Rob Ski – “Breaking Magpul Furniture”

Rob Ski puts the new Magpul AK furniture to the test. The results are thought-provoking:

Something I have reiterated a few times in the comments section is a basic aphorism about folding stocks that is borne out by this video:

“Durability, lightness, cheapness, ergonomics. Pick three.”

Magpul’s AK folding stocks are light, ergonomic, and cheap enough. What they lack is a level of durability necessary for military service. While I would not be too concerned about the use of this stock by civilians, the stock is vulnerable when folded, which is a serious drawback for vehicle crews, paratroops, and other personnel that will use the rifle primarily with the stock folded.

Nathaniel is a history enthusiast and firearms hobbyist whose primary interest lies in military small arms technological developments beginning with the smokeless powder era. In addition to contributing to The Firearm Blog, he runs 196,800 Revolutions Per Minute, a blog devoted to modern small arms design and theory. He can be reached via email at nathaniel.f@staff.thefirearmblog.com.

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displacer

“What they lack is a level of durability necessary for military service.”

I think it would be more accurate to say they lack a level of durability necessary for getting run over by a truck with the stock folded. I mean, I’ve never served in the military myself but I’d assume that’s not a regular part of infantry doctrine

Basically every arfcom user

>not operationally getting run over by trucks while operationally operating in an operation zone
Bro do you even operate?

The only problem i see with this product is that the AK platform has too high a drag coefficient, unlike the AR15, which is the only weapons platform that i run in my operations in the combat zone (3 tours at the mall of america for unarmed security). When my life depends on a rifle to work, i need my AR15 brand AR15 to be no more than 3lbs loaded with no less than 4 different optics of varying magnifications, each costing no less than $500 each that i paid for by refinancing my house all in larue brand larue mounts that never scratch my tactical special snowflake finish (TSSF). So basically, Chris Costa (in his infinite wisdom) has wasted useful dinosaur bones making polymer parts for a useless platform when he could have used aforementioned polymer on a new type of angled-handstop-Grip-pod hybrid to cut down on my split times for my tac reloads.

I am intrigued by your post, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. LOL

MichaelZWilliamson

But how is the fit and finish? Is it nice and shiny?

TheNotoriousIUD

Getting ran over is the #2 cause of death in the Russian military.
Right after submarine explosions.

anon

If by “getting ran over” you mean getting shot in the ukraine, then yes.

JK russia didn’t invade ukraine. They were civilians who bought those T72s at the local hardware store.

iksnilol

I thought America was free? Can’t you guys buy T72s at local hardware store?

anon

They are all in Ukraine 🙁

Core

Why? Every American landowner is issued a hover tank by the civilian heavy armored infantry program or CHAIP. Wait a minute, are we allowed to say this??

iksnilol

Yes, you are allowed to say this. Say everything to comrade Iksnilol.

*jots down notes furiously*

billyoblivion

Only if they’ve been de-milled.

Joshua

We actually can buy tanks here, they are just so cost prohibitive to own, and keep running.

Cornelius Carroll

…speaking of which, I just remembered ACE said my Su-34 was supposed to come in yesterday. I hope they didn’t sell it to someone else.

MichaelZWilliamson

I got shot in the Ukraine once, but I had a really good surgeon do reconstruction.

Patrick R.

We had a female soldier in my unit that bent a M16 barrel by leaving it on the ground and lowering an outrigger on a Patriot launcher onto it. Don’t underestimate a soldier’s ability to ruin something.

mosinman

did she get disciplined for that?

USMC03Vet

Of course not. She received a NAM and everyone else had to push.

mosinman

ahhh that makes sense 😉

Patrick R.

Nope. She was “very close” with the commander overseas.

KestrelBike

Haha delicious.

Not_a_Federal_Agent

Sounds like we should replace all of our service rifles, they’re obviously not up to snuff with the rigors of military service.

displacer

apparently if it’s not Wolverine’s bones, it lacks the level of durability necessary for military service

John

Wolverine’s bones were military service, bub.

John

That was her ex-husband/boyfriend’s rifle, wasn’t it?

Patrick R.

It was her unit issued m16.

