At 640kbps, there is no sensible reason to use MP3. Lossless is trivially larger here, and much less lossy.

Freeformat is a non-standard encoding for MP3. There is no reason that I've read to use it. At all. Other encodings are more space-efficient, and other encodings have freeformat capability as part of the specification.

The only reason to use MP3 is for backwards compatibility, and freeformat breaks that.

I just compared 320k and 640k from an LPCM 16-bit DvD audio rip and the sound difference is not great at all. Not worth the roughly double size. besides, the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10 about 1/2 the size and it will sound better.

I just compared 320k and 640k from an LPCM 16-bit DvD audio rip and the sound difference is not great at all. Not worth the roughly double size. besides, the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10 about 1/2 the size and it will sound better.

JWolf:

can you please point me to an explanation of the following:

the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10

Is "-q 10" a setting thats similar to selecting a bitrate with standard MP3 files?

I just compared 320k and 640k from an LPCM 16-bit DvD audio rip and the sound difference is not great at all. Not worth the roughly double size. besides, the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10 about 1/2 the size and it will sound better.

You hear sound difference between 320kbit and 640kbit mp3? Care to ABX it?

If it is compliant, does that mean it is in theory possible to get higher quality with freeformat VBR because there is no longer a restriction on the bitrate of each frame? And as a bonus a good multithreaded encoding speedup because the reservoir is no longer needed, or am i talking nonsense now?

If it is compliant, does that mean it is in theory possible to get higher quality with freeformat VBR because there is no longer a restriction on the bitrate of each frame? And as a bonus a good multithreaded encoding speedup because the reservoir is no longer needed, or am i talking nonsense now?

AFAIK listening tests by people here on high bitrate mp3 suggest that if the encoder produces artifacts at 320, it's going to have artifacts at any bitrate. There are deficiencies in the technology of mp3 that are not solved by throwing more bits at them. Freeformat at > 320 is pointless because not only does it break compatibility, but it doesn't actually get you any useful return.

I just compared 320k and 640k from an LPCM 16-bit DVD audio rip and the sound difference is not great at all. Not worth the roughly double size. besides, the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10 about 1/2 the size and it will sound better.

You hear sound difference between 320kbit and 640kbit mp3? Care to ABX it?

I forgot to mention I did blind testing. I put Winamp on shuffle and repeat and minimized it so I would not know which track it's playing. I also have my taskbar hidden so I cannot see that and know which was which. I used Phish Live in Brooklyn and the track Sample in a Jar as the test track. I was able to pick out the 640k track about 75% (rough estimate) of the time. As I see it, going to 640K is not worth the extra in file size. The format just doesn't handle it well. Unless of course, the MAD plugin is at fault.

I just compared 320k and 640k from an LPCM 16-bit DvD audio rip and the sound difference is not great at all. Not worth the roughly double size. besides, the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10 about 1/2 the size and it will sound better.

JWolf:

can you please point me to an explanation of the following:

the latest oggenc will encode at -q 10

Is "-q 10" a setting thats similar to selecting a bitrate with standard MP3 files?

For now, quality 0 is roughly equivalent to 64kbps average, 5 is roughly 160kbps, and 10 gives about 400kbps. Most people seeking very-near-CD-quality audio encode at a quality of 5 or, for lossless stereo coupling, 6. The default setting is quality 3, which at approximately 110kbps gives a smaller filesize and significantly better fidelity than .mp3 compression at 128kbps.

I forgot to mention I did blind testing. I put Winamp on shuffle and repeat and minimized it so I would not know which track it's playing. I also have my taskbar hidden so I cannot see that and know which was which. I used Phish Live in Brooklyn and the track Sample in a Jar as the test track. I was able to pick out the 640k track about 75% (rough estimate) of the time. As I see it, going to 640K is not worth the extra in file size. The format just doesn't handle it well. Unless of course, the MAD plugin is at fault.

That's not ABXing, and there is no proof except your word. Please, do ABX testing, I think there is howto on wiki, also you can use Foobar2000, it has ABX capabilities.I find it very hard to believe you could differentiate original from 320kbit, not to mention 640 vs 320.

I forgot to mention I did blind testing. I put Winamp on shuffle and repeat and minimized it so I would not know which track it's playing. I also have my taskbar hidden so I cannot see that and know which was which. I used Phish Live in Brooklyn and the track Sample in a Jar as the test track. I was able to pick out the 640k track about 75% (rough estimate) of the time. As I see it, going to 640K is not worth the extra in file size. The format just doesn't handle it well. Unless of course, the MAD plugin is at fault.

That's not ABXing, and there is no proof except your word. Please, do ABX testing, I think there is howto on wiki, also you can use Foobar2000, it has ABX capabilities.I find it very hard to believe you could differentiate original from 320kbit, not to mention 640 vs 320.

I can't use foobar. It won't handle 640k mp3.

Please tell me how to do a proper ABX using Winamp which is all I have that will play a 640k mp3 file.

As you can see, I got it wrong enough with this one track to show that the difference between 640k mp3 and 320k mp3 is not that great to really hear a difference that I can easily pick out one or the other. I compressed both tracks from the lossless FLAC to 320k and 640k mp3 using LAME 3.97. I then used LAME to decompress both tracks back into wav so foobar2000 could play them both for the ABXing. I'll try other types of music to see how it come out. But on this one track, it was conclusive that I was unable to identify the differences often enough to make 640k worth while.

Firon's right. Not many people are going to claim that 320kbps does not offer transparency for average material. Anyway, while I don't see much use in that test, I agree with you that such a bitrate for MP3 is overkill; in fact, I'd say that it is so for any lossy format and recommend lossless instead.

Firon's right. Not many people are going to claim that 320kbps does not offer transparency for average material. Anyway, while I don't see much use in that test, I agree with you that such a bitrate for MP3 is overkill; in fact, I'd say that it is so for any lossy format and recommend lossless instead.

The use I see is that it proves that 640k mp3 is not going to be a viable format as a standard. The filesize is way too larger for that you get vs 320k. The differences are not that great as to be able to 100% say oh yes, 640k is better.