Ron Paul A Distaster For The USA. Hes Always Wrong. Why Is There So Much Love For Him ? Wrong Paul

Originally posted by gorgiRon Paul has been constantly wrong on most stuff relating to the economy. His ideas of what he wants to do to the country will destroy it.

The federal reserve is what keeps the US government going. We need a strong independent federal reserve. Studies have shown that the more independent
that are the lower the inflation rate is. He keeps calling the Fed wrong or that Bernanke doesnt know what hes doing but thats just plain wrong. He
also wants to bring back the gold standard but thats another failure too.

Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs
of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the
deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you
go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves.

At this point you cant just end the central banks world wide with a hard cut, it would drag the world wide economy into oblivion, but at least you can
begin a transition. There have been no recessions or bust, that have been not engineered by the big banks, starting with the crash of 1919 on to 1929
to force America to take the federal reserve in 1933.

Think about it, every citizen in America owes to the central bank 70k from birth which will be collected through the IRS. Its the same in most
countries by now.

Do you know where national debt comes from? It comes from the economy growing. If the economy grows, you need to increase the moneysupply, else you
get hyperdeflation as there are more and more goods and less and less money, the only exception being countries with a strong export, like Germany or
Japan, which DO have national debt, just somewhat less due to a strong export.

Should an economic system be in place, where money is issued by a central bank, to be collected by said central bank plus interest, so that an elite
gets trillions of free money? I say no. Money should be issued by the goverment. If you have a class of people that gets free money and a class of
people that has to work for money, then those who print themselves money are the slavemasters of those who have to earn it.

Not a single POTUS in my lifetime has implemented all the change that they would like. Ron Paul would not ruin this country any more than Obama has.
If you think the President has the power to completely sweep out the status quo in a four year term, then you must be very disappointed in the lack of
CHANGE we have seen since Obama took office.

It took time for our government to get so fat and it will take time to slim it down. Otherwise, it would be as unhealthy as being fat. It's just like
people. Ron Paul knows this. He understands the process of government. He has been introducing and supporting sensible and CONSTITUTIONAL legislation
for 22 years.

This is a problem I see when every election comes up. People think the President will actually accomplish EVERYTHING they set out to do IMMEDIATELY,
when most rarely accomplish any of their larger campaign promises. You have nothing to fear in Ron Paul. We need to at least start looking at the the
problems he points out on Liberty and Free market. He makes sense. If he is elected, and we start steering the nation back on the course of liberty,
it will still take 50 years or more to have a free country. It is sad that Libertarianism has such a small voice in government, when it really is what
America is supposed to be.

He is actually RIGHT on all the issues, according to The Constitution of the United States.

I'm not going to address the OP. I made that decision right after I read where he said "TARP is good".

But I will say that RP will never get elected POTUS in the US. During the debate on Thursday, he said he was in favor of legalizing heroin. That will
never, ever fly with the American people. That single issue will ensure he never becomes POTUS.

Ron Paul is one of the few politicians who I have heard use the term Constitutional Republic, which is what America is/was. Honestly I cringe when I
hear politicians refer to America as a democracy. Where is democracy ever written into law in our country? Nowhere, and due to rhetoric most people do
not know the difference between a Constitutional Republic where the Representatives are democratically elected and a Democracy. Regardless, I am not
going to espouse here, though it is so simple it involves a paradigm shift for most people to comprehend it.

Constitutionalists are those who understand what a Constitutional Republic is will and will vote for Ron Paul unless another constitutionalist runs
against him, like Dennis Kucinich who would have my vote, otherwise I love Ron. Kinda comes down to if we want a constitutional government. God, I
love the Constitution, in my opinion that document was so well thought out and so well written we will use it in our future, the whole world wants
such a document. I can not express enough how much I love it, in my eyes it is perfect. All we need is it upheld. We are talking about peace and
prosperity and what America is meant to be. This is our great instrument.

Originally posted by beezzer
Your whole argument rests on the premise that bigger government is good

Is bigger government justified under a state level? If Texas was to criminalize any woman who carried out an abortion for whatever reason, if they
were to outright ban gay marriage and reinforce the religious institution of marriage in place, or if they were to establish their own racial
segregation laws within their borders, would this be fine for you?

