“Following a strong campaign by your three Labour councillors and local residents we shall shortly see the long awaited extension of the traffic island on the approach to the mini roundabout at the junction of Knavesmire avenue. As a result of this campaign the improvements will RESTRICT THE ABILITY TO DRIVE THE WRONG WAY AROUND THE ROUNDABOUT.”

All the things that are happening to the people of our area and this is Labours’ main bragging point, the other being the iconic, their word not mine, Riverside House. The expensive development for the councillors.

Anyway I digress, I would ask that if there are people out there who are willing to assist me in my endeavours I would be happy to see them at my first street meeting in Dinnington. It will be held next Friday near the indoor market at 10:30am.

It would great if we could make a push and finally unseat at least one Labour councillor from Dinnington, those of you who can’t help, I hope you will vote.

Meeting 10-30am, should have put that in thanks for the reminder. Quite right Simon, I have a turnip named after me, Tweed does come from Woodsetts, he failed to get nominated there so was parachuted into Dinnington; where he is also a Town councillor. Thanks for putting this out there for me.

Dave, any plans to raise the greenbelt and the LDF plan as an issue? Rotherham Council plan to build 1100 homes in Dinno/Anston area over the next 15 years, about double the rate we’ve seen historically, it’s something all candidates should be discussing with people.

My feelings are that green belt is green belt and is not for building on, it is always interesting that when this subject raises its head houses usually come into it. The interesting thing is that it is always private builders building private homes, and not much needed council housing for the young people of our area. But even this should be on brown field sites,such as in Dinningtons case East street. This is an area of Dinnington that was old terraced miners houses and the old primary school, they were cleared to make way for the new school on one side of the road. The other side lay derelict for quite a while, now it is to be built on to provide yes you guessed it, private houses, including four bedroom dwellings. This land was council land, again I say where are the homes for the young people of Dinnington, bearing in mind that we are a high un-employent area; not many mortgages given at this level. I, as chairman, along with others have fought; and won, to save an area of green belt from having houses built on it in Dinnington.This is the old Miners Welfare, this will now be used for the benefit of the people of the whole area. I don’t just talk about championing causes for the community, I roll up my sleeves and get stuck in. I must say I am so disappointed that my friend Communitychampion will not be following my campaign. If he thinks my remarks about Tweed are insulting he has obviously never met him, I wonder if anyone out there remembers our illustrious councillor when he worked for Northern buses?

Personal attacks such as name calling are a class of logical fallacy known as arguamentum ad hominem. They usually indicate the challenger has not got any facts to work with. The rest of the comments contain non sequiturs, the fact the councillor does not reside in a ward does not preclude them from representing that ward in an effective manner. I suspect that the childish ad hominem attacks and lack of concrete facts to challenge over would mean Mr Smith, if elected, would prove less effective than the councillor he is intent on replacing. Perhaps the people of Dinnington would benefit from a town council which is reduced to name calling, somehow though I doubt it.

i agree with you toxophilist but in plain english i would call it bulling and being childish .and personally dave smith will not be getting my vote . i believe in a clean fight to get people.s vote not them kind of tactics what dave smith is useing.

Lets deal firstly with the fallacy of Simon Tweed and The Friends of Dinnington Miners Welfare. One, the group was going long before Simon Tweed came any where near us; it was started by a fellow retired Dinnington miner and myself. Two, Simon Tweed is not on any committee to do with the above group. Three, he has not done one thing to further the aims of this group, in fact he couldn’t even get the grass cut. If you out there, who have to remain anonymous, believe that a little bit of pit humour is nasty name calling you have lead very sheltered lives. instead of muddying the water with this rubbish, why don’t you ask me a political question?

Toxophilist, I hope you were not trying to score a gold with your wonderful knowledge of Greek and Latin. Your point about councillors not residing in the ward does not preclude them from representing the ward is correct. Your argument would have some real credence if the same rule applied to all the citizens of Rotherham. If I attend the council meeting in the area that Simon Tweed resides in, because I come from Dinnington, precludes me from speaking. If someone makes the same journey as Simon Tweed, from Woodsetts to Dinnington, they are precluded from speaking because they do not reside in Dinnington. Yet Simon Tweed is allowed to address the meeting, now I am sure that this type of poison arrow can not be seen as democracy. It would be difficult to be less effective than Simon Tweed. Now lets take your point that so called name calling is logical fallacies, from this it would seem your grasp of philosophy is some what askew. Are you suggesting that giving some one a nick-name violates the the rules of logic in the process of reasoning, through drawing from a proposition a conclusion that can not be drawn. It would be easier to give you a better answer if I knew if you were accusing me of paralogism or sophism.

Perhaps we could broaden the discussion by asking the question why does Simon Tweed, who has a full time job, claims, along with the rest of them, £13,000 a year to be a councillor. Whilst voting to get rid of workers, who are the only earner in their family and getting paid less than £13,000 a year. Cutting 1.5% off care workers wages the very people who are out their day in and day out doing the real jobs. The Labour controlled council have done nothing to protect the people of Rotherham from the ravages of the Condems policies. Instead of cutting jobs they should be cutting their own money by half. This is the real type of discussion we should be having, not whether or not I have given some one a nick-name. By the way mine at the pit was wolfie.

As the Greek and Latin terms could be seen as an attempt to score points I will reply in plain English as far as possible, but please forgive me if I continue to discuss the logic of the arguments. A logical fallacy is an argument that sounds plausible but is logically incorrect. For example I could say, “if I drop an egg, the egg will break, I dropped an egg and therefore it broke”, this is logically correct. If, however I say “if I drop an egg, it will break, the egg is broken, therefore I dropped it”. This does not follow logically, there could be other explanations for the broken egg.

As you mention and question paralogism and sophism, I will focus on those aspects of your posting.

First, the description of a councillor as having a turnip named after him. The only reference to this I can find is listed on this site and it appears you are the person who named the turnip. You then appear to use this as a way to undermine the content of a newsletter, this is known in logical terms as poisoning the well; using an unrelated statement to undermine an argument. Furthermore, the naming of the turnip is a personal attack in the negative and is what I referred to as an ad hominen, that is argument to the person, and here I would consider this to be an abusive rather than circumstantial class of ad hominen. Poisoning the well and ad hominen arguments fall into a class of logical fallacy known as informal fallacies of relevance where the argument is intrusive, that is an irrelevant point is made to try and undermine someone else’s argument.

Next on the subject of speaking at meetings. The first point is that the councillor is an elected person and is entitled to speak at that meeting, regardless of where he lives. You are not elected and therefore why would you expect to speak at a meeting in an area where you don’t live? Your entire argument is therefore incorrect, your conclusion denies the premises, as an elected councillor you have the right to speak, as an observer from outside the ward you don’t. This is classified as a formal logical fallacy, your argument, like the example of the broken egg does not logically follow.

Returning to paralogism, reaching an illogical conclusion is what you do when talking about who can and can’t speak at meetings. Sophism is the use of a fallacious argument to deceive someone. As I think we can establish the use of an argument which denies the premises to complain you cannot speak at a meeting, then if anyone reading the posing felt you were being unfairly disadvantaged in your inability to speak, then yes, in just that one argument you exhibit both paralogism and sophism.

