Chat replay: A conversation about the Packard plant

Free Press staffers who have been closely following the Packard Plant's sale took questions from readers about the site.

@rodney I don't want you to think I'm out here trying to run a smear campaign on the Packard. But have you walked through it lately? I'm a building-hugger. I'd love to see it saved. However, as someone who lives in Detroit, I'm tired of it giving my city a bad name, risking people's lives, stretching our fire department's tight resources, etc. There are bridges between buildings that collapsed (from scrapping) into the middle of the road YEARS ago. It's a lawless war zone, basically. If someone wants to save it, great. But it has to be a realistic plan - and we can't wait another 50 years for it to happen.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:46:16 PM

@Chris Zadorozny - I always kind of thought that, if the area were also on the upswing, it could be turned into a kind of retail district, almost like an Eastern Market but with more traditional shops. Outdoor walking malls connecting ground-floor retail and second-and-third-floor lofts and apartments

by Matthew Kilburn11/1/2013 4:46:20 PM

Okay, some say Tesla is going to be a powerhouse for EV's - if they every stop there batteries from burning up. Why not a proving ground for Tesla.

by Art Deco11/1/2013 4:46:34 PM

hmmm, 35 acres, how about a cedar point detroit.

by Art Deco11/1/2013 4:46:51 PM

@ArtDeco: It would be pretty great to see Elon Musk tour the Packard plant

by J.c. Reindl11/1/2013 4:48:07 PM

@ Dan Austin: I do not think you are running a smear campaign, just want to get some things straight. I have driven a vehicle with 10,000 plus pounds to the third floor of the building.

by rodney jackson11/1/2013 4:48:17 PM

@rodneyjackson You clearly have not visited the site recently or have seen recent photos of the deplorable condition of the Packard Plangt

by RogerDetroit11/1/2013 4:48:22 PM

@ Mathew Kilborn: Structure is not compromised. I have driven a vehicle loaded with more than 10,000 pounds into the building. Albert Kahns 'Truss Kahn" or "Kahn Bar" System was being developed on this project and in its early stage was highly over engineered. Albert and his brother Julius developed the system along with others that can be seen on site. From who are we getting information that the Packard is structurally compromised?

by rodney jackson11/1/2013 4:48:37 PM

Chris, that's a really hard question. As someone said earlier, the decay of the plant has so impacted the neighborhood around it that it's hard to say what would be best suited to the area. While it's nice to think about shopping, retail or residential there, it's kind of a chicken or the egg situation. That kind of development would be great for residents, but there would have to be more residents there to support that kind of development.

Last fall, Freep reporters asked the Packard Plant's neighbors what they'd like to see at the site. Here's what they said: www.freep.com

by Nancy Kaffer11/1/2013 4:48:56 PM

@ArtDeco When Packard was in business and land was cheap they went out to Utica to build their Proving Grounds on 540 acres. So 35 acres here is NOT practical.

by RogerDetroit11/1/2013 4:49:01 PM

@Matthew: Once we start seeing more stable areas elsewhere coming around, that might happen, but I can't see that happening in Packardtown in my lifetime. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but Detroit is SOooooooooooOOOOOOooo big, and the area around the Packard is pretty, well, bad, for a lack of a better word.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:49:22 PM

@ Dan Austin: Agreed on best uses. We need some rough numbers on the infrastructure work needed in the immediate area to get things back online and who pays. Grant-worthy?

@Joe: I think in a city with such finite resources - a city in bankruptcy, I should say - you have to focus every precious penny where it will do the most good. As an advocate for downsizing the city, I say you focus any such grant money at areas like SW Detroit or far east side, where people still live, work and play. The Packardtown area is just a DMZ, sadly.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:52:06 PM

Like I said, look at the pictures. You can see the stalactites that have formed from the calcite speepage through the concrete. Add in the number of tree roots that are growing through the structure, the number of chemicals that have been left to absorb in - there's a reason whole sections are falling away

by Matthew Kilburn11/1/2013 4:52:26 PM

Bull doze it all, do all the hazardous material cleanup, then turn it into a large urban farm

by DonInAK11/1/2013 4:52:42 PM

Just heard back from the Treasurer's office: As of 12:47, no deposit money yet from Hults

by J.c. Reindl11/1/2013 4:53:31 PM

As long as Detroit is bringing in new people with vision, capital, and experience, I am excited however it ends up.

