Dallas wrote:Not all members of AA are alcoholics. Some are merely "hard drinkers". They look like an alcoholic, they act like an alcoholic, they talk like an alcoholic, and they drink like an alcoholic -- but, the fact is they are not alcoholic. If you read Chapter 3, more about alcoholism -- it specifically addresses them. They do not need a program to recover or to stop drinking. A good crisis, threat of divorce, loss of job, facing a judge, a trip to jail -- and, they can just quit -- and stay quit drinking.

These hard-drinking non-alcoholics that are in AA, can maintain their sober-ness by simply going to meetings or hanging out w/ the Fellowship. They don't need the 12 Steps and they don't need the Big Book.

I nearly died drinking -- after going to AA and finding these types of AA's that were trying to help me. They had fellowship support but no program of recovery. They stayed sober -- one guy for five years and another guy for 3 years -- they didn't take the steps -- and this convinced me, a "real alcoholic" that I could do what they did. I ended up going back to drinking and couldn't stay sober. I figured "well, I already tried what Jack & Bill and those AA's were doing -- so, I know that AA will not work for me."

That's one of the primary problems inside AA today that newcomers are not aware of. They see some guy or girl going to meetings with a message of "just don't drink no matter what, go to meetings, call me if you need to talk or need a ride and I'll be there for you" (with that member thinking he is being helpful)... and the guy or girl ends up dying from alcoholism -- because they got the wrong message. They were real alcoholics -- and the non-alcoholic AA member, that didn't need the 12 Steps as a program of recovery -- did more to harm those alcoholics than he did to help them.

There is two AA's.

One is the book, Alcoholics Anonymous -- it has the program of recovery of AA, which is the 12 Steps.

The second AA -- is simply the Fellowship. Alcoholics that are (supposedly and expectedly) using the program of recovery -- the 12 Steps, in the book.

This is why I asked Bovril the question of "what is IT". The answer, obviously is "the IT" is just meetings and the Fellowship -- with no AA program of recovery.

My suggestion, for members of AA, that do not use "the AA Program of Recovery" in the Big Book is: They should leave AA. They do more to harm and hurt newcomers in AA than they do to help them.

While their motives are good, and I'm sure they are good well-meaning humans -- they could be more helpful by finding venues other than AA -- to help alcoholics. Places like churches or other foundations -- or organizations -- but, not AA.

Batteries?? Nope but be assured I will check that later It just never occured to me that there was a difference....THAT EXPLAINS A LOT!!! I am a an Alcoholic! I need this Program of Recovery! Without it I WILL die!!