Interview with Alma and Tom Long, 1989

THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HI STORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Mr. & Mrs. Tom Long
DATE: ... 5, 1989
PLACE: Paducah, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: Hardy and Sarah Cannon
HC: ••• this is an interview of Mr. and Mrs. Long by Hardy
and Sarah Cannon. We're going to talk about the earlier
history of Paducah and the surrounding areas.
SC: Mrs. Long, how long have you lived in Paducah?
MRS.L: My family moved into Paducah in 1917 from the
neighboring King County where my father was a rancher and
we moved into Paducah for the schools.
SC: Well now, did you have a summer house or a •.• what
do you call those houses?
HC: Sunday houses.
SC: Sunday house.
MRS.L No, my father bought a nice two-story home in
Paducah for us and we lived here until I was a junior in
high school and they moved back to the ranch.
SC: And you finished high school at the ranch? Or did
you finish
MRS.L: No, I finished high school in Abilene where my older
brother and sister were in college .
SC: In college. Where did they go to college?
MRS.L: Hardin-Simmons.
SC: Hardin-S immons. And •. . Mr . Long, how long have you
lived in Paducah?
LONG 2
MR.L: We moved here in 1951. But I had lived fifty years
in King County before we moved up here.
MRS.L: But Paducah was the town. Now King County doesn't
have a town except Guthrie which was just ••• almost just
ranching quarters. So because although Tom didn't move into
this house until '52 this has been his home town since he
was a boy.
SC: Since he was a boy also. Now ••• is Guthrie the
county seat •••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: ••. of that county? And Paducah is the county seat
of this county?
MRS.L: Right.
SC: How did Paducah ge t it's name? Do you know that?
MRS.L: Someone named it for Paducah , Kentucky. And we don't
know who or why. Some settler must have had relatives or
something ••••
MR.L: ••. Paducah, Kentucky, sometime before he came to
this area .
SC : And so Paducah, Kentucky, is the original Paducah.
MR.L: Right.
HC: Let me ask you this. Was Guthrie, Texas, named for
Guthrie, Oklahoma?
MRS.L: No, I imagine Guthrie, Texas, might be older than
that.
HC: Older than Guthrie , Oklahoma? (laughter)
LONG
MRS.L: Although my father came there in 1886. As a young
boy and Tom's father came in .•• what year?
MR.L: About two years later.
SC: And that was 18 •• what?
MRS.L: 1886.
3
SC: 1886. They were in Guthrie and it was a community at
that time . Well now, •••
HC: May I ask where they came from?
MRS.L: Our family?
HC: Yes.
MRS.L: Well, my family , the Gibsons, moved up from Young
County , Texas, which is •••• And Tom's family moved in from
MR.L: Various, different places .
MRS.L: Well, Clay County wasn't it?
MR.L:
SC:
MR.L:
SC:
~1R. L :
Clay County .
Clay Count y •••.• came to Travis County 1849 •.•
1849.
And they lived different places all around.
MRS.L: Kept moving west.
HC: Well now , what was the attraction? Was it cattle or
farming?
MRS.L: Cattle. No farming.
HC: No farming.
SC : No farming at that time at all.
MRS.L: No farming. No farming.
LONG 4
SC: Well now, did they have sheep and goats here •.•
MRS.L: No.
SC: ••• or was it just cattle?
MRS.L: Cattle.
SC: What about barbed wire fences? Have you heard any
stories about that?
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: (laughter) Tell that, please.
MR.L: It was drift fence whenever we came here ••• drift
fence ••• somewhere up at the edge of the plains come on
down through here .•• that was the purpose of the fence was
to hold ••• hold cattle to keep them from drifting in bad
weather, see.
HC: Back to the south.
MR.L: Yes. You know everything'd go with the wind .•• open
so they could .•• all livestock would ••• drift.
SC: Uh, did the ••• when your family first ••• the early
stories of Paducah ••• did you hear anybody comment on
the brick streets, there are two or three ••• we have
noticed.
MR.L:
SC : Brick streets.
MRS.L: Yes. Well, those were built in the late twenties
when Paducah was a very prosperous town of about ••• I
don't know how many were in Paducah at that time, probably
three thousand and over ten thousand in the whole county.
And they paved three streets in brick, in the twenties, but
I don't know just exactly the year.
LONG 5
SC: Well now this house
MRS.L: Our street out here is brick.
SC: Is brick. Now this house was built in ?
MRS. L: 1910.
SC : In 1910. And that street was already bricked when
this • • • ?
MRS.L: No. Not until the twenties.
SC: Oh, twenties, uh huh, in 1910.
HC: Well now, was there a brick factory located •••
MRS.L: No.
SC: Well, where •••
HC: ..• here? Hauled them by rail?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: By rail?
MRS.L: The train came in to Paducah in 1910 ••. 1909 ••.
and the name of it was Quanah, Acme and Pacific. Began over
here at Quanah and started west they hoped to reach the
Pacific but they reached Roaring Springs, Joe. (laughter)
SC: Got to Roaring Springs and that was it.
MRS.L: These are my parents. I was just showing ••• just
happened to open that to them.
SC: Uh, what did your father do Mrs. Long?
MRS.L: Rancher.
SC: He was a rancher.
MRS.L: Farmer. Well, at first a rancher and then as the
country developed t hey began putting in land to farm cotton
and feed.
LONG 6
SC: And now, you and your sister both taught school?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Could you tell me a little about the schools? The
early ••• the first years that you taught for example? Can
you tell me something about that?
MRS.L: Well, I'll tell you can go back a little farther
than that when we moved into town in 1917 I was in the
second grade, I had two brothers in high school and my
sister was ready for high school. And we all went in one
building ••• that's .•• and I don't remember how many
pupils but I know the year my oldest brother graduated in
1921 there was 14 in the class.
SC: In the graduating class?
MRS.L: Yes. And I want to tell you about the quality of the
school then. Well, my sister then finished in the next
year, '22. We were not affiliated with the state at that
time, we didn't have credits ••• credentials •.•
SC: Yes.
MRS.L: ••• to transfer to college and they went to college,
took entrance examinations and passed with flying colors
because at that time they taught Latin, they taught
Physics, they taught both Geometries, we had a very solid
courses •••
SC: Curriculum. Urn huh.
MRS.L: ••• course of study.
SC: How neat and they went into ••.
MRS.L: That's •••.
LONG 7
SC: Hardin-Simmons then, .••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: .•• in the early twenties.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: With
MRS.L: By taking
SC: By taking the
MRS.L:
SC:
school.
... examinations, uh huh.
entrance exams. Now that•s a credit to the
MRS.L: Well, r•m ••• in the very early day ahead of my
family time, Tom, you remember the families like Dr.
Alexander and the Graves, different families were sending
their children to big universities in the east.
SC: From this school?
MRS.L: From Paducah.
SC: From Paducah, Texas.
MRS.L: So we had a higher quality of people that settled
Paducah.
SC: Uh huh. Now I have heard some stories about Paducah
that it was a wild and wooly west town, west Texas town, is
that true, do you think?
MRS.L: There was •••
MR.L: They had several killings.
SC: Killings. Alright. Now was that shootings, like
ballroom shootings or what?
MR.L:
MRS.L: Feud types.
LONG 8
MR.L: Yes.
SC: Feud.
MRS.L: Feud types not ballroom.
HC: Was it a family type feud?
MRS.L: Yes, I guess you'd say it was and really we got our
reputation from just this one feud, didn't we?
MR.L: I would say yes, the biggest part anyway.
SC: Well, was it a big ••. two big families ••• is that
why it was so well known or .•. ?
MRS.L: Well, one was very wealthy man that was kinda
ostracised by his family to Cottle County and he had a
difference with one of the local citizens and really it
started from that.
SC: And that's how it started.
MRS.L: I know ••. we were •.. I know my mother wouldn't let
us go to school .•• let us go to town after school because
she was afraid there might be shooting on the street.
(laughter)
SC: Did ••. was there a hospital or a doctor's office
here in the early years?
MR.L: Well, .••• there were doctors here previous to this
but they built a hospital in 1929.
SC: In '29 a hospital.
MR.L: Yes, yes.
MRS.L: But we always had two to three doctors in the early
days.
SC: Uh huh.
LONG 9
MR.L: They used to have their offices in buildings down
here around the square.
SC: Uh huh. Well now, did they .•• did they go to the
••• the people's ••• the patient's homes?
MRS.L: Yes. Yes.
SC: Do you remember any of the early doctors, did they
travel by cars at that time or did they go in a buggy?
MRS.L: Well, the ones that I remember were cars, but Tom
remembers, he's a little older, •••
MR.L: Yeah. (laughter) They went in buggies, horseback or
what have you.
SC: Uh huh.
MR.L: But that was before the cars.
SC: Right. Did they carry a black bag? •••
MR.L: Oh, yes.
SC: ••• That's the stories you know that you hear •.•
little black bags
MRS.L: They mixed their medicines while they were there.
SC: ••• while they were there and you can remember that.
Now when you started to teach ••. did you .•• you went to
Hardin-Simmons?
MRS.L: No, I went to West Texas State.
SC: That's at Canyon?
MRS.L: Uh huh.
SC: Alright. Did you get a Teaching Certificate or what
type ••• ?
MRS.L: Well, the first year I taught after I finished high
LONG 10
MRS.L: school I took the examination and got a certificate
and taught one year at the ••• the home country school.
SC: And where was that?
MRS.L: That was in King County.
SC: In King County. Alright. And that was a little ••.
one room school?
MRS.L: No, we had three teachers in there. Three teachers
in the school and I just taught there one year···
SC: And you .•••
MRS.L: I just taught there one year.
SC: One year. You were just out of high school. Alright.
And who did you live with? Did you live ••. ?
MRS.L: I lived at home.
SC: At home then. And taught every day. Tell me a little
about the schoolroom.
MRS.L: Well, a country schoolroom, the building had three
rooms in it and what we called the big room had a stage
that they would draw a curtain across and that was for the
high school students and my room was just a ordinary
classroom with ••• we did have ••• that was before we had
gas out in the country ••• and we had a coal stove in the
corner and a blackboard and the old fashioned desks.
SC: And what grade did you teach?
MRS.L: Well, I taught 4th, 5th and 6th.
SC: And you taught math and reading?
MRS.L: Everything.
SC: Everything. Did you teach penmanship?
LONG 11
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: With a penstaff?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: And they dipped •.• the penstaff?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Do you remember if you used the Palmer method?
MRS.L: We did.
SC: The Palmer. And sent their papers off and they got a
certificate if they could write.
MRS.L: I never could write so they did better than I did.
(laughter.)
SC: Are you left handed?
MRS.L: No. Just didn't write very well. (laughter)
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: And Tom went to the country schools out there.
SC: Where did what school, Tom, did you go to?
MR.L: Well, and Union School that's over in north
of King County.
MRS.L: And the same type school?
MR.L: Oh, yes, more or less, same thing.
MRS.L: And how many schools ••. we'll go back to Cottle
County at one time Cottle County had .•• do you know,
Joe, have you ever looked down the library •••
•• : No, but .• .
MRS.L: ••• at that picture Sybil made of all the schools, I
think about 15 •••
. . .. . •• about 15 or 16 •
LONG 12
SC: 15 or 16 country schools.
MRS.L: Country schools besides our town schools.
SC: And this is Cotter - C-o-t-t-e-r ?
•• : Cottle.
MRS.L: Cottle. Cottle.
SC: C-o-t- .•
MRS.L: C-o-t-t- •••
SC: .•. t-t-1-e. Cottle County and at that time there
were that many country schools and then they consolidated
MRS.L: Began consolidating in the twenties and thirties
and running buses
SC: And all of the schools now in the county are in
Paducah, Texas?
MRS.L: Right. One school.
SC: There are no schools anywhere except right here.
MRS.L: No.
SC: So the children are all brought in.
MRS.L: Yes. The county has ... decreased in population
until there's ••• well, in the thirties they were
graduating about 50 to 60 students and now about 20 to 25.
SC: For the whole county? 20 or 25 for the whole
county?
MRS.L: Yes.
HC: May I ask, what is the main economic stimulus for
this county now? Is it just cotton? Or oil?
MR.L: Cotton, cotton, grain ••• some oil production. But
LONG 13
MR.L: the principle area is ranching. We've got 3 or 4 big
ranches that has interest in this county.
HC: They still rely on the ranches.
MR.L: Oh, yeah.
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: Ranching.
MRS.L: Ranching and farming.
SC: Well now, the farming
MR.L: .... 12 to 14 percent of cultivated area acreage
and the rest of it is in ranch.
HC: The rest of it is in ranch.
MR.L: I wouldn't know •.• this might be 25 percent,
something like that, in cultivation ••• maybe less.
MRS.L. But this house was built with ranch money.
SC: But now, your family did not build the house, you
all bought this after it was built.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: What year? .••
MRS.L: My family lived in a house out west.
SC: Uh huh. And you and your husband bought this
house.
MRS.L: We bought this from the family that built it.
SC: That built it. And what family built this house?
MRS.L: Their name was Barron. Barron. B-a-r-r-o-n.
SC: And they were ranchers.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Uh huh. Is this what you call "dry land farming?"
Or • ••
LONG 14
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: ••• is it ••• Do you have ••. no irrigation?
MR.L:
SC:
We have some irrigation, but principally dry land.
And did the boll weevil, that was a bad thing in
south Texas, that wiped all the cotton farms, did ••••
MR . L:
SC:
MR.L:
SC:
Well, they took their toll here, too.
