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Latinos and the same-sex marriage ban

A majority of Latino voters in California voted in favor of Proposition 8 on Tuesday, eliminating the right of same sex couples to marry. I voted “No” on this measure for a variety of reasons — the biggest being I’m sick of the government taking away rights from people, especially after 8 years of GWB.

A major factor for me opposing this initiative was the large cash infusion for the “Yes on 8″ campaign that came from Mormons in Utah. These people don’t even live in California, and it bothers me that they felt the need to exert their influence in our progressive state. Mormons, of all people who know what it is like to be discriminated against because of marriage, decided to reignite the morality war in the name of marriage. Why the hypocrisy?

Another reason I voted “No on 8″ was the interaction that I have had with gay and lesbian couples, some of whom are married. Their marriages do nothing to harm me, don’t make me think any less of the family unit, and certainly don’t encourage anyone to “go gay.” When people try to argue that the core of the family should include a married man and woman, I can’t help but think about all of the co-habitating couples, children who are being born out of wedlock, and families being headed by single parents. Are those families any “less”? Personally, I think that the rise in out of wedlock births and divorce are more damaging than same-sex marriage. I have met gay couples who are more committed to their partners than straight couples are (hence, the desire for the ceremony, vows, and rings). So this whole notion that gays and lesbians are making a mockery out of marriage doesn’t hold with me.

Finally, I just cannot imagine taking away what should be a basic right when we are struggling with civil and human rights as a community. I don’t need to get into a long discussion of the incarceration rates of Latinos or the tragedies of the recent immigration raids and detention situations, but this quote from Fernando Espuelas sums it up perfectly, “The irony of Latino support for Prop. 8 is sad. That a community that continues to struggle for basic rights would deny them to another is particularly baffling.”

37 responses so far ↓

What I don’t understand is how the Christian groups reason that gay/lesbian families are any less a family than the traditional nuclear family that, as we see every day, is not as stable as they think it is???

I like what Melissa Ethridge had to say – gay people are being born every day.

“The irony of Latino support for Prop. 8 is sad. That a community that continues to struggle for basic rights would deny them to another is particularly baffling.”… this couldn’t be more true. This question has baffled me for as long as I have been old enough to think about issues that matter to our society.. how can we as Latinos, who face discrimination every single day for a variety of reasons (skin color, language, socio-economic status, etc), knowing how it feels to be discriminated against, turn around and do the same to other minority groups?? I just don’t get it. I would be interested to see what the age breakdown is of Latinos who voted Yes vs. those who voted No. I, personally, feel this was a vote that was largely divided by age. Older Latinos of my parents’ generation, tend to be more conservative and rely heavily on the religious aspect of this issue to defend their Yes vote: to them it’s simply immoral. That is another concept that baffles me…. The Bible teaches us to accept, love, not hate and above all to treat others as we would want to be treated… what could be more Christian than loving, accepting and equal treatment for our gay brothers and sisters? And as you said, there are thousands of gay couples in this state who contribute positive things to the people and the world around them. I have a hard time swallowing the notion that God looks down on those people as evil and less worthy…

This is the first time I’ve seen the bulk of CA’s props being funded by out of state interests.

I think it should be made clear that it wasn’t the Mormon Church per se that funded Prop 8, But people who happened to be Mormon, Jewish, Catholic and Evangelical. Also, it was African Americans who had a much greater turn out than Latinos and voted in favor of Prop 8.

I’ve often said that my 3 radical Chicana sisters played a major role in my upbringing. One of those sisters is very much a lesbian.

In my own private live I believe marriage is between a man and a woman. For reasons that I’d rather not get into right now.

But as far as others are concerned, I am strictly “live and let live” and “do unto others…”

Also, I do not believe the “state” should be in the marriage business. State sanctioned marriage is the weak link in this case.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that CA has passed Prop 8. I really expected more from us than that. This is not about being gay/straight…this is a strike against civil rights.
I can only hope and pray that this proposition will be overturned.

How ironic that as I was typing this, Melissa Etheridge’s song, I Wanna Come Over was playing on the radio!

I was raised by my Catholic parents to think that being gay was a sin. As I’ve grown & matured, I’ve learned that it is not up to me to decide. Only God can determine that. He may decide that my sins are worse than that of somone who is gay. So, I will judge a person based on who they are, not their sexual orientation.

