Minter, Will

ORAL HISTORY OF WILL D. MINTER, SR.
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
October 8, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is October 8, 2013, and I am at the home of Will Minter here in Knoxville, I guess, Fountain City, Knoxville area. Mr. Minter, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us.
MR. MINTER: Thank you. It's always a pleasure to talk about Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family.
MR. MINTER: Well, I was born in Knoxville, Tennessee. Six kids, two parents, eight of us. I was born in what they call Austin Homes. You might could say it was a gated community, very private, for two reasons. Number one, it was the low income projects -- gated community. Private? Yes, because no whites lived there, only Blacks could live there. It was completely segregated at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now where... what part of Knoxville was that?
MR. MINTER: That's center of Knoxville, I guess you might call it. The center of town, it's near Main Street.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, what year were you born?
MR. MINTER: In 1946.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1946. So you're growing up ...
MR. MINTER: Baby boomer!
MR. MCDANIEL: ...in Knoxville.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now what did your mother and father do?
MR. MINTER: Well, my dad was a chef. He actually cooked at Andrew Johnson's and American Legion and Spike's Restaurant, and of course, the Miller's Building, the Valador Room, the top room there, the top place where people ate at that time. He was a chef and Mom was a stay-at-home. With six of us, it wasn't much of a choice, but she did do what they call "days work." That's where she would go off and work in whites' homes to clean up and things like that. And help raise their children.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So, that was our life. I like to tell people I slept three to a bed until the day I got married. And I still sleep on the edge of the bed now. My wife says, "Why are you over there?" Hell, I'm used to it. I'm safe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Hanging onto the edge, yeah.
MR. MINTER: I can sleep right on that edge.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. So, you were the... you were one of six. Well, now you were the oldest or...?
MR. MINTER: No, I was the middle kid.
MR. MCDANIEL: Middle kid.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where did you go to school?
MR. MINTER: I went to high school, elementary, Vine Junior. Greene School, Vine Junior and Austin High.
MR. MCDANIEL: You went to Austin High.
MR. MINTER: Which is now Austin-East. Left there, went to Knoxville College and went to UT [University of Tennessee].
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you went to Austin, was it an all-Black school?
MR. MINTER: Yes, it was. Things were segregated. I went there... I graduated from Austin in 1965 and, of course, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, so my contact with whites was very little other than to occasionally work in that environment. But I was very fortunate to work in that environment because I started out working, when I was 13, at Deane Hill Country Club.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Bus boy, cleaning tables, and stuff like that -- waiter, did a little bartending as I got older.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you grew up in, really, in the Black community of Knoxville.
MR. MINTER: Certainly. It was very segregated and that's the way it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... What did your parents teach you or talk to you about as far as relationship or interaction with whites?
MR. MINTER: Well, I tell you what; my dad was superintendent of Sunday schools for one of the largest churches in Knoxville at that time. Huge Sunday school class and he was the superintendent for well over 40 years. And, so, his teaching was around the Bible -- fairness, understanding people, standing up when others around you are laying down, doing the right thing, respecting others. We very seldom talked about civil rights. My dad was a do-er. When anyone was discriminated against, my dad would rise up and just do things. Wouldn't say that. He thought it was just the right thing to do. When the Clinton situation prevailed, my dad was a Mason and they all gathered to figure out how we were going to protect those students in Clinton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And when a young football player was denied a chance to play at one of the county schools here in Knoxville, to play football, Dad went there on his own and stood up and got that young man in there to play.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: So my dad was more of a do-er. He wouldn't let us go out. He thought I was too young to go out and picket, but I snuck out the window to go downtown to take a quick look at the picket signs going up, because I was probably about 14 when a lot of that was going on and he was very concerned about protecting his family against it. But my daddy stood up, I was so proud of him. We were very poor, take the 'p' out of poor, I think that would... you know, six kids, three to a bed, right? But he was a very loving man so he taught us how to interact with ourselves and how to treat people. So that had nothing to do with color, it had to do with doing the right thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: How did that affect you? How did that influence you for the rest of your life? So far...
MR. MINTER: Well, there were two men in my life, well, actually three. And that's what I... I used to deliver the church bulletin with a man called Mr. Macadoo when I was 9 and 10. He dressed nice, looked nice, drove a good car. He worked at ALCOA and he would always pay me to help deliver the church newspaper, so I liked getting paid and I liked working. He taught me what it was going on in the outside world. We couldn't afford to go to restaurants, but he would take me. On Saturday when we'd finish, he'd take me for dessert. So, I got to see the old Rendezvous -- you know, back then, Blacks had a lot of buildings and places and things to do here in Knoxville. We had our own community. And we loved it, you know. Black doctors, Black dentists, Black hospitals -- or where they treated us -- restaurants, everything. We had it all. And, so, I got a chance to see things. With my dad teaching me fairness and all these other things. And then there was a guy called Mr. Robinson, Dave Robinson, tall, beautiful looking African American male teacher at Austin High School. He gave me the wake-up call because I wasn't the best of students. You might say I was a C-plus student, should have been an A student. But I was C-plus and he told me one day, "Mr. Minter!" And his shoes were so shiny you could see your face and he wore that blue suit. I even dress like him today. I just don't know, because he had that much on me. But he told me that I had a choice, that I was silly, having fun all the time because everyone laughed at me because I came from the projects, I was poor, didn't have a good shirt... only one or two shirts all year long, you know, to wear. So those who had a little bit more looked down on you. Similar to bullying, the way bullying is today, they did it really good. They ranked you. And so, Mr. Robinson told me that I could be somebody or I could act the fool for the rest of my life. Well, this thought of me being somebody. Man, that fired me up. That changed my life. Here is somebody looking like he is somebody telling me I can be somebody. And I separated myself from the others and I... they had this contest, or they had this group from UT coming over to our school looking for people to act at the Carousel Theatre. And I said, "I'll do it!" and I had never acted hardly any-- I was in church plays and stuff like that, but my daddy always said, "Son, you have the ability to communicate." He said, "Make sure that you always have facts behind you when you talk and that you have something worthwhile to say." So I think that stuck with me and then I went on to act at the Carousel Theatre.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were you still in high school or were you in college?
MR. MINTER: In high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: In high school you acted at the Carousel.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, yeah, the theatre for children in the round at the theatre. So, I did that. Won the leading role. But one thing about it was, there were three African Americans. Two of them won the role for being the guard. I won the role for being the Magician in Aladdin which is, basically the lead role -- one of the lead roles. It was between Aladdin and the Magician where all of the talking parts occurred. But before that what inspired me to really try to win and win big was they laughed at us, the kids, mostly -- all white. This was the first time I'd seen so many white young people my same age -- high school. And they laughed at us saying, "Look at the color of his legs! They're Black!" And they laughed. Well, the other two guys almost said, "We're not coming back."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: As we walked back to Austin from UT, I said, "No, we can do this, guys. I don't think we should quit. I think we should go back and let them see who we really are."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I hate what they did. I really was so sad. It taught me how hurtful people can be when they talk about your race. And instead of letting it beat me down, I decided to go back and I ended up winning that part. And the guy who came in second shook my hands and we became the best of friends. So I realized, you know, when you stand up for things you really believe in, it doesn't matter their color is, they usually are going to like you because, guess what, they know you know something. And when two people know you know something, you can make something happen in the other world. So that's where my quest to become the best of what I am and what Mr. Robinson, Mr. Macadoo and my dad all combined to teach me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: My mama had a great deal of influence on me -- she knew how to throw a piece of kindling at me. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's a whole different... That's a whole different ... keeping you in line.
MR. MINTER: Oh, that's a different world... Yeah. So... (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you graduated and then you went to UT?
MR. MINTER: I went to Knoxville College.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, you went to Knoxville College, that's right.
MR. MINTER: And I spent two years there and loved it. I excelled in terms of, not necessarily grades, because I was so busy catching up. But I didn't have a dime to go to school. My dad said there was no money but he would feed me and give me a roof over my head as long as I stayed in school. Wow! I was really sad about that because I thought he was going to pay my way because he'd tried to do that for my other two...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So, man, after I got over the self-pity, I went to work. I already had a job and was helping Dad and Mom out ever since I was 13. I would buy groceries with the extra money I made instead of putting it in my pocket. So, I got a job at the packing house, East Tennessee Packing House working from 6 in the evening to 6 in the morning.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And I... yeah. Made good money. Oh, I loved that. Steady job, too. And then I worked at the country club and so, as a result, I was able to do a lot of things there, at home, and then send myself to college. I think that's where I really learned leadership and standing up. After all, it was '65, '66 and '67 where we... Things start opening up for us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. MINTER: And I began to speak out for things. And I was never afraid of whites like so many other people were around me. Because I'd already been poor; what could they take away from me? I think that's one of the drivers I've always had. I know how to live poorly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. So, you went to Knoxville College for two years and then you...
MR. MINTER: I got married, at the time, moved to Oak Ridge because my wife at that time had a job in Roane County, teaching at Harriman High, I think it was, had a son on the way. And so I said, "Ok, I'll drop out of school and go to school at night." So I went to UT at night because couldn't do it at Knoxville College and I continued to take courses and I got a job at Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you. Ok.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was your... what was your first job at Y-12?
MR. MINTER: I was a records clerk.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: And this was '67.
MR. MINTER: '67 when I started. And I thought ... One of the people I had bartended for at Deane Hill Country Club was a division director and his name was Ed Pluhar. I never will forget him. And he saw me in the hallway after they had hired me and said, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "Well, I got a job here, I'm waiting on an assignment." And he says, "You need to come and work for me." I said, "Ok." Looked like I had two offers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So he hired me out of the clerical pool, I think it was, and hired me into what they call the Records... Plant Records. Thousands and thousands of secret documents. (laughs) That's where they kept them, accounted for them -- hundreds of thousands of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did you study in college?
MR. MINTER: Business management, commerce, and industrial management at UT. So I'm going to school at night and, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: Working during the day, your wife's teaching school in Harriman and you're... got a little one...
MR. MINTER: And then she lost her job because it was the first year and she was pregnant, so they didn't hire her back.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So I ended up doing it all. So I would bartend at night and work at Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you still bartending at Deane Hill?
MR. MINTER: Yes. On and off. I stopped that because it got to be too much and began to just do private parties. And, you know, life got a little better for me. I saw that most, basically, people didn't have hardly any college around me but one other young lady. There were only two of us out of about 25 that were African American in the whole group. Were very few African Americans on a salary. Most of them were craft and union workers and laborers and things like that. So things hadn't changed much.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was the culture like for Blacks in the late '60s at Y-12 or in Oak Ridge.
