My husband says I’m always wrong - how can I change?

My husband says I’m always wrong - how can I change?

Archived

–,
Monday,
June,
25,
2012,(8:12am)

Dear Bossy: I have wanted to write with this issue for a while now but I wasn’t sure what to write so I’m sorry but this may be long.
Background: I am married with two kids. I’ve been with my husband for 11 years, married for 6; we started dating when I was not long out of teens. I’ve never lived alone; I did share accommodation at uni for 9 months whilst I was dating my husband.

Current issue: my husband and I always seem to be fighting and it always seems to be over the same things and I always seem to be the one at fault or causing the problem by my behaviour. My husband gets quite angry and I can understand his frustration when we talk out the issue but in the heat of discussion it is hard to be rational and take a step back. I am a meek person and I don’t get angry until really pushed and I lose my train of thought in arguments when confronted with anger and in short become a puppet. Yes I did, no I didn’t, and you’re right, agreement that type of thing. I do this because most of the time he is right and the times when I argue points they end up being irrelevant to the bigger picture and I am then accused of being argumentative and the arguments go on for ages.

I am an intelligent person in a professional career and I am the primary earner (but I’m currently working part time) so I’m not stupid but I don’t have common sense and he has it in spades. This leads to me doing silly stuff that seems stupidly obvious to him. Being a non-dominant person in general and especially in the relationship and being wrong in so many arguments has caused me to have no self-confidence.

My husband says this is not his fault nor is it that he has confidence where I don’t.

I get called a lot of names which used to hurt but are more water off a ducks back now as I’m used to it and when I try to assert that I don’t deserve to be called them he says “if you don’t, I can’t”, meaning if there was nothing to fight about he wouldn’t get frustrated and have reason to call me names. He is not saying we will never fight but not about these big issues.

The main one at the moment is being argumentative. He will get frustrated with something I’ve said or done (or neglected to do) and will raise it (angrily) and I go into a defensive mode and try to explain which he says is arguing which prolongs things. The end result usually being me agreeing with the main point of what he is saying and ‘doing a 180’. I don’t know how to take a step back at the beginning and stop it escalating. This recently happened on his birthday and he ignored me for a week and when he decided to let it go, it was with reluctance because he feels he is always the one letting things go and I don’t fix anything. I always have the best intentions and promise things will change and I mean it when I say it but I don’t know what to do to make the changes. We had a long talk and then 2 days later there was another issue and he is back to being angry with me.

Other arguments relating to discipline and raising our kids, cooking (or my lack of) and cleaning are some of the recurring themes.He says I am not the person he married and he does not like me anymore. I don’t necessarily want to be the person he married but I want to fix things so we are compatible now. I don’t want to separate, I want a cohesive family for all of us and when I think of life alone without full-time access to my kids and my husband to talk to about anything and support me I get really upset. I picture future Christmases and birthdays and I feel guilty for what it could do to our kids and gutted and lonely. He doesn’t have these feelings as he says he is happy when I’m not there. I have not involved my family as he does not have much respect for them because he sees traits in me that come from them and he does not like those traits and I think he would get very angry if my family said anything to him. I think his family knows we are arguing but not the details.

I went to counseling once but I felt that I wasn’t getting the whole story across well enough and my husband would not come with me. He did not see how it could help. He has been telling me issues he has with me for ages and it has come to no good, how would it help to have a stranger’s input?

To summarise, what we would like for me to do is: be less argumentative, make more decisions and take more control rather than being a passenger in the relationship. What I would like is to achieve this with self-confidence and self-respect, not walk on eggshells when there is anger involved and take it to heart as though everything is my fault. I don’t want to feel like I am at fault all the time. I want to have more common sense. I don’t know whether it is too late for us but I am hoping like hell it’s not.

Thanks.

Bossy says: Your husband gets frustrated with things you do or say or neglect to do and when you try to defend yourself or explain he says you’re being “argumentative”. You struggle to get your point across and when you decide it is better to back down he attacks you for doing a “180”?

Recently he ignored you for a week after one of these arguments, and when he decided to speak to you again he saw this as him being the one to “let things go”. Talk about manipulating the truth.

He says he “doesn’t like” you anymore and you are not the person he married. He says he’s happy when you are not there.

He thinks any problems and issues in the relationship are caused by your “faults”. He calls you names and then blames you for that, suggesting if you didn’t act a certain way he wouldn’t have to call you names. Talk about passing the buck.
You know I completely understand the fact you love your husband and want to stay in a relationship. And I acknowledge that a man (or woman) can act very badly or even abusively in a relationship and can still be redeemed. But in order for that to happen at some point you need to recognise that even if you can improve yourself it is still glaringly obvious that your husband also needs to change.

Your husband may not be a bad person, but he is acting like a coward and I expect that’s the real reason he won’t go to counseling - for fear of being shown for what he is.

Cowards blame other people. Cowards berate their partners and undermine their confidence and pretend all the fault of the relationship lies with their partner. Cowards never accept any responsibility. It is always someone else’s fault.

There are always (at least) two people in a marriage and if your husband is genuinely as unhappy in the marriage as he says, then rather than flaying you for your supposed failures, he should be looking for solutions e.g. leaving, getting counselling, or trying to work on how to make things better.

You have been effectively brainwashed into believing you are the sole problem. The best I can suggest is you see a counsellor and this time explain properly what is going on. Take the email you sent to me if you need help to explain what you are going through.