“A major factor for me opposing this initiative was the large cash infusion for the “Yes on 8? campaign that came from Mormons in Utah…..Mormons, of all people who know what it is like to be discriminated against . Because of marriage, decided to reignite the morality war in the name of marriage. ” So true!! Basically, they think its ok to have more than one wife, but it isn’t ok to be gay & married to one person. Who decided one was worse than the other?

Second, I know many gay parents who are better parents than two parent families consisting of a man & woman. You hear stories on a daily basis about children being beaten & abused by their mothers & fathers. Does it mean that it is more damaging for a child to have gay parents than to be beaten & abused?

Actually if you’re Catholic or of any Christian demonination and read the bible…yes, it says Homosexuality is a sin…actually it says its an “abomination”.
What I can’t belive is that you are in disbelief that Latinos voted unanamously (yes) for Prop 8. You can blame the Mormons all you want, the reality is Californians (especially Latinos) do not favor same sex marriage. I agree as well. To say “live and let live” is going to far when it comes to gay marriage…what is crazy to me, is that it’s not enough for gay couples to have civil unions, which I can agree to compromise to. But no, they have to be married. Are we to redefine every definition in Websters for the sake of apeasement…sorry, I draw the line there. And yes, it has everything do to with my faith and beliefs.
Also, I think it is wrong to equate the issues (rights) latinos are fighting for to those of Gays and the marriage issue. Latinos like you tend to lead the sheep astray, always looking for vehicles (in this case Gay Marriage) in which we can all team up together and try to help each other. Latinos have issues, its not Gay Marriage…lets stay in our lanes with this. Where do we stop with this…Gay Marriage now! Polygamy next…what about the insane who believ they can have sex with children!?! Why not give them that right?!? Becuase we have friends (and I do to by the way) who are gay, does not mean we should fold over like cheap suits to allowing Marriage to be redefined.
Lastly, the people have voted…majority rules! Its the same majority that voted the first black president into office, which is good. For judges to over rule the voice of te people means our vote no longer counts.

Look webmaster, i’m not judging folks, i’m stating to you what the Bible says. And yes, YOU CANNOT seperate Gay Marriage from faith and Christian beliefs…its the reason it failed, for a second time!
If you call your self a Christian, it clearly states in the Bible its wrong. So to answer your question, yes…any Priest who is Gay and professes the word of god is being a hipocrat (and it’s a stretch but probably also a pedophile)…your statement implies they are beyond human cap/ability? That we can’t talk about the issue because they are above-human of some sorts? That’s probably because you are Catholic and so I undertsand…BTW, the Catholic Church doesn’t approve of Gay priest (probably becuase its in the Bible), it just knows it has this “problem”…your link bleeds of the “problem” hence making this very wrong.
Also, the blogs is about Gay Marriage, for you to thwart the discussion away because some how you think Gay Marriage and religion aren’t on the same platitude is rediculous!

My two cents: Isn’t “GOD” supposed to be THE judge…not us? If this is the case and if being gay is a sin, then let GOD make the judgement not YOU or ME! I voted NO on Prop 8 because I feel that if any gay couple wants to get married they should be able to. Who am I to judge? I hate hypocrisy. All those judging gay couples better take a good look at themselves first and make sure you are “sinfree”. I know a woman that claims to be a devout Catholic yet she is pregnant out of wedlock and she used to have an affair with a married man…yet she has the nerve to say that gay marriage is wrong! Sickening!

I don’t do well telling others how they can live their lives. It’s their life. It is not up to me to tell anyone else who they can love or who they can marry. That’s much too arrogant.
I believe that I cannot do anything to anyone that I will not accept being done to me. As for people running around espousing “the word” to try to fix or convert others, I have come to believe what Susan B. Anthony once said, “I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.”
As I said yesterday in one of my posts on this subject, people aren’t trying to save marriages between men and women, they’re simply trying to crush differences they don’t approve of.

Wow!!! I had no clue latinos felt the way they did about Prop 8! I was raised catholic and to belive homosexuality was wrong. I have a gay family member and have always accepted him for who he is. And my mom and aunt have embraced him AND his partner. And 2 more catholic, religious women you won’t find. Even at a young age, I felt that was wrong. Who are we to judge anyone because of their sexual orientation?? I refuse to believe that God is going to punish anyone just because they’re gay. After all, didn’t he create ALL human beings??

