Look at the IND-CHS schedules for G4. They said this route is seasonal. Didn't expect it to fly all the way in Nov.

It appears G4 isn't cutting back at IND even though they are losing 7 planes this year, in fact it looks like their October schedule is beefed up, at peak:IND-AUS-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-SFB-goes 8x weekly from 5x weeklyIND-FLL-goes 6x weekly from 4x weeklyIND-JAX-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-PIE-goes 7x weekly from 6x weeklyIND-PGD-goes 8x weekly from 6x weekly

Every route appears to be an A320 as well...

For September they are going from 58 departures to 86

With the addition of AUS, VPS, CHS, SRQ, and AZA and anything else they plan on adding later this year, and all the upguages from A319s/MD80s to A320s, I wonder how much capacity they are adding YOY?

Isn't G4's IND base an A319 base?

All the A319 flights are switching over to A320s in May, except for SFB which is running the MD80 until June.

Times are a bit tricky since they change a lot based on the day, although IND-SRQ/CHS/AUS usually (or will) depart IND at 7am, IND-SAV around noon, IND-MYR 11am or 3pm, IND-LAS between 1-2pm, IND-VPS 12pm or 6pm, and IND-AZA around 9pm.

G4 mostly uses gate B3, but they also tend to use B4 when J1 isn't using it. They should be close to 50 weekly departures, and peak days are usually Su/Mon/Th/Fri

AUS-M/F until May when it goes Su/Tu/ThFLL-Daily for SB, then goes Su/Tu/We/Th/Sa for summerJAX-Su/Tu/Th for SB, then goes Mo/We/Fr for summerLAS-M/F until May when it goes Su/Mo/Th/FrSFB-8x weekly for SB, then goes Mo/Tu/We/Fr/SaPGD-8x weekly for SB, then varies a lot (anywhere from 4x weekly to daily during summer)SRQ-We/Sa PIE-8x weekly or daily pretty much year roundCHS-M/F through NovemberVPS-M/F through August, may be extended laterMYR-Su/Th through AugustMSY-another wacky one, but usually runs Su/ThAZA-M/F Nov-AprSAV-Su/Th through May then Su/Tu/Th through until August

Look at the IND-CHS schedules for G4. They said this route is seasonal. Didn't expect it to fly all the way in Nov.

It appears G4 isn't cutting back at IND even though they are losing 7 planes this year, in fact it looks like their October schedule is beefed up, at peak:IND-AUS-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-SFB-goes 8x weekly from 5x weeklyIND-FLL-goes 6x weekly from 4x weeklyIND-JAX-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-PIE-goes 7x weekly from 6x weeklyIND-PGD-goes 8x weekly from 6x weekly

Every route appears to be an A320 as well...

For September they are going from 58 departures to 86

With the addition of AUS, VPS, CHS, SRQ, and AZA and anything else they plan on adding later this year, and all the upguages from A319s/MD80s to A320s, I wonder how much capacity they are adding YOY?

I've heard DAB suggested on the PIT thread. Do you think there is any chance of that from IND on G4? It seems pretty close to SFB, and DAB sees only service to ATL, CLT, and JFK, but either that PBI, MLB, or EYW seem like the only possible Florida destinations left for G4 from IND, EYW being out of range for an A319/A320.

Look at the IND-CHS schedules for G4. They said this route is seasonal. Didn't expect it to fly all the way in Nov.

It appears G4 isn't cutting back at IND even though they are losing 7 planes this year, in fact it looks like their October schedule is beefed up, at peak:IND-AUS-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-SFB-goes 8x weekly from 5x weeklyIND-FLL-goes 6x weekly from 4x weeklyIND-JAX-goes 3x weekly from 2x weeklyIND-PIE-goes 7x weekly from 6x weeklyIND-PGD-goes 8x weekly from 6x weekly

Every route appears to be an A320 as well...

For September they are going from 58 departures to 86

With the addition of AUS, VPS, CHS, SRQ, and AZA and anything else they plan on adding later this year, and all the upguages from A319s/MD80s to A320s, I wonder how much capacity they are adding YOY?

