Just in case someone doesn't know how this is relevant here, Falcon is a launch vehicle developed by SpaceX which is the other major tech-business for Elon Musk.

It is supposed to replace shuttles completely as NASA orbital launch vehicles. As a non-governmental company I think this is first in world history, and as such probably is a gateway to civilian space age.

There are others like Virgin Galactic that sell tickets to space, but those are more like very high-flying airplanes than actual space vehicles, they do not reach orbits (and orbital speeds), they just use very high ballistic trajectories. Maybe in (near) future there will be more that actually get to the orbit.

And you seem to be singularly uninformed about the history of Tesla Motors. It was founded by Martin Eberhard, but he pooched the finances and was eased (!?) out. The wiki article isn't bad; scroll down to "History and Financing": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Motors . Check the links and references, etc.

searcher | 13. Mai 2011

BrianH, Good to hear from you again. You are very correct I don't know anything about the Tesla Company history or the people who run it. Will get to work on informing myself. TCB

searcher | 15. Mai 2011

Kind of in reference to remark above about "civilian space age" did anyone see the documentary a couple of years ago about the history and future of aerial warfare where the Raptor and lot of other stuff was discussed and how warfare in space might be conducted.{Most likely on Military Channel, I forget}. Very,very, slow turns etc. Very different altogether than current 'dogfights". Actually hope space does not become weaponized but "humans being stupid" and "nations being stupid" I would venture to bet it will be weaponized. Like we didn't have more positive improvements to channel our energies and intellect into.

landon.bruno | 24. Mai 2011

Wow!! New Satellite. I hope it helps mankind. I really see NASA as an organization investing in something which is really not helpful. They should stop funding mars mission and focus on energy problems :)

searcher | 25. Mai 2011

I to, feel like the money could be spent "closer to home", so to speak. But at the same time as much as I hope I am wrong I think there has always been a substantial military componet cached in all the space stuff from "Sputnik" on. Or actually before "Sputnik". Unfortunate creatures that are, so often caught up in the "Romance of Warfare" as I am just as subject to this as most anyone else.

VolkerP | 26. Mai 2011

there is a relationship between the race to the moon and the cold war. Manned spacecraft were displayed as glorious scientific achievements. But in secrecy there were plans for manned military stations in orbit, armed with nuclear weapons. Soon it was discovered that operating such stations by remote control would be cheaper and easier, and ballistic missiles would be even better. Luckily, negotiations succeeded that banned militarization of space (to some degree). The shuttle program was developed and run with only a fraction of the resources (thus lacking a crew escape mechanism). It should demonstrate that the US have the capability to put massive payloads in near earth orbit on short hand, if required, by increasing the number of shuttles to dozens and launching every one in short intervals. This, as we all know, never happened. Now the shuttle is to be retired and NASA is in desperate search of a mission that would justify the significant cost: exploration and colonization of Mars.

Timo | 26. Mai 2011

Space exploration and research is pretty much necessity for humankind long time survival. It takes only one big meteorite to wipe out our entire civilization, but we are now in edge of being able to prevent that impact. The sooner that capability is realized the better. One of the most important thing we just have to do is tracking near earth objects, NASA NEO program: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/

Also once we get real space business running (IE, not government funded space exploration, but private business) there is a lot of resources there for humankind to exploit. Rare minerals to mine, unlimited solar energy and just plain tourism (who wouldn't pay few bucks to experience weightlessness?).

We are already capable of doing much more than we do, what we lack is motivation. Money as motivation has its limits (capitalism) and government dictated goals is even worse (communism). If we really wanted we could "terraform" Sahara, end world hunger, give everyone real healthcare etc. in single lifetime. In general people are morons. We fight for religion, money etc. irrelevant and just plain stupid things, and it doesn't seem to get any better soon.

If someone someday invents a way to motivate people to do good things in a way that doesn't include beliefs without foundation and/or exploitation of personal greed that day we become a true civilization, not just bunch of caveman with few technological gizmos.

If that would hit it would equal about 20 million one megaton nuclear bombs. The one used in Hiroshima was 15 kiloton.

That is not the only one, there are many more and some a lot closer, just not any big ones (that we have detected).

Timo | 26. Mai 2011

Make that 1.4 x 10^14 kg.

searcher | 26. Mai 2011

Timo, You make a convincing case for going on with the space program. I am with you on the reasons. Tell me how would meteoroites{sp} be delat with most likely exploding them in deep space or some sort of gravitational manuevering? Solar mining I especially liked.

Tou seem like many others to be interested in a better civilization as am I. Let me ask you a question, do you think all this "just happened" out of some "primordial slime" or do you think their was a creator or creative force behind it all. I will agree with you we are in many cases very stupid, and selfish. Presuming for a moment you were the creator force looking down at the "blue planet" how would you change things probably most effectively. Possibly change the thinking of all the little ants running arund on the blue planet in their heart and emotions or some other more techno way?

