Its named as a top tier card. So I guess Nvidia is up to its name changing game again. They should just call it a 660 TI instead of the BS.

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Or maybe not, maybe they are just adjusting to the games of AMD. HD5800 was the high-end and 5700 midrange and then suddenly HD6900 is high-end and 6800 midrage and then again 7900 and 7800 even though there's no need to leave room on the low end this time around, because there's no low end.

So 680 against 7800 seems right, because what would marketng guys do otherwise? It's their job to try and eveluate if going to HD6900 is going to make it look faster and Nvidia's marketing job to evaluate if it did hurt them to have a lower number.

Or maybe not, maybe they are just adjusting to the games of AMD. HD5800 was the high-end and 5700 midrange and then suddenly HD6900 is high-end and 6800 midrage and then again 7900 and 7800 even though there's no need to leave room on the low end this time around, because there's no low end.

So 680 against 7800 seems right, because what would marketng guys do otherwise? It's their job to try and eveluate if going to HD6900 is going to make it look faster and Nvidia's marketing job to evaluate if it did hurt them to have a lower number.

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But this is the 680 vs the 7900. Not 7800. Last two gens this would have been a 660 not a 680. AMD at least made it pretty clear they were changing the name. NVIDIA is just sand bagging and making things way more confusing then they should be.

Basically they are launching a mid tier card under a top tier number with no announcement. Its BS if true.

But this is the 680 vs the 7900. Not 7800. Last two gens this would have been a 660 not a 680. AMD at least made it pretty clear they were changing the name. NVIDIA is just sand bagging and making things way more confusing then they should be.

Basically they are launching a mid tier card under a top tier number with no announcement. Its BS if true.

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+1
which makes me wonder what are they going to call the top end gk110 cards on Q4?

But this is the 680 vs the 7900. Not 7800. Last two gens this would have been a 660 not a 680. AMD at least made it pretty clear they were changing the name. NVIDIA is just sand bagging and making things way more confusing then they should be.

Basically they are launching a mid tier card under a top tier number with no announcement. Its BS if true.

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Announcing makes no difference, plus we don't know if they are going to announce it or not. And at any rate it's irrelevant. Name is irrelevant. So what if it's called GTX680, as long as it beats HD7970. This was not the chip first intended to go against Tahiti, but it IS the one that will go against it. Who cares if it was first intended as a mid-range/performance card. What about HD3800, HD4800? They were mid-range sized (much more so than GK104) and sold like high-end (because of the name, just following your logic).

A name is just a name. FYI I was monstly being sarcastic, not that I'm not right on that. Nvidia has always been adjusting to AMD's naming change BS, if you want to call it that way, first with HD2000 to HD3800, then with HD5000 to HD6000 and last (maybe) with HDx800 becoming HDx9xx so they call it GTX680, so what?

Announcing makes no difference, plus we don't know if they are going to announce it or not. And at any rate it's irrelevant. Name is irrelevant. So what if it's called GTX680, as long as it beats HD7970. This was not the chip first intended to go against Tahiti, but it IS the one that will go against it. Who cares if it was first intended as a mid-range/performance card. What about HD3800, HD4800? They were mid-range sized (much more so than GK104) and sold like high-end (because of the name, just following your logic).

A name is just a name. FYI I was monstly being sarcastic, not that I'm not right on that. Nvidia has always been adjusting to AMD's naming change BS, if you want to call it that way, first with HD2000 to HD3800, then with HD5000 to HD6000 and last (maybe) with HDx800 becoming HDx9xx so they call it GTX680, so what?

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining it. You never complained about HD6000 series which was far worse, starting with the generational jump. Like I said if GTX680 beats HD7970, just like GTX 580 beats HD6970, just like GTX480 beats HD5870, then what exactly is wrong? What?

And I'm not saying I like all the games that both AMD and Nvidia play, but complaining about this particular case with the things they've done in the past is rather stupid.

I'm not justifying it, I'm explaining it. You never complained about HD6000 series which was far worse, starting with the generational jump. Like I said if GTX680 beats HD7970, just like GTX 580 beats HD6970, just like GTX480 beats HD5870, then what exactly is wrong? What?

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I did complain about it........and they announced the change AND priced accordingly. NVIDIA didn't even do that.

