I wasn't expecting any of the Crab Personalities to have anything positive in relation to Shadowlands, of course not.

I am, frankly, sick of seeing random 'if Shadowlands, extra bad effect' on cards (see A Breed Apart), while there's only one card in Ivory that does something GOOD 'if Shadowlands', and while our guys with that solely negative keyword aren't any better than Personalities without said negative keyword. That a Breed Apart is also really useful for monk/shugenja decks just means it's another hurdle we have to jump that no one else does, while receiving no extra boost or compensation for a Clan-specific hurdle.

Oh, and we haven't been competitive in three years, and based on the data from this Kotei season, it looks to be stretching to four.

Good to see Shadowlands continues to be a completely negative keyword with no benefits or any extra compensation for the Personality cards that carry them.

We've seen cards previewed for the Crab clan, of course any reference to Shadowlands on them are going to be negative. Seriously, you're chicken little on steroids guy.

I'm fine with being punished for Shadowlands when Shadowlands also has some benefits. So far, there is de facto (Ever present fear is a crap card) no benefit to Shadowlands, which is where I think most people are angry.

I'm fine with being punished for Shadowlands when Shadowlands also has some benefits. So far, there is de facto (Ever present fear is a crap card) no benefit to Shadowlands, which is where I think most people are angry.

Pretty much what BeastEG said. Punish me all you want, just also give me benefits. As it stands, there are no benefits.

It's like playing a High Honor Clan vs a Low Honor Clan. High Honor Clans have tons of inherent advantages, Low Honor Clans have none.

Or how there are cards that get better the high PH the Performer has (or cannot be used unless your PH is above a certain threshold), but next to nothing that keys off a lower PH.

Or how Spider is the ONLY Clan punished for playing our own Personalities by having to absorb Honor Losses for bringing them into play, while not being compensated at all for carrying that Honor Loss on the Personality by the Personality being better than their comparable peers (Shiho is the exception - Shiho is AMAZEBALLS, as evidenced how she's being splashed out of Clan), and these cards contributing to our continued auto-loss vs. dishonor....when no other Clan has had an auto-loss vs one of the four victory conditions, much less one for 8 years straight.

It's yet another example of a inherent inbalance in l5r that folks have been aware of for years, but the Design Team doesn't seem to care one whit about fixing, because 'flavor'.

While the card currently mainly targets Spider cards, it doesn't only target Spider cards. Phoenix and Spider both have a Shugenja who can give it out. I expect to see more coming for Phoenix as they get further support for their inquisitor deck. There is also a Spell that gives a target Shadowlands. And a strategy(although more limited, because of having to already have other Shadowlands cards). Onyx edition is all about Jigoku. There are going to be more Shadowlands related cards, I expect on both the pro and con side, leading up to it.

Come on, guys, why can't we have one cycle of Previews without beating the dead horse of Honour losses on our Personalities and anti-Shadowlands cards?

Anti-Shadowlands cards sucks without compensation like Flanked by Nightmares or Tale of Tsukuro, but to have the same discussion every three to four months doesn't really help. It's not like we will see a solution soon (unless there was a rethinking in the Design Team and we see the results soon).

That said, I can relate, as I've been waiting fot our 2011 Story prizes and hope to see them as traits on a card every set.

Also, I assume that other clans will have anti-Shadowlands cards, but I expect us to have some tainty mojo. An Empire that is threatened by Jigoku without the cards reflecting that would be a missed opportunity.

I'm still waiting on my Master of the Thunder Ascendant Style Martial Art trait from 2011, along with a few winner's choices. At this point I doubt they will get printed. It'll probably be a small blurb in a inconsequential fiction at best.

As far as compensation for the shadowlands keyword goes... I doubt it'll happen this set based on what's been leaked/previewed so far.

The day we stop saying anything is the day that we are either giving design a pass on it or we have left the game.

Right, but I'm not sure if the same complaints (by the same two or three players) every few months is the right way to go. Granted, I'm not primarily a card gamer, but I've never considered the Honour loss on our guys a big Problem. Of course, when I joined the game, we were immune to Dishonour and didn't lose Honour by any of our cards or that of the other player.

Having Dishonour as auto-loss sucks, of course, and probably isn't intended by Design. "Play meta" isn't the answer if you cannot play meta when it makes you too weak against other matchups. But I would welcome the return of our old flavour that put a smile on our face when we just draw or flip a card. As it was in Samurai Edition, even when we sucked, but celebrated our story prizes all the more. But enough of nostalgia... towards Onyx Edition!

The day we stop saying anything is the day that we are either giving design a pass on it or we have left the game.

Right, but I'm not sure if the same complaints (by the same two or three players) every few months is the right way to go. Granted, I'm not primarily a card gamer, but I've never considered the Honour loss on our guys a big Problem. Of course, when I joined the game, we were immune to Dishonour and didn't lose Honour by any of our cards or that of the other player.

Having Dishonour as auto-loss sucks, of course, and probably isn't intended by Design. "Play meta" isn't the answer if you cannot play meta when it makes you too weak against other matchups. But I would welcome the return of our old flavour that put a smile on our face when we just draw or flip a card. As it was in Samurai Edition, even when we sucked, but celebrated our story prizes all the more. But enough of nostalgia... towards Onyx Edition!

The thing is though that these are real issues that keep us from getting story prizes in the first place. This mechanic should have been solved at the start of 20F with all the hate it got. Shadowlands so far is a con on our cards, when it should be a positive.

There will be stuff in this set to help, but not in anywhere near a manner to warrant the sheer amount of shadowlands hate cards getting thrown our way. We now have 2 clans with military build designed to hate on us, 3 clans with dishonor themes to auto win against us, and no real buff for shadowlands.

Its going to be worse then Ivory edition in terms of the spider hate, and that had purge of fudoism.

All leading to when we are suppose to rule everything, its almost laughable.

I never used to care about the honor losses on our guys. 1 pt here and there isn't a big deal right? Since TNO however, we have so many guys with honor losses on them it has really started to add up. Shiho, gunjao, twisted one, hachiko, etc. Add in some out of clan options like voitagi or keppo and you really have to start making decisions on who can actually fit into the deck becuase of those once insignificant honor losses.

Im super noob in term of how a card can/should work, but why can't they just give shadowland card a +1F? it suits the game's flavour and it will shut us all up. is that 1F too OP in game?

If Shadowlands = (courtesy: +1F)

Then yes, alot of Spider cards would get very interesting and more cost efficient, which would help spider tremendously. The issue is that a few of our cards would become TOO efficient, like Shiho being 4F for 4G, which makes her an insane value.

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