MR. MINTER: Well, it wasn't... It was good and bad. Number one, you could... there was a push to try to increase employment. Now this was before Affirmative Action but right after the Equal Opportunity, so we had ourselves -- whites just wouldn't communicate with you. It didn't look like you were going places. And ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... But there was beginning to be some opportunities, though, weren't there?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, and you could see them; they were remote and difficult. But many whites just didn't socialize with you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: We ate together. We tried to break away. I was very fortunate 'cause I didn't fear communicating with them. I had my problems, yeah, where I could see, I was in a meeting and somebody asked me what did I want to do and I said I'd love to have Mr. Riley's job someday. Well, he was our supervisor. Boy, he got mad! He treated me so bad.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he, really?
MR. MINTER: Yeah! I mean I thought that, you know, he was older, he'd be leaving, I'd like to have his job one day. I didn't mean to imply I was going to take it from him. Well, I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Three years later, he got deathly sick and I ended up becoming supervisor of Plant Records. You know. But he didn't know... well, yeah, he did. You know, I filed a complaint against him for treating me like that. Didn't go anywhere, they slapped his hand and told him to watch what he was saying. Because my division director, who I knew -- I thought this guy could fire me, I didn't know, you know, for saying something like that. And I was by myself. It didn't bother me much that I had to turn him in. I did and next thing I know, they were looking around for a replacement and I had worked so hard to let them know I'm available and so, as a result, I got his job. But on his deathbed, guess what? I went by to visit Mr. Riley.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And he told me he was sorry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. None of the other employees hardly went by to see him. I did. That's the kind of person I am. I've always been like that, you know, just because we different don't mean I shouldn't care about you. So I'd use that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. The, well that was your raising.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, I think you might say that.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was the way you were raised. (electronic noises) Go ahead... you need to do something...
MR. MINTER: A Skype call! A Skype call! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you became the supervisor of Records there at Y-12. Tell me about the rest of your career.
MR. MINTER: Oh, I went on and took over Engineering Services. Went back to UT saying, "Wow, I'm in engineering. I need some science." (laughs) I was in Industrial Management. And I said, “Wow,” and I took over that, did a lot of innovations. Brought the first use of barcoding. The use of optical discs, where you digitize the engineering drawings. I led the way with another guy and we traveled around the country to bring that system in. I joined a professional organization. (electronic noise)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok. Go ahead.
MR. MINTER: Anyway, I got a lot of opportunities to be creative. I started the first professional chapter of the Association of Records Managers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Uh-huh. And I joined. I was the first member to join a professional records-keeping organization. You might say it was information management 'cause that's where it evolved to. At that time, computers were very limited so it was managing paperwork and then it got to be managing information and then, of course, the fast computers took over the sharing of information.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: So I was in charge of the Archives and Records Department, went over to be in charge of Engineering Services. They had what they called a combined management and centralized organization, so they pooled everybody together. I took over another organization, the Document Control Centers and Engineering Services. Moved out of the record-keeping business into engineering services and made a lot of new innovative increases then. In fact, my performance rating was off the chart. And I also managed the HFIR situation. When the mercury leak occurred, I was on the mercury team.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you?
MR. MINTER: In charge of gathering all the information related to this critical situation that had reached the press regarding the mercury being released.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was leading that effort?
MR. MINTER: Bill Wilcox.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right, that's what I thought. Bill was leading...
MR. MINTER: Bill Wilcox. And I was on his team. In fact, he was the one that called me at 2 or 3 in the morning...
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: ...asking me to open up the classified vaults. Oh, my God! Well, I knew who Bill Wilcox was. He's one hell of... I love that guy! He's one hell of a no nonsense operational guy.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: I even learned strategic planning from him. And so, I showed up out there and got those records together and I knew more than everybody 'cause, you who know the information, you know, you know the facts.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So I was able to put it together, put a database. I had a team working 24/7, man. We were getting it, trying to get all that information together so that the proper people could make decisions as to about what really happened, how much, where'd it come from and where'd it go?
MR. MCDANIEL: Where'd it go...
MR. MINTER: So I had the records and I helped pull it together. Got my first really big company award.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, I'd gotten a couple more, but yeah, it made me feel so good I said, "Getting an award is really nice." Bill gave us that award and I enjoyed that. Went on to help HFIR in their critical situation when they were shut down. Again, it was over the document control center. The reason they were shut down was because of paper trail. There I was again.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Then there was a big cesium leak, I think, in Atlanta, one of the subdivisions of a subcontractor. You want me to...
MR. MCDANIEL: No, that's fine.
MR. MINTER: So I went and worked in Atlanta with a team of people pulling together all the records for this sterilization center that had leaked some things. Got another award for that. And so they were beginning to come in and I had a good reign of moving up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And then I left that group, joining engineering technology to write technical procedures, because I had two supervisors who just were so jealous of my go-getting attitude. I, you know, I let the employees rate me when we did performance rating -- and I used to teach performance improvement to other managers so I let the employees rate me -- and it was so good it just intimidated those people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Really...
MR. MINTER: And, of course, I'm outward spoken and very, you might... aggressive? In a nice way, not intimidating, 'cause employees loved me. You know, I believed in fairness, you know, on the one hand. And I put people in a box. I made you like me. I gave you every reason in the world to know that I wanted to personalize my relationship with people. And I always did that. And I figured that if I personalized my relationship I could shoot straight with you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: You know, about your absentee problem. You know, help me solve it. So I did all those training courses I could take and I started teaching most of the ones I take... took and so I knew how to use the very best to communicate.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Went on from there, I headed up what they call technical procedures. I didn't like sitting down writing those procedures but I was good at it. For the safety-related procedures at HFIR, the High-Flux Reactor, I wrote them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: Along with my team. Saw a bunch of researchers in engineering technology with no funding.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I brought them funding.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Next thing they said, "Wow! This guy is bringing it and I'm hiring the PhDs that are not..." And so they started recognizing me and they let me do what I wanted to do. I remember the division director said, "This guy's bringing in this money." And they didn't know what to do with me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: They didn't let me join the development team, but they called me that. They had these guys over there that was in charge of development that means they're really out selling the skills of the researchers to DOE and to the outside world.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: Then, I got into this thing that I recommended that all the government laboratories was in trouble with their procedures and policies. So I said, "Well why don't you have a collaborating committee to help write policies among each other." Wow! They took that and it went. And I was the secretary.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MR. MINTER: And the way it was written was that the people who were on the committee had to be one remove from the president or director. So that meant that Y-12... that all the deputy directors had to be... attend the meetings or something like that. Or the directors.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And there I was the secretary so I traveled all over the country and the different laboratories, just taking notes and helping guide them into it. Then, they came up with this thing called technology transfer and I said, "God, you guys are all wrong."
MR. MCDANIEL: Hold on just a second.
MR. MINTER: So about this time, when technology transfer was becoming a buzzword around Oak Ridge, I had a private life. My son had come to me and told me that a lot of the kids at Oak Ridge school system, they just didn't seem to have anything -- any reaching out to them. And I needed to do something about it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: I'm saying to myself, "What in the world can I do other than go over there?" So I attended some PTA meetings, actually. Heard 'em talking. Still, I could see what was going on, but it was just so hard to figure out what to do on the outside.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, an African American had run for school board, couple of years ago. One of my best friends, John Parnell, and he lost by 40 or 50 votes, citywide election, which was unheard of for an African American to win in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Council was by district so, pretty much, if you came from a Black... 'the' Black district, you could pretty much win, even though they voted on you at-large, you still had to come from that district and if you won that district, you generally won at-large. If nobody got near you, you won. But if it's 50-50 then you went on, you know, to run at-large. That's the way it works. School board was strictly at-large, so it was a tough nut to crack. So, the guys were trying to get somebody to run and somebody said, "Will, why don't you run?" I said, "You've got to be kidding." And I went home and I thought about it and it didn't take me long, I said, "Ok, let's go get 'em!"
MR. MCDANIEL: Now what year was this?
MR. MINTER: 1983.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so in '83.
MR. MINTER: I lost by 35 points the first time, but there was some trickery going on. There was supposed to be three seats up and four people running.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: But the guy who was moving out of town decided not to...
MR. MCDANIEL: Not to go...
MR. MINTER: Give up his seat like he'd already been talking about. Everybody knew he was moving out of town, why didn't he give his seat up, you know, and let the electorate choose who they wanted? He didn't do that. So I got close, but not close enough.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So, they made it clear they was not going to appoint me even though I got the most votes. That's all right. I rallied the community and everybody felt like this man, perhaps, should have won 'cause he ran against incumbents and got that close. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Newspaper endorsed me. Got together with the community relations council, a lot of the people in the community rallied behind me and I got appointed by one vote.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, from then on out, I didn't have any more... (laughs) competition anymore. Because people were afraid to run against me. I'd team with Bill Wilcox to have instituted, along with ... Bill Smallridge, rather...
MR. MCDANIEL: Bob Smallridge...
MR. MINTER: Yeah, Bob Smallridge rather, the first ten-year strategic plan.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. That's where I told you Bill Wilcox taught me strategic planning.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: And I learned it so well that I co-chaired the first Oak Ridge High School strategic plan with Bob Smallridge and myself and Bill Wilcox as our technical advisor and I brought Bill to the table.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, of course.
MR. MINTER: And they voted for it. I became a hit with Oak Ridge schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how long did you serve on the school board?
MR. MINTER: I served '83 to '89.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? Ok.
MR. MINTER: That's six years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Stepped down because they had voted to go completely at-large for city council race.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: Well, there was no African American going to win citywide. It just wasn't going to happen.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was about the same time that they had... well, previously they'd gone from 12 to 7, you know, city councilmen.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. They reduced the number and then went city wide.
MR. MCDANIEL: Went city wide.
MR. MINTER: Oh, man, that lowered the odds significantly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I didn't like that and I knew I could win. When you have done as much as I have done for the school system and my leadership, my skills. I'd even become regional vice president of the National Black Caucus of School Board Members.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And I was pushing computers in our schools, technology. Supporting SECME, Southeastern Consortium of Minority Engineers. Helped get them... got them funded. I cut programs, I increased some.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I also left my footprint on the schools by passing -- I think my last thing was to pass a resolution saying that as long as this school stays in the top 10 in the state, so should our teachers' pay.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: I think that resolution is still there somewhere. (laughs) I was very proud of that because I wanted to have pay-for-performance. Because I couldn't crack the other kind. But I figure like this, if you're still up here, you ought to stay up here, salary-wise, because I do believe in pay-for-performance. Went on to run for city council and won.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Meanwhile, back at the Lab, I'm over there trying to tell our development staff -- program developers -- you guys are going out to all these big companies, they can steal all the secrets from us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Just like the foreign countries can. Industrial espionage is everywhere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: They don't need us like the small businesses do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Oh, man, they don't have it. And they just pushed me to the side. Well, I did it. My boss at the time was Dr. Trivelpiece. He wasn't my boss, he was lab director.
MR. MCDANIEL: Lab director, sure.
MR. MINTER: Hazel O'Leary was the Secretary at the time. So I went in and recruited small, minority business consortium, small whites, Black, didn't matter... but I made sure it included minorities.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And they said I broke the record in the number of corporative research and development agreements.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: That was technology transfer at the Lab, I broke the record. Signed up six in six months. Hazel O'Leary loved it so well, Dr. Trivelpiece along with Joe La Grone, we all met in Washington to talk about hosting the first national conference with DOE and I got a chance to chair that and I thought I had, "Man, I'm in high cotton!" the right kind of cotton for them to recognize me for holding the very first and see, so, Dr. Trivelpiece believed in me and didn't like the way the technology transfer were working at the other sites that well that he requested I come on his staff. Would you believe that I was a spokesperson for the Oak Ridge National Laboratory for the super conductor super collider.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Got letters to prove it! (laughter) I travelled with Edward Newman three or four different colleges – Stonybrook, I remember and then there was two others -- where we spoke on what technology was coming out of the super conductor super collider and how it was going to help us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And the Texas Commission on the super conductor paid our way, reimbursed the Lab for my participation. Now, grant you, I'm not a scientist but I did take geology because I wanted to understand science a little more so that I could speak. And I'm going around and these guys, and, you know, I'm poor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: You know, I making a little money then... (laughs) I've still got a poor mind. I was saying, "These guys are ordering wine, expensive wine." [Of] Course the Texas Commission was paying for it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But I'm hanging with Edward Newman. I was so proud to be with him. I lost the picture and I was looking for it, but I did find the letters of me doing that, thanking me for doing it. But speaking on behalf of the Lab, nobody knew I was doing it except for Dr. Trivelpiece.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. MINTER: I thought he was crazy for assigning to me. I'm not a PhD. You know, I'm saying, "What in the hell?" Well, I guess my dad was right. I studied night and day. I knew that I could articulate to the public. Now I just needed to understand. So I studied night and... You would not believe the old burning of the midnight oil trying to learn all of how that ring was going to do what it's going to do and how that thing worked. And I did understand it. And I realized that a lot of scientists who were in charge of projects didn't have the scientific background of the research they was in charge of.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But they had the ability to understand, put together, make decisions and lead. So I figured it out, that you can lead projects. So I kept taking project management at the same time and Dr. Trivelpiece came to me and said, "Will, I can't have you reporting to me anymore." I thought I was being demoted. He said, "No, I can't sign your time card!" (Laughs, claps!) I thought it was funny. So I worked for Tom Rowe and meanwhile, back on city council, I helped get the first -- by the way, a little known history fact -- Black history fact -- I led the way for the Martin Luther King holiday for the Oak Ridge schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: First system, first government entity in East Tennessee to recognize that holiday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: In fact, I think it was one of the first, probably one of the first in the state. And people were shocked. It took me three times to get that vote. And I remember how I got it. There was a guy named J.C. Scarborough. I needed one more vote and I couldn't crack it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: There was no way I could crack it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, was this city council or is this...?
MR. MINTER: Oak Ridge school system.
MR. MCDANIEL: School system, right.
MR. MINTER: When I was on the school board, right. I won that thing. I took him golfing. I never golfed...
MR. MCDANIEL: J.C.?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, J.C. Scarborough. Everybody thought he was a bigot, old man, but he wasn't. He was older, senior, but he was the most loveable man you could ever do.
MR. MCDANIEL: He was just an old country boy, wasn't he?
MR. MINTER: Oh, I couldn't stand him at first, but I realized, "No, I can't..." this is not me to not stand somebody.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Took him golfing 'cause he liked golfing. I couldn't golf. Guy named Larry Gibson gave me a lesson and let's see, I rented the shoes, I got some clubs from Larry. He gave me a quick lesson. I went out with J.C. and we started talking about our religious background. And I told him my dad was this and that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And I think I beat J.C.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: 'Cause he kept moving that ball. Now, I know enough about the game, if you're over... you don't pick up that ball and drop it anywhere. I hung with... I won't say that I beat him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I feel like I did 'cause we stopped keeping score. But I was 'cause I'm very competitive. Got back and he voted for Martin Luther King holiday. I went out and boo-hooed like a baby.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And to this day, when I think about how you can win people over, you know, you just got to sit and talk.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so, meanwhile, I did the same thing on the Oak Ridge city council. So we got it. And it sort of put me in position in the state: I'm on City Council, Maynard Jackson nominated me to serve as secretary to the National Black Caucus of Local Elected Officials. That's all the Black mayors and city councils all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. MINTER: I had no idea what I was getting into. (laughs) Meanwhile, back in the Lab, I'm in this technology transfer business. The labs were separating from each the other. They wanted their own contract.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So when they won that, Dr. Trivelpiece said, "Oh, my God, we got this small business and education program. Minter, would you head it up?" I said, "I'll be more than glad to, sir. No problem." 'Cause any job he gave me I just enjoyed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Right about that time, we get a call from New York, the city, and some businesses looking for technology transfer, how that they could use it. I ended up going to New York to help the City of New York in Harlem figure out how to use government technology.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And Bob Farrell and myself, Bob was a researcher, we went to New York. He went to Harlem, I went to Wall Street. I always tell people that. (laughs) We met with Congressman Wrangle and other city officials and we were designing ways to help improve Harlem. Stuff that you would not believe of. And I was a part of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: What would your father have thought about that? Or was he, he wasn't still living?
MR. MINTER: Yes, he was. My father just died a few years ago at 95.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, he was. So what did ... what did your parents think about what you were doing?
MR. MINTER: My daddy said, "You're always into something." He would always say that, "Boy, you are into something." And he was very proud. I knew he was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I was the middle kid, the one most likely to get in trouble, the one most likely to do something out of the box.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: And so he kept close reins on me, but despite it all, he asked that I be executor of his will and everything else, so I was kind of like the chosen one for him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: And I wanted to make him proud of me. He was slow to say, "Good job." He said it when you really earned it.
MR. MCDANIEL: When you really earned it.
MR. MINTER: But he came to every kick off I had in Oak Ridge for every election. Every last one of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: He would get mama and say, "Let's go and support our boy." And he'd come down. Good looking man. And, you know, I didn't look so good, so I liked having my daddy there. (laughs) And I always made sure my staff, my home, events that I had, was very diverse.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Weinberg's been in my basement. I had a lot of the so-called big whops -- big wigs...
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you work with Weinberg? Was ... or...?
MR. MINTER: Weinberg had retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: He'd retired by that time.
MR. MINTER: But not when I first got there. He was still there. But he'd retired and I just looked up to this great man 'cause I did the history thing, I looked up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: But at the time I began to do a lot of things in the community, I was involved with the National Black Caucus. And then I got elected president of the National Black Caucus and, man, it scared the daylights out of me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Wow...
MR. MINTER: Because now, I'm over all the Black mayors and city councilmen all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so, as a result, I'm traveling around. The Lab understood it. And I got a chance to do things that I thought I would never do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: When Nelson Mandela came to this country right after being released from prison in South Africa, I was invited to a reception. And Union Carbide -- no, not Union Carbide, I'm sorry -- Lockheed-Martin had a table at that event and I told them I was going and they asked me to sit at their table.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And so, I was there with Gordon Fee. In fact, we talked about it when Nelson Mandela was sick, how we were there and I've got videos of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, man! We saw Nelson Mandela and it was like I had died and gone to heaven to see somebody who had given up his life. In fact, Gordon Fee and I were just talking about that just a month or two ago when Nelson Mandela got sick and was almost dying.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so I got a chance to do things that I thought... Union... Um, Lockheed-Martin sponsored my opening reception. Man, this is 6,000 elected officials.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I realized that when I got a call from Leslie Hermann, who was assistant to the president, inviting me to the Rose Garden, I'm thinking, "What the hell is going on?" I'm... come on! I got elected to the National League of Cities Board of Directors. First Oak Ridger to ever serve on the National League of Cities Board of Directors. This is all cities, all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I could not believe it. And then, I was asked to meet with the president the night before, it was a Monday; I got a call on a Sunday. Man, again, I'm going crazy. What in the world is going on?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Inviting me to meet with the president, Bill Clinton, in the White House, a day before his State of the Union address on a Tuesday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: First of all, I said, "Man, I got to pay my way up there?" I said, "The city needs to do this. I don't need to pay my way to go to this. You guys, this is too much here." So I called the city clerk on a Saturday and she said, "Yes, I'll get your papers ready. You go ahead and get your ticket, we'll get you out of here.” So I flew up Monday morning. Of course, they had told me, his presidential aide had told me, I can bring four other people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So I said, "Man!" So I brought an African American attorney, a former gang member, 'Gator.' I don't know Gator's name to this day, but talk every now and then. I can find him, he's in Chicago. He had become renowned for stopping gangs and helping people transition.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And the subject that the president, Bill Clinton, wanted us to talk about, was "Three Strikes You Were Out."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: 'Cause that was a bad thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I'm trying to figure out - I'm on a national level, how do I...? How can I tell people in Oak Ridge what I'm doing? I would try, but, you know, you'd almost appear like you were bragging, so I didn't say a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: But I made national news on me. And I led the delegation. I got Jesse Jackson to come, too. They all looked up to me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I got 6,000 folks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: The largest body of elected officials were the mayors and city councils all over the country, African American. So, I had a little power.
MR. MCDANIEL: You were a player.
MR. MINTER: I played. I played.
MR. MCDANIEL: At that point, you were a player.
MR. MINTER: God... The three men in my life taught me how to be fair, how to be adventurous, go places I normally would not go, and how to stand up for what I believed in and that I was just as equal as them. So in the White House, I just told Bill Clinton exactly what I thought.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, about three strikes. You can't support that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Of course, little did I know he didn't support it anyway.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: You steal a pizza, you pull a purse, you steal a car, you were out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: For the rest of your life. Don't make sense. But, you know, Republicans have a tendency to be extreme... oh! So anyway, I had a chance to brief him on that and, later on that year, I was called to ask, help draft the Affirmative Action plan for the U.S. Government. Did that. While at the same time I was serving on the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights state advisory team so I was getting to be one who understood civil rights, the difference between Affirmative Action and other things, so
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, you know, I understand it. So all of these things was just, I was in a whirlwind.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.
