Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Are there actually people out there who enjoys the smell of feces? I noticed that some fragrances and oil (such as oud) that have the fecal smell that some people love so much. Oud is not cheap either. What is it in human that enjoy the smell of waste?

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

A nose unsophisticated to certain notes, such as certain ouds, civet, or castoreum (among others) may interpret these notes as 'fecal' because this may the closest aroma they recognize. A similar phenomena occurs when one can't recognize floral notes and will then associate them with smells they know (such as 'soapy'). Once you're acclimatized to these smells you realize that they don't actually smell fecal, but rather they have unique aromas that have little to do what how you once associated them. I'm not aware of a single fragrance that actually has a true fecal smell, even if that's a common descriptor. It's with notes and accords such as these with which you shouldn't necessarily judge or assess a fragrance based on what you smell digging your nose into your wrist. Many fragrances are designed to be smelled when worn and the fragrance will smell quite different from how it smells up close. An oud, civet or perhaps cumin fragrance that smells fecal or sweaty or whatever on your wrist has entirely different olfactory effect sprayed on your neck and experienced from farther away.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

If it is applied at the basenotes and in a very small dose and mixed with other notes it can make a good musky fragrance in a mens masculine scent. For example Givenchy Gentleman opens with a leather note that leads to the patchouli note then you get a pinch of civet at the basenotes. This gives it a good musky fragrance at the end phase of the scent.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Most sane people don't want to smell like poop. That much is true, but the whole world of flavors/aromas is sort of different shades of technicolor gray.

For example, sometimes people have nasty feet that smell like parmesan cheese. It's gross. Yet at the same time, one could say that parmesan cheese smells like feet-- yet we put that stuff in our mouths!

I always wondered why I heard all the tuna jokes in junior high. Then eventually, I found out. Crude? Yes. Accurate? Sometimes.

And then when you consider human waste and food, we naturally consider them extreme opposites in many ways, yet they're the same exact material, just before and after. Take broccoli for example. It's loaded with indole, which is a poop smell. I can't stand it when somebody orders steamed broccoli to go, and then just decides to stand around having a conversation. After five minutes that broccoli smells like a poorly maintained men's room. There is a poopy component to broccoli and cruciferous veggies, yet we eat them-- sometimes with parmesan cheese!

Honey and urine are both opposite sides of the same phenolic coin. One man's Miel de Bois is another man's Douche D'Or. Look at the controversy of Kouros. I personally think it's the phenolic honey accord in Kouros that gives people more trouble than the civet. Phenols are also a component of chocolate in conjunction with vanillin; And there is a saying that "You can't make a great chocolate accord without a little shit."

I mean, not to gross you out but next time you eat a candy bar (and I don't mean a Baby Ruth at the bottom of a pool), really try to take note of what's going on in the "basenotes" of that chocolate.

Sometimes when I smell Jicky, I get that straight up civet and it smells kind of dirty, but usually I only perceive that roundness that it gives to the composition. The thing I love about Musc Ravageur is that it's similar to Jicky in this regard. I don't see civet listed as a note in MR, but I definitely think there's a civet note there.

But back to food, seriously think about how much more of these dirty smells are in what you eat. It's everywhere. It's kind of the chicken and the egg. I always wondered what was the appeal of Canteloupe (MUSK-melon) and honeydew melon with Prosciutto... Then one day I bought half a canteloupe, half a honeydew and some high quality prosciutto and when I put them together I nearly died laughing. Those dirty minded Italians! It smelled and tasted like a clean, slighty sweaty salty crotch. Sorry, but it does and if you don't believe me try it for dinner tonight! Seriously, do it. Close your eyes and try not to think about Monica Bellucci.

I do remember one Basenoter a long time ago who did seem to have a constant civet fetish and I think it was some kind of alternative lifestyle thing for him, and it did gross the hell out of me when he'd come on here and start up endless civet threads. I wanted to tell him that this was maybe not the right forum for him. EDIT: I just wanted to reassure everyone that this person I'm speaking of is long gone; banned I think. It's none of you guys!

Last night I was walking my dog, I kept getting this aroma which I would best describe as a "well used hooker eating fried mushrooms". I finally figured out that it was the snowy white blossoms on the trees lining my street. I did a little online research and found that they are called Bradford Pear trees and they're notorious for the offensive smell of their blossoms, which many people to find smells like semen, thus earning them names like "spunk trees" and "semen trees". If I had to name them, I'd call them "jizz blossoms" or "hey-who's-shooting-a-bukkake-film-around-here? trees" Strange, but it also smelled like mushrooms, and I suppose there's a connection there too. Funny how we'd go mushroom hunting for wild morels as kids, and my grandma would call 'em "peckerheads", not that I had any idea at the time why she called them that. Ew.

