Angola vs Australia: 2014 World Cup

I don't advocate us dropping the Angola game nor do I think the team will contemplate doing this BUT our best chance of finishing 3rd will be if we lose the game. We cannot now top the group and cannot fall bellow third.

If we lose Lithuania will then have maximum incentive to win against Slovenia because ANY win will guarantee them topping the group.

A win for the Boomers against Angola needs a Lithuania win by 5-13 for us to get third.

With a Lithuania loss the result against Angola does not matter. We will be second.

Hey. Why not. The result of the next game is sort of irrelevant as I said. Give the guys who play less minutes plenty of burn as well as a chance to see what they can do. Rest the guys who have been playing big minutes and give the Boomers a better chance of reaching the medal round. Can't think of a downside really.

"FWIW I don't advocate throwing a game, but with us already qualified for the Round of 16 I wouldn't have a problem with the coaches resting key players so they are fit and firing when it matters on Saturday or Sunday.

It's also a great chance to get some more run into the legs of the guys I mentioned above.

Now if that happens to mean we lose the game to Angola, who will be playing for their lives (and were great today against Slovenia) then so be it, it might just turn out for the best."

I was really pleased to see Bairstow getting o-boards and starting to get some confidence against Mexico. He will be important to us if we are to go deep and this game would help him get a bit more touch which is missing at the moment.

Isn't it great to be playing the last game of pool play in a World Cup with essentially no pressure as we don't have to win the game to survive? Lemanis needs to be creative and get some guys on the floor. Why not play Exum and Goulding big minutes using a fast running style of play? It is not as if our current offensive style is really any good or is going to improve. We have just had good enough players to score despite the abscence of any system. The guys have occasionally run some good 2 man plays.

It's not like we have smashed everyone. That starting unit still needs all the time together they can get. Use this game as a scrimmage for the main guys to keep that rhythm that disappeared at times in the Mexico game.

I agree would like to see Goulding get major mins and give him the green light to see what he can do. hopefully see Jawai get plenty of mins and Bairstow as well. Delly looked spent in the last game so i think his mins should go to Gibson who has been solid so far.

Would like to see these guys get major mins.JawaiBaistowMotumGouldingGibson

1. As pwned said: these starters need all the minutes together they can get. They look pretty average when it comes to playing off each other and being comfortable with each guys' games and where they like to get the ball. Lots of these players aren't stars in their club duties so they need as much big minute experience as they can get as well.

or:

2. These guys have been playing back-to-back after back-to-back in this compressed group stage.

Delly looks buggered out there. Lord knows Jawai needs the exercise. Dante needs to get more comfortable. Bubbles needs minutes because he's just itching to hurl up some shots for the love of God. Guys like Bairstow and Motum need to find their groove.

Not only does it give our key guys the rest they need, but it might just be a confidence / rhythm boost for the fringe guys who might then parlay that into production in important games later on in the tournament.

Just like what Popovich does with the Spurs: he rests his key guys plenty, but that means more minutes and experience against top teams for his role players, who then show up come playoff time in key minutes.

I agree Bear, the Boomers should be playing to win, I would just like to see the players who have not been getting mins getting an opportunity to impress and give Delly Baynes, ingles Broekhoff and Andersen a chance to rest.

Australian's always feel their tactics must be beyond reproach yet almost every Euro team would drop a game in the interest of group standings.

I wouldn't see it so much as 'dropping a game' as, giving our fringe guys a free scrimmage and Goulding license to chuck it up.. and giving David Anderson the ball A LOT.

Then again, I think we are stuck on second unless Lithuania wins anyway. If they win, 3 way tie.. points decision we will come third, if they lose and we lose.. the tie will just be Aus and Lith, we will come second on head to head. Winning this game or losing will not get us third, its up to what Lithuania do I believe.

Isn't it now out of our hands? Lithuania can decide our fate with their Slovenia game. If they choose to throw it (not hard against a better opponent), we move to second and then face the US in two game's time.

I think we'll face Turkey or the DR, then the USA if we can win that.

Or am I missing something?

Might as well rest players against Angola, but the result itself shouldn't matter.

"We need to stop worrying about crossover opponents such as the USA when Spain, Brazil, Greece, Argentina will all be just as tough to beat."

