GT - I actually don't mind that Pugs wants to stay around to see what is being written about her. What I find annoying is how she has made a point of telling us that she is staying around to read what is said. It is as if she wants to hear that people are annoyed with her so she can stay in her room, feel hurt and just tell herself, "See! I knew they never liked me anyway."And I agree with Bunnyb that Pugs has manipulated many members of the board with her neediness. GT, you are a really smart woman and I am suprised that you haven't noticed this. When Pugs has been on the defensive, she attacks and then almost instantly curls up in a ball and says, "Don't hurt me. I'm sensitive!" Well, many of us are sensitive. If you don't want a response, don't put yourself out there. You are taking a risk when you do.

If you're frustrated by it and not emotionally invested i dont see why you didnt just ignore it and let her be, like i did, instead of making her feel she can't post here. it's a friggin forum! the only other reason i could think of is jealousy/bitterness over all the time and support people have been offering her

First up (although less importantly), starship, fuck off. People who throw out jealousy/bitterness as an explanation for people's actions are lazy and exhibiting the lowest form of intelligence. Jealous of pugs? hardly. If you have such a low opinion of BUST and BUSTies then what are you doing here? go and play with the traffic instead.

Pugs/persiflager/GT, yes I'm harsh. I tell it like I see it. I am also a marshmallow, the hard exterior and gooey on the inside; I am one of the sweetest people you are ever likely to meet. Most of the time I come from a good place. I am also a bitch but I am not cold; I try to be but I'm not. What pugs is forgetting is that I really did empathise with her situation and I gave heartfelt advice, people who are cold don't do that. There is one area of her relationship -mr pugs not wanting children- that I completely understand and I tried to prepare her a long time ago for the turmoil that it would cause but unless you are saying what pugs wants to hear then you may as well be saying nothing at all. The things I said about pugs yesterday may be bitchy but they are also true: being a selfish brat isn't doing her relationship any good either and that is evident from her and mr pugs' posts but eventually saying it has been pointless.

I shouldn't have posted; I should have bit my tongue like I have a thousand times before. My opinions of pugs and her attention seeking ways to not stem from that post (and it is so frustrating to read over and over about that one post that nobody else can now read because it wasn't that!) For months (since she entered the Church? before?) pugs has played games with the board and it has been frustrating to see people I respect be so completely blind to it and only perpetuate her shit. The frustrating thing is that I know that there are people who agree with me who have PMd me complaining about pugs and calling her out for exactly what she is doing but they are too mature to actually post about it. God, I have had so many conversations about pugs that it's pathetic - why does the lounge and the people on it matter so much? I'm too much of a lay it out on the table person, that's one of my problems. I care too much and pugs reminds me of a total fucking bitch that I was friends with who destroyed me emotionally because people couldn't see her for what she was. I shouldn't have taken this personally. It's become so much bigger that pugs being an immature arse. There are so many PMs that go around laughing at other BUSTies and now I suppose it is my turn, even amongst people I consider friends who haven't been there for me. I wear my heart on my sleeve and I am way too sensitive to the insidious nature of all of this.

I am so fucking over this place; I hate the type of person it makes me. And yeah now I am being as much of a drama queen as pugs, whatevs. That doesn't mean I am flouncing a'la pugs (for the thirteenth time) but I wanted to voice how sick of it we can all become.

just sometimes? lol. since i got laid off, i've been trying to make it my full time job. i'm even taking a night school class. and i'm certainly not critisizing, star (mostly cos i think that comment was f'ing funny), but that statement sounds i tiny bit self-righteous.

********kitten is it possible she meant she'd be lurking in other threads?

i know you're just making a point, but this idea that somehow we know someone's motivation is absurd. but that she would want to know that, no, if we are talking about her is simply human nature, and doesn't qualify one as a drama queen. seriously. a drama queen would have been in here daily moaning about her problems, if anything pugs has been stoic, considering. i mean, think about, if we wanted to know about how she was doing, for the last week or more we had to PM her. how the fuck is that a drama queen? that's the antithesis of an attention whore. not to be a jerk about it, but the person who got the most attention out of this? bunny. just sayin'.

