I have been wearing vans while riding for a long time, how do the red baron / other freeride shoes compare to vans? they look pretty similar to me. Rubber stickier maybe?

I've not worn Vans but there isn't a shoe that's as sticky as the 510s.

Originally Posted by eurospek

Too bad they are all bulky and goofy looking as hell (same goes for Teva Links). I'm already hitting the chainstays sometimes with my size 12 Vans with run on the narrow side. I can't imagine riding with these joints. But I'm looking to try something new as I go through 2-3 pairs a season of Vans. The Point1 Podium just shred the waffle soles like no other. Grip is good, but the shoe could be stiffer a tad. Plus I'm so used to low cut shoes, well below the ankles like most Vans.

First off, they aren't all goofing looking. Some are, sure, but there's several choices of just black, black/gray, white, white/black. And, with the exception of the mid- and high-tops they look like sneakers. Pretty "normal" stuff.

Plus, if you're worried about how you look riding I think you're doing it wrong. I catch hell every ride I take from my buddies because of all the sh|t I wear. An actual quote from today: "A snot yellow bike, purple shoes, red shorts, and a baby blue jersey. Are you Fing color blind?"

As long as the bike is upright and I'm shredding nothing else matters. YMMV.

Originally Posted by DirtyHank

My UPS Spanked me yesterday!

Save that picture. I you're anything like me they'll be beat to sh|t and unrecognizable inside of a month. But they'll still grip like new. And, amazingly, the pins are very tough. With my HT decoy knockoffs I replaced 2-6 pins EVERY ride. I've had these Spikes for at least 6 months and I've replaced ONE.

You'll love them with the new 510s as long as you give it several weeks to acclimate to flats

You'll love them with the new 510s as long as you give it several weeks to acclimate to flats

Thanks Mike, I know I wouldn't have bought the Spikes had you not influenced my purchase Thanks to you and everyone else I'm looking forward to the transition to flats. Now I'll attempt to get my teenage wheelie technique back in order. No way I was going to attempt a clipped in wheelie and it'll be good to be able to put my foot down while carving if necessary.

agree with hank about "Being clipped in isn't always the greatest." Although I do miss being able to pull up on the peddles on a difficult uphill. But having said that, being able to bail / put a foot down when going fast or jumping off things is essential for me!

So what I am gathering is that the red barons / other freeride shoes have a more durable sole than vans and a stiffer sole. Both seem like good attributes that I am currently missing. Are they very comfortable for walking around in after the ride / if you have to hike or carry your bike?

I rode in Vans for over 30 years from my BMX days to current day mountain biking. Swore by them and never considered wearing another shoe on a bike until I picked up a pair of Five Tens back in September recommended by a friend. I have NEVER been more comfortable on the bike. In dry, wet, or muddy conditions... they never slip. The "Stealth" rubber soles stick so well that I cannot reposition my foot on the pedal without lifting it first, no sliding it around like you can with Vans. Plus, they offer so much more support so you don't feel like your foot is flexing over the pedals.

Very comfortable off the bike as well, they just feel like a standard skate shoe. I still wear Vans but no longer on the bike.

Checkout Backcountry.com, they usually have some killer deals on closeout Five Tens.

Too bad they are all bulky and goofy looking as hell (same goes for Teva Links). I'm already hitting the chainstays sometimes with my size 12 Vans with run on the narrow side. I can't imagine riding with these joints. But I'm looking to try something new as I go through 2-3 pairs a season of Vans. The Point1 Podium just shred the waffle soles like no other. Grip is good, but the shoe could be stiffer a tad. Plus I'm so used to low cut shoes, well below the ankles like most Vans.

The Shimano AM41 is somewhat passable to me in the looks department, I'm might try those this season.

The Teva Links come in all black, and the Pinner's come in more toned down colors and are cheaper, too. I think they look like normal street/ skate shoes, and are a ton less bulky than the stiffer 5.10's.

My Pinner's are nearly as stiff as my Impact 2's, but not quite as sticky. Not that they need to be, I think the 5.10's are a bit over the top, traction-wise, with decent pedals.