I bet they charge 580 prices for 560 performance per the 6xx generation so to speak. Its underhanded. People who dont know chip numbers will think they are getting a top tier card unless NVIDIA announces it. They will be paying for a top tier card and getting a mid-range. Its shady as hell and you know it.

Thing is, it's really not. It's the fastest card (single GPU) Nvidia will have to offer for some time. Once GK110 is ready to go, I'm sure AMD will have something ready to go at that time or shortly thereafter. This is good really, as things seem to be balancing out between the two companies thus more competition.

I did complain about it........and they announced the change AND priced accordingly. NVIDIA didn't even do that.

I bet they charge 580 prices for 560 performance per the 6xx generation so to speak. Its underhanded. People who dont know chip numbers will think they are getting a top tier card unless NVIDIA announces it. They will be paying for a top tier card and getting a mid-range. Its shady as hell and you know it.

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AMD is already doing that, but you call on Nvidia even when you have no f***ing idea what the price will be. You are complaining on an assumption, but refuse to understand that AMD is already doing the same. The GTX680 will be using a +300 mm^2 chip, just like HD7970 does and will probably/arguably beat it, and AMD charges $550 and Nvidia IF they price it that high will only be taking advantage of something that AMD did first. Like always one step behind in confusing/shafting customers.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but I'm just being realistic. If it beats Tahiti, why shouldn't they call it GTX680 and ask a price accordingly. I remind you that YOU are the defendant of capitalism, remember? I'm the socialist (not me, my country).

No people will pay for the performance, it's not nV's fault their mid-range chip may end up competing with AMD high-end.

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It's not mid-range b/c it's the fastest card they'll have till June or who knows when.

AMD can just bump clocks 2-300 mhz and b**** slap nvidia (not sure if they will since they like power savings, but I think they should).
Plus, they can cut prices some if necessary with improving yields. Nvidia won't have that for many months lol

It's not mid-range b/c it's the fastest card they'll have till June or who knows when.

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And that is the point, if it competes then the name fits and it's what people would expect it to be called. Sure they could call it the GTX 660 or LOLTahitiHEHE if they wanted, not that it matters either way.

I did complain about it........and they announced the change AND priced accordingly. NVIDIA didn't even do that.

I bet they charge 580 prices for 560 performance per the 6xx generation so to speak. Its underhanded. People who dont know chip numbers will think they are getting a top tier card unless NVIDIA announces it. They will be paying for a top tier card and getting a mid-range. Its shady as hell and you know it.

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+1 and that in part is why im starting to dislike nvidia as a company because a GTX560SE GTX560 and a GTX560TI exist on the same shelves too, the names just dont fit what they are selling it on sometimes, at all

and its allegedly better then an un clocked 7970 in compute only , we all know that balls to the wall the 7970 will clock higher and ultimately perform better then this speculation would OC imho, as they are already clearly capable of higher clocks Ala the boost feature, just not capable of maintaining them over time as i see it , it dosnt sound like OCérs delight

AMD is already doing that, but you call on Nvidia even when you have no f***ing idea what the price will be. You are complaining on an assumption, but refuse to understand that AMD is already doing the same. The GTX680 will be using a +300 mm^2 chip, just like HD7970 does and will probably/arguably beat it, and AMD charges $550 and Nvidia IF they price it that high will only be taking advantage of something that AMD did first. Like always one step behind in confusing/shafting customers.

I don't like it anymore than you do, but I'm just being realistic. If it beats Tahiti, why shouldn't they call it GTX680 and ask a price accordingly. I remind you that YOU are the defendant of capitalism, remember? I'm the socialist (not me, my country).

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I never said they didn't have a right to name it whatever they want. Its just a shady practice.

I did complain about it........and they announced the change AND priced accordingly. NVIDIA didn't even do that.

I bet they charge 580 prices for 560 performance per the 6xx generation so to speak. Its underhanded. People who dont know chip numbers will think they are getting a top tier card unless NVIDIA announces it. They will be paying for a top tier card and getting a mid-range. Its shady as hell and you know it.

