After another alleged suicide at Foxconn's Shenzhen, China, plant on Wednesday, and an attempted suicide on Thursday, the company revealed that it plans to give a 20 percent pay raise to its employees.

According to Reuters, an employee jumped to his death on late Wednesday, marking the tenth suicide at the Chinese plant this year alone. Another employee attempted to slit his wrists on Thursday, but survived after receiving medical attention.

Foxconn -- the registered trade name of Hon Hai Precision Industry -- will increase workers' salaries by 20 percent. Entry-level workers at the company's factory in Longhua reportedly earn just over 900 yuan, or $131.80 U.S. per month before overtime and bonuses.

Recently, an undercover report from Southern Weekend revealed that employees sign "voluntary overtime affidavits" to take home more than the local minimum wage that can be earned through a regular 36-hour workweek.

This week, Apple publicly stated it is looking into the issues at Foxconn, and said it is "saddened and upset" by the suicides that have occurred there recently. The Mac maker has its own investigative team that will carry out independent investigations.

Apple, along with numerous other electronics makers, partners with Foxconn for the building of its products. It creates iPhones and iPads for the Cupertino, Calif., company.

This week, other technology giants Nokia and Sony joined Apple in showing concern over the labor conditions at Foxconn. Both companies said they, too, are looking into conditions at the factory in Shenzhen. Previously, HP and Dell had also expressed a similar sentiment.

Apple began auditing its plants in 2006 after a newspaper report suggested workers at a Foxconn plant were treated unfairly and forced to operate under sweatshop-like conditions. Apple now conducts an annual audit of its overseas partners, and last year found that more than half weren't paying their workers valid overtime rates.

Rather disgraceful it took 10 people to kill themselves to get a 20% raise, talk about greed!! The raise is nice, but I would guess it's not all about money it's also about overtime, pressure to produce quickly and management. Apple, Dell, Sony and others need to pressure them to change their management style also and hours workers are forced to work. Too much pressure and bad working conditions on anyone even if making more money can make one snap (e.g. U.S. postal workers, etc.).

Would be nice if Apple and other U.S. companies moved production back to the U.S. or at the very least to Mexico to easier moderate, but that'll never happen - as with Foxconn, it's all about money - profits and greed. And these companies don't want to pay higher hourly wages, benefits, and higher production cost - this whole thing is just sad all around.

What the tech world really needs to do is have a US representative for human resources, not in hiring but just to make sure things are going well for the employees. A "The Doctor is In" complaint department where employees can get off their shoulders what is bothering them without fear of being scorned, scoffed, or fired.

If it is true that just about every major computer/electronic maker is having something manufactured by this company, then the stint of the US worker only needs to be a month or so...

One or two month(s) for Apple rep, then Dell's rep, then HP's rep, then Nokia's rep, then Sony rep, etc.

Again, these reps should just make their presence known that they are there for the welfare and benefit of the employee to be able to come and speak up when conditions warrant like massive overtime or worse, OT with no pay, no days off, no holidays off or whatever is bothering them. Even if it is "I live in Communist China!" That might not be changed but at least they can scream out the complaint and have no fear that they will be dragged away by government officials, the police, etc and sent to re-education camps.

This BS of "sending" an investigative team to poke around is BS and accomplishes little. It's harder to pull the wool over ones eyes if they are constantly looking 24 hours a day!

If Foxconn wants to retain the manufacturer contracts, they will be quick to change their ways if the tech world banded together and spoke with one voice. Will it end suicides? Not all, but hopefully reduce them a bit. I know Foxconn is a big company, what, over 800,000 employees and statistically it has less suicides then 800,000 average everyday people in China, but really, what is the suicide rate at IBM? IBM vs similar population size outside IBM of everyday citizens? Or replace IBM with the major corporation of your choice... Ford, American Airlines, etc.

The way SJ thinks these days, perhaps they might build their own manufacturing plant here! That would be cool.

That would be great, but I'm guessing the bottom line would make (already pricey) products even more expensive. However, as an ardent fan of American know-how and workmanship, I would love to see this as well.

As for those poor souls at Foxconn: Immediate psychiatric help must be offered. There are so many great drugs available to help folks overcome those really dark places in life.

Reducing the work hours or increasing breaks can help reduce the mind-numbing monotony that might drive some over the edge.

I wonder where the idea of more money came from? Foxconn employees ought to be paid fairly of course. However, It seems that would be a somewhat minor concern to people who are troubled to the point of suicide.

While I would love to see that happen , What would an iPhone cost if it were made in the US?

Glad that high profile companies are looking into this.
Have to wonder what is so bad that you would kill yourself over a Job

Yes costs here would be the issue due to wages and medical etc. but a wholly owned Apple manufacturing facility just might be able to be cost effective especially (I hate to say) if it is robotic as far as possible.

Steve has the $s to do this ... if he wanted to.

Better automated in the USA than slave labor in China (where everything else is made not just Apple .. and few as well I might add).

Imagine Apple products with 'Made in The USA' stamped on them again!

Ok I will wake up now and stop dreaming \

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

One of the odd things about a suicide is that it can have a tendency to generate more suicides; someone vulnerable to suicidal thoughts notices all the angst and attention it generates. In a sick sort of way it actually reinforces their "that'll show them" mentality. The more attention this gets inside of FoxConn, the worst the problem will be; at least in the short term. Very sad, but true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roos24

I've said this before, time for Apple to take the lead and move production back to the USA.

If the US would coerce the PRC to float the Chinese yuan against Western currencies, this option would be much more viable. The only reason that Chinese labor continues to be as competitive as it is stems from the Chinese government's manipulation of the yuan against the US$.

I've said this before, time for Apple to take the lead and move production back to the USA.

It's got to be on their mind. Robotics are playing more and more a roll in mfg, so the labor costs of moving to usa would be less expensive. I know a company who is coming back from china because automation improvements and doing away with shipping container expenses and extra warehouseing that was needed. In his industry he told me it just became a wash. China is not subsidizing their particular industry anymore. Very interesting.

I've said this before, time for Apple to take the lead and move production back to the USA.

Probaby. I remember my wife being shocked rather receny when I mention Apple products are built in china. Even she knew it used to be American made.

Then again what apple store employees get now compared to the store first few years, pales in comarison. Techs made 70k. Now it's 40k. Creative make about $15 an hour and specialist make ona stage, $10.50. They can never afford to buy Apple products unless they live at home. Plus back then they had commision sharing but man has cottage gotten greedy.

Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.

don't forget about things like corporate taxes and health insurance and other costs beyond employee salary.

and what about comparison to wages at other companies in the same area? or average monthly wage in the area or for all of china?

$130 a month sounds like a pittance to me - but if the average working wage there is $20 then that is a lot by comparison.

also keep in mind that a 20% increase in payroll for line workers does not translate into a 20% increase if the cost of each unit produced since payroll is only one component of the process.

Another item to consider is that a factory built here might need far fewer employees and have higher levels of automation. So yes it is a financial equation and 800,000 workers at $130 a month is less expensive than 2600 workers at $3000 (or so) a month plus all the other overhead and tooling for increased automation.

And as pointed out - Apple is not the only customer so you would not be replacing 800,000 workers.

f Foxconn wants to retain the manufacturer contracts, they will be quick to change their ways if the tech world banded together and spoke with one voice. Will it end suicides? Not all, but hopefully reduce them a bit. I know Foxconn is a big company, what, over 800,000 employees and statistically it has less suicides then 800,000 average everyday people in China, but really, what is the suicide rate at IBM? IBM vs similar population size outside IBM of everyday citizens? Or replace IBM with the major corporation of your choice... Ford, American Airlines, etc.

Actually it's 400,000 workers at Foxconn, and one story said the suicide rate at Foxconn is the same as the general population in China. That was before this last one, which probably raised the rate over the national average (unless 5,000 Chinese committed suicide in the last week).

