My advice is to continue to spend time with him just as you have - as friends - and see where it goes. Have you asked the mutual friend why she thinks she should arrange something more than friendship with him? Or you could just pass her a note that asks if he likes you.

Thanks guys! That's my plan, just wait it out. No way I'm making a move :o I don't want to ask our friend, because than I have a feeling it would get around the rest of the friends, and that is just way too much pressure.

Thanks guys! That's my plan, just wait it out. No way I'm making a move :o I don't want to ask our friend, because than I have a feeling it would get around the rest of the friends, and that is just way too much pressure.

Here's my completely hypothetical quesion of the day.... you have a good friend of the opposite sex that you've known for a long time. Always been platonic and you've gone out for drinks a few times just the two of you. Well, the last time, the friend ends up paying the whole night, even though you try. At the end of the night, the friend kisses you and you end up making out. Completely sober. Opinions as to motive/intent? Anyone?

At the risk of being a buzzkill, my first thought is that someone who insists on paying for stuff for you before kissing you is someone who fundamentally believes sex is bought. Maybe he is just trying to take care of you/be generous, but that whole "money for sex" dynamic is a big part of why I am not interested in dating per se. I think going along with such a dynamic is tantamount to accepting a second class citizen status in the relationship.

I wasn't there. Maybe that's not it all. But if it were me, I would question that dynamic and wonder if this is a bad sign. I would think long and hard about what that meant and long and hard about what I might be able to do to avoid getting sucked into such a dynamic if I wanted to pursue the relationship. It's still early and presumably no new pattern has been set in stone yet. If at all possible, I would try to make sure "money for sex" behaviors don't become a pattern and that he understands that I value his friendship, companionship, and the trust and intimacy we have established far more than money and that if I slept with him it would be because of trust, intimacy, and feelings, not because he spent money on me.

At the risk of being a buzzkill, my first thought is that someone who insists on paying for stuff for you before kissing you is someone who fundamentally believes sex is bought. Maybe he is just trying to take care of you/be generous, but that whole "money for sex" dynamic is a big part of why I am not interested in dating per se. I think going along with such a dynamic is tantamount to accepting a second class citizen status in the relationship.

I wasn't there. Maybe that's not it all. But if it were me, I would question that dynamic and wonder if this is a bad sign. I would think long and hard about what that meant and long and hard about what I might be able to do to avoid getting sucked into such a dynamic if I wanted to pursue the relationship. It's still early and presumably no new pattern has been set in stone yet. If at all possible, I would try to make sure "money for sex" behaviors don't become a pattern and that he understands that I value his friendship, companionship, and the trust and intimacy we have established far more than money and that if I slept with him it would be because of trust, intimacy, and feelings, not because he spent money on me.

I think MZ that it is probably harmless and he is just trying to be a good friend.

"Have you ever wondered if there was more to life, other than being really, really, ridiculously good looking?" Zoolander

I think MZ that it is probably harmless and he is just trying to be a good friend.

As I said, I wasn't there. So I can't really tell. But the idea that men pay for stuff and then women put out is rampant in American culture. And it's dehumanizing towards both men and women. I think that is part of why our divorce rate is around 50%. I don't see it so bad with foreign men. But American men are very prone to treating a relationship like a commodity without realizing it. I think it is better for both of us when I remain aware of that slippery slope and try to avoid it.

As I said, I wasn't there. So I can't really tell. But the idea that men pay for stuff and then women put out is rampant in American culture. And it's dehumanizing towards both men and women. I think that is part of why our divorce rate is around 50%. I don't see it so bad with foreign men. But American men are very prone to treating a relationship like a commodity without realizing it. I think it is better for both of us when I remain aware of that slippery slope and try to avoid it.

Maybe him mom just taught him to be polite and pay? I know, sometimes it seems archaic and I always still try to pay for myself, even married, but some guys were just raised that way. Seems to me that they have to have a huge ego/are delusional if they can think that drinks or a meal = sex.

Maybe him mom just taught him to be polite and pay? I know, sometimes it seems archaic and I always still try to pay for myself, even married, but some guys were just raised that way. Seems to me that they have to have a huge ego/are delusional if they can think that drinks or a meal = sex.

A couple of male friends pay for my meals occasionally, but none have asked me for sex in return.

A couple of male friends pay for my meals occasionally, but none have asked me for sex in return.

If they aren't expecting sex in return, great. But if they have never paid before and suddenly pay and then kiss you, I would wonder if they make that association. They may not realize it consciously. It's rampant in the culture -- that means a lot of people do it and many do it just because "that's the way things are done", without really thinking about the implications. But it's a slippery slope I don't want to go down. And it doesn't matter to me if we start down that slope innocently or not. It leads to much the same outcomes -- which can be especially frustrating if it's a very nice guy who means well and doesn't even see how problematic his unquestioned assumptions are.

That doesn't mean there is a problem with a man paying for a meal or drinks per se. But given the description offered, it sounds to me like he never paid before. Suddenly he pays and also kisses her, two things he has apparently not done before. And the combination of things makes me wonder what it signifies. If he had paid on previous occasions when they were going out just as friends without kissing her, then I wouldn't necessarily think anything of it. But that's not what the description sounds like. The description sounds like he didn't pay for her drinks/meal (whatever) when they went out just as friends then suddenly paid when his idea of what he wanted from the relationship was probably redefined in his mind.

