gravy

considering the overwhelming response to the last 2 "rumors" of APS-C cameras, it's apparent that APC near future is something that you'd have to be crazy to abandon if you want to sell cameras in large quantities and make a healthy profit -IMHO. the 7D never really appealled to me because I bought a 50D and was very happy with it for my shooting skill and requirements. but of course some want the high end APS-C and canon seems to be telling people to buy "cheap" full frame. I don't think this jedi mind trick is working.I have my APS-C so I went full frame with the 5DIII and it is a much different experience in shooting, it's keeping me challenged which is a good thing but I still feel more confortable with the size and responsiveness of my 50D. all the benefits of APS-C can't be ignored and FF is not a replacement, it is different, better for some things not as good for others - not a one size fits all. I think canon is pushing this FF for all line so they can sell the 6D and 5DIII for awhile before offering customers what might be a better choice for them. by the way, my opinion is that they should replace the 7D with a better (than 7D) 70D and offer a APS-H 7dII but chances of that are low. it won't be good for canon to keep a high end APS-C out of there line up any longer as the FF crowd is probably becoming depleted pretty fast and the high end APS-C crowd is getting very agitated.

I'm not even disagreeing that the 7DII may be worth more than the 6D (We will have to wait and see) but do you really think they would price it so much more than the 6D? From a marketing standpoint, wouldn't be much better to have the 6D and 7D at the same price point? In the 7D, you would have a better build quality and an absurdly fast fire rate. With the 6D, you would have better image quality and low light capabilities. I think these two cameras would be better of around the $1800 range (both of them), especially if the 70D is coming in around $1000.

My gut says $2K, but that's me building a camera around what the market will expect this thing to be.

But what if Canon wants to inject a strong sense of pro / 'top of the line APS-C' to the 7D2 to:

Maintain its place as the best wildlife/sports shooting company?

Tent up the price of all the APS-C segments below it?

Keep up demand for pricier EF-S glass like the 17-55 or 10-22?

i.e. What if it's 30 MP+, 12 fps, strong high ISO performance with a truly pro build? As improbable as it would be, such a camera would be worth more than $2K to most of us, I'd think.

The new designed sensor in the 7D replacement is a big step up in image quality (low and high ISO range). The prototypes in the field also have a new processor in it.

I hope so. It's been a long time since they've done anything for low ISO and this would signal that they are back in the game and that the 5D4 and whatnot will have first rate sensors for low ISO again and that with the nicer Canon lenses and UI we can all forget about Nikon again and not need to make the switch.

It would also explain the long delay to the 7D2 and the high MP FF. They realize that their old process sensors have had their day and it's best to wait for the new process sensors at this point rather than have a 7D2 or 3D or whatnot need to be replaced in like just 12 months or less and the firestorm that would create.

Once-upon-a-time all PJs used Graflex cameras http://graflex.org/ Now PJs don't use Medium Format or 4x5 and Graflex is gone http://graflex.org/ Does the same fate await Canon, or do they wise-up and change their business model to fit the changing times

By the time the 70D and 7D2 arrive there's a good chance I'll have died of old-age

No it isn't. Since when does the size of the sensor dictate its "pro" status? If I use a point and shoot in paid, professional work, it becomes a pro camera. Also, the 7D is far more "pro" in any sense of the word, than a 6D. Does the full frame of the 6D make it pro?

No it isn't. Since when does the size of the sensor dictate its "pro" status? If I use a point and shoot in paid, professional work, it becomes a pro camera. Also, the 7D is far more "pro" in any sense of the word, than a 6D. Does the full frame of the 6D make it pro?

+5 if I could.

Agree agree agree. The current 7D is a feature-laden camera for non-beginners. I see the 6D as a fairly nerfed camera that happens to be FF. I still contend -- though I have no data to back it up -- that a higher percentage of 7D owners are more serious shooters (shoot more, know their cameras' limits, features, etc.) than 6D owners.

The idea that the sensor size singlehandedly differentiates between novice and expert is absurd.

Agree agree agree. The current 7D is a feature-laden camera for non-beginners. I see the 6D as a fairly nerfed camera that happens to be FF. I still contend -- though I have no data to back it up -- that a higher percentage of 7D owners are more serious shooters (shoot more, know their cameras' limits, features, etc.) than 6D owners.

The idea that the sensor size singlehandedly differentiates between novice and expert is absurd.

- A

I don't know whether such a sweeping statement holds true. If this were so the 5D2 (near identical to the 6D) would not have been a success.

Anyhow, I see where you are coming from - most people who have bought the 6D are hobbyists who have upgraded from APS-C cameras to go FF. The "pros" on the other hand have gone for the 5D3.

Agree agree agree. The current 7D is a feature-laden camera for non-beginners. I see the 6D as a fairly nerfed camera that happens to be FF. I still contend -- though I have no data to back it up -- that a higher percentage of 7D owners are more serious shooters (shoot more, know their cameras' limits, features, etc.) than 6D owners.

The idea that the sensor size singlehandedly differentiates between novice and expert is absurd.

- A

I don't know whether such a sweeping statement holds true. If this were so the 5D2 (near identical to the 6D) would not have been a success.

Anyhow, I see where you are coming from - most people who have bought the 6D are hobbyists who have upgraded from APS-C cameras to go FF. The "pros" on the other hand have gone for the 5D3.

I use a 7D-owning friend of mine as an example. Like myself, he's an enthusiast. He possibly has the money to go FF, but his great hobby is shooting car races. He typically has his Sigma 150-500 on it. Reach is paramount for him. He knows his 7D in and out, and loves most everything about it.

When I ask him about the 6D, it's a very simple conversation for him. The AF and burst rate for the 6D underweight compared to his 7D, and his go-to glass would no longer have the reach he'd need. So it's a not a $2k 'upgrade' to him, it's a $3-6k investment to get the 6D and new glass... and possibly miss shots due to AF or limited burst rate. Yes -- his keepers might be a bit better on FF, but he'd fundamentally have less keepers, right?

For him, the 6D is never going to happen.

In contrast, I have another friend who over 10+ years ago enjoyed shooting 35mm film cameras. When overwhelmed by all the tech in DSLRs today, he said:

Focal length multipliers are annoying. I understand and think in FF terms.

I'm not calling the 7D friend a better photographer than the D600 guy, but the 7D guy knows his camera cold -- everything about it. The D600 friend is taking really nice snaps of his kids.

These two people are not the market, but I see in each of my friends exactly who Canon/Nikon are aiming for. I really do see the 7D camp as serious shooters with modest budget, and I see the 6D camp somewhat the opposite.

I'm sure there are family scrapbooking folks with 7Ds and serious pros with 6Ds, but I would argue that they are the exception to the rule.

crasher8

Everything said about my oxymoron comment is contrary to the 1D series being Canon's only pro camera bodies. Maybe I should have clarified and said "From a marketing viewpoint…"

Yeah I know you can sell your P$S prints and be a pro, I have a Holga. There are always the great Internet Explainers who NEED to come along and well, explain things. Usually these guys come across as having no sense of humor. Well, in this case there was no usually.

Logged

Black berry

I'm not too fussed about the 70D.For me the 7D11 should excel and be a significant improvement over the 7D in some key areas: NOISE, image quality and AF. It should also remain a 1.6 crop.I don't personally give a hoot about WIFI, GPS or video, I just want an absolute killer that does the basics in class leading style!