ISIL has lost 45% of Iraq territory

The Islamic State has lost 45% of the territory it once held in Iraq and 20% of areas it controlled in Syria, according to new estimates by a U.S.-led coalition combating the extremist group.

That’s good news. A long way to go, but losing territory is important. ISIL is not Al Qaeda. Their appeal and legitimacy comes from holding territory. There will always be Islamic terrorism (sadly) but ISIL as an entity can be defeated by loss of territory.

New Zealand has played a role in this, with our training of Iraqi troops. The opposition would have had us do nothing but take in more refugees. By supporting and training the Iraqi troops, we are helping with ending the suffering of those who were living in territory controlled by ISIL.

Far better to help stop creating refugees, and making their homes safe again, than doing nothing to stop ISIL.

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Comments (72)

Nostalgia-NZ

It is good. However, there is no guarantee that the leadership at some point will not realise that their Caliphate is misguided and that they need to transform into something more like Al Qaeda to survive. Maybe a compromise over territory would lead to a more sustainable long term peace – if they could be trusted of course. Putting trust aside a truce of some sort that included land could hold them more easily to account, long term.

Far better to help stop creating refugees, and making their homes safe again, than doing nothing to stop ISIS

Now your getting close DPF. But still your changing the narrative as “ISIS” had nothing to do with the overthrow of Gaddafi, Hussein or the coup against Assad.

But I digress…….. ignoring the above fallacy in argument, the question then becomes, who is behind ISIS?

Who provided the advanced weaponry, the media training to produce slickly edited propoganda videos, the access, technical know how and ability to launder money from oil trading and on and on.

Peer under that lid and you might find this game start to get a little uncomfortable for the MSM narrative of ISIS being a rag tag bunch of Jihadis. At best, it is probably Turkey and the Saudis (you know the state who we fly flags at half mast for), or, at worst, complicity of our Western Allies as Russia was able to achieve more success in a fortnight of bombing than they were in a year.

But then again, the MSM doesn’t like us thinking too much about serious events which is why today’s headline on Stuff is yet again about the Bachelor…

Only because we won’t deal with them. In the distant future, when they’ve finally managed to catch up with current Western levels of civilisation, they might (just might) stop trying to blow people up over religious convictions (a novel concept, I know). However, waiting until 2450 AD might be a bit too much, even for the most patient among us. So I have a far simpler alternative: treat the barbarians as barbarians and stop trying to reason with them. It is a fundamental flaw, at our end, that we assume savages are interchangeable with ciivlised men. We can barely manage to civilise many in our own population and afford them far too much unearned respect. We can help to civilise some people, but it will take bloody years, and should be done in very controlled circumstances. In the meantime, we continue to play the Ostrich, and that is why we will ‘always’ have Islamic terrorism.

Simon

cmm

I think you have misread what causes the refugee crisis. ISIS play a role, but they are not the cause of most refugees. Many are coming from countries unaffected by war.

What causes the refugee influx into Europe is the welfare system. The average yearly earnings in some of these places is somewhere around a month of the dole in Germany. Take the dole in Germany for three years and you’ve had a lifetime of earnings in one of these places.

On top of that, German dole is on a per-person basis with extra pay out per child. So why not just breed, breed, breed?

igm

That must mean we can start repatriating a large number of bogus refugees and give our taxpayers a break. Maybe we will free up a number of State houses . . . Labour followers are now using cars as P labs.

Looking at the way the West, specifically the US, deals with the disaster they have created in the Middle East any sane observer would think they didn’t want to end terrorism; that they were in fact inflaming the conditions that were most likely to produce more terrorism. What the world needs is less Western military intervention in conflicts that have nothing to do with them.

Inandout

Islamic ISIS need the koran to justify their disgusting beheading and dismembering of babies, Muslims need the koran to justify their weird lifestyle and dislike of Christians. The obvious answer is to outlaw that repulsive publication as it has the seeds of destruction for our way of life; forget ‘human rights’ because that doesn’t apply to an enemy.

