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^Wait? Wait? Hold on buddy, fighting one nation because of one person? Ain't that the same thing which you were doing in your so-called 'War On Terror'? Look mate, as a limey, I don't mind Yanks, I just don't get why you build your nation on such self-serving, self-pitying hypocrisy. If the same thing happened in an Arabic country, if it happened say 5 years ago in Afghanistan, you'd blame it on Al Qaeda, right? Yet you want people to feel pity for a nation built on war, a nation which when it doesn't participate in a war forces a war, forces violence, a nation which gives people guns then acts surprised and shocked when a gun goes off? If this happened here, if it happened in Luxembourg, Macau, Kiribati, Tuvalu, Comoros, Turkey, a country not built on guns and gunboat diplomacy, then yeah I would care more. Yeah they're children, it's sad, the little brats won't have Christmas, yeah it's sad, but that's not the point and the point of the matter is until you at least want to gain peace, until you don't force us Brits to join you in a suicide charge against some far-out Arabic or Arabic-related country which we know we can't defeat, until you put the well-being of the majority before the minority, follow our leads, follow the world's leads, that's what I'm getting at here. If that makes me a bad guy, then sure blame the Brit, do the same goddamn thing you always do, but until you stop believing that the phrase 'dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori' means the world to you, then I'll leave.

I'm british =P Barack Obama seemingly isn't too bothered about being friends with us. Do you not recall 9/11 and the 7/7 bombings? That's why we are going on a so-called "suicide charge" against terror. People died innocently. Is that not a reason? It's almost like saying the Russians wouldn't nuke anyone if they got nuked.

And with opinions like you, peace won't ever exist.

EDIT: How about we worry about this in the gun law thread? I probably will let others argue the view point most of us have of you.

^Because he's American. Every American commits a Shooting Massacre it seems. As a British person who doesn't carry 50 guns with me at any time like you Yanks seem to do, maybe you should, iunno, stop people from carrying guns. Because here's the shocker if people don't have guns, then they can't commit gun crimes. Am I the only one who doesn't care, not meaning to sound harsh or anything but Americans shooting places up then killing themselves is becoming passe. I mean first Columbine, then Virginia Tech then this. I don't know America, show some originality in your horrible deeds, don't milk the Educational Massacre Tragedy cow for all it's worth, or at least wait like 30 or 40 years before you do a rehash.

Dude, that's not cool. Not every American carries a gun. Not every American is a psycho. Every single country can have this problem whether you have guns or not. A couple of people brought up the incident in China where a psycho came into a classroom and knifed about 22 children. Just because you guys have strict gun laws doesn't mean you should call out everyone on it.

We shouldn't be turning this into a political debate, even if Washington is doing just that (because that's what Washington does, turn everything into politics). This is a serious tragedy, and it should be discussed and approached as such. This stuff happens, yes. Should we be doing something about it? Absolutely, but we shouldn't be focusing on gun laws. We should be looking at the shooter, and their personal motive(s) and focus on how we can prevent future tragedies from happening. People like to bring up the fact that mental institutions are closing down, and thus mentally-unstable people are roaming the streets ready to snap. I don't like to believe they're bad people on the inside, they just can't control themselves, and that's why help exists for them. We take away that help, the public becomes much more dangerous, because one wrong, seemingly-innocent mistake could set someone off.

Someone on one of the news stations (I think Channel 12 here) mentioned that the person, after killing his mother, went to the school to get rid of the children because he felt they were like a part of his mother he wanted to destroy. I don't know how true that is, but it sounds like a plausible, albeit extremely disturbing motive, though why he would kill his mother is anyone's guess at this point.

EDIT: How about we worry about this in the gun law thread? I probably will let others argue the view point most of us have of you.

Originally Posted by Kutie Pie

We shouldn't be turning this into a political debate, even if Washington is doing just that (because that's what Washington does, turn everything into politics). This is a serious tragedy, and it should be discussed and approached as such... we shouldn't be focusing on gun laws. We should be looking at the shooter, and their personal motive(s) and focus on how we can prevent future tragedies from happening.

thank you both for understanding how threads ****ing work around here. @armand payne, you can debate your ridiculous, nasty opinions in the gun law thread and probably find other narrow-mind people who have the same opinions.

Originally Posted by Armando Payne

the little brats won't have Christmas

Originally Posted by Valoo.

You're a disgusting human being.

well said.

Originally Posted by Armando Payne

If this happened here, if it happened in Luxembourg, Macau, Kiribati, Tuvalu, Comoros, Turkey, a country not built on guns and gunboat diplomacy, then yeah I would care more.

are you kidding me? I WOULD CARE. i would feel so much sympathy if a a bunch of kids were killed in Iraq, or Gaza, or Syria, or China (which that just happened and OMG how sad), or Russia, and I use these places as examples because these are the places that the U.S. has strained relationships with -- I'm making a point. would the U.S. media care?

