I mean, I didn't get the sexist/racist complaints, and I didn't post screeds of hate on social media, but I still didn't like it. My overall reaction was meh.

There does appear to be a valid tactic by studios these days to use these extreme views for their own gain. Those behind the Ghostbusters remake lapped up the tiny number of people complaining about their crappy movie for sexist reasons, and I think there is a desire to use the internet trolls as a convenient diversion from anyone pointing out the genuine flaws in these movies.

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Well I had a long follow up to that that got eaten but my idea is not HAHA TLJ IS NO 1 IT MUST BE GOOD but rather that the idea that the entire franchise has been killed/destroyed or that no true star wars fan liked it is crap. I here a lot of "well all my friends liked it" or "well all my friends hated it", which is anecdotal and drives me nuts. Hell I thought the new Jurassic World was one of the worst films of ALL TIME but I don'y deny people loved it. Anyway i will post more later.

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Well I had a long follow up to that that got eaten but my idea is not HAHA TLJ IS NO 1 IT MUST BE GOOD but rather that the idea that the entire franchise has been killed/destroyed or that no true star wars fan liked it is crap. I here a lot of "well all my friends liked it" or "well all my friends hated it", which is anecdotal and drives me nuts. Hell I thought the new Jurassic World was one of the worst films of ALL TIME but I don'y deny people loved it. Anyway i will post more later.

I don't think the franchise is dead at all. Lots of people loved the movie. Lots of people love crappy movies. That very list of DVD movies you posted included 50 shades 2, Jurassic World 2, Ready Player one and Justice League in its top 20.

I can only say that my enthusiasm for all things Star Wars is now almost completely dead, only being slightly ignited after Rogue One.

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There does appear to be a valid tactic by studios these days to use these extreme views for their own gain. Those behind the Ghostbusters remake lapped up the tiny number of people complaining about their crappy movie for sexist reasons, and I think there is a desire to use the internet trolls as a convenient diversion from anyone pointing out the genuine flaws in these movies.

I think you're high. I don't think that the studios lapped up Leslie Jones' massive harassment, nor did they lap up Tran's. The idea that it was a tiny amount of people is probably accurate, but it was an incredibly harassing, abusive group of internet asshats, and in no way did the studios think 'yes, that's what I want'.

Rian Johnson might not be to your liking, or his vision of Star Wars might not be, but let's be real - he didn't set out to make a movie you didn't like. It wasn't plagued by reshoots and confusion like Solo was. (or for that matter, TFA). They weren't counting on MRA assholes to shit all over their movie so that they could 'prove' that it was a good movie or deflect blame. They legitimately thought it was a good movie, as did a vast majority of the critics, and from the box office a pretty good amount of fans. That you didn't like it doesn't mean there's a conspiracy to discredit criticism. Nor does my pointing out that Russian trolls amplified the criticism of those same MRA assholes, the same way they do with any thing that white nationalist incel manbabies do. (Watch them do the same thing to Gillette).

If you have criticisms, awesome. I have plenty of every single star wars, because they are easy to criticize. Here's the thing about how people work - chances are good that you made the decision to like or not like it based nothing on rational flaws, but entirely on how it made you feel, and then you justified those feelings with rationalizations later. And that's fine! But that means the same deadly flaw that you point out won't matter that much to someone who liked it, because they liked it, and the small things are let slide.

My theory is that people who had a very specific view of what Luke was supposed to do and be were hugely disappointed, and that colored their entire experience. I'm sure there are other people out there with other views, but I think the frission of Luke not being the heroic savior literally did attack their personal worldview, and that hurt them personally.

Also, Luke drinking gross blue titmilk was funny as hell.

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I think you're high. I don't think that the studios lapped up Leslie Jones' massive harassment, nor did they lap up Tran's. The idea that it was a tiny amount of people is probably accurate, but it was an incredibly harassing, abusive group of internet asshats, and in no way did the studios think 'yes, that's what I want'.

It absolutely distracted all discussion away from just how bad that movie was, and I think it would be pretty naive to think that marketing teams aren't going to use that to their advantage. I'm not saying they encouraged it or wanted it, but the narrative around the Ghostbusters abuse was easily turned to benefit them, and were twisted to something that didn't fit reality. The same thing with TLJ where stories were hyped up and pushed to promote a narrative that pushed any form of criticism to be viewed as automatically 'trollish'

I didn't like the movie very much and I could sit and write a huge post of very rational reasons for why I don't think it is a good movie. I'm not going to do that as I'm sure everyone has heard them all before and I don't see much benefit. I also accept that liking a movie doesn't have to be rational, and a lot of people have different tastes and qualifiers as to what they view as entertaining.

I will say that, Luke drinking alien milk shall forever be in the trophy room of terrible Star Wars moments, in a cabinet with Jar Jar treading in poo and 'I don't like sand'

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It absolutely distracted all discussion away from just how bad that movie was,

The movie wasn't all that bad.

