Actually, the vocals were by far the best thing on that record. 'They Call Me Evil' is a good song, too (with more than a nod to that old Loudness song, Wok 'n' Woll Crazy Nights). Other than that it just isn't very interesting.

The Curse is incredibly good, I reckon it can hold its own against Battle Cry.

_________________'Sometimes you have to be a bigot in order to beat bigger bigots' - G. Marenghi.

Actually, the vocals were by far the best thing on that record. 'They Call Me Evil' is a good song, too (with more than a nod to that old Loudness song, Wok 'n' Woll Crazy Nights). Other than that it just isn't very interesting.

Bah, there's a reason I don't listen to you when it comes to any post-80s material. Honestly I actually prefer Ballistic to Jag Panzer.

ANationalAcrobat wrote:

The Curse is incredibly good, I reckon it can hold its own against Battle Cry.

In terms of songwriting, I'd agree, but the production just slightly smooths out and dampens the rhythm guitar in a way that bugs me. It's not a huge deal, but the guitar sound just lacks the teeth that it had in Battle Cry. For me that puts the debut just slightly above The Curse, though I definitely appreciate the latter's much more ambitious songwriting.

_________________

MorbidBlood wrote:

So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

So are you guys kind of saying by default that you prefer The Curse to Warning of Danger? I've listened to The Curse the least by far of all the first three so I don't really feel comfortable weighing in, I'm just curious.

Their debut is still untouchable to me in its roughshod barbarianisms. God damn it man, so good.

Hah, well I am, at least. I wouldn't say Warning of Danger is at all bad, but it does have some weaker spots on it. A fair number of the songs are merely quite good, rather than balls-out amazing like on the other albums. However, ironically enough I consider "Hell's Gates" to be one of the best individual songs Omen ever did.

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MorbidBlood wrote:

So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

In terms of songwriting, I'd agree, but the production just slightly smooths out and dampens the rhythm guitar in a way that bugs me. It's not a huge deal, but the guitar sound just lacks the teeth that it had in Battle Cry. For me that puts the debut just slightly above The Curse, though I definitely appreciate the latter's much more ambitious songwriting.

I actually dig the production a lot, I think it's more polished but it suits the slightly more technical writing, anyway. It's certainly not as wild and raw as Battle Cry, but that sound wouldn't suit The Curse. The bass and drums are brought forward and really given time to shine, which is certainly cool. Regarding Warning of Danger: I love that record, but it's just not as consistent as the two surrounding it. It's still obviously ESSENTIAL (spelt out in big capital letters) given that the highlights on there are so fucking incredible (especially 'Hell's Gate', which is a completely unique song as far as I'm concerned).

_________________'Sometimes you have to be a bigot in order to beat bigger bigots' - G. Marenghi.

Omen is pretty much the best band ever. One of my top 5 heavy metal bands.

Battle Cry is solid throughout, The Curse has a lot of good material with only a tiny bit of filler (and the good makes up for the so-so x10). Warning of Danger definitely has the most filler, but it's still an impressive album. MARCH ON METAL WARRIORRRRRRR

It's a shame the later albums don't measure up.

_________________and we are bornfrom the same womband hewn fromthe same stone - Primordial, "Heathen Tribes"

@Nahsil: That's basically what I was getting at. Like, it just randomly sunk in... Omen is one of the best bands ever and probably top 5 material for me as well.

I can never decide between their trilogy, it's the best trilogy of albums out there bar none. Guess I like Warning a bit more than you folks. Some of the songs and the beginning just completely kick my ass. And I -completely- agree with ANA about the production on Curse, I love it, because Jody Henry's bass work on those first three albums is absolutely amazing, and album by album the production pushes the bass more up front. So it's right there in your face on Curse. I completely love its sound and on the other hand, I completely love Battle Cry's sound as well. A bit more distant, barbaric, etc sounding and it just fits the tone so perfectly.

I just love the production on all three of them and I'm not sure if I have a preference, they all sound perfect the way they turned out.

And there can only be one J.D. Kimball, simply one of the best of all time.

Back in the day you guys probably remember I used to talk up early Liege Lord more and say that's more my blue collar USPM sound... that still probably rings true to today, but Omen is just 200% more consistent and everything. They've stood the test of time better for sure. I used to like the more mystical sounding USPM, but kind of like the more dungeon-esque stuff nowadays. Like... maybe Fates Warning (mystical) vs Cauldron Born (dungeon) is a good comparison. I kind of like that barbaric, crunchier bite more than I used to awhile back.

Warning of Danger is an amazing album, but I still have to say Battle Cry is the best one. It just has the most memorable riffs and songs overall.

