"1 Student Killed, 7 Injured In Colorado School Shooting"

Officials say one student is dead and seven students were injured in a shooting at a public charter school in Highlands Ranch, Colo., a suburb south of Denver.

In a tweet, the Douglas County Sheriff's Office said the deceased was an 18-year-old student at the STEM School.

"It is with extreme sadness that we can confirm that 1 student at the STEM School was killed in today's #stemshooting incident. The immediate family has been notified. Douglas County Coroner Jill Romann (who) has not officially identified the student is stating it's an 18 year old male," the tweet said.

No information was available about the seven other victims.

Two suspects are currently in custody. Douglas County Sheriff Tony Spurlock said one suspect is an adult male and the other is a juvenile male. Both are students at the STEM School. Spurlock said their names are being withheld pending further investigation. The suspects were not previously known to local law enforcement.

"This is a terrible event. This is something that no one wants to have happen in their community," Spurlock said in a press conference late Tuesday afternoon. "Two individuals walked into the STEM school, got deep inside the school and engaged students in two separate locations."

One student has been killed and seven injured in a school shooting at STEM School Highlands Ranch in Colorado.
John Leyba/Denver Post via Getty Images

"We do have eight students in area hospitals right now. Several of them are in critical condition," he added.

All of the victims are 15 years and older.
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How long has it been since the last school shooting? Six days ago in Charlotte? 1

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"If we're not supposed to dance, why all this music?" Gregory Orr

This is pretty much in my neighborhood, one of the Redder areas of otherwise deep Blue Denver Metro. Douglas County also lost a deputy a couple New Years Days ago. And of course there was Columbine, which was Jefferson County but Littleton is in Jefferson as well as Douglas county. Seems like there was some other shoot em up out this way. Aurora is to the north east of here--that's just crazy town. You want to get plugged up close and personal with a handgun in a deal gone bad, then you want Aurora.

I seem to recall from my Sunday School days you pray for the strength to endure, not for protection. After some thoughts, I guess the reality is praying for the strength to endure the heartbreak of this kind of crap is the best anyone can hope for. Sucks. I've got one senior graduated early this year, and another set to walk in a couple weeks. Then the schools are someone else's problem.
9

OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Some people, not everyone, but a significant number of people feel powerful with a firearm in their hand. They like that feeling of power. A tactical knife or something like that can give a similar feeling of power but to a much much lesser degree.

But, in real life, without the gun in their hand, the cold hard truth might be that they are not actually so cool, powerful and almighty. In fact, they may be thought of by their classmates as losers.

Why do the people at school make them feel like losers when they are actually so cool and powerful??? A big question.

I don't get out much, so this is a genuine question. Do other countries place as much emphasis as we do on the importance of self as opposed to community? Because, yes, guns make it real easy to get up to shenanigans, but what I want to know is what makes people want to do this stuff in the first place? What sorts of people do this? And what are they needing from the rest of us that they're not getting?
19

OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Killing people without a gun is harder than killing people with a gun. Killing multiple people is even harder. And certain guns are more effective at killing in different circumstances. That's one of the reasons why so many gun-owners want them for self-defense -- it's easier to kill a potential murderer/rapist with a gun than without one.

At a minimum, other civilized societies don't glorify gun ownership, don't put it on equal footing with other personal rights and freedoms, and don't canonize it as an inviolate part of their civil/constitutional law.
21

I don't get out much, so this is a genuine question. Do other countries place as much emphasis as we do on the importance of self as opposed to community? Because, yes, guns make it real easy to get up to shenanigans, but what I want to know is what makes people want to do this stuff in the first place? What sorts of people do this? And what are they needing from the rest of us that they're not getting?