So anyway, to sum it up, sometimes there are a lot of aromachemicals compounds that are in both the things we put in our bodies and things that come out of our bodies, and we can't let the second process diminish the first. It all goes together.

Last edited by Indie_Guy; 1st April 2011 at 07:12 AM.
Reason: clarification

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

nineXseven, your explanation of developing the ability to differentiate and associate scents was beautifully said! Limited association has a way of constraining or truncating our enjoyment of the many aspects of scents and perfumes. The more you smell, the more you can identify the many nuances a scent can evoke. Language also has a way of limiting our understanding I think. There are just so few words to describe what the mind perceives in a scent.

Indie_Guy, you really made me chuckle at your wonderful analysis of this phenomenon... all of it is so true! What a great sense of humour!

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Indoles are the component that many refer to as fecal. Indoles are part of feces and white flowers. Indoles have a sweet smell, they're added to vanilla ice cream. As Indie_Guy stated, humans have a highly developed culture of seeking out rotting things.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

IndieGuy's post is great. To add something:
Next time you eat a hard boiled egg think of what it smells like. Farts! They both have hydrogen sulfide which gives it that smell. So now why would we want to eat something that smells like farts? I have no idea.
As for oud, especially Indian oud, there is a fecal smell to it. The more I have worn oud the more my perception has changed. It doesn't really smell fecal to me anymore. My wife however still thinks it smells like horse poop.

Civet does usually smell of human waste, or of animal decay. I suspect that people not only sense these aspects variously, but also interpret their experiences of them differently. It has been argued that it has something to do with how they sharply strike the limbic system, bypassing conscious volition. But I cannot comment on that, not being a scientifician.

Pluran recently observed of the note's excessive starkness in Chanel's Cuir de Russie that now that the formulation has less of an obscuring veil of birch tar, it has acquired the savour of human saliva, and a fecal quality. I have not smelled the vintage elixir he praises, but I can confirm that this is the case with the present formulation. Yet I find that there is something mesmerising about it, and in what it permits to the overall fragrance. A hard, shimmering quality.

No, I am not a fetishist of the sort Indieguy peturbedly mentions. However, perhaps because of its reminiscence of animal rankness, civet really causes some part of me to Pay Attention. It is like smelling salts, and forces an involuntary response in me. Like fear of death, civet sharpens the mind wonderfully.

I could characterise my response as a startlement similar to slight pain. Whether it turns into distaste, confusion or pleasure depends on how the remainder of the fragrance is composed and interacts with it. To me, Jicky seems ill-balanced. But when the note is used well, my god, it is beautiful. Pain mingled with beauty, precisely akin to when, in listening to certain pieces of music, one thinks, 'Ah, this is so beautiful it hurts me to contemplate it' - but with the added realisation that the pain preceded the beauty, and has been transformed by it into a lens of poignancy.

I also think (you might suppose ludicrously) of Socrates' comment in Phaedo:

Socrates, sitting up on the couch, began to bend and rub his leg, saying, as he rubbed: "How singular is the thing called pleasure, and how curiously related to pain, which might be thought to be the opposite of it; for they never come to a man together, and yet he who pursues either of them is generally compelled to take the other. They are two, and yet they grow together out of one head or stem; and I cannot help thinking that if Aesop had noticed them, he would have made a fable about God trying to reconcile their strife, and when he could not, he fastened their heads together; and this is the reason why when one comes the other follows, as I find in my own case pleasure comes following after the pain in my leg, which was caused by the chain."

Similarly, my disarmed confusion at the decadent (in the sense of decaying) nature of civet changes after the first jagged moment (which is often repeated) into something else - something diametrically opposed, if the remainder of the fragrance is good enough to, so to speak, ease off the initial chain. With Jicky, the chain remains on to some degree; while with Cuir de Russie it falls off after a moment, leaving me, from sheer relief and delight, a little weak at the knees.

I cannot comment on ouds, my experience of them being too slight, but such are my current thoughts on civet.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

It's good to see some mature, thoughtful, and informative posting. This subject tends to bring out reflex reactions in many people that don't necessarily make for particularly interesting or informative reading.