Took the toll here.
(Laughter) Yeah, they got ••• got ••• (laughter)
Uh ••.
MR.L: No, its some years ••• other years ••• don't amount
to anything much.
SC: So then you still have a problem with that?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: But we noticed a lot of gins along the way. There's
a lot of cotton then in this part of the country?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: And is most of it picked by machinery now?
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: All of it.
MR.L:
SC:
MR.L:
100 percent of it.
All of it. Uh huh.
...
HC: The point we were making is as we were driving up
yesterday was that we thought it was late in the year for
cotton? Now in south Texas what cotton has been raised has
been picked and ••• gone to the gin and the fields have
been plowed
LONG 15
MR.L: Yes, yes.
HC: •.• and as we came up we saw them still hauling
cotton to the gin, so is your season that much different?
' ~
MR.L: Well, yes, in a way, but ••• conditions in the r
individual year sorta govern. Sometimes we get plenty,
pretty early, get it out pretty early, and other times we
might be in February or March get through picking cotton
pulling cotton.
HC: Oh.
SC: Pulling cotton.
HC: Pulling cotton. In other words if there is a freeze
comes it won't hurt it at all.
MR.L: Well, if it's a fre e ze early you see, you'll damage
the boll, it's not fully grown •••
HC: Well, that's early, yes, but I mean later you can
wait until • • • ?
MR.L: No, after it's all killed ••• everything •.• it's
.•. about the only thing to do it just deterioate the grade
instead of being ••• it might be s pots ••• something like
that.
SC: Well, now the rain doesn't damage it?
MR.L: Well, I would say it damages it some, yes.
SC: But it doesn't completely •.•
MR.L: ••• getting into a storm and blowing it out, getting
it on the ground so that it would be a total loss thataway,
otherwise it does have some value ••• doesn't damage it too
much •••
LONG 16
HC: It's not a complete loss of crop? Now, one more
question, ..• most all towns and communities I know of are
built on a source of water. What is the source of water
for Paducah here, is there a river, creek or stream?
MR.L: Well, they've got some pretty good water back out
west of town here, seven, eight miles, call it city wells.
It's drilled wells, it's all.
HC: Well, I know, but what I'm meaning is, is the early,
the early settlers didn't have time to drill wells, they're
looking for a creek··~
MR.L: Well, that's true •••
SC: No creeks. (laughter)
MR.L: That's true here, this county. We have water in •••
over here •.• go back thisaway you'll get into ••• creeks,
big springs that furnish water.
MRS.L: But very few, very few. We just .•• you just wonder,
like I always wondered, how in this world people had the
courage to come here when the water was forty and fifty
miles apart. And •••
SC: How did they get here with animals? I mean they had
to •••
HC: They had to carry their water evidently.
MRS.L: I don't know. They just drove them, one to the
next, I guess. And they built earthen tanks on my father's
place, he didn't have windmills for a long time. They had
tanks. They caught rain water in, that was their source of
water.
LONG 17
HC: They do that in south Texas , too.
MRS.L: And for the house they guttered their house and had
underground cisterns.
SC : Is there a cistern in this ••••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC : . • • a t this house?
MRS.L: Yes , but we cover ed it. But t here was one here .
SC: But there was a c i s tern here.
MRS.L: Because the first wells they drilled in Paducah , the
water was so hard, I mean gyppy, the stock wouldn't drink
it, it was terrible. And every house in town though had a
windmill to water their chickens, their cow , ' cause
everybody had a milk cow , we had a ••• when we moved in
we ••• our house was on the whole block , and there was a
barn and an orchard and a garden p l ot and a windmill and
little runaround we called i t, ' cause my father would ride
in sometimes from the place and have to have a place for
the horse and everybody had a windmill. But my mother had
a cistern that she used entirely for the house . We didn't
have a bathroom.
SC : You called that a 'runaround ' where the horses
s t ayed? Is that what you said?
MRS.L: That's what we called it. I don't know what •••
(laughter) ••.
SC : Is that what your family called it? A 'runaround ' ?
MRS.L: No, that was just in town •
•• : •••• all my life a runaround.
LONG
MRS.L: A town, a little block .•• place for the horse.
MR.L Probably half acre area something like that.
MRS.L: Yeah.
18
SC: And it would be like a fenced in ••• ? Like a •••
MRS.L: Fenced in.
SC: And that was for the horse to run around in?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Is that why it was called that?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: I've never heard that before.
HC: !'ve heard the term, but I didn't know what it was.
MR.L: In other words, he wasn't kept up in a stall, you
know •.•• out ••.•
HC: He could exercise and graze a little bit.
SC: Well now, did you ever ride a horse to school?
MRS.L: No.
SC: No. Did you, Mr.Long, did you ever ride a horse to
school?
MR.L: No. No •••• walked.
MRS.L: I didn't •••
SC: You've always been close enough to •••
MRS.L:
walked.
MR. L:
... I went to a country school only two years and I
out of my house ••. walked ••. cut across •••
straight across fields •••• about 2 miles •••
HC: Alright ••• when you were a youngster walking to
school, did you ever encounter any rattlesnakes?
LONG
MR.L:
MRS .L: No, I didn 't.
MR .L: I guess .•• might have been some, but not a great
lot. There 's t oo much manuevering around, you see,
HC: Yeah.
MRS.L: They're afraid of noise.
HR.L:
HC:
SC:
Snakes •••. protect themselves.
Yeah.
Wel l now •••
MRS.L: Go ing back •••
SC: Pardon me •• •
19
MRS.L: Going back to Paducah to visualize the earl y
Paducah I can kind of describe it the way it looked when I
was a smal l c hi ld . Most .every house had a good bi t of
space around it because the houses were scattered - like
this house had a whol e block .
MR.L: Each and every o ne of t hem more or less pretty well
•••• t hey'd go out here a nd buy a city block .
MRS.L: And that gave them ••••
MR.L: And some of t hem even more than that.
MRS.L : ••• gave them a place because certainly there wa s no
fresh milk or butter brought in, everybody wanted a cow,
everybody wanted their c hi c kens for fresh eggs and so every
home was, mo r e or less, a little truck farm in town , you
see . And as windmi lls were everywhere, as you coul d l ook
over the town and see the windmills, and after the railroad
came in, that's when Paducah boomed, wasn't it?
LONG 20
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: Kind of ••. several men became speculators and began
advertising land here and people coming out and buying land
to farm and that's when it changed from a ranching town to
a farm town.
SC : Uh huh.
MRS.L: Farming community. And the town began to grow.
SC: And do you know what year the railroad came in?
About?
MRS. L : 19 0 9 •
SC: 1909. That's when it stopped being the ranching.
0 0 •
MRS .L: Well, gradually.
sc: ...
MR.L: ••• over a period of time.
MRS.L: Because they began breaking ••• they call it
breaking ••• more land out.
HC: Well now, as we drive around the town, we see quite
a few houses built of rock, is that native stone , or do you
know?
MRS.L: Yes, don't you think that most of these little
houses
SC:
MR.L:
HC:
•• 0
They're rock houses •••
I would think so, yes.
We found some that were built just perfectly square
and then had the bungalow type roof on top of it, •••
MR.L: Yes.
LONG 21
MR.L: Yes.
HC: ••• which I imagine dates back to the, probably the
early 30s or late 20s ••.
MRS.L: Yes.
MR.L: In the 20s .••
HC: ••. and they're built out of a stone, it's different
than the kind of stone we have.
MRS.L: We just call it rock.
MR.L: Just rock, well, it just
MRS.L: And I think it was a cheap made house.
SC: Uh huh. Did Indians ..• were Indians here .•• is
there evidence that there were a lot Indians here at one
time? I mean before .•• did they find Indian artifacts
. . . . ? ~
MRS.L: Oh, yes. Lots of 'em.
MR.L: ••• Indians came to this area here after my father
and her father ••• Quanah Parker .••
MRS.L: ••• visited
MR.L: ... visited here every time.
SC: Quanah Parker visted here.
HR.L: And his people after he died. His people continued
to visit down the 4-6 Ranch, that's the Burnets, you know,
the Burnets leased land from the Indian Reservation over
there, he was well acquainted with 'em, Quanah Parker,
bosom friends.
SC: Okay, now, the Reservation •.• I did not •••
MRS.L: Over in Oklahoma.
LONG
MR.L:
SC:
HC:
SC:
Oh, oh, I see what you're saying.
We're not far from Oklahoma.
Not far from Oklahoma
MRS.L: We're just one county from Oklahoma.
22
SC: Alright, I was thinking though that you meant ••. I
didn't understand you were referring to that Reservation.
MR.L: It is about 45 or 48 miles to where they captured
Cynthia Ann Parker, you see, from the Indians .•. Peace
River
SC: Right ••. Uh huh ••• But now there was a river
there, the question that I'm getting at is if there were
Indians here it seems that there would have had to have
been water.
MRS.L: Well, let me correct you on rivers.
SC: Okay.
MRS.L: You're thinking about a river with water in it.
(laughter) Our rivers are just broad expanse of sand only
when it rains.
MR.L: It drains •.• it drains the water off.
MRS.L: Isn't that right, Joe?
MR.L: That's right. (laughter)
MRS.L: You're thinking, when you say river
HC: We're thinking of something that runs most of the
year.
MRS.L: No. No. Just when it rains.
HC: Just when it rains.
LONG 23
SC: Okay, but (laughter) they still would have to have
water when it didn't rain •• •
MRS.L: When the Indians ••• found ... there were a few
springs along, they knew were they were.
MR.L: Different creeks ••• different creeks had water •••
springs •.•
SC: Alright. Then there are some springs ••• are some
places where the water •••
MRS.L: Scattered.
MR.L: Yes. Scattered.
MRS.L: Very scattered.
SC: Alright.
MRS.L: Very.
HC: Now do you know of any instances in which the
Indians took some cattle off the 6666 Ranch or ••• ?
MRS.L: No , they were big buddies with Mr.Burnet that owned
the 4-6 Ranch.
HC: They didn't bother any of his •••
MRS.L: No.
MR.L: I would think maybe we need to go back a little •••
few years to get into that area where the Indians would
steal horses or cattle or anything they could find.
SC: That would have been before the time we're talking
about now.
MR.L: Yes, yes, I'd say 15 ••. 20 years ••• something like
that.
SC: 20 years.
LONG
MRS.L: Before Paducah was even settled.
SC: Before Paducah was even settled.
MRS.L: And the county was organized in 1892.
SC: 1892.
MRS.L: And Paducah became a little settlement.
24
SC: Now, is there a courthouse, is there a county ..• a
lot of material left over from that time or do you know?
MRS.L: No.
SC: The records have been .•• are not kept.
MR.L: . . . .
MRS.L: Well
-----
MR.L: Our county down in King County seat, courthouse
burned up, you know burned up all that earliest records and
things
MRS.L: But Paducah records may be intact. I suppose they
are.
MR.L:
SC:
I would think so, yeah.
But King County •••
MRS.L: They burned •
SC: ••• burned. That . . .
MR.L: In 1914.
SC: In 1914. Well, I declare, didn't know that. So the
records up to 1914 from King County would be destroyed
probably.
MR.L: Yes.
HC: Well, you see, you can go into the files and your
land transactions and land sales tell you a whole lot about
the area .•••
LONG 25
MRS.L: Yes.
HC: ••• But what amazes me is the number of ranches. I
wasn't aware that the ranches in this area were that big.
Until we came up here. Another thing too, is, it must take
a lot of acreage to run the cattle on because in the years
of drought ••••
MRS.L: Tell him •••
MR.L: Oh, man, it'll take about ••• they figure on about
25 acres per animal unit unless it's extra good country •••
Pitchfork Ranch over here is better ••.
SC: 25
MRS.L: Acres per cow.
SC: acres per cow.
MRS.L: Per animal.
SC: My word. And that's why then they didn't have s heep
and goats? Is that the reason?
MR.L: Well, they just
MRS.L: The cattleman got here first. (laughter)
SC: Okay, that's what I was trying to get at.
(laughter)
MR.L: They didn't get along with the sheep very well.
SC: Alright. That's what I was trying to find out.
MR.L: In fact we have a case here where a rancher killed a
man who was trying to protect a sheepman, one of his
friends from over at ••• County, over here at Kent County,
come up here to help his friend, got into a argument with
a rancher and the man killed him. He was about the 4th or
5th man buried in the cemetery down here.
LONG 26
SC: And that - the 4th or 5th man buried in the ceme tery
here- actually was killed because of the cattleman .•.•
MR.L:
SC:
and the sheepman
goat
MRS.L: But that was the only incident of anybody having
sheep, isn't it?
SC: In this county
MRS.L: That we ever heard of.
MR.L: Yes. Well, there's 2 different people down there but
they're right close together ••• there's a Blackwell family
and a fellow by the name of Garner.
SC: Garner?
MR.L: Yeah.
SC: And he was the goat ••. ?
MR.L: He was the sheepman and the Blackwell's had sheep,
but the man that came over from Kent County to protect ••
help his friend Garner, who was a sheepman , who was having
trouble with the rancher, well, that's the one that got
killed, he's about the 4th or 5th person buried there.
SC: And his name was what?
MR.L: His name was McGee.
SC: McGee. Alright.
HC: That's interesting.
SC: That's very interesting.
MRS.L: Tom, tell them him the size of the 4-6 Ranch.
SC: The 4-6 Ranch.
MR.L: Well, they have 4 different units, adds up to just a
little bit less than a half-million acres.
