Not a sexy pick at all, but i would love to get the bane of my lions existence off the team and replace him with someone good...

January 23rd, 2012, 1:22 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Peter Konz

thauser wrote:

Not a sexy pick at all, but i would love to get the bane of my lions existence off the team and replace him with someone good...

You'll find a lot of support on this board for Konz. IMO he's the pick that makes the most sense. Youth, size, and stability on the OL. He would be cheaper than Raiola, allowing a cost savings next year when we could cut or trade him. He could instantly take over for Peterman on the OL, learn for a year, and slide over to C. And he would free up cash to re-sign some of our much needed FAs.

January 23rd, 2012, 5:02 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Peter Konz

wjb21ndtown wrote:

thauser wrote:

Not a sexy pick at all, but i would love to get the bane of my lions existence off the team and replace him with someone good...

You'll find a lot of support on this board for Konz. IMO he's the pick that makes the most sense. Youth, size, and stability on the OL. He would be cheaper than Raiola, allowing a cost savings next year when we could cut or trade him. He could instantly take over for Peterman on the OL, learn for a year, and slide over to C. And he would free up cash to re-sign some of our much needed FAs.

Exactly.

Though I think defense needs to be addressed, I this this is the one exception in the first round. If he is there at 23, i want him.

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

January 23rd, 2012, 9:32 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Peter Konz

BillySims wrote:

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

January 24th, 2012, 12:39 am

liontrax

NFL Team Captain

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1612Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: Peter Konz

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Sorry, maybe it's just me, but I don't see where adding Konz transforms our running game to formidable. I'm all for drafting O-line, but think it will take more than one guy to make a difference. Kind of like what you said about adding one to the back 7. Imo, C, RG and RT, all need to be upgraded. If the Lions are able to add a guard and tackle from the draft, in a year where there seems to be pretty good depth at those positions, could go a long way in improving the running game, not to mention keeping Stafford healthier.Currently there are four players that could warrant 1st round grades at tackle: Matt Kalil, Riley Reiff, Jonathan Martin and Zebrie Sanders. Two more potential 1st rounders in Cordy Glenn and Kelchi Osemele, are being listed at guard, but could be considered tackle candidates as well. The same has been said of David DeCastro, who seems to be the consensus #1 at guard, and Brandon Washington, who is currently listed as an early 2nd rounder. There are many others listed as 2nd to 3rd round talent, so I have high hopes the Lions will take a couple of these guys in the first 4 rounds. I feel that you have to take what the draft gives you. This year it seems to be an abundance of O-line talent. On the other side off the ball, we need a SS. Only one carrying a 1st round grade, and I have doubts he will be there at 23. Hoping we can address that problem in free agency. As for linebackers, I would like to see the Lions add at least one in the first 4 rounds, and another in later rounds. I feel like safety and linebacker were our biggest liability on defense last season.

January 24th, 2012, 8:28 am

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Peter Konz

liontrax wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Sorry, maybe it's just me, but I don't see where adding Konz transforms our running game to formidable. I'm all for drafting O-line, but think it will take more than one guy to make a difference. Kind of like what you said about adding one to the back 7. Imo, C, RG and RT, all need to be upgraded. If the Lions are able to add a guard and tackle from the draft, in a year where there seems to be pretty good depth at those positions, could go a long way in improving the running game, not to mention keeping Stafford healthier.Currently there are four players that could warrant 1st round grades at tackle: Matt Kalil, Riley Reiff, Jonathan Martin and Zebrie Sanders. Two more potential 1st rounders in Cordy Glenn and Kelchi Osemele, are being listed at guard, but could be considered tackle candidates as well. The same has been said of David DeCastro, who seems to be the consensus #1 at guard, and Brandon Washington, who is currently listed as an early 2nd rounder. There are many others listed as 2nd to 3rd round talent, so I have high hopes the Lions will take a couple of these guys in the first 4 rounds. I feel that you have to take what the draft gives you. This year it seems to be an abundance of O-line talent. On the other side off the ball, we need a SS. Only one carrying a 1st round grade, and I have doubts he will be there at 23. Hoping we can address that problem in free agency. As for linebackers, I would like to see the Lions add at least one in the first 4 rounds, and another in later rounds. I feel like safety and linebacker were our biggest liability on defense last season.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree that C, RG, and RT need replaced. But its really hard to replace all 3 of those positions in one year, so why not draft Konz to get one heck of a good start?

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Our ground game will be just fine next year with a healthy Best and LeShoure to add to Smith. You can get a really good Guard in the 2nd round easily. It's a bit harder to to get a starting CB after the 1st round.