Here's a post of mine from a while back rewritten substantially. I would have simply linked to the original post after some brief introductory comments, but the sorry excuse for a search engine on this site makes it next to impossible to track anything down:

A key constituent of civet is indole, which, along with skatole, is a key aromatic component of human feces. At a certain dilution, indole is highly floral. In fact, indole is actually a key part of the aromatic profile of certain white flowers, jasmine and orange blossoms, to name just two. Civet was a key component of many white-floral accords in classic perfumes because it gave an added dimension, body, and extension to the floral notes of such accords. It literally fixed the floral notes. Civet is one of the great fixatives. Like oakmoss it imparts its own characteristic olfactory aura as it slows down the evaporative rate of the lighter more volatile components in the perfume, and, at the same time, like oakmoss, it leaves these lighter more volatile components essentially unaltered so that they predominate unmasked and unmodified. No synthetic fixative comes close to having this complex effect, and this effect is inseparable from the indolic component of civet.

The ambivalence we feel over the indolic and animalic notes in general is to a large extent caused by the tension these notes create in us as we try to process them olfactorily. Do I like this fecal/animalic smell? Yes I do, but, wait, maybe I don't, but then, again, yes, I do, and before you know it, this vacillation has actually kept one engaged at a very deep olfactory level as one wavers trying to make up one's mind about whether the note is attractive or disgusting. No other type of note creates this kind of ambivalence and tension. It is the tension that arises from this ambivalence that keeps one fascinated by indolic and animalic notes in fragrances. It's a "troubling" attraction. Great perfumers understood this on the most conscious of levels and on the most visceral of levels also. Indolic and animalic notes are also just as powerfully attractive when they exist at a liminal level, and they frequently do in many classic men's and women's fragrances. I have actually found that you can seriously ruin a fragrance for some people (usually men) when you point out the indolic, richly animalic, or even urinous notes to them in a fragrance they like.

Indolic, richly animalic, and even urinous notes when blended well, it should be observed, appeal, at a very deep level, to the primal recognition and attraction of bodily odors by which--in our not so distant past--we used as the main means of identifying and "knowing" our fellow creatures, much like dogs do when they sniff each other. Of course, these bodily odors were very closely tied to sexual attraction. The hippocampus, the smaller primal brain within the brain, is not only the primal seat of emotions, but it is in large part the place in the brain in which smells are processed and hence connected with emotions and with attraction. Smells, especially indolic and animalic smells, connect us to the primal sniffing self. You can't, for the most part, have a neutral reaction to indolic or animalic notes. Notice the responses in this thread. You either love such notes or you "hate" them. Culture, gender, and, of course, the vagaries of human individuality provide the differences by which we all process and react to indolic, urinous, animalic notes in general. (What follows is entirely speculative.) My suspicion, however, is that gender plays a larger role than we imagine. Men generally tend to prefer their animalic notes in the form of leather notes, a somewhat sublimated and bodily removed set of notes that tie them at a primal and cultural level to their hunter origins. Much of this explains, on one level, why there are such strong, diametrically opposed responses to such strongly animalic fragrances like *Kouros* and perhaps, also, why so many women tend to find Kouros an unproblematically attractive fragrance on a man. Of course, women's fragrances have, traditionally, tended to be about seduction and so, not surprisingly, indolic and urinous notes have featured prominently in such fragrances, but for men, I suspect that that attraction is most powerful when it’s liminal. On another very deep level, I suspect women are less troubled by indolic and urinous notes than men because of their experience of and closer proximity and exposure to bodily fluids as a result of the primary role they have historically taken in child rearing.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Scentemental, that was really good, especially your opinions in the last paragraph on gender differences in regard to liminal and subliminal reactions to animalic notes.

There were times when I was very much aroused by women who were wearing indolic/urinous/musky perfumes which on a very conscious level I actually hated. I hated their perfumes, yet their perfumes would generate a physiological response from me. Not only that, some of these women, I'm ashamed to say, were not even attractive at all and I still got turned on against my wishes (but hey, I never said I went home with them!). So as stupid as "panty dropper/boxer dropper" threads are, there is still something to be said for a fragrance having the ability to trigger arousal almost on its own, when worn on any warm body.

