PHOENIX -- Calling her action "mean spirited'' and a "mistake,'' Fred DuVal promised Monday if he is elected to rescind the executive order by Gov. Jan Brewer denying driver's licenses to "dreamers.''

"Forty eight states allow dreamers to drive,'' the Democrat gubernatorial candidate said during a debate. "We should join the rest of the nation.''

But Republican Doug Ducey said during the hour-long event broadcast on KAET-TV, the Phoenix PBS affiliate, that he sides with Brewer's 2012 decision to deny licenses to the nearly 21,000 Arizonans who have been accepted into the federal government's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

"I am going to have respect and compassion for everyone,'' Ducey said.

"But I don't think anyone gets the privileges and benefits of hardworking Arizona families that are paid for by hardworking Arizona taxpayers,'' he said. "We're a nation of immigrants and we're a nation of laws.''

Other highlights in the fourth of the five debates the pair have agreed to include:

- Ducey, for the first time, said he would veto any bid by the Republican-controlled Legislature to repeal the expansion of Medicaid pushed through last year by Brewer, at least for the time being. Ducey said while he is opposed to "Obamacare,'' that program will fund Arizona's expansion for at least the next three years and he wants those dollars to keep coming.

- DuVal chided Ducey for refusing to publicly disclose the terms of what happened after he sold Cold Stone Creamery in 2007 and the buyers demanded arbitration because they said the company was worth only a fraction of what he claimed. Ducey has not disputed that the $80 million sales price had to be renegotiated to a fraction of that but said there's no reason to discuss it now because the buyers are now happy.

- Both candidates said they support more "transparency'' in campaign finance laws to require "dark money'' groups to disclose the source of their spending on efforts to influence elections. But neither laid out specific legislation they would support to accomplish that goal.

The issue of the driver's licenses stems from the Obama administration approving DACA. It allows those who arrived as children and were not yet 30 in 2012 to seek permission not only to stay but also to work.

But Brewer directed the state Motor Vehicle Division not to issue licenses to DACA recipients. She said they do not meet the requirements of a 1996 Arizona law which says only people "authorized'' to be in this country can get licenses.

Immigrant rights groups sued, with the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals saying the DACA recipients should be licensed while the legal points are debated. But at this point none of that is happening as Brewer and the state have appealed.

DuVal said it's time to end the lawsuit.

"These dreamers are part of our community,'' he said.

"They've been raised here, they've been successful,'' DuVal continued. "They've served in the military or are going to school.''

He said it is in the state's interest to license them so they can contribute to Arizona's economy. And, if nothing else, he said it means they are more likely to have state-mandated liability insurance.

Ducey said he sees the issue from the perspective of "how we got here.''

That, he said, starts with the failure of the federal government to "do its first duty to Arizona'' to secure the border.

Ducey deflected a question by host Ted Simons who questioned whether the governor's move is divisive. Instead, he said the first priority has to be border security.

"And then we can deal with some of the other issues around immigration,'' Ducey said.

Nor would he directly answer the question of whether he thinks "dreamers'' should be deported.

"I'm for opportunity for all in our state and that's the type of governor I want to be,'' Ducey responded.

Libertarian Barry Hess, who has not been in prior debates, said that, like DuVal, he sees the issue in practical terms: A license is needed to get insurance.

"People are still going to drive, except they're going to drive uninsured,'' he said. "That's a big issue these days.''

Hess used his opportunity to interject his views into the ongoing debate about how Arizona should handle court rulings that lawmakers for years illegally ignored a voter-approved mandate to annually boost state aid to schools to account for inflation. DuVal wants to take a deal offered by schools to settle for $317 million increase in the base funding formula while Ducey wants to continue to appeal to look for a better deal.

By contrast, Hess wants to ask voters to repeal the entire funding formula.

"It's not about money,'' he said of education quality, calling the education system "bloated.'' He said a cheaper -- and better -- alternative would be more distance learning.

"You can get a far better education than the brick-and-mortar counterparts without the spreading of disease, without the spreading of bad behavior, without the logistics of security and all the other stuff that comes with these government schools,'' he said.

John Mealer, the candidate of the Americans Elect Party, used the opportunity to promote legalizing hemp -- a non psychoactive version of marijuana -- as a replacement for rubber and fiberglass and to create biofuels. But Mealer also said that, as far as he's concerned, Arizona should also legalize recreational use of marijuana and "tax it as we do alcohol.''

Sunday, September 21, 2014 1:30 pm

Bridgestone Corporation is venturing into producing rubber from a new source at a brand-new biorubber process research center in Mesa. The plant is already in operation but will host a grand opening on Sept. 22.

Sunday, September 1, 2013 9:22 am

Over the last decade, the farm bill has cost more than $168 billion. This program uses loans, price support and payments to protect family farmers. The program is to maintain a stable price and food supply.

Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Kristi Larson, a teacher at Mesa's ASU Preparatory Academy Polytechnic, was one of 20 educators from across the country chosen to take part in a research program provided by the Siemens STEM Academy, a partnership between the Siemens Foundation, Discovery Education, Oak Ridge Associated Universities and the College Board.

Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:43 pm

WASHINGTON — Uncompromising and politically emboldened, President Barack Obama urged a deeply divided Congress Tuesday night to embrace his plans to use government money to create jobs and strengthen the nation's middle class. He declared Republican ideas for reducing the deficit "even worse" than the unpalatable deals Washington had to stomach during his first term.

Sunday, January 13, 2013 7:59 am

There’s no other way to put it. Congress is simply addicted to spending Other People’s Money. The latest evidence of their problem was the bill to resolve the fiscal cliff, which was stuffed with slabs of pork. That’s like sneaking drugs into your rehab counseling sessions.

Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:49 am

The news is packed with headlines aghast at the recent report that Americans waste 40 percent of their food. Many are springing into action to connect food banks and shelters with restaurants, or find creative ways to compost or biofuel the leftovers. I’ve also seen reminders to “eat what you purchased.” Consumers are feeling guilty and to blame.

Thursday, September 6, 2012 10:49 am

The news is packed with headlines aghast at the recent report that Americans waste 40 percent of their food. Many are springing into action to connect food banks and shelters with restaurants, or find creative ways to compost or biofuel the leftovers. I’ve also seen reminders to “eat what you purchased.” Consumers are feeling guilty and to blame.

Monday, October 3, 2011 10:35 am

Tuesday, September 20, 2011 4:15 am

OK, so we're broke. Not "have to stretch to next payday" broke.
Really broke. Our accounts are overdrawn, the credit cards are
maxed out; and if that's China on the phone, tell them we just
stepped out. Yes, again.