Barry Goldwater, one of the earlier Libertarians. He supported states rights:

He supported the right of states to employ racial segregation within their own boundaries. Had he been voted in, states like Texas would have still
held the right to strip american citizens of participating and marrying whom they want on the basis of race.

Libertarianism showed it's true colours in the 60's and even before, its just a front. True libertarianism in my opinion is yet to be seen.

I must admit that it feels really good to be on the other side of the political derision for once; and it is all because of Ron Paul. Even five years
ago there would have been a lot more people siding with the OP against Paul. Not anymore. Ron Paul is the genuine article. He is as close to a Thomas
Jefferson as we are likely to see in this day and age. Good people recognize that and they take heart in the message of liberty. I feel fortunate to
be a part of it.

Now, to the OP - Gorgi -- I don't want to pile on. At this point it just doesn't seem fair. I would just like to ask you a question. Who is your
pick for President?

Originally posted by macman
Not necessarily legalize those things, but place the responsibility back to the State level.

Exactly, he wants to limit fascism and control to states like Texas because apparently it's only bad when the federal government does it.

Well, yeah. That's true. It's only bad when a centralized government does it to a nation as large and diverse as ours. I think there should be
states where abortion is illegal and gay marriage is not allowed just as there should be states where all of that and more are allowed. Let them, on
a local level, decide what is best for their culture and communities. An umbrella set of laws do not work for everybody. Personally, I'd be stoked
because I love my state and understand what sort of policies we would have if allowed.

Get rid of the DOE? Yes, It should be the states job to run their schools not the federal gov.

IRS ? Yep again. It's unconstitutional and was never supposed to be a permanent deal.

DHS? What have they done except infringe on our freedoms? Seal the border - END OF PROBLEM !

FEMA? States have National Guard that can help out in emergencies, how much did FEMA help New Orleans?

The federal Reserve ?!?!?!?! Are you kidding?!?!?! OMG! Do some research. Their the ones killing this country.

"He wants to get rid of the income tax and fun the government through tariffs" This country ran fine for over 100 years running like that till the
federal government got so damn big it needed more income to feed the machine..

Ron Paul knows more about the economy that the entire administration that's in there now does. If there was anyone who could fix this country it's
him.

Was your post supposed to be sarcastic or what?

If this is a serious post then our liberal education system did you up good. You learned very well what they wanted you to.

Is bigger government justified under a state level? If Texas was to criminalize any woman who carried out an abortion for whatever reason, if they
were to outright ban gay marriage and reinforce the religious institution of marriage in place, or if they were to establish their own racial
segregation laws within their borders, would this be fine for you?

Yep. It would be a democracy. If you don't like it, move. Simple. It's easier than moving out of the country which is what you have to do now
for policy change.

Sorry I didnt get my sources form "conspiriacies are us". The federal reserve is not a private bank. I like ATS. I need the luck considering most
eople here dont like ideas that disagree with them. Theres no denying what I wrote.

You are the uneducated one. You have no idea how the Fed works do you?

Gordi the stock of the Federal Reserve is OWNED by the private banks. It is a hybrid and was intentionally made that way to fool the American people
in MO.

McFadden was a banker himself and this is what he had to say about the FED. I suggest you read it.

"Mr. Chairman, we have in this Country one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board and
the Federal Reserve Banks, hereinafter called the Fed. The Fed has cheated the Government of these United States and the people of the United States
out of enough money to pay the Nation's debt. The depredations and iniquities of the Fed has cost enough money to pay the National debt several times
over.

"This evil institution has impoverished and ruined the people of these United States, has bankrupted itself, and has practically bankrupted our
Government. It has done this through the defects of the law under which it operates, through the maladministration of that law by the Fed and through
the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it.

"Some people who think that the Federal Reserve Banks United States Government institutions. They are private monopolies which prey upon the people
of these United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign customers; foreign and domestic speculators and swindlers; and rich and
predatory money lender. In that dark crew of financial pirates there are those who would cut a man's throat to get a dollar out of his pocket; there
are those who send money into states to buy votes to control our legislatures; there are those who maintain International propaganda for the purpose
of deceiving us into granting of new concessions which will permit them to cover up their past misdeeds and set again in motion their gigantic train
of crime.