Rock or Something

I like to tell people I just got out of a ten year relationship, because she was awfully demanding of my time and was going to be the death of me. Her name was the U.S Army.

KestrelBike

hay guys wuts going on in this army-not-controlling-weapons thread

iksnilol

What’s going on there?

An Interested Person

Back blast from what looks like an AT-4 throwing a rifle.

iksnilol

Thanks, my operator level isn’t high enough to see through the sand/dust. I was mildly confused by everything being concealed by sand/dust while one rifle is randomly in the air.

Grindstone50k

The rifle was stuck in the back of the AT-4, so they were just getting it un-stuck.

iksnilol

That’s certainly one way of doing it.

Esh325

Well that proves the AR sucks because if that happened with an AK it would be the Patriot launcher that would be bent. *sarcasm*

billyoblivion

Bowling ball, screwdriver.

Grindstone50k

Yeah, I’d like to see the same exact “test” run on a vanilla M4 stock.

Seems to be just fine, though admittedly not as fast nor is it an M4 stock:

Grindstone50k

I thought that logo was never going to end…

BattleshipGrey

Well said. At least with the AK, it’ll still fire whether or not the stock is folded or broken.

Zachary marrs

The ar can fire with a broken stock

iksnilol

Uh, what about the buffer tube? It’s sorta a part of the stock and if it breaks aren’t you going to have a bad time?

Zachary marrs

Buffer tube is not the stock

“Receiver extension”

While it can break, it isn’t exactly a common occurrence, even for military rifles

iksnilol

Well, it’s a part of most stocks. Or are you saying that most collapsing stocks attach directly to the receiver and not the receiver extension.

Zachary marrs

I’m saying that the stock attaches to the receiver extension, which is not part of the stock

The “stock” and “receiver extension” are two completely different parts, just because they attach to each other means nothing

Its like saying the rear sight on an ak is part of the barrel since they are attached to each other

iksnilol

Yes, they are completely different parts but it is hard to f*** up one without also f***** up the other. How many ARs have you seen with a pristine stock but with a broken/bent buffer tube? Or vice versa.

Joshua

It’s rare and generally requires things like a M2 running it over.

iksnilol

Except it isn’t. Any hard impact on the stock (especially sideways) risks bending the buffer tube which leads to a bad time.

Just search for “buffer tube” problems, you’ll find a lot of threads. FALs, G3s, AKs, etc. don’t have buffer tube problems because they don’t have one. Now I am not crapping on the AR but the buffer tube is a vulnerability and denying that won’t make it go away.

Terry in Oregon

The Fal can have a buffer tube… in a sense. Short of the para fal they have a recoil spring and guide that extend down into the stock. The function is similar to the buffer tube on the m16 platform and the NY safe AR pattern rifle is very similar in design. The para fal is a redesign of the bolt and recoil spring system to facilitate a folding stock.

iksnilol

In the fixed stock FAL the recoil spring is held in the stock, the folding version not so much. That’s true, but you get my point? Right?

Terry in Oregon

I totally get your point and agree, I own a Fal and thought it was a bad example because it can have a similar mechanism albeit harder to damage. But with my experience with the m16 we never bent the buffer tube on one even when an MRAP drove over the stock. The buffer tube on ours are thick aluminum they would more likely shatter before bending. But thise are the ones are the milspec we used in the Marines. I have no experience with commercial ones. The problems we had with the m16 platform getting run over by a heavy vehicle affected many other parts before the buffer tube though.

iksnilol

Somebody drove an MRAP over a rifle? Doesn’t stuff like that make your superiors frowny and all?

Terry in Oregon

They certianly didn’t do it on purpose, but stupid stuff happens in theater. I saw the aftermath of one in person and the pictures of the second. The one I saw in person exploded the buttstock on an A2 varient but the buffer tube was fine, or it still functioned. Never heard what happened to the guy whose rifle it was. The second crushed the magazine well and destiyed the hand guards. The Marines still teach bayonet fighting so they can take subsantial abuse on the buttstock without damaging the buffer tube. And for those who know the mortar method of clearing stoppages can attest to the abuse they put their rifles throught. The m16 pattern rifle is tough, along with sensative and finicky.