Went out with a guy friend this weekend. We are both going through divorces now, although his is a thousand times more ugly, in court fighting for custody and all that. He use to be really good friends with my brother, and him and I have been emailing each other lately to vent about divorce stuff and talk about our kids, mostly. I agreed to meet him at a bar to listen to his co-worker's blues band. It was awkward to bring up, but before I went there I established that we were only gonna be hanging out as friends. But when I got there and got out my wallet the girl at the door informed me that he had already paid for my cover. Then he insisted on buying my drinks (I mostly just drank water). Later we went to a pool hall, and I really wanted to at least pay for a few pool games, but he beat me to it.

I didn't spend a dime, and I feel really awful about it. It is even more weird, cause I don't know if he remembers it, but many years ago he was drunk and sort of confessed to me that he's always wanted to ask me out but didn't know if he should since he's my brother's friend.

I was very gracious, thanking him for paying for stuff. And he never tried to put any moves on me whatsoever. But, I feel like avoiding him now, for fear that I'm somehow leading him on. Maybe I'm over-analyzing it.

Went out with a guy friend this weekend. We are both going through divorces now...he had already paid for my cover. Then he insisted on buying my drinks (I mostly just drank water). Later we went to a pool hall, and I really wanted to at least pay for a few pool games, but he beat me to it.

I didn't spend a dime, and I feel really awful about it. ...many years ago he was drunk and sort of confessed to me that he's always wanted to ask me out but didn't know if he should since he's my brother's friend.
...I feel like avoiding him now, for fear that I'm somehow leading him on. Maybe I'm over-analyzing it.

Both y'all are still married. Don't fret over it. Stay away from expensive restaurants (or if you go, talk to the server beforehand so that you get your own check).

I was very gracious, thanking him for paying for stuff. And he never tried to put any moves on me whatsoever. But, I feel like avoiding him now, for fear that I'm somehow leading him on. Maybe I'm over-analyzing it.

When I was in the "newly single" stage and being chatted up by men for the first time in many years, I found that some men were extremely understanding if I just asked questions point blank about the situation between us and told them bluntly that I was kind of lost, didn't know what to think, was still trying to get my bearings, etc. Some men said one thing and did another. But some men were just very nice about it if I confessed that I couldn't figure out what was going on and needed some help and forebearance. It saved me a lot of awkward moments and guess work.

I think MZ that it is probably harmless and he is just trying to be a good friend.

Yah, I really think that's all it is, just a good friend, great person. Him and I have chatted a few times since then, and all is back to normal. Though in the past I've asked him to hang out (as friends) and now I would feel weird doing so. So, we'll see....

The part I hate about dating is the unknown. For me, I know that I have no agenda, or expectations but I hate not knowing what the heck their intentions are. I'm not good with letting things ride, and I usually throw my cards on the table. I'm not saying intentions like dating, serious relationship, marriage, etc. but if someone just wants to hook up, just say that. Not that I will participate, but if thats all your looking for, fine, just own up to it.

Long story, sorry......but this thread is perfect for overthinkers like me I met a guy St. Pattys day night, and my friend basically initiated him getting my number. Great... but anyway, he took it, and then right then called my phone, saying, "here, so this way you have my number too". And then he texted later on saying it was nice talking to me. The past four weeks he's sent random texts every four or so days, usually each one saying we should get together some time for dinner/drinks. But he's never actually asked for a specific time?! Granted, he's been out of town every weekend since meeting. I called last week, left a message. He called back a few days later, left a message. Other than that, we've only ever texted. Anyway, last Thur I was going up to where he lives to a bar and texted him that I was going, and he said 'ok, now I want to go to so we can hang out'. He did, we hung out with a group, but he stuck by me most of the night, and at the end he made a comment about hanging out again. Sent me a text a few nights ago, and again yesterday. Asked for my email, and then sent me an email that said "thought I would drop you a line so you would have my e-mail if you ever wanted to use it." (RANDOM!) So we've emailed a few times just short stuff since yesterday.

A mutual friend told my friend (that initiated things) that he is a super nice guy and would do anything for anyone and that he is single. I'm trying to not over-analyze (I do it too cch) and just chill out, but geez. It makes me think that he's not sure if he's interested or dating someone and trying to string me along or whatever. To me, it seems simple..... if you are interested, CALL them, ask them out, whatever? I don't know....

cch I wouldn't worry about leading him on... you made it clear that you guys were just going as friends. You are both going through tough times right now, and so as long as your intentions (see, they *are* important, ha!) are clear from both ends than you shouldn't worry, or feel like you have to avoid him. As with my situation, him paying is likely just a friendly thing to do. As long as he doesn't start making any comments indicating his feelings are anything other than friendly, I think you should continue the friendship and not worry about it. During times like this, appreciate all the friendships and support you have

Just throwing in a couple pennies SWP
You said he's been out of town the last several weekends and he'll return calls after a couple days. It sounds like he might have a very busy work schedule. He may want to keep things overly causal right now unitl work calms down or until he can devot some quality time with you. In other words, he might be too busy to spend the time he thinks he might need to spend to give you the attention he thinks you deserve.

I don't know, keep it casual right now and if you want it to go farther, you let him know and make a move - invite him to the Chevelle concert.

"Whatever beer I'm drinking, is better than the one I'm not." DMLW
"Budweiser sells a product they reflectively insist on calling beer." John Oliver

Have a first date tomorrow night. If the txts and phonecalls are any indication it will be great. It is someone I know from school, who I've had my eye on for awhile, but never had the opportunity to ask her out before.

Too lazy to beat myself up for being to lazy to beat myself up for being too lazy to... well you get the point....

Have a first date tomorrow night. If the txts and phonecalls are any indication it will be great. It is someone I know from school, who I've had my eye on for awhile, but never had the opportunity to ask her out before.

YEAH!! Have fun and make sure to report in to those of us that live vicariously through others, ha!

“As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
Jean-Jacques Rousseau