Look, theres a crowd of vegans that choose to be that way because there friends 'cool' older brother who has tattoos doesnt eat meat, or because they read somewhere that Sole is vegeterian.

Then, theres a crowd of vegans that have moral reasons, health reasons, or at the very least some type of explanation.

The point of this thread was to dismiss the first group and learn from the second.

The second group seems to understand that, the first group just........doesnt.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:40 pm

Merganser

Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 135
Location: Minnesota

Re: .

The main question is moral gratification then, what exactly is that to you??[/quote]

Plants lack the ability to make decisions. Everything is a result of external cues with no cognitive thought put into it.

Plants can keep growing and be cultivated...thus there is an immeasurable supply of them...

There are a million reasons why eating plants are superior to eating meat...

But for me it comes down to what I will do with my own 2 hands. I will not slice a cow's throat - so I won't regularly pay someone else to do it.

- Shane[/quote]
I understand your point, but just because a plant does not have a brain does not mean it doesnt make "decisions". A plant makes it's own food, some plants eat insects, some are able to protect themselves using parts of the plant, etc etc. In my opinion I dont think plants go on just external cues. You are still killing a plant whether that bothers you or not, it doesnt matter. Killing a cow seems more extreme because a person can see the pain and the blood that comes with it. Actually, sometimes cultivating plants isnt always easy due to flooding or lack of rain and that is why grocery stores jack up prices on vegetables and fruits when there is a bad year, same with meat, when not enough calves are born and grown to be slaughtered the price of meat can go up.
Jen

Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:48 pm

The_Human

Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693

I thought this was at the very least, a funny coincidence.

Your Daily Horoscope for June 26, 2003

You could be in a sassy mood today. When others ask you a question, you might be tempted to make a curt or a smart remark. You have a clever way with words, but try not to be too saucy! If you are too harsh with your language, your words could come back to haunt you. You never know when a remark could be misinterpreted. So bite your tongue if you can, and stick to comments about the weather!

"Oh my god, now hes believing in horoscopes, does he not see the obvious, broad, generalizations associated with those things?? Ill bet he has a psuedo-mohawk too."

Thu Jun 26, 2003 3:32 pm

Bles

Joined: 04 Jul 2002
Posts: 561
Location: RI

If someone is a vegan the reasons should go without saying...

It's not the same as being a vegetarian where as it might just be for a health reason or distaste of meat... if you're vegan there's obviously some ethics and/or politics involved.

I've been a vegan going on 4 years. I wasn't aware it was really becoming that big of a trend but whatever... that's got it's ups and downs. To be honest I can understand where you're coming from with the coffee shop vegans comment. There's definitely a lot of chumps around that have hopped on the bandwagon, and it sucks that people like that spoil the "image" of the people who are genuine about whatever the issue may be... but then again even if these fools are doing it just to be cool... one more person as a vegan is still one more person as a vegan- regardless of their sincerity, ya know? Even if they get the pretensious cock out of their ass in a year and go back to eating meat... it's possible they might have turned it on to someone who took it to heart, or at least stopped "supporting the industry" for a year... so fuck it, who's to complain...

If you're genuinely interested in answering "why?" though, you should do the obvious thing and read some peta.com shit or something... I don't think anyone except people that just became vegetarians are going to sit and bicker with you about statistics or whatever else because all in all that shit gets old reeeeeally fast... fast enough to even annoy another vegan.

...but then again I think Jay Leno is funnier than Conan so what do I know...

The_Human wrote: Look, theres a crowd of vegans that choose to be that way because there friends 'cool' older brother who has tattoos doesnt eat meat, or because they read somewhere that Sole is vegeterian.

Then, theres a crowd of vegans that have moral reasons, health reasons, or at the very least some type of explanation.

The point of this thread was to dismiss the first group and learn from the second.

The second group seems to understand that, the first group just........doesnt.

wow...i am amazed. based on what you said, you assume that the people who responded to you negatively are a) vegans b) vegans who don't know why they are vegans and are tatooed, coffee shop, sole worshipping types. do you see how crazy this is? like i said before, i eat meat. that means i am not a vegan. that also means i am not a vegan who worships sole and drinks coffee reading poetry. i am just offended by your ignorance. and the fact that you obviously do not understand the degree of yr. flawed logic.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:35 pm

KrangTHE ORC BREATH

Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Posts: 811
Location: NSW, australia

am01ne wrote:

Krang wrote: But i read this study which basically said all throughout history we pretty much only ate meat for big celebrations

Hmmm... that must've been written by some sort of stupid person.

Fraid not. Study history.

The only people who ate meat fairly often were noble class people in some societies... who have always been in the minority.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:50 pm

Machiavel

Joined: 30 Oct 2002
Posts: 766

Actually the main reason people in the dark ages and such didnt eat much meat was because it was so damn expensive. Thus why if you were a little more fat than others you were more attractive in some sense, because it showed that you could afford enough food to afford that luxury.

