Lies

You breathe. I lie. Both come to us naturally. To you, an empathic and caring person who is imbued with the traits of decency, honesty and integrity the act of lying is anathema to you. Even the use of a little white lie as it spills from your lips has you feeling uneasy. You conduct yourself in a way that involves avoiding lying and you would rather stay silent than let an untruth escape your mouth. Not only will you not lie,you detest being lied to. The lie shatters trust. Trust is a fundamental ingredient,in your world, to any relationship, whether it is between spouses, colleagues, parent and child or service provider. Without trust nothing would be achieved and the world would be a darker place. Breaching that trust is a terrible act and where your trust has been broken by the issuing of a lie then you react with horror, anger, upset and dismay. I can think of no better device for drawing an emotional reaction from your kind than the issuing of a lie. Those three letters create a small word but one which has all manner of repercussions. From the lies that accompany infidelity which strikes at the core of the relationship, to the lies told by those in power to remain a demagogue and achieve political expediency, the effect of not telling the truth is substantial and enormous. Lying results in damage. Lie to your friends and you lose their respect, lie in a court and you commit perjury, lie about your circumstances and you commit fraud,lie to your children and you begin to warp their world, lie to your other half and you destroy a part of them. A small word which packs a thermonuclear punch. So easy to say, so simple to use and the effects can be devastating. No wonder my kind and me relish its use. Economical and effective, no other tool comes close to the power of telling lies and this is why we use them repeatedly,often and extensively.

The advantage of their use is by telling you a Long Involved Explanation we lead you up the garden path and around the houses causing you to become confused and bewildered. The advantage to us is that the terrible truth of what we do becomes Lost In Explaining what we have done by use of our convoluted and twisted diatribes. We tell untruths from the moment that we seduce you as we detail to you our Lovely Ideas Embellished with falsehood about how we will achieve a promotion in under six months, climb Mount Everest and interior design our new impressive home. The fact is that we are fantasists who exaggerate our achievements and our plans so that the Lucid Ideas Expand beyond reality. The use of lies assists us in evading the finger of blame. You will try and catch us our but there is never a Lapse In Exposition as we weave an ever more complex web in which we wish to ensnare you, leaving us untarnished. You look on in astonishment as Laughing I’m Escaping accountability yet again. No matter what I have done, no matter how heinous the activity I will allow untruths to spill from my lips with consummate ease so that I remain in control, superior and blame-free. Often it will be a short and bare-faced lie, designed to have you speechless with incredulity as I walk away Laughing Inside Energetically at your shocked face. On other occasions, I will engage in the shaggy dog story, going round and round, adding more and more to the tale so that I Lovingly Insinuate Eventually that you are the one to blame and this makes you react all the more. How can we have the audacity to say such things and turn the blame onto you? Look It’s Easy, we have no sense of remorse or guilt for the things that we say. You are burdened with a conscience and a moral compass that causes you to steer a path so you always stick to the road of truth. We have no such compass. We do not have a conscience and this allows us to weave and twist, taking our explanations into the realms of the fantastic. Whether we are boasting and bragging about what we are or seeking to escape culpability we will lie incessantly. You will plead with me to tell the truth. You will promise that there will be no upshot, no comeback and no consequence you just, for once want to hear us speak the truth. You know the truth but you want me to tell you, so you can hear it for once. Like I’m Ever going to do that. Why should I give you something that you want? Why should I cede control to you ? Most of all, why should I give up the opportunity of gathering fuel from you? This is why we lie extensively, even when the truth might actually serve us better (better when judged from your viewpoint of course – not ours) we will gain fuel. Our twisted lies always cause you to react and provide us with fuel. If a situation is Lacking In Emotion we know that all it takes is for us to tell you a lie, the bolder the better, the more brazen and ridiculous it is the greater your reaction will be because you hate lies and you hate being lied to. As you stand before me frustrated and upset, I am Laughing I’m Escaping yet again any responsibility for my actions. I will smother you in untruths, layer lie upon lie, Literally It’s Engulfing you in falsehood so that you no longer even recognise the truth, such is the level of distortion. We lie to everyone. The man in the corner shop about how many goals we scored at football, lies at work to cover our backs and to plunge knives into the backs of others. Lies to a friend about how much we like him just to keep the Little Idiot Entertained. Repeatedly we will lie to you to ensure you remain Locked In Entanglement with us and cannot escape. We use lies to express our false sorrow, our faux remorse and our promises to change just so you will not Leave In Earnest. We show-off with lies in a crowd to bring the spotlight back on to us as we talk over other people because we Like Interrupting Everyone. The lie is a Limitless Invigorating Example of what we really are. A fraudster, a charlatan, a con-man and a pathological liar. We know no other way and we have no desire to embrace any other way. I will always lie, I am Loving It Everyday because it furthers my schemes, underpins my ambitions, avoids accountability and brings me fuel again and again.

