Please-please no flames. I think I have fonally decided to bite the dollar and get LW. But all this Newtel/Luxology has me confused. Are they together? Are they creating 2 different apps? I would hate to have LW turn into 2 owner apps. Is LW good to go for 8? I dont want this to turn into a rumor bait. Just curious and want to make sure my investment in 8 wont come back to haunt me.

Thanks for not beating me up!!

Astral

03-05-2003, 04:29 AM

LW is a solid program

Every single company has rumors, concerns, and worry. Get it and focus on learning and not what might be.

NanoGator

03-05-2003, 04:51 AM

I can't comment on Luxology, I never understood that. Just letting you know so you don't feel that I'm avoiding/ignoring the question.

As for LW 8, no news on when that's coming out. I gotta be honest with you though, 7.5's great. Very complete. I'd be surprised if you felt gipped by it. I wouldn't buy it now just because you hope it's going to improve down the road. 7.5's got plenty of life to it.

For a little more, you could get Maya. Each app has it's strengths, and I doubt you'd be disappointed by either. I am curious what you want to do with LW, though. If you could provide some insight there, you could get some more feedback. :)

koon69

03-05-2003, 05:28 AM

At this point mostly print work but want to get more into charater animation. Maybe some small animations for clients. I see more and more cg being done for music videos and that sort. Kinda new to 3d. Used Pixels 3d and want to move to higher ground. I know lofty dreams!

koon69

03-05-2003, 05:30 AM

Forgot to add that I used Animation Master for a while it was flaky on the Mac.

NanoGator

03-05-2003, 05:39 AM

Maya's typically known for being stronger in the Character Animation area, but I have not used that and cannot personally attest to that. I can tell you that LW's pretty damn good for that. I'm starting in char animation right now and I'm not aching for Maya. I doubt I'd be aching for LW if I were using Maya either heh.

Yeah I know, it's non commital, but like I said I doubt you'd be disappointed with either.

But ya know, you can download an educational version of each app. Perhaps it's time for an evaluation? Give a coupla weeks to each?

Ibanezhead

03-05-2003, 05:58 AM

Let me ask, why do you want LW over some other app? I don't need to know, but it is a good question to ask yourself. Each package has it's strengths and weaknesses. LW is strong with Poly Modeling, Texturing, and Rendering. It is not the best for Character Animation, and many companies add Messiah to LW to get the proper animation tools. If you are serious about getting into character animation then I would go to cg-char.com and ask what they think...

My personal opinion is that Maya and Max have stronger animation systems than LW. But who knows, maybe 8 will change that. :)

Vic

JVitale

03-05-2003, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by koon69
At this point mostly print work but want to get more into charater animation. Maybe some small animations for clients. I see more and more cg being done for music videos and that sort. Kinda new to 3d. Used Pixels 3d and want to move to higher ground. I know lofty dreams!

Print work?...Then LW is definitely your package....All that great stuff done for Time and Newsweek. Look at the work Joe Zeff, illustrator for both magazines on the LW gallery...

As for Luxology?....All those rumors are just that. Rumors that won't die. Luxology has absolutely nothing to do with the development of LightWave. The team at Newtek is great. As for version 8, I don't know for sure when that will be coming out but Newtek is focusing more on workflow for subsequent versions of LightWave and not so much adding new features. This is what the studios in Los Angeles are screaming for so if they give the studios what they are asking for, the rest of us benefit...

Get LightWave...You'll be too busy learning it to worry about the next version not to mention you'll be part of the best CG community in cyberspace

twidup

03-05-2003, 08:57 AM

right now, hearing what all you have said, I would suggest LW to start with, simply because you will probably feel more comfortable with the interface than with maya, plus it tends to take a bit more to get up to speed in Maya for modeling. With that said, once you start getting into character animation, you should be fine with Lightwave still, but if not, you can do like a LOT of places and buy Maya to animate with and then use a utility called Beaver Project to export that back to Lightwave to render with. The reasoning for that is that Maya, even with mental ray included now, still has a shitty slow ass rendering engine.

Ibanezhead

03-05-2003, 10:10 AM

would suggest LW to start with, simply because you will probably feel more comfortable with the interface than with maya, plus it tends to take a bit more to get up to speed in Maya for modeling.

Isn't that a preference issue? Many find LW more comfortable, many find MAX or Maya styles more comfortable. Both LW and Maya supply ample poly modeling tools.

With that said, once you start getting into character animation, you should be fine with Lightwave still, but if not, you can do like a LOT of places and buy Maya to animate with and then use a utility called Beaver Project to export that back to Lightwave to render with.

Then why not just start with Maya? With this you will be spending $1500 for LW, $400 for the Beaver Project, and $2000 for Maya... The fact that "a lot of places" are moving over is a testimony to LW's inadequate Character Animation system.

What do you want to do long term? Do you want to switch apps in a year? Which apps have a proven track record with all aspects of 3D? Which do you feel comfortable using? Which fits with your long term and immediate needs? Which will benefit your resume the most? Which can you do print, and Character Animation in with ease?