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NV is operating in a market. So what happens when your competition is launching a high-end card that is slower than what you expected? In fact, it's slower than your mid-range, performance whatever card which you happen to have ready. Your high-end part is still in the works. Obviously you launch the card that's ready and "adapt". You call it GTX680, you take back the crown "fastest card in the universe blah blah" and on top of it, you have an unexpected chance to milk a premium price (when you thought first that a 300$ price would have been great) thanks to your very own competition.

NV is operating in a market. So what happens when your competition is launching a high-end card that is slower than what you expected? In fact, it's slower than your mid-range, performance whatever card which you happen to have ready. Your high-end part is still in the works. Obviously you launch the card that's ready and "adapt". You call it GTX680, you take back the crown "fastest card in the universe blah blah" and on top of it, you have an unexpected chance to milk a premium price (when you thought first that a 300$ price would have been great) thanks to your very own competition.

If that's the case we're pretty screwed.

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There's nothing wrong with offering more, for less cost. nV has two ways they can spin this, but to me, it ain't looking too positive.

NV is operating in a market. So what happens when your competition is launching a high-end card that is slower than what you expected? In fact, it's slower than your mid-range, performance whatever card which you happen to have ready. Your high-end part is still in the works. Obviously you launch the card that's ready and "adapt". You call it GTX680, you take back the crown "fastest card in the universe blah blah" and on top of it, you have an unexpected chance to milk a premium price (when you thought first that a 300$ price would have been great) thanks to your very own competition.

If that's the case we're pretty screwed.

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I get that. With NVIDIA losing market share like crazy you would think they would take advantage of their situation and deal a major blow to AMD. But instead they took a more crappy route and renamed things and charged a premium. Sorry but I just lost respect for em. What they are doing is a short term thing. It hurt consumers now and them in the long run. They should take this chance for a MAJOR hit against AMD. Instead all I see is ego.

NVIDIA is just sand bagging and making things way more confusing then they should be.

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Confusing SKU naming conventions ! say it ain't so !
Just as well AMD doesn't start ripping off Intel's naming conventions for its APU's wholesale -including the "K" unlocked multi suffix...oh, wait...
I guess on company's "sand bagging" is another company's astute business acumen
(EDIT: A quick browse of TPU's back articles on AMD's GPU/APU naming conventions doesn't seem to yield any concerns from you. Is this practice something that has recently earned your ire?)

Basically they are launching a mid tier card under a top tier number with no announcement. Its BS if true.

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Getting your panties in a wad? Over what?...an "if" ?
Who says "GK104" is a midrange GPU ? all the scuttlebutt is tending towards the same ballpark die space, compute perf, overall perf as Tahiti. You see Tahiti marketed as "mid tier" ?

Basing GK104 as midrange based on "GK110" (which may be mythological for as much as anyone actually knows about it) being enthusiast/top-tier ? Making an assumption from an assumption ?
Whose to say that "GK110" isn't GTX 780...assuming it's anything at all (remember the 96TMU/384SP GT212). You know for a fact that "GK110" is of the same family/release as "GK104"?

Lastly, GK110, the crown-jewel of the Kepler GPU family, will feature as many as 2,304 CUDA cores. There's absolutely no word on its whereabouts. The fact that NVIDIA is working on a dual-GK104 graphics card indicates that we won't see this chip very soon.

NV is operating in a market. So what happens when your competition is launching a high-end card that is slower than what you expected? In fact, it's slower than your mid-range, performance whatever card which you happen to have ready. Your high-end part is still in the works. Obviously you launch the card that's ready and "adapt". You call it GTX680, you take back the crown "fastest card in the universe blah blah" and on top of it, you have an unexpected chance to milk a premium price (when you thought first that a 300$ price would have been great) thanks to your very own competition.

I never said they didn't have a right to name it whatever they want. Its just a shady practice.

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No it's not shaddy. They don't have anything better for now, either because they can't make it (TSMC 28nm issues or because of their own fault), or because when they saw the competition they decided to play safe and ensure a better situation than another GF100.

No matter what, they don't have anything faster for now. So if what they do have is faster than the competition they name it accordingly and I guess that they price it accordingly, although we dont know the price yet, so making assumptions is stupid. Like Crap Daddy said, we are probably screwed, but that's something I've been saying the minute I saw HD7970's performance, but of course I was flamed for that.