Inca Roads-We Are Not Alone:<br><br>Inca Roads deals with the question of flying saucers and the Nazca plains, those (for you who don't know) are enormous drawnings in Peru (I think), made by the Incas, that some people claim that were suposed to be a form of comunications with the gods (or flying saurces, or even "airports"):<br><br>E.g.) <br><br>A hummingbird:<br><br><br><br>A Spider (of destiny?):<br><br><br><br>If I got it right, the tilte from the instruemental " We Are Not Alone", may exposes Franks views that such thing actually exists...<br><br>I was wondering what YOU people out there think of things like UFOs or Conspiracies Theories and stuff: How many of you folks are really skepticall, how many of you claim to have seen UFOs, etc... What are your beliefs and opinions on Flying Saucers and ETs ;D

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=0#0 date=01/28/04 at 05:42:40]Inca Roads-We Are Not Alone:<br><br>Inca Roads deals with the question of flying saucers and the Nazca plains, those (for you who don't know) are enormous drawnings in Peru (I think), made by the Incas, that some people claim that were suposed to be a form of comunications with the gods (or flying saurces, or even "airports"):<br><br>E.g.) <br><br>A hummingbird:<br><br><br><br>A Spider (of destiny?):<br><br><br><br>If I got it right, the tilte from the instruemental " We Are Not Alone", may exposes Franks views that such thing actually exists...<br><br>I was wondering what YOU people out there think of things like UFOs or Conspiracies Theories and stuff: How many of you folks are really skepticall, how many of you claim to have seen UFOs, etc... What are your beliefs and opinions on Flying Saucers and ETs ;D[/quote]<br>i'm a raelian and believe in every conspiracy theory going.....except for the ones about the nazca plains....these were simply ceremonial drawings relating to the astrological knowledge that was help by the incas at this time. There's actually a few threads dedicated to conspiracy theories...check out http://www.bilderberg.orghttp://www.davidicke.com

i believe in extraterrestrial intelligence, there is no way (imo) that there isnt life out there. i just dont know what exactly they are, from another galaxy, or us millions of years in the future coming back to "help" us, trying to figure out what went wrong thru the generations. there are so many theories out there, i used to be more up on all of these. aliens are more real than jesus and his henchmen, imo. ever seen a pic of jesus? thats what i thought ;). just dont ask the US government about their alien technology.............

While I agree with your analysis of "Inca Roads", I have to point out that "We Are Not Alone" had lyrics at one point in its development. This is what I found on http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/songs/We ... Alone.html <br><br>Comments:<br><br> From: Jon Naurin <br> WANA w/ vocals is part of "Stevie's Real Spanking", a collage of home made recordings by Steve Vai. I don't know if there are lyrics for all of the song, but this is what I've heard sung during the bridge (from 1981 rehearsals).<br><br> From: Charles Ulrich <br> Here are the corrected lyrics to "We Are Not Alone". Jon's "Harris Rolling" sounds right to me, but it should be verified by someone who has actually heard of the brand.<br><br> From: Biffyshrew<br> >was a banana and a Harris Rolling [???] stereo<br> If I remember right, that last line is "Was the banana and the hairbrush<br> both in stereo" (by which I understand him to be talking about double<br> penetration).<br><br>She had a hairbrush with a dildo at the end of it<br>She wanted Stevie to go in and out a little bit<br>He then decided that an even better way to go<br>Was a banana and a Harris Rolling [???] stereo<br>(or: Was the banana and the hairbrush both in stereo)<br><br>He took the challenge and he revved it up to warp nine<br>She said that he should be a porno-poocher all the time<br>He rubbed again and then adjusted his bikini shorts<br>And tried to talk her into rubber love and water sports<br>