Also, I have to agree when you pointed out that many fragrances are ruined for people when you mention the dirty notes of a scent they like. It's like walking a tightrope-- you're fine until you look down. I'd probably have never noticed the cumin in scents like Rose 31, Eau Sauvage, Erolfa, and Baldessarini if I hadn't seen the pyramids-- and not that my nose is so poor that it doesn't detect the cumin, but I've found that cumin is the one note that smells the least like itself inside a composition: It definitely imparts an effect on the fragrance, but it never smells like actual cumin to me.

Also, some people's body odor smells like cumin when they sweat-- mine generally doesn't (unless I've just eaten Indian food), so to me, I don't automatically smell cumin notes and run screaming-- but I avoid them because most people, I've found, have an aversion to them and associate them with dirty armpits. I remember once hopping out of the shower, dabbing on a little Arabie to test it out (and really loving it), heading to work and hearing a bunch of comments like "Who forgot to shower? etc.

You have to think to yourself... A lot of these animalic notes are a bit "out of the way" from the perspective of early perfumers looking for materials. It's a lot easier and more natural to pick a bergamot and squeeze the juice out of it than it is to grab a thrashing angry civet by its low hanging fruit and manage to "harvest" civet paste; I mean cripes, I feel a bit foolish and feckless trying to brush my dog's teeth, but I digress. You have to be determined. You really don't stumble upon civet paste and castoreum by accident, any more than some guy winding up in ER because he "fell and somehow impaled himself on a shampoo bottle in the shower".

All of these materials-- civet, musk, castoreum, hyrax, ambergris, beeswax were all selected for use in perfumery because of their relationship not only to (un)pleasant, primal human odors but also because of their compounds which echo and fortify the ephemeral, sublime qualities in all of the flowers and fruits that smell like we think of as smelling beautiful.

I do find that of all the animalic notes, I find leather the easiest for me to personally wear.

Also, I'm curious, Scentemental, if you know when civet stopped being used in perfumes. I wonder if early formulations of Kouros have it. I have a new bottle of Kouros and a very old (1986) bottle of Kouros Eau de Sport. To me, the civet note seems different in the Eau de Sport-- a lot more natural and warm than my newer bottle of Kouros. Just curious if it could be real civet.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

No waste smell for me either.....I have noticed this with certain fragrances.....In the past I have also picked up a BO (body odor) note when sampling that is also a big turn off.....I cannot understand why anyone would want to smell like this!!!
Gary

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

I have a small bit of Cambodian oud oil and it can be perceived as either barnyard/fecal or resinous, woody and fruity. My perception flip flops a bit... my brain isn't sure which way to route the information, but the different ways of perceiving the scent provokes VERY different reactions. So saying something smells fecal might not be the way others perceive it. For better or worse, all of our sensory inputs are subject to the brain's interpretive associations.

Also, I like the "troubling" attraction scentemental mentioned... I get that for sure, the ones that do that to me are some of the ones I find most interesting.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Originally Posted by AZsmells

IndieGuy's post is great.

I am totally new here, but that was one of the FUNNIEST posts I have ever read, in any forum, ever! A classic worth saving!

Originally Posted by AZsmells

As for oud, especially Indian oud, there is a fecal smell to it. The more I have worn oud the more my perception has changed. It doesn't really smell fecal to me anymore. My wife however still thinks it smells like horse poop.

I know a number of people (myself not among them) who almost adore the smell of horse manure, especially as opposed to any other kind. I don't find it as offensive as most other manures (goat seems the most innocuous to me), but there is nothing about it that I find particularly attractive either.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Originally Posted by scentemental

[COLOR=blue]Here's a post of mine from a while back rewritten substantially. I would have simply linked to the original post after some brief introductory comments, but the sorry excuse for a search engine on this site makes it next to impossible to track anything down

i agree it is bad. it used to be alright, before the big upgrade. since then i use, and suggest using, google. try this, enter site:basenotes.net and then the search key terms, in google. you can include anything. and this trick works for any site with a bad (or no) search facility.

i agree it is bad. it used to be alright, before the big upgrade. since then i use, and suggest using, google. try this, enter site:basenotes.net and then the search key terms, in google. you can include anything. and this trick works for any site with a bad (or no) search facility.

Nice tip. It works like a charm..

We're all in the same game; just different levels. Dealing with the same hell; just different devils.

Re: Fragrance with a fecal smell an addictive? Do you like fecal scent fragrance?

Hmm, I'm a bit late to this thread but I've not yet experienced any fragrance with anything like a fecal smell. Are there particular fragrances that are supposed to have this? I don't get any fecal elements from Kouros.