I will begin by thanking my opponent for the debate and the viewers for their time. I am especially thankful for this particular resolution, as I have long wanted to debate this topic.

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I will now define the location of the battle and the states of the characters, as my opponent has not done so.

The battle takes place on a beach of infinite length and 20 meters in width, with an infinite forest bordering it on one side and an infinite ocean bordering it on the other. The weather is sunny, with no clouds in the sky. The tide is low. There is no wildlife present excepting those created and/or summoned through the use of jutsu. The fighters are situated 15 meters away from each other, with the ocean to one side and the beach to their other. Itachi has the forest to his left and the ocean to his right; Nagato has the opposite location. Nagato himself and his bodies are arranged in a straight line perpendicular to Itachi. Nagato is not concealed.

Uchiha Itachi is in his chronological state as described in the cited debate. [1]

Nagato is in his chronological state immediately preceding the attack on Konohagakure, with all six Pain bodies intact.

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I will now respond to my opponent's statement.

For starters, my opponent has not cited the time in the manga when this supposed conversation occurred. Regardless, even if this statement was made by Madara, Madara has no way of actually being certain of its accuracy, as Itachi never displayed his full strength throughout the series [2]; consequentially, any statement from Madara on the subject is conjecture at best. While the Rinnegan is very powerful, it affords the user no enhanced speed, mimicry, or predictive abilities [3], powers the Sharingan does grant the user [4]. I will later show how these abilities allow Itachi to defeat Pain.

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I will now present my own argument.

ARG1: Itachi's great speed combined with his Sharingan's abilities would allow him to avoid damage from Pain and enact strategies too quickly for Pain to counter.

First, I must explain Itachi's speed. While Itachi's speed is only ranked as 5/5 in the third databook [5], I showed in the cited debate [1] that Itachi's speed actually merits a ranking of 9/5, if not more. Viewers and my opponent can find my reasoning for this statement in the cited debate. Kakashi displayed speed roughly on par with Pain during the Invasion of Pain[6]. Kakashi's speed is only 4.5, meaning Pain's speed is roughly 4.5-5, or perhaps 5.5. I have shown Itachi to merit a speed ranking of at least 9, meaning his speed far exceeds Pain's speed. Itachi's great speed will allow him to easily evade Pain's attacks. The Sharingan allows Itachi to predict Nagato's attacks [4], which, combined with Itachi's speed, will allow him to avoid all of Pain's attacks and counter them. The Sharingan also allows Itachi to see chakra, meaning he will easily be able to deduce the nature of the Six Paths of Pain technique [7] and counter it. Uzumaki Naruto did the same with Sage Mode and one of Pain's chakra receptors [8], and, as I proved in the cited debate [1], Itachi's intellect dwarfs Naruto's. Consequentially, Itachi will easily be able to deduce the workings of Six Paths of Pain and counter the jutsu. One possible strategy Itachi could use is to, at the battle's outset, use his Katon: Gouenkyuu technique [9]. Itachi could angle the blast so that it hits the forest 10 meters to Pain's right, preventing Pain from blocking the attack while still detonating the massive attack. Itachi's speed would allow him to weave the seals and fire the technique before Pain has a chance to initiate any tactics. The massive scale of this technique and the size of the blast it creates would give Itachi time to create two shadow clones. The clones cannot be distinguished from the original [10], and the size of the Gouenkyuu would prevent Nagato from seeing which is the original Itachi and which are the clones. Itachi could create the clones such that they are both on one side of him to prevent Pain from deducing which clone is the original by location. Itachi and his clones could rush Pain in the wake of the Gouenkyuu blast, while Nagato is recovering from the size of the blast. Itachi or one of his clones could fire off a burst of Hosenka fireballs with shuriken hidden within them [11] to test Pain's defenses as Itachi approaches. This would allow Itachi to see Preta Path use Fujutsu Kyuin [12], thus informing him of the technique. Furthermore, this would likely injure Preta Path, as Fujutsu Kyuin would only absorb the fireballs, not the shuriken inside. If Pain were to deflect the shuriken with Shinra Tensei, Itachi would then have five seconds to attack unhindered by Shinra Tensei [13]. By the time this occurs, Itachi has already crossed so much of the distance between the fighters that the remaining distance can be crossed unhindered. As Itachi approaches, at least one of the Pain bodies will be watching each clone. This allows Itachi and his clones to activate Ephemeral [14] or some other motion-activated Genjutsu. Pain would have no way to avoid being placed under the illusion, as he does not know of this technique of Itachi's and would naturally be looking at Itachi and his clones as they approach. Thus, at least one Pain body would witness the motion that activates the illusion. Since the Pain bodies are all controlled by one mind [7], by successfully activating a Genjutsu, Itachi immobilizes all of the bodies. While the bodies are occupied by the Genjutsu, Itachi could send his clones to use Bunshin Bakuha [15] on the Pain bodies while he hits Nagato himself with Pupil Technique: Destiny Threat [16]. This attack would occur too quickly for Pain to counter due to Itachi's great speed. Nagato is killed by the Amaterasu flames of Destiny Threat and the bodies are destroyed by the exploding clones.