MR. MINTER: I have no hobby. I'm...
MR. MCDANIEL: You barely can do your job.
MR. MINTER: At the time, I ... my wife, at that time, was very sick, had just withdrawn, and so we decided to go our separate ways. But we stayed strong. My son said, "I'll stay with you, Dad." And so, I ended up a single parent. I was just everywhere doing things for others. And I always remember God loves a cheerful giver, 'cause I'm one hell of a giver. Folks thought I had money. Hell, I was giving it away, how could I have it. I was donating here and there and I dressed nice because of Mr. Robinson and I felt good because of him and I was fair, but still, you know... So I began to raise money for organizations. I think I became one of the largest African American fundraisers in East Tennessee and I relished that because I wanted other people to do it. So I would say, you know, I'm good at it. Come join me, you know. We need more that's going to do it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Oak Ridge gave me that opportunity to do it. I couldn't have done this in any other... Well, I probably could have, but let's just say I was able to do it in Oak Ridge because I stood up and they listened.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: An intelligent community. And that's one of the things that I love so much about Oak Ridge. The level of intelligence was very high. If you could... If we had TV like we do over in Knoxville, you can get your message out in Oak Ridge quickly and they would make a quick decision on fairness, for the most part.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: We had our problems. I remember one time when I was elected vice mayor of the city. It was my second term. I think I was one of the highest vote gets. They made me vice mayor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: First African American to win at-large. First African American vice mayor and I made them proud of me. I kept it strictly business.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I did all I could. I developed the first Youth Advisory Board.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: I think it's still going on.
MR. MCDANIEL: It is still going on.
MR. MINTER: It is? You check it out! I put that resolution on the table and got them funded and went around and sold it to the students and they loved it. Then, I saw we were having problems with our budget, with operations and with economic development, so I established the first committees. The budget committee? I sent that resolution up. The operations committee and economic development committee. And I chaired the economic development committee. I think the first economic development summit, I recommended it. And the big subject was rooftops! How do we, you know, make a better mall or have this, you know. So I went through all of that and served there and enjoyed it. Introduced new some things that frightened a lot of people. You may have heard of Pathway, this was a new attraction at the museum.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. You would love it. I got all the hype, all the press. It scared Knoxville because it was this place where kids can go into a virtual reality situation and play games while they learn science.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And there was this escalator to it and it was a round dome-like.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, that's right. Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: By the way, there was a little bit of history that you didn't know and I always like to tell people 'cause it was an early thing, before I got into politics. I won the best idea for the 1982 Worlds' Fair.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, really?
MR. MINTER: Yes. It was called a Solar Dome. Now, why did I tell you that?
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Solar Dome, Sunsphere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. 1979, The Oak Ridger had a contest along with Union Planters bank.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Dick Butcher was hooked into that. So they said, "We don't know where this Worlds' Fair's going to be, but we want to have a contest. We'll give a $100 and a dinner to whoever comes up with this idea." A hundred dollars and a dinner. So I came up with it. I had someone else deliver my drawings, 'cause I was afraid if they knew a Black man did it, I wouldn't win. Well, I won.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And it was a dome after the Seattle space needle.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Ok. Round dome, sun sphere, round, collect the sun, energizing it. Well, the guy from Techtronics was a member of the Oak Ridge Chamber. The Chamber was one of the sponsors of this award. Techtronics guy was a member of the Oak Ridge Chamber. I say that twice 'cause I want you to follow the scenario.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I won the idea. They put it in the paper. No picture.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Don't know why. Put pictures in the thing... it's a man winning. That's ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: There were other awards coming in second. A year and a half later, Techtronics comes up with the Sunsphere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Oh, you can't tell me with all that hype, media, and I won, that there wasn't some osmosis going on there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So some years later, my son gave me a picture of the Sunsphere and said, "Dad, you know you inspired that." Well, you know, Black history has always been, we do something, they take credit for it. They figure out how to kill what you've done and do that. I couldn't get angry so what I did was, when the press called me about it, I said, "Well, there is some similarities." I even gave them, "He said his is better than mine, obviously, because they chose it." And I let it go. But just recently, my son, along with the Knoxville mayor, had me down there and gave me special recognition for what I had done.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And people slowly hear the story. It was my dream to tell my dad that maybe I ... the Minter name could go down on that thing someday. It hasn't happened. I don't think it will until after I'm dead and gone, they'll probably do it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But I didn't design the Sunsphere. I did design the Solar, though. They look alike, smelled alike, sounded alike, But how in the hell could two people come up with the same project...
MR. MCDANIEL: Come up with the same thing...
MR. MINTER: A year and a half from each other and you not connect the dots.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness.
MR. MINTER: So, but anyway, this guy claimed he got his idea from Gatlinburg or someplace else.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: That's possible.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: If you could believe, you know, that, I got a horse I can trade with you. But anyway. I've enjoyed a life of creativity, challenging myself to become the best. But I was in the best city you could ever live in. That was a beautiful town.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because it was... it was... It had a culture, a part of Oak Ridge had a culture of creativity and innovation.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, part of it was bureaucracy, but...
MR. MINTER: But we had a diverse population that, if you pulled that chain hard enough, you could wake them up and cause them to listen. Biggest problem we have ever had, that we had a core of people who were trying to run the town and didn't know how.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And I'm talking about some people in the Chamber, and others, who claimed they were God's gift to economic development and it's still has not done much more that what it has today. You know, I proposed the first convention center for Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Chamber sent me a letter, loving me for it. Helped ...Got a grant for $800,000 for entrepreneurial building for the city.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I called the guy up who was Deputy Director of Commerce. He was a buddy. You know, when you're president of the Black mayors and city council, you got a rite of passage.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I called that up ... They could... Tom -- Can't think of his name but Tom. He was president of the chamber. They couldn't get their grant through USDA passed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I said, "Meet me in Chattanooga. Under Secretary Wilbur Hawkins is going to be there in a room. And you're paying for it." So they took a chance. We went there to Chattanooga and Wilbur said, "Your grant is being processed right now, thanks to Will Minter, he has talked us into it and let us know how valuable it is to Oak Ridge and we want to help you."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And Wilbur was there for a meeting, called us in and they left saying, "I can't believe this brother, an African American, pulled this off." Eight-hundred-and-something-thousand dollar grant that they couldn't move.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: A lot of people believed in me and I just relished the days. But my biggest project wasn't that. It was saving the Scarboro Community Center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: It burned down before I became elected and the city was supposed to build it back but they kept procrastinating. It went on for almost five or six, seven, eight years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: I don't know. And finally, when they were talking about doing it, it was never any money to re-do it 'cause the insurance money just wasn't enough to build a new center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, at that time, I was a budget whip. I knew where the money was. I knew all there was about the Scarborough budget and the city and I pulled off one of the biggest coups in my life.
MR. MCDANIEL: What'd you do?
MR. MINTER: Well, everybody on the City Council had voted, "We're not going to have any tax increase." And I agreed to that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: How can you not have a tax increase and fund building a building?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Well, with the help of the Man Upstairs, it came to me. Wait a minute! The funds we've been using are federal funds.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Whether we use it or lose it, doesn't matter. So, I put the motion on the board at a couple of slow city councilmen mentioned, "Oh, we can't have no budget." I said, "This isn't coming off the budget. This is off the budget. It will not affect this."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And the gentlemen said, "Will Minter is right. This is federal funds and it doesn't cause the taxes to go up or down."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: "It has to be used for projects of development."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Exactly.
MR. MINTER: What they call sharing, tax sharing. I'm trying to think of it now. Community development by grant money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I said, "There's not enough money in it, but we can borrow money against, that, can't we?" I'd already checked with Steve Jenkins and he said, "Yeah, you can borrow against it." And I said, "Ok." Pat Rush put the motion on the board, I second (claps hands)! Scarboro Community Center. Boy, would you believe I wasn't even invited back to the grand opening? How little we forget, but that's all right. I love it. I love it because I gave and I can set here and relish the fact that, when I look at that Center, I say, "Boy if they only knew that God gave me something to do something with that." So that was one of my greatest joy. But I guess my biggest joy was making sure my private life and public life included folks from all walks of life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Whenever I have a party at my house, and I had them frequently – gatherings, that's what I call them -- 'cause I didn't have a hobby. I'm president of the National Black Caucus, traveling everywhere. Hanging out with the president and vice presidents and doing things on the information highway and all of that stuff. Man, traveling with my job and then working city council business, I just didn't know anybody, personally. So I would invite everybody over to my house for Crazy Thursdays. They still remember that. Cocktail hour from six until six in the morning, on a Thursday, that meant you had to go to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Exactly.
MR. MINTER: But I had so many whites, my neighbors were Asian, they would come over, and Blacks and there was one place that you could come together and enjoy each other where there was no problems. I never had a problem with drugs or anything else. I never had a problem with drinking. We would make sure someone would drive home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I never had a problem. But people danced and hollered and screamed in my basement. I still can hear them today. In fact, I had one over here. You know when you get older, six to six doesn't work too well.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. MINTER: Those are the best days of my life was serving on the Oak Ridge City Council and a couple of times, I was the largest vote getter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank you, Will, so much, for taking time to talk with us. It has been... It's a fascinating story, your life. And I know it's had a huge impact on, not only our community, but Oak Ridge specifically and the people in Oak Ridge and we appreciate it.
MR. MINTER: Thank you and I will always cherish those days and fun that I had with so many different people. I miss them. I go back and just drive around just to look.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: You know, once I leave a situation, I don't go back (laughs) meddling, but I wish them well in their future and if ever I'm needed, I'm here. And keep history alive and tell the truth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank you so much.
MR. MINTER: Thank you.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF WILL D. MINTER, SR.
Interviewed by Keith McDaniel
October 8, 2013
MR. MCDANIEL: This is Keith McDaniel and today is October 8, 2013, and I am at the home of Will Minter here in Knoxville, I guess, Fountain City, Knoxville area. Mr. Minter, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us.
MR. MINTER: Thank you. It's always a pleasure to talk about Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Let's start at the beginning. Why don't you tell me where you were born and raised, something about your family.
MR. MINTER: Well, I was born in Knoxville, Tennessee. Six kids, two parents, eight of us. I was born in what they call Austin Homes. You might could say it was a gated community, very private, for two reasons. Number one, it was the low income projects -- gated community. Private? Yes, because no whites lived there, only Blacks could live there. It was completely segregated at that time.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now where... what part of Knoxville was that?
MR. MINTER: That's center of Knoxville, I guess you might call it. The center of town, it's near Main Street.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, what year were you born?