LONG 27
HC: Half they have that now?
MR.L: Yes. Oh, yes.
HC: Half-million acres.
SC: And now that ••• the man •.•
HC: How would that compare to the King Ranch?
MR.L: Well, the King Ranch at one time was I think over a
million acres, maybe a million and quarter, million and a
half, something like that.
HC: But the King Ranch they've been selling off a lot,
haven't they?
MR.L: Yes, they're selling it, they divided it up.
HC: Yeah.
MRS.L: Well, tell him now, let's get it down where you can
remember, the ••• tell him how big the King County part of
the 4-6 is.
MR.L: Well, they have two-hundred and eight thousand acres
in King County.
MRS.L: And how big out here.
MR.L: About a hundred and forty-five, something like that.
And they bought some more land recently, in King County and
some up here.
MRS.L : Well, we don't know how many
MR.L: But •.• the King County part . . . the additional part
is about 32,000 acres that they've bought recently.
SC: Now the man . . . .
MRS.L: My youngest brother is the manager of all that.
LONG 28
HC: May I ask you, do you have any idea of what the
price of land per acre is now compared to what it used to
be?
MR.L: Well, I know of some land it sold for two and three
dollars an acre in King County.
HC: Now ?
MR.L: Now ...
MRS.L: No! Not now.
HC: But . . .
MR.L: I'm not saying now. (laughter)
Now it's 75 or 100 dollars an acre some it 50
according to the type of land.
HC: I know. That's quite a difference in value.
MR.L: Yes.
SC: Now the man who originally started the .•. what is
it • • • the 6
MRS • L : 4-6 s •
SC: .•• 4-6s Ranch ••. his name?
MR. L: Burnet.
SC: And that's who the county ••• is named for ••• the
••• Burnet County Burnet County? I mean isn't there a
county named that?
MRS.L: Yeah, there's a Burnet County.
MR.L: .•••• south central Texas •••
HC: Yes, that's over by Lake Buchannan.
SC: Uh huh, but is it the same? Is that
MRS.L: No, I wouldn't think so.
...
LONG 29
MR.L: No, no connection.
HC: But there's a town named Burnet.
MRS.L: Yeah, but it's down here
MR.L: Well, it's this Burnet here had property down
there, that's the reason why ••• named the town Burnet.
MRS.L: And the ••• and all of this is still in the Burnet
family and his great-granddaughter owns it now and her name
is Ann Marion.
SC: Ann Marion. And does she love the land like he
did?
MRS.L: Well, she's one of the fify richest women in
America. In the United States.
SC: In the United States.
MRS.L: And she's a very lovable, sweet person that we know
personally and •.. she is the sole owner of all this vast
estate.
SC: Well now, does she have children?
MRS.L: She has one daughter.
SC: Do they live in the same ••• does she ••• same
house?
MRS.L: Oh, she ••• let's see ••• she lives ••• oh, no, she
has a place in Guthrie, but she just comes there
occasionally ••• she has ••• I believe it's seven
establishments that she has and they're all fully staffed,
go to at any time.
SC : But do they have the original house that her ...
that was her great-grandfather that started that?
LONG 30
MRS.L: Well, he built it, but he never lived there himself.
My brother lives there now.
SC: You brother lives in the ••. that's interesting I
didn't know that. Tell me where it is.
MRS.L: Guthrie.
SC: It's in Guthrie, in the city limits.
MRS.L: Yeah.
SC: Or is it ••• ?
MR.L: Did you all come up 83? Did you all come up 83 from
the south?
HC: Yes.
MR.L: Well, out here to the next town ••• down there you
look up on the hill ••• the school's up there and then all
the rest of that property up on the hill is 4-6 Ranch
headquarters.
SC: And that's the headquarters is the •••
MRS.L: The big two story rock house.
HC: I think we saw it.
SC: And that's the house that the man originally built
but he didn't live in it.
MRS.L: No. It was just built as the ranch headquarters.
MR.L: It was built in 1917.
SC: 1917.
HC: Well now, how is important is oil in this area
around here? Is it a ...
MRS.L: Pretty important. (laughter)
MR.L: We go back down to King County for ••• something
LONG
MR.L: over 200 hundred wells that the 4-6 Ranch has on
their property.
31
MRS.L: And Cottle has oi l out in the southeast part of the
county and the most recent is west •••
HC: West.
MRS.L: •.• so oi l and gas has played a pretty good part in
the last 15 years
MR.L: Yeah, something like that.
SC: Then when the oil market hit the bottom it didn't
hurt Paducah particularly?
MRS.L: Well, no. Reduced some incomes of people that had
wells and royalties, but no, as affecting the town, I
wouldn't say it did. What affected Paducah the most .••
let's see ••• the drought of 1950 ••• lets see ••• seven
years, wasn't it Torn? •••
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: ••• well, people had to leave here. And that hurt
our town in the 1950s a nd then as farming became more
expensive, equipment became very, very high, labor became
high, the little farmers just began dropping off like
leaves off the tree and so now it's reduced to just a few
big farmers.
SC: The little farmers sold their •••
MRS.L: Well, or the bank sold them out.
SC: Oh , uh huh.
MRS.L: They just went broke, there wasn't any they could
hold on.
LONG 32
HC: Well, there's no industry that you could pinpoint as
industry in the town itself? There's no factories or
anything like that?
MRS.L: Oh, we've tried to get different things here but no
way. we're too little and our water's not good enough and
HC: Water tastes better than our water.
SC: Well, is the water still gyppy?
MRS.L: The water's good now, we think. Don't you, Joe?
JOE: Yeah.
SC: Well, how did it •••
MR.L: ••• improved it over what it used to be. (laughter)
SC: How did they ••• how did they make it good?
(laughter)
MRS.L: They just drilled different wells in different
locations and got better water. Water's in streams under
the ground •••
SC: Under the ground, yes •.•
HC: we live in the country and we have wells and we have
bad water •••• I mean it's safe to drink but it doesn't
taste good, it's got iron, oil and sulphur in it.
MRS.L: You all live right in San Antonio?
SC: No.
HC: We live out
SC: we live out ... out •••
HC: ••• where the coyotes and rattlesnakes •••
MRS.L: Towards what place?
LONG 33
HC: Well, actually it's towards Pleasanton or Poteet.
MRS.L: Yeah, we've been through there a lot.
HC: Actually we're about half way between the Poteet
Highway and the Pleasanton Highway. We're close
SC: ••• didn't run out of tape I didn't
HC: Well, I asked about the prison that supposedly is to
be built in Childress, will that effect the economy of
• • • ?
MRS.L: Oh, they're hoping so, and they're hoping it will
spill over to Paducah, I don't think it will, but it'll
help Childress.
SC: How far is Childress from Paducah?
MRS.L: Twenty-nine miles. Should be farther, Joe, so
Wal-Mart wouldn't be so close. (laughter)
JOE: That's right. (laughter)
SC: This is a town then that you're not supposed to go
to a bigger town to do your shopping, you're supposed to do
everything in the home town?
MRS.L Well, to ••• we're down to one store, we'll call it
a drygoods store, one; one grocery store, so if people go
do their shopping in Childress and we lose those stores
where would we be, so we don't shop in Childress, we shop
at home.
SC: You shop at home all the time. Now the ••. the
drygoods store, what all do they sell there?
MRS.L: Well, it's a lovely store. Tom's niece owns the
store and it's high class ready-to-wear, for ladies, and
they have men's wear and they have household linens, boots
LONG 34
SC: and Levi's, they don't carry ladies shoes, or they
don't carry piece goods or anything like that.
SC: Uh huh. Arts and crafts ••. there's no place ••. ?
MRS.L: No, that's the variety ••• we do have one variety
store.
SC: One variety store and you do have a place where you
can buy arts and crafts and threads and things like that.
MRS.L: If Moses goes I'll have to leave Paducah, I guess.
SC: You do arts and crafts?
MRS.L: Well, I do sewing and different things. Always
wanting something from the bridal store.
SC: Right. Uh huh . Well, now when you taught you taught
school ...
MRS.L: Here in Paducah. Taught 27 years in Paducah.
SC: In Paducah. 27 years. Alright now, what grade did
you teach here?
MRS.L: I taught English in high school 2 years and then I
taught 2nd grade for 5 years and then the rest of the time
the 5th grade.
SC: Was 5th grade. Now when did you retire?
MRS.L: In 1971.
SC: In '71. And you were involved with the Teacher
Retirement System all the years that you taught? I mean
from the time it started did you pay in from the very
beginning ••• from the very beginning?
MRS.L: Oh, yes. Well, I taught at different times in my
life and so at one time I had drawn out my retirement
LONG 35
MRS.L: because I thought I'd never teach again. And when
our son was a junior in high school, one of the teachers
had to retire or quit and I started substituting for her
and just kind of got back in the groove and taught 13 more
years. Well, part of that time, Tom's a farmer at that
time and we had some bad years and our son was in medical
school, so really it came in very handy.
SC: Uh huh, helped.
MRS.L: And anyway, I ••• paid back, got back in it.
SC: Oh, you paid back ••• well now, that was a smart
thing to do.
MRS.L: You bet.
SC: And your sister now is also a teacher here in
Paducah?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Has she retired now?
MRS.L: Yes. She's older than I am.
SC: Oh, uh huh.
MRS.L: Even •••
SC: Did she teach in elementary school or ••. ?
MRS.L: Taught first grade.
SC: First grade.
MRS.L: She taught almost 50 years but not all of it here.
SC: Oh uh huh.
MR. L: •.• 42 years
SC: ••• did •.• is your son a doctor now?
MRS.L: Yes.
LONG
SC: Where?
MRS.L : In Amarillo, Texas.
SC: In Amarillo.
MRS.L: He's a urologist. And he did his residency in San
Antonio, did his medical school at John Hopkins in
Baltimore.
SC: Yes, so then you are familar with San Antonio.
(laughter)
MRS.L: Yes. Yes.
SC: Yes.
MRS.L: What you want to say, Tom?
36
MR.L: Wanted to say there's 9 children in the family and 5
of them are school teachers.
SC : Five of her .•• of your .••
MR.L: Immediate family, brothers and some of them married
school teachers, so I wouldn't have any idea •.• 400 years
of classroom teaching in family, maybe more.
SC: Sounds like a faculty meeting when you're all
together? (laughter)
MRS.L: They're either ranchers or teachers.
SC: The whole family. And you just had the one child ,
you all just had the one child?
MRS.L: We had the one daughter that we lost this year.
SC: Oh, this year. Did the others ••. the other
sisters and brothers who taught school, did they all finish
at Hardin-Simmons?
MRS.L: No, just 2 of them at Hardin-Simmons.
END OF SIDE l, TAPE I, ABOUT 45 MINUTES.
LONG
SIDE 2 •
. MRS.L: ...• she could say Paducah 's church go i ng down.
SC : Now do they pray before football game s and things
like that? I mean has there been any controve rsy about
that?
MRS.L: No . Not her e.
37
SC : Not he r e. They do pray before the football games?
MRS.L: Don't they still, we don't go a nymore , Joe?
JOE: I don't either. Not since Be tty quit
MR.L: ..• school all over the county when our son was in
school, he was in the band, he didn't play football. Of
course, we had to go along, we went everywhere, wore out a
car. (laughter)
SC : Uh huh. Well, the r e 's been so much controversy •••
MRS.L: ••. I don't think ••• I 'm sure they s till do it .••
I couldn't say though , because we don't go.
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: But I know they can't do what we used to do. I used
to have little devotionals in my room
SC: In the classrooms , yes, yes, I did . Uh huh.
MRS. L: . • • you probably did too, did you teach grade
school?
SC: I taught f i rst grade . Uh huh.
MRS .L: And we would let the Gideon men come every year and
pass out the little Bibles •.•
SC: That' s right. Uh huh.
MRS.L: ••• well, I know they don't get to do that now.
LONG
SC: Do that now. How do the schools ••. how does the
school system compare now with when you were young, it's
not as good , right?
MRS.L: No.
38
SC : Do you what do you think is the cause of that?
Do you think it's the deterioration of the home or what?
MRS.: No, I think it's the fact like when we went through
school, when Tom and I were of school age , we didn't have
minorities, they were just all good ole white families that
were ambi tious for their children and we just didn't have
any minorities, therefore the standards could be kept up in
the school. And now Paducah school, I'm not running down
the faculty, but the Paducah school now is 1/3 black, 1/3
Mexican, and 1/3 white. Well, you can't mix them like that
and teach like you can where you've got a ••• as you know a
room of children that are ready to learn.
SC: So that ••• then that is a breakdown on the home
because they are not quite ready to learn when they come to
school . Alright and so ••• and they haven't had their
culture ... deprived .•• disadvantaged ••• some of the
children are.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: And so that .•• you th ink •.• that
MRS.L: I think that's the root of it. And I think that
there is such an over emphasis on athletics in Paducah. As
in all little towns.
LONG 39
HC: Well, that's also in big towns, too, though we
notice it more in the small town.
MRS.L: Like in basketball season maybe they'll play every
night. Well, you know, when we were growing up to go
somewhere on a school night was unheard of. And now maybe
the families follow the basketball games and go all over
the country. And are out every night.
SC: Now the television, do you ••• what is your opinion
that ••• do you think that it has damaged the young
people of Paducah as much ••• you know, there's a lot of
conversation about that in larger places. You think that
••• do the children here are they ••• television addicted
like the others are?
