OK, here goes.... I am a conservative Republican. Byron..did you ever serve in the military? I did and shockingly enough the majority of our service members are registered Republicans.... I can also assure you that I am neither timid or cowardly or however you would like to describe people from your big keyboard shield. Now that said, I would love to see a third party. I'm sick of the two party system we have. I also think the comments by those two politicians are disgusting! I also wonder why everyone talks about controlling what a woman can do with her body, but no one mentions the baby's body?? I don't want government telling people what they can or can't do with their bodies, I want less government! I wonder though, is it too much to ask to use birth control??? I am all for access (women and men) to birth control, I just don't think we ALL should have to pay for YOUR play. If you can't afford it, ABSTAIN!!! Now I know that's not easy, being the horndog I am, but not everything in life is easy. Just to be clear, I wholeheartedly support a woman's right to do as she wishes with her body, let's just be responsible when engaging in our favorite of pastimes.... And please understand, I am not even referring to rape, incest or health of the mother--those issues are not even on the table as far as I am concerned. Anyone that believes a woman should "just deal" with those situations is not logical. Ok, my rant is over...and I didn't even mention demoncrats once...oops! Ladies....I love you, you're the best thing since....well ladies!

Less government, but more militarism.... That pretty much sums up the Republican party. If you want a smaller government then you should logically want a smaller military. Or is the blather about 'small government' just blather?

Last Republican politician of note to actually serve in the military was John McCain who was by all accounts the worst pilot in the service, losing three planes, only one to enemy fire. He was known for his heroism after being captured. The rest of them, Bush, Cheney and Mittens somehow all had other priorities.

OK so West did technically serve but he was forced to resign his commission rather than force court martial for a war crime.

Of course this bunch of chickenhawks are going to find supporters in the military when they are proposing to expand the military budget even further. But is it really patriotic for the pentagon to demand ever more of the national resources? Why does Mitt think we need an even bigger military when the US already spends more on militarism than the entire rest of the planet combined? Is Al Qaeda really a bigger threat than the Soviet Union, which you know had actual tanks and nuclear weapons?

Joined: 4/30/2012Posts: 329Location: under bright lights, United States

Dear Mr. Mourdock,

Sometimes I still flinch when I’m touched a certain way, even if it’s the loving embrace of my husband. I can’t stand to watch TV shows where rape is the central plot line. Even some seasons of the year are harder for me. Those of us who are sexual assault survivors call these triggers. We spend our lives — the lives we lead after the attack — avoiding and managing these triggers.

A congressional debate shouldn’t have to come with a trigger warning. But apparently, Richard, yours should. Because in Tuesday’s debate for Indiana’s U.S. Senate seat, you said this Tuesday night during a debate in New Albany, Indiana.

“I believe that life begins at conception…The only exception I have, to have an abortion, is in that case of the life of the mother. I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

Rape and sexual assault are complicated experiences for survivors. Some of us fight, kick, scream, and resist at every moment. Some of us eventually give in to save our own lives or to manage the horror. Some of us know that what is happening is rape, others of us just know it is wrong, but don’t have the words to describe why. Some of us push the memories down and try to forget, others of us battle openly with the nightmares and scars every day. There is no one right way to survive. There is no one right way to feel.

As we heal, we learn not to judge ourselves or to judge our fellow survivors, because we learn that judgment can wound as deeply as assault. If a woman finds herself pregnant after a rape, we do not judge the choices she makes.

I am descended from American slaves. I have foremothers who found themselves pregnant with children whose birth increased the wealth of the very man who enslaved and raped them. Somehow, through the angst and misery of that experience some of those women found a way to love and embrace the children they bore from rape. So I do not doubt the compassion or judge the choice of a survivor who carries a rape pregnancy to term.

But the whole point is choice. Consent. You see, Mr. Mourdock, the violation of rape is more than physical. Rapists strip women of our right to choose, of our right to say no, of our right to control what is happening to our bodies. Most assailants tell us it is our fault. They tell us to be silent. Sometimes they even tell us it’s God’s will. That is the core violation of rape– it takes away choice.

Richard, you believe it is fine to ignore a women’s right to choose because of your interpretation of divinity. Sound familiar?

Let me explain something to you. When we survive sexual assault, we are the gift. When we survive, when we go on to love, to work, to speak out, to have fun, to laugh, to dance, to cry, tolive, when we do that, we defeat our attackers. For a moment, they strip us of our choices. As we heal, we take our choices back. We are the gift to ourselves, our families, our communities, and our nation when we survive.

Now let me say this very clearly to you Mr Mourdock, and to all of your shameless endorsers: we did not survive an attack on our consent just to turn around and give up our right to choose to you. Not without a fight.

