t3knomanser:I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

Replace publishing/publisher with editing/editor, and I'll agree with you. The best books, whether traditionally or self-published, have a strong editor to make sure a story is strong. Successful authors frequently keep using the same editor, even when they move from publisher to publisher.

The publisher handles the nuts and bolts of getting the book to market, but the author/editor are responsible for how good the content is.

Otto_E_Rodika:Here's an idea. Maybe understand a little about plot and structure before you start writing fiction. You don't instantly become a surgeon just because you're holding a scalpel. Being a novelist requires a basic knowledge of the craft. And if you want to be putting out more than circle-jerk fan fic, have some talent to go along with that desire.

Agreed.

One of my novels, Cicada, was named "New and notable" by Kirkus Reviews and later made their "Best Indies of 2012."

Not to brag. Just trying to say that I'm not just throwing words on a page between bong hits. I spent years studying and reading and writing to get my work to a point that I thought it worthy of putting a price tag on it.

Here's an idea. Maybe understand a little about plot and structure before you start writing fiction. You don't instantly become a surgeon just because you're holding a scalpel. Being a novelist requires a basic knowledge of the craft. And if you want to be putting out more than circle-jerk fan fic, have some talent to go along with that desire.

Hahahaha exactly what I came to say. Her book is just like damn near every video game now that gets released.

All she did was issue a patch.

Not just related to video games, any software really operates with this model. Good on her for adopting this approach I say.

Yes, good on her for not actually proofing her story. Good on developers of software releasing buggy messes to fix for later on because they need cash now.

It's a horrible approach that should be done away with. If you want me to test your game, then sell it cheaper since I'm now doing some of the work you should've been doing all along. If you want me to proofread your book for you, sell it for cheaper. When it's all done then release a full-price version. That way it rewards the people who helped and delivers a final product at full-price for everyone else.

t3knomanser:Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

You can still put out a good quality book. My real work is in dramatic writing, but a friend made a nice chunk of change publishing a few romance novels, so I took a crack at it under an assumed name. It was 1$ per thousand words for the editor my friend was hooked up through her publishing house (before she went the self-pub route) and she also introduced me to her cover artist (also met through her publisher).

I was charged $59 for the editing but paid $70 because I liked the work and want to be high on her to-do list if I write another book. I was charged about $85 for the cover. It would've been higher, but the designer provided a link to the image collection she works with and I found all the desired elements myself - she just had to pull the pieces together. She did such a great job (in only a few days) I paid about $100.

I've also done two fiverr marketing campaigns, one with an add-on.

That's about $200 bucks total. I've received from Amazon about $560 in royalties so far. As this isn't my first or second main source of income and I enjoy the work, this is a nice payout for me. I bought a new laptop with the net plus about $40 bucks which will probably come out of the next royalty payment. I still haven't looked into Nook publishing.

Here's what I've learned: Some genres sell themselves. I think my nice cover, tight blurb, and low cost (3 bucks, because that's about what I figure it's worth as it was my first time in a new field) contributed to a TON of upfront sales. When those dropped off I did a free promotional weekend and got to see myself second on the free book bestseller list in my genre, right behind Ocsar Wilde. That was fun for me and the free days resulted in more reviews, which resulted in more sales, though still less than the original few weeks.

Per my friend's experience, if I write another book in this genre and publish under the same name (which I plan to, perhaps once a year if 'real writing' and work allows), I can look forward to a sales bump on the first book as well as a hopefully comparable experience with the second.

tl:dr: If you want a lot of money, get a job. If you want some extra money for sitting in your pjs at your computer and being creative, self-publishing isn't a bad way to go.

t3knomanser:Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

And damn, do so many self-published authors skimp on those other costs. I've seen so many books with covers that were obviously made by a friend in an hour.

What I'd like to see is a collective publishing company, where it's owned by the authors who participate.

Hi! Abandon author here, let me recap exactly how much I spent, and how much I gained from this novel:

I spent:

28 days writing it4 hours of cover design myself36 hours of figuring out how to convert to mobi and epub$200 on a book tour by OrangeBerry Book Promotions

I was luckily and actually had another Farker edit it for me in exchange for one of her book designs, so I'll count that as another 3 hours of my time.

I have made, to date on this book roughly $20,000.

That being said, I already had a fairly established fan base since I've been blogging since I was 17. But I really think it was the $200 investment in the book tour which was targeted to my "romance" fan base that really helped.

All and all, it's been a pretty interesting journey. I'm actually thinking about taking the money from my second book and investing it in a publishing company to help self-published authors get off the ground. :)

I um... actually don't recall. One of my co-authors is handling more of the business-side of it. It's not a technical book, but it's a publisher that usually handles technical subjects.

AdolfOliverPanties:For first timers though, it is hardly the road to riches they are envisioning.

Yeah, I imagine if you have a built-in audience, you can do well. But even when you're getting 70% of the proceeds- how much are you paying your editor? The cover designer? The copy-writer? What's your marketing budget? What sort of vendor management do you need to do to maintain your relationships? Too many self-published authors seem to think having a social networking account is "marketing", and that they'll get great placement on Amazon if only they get enough positive reviews from their fans.

And damn, do so many self-published authors skimp on those other costs. I've seen so many books with covers that were obviously made by a friend in an hour.

What I'd like to see is a collective publishing company, where it's owned by the authors who participate.

t3knomanser:unlikely: This is why with just one or two exceptions, Self-Pub authors are and always will be tier two.

I just can't believe that self-publishing authors are serious about either writing or publishing. Both of these tasks are extremely hard work, and require a great deal of dedication to be successful. The skill overlap between the two areas is nil. Were I a serious writer, I'd much rather work with a publisher, because all of the bits that publishers do are boring to me.

//Actually, I will be part of an anthology book. We're working with a publisher. I'm definitely not a serious writer.

The lure of self-pub is great though. You get 70% of the proceeds from sales instead of the farking tiny amount the publisher offers. It is a GREAT deal for authors who have already gone the publishing route with success. They can now really begin to reap the rewards of their work. For first timers though, it is hardly the road to riches they are envisioning.