What do I need it for, I will also be proposing that all councillors do the same. Town and parish councillors do not get this. Rotherham pay them selves more than they do in Sheffield, I would also say why does Dinnington need three Borough councillors. The amount of Borough councillors in Rotherham could be cut by a third, think of the savings there. As soon as any mention is made of making savings the immediate reaction is to attack the workers living standards and jobs. If all councillors, and this includes the leader, did this there would be no need to shed jobs, no need for the highest rent hike in the country and no need to cut wages by 1.5%. This is exactly why I did not take redundancy from the pit, I hadn’t spent a year telling fellow miners that they had no right to sell their jobs, only to sell mine. I can prove I am not a hypocrite can the rest of them who are re-standing for the council do the same?

three borough councillors in dinnington ,you say we dont need them ,so why are you wanting us to vote for you ,if you win you would be one of the three ?you say rotherham could cut borough councillors by a third ,if you get elected would you want to be one of the third you want to propose that thay cut ?

you miss the point, I don’t need the money for doing what I believe is right, I am putting myself forward to represent the people of Dinnington not to earn money. why must I have won the lottery or got a good job? What costs do these councillors rack up doing this? In the case of Dinnington go on the Rotherham website look for the borough councillors for our area, check out where their monthly; I repeat monthly, surgeries are. They are all on a bus route or within walking distance, they last for about an hour on a Saturday morning. Even if they attend two council meetings in a month, two hours each, then a bit of phoning around on the mobile phone supplied by the council along with the laptop. Where is all the work that warrants £13,000 plus a year? A carer working full time on the highest rate of the minimum wage of £6.35, looking after the elderly and disabled with all the responsibility this entails; will take home around £12,000 a year. This includes working unsociable hours, weekends etc. Who would you rather see have the money, and don’t forget these councillors are taking 1.5% off these people; telling them it is to save their jobs. Anyone with one iota of moral judgement can surely see this can not be right.. Just for the record I am retired and so have a bus pass.

Dinno voice if you vote for me I will propose that the amount of councillors can be cut by a third, this is to save money which in turn saves jobs and stops the attacks by a Labour council on the people of Rotherham. Another one who misses the point. If i win of course I would be one of the three, but if I do not win no one else will make this proposal. I would much rather lose the job as councillor than see workers sacked from their legitimately paid jobs. There is also an alternative, instead of cutting workers wages by 1.5%, allegedly to save their jobs; the councillors could take a 50% cut in their unnecessary pay to save their jobs.

yes mr smith you could ask the councillors to take a 50% pay cut if you were elected ,and you dont want your £13,000 but in the real world would any one take a 50% pay cut ?would you have taken a 50% pay cut when you was a num union rep ,if you was asked to ,how much was the pay for that job ,on top of what a minor earned,i wonder if it was on the same scale of a borough councillor?

Are you seriously suggesting that we should give these people a walk over. What kind of democracy would that be? Do you seriously want to urinate on the graves of the men and women of this country who battled so you and I could take part in elections. What you are proposing is the road to dictatorship, we already have a one party dictatorship in this area; and that is with elections. Or maybe you and Dinno Voice are suggesting an anarchic free for all. Again Dinno Voice you completely miss the point. No I would not have taken a cut in my legitimate wages I earned from working down the pit. The days when mine owners could cut the men’s wages because the price of coal had gone down were well gone when I worked at the pit. That was thanks to the men and their families who sacrificed everything to build our union. I thought these dark ages were behind us until a Labour council instigated wage cuts on its workers. Lets put this argument to bed once and for all, these councillors do not do a full time job, what they do can not warrant £13,000 per year. It is not their legitimate job, they put themselves forward because they allegedly want to help people, not earn a living from it.You should ask yourself this, if there was no remuneration involved how many of these people would be there, very few I suspect. As for the NUM I and all the other branch officials throughout the coal fields had no union pay on top of our wages. We earned our money by going to work, we put ourselves up for election because we wanted to help the men we represented. The only people being paid by the union were full time officials employed by the union, this did not include us. I say again I am standing for the position of councillor because I believe I can help the people of my area, not to earn a living from it.

Mr Smith, your point about how many of the current crop of Councillors would accept the responsibility of representation of the people without well-lining both their pockets and bellies is indeed well made. And the answer would indeed be equally enlightening to acquire from our town worthies. My bet would be very few at all.

Also please don’t forget that on top of their higher-than Sheffield City Council allowances they get pension contributions from RMBC, so they’re trousering a shedload of money each happy month from local taxpayers 😦

My feeling is that there would be vacancies galore in the Borough of Rotherham if the Corn Fed Grunters, Muppets and Clowns were called upon to do the job “for nowt a yard” as my long-dead collier grandfather used to say.

I can also recount him teaching me this interesting little ditty:
“Oh Lord above send down a dove,
With wings as sharp as razors,
To cut the throat of all them blokes
What chops down poor mens’ wages”.

He went on strike in 1926 and returned back to the pit on terms less than he and his mates walked out on. But principle and brotherhood was everything to the coalminers of the 20th century – and they were rewarded by that Tory MP Winston Churchill calling them “underground savages”.

Coalminers, past and present, deserve and should receive the respect and admiration of the British people, for it’s them, and not the Tory toff bankers and speculators, who put the GREAT in Great Britain.

what help can you offer to the people of dinnington ?,would you use your £13.000 to help local groups ,clubs e,t,c ? ,were would you have your surgeries ?and how long would thay last ?i hope its in dinnington ,may be in the resource centre ? because not every one has a free bus pass like you ,which is paid for by rmbc ,if you are elected what major plans and aims have you got for dinnington ?could we have a public swimming pool £13.000 would be a good start for a swimming pool fund

dave ive come to the conclusion the only people you are trying to help is yourself. you do not like the three councilors which you keep referring to because this a personal vendetta from last year when one of the three beat you in the borough election and i know you will be beaten again.

I am great-full to Grald-Hunter for his comments, but I am even more great-full to his grandfather and his generation who made the sacrifices.
Toxophilist, giving some one a nick-name can not be interpreted as an argument. If I had said Simon Tweed looks like a turnip therefore Simon Tweed is a turnip you would have a point. All I said was that there was a variety of turnip with the name Tweed, this is a truism. My suggestion is it was named after Simon Tweed, at the moment there is no proof that this is not true.

You should not lecture me on philosophy because you have just done your broken egg routine. Go to http://www.marshals-seeds.co.uk enter the word swede, rightly or wrongly where I come from this is another word for a turnip. You will find that this company has named one Tweed. Because the egg was broken you wrongly assumed I had broken it. The context of the newsletter is already undermined by suggesting that people are so stupid they need assistance on negotiating a traffic island. Had I said that Simon Tweed was a turnip your ad hominem argument would make sense, I did not there for your argument is false. There was no argument to undermine. Had Simon Tweed and I been discussing the rights and wrongs of this change to the highway and I resorted to calling him names because I had no logical points to make your position would be correct. This was not the case ergo it is false.

You state that the councillor, irrespective of where he lives is elected and therefore has a right to speak. This is true in the formal setting of the council meeting, where the citizens are not allowed to speak any way. My argument is about the public part of the meeting where logic would suggest that as a citizen of Rotherham I should be allowed to speak any where within its boundaries at the appropriate time. Although I reside in the area known as Dinnington, it is never the less within the boundary of Rotherham which makes me a resident of Rotherham. In an attempt to discount my argument you resort to your broken egg analogy, I have already discredited your use of this.

The argument around my right as a Rotherham citizen to speak in the public part of the council meeting is not deprived of proof. The proof is I am not allowed to speak although I am a citizen of Rotherham attempting to speak within its boundaries. This is not a superficially plausible specious argument, the events I have outlined are not a consideration of events out of context either. The argument about free speech is a valid one, it is neither paralogism nor is it sophism.

Far from lecturing on philosophy because I presented an analogy to illustrate the concept of logical fallacy, I am actually doing nothing more than commenting on the arguments I have seen presented in an article I stumbled across.

I accept there is a variety of swede called Tweed, this is a fact that is not being contested. However in highlighting this you have in fact confirmed the ad hominen fallacy in your linking the name of this vegetable variety with the person you are criticising. Do you have proof that the variety of swede was named after the councillor in question because of a resemblance between the two? If not I suggest the simile is nothing more than a crude personal attack based on the shape of the said vegetable and your view of the person in question. I have searched for his image and I see no likeness. Unless you can furnish proof of a link between the naming of the vegetable variety and the person you criticise, then your argument remains an ad hominen or in plain English, a personal attack by name calling. If we return to the egg analogy, you are suggesting my argument is ” if an egg is dropped, it breaks, the egg is broken, therefore David Smith broke the egg”. This is not my assertion at all and you have again committed a logical fallacy of a conclusion that denies the premise.

