Now that I think about it, they are doing the proper thing. Flag etiquette dictates that one national flag should never fly above another, so if the Venezuelan flag is at half mast, all flags in the group should be at half mast.

Well, Citgo is owned by Venezuela. They have a right to lower their flags as much as American companies have a right to lower their flags should their owner or President die. Any private citizen or corporation can lower its flags as a sign of respect to a departed former employee or notable. Happens all the time here in Ottawa. The Government lowers its flags for the death of Privy Council Clerks and other people who retired decades ago and are barely remembered in the public service let alone the Great Wide World. My usual response is to wonder who died. There's a slight chance I'll know if it was news.

I find many Americans get their knickers in a knot over flag etiquette too often. Much of this etiquette was originally informal and not official, then it applied only to government flags (I believe legislation has been passed extending some of it, but it is still a mixture of invention, custom and law).

American flags fly over every country on Earth (probably even North Korea when there is a formal state visit). Why fuss and feud over other people's flags? Sure, the US was insecure in the early days after the Revolution when they thought the British wanted to re-invade (rightly or wrongly, at least a little rightly) but there really is no sound reason in international law to object to the flying of foreign flags by private citizens to show their national pride, nor is there much reason to object to corporate bodies or countries which fly their flag according to the rules, such as over their own property, cars, or embassies or what not.

If you are flying flags out of national pride or for the tourist trade, it is good manners and good sense to fly the American flag and possibly some state or provincial flags as well to show you are making no territorial claims, however absurd that might be. I've seen the Welsh flag flying over Canadian residences, but am pretty sure we are under no threat of Welsh invasions unless they come up with the next Beatles, which seems unlikely since the Welsh can sing and play musical instruments.

Hey, stay calm and hang out more flags. Some of them are quite ornamental, and it's educational to fly as many of them as possible. I live in a national capital and I'm a little embarrassed and ashamed when I see a national flag I don't recognize. I should know them all. THEM ALL. Even Bhutan.

Not liking Hugo Chavez is ok. Being a right-winger is disturbing but possibly well-intended. Equating, somehow, on a moral scale HC's rule with the brutal and genocidal and cleptocratic right-wing genuine dictators that the US has helped install in Latin America time and again is fantastic, ignorant and disingenuous.

The sad conclusion, if the NSDAP hasn't already driven the point home, is that propaganda works.

A caller named 'Doc' told Patrick, "I called their facilities manager and led a march of about 800 patriots from one of my Facebook pages."

800 patriots. Led on a "march". From one of his Facebook pages.

That sounds like a "whoever wins, we lose" type of situation.

But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Onkel Buck:Necronic: I have to wonder though if all those people banging on about the flag code actually know whats in it. Like those little American flag napkins you like to bring out on the 4th of July, or that american flag shirt you wear to the rodeo? Totally against flag code.

Ironically republicans violate the flag code on a more daily basis than anyone else simply by putting it on everything. Which is strictly prohibited.

And liberals are never guilty of being tacky[i26.photobucket.com image 313x430]

Liberals don't claim to give a shiat about the flag code. Republicans are the ones who claim the flag is sacred, and any disrespect to it makes you a traitor commie libtard.

chiett:I noticed that all the Americans that thought Chavez was a great leader moved to Venezuela to be part of the equalizing movement he created. I'm also sure the Billion dollars he amassed was only money he has protecting for the people. Please instead blame the USA for our past sins in South America instead of looking at the CURRENT news.

I think the bigger CURRENT news is that we spend 800x that amount for tanks, war ships, bombs, guns, and planes that will never fly to fight Achmed with a couple underwear bombs and pipe bombs. Let me know how that's working for us.

Was Chavez a good guy? Some say yes, some say no, but certainly no worse than the guy that destabilized our economy to go re-right daddy's war in the great farking sandbox of the Middle East while amassing HUNE profits at companies like Haliburton, Lockheed, Boeing, and Blackwater. Ah, so soon we forget.

