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Final Fantasy

Figured since XIII-2 is about to come out, why not start a thread. The demo hit yesterday. Anyone play it? Pretty different. Seems like something I might like. Might have to play it again though to really get an idea of what I'm getting myself into. Have yet to finish XIII, but I have a pretty good idea of what happened.

Yeah. I'm not sure about XIII-2 from the demo... I still love the combat, I loved it in 13, once I was over the 20 hour hump that is the start of the game. While I did not enjoy the characters or the story (there was far more depth to the world, but I had to read endless pages of text to find it...) once it hit that stride on Gran Pulse I was left wondering why it couldn't have all been like that.

I will say 13 was the first FF game I've actually beaten in a long time, I think the last one was 8. So the streamlined approach did work in some respects. If they can marry that to a story I actually care about they will be onto something. From what I've seen from trailers etc I dunno.. it looks like more of the same...

Seems like they refined it ALOT. The animation when switching paradigms would sometimes throw me off, so thankfully they fixed that. It's pretty different. Iffy about the story though. But I'm hearing good things about it. So I'm optimistic. Some people are going as far as to say they like it more than XIII. And judging from the trailers, is that the Versus XIII world? Maybe it was Gran Pulse before the Pulse that we knew it in XIII?

I also feel I'm in the minority, but XII's combat system is probably my favorite RPG combat system ever in a game.

Completely agree. XII is the absolute best JRPG of the past decade or so. I love everything about that game so much.

As for similarities, tricky one. IIRC Rogue Galaxy has a mechanic that is somewhat similar to the License Board. The Digital Devil Saga games use a very Sphere Grid-esque progression system.

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I enjoyed XIII a fair bit initially, but got kind of burned out toward the end and never finished it. I got stuck on Barthandelus II and ragequit when he used Doom after a 30 minute fight that I was totally going to win GRAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Didn't have any motivation to continue after that. Traded the game in not long after and haven't looked back since. I might pick it back up with XIII-2 when the latter goes down in price a bit.

XII is probably my least favorite. Gameplay was great. The story and lack thereof is what ruined it for me. And aside from Balthier, the characters were very dull. With XIII, I think they tried real hard to make sure that the story progressed
more often than XII. XII was "run through these places, then these places, and a brief and vague cutscene".

If that's the case then they just went overboard trying to compensate for what XII lacked. XIII was nothing but long cutscenes and story. That is why, ultimately, XII is my favorite. It's the most fun I've ever had playing an RPG. The simple joy of seeing the words "Level Up!" in gold spinning around my characters' heads was enough to goad me into hours of EXP grinding, which was way easier and more fun with the gambit system. And the idea of selling loot gained from monsters to get money was better than monsters randomly dropping Gil. Also, the world was really immersive, and you could pretty much walk everywhere because it was all linked together, except for that island city in the sky.

I was so disappointed by XIII that for the first time ever, I'm not at all excited for a new Final Fantasy game. It tarnished the brand (not to mention XIV, which I've heard was far worse). I'll wait a while and read what others think about XIII-2 before I try it out.

To be fair, I wouldn't count their MMO's. They made two and failed both times. Even moreso with XIV. How they ended up to the point of giving them numerals is beyond me. But with XII, I guess I need a story to help keep me going, which was almost nonexistent. I have no problems grinding when I have to. But, give me something to work towards. XIII, as faulty as it was, managed to fill that void that XII left for me. And still to this very day, I've yet to finish it.

But, give me something to work towards. XIII, as faulty as it was, managed to fill that void that XII left for me.

I agree with this, I think at the very least 13's pace, despite being stupidly linear for the first 2/3s of the game, kept me going, hence why above, I mentioned its the first one I've finished for years. 12 was such a grind I just gave up as I forgot what I was doing and just got bored.

I do disagree that FFXI was a failure, its still one of the biggest mmo's in Japan and has been active for years, not WoW huge, but big enough to sustain itself and still be worth the investment, if an mmo is your thing of course. I tried it and hated it, like I hate every other mmo I've played (with the exception of Planetside..) , not for me I guess..

No argument that XIV is a massive failure though. I hope the relaunch later this year does something magical, as at the very least it looked pretty.

13's pace, despite being stupidly linear for the first 2/3s of the game

Wait... It stops being linear for 1/3 of the game??? I might have to take it up again just to see this, because I got pretty damn sick of the cutscene>running>battle>repeat pattern that played over and over again by the time I got to Pulse.