PS
For greater spindle strength and fatigue resistance you want the spindle thicker, smoother shaped and made of stronger and more quality material. All of these properties converge, for a good example, on Shimano pedals like MX80, I think.

was inquiring about magnesium pedals with titanium spindles lately - to minimise weight on (already) light bike. that usually tends to also minimalise the security of riding, from what I gathered.

magnesium is not that resistant, you can easily chip it and destroy your pin holes with light crashes and titanium spindles have max weight limitations.

asked HT about their MExxT pedals and they told me 85 kg - which is very low, if you ask me.

they probably use 6al-4v titanium, most commonly used titanium in bike industry, from what I gathered.
you now also have TiSpindle and they make titanium spindles with max weight limitation of 106 kg.
that's only because they use US military Ti-6Q2 titanium - obviously superior to the 6al-4v.
unfortunately - they make only handful of spindle types - too bad...

I was actually thinking - what is the max weight limitation for cro-moly and other material pedal spindles? would love to see how those compare.

I went from some heavy Animal BMX pedals (super great grip though) to lighter and thinner Blackspire pedals.

However, the grip was terrible in anything but sticky soled shoes (I ride in hikers) so had to add some pins. Some allen pan head 4x8mm screws were perfect. Cost me $4 to add 16 pins. Just did the corners for now. Much better traction. May be too much if I go with Five tens, but that's this spring.

Ashas, I was told that I should stay away from pedals that have Ti spindles as they would flex to much.
I have a old set of Crupi BMX pedals I used before clipping in. However they would shred your shins if you missed a pedal. I still have wounds you can see on my shins from them 8 years ago. They are very close to the old Hutch bear trap pedals.

Yes, even Ti6Q2 spindles are not as strong as good steel ones, if all other conditions are equal.

comparing Ti-6Q2 titanium to 6al-4v, there is known minimum of at least 20 kg of rider's maximum weight between the two (don't know the difference in weight between those sipndles themselves, but would be cool to know).

cromoly and steel ones obviously have superiority over titanium is handling riders weight, but would be great to know by how much. are we talking 10-20-30 kg or like tons? just out of curiosity...

Well, 4130 CrMo steel has almost twice the elasticity modulus of 6Al-4V titanium (205 vs 114 GPa). This means it deflects only half as much under the same weight, which is good because smaller deflection slows or even prevents (depending on material quality, applied weight and resultant deflection) fatigue accumulation under cyclical load.

I have not found modulus of elasticity value for Ti6Q2 though, I guess it's somewhere in between those, but closer to that of 6Al-4V.

Strength-wise, numbers can be found that state yield strength of heat treated 4130 steel in about the range of 0.5 to 1.5 of 6Al-4V yield strength. Which can mean that steel axles treated to lower yield strengths can be bent more easily than Ti ones. But it's not the bending scenario that I would worry most about for a heavy rider, it's how well the spindles resist fatigue, because fatigue failures are sudden and result in complete disintegration of the part. As in, you're just hammering along and SNAP! goes your rib against the stem from sudden disappearance of pedal support on your power stroke.

PS
Real mechanical engineers and material scientists are welcome to comment on this.

I, for one, don't ever want to experience that snap.
I ride awful enough to hurt myself even without that

but, truth be spoken, this new gen of thin pedals like HT's AE03, of CB Crampons is actually so light, <400g, even <350g, it's ridiculous.
HT's lightest mag-ti combo pedals is barely over 200 g, incredible.

I don't know how much weight is going to be shed with the next gen, and what kind of materials are going to be used. I just have to say that I like this fast technological pace.
if you look now, in 2013., back to ten years ago - those bikes look now like relics from '70s.

and the jump from steel to aluminium, which was considered foolishness, is nothing compared to jump from aluminium to carbon fiber.
it's just amazing to see that level of advancement available to average Joe.
my bikes are now more expensive then average car - crazy

I have just registered and today is my first post! First of all, I would like to say I'm pleased for taking part in this forum, I think there is a lot of rich information. The second, I write from Málaga (Spain) so I apologize for my English level, it is not very good...