Again, go to cg-char.com and ask their opinion on the subject, if you plan on going into character animation, not a LW forum...

Vic :)

twidup

03-05-2003, 11:13 AM

Ibanezhead,

I stated that he WOULD probably feel more comfortable in it. Most people I know prefer to model in LW/Mirai/Max over maya. And yes, its an opinion.

As for the other. THere are a LOT of people that find LW's character tools more than adequate, it all depends on what kind of character control and animation you are doing.

The primary reason for suggesting LW is that they will be doing a lot of print work, and LW has a good fast rendering engine that has been used in a LOT of print media. Also, until A|W fixes it, that is Maya's weakest area. So, I figured someone would prefer to spend the 1k on LW, and see how much it suits their needs, and if it doesnt cover teh character tools they need, then they can spend the 2500 for Maya and 400 for beaver and be ahead of the curve still( that is figuring 2500 for Maya, and then 10k for 1 seat of renderman)

make sense now?

Astral

03-05-2003, 12:52 PM

Ibanezhead

While I think you make some good point's. The bottom line in print media is he going to have no fun trying to produce the very high quality he will need from Maya's native render engine.

BTW if everyone was buying for the best Character Animation system alone then XSI would be the most sold period. It is better then the other's by a long shot. The program has true mental ray support. It has some of the easiest polygon tool's.

but it is expensive

I like Maya but it is not for everyone. It has become a bit of a fade now almost like Britney Spears for kid's. There is no question that in a studio where you have td's, modeler's, animation expert's, and manager's you can produce stunning work with it. Just take a look around here and other places... most of the work you see done with Maya from the normal joe working alone is about the same as you see from almost every other app. People are seduced by the power but I bet not even half (including me) can begin to understand alone how tap into it. Maya is loved and used because it is open in just about every way. The stunning work you see on film is done with renderman and a team that know's how to make it sing. You can hack it to do about everything you desire. I am sorry but people seem to think (I own Maya so now I can produce Shrek at home) and that is not realistic. Look at the Cathedral done by Max. Stunning work... and look at work with LW around here. Sticking a sniper rifle in front of someone starting out will not make them a sniper. It might even make it harder to grasp the idea.

Sorry to rant

Rabid pitbull

03-05-2003, 02:37 PM

am i lost???

this is the LW forum right?

listen to me LW is just as capable at character animation as maya. they can both do this and many many animations can prove this. Lightwave is a great package to use and the community is (ussually) very supportive, many many learning resources and boatloads of awesome free and commercial plugins. Get on the wave you WONT regret it.

I'm using LW on MacOSX. Primarily for print. I also own Maya for OSX, though haven't become as proficient as I'd like. I'd say LW would be a great place for you to start.

I agree with Astral--for smaller workgroups I think LW is more approachable. The native renderer is great. It's probably more friendly for 3rd party tools on OSX(mac) as well.

good luck!

Thalaxis

03-05-2003, 05:08 PM

For anyone who doubts LightWave's character animation capabilities... well, go look at Roughnecks.

Or check out SplineGod's stuff.

There are a lot of poeple out there using LightWave for character animation, and one big benefit of LightWave is that it's the only package in its price range that gives you everything -- modelling, animation, IK/FK, GI, soft-body dynamics, particles, and even hair right out of the box.

And for making the learning process easier, there's always ACS4 or TSM... :)

LNT

03-05-2003, 06:20 PM

LW animation?

check out what VelliAnti does w/ out-of-the-box Lightwave (http://3d.tunneli.com/index.html)

and shuddup! http://www.aoikenso.net/ap/cg/biggrin.gif

Rumpus King

03-05-2003, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Thalaxis
For anyone who doubts LightWave's character animation capabilities... well, go look at Roughnecks.Roughnecks was mostly mocap and therefore a poor example of LW's character animation abilities. I'd point to something like Facial Deluxe's stuff (he's on this forum somewhere) or some other non-mocap animation. Character animation can certainly be done with LW.

Thalaxis

03-05-2003, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Rumpus King
Roughnecks was mostly mocap and therefore a poor example of LW's character animation abilities. I'd point to something like Facial Deluxe's stuff (he's on this forum somewhere) or some other non-mocap animation. Character animation can certainly be done with LW.

Mostly? I hadn't realized that. Oops :surprised

Ibanezhead

03-05-2003, 07:06 PM

I could care less whether the guy gets Maya, LW, or Blender... I'm just trying to bring up issues to think about...

a better example would be pretty much anything Savage Frog has done, or Jimmy Neutron(not sure thw quality there, havent seen it)

takkun

03-05-2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Ibanezhead
I could care less whether the guy gets Maya, LW, or Blender... I'm just trying to bring up issues to think about...

Vic If only people could think for themselves :D

pre-emptive edit: I mean, people should try out all of the programs and view all of the reviews, galleries, animations and information about the apps and then come to an informed decision. If more people did their homework, there would be a lot less this vs. that threads that everyone hates.

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