i call BS on part of this… you do not “always” lie or you’d be lying for everything you have ever posted here as well…

that said, I once asked my ex why he lied and he replied that he was aware that he lied but he had no clue why he lied… – again proof he was a lesser narc. I just thought his answer was strange… you would think that anyone could figure out why they lie… for attention, to avoid something, to cause grief… but he seemed to genuinely have no clue… and that seemed to be a sincere answer where the question left him dropping the facade for a moment… and that in itself left me with plenty of unasked questions… questions I know he would not have answered.

Yes after the experience with “the one of my kind” like HG says, (and still going on) we do change
We loose that naive trust..( not all) but the frightening reality is…
we are screwed up..
What are ” this kind”?

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Of course not, I wouldn’ t myself cast any stones!
The admittance it is not against them.. ohhhhh… no… coming to admitting, it is ( i think) one way to find true honest interaction with those willing to do so, and it would bring some order out of all the chaos.. if you know what i mean…
Admitting who we are isn’ t a good start for growing? And learn about ourselves?
That is what HG is doing already here.
It would gather around a greater number of committed friends that stick it out for who we are… and not for what we are not!
To me that it is of great worth.
Now i understand what you mean about HG
however, if i understood correctly, he is planning to reaveal his identity.
I don’t know if just with followers or the whole world
but of course, even if he’ll just reaveal it to followers.. soon the whole world would know it anyway… duh!!
That remains to be seen.

Maria
Thank you for clarifying, admittance would bring order to chaos. Awareness and honesty with oneself brings growth.
One thing I do know for a fact, if HG decides he will reveal who he is, it will be on his terms.

You are correct that sometimes a lesson from an N can be valuable, regardless of percieved intention. It would be hypocritical of an empath not to try and understand, and would represent growth to apply the lesson in a logical manner that ultimately reduces anxiety.

HG
Laugh away at the gullibility of some and the indifference of others, but Creature knows the truth, and it is he who laughs the loudest and will have the last if you stay this course. All of what you are and what you do is for him. To contain him and quiet him. The one who you deem weak but who holds all of the power, controls your every move, who allows you to lay the blame with him for what you do to others. So tell me….Who is really the fool?

For the record: I took no pleasure in saying that, but it might bear some consideration on occasion that perhaps he does not want to mock or ridicule you, sink his teeth into you, or push you into oblivion. Maybe he just wants to breathe. To take pride in all that you have acheived and become since he was locked away so long ago. To use his last laugh for her instead of you.

HG what happens if your primary source (empath having gained some enlightenment) starts to fabricate outrageous stories and lies like the Narc but he buys them just like the Empath did his lies and he finds out later on. What happens when the tables turn? What happens when the Narc get’s fooled and one plays the same games? Besides rapidly being discarded?

How much of what you write about are lies? I am pretty certain that you are not lying about the machinations, mechanisms and games/tricks/cons you run. But how much of the details are lies? Like you convey that you are very wealthy, in an established family/politics or something like that, but is it true? Do you indeed have such an expensive lawyer? Fancy cars? Are you really that “high” up in business? When I think of this post and the more recent one, about the exagerations of your accomplishments/identity, I now have to ask, how much are you lying here about the aura of the life you have been weaving in to all of your stories? We will never know, will we?

