/m/wbc

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You talk about me "rule lawyering" but you don't seem to understand that all your prattling on about how "A UNIFORM MUST BE WORN PROPERLY" is just spitting in the wind. Rules are important to wearing your uniform properly. The magical "proper way to wear one's uniform" doesn't arrive from heaven, edged in gilt. It's something that is defined by the rules to wearing your uniform determined by the governing body.

If you go into the army and you want to know how to properly wear your uniform what do you do? Pray to the gods of army uniforms? Or do you read the regulations (or ask command) regarding how to properly wear your uniform. Period. What you're doing about this nebulous "this is how it is because this is how it is even though it isn't how it is" is lawyering of its own sort. Except you don't have a leg to stand on except this stodgy concept that "most people (but not all) have done it this way throughout baseball history." I certainly don't blame those who operate from a different cultural background and don't care what a bunch of people who wouldn't have let them play the game might have possibly thought if we read their mind. I love this idea that they're supposed to suss out with reverance something that has never even been defined in the first place, such as "the unwritten rules of cap wearing"

(1) Why is "No Problem" not an acceptable alternate to "You're Welcome"?

I went through most of the first 33 years of my life saying "no problem" and never had anyone take issue with it. However, a few months ago I used it in response to an email from a client and an older colleague (~50 I would guess) who was cc'd sent me the following response:

May I share with you a client-facing idea?

Whenever you visit a Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton hotel, you will never hear the phrase, "no problem." Never. Instead, their staff will say, "my pleasure," "with pleasure," "absolutely.". They always use positive words. They are very specifically trained to avoid the phrase, "no problem."

If you ever hear a staff member of either of those two chains using the term, "no problem," please let me know. I will pay you $5, and you have zero downside.

So, in the future, try to avoid using a very negative phrase, "no problem."

I thought this was ridiculous, as did other colleagues who I showed it to. But I can't say it hasn't caused me to pause and think about my use of the phrase in client settings.

I honestly feel like Jennifer Aniston in the "pieces of flair" discussion right now.

And the fact that you don't get that Jennifer Aniston was showing lack of respect is part of the problem. She wasn't disrespecting the uniform(and to be fair, that company didn't deserve respect because of the silliness of the rule and other reasons) but she was showing it lack of respect. Mind you in that particular case it was a very minor lack and it takes a really uptight tight ass to make a problem with it.

The point is that the Jennifer Aniston didn't like the company she was working for, it showed(to her boss) in her actions. And her actions were a lot more minor level of lack of respect as say cutting the sleeves off of a uniform or wearing a hat backwards(note: again I don't have a problem with the hat wearing to the side, especially for a pitcher, as there could be a practical, arguable reason for him to do it)

As to the stodgy concept? I really hope you are pulling my leg, nobody could be as dumb as you are pretending to be right now. I understand you not really getting the lack of respect angle, if it's not written in the rules(I don't agree, and think that you might need to talk to someone to see if you have a mild form of autism, but I can understand your viewpoint on that) but to not know how a hat is supposed to be worn unless it's written down, is just ignorance. Pure and simple.

cardsafanboy, I disagree with everything you are saying. Well, except for the part where you get to tell everyone how to act. I wish I could tell people how to act during the national anthem - they just stand at attention like trained dogs staring at their master's hand waiting for the next command. This is the USA! When we are told to do something, we think of a creative way to tell them to shove it. Don't blindly do what your told, take off your pants and run across the field - that's more patriotic in my eyes than standing dumb with your hand on heart like commies to Stalin. Freedom of expression, the American way!

Respect the uniform? No, respect Rodney's right to act as an individual. Even if it does make him look like a drunk Charlie Callas.

As I read through the thread, I was hoping that someone would distinguish between "disrespect" vs. "lack of respect" and I think CFB did a good job at it. I'm probably in category 4a

4a. A reasonable person could interpret Rodney's actions as showing a lack of respect. Not wearing the uniform as it's properly intended shows a lack of caring enough to do the little things that shows you care. It is not a sign of disrespect.

A uniform is "us". Altering the uniform makes it less about "us" and more about "me". From the examples listed above, I'd probably put the spectrum as: Brim bending (almost entirely practical), wearing your socks all the way (oldschool, but hard to separate out the fact that it will get you noticed), Posada's pine tar (has some practical uses but needlessly makes the uniform less uniform-y), and at the far end is Rodney's tilted hat. A hat is meant to be worn straight ahead, and I'm sorry, but any argument to that contrary feels disingenous. Now, I'm absolutely willing to concede that for the younger generation, tilted is an acceptable style. BUT, that style was born from intentionally doing it "wrong". It was meant to be different from the norm. Personalizing something. Perhaps even attention seeking.

