danwismar wrote:"When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do, sir?" - John Maynard Keynes

But back to the topic of Terrelle Pryor...if anyone is still interested in talking about that???

Two questions I struggle to find the answers to, and would be interested in others opinions and thoughts...

1) Why the hell did Jim Tressel throw away his career for this guy?

National Championship. Beat Meatchicken. Top Tens. $$$$$$$$$$$$

2) We are now told that rather than selling a few items for a couple grand, Pryor in fact sold a whole lot of shit, assembly-line style if the reports are credible... for probably ten times that much. I'm sorry but I don't understand the "demand" side of this economic arrangement. I mean, even before his scandalous exit, how much would you (presumably Buckeye fans) have paid for a Terrelle Pryor autograph?

I think it's more a means of handing him wads of cash that was promised him prior (no pun intended) to Signing Day.

If Michael Jordan set up a stand at the mall, could he earn $40,000 selling his autograph? Probably. Tiger Woods, maybe. But how many others? College football players? Seriously?

e0y2e3 wrote:All of Buckeye Nation and the douche reactions we have been privy to by the effing apologists is a big part of the issue and frankly they deserve this.

I only brought up Dan as a follow on Peeks point re: Beat guys. It's often bragged here about having a front page that is as talented as any Beat reporter, so why don't the same standards of objectivity apply? <-- a fair question and one Peeks sort of answered and I moved on.

I am not quick to judge on any of this stuff because I am a homer (a fact that I readily admit). I prefer to wait for facts and corroboration and evidence, so that I don't start jumping some guys shit over a car that was rightfully bought. If Pryor is guilty (and I think he is), the facts will come to light. NCAA investigators are balls deep in OSU and Pryor's ass right now and I am sure if there is some hard evidence to be found it will be.

Right now we have the uncorroborated (but believable) testimony of a Antonio Henton's little brother. A guy that has an axe to grind with Pryor for a couple of reasons but probably most pertinently for being evicted from Pryor's apartment for not paying his share of the rent (seriously). Like I said, his testimony may be true (I am sure there are elements of truth to it) and if there is evidence it will be plastered all over ESPN for the next 6 weeks because reporting on OSU is ESPN's new hobby.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

I hope one day you go to court and are convicted on exactly the same evidence that you are passing your judgment based on. Maybe we can get an ex-friend/girlfriend to throw out some as of yet uncorroborated testimony and convict you on that while the DNA evidence is still at the lab.

That whole car thing has blown over, let's see what happens here. There may be a smoking gun and the NCAA and OSU may have it, but as of right now it has not been released. Don't get me wrong, things look bleak for OSU and more will come out, but until there is enough to "convict" I will sit on the edge of my seat.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Yeah, Tressel got shit canned and Pryor left school because there is an element of doubt

Pryor left school because there was no reason for him to stay. He wasn't going to play, so what's he gonna do - go to class?

Tressel got run because mega wealthy boosters trying to raise huge $$$$ for football couldn't reach their goals with a huge shit stain on the program.

Have your schadenfreude moment now, while it lasts. tOSU is a machine - bigger than Woody, bigger than JT, and certainly bigger than TPeezy. It will roll on, and the haters will always hate, and the homers will always be shills.

And PSU will always be tOSU's bitch. Now and forever. Amen.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

See thats your problem....I don't give a rats ass and you think you wear an OSU uniform so you puff your chest as if you won those games yourself...which I will mock to no end

Your program has been as corrupt as any other out there....and has only 1 title in the last, what, 42 yrs to show for it? .....yir not even Florida let alone USC or Nebraska teams past

The last time I wore a football helmet some kid from Mentor HS hit me so hard I was looking out of the earhole.

I am only a defender of the program when smart guys who are usually very good posters end up turning into trolls adding fuel to the fire and then fanning the flames with bullshit such as "has been as corrupt as any out there". In one of the darkest moments in tOSU football history you're simply over-reaching in an effort to enjoy your own little celebration at our expense.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

Sorry matt, but with all of the year of holier than thou (and I have been guilty at times) nose rising done by OSU Nation this is what you call people taking their shots when they can (just like after the two SEC NC losses).

OSU has the most out of whack arrogance to national achievement ratio going and it’s pissed off a lot of people.

It’s a karmic backlash.

Everyone here was running around high trotting and laughing during the Cam Newton thing.

Everyone here was screaming bloody murder about Reggie Bush.

Everyone here screams about oversigning.

