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Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Dear All,

I've just returned from driving to and fro Florida, and had some thoughts on the WOOD Regatta. Now that the economy SEEMS to be improving, I'd like to start planning for spring on 2011. But of course I defer to you.

And I'd like it to take place in the Chesapeake. One kind reader has suggested Rock Hill, with which I am unfamiliar. I am making inquiries. And I did love St. Michaels, when we produced the WoodenBoat Show there. What do you think?

And I'd like to introduce a new set of boats, under a sort of box rule. For 2011, I'll call this the "evens" -- max LOAs (including deployed pole, boomkin, etc.) of 12', 14', 16', 18'.. and maybe 20'?

Plus, separately, the standard WOOD Regatta classes.

I prefer very few design rules. Maybe only the following?:

1. For each max LOA class, max beam -- including wings or racks -- of 40% LOA.
2. And a percentage of max LOA for a measurement from the masthead to bottom of lowered centerboard/daggerboard/leaboard, such percentage yet to be determined.
3. No limits on weight or crew.
4. Wood construction only. Some small % of exotics (Kevlar, carbon) to be determined.
5. No limit on available sail area. Nylon fabric only.

My questions: Please have at the above, but PLEASE let's not make it too complex.

The bigger question: Will you designers/builders have enough time to design, build, modify, and fine-tune your "evens" for a spring 2001 event? (The "odds" will be included in the next WOOD Regatta after 2011.)

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

#5... Nylon fabric only??

“Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basement of time. On some of those rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs."

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Interesting!

I suspect you'll have to define things a bit more. What are the "standard Wood Regatta classes"? And what will your new classes be for? In other words, if someone builds a boat outside the Wood Regatta class (whatever that is), I assume it needs to meet your new class requirements in order to participate?

2. Why is this needed? I understand why you want #1 to keep it mono-hull, but not sure on #2.

4. Define "wood". Is doorskin with thick fiberglass on both sides "wood"? You may need to list approved thickness/weight of various materials, as many modern boats are composites with wood, epoxy, fillers, and glass/other fabrics on the hull. Otherwise something with a total thickness of 1/2" balsa core and 1/4" of glass and gelcoat qualifies as "wood"....

5. I think you mean "dacron", right? And you may not be able to avoid the polytarp material, as it is getting very common on home-built boats.

"The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Originally Posted by Carl Cramer

Wood means if you remove the non-wood components, the structure remains intact and viable.

Pull all the screws and glues from any boat and it won't remain intact for long...(grin) I take it you mean remove epoxy, fiberglass/other cloth, paint and gelcoat from the outside (and inside?) of the wood hull??

So in other words, my fir over oak dory skiff qualifies as a wood boat because you can remove the paint and it will still float. But my Cosine Wherry won't, as the glass holds the cedar strips in place from both sides.

"The enemies of reason have a certain blind look."
Doctor Jacquin to Lieutenant D'Hubert, in Ridley Scott's first major film _The Duellists_.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Originally Posted by Thorne

Pull all the screws and glues from any boat and it won't remain intact for long...(grin) I take it you mean remove epoxy, fiberglass/other cloth, paint and gelcoat from the outside (and inside?) of the wood hull??

So in other words, my fir over oak dory skiff qualifies as a wood boat because you can remove the paint and it will still float. But my Cosine Wherry won't, as the glass holds the cedar strips in place from both sides.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Originally Posted by thorne

interesting!

I suspect you'll have to define things a bit more. What are the "standard wood regatta classes"? And what will your new classes be for? In other words, if someone builds a boat outside the wood regatta class (whatever that is), i assume it needs to meet your new class requirements in order to participate?

2. Why is this needed? I understand why you want #1 to keep it mono-hull, but not sure on #2.

I agree with this -- if we start a separate multihull class, w/o beam limitations.

4. Define "wood". Is doorskin with thick fiberglass on both sides "wood"? You may need to list approved thickness/weight of various materials, as many modern boats are composites with wood, epoxy, fillers, and glass/other fabrics on the hull. Otherwise something with a total thickness of 1/2" balsa core and 1/4" of glass and gelcoat qualifies as "wood"....

5. I think you mean "dacron", right? And you may not be able to avoid the polytarp material, as it is getting very common on home-built boats.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Carl,

Rock Hall is nice but shore and launching facilities may be a problem. St Michaels would require cooperation of the Museum for facilities and launching is limited. The Rock Hall Yacht Club is across the peninsula and the sailing area would be the Chester River which is plenty big. The club is very friendly and has lots of open space. Perhaps they would be receptive to hosting.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Thanks, Tom. Yes, Rock Hall Yacht Club it is. They just need to confirm dates for May 20-22 2011. It seems a perfect place for our needs.

Which of your boats will you be bringing?

My best wishes to you, Carl

Hi Carl,

My experience in attending several National regattas held at the RHYC has been very positive. Great venue, facilities and great people to work with. There is a lot of shore parking and launching area but launching for large and heavy boats is limited. I would bring either Lapwing or a Windmill or perhaps something else.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Originally Posted by Tom Lathrop

Hi Carl,

My experience in attending several National regattas held at the RHYC has been very positive. Great venue, facilities and great people to work with. There is a lot of shore parking and launching area but launching for large and heavy boats is limited. I would bring either Lapwing or a Windmill or perhaps something else.

All the best, Tom Lathrop

Thanks so much, Tom. I gather there are some very good Windmill sailors in that yacht club. You'll be in your element!

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

A brilliant choice, Carl. Count me in with a Wayfarer and I will try to get a few other Wayfarer buddies to join us. Rock Hall Yacht Club has two electric hoists for heavier boats (e.g. Lightning, etc.) and an ample sandy beach for smaller boats.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Thanks, Frank. I know about the hoists -- Would they be able to handle something like a 210 (3,000 lbs) or is there somewhere nearby where we could launch and rig boats of that size?

Here are my updated rules. Please, all, comment and hack away:

Revised, 3/26. Version 4.2

The WOOD (Wooden Open & One-Design) Regatta consists of two major components:

1.One-design, which are historical classes such as Blue Jays, Windmills, Lightnings, etc. They all race under Portsmouth Yardstick ratings, and overall prizes are given. If a class has 10 or more entries, it will be given its own start. Other starts will be determined by Portsmouth Yardstick number. Owners must declare if their boats have been altered from one-design requirements.

If a wooden boat is NOT a one-design, it is still possible to participate in the one-design component. A provisional Portsmouth Yardstick rating will be issued.

Max LOA is 30 feet.

2.The “Open” portion is for skippers who wish to race under a development or box rule. Class one-designs may elect to join one of these group as well. These are ALL sailboats. In general, this category is for new designs and builds, but by no means exclusively.

Max LOA 10' 12' 14' 16' 18' 20'

Max BEAM 4' 5' 6' 6'6” 7'6” 8'6”

Masthead-bottom of
centerboard/keel 17'6” 21' 24' 27'6” 31' 34'

Max # of crew 1 1 2 3 3 3

RULES

1.All hulls and decks must be wooden.

2.Spars may be wood or aluminum.

3.Sails must be dacron or polywrap; spinnakers may be nylon. No other materials permitted.

4.Max LOA measures from the aftermost point of the transom to the foremost point of the bow, including spinnaker pole, extended. Rudders will not be measured unless they are abnormally large (judges' discretion).

5.Max Beam includes wings or racks (racks may be wood, aluminum, or stainless steel). Trapezes are permitted and are not measured as such. If a boat is a multihull, no Max Beam shall be enforced. But multis will race in a separate class, if applicable.

6.Masthead-bottom of centerboard/daggerboard/leeboard/keel is measured from the top of the mast to the lowest point on an extended foil. For this first year at least, hydrofoils are not permitted. Gaff rigs may have spars that extend above the masthead, without penalty, unless judged “too extreme.” This is judges' discretion. This may change in the future. The length of the gaff should not exceed 50% of LOA, and may not be flown parallel to the mast.

7. Max # of crew is for guidance only. Fewer crew may be used (for boats 14' and longer). There are no crew weight restrictions.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

So, I guess the carbon mast, boom, spin pole, rudder and daggerboard would have to be discarded and the sails... Never mind, have fun in your project. The Swift Solo is out of the running.

Would putting sails on the Nutshell Pram qualify?

Yes, of course to the Nutshell. In fact, we held the first World Nutshell Championships in Newport, RI many, many years ago. It was an absolute blast with a great number of boats. I'm hoping many will come to MD.... Shellbacks too, and you name it....

You can race the Swift Solo with an asterisk, or build spars, foils, etc. in wood, with dacron sails.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

I see a problem developing. If we think of the WOOD regatta as a special opportunity to see how different boats perform, maybe it would be wise to err on the side of inclusiveness. Suppose a Paper Jet, with little or no carbon content and hence lower cost and easier construction, will do almost everything a high carbon content Swift Solo does, then that world be informative to a potential builder/buyer and might influence whether a new class is successfully established. My guess is that in a small boat ( say, 12 - 14 ft.), structural and design cleverness can overcome most advantages of carbon content, and it would be nice to show that in the real world.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

Originally Posted by frank pedersen

I see a problem developing. If we think of the WOOD regatta as a special opportunity to see how different boats perform, maybe it would be wise to err on the side of inclusiveness. Suppose a Paper Jet, with little or no carbon content and hence lower cost and easier construction, will do almost everything a high carbon content Swift Solo does, then that world be informative to a potential builder/buyer and might influence whether a new class is successfully established. My guess is that in a small boat ( say, 12 - 14 ft.), structural and design cleverness can overcome most advantages of carbon content, and it would be nice to show that in the real world.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

The length of the gaff should not exceed 50% of LOA, and may not be flown parallel to the mast.

Some clarification to your edit, please! Do you consider the top spar (the yard) of a lateen or lug rig to be a gaff? How about a spritsail sprit? These all accomplish the same thing as a gaff (ergo my question) . . . and they are all commonly longer than 50% LOA (on a small boat). How about gunter rigs? Their "gaffs" are flown parallel to the mast.
One type of lateen rig - note the rather long spars:

And, are crew limits necessary for 10' and 12' boats? 2 people in them is more likely to be a hindrance than a benefit, unless the wind is absolutely honking.
I'm just saying that some folks might want to bring their kids/wife/pal along . . . .

More nitpicking: Expensive stainless steel allowed for hiking racks, but galvanized (et al.) steel isn't. Galvanized fence posts are pretty common - and a thrifty builder might have that as his only option.
For that matter, I once, in desperation, used a mast made of two sections of thin walled steel fencing posts. Heavier than aluminum, obviously, but it worked!
My point here is that perhaps it's OK for people to penalize themselves with lesser materials (or excessive crew weight) if that will encourage them to enter a boat.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

I think the simplest (best ?) solution for sail height spars, mast etc is a measurement from head of sail to centerboard, regardless of weather the sail head is at a mast or some other form of spar.
I think sail area combined with a max spar height is probably good method, controlling the height and complexity of rigs and factoring in sail area in setting classes.

The rules should discourage poor quality construction... galvanized hiking racks and steel masts fall in this catagorey of "to be avoided" especially when a wood subistutes are cheaper lighter simpler and stronger.

for those unfamiliar with Chas Cohill mentioned in previous post see Kunhart "Small Yachts" plate VIII

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

I agree with you, Daniel, about "head of the sail" height being the simplest practical limitation. Great idea.
And about encouraging wooden construction.