To summarize the attack plan: Itachi begins by using Gouenkyuu on the edge of the nearby forest to prevent the attack from being intercepted and to ensure detonation. As the blast goes off, distracting Pain, Itachi creates two clones, arranging them so that it is not clear who the original is. As Nagato recovers from the blast, Itachi and clones rush Pain with their great speed, firing off Housenka fireballs with shuriken hidden within to test Pain's defenses. As Pain counters, Itachi closes the distance, and he and his clones activate motion-based Genjutsu to immobilize Pain. While Pain is immobilized, Itachi uses Destiny Threat to kill Nagato while the clones use Bunshin Bakuha to destroy the Pain bodies.

In summary, Itachi's great speed allows him to enact strategies such as the one described above without Nagato ever having a chance to counter, as I have proven Nagato's speed to be inferior. There is no way for Nagato to counter this strategy due to Itachi's speed and predictive abilities.

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I will end by thanking my opponent for this debate and the viewers for their time.

i would like to thank my opponent for accepting my challenge as i look forward to hearing his idea's on the topic

i would like to start off with my opponents reasoning behind itachi's speed my opponent belives itachi's speed to be a 9/5 however the statistics state that itachi's speed was a 5/5 my opponent has stated that the sharingan gives the user enhanced speed however it does not it says nowhere http://naruto.wikia.com... in the discription that the sharingan enhances speed so if you were raising the statistics based on that itachi's speed should be reverted back to 5/5 now if you were not baseing it on what you belived to be the sharingan increasing the speed please explain in more detail as to the logics behind your thinking

now for my opponent's plan there are ways to get around it i have devised a plan in which pain could counter and kill itachi,
now for my plans you have to rember that these techniques are all happining simultaneously

PRO: ARG 1
pain's six path jutsu allows him to do six techniques instanenously which makes it hard for itachi to dodge or intercept these techniques even with itachi's speed
attack 1

itachi: katon: gouenkyuu technique, although he can weave the sighns fast it takes time for him to build chakra up inside his body and there for nagato would be able to read the technique quite easily
Animal path: summons konan to the battle while running into the forest fleeing battle
Preta path: hitches a ride with asura path to intercept the fire ball and then charges straight to itachi
Deva path: uses rain at will technique alowing nagato to know where itachi is at all times even if he creates clones or shadow clones
Asura path: taking preta path to go intercept the fireball due to his chakra propulsion boots they would be able to get there in time and go after itachi instantly after words
Human path: protecting nagato along with naraka path
Naraka path: protecting nagato along with human path
Konan: seeing as all her moves do not require hand seals she would be able to use a technique instantly she would cover all paths of pain with paper resulting a defense for the paths particulairly for ameratsu or any other fire type techniques as well as provding a armour for physical attacks

attack 2
itachi: does somthing....
Animal path: finds a safe place for nagato and summons him there
Preta path: absorbing any ninjutsu based attacks thrown towards him or asura and/or draining itachi's chakra when distracted by asura path and/or rain
Deva path: collects the rain used in rain at will tecnique in itachi's eyes causing temporary blindness and itachi will not be able to cast anything
Asura path: has preta path and is attacking itachi with all six of his arms and tail since itachi is blinded he is not able to use eye techniques and will therefore be unable to intercept the attacks and even if somehow he manages to block the bombardment of six limbs attacking at once he will be very distracted from everything else.
Human path: advancing to take out any clones or stuff that will get in the way of the plan with the help of naraka path
Naraka path: advancing to take out any clones or stuff that will get in the way of the plan with the help of human path
Konan: while itachi is distracted by either his eyes and/or asura path she will gently lay peices of paper on itachi's body without him reailising and eventually cover him completely
itachi's techniques = 2
pain's techniques= 14
in the time it took itachi to do two techniques it allowed pain to do 14 due to the six paths

