I noticed on the Russian forum the counterpart thread has some pretty interestng discussions, but this thread is a bit dead. Since the hyperdrive is being reworked a bit towards an Alcubierre(/White) style drive perhaps we can get a new discussion going on the FTL physics.

In regards to making a gameplay mechanic from this while sticking to "realism" of the current theory I have some ideas on what could be done.

The thin rings used in the original Alcubierre drive would require a large input of energy to function

Perhaps some sort of mechanism could be used to allow for thin rings(or other shapes). Possibly using something like the original hyperdrive concept as an external ZPM/vacuum energy/negative pressure generator that would work in conjunction with the thin rings to generate a possibly larger more stable field.

Some layout similar to this

For every thin ring you would have an internal generator that would work with the thin ring to generate a sort of "virtual" thick ring.

Another aspect of space bending rings is they all generate a specific size field.

What one needs to realize is each ring is affecting space and the flat region is within the ring and just outside of it.

The reason the two rings on the NASA concept ship are so close is so the field acts as a single unit and is stable.

If you have parts of the ship sticking too far out or the rings too widely placed the field will not be symmetric and the ship will be destroyed.

To allow for longer ships one would need to use more rings around the ship at certain points or perhaps use some sort of new mechanic that when placed along the ship would stabilize the field. C = contraction region and E = expansion

This are actually very nice information. Wasn't to happy with the hyperdrive concept. An Alcubierre drive could be intresting for it. Possible aswell, that such a engine should have some kind of fuel dark matter/antimatter. Beeing able to jump infinitely, but having only finite fuel sounds a bit strange.

Some smaller (about 100 meter) long warpships with lower max range and speed would be nice aswell. So lets see what they came up with from the russian forum.

The foldable ring is epic. Would work nice with ships, who have a full body shield (massive hull). The ship has already shown, but even when the ring is wrong, it could be a nice example how a ship with a massive hull can look. A foldable ring could be withdrawn in the hull then. (Already known pic from another thread, put into a spoiler.)

Hope we can build a complete armor around the ship, even when it makes the ship very heavy and will need way more fuel/power and would have a way slower acceleration by same engine output. But it would make the ship way more robust.

To the Alcubierre rings.

I think both rings could have drawbacks and benefits.

foldable ring: + can be folded into the hull, so its completly protected from the ship hull + wouldn't block the rest of the ship when folded - lower efficiency and output as a solid ring - not as robust as the solid ring when unfolded - more delicate

So when i am actually by ideas, i think i could write some additional ones i got lately (Put them into another spoiler, because its a bit longer list, who shouldn't make the post to long):

To the reactors:

I personally would split them in 2 types of power sources.

Low Power Generators: (Creating the power of life support, internal systems, etc.)

Solar panel (only work in star systems, could be retracted and extended. Possible are small and large solar cells. Possible aswell large unfoldable solar wings, who can even charge the batteries of the ship) Fuel cells (need more fuel, but use very common materials) Radioisotope thermoelectric generators (needs less fuel, but not so common materials) Small Zero Point Generator (small generator, who creates a low constant output of energy. Needs very advanced technology)

High Power Reactors: (Provides power for more energy entensive systems like Ion Engines, Plasma Ion Engines, Warp Engines, etc.) fission reactors (Uran and Thorium reactors, very heavy, only provides a low power output. Thorium reactor is the more modern one who is safer. Very cheap to build, needs only very low tech.) fusion reactors (stand space reactor, needs a average technology and provides a good power output.) antimatter reactors (high power reactor, who creates the largest power output. But they are very risky. They need a continues and elaborate maintance, otherwise it can end in the complete destruction of the ship.) high power zero point generator (needs very high advanced technology, provides a power output similar to a fusion reactor, but over infinite times without fuel needs)

Space Engines: rocket propellant (low power, but high fuel consumation) Ion engines/Vasimir/Plasma engines (needs inert gas, or plasma from a fusion reactor). antimatter engine (Donno if something like this is planed. Yes, Antimatter is planned, but donno if only for power generation or aswell engines. So an engine, who use the direct reaction from a Antimatter reactor for such an engine. Could possible go with 100g or something, if the ship as some dampers.) And the quantum vakuum thrusters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_vacuum_plasma_thruster This engine should need a lot of power, no fuel but should be slow. So about 1g with a good zero point generator)

