Mikey1969:Once again, i doubt anyone tried to put that in any particular order, specifically because everybody would spend all day flaming them for the slightest misjudgment It says nowhere that I could see that it was "in " order,, just the "50 Greatest"...

Then why does it count down?If they did not want to get flamed, they would just have used a non-arbitrary value neutral ordering like premire date, or series duration. With none of those present it is a FARKING countdown.

Copperbelly watersnake:I just want to know where they were going with the plot of Space Above and Beyond. They introduced a couple of interesting plot lines with the season finale and then it was canceled.

Probably a full scale invasion of Earth by the chigs and more AI chicanery...

NeoCortex42:In the description of Ghost in the Shell: SAC: " Suffice to say there's no other series out there so drenched in the aesthetic of both the Matrix movies and the William GibsonSprawl trilogy. "

So Ghost in the Shell borrowed from The Matrix? Sure, why not.

That's fatarded. The Wykowski bros borrowed so heavily from GitS that they supposedly even asked for permission to do the movie.

FooDog:NeoCortex42: In the description of Ghost in the Shell: SAC: " Suffice to say there's no other series out there so drenched in the aesthetic of both the Matrix movies and the William GibsonSprawl trilogy. "

So Ghost in the Shell borrowed from The Matrix? Sure, why not.

That's fatarded. The Wykowski bros borrowed so heavily from GitS that they supposedly even asked for permission to do the movie.

thecpt:kind of agree with Dr Who, but it's longevity is staggering. Twilight Zone was known for getting a point across (moral or philosophical) in nearly every episode and defined the genre. I wouldn't go for those two for trying to make your case. Firefly didn't have a chance when it came to creating content that could prove it's worth against those heavy weights.

I'm a big enough opera fan to sit through Wagner to get to "Mild und Leise", but that doesn't mean that the three hours preceding it are anything but astonishingly mediocre. That more or less sums up my opinion of Doctor Who as well.

As for the Twilight Zone, yes, it was genre-defining, but it also did not have a single coherent narrative or make any statements wider than those of any single episode. By your own standards, it cannot be judged in the manner of a long format serial.

Snotnose:What was that series from the 70s, written by Harlan Ellison, that Mr. Ellison derided as being crap? Something about being on an arc that had several pods, each pod had a civilization, each week the heros went to a different pod. I remember liking the show, but I was maybe 15 at the time.

likefunbutnot:thecpt: kind of agree with Dr Who, but it's longevity is staggering. Twilight Zone was known for getting a point across (moral or philosophical) in nearly every episode and defined the genre. I wouldn't go for those two for trying to make your case. Firefly didn't have a chance when it came to creating content that could prove it's worth against those heavy weights.

I'm a big enough opera fan to sit through Wagner to get to "Mild und Leise", but that doesn't mean that the three hours preceding it are anything but astonishingly mediocre. That more or less sums up my opinion of Doctor Who as well.

What makes Doctor Who work so well, and has given it the longevity it has, is that it hasn't been one show running for decades, it's been a series of different shows all set in the same universe. Every time they change a doctor or change a companion the entire dynamic of the show shifts. Chris Eccleston and Billie Piper had a very different feel than David Tennant and Catherine Tate, or even David Tennant and Billie Piper.

Not only being able to change the main characters, but actually expecting them to change regularly, all while preserving the history and mythology of the series has allowed the show to reap the rewards of an epic saga without ever feeling stale.

likefunbutnot:I'm a big enough opera fan to sit through Wagner to get to "Mild und Leise", but that doesn't mean that the three hours preceding it are anything but astonishingly mediocre. That more or less sums up my opinion of Doctor Who as well.

I'm not at all the biggest fan, but I recognize it's potential to have a great episode or two every season. Nonetheless I can't go in depth about the before era, but Midnight, the Girl in the Fireplace, Blink, the Last Dalek, and the Van Gogh episode were better than any single Firefly episode to me. I'm sure there were gems before that. Then again, those are all my opinion man.

likefunbutnot:As for the Twilight Zone, yes, it was genre-defining, but it also did not have a single coherent narrative or make any statements wider than those of any single episode. By your own standards, it cannot be judged in the manner of a long format serial.

Well that'd be true if that were my lone standard, but it isn't. Defining a genre is pretty damn good and the show still has marathon sessions on tv 50 years later. I doubt Firefly will have that lasting of an impact. You can prove me wrong in 50 years though. I'll probably still be alive then.

thecpt:likefunbutnot: A dozen episodes of Firefly painted a canvas more vivid than a half-dozen seasons of any given Star Trek. How is that not an accomplishment?

I just don't find things that couldn't wrap up on their own accord to be impressive. Don't get me wrong, it could have done that. What happens if it has to go another 36 episodes? We'll never know. It didn't have an ending or a statement to make so I can't justify saying its a top 5.

/some of us just kind of liked it, but respect other's opinions

Whoa! An adult who allows for personal taste and respects the opinions of others? More rare than a Unicorn here on FARK. Sadly, yours is a nearly extinct species, hunted to the brink of oblivion by ravening Instanet Trolls and dreaded Entertainment Snobs.

madgonad:6 Million Dollar Man, Knightrider, Jericho, Max Headroom, and The Prisoner aren't really SciFi. They are same-time dramas that have geewhiz dohickery - like James Bond.