At some point hopefully you will realise that the idea you are always wrong and always to blame in the relationship is a fictional nonsense that has been created by your husband. And while he berates you for being passive or a “passenger” in the relationship he makes sure through constant criticism and complaint that you stay that way.

At some point hopefully you will see that just because he is more confident, more in control, and better in an argument and at manipulation does not make him right.

Get some professional counselling again and discuss these issues. Your husband’s controlling behaviour and verbal abuse is more central to the problems in your relationship than anything else you are trying to change about yourself.

It’s just the saddest thing to read a letter from someone who says they want to change themselves so they don’t make their partner mad. I hope with some professional help you can see that and maybe even convince your husband to accept help in improving the relationship.
At the very least I hope you recognise that you deserve more than a partner who doesn’t like or accept you as you are.

1 - you are the main breadwinner and your cooking and cleaning skills are being berated as well?

2 - you don’t start the fights but they are all your fault

3 - you express a desire to “achieve this with self-confidence and self-respect, not walk on eggshells when there is anger involved” yet “I get called a lot of names” the two things are fundamentally incompatible. You can’t expect to gain self confidence when you live with someone who berates you.

Good luck salvaging the relationship. i’d say at a guess that your husband is threatened by your intelligence and your success and his way of dealing with his own feelings of inadequacy is berating you.

Get yourself to counselling whether he agrees or not and take care, best wishes. I fear you have a hard road to travel to improve the situation but not taking the steps will be worse in the long run.

fml replied to fml
Mon 25 Jun 12 (12:34pm)

Sorry that something to hide comment was supposed to come after the question mark. its unfortunate that it was placed there. I had not had my morning coffee yet.

Still the questions remains, Why didn’t she say at least some of the things they argued about? It’s classic victim mentality, I’m always wrong, he always yells at me. The fact that she didn’t put forward any examples of the arguments make me think she has something to hide.

Secondly, It’s not easy having a depressed partner. That is why I asked the question is the depression the result or the cause of the arguments. She has left out alot of information.

She only talks about how bad he is, and how bad she has it, letters like this make me suspicious.

just a suggestion replied to fml
Mon 25 Jun 12 (02:41pm)

I agree - it is hard living with a passive, depressed person. And the story is always one sided and difficult to judge without understanding the arguments and how they are always her fault. But you know, the husband is not helping by blaming and berating. Even Ben, below, recognises he’s a bully and goes on to justify the behaviour. Not only is there no excuse for bullying it’s fundamentally ineffectual. I am no shrinking violet but I work with someone who just doesn’t listen to what you say in discussions and in the end, why bother trying to say it? This person is so convinced of his or her own rightness, much more so that I am, that trying to get a point across is pretty much useless. And I don’t like to waste my time even when I know I’m right. It’s got nothing to do with laziness.

You just can’t change other people by loudly berating them or often even by trying to reason with them if they won’t listen. You can only change how you deal with them which is the OPs case seems a bit hard because she does not have a strong sense of self. that is what she needs to work on and personally I couldn’t do it if I was living with someone like her husband.

It’s a tough one, change. I guess what I want out of the people I am involved with is first and foremost for them to accept me how I am, I am flawed just like everyone else. In return, I offer them acceptance. Then I want people to to inspire me to change. I have plenty of people that do that too but the inspriation comes from acceptance, not judgement.

iwonder replied to fml
Mon 25 Jun 12 (04:30pm)

@ fml, I’m not sure the OP has considered the possibility of being depressed, she is most likely still working with the assumption that she is responsible for the family’s problems. I suspect there are no ‘big arguments’ that she can disclose. The husband’s behaviour sounds like the ‘nit-picking’ type - goading and critical - and before you know it there is a big argument about all of her faults, stemming from something that seemed so small.

I found the last line telling, in that the OP says ‘ To summarise, what WE would like for me to do is: be less argumentative, make more decisions and take more control rather than being a passenger in the relationship’. OP, your husband seems very invested in maintaining the idea of you being at fault, he needs to be recognising what he has contributed to your marriage difficulties. No way is this a solo operation. All the best to you

Your husband’s a bully. Any time that someone blocks your opinion and tells you it’s wrong - or that you’re “arguing” by simply trying to share feelings - it’s bullying. It is blocking your feelings and he is trying to pound you down to the ground so that he is right.

This is quite clearly emotional abuse (clear to those on the outside, even if not clear to you). Your husband has a problem, a big one, in fact he has several, the main one thinking it’s not his fault.

But I am more worried that he doesn’t seem to want to fix anything. He has already stated he is happy without you around. Can’t you see that nothing you fix is going to change this? He’s still going to take advantage of you and tell you that you’re wrong :(

Anna-Lou replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:33am)

Totally agree, I felt so sad for the OP reading this letter.

Lara replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (11:03am)

She is also suffering from battered womans (persons) syndrome, but without him telling her that he will change.

If she leaves, I bet the light bulb will come up over his head and he’ll beg her to come back despite how bad he tells her she is daily.

Robbity replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (11:20am)

What Mel and Bossy said OP.

I was married to a man EXACTLY like that. He turned me (in the words of a friend) “from a lion into a mouse” - by reducing my self esteem to nothing. It was the most horrible period of my life, and I felt so worthless because I could not stop it and nothing I did was right....but I loved him, so surely I deserved it?

19 years later I’m with the most wonderful, supportive, loving man who values me and shows it. This is what I deserve, not abuse and belittlement, even though it took me a long time to realise that.

As hard as it was to leave my ex, I realised that nothing would change while I stayed with him. Granted it took him beating my young son before I ‘woke up’ to that but the point is I did....