As you say, it would be interesting to see the figures for American corporations.

I've been to China to place production there, and we do for some type of production. Will soon go back for audit of our partners there.

Moving production back state side (or elsewhere in the world at all) is not an option. It's that simple. The way chinese production is managed simply can't compare. And there is no way we can complain about quality either. They are simply very good at doing this and the general economy level allows for low wages as others has described. Wages may be low in Africa, but quality and stability is awful to take one example.

What should be a concern for anyone is the way society there is organized. I don't know about suicide statistics, but part from that, these jobs are often considered good jobs, believe it or not. Being a farmer on the countryside is not as well paid and standard of living when you leave the east and south-east coast and move a couple of hours into China is very low. And be aware about numbers - China is a country with 1,4 billion(!!!) something citizens. Low percentage will give high counts.

But as a worker in China you hardly dare question the situation at your job. One example: I guess all of you carry your own references and CVs to hand to anyone where you go for a job. Not in China. The employer holds the documents and hands it to the next employer. And it's not uncommon that good references simply are stolen. How do you choose a new job in this situation? If you are not satisfied or in conflict with your boss - how do you break free? There is hardly an option. And this is one of several examples.

But that's politics. Apple should care for the workers at their subcontractors the best they can. That's a part of the brand which I trust! And my opinion is that Apple actually does a good job compared to many others having production in China. But they can't relax for a second!

Yes costs here would be the issue due to wages and medical etc. but a wholly owned Apple manufacturing facility just might be able to be cost effective especially (I hate to say) if it is robotic as far as possible.

Steve has the $s to do this ... if he wanted to.

Better automated in the USA than slave labor in China (where everything else is made not just Apple .. and few as well I might add).

Imagine Apple products with 'Made in The USA' stamped on them again!

Ok I will wake up now and stop dreaming \

Yes you are definitely dreaming. If your scenario were to come to pass you MAY still have relatively cheap electronics to buy BUT there wouild be 400,000 Foxconn workers out of jobs, returned to the rice fields to eek out a starvation existence. Why do you think they came to the factory in the first place? Did they like the idea of living and working for low wages in a giant factory? No, it's because they were starving to death as rural peasants. And not many American workers would be needed in the fully automated plant you envision.

Your (our) ethics and morals may be valid but the reality of the world is in stark contrast to those ethics and morals. It took over 1oo years of the industrial revolution to produce decent working conditions and wages in this country, including tens of thousands of deaths, labor riots, unionism, and legislation. More than a few would say that we've not made enough progress here either. Just look at the coal mining industry, the produce industry. Yet you (we) dream of just snapping our fingers and making it all go away?

Please understand I'm just using your post as an example and not ragging on you personally. We all need to balance our feeling with reality. The Chinese people are the real ones who need to deal with this just like we did 100 years ago. Back then WE were the source of cheap labor for mass produced goods. WE were the ones who worked in sweat shops and breathed in asbestos fibers. WE lived in company towns. And WE committed suicide to escape our miserable existence

The reason why Apple and many multi-national corporations are in China is because of China's projection to be the world's largest economy by 2050. Followed by the U.S., then India.

The U.S. is going to be hobbled economy speaking for many years to pay off the $ 1.6 Trillion bailout of Congresses experiment in socialized sub-prime housing with Freddie and Fannie, as well as the smaller bailouts of banks, GM, AIG.

Also it's looking like the U.S. is going to be bailing out the failed socialist leaning governments of Europe and perhaps Japan too.

With higher taxes, unions (UAW $75 a hour to put cars together!) and other obstacles, it makes perfect sense to have operations in China. The U.S. needs prices to deflate a lot more and China prices to inflate as to compete with the China workers making 56 cents a hour (plus 20% pay raise).

Margaret Thatcher - "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money (to spend)"

China has now dropped to #2 spot of foreign holders of U.S. debt, Japan (shaky as it is) is now #1 again.

