reply from No 10

LE

âWe the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital within the UK.â

Details of Petition:

âWith the growing numbers of wounded personnel repatriated to the UK and with continued growth in medically discharged personnel since the Falklands war to current conflicts and operations, our service men & women and veterans of previous operational service are owed the best medical care possible. The existing facilities are falling short and the NHS are not meeting the needs of veterans who still need treatment for their service related conditions. A dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital will greatly help resolve this National scandal since the complete closure of our military hospitals that has proved to be total folly.â

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Read the Governmentâs response
The Government is entirely committed to providing excellent medical care for the members of the Armed Forces and for veterans and we share the aspiration of the petitioners to see Servicemen and women and veterans receive the best medical care possible. However, we do not believe that this would be achieved by attempting to create a separate military and veterans hospital in the UK.

This position has been stated many times, and indeed by the MODâs Surgeon General who said:

âI am adamant that the interests of sick and injured Servicemen, both in peace and on operations, is best met by the current partnership between the Defence Medical Services and NHS Hospitals and that a return to Service Hospitals would be to the detriment of the increasing quality of care provided.â

This view was supported by the cross-party and independent House of Commons Defence Committee in a report on âMedical care for the Armed Forcesâ published in February this year. It found that:

âThe principle behind the decision to move from stand-alone military hospitals to facilities which co-operate with the NHS was the right one, from a clinical, administrative and financial point of view.â

The former UK military hospitals, which have been progressively phased out from the mid 1990s, increasingly failed to offer the range and volume of cases that military doctors, nurses and allied health professionals needed to remain at the leading edge of their professions. This is a pre-requisite for providing the best possible operational medical care which is at the heart of the Defence Medical Services.

That is why, in addition to the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine with its links to NHS hospitals in Birmingham, we now have arrangements with five major NHS Trust hospitals. They have all agreed to host MOD Hospital Units (MDHUs) to provide training, development and maintenance of the clinical skills of Defence medical personnel. The NHS hospitals that host the MDHUs are also close to military population centres, and so can offer local secondary care facilities for military patients living or working in the region.

It is precisely because our military medical personnel keep their skills at the forefront of increasingly advanced medical techniques by working in major NHS hospitals that our troops receive such unprecedented levels of medical care in our field hospitals in Iraq and Afghanistan. And, of course, our medical reservists who play such a significant role in our field hospitals have developed their life saving skills in the NHS.

We fully appreciate the need for Service patients to feel part of the military family, which is why we have already created a Military Managed Ward in the trauma and orthopaedic department at Selly Oak. When their clinical condition permits, our casualties are treated on this ward by a combination of military and civilian medical personnel. A survey of the military patients at Selly Oak in 2007 showed that almost all respondents rated their treatment highly.

The current military arrangements at Selly Oak will be developed further when the new NHS hospital in Birmingham starts admitting patients in 2010. The Chiefs of Staff strongly endorse this plan for the future, which builds Defence medical care into Europeâs largest and most modern critical care teaching hospital. The new layout of the hospital will enable the MOD, with the full co-operation of NHS Trust authorities, to introduce a Military Ward within the Trauma and Orthopaedics Division of the Trust. It will have special features for the exclusive use of military patients. The ward will have a quiet room for relatives, a communal space for military patients to gather and facilities for exercising. A dedicated military physiotherapy area will also be provided close to the ward.

Once the crucial hospital phase is over, and patients have received the most appropriate clinical care, we provide rehabilitation for military patients in a wholly military environment. Many go on to the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court in Surrey, which is a military establishment providing advanced rehabilitation for military patients in an environment that is inspirational and where comradeship abounds. In May, the Government announced an additional Â£24 million for the Headley Court site to be spent over the next four years to maintain and enhance the establishmentâs capabilities. Other less serious cases may go on to one of MODâs 15 Regional Rehabilitation Units in the UK and Germany. These military units provide accessible, regionally based assessment and treatment, including physiotherapy and group rehabilitation facilities.

In terms of providing a dedicated hospital for veterans, it is worth noting that since 1948 it has been the policy of successive Governments that the NHS should be the main provider of health care for veterans. The range of general medical treatment required by veterans is in most cases no different from other civilians, and it would be wrong to expect them to travel large distances to receive treatment at a single hospital, especially when excellent care is already provided closer to their home and families.

So while we fully appreciate why your concern for the welfare of our armed forces has led you to sign this petition, we hope you appreciate the reasons why we believe the current provision of hospital facilities for injured personnel is the right one.

LE

In terms of providing a dedicated hospital for veterans, it is worth noting that since 1948 it has been the policy of successive Governments that the NHS should be the main provider of health care for veterans

It took 60 years to close the military hospitals, if this is true why were they not closed under Thatcher, or even Callaghan? You could imagine that with Maggie's mandate she would have successfully shut down the military health facilities!

Its total bullshit, the land price where these hospitals are has grown and looked like a juicy return direct to the exchequer!

Old-Salt

That is why, in addition to the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine with its links to NHS hospitals in Birmingham, we now have arrangements with five major NHS Trust hospitals. They have all agreed to host MOD Hospital Units (MDHUs) to provide training, development and maintenance of the clinical skills of Defence medical personnel. The NHS hospitals that host the MDHUs are also close to military population centres, and so can offer local secondary care facilities for military patients living or working in the region.

I like the way they make is sound that RCDM Birmingham is similar to a Military Hospital - but in reality that and all MDHU's are (ususally) just a cramped, in need of much repair, buildings begrudingly given over by the NHS.

The military staff at these places are misunderstood by their civilians counterparts (if you are on operational deployment - they think you've had a six month holiday!). And when you're on exercise they think you're skivving off for a few days!