The argument regarding the meeting is I am afraid also guilty of a further fallacy, that is concealed quantification. In your response you do not mention the rules or accepted conventions of the meetings. Having carried out a little more research, you are conflating ward meetings with whole council meetings. I presume that the whole council meet in Rotherham, the Dinnington ward meets in Dinnington and the Woodsetts ward meets in Woodsetts. It would be reasonable for a resident of Dinnington to speak in the public part of a ward meeting in Dinnington or at a meeting of Dinnington Town Council, but a resident of Woodsetts would not expect to do so as they are resident in a different ward. It is reasonable that the case for the elected official would differ; they are elected after all. If you are suggesting you should have the same rights as the elected official then that is a further fallacy of special pleading; you are asking for a right no other resident of Dinnington would expect to have with no justifiable reason for that right. If you were prevented from speaking at the whole council meeting in Rotherham, then this would be a different case as you would in that case be speaking as a resident of the whole local authority. By omitting pertinent details you have defeated your own argument.

What makes me more certain of the ad hominem attack is, I must admit, my reading of your other posts. You give yourself the title “Comedy correspondent” and then proceed to use a derogatory tone in your description of a meeting, frequently applying names to people in an ad hominem manner to undermine their comments (Mrs Overall for example). This is saddening, if you have a legitimate question to ask, then don’t hide behind crude name calling, ask challenging questions. If there is a case you think needs to be answered, then present your case without cynicism, in plain English and without personal attacks.

Dinno voice, at last a valid question, it sounds like a great idea to use the money to help local groups. I would hold my surgeries where the people need them to be held, and they will last as long as they last. I believe it would be better to fight for a public swimming pool, than taking a photo opportunity at the opening of a private one. Anonymous I would like to know how you drew the conclusion I am just trying to help myself. Please explain your reasoning behind this false premise. For the other anonymous, there is no personal vendetta on my part, I am standing because I believe in helping people I take you missed out on the betting bonanza on the Bradford by-election.

Toxophilist, Laissez faire laisser fairer under lumen naturate intellectus which should lead to modus vivendi. No more obscurum per obscurius because omne verum omni vero consonat, after all omnis determinatio est negotio. You are in danger of qui nimium probat nihil probat. What should be paramount in all these discussions is salus populi suprema(est) lex, when vivere militare is true. You are in danger of sapping my elan vital and getting me into a state of de omnibus dubitandum. It has been nice talking to you but I believe experimentia est optima rerum magistra. Having been educated to nasce teipsum, which I do. I will carry on doing what I see as right.

I presume you mean nosce te ipsum? The joys of the spell checker and autocorrect?

I’m not sure there is anything in the discussion about the welfare of the people and while this is a highly desirable state, I would suggest your example of a road junction being altered to prevent drivers making a mistake and driving the wrong way round a roundabout would be a good example of something which in practical terms improves the welfare of the people. Surely if 1 accident is prevented someone benefits?

Regarding the swede named Tweed, you suggest there is no evidence it is not named after your councillor and direct me to a seed catalogue. If you apply slightly more effort, you would find that the variety Tweed is along with the variety Tyne bred by a company called Elsoms and they are their first F1 hybrids ( I can also explain F1 hybrid progeny if you wish). It is more likely that, as both Tyne and Tweed are rivers in Northumberland, that this swede is actually named after a river.

I’m not sure if I am being included in the “local Labour activists trolling you” group, but I am neither local nor am I a Labour party member and am certainly no party activist. As I said in an earlier post, I stumbled upon your posting on this site while researching a different topic.

I stand by my analysis of personal attacks, especially given that slightly more research would have shown that the swede was very unlikely to be named after a local councillor and was significantly more likely to be named after a river running through Northumberland and Scotland.

You are very good at assumptions, I meant it how it was written just because your book has down in a different way does not mean it is wrong; I still know myself as the inscription on the temple of Apollo states. Your other assumption that the turnip is named after a river is pure empiricism. Something being likely to be does not make it so, and the use of the location of the rivers to prove it is logical fallacy. You are drawing from the proposition that the company that bred the seed is based on Tyneside; their is a river in this area by the mane of Tweed. Therefore the seed must be named after the river, this will lead you on to the conclusion that tweed is the name of the river the seed is named after the river therefore all things with the name of Tweed must be named after the river.

It has been nice discussing pedantic semantics with you, but I have more important things to spend my time on; goodbye.

mr smith the name calling just reminds me of my school days i would have had the cain for what you are saying,if you are wanting a seat on the rmbc ,perhapes more time on telling us your polices and how you could make a differance ,might give us the voters something to think about instead of a picture of you being the school bully who in the end never had any friends ,it seems a bit low for a man who wants to represent the dinnington ward to stoop to such a level as mental bulling ,i dont think at the moment you are gaining any votes ,because i as a voter will not be bullyed into voteing for a power mad want to be councillor

Dinno voice which name calling are you referring to, my last reply to toxophilist, if this is the case please tell me what I have said. I am intrigued to know which school you went to where you would have got the cane for quoting Homo homini lupus est. You have a very strange concept of what constitutes bullying. Perhaps you could also explain to us all, who am I meant to be mentally bullying, do you feel mentally bullied by me if so in what way. Could you also explain on what evidence you are basing your premise that I am not gaining any votes. Toxophilist would have a field day with you, you are not voting for me therefore no one is voting for me. Could you also explain in what way am I, as a power mad want to be councillor, attempting to bully you into voting for me.

My policies are very simple, no redundancies for council staff, no hike in council rents, re-instate the youth centres and the workers who were sacked from them. No wage cuts for council staff and a refusal to carry out the orders of the Government. The only people who should be sacked and given a wage cut are the councillors who do not have the guts to defend the rights of the people they represent against the policies of the Condems. You may not remember Liverpool council in the early eighties, these councillors refused to implement Thatchers policies. They were stripped of their rights as councillors, so they occupied the town hall. That was a Labour council with the balls to stand up to a right wing Tory Government, the Labour party rewarded them for their courage by expelling them from the party. Can any of you out there see Simon Tweed and the rest of the money grabbers, having the balls to do this. These people would much rather keep their money, which includes a pension we are paying for, than defend workers rights. After all it was the workers who built the Labour Party.

Now could I ask you a question dinno voice, as the defender of Dinnington Labour councillors, perhaps you could use your good offices to arrange a public debate between myself and the rest of the candidates. I am sure councillor Tweed is just itching to cross swords with his opponents, please let me know when you have arranged it. thank you in anticipation of your help on this matter, from the power mad want to be councillor.

mr smith i dont think its me that should arrange a public debate ,that should be you ,and name calling in the school yard was a caneing offence,and a form of mental bullying,the name calling i am talking about is the simon tweed i have a turnip named after me ,if its not ment to bo offensive please do tell ,i can think of the surname smith linked to the apple or may be the bag of crisps with the little blue bag of salt ,now is this offensive or name calling ,what is your thoughts on this

This my friend is not name calling this is friendly banter among adults, my mother has been called granny apple by my kids for over forty years, she loves it; but then after all she is a adult. If I said that Simon Tweed looked like a turnip and had the mental capacity of a turnip, that would be unacceptable behaviour on my part, I have not done this. Pointing out that I have the same surname as an apple or a bag of crisps with salt in is true, why would I be offended by this? You asked me a question earlier on about my policies, I explained them. Yet all you can find out of all that is, a turnip, an apple and a bag of crisps to talk about. We all had nick-names for each other at the pit as I am sure all workers do, it is normal behaviour, as long as it does not include physical disability, race, colour or sexuality most nick-names are fun. One would presume you are from Dinnington and you give yourself the nick-name dinno voice, now someone else who has the same delicate sensibilities as you could find you referring to their town as dinno offensive. I thought you might cop out when asked to organise something, I cant arrange this type of meeting because it would not be independent of all candidates and so would not be a fair platform. Now if this is the best you can offer to further the political debate in this election the dialogue between you and I is finished, either ask a well formulated sensible question or don’t waste your energy any longer.