MRS.L: I'm sure they are, I don't have grandchildren here
or know about them, but I'm sure they are. And I do think
in a way, you know, some people say 'All the children now
know as much as I did when I went to college.' But I do
think that television viewing has damaged a child's
imagination and originality. Where used to, you know,
children exercised their ingenuity by working with their
hands and making something and now if they can't buy
something ••• well, like our little great-grandson, you
never saw such things as he has, little figures that they
pay eight and ten dollars for and he plays with those.
SC: What did you play with when you were a little girl?
Can you remember some of your toys?
MRS.L: Oh, we played dolls and paper dolls and •••
LONG 40
SC: What kind of dolls can you remember? Can you
remember a doll?
MRS.L: Oh, yes, just beautiful dolls, we always got at
Christmas. I'm sorry the woman carne after •• • I had a doll
••• a Roxy Brooks doll collection but Freida carne after it
11:30 today.
SC: Uh, did ••• a long time ago ••• did your family
celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve or on Christmas · ··?
MRS.L: Christmas Day.
SC: Christmas Day. And your family, Mr. Long, did your
family celebrate on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? The
Christmas customs.
MR.L: Well, I believe on Christmas Day.
SC: Christmas Day, too.
MR.L: That is •.•.
MRS.L: ••• Christmas dinner, of course , •••
SC: Can you t hink of anything else •••
MR.L:
MRS.L: Okay.
SC: Can you think of anything else that you would like
to tell me about Paducah that ••• anything ••• the
political ••• aspect of it or anything that you can think
of?
MRS.L: Well, I do think that we were fortunate in our early
settlers o f having so many capable people. And people of
••• education, some of the times people that came to this
country were graduates of Baylor and some of them taught in
LONG 41
MRS.L: Baylor and they brought with them their culture and
they were Baptist leaders and they helped establish the
churches, so we were fortunate in having people of •.• of
culture and background.
SC: That ••• probably then would explain the difference
in the schools then and now. Maybe.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: You see
MRS.L: Well, and I suppose it ••• that could begin at the
State level.
SC: True.
MRS.L: You know they don't require as much because they
give so many electives they can, can't they graduate with a
lot less •.• ?
SC: They have to have, I think, a certain number of
required subjects, but ••• but sometimes they are watered
down, I think. When ••• the first year that you taught you
had ••• that was called some kind of certificate, right? Uh
like a •.•
MRS.L: Yeah, first grade ••• first class •.•
SC: A first class certificate.
MRS.L: Grade ••• I believe it was called a first grade.
SC: A first grade certificate. And then ••• when you
finished college, did you get a permanent teaching
certificate?
MRS.L: Yes, I have a permanent certificate.
SC: A permanent teaching certificate. I did, too, and
LONG 42
SC: then late r on that was changed to professional. And
then I think now, there has t o be ••• there's another
certification.
MRS.L: Yes, ••.
SC : So ••• now the teacher is much better ••• has a lot
more college training. I don't know that she's any better
trained but she has a lot more college training than the
original teachers did. Can you think of anything else,
sir, that you want to add to this?
MR.L: Well, •.• •
I would like to cut back in to the doctors here.
Just for a minute. My brother, I had a brother who had a
. . . . . . . . . . . attack of appendicitis and in fact that
was in 1919 and a Dr.Will McGowan here had a friend , a
surgeon , over at ••.• a Dr.McDaniels, so he called back to
Dr.McDaniels to go out with him and they operated on my
brother on the kitchen table by lamp light.
SC : Well, I declare
HC: And you brother survived?
MR.L: He survived.
SC: Well, did they put him to sleep?
MR.L: I don't think so. They might have. Yeah, I guess
so.
MRS.L: I think they had ether.
MR.L: Yeah, they give him some kind of •••
SC : And what did they do ••• drape the table with sheets
or what?
LONG 43
MR.L: I suppose so. Yeah, some kind of •••
MRS.L: •••• weren't the re, were you?
MR.L: Well, I was there, but weren't in the room.
MRS.L: Yeah.
SC: Uh huh. Well, I declare. Very intere sting.
MRS.L: Isn't that something?
SC: Can you remember any ••. did your mother doctor you
with ••• home remedies • • • ? (laughte r)
MR.L: Oh, yeah, yeah.
SC: Can you think of any of them?
MR.L: Well, just whatever they might have had available at
that time.
MRS.L: Castor oil.
SC: Castor oil. (laughter) What else
. . .. •.•• elixir (laughter)
?
MRS.L: Well, ••• what did she use on poultice on your chest
whe n you had a cold? Tell 'em that.
MR. L: I would say, rnentholatum or something ••• I don't
know just what all .
HC: Did you ever wear assafetida around your neck,
assafetida in a little Bull Durham pouch?
MR.L: No, I don't believe ••• I ••• did.
HC: I did. I had ••• in a Bull Durham pouch you can put
it in a •••
MRS.L: Well, yes • • •
HC: .•• and of course, we didn't have people who didn't
get close to us. (laughter) •.. months before they
could see us.
LONG 44
MRS.L: So that's the reason you didn't catch anything?
HC: I guess that's it, but I mean I remember making
several years without a cold but let the first norther blow
and out come the assafetida, the Bull Durham sack and a
string around the neck.
MRS.L: Now where was that?
HC: That was in south Texas.
MRS.L: Uh huh.
SC: Can you remember any medications or herbs or
anything that your mother used?
MRS.L: Well, we were just very fortunate in that I guess we
had our share of colds but I believe that other than the
doctors coming when there was a new baby that I believe
that he was ••• I believe in the house only twice as we
grew up. My sister ••• my oldest brother had pneumonia and
old Dr.McGowan came and then when we lived here in Paducah
I remember we all had the measles and my sister got
pneumonia.
SC: Well now, did they ••• how did they treat pneumonia
then, do you remember?
MRS.L: They put plasters on their chest, I remember the
name of the medicine even, it was . . . . .
SC: And it was pink and had a distinctive odor.
(laughter)
MRS.L: Spread it on a piece of a old sheet and they put it
over their chest.
SC: And that's the treatment for pneumonia.
LONG 45
MRS.L: For pneumonia. Just keep 'em in bed.
SC: And both of them recovered from that.
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
MR.L: About the same treatment at our house.
SC: Uh huh, you can remember that same type of thing.
MRS.L: I'm sure we had lots of sore throats and colds but
they ••• you know ••• you get well whether you go to the
doctor or not with those.
SC: Well, what did you mother use for a sore throat, do
you remember how she treated a sore ••• ?
MRS.L: Other than like Torn said, rubbed mentholatum or some
of their salves on our throat and probably gargled salt
water or something like that.
MR.L: Sugar on turpentine, something like that •••••
SC: Sugar and what?
MR.L: Turpentine.
SC: Turpentine. And that was for a cough?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: A teaspoonful of sugar with a drop of turpentine?
MR.L: ••••• some in your mouth, not a great lot.
MRS.L: Well, and my father used to make •••
MR.L: •••
MRS.L: ••• yeah, make his ••• well, I don't think they ever
got me to put a glob of rnentholatum in my mouth.
(laughter) I'm quite sure they never did get me to do
that. (laughter) But my father made a cough medicine out
of whiskey and rock candy. But that was just for the
LONG 46
MRS.L: grown-ups. (laughter) I don't think I ever got any
of that. (laughter)
SC: At a time of stress. (laughter)
MR.L: ••• own private use •••
MRS.L: That was his private use.
HC:
SC: And he had lots of coughs. (laughter)
MR.L: You know, talking about that, her grandfather lived
with 'em some, you know, he had him a jug kept his under
the edge o f the bed.
SC: A jug of •••• corn liquor?
MRS.L : Oh, yeah.
MR.L: ••• corn liquor
MRS.L: Oh, it was a bought bottle, of course. No , my father
was a teetotaler, except that he always kept a bottle of
whiskey for this cough medicine, it might last five years,
you know, the bottle, 'cause his father was from Kentucky,
back in the hills where they'd rather make whiskey out of
the corn as to carry it down the mountain, you know. And
.•• uh ••• as Papa grew up, well, he rode a horse to King
County when he was sixteen, but anyway, he was ashamed that
his Dad drank whiskey and he hated whiskey and he was never
tempted to drink with the cowboys 'cause he hated whiskey
as to be used, you know, as a fun thing, but he didn't
object to it for medicine.
SC: But now the grandfather that you were speaking of,
was that your father's father or your mother's • ••
LONG 47
MRS.L: Yes, ••• a fine old man but he just •.. , that was
the way the people did back there, that was just part of
their living.
SC: And he put his under the bed? Put the bottle under
the bed.
MRS.L: Yeah, he'd try to hide it so my mother and daddy
. . . .
SC: (laughter) But I bet everybody knew it was there.
(laughter)
HC: Sort of a family joke. (laughter)
MRS.L: Yeah. (laughter)
SC: Well now, is he buried here in Paducah?
MRS.L: No, he's buried in Crowell.
HC: Well, •••• that's very interesting I can tell you.
MRS.L: Well, I don't know whether we've helped you much or
not.
HC: You have, you've helped a great deal.
SC: At this time we're recording the history of the
house that we're in, we'll have pictures of this. This
house ••• who built this house now again?
MRS.L: This house was built in 1909, the family moved in in
1910, by a rancher named Mr. J.M. Barron. He was a civic
leader and we bought the house in 1951 from the widow.
Mrs.Barron was quite old and had been reduced to dire
poverty and she had lived on the income of renting rooms
upstairs. So you can imagine that the house was very run
down. Stucturally it was very, very good, but needed new
LONG 48
MRS.L: wiring, new plumbing, and completely redecorating
and so we spent a year restoring it and redecorating it,
but actually other than losing one or two doors we didn't
do anything to the house. Although we had to build in
kitchen cabinets, new bathrooms, new bookcases, and every
thing of that sort.
SC: And the open house that you had Sunday here, that
was just for the city ?
MRS.L: Yes, it was a benefit for one of the clubs has a
benefit each year where they ask people to open their
houses and the money is used for a scholarship. So that's
the reason I did it this year, because Tom and I were
dreading the holidays with our daughter gone and really
we did it for ourselves and them too •.••• The homes that
were built from 1900 up through 1910 featured the pressed
metal ceiling and if you'll look in the s lick magazines
their advertising them now to use in the Victorian homes
and if you'll look every ceiling is made to order for the
room - this fits the bay over here and every room - this
room and the one above it has the bay and the living room
has the bay and the ••••
SC: And the ceiling was made for the room itself.
MRS.L: Yes. You can see •••
SC: Now all of this was intact when you got .••
MRS.L: Oh, yes. We didn't do anything to the floors, had
been ••• this parquet they had put in, but I had been
keeping bare floors out at the farm, around the rugs and I
wanted carpet, so we covered all the r est.
LONG
SC: And .•.
MRS.L: See, this is the bay window that matches the one
in the living room.
50
SC: •.• the one downstairs. Uh huh. And then the ceiling
now this ceiling is the original ceiling and it's metal and
made to order f or this room.
MRS.L: Right.
SC: Do you know if that was ••• where was ••• do you
have any idea how it got here? (laughter) Did they bring
it on the train or ••• ?
MRS.L: I don't have any idea. I'm sure it was shipped in.
SC: ... rails ••• I'm sure it was •••
MRS.L: Are you r ead y?
SC: Now this bathroom it was •••
MRS.L: Oh, there were no baths in the house, o f course,
when it was built, . . .
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: .•• this bath was added in the 1920s, was when they
put in bathrooms.
SC: And when you bought this house, you re-did this
bathroom.
MRS.L: Yes, there was a crude bathroom there, but we did it
over and put in new baths •••
SC: Now, the bookshelves you built yourselves, after you
moved in.
MRS.L: Actually, the house was jus t a house. Wasn't
anything in it to embellish it in any way.
LONG 51
MR.L: ..• go on over there a nd one on the ground fl oors
••• due to the fact they had a cookstove down in the
ki t chen and it's just a b rick flue •.• come up t here ••• on
that side
MRS.L: So Tom had t h a t c himney all taken out and windows
put i n.
SC: Uh huh. Well, that was good •••
MRS.L: But we didn't change the plan of the house at all.
We decided this was alright to have an entrance to the
bath through this little •••
SC: Living room ••• little den ••• s itting room I g uess
this was called at that time .
MRS.L: Well, we ••• the children a lways called it the
study . They were supposed to come in here and study.
(laughter)
SC : They did other things.
HC : ' Bout like our ch ildren . (laughter)
SC: Well now, what about the c l ose ts? Were the closets
here?
MRS.L: This c l oset was here .
SC: Now that's unusual, too .
MRS. L : And t here was o ne in Eli zabeth' s room that was here .
But we had t o make the closets in our room.
SC : In the other rooms.
MR.L: •••• in the corner •••.• about this much •.••
MRS.L: And Tom figured out how they could take that molding
down and put it back and it isn't noticeable at al l that we
took some off the ceiling .
LONG 52
SC: Well, it certainly isn't, this is very attractive.
And each pattern appears to be different.
MRS.L: Yes . Most of 'em are. This is a very plain one. And
the kitchen is very plain. But every other room has a
design •• •
SC: A design.
MRS.L: ... to fit the room. Now in Elizabeth's room of
course, there's a
VOICES CUT OUT.
END OF TAPE. SIDE 2. ABOUT 20 MINUTES.

Click tabs to swap between content that is broken into logical sections.

THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
ORAL HI STORY PROGRAM
INTERVIEW WITH: Mr. & Mrs. Tom Long
DATE: ... 5, 1989
PLACE: Paducah, Texas
INTERVIEWERS: Hardy and Sarah Cannon
HC: ••• this is an interview of Mr. and Mrs. Long by Hardy
and Sarah Cannon. We're going to talk about the earlier
history of Paducah and the surrounding areas.
SC: Mrs. Long, how long have you lived in Paducah?
MRS.L: My family moved into Paducah in 1917 from the
neighboring King County where my father was a rancher and
we moved into Paducah for the schools.
SC: Well now, did you have a summer house or a •.• what
do you call those houses?
HC: Sunday houses.
SC: Sunday house.
MRS.L No, my father bought a nice two-story home in
Paducah for us and we lived here until I was a junior in
high school and they moved back to the ranch.
SC: And you finished high school at the ranch? Or did
you finish
MRS.L: No, I finished high school in Abilene where my older
brother and sister were in college .
SC: In college. Where did they go to college?
MRS.L: Hardin-Simmons.
SC: Hardin-S immons. And •. . Mr . Long, how long have you
lived in Paducah?
LONG 2
MR.L: We moved here in 1951. But I had lived fifty years
in King County before we moved up here.
MRS.L: But Paducah was the town. Now King County doesn't
have a town except Guthrie which was just ••• almost just
ranching quarters. So because although Tom didn't move into
this house until '52 this has been his home town since he
was a boy.
SC: Since he was a boy also. Now ••• is Guthrie the
county seat •••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: ••. of that county? And Paducah is the county seat
of this county?
MRS.L: Right.
SC: How did Paducah ge t it's name? Do you know that?
MRS.L: Someone named it for Paducah , Kentucky. And we don't
know who or why. Some settler must have had relatives or
something ••••
MR.L: ••. Paducah, Kentucky, sometime before he came to
this area .
SC : And so Paducah, Kentucky, is the original Paducah.
MR.L: Right.
HC: Let me ask you this. Was Guthrie, Texas, named for
Guthrie, Oklahoma?
MRS.L: No, I imagine Guthrie, Texas, might be older than
that.
HC: Older than Guthrie , Oklahoma? (laughter)
LONG
MRS.L: Although my father came there in 1886. As a young
boy and Tom's father came in .•• what year?
MR.L: About two years later.
SC: And that was 18 •• what?
MRS.L: 1886.
3
SC: 1886. They were in Guthrie and it was a community at
that time . Well now, •••
HC: May I ask where they came from?
MRS.L: Our family?
HC: Yes.
MRS.L: Well, my family , the Gibsons, moved up from Young
County , Texas, which is •••• And Tom's family moved in from
MR.L: Various, different places .
MRS.L: Well, Clay County wasn't it?
MR.L:
SC:
MR.L:
SC:
~1R. L :
Clay County .
Clay Count y •••.• came to Travis County 1849 •.•
1849.
And they lived different places all around.
MRS.L: Kept moving west.
HC: Well now , what was the attraction? Was it cattle or
farming?
MRS.L: Cattle. No farming.
HC: No farming.
SC : No farming at that time at all.
MRS.L: No farming. No farming.
LONG 4
SC: Well now, did they have sheep and goats here •.•
MRS.L: No.
SC: ••• or was it just cattle?
MRS.L: Cattle.
SC: What about barbed wire fences? Have you heard any
stories about that?
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: (laughter) Tell that, please.
MR.L: It was drift fence whenever we came here ••• drift
fence ••• somewhere up at the edge of the plains come on
down through here .•• that was the purpose of the fence was
to hold ••• hold cattle to keep them from drifting in bad
weather, see.
HC: Back to the south.
MR.L: Yes. You know everything'd go with the wind .•• open
so they could .•• all livestock would ••• drift.
SC: Uh, did the ••• when your family first ••• the early
stories of Paducah ••• did you hear anybody comment on
the brick streets, there are two or three ••• we have
noticed.
MR.L:
SC : Brick streets.
MRS.L: Yes. Well, those were built in the late twenties
when Paducah was a very prosperous town of about ••• I
don't know how many were in Paducah at that time, probably
three thousand and over ten thousand in the whole county.
And they paved three streets in brick, in the twenties, but
I don't know just exactly the year.
LONG 5
SC: Well now this house
MRS.L: Our street out here is brick.
SC: Is brick. Now this house was built in ?
MRS. L: 1910.
SC : In 1910. And that street was already bricked when
this • • • ?
MRS.L: No. Not until the twenties.
SC: Oh, twenties, uh huh, in 1910.
HC: Well now, was there a brick factory located •••
MRS.L: No.
SC: Well, where •••
HC: ..• here? Hauled them by rail?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: By rail?
MRS.L: The train came in to Paducah in 1910 ••. 1909 ••.
and the name of it was Quanah, Acme and Pacific. Began over
here at Quanah and started west they hoped to reach the
Pacific but they reached Roaring Springs, Joe. (laughter)
SC: Got to Roaring Springs and that was it.
MRS.L: These are my parents. I was just showing ••• just
happened to open that to them.
SC: Uh, what did your father do Mrs. Long?
MRS.L: Rancher.
SC: He was a rancher.
MRS.L: Farmer. Well, at first a rancher and then as the
country developed t hey began putting in land to farm cotton
and feed.
LONG 6
SC: And now, you and your sister both taught school?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Could you tell me a little about the schools? The
early ••• the first years that you taught for example? Can
you tell me something about that?
MRS.L: Well, I'll tell you can go back a little farther
than that when we moved into town in 1917 I was in the
second grade, I had two brothers in high school and my
sister was ready for high school. And we all went in one
building ••• that's .•• and I don't remember how many
pupils but I know the year my oldest brother graduated in
1921 there was 14 in the class.
SC: In the graduating class?
MRS.L: Yes. And I want to tell you about the quality of the
school then. Well, my sister then finished in the next
year, '22. We were not affiliated with the state at that
time, we didn't have credits ••• credentials •.•
SC: Yes.
MRS.L: ••• to transfer to college and they went to college,
took entrance examinations and passed with flying colors
because at that time they taught Latin, they taught
Physics, they taught both Geometries, we had a very solid
courses •••
SC: Curriculum. Urn huh.
MRS.L: ••• course of study.
SC: How neat and they went into ••.
MRS.L: That's •••.
LONG 7
SC: Hardin-Simmons then, .••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: .•• in the early twenties.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: With
MRS.L: By taking
SC: By taking the
MRS.L:
SC:
school.
... examinations, uh huh.
entrance exams. Now that•s a credit to the
MRS.L: Well, r•m ••• in the very early day ahead of my
family time, Tom, you remember the families like Dr.
Alexander and the Graves, different families were sending
their children to big universities in the east.
SC: From this school?
MRS.L: From Paducah.
SC: From Paducah, Texas.
MRS.L: So we had a higher quality of people that settled
Paducah.
SC: Uh huh. Now I have heard some stories about Paducah
that it was a wild and wooly west town, west Texas town, is
that true, do you think?
MRS.L: There was •••
MR.L: They had several killings.
SC: Killings. Alright. Now was that shootings, like
ballroom shootings or what?
MR.L:
MRS.L: Feud types.
LONG 8
MR.L: Yes.
SC: Feud.
MRS.L: Feud types not ballroom.
HC: Was it a family type feud?
MRS.L: Yes, I guess you'd say it was and really we got our
reputation from just this one feud, didn't we?
MR.L: I would say yes, the biggest part anyway.
SC: Well, was it a big ••. two big families ••• is that
why it was so well known or .•. ?
MRS.L: Well, one was very wealthy man that was kinda
ostracised by his family to Cottle County and he had a
difference with one of the local citizens and really it
started from that.
SC: And that's how it started.
MRS.L: I know ••. we were •.. I know my mother wouldn't let
us go to school .•• let us go to town after school because
she was afraid there might be shooting on the street.
(laughter)
SC: Did ••. was there a hospital or a doctor's office
here in the early years?
MR.L: Well, .••• there were doctors here previous to this
but they built a hospital in 1929.
SC: In '29 a hospital.
MR.L: Yes, yes.
MRS.L: But we always had two to three doctors in the early
days.
SC: Uh huh.
LONG 9
MR.L: They used to have their offices in buildings down
here around the square.
SC: Uh huh. Well now, did they .•• did they go to the
••• the people's ••• the patient's homes?
MRS.L: Yes. Yes.
SC: Do you remember any of the early doctors, did they
travel by cars at that time or did they go in a buggy?
MRS.L: Well, the ones that I remember were cars, but Tom
remembers, he's a little older, •••
MR.L: Yeah. (laughter) They went in buggies, horseback or
what have you.
SC: Uh huh.
MR.L: But that was before the cars.
SC: Right. Did they carry a black bag? •••
MR.L: Oh, yes.
SC: ••• That's the stories you know that you hear •.•
little black bags
MRS.L: They mixed their medicines while they were there.
SC: ••• while they were there and you can remember that.
Now when you started to teach ••. did you .•• you went to
Hardin-Simmons?
MRS.L: No, I went to West Texas State.
SC: That's at Canyon?
MRS.L: Uh huh.
SC: Alright. Did you get a Teaching Certificate or what
type ••• ?
MRS.L: Well, the first year I taught after I finished high
LONG 10
MRS.L: school I took the examination and got a certificate
and taught one year at the ••• the home country school.
SC: And where was that?
MRS.L: That was in King County.
SC: In King County. Alright. And that was a little ••.
one room school?
MRS.L: No, we had three teachers in there. Three teachers
in the school and I just taught there one year···
SC: And you .•••
MRS.L: I just taught there one year.
SC: One year. You were just out of high school. Alright.
And who did you live with? Did you live ••. ?
MRS.L: I lived at home.
SC: At home then. And taught every day. Tell me a little
about the schoolroom.
MRS.L: Well, a country schoolroom, the building had three
rooms in it and what we called the big room had a stage
that they would draw a curtain across and that was for the
high school students and my room was just a ordinary
classroom with ••• we did have ••• that was before we had
gas out in the country ••• and we had a coal stove in the
corner and a blackboard and the old fashioned desks.
SC: And what grade did you teach?
MRS.L: Well, I taught 4th, 5th and 6th.
SC: And you taught math and reading?
MRS.L: Everything.
SC: Everything. Did you teach penmanship?
LONG 11
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: With a penstaff?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: And they dipped •.• the penstaff?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Do you remember if you used the Palmer method?
MRS.L: We did.
SC: The Palmer. And sent their papers off and they got a
certificate if they could write.
MRS.L: I never could write so they did better than I did.
(laughter.)
SC: Are you left handed?
MRS.L: No. Just didn't write very well. (laughter)
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: And Tom went to the country schools out there.
SC: Where did what school, Tom, did you go to?
MR.L: Well, and Union School that's over in north
of King County.
MRS.L: And the same type school?
MR.L: Oh, yes, more or less, same thing.
MRS.L: And how many schools ••. we'll go back to Cottle
County at one time Cottle County had .•• do you know,
Joe, have you ever looked down the library •••
•• : No, but .• .
MRS.L: ••• at that picture Sybil made of all the schools, I
think about 15 •••
. . .. . •• about 15 or 16 •
LONG 12
SC: 15 or 16 country schools.
MRS.L: Country schools besides our town schools.
SC: And this is Cotter - C-o-t-t-e-r ?
•• : Cottle.
MRS.L: Cottle. Cottle.
SC: C-o-t- .•
MRS.L: C-o-t-t- •••
SC: .•. t-t-1-e. Cottle County and at that time there
were that many country schools and then they consolidated
MRS.L: Began consolidating in the twenties and thirties
and running buses
SC: And all of the schools now in the county are in
Paducah, Texas?
MRS.L: Right. One school.
SC: There are no schools anywhere except right here.
MRS.L: No.
SC: So the children are all brought in.
MRS.L: Yes. The county has ... decreased in population
until there's ••• well, in the thirties they were
graduating about 50 to 60 students and now about 20 to 25.
SC: For the whole county? 20 or 25 for the whole
county?
MRS.L: Yes.
HC: May I ask, what is the main economic stimulus for
this county now? Is it just cotton? Or oil?
MR.L: Cotton, cotton, grain ••• some oil production. But
LONG 13
MR.L: the principle area is ranching. We've got 3 or 4 big
ranches that has interest in this county.
HC: They still rely on the ranches.
MR.L: Oh, yeah.
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
SC: Ranching.
MRS.L: Ranching and farming.
SC: Well now, the farming
MR.L: .... 12 to 14 percent of cultivated area acreage
and the rest of it is in ranch.
HC: The rest of it is in ranch.
MR.L: I wouldn't know •.• this might be 25 percent,
something like that, in cultivation ••• maybe less.
MRS.L. But this house was built with ranch money.
SC: But now, your family did not build the house, you
all bought this after it was built.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: What year? .••
MRS.L: My family lived in a house out west.
SC: Uh huh. And you and your husband bought this
house.
MRS.L: We bought this from the family that built it.
SC: That built it. And what family built this house?
MRS.L: Their name was Barron. Barron. B-a-r-r-o-n.
SC: And they were ranchers.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Uh huh. Is this what you call "dry land farming?"
Or • ••
LONG 14
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: ••• is it ••• Do you have ••. no irrigation?
MR.L:
SC:
We have some irrigation, but principally dry land.
And did the boll weevil, that was a bad thing in
south Texas, that wiped all the cotton farms, did ••••
MR . L:
SC:
MR.L:
SC:
Well, they took their toll here, too.
Took the toll here.