Rodney stands out on the baseball field. Maybe his antics are sincere, maybe he's indifferent to the attention, or maybe he likes the attention. I don't know and I don't care. I think a player has a right to self promote, but it's a delicate balance and sometimes it goes too far. An NFL player otherwise hidden under a helmet should have a chance to slightly distinguish themselves. NBA players paying fines so they can wear (and ultimately sell more shoes) might be a bit more of a stretch.

I don't think Rodney thought it all out and said "I'm going to disrespect the uniform". I just think the issue of respect never crossed his mine. I won't even guess whether he was thinking "I want to get noticed". My gut says he does, but it may be even more subconscious than that.

And the fact that you don't get that Jennifer Aniston was showing lack of respect is part of the problem. She wasn't disrespecting the uniform(and to be fair, that company didn't deserve respect because of the silliness of the rule and other reasons) but she was showing it lack of respect. Mind you in that particular case it was a very minor lack and it takes a really uptight tight ass to make a problem with it.

No, the point of the scene is that being passive aggressive about something you're going to enforce as a rule is a pathetic act. That goes double when you're someone with no say in the matter.

As to the autism thing--hey you got me! I'm all autism all the time--not the guy getting microscopic about inferential ideas about what is proper behavior and what isn't based on: nothing tangible whatsoever. I've had a number of jobs with uniform policies. If something's not in the policy, why do it? I don't like tucking in my shirt if I don't have to. If a job wanted me to tuck in my shirt they'd have it in the policy. If it's not in the policy and my boss asks me to tuck in my shirt, I'm not going to be like, "Well it's not in the policy so I don't have to do it." I'll tuck in my damn shirt. If they sit around hoping I get some sort of subliminal hint that "SHIRTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TUCKED IN BECAUSE IT'S PROPER" then they can eff off and I'll find another job. You know how I can tell that Rodney hasn't been asked to wear his hat differently? Because he hasn't turned it straight and he still has the job with the hat-wearing thing going on.

Likewise, long ago, when I was playing baseball at the organized level, no one gave a thought to how hats were worn. If someone wore his hat like Rodney did, maybe the coach would say something maybe he wouldn't. If he did, the "offender" would probably turn his hat straight, maybe he wouldn't. It really didn't come up because no one gave much thought to ridiculously stupid bull**** like that.

I really am surprised that the issue of race hasn't come up more. I always thought the hat sideways was an urban thing and thus the reason that boy bands in the 90s were trying to emulate it. I am surprised to hear that people think it makes someone like Rodney, a 36-year-old African American, look like a member of a boy band, who were pretty much exclusively white teens. I'm also a little surprised to hear people so eager to clarify that, although they think Rodney has a right to wear his hat that way, they think he looks like an idiot doing so. Maybe it's just not something you're used to or maybe it's just something that our society has deemed as an acceptable target of ridicule?

Yes, that's something largely at play here. Someone mentioned a line from the Wire cum Richard Price's Clockers that pointed out that very thing--a borderline racist police officer making fun of black youths for wearing their hats sideways because it wasn't "proper"

I really am surprised that the issue of race hasn't come up more. I always thought the hat sideways was an urban thing and thus the reason that boy bands in the 90s were trying to emulate it. I am surprised to hear that people think it makes someone like Rodney, a 36-year-old African American, look like a member of a boy band, who were pretty much exclusively white teens. I'm also a little surprised to hear people so eager to clarify that, although they think Rodney has a right to wear his hat that way, they think he looks like an idiot doing so. Maybe it's just not something you're used to or maybe it's just something that our society has deemed as an acceptable target of ridicule?

These stories remind me of the Red Sox prospect (Abe Alvarez I think) who some media member trashed for being disrespectful because he wore his hat at an angle. What the guy didn't bother to learn before opening his mouth was that Alvarez was blind in one eye and worse his hat like that to help his vision.

Whenever you visit a Four Seasons or Ritz Carlton hotel, you will never hear the phrase, "no problem." Never. Instead, their staff will say, "my pleasure," "with pleasure," "absolutely.". They always use positive words. They are very specifically trained to avoid the phrase, "no problem."

So, in the future, try to avoid using a very negative phrase, "no problem."

Why do I suspect that the guy who wrote this would still object to the very positive phrase "it's all good"?