Vawlkus | 26. Mai 2011

Go read Larry Nivens book "Fallen Angles".

searcher | 26. Mai 2011

Timo, I had to cut my last post short because of a nearby thunderstorm. But wanted to tell you that the order you requested is probably a bit much for us "primitives, with a small amount of techno gizmos" but we are let in on the action of the "Creator God" by a seemingly small thing to many. That being the prayer "Thy will be done n earth as it is in heaven". But this requires that we accept the existence and faith in the "Creator God". Otherwise it doesn't get pass the ceiling of our rooms. So I would recommend as I have in the past that you, read, read, read, the scriptures as I gurantee the words themselves have a supernatural effect on your being. All the things you mentioned as to better civilization will eventually come to pass in the "fullness of time". More so than has ever entered the human mind.

I know there are a lot of schisms, wars, atrocities, and many other bad things going on now as they have for thousands of years but you must remember there is a great "spiritual warfare" going on and it has not come to culmination yet. But will at the end of the "milleneal kingdom" after the battle of the "little season". Bet you never heard of that have you?

You know we have gone over all this before and I have tried to reserve myself in expressing these issues in this venue but you make allussions with statements such as "beliefs without foundations" which is provocative and objectional to me as probably many others. Much like you were trying to push or enforce point though on this issuse.

I would request that we not provoke each other as this is not venue for that unless we would be allowed to carry it out in it's full ramifications in "Esoteric EV Ramblings"

And to Vawlkus I will immediately google up his suggested reading, hope it supports my position. I also know a book that is filled with facts about "fallen angels" one in particular. It is called "The Holy Bible" and I would recomend the 1611 KJV. The Elizebethen english is very beautiful, if at times a little hard to understand. But as the great american wit "Will Rogers" said "it's not what I don't understand about the bible that bothers me but what I do understand" Very gracious wishes to all.

Timo | 26. Mai 2011

IMO religion == stupidity. Here. You got your answer.

Tiebreaker | 27. Mai 2011

Ah for the love of humanity!!!

Tiebreaker | 27. Mai 2011

That was for searcher:

Ah for the love of humanity!!!

Wrong forum, web site and audience.

Brian H | 27. Mai 2011

Given time and distance, even very large asteroids etc. can be maneuvered and deflected with persistent small pushes, like a small robot nuclear or solar powered mass driver or ion engine, or even precise "painting" of part of the surface with white paint to change the pressure of solar radiation, etc.

As for mining, a 1-mi diameter nickel-iron asteroid in accessible Earth orbit would readily yield as much precious metal ore as has been mined groundside in all history. At current prices, worth about $1M per capita for the whole planet, or around $7 quadrillion. ($7 x 10^15). That would make even Obama's deficits pocket change by comparison.

Brian H | 27. Mai 2011

Timo;
SpaceX has been awarded a $75 million contract to complete development of the Dragon escape and crew system. It's a dual-purpose integral reusable design, built in to the walls, with the thrusters used for maneuvering and landing.http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20110419

searcher | 27. Mai 2011

Tiebreaker, You msy think my remarks were wrong website,forum, and audience. If you will refer back to Timos comments about "beliefs without foundation" and "IMO Religion = stupidity". I would submit that he chose wrong website, forum, and audience{even if there may only been audience of one} was just as innappropiate as mine. And please note "he went first". As I told Timo he has a perfect free will to beieve what he wants to if this were not true it would be a robotic response as it stands it is a human heartfelt response enjoyed by millions upon millions everyday.

IMO Godless, Hopelesness,= unlearned wisdom for lack of reading or to put it another way stupidity. And here you got your answer too,Timo

Vawlkus | 28. Mai 2011

While in my book religion = fanatics with a warped view of what their deity of choice "demands"

As I said before searcher, go read Larry Nivens book "Fallen Angles". It's not religious, it's science fiction, a genre I find more and more truth in the older I get.

Oh, and here's a tidbit for you searcher: who wrote your bible? Think on that, before you post a reply.

searcher | 28. Mai 2011

Vawlkus, I read your post with a good feeling because it gives me a chance to relate some things without trying to push something on someone. Sincerely, thanks for the post. I did google the book you referenced. You know I think some science fiction writers are being influenced some by themes that come out of the scriptures these days whether they are aware of it or not. Sure it is an interesting read but my favorite read other than the bible is "biographies".

First off, in my book, my faith is mine probably dictated much by geographical fortune of place of birth. The only demand {no not demand but rather plea is that I put my confidence in the finished work of God at Calvary. I would be hopeless if I had to meet any demands. He helps me act in way pleasing to himself through totally his work and me just allowing and opening myself up to his will fully explained in scriptures. As far as as the different religions of the world,the schisms, and so different variations passiontly held by the different peoples of the world. I absolutely can not answer the why of this. Although I am sure there are more studied people who can. If a person is truly wondering about how their could be so many variations globally I can only say do "comparative religion" studies on a global basis the underlying histories, influences, prominent characters in their development and then if they want to decide on one for themselves then they will possibly be in a position to make a very informed decision. Which of course few, if any, really do this. Just a response of mine as to why so many different ones. Of course the will in the scritures sometimes may include discipline just as a loving father would do, all for my eventual good. Not just an all positive gospel but both positive and negative in relation to Gods attributes, know this may sound contridictary but it's not if studied out.

