Just because Toyota's market share is rising does not mean
that people are going to change their buying preference.
My next vehicle will be either a Ford or a Chevy. It will
most likely be a Ford F-250 4x4 truck.

interest
One post, as I have hashed this out too many times in the past. Ford and
GM are as
good or better than anything Nissan, Toyota, Honda, or any of their
subsidiaries produce. They are
a 100 fold better than the junk Hyundai, Kia, Mazda, or Mitsubishi put out.
All one has to do is research the number and types of recalls the asians
have been having for almost 2 decades
vrs what Ford and GM have been issuing.
Of course researching that is hard these days, since AllData and Mitchell
both pulled the lists for Asian cars
this year. I wonder why they did that.
Whitelightning

Graph the domestic's market share for the last 20 years and you will see
a disturbing trend. If they don't change things is just a matter of
time before they will go the way of the dodo bird.
Mike Hunter wrote:

Because they sell terrific cars (just like GM and Ford). But, unlike GM and
Ford, they sell them at a profit. Plus, they are able to sell many
fuel-efficient cars, because they have so much more experience building and
selling them than Ford and GM. And at a profit, too.
Jeff

You obviously do not understand the automobile business. Economies of
scale, they ARE indeed making a big profit on their cars and trucks. The
corporation is not making a profit however because of lower higher profit
truck sales, plant restructuring and reductions as well as force reduction
costs.
GM and Ford are spending billions if OR&DO, as well, for the many new
models coming to market over the next three years. If one closely reads
many of the various current owners surveys, rather than what is in the
media, GM and Ford are arguably building BETTER cars and certainly better
trucks than any of the imports. Even import buyers who the believe import
cars are better, say the trucks from GM and Ford are better than what they
find at the import stores.. How is that for a perception, when many of the
engines and trannys in the GM and Ford cars are the same as in their trucks,
albeit configured for more torque. Torque by the way is something the
Japs give up in spades to get more horse power out of their underpowered
engines
mike
wrote in message>>> The only place the domestic automakers are getting their a$$ kicked is

I had a talk with the owner of a Toyota dealership today about Ford's
problems. He said Ford has spent way too much money on acquiring brands
(Volvo, Jaguar, Aston-Martin, Land Rover etc.) and not nearly enough on
their own product development and this has left them in a financial
bind. He then went on to rattle off all the new vehicles Toyota will
bring to market this year and it is a long list. He said Toyota doesn't
worry about buying other companies but they are concerned with upgrading
and updating the model line on a regular basis. He said they are
getting ready to launch a full sized truck that is going to take a huge
bite out of GM and Ford's sales. If Ford starts to lose substantial
F150 sales to Toyota then they are going to be in some serious $hit. He
also said the Firestone tire debacle on the Explorers hit Ford very hard
financially and has reduced the number of Explorers they sell by a good bit.
His take was that Ford needs more vehicles like the Edge to bring them
back to black and cars like the 500 are just too bland and underpowered
to be successful. Keep in mind that this Toyota dealership owner has a
Mustang GT setting in his garage so he isn't as one sided for Toyota as
you might think. ;)
Mike Hunter wrote:

Actually Ford and GM fail on a number of measures that make for a
'better' product. GM makes a lot of boring, utilitarian, FWD cars and has
been doing so for many many years. Ford has the mustang, that's it. The
500... what's that? A warmed over volvo? There is more that goes into
'better' than simple reliability. GM has cheapened parts to where it
feels cheap.... it might be reliable but look and feel and things like
that matter when you are trying to sell a product.

I am well aware how recalls and such are handled in the media. It doesn't
help ford and gm that's for sure. But when ford can put a mustang out
that's good and it sells, it's obvious that this isn't crippling them, it
has to be something else.

Much of what he complains about doesn't go away with higher trim levels.
Look at the mustang just from '94 to '99. How much was decontented away?
Leather rear seat, underhood light, etc etc. I am still waiting for some
'94s to hit the local self serve yards so I can start pulling off things
that were decontented by '97.
And the utilitarian feel of cars like taurus? That doesn't go away at
all.

Once ford cuts away the fat brought about by decades of union demands and
managment excess,
they will be back on track.Never be 1st but at least a viable competitor.
I'm sure its gonna hurt a lot of people before it gets better.
The auto industry is NOW no different than any other job that pays you on
performance.
Make good stuff at a good price and they will come.
I know easier said than done!

Unfortunately, the only way to get out from under "all that baggage"
that they have been dragging around will be to declare bankruptcy -
which will have devastating and long term effects on the US economy.
You could head this off by having ALL the US based automakers (at
once), their investors and bondholders, their subcontractors and
suppliers, and the Unions representing all their labor forces
renegotiate their contracts and agreements now, while the companies
are still viable.
One of the stipulations would have to be that all the pension and
benefit liabilities have to be caught up on and the trust funds made
whole NOW, even if that lowers the wage rate some more.
Unfortunately, you aren't going to get them all to agree to this -
the unions still have the attitude "We won these rights through
collective bargaining, and we are going to keep them!"
Last I checked, keeping 100% of nothing still isn't a good deal.
Berating a dead horse helps nobody - first you have to stop the
beatings and nurse it back to health, then we talk again.
The bankruptcy wipes out all the investor equity, except for the few
privileged people that can use dodges like preferred stock or the few
secured things the BK court can't touch. Ford stock was once
considered one of the solid "Widows and Orphans" investments that
would never go away - not anymore... Any suppliers owed large sums by
Ford will be hurt, some could be put under.
All the current employees and retirees will be hurt, badly. They
can annul all the contracts, and use the leverage of "Sign the
contract we put in front of you, or we don't open back up at all."
This guarantees a workforce that really doesn't care whether the
company survives or not...
The health insurance and other benefits will go away or be severely
restricted, and the pension plans will go under and the (deliberately
long under-funded) pension liabilities will be dumped on the US
Pension Benefit Guaranty Fund - paid out of the General Fund which
will hurt the US Economy.
And when the PBGF takes over the plans, the retiree benefit payout's
drop a LOT compared to what was originally negotiated.

And there is a large lag time to consider - it can be several years
between when they start actually delivering quality products at a good
price that are also easy and inexpensive to repair and maintain over
the long haul, and when you can convince the public that it has really
happened, and that they won't backslide.
When you can change simple things simply - like swap the heater core
in any Ford vehicle inside of two hours, or get to all the sparkplugs
without disconnecting the motor mounts and lifting the engine
partially out of the car or cutting a hole in the firewall (among
other bonehead stunts they've pulled over the decades) - then I'll
believe that they've fixed the engineering.
--<< Bruce >>--

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