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Love, Sports, and Dating – A peek into the minds of the Ladies

On any given day, we send each other between 50 and 200 emails. (70% sports, 15% website chatter, 7% pillow fighting and baby oil discussion, 4% on how our lives are going, 4% on how much we hate other blogs that shall remain nameless.)

So in the spirit of the CHEEZE DOODLE BACON PANTS post, here is the thread that took place this week in response to Chris Mottram’s post on Mr. Irrelevant about dating women who like the NFL. The conversation runs from dating guys who didn’t like sports, bar fights, holding your tongue as not to show up your sweetie in front of his crew, and eventually to my new favorite word, “douchesnozzle”.

Leading up to this point, we had been talking about Metschick’s new boyfriend…

What if we did something similar. What is like from our side to date someone who is not as big of a fan as you are? Or did not like that you were as big of fan as he was? Or that you were a big fan of a team you hated? How did you get pass it?

Do you like or dislike a guy more based on the teams he likes? I am sure we all have stories here.

TheStarterWife – I also bring this up because I worry I am scaring my new Squee with all my Steelers talk, and he is a huge sports fan.

Andrea – No, I have dated both a guy who hated that I was as into sports as he was and a guy who hated that I was more into sports than he was. They were both tools.

Metschick – My husband LOVED that I “got into baseball because of him”. What didn’t he like? That eventually, my knowledge of the game (stats, and the like) surpassed his.

Also, he owned tons of MLB caps. I twice bought him Mets caps, and both times he returned them. Grrr. (Seriously, the man owned an Astros cap, a Padres cap, a cubs cap, etc., but couldn’t wear my Mets cap?)

Boyfriend just rolls his eyes now when I ask that he switch over to the game.

My Squee keeps saying the Steelers thing is adorable, but I worry. Fortunately he’s an NFC fan, so I am ok for most of the season.

Andrea– Yeah and then over on You’ve Been Blinded’s post, he talks about basketball and baseball being okay, but again the football is just a “no.” Why is that?

Metschick – Because guys are asses, and we shouldn’t rack our brains trying to comprehend them.

TheStarterWife – Because they are not well thought out arguments.

Andrea – I just don’t get why football is different from basketball and baseball, is all. What would make a girl more annoying to watch football with or less annoying to watch baseball and basketball with? It’s stupid. And neither writer actually explains himself. I’m getting all riled up just typing about it. I don’t mind the opinion itself so much as the lack of reasons behind it.

TheStarterWife – They all had me all riled up, but I had to give myself a few days to come down from reading them before asking if we should so something in response.

GordonShumway – True story, my current hookup stayed over last night and this morning I turned Sportscenter on and watched the Brewers/Mets highlights (sorry Metsy) and said that I thought we’d see the Brewers and the Padres in the NL playoffs. He looked at me, milk dribbling down his chin, and said “Ask me if I care.” He was dismissed promptly as his spoon hit the bottom of the bowl.

Boooo.

Andrea – Ugh. Dick. The one serious boyfriend I had who thought it was cool that I liked sports had a standing arrangement with me: I’d be interested in distance running events (he was a steeplechaser and XC runner) and he’d cheer for the Hawkeyes in football and basketball. It’s all about having at least a passing interest in your partner’s passions, right?

The funniest part is that I’ll still get calls or emails from him if the Hawkeyes win or lose a big game. After the NCAA 1st round Thing That Shall Not Be Named, he sent me flowers.

GordonShumway – See that? Is cute. And acceptable.

The irritating thing is that I sat at dinner last night listening to him drone on about arguing a tax case in federal court yesterday, my eyes glazing as I considered propping my head up with a lettuce wedge but one comment about baseball and he acts bored. Boys? Douches. All of them.

Metschick – “Boys? Douches. All of them.”

Here, here!

What irritates me is that my husband was all for me learning more about the game, and picking up on the nuances, until I knew more than he did. We were arguing one day about the Jets/Steelers playoff game (in 05), and I said that the Jets had no chance because of x,y,z, and he was all “you don’t know everything!”

Ooooh, that certainly done showed me.

Andrea– One thing I had to learn as a sports fan is to not show a guy up in front of his friends. I wouldn’t do it on purpose, but I realized that that’s kind of shitty and I would really hate it if a guy did that to me, so I had to start watching myself.

I’ll show him up in the privacy of our own home, however.

Metschick – That I totally agree with.

Besides, when he was with his friends, their sports discussions usually just devolved into who can yell the loudest.

TheStarterWife – TSB got too into the Steelers and football. He get more upset than I would at plays, etc, and would be UNBEARABLE. Once, I had to turn off the TV he was being such a baby.

I HAD TO TURN OF THE TV AND SEND HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE.

And this was a team he had just adopted!

@GordonShumway – I’ve dated guys who didn’t like sports. It worked. It gave us each the break we needed. (True, the guy is now a professor at Berkeley who helped write the Kyoto treaty, I would forgive him for not liking sports since he was saving the world.

Metschick – That is hilarious.

GordonShumway – My longest relationship was with a guy who didn’t care at all about sports but didn’t mind that I did. In 2004, he gave me my Christmas gift early– tickets to games 3 and 4 of the World Series in St. Louis. For that, I’ll always love him, even though he left me for a nasty goblin with enough excess neck skin to cover the infield at Fenway.

Metschick – But you got to see the Red Sox win the World Series.Fair trade off?

Andrea – For real, I’m so jealous you were there. Not for those 2 particular games, mind you. I was busy fashioning a noose out of my shoelaces. But to see your team in person win the WS. Wow.

GordomShumway – Yeah, that cushioned the blow a bit… and I have to remind myself of that when I see the two of them at the gym. She wears slouch socks, btw.

TheStarterWife – Ah yes… The assumption that all men love sports, which we know, it’s not true!

Andrea – This is totally wrong and sexist of me, but when I meet a guy who isn’t into at least one major sport I’m kind of like, “Really? What’s wrong with you?”

It’s terrible.

GordonShumway– The funny part about World Series guy is that we met playing in the same football league (he was the center/safety, I was a wideout/middle linebacker) He ran track in college (at Wake, albeit, um, several years before I attended…) and loved playing sports…but watching ’em? No way. He used to laugh that I had Sportscenter on when he left for work in the morning and had it on when he got home in the evenings and couldn’t figure out what in the world could’ve happened in the gap between the two.

TheStarterWife – Now that is funny.

Andrea – No, but I really don’t hold it against any guy if he does not like sports. That just means he has be better in other areas, and has to put up with me when I am out of my mind over my teams.

TheStarterWife – That being said, I don’t think I’ve ever dated a guy who hated sports. I’ve just dated guys who were not watching them. (The professor had just kinda grown out of them. He also didn’t own a TV, but had enough records to open his own music shop.)

SA – Hmm…maybe I’m the exception that proves the rules. Most of the guys I’ve dated were only casual fans and the one I dated that was as big of a fan as me was a South Carolina/Braves/Panthers fan. So we never really got into huge arguments over it, although when a loss happened we would mock and make jokes, etc. All good natured.

