Tuning works best with ESP and star. Its a little easier with ESP but both work well. I havent tried camp. You can tune pro but it takes a lot of tweaking to get it right. I wouldn't recommend tuning dx.

The tuning holds for a very long time. Even with a fair amount of tree hits (treenials as I like to call them). Basically you are getting the plastic deformation during the tuning. If you do it quick enough with each bend you'll get the plastic past bending and into deformation where it loses its natural memory.

Yu only have to tune the discs once, but youll need to do it about two to three times all the way around for it to stick. After that it should hold indefinitely.

Tuning affects the HSS properties. The LSS is only really affected by the overall shape of the nose edge and aerodynamics of the disc. I have found that all of my tuned teerexs fade the same, with just the HSS varying.

Does the tuning affect the high speed or low speed portions of the resulting flight to a greater extent?

Usually premium plastics are better than Innova pro. I've had some success in restoring some of the stability to a 30 degree bent down soft blend DX Teebird and great success with a DX Roc. I haven't tried to trick tune discs so I don't really know but my initial impressions of trying to restore bent by a hit discs suggest that LSS isn't really changing but HSS has major differences. As long it isn't a trashed pro Wraith No bringing it back to life For the same role anyway. At least Champion Orc 175 seemed to stay in the tuned condition until I laked it. It changed from beat and flippy to new condition.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Does tuning a disc to be more overstable have a big effect on resisting turn from headwinds since it affects the high speed stability more than the low speed stability?

Can you make a disc that is horrible into a headwind (like a Sidewinder) into a headwind disc?

Is there an inherent limit to the amount of change in stability that you can expect from tuning?

What discs have you seen change the most with tuning? Why do think they are more susceptible to flight alteration through tuning?

Yes, disc tuning does have a noticeable affect on wind resistance to a point. If you take something that has a very small leading edge and tune it to be very overstable it will resist turning into a wind but not as much as something that has a larger leading edge, i.e. tuning a Wraith and new mold TeeRex. The TeeRex will always have the advantage of more wind resistance. As per your second question, I have a tuned ESP Flash (similar to Wraith) that will hold it's own into a 5 to 10 mph headwind. But I would recommend for a headwind disc to start with something that has more natural HSS. I think that would yield the best results. Then again, try it with the sidewinder and let me know how it goes.

I think there is a limit to where the disc just becomes too HSS and you won't be able to notice any more changes to it in the respect that you won't be able to achieve enough disc speed to flip it up. I can put as much as I want to into my HSS tuned TeeRex with just a little hyzer and it will hold that hyzer line for the full flight. And on the other hand, my HSS understable TeeRex (sister disc) will hyzer flip and turn even without a headwind.

I think you can drastically alter any high speed driver. The larger the rim on the disc the more "room" it has to hold the deformation. My TeeRexs are the most drastic change, but I would be you could get away with using an ESP Flash for every kind of disc (pig, HSS, Wraithish, uber flippy). It really is just a matter of choosing a disc that you like and feels good in the hand, getting a few of them and tuning each one to do what you want. I would recommend picking something that is more neutral (Wraith, TeeRex, or Flash) as a starting point so you don't have to start with one extreme and work all the way over to the other.

Thanks for your answers, Seth. I no longer have any Sidewinders to work on to see if I can turn them into Predators, but I've got some other discs I want to mess around with.

For my long range drivers, I have 4 SOLFs in the bag right now - a 1.2 for headwinds and hyzers, a newish 1.1 for slight hyzerflip flex shots, a seasoned 1.1 for hyzerflip straight shots, and a really beat 1.1 for turnovers. It would be cool if I could tune a 1.1 (which I have 5 of) into a 1.2 (which I only have one of). I'll have to give it a try.

Morgan Lasley
When life gives you lemons, stick them in the freezer for a few hours, then throw them back, 'cause they're like rocks, man.

One more note. When you tune them DON'T throw them immediately because they will not be the same in 10 to 15 minutes. I would recommend tuning once around the rim and then letting them sit. Then throw it and find out if it needs any more tuning. It might require several tunings before the deformation stage holds since there is always a memory in the plastic. It's just a matter of working that memory into submission like Chuck Norris does with all who oppose him.

geoloseth wrote:One more note. When you tune them DON'T throw them immediately because they will not be the same in 10 to 15 minutes. I would recommend tuning once around the rim and then letting them sit. Then throw it and find out if it needs any more tuning. It might require several tunings before the deformation stage holds since there is always a memory in the plastic. It's just a matter of working that memory into submission like Chuck Norris does with all who oppose him.

Unlike Chuck Norris who can tune your face into whatever in his dojo/ugly(beauty doesn't really fit does it?) parlor there's probably a limit for everything. The less a disc deviates from new the higher the chance of a predictable thus wanted the results is. You can make a stable disc understable any time by wearing it normally or tuning it but you can't turn a noodle arm into a body builder in a day. I wouldn't hold my breath with the Sidewinder to Pred experiment based on how much my trashed pro Wraith changed in shape but not in flight characteristics.

If I had to guess I think it's always easier to drop high speed stability than to add it. I've certainly seen an increase in high speed stability and wind resistance by tuning a disc but LSS increased too. But that was with a disc that was already a bit on the overstable side as new turning into a moderately overstable.