We open the door for women and the elderly as a sign of respect. There is no rules saying we have to, there is no law or anyone forcing us to do this, it's just something we do as a sign of respect and common courtesy. Sure there are people who don't do that, and it doesn't mean they disrespect the group, but their actions do carry some weight when other people see it.

I hold the door for anyone in range, regardless of age and gender. So do a lot of people. If I thought about it every time, I'd probably arrive at the utilitarian value of holding it for the elderly, and for the rest as an acknowledgement of our common humanity and because the world is a difficult place, so that being aware of each other is better than not. Fwiw, I usually don't stand on the subway for the able-bodied, regardless of sex.

Note: I should have used the word lack of respect instead of disrespectful. Disrespectful implies an active action of showing lack of respect. I.E. as an atheist, if I wanted to be a dick, I would go into a church and turn all their crosses upside down, that is disrespectful and it's a moral failing.

That doesn't follow at all, that it's a 'moral failing'. It could well be pointed political action. It could, for example, be an assertion that the Catholic Church, in shielding molestors, has turned the precepts of the church upside down.

I honestly feel like Jennifer Aniston in the "pieces of flair" discussion right now.

I once got a ride home from a co-worker I didn't know at all well. I was thinking of other things and was apparently slow on the draw, and he asked me to put on my seat belt within one second of our getting into his car. A few days later he stopped by my office to tell me he was troubled by the drive. I had no idea what he was talking about so I raised an eyebrow and waited. He continued, "Jack, I just got the feeling you didn't want to put on your seat belt".

cardsafanboy, I disagree with everything you are saying. Well, except for the part where you get to tell everyone how to act. I wish I could tell people how to act during the national anthem - they just stand at attention like trained dogs staring at their master's hand waiting for the next command. This is the USA! When we are told to do something, we think of a creative way to tell them to shove it.

Doesn't "my bad" imply a lot more casual feeling than "I was wrong and I'm sorry"? When I hear it, I hear "Yup, I messed up, and that's the end of that." There are plenty of occasions where this is completely appropriate, but I do feel like that more serious occasions call for a different sort of apology.

I really am surprised, when people have a problem with "my bad" rather than "I was wrong and I'm sorry", that the issue of race doesn't come up more.

What does race have to do with either of those? I've heard "my bad" (and seen it written here) countless times by whites, or are you saying that it's a white expression only?

There may be a generational split between those two expressions, but I've never thought about any racial split. And most of the time I've heard "my bad" it was for a relatively minor offense. (coke to Darren for that point)

Apparently "my bad" originated with Manute Bol sometime in the 80's when he was apologizing for making a bad pass. It then seems to have spread to his Warriors teammates and the rest of the NBA, then to the playgrounds, and took off into the mainstream after the movie Clueless used it in 1995. Of course all this is from the first page of googling, not from any great research effort.

like has been stated any number of times before, when you perform you can wear your uniform inside out and suck on a tootsie pop during interviews and the fans are enthralled. if you stink you are a weirdo

it takes a lot to push a good player into weirdo category or a bad player into cool territory

Really, Jack? I've nearly always heard "my bad" used to mean "my error/mistake/stupidity/bad pass", as opposed to "my thoughtlessness/rudeness/etc." And the people who use in the second sense are likely to be the sort of people who earn a living ghostwriting for bureaucrats who like to say "mistakes were made".

I really am surprised that the issue of race hasn't come up more. I always thought the hat sideways was an urban thing and thus the reason that boy bands in the 90s were trying to emulate it. I am surprised to hear that people think it makes someone like Rodney, a 36-year-old African American, look like a member of a boy band, who were pretty much exclusively white teens. I'm also a little surprised to hear people so eager to clarify that, although they think Rodney has a right to wear his hat that way, they think he looks like an idiot doing so. Maybe it's just not something you're used to or maybe it's just something that our society has deemed as an acceptable target of ridicule?

I don't quite understand your point. Even if it is something that originated among blacks, are we not allowed to think that certain styles that originated or are popular among blacks look stupid or idiotic?

Well, I won't argue our experiences don't differ, but even if it's just those four, the compacting and limiting of language is to be mourned, however briefly.

...as opposed to "my thoughtlessness/rudeness/etc." And the people who use in the second sense are likely to be the sort of people who earn a living ghostwriting for bureaucrats who like to say "mistakes were made".