KevinH

Iraq is a Sunni nation and with that in mind it will be almost impossible to defeat ISIL in what could be described as their home nation where support for ISIL’s Sunni leadership is at it’s strongest. Iraq is a hotbed for Sunni inspired fundamentalism and there will always be a willing cadre of supporters and sympathisers willing to take the fight to US led forces intent on the destruction of ISIL.
Further to that, now that Iran has signed a non nuclear proliferation agreement with the IAEC, Iran will be regarded as an enemy nation by ISIL who will continue to wage a sectarian war with Iran , a war that is a continuation of the conflict orchestrated by Sadam Hussein in the 1980’s. The irony being that Sadaam was backed by the US during that conflict and now there is a complete turnaround whereby the US is now backing former foe’s Iran and to a lesser extent Russia.
The war with ISIL in Iraq is a war of attrition. Eventually ISIL’s advance will grind to a halt as their resource capability is diminished by coalition forces. This will bring a temporary reprieve to the battle but not completely resolve Sunni aspiration for an ISIL homeland.

Huevon

I don’t understand our government. They take with one hand and give with the other. Our armed forces assist with fighting ISIS overseas but our Immigration department settles ISIL sympathizers and potential jihadists in our towns and cities.

burt

Equally, saying that Islam can never be domesticated is an oversimplification. In the end, they will learn, but it will take hundreds of years more. As I’ve said before, look at what ‘Christians’ did for nearly 2k years. Do we all sit around wanting to burn witches now? No, because we have wondrous social evolution, in which realised such behaviour is utterly barking mad. Granted, we could look to the foundations of Western civilisation and say, ‘Yes, let us emulate the Greeks and the Romans’, but even then, let’s face it, we aren’t descended from Ancient Greeks (I’m not). We adopted their civilisation, but it still took us a lot of blood and misery, and even from the Renaissance it took us a long time to get where we are now.

So I have ‘faith’ that Islam will be tamed someday, not by us, but by its adherents finally waking up (Mohammed Luther’a’baba or whatever he’ll be called – again, several hundred years from now I should imagine). However, that doesn’t mean I’ll be treating the tiger as a pussycat anytime soon…

Steve Wrathall

KevinH “Iraq is a Sunni nation…”
According to Wiki Islam accounts for an estimated 95% of the population, while non-Muslims (mainly Assyrian Christians) account for just 5%. It has a mixed Shia and Sunni population. The CIA Factbook estimate that around 65% of Muslims in Iraq are Shia, and around 35% are Sunni. A 2011 Pew Research Center estimates that 51% of Muslims in Iraq are Shia, 42% are Sunni, while 5% identify themselves as “Just a Muslim”
So Sunni are a minority

One day the Islamic world will have their Enlightenment and their Renaissance, and if the English world is still around then and can make peace with them, the world will be a wonderfully different place.

David Garrett

UT: I happen to have my copy of the Holy Koran right here…please direct me to the Suras which instruct Muslims to live peaceably with unbelievers and not to interfere with their peaceful enjoyment of life…

You have to check near the end, in the bit that looks like a Willie Wonka contract… 😉 You see, Mohammed had perfect eyesight and could read 0.0001pt fonts. It’s all a big misunderstanding by us infidels! 😎

stephieboy

“Who provided the advanced weaponry, the media training to produce slickly edited propoganda videos, the access, technical know how and ability to launder money from oil trading and on and on.”

With you there just has to be a conspiracy involving most likely the nefarious and evil Jews and their proxies Obama, Cameron , Hollande etc

ISIL are a local Iraq phenomena recruits and leadership drawn mainly form the former Iraq armed forces put out of work by the Bush 2003 invasion.PLenty of young disaffected social media and techno savvy recruits too that explains their mastery of the former . The paranoid conspiracy narrative posits the nefarious US , Britain and France etc in collusion with them and the Saudis whilst bombing them at the same time . Your narrative makes ” perfect sense .”

I take it you have proof positive that the key Government is also behind it all and training the Iraq army to fight ISILis a sham ?

It was pour rain yesterday and I had a raincoat on with my hood up. I popped into cash converters and as soon as I walked in I was asked to take my hood down. I bet if a Muslim female with just eye slits nothing would be said. That would probably be the same in a bank and probably a courtroom.

Scott

Totally agree with DPF’s analysis. I just wish we would hit them harder, I do think they will only be defeated by boots on the ground. Under the next president I expect US troops to be deployed to defeat Isis which would be a good thing.

stephieboy

RalphT

They haven’t actually lost 45% of their total territory. They may be down 45% in Iraq but they are replacing it by establishing footholds in parts of Europe which will more than compensate for any reverses they suffer in Iraq and Syria. A temporary setback on the way to the long-term goal.