“We’re better than them”

Say that enough times and eventually you’ll convince yourself (I did) and everyone else will just bide their time then strike.

e0y2e3 wrote:Sorry matt, but with all of the year of holier than thou (and I have been guilty at times) nose rising done by OSU Nation this is what you call people taking their shots when they can (just like after the two SEC NC losses).

OSU has the most out of whack arrogance to national achievement ratio going and it’s pissed off a lot of people.

It’s a karmic backlash.

Everyone here was running around high trotting and laughing during the Cam Newton thing.

Everyone here was screaming bloody murder about Reggie Bush.

Everyone here screams about oversigning.

“We’re better than them”

Say that enough times and eventually you’ll convince yourself (I did) and everyone else will just bide their time then strike.

Can't argue with anything you wrote. I expected the derision, and anticipated drive bys from SEC guy. Did not expect regular posters to go non-linear with hyperbole, however. Jim Tressel is a lying cheating coward who will burn in hell and tOSU deserves the death penalty It's not the hatred but the complete distortion of known facts which bothers me. But I guess when one of the richest and most hated programs falls, there are no shades of gray.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

See thats your problem....I don't give a rats ass and you think you wear an OSU uniform so you puff your chest as if you won those games yourself...which I will mock to no end

Your program has been as corrupt as any other out there....and has only 1 title in the last, what, 42 yrs to show for it? .....yir not even Florida let alone USC or Nebraska teams past

The last time I wore a football helmet some kid from Mentor HS hit me so hard I was looking out of the earhole.

I am only a defender of the program when smart guys who are usually very good posters end up turning into trolls adding fuel to the fire and then fanning the flames with bullshit such as "has been as corrupt as any out there". In one of the darkest moments in tOSU football history you're simply over-reaching in an effort to enjoy your own little celebration at our expense.

Dude....

"Over reaching" is not required.

Your Karma Return window is wide open, just like e0 says, and past pomposity must be paid back in full

Its just a law of Nature

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

Speaking out for the first time since his college career at Ohio State ended embroiled in scandal, Pryor appeared with agent Drew Rosenhaus and gave a brief statement in which he apologized to the Buckeyes, to his former teammates and to now-departed coach Jim Tressel for his role in the mess that may take down one of America’s proudest programs.

“I say sorry to all the Buckeye nation and all the Buckeye fans across the country,” Pryor said. “I never meant to hurt anybody directly or indirectly with my conduct off the field and I am truly sorry.”

Pryor had already been suspended by Ohio State and the NCAA for the first five games of what would have been his senior season this fall for accepting improper benefits, such as cash and discounted tattoos. The scandal led to Tressel’s forced resignation. Tressel acknowledged knowing his players were taking improper benefits but covered it up for more than nine months before Ohio State officials discovered his knowledge.

Pryor is Ohio State’s all-time leading rusher among quarterbacks, with 2,164 yards. He also threw 57 touchdown passes, tying a school record.

“In terms of coach Jim Tressel, a special shoutout,” Pryor said. “I’m sorry for what all went down and I apologize with all my heart. I love you just like a father. You taught me a lot and I apologize for putting you in a situation and taking you out of a job and place that you loved to be. I regret the fact that you’re not there any more and I regret the fact that I’m not there any more.”

The NCAA continues investigating all aspects of Ohio State’s athletic program, particularly the football team.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Terrelle Pryor will be a great -- not a good quarterback -- a great quarterback in the National Football League," Rosenhaus said. "He is going to be a star. This experience that he has gone through will galvanize him and make him a better person, a stronger person."

Rosenhaus said he spoke with Tressel before signing Pryor as a client, and that the former Buckeyes coach will remain involved with Pryor's future. "He's going to champion this young man," Rosenhaus said.

The agent, who represents many NFL stars, also compared Pryor to Cam Newton, the No. 1 pick in this year's draft. Some prognosticators have suggested Pryor may not be worth more than a fourth- or fifth-round pick in the supplemental draft, in which teams would have to forfeit a parallel round choice in the 2012 draft by making a selection. Others have speculated that Pryor may be better served changing positions.

"This league needs quarterbacks. Are you kidding me? Middle round for this guy?" Rosenhaus said.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Terrelle Pryor will be a great -- not a good quarterback -- a great quarterback in the National Football League," Rosenhaus said. "He is going to be a star. This experience that he has gone through will galvanize him and make him a better person, a stronger person."

Rosenhaus said he spoke with Tressel before signing Pryor as a client, and that the former Buckeyes coach will remain involved with Pryor's future. "He's going to champion this young man," Rosenhaus said.