I think a good post would be in response to this. Call them out on their post. You don’t like girls that like football. That’s fine. How about you explain why you don’t douchebag. And use something valid, not “Uhh…they’re annoying.”

Obviously without the douchebag.

Texas Gal – I think this is a great idea- I’m happy to contribute, but I don’t really have that many interesting stories- I don’t date guys who don’t like sports. Really, I don’t even date guys who don’t know more about sports than me, and I’ve never had a douchebag guy I was dating be a jerk about me liking sports. Y’all are saints for dealing with that.

Now one of my close friends did once have a guy call her when she was out on the golf course to tell her (and I quote): “Your obsession with sports is getting old. I’m serious.” She broke up with him immediately- and we use that as our motto in life now. She should have known something was up when he claimed to be a big sports fan and then got mad when she wanted to watch Red Sox games. “All of them? You watch all of them?!?” Uh, yeah.

I mostly get the reaction from new guys I meet like I’m a fascinating exhibit at the museum- “WHOA, does she actually know that much about sports?!?!?”, all pressed up against the glass and gawking. My guy friends parade me around to other guys we meet like a toy- “Watch what she can do! She knows about sports, can you believe it?” It’s not that rare, guys- about 50% of my friends love sports. I don’t get why they act all shocked.

I randomly happened to sit next to a former collegiate swimmer at the Cubs-Phils game Tuesday night, and he about fell over when I knew several members of his college team, and that his roommate won gold in Athens, and the swimming coach at Michigan, and the years Texas won their NCs. I got free beer from him all night, and shots at the bar after. That was nice.

/end of rambling email

Andrea – I’ve been marched out like an exhibit this summer at the law firm. All the guys I work with are like, “What’s Buddy Carlyle’s ERA?” and shit like that. I’ve started making “dance, monkey, dance” jokes, which shuts them up.

Texas Gal – You should start charging an admission fee.

Andrea – Oh, also: I’m totally in agreement about “all the games” thing. I know alleged “fans” who have no interest in watching regular season games. I mean, I don’t stay home for 162 nights but I like watching as many games as I can, you know?

Metschick – That boggles my mind. how about people who claim to be sports fans, and then don’t even watch an iota of the playoffs, because their team isn’t in it? I love the Mets, but I love baseball even more.

Holly – Dude, I can SO relate to this:

My guy friends parade me around to other guys we meet like a toy- “Watch what she can do! She knows about sports, can you believe it?”

Andrea – I will admit, we are more the exception than the rule. But I resent being made to feel like I should have my cage next to the bearded lady and conjoined twins.

Holly – I actually don’t mind that part so much myself. It gives them a (mostly harmless) laugh, and they know good and well I can school them in Madden.

Don’t even get me started on the inevitable comments from guys when they see you scoring a game. It’s like you speak another language they thought only guys knew.

Metschick – Heh, I used to be the Elias Sports Bureau: “What’s so and so batting right now? How about John Doe Pitcher – how many home runs has he given up?” At least 3 times a week, I’d have to answer questions like that…

Texas Gal – Yeah- I mean, I’m not staying home and foregoing a night out for a baseball game- but if Roger Clemens is back pitching his first game for the Yankees, or the Cubs are playing the Cards, or Josh Beckett is pitching, I need to have a TV in sight.

Andrea – Exactly. I just politely request that wherever we go has a TV. No big deal.

TheStarterWife – I do not like the “monkey” dance thing either. And don’t try to trip me up on knowing the plus/minus of Dwayne Wade just because I have breasts and you feel pissy. You wouldn’t do that to another guy you just met, and I don’t need to pass a test. I like the game and that should be enough for you.

Andrea – Ooooh, the guys who act like it’s a test are THE WORST. I don’t mind the “ooh, look what this girl can do” nearly as much as I mind the “oh yeah? Well, answer these questions to prove you have a penis” attitude.

TheStarterWife – Well the thing for me is, I never try to say I know more or less than anyone when it comes to sports/music/movies/politics/sea turtles.

There is too much going on in the world to be 100%, top-o-the-food-chain, expert in anything. There is no test in sports. I like it. You like it. We get to cheer, drink beer, and argue over why your team sucks and why my team rules. Why make it more complicated than that?

Holly – I’ll have some stories later tonight when I get home…I date a lot of geeks. Foobaw is generally a sore spot with them.

Clare – Pittsburgh guys were the worst about testing your sports knowledge.I hate to bring up the Justin Strelczyk storyagain, but when I was talking to him was real curt about the Steelers:

Me:So what do you do?

Him:I was a professional football player.

Me:Oh yeah?Who did you play for?

Him, real nasty:The hometown team.You know it?

Me:Uh, yeah, of course.I might be from Philadelphia but

I know who the Steelers are.

Andrea – Earlier this year I got in to a faux argument about the best hitter in baseball (I thought we were having fun) and the guy arguing for Ortiz finally just shoved me and stomped off. It was pure class.

Texas Gal – I confess I did get in one sports-related bar argument once. When I was in Tampa for spring training, we were at a bar watching basketball, and some random douche had the NERVE to regurgitate (almost word for word) a Bill Simmons column about how shitty of a coach Rick Barnes is, and I ripped him a new one for (a) not knowing what he was talking about, and (b) trying to pass off shitty Bill Simmons arguments as his own. I told him to get back with me when he watched enough sports to form an opinion of his own, but until then, to quit talking to me. And then I made a shoo-ing noise and motion with my hands.

TheStarterWife – We need a Ladies night out.Scare the locals.

Andrea – No shit. I’m serious: Vegas PP!!!

Texas Gal – I can only imagine that night would end in tragedy of the very best kind. Bar fights, jail, dirty alleyway hookups… you know, the norm.

Clare -…you know, *Tuesday*.

SA – The guy physically pushed you?! WTF?

I was thinking the same thing Metsy. Like last year when Duke loss in the first round, that doesn’t mean I stop watching the tournament. And it sucked like hell to watch Florida-tOSU but I did it. Posers.

Andrea – Yeah, he gave me a right old shove. It took all my strength to keep the Yankee fan who was on my side about Pujols from beating the shit out of him.

TheStarterWife – I was just talking to my Squee and I remembered this story–

Summer between senior year of HS and college, I dated a guy who wanted to leave a Pirates game early. That was the basis of our break up

Holly – The beginning of the end of a year and a half long relationship I had with a Boston-born guy came when I spent the 2004 AFC Championship Game in Cambridge with his family of Massholes.

Metschick – yeah, I can’t believe some douche shoved you over a stupid argument!! What a douchenozzle.

89 thoughts on “Love, Sports, and Dating – A peek into the minds of the Ladies”

I read the Baseball Prospectus cover-to-cover each year, and every damn year some guy on the bus/train will ask, “Oh, do you like baseball?” No, asswad. I hate it so much, I’ve decided to read a 500-plus page book that’s basically a fucking reference manual. Jesus, go screw.