(Laughter) Yeah, they got ••• got ••• (laughter)
Uh ••.
MR.L: No, its some years ••• other years ••• don't amount
to anything much.
SC: So then you still have a problem with that?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: But we noticed a lot of gins along the way. There's
a lot of cotton then in this part of the country?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: And is most of it picked by machinery now?
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: All of it.
MR.L:
SC:
MR.L:
100 percent of it.
All of it. Uh huh.
...
HC: The point we were making is as we were driving up
yesterday was that we thought it was late in the year for
cotton? Now in south Texas what cotton has been raised has
been picked and ••• gone to the gin and the fields have
been plowed
LONG 15
MR.L: Yes, yes.
HC: •.• and as we came up we saw them still hauling
cotton to the gin, so is your season that much different?
' ~
MR.L: Well, yes, in a way, but ••• conditions in the r
individual year sorta govern. Sometimes we get plenty,
pretty early, get it out pretty early, and other times we
might be in February or March get through picking cotton
pulling cotton.
HC: Oh.
SC: Pulling cotton.
HC: Pulling cotton. In other words if there is a freeze
comes it won't hurt it at all.
MR.L: Well, if it's a fre e ze early you see, you'll damage
the boll, it's not fully grown •••
HC: Well, that's early, yes, but I mean later you can
wait until • • • ?
MR.L: No, after it's all killed ••• everything •.• it's
.•. about the only thing to do it just deterioate the grade
instead of being ••• it might be s pots ••• something like
that.
SC: Well, now the rain doesn't damage it?
MR.L: Well, I would say it damages it some, yes.
SC: But it doesn't completely •.•
MR.L: ••• getting into a storm and blowing it out, getting
it on the ground so that it would be a total loss thataway,
otherwise it does have some value ••• doesn't damage it too
much •••
LONG 16
HC: It's not a complete loss of crop? Now, one more
question, ..• most all towns and communities I know of are
built on a source of water. What is the source of water
for Paducah here, is there a river, creek or stream?
MR.L: Well, they've got some pretty good water back out
west of town here, seven, eight miles, call it city wells.
It's drilled wells, it's all.
HC: Well, I know, but what I'm meaning is, is the early,
the early settlers didn't have time to drill wells, they're
looking for a creek··~
MR.L: Well, that's true •••
SC: No creeks. (laughter)
MR.L: That's true here, this county. We have water in •••
over here •.• go back thisaway you'll get into ••• creeks,
big springs that furnish water.
MRS.L: But very few, very few. We just .•• you just wonder,
like I always wondered, how in this world people had the
courage to come here when the water was forty and fifty
miles apart. And •••
SC: How did they get here with animals? I mean they had
to •••
HC: They had to carry their water evidently.
MRS.L: I don't know. They just drove them, one to the
next, I guess. And they built earthen tanks on my father's
place, he didn't have windmills for a long time. They had
tanks. They caught rain water in, that was their source of
water.
LONG 17
HC: They do that in south Texas , too.
MRS.L: And for the house they guttered their house and had
underground cisterns.
SC : Is there a cistern in this ••••
MRS.L: Yes.
SC : . • • a t this house?
MRS.L: Yes , but we cover ed it. But t here was one here .
SC: But there was a c i s tern here.
MRS.L: Because the first wells they drilled in Paducah , the
water was so hard, I mean gyppy, the stock wouldn't drink
it, it was terrible. And every house in town though had a
windmill to water their chickens, their cow , ' cause
everybody had a milk cow , we had a ••• when we moved in
we ••• our house was on the whole block , and there was a
barn and an orchard and a garden p l ot and a windmill and
little runaround we called i t, ' cause my father would ride
in sometimes from the place and have to have a place for
the horse and everybody had a windmill. But my mother had
a cistern that she used entirely for the house . We didn't
have a bathroom.
SC : You called that a 'runaround ' where the horses
s t ayed? Is that what you said?
MRS.L: That's what we called it. I don't know what •••
(laughter) ••.
SC : Is that what your family called it? A 'runaround ' ?
MRS.L: No, that was just in town •
•• : •••• all my life a runaround.
LONG
MRS.L: A town, a little block .•• place for the horse.
MR.L Probably half acre area something like that.
MRS.L: Yeah.
18
SC: And it would be like a fenced in ••• ? Like a •••
MRS.L: Fenced in.
SC: And that was for the horse to run around in?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Is that why it was called that?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: I've never heard that before.
HC: !'ve heard the term, but I didn't know what it was.
MR.L: In other words, he wasn't kept up in a stall, you
know •.•• out ••.•
HC: He could exercise and graze a little bit.
SC: Well now, did you ever ride a horse to school?
MRS.L: No.
SC: No. Did you, Mr.Long, did you ever ride a horse to
school?
MR.L: No. No •••• walked.
MRS.L: I didn't •••
SC: You've always been close enough to •••
MRS.L:
walked.
MR. L:
... I went to a country school only two years and I
out of my house ••. walked ••. cut across •••
straight across fields •••• about 2 miles •••
HC: Alright ••• when you were a youngster walking to
school, did you ever encounter any rattlesnakes?
LONG
MR.L:
MRS .L: No, I didn 't.
MR .L: I guess .•• might have been some, but not a great
lot. There 's t oo much manuevering around, you see,
HC: Yeah.
MRS.L: They're afraid of noise.
HR.L:
HC:
SC:
Snakes •••. protect themselves.
Yeah.
Wel l now •••
MRS.L: Go ing back •••
SC: Pardon me •• •
19
MRS.L: Going back to Paducah to visualize the earl y
Paducah I can kind of describe it the way it looked when I
was a smal l c hi ld . Most .every house had a good bi t of
space around it because the houses were scattered - like
this house had a whol e block .
MR.L: Each and every o ne of t hem more or less pretty well
•••• t hey'd go out here a nd buy a city block .
MRS.L: And that gave them ••••
MR.L: And some of t hem even more than that.
MRS.L : ••• gave them a place because certainly there wa s no
fresh milk or butter brought in, everybody wanted a cow,
everybody wanted their c hi c kens for fresh eggs and so every
home was, mo r e or less, a little truck farm in town , you
see . And as windmi lls were everywhere, as you coul d l ook
over the town and see the windmills, and after the railroad
came in, that's when Paducah boomed, wasn't it?
LONG 20
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: Kind of ••. several men became speculators and began
advertising land here and people coming out and buying land
to farm and that's when it changed from a ranching town to
a farm town.
SC : Uh huh.
MRS.L: Farming community. And the town began to grow.
SC: And do you know what year the railroad came in?
About?
MRS. L : 19 0 9 •
SC: 1909. That's when it stopped being the ranching.
0 0 •
MRS .L: Well, gradually.
sc: ...
MR.L: ••• over a period of time.
MRS.L: Because they began breaking ••• they call it
breaking ••• more land out.
HC: Well now, as we drive around the town, we see quite
a few houses built of rock, is that native stone , or do you
know?
MRS.L: Yes, don't you think that most of these little
houses
SC:
MR.L:
HC:
•• 0
They're rock houses •••
I would think so, yes.
We found some that were built just perfectly square
and then had the bungalow type roof on top of it, •••
MR.L: Yes.
LONG 21
MR.L: Yes.
HC: ••• which I imagine dates back to the, probably the
early 30s or late 20s ••.
MRS.L: Yes.
MR.L: In the 20s .••
HC: ••. and they're built out of a stone, it's different
than the kind of stone we have.
MRS.L: We just call it rock.
MR.L: Just rock, well, it just
MRS.L: And I think it was a cheap made house.
SC: Uh huh. Did Indians ..• were Indians here .•• is
there evidence that there were a lot Indians here at one
time? I mean before .•• did they find Indian artifacts
. . . . ? ~
MRS.L: Oh, yes. Lots of 'em.
MR.L: ••• Indians came to this area here after my father
and her father ••• Quanah Parker .••
MRS.L: ••• visited
MR.L: ... visited here every time.
SC: Quanah Parker visted here.
HR.L: And his people after he died. His people continued
to visit down the 4-6 Ranch, that's the Burnets, you know,
the Burnets leased land from the Indian Reservation over
there, he was well acquainted with 'em, Quanah Parker,
bosom friends.
SC: Okay, now, the Reservation •.• I did not •••
MRS.L: Over in Oklahoma.
LONG
MR.L:
SC:
HC:
SC:
Oh, oh, I see what you're saying.
We're not far from Oklahoma.
Not far from Oklahoma
MRS.L: We're just one county from Oklahoma.
22
SC: Alright, I was thinking though that you meant ••. I
didn't understand you were referring to that Reservation.
MR.L: It is about 45 or 48 miles to where they captured
Cynthia Ann Parker, you see, from the Indians .•. Peace
River
SC: Right ••. Uh huh ••• But now there was a river
there, the question that I'm getting at is if there were
Indians here it seems that there would have had to have
been water.
MRS.L: Well, let me correct you on rivers.
SC: Okay.
MRS.L: You're thinking about a river with water in it.
(laughter) Our rivers are just broad expanse of sand only
when it rains.
MR.L: It drains •.• it drains the water off.
MRS.L: Isn't that right, Joe?
MR.L: That's right. (laughter)
MRS.L: You're thinking, when you say river
HC: We're thinking of something that runs most of the
year.
MRS.L: No. No. Just when it rains.
HC: Just when it rains.
LONG 23
SC: Okay, but (laughter) they still would have to have
water when it didn't rain •• •
MRS.L: When the Indians ••• found ... there were a few
springs along, they knew were they were.
MR.L: Different creeks ••• different creeks had water •••
springs •.•
SC: Alright. Then there are some springs ••• are some
places where the water •••
MRS.L: Scattered.
MR.L: Yes. Scattered.
MRS.L: Very scattered.
SC: Alright.
MRS.L: Very.
HC: Now do you know of any instances in which the
Indians took some cattle off the 6666 Ranch or ••• ?
MRS.L: No , they were big buddies with Mr.Burnet that owned
the 4-6 Ranch.
HC: They didn't bother any of his •••
MRS.L: No.
MR.L: I would think maybe we need to go back a little •••
few years to get into that area where the Indians would
steal horses or cattle or anything they could find.
SC: That would have been before the time we're talking
about now.
MR.L: Yes, yes, I'd say 15 ••. 20 years ••• something like
that.
SC: 20 years.
LONG
MRS.L: Before Paducah was even settled.
SC: Before Paducah was even settled.
MRS.L: And the county was organized in 1892.
SC: 1892.
MRS.L: And Paducah became a little settlement.
24
SC: Now, is there a courthouse, is there a county ..• a
lot of material left over from that time or do you know?
MRS.L: No.
SC: The records have been .•• are not kept.
MR.L: . . . .
MRS.L: Well
-----
MR.L: Our county down in King County seat, courthouse
burned up, you know burned up all that earliest records and
things
MRS.L: But Paducah records may be intact. I suppose they
are.
MR.L:
SC:
I would think so, yeah.
But King County •••
MRS.L: They burned •
SC: ••• burned. That . . .
MR.L: In 1914.
SC: In 1914. Well, I declare, didn't know that. So the
records up to 1914 from King County would be destroyed
probably.
MR.L: Yes.
HC: Well, you see, you can go into the files and your
land transactions and land sales tell you a whole lot about
the area .•••
LONG 25
MRS.L: Yes.
HC: ••• But what amazes me is the number of ranches. I
wasn't aware that the ranches in this area were that big.
Until we came up here. Another thing too, is, it must take
a lot of acreage to run the cattle on because in the years
of drought ••••
MRS.L: Tell him •••
MR.L: Oh, man, it'll take about ••• they figure on about
25 acres per animal unit unless it's extra good country •••
Pitchfork Ranch over here is better ••.
SC: 25
MRS.L: Acres per cow.
SC: acres per cow.
MRS.L: Per animal.
SC: My word. And that's why then they didn't have s heep
and goats? Is that the reason?
MR.L: Well, they just
MRS.L: The cattleman got here first. (laughter)
SC: Okay, that's what I was trying to get at.
(laughter)
MR.L: They didn't get along with the sheep very well.
SC: Alright. That's what I was trying to find out.
MR.L: In fact we have a case here where a rancher killed a
man who was trying to protect a sheepman, one of his
friends from over at ••• County, over here at Kent County,
come up here to help his friend, got into a argument with
a rancher and the man killed him. He was about the 4th or
5th man buried in the cemetery down here.
LONG 26
SC: And that - the 4th or 5th man buried in the ceme tery
here- actually was killed because of the cattleman .•.•
MR.L:
SC:
and the sheepman
goat
MRS.L: But that was the only incident of anybody having
sheep, isn't it?
SC: In this county
MRS.L: That we ever heard of.
MR.L: Yes. Well, there's 2 different people down there but
they're right close together ••• there's a Blackwell family
and a fellow by the name of Garner.
SC: Garner?
MR.L: Yeah.
SC: And he was the goat ••. ?
MR.L: He was the sheepman and the Blackwell's had sheep,
but the man that came over from Kent County to protect ••
help his friend Garner, who was a sheepman , who was having
trouble with the rancher, well, that's the one that got
killed, he's about the 4th or 5th person buried there.
SC: And his name was what?
MR.L: His name was McGee.
SC: McGee. Alright.
HC: That's interesting.
SC: That's very interesting.
MRS.L: Tom, tell them him the size of the 4-6 Ranch.
SC: The 4-6 Ranch.
MR.L: Well, they have 4 different units, adds up to just a
little bit less than a half-million acres.
