Modern gender study. Where’d it come from? A horrible experiment ^^ That resulted in suicide of these twin boys.

Gender is not a social construct itself. Gender is biological. And saying anything otherwise is extremely harmful. Why do you think gender dysphoric people commit suicide at such an alarming rate? We shouldn’t feed into this.

That image only shows a problem with the clothing industry (gendering clothes is kind of silly, let’s be real).

There’s more to gender itself than biological vs social construct, and barely anyone takes Dr. Money seriously anymore (there are newer studies by non-terrible people to support his points that are valid), and psychologists nowadays all learn about how horribly that case study ended. Gender is a multifaceted construct, influenced by a number of biological, psychological, and social factors. To say otherwise is an oversimplification. That’s what people mean when they say gender is a social construct, along with the fact that someone’s gender identity isn’t always going to match their biological sex.
Of course forcing a cis boy to live as a girl will have tragic consequences the same way that forcing a trans boy or assigned-female-at-birth nonbinary person to live as a girl will. The difference is that it isn’t at all common to force cis boys to live as girls beyond that one single-case experiment, but the other situation is extremely common, using “gender is biological” (albeit an inaccurate interpretation of it) as the main justification.
The real lesson from this case study is that you can’t force someone to take on a specific identity, and lying to your children about important things while forcing them to live in a way that makes them uncomfortable will inevitably traumatize them. Kind of like when trans (and especially nonbinary) peoples’ parents force them to live as a gender they don’t identify with.

There are multiple studies on why trans people have such high rates of depression and suicide (almost always resulting from depression or PTSD if we want to look at the direct causes). The general consensus is actually that only around half of it is dysphoria. The rest is due to a lack of competent medical and mental health care (including for things unrelated to transition itself), discrimination, harassment, being targeted disproportionately for violence, constant invalidation (though that admittedly feeds into dysphoria), the stress of hiding one’s identity, feelings of shame caused by stigmatization, lack of a social support network, etc. All of these can be avoided by a positive, affirming environment, and dysphoria can be alleviated through transition (whatever that means for the individual).
Yes, people with gender dysphoria commit suicide at a higher rate. The prevalence of the whole “there are only two genders and it’s 100% biological” line of thinking is an indirect contributor to that, as it’s the most common excuse for the problems listed above.

What I don’t understand is when people think it’s acceptable to ignore gender as a whole. For example someone says that gender just causes controversy, and if we acknowledge it causes inequality. Isn’t it the same as saying, you can’t even acknowledge your race or the color of your skin… because it may cause “controversy”.

It really matters by how you speak on it. How others speak on it is like they are treating it very discriminatory and the people who are part of the gender each as objects. It best to be careful on how you approach it.

That image is just a meme, LOL I thought it was funny, not serious ^^’ I’m not often a very serious person, so >.>

This Dr. Money bs is just where it came from originally. He was saying “Ah! Success!!” This story is not a success, and nothing he says should be taken seriously. That’s the point.

And I just disagree with you, and so do biologists. shrugs There can be things about gender that we associate with the culture, but gender is biological, and there are only two of them. There’ll always only be two, there always has been. Gender is determined by sex.

purplezombieattack:

half of it is dysphoria. The rest is due to a lack of competent medical and mental health care (including for things unrelated to transition itself)

Dysphoria is a mental illness, though. Of course it has to do with the mental illness. If you aren’t treated for your dysphoria…that’s lack of health care.

Pretty sure someone said something about intersex here somewhere, I’ll just go ahead and nip it the bud. Intersex is not a third gender LOL >.> Intersex is a birth defect. Intersex people are still biologically one gender: male or female.

Sex and gender are medically defined as being separate. They have been for years now. They’re linked and sex often heavily influences gender, but they aren’t exactly the same thing. Most doctors and biologists would actually tell you that gender identity itself is multifaceted, even if sex is largely binary in humans and 100% biological. It also isn’t reasonable to expect anything organic to fit into a binary 100% of the time. Of course intersex isn’t a gender, but it lends support to the fact that things don’t always fit into neat categories like we want them to. Doctors often struggle with how to classify intersex infants as male or female, and it includes a lot more medical testing and sometimes waiting than the usual “you look like my idea of male, let’s go with that!” Gender identities ( or genders, for short) vary widely, and there’s no logical reason to expect it to always fit into a box, even if it does most of the time. That’s why the medical definition of gender dysphoria includes people who identify as nonbinary. And regardless of what you believe and why you think gender identity develops, you should respect what people identify as anyway, so let’s keep that in mind.

Again, lack of health care goes beyond transition-related healthcare. Trans people also struggle to find doctors who don’t reduce their non-dysphoria-related problems to their gender (a common joke among the trans community is you could see a doctor when you have the flu and they’ll still think it’s because you’re transgender and, unfortunately, it’s not that far from the truth) or who even give them the tiniest shred of respect while treating them for things like depression. As I said, a huge portion of suicidal ideation among trans folks is due to stigma, lack of social support, and discrimination.