I could date a guy who’s a fan of the teams I hate the most (Rangers, Flyers) provided he wasn’t a dick about it, and had the appropriate perspective on sports (i.e. “it’s just a game” etc.).

But I don’t like guys that don’t like sports.

I think men don’t always appreciate women who like sports because you’re crossing into their “territory”. And if you know more than the guy, he feels emasculated. Machismo is very important to most men, especially those who like sports.

You Ladies… make me very happy. For the record, Tex’s story about the Cubs-Phils game made me VERY jealous- the whole thing.

Anyway, I think guys who can made a rash judgment of a woman’s character based on whether or not she likes football is absolutely ridiculous. I totally agree that it isn’t the opinion so much as the lack of anything to back it up. No two ways about it- he’s just plain ignorant. I don’t mind a guy who isn’t as into sports as I am, as long as he doesn’t mind my long-winded talking/yelling/jubilation at different sports-related things. Better if he’s able to actually have a discussion with me about it. I’ll admit that a guy who is as into the Phils and the Eagles as I am would be my ideal, but I don’t mind if a guy is into other teams. My last boyfriend was a Packers fan. I don’t mind ’em- Favre is a good-lookin lad. He only pissed me off after we broke up and he pretended to be as into the Phillies as I am, just so he could gain points in my eyes?? I don’t know, but I thought it was dumb. Which brings me to my next point, kind of related to TexasGal’s Bill Simmons thing. Guys who only know about sports what they learn from A) repetitive ESPN shows and/or B) fantasy stats, are pathetic. I don’t mind watching those ESPN shows once or twice to see some good highlights- but those guys all just talk trash. Who cares what some sportscaster thinks? I could recite line-for-line what they think too, but it wouldn’t be my own opinion from watching the damn thing and therefore would be useless. And fantasy sports- look, I think they’re good fun and all, but when all you know about any team is the stats of some player because he’s on your fantasy team for the day and you need him to score 3 TDs so you get more points, and it’s ALL you talk about… look, that guy’s gotta go.

All I’m saying is- if a guy’s into sports, awesome, as long as he isn’t faking it to look more manly. That just makes him a huge tool. And I’m not all about showing up a guy in front of his friends- but if we’re alone, he better as hell be Ok with me wanting to watch the game and have a beer with him. The end.

I just want to know why guys assume that sports is some mythical subject that girls could not possibly understand. Um, you’re a dumb guy and you understand what offsides is! I think I can pick it up in like five seconds.

Anyway, if you guys came to Michigan, you’d be pretty much adored. The guys are pretty appreciative of girls that can kick back, drink beer that’s not light, and trash talk with the rest of the guys. Now if you talk smack about Detroit-based teams, that’s a different story….

I’ve dated fellas from my school – and they were fine fans – but I always got the “gee, I thought I knew a lot about…” or the “wow! I’m impressed that a girl would know that.” which always ticked me off –

In grad school I dated a guy from ACC country who tried to explain to me that I didn’t really understand real competition and rivalry. Okay, fine. His was a basketball school (with a so-so football team) and I was really excited to have a new team to follow – but he was so darn possessive that I ended up hating the team (still do) – the first time I visited the campus with him we were walking around and when we came upon the football stadium I said “aw, how cute!” (it was) – he got so angry with me “it is not cute. It seats 45,000 people!” – okay sweetie, double that and add 10,000 and I’ll pick a different adjective.

All right, let me toss in my two cents.
I’ve never understood why guys would get angry about girls knowing more about sports then they do. That doesnt make as much sense to me. Maybe that’s because most average sports fans know more than I do, ha. But if I’m with a knowledgeable sports fan, male or female, that’s willing to share info to enhance my viewing experience, how could I be mad about it?! So I’m with you on that one.

I would say there are three reasons why football is a particular sticking point for guys:
(1) The emotional, over-the-top female fan. What’s one of our top complaints about the ladies? They’re too emotional. So when a girl is going crazy over our team leading 7-0 in the first quarter and I’m saying “I’m not getting excited yet, it’s too early to tell”…clearly we’re going to clash. Unless my team is in the playoffs, I’m not getting super-excited that we just won game 65 of the season or what not.
(2) The other extreme is the “Oh, guys like football? I had NO idea! What a coincidence!” female fan. It’s like me pretending to be fascinated by Desperate Housewives. I’ve whined about this before on my blog.
(3) Unlike baseball and basketball, most girls haven’t ever played football. So I think some guys have a natural bias that “This is OUR sport” because they played it growing up. There’s sometimes similar bias from girls for, say, volleyball. But I never played football growing up, so that’s not my beef.

First of all – echoing the love for you guys. I’ve been dealing with this for years.

Two stories: I used to be a sports reporter. It’s where I met my husband. He worked with me. We even covered the same beat during different years (college basketball). But he still quizzes me about stats (we’ve been together 7 years.) What’s up with that? Well, I’ll tell you something one of my professors at Syracuse told me – statistics quizzing is the one thing men use to mark their territory around sports. They think it’s the only indicator of knowledge. I couldn’t give a crap what Kirby Puckett’s lifetime batting average was.

Second story: My husband has decreed that I am not credible EVER when I talk about a player I find attractive. I cannot talk about how nasty Josh Beckett’s curve was or how Gilbert Arenas has been preparing like a madman in the off-season and how that will affect his play this year. Even if whatever I say is true, it is all tainted by the attraction. You know what I say to that theory – bite me.

GordonShumway, your story is why I conveniently and quickly shoved “most” into the comment about girls playing football, ha. I did actually read the entire post; my next blink is scheduled for 12:30 PM EST, but I did read the entire post.

That’s true PSUgirl. I hate female fans in pink jerseys and heels coming to games. And you just know the girl couldn’t pick an average player on the team out of a criminal lineup. Now she doesn’t have to know things as “you can hand pass in your own zone”, but it wouldn’t kill her to know why one team sometimes has 5 skaters, and the other has 4. Maybe I’m too harsh on these women, but, I hate them.

Excellent post, ladies…My own mother (who stopped watching football after the Oilers moved) took it upon herself to which her birthday celebration to a place with televisions (a bar, no less), instead of a more upscale planned brunch outing, simply because she knew that my sisters and I would definitely want to watch football. Simply put, football is that important.

I’m with MCB, actually…sad to say, most of my female friends are the ones giving girl sports fans a bad name–the first variety, who shriek at every new twist of the game like there’s a tarantula crawling up their leg.

I also assume things – I gave a ticket to the younger sister of a friend of mine a few (million) seasons ago – I knew that she hadn’t been to many games, but she was from Pittsburgh, so I assumed that she had some idea about the game (isn’t that a requirement for high school graduation?).

She sat through the whole first half – half time – and then, about midway through the 3rd quarter – right after PSU had scored (like their 7th) touchdown – she turned to me and said – “now, why did they just get 6 points?”