Anyone heard the new Paragon yet? I always rotate between the Big 3 of modern Germanic power/heavy metal (Paragon, Iron Savior and Grave Digger, as all three share similar traits and even production jobs sometimes), but really they're all very cool and write great metal. The new Paragon is totally energized, face-ripping stuff. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj-5h4RbGLE I mean c'mon. You gotta admit this is fucking great.

Warning of Danger is an amazing album, but I still have to say Battle Cry is the best one. It just has the most memorable riffs and songs overall.

Anyone heard the new Paragon yet? I always rotate between the Big 3 of modern Germanic power/heavy metal (Paragon, Iron Savior and Grave Digger, as all three share similar traits and even production jobs sometimes), but really they're all very cool and write great metal. The new Paragon is totally energized, face-ripping stuff. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj-5h4RbGLE I mean c'mon. You gotta admit this is fucking great.

Eh, the only one I like out of those three is Iron Savior, and even then they're not exactly stellar. A few cool tunes, but not the most consistent band. Grave Digger's problem is Chris Boltendahl, and Paragon's problem is...well, the songwriting. The song is a pretty good example of Paragon's mediocrity. Pretty cool vocals, though, I admit.

The songwriting is good. They write catchy as hell tunes that remain exciting and energized, and I think the only reason one would dislike 'em is if you just didn't like the modern production or that sort of modern Germanic power metal style that I know a few people don't like. But the newest album strays from the cliches of that style and instead just gives us a flat out killer, epic heavy metal album.

I'm actually pretty keen to explore Grave Digger's discog further. Years and years ago got Witch hunter and Heavy Metal Breakdown - the early stuff. I think a while after that i got one of their early 90s ones, but barely listened to it. I really have no idea what their 90s and 2000s stuff for the most part. I've heard a lot of good things, but it probably won't resonate with me if it's too modern/Europower/overproduced, like Blind Guardian or something.

_________________Razorwyre:promo track track from 'Another Dimension' LP"The best speed metal album of the year"

Last edited by DeathRiderDoom on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I remember finding a "Blind Guardian/Iced Earth" song on Kazaa called "Excalibur." I downloaded it and was ultra impressed by the badass riffing. So yeah, Excalibur was my first exposure to GD. They've definitely got some good material, but I can't say I'm as big a fan of Chris as other German singers like Hansi (in the good old days) and Peavy (although not huge on his early sound). And Rolf of course.

_________________and we are bornfrom the same womband hewn fromthe same stone - Primordial, "Heathen Tribes"

I remember finding a "Blind Guardian/Iced Earth" song on Kazaa called "Excalibur." I downloaded it and was ultra impressed by the badass riffing. So yeah, Excalibur was my first exposure to GD. They've definitely got some good material, but I can't say I'm as big a fan of Chris as other German singers like Hansi (in the good old days) and Peavy (although not huge on his early sound). And Rolf of course.

That's the thing for me too I guess. Chris is awesome and I couldn't imagine Grave Digger any other way, but there are so many other German singers that sound so similar. Maybe it's pure fanboyism, but I think Rolf is the only one that gets away with it a bit because he fits the pirate image and all so well, just seems to have a bit more character and uniqueness than the rest of the pack to me.

Also holy shit Shadowmaker has been out since April? Completely forgot about it until now... I'm not as active as before, but I still don't think I've ever seen anyone around here talk about it. Reviews don't make it look too pretty either, lol. Oh well, I wasn't expecting anything, and regardless it doesn't change the fact that the first dozen or so albums are still gold anyways.

...are you saying you haven't heard Shadowmaker at all yet? Don't listen to the reviews, it's actually really really good, it just harkens more back to their earlier stuff so I think a lot of the fans of their more recent material were kind of confused. Check this song out and decide for yourself.

_________________

MorbidBlood wrote:

So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 amPosts: 440Location: United States of America

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:18 am

Empyreal, I have no idea how to react to you right now. First, you link that awful Running Wild song (and I'm not a fan of 80's hard rock really...) which shattered my peaceful illusion that Running Wild had just decided to call it quits. I've never been the biggest running wild fan, but I at least respect them a ton even though I never got hugely into them. Treasure Island, conquistadors and Little big horn are the only songs I regularly listen to by them. Maybe they need another try from me. The last time I tried getting them to click was a few years ago.

However, you did expose me to paragon. I love Iron Savior, I love Grave Digger, I love rebellion, I love stormwarrior. It's absurd I haven't looked into them earlier. Based on this, do you think I should examine Rage as well?