I don't know, the part of 13 I've played so far has been incredibly linear. Everything more or less seems to just straight forward. Also, the lack of people in the game really throws me off. It usually goes that you wander about forever and suddenly there's a group of 5 people all clumped together to show you that there's somewhat of a population there. Could also only be for the fact that I haven't progressed much in the game.

As for XIII-2, I'm actually more looking forward to Versus, that game looks proper badass and seems to have more depth to it than 13 did. I'll probably end up buying XIII-2 anyway just for the fuck of it.

Wait... It stops being linear for 1/3 of the game??? I might have to take it up again just to see this, because I got pretty damn sick of the cutscene>running>battle>repeat pattern that played over and over again by the time I got to Pulse.

Once you run about Pulse for a bit it just goes *bam.. explore!* For a while anyway. It is where all the missions are, lots of monsters to hunt (actually thats what most of the missions are anyway), secrets to find, hidden items etc etc.. Gives you a chance to grow your characters, level up and explore the combat system... Then you reach the end and you are thrown back down corridors. You can return once you beat the game though. In that section you learn a lot more about the world just by being there, rather than having everything hidden away in a readme file. I was just left thinking "why couldn't it all be like this?"

I'm about three quarters of the way through XIII-2 and this game, apart from some frame rate issues, is better than any FF game after IX, by a long chalk. That and Caius is a great antagonist, certainly more layered than anything else in the last decade of FF games... even voiced by Liam O'Brien who is like anime voice-over royalty. I went as far recently as to say this is the time travelling JRPG I've been waiting for since Chrono Trigger and while it's nowhere near the masterpiece that game is it's a sure step in the right direction. Really, really like it a lot.

Once you run about Pulse for a bit it just goes *bam.. explore!* For a while anyway. It is where all the missions are, lots of monsters to hunt (actually thats what most of the missions are anyway), secrets to find, hidden items etc etc.. Gives you a chance to grow your characters, level up and explore the combat system... Then you reach the end and you are thrown back down corridors. You can return once you beat the game though. In that section you learn a lot more about the world just by being there, rather than having everything hidden away in a readme file. I was just left thinking "why couldn't it all be like this?"

This (and the fact that XIII-2 is supposed to fix what went wrong with XIII) makes me a little more willing to give it a try. I'd heard that the game let you go back, which intrigued me considering the linearity of the game as a whole. I just don't understand how Squeenix could've got it so wrong...

This (and the fact that XIII-2 is supposed to fix what went wrong with XIII) makes me a little more willing to give it a try. I'd heard that the game let you go back, which intrigued me considering the linearity of the game as a whole. I just don't understand how Squeenix could've got it so wrong...

Yeah it does open up at that point but to be frank the side-quests are so fucking hard there's no point exploring Grand Pulse until you've finished the main story, in fact you can't even reach your maximum role levels until after you've finished the story because the last levels of the Crystarium leveling system are locked - this is the sort of stuff that annoyed me about XIII, the upgrade system and shops were also pretty useless throughout the entire story mode, I finished the game without visiting the shop even once.

Shops were near useless for me. I used them from time to time though. Usually to upgrade my weapons/accessories. I'm liking XIII-2 though. Story's a little out there, but I'm having fun. I'm stuck st the moment, too. Supposed to be collecting graviton cores, but I'm having a hassle getting to where I'm supposed to be going... :/

So I am guessing the consensus is that XIII-2 is much better in a lot of ways from XIII? I have read many articles, but I want to get a better impression from a gamers point of view.

In the general sense, it's a better RPG, but the presentation is poorer and the plot is COMPLETE nonsense. Also, they seem so eager to open up the linearity in the wrong ways... Sure, you can go anywhere you want, but the compass still points in an obvious direction, and when it doesn't you can get seriously lost. I'm honestly stuck at a point where I just have no idea what the fuck I'm supposed to do, and I've never really fallen into that spot in a FF game before. I've also never felt this lost in an open world RPG like The Elder Scrolls. I just don't get what they want me to do.

