Jack White discussed his upcoming album Boarding House Reach in a new interview with Rolling Stone. He revealed that one of its songs, “Over and Over and Over,” dates back 13 years. He says that he not only attempted to record it with his bands the White Stripes and the Raconteurs, but also during a scrapped collaborative project with JAY-Z. “It was sort of my white whale,” he said about the track. “I chased it and chased it, and finally, all of a sudden, it worked.” In 2014, White mentioned that he’d recorded several songs with JAY-Z that never saw the light of day: “I’m not sure he liked them.” Read the full interview at Rolling Stone.

Elsewhere in the conversation, White says that he recruited musicians for the new album whom he’d seen play with Kanye West, Kendrick Lamar, JAY-Z, and more. He also talks about plans for his upcoming tour (which will be 100% “phone-free”) and his disdain for playing festivals.