Ramsey

I had forgotten about the mortar method. Good times. The Army at least had the sense to use rubber duckies for bayonet training, though.

Joshua

There you go again speaking as an authority on something you have little experience with.

We’ve gone over this before, you have never been in a combat zone, much less issued an M4.

How you claim definitively they are a vulnerability when you have zero experience in the types of situations where these so called vulnerabilities should come to light?

You tell me to search the internet for threads? I say no, I have years of experience in the Military. I don’t need to search the internet for rare instances of shoddy cost cutting civilian receiver extensions breaking. I saw thousands of issued M4A1’s run harder and in worse environments and never saw a receiver extension break outside of the stupid instance where the whole gun was practically damaged as well.

A proper made receiver extension is extruded 7075 aluminum, it’s not an easily bent material.

iksnilol

I never claimed to be an authority, it is just simple physics. Just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I have never seen an AK fail, do I go on about how AKs never fail? No, I don’t because I know it can happen (again, simple physics).

MichaelZWilliamson

But not with a folded stock.

Zachary marrs

The standard ar stock cant fold anyway, so i fail to see how that matters

MichaelZWilliamson

That was my point. Damage the receiver extension, it doesn’t work. And if you lose the stock, you lose the fire selector detent. Not critical, but not ideal.

Zachary marrs

Chances are, that if the receiver extension is damaged to the point the rifle cannot cycle, the other critical components are probably toast as well

And that hoes for the ak as well

MichaelZWilliamson

There is no receiver extension on an AK.

Zachary marrs

I didn’t say there was

What i said was “if an ar and an ak are damaged in such a way that the stocks and reciever extension (on the ar) are broken, chances are the rest of the rifle is damaged to, to the point the rifle cannot cycle”

Joshua

How to break Magpul furniture…Take the gun into -45 to -60F weather and drop it on something hard.

Seriously? So I shouldn’t use Magpul in Norway? I mean, during the winters it does go as low as -20-40 Celsius.

Joshua

Magpul products have failed every Arctic testing the Army has done. It’s why they were never adopted over GI mags, they were tested at one point.

iksnilol

Ah, didn’t know that. Thanks for the info. Regarding trigger guards: I don’t really care for the extra big ones since I never use gloves with fingers, especially when shooting (and I live in Norway).

Joshua

That’s why the standard AR trigger guard can be opened and swing down against the A2 grip with just a bullet.

iksnilol

Never knew that, gotta try that next time I get some trigger time on an M16. Like I said though, I don’t really need winter trigger guards since I am not in the arctic and so far fingerless gloves have worked perfectly (you just need to know the technique: make a fist if you aren’t holding anything).

Penguins Rock

Wow I am super concerned about Magpu stuff now!! l next time I go to Antarctica in the winter I’ll leave my P-mags at home.

Sickshooter0

So much for taking my AR for the Mars invasion.

Joshua

This is why I stick to the A2 grip and the standard M4 stock. Both are tested and rated for Arctic climates.

It is a market most do not even test for, and why should they very few experience such climates and we have been at war in the middle east so long that is what everyone has focused on.

Grindstone50k

You live in the arctic? Hows the wifi?

I live in Oklahoma. I really don’t care if it fails at -60.

Joshua

Nope SE Texas where 70*F is a cold day.

I was speaking for my issued rifle, and honestly I stick to the standard stuff on my civilian rifles as well for the simple fact that I know they work across all spectrums.

hikerguy

When we invade Mars to throw out the alien troops from Alterus seventy -five years from now we will most likely have the AR still in service. We will see how it does in that fine Martian red sand….

n0truscotsman

Funny thing that. The idea of sticking with just the stocks, grips, and magazines the army issues. I prefer to let them do the testing for me.

I do love the CTR stock and pmags, although see no reason to change over from the original m4-stock design or dispose of my aluminum mags either.

Joshua

I make the exception for Lancer L5AWMs now days. Best mag ever made.

They also have an optional maritime base plate you can get to allow for rapid evacuation of water.

I kept everything else stock on my M4A1.

USMC03Vet

I get so hot and bothered watching AK abuse videos. I wish Rob called it dirty names during…

Seems like a decent stock. Could be improved if they made the folding mechanism out of steel instead of polymer. Even in spite of that it seems durable. I mean, if my rifle is getting run over by a car while the stock is folded, what is happening to me?

