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I'm not discussing OTA and it's MODULAR [MT-2] solution for 922. You just lost 2 counts from your score.If Stuart did decide make the discussion as dedicated thread, then don't drug us off-topic. Please.

The point is that the decision not to make the next receiver with an embedded sling does not make the use of an embedded sling in the last receiver a "fiasco". If we were to follow your theory that not putting embedded sling in the 813 makes the embedding a fiasco then we would have to accept that not putting embedded OTA in the recent receivers makes prior use of OTA a fiasco. Or any other apparently discontinued practice.

Not doing something twice in a row does not mean that what you did was "a complete and ignominious failure". Embedding sling was not "a complete and ignominious failure".

Joeys don't have hard drives... only the Hoppers do... so clearly Dish has decided to never again put hard drives at each viewing location... thus, using P Smith's logic, DVRs are a fiasco.

As James already noted, apparently OTA is also a fiasco... since not only does the Hopper not have support for OTA embedded like previous receivers there isn't even any announced support for an external OTA add-on! So, OTA is also a fiasco.

What else?

Apparently anything not in the current receiver that was in a previous receiver means it was discontinued because of a fiasco, right?

I don't buy that. Dish just made a decision to not use embedded Sling in the Hopper. Could be any reason for doing so... but it doesn't mean the previous product was a "fiasco".

That same logic should also mean the standard Slingbox is also a fiasco, since Dish is supporting the Sling adapter rather than the Slingbox.

Oh, and since you have to go through Dish Online (or the mobile app) and can't use the SlingPlayer software on your PC or Mac, that must mean the SlingPlayer software was also a fiasco.

The best example of "a complete and ignominious failure" I know is New Coke. The company took an established well loved product and told everyone that it wasn't good enough and they could do better. It failed enough that "Classic Coke" had to be introduced - which was never as good as "the real thing".

It takes work to create "a complete and ignominious failure". Not every "bad idea" rises to that level.

In DISH terms, one change I might consider a "fiasco" would be the package name changes a few years ago. For years DISH has had "America's Top" channel packages. Then they decided to borrow the names from their HD packages and introduce "Classic Bronze", "Classic Silver" and "Classic Gold". A year later and they went back to "AT" packages. The "metal" (or "medal" during Olympic years) package names didn't go over too well either. They seem to be better understood with a common name and numbers attached.

I'm not sure why we have to prove it isn't a fiasco. Where is your proof that it was a fiasco?

I haven't seen you post anything that proves it was a fiasco. All you have done is state the obvious that Dish decided to not embed Sling in the Hopper. There are no facts you have posted that prove this decision was based on any failure of the embedded Sling or anything resembling a fiasco.

Because it didn't work well in 922 and lost its value; because new model [813] (based on 922 platform) did drop it off; because no more 922.

Ask your sources in the company about using TI chip "DaVinci" in a future product.

Sorry, all you are posting is opinion. Where is your factual evidence? You ask for proof, but fail to provide any yourself. I think we are at an end of the topic if you can't provide concrete factual proof of your claim.

The problem is with your conclusion:"After fiasco with embedded Sling (model 922) ..."You concluded that embedded Sling was "a complete and ignominious failure" (which is the meaning of the word fiasco). We disagree.

Embedded Sling is now working on 922s. There is no reason to assume that the DaVinci chip would not work in the next receiver DISH designed, especially one based on the 922. DISH worked out the bugs with embedded Sling on the 922.

DISH also had problems with Sling on the lesser receivers. It seems odd to focus on problems one receiver had with Sling without acknowledging other receivers also had problems. I see the problems as Sling related, not embedded Sling related. There was nothing more wrong with embedded Sling than USB Sling.

It was a business decision not to spend the money needed to put embedded Sling in the 813. Sling is easily available via the USB adapter ... just plug in and go. Many customers upgrading to Hoppers already have these USB devices - just plug in and go at no extra cost.

It was also a business decision to stop deploying the 922 ... and quite frankly, after seeing the whole home Hopper in action I don't see why anyone would choose a 922 over a 813. Perhaps if someone never intended to share their content a 922 would be better, but with the third satellite tuner I'd still choose a Hopper.

So, in summary, is Sling itself "a complete and ignominious failure"? No. Sling is still offered. Is the 922 receiver "a complete and ignominious failure"? Perhaps, but DISH basing the 813 off of the 922 shows that there was some good in the design. So any failure would be far from "complete and ignominious." Does embedding Sling in a 922 somehow combine to create "a complete and ignominious failure"? I think not.

We could take a couple examples with other dish fiascoes (to close to the theme - Coca-Cola does not fit here):- FireWire in 921- E*IDE connector (60 pin) on 501/508/510/721/921, suppose to be EHD.

Same metric as embedded Sling.

So, in summary, is Sling itself "a complete and ignominious failure"? No. Sling is still offered. Is the 922 receiver "a complete and ignominious failure"? Perhaps, but DISH basing the 813 off of the 922 shows that there was some good in the design. So any failure would be far from "complete and ignominious." Does embedding Sling in a 922 somehow combine to create "a complete and ignominious failure"? I think not.

Am I upset that I paid $199 to beta test the 922? Yeah, a bit. But the interface is head and shoulders above the 722. The Sling was icing.

Agree; two things I'm not that happy about are paying $200 for the 922, when I was already subscribed to the top sub package, under no contract at the time. Another similar thing is the fact I had to pay $40 (or something) to enable using an EHD, which they again made free a short time later.

Dish is getting ~$160 from me each month, and they want me to pay these extra fees?

I like Dish, but the way they are making us early adopters, who HELP them develop their products, pay out the nose for stuff leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth.