Practice some 180's keeping both hands on the handle. Pop straight up like a giant straight air. On the way DOWN pull with both hands to your hip to do a 180. Don't initiate with your body, use ALL handle, which is what I was doing wrong for a long time. This will help set your axis so you don't go over the nose. That crash SUCKS!

Then when you go to do the 3, wait, even longer than you want to. This is where I still have problems sometimes. Do exactly like the 180: On the way DOWN from the peak of your jump is when you initiate the spin. I always land when I make myself wait long enough.

What you wanna do is ollie off of the wake kind of like on a skateboard, pitch forward a little bit, and once you get the pop start your FS handle-pass. If you are having trouble with too much tension in the line, you really need to make sure you ollie off the wake, which means you do not want to be edging through the wake.

If you edge through the wake you will have too much tension on the line and you will never be able to get that handle pass. Also when you get your pop make sure to bring the handle to your back hip with your thumb pointed down so you will be able to pass it.

I'm so frustrated!!!! I think I have the HS FS 360 nailed down perfectly, except that upon landing, the handle just keeps poppping out of my hand.

I don't have a video to show it, but here's what I'm doing (I think):

- I approach the wake with a real mellow edge and sitting really low - I give a big push at the wake and get huge pop - I must be jumping right, because I am getting a lot of height and I don't get any line tension while in the air. - I (think that I) rotate AFTER the pop (It feels like I begin the rotation at the peak of the jump). - I'm able to bring the handle to the small of my back using my right hand only and I'm able to catch the handle with my left hand (I am left foot forward) - I am able to spot my landing, which is usually in the flats or soon after the second wake - As said, when I land the handle pops out of my (left) hand. It feels like I touch down and then the handle jerks a fraction of a second later. - I also admit that it feels sometimes like I am landing a bit too much on my butt.

RESPONSE

Its harder to hold on if you land in the flats. Maybe try not cutting as hard or lengthen the rope 5ft and just go wake to wake.

i would not lengthen the rope as sometimes the pull can be very different on 3s you can take a MELLOWER CUT cos it sounds like you are not. look for the boat on landing and try landing on a flatter board. If your still having real trouble then curve the boat to the right, this will take the trick more straight up and the line wont be a s tight on landing. Then take the curve less and less when you have more understanding of whats required.

You pop, pull the handle to your butt with BOTH HANDS, then rotate your hips. Pulling the handle to your back will bring your hips around.

Remember the saying "where your head goes, your body will follow." So pull the handle to your back, and look over your shoulder. These two things combined will make your hips (and your whole body) spin the three. The hardest part for most people learning to spin is keeping the handle tight and NOT LETTING GO halfway through.

Thus, pop->pull handle to back and begin to look over shoulder->body follows->handle pass->land->do it two more times (tricks don't count unless you land them twice).

I agree with MinnesotaBoarder. Start out doing them at about 15-16 mph until you get them down. I also think that doing them frontside (turning towards your toeside edge) is easier than backside. What I do for 3's is start out with your hands as far apart on the handle as they'll go. Keep the handle as close to your hips as possible. Let go with your back hand and start your rotation. Think about leaning away from the boat the whole time or you'll catch your heelside edge. Think of the handle as a batton (like in track) that you are trying to pass to yourself behind your back. After you get the handle pass, let go with your other hand and complete your rotation. Hope it helps.