LONG 27
HC: Half they have that now?
MR.L: Yes. Oh, yes.
HC: Half-million acres.
SC: And now that ••• the man •.•
HC: How would that compare to the King Ranch?
MR.L: Well, the King Ranch at one time was I think over a
million acres, maybe a million and quarter, million and a
half, something like that.
HC: But the King Ranch they've been selling off a lot,
haven't they?
MR.L: Yes, they're selling it, they divided it up.
HC: Yeah.
MRS.L: Well, tell him now, let's get it down where you can
remember, the ••• tell him how big the King County part of
the 4-6 is.
MR.L: Well, they have two-hundred and eight thousand acres
in King County.
MRS.L: And how big out here.
MR.L: About a hundred and forty-five, something like that.
And they bought some more land recently, in King County and
some up here.
MRS.L : Well, we don't know how many
MR.L: But •.• the King County part . . . the additional part
is about 32,000 acres that they've bought recently.
SC: Now the man . . . .
MRS.L: My youngest brother is the manager of all that.
LONG 28
HC: May I ask you, do you have any idea of what the
price of land per acre is now compared to what it used to
be?
MR.L: Well, I know of some land it sold for two and three
dollars an acre in King County.
HC: Now ?
MR.L: Now ...
MRS.L: No! Not now.
HC: But . . .
MR.L: I'm not saying now. (laughter)
Now it's 75 or 100 dollars an acre some it 50
according to the type of land.
HC: I know. That's quite a difference in value.
MR.L: Yes.
SC: Now the man who originally started the .•. what is
it • • • the 6
MRS • L : 4-6 s •
SC: .•• 4-6s Ranch ••. his name?
MR. L: Burnet.
SC: And that's who the county ••• is named for ••• the
••• Burnet County Burnet County? I mean isn't there a
county named that?
MRS.L: Yeah, there's a Burnet County.
MR.L: .•••• south central Texas •••
HC: Yes, that's over by Lake Buchannan.
SC: Uh huh, but is it the same? Is that
MRS.L: No, I wouldn't think so.
...
LONG 29
MR.L: No, no connection.
HC: But there's a town named Burnet.
MRS.L: Yeah, but it's down here
MR.L: Well, it's this Burnet here had property down
there, that's the reason why ••• named the town Burnet.
MRS.L: And the ••• and all of this is still in the Burnet
family and his great-granddaughter owns it now and her name
is Ann Marion.
SC: Ann Marion. And does she love the land like he
did?
MRS.L: Well, she's one of the fify richest women in
America. In the United States.
SC: In the United States.
MRS.L: And she's a very lovable, sweet person that we know
personally and •.. she is the sole owner of all this vast
estate.
SC: Well now, does she have children?
MRS.L: She has one daughter.
SC: Do they live in the same ••• does she ••• same
house?
MRS.L: Oh, she ••• let's see ••• she lives ••• oh, no, she
has a place in Guthrie, but she just comes there
occasionally ••• she has ••• I believe it's seven
establishments that she has and they're all fully staffed,
go to at any time.
SC : But do they have the original house that her ...
that was her great-grandfather that started that?
LONG 30
MRS.L: Well, he built it, but he never lived there himself.
My brother lives there now.
SC: You brother lives in the ••. that's interesting I
didn't know that. Tell me where it is.
MRS.L: Guthrie.
SC: It's in Guthrie, in the city limits.
MRS.L: Yeah.
SC: Or is it ••• ?
MR.L: Did you all come up 83? Did you all come up 83 from
the south?
HC: Yes.
MR.L: Well, out here to the next town ••• down there you
look up on the hill ••• the school's up there and then all
the rest of that property up on the hill is 4-6 Ranch
headquarters.
SC: And that's the headquarters is the •••
MRS.L: The big two story rock house.
HC: I think we saw it.
SC: And that's the house that the man originally built
but he didn't live in it.
MRS.L: No. It was just built as the ranch headquarters.
MR.L: It was built in 1917.
SC: 1917.
HC: Well now, how is important is oil in this area
around here? Is it a ...
MRS.L: Pretty important. (laughter)
MR.L: We go back down to King County for ••• something
LONG
MR.L: over 200 hundred wells that the 4-6 Ranch has on
their property.
31
MRS.L: And Cottle has oi l out in the southeast part of the
county and the most recent is west •••
HC: West.
MRS.L: •.• so oi l and gas has played a pretty good part in
the last 15 years
MR.L: Yeah, something like that.
SC: Then when the oil market hit the bottom it didn't
hurt Paducah particularly?
MRS.L: Well, no. Reduced some incomes of people that had
wells and royalties, but no, as affecting the town, I
wouldn't say it did. What affected Paducah the most .••
let's see ••• the drought of 1950 ••• lets see ••• seven
years, wasn't it Torn? •••
MR.L: Yes.
MRS.L: ••• well, people had to leave here. And that hurt
our town in the 1950s a nd then as farming became more
expensive, equipment became very, very high, labor became
high, the little farmers just began dropping off like
leaves off the tree and so now it's reduced to just a few
big farmers.
SC: The little farmers sold their •••
MRS.L: Well, or the bank sold them out.
SC: Oh , uh huh.
MRS.L: They just went broke, there wasn't any they could
hold on.
LONG 32
HC: Well, there's no industry that you could pinpoint as
industry in the town itself? There's no factories or
anything like that?
MRS.L: Oh, we've tried to get different things here but no
way. we're too little and our water's not good enough and
HC: Water tastes better than our water.
SC: Well, is the water still gyppy?
MRS.L: The water's good now, we think. Don't you, Joe?
JOE: Yeah.
SC: Well, how did it •••
MR.L: ••• improved it over what it used to be. (laughter)
SC: How did they ••• how did they make it good?
(laughter)
MRS.L: They just drilled different wells in different
locations and got better water. Water's in streams under
the ground •••
SC: Under the ground, yes •.•
HC: we live in the country and we have wells and we have
bad water •••• I mean it's safe to drink but it doesn't
taste good, it's got iron, oil and sulphur in it.
MRS.L: You all live right in San Antonio?
SC: No.
HC: We live out
SC: we live out ... out •••
HC: ••• where the coyotes and rattlesnakes •••
MRS.L: Towards what place?
LONG 33
HC: Well, actually it's towards Pleasanton or Poteet.
MRS.L: Yeah, we've been through there a lot.
HC: Actually we're about half way between the Poteet
Highway and the Pleasanton Highway. We're close
SC: ••• didn't run out of tape I didn't
HC: Well, I asked about the prison that supposedly is to
be built in Childress, will that effect the economy of
• • • ?
MRS.L: Oh, they're hoping so, and they're hoping it will
spill over to Paducah, I don't think it will, but it'll
help Childress.
SC: How far is Childress from Paducah?
MRS.L: Twenty-nine miles. Should be farther, Joe, so
Wal-Mart wouldn't be so close. (laughter)
JOE: That's right. (laughter)
SC: This is a town then that you're not supposed to go
to a bigger town to do your shopping, you're supposed to do
everything in the home town?
MRS.L Well, to ••• we're down to one store, we'll call it
a drygoods store, one; one grocery store, so if people go
do their shopping in Childress and we lose those stores
where would we be, so we don't shop in Childress, we shop
at home.
SC: You shop at home all the time. Now the ••. the
drygoods store, what all do they sell there?
MRS.L: Well, it's a lovely store. Tom's niece owns the
store and it's high class ready-to-wear, for ladies, and
they have men's wear and they have household linens, boots
LONG 34
SC: and Levi's, they don't carry ladies shoes, or they
don't carry piece goods or anything like that.
SC: Uh huh. Arts and crafts ••. there's no place ••. ?
MRS.L: No, that's the variety ••• we do have one variety
store.
SC: One variety store and you do have a place where you
can buy arts and crafts and threads and things like that.
MRS.L: If Moses goes I'll have to leave Paducah, I guess.
SC: You do arts and crafts?
MRS.L: Well, I do sewing and different things. Always
wanting something from the bridal store.
SC: Right. Uh huh . Well, now when you taught you taught
school ...
MRS.L: Here in Paducah. Taught 27 years in Paducah.
SC: In Paducah. 27 years. Alright now, what grade did
you teach here?
MRS.L: I taught English in high school 2 years and then I
taught 2nd grade for 5 years and then the rest of the time
the 5th grade.
SC: Was 5th grade. Now when did you retire?
MRS.L: In 1971.
SC: In '71. And you were involved with the Teacher
Retirement System all the years that you taught? I mean
from the time it started did you pay in from the very
beginning ••• from the very beginning?
MRS.L: Oh, yes. Well, I taught at different times in my
life and so at one time I had drawn out my retirement
LONG 35
MRS.L: because I thought I'd never teach again. And when
our son was a junior in high school, one of the teachers
had to retire or quit and I started substituting for her
and just kind of got back in the groove and taught 13 more
years. Well, part of that time, Tom's a farmer at that
time and we had some bad years and our son was in medical
school, so really it came in very handy.
SC: Uh huh, helped.
MRS.L: And anyway, I ••• paid back, got back in it.
SC: Oh, you paid back ••• well now, that was a smart
thing to do.
MRS.L: You bet.
SC: And your sister now is also a teacher here in
Paducah?
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: Has she retired now?
MRS.L: Yes. She's older than I am.
SC: Oh, uh huh.
MRS.L: Even •••
SC: Did she teach in elementary school or ••. ?
MRS.L: Taught first grade.
SC: First grade.
MRS.L: She taught almost 50 years but not all of it here.
SC: Oh uh huh.
MR. L: •.• 42 years
SC: ••• did •.• is your son a doctor now?
MRS.L: Yes.
LONG
SC: Where?
MRS.L : In Amarillo, Texas.
SC: In Amarillo.
MRS.L: He's a urologist. And he did his residency in San
Antonio, did his medical school at John Hopkins in
Baltimore.
SC: Yes, so then you are familar with San Antonio.
(laughter)
MRS.L: Yes. Yes.
SC: Yes.
MRS.L: What you want to say, Tom?
36
MR.L: Wanted to say there's 9 children in the family and 5
of them are school teachers.
SC : Five of her .•• of your .••
MR.L: Immediate family, brothers and some of them married
school teachers, so I wouldn't have any idea •.• 400 years
of classroom teaching in family, maybe more.
SC: Sounds like a faculty meeting when you're all
together? (laughter)
MRS.L: They're either ranchers or teachers.
SC: The whole family. And you just had the one child ,
you all just had the one child?
MRS.L: We had the one daughter that we lost this year.
SC: Oh, this year. Did the others ••. the other
sisters and brothers who taught school, did they all finish
at Hardin-Simmons?
MRS.L: No, just 2 of them at Hardin-Simmons.
END OF SIDE l, TAPE I, ABOUT 45 MINUTES.
LONG
SIDE 2 •
. MRS.L: ...• she could say Paducah 's church go i ng down.
SC : Now do they pray before football game s and things
like that? I mean has there been any controve rsy about
that?
MRS.L: No . Not her e.
37
SC : Not he r e. They do pray before the football games?
MRS.L: Don't they still, we don't go a nymore , Joe?
JOE: I don't either. Not since Be tty quit
MR.L: ..• school all over the county when our son was in
school, he was in the band, he didn't play football. Of
course, we had to go along, we went everywhere, wore out a
car. (laughter)
SC : Uh huh. Well, the r e 's been so much controversy •••
MRS.L: ••. I don't think ••• I 'm sure they s till do it .••
I couldn't say though , because we don't go.
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: But I know they can't do what we used to do. I used
to have little devotionals in my room
SC: In the classrooms , yes, yes, I did . Uh huh.
MRS. L: . • • you probably did too, did you teach grade
school?
SC: I taught f i rst grade . Uh huh.
MRS .L: And we would let the Gideon men come every year and
pass out the little Bibles •.•
SC: That' s right. Uh huh.
MRS.L: ••• well, I know they don't get to do that now.
LONG
SC: Do that now. How do the schools ••. how does the
school system compare now with when you were young, it's
not as good , right?
MRS.L: No.
38
SC : Do you what do you think is the cause of that?
Do you think it's the deterioration of the home or what?
MRS.: No, I think it's the fact like when we went through
school, when Tom and I were of school age , we didn't have
minorities, they were just all good ole white families that
were ambi tious for their children and we just didn't have
any minorities, therefore the standards could be kept up in
the school. And now Paducah school, I'm not running down
the faculty, but the Paducah school now is 1/3 black, 1/3
Mexican, and 1/3 white. Well, you can't mix them like that
and teach like you can where you've got a ••• as you know a
room of children that are ready to learn.
SC: So that ••• then that is a breakdown on the home
because they are not quite ready to learn when they come to
school . Alright and so ••• and they haven't had their
culture ... deprived .•• disadvantaged ••• some of the
children are.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: And so that .•• you th ink •.• that
MRS.L: I think that's the root of it. And I think that
there is such an over emphasis on athletics in Paducah. As
in all little towns.
LONG 39
HC: Well, that's also in big towns, too, though we
notice it more in the small town.
MRS.L: Like in basketball season maybe they'll play every
night. Well, you know, when we were growing up to go
somewhere on a school night was unheard of. And now maybe
the families follow the basketball games and go all over
the country. And are out every night.
SC: Now the television, do you ••• what is your opinion
that ••• do you think that it has damaged the young
people of Paducah as much ••• you know, there's a lot of
conversation about that in larger places. You think that
••• do the children here are they ••• television addicted
like the others are?
