The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!

Member

Just wanted to thank all the people who talked about how much they've pulled in from herbing since the expansion started, it's been an incredible boon for this returning player. Going from zero to nearly 200k over a couple weeks just questing has been awesome. I'm sure I could have gotten way more than that, but I don't see any reason to go crazy grinding.

In the first few days of the expansion, I was pretty happy with how the Pelters went from obnoxious little shits to figuring out they ignore targeting whoever is right next to them, though it led to awkward moments of tanking them by AFKing a few feet away. Then one random day they said fuck that and went to just targeting whomever wherever and became the worst assholes in the game. And have a Disengage. Because fuck you.

Every time something leaps away from a pull, I question the decision to not main Blood DK.

For the most part, I agree with this sentiment entirely. If you have the group of people to do it, farming keys is absolutely absurdly efficient and it has created this weird situation of a lot of group finder people expecting 2/3 chest groups for their keys rather than, y'know, just running them (which makes trying to pug things as a tank awkward). It is a large part of why I want to try and get GAF runs going since it sounds like for many people getting any +2-+4s done (and maybe an end of week 5-6 out of timer) is a huge step up from their normal. And, well, I too want to be spamming runs.

It may be too late to undo that damage but I really wish something was in place that curbed the whole "two chest" as a minimum expectation that sort of crept up.

Not a ranged, unless I grind my ass off I guess?, but I should be around if you need any filler melee DPS. ~860-ish on Havoc DH (cleared for the week but better geared and all), ~850ish on an uncleared Frost DK. scy#1745 either way.

Member

Just wanted to thank all the people who talked about how much they've pulled in from herbing since the expansion started, it's been an incredible boon for this returning player. Going from zero to nearly 200k over a couple weeks just questing has been awesome. I'm sure I could have gotten way more than that, but I don't see any reason to go crazy grinding.

Member

Not a ranged, unless I grind my ass off I guess?, but I should be around if you need any filler melee DPS. ~860-ish on Havoc DH (cleared for the week but better geared and all), ~850ish on an uncleared Frost DK. scy#1745 either way.

I ultimately RARELY put in any effort to maximize gold made from crafting professions...I think that if I factor in my personal style (minimal work possible in this game, lol), I should be getting two gathering profs for maximum cash.

Member

My guild is running EN tonight starting at 7:00pm US Central, and despite numerous attempts at recruiting, we're still short on DPS (ranged specifically) of all the things.

We'll need probably 2 extra ranged DPS to get our composition right. We're on Emerald Dream and we'll be PUG'ing the extra DPS. If anyone on Horde NA is looking to run some of EN normal tonight (or even join our guild!) let me know!

It's been annoying having inconsistent/unreliable DPS and having to re-educate people that join us each time we run it, so having a couple good people who are chill, patient, and can put up some numbers would be really helpful!

I ultimately RARELY put in any effort to maximize gold made from crafting professions...I think that if I factor in my personal style (minimal work possible in this game, lol), I should be getting two gathering profs for maximum cash.

Member

I ultimately RARELY put in any effort to maximize gold made from crafting professions...I think that if I factor in my personal style (minimal work possible in this game, lol), I should be getting two gathering profs for maximum cash.

The bubble is absolutely about to burst for herbalism and most other gathering professions due to the Blood of Sargeras vendor. But Enchants are about to become affordable yet still profitable as the mats to make them flood the market from people clearing wings of LFR and getting upgrades to DE, on top of the mats you can get form the BoS vendor. No more 20k neck enchants, more like 5k which more people will be willing to drop on less-than-permanent progression gear.

Member

In the first few days of the expansion, I was pretty happy with how the Pelters went from obnoxious little shits to figuring out they ignore targeting whoever is right next to them, though it led to awkward moments of tanking them by AFKing a few feet away. Then one random day they said fuck that and went to just targeting whomever wherever and became the worst assholes in the game. And have a Disengage. Because fuck you.