I remember when Telic kicked off - the NHS trust for the MDHU I was posted too complained bitterly to the Government and MOD because all the doctors, nurses, physio's etc... where being deployed! Despite the fact that it was stated in the contract that should a war occur that we would all go!

The Government ended up paying huge amounts of money for Agency Nurses, and locum doctors, to cover the deployed military personnel, because the NHS were moaning about their waiting lists etc...

But it doesn't surprise me that the Government said no - Even if 40 million people had signed that pettition the Government would ignore it.

That's why the Government won't hold any national referendum's - it means that they would actually have to do what the people want - and not what De Furher of Nu Liarbour wants!

'An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile - hoping that it will eat him last.' Winston Churchill

LE

An MDHU is just a cash generating machine for the NHS Trust that supports it. Everything else is secondary. Whist I accept that our A&E departments are like Baghdad on most weekends, the "training" has been to allocate miltary doctors and nurses to ordinary NHS wards where most of the patients arent anything like what they would encounter in a military environment.

First they came for the Communists but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists but I was not one of them, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews but I was not Jewish so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.
Martin Niemoeller

LE

Old-Salt

If any New (Lieing Barstewards) Labour politician is looking at this to try and judge on how this is being received by the great unwashed, guess who is never going to vote Labour again in his life and who is going to do his utmost to make sure that anybody else I know does the same.

Just in case you're wondering; I'm really, really fed up by this response from Brown; this Government has repeatedly let the Armed Forces down.

LE

Get off your hind legs and stop braying. Military hospitals was never going to float for hundreds of reasons, many of which were aired on these forums. Did you expect the Surgeon General to say they are a good idea - when they are plainly not? Stop living in the past and accept that they can't ever do that and integrated work with the NHS is the only option.

RIP

LE

Following our response to the e-petition Ã¢â¬ÅWe the undersigned petition thePrime Minister to create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital withinthe UKÃ¢â¬Â on 24 September 2008, we received feedback from some signatorieson the issue of hospital security. We can assure you that the security of our personnel admitted asin-patients is of the highest priority and remains under constant review.Each NHS Trust has overall security responsibility for the safety of allits patients. The main trauma ward at Selly Oak hospital has a swipe carddoor lock system, and we have good liaison arrangements in place betweenthe Royal Centre for Defence Medicine, the hospital, Special Branch and thelocal police. Similar liaison takes place at the other hospitals hostingMinistry of Defence Hospital Units, and any MOD concerns will be discussedwith the appropriate Trust security department. Prime Minister's Office

LE

Agree with the only post up there in support of MDHU's. It would be more expensive to establish military only hospitals, than to maintain MDHU's embedded in other NHS Trusts. The establishment of military only hospitals would neccesitate (sp?) more staff, more admin, more time and therefore more cash, which at the moment is not available. I agree that the units currently existing, especially in Birmingham, aren't ideal, and in my opinion the sooner we move into the new hospital in Birmingham, the better.

Now then, change please, you've had my 2 cents.

"The successful pilots succeeded because they did not open fire until they were close to the target." Grp Capt Douglas Bader CBE, DSO, DFC, DL, RAF

"Sir, if I lost all my men, both my legs, my right arm and all my front teeth, I would still be making my way to your location."

LE

Another agreement with the MDHU principle. The view laid out in the very long reply from Number 10 is entirely correct. Remember the Select Committee is cross party and took views from all parties with a view. Select Committees aren't known for kow-towing to the government of the day either and their recommendations are that what we have now is the best service clinically.

The point made about patients on NHS wards being nothing like what would be encountered on ops is plain wrong. If you go to the Field Hospital on Bastion you'll find that as well as the British, Afghan etc troops there are also a good number of Afghan civilians (including a substantial number of children) with a variety of health problems, exactly like you'd find on an NHS ward! A Field Hospital isn't just about trauma care, it also treats normal illnesses and injuries suffered by troops and the local civpop.

LE

The point made about patients on NHS wards being nothing like what would be encountered on ops is plain wrong. If you go to the Field Hospital on Bastion you'll find that as well as the British, Afghan etc troops there are also a good number of Afghan civilians (including a substantial number of children) with a variety of health problems, exactly like you'd find on an NHS ward! A Field Hospital isn't just about trauma care, it also treats normal illnesses and injuries suffered by troops and the local civpop.

Hear, Hear. It's my opinion that to aid recovery military personnel should recover in a military environment, however, it remains the case that to treat a wide variety of conditions/symptoms/illnesses/situations on one single ward, is not cost effective, nor is it beneficial to the patients. I believe that the health of our personnel, and the speedy recovery of them, is more important than grouping them together to protect both the military injured, and the civpop.

The argument against this is very valid, but the solutions put forward, of which one is a dedicated military hospital, are simply not feasable.

"The successful pilots succeeded because they did not open fire until they were close to the target." Grp Capt Douglas Bader CBE, DSO, DFC, DL, RAF

"Sir, if I lost all my men, both my legs, my right arm and all my front teeth, I would still be making my way to your location."

RIP

Following our response to the e-petition âWe the undersigned petition the
Prime Minister to create a dedicated Military & Veterans Hospital within
the UKâ on 24 September 2008, we received feedback from some signatories
on the issue of hospital security.

We can assure you that the security of our personnel admitted as
in-patients is of the highest priority and remains under constant review.
Each NHS Trust has overall security responsibility for the safety of all
its patients. The main trauma ward at Selly Oak hospital has a swipe card
door lock system, and we have good liaison arrangements in place between
the Royal Centre for Defence Medicine, the hospital, Special Branch and the
local police. Similar liaison takes place at the other hospitals hosting
Ministry of Defence Hospital Units, and any MOD concerns will be discussed
with the appropriate Trust security department.