To finally put an end to this pathetic debate on name calling I would refer you to reports of last months Anston council meeting. Robin Stonebridge, an experienced Labour councillor, made a verbal attack on his fellow councillor Stuart Thornton. He said he was a paranoid fantasist and went on to say he was a waste of a life, another Labour councillor accused him of being infantile. These attacks came because he asked a legitimate question: so all you great Labour party defenders of Simon Tweed should look at your own party. Telling some one they are a waste of life is a despicable thing to say to any one. You will find nothing in mine campaign that comes any where near this, I am more interested in the politics.

Hi Dave,
Having read the juvenile quality of the responses you’ve received so far, my money’s on the fact that Toxophilist = Rotkehlchen Steinbrucke 🙂
Anyone else fancy a wager on this 6-4 favourite in the Dinnington Stakes?

If you can clarify what you actually mean, I can confirm either way for you. The name Rotkehlchen translates as Robin, Steinbrucke is a stone bridge. I am guessing your suggestion is that this is my name. You are incorrect in this assumption. A quick search reveals there is a labour candidate for the parish council with this name.

As I have stated, I do not live in the area, I don’t even live in the same county and am not grinding a political axe. I stumbled on this site looking for David Smith the writer of the Melissa virus, I have an interest in Skeptical issues and was intrigued by a statement on this page which was not a logical conclusion and chose, as I am wont to do, to add a comment and as you see enter subsequent discussion.

I refer you to the criticism of my comment making an assumption by David Smith on this page. it is logically fallacious to make an assumption in a discussion.

It amazes me that Dave Smith is so arrogant enough to think that people who don’t vote in the ward where he is standing still have no influence there.

He is so arrogant that he assumes because I come from Doncaster I have no connection with the people of Rotherham or with the people who will be asked to vote for him in May.

He is so arrogant that he sweeps aside any advice and charges through like a bull in a China shop without listening or thinking about his comments or how other people may perceive them.

Mr Smith has a lot to learn about politics and how to engage with people. Just because I’m not going to vote for you does not mean I am not going to be a danger to your campaign.

In conclusion, how do I get hold of this Labour hating power hungry wannabe? Does he have a telephone number so I can raise issues with him about where he will be standing? Does he have a postal address? Does he have an e-mail address? What’s his priorities? Why are those his priorities and finally, how does he he feel about being Thirlwell pot-washer?

Would you like to point me in the direction of my reply to you? Where have I said that because you come from a different area you have no influence? I am sure the tentacles of the Labour party reach out along way. What advice have you given me? If you have given me advice why should I take any notice of you? If you knew what you were talking about you would know that most of the information you ask about has to be published on the election information. If I was power hungry as you suggest I would have joined the Labour Party. I have already laid out my priorities, but as usual you, along with all the others ignore them. I presume this is because you have no constructive criticism to make. Just because I am using my democratic right to stand in an election against Labour I am accused of hating Labour and being power hungry. I also do not hide behind false names, you know who I am and what I stand for. That is because I know myself and have the power of my own convictions. The Labour party is no longer the Labour party that was set up by the workers of this country, it is full of political careerists. The only thing they are interested in is keeping their well paid jobs either in parliament or the council. They are not there for the people but in-spite of them. This drivel is typical of the majority of replies placed on this site since it was set up, There has been a shortage of any real political debate, all we have had is pathetic insults. you explain to me communitychampion, why these councillor should be paid the money they get, why should we be paying for a pension for them when they are not council employees. What gives them the right to cut workers wages or vote them out of a job. Why should the leader of the council have a private car? Paid for by people who are struggling to pay for petrol to get to work. I will tell you why because they will not make any waves against the government because they want to keep their nice cushy jobs. If you are what you say you are why are you not demanding that this Labour controlled council defends the people of Rotherham against the condems; instead of being their hand maidens. At a time when the people of our area are once again under attack from what is really a Tory government, as in the eighties and nineties, what do Labour do? Condemn workers for striking to defend their livelihoods, carry out policies that attack the very heart of our community. All in the name of saving money, all of you out there know that I am right when I say that the cuts should come from the money paid to councillors, not out of poor workers wages. A million pounds could be saved by doing this how many jobs would that save. Since this government came to power tell me one thing that this council has done to defend the Rotherham people, they have only frozen the council tax because they were ordered to. I call on all you council workers who are suffering wage cuts imposed by this council, or have been sacked, all you council tenants who are having to struggle to find the money for the massive hike in your rents, turn out on May the third and vote for me. Lets show these Labour councillors we are no longer prepared to stand for their money grabbing cowardly ways. Finally sorry can not wash pots for any one else too busy cooking tea and washing pots for my wife. As they say in the cartoons that’s all folks there will be no more replies from me to this inane drivel.

I’m sure that you won’t mind me using some of the traditional variations for your surname. There is no offence intended.

Hearty congratulations on stirring up such a hornet’s nest of hot-air from Da Rovrum Laybah Leedaz’ Fan Club, including the out-of-towner from Danum … when you attract as much stinging criticism as you have on here methinks that you’re on the right track.

Good luck in your campaign to shine the bright light of truth, democracy, scrutiny and accountability within the darkest recesses of Dodgerland …

IMHO you’ve got the Corn Fed Grunters, Muppets and Clowns on the backfoot and looking over their shoulder. If you postings weren’t of concern to them they’ve not bother responding to you.

I’m sure that you won’t mind me using some of the traditional variations for your surname. There is no offence intended.

Hearty congratulations from an active and empowered Rotherham citizen and community charge payer on stirring up such a hornet’s nest of hot-air from Da Rovrum Laybah Leedaz’ Fan Club, including the out-of-towner streetlight geek and dog faeces recorder from Danum … when you attract as much stinging criticism as you obviously have on here methinks that you’re on the right track.

Good luck in your campaign to shine the bright light of truth, democracy, scrutiny and accountability within the darkest recesses of Dodgerland … cos it’s sure needed.

IMHO you’ve got the Corn Fed Grunters, Muppets and Clowns on the backfoot and looking over their shoulder. If you postings weren’t of concern to them they’ve not bother responding to you.

Graldhunter thanks for the comments, my mum and dad were married for 62 years and right up to last my mum always called him Smudger; it was nice to have that brought back to me. Don’ t you find it interesting that there has not been one sensible political question asked during the four days. Thanks again for the good wishes, it’s people like you who make it worth doing.

Ok, let’s pull the name issue to a close. As I said a small amount of effort will reveal the truth behind the name. I made a phone call to the seed breeders who developed the vegetable and they confirmed it was named after the River Tweed. You made the assumption the seed was bred on Tyneside, I stated there were 2varieties Tyne and Tweed, the seed company are based in Spalding.

So where does this leave us going all the way back to your original posting. Your statement reads “Simon I have a turnip named after me Tweed” I have established the swede/turnip was bred by Elsoms in Spalding and was named after a river ( call them yourself, 01775 715000 ). Therefore your statement is factually incorrect. I will not go into my views of why you made the statement as that would be assumption and as you rightly say logically fallacious.

Your further point regarding the roundabout I feel was fully addressed in response to your comment on welfare of the people.

I consider my case in this discussion proved, you made comments that are demonstrably incorrect and should therefore retract them in this forum. I am not impacted by your choice to stand for election as I don’t live anywhere near Rotherham, but I would expect prospective community leaders to exhibit more care in their statements.