In fact i am pretty sure that back in the day men would go to the market and trade what they could for bacon, when they got home they would hang it up, and the man of the house would be able to take pride in "bringing home the bacon" and when they would have guests over, they would generally offer them a peice of bacon, which the guests would choose, and they would all sit around and "chew the fat". True shit.

The_human your just digging yourself deeper and deeper here. Your attempt at cynical wittiness and criticism is evidence that you yourself are just a victim of your own weak generalizations.

I should change my name to coffeeshopvegan. I am gonna start telling chicks i am vegan, and hope they dont look in my refridgerator. If they do see the eggs though, ill tell them im trying to hatch them. That should shut em up.

Oh yeah, and just to add a good reason not to eat "normal" meat, is that it is so full of antibiotics, and hormones and shit. Also Egg laying chickens (non free range ones) live in such small spaces with the feathers rrubbed off their wings from being so close to each other, and they have generally no beaks. They just lay eggs until their bodies are so depleted of calcium that they die. Being so calcium depleted these chickens cant be slaughtered normally because if you tried to cut the meat their bones would shatter into fragments. so what they do is just grind them up, bones and all, and this is the type of chicken you get when you get those chicken patties in sandwitches or chicken nuggets.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:40 pm

staticGuest

The more vegans the more meat for the rest of us.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:45 pm

The_Human

Joined: 30 Jan 2003
Posts: 1693

Re: keep digging that hole

awww damn wrote: based on what you said, you assume that the people who responded to you negatively are b) vegans who don't know why they are vegans

Pretty much, because those are the ones who seem to want to argue with me rather than 'enlighten' me with their reasons for being vegan.

People can respond so negatively towards what I am saying because, in my opinion, its a belief and its something that they have to preserve inside themselves. Question someones faith and you will get the same reaction.

Ask a truly religious person how they know god is real, a good percentage will give you reasons they believe to be true. Another good percentage will feel threatened by this and start a "my god is better than your god" type conversation. Of course with EXCEPTIONS[which like I said before, everyone here thats getting mad seems to think they are], you will have a similar response to the question "why are you vegan/vegetarian."

I posted this to try and get an answer with substance that works for me, it doesnt have to work for everyone. I wanted to dismiss band-wagon jumping vegans and hear from people with genuine beliefs. Of course I knew that coming onto the non-prophets message board calling people 'coffeeshop vegans' would maybe not sit well. But why is that??

And no not everyone thats getting mad is a coffeeshop vegan, but I would bet, that a good percentage are. Or in someway have thought about it or whatever. Thats fine if I get somebody mad for what Im thinking in my head. Im sure you think things in your head that would piss a lot of people off too but just dont say anything about it. You say the acceptable/appropriate thing and thats what works for you. Well I didnt.

Get pissed about that if you want.

Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:16 pm

quasifoto

Joined: 30 Jun 2002
Posts: 975
Location: Albany

human- do you have a problem with trends in general or is it just something you hold against vegans? there are a crowd of people who follow tons of different things, ie.- rap music. it can be annoying with anything. but a trend that is trying to better things, what's wrong with that? it's also a major american trend not to give a shit about anything. kids eating at McDonald's could be considered trendy. the people who sell animals (in all the many ways) push them WAY harder than any vegan pushes their beliefs, so get over it man. meat eaters are sooo religious. sounds just as dumb, huh?

Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:27 pm

robbndahood

Joined: 09 May 2003
Posts: 127
Location: Santa Cruz, CA

I don't eat meat because:

A) It's more efficient NOT to eat meat. An example would be to take 100 acres of land. If you were to graze cattle on that land, it would yield only 10% of the food compared to if you grew crops on it.

B) I wasn't a big fan of meat anyways. McDonalds, KFC, Burger King... I can do without all that shit. It ends up being healthier as well.

C) The conditions that livestock are kept in are obscene. I'm not big on eating animals that are fed their own shit. Period.

A) It's more efficient NOT to eat meat. An example would be to take 100 acres of land. If you were to graze cattle on that land, it would yield only 10% of the food compared to if you grew crops on it.

B) I wasn't a big fan of meat anyways. McDonalds, KFC, Burger King... I can do without all that shit. It ends up being healthier as well.

C) The conditions that livestock are kept in are obscene. I'm not big on eating animals that are fed their own shit. Period.

and of course...

D) To piss off Texans. And you.

"To piss off Texans. And you."

Assuming all Texans are cattle hearders who eat huge steaks right??

Awwww Damn is coming for you!!!!

Unless of course she takes that in a joking context and doesnt consider it a 'broad generalization'[which joking or not, it still is].