I think my nose started to bleed along with Ganon's when the butcher was revealed.me have bwain dammage

...I thought I was so close. We all thought we were so close. Zach Grafton, you are a frickin' brilliant writer. No one could have guessed this, but it still made perfect sense. There were clues everywhere, but shit, we missed them.

I literally just finished Mother 3 last night. Well, I stayed up 'til sunrise because I knew I was nearing the end and couldn't bring myself to stop. I think I'll spoiler tag this twice, just in case:

The following spoilers only describe the plot and themes of Mother 3, though not the actual events. But just to be safe:

Spoiler:

That was a dark game. Seeing Lucas as one of the butchers meant so much more to me after I finished the game.

The following spoilers describe THE EVENTS AND ENDING OF EARTHBOUND/MOTHER 2 AND MOTHER 3, SO READ AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION.

Spoiler:

I was hoping there would be some mention of the Lucas' past after I saw him as part of the butchering team, since it would fit so nicely. I mean, having your mother die, then fight your long-lost brother, then letting him beat the tar out of you after realizing he's your long-lost brother, then watching him die could have done some serious damage to one's head. But I suppose they couldn't go into that without going into Ness' story too, which is sunshine and rainbows in comparison. Yes, I know Giygas was a disturbing villain by himself/itself, but Mother 3's themes were awful. That chapter with the hallucinogenic mushrooms was pretty disturbing (albeit hilarious), so I understand why Nintendo can't port/release it in the US without editing the hell out of it.

Actually, maybe they could have mentioned it in passing: "This one was already damaged beyond repair, but our baseball-playing friend here needed a little convincing."

Oh well, too late to change anything and it's not a big deal. Definitely more than satisfied the way things are now.

But all in all, the episode (the following aren't spoilers for anything)

This is a really bizarre coincidence. I think my subconscious was trying to tell me something.

In mid-December, just before bed, I'd been reading the forums while eating half a bag of BBQ potato chips (crisps, for those of you in the UK). That night, I had a really bizarre nightmare... It was the 10th episode of TWBB. Somehow, I had been invited to the Brawl set and was allowed to watch some of the filming.

Luigi is running through the Nintendo Towers, and he comes across this storage room, littered with crates and boxes. He hears Kirby's voice from across the room and cautiously walks in. Luigi comes across a horrific sight: Kirby has taken Peach captive, and has already started to dismember her... starting with her face. The skin is laying on the floor next to her, and her remaining face is a crusted-over, disfigured mess. There was some dialogue that I don't remember too well (basic Kirby taunts with Peach begging Luigi for help), but there was some kind of effect that when Peach talked, the mouth of the disembodied skin would move, too. Even though it was a set with actors and it was a special effect, it still creeped the hell out of me.

Looking back now, I probably should have taken that as some kind of hint...

Although, to counter that point, I had another dream the next night where I was on the Brawl set, just hanging out with the cast and crew. Justin and Gavin, while in their Pit and Marth costumes, were all over each other. ^^ It was awesome.

so I understand why Nintendo can't port/release it in the US without editing the hell out of it.

Keeping that in Spoilers, although it's not spoilerific.

To answer your question: It's not the content of the game why Nintendo isn't releasing Mother 3 (or Earthbound on VC for that matter) in the West, but mainly copyright issues.The games a have a shitload of references and use copyrighted music. While that is no big deal in Japan because of their different copyright laws, it would be far too dangerous for Nintendo to release those games in the States or Europe without making millions, if not billions, of loss because of the huge Copyright Lawyer industry here.

-The Word: Children. Used very often since episode 1.-Mewtwo's orphanage.-Samus only heard Dedede getting hit in the head, with no slicing sounds. Ness teleported them both in, got a SMAAAAAAAAAAASH hit with the baseball and let Lucas rip D inside out.-"They are up there alright. They are up there watching. They get into your head."-Ness and Lucas playing around in the immigrant area. Suspicious, much?