Well man I have to admit the HS 3 is my favorite trick to do, off or on axis with a back hand or front hand grab before the handle pass. I really started to get them consistant when I started to grab them. Slob is probably the easiest to me and helps you to suck up your knees and wait to spin. I will agree that you can land the 3 like andrea has said, that is how they will feel to me when I do them with a back hand grab but that style of 3 will also make learning to take it to 5 very difficult for you later on. When I come in to the wake I try to keep the handle about 4 to 5 inches away from my waist and it is centered to my body. Recently I have been enjoying taking them all to the flats cause the knee is doing good but w2w is easier, and for that I will use a mild progressive edge. I don't let off at the wake at all but still don't have alot of speed cause I never really get on it. 1.Pop with even weight on both feet (to me this is important as to what type of axis you will set) Reach down for the slob grab while bringing your knees up and once it is yours pull the handle hard enough that even if you missed the handle you would still rotate the whole 3 land and ride away. If this happens to you already then you are super close to not only landing them but having them dialed. 2.Pass the handle at the small of your back. You should focus on making sure that the handle is going to the same spot every time so that you back hand is reaching to the same spot every time. This will soon require no thought what so ever. If you have to search for the handle then odds are that you won't make the rotation in time. Once you have the handle in you back hand if you have pulled hard enough then you are going to finish the rotation and land. This is where it seems like the problem comes in for you, I hate landing 3's with the line tight cause of the fall that you speak of above and because even if you do ride away they feel very jerky and not clean and they seem to take a lot of strength to maintain your edge out towards the flats. when I land them now I always have slack in the line cause I have been working on 5s and that is what I have found it takes to get around and get the handle early enough to stick them. If you have a little slack in the line coming around from a 3 then you will need to keep the handle at waist height and push it out towards the flats to stop your rotation and get you stable, your head and chest should be up at this point and you should be looking toward the flats on the side that you are on. If you stop rotating to early then you will either land on the toes and cut right back into the wake or it will be a hard landing if your board in parallel with the boat. Make sure to keep edging out after you land and this should also keep you from going over the nose cause your speed will continue to carry you out towards the flats instead of over the front of your board.

As far as the grab goes, I think that it makes the trick feel more fluid and keeps your legs from throwing you off axis as in the bad board is between you and the boat off axis. It also delays the spin and it helps you to pass the handle at the small of your back and not closer to your butt.

This is a trick where you spin a full 360 degrees when you jump the wake. Don't try this until your good at your heelside 180s.

You can do this trick with a handle pass or wrapped up (ie, your back hand holds the handle braid, while the handle goes round your back hip with your front hand grabbing the handle from behind. This way, your handle stills in your hand all the time). Its probably easier with the handle pass.

To do this trick, cruise in to the wake and pop, keeping your handle close to you. Release your front hand as you rotate, turning your head over your front shoulders once fully in the air, maintaining an upright axis. Bring the handle into the small of your back, grabbing it with your front hand. The rest is easy if you manage to rotate all the way around.

The key to this trick is the approach. If you come in too hard, it would be difficult to do the handle pass. You really want to pop up instead of flying across the wake. Practicing the 'Suicide' trick will probably help you out in this area.

The key to this trick is turning your hip to lead the rotation. Once your hips turn, the rest of your body will follow. Throw in a grab on your toeside edge with your front hand for a SLOB HELI.

when doing a 360 i keep the handle out a little further than a normal w2w jump. i do this because it allows more of a jerk on the rope. everything you are doing sounds great. come in seated as you are have the rope further from your body and you wont need to pull any harder b/c you are pulling much longer(time wise) on the rope. i learned all my 3 riding at about 16 mph no ballast. once i got them nailed i sped the boat up a mph or so and still just went one wake. then i brought the boat up to riding speed still going one wake. and slowly started to add more pop until i was going w2w. i did this over the course of a winter and it took me about 4-5 months to get it them dialed. (but i also learned fs and bs 3's, ts 3s, bs 180's and ts bs 180's) be patient or this trick will scare you off quick. take your time, the falls wont hurt.

take the same cut that you would riding at 20+. EASY!!!! i take a super squatted (knees bent about 90 degrees) approach on an ollie edge. rope extended out near my knees. at 16 mph your not going to go wake to wake. just go one wake(outside to inside) once comfortable at this take a little harder edge at 16 and spin the trick. do this to prepare for increased speeds which equal increased rope tension. then speed the boat up slowly still going just one wake until you can spin them at riding speed (one wake) then start adding edge until you are going w2w!! simple and pain free boys. also decreases the fear big time!!! i got hammered hard trying these at full speed, wake to wake. this takes a little longer but you'll learn them and they will be solid. i threw hundreds of these literally before even going wake to wake.

it helped me tons mike. when i learned these a few years ago i slowed the boat down to about 16 mph, with no ballast and learned them from inside to outside. then outside to inside then i started speeding up the boat

i find when i get hs3 i approach the wake quite fast, ease off my edge a little as i pop off the wake, then when i have initated the jump, pull on the handle hard across the front of my body. From here you just float round and try your best to find the handle.

It took me a while to even find where the handle is to begin with, i tried on land and all that, but the only way to get it consistent is to do it behind a boat.

