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Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

-Capacity: At 1400 mAh, the CR123 is capable of powering the HDS at moderate output levels for an extended period of time. I carry spares as part of my edc.

-No protection circuit: IMR cells share this trait but 16340's are only rated for 550 mAh and 18650's are hostile to form factor.

-Bulk price: CR123's are reasonably priced when purchased in bulk. If I'm desperate, I can buy a pair of SF123's from my local hardware store for ~$5. I'll never be desperate, though, because I have about 90 batteries right now, with the oldest stock continuously rotated into service.

I do have some conscience about the effect of spent batteries on the environment. Maybe someone can persuade me to go green.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I like to go out with a fresh rechargeable each and every time. It is also a non-guilt power solution.

I use Fenix 16340 protected batteries from BatteryJunction for $5.95 each, see link below. I also use the Nitecore D4 charger $39, see link below. I charge four batteries at one time because otherwise the charger puts too much amperage into each battery and it will shorten their life. With 700mAh batteries you only want to charge it at a maximum of 350mAh. Primary lithium batteries, non-rechargeables, last a long time so you could always go that route. Primary Duracell batteries work best. I use my lights about 2-3x/day so I went to rechargeables.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I run rechargeable in everything I own. For HDS that's either fenix protected or efest imr cells. I carry a spare in a county comm capsule so whenever I get the low battery warning I can swap and then recharge when I get home. I like lights that take cr123 as I keep some around as backups (mostly the battery station cells from Malkoff /elzetta lights) but I haven't actually used any yet. The low waste and much lower cost is nice, especially since runtime doesn't have any effect on my usage.

Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again...I liked neutral tints before they were cool.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I also use primaries exclusively in my HDS lights. The capacity and reliability is great. The warning/step down on the HDS leaves me with plenty of warning and hours of useful light (more than moonlight) when it starts the step down process.
I also rotate which HDS I may be carrying at any given time, so keeping track of which rechargeable has been sitting and needs juice is a PITA.
Primaries are cheap and a 12 pack of primaries lasts months. Shelf life is great. The impact of throwing away a small cell is minimal to the waste left from a take out meal, or packaging from most consumer products. I'll cut back somewhere else and keep the convenience of primaries.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Batteries may be small but to me still important. That's why I use li-ion or nimh in all devices, have a metal spoon so I don't ever use plastic utensil, carry groceries in my backpack to avoid plastic bags, use a nalgene water bottle, etc. It all adds up. Not saying everyone needs to do the same, just how I choose to live my life.

Hello darkness my old friend,
I've come to talk with you again...I liked neutral tints before they were cool.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Originally Posted by Slumber Pass

I also use primaries exclusively in my HDS lights. The capacity and reliability is great. The warning/step down on the HDS leaves me with plenty of warning and hours of useful light (more than moonlight) when it starts the step down process.
I also rotate which HDS I may be carrying at any given time, so keeping track of which rechargeable has been sitting and needs juice is a PITA.
Primaries are cheap and a 12 pack of primaries lasts months. Shelf life is great. The impact of throwing away a small cell is minimal to the waste left from a take out meal, or packaging from most consumer products. I'll cut back somewhere else and keep the convenience of primaries.

This covers it for me. During the summer, it could be a week or more before I touch a CR123 light (other than the light dedicated to visiting the backyard with the dog), so who knows how long any one rechargeable might sit unattended. I like the idea of rechargeables but in practice they don't generally fit my needs as well as primaries.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I just got in an 18650. That will be my primary light but the CR123 light will be my backup with a primary in it. I intend to get a rechargeable for it. It’s easy to pop them on the charger to top off.

during this time the light is performing a battery detect reset and is waiting for a signal that a 3v Primary has been inserted.

