Wild Nature,
outside commercial civilization,
runs on gift economy
("freely give, freely receive").
Thus it is balanced. Commercial civilization runs on thought of credit and debt ("knowledge of good & evil").
Thus it is imbalanced.
What nation can balance
its own budget or environment?
Gift Economy is Faith, Grace, Love
- the core message of every religion.
The proof is inside you:
Wild Nature is your True Nature,
crucified by commercial civilization.

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Tuesday, July 28, 2009

Blog Entry Deleted

For the first time in all my blogging, I've deleted a blog entry - my last one, "Bearing Las Cruces". I've been in meditation in this intense heat, & this is the decision that came out of it.I will freely admit it was laced with self-righteousness and was not producing a good spirit. The main points I was trying to make were overshadowed & totally misunderstood by reason of that self-righteous spirit. Thank you all for your comments in it. I listened. But I'm sorry I couldn't delete the entry without deleting your valid comments (albeit a few were hateful - but the hateful ones are also part of the fun).

66 comments:

It would, perhaps, have been more "honest" to leave the original post in place and add your words above as a comment. However, on one's own blog one certainly has perogative of deleting or editing an entry one is not proud of.

I'm with KK... it would have been better to leave the post as evidence of your fallibility and added an update or linked to a new post where you expressed what you had learned from the feedback. To err is human and we all make mistakes.

Removing any trace of your fallibility gives the impression you are trying expunge anything that doesn't accord with an image you have of yourself as being perfect. Leaving your "mistakes" for the world to see would have been the more humble act.

Still, it's your blog and you can do whatever you want.

I would strongly recommend you delete the hateful comments though. It's your blog and you don't have to put up with that. It adds nothing to the discussion. I doubt whether you would allow anyone into your home/cave who persisted in insulting you.

Consider not allowing anonymous comments if Blogger lets you do that. This is where most of your haters will come from. Or you could moderate comments.

I'm also with Anonymous about "Who is worthy to pull them out?". That sounds very self-righteous to me. It's not about worthiness, it's about who is faultless.

Some people can't face reality and prefer to live in their fantasy worlds. Instead of focusing on what is, they prefer to focus on what ought to be. Right Sean?.

I think it is extremely self-righteous to teach Suelo what he has to do. He admited it was the first time he deleted a blog entry, and it appears he has the same policy for comments.

And about the worthiness issue, I really believe Suelo is worthy in the sense that he is not afraid of doing what he thinks is right. That sets him apart from most people, who only follow the crowd. I am talking about a strategic worthiness, not about a moral superiority or anything along those lines.

By the same token, it is extremely self-righteous for Suelo to believe he has to teach us what we should do. Can we just agree that he has chosen a path that works for him, and leave it at that? If we all follow that path, there would be nothing left to put in the dumpsters, and then how long would Suelo last?He doesn't seem particularly enlightened to me, but then he has quite a following who think he's just wonderful. Whatever works. I follow this blog simply because I can't believe that being an unemployed homeless nomad is what people want to emulate. Whatever the lifestyle, you certainly have the gift of self-promotion, Suelo.AtlasGirl

Of course I missed out on reading the deleted post, but I disagree with those who believe you should have left it in place with a disclaimer of some kind.

If you've posted something you later feel was in error, then by all means delete it. There is enough misinformation on the internet already, and there is no guarantee others will find and read your disclaimer.

You should be aware that some folks might still have access to the deleted post. I was so interested in your blog that I created a syndicated feed on LiveJournal, so I could read it on my friends page. The original post still shows up there, although if I click on the link included in the post, it of course says that the original blog entry can no longer be found.

I don't want to distress you. I just thought you should be aware, for future posts.

I don't think your post could have been an "error" because what I remember of it was your feelings and your subjective experience. Sometimes that means feeling self-righteous, and that's just as valid. But as others have said, your blog is your blog.

Despite Suelo's now large following and unusual lifestyle, he is still a man like you and me, and I'm pretty sure he never claimed to be perfect- and he admits it here.

I read this blog now not as a follower looking to find enlightenment from a prophet of sorts, (no offense, Suelo ;) ) ,

but to learn from the perspective of a certainly unique man with perplexing and thought provoking wisdom.

And I haven't been reading it long, so I haven't gotten a chance to know Suelo through his writing, yet, but I don't think he views himself as a demi-god, either, to show us all the proper path through life. He just shares his.