The difference between the two might be relative. I know someone who doesn’t see himself as wealthy but his social media posts are all about his safaris, first class travel, regular gourmet meals, fine clothing and expensive trips. Thats very wealthy to me. Its hard to tell if you have that much money to spend on cultivating such environments with people.

Hi HG Tudor
Do you know if there is a place where those who have had the experience of being involved with a narc where they can expose them? I’m curious to know if there is such a place where we can warn others anonymously by keeping a record of names of those narcs encountered?
Thanks

that would be dangerous as there would be a real risk for defamation of character repercussions and slander. Good as the narcs are, they would jump on that for fuel and to crush the hope and do more damage to their [former] victims. Plus I don’t think it’s legal in most places to give real names.

Oh how I love this blog! My ex N would tell me the thing he liked best about me was that I liked him for who he was. And that he was never honest with anyone but me. And other times he would say, “You will never figure me out.” I believe I am a Super Empath because part of me did not care either way. I just really enjoyed the sex and feeling like a teenager again. I told him I only wanted a physical relationship but he reeled me in. He wanted me to love him. I only really miss the sex now that I realize everything else were lies. It took 2 months after being discarded to realize this. There have been no hoovers to my knowledge. I only fear a hoover in person because I am afraid I cannot resist sex 1 more time.

You know I always get inspirational thoughts:
I admire a Narc that is not afraid to tell who he/she is, if they know of course.
It takes gut.
But I cannot stomach Narcs when the lie on their identity as well, that it is cowardliness.
I am severely allergic to cowards.
They are the opposite of courage.
HG, you have gut telling who you are here, but the real test of courage would be when you will have the gut to tell your real identity to everyone.
Of course the repercussion must be dreadful, but it would be disappointing if you choose cowardliness.
( I am Maria when I post from my mobile)
I am on my laptop at the minute and is using my WordPress.com username.

It would be interesting to learn more about the person behind the writing, Maria, but I would not consider it an act of cowardice if HG remained anonymous. It takes courage to lay your mind’s workings bare and make yourself vulnerable to criticism. There is risk in revealing one’s identity, both for one’s professional and private life – just think about the dragon that gave birth to him, the truth would do her good, but she would not take it kindly! 😀

Maria are you saying the repercussions to only his life would be dreadful? I would believe there would be, those repercussions would be felt by more then just him thou.
By staying anonymous he is protecting more then just himself.
Courage comes in many forms and not always in the ways one expects.
I mean no disrespect and fully understand your view on what is courageous and what isn’t.

Yes of course the repercussion in a Narcs’ s life would be enormous if he/she would find the courage to admit who they are , either if they know, or accept it if others point it out to them…
However who knows, perhaps that sort of courage could be the key to unravel and heal the so called “impossibilities to change narcissistic’ ingrained vices”
after all, to cure a malady the right medicine had to be found .. and if the cure would be accepted, then changes have to follow.
If you know what i am getting at.
I am not suggesting to change the whole person.. ohhhh.. no.. as Narcs people have so many fantastic , admirable and wonderful traits… but only making adjustments for a greater mean to an end..
for example: one would be the minimazation of hurting …

Maria
Why do they have to admit publicly for it to be considered courageous? Why can’t they admit it privately and it still be considered courageous?
If he has admitted to the good doctors and is in agreement with them as to what he is, explain how this isn’t showing courage?

Everything is brought into the light at the right moment in time, and that time isn’t always when you or I say it is.

Maria
Let me put things another way from asking why.
How would you react/respond to the person you were involved with a courageous act of admitting what they are? Would you respond/ react with understanding and unconditional love or would you be the one to throw the first stone?

Such a …. Today a seventeen year old boy cried in front of me. My first thought was : Crocodile tears or real tears? I do not know. Yes, it changes so much in life, when you have had a relationship to a Narcissist. In the past – I would have melt down in empathy, now I act as if I was empathetic, in the background I try to find out, if there are lies. I check every word and his behaviour. I do not like that development. I do not like to see in every person a monster first.