pugs would be going thru a very hard time, for someone who had done a lot of dating, so the fact that she's never had anyone other than mr.pugs means it's REALLY HARD for her. how many of us didn't go back to our first love? seriously. the girl i lost my virginity to gave me crabs. I STILL WENT BACK TO HER. even though i know she was cheating with a couple of different guys, i still thought she was the end all be all until i realized i thought more of myself. so this idea that somehow pugs is a whiner or attention seeker after 13 years with her first love, buying a house and waiting 4 years for him to grow the stones to tell her he didn't want to get married? fuck, she's handling it waaaaaay better than i would have. the house would be cinders if that was me, and lord knows what sort of hijinx i'd be plotting for his future. but that is beside the point. the purpose of the lounge, particularly this one is to talk about personal things and find comfort in like minded feminists. there are so many strange things we all confess in here, i find it so funny that someone would rip on her for doing what we all do. her behavior was no egregious than anyone else in that thread. it just amazes me that she would be attacked for being honest, and sharing with people that she thought were her friends, and part of her support system. do you see how that's kind of a violation? she came in here looking for support, now i know, as does she that busties don't really care for her choice, and that is fine, i'm the queen of harsh reality checks, but to say some of the things bunny did... bunny, i think you are a riot but i think that was uncalled for. and if you aren't her friend, why take it so personal? why go out of your way to attack her? i really don't get it. i've attacked people to the point that they don't want to post here anymore because of something that they did and it's just so....pointless. i think of the contribution they could have made if i hadn't been such a prick...

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"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

pugs - the fact that you say you will be lurking just confirms bunny's belief that you are a drama queen. You want to know that we are talking about you. You want to see what we say. But you want us to know that you are hurt and are refusing to talk to us. Your choice. But I do not think if you were confident and comfortable in your actions you would need to cling here just to see what is going on.

Um, FUCK YOU, Ananke, it's not like you've been an active part of the dialogue recently or Bust really for that matter, you little lurker. I was well within the rebuttal grace period. You're over it, don't like it, go back to a thread where you actually fucking contribute something once in a while. So suck it.

The conversation had moved on, someone had already said Take it Outside and you still had to post a rebuttal in thread? Way to drag it back to the bullshit. I've been on Bust since the days of warring with the Ms boards - I lost a couple of IDs and lost interest a few times as well, I won't shut up and stick to threads I post in because you had to have your hissy fit in two places, not just where it fucking belongs.

And as a point, I fucking agreed with you - talking about HAES and beauty at any size doesn't fucking mesh with fashion critique, particularly 'ew, those shoes make you look short' as if short is some fucking crime. Not to mention the ability to see ones arse through pants is generally a fashion crime, cellulite or not. But the conversation had moved on, why the fuck keep on with it? Why not let that thread move and take it over here? Why post in both places?

As an aside, yeah, ugg boots and slippers look gay as all fuck on a bloke. Good thing they're fucking slippers and up there with my clown pant pyjamas and holey Half-Life shirt as examples of 'what to wear in wintery weather in your own house'.

Thirties, I want to smack you over the head with a ten pound bag of cellulite.

Our "lack of understanding"? *OUR* lack of understanding? Jesus jumped up christ on a horse! As far as I can tell, the only one that doesn't understand in this sitch is you, Thirties. We have made it plain that we hear you & understand where you're coming from. We have also explained to you that we simply don't fucking care about your whole poor little fat girl drama, yet you just keep repeating yourself. And those of us that are big girls (And I am one, I weigh probably ten-fifteen pounds more than you & am about five inches taller.) aren't squealing about "anti-fat sentiments". IT'S JUST YOU. Again, this is your issue & your issue alone around here.

And as far as civility/foul language goes, blow it out yer ass. I kept it civil until you just wouldn't shut the fuck up & see that your little drama was a non-issue to the rest of us & that we weren't going to change to appease you. And perhaps you failed to notice it since you're so wrapped up in Thirties' world (Um, R is playing you, BTW. Fer reals.), but NOBODY disagreed with ME on this. NOBODY. I truly expected some blowback, somebody to tell me that I should be ashamed of myself for cutting (Through the fat!) to get straight to the heart of the matter as I saw it. BUT NOBODY DID. I don't expect anybody is gonna miss you if you mosy on to greener pastures.