I dated a woman who didn’t care much for sports and date one who enjoys them a lot (the tenses in that sentence say a lot). One had issues with driving four hundred miles round trip to see the Red Sox down in Tampa (we’ll call her bitch for short); the other gave me surprise trips to Red Sox vs. Yankees games, like 1200 miles away… at freaking Fenway (we’ll call her goddess for short). It also may have had something to do with one never taking a sip of alcohol and the other being able to drink my Irish ass under the table. I’ll let you guess which is which.

So, I like women who are into sports more, with a small caveat… don’t fake it. Oh, you can fake the other thing every time, just not the love of sports. There’s only one thing worse than a woman who hates sports, and that’s a woman who fakes it just to impress her latest man. Just long enough to get her man hooks in him. Then after she moves into his apartment a week later she’s complaining about the game being on. “Gay’s Anatomy is on, turn the channel”, she yells. “Douchebottle,” I reply under my breath as I head out to the sports bar down the street that only plays dumb ass Braves games.

Interesting side story. When I went on that trip with the girlfriend to Boston (girlfriend goddess, not girlfriend bitch), we get to the hotel room and I turn on the TV to find the Red Sox game, a luxury we are not afforded in the south. What game is on you ask? You guessed it, the f**king Braves! I swear to God. If you live down south you know that the Braves are always on TV and no other game, ever, so don’t ask. I grew to hate Ted Turner for this. Another reason for a southerner to get pissed in Boston? Going to a bar and the band playing Lynyrd Skynyrd. Ya’ll listen to that shit up here too? Damn it!

Anyway, the best part about dating a chick that is into sports—even if she just enjoys the event for its drinking opportunities—is the fact that she can keep my dumb ass out of trouble. Tailgating without at least one woman is never fun and always degrades into one guy body slamming another guy into a large North Florida mud puddle because you “talked shit about his coach.” Listen here asshole, he’s not your coach, unless of course he’s got a part time job as a life coach at night and is teaching you how to cope with the fact that you still piss to bed at night and blame it on being an alcoholic.

Wait, I’m I having this fight again? You see, point proven; I need my female arbitrator here to save my stupid ass once again. Got to go. It’s time to go see the Jags lose to themselves tonight at practice. Wish me luck since it’s raining and there are large puddles everywhere.

I have a different angle on this, too. I was fortunate enough to grow up in a town and a state and a part of the country where football is a religion, amongst a huge passel of boys who just took it for granted that everyone knows how it works. So I never had most of the bad experiences the other girls had to go through…until I left the South. I think most of my coworkers think I’m some kinda Martian, toting my Phil Steele around.

State College was an odd town in which to grow up – football is a religion – but not everyone goes to church. I grew up in a football household: I went to pre-school at Penn State; I prayed to the football gods while listening to games on the radio so that Daddy would be in a good mood when he came home; I saved up holiday cash so I could buy my favorite player’s jersey; I knew all of the fight songs (well, from birth it would seem) and I would adapt the words to fit the names of my elementary school sports teams; and, so on.

But then, all these outsiders come to live – and go to school – and they have an entirely different spin on what’s great/cool/special – kids from Philly/NJ were tough (surprise?) – they wanted a basketball team and a decent radio station – the kids from the burgh were great fans, but the Pittsburgh teams were still #1 in their hearts (they also had a penchant for the ugliest sports garb – airbrushed tank tees, etc) – kids from elsewhere were usually really good fans – ohio, ny, dc (i guess they really wanted to be there).

Awesome post. My uncles had never given me the time of day at family parties other than the requisite “Hi Jules, how are you” and “Can you get me another Yuengling?” But the day I overheard them discussing McNabb’s stats and who’s the best quarterback, and was able to contribute? They actually saw me as someone they could speak to, and not the walking something carrying the tray with the spicy crab dip.

I could date a guy who wasn’t into sports, but I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t. I LIVE for football season, and he’d have to understand that I not only have to catch EVERY Eagles game, but that there will be at least 2 or 3 other fascinating lineups that I’d want to watch.

I’ve had serious relationships with women who were very uninterested in sports (to the point of being hifalutin). The reason I was so attracted to my ex was her knowledge of the Atlanta Braves, circa 80s and played strat-o-matic baseball. However, it turned out while she was interested in the Braves of the 80s, that was all she was interested in sports was. It took me years to figure that out because I was dense.

I think there are more women not into sports than there are women into sports, so men (not unlike women) make choices over what is important (looks, income, sanity, ability to rear alien children, steelrs vs. eagles, etc.) and what is less important.

I think you can have a good relationship with someone who is not a big a fan, as long as they don’t make it personal. Many of the dorks who got mad, tried to out-stat you, pushed you over arguments, definitely have an issue with women knowing more than they do. However, I find that unbelievably awesome in someone.

On the flip side, I love playing sports, but I get very bored watching. Well, I don’t get bored, but I enjoy talking to the people i’m with or people around me. Which is why I don’t go to a lot of events – I leave them to the people who will enjoy them more.

These are tough questions, but hopefully with enough alcohol and pillow fights, you girls can work these out.

I’d like to state, as a fact, that TSW introduced ME to sports. At the outset of our relationship, I was merely a guy who liked watching NFL, but had no team in principle that I gave a shit about.

Now, thanks in part to this blog and a variety of other reasons (having to do with “special beer on gameday in the fridge, just for me” and the famed TSW “Pizza Loaf”), I am a rabid NFL/Pittsburgh/Sports fan. And yes, I do get so involved in the some of the play-calling that I’ve been asked to leave the house for a “time out”.

Frankly, now, I couldn’t imagine hanging out with women who weren’t, at the very least, casual fans of professional sports. (Or someone who would yell at me to turn the channel when Sportscenter comes on.)

I got promptly dumped after a first date in college for telling the guy that I thought Gino Torretta was a waste of a Heisman. I still revel in the joy that I found out so fast how much of a douche he was :) My husband isn’t a big sports fan in that he doesn’t root for any particular teams, he just roots for a good game. He makes sure to root sincerely for all my teams; I wish he was more enthusiastic, but he is fully supportive and it works.

The funny thing about me being a sports blogger is: I couldn’t possibly match the passion and knowledge you dames have for sports. I’m basically a guy who loves some sports but has a shitty memory for facts & figures. I have a ton of opinions about the issues in sports, and a lot of curiousity that makes me willing to dig stuff up, but I don’t really live it every day outside of my blog.

Of course, a big part of that is that being a dad has completely absorbed my spare TV-watching time. Fortunately, my son is becoming a big baseball fan, so we can do the “bonding” thing and get some more sports time in.

Hypothetically it wouldn’t bother me if the missus knew more about sports than I do, because it would just be one more thing to add to the list. (Not kidding here; if I couldn’t do basic plumbing, car, and network / desktop maintenance plus carry heavy luggage it’s not clear that I’d add anything to the marriage. Actually, that’s not true, I bat clean-up on the Sunday NYT crossword puzzle because her geography and world history are atrocious.) And I grew up in a house where my mother was far more interested in sports than my father, at least until they discovered the joys of college football.

