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I have one tuning gig that is on the unique side, I believe. In downtown San Diego, there is a dueling piano bar called the Shout!House. There are four of these clubs across the country, from what I understand, and they are committed to sticking with acoustic pianos.

The club here has two 9 year-old Kohler & Campbell 6 foot grands that get played an average of six hours a night, seven nights a week, from the time they were new. Almost all of the players are roadhouse players, and they have some novel ways of abusing the pianos: they slam the fallboards up(they removed the bumpers for this) as a means of getting the crowd clapping; three or four times a night, several of the wait staff climb up on the lids and dance; and, a couple of times a night, all four of the pianists on shift climb on the lids and beat on the edges with drumsticks and jump up and down on them in rhythm(imagine two 200lb guys jumping up and down on the lid of a grand). Between sheer metal fatigue and the players playing *hard* on these pianos, they break an average of four strings a week. Here's a photo of a typical night at the club:

And here's what I do *every* Thursday:

(That's my 36 year-old Hale extension hammer, BTW)

So yeah, I tune them and replace broken strings *weekly*, and they pay me well: I make $12K a year, just from that job.

The downstage edges of the lids look like someone went along them with a chainsaw and chewed them up, so now they're edged with black duct tape.

The bichord and trichord wedge dampers have deep grooves worn in the outer sides where they rest on the outer unison strings, and will need to be replaced very soon; they don't dampen very well anymore.

One of the owners took care of the pianos for the first seven years, until he got burned out on it, then they hired me. He routinely reshaped the hammers, but had no formal training in it. Needless to say, the hammers now have a somewhat triangular profile and an almost flat striking point. If they don;t decide to retire these pianos in the near future, I'll be hanging new hammers soon. Thinking of going with complete assemblies to lessen the down time for replacement.

One bit of accidental luck they had in buying these particular pianos is that all of the plain wire strings are single-strung. When they pop a string, they only lose one instead of two. It makes string replacement a relative pain - they're not only looped, but double-looped at the hitch pins.

I think I'm the only one involved who thinks about this, but I worry that one of these days the legs are going to blow out from under one of the pianos while they're dancing or jumping up and down on them.

...One bit of accidental luck they had in buying these particular pianos is that all of the plain wire strings are single-strung. When they pop a string, they only lose one instead of two. It makes string replacement a relative pain - they're not only looped, but double-looped at the hitch pins..

I think this is perfect. As you are regularly replacing 4 strings every week, in your situation, I would come prepared. I would have a bundle of strings along, of all the gauges that break. They would be cut to approximate length in the shop, with pre-made double loops. Then, in the club, simply slap them on.

Ok, that's abuse. Sorry, it's not a respectful way to treat an instrument!

I have to say, I was appalled when I first started doing this, but not so much anymore. Yes, it's rough on the pianos. OTOH, there are ~500 people, *every* night who pay a cover just because there are REAL pianos being played here, so I see it as a net positive for promoting pianos.

The owners paid $6K apiece for these pianos 9 years ago. I think they've held up really well in spite of the abuse.

Is there such a thing an "industrial" quality made piano, one made specifically for taking more abuse? If not, what brand(s) is particularly "tough?"

To my knowledge, nothing exists that was made for this kind of treatment.

But, we're trying to plan for the day these pianos are retired, and I've been talking to a respected dealer/manufacturer who is working on customizing a couple of their instruments for this application, the primary modification being making custom lids out of Corian or some other type of countertop material, with reinforcements built in from the factory.

Out of the four clubs, the pianos here in San Diego have lasted the longest, and, FWIW, the owners believe it's because of the care I give them.

...One bit of accidental luck they had in buying these particular pianos is that all of the plain wire strings are single-strung. When they pop a string, they only lose one instead of two. It makes string replacement a relative pain - they're not only looped, but double-looped at the hitch pins..

I think this is perfect. As you are regularly replacing 4 strings every week, in your situation, I would come prepared. I would have a bundle of strings along, of all the gauges that break. They would be cut to approximate length in the shop, with pre-made double loops. Then, in the club, simply slap them on.

Interesting gig, to be sure.

Thanks!

I mounted one of those bench-mount loop making machines from Schaff(haven't found anything better yet, and I'm certainly open to suggestions) on the lid of my repair box, so I can make them on the spot, but I just might try your suggestion. the strings most likely to break are in the 14-1/2 to 15-1/2 gauges, so it's not like I'd have to keep a huge selection pre-looped, and it is a real time-sucker to make them at the job.

You can make loops in just a few seconds with easily carried tools. You need a piece of doweling with a hole through the middle and a screw near the hole. Here is a photo:

You run the wire through a hole in the dowel. You make a loop with the round-nosed pliers. Loop it as many times as you need. Tuck the tail under the screw head next to the hole, and twist the dowel to wrap the tail around the wire.