Every time something leaps away from a pull, I question the decision to not main Blood DK.

both pelters and those hunter mobs in Halls of Valor have a disengage and I swear to god those fuckers save the cooldown for when death grip was just used.

our first neltharion's run last night had a wipe because one of those little shits jumped backwards right into a Tectus who decided to aggro and barf crystals all over everybody.

but yeah the time has come for us to dust off our CC tools and actually use them. Even if only for that one pull. I don't even know for sure what my group HAS...BM hunter, ret paladin, mistweaver monk, cat durid. Monk can sap things, I know that at least.

Member

So for level 3 starlight you need 20 dust. The problem is that you don't know this from the start and the dust is a grey item so what so you normally do with grey items? You vendor them. So when people finally get to that point they scramble for the dust but at level 2 it's hard to get the grey items. People go on the ah to get it faster because they want rank 3.

Member

So for level 3 starlight you need 20 dust. The problem is that you don't know this from the start and the dust is a grey item so what so you normally do with grey items? You vendor them. So when people finally get to that point they scramble for the dust but at level 2 it's hard to get the grey items. People go on the ah to get it faster because they want rank 3.

Member

A grey that sells for 30g on the AH because herbalists need it for a quest.

I grant you that they're not quite as awesome as they seem... but 150g per node is pretty cool for something as plentiful as roses have been.
If you regret your decision you can relearn enchanting and get back to your current skill level for 800g.

Fuck, I wish I'd done it a few weeks ago instead of now. I've quested so much to do my remaining zones (Highmountain and Suramar), I probably would have picked up a ton of herbs. Now I'm done them. Like I just got my fourth Pillar of Creation a month late. LOL. And Broken Isles Pathfinder Part One an hour ago.

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.

I don't know where you guys have time to farm herbs. I have my hands full in between AP quests and/Mythic+. I pick up herbs when I'm out doing stuff but otherwise I have other things to worry about than maxing Aethril.

Member

So for level 3 starlight you need 20 dust. The problem is that you don't know this from the start and the dust is a grey item so what so you normally do with grey items? You vendor them. So when people finally get to that point they scramble for the dust but at level 2 it's hard to get the grey items. People go on the ah to get it faster because they want rank 3.

Member

Honestly, the problem with Alchemy is simple, and it is the same problem they had at the start of either MoP or WoD (can't remember). The distribution of materials is totally idiotic, and the materials are too scarce (2nd point will be fixed in 7.1 so I won't bother addressing it). Look at something like Cata flasks and potions. The flasks cost 8 of 2 herbs each, and 8 additional easy to get materials. Potions cost 1 of each herb. So at base level the flaskot material ratio is 8:1. In Legion, flasks are 7 starlight and 10x2 herbs, while potions are 2 starlight and 4x2 herbs. That is a 3.5:1 starlight ratio, and a 2.5:1 herb ratio, which is idiotic. In a raid tier with 7 bosses, you use 14 potions in one night and 1 or 2 flasks if you never wipe. A 7:1 herb ratio at the WORST is what it should be. We have been using combat potions to boost DPS since TBC, they are an awesome and fun addition to the game that adds some depth into a game that just took a whole bunch away from a lot of classes, please keep them as reasonably easy to obtain. And if you really want to lessen the importance of combat potions, making them prohibitively expensive is NOT the way to do it. I've been in normal PUGs that will kick people who don't flask/pot, and I know many people in guilds just clearing heroic EN now that will bench a raider if they don't flask/pot. Sure, you don't need to in order to do the content, but blizzard has spent 5 expansions creating the image that you aren't serious unless you flask and pot, and that isn't gonna go away.

Just reduce pots to 1 starlight and 2x2 herbs, it won't solve everything but it is a quick fix that will help a lot with at least herb ratios. It is the same idiotic thing they did in WoD making pots cost like a bunch of fish to make, and they fixed that pretty quickly. This needs a fix too. I personally have plenty of gold, and have no issues buying my own potions and flasks, hell I flask for random heroics now. But that doesn't change the fact that flasks and potions are fun, and shouldn't be prohibitively expensive for no reason.

Banned

So I found a random 90 boost on one of my alt accounts and created a warrior as I haven't played that class since BC. I've transferred him over to my main account but I'm intrigued by the class and how they play now.

I know you can't just draw a line in the sand and say X class is best but what are the comparisons between druid and warrior? In super tempted to level this guy because a) the class sounds interesting b) I love the look of plate and c) there's only one other plate wearer in our guild raid and I'd like loot.

