I knew that is why iPhone 5 didint come. It makes total sense for Apple to wait to release a new redesigned iPhone. They want a big "wow" for when real 4G is available and available in more places outside of larger cities to release a redesigned phone. The fact of the matter is that if you get a phone right now with 4G LTE that you will only be able to use 4G in bigger cites but once you go out further away you lose your 4G because it's not fully developed yet. A big percent of users won't be able to use 4G. So this makes sense for apple to hold off on the new redesign and wait for technology to fully catch us. It would be hard to pull off a big "WOW" if they redesigned a new iPhone this year and next year 4G LTE with no new redesign when the next best thing is finally fully developed or close to being fully developed.

Wouldnt it be better if everyone would stop complaining about the 4S release and realize that this is just an incremental upgrade? Like everyone else I was also waiting for an iPhone 5. My I am due to upgrade two devices right now, and HTC EVO, and the iPhone 3GS. I will upgrade the HTC, and wait for the 5 next year. Samsung can display their spec list for their Galaxy S, but still nothing compare to the iPhone.

Wow! It takes an "analyst" to figure that out? How do I get a job like these low life's? I've been saying 4S for the longest time. No way Apple would release a 5 this year next to the Verizon 4 in Feb. You'd think red flags would have popped up when Apple was announcing a product on their own home base. Nothing big.

There's gotta be a complete redesign of the product for it to get to the next number. I don't need a fat computer geek analyst to figure that out. Clearly, it's a given.

You're missing the major argument in that it shouldn't take 16 months for an incremental upgrade which is far less than the 3GS from the 3G. It's you who's not understanding.

Was there even a need to upgrade the hardware at all? After 16 months they are still selling 20 million units per quarter. Apple were/are under no pressure to release new hardware its only the geeks out there that want new shiny toys the VAST majority care less. When Samsung start selling 20 million of a single handset in a quarter and making 30%+ profit then maybe Apple will feel pressured.

It's nice to know you are capable of posting consistently bad information. Perhaps now your posts can be of use as part of an index of contra-indicators of Apple's success.
"ConradJoe doesn't like it, buy more AAPL stock!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConradJoe

Yesterday, I posted the opinion that Steve got out while the getting was good.

This release reverses many trends at Apple. It might signal changes that the old-time Apple fans will not like. It clearly shows that Apple thinks the profit sweet spot is not at the cutting edge of phone tech, but rather, in the mid-market. They have already made the change with computers, and now with phones.

How do you make a phone twice as likely to break when it's dropped? Oh ya, let's put glass on BOTH sides of the device. Still the dumbest design decision there is. Helps sell phone cases, but having to have a case for a phone just plain sucks. What's the point of marketing your phone as the thinnest one if you have to put a case on it to protect it from shattering? Didn't buy the 4 because of that design and won't get the 4s either. If Apple ever changes the nearly all glass design, I may upgrade then. Next Apple's going to come out with the all (Gorilla) glass car! Crash? No problem, it's "Gorilla" glass!

How do you make a phone twice as likely to break when it's dropped? Oh ya, let's put glass on BOTH sides of the device. Still the dumbest design decision there is. Helps sell phone cases, but having to have a case for a phone just plain sucks. What's the point of marketing your phone as the thinnest one if you have to put a case on it to protect it from shattering? Didn't buy the 4 because of that design and won't get the 4s either. If Apple ever changes the nearly all glass design, I may upgrade then. Next Apple's going to come out with the all (Gorilla) glass car! Crash? No problem, it's "Gorilla" glass!

Dumb post - A plastic phone will get scratched and damaged when you drop it and treat it rough. My 3G was a mess when I upgraded. I don't wear a coat on my ip4 for the reasons you state (makes the phone look fat) but I am paying the price as usual. I just got a new scratch on the from glass yesterday (keys?). I am all for not upgrading unless you need to, but to hold out against the ip4 because of the glass seems silly. Its an awesome phone and it won't shatter as easily as you think.

Sixteen months for that? Apple could have released the 4S without Siri or iOS5 back in June and people would have loved it. I've been eligible for an upgrade since the end of June and I was ready to buy. Instead, I will limp along and wait for something actually worth buying.