by backwoods edited by Jewel Gopwani11/1/2013 4:53:48 PM

@Dan Austin- Are you skeptical of any plan involving saving the building? If so whats the biggest impediment to any plan? The structure or now fragmented nature of the structure? The neighborhood? Costs of hazard clean-up?

by hans11/1/2013 4:54:02 PM

Here's the thing about a plant like this: While it's true that Kahn used steel-reinforced concrete on the Packard, cracks from neglect, scrapping, etc., can compromise that steel. In other words, it can rust inside the concrete. You would have to do core samples on every column and possibly replace the steel in said concrete tomb. Not cheap. Or easy.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:54:08 PM

@ Roger Detroit: I have put on an exhibition in Building 11 on Grand and toured people through the build dispelling the myths and misinformation that blinds the general public. I driven, walked, filmed, photographed, and illuminated the potential for this monolith of history. Don't be fooled.

by rodney jackson11/1/2013 4:54:10 PM

That has to be our last question. If you have any last comments, we'll include them before 1 pm.

by Jewel Gopwani11/1/2013 4:54:55 PM

@DanAustin I used that Not-in-my-life-time quote too, and I'll bet you are a lot younger than me

by RogerDetroit11/1/2013 4:54:58 PM

Detroit looks like a post war zone

by DonInAK11/1/2013 4:55:44 PM

@JC I think he's still working on it. The 79 cents in change on my nightstand mysteriously disappeared overnight. :)

by John Richards11/1/2013 4:55:45 PM

@hans: I think you might be able to save a building here and there, but you're talking about, what? Forty buildings? $20M here, $30M there times 40 is pricey. Best case? A new developer saves one or two of the best structures and incorporates it into the plans. Can't narrow it down to one, single, biggest impediment: Size or scope of the project, condition, location, demand ... take your pick, cuz they're all HUGE deterrents to saving the Packard.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:56:05 PM

@ Dan Austin and the rest: Thanks for providing this forum. It is very important and appreciated!

by rodney jackson11/1/2013 4:56:21 PM

A question from Facebook...Bryan Verhelle asks: Lake Packard?

by Jewel Gopwani11/1/2013 4:56:41 PM

can't we all just get along?

by DonInAK11/1/2013 4:57:02 PM

Thanks, J.C., Nancy and Dan. Thanks to our readers for your great questions.

by Jewel Gopwani11/1/2013 4:57:29 PM

Thanks to everyone for making the time to chat with us today!

by Nancy Kaffer11/1/2013 4:57:35 PM

@DonInAK But not ALL of Detroit looks like the Packard Plant, Don. We're a huge city. Indian Village, Corktown, University District, Palmer Woods, etc. share as much in common with the Packard area as the Packard does with Alaska.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:57:36 PM

Supply and demand. Return on investment. Cost of doing business. All the basics. Does anyone really think a "Build it and they will come" will work when the city hasn't defined itself yet?

by Bob11/1/2013 4:58:28 PM

Always happy to answer questions about Detroit history and architecture. If you've got others, feel free to "like" HistoricDetroit.org on Facebook and Twitter, and ask questions there: www.facebook.com

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 4:59:31 PM

Thanks for the forum!! To end this on a lighter note... Who'd want the site? It must be possessed by evil spirits. What else could possibly explain seemingly rational people to bid so irrationally?

by John Richards11/1/2013 5:00:05 PM

@Dan- I couldnt agree more, tragic but its a reality. I am taking a wait and see approach for the Peruvian gentleman. I just wonder WHY? Thanks for your replays...

by hans11/1/2013 5:00:14 PM

@hans Trust me, you're not the only one wondering what they're drinking down in Peru.

by Dan Austin11/1/2013 5:00:42 PM

Hans, we see your last question but have to wrap up. Please send me your email address, and we'll see if we can find an answer: jgopwani@freepress.com

Thanks again everyone. This was so successful, we may do this again as news develops. Keep an eye out on Freep.com.