StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 18, 2011, 00:04:Yes, and your tactic of just saying "har har your shit makes no sense so I am right" is not exactly blowing my mind either man.

I spent pages replying with sensible and reasonable arguments which you even conceded to. If you believed in what you said you would apply the same principles to other platform participants, not just Steam.

Verno wrote on Jun 17, 2011, 17:56:You already tried that tactic and I already debunked it. Acting like there is no difference between an indie developer offering a game somewhere and EA saying everyone but Steam can have it on purpose is just asinine. You're just posting in circles at this point to get the last word. In the future you should try looking at announcements without prejudice before weighing in on them, your comments here have made little sense from the beginning.

Yes, and your tactic of just saying "har har your shit makes no sense so I am right" is not exactly blowing my mind either man.

I said my peace, I believe in what I said. I couldn't care less if buying from EA is the only way to buy EA games, what I care about is that no one can tell EA or any other dev/pub what they can do on the PC. You're free to disagree as long and as hard as you want.

You already tried that tactic and I already debunked it. Acting like there is no difference between an indie developer offering a game somewhere and EA saying everyone but Steam can have it on purpose is just asinine. You're just posting in circles at this point to get the last word. In the future you should try looking at announcements without prejudice before weighing in on them, your comments here have made little sense from the beginning.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 23:38:The only bad to come of this would be if Origin becomes like Steam is today, then we traded one dictator for another.

No it's not the only bad thing, I explained it to you in detail for almost two pages. Anything that removes consumer choice is bad in more ways than one, particularly for people who like to shop across multiple vendors.

And I repeat: if an indie dev says "hey come get this at my website" is he being evil? Should he also work out some deal with stores like Steam or else he is being uncompetitive?

I view the PC as an open platform because anyone can make a game and sell a game however they want. If EA want to sell only on Origin I fully support their decision to do so, because it means nothing comes between them and the consumer. Having to deal with and perhaps modify your game to please Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo and Valve are the kinds of things I very much dislike. If Steam continues to grow and be essential to selling games on the PC then Valve has in effect "yay or nay" control over what succeeds on the PC.

Me no likey.

I understand your priorities are elsewhere, but those are YOUR priorities.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 23:38:The only bad to come of this would be if Origin becomes like Steam is today, then we traded one dictator for another.

No it's not the only bad thing, I explained it to you in detail for almost two pages. Anything that removes consumer choice is bad in more ways than one, particularly for people who like to shop across multiple vendors.

EA saying "hey we're making games come and get them at our website" is a good thing from my perspective. The only bad to come of this would be if Origin becomes like Steam is today, then we traded one dictator for another.

That's not what EA is saying. They said come get our games, you can get them everywhere but Steam. That could just as easily be whatever Steam competitor comes next. I'm not going to continue debating whether this is good or not, its obviously not good to the point that everyone has explained it several times already.

Dades wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 20:50:He seems to think that because it takes market share away from Steam that it will prevent Steam from being as pervasive which in turn will keep the PC platform open. He ignores the fact that this is an action initiated by a closed platform that just encourages more closed platform behavior which is what he is afraid of in the first place. People will use Steam like use they anything else. They'll use it until something better comes along.

The open you're talking about and the open I am talking about are two entirely separate things. I am talking about the ability for a dude, group of dudes or a company to make a game and sell a game on the PC without anyone else being involved or having a say. Steam becoming the defacto PC ruler means Valve have a say over everything that is made for the PC because you can't succeed without releasing on Steam.

Steam becoming less of a platform and more of just a place to buy SOME games is a good thing from my perspective. EA saying "hey we're making games come and get them at our website" is a good thing from my perspective. The only bad to come of this would be if Origin becomes like Steam is today, then we traded one dictator for another.

Krovven wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 19:54:Huh, what? Origin is NOT an open platform. Maybe you are referring to Steam having "to work"?