IF the LiIon tests at 3v, putting it back in the light would create the possibility of overdischarge.
Note to self, if LiIon battery tests below 3.2v, recharge before reinserting..

btw, I think it is not ok to reinsert a partly depleted Primary, for example one that reads 2.5v, as the Light will assume it is LiIon and trigger the battery warnings.. is that right? (due to primary battery type detection failure)

HDS goes to a lot of effort to be able to tell a Primary apart from a LiIon, so that UnProtected IMR batteries can be used. But imho, IMR are not really needed for the HDS experience, since the output is fully regulated. That is, the advantage of IMR chemistry is its fast discharge capability, which does not come into play with an HDS.

most other CR123/16340 lights will overdischarge an UnProtected LiIon, or can go suddenly dark when a protection circuit is triggered. (If other battery level warnings are ignored)

An HDS, properly operated (do not do voltage checks), will not go dark, it will just keep getting dimmer, and flashing, so that when you wake up you can still find your light and put a fresh battery in it :-)

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

4. Installing a New BatteryUnscrew the battery compartment from the head and remove the old battery from the battery compartment. Insert the new battery into the battery compartment with the positive terminal out. Align the head and battery compartment, press them together to overcome the spring pressure and screw the battery compartment and head back together.As you screw the battery compartment and head back together and if the battery compartment has been removed for an extended period, your flashlight comes on dimly for 7 seconds following a battery change to indicate that a reset has taken place and that your flashlight is functioning correctly. If you change the battery quickly enough, your flashlight will not reset and no reset indication will be displayed. A reset does not change any of your flashlight’s settings.No special actions are needed to use rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries. Your flashlight detects them automatically.However, if you have been using rechargeable Lithium-ion batteries and want to return to using regular (non-rechargeable) batteries, you must perform a reset. The simplest way to perform a reset is to turn on your flashlight (with the button released) and open the battery compartment until your flashlight turns off and then replace the battery compartment. If you fail to perform a reset when returning to using non-rechargeable batteries, your flashlight will act as if the new non- rechargeable battery needs replacing – just do a reset to restore normal operation.In general, primary (non-rechargeable) batteries provide longer runtimes. However, rechargeable batteries provide a lower cost of operation and allow you to always leave home with a full battery.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Note: rechargeable batteries must be fully charged before installation. Never install partially charged rechargeable batteries in your light. Once you have installed fully charged batteries, do not open the battery compartment until a replacement set of batteries becomes available.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I'm all IMR these days. I really don't like going out with a light that's only got a partial charge, so I tend to top up every night.
Before I managed to find rechargeable 9v cells I filled boxes up with partly used primary ones from radio microphones. One primary was not enough to do a whole show but more than enough to make it through the first half. The waste of money and resourses still upsets me now. I did manage to use most of them up by very anal metering and swapping, but it was a pain in the bott for me and the poor sods who were wearing the mics.
I keep a dozen or so primaries around for emergencies, but I have enough IMRs to cover most eventualities.
P

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Cell size can change but rechargeable for me. Several reasons, primaries are expensive here in the UK. I can top off my 16340 or 18650 when ever i like and always know i have a full tank(granted smaller in the 16340 compared to the CR123). But that is what spares are for, if i was swapping out rechargeable 16340's regular(like 2 or 3 times a night), its telling me i should be using 18650. If i use a CR123 for 10 mins tonight, 5 mins tomorrow, on say 30lm or so levels. Then i go out looking for a lost cat(imaginary one), i would have to swap out my semi spent CR123 for new.............i dont think i would re-use the old. Now i might have had enough juice and some for my cat hunting ...............might not have. Its a variable on the user and application intended, some would just carry on with the cr123 till spent and swap out for new. I kind of have an OCD with voltage,kind of a want full V before next use thing i have going. Not been left in the dark yet anyway, nor out of pocket being rechargeable.

If i was in supply of free CR123 cells and on duty, then things might be different!

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Originally Posted by ven

... Then i go out looking for a lost cat(imaginary one), i would have to swap out my semi spent CR123 for new.............i dont think i would re-use the old. Now i might have had enough juice and some for my cat hunting ...............might not have. Its a variable on the user and application intended, some would just carry on with the cr123 till spent and swap out for new...

Perfect excuse for a back up light! If my CR123 dies, I can just use my other HDS for any unfinished feline location duties.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

You are missing "both" in the poll.

Historically I have always used AW rCR123 but those are getting to be several years old now. Ages ago I bought a 12pk of primaries, but I still have most of them left and they are reaching there "best use by" date. So I've decided to use them up. I figure for a camping trip I'll throw in a freshly charged rechargeable cell and for around the house the old primaries, but I only use up a primary twice a year or less. Maybe in three years when I use up the primaries there will be 1000+ mAh safer chemistry 16340's available. The 16340 format hasn't seen the capacity increases 18650 has.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

It really needed to be a multiple choice as I have two and use them differently.

In this case I had to vote for the one I use more power in, the 2xAA, and I go for NiMh not Alkaline. So for the highest power use, it has rechargeable cells.

The other one is more of a standby light and its super low output is what I use the most. So for this it is CR123 as the shelf life is very long and with no protection circuit, can be drained very very low. In this light, using it the way I do, a CR123 is lasting upwards of three years, so I'm OK with them being primary. Bearing in mind rechargeables age, even though it might be better to use a rechargeable cell, if that cell is only charged two or three times in ten years, was that better than 2 or three primaries?

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Perfect excuse for a back up light! If my CR123 dies, I can just use my other HDS for any unfinished feline location duties.

Might as well carry a spare cell in another HDS, fumbling in the dark swapping out cells , or a quick draw of your 2nd HDS from a hogo holster wins hands down.

Originally Posted by peter yetman

You are never going to find a lost imaginary cat, no matter how many lights you use.
P

Actually that would make a good sig line.

..................depends on how good your imagination is

Originally Posted by subwoofer

It really needed to be a multiple choice as I have two and use them differently.

In this case I had to vote for the one I use more power in, the 2xAA, and I go for NiMh not Alkaline. So for the highest power use, it has rechargeable cells.

The other one is more of a standby light and its super low output is what I use the most. So for this it is CR123 as the shelf life is very long and with no protection circuit, can be drained very very low. In this light, using it the way I do, a CR123 is lasting upwards of three years, so I'm OK with them being primary. Bearing in mind rechargeables age, even though it might be better to use a rechargeable cell, if that cell is only charged two or three times in ten years, was that better than 2 or three primaries?

Good to see you about subwoofer

If charging 2 or 3 times in 10yrs, agree primaries make for a better choice. Would go as far as charging just once a year, primaries would be my choice in a HDS imo as well(just my opinion).

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

I am a rechargeable battery guy through and through. I love rechargeable batteries for the environmental friendliness as well as being so much more economical to use. They literally pay for themselves.

Once a primary has been used, whatever has been used is gone and can’t be replaced. At a certain point you have to choose between taking a battery with a half charge or leaving it at home. Or having a full spare.

Rechargeable batteries can be fully charged so you always have a full battery. Primary can make sense as a backup battery, especially if you rarely or never use your backup battery.

Primary batteries make sense to me if the light is being used as a backup or emergency light. If the light will sit unused for months or maybe even years at a time, primary batteries are the way to go as the light will be ready when you finally need it.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Oh I know. But as has been pointed out, the engineering work has already been done to design an 18650 tube. An 18350 tube is literally the same design with less distance between the tail threads and the head threads.

Re: Primary vs. Rechargeable. What's in your HDS?

Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo

At a certain point you have to choose between taking a battery with a half charge or leaving it at home. Or having a full spare.

True, but a CR123 at half charge is equivalent to a fully charged 16340. I fully appreciate your concerns about the environment, though. Recharging batteries is itself part of this hobby, but sometimes I tire of maintaining lithium ion cells. They are little divas. I have another light that I used last night only because the 18650 in it had been @4.1v for too long and needed to be discharged. Don't take me wrong, it was still fun. I'm a flashaholic but I enjoy the simplicity of primary cells.