Obamacare “death panels” or healthcare rationing; the results will be the same!

The term “death panels” symbolically describes the government’s new role under Obamacare, to make treatment decisions based on costs, rather than need or insurance coverage; rationing life saving measures for individuals, especially in the sunset of their lives, when medical costs are at their peak.

Tens of thousands seeking medical care will be pushed aside by the government each year, as they are in other countries with single payer systems, because they are old and it will cost too much to prolong their lives for an indeterminate amount of time.

The reason that Obamacare will ultimately force rationing of healthcare services to millions of Americans, who have insurance today, is simple math. Under Obamacare, tens of millions of people, without insurance, will be added to the queue without increasing the capacity of the healthcare system we have in place today.

Without an increase in providers the system will break down. And with the government’s record for paying their bills late, or not paying them at all, who would want to be one of those medical providers when they grow up?

Even liberal columnist admits rationing must be used.

Economist and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman says the only way the U.S. will get its debt crisis under control is by the use of those “death panels” and a national sales or value added tax (VAT).

The National Health System in the United Kingdom already denies health care to the old and infirmed because of the prohibitive end of life costs. The NHS and other countries don’t refer to those making end of life decisions as “Death Panels” either.

The soaring costs of the Canadian health-care model are forcing the provinces, like Ontario, to change or eliminate provisions in order to take control of the expenditures. The consequential Canadian restrictions should make every American wary of Obamacare taken to its extreme public option model.

Excerpt:

Ontario says healthcare could eat up 70 percent of its budget in 12 years, if all these costs are left unchecked.

Countries, with single payer systems, have reduced the number of X-rays and MRI equipment because of the costs and people die waiting for treatment with undiagnosed health issues. This situation may not be death panels, per se, but the countries using this “no choice left to the patient,” one size fits all healthcare plan, watch people drop while waiting in line for their turn with these diagnostic tools.

Doctors drop out of the systems because smart people can always earn a living doing something else. Hospitals close – it’s a forced rationing in situ due to a reduction in the quantity and quality of caregivers, and the tools at their disposal.

Across the country, state lawmakers have taken harsh actions to try to rein in the budget-busting costs of the Medicaid health care program. Some states have cut payments to doctors, paid bills late and trimmed benefits such as insulin pumps, obesity surgery and hospice care.

Medicaid is the prelude to Obamacare and regardless of whether you call those decisions made by “death panels” or healthcare rationing; the results will be the same!

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34 Comments

This is the dumbest, and most intellectually dishonest argument against Obama’s Health Insurance Reform. I am shocked that someone of Mr. Biondo’s professed intellect would make it.
Government has been providing single payer healthcare to those “at the sunset of their lives” for 45 years. Where have the death panels been during that time? Isn’t it Republicans that want to drastically reduce Medicare spending? So are they the ones that will institute death panels? I guess Paul Ryan’s voucher program is kind of a death panel? How many seniors would trade their Medicare in order to buy health insurance? Do you support Medicare as it is, or do you think it should be repealed, the same way you think “Obamacare” should be repealed?

Paul – welcome to the blog. Obamacare removes $500 Billion dollars from Medicare as his health insurance plan is implemented – $500B. Have you read what Obamacare does – in 2 years after 2014, $1T dollars will be removed from Medicare to pay for this socialistic health system. Obama is doing this and the Democrats voted for it late one night, remember?

Are you familar with any of the national health care problems in any of the countries I mentioned. Get on the internet and see the financial problems and rationing that is occuring.

Financially, under Obama, our economy, planned healthcare, etc. are all going down the path of Greece, Europe, Canada, etc

Since those on the Left don’t believe in “death panels”, we need a new, less-dramatic title for such an draconian entity. Why don’t we call them the ” ObamaCare Pixie Dust Allocation Systems”? Problem solved.
That will fit right in with the Obama energy program, based on harnessing the power of unicorn flatulence.

Ted, you need to do a little more digging about how health care is delivered in our country. The U.S. lags far behind most developed countries in most health care benchmarks and the cons continued push that health care in the U.S. is so much better than in other countries is simply not borne out by STATISTICS, given the sorry state of the health of most Americans. Given that, maybe it’s time we changed some things about our system.

Be that as it may, I just have a simple, though long, question for you or any one of the commenters here: Given that insurance companies make their money only by denying care to people and are beholden only to their shareholders and are not accountable to the customers they serve, do you really trust an insurance company versus the government, whose members are accountable to the voters?