Well, I don't know anymore what to belive...<br><br>I've been raised a catholic christian, became a agnostic and skeptical man of science (maybe litlle science). But I consider mylsef to have a reasonable scientific trainning to scrutinize (centrally) among a series of natural phenomena or a grotesque fraud (the L. Delite thread will judge that for us).<br><br>I never doubted (and now, I am more convinced) of a vast existance of life across the universe), but I was always led to the scientific scapes for UFO phenomena and alike. Like one of my childhood idols (don't laugh) Carl Sagan would, explain: photos of UFOs are frauds, people make mistakes or imagine things, etc...<br><br>Even the Eric Von Daken (Were the Gods Astronats? book) stuff that deals, among others things, with Inca Roads explanations were demolished by a Archeologist expert, in the 80s still, back in my home town...<br><br>But some sightings of my own, plus a lot of otherwise "folckloric takles", I begun to supect that there is a possibility of a reality in that our govnements know a lot more of UFO nature and that stuff as Roswell might have been someyhing real...<br><br>for stuff on that I recommend http://www.ufoskeptic.org<br><br>ARF

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Well, a few years ago I didnt know what to think of UFO's and a what not.<br>But one night a freind and I were sitting at a park, having a rest on the way back to his house. We stood up and walked about ten metres, and saw some lights flashing across the sky. We turned around and saw (very, very close) a oval shaped object, that at first glance i thought was a blimp, in the sky. It had light all the way around it, and sat extremely still. <br>Now, as unusual as that was, this really freaked us out.<br>We took no more than 5 steps, turned around to have another glance...it was gone. <br><br><br><br>Bizarre, huh?

[quote author=Billy link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=0#5 date=01/28/04 at 08:12:42]While I agree with your analysis of "Inca Roads", I have to point out that "We Are Not Alone" had lyrics at one point in its development. This is what I found on http://globalia.net/donlope/fz/songs/We ... Alone.html <br><br>Comments:<br><br> From: Jon Naurin <br> WANA w/ vocals is part of "Stevie's Real Spanking", a collage of home made recordings by Steve Vai. I don't know if there are lyrics for all of the song, but this is what I've heard sung during the bridge (from 1981 rehearsals).<br><br> From: Charles Ulrich <br> Here are the corrected lyrics to "We Are Not Alone". Jon's "Harris Rolling" sounds right to me, but it should be verified by someone who has actually heard of the brand.<br><br> From: Biffyshrew<br> >was a banana and a Harris Rolling [???] stereo<br> If I remember right, that last line is "Was the banana and the hairbrush<br> both in stereo" (by which I understand him to be talking about double<br> penetration).<br><br>She had a hairbrush with a dildo at the end of it<br>She wanted Stevie to go in and out a little bit<br>He then decided that an even better way to go<br>Was a banana and a Harris Rolling [???] stereo<br>(or: Was the banana and the hairbrush both in stereo)<br><br>He took the challenge and he revved it up to warp nine<br>She said that he should be a porno-poocher all the time<br>He rubbed again and then adjusted his bikini shorts<br>And tried to talk her into rubber love and water sports<br>[/quote]<br><br>Well, Than it hasn't nithing to do to aliens...<br>

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

[quote author=stride link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=0#7 date=01/28/04 at 22:41:01]<br><br> Until proven otherwise,..<br><br> All U.F.O.'s are Man made[/quote]<br><br><br>The way someone would have to PROVE the existence of an UFO, would be by:<br><br>1) Phisycally capture the space ship<br><br>2) Take a photograph/video, which stands uoo to tests to verify photomontage, adobe photoshops and frauds in general.<br><br>3) Massive sighting (many unrelated people seeing it at the same time).<br><br>4)Metereology experts/flying professionals sightings.<br><br>Though I can not prove it, about #1, I am most convinced now, that all the other points have happened... But even some fantastic stories about UFO crashes in the US and Brazil, now gain more credbility and plausibility. And all that just would stand for the obscurity and secrecy if, indeed, there were a conspiracy global cover-up operation...<br><br>I am not affirming that is what happens, but today I am begining to consider all that amazing possibilities as real ones...