It took me years to regain my self esteem OP, the damage he did was so great. But I accept that I let him, so spent many years repairing my psyche and gaining skills and knowledge to help me understand what a healthy relationship looked like. And yes, I had kids with the man - kids who are now adults that thank me for finding the strength to leave.

You deserve better - and you CAN do this. {hugs}

please speak to a counsellor and start regaining your life....

CorBlimey replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (12:19pm)

@Robbity

Thank you for sharing. *Hugs*

Karma or Cosmic replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (01:24pm)

OP,

Get out of that relationship as fast as you can. Your kids are also being affected by his behaviour and that is so wrong for them to see such abuse and think it’s what they should achieve when they grow up.

I am speaking to you from experience as my ex-husband did exactly the same to me. I was the main breadwinner, I was the one that also did all the work around the house after working a 12 hour day, for most days of the week I might add. It was my fault for him being an obnoxious, arrogant, SOB. I was the cause of everything.

By this stage of the relationship, like you, I believed him and tried so hard to change. But to what??? Nothing I did was right.

It was about now that I had to duck from flying irons coming into the kitchen when I was cooking, pans, broken sliding door windows that my stuff was thrown through, and then came the hitting and the accusations that I was somehow managing to screw around on him as well. (Which I might add he was actually doing himself).

One morning when he went out, I realised I had 2 choices that day. I either killed myself so that he would come home to find me dead on the floor (and I will also add that was really really really appealing, I just wanted peace), or I could bite the bullet and try to leave. I rang mum who helped me through together sentimental pieces of jewellery, she picked me up and I was gone.

It took me years to heal, and I am still healing now 8 years later.

You are better than that. Stop listening to him. He won’t change, like my ex, he will ostracise you from family and friends, so that you feel you have no where to turn. You do!!! Take them and change your own life to one you deserve.

I really can’t stress that strongly enough and I hope you make the right decision, for you and your kids.

Karma or Cosmic replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (01:28pm)

OP,

Get out of that relationship as fast as you can. Your kids are also being affected by his behaviour and that is so wrong for them to see such abuse and think it’s what they should achieve when they grow up.

I am speaking to you from experience as my ex-husband did exactly the same to me. I was the main breadwinner, I was the one that also did all the work around the house after working a 12 hour day, for most days of the week I might add. It was my fault for him being an obnoxious, arrogant, SOB. I was the cause of everything.

By this stage of the relationship, like you, I believed him and tried so hard to change. But to what??? Nothing I did was right.

It was about now that I had to duck from flying irons coming into the kitchen when I was cooking, pans, broken sliding door windows that my stuff was thrown through, and then came the hitting and the accusations that I was somehow managing to screw around on him as well. (Which I might add he was actually doing himself).

One morning when he went out, I realised I had 2 choices that day. I either killed myself so that he would come home to find me dead on the floor (and I will also add that was really really really appealing, I just wanted peace), or I could bite the bullet and try to leave. I rang mum who helped me through together sentimental pieces of jewellery, she picked me up and I was gone.

It took me years to heal, and I am still healing now 8 years later.

You are better than that. Stop listening to him. He won’t change, like my ex, he will ostracise you from family and friends, so that you feel you have no where to turn. You do!!! Take them and change your own life to one you deserve.

I really can’t stress that strongly enough and I hope you make the right decision, for you and your kids.

AlanHB replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (01:40pm)

Exactly right. Abuse can come in many forms, and this is quite clearly emotional abuse and it’s taken a severe toll on your confidence.

Firstly it has made you think that you are the source of the problem - he demands that you do extra work when in fact you are already doing more work than him as the primary income earner. He should be cooking you dinner when you come home, not the other way around.

Secondly it’s gotten to the extent that you probably think you can’t exist without him, and that you have a great family life if not for “your” failings. This is incorrect, the pure truth being that if he wasn’t there, you’d have a great family life. Right now it’s simply an abusive relationship, and you’d be kidding yourself if it wasn’t lost on the children. If you have a boy, he’ll learn that he should talk down to girls. If you have a girl. she’ll learn that the man is always right, and to submit to his wishes. This is not healthy.

You also noted that this is a problem that’s been getting worse over time. This is also an issue, as it may merely be verbal abuse at this point, but can easily develop into more.

So basically I’d consider leaving him. To give it a proper shot first, he’ll have to listen, he’ll have to recognise the problem, and he’ll have to want to change. And if he can’t, the situation can only worsen from here.

Good luck.

AlanHB replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (01:40pm)

Exactly right. Abuse can come in many forms, and this is quite clearly emotional abuse and it’s taken a severe toll on your confidence.

Firstly it has made you think that you are the source of the problem - he demands that you do extra work when in fact you are already doing more work than him as the primary income earner. He should be cooking you dinner when you come home, not the other way around.

Secondly it’s gotten to the extent that you probably think you can’t exist without him, and that you have a great family life if not for “your” failings. This is incorrect, the pure truth being that if he wasn’t there, you’d have a great family life. Right now it’s simply an abusive relationship, and you’d be kidding yourself if it wasn’t lost on the children. If you have a boy, he’ll learn that he should talk down to girls. If you have a girl. she’ll learn that the man is always right, and to submit to his wishes. This is not healthy.

You also noted that this is a problem that’s been getting worse over time. This is also an issue, as it may merely be verbal abuse at this point, but can easily develop into more.