MR. MINTER: In 1946.
MR. MCDANIEL: 1946. So you're growing up ...
MR. MINTER: Baby boomer!
MR. MCDANIEL: ...in Knoxville.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now what did your mother and father do?
MR. MINTER: Well, my dad was a chef. He actually cooked at Andrew Johnson's and American Legion and Spike's Restaurant, and of course, the Miller's Building, the Valador Room, the top room there, the top place where people ate at that time. He was a chef and Mom was a stay-at-home. With six of us, it wasn't much of a choice, but she did do what they call "days work." That's where she would go off and work in whites' homes to clean up and things like that. And help raise their children.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So, that was our life. I like to tell people I slept three to a bed until the day I got married. And I still sleep on the edge of the bed now. My wife says, "Why are you over there?" Hell, I'm used to it. I'm safe.
MR. MCDANIEL: Hanging onto the edge, yeah.
MR. MINTER: I can sleep right on that edge.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness. So, you were the... you were one of six. Well, now you were the oldest or...?
MR. MINTER: No, I was the middle kid.
MR. MCDANIEL: Middle kid.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Where did you go to school?
MR. MINTER: I went to high school, elementary, Vine Junior. Greene School, Vine Junior and Austin High.
MR. MCDANIEL: You went to Austin High.
MR. MINTER: Which is now Austin-East. Left there, went to Knoxville College and went to UT [University of Tennessee].
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, when you went to Austin, was it an all-Black school?
MR. MINTER: Yes, it was. Things were segregated. I went there... I graduated from Austin in 1965 and, of course, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, so my contact with whites was very little other than to occasionally work in that environment. But I was very fortunate to work in that environment because I started out working, when I was 13, at Deane Hill Country Club.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Bus boy, cleaning tables, and stuff like that -- waiter, did a little bartending as I got older.
MR. MCDANIEL: So, you grew up in, really, in the Black community of Knoxville.
MR. MINTER: Certainly. It was very segregated and that's the way it was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... What did your parents teach you or talk to you about as far as relationship or interaction with whites?
MR. MINTER: Well, I tell you what; my dad was superintendent of Sunday schools for one of the largest churches in Knoxville at that time. Huge Sunday school class and he was the superintendent for well over 40 years. And, so, his teaching was around the Bible -- fairness, understanding people, standing up when others around you are laying down, doing the right thing, respecting others. We very seldom talked about civil rights. My dad was a do-er. When anyone was discriminated against, my dad would rise up and just do things. Wouldn't say that. He thought it was just the right thing to do. When the Clinton situation prevailed, my dad was a Mason and they all gathered to figure out how we were going to protect those students in Clinton.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And when a young football player was denied a chance to play at one of the county schools here in Knoxville, to play football, Dad went there on his own and stood up and got that young man in there to play.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: So my dad was more of a do-er. He wouldn't let us go out. He thought I was too young to go out and picket, but I snuck out the window to go downtown to take a quick look at the picket signs going up, because I was probably about 14 when a lot of that was going on and he was very concerned about protecting his family against it. But my daddy stood up, I was so proud of him. We were very poor, take the 'p' out of poor, I think that would... you know, six kids, three to a bed, right? But he was a very loving man so he taught us how to interact with ourselves and how to treat people. So that had nothing to do with color, it had to do with doing the right thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: How did that affect you? How did that influence you for the rest of your life? So far...
MR. MINTER: Well, there were two men in my life, well, actually three. And that's what I... I used to deliver the church bulletin with a man called Mr. Macadoo when I was 9 and 10. He dressed nice, looked nice, drove a good car. He worked at ALCOA and he would always pay me to help deliver the church newspaper, so I liked getting paid and I liked working. He taught me what it was going on in the outside world. We couldn't afford to go to restaurants, but he would take me. On Saturday when we'd finish, he'd take me for dessert. So, I got to see the old Rendezvous -- you know, back then, Blacks had a lot of buildings and places and things to do here in Knoxville. We had our own community. And we loved it, you know. Black doctors, Black dentists, Black hospitals -- or where they treated us -- restaurants, everything. We had it all. And, so, I got a chance to see things. With my dad teaching me fairness and all these other things. And then there was a guy called Mr. Robinson, Dave Robinson, tall, beautiful looking African American male teacher at Austin High School. He gave me the wake-up call because I wasn't the best of students. You might say I was a C-plus student, should have been an A student. But I was C-plus and he told me one day, "Mr. Minter!" And his shoes were so shiny you could see your face and he wore that blue suit. I even dress like him today. I just don't know, because he had that much on me. But he told me that I had a choice, that I was silly, having fun all the time because everyone laughed at me because I came from the projects, I was poor, didn't have a good shirt... only one or two shirts all year long, you know, to wear. So those who had a little bit more looked down on you. Similar to bullying, the way bullying is today, they did it really good. They ranked you. And so, Mr. Robinson told me that I could be somebody or I could act the fool for the rest of my life. Well, this thought of me being somebody. Man, that fired me up. That changed my life. Here is somebody looking like he is somebody telling me I can be somebody. And I separated myself from the others and I... they had this contest, or they had this group from UT coming over to our school looking for people to act at the Carousel Theatre. And I said, "I'll do it!" and I had never acted hardly any-- I was in church plays and stuff like that, but my daddy always said, "Son, you have the ability to communicate." He said, "Make sure that you always have facts behind you when you talk and that you have something worthwhile to say." So I think that stuck with me and then I went on to act at the Carousel Theatre.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, were you still in high school or were you in college?
MR. MINTER: In high school.
MR. MCDANIEL: In high school you acted at the Carousel.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, yeah, the theatre for children in the round at the theatre. So, I did that. Won the leading role. But one thing about it was, there were three African Americans. Two of them won the role for being the guard. I won the role for being the Magician in Aladdin which is, basically the lead role -- one of the lead roles. It was between Aladdin and the Magician where all of the talking parts occurred. But before that what inspired me to really try to win and win big was they laughed at us, the kids, mostly -- all white. This was the first time I'd seen so many white young people my same age -- high school. And they laughed at us saying, "Look at the color of his legs! They're Black!" And they laughed. Well, the other two guys almost said, "We're not coming back."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: As we walked back to Austin from UT, I said, "No, we can do this, guys. I don't think we should quit. I think we should go back and let them see who we really are."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I hate what they did. I really was so sad. It taught me how hurtful people can be when they talk about your race. And instead of letting it beat me down, I decided to go back and I ended up winning that part. And the guy who came in second shook my hands and we became the best of friends. So I realized, you know, when you stand up for things you really believe in, it doesn't matter their color is, they usually are going to like you because, guess what, they know you know something. And when two people know you know something, you can make something happen in the other world. So that's where my quest to become the best of what I am and what Mr. Robinson, Mr. Macadoo and my dad all combined to teach me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: My mama had a great deal of influence on me -- she knew how to throw a piece of kindling at me. (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's a whole different... That's a whole different ... keeping you in line.
MR. MINTER: Oh, that's a different world... Yeah. So... (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you graduated and then you went to UT?
MR. MINTER: I went to Knoxville College.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, you went to Knoxville College, that's right.
MR. MINTER: And I spent two years there and loved it. I excelled in terms of, not necessarily grades, because I was so busy catching up. But I didn't have a dime to go to school. My dad said there was no money but he would feed me and give me a roof over my head as long as I stayed in school. Wow! I was really sad about that because I thought he was going to pay my way because he'd tried to do that for my other two...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So, man, after I got over the self-pity, I went to work. I already had a job and was helping Dad and Mom out ever since I was 13. I would buy groceries with the extra money I made instead of putting it in my pocket. So, I got a job at the packing house, East Tennessee Packing House working from 6 in the evening to 6 in the morning.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And I... yeah. Made good money. Oh, I loved that. Steady job, too. And then I worked at the country club and so, as a result, I was able to do a lot of things there, at home, and then send myself to college. I think that's where I really learned leadership and standing up. After all, it was '65, '66 and '67 where we... Things start opening up for us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right...
MR. MINTER: And I began to speak out for things. And I was never afraid of whites like so many other people were around me. Because I'd already been poor; what could they take away from me? I think that's one of the drivers I've always had. I know how to live poorly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly. So, you went to Knoxville College for two years and then you...
MR. MINTER: I got married, at the time, moved to Oak Ridge because my wife at that time had a job in Roane County, teaching at Harriman High, I think it was, had a son on the way. And so I said, "Ok, I'll drop out of school and go to school at night." So I went to UT at night because couldn't do it at Knoxville College and I continued to take courses and I got a job at Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you. Ok.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, uh-huh.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was your... what was your first job at Y-12?
MR. MINTER: I was a records clerk.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah.
MR. MCDANIEL: And this was '67.
MR. MINTER: '67 when I started. And I thought ... One of the people I had bartended for at Deane Hill Country Club was a division director and his name was Ed Pluhar. I never will forget him. And he saw me in the hallway after they had hired me and said, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "Well, I got a job here, I'm waiting on an assignment." And he says, "You need to come and work for me." I said, "Ok." Looked like I had two offers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So he hired me out of the clerical pool, I think it was, and hired me into what they call the Records... Plant Records. Thousands and thousands of secret documents. (laughs) That's where they kept them, accounted for them -- hundreds of thousands of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, what did you study in college?
MR. MINTER: Business management, commerce, and industrial management at UT. So I'm going to school at night and, you know...
MR. MCDANIEL: Working during the day, your wife's teaching school in Harriman and you're... got a little one...
MR. MINTER: And then she lost her job because it was the first year and she was pregnant, so they didn't hire her back.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So I ended up doing it all. So I would bartend at night and work at Y-12.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you still bartending at Deane Hill?
MR. MINTER: Yes. On and off. I stopped that because it got to be too much and began to just do private parties. And, you know, life got a little better for me. I saw that most, basically, people didn't have hardly any college around me but one other young lady. There were only two of us out of about 25 that were African American in the whole group. Were very few African Americans on a salary. Most of them were craft and union workers and laborers and things like that. So things hadn't changed much.
MR. MCDANIEL: What was the culture like for Blacks in the late '60s at Y-12 or in Oak Ridge.
MR. MINTER: Well, it wasn't... It was good and bad. Number one, you could... there was a push to try to increase employment. Now this was before Affirmative Action but right after the Equal Opportunity, so we had ourselves -- whites just wouldn't communicate with you. It didn't look like you were going places. And ...
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right... But there was beginning to be some opportunities, though, weren't there?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, and you could see them; they were remote and difficult. But many whites just didn't socialize with you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: We ate together. We tried to break away. I was very fortunate 'cause I didn't fear communicating with them. I had my problems, yeah, where I could see, I was in a meeting and somebody asked me what did I want to do and I said I'd love to have Mr. Riley's job someday. Well, he was our supervisor. Boy, he got mad! He treated me so bad.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did he, really?
