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Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by Kay3795

This dumbass funny Naruto had to grow up and that's part of development.
I agree though, that arc was one of the best. In fact I like part one battles and plot alot and i some how wish Naruto could take us back to the part one feeling. I think tat could happen if he travelled to a distant place(Far away from konoha) to search for Uzimaki secrets or something

The thing is, Kishi showed Naruto as a dumbass in a fight against Nagato. It just makes no sense how someone who could plan deep strategies three years prior (tricking Kiba with timing of kage bunshin and henge) make such an embarrassing mistake against Nagato.

And while he does have to grow up, he doesn't need to lose his never give up attitude and some of his stupidity due to wantin to prove himself, like stabbing his hand and makign a vow. Naruto's strategies are awesome, Kishi should make him use more of his strategies. The things Naruto came up with were pretty unique, like how he used his clones to do a version of Uzumaki Naruto rendan on Gaara or how he managed to get around Pain's Rin'negan sight by creating a dust field and attacking Naraku from above.

Originally Posted by jaymizzo

What Armadillo mission? I sorta stopped watching the Anime after they butchered the Pein vs Naruto animation

It's in the manga, at the least. Naruto was at the island when the war started, and I THINK before beating the Kyuubi as I recall Yamato. No wait, it was probably after, because of what happened to the island. He was given a mission to document the animals on the island as an excuse to keep him from finding about the war and trying to join it.

He was determining gender, the armadillo was rolled up and refused to show its privates, adn then the island got shaken up by Deidara's bombs. Naruto saw its privates. <_<

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And to the whole Sasuke vs Naruto hatred debate. A lot of people hate Sasuke mostly because of his fandom, same case with a lot of characters or people. And most Sasuke fans never come up with any constructive arguments and always come up with 1 liners or "Umad/Why you hatin" statements. Ofcourse there are some Naruto fans who just go "flash bijuudama" and exit the thread but not as often as how annoying Sasuke fanboys can be.

I doubt his fandom has anything to do with the hatred. The excuses used to hate on him looks more like attempts to justify hating him because he's stronger than Naruto, or was.

Really? I rarely found such argument here whereas with Sasuke haters, it's the same thing. "He's overpowered! He's haxxed! Sasuke got free gifts!" The only problem I have is that they allow Naruto to get a free pass, and try to excuse it with stuff like "Naruto paid the price with his parents' lives and childhood!"

The annoying thing about some Sasuke fanboys is how they knock down Naruto or Naruto's intelligence though.

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Edit: M3J i have been watching the Naruto Anime from Episode 1 again, and i gotta say i really do prefer those days when it was much more simple without the meteors.

Same. Naruto's strategies were just amazing to watch. None of that "durr, bijuu mode FRS!", but he actually fought and planned to win. Neji vs. Naruto was awesome because of the way Naruto worked hard, how he crawled through the ground and beat Neji. Same with Sasuke vs. Yoroi.

Naruto vs. Kiba is an example of why Naruto wouldn't be fodder without Kyuubi. Same with his fight against the Mist genin before they finished the Forest of Death part of the exam. His power came from his refusal to give up, Kyuubi wouldn't have helped him if Naruto just said "oh shucks, can't use my chakra. I give up, Neji wins!"

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

There's no possible way to retcon this though. Tobirama didn't have freewill for more than a minute after he was summoned, so it's unsure if he could free himself or didn't know how to. Or he knew he couldn't do anything while the caster was still alive and could still control him, since we saw Kabuto lose control of Edo Tensei when Madara began to disappear.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

You are giving me an explanation for the situation, not a reason why it couldn't be a retcon, as in "didn't plan this from the start".

And stop with the jokes, the amount of time they were talking before Oro put the seals on them was enough time for Sho-and Nidaime to make hundreds of seals, if not I wouldn't even rank them as jounin. Character that jump at non tracable speed are capable of forming eight hand seals within the introduction they had. Why wouldn't he know the secret to his own jutsu, while Madara could? That would be as illogical as it gets. I'm a hundred percent sure that Kishimoto didn't plan so far ahead. This is the man that wasn't capable of writing a Kakashi/Sakura arc in years despite his talk about doing so.

Now that I think about it, Kishimoto did treat Anbu forces like shit in this war. Was there really nobody capable besides Kakashi on the good side of Konoha or some strong ones from the neighbouring countries... I wish he would have given them some time to shine.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

ANBU has almost always been treated like shit.

You're exaggerating the amount of time they had. While they should have been able to pop off a jutsu or two, Orochimaru wouldn't have let them do it. Though, not sure if Orochimaru had SOME control over the -ramas without the fudas, but even Madara didn't want to use the seals unless he had to.

But, why would Tobirama want to use Edo Tensei on himself? Even if he could cancel it, he might not have, which woudl have scared him. Even as a hokage, he was hesitant in volunteering to be a decoy since the risk of death was high... maybe he feared he'd chicken out on canceling the Edo Tensei on himself.