Paragon's Law of the Blade is a favorite power/heavy/speed album of mine. It's got some beastly riffs and choruses. Nothing else that I've heard has measured up but I need to hear the new one, it seems to have potential.

_________________and we are bornfrom the same womband hewn fromthe same stone - Primordial, "Heathen Tribes"

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 2:59 amPosts: 440Location: United States of America

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:54 am

Nahsil wrote:

Do you mean failsafe?

At any rate, yes, check out Rage.

Paragon's Law of the Blade is a favorite power/heavy/speed album of mine. It's got some beastly riffs and choruses. Nothing else that I've heard has measured up but I need to hear the new one, it seems to have potential.

I'm actually pretty keen to explore Grave Digger's discog further. Years and years ago got Witch hunter and Heavy Metal Breakdown - the early stuff. I think a while after that i got one of their early 90s ones, but barely listened to it. I really have no idea what their 90s and 2000s stuff for the most part. I've heard a lot of good things, but it probably won't resonate with me if it's too modern/Europower/overproduced, like Blind Guardian or something.

I decided on doing this not long ago, and I gotta say, I was really impressed with a lot of their work. THeir 90's and 2000's stuff doesn't sound like Blind Guardian. There's a lot more focusing on the riffs, and let me tell ya, some of those riffs are just simply amazing. You should definitely check out "Rheingold". That is a killer album from start to finish, and is one of Grave Digger's darkest offerings ever. The three newest ones are great as well.

Since you guys are discussing German heavy metal, this seems like an appropriate time to bring up Axel Rudi Pell. What are everyone's favourite albums of his? I just got The Masquerade Ball last night and it amazes me how consistent this guy is. I've his Nasty Reputation, Eternal Prisoner, Kings and Queens, and The Masquerade Ball, and I would say Eternal Prisoner is probably my favourite. All of the songs on that one manage to be catchier than on his other records, but they're all pretty great.

I think I heard some of his stuff once, but I don't know. I just got the impression that it wasn't really worth digging deeper into the discography. But I might be wrong though, and do tell me if I am.

Love Axel Rudi Pell. Just fun, honest heavy metal. He writes a lot of epic length tracks, but it never comes off as pompous. Most of his albums are pretty similar, but they're just done so well I don't care. Oceans of Time is my favourite.

...are you saying you haven't heard Shadowmaker at all yet? Don't listen to the reviews, it's actually really really good, it just harkens more back to their earlier stuff so I think a lot of the fans of their more recent material were kind of confused. Check this song out and decide for yourself.

I don't...I just...am I dreaming?

Nahsil, yeah, the new Paragon is more epic and melodic and has more of their own sound and less of the Piet Sielck-y sheen that was present on Law of the Blade. It's definitely a great album, though not as instantly hooky as the old stuff. Really cool shit.

ARP is good...Oceans of Time and Mystica are great and their other albums are at least solid. Not sure I really care to pick up further new albums though, because they really are just all the same, only not as good as the two aforementioned albums.

Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 2:16 pmPosts: 7821Location: The Land Down Under (no, not THAT one)

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:53 am

Axel Rudi Pell is cool. Guy actually knows how to compose a song, unlike most virtuoso guitar players that have bands named after them (no need to mention any names). The riffs are big, rocking, and the style reminds me sometimes of a modern day Rainbow. Johnny Gioeli is also fantastic, and his mighty pipes coupled with Axel's guitar skills make one hell of a team. Now, if I had to mention the best ARP record, I'd say that such a title belongs to Mystica. First ARP album I heard, and still the greatest of his works for me.

_________________

Napero wrote:

(...) Bolt Thrower is to the soul what coffee is to the earthly shell.

...are you saying you haven't heard Shadowmaker at all yet? Don't listen to the reviews, it's actually really really good, it just harkens more back to their earlier stuff so I think a lot of the fans of their more recent material were kind of confused. Check this song out and decide for yourself.

...are you saying you haven't heard Shadowmaker at all yet? Don't listen to the reviews, it's actually really really good, it just harkens more back to their earlier stuff so I think a lot of the fans of their more recent material were kind of confused. Check this song out and decide for yourself.

I don't...I just...am I dreaming?

_________________

MorbidBlood wrote:

So the winner is Destruction and Infernal Overkill is the motherfucking skullcrushing poserkilling satan-worshiping 666 FUCK YOU greatest german thrash record.

I decided to listen to it on the way home from a party today, and I will say, it's not all bad. It's definitely not a solid RW release, but it's not totally worthless either. However, I did get tired after a while, so I decided to go with Death or Glory for the rest of the ride, and I absolutely do not regret that!