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

lol, a definate "maybe"((:<br><br>To quote good ole Carl on this one, "Fantastic claims need fantastic proof."<br>Also, a fantastic truth such as this would inherently produce a fantastic proof, which IMHO we don't have yet. Lack of evidence is not evidence either way, so I'm neutral on the question. Maybe I'll know someday, but I think it's likely that I'll never know, (which is fine with me).<br><br>I'm for searching more with SETI as that may be our best shot at getting fantastic proof.

_________________"Winning the war on jihadist extremism is the Democratic Party's first priority this year and every year until the danger recedes" Open letter from the (Clintonite) Democratic Leadershp Council

[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=0#11 date=01/29/04 at 03:48:39]<br><br><br>The way someone would have to PROVE the existence of an UFO, would be by:<br><br>1) Phisycally capture the space ship<br><br>2) Take a photograph/video, which stands uoo to tests to verify photomontage, adobe photoshops and frauds in general.<br><br>3) Massive sighting (many unrelated people seeing it at the same time).<br><br>4)Metereology experts/flying professionals sightings.<br><br>Though I can not prove it, about #1, I am most convinced now, that all the other points have happened... But even some fantastic stories about UFO crashes in the US and Brazil, now gain more credbility and plausibility. And all that just would stand for the obscurity and secrecy if, indeed, there were a conspiracy global cover-up operation...<br><br>I am not affirming that is what happens, but today I am begining to consider all that amazing possibilities as real ones...[/quote]<br><br>Only one of the four points you listed in relation with UFO's existence would correspond to a real important fact.<br><br>Although I am persuaded that the existence of other life forms (notwistanding whether they are "intelligent", which is human notion) is simply statistically certain (especially after the improved knowledge of terrestrial life forms in extreme environmental conditions), I am still waiting for ONE seriously ackowledgeed fact tending to prove the existence of UFOs.<br><br>If you are aware of this kind of serious proof, please let me know.<br><br>Até logo cara.

_________________I love monstermovies..and the cheaper they are the better they are.

[quote author=monstermovie link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=0#14 date=01/29/04 at 05:32:55]<br><br>Only one of the four points you listed in relation with UFO's existence would correspond to a real important fact.<br><br>Although I am persuaded that the existence of other life forms (notwistanding whether they are "intelligent", which is human notion) is simply statistically certain (especially after the improved knowledge of terrestrial life forms in extreme environmental conditions), I am still waiting for ONE seriously ackowledgeed fact tending to prove the existence of UFOs.<br><br>If you are aware of this kind of serious proof, please let me know.<br><br>Até logo cara.[/quote]<br><br>N* = 250 billion<br>(number of stars in the Milky Way Galaxy) <br> <br> <br> f p = 1/4<br>(fraction of stars that have planetary systems) <br> <br> <br> n e = 2<br>(number of planets in a given system that are ecologically suitable for life) <br> <br> <br> f l = 1/2<br>(fraction of otherwise suitable planets on which life actually arises) <br> <br> <br> f i = 1/10<br>(fraction of inhabited planets on which an intelligent form of life evolves) <br> <br> <br> f c = 1/10<br>(fraction of planets inhabited by intelligent beings on which a communicative technical civilization develops) <br> <br> <br> f L = 1/100<br>(fraction of a planetary lifetime graced by a technical civilization) <br> <br>From http://my.voyager.net/~stargazer/sagan.html<br><br><br>Yes, Monstermovie, it is statistically very propable that there is inteligent life out there, even more with recent discoveries of new found planets on similar start systems like ours...<br><br>I dispute that only one of the 4 topics would be good hard evidence, beacuse cientists tend to dissmis or disvalue evidence such as sightings repports or photographs, but the point is that not every repport or every photo is a fake/miscompreshension, once there are repports by trained people (who hardly would misindentify a natural pheomena or a airplane, etc...) of UFO sightings and there are reliable photos. IMO they are not so apparent beacuse of higher interests of keeping it secret untill now. I know it sounds fantastic and absurd, but as I've said before, I am begining to consider that as alternative hypothesis.<br><br>I have see UFOs myself, but at cost of my skeptcism, I diminished the value of such experience. It was like 1995 or 96 and today, I know it couldn't be the better alternative explanation (following Occkham's razor), a satellite. Satelites only move in on direction and one sense in the sky (I am not sure but east-west axis). I have seen simultaneously 4 to 5 small objects in the background of the night sky, moving so fast that you could see the they were following the sky dome form (an arc?), and they were going on different directions. I know a bit of astronomy to know they couldn't at any possibility be asteroids. When I saw the first one, I simply ignored it thinking it was a satellite, but when I saw another one, going in another direction I've pointed it out to other people who were with me. At the same time some other people that we didn't know, haven't speaked to them before, that were camped right next to us, they saw other poits moving behind us in the sky. Just small withe points very far away... I know it sounds silly, but I even kept from telling people this, so they won't look me weird, or think I was high (i wasn't). Of course that a skeptic person will always come with a alternative, that I was deluded or something....<br><br>I bet Frank have seen UFOs too so he wrote the "mother Marry and Joseph section on Inca Roads).<br><br>OPEN YOUR SCIENTIFIC MIND Monstermovie... We once didn't know the earth wasn't flat!