now i have some pointers that make your argument a little defective

1) although the Katon: Gouenkyuu technique will distract pain it will only do so partially due to the fact that there will be at least one rinnegan watching itachi
2) how does itachi know that pain can absorb chakra, beacuse you set this up knowing what pain's abilities are it is unrealistic if itachi was truly trying to test pain's defense he would just fire a regular one which preta pain would absorb now itachi knows what he does then he would follow it by one with a shuriken in it to see what that would do therefore revealing that preta path can only absorb ninjutsu based attacks.

other than that it was a good stratagy

i am sorry i took all this time as i have been out of communication since i am in belarus for a world taekwondo championship so if i am unable to respond please forgive me--- wish me luck

While I admit that I was in error about the Sharingan increasing the user's speed, this was not integral to my reasoning behind Itachi's >9/5 speed; in fact, it was not even a factor. My proof for Itachi's high speed rating is entirely mathematical, and is shown in the debate I cited as source "[1]". As to why Itachi's speed rating in the actual databook is only 5/5, this can easily be explained by the fact that Itachi's speed exceeded the scale's limits. Being "off the charts", the closest measurement to accurate that the scale had was a full 5/5 ranking. Furthermore, as I showed in the cited debate [1], the Third Databook was written at a time when, in the series' plot, Itachi was suffering from terminal disease, which obviously severely impaired his speed. Thus, my claim regarding Itachi's speed has not been adequately refuted, and the assertion that Itachi's speed dwarfs Pain's still stands.

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I will now defend my strategy from refutation.

First of all, the video shows Itachi to use the technique almost instantaneously with virtually no time spent concentrating chakra, and Itachi is known to weave handseals even faster than the video shows, with his casting of ninjutsu being virtually instantaneous due to the speed with which he weaves seals [17]. Thus, the time it takes to concentrate the chakra would not be a factor. Furthermore, though Nagato is able to see chakra, he is not able to mimic a jutsu with the Rinnegan or predict an attack [3]. Thus, Nagato would not be able to "read" the technique and thus would be unable to counter it.

"Attack 1"

Animal Path: By running into the forest, Animal Path would be directly exposing itself to the Gouenkyuu. The forest is close enough to Itachi that, at the speed the Gouenkyuu was shown moving at in the video, it would take at most two seconds for the Gouenkyuu to reach the forest and detonate. As Itachi is capable of activating it virtually instantaneously, it takes two seconds for Itachi to activate Gouenkyuu and for Gouenkyuu to detonate. It is highly unlikely Animal Path would be able to cross ten meters reach the forest within two seconds, meaning that Gouenkyuu would detonate before Animal Path could reach the forest. Furthermore, the shockwave from the Gouenkyuu, which detonated a considerable distance from the user in the video, appeared to be powerful enough to rend the earth even at that far a distance. Even if Itachi were to diminish the size of the Gouenkyuu for the battliefield, the shockwave would almost certainly be enough to shatter the skeletons of Konan and Animal Path, as well as stun them and blast them away from the forest.

Preta Path/Asura Path: Preta Path would not be able to maneuver to Asura and cross all 10 meters into the path of Gouenkyuu within the two seconds it takes for the fireball to hit its target, the forest, and detonate. When they attempt this, they will suffer severe physical damage from the technique's kinetic shockwave, which Preta cannot absorb due to it being a byproduct of the detonation and not a chakra-composed technique.

Deva Path: This tactic would not be successful for obtaining intel on Itachi's location, as Itachi would make his clones immediately after firing Gouenkyuu. As I have proven this would be instantaneous and have shown that Itachi can make lengthy strings of handseals in less than a second, this tactic of Pain's would fail, as Kage Bunshin only takes one seal to activate [18]. Thus, while Deva Path expends a substantial amount of chakra gathering rain clouds in a cloudless environment, Itachi is able to fire Gouenkyuu and create his two clones in no more than a second, quickly going on the offensive.