Daniel, would you be interested in living in a community of people who share your values? And creating a local economy where people provide for their basic needs without any dependence on the global economy? Where the only exchange with the monster is giving people gifts and helping them out?

I just read this article. I have the same blood in my veins as Suelo. I only make $90 a month, if I choose. I live with an employed older recovering Vietnam Vet who pays the rent and utilities. In exchange for helping him overcome PST (which no on in charge seems to offer) and providing macrobiotic meals I get the dining room for my room.And boy it has been hard and at the same time he is really healing because someone cares. This is how I deal with a world gone corrupt. Can you image that the most cash I made was $9,000 in the late 80's and had to pay $2,000 in taxes etc. (when actual millionaire's didn't pay a penny.) So anyway from then on, living in an unmonied way was the only way to keep my sanity. I am glad because I am much more conscious of myself (diet, exercise, and especially what I say to others)I believe everyone has a right to be who ever they are. I live according to my capacity. I don't care who is self righteous or not. just be yourself and learn by your words and actions.

I just started reading your blog and I am very inspired by the way you are choosing to live. While I cannot embrace the lifestyle you live due to children and a husband, I do seek to simplify my life and look for ways to show love and gratitude for all mankind. Thank you for your dedication to your beliefs. My prayers are with you.

I read the blog and believe you were right by deleting it. I have thought about how you questioned that we live in “fear.” That is true but no one will admit it. The only reason I agree with deleting it was because of anger that you showed which goes against your very purpose. Besides everything I have read about you, I’ve agreed with everything else you have said. God, or whoever's "higher being" if you will, did not intend for man to live the way this nation or world is living. You have a good heart Suelo- and every man should respect how you live. I believe every man should set out on his own journey and find himself- this world would be a better place if there were more of you.

What’s most interesting to me after reading some of these quotes is how "commercial" men have became. So reliable on your own means; when you came into this world, you came with nothing. When you leave, you leave with nothing. The only things you need between the beginning and the end is food and water. The earliest society decided that we needed companionship and money, which has become lust, yachts and Cadillac’s. I’m sure you don’t know what “nice” is until you’ve lost it, but imagine never having it. Think of the million of years that cavemen spent before us to make us what we are today as human’s. Think of what they left for us to learn from them and pass on to future generations. Now what are you going to leave behind for mankind? At least people will consider Suelo a survivor, in this respect and maybe he is teaching others ways to leave more important things behind than their inherence.

I agree. I'm going to leave everything and set out on my own with no money. I will contribute nothing but my enlightenment, and help myself to the products of the commercial world--food grown on land that I don't pay taxes on, rides in Cadillacs on hot days, all the time denouncing how commercial the world is. This sounds great! I don't have to work again, just piss and moan about how no one else has achieved my level of wisdom and compassion.Thank you Suelo, for showing me the light!Peace.

Last night I had the thought that my biggest day to day worry is running out of money when I get old and becoming homeless and starving and freezing to death. I also thought that I worry so much about this that if it doesn't happen, I'm probably going to be angry at myself for worrying about it so much.

Suelo! Suelito! Don't feel bad that a few folks were critical of your last post. I think it was a great post and it got people thinking and discussing various points of views. Of course, the comments on this post are still peppered with the usual cynicism that plagues us. Never mind that. Just keep following your path and keep posting your feelings. Even those who do not agree with your choices are learning vicariously through your experiences. If they're so compelled to post, it's because you've stirred something inside of them... of all of us.

just had a look at your blog and FAQ. Good work. It's good to see someone taking an original approach to life. Dont get too hung up on internet comment and exposure though. Its as bad a trap as money ;)

Mr Suelo, I didn't get to read what has since been deleted but Please continue your writing and spreading your ideas. It is a timely and important contribution. You are conducting an important experiment. By sharing carefully composed essays you are fulfilling a basic tenant of evolution.

Philosophy and author Alian de Botton says we find meaning in making a difference in our community by way of either being able to alleviate suffering or produce delight in another human being.

http://tinyurl.com/mltcghTC 29:10

This is somewhat incomplete in that it ignores evolution and there is misinterpretation of evolution. Evolution is information building on information (i plus i). The energy transferred through evolution is propagated hierarchically which then overlaps to produce a rhizomatic structure. (i plus i)^x

Based on my definition most work is trivial & redundant, yielding a meaningless human experience for many, but not all. Those who are fulfilling the basic tenants of evolution are pursuing the leading edge of information and making new applications with novel perspectives. Factoring in figures on overpopulation, over-consumption and existing advancements the bar is now set very high for most people.