Origin is a closed platform that is only going to sell EA published games. If they remove their games from other services, how is this good, and in any way beneficial to anyone other than EA?

He seems to think that because it takes market share away from Steam that it will prevent Steam from being as pervasive which in turn will keep the PC platform open. He ignores the fact that this is an action initiated by a closed platform that just encourages more closed platform behavior which is what he is afraid of in the first place. People will use Steam like use they anything else. They'll use it until something better comes along.

It does make sense from my point of view. That's where you're arrogant, you assume you're automatically right and that I'm an idiot.

I never said you were an idiot, I said that you were being a hypocrite earlier. You admitted to your bias twice and proved me correct. The reasons why you are biased in this instance don't really matter to me but for the sake of not being petty I thought I'd mention why your fears are unfounded. It's not a question of who is wrong or right, this is bad for everyone but EA.

You say this as if it's fact but I see it happening differently. I see the people who only shop on Steam, I see the indie devs who act like you have to get on Steam to make money, I see gaming journalists acting like Steam is the only game in town, I see that over half my boxes from amazon tie to Steam.

All of which conveniently ties to opinion and not facts and you aren't taking into account everything mentioned here. The PC platform can't be taken over unless the hardware is restricted. If developers and publishers seek uniformity in distribution then they will do that with or without Steam. If consumers want the same thing it will happen. That doesn't mean the rest of the platform will cease to exist and you're ignoring how powerful independent distribution is becoming.

Dades wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 18:42:You admitted wanting to see Steam hurt even if it makes no sense.

It does make sense from my point of view. That's where you're arrogant, you assume you're automatically right and that I'm an idiot.

The justification you use to arrive at your opinion isn't what I was talking about. Steam has competition and people don't just buy games from Steam in case you're genuinely worried about it. Some people might do that but some people also like country music and the world carries on.

No one can monopolize an open platform, stop worrying about the who and worry instead about the why.

You say this as if it's fact but I see it happening differently. I see the people who only shop on Steam, I see the indie devs who act like you have to get on Steam to make money, I see gaming journalists acting like Steam is the only game in town, I see that over half my boxes from amazon tie to Steam.

If you disagree there is a danger then fine, that's your opinion. I see Steam as a threat to take over the PC platform though, and I welcome things that weaken it because I don't want that to happen. Disagree 'til the cows come home if you want, but don't act like I am acting from some anti-Steam malice that clouds my judgement. I think it's a fine platform, it's just too popular and pervasive. And yes, on an open platform it is hard for some company to take over like that. I agree with you. That's why I look forward to Origin or whatever else taking some of their market away, putting that open platform to work.

StingingVelvet wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 17:41:What I admitted is that my desire to see Steam become less powerful might be coloring my priorities. I don't have a bias against Steam as far as disliking it or wanting it to fail. As I have said multiple times I buy Steamworks games and prefer Steamworks to any other multiplayer solution right now. I just don't like how big Steam has gotten and how many people only use Steam for gaming purchases.

You admitted wanting to see Steam hurt even if it makes no sense. The justification you use to arrive at your opinion isn't what I was talking about. Steam has competition and people don't just buy games from Steam in case you're genuinely worried about it. Some people might do that but some people also like country music and the world carries on.

No one can monopolize an open platform, stop worrying about the who and worry instead about the why.

Dades wrote on Jun 16, 2011, 15:14:Yeah, you're right. I apologize. It was a cheap ding, it takes a big person to admit their own bias and mistakes, I should have been more charitable.

What I admitted is that my desire to see Steam become less powerful might be coloring my priorities. I don't have a bias against Steam as far as disliking it or wanting it to fail. As I have said multiple times I buy Steamworks games and prefer Steamworks to any other multiplayer solution right now. I just don't like how big Steam has gotten and how many people only use Steam for gaming purchases.

Perhaps EA selling games only on Origin is actually worse, but I am so focused on my concerns with Steam being a pseudo-monopoly that it's hard to see that.