I recently acquired some Mondako flour from NY Bakers and tried out a Midwestern thin crust recipe that I normally use. The final product came out fine, but nothing spectacular. I posted on the recent Shakey's thread that I would try the flour out on Lydia's RT clone recipe next time, and DNA Dan asked that I do take pictures when I did it. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,21474.msg225229.html#msg225229

Since I am using an RT clone recipe, I chose to post my results to this thread.

The recipe is one I have used many times, as originally provided by Lydia. It basically goes like this:

Part One:Dough PrepThe ingredients all go into a food processor. In my case, I have an 11-cup Cuisinart with a dough setting and dough blade. I turn it on to mix the dry ingredients and then slowly pour in the water from the top. After the water is in, I stir it up with a spatula and pulse it a few times to mix well. Once that is done, there are still some crumbs, but the whole thing basically gets poured into a used plastic commercial bread bag and allowed to sit for 1.5-2 hours at room temperature. Then, fold the dough lump 2-3 times and divide the big ball into thirds. Put the 3 dough balls into 3 separate plastic bread bags and place them in the refrigerator. I did all of this on a Saturday. Pics are below.

After being refrigerated about 24 hours, I took the dough balls in their bags out of the refrigerator and placed them on the counter at about 2:30 in the afternoon on Sunday to warm up to room temperature.

After 2.5 hours, I took the dough balls out of the bags and rolled each one out using a metal rolling pin with a little over a teaspoon of flour on the pie board to keep the dough from sticking. After rolling each ball out to a thin sheet, I place them one on top of the other on a wooden peel dusted with some semolina flour. Using a pizza screen as a template, I ran a pizza cutter around the edge to make a 14 inch circular crust and to seal the 3 sheets of dough together. Then I docked the dough.

The final product came out pretty well. Unfortunately, although the taste profile was very good, the texture was not. I wanted to cook this pizza on my 2stone grill device to get the best results from a heat perspective, but I ran out of propane during the heating up procedure of the 2stone, so I think I did not let it come up to temperature nearly enough before I placed the pizza in the 2stone. As a result, I ended up with a rather underdone underside. Basically, I pulled a Shakey's. That is to say, the pizza definitely needed some higher temps because the upskirt reminded me of my recent visit to Shakey's in Anaheim where they use a conveyor oven instead of a deck oven. The crust did puff up in some places, however, which is a visual sign that I use to tell me if I have replicated the RT pizza well or not. As a final act of desperation, I took one of the slices and placed it in my toaster oven, cranked up to high. The final result was excellent. It cooked the crust quite well so that now there was browning and a definite crispy texture to the entire crust (see final pic below). Consequently, I think this particular pizza may actually be better reheated with a toaster oven (or regular oven, no microwaves, please) rather than fresh.

Overall, the flavor profile was very good and I was generally pleased with the result. The Mondako performed admirably. It handled quite well while rolling it out. It would be nice to see what a true sheeter would do with this recipe (cue DNA Dan here). . I am going to keep experimenting with the remainder of my 5 lb. order of Mondako flour and will probably order it again at least one more time to put it through its paces. Whether it is truly worth the difference in price compared to Better for Bread flour, I am of the mind that I need more data to make a final conclusion.

Dough was crumbly with unincorporated flour. I had to wait for it to generate some moisture on the bag so I could fully incorporate it.

Really quick comment here.

Big Dave Ostrander had a very low hydration cracker crust formula (that I cant see to find now) on his personal site, where he specified that there "should be" dry unincorporated flour that would hydrate during the bulk rise.

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The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Unfortunately I don't actually know the brand of the bread flour. I get it out of the bulk section at our WinCo. I am going to try to get to our closest Cash & Carry or maybe Costco for future experiments. At lesat then I may have a better idea of what I am using.

My Winco carries flour from Dawn foods, Bob's Red Mill and Montana Wheat. I don't visit there often but if I do I will try to verify the bread flour.

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The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Big Dave Ostrander had a very low hydration cracker crust formula (that I cant see to find now) on his personal site, where he specified that there "should be" dry unincorporated flour that would hydrate during the bulk rise.

ME, nice looking pie. I'll have to try the ham bits on my next pie. I can give this a try on the sheeter but I need to get some harinda preparada. I have also been using my conveyor oven. I know a deck oven gives a slightly better performance, but it's just too much time and energy to heat the stone IMO. I can flip a switch on my conveyor and be ready to cook in 10 minutes. I know you've had bad experiences with pizzas cooked this way, but I think it's all in how closely one minds the conveyor. I have been producing some pretty crispy pies in mine. I'll post photos of the next experiment so you can see.