HELLL NOOO!!!

because the media only shows things that will get reaction. you're basically saying that America only reacts to stuff that happens to them. that's only because that's all the media shows. but if the media didn't do things just to benefit themselves, then they would show this other stuff. so don't judge the nation's people based on its media. americans aren't heartless like how you perceive them.

if you post here again, then you're just looking for an online fight, which makes you IMMATURE BEYOND BELIEF. and anyone who debates with you is just adding fuel to the fire. with that being said, i'm officially IGNORING THE HELL OUT OF YOU.

Originally Posted by Kutie Pie

Someone on one of the news stations (I think Channel 12 here) mentioned that the person, after killing his mother, went to the school to get rid of the children because he felt they were like a part of his mother he wanted to destroy. I don't know how true that is, but it sounds like a plausible, albeit extremely disturbing motive, though why he would kill his mother is anyone's guess at this point.

according to the most recent statement by the Connecticut officer, anything you hear or read that isn't DIRECTLY from the connecticut state police is most likely false so i wouldn't believe it. that especially includes any facebook groups and other social media; lies, all of them

Last edited by flamebeam; 16th December 2012 at 7:07 PM.

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but that's not the point and the point of the matter is until you at least want to gain peace, until you don't force us Brits to join you in a suicide charge against some far-out Arabic or Arabic-related country which we know we can't defeat, until you put the well-being of the majority before the minority, follow our leads, follow the world's leads, that's what I'm getting at here. If that makes me a bad guy, then sure blame the Brit, do the same goddamn thing you always do, but until you stop believing that the phrase 'dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori' means the world to you, then I'll leave.

You are probably the most dumbest and insensitive person on this site.

Armando Payne, I know you're trying to be funny, but it would really help all of us if you could please stop, and shut the fuck up for a while. You're really not helping a thing.

Originally Posted by Manna

There.

Obviously, the problem is bigger than gun laws, but I don't know why people are denying that the easy access of guns isn't a problem at all.

I'd say the two big problems are mental health and gun control.

In short, this. I think that the easy access is a huge problem. Nobody needs an assault rifle on a day-to-day basis. Hell, most people don't even need a gun at all. Putting more guns into the situation would not be likely to help and would probably just make matters worse, unless they were trained professionals.

Someone suggested that all schools have an arsenal to which staff could rush to arm up in case of a shooter. This is a magnificently dumb idea, as all a shooter needs to then do is take a position near said arsenal and shoot anyone going into it.

Armando Payne has a point though, underneath all that cynicism. This isn't the first time crap like this happened and yet Americka is taking no steps to stopping it from happening again. Pretty much throwing the children, their future, into a fire to burn and be extinguished by a million tears. A prayer for a dead munchkin ain't gonna do any good, action needs to be taken to stop madness like this from happening again, cause next time this happens, I won't be shedding a single tear but I'll be shaking my head because it could've been prevented.

It makes me sick that some people are just throwing this aside and saying "oh it's not like something like this has never happened before."
Yes, mass shootings happen, people die. But 20 babies died.. most of them only 6 years old. Imagine you were the parent of one of these kids. Or just being a parent now.. how hard and scary it is sending your child to school after this.
If the news on this, and seeing these children's faces don't make you shed a tear.. then there's something wrong with you.
People are going to pray. I honestly don't believe anything is going to stop insane people from doing crap like this again, unfortunately. If a person is THAT crazy.. nothing is going to stop them from doing crazy shit.

But I'm not a parent, these aren't my kids. I don't have some obligation to cry because some tots I didn't know or care about died. The school should've had some form of security. I have no tears to shed, so I guess I'm wrong in that I'm not some melodramatic nut.

You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news.

But I'm not a parent, these aren't my kids. I don't have some obligation to cry because some tots I didn't know or care about died. The school should've had some form of security. I have no tears to shed, so I guess I'm wrong in that I'm not some melodramatic nut.

If you watched the news, they said plenty of times the school had a huge security system where you have to be let in the door by someone, or enter in your ID. Adam shot his way through the window.

And wow.. you are one heartless guy. Innocent, smiling, carefree children.. getting shot (some even 11 times).. and not even a small amount of feelings for them or their families?

I guess this one hit me hard because 20 CHILDREN got SHOT. Children have not done anything to deserve this.

^Exactly, this is coming in from me, but Morgan Freeman put up a good point, wherein he basically stated that nobody bothers to learn the victims name. (Go ahead, without looking, without checking, from memory, recite all their names and ages of all the victims of Virginia Tech, Columbine and this here thing) If you, the media, the Americans bothered enough about this, just forget about their names, leave them be, don't talk about them, hell because there's no such thing as bad publicity and if you keep on harping on about the tragedy, but comment on the killers rather then the victims, then boom! the killer's won. For you people, all you people who care about the tragedy, forget about the killer, forget everything you know, just let the killer go, what he's done, he's done, but just remember the victims. (I'm only cynical, because I'm logical, that is all.)

As to what once, it now is. For this my retirement tour, let us commence, forevermore, forevermore.

^Victorious. Everything now, every time you remember him and think of the victims as just names, every time you mention the killer's names and not the victims, he's victorious, the ultimate Thanatos Gambit.

As to what once, it now is. For this my retirement tour, let us commence, forevermore, forevermore.

Have I cried tears? No but I have prayed for the families and my heart goes out to the victims, But Armando and Meddler do have a point. Why are we glorifying a man who killed these children? I didn't know his name till now and I never cared to.

Everyone who cares are remembering the faces of the victims. If you come over to Newtown, you'll see all the support and love the victims are receiving. Nobody gives a shit about the shooter, just paying their respects to the children and families.

And for whoever is still talking about the shooter, I didn't know talking shit about a guy was the same as giving him glory? lol

I want to say that I do have feelings for them, however I also didn't cry as well. Maybe that comes along with not being much of a crier.

But I'm far from heartless. People have different ways of expressing sorrow.

i wouldn't say i cried either; my eyes got watery a couple of times, but if you don't feel sorrow, then yes, that is heartless. i personally am not glorifying the killer. i don't even know his name. and, like i said before, the media does it wrong. i know that; that's why my eyes aren't glued to the tv. will i remember the names of any victims? probably not. will i eventually learn the killer's name? yes, because of the media. will i obsess over this issue like many people will on monday? no, because this was a sad thing and i don't wanna dwell on it. i think, despite this tragedy, the media needs to focus on more important issues like the fiscal cliff and the issues in israel. still, that doesn't mean this news didnt upset me. i don't blame America for it; i do somewhat blame guns, but I'm DEFINITELY not getting into THAT discussion, so nobody try to argue with me about that. all that matters about this story -- relative to news, NOT politics/media -- is that people died and it's sad, and updates

Last edited by flamebeam; 16th December 2012 at 10:35 PM.

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i wouldn't say i cried either; my eyes got watery a couple of times, but if you don't feel sorrow, then yes, that is heartless. i personally am not glorifying the killer. i don't even know his name. and, like i said before, the media does it wrong. i know that; that's why my eyes aren't glued to the tv. will i remember the names of any victims? probably not. will i eventually learn the killer's name? yes, because of the media. will i obsess over this issue like many people will on monday? no, because this was a sad thing and i don't wanna dwell on it.

I didn't cry tears, but I was really, really upset over the news (especially since I love kids and do work with them weekly at church, and my parents are both teachers). I don't know any of the victims' names, but I have sympathy for their friends and family. Through a religious point-of-view, I believe the victims are in a better, safer place, and the shooter has gotten his judgment the moment he pulled the trigger on himself. It's helped calm me down, though it still hurts to think about what happened.

I don't believe anyone here is intentionally glorifying the killer, but the media likes to twist things around whenever something makes national headlines, we've seen it happen over and over again (not going to list examples). They have some kind of sick pleasure over it, especially when it comes to avoiding talk of other important things going on like the fiscal cliff and Israel.

Eventually, in about a week or two, this will just be another news headline, and things will return to "normal" until the next big tragedy happens. It's a rather nasty cycle, now that I think about it. Should we forget? Depends on the individual, but we shouldn't have to remember it through a statistical point-of-view like most other disastrous events in the course of history. We lived and witnessed it, and that's what we should try and hold onto.

My bad.. I was just angry at the people throwing this away like it's nothing, which is why I said if you didn't cry something was wrong with you. Didn't mean it like that, what I really meant was, if you didn't feel any one bit of sadness or sorrow from this then something was wrong.

so this has been going on for about 21 months. and 10s of 1000s of people have died. a lot of nations, including the u.s., have recognized the rebels as.the representative government. I'm guessing these are the anti-Syria nations

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My bad.. I was just angry at the people throwing this away like it's nothing, which is why I said if you didn't cry something was wrong with you. Didn't mean it like that, what I really meant was, if you didn't feel any one bit of sadness or sorrow from this then something was wrong.

It feels even worse when you actually see the faces of the victims.. especially seeing how small and young they were.

Ok, am I the only one who thought "the hunger games" after seing this?

And about the killer, my mom says that she heard on the news that his sister is missing. I'm pretty sure we all have a good guess at what happened to her.

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