Can't decide if this looks good, or cheesy.I can't get passed seeing all of those familiar faces (e.g. Tommy Lee Jones) pop up out of no where. It looks like a well done middle school play, which has me in camp cheesy.

jlawn001:Can't decide if this looks good, or cheesy.I can't get passed seeing all of those familiar faces (e.g. Tommy Lee Jones) pop up out of no where. It looks like a well done middle school play, which has me in camp cheesy.

Farkers, what say you?

The music does seem kind of maudlin and the particular cuts appear schmaltzy, but I'm holding out faith that it'll be like Glory and not Amistad.

I don't doubt DDL's ability to play Lincoln- I mean, he could probably play a convincing Mae West if he wanted to, he's just that good- but I worry about the Spielberg factor. How many shots will we see of Lincoln furrowing his brow grimly while standing in a darkened room at the White House? I propose a drinking game based on it.

A big concern of mine is the line in the trailer that "no one's ever been loved so much by the people". That's really not true. Lincoln was incredibly divisive in his time period. If this ends up being a movie about how Lincoln was a rah-rah hero and everyone loved him, it might be a problem. That's not who he was. To me, Lincoln is most summed up by this quote of his:

I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go.

jlawn001:Can't decide if this looks good, or cheesy.I can't get passed seeing all of those familiar faces (e.g. Tommy Lee Jones) pop up out of no where. It looks like a well done middle school play, which has me in camp cheesy.

Farkers, what say you?

spielbergs stuff is always kinda cheesy, SPR included.

his dialogue is always not great, the "heart string" tugs are always obvious, he's really not that great of a film maker, he just films violence better than anyone who's ever lived ever.

itll be interesting to see what he does with material from a guy like DDL. he's freakin amazing.

DamnYankees:A big concern of mine is the line in the trailer that "no one's ever been loved so much by the people". That's really not true. Lincoln was incredibly divisive in his time period. If this ends up being a movie about how Lincoln was a rah-rah hero and everyone loved him, it might be a problem. That's not who he was. To me, Lincoln is most summed up by this quote of his:

I have been driven many times upon my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go.

I'm reading the book this is based on on a plane tomorrow, which concerns the staff Lincoln surrounded himself with, including political rivals. Looking forward to book and movie.

bluecrabscribe:there4igraham: indarwinsshadow: Hard to believe that we ever believed that people aren't equal because they happened to be a different colour. I can't imagine that.

People still believe this. Have you ever visited the south?

Or the North? Or Europe? Or Asia? Africa, even? Bigotry doesn't end at the Mason-Dixon line.

Word. From the Autobiography of Malcolm X:

"Yes, I will pull off that liberal's halo that he spends such efforts cultivating! The North's liberals have been for so long pointing accusing fingers at the South and getting away with it that they have fits when they are exposed as the world's worst hypocrites.

I believe my own life mirrors this hypocrisy. I know nothing about the South. I am a creation of the Northern white man and of his hypocritical attitude toward the Negro."

jlawn001:Can't decide if this looks good, or cheesy.I can't get passed seeing all of those familiar faces (e.g. Tommy Lee Jones) pop up out of no where. It looks like a well done middle school play, which has me in camp cheesy.

Farkers, what say you?

I say you should try to make up your own mind and not worry about what others think.

DDL would run around Richmond in full make-up on when he was filming. More than a few people who I talked to were actually worried that he might encounter some people who still nursed familial resentment from the War of Northern Aggression. Turns out the only stories that came out of it were of everyone being very respectful and giving him and the other actors complete space.

It looks like there's also a focus on Lincoln's relationship with his sons, which was one of the most-if not the most-important things in his life. He loved his sons tremendously, used to let them have the run of the White House.

Which [*spoiler alert, if that's possible for someone who's been dead for a century and a half*] means there will be some serious tear-jerking in this movie, too.

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo:I don't doubt DDL's ability to play Lincoln- I mean, he could probably play a convincing Mae West if he wanted to, he's just that good- but I worry about the Spielberg factor. How many shots will we see of Lincoln furrowing his brow grimly while standing in a darkened room at the White House? I propose a drinking game based on it.

Sh*t, there were about 14 of those shots in the first 10 seconds of the trailer alone

SmackLT I like it, but his voice sounds a little higher than what I was expecting.

According to numerous reports describing the famous Lincoln-Douglass Debates of 1858, Lincoln had a high pitched sing-songy voice that seemed out of place for a tall, stoic man.

