After reading the "Pick of the litter" thread that I started, I am seriously considering what kind of pup is best for me.

Many of you suggested I get the most bold confident pup to give myself the best chance of a strong "never quit" hunter. You also said that such a pup maybe a PIA to train for the first couple of years.

I am an experienced dog owner, I have had dominant dogs before. However, I also have a family of six. Wife, mother-in-law, and three teenagers. All of them love dogs, but treat dogs as babies. They cannot handle a dominant, or high drive dog while I am away. This concerns me a bit.

Here's what I can offer my new pup: He will get out for at least one run per day, sometimes two. He will be in the bush about twice a week. I have found an online training course for gun dog puppies, that I will follow. My breeder is also training with me. I will be doing very short training sessions everyday for the first 5 months to lay the best foundation I can.

What do you guys honestly think? Should I go for the most dominant dog of the litter or get something a bit more laid back?

Is this enough for the bold pup you're all talking about? Or will this be too much dog for me?

Much is dependent on your personality rather than your knowledge. Dogs can read people much better than people read dogs. You have to have a more dominate personality than the dog and it has to be natural and real. If you have that dominance, the rest comes down to knowledge.

Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Pups in good litters should be pretty much the same across the board. Constructeur is right, what does the breeder say about the dogs he produces. Good breeders, breed for certain characteristics and should be able to answer with confidence what their objective are. That doesn't mean every pup ends up being the same but they should be pretty close.

Hicntry is correct also. Every family member has to understand the dog is not a pet for the whole family to treat as they please. Set down rules as to what is acceptable for the family and don't accept any compromise. The dog must learn that all humans are dominate, not just certain ones. They seem to figure this out even in the best situations but you must do your best.

Dominance really shouldn't be an issue. I think your real concern is drive and confidence and how to channel that in a way that best serves you. If you do your best to develop a working relationship with the pup from the very beginning, before the pup acquires bad habits, you'll have a pretty good dog no matter the personality it was born with. Once something becomes habit, your back is against the wall and the dog is taking aim at you.

I think regardless of temperament, dogs require consistency and good timing in their training. That is really hard to get from an entire household. Setting some ground rules for who and when persons in your household are playing/interacting with the puppy will be very benefical.

When I am training my puppies I am the only person training them. My Wife does not train the puppy. She does help me a great deal in the field work and eventually she has been able to handle each of our dogs in my absence. She grew up on a farm with livestock and is very good with horses, has watched alot of dog training videos with me, and assisted me in the field so she understands timing and consistency. And she is very willing to use the commands I have trained the dog to comply with.

I recommend you set some ground rules for how the puppy will be handled, and by whom, in your absence and that you be the sole trainer initially. The need for that increases if you decide to select a more independent puppy.

Personally, I think that the "average" guy is not up to the task of a super high drive dog, nor does he need one.

If you're a hard charging Havalah Babcock "... takes boots to find birds" kind of hunter, yes get the chainsaw.

But, they are high maintenance, require a consistent, stead hand, and most aren't up to the task.

I had 3 of them when I was younger. I'm not lazy, hunt as much as I can get time off, have a big running bitch that covers prairie when it's needed. But, she's biddable, puts birds in the bag, and does everything a versatile dog should.

I did zero steadiness training and she HOLDS point till I get there (180 yards and 20 minute hike in thick cane the record so far), and she's done 20 minute duck searches in flooded green tree impoundments for other hunting parties and not disappointed (no FF).

I still wouldn't consider her a dog with super drive... just enough to do the tasks and be a great dog around the house, in the pub, and in public for the 9 months that we can't hunt.

I love her to death, and 6-years of judging and research paid off in spades...

I dunno but it seems there are a variety of interpretations as to what dominance means? Dominance is social, has nothing to do with drive, confidence, desire or range. Good, mentally stable dogs don't naturally show a great deal of dominance. Yea, there's some stuff here and there when the dog learns what he/she can and can't get away with but over all, it shouldn't be much of an issue and this really isn't a dominance thing. Think obedience. If there are any generalities that can be attributed to dominance it's the difference in the sexes and socialization variables. Socialization variables are the owners ability to set proper boundaries for behavior through obedience training. Yea, there are some problem dogs, but overall, we shouldn't find too many of them. A dog that has to go out and prove him/herself at every opportunity, isn't going to last long with most of us.

Bidability, temperament, and desire in the right mix create balance. That combined with a bold dog is what I want. The first three are bred for. Some crosses throw the right mix with more frequency than others. Not every breeder's idea of what the right mix is will match yours. If you have done your homework and can get a bold pup out of the right liter odds are the pup will be what you want. As for family: establish you are the trainer and here are the rules. As long as consistency is maintained, the dog will most likely be more well adjusted being brought up around people. I wouldn't over think the family. Most of us have families and our dogs are part of them. The dogs just have to understand where they fit in.Willie

TruAblePup wrote:What do you guys honestly think? Should I go for the most dominant dog of the litter or get something a bit more laid back?

TP

I'd vote for something a bit more laid back. You're going to love the dog no matter what, and it'll be a PIA a fair amount of the time no matter what, so getting the best fit for your family is preferable to getting a high torque animal that nobody's going to like. Your breeder should be able to steer you to the best dog for your purposes. I haven't read the other thread but I'd say you need a griffon - they're lovable, clownish, biddable, and love to hunt.

TruAblePup wrote:What do you guys honestly think? Should I go for the most dominant dog of the litter or get something a bit more laid back?

TP

I'd vote for something a bit more laid back. You're going to love the dog no matter what, and it'll be a PIA a fair amount of the time no matter what, so getting the best fit for your family is preferable to getting a high torque animal that nobody's going to like. Your breeder should be able to steer you to the best dog for your purposes. I haven't read the other thread but I'd say you need a griffon - they're lovable, clownish, biddable, and love to hunt.

Thanks Bruce, but it's a DD for me. In know the parents (esp. the sire) and am excited about what they will produce.

I am going to let the breeder make the choice for me, because I will only have a short time to decide. But I will tell him everything he needs to know to make the best choice. He has a wealth of experience. It would be stupid of me to think that I could see something meaningful enough in a pup in one visit to out-weight the breeder's suggestion for me.

Dominate dogs are the essence of stable. That is why they are the leaders.

orhunter wrote:A dog that has to go out and prove him/herself at every opportunity, isn't going to last long with most of us.

Dominate dogs don't have to prove themselves. Normally, the only time there is a problem is when they come face to with an equally dominate dog.

I think Harvey is confusing dominance with aggressive.

Ignorance can be fixed but stupid is forever.Law of Logical Argument - Anything is possible IF you don't know what you are talking about.

"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, Jim Beam in one hand, Airedale in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

You say you have another adult dog in the house, a mother-in-law, wife, and three teenagers who "cannot handle a high drive dog while I'm away" and you're going to follow an online gun dog course for gun dog puppies, and your breeder (who is six hours away) will "also be training with you"? And your question is should you go for the most dominant dog of the DD litter or get something a bit more laid back?

Bruce Schwartz wrote:You say you have another adult dog in the house, a mother-in-law, wife, and three teenagers who "cannot handle a high drive dog while I'm away" and you're going to follow an online gun dog course for gun dog puppies, and your breeder (who is six hours away) will "also be training with you"? And your question is should you go for the most dominant dog of the DD litter or get something a bit more laid back?

How long (or often) do you plan on being away?

The Kennel who bred the pups in 6 hours away. The breeder with the stud dog is local. The local breeder is the one I already train with. I work from home, so I am not away often. But there will be times, when have to be out and cannot have a dog with me. Sometimes the dog will be crated, but other times when gone longer, my family will have to care for him.

Last edited by TruAblePup on Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.