Would it be safe to regard the prohibition against riding in a chariot (and thus an aeroplane which is even more opulent) as a 'minor rule' which, while appropriate for the Buddha's time, can now be dispensed with (and is regularly dispensed with by even very strict monks, for the purposes of preaching the Dhamma)?

Having said that, a private jet seems to be unnecessary when there are plenty of public ones available. It doesn't create a good impression, seeing that picture. Maybe the rule needs some refashioning for the 21st Century, along the lines of, 'A Bhikkhu should choose, when possible, a less expensive mode of transportation, if such an option exists; and such travel in a vehicle should have a purpose that is in accord with the Dhamma' (so not only preaching, but visiting a sick parent who is overseas would be in line with Dhamma, one would think).

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity." (SN 22.97)

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Yes, Jack, a picture can speak a thousand words.Hence, it is important to treat any photograph removed from important contexts with due caution.kind regards,

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Ben wrote:Yes, Jack, a picture can speak a thousand words.Hence, it is important to treat any photograph removed from important contexts with due caution.kind regards,

Ben

Hi Ben

What contexts can you imagine that could vindicate monks who are flying in a private jet sporting luxury sunglasses, with headphones on? I cannot imagine one. It's one of those cut and dry situations in my mind. But then my mind is far from perfect.

I mean no disrespect, but I don't think there's any need to be cautious in saying that the Buddha would have categorically condemned such luxury for his Bhikkhus. It's a sad state of affairs, but something that is becoming more and more common, and I think it's very wholesome that this picture has sparked a serious debate in Thailand about what is acceptable conduct from monks. The laity have since the Buddha's time acted as a safety valve in holding monks actions to account, indeed many of the vinaya laws were formulated because the laity complained to the Buddha about certain Bhikkhu's behaviour. I believe that it is for the good of the sasana as a whole that such debates occur and that where monks have acted in ways that run against the Buddha's teachings, that they should be condemned for such actions.

That's just how I feel about it anyway.

with mettaJack

P.S.

Here's the video that the picture comes from, perhaps it can provide more context.

Last edited by BlackBird on Mon Jul 01, 2013 5:26 am, edited 2 times in total.

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

To me these monks and the story look pretty suss, but I am not sure about the emphasis on all the corruption here lately. I hope it goes somewhere constructive, because otherwise it's just negativity that fosters corrosive doubt and undermines dedication to practice.

Next time, someone needs to make a video, one in slo-mo, where the monks walk slowly and dramatically toward the camera, while behind them, there are fires and general havoc. The monks in the pciture above already have the appropriate look on the face, now they only need to get their bodies in sync with the whole drama of the scene.

I would guess that these a couple of rich guys who are doing a temporary ordination for merit, probably for a parent or some such thing.

When I was in Bangkok in the mid 70's there was a police official who was doing a temporary ordination for merit for his mother. While he was at the vihara he had a collection of porn so that he could have a stiffy every day, as everyone knows if you do not have a stiffy everyday one looses the ability to have a stiffy.

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

>> Do you see a man wise[enlightened/ariya]in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<-- Proverbs 26:12

tiltbillings wrote:as everyone knows if you do not have a stiffy everyday one looses the ability to have a stiffy.

Really? I never heard of that before.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

And how about contrived shots of monks meditating in the wilderness or at places of outstanding beauty or attending conferences or touring the pilgrimage sites (or tourist sites). What do we all feel is acceptable?

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta