PQ 8. Novopay, Minister—Statements

8. CHRIS HIPKINS (Labour—Rimutaka) to
the Minister responsible for Novopay : Does he stand by his
statement from over 16 months ago with regard to Novopay
“I want to see within three months a situation where, as
much as possible, workloads from administrators are back to
where they were before this thing started”?

Hon STEVEN
JOYCE (Minister responsible for Novopay): Yes, I do. I
appreciate the member might have missed it, given that he
has asked me only two or three questions during that time of
the 2,821 questions—

Mr SPEAKER : Order! Just answer
the question.

Hon STEVEN JOYCE : But I am pleased to
advise him that within 3 months of making that statement the
error rate, or the incidence of people overpaid, underpaid,
or not paid, had fallen to less than 0.5 percent, as
recommended by the ministerial inquiry. It has remained that
way for all but three start-of-year pay periods this year.
That is a total of 30 of the last 33 pay periods. For
example, in relation to the most recent pay period, pay
period 8, a total of 14 staff were notified as not paid, 15
underpaid, and 11 overpaid. For the benefit of the member,
that is 40 out of 9,953 staff.

Chris Hipkins : Is he
satisfied that the workload for school administrators is now
back to where it was before Novopay was implemented; if so,
what evidence does he have to demonstrate that that is
actually the case?

Hon STEVEN JOYCE : For the majority of
administrators the workload is back, as I said, as much as
possible to where it was before this thing started. There
are some administrators who are still finding challenges.
The ministry has provided payroll advisers to those people
to assist them with the issues they have.

Chris Hipkins :
I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I apologise to you and
to the Minister, because I know the noise was coming from my
side of the House. I could not hear the Minister’s answer,
and I cannot ask a supplementary question if I could not
hear what he was actually saying.

Mr SPEAKER : I am going
to ask the Minister if he would repeat his answer, because I
was having trouble hearing it as well.

Hon STEVEN JOYCE :
As I said, most administrators will find their workload back
to approximately where it was when this thing started. There
are some who are still having challenges, I agree. They are
being assisted by dedicated payroll advisers employed by the
Ministry of Education.

Chris Hipkins : Has he started
working on alternatives to Novopay in the event that the
ongoing problems with Novopay cannot be resolved; if not,
why not?

Hon STEVEN JOYCE : I am not sure that the member
should recommend that as the member who actually recommended
to the previous Minister to start the Novopay process in the
first place. He will forgive me if I do not take his advice
on this occasion, because I am sure the former Labour
Minister wished he had not taken his advice on the earlier
occasion.

Chris Hipkins : Did the Ministers responsible
receive advice prior to signing off Novopay’s
implementation that there were 147 known software defects
with the system and that “the risk of failure is high and
the consequences of failure serious” ; if so, why, after 2
years of this debacle, is he refusing to explore
alternatives to sticking with a payroll system he himself
has described as “a dog with fleas”?

Hon STEVEN JOYCE
: I am sorry the member does not understand this, but when
90,913 staff are being paid correctly and 40 are not, in a
pay period—

Andrew Little : Answer the question.

Hon
STEVEN JOYCE : —I am answering the question; hold your
fire—the simple reality of it is that it would make no
sense to put the staff through what Mr Hipkins now proposes
they be put through. But, then, his advice does not surprise
me because it was he who was advising the previous Minister
to throw out the previous pay system, and put Novopay in, in
the first place.

Chris Hipkins : Why should the taxpayer
have confidence that his decision to take complete control
of Novopay will produce better outcomes and provide better
value for money given that buried within the agreement he
has committed to making ongoing payments to Talent2 of over
$9 million for a system that does not work?

Hon STEVEN
JOYCE : Dear, oh dear! This is another example of why it
would have been a good idea to have a better ministerial
adviser back in 2008 than this one. The member seems to be
suggesting that the solution to Novopay now is to say that
we should not pay for any maintenance or any services over
the next 6 years of its use to try to prove that that would
be a good idea, and that Talent2 would still look after the
programme on that basis. This member was out of his depth in
2008 and he is out of his depth now.

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