MIKE McCLAUGHRY: All of northern California, in fact probably
larger than that, was my area.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, all the way to the next org, see
what I'm saying?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Yeah.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: So if anything happened in Sacramento, I
packed my bag and I went down and handled it.

I don't know the people there.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Right.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know, I go in the org, you know, I look
around at the people that are on-lines there, you know. I know
what I'm there to do; I'm there to recruit a spy, you know. And
I just look at people and evaluate them in my own opinion, you
know. Does this person look like they are, uh, enough of a
Scientologist that I could ask them to do something like that
and they would do it. That's all.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Did you find that it was difficult to find
Scientologists that would do that?

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: No, sorry to say! (laughs) I mean, there was a
lot of people I didn't talk to.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Right.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Because I knew ahead of time this guy ain't
got what it takes, you know. So I guess I was good at picking
them.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Uh-huh.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Because, um, I can't think of any case where I
asked the person to do it and they said no.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

OVERT VS. COVERT

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: We would try to go and find out things overtly
when it came to giving information to PR and Legal. We would
try to get the information overtly, you know, like legally, so
that they could use it.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Um-hmm.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: You know what I mean? A lot of cases we, we
would obtain information covertly. Uh, let's say that-- okay,
here's a specific example; in fact, it involves Vaughn. Okay?
The San Francisco Better Business Bureau was in the same
building as the org. They were one floor below us! (laughs)
And, uh--

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They were a threat.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Well, yeah, you know, they-- they had a nasty
little file on Scientology. You know, if anybody called them
about Scientology, you know, they'd go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah", you
know, and give them some critical stuff, right? So they were an
enemy. So we, you know-- our task was to get their file so that
PR could go in there and, uh, you know, try to dead-agent the
thing, that kind of stuff, you know. Well, I got a
Scientologist to be the janitor for the building. That gave us
the key to the Better Business Bureau. Okay? Uh, he hands the
key over to me. We went in there at night, me and a couple of
other guys. We copied all their files, um, and then we walked
out and, uh, we had 'em. That's how we got 'em. Then, uh, PR,
which was Vaughn at the time-- Vaughn Young, PR in San
Francisco-- we turned the files over to him so we had to have
some story about how did we get this. Well, how we got that is
we wrote a letter, we typ-- you know, we didn't write it, we
typed it. We went on their (laughs)-- we went on the BBB's own
typewriters, right, because you can track typewriters.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Like fingerprints sometimes.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yeah.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Right, so we didn't type it on our typewriter,
we typed it on their typewriter. Why not? We're in their damn
building! (laughter)

So we typed a little letter from a, uh, uh-- you know,the letter
said that, you know, they had some ax to grind with their boss,
the BB-- like it's coming from a person that works at the BBB,
right? Is typing this letter, "and by the way, I don't think
this is right, and here's their file." And mailed it. Well,
that isn't how we got it, but that's what the letter said how
we got it, and therefore that made that data overt. You see
what I mean? It looked like it was overtly obtained; well, it
wasn't. Well, that's common practice, I mean, that's just
standard, everyday stuff, okay? We had to take information that
we had obtained covertly and illegally and make it--

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Sugar-coat it.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: -- you know, make it overt. How can we use it
overtly? How can we use it legally? How can we use it in PR?
Yeah, yeah. That was, you know, just part of the day's work.
Okay? So (laughs) that's how we nailed them, okay? So then
Vaughn goes and gets the press, right? The media, I'm talking
about. The newspaper guys, right? The TV guys, cameras,
everything, stomps into the BBB, throws the file down-- "What
the hell is this?" You know what I mean? (laughs) And then
tears-- proceeds to tear 'em up in front of the press.

NO ONE IS SAFE

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Nobody was safe from this. There was nobody
excluded from this. I don't care if you're a judge, you're the
President, you work for the CIA, it doesn't matter. You're just
a private citizen, you're a cop-- God, I don't care if you're a
cop, I'll tear you apart! (laughs) You know what I mean? From
this tech.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No boundaries.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: No boundaries.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: Uh-uh.

HURTING PEOPLE

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: My frame of mind at the time I was doing this
was that, uh-- which is no question in my mind the frame of mind
of the people who do it today--

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Uh-huh.

MIKE McCLAUGHRY: -- is that, uh, Scientology was the savior of
the world, or if that's the right word. We were gonna clear the
planet, uh, we were gonna eliminate, uh, criminality, insanity
and war from this planet. Those were the aims of Scientology,
right? And we felt like we had the technology to do that with
and that anybody that would destroy that technology, um, was,
you know, um--