Dunno. Same as how Minato knew or guessed chidori's weakness before Kakashi used it or how Naruto didn't know about kage bunshin's ability to transfer experiences despite using it thousands of time, although it's not his technique. I think Edo Tensei being able to use the seal to stay as an Edo Tensei is a retcon than Tobirama not knowing its weakness, which might make sense if it's never happened to him before. Madara could have been desperate enough to try using the same seals to prevent him being canceled, hoping it'd work.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by M3J

You're exaggerating the amount of time they had.

But, why would Tobirama want to use Edo Tensei on himself?

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N: It's been a long time, eh saru?
S: Ohhh. It's you. Hmmm... you've grown old haven't you, Sarutobi.
Saru: I would not have thought I would meet with you two brothers again in a situation like this. It's regretable. Please make your preparations to be defeated. Shodaime-sama! Nidaime-sama!
N: Edo Tensei, huh. This youngster is the one who summoned us with the taboo artsm huh. He's quiet something.
S: If that's so, then Saurtobi! I guess that would mean that we would have to fight against you.

The time they needed to speak those lines was not enough? I'm not exaggerating.

Maybe he would sacrifice himself as a previous Hokage to save his village from total destruction. Fear for himself shouldn't play a role in that kind situation and would make him look like a selfish person, something I hope he wasn't at any time of his life.

Originally Posted by M3J

I think Edo Tensei being able to use the seal to stay as an Edo Tensei is a retcon than Tobirama not knowing its weakness, which might make sense if it's never happened to him before.

Is more of a retcon? What do you mean, looks like a word has gone missing.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by M3J

The fact that ET can use the seals to avoid the technique canceling on him is a retcon, like an excuse to keep Madara in play. Makes no sense to me.

Er... I don't think you know what retcon means. Retcons generally changes previously established "facts" for the purpose of maintaining continuity. Tobirama was unable to break himself free from ET even though he knows the seals and is the supposed creator of the jutsu. Madara being able to do that now breaks that established "fact" and thus is a retcon unless we are given some really good explaination (which we are not).

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

While I read that chapter, I was just glad it wasn't just another mythical new Uchiha jutsu conveniently crafted for the occasion

It is a retcon, unless Tobirama was an evil mastermind that wanted the destruction of Konoha

With the way its going, ET could have very well been created by Uchiha Madara and taught to Tobirama. Madara makes a quote a couple chapters back that says he had wished he had taught Hashirama how to come back to life. W/e that means is up for interpretations, but he is like the all knowing being right now, so ET can still be some mythical Uchiha jutsu conveniently crafted for the occasion.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

While I read that chapter, I was just glad it wasn't just another mythical new Uchiha jutsu conveniently crafted for the occasion

It is a retcon, unless Tobirama was an evil mastermind that wanted the destruction of Konoha

Or Izanagi. That'd have been major bullshit. D:

Originally Posted by chilibun

Er... I don't think you know what retcon means. Retcons generally changes previously established "facts" for the purpose of maintaining continuity. Tobirama was unable to break himself free from ET even though he knows the seals and is the supposed creator of the jutsu. Madara being able to do that now breaks that established "fact" and thus is a retcon unless we are given some really good explaination (which we are not).

With the way its going, ET could have very well been created by Uchiha Madara and taught to Tobirama. Madara makes a quote a couple chapters back that says he had wished he had taught Hashirama how to come back to life. W/e that means is up for interpretations, but he is like the all knowing being right now, so ET can still be some mythical Uchiha jutsu conveniently crafted for the occasion.

It can't be an Uchiha jutsu if Orochimaru, Tobirama, and Kabuto were able to use it. That must mean Madara rarely ever used ET, then, as the jutsu's only associated with Tobirama before Orochimaru's time.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Originally Posted by M3J

Plot reasons, retcon, whatever...

Don't just ignore his explanation like that, especially if you seem to not have understood it before.

Him saying it's a Uchicha jutsu, doesn't stop it from being usable by non-Uchihas too, it's a "normal" jutsu not a dojutsu after all, just saying. You read to much into the post. It was Tobirama that invented it, that much should be clear from reading the manga.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

Tobirama not breaking himself free of ET while Madara being able to isn't necessarily a retcon. There could be reasons why Tobirama didn't do it, IF Kishi planned that far ahead. The whole being able to break free of ET is stupid, it makes no sense.

Point taken. We have seen Sharingan and Byakugan be usable by anyone, but Sharingan apparently uses up more chakra on Non-Uchihas.

Re: Naruto Hangout Thread v.12

It can't be an Uchiha jutsu if Orochimaru, Tobirama, and Kabuto were able to use it. That must mean Madara rarely ever used ET, then, as the jutsu's only associated with Tobirama before Orochimaru's time.

I'm not saying its not BS. Half the things that occur since the Pain arc is BS. Just trying to clarify what retcon actually means.

As for ET, its obvious that its not an Uchiha specific technique. I'm just saying based on recent events and the general trend of Kishi's BS writing, I wouldn't be surprised at all if ET was developed or related to Madara. Nothings needs to be consistent or make sense anymore in Naruto. Kishi will throw random plot twists just for the sake of having a plot twist.