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I've seen loose bridge pins on a few of these pianos. You can check by holding a screwdriver blade on the speaking side pin. You'll need someone to assist. If the beating stops, then I'd suspect they're loose.

I've seen loose bridge pins on a few of these pianos. You can check by holding a screwdriver blade on the speaking side pin. You'll need someone to assist. If the beating stops, then I'd suspect they're loose.

Tim

not suspicion at that point CA help there, apparently.

false beats can be the result of a long backscale somewhere also, but if only on 2 strings of an unison, I would change them.

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I've never witnessed loose bridge pins causing causing false beats. The theory seems sound, but I've never experienced it. If the screwdriver, or properly positioned vice grips, don't solve the problem, I would deduce the problem is a twist in the wire (ie the way in which you installed it). I would absolutely replace the wire.

I've never witnessed loose bridge pins causing causing false beats. The theory seems sound, but I've never experienced it. If the screwdriver, or properly positioned vice grips, don't solve the problem, I would deduce the problem is a twist in the wire (ie the way in which you installed it). I would absolutely replace the wire.

That's just it: I don't often come across loose bridge pins, and when I do, it also doesn't necessarily result in a false beat.

IF the bridge pin is the problem, then carefully setup some vice grips on the pins, and see if the problem goes away completely. ONLY then, would I assume it has something to do with the bridge pin. Otherwise, the problem is elsewhere (i.e., the string).

Resolving a loose bridge pin issue is a compromise, no matter what you do. I tend to want to repair the size of the hole by plugging it and re-drilling it...but this is complicated and time-consuming to do it well. The other thing to do is put a bigger bridge pin in. I tend to shy away from CA glues and the like. Maybe it is ok for a cheap piano that is already dead and gone, but otherwise, I don't know what the long term effects are--so I remain conservative on the issue.

Well, please take the time to observe, think, and prove yourself otherwise (i.e., instead of simply holding on to a belief that you've pickup somewhere).

I am proving you otherwise right now, but because you haven't taken the time to make your own observations, you don't really get what is going on--it's not up to other people to prove anything to you; you have to do the observations yourself.

If you stabilise the so called false-beats-causing bridge pins with a pair of vice grips, a screwdriver, or what ever your brain can come up with, and there is still is false beat, what does that tell you?!? How could the bridge pin, when it is being temporarily stabilised, still cause a false beat problem? If you can come up with a possibility, then eliminate that too, until your false beat goes away. If it never does, the problem might just be with your way of thinking.

Since you say you will take the time to investigate sometime in the future, you might as well take a few notes that are perfectly straight (i.e., with no false beats) and temporarily replace those bridge pins with smaller ones (i.e., ones that are going to be loose). If you really want to know how to fix false beats, you need to also know how to cause them.

I've never witnessed loose bridge pins causing causing false beats. The theory seems sound, but I've never experienced it. If the screwdriver, or properly positioned vice grips, don't solve the problem, I would deduce the problem is a twist in the wire (ie the way in which you installed it). I would absolutely replace the wire.

I have just re read your earlier post A443.

My apologies, I have misread and misinterpreted.

Please accept my sincere apologies for the run around.

On re reading your earlier post, I think that I will look and see if the wire is twisted, after trying the screw driver trick on the bridge pins.

Before nailing this on a false beat, you could be dealing with a wayward longitudinal mode?

Mute 2 strings leaving one of the beating strings. Note the speed of the self-beating. Change the pitch of the string and note the speed of the beats. If the beat speed does not change at different frequencies, the mess is caused by a longitinal mode, which can only be changed by changing the speaking length.

Before nailing this on a false beat, you could be dealing with a wayward longitudinal mode?

Mute 2 strings leaving one of the beating strings. Note the speed of the self-beating. Change the pitch of the string and note the speed of the beats. If the beat speed does not change at different frequencies, the mess is caused by a longitinal mode, which can only be changed by changing the speaking length.

Jim Ialeggio

Are you sure about that? I thought longitudinal modes were an order of magnitude higher than the first partial. Mark said the false beats were about 2 bps. D#3 ( appox. 155.5 Hz ) would have a longitudinal mode of over 1500 Hz and would have to beat with a very strong 10th partial to hear the beats.

Don't know...maybe I'm showing my ignorance on this subject...but to tell you the truth, I can't say I ever have dealt with false beats down there. Noisy strings, yes, but I don't think they were self-beating.

I would imagine these are plain wire? With most false beating after restringing one should check both termination points. If this goes through an agraffe did you ream it out slightly? Old string impressions can change or interfere with the front termination and speaking length.

False beats are almost unheard of on plain wire strings that low. My only thought is really poor hammer pining and mating. That can make things go bad. Like the hammer hitting one string obliquely first, then scuffing into another or something.

Not everything is solvable...

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Jeff DeutschlePart-Time TunerWho taught the first chicken how to peck?

There are two common reasons for false beats. Make sure the steel is clean. You can clean the steel with pads like Scotch or use clean benzin. Then tab down the strings on the bridge or stretch the strings with a piece of wood near the bridge to get them down.

There are two common reasons for false beats. Make sure the steel is clean. You can clean the steel with pads like Scotch or use clean benzin. Then tab down the strings on the bridge or stretch the strings with a piece of wood near the bridge to get them down.

Pianolive, you may wish to read the OP and following comments a bit more carefully - we're not talking about old strings with rust and doing little Reblitz tricks. This is about new wire and false beats in an uncommon place. One who is putting on new wire should have already seated at the hitch pin and bridge, and the termination points (as I mentioned) inspected and dealt with accordingly before stringing. Brass is usually preferable to wood or other metals for manipulating the wire or seating it.

There are two common reasons for false beats. Make sure the steel is clean. You can clean the steel with pads like Scotch or use clean benzin. Then tab down the strings on the bridge or stretch the strings with a piece of wood near the bridge to get them down.

Pianolive, you may wish to read the OP and following comments a bit more carefully - we're not talking about old strings with rust and doing little Reblitz tricks. This is about new wire and false beats in an uncommon place. One who is putting on new wire should have already seated at the hitch pin and bridge, and the termination points (as I mentioned) inspected and dealt with accordingly before stringing. Brass is usually preferable to wood or other metals for manipulating the wire or seating it.

New strings can have such beats if not well manipulated once installed - (the terminations, for example are tobe done after stringing - not only before)

It will be very interesting to see if those 2 strings (the same wire I suppose) are twisted, or if they have been massaged too strong (high heat created by rubbing too strong can probably create a loss of tempering, while I was told to rub relatively strong so the strings are warm at touch when done)

Edited by Olek (05/08/1407:49 AM)

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It is critical that you call your Senators and Representatives and ask them to cosponsor S. 2587 and H.R. 5052. Getting your legislators to cosponsor these bills

Smhaley,What I described in my post is just what I learned at Steinway regarding concert service.Those pianos are not older than three to five years as they are on leasing contracts.Btw, who is Reblitz?

Smhaley,What I described in my post is just what I learned at Steinway regarding concert service.Those pianos are not older than three to five years as they are on leasing contracts.Btw, who is Reblitz?

Pianolive are these NY or Hamburg instruments you generally refer to that need this sort of work? I'm surprised that such new instruments would be coming off the floor needing such attention as scrubbing the strings and reseating at the bridge. I mean we all hear tales of woe of the varying degrees of prep leaving the NY factory, but seriously, having to scrub essentially new wire?