David Garrett

Stephie: Of course he doesn’t have “proof positive” of that…what he DOES have is proof positive that these people subscribe to a primitive religion which preaches death and destruction not only for the infidel, but of their own, if they dare to leave the fold…

You are clearly prepared to take the chance that they won’t see fit to apply it literally…I’m not. But I don’t get to chose, because some goobers in Wellington believe the bullshit people like you promulgate.

Of course there is nothing in Koran about Muslims living in Dunedin, and how they should behave…

I don’t know if anyone has seen the Ghost Writer, but the statement by Pierce Brosnan’s character (playing an ex-PM) was spot on:

‘Spare me the bleeding-heart bullshit! Do you know what I’d do if I was in power again? I’d have two queues at airports: one for flights where we’d done no background checks, infringed on no one’s civil bloody liberties, used no intelligence gained by torture. And on the other flight we’d do everything we possibly could to make it perfectly safe. And then we’d see which plane the Rycarts of this world would put their bloody kids on! And you can put that in the book!’

UT: I happen to have my copy of the Holy Koran right here…please direct me to the Suras which instruct Muslims to live peaceably with unbelievers and not to interfere with their peaceful enjoyment of life…

stephieboy

David Garrett, you seem to know your Koran very deeply and thoroughly .Quote me a verse or two that sates our local Muslim community should take arms against you and me , our families and communities ?

If you are able to then I will quote you the same from the Bible in resect of dealing with unbelievers !

Proof positive that the 650 Syrian refugees pose a significant security risk to your country ?

burt

They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
Surah 4:89-90

O you who have believed, do not consume one another’s wealth unjustly but only [in lawful] business by mutual consent. And do not kill yourselves [or one another]. Indeed, Allah is to you ever Merciful.
Surah 4:29

David Garrett

Stephie: Lets try a hypothetical…at some time in the future, a couple of your brethren run into a cafe in Wellington screaming Allah u akbar…After haranguing the customers about the prophet and the religion of peace, they shoot several of them, and then themselves…will you: a) claim they were driven to it by the opposition and lack of tolerance of New Zealanders; or 2) claim they were mentally ill, notwithstanding said terrorists had no mental health history; or 3) humbly admit you were wrong about the risk Muslim immigrants pose; or 4) other?

Just a hypothetical…indulge me and my fellow infidels…Please don’t dissemble…I’d prefer you just to refuse to answer than that…

burt

UglyTruth

So, it’s demanding you kill them or you don’t kill them dependent on what Allah gave them the will to do.

What a load of horseshit your bat shit crazy sky fairy followers spout. FFS – it’s 2016 and you’re still living in the stone age. I though Allah was merciful but he’s clearly evil if he has failed to give you any intelligence to work with on your journey through life.

stephieboy

Rich Prick ,

“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;”

These severe laws commanded the members of the Hebrew religion to murder even their own children if they did not worship Yahweh (God).

These Bible words can justify, to a fanatical fundamentalist believer, the killing of friends or family simply because they may fail to change their beliefs.

Why anyone today would accept these words, much less allow them to exist in a sacred book goes against the nature of any tolerant and loving people

Slay Old And Young

“And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.” (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

Comment

These words, commanded by God, orders the slaying of not only women and the old, but of little children. These accounts of cold-blooded massacres occurred simply because people refused to accept Yahweh. These phrases should give warning to anyone who knows a person who believes every word in the Bible.
For what sense of moral reasoning should we allow ourselves to admire such Biblical verses?

Do we say therefore ban Judaism or Christianity because of these terrible destructive verses and the fate that awaits unbelievers ? The facts are the Bible and the Koran ( inspired directly by the former ) are full of these kinds of End of times Eschatology baying at the fate of unbelievers

Rich Prick

Huevon

@ stephiboy

Good lord you are retarded, aren’t you? The odds that at least 1 of the Muslim immigrants that been forcibly resettled in our country is a honest follower of his religion and a terrorist are overwhelming.

I look at it this way. I’m a Catholic and I’ve spent my life surrounded by Catholic families and at Catholic schools. If you take a random sample of 10 Catholics, I would say 1 or 2 are ardent atheists, 3 or 4 sorta believe, get their kid baptised, go to church at Christmas, 2 or 3 go to mass every Sunday and actively practise their religion, and 1 will have embaced some ultra traditionalist super Catholic movement. I know this because it reflects my friends and family.

