that assesement i agree with, but thats not the point of my responce to yours. I meant to say that people looking at those cars arent generally concerned about "resale value", and if they are either they do everything in life with a business like mentality or they're arent true car enthusiasts. Just my opinion.

Click to expand...

I respectfully disagree.

I say most of the people who are on dealer waiting lists for GT-500s are not Mustang fans. They are speculators hoping to make a quick buck selling their GT-500s and this is what is driving up GT-500 prices. As soon as the GT-500 starts shipping you'll be amazed by how many of them show up for sale.

Any Mustang fan who buys a GT-500 at a significant premium over MSRP and hangs onto his GT-500 is going to be extrememly dissappointed when prices crash in a year. Paying way over MSRP will turn out to be nothing more than a foolish waste of $$. The only people left smiling will be the dealers who are actually able to sell their GT-500s with big markups.

I hate to tell you this, but for the majority of people buying vehicles, resale value is a MAJOR consideration. Depreciation is the largest cost in owning a vehicle. The poor resale value of American built vehicles is the primary reason why Ford and GM are sinking.

Click to expand...

Depreciation is why I will NEVER buy a new Mustang. How can American vehicle makers fight depreciation?

Founding Member

I say most of the people who are on dealer waiting lists for GT-500s are not Mustang fans. They are speculators hoping to make a quick buck selling their GT-500s and this is what is driving up GT-500 prices. As soon as the GT-500 starts shipping you'll be amazed by how many of them show up for sale.

Any Mustang fan who buys a GT-500 at a significant premium over MSRP and hangs onto his GT-500 is going to be extrememly dissappointed when prices crash in a year. Paying way over MSRP will turn out to be nothing more than a foolish waste of $$. The only people left smiling will be the dealers who are actually able to sell their GT-500s with big markups.

Click to expand...

I didnt word my statement correctly, Most of the people who'll trully want the car for what it is are generally not too concerned about resalve value, its only the individuals who you suggested the ones to make such a fuss about it. Unfortunately it looks like they may win in the short term in driving prices way out of proportion. Having said that I wouldnt mind paying a couple grand above sticker for the car within the first half a year considering most cars of this caliber and relatively limited availability dont necessarily sell below MSRP As soon as they hit the streets.. Only Ford 500s and Fusions sell below when they first come out, the demand isnt nearly as high.

enyawix said:

Depreciation is why I will NEVER buy a new Mustang. How can American vehicle makers fight depreciation?

Click to expand...

If people were too conserned with depreciation they shouldnt buy a new car period, 99.99 percent of cars will depreciate, its beyond me why people make such a big deal about it. Second if you truly are that worried, then you'd look into leasing instead of buying, that way you get the new car feel for cheaper in the long run.

In the last 5 years Ford has lost 8% market share while Toyota is now the largest auto company in the world and will soon be #1 in the US too.

Only so many people are going to buy Mustangs and Corvettes. If Ford sold only Mustangs and GM sold only Corvettes they would have gone out of business 30 years ago.

Click to expand...

Just wanted to make one correction to your comment, GM still holds the title for largest automaker in the world with Toyota second. They will gain that title probably in the next couple of years though unfortuantely. Also, toyota is 4th in the U.S. so they still have a little ways to go here....

I under stand what you are saying. I see a gap between resale of Imports vs a domestic. What is killing domestic resale? How would you rate the quality of a new Mustang against a import of the same price?

There are many things that make or break resale value, such as perceived quality, performance, durability, etc.

If there is one big factor that kills the resale value of Ford, GM & Chrysler vehicles it is the large # of vehicles they sell to fleet customers and especially rental companies.

Ford, GM & Chrysler all sell 25% - 30% of their cars to fleet customers. only 7% of Toyota sales are to fleet customers. These fleet cars are sold at very little profit and many analysts believe that vehicles sold to rental companies are sold at zero profit to a loss. The thought process is sell to the fleets at break even price and the extra volume will lower costs so more profit is made off retail customers.