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

and I think it would be pretty naive to think that marketing teams aren't going to use that to their advantage. I'm not saying they encouraged it or wanted it, but the narrative around the Ghostbusters abuse was easily turned to benefit them, and were twisted to something that didn't fit reality.

How did it not fit reality? People being chased off the internet for actually being a black woman didn't happen?

I know it's sacrilege to hear, but there are a pretty good chunk of people who liked the new Ghostbusters, and some who even loved it.

10 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The same thing with TLJ where stories were hyped up and pushed to promote a narrative that pushed any form of criticism to be viewed as automatically 'trollish'﻿﻿

Again, citation needed. I mean seriously, you had literal foreign governments doing PRECISELY THAT THING, and you're saying that it didn't happen or it was hyped up. Again, we have an actor whose crime was her being in the movie being harassed off the internet.

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Compared to what? For a modern blockbuster its maybe par for the course, considering how bad most are. Compared to the original Ghostbusters movie its a travesty

Quote

How did it not fit reality? People being chased off the internet for actually being a black woman didn't happen?

The Ghostbusters trailer was one of the most disliked in youtube history. The narrative put out by the studios was that this was a bunch of women haters promoting hate and that the comments section was a cesspit of misogyny. It turned out that the numbers of comments that were even remotely sexist were utterly tiny, but that wasn't enough to stop a good story.

Quote

Again, citation needed. I mean seriously, you had literal foreign governments doing PRECISELY THAT THING, and you're saying that it didn't happen or it was hyped up. Again, we have an actor whose crime was her being in the movie being harassed off the internet.

You admitted yourself that the numbers of trolls sending abuse and writing rubbish about feminism and sjws is tiny, but that wouldn't be the impression you'd get from reading the media around the movie. All I'm saying is that that abuse was taking advantage of and turned around to benefit the movie.

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Compared to what? For a modern blockbuster its maybe par for the course, considering how bad most are. Compared to the original Ghostbusters movie its a travesty

Compared to the level of online hate that it got. Colin Farrell wasn't required to run from the universe after the shitty Total Recall remake. Robocop didn't require Kinnaman to die in an internet fire.

15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

The Ghostbusters trailer was one of the most disliked in youtube history.

Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about the movie, not some random thing about the trailer and how insane people were for their trolling and massive hatred because of a trailer for a movie they hadn't seen yet. Sure, fine, whatever.

15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

You admitted yourself that the numbers of trolls sending abuse and writing rubbish about feminism and sjws is tiny, but that wouldn't be the impression you'd get from reading the media around the movie. All I'm saying is that that abuse was taking advantage of and turned around to benefit the movie.

The number of ANY commenters compared to the people who watch are incredibly tiny. My point was that the abusers are a minority of the people who watched the film in general. As far as a comment section goes? As I said above, they were quite vocal and quite prevalent.

I fail to see how that abuse benefited the movie. Again, citation needed.

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Oh, sorry, I thought we were talking about the movie, not some random thing about the trailer and how insane people were for their trolling and massive hatred because of a trailer for a movie they hadn't seen yet. Sure, fine, whatever.﻿

Its not random, its an example of studios twisting a story to benefit them. When Sony come out to defend their movie, not from bad reviews but from internet trolls you can see why they are doing it:

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Yeah if you think the harassment of Jones or Tran actually had anything to do with the films at all, well, please throw yourself into a volcano.

And I want to state that any user score for any film on RT is easily manipulated. I could review bomb anything in that site in an hour or two and I’m not exactly captain haxor. I can’t speak for other sites like IMDb, but RT is fairly worthless when it comes to that stuff.

I mean, I didn't get the sexist/racist complaints, and I didn't post screeds of hate on social media, but I still didn't like it. My overall reaction was meh.

Well that’s great! And no one is saying it isn’t possible to dislike the film and have valid criticisms. So when they talk about sexist, racist trolling, you can rest safe in the knowledge that it’s not you being referred to.

And I’m serious too, I am sure you do have valid criticisms. As do many others. Yet as soon as trolls are mentioned people become defensive with their “Not all men critics” spiel.

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Well that’s great! And no one is saying it isn’t possible to dislike the film and have valid criticisms. So when they talk about sexist, racist trolling, you can rest safe in the knowledge that it’s not you being referred to.

And I’m serious too, I am sure you do have valid criticisms. As do many others. Yet as soon as trolls are mentioned people become defensive with their “Not all men critics” spiel.

The quote I took from the previous thread responded to a comment about a poor ranking for TLJ with "Russian trolls" - as though such trolls made up the majority of the negative blowback.

I think various articles from blogs and news outlets, as well as forums, Twitter etc., show that the negativity is made up of a complex mix of reasons and people.