Human/Naraka Path: I have shown that Itachi's speed far exceeds Pain's, a claim my opponent has failed to counter. My opponent has also not provided a method for Naraka and Human to avoid destruction by Bunshin Bakuha. Human and Naraka would be easily outsped by Itachi and his clones, who would cut them down with kunai. Itachi would then use Destiny Threat on Nagato and kill him instantly, winning the battle.

Konan: Itachi would easily be able to detect Konan's attack and evade it due to his great speed, predictive abilities, and the Sharingan's ability to see chakra. Konan controls paper by imbuing it with chakra [19]; thus, Itachi would be able to see the chakra in the paper and would know to evade.

"Attack 2"

Animal Path: With its skeleton pulverized by the Gouenkyuu detonation, Animal Path would be physically incapable of moving into the forest. Thus, it would not be able to summon Nagato to a safe location. Even if the incapacitated Animal Path were to summon Nagato, Itachi's speed combined with his ability to see chakra would allow him to quickly locate Nagato by tracing the flow of chakra from the bodies to Nagato.

Preta/Asura Path: These bodies' skeletons were also shattered by the shockwave from Gouenkyuu due to their proximity to the explosion, as "Attack 1" had them moving to intercept Gouenkyuu. This would cause them to be within the range of the shockwave, causing their skeletons to be pulverized (or, in Asura's case, causing its internal circuitry to be severely damaged). Thus, they would be physically incapable of enacting "Attack 2".

Human/Naraka: See "Attack 1".

Deva: The Rain Tiger at Will technique is not capable of the described maneuver [20]. Furthermore, if Deva were to attempt to blind Itachi with a ninjutsu, Itachi would be able to predict the attack with his Sharingan and evade with his immense speed.

Konan: See "Attack 1".

Also, Itachi would be able to instantly incapacitate Nagato with Destiny Threat, nullifying Attacks 1 and 2.

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"Pointers":

1) Itachi could easily use a smoke bomb to hide himself, which would not slow him in the slightest due to his immense speed of hand movement [17].

2) Itachi would use the Hosenka/Shuriken technique to prevent nullification of the fireballs from nullifying the technique. This would not be meant specifically to counter Fujutsu Kyuuin; rather, it is intended to heighten the chances of doing damage while testing Pain's defenses.

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I will end by presenting another strategy.

STRAT2: Itachi could simply look across the 15 meter distance at Nagato and kill him instantly with Destiny Threat. With his Sharingan combined with his own immense speed of thought, Itachi would be able to discern the fact that Nagato, who already appears rather conspicuous due to his chair and lack of clothing, is the controller of the technique. Knowing this, Itachi could hit him with Destiny Threat immediately, killing him and ending the battle. The fire engulfs the whole body, thus damaging the chakra receptors on Nagato's back and impairing his control of the Pain bodies. Thus, by using Destiny Threat immediately, Itachi instantly neutralizes the Pain bodies and kills Nagato, who lacks any way to counter or defend against Destiny Threat.

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To summarize the debate thus far: CON has presented two strategies, both of which still stand. PRO has failed to counter CON's first strategy. CON has countered PRO's strategy. None of PRO's strategies are functional, while both of CON's strategies still stand.

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I will end by thanking my opponent for the debate and by wishing him luck at the tournament. I would also like to thank the viewers for their time. Please vote CON when the time comes.

although you can prove that itachi's speed is indeed 9/5 we have no information regarding the speed of pain beacuse it was shown that pain was able to out run naruto in sage mode and when naruto turned into the six tail mode he was able to esape battle here is a link to youtube where you can see what im talking about
i think that this might be due to the factor of how much chakra pain puts into the bodies therefore enhancing their speed and so i have reason to belive that naruto's sage mode speed is equall to that of itachi's regular speed so if pain were to boost the chakra levels in the paths then it would allow them to surpass itachi's speed.