The agent, who represents many NFL stars, also compared Pryor to Cam Newton, the No. 1 pick in this year's draft. Some prognosticators have suggested Pryor may not be worth more than a fourth- or fifth-round pick in the supplemental draft, in which teams would have to forfeit a parallel round choice in the 2012 draft by making a selection. Others have speculated that Pryor may be better served changing positions.

"This league needs quarterbacks. Are you kidding me? Middle round for this guy?" Rosenhaus said.

If TP becomes a successful NFL Quarterback, it would probably be the biggest turnaround in the the face of evidence the NFL's ever seen.

I mean, Cassel became successful in spite of NO evidence to support it, but TP? He'd be overcoming a MOUNTAIN of evidence against him being a remotely successful NFL QB.

Some people here have seen what I think Lockers chances are, and TP's channces IMO are orders of magnitude lower than Lockers.

I wouldn't have a word for how shocked I would be.

And Rosenhous is as douchy as ever. How does any executive sit at a table with this guy?

One as a receiver, one as a Dennis Dixon and one as a developmental guy. The other two are the Raiders who are bat shit crazy and the Dolphins would look for a 3rd QB.

So while I guess that qualifies as serviceable or possible it sure doesn't sound promising for tpeezy2.

That said, the Raiders are stupid enough to throw away a 2nd or 3rd rounder to try and prove they're smarter than anyone else. Then they'll angrily discard him in 2 years.

I hope someone does use him as a Dennis Dixon-type guy. Watch how fast he has some sense knocked into him with no room to run in the NFL and with his upright running style. That style is fine against Indiana or Penn State. It'll be a coming to Jesus moment in the NFL.

C'mon Dan. Seriously? This is nothing more than John Clayton speculating. Your constant defense/support of the kid is bewildering.

and here are the five teams that could possibly take a chance

(emphasis mine)

Of course there are teams that will take a chance. No doubt Pryor will be either drafted or signed as a FA. He's too good of an athlete not to be. Have you actually spoken with NFL talent evaluators who consider him "serviceable"? No? Neither has John Clayton.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

e0y2e3 wrote:Also notice that in this Buckeye Paradise there isn't even a mention of the first lost recruit from last years class.....

That is because I am not hanging here much anymore and I am really the only guy hear that spends a lot of time following recruiting. Ejuan Price (LB) is gone, there it is acknowledged. If it had been Curtis Grant, it would have been more newsworthy. No one ever really thought that Price was a strong commit and there were a lot of doubts about whether or not he would actually sign his LOI.

Even after signing his LOI, Price was waffling (before Tatgate turned into Tressel-Gate) because his cousin, Dorian Bell (a huge part of the reason he came to OSU in the first place), has been suspended for all of the 2011 season by the team likely for smoking weed. Bell was rumored to be transferring to Pitt, but they are not looking for character issues right now and turned him down. I wouldn't be even a bit surprised to see Bell transfer out in the next couple of days/weeks as well but it has nothing to do with the tat-stuff.

I am sure that you will paint this as me just being a Shill and not seeing the "real effect" of the sanctions, but whatever... Price was waffling before tat-gate and it may very well have been the straw that broke the camels back, but I am not all that concerned.

Ohio State landed 4 LBs (Grant, Shazier, Crowell, and Price) in the 2011 class, which is actually probably two LBs too many, and Price was the lowest rated of the 4. Ohio State's targets were always Crowell and Price with a prayer of landing one of Grant or Shazier. They got Shazier and Grant, when realistically most thought they were 50:50 at landing one of them.

Grant is a 5* all world recruit that projects to any LB position.Shazier is a 4/5* guy that projects WLB.Crowell is a MLB/SLBPrice is a MLB/SLB

Crowell and Price are largely redundant.

No shock here.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

swerb wrote:I think Pryor is really going to struggle his first couple years because he so desperately wants to be a NFL QB, but doesn't have the arm to be one.

I think if he embraces a move to WR, and works at it, he could be a very, very good one. The size and athleticism are obviously off the charts.

With the right team/system/coach I do think Pryor could be a very effective NFL player as a WR ... and a guy you could use at QB in some Wildcat and gimmicky stuff.

He is a too averse to contact. His last, best shot (sadly) is as a QB. He also is not a guy that is going to give you the great quicks required to get open as an NFL WR. Had he learned how to block, and maybe wasn't such a vag when it came to contact he could, perhaps have been a TE. He could get open against LBs, but not CBs.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

Okay. There's a pretty good understanding of where you come out on that. Not being critical of you or stepping on your right to have that opinion but that position is one you've already firmly established.

e0y2e3 wrote:Just kind of hilarious to see Face of Site Buckeye Writing (that knows about all of this as well) spend time out of his day defending TP but not acknowledging anything else re: the program.