I knew when I posted my blog that I’d be viewed as some idealogue…wrong. So Renee, based on your input, its okay for someone say 30yrs old to marry a 12 year old? You proabaly wouldn’t approve of that…or what if a man (a Gay man at that) wants to “marry” a 10 year old boy? Is this okay…will you then voice your opinion against something like this or will still stay on the sidelines. I suspect you would not approve of something like this and then voice your opinion.

So I offer my own quote from Susan B to her friend Anna Shaw: “No matter what is done or not done, how you are criticized or misunderstood, or what efforts are made to block your path, remember that the only fear you need have is the fear of not standing by the thing you believe to be right. Take your stand and hold it; then let come what will, and receive the blows like a good soldier.”

Susan B, Renee, was fightng for womens rights and feared men twisted the words in the bible to keep thier women down not GAY MARRIAGE.
…so the question is, would Susan B be in favor of and fight for Gay Marriage…she was a Bible reader and a believer, so I suspect Gay Marriage would not be in her quest for civil rights (in fact it wasn’t).
Bottom line is where do you draw the line…womens rights, latinos rights, civil rights are not the same has the question at hand, whom you want (or are allowed) to marry…I can’t marry my dog…the law won’t accept that (nor would God BTW)…I can’t marry my sister, the law won’t accept it either.

Now, the people have spoken and you cannot marry another person of the same sex, the law no longer accepts that.

Mike, is this all you have to say, atleast Renee took a stand on something. Stop blogging if you can’t say something worth learning from.

Reyfeo, I quoted Susan B. Anthony simply because it makes sense when looking around at what some people attempt to impose upon others based on their own personal religious beliefs.
As for marrying children, there are quite a few nations out there, and in pockets of resistance in this country, that groom young girls to become wives because that’s their way, their culture. We might not agree, but it’s a fact.
As for marrying sisters, dogs, cars, goats, etc, that was off the topic. I didn’t feel that I had to mention that I was talking about two consenting adults who are making their own individual choices for themselves that has nothing to do with my life.
…and, thanks for the dialogue.

All above points well taken…but I still feel you have to draw some lines.
Jessica, God is the judge but he gave us certain rules to live by, and they are in the Bible. That Bible, if you believe in God says, Homosexuality/sodomy is a sin and therefore preclude us (or anyone who belives in God via the Bible) to agree to this when optioned to vote on it (which again is probably why most Lations voted Yes on Prop 8…BIG assumtion on my part, I agree). How you separate those beliefs (church) from “state” is beyond me suesette.
Again, I have friends who are Gay, but they understand my views and my dis-agreement with their life styles…I don’t throw my Bible at them everytime I see them, probably becuase as you say, I CAN’T JUDGE THEM (and I don’t), only God can.
Bottom line its the law now in California.

Reyfeo:
I was undecided on prop 8 until the last day. I consider myself a tolerant person and not very religious at all. What tipped it for me to vote in favor of prop 8 were 2 things
1) kids in SF taken out of school to attend a gay wedding
If that teacher had wanted any student to attend she her wedding she should have extended a private invitation to their families and not made it a “learning experience”
2) SF mayor telling us “whether you like it or not”

Glass houses Reyfeo, the flaw in your argument is that you assume that everyone shares your faith. You fail to realize that that may not be the case.

Freedom of religion means ANY religion (and that includes no religion). You can quote all the scripture you want but if I don’t share your faith (or the right verison of your faith) it is irrelevant. The point is that your faith is not necessarily my faith and your faith is no better than mine or anybody elses (although you would probaly argue differently). And while your faith may be what you use to form your own moral guidelines and code of conduct, you don’t get to impose that on other people and to use that as a basis for marginilizing, disenfranchising and denying another group their equal rights under the law. The law of the land is the Constiution of the United States of America, not a selective interpretation your bible. Prop 8 and all other laws like, are discrimination -period.

So I’ll rephrase my statment: How would you like it if we all got to vote on YOUR marriage?