I've heard DAB suggested on the PIT thread. Do you think there is any chance of that from IND on G4? It seems pretty close to SFB, and DAB sees only service to ATL, CLT, and JFK, but either that PBI, MLB, or EYW seem like the only possible Florida destinations left for G4 from IND, EYW being out of range for an A319/A320.

I think if DAB-PIT gets added IND-DAB would be added as well. Indiana has the 6th or 7th most tourists to DAB, usually more or around the same amount of tourists as NC or PA .https://www.daytonabeach.com/about-us/market-research/. However, many of those pax are currently driving.

I'm not sure on PBI, demand from IND to South Florida isn't as strong as it is in the Northeast, I think if anything WN might add it sat-only like they did in PIT, but MLB is probably not going to happen anytime soon.

"Today is the day! Increased service to all twelve @Allegiant destinations out of IND begin today. Now through May 9, IND will see 205 more flights from Allegiant every week!"

Certainly that can't be right. 205 more flights per week? As in roughly another 30 departures per day?

That is definitely an error, I am pretty sure it is around 25-30 flights added per week.

Very odd tweet....in such a short tweet they messed up so many things, lol.

I'm trying to figure out what they were going for there, maybe they meant to say G4 would run 205 total flights a month? They didn't even get the destinations right, G4 will be serving 14 destinations not 12....

Very odd tweet....in such a short tweet they messed up so many things, lol.

I'm trying to figure out what they were going for there, maybe they meant to say G4 would run 205 total flights a month? They didn't even get the destinations right, G4 will be serving 14 destinations not 12....[/quote]

Oh boy, the Public relations department @IND had 1 job to do and it doesn’t look like it was a success?!

LF data for November is up, Cherry picked a few that I though were interestingAAIND-DCA-88.7%; DCA-IND-86.8% 2016(with WN) IND-DCA-76.1%IND-PHX-92.9%; PHX-IND-93.3%IND-LAX-90.6%; LAX-IND-90.9%IND-DFW-89%; DFW-IND-89.1%

Southwest's flights to Midway are an interesting bunch - not that they exist - but in particular, the second flight, in the summer getting in to Chicago at 9:15 at night leaves little for connection opportunities.

if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport

Whenever I go visit my parents, that's the flight I use unless I can get a great deal out of Ontario that justifies the nonstop flight (and the trip to Ontario which is actually more expensive since I have to take a shuttle rather than public transport).

When it just started out, I could almost always get an entire row to myself.

Southwest's flights to Midway are an interesting bunch - not that they exist - but in particular, the second flight, in the summer getting in to Chicago at 9:15 at night leaves little for connection opportunities.

It's still surprising those flights exist......although the night flight to MDW has been running for a while, I think they time it so it is a one-stop no plane change flight that originates in Florida or somewhere out west

BerenErchamion wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

WNIND-LAX-91.7%; LAX-IND-85.8%

Damn.

Whenever I go visit my parents, that's the flight I use unless I can get a great deal out of Ontario that justifies the nonstop flight (and the trip to Ontario which is actually more expensive since I have to take a shuttle rather than public transport).

When it just started out, I could almost always get an entire row to myself.

Looks like that's never happening again.

Yeah, it looks like demand from IND-West has jumped drastically in recent years. A vast majority of WN flying from IND-West has been upguaged to the 737-800 or the 737 Max8.

Whenever I go visit my parents, that's the flight I use unless I can get a great deal out of Ontario that justifies the nonstop flight (and the trip to Ontario which is actually more expensive since I have to take a shuttle rather than public transport).

When it just started out, I could almost always get an entire row to myself.

Looks like that's never happening again.

Try DL, I've gotten a whole row many times flying back and forth to LAX.

Whenever I go visit my parents, that's the flight I use unless I can get a great deal out of Ontario that justifies the nonstop flight (and the trip to Ontario which is actually more expensive since I have to take a shuttle rather than public transport).