So basically I’d consider leaving him. To give it a proper shot first, he’ll have to listen, he’ll have to recognise the problem, and he’ll have to want to change. And if he can’t, the situation can only worsen from here.

Good luck.

Thylacine replied to MelfromMelbourne
Mon 25 Jun 12 (06:14pm)

Mel is so right. And the sad but true fact is, that the longer you stay & let him treat you like this, the more you are teaching your kids that it is OK for a man to treat his wife like this. And if you want to extend it, then you are teaching your daughter that its quite alright to be treated like shit & in fact you should accept it. Is that what you want? I seriously hope not. Get out. Get out now. Take your kids. It will be hard, I don’t doubt it. And be prepared for him to try & play the kids off & for him to tell them how worthless you are. But be prepared with one simple answer. Ï am worth more then how he treats me and so are you. I love you & I love myself enough to know the best thing for us all & the healthiest thing for us all, was to leave. You (insert child name) may not understand that now, but when you are older, I hope you will understand”. As a mother I think you owe it to your children to do what is right for all of you. I hope you find the strength & self worth to do so. Best of luck.

OP, your post reminded me very much of my stepfather and I just had to say something.

It is not your fault that he is angry with you, people like your husband often choose to be arguementative and manipulative to make themselves feel big from the power they have over you. Simply put, he’s a bully.

Remember you’re a wonderful, intelligent human being and you can choose not to be a victim. And if you make that choice he no longer has that power.

You also say you’re afraid what would happen to your kids if you separated. Let me say that it is far, far better for them to be with one parents who loves and values them than with two in conflict all the time, particularly one who is abusive.

Children learn what they live, what they see of their parents’ marriage shapes how they view relationships. It would hurt them just as much to see a submissive parent just as much to see an abusive one.

Wow Katana your stepdad sounds just like mine and also just like the OP’s husbdand. For years I csoped the bullying on the chin for.the better of the family, until I turn 18 and for everything that came out of his mouth. Neither straggies worked for me and as I have no real control over wether he is in my life or not (as I love my mother dearly) I just took to ignoring him anytime something horrible came out of his mouth. It’s amazing how much the tension in the house goes when he is not there and everyone, my mother included just relaxes and can be themselves.
What I want to say to the OP is that if you think your children don’t notice whats happening around them it’s not true they are, chances are he’ll treat the kids the same way he does you when the are older and I can tell you now it is a horrible way to grow up.
Just be brave.

Chihauhua replied to Katana Geldar
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:28am)

The thing about them separating is very true. My boyfriend’s parents stayed together for his sake well into him being an adult however they fought and fought and fought the entire time. He says to this day he would have much rathered they separated and sought happiness for themselves than to ever stay together for his sake and have him witness such behaviour towards each other.

jaydos25 replied to Katana Geldar
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:42am)

Katana I agree with you whole heartedly i also have a step father who sounds exactly like the OP’s husband and my mum put up with it for 14 years!! before she met him she was slim confident had wonderful friends who were like aunts and uncles to me! after they married the cracks appeared he would belittle her restrict her access to her friends and she started putting on weight and he would go on about her being fat! my two sisters came along and it got worse, she wasn’t a good enough parent, she was fat lazy ect. Fast forward my mum finally left and started repairing her life, her true friends jumped back in to help her she met a man who loved and supported her through the tough times and suprise suprise she is now sporting a hot mumma body! It was hard work for her and still is as because of the way my little sisters saw “dad” treating mum they have a difficult relationship with her but she’s working on it and everyday is a step in the right direction. I keep reminding her while the girls are young and dont understand what they see now when they are older they will understand as I do and they will realise their mum is AMAZING!

Bossy, you’re right on the money with this one.

OP, your husband is being a cowardly ass. No one is perfect but you don’t ever deserve that sort of treatment. No one ever does. You sound very much like a friend I helped out many years ago. Her ex husband sounded very similar to yours and was worse in reality - I would suspect it’s much worse than what you write here here as well.

You need professional help in the form of personal counselling, like Bossy has advised. Do not take hubby with you as he will only fight you on it and make you feel worse. You need to be shown that this is NOT ok. This is what a professional can do for you.

Guess what? Your kids are going to be more affected by you staying with this idiot and seeing how he is treating you - and how you accept being treated by him - than splitting up with him. Marriage isn’t the be all and end all of life and you need not change yourself - I don’t think there is anything you could change to make your husband happy anyway.

Tell me you can see yourself, decades from now, still with him and still copping abuse for just being you. And it is abuse, make no mistake about that. Emotional abuse. Until he’s beaten you down completely and you’re no longer game to have any opinions at all. Isn’t that just the way to want to live your whole life?

You are an intelligent well-paid woman. And I’m sure that you show plenty of sense in your professional career. Get some couselling to be able to get your self-worth back and be able to stand up for yourself. Once you do that, watch your bully of a husband back down. Best of luck.

OP, I just want to add: there is one important thing you can change. Your availability. Some distance (space) might help you get your head straight, and regain some of your power.

At the moment he has you between a rock and a hard place, please seek professional help to get some perspective on things. Or at the very least, make yourself scarce in the spirit of ‘giving him a break’ (but really, to help you clear your head...)

