We've observed certain behaviors from Joeys we have acquired who seem to be "too young to sell" or "too young to separate from parents." We have definite opinions about this and seem to see more "too young" ones at shows and flea markets - sold by mill operators.

Now I am not going to poison the well by throwing out a number of weeks. Instead I am going to list the behaviors that "too young" joeys seem to display.

If you guys will read this and then tell me what age is safe, that will be a good sanity check. We think we know the "right" number, but hesitate to throw it out here and ruin it by putting a number in everyone's head.

Anyway, here are the "too young" behaviors:

1. Joey shivers a lot2. Joey cries a lot3. Joey fouls his or her own nesting area (I mean a lot, not accidents)4. Joey is skinny or runtish5. Joey curls up in food dish and sleeps on top of food6. Joye does not seem to know how to groom

Well for my 2 cents worth except for #4 that is what ours have done or are doing right now. Ours are baby pigs they love to eat. So unless there is a rejection, pulling from parents should not even be in our vocabulary. Even if you need to supplement because they are not getting enough to there is no reason to seperate until they are fully weaned.

I tell my clients 8-9 weeks. When I see a joey out of the pouch and eating, drinking, and playing on it's own for 4 days to a week I'll send it home. I won't send a baby home till I'm sure it understands how to find food and water.

I give clients the date of pick up when the joeys are 9 weeks old. If the joey matures fast and seems ready I'll let the client pick them up earlier, but not before 8 weeks.

I've never had one that went past 9 weeks without being out and about.

Ed, most believe that 8 weeks is the appropriate age, however, I like to watch behaviors in joeys as well. Sometimes, even though they are indeed eating on their own, playing, being a clown, there are times you can still catch them nursing on mom once in a while during the morning hours.

I believe that it is best to wait between the 10-12 week mark in joeys. Not only in case they are still nursing, but watching my guys over here teaching the joeys (I posted different pics before of them teaching them)there is just so much they learn up until that 12 week age.

I'm not a breeder but IMO the behaviors you've listed are all reasons to NOT seperate a joey from its parents and in almost all of those cases, I would take the joey to a vet!

I don't think joeys should be sold by age as much as by "behavior". They should be acting, eating, drinking and playing like mini adult gliders before they go to a new home.

yes, SugarBlossums, they are reasons NOT to, so I think we are on the same page. I have definite opinions on this, but before I said anything I wanted to get some un-tarnished feedback. Thanks to all of you so far.

Any more input? Any medical or veterinary sources for guidance? Thanks!

Not all gliders are going to behave in that way weather their 7 weeks to 10 weeks or older all gliders develop differently just like any animal or human .Ones opinion isnt going to match someone elses and maybe the gliders your talking about may be to young but some arent and those that actually sell theirs over 90 percent of those breeders have done this for years and have enough experience to know weather or not its safe for the joey or to early .Everyone has the right to believe what they believe but it doesnt make others who disagree with that that their wrong .I keep mine till their ten weeks and their healthy and prosper wonderfully when they are in their new home.Ive also gotten gliders who were older that didnt bond as the younger ones do with me and others have had the same set backs .But the things you describe Ive never had a glider who developed those things.

_________________________
Having Faith and Hope that some day soon.That all the world will come to see that all of gods babies deserve love and affection.

tammyangel, I agree that everyone has the right to believe in what they want to believe in. It looks like there are really a diversity of opinions on this and I guess that's what this post is all about... To get everyone's opinion, right? So it's all good...

And you make some good points.

I think you said "10 weeks."

Many thanks for weighing in on this. This is the input I was looking for.

Im not saying 10 weeks is what is best for them I just chose to keep mine till than to tame them more Ive been breeding gliders for about 6 and half years now and Im pretty new at it but I have never had a joey leave my home that anyone wasnt able to actually feed them out of their hands or kiss them on their little noses and they never crab unless you wake them up in the morning .But Id say its all on the gliders themselfs some may not be good at 7 weeks some may do great at 7 weeks and than some may need more time but it doesnt make those who actually sell them be wrong at 7weeks or 15 weeks .The old saying is right humans and animals are alot alike some humans arent ready to be on their own even when their ages 18 and than some are very responsible and ready at age 16 to actually make it on their own. Everyone has different opinions on all aspects of gliders weather buying colors is good or what diets best Some think selling joeys at 7 weeks is the best way to get them to bond and some think not to sell .

_________________________
Having Faith and Hope that some day soon.That all the world will come to see that all of gods babies deserve love and affection.

I kept mine no less than 8 weeks. I decided ultimately by separating the joeys (after they were 8 weeks, to start) with their dad over night (away from mom). If they lost weight, it was a sure way to let me know that they were still nursing and just not ready. A couple of mine stayed until they were about 11 weeks. I did have the problem, though, that some of my boys hit maturity at 8 weeks (full bald spot) so had to be really careful with keeping them with their mom full time too much past their bald spot coming in.

_________________________ ~GretchenMaia & SquishIf we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

I will not adopt out my joeys until they are at least 8 weeks oop. Most are at about 9-10 weeks oop when they are adopted out. I don't watch the calendar as much as watch their behaviors to make sure they are fully weaned and know how to use the water bottle, wheel, etc. I know that there are breeders out there that let their joeys go at younger ages, but I personally don't believe they are ready to go until at least 8 weeks oop.

Thanks everyone so far. It looks like several people made comments on how watching for behaviors was key to their decision on what age is appropriate. Behavioral Development is also often brought up in formal texts on glider husbandry as well. Anyone else?

Lucky glider i will answer your e-mail when i have more time, but for now i think if you are going to say eight or ten weeks you have to have a constant to start out from. an oop date is not a constant as gliders come out of pouch looking so different(from pinkie to fully furred), eyes opening from 2 1/2 weeks all the way up to five days after oop. if you use a constant as a date then you should go from eyes open and start eight weeks. The only other way is to tell from behavior eating, drinking, potting. but if glider just starts to taste food and see getting one drink, have they learned enough in two or three days or do they need weeks with mom and dad eating or showing them how and what to eat.mine eat with parents for at least 2-4 weeks as my little joeys come out and start weaning very early. why i'm not sure but may have something to do with having more babies in pouch.

well now that I have had one set of boys i see that when i bought mine they were to young and showed some signs of it looking back now, now that i know more about them when my boys came oop i keep them till they were eating , drinking and pooping i sold them at 9 1/2 weeks oop but as a few have said it's not age it's how they are developed that counts.. when i bought my first 2 the little girl got sick and died 11 days after coming home she was to young i think . but now are big healthy babys so is the other 3 i have but i think it goes to say just trust what you think is a right age..

art and jeanmarie thanks so much for the input. Yes, I can see that behavior and development are so very important. I have been collecting a lot of data on this and I think I can say without being too controversial, that if you keep and eye on them and understand he behavioral signs, you can make a good decision about when the best time to separate is.