For dampers, i would suggest: pressurized suit (10g) gel tanks (20-30g, but no control over the ship, so it has to fly with autopilot) higgs generator (needs very much energy, but would aswell support the 100g antimatter engines)

FTL engines:

Alcubierre (will need a very high power at the beginning. Only the antimatter reactors are able to provide immediately. antimatter reactors would aswell give the hightest speed. Other reactors would need some high power condensators, who have to be charged before they can power up a alcubierre drive.)

Wormhole (The idea i had in mind would be to use some massive gravity mass to get this engine running. Possible a sun for interstellar travel, or a black hole (=D) for intergalatic travel. This has to be tweaked, because it could be a problem, when a ship strands in deep space. Possible would be, that very high advanced ships could aswell travel between galaxies with alcubierre drives and that the player can call for help, if he strands. So it would be more a way for faster traveling)

For the ships, yes the small ships are looking nice. Only rocket or jet/scramjet engines, no reactors (because they are to small) Then i would include some medium sized ship. They can carry reactors, but are to small to create a own space warp. They could possible use some stationary accelerator, or some space warp ring in space, who is orbiting a star. The ships could hold the space warp then on their own, but would only fly very slowly. So they would be ideal for automated transports between close systems. Other medium sized ships could be used as landing ships for very large motherships to launch larger cargo to the motherships. The larger motherships should be able to transport such ships and it should be good to have one near a cluster of colonies, to pick up some frighters, who had some engine failures between the stars. The motherships should be of course the only ones to create a own space warp and the only ones to fly with very high speeds.

Feedback: (I completly forgot it and had to edit it in. ) The idea would be to give some additional pathes of technology, who are all balanced to each other. So all systems should have advances and disadvances and should have some stages of development. As examples for the reactors, the antimatter reactor would be extremly powerful, but very risky, would need few fuel, but the fuel would be very difficult to create. The nuclear reactors are solid reactors with a good power output and reliable, but would need a lot of fuel, who is easy to make The zero point generator should be a bit less powerful, but should give infinite power, but would be expansive and would need a very good technology.

foldable ring: + can be folded into the hull, so its completly protected from the ship hull + wouldn't block the rest of the ship when folded - lower efficiency and output as a solid ring - not as robust as the solid ring when unfolded - more delicate

SHW and I were discussing a way to do all kinds of rings. Since warp drive physics in the real world are still a bit of guess work this leaves a lot of room to work with in terms of fiction.

Perhaps early in the game players would gain access to the large thick rings. The benefits of this is it would require very low levels of energy, in system and short interstellar journeys to near by systems, and possibly small scale shielding around the craft. Draw backs on these would be high initial input of energy, hyperdrive unit would be single enclosed piece, bulky and heavy, and lower hyperfactor velocities.

This would make players want to invest in exploration technology pathways rather than other things like weapons.

The second form of the hyperdrive could be an optimized form of the thick rings like these

The plus side would be longer duration FTL flights, low initial input of energy, maybe a small internal reactor that generates the initial effect and these rings are what broadcast it. Think in a sense it would be generating a thick ring but with some unknown internal drive mechanism that generates the field effect. Think sort of like a radio tower, something inside generates the effect and the external part amplifies and broadcasts it.

From there you could advance to a more advanced internal reactor, think of a sort of ZPM generator linked with thin rings. This is the point where you could start using energy efficient and long duration flight thin hyperdrive rings. These could be the ones that allow users to start exploring beyond their local star systems.

The layout would be similar to my earlier post. The main field generator would still be inside the rings and the rings would still be required but the energy requirements would go down due to internal ZPM/generator optimizations. Sticks to a bit of realism but also would open the way towards more scifi looking ships.

After that you could go onto things like these which would do basically the same things as the thin rings.