The USA is messed-up because we highlight and celebrate violence, narcissism, and a quick (my words) "fuck you", more than we value any sense of community or civility. We love shoot-em-up movies, shoot-em-up TV shows, shoot-em-up reality shows, etc. We fucking love watching folks putting holes in bitches and/or the aftermath of solving the criminal case(s) surrounding it. Itís easily monitized entertainmentÖ never mind that itís obscene and quite misanthropic.
23

More important than the media, I'm wondering if our elected officials will start acting any differently. Is Mitch going to miraculously grow a conscience and put the background check bill on the floor to a vote, finally?
24

"We are deeply sorry any part of this vigil did not provide the support, caring and sense of community we sought to foster and facilitate and which we know is so crucial to communities who suffer the trauma of gun violence," the statement said.

[QUOTE=QuickSilver;21634944]At a minimum, other civilized societies don't glorify gun ownership, don't put it on equal footing with other personal rights and freedoms, and don't canonize it as an inviolate part of their civil/constitutional law./QUOTE]

This. Guns in the United States are a constitutional good thing. They're on par with freedom of speech, freedom of religion, due process and equality.

No other country elevates gun ownership as a prized constitutional value in the same way.

That constitutional value inevitably influences the political and public discussion in the US in a way that is not found in other countries.
28

__________________
"I don't like to make plans for the day. If I do, that's when words like 'premeditated' start getting thrown around in the courtroom."

OK, for arguments sake, we ban all guns everywhere. Every single gun is now gone.

How does that prevent a student from killing another?

Warning: Musing ahead.

I used to watch Kids in the Hall when it was on TV, and one of their regular bits was the Head Crusher. Just a weird dude who would hide in bushes and, using a trick of perspective, "crush" people's heads by pinching his fingers.

It occurred to me, at some random point, how frightening it would be for this creepy dude to actually have the superpower of crushing people's heads with his little trick. He's there behind a bush saying "I'm crushing your head!" and people on the sidewalk are dropping dead.

It then occurred to me, WTF is the difference between this dude's "superpower" of killing a person with a pinch of his finger, and just some asshole with a gun?

Back to Magiver, how does it prevent one student from killing another? It takes away their superpowers. They can no longer kill a person with the twitch of a finger, they have to work at it. Killing a person when you don't have a gun is surprisingly difficult. With a gun, literally anyone who can operate a trigger can kill the most badass commando on the planet in the blink of an eye.
29

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.
31

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

Damn, wrong forum. Gun Control is not a liberal/conservative thing. Nice try though. Go back to Russia.
32

Democrats and liberals want to take power from the masses and hand it over to the elite who they believe know best. They rejoice every time there is school shooting because it's an opportunity to seize power and affirm their self perceived moral and intellectual superiority.

But of course you know that moral and intellectual superiority lies at the operating end of a gun. As demonstrated in these types of... what would you call them... expressions of rights and freedom?
34

I donít think thatís a bad thing. The sensational media coverage of school shootings were one of the reasons they became so common. Every malcontent knew he had his forum and he knew how society would react.
35

And a read of this shows that only 3 of these are what most people mean when they say "school shootings". This list includes a kid on a bus getting hit with a stray bullet from a drive by shooting, a drug deal gone wrong on school property, and a kid nicked by a pellet gun. None of these are what people think of as a "school shooting".

If you can't even be honest about the problem, why should anyone listen to your solution?
36

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There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

I am in absolute agreement with you. These people deserved a little private time to grieve before politics and advocacy groups got involved.

As an aside, how much time for private grief and consolation do you feel is appropriate to give to gun rights advocates after such incidents? Just a ballpark figure.

I don't think it is so much how much time is elapsed, as the venue. Turning a vigil into a rally is kind of crass.

Back when Paul Wellstone, the Senator from Minnesota, was killed in a plane crash, a public occasion to memorialize him turned into a full-throated political rally. The governor at the time, Jesse Ventura, who is/was neither Democrat nor Republican, mentioned that it was in poor taste. Not that he was renowned for his tact and discretion, but even he knew that there is not only a time but a place for such things.

Inviting students to a vigil, and then springing a political rally on them to use them for an agenda, is neither the time nor the place. As I said, the Brady Campaign at least had the grace to apologize.