However, the missus is not really a sports fan. Prior to children, we had an agreement about the amount of time that I would burn on sports during daylight hours on the weekend – to keep the peace. It actually prompted me to watch the games I care about, rather than watch something because it was on. Now that we have children, like Extra P I spend most of my free time with them, although the girls do like soccer – preferably Italian, as the referees and goalies have the most colorful shirts (I am not making this up – but in their defense, they are only 5 and 2 1/2 respectively.)

FWIW it doesn’t bother me at all that the missus doesn’t care about “my” teams because they’re nothing to do with her, after all. I was genuinely stunned when she joined me in cheering for Scotland against the US in a pre-World Cup match in 98, and entertained when she arranged for a Michigan shirt to be smuggled into the house (her father is a professor there) to put on our older daughter before the 2003 Rose Bowl. The danger of taking on other people’s enthusiasms is in ending up like my mother-in-law, on her third husband and third set of life-defining enthusiasms taken from someone else. At some point you have to do your own thing, and live with what other people do / don’t take an interest in. Which is a bit off-topic, but not entirely.

Fuck me, I meant the 2004 Rose Bowl. Incidentally, as far as I can tell, if USC is playing Michigan in the Rose Bowl, and the missus puts a Michigan shirt on one of our children, Michigan loses. That must be causal; just as well I didn’t think to try putting the kids in burnt orange when I had the chance, eh Texas Gal?

For the record, I have mostly female friends, and among them, one of them knows more about baseball than any other person I know (even if she is a Braves fan), and my best friend from high school is passionate about hockey and cycling.

All I would like to meet is a nice young lady who is smart, funny and loves college football. I’d even accept a Sparty, because at least she’d care.

Okay, here is an interesting twist on this subject (at least interesting to me): What changes about this when the guy’s job is calling sports for a living. My goal is to become the next Al Michaels or Jim Nantz, so dating a girl who is not into sports at all would seem to be a very bad choice for me. That being said, I would also think that finding a girl who knew MORE about sports than me (at least from a technical standpoint) would be hard because I have spent my entire career learning the game as much as I could from coaches, players, other broadcasters etc. That’s not to say that lady isn’t out there (and probably writing on this site), but I wonder how my profession complicates things. Any thoughts on this from the Ladies…?

Also, Andie, because I have given you too much grief about the NCAA First Round Even Which Shall Not Be Named, you name something Hawkeyes you want and I will see to it my peeps in the Iowa athletic department get it for you. How’s that for a deal?

Well, Radioman, if, for the sake of argument, I were dating you, I wouldn’t care if you were a broadcaster or not. I have lots of opinions about sports, but I don’t follow the stats. Which is kind of retarded, I know. As long as you didn’t make me look like an ass for not knowing Roger Clemens’ ERA or Rex Grossman’s rating, I wouldn’t care. For you, those would be pieces of information that would be necessary for your work. For me, they’re just numbers.*

I would also add that I’d hope you do your job with a bit of grace and dignity i.e., don’t pontificate, don’t make a player’s acheivement your personal thing, and don’t come up with stupid catchphrases and nicknames for the players.

Basically, don’t be Chris Berman. I would not be your leather if you were.

As a dude who digs broads, I’ve dated quite a few Cubs fans. It never lasts.

As for the football thing, for me it’s a matter of good and evil. The evil being don’t ever correct me about something when I’m trying to have guy talk during a football game. If I say Peyton threw for 6,000 yards last season then you just smile and nod. If you correct me then you’re calling me out in front of my friends and that’s just embarrassing. Then somebody makes a Brett Myers joke and it gets all awkward.

The good though is knowing enough to correct one of my friends during an argument and call him out. Then he’s owned and we have crazy monkey love later on. Although the outside problem with the girl correcting my friend is being told that my chick fights my battles for me. But then I can just say I trained her well and it all works out.

I was thinking about this a little bit more after prematurely posting on it at Datehole…ah, isn’t it always premature? Anyway, an interesting comparison for this would be if I were dating a girl and watching one of her (Warning: Stereotype ahead!) reality shows like that Americas Next Top Sticks With Boobs show hosted by that crazy harpy and I busted out in front of her friends with all sorts of crap like, “Her handling of the situation in that shoot wasn’t nearly as bad as so-and-so’s in season two when….blaaaaaaah blah.” Sweet baby Christ Jesus that would not go over well. Unless I immediately afterward came out of the closet.

And what are sports but the original reality television? Crazy characters. Unknown endings. Fans for different participants. Reality TV’s ascension was basically programmers figuring out how to make sports for chicks. And just as most women wouldn’t find me very attractive anymore if I knew more than they did about which fame-desperate, insane, please-rescue-me-from-porn wannabe was going to get to do coke off Luke Wilson’s penis, men have a hard time finding a woman attractive who is able to tell us which games Buck is going to call this year and why that’s bad for all of us…

Hedgehog– you have no idea, man. No frickin’ idea. I’m hoping TSW will one day show me how to make this on my own so I may bring it to football and poker parties and be the envy of all my friends who are far too unskilled and lazy to make the commitment to a Pizza Loaf.

Also, I think it’s interesting that most of the guys who have posted here have been very positive about dating/being married to women who are interested in sports. But one comments seems troubling: “I just don’t want a girl to show me up when I’m with my friends.” I mean, being emasculated certainly is a valid fear, but do most guys really feel like their girlfriend/wife/fling is going to show-them up if given the opportunity?

Maybe I’m naive in this opinion, but I feel like if your girlfriend is with you and your friends, she knows when to bite her tongue and let you talk out your ass about how the Steelers are a “Dynasty Team,” even though you’ve only been a fan for a little less than a year. (Thanks, TSW.)

I’m just giving the benefit of doubt here to all the women. You wouldn’t intentionally open your purses in front of all our friends and proudly display that shiny jar with our testicles floating in it, would you?

But I hate reality TV. It’s not real, everything is scripted, and the producers choose the winner before the show even airs. Sorry everyone, you didnt really just choose the next American Idol. It’s nothing like sports. Well, maybe the NBA.

“Professor at Berkeley… Helped draft Kyoto Protocol… DOESN’T EVEN OWN A TEE-VEE” (emphasis mine). Triple heh. For the last item. Since I’m sure that sentence two of any conversation was, ‘Not only do I not watch television, I don’t even own a television’. I hate those guys (& gals); is why I would never live in Riverwest. (That, & not wanting to get mugged or stabbed, or hassled for change by crust-punks/hippies).

TSB, like I said in one of the emails: I never do it on purpose. But without thinking, it’ll happen. The instance I’m thinking of was one time my boyfriend said something about a baseball player that was just absurd. I wish I could remember the exact thing, but he says something like, “So-&-so hit like .320 last year and had a ton of home runs” and without even thinking, just reacting to how absurd that was, I go, “No, he didn’t. He hit .280 and he had like 5. My grandma hit better than him last year.”

