There is this band I like. I used to watch them at little gigs here and there and it was great being able to be close in an intimate setting and feel the music. For the most part everyone at the shows respected everyone else, didn't talk over the performance and there was always good vibes.

Then one day the band had a hit that was on the radio. Now everybody knew of the band and even though they didn't understand or care how special the music was, it didn't matter to them because they just wanted to hear it over and over until the song lost all of its meaning and the next big one came along.

All of a sudden the band was playing bigger and bigger shows. One day I went to see them at a stadium venue. There was trash covering the parking lots on the way to the show and all over the stadium. The place was crowded with people shouting and talking during the entire performance and could care less about the music or how they were destroying it. They just wanted a piece of it.

I think for the most part its good people on this website. Can't say either way about others, but I have seen how certain people act. Some of us just want to be able to enjoy our favorite band once in a while and it's much more enjoyable when there isn't trash all over the place or people who don't appreciate the music.

I read the removed post as frustration over the fact that websites like this are monitored by the catch and kill ultra-lite spinning crowd and others. The very same trout that you catch and release are killed by them.

What kind of statement is that? Maybe the fly fishing elites need to call a rumble with the ultra lite spinning crowd. ****, let's throw in the kerplunckers too! I have done them both and still do but my preference is fly fishing. I catch a fish with trebles I pull out the forceps and do my best. Mortally wounded fish go to the frying pan. Do some die after release? I'm sure, but then the eagles, raccoons and whatever else get an easy meal.

Predgudism is ugly and "paranoia will destroy ya".

I'll let you all in on a little secret, there are no secret places, flies/lures or techniques left in this country. Let's share and have fun.

Gentlemen,
I hope you're all doing well, I am currently driving up to Montana to guide out of a drift boat all summer. The point I was trying to make was if a guy finds his own adventure it will be much more rewarding. I believe the offense was taken when I asked him if he would like a detailed map sarcastically of course. I am sorry for being insensitive.
I have been a guide for almost 14 years and in that time I have shown hundreds of people how to fish where to fish and how to find peace in flyfishing. Now if someone was to come to me and asked me where I would fish if I was them I would gladly tell you where to go and what to get in my opinion the Internet is no place for those things . They say loose lips sink ships same goes for our very fragile Arizona environment. Considering there is 6 million people in the valley.all it takes is one guy with a panther Martin to walk some really good stretches and whack old trout that most likely will never be stocked again and will not have the same genetics.
With that being said next year I will be offering more Arizona fishing trips if you have time go to my website I also offer guided Arizona hunts for quail. Troutandquail.com
I'm glad to say I was born and raised in Arizona it is the best state but in the last eight years she has been bombarded with the Internet. I do hope that she can withstand the test of time and will always have nice places to go fishing. Only time will tell
Best,
Capt Jp

I would be interested in reading about the topic of huge trout on a small stream such as the Chevelon, from a fish biologist point of view. This guy caught this huge brown on the Chevelon on a lure that I think should be illegal for that stream. That being said, that trout was an apex predator supreme for that area of the stream. One does not have to be rocket scientist to figure out that one monster like that will eat a whole lot of smaller trout. Does it benefit the stream to have super large trout taken out occasionally so that the smaller fish can thrive? I am 55 and I fished the Chevelon when I was teenager with my father. There were many more fish on the stream then, but fish that were 16 inch plus were much less common. I really think Game and Fish needs to take a close look at the stream and come up with a good management plan, and then... enforce it. If Brown trout have a low reproduction rate, then maybe put some rainbows back in the stream also.

Though never having set foot at Chevelon Lake or the creek, I saw a video, shot by the fireman son-in-law of a very nice man named Mr. Payton in my Tucson shop, Tightlines Flyfishing, some 10-12 years ago, where the guy landed a 7 or 8 lb brown out of that creek.

The video, obviously shot by a friend, showed him crawling to the bank on his belly, flipping an olive woolly bugger out on a 3 wt. rod in an almost stagnant pool, where it sank to the bottom and he left it there. The huge trout was circling the pool at the other end as he cast, and when it came back around he twitched the fly without creating a disturbance and eventually landed the behemoth.

At the risk of sounding like every other old codger, "You should have seen it in my day..only bamboo and fiberglass fly rods, 4x tippet was 2 & 1/2 lbs, no flyshops to speak of, few guides,no trout bums, no internet....nobody except cranky curmudgeons to teach you anything, let alone divulge secrets - and then you had to mow their lawns, trim hedges, wax their cars, attend cockfights for feathers to obtain a speck of useful knowledge."

Not to keep what appears to some as a negative thread alive, I do not buy off on the internet thing. Don't know your ages but I am sure the older gents (self included) saw this coming way before the internet arrived. The population is skyrocketing and the places to fish are not.

My father was a cranky curmudgeon. He gave me the tools, took me fishing and then told me to shut up, watch and learn. I soon figured out to do just that and save my questions for the ride home. That was when we had the most informative conversations. I think of the internet now as that ride home and everyone deserves honesty and helpful answers. If you cannot do that here then how can you be trusted for your services and products.

I like the internet as the "ride home" analogy....just add that it might be the ride home with Russian and Taiwanese commercial fishermen listening in on your bugged vehicle.

I ran a flyfishing proshop for about 15 years and agree most - but not all - flyfishers are good folks, but when you post in the General Discussion part of this forum you cannot be sure everyone is a flyfisher, or C&R. Lurkers don't need to register to read these posts.

Flyshops used to be good places for information, but as they close nationwide about one/week the internet becomes more valuable - and even guides and fly shop staff have their secrets.

Chevelon Canyon has not been much of a secret for a long time, and I have no dog in this fight...but we all need to learn to process information on the internet. We can't look a person in the eye and decide where they are coming from, and often misinterpret hat we read - whether emails, facebook posts, twitter feeds, this forum.