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Our ground game will be just fine next year with a healthy Best and LeShoure to add to Smith. You can get a really good Guard in the 2nd round easily. It's a bit harder to to get a starting CB after the 1st round.

This, run game is fine.

_________________

Follow me on Twitter: @W2G4U

January 25th, 2012, 2:24 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4214Location: Davison Mi

Re: Peter Konz

dont count on Concussion Man to come back. It would probably not be wise for him to do so. One more and he might end up talking like poor Muhammed Ali for the rest of what could potentially be a very short life. It would be awsome if he comes back, I just dont know how safe that will be.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

January 25th, 2012, 2:38 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Peter Konz

liontrax wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Sorry, maybe it's just me, but I don't see where adding Konz transforms our running game to formidable. I'm all for drafting O-line, but think it will take more than one guy to make a difference. Kind of like what you said about adding one to the back 7. Imo, C, RG and RT, all need to be upgraded. If the Lions are able to add a guard and tackle from the draft, in a year where there seems to be pretty good depth at those positions, could go a long way in improving the running game, not to mention keeping Stafford healthier.Currently there are four players that could warrant 1st round grades at tackle: Matt Kalil, Riley Reiff, Jonathan Martin and Zebrie Sanders. Two more potential 1st rounders in Cordy Glenn and Kelchi Osemele, are being listed at guard, but could be considered tackle candidates as well. The same has been said of David DeCastro, who seems to be the consensus #1 at guard, and Brandon Washington, who is currently listed as an early 2nd rounder. There are many others listed as 2nd to 3rd round talent, so I have high hopes the Lions will take a couple of these guys in the first 4 rounds. I feel that you have to take what the draft gives you. This year it seems to be an abundance of O-line talent.

On the other side off the ball, we need a SS. Only one carrying a 1st round grade, and I have doubts he will be there at 23. Hoping we can address that problem in free agency. As for linebackers, I would like to see the Lions add at least one in the first 4 rounds, and another in later rounds. I feel like safety and linebacker were our biggest liability on defense last season.

Konz (I've stated before, I don't care if it is Konz, I just care that it is someone that can make an IMMEDIATE upgrade at OG/C and can later step in at C) allows us to cut Dominic Raiola after next season, saving the team approximately $2.5 million dollars. He adds 20-30 lbs of beef to the OL, he is much stronger than Peterman, and he finally gives us a pair of solid OGs. He won't be a cure-all for the OL, but he'll be a HUGE help. IMO a top notch OG will help the running game (and help the team) more than anyone in the upcoming draft.

I realize that multiple positions on the OL need to be fixed. I have stated that for the last TEN YEARS, but you can't neglect the OL because it's "too broken." IMO history has proven that the OL works best when it has been together for a length of time. Replacing multiple OLman leads to multiple problems. If we can get a Backus replacement at 23 that will be an IMMEDIATE upgrade, I'm all for it. If not, I think we have to go with Kontz if he is available. He reduces the collective age of the OL by almost 10 years, adds size, strength, and ability to the OL. We won't have to deal with Doms ridiculous "leg whip" or "chop blocks," and we'll be adding a road grader that can actually take on a DL man 1 on 1.

Konz would solidify the OG/C spot, allow us to keep Raiola for one more season and replace Raiola with an experienced C that knows the team, knows the line and knows the coaches, reduce the age of the OL, save us $2.5 million dollars (helping us re-sign some of our other talent), allows us to evaluate Gos for another season, and perhaps test his ability to move inside, and allows us to systematically fix the OL one piece at a time, without making harsh wholesale changes. It seems like a win all the way around if you ask me.

BillySims wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

BillySims wrote:

I would much prefer to get someone that will help our defense stop Green Bay and New Orleans offenses at least once per half.

Are you forgetting the first half of our only playoff game in 10 years? If we could have moved the ball on the ground we would have been up by at least 16 or 17 points in the 2nd half WITH a well rested D.

Add one Lb or S or Cb to our very average D with a ton of holes and I think you get the same exact outcome that we saw - a Lions loss.

Our ground game will be just fine next year with a healthy Best and LeShoure to add to Smith. You can get a really good Guard in the 2nd round easily. It's a bit harder to to get a starting CB after the 1st round.

Sorry Billy, but our problems running the ball have little to do with who is running the ball, and much more to do with who is blocking for them. Our interior line is a joke. We have one above average run blocker that is above average size, and two horrible run blockers that are both considered small/weak by NFL standards. They can't get it done. If there were holes to run through I'd concede your point, but our line gives these guys nothing. If the line was good we would be able to pick up 3rd and shorts with virtually anyone back there. We can't even Qb sneak the ball one damn yard, that's pathetic.

January 25th, 2012, 2:55 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Peter Konz

The acquisition of Peter Konz would help both the run and passing game. He allows the Lions to get Peterman out of there and free up whatever salary he is making (which is too much, even if it's just a buck). It solves the issue of the replacement for Raiola once his deal is up next season. There is no left tackle that can be there for the Lions. Cordy Glenn is being considered as a candidate for guard, but so far the reports from the Senior Bowl are that he is more than capable of playing tackle in the NFL. More than likely right tackle, but some are even saying he has the feet and balance to play the left side. If that opinion remains, he'll be long gone by the time the Lions pick. Konz is an immediate upgrade.

As for the running game being fine once Best and LeShoure comes back....how in the HELL can anyone say that?!?! Best wasn't doing that great when he was healthy, and there is a strong possibility he won't return. And even if he does, I highly doubt the team will use him as a full time starter. LeShoure had an Achilles Tendon rupture. That type of injury to a running back can be career ending. Even if he is able to come back, it is HIGHLY doubtful he will return to the form that caused the Lions to move up to get him last year. Kevin Smith is still the injury prone player he has been the past few seasons. The Lions can't count on any of these players returning to form, or for long. That said, I hope they don't burn yet another high pick on a running back. I'd prefer they nab someone in the later rounds, and get a decent free agent back if Best retires and LeShoure is a shadow of his former self.

I understand the wants of upgrading the defense, and I'm all for it. However, you can't simply ignore the needs on the other side of the ball either. Konz would be a good value pick, and would be an immediate upgrade over Peterman this season, and Raiola next season. Unless Dre Kirkpatrick somehow falls into the Lions lap, I don't see any other defensive player who would make as much of an immediate impact for our defense as Konz would for our offense. And personally, I don't think Kirkpatrick falls out of the top 15.

Much will depend on exactly what the Lions do in free agency, much like any normal year. If the Lions re-sign Tulloch, they probably won't really be looking for a linebacker. If they re-sign Wright, they may not be interested in a cornerback. Remember, when they attempted to trade up last year for Patrick Peterson, neither Chris Houston nor Eric Wright were under contract for us.

And once again, let me reiterate....blaming OUR offense on the New Orleans loss in the playoffs is outrageous. It's the offense that works to score points, not prevent the other offense from scoring points. That's the job of the defense, and they failed miserably in the second half of the game. Having a semblance of a running game wouldn't have made that much difference. Certainly not to the tune of 17 points. Our offense scored 28 points. They did their job. The defense failed in that game, as well as in the last game of the season against Green Bay. It's not like our offense was giving the Saints the ball on a short field. Same with Green Bay. I want the Lions to have a better defense, and I would like to see a more consistent running game. But don't blame the lack of one on the failing of another.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

January 25th, 2012, 5:07 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Peter Konz

m2karateman wrote:

And once again, let me reiterate....blaming OUR offense on the New Orleans loss in the playoffs is outrageous. It's the offense that works to score points, not prevent the other offense from scoring points. That's the job of the defense, and they failed miserably in the second half of the game. Having a semblance of a running game wouldn't have made that much difference. Certainly not to the tune of 17 points. Our offense scored 28 points. They did their job. The defense failed in that game, as well as in the last game of the season against Green Bay. It's not like our offense was giving the Saints the ball on a short field. Same with Green Bay. I want the Lions to have a better defense, and I would like to see a more consistent running game. But don't blame the lack of one on the failing of another.

M2 - to be clear, I don't fault our offense for not scoring enough points. I do fault them for not taking advantage of the defensive turnovers, but the primary reason I blame the offense for the N.O. loss is because they couldn't sustain drives. We only held the ball for 5 minutes and 13 seconds in the second Q. We went three and out taking 30 whopping seconds off of the clock our last possession of the second half, after which time N.O. marched down the field effortlessly with ONE DRIVE that took 5:03 seconds off of the clock to kick a FG to end the half. I give the defense a free pass from here on out. They were on the field for 3 minutes and 38 seconds of clock time, probably about 7-8 minutes of real time, forced a fumble, and got a WHOPPING 30 seconds of game time rest, probably about a minute and a half. That's on the offense, NOT the defense. From that point on they were gassed and demoralized, and I can't blame them for that.

THEN N.O. came out of the 1/2 putting our D right back on the field, scored, and we went three and out again! We only possessed the ball for 5 minutes 34 seconds in the 3rd quarter. That's ridiculous and ENTIRELY THE OFFENSE'S FAULT.

