I own about 8 cams and 2 hexes that would fit that crack and be way better and easier to place. The answer to so many of life's problems is more gear. In 20 odd years of placing a lot of gear and more than a few moment of improvision, I have never had to stack nuts.

15 years ago at ben cairn (down the right end of the main face) I was surprised to find that there wasn't a middle bolt. I had my wires so I stacked 2 in a shallow flared crack, I couldn't find anything else. They wouldn't have held, I would've hit the ground.

On 12/12/2013 Mr ajfclark wrote:>Got me wondering how many people actually stack nuts and how much they>trust them.
They are very bomber Mr ajfclark. You should try it sometime, but be careful to attach a keeper sling to the upper one if you configure them like in your lovely photo.

On 12/12/2013 MrsM10iswhereitsat. wrote:>They are very bomber Mr ajfclark. You should try it sometime, but be careful to attach a keeper sling to the upper one if you configure them like in your lovely photo.

I've used them a number of times here and there when the situation has called for it but if I sat down and thought about it I could probably count them on one hand.

On 12/12/2013 Snacks wrote:>I guess the question is how much worse are they than a non-stacked piece>that fits the same sized placement.

They are wobbly in a good placement, but not too bad in a parallel placement. Before cams they were used a bit at frog buttress>>Anyone taken a fall on stacked nuts?
I've taken some little ones and aided on them.

In really thin parallel cracks doing something like that is your only option with small RPs or something similar. It does work and i have taken many falls (slumps really) on such stacks. The only time such a placement has failed for me is when the wire on stacked 0rp's busted after a few slumps (ie the placement was fine but the wire couldn't handle the scraping on rock).

On 12/12/2013 Stugang wrote:>>In really thin parallel cracks doing something like that is your only>option with small RPs or something similar. It does work and i have taken>many falls (slumps really) on such stacks. The only time such a placement>has failed for me is when the wire on stacked 0rp's busted after a few>slumps (ie the placement was fine but the wire couldn't handle the scraping>on rock).

Stacked 0 RPs! Pull the other one Stugang. Where and why were you relying on this sort of nonsense?!

tried it when i was learning some aid stuff on the safety of a top rope,
held fine, was a bit nervious i was going to get "nutted" by them when they blew.. but they didnt... would hate to have to place them in lead non aid situation as it was a bit fiddley getting it sorted

On 12/12/2013 simey wrote:>Stacked 0 RPs! Pull the other one Stugang. Where and why were you relying>on this sort of nonsense?!>
I was attempting to free an old aid line in adelaide called Olympus. The placement was a bit less than a metre above an old school totally rusty carrot (placed by col) but really close to the ground so I wanted the extra piece to stop the potential deck.

I returned soon after that and stuck a bolt next to the wire stack (hanging off a replaced stack) which I think is usually stick clipped on the occasional time people repeat it. For a while you could see the busted wires sticking out from a mile away but now they've been trimmed.

On 12/12/2013 Stugang wrote:>On 12/12/2013 simey wrote:>>Stacked 0 RPs! Pull the other one Stugang. Where and why were you relying>>on this sort of nonsense?!>>>I was attempting to free an old aid line in adelaide called Olympus. The>placement was a bit less than a metre above an old school totally rusty>carrot (placed by col) but really close to the ground so I wanted the extra>piece to stop the potential deck.>>I returned soon after that and stuck a bolt next to the wire stack (hanging>off a replaced stack) which I think is usually stick clipped on the occasional>time people repeat it. For a while you could see the busted wires sticking>out from a mile away but now they've been trimmed.

In 3 years that is the first time you have ever talked about climbing Stugang.

On 12/12/2013 mikllaw wrote:>On 12/12/2013 Snacks wrote:>>I guess the question is how much worse are they than a non-stacked piece>>that fits the same sized placement.

The only way they are worse, is that they are so secure that they can be a real bugger to remove by the second!
They really came into their own pre-cam days for parallel cracks where no other nut placements would work.>>They are wobbly in a good placement, but not too bad in a parallel placement.>Before cams they were used a bit at frog buttress

I beg to differ about them being wobbly.
They are not hard to set and your second won't thank you if you set them too hard.
I find them extremely reliable and use them regularly.>>>>Anyone taken a fall on stacked nuts?>I've taken some little ones and aided on them.>
I took a 4 to 5 m fall onto stacked nuts once while free climbing. I needed my aid hammer to get them back as they almost became 'fixed' pieces.
After that fall they have become 'favourite' pieces!! ~> It is pretty amazing how fast that can happen, ... heh, heh, heh.

Since then I have had quite a few 'slumps' onto them (mostly while aiding), and find them totally trustworthy provided they were placed correctly to start with.

>Some were like this
(snip)>and these were more secure (the rope tension held them in better)
(snip)
I appreciate the effort you went to, to draw the diagram mikl, though here are some photos (better?), of the double-slung chocks I always carry (two sets of) on my harness, as part of my general use/self rescue kit.
They are slung on spectra which can be used as spare slings, extensions at belays, prusik cords if needed, etc.

This photograph below shows one of them. Notice that the smaller piece is on top, as this allows either piece to be used individually, though if needed they have extra versatility by being able to be used stacked.
They are my pieces of last resort for keeping to set belays when all else is expended from the rack, which allows for their possible use as emergency pro or prusik cords.

This is a normal placement when stacked.

However they can be used offset for funky placements too, with good reliability.

Detail of funkiness... (can be useful on some flared cracks).

>>There was a one-off English nut previously:->

That is a magic piece of kit eh!>>All required you to be Siva the 3 handed god to place
?
Sometimes, ... but I don't climb as hard as you, so generally find stances where they can be placed easily. The fact that they are double-slung helps this greatly.

As an aside: I can see why many would dismiss the concept as old technology, but I have found it works so I still use it, and my only concession to modernising it has been upgrading to spectra and replacing the heavy oval krabs with wire-gates to lighten the load.

My only negative comment about them is that despite their versatility, they can only be used for one placement during any given lead, hence why I husband them till toward the end of a pitch (where possible), particularly on adventure routes.