Burrito, Beckett got lucky when he was with the 2003 Marlins. Varitek is magic fingers, which is why he turned down millions to give the Red Sox a huge discount. If Varitek goes down, Salty won't be able to shoutout the Twins in that last inning.

moonslav59 do you agree with harness that the RS should trade Beckett during the off-season if Tek retires? According to harness Josh owes Tek his every success, and without Jason Josh owes his every failure to Tek as well.

According to harness Beckett will be utterly useless in 2012 without Tek catching him.

I await your fair and balanced response.

Beckett is a great pitcher. He will be great without VTek, as long as we have someone who can help him when he's not great an not poor. Salty may be that guy. He is improving at a much better rate than VMart dreamed of.

Josh is not the only pitcher who has benefited from a good game-calling catcher as his battery mate. Vtek is not the only good game calling catcher who has had extended success with Beckett either.

Maybe Tek is Josh's "binky", I really don't care. I just want Josh to keep pitching like softy thougt he couldn't ever do again.

Care to give a fair and balanced repsonse to softy's bashing of Beckett and Theo for extending him?

I'll have to give it some thought - as you deserve a thorough response. While I am putting that together can you put a leash back on your dog (harness) - he's loose and frothing at the keyboard with the lunacy of claiming Beckett is useless without Tek.

"He was very good in 2009, on a pace for another 20-win season, until he lost Tek. In fact, it was the very game Tek went down and Farrell was called away when Beckett "lost it".

Last year he was hurt. When he returned, Tito never paired him with Tek.Hence he was compromised by a catcher who is no longer a FT catcher in the M.L.'s." harness

I think we all know a poor catcher can truly hurt a staff, but an average catcher is all you need if your pitchers are any good.

I happen to think a great game-caller and other intangibles related to having a consistently low CERA is very important to most pitcher's success. They can influence some a bit more than others, but almost all pitchers benefit by having a catcher who knows his stuff.

No, I don't think Josh would be useless without VTek, but it does appear that perhaps he relies on good game callers a little more than most good pitchers.

By the way, harness and I have had a lot of disagreements. There's no "leash". I happen to share harness' view on CERA related value. It has gone on for too many years to be called luck. VTek is not the only good CERA catcher in MLB. I have wanted Theo to go get one for years.

I have wanted Theo to get a great-ranged SS for years. I thought Theo way, way, way overspent for Crawford. I thought VMart wanted too much money for a 1Bman/DH and part time catcher. I wouldn't have minded Beltre staying with no AGon, but I'm happy with AGon. I have my own views and I'm not locked into them. I was never high on Lowrie, but knew he has never had a chance to prove it, so I never bashed him either...except for his low SS range. He's done very well, in spotty duty the last 300 PAs, so I keep the window open for an opinion change. I initially thought Ellsbury was a decent fielding CF'er. I don't believe that now. I once thought Papi was all one vs most LH'd starters, I'm not so sure about that opinion anymore.

It's the rigid thinkers that come to an opinion, sometimes after 1 AB or a handful of games, and never will back down no matter what, and spout hatred and racism and more against our players based on things like going to college that should be more of a concern to you tahn somoen valuing VTek as Beckett's necessary binky.

I'll have to give it some thought - as you deserve a thorough response. While I am putting that together canyouput a leash back on your dog (harness) - he's loose and frothing at the keyboard with the lunacy of claiming Beckett is useless without Tek. " He was very good in 2009, on a pace for another 20-win season, until he lost Tek. In fact, it was the very game Tek went down and Farrell was called away when Beckett "lost it". Last year he was hurt. When he returned, Tito never paired him with Tek. Hence he was compromised by a catcher who is no longer a FT catcher in the M.L.'s. " harness I think we all know a poor catchercan trulyhurt a staff, but an average catcher is all you need if your pitchers are any good.Posted by BurritoT

You can't put two thoughts together without sticking UR foot in UR mouth - and in your buddy's as well.

You blew it, chump! Your "buddy" says:"Catchers have nothing to do with pitching". Haven't you agreed with him?

This thread is totally going off of the rails. For those who are bashing "he of man names" you are just playing into the trap and in the process it is messing up what was an all purpose thread to discuss many things RS.

I've never said fat Beckett couldn't have a good season to follow an embarrassing. Nor have I ever said that Beckett should not have been extended. I have said that Theo was an idiot for extending him prematurely, when his market value during the season would never go up but would likely go down. He overpaid, without a doubt.

Show me anywhere I said Beckett was useless w/o Tek. Or apologize if you have the nuts. My statement was plain enough. And it was factual. As is the data.How you interpret it or comprehend it reflects your inability to get things straight.

The statement/data limits Josh to his time in Boston. Any decent catcher won't compromise him. Any decent catcher won't compromise any pitcher unless they have issues.

How about owning up to your statement:"We all know a poor catcher will hurt a staff".

Are you finally starting to recognize a catcher'srelevance?Or are you denying the statement? If so, Burrito, you'd be joining the LIAR'S CLUB.Softy is the residing president.

Since when have you trusted opinion-based awards as proof of anything?

Jeter is the Jake of SS: all flash and highlight film, but no real D.

His career UZR is -111.9. He's had only one 3 yearstretch where he was slightly plus UZR (2008-2010). He's at -69 in range runs since 2002 and -4.3 on DP runs. His career RF/9 is 4.13. The only thing he's plus at is Fldg%...just like your buddy Jed.

Jeter was never a good SS...ever. It means what it says. Since when have you trusted opinion-based awards as proof of anything? Jeter is the Jake of SS: all flash and highlight film, but no real D. His career UZR is -111.9. He's had only one 3 yearstretch where he was slightly plus UZR (2008-2010). He's at -69 in range runs since 2002 and -4.3 on DP runs. His career RF/9 is 4.13. The only thing he's plus at is Fldg%...just like your buddy Jed. He's had 6 seasons below -11.00 and 5 below -14. His Rtot is -129 Rtot/yr -8 Rdrs since 2003: -114 Rdrs -13 He's had one isolated season of +6.4 (2009), although hisRF/9 that year was just 3.9, but maybe he was average or decent for that one year: I stand corrected.

Posted by moonslav59

Between how terrible Jeter and Posada are/were it's amazing that the Yanks were able to win all those championships with those guys starting. The Yanks obviously would have been much better off with some combo of cabrera, renteria, gonzalez, cora, lugo, lowrie and scutaro at SS and tek, mirabelli and cash at catcher since 1996.

Mo, I get that, as absurd as it is. But, what about your statement that gold gloves mean "nothing". They are voted on by managers and coaches from other teams, explain how they mean "nothing"?

This thread title should be changed to "An Absurd Thread Author's View of 2011: Part 2".He's had one isolated season of +6.4 (2009), although hisRF/9 that year was just 3.9, but maybe he was average or decent for that one year: I stand corrected.

So, you stand corrected on your "never, ever a good defensive SS"? Just want to make sure.

I respect Jeter as a hitter and a player, and acknowledge that he is a first-ballot HOFer after he retires, but even some fans and writers here in New York were a little puzzled when he won the GG last year.

More on reputation and PR than actual performance, IMO.

On the other hand, his house in Tampa is very nice and it is about the size of Rhode Island.

Were they "a little puzzled" when he won the 4 other gold gloves? Are 5 gold gloves "more on reputation and PR than actual performance", when coaches and managers from other teams vote on it? You don't digress, you drivel.Posted by softlawRS