Hallo amsodone (March15,2017, AT 7:45) , too late. I changed side. But I only fight against my personal devil without remorse, regret or any fairness. Eye to eye… Besides , I checked the young man. Crocodile tears, he stole a car and does not want to do his social work. Excuses over excuses.: He is ill, he is sad …. No responsibility. So, maybe he has to go to prison for one or two weekends. What a nice career! I do not help people anymore who do not do their job (social work). Tit for tat.

Maria, like amsodone said: “Being aware is a good thing.” First you see everywhere Narcs…. I overreacted to some of my real friends, when they even tried to critizise me a little bit. Now it is better. But I will never be the one, whom I was before that experience. And I found out some real narcs in my environment. You change your opinion about people. Now I have to be careful not to become a cruel, cold person. And sometimes it is hard to control feelings of anger and fury.. I do my best to remain reliable, responsible, honest, calm , sensitive and caring. But only to people who deserve it. The other ones see my cold face. I hope I do not make to many faults. I still have to learn to differentiate between them (narcs and victims).

I was fantasizing about playing chess with you, and in this daydream you put your bishop from the black fields on a white field and then said I had remembered it wrong, it had been the bishop running on the white fiels all along.

If someone respects or likes you for example for your writings and your good advice and open mindedness and superior insight, is this of more or different worth to you than when someone falls for your lies? (assuming we are getting the truth here.)

I am proud of the many things I have accomplished in my life but there is always more that can be done. I am also proud of my writing et al here. The fact remains that fuel is what I need. If that fuel comes from your response to something genuine or something fabricated, it does not matter. Fuel is what is needed.

So, your sense of self worth is linked to the responses of other people to you but it makes no difference if these responses are generated by something real/by you OR something fabricated by you/a false persona?

I think you might be surprised by how much some know, but keep to themselves. Some people are very adept at seeing thru even the best of facades. These same people often remain silent for various reasons.

Windstorm, I used to know all the time. I have wondered why I lost my sense of ‘knowing’. It puzzles me at times. I think, because I was always such a loner, I felt one of the reasons why I was both a loner and lonely was I did see too much in to people. I was so picky about people and had so little tolerance for them that I had a hard tome having superficial relationships with them. I think then, some part of me decided to just stop seeing just to see if maybe that is how people have so many friends. I mean, so many times, I would see the entourage around narcs and people who are fundamentally a lie or selfish, and would wonder, why do they go along with it? Why can’t they see nothing is there? But then I would feel left out, like the one who was so judgemental cause surely, if they all could see the same things I saw and managed to hang around those people, then maybe I needed to stop ‘seeing’ and judgeing so much?

Can you answer this HG? Can you tell when people know you are full of it and keep their distance? Why are people so willing to not see the fully seeable? I still want a relationship of some sort with my narc, but that’s pure emotion and deep need because I can’t unsee what I saw. So it creates a constant tension and conflict in me that is very hard to shake and this isn’t CD anymore, either. Why aren’t I like those who don’t see or who might, but are willing to kiss a$$ or milk the narc for what they can or…… ? Am I that different than them in the end? I mean, they think he is just an egomaniac, vain and selish. I know it’s much, much more than that as those words seem so ‘acceptible’ in a way. So in th end, am I really that different than those others who don’t see?

Yes it would because he knows it is coming from you. There is no fuel provided but it is a response all the same and it may not wound him as he is unlikely to recognise that he is that which is written about here.

HG
To ” know” what to do its easy
but to actually do it, it” is not.”
You know that.
And ..
Que’ sera’ .. sera’..
there is a power that is stronger than the “it is not”..
that IS the only hope for the victims.

Thank you, amsodone. I’ve been through 22 years with him. The text startled me into replying. It was autopilot bc of concern. This morning he texted that he fell asleep and so sorry. I didn’t respond and I want to say I never will. Another layer of concrete is added.

1J1,
Dang it. I feel for you. You’re back in the wash cycle. Then Rinse. Then DO NOT REPEAT.

Everyone should consult HG if you feel the suction coming on.