Best wishes to you

You wont want to hear this, but you need to get as far away from this man as humanly possible.
He is a bully, and likes to control you, and blame you for everything.
It honestly doesnt matter if you change the things he doesnt like about you, he will then find a whole new set of things he dislikes.
I dated someone like this once.....he chipped away at my self confidence, to the point where I started doubting myself. I got away thank goodness.
You also need to start thinking of your children. Do you really want to raise them in such a toxic environment? I can only imagine how unhappy they are, the stress in your house must be terrible.
Please have a long hard think about this, seek councelling to start to build your self confidence, maybe confide in a close family member for support.....they could be invaluable to you if you decide to leave.
Good luck, and please realise it is him, not you.

Simple, tell your husband to stop being a petulant child. If he doesn’t like the way you do something there is an easy solution, he can do it himself the way he wants it done.

As Bossy said it takes two to make a marriage work and your husband clearly isn’t putting in the time and effort. Divorce isn’t the end of the world if it comes to that. Yes it sucks major arse but from my experienced, I am a much happier person now than I was towards the end of my marriage.

I’m a bit like this with my wife. Except the fact that I recognise that I’m a bully when I argue with her.

But I never used to be. It built up over time as calm rational discussions failed to yield results. Slightly more intense discussions failed to yield results. Now I just rant for a bit, even filling in her side of the argument for her since I know what she’ll say, wander off to another room to cool my head, and come back and apologise later or the next morning.

The problem for me comes down to the fact that - if she really wanted to change and improve the way she does things, then why doesn’t she? The issues that do get resolved are the ones where I change to either do things a different way or accept that it’s just our life.

So in terms for advice for the OP - I think you need to get your husband to see that the definition of insanity is to keep trying the same thing, without changing any of the variables and expecting a different result.

For yourself, go back to counselling. You say “I went once, but I couldn’t get my point across, so I gave up” - and that perhaps summarises your laziness in being willing to change things. Change takes time. From personal experience, I know it can take years to make a positive impact on changing some negative behaviours you have. So keep trying.

And don’t keep blaming yourself completely, push back a rational framework, ask for time to think or walk away from arguments. If you get worked up in the moment, say that “I’m not going to be rational, give me some time to think”, let the heat out of the situation.

if she really wanted to change and improve the way she does things, then why doesn’t she

It depends on what you think she has to ‘change’.

Do you want her to change something destructive - i.e. gambling away your family’s money - or do you just not like that she likes to eat icecream after dinner while watching her favourite program, while you’d prefer it if she did something else?

flowerchild replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:01am)

Well, congratulations on changing some of your wife’s negative behaviours. It would appear she isn’t doing nearly as well in changing yours.

SarahR replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:22am)

Good points. Its not all black and white and easy to fix. We’re all human. It takes two to tango. Both need to work at it, but as the OP is the one writing in all we can do is advise her. We can talk about how stupid her husband is (from the perspective of the letter), but as he’s not written in - what gets done? Nada. Good on you too for sharing this. Its a nice touch of reality.

lemonaid replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:22am)

Ben, I think some people are able to rationally view their behaviour, and adapt it accordingly. I also think there are others, at the opposite end of the spectrum, who just act, with no level of self insight. They just are who they are and no amount of haranguing will change them. And most of us are somewhere in the middle. Counselling can truly lead to awareness of patterns of behaviour but it takes a lot of time and effort to change. My husband wishes that I were more socially tactful. I realise this is a failing of mine; I do try and stay circumspect. in 20 years together I have changed, become quieter as a result - and am no longer the bolshy extrovert he married. We both miss that person. So everything is a tradeoff. And in the main, in a partnership, it’s all compromise and tradeoffs.

Amelia replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:38am)

Holy moly, an articulate internet commenter with self-awareness. I think your line about ‘change the way you do things or accept it’s part of our life’ kind of sums up relationships though. Good luck to you and your wife.

Shelly replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (10:59am)

Your poor wife.......what a great life she must have, not even being “allowed” to have her say in an argument.
Bet she wished for a Prince Charming to sweep her off her feet, instead she got a bully.......does it make you feel more of a man to treat her like this?

Cat Lady replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (12:02pm)

Gee Ben, my ex wasn’t a bully at all, unless you can call his passive aggression (i.e. not talking, never addressing his hopeless performance in bed etc) a form of bullying -don’t think so, just avoidance. But it must be fun being married to you! No wonder I never want to be married again. Meh!

Karma or Cosmic replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (01:44pm)

Great justification of your own abusive behaviour!

From personal experience, I know it can take years to make a positive impact on changing some negative behaviours you have. So keep trying.

Are you for real? More correctly worded you should have said, it’s taken me a long time to manipulate my wife into doing what I want, not think for herself and only do as I tell her.

Does putting your wife down really make you feel more of a man? That is so very sad for you, it really is.

Hi Ben,
I am similarly a bit of a bully, except I don’t realise at the time that I am being bullying.

I am very large (193cm and nearly that in kg) and very articulate. My wife (whom I adore) is very slim. In physical presence I can be extremely intimidating and the fact that I am a high level executive means that I am used to being forthright in discussions and debates.

My wife has only recently returned to the workforce after around 18 years and she struggles to debate with me.

Around Christmas, she told me that if I didn’t back off and accept there are two sides to the discussion even if the other side can’t articulate the point of view effectively, she would be leaving me as she was sick of being talked down too.

I was devastated, both at the thought that she might leave me, but also at the thought that I was bullying her.

Ben, what I am suggesting to you is that, just because your wife isn’t necessarily able to debate something “rationally”, doesn’t mean that there isn’t rationality involved. Your wife just doesn’t seem to be able to communicate in your language.

It takes a lot of patience and self awareness to back away from your habitual bullying behaviour - mostly because you are frustrated that what seems very clear to you is not necessarily clear to her.

