tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post5744005614914685089..comments2015-03-03T11:57:53.323-05:00Comments on Shrink Rap: Please ComplainDinahnoreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-79337061736967885432014-12-05T14:46:02.042-05:002014-12-05T14:46:02.042-05:00Does anyone honestly think that complaining to a h...Does anyone honestly think that complaining to a hospital will stop human rights abuses that start well before the hospital receives the patient and consists of not only the staff lying about the patient in order to get insurance reimbursement for a bogus IC and will this alleviate the human rights abuses of the process that states once accused of mental illness all protections procedurally afforded accused criminala are removed? Of course not. Won&#39;t remove the despicable fraud committed by Psychiatrists and hospital staff on a routine basis. Whistleblower laws don&#39;t accomplish this either. There&#39;s too much $$$ to provide an incentive to shine sunlight--and whilst those in the national news are crying for video on police officers, what we need is video on mental wards and inside mental hospitals because the entire thing operates in complete secrecy and as a result, folks don&#39;t realize what goes on. And shrinks will not wish to allow such sunshine to be shone. Ever. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-14954981152977330042012-02-06T12:39:51.234-05:002012-02-06T12:39:51.234-05:00Ron Linderman, that&#39;s what I&#39;m talking abo...Ron Linderman, that&#39;s what I&#39;m talking about! You have to understand the system. I can not complain on the behalf of others. I just knew to keep my mouth shut, tell my lawyer I do not want to go to court (they don&#39;t need me shuffling on Haldol) then call every person I know to call the hospital and say &quot;we will fight if this continues&quot; .... Understanding Complaint Filing is fine. But understanding how to save your skin? I&#39;ll take the latter infoThe Last Psychotichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01943618761427535507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-31414477720548768832012-02-06T12:22:23.074-05:002012-02-06T12:22:23.074-05:00I was voluntary, I did the same thing. So they sai...I was voluntary, I did the same thing. So they said they would commit me. Then I noticed all the patients were getting Haldol shots before court. One person won his commitment hearing, so the appealed it, and increased his Haldol. <br /> <br />IN the state system you&#39;ll have to be a bit more savvy than &quot;i&#39;m leaving&quot;. &quot;I&#39;m volentary&quot; I&#39;m sure you already know this, but I&#39;m speaking for those of us who enter a hospital in Arivan withdrawal, And finally realize what all the fuss is about :)The Last Psychotichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01943618761427535507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-75889228782078346392011-06-24T11:23:08.725-04:002011-06-24T11:23:08.725-04:00I&#39;m afraid the ACLU is not the friend of the i...I&#39;m afraid the ACLU is not the friend of the incarcerated mental patient. Their defense of liberty is selective historically and this is egregiously so with respect to persons in psyche hospitals. This has been well documented by Szasz and others.rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-63420978967194421722011-06-22T23:15:33.962-04:002011-06-22T23:15:33.962-04:00My experiences were the same as Leslie&#39;s. One ...My experiences were the same as Leslie&#39;s. One doc told me he always puts holds on bipolar patients who are inpatient for any reason, because they often sign out AMA otherwise. He laughed at me when I told him I was distressed being held captive, when I had come in voluntarily and had not attempted to leave.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-49444272970610459282011-06-22T22:18:00.070-04:002011-06-22T22:18:00.070-04:00Moviedoc, that&#39;s a good question not sure if t...Moviedoc, that&#39;s a good question not sure if the ACLU gets involved in situations like that. Advocacy Inc in Texas (Now called Disability Rights) is a great organization, and I have received assistance from them in the past. They have attorneys who are passionate about patient rights, and they get results. One of their priorities is assisting patients in their right to refuse medication and unwanted medical treatment. They are non profit, and I can&#39;t say enough good things about them. <br /><br />People may not have listened to my voice, but they listened to Advocacy Inc&#39;s. I hope patients in others states have access to an organization like that.<br /><br />LeslieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-1264774296992180872011-06-22T21:07:03.360-04:002011-06-22T21:07:03.360-04:00Leslie, I&#39;m sure many psych hospital staff wil...Leslie, I&#39;m sure many psych hospital staff will use delaying tactics, but what happened to you sounds like it went too far. I wonder whether the ACLU might help in such situations.moviedochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03617061594621924756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-38796067555361676662011-06-22T20:18:58.070-04:002011-06-22T20:18:58.070-04:00&quot;If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &...&quot;If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &quot;I&#39;m leaving. I don&#39;t have to sign your stupid AMA form, and you have no authority to force me to sign it before allowing me to leave. Unlock the door or I&#39;ll have you charged with kidnapping. Or something.&quot;<br /><br />If only that would work. I told the nurse I want to leave now (keep in mind I signed in &quot;voluntarily&quot; under threat that if I didn&#39;t they would sign me in) and the nurse&#39;s response was, &quot;You&#39;re not going anywhere.&quot; Needless to say, I got very upset which is actually a very sane and rational reaction to a nurse being a jerk. I soon learned voluntary patients are competent to say yes to treatment but not competent to say no to treatment. Weird. <br /><br />Eventually the nurse got around to notifying the physician. The psychiatrist on call had never even met me, not once. She said I needed to wait until the next day and she would see me and we could talk then. I relayed to the nurse who was on the phone with the doctor that &quot;I am not a threat to myself or others and this doctor cannot say I&#39;m a danger if she&#39;s never even met me. And I want to leave now or call an attorney I know.&quot; At that point the doctor finally relented and &quot;allowed&quot; me to be discharged AMA. <br /><br />But, the nurse wasn&#39;t done with me yet. She would not unlock the door until I signed whatever documents she put in front of me. I tried Moviedoc&#39;s suggestion where I said I wouldn&#39;t sign anything just let me out now, but she refused and she had the keys. So, I just wrote on all the forms, &quot;I am signing this form because Nurse so and so told me that my leaving is contigent upon my signing this form. I do not agree with what I&#39;m signing.&quot; I did eventually leave AMA but they gave me absolute hell about it, and they dragged it out for hours. <br /><br />Voluntary is far from voluntary if you ask to leave. If you think that you can request to leave and people will begin calmly preparing the discharge paperwork, think again.<br /><br />LeslieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-16360613377091726222011-06-22T17:53:33.692-04:002011-06-22T17:53:33.692-04:00&quot;If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &...&quot;If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &quot;I&#39;m leaving. I don&#39;t have to sign your stupid AMA form, and you have no authority to force me to sign it before allowing me to leave. Unlock the door or I&#39;ll have you charged with kidnapping. Or something.&quot;<br /><br />Hmm, wouldn&#39;t that cause someone to be hauled to the seclusion room and given a shot of vitamin &quot;H&quot;?<br /><br />That would be like telling a policemen off even when you are in the right which people advise is not a good idea.<br /><br />Thankfully, I have never been in this situation but your advice doesn&#39;t seem wise. It would be great to hear comments from people who sadly have had first hand experience with this.<br /><br />AAAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-5782777785191427252011-06-22T14:40:38.903-04:002011-06-22T14:40:38.903-04:00Rob,
If the potential suicidee were your own chil...Rob,<br /><br />If the potential suicidee were your own child, would your opinions on the matter be any different, or would you hold to your &quot;leave them alone&quot; view?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-36282281359266123542011-06-22T13:02:17.387-04:002011-06-22T13:02:17.387-04:00Jesse:
http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/th...Jesse:<br /><br />http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/the-therapeutic-state/the-shame-of-medicine-is-suicide-legal/<br /><br />money quote: <br /><br />&quot;If suicide be deemed a problem, it is a moral and political problem, not a disease in need of diagnosis, prevention, punishment, or treatment. Managing suicide as if it were a medical problem will succeed only in debasing medicine and corrupting the law. Pretending to be the pride of medicine, psychiatry is its shame.&quot;rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-55243469860268934152011-06-22T12:55:31.457-04:002011-06-22T12:55:31.457-04:00Moviedoc, that is exactly what I thought years ago...Moviedoc, that is exactly what I thought years ago, that it would be kidnapping (or some such serious thing) to hold anyone against his will, unless that person was assessed to be a danger to himself or others.<br /><br />Rob, we don&#39;t have crystal balls but it is our duty to assess it. &quot;Imminent&quot; is a tough standard. Seems like the minimum it should be. You are arguing (many times) that even if the staff saw the patient throwing a rope over a door and making a noose, they should let him do as he wishes. Free will. I don&#39;t understand at all why you would argue such a thing.jessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11077223398907532291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-83962821169435280382011-06-22T12:29:36.082-04:002011-06-22T12:29:36.082-04:00Now That&#39;s what I&#39;m talkin&#39; about!
wv...Now <i>That&#39;s</i> what I&#39;m talkin&#39; about!<br /><br />wv = inessess. A female inessrob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-51921380295107223822011-06-22T12:20:17.407-04:002011-06-22T12:20:17.407-04:00If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &quot;I...If I were a voluntary patient I would say, &quot;I&#39;m leaving. I don&#39;t have to sign your stupid AMA form, and you have no authority to force me to sign it before allowing me to leave. Unlock the door or I&#39;ll have you charged with kidnapping. Or something.&quot;moviedochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03617061594621924756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-46186180868811115442011-06-22T12:17:28.119-04:002011-06-22T12:17:28.119-04:00...even if they sign out AMA?
wv = foxisti. Not ......even if they sign out AMA?<br /><br />wv = foxisti. Not gonna define it. nicht fur der kinder!rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-63084870034412303862011-06-22T12:12:23.119-04:002011-06-22T12:12:23.119-04:00Rob, as I&#39;m sure you know the plaintiff in a w...Rob, as I&#39;m sure you know the plaintiff in a wrongful death case will allow that your crystal ball doesn&#39;t work, but the expert will say you have a duty to assess risk and act accordingly. (Sorry if I&#39;m getting you started on malpractice.)<br /><br />So Jess, the reason psych patients can&#39;t come an go at will, even when voluntary, is the hospital will be held liable for the outcome.moviedochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03617061594621924756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-73952258709284240082011-06-22T11:59:42.590-04:002011-06-22T11:59:42.590-04:00Jesse,
And as I&#39;ve argued further, the abilit...Jesse,<br /><br />And as I&#39;ve argued further, the ability to determine &quot;imminent danger&quot; is a skill available only to clarivoyants. As it is a skill unavailable to us mortals, we ought not to pretend we have it. Neither should we allow the State to insist that we have it. Rather, we should tell the State boldly and clearly that we <i>cannot</i> predict the future and we will refuse to do so.rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-88384304848651844492011-06-22T11:49:15.484-04:002011-06-22T11:49:15.484-04:00Rob has regularly raised this point so could someo...Rob has regularly raised this point so could someone with inpatient knowledge like Roy address it: &quot;giving psyche-ward inmates the same right as medical bed patients: to leave the hospital when they want to.&quot;<br /><br />I recall from my hospital days (a long time ago) that prospective inpatients were asked to sign a &quot;72-hour notice,&quot; essentially agreeing to give that much notice if they wished to leave. This was for voluntary patients. My understanding of it was that it was not binding - if they wanted to leave they could be retained for that length of time only if they were assessed to be an imminent danger to themselves or others. So for those patients who were not an imminent danger, if they wished to leave before 72 hours they were breaking that agreement but they could not be held.<br /><br />Did I understand that correctly? What would be the reason for not allowing a voluntary patient to leave whenever he wants?jessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11077223398907532291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-9939449461394399692011-06-22T10:38:12.839-04:002011-06-22T10:38:12.839-04:00Rockin&#39; good news, moviedoc. It&#39;s difficu...Rockin&#39; good news, moviedoc. It&#39;s difficult to believe thisht goes on in the 21st century. Next mountain to climb; giving psyche-ward inmates the same right as medical bed patients: to leave the hospital when they want to.<br /><br />wv = verboo. One of the lesser-known parts of speechoorob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-67582900239237172112011-06-22T10:37:00.857-04:002011-06-22T10:37:00.857-04:00Moviedoc:
Thank you, I rest my case.Moviedoc:<br />Thank you, I rest my case.Dinahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09227988351623862689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-68168356422277637402011-06-22T10:17:42.550-04:002011-06-22T10:17:42.550-04:00Here&#39;s some evidence those complaints can have...Here&#39;s some evidence those complaints can have some impact: http://ht.ly/5nL4jmoviedochttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03617061594621924756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-48062255355848964452011-06-22T10:10:06.643-04:002011-06-22T10:10:06.643-04:00sorry... Dr. McClure&#39;s case settled.