The better question is this: Given the financial mess that the Federal government is in, do you really trust politicians, who placate the voters in order to be re-elected, to properly and fairly administer healthcare, without further bankrupting the Country?

BTW, the healthcare insurance companies make money by providing a service, at a reasonable price. If they don’t satisfy a majority of their customers, and still make a reasonable profit, they won’t stay in business.

Insurance companies have had their own “death panels” for years, refusing to pay of certain procedures. Inorder for all Americans to have insurance coverage I think it is worth the risk. I think that any rational person would realize that there must be limitations on any type of service. The question is rather, is it reasonable. Nice try Ted. I really thought you were above such ignorant and political drivel. Shame on you. LOL

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2010/dec/16/lie-year-government-takeover-health-care/
Last year’s lie of the year was one I got when I called Manuzullo’s office to voice my support for the health care reform bill. The secretary informed me that Don was voting against the “government takeover of healthcare” She used the phrase two or three times and Politifact explains how it became a talikng point for the party.
Conservative sites still use discredit lies to energize the party rubes. I can pulg these in to a search engine and they are still trying to defend their usuage.

Snuss: are you that naive? Health insurance companies take in money, lots of it, and then try to pay providers as little as possible for the services that the providers’ customers need. Insurance companies’ “service” is insurance, not health care. They make more money when they pay out less for the services that their customers need. They are only accountable to their shareholders and their business is making money, not providing health care. It’s really quite simple.

BCBS of Illinois just announced it made $1.1 billion in PROFIT in 2010. The most telling quote from the story in Crain’s notes that the insurance industry is “basking in record profits thanks to double-digit premium increases and reduced claims, as budget-minded consumers put off going to the doctor.” Let me tell you, consumers aren’t putting off going to the doc because their health is so great or because it’s so cheap. It’s because insurance companies are raising rates and people can’t afford it.

But, yeah, makes way more sense to put your trust in Blue Cross than your Congressman.

But, you can CHANGE or SUE insurance companies, if you are not satisfied with their performance. What will you do, if you disagree with ObamaCare?
Also, one of the reasons that rates are going up is government-mandated coverages. Somebody has to pay for them.

Snuss: Go ahead and sue BCBS if you’re not happy with them. Let me know how that works out for you.

Has your personal insurance situation changed since health care reform went into place? Have you lost your coverage? Do you have examples of the millions of people who would supposedly lose coverage once the law took effect? Do you think insurance companies raised rates because their cost went up or did they use reform as a smokescreen to raise rates? Hmmm. . .

One of the fundamental problems we have in this country is that we treat health care as a commodity and so-called conservatives treat it as a privilege that should only be granted to those who can afford it. Do you feel that way? Most members of the shrinking middle-class are a few paychecks away from financial disaster. If one of them gets a life-threatening disease, through no fault of their own, should we turn them into the street to fend more themselves if they don’t have insurance and because “capitalism” dictates that they only the strong survive?

This is the fundamental issue at stake here. Dems believe that basic health care is a fundamental human right. Repubs believe that it’s something that only those who can afford it should have access to.

Snuss – thanks for taking up the battle while I have been busy all day with other efforts against the liberal mindset. The post was about rationing that will most defintely occur as it is occuring in the insurance business – I don’t argue that.

However, Politicians are about the only people less trusted than used car salesmen, insurance salesmen and the lawyers who make up garbage like Obamacare. To answer your question – I do trust the insurance companies more than the liberal politicians who signed this bill in the dead of night – stupidly thinking no one would be watching.

One can understand insurance companies’ motivation and use competition to level the playing field. With liberal politicians running the healthcare show, over half the people will vote for anyone they think is giving them something for nothing – like health insurance.

I want to have choice with whom I obtain medial care. I don’t want the government taking away my choice. I don’t want the same medical care as you have. I want the choice to spend more or less, as I see fit, not you or the government!

The system will be overwhelmed with the new participants and the same resources. Neither of you have addressed that scenario!

I’m just asking people to look at the current singlepayer systems with their eyes wide open and there is no way realistically that those systems aren’t making rationing systems that kill people.

Besides SNuss’s last argument is a killer. If even the Obama supporters are getting waivers, why would you want to be in a system that they don’t even want? Duh!