I have heard it routinely substituted for 'my thoughtlessness'. No recollection of whether the same is true for rudeness. Ah, 'mistakes were made'. I've always liked the antidote Orwell describes at the close of "Politics and the English Language":

I have not here been considering the literary use of language, but merely language as an instrument for expressing and not for concealing or preventing thought. Stuart Chase and others have come near to claiming that all abstract words are meaningless, and have used this as a pretext for advocating a kind of political quietism. Since you don't know what Fascism is, how can you struggle against Fascism? One need not swallow such absurdities as this, but one ought to recognize that the present political chaos is connected with the decay of language, and that one can probably bring about some improvement by starting at the verbal end. If you simplify your English, you are freed from the worst follies of orthodoxy. You cannot speak any of the necessary dialects, and when you make a stupid remark its stupidity will be obvious, even to yourself. Political language -- and with variations this is true of all political parties, from Conservatives to Anarchists -- is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind. One cannot change this all in a moment, but one can at least change one's own habits, and from time to time one can even, if one jeers loudly enough, send some worn-out and useless phrase -- some jackboot, Achilles' heel, hotbed, melting pot, acid test, veritable inferno, or other lump of verbal refuse -- into the dustbin, where it belongs.

135 - It was used for both of those definitions when I was a kid (late 80s).
Not sure if I trust my memory here as to this specific example, but I believe that this was one of a few expressions I heard/used in my neighborhood (poor to lower middle class, mostly black) but not in my school (middle class, mostly white) - things I'd uttered nonthinkingly and suddenly realize that other kids at my school didn't. (Another was "my druthers", but that had a different lineage.)
[edit: i don't mean to overstate this - it's not like people commented on it or anything or were necessarily unfamiliar with these phrases]

An incident today reminded me of this thread. I was with a friend shopping for an MLB hat (which are very popular among kids in the UK, though they don't actually follow baseball...I think they just like the way they look. For instance one store had 12 fitted Gwinnett Braves hats, and 10 Scranton Wilkes-Barre Yankees hats for £25 a pop). And of course they all wear them flat-billed and tilted. My friend picked one out, tried it on, and reached up to bend the brim...and this lady working there came running and yelled at him "those are flat for a reason!"

It was just kind of funny, Rodney catching heat for wearing a hat "improperly" and then this guy catching heat for wearing at (as far as UK retailers are concerned) "improperly". The analogy doesn't entirely stand because it probably is poor form to alter the shape of any product before you actually buy it...but I think standards of proper hat-wearing are far from inherent.

If any pushback regarding Rodney's hat stylings prevents us from experiencing a new trend as odious as the hipster/slackers choice to wear wool hats year round, I would support authority in their command and control efforts.

In a thread this pedantic, NO ONE has yet pointed out that 'disrespect' is not a m#####-f###### verb?

The colleague in [103] is absolutely right on 'no problem.' It's simply unprofessional because it's widely perceived to be; looking for logic in these kind of social norms is a fool's errand. Call it stupid all you like, in a business setting you're very likely to run into someone who feels that way eventually, so why not stick to professional diction? Why try to parse formal/informal? You can't change it.

If any pushback regarding Rodney's hat stylings prevents us from experiencing a new trend as odious as the hipster/slackers choice to wear wool hats year round, I would support authority in their command and control efforts.

Oh, God yes.

It takes every fiber of restraint in my being to not ask "what kind of moron are you?" when I see a guy wearing a wool knit cap on a 110 degree subway platform in August.

The suspicion is that people think that certain styles look stupid or idiotic because they originated or are popular among blacks. I didn't want to bring it up in this thread.

I'm told we have our swarthy brethren to thank for the heinous "bumping uglies". I for one resent the diminution of the sex act. I also dislike "junk", though I suspect white people were involved in that formation.

...I'm still patching up the bullet holes I got during the Great Disinterested War of 2013.

That made me laugh out loud.

@145: WTF is up with that? How can your brain not fry in hot, sunny weather? I just assume that wearer can't be interested in brain function.

edit: Clueless was a lot of fun. One of those movies that take you by surprise, the way Galaxy Quest did, or Dale & Tucker vs. Evil. Speaking of movies, I just caught the last part of Saving Private Ryan. I wanted to check out how Spielberg shot the other long battle scene that with D-Day brackets the film--the fight for control over the bridge-- and I noted in around 12 minutes of film at least 125 separate cuts, and a lot of those involve one or two shots of a specific action, meaning the number of different scenes he had to set up and match was ridiculous. I don't think it's often you have to start storyboarding on maps, but he must have done with the end of Ryan.

I have a lot of problems with the film, but the craft involved in putting together the battle is extraordinary.

The colleague in [103] is absolutely right on 'no problem.' It's simply unprofessional because it's widely perceived to be; looking for logic in these kind of social norms is a fool's errand. Call it stupid all you like, in a business setting you're very likely to run into someone who feels that way eventually, so why not stick to professional diction? Why try to parse formal/informal? You can't change it.

To be clear, the client I was emailing was a former bond trader, not exactly the type of person to be uptight about informal use of language. Excessive formality or obsequiousness (such as responding to a request using "with pleasure") would be more awkward in that setting. The objection my colleague raised to "no problem" was not that it was informal, but rather that it was a double-negative rather than a positive word. Responding "sure" or "will do" to a request is no more formal, but not objectionable to my colleague.

This is also a guy who once threw out another colleague's red pen in the middle of a meeting because "red is the color of losses". He's just weird.

The colleague in [103] is absolutely right on 'no problem.' It's simply unprofessional because it's widely perceived to be; looking for logic in these kind of social norms is a fool's errand. Call it stupid all you like, in a business setting you're very likely to run into someone who feels that way eventually, so why not stick to professional diction? Why try to parse formal/informal? You can't change it.

It's widely perceived to be by old farts and jackasses. They're a dog that is eating itself and their silly social norms will be gone soon. Attempts to change the way younger people talk are tantamount to screaming into the void in hopes of negotiating with death.

1. 10m prize currently offered for the development of the first, Trek-like medical tricorder.

2. Einstein@home, searching for gravity waves through a network of distributed, volunteer computers, reached petaflop speeds this year. That's new for distributed computing and will only increase as the organizing software improves. Distributed computing is now addressing medical and scientific riddles around the globe. Also, because it is distributed, the cost and downtimes are negligible. Get involved!

3. The billionaire space tourist Dennis Tito is aiming to have a married couple orbit Mars and return in 2018.

.

10 Really Good Movies that Haven't Been Seen Enough:

1. About a Boy
2. Dale & Tucker vs. Evil
3. House of Games
4. Waking Life
5. Cash Back
6. The Stunt Man
7. The Upside of Anger
8. The Eagleman Stag (stop-motion short. Never seen anything like it.)
9. It's Such a Beautiful Day (3 animated films by the same creator/director combined in 2012 to make one, coherent film).
10. Autumn

Speaking of movies, I just caught the last part of Saving Private Ryan. I wanted to check out how Spielberg shot the other long battle scene that with D-Day brackets the film--the fight for control over the bridge-- and I noted in around 12 minutes of film at least 125 separate cuts, and a lot of those involve one or two shots of a specific action, meaning the number of different scenes he had to set up and match was ridiculous. I don't think it's often you have to start storyboarding on maps, but he must have done with the end of Ryan.

A damn sight better than the earlier attack on the German machine-gun post. You can't tell WHAT the heck is going in that scene.

Also,

9. It's Such a Beautiful Day (3 animated films by the same creator/director combined in 2012 to make one, coherent film).

The objection my colleague raised to "no problem" was not that it was informal, but rather that it was a double-negative rather than a positive word. Responding "sure" or "will do" to a request is no more formal, but not objectionable to my colleague.

This is also a colleague who once threw out another colleague's pen in the middle of a meeting because it was a red pen, and "red is the color of losses". He's just a bizarre guy.

Okay, well, that additional information has me in a bit of an awkward spot. His opinions aren't consistent or well-formed. But the underlying principle that those who are highly trained in being respectful don't use 'no problem' (or 'yep' or 'gotcha' or 'I got your back bro') is still true if not for the reason your colleague thinks it is.

well, it does change over time. "You're welcome" at some point was probably seen as unprofessional.

I'm sure that's true, but my point is there's no rhyme or reason behind it. If one wants to be well-thought of in professional settings, one should undertake to understand and adhere to the current social norms of professionalism, regardless of one's own opinions on the wisdom behind them. Which is why...

It wasn't once. Now it is. Been added to the dictionary and everything. That's language for ya. Get with the times, or all the kids are going to disrespect you for your old-fartism.

Doesn't move my needle much. You can be right about it being a word, you still run the risk of grating on an old fart like me by using it.

edit: Clueless was a lot of fun. One of those movies that take you by surprise, the way Galaxy Quest did, or Dale & Tucker vs. Evil.

In terms of what I like to call "movies a whole lot funnier than they have any right to be" I was blown away at how good the Ice Cube/Chris Tucker 1995 comedy "Friday" was. I stumbled across that during a late-90s "Bernie Mack Marathon" (don't ask) and thought it a great film on several levels, funny, sure, but also with some sociological poignancy.

At lunch on Friday, someone had a fit because the waitress brought him a pink pen - he claimed it wasn't "macho" enough for him. Amazed at his feelings, the vehemence of his response, and that a person would use the word "macho" unironically.

I didn't like Waking Life. Do think Friday is underrated (which is not to say unpopular).

Of course disrespect is a verb.

On House of Games, I'm still kind of amazed to think of Mamet and Jon Katz being close friends and having collaborated on the story which that screenplay was based on.

I'm certainly on board with About a Boy and The Upside of Anger, but share Der K's take on Waking Life. Though this may be because I was forced to watch it by a friend who was at the time his pretentious psuedo-philosopher phase. Not that I wasn't in my own pretentious teenage phase...it just didn't have a lot to do with philosophy.
Friday I saw at a friend's birthday party. I think we were likely 13 or 14. We had a double bill of Friday and Mall Rats. I have since seen Mall Rats many, many times (including once 3 times in one day...first vanilla, then with commentary, then dubbed in French)...but I've yet to revisit Friday which I also enjoyed.

In addition to About a Boy, High Fidelity and Fever Pitch (settle down, the Colin Firth version I mean) are also movies based on Nick Hornby books I really liked.

An Education should have been right in my wheelhouse, and I did enjoy it, but it was somehow a bit of a let down considering.

I've always thought Starter for 10 could easily have been a Hornby adapted movie, and it has long been a guilty pleasure of mine. Though I think I'd get pleasure out of anything James McAvoy is in. Even that awkwardly phrased sentence!

I should add that on the subject of under-appreciated movies, I'd slap High Fidelity on that list, not so much because it flies under the radar, but because I really do think it is that great.

I think these things tend to e self policing in any event. If the variance is enough to disturb unit cohesion (why we have uniforms in the first place), his teammates will take care of it. Reminds me of the Showalter/Griffey dustup.

Either I'm going blind, or IMDb doesn't list such a film. That's not the one about the guy(s) who can stop time, is it?

Edit: Ah -- Cashback, one word, though I could've sworn it didn't show up in that form when I tried that the first time, so perhaps I am indeed going blind. At any rate, yes, I liked this one quite a bit.

10. Autumn

The British zombie movie? Presumably not. Though of course I liked it, zombie movie aficionado that I am.

Perhaps my fondness for rotoscope colored my memory of Waking Life. I checked out a clip of it at random on youtube since no one else seems to like it here, and I did cringe.

Tried Friday after the rec's, above, and just couldn't enjoy it. The first ten minutes are Ice Cube mugging over a failed cereal breakfast followed by icky, smelly dump jokes, then far too much Chris Tucker, who has exactly two line deliveries. Just not my cup of meat.

Gotta say, every time I see Edward Norton in something, my repsect for his talent grows. He held Stone together, and Primal Fear, which is an ordinary Richard Gere vehicle that even swallows Laura Linney's formidable talents (and buries Frances McDormand under a mop of drab, greasy brown hair), only shines when he's on-screen. He doesn't have DeNiro's presence, or Pacino's hyperkinetic manner, and doesn't have that thing that makes a huge star, but he's one hell of an actor. Is there anyone better these days?

10. Autumn

The British zombie movie? Presumably not. Though of course I liked it, zombie movie aficionado that I am.

Yes indeed. Mind, I wasn't aiming for great films, just thought it would be fun to mention and then in turn learn of those films that fall through the cracks precisely because they're good, not great (which tends to get our attention even if they're badly released), and either don't have stars, or don't get marketed well, or studio politics and finances cause them to skip theaters entirely... I thought Stone, for example, had too much star power to go on the list. Am I wrong in thinking it was reasonably widely seen by people who care about film?

As for Autumn, I thought it was a lovely little, character-driven chamber piece (though the Carradine cameo was jarring. Can Carradine appearing in a film ever be more than a form of stunt casting?), finding invention in the nooks and crannies of a very worn genre, though the fatigued chemistry between the romantic leads cost it a shot at genre greatness. I still think there's a ton of room for straight zombie flicks. Dead Set was a solid horror-thriller. The 28's are exciting and inventive, and I thought their focus on character was what made them so bloody good.

What do you think of Warm Bodies?

Not gef, but I found it pleasant, but uninspired. The leads were charming, but it wasn't otherwise engaging.

I'm still (pleasantly) stunned by the news that we may get to Mars before the end of the decade. Oh, and we cured diabetes in a dog. Through gene therapy. Cured it.

Speaking of movies, I just caught the last part of Saving Private Ryan. I wanted to check out how Spielberg shot the other long battle scene that with D-Day brackets the film--the fight for control over the bridge-- and I noted in around 12 minutes of film at least 125 separate cuts, and a lot of those involve one or two shots of a specific action, meaning the number of different scenes he had to set up and match was ridiculous. I don't think it's often you have to start storyboarding on maps, but he must have done with the end of Ryan.A damn sight better than the earlier attack on the German machine-gun post. You can't tell WHAT the heck is going in that scene.

Now that you mention it, it's the weakest action in the film. We get very little sense of space, or why the squad had to attack in the costly way they did. Since the squad fragmenting and some of the later plot relies so heavily on the results of the assault on the machine gun nest (and especially the idea that the deaths were unnecessary, leading to Captain Miller revealing his humanness, which in turns leads to his death [at least in Spielbergese it does]), Spielberg's failure to establish a sense of space and where everyone is in space, which then makes it impossible to follow the action or make the action meaningful, is a huge mistake. (I also think the sheer luck that kills the US soldiers is a bad narrative move. It looks like a grenade gets thrown, which the German soldier quickly retreives and throws back, killing the Americans. Dumb luck, but then Miller gets blamed for the decision to attack the nest. Better, narratively, to hang the deaths around his neck directly because of his specific decision, and not the length of a grenade fuse.)

Also,

9. It's Such a Beautiful Day (3 animated films by the same creator/director combined in 2012 to make one, coherent film).
Don Hertzfeldt is brilliant.

You said it. It's not common to find someone who's heard of him--can you rec any other animators/films? I've just gotten back into indy animation after 20 years and I'm amazed at some of what's being done, but I don't really know what/who to look for.

Gotta say, every time I see Edward Norton in something, my repsect for his talent grows. He held Stone together, and Primal Fear, which is an ordinary Richard Gere vehicle that even swallows Laura Linney's formidable talents (and buries Frances McDormand under a mop of drab, greasy brown hair), only shines when he's on-screen. He doesn't have DeNiro's presence, or Pacino's hyperkinetic manner, and doesn't have that thing that makes a huge star, but he's one hell of an actor. Is there anyone better these days?

In my university dorm Edward Norton was nicknamed "the finest actor of his generation". After a while none of us could remember why we did that, or if it was a genuine or ironic sentiment...but by gum we stuck to it every time his name came up.

Haven't seen Warm Bodies. And won't, till it's on DVD. Not only am I too cheap to even think about going to the cinema these days DVDs (much more than VHS ever did) have completely spoiled me as a viewer. If we had a 2nd-run (read: dirt-cheap) theatre here, I suspect I'd feel somewhat differently, but we don't. And haven't in the 11-plus years I've lived here.

A) It's cheaper to see a movie in Nottingham than it was where I used to live (Toronto or Regina)
and
B) Since I'm no longer 20, most of my friends aren't in school and have real jobs. So I often find myself with nothing to do on a Friday afternoon, so I often go see if there are any good new releases, and catch the noon show. There's nothing quite like watching a movie by yourself in an empty theatre.

I went to the movies all the time back in North Little Rock, where we had a 10-screen 2nd-run place about 5 miles from my house that charged only $1 for most screenings (50 cents on Tuesdays, $1.50 Friday & Saturday nights). At those prices, I'd basically go see anything, including teen romantic comedies that I'd never have rented in 100 years.

The closest thing we had here charged $4.50, which included a coke (that I couldn't drink, thanks to Crohn's) & small popcorn (that I couldn't eat, thanks to Crohn's). I went there 3 or 4 times, but that's it, & besides it's now been gone for probably at least 7 years.

I still think there's a ton of room for straight zombie flicks. Dead Set was a solid horror-thriller. The 28's are exciting and inventive, and I thought their focus on character was what made them so bloody good.

Dammit. Just checked, & Dead Set isn't available for rental or streaming over here, as far as I can tell. *sigh*

28 Days Later is the film that, along a few months later with the Dawn of the Dead "re-imagining" (2 movies I actually saw on the big screen ... a personal-record 3 times in the case of the latter) ignited my passion for zombie flicks. I've seen since, god help me, well over 250 of the things.

can you rec any other animators/films? I've just gotten back into indy animation after 20 years and I'm amazed at some of what's being done, but I don't really know what/who to look for.