Well, let's talk about bikes... I have a question related to this matter. I admit that I have not read the 42 pages because sincerely there are a lot of words I don't unterstand because of the language, so I will directly explain my doubt: next week, I am going to buy a new bike (Ibis Mojo HD) and I would like to use flat pedals. I have never used this kind of pedals and these days I have been searching on the Internet information and I have choosen three options (not neccesary in this order): Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike pedals.

As you can say, I prefer thin and light pedals and I think that these three options are the best.

According to your experience and knowledge (I'm sure that better than mine), which option is the best for you?

To help you, I'm going to say that I give priority to grip and efficiency, because relative to phisical characteristics, the three options are very similar (thinness and lightness).

I have just registered and today is my first post! First of all, I would like to say I'm pleased for taking part in this forum, I think there is a lot of rich information. The second, I write from Málaga (Spain) so I apologize for my English level, it is not very good...

Well, let's talk about bikes... I have a question related to this matter. I admit that I have not read the 42 pages because sincerely there are a lot of words I don't unterstand because of the language, so I will directly explain my doubt: next week, I am going to buy a new bike (Ibis Mojo HD) and I would like to use flat pedals. I have never used this kind of pedals and these days I have been searching on the Internet information and I have choosen three options (not neccesary in this order): Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike pedals.

As you can say, I prefer thin and light pedals and I think that these three options are the best.

According to your experience and knowledge (I'm sure that better than mine), which option is the best for you?

To help you, I'm going to say that I give priority to grip and efficiency, because relative to phisical characteristics, the three options are very similar (thinness and lightness).

Thank you very much!

Just be sure that you pickup a good pair of shoes along with your new pedal purchase. Five Tens have incredible grip and have never let me down. Paired up with my Deity Decoy pedals... awesome!!

Platform Pedal Shootout, the best flat is...

Just be sure that you pickup a good pair of shoes along with your new pedal purchase. Five Tens have incredible grip and have never let me down. Paired up with my Deity Decoy pedals... awesome!!

Absolutely loved the grip on my decoys, but had twice as many pedal strikes as on my VP Vice, which didn't grip as well. Sold the VP's, kept the Decoys for a rainy day, bought some Crampon Ultimates that I've yet to put on the dirt due to another issue with my bike. I've read much about the grip of the CUs and the thin profile suggests fewer strikes so I'm hoping I have the best of both worlds. Also using 510 Freeriders, which felt clunky and weird when I first tried them on. They're like second skin now, since they've become just a bit more flexible, and they grip like crazy.

Well, let's talk about bikes... I have a question related to this matter. I admit that I have not read the 42 pages because sincerely there are a lot of words I don't unterstand because of the language, so I will directly explain my doubt: next week, I am going to buy a new bike (Ibis Mojo HD) and I would like to use flat pedals. I have never used this kind of pedals and these days I have been searching on the Internet information and I have choosen three options (not neccesary in this order): Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike pedals.

Welcome Lobanovskyy,

I believe the 3 pedals you picked are all good choices. I have Spank Spikes on my trail bike and Crampons on my DH bike so I have had quite a bit of experience with both of those. Although the platform size is very similar on both pedals (about 4"x4") the Crampons just feel like a bigger pedal for some reason. Probably because the pins that come with the Crampons are so much taller your foot DOES NOT move at all once planted.

The Spanks also provide very good grip and have a couple extra pins towards the center of the platform which I like but my foot doesn't feel as planted as the Crampons do, but that is not necessarily a bad thing because I like to ride a lot of slow technical stuff and obstacles that I need to pull my foot off more often. It is also easier to change foot position on the Spanks without having to pick your foot all the way off the pedal. So for this type of riding I prefer the Spanks. The Spanks have also taken quite a beating (see pic on post #946) and are still rock solid with no signs of play or bearing fatigue.

On my DH bike I like my feet as securely planted as possible so I prefer the bigger feel and more solid grip of the Crampons. However, because the Crampons are so thin there is quite a bit of exposed axle which I could see a potential for some squeaky shoes on long climbs, but that is not an issue for me on the DH bike.

I do not have any experience with the Podiums, but I have heard good things so that is all I can comment on those.

Like other have mentioned, a good pair of flat pedal specific shoes is the key to getting the most out of your pedal. I thought I had good grip with my skate shoes but just got a pair of 5.10 Freeriders and now I know what real grip feels like - amazing.

Good luck with your decision - I'm pretty sure you will be happy with any of those pedals you narrowed your search down to.

I have just registered and today is my first post! First of all, I would like to say I'm pleased for taking part in this forum, I think there is a lot of rich information. The second, I write from Málaga (Spain) so I apologize for my English level, it is not very good...

Well, let's talk about bikes... I have a question related to this matter. I admit that I have not read the 42 pages because sincerely there are a lot of words I don't unterstand because of the language, so I will directly explain my doubt: next week, I am going to buy a new bike (Ibis Mojo HD) and I would like to use flat pedals. I have never used this kind of pedals and these days I have been searching on the Internet information and I have choosen three options (not neccesary in this order): Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike pedals.

As you can say, I prefer thin and light pedals and I think that these three options are the best.

According to your experience and knowledge (I'm sure that better than mine), which option is the best for you?

To help you, I'm going to say that I give priority to grip and efficiency, because relative to phisical characteristics, the three options are very similar (thinness and lightness).

Thank you very much!

I think the Canfield Brother Crampon Ultimate would be the pedal for you! Thin and light as well as very durable!

According to the shoes, I have read in forums that 5.10 shoes are the best for flat pedals and I don't doubt that it is true. The problem is I don't like their desings, I find them a bit tacky (it's only my opinion).

The shoes I have choosen are Vans X Colony Wylie. I'm not sure but I think they are pointed to BMX style so I don't know how they "works" with flat pedals in all mountain style...

According to the shoes, I have read in forums that 5.10 shoes are the best for flat pedals and I don't doubt that it is true. The problem is I don't like their desings, I find them a bit tacky (it's only my opinion).

The shoes I have choosen are Vans X Colony Wylie. I'm not sure but I think they are pointed to BMX style so I don't know how they "works" with flat pedals in all mountain style...

I am confused with the information I am reading because it seems that the Crampon Ultimate's main disadvantage is the "squeaky problems", but I don't understand it if we compare these pedals with Spank Spike one. Apparently, both models have the same desing, haven't they? So, if Crampon Ultimate are squeaky, Spank Spike would have the same problem...

Platform Pedal Shootout, the best flat is...

Originally Posted by Lobanovskyy

I am confused with the information I am reading because it seems that the Crampon Ultimate's main disadvantage is the "squeaky problems", but I don't understand it if we compare these pedals with Spank Spike one. Apparently, both models have the same desing, haven't they? So, if Crampon Ultimate are squeaky, Spank Spike would have the same problem...

Concerning to Podium, are there any more opinions?

Thanks!

I think people aren't differentiating between the Crampon Classic and the Crampon Ultimates. The Classic has the exposed spindle and had squeak issues. The Ultimates are a different design and, like the Spikes, don't squeak.

Well, to sum up, I would like to make a survey in order to know wich option is the most popular for you. So, if you don't mind, I would like that you post with one of the three options of pedals that I mentioned before (Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike).

Platform Pedal Shootout, the best flat is...

Originally Posted by Lobanovskyy

Well, to sum up, I would like to make a survey in order to know wich option is the most popular for you. So, if you don't mind, I would like that you post with one of the three options of pedals that I mentioned before (Point One Racing Podium, Canfield Crampon Ultimate or Spank Spike).

Thank you very much for your help and collaboration!

I doubt you'll find your survey to be conclusive. Those 3 are probably the most popular pedals when it comes to expensive, well made, thin flats. In my research on the topic, there's not much that separates the 3, but for price.

That said, I went with the Ultimates. They're the thinnest, they stick like glue, and Canfield is known for great customer service, should something go wrong.

I doubt you'll find your survey to be conclusive. Those 3 are probably the most popular pedals when it comes to expensive, well made, thin flats. In my research on the topic, there's not much that separates the 3, but for price.

That said, I went with the Ultimates. They're the thinnest, they stick like glue, and Canfield is known for great service, should something go wrong.