Could not agree with you more, when we have a government that is prepared to ditch the planning laws and allow our green belt to be decimated by private speculators. When our local councillors object to the building of a private school on green belt land yet a local Labour borough councillor tries to help them gain planning permission. And purports to be a member of the group that is fighting to save our green belt heritage. These are the real debating points, but it would seem Labour are incapable of taking part in this type of debate. They wont even open a dialogue on the changes they have made to the way recycling is carried out in the borough; I refer you to my letter in last Fridays Advertiser. You can only have the feeling that they need to keep the debate at the infantile level it has been at up to now because they are bankrupt of any real policies to defend the people of Rotherham. Why wont they tell us why they are not prepared to take a cut in their over inflated second wage in order to save genuine workers jobs, the people who have no other income? Why wont they tell us why they need to build luxury offices, have an expensive refurbishment of the town hall, At a time when they are sacking workers and cutting the wages of the ones who are left. Why are they giving council tenants the biggest rent hike in the country whilst using the excuse that most of the tenants are on housing benefit. What this says to the people they represent is that we don’t give a damn about you as long as we can carry on with our noses in the trough. Having instigated these type of policies would you want to get into a political debate? It is time for these people to feel the wind of change vote for me and lets have our own Rotherham spring.

Held the first street meeting today although it was pretty low key got accosted by one of the local Labour supporters. The only subject, as usual, came up, money; I was asked would I give money to the Dinnington resource centre. Then we discussed the subject of the money claimed by councillors, when I said Tweed did not need it because he already had a job, I was asked about those who’s job it was. I could not convince him that it is not a job it is voluntary, any one putting themselves forward is not supposed to be doing it for a living. He said if they weren’t paid we wouldn’t have a council. My reply was yes we would and it would be the right people doing it for the right reasons. Hopefully next week we may get a question about real policies, it would seem Labour are obsessed with the money question. Which says it all I think.

As a voter in another Rotherham Ward, unfortunately I am unable to cast my vote in your favour, but I wish you the very best of success in challenging the current Rovrum Laybah Group stranglehold on democratic politics.

I am sure that whether you are elected or not, you will be able to join the growing band of active and empowered citizens who have been teaching a very sober and long-overdue lesson about scrutiny and accountability to our Dear Leedah and his Corn Fed Grunters, Muppets and Clowns who think that the Feifdom of Rogerland is a rich source of never-ending voter revenue which can be directed towards them for ever more waist-busting junketing and inflation-proofed index-linked pensions at local ratepayers’ expense.

Rather then saying what Tweed does or doesn’t do…..tell people what Smith would or wouldn’t do…..I find it strange when folk ask you something your response is “Well, Simon Tweed does this, this and that”

Dave Smith is not in it for the money! Be good enough reason to cast my vote for him rather than the greedy graspers that are the usual candidates put up for Labour in Dinnington.
Simon Tweed is no exception to the rule! Especially the rule, that donkeys have the Red Rosettes on.

Because I am the only one not in it for the money, if I don’t get elected there will be no one to put the counter arguments to the Labour party. You may think I am only one voice but I can assure you I have a big voice. I say that the money, they say the government is making them save, should come from the unearned income of the councillors. Not from the people who are earning a legitimate wage. If we had less councillors with the rest taking a 50% cut there would not have to be sackings, wage cuts and rent hikes.

Being old and having got drunk with my kids and being a life long socialist I began to think what does it really mean. Had Sunday dinner with my family today, which I cooked. Got drunk with my daughter in law, who’s father worked at the the pit for forty five years. We began to reminisce about the 1984 miners strike, we talked about how we dealt with the shortage of food and fuel. How we shared and how my house became a focal centre. But then we got down to the real nitty gritty, the women on the picket line. How, when my wife was being arrested she threw the car keys to my daughter in law and said get the rest of them out of here. While I was hearing this it hit me in the face what real socialism was, caring for each other. When you are in danger you care about getting your associates out of danger. Do you seriously believe that this lot of money grabbing Labour party so called socialists would do what my wife, and hundreds like her, did? I do not think so. They were brave they stood up against the power of the state, at the risk of their own safety from these thugs. These pusillanimous people that call themselves Labour councillors do not have the guts to stand up against a state that is attacking the people they are supposed to defend. Bring back the women against pit closures, at least they had real fight. The state these men and women fought against was stronger than the condems but they fought. These cowards do not have the balls to fight and I say to them either you choose to fight or move aside because I choose to fight.

The problem for people like you history only covers a short period and you have never had to face the real force of the state. At nine years old I was on marches with my father, who up until this period had been a life long member of the communist party of Great Britain. The march was in protest at the invasion of Hungry by the Stalanists, the year was 1956. I was on the founding ban the bomb march, I was arrested for protesting against the Vietnam war. I was involved, as a miner, in the 1972, 1974 and 1984 strikes. I was involved in defending the Liverpool councillors who occupied the town hall against Thatchers cuts. I have not jumped on some band wagon safely putting comments on face book, I have been out there on the streets and on the picket lines, So don’t you dare question my credentials as a socialist. if you were challenging me on issues I would answer you, but the only drivel you can come out with is alleged name calling and some myth about me being a bully. Up to now this has been the level that the labour party has stooped to, because they have no policies other than to crawl on their bellies to the condems. Why aren’t you fighting against the cuts and sackings?. .

That really does take the biscuit, you attack me for wanting to speak to you about issues that affect Rotherham and so far I am not having much luck.

…then you list your very memorable achievements as a socialist but I’m a little confused…you see how I have been attacked on here for wanting peace and freedom in Palestine/Ireland, you call people names and generally act in a very brash manner yet still feel you can fall back on your previous actions, all of which sounds very sincere.

I have no idea where you get the idea that my memory is short…another assumption.

So, will you now step up to the mark, grow a pair and speak to me about issues that affect the Rotherham area? Yes or No will do.

yes mr smith i worked down the pit just like my grandad and his dad did ,during the strike we did help each other ,and yes i can remember the rumers about people who were eating well and had a £20 pound note to buy a pint in the stewt every time thay went in ,your comment on reminisceing about the strike brought these memories back to me ,but all through thay very hard times we were labour through and through ,you re the first ex minor to ever mention being a socialist i know of ,i think mentioning the strike like this just brings back what we all went through ,so please just could you just tell us the voters what you could do for us ,the cutting of wages and cutting the council by half are now old news lets hear something that you could have a chance of doing if you were voted on to rmbc ,name calling and mony talk is not what i want to hear about all the time ,lets have something new to talk about ,like what could you do for the young people in the borough ,or the empty shops in the borough ,it would be nice to know your what you think ,these are things that need sorting out just like litter and dog fouling ,these isues would be more topical and could have somthing done about them ,even low cost houseing ,i could go on for ever ,but all said and done lets change the record ,if your a socialist like you say help the people you want to represent and ask what thay want ,and why independant why not put your self up has a socialist ? if you have been one all you life ?

Labour through and through, Kinnock was the only Labour party leader not to turn up at the Durham miners gala since the Labour party was founded, this was during the strike. He was too busy attacking us in parliament. You can’t know many ex-miners if I am the only one you have heard call himself a socialist. The cutting of wages and the loss of jobs might be old news to you but it is not to the people it is happening to. It is obvious you have no alternative strategy to put forward to save the jobs. I have already stated what I would want to see happen, and the cut in councillors money could help achieve it, re-open all the youth centres closed by the council and re-instate the 29 youth workers sacked. On several occasions I, along with others have brought up the subject of litter and dog fouling at the town council meetings; it is always going to be looked into. When I asked how many people have been prosecuted for either of these offences the answer is none. There is actually a statute that can be used to force shop owners to keep the front of their premises clean. What use is it painting signs on the pavement, pick up or pay up, when there is no one to police the dog fouling offence. You only have to look how it is enforced in Sheffield. You bring up the subject of low cost housing, again a subject I have already dealt with, why are the council selling off brown field sites i.e East street in Diinington to private housing developers, with no provision for council housing. You talk of low cost housing when this Labour council for two years on the trot have hiked up council house rents higher then anywhere else in the country. Yet they still take their unearned income. The empty shops could be used as co-operatives to help the unemployed and young people to earn some money, or food co-operatives. Your Labour government had the greatest opportunity to nationalise the banks but chickened out as usual, if they had done this they would not have given the condems the excuse they have now, backed up by the parliamentary labour party and labour councillors to attack the poorest in the country. I am independent because the only people I want to influence my vote are the people I represent. For some one who’s first remarks on this site were, I am going to ignore your campaign communitychampion has been very vocal, well here is one for you, and unlike you I mean what I say, I am going to ignore you because quite frankly I have no interest in your bankrupt policies.