I don't think so, Apple is just following its naming scheme. Wouldn't apple call the next phone "iPhone 4G" if it were about the network. Didn't they do that for the 2nd generation phone, when it was capable of 3G speeds?

This is what Apple will learn with regret. The China market had exploded because of the newly designed iPhone, iPad and Macbook Air. We don't want our notebook to be upgraded yearly, but the phone is different. If Apple plan to continue with this iPhone_s every two year then they will kiss goodbye the spectacular China market growth.

This is an interesting perspective.. Forgive the armchair analysis (this may be either too obvious or too inane so I apologize beforehand), but it seems to this amateur observer that this viewpoint presupposes two distinct groups of consumers exist (among others of course) who buy Apple products.

The first group (perhaps the smaller) is comprised of individuals who have taken stock of the experience Apple offers (i.e., the OS, service, technology, ease of use, etc.) and characteristically count on Apple to deliver each product they make with a similar level of chutzpah. Characteristically, these individuals also own many other Apple products because they buy into the Apple philosophy which focuses on end-user benefits. Among these are many of the "early-adopter" class of Apple customer who suffered through the earlier difficult years of Apple before their meteoric rise (re: Michael Dell's now infamous comment about closing the company and returning what value remained to the stockholders). What is typical of this group is an awareness while using their Apple product of the relative difference between their user experience with the Apple-item, as opposed to what they might be experiencing had they bought a non-Apple product.

The second group (perhaps the larger) are those who have become attracted to Apple because of the swing in the opinion-makers attitude about what is "cool" and therefore desireable as a "must-have." Because the opinion-makers opine is typically well-informed, it is not surprising that many of their followers have received a great deal of satisfaction with purchases like the iPhone or MacBook Air. Implicit in this mix, however, is the realization that many who belong to this category may well be persuaded by counter-opinion-makers within this group who start chanting that another device is even more "cool" (i.e., faster, stronger, prettier, more OLED-ish, can drain batteries faster, etc.) and therefore more desireable than the Apple counterpart. It could be argued that someone changing to a competitor's product and enjoying it could possibly be one who did not buy the Apple product for its user experience in the first place and never appreciated the relative difference in the first place.

Of course, to suggest such a thing is to be an Apple fanbois spouting yet another blasphemy in the counter-worlds of Droid or PC/Microsoft, but - as Shaw once quipped - "All great truths begin as blasphemies." The fact is, when one makes an argument similar to the one bracketed above, one seems to suggest the possibility that the vast majority of Chinese can be put into the second group - and that their buying decisions and motivations would not be predicated on the same careful factors characteristic of the first group.

If this is true, the so-called "awakening giant" may be of an entirely different nature than what was first contemplated. All may not be lost for either Apple or America if many of the second category Apple bandwagon-ers leave Apple to start enjoying the compromises with their new Droid purchases that Tim Cook said Apple would not make with the iPhone. To say the least, this band of "expatriat-merry-makers" may find themselves on a band wagon already crowded with not only the Chinese, but perrenials from the land of Microsoft and Dell and feel they have never been happier.

As the proverb somewhat goes "as a dog returneth to its own vomit, and a pig to its own sty..." Oh well, one man's sty is another man's heaven.

A sentiment that those in the first group - if I may presume to guess their sentiment - will never understand.

1) I think Siri is being way undervalued by some commentators/posters. It's a game-changing technology in the way Bluetooth and basic voice commands were a few years ago. How many languages will it support? Not sure I've seen that.

2) A significant number of Verizonwireless (and Sprint, too I suppose) customers will be switching to an iPhone as the 4S is the first one that will allow them to do so. There really are people who require a "global" phone and they've been stuck with a BlackBerry or something else so far. It's quite possible this extends to existing CDMA network phone users in Korea and Japan, too.

I think it absolutely makes sense to use the 4S name for this update. The form factor is the same (and I like it), which means everything that works with the 4 should work for the 4S. Technology-wise, this update is the electronic equivalent of dropping a supercharged V8 into a car that only had a V6 before. There's no new communications abilities, though there is only one model where there used to be two.

Siri is a big deal, but that's software, not hardware.