This is just a matter of semantics, but dysphoria is classified as a medical condition, but not a mental illness. The simple reason is because it doesn’t always fit all three criteria for a mental illness on its own (deviation and distress are there, but dysfunction typically only exists if there’s another comorbid condition such as depression, which is unfortunately common, again because of the problems trans people face in society itself).

I didn’t mean to say they were the same, if I did somewhere, or was interpreted that way, didn’t mean it ^^’ lol

purplezombieattack:

And regardless of what you believe and why you think gender identity develops, you should respect what people identify as anyway,

No one is denying, this. I agree with this quite a bit, actually ^^ not always completely the reason why being that I’ll right off the bat be cool and chill, I respect people first, I don’t necessarily think respect has to be earned all the time, that’s kinda ridiculous to me. Respect people until they give you a reason not to. So…shrugs Just depends on the individual.

Also, that’s fair. As soon as a discussion comes down to semantics, it’s just…lol ^^’ yeah, semantics. The end of all discussions. Anyways, cool to read your POV! Thank you so much <3 <3

You’d be surprised how many people deny that they should respect others’ identities on a regular basis, but it’s good to know you’re not one of them. I see there as being two types of respect: respect as an authority and respect as a person. Respect as an authority figure has to be earned (I’m not just gonna call anyone a good leader because they claim to have leadership skills, screw that), but respect as a person? Yeah you give that out for free until someone’s just flat-out awful. Completely agree with you on that.

Biologicaly, there is two sexes, male and female.
Gender is all in your head.
Gender is how someone chooses to express themselves. Gender does not have to “match” with sex. I believe there can be an infinite amount of genders, because everyone is different in their own way.

Yeah, I know some of some people that are like, “I won’t feed into your fantasy!” Or some nonsense…like…okay, calling Blaire White a man just because she was biologically born male, but like…??? It really isn’t that hard to just call people what they are >.>

As for some of the made up pronouns, I theoretically get that point that conservatives make, but not personally because I’ve never met someone that was like, “I’m zie/zir” and anything like that, I mean. Fuck, I’ll try my best because why not? Honestly…why not?

I think we all, as humans, need to be patient with each other. It needs work on both sides ^^ <3 <3 <3

My opinion is there are only two genders (not counting intersex cuz it’s a different story), and a lot of physiological abnormalities (couldn’t pick the right word). I’m coming from the fact, that if I would identify myself with a dog, that would be a reason to put me into special institution.
Now so we’re clear, cuz there are some people who like to call on “bIgOtrRy” and “rAcIsM”, I don’t hate these people, If they would ask me to call them somehow specific, I would probably go with it, although I would feel uncomfortable because iе goes against my views.

In my opinion I believe that there are two genders, you are either born as the sex male or female and that is that, but now there is said to be more. You can identify as many things other than male or female but in the end you either carry 2 X chromosomes or an X and a Y. In the end it doesn’t matter if you identify as anything, as long as you’re happy with who you are

There are two genders you can be born with. Those are the only genders a person can have when they are born. You can identify as gender fluid and change your gender, but you will always either be male or female by the look of your um…private parts? You can even choose to identify as a fruit if you’d like, but there are only two genders you can be.

Gender is a social concept, and the concept itself is fluid. You can tell this with some study into history and sociology. Things that were viewed as masculine as now feminine; things that are masculine now were once feminine. Our collective idea of gender changes through time and across culture.

So, as the idea of whats feminine and whats masculine can change, its illogical to say that someone born with specific biological characteristics must always identify rigidly with a changing concept of gender. Further, it makes no sense to say there are only two genders when the idea of what those genders are keeps changing.

Furthermore, if the gender concept can change, so can how someone who identifies with it. They may understand themselves better as they get older and change how they identify with gender, or they might just identify with a different aspect of gender differently on any given day. Hence, genderfluidity. Or, they might not identify with the concept at all, hence agender or genderneutral.

This isnt just me, by the way. These are experts in sociology, biology, psychology, endocrinology, history, and other relevant fields, who have consistently explained the difference between sex and gender, the history of gender, the psychology of gender and body dysphoria, and so on. I recommend studying the subject of its difficult to comprehend. Its really eye opening.

And, for the record, there aren’t even only two biological sexes. Intersex people exist, and their gene patterns vary from one to another.

I hope this makes sense, typing on my phone is hell and I’m exhausted and not 100% sober

EDIT: I forgot to add that whatever your beliefs, misgendering someone is rude and cruel, and for no reason. Changing pronouns isn’t hard, nor is calling someone another name. Its not your business to tell someone else that their identity is invalid and wrong. Just be chill and use the pronoun they give you, even if you dont understand it.