Dinno voice you need to stop pretending to be Les Dawson playing the piano. The points you make about the empty shops in the town centre is a valid point, but instead of asking me what I would do why don’t you ask Simon Tweed who was in the cabinet for the town centre what has he done in the last four years, Litter and dog fouling are again legitimate points so why don’t you ask Simon Tweed what he has done in the last four years to ameliorate these problems.

were do you get les dawson from ,back to your name calling i see ,is it simon tweed you dont like ? or is it the labour party you dont like ? you have not made one comment on the other two candidates ,or do you think thay have no chance or is it just a two horse race you and simon,and why should i ask simon the questions i have asked you ,cant you answer them your self?i want to know what you can do in the next four years ,not what some one should off or could have done in the last four years ,you are standing as an independant so why not stand on you soap box wolfie and preach what you can do and dont dwell in the past ,stop pointing the finger at simon ,you had the finger pointed at you during the strike ,did you like it ?

I think it’s time for a change, and looking at what your going to do looks great, just hope its not like Conservative, meaning false hope e.g. Conservative said Hospitals would not be changed and Education would be changed. We need someone who is honest and for the people of Dinnington. We need someone who will listen to Emails sent and act.

I suggested on the lad where 75 houses will be built on to make it a community garden area, where the public look after it and a place where, Dinnington Comp, Rother Valley Campus of RCAT and Dinnington Primary school’s could get involved and what a nice welcome to people arriving into Dinnington or passing through. But houses go priority. The old safe at last area I think would have been better place for new houses.

Residents were not really talked to much about the new homes, and permission was already given and residents could look at the plans.

We also need to make Dinnington back to more of a Town again and give the Town shopping area a face lift to attract more people and more bigger shops to the area.

The reason I am standing independently of any party is for the very reasons you have outlined, I wont hide behind nor be governed by party politics. The important people are not the politicians but the people they are supposed to represent; the problem is the politicians see it the other way round. Unless the land you mention, East street, was going to be used to build council houses, I would much rather see your plan instigated. A guy started a city farm in Sheffield and at first it got vandalised and animals killed, he went on the streets to the kids who had done it got them involved in the farm. Now it is thriving and used by disabled groups and young people. The project you suggest would be of great use in the same way. Our local borough councillors deal with planning, wonder where their loyalties were.

Thank You for you reply and very interesting hearing about the farm, its a cheaper way to give people things to do in the community of Sheffield and would save the council some money on charges.

You seem a person who knows what Dinnington needs and wants and aiming to help, all Labour and Conservative are doing is picking out there faults of each other, there like brother and sister fighting over who’s better instead of looking what actually matters. The £13,000.oo you say you would give up could go towards projects like, the community garden or something like in Sheffield or even the older people of Dinnington or update the parks in Dinnington e.g. skate parks.

I think we need to more events in the Dinnington area and put us back on the map to Rotherham, as more people who come to Dinnington means more bigger shops may come to the Town.

We still need to make Dinnington more safer place to be and live.

I think having you David as our Councillor may make Dinnington a better place, and having less of a dispute between Labour and Conservative.

There is a piece of derelict land owned by the town council at the end of Leicester Road, that they have been procrastinating about for years. It would be ideal for what you are suggesting, it is connected to the welfare site. Imagine what a lift it would give to this area of Dinnington, and when the welfare is up and running the two could work in tandem. Even if I don’t get elected I hope you will contact me and maybe together we could achieve this aim. As far as money is concerned you should also look at the amount that the other two borough councillors claim. this money as a whole could make a massive difference to the deprived areas of Dinnington. I agree that the more events we can organise the better, I whole heartedly support the carnival as a start. and town councillor Scott, an independent, is to be congratulated on his tenacity on get this organised.

Sounds good hearing about the land at end of Leicester Road, wish this was suggested by other Councillor but was not.
And the Carnival does deserve a praise, Should be good.
There is also the Car Boot at Dinnington Rugby Club, I find that is not advertised as much and people drive around for Car Boots and this could bring more people to visit the area.

There are many ways of putting Dinnington back on the map at low costs I think.

I find that closer to the Town Centre of Rotherham the better the area is looked after by Council compared to Dinnington which is more further out and closer to Worksop is not looked at as much and I think with the idea of the Community Garden at End of Leicester Road, Carnival, Car Boot, and more events plus more shows at the Lyric Theatre, I find that could change and the council may do more in Dinnington if the people increase in the area.

Of course this does beg the question if we as ordinary lay people can think of these things what are our elected representatives doing or have been doing for all these years. Just a line from Simon Tweeds leaflet “To continue working with colleagues and partner organisations to find solutions to community concerns”. He doesn’t appear to have found many answers in the last four years. The problems we have in the Dinnington area is one of deprivation, we have some of the most deprived areas in the country, when this is pointed out to the councillors they deny it. The reason for this denial is that if they admit to the truth they will have to do something to ameliorate the position. We have to have councillors who have the will to do some thing about our area but it would seem none of the borough councillors have this will, that is why I am standing for election because I really want to see Dinnington improve.

Does make you think what they were doing. I know we go a phone call and all that was saying is there are new house going to be built on the land and that means residents have suggested something but it’s put on a pile. And you can see Dinnington needs improvements to the area. Also I was speaking to someone about Rother Valley Assembly and they said there is a meeting and they have a bit of money and they meet in Harthill, and they said because a lot of one area go means that area gets the money, when its ment to be for the whole Rother Valley, and I thought Dinnington was the seen as the head area of Rother Valley and more buses go to Dinnington then Harthill, so wouldn’t Dinnington be the better option which would see other people from other area’s able to attend as there are more bus routes which go to and from Dinnington, compared to 1 bus every hour maybe to Harthill.

I think from what I have heard, you as our Councillor would make Dinnington for the better and not going for the worse.

1 way we can make Dinnington a better place is to get the community all together and make Dinnington an happy community and this may show Young People to have much more respect for there area. Young People in the Spring planting and having a laugh with other people and not hanging round Market Stalls bored out of there mind and that sometimes leads to them braking things. And all it takes in the evening is somebody near by to have a key and lock it up at the end of the day and opening it in a morning, and puts less cost on the council because a £1 lets say from each resident and Schools and College could donate some plants ect could go towards the community.

Looking at what needs to happen is not to hard I don’t think but is being made hard by the council at the moment.

Dave, you certainly deserve to win. Rotherham doesn’t care about Dinnington that’s obvious. In fact it’s difficult to see what they do care about, except themselves. It’s beginning to look like a Third World country in some parts of the borough,

When is an independent not an independent, two things I found out last night whilst out with my team. One the only independent Dinnington town councillor has a poster in his window supporting the Labour party candidate. The other is that in a neighbouring ward an independent states in his election leaflet that he will work closely with the Labour party. This is why I can truly say I am independent, the only people I want to work closely with are the people of Dinnington and the surrounding areas, the people who really matter.

Made me think looking at all of the candidates for Rotherham, some live not even in the area. I mean how can they be there for people and know what the area wants and need and most of time there in another village? I would like some who lives in the area to be my Elected member, more likely they will know what Dinningtion wants and put us back on the map of Rotherham and Rotherhams Remember list. I mean these now house put in Dinnington when there are already houses vacant, I wonder who’s gunna get them? I wonder what was wrong with other land in the Bourgh?? Cos this location ant the best place for 70+ homes.