Member

I've been in normal PUGs that will kick people who don't flask/pot, and I know many people in guilds just clearing heroic EN now that will bench a raider if they don't flask/pot. Sure, you don't need to in order to do the content, but blizzard has spent 5 expansions creating the image that you aren't serious unless you flask and pot, and that isn't gonna go away.

This right here is why I plan on staying in small/casual guilds for raiding. I don't really care if I never touch mythic difficulty. I do NOT have the time to farm gold/mats to buy or craft tons of consumables for every time I want to raid.

I'm just back to the game since BC. Do tanks also take flasks and pots? I'm pretty exclusively prot specced and I'm genuinely curious.

Yeah, I usually keep Agility flasks (usually just leftover Draenics for stuff I outgear) and Stamina flasks otherwise. Haven't used much in tank pots but also some leftover DPS pots and some higher end ones if needed.

Member

This right here is why I plan on staying in small/casual guilds for raiding. I don't really care if I never touch mythic difficulty. I do NOT have the time to farm gold/mats to buy or craft tons of consumables for every time I want to raid.

I'm just back to the game since BC. Do tanks also take flasks and pots? I'm pretty exclusively prot specced and I'm genuinely curious.

Member

This right here is why I plan on staying in small/casual guilds for raiding. I don't really care if I never touch mythic difficulty. I do NOT have the time to farm gold/mats to buy or craft tons of consumables for every time I want to raid.

I'm just back to the game since BC. Do tanks also take flasks and pots? I'm pretty exclusively prot specced and I'm genuinely curious.

Luckily, tank pots at least are generally less expensive since less people use them and the market is smaller. You can definitely get away with only using healing pots though, almost a 0% chance a group will kick their tank because they aren't using armor pots. Flasking is still looked at as "necessary" for tanks, but often you flask your DPS stat, so str for pally. The way tanking is now, I don't find stamina flasks as useless because nothing will ever burst me down, but that is as a bear so it may be different for others. Flasks hopefully will normalize more, and while it is very expensive, you can at least go alchemy for a 2 hour flask duration, and 1.5k gold for 2 hour flask that persists through death is much more manageable to finance than 400g single use pots that you are expected to use 2 of per fight... At least once you get your followers to 850 it is pretty easy to pull in ~1500g per gold mission.

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!

Naa. I would guess November, but it depends on whether or nor there's going to be any serious class balance/changes being made or if it's strictly content. As it is, almost every class change on PTR is just tooltip updates to reflect live hotfixes, so if they decide to push some real changes to PTR that will push the live date back.

If it's just for tanking, play through both artifacts and see which you like more. Ignore pain is no longer stupid OP, I haven't run with too many bears but they seem fine. Some gaffers have said bears single target damage is really low though. Druid also has the bonus of 4 specs, and Resto is a strong healer right now.

Edit: I was set on leveling a bear as my alt, played through artifact and a few quests and didn't love it. Played the blood dk artifact and a few quests and was like hell yea this is awesome. So yea just test out both and see which one suits you.

I've played a good deal of Druid and Warrior both as tank so I'll offer my personal insight. As a qualifier, Druid is my main so it has better gear and much more play time. Both tanks have their pros and cons in my opinion.

- Warrior pros: Very functional tank, the fact that ignore pain works on both magic and physical damage is nice, and Ignore Pain is very strong even after the changes. The AoE stun they get in shockwave is great, especially for 5man content. Their damage reduction cooldowns are pretty nice and varied, artifact ability is a bit clunky but still good, and spell reflect when you get the artifact trait is super nice. Mobility is amazing and has no equal. They get several DPS CDs and abilities to add to group damage, and can do solid AoE and ST DPS.
- Warrior cons: You have absolutely no "actual" self healing (Victory Rush is not nearly good enough), and as such have no true self sustain. On other tanks, if your healer dies you can often do enough to keep yourself up, but as a warrior your HP is a ticking clock that will run out eventually and you cannot change this. Mostly impacts me in world content, because Ignore Pain will always let 10% of damage through, any big world mob that does more than 15% of your HP in damage every 30 seconds will eventually kill you without outside interference so there are theoretical limits to your self sustain and soloability. You don't really have a great "oh shit I just got spiked to 10% life" ability, Last Stand is fine but 3 min CD is pretty long, otherwise it is just "put up Ignore Pain and hope that is enough", and Shield Wall and Last Stand just have kind of long CDs for what they do in general. And last con is playstyle, at least defensively. Ignore Pain is always the answer, your entire character is based around building up to an IP and using it, so for me it gets a little one-note. But with CDs and Shockwave and Spell Reflection this is a minor point. Final con is that even after the nerf, warrior is looked at as one of if not the strongest tanks, meaning future nerfs are always a fear.