Amazing that posting an ESPN article by Clayton is interpreted as me "defending" Pryor. The thread isn't OSU recruiting news, by the way. The discussion is about TP's NFL chances. I see an article about TP's NFL chances, and I post it. I thought that's what we did around here. Jesus.

My point in the last column and again here is that it only takes one team to like the guy's potential, and from there it's up to the coaching he gets and the way the chips fall. I've said I think his best shot in the NFL is as a QB. Others obviously disagree, and it will be interesting to watch how it plays out. I have said I have no reason to question most NFL scouts' expectation that he's worth a 4th or 5th round pick, and that there are all kinds of possible reasons he could fall flat on his face in his bid to become an NFL QB.

Now that EO has decided to critique me not only for everything I post here, but what I don't, I'll just say that losing one LB from the nation's TopFive-ranked recruiting class of...what 23 guys?...is regrettable but understandable...sorry for not rushing here to lament the horribleness of it all. I'm told there may be one or possibly even two more 2011 guys who reconsider. OSU has good linebackers backed up three deep. This too shall pass.

It's understood by most people who follow these things that there will be recruiting fallout from these events. Not sure what I'm expected to say...(although if I said it was daylight out, I'm pretty sure EO would go to the window to check.)

Losing Kyle Dodson, the 2012 tackle from Heights, to Wisconsin, is a far greater loss, IMO. And as Furls has pointed out, that's probably as much a function of Jim Bollman's inability to produce NFL OL's as it is the fallout from JT's situation. OSU inexplicably didn't even offer him until the day before he committed to UW. I'll never get that.

"I believe it is the nature of the human species to reject what is true but unpleasant and to embrace what is obviously false but comforting." H.L. Mencken

Dan just get used to the fact that once you hold a position in life, regardless of sports, politics whatever, you are held to that position 4ever! No matter what you write, say or do on the topic you will never be taken serious again, ever!

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Losing Kyle Dodson, the 2012 tackle from Heights, to Wisconsin, is a far greater loss, IMO. And as Furls has pointed out, that's probably as much a function of Jim Bollman's inability to produce NFL OL's as it is the fallout from JT's situation. OSU inexplicably didn't even offer him until the day before he committed to UW. I'll never get that.

Exactly.

Way off topic for the thread, but OSU OLine recruiting has been horrific for the last 5 years. The Buckeyes have put no one in the NFL on the first day of the draft from the OLine since Mangold in 2006 and have only had 2 drafted OL since 2007. Unacceptable.

Furthermore, they are blowing it on some very good Ohio OL by either waiting for top out of state guys that may or may not come to OSU (Seantrell Henderson, Psirig, Diamond, Goodman) while letting very good in state prospects go elsewhere by slow playing for these OOS national prospects (James, Dodson, Decker come to the top of my mind).

As for Pryor, his best chance to make it in the NFL is as a QB. If that makes me a Pryor fanboy than so be it, but that is the facts. You are not going to teach the kid to be a WR at an NFL training camp, nor is he going to learn how to block as a TE by practicing against Julius Peppers. He is a guy without a position in the NFL. That said, I think his likelihood of succeeding is somewhere in the Jamarcus Russell/Cam Newton area in as much as I think all of them are LOUSY NFL prospects..... Cue the douchebag who calls me Buckeye homer and questions WTF I think I am for second guessing NFL talent coordinators. I mean Newton is clearly a better QB, right? And his moral character.... way different than Pryor's.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.

That said, the Raiders are stupid enough to throw away a 2nd or 3rd rounder to try and prove they're smarter than anyone else. Then they'll angrily discard him in 2 years.

I hope someone does use him as a Dennis Dixon-type guy. Watch how fast he has some sense knocked into him with no room to run in the NFL and with his upright running style. That style is fine against Indiana or Penn State. It'll be a coming to Jesus moment in the NFL.

Something was almost certainly up with TP, but the car thing is tired (got to side with Dan on this one). The NCAA crawled up OSU's and Pryor's ass on this one and it was cleared.

He got a deal that none of us would get (a loaner while getting car repairs), but it was cleared.

As for the 7 on the Wonderlic, I could probably destroy that test, but I still couldn't play QB. Not exactly sure what calculating the volume of a sphere has to do with throwing a football, but whatever.

Coming from a Wolverine, we're the football equivalent of a formerly abused wife of a meth addict who just remarried the safe nice guy. We're just glad we have someone who's aware that it's a rivalry and that tackling on defense is integral. Baby steps.