Re: What's my type - photo included

Originally Posted by rainbow

intj

He might be, but the majority I INTJs I have seen have flaring nostrils and sometimes what looks like unique bulges on the sides of their noses. Even the INTJs I have seen with slender noses still have the typica flaring nostrils.

On the other hand, if he has a nose that looks like yours and you are INTJ or have seen an INTJ with a nose like his, I would tend to agree with the possibility that he looks more INTJ.

In that case I would say according to socionics you are most likely ENTP with some INTP tendencies or INTP with sine ENTP tendencies.

More than likely the former ... you should go to the www.socionics.com webpage and do some comparisons on the diffrences between the ENTP and INTP descriptions; should fit one alot more than the other.

Remember what I said about INTps and flat chins? Or perhaps long faces? Or maybe flattened cheekbones? Well, you, my good friend Steve, are more INTpish than is humanly possible. If there's ever been a face that looks more like an INTp than yours, it must be mine.

Your INTp friend,

Cone

Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

At the top of the the16types.info pages he says he's using the MBTI names. For all the introvert types the j/p is the opposite in Socionics. That means if the page says INTP it's actually refering to INTj. That's my understanding of it. Correct me if I've got it wrong.

Although I am using the MBTI-style type designations here

I'm pretty sure he means he is using the 4-letter system as opposed to the names used on the Russian sites, i.e. "Robespierre", "Balsac", etc.
(Once again, I would appreciate it if the admin or someone could confirm this.)

TiNe, LII, INTj, etc.
"I feel like I should be making a sarcastic comment right now, but you're just so cute!" - Shego, Kim Possible

Socionics MBTI Confusion - Yet Again

Originally Posted by Steve

At the top of the the16types.info pages he says he's using the MBTI names. For all the introvert types the j/p is the opposite in Socionics. That means if the page says INTP it's actually refering to INTj. That's my understanding of it. Correct me if I've got it wrong.

No, this is simply not the case. Let's just hear it once again from Socionics.com:

[1] First and most common fallacy is about relationship between Socionics and MBTI. The fallacy reads as following: "Extrovert types in Socionics and MBTI are the same, however Introvert types differ on J/P!". For example, Socionics INTJ is MBTI INTP and vice versa.

This is simply not true! For more explanation on the subject please go in here. Briefly, this is how it should read: "Extrovert types in Socionics and MBTI are the same, however Introvert types may differ on J/P under certain circumstances, otherwise they are also the same!" It means there is ON and OFF compatibility between Socionics and MBTI Introvert types due to the inconsistency in MBTI theory. When it's ON and when it's OFF is described in here. http://www.socionics.com/important.htm

So, if you have arrived at your MBTI type by taking (Internet)-tests, like the vast majority of us, your socionics type should be the same as your MBTI type. The difficulties in typing arise mainly because the judging/perceiving scale is currently rather poorly defined. Perceiving is often used almost interchangeably as a term for general sloppiness. Just keep in mind that all test currently available only reflect your understanding of your own personality, and your test result may or may not indicate your "true type".

There are several potential sources of error, including but not limited to the following:

Because of social roles and expectations women may test as ethical types even when they are logical - and vice versa. "The manly man" is very much a logical type and men with ethical types are usually well aware of this. Ethical types are also not necessarily nice in any way, the feeling/thinking scale is more about whether you have more confidence in expressing your emotions or knowledge - but even this is a bit oversimplified...

Many MBTI theorists correlate the perceiving/judging scale with the conscientiousness factor in the Big Five Model. The general perception seems to be that judging/rational types are anal-retentive workaholics and perceiving/irrational types are laid back, relaxed and irresponsible. This is often far from the truth... The P/J scale is tricky... Think rather: in a (romantic) relationship rational types want closure on T/F aspects (I love you today, tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow) irrational types want constant stimulation, (You are the greatest - no, now I hate you, oh but now I don't)

Intuition/sensing is a bit difficult too. Most type descriptions favor the intuitive types. To some extent the tests may confuse intuition with intelligence. There really are plenty of people with SF-types who have IQs firmly above the Mensa cutoff point...

Extroversion/introversion scale appears to be more difficult for perceiving types. Usually this scale is fairly easy though. If you are not sure try to think what kind of help and stimulation you might want from others - in a relationship or otherwise.

Generally testing based on the four scales if fraught with difficulties. Whatever type you get, you should try to check it against the type descriptions and other available information. Intertype relations may be "the hard bone of socionics", but they only really fully apply when you are in a close informal (probably ideally romantic) relationship where your behavior is not constrained by your social roles. Currently there are no fully reliable methods of testing available, so you can decide for yourself, and hope for the best...

One thing that curioussoul forgot to mention is that sometimes extraverts get mistyped as introverts because they are deviant expedient extraverts who don't comform to the rules of society or can't associate with society on their level. This has been indicated by the number of ENTps on this forum who have tested as INTps, but the test did not seem to be able to distinguish between the fact that the isolation was forced on them by society and not by themselves personally.

If you have personal problems and feel compelled to wirhdraw from society to deal with these problems even when people accept you and love you, you are an introvert. If society tends to withdraw from you or does not accept you and in result of that you feel alone and isolated much like an introvert, then you are a deviant extravert and should not be typed as an introvert.

The test will type both expedient extraverts and true introverts as introverts regardless.

Been thinking about this during tha last days. Right now I´m into two personal projects. They also represent my two.. in a way most dominant interests which I feel I must do. I am very interested in lots of other things anyway.

