Well at least we now know what you think of every single republican. Actually we knew that before, this just reinforces it.

Okay, if we're going to play that game, I should've also pointed out that the representation of what I was saying about Republicans was wrong. However, I didn't really feel the need to do that as most of this conversation has been about Democrats and democratic motivations.

There are quite a few Republicans who have pledged to do brave things during this debate. Peter King of New York, for example. So far, most of this has only been talk. These Republicans who have said they would vote for a clean CR haven't crossed over to vote with Democrats on procedural votes they could force a vote on a clean CR. But they deserve credit for standing up to the tea party. I hope they get a chance to vote on a clean CR.

I don't consider John Boehner to be a devil in any of this, either. I feel sorry for the speaker. This is clearly not how he hoped he speakership would go. He doesn't have any way to control the tea party, and it seems to be ruining his tenure in the job. I don't believe he will allow us to go through the debt ceiling. I think he is stronger than that. At least, I hope so.

Hey brettmcd, you won't win any arguments by picking and choosing which ones to reply to. Did my latest reply to your conspiracy theories make too much sense for you? Did you realize that you were walking on thin ice?

I don't consider John Boehner to be a devil in any of this, either. I feel sorry for the speaker. This is clearly not how he hoped he speakership would go. He doesn't have any way to control the tea party, and it seems to be ruining his tenure in the job.

If this were October 2011, I'd be agreeing with you. I firmly believe that if you or I had the opportunity to speak to John Boehner one-on-one, we would find him to be a solemn and intelligent man who is acutely aware of the havoc his party is wreaking upon the party and extremely frustrated by his ability to stop it.

But it's 2013 now. Boehner sought and won reelection as Speaker of the House with a full understanding of what his job would entail. I still agree with you that he is no devil, but at the same time, there's is precious little evidence that he's doing much to improve the situation. How much pity does a man deserve when he willingly throws himself back to the crucible and stubbornly refuses to help notch down the heat?

Boehner has it within his power to end this shutdown today by allowing a clean CR to come to the floor for a vote. He could even give a speech about no longer standing idly by while a small minority of gerrymandered lunatics is allowed to hobble the global economy, and it would make him a goddamn national hero. Would it also end his tenure as Speaker? Maybe. I suspect a lot of Republicans are feeling increasingly desperate for someone to stand up and restore sanity to their party, so he might fare better than we think.

But even if he lost his position, it isn't like he's been getting much use out of it.

Long answer: In the United States House of Representatives, the Speaker decides the agenda. There are some procedural mechanisms the caucuses can use to conduct a formal vote without the Speaker's say-so (a discharge petition, for example), but as a general rule, if the Speaker of the House chooses not to bring a bill up for a vote, it doesn't get a vote.

The House requires 217 affirmative votes to pass a bill. The 200 Democratic representatives are, by all accounts, ready to vote unanimously for a clean CR. Add in the two-dozen House Republicans who have publicly claimed they're willing to join them, and that's a successful bill. You can find a list of the 24 Republicans right here, complete with links to each of their public declarations.

Are those Republicans lying to make themselves appear more moderate and reasonable than they actually are? Maybe, but we don't know because Speaker Boehner won't allow the vote. He's the logjam that ensures no one in his caucus ever has to own up to their promises.

Finally, you'll see people refer to the "Hastert Rule," which holds that the Speaker will never bring a bill up for a vote unless a majority of the dominant party is expected to support it. As Canuck has pointed out, though, this is a purely informal practice employed by House Speakers to pretend they have no discretion in how they set the agenda. That included Democrat Nancy Pelosi during her tenure as Speaker, by the way -- an example of something that both sides *actually* do.

What a politician does that is best for them getting reelected is many times NOT what is best for the country, its not the same for the most part at a regular job.

Many Democrats have cast votes in the last two weeks that will be difficult to explain to voters, but which were the right thing to do. Not every member of Congress cravenly seeks reelection over all else.

Yes. Yes. Democrats are benevolent angels that only cast votes in the best interest of the 'Murican people. Republicans are evil greedy devils that cast votes in their own selfish personal interests.

pssst....congress consists of both the house and the senate. thought you might have forgotten in the heat of the moment.

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Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

What a politician does that is best for them getting reelected is many times NOT what is best for the country, its not the same for the most part at a regular job.

Many Democrats have cast votes in the last two weeks that will be difficult to explain to voters, but which were the right thing to do. Not every member of Congress cravenly seeks reelection over all else.