We wouldn't crossover against any of those teams until a medal game.

It's not really about not trying to win, it's about making sure any players who need rest don't play in a dead rubber so they're banged up for the real stuf, and that guys who need a run get court time.

"It's not really about not trying to win, it's about making sure any players who need rest don't play in a dead rubber so they're banged up for the real stuf, and that guys who need a run get court time."

In almost every sport (except maybe curling unless of course the broom guy has a blister) key players would be rested in a *dead rubber.

*Dead meaning that your position cannot be changed by the result.

Forget the fact that a loss could actually improve our chances of progressing deeper into the pointy end of this championship and just focus on the dead rubber issue. What if Delly,Ingles or Baines were injured in this game. FFS Lemanis would be strung up for playing them in a game that meant zero.

Now factor in that a loss would actually improve our chances of a medal and the question of what to do in the next game should not even need to be asked.

No tanking** required just correct roster management.

** Well none required unless we are still winning deep into the last quarter because Bubbles and Dante are having their way with Angola.

Definitely time to get key players some rest. I think Delly, Ingles and Baynes should sit this one out. I'd like to see Exum start and play big mins. With a few more reps and no pressure he might gain some rhythm and confidence. Bubbles should also start and get the green light.

Unless Lemanis thinks Andersen needs a rest, I would give him a chance to get his shot going. Despite some struggles at times, his shooting is a weapon that we need.

Probably split the mins at SF between Broekhoff , Newley and a little Goulding. Give Nate as many mins as he can handle and start Motum at PF as IMO he is the most likely successor to Andersen as our stretch 4.

I think it's important that our players play to win when they are on the floor, but this is one where I am hoping for a glorious loss, with guys like Dante, Bubbles and Motum playing well but just falling short at the end.

When it comes down to it I would prefer to beat Angola and face the USA, than to drop to second gear in order to maybe, maybe, give ourselves a chance of avoiding second spot in our group. When all is said and done it seems a little corrupt, unethical to not try to get a result, it has the distant whiff of game fixing....I don't care if all the cool kids are doing it. I want to beat Angola, I would like to win every game we enter with the best team we can put on the court, and if that costs us a medal, then so be it.

So to the two guys above. You don't think it is sound roster management to rest tired players in a dead rubber or to give a few players who have worked their butts off to get to this level a chance to see some court time and show what they have got. That is not throwing a game or deliberately losing it is just trying to use the situation to give you the best possible chance in the next game.

I, for that matter none of us, will ever be privvy to what goes on with the team behind closed doors. But I would expect the coaching group to come up with the best game plan designed for us to win against Angola. If that meant reducing starters minutes because the last month has worn them, and their effectiveness, down, then yes by all means let some of the bench get on (we're a deep team). But if it ever came out that the coach directed the team to purposefully attempt to not win the game, then I would be disappointed. My problem is that by going to the bench primarily (if that is what happens) it sends a message to the players that the result isn't important....I just hope the team plays with pride and attempts to win the game to the best of their ability.

I would never lay down nor ever be proud as an Aussie to say I played on a team that lost to Angola. Stuff the bench. Most when it comes to the crunch wont see court time when its all said and done.In fact most don't even deserve court time.Go read the ratings topic. Anderson D. Improve? Crap.Bairstow? Go away. Goulding? Maybe play D.The list goes on. If the top few cant handle the heat and need to be rested then that's a sorry situation. It means that the selection on the bench is poor.

Imagine this hypothetical scenario: The Boomers lose to Angola and Lithuania beat Slovenia. We finish 3rd in pool D, win a couple of games against whoever it turns out to be, through to the semi final. Then get spanked by the USA and end up playing off for 3rd/4th.

This would equal (or better) our best ever finish...and IF that happened, I don't think anyone here would talk about it as undeserved or tainted because we didn't try our best against Angola in a group match.

People might be conflicted in the short term but I think but if the payoff happens they'll find a way to look past it.

Damn, looks like we're going to win and give Lithuania no incentive to try and beat Slovenia. Really enjoying the play of Exum and Goulding in this one. Coach has given them a decent run and they are rising to the occasion. Only really Bairstow and Andersen struggling on the team. Everyone else looking great!