Honestly this just emblifies what is good about our country. We allow this kind of stuff. Makes me happy to see, because it's a large part of why we do so well. We don't care who you are or where you're from (for the most part), if you can make money, come and do it here.

nekom:tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

That is correct, although I do disagree with them lowering the US flag in this instance. I think they should have just lowered the Venezuelan flag and left it at that.

tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

chumboobler:Insatiable Jesus: nekom: tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

No, now is when all the assholes who put flags on the back of their vehicles, wear jackets made out of flags and suck the flag as they fall asleep come out of the woodwork to keep everyone straight.

If you are against free speech then you do not believe in what that flag stands for. To love that flag is to love the freedom to spit on it. You don`t have to love spitting on the flag, just the right to do so. If you think otherwise then you do not respect the flag. You respect only your version of America. It is not freedom when you demand others think as you do.

A fair point, but many people do not respect flag etiquette even though their intent is not to disrespect it.

If someone wants to burn the flag, that should be protected speech. If you want to make a pair of pants out of a flag, well, that's your right but it is disrespectful and you should be criticized for it.

There's an upside down flag in the movie Easy Rider and it's not the one on Capt. America's leather jacket. Kind of an interesting piece of trivia about the movie. I don't know if it was flown upside down on purpose.

I've seen a couple of breaches of flag etiquette done by a state:

Those are both pictures of the Motor Vehicle Department (Arizona's version of what's called the DMV in most states)

I'm not sure I have a point. Maybe Arizona should just start flying the Mexican flag.

RIP Hugo Chavez. Thank you from all 250,000 of the low-income families in New England that you donated oil to during this cold winter (and multiple winters before). Hugo Chavez was a true humanitarian.

Onkel Buck:Necronic: I have to wonder though if all those people banging on about the flag code actually know whats in it. Like those little American flag napkins you like to bring out on the 4th of July, or that american flag shirt you wear to the rodeo? Totally against flag code.

Ironically republicans violate the flag code on a more daily basis than anyone else simply by putting it on everything. Which is strictly prohibited.

And liberals are never guilty of being tacky[i26.photobucket.com image 313x430]

Let's recap, shall we?Necronic: "Republicans violate the flag code more than anyone else."Onkel Buck: "You said liberals never violate the flag! But here's a liberal doing it!"Hmmm. I think there's a problem here.

stonicus:Necronic: Some other great parts of flag code to get offended over:

Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunset The flag should never be worn or used as bedding or drapery.[blog.mlive.com image 453x301]

The rule isn't talking about "clothes with red and white stripes and some blue things sewn on."

The rule is talking about wearing an actual flag. Like, take it off a flagpole and turn it into a poncho.

The photos posted in this thread may be all derpful and redneck, or maybe just in obnoxiously-patriotic poor taste, but none of them are violating flag etiquette. For that you need self-consciously edgy album covers.

Oh jeez. This is silly. Nobody was harmed. No wars were started. So who gives a shiat?

Honestly, I think people who are politically-motivated spend their lives looking for ways to jam their thumb up their opponents' asses while likewise being exceptionally sensitive and interpreting everything as a thumb-jab.

Onkel Buck:Necronic: I have to wonder though if all those people banging on about the flag code actually know whats in it. Like those little American flag napkins you like to bring out on the 4th of July, or that american flag shirt you wear to the rodeo? Totally against flag code.

Ironically republicans violate the flag code on a more daily basis than anyone else simply by putting it on everything. Which is strictly prohibited.

And liberals are never guilty of being tacky[i26.photobucket.com image 313x430]

Wait, so you have to go back to the 60s to get a picture of a liberal wrapping himself in the American flag?

There I Was:StoPPeRmobile: nekom: tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

It's not.

/studying law this semester//veteran

Study harder.

Chapter 1 of Title 4 of the U.S. Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the flag. It's a federal law, but one without punitive measures for failing to comply with it.

Per this law, only the President, state governors, or the mayor of Washington DC can order half-masting of the flag. But lowering it in this instance is speech covered by the 1st amendment. Still a dick move IMO, but what are ya gonna do? That's why the 1st amendment kicks ass.

/Not studying law, but proficient in WikiGoogle Fu//Also a veteran

It seems Presidential authorization is not explicitly required.

"In the event of the death of other officials, former officials, or foreign dignitaries, the flag of the United States shall be displayed at half-staff in accordance with such orders or instructions as may be issued by or at the direction of the President, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law."

Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunsetThe flag should never be worn or used as bedding or drapery.The image of the flag may not be printed, embroidered or otherwise impressed on anything designed for temporary use and discard. This includes napkins, paper plates and cups, packaging or stampsNo part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform; flag patches are allowed as part of the uniform of a federal, state, civic or patriotic Many traditions here highly honored by car dealerships and country music stars nationwide.

Ordinarily it should be displayed only between sunrise and sunsetThe flag should never be worn or used as bedding or drapery.The image of the flag may not be printed, embroidered or otherwise impressed on anything designed for temporary use and discard. This includes napkins, paper plates and cups, packaging or stampsNo part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform; flag patches are allowed as part of the uniform of a federal, state, civic or patriotic Many traditions here highly honored by car dealerships and country music stars nationwide.

I have to wonder though if all those people banging on about the flag code actually know whats in it. Like those little American flag napkins you like to bring out on the 4th of July, or that american flag shirt you wear to the rodeo? Totally against flag code.

Ironically republicans violate the flag code on a more daily basis than anyone else simply by putting it on everything. Which is strictly prohibited.

I love how everyone focuses on Correa/Morales/Lula/Kirchner as the next champions of the left in Latin America, but no has said shiat about Mujica, whom I think he's not only the next latin american champion of the left, but also an example of humility while being a high-ranking politician.

StoPPeRmobile:nekom: tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

It's not.

/studying law this semester//veteran

Study harder.

Chapter 1 of Title 4 of the U.S. Code establishes advisory rules for display and care of the flag. It's a federal law, but one without punitive measures for failing to comply with it.

Per this law, only the President, state governors, or the mayor of Washington DC can order half-masting of the flag. But lowering it in this instance is speech covered by the 1st amendment. Still a dick move IMO, but what are ya gonna do? That's why the 1st amendment kicks ass.

nekom:tallguywithglasseson:But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.

Why not? Flag etiquette is, to the best of my knowledge, not codified in law.

Respect and protocol. Respect for your country, your host state and the country of origin of the deceased. Protocol says only the US President can ask that you lower the US flag for a foreign dignitary. So, by lowering all three flags Citgo is breaching protocol and showing disrespect to the US, to Texas, and to Venezuela.

Should it be a raging, depfest, by "patriots"? Fark no, but it is an annoyance that nobody seems to understand formal protocol and respect anymore.

oh_please:joeflood: Now that I think about it, they are doing the proper thing. Flag etiquette dictates that one national flag should never fly above another, so if the Venezuelan flag is at half mast, all flags in the group should be at half mast.

§7 (g) When flags of two or more nations are displayed, they are to be flown from separate staffs of the same height. The flags should be of approximately equal size. International usage forbids the display of the flag of one nation above that of another nation in time of peace.

Then again, True Patriots™ think we're at war with every non-US country...

joeflood:Now that I think about it, they are doing the proper thing. Flag etiquette dictates that one national flag should never fly above another, so if the Venezuelan flag is at half mast, all flags in the group should be at half mast.

I remember the time when my boss was getting British visitors, and he thought he would honor them by hoisting up the Union Jack. But he only had one flagpole. So he put both the American flag and the Union Jack flag on the same pole, with the American being on top. The American flag was also a little bit larger.

indarwinsshadow:I'd post a picture of a momunent to Hugo...but I'd probably get banned. The guy was a steaming pile of dog crap, whose passing was a good thing. Why you ask...simple. The world needs less despot corrupt evil dictators. His death was a good start (hope it hurt). Probably a hundred or more to go and we'd be a better place.

The only thing about that is someone who's even crazier may take over.

tallguywithglasseson:A caller named 'Doc' told Patrick, "I called their facilities manager and led a march of about 800 patriots from one of my Facebook pages."

800 patriots. Led on a "march". From one of his Facebook pages.

That sounds like a "whoever wins, we lose" type of situation.

But yeah, Citgo, as TFA states The flag may only be lowered for the death of foreign dignitaries if indicated in Presidential instructionsYou don't just lower the flag to half mast when you feel like it. shiat heads.