Sometimes I still flinch when I’m touched a certain way, even if it’s the loving embrace of my husband. I can’t stand to watch TV shows where rape is the central plot line. Even some seasons of the year are harder for me. Those of us who are sexual assault survivors call these triggers. We spend our lives — the lives we lead after the attack — avoiding and managing these triggers.

A congressional debate shouldn’t have to come with a trigger warning. But apparently, Richard, yours should. Because in Tuesday’s debate for Indiana’s U.S. Senate seat, you said this Tuesday night during a debate in New Albany, Indiana.

“I believe that life begins at conception…The only exception I have, to have an abortion, is in that case of the life of the mother. I’ve struggled with it myself for a long time, but I came to realize that life is that gift from God. And even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen.”

Rape and sexual assault are complicated experiences for survivors. Some of us fight, kick, scream, and resist at every moment. Some of us eventually give in to save our own lives or to manage the horror. Some of us know that what is happening is rape, others of us just know it is wrong, but don’t have the words to describe why. Some of us push the memories down and try to forget, others of us battle openly with the nightmares and scars every day. There is no one right way to survive. There is no one right way to feel.

As we heal, we learn not to judge ourselves or to judge our fellow survivors, because we learn that judgment can wound as deeply as assault. If a woman finds herself pregnant after a rape, we do not judge the choices she makes.

I am descended from American slaves. I have foremothers who found themselves pregnant with children whose birth increased the wealth of the very man who enslaved and raped them. Somehow, through the angst and misery of that experience some of those women found a way to love and embrace the children they bore from rape. So I do not doubt the compassion or judge the choice of a survivor who carries a rape pregnancy to term.

But the whole point is choice. Consent. You see, Mr. Mourdock, the violation of rape is more than physical. Rapists strip women of our right to choose, of our right to say no, of our right to control what is happening to our bodies. Most assailants tell us it is our fault. They tell us to be silent. Sometimes they even tell us it’s God’s will. That is the core violation of rape– it takes away choice.

Richard, you believe it is fine to ignore a women’s right to choose because of your interpretation of divinity. Sound familiar?

Let me explain something to you. When we survive sexual assault, we are the gift. When we survive, when we go on to love, to work, to speak out, to have fun, to laugh, to dance, to cry, tolive, when we do that, we defeat our attackers. For a moment, they strip us of our choices. As we heal, we take our choices back. We are the gift to ourselves, our families, our communities, and our nation when we survive.

Now let me say this very clearly to you Mr Mourdock, and to all of your shameless endorsers: we did not survive an attack on our consent just to turn around and give up our right to choose to you. Not without a fight.

What I think is happening here is that the GOP is finally being challenged on these issues. One result is that elderly men who never really thought about these issues too hard are being asked questions and put on the spot. And the answers that come out betray the fact that they have not really considered them.

thank you for writing this. though it reduced me to tears, it was also the most beautiful, elegant, and perfect letter. i hope that this finds it's way into the hands of Senator Mourdock or someone - ANYone - who thinks that way. how anyone could read this and not be moved to re-think their position is beyond me. thank you. thank you so much. all my love to you, to everyone who reads this and is nodding, cause they know, cause they feel, cause they've been there. i think i'm going to print this out - i have a special place in our house - pictures of friends, both here and gone, favorite things, things that i love or things that give me hope and faith... it's going up. thank you, Melissa. apes together strong

Joined: 4/30/2012Posts: 329Location: under bright lights, United States

Just to clairify''Melissa" is Melissa Harris Perry of MSNBC and the letter was broadcast on Oct 27th., Melissa narrating herself. It was seen by millions of viewers and written by Ms. Perry from personal experiance as a rape victim herself. I hope I have copied the link correctly as it's quite powerful.

After posting my rant I about usmcvet and the republicon position against women, I realized that usmcvet is a guy. So, first of all, from one vet to another...thanks for your service.

However, I cannot and never will apologize for my positions against that well-oiled weather vane of a party they have come to be. They are not Bob Dole or Ronald Reagans conservative party.

Today they are a far right, radical group that created two wars and a prescription drug bill that they didn't even put on the books. They left it all unpaid for. Conservative? Irresponsible! They left that for Obama to do and then turn on Obama and complain about how the debt is all his fault!

They call this man a foodstamp President when they are the ones who crashed the economy and caused this upswing in people who need the stamps. But it came together on Obama, sp it must be his fault. And then they preach less govt. and want to enact more govt with lies and bullshit tales about what they are going to do which doesn't jive with the platform they approved at the republican convention.

WAKE UP!

Yes, we are in tough times but before we knee-jerk...look closely at what they say and what the parties platform declare they will do. After you do that, when you are standing there with your mouth dangling wide open because you see the con...vote appropriately. But, please don't vote on rhetoric. 50% of the nations population is depending on you.

Forgive for I rant.

Rant on always, Dude - and thank you too, for your continuing service to this country.

I find people like you to be very small minded. How can someone have a view that abortion is wrong? Because it is killing a human being. That's how. Even for rape. Is it not a rational belief to think that killing an innocent victim is murder? Or to think that killing anyone is murder? Not everyone agrees with Roe v Wade. Not everyone thinks that somehow an artificial date somehow separates a life from a non-life. Some people think that even embryos are considered lives and should be given the chance to live. I don't agree, but I certainly respect their opinions.

Besides, if you made a law saying that abortion was okay only in the event of rape, wouldn't that just increase the number of women filing false claims of rape?

How about this? How is it that Liberals have such a hard time with the death penalty? I don't know of any that would support the death penalty for rape. So why does the baby have to die but the rapist gets to spend a few years in prison and then continue enjoying his life? Hell, most liberals don't even support the death penalty for murder, but they don't have a problem with abortion. To me, it's much harder to follow that logic.

By the way, I could care less about abortion. But I can definitely understand other people's points of view. When you are so narrow minded that you think your view is the only sane option, then it's likely that you are the one that is insane.

And how can you be so narrow-minded and quick to think that everyone agrees that life begins at conception? Or is it when a baby draws its first breath? Or when it can survive outside the uterus? The line is so damn fuzzy that no matter your stance on the subject someone will offer a separate and logical opinion other than, "IT'S MURDER!!"Gimme a fucking break. Get off your high horse and take a look at the bigger picture. It's by belittling a woman's choice to choose by labeling it as "legitimate rape" or as "God's Will" that the baby will spontaneously abort because it was a "legitimate rape".I don't believe it should all be on the woman to deal with the consequences but until men can carry a baby to full-term it's left to the woman to deal with the fallout.Not a bunch of pencil pushing bureaucrats wearing a suit and tie discussing whether or not it's "legitimate".

And how can you be so narrow-minded and quick to think that everyone agrees that life begins at conception? Or is it when a baby draws its first breath? Or when it can survive outside the uterus? The line is so damn fuzzy that no matter your stance on the subject someone will offer a separate and logical opinion other than, "IT'S MURDER!!"Gimme a fucking break. Get off your high horse and take a look at the bigger picture. It's by belittling a woman's choice to choose by labeling it as "legitimate rape" or as "God's Will" that the baby will spontaneously abort because it was a "legitimate rape".I don't believe it should all be on the woman to deal with the consequences but until men can carry a baby to full-term it's left to the woman to deal with the fallout.Not a bunch of pencil pushing bureaucrats wearing a suit and tie discussing whether or not it's "legitimate".

Apparently you have a hard time reading the post:

"And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."- Richard Mourdock , U.S. Senate Republican candidate from Indiana.

“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.” - Todd Akin, U.S. Senate Republican candidate from from Missouri.

Ok, i'm not asking if you agree with these statements, cause no one could. What i AM asking is how is it that this sort of thinking prevails in these United States and is voiced by people charged with running the country and making laws and legislation that effects us all. Those are 2 of 13 republican Senators (2 of which are women) who believe that abortion should be illegal for women or girls who become pregnant through rape. Oh, and Romney is on record as having the same opinion. how is it that any civilized human being could think like that, and how is it that these people aren't condemned outright? It boggles my mind.

"And I think even when life begins in that horrible situation of rape, that it is something that God intended to happen."- Richard Mourdock , U.S. Senate Republican candidate from Indiana.

“If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down. But let’s assume that maybe that didn’t work or something: I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be of the rapist, and not attacking the child.” - Todd Akin, U.S. Senate Republican candidate from from Missouri.

Ok, i'm not asking if you agree with these statements, cause no one could. What i AM asking is how is it that this sort of thinking prevails in these United States and is voiced by people charged with running the country and making laws and legislation that effects us all. Those are 2 of 13 republican Senators (2 of which are women) who believe that abortion should be illegal for women or girls who become pregnant through rape. Oh, and Romney is on record as having the same opinion. how is it that any civilized human being could think like that, and how is it that these people aren't condemned outright? It boggles my mind.

Now you get it?

not quite sure how quoting my original post backs up your POV - perhaps you could elaborate, please? :)apes together strong

Joined: 4/30/2012Posts: 329Location: under bright lights, United States

[quote=Kinky_Becky]I find people like you to be very small minded. How can someone have a view that abortion is wrong? Because it is killing a human being. That's how. Even for rape. Is it not a rational belief to think that killing an innocent victim is murder? Or to think that killing anyone is murder? Not everyone agrees with Roe v Wade. Not everyone thinks that somehow an artificial date somehow separates a life from a non-life. Some people think that even embryos are considered lives and should be given the chance to live. I don't agree, but I certainly respect their opinions.