Ted’s fanciful interpretation of how the health care bill was passed “(by) the liberal politicians who signed this bill in the dead of night – stupidly thinking no one would be watching” leads me to believe that he, SNuss, and others have purposefully decided not to read anything about the bill, but to use partisan sources for information. The giveaway on this is that Ted would still use the “2010 lie of the year” in his headline as pass it off as a fact.http://www.kff.org/healthreform/8061.cfm
That bill passed like any other bill. Since there is a 24-hour news cycle and theat was the most important story of the year, there’s no way they could sneak anything through.
The only people who believe silly things like that, or that no one really read the bill which went through comittee’s like any other, are people prefer their ideology sources.

Expdoc is right on this point. Further, we have a “sick” care system in this country, not really a “health” care system. Hospitals and docs make little money on prevention so there’s no real incentive to help people live healthy lives. We spend little on prevention and then are faced with patients in ERs who’ve neglected themselves for years and want to be “fixed,” yet many don’t have the means to pay for it.

Incentivize provdiers to get and keep their patients healthy, as they do in the national health service in Britain, and you might see a change. And, more companies need to discount premiums for their covered employees who make healthy choices.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/201004070046
SNuss has used the Glenn Beck version of the Nancy Pelosi quote. The 10 seconds of her befuddled speech is on YouTube, some times in its full sentence other times not. But you certainly can’t find the entire speech there.
It seems obvious to me she was referring to the effects of the bill what she said “see what’s in it away from the fog of controversy” because you could read the entire thing online to see what was in it — another reason why claiming it was passed at night so no one would know what was there is fanciful.
Pelosi’s ambiguous comments are her own fault. However, it appears Beck’s selective editing of her quotes have bamboozled you, SNuss.
I’m glad Beck is not on the air to deceive you any longer.

Shawn, just because Media Matters is YOUR news source, doesn’t mean that I get my information from Glenn Beck.
ObamaCare was written by a bunch of Leftist partisan hacks, and then rammed through Congress with little to no discussion, or time to read and evaluate it, just as the Democrats wanted. The more it was explained, the less the public wanted it, and a majority still don’t want it.

rammed through in the dead of night? was Snuss or Ted in this country in 2009 or 2010? Health care reform was the number one news story every day for about 14 months. nothing was rammed through. there were negotiations continuing to the very end, no doubt, but to claim that they tried to sneak this past the voters is revisionist history at best and, more likely, outright lying at worst.

So Ted, are you for or against the rationing of health care? I gather that you are for it if it is rationed based on who can afford it, and against it if it is based on providing it to virtually all Americans. I understand that is your free-market, survival-of-the-fittest view. That is a perfectly fine opinion. But why don’t you set that out in your arguments, instead of using lies and fear-mongering? And why don’t you take your belief to its logical conclusion of abolishing Medicare and Medicaid? and wny do you have to use so many exclamation points?!

Yes, I was here in 2009, and 2010. Where were you? Sleeping? The actions of the hyper-partisan Leftists controlling Congress were disgusting. Healthcare, in general, was frequently discussed. The contents of the ObamaCare bill were not. There IS a difference.

Another reasonable point SNuss. Discussions about the “Ill take care of everyone” Obama falacies and no one really knew what was in the bill because Pelosi said that they had to vote for it first to see what was in it – What a power hungry group of people!

Another great point of your’s concerned the waivers and why Obama supporters by the thousands are asking for them. Our leftist friends haven’t answered that one yet.

They always seem to nitpick around the edge about an adjective or adverb that’s used, rather than debate the point being made – Why it is wrong with some logical and common sense reasons – why?

No. Paul is correct. Everything in that bill was public and went through committees like any other bill. To suggest otherwise is just repeating talkimg points. You’d have to take the fact-based subheading off the blog and change it to imagination-based if you actually believe it is possible to pass a secret bill. In fact, people in town hall meetings used to claim line by line readings of the bill showed its unconstitutionality. You can’t complain about the bill line by line and then claim it was hidden and be correct. Something is both public and secret.

Ok I see monkey and shawnnews perscribe to the liberal montra if you cannot dazzle them with brilliance (the truth) baffle (muddy the waters) with BS.

Here are some facts gained from NPR, NBC, CBS and newspapers like RRSTAR and NYT. So save your “fox news” bias.

1. All european socalist health plans have LONG waiting lists for such proceedures has cat scans, heart screenings, heart proceedures and joint replacements. Something here you can get in days to weeks. A horrific example on WLS-AM a year and a half ago was a high risk pregnancy that went into premature labor and had to be FLOWN over two provices in canada because the hospital had no more funds (but had bed space) alocated for child birth.