I've never been so ashamed and angry at an Australian team. They seriously just aren't trying on defence. This is tantamount to game fixing. This is appalling, someone has to play the US for god's sake. If we end up throwing this game, which is what it looks like, I seriously hope we get knocked out in the round of sixteen....it's pathetic.

Honestly, I think if the "tiebreaker" system was a more simple points for/against, calculated from ALL group games (not just between the teams that were tied) there would be an incentive to win every game by as much as possible and this kind of farce mightn't happen.

This is looking like pretty blatant tanking to me. i would have rathered them not play any of the vets at the start of the game and just played honest with the young guys. Now they had too big a lead and had to result to this nonsense, which is pretty unsportsmanlike, even if it is somewhat a product of the tournament rules...

If you are against this tanking, don't you realise the aim is to get the highest position in the tournament, not just win all games (including dead rubber games)? This is a TOURNAMENT. That is why we are resting our starters so much before the knockout round.

This is the most embarrassed I've ever been with a Boomers team. This is now match fixing....this has to be illegal. What if someone on the team put some cash on themselves losing....this is the pits. I hope they get disciplined by FIBA, better still I hope we lose in the round of 16........this is not the Australian way...

hows that any different than ARL or AFL teams tanking - pull your heads in because I think you will see Lithuanian's tank tonight too - remember we earn't the right to tank by winning 3 games in a row - something we haven't done for 30+ years - wake up to yourselves - f**kin idiots

Because there is a difference between playing the kids and blatantly throwing the game by intentionally conceding points, throwing bad passes on purpose, etc.

They should have just played guys out of position, played exum all game long, gone super small ball etc.

That way they lose but guys still get experience, you get to experiment with different, weird lineups, you get to see what small ball looks like (something lemanis hasnt used and will need to roll out later on).

So it was a wasted learning opportunity as much as it was a bit soul crushing.

And i felt sorry for the Angolans as well. Watching them celebrate that victory thinking they actually won a fair game left me feeling a bit hollow inside...

But now we have 3rd. You'd wanna hope you advance through this next stage now or you'll look pretty stupid.

If you're upset about this result. Try to remember: It's not a poor reflection on the quality of the team, in fact it's the opposite. Australia's excellent play earlier in the tournament allowed them the luxury of losing this game with no bad consequences. Other teams haven't played as well in the first few rounds and are fighting for their lives but we had a 'friendly' training run and are still in a great position looking forward.This was a smart move.

I love Australian Basketball but that was about as bad as it gets on virtually every level...ethically, morally, ....they threw the game. They purposefully tried to lose....I've honestly never seen that before in sport at a high level.....I blame Lemanis, he orchestrated it and I just hope someone in the media or administration has the moral fibre to call him and the team on it.

Phil Smyth is a wanker saying Faried is the next Kevin Durant and player people will spend big money just to watch play haha. How can you people with no clue hosting the tournament. NBA d leaguers would look like superstars against the opposition they're playing. Sack 'no clue' Phil Smyth. That comment was funnier than the boomers losing to Angola

I thought the goal was to win..not just finish with a medal. If you dont believe you can beat every team then why even play..just because teams have done it for years doesn't make it right. Have some pride and finish where you deserve. No usa team would ever tank too much pride. They could never show their faces at home

Love this decision to play the bench. Rest your guns, win or lose it does not matter. Good decision. I really don't think we tanked. I believe that we rested our guns and played our bench with the view that if we won or lost who gives a shit. Guarantee that the guys on court still played to win.

Goulding was unleashed, Jawai was good but looked tired, Dante showed glimpses of this high ceiling that people keep talking about.

Hey Michael - it's a whole different story when you're consistently the No. 1 nation in most competitions. The USA aren't in the next tier like Aus, so they never have to consider positions for knockout

It doesnt matter for Lithuania if they finish first or third. Its important that they avoid Usa in quarter final. They are better than Turkey, FInland, New ZEaland, Ukraine or maybe Dominican republic. So again it doesnt matter if they finish first or third.

It was pretty obvious that we tanked and anyone who disagrees is in denial. Terrible defense, not even trying to rebound, jacking up threes....i don't know how to feel. It helps us in the tournament but it's so....Un-Australian.

