Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera. Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so. These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

AFMA is extremely tricky to use properly and easy to b*****k up your AF.

It's not that tricky to use. Just aiming at a crack in the sidewalk 10' in front of you and adjusting can radically improve things. Or just aim at a player standing out on the field and adjust until the DOF centers around the grass at their feet in the way you wish.

AND if you mess it up, how hard is it to hit reset and put it all back to zero? Is that any harder than doing anything else you can do with the camera?

Is it that rare for a rebel user to try to shoot some sports or wildlife or portraits ir whatever with an 85 1.8, 70-200 2.8, 300 f/4, 50 1.4 (granted this lens is so dodgy it's pretty hard to figure out what MFA to use but that is a problem specific to that lens), 50 1.8, 100 2.8?

AND who says you HAVE to use it? If you find it confusing, don't want it, etc. DON'T USE IT! Just because some people won't be able to understand something means everyone else has to be punished. If you find it confusing then avoid it! That takes zero effort.

I haven't even used a Rebel for like ten years but I'd still like to see them put MFA in them. It's not a feature but something to even out QC. Some Rebels may be spot on, some may be at -10. Some lenses people have may be spot on some may be -15. Why should they have to suffer from that. And having no mention that calibration can be off in the manual probably confuses many a newbie shooter. Maybe they get frustrated and quit using DSLRs even. I get that they are a business and want to push people up. And maybe if it only affected f/1.2 shooting by a couple inches you could call it a pro feature and certainly 5D3 focuses a lot more precisely than a 50D even if both are calibrated, but not having MFA can even mean that f/4 shooting can sometimes be way off which seems beyond simply calling it a pro-precision to feature to me.

And removing it from the 60D after the 50D had it (and not having put it in the 40D) was pretty cheap. And you say ok send it in to canon. Yeah and then maybe miss two crucial weeks of a season or maybe they mess up say the 1D3 AF and are so busy fixing that they can't be bothered to handle calibrations for more than a month and then you are stuck.

and even when i sound like a broken record... AFMA is just to correct flaws in canons manufacturing process. it´s not as if the customer gets something he would not expect from the start -> correct focusing with fast glass.

I've also got a broken record :-p ... Canon lenses work with Canon bodies most of the time just fine, imho the main reason for Canon removing / not implementing afma is to screw 3rd party manufacturers who have a harder time to do perfect lens-body adjustments for all the brands they support - that's why Tamron does free lens adjustments & Sigma rolls out the lens usb interface!

Ironically once Sigma has the USB calibration in all of their lenses they will do MFA with Rebels when Canon's own body+lens combo won't and they will push sales to sigma lenses even more perhaps.

Some are arguing why Canon is not putting AFMA in Rebels... but if they wanted, they could also argue how much of a good thing it would be for both Canon and it's loyal user base who will invariably spend a lot more in lenses.

Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera. Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so. These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

I didn't say that, did I?

I think that if you did a survey of Rebel users and asked them "Does your camera back focus?" or "Is your camera's autofocus broken?", very few would respond with a "yes". This notion that every non-AFMA camera is "broken" is an internet myth. If a camera actually backfocuses by 8 FEET, as in your example, then it is defective and covered by warranty, and AFMA wouldn't fix it anyway.

For most people, small cameras are like refrigerators, power tools, lawn mowers and phones. They are going to buy them and use them, but they are not going to spend any part of their life on internet forums debating them. Zero. I own a refrigerator, but have never visited a forum to discuss it and likely never will. The people who debate on internet forums make up a very small part of the customer base for such things, and skew the discussion toward complaints about design, discontent with the profit motive, conspiracy theories about marketing, etc.

Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera. Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so. These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

I didn't say that, did I?

I think that if you did a survey of Rebel users and asked them "Does your camera back focus?" or "Is your camera's autofocus broken?", very few would respond with a "yes". This notion that every non-AFMA camera is "broken" is an internet myth. If a camera actually backfocuses by 8 FEET, as in your example, then it is defective and covered by warranty, and AFMA wouldn't fix it anyway.