I've been following Hertzfeldt since seeing "Ah, L'Amour" at Spike & Mike fest 15 or so years ago. A talent worth watching, no doubt.
Anyway, I'm flattered to be asked, but I don't know much about it beyond "go see stuff that looks interesting." If you're just getting back into animation, you could do far worse than to track down the Oscar-nominated animated shorts, now that they're so much easier to find & watch. Always a high-quality grab bag.
I can tell you that Waltz with Bashir - an animated documentary, which is a form I'd never heard of before - was by far the best movie of its year. And Sita Sings the Blues was also wonderful and inventive. [One of my luckiest filmgoing weekends ever was seeing these on consecutive days as part of the SF Int'l Animation Festival]
And my all-time favorite might be "The Big Snit," although a big hunk of that might just be nostalgia or sentimental value, at this point.

I'll wade in on "No Problem". It has its uses. "Could you hand me that hammer?", "No problem" is perfectly fine. If I ask for extra service, and you tell me it will be no problem, I'm fine with that. If you tell me it will be a problem, that's fine too. ("No, we can't substitute the shrimp cocktail for the house salad.") Where I find the use rankling is when I thank someone for waiting on me, whether counter or restaurant or whatever. I don't want to hear that it was "no problem" for you, it was your job and it should be no problem (unless I was being a dick, which I conciously try to avoid being). I want to hear that I was welcome and would be welcome back in your place of business. "No problem" makes it sound like the employee is the focal point of the transaction, not the customer. When I provide service to others in my job, I tell them that they are welcome, they are welcome to come back to me again, not that it was "no problem" for me.

@183: thanks. I'll check out the titles you mentioned, and using the Oscar nominations as a place to start makes perfect sense. That also made me think of googling 'animation awards' and apparently there's something called an "Annie", given out by the International Animated Film Society. There are also the British Animation Awards, which might mention stuff the Oscars miss.

I have to put in an Amazon order tonight and I'll be looking especially for a book that gets technical about all the different kinds of animation out there. I'd love to know more. Even Paperman, with its bland plot, was thrilling for the greys the animators were able to get.

Dammit. Just checked, & Dead Set isn't available for rental or streaming over here, as far as I can tell. *sigh*

At the risk of firing up a 5000 post thread, when films are unavailable and you don't have the option of giving the distributor your money, do you have an objection to going to certain websites and watching them stream, or downloading them for later, non-profit viewing? Fwiw, the second half of season three of TWD was awfully weak until episode 12, which did some of the many things the series should have been doing (and given how it also lets you shoot contemporaneously with two crews, I'm really surprised they haven't done more of).

I read about half of the comments, so I apologize if I am rehashing anything, but has nobody noticed that the cap being off to the side is exactly causing a shadow to be cast on his left eye? In other words, he has the hat positioned to keep the lights/Sun out of his eyes.

And as was alluded to much earlier, anybody with a problem regarding this hat better be writing letters to the HOF demanding the ouster of Sunny Jim Bottomley. Maybe Rodney is actually really old school. Or showing respect for an old timer.

Make-Out with Violence is about as offbeat as it comes, especially considering it was made over (IIRC) several years by a bunch of kids in Nashville with a budget that could probably be measured in the hundreds. I loved it.

Great synthpop soundtrack, too. The number of soundtracks I've bought in my life for full price can be counted on the fingers on one hand, but this one I happily ponied up for. (The band consists to a considerable degree of the filmmakers.)

At the risk of firing up a 5000 post thread, when films are unavailable and you don't have the option of giving the distributor your money, do you have an objection to going to certain websites and watching them stream, or downloading them for later, non-profit viewing?

Wouldn't bother me at all, assuming of course that the other conditions you cite are in place.

This is a combination of grumpy-old-man syndrome and racism. Often the first leads to the latter, but not always.

The fear that people have for self-expression baffles me. This is ALMOST as ridiculous as the 'no-beards, no-long hair' thing that the Yankees do. (The hair thign is worse because at least the uniform part doesn't force the player to follow the arbitrary rule son their own tiem as well.)

I read about half of the comments, so I apologize if I am rehashing anything, but has nobody noticed that the cap being off to the side is exactly causing a shadow to be cast on his left eye? In other words, he has the hat positioned to keep the lights/Sun out of his eyes.

I don't care how Rodney wears his hat, but a baseball cap, when worn straight, is designed to keep the light out of both eyes.