Besides, if you made a law saying that abortion was okay only in the event of rape, wouldn't that just increase the number of women filing false claims of rape?

How about this? How is it that Liberals have such a hard time with the death penalty? I don't know of any that would support the death penalty for rape. So why does the baby have to die but the rapist gets to spend a few years in prison and then continue enjoying his life? Hell, most liberals don't even support the death penalty for murder, but they don't have a problem with abortion. To me, it's much harder to follow that logic.

By the way, I could care less about abortion. But I can definitely understand other people's points of view. When you are so narrow minded that you think your view is the only sane option, then it's likely that you are the one that is insane.[/quote

I don't think just because someones viewpoint is different from yours they are instantly either a liberal or small minded, just of a different opinion and for you to paint them as such shows a lack of tolerance to any point of view but your own.

Quoting your original post was to highlight your original argument. You are saying that no civilized human being could hold the position that abortion should be illegal even in the case of rape. I don't particularly care one way or the other; I'm simply not that opinionated. But I believe that you should be at least open minded enough to understand how someone could feel that way. For example, holding the opinion that abortion is murder is a completely logical position. You may not agree with it, but you should at least respect their opinion. This was the basis of my original post.

Then DevilsWeakness claimed I was being narrow-minded. For what, I don't exactly know as the post is rather poorly written and nearly incomprehendable. Basically, it appears that she focused on the Senators you quoted, which was not my argument at all. Since your post asked a specific question about how anyone could hold an opinion that abortion should be illegal for those who were raped, I quoted your original post.

Perhaps I was wrong to expect people posting on this could follow logical reasoning.

You just made my point. I even stated in my original post that I don't have a strong opinion on abortion. I'm not calling her small-minded for having an opinion that differs from mine as I have no strong opinion on it. I'm calling her small minded because as she states, "who believe that abortion should be illegal for women or girls who become pregnant through rape. Oh, and Romney is on record as having the same opinion. how is it that any civilized human being could think like that, and how is it that these people aren't condemned outright?" clearly demonstrates an unwillingness to respect another person's point of view.

It took from the time of Christ to the time of Columbus -1500 years - for the earth's human population to double from 1/4 to 1/2 billion people. By the time of the American revolution the population doubled again to 1 billion, then, by the time I was born, it doubled again to 2 billion. In my lifetime, the population doubled to 4 billion, and is now over 7 billion. Any child born today will see the population double to 14 billion, then 28 billion, and possibly 56 billion by the time they're 50, because the time it takes to double decreases dramatically the more people there are.

Newt Gingrich's solution is to build colonies on the moon.

The bible is a lovely book, filled with beautiful, poetic metaphors.Taking it literally is irresponsible.

I don't know how people like Mr. Mourdock can think the way they do.I do know it's immoral.

Quoting your original post was to highlight your original argument. You are saying that no civilized human being could hold the position that abortion should be illegal even in the case of rape. I don't particularly care one way or the other; I'm simply not that opinionated. But I believe that you should be at least open minded enough to understand how someone could feel that way. For example, holding the opinion that abortion is murder is a completely logical position. You may not agree with it, but you should at least respect their opinion. This was the basis of my original post. .

you missed my second post, then, which stated:

Oh, and while i don't agree with pro-life, anti-abortion stance, i do get it to a degree. Someone has unprotected VOLUNTARY sex, that's different than being raped or abused in an incestuous relationship. i can respect that, even if i think it's wrong.

see? i do respect people's opinions - this (abortion) is something that people are going to have differing opinions on and that doesn't make them bad people. now, here's the thing - when it comes to rape, things change drastically, in my opinion - a resulting pregnancy goes into an entirely different catagory...

i hope you've never been in, or ever will be, in a position to understand what a woman who is raped goes through. try to imagine it and then, understand that it's 10 times worse. forcing - FORCING - a woman who become pregnant as a result of rape is cruel. it's inhuman. it's much worse, in my eyes, then 'killing' a fetus that has no memory, no knowledge, no feelings, no understanding or knowledge of life. the things that make us human haven't yet developed within his tiny little non-existent brain yet.

9 months of being forced to carry the reminder of something she needs no reminder of. something she didn't ask for or want. do you have any idea what that could do to a woman? any idea at all? sure, it's easy to sit back and make the call when it doesn't personally affect you. when it does, your point of view is drastically altered, your convictions tested. perhaps you would hold to your ideals in a case like that - perhaps not. i hope you never have to find out. *hugs*

I support any pro-lifer's choice to not have an abortion. All we ask is the same in return, but instead we get a bunch of bible quotes, and wackos squawking about baby murderers etc. Luckily, as far as the law is concerned, old Christian misogynist white guys are becoming increasingly outnumbered.

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