i will now refute my opponents points

even though he can weave the sighns at an incredible rate it is like Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique where the chakra is molded inside the body and expelled through the mouth so he still has to build the chakra inside his body and then expel it through the mouth in order for this technique to work thus allowing pain to see the chakra build up and prepare. even if pain doesnt see the chakra build up with asura's rocket propulsion boots ten meters is a short distance and they only need to make it to the corner of the blast to stop it from expoloding and absorb the chakra

animal path: as i said in my cited debate i have reason to beilieve that the speed of the path's depend on how much chakra pain puts into those path's and so i think that animal path would be able to get out of there fast enough

asura path: asura's chakra propulsion boots would be able to allow asura and preta to reach speeds of one seacond giveing preta path enough time to absorb this attack

deva path: couldnt agree with you more but once again there will always be one eye watching itachi and by keeping this eye foucused on itachi nagato would know which one is which

human/naraka: as i have stated in my cited debate the amount speed each path has is determind by how much chakra is being used in each one the othe thing is that the down part to the shadow clone jutsu is the fact that human/naraka only need to touch the clones once to make them disappear henceforth making it obvious which one is the real itachi

konan: she is not attacking itachi she is simply covering the paths and nagato with paper resulting a defense against any fire techniques even the ameratsu

attack 2

CON: "Even if the incapacitated Animal Path were to summon Nagato, Itachi's speed combined with his ability to see chakra would allow him to quickly locate Nagato by tracing the flow of chakra from the bodies to Nagato."

this is untrue beacuse naruto would have been able to sense that while in sage mode however he was not able to so i think that some how the chakra rods method conseals the chakra from being seen

CON: "Deva: The Rain Tiger at Will technique is not capable of the described maneuver [20]. Furthermore, if Deva were to attempt to blind Itachi with a ninjutsu, Itachi would be able to predict the attack with his Sharingan and evade with his immense speed."

i have never heard of anyone being able to out run rain.
CON: "Also, Itachi would be able to instantly incapacitate Nagato with Destiny Threat, nullifying Attacks 1 and 2."

PRO: in attack one konan is covering pain (as in pain all the paths as well ) with paper creating a defense particularily for ameratsu and any other fire or water based techniques. see attack one konan

CON'SSTRAT 2

that was one of the reasons i wanted nagato to be conseald to make this as realistic as possible which i sent via message which you turned down there are only three ways to counter this, one way would be for nagato to see itachi's chakra building up in his eye's and get one of his paths in front of him, the seacond way would to have konan cover him with paper, the third way is to summon somthing in front of him to take the hit beacuse it is said that nagato can do any technique that any of his paths could do

now as you have proven my stratagy to be partially defective i present you with a new improved stratagy

animal path: summons konan while being flung into the forrest by naraka path
preta path: stands in front of nagato
deva path: uses Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave to put out the fire this techniques can be used quickly due to the fact that the ocean is right there
asura path: uses the Water Release: Exploding Water Colliding Wave to conseal that he is coming and then bursts straight to itachi attacking him with Flaming Arrow Missiles which are heat seaking and will destroy the clones and hit itachi then engaging in close combat
human path: protecting nagato
naraka path: protecting nagato
konan: uses paper to create a defense for nagato against ameratsu or any other fire or water type techniques as the paper can just shed off when attacked

move two
animal path: waits till itachi shoots out somthing at nagato then summons him so that it will waste itachi's chakra
preta path: stands in front of nagato
deva path: creates three shadow clones of asura path and make them use flaming arrows to blind/distract, and damage itachi and are closeing in on itachi holding deva path while deva path makes a chakra rod and fires it like a bullet at itachi using shinra tensin, similar to what he does to kakashi in anime which itach will not be able to dodge even with his high speed a bullet is faster here is the link to the technique im talking about watch pain vs kakashi above skip to 9:10 to see the technique
asura path: engages itachi in close combat with his clones and deva path backing him up
human path: protecting nagato
naraka path: protecting nagato
konan: confronting itachi using paper to distract itachi (like placing on ground to make him slip or putting on face stuff that get in the way) allowing an oppening for deva pain to use a massive shinra tensinwhich crushes itachi and kills him/use the bullet technique which kills him

i look forward to hearing you response
if i am unable to respond please forgive me

As to Itachi's speed: First of all, the video does not show Sage Mode, nor does it show Pain outrunning Kyuubi Naruto.

PRO has cited no corroborating evidence to my opponent's claim that Pain can reach a speed more than doubling Kakashi's simply by adding more chakra into the Pain bodies, while I have shown information that contradicts this claim [6]. As such, this claim is invalid.

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I will now counter my opponent's rebuttal.