-The Word: Children. Used very often since episode 1.-Mewtwo's orphanage.-Samus only heard Dedede getting hit in the head, with no slicing sounds. Ness teleported them both in, got a SMAAAAAAAAAAASH hit with the baseball and let Lucas rip D inside out.-"They are up there alright. They are up there watching. They get into your head."-Ness and Lucas playing around in the immigrant area. Suspicious, much?

A couple things:

The whole children thing isn't that good of a reason since it really doesn't help to reveal it being them, it was something used to make the revealing just a whole lot more ironic and something no one would see coming. Also we had other children characters like Jill and Diddy possibly and Leaf, so it didn't really narrow it down to only them if it was a reason.

Wasn't Mewtwo's orphanage only for Pokemon, like Red said in episode 6?

I don't think the blunt trauma thing is much of a reason, yes Ness has a baseball bat so it makes him more likely, but there are tons of other characters it could've been, Ice Climbers, Link could have the megaton hammer or something, Meta could've just hit him with the back of his sword as would Pit and Marth, Kirby has a hammer in SSBB, so given the circumstances that didn't really lower the possibilities of who it could be at all, nor is it a good reason to hint at them since it could be so many other characters.

What's that quote from?

The last one is the only one that yah, I think was a good reason and one that we should've noticed, since it was also Mewtwo's old area.

The whole children thing isn't that good of a reason since it really doesn't help to reveal it being them, it was something used to make the revealing just a whole lot more ironic and something no one would see coming. Also we had other children characters like Jill and Diddy possibly and Leaf, so it didn't really narrow it down to only them if it was a reason.

Wasn't Mewtwo's orphanage only for Pokemon, like Red said in episode 6?

I don't think the blunt trauma thing is much of a reason, yes Ness has a baseball bat so it makes him more likely, but there are tons of other characters it could've been, Ice Climbers, Link could have the megaton hammer or something, Meta could've just hit him with the back of his sword as would Pit and Marth, Kirby has a hammer in SSBB, so given the circumstances that didn't really lower the possibilities of who it could be at all, nor is it a good reason to hint at them since it could be so many other characters.

What's that quote from?

The last one is the only one that yah, I think was a good reason and one that we should've noticed, since it was also Mewtwo's old area.

I believe the "children" thing was intended to be like Arc Words. Ever watched Doctor Who, especially the new series? They love to do that.Also, Jill and Leaf were pretty clearly adult versions of those characters.

Also, the orphanage was for "underpriviledged orphans". I recall Lakitu said that.

Of course, the blunt trauma could have been caused by, for instance, Dedede's own hammer, but remember: Link said that Samus only heard the sound of Dedede's skull getting fractured. She never heard any slicing sounds, because Lucas ripped the guts out with telekinesis, just like he did to Pit's wings.

I don't know, I think that the actual suspicions were thrown down by the environment here on the forums, rather than the actual films.

Zach said that every character would appear, and, if I remember correctly, that he disliked working with children, if I recall correctly. I also want to remind you that we saw a few characters only play a minimal role in TWBB, such as R.O.B., who only was in Olimar's possession and didn't really do anything other than being a cult artifact. Sonic and Snake who just were 2 hobos. And of course Game & Watch before Episode 9, who only appeared as cameo-ish character in form of a cab driver and at the bar in Tingle's club. So it was our outside informations from Zach and our discussions that made the Mother boys look innocent.

Lucas and Ness appeared in that one scene where they played ball and reminded Luigi of his statement about how he would continue to fight as long as there is one child left. So the assumptions were that it would stay with that one scene. While I remember there being people wondering why the 2 boys play in an alley at night, I think it was shrugged off because everyone thought that it was just the only time they would appear.

Of course, there were hints and small tidbits of information, but they were so disconnected from each other that connecting them would've been difficult, especially with the information we got from Zach himself - albeit I'm sure that he intentionally was just saying that he disliked working with children, which doesn't rule out children still being worked with. Along that it might've been a small lie just to fool us even more.

Spontaneous Combustion wrote:I believe the "children" thing was intended to be like Arc Words. Ever watched Doctor Who, especially the new series? They love to do that.Also, Jill and Leaf were pretty clearly adult versions of those characters.

Also, the orphanage was for "underpriviledged orphans". I recall Lakitu said that.