If I was a geneticist working on the space station and dating Björk I would be fulfilling the criteria. If I'm pursuing the leading edge of information through research and education I can stick around. So perhaps since I have developed this explanation and am broadcasting it I have saved myself from being evolutionarily meaningless. Perhaps not.

In any event, it turns out that my idea of framing issues in terms of evolution is catching on. See page 32 of Scientific American Jan 2009.

What we see are hierarchal information processing systems "trees" that are continually growing not pruned. There is plenty of genetic evidence to support that mutations and novelty outpace the pruning of natural selection. Problematic social systems ignore the support of lower hierarchal structures which I call integrated complexity (IC). By ignoring the lower hierarchal structures potentials for evolution are hindered and the time constraints to remain sustainable on this planet may be shorter than previously thought. If we follow our spiritual teachings we are simply on a directional path to reunification with whatever set the laws of physics into motion.

Just read an article that talked about your life. I am in the process of downsizing my lifestyle and I think you set a very good example. Most "needs" are really just wants that all seem to have a way of subjugating nature.

p121.2"It is traditional to think of logic as fighting with something". Since logic is fighting red-herrings, our work is cut out for us. We must discover the precise structure of the red-herring.

A red-herring is an irrelevant statement made in denial of (or affirmation to) some other statement. The red-herring has the form

(negative red-herrring)first speaker says:"X"

second speaker says:"but A"

audience concludes:"Therefore X is false"

(positive red-herrring)First speaker says:"X"

second speaker says:"and A"

audience concludes:"Therefore X is true"

The red-herring can derive conviction from several sources.

1) It has the same form as genuine objections.

2) The more truth that statement "A" contains, or the more generally believed that statement "A" is, the more it narrows attention to itself, distracting people's attention from the crucial question of its relationship to "X".

3) The more words or ideas that "A" shares in common with "X", the greater apparent relationship that "A" has to "X".

4) If "X" is unspoken, then "A" may remain the only idea that is noticed by an audience.

5) "A" can be simply wrong, and yet succeed, if it can not be double-checked or verified.

X: People ought to brush their teeth after breakfast, not before.A: But you are not a dentist.

p129.4first Suelo says:"X"

second speaker says:"but A"

audience concludes:"Therefore X is false"

The human mind or brain is not a truth-seeking engine, but a formula-driven engine that relies on a few formal structures to decide truth. Why do constantly have to be reminded that "To understand is not necessarily to forgive"?

p130.2The algebraic-geometric structure of the red-herring shows that common thinking, like syntax, is a process apart from meaning or truth. It is purely formal. The reader will have recognized that the red-herring is the argumentative arm of the more general class of cognitive mechanism called metaphor, which is the form "X is Z". A good example of a poetic metaphor might be "Life is a journey".

Human thought, for the most part, is not a shapeless force that gradually molds itself into truth. Thought is not a malleable clay; and the image of gradual behavioral shaping is certainly wrong. For the most part, thought is a simple structural formula of the geometric type that characterizes arithmetic and language, and probably has the same source, first principles. The illusion of plastic deformation in thought is created in the same way as the illusion of blending inheritance in genetics: numerous tiny steps.

Because of how our mind builds a model of the world every idea we have is an attempt to freeze a constantly changing reality. It is like picking up a piece of tar and trying to shake it off. The buddhists describe this phenomenon well from a behavioral standpoint. Now recent theory in neuroscience along with improvements in imaging technology are making some directional progress in displaying evidence of this extremely important phenomenon.

According to Jeff Hawkins, the brain forms "Invariant Representations" to build a model of the world. I propose these Invariant Representations are formed in much the same way as motion stabilization algorithms are used in video tracking software now available in many consumer video cameras. The brain uses a similar algorithm with all our senses inclusive with the dimension of time.

Timed input of information is the reason the mind can compare and draw useful analogy and connections between stabilized input from different senses. The mind is not matching precise information but the cadence, rhythm and interval in which it arrives.

Furthermore it uses the same process of stabilization and timed analogy to classify phonemes into letters, letters into words, words into concepts, concepts into ideas and so on.