Or at the same point or shortly after allow the player access to unfolding hyperdrive rings. This would allow players far more freedom in ship design, perhaps right before players unlock unfolding and dynamic hyperdrive structures they could unlock things like this

The idea behind partial rings would still follow an internal reactor, the rings physical structure would be thin but the "virtual" structure of the ring would be large and thick.

By this point players could be exploring most of the galaxy they are in and maybe even capable of leaving the galaxy.

After this you could reintroduce the original hyperdrive concept for advanced stage players. Players who maxed out or reach the end of their FTL tech tree or whatever system is implemented would no longer be restrained by any sort of ring or external hyperdrive, those users could make very long distance jumps, travel to other galaxies, and basically be free to explore. Maybe the drive at this point would be a low energy high impulse sort of drive that requires a small amount of input energy to draw directly out of the vacuum. Could be close to a cheat drive in some sense, but you would have to work hard to get to that stage. The idea would still be the same however, there would still be a field and a bubble around the ship.

Quoteschwarzwolf ()

Only the antimatter reactors are able to provide immediately. antimatter reactors would aswell give the hightest speed. Other reactors would need some high power condensators, who have to be charged before they can power up a alcubierre drive

I talked to SHW and SpaceEngineer about this. SHW and I tried to figure out ways for the player to get antimatter and we came up empty handed. The biggest issue is where do we get it and how do we get more.

Antimatter would require refineries and collectors and if a player is on the other side of the galaxy far away from such things then they will be stuck and have little chance of getting anywhere close to enough antimatter to make a return journey.

For now the idea is the hyperdrive technology would have followed its real life counterpart on energy optimizations, so in the game of SE it shouldn't require such high amounts of energy.

If the game does this then Fusion energy would be enough to power all the systems including FTL. Hydrogen, Helium 3, and deuterium are pretty much everywhere and wouldn't require anything special to get.

TL;DR: Antimatter isn't worth it due to how hard it is to get.

Quoteschwarzwolf ()

Wormhole (The idea i had in mind would be to use some massive gravity mass to get this engine running. Possible a sun for interstellar travel, or a black hole (=D) for intergalatic travel. This has to be tweaked, because it could be a problem, when a ship strands in deep space. Possible would be, that very high advanced ships could aswell travel between galaxies with alcubierre drives and that the player can call for help, if he strands. So it would be more a way for faster traveling)

Wormholes were brought up before but since SE is an exploration game and the idea is for players to travel from point A to point B at high speeds wormholes would remove a core part of the game.

I think an emergency storage of fuel is a better solution, basically in all ships or most ships there would be emergency fuel supplies used only for jumps when low or out of fuel. When you are in interstellar space perhaps it would access that fuel, charge up the jump, and shoot into the closest system. Even being in the system would be enough to begin collecting hydrogen and if you can get to a gas giant you would have all the fuel you need. There are some issues that could be worked out, but this is a long way off in development for SE.

Not to mention wormholes would be pretty complex if you wanted to pull them off realistically

Quote

The view through a traversable wormhole is even worse. The negative energy density threading a wormhole throat generates repulsive gravity, which will then deflect light rays going through and around it. The entrance to the (spherically symmetric) wormhole would look like a sphere that contained the mirror image of a whole other universe or remote region within our universe, incredibly shrunken and distorted (see Figure 2) [6]. This is a topological inversion of images manifested in spherically symmetric wormhole geometry. If one were to travel through the wormhole and look back at it from the other side, then they would see a sphere (the entry way back home) that seemed to contain their whole original universe or their home region of space near Earth (within your universe). This would look just like a glass Christmas tree ornament, which is just a spherical mirror that reflects, in principle, the entire universe around it. Beams of light traveling inside the traversable wormhole throat would appear to be grossly distorted (see Figure 3).

The fact that there is some experimental evidence to support the idea kind of takes it out of the realm of pseudoscience. They have a long way to go before being proven but there is some compelling evidence.

Whether or not they'll be efficient when scaled up, provide enough thrust for large spacecraft, or even be practical remains to be seen and that's if they even work.