Anna, if this helps you rational your view, ok, we get it.
However, the Bible is written by God through men chosen by God…if you don’t beleive this (all Christians do) then I can see why you are for Gay Marriage. The Bible, isn’t just another book, it’s the word of God as seen by all Christians (and any of its demoninations).
Also, it is impossible for one to be a bigot on Gay Marriage…if I were obstinately devoted to views proven to be false then I would be a bigot…my views against a subject, Gay “Marriage” in this case, have not been proven to be false. Marriage is between a man and a woman, Websters Dictionary says this, the Bible says this and now a mojority vote in California further proves this. Your view of Gay “Marriage” is in no dictionary and certainly not in the Bible and a view not yet proven (in fact a mojority vote in California counters this)…therefore the people who voted for Prop 8 (yes) are not Bigots.
BTW, this is America, very much like I can accept a new Democrat President (a very liberal one at that), then you too can accept this new majority vote. Feel free to move if you need to.

At one point interracial marriage was illegal. What if the state refused to acknowledge marriages between blacks and non-blacks and instead called them “interracial unions”? That would be like saying that some people are less human than others.

That’s how I see the gay marriage issue. By not allowing them to marry, we are sending the message that they are something less than human.

The issue back then (miscegenation laws ) was about “race”. The issue of whether you were gay was not in play. Gays today have all their rights as Americans. Civil Unions do exatly what is needed to allow partners to enter in hositals and or act in near death situations (or others/where true married and or family members would be making life/death decisions..only one example). But this seems to be not enough…the sanctity of “marriage” cannot be redefined without re-writing the faith books of many religions/beliefs systems.

I dis-agree that Gays are seen as not human. Civil Unions are exactly the papers you say we don’t give them.

Have you ever heard of the separation of church and state? We don’t live in a theocracy. If the GOVERNMENT recognizes gay marriage, it has nothing to do with what your church says about it.

And why don’t these churches get some morals themselves! The Catholic Church has a problem with molestation and covering it up, and the Mormon Church has members who practice polygamy. How many thousands have been hurt by the misbehavior of these churches?

I hear it all the time…the question really is, have you ever really looked at where this mis-conception (of separation of church ans state) comes from? The reality is the Judeo-Christian faith was imbedded into the founding fathers core writings (visit Dc and you’ll see it everywhere)…it is only until recently (about 60 years ago or so) that these words have been used by liberals to try and thwart the courts to get what the want (ie abortion, gay marriage etc).
And, again, I dis-agree with you. You assume the Government is in the business of redefining itself to meet current trends or lifestyles.
So lets for a second say I agree with “separation of church and state”. Marriage is institutionalized (from 100’s of years before) in religion/faith. The Government under even this far-reaching example/scenario would still have NO business defining what marriage is (think separation of church ans state), especially if it’s been solidfied to mean one man and one woman.
BUT, because we live in the greatest country inthe world, we are afforded a vote on these things. The vote was clear, no same sex marriages in the most liberal state in the union!
Not sure what bashing the Catholic and or Mormon Church has to do with this.

You’re right Anna, we don’t live in a theocracy, even though that would appeal to a lot of self-righteous racist people. The LDS Church (Mormons) financed and promoted Yes on Prop 8, despite their conflicting history covering up their own history, their history of repressing women, their history of dictating political policy in Utah, their history of influencing public education in Utah and Idaho, and their history of claiming that whole Book of Mormon-Nephite Lamanite story is factual. The Gay community has targeted them for good reason. They are a huge enterprise, fully committed to turning the world into several social classes of vanilla. I don’t know if the Roman Catholic Church has the fiscal means to get involved in these causes after all those molestation civil law suits. I do know there are numerous cases still being filed in court all regarding this same issue. The Evangelicals and their various enterprises have also put a lot of money behind Yes on Prop 8. It’s all so Christ-like isn’t it?

I don’t understand why these churches are so threatened. Gay marriage was legal all summer and the world didn’t end. They should tend to their own problems.

And Reyfeo, you should read the constitution. The separation of church and state isn’t just something liberals came up with 60 years ago. lolol

Marriage is a legal contract, sanctioned by the government. That’s why before you get married, you have to go to City Hall and get a marriage license, not to a church. Nothing in the law says that you have to get married in a church, or by a member of the clergy.

You’re just bringing religion into it to make your bigotry seem moral and sanctioned by God.