Michael, We don't believe we can beat every team. We lost because we know we will not beat the USA. For the first time we put ourselves in a position to control our destiny to a point. We played our cards and wait for the outcome of the next game.

Yannis, Lithuania will try to win as they get to play the weakest of the 4 teams in the other group and they will also avoid the USA in the quarters.

Agree we tanked but looking at the bigger picture of who we face in future rounds. So, really no big deal that we lost. Great for the second unit particularly Goulding, Jawai, Exum and Motum to get good minutes and good production.

To all those who think this stuff is Un-Australian, or that sport is or should be the shining light of morals and ethics in an otherwise tainted world - WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!

Sports been tainted for years, even when there was a lot more amateur athletes. Sport is drug addled, fixed, manipulated, and gouged by endless money interests. There's nothing pure anymore. Strategy for success.

You think Lemanis will lose his gig as coach for throwing a game, or maybe keep it if this in some way flukes us into the top 4?

let em carp. Go back over all World Cup/Champs, or any major tournament, and you can find examples of plenty of countries (probably the ones from those calling us cheating scum now) that threw games for better knock out positioning.

It is just WRONG, on so many levels. Where does it end, now Lithuania might throw a game. Why bother watching a non contest, what if the players decided to have a punt on the result. It unfairly disadvantages other teams in the group. It just isn't right.....but many of you are happy with the ends justifying the means so enjoy I guess.

Garth Holliday: You were my hero Ron! Why'd you have to say that? You come out with stink like that. [Starts to cry] Garth Holliday: Poop. You poopmouth, with poop out of your mouth! Ron Burgundy: Garth, if I would give you some money out of my wallet, would that ease the pain?

I am not going to read this thread any further.. too many people are too "moral"... everyone KNEW Lithuania would tank tonight for better postion.. but our tanking has given them incentive to win as they can go for first.. Why is it no one in Lithuania is sitting there having a period about the ethics of the Lithuanian team (Who mind you.. have more medals than we do.. think about that for a moment)

Everyone wanted to avoid the USA>. No one wanted to do the dirty work to make that happen.. morons saying they would rather "face the USA honorably"... Yes, because a 30 point bashing to the US does wonders for our sport doesn't it? And a first ever medal (which is very possible if we avoid US til the Semis) Is something we can just wilfully forgo .. we are Aussies right? we cant possibly lower ourselves to the type of tournament tactics that the rest of the world (AND ESPECIALLY MEDALLING COUNTRIES) Do...

How is this wrong? We played hard, we were tired, we needed to rotate to give guys more minutes, they didn't play that great. Angola was on fire, made us pay for mistakes and won the game. How is this tanking???

Lot of Pot.Kettle.Black going on here. How many other World Cup teams have done the same in the past .How many AFL or NBA teams have dropped dead rubber games to get a better draft pick. Listen to yourselves , you all sound like a bunch of whingers.

Yep, just poor rotations from Lemanis. The players had no energy to jump for rebounds, play defense, nor box out. Jawai had no energy at all late in the game, until there was an alley-oop highlight opportunity when he accessed his turbo fat reserves. The Boomers D was dumbfounded by Moreira's ability to convert uncontested put-backs.

For what its worth, commentators on ESPN here in the states just spoke about "conjecture" regarding Australia v Angola game.

We threw it.... deal with it, it was a bit of gamesmanship to create a situation that forces Lithuania to make a choice about their future in the tournament... seems they have more incentive to win than lose.

Bit of gamesmanship, still, Im amazed we actually threw it, seems like a flaw in the structure of the tournament. Is what it is.

What a disgrace from our team and it ll get a lot worse after slov beats lith... dont think lith has a lot of chances against slov, they played worse and slov will be a lot more motivated, while on the other hand liths couldnt really care if they are 1st or 3rd. We might even face a potential disqualification..

Ok I just saw the score and didn't watch the match but unless the Aussies were intentionally missing shots and turning the ball over I have no problem with how we played. Why not rest your best guys and give some younger guys some burn who have been getting splinters all tournament. It's been a grueling schedule with 4 huge games in the past 5 days. It was a dead rubber, rest the guns for the big games to come.

Look at what every NBA team does in the last few games of the season after their playoff position has been finalized.

Dragic is just pissed because now they have to win versus a Lithuanian team who have nothing to lose! Both Slovenia and Lithuania would have done the exact same thing in Australia's circumstances, give me a break.

Officially done with the Boomers. Disgrace. We're not going to win gold, who cares about the "prestige" of a bronze in the Fiba World Cup mickey mouse tournament. Put your best team on the floor and play hard no matter who the opponent is. You muppets act like you will be stoked if Aus pulls out the bronze due to this move. Who cares? I would rather take the 1 in 10,000,000 of beating a weak USA team.

By tanking you did absolutely nothing except give litho incentive to do the same. And guess what..you'll still get the US and get killed now that you've obviously told them you dont think you can win..you've embarrassed yourselves for no reason oh yes there was ..because euros have been doing it for years..aussie pride!!!

"By tanking you did absolutely nothing except give litho incentive to do the same."WTF? Winning gives Lithuania an incentive to tank, losing gives Lithuania an incentive to win. Which they did. So it worked perfectly.

Smart, tournament basketball by the Aussies to rest their stars and get some minutes into their bench in this game.

Tournament ball is about planning ahead and looking at the big picture. Managing your personnel as fatigue does become a huge factor. You need to give your team every chance to finish as high as they possibly can. Win or loose they were going top 3 so the game was a dead rubber, better to rest the guns for the big game.

I can't see any problem whatsoever with resting your stars in a game in a tournament like this.

Dana, Litho wanted to win. Trust me if Australia had beaten Angola Lito would have run their bench. It's tournament ball. Euros been running their benches in dead rubber games for years!!! Damn, Pop stole his philosophy from the Euros.

You know that tomorrow is a rest day. Yet people here are saying that by playing the bench "we were tired" Crap.Talking up Jawai, oh dear Shane maybe you should have him in your Bullets side. Fat and lazy who "has such a soft touch"!!! Who cares how many points 'bubbles' gets when Moreira is left unchecked and single handedly beats the Aussies. WE certainly might get Moreira a gig elsewhere now by making him look so good when he probably isn't that good. Allowing him to score more than double his average is equally bad for the Aussies.One of the worst Boomers results since Angola beat the Aussies 28 YEARS ago. Did they tank then too?LeManis, shame, shame, shame. Luke and the Doc. Shame, shame, shame.

"Litho could have rested their starters and finished 3rd like everyone here is trying to push as the right thing to do to avoid the US"The alternative for the Aussies was second and the US. The alternative for Lithuania was first and an easier run. Lithuania wouldn't have played the US regardless of the result against Slovenia, so they had everything to gain and nothing to lose. Whereas if the Aussies had won, that wouldn't have been the case and Lithuania would've tanked, and the Aussies would've been stuck with the US in the quarters.

"And the difference is Lithuania is too proud to TANK, no matter what the circumstances."No, the difference is Lithuania had something to gain by winning.

You have to understand that managing your athletes physically is very important. They are not infallible robots that can go out and play and play even in games that don't matter. If Baynes had snapped an ACL in the Angola game Lemanis should have been sacked !!!

Complete tank job, an analysis of the second half shows some interesting video. No Boomers in the lane for defensive rebounds, 3 Angola players fighting for the rebound nu-contested. No reaction defensively to Moreira taking over. Running the shot clock down on offense and then taking contested 3's. Single coverage on the block and simply letting them turn the corner with no pressure, leaving the lane wide open on defense. Well done Boomers, but not a good look. I think FIBA needs to look into this, one option is to reset the rankings after the group stage based on win/loss and % e.g. 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc.

I did watch the game v Angola, what can we take from it, well it was of course obvious that we rested our starters and didn't get back to cover the fast break often enough thereby giving the result away.

In the end it wasn't very Aussie like to play that way and you never want to flirt with winning form, but now we get to prepare for finals and really if we blow this opportunity given to us by Lithuania we should then look back at this as a poor performance.

If we get a medal because of how things have panned out we will all be talking very differently I believe...

Awesome tactics by the Aussie Boomers. It would have been more discreet had Angola been good at playing basketball but they sucked.