It was in a room full of his friends and they all were cracking up and he was so pissed at me. I didn’t do it on purpose, but I did it nonetheless.

The whole bit I wrote about girls who like football being annoying was a total throwaway paragraph. I really didn’t give it a great deal of thought. It was really just a way to lead into Datehole’s material, which was worthwhile, unlike my theories on girls, football, etc.

Why are girls who like football annoying? I have no f’ing clue. I’m not even sure they are. Except for my ex-girlfriend. She’s a Steelers fan. No offense.

You wouldn’t intentionally open your purses in front of all our friends and proudly display that shiny jar with our testicles floating in it, would you?

Yeah, like Lady Andrea said, I didn’t do it on purpose. The instance I’m thinking about was a discussion who was on the 2000 Yankees World Series roster, and my husband said Joe Schmoe (can’t even remember the player) was not on it, and I told him and everyone else Yeah, he was. I think where I went too far was in actually going to the computer and printing out the roster and showing him, and everyone else, that Joe Schmoe was indeed on it. When we left he was furious, and told me I should back him up. I just said “even when you’re wrong?” Hoo boy.

I did love needling him, engaging him in debate – but that was mostly when we were alone.

Good times.

And I agree with Pam – I hate reality tv. Now, if you told me I met a guy that knew more about, say, The O.C. than I did, I’d love it! (I missed almost the entire Season 3 because, frankly, it sucked during season 3.)

It’s weird, I spoke to my boyfriend about this, and he said that while he likes that I’m into sports, he also likes that I understand that there will be times when he wants to go watch the game with the guys. Sans me. (even though, 6 months ago, he would’ve taken me, because we’re best friends. )

I am a sports fanatic too. My sister-in-law laughs when I start ranting about so-and-so’s 0-4 night and swears that I know more than my brother (I really don’t). I am not good at lifetime stats and all that. I read the box scores, see how my cousin’s friends are doing on the respective teams in baseball, see if teams I don’t like got killed, etc. I watch Sportscenter every night, along with HGTV and MTV.

My husband loves the fact that I am a die-hard, but had to tell me to chill out when I was pregnant with our son and yelling at the TV while watching football. :) I just can’t help it! He came out ok and is already a Buckeye fan.

PSUGirl~ We’ll be in town for the Ohio State-Penn State game…I’ll be in Scarlet and Gray though. (We have friends in Happy Valley.) PSU is so fun and they’re my second-favorite Big Ten team.

Talk about getting your money’s worth… A nice lengthy post followed by extra helpings of comments.

I’ve never dated who was more into sports than I was/am, but it’s fair to say the great majority of them had some sort of interest in at least one sport outside any involvement on my part. I do wonder what it would be like to be involved with a woman who was much better steeped in a sporting matter than I. (which, as I’ve become increasingly a more casual fan of everything other than soccer, wouldn’t be too difficult)

I just find the fact that guys find this ‘annoying’ simply to be a character flaw in the guy. Does it bother him if she knows more about gardening than him? How about some other gender-related stereotype? Doubtful. Then, how about finances? Bonds? Foriegn markets? Real estate? How about plumbing? Or that sounds my car’s engine is making? How would they react to that?

My last GF is currently finishing up her Ph.d in Microbiology and Immuniology. She knows more about building proteins to attack cancer cells than I could ever care to learn. I’m impressed by her knowledge but not threatened by it b/c I’ve no problem with the fact that she’s smarter than I.

But, what if I too were a microbiologist? Is that they key for guys like that? Do they not care about a female’s level of expertise/intelligence in something until it ‘infringes’ into an area in which they consider themselves to well-versed?

If I were to come across a lovely lady who knew more about soccer than I did, a sport which I LOVE, why would I find that annoying? Unless one is using sports as a treehouse refuge/boys club, you’d think that being able to share your passion with somebody with sports IQ would be exciting.

I think TSB brings up a valid point about emasculation, and at the risk of over-simplifying everything, I believe it all boils down to insecurity (as mentioned far earlier by others). A multitude of these posts seem to reference guys whose basic logic skills seem to disappear once they’ve get flustered by a possibly superior female sporting IQ.

*shrug* I felt like I was driving at a point here but I’ve completely lost the plot. I’ll end this by saying it’s silly and probably indicitive of larger issues to be discovered further down the road.

I grew up watching basketball, and started watching football (all kinds) in college. I’ll even watch arena if the Rush are playing.

My boyfriend was initially taken aback when he learned about the ferocity of my sports love. However, I think that he slowly realized that he would have to at least know a little bit about sports if we were going to co-exist. Now we’ll watch sportscenter together and send each other stories about who got signed/arrested during work hours. He’s not as rabid as I am, but it’s become something we both can enjoy together.

Chris – You know we still love you right? We just like bold statements like that to have reasons and arguments behind them. Sorry you had a bad experience with a Steeler fan. I promise we’re not all evil.

Andie and Metsy – TSB will tell you I am a master of “Look”. The “Look” that says, “Listen sweetie, I know you think that, but you’re wrong and if you want to save this discussion in front of all our friends you might want to back down on saying that you think that the A’s are going to win the World Series, because clearly you are drunk and everyone is too polite to tell you.”

Sven – I really like your treehouse comparison. (Which, if you read the Sportsgirl365 link, is the point she makes too.) I get that, and I think both men and women need that space. This is really why I like what we do here at Ladies. It gives us our space too.

But being in a relationship means that you say, “Hey, I need a night/afternoon with just the guys.” Be honest. (And try not make it every game. Because if that happens, I’m not going to stay home just because you went out. I can find my own spot at a sports bar on my own, and you have to be okay with that too.)

TSB, I’m not implying that I’m threatened by a girl showing me up in a conversation. I’m simply saying that she needs to be the Hillary to my Bill and let me do my thing when I’m with my people and just stand there and nod, maybe preach a little about health care.

Eventually she’ll have her time to shine, and maybe along the way she’ll let me bag an intern or two.

By the way, this pizza loaf thing has me really intrigued. If there’s a recipe I’d like to subscribe to it.

