They won't. However if they have even slow, weak internet access they can use that as the uplink and avoid the cost and frustration of trying to download the blockchain over that limited high cost link because it is being beamed out to blanket the entire earth.

The first sat internet worked on a similar fashion. The sats were downlink only. Your dish could only receive not send. So your uplink was by modem and your downlink was by sat. Another example is stock quotes. They were at one time broadcast services for pro traders because the full feed exceeded what was available in internet connectivity (think dialup). You could receive quote stream as a broadcast and use your slow limited internet connection just for trades.

Yeah antiquated by todays standards for the 1st world but still viable for bitcoin, because the bandwidth requirements are very asymmetric. It is GB and GB to download (possibly GB a week in the future) but tx are very small so the uplink requirements are minimal. You probably could do it by SMS to internet gateway if you had to.

And this is a full sized sat runing on much higher power levels. And neither of them use the B/G wifi band, which as I have alrady noted, is heavily attenutated by water and hydrocarbons in a way that the rest of the S band is not, and is the primary reason that said band is unlicesned to start with.

The best comparison that we might have for a setup that would work woudl be a ham radio sat. Here's one to compare...

This one uses several transmitters, but keep in mind that not only is this device using much narrower bandwidths, it's not attempting to transmit continuously. So putting out a 38 Kbps data signal at 300+ watts RMS for an average of a minute or two per hour is within the power requirements of a mini sat that has a 30 watt solar panel.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

There are many ways to solve the transaction propogation problem, the datacasting proposal in this thread is to solve the bulk blockchain distribution problem.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

The best way to make the datacasting idea work with consumer class wifi devices, would be to choose the wifi channel that is the most "distant" from the frequency that microwave ovens use and set it to a quarter channel multicast mode. Even still, the sat wouldn't be able to broadcast continuously and hit the -90 decibel signal point, it would have to broadcast in scheduled bursts. That might be okay, but even at -90 decibels, I don't think a cell phone would be able to hear it. A consumer grade hotspot with a marginally directional antenna pointed up might be able to receive the signal reliablely on a clear night (no clouds in the path, no sunlight induced ionosphere 'crashes' to raise the static background level) but if the guy wanting to receive these datacasts has to buy or build dedicated gear to receive it, then what good is trying to do it using wifi standards and channels? Datacasting is one of the design goals for DRM shortwave broadcasting.

I'm not convinced that a 10 cube mini sat has the power to push a receivable DRM signal on a continuous basis anyway. Again, an on-off transmit schedule might be best, particularly with the low earth orbit sats that circle the globe several times per day. They are usually only 'visable' to any particular receiver for about a half an hour, so perhaps a 10 minute burst of data followed by 50 minutes of rest/solar charging might still work. Of course, all these kinds of compromises reduce the actual amount of data that can be broadcast. Eventually we end up back with a normal shortwave broadcasting operation on planet Earth that can transmit continuously from a grid and reflect their signal off the ionosphere.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

And this is a full sized sat runing on much higher power levels. And neither of them use the B/G wifi band, which as I have alrady noted, is heavily attenutated by water and hydrocarbons in a way that the rest of the S band is not, and is the primary reason that said band is unlicesned to start with.

Come on now, you can't be serious. Yes water and hydrocarbons do attenuate all signals (to a different degree), but physics is physics and there isn't a magical attenuation window right at 2.4 Ghz.

You got a point on the power of the sat but water is going to look the same to a radio wave at 2.4Ghz as it does at 2.3 Ghz (and 2.5Ghz and 2.2 Ghz). Now at 12 Ghz it would be a different story. That is the major disadvantage of Ku sat communication band. Much higher power (no interference with earth bound microwave transmitters) but in areas with a a lot of rainfall it is inferior to C band because water is almost opaque to a 12 Ghz radio wave. So areas with a lot of rainfall generally use the lower end of C band instead (~4 Ghz).

I am not sure if it would have enough power, that is a good point, but the frequency is fine. If you have a cite showing 2.4 Ghz attenuates far worse than 2.2 Ghz or 2.5 Ghz I would love to read it. BTW I agree with you that the project is likely too ambitious for the power and size constraints. To use consumer wifi band would probably require more power and more powerful transmitters. Still I like the idea in general as a way to blanket the earth with the blockchain.

but if the guy wanting to receive these datacasts has to buy or build dedicated gear to receive it, then what good is trying to do it using wifi standards and channels?

I think using standard wifi gear (like an off the shelf usb dongle or a cellphone) is likely a pipe dream. They were never really designed that kind of purpose. Still there is merit in using the wifi frequency (and possibly channel structure) as it would drop the cost of mass producing customized receivers. The chips that power wifi radios are dirt cheap because they are produced by the billions each year. Hell you might get away with using a high gain antenna and a custom firmware flashed on a certain routers (think dd-wrt but for space based signal).

The other advantage is that there is no license required. 5 Ghz might be a better choice though, I wonder if there is any data on comparisons between 2.4 Ghz and 5.0 Ghz over this type of link.

And this is a full sized sat runing on much higher power levels. And neither of them use the B/G wifi band, which as I have alrady noted, is heavily attenutated by water and hydrocarbons in a way that the rest of the S band is not, and is the primary reason that said band is unlicesned to start with.

Come on now, you can't be serious. Yes water and hydrocarbons do attenuate all signals (to a different degree), but physics is physics and there isn't a magical attenuation window right at 2.4 Ghz.

Hmm, I was going off of memory, but upon checking it seems that 2.45 Ghz isn't the resonate frequency of hydrogen. Apparently that's actually 1.42 Ghz, or more precisely 1,420,405,751.786 hertz. And checking oxygen it's 5.85 Ghz. So apparently I was wrong about 2.45 Ghz having a high attenuation point. I just got called out, and failed to perform. Well done, Death.

According to this page, 2.45 is a "good average" between those two, with the goal of permitting the radio signal some degree of penetration into the food, which (according to them) wouldn't be possible with a precise resonate frequency because the signal would dump all it's energy into the first couple of millimeters of the surface.

In my defense, there does exist a "magical attenuation window" in the microwave spectrum, it's just not at 2.45 Ghz. So my complaints about high attenution in teh wifi spectrum are without merit.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

but if the guy wanting to receive these datacasts has to buy or build dedicated gear to receive it, then what good is trying to do it using wifi standards and channels?

I think using standard wifi gear (like an off the shelf usb dongle or a cellphone) is likely a pipe dream. They were never really designed that kind of purpose. Still there is merit in using the wifi frequency (and possibly channel structure) as it would drop the cost of mass producing customized receivers. The chips that power wifi radios are dirt cheap because they are produced by the billions each year. Hell you might get away with using a high gain antenna and a custom firmware flashed on a certain routers (think dd-wrt but for space based signal).

That's just the thing, if you have to get a dd-wrt and a directional antenna to receive it, why not just use DRM and shortwave receivers? Again, datacasting is what DRM was designed for, and it uses a much more "efficient" schema in addition to the much narrower bandwidth (power) requirement. Sure, it's data rate is slower, but like you said, that's physics.

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The other advantage is that there is no license required. 5 Ghz might be a better choice though, I wonder if there is any data on comparisons between 2.4 Ghz and 5.0 Ghz over this type of link.

That's actually not true. The license free ISM bands are only license free for terrestrial & incidental emitters, and every nation sets a pretty low transmission power limit. The ISM license free argument, for a low earth orbit sat, fails on both counts. They might get away with it, if they can get the sat up there and say "opps, sorry", but they won't get away with it if teh FCC gets wind of it.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

Why is the response dubious. Remember this isn't a two way system. It is more like broadcast sat TV but for information.

Mostly because the "world record" link they cite is not 2.4ghz and uses carefully-aligned directional antennas on both ends and "high sensitivity" receivers. Putting that in a cubesat and broadcasting to consumer grade hardware, without an antenna or tracking, stretches credulity a bit.

The closest precedent I've found is the CanX-2 satellite, which was 3u and broadcast in the S band at 256 kbps, though likely to a directional receiver.

I have no idea how common such support is for cell phones, but with a receive sensitivity of -107 db the loss of data rate might actually make this thing workable.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

XR mode seems to be bullshitware.it never really existed or was never really implemented..

There is no public account of it ever working or being tested compared reviewed in either Linux or Windows.Nobody I've talked with knows anything about or has ever seen this work..

If they have, they are not willing to share information.

Atheros + any entitiy that sells XR mode enabled devices has never been publicly challenged or reviewed or otherwise documented on the XR featureother than repeat of the sales information and what the feature promised to offer.

This is my opinion and is based on 6 months of solid digging & research.

I am and have been in direct contact with Atheros on the subject and I'm told it's no longer sold or supported.

While these guys aren't to keen on it for their purposes, it does work somewhat. Basicly the timing of transmissions are slowed down, to permit better low-signal copy. A similar trick can be used with 100baseTX ethernet to extend the cable range limit between two bridge devices. Your datarate is affected as well, which they admit. Hams do something similar with very slow computer controlled morse code.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

Sadly thus far, there has been little 3rd party driver support to include this. Note that all of the newer Atheros Chipsets starting with the 9XXX series (The stuff that now is pushing 802.11n) has dropped XR mode.

I understand how it works. What you don't seem to understand is that there is a reason it has been discontinued. It's probably not a technical reason.

Sadly thus far, there has been little 3rd party driver support to include this. Note that all of the newer Atheros Chipsets starting with the 9XXX series (The stuff that now is pushing 802.11n) has dropped XR mode.