I wonder where the talk with residents were and also I wonder if Dinnington have chance of getting first pick of one? Hehe.

if you are independent ,why have you not used you real name dave smith ? why comment under the name firtleberry?but then again that is being independent ,just like having a poster for labour in a window ,its your choice ,thats being independent

It would appear that I have to correct a misconception, some people have picked up the ball and run in the wrong direction. The candidate in a neighbouring ward is not, I repeat not Clive Jepson. Clive has been a staunch independent parish councillor in Anston, despite how he and his fellow independent, Stuart Thornton are treated by the Labourites. Clive you have my unconditional apology for any inconvenience this may have caused you. Just promise me one thing, please do not climb any telegraph poles, as desperate Hughes has done; to put up posters. Thanks Hilary for pointing this out to me.
Dave Smith

how come mr smith you have nailed your posters to the telegraph poles ,how come about two hundred of your leaflets were dumped near the silverdales ,your leaflets littering the streets of dinnington ,your posters on bt telegraph poles again littering dinnington ,the littering near the sillverdales has been photographed and reported ,not very good for a candidate thats wants dinnington to be a better place ,tut tut mr smith ,part of your team are not doing there job are thay ??

Sorry but I thought this was a free country, and that being indipendant ment that you were free to choose where your support goes rather than having to follow a party policy allowng the councillor to go against the official party stance on issues when they feel it is the right thing to do.Does this mean that if Labor, or Conservative or any other party raises a good point or puts forward a sound suggestion you won’t support it purely to remain indipendant. How on earth would you get anything done? I am pretty sure whoever this independant councillor is purely expressing their independant opinion as to which candidate they feel will do the best job.

This seems some what of an incongruous statement to make from some one who is anonymous. Being independent means just that, not being in the pocket of any of the parties. Not being a technocrat I was surprised it came up that tag that is why I put my name in the the latest twitter so that you anonymous people would know who I am.

theres a lot of talk about darren hughes being a turncoat ,well mr thornton was a conservative but now independant ,mr smith a soclaist but now an idependent so can us the voters belive that mr smith will be truely independent ,when we the voters know that he has socialist interests ,i dont think mr smith can be truely independent has he says when he openly admits that he is a sociaist ,so when is an idependent a true independent mr smith clearly is NOT INDEPENDENT

I did not realise that being a socialist meant one was a member of a party, or that one could not be independent of thought and deed. Being independent means I do not have to follow any party line I am independent of any influence of any outside force other than the people I would represent. The Oxford English Dictionary definition of independent is “not depending on authority or control, self governing, not dependent on others for ones opinions or conduct that is an independent in politics”. I think that adequately explains my political position.

mr smith ,why no comment on your littering of dinnington ? why mr smith no comment on what you mean by in there back pocket ? you comment on you being a socialist does not influence you being independent ,but you pull an independent up on there choice to have a poster in there window for the labour party ,but does this mean that thay follow the labour party ? it seems mr smith you pull any one up for things you think are wrong ,you only comment on the things you want to ,why do you think being a socialist ment you was a member of that party ?no one said you was a member of the socialist party did thay ?please mr smith comment on your littering of dinnington ,and explain what you mean by being in there back pocket ,or can you not answer ?

Re:Littering near the Silverdale/ posters
Mr Annoy Mouse (must be a mouse as you are not man enough to name yourself?)

Obviously you do not understand the difference between littering and political campaigning (but then you wouldn’t since it does not usually happen in Dinnington) All of the posters will be removed after the election – hence, this is not littering.

As to your derogatory comments about ‘Mr Smith’s team not doing their job properly’, let me tell you that Mr Smith’s team consisted of himself (he covered Silverdales himself), his agent and members of his family, including myself. Now Mr Anonymous, tell me just which one of these would have been the culprit that would have thrown 200 leaflets away?

If you have the photographic evidence, then PUBLISH OR BE DAMNBED. I am sure that any right thinking person will work out for themselves where the litter came from.

had a phone call to day about this site ,and i am surprised that i have been mentiond on it ,i dont like what you are saying about me dave hope you can explain what you mean whe i see you face to face on monday for the AGM ,STEVE SCOTT (SCOTTY)

First your anonymous and printing lies about me littering the streets of Dinnington with my leaflets, and yes I can prove beyond doubt it was you. Now you give your full name and allege you had a phone call about this site. Lets get real I am willing to face you at any time to discuss politics and what it means to be independent in politics, please acquaint yourself with my reply to you as anonymous; and the English Oxford dictionary definition of independent in politics. Being independent as an individual is different to being politically independent, at the last election you declared yourself as an independent candidate, thus stating you were independent of any political party. You stated your aims were to get the carnival back in Dinnington and if you care to scroll up this list to my reply to TA on April the 13th you will find I have given you due praise for your achievements in doing that. However to come to the matter of political independence by displaying a poster which declares your support for a particular political party it gives out the message that you have thrown in your lot with the Labour Party. As an ordinary citizen you of-course have the right to display what ever you wish, but having declared and become an independent councillor you then forfeit that right. You can not be politically independent whilst declaring your allegiance to an established ruling political party. This is not just semantics it is a political fact. I will not be discussing this with you in the annual general meeting of the Friends of Dinnington Miners Welfare as this has no place there. However I am willing to have this debate with you anywhere else. Having a discussion with some one about their politics is not to attack them personally, you and others should learn that. Because I have questioned your political motives in displaying the Labour Party poster does not mean I hold a personal grudge or that I dislike you as a person. I will state again, as I did on April the 13th, you are to be admired for your efforts in bringing together all the interested parties and achieving your aim in making the Dinnington carnival a reality. I am also grateful for your contribution to helping to save the welfare. The issues we have are political not personal and should not affect our personal relationship.

I have been reading through all these comments and have struggled to find any reason to vote for Mr Smith, you are continually insulting to Simon Tweed and more often than not for his aperance rather than his policys. I have read other articles where you call 2 lady councillers the ugly sisters of dinnington. As a mother and a victim of years of bullying I will tell you now catagoricly this kind of behavior is bullying, you may find it endeering and playful banter but to state Mr tweed is so big if he was a turnip he would feed a family for a week is not playful to the person on the other end! Even if you don’t like them these people are supporters of a lot of the groups you are involved in and to personnaly insult them damages everything they are trying to do. Also I am sorry this may offend many but the miners strike was a horrible chapter in our countrys history but thats just it, it is in the past, we need to learn from it but rather than regale me with tales of how you stood up and were counted then please actually tell me what you plan to do NOW. All I have lernt is you don’t like the labour councillers, you want the public baths back and you want a garden instead of houses on the old primary site. Given what has happened to the new primary vegitable patches and poly tunnels despite much imput form the local community this may not be the best use of the site. Our tunnels have been destoryed by vandels on several occasions, what community group is going to take the risk that their hard work won’t go the same way.
Sorry Mr Smith but until you can show me you are going to bring more than name calling and personal vendettas to the role my vote goes elsewhere

dave i am not anonymous have never ever been i say what i want when i want i dont have to hide,but i think you have been littering when you have your posters on bt poles ,i was under the impression that you had to have permission to do this ? a certain counciller has had to take there posters off bt poles in anston because it is ilegal to do so,and thank you for your comments on the carnival ,and yes you are correct when you say the agm is not the right time to have a face to face,i have not thrown my lot in to the labour party ,i am just exspessing my feelings to who i want to vote for ,i am an independent councillor on the dinnington st johns town council ,but when we have our monthly meetings all fifteen of us work together to make dinnington a better place, i have another three years to go yet but i hope i have made a differance in the year i have served allready ,and hope to carry on working with my fellow councillors no matter what banner thay are under for the next three years ,because its the person i want to work with not the party thay represent ,

The problem you have mate is that I have your business card with your email address on and I also have friends who are computer experts. I can prove you used the same email address on the anonymous, where you lied about the leaflets that my team had supposedly littered the streets with, and on the one you put your name to. So what you have written above is also a lie. Plus having talked to a Labour councillor I know you were delivering leaflets for Simon Tweed; not the actions of an independent councillor. Even the Labour councillors were surprised by your actions. So it may be best if you just write a retraction of the lies before it goes any further and then may be we can move on. You and your supporters had the perfect opportunity to discuss these matters at the meeting last night but no sign of them or you.

