Distinguished Member

There's been some fairly heated discussions lately about the relative merits of various subs. No change there then.

Most of it has stemmed from the very nature of forums, where individuals of widely differing experience, all contribute their thoughts. OP wants opinion on Sub A. Correspondant X has heard Sub A and Sub B. Correspondant Y has heard Sub A and sub C. Correspondant Z has heard Subs B & C and extrapolates performance of Sub A from X and Ys experience. Z posts his thoughts on Sub A in a later thread and it all kicks off. We've all done it. I know I have.

Of course, these opinions, even on the same sub can differ wildly between two owners because subs, being as they are, very room/positioning dependent.

Online objective tests are a fantastic resource. They can let you weed out the also-rans in an instant. But even so, where two subs show similar results, you frequently see statements like "yeah, but once you get it in a room, then it'll show the difference. Take the Velo DDs. They generally show massive compression below 30Hz at high volumes, but they're renowned deep bass monsters. RELs with their humped response (with the smaller ones at any rate) measure poorly and even the bigguns don't go very loud, but their owners don't recognise this description based on their experience of living with one.

It seems, that in the interest of balance, it would be good to do some in room comparisons. I'll stop short of calling it a shootout, but I can't think of another name for it.

I'd just like to canvass some opinion as to whether anybody thinks it's worth it, possible, or even desirable.

FWIW, my thoughts are thus:

It's got to be done in one room and one room only. This means someone would have to be willing to host it. I'd be happy to, as it's my suggestion and there's any number of inducements to keep Mrs russ.will out of the way, with a bit of notice. I'm also quite happy to put people up if they think it's worth the journey.

The test would be based on AV use only. Reference level, 80Hz crossover, low level input only and EQ'd to the room. I know that may not suit some people, but these things take time and that modus operandi is right bang down the middle of the road and suits the vast majority on this forum.

Does there need to be some sort of measurement and if so how in depth? A basic in room response curve (pre & post EQ) would seem to be adequate to my mind. There's a plethora of objective measurement available elsewhere, I think it may be more interesting to see how subs perform in practice if the difference is audible.

Anyhoo, I'd just thought I'd float the idea to see if anyone else thinks it's worth it. I already have one interested party, so I guess that's the PB-12/Ultra sorted.

Well-known Member

I think in the interests of creating a debate for all users of the subwoofer forum we should endeavour to avoid the fanboys favourites and try an entice some of the other brands that don't 'hit the headlines' quite as much around here.

As much as I enjoy my sub I would rather spend the time listening to Rel, MJ, M&K, Velodyne, B&W etc.

Maybe I am bias *cough* but I bet you get loads of offers from SVS owners and if you didn't have a BK yourself more of the same. We all at least 'think' we know how good they are so can we listen to some others and learn something new?

Moderator

That's a fair point Adam, I'll also be controversial and wonder whether testing an assortment of subs in a particular room will tell you more than which sub is best suited to that room (EQ not withstanding). It's still a good idea though and Russel's rather nice HC room would be a good starting point.

Dave

My opinions are my own and do not represent those of the AVForums or its associated websites.

Distinguished Member

Good points also, but where else do you listen to a sub? At 6x4m (approx) with a 2.4m ceiling, my room is about as average as it gets. Certainly more average than a playing field. I'd reckon the EQ will make it less room dependent however. That's one of my original points - with room gain factored in, and the sub EQ'd, how far apart are the subs that struggle in the open air.

Well-known Member

As a thought and this depends entirely on any interest generated, it'd be good to say get an SB12, MA RSW12, MJ Ref 200, B&W ASW675, BK XLS-200 at the same time. Then maybe do the big boxes another.

In other words, keep the subs at any one time comparable with each other. People with any of the above for instance, wouldn't have considered one of the bigguns or visa versa.

Russell

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Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. There are just too many subs to give them a good workout in a couple of days.

Starting with the smaller ones would probably benefit more people who are sub-less or new to the forum as it is a more likely purchase point... at least I would have thought so.

Might I suggest you ask some kind moderator, these do exist I have heard rumour... to change the title to something that will catch the eye of more people or maybe start a new thread once we have nailed the format here?

Your offer is very much appreciated. It would appear that the big subs are going to be easier to get hold of, which seems a bit odd.

@Angel Eyes - I'm thinking of small subs full stop. Price not an issue, the idea being to see what the extra money really buys given that they're all a similar size. Y'know, what does an SB-12 give you that an XLS-200 doesn't.