From an engineering standpoint, Apple has claimed that it is a complete redesign. In other words, the only thing that hasn't changed is the parts you can see. From that standpoint, it would make sense to have called it the iPhone 5. But look at the complaints about the 4S. "They didn't change the form!" Would the complainers have been any happier if Apple had released the same phone as the "iPhone 5"? I doubt it. In fact, I think they would have complained even more.

Overall, IMHO, this is an excellent update, with one major flaw: Memory.

Apple shipped the first iPhones in June 2007. Those models had 4GB, 8GB and 16 GB of storage. If Moore's Law can be applied to flash memory, then the iPhone 4S is coming in just 2 months shy of the memory theoretically doubling 3 times. In other words, 18 months after the first iPhone shipped, the cost of memory should have allowed Apple to release 8GB, 16GB and 32 GB models for the same prices. 18 months later, 16GB, 32GB and 64 GB models. And finally, 32GB, 64GB and 128GB models just two months from now.

Even if we were generous and let the 18 month cycle expand to 2 years to match Apple's annual upgrade cycle, that means the iPhone 4 should have shipped in 16GB, 32GB, and 64GB models, with the most expensive one coming in at $299. Instead, Apple only now has added a 64GB model, but at a jacked up price. That's a double-whammy that's just plain annoying.

Even worse, two of the new features they're touting are the 8 Megapixel camera and 1080 recording. Both of those hit storage far harder than previous models. (1080 more than doubles the memory necessary for 720.) If you were managing to get by with 32GB before, these features would make the 64GB model necessary, but at a premium when, IMHO, it should have become the new $299 model. If you weren't able to get by with 32GB before and you want to make full use of the new features, you're SOL.

I know many Apple fans like to pretend that isn't a real problem. It is. Get over it. This is one of the reasons I bought a case for my iPhone 4. When I can decrease my signal by 2 bars or more by placing one fingertip on a spot on the side of the phone, there is a design flaw. Doesn't mean the phone is crap. Best phone I ever owned. Just stop pretending this problem doesn't exist.

Wildly improved processor? Euh, the A5 has been around since earlier this year, so sorry no. More like 6 month late processor.
Remarkable camera? I give you that, but enough for pride?
And awesome voice recognition, let's wait and see. I predict a damnyouautocorrect version of Siri.

I didn't realize hands-on experience was required to be wowed by a product.

Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I was absolutely floored when Apple announced the original iPhone, and extremely excited with both the 3G and 3GS. When the iPhone 4 came out, I was amazed at everything they were able to put into it. But this time, for the first time, I'm underwhelmed in the iPhone. That's not to say it's not a big upgrade, or an amazing device with great battery life and rock-solid stability, but after waiting the extra few months from the norm, I would have expected something a little better than this. Oh well.

...There was no misstep on Apple's part. This is the Apple's methodical and evolutionary approach to not rush things to market before they're ready.

I guess in your world, a new model that is 7-9 times faster than the previous phone is just not good enough for tech-heads like you.

Precisely. Thank you. It is important to realize that the 'bigger, better, faster, now" mentality is akin to a disease. Those of us that look at the meta level of technological development and intervention in our lives recognize that the pace of tech far outpaces our capacity to grok its impacts. To some, releasing a phone that looks the same is important, as they never delve into the feature set. Others geek out on every detail. In the bigger picture though, who is currently truly constrained by their device in the context of having capacities that didn't exist sometimes just months ago.

It is much more than a prescription for unhappiness to ratchet your expectations to be constantly at or just above what is technically possible. For us to stop having the tool of technology as our master, we must develop a healthier outlook at the incredible breadth of opportunities each new device offers us, and perhaps, for a moment, be grateful.

I'm surprised that the comments are not really talking about the predicted release date of iPhone 5, in early Q3.

The following would have to happen for this predicted date:

1. Wireless carriers would have to make customers with less than 12 months into a contract (8 or 9 months) eligible. (considering they purchased 4S model). This may or may not be likely, but considering the carrier's normal (early) eligibility schedule is 12-18 months, they would be setting a precedent that they may not want to do.

2. Apple would have to begin immediately with planning & testing a new design for iPhone 5. If the stories are correct concerning iPhone 4 and antenna issue, Apple was testing it the previous September (2009) for then a June 2010 release.