- Bear pros: I think Bear has one of the more elegant active mitigation systems in the game. Especially once you get some of your gold traits plus Guardian of Elune talent, you have a LOT of freedom with how you mitigate. Lots of physical damage coming in? Stack ironfurs. Magic happening? As a bear you have on demand 30% magic damage reduction. Just took a big damage spike? Frenzied Regen heals you for 50% (plus talents) of the damage you just took, and has routinely healed me for 50% total HP. Frenzied Regen I think is one of the best spike damage recovery tools in the game right now, highly underrated. Bear also is one of the smoothest tanks with incoming damage. You will rarely make your healer panic, your damage intake is very often smooth and manageable. And you have a ton of CDs to help, between the absolutely overpowered Rage of the Sleeper on a 1.5 min CD, Barkskin as a ~1.5 min 20% DR that you can use freely, and TWO CHARGES of Shield Wall, meaning you can use your biggest DR whenever you want and know you still have a charge banked for that moment in the fight that requires it. You can be quite self sufficient if played correctly, I've tanked the last boss in Maw mythic and Valor mythic after my healer died and lived through minutes more of combat. You can do a ton of AoE damage if specced correctly, while also being basically unkillable for that AoE pack. You have a lot of freedom with talents, and have a variety of builds that work. And most importantly, I find the Bear "rotation" to be very fun and satisfying without being overly complicated meaning you can focus on your tank duties like add management and survivability. Lastly, bear is super powerful (world first mythic +15 used a bear) but seems to be sliding under the radar so nerfs are less likely than on warrior.
- Bear cons: the other hand of the pro, is that because your physical and magical DR are separate, you need to know ahead of time whether an ability is physical or magic. Tree boss in DHT picking you up? Yea, thats actually magic damage, even though it totally seems like it would be physical. So if you don't want to know fights beforehand, playing Bear can be rough. ST damage as a bear is quite low, and you have no real DPS boosts that don't cost you survivability, which can lead to some minor threat issues in raids. You have no nice AoE stun or ranged silence/grip to get those pesky ranged mobs/casters in, though Roar is awesome for mass interrupts (still weird they gave a disorient that breaks on bleed ticks to the tank that has an AoE bleed in their ST rotation). Mobility is mostly fine, definitely nowhere near warrior or DH, though you lose your best personal mobility to take the best raid mobility spell, so that definitely sucks. Your single target and AoE rotations are virtually the same, as your AoE spammable ability is also your ST filler, which is very mildly annoying. If you don't take Galactic Guardian, your rotation is super simple and pretty boring, though GG is so far and away the best talent this matters less.

Just some quick unorganized thoughts, hope it helped a little. Dunno if it is obvious, but I definitely prefer playing Bear, but both tanks offer a lot and are strong and satisfying to play. I also recommend playing both thru the artifact questline if possible to get a feel yourself, but that might not be an option.

Member

I don't know where you guys have time to farm herbs. I have my hands full in between AP quests and/Mythic+. I pick up herbs when I'm out doing stuff but otherwise I have other things to worry about than maxing Aethril.

I just logged in to my druid to send off my followers and noticed I had an herbalist quest in Suramar. I hearthed, ran over to it grabbing a few roses on the way and killed the NPC for an additional 15 roses.

Nearly 3k gold for less than 3 minutes of effort. Most people have enough time for this.

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.

I just logged in to my druid to send off my followers and noticed I had an herbalist quest in Suramar. I hearthed, ran over to it grabbing a few roses on the way and killed the NPC for an additional 15 roses.

Nearly 3k gold for less than 3 minutes of effort. Most people have enough time for this.