Originally posted by U2democrat Don't minimize him to just a freshman senator. He has done great things for the state of Illinois too.

I'm not familiar with his record in Illinois, but every politician has to start somewhere. Some of them started with the local city council, the school board or the PTA, and the most capable of them end up getting elected to the Senate and such. Obama has been elected to the Senate. This is no mean accomplishment. Of course it means he hasn't actually been a U.S. Senator and he needs to get a record. He's inexperienced right now, but he can play a part in the 2008 campaign and run his own campaign in 2012.

Originally posted by drhark Wow..... you've got all your hopes pinned on one dude who's served a few days in the US Senate and gave one good speech. What does that say about your party? Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Lucky for us your party still belongs to the Clintons who are trying to keep it from the Michael Moore /Howard Dean kooks. Good Luck! You guys run on Cults of Personality and we'll run on big ideas.

Big ideas? Please tell me what your leader good ole W did before his presidency that made him such a leader? I mean besides out drink everyone, ride daddy's coat tails, run every business venture into the ground, or leave the state of TX in worse shape then he got it.

The only problem is that everybody is putting the cart before the horse with Obama. Sure, he's a great speaker...But I keep thinking whenever people talk about him that "the guy hasn't even done anything yet!" Perhaps he will do great things, but I wouldn't be so quick to christen him as the bigshot of the democratic party quite yet. His actions in the next few years will be the determining factor in whether he's a rising star.

You're right, he hasn't done jack crap yet, but if Clinton or Obama are not bigshots in the Democratic Party, jeez... who is? Teresa Heinz Kerry?

Big ideas? Please tell me what your leader good ole W did before his presidency that made him such a leader? I mean besides out drink everyone, ride daddy's coat tails, run every business venture into the ground, or leave the state of TX in worse shape then he got it.

You're right Obama's no W.

I was just thinking that myself. I guess it all depends on what you consider a big idea. I know that what some people consider a "big idea" I consider a brain fart (not naming names or anything though ).

I know W and I are just simpletons, but by big ideas I mean things like freedom. The alternative to freedom in the Middle East is the status quo which is unacceptable. W had the balls to break the status Quo post 9/11. Yes, there is the prospect of failure but I hope to God there isn't and so should you. Personally I bet on the desire of most people to be free and live in peace. But that's just the secular humanist in me.

P.S. I know W only had a term and a half before being elected. But he wasn't being touted as the savior of the party after a single speech at a convention. This was the point I was making about Obama.

Originally posted by drhark Correct. The ideas of the party are what keeps winning elections. Clinton was a great personality and was elected despite the ideas of the Democratic Party

Correct. The only way Democrats can succeed in winning presidential elections these days is selecting "personalities" rather than people of their word. Mainstream America is still afraid of what a mainline Democrat would do to the country.