It’s not about winning or losing mate, its about communication with the woman you love in a way that is caring, intelligent and meaningful.

rant for a bit, even filling in her side of the argument for her since I know what she’ll say, wander off to another room to cool my head, and come back and apologise later or the next morning

That doesn’t fit the bill remotely mate. Your wife is not somebody you met on the street who means nothing to you. She is someone you want to stay with, love and live your life with (hopefully).

Ben replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (03:43pm)

Online engagement is always good for a laugh so to provide some responses.

Firstly, I did say “I’m a bit like this” - not I’m always like this. Secondly, unlike the majority of people here, I discuss this issue quite a bit with my wife - when I’m not having a rant.

@Turquoise - it varies. Some things are destructive, some are just so trivial in effort that I wonder why they can’t be done. Why would I complain about stuff that is my personal preference?

@flowerchild - I think you missed the point. I haven’t changed her negative behaviours - instead, I’ve developed some more of my own in response to the way we interact.

@lemonaid - agreed completely. I grew up debating with my father and have a very rational approach towards framing arguments. My wife grew up being berated by her mother so she just stands there and listens to me rant. I hate it that at times I’ve become something that I have so little respect for.

@Shelly - she is allowed her say - she often doesn’t take up the opportunity, at which point I’ll fill in the gaps. It doesn’t make me feel like a man to treat her like this which is why I always apologise afterwards. Does it make it better? Not really. Do you feel better now that you’ve thrown your judgemental two cents in?

@Cat Lady - not sure how projecting your own life issues reflected on my comments but sorry to hear you are so disillusioned that you’ve given up. No idea if it is fun to be married to me, but my wife says I always make her laugh so I guess it isn’t all just tears and sadness for her.

@Karma or Cosmic - how did I justify my behaviour? It’s crap. I know it’s crap. I can see how it developed over time but that doesn’t make it better. And when did I say I manipulated my wife? I haven’t managed to “manipulate” her - I change my behaviours, and at times it has taking a long time to do so.

Sometimes this is because I can see that the problem is my own personal preference as highlighted by Turquoise. Other times because I just think our lives would be better if I get over it. Given that I still do a bunch of crap stuff in my life, I’m obviously not perfect at doing it - but I don’t bother trying to argue that I am.

@SarahR & Amelia - thanks.

Ben replied to Ben
Mon 25 Jun 12 (09:02pm)

@RPbngtgmrh - your post wasn’t up when I wrote my response. I don’t even bother using a handle, I’m sure one day that will come back to bite me in the arse.

And you’re right on most points, that is an area where we have adapted, found a few ways to enable her to get her viewpoint across without being steam-rolled by me so much. Often it isn’t irrational, it is just a different conclusion to what I’d reach given the variables involved.

Funnily enough, good communication is fairly key. I think we have it in our relationship (when issues don’t escalate to me ranting) which is why despite some problems like this, we are still happy together after 10 years. She even had a read and a laugh at some of your responses because she can tell the difference between when I’m being a bully, having a vent or have a reasonable point.

Life is never black and white - which is why it always so ironic to see everyone throwing their two cents in without having both sides of the story. With such a commitment to blame and taking sides, it is no wonder peoples relationships fail.

Hi OP,

I have been in a similar situation before, I understand the man you are describing. The thing is, he is very unhappy - but it is not your fault. He may make it sound like it is your fault, but it definitely is not. He may make it sound like he is always right, but he is not.

In my case, he had a mental health issue with depression which meant that he was unhappy about a lot of things in life. I wasn’t particularly happy either due to the above, which didn’t help.

During arguments (exactly as you have described them - and believe me I’m not stupid either, but the words! the manipulation! he was extremely intelligent.) it would always seem like he was right - then later I would realise there is more than one perspective, and wished I had the right words at the time to stand up for myself.

Something that helped me understand the dynamics of our ‘arguments’ was the Karpmann triangle - I could suddenly spot the unhealthy ‘roles’ we were playing in an argument. Although he was a ‘persecutor’ I was playing a victim or rescuer role myself (neither are healthy) . It was only through stepping away from these cycles that things started to improve.

I don’t know if that theory is outdated, I just know that at the time it helped me see not only his unhealthy roles, but the traps I was falling into as well that were making the problem worse. I also researched his depression a lot, which also helped me understand his condition and his pain. It took the sting out of the arguments/insults as I didn’t take it personally anymore. It wasn’t about me at all, so I didn’t need to react or defend. Also, if you are working part-time and primary income...does that mean he is out of work? This also causes man-pride issues...not an excuse for his behaviour, but this also caused problems with my partner until he was able to work again.

By the way, we were able to work things out (and have a similar back story to you). I’m not saying that we never argue, but we communicate much better, and are both aware of our words and actions, and how they impact on each other. Occasionally, I remove myself from an argument and we talk about it later, calmly, without the drama. This took time, and effort, but we both worked hard. Good luck!

She’s unhappy and it’s his fault, but it’s not her fault that he’s unhappy?

God help us.

OP - your husband is being emotionally abusive. He’s verbally beaten you down to a point where you honestly believe everything you do is wrong and that you are the cause of all your marital problems! I agree with Bossy - you need to go to a counsellor who can help you and empower you to stand up to your husband, but really HE is the one with the problem so unless he accepts responsibility for his behaviour and agrees to get some professional help, I’m not sure how you can salvage your marriage...You can’t change someone who doesn’t want to change; and you can’t change your own behaviour to suit someone else if the goal posts keep moving.