STRAT. 1:

My opponent has failed to prove his assertion that Itachi would be slowed by the time it takes to mold his chakra. Furthermore, in the video I provided, Itachi has fully activated the jutsu in two seconds despite not moving at full speed (which can be reasoned by the fact that his hand movements are visible, while he is capable of moving so quickly that they cannot be seen, even by a user of the Sharingan [17][21]) . Thus, it can be reasoned that the time it takes Itachi to mold his chakra does not slow him.

Animal Path: My opponent has not cited any debate where this was proven, while I have provided information contradicting this assertion.

Asura Path: My opponent has not proven that Asura Path's propulsion boots are capable of crossing a distance of 10 meters in less than three seconds, the speed that would be required to intercept Gouenkyuu.

Deva Path: Seeing that Deva is watching him, Itachi could simply rearrange himself and the clones repeatedly in the style of a shell game. Pain would not be able to tell which is the original Itachi and which is the clone due to Itachi's far superior speed, the Rinnegan's lack of predictive abilities, and Kage Bunshin being indistinguishable from the original.

Human/Naraka: Once again, my opponent has cited no debate or other corroborating source to prove his claim, which I have contradicted with evidence.

Konan: First of all, Konan has not been shown to be impervious to Amaterasu. Secondly, Konan is not fast enough to scatter her paper across all seven of Nagato's bodies (including Nagato himself) before Itachi sets eyes on Nagato and uses Destiny Threat, instantly killing him and winning the battle.

"Attack 2":

Naruto was unable to deduce the nature of the Rikudo Pain jutsu without using one of the receptors due to his inability to see chakra. As Itachi is able to see chakra [4], he would be able to see the chakra flowing from Nagato to the bodies, allowing him to deduce the nature of the jutsu.

The issue at hand is not whether Itachi is capable of outrunning rain; It is whether or not the rain is able to obstruct his eyesight and whether Pain is capable of collecting the water in an enemy's eyes. The latter has never been shown. As to the former, I and many of the voters can attest from personal experience that humans have no problem seeing during rain unless the raindrops are directly impacting their eyes, which is highly unlikely.

Konan is not fast enough to cocoon Nagato in paper before Itachi can set eyes upon him. This comes down to a race between Itachi's eyes and Konan's paper. Konan was summoned several meters away from Nagato; thus, she has to send her paper across several meters to protect him. However, Itachi merely has to look at Nagato to kill him. Due to Itachi's high speed and the speed of human eye movement, it is virtually impossible for Konan to protect Nagato in time to stop Destiny Threat.

STRAT. 2:

Even if Nagato were to perceive Itachi building chakra, there would be no way for him to know that he should place a body between himself and Itachi, as he has no knowledge of this technique. Furthermore, Animal Path would not have time to summon Konan and send her after Itachi, as Itachi can activate this technique the moment he looks at Nagato. As to the summon being used as a shield, as I said earlier, Nagato has no way of knowing that placing something between himself and Itachi is the proper response.

"Improved Strategy":

This is all moot. Animal Path and Konan are not fast enough to summon Konan and coat Nagato in paper, respectively, before Itachi can look at Nagato and activate Destiny Threat.

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To summarize, my opponent has no way of winning this debate, as Pain does not have the knowledge and speed to protect himself from Destiny Threat before Itachi can look at Nagato. There is no way for Nagato to move out of the way before Itachi can set eyes upon him; thus, there is no way for him to survive. PRO has no strategy that can defend against this attack plan; thus, I urge a CON vote.

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I will now respond to my opponent's strategies.

My opponent's strategies are invalid, as there is no time for them to occur. By using Destiny Threat, Itachi could instantly kill Nagato, rendering both strategies moot.

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To summarize: My opponent has no way of winning this debate, as Pain does not have the knowledge and speed to protect himself from Destiny Threat before Itachi can look at Nagato. There is no way for Nagato to move out of the way before Itachi can set eyes upon him; thus, there is no way for him to survive. PRO has no strategy that can defend against this attack plan; thus, I urge a CON vote.

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I will end by thanking my opponent for the debate and the viewers for their time. Please vote CON when the voting phase arrives.

As my opponent has forfeited his R4 statement, all of my arguments still stand while none of my opponent's arguments do. Thus, I urge a CON vote. I thank my opponent for the debate and the viewers for their time.