since every pitcher on the staff is suddenly starting to pull a Dontrelle, it should be on the pitching coaches head right? if anything just to fire them up. the starters look flat out there, at least some emotion when you're getting lit up. shows you still care

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

The guy has produced back to back Cy Young winners. His pitchers are certainly sucking, but so is defense, base running and timely hitting (I am sure I left out some). I don't think the coach with the most recent success is the first one to go.

OSU819903 wrote:The guy has produced back to back Cy Young winners. His pitchers are certainly sucking, but so is defense, base running and timely hitting (I am sure I left out some). I don't think the coach with the most recent success is the first one to go.

True, and what does he really have to work with? I knew Cliff would be average to good this year, but I didnt think he'd be like CC in April last year.

Chris wrote:to be brutally honest I think both him and Shelton need canned, to send a message at least.

I love this place. 4 games into the season, we're ready to fire the pitching coach AND the hitting coach, to "send a message." What message would that be, exactly? We're insanely impulsive and love flying half-cocked off the handle for no apparent reason? Do you really think that the missing link for this team right now is shitcanning the coaching staff?

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Chris wrote:to be brutally honest I think both him and Shelton need canned, to send a message at least.

I love this place. 4 games into the season, we're ready to fire the pitching coach AND the hitting coach, to "send a message." What message would that be, exactly? We're insanely impulsive and love flying half-cocked off the handle for no apparent reason? Do you really think that the missing link for this team right now is shitcanning the coaching staff?

Well I mean more if this CONTINUES. obviously after 4 games (5 after the butt whooping today) is too soon. But the same thing happened last year GoTribe31. Eventually, you have to make changes.

I think most of us realize that its only 4 games (the way we're playing, soon to be 5...) but its the manor in which we're loosing. It's one thing to loose because of a few close plays. It's another to be consistently destroyed over and over again, with most of the team playing badly.

Each of these games has highlighted several major weaknesses in out playing. We really do look like a little league team out there. Its worth trying to figure out what to do.

Chris wrote:to be brutally honest I think both him and Shelton need canned, to send a message at least.

I love this place. 4 games into the season, we're ready to fire the pitching coach AND the hitting coach, to "send a message." What message would that be, exactly? We're insanely impulsive and love flying half-cocked off the handle for no apparent reason? Do you really think that the missing link for this team right now is shitcanning the coaching staff?

Oh come on, GT31, firing coaches one week in, after they've put in the time and laid the groundwork for the past 6 months is always a guarateed 10 game winning streak

"i've been gettin G-ed up since i came out the hospital as a baby. i didn't wear pampers, i wore some slacks and some gators on the way home.""in order for us to grow u gotta know, in order to love the brotherman, u gotta know the otherman. because one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish. knick knack paddy wack, give the dog a bone." - Delonte West

Unless Carl Willis advocated trading Sabathia, whacked Westbrook in his right elbow last year, insisted that the Tribe sign Pavano and Lewis to fill the rotation and showed Lee his 2007 game film instead of 2008, I don't see how any of this is his fault.

Well, expectations for the Indians were high in 2006-2009. In 2006 and 2008, we performed well below those expectations, mainly due to an awful bullpen. If we end up tanking this year as well (and I am not saying we will..just for the sake of argument), some heads will have to roll..people much higher on the totem pole than Luis Isaac.

Bigfist wrote:Well, expectations for the Indians were high in 2006-2009. In 2006 and 2008, we performed well below those expectations, mainly due to an awful bullpen. If we end up tanking this year as well (and I am not saying we will..just for the sake of argument), some heads will have to roll..people much higher on the totem pole than Luis Isaac.

Forget Willis and Shelton...the whole staff, including most of all Wedge, deserves to be canned. I don't care if it's 5 games in a season. Bottom line, this team has consistently gotten off to a cold start in April under Wedge. You go against a power arm, number one starter in Holliday, and what does Wedge do? He leaves our left-handed power bat out of the line-up, saying Hafner needs to be rested every now and then in the beginning of the year. People, we had played only four games thus far, and also had an off day. Hafner gets into a groove the last two games for the first time in a year, and Wedge sits him. Unbelievable!

It is painfully obvious that Wedge did not have this team ready to play coming out of the gate. It's a pattern. He didn't know how to get a team ready, especially in Arizona, where it's 14-12 slugfests every day. There's an art to prepare a team for the regular season in Arizona, and Wedge didn't have a clue. He didn't prepare this team any differently given the new spring training location and its differences, and we are paying right now.

All this talk of firing Willis is a waste of time, in my opinion. I am neutral towards him...if he gets the credit for CC and Lee's Cy Young awards, then he must shoulder some of the blame for the BP failures in 2006 and 2008. On the other hand, if he is being blamed for those bullpens, then he must get some credit for CC's and Lee's Cy Young awards. But he is not going to be fired....he is Wedge's hand picked man. Besides..it is way too early to fire anyone just yet.

We can overcome an 0-5 start..what concerns me more is that we are going into KC..a place we never play well, even with good teams, and then into NYC (another place we tend not to play well) for the opening of their park. Who knows...it is certainly not beyond the realm of possibility that we open the season 3-10.

jordan kramer wrote:since every pitcher on the staff is suddenly starting to pull a Dontrelle, it should be on the pitching coaches head right? if anything just to fire them up. the starters look flat out there, at least some emotion when you're getting lit up. shows you still care

YEAH! Screw the 2 Cy Young award winners he's produced!

We need to send a message because these first 5 games are just that damn important!

I hear ya. I'm right there with ya brotha!

Losing 5 games in a row isn't acceptable. Whenever it happens people need to be fired. SEND A MESSAGE TO THESE LOSERS!

How about the amount of strikeouts the Indians are averaging per game. It's ridiculous. It's like 9.2 per game!

Well, I'm not going to make an arguement that the 9+ strikeouts per game are a good thing, but they have also averaged 5.5 runs per game (which equates to 891 over a 162 game season).

That would've been good enough for 2nd in all of MLB in 2008.... now you could make a case that they wouldn't be able to keep up that average with that number of Ks over the course of a season, but the offense is hardly the problem right now.

I can't put the blame on Willis' head. I think you're looking at an unprepared team due to the new spring training location. I don't know that the current coaching staff was prepared for the change, whether that be their or the scouts or the front office's fault I can't say. But I do have to admit the typical lack of preparedness to play fundamentally sound baseball is, again, disappointing.

On to the real answer to the question: Willis should only be fired if Wedge is fired and the new coach replaces him. Unless it was Willis' vote that allowed M. Kobayashi to have a slot on this pitching staff. Then attach him to the next 16-inch fire-mission from a battleship (we'll worry about the pieces later...).

How about the amount of strikeouts the Indians are averaging per game. It's ridiculous. It's like 9.2 per game!

Well, I'm not going to make an arguement that the 9+ strikeouts per game are a good thing, but they have also averaged 5.5 runs per game (which equates to 891 over a 162 game season).

That would've been good enough for 2nd in all of MLB in 2008.... now you could make a case that they wouldn't be able to keep up that average with that number of Ks over the course of a season, but the offense is hardly the problem right now.

the offense may not be the problem but it as hell is a problem. if this team isn't the worst situational hitting team in baseball i don't know who is. if i see 2nd and 3rd with nobody out turn in zero runs anytime again soon i'm gonna freak the hell out.