Just bought a Vyger Timor t/t with a Rega RB 300 arm; the arm has the Rega standard c/w and it was an absolute nightmare setting it up with my rather heavy (10g) Ortofon Kontrapunkt C cartridge. I had to add two further "slivers" on the cw (with blue tac) to get things going as a temporary solution but will need a new "heavy" c/w soon. Been looking at the Origin Live, the Michell, and the Clearaudio turbo-weight. Any thoughts/recommendations?
Cheers.

moodybuilder

25-02-2012, 08:42

hi
Ive had a few of these over the years, coming from the pro rega camp. In my opinion the Michell is the best by some distance. If your a keen DIYer and want to take your arm even futher down the preformance line I suggest stripping it back to bare metal.

vouk

25-02-2012, 08:49

Hi Phil and thanks for your reply; I'm afraid I'm not that handy so I will keep it down to the basics. The Michell also comes with a replacement rear stub - screw on, right? Is that worth it as well?
Cheers

Mike g

25-02-2012, 08:52

I've seen an Audio Origami counter-weight. Looks fantastic and he makes them to fit the arm they are going onto. I'll be getting one when I have the cash.

moodybuilder

25-02-2012, 09:06

yes id recomend the whole kit which has:- the stub, a 3g-6g and a 6g-13g weights.

hifi_dave

25-02-2012, 09:55

Having tried several of these things over the years I would recommend either a Rega heavy c/weight as you already have the metal stub or a Michell Tecnoweight.

snuffbox

25-02-2012, 10:54

I boughtb a Rega tungsten 108gm weight of the bay the other day,I then discovered my existing weight was a 99 gm tungsten weight,cant say that the extra 9 gms has made any difference.

DSJR

25-02-2012, 11:21

Rega used to make a special heavy version of the tungsten counterweight. Rather than ask us and get 101 different recommendations, why not ask Rega directly? Anyone would think they know nothing about the products they make :rolleyes:

Sorry, the Michell weight certainly looks the business, but seriously, see if Rega still make the heavier tungsten option. The larger diameter stainless steel weight was a cost cutting option I think, but didn't affect the sonics, so a good move for them.

vouk

25-02-2012, 11:38

Thank you all for your feedback; for some reason, I never really thought of Rega doh: as I was under the impression they had discontinued them. That was the idea I got from their distributor here.

vouk

25-02-2012, 11:49

Which makes me want to fume as they seem to readily available EVERYWHERE else and at very keen prices. So for the Ortofon Kontrapunkt C, 10gr and with a tracking force of 2.5 which one of the Rega Tungsten cw/s' should I go for? I will be ordering it through the net.

Audioman

25-02-2012, 14:38

Which makes me want to fume as they seem to readily available EVERYWHERE else and at very keen prices. So for the Ortofon Kontrapunkt C, 10gr and with a tracking force of 2.5 which one of the Rega Tungsten cw/s' should I go for? I will be ordering it through the net.

I'm pretty shure the standard tungsten will work with the Ortofon as it did with my MC25FL. However with the Kontrapunkt I would recommend one of the third party C/W + stub upgrades. The Mitchell is the most elegant design available I think. Also set spring pressure dial to max and set downforce using a balance.

moodybuilder

25-02-2012, 19:55

ive had the regas and i must say the Michell is still the best option

Canetoad

26-02-2012, 14:10

Mitchell Technoweight for me too. :)

Darren

27-02-2012, 17:26

Enough about counterweights.... That Timor is a good looking turntable. Why did you choose it ? Was it easy to set up?

prestonchipfryer

27-02-2012, 17:33

Stick with Rega, as it's possible to damage arm bearings when messing about with so-called 'better' counterweights. IMO of course.

vouk

27-02-2012, 20:18

Enough about counterweights.... That Timor is a good looking turntable. Why did you choose it ? Was it easy to set up?

I was toying with the idea of replacing my Amazon 2/Origin Live combo, so I went around listening to the usual suspects (Michell, Notts Analogue and Kuzma - even considered just an arm upgrade to a Morch); then I saw a red Timor on fleabay, loved the looks, read the very positive reviews and, honestly just wanted something different than the usual. VYGER's distributor happened to have his demo model on sale (silver), with a Clearaudio OEM version of the RB 300 (rewired with their top of the line Sixstream cable - huge treat) - and after an extensive listen and a great deal thrown in, there was no doubt in my mind. Setting it up was an absolute breeze (and I am not that well inclined in such things) and have been loving it ever since. Overall, I would describe it as very musical, with great soundstage and imaging and just plain..fun.