FWIW, the crumbly bits of flour point for Mondako is about 40% hydration. I just made a pie a few weeks ago in the other thread like this. It's interesting, because I find without a sheeter the hydration ratio really seems to matter. You have to be dry enough so the dough remains under-developed but not so dry that the dough is too stiff to roll by hand. With the sheeter, I have gotten good layering on lots of different flours ranging from 38-50% hydration.

Thank you Peter, yes this is exactly what I'm referring to. Dave's article was his FAQ was about 12 years ago. Yikes It was pretty thorough with plenty of helpful tips on dough management but when I found it it was a bit over my head. This was the first time I had heard the term "scrappy" dough".

« Last Edit: December 04, 2012, 09:42:35 PM by Lydia »

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The roundest knight at King Arthur's round table was Sir Cumference.They say he acquired his size from eating too much pi.

Thanks! As always, I give full credit where credit is due and I have immensely appreciated your time, efforts, and explanations of creating the home RT clone. It has been like manna from heaven for us.

Peter and Lydia: I agree about having unincorporated flour in the initial dough ball/mass.

Dan:

Generally speaking I am very weary and skeptical of conveyor pizza ovens. However, I have been to a few pizza restaurants that have used conveyor ovens and been quite pleased. In fact, one of my local favorite pizza places uses a conveyor oven to quite good effect: http://www.mafiamikespizzaks.com/They do a NY style that is VERY good, imo. So, they are out there, but depending on which model and what they have the heat set at, the good conveyor oven pizzerias are more the exception than the rule, from my personal experience. Incidentally, I used the ham bits because they needed to be used, but typically I would've used my old stand-by: Italian sausage. Also, I have played with Lydia's recipe on occasion and gone down to 48-50% hydration with no major issues. Basically, you can short the water to a straight 8 oz, or slightly less, and get to a lower hydration.

I tried the Lydia RT clone recipe again this past Sunday. Same recipe, except I ran out of the Quaker Harina Preparada, so I opted for an alternative: Wal-Mart's flour tortilla mix. I used the same recipe and 24 refrigerated dough as before. This time, however, I baked it on a baking stone in my home oven since it was too cold out to be cooking anything on my 2stone. I also went to my gold standard of Italian sausage (Simeca's) and mushrooms for toppings. Results were excellent! See pics below.

One thing I noticed about the Wal-Mart flour tortilla mix: the dough seemed wetter than when I have used the Quaker brand. Everything came out fine, but in the future I would recommend starting with no greater than 8 ounces of water instead of the 8.4 oz used in the original recipe.

Thanks again, that was on my "need to do list" as a cheaper alternative. It's good to know that is seems wetter.

You said the results were "great" but did you notice any difference or is it hard to tell since you baked in your home oven?

Did it develop flavor about the same?

Lydia:

Yes, this time the flavor AND the texture were there. It came out quite well. I let the stone heat up for 1 hour at 500 degrees in my oven before sliding the pizza on to it. The differences that I can tell you that come from using my 2stone vs. my home oven are with the 2stone:1. Cooks quicker (obviously)2. Crust is more done (browner, darker)3. More puffiness in the crust. In fact, I often have to watch it closely because some of the bubbles will get so huge they will rise to the upper stone of the 2stone and stick there, moving the toppings all to the side as it rises. Cool looking, but from an eating perspective, it's overkill. I have noticed both at Shakey's in Anaheim and at a Happy Joe's Pizza in Iowa City (similar style to Shakey's and Round Table) that with conveyor ovens and this type of pizza, there is one employee who watches the pizza through a slot in the conveyor and has a long metal rod which he/she will use to pop any bubbles that appear and get too big as the pizza passes through. Similarly, I really have to watch it on the 2stone.

I definitely recommend getting a bag of this Great Value stuff and playing around with the amount of water. It is definitely easier to obtain and cheaper than the Quaker alternative. Next time I make pizza I will probably be making a deep-dish for my family to provide some variety (plus deep-dish goes well in the winter time), but the next time I try the RT clone, I will cut back to 8 oz of water and go from there. Perhaps I will convert the English measurements to metric so I have more room to play with in terms of weights. I had no dry bits or clumps of flour this time, unlike when I normally use your clone recipe. The dough was quite wet, but I went ahead and it actually came out very well.

And Jason, if you can't find the Quaker Harina Preparada (I've had to order it directly from Quaker), the tortilla flour at Wal-Mart should work about as well as the Quaker brand. Just make sure it is NOT the corn tortilla flour - you want the Great Value Flour Tortilla Mix. Good luck!