There used to be a great night club in Kansas City I would go to late at night during PTG conferences thatwas set up like this.I thoroughly enjoyed myself as did the patrons.I wish we had one in my neighborhood!!!!!

There used to be a great night club in Kansas City I would go to late at night during PTG conferences thatwas set up like this.I thoroughly enjoyed myself as did the patrons.I wish we had one in my neighborhood!!!!!

People do have a great time there. I also sing whenever I'm there - they like my rendition of Minne The Moocher. :woot:

We're beginning to think it's getting to be time to retire these pianos. The stage right piano is starting to have some rather unique issues. It's breaking more strings than the stage left piano, and now the action has become comparatively sluggish. IMO, the repetition lever springs have fatigued, causing the action to feel heavier and respond slowly. I've pulled wippens out from various places, and the wippens from rarely used notes(A0, C88, etc.) still feel taut, while other notes(G2, used all the time, for instance), feels loose and the lever rebounds weakly by comparison.

Also, the wedge damper felts have deep ridges worn in the sides of them where they rest on the strings, and are also now failing.

These issues, plus impending hammer replacement, are seemingly more than the owners want to sink into these pianos at this age and wear.

One of the owners sees this as a sign of the impending end of the pianos, and has put the word out he wants to replace them.

I have a pretty special deal lined up for them, but I don't want to divulge specifics until it goes through.

This will be one of those times where the old pianos will be unmitigated, unsalvageable junk. Nothing to even cannibalize.

...One bit of accidental luck they had in buying these particular pianos is that all of the plain wire strings are single-strung. When they pop a string, they only lose one instead of two. It makes string replacement a relative pain - they're not only looped, but double-looped at the hitch pins..

I think this is perfect. As you are regularly replacing 4 strings every week, in your situation, I would come prepared. I would have a bundle of strings along, of all the gauges that break. They would be cut to approximate length in the shop, with pre-made double loops. Then, in the club, simply slap them on.

Interesting gig, to be sure.

Thanks!

I mounted one of those bench-mount loop making machines from Schaff(haven't found anything better yet, and I'm certainly open to suggestions) on the lid of my repair box, so I can make them on the spot, but I just might try your suggestion. the strings most likely to break are in the 14-1/2 to 15-1/2 gauges, so it's not like I'd have to keep a huge selection pre-looped, and it is a real time-sucker to make them at the job.

SIngle or double loops can be simply made with pliers , use gloves if it hurts, or make them at home with ahook as Jurgen propose.

Interesting concept, the industrial piano bar : the pianist are paid by the song or do they have a real pay.

I see toons of food, a lot of alcohol, a lot of people singing and having fun but not much dancing/moving. I thought that Rock and Roll was a dance initially ... In most dancing place I've seen (with some time real bands) no one is drinking and the food is there to restore energy.

I believe the fun is as good ! aside, if the people where drinking they could not dance for long, and they stay on their feet from 9:00 PM to 2:AM !

Edited by Kamin (05/27/1207:18 AM)

_________________________
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialistI wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

While not a piano bar, I have a local church that has a Samick Grand that has been played hard and put away wet...as the saying goes. A previous tech (who didn't know what they were doing), when a bass string would break would just put in whatever random string was laying around. Needless to say the unisons were TERRIBLE in the bass. After getting frustrated with the previous tech, the church called me in. When I first saw the piano, it was one of those cases that was so overwhelming because of all that was wrong with it, that I didn't know where to start. I thought about replacing the worst offending strings in the bass, but because it had been so messed up from the other tech, I could not even figure out which string was an original and which had been replaced. In the end, we just restrung the entire bass section. Thank goodness I was just able to give the model number to Mapes, and they sent me a whole new set!! The hammers were so worn that they were flat. I reshaped the hammers and voiced them down. Those new strings have lasted about a year, and on my last visit, found two newly broken ones. I usually am called to tune the piano about every 3-4 months. Once we even made it to the 5 month mark. Compared to what it started as, the pianists at the church are MUCH happier with how the piano sounds now.

This is SO cool! Can't believe I missed this thread when you first posted it. I'm assuming the lids are always kept closed when the pianos are being used? When you tune them, are they always about the same...or are some weeks worse than others?

SIngle or double loops can be simply made with pliers , use gloves if it hurts, or make them at home with ahook as Jurgen propose.

The dowel tool that I posted about saves your hands, saves excess wire, and can be easily carried in one's tool bag, so there is no need for a trip to the shop. This topic was revived because OperaTenor tried it and liked it. You should try it, too.

This is SO cool! Can't believe I missed this thread when you first posted it. I'm assuming the lids are always kept closed when the pianos are being used? When you tune them, are they always about the same...or are some weeks worse than others?

Yes, the lids are always down. They have bar pickups over and under the strings and pump them through the P/A.