DSJR

27-02-2012, 21:42

The RB300 bearings are all but indestructible I think, but NOT the RB250 ones, which need far more care if they're not to need adjustment I think.

markf

28-02-2012, 03:09

I used to use a Clearaudio RB250 ST and I bought the Clearaudio turbo-weight to go with that,it looks good,worked well.
(the arm also has the Sixstream cable which sold on it's own would cost more than the
actual arm which I always thought was odd)

Batty

28-02-2012, 05:47

I have a custom made counterweight for my RB250 after I rebodied my DL103. AO did the work and it is bloody good.

vouk

28-02-2012, 07:44

I used to use a Clearaudio RB250 ST and I bought the Clearaudio turbo-weight to go with that,it looks good,worked well.
(the arm also has the Sixstream cable which sold on it's own would cost more than the
actual arm which I always thought was odd)

That's exactly what I thought when I heard how much the cable and rewiring service costs; but, given the deal I got, I wasn't going to argue. The good thing about the Turboweight is that I can get it here at a very good price - about half that of the Technoweight/Rega varieties.
Otherwise, I think I might try out the Rega Tungsten one which is also very highly rated. I see they come in three weights, 91, 100 and 113 gr. Which one would be better suited for my cartridge?

Audioman

28-02-2012, 11:45

That's exactly what I thought when I heard how much the cable and rewiring service costs; but, given the deal I got, I wasn't going to argue. The good thing about the Turboweight is that I can get it here at a very good price - about half that of the Technoweight/Rega varieties.
Otherwise, I think I might try out the Rega Tungsten one which is also very highly rated. I see they come in three weights, 91, 100 and 113 gr. Which one would be better suited for my cartridge?

The Origin Live Weight sounds far better than standard tungsten. I imagine Mitchell will be slightly better. So if your moding don't waste money on std Rega weights. With care the existing stub can be removed without damage to bearings.

hifi_dave

28-02-2012, 15:03

As previously mentioned, the RB300 has a metal end stub and that doesn't need changing.

The Rega weights are beautifully machined and finished as is the Michell Tecnoweight. Not always the case with these add ons.

Audioman

28-02-2012, 20:26

As previously mentioned, the RB300 has a metal end stub and that doesn't need changing.

The Rega weights are beautifully machined and finished as is the Michell Tecnoweight. Not always the case with these add ons.

The Origin Live weight involves a new decoupled end stub being fitted. I thought the Technoweight required a new stub also.

AlfaGTV

29-02-2012, 12:06

... I thought the Technoweight required a new stub also.

I sure does! The Technoweight has a threaded end stub to accommodate the VTF adjustment. :doh: Uhhh... I mean, it is threaded in both ends...

I just bought my second Technoweight, mucho pleased with the quality and foremost the audio quality improvement! :)

BR /Mike

vouk

29-02-2012, 15:12

My only concern with the Technoweight is that I will have to remove the existing metal stub - it's an older arm and have no idea how easy it will be and whether I risk damaging the bearings.
I think I'm leaning towards the Rega heavy weight (which Vyger also recommended) or the Clearaudio Turboweight because of its great price.

DSJR

29-02-2012, 15:26

I repeat, anyone would think that Rega no nothing about turntable and tonearm design, unlike the bodgers who most often see a quick buck being made from ruining them, adding faults that weren't there originally, just to make the sound more "exciting....."

FFS, if you want a more exciting sound from a tonearm, just buy a Nima, Ittok, Hadcock or Jelco, which offer so much for not much more - IMO!

vouk

29-02-2012, 15:45

No argument from me - Rega certainly know what they are doing. Vyger strongly recommended it and so do many other manufacturers who use the RB-300 on their tables.

I've used the RB 300 on a variety of t/t's I've owned in the past and have been perfectly happy with it. I am not so sure whether a switch to a Nima or an Ittok would be that much of an upgrade. Maybe another Rega higher up the ladder or an SME might be an option but I' not there yet..

prestonchipfryer

29-02-2012, 16:25

I repeat, anyone would think that Rega no nothing about turntable and tonearm design, unlike the bodgers who most often see a quick buck being made from ruining them, adding faults that weren't there originally, just to make the sound more "exciting....."

FFS, if you want a more exciting sound from a tonearm, just buy a Nima, Ittok, Hadcock or Jelco, which offer so much for not much more - IMO!

+ 1

DSJR

29-02-2012, 17:00

What I mean is this... (takes a deep breath...)

The RB300 and top SME style arms share something in common - a VERY clean and non resonant design. Certainly when it was introduced, it didn't meet with much sonic enthusiasm in some quarters because it didn't sound off like a buzz-saw as early Ittoks, Ekos and Basik LVX based arms were inclined to if you got it wrong. As a result, a (don't have a go at me Marco PLEASE just yet) "restrained" sounding cartridge would get short shrift in an RB300 and SME V, which indeed they seem to do. Cartridges which have more life to them, and possibly also ones which don't put loads of energy into the arm to dissipate? fare rather better in my experience..