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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."

I have no problem with the fact that you didn't like the outfit your co-worker was wearing. What I take issue with is your attitude about cellulite, and that fact that it seemed, by the tone of your post, that you find it disgusting. Please explain to me how writing "might I add, lots of ass cellulite, and ugly white shoes. Blechhhh" is not expressing disgust for the woman's cellulite and the fact that you could see it through her pants?You may protest as much as you like, but you're not convincing me. The way you chose to express your feelings in your post suggests anti-fat sentiment to me.

OMG!! I'm glad that you are a mind reader and can sense my attitude towards ASS FAT through a post. Good job. Who cares if I convinced you or not, I don't know you. My original post wasn't addressing you anyway. I am the type of person that says what I mean. And as I told you, my post was not anti-fat. You can take it how you like it. Whatever! I haven't lost sleep over it one way or another.

QUOTE

I'm sorry you don't like the fact that I stand up for what I believe in, but I'm a strong advocate for health at any size and fat acceptance. I was hoping, perhaps wrongly, that it would have a place here, on a forum that represents a magazine who's outlook and message I generally respect.

As I've stated before in this thread, I'm all for spirited commentary on things we see people wearing that we don't like. But I won't allow anti-fat sentiment to go without comment. I don't believe it has a place on this forum.

The thing I find most amusing (in a sick, sad way) is that after my initial comment to you, Konphusion, about your post (which was, simply put, "cellulite's ok"), AP preceded to read me the riot act for being "all 'fat acceptance, hooray!' & bully for you for it," and that I'm "coming from a hyper-sensitive fat place," and then accuses *me* of going over the top with my comments. You write that I'm "blowing things out of proportion." I've also been told I'm "fucking bitching about shit," when I have not yet once devolved into name calling or foul language and have tried to keep the debate civil. I would laugh if I wasn't so disappointed about the lack of understanding you and AP have shown.

I really was hoping for better and am disappointed that it's not here. I'm out and may not be back for a while.

Real talk, I could care less about you standing up for what you believe. I still do not feel bad about what I said. I do not apologize for it. My problem with you is that you chose to twist my words and nitpick the cellulite comment to death. Plus, if your main issue is with AP's initial reply- I have no control over what she said to you. However, I think she's absolutely right. You have blown this shit way out of proportion.

So if you feel the need to not come here anymore, that's on you. But don't try to reprimand me or anyone else for not agreeing with your opinion.Yours is not the only one that matters Thirtiesgirl!!

you saw it in the theater? oh, honeychild, no wonder you hated it! from what you've described of your hometown-which sounds very much like mine-i can just imagine, sitting in the dark with a bunch of slobs with no sense of art appreciation at all throwing popcorn at the screen and loudly complaining "fuck man, i thought you said the 'saw' guy did this one. what's this fag singing shit?" *sigh* repo never had a chance. no, the proper way to watch repo is by yourself in the afternoon, or late at night with a small group of like-minded friends, when you can dance around the livingroom singing/shouting along, and maybe smoke a bowl or two, and that makes it even better. crowd energy indeed.

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and with her step, i move my feet and with her hand, i feel my skin and with her need, i find i'm saved

So I see Thirties came back for a rebuttal. I can't imagine anything she said was enlightening, I didn't read it, but from other's responses, I can gather:

1) She's still harping on her fat acceptance thing because she "sees fat people persecution" everywhere like some kind of funhouse mirror M. Knight Shyamalan. It's the Fat Sense!

2) She said she was leaving & may or may not come back because she's so saddened by our lack of understanding of the fat girl's plight. HUZZAH! Goodbye self-important, obnoxiously authoritative, pain-in-the-ass!

Things nobody mentioned in a post, but I'm sure she did cause she can't shut the fuck up:

3) She completely glossed over/ignored her COMPLETE hipocrisy, because y'know, it doesn't matter. She's standing up for fat acceptance & that's all that counts. Screw short people that wear shoes that she finds distasteful. They can go to hell! Thirties has conviction! Cellulite is godliness!

4) I am evil for finally growing weary of her shtick. I'm sure she said something about my utterly uncivilised behaviour & mentioned name calling because I did, in fact, call her a short/fat, PC ninny among other things. Who cares if it's true, right? When I obviously I hate fat people!