I, personally, am not keen on sail area limitations, at all. Put on as much as the crew desires, and that the crew and boat can handle (within the rig height restriction). My take is that this is a self-limiting factor - too much just won't work - so why stifle innovation with somebody else's notion of what it "should be?" 74 sq ft of sail, on a 7'9" pram dinghy, is not what conventional thinking dictated, but Phil Bolger proved that conventional thinking was dead wrong (see his Fieldmouse dinghy). Now, lots of PDR's fly even more!

And, for me, these are prototype boat designs - if they work they can later be refined. Personally, I want to see my ideas come to fruition, and I'll build as well as I can, but I also don't want to sink a huge amount of time and money into an experimental project that might easily turn out to be a dud (or that I'll race only one time!).

In that vein: Though certainly not the best choice, there's nothing about galvanized steel that makes it inherently poor quality for a hiking rack - or whatever - though certainly galvanized hiking racks could be built poorly. So too could aluminum or stainless steel ones, and they'd cost a lot more.
Like you say, quality construction should be encouraged. In any medium is my addendum.

Daniel - your mini-sandbagger looks like a good candidate for one of the box rules!
I'd like to see a Chas Cohill, too . . . .

Dave Gentry

Oooh, and, while I absolutely discourage steel masts, few things could have been cheaper (free, for me) or simpler (slot the two sections together and voila!, instant mast), and it was plenty strong.

Re: Something New, & the WOOD Regatta

OK, so I'll redo for max sail height rather than mast height. Localized carbon OK, but not solid. No spars of strictly carbon, for example.

I expect most of the new-builds will be wood-epoxy and some stitch-and-glue. I'll make that more emphatic.

Yes, there will be prototyping, but this is how we all learn.

So, here's a revised version. Crew minimums, etc. have been eliminated or modified:

WOOD Regatta 2011 Rules 3/28/10 – Version 5.0

The WOOD (Wooden Open & One-Design) Regatta consists of two major components:

1.One-design, which are historical classes such as Blue Jays, Windmills, Lightnings, etc. They all race under Portsmouth Yardstick ratings, and overall prizes are given. If a class has 10 or more entries, it will be given its own start. Other starts will be determined by Portsmouth Yardstick number. Owners must declare if their boats have been altered from one-design requirements.

If a wooden boat is NOT a one-design, it is still possible to participate in the one-design component. A provisional Portsmouth Yardstick rating will be issued.

Max LOA is 30 feet.

2.The “Open” portion is for skippers who wish to race under a development or box rule. Class one-designs may elect to join one of these group as well. These are ALL sailboats. In general, this category is for new designs and builds, but by no means exclusively.

1.All hulls and decks must be wooden. OF COURSE this includes wood-epoxy and stitch-and-glue. Localized use of carbon-fiber OK.

2.Spars may be wood or aluminum.

3.Sails must be dacron or polywrap; spinnakers may be nylon. No other materials permitted.

4.Max LOA measures from the aftermost point of the transom to the foremost point of the bow, including spinnaker pole, extended. Rudders will not be measured unless they are abnormally large (judges' discretion).

5.Max Beam includes wings or racks (racks may be wood, aluminum, or stainless steel). Trapezes are permitted and are not measured as such. If a boat is a multihull, no Max Beam shall be enforced. But multis will race in a separate class, if applicable.

6.Top of highest sail to bottom of centerboard/daggerboard/leeboard/keel is measured from the top of the tallest sail to the lowest point on an extended foil. For this first year at least, hydrofoils are not permitted. Gaff rigs may have spars that extend above the masthead, without penalty, unless judged “too extreme.” This is judges' discretion. This may change in the future. In no instance may be the gaff be longer than 100% of the boat's LOA.

7.Moveable ballast – except crew – is not permitted. Well, if there is enough call for this, we can have a separate division....

The spirit of this competition is fun, safety, and simplicity.

The event is tentatively scheduled for May 20-22, 2011 at the Rock Hall Yacht Club, MD – pending the club's board meeting in April.