You have a good point. Some of the technology may be beyond our reach even today, but much of it is at least conceivably possible. I wasn't going to nitpick though. I had never really thought of The Prisoner as Sci-Fi. It's more of a spy/intrigue/mind-fark show.

The only technology in the Prisoner which we can't understand are the balloon which guards the village and that crazy see-saw thingie which really doesn't make any sense at all. Everything else is just bugs, intrigue and psychological tactics.

theflatline:I rather liked the Invisible Man that sci-fi had for a few years. Was actually a well written show, and a bit literate.

They're airing that on some channel here and I'm not sure, but I think (but am still not 100% sure) I figured out that the clothes he wore when he became invisible are also invisible. So therefore he's not walking around naked when he's invisible but he can still wear clothes and wrap his head up in bandages when he doesn't want to be invisible.

I haven't seen that many episodes, but it does seem like a problem to me.

it comes on about 5 or 6 AM so I'm usually not too lucid when it comes on which probably adds to my confusion

Happy Hours:They're airing that on some channel here and I'm not sure, but I think (but am still not 100% sure) I figured out that the clothes he wore when he became invisible are also invisible. So therefore he's not walking around naked when he's invisible but he can still wear clothes and wrap his head up in bandages when he doesn't want to be invisible.

I'm not sure if you're watching the same Invisible Man. In the Sci-Fi one with Vincent Ventresca, his clothes turn invisible with him each time. He secretes "quicksilver" that coats his clothes as well as his body.

Happy Hours:madgonad: 6 Million Dollar Man, Knightrider, Jericho, Max Headroom, and The Prisoner aren't really SciFi. They are same-time dramas that have geewhiz dohickery - like James Bond.

You have a good point. Some of the technology may be beyond our reach even today, but much of it is at least conceivably possible. I wasn't going to nitpick though. I had never really thought of The Prisoner as Sci-Fi. It's more of a spy/intrigue/mind-fark show.

The only technology in the Prisoner which we can't understand are the balloon which guards the village and that crazy see-saw thingie which really doesn't make any sense at all. Everything else is just bugs, intrigue and psychological tactics.

Yeah, SciFi is really hard to define. My own take requires a fundamental difference between the world we know and the one in the story. It can't just be a talking car or a bionic arm. Fantasy would be the same, but a regression into our own mythological past.

NeoCortex42:Happy Hours: They're airing that on some channel here and I'm not sure, but I think (but am still not 100% sure) I figured out that the clothes he wore when he became invisible are also invisible. So therefore he's not walking around naked when he's invisible but he can still wear clothes and wrap his head up in bandages when he doesn't want to be invisible.

I'm not sure if you're watching the same Invisible Man. In the Sci-Fi one with Vincent Ventresca, his clothes turn invisible with him each time. He secretes "quicksilver" that coats his clothes as well as his body.

I'm talking about this one: Link which originally aired from 1958-1960. Like I said I haven't seen that many episodes and it comes on very late (or early) but I don't think he secretes anything. He's permanently invisible and depending on the situation either goes completely invisible or wears clothes and bandages on his face so as not to freak others out too much.I never heard of the one you're thinking of. In the one I'm talking about the guy is a scientist who stumbles upon this and it's somewhat of a curse for him.

Happy Hours:NeoCortex42: Happy Hours: They're airing that on some channel here and I'm not sure, but I think (but am still not 100% sure) I figured out that the clothes he wore when he became invisible are also invisible. So therefore he's not walking around naked when he's invisible but he can still wear clothes and wrap his head up in bandages when he doesn't want to be invisible.

I'm not sure if you're watching the same Invisible Man. In the Sci-Fi one with Vincent Ventresca, his clothes turn invisible with him each time. He secretes "quicksilver" that coats his clothes as well as his body.

I'm talking about this one: Link which originally aired from 1958-1960. Like I said I haven't seen that many episodes and it comes on very late (or early) but I don't think he secretes anything. He's permanently invisible and depending on the situation either goes completely invisible or wears clothes and bandages on his face so as not to freak others out too much.I never heard of the one you're thinking of. In the one I'm talking about the guy is a scientist who stumbles upon this and it's somewhat of a curse for him.

OK, so everyone says this show is awesome but I thought it was kinda dumb. The one episode I watched had them sending pilots into ground battles like marines. Why would you go through all the trouble to train people to be pilots then waste them like that? It didn't make any sense to me.

OK, so everyone says this show is awesome but I thought it was kinda dumb. The one episode I watched had them sending pilots into ground battles like marines. Why would you go through all the trouble to train people to be pilots then waste them like that? It didn't make any sense to me.

Because actors are expendable.

But yeah, I see your point. It's like sending SEALS in to do patrols and convoy duty.

Jim from Saint Paul:FooDog: NeoCortex42: In the description of Ghost in the Shell: SAC: " Suffice to say there's no other series out there so drenched in the aesthetic of both the Matrix movies and the William GibsonSprawl trilogy. "

So Ghost in the Shell borrowed from The Matrix? Sure, why not.

That's fatarded. The Wykowski bros borrowed so heavily from GitS that they supposedly even asked for permission to do the movie.

Here's a scene by scene comparison:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3tF7TL0Qh4

BUT CARTOONZ!

CARTOOOOOOOOONZ!

Check out Crossworlds sometime with Rutger Hauer. They borrowed quite a bit from that movie as well.