I understand how it works. What you don't seem to understand is that there is a reason it has been discontinued. It's probably not a technical reason.

True. I have no idea how many chipsets that might harbor a hidden support for XR mode might exist in the wild.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

The Bitcoin blockchain can be kept up-to-date with less than a 2400 baud connection. ... Or is this concept simply wildly-unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky speculation?

Maintaining the blockchain requires bi-directional communication. Your proposal is basically transmit only. that works ok for something like price quotes, where if you miss one, you just wait for the next time it is quoted. If you miss a part of the block chain, you need to request the data to be retransmitted. What if your town looses power for 8 hours? You need all that data to be rebroadcast when power comes back up.

I could see the broadcast for the major part of the data, and your own internet connection to request missed blocks.

The Bitcoin blockchain can be kept up-to-date with less than a 2400 baud connection. ... Or is this concept simply wildly-unrealistic, pie-in-the-sky speculation?

Maintaining the blockchain requires bi-directional communication.

This is not true. Transacting with bitcoin requires bi-directional communications between transacting parties, but maintaining a local copy of the blockchain most certainly does not.

Quote

I could see the broadcast for the major part of the data, and your own internet connection to request missed blocks.

This would work also, but is not required per the light client protocol. What has been proposed is to broadcast the blocks as they are published, and ultimately to broadcast the blocks "naked" once that protocol is ready. The reason is that, eventually, most user clients will be some flavor of light client. Unlike a full client, that are normal today, a light client doesn't care about all of the transactions in a block, and doesn't participate in the p2p bitcoin network (other than as an edge node, listening for it's own transactions). A light client can fucntion just fine with occasional access to a bridge node (such as an electrum node) that can provide the light client information concerning transactions it's seen with addresses that the light client manages. All that the light client requires is the blockchain headers and the merkel trees of block that contain input transactions for all of it's own addresses. Broadcasting the published blocks would provide an alternative method for light clients to aquire the most recent block headers & merkle trees. A light client may or may not keep the merkle trees for the blocks that it doesn't have input transactions, but as small as they are individually, the actual transactions are the bulk of data a full node sees while connected to the p2p network, and a light client has no use for most of these transactions. Datacasting of naked blocks (block headers and merkle trees with all transactions pruned out) to either light clients directly or to disconnected bridge nodes used as intermediaries would permit bitcoin economies to function with only slow or occasional access to the Internet.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

So, you need bi-direction communications to request the retransmission of missed blocks. Yes, the lite client only needs its blocks, but it does not know that it missed a block with data that it needs. With bi-direction communication, the lite client can request block numbers relevant to it (with its address), check to see which of the blocks it does not have, and if it is missing any, request a retransmission.

Think about this scenario:1) There is a service that transmits new blocks in the clear. It is active 24/72) Your client goes off line for 2 hours (battery died, and you did not know it).3) At one hour into your blackout, a block relevant to you was transmitted.4) At hour 2, you put in a new battery and start receiving blocks again.

Without bi-directional communications, how do you get the missed block?

What you do is this. Let's say the blockchain requires 2400 baud just as a constant stream. Instead, you broadcast at some higher rate, say 4800 baud. With the extra bandwidth, you re-broadcast the same thing, but delayed a bit. So, with twice the bandwidth, each block gets transmitted twice. If you miss it the first time, you have a chance of getting it the second. With more bandwidth, you can add on more interesting schemes such that, eventually with enough throughput, it's possible to transmit the entire blockchain over and over again in pieces and if you listen long enough, you're guaranteed to get all of it.

What you do is this. Let's say the blockchain requires 2400 baud just as a constant stream. Instead, you broadcast at some higher rate, say 4800 baud. With the extra bandwidth, you re-broadcast the same thing, but delayed a bit. So, with twice the bandwidth, each block gets transmitted twice. If you miss it the first time, you have a chance of getting it the second. With more bandwidth, you can add on more interesting schemes such that, eventually with enough throughput, it's possible to transmit the entire blockchain over and over again in pieces and if you listen long enough, you're guaranteed to get all of it.

Most datacasting protocols (for example, Digital Radio Mondiale) includes this delayed double transmission within it's protocol automaticly. It's called "forward error correction". While not perfect, it does work pretty well and actually doesn't require a full doubling of bandwidth.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

Without bi-directional communications, how do you get the missed block?

You don't always need a missed block, but if you do, there are alternative paths to aquire missed data. That's the advantage of a true p2p network, you're never dependent upon any particular peer for performance. Datacasting the blockchain would reduce the bandwidth requirements of (potentially) thousands of clients within the practcial range of the datacaster. That does not mean that it would eliminate the occasional need for a direct connection to the bitcoin network.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."