Of course, the blunt trauma could have been caused by, for instance, Dedede's own hammer, but remember: Link said that Samus only heard the sound of Dedede's skull getting fractured. She never heard any slicing sounds, because Lucas ripped the guts out with telekinesis, just like he did to Pit's wings.

Spontaneous Combustion wrote:I believe the "children" thing was intended to be like Arc Words. Ever watched Doctor Who, especially the new series? They love to do that.Also, Jill and Leaf were pretty clearly adult versions of those characters.

Also, the orphanage was for "underpriviledged orphans". I recall Lakitu said that.

Of course, the blunt trauma could have been caused by, for instance, Dedede's own hammer, but remember: Link said that Samus only heard the sound of Dedede's skull getting fractured. She never heard any slicing sounds, because Lucas ripped the guts out with telekinesis, just like he did to Pit's wings.

The quote is from episode 8, Snake said it.

I've actually never seen Doctor Who, but JonnyJinx has explained to me what it and arc words are, and I agree that it is a lot like an arc word.

Hm, I see what you're saying, just wish they had said it wasn't only for Pokemon or something in an episode.

OOOOoooooooh, I gotcha, so as in no one would have sliced the corpse to open it and rip out the guts, ah yah that it pretty tricky of them to lay that in there, to get all the guts out from that 1 spot in his skull and do it quickly would take like super natural powers.

How do we do that Snake knew who the butchers were and was talking about them?

This conversation is making me like Ness and Lucas more being the butcher.

Showing our Butcher Buddies playing in the alley was a misguider. Since we saw them already, we marked them off the list as possible suspects. But it was such a small role. And of course, there IS no small roles. They tricked us into crossing Ness and Lucas off our list, and we fell for it. Genius

-The Word: Children. Used very often since episode 1.-Mewtwo's orphanage.-Samus only heard Dedede getting hit in the head, with no slicing sounds. Ness teleported them both in, got a SMAAAAAAAAAAASH hit with the baseball and let Lucas rip D inside out.-"They are up there alright. They are up there watching. They get into your head."-Ness and Lucas playing around in the immigrant area. Suspicious, much?

You forget. "Blunt force trauma to the head" in Dedede's autopsy report, Ness's baseball bat. Bowser talks about "where the venom works"... Lucas has a snake.

As for Kirby being behind it all...

Spoiler:

It was asked and revealed at MAGfest that Ganon WAS behind it all... until Episode 5 or so. Zach and Matt thought it would be way too obvious by that point if Ganon was the killer and the puller of strings, so they added Kirby, Lucas, and Ness.

So really, when we look for clues for Kirby being behind it all in addition to Lucas and Ness being the killers, we have to start looking after Episode 4.

It seems like Episode 8 was, clue-wise, the most useful episode. Firstly it reminded us of the alleyway and the fact it was Mewtwo's old turf, so we can connect that to Ness and Lucas via Episode 4. Fox mentions the "cannibal's progeny", which implies children and there's also the "They get into your head." line. SC worked out how Mewtwo could've been connected, so I think if we had a bit more time, we could've considered the facts that he has an orphanage, him, Ness and Lucas are all psychic, the fact that "children" is an often used words, the word "progeny" is used to actually describe the killer himself by Fox. There's also the fact Ness and Lucas fit the physical description better, being able to cause blunt force trauma and being able to teleport away. So yeah... we MIGHT have put all that together with what SC worked out about Mewtwo, with a bit more time... maybe.

So, yeah, as was rightly said, the clues WERE there, we just didn't see them.

Meh, I just thought the G&Ws poisoned Bowser using a liquid made from white pikmin venom. They had a bottle afterall, and the Rope Snake has never really been said to be poisonous in either Mother 3 or There Will Be Brawl.

JonnyJinx wrote:Meh, I just thought the G&Ws poisoned Bowser using a liquid made from white pikmin venom. They had a bottle afterall, and the Rope Snake has never really been said to be poisonous in either Mother 3 or There Will Be Brawl.

In TWBB, that stops being a rope snake. That's a flippin' cobra in Lucas' hands...