improve educational scores, then figure out a way to help the families to do a better job of supervising the education of the children in the family. And what I just said about helping families is a massively complex task. It is not a one or two thing solution. Nothing helps a kid to learn more than a stable home life and competent parents who take their job responsibly.

And California spends less per student than almost any other state. It's right near the bottom now. Mississippi used to be the lowest. California has been getting into that range in spending per child.

Show us the correlation between spending and academic improvement. There is none. There is also no correlation between more teachers or higher pay and academic improvement. Years ago in the 60's and beyond when American schools led the world, 30 to 40 students in a classroom with one teacher and no aide was not unusual. Discipline was dealt out in the classroom and was swift. Parents supported the schools and teachers and much more often than not when you were disciplined at school you got it again at home. Now days if you discipline a student in class you can be sued and or fired. I am a school bus driver and my hands are virtually handcuffed to the wheel of the bus. If a fight breaks out on the bus I am not allowed to do anything. I have to pull the bus over, remover the key, step off the bus, call 911 and wait. If students use inappropriate language on a bus I can only write them up and nothing ever comes of it. If I can't even break up a fight on my bus what can a teacher do in a classroom?

Teacher pay like in every other profession is market driven. It has nothing to do with years of education or the number or level of degrees earned. It is what the market will bear. Anyone not happy about the pay they get as a teacher has to do what everyone else in every other profession has to do. Decide do you want keep doing what you want to do or do something else that pays more.

As to education being "labor intensive" I don't have the figures but I would bet you labor is no where near 80% of the cost of education. I doubt teacher pay is even 5% of the costs of education. Books, computers, printers, servers, lab equipment, office equipment and supplies, the cost of the building itself and of building maintenance, heating, cooling, lighting, student transportation, sports programs, equipment and transportation, band uniforms, equipment and transportation, lunchrooms, lunches and lunch staff and much, much more all cost way more than teacher salaries.

__________________
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

So are you saying the top 10 list is complete bullsh!t??? Seems so since it presents such radical right thoughts. Oh, did I say thoughts? How about radical right FACTS!!!

Ya know, I could throw out some other radical right facts, but since the forum owners have been moving toward a more politically correct forum, I'll keep it to myself or at least until I'm ready to be banned permanently. In the meantime I can still discuss those facts at our radical right underground meetings at the gun club. You know the ones where we also discuss how to make more powerful assault weapons, keeping women in the bedrooms and kitchens, white power and all that other stuff. Yep, we certainly spend a bunch of time at those meetings! Makes you wonder how we find enough time to actually work for a living to pay all those taxes the left finds so near and dear.

So far Michael has avoided discussing any of the 10 facts.

__________________
Laws that forbid the carrying of arms… disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. -Jefferson’s “Commonplace Book,” 1774_1776, quoting from On Crimes and Punishment, by criminologist Cesare Beccaria, 1764

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