4. Major democratic leaders ADMITIED (including Pelosi) that they HAD NOT READ THE BILL.

5. Pelosi DID SAY “we need to pass the bill to see whats in it”. They only released the final bill less than 72 hours before the vote. A 2000 page bill in legaleese. Tell me monkey how is YOUR READING SKILLS? I have a college degree and admit I would be hard pressed to read it once. No way I could interprete /and research all the legal jargon in under a week.

6. The obama admistration passed out wavers to unions, businesses, and THEMSELVES exempting them from Obahma care.

So please spell out EXACTLY what facts do I have in error????

The truth is conservative republicans proposed ideas like ……

1. allowing insurance compainies to cross state lines and compete for business.

2. Hit corruption in current medicare/medicade HARD to save money.

As well as a few others. Then wait to see how that worked before adding more.

Lastly I have yet to say ANY DEMOCRATE much less republican give up their gold plated health insurance for life.

Oh I almost forgot monkey and shawnews. ALL polls (including those used by MSNBC) before the obama health care vote showed a majority DID NOT WANT IT.

This is why the FACT IS democrats LOST THE HOUSE and significantly reduced their majority in the senate solely due to the health care debate.

Put up some linked sources, like I do, (not baffle like you claim), learn to spell “mantra” and “democrats” and I’ll consider taking you seriously instead of putting up a long list of unsourced claims and then challenging us to prove them wrong and ending it with the childish “Truth hurts doesn’t it.”

I “won” easily because:
I use sources rather than just my own opinions. Everyone has an opinion, rather than a qualified one. A source at least shows that you have read someone.
I really don’t think anyone wins arguments. People just prove points better than others.
But let’s take your comment to it’s fullest indirect meaning: It’s OK to believe people you already agree with, who don’t use any sources, completely misspell and get a lot wrong. If that’s what you actually, think — you’ll fall for every nut who waves the flag and carries a Bible and says you should believe him because of the props he carries.

First I did list sources, NBC, CBS, NPR, NYT, RRSTAR and (did not say in post) BBC. All mainstream media sources. Just because I choose not to clutter the blog with spoon fed links stating common knowledge facts does not make my statements less credible.

My personal opinion is you are mad you could not use the “stop watching FOX NEWS” line.

Second What you seem to view as “opinion” is proven fact.
Did Nancy Pelosi not say “we need to pass the bill in order to see whats in it”?
Did not the GAO (goverment accounting office) put out a report the Obama heath care plan does not save any money (this proving the president lied)?
Did not the bill contain over 2,000 pages and delivered less than 72 hours before the vote
Is not medicare/medicaid not going broke?
Isn’t impossible to read 2,000+ pages of legal language bill and completely understand it (required to make an informed vote) in less than 72 hours?
Is not EVERY Socialist medical system have long lines with people coming to THIS COUNTY for treatment?

NOT ONCE DID YOU CHALLENGE THESE STATEMENTS.

Third your pointing out my my mispellings (a human trait) is the most laughable argument of all. As you yourself stated my error is a few mispellings. But not the clarity of my statements, opinions, sources, or facts The RRSTAR does not permit you to correct errors you may discover after posting.

Here is what I see from your responses to my (and others who dare to disagree with you and use GASP facts) posts.

1. Your use of a misspelling as a first response (post 28) shows you had no other argument, no proof to counter, or want to have an adult discussion. In my opinion it is the same as a child saying “sez you” and claiming they won.

2. You more than show the premise of this blog with your (quoted for accuracy) “If that’s what you actually, think — you’ll fall for every nut who waves the flag and carries a Bible and says you should believe him because of the props he carries.”.

Name calling and insulting without even ONCE challenging or discussing the issues of my (specifically) posts.

You have hit the nail on the head, truth hurts. Liberals have very little factual information and must resort to the most vile and degrading name calling, denigration and forget about spelling.

Many spelling mistakes are typos and cannot be corrected once they are posted. And even if they are not, correctly spelling an incorrect solution, as liberals do, does not make it more correct. It is still wrong for America. Thay lack the facts and therefore, use emotion to arrive at their incorrect solutions or use it as a weapon against those with whom they disagree!

Ted, why don’t the liberals focus on supply if they were truly interested in reforming healthcare? Instead, since there’s less money to be spent, they politicize the system. Don’t expand government, expand healthcare! Encourage more to be come doctors, nurses, assistants, develop more drugs, build more facilities.

Now government will be able to determine what is an essential health benefit, when before you would decide by shopping. And Japan has the worlds longest life expectancy, and they have 400% more hospitals there here.