3. Apple would have to expect a larger than normal amount of buyer's remorse and/or frustration with those customer's who went ahead and purchased 4S in the remaining months of 2011 or early 2012 (tied into false rumors of iPad 3 this fall, when iPad 2 was released only in March).

I believe Apple has "adjusted" the iPhone schedule to now be in the fall and consolidated with the iPod line. If so, then any customer looking for the 4G technology in an iPhone will have to wait (like it or not) until then. My two cents only!

Wildly improved processor? Euh, the A5 has been around since earlier this year, so sorry no. More like 6 month late processor.

Really? Is it not a constant source of amusement to see droid phones that crash constantly, have horrible battery life, quirky behaviors. Just had two friends with latest-model phones tell me that their Samsung - if listening to music when receiving a call, could not go back to listening to music unless restarted. The HTC would go white screen during texting and periodically reboot without warning. My girlfriend's droid is near paperweight status less than a year old. With hundreds of apps, my 3Gs just sails along and beats their phones at virtually every task and is still rock solid at a ripe old age of 18 months or so.

Do you truly want a shorter window of testing and feature integration than 6 months? Do you want to sacrifice usability for such cutting edge componentry? Do you have the same expectations for your automobile choices? What frustration!

It is hard to argue that there are better engineers anywhere in the tech industry, or better management of the supply chain. Is it Apple's fault that demand is outpacing component development? Should they be faulted for releasing a phone (Iphone 4) that was so far ahead of the competition that it was still gaining market share 16 months later against supposedly superior phones? And is it their fault that creating another iteration of their phone that easily matches or exceeds anything else available, in some cases by broad margins, doesn't please everyone?

They seem to be arguing for change for the sake of change. How shallow can you get? The design of the iPhone and it's OS is world class, this is why Samsung created a clone along with Google's Android. The build quality of the iPhone is superb and it now has a dual core chip and a very, very good camera, there in your pocket when you need it. Perhaps if Apple made micro changes to the shape of the edges or the buttons people would have been extactic? I like the size of my iPhone in my pocket, it's big enough to be useful (with its gorgeous display) and small enough to comfortably 'disappear' in terms of comfort.

The development of the latest network technologies is in a state of flux, when hasn't it been? The 4s targets large segments of the technologies around the world currently in place. Apple will most likely have an LTE capable solution if or when LTE is widely rolled out. Why wouldn't they? In the meantime the 4s and Apple integrated sysetm - as a whole - will be creating a wake in which the rest of the industry will follow.

I am with you on the blind iHaters. There are people who don't get the big picture at all. They use line item lists of specs and features to fight with, but don't actually look at the reality in practical use. That being said, Apple has created a fantastic product with not enough screen to operate for many people that want to use their phones to replace certain functions they have been using their computers for. Those people need a bigger screen. At this point I think it was a big mistake to not offer that. Cosmetic design is superficial, but screen size is not.

I guess Chinese hipsters are more like US hipsters than I realized....... ...ahhh the intellectual depth! Y'all are so suave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ontheinside

That depends on 4G being ratified as a specific technology by that time. I don't believe it has yet. If they go down the LTE route it should be the iPhone LTE.

It's "LTE Advanced" that is a 4G candidate technology. LTE (non-Advanced) isn't a candidate for being ratified as 4G.

Incorrect. After no 3G phones ever actually matched the ITU's 3G specs, they've eased up on 4G "certification" - to which nothing in the wild even comes close, and are officially allowing - as of 12/10 - the initial versions LTE and Wi-Max and even HSPA+ to call themselves "4G technologies" with their blessing.

So an upgrade of hype or a downgrading of actual expected compliance with standards, take your pick.......

Quote:

4G standards, setting peak speed requirements for 4G service at 100 Mbit/s for high mobility communication (such as from trains and cars) and 1 Gbit/s for low mobility communication (such as pedestrians and stationary users).[1]

A 4G system is expected to provide a comprehensive and secure all-IP based mobile broadband solution to laptop computer wireless modems, smartphones, and other mobile devices. Facilities such as ultra-broadband Internet access, IP telephony, gaming services, and streamed multimedia may be provided to users.