I don't think it is so much how much time is elapsed, as the venue. Turning a vigil into a rally is kind of crass.

Generally true. But when a problem gets big enough, and I think with attacks on schools we've gotten to that point, the elephant at the vigil is everyone is shocked (because it's still shocking, thankfully) but nobody is truly surprised anymore. We all know the next one is already in the mail, we just don't know where it's been sent.

So with that, it can be reasonably argued NOT turning a vigil into a rally to prevent more vigils is the shameful course. The dead kids, they're not victims anymore. They're casualties in a one-sided war.
39

I would like to know why the kids get so violent and enraged that they would go out and shoot each other in school in the first place. I mean HS doesnt last forever. Even the worse aholes in school will be gone someday. Heck the 2 kids who did Columbine were seniors and it was just a few weeks before graduation.

Yeah back when I was in HS I hated some people and if I saw them today I'd probably do something bad but never go so far as to kill anyone or do something that would jeopardize my future.

And the shooters know damn well they will either die doing this or go to prison for life. What would make a person do something so stupid?
40

I donít think thatís a bad thing. The sensational media coverage of school shootings were one of the reasons they became so common. Every malcontent knew he had his forum and he knew how society would react.

Well, good news, soon they'll become so commonplace that nobody will do them.
41

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Don't worry about the end of Inception. We have top men working on it right now. Top. Men.

Back to Magiver, how does it prevent one student from killing another? It takes away their superpowers. They can no longer kill a person with the twitch of a finger, they have to work at it. Killing a person when you don't have a gun is surprisingly difficult. With a gun, literally anyone who can operate a trigger can kill the most badass commando on the planet in the blink of an eye.

OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

How does the student get to school?

Are you trying to make a point that cars can be deadly? If so, then we don't need guns. Guns serve no purpose, apparently, since it's so easy to kill!

Or maybe we can talk like adults, and recognize that guns really do make it easier to kill (especially kill specific targets!), and different kinds of guns can be more or less effective in different circumstances. Which doesn't necessarily mean we should ban them, but at least we can recognize that certain tools (like guns) are better at certain things (like killing the people in a school that a deranged person might hate), and it's reasonable to talk about the availability of such deadly tools.
44

OK, you've taken away the superpower to kill with a twitch of a finger.

How does the student get to school?

Walk, take the bus, take a cab, carpool, bike, skateboard...wait! Of course! I bet you are going to talk about the infamous Missoula Montana Mazda Massacre, where the lone student driver drove from room to room to room, running over 6 teachers and 17 students before being stopped by a spike strip in the third floor teacher's lounge.
45

Well, that's the thing - of course you can't use a car to go from room to room and kill a bunch of people. (You can drive it into a crowd, though, which we have seen numerous times recently.) Yeah, cars account for only the tiniest percentage of malicious homicide, as compared to firearms. But they account for more deaths.

Are deaths from shootings a greater hardship on society than death from cars? It's not a rhetorical question, I actually don't know the answer. Maybe they generate more fear because they garner coverage in the media. But the widows and orphans are still widows and orphans.

We could probably cut driving deaths in half by requiring all drivers to use a manual car unless physically unable to do so. Having to control a clutch and a shifter makes it a hell of a lot less likely to be distracted on your phone, or to zone out and lose control. But "we've decided" that this is unfeasible, just like "we've decided" that banning guns is unfeasible.
46

Walk, take the bus, take a cab, carpool, bike, skateboard...wait! Of course! I bet you are going to talk about the infamous Missoula Montana Mazda Massacre, where the lone student driver drove from room to room to room, running over 6 teachers and 17 students before being stopped by a spike strip in the third floor teacher's lounge.

No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.
47

No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.

No, I think the topic is more serious than your sarcasm indicates. I was going to point out that in a gun free city such as London people still murder each other. You forgot about the incident where 8 people were killed by being run over or stabbed.

The change in methodology didn't alter the intent or the outcome of the London attack. What is relevant to point out is the tool that ended the attack was a gun.

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