The condition varies widely from week to week, and as far as i can tell, it depends on who's playing that week. they have nine pianists on the roster, and only one is classically-trained. When I first met him, three of his fingertips were bandaged from playing so much.

I've had runs of several weeks with no broken strings, and I've had as many as nine break in a week.

I can't get in any earlier than 10am(that's the earliest any of the managers get in), and I have to be gone by 2pm during the school year to pick up my daughter from school, so when there are a lot of broken strings, it can get a little tense. And let's not even talk about stability. I can always tell which strings I replaced in how many previous weeks by how far they've fallen.

SIngle or double loops can be simply made with pliers , use gloves if it hurts, or make them at home with ahook as Jurgen propose.

The dowel tool that I posted about saves your hands, saves excess wire, and can be easily carried in one's tool bag, so there is no need for a trip to the shop. This topic was revived because OperaTenor tried it and liked it. You should try it, too.

...One bit of accidental luck they had in buying these particular pianos is that all of the plain wire strings are single-strung. When they pop a string, they only lose one instead of two. It makes string replacement a relative pain - they're not only looped, but double-looped at the hitch pins..

I think this is perfect. As you are regularly replacing 4 strings every week, in your situation, I would come prepared. I would have a bundle of strings along, of all the gauges that break. They would be cut to approximate length in the shop, with pre-made double loops. Then, in the club, simply slap them on.

Interesting gig, to be sure.

Thanks!

I mounted one of those bench-mount loop making machines from Schaff(haven't found anything better yet, and I'm certainly open to suggestions) on the lid of my repair box, so I can make them on the spot, but I just might try your suggestion. the strings most likely to break are in the 14-1/2 to 15-1/2 gauges, so it's not like I'd have to keep a huge selection pre-looped, and it is a real time-sucker to make them at the job.

SIngle or double loops can be simply made with pliers , use gloves if it hurts, or make them at home with ahook as Jurgen propose.

Interesting concept, the industrial piano bar : the pianist are paid by the song or do they have a real pay.

I see toons of food, a lot of alcohol, a lot of people singing and having fun but not much dancing/moving. I thought that Rock and Roll was a dance initially ... In most dancing place I've seen (with some time real bands) no one is drinking and the food is there to restore energy.

I believe the fun is as good ! aside, if the people where drinking they could not dance for long, and they stay on their feet from 9:00 PM to 2:AM !

Yes, the only dancing that occurs is up on the stage, and on the lids of the pianos. Everyone in the audience is there to eat, drink, and watch the spectacle.

I. Did the design is well known . I like the hook, the best, and pliers aallow to match the original one better. But indeed it is a good simple gig, does not avoid the necessity to learn to make things in different ways. To me the less tools the best i feel.

It is easy with a hook and the winding is tight, the round pliers allow for different diameters, indeed for thick wire it is hard but for the ones that break it is ok.

That said, and due how the pianist play in that club, strings should not break so often. To me they dont brutalize the pianos it is only show, they are pro piaists ( some should refrain singing when they are drunk !! )

_________________________
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialistI wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Now it is certainly late fot the wire,but i suggest that if the piano provide more dynamics, the pianist will play less hard. The unison also can help.

Those pianos are miked. A llttle maintenance. Would protec strings.

I haqd 28 pianos for 4 years in a 2500 students music school.with One sttriing break only .

I think there are some worthwhile distinctions between these pianos and your music school pianos. First, these pianos are a little over ten years old, and they've been play almost every day of those ten years, 5-6 hours a day. As such, my opinion is that the strings are in the advanced stages of metal fatigue. Second, the players are gorillas, unlike your music school students. Even the one classically-trained pianist has to bandage his fingers from pounding. Keep in mind, these players also DRINK on the job, and sometimes they get pretty hammered, which also doesn't add any finesse to their technique.

What kind of maintenance do you suggest to protect the strings? Both pianos were fully regulated a little over a year ago, and there was never a drop in string breakage. The closest thing to a pattern of string breakage seems to correspond *slightly* with who's playing that week. I.e., if a certain player goes on vacation, I may experience less breakage. The prevalent attitude in the club is that breaking strings just goes with the territory.

That said, and due how the pianist play in that club, strings should not break so often. To me they dont brutalize the pianos it is only show, they are pro piaists ( some should refrain singing when they are drunk !! )

Ah, but they do brutalize the pianos -they make a point of it, for show. It drives the crowd wild when the four 200lb pianists climb up on the pianos, jump up and down on the lids, and beat the edge of the lids with drumsticks. they slam the fallboards up to induce the crowd to clap along with a song. Several times each night, some employees will climb on and dance on the lids, as in the photo in the original post.

The downstage edge of both lids is covered with black duct tape to hide the chewed-up edge from beating on them with drumsticks over the years.