I know that suck-tion can feel oh sooooo good, but leaves a hickey. Next thing you know, you’re intimately marked again and poof! you’re intimates are back in the wash and the cycle has started, drowning in the water, being swished around and then spin cycle and end up lying there a wet shredded mess. Should have put that intimate in a laundry bag for protection.

Thank you ABB. Yes. No repeat. The message was concerning. The fact that he fell asleep was another indication that he didn’t change. I just kept saying I hope so and so is ok. He will not get my intimacy. No one will.

1jaded1 5 steps ahead, 3 steps back, you are still ahead by 2 steps that is what matters.
Better defenses built, with HGs work those walls will be impenetrable one day, you know this thou.
Hope your weekend is wonderful!

I’ ve just switched off my mobile and peacefully thinking i would soon enter dream- sleepy-land.. when suddenly i had an amusing thought about you HG, and i had to be back and write it:
In your meritoriuos endeavour to
“save” others from the eternal painful web of Narcs.. you might be availing access to your own salvation by the God of Allknowing …
Goodnight
Ohhhhh.. what a happy soul i am..

Thank you for reminding me why I avoid this vile creature. She dons the childlike face with those sweetly innocent looks and it sometimes makes me forget that this is what’s really going on underneath You are making No Contact much easier. Cheers.

A wiseman once cautioned a lie is basically an entertainment device.
Not everyone shares your sense of humor.
When viewing from one level, it’s a joke, from another a test, another a defense mechanism, another a primary.
Sometimes we are who we say we are.

Yes. Mine use lies for entertainment. It is like a game. And it is a way to reassure themselves of their intelligence and superiority by how they can dance around others without being caught out. It does take a lot of intelligence and memory to maintain complicated lies.

My favorite thing he would say when blatantly caught which was only a few times: “It doesn’t feel like I’m lying.” Um, therefor it doesn’t count as a lie? Got it. 😉The other times, when there was no proof but of course he was lying, he would just rage defending himself until I was the one in tears apologizing. I never believed him no matter what the rage or if I aplologized. It just reinforced that I needed out. Hence, the 2 new jobs that fell into my lap (luck or angels) and relocated to before he knew. Before I knew what no contact was….guess it was survival instinct bc it never occurred to me not to take them. I was a mess inside but I left. Both moves during silent treatments….one while he was away for a week of work in London and it took him 3 weeks of hoovering upon his return to realize I had moved to a different city. So, I occassionally wonder, however far fetched, if you’ve met him and get some of your material from him bc so much of your writings are verbatim my experience.

When the few narcs I still interact with periodically begin spinning their web of bullshit I listen for a few beats then cut into it by saying” What’s the bottom line here?” This drives them insane. Can you tell me why, HG?

Thank you. The problem for me is they leave no boring detail unuttered, no long uninteresting story unedited. That ignites my fury because should I try to share something of my own in the same manner they would have hijacked the conversation immediately. They remind me very much of three year olds in preschool who are still thinking that whatever pours out of their mouth must be listened to with rapt attention.

I noticed an “odd” communication style with my narc as well early on, but I didn’t process it (classic). He would talk, then I would talk, but there was no quick (for lack of better word) back and forth dialogue or exchange. I forgot about that! For sure that is developmentally odd and perhaps immature although am unsure if ego stage of 3 yr old is connected. Maybe though

I believe that the lies are what causes the most crippling destruction in the victim. I mostly knew when I was being mind-f×!d….It was a million lies. The cruel, despicable, dirty mean deceipt is in my opinion by far the most heinous crime perpetrated on me. Everything was a lie -everything absolutely everything was a lie. BUT. it was the million lies that ultimately exposed this despicable human being. I didn’t know what gaslighting was, sweet or mean, triangulation etc. etc. But I sure knew what lies were. It will be the lies that power me to own NO CONTACT for life.

Yup. It was the lies that have destroyed me. Fake suicide attempt, faked MH issues, faked caring about his kids, all to cover up pathological infidelity and theft. My Narc Allister is still doing it too. Only this time with an unsuspecting group of “friends” he acquired as he was hovering me away.