MRS.L: I'm sure they are, I don't have grandchildren here
or know about them, but I'm sure they are. And I do think
in a way, you know, some people say 'All the children now
know as much as I did when I went to college.' But I do
think that television viewing has damaged a child's
imagination and originality. Where used to, you know,
children exercised their ingenuity by working with their
hands and making something and now if they can't buy
something ••• well, like our little great-grandson, you
never saw such things as he has, little figures that they
pay eight and ten dollars for and he plays with those.
SC: What did you play with when you were a little girl?
Can you remember some of your toys?
MRS.L: Oh, we played dolls and paper dolls and •••
LONG 40
SC: What kind of dolls can you remember? Can you
remember a doll?
MRS.L: Oh, yes, just beautiful dolls, we always got at
Christmas. I'm sorry the woman carne after •• • I had a doll
••• a Roxy Brooks doll collection but Freida carne after it
11:30 today.
SC: Uh, did ••• a long time ago ••• did your family
celebrate Christmas on Christmas Eve or on Christmas · ··?
MRS.L: Christmas Day.
SC: Christmas Day. And your family, Mr. Long, did your
family celebrate on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? The
Christmas customs.
MR.L: Well, I believe on Christmas Day.
SC: Christmas Day, too.
MR.L: That is •.•.
MRS.L: ••• Christmas dinner, of course , •••
SC: Can you t hink of anything else •••
MR.L:
MRS.L: Okay.
SC: Can you think of anything else that you would like
to tell me about Paducah that ••• anything ••• the
political ••• aspect of it or anything that you can think
of?
MRS.L: Well, I do think that we were fortunate in our early
settlers o f having so many capable people. And people of
••• education, some of the times people that came to this
country were graduates of Baylor and some of them taught in
LONG 41
MRS.L: Baylor and they brought with them their culture and
they were Baptist leaders and they helped establish the
churches, so we were fortunate in having people of •.• of
culture and background.
SC: That ••• probably then would explain the difference
in the schools then and now. Maybe.
MRS.L: Yes.
SC: You see
MRS.L: Well, and I suppose it ••• that could begin at the
State level.
SC: True.
MRS.L: You know they don't require as much because they
give so many electives they can, can't they graduate with a
lot less •.• ?
SC: They have to have, I think, a certain number of
required subjects, but ••• but sometimes they are watered
down, I think. When ••• the first year that you taught you
had ••• that was called some kind of certificate, right? Uh
like a •.•
MRS.L: Yeah, first grade ••• first class •.•
SC: A first class certificate.
MRS.L: Grade ••• I believe it was called a first grade.
SC: A first grade certificate. And then ••• when you
finished college, did you get a permanent teaching
certificate?
MRS.L: Yes, I have a permanent certificate.
SC: A permanent teaching certificate. I did, too, and
LONG 42
SC: then late r on that was changed to professional. And
then I think now, there has t o be ••• there's another
certification.
MRS.L: Yes, ••.
SC : So ••• now the teacher is much better ••• has a lot
more college training. I don't know that she's any better
trained but she has a lot more college training than the
original teachers did. Can you think of anything else,
sir, that you want to add to this?
MR.L: Well, •.• •
I would like to cut back in to the doctors here.
Just for a minute. My brother, I had a brother who had a
. . . . . . . . . . . attack of appendicitis and in fact that
was in 1919 and a Dr.Will McGowan here had a friend , a
surgeon , over at ••.• a Dr.McDaniels, so he called back to
Dr.McDaniels to go out with him and they operated on my
brother on the kitchen table by lamp light.
SC : Well, I declare
HC: And you brother survived?
MR.L: He survived.
SC: Well, did they put him to sleep?
MR.L: I don't think so. They might have. Yeah, I guess
so.
MRS.L: I think they had ether.
MR.L: Yeah, they give him some kind of •••
SC : And what did they do ••• drape the table with sheets
or what?
LONG 43
MR.L: I suppose so. Yeah, some kind of •••
MRS.L: •••• weren't the re, were you?
MR.L: Well, I was there, but weren't in the room.
MRS.L: Yeah.
SC: Uh huh. Well, I declare. Very intere sting.
MRS.L: Isn't that something?
SC: Can you remember any ••. did your mother doctor you
with ••• home remedies • • • ? (laughte r)
MR.L: Oh, yeah, yeah.
SC: Can you think of any of them?
MR.L: Well, just whatever they might have had available at
that time.
MRS.L: Castor oil.
SC: Castor oil. (laughter) What else
. . .. •.•• elixir (laughter)
?
MRS.L: Well, ••• what did she use on poultice on your chest
whe n you had a cold? Tell 'em that.
MR. L: I would say, rnentholatum or something ••• I don't
know just what all .
HC: Did you ever wear assafetida around your neck,
assafetida in a little Bull Durham pouch?
MR.L: No, I don't believe ••• I ••• did.
HC: I did. I had ••• in a Bull Durham pouch you can put
it in a •••
MRS.L: Well, yes • • •
HC: .•• and of course, we didn't have people who didn't
get close to us. (laughter) •.. months before they
could see us.
LONG 44
MRS.L: So that's the reason you didn't catch anything?
HC: I guess that's it, but I mean I remember making
several years without a cold but let the first norther blow
and out come the assafetida, the Bull Durham sack and a
string around the neck.
MRS.L: Now where was that?
HC: That was in south Texas.
MRS.L: Uh huh.
SC: Can you remember any medications or herbs or
anything that your mother used?
MRS.L: Well, we were just very fortunate in that I guess we
had our share of colds but I believe that other than the
doctors coming when there was a new baby that I believe
that he was ••• I believe in the house only twice as we
grew up. My sister ••• my oldest brother had pneumonia and
old Dr.McGowan came and then when we lived here in Paducah
I remember we all had the measles and my sister got
pneumonia.
SC: Well now, did they ••• how did they treat pneumonia
then, do you remember?
MRS.L: They put plasters on their chest, I remember the
name of the medicine even, it was . . . . .
SC: And it was pink and had a distinctive odor.
(laughter)
MRS.L: Spread it on a piece of a old sheet and they put it
over their chest.
SC: And that's the treatment for pneumonia.
LONG 45
MRS.L: For pneumonia. Just keep 'em in bed.
SC: And both of them recovered from that.
MRS.L: Oh, yes.
MR.L: About the same treatment at our house.
SC: Uh huh, you can remember that same type of thing.
MRS.L: I'm sure we had lots of sore throats and colds but
they ••• you know ••• you get well whether you go to the
doctor or not with those.
SC: Well, what did you mother use for a sore throat, do
you remember how she treated a sore ••• ?
MRS.L: Other than like Torn said, rubbed mentholatum or some
of their salves on our throat and probably gargled salt
water or something like that.
MR.L: Sugar on turpentine, something like that •••••
SC: Sugar and what?
MR.L: Turpentine.
SC: Turpentine. And that was for a cough?
MR.L: Yes.
SC: A teaspoonful of sugar with a drop of turpentine?
MR.L: ••••• some in your mouth, not a great lot.
MRS.L: Well, and my father used to make •••
MR.L: •••
MRS.L: ••• yeah, make his ••• well, I don't think they ever
got me to put a glob of rnentholatum in my mouth.
(laughter) I'm quite sure they never did get me to do
that. (laughter) But my father made a cough medicine out
of whiskey and rock candy. But that was just for the
LONG 46
MRS.L: grown-ups. (laughter) I don't think I ever got any
of that. (laughter)
SC: At a time of stress. (laughter)
MR.L: ••• own private use •••
MRS.L: That was his private use.
HC:
SC: And he had lots of coughs. (laughter)
MR.L: You know, talking about that, her grandfather lived
with 'em some, you know, he had him a jug kept his under
the edge o f the bed.
SC: A jug of •••• corn liquor?
MRS.L : Oh, yeah.
MR.L: ••• corn liquor
MRS.L: Oh, it was a bought bottle, of course. No , my father
was a teetotaler, except that he always kept a bottle of
whiskey for this cough medicine, it might last five years,
you know, the bottle, 'cause his father was from Kentucky,
back in the hills where they'd rather make whiskey out of
the corn as to carry it down the mountain, you know. And
.•• uh ••• as Papa grew up, well, he rode a horse to King
County when he was sixteen, but anyway, he was ashamed that
his Dad drank whiskey and he hated whiskey and he was never
tempted to drink with the cowboys 'cause he hated whiskey
as to be used, you know, as a fun thing, but he didn't
object to it for medicine.
SC: But now the grandfather that you were speaking of,
was that your father's father or your mother's • ••
LONG 47
MRS.L: Yes, ••• a fine old man but he just •.. , that was
the way the people did back there, that was just part of
their living.
SC: And he put his under the bed? Put the bottle under
the bed.
MRS.L: Yeah, he'd try to hide it so my mother and daddy
. . . .
SC: (laughter) But I bet everybody knew it was there.
(laughter)
HC: Sort of a family joke. (laughter)
MRS.L: Yeah. (laughter)
SC: Well now, is he buried here in Paducah?
MRS.L: No, he's buried in Crowell.
HC: Well, •••• that's very interesting I can tell you.
MRS.L: Well, I don't know whether we've helped you much or
not.
HC: You have, you've helped a great deal.
SC: At this time we're recording the history of the
house that we're in, we'll have pictures of this. This
house ••• who built this house now again?
MRS.L: This house was built in 1909, the family moved in in
1910, by a rancher named Mr. J.M. Barron. He was a civic
leader and we bought the house in 1951 from the widow.
Mrs.Barron was quite old and had been reduced to dire
poverty and she had lived on the income of renting rooms
upstairs. So you can imagine that the house was very run
down. Stucturally it was very, very good, but needed new
LONG 48
MRS.L: wiring, new plumbing, and completely redecorating
and so we spent a year restoring it and redecorating it,
but actually other than losing one or two doors we didn't
do anything to the house. Although we had to build in
kitchen cabinets, new bathrooms, new bookcases, and every
thing of that sort.
SC: And the open house that you had Sunday here, that
was just for the city ?
MRS.L: Yes, it was a benefit for one of the clubs has a
benefit each year where they ask people to open their
houses and the money is used for a scholarship. So that's
the reason I did it this year, because Tom and I were
dreading the holidays with our daughter gone and really
we did it for ourselves and them too •.••• The homes that
were built from 1900 up through 1910 featured the pressed
metal ceiling and if you'll look in the s lick magazines
their advertising them now to use in the Victorian homes
and if you'll look every ceiling is made to order for the
room - this fits the bay over here and every room - this
room and the one above it has the bay and the living room
has the bay and the ••••
SC: And the ceiling was made for the room itself.
MRS.L: Yes. You can see •••
SC: Now all of this was intact when you got .••
MRS.L: Oh, yes. We didn't do anything to the floors, had
been ••• this parquet they had put in, but I had been
keeping bare floors out at the farm, around the rugs and I
wanted carpet, so we covered all the r est.
LONG
SC: And .•.
MRS.L: See, this is the bay window that matches the one
in the living room.
50
SC: •.• the one downstairs. Uh huh. And then the ceiling
now this ceiling is the original ceiling and it's metal and
made to order f or this room.
MRS.L: Right.
SC: Do you know if that was ••• where was ••• do you
have any idea how it got here? (laughter) Did they bring
it on the train or ••• ?
MRS.L: I don't have any idea. I'm sure it was shipped in.
SC: ... rails ••• I'm sure it was •••
MRS.L: Are you r ead y?
SC: Now this bathroom it was •••
MRS.L: Oh, there were no baths in the house, o f course,
when it was built, . . .
SC: Uh huh.
MRS.L: .•• this bath was added in the 1920s, was when they
put in bathrooms.
SC: And when you bought this house, you re-did this
bathroom.
MRS.L: Yes, there was a crude bathroom there, but we did it
over and put in new baths •••
SC: Now, the bookshelves you built yourselves, after you
moved in.
MRS.L: Actually, the house was jus t a house. Wasn't
anything in it to embellish it in any way.
LONG 51
MR.L: ..• go on over there a nd one on the ground fl oors
••• due to the fact they had a cookstove down in the
ki t chen and it's just a b rick flue •.• come up t here ••• on
that side
MRS.L: So Tom had t h a t c himney all taken out and windows
put i n.
SC: Uh huh. Well, that was good •••
MRS.L: But we didn't change the plan of the house at all.
We decided this was alright to have an entrance to the
bath through this little •••
SC: Living room ••• little den ••• s itting room I g uess
this was called at that time .
MRS.L: Well, we ••• the children a lways called it the
study . They were supposed to come in here and study.
(laughter)
SC : They did other things.
HC : ' Bout like our ch ildren . (laughter)
SC: Well now, what about the c l ose ts? Were the closets
here?
MRS.L: This c l oset was here .
SC: Now that's unusual, too .
MRS. L : And t here was o ne in Eli zabeth' s room that was here .
But we had t o make the closets in our room.
SC : In the other rooms.
MR.L: •••• in the corner •••.• about this much •.••
MRS.L: And Tom figured out how they could take that molding
down and put it back and it isn't noticeable at al l that we
took some off the ceiling .
LONG 52
SC: Well, it certainly isn't, this is very attractive.
And each pattern appears to be different.
MRS.L: Yes . Most of 'em are. This is a very plain one. And
the kitchen is very plain. But every other room has a
design •• •
SC: A design.
MRS.L: ... to fit the room. Now in Elizabeth's room of
course, there's a
VOICES CUT OUT.
END OF TAPE. SIDE 2. ABOUT 20 MINUTES.