For most people, small cameras are like refrigerators, power tools, lawn mowers and phones. They are going to buy them and use them, but they are not going to spend any of their life on internet forums debating them. The people who debate on internet forums make up a very small part of the customer base for such things, and skew the discussion toward complaints about design, discontent with the profit motive, conspiracy theories about marketing, etc.

this is from the same guy who griped that the 5d3 didn't have the DR that the D800 has.... some people just like to nitpick and complain... This rebel, for what it is, will probably be enough for 98% of all it's intended customer base... The other 2% can either upgrade to the xxd or xd line or downgrade to the powershoots cause it is too much camera. See ya guys, got photos to take

Logged

Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, Canon 85 1.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

Concerning tolerances...I believe that all Canon cameras (and probably most other manufacturers) are tested with a reference lens and an internal AFMA number is stored in the body before it leaves the factory. This is how they deal with manufacturing tolerances. The process is not perfect... sometimes a lens might not be properly seated, or a mistake is made, and the wrong value gets calculated and stored..... but most of the time it gets the camera close. Same thing with lenses.

The average user will never notice that the image is not perfect.... it is "good enough". Many will remark on how it is way better than that p/s or cell phone camera they had.... They are buying a camera to take pictures and most of the time leaving it in auto will do just fine.

The SL1 and T5i are for those who will leave it in auto most of the time. They will take great pictures. They will be proud of them. They will be happy. There are also a whole heck of a lot of them so these two cameras will sell lots.

Why is everyone talking about "Rebels"? This is the SL1. A new form factor that could appeal to more than just the entry level consumer.

The SL1 is called the "Rebel SL1". Check the Canon web site.

i realize that. Thats why i put rebel in quotes. Perhaps i was being too subtle. I meant it isnt a traditional rebel. So i dont think the usual canon marketing rules should apply. I guess i am the only one thinking along those lines.

AFMA to me is a diagnostic tool. It is there to get the most of your tool.Same as a computer that gives you access to the bios to tweak settings.

Some people will use it and some people would care less. But its good to have the option to be able to get the most from your tool.

Canon should see it this way and not as a feature to get people to upgrade to better bodies. It doesn't cost them much and it might even get people talking about tweaking lens versus b****ing about this new camera.

Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera. Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so. These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

I didn't say that, did I?

I think that if you did a survey of Rebel users and asked them "Does your camera back focus?" or "Is your camera's autofocus broken?", very few would respond with a "yes". This notion that every non-AFMA camera is "broken" is an internet myth. If a camera actually backfocuses by 8 FEET, as in your example, then it is defective and covered by warranty, and AFMA wouldn't fix it anyway.

For most people, small cameras are like refrigerators, power tools, lawn mowers and phones. They are going to buy them and use them, but they are not going to spend any of their life on internet forums debating them. The people who debate on internet forums make up a very small part of the customer base for such things, and skew the discussion toward complaints about design, discontent with the profit motive, conspiracy theories about marketing, etc.

this is from the same guy who griped that the 5d3 didn't have the DR that the D800 has.... some people just like to nitpick and complain... This rebel, for what it is, will probably be enough for 98% of all it's intended customer base... The other 2% can either upgrade to the xxd or xd line or downgrade to the powershoots cause it is too much camera. See ya guys, got photos to take

Yeah well it doesn't have even close to the same DR the D800 does.

Believe it or not you ain't the only one with photos to take. How do you think people ended up hitting into problems with AF calibration or not having enough DR at times?

I'm not saying they need to put anythng special into the Rebel just give it MFA so it can be easily made to function to spec (and now that does not mean it will focus nearly as precisely as say a 1DX evne if both are calibrated, but at least it will do what a Rebel should be able to do).

You are clearly confused. Put on your plastic glasses and step out of your virtual reality. Canon's marketing strategy is an open secret - and that's not just an unbiased opinion, it's based on an original copy of an internal memo. I'd go into more detail, but I have to go finish the larger half of my dinner, I'm having jumbo shrimp.

Your phrasing about "a camera that won't act broken" just reflects your personal need for AFMA, even in a $649 camera. Cameras without AFMA don't "act broken" and it is odd to say so. These cameras do work to their specs, just not to your specs.

So if some back focus by 8' that is in spec for a Rebel?? How generous of you.

honestly the guy is a jerk....

For giving his view?

I think you have made your view clear in numerous posts and should accept that others also wants to chip in.