You are allowed to argue your point of view. You are allowed to have an opinion. You deserve to be heard. You deserve to have a voice. You deserve to be listened to. You deserve respect. You deserve dignity.

Your husband is in the wrong when he dismisses you. It doesn’t matter if your argument is or is not silly. He should listen to you, and explain his point of view and listen to what you have to say as well. The both of you should then come to a compromise.

I strongly, STRONGLY suggest you get the book “Boundaries” by Cloud Townsend. Please read it. You are being dismissed and over-run in your relationship. Its made you take responsibility for your husband’s bad behaviour. Re-read your letter - you are saying its your fault he is short-tempered with you and that you are the one who needs to change.

Your husband is clearly very good at arguing his point. I wouldn’t be surprised if he had a law degree. Oddly enough I have the same problem as you - I can’t remember everything that is being discussed when I get into a disagreement with my husband and for a long time I wasn’t heard. Then I read the Boundaries book and learnt a few techniques for asserting myself. My husband never called me names, but he is very good at arguing his point and very persistent sometimes, and I got confused and a bit befuddled. Now, if I find myself getting confused in a disagreement I say to my husband that the discussion is over because I feel lost and not up to asserting my point. I make it very clear that I still disagree, and that I am going to take some time to gather my thoughts. He has wanted to continue to talk the issue through, but I tell him NO and he needs to back off and respect my ‘No’. Its helped a LOT. We’re much better together now and I feel more assertive. It doesn’t mean I win arguments or am some super wife. I’m just better able to talk to my husband.

I don’t think your husband is evil. I think he’s human. But it doesn’t excuse his disrespectful behaviour toward you. He’s in the wrong when he calls you names in order to win the argument. He’s very very wrong to do that. He’s wrong to say that you deserve to be called names. He’s also got a very very strong personality and opinion. Its hard to stand up to that. Good on you for trying to do that.

I also think you should go to counselling for yourself. Because you are definitely right about one thing in your letter - you should change. But not the way you think. You should change how you deal with your husband. Change how you respond to him. To no longer submit to his arguments. But learn how to assert yourself and get what you want. Its not an easy road to take and it will take time - but with counselling and practice you will be able to state your opinion with clarity to your husband and carry your point.

With counselling, and that Boundaries book - I think you’ll be better placed in the future to assert yourself. I’m living proof of it. Cheers!

OP, what your arsehat I mean husband has done has destroyed your self confidence and ability to think rationally when you are arguing, for fear that you will upset him further.

Look at the facts: You are the main breadwinner in the family. Does he feel emasculated by this? Some men can’t cope with this and will attack other things they think they have control over to make you feel as small as them. Fact two: He attacks you on housework, cooking, the way the kids are disciplined. Does he have no input into these things? Does he have no responsibility to assisting with housework, cooking, raising his own children? Fact three: He calls you names...what the? How old is he, ten?

And one more thing: what are your children thinking when they see and hear their father belittling their mother in this way?

Quite frankly OP he sounds like a douchebag and deserves to lose you. And you deserve better than this dick-there are men who appreciate women, your arsehat doesn’t sound like one of them.

Get some counselling to help get your self esteem back. Ignore this idiot when he tries to pick a fight. And leave as soon as possible.

Unfortunately, it doesn’t look good for the future of your marriage. Your husband is too defensive to get help. He may even be depressed but unlikely to go to the doctor.

Can you suggest a trial separation? He sounds like he wants one. It is critical to get some relief from this dysfunctional relationship for both of you. Otherwise it may escalate to something worse than emotional and verbal abuse which is where it is now as Kate so properly pointed out.

No-one wants access visits, separated Christmas and other special days but we do adjust. But not if a man is nearly out of his mind with things he won’t address, then terrible things can happen.

Suggest a trial separation; if he is dependent he won’t want one. At least that gives you something to work on. It also gives you a sense of control. It takes two to save a marriage. You need counselling to start the process of change. Don’t be meek and passive a day longer, for his sake and yours, not to mention your two children. Make an appointment today, it may take weeks to get in.

Are there financial pressures? Maybe he really wants you to go back to full-time work. Stop trying to appease him, stop being “meek”, you are an adult, take some action. Do what you say you will. How can you be a professional woman at work then drop those behaviours when you ,get home?

Treat it like a work problem, cut out the talk, and set down a plan of action for yourself. Get cracking on a solution, even if it leads to divorce. There are much worse things. This is why we have divorce - not all marriages can or should be maintained.

I have seen this before: a person who has successfully made their partner believe the bullshit! If its loud enough, and often enough, soon the arguments are less fiery and one person starts to believe that they wouldnt be fighting so much if they werent so useless. It’s horrible. And often hard to get out of unless there is an external, third party pointing out what they see on both sides.

I had a guy friend go through this. Basically, he had resigned himself to being berated and screamed at over the smallest of things, and if he fought back it last for days, but if he gave in and apologised it only fuelled his girlfriends delusions that everything really was his fault. It got to the point where she was being like this in public, at parties, and in common areas of the house infront of flatmates. Then when it got really bad, the flatmates intervened and told my mate that he was being walked over.

Anyway, nothing could be done about him at the time, as he was blindly in love… but this soon did wear off and he started to realise how mentally abusive she was. He tried to fix it, but she refused to admit any wrong doing. He has since thanked some of his friends for telling it like it is. I guess my point is, try the counselling again, and this time, tell the whole story. Or perhaps you could ask friends or family what they think of your husband, before telling them your problem - maybe their opinion might shock you.

I worked with a guy that was treated like this by his girlfriend, I shared an office with him so I constantly saw the emails she sent him and heard the abusive phone calls he would get and the poor guy trying to calm her down all the time.

I agree with the OP asking her friends and family what they think of her husband. When my ex and I broke up (my story should be down below somewhere) I couldn’t believe all the people who came forward and said they could see it all before I could, so many people didn’t like him because of his behaviour and how I was happier and different when he wasnt around. Even his own family could see how he was as they were always sticking up for me whenever they could, I will always be grateful to them for how they were there for me through it all. My family werent aware of the extent of it and my mother to this day wishes I had of told her how bad it was so she could have supported me. Even still, its so hard to break free.

Wow, your darling hubby has done one hell of a number on you, sweety. Get yourself to a therapist ASAP to sort out what’s going on in your head.

Imagine, how could life possibly be worse than spending it with someone who doesn’t like you, belittles everything you say and do, and makes you feel like an inferior piece of poo?

Bossy is on the money here. It sounds like you’ve been berated for so long that you’re now believing that everything is your fault. I hope you can speak to someone that will make you see that you deserve to be treated with more respect than that. I wish you all the best

Get counselling. If it doesn’t work, LEAVE. I was trapped in a relaitonship that started as me being always wrong, and developed into abuse. Full on abuse. Do not allow it to escalate to such a stage where your self worth is eroded. Ask yourself - “Can I see myself being happy living like this in 40 years time?” if not, make a change. Don’t leave it longer the pattern will only get worse. Best of luck. I know how awful it feels.

A relationship past the honey moon phase. The nitty gritty of a relationship is the real part once the happily ever after becomes bill paying and wiping kids noses.

I hope you two can figure it out and I respect you becuase you are looking for solutions rather than leaving him.

Some questions raised in my mind that are not answered in your post: Are you guys sleeping together still? Is the anger a juvenile attempt at dominance because you earn more? Are the arguments in front of the kids?

My advice in cliche form: the grass is not greener. Better the devil you know. Think of the kids.

No, this isn’t how a normal healthy relationship evolves it is how an abusive relationship evolves. Better nobody, with a chance at a normal healthy relationship with somebody else down the track, than any devil. If she thought of the kids she would remove them from this environment.

It is hard to leave somebody, but sometimes you have to do it. I respect people who have the courage to escape abuse.

My dear young lady! I think it’s wonderful that - unlike so many other Modern Wives today - you are committed to making your marriage work and keeping your husband happy. It’s also commendable that you are willing to take responsibility for your faults.

To the Young Women who are reading this blog, take heed of the above. This is what every wife should aspire to in her marriage: seeking ways to making her husband happy and taking personal responsibility for her own actions.

My suggestions for your improvement are as follows:

- Ask your husband to clearly articulate what standards he would like you set in your work as a mother and housewife. Get him to write them down, if that would help. For example, he may specify “Bedtime for the children at 8pm, a hot dinner on the table every night, and a shirt ironed for me every day.” If you feel his standards are unnecessarily onerous - eg “Iron the bedsheets twice a day”, you can explain to him why this may not work.

- Consider taking a cookery class to improve your cooking. There may also be some Domestic Skills classes you can also take.

- Regarding the common sense issue. Quite simply, stop and think before you do or say anything. Observe what’s going on around you. Adapt yourself accordingly.

- You might also consider giving up your job. It could be that deep down, the fact that your job is higher paying could be making your husband insecure, which manifests itself through his anger. If given a choice between a job and making your husband happy, a sensible woman will always choose her husband.

With all that said, you do not have to put up with your husband calling you names. Next time he tries it, look him in the eye and tell him firmly “That is hurtful and unacceptable. I am your wife. I do not deserve to be spoken to like that.” If he persists with the name-calling, walk away. Remove yourself from the house for a short period of time, if necessary. Keep doing this until the message gets through.

Tell me your joking? Either way, it’s a stupid post from a constantly unfunny responder.
Maybe you could have also told her about make up tips for concealing bruises and that she should give him more BJ’s to make him happy. Idiot.

Cat Lady replied to Ethel Sidebottom
Mon 25 Jun 12 (02:49pm)

Ahh, the 1950s. Mad Men et al. This is why women’s refuges had to be established, because women had no support or even jobs when faced with abusive husbands. Shame on you, Ethel. If this way of life was so wonderful we would have retained it.

Es of Mel replied to Ethel Sidebottom
Mon 25 Jun 12 (03:21pm)

Bergs, you’re trying in vain.

Op, if you can’t go to counselling as a couple it’s still a great idea to go by yourself.

Op, I hear what you say about worrying for your kids if you get a divorce. I grew up in an abusive household. My mum is still married to my drunk nasty dad. I bet sometimes me and my siblings were her excuse for stalying with him though since we’’ve all fled I doubt it’s the real one.

I always wish she’d made a healthier choice for us and for herself.

You’re doing your kids no favors. Exactly the opposite. In reality you are giving them a terrible example and increasing thheir risk of being emotionally abused too.

Comments are submitted for possible publication on the condition that they may be edited. Please provide a name, you may use a screen name – this will be published with your comment, and a working email address – not for publication, but for verification. The suburb/location field is optional.
( Read our publication guidelines ).

A NOTE ABOUT RELEVANT ADVERTISING: We collect information about the content (including ads) you use across this site and use it to make both advertising and content more relevant to you on our network and other sites.