word ver...sorry... Dr. McClure&#39;s case settled.<br /><br />word verification &quot;hectivar&quot;, a vaccine from Aventis seeking approval from the FDA, covering Diphtheria, Tetanus, Pertusis, Hib, pneumococcus, Hep B, and Varicellarob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-77356231382117228592011-06-22T10:05:03.283-04:002011-06-22T10:05:03.283-04:00Troubling that the author threw all these docs und...Troubling that the author threw all these docs under the bus, including the gentleman who&#39;s only &quot;offense&quot; was being sued for malpractice (no indication of outcome in that case).<br /><br />He means, I think, to impugn the Florida DJJ, particularly with regard to their alleged practice of inappropriate or involuntary medication of children. He over-reached.rob lindemanhttp://natickpediatrics.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-52385939749576360252011-06-22T09:22:09.727-04:002011-06-22T09:22:09.727-04:00Read the article that is cited by Anon above. Afte...Read the article that is cited by Anon above. After beginning with innuendo and imprecision, the reporter finally describes the case at hand. The doctor mentioned, who is on probation for what he had done in dishonest billing (no small thing), was assigned to a jail by the company that employs him as a temporary replacement for a doctor who was away.jessehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11077223398907532291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-26666124.post-31053598832192040222011-06-22T07:26:08.726-04:002011-06-22T07:26:08.726-04:00Sunny CA: I will buy your book.
The last anon pos...Sunny CA: I will buy your book.<br /><br />The last anon post is a prime example of a &quot;hater&quot;...I put up the Please Complain post out of respect for our readers who&#39;ve had awful experiences, and to suggest that one do something more powerful --towards effecting change, preventing it from happening again, gaining closure, helping others to not go through this, and to help improve a clearly troubled system which needs guidance in it&#39;s evolution--I never promised it would work, I just know how systems work and that times have changed towards requiring that they at least acknowledge complaints, and that repeated complaints may nudge an otherwise stalled situation. If nothing else, the act of doing something (perhaps even just writing about it in the comment of Shrink Rap), empowers the victim, which I believe is a good thing. I&#39;d like to empower them more. In the case where &quot;everyone knows&quot; a staff member is abusive, even the staff will be happy to have documented complaints about someone (though they may not know).<br /><br />To come in with &quot;Tragic how doctors (it appears especially Psychiatrist) will tell people to file a complaints, go through the proper channels, &amp; you&#39;ll get action.. blah blah blah..&quot; implies that it&#39;s hopeless, and that it&#39;s wrong of psychiatrists to encourage anyone to complain. Would it be better if psychiatrist said &quot;just take it.&quot;??? That&#39;s not me, you need another blog. You don&#39;t like the system, work towards changing it, but telling people it&#39;s hopeless does no one any good.Dinahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09227988351623862689noreply@blogger.com