MR. MINTER: Yeah! I mean I thought that, you know, he was older, he'd be leaving, I'd like to have his job one day. I didn't mean to imply I was going to take it from him. Well, I did.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Three years later, he got deathly sick and I ended up becoming supervisor of Plant Records. You know. But he didn't know... well, yeah, he did. You know, I filed a complaint against him for treating me like that. Didn't go anywhere, they slapped his hand and told him to watch what he was saying. Because my division director, who I knew -- I thought this guy could fire me, I didn't know, you know, for saying something like that. And I was by myself. It didn't bother me much that I had to turn him in. I did and next thing I know, they were looking around for a replacement and I had worked so hard to let them know I'm available and so, as a result, I got his job. But on his deathbed, guess what? I went by to visit Mr. Riley.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And he told me he was sorry.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. None of the other employees hardly went by to see him. I did. That's the kind of person I am. I've always been like that, you know, just because we different don't mean I shouldn't care about you. So I'd use that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly. The, well that was your raising.
MR. MINTER: Yeah, I think you might say that.
MR. MCDANIEL: It was the way you were raised. (electronic noises) Go ahead... you need to do something...
MR. MINTER: A Skype call! A Skype call! (laughs)
MR. MCDANIEL: So you became the supervisor of Records there at Y-12. Tell me about the rest of your career.
MR. MINTER: Oh, I went on and took over Engineering Services. Went back to UT saying, "Wow, I'm in engineering. I need some science." (laughs) I was in Industrial Management. And I said, “Wow,” and I took over that, did a lot of innovations. Brought the first use of barcoding. The use of optical discs, where you digitize the engineering drawings. I led the way with another guy and we traveled around the country to bring that system in. I joined a professional organization. (electronic noise)
MR. MCDANIEL: That's ok. Go ahead.
MR. MINTER: Anyway, I got a lot of opportunities to be creative. I started the first professional chapter of the Association of Records Managers.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Uh-huh. And I joined. I was the first member to join a professional records-keeping organization. You might say it was information management 'cause that's where it evolved to. At that time, computers were very limited so it was managing paperwork and then it got to be managing information and then, of course, the fast computers took over the sharing of information.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: So I was in charge of the Archives and Records Department, went over to be in charge of Engineering Services. They had what they called a combined management and centralized organization, so they pooled everybody together. I took over another organization, the Document Control Centers and Engineering Services. Moved out of the record-keeping business into engineering services and made a lot of new innovative increases then. In fact, my performance rating was off the chart. And I also managed the HFIR situation. When the mercury leak occurred, I was on the mercury team.
MR. MCDANIEL: Were you?
MR. MINTER: In charge of gathering all the information related to this critical situation that had reached the press regarding the mercury being released.
MR. MCDANIEL: Who was leading that effort?
MR. MINTER: Bill Wilcox.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's right, that's what I thought. Bill was leading...
MR. MINTER: Bill Wilcox. And I was on his team. In fact, he was the one that called me at 2 or 3 in the morning...
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: ...asking me to open up the classified vaults. Oh, my God! Well, I knew who Bill Wilcox was. He's one hell of... I love that guy! He's one hell of a no nonsense operational guy.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: I even learned strategic planning from him. And so, I showed up out there and got those records together and I knew more than everybody 'cause, you who know the information, you know, you know the facts.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So I was able to put it together, put a database. I had a team working 24/7, man. We were getting it, trying to get all that information together so that the proper people could make decisions as to about what really happened, how much, where'd it come from and where'd it go?
MR. MCDANIEL: Where'd it go...
MR. MINTER: So I had the records and I helped pull it together. Got my first really big company award.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, I'd gotten a couple more, but yeah, it made me feel so good I said, "Getting an award is really nice." Bill gave us that award and I enjoyed that. Went on to help HFIR in their critical situation when they were shut down. Again, it was over the document control center. The reason they were shut down was because of paper trail. There I was again.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Then there was a big cesium leak, I think, in Atlanta, one of the subdivisions of a subcontractor. You want me to...
MR. MCDANIEL: No, that's fine.
MR. MINTER: So I went and worked in Atlanta with a team of people pulling together all the records for this sterilization center that had leaked some things. Got another award for that. And so they were beginning to come in and I had a good reign of moving up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And then I left that group, joining engineering technology to write technical procedures, because I had two supervisors who just were so jealous of my go-getting attitude. I, you know, I let the employees rate me when we did performance rating -- and I used to teach performance improvement to other managers so I let the employees rate me -- and it was so good it just intimidated those people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Really...
MR. MINTER: And, of course, I'm outward spoken and very, you might... aggressive? In a nice way, not intimidating, 'cause employees loved me. You know, I believed in fairness, you know, on the one hand. And I put people in a box. I made you like me. I gave you every reason in the world to know that I wanted to personalize my relationship with people. And I always did that. And I figured that if I personalized my relationship I could shoot straight with you.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: You know, about your absentee problem. You know, help me solve it. So I did all those training courses I could take and I started teaching most of the ones I take... took and so I knew how to use the very best to communicate.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Went on from there, I headed up what they call technical procedures. I didn't like sitting down writing those procedures but I was good at it. For the safety-related procedures at HFIR, the High-Flux Reactor, I wrote them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: Along with my team. Saw a bunch of researchers in engineering technology with no funding.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I brought them funding.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Next thing they said, "Wow! This guy is bringing it and I'm hiring the PhDs that are not..." And so they started recognizing me and they let me do what I wanted to do. I remember the division director said, "This guy's bringing in this money." And they didn't know what to do with me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: They didn't let me join the development team, but they called me that. They had these guys over there that was in charge of development that means they're really out selling the skills of the researchers to DOE and to the outside world.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: Then, I got into this thing that I recommended that all the government laboratories was in trouble with their procedures and policies. So I said, "Well why don't you have a collaborating committee to help write policies among each other." Wow! They took that and it went. And I was the secretary.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really.
MR. MINTER: And the way it was written was that the people who were on the committee had to be one remove from the president or director. So that meant that Y-12... that all the deputy directors had to be... attend the meetings or something like that. Or the directors.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And there I was the secretary so I traveled all over the country and the different laboratories, just taking notes and helping guide them into it. Then, they came up with this thing called technology transfer and I said, "God, you guys are all wrong."
MR. MCDANIEL: Hold on just a second.
MR. MINTER: So about this time, when technology transfer was becoming a buzzword around Oak Ridge, I had a private life. My son had come to me and told me that a lot of the kids at Oak Ridge school system, they just didn't seem to have anything -- any reaching out to them. And I needed to do something about it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: I'm saying to myself, "What in the world can I do other than go over there?" So I attended some PTA meetings, actually. Heard 'em talking. Still, I could see what was going on, but it was just so hard to figure out what to do on the outside.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, an African American had run for school board, couple of years ago. One of my best friends, John Parnell, and he lost by 40 or 50 votes, citywide election, which was unheard of for an African American to win in Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Council was by district so, pretty much, if you came from a Black... 'the' Black district, you could pretty much win, even though they voted on you at-large, you still had to come from that district and if you won that district, you generally won at-large. If nobody got near you, you won. But if it's 50-50 then you went on, you know, to run at-large. That's the way it works. School board was strictly at-large, so it was a tough nut to crack. So, the guys were trying to get somebody to run and somebody said, "Will, why don't you run?" I said, "You've got to be kidding." And I went home and I thought about it and it didn't take me long, I said, "Ok, let's go get 'em!"
MR. MCDANIEL: Now what year was this?
MR. MINTER: 1983.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok, so in '83.
MR. MINTER: I lost by 35 points the first time, but there was some trickery going on. There was supposed to be three seats up and four people running.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: But the guy who was moving out of town decided not to...
MR. MCDANIEL: Not to go...
MR. MINTER: Give up his seat like he'd already been talking about. Everybody knew he was moving out of town, why didn't he give his seat up, you know, and let the electorate choose who they wanted? He didn't do that. So I got close, but not close enough.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So, they made it clear they was not going to appoint me even though I got the most votes. That's all right. I rallied the community and everybody felt like this man, perhaps, should have won 'cause he ran against incumbents and got that close. Ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Newspaper endorsed me. Got together with the community relations council, a lot of the people in the community rallied behind me and I got appointed by one vote.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, from then on out, I didn't have any more... (laughs) competition anymore. Because people were afraid to run against me. I'd team with Bill Wilcox to have instituted, along with ... Bill Smallridge, rather...
MR. MCDANIEL: Bob Smallridge...
MR. MINTER: Yeah, Bob Smallridge rather, the first ten-year strategic plan.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. That's where I told you Bill Wilcox taught me strategic planning.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: And I learned it so well that I co-chaired the first Oak Ridge High School strategic plan with Bob Smallridge and myself and Bill Wilcox as our technical advisor and I brought Bill to the table.
MR. MCDANIEL: Of course, of course.
MR. MINTER: And they voted for it. I became a hit with Oak Ridge schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, how long did you serve on the school board?
MR. MINTER: I served '83 to '89.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you? Ok.
MR. MINTER: That's six years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Stepped down because they had voted to go completely at-large for city council race.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: Well, there was no African American going to win citywide. It just wasn't going to happen.
MR. MCDANIEL: And that was about the same time that they had... well, previously they'd gone from 12 to 7, you know, city councilmen.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. They reduced the number and then went city wide.
MR. MCDANIEL: Went city wide.
MR. MINTER: Oh, man, that lowered the odds significantly.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I didn't like that and I knew I could win. When you have done as much as I have done for the school system and my leadership, my skills. I'd even become regional vice president of the National Black Caucus of School Board Members.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And I was pushing computers in our schools, technology. Supporting SECME, Southeastern Consortium of Minority Engineers. Helped get them... got them funded. I cut programs, I increased some.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I also left my footprint on the schools by passing -- I think my last thing was to pass a resolution saying that as long as this school stays in the top 10 in the state, so should our teachers' pay.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: I think that resolution is still there somewhere. (laughs) I was very proud of that because I wanted to have pay-for-performance. Because I couldn't crack the other kind. But I figure like this, if you're still up here, you ought to stay up here, salary-wise, because I do believe in pay-for-performance. Went on to run for city council and won.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Meanwhile, back at the Lab, I'm over there trying to tell our development staff -- program developers -- you guys are going out to all these big companies, they can steal all the secrets from us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Just like the foreign countries can. Industrial espionage is everywhere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: They don't need us like the small businesses do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Oh, man, they don't have it. And they just pushed me to the side. Well, I did it. My boss at the time was Dr. Trivelpiece. He wasn't my boss, he was lab director.