So main points, Edge hard, ease off just before you leave the wake. Pull the handle hard across the body (to back hip) then reach with your lead hand.

If you can grab hold of the handle, then hang on for all its worth. If you can get the rotation and the handle, you have done the hard bit. Now just stop letting go!

These are some really good tips - you all have helped me a lot. I tried a couple 3's at 16mph and a little more space between my body and the handle and I landed a couple my second time out. The third time, I landed 5 in a row.

This is the advice that has helped me the most: - SLOW the boat down to 16mph and do not jump w2w - come in with a nice progressive edge, not too hard - you're not going for height and distance right now - leave some distance between your body and the handle so you have more pull in the air - pitch forward/let off your edge a little right at the wake

I think the last point is the least emphasized but its really important. I feel like I let the board slide under me and backwards a little as I stand tall. If you're just learning these, this is an entirely different feeling than if you're doing a w2w jump or 180. Maybe someone can elaborate on this.

Also, for the handle pass, I think the batan analogy is best. I struggled with this for a long time. What helped me right before I started landing them is attaching the rope to a post on shore and practicing the motion on the ground. While picturing being in the water, I would let go with my left hand and kind of drift into the 180, avoiding the urge to spin hard too early. Then I would quickly pass the handle and spin back around. I did this a lot so I knew what it felt like and where I was passing the handle every time. Goodluck.

I think the last point is the least emphasized but its really important. I feel like I let the board slide under me and backwards a little as I stand tall. If you're just learning these, this is an entirely different feeling than if you're doing a w2w jump or 180. Maybe someone can elaborate on this.

congrats thomas!!! i take an entirely different edge into the trick as you suggested. you stated that you roll off your edge right at the wake and i actually start my edge into the wake how you finish your edge. i edge in, in a very seated position and stand tall at the top of the wake. this allows me to come into the wake with the minimal amount of tension on the rope and pops my up rather than out as a more progressive edge would. due to the lack of tension on the rope it allows me to keep my axis easier.

It depends. I'm guessing you don't do HS BS 180's right? If you did, then the BS 3 might not be too far away. The majority of people learn a FS 3 first.

Both can hurt pretty bad. I think you'll find the FS 3 to be more of a natural rotation. I assume you're doing HS FS 180's right? The FS 3 is all about the handle pass. If you stay on axis and can get the handle pass, then you'll land them 99% of the time.

I just read an older post that added some confusion....back to basics: left foot forward, cutting towards wake heel side (from starboard side of boat heading to port side), spinning CCW when viewed from the sky.....is a BS or FS spin? I thought is was BS until I just read something that I think said it was FS.

steve that is fs from that description. fs 180s are a million times easier than bs 180's. i personally like(find it easier) to spin bs b/c i can spot the landing alot easier or for a longer period of time. but i think most people would say fs is an easier rotation b/c they cant yet spin a bs 180.

Alan, great stuff on here man. I have been battling these for years.. I really feel like the line tension is my main issue. Cant wait to get out there and try this again. Thanks for putting this together

Yep, don't pass the handle so early. Passing it as you land will keep you from over-rotating. You can also work on stop your head rotation by looking out at the shore your headed towards. In other words, if you can spot the boat with your eyes as you land, then you've spun too far.

Well, now that I see it I think you're problem is much earlier than the landing. Look at your axis in the 4th pic. You are leaning to the right (back towards the wake you left) which is the same position you are landing in. I would slow everything down and really set your axis as you take the first 180 on the way up, and then spin the last 180 on the way down. It seems you might be rushing it, but your heel heavy landing is definitely as a result of you get off axis earlier in the spin.

Thanks dudes! remember you will land how you take offThat's what I figured. I tried putting some more weight on the front foot, however that didn't cure it (yet, will keep trying). Though since I'm landing on my heels (not my back foot) shouldn't I put more weight on my toes instead of back foot...?

"Though since I'm landing on my heels (not my back foot) shouldn't I put more weight on my toes instead of back foot...?"

In a way, yes. Backing off your TS edge will cause you to be rocked back on your heels which is your issue in the air. Try to stay more on edge through the top of the wake...although I have to say that your first three frames look really good.