To start the 4th Q we had a 1 play 1 interception drive, again giving our D zero rest then we FINALLY put one drive together and scored before throwing yet another INT to end the game. We possessed the ball for around 3 minutes and 20 seconds for the 4th quarter.

You tell me how the defense was at fault, and I'll excuse them. They played their ASSES off the first quarter and for the majority of the 2nd quarter, until the OFFENSE kept screwing them and sending them out there on short rest.

January 25th, 2012, 5:27 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4214Location: Davison Mi

Re: Peter Konz

isnt the obvious answer "make a freakin stop"?\

I mean I understand what you are saying..buttime of possesion is a two way street. if you are on defense and want a rest...stop em on 3rd down....at least ONCE in a game.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

January 25th, 2012, 5:43 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Peter Konz

m2karateman wrote:

The acquisition of Peter Konz would help both the run and passing game. He allows the Lions to get Peterman out of there and free up whatever salary he is making (which is too much, even if it's just a buck). It solves the issue of the replacement for Raiola once his deal is up next season. There is no left tackle that can be there for the Lions. Cordy Glenn is being considered as a candidate for guard, but so far the reports from the Senior Bowl are that he is more than capable of playing tackle in the NFL. More than likely right tackle, but some are even saying he has the feet and balance to play the left side. If that opinion remains, he'll be long gone by the time the Lions pick. Konz is an immediate upgrade.

As for the running game being fine once Best and LeShoure comes back....how in the HELL can anyone say that?!?! Best wasn't doing that great when he was healthy, and there is a strong possibility he won't return. And even if he does, I highly doubt the team will use him as a full time starter. LeShoure had an Achilles Tendon rupture. That type of injury to a running back can be career ending. Even if he is able to come back, it is HIGHLY doubtful he will return to the form that caused the Lions to move up to get him last year. Kevin Smith is still the injury prone player he has been the past few seasons. The Lions can't count on any of these players returning to form, or for long. That said, I hope they don't burn yet another high pick on a running back. I'd prefer they nab someone in the later rounds, and get a decent free agent back if Best retires and LeShoure is a shadow of his former self.

I understand the wants of upgrading the defense, and I'm all for it. However, you can't simply ignore the needs on the other side of the ball either. Konz would be a good value pick, and would be an immediate upgrade over Peterman this season, and Raiola next season. Unless Dre Kirkpatrick somehow falls into the Lions lap, I don't see any other defensive player who would make as much of an immediate impact for our defense as Konz would for our offense. And personally, I don't think Kirkpatrick falls out of the top 15.

Much will depend on exactly what the Lions do in free agency, much like any normal year. If the Lions re-sign Tulloch, they probably won't really be looking for a linebacker. If they re-sign Wright, they may not be interested in a cornerback. Remember, when they attempted to trade up last year for Patrick Peterson, neither Chris Houston nor Eric Wright were under contract for us.

And once again, let me reiterate....blaming OUR offense on the New Orleans loss in the playoffs is outrageous. It's the offense that works to score points, not prevent the other offense from scoring points. That's the job of the defense, and they failed miserably in the second half of the game. Having a semblance of a running game wouldn't have made that much difference. Certainly not to the tune of 17 points. Our offense scored 28 points. They did their job. The defense failed in that game, as well as in the last game of the season against Green Bay. It's not like our offense was giving the Saints the ball on a short field. Same with Green Bay. I want the Lions to have a better defense, and I would like to see a more consistent running game. But don't blame the lack of one on the failing of another.

I agree so much with what WJB and M2k said (even though I quoted M2k), that its insane. This seems like freakin common sense. Konz would do absolute wonders for out team. Stafford proved what he can do with zero running game, and below average pass protection. Get him some protection and an improved running game and God knows what the kid can do. It just makes too much sense guys. And like M2 said, unless Dre falls to us, which he wont, is there really nother defensive player most likely at that spot that will immediately improve this defense? No. Probably not at least.

If Konz falls to us, the Lions would be absolutely brain dead not to take him. YES, there are other players that probably can make an immediate "contribution", but someone like Konz can come in the day after the draft and start. I have no doubt in my mind.

I dont know much about the whole salary cap thing, but as WJB said, it will save us money. Not a TON, but money is money.

Again, drafting Konz makes absolutely the most sense. Start him at RG next to Dom, then eventually take over his spot.

Make the move Mayhew, make the move. If i have to promise to buy tickets to a game, then whatever. Ill do it.