Yes. Yes. Democrats are benevolent angels that only cast votes in the best interest of the 'Murican people.

I never said anything so sweeping about all Democrats. I never even implied it. If you can't respond to what I actually say, that's your problem.

don't take it personally. msduncan is just upset because even the Gallup polls are starting to tell him things he doesn't want to hear.

Something to keep in mind as we head into a new week of Equal Blame false equivalencies:

This weekend, senate Republicans filibustered a clean CR bill to prevent it from coming up for a vote. For clarity, that means the Democratic majority wanted to end the government shutdown right now and had the votes to pass that bill in the senate, but the Republicans blocked anyone from voting at all.

Then Republican Senator Suzanne Collins from Maine formally proposed a "moderate compromise." If Democrats were willing to lock in Sequestration spending for another six months and delay the ACA's medical device tax for two years, Republicans would stop sabotaging the economy by raising the Debt Ceiling...for three whole months.

Quote from: hepcat on October 05, 2013, 12:01:01 AM

Remember a little thing called sequestration?

Yes. In July of this year, the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that if Sequestration were reversed by August, it would result in an additional 900,000 jobs being added to the economy by the end of 2014. That's not the result of doing anything new, mind you -- that's simply undoing the Sequester cuts forced upon the country by the Republicans the last time they decided to take the economy hostage by threatening to breach the Debt Ceiling.

So that's "compromise." Democrats agree to Republican demands, and Republicans agree to wait three months before making additional demands.

Boehner’s closest friends in the Senate, including Graham and Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-Ga.), pleaded with him Friday to modify his legislation along the lines of what they were trying to broker across the Capitol. The speaker told them Saturday that the Collins plan would face opposition from too many Republicans for him to put it on the floor, Chambliss said.

“We don’t support it,” House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told reporters, saying that the reasons for opposition were “too many to go into.”

By the way, the 2% tax on medical devices is one of the ways in which the ACA pays for itself and reduces the deficit.

Mark my words: if Republicans ever do manage to push that through, watch for them to *immediately* start screaming about how "ObamaCare will cost BILLIONS MORE than they originally promised!!1! "

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim. I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

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Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim. I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

I until fairly recently worked with people that believe that. Frustrating experience and why I almost never talk politics anymore. I might be late to realizing this, but it only really just dawned on me that people will believe anything they read on the internet. It doesn't matter how intelligent, rich, etc they are, if they see it on the internet, it's true, especially if it supports what they want to believe. I can't even get on Facebook anymore because of it. Some really nice people, but when it comes to politics, incredibly hateful people.

To be fair, a friend of a friend facebook friended me a while ago, and he's the extremist liberal version of what you speak about. Every lie about a republican politician or platform is readily believed and regurgitated (with the appropriate vitriol) as soon as he hears/reads/thinks it. So it's not just a repub or even conservative problem...it's just a moron issue.

« Last Edit: October 14, 2013, 07:28:18 PM by hepcat »

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Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

To be fair, a friend of a friend facebook friended me a while ago, and he's the extremist liberal version of what you speak about. Every lie about a republican politician or platform is readily believed and regurgitated (with the appropriate vitriol) as soon as he hears/reads/thinks it. So it's not just a repub or even conservative problem...it's just a moron issue.

We talked about this - stop spreading lies about me.

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"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim. I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

I wouldn't mind them living in their own reality if it didn't keep bleeding into our universe. Seal the rift!

After reading the article associated with the protest, I was surprised to discover that some folks still believe Obama is a Muslim. I was surprised because I naturally assumed anyone that stupid would have died long ago doing even the simplest of household chores.

well he never produced a publicly accepted birth certificate

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Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

heh. if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

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A Pew Research Center poll found nearly half of Americans hold the false belief that TARP was passed under President Obama, while only 34 percent know it originated under Bush."Oh yeah?" Bush replied. "50% of the people were wrong."

heh. if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

good point. of course it could be Mekaneck.

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Because I can,also because I don't care what you want.XBL: OriginalCeeKayWii U: CeeKay

heh. if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.

good point. of course it could be Mekaneck.

Bravo, Sir, for the He-Man reference.

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"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

heh. if you look closely, the guy in front of her wearing a dark blue cap is wearing a white coat that is blending in with her pasty white skin.

Um, if that blue cap guy belongs to the white coat body and hands then he has a seriously elongated neck. I think there is a short senior citizen lady with white hair (you can see it poking out of the forehead of the girl with backpack) wearing a white sweater holding her hand up.