Rob used a fairly heavy vehicle, but I’m curious how much weight there has to be to break the stock. I mean, if a mini Cooper can crush it, that’s one thing, but if it takes something bigger than a sedan to do the job, I’d call that an adequate balance of lightness over strength for what you’re paying.

TheBLB

I suppose it’s worth noting that if the stock on an AR-15 broke off like that and the buffer tube was damaged you could have a pretty big problem. However in this case the AK is still functional, it just doesn’t have a stock. I don’t care to argue about which rifle is better, but in this case having the stock break off doesn’t render the gun non-functional, just uncomfortable.

Rob

Nothing here is surprising, I’d have been impressed if it had survived. I guess I’m glad I didn’t really like the looks of the folding magpul stock to begin with. Although I kind of like their new fixed “triangle” style one. But you know what? in time I’ll probably get one of these folders anyway…I’ll try and not run it over.

Esh325

I don’t think it’s really a point against folding stocks, it’s perhaps a point against Magpul’s AK products. I’d like to see them compare it to a AK 100 folding stock. Regardless, I know you’re going to have some 200 pound arm chair commando that says “I’ll never buy magpul products again, they aren’t worthy enough to defend my life in a WROL situation.” Even though the said guy will only ever use his AK for shooting paper targets.

That’s the boring kind of T72… the kind that doesn’t say “vroom vroom” or shoot high explosive shells.

Pete Sheppard

Interesting video, fun comments! 😀 Note Rob was very positive about the stock, just noted it DOES have a breaking point. With the vehicle weight supported by that tire concentrated on the hinge, YES it will break.

Anonymoose

Strangely enough, I was just trying to find some reviews of the Magpul furniture last night. Good timing!

CYKA

RIDF, please.

What about those T-72B3s or that BTR-82A? Did rebels also captured those?

What about that Yakut guy who burned to a crisp? How about those pictures of PKPs and AK-74Ms being used by Asian looking mofos who are sporting EMR camo?

n0truscotsman

This is unsurprising and i dont view it as a dent against magpul anything, let alone folding stocks.

The theme here is: everything breaks. Hinges break or bend, if you drive vehicles over them. So what?

Under normal usage, these stocks will be perfectly fine. vehicle crews and the likes wont use them anyways.

Bal256

When I was in Afghanistan, I once slipped and smacked my M4 stock on a hard service and cracked the stock pretty bad. It was still completely serviceable, though. Mil-spec is not all its cracked up to be. I dont know how common that is, but the armory had spares, so I couldn’t have been the only one.

RICH

GREAT VIDEO……. GOOD HIGH-FIVE FOR THE DURABILITY OF MAGPUL PRODUCTS !! JUST WHAT ONE WOULD EXPECT FROM A PRODUCT MADE IN THE GOOD OL’ U.S.A. ……..! : )

Max

Are there any other videos posted online where other rifles with folding stocks, such as the SCAR, have been run over with the stock folded?

This is beginning to get truly ridiculous. Its a gun, guys. Its designed to be shoot bullets and be carried. This “but what if I drop it in a blender/woodchipper/pit-full-of-rabid-beavers is decidedly tacti-cool.

screwtape2713

The “military standard” from the 1700s to about 1970 was a walnut stock… Anybody got a Civil War Enfield musket, a Boer War era Long Lee Enfield, a WW1 1898 Mauser or even (at a pinch) a WW2 Garand in original mint condition that they would be willing to drive over with an SUV to see how well THOSE stocks stand up to that kind of torture test?

BTW, I’ve seen a lot of Swiss K31s, Swede 1896 or 1938 Mausers, German and other Mausers and British Lee Enfields with “arsenal repairs” to their wood stocks. Not to mention all those old Winchesters and similar pioneer-era rifles and shotguns with stock cracks repaired with a nailed-on sheet-metal wrap…

Bodie

Dude we get it, it’s a Russian rifle. You can’t do a Russian accent, and that’s okay. It’s played out anyway. Please forego for future videos because that was painful and I had to turn it off before I made it to the stock breaking.