But the big problem with fleet sales is the back end in 1 to 2 years when these fleet cars are dumped on the retail market at very low prices. This drives down the price of all used Fords, GMs and Chryslers. I know this game well as I used to get a brand new company Taurus every year. The sticker on my Taurus' usually ran around $22K. One year later I would buy my company Taurus for my wife and pay about $12K for it.

You hit the nail on the head 351CJ, however the problem with eliminating the fleet side is the US automakers need the volume to keep their plants/union workers gainfully employed. They have to negotiate every reduction in workforce and its just easier to pump out the volume even if it doesnt do much for the bottom line. Another maybe bigger obstacle is percetption, the buying public simply has more confidence in foreign made vehicles, IMO american manufacturers are meeting the quality/reliability standards of the competition however they are not always perceived that way.

Founding Member

You hit the nail on the head 351CJ, however the problem with eliminating the fleet side is the US automakers need the volume to keep their plants/union workers gainfully employed. They have to negotiate every reduction in workforce and its just easier to pump out the volume even if it doesnt do much for the bottom line. Another maybe bigger obstacle is percetption, the buying public simply has more confidence in foreign made vehicles, IMO american manufacturers are meeting the quality/reliability standards of the competition however they are not always perceived that way.

Click to expand...

I think the biggest problem is the perception. And it does not help any when they start adding large incentives. That just makes the person that bought it last year feel overcharged. And the person who might buy the used car buy new. Even further devaluing the used car.

You hit the nail on the head 351CJ, however the problem with eliminating the fleet side is the US automakers need the volume to keep their plants/union workers gainfully employed. They have to negotiate every reduction in workforce and its just easier to pump out the volume even if it doesnt do much for the bottom line. Another maybe bigger obstacle is percetption, the buying public simply has more confidence in foreign made vehicles, IMO american manufacturers are meeting the quality/reliability standards of the competition however they are not always perceived that way.

Click to expand...

I agree, selling to fleet customers is worse than being hooked on crack. Given the UAW contract, it is a better initial financial proposition to pump out more vehicles that you sell at no profit or at a modest loss than to put the workers in the job bank, pay them 90% pay and still have all the overhead costs of an idle factory.

However, this becomes a death spiral when those used fleet cars get dumped on the market in 1 - 2 years and then take away profitable new vehical retail sales.

Hey, I benefited greatly from this fleet deal. I'd by my old company Taurus for my wife and then a year or 2 later I'd sell it for close to what I paid for it. The only cost for getting my wife a 1 year old Taurus every year was the state sales tax and extra property tax. My gain turns out now to be Ford's loss.

I think the biggest problem is the perception. And it does not help any when they start adding large incentives. That just makes the person that bought it last year feel overcharged. And the person who might buy the used car buy new. Even further devaluing the used car.

Click to expand...

Yes preception is a big problem and widespread fleet & rental use of a given vehicle model creates a negative perception for that brand and model.

I used to offer to buy additional company fleet Taurus' for friends. The only people who ever took me up on my offer was my inlaws. They liked getting a year old Taurus at a bargain price every few years.

But all my friends are too uppity to drive a Taurus. One friend's wife summed it up. "I don't want a Taurus, every salesman in my neighborhood is driving one and every time I'm on a trip and rent a car I seem to end up with a Taurus. I want something else."

Well, I too was on the list for Shelby and I took myself right off at the advice of my dealer. I've had 8 Mustangs (three Cobras), an SVT Contour and a Lightning. This ain't my first rodeo.

The dealers advice... "I've never marked a car up over MSRP, but I'm getting calls from buyers offering 20k over, I'd be crazy not to take it. Wait a year or two until we can't get them off the lot in the fall". How can you blame the dealer for that? Morons are offering $60k for a Mustang?? Hello? Think of what kind of exotic used car you could get for that money?