Oh and guess what? The same guy who ran the Prop 187 campaign, Ron Prentice, ran the Prop 8 campaign.

No, I do not think that polygamy is a civil right. Marriage between two people of the same sex is not illegal. However, in this country polygamy is illegal. What is so amazing to me is this would come up as an issue. The fact that we are discussing the rights for TWO people, not three or four, to marry each other and create a loving environment baffles me. Their union does not devalue the institute of marriage at all. Is the marriage between individuals of the opposite sex so fragile?

Your distinction baffles me. You write, Marriage between two people of the same sex is not illegal. However, in this country polygamy is illegal.

Let me get this straight: in your mind, you believe gay marriage to be a civil right and polygamy not a civil right because of the difference in current legal codes? So then when interracial marriages were illegal, they were – ipso facto – not a civil right issue? Seems like a pretty flimsy distinction to me.

Regarding the rest of your post…you are simply begging the question. I could have written the same thing to you, from the standpoint of a proponent of polygamy. I could have said, for example:

What is so amazing to me is this would come up as an issue. The fact that we are discussing the rights for TWO OR MORE people, not people of the same sex, to marry each other and create a loving environment baffles me. Their union does not devalue the institute of marriage at all. Is the marriage between individuals of the opposite sex so fragile?

You see…your response only makes sense when you assume the validity of your side. Sorry, I’ll need something better.

I’m getting tired of the way second and third tier media outlets like the LA Times and the Sacramento Bee are characterizing the Latino vote on Prop 8. They’re making it seem like an overwhelming number of Latinos voted in favor, when it’s not true.

Latinos voted for Prop 8 by a SLIM majority: 53/47.

They want to make it seem like 100% of Latinos voted in favor, and 100% of whites voted against it.

MichaelR is correct. The Mormons funded this initiative in a major way. For them gay marriage is sinful but pedophillic behavior is spiritually redemptive. Give me a break!!! The Mormons got out of the bed with their underage wives. Spent some of their money they don’t pay in taxes, to support YES on Prop 8.

Prop 8 is not discrimination against a minority group; it’s simply to protect “Marriage” between a man and a woman. If same sex people want to live as married, let it be, they have civil rights just like any other group of people have civil rights; but don’t call it a marriage, here is an example ~ if you are a banana but want to be called an orange, well both the banana and the orange are fruits and deserve the same rights as any other fruit like being in the fruit section in a market, or sit in a fruit bowl with all other fruits, civil rights are the same and necessary to all people, regardless of race or sexual orientation, but don’t demand to be called an orange when you are a banana… And why is it so wrong and shameful that it is reported that the majority of Latinos voted in favor of Prop 8? Latinos are decent and honorable people just as any other race; actually you should be proud that we would stand for what is naturally and morally correct, why would anyone go against what is right just to be politically correct….?

The fact is this country the USA is founded on freedom of religion (and freedom from religion is included on that). So for you to say you voted on your religion–your god is really un-American.

Remember your religion is a choice. So maybe one day we can vote on denying Catholics the right to vote? Because that is what you are saying with this issue. Your beliefs are based on the “invisible man in the sky” which is fine–but they are YOUR beliefs.

Just because you disagree with people does not give you the rights to treat them as second class citizens.

Just for the record (for anyone who might find their way to this blog post again), I want to clarify that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (more commonly known as th “LDS” or “Mormon Church”) does not allow polygamy. As with those who are practicing homosexuals, those who are practicing polygamists, or those who insist on being sexually active with anyone other than their legal, opposite-sex spouse are subject to discipline from the Church, including being removed from membership (excommunicated). This has been the LDS Church’s position for more than a century.

For all Christians who believe that the Bible is the word of God, the practice of homosexuality, adultery, fornication, bestiality, pederasty,or any other form of sexual relations outside of the covenant of marriage is sin. As Benjamin Franklin once said: “Sin is not hurtful because it is forbidden but it is forbidden because it’s hurtful.” I agree. I don’t hate sinners, because after all, we all are sinners. I just cannot tolerate government officially sanctioning the sin.

BTW, disagreements based upon religion are by their very nature irreconcilable. We believe what we believe, and I thank God that I live in a country that still allows me the right to defend those beliefs.