4G technologies such as mobile WiMAX and first-release Long term evolution (LTE) have been on the market since 2006[2] and 2009[3][4][5] respectively. The ITU announced in December 2010 that WiMax, LTE, and HSPA+ are 4G technologies.[6]

The HSPA+ being included is partly why Apple specifically didn't claim their new 14.4 variants (HSDPA/HSUPA (850, 900, 1900, 2100 MHz) as '4G or not 4G' yesterday - not to mention AT&T's barely deployed HSPA+ [more on this below] and is now focusing on getting LTE out the door.

Meaning the newly announced speed will be available only to a handful of US 4S buyers, if that, and which I found the most deceptive, non-qualified announcement Apple's made at a keynote in years. There's a comfortable reality distortion field, like the one being created around Siri, which may or may not presage the HAL-9000 age or just be a gimmick barely on the way there, and then there's truth distortion, setting up an expectation in the average user that they'll be getting these speeds, which 95-100% of US residents won't be getting! Bad Apple! Bad!
I also haven't been able to verify the compatibility of AT&T's HSPA+ with Apple's announced HSDPA/HSUPA, (which - HSPA+ - another Wiki article calls "3.5 G")

PS: Did anyone else notice how the the addition of Sprint not only wasn't played up at the keynote, but was actually tossed off as an "oh yeah, Sprint too, if anyone cares" kind of thing. And that was it! Didn't Apple even trot out a Verizon Exec when they came on board???

PS: Did anyone else notice how the the addition of Sprint not only wasn't played up at the keynote, but was actually tossed off as an "oh yeah, Sprint too, if anyone cares" kind of thing. And that was it! Didn't Apple even trot out a Verizon Exec when they came on board???

Sorry to go off-topic a bit here but the whole Sprint story might reveal why there's no T-Mobile iPhone. Seems the way it happened at Sprint was Apple told them that to create a special iPhone (it's rare for a phone to be identical one carrier to the next) the "minimum order quantity is XX million units"... perhaps 30 million was the actual number. Apple very well could have told T-Mobile the same thing, perhaps long ago. If the quantity was too high for them to commit to -- no iPhone.

Makes sense for Apple to hold off until 2012 to announce the iPhone 5. First off all, unless they can deliver in volume why announce now? It would only kills sales of existing iPhone 4 sales. Secondly, the iPhone will be 5 years old in 2012 hence the iPhone '5' Finally, why wouldn't Apple want to refine an already popular handset? Seems that the iPhone 4 is the #1 selling smartphone, in the world, so why not simply improve it?

1) I think Siri is being way undervalued by some commentators/posters. It's a game-changing technology in the way Bluetooth and basic voice commands were a few years ago. How many languages will it support? Not sure I've seen that.

2) A significant number of Verizonwireless (and Sprint, too I suppose) customers will be switching to an iPhone as the 4S is the first one that will allow them to do so. There really are people who require a "global" phone and they've been stuck with a BlackBerry or something else so far. It's quite possible this extends to existing CDMA network phone users in Korea and Japan, too.

1, Siri is confusing to people because they think it's simply "Speech to Text" fed into a search engine. It's hard to conceptually explain to them the tech behind Siri. They glaze over when they hear Latent Semantic Mapping but Siri's ability to parse language and make sense of it should be unparalleled compared to today's basic speech to search. Already Siri supports English, German and French. My German friend is going to LOVE being able to speak in her native tongue.

2. Love World Phones. Verizon/Sprint customers that travel abroad are cheering right now if you listen closely ;-)

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.- SolipsismX

So the 6th generation iPhone is going to be called the iPhone "5"? Really? That right there makes the rest of the article null and void.

Technically, the article just reports on what the analysts said, but therein lies the issue: this site reports rumors and news, but you have to pay attention to what is rumor and what is fact. But I've noticed a lot of readers believe everything posted on AI as if it had equal veracity. This is troubling, because that's how we arrived at the present situation. Analysts were talking out of their asses, AI was posting it, but they also post factual news. Back in the day, news organizations (legitimate journalists, not the blogger/rumormongers we have today) who only go to press with stories that had facts or testimony to back them up. That kind of pure news-only reporting doesn't happen anymore with the advent of the Internet and the 24-hour cable news networks. Now it's about ratings and page views, facts be damned.