In the interim, for much less money, Dodge in particular, Chevy and Pontiac area all making interesting, decent HP cars. Think Magnum, Charger (RT or SRT) Trailblazer SS and GTO. I hate to see Ford shoot themselves in the foot, but 33k buys a GTO or Magnum, equipped nicely. Not 500HP, but not 60k either.

I bought a Magnum, sorry Ford you just don't make a car that interests me right now. I've got 30k care free miles on the Magnum and Dodge has a new customer.

Well, I too was on the list for Shelby and I took myself right off at the advice of my dealer. I've had 8 Mustangs (three Cobras), an SVT Contour and a Lightning. This ain't my first rodeo.

The dealers advice... "I've never marked a car up over MSRP, but I'm getting calls from buyers offering 20k over, I'd be crazy not to take it. Wait a year or two until we can't get them off the lot in the fall". How can you blame the dealer for that? Morons are offering $60k for a Mustang?? Hello? Think of what kind of exotic used car you could get for that money?

In the interim, for much less money, Dodge in particular, Chevy and Pontiac area all making interesting, decent HP cars. Think Magnum, Charger (RT or SRT) Trailblazer SS and GTO. I hate to see Ford shoot themselves in the foot, but 33k buys a GTO or Magnum, equipped nicely. Not 500HP, but not 60k either.

I bought a Magnum, sorry Ford you just don't make a car that interests me right now. I've got 30k care free miles on the Magnum and Dodge has a new customer.

Click to expand...

You get what you PAY FOR man,,,
how can you compare an ugly stationwagon to a SHELBY? Are you out of your mind???
you know, you couldve saved half the money of that magnum and spent about $16000 on a nice LOADED 05 FRESSTAR?? thats more in the leauge of your station wagon than a SHELBY
Since the begining of time, the high demand has affected the price on anything , including cars.
and for thoe true Mustang fans, who have been waiting for a shelby, $60.000 on a SHELBY is much better deal than $25000 on a friggin TRAILBLAZER....

Well imo the new shelby looks too much like an 05-06 mustang, so the bottom line will be if ur willing to pay 30k more for 150 more hp then gophortit.

Click to expand...

I agree. The styling looks "too much" like a 05-06 Mustang. I'm sure glad that I already own a 2001 Mustang GT and a 2002 V6 Mustang for cars. The new 05 & 06 Mustang body style needs to be tailored a little bit to make it look nicer. I don't like the 05 & 06 Mustang body style like I do the 99-04 Mustang body style. Plus, the 02-04 Mustang Cobras were a lot more cheaper than the 07 Shelby Mustang and the Cobras came with 390hp stock. I wouldn't care spending an extra $25k-$30 for a Shelby just to get 50hp more. It aint worth the money.

Gasoline prices will eventually go to $4 a gallon and maybe $5 a gallon here in the U.S.. These overpriced Shelby Cobras will still be sitting on the Ford dealer lots when this happens. Then the dealers will mark down the prices and you will be able to buy the Shelby Cobra for a song and a dance. It's just a matter of time before this happens.

Founding Member

I agree. The styling looks "too much" like a 05-06 Mustang. I'm sure glad that I already own a 2001 Mustang GT and a 2002 V6 Mustang for cars. The new 05 & 06 Mustang body style needs to be tailored a little bit to make it look nicer. I don't like the 05 & 06 Mustang body style like I do the 99-04 Mustang body style. Plus, the 02-04 Mustang Cobras were a lot more cheaper than the 07 Shelby Mustang and the Cobras came with 390hp stock. I wouldn't care spending an extra $25k-$30 for a Shelby just to get 50hp more. It aint worth the money.

Click to expand...

50 hp more? Have you kept up with the news on this car? It's 110hp now that the official rating is out. The 03-04 Cobra's were MSRP'd at about $36k. I saw people paying $10k over for them when they came out. So Comparing the prices. 36 for the 03-04 vs $46 for the 07 =$10k. WWith mark-up for first year the difference becomes. $20k. Bu thonestly if you pay over msrp. Well I think you deserve what you get.