When it just started out, I could almost always get an entire row to myself.

Looks like that's never happening again.

Try DL, I've gotten a whole row many times flying back and forth to LAX.

Midwestindy, do you have the LF for that flight?

Yep flown that DL flight many times, however the red-eye is not ideal for many travelers and it will show in the numbers below:IND-LAX, LAX-INDNovember DL: 80.1%, 79.1%AA: 90.6%, 90.9%WN: 91.7%, 85.8%

October DL: 85.4%, 78.3%AA: 89.6%, 87.8%WN: 93.1%, 91.5%

So DL definitely had the weakest LFs of the bunch, but they went from a 738 to a A319 in January so LFs should go up accordingly (probably won't get a row to yourself anymore ).

Good find, that explains why my source didn't know which airline they were meeting with. I would presume they are probably there to meet with IAG, Norwegian, FI, WS, or AM. Looks like B6 and NK are there as well, so hopefully the airport gets a chance to meet with them.

Good find, that explains why my source didn't know which airline they were meeting with. I would presume they are probably there to meet with IAG, Norwegian, FI, WS, or AM. Looks like B6 and NK are there as well, so hopefully the airport gets a chance to meet with them.

A guy from MCI took pics with some WN people and Fl people today promoting their new flights. I am guessing about any airline he would want to talk to is there.

Whenever I go visit my parents, that's the flight I use unless I can get a great deal out of Ontario that justifies the nonstop flight (and the trip to Ontario which is actually more expensive since I have to take a shuttle rather than public transport).

When it just started out, I could almost always get an entire row to myself.

Looks like that's never happening again.

Try DL, I've gotten a whole row many times flying back and forth to LAX.

I usually end up on the Delta redeye for my Thanksgiving visit, because it works best with my teaching schedule (my other visits are during school breaks that are multiple weeks in length where I can wait until my teaching is done for the term, but Thanksgiving is a special case), but I'm also usually able to get a super-good deal for an F seat on that one so economy cabin loads don't really matter to me.

A little birdie just told me that Leonard Hoops(Ceo of Visit Indy) is in Ecuador right now working on getting nonstop flights......I asked which airline, but they said they weren't sure...

Ecuador? For Indy? Wouldn't that be a really weird add?

It's a route conference. Visit Indy and the IND were there, plus a few other peer airports, CLE, CVG, AUS, STL, MCI, MSY, BNA, and PIT were there too. I'm surprised considering the airport doesn't usually go to those events, hopefully we will hear more details about who they met with and which routes were discussed.

A little birdie just told me that Leonard Hoops(Ceo of Visit Indy) is in Ecuador right now working on getting nonstop flights......I asked which airline, but they said they weren't sure...

I'm glad to know that the IAA and Visit Indy are putting their brand out there at this conference.

If you find out any further details, let me know.

Routes Americas is happening in Quito right now so that’s probslby why, most airports send their Air Service and development teams or tourism orgs to help represent their airport. Half of the time, the tourism orgs send info with air service directors to make it easier.

...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...

I like that IND seems to more aggressive as of late than ever before, with trying to get airlines to come to IND, or expand at IND.

So here is my question to you guys. Midwest found out that IND, and VisitIndy is in Ecuador for a conference, what routes are even left to pursue???? For International routes, what are left????

We have the IND-CDG flight on Delta, I don’t think we need another Europe route do we?? Won’t that hurt the CDG route???Also I can’t see us needing a Central America, or South America flight ever. I am not even sure about Mexico.

You guys know 1,000, more than me, I just enjoy reading / learning! So can you give me your takes on this! Please!

Cancun is nice, but they'd love to see more. Sure, "Vacation Express" and "Apple Vacations" shows up whenever, however, but they'd love to see some type of operator come in and make it permanent. Even if they show up with just once a week frequency, they'd love an operator to partner on a destination, such as Punta Cana, Montego Bay, etc., offering more travel choices for better marketing and promotional opportunities.