"These twelve private credit monopolies were deceitfully and disloyally foisted upon this Country by the bankers who came here from Europe and repaid
us our hospitality by undermining our American institutions. Those bankers took money out of this Country to finance Japan in a war against Russia.
They created a reign of terror in Russia with our money in order to help that war along. They instigated the separate peace between Germany and
Russia, and thus drove a wedge between the allies in World War. They financed Trotsky's passage from New York to Russia so that he might assist in
the destruction of the Russian Empire. They fomented and instigated the Russian Revolution, and placed a large fund of American dollars at Trotsky's
disposal in one of their branch banks in Sweden so that through him Russian homes might be thoroughly broken up and Russian children flung far and
wide from their natural protectors. They have since begun breaking up of American homes and the dispersal of American children....

"The danger that the Country was warned against came upon us and is shown in the long train of horrors attendant upon the affairs of the traitorous
and dishonest Fed. Look around you when you leave this Chamber and you will see evidences of it in all sides. This is an era of misery and for the
conditions that caused that misery, the Fed are fully liable. This is an era of financed crime and in the financing of crime the Fed does not play
the part of a disinterested spectator.

"It has been said that the draughts man who was employed to write the text of the Aldrich bill because that had been drawn up by lawyers, by
acceptance bankers of European origin in New York. It was a copy, in general a translation of the statues of the Reichsbank and other European central
banks. One-half million dollars was spent on the part of the propaganda organized by these bankers for the purpose of misleading public opinion and
giving Congress the impression that there was an overwhelming popular demand for it and the kind of currency that goes with it, namely, an asset
currency based on human debts and obligations. Dr. H. Parker Willis had been employed by Wall Street and propagandists, and when the Aldrich measure
failed- he obtained employment with Carter Glass, to assist in drawing the banking bill for the Wilson administration. He appropriated the text of the
Aldrich bill. There is no secret about it. The test of the Federal Reserve Act was tainted from the first....

"A few days before the bill came to a vote, Senator Henry Cabot Lodge, of Massachusetts, wrote to Senator John W. Weeks as follows:

New York City,
December 17, 1913
"'My Dear Senator Weeks:

"'Throughout my public life I have supported all measures designed to take the Government out of the banking business. This bill puts the Government
into the banking business as never before in our history. "'The powers vested in the Federal Reserve Board seen to me highly dangerous especially
where there is political control of the Board. I should be sorry to hold stock in a bank subject to such dominations. The bill as it stands seems to
me to open the way to a vast inflation of the currency. "'I had hoped to support this bill, but I cannot vote for it cause it seems to me to contain
features and to rest upon principles in the highest degree menacing to our prosperity, to stability in business, and to the general welfare of the
people of the United States.
Very Truly Yours,
Henry Cabot Lodge.'"

"In eighteen years that have passed since Senator Lodge wrote that letter of warning all of his predictions have come true. The Government is in the
banking business as never before. Against its will it has been made the backer of horse thieves and card sharps, bootlegger's smugglers, speculators,
and swindlers in all parts of the world. Through the Fed the riffraff of every country is operating on the public credit of the United States
Government.

"In 1913, before the Senate Banking and Currency Committee, Mr. Alexander Lassen made the following statement: "The whole scheme of the Fed with its
commercial paper is an impractical, cumbersome machinery- is simply a cover to secure the privilege of issuing money, and to evade payment of as much
tax upon circulation as possible and then control the issue and maintain, instead of reducing interest rates. It will prove to the advantage of the
few and the detriment of the people. It will mean continued shortage of actual money and further extension of credits, for when there is a shortage of
money people have to borrow to their cost.' "A few days before the Fed passed, Senator Root denounced the Fed as an outrage on our liberties. He
predicted: 'Long before we wake up from our dream of prosperity through an inflated currency, our gold- which alone could have kept us from
catastrophe- will have vanished and no rate of interest will tempt it to return.'

"If ever a prophecy came true, that one did.

"The Fed became law the day before Christmas Eve, in the year 1913, and shortly afterwards, the German International bankers, Kuhn, Loeb and Co. sent
one of their partners here to run it.

"The Fed Note is essentially unsound. It is the worst currency and the most dangerous that this Country has ever known. When the proponents of the
act saw that the Democratic doctrine would not permit them to let the proposed banks issue the new currency as bank notes, they should have stopped at
that. They should not have foisted that kind of currency, namely, an asset currency, on the United States Government. They should not have made the
Government [liable on the private] debts of individuals and corporations, and, least of all, on the private debts of foreigners....

"Mr. Chairman, there is nothing like the Fed pool of confiscated bank deposits in the world. It is a public trough of American wealth in which the
foreigners claim rights, equal to or greater than Americans. The Fed are the agents of the foreign central banks. They use our bank depositors' money
for the benefit of their foreign principals. They barter the public credit of the United States Government and hire it our to foreigners at a profit
to themselves.

"All this is done at the expense of the United States Government, and at a sickening loss to the American people. Only our great wealth enabled us to
stand the drain of it as long as we did....

What does these United States owe foreigners? When and by whom was the debt incurred? It was incurred by the Fed, when they peddled the signature of
the Government to foreigners- for a Price. It is what the United States Government has to pay to redeem the obligations of the Fed....

"It will take twenty years to redeem our Government. Twenty years of penal servitude to pay off the gambling debts of the traitorous Fed and to vast
flood of American wages and savings, bank deposits, and the United States Government credit which the Fed exported out of this country to their
foreign principals.

"The Fed lately conducted an anti-hoarding campaign here. They they took that extra money which they had persuaded the American people to put into
the banks- they sent it to Europe- along with the rest. In the last several months, they have sent $1,300,000,000 in gold to their foreign employers,
their foreign masters, and every dollar of that gold belonged to the people of these United States and was unlawfully taken from them....

"Mr. Chairman, when the Fed was passed, the people of these United States did not perceive that a world system was being set up here which would make
the savings of the American school teacher available to a narcotic-drug vendor in Acapulco. They did not perceive that these United States was to be
lowered to the position of a coolie country which has nothing but raw material and heart, that Russia was destined to supply the man power and that
this country was to supply the financial power to an "international superstate". A superstate controlled by international bankers, and international
industrialists acting together to enslave the world for their own pleasure?

"The people of these United States are being greatly wronged. They have been driven from their employments. They have been dispossessed from their
homes. They have been evicted from their rented quarters. They have lost their children. They have been left to suffer and die for lack of shelter,
food, clothing and medicine.

"The wealth of these United States and the working capital have been taken away from them and has either been locked in the vaults of certain banks
and the great corporations or exported to foreign countries for the benefit of the foreign customers of these banks and corporations. So far as the
people of the United States are concerned, the cupboard is bare.

"It is true that the warehouses and coal yards and grain elevators are full, but these are padlocked, and the great banks and corporations hold the
keys.

"The sack of these United States by the Fed is the greatest crime in history.

The FED is GREED and EVIL personified and there is no way you will ever convenience any one who has looked into fractional reserve banking (today
ZERO RESERVE banking) and
Mises's sound money that it is anything but out right FRAUD!

Originally posted by Cuervo
Well, yeah. That's true. It's only bad when a centralized government does it to a nation as large and diverse as ours.

Thankyou for your honesty. Instead of experiencing fascism under the government, I should experience under my own state. Wonderful, if only Paulers
would be more so upfront about it as you are.

I made a good reference to Barry Goldwater, one of the older libertarians of our time. You agree with his stance, right on the rights of states and
segregation right?

I don't understand why you are so convinced they would end up like that. If you think that, blame the voters there, not the sovereignty. I imagine
my state would have extensive planned parenthood systems, legalize drugs, public option health care, socialized university, and an open immigration
law. And I would love that. Just because some backwoods folks wanna live under their Christian version of Sharia law, doesn't mean that will happen
in every state. Like I said, moving to a state you actually agree with wouldn't be that hard.

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