I think that the main plan was for the bench to play Angola and hope that Angola will take care of business but instead, our bench was kicking their asses by half time, so we had to resort to a more obvious tactic of not properly contesting the ball, and that almost didn't work either.

So the winners from last night were:

The Boomers The Boomers benchFans that got in on the betting actionThat Moriera player from Angola

The losers were:

Some fans that stayed up to watch itBetting AgenciesThe team that contracts Moreira for more dollars that what he's really worth as we padded his stats

seriously everyone here that is upset that australia tanked a game, really!!! Every sport in every competition on the planet does this.Teams in the NbA do it to get higher picks in the draft so does AFL sides as well. And lets not forget EPL sides and players who tank for financial benifit. Gambling is probably the main instigator of tanking just look at the IPL. Although I beleive the Boomers did it for increasing their chances to progress further into the championship and not for financial gain.

The tanking was blatant however, more so the coaching than the players. Did anyone else hear Lemanis' "You 4 to the offensive glass, Dante you've got safety"? early in the 3rd quarter? Jawai didn't come off until he was ready to collapse. Everyone was obviously told to play their men tight on the perimeter with nobody tasked with guarding the paint if a defender got blown by... I could go on but won't.

Unsporting.

Yeah, yeah, "smart", "everyone does it" etc etc, but its still unsporting. Resting your starters in a dead rubber is one thing, but let the players on the court try and win the game. And yes, it did work out for us with Lithuania beating Slovenia. But I still woke up with a bad taste in my mouth.

Ahhhh..so this is why Adrian Hurley was selected on the Boomers coaching staff...He has previous experience in losing to Angola. He has created history now being the only person to have been involved in 2 losses to Angola. Congratulations Adrian and well done to the Boomers on showing how to play the game at an elite level

Australia earnt the right to tank by beating Lithuania. That's right, you win the right games and then you find yourself in the drivers seat. If you looked closely you can see certain signals to 'back off boys' from Lemanis down the stretch. I think it was a well disguised 'lay down', but no doubt it was an intentional loss. The Euro teams have been doing this for ages btw. Usually for us though we have been scrambling just to make the top 4. When you beat a powerhouse certain advantages come with it. Well done Andrej and group.

The moment when Australia started tanking was when we were 15 points up in the 3rd. It was quite obvious what was happening, no defence in the lane, no contested boards what so ever. John Casey wetting his pants over Yanick was pretty embarrassing. The Hammer advocating tanking was quite funny as well.

The only positive out of the game was that Australia most likely could have won comfortably even with the bench out on the floor, shows decent depth. Goulding's shooting was impressive, hope he does well for his new club.

In any case, I'm not mad. If Australia can get past Turkey and then Lietuva (unless NZ pull off an upset), I would actually enjoy watching us play 2 extra games against quality opposition. Winning a bronze would just be a bonus.

The other big positive apart from missing the USA till medal rounds, is the bench played well and would have won the game if they hadn't purposely switched off. Remember Angola are African champs and took Slovenia to 6 points in a game both teams wanted to win, so well played by our bench guys. It can only help to have those guys in form and confident leading into the knockout rounds.

I knew we would rest 3 or 4 key guys, but knew our bench would run right through them, so I didn't throw anything on Angola.

Did not foresee an actual throwing of the game...was predicting just a Greg Popovich-style holding out of the star players, with the coaching staff and bench guys still committed to playing fair basketball.

I think its funny everyone crying over the morals of Australia doing this. yet it was a known fact Lithuania were going to do it if we didn't... I don't hear anyone say how little they respect Lithuanian Basketball?

Anonymous 274..... yes BA receives Federal Funding..... on performance..... & if they come back home with a bronze or better, then they are assured of continuity. Their decision has assured them that they will be in contention for the medal rounds.

Here's an interesting scenario......obviously the players knew and I would hope did not bet on it, however had they 'strongly suggested' to family members a bet was worthwhile some could have made a tidy sum.

Exactly. I was clearly discussed in advance that it was in Angola's interest to win and Australia's to lose. I think the only reason betting wasn't suspended here is that the sport doesn't attract the attention that soccer does.