The RB300 has very closely toleranced bearings and stainless-steel shafts carefully torqued up with a special tool. Very few people outside Rega have one, although Mike Harris at Moth marketing showed me his :eyebrows: some years ago. Having recently been given some of the incredibly thin, fine internal wiring Rega use, I'm now not surprised that for many, an Incognito wiring loom or similar can have audible benefit in some systems - BUT IT NEEDS CAREFUL INSERTION (:eek: :lol:) into the arm pipe and internal glands which I believe to be there.

The RB250 based models were nowhere near as carefully toleranced and this makes them easier to dismantle, muck around with and bodge. Apologies chaps, but it has to be said! The fact that the raw 250 makes such a great bodging donor must speak volumes for the original design concept I think.

There's also an issue regarding the whole "closed loop" feeling of resonance transmission, there being nowhere for any very high frequencies to go, other than *possibly* be reflected back down the wand and into the cartridge. I've not researched this, so apologies if I'm talking out me bum on this one. Certainly, the Syrinx PU2 was improved by having a rubber fitting around one of the ball-races (good God, I don't mean to use these double-wotsits...) and the Ittok was deliberately designed for the vertical bearing shaft to be connected at only one end.. This is where a decent wooden/composite arm board may work brilliantly with the RB300 instead of a ringy? metal one. Again, this is where proper OBJECTIVE testing should be done, to see what's happening. The real fun starts later when sonic differences are noted ;)

The techno-arm is an interesting take on the Rega idea, but I have no idea if the results you pay extra for are visual, or if there really is any "improvement" in the way the thing actually works. Their counterweight is superbly made and finished, as befits a Michell product, but really, whether it would "improve" an RB300 is something I don't believe anyone has tested in a fair and un-biased manner.

Apologies, but as I said above, if you want more "life" and "go" than an RB300 series arm will give, the counterweight is probably the last thing I'd look at, and only once the arm was professionally re-wired by someone trained to do it properly.

I may have dire memories of Hadcocks of old, but my Gawd they could sing, and the Nima looks very much to being a replacement for the fondly thought of Formula 4 arm (look at pics and you can easily see the similarities). Expensive yes, but still half the price or less than an ARO ended up and a third of the price of an Ekos I think :rolleyes:

Here endeth the sermon. Sorry to go on so....

vouk

29-02-2012, 17:24

Apologies, but as I said above, if you want more "life" and "go" than an RB300 series arm will give, the counterweight is probably the last thing I'd look at, and only once the arm was professionally re-wired by someone trained to do it properly.

Here endeth the sermon. Sorry to go on so....

No apology needed as I thoroughly appreciated the insight. As I said, I am very
happy with the arm as it is - the rewiring was done by Clearaudio using the best cable they've got (whatever that means) and the only reason I need a new counterweight is out of necessity due to my rather heavy cartridge -so as a drop in replacement.

Darren

29-02-2012, 17:45

Hi, I just wanted to say that I have very little ( ok, none) experience of modifying tone arms but even I managed to remove the Rega stub and fit the Technoweight thingy with very little difficulty. It looks good, is easy to adjust and will last the life of the tonearm.

markf

01-03-2012, 03:22

DSJR,
The Rega arm that vouk has is a Clearaudio version of the RB300 , it has been wired by Clearaudio
already and I assume the “internal glands “ will be fine as I hope yours are !
The question being asked is what is the best heavier counter weight for this Clearaudio RB300,for me it
was an easy choice I just went with the Clearaudio weight .
I’m using a Brinkmann 10.5 arm now but I kept my Clearaudio RB250 ST , I kind of like the color, it
is finished in a nice gunmetal paint .

vouk

01-03-2012, 07:48

Hi Mark,

I did notice the gunmetal grey finish on the arm - I assume this is what Clearaudio refers to as "Metal Parts" to "add further resonance control". Reading on the Sixstream it seems to be the same cable that Clearaudio uses to wire their top of the line parallel tracking tonearms (including the TT2) so I guess it must be good enough for my Rega (albeit on the "overkill" side).
The turboweight does look good - and I can get it for half the price of the Rega or Michell variants. Is it the same one used in the Unify/magnify models?

markf

01-03-2012, 08:15

Vouk,
yes the weight looks like the one in the Unify arm, I thought the "metal parts"
just referred to the silver end stub, arm lift lever and counter weight which were all black
in the standard Rega model ....maybe
I don't know if there is anything special about the clearaudio finish,but I like the look of it.