Just realized with all this talk of distances from schools that if I go out in the alley and cut through the neighbor’s yard, I’m at the back edge of a grade school playground somewhere around 200 - 250 feet or so away. Even the sidewalk in front of my house would be about 350 to 400 feet. Because we have to drive around the block to get to it, I don’t think of it as being that close.

That is some of the unintended consequences inherent in many of these amendments. Same problem with the daycare thing if you run a daycare you litterly cannot carry the weapon to your car to go hunting.

The motion to send it back to committee was purely a party line vote, Madigan wants this done on the floor so all dems voted no, the 47 were all republicans. This in no way is a good indicator of where members stand on Phelps’ amendment or hb997

–Sorry wrong info there the problem is you cannot keep a operable firearm in your house if daycare there was a change from the last time i read it.–

I’m a lot of years removed from the unbelievable stress of obtaining good home daycare, but weapons in the house was one of my first questions regarding overall safety.

I grew up on a farm and in farm country. I recall instances of kids who suffocated in corn cribs, got butchered by augers and died from exposure wandering into a cornfield.

If you want to have a home daycare, I don’t think it’s too much to ask that you get the weapons out the house. Lock them up in a safe in the barn (just in case you forget to lock them up in the safe in the house). Put some plugs into the electrical outlets, too.

And for those about to ask, yes, I can recall two instances in my life of accidental shootings by kids finding guns “secured” in the home.

Yes, I know. I’m also about 500 feet from a church. Don’t think that would be an issue though because I go there and they are pretty much in the conservative camp … actually quite a bit more than I am personally on certain issues but Mrs. RNUG likes that church so that’s where we go.

My concern is this if you run a home daycare the way this thing is worded after all the kids go home. you still cannot keep a weapon available to defend yourself. I know where you are it is unusual but not where i am. A lot of people have small daycares in their house. In facts my kids went to one everytime. Of course it was called Grandma’s .

===My concern is this if you run a home daycare the way this thing is worded after all the kids go home. you still cannot keep a weapon available to defend yourself. I know where you are it is unusual but not where i am. A lot of people have small daycares in their house. In facts my kids went to one everytime. Of course it was called Grandma’s .

Of course, Grandma wasn’t regulated by the state. Conceal carry would not be allowed but it’s not concealed carry to have a firearm in the home even if it doubles as a business. That said, it better be in a gun safe while kids are present. IOW, if it is banned for the home owner, that would be in another area of the law such as the law regulating home child care.

I think a lot of the problem is the whole adjacent thing. Especially with no definition. IF i live next to a church does that mean i am banned in my own home? Also note the amendments all say no guns not no carry. Which is a little odd unless you are trying to make little poison pills to attack your opponents on later. The way some of them read you basically have to surrender your 2nd amendment rights in your own home because your neighbor has a daycare, or is gov or church. Currie basically admitted as such.

The amendment states and the proponent just stated in debate you must have the weapon unloaded and locked. You may know more than me on this but nothing in the wording says when children are there. To me it reads in the property with no distinction. I agree it says you can own one but you cannot own an OPERABLE weapon. I.E. unloaded and cased at all times.

What do you do with a concealed firearm if you find yourself having to go to one of the places where carry is illegal?

For example, I’d be interested to see how many weapons are stashed in downtown St. Louis. Many of the restaurants, hotels, private businesses, government buildings, and bars there forbid patrons from carrying in their establishments. Assuming for a second someone wants to follow the rules of the house, where are they stashing the gun? Storm drain? Dumpster? I can imagine that being an easy way to lose track of a firearm.

I hope the good people at Redbox are watching this. I see an interesting business expansion opportunity. “Stash the gun. $1 DVD rentals.”

====== IF i live next to a church does that mean i am banned in my own home?

And actually there is an interesting issue here–conveying the gun from your home outward if you live next door. This is one of the issues I believe Todd was mentioning in relation to a ‘good’ bill or a ‘bad’ bill for ISRA–can you store or convey in cases like that. I can’t answer that right now, but he would be the person to answer that better.

===What do you do with a concealed firearm if you find yourself having to go to one of the places where carry is illegal?

Your car is usually the answer–though you have a decent idea. Though frankly there aren’t that many people carrying when you look at the numbers who self-report on surveys and such.

Part of the issue I mentioned above is can you store a firearm in your car while you shop or such? Can the property owner ban that? Or is that allowed for the reason you mention? Generally in Missouri you are allowed to store in your car for most public places. That is not true for universities, but I don’t know for government offices.

“Part of the issue I mentioned above is can you store a firearm in your car while you shop or such? Can the property owner ban that?”

That’s the real nugget of the problem with the ‘proximity’ portion of the bans, right? So, you ban CC in church, or at the Casino, or in a govt. building, and ‘within X feet’ or in ‘adjoining areas’–so, can one not have a gun in one’s car parked outside? Or is that all resting on the definition of CC, and the de-holstering and locking up won’t (technically) be a violation?

Gotta say, I do NOT trust the Police to enforce that correctly. Even tho you’d avoid a conviction, that gray area is too much power to the Police. (and, again, this is something highly, highly unlikely to ever affect me directly)

I find all the discussion about the inherent safety in having armed citizens in public places very interesting.

Let’s assume concealed carry is allowed in a stadium or amusement park. Let’s further assume that a someone opens fire on the crowd. What happens next?

Those with concealed weapons draw them and look around for the shooter. What do they see? Several other people with drawn guns. Who do they shoot? How do they know which gun holders are the good guys and which are the bad guys?

I’m not opposed to concealed carry, but I fail to see how it works out in the proposed scenarios. Those cases with large crowds are terrible examples for the pro-concealed carry folks to be using.

This whole line is silly. First, Rep. Mell should simply state that she is working with the “well regulated” part of the 2nd Amendment. Second, the questioners should not take the line of suggesting that a city woman would necessarily feel safer with a loaded gun in hand.

Word i wasn’t advocating carrying in daycare but the amendments requirement for locked and unloaded seemed like a big infringement for daycare owner. As Arch pointed out they are already infringed to get the liscense which resolves that. BTW Arch thank for the info my mother-in law was considering getting liscensed to help with retirement that should put a stop to that.

Is Aroyo stupid what is the difference between carrying 1 and 20? On a practical note the darn things are heavy. He is complaining that phelps bill doesn’t limit number of guns you can carry at one time.

—Gotta say, I do NOT trust the Police to enforce that correctly. Even tho you’d avoid a conviction, that gray area is too much power to the Police. (and, again, this is something highly, highly unlikely to ever affect me directly)

It’s just a bad idea–if you are going to have a law, make it clear for everyone to figure out if you can store it in a car or convey it out of an area near your house. It’s better for the police and the person involved.