Martin is obviously the first thy want out, probably Orpik next.And the fact they barely used Engellend in the playoffs when the defense was already sucking shows little confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see three go.

Martin is obviously the first thy want out, probably Orpik next.And the fact they barely used Engellend in the playoffs when the defense was already sucking shows little confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see three go.

I don't think there is much point to trading the whole defense away when the coaching is the main problem, imo.

Martin is obviously the first thy want out, probably Orpik next.And the fact they barely used Engellend in the playoffs when the defense was already sucking shows little confidence. I wouldn't be surprised to see three go.

I don't think there is much point to trading the whole defense away when the coaching is the main problem, imo.

Well I agree but it's just what I think they will do. It doesn't get mentioned as much but Orpik was just as awful as anyone down the stretch and in the playoffs, and they still wouldn't give Engellend any minutes at all.

Engellend, for his role/minutes/salary...is fine. Orpik, yeah, it could be argued to trade him...and some teams may really want him, but $3,750,000 for two more years with the experience/leadership he brings is also fine. Michalek...more of an argument could be made, but his $4,000,000 isn't the most hampering of salaries for his role/minutes. For multiple and obvious reasons Martin, while not a terrible player, is the guy Shero will be looking to deal...perhaps even before Friday.

Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

steelhammer wrote:Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

...if he didn't make that pass in the early moments of the 3rd period of game 2, i believe the pens win that game.

they win that game - i think the flyers are out of their head (they clearly were in it).

with the flyers out of their heads - i think the pens play much better in that series and (honestly) i believe they win it.

not saying lovejoy's pass cost us the cup...but that was a REALLY BAD play that sucked the life out of the team. for what he brings (which isn't much when there are others who can take his place), i simply couldn't keep a risk like him around.

steelhammer wrote:Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

...if he didn't make that pass in the early moments of the 3rd period of game 2, i believe the pens win that game.

they win that game - i think the flyers are out of their head (they clearly were in it).

with the flyers out of their heads - i think the pens play much better in that series and (honestly) i believe they win it.

not saying lovejoy's pass cost us the cup...but that was a REALLY BAD play that sucked the life out of the team. for what he brings (which isn't much when there are others who can take his place), i simply couldn't keep a risk like him around.

There were a lot of bad plays in that series. From every defenseman and every forward. I think singling one out is pretty stupid.

With guys like Despres, Morrow, and Harrington in the system and with Shero trying to resign Niskanen, it only makes sense that the Pens will be looking to move some dmen for assets. I'd be in favor of moving Martin and Michalek.

steelhammer wrote:Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

...if he didn't make that pass in the early moments of the 3rd period of game 2, i believe the pens win that game.

they win that game - i think the flyers are out of their head (they clearly were in it).

with the flyers out of their heads - i think the pens play much better in that series and (honestly) i believe they win it.

not saying lovejoy's pass cost us the cup...but that was a REALLY BAD play that sucked the life out of the team. for what he brings (which isn't much when there are others who can take his place), i simply couldn't keep a risk like him around.

There were a lot of bad plays in that series. From every defenseman and every forward. I think singling one out is pretty stupid.

I think the notion they were in our heads more than that we sucked on the overall team game once teams started attacking us all the time is silly.

whether its coaching or players or both some changes need made and that includes no matter what some d personnel movement.

steelhammer wrote:Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

...if he didn't make that pass in the early moments of the 3rd period of game 2, i believe the pens win that game.

they win that game - i think the flyers are out of their head (they clearly were in it).

with the flyers out of their heads - i think the pens play much better in that series and (honestly) i believe they win it.

not saying lovejoy's pass cost us the cup...but that was a REALLY BAD play that sucked the life out of the team. for what he brings (which isn't much when there are others who can take his place), i simply couldn't keep a risk like him around.

There were a lot of bad plays in that series. From every defenseman and every forward. I think singling one out is pretty stupid.

not sure how that was "stupid" (nice vocabulary, by the way). the pens had the momentum there. they were all fired up, the home team was in it -- everything was set to go their way and the team was ready to put game 1 behind them. i had read somewhere that mario threw something (bottle of wine maybe) after that goal. whether that is true or not - i didn't hear any similar statement on any other goal. that was a real pivotal moment in the series and there is nothing "stupid" about wanting that one back.

steelhammer wrote:Lovejoy seems to get piled on around here for little reason. He had what, 1 or 2 bad games this season? Last season he played very well. For what it's worth, Crosby says he is the toughest defender to play against in practice. He could still be good if he got regular shifts. He's nothing like that one horrendous playoff game. Niskanen proved that this season.

...if he didn't make that pass in the early moments of the 3rd period of game 2, i believe the pens win that game.

they win that game - i think the flyers are out of their head (they clearly were in it).

with the flyers out of their heads - i think the pens play much better in that series and (honestly) i believe they win it.

not saying lovejoy's pass cost us the cup...but that was a REALLY BAD play that sucked the life out of the team. for what he brings (which isn't much when there are others who can take his place), i simply couldn't keep a risk like him around.

Perhaps he doesn't make that pass if the Zamboni had cleaned the ice counter clockwise instead of clockwise... you just aren't pursuing enough depth in your causal chain.