Its a shame that people have to resort to petty name calling and political point scoring while the real issues are put to the back burner. The most important thing in all of this is Dinnington and its people. This seems to be sadly forgotten right now.

The complaints:
That Dave Smith made derogatory statements comparing Simon Tweed with a turnip.
That Dave Smith stated that another, Steve Scott, was ‘in the back pocket’ of a political party.

Examination of evidence:
Every word published on Rotherham Politics, attributable to Dave Smith and every comment making claims or complaints about him have been closely examined, together with the identification of the true sources for them all.

Conclusions:
There is no evidence to support the complaints whatsoever.

Dave Smith did not compare Simon Tweed with a turnip, he said Simon Tweed had a turnip sharing Tweeds name! Quite another thing entirely.

As for impugning the reputation of Steve Scott, that accusation is also false.

Dave Smith was describing himself as, ‘not in the back pocket of political parties’. How this can be so misconstrued as to justify Steve Scott and others assertions that Dave Smith was accusing Scott of anything is not credible from the evidence.

There appears to have been, a deliberate and wilful misinterpretation of the statements that have been published here.

Facebook has been also been used to proliferate these erroneous and incorrect conclusions, adding to the offence caused to both Rotherham Politics and Dave Smith personally. This kind of behaviour is known as ‘Trolling’.

Dave Smith and this blog have been the victims therefore, of this ‘Trolling’!
Remedies:
Dave Smith and Rotherham Politics are both due an apology from the perpetrators! We both await suitable apologies from the perpetrators and the removal of the offensive material posted on Facebook. They could use the comments for this purpose or contact us personally under separate cover.

Sorry rothpol have to disagree on the turnip thing. People lets all take a time out and just ask ourselves when we bang away like this at each other how does it help solve the multitude of problems we have in this town?

Goodness knows I’ve been amongst the worst for getting in the bear pit over the years and been amongst the vainest of the big I ams butthose of us who wish to be active in politics whether its those who are brave enough to stand as Mr Smith or Mr Tweed are or those who want to exercise their right to hold politicos to account can we not at least show a bit of mutual respect (even if others don’t) and always aim to get to the heart issue or resolution of a problem that impacts on the lives of the 250,000 people in the borough because tomorrow nearly 2 out of 3 people will show what they think of us all by not exercising their right to vote.

if no evidence of the derogatory comments with reagrds to Mr Tweed why did I just re-read a comment in Dave Smiths report on the council meeting held on march 12th which states
‘Simon Tweed was congratulated on having a Turnip named after him, I have bought some for my allotment in the hopes they grow as rotund as him, they would feed a family for a week’? That sounds derogatory to me. Mr Smith then only a few comments up from here when directly asked if he was refering to Steve Scott states ‘if the cap fits’ with regards to the back pocket comment and despite the fact Mr Scott commented under his own nmae accused him of liying repetedly about an anonimous comment. It seems to me that Rotherham Politics should be renamed Dave Smith .com as it is a platform for him and not an unbiased comentator on local politics

I suggest you go back and re-read I said I can prove the anonymous comment claiming myself or a member of my team had littered the streets of Dinnington with my leaflets and that a photograph had been taken; also it had been reported; came from his computer. It has his email address attached, I can prove what I am saying beyond any doubt, I can even prove it came from his computer. So he is trying to mislead you into believing I am the bad guy by compounding his lies. The stuff about Simon Tweed all you Labour supporters are getting hot under the collar about is called political satire, have you written to the Sun newspaper yet to complain about their vile attack on the new England manager because of his speech impediment? Now that is not acceptable. Mr Scott did not put comments on in his own name until he was challenged to do so. I’ll give you a challenge when Steve Scott produces the photograph of my leaflets littering Siverdales I will produce the evidence to prove he put this lie on this site as anonymous.

Busy day tomorrow (3/ 5/ 2012) with being voting day! I would like the area of Dinnington to be different to other area’s. And they way that can happen is may be to have an Independent like you David. Labour, Conservative, and Lib Dems, have ruled to majority of the UK for ages and the UK is changing so maybe it’s time to change from the big parties. I am getting fed up with Labour and Conservative & Lib Dems at the moment, because there like brothers and sisters, and while arguing with each other there are people suffering outside the Houses of Parliament. And the truth is if Labour was in power now they may have only done when Con Dem has done.

Watch a party political broadcast other night, David Cameron Said and I quote “Vote Consecrative as we put more Police on the street” But how can you say that when you have cut the budge of the Police. Also we are faced with cuts to South Yorkshire Fire And Rescue, just thinking on that quote it sounds like a bribe to the UK to get them into running councils and in return there councils get more then Labour & Lib Dem Councils, because how can you maintain the front line with cuts?? South Yorkshire Police are having to maybe use PCSO and looks like Notts police are doing the same.

The three Dinnington borough councillors in the year 2010-2011, the Rotherham Labour council haven’t posted last years figures till after the election, claimed over £40,000 between them; for what? Yet we know there are another two hundred jobs to go from the council. I say again the only jobs that should go are councillors, we have too many in Rotherham, and the only wages to be cut should be councillors. If these part timers did this in order to save peoples legitimate lively hoods we might begin to take them seriously. In the period mentioned above Simon Tweed claimed £13,518.96 and as he says on his election leaflet; he works for Royal Mail as a sorting office manager. Yet he votes to sack workers from their only source of income and cut the wages of the rest; whilst claiming more than the yearly salary of a care worker. It is time this was stopped show your disapproval tomorrow and vote independent, that is Dave Smith.

That’s true, what has the £40,000 been spent on because it ant Dinnington, because nothing has changed in the last year except private companies building and opening shop. That £40,000 could have been use to make the Town Centre more appealing. And cuts were announced last year, but the Councillor still claimed close to £14.000 each, and that could have gone back into the council to look after the elderly and give young people more to do in the Dinnington Area.

Just thinking how many Councillor there are in Rotherham, that could pay for lot’s more things for the public.

So some Councillor have good paying jobs, but still want to scrape more out of the council.

Great Idea on the Rotherham Myspace but problem for the area’s such as Dinnington, Youth Clubs don’t finish till around 9pm, is it really safe for a 13 year old to walk from Myspace to the Bus Station at that time?? I don’t think the council fully thought that through.

If Rotherham also cared about Dinnington I am sure there would be something on there website to say what’s to offer in the town, but there’s nothing, I bet half of Rotherham ant a clue where Dinnington is, and I think that needs to change in the future.

With regards to the did you write to the Sun after their attack on the england manager, yes I did Via their website, to excuse name calling as political banter is just another example of why I usualy refrane from voting, Bullying is bullying is bullying no matter how you dress it up, If I saw any candidate saying things like that I would refuse to vote for them. i will state for the record I AM NOT A LABOR SUPPORTER, if I do vote I tend to vote for lib dem but after the last year I support the independant candidates. I did vote this year and didn’t appreciate the tyrade you unleashed on here damming anyone who dared to vote for anyone except you, I was under the impression we lived in a democracy where everyones opinion was as important as the next mans. I will no longer be visiting this Dave Smith for God blog I had hoped to read an unbias report on all things political but find Rothpol is firmly in Mr Smiths back pocket, oh an Mr Smith I don’t need to see any evidence of littering I saw your posters pinned to BT telagraph poles, just as another counciller was slamed by Rothpol for.

Your opinions are important too! Which is why Rothpol is happy to publish them.

The Labour Party’s total control of Rotherham must be challenged and should yourself or anyone else wish to stand against the Rotherham Labour Tyranny they can be assured they will get exposure if not our full support.

Rothpol will be covering the campaign and the analysis of the results soonest in much more detail and in a deal more objectivity.

Rothpol is here to help people hold their local politicians to account, wherever the ‘peoples business’ is being transacted. Nothing more.