The first one comprises electronic products where I have two chosen to develop quite simple yet very inventive solutions that as far as I can imagine, "must" yield success.
This is something I feel to do all by myself. I know about every step in it´s realization from designing the functions, electronics, design, web pages with their design, marketing etc. All of these steps I know in ordered details. I don´t need any partner to it and besides I want all the profit myself :-o

The other project is making music with very high ambitions. I have thought about making music on my own, I can do it but I don´t have any place to be. I have all gear and studio gear and more. At home is my wife who is.. well and 3 children. I have no physical space though I can modify an area into having one but I think to feel relaxed and free to perform all this composing and studio work I need a calm environment. So I chose to willingly look for people, to work with somewhere else. I made a very descriptive (sorting in - in advance) ad and among the few replies one seemed ok and so now I have a partner with whom I hope I´ll get along with, in some constructive ways, in regards of musical aspects. It seems to be a rather "well raised" person with very ordered habits and social life although he doesn´t share values that I have. The worst is he likes scifi movies including with horror. When I realized that I was very disappointed. Afterall, as a musical team, 1 + 1 can be = 3. So is this an extroverted action by me?

The first project is introverted but the other is more extroverted.
Am I so much introverted as I have thought I am?

One thing that curioussoul forgot to mention is that sometimes extraverts get mistyped as introverts because they are deviant expedient extraverts who don't comform to the rules of society or can't associate with society on their level.

Your superego is showing.

As in defense mechanism? As in inner or outter locus of control? As in inferiority complex? As in unachievable moral standards?

You need to be more specific, there are lots of things to be said about the superego ...

On the Other Hand...

Originally Posted by rmcnew

One thing that curioussoul forgot to mention is that sometimes extraverts get mistyped as introverts because they are deviant expedient extraverts who don't comform to the rules of society or can't associate with society on their level. This has been indicated by the number of ENTps on this forum who have tested as INTps, but the test did not seem to be able to distinguish between the fact that the isolation was forced on them by society and not by themselves personally.

Yes, you are correct. This does seem to be a real problem - in typing and otherwise. Now on the other hand though, INTPs are subconsciously seeking extroverted sensing and therefore would want to go power driven, moneymaking, sometimes risky places, also probably for similar reasons: Although INTPs are introverts, some of them may behave in a very extroverted manner. Thus it is also quite possible that INTPs might test as extroverts. All in all, I think this is a complicated issue and some feedback from the resident INTPs would be appreciated.
(I am mr Vain. )

I still think it has to do with inner and outter locus of control and protection mechanisms ... I see that as something realitive and can be changed, but ot is up for an individual to see past what it is they are going through and overcome it.

And extraverted does not equal outgoing ... I think it is possible people are confusing the two.

I still think it has to do with inner and outter locus of control and protection mechanisms ... I see that as something relative and can be changed, but it is up for an individual to see past what it is they are going through and overcome it.

And extraverted does not equal outgoing ... I think it is possible people are confusing the two.

This has been pointed out repeatedly, but I think the problem is that sociability and "outgoingness" are kind of familiar everyday concepts that can be used for testing etc. Inner and outer locus of control and protection mechanisms on the other hand just sound too abstract. We should somehow be able to bring them down to earth and think of ways of conretizing the concepts for testing use etc. The old MBTI tie-breaker question: Do you relax best on your own or with your friends?, has certainly potential, but even that is oversimplified and misleading because we all need both friends and solitude - although in different doses.

I am not sure if I said it the first time, but the emphasis on whether someone is an INTp or and ENTp centers around the definition of love. ENTps seek other people to love them inspite of themself because they are rejected by society where as an INTp seeks to love others inspite of himself because of self-rejection.

And I also forgot to mention that while extraversion does not equal outgoingness introversion does NOT equal unsocialibility ... because you are unsocial or do not associate with people does not mean you are an introvert.

Was that clear enough or should I try to make it more clear so I am understood?

However, the INTp says that an INTp can act very extroverted at times. The same isn't said for ENTjs so I'm leaning much more towards INTp now.

Lol! Ok, I'm gonna say it. ENTJs can act very introverted at times. And it's true, as well. There's a quote that refers to ENTJs that goes something like "If I can't control it, why should I participate?" The meaning here is that an ENTJ can easily step aside from any situation and simply observe the flow of events. This can lead to long periods of quiet and introversion if the situation does not demand the ENTJ to act.

First eliminate every possible source of error. Thence success is inevitable.

After reading the profiles on socionics.org (translated through babelfish) I'm back to thinking ENTj. This changing back and forth is driving me mad though . Too much introspection is never good.

I realised however that the time when I was most isolated from people was whenever I got an Internet connection and ended gathering together a group of people online in order get some stuff done over the course of 6 months. The more I think about it the more I realise I end up in control of things. It's not something I conciously set out to do, in fact I remember once thinking it would be nice if someone else could take over being in charge of things all the time and give me a break.

I also read your post on another thread which describes how I handle my relationships with friends. I have a large circle of friends spread all over the place. Everyone realises that I'm generally always busy (I work long hours by choice) and will contact them when I'm ready to. I like to be in control of what I do and when I do it and don't appreciate people making plans for me. I tend to get a bit angry when it happens.

However, maybe these are also INTp traits. I really don't know. INTp and ENTj seem very similar in many respects so it's hard to distinguish.