Do i need to keep going? I didnt include fire because we all know what fire's top parses look like..

Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.

Originally Posted by Kenbud

Making incorrect statements and claiming them to be fact is plain stupid.
.

Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.

Take your own advice.

You can take WoL parses with a pinch of salt, its not hard to state a common fact.

However what you can look at is this; even the highest possible frost parses under the best RNG scenarios thats happened to any frost mage on any given fight, they are still 20% behind.

Top WoL parses are meaningless, unless absolutely every factor in your comparison is completely equal and controlled, ranging from the group setup to the impact of RNG on the specs, since your sample size is so tiny that there's absolutely no statistical inference you can make at all, which is exactly what you are doing. I'm not even going to go into the sampling bias between the Arcane sample and the Frost sample leading to skewed results.

You just can't pit top ranks against each other and then make sweeping conclusions, it's intellectually lazy and unfair.

You obviously have no reasoning skills nor read my other post about comparing parses. Top parses are a sample of the best Players in the best gear having the best RNG. I use the term best loosely and hope you don't take it literally and try dismiss my logic using that. These best case scenarios show what a spec is capable of and although it is not 100% accurate its pretty fucking easy to see the disparity. So yes it is a 100% undeniable fact that in BiS gear there is a 15-20% damage disparity between frost and arcane. So before you spout off bullshit use your brain.

I think we all know that frost has a serious problem with scaling. Dunno why you guys fighting about this topic. There is nothing in the spec you can go nuts with and that´s why there will be no frost mage with results like fire or arcane mages in 550 gear with cloak and gem.

*Edit* Back to topic. Still no further changes, I think it looks like an Arcane tier.

I never would've allowed this thread to exist. From the first page I knew this would happen.

Wish it could just get locked.

There has been some actual good discussion but I will agree in that I'm growing tired of the same argument thread after thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by citizenpete

I think we all know that frost has a serious problem with scaling. Dunno why you guys fighting about this topic. There is nothing in the spec you can go nuts with and that´s why there will be no frost mage with results like fire or arcane mages in 550 gear with cloak and gem.

*Edit* Back to topic. Still no further changes, I think it looks like an Arcane tier.

Agreed just hope they dont do the hotfix nerf after patch business again.

I tried to tweet GC several times about frost situation, he ignored all of them I never played arcane in all my wow life, so it'd be hard to learn the spec i never understood and never wanted to understand.

I tried to tweet GC several times about frost situation, he ignored all of them I never played arcane in all my wow life, so it'd be hard to learn the spec i never understood and never wanted to understand.

Frost has been the 3rd best dps mage spec since at least 3.03, with only very short times where it was vying for 2nd place. There have been times where it has been within 5-10% of arcane/fire if you were to take into account more of a median dps that was controlled for by ilevel, and MoP has done well to keep frost at least viable, whereas in the past it was significantly hurting your raid.

Frost mages aren't hurting their raids with bad dps anymore. They have no shot at top 10 WoL parses, and scaling of course is an issue, but you should be able to play frost through SoO without making your raid team miss a boss kill because your dps was too low. There were a couple of dps checks in ToT. Frost mages were fine on those encounters. They will be fine again in SoO.

And if you really hate arcane and can't play frost, fire will also be viable as well. It's looking like fire won't be as good as arcane, but it shouldn't lag behind so much that it would cause you to hit an enrage due to lack of dps.