See, the thing is that I didn’t realize I was making a bold statement. What I said about girls who like football wasn’t even the point of the post. Had it been, it would’ve been a more developed thought.

i live out in new mexico and most of my boyfriends are hispanic..one i was seeing would come over on fri..he’s not into sports which is fine by me…i am a redsox/metsfan…i follow football too…anyways everytime he came over on fri. and do our little thing the sox would win …so i told him your like my good luck charm and he said “why?” i said every time etc..the sox would win..which was my way of not scaring him with my sports obsession but trying to include him without freaking him out…so next fri comes can’t get in touch w/ him another week nothing…he’s got kids and has them at his house all the time so i wasn’t surprised…i finally get in touch w/ him and say “hey when are we going to get together ?” he says “i think you only want to see me because you think i make your team win….and i don’t like girls into sports i think its weird.” now, when this guy and i go out i never talk about baseball or anything. i never have a game on or make him wait if, i’m waiting for end of a sox game….anything like that …out where i’m at women sports fans are well… its best to keep that quiet unless you know the guy is opened minded because out here, women are not supposed to be into sports. if you are they think at lot of wrong things about you.not sure where i’m going with this but its nice to know i’m not the only one who has problems with this issue…thanks

Thanks for posting this and reassuring me that I’m not abnormal about my sports-lovin. I’m super passionate about my CFB team (OU) and super passionate about my NASCAR. Many times at bars, I will ditch my not-as-enthusiastic gfs in order to watch the game or the race. More than once, I have been asked out because my sports knowledge. But I have always managed to date guys who don’t share my team and I think that completely helps. I have never dated a guy who didn’t like sports, and have never dated a guy who wasn’t passionate about at least one sport. I don’t know what I would I do if that ever happened. Probably get bored. Again, thanks for this posting (and I’m just catching up on everything now, work was hell this week!!)

Good to hear this stuff from a woman’s perspective as there are already enough articles and blog posts about this from a male’s perspective, including the ridiculous GQ article from two or three months ago in which the writer stated that it was the worst thing ever to date a girl who was into sports. Whew! That was a long sentence.

Anyway, all the girls I’ve dated have been okay with sports or at least with me liking sports. However, it was always one of those, “Well, I like Kevin and he likes sports, so I guess sports are okay” sort of deals. I was fortunate enough to date a young woman about two years ago who really loved sports but mainly just Seattle Supersonics and University of Washington basketball. Since puberty, I had always thought that it’d be cool to date a girl who was a serious sports fan and I still thought it was the best thing ever.

I loved how I could write her an email and casually throw in a question about the Sonics firing Bob Hill and she’d write back with all this stuff about their front office that I never knew about and never cared to know about. Not to mention post coital NCAA Tournament talk (TMI?) and the fact that she demanded we watch the McDonald’s High School game because she loved Martell Webster and was hoping he would keep his commitment to go to UW.

The first time I got in touch with her after we broke up was to razz her about how her beloved Martell was going to be a Portland Trail Blazer. Even now, when I no longer care about basketball and even less about her, I still get this urge to write her when something big happens with the Sonics or Huskies.

I think I would die of excitement if I dated a girl who loved hockey.

——–

As a guy who works with expensive clothes all day long, I have a capacity to talk about women’s clothes without sounding either stupid or, you know, perverted. However, I’ve always found that being a guy who can tell you what they think about the fall line of Chloe is not the same as being a girl who can map out an argument as to why the PAC-10 is underrated. Basically, girls don’t always like guys who encroach on their territory, either.

Aha, I had a very similar revelation to Sven’s yesterday. You know what it may be? It’s that the guy feels overlapped. Suppose I’m with a girl that’s better-looking than me, more creative than me, richer, and more socially adept. None of those is necessarily saying much for many a man, ha. BUT being smarter than me, and more athletic than me? Uh-oh…those are my fallbacks, my strengths. Then, what do I bring to the relationship? Nothing; she has more skills than me in every category. I am completely overlapped. And oh no, why would she stay with me? I bring nothing to the relationship! I’m a loser! etc. :-p I wonder, is that what some of those men to whom you refer were thinking over the years? That you finally overlapped him in every category by showing that you knew sports too? Being completely out-pointed by someone else is intimidating. Anyway, yes, this topic was just a little too fascinating for me. I’m pretty sure this is like 3 months worth of comments for me on the site or something. :-)

kevin thanks for the insight, but what if your careful…see i only talk sports with my brothers or another friend back east…i work w/guys all day i know they don’t like you encroaching on there turf…i believe there are certain things that are guystuff we women may not understand it but we should except that..and vice versa…i try to remember that,thanks mcbias good insight too

When I was in college, I dated a girl from Colorado… we got to know each other over NBA Live 99 three-point shooting contests. We did some playful shit-talking concerning Red Wings-Avalanche (which to me is awesome), and I didn’t mind so much when the Broncos won the Super Bowl that year.

I like talking about events more than statistics… they make better stories. I’ll let Mike & Mike talk about who is the best power forward ever, meanwhile I will stick to explaining why Kent Hrbek is a fucker.

Kevin – Do you have a link or remember when that GQ article was? I’d like to read it. (BTW – You can ALWAYS talk about Fashion Week around me. I tend to pray the alter of Gucci and Chanel, but a cute little Chloe number will always get my attention.)

I’ve never been a big Gucci or Chanel fan, but generally speaking, my favourites are Chloe, Philip Lim and the occasional Pucci or Tori Burch. As for men’s, I’ll take a nice Paul Smith or Zegna suit anyday.

You know, to be serious on this subject because this is really one of the best blogs y’all have ever posted, I think the sexiest thing in the world would be for a girl to whisper “That Trent Green trade was incredibly stupid” into my ear right at the point of climax.

I’ve never posted but this topic is one that I feel very strongly about. I’m glad to hear that I am not the only girl out there who feels the same way I do (besides my best friend Jano Fabulous who comments here occasionally). For the longest time I’ve been “that girl” who was REALLY into sports. And guys couldn’t believe it. A few stories to back this up:

Last year Jano Fabulous and I went on a 7 games in 7 days road trip following the STL Cardinals to Cincinnati for 4 days and Pittsburgh for 3. Over the course of the trip I managed to shame one random stranger sitting beside me with a group of his friends so badly that he changed seats. Only because I knew more about a trade from several years ago between the Cardinals and the Braves (his team). Later on a bus back to our hotel we had an entire conversation with a Reds fan that could not believe 2 girls would love baseball enough to follow them around to games 7 days in a row without boyfriends dragging us to said games. Of course he then tried to pass it off that we just thought the boys were cute. Ok, so that is an added bonus, but I would truly still love the game as much if they all looked like trolls. This man also told us that there was no way the Cards were making the playoffs cuz they were having a down year. I told him that we may have been having a down year but we were still in 1st place. I really wish I could track that guy down now and give him an ’06 World Series Champs pennant.

Last year at Spring Training we informed a couple of “fans” that the Scott Spiezio that was playing for the Cards was the same one that played for Anaheim and Seattle and that he was also a former Illini (the alma mater of both myself and Jano Fabulous). Jano and I were wearing Edmonds and Mulder shirts respectively and they asked if we were Mrs. Mulder and Mrs. Edmonds because obviously that is the only way we could have any knowledge of this information. And this year on a trip out to Oakland for the Cards/A’s series a group of 20-something guys couldn’t believe we knew high schools/hometowns of our players.