I agree with DamnYankees, this would be a tragedy if this was a rah-rah Lincoln movie, but I cannot see how it will not. Its based on the book of Doris Kearns Goodwin and directed by Steven Speilberg. For many people who never took a history class in college, this will be the de facto education of Lincoln for the masses, and I can already assume that many of the truths of Lincoln will be glossed over. It is my hope that Lincoln's mythologized attitude toward slavery and universal acceptance on many of his major decisions will be addressed truthfully.Interestingly, Tommy Lee Jones will play Thaddeus Stevens, the true abolitionist of his day. After Lincoln's death, Stevens was very influential and demanded a complete destruction of the Confederacy way of life as well as a thorough rebuilding of the South--even by force. He was also for full civil rights for freed slaves, including property ownership and laws forbidding discrimination based on race. Amazingly, these were very radical ideas for the time as most members of Congress did not know exactly what to do with freedmen after the Civil War, or what their place in society would eventually be (Lincoln toyed with the idea of allowing freedmen to go to the Carribean-a clear indication of the enormity of the problem).When studying forward thinking people in our past, Stevens should be at the top of the list.

torr5962:I agree with DamnYankees, this would be a tragedy if this was a rah-rah Lincoln movie, but I cannot see how it will not. Its based on the book of Doris Kearns Goodwin and directed by Steven Speilberg. For many people who never took a history class in college, this will be the de facto education of Lincoln for the masses, and I can already assume that many of the truths of Lincoln will be glossed over. It is my hope that Lincoln's mythologized attitude toward slavery and universal acceptance on many of his major decisions will be addressed truthfully.

Not to mention, there's about a 0% the movie touches on Lincoln's sexuality. Not that it needs to, but it's just a topic which has not ever gained any traction with mainstream students of history.

torr5962:SmackLTI like it, but his voice sounds a little higher than what I was expecting.

According to numerous reports describing the famous Lincoln-Douglass Debates of 1858, Lincoln had a high pitched sing-songy voice that seemed out of place for a tall, stoic man.

I agree with DamnYankees, this would be a tragedy if this was a rah-rah Lincoln movie, but I cannot see how it will not. Its based on the book of Doris Kearns Goodwin and directed by Steven Speilberg. For many people who never took a history class in college, this will be the de facto education of Lincoln for the masses, and I can already assume that many of the truths of Lincoln will be glossed over. It is my hope that Lincoln's mythologized attitude toward slavery and universal acceptance on many of his major decisions will be addressed truthfully.Interestingly, Tommy Lee Jones will play Thaddeus Stevens, the true abolitionist of his day. After Lincoln's death, Stevens was very influential and demanded a complete destruction of the Confederacy way of life as well as a thorough rebuilding of the South--even by force. He was also for full civil rights for freed slaves, including property ownership and laws forbidding discrimination based on race. Amazingly, these were very radical ideas for the time as most members of Congress did not know exactly what to do with freedmen after the Civil War, or what their place in society would eventually be (Lincoln toyed with the idea of allowing freedmen to go to the Carribean-a clear indication of the enormity of the problem).When studying forward thinking people in our past, Stevens should be at the top of the list.

DamnYankees:A big concern of mine is the line in the trailer that "no one's ever been loved so much by the people". That's really not true. Lincoln was incredibly divisive in his time period. If this ends up being a movie about how Lincoln was a rah-rah hero and everyone loved him, it might be a problem. That's not who he was.

The trailer is full of people clearly against him, his ideas, what he is doing, and so on. If it's any indication of what the film will be like, his time in office will be presented as divisive.

DamnYankees:Not to mention, there's about a 0% the movie touches on Lincoln's sexuality. Not that it needs to, but it's just a topic which has not ever gained any traction with mainstream students of history.

Largely because it's a fringe topic at best, one without evidence enough to give the debate true weight either way, and, frankly, because it just doesn't matter very much.

jlawn001:Can't decide if this looks good, or cheesy.I can't get passed seeing all of those familiar faces (e.g. Tommy Lee Jones) pop up out of no where. It looks like a well done middle school play, which has me in camp cheesy.

Farkers, what say you?

Tommy Lee was the most jarring of them all - something about his hair when he's got that little scene holding the cane or whatever it is... It seems like a bad wig. And maybe it's supposed to be one - but without that context that it's supposed to be a bad wig, it just looks silly, like something from an SNL sketch.

And there is something about hearing familiar voices, especially in a trailer, that's jarring - it sends you back to that place from where you're used to hearing that voice (modern day tough cop-type for Tommy Lee, there's that other guy who's like from Law and Order or whatever)...

Of course, don't have this problem with DDL, since he's a badass - but playing yourself is weird when you're in a period piece sometimes...