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Oh Monstermovie,<br>Of course there is the fact that it would be very hard to explain the HUMANOID forms of most suposed seen ETs out there, because of contingent history of Evolution...<br><br>I may be plain wrong on that, but If ETS really exists already in contact with human governements, and if they are really humanoids mabe Raelians are right!<br><br>ARF (I am going MAD!!!)

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

to be honest i think it would be foolish and exremely naive if not a little conceited also to assume that we were the only intelligent life forms in the universe. There are a few problems though, the chances of the being able to contact us and that's assuming they know we are here is the great distances it would take to reach us. Also it's a lot more important to find extelligent life rather than intelligent after all dolphins are intelligent but do they have a concept of space or further still think of beings from other planets and how to contact them. Extelligent life however, should have after 10 billion yers of evolution maybe produced societies that show signs of their intelligence e.g libraries, schools etc. These extelligent symbols would insinuate that they also think of space and contact..though maybe not. I'm pretty sure that not all ufo sightings can be accounted for by means of earthly science but whether the governments have been in contact with our friends in the federation of galaxies or whatever they're called is another matter. One puzzling thing about ufo sightings however is that many skeptics simply dismiss them as manifestations of our time citing that 100 years ago it was fairies and goblins people seen and now it's ufos. This doesn't however take into account the ufo imagery in medieval and renaissance religious paintings and even the carvings that have been attributed to the ancient mesopotamians the fathers of modern civilisation. There is one painting of jesus from the 16th century i can't remember the title or artist but it does show a strikingly modern image of a flying saucer...now they definitley didn't have the technology then to construct such things on earth..so where did it come from....maybe they have been visiting us and if any happen to be reading this please feel free to take me to your dealer...sorry leader

[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=15#15 date=01/29/04 at 06:18:33]<br><br> f i = 1/10<br>(fraction of inhabited planets on which an intelligent form of life evolves) <br> <br> <br> f c = 1/10<br>(fraction of planets inhabited by intelligent beings on which a communicative technical civilization develops) <br> <br>[/quote]<br><br>Care must be taken when handling parameters. These are always "fascinating".<br>EVEN if today we have the proof that "intelligent" (I insist, this is a human concept) life exists outside Earth the parameters fi and fc are artefacts.<br>How can you take these parameters as pertinent ? <br>In the case of the 1/2 fraction of planets where Life develops (or developed) you have a test: Earth and Mars. This makes your parameter robust.<br>But you cannot say the same for the fractions fi and fc.<br><br>[quote author=Mr_Green_Genes link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=15#15 date=01/29/04 at 06:18:33]<br> OPEN YOUR SCIENTIFIC MIND Monstermovie... We once didn't know the earth wasn't flat! [/quote]<br><br>Thanks for the advice. I am, however, persuaded to have an open mind. Otherwise it would be extremely difficult, or even impossible, difficult to be a palaeobiologist.<br>I do not (I cannot and I have no reasons to) contest your direct experience with possible UFOs or so.<br><br>Boa sorte.<br>