MR. MCDANIEL: Lab director, sure.
MR. MINTER: Hazel O'Leary was the Secretary at the time. So I went in and recruited small, minority business consortium, small whites, Black, didn't matter... but I made sure it included minorities.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And they said I broke the record in the number of corporative research and development agreements.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: That was technology transfer at the Lab, I broke the record. Signed up six in six months. Hazel O'Leary loved it so well, Dr. Trivelpiece along with Joe La Grone, we all met in Washington to talk about hosting the first national conference with DOE and I got a chance to chair that and I thought I had, "Man, I'm in high cotton!" the right kind of cotton for them to recognize me for holding the very first and see, so, Dr. Trivelpiece believed in me and didn't like the way the technology transfer were working at the other sites that well that he requested I come on his staff. Would you believe that I was a spokesperson for the Oak Ridge National Laboratory for the super conductor super collider.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Got letters to prove it! (laughter) I travelled with Edward Newman three or four different colleges – Stonybrook, I remember and then there was two others -- where we spoke on what technology was coming out of the super conductor super collider and how it was going to help us.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And the Texas Commission on the super conductor paid our way, reimbursed the Lab for my participation. Now, grant you, I'm not a scientist but I did take geology because I wanted to understand science a little more so that I could speak. And I'm going around and these guys, and, you know, I'm poor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: You know, I making a little money then... (laughs) I've still got a poor mind. I was saying, "These guys are ordering wine, expensive wine." [Of] Course the Texas Commission was paying for it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But I'm hanging with Edward Newman. I was so proud to be with him. I lost the picture and I was looking for it, but I did find the letters of me doing that, thanking me for doing it. But speaking on behalf of the Lab, nobody knew I was doing it except for Dr. Trivelpiece.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, really?
MR. MINTER: I thought he was crazy for assigning to me. I'm not a PhD. You know, I'm saying, "What in the hell?" Well, I guess my dad was right. I studied night and day. I knew that I could articulate to the public. Now I just needed to understand. So I studied night and... You would not believe the old burning of the midnight oil trying to learn all of how that ring was going to do what it's going to do and how that thing worked. And I did understand it. And I realized that a lot of scientists who were in charge of projects didn't have the scientific background of the research they was in charge of.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But they had the ability to understand, put together, make decisions and lead. So I figured it out, that you can lead projects. So I kept taking project management at the same time and Dr. Trivelpiece came to me and said, "Will, I can't have you reporting to me anymore." I thought I was being demoted. He said, "No, I can't sign your time card!" (Laughs, claps!) I thought it was funny. So I worked for Tom Rowe and meanwhile, back on city council, I helped get the first -- by the way, a little known history fact -- Black history fact -- I led the way for the Martin Luther King holiday for the Oak Ridge schools.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: First system, first government entity in East Tennessee to recognize that holiday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: In fact, I think it was one of the first, probably one of the first in the state. And people were shocked. It took me three times to get that vote. And I remember how I got it. There was a guy named J.C. Scarborough. I needed one more vote and I couldn't crack it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: There was no way I could crack it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, was this city council or is this...?
MR. MINTER: Oak Ridge school system.
MR. MCDANIEL: School system, right.
MR. MINTER: When I was on the school board, right. I won that thing. I took him golfing. I never golfed...
MR. MCDANIEL: J.C.?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, J.C. Scarborough. Everybody thought he was a bigot, old man, but he wasn't. He was older, senior, but he was the most loveable man you could ever do.
MR. MCDANIEL: He was just an old country boy, wasn't he?
MR. MINTER: Oh, I couldn't stand him at first, but I realized, "No, I can't..." this is not me to not stand somebody.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Took him golfing 'cause he liked golfing. I couldn't golf. Guy named Larry Gibson gave me a lesson and let's see, I rented the shoes, I got some clubs from Larry. He gave me a quick lesson. I went out with J.C. and we started talking about our religious background. And I told him my dad was this and that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And I think I beat J.C.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: 'Cause he kept moving that ball. Now, I know enough about the game, if you're over... you don't pick up that ball and drop it anywhere. I hung with... I won't say that I beat him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I feel like I did 'cause we stopped keeping score. But I was 'cause I'm very competitive. Got back and he voted for Martin Luther King holiday. I went out and boo-hooed like a baby.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And to this day, when I think about how you can win people over, you know, you just got to sit and talk.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so, meanwhile, I did the same thing on the Oak Ridge city council. So we got it. And it sort of put me in position in the state: I'm on City Council, Maynard Jackson nominated me to serve as secretary to the National Black Caucus of Local Elected Officials. That's all the Black mayors and city councils all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Wow.
MR. MINTER: I had no idea what I was getting into. (laughs) Meanwhile, back in the Lab, I'm in this technology transfer business. The labs were separating from each the other. They wanted their own contract.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So when they won that, Dr. Trivelpiece said, "Oh, my God, we got this small business and education program. Minter, would you head it up?" I said, "I'll be more than glad to, sir. No problem." 'Cause any job he gave me I just enjoyed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Right about that time, we get a call from New York, the city, and some businesses looking for technology transfer, how that they could use it. I ended up going to New York to help the City of New York in Harlem figure out how to use government technology.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And Bob Farrell and myself, Bob was a researcher, we went to New York. He went to Harlem, I went to Wall Street. I always tell people that. (laughs) We met with Congressman Wrangle and other city officials and we were designing ways to help improve Harlem. Stuff that you would not believe of. And I was a part of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: What would your father have thought about that? Or was he, he wasn't still living?
MR. MINTER: Yes, he was. My father just died a few years ago at 95.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, he was. So what did ... what did your parents think about what you were doing?
MR. MINTER: My daddy said, "You're always into something." He would always say that, "Boy, you are into something." And he was very proud. I knew he was.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I was the middle kid, the one most likely to get in trouble, the one most likely to do something out of the box.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: And so he kept close reins on me, but despite it all, he asked that I be executor of his will and everything else, so I was kind of like the chosen one for him.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: And I wanted to make him proud of me. He was slow to say, "Good job." He said it when you really earned it.
MR. MCDANIEL: When you really earned it.
MR. MINTER: But he came to every kick off I had in Oak Ridge for every election. Every last one of them.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: He would get mama and say, "Let's go and support our boy." And he'd come down. Good looking man. And, you know, I didn't look so good, so I liked having my daddy there. (laughs) And I always made sure my staff, my home, events that I had, was very diverse.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Weinberg's been in my basement. I had a lot of the so-called big whops -- big wigs...
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, did you work with Weinberg? Was ... or...?
MR. MINTER: Weinberg had retired.
MR. MCDANIEL: He'd retired by that time.
MR. MINTER: But not when I first got there. He was still there. But he'd retired and I just looked up to this great man 'cause I did the history thing, I looked up.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, exactly.
MR. MINTER: But at the time I began to do a lot of things in the community, I was involved with the National Black Caucus. And then I got elected president of the National Black Caucus and, man, it scared the daylights out of me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right? Wow...
MR. MINTER: Because now, I'm over all the Black mayors and city councilmen all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so, as a result, I'm traveling around. The Lab understood it. And I got a chance to do things that I thought I would never do.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: When Nelson Mandela came to this country right after being released from prison in South Africa, I was invited to a reception. And Union Carbide -- no, not Union Carbide, I'm sorry -- Lockheed-Martin had a table at that event and I told them I was going and they asked me to sit at their table.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And so, I was there with Gordon Fee. In fact, we talked about it when Nelson Mandela was sick, how we were there and I've got videos of it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, man! We saw Nelson Mandela and it was like I had died and gone to heaven to see somebody who had given up his life. In fact, Gordon Fee and I were just talking about that just a month or two ago when Nelson Mandela got sick and was almost dying.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And so I got a chance to do things that I thought... Union... Um, Lockheed-Martin sponsored my opening reception. Man, this is 6,000 elected officials.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I realized that when I got a call from Leslie Hermann, who was assistant to the president, inviting me to the Rose Garden, I'm thinking, "What the hell is going on?" I'm... come on! I got elected to the National League of Cities Board of Directors. First Oak Ridger to ever serve on the National League of Cities Board of Directors. This is all cities, all over the country.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I could not believe it. And then, I was asked to meet with the president the night before, it was a Monday; I got a call on a Sunday. Man, again, I'm going crazy. What in the world is going on?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Inviting me to meet with the president, Bill Clinton, in the White House, a day before his State of the Union address on a Tuesday.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: First of all, I said, "Man, I got to pay my way up there?" I said, "The city needs to do this. I don't need to pay my way to go to this. You guys, this is too much here." So I called the city clerk on a Saturday and she said, "Yes, I'll get your papers ready. You go ahead and get your ticket, we'll get you out of here.” So I flew up Monday morning. Of course, they had told me, his presidential aide had told me, I can bring four other people.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: So I said, "Man!" So I brought an African American attorney, a former gang member, 'Gator.' I don't know Gator's name to this day, but talk every now and then. I can find him, he's in Chicago. He had become renowned for stopping gangs and helping people transition.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: And the subject that the president, Bill Clinton, wanted us to talk about, was "Three Strikes You Were Out."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: 'Cause that was a bad thing.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I'm trying to figure out - I'm on a national level, how do I...? How can I tell people in Oak Ridge what I'm doing? I would try, but, you know, you'd almost appear like you were bragging, so I didn't say a lot.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: But I made national news on me. And I led the delegation. I got Jesse Jackson to come, too. They all looked up to me.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I got 6,000 folks.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: The largest body of elected officials were the mayors and city councils all over the country, African American. So, I had a little power.
MR. MCDANIEL: You were a player.
MR. MINTER: I played. I played.
MR. MCDANIEL: At that point, you were a player.
MR. MINTER: God... The three men in my life taught me how to be fair, how to be adventurous, go places I normally would not go, and how to stand up for what I believed in and that I was just as equal as them. So in the White House, I just told Bill Clinton exactly what I thought.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, did you?
MR. MINTER: Yeah, about three strikes. You can't support that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Of course, little did I know he didn't support it anyway.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, right.
MR. MINTER: You steal a pizza, you pull a purse, you steal a car, you were out.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: For the rest of your life. Don't make sense. But, you know, Republicans have a tendency to be extreme... oh! So anyway, I had a chance to brief him on that and, later on that year, I was called to ask, help draft the Affirmative Action plan for the U.S. Government. Did that. While at the same time I was serving on the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights state advisory team so I was getting to be one who understood civil rights, the difference between Affirmative Action and other things, so
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, you know, I understand it. So all of these things was just, I was in a whirlwind.