This essential cognitive mechanism has the caveat in that it creates attachments to things, ideas, people, etc.... Human behavior as all things lies on a continuum. Further along the continuum we have gluttony and other destructive addictions. These addictions can be chemically enhanced. Chemicals taken either externally or produced internally. Patriotism is an addiction just as is a heroin addiction.

Furthermore we have our reptile brain and mammalian brain interfering with the power of reasoning and logic – the process that our neocortex grasps and maintains. The reptilian and mammalian brain functions evolved earlier. I classify them as lower cognitive functions that interfere with rationality. These areas release chemicals that are essential to elude danger but are also destructive to rational thought.

@Michael, I suspect there are all sorts of factors behind the discord. Perhaps some people misunderstand, or are ignorant of the FAQ, or hold cultural bias/ethnocentrism, or feel defensive about being called out, or are expressing sarcastic wit, or are voicing objections while silently agreeing to other points, or lashing out in jealousy, or under stress, or hung over from partying last night, or ate too much spicy food. Who knows... =)

Anonymous: Good try, but your simplification is so trivial even a primitive mammal could do it. Sorry it doesn't qualify as genius ability.

To all: My point was that if you want to understand Suelo's way of life, instead of complex nonsense, it is more effective to view his real intentions as reflected in his actions, not believing everything he says.

My theory is that Suelo is against society, against the right of people for private property, against society's work ethic. And it is not surprising some people take personal offense and get agressive with his moralizing and his attack on people's way of living.

Miguel--Have you ever heard of Ayn Rand or read Atlas Shrugged? Brilliant author, brilliant book, and this was the basis of the whole book. Primitive animals don't check their premises to sort out contradiction.I had no idea you were trained to assess intellectual ability--I'm impressed.

Somebody said:"Primitive animals can see an "A", memorize it's shape and correlate it with another "A". So you are clearly wrong."

What I think Abler is saying is we often see "A" but that it's easily corrupted into perhaps "AB" or "a". If all our brains are really processing is a pattern of input as Hawkins and many others are saying (and now proving with fMRI) it easy to see why human cognition alone cannot reliably find truth. Based on all the conflict I think its obvious.

Also, I'm saying that pursuing truth through some spiritual connection which arises through renunciation can allow us access to truth. I think, Abler calls or correlates truth with First Principles.

Regarding First Principles, the most elementary thing he describes is "discreteness". The universe exists because the periodic table has discrete elements. Things don't all blend together. 2+2=4 not the average of 2+2 which is (2+2)/2=2.

Abler spends a lot of time making the case that our minds cognate according to the same mathematic principles that are used in physics to describe matter and energy. When you remove all the distractions which invariably cause cognition errors the person (like Suelo) has greater clarity. I think the same sensation of clarity can arise when focused on doing what we are gifted at. I feel this is the case myself. I get the feeling that Suelo is in a sense a performance artist. (See The War of Art by Steven Pressfield) He doesn't seem to be gifted at creating music, dance or painting but he is likely gifted in this thing which he is acting out. The fact that he is sharing his thoughts is critical to the communication of an art.

What was in that post? It's unfair to "take down" a post before people have had a chance to read it. I was looking for days for an update to the jul 21 post and then I saw this one where you "took down" a post. What did you do? Eat at Mickey D's? Stay at Holiday Inn? Find a hooker? What on earth did you do to sully your perfect image? I was holding you up as an example of how to fight the system. Was I wrong?

Capitalism is the best economic system this Earth has ever known. Is it perfect, no. But it is better than Marxism and Socialism. I don't think Daniel shuns Capitalism, he just chooses to live outside of ANY economic system. He doesn't harm anyone in the process.

Serpo--You don't get it. Daniel is NOT living OUTSIDE any system. If he were, he would have the same experience in a Marxist or Socialist environment. Daniel is relying on the capitalist system, and the abundance of goods available because of it, to pull this stunt of his. Let's take him to Cuba or Chad and see how he fares. While he isn't actively involved in our system, he certainly relies on others' involvement in it to live. He doesn't harm anyone, but then he doesn't contribute anything, either.