You got it! It is all about the “unsuspecting”. It takes a very tough confident individual to fight off the MASK, to fight off the insidious abuse and expose them. Most…other than us intimate partners and even then most partners never figure it out completely, hence the monster grows! These abusers know full well what they are doing. They abuse everyone in their path, their children, friends, neighbors etc. etc.. They use everyone for a purpose to tear apart one good human being at a time. The purpose being to protect their FAKE SELF. The unsuspecting or those who have limited exposure to the abuser may only feel an occasional “gut churn” and pass it off. They also ignore the lies as most of us do. We typically don’t call out people in lies. WE THE VICTIMS, however do. The unsuspecting will be devoured and beware that they too may devour us – the real victims.

i am in the process of the empathic supernova, having cut most ties cause of kids) ties with my wife ( a mid- range is what i guess ). she is currently living with her secondary source, but he does not seem to bring the desired fuel quality to the game. she apparently told him one crazy story about a kid getting killed by a car that was witnessed by her. a lie of course. the reason for telling the poor dude that story was to just see his shocked reaction on his face. not too long ago i would have reacted shocked as well that she would even tell such a story. this time i was rather amused. i pity the secondary- not quite- primary source. i really do. the kid does not realise what hit him. hoovering of course is part of the game, i guess my fuel quality is/ has been pretty good. ha, no more.
thanks for your knowledge hg tudor. helped quite a bit

Because they are all trafficking with the same demons….so of course they will all have the same character traits….malevolent. Why is it so hard to fathom this? What I don’t get is how attracted I feel to their evil…guess that’s why it’s called “enchanting”…..HG is amazing in how he just spills the beans….guess even liars will tell the truth if it benefits them from doing so…I think HG is a literary genuis because I’ve never read any works that compare to his in the way he writes….is he a mere human? This piece was magnificent with all the L…I…E….words/phrases used….

I totally agree Blayze, the attraction to these people cannot be intellectualized cause it doesn’t make sense. This is a daily battle for me.
I was hoovered last weekend (said he missed me). I thought about responding “what exactly do you miss”or “you don’t miss me, you miss everything I (this appliance) did for you”. Then, I wondered about what I missed about him and could not really come up with anything. Nothing gold can stay. The point is I would have caved if not for the awareness, education and understanding I now have, provided by HG. This site is also helpful to me because I get reminded I’m not the only dumb ass empath.
Yes, HG’s writing style is highly engaging, he is brilliant and he is hilarious. He has a gift. He is the ultimate antihero.
I have to say I like the guy. And it’s easy to see how he has been able to inflict the damage he has. Highly reinforced, highly fueled. The “good doctors” (as HG refers to them) are likely perplexed at all of this. And really, why would he change?

A completely different, almost dichotomous mindset, yet constructs of the Narc-narc-empath levels (you aptly articulated the greater to lesser..and levels of empath) are along that continuum. And you are welcome, true and also valid.
Perhaps you could create a visual representation or table of the Narc matrix in one of your future books? I see concentric spheres of influence.
See…I was such a good appliance and he is and will always remain a total bassfish. And now, back to the fortress!

I find that astounding too and I wonder if it’s because mommies everywhere have similar reactions to what mommie’s child does and so every budding narc gets to build up his/her narc repertoire of how to trigger these reactions and manipulate mommie to get what he/she wants.

Yes!! Lie after lie after lie, it must be exhausting. The more I’m not in contact, the more I can see ALL his lies. He says sorry(which I know he doesn’t mean) like the average person says hello. So, he has hoovered after a 2 week silent treatment. There are problems in paradise with his primary. So, the golden period must be over is that correct? And did he unshelf me because he’s getting ready to discard her or just to see if I would give him some fuel??

Masters at answering questions without answering questions. When you try to pin them on the issue, you are making up things, they didn’t mean that, change the subject, blame shift, ignore you…take your pick. No rhyme or reason. You will be better off banging your head on a brick wall. Why? Because you cannot control how another person acts. You can only control yourself. You choose how you allow others to treat you. Walk away. That’s the win.