_________________I love monstermovies..and the cheaper they are the better they are.

Ok, Thanks Monstermovie,<br><br>I did not take it as such. I cannot transfer my experience to your brain, and I won't impose it as absoulute truth, it is my own. <br><br>I may had a collective allucination experience (although, that isn't the most simple explanation: parcimony principle).<br><br>I am saying all that ufo stuff, out of the bue, with a premisse: the one that we are kept away from the truth by authorities... Beacuse the allegeded lack of evidence takes this subjects to pseudoscience/metaphysics. But what I want to achieve is to gain counciousness if It is or if it isn't a matter of real science. Because if it is (i.e. frequent UFO phenomena), it would change quite a bit things as we see them... <br><br> I deeply respect your position as a paleobiologist, because it, more than a lot of other scientific activities, is based in carefull constructed arguments to support a hypothesis... There is always lots of uncertainties, thought, that sometimes are rather crucial, to hold important conditions/assumptions of what we affirm... This could be the case with UFOs...<br><br>About the parameters in Sagan's equation, I agree fully with you. In the Cosmos book Sagan talks of most conservative points of view yet delivering a minimun of some couples (say 2-4) of inteligent civilizations... Most liberal assumptions yield numbers of millions of inteligent species. This was way back in the 70-80s. Today we have gathered a much larger pool of favourable evidence for the existence of earth-like planets throughout the Via Lactea...<br><br>From going from that kind of argument to "there are ETs visiting the earth throughout our history" is a very large step, and to "and these is kept secret from us regular folks" is another huge way, but nonetheless it coulb be logically correct if we get to know some key facts that would be valid scientifically as, for example, say tales about catured ETs from notorious UFO crashs (if such thing ever happened)....<br><br>Sorry, I don't wanna annoyu anyone, just trying to share such a puzzling question...<br><br>Well, does anyone ever heard Frank's opinion on direct reference to UFOs, conspiracies, ets, crazy lunnatics discussing that, etc?

_________________The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true Art and Science. - Albert Einstein

Rael has a base here in Québec. Two female journalists entered that gang as new disciples. In fact, it was to see what was going on from the inside. Rael always cut short any interviews where he has to answer some hot questions, either be about sex or genetic cloning. I saw that countless times. <br><br>So, these two journalists stayed for 9 months. They saw a lot of things. When they left, they made a week-long article in the daily newspaper for which they were employed (and still are).<br><br>I already posted something about that some months ago. The conclusion is that Rael is a fraud. Maybe some outer life may exist, but certainly not with via an ambassador like him. I pretty guess that if you were to substract the "sex" gratifications of joining that movement, attendances would dramatically drop by at least 50%. A lot of men would get out for sure ;D <br><br>I knew about Rael and his gang from way back in 1978 when his first two books were published. Apart from him, and maybe some few very close to him who are totally devoted to him, nobody saw the "aliens". Curious, isn't it ?<br><br>Outer life may exist. But don't leave it in the hands of that "prophet" who was wise enough to see the gains he could make from those who do believe in aliens from outer space.<br><br>Hey, I should do that ! Tell me in what you believe and if there's no organised movement about it, I'll do it, and make money. Being jobless, it would be a warm welcome.

For those who are sensitive to life outside Earth and/or (just like me) simply love Science Fiction I suggest to read a fascinating book (at least I was fascinated):<br>"Seeding Stars" by James Blish.<br><br>Ciao

_________________I love monstermovies..and the cheaper they are the better they are.

[quote author=johnoppel link=board=rant;num=1075297360;start=15#18 date=01/29/04 at 07:46:28][center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center][/center]<br>[center]http://www.crystalinks.com/ufohistory.html[/center]<br>[center]these paintings weren't made yesterday, thats fer shure. ;)[/center][/quote]<br>thanks for the pics john and thanks for the link ;D

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