My problem with this whole thing has been her seeing hate where clearly there was none. This is *her* issue, not ours. But now I am beating the dead horse.

All I can say is don't let the door hit ya in the great crevasse where the good Lord split ya.

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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."

Hey, I trembled, too when I clicked 'cause I thought for sure I was gonna get castigated back into the stone age. I'm glad that you came back so positively & that we are a'ight!

Okay, I gotta own that I liked the puppet scene. Fuck the haters. That was funny as shit. It was. Period.

Y'know, I think a sequel might be a good thing. An opportunity to get it right, tight, & outtasight! Maybe get some more money & some *decent* backing. Had it gotten decent backing, perhaps I'd have seen it in a theatre that was more in the spirit & liked it more. That makes a difference, y'know? Crowd energy counts.

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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."

oh, thank goodness, i saw you'd replied here and i trembled in fear before clicking. so glad we got that all that worked out! but i think i may have to go back to hating you for pointing me to that annoying insightful and dead-on review.

ah, the repetitiveness, the entirely unnecessarily 'mark it up' pavi/luigi duel, the superemoangst!giles, and of course the insult of paris hilton. but on the other hand, the cyber/steampunk gorgeousness of costume and setting, the 'squee, it's giles!' and that man at least-of all the players-can sing, the androgynous hotness of joan jett-i didn't even realize that was her-i still can't tell after numerous viewings if the guitarist was male or female, they were just sexy as hell. and i don't care how gory it was overall (not really that much, i thought, and i have low gore tolerance), the 'thankless job' number where nathan puts his hand up the guy's torso and uses him as a puppet? pure whimsical cuteness, and i will kick the ass of anyone who says different.

oh, and brace yourself aural, i hear rumor on the interwebs that the creators of 'repo!', one of whom was the guy that played the grave robber btw, see this as the first of three companion movies. where's our laughy devil smiley? we so need a laughy devil smiley!

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and with her step, i move my feet and with her hand, i feel my skin and with her need, i find i'm saved

This will go down as one of the most civilised TIO talks ever, I hope.

Dude. Grrrl. For reals, this was mutual misinterpretation. You felt like I was slighting a film you enjoyed on a singular basis, you stood up for your opinion. I felt like you thought I was being a film snob, so I stated my case for my dislike of the film. We crossed swords. The full intent of the word doesn't always come across in cyberspace, so we thought we were both being an asshole when we weren't. It happens.

I sincerely wasn't trying to dress you down anymore than you were me. I honestly didn't feel our encounter was confrontational, but you obviously did; again, that was not my intent & I'm sorry if you took it that way. I just thought we were talking film shit. But I can see where you were coming from.

I'm sorry if you felt I pushed things too hard & didn't let it die. But I personally learn a great deal from conversation. I often times don't know how I've upset a person until they tell me, which was why I was so irked when you just shut things down & barred any future discussion. I have a pathological need to work things out when I feel I've been misconstrued or I've completely missed another's point.

I NEVER wanted to be at odds with you. NEVER. I was surprised & hurt when you said you were going to avoid me over this. I mean, I'm an ASSHOLE. I am in full possession of this knowledge. But I also KNOW when I've been a total jerk & why somebody should avoid me. And it weighed heavily upon my mind that a conversation that I felt was innocuous would earn me such ire from somebody that I bore no ill will towards.

Yes, our beef was my initial inspiration for the new thread. The root, yes. BUT. NOT the only reason. I live in Podunk. I haven't been able to engage in a decent film discussion in ages because this place SUCKS & only gets mainstream films. I used to be able to catch arty stuff, but here the best I can get is our shite multiplex, cable (Thirty miles from here they don't even offer MTV because it is SINFUL secular music!) & our sad rental places. One of our religious leaders catches sight of a boobie? Yeah, that movie is gone from the local video joint. So I am woefully out of place as far as anything more than half-ass R rated goes. I just wanted a place to vent about how shite I found Confessions of a Shopaholic even if I got in for free.

So I hope we are cool. I don't think either of us meant to start any trouble & I like to think the new thread was a good born of our misunderstanding. A mitzvah for us all!

I must admit that this review of Repo! made me chuckle. It covers both of our points quite well, I think.

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"You're cute, like a velvet glove cast in iron. And like a gas chamber, a real fun gal."

been a while since this thread was used, huh? i certainly never thought i'd end up here; i'm generally a pretty easygoing person. confrontation makes me break out in hives. but i owe someone an apology, and if i have to take a couple hits on the chin to make it, then so be it.

so, aural, i saw the new movie thread, and i checked out the community forum to see what led up to it, and i want you to know that i sincerely appreciate the effort. i know i behaved badly in the original, and in the subsequent pm, and i am really sorry about that. part of it was what other people said about being intimidated by the highbrow discussions, part of it was because i've just been having the shittiest week at work and at life in general, and neither one of those is your fault.

part of it though was getting dressed down in public and seeing everyone high five you for it. it was really embarrassing and hurtful, and i totally deserved it, but still. and you made some passive-aggressive comments (at least that's the way i read them, and i'm probably wrong, again) in the community thread that were, again, hurtful but totally deserved. the thing is, i'm just imagining you and everyone else passing around my pm and tittering behind your hands about what an ass i made of myself, and i'm sure you're going to tell me i'm assigning way too much importance to myself and that i just need to toughen up and deal with the consequences, and you'd be right. i dunno, maybe i'm just an overly sensitive wuss who just needs to get over myself already. i just don't deal well with confrontation, which is a failing on my part, not yours.

i don't know you very well, but you've been around the lounge a lot longer than i have, and i respect that, and i respect what you have to say (again, when it's not showing me up for the whiny adolescent i am sometimes). i don't like being at odds with you, even if it's just my own inflated ego talking, and i don't want to be. i don't know if we'll ever be friends or be really easy around one another, but i just wanted you to know that any ill feelings on my part have been completely exhausted, and i hope the same's true for you. i know you didn't start the new movie thread just for my dumb ass, but i really do appreciate it, and i'm sure i'll make frequent use of it once i get over this and decide i can show my face in public again. anyway, i just wanted to tell i'm sincerely, sincerely sorry for jumping your ass like that.

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and with her step, i move my feet and with her hand, i feel my skin and with her need, i find i'm saved

i have visions of being 98 and in a nursing home trying to get 20 year old high school drop out "aides" to pluck my chin hair.

How snotty and judgmental! I would never rag on someone's job like that. I'm one of those lowly CNAs you so respectfully referred to, and I'll have you know that none of us are high school dropouts. In fact a lot of us are in college, struggling to pay for nursing school or whatever because Mommy and Daddy don't have the money. I don't know what the fuck you did in college but I bet you weren't a brain surgeon. CNAs are infamous for being overworked, underpaid and understaffed. We bust our asses just trying to get everyone's basic needs met, so in the future if we don't get a chance to pluck chin hairs and feed you peeled grapes at the expense of everyone else, blame the system for making patient ratios so astronomically high. Do you even know what we do? It's hard, backbreaking, dirty, incredibly stressful and at times heartbreaking work for low pay, but it's also very rewarding knowing we've made a difference in a resident's life, because unfortunately their family couldn't or wouldn't care for them. We ARE the family for a lot of those people and we do as much as we can. The last thing we need is your disrespect! So get off your high horse, please.

"what a swell farewell party! we said goodbye to everything, including the lining in my stomach." - garvey, from the film, born bad

"That's one career all females have in common, whether we like it or not: being a woman. Sooner or later, we've got to work at it, no matter how many other careers we've had or wanted." --margo channing, all about eve

Oh, what the fuck ever, Nohope. Your cock will remain untouched by female saliva. Could I offer you shares in Wet?

When you can't engage the subject, change the subject

While we are changing subjects. This year I got my first iPod. The touch. I totally love it. I jail broke it and have all kinds of cool apps on it. It was really usefull to me. I was able to use it to help my perents look for a retierment community since my dad has come down with an uncurable form of bone cancer.

Its also been usfull for work. I can listen to podcasts for intance on my walk and bike to work. And the google maps were useful for moving across country. My partner was accepted to in a PhD program.

Well I got to go make pizza now so she can eat. Its going to be half pepper pesto, half fake peperoni with a herb crust.