One more thing that might be hurting you...you don't really need to turn your head much into this rotation. You are which is ok, but you're tilting your head as well as turning it. I'm thinking that tilting action might be throwing off your axis a bit. Does that make sense? Look at frames three and four...your head is leaning towards your left shoulder.

so one thing I have been practicing for my hs3 attempts is to do on my standard w2w jump, pull on the handle, but instead of pulling to my back hip, pull to my front hip (i.e. dont spin, but pull yourself to the boat down the rope). The goal is to physically touch the handle to my hip and generate as much slack as possible.

doing this seems to have really helped my control in the air, I never land with the handle out far, and I get a LOT more pop. I think its enforcing good w2w technique and the hope is that when I finnally decide to pull to my back hip, I've got that feeling of pulling down the rope, generating slack, etc,etc

ugh, tried 5 of these (fs hs 360) over the weekend. even with all of my practicing, and the ability the effortlessly do surface 3's both fs and bs, I never came close. Im not even trying to go for the handle, just spin correctly.

almost every time Im getting pulled off axis by the rope. The book says that im supposed to keep the board in front of me to keep this from happening, but im wondering what yall think. Whats the most common reason I'd be getting pulled off axis?

How how are you getting pulled off axis if you're tossing the handle? I would highly recommend you just go for it each time and not build bad habits of just working on the spin and not the handle pass. I bet tons of people can let go at the wake and spin around but that isn't going to help you land a 360.

Do you have any video? How are you falling? Are you just using a drift edge that just gets you w2w? I would really work on the pulling aspect of the trick and doing a bunch of HS FS 180's where you pull the handle to start your rotation. Others will tell you to slow the boat down and learn the 3 on one wake. Some things work for some that don't work for others.

Let us better know what you're doing right now step-by-step and that will aid in diagnosing your issue.

well, im not throwing the handle, but im not really trying to reach for it with the other hand. I guess im just trying to get my back hand to the blind position to make the 3.

I'm coming in seated, not fast. Ollie edge, big upward pop, land on the wake. when i do fs 180's with or without the grab, I pop, wait, spin the 180 quickly. stop the rotation, wait, fall, land..etc. When I do that. it seems like i have forever and a 3 would be easy.

So ill do several 180's, making sure I get the pop, etc.. Then I come in for the 3. i try to think 180, do a 180 and just not stop my rotation. but just about every time when I dont stop the rotation, when i get to the bs 180 part, my board is behind me with my chest a bit up to the sky.

the one time that i didnt feel that way in the air, I was trying really hard to keep the board in front of me, instead of being perfectly vertical.

i wouldnt doubt that my adrenaline gets to me and i spin early, like a big floating 180 would be, and thats why i get pulled over.

or, I get excited and have a bit more progressive edge, and end up doing an off axis 3, but Im doubting this.

I'll try to get a video this weekend. I need to see for myself anyways.

i keep spinning off axis on my hs fs 3s. this trick used to be money in the bank and now i keep losing it, when i get it back i always spin it off axis making the handle pass really hard or not at all... how i learn to keep this spin with good pop and ON axis?

Yes. It looks like you are so concerned about the spin that you don't get good pop off the wake. You never really stand up all the way off the lip. Look at this picture. You are just leaving the wake and have already turned your body and head into the rotation.

landed my first 360 yesterday!! i was soo stoked i couldnt believe it haha. i have been trying them for soo long and finally came on here and read some trick tips. what do you know... landed it second try. thanks for the tips guys!!

Alan: Thanks for doing these - they are awesome. Going to be trying HS 360 & HS BR on this weekend. Look for some wicked falls and scattered body parts if you are on the warm side. I am thinking (hoping) reading thru these will help minimize both though.

steve im pretty sure we met last year. i have the blue super air nautique. i think i came up and introduced myself while you were at your dock. if i remember correctly you live in the same neighborhood as my brother(the waters). shoot me an email if you want to ride sometime and try some things out. prsgtrman@yahoo.com

Alan: That's me - your brother is right down the street from me. We definitely need to ride sometime - I could use someone to critique my technique (or lack thereof). Got some guests up this weekend, so will probably stick to what I know and spare them the falls. I will shoot you an email with my contact info.

Thanks again for putting these together. I am almost there on 360. Get the spin every time - just got to get the dang handle. Going for it at full speed next - heck with this 16 mph thing!

I've always had a mental block when it comes to spinning behind the boat but finally decided to conquer my fear. After reading through this thread and others, I proceeded to stomp it first try. Thanks WakeWorld!