Paris is nice, but sure, they'd love to see more. Why not have Aer Lingus or Icelandair or WOW show up, even if 3 or 4 weeks a week. Again, someone to partner on marketing and promotional opportunities, sell the facilities, etc.

There's plenty out there to pursue and plenty out there which is obtainable.

It's what happens after you've obtained these "bucket list" items that's the problem. Let's say in the next year IND gets a year around Caribbean link, a budget carrier to Europe, adds to San Antonio, Portland, then you're at a point of "what now?"

The lack of diversity in the U.S. airline market will catch up, and sooner, or later, there will be a period of "stale," and what you have, is what you have.

if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be. A few years back when Chicago hosted one of these several US airports were really able to roll out the red carpet based on proximity, but in other years when it’s a lot farther away it’s much more expensive to roll out the full dog and pony show. This one focuses on the Americas but in spite of it being in Ecuador it’s likely they could be speed dating with everybody from WestJet to JetBlue to Cayman Airways to Volaris. Next year this conference is in Quebec City.

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be. A few years back when Chicago hosted one of these several US airports were really able to roll out the red carpet based on proximity, but in other years when it’s a lot farther away it’s much more expensive to roll out the full dog and pony show. This one focuses on the Americas but in spite of it being in Ecuador it’s likely they could be speed dating with everybody from WestJet to JetBlue to Cayman Airways to Volaris. Next year this conference is in Quebec City.

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be.

Yes, I'm aware. This is an interesting development because the people I know at the airport have said that the airport in the past has avoided these events. I believe this is the first one IND has attended in quite some time.

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be. A few years back when Chicago hosted one of these several US airports were really able to roll out the red carpet based on proximity, but in other years when it’s a lot farther away it’s much more expensive to roll out the full dog and pony show. This one focuses on the Americas but in spite of it being in Ecuador it’s likely they could be speed dating with everybody from WestJet to JetBlue to Cayman Airways to Volaris. Next year this conference is in Quebec City.

Be nice if Indianapolis could host a conference like this

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The city really should try to host this event. Think about it. All the airlines/airport/etc. would show up and see our city first hand. We have the convention facilities too. I hope the CEO of Visit Indy is looking into possibly trying to host this.

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be.

Yes, I'm aware. This is an interesting development because the people I know at the airport have said that the airport in the past has avoided these events. I believe this is the first one IND has attended in quite some time.

They were at last year's event in Las Vegas. Just Google Routes Americas 2017 then look at the attendee list, IND airport and the airport authority are shown as attendee's. However, it does look like they avoided the 2015 & 2016 events. I didn't look beyond that.

The airport would have been stupid to avoid these events before now. It's an easy way for the airport to get face to face meetings with airlines without having to travel all over the globe.

For what it’s worth airline route conferences like these happen annually (I believe there are a few different ones) where airports make their pitch to prospective airlines, international and domestic. I believe they are essentially speed dating during the day, with opportunities to schmooze and rub elbows socially in off hours. All sorts of airports and airlines participate annual but the level of participation sometimes varies based on where it happens to be.

Yes, I'm aware. This is an interesting development because the people I know at the airport have said that the airport in the past has avoided these events. I believe this is the first one IND has attended in quite some time.

They were at last year's event in Las Vegas. Just Google Routes Americas 2017 then look at the attendee list, IND airport and the airport authority are shown as attendee's. However, it does look like they avoided the 2015 & 2016 events. I didn't look beyond that.

The airport would have been stupid to avoid these events before now. It's an easy way for the airport to get face to face meetings with airlines without having to travel all over the globe.

They weren't at Route Americas for 2014, either. The records don't go back any further than 2014 though....

I think I remember the airport not wanting any bad press from attending such events, I remember there were some harsh words written by one of the PIT newspapers about the airport attending too many of these events around the world. Also, I think I remember someone at the airport was fired a while back for using IAA dollars to "talk with airlines" but they were using it mostly for vacationing, so that could be another reason (don't quote me on that). 2017's Route Americas made sense for them to go to since it was close to home, but if you look at the attendees for World Routes 2017 IND is absent while basically every other airport in the US was there....