I could not agree more! I guess college would have been a good idea after all huh?

It is no different in GA, our local large dealer (Macon) has told me that they are expecting 3-5 and they won't even hit the lot... going straight to ebay auction! Am I whining, no! I just went to a small town dealer, talked to the owner, and am the only one on the list! Weve already placed the order (red hardtop), and waiting to see if they will get it. Ford told him it was a 75% chance, and we have not heard any different yet, but if he does get it, it's mine.
If I wanted a 100% chance, then I would have signed up for a list elsewhere and paid a $10-20k premium.

It is the same as any other limited vehicle. For instance, I visited a local dodge dealer in the past year, and they had the SRT-10 truck on the lot. Do you know what the last line on the sticker was?

DMU $10,000.00

It is clearly not just Ford, it is any limited edition performance car. If people didn't pay it, they wouldn't charge it.

For yet another example of absurdly high prices, check out the next Barrett's auction on the speed channel! An Eleanor clone for over $100,000????? I certainly wouldn't pay the price most of those cars are bringing, but my hats off to the people that will! The worked their A$$es off to get where they are, and they deserve whatever toys they want at whatever prices they want to pay! it just makes me work harder to try to keep up with them!

My understanding is the dealer buys the car from Ford. And essentially resells it back to the customer.

Click to expand...

EXACTLY! If this wasn't true, then why are some small-town dealers willing to sell for MSRP?

And just a few points about all this "It will never hold it's value cr@p"! First, I am pretty sure no one on this board can see into the future, second, it is probably the same thing that people said about the original Shelbys (when they couldn't afford them) and third, has anyone actually read the latest press release concerning the fact that the car will have 500 HP and 480 ft lbs of torque? Look down near the end of the article. It says that the rights to buy the first GT500 off the line were auctioned off recently. How much?

EXACTLY! If this wasn't true, then why are some small-town dealers willing to sell for MSRP?

And just a few points about all this "It will never hold it's value cr@p"! First, I am pretty sure no one on this board can see into the future, second, it is probably the same thing that people said about the original Shelbys (when they couldn't afford them) and third, has anyone actually read the latest press release concerning the fact that the car will have 500 HP and 480 ft lbs of torque? Look down near the end of the article. It says that the rights to buy the first GT500 off the line were auctioned off recently. How much?

I don't know about anyone else, but $50,000.00 is looking like a hell of a deal to me!!!

Click to expand...

I would rather buy a 2006 Mustang GT for $25k than spend $50k-$60k and get raped over a brand new Shelby. When there are unsold Shelbys sitting on the dealer lots due to the $4-$5 a gallon fuel prices, then the Ford dealers will want to get rid of them for cheap money. I remember back in the early and mid 1970's when gas guzzler American cars were sitting on the dealer lots and the dealers were giving them away with huge rebates. The same thing is going to happen with cars like the Shelby when gasoline prices reach $4 & $5 a gallon. You will be able to buy them for cheap money.

I certainly respect your comment, and if you would rather buy a 2006 GT for less money, then go ahead, that is the great thing about living in America. Me, I'd rather have the 500 HP for the extra money. I just don't think the price is that out-of-line with reality. Take a look at the few other American vehicles that come close to that - vette, viper, SRT10 truck, etc. they are all in that same price range or much higher. IMHO, it would be hard to buy a new GT and build it to the specs that the GT500 has for any less money than they are asking, and for the money you get something you could not get by doing it yourself, - Instant gratification

And as for the 70's gas guzzlers, you are probably right (i was only about 4 or 5 at the time), but look at what the real performance models are bringing now, they are certainly a slight bit higher than, say a Chevette . I would say the little bit they saved waiting out the dealers is insignificant now. And further, if gas prices do go to $4 or $5 dollars a gallon (which I fully expect they will, have you seen the prices in Europe?) then the muscle car will become a rather rare item indeed, and this should only help it's value when the great majority of vehicles for sale are hybrids.