It's not the mold only but the damage too that dictates how much a disc changes with tuning. It's no surprise that I've gotten the most flight performance change out of a TB bent 30 degrees down for a wide area and a Roc bent 15 degrees. I heartily recommend detuning discs deformed that way even in DX

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

Tuning is great. I heard people use the term, never asked about it, then I learned it naturally because I noticed that those Baby Blue Illusions' nose sat so frickin' close to the table compared to normal Illusions, and were very understable. So when I got my Pro Destroyer and it faded right out of my hand, I bent it down like that to get the wing lower, and now it flops over and doesn't come back.

Furthur - you still got those proto Blurrs you tuned into blobs? I crack up when I think about you throwing them off old #10 at Turkey Creek and they'd turn over instantly and not come back.

geoloseth wrote:One more note. When you tune them DON'T throw them immediately because they will not be the same in 10 to 15 minutes. I would recommend tuning once around the rim and then letting them sit. Then throw it and find out if it needs any more tuning. It might require several tunings before the deformation stage holds since there is always a memory in the plastic. It's just a matter of working that memory into submission like Chuck Norris does with all who oppose him.

Unlike Chuck Norris who can tune your face into whatever in his dojo/ugly(beauty doesn't really fit does it?) parlor there's probably a limit for everything. The less a disc deviates from new the higher the chance of a predictable thus wanted the results is. You can make a stable disc understable any time by wearing it normally or tuning it but you can't turn a noodle arm into a body builder in a day. I wouldn't hold my breath with the Sidewinder to Pred experiment based on how much my trashed pro Wraith changed in shape but not in flight characteristics.

If I had to guess I think it's always easier to drop high speed stability than to add it. I've certainly seen an increase in high speed stability and wind resistance by tuning a disc but LSS increased too. But that was with a disc that was already a bit on the overstable side as new turning into a moderately overstable.

It's not the mold only but the damage too that dictates how much a disc changes with tuning. It's no surprise that I've gotten the most flight performance change out of a TB bent 30 degrees down for a wide area and a Roc bent 15 degrees. I heartily recommend detuning discs deformed that way even in DX

I heartily have to disagree. You can tune amlost any disc to do what you want. I can take a star beast that has a -2 HSS and tune it to be a 0 or possibly 1/2 HSS. Its all in the way you tune. Doing it properly you can take that beast and throw with a wrist roll under and have it act like a monster. The only thin that won't change is the LSS.

Iminterested to see what comes of tuning a 1.1 ols to be HSS. I bet that you can get it to be a predator stable disc. But it might not be as wind resistant since it doesnt have the notch on the bottom.

geoloseth wrote:One more note. When you tune them DON'T throw them immediately because they will not be the same in 10 to 15 minutes. I would recommend tuning once around the rim and then letting them sit. Then throw it and find out if it needs any more tuning. It might require several tunings before the deformation stage holds since there is always a memory in the plastic. It's just a matter of working that memory into submission like Chuck Norris does with all who oppose him.

Unlike Chuck Norris who can tune your face into whatever in his dojo/ugly(beauty doesn't really fit does it?) parlor there's probably a limit for everything. The less a disc deviates from new the higher the chance of a predictable thus wanted the results is. You can make a stable disc understable any time by wearing it normally or tuning it but you can't turn a noodle arm into a body builder in a day. I wouldn't hold my breath with the Sidewinder to Pred experiment based on how much my trashed pro Wraith changed in shape but not in flight characteristics.

If I had to guess I think it's always easier to drop high speed stability than to add it. I've certainly seen an increase in high speed stability and wind resistance by tuning a disc but LSS increased too. But that was with a disc that was already a bit on the overstable side as new turning into a moderately overstable.

It's not the mold only but the damage too that dictates how much a disc changes with tuning. It's no surprise that I've gotten the most flight performance change out of a TB bent 30 degrees down for a wide area and a Roc bent 15 degrees. I heartily recommend detuning discs deformed that way even in DX

I heartily have to disagree. You can tune amlost any disc to do what you want. I can take a star beast that has a -2 HSS and tune it to be a 0 or possibly 1/2 HSS. Its all in the way you tune. Doing it properly you can take that beast and throw with a wrist roll under and have it act like a monster. The only thin that won't change is the LSS.

Iminterested to see what comes of tuning a 1.1 ols to be HSS. I bet that you can get it to be a predator stable disc. But it might not be as wind resistant since it doesnt have the notch on the bottom.

That is news to me. I'm really interested if one could make a Sidewinder not unpredictably flippy. Especially a broken in one. I still have hard time believing a Sidewinder or a Roadrunner can be made a beadless Predator that acts like a Pred in no winds and less than Pred in a headwind. I'll have to sacrifice a disc probably to see what's going on. Don't have SW or RR. Well I own a RR that is on permanent loan to my friend. No help because it works for him so I won't touch it.

What kind of brought back from the dead experiences you've got? I have ultralight Diablo DT and UL Nike RIDT that are rollers and a dead pro Wraith. They haven't responded to bending them back to original shape. I'll tune them more aggressively to see what happens.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

I used almost as much bend to try to restore my UL Diablo DT and now it has the nose higher than new. I had to push the flight plate up because it sunk like on many discs I tried to restore. It changed from roller to s-curver from stand still but golfable s-curver which means this is an unfamiliar disc and it was the indian not putting enough initial hyzer on the disc. The disc can be hyzer flipped to flat. Very nice!!! Thanks.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.