To anonymous-He could sustain himself off the land if he had to. Just because he takes a pizza that was going to the dump anyway doesn't mean he is relying on others. Believe me, if the pizza would not have been available, he could have fed himself off of the land..... If he lived in Cuba or a similar dictatorship, it wouldn't be sustaining himself that he would have to worry about, it would be remaining a free man that would be his concern...... Everybody is so wrapped up in money, you can't eat money, dude. Daniel has realized this and could sustain himself completely off the land. That says a lot about him. It's like we are all drug addicts and our drug of choice is money... it brings out the worst in people

I have to agree with an earlier poster on this blog. You should consider dismissing anonymous postings from the blog. People should stand behind what they say to each other. Also, even though the use of 'anonymous' by mulitiple people, the postings tend to be read as coming from one voice. By not having each poster having a name to go with thier voice, you are diminishing the impact their sigular voice by having it muddles with the others of 'anonymous'. If someone is concerned enough about their identity on the internet not to have their real name posted, then they will already have an avatar created they can use.

I didn't agree with your statements, but they were your opinions and I wish you hadn't taken it down, but you needed to do what you needed to do. Get back to writing...I'm waiting for a next installment.

I have saved it if you ever want it back, Daniel. It was one of the most amazing things I ever read and really challenged my thoughts about life. Thank you for writing it and I hope James is doing better.

i was able to read your comment on Google reader even though it had been deleted from your blog. Glad of that. My wife and I hitchhike a lot in Europe and the UK. We are Christians too and, if we had a car, wouldn't hesitate to pick someone hitching up. I have often thought of Jesus words as you quoted them as I watched thousands of cars fly by us. And, when we were blessed and picked up by kind and helpful people, wondered how Jesus sees these people who do not acknowledge him yet do things that he calls honourable. So, I appreciated your post and it's direct challenge to us Christians. We need to hear it and, more so, we need to live it.

Capitalism and socialism are both great systems on their own merits. The first is great for economic activity and the second for political organization. Unfortunately both have their own limitations. If capitalism is not well regulated it can be problematic and unethical, and socialism can be terribly evil if power becomes more important than welfare and liberty.

Hey Suelo, I'm sad that I didn't get to read your original post, because I like reading your though processes. LOL, does that sound creepy? Well, I suppose you can share them with me, if you want, when you get to LA (yes, you're coming and staying with the CWs and me... you and I are going to Oregon...).

Don't let the haters hurt you. I disagree that you should delete the bad comments, because that would be "policing" and not allowing other people's freedom of speech. But you can see where the JCs are coming from now, in their mixed responses, can't you? I can't imagine facing all that heat.Love,-Grace

I have the full original post b/c it was saved in my google reader. So if you want to attach it to this post to let readers see it let me know.

I'm glad you changed your mind, as I had clicked through to your blog to leave an angry comment before i realized you had deleted it.

I'm a 23 yr old petite woman who lives in nyc and deals with a lot of creepy sexual harassment on the subways to work, and was violently mugged at gunpoint midday a few months ago, leaving me literally bruised and wary. So as much as I'd love to pick you guys up, I'm nervous letting two strange men in my car alone.

I dont know how you still feel about it, but I dont think its fair to deride fear. I dont like it either, i used to walk anywhere, any time without feeling like a wimpy girl. I used to feel exactly the same as you about people who were afraid to camp out with me in parks, abandoned buildings, etc. How can they be so closed, why dont they let the world / people in? But i'm scared to now. And i don't need a middle aged man telling me i feel this way b/c i dont have actual love in me.. I feel that way b/c two grown men attacked me!

Suelo--I didn't get to read this controversial blog but I have read a lot of your other blogs and I want to say thank you for the writing and for your life. Keep doing the work. You are right to be sensitive to being overly righteous. If that's why you pulled it, fine but please don't hold in the criticism of folks who are unkind--there is a lot of that on the Internet--they need love too but don't be brought down by their comments.

Jesus driving moneychangers & merchants from the Temple.

Sadhu of India

Call me Suelo

I lived totally without cents since Autumn of 2000 (except for a couple months in 2001) until the Spring of 2016, when I started caring for my aging parents, managing their finances. For 15 years I didn't use or accept money or conscious barter - nor did I take food stamps or other government dole. My philosophy has been to use only what is freely given or discarded and what is already present and already running (whether or not I existed).
I don't see money as evil or good: how can illusion be evil or good? But I don't see heroin or meth as evil or good, either. Which is more addictive and debilitating, money or meth?
Attachment to illusion makes you illusion, makes you not real. Attachment to illusion is called idolatry, called addiction. I simply got tired of acknowledging as real this most common world-wide belief called money! I simply got tired of being unreal. Money is one of those intriguing things that seems real and functional because 2 or more people believe it is real & functional!