I will also say that I have once ended a relationship with a guy because he wasn’t as much into sports as I was. I was setup with a guy that was sold to me as a Cards fan and sports fan in general. Things were not really clicking but it definitely came to an end when I mentioned something about Bill Self leaving Illinois for Kansas and he asked who Bill Self was. It wouldn’t be so bad if it wasn’t right in the middle of the whole leaving controversy that was all of the the local news. That was the proverbial nail in the coffin. I could date a guy who is a fan of a rival team. But not a fan at all just won’t fly with me. As a girl who will be attending an Illinois/Mizzou opening football game in STL at 2:30 and then literally running to the Cards game at 6:15 (yes literally running as it will be cutting it very close…stupid game time change) a love of sports is a must for me!

I love this! I’ve found that the guys who are the most comfortable with my sports knowledge are the ones who absolutely have to know more than I know about sports, like the production assistant on NFL Tonight (2Nite? Whatever.) He would email me tidbits about starting QBs, coaching match-ups, etc. before they’d appear on TV. That was my most successful year in the office football pool! The relationships with guys who don’t like sports just don’t last. In the wrestling/UFC world, guys are resistant at first, but the second you let them know that you know what a granby roll is, or you make a sex joke about letting him get in your guard, you’re usually in.

The other day, I was accused (by a male coworker) of only being a fan of the “cute” players, in this case specifically on the Phillies (and more specifically, Chase Utley and Cole Hamels). I shut him up when I named two players who I guess aren’t as hot to him as other favorites (Rowand and Victorino, for the record). Nevermind the fact that I always carry on conversations involving various aspects of baseball with him and another coworker.

Then today, I was talking to yet another coworker about the Mets, and I mentioned something about D-Wright, and how he’s on my fantasy team, and he sort of chuckled and was like “Oh, WHICH FANTASY TEAM, haha?” …dude, seriously…what the hell?! The only thing I could say was “Uh, my Yahoo! fantasy team?” and walk away because I was not in the mood for it today.

I mean, granted, there are some sexy sexy baseball boys, and I enjoy watching them as much as the game itself but…take the case of Utley. I love to watch the man play…he’s electric, and it doesn’t MATTER what he looks like. I really resent the fact that just because I’m a chick, I’m expected to only watch baseball for the hot men. That’s just a bonus to me–I know about the game too! Not as much as some, but I’m learning.

Look, I don’t know how on topic this was, because it’s late and I had a rough week and I’m deliriously tired, but I just wanted to get it out. WOMEN LIKE BASEBALL TOO.

@Chasevid: That’s exactly what I like about this site. We can read about and talk about athletes while still acknowledging their hotness. I feel like I can’t do that when I’m talking sports with other people.

If my woman corrected some knowledge of sports for me in front of my friends, I would laugh and say “this is why I love her – she knows more than I do!” However, there are ways to say things which come out as mean, and other ways where it’s all friendly and sweet. I think it comes down to trust – do you trust your spouse to have your best interests at heart and will not knowingly attempt to embarrass you? trust her/him and its all good.

Referring to Moonshine Mike’s comment: I still cringe about a time I embarrassed my wife without meaning to. When we’re joking around at home we’ll call each other names, and I did a “duh, dumbass!” kind of comment in her direction when we were at a party where not too many people knew us. They looked at me like I was a fucking monster.

I’m smack dab in the middle of a blogging sabbatical, so I’m glad I found this one in my Google Reader.

A very interesting e-mail thread. Sometimes I feel like blogger e-mail threads are as entertaining as the actual blogs themselves. I’m sure we’ve all wanted to read how our favorite bloggers work.

I have to admit, as much as I enjoy strong, independent women (Iron Fist of Wife!) and consider myself a nice guy, I can be a jerk when it comes to sports stuff. Without even thinking about it, I’ll nitpick a detail in an otherwise factual statement or great opinion from my wife. Or even worse, restate what she said in more technical terms in the same conversation without acknowledging her. It’s so hard to admit, but it’s true. When she brings it to my attention I feel like a royal ass because I’m “that guy”. It’s almost subconcious but I’m making an effort to be more thoughtful about it. I even feel bad admitting it here because I feel the need to defend myself.

Without going into too much detail, I’m sure it has to do with feeling threatened in the stereotypical male area of “expertise”, which the Ladies… referenced and I’m sure someone above said (I didn’t read the comments too carefully… there I go again taking credit for someone’s idea as my own. I apologize in advance). Insecurity, thy name is man!

PS I thought I was the coolest guy in the world when I stole the word douchenozzle some weeks ago from Petros Papadakis, a local radio host, who used the term for Matt Leinart. If you read my interview with him, I actually ask a question about it. Apparently he stole it from a listener. Metsy, are you listening to LA Sports Talk radio?

I like adventure, travel and people. I am easily amused and easy going. I jog, bike, swim, hike, raft, picnic, nap under trees, read good books, laugh, and play outside!!! I am open-minded, educated, financially secure, caring, responsible, and health conscious. I enjoy out of the way restaurants, off-off broadway shows, music, dancing, cuddling, people watching, movies, holding hands, and last minute fun!!! I have planted a yard full of fruit trees, bushes, and vines, and love to garden.i believe love can’t be affected by time,space or distance its what we feel inside..

I am a practising Sunni Urdu-Speaking Muslim and residing in USA for years. I am sincere, sharing, compassionate, openminded, humorous,romantic, eloquent, confident, ambitious, self-aware, tolerant, and very loving. I beleive that marriage is a lifetime commitment but mutual understanding, trust, honesty, care and love have to be the main ingredients for successful and happy marriage life. I also beleive in Family and Islamic values.

People describe me as being a very genuine, intelligent and sweet person. I have a great affection for animals and love to be outdoors. In fact, the more I’m outdoors – the happier I am. I’d love for someone to make me laugh – that would be wonderful. I’m a pretty simple and easy to please person. I’m also very open minded and non judgemental.word form jennifer willaims, you can comtact me at tropical_in@yahoo.com

I like adventure, travel and people. I am easily amused and easy going. I jog, bike, swim, hike, raft, picnic, nap under trees, read good books, laugh, and play outside!!! I am open-minded, educated, financially secure, caring, responsible, and health conscious. I enjoy out of the way restaurants, off-off broadway shows, music, dancing, cuddling, people watching, movies, holding hands, and last minute fun!!! I have planted a yard full of fruit trees, bushes, and vines, and love to garden.i believe love can’t be affected by time,space or distance its what we feel inside..

I am a practising Sunni Urdu-Speaking Muslim and residing in USA for years. I am sincere, sharing, compassionate, openminded, humorous,romantic, eloquent, confident, ambitious, self-aware, tolerant, and very loving. I beleive that marriage is a lifetime commitment but mutual understanding, trust, honesty, care and love have to be the main ingredients for successful and happy marriage life. I also beleive in Family and Islamic values.

People describe me as being a very genuine, intelligent and sweet person. I have a great affection for animals and love to be outdoors. In fact, the more I’m outdoors – the happier I am. I’d love for someone to make me laugh – that would be wonderful. I’m a pretty simple and easy to please person. I’m also very open minded and non judgemental.you can contact me with this email tropical_ind@yahoo.com am free to chat with people