The only thing that can beat a Chinese worker right now is a automated factory running 24/7 and if you notice, more and more Apple devices are seemingly put together totally by machine. The iPad being the latest.

Yes you are definitely dreaming. If your scenario were to come to pass you MAY still have relatively cheap electronics to buy BUT there wouild be 400,000 Foxconn workers out of jobs, returned to the rice fields to eek out a starvation existence. Why do you think they came to the factory in the first place? Did they like the idea of living and working for low wages in a giant factory? No, it's because they were starving to death as rural peasants. And not many American workers would be needed in the fully automated plant you envision.

Your (our) ethics and morals may be valid but the reality of the world is in stark contrast to those ethics and morals. It took over 1oo years of the industrial revolution to produce decent working conditions and wages in this country, including tens of thousands of deaths, labor riots, unionism, and legislation. More than a few would say that we've not made enough progress here either. Just look at the coal mining industry, the produce industry. Yet you (we) dream of just snapping our fingers and making it all go away?

Please understand I'm just using your post as an example and not ragging on you personally. We all need to balance our feeling with reality. The Chinese people are the real ones who need to deal with this just like we did 100 years ago. Back then WE were the source of cheap labor for mass produced goods. WE were the ones who worked in sweat shops and breathed in asbestos fibers. WE lived in company towns. And WE committed suicide to escape our miserable existence

Foxcom if happy to be in the new free enterprise world can seek new clients as we all do in the free market. I think your entire post is very misguided. You are essentially arguing Apple cannot change how it does business out of some moral requirement to employ foreign workers? That's a new one on me!

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've owned them all.Long on AAPL so biased"Google doesn't sell you anything, Google just sells you!"

$131 per month compared to $1160 in the USA at minimum wage? Not gonna happen.

Plus all the extra benefits and legal costs in the US. When you add in environmental and legal expenses, the difference could be twice that figure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wurm5150

MONEY IS NOT THE ANSWER AND WILL NOT STOP SUICIDES... FOXCONN needs a change in their working environment and stop running their shops like a military operation.

EXACTLY. Foxconn employees are very well paid by China standards already. Giving them more money isn't going to change things. If they want to improve things, making life better for the employees would probably have more impact. Shorter hours, better working conditions, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mesomorphicman

Rather disgraceful it took 10 people to kill themselves to get a 20% raise, talk about greed!!

The people didn't kill themselves to get a raise. Money is not likely to solve the problem. Furthermore, suicide happens in every culture in the world. The Foxconn suicide rate is roughly equal to the rate throughout the country, so it's not likely to be related to ANYTHING Foxconn has done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevetim

It's got to be on their mind. Robotics are playing more and more a roll in mfg, so the labor costs of moving to usa would be less expensive. I know a company who is coming back from china because automation improvements and doing away with shipping container expenses and extra warehouseing that was needed. In his industry he told me it just became a wash. China is not subsidizing their particular industry anymore. Very interesting.

In theory that is true. In practice, automation works best on huge volumes (many, many millions) of identical systems involving only a couple of assembly steps. The iPad and other iDevices are too complicated to be readily automated and even if they were able to do it, the finished machinery would be so specialized that it would have to be scrapped as soon as there was a design change.

Automation works for making bolts or paperclips. It is not yet at the stage where it can easily assemble an entire electronic device.

Quote:

Originally Posted by elroth

Actually it's 400,000 workers at Foxconn, and one story said the suicide rate at Foxconn is the same as the general population in China. That was before this last one, which probably raised the rate over the national average (unless 5,000 Chinese committed suicide in the last week)..

Looks like someone needs to go back and read their statistics text book again. With something like a dozen suicides, a difference of one either way is not a significant difference.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Are you nutz?
You want to pay 10,000 for an iPhone?
Unless they hire illegals in the US w/ no benefits etc.

Actually, the input for salaries is a fraction of the cost.

The truth is, the world's production giant of World War II would embarrass itself trying to compete with the people who have put up huge plants like this, the capital investment of making all the RAM, etc.--

We decided to have Wall Street produce phony paper instead of Pittsburg producing steel. Now we see what happens when you go the way of the British empire.

The reason why Apple and many multi-national corporations are in China is because of China's projection to be the world's largest economy by 2050. Followed by the U.S., then India.

That is nonsense. That explains why companies are setting up retail operations in China, but every company I've dealt with who moved their manufacturing to China (and I've dealt with dozens) has done so solely for cheap labor.

If it were simply a matter of reaching the Chinese market, they could just as easily manufacture in the U.S. and ship there. We have so many containers coming into the US from China and so many containers going back empty that shipping costs from the US to China are insignificant.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

In theory that is true. In practice, automation works best on huge volumes (many, many millions) of identical systems involving only a couple of assembly steps. The iPad and other iDevices are too complicated to be readily automated and even if they were able to do it, the finished machinery would be so specialized that it would have to be scrapped as soon as there was a design change.

Automation works for making bolts or paperclips. It is not yet at the stage where it can easily assemble an entire electronic device.

I'd say it's a lot more advanced than just making bolts or paperclips, just look at any car assembly plant. Most circuit boards are all machine made, it's too detailed and precise for manual labor.

Apple's iPhones, iPods and iPads are certainly more machine assembled than Mac's for instance and Apple moves even closer to total automation assembly with each new product release.

And true that no machine can make a device from scratch, it's really a object of blending the advantages of both (cheap) manual labor and automation, feeding the assembly machine basically.

Well that'll be great but that also means you'll be paying double or triple for your gadgets. I'm not just talking Apple but others as well.

That might make people stop and respect their gadgets and try to make them last longer, which is a very good thing overall. Disposable, low-life gadgetry isn't good. People would also be more picky about the gadgets they buy. I hear a lot of stuff about home goods in the past that would last decades. Now I wouldn't want to be stuck with my iBook for decades (indeed I've used it for five years, not so much in the past six months though), but five years isn't so bad rather than three.

It might not add too much to a computer, where the component costs are higher, and the assembly costs a lower proportion of the total, but yeah, it could double the production cost of an iPhone, etc.

However I think the current generation (me included) feels too entitled to new things, all the time, for cheap.

That is nonsense. That explains why companies are setting up retail operations in China, but every company I've dealt with who moved their manufacturing to China (and I've dealt with dozens) has done so solely for cheap labor.

If it were simply a matter of reaching the Chinese market, they could just as easily manufacture in the U.S. and ship there. We have so many containers coming into the US from China and so many containers going back empty that shipping costs from the US to China are insignificant.

The 'cheap labor in China' reasoning depends upon the concept that the U.S. will remain the worlds largest market, but that will change by 2050 and companies in China already will have the advantage of capitalizing on that market. That's why Apple is building Apple Stores in China, despite the fact that a lot of Chinese can't afford Apple products, they are setting the stage for later.

Rather disgraceful it took 10 people to kill themselves to get a 20% raise, talk about greed!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jragosta

The people didn't kill themselves to get a raise. Money is not likely to solve the problem. Furthermore, suicide happens in every culture in the world. The Foxconn suicide rate is roughly equal to the rate throughout the country, so it's not likely to be related to ANYTHING Foxconn has done.

Thank you for only using the first sentence of my comment and ignoring everything else I typed to twist it to your own thought process and comments. Now I know how politicians and athletes feel when misquoted.

To say the Foxconn suicide rate is the same as the rest of China and that clears Foxconn of any wrong doing I greatly disagree with. I don't know how many employees they have, but I'm going to guess-timate it's a few hundred or a couple thousand, to compare the suicide rate of maybe 1000-2000 employees to over 1 billion is not fair to me. If a city the size of Wichita has the same cancer or suicide rate of the entire U.S. to me that says there is something wrong in Wichita. Foxconn should not have the same rates as the country, it should be drastically lower if I'm asked. But you're obviously free to think what you want.