1 old school friend has gone ultra Catholic. He had 5 (maybe 6 by now) kids, they get homeschooled, he is no fan of Obama or John Key. This guy is about as catholic as you get. And he is the most peaceful, prayerful guy I know.

Contrast that to a muslim who embraces his religion wholeheartedly. This man will inevitability be lead t supporting violence and oppressive theocratic government. That is what Muslims believe! If he takes his faith seriously he must become a terrorist. That’s the difference and that is why I don’t want them in this country!

stephieboy

David Garret, speaking of cafes it would be worthwhile for you to first of get a handle on the Sydney Hostage and Siege crises back in 2014.

The culprit Iranian born refugee Mon Haran Morins was known to be mentally disturbed . He was diagnosed with Schizophrenia by a Psychiatrist. As well as having a criminal record and serious domestic issues with his wife . The irony was that he also was Shia ( even though converting at the last moment to Sunni ) utterly loathed and hated by the Sunni ISIL . A further sign his mental instability .

Now that is I believe the first and last time of a major” terrorist “ Incident in this neck of the woods and inspired by some one who was obviously mad .

I think your major problem is that you desperately need a sense of perspective and balance and not one driven by xenophobia and paranoia . Only then will the government and our wider society take your and others here Islamaphobic Muslim bashings seriously !

David Garrett

Stephie: As expected, you simply dissemble…no surprise there…

Albert Ross: I’d say that is probably the case…but there aren’t enough of them – yet – for problems to happen… based on overseas experience, the Muslim population must reach 2% for problems to start, and they are currently only about half that.

Aredhel777

As reluctant as I am to get involved in theological arguments (which don’t have a damned thing to do with ISIS, but somehow the anti-God brigade always seem to bring up Christianity whenever radical Islam is mentioned):

UglyTruth’s misuse of this passage is one of the worst I have ever seen, and I couldn’t just let it go:

For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Romans 3:7

The passage is about how we are forgiven for sins through faith instead of works, and how that brings out God's glory. In the verse you quoted, Paul identifies the argument that sinning more brings out God’s glory more as a false argument made by his detractors, and rebuts it. I quote the surrounding context in full below. Please do a basic modicum of research before attacking faiths you know nothing about…..

5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not! If that were so, how could God judge the world? 7 Someone might argue, “If my falsehood enhances God’s truthfulness and so increases his glory, why am I still condemned as a sinner?” 8 Why not say—as some slanderously claim that we say—“Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!

As reluctant as I am to get involved in theological arguments (which don’t have a damned thing to do with ISIS, but somehow the anti-God brigade always seem to bring up Christianity whenever radical Islam is mentioned):

There is a theological connection with ISIS via Israel:

From Clinton’s emails:

“In short, the White House can ease the tension that has developed with Israel over Iran by doing the right thing in Syria. With his life and his family at risk, only the threat or use of force will change the Syrian dictator Bashar Assad’s mind.”

ISIS in Syria are assisted by the Turkish state, which implicated the US secretary of state Kerry in a conspiracy against Syria. Kerry succeeded Clinton in the role of secretary of state.

The text says “Israel” but the context implies a reference to the Zionist state, not Israel itself. The difference between these two is a theological issue.

The passage is about how we are forgiven for sins through faith instead of works

False, faith does not lead to forgiveness, and the immediate context is about vengeance, not forgiveness by faith. Paul doesn’t say which lie of his he is referring to when he says “my lie”, but logically it would be his lie about being appointed as an apostle on the road to Damascus (Acts 9 & 22 vs Acts 26). The topic of faith doesn’t come up for another 14 verses In Romans 3.

Rich Prick

No Ugly, Islam is pretty fucked up. Unless you’re really into all the gore, child brides, mutilations, beheadings, amputations, burnings, drownings, crucifixions, acid disfigurements, bombings, shootings, goat fuckings, throwings off buildings, disembowelments, clitorectomies … Argh, I have no will to carry on with that list. This is 2016, not 1014. And your’re a sicko if you’re really into all of that.

Rich Prick

Stephieboy, abuse me as much as you like, I’ve seen all the video clips, and that’s just what Muslims do. That it doesn’t happen outside the dairy down the road from your place does not erase the fact the barbarians do it elsewhere. To women, gays, children, non-Muslims, or just about anyone Allah tells them to hate. Take your religion of so called peace and shove it deep up your arse. I hate it. With a passion. And when Mohummad gets his dick out of his goat, or 8th wife, he’s on my list to.