Personally, I think that if this is true, it just confirms that we're getting closer and closer to FF7 relaunching/being remade. The fans want it. The developers know how much the fans want it, AND how much money they could make. If they did it right, they could be sitting on a fortune. Not a small one, or a sizable one, but a HUGE fortune. I can see all the reasons why they wouldn't do it, or why it could be a bad idea, but they could still pull it off if they were extremely careful about it.

I don't necessarily jump at any rumor about FF7 being remade, but there's something in the back of my mind that just keeps saying it's coming sooner or later. It would be a pretty pleasant surprise if they'd secretly been working on it for a number of years to get it right, down to the last detail. I'm not gonna hold my breath, though.

At this point, after failing so spectacularly with both the Final Fantasy XIII saga (the dreadfully boring XIII, its nonsensical sequel, and the still missing-in-action Versus XIII) and the XIV MMO which irreparably damaged the brand, the only way Square Enix can redeem themselves is to go back and remake VII. If they do that, they'll get all their lapdogs back.

I say this, not unfairly or as a troll, but with tears of deepest regret. XIII broke my heart, and they've been going downhill ever since. But I have hope that it's not too late.

FFXIII's a mixed bag for people. I enjoyed it. Some didn't. I can understand why people don't like it, but it doesn't bother me. FFXII was the major letdown for me. And FFXIV was/is a gigantic mess. It's really a no-brainer to remake FFVII, but for some reason they don't want the profits... And has there been any word at all lately about Versus? Too much silence can be a horrible thing. Look at metal gear rising...

I started with FF1 on the NES, and while FFVII was a significant milestone, it hasn't stuck with me the way FFIV and FFVI did. I feel like the SNES was the golden era for Square RPGs -- usually a solid balance between gameplay and story. With FFVII and on they got increasingly obsessed with the story and making elaborate cutscenes, to the point where FFXIII could be considered an interactive movie.

Also, I played both MMOs (XI and XIV), and while they totally fucked up XIV at launch, they have made great strides to make it better and continue to do so. I'm actually looking forward to FFXIV 2.0.

That's what I've been hearing about XIV. But I could only imagine it being too little, too late at this point. If only they had actually finished the game before releasing it, it might've been alright. I played XI as well. Found it real boring. Took forever to get around.

I liked 13 for what little of it I played. I just keep putting it off because I know it's going to be a huuuge undertaking to play through it the way I play (tons of training early on and as maaany side-quests as I can manage), and I won't even touch 13-2 until after I finish that. I'm actually a pretty bare Final Fantasy fan...I love the hell out of 7, 8, and 9, played a good chunk of 10, hated 10-2, skipped 11 and 12...Really, like I said, the games are generally so huge, it's hard to find time to commit to playing all the ones I haven't yet, especially when I keep hearing so many negative things about every other new release.

Bottom line: I want it to happen, I think it could happen, but they really can't afford to take any risks with changing it too much. Trying too hard to modernize it will only damage it, and that's what makes it such a gamble. Do you appeal to the old school and keep the updates minimal, or try to completely change it for the newer generation and risk completely botching the thing? Just gotta find that perfect middle-ground. I don't want the gameplay to be too much like the newer FF styles, because it was fine the way it was. It doesn't need to be changed. Sure, it's a bit dated, but it's not exactly clunky or anything. I've played modern games that handle worse than a lot of PS1 games out there. But who knows, maybe they could work some magic.

It has to be a really daunting task for them, because SO much would ride on them remaking it perfectly, down to the last detail. The criticism would be huge, and the standard that fans would have would be unbelievably high. It'd be intimidating, but not impossible. They'd just have to take their time and tread veeery, very carefully.

Honestly, only thing I'd be worried about is whether or they would change the battle system. Should they change it? Leave it as is. Everything else, I'd just recreate without really straying away from the original. Maybe add a couple new things, expand the story some (maybe?). Keep the core elements (materia, etc).

They've been avoiding open worlds since FFX though. So how would they implement side quests (chocobo breeding, knights of the round)? Versus is supposedly to have an airship with actual exploration, so maybe it's possible. I would be difficult, but it's also very possible and highly profitable regardless it sucks or not.

Exactly. They could make a few necessary changes to the look. Battle system was fine. Open world was fine, and considering it would be a remake, it would make sense if they left the open world navigation the way it was. If they tried that in a brand new game, it wouldn't work. I can only imagine that having an open world FF7 would be fucking....MASSIVE...and absolutely beautiful. At least, it could be.