Anyway though, it's good that they are going to these types of events once again.

So why doesn’t IND see more 757’s ?!? If they go to AAR for mx. . . Just asking questions!

So it’s not because of the demand, just merely to shuttle the 57’s to IND for mx. . . ?

COSPN wrote:

757 MX checks at AAR IND

fedex1 wrote:

Why is Delta upgaging the flights in April? I am trying to understand this, as I read !!

The DTW-IND 757 will RON at IND, but the MSP-IND 757 will not, so the IND-MSP flight won't be doing any mx. The A321 from ATL won't be RON either...

I remember last year IND-ATL/DTW saw the 757, but not IND-MSP. There isn't much need for DL to run the 757 to IND when they have the 739ER, from a pax perspective they basically offer the same amenities, the 757 just has slightly more capacity though.

Also, another interesting thing I saw was that UA will be running the 739 and the A320 this summer on their IND-SFO flight, rather than the 2x A319. Meaning IND-Bay Area will be up to 654 seats per day this summer...

Hopefully get some Luv from Southwest next weekSAN:During Q3 WN carried 118 O&D pax per day to SAN, and if you include pax connecting through SAN you get 132 PDEW. No real need for explanation here, I'd expect this service to be extended.

Thanks for the numbers, 'indy. I agree with your expectation for the route and was very disappointed to see that WN did NOT extend the flight, even until October 1....

I really don't understand WN's thinking. The market is NOT seasonal; the numbers between Indi and SAN are quite consistent throughout the year and the market would definitely support permanent, year-round service. My wish is that that AAG would jump in and get this route covered the way it should be but that option doesn't seem very likely, particularly in 2018.

Hopefully get some Luv from Southwest next weekSAN:During Q3 WN carried 118 O&D pax per day to SAN, and if you include pax connecting through SAN you get 132 PDEW. No real need for explanation here, I'd expect this service to be extended.

Thanks for the numbers, 'indy. I agree with your expectation for the route and was very disappointed to see that WN did NOT extend the flight, even until October 1....

I really don't understand WN's thinking. The market is NOT seasonal; the numbers between Indi and SAN are quite consistent throughout the year and the market would definitely support permanent, year-round service. My wish is that that AAG would jump in and get this route covered the way it should be but that option doesn't seem very likely, particularly in 2018.

Oh well, can't win 'em all! That's why there is 'the future'!

bb

I think 2019 we could see some movement on this route, considering AS doesn't want to make any big additions this year. SAN-IND is becoming a rather large market, and I think there would even be enough room for 2 carriers (at least seasonally) at least by 2019.

Looks like AA isn't taking too kindly to F9, and is undercutting F9 by selling $48 one-way on IND-PHL. For those that don't know AA usually sells those flights at $500+ one-way. So, I don't see F9 staying on this route if AA prices like this.

Looks like AA isn't taking too kindly to F9, and is undercutting F9 by selling $48 one-way on IND-PHL. For those that don't know AA usually sells those flights at $500+ one-way. So, I don't see F9 staying on this route if AA prices like this.

Looks like AA isn't taking too kindly to F9, and is undercutting F9 by selling $48 one-way on IND-PHL. For those that don't know AA usually sells those flights at $500+ one-way. So, I don't see F9 staying on this route if AA prices like this.

Looks like AA isn't taking too kindly to F9, and is undercutting F9 by selling $48 one-way on IND-PHL. For those that don't know AA usually sells those flights at $500+ one-way. So, I don't see F9 staying on this route if AA prices like this.

If AA undercuts all the the F9 adds, I can see the US govt. stepping in if there's proof that AA is purposely losing profit to throw F9 off the route(s).

We'll see what happens.

Unlikely. They'll only step in if there is proof of "Collusion". That is 2+ airlines setting prices "together". F9 has the choice to lower its price on the route to be competitive with AA's new price and wait it out to see who buckles first, or just drop the route. If the government stepped in, it would be tantamount to restarting Regulation.