If you like science fiction, and you haven't already, I would suggest you get into the scriptures along with some good extra reading from writers such as Dr. David Jerimiah, Dr. Adrian Rogers, Dr. Charles Stanley, Dwight Pentacost {Things to Come}, Hal Lindsey of which I am sure you have read. Cotact Pensacola Bible College and Dallas Seminary and am sure they could suggest a reading list that may even dim some of your favorite sci-fi. A lot of people equate portions of scripture with scince fiction anyway I have the feeling,ha. But some fascinating reads out there however since I retired I seem to have actually less time to read. Just basically stick to the old KJV mostly and get my news off satelite{sp} radio. An intriguing little website is www.chicktracts.com you can read the little info booklets right online, cover many, many, areas. Even the comparative religions I have discussed. From childrens level all way through adult level reading, graphics a little elementary at times, but some graphics are excellent. Also you might want to check into the christian manga comics. I haven't yet but plan to. Exciting for young adults and adults alike I believe. Also get from Dallas Seminary a good study guide to Revelations {you talking about science fiction, if you like sci-fi you got to love this, talk about action adventure}.

In fact bet some similar themes in "Fallen Angels" in the materials I have mentioned above.

As far as who wrote the bible I believe in the Plenary Verbally Inspired Word of God. Go look this up and you will know who I believe wrote the Bible and the methodology emplyed over thousands of years and the complete harmonics of the writings, indeed a supernatural feat. Use some of the same refence points I mentioned above but if you could find some tapes or books by author named John Danish, he is outstanding in this area.

Wanted to mention to in passing upon reflection ths morning, it has occured to me that a lot of bad stuff has ben perpertrated by "Godless" governments and regimes. Of course excluding the varios atocities that have been done in the name of religion. But some of the self proclaimed "Godless" ones have done much harm here to. But all that will be sorted out when it comes time to seperate the "wheat from the chaff".

In passing just wanted to ask one thing about current sci-fi. Are "super natural" elements bing introduced into current writings or has all reference to "super natural" been brainwashed out of our mental reference over the past several decades of "secular humanism" being imposed on us by our public education system.

If so I suggest we all go back and reinvestigate and research "supernatural". To me the definition is somethine that actually happens but that my finite mind can't comprehend it but it has happened, can happen, and will happen. Whether I understand it doesn't change the facts. For example Jesus first miricle at the "Wedding at Canna" where the water was changed to wine was probably a very scientific event I just don't know how in the world it was done but it was in fact done. A lot of scripture hinges on this and we just have to realize the finite ability of our minds ,although for somewhat arrogant types this may be an affront.

Thanks so much for giving me the opening to discuss some of these issues. Since some discussions seem to take a theological turn, which is interweaved with everything so in a real since. Maybe we could start a thread to take all such discussion to this thread and not interfer with Ev's in other threads. Seems the theology is hard to avoid, which is probably a very good thing. Kindest Regards

Timo | 28. Mai 2011

I have read few chicktracts. They are fun to read, genuinely comical material, they are so far off the reality. Only the very gullible and ignorant can take them seriously. I urge people to read them, they give more educated persons a good view of how dangerous religion can be.

Rest was TLDR. Enough for me about this subject.

searcher | 28. Mai 2011

Timo, Sure some chick tracts may have their limitations but the underlying issues are presented soundly. Some are actually meant to be entertaining and informative. I am sure you can overcome the TLDR if you put your self to it. Try it, think you may be challenged and intrigued. We all have to be careful not to be vain in our own conceits. I am sure you have heard of educated foolish persons and foolish persons is putting it politely. You have obviously read and studied deeply in many disciplines , give this one a try. I listed some good sources for reference materials. Please answer this if you will. What is your current take on how all this highly organised universe came into being, happenstance, creative intellegience, or what. If creative intelligence did this intelligence have any shall we say "imperatives" or was it just there with no particular good or bad aspect, was their any differentaton at this level? Just briefly would like to know if you have a current take on this? Also would like to know if you think somethings, we in our finite mental capabilities would be safe in ascribing something although very scientific, just beyond our grasp with our obviously universally limited capabilities. If so would you ascribe to this as possibly "supernatural", or would your concept be supernatural just doesn't exist in the universe.

Glad you enjoyed the chick tracts. know theres more stuff out there that would be more of an intellectual stretch for you, thus possibly more interesting. If you feel religion is your intellectual enemy, study and know your enemy.

Thanks for taking the time to reply. Kindest regards

Brian H | 28. Mai 2011

V;
I was going to ask you if "Larry Niven[']s book "Fallen Angles" was about the geometry of collapsed arches (flat feet), but I see searcher did correct the spelling. ;)

Brian H | 28. Mai 2011

Reminds me of the famous comment by Pope Gregory (6th C.) when the tall, fair Angles slaves from the new colony, Britain, began showing up amidst the short, squat, ugly Romans: "Non Angles, sed angels."

Vawlkus | 29. Mai 2011

Actually Brian, either spelling works for the subject material. Give it a read and see.