MR. MCDANIEL: I'm sure.
MR. MINTER: I have no hobby. I'm...
MR. MCDANIEL: You barely can do your job.
MR. MINTER: At the time, I ... my wife, at that time, was very sick, had just withdrawn, and so we decided to go our separate ways. But we stayed strong. My son said, "I'll stay with you, Dad." And so, I ended up a single parent. I was just everywhere doing things for others. And I always remember God loves a cheerful giver, 'cause I'm one hell of a giver. Folks thought I had money. Hell, I was giving it away, how could I have it. I was donating here and there and I dressed nice because of Mr. Robinson and I felt good because of him and I was fair, but still, you know... So I began to raise money for organizations. I think I became one of the largest African American fundraisers in East Tennessee and I relished that because I wanted other people to do it. So I would say, you know, I'm good at it. Come join me, you know. We need more that's going to do it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Oak Ridge gave me that opportunity to do it. I couldn't have done this in any other... Well, I probably could have, but let's just say I was able to do it in Oak Ridge because I stood up and they listened.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: An intelligent community. And that's one of the things that I love so much about Oak Ridge. The level of intelligence was very high. If you could... If we had TV like we do over in Knoxville, you can get your message out in Oak Ridge quickly and they would make a quick decision on fairness, for the most part.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: We had our problems. I remember one time when I was elected vice mayor of the city. It was my second term. I think I was one of the highest vote gets. They made me vice mayor.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: First African American to win at-large. First African American vice mayor and I made them proud of me. I kept it strictly business.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I did all I could. I developed the first Youth Advisory Board.
MR. MCDANIEL: Did you?
MR. MINTER: I think it's still going on.
MR. MCDANIEL: It is still going on.
MR. MINTER: It is? You check it out! I put that resolution on the table and got them funded and went around and sold it to the students and they loved it. Then, I saw we were having problems with our budget, with operations and with economic development, so I established the first committees. The budget committee? I sent that resolution up. The operations committee and economic development committee. And I chaired the economic development committee. I think the first economic development summit, I recommended it. And the big subject was rooftops! How do we, you know, make a better mall or have this, you know. So I went through all of that and served there and enjoyed it. Introduced new some things that frightened a lot of people. You may have heard of Pathway, this was a new attraction at the museum.
MR. MCDANIEL: Oh, is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. You would love it. I got all the hype, all the press. It scared Knoxville because it was this place where kids can go into a virtual reality situation and play games while they learn science.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And there was this escalator to it and it was a round dome-like.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right, that's right. Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: By the way, there was a little bit of history that you didn't know and I always like to tell people 'cause it was an early thing, before I got into politics. I won the best idea for the 1982 Worlds' Fair.
MR. MCDANIEL: No, really?
MR. MINTER: Yes. It was called a Solar Dome. Now, why did I tell you that?
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Solar Dome, Sunsphere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Yeah. 1979, The Oak Ridger had a contest along with Union Planters bank.
MR. MCDANIEL: Ok.
MR. MINTER: Dick Butcher was hooked into that. So they said, "We don't know where this Worlds' Fair's going to be, but we want to have a contest. We'll give a $100 and a dinner to whoever comes up with this idea." A hundred dollars and a dinner. So I came up with it. I had someone else deliver my drawings, 'cause I was afraid if they knew a Black man did it, I wouldn't win. Well, I won.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: And it was a dome after the Seattle space needle.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: Ok. Round dome, sun sphere, round, collect the sun, energizing it. Well, the guy from Techtronics was a member of the Oak Ridge Chamber. The Chamber was one of the sponsors of this award. Techtronics guy was a member of the Oak Ridge Chamber. I say that twice 'cause I want you to follow the scenario.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: I won the idea. They put it in the paper. No picture.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Don't know why. Put pictures in the thing... it's a man winning. That's ok.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: There were other awards coming in second. A year and a half later, Techtronics comes up with the Sunsphere.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Oh, you can't tell me with all that hype, media, and I won, that there wasn't some osmosis going on there.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure, exactly.
MR. MINTER: So some years later, my son gave me a picture of the Sunsphere and said, "Dad, you know you inspired that." Well, you know, Black history has always been, we do something, they take credit for it. They figure out how to kill what you've done and do that. I couldn't get angry so what I did was, when the press called me about it, I said, "Well, there is some similarities." I even gave them, "He said his is better than mine, obviously, because they chose it." And I let it go. But just recently, my son, along with the Knoxville mayor, had me down there and gave me special recognition for what I had done.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. And people slowly hear the story. It was my dream to tell my dad that maybe I ... the Minter name could go down on that thing someday. It hasn't happened. I don't think it will until after I'm dead and gone, they'll probably do it.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: But I didn't design the Sunsphere. I did design the Solar, though. They look alike, smelled alike, sounded alike, But how in the hell could two people come up with the same project...
MR. MCDANIEL: Come up with the same thing...
MR. MINTER: A year and a half from each other and you not connect the dots.
MR. MCDANIEL: My goodness.
MR. MINTER: So, but anyway, this guy claimed he got his idea from Gatlinburg or someplace else.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: That's possible.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: If you could believe, you know, that, I got a horse I can trade with you. But anyway. I've enjoyed a life of creativity, challenging myself to become the best. But I was in the best city you could ever live in. That was a beautiful town.
MR. MCDANIEL: Because it was... it was... It had a culture, a part of Oak Ridge had a culture of creativity and innovation.
MR. MINTER: Yes.
MR. MCDANIEL: Now, part of it was bureaucracy, but...
MR. MINTER: But we had a diverse population that, if you pulled that chain hard enough, you could wake them up and cause them to listen. Biggest problem we have ever had, that we had a core of people who were trying to run the town and didn't know how.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And I'm talking about some people in the Chamber, and others, who claimed they were God's gift to economic development and it's still has not done much more that what it has today. You know, I proposed the first convention center for Oak Ridge.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: Yeah. Chamber sent me a letter, loving me for it. Helped ...Got a grant for $800,000 for entrepreneurial building for the city.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I called the guy up who was Deputy Director of Commerce. He was a buddy. You know, when you're president of the Black mayors and city council, you got a rite of passage.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I called that up ... They could... Tom -- Can't think of his name but Tom. He was president of the chamber. They couldn't get their grant through USDA passed.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I said, "Meet me in Chattanooga. Under Secretary Wilbur Hawkins is going to be there in a room. And you're paying for it." So they took a chance. We went there to Chattanooga and Wilbur said, "Your grant is being processed right now, thanks to Will Minter, he has talked us into it and let us know how valuable it is to Oak Ridge and we want to help you."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And Wilbur was there for a meeting, called us in and they left saying, "I can't believe this brother, an African American, pulled this off." Eight-hundred-and-something-thousand dollar grant that they couldn't move.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: A lot of people believed in me and I just relished the days. But my biggest project wasn't that. It was saving the Scarboro Community Center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Really?
MR. MINTER: It burned down before I became elected and the city was supposed to build it back but they kept procrastinating. It went on for almost five or six, seven, eight years.
MR. MCDANIEL: Is that right?
MR. MINTER: I don't know. And finally, when they were talking about doing it, it was never any money to re-do it 'cause the insurance money just wasn't enough to build a new center.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: So, at that time, I was a budget whip. I knew where the money was. I knew all there was about the Scarborough budget and the city and I pulled off one of the biggest coups in my life.
MR. MCDANIEL: What'd you do?
MR. MINTER: Well, everybody on the City Council had voted, "We're not going to have any tax increase." And I agreed to that.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: How can you not have a tax increase and fund building a building?
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Well, with the help of the Man Upstairs, it came to me. Wait a minute! The funds we've been using are federal funds.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Whether we use it or lose it, doesn't matter. So, I put the motion on the board at a couple of slow city councilmen mentioned, "Oh, we can't have no budget." I said, "This isn't coming off the budget. This is off the budget. It will not affect this."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: And the gentlemen said, "Will Minter is right. This is federal funds and it doesn't cause the taxes to go up or down."
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: "It has to be used for projects of development."
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure. Exactly.
MR. MINTER: What they call sharing, tax sharing. I'm trying to think of it now. Community development by grant money.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure, sure.
MR. MINTER: So, I said, "There's not enough money in it, but we can borrow money against, that, can't we?" I'd already checked with Steve Jenkins and he said, "Yeah, you can borrow against it." And I said, "Ok." Pat Rush put the motion on the board, I second (claps hands)! Scarboro Community Center. Boy, would you believe I wasn't even invited back to the grand opening? How little we forget, but that's all right. I love it. I love it because I gave and I can set here and relish the fact that, when I look at that Center, I say, "Boy if they only knew that God gave me something to do something with that." So that was one of my greatest joy. But I guess my biggest joy was making sure my private life and public life included folks from all walks of life.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right.
MR. MINTER: Whenever I have a party at my house, and I had them frequently – gatherings, that's what I call them -- 'cause I didn't have a hobby. I'm president of the National Black Caucus, traveling everywhere. Hanging out with the president and vice presidents and doing things on the information highway and all of that stuff. Man, traveling with my job and then working city council business, I just didn't know anybody, personally. So I would invite everybody over to my house for Crazy Thursdays. They still remember that. Cocktail hour from six until six in the morning, on a Thursday, that meant you had to go to work.
MR. MCDANIEL: Right. Exactly.
MR. MINTER: But I had so many whites, my neighbors were Asian, they would come over, and Blacks and there was one place that you could come together and enjoy each other where there was no problems. I never had a problem with drugs or anything else. I never had a problem with drinking. We would make sure someone would drive home.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: I never had a problem. But people danced and hollered and screamed in my basement. I still can hear them today. In fact, I had one over here. You know when you get older, six to six doesn't work too well.
MR. MCDANIEL: That's true.
MR. MINTER: Those are the best days of my life was serving on the Oak Ridge City Council and a couple of times, I was the largest vote getter.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank you, Will, so much, for taking time to talk with us. It has been... It's a fascinating story, your life. And I know it's had a huge impact on, not only our community, but Oak Ridge specifically and the people in Oak Ridge and we appreciate it.
MR. MINTER: Thank you and I will always cherish those days and fun that I had with so many different people. I miss them. I go back and just drive around just to look.
MR. MCDANIEL: Sure.
MR. MINTER: You know, once I leave a situation, I don't go back (laughs) meddling, but I wish them well in their future and if ever I'm needed, I'm here. And keep history alive and tell the truth.
MR. MCDANIEL: Well, thank you so much.
MR. MINTER: Thank you.
[End of Interview]