Next up for France: police keyloggers and Web censorship

The French government, fresh from passing its controversial "three strikes" …

Having just passed its super-controversial Cr�ation et Internet "graduated response" law, you might think the French government would take at least a brief break from riling up the "internautes." Instead, the government is prepping a new crime bill that will, among other things, mandate Internet censorship at the ISP level, legalize government spyware, and create a massive meta-database of citizen information called "Pericles."

Think of the children

Loppsi 2 allows the state to install software that can "observe, collect, record, save, and transmit" keystrokes from computers on which it is installed. In essence, it allows for government-installed Trojans for a period of four months; a judge can extend this period for four months more.

In the US, the FBI has used similar techniques for several years, installing a program called CIPAV on suspects' computers to record and transmit "pen register" data back to investigators.

Under Loppsi 2, French ISPs would also need to participate in a Web censorship regime that initially appears targeted at child pornography. Critics like Jean-Michel Planche, who advises the French government on Internet issues, are already calling the new bill the end of an open and neutral Internet.

Finally, the bill allows for a database called "Pericles" that can pull together information from various existing French databases to create a "super-dossier" on people. According to Le Monde, such a database could contain all sorts of crucial, personal information, and sounds certain to set off the same debates that have taken place in the US whenever similar projects have been floated.

Oh—and did we mention that Loppsi 2 funds all sorts of other crime-fighting techniques, including automated camera systems that record the license plates of cars passing by on the motorway?

Taken together, the Loppsi 2 draft shows just how serious the Sarkozy government is about getting some control over this crazy Internet thing that all the kids are using now. Actually, this is a situation playing out in most developed countries at the moment, and it's not yet clear whether a global consensus will emerge on how to deal with law enforcement challenges on the 'Net.

Numerous countries in Europe already run Internet child porn blacklists; massive government databases exist or are being developed just about everywhere; graduated response laws are slowly moving into the mainstream. France just seems more interested than most in adopting all of these ideas in the shortest possible timeframe.

It was always thought countries like China would join us, the "enlightened" West, adopting Democracy, Freedom of Speech and other niceties. Instead, we, and France especially, are quickly joining China and other authoritarian regimes under the guise of "protecting" the citizens and preserving "moral values".

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

This song has been playing in my list for a couple of days now: http://www.jamendo.com/en/track/80506 seems appropriate. Courtesy of Jamendo, by the way. Download a song from them and see how they feel about the graduated response law.

@Windsong: Yeah. Of course. That's totally how it goes. They're allowed to snoop on you, but not vice versa. Because you see, you're too dumb to protect yourself from the world on your own. But see, they're tough and organized and such with their super-advanced software. Which, you could find online and use to defend yourself on your own if they weren't blocking you from downloading it, calling them 'hacker tools'. Ok, well, they're capabilities really aren't the point. It's that they're more trustworthy than the general public. I mean, do you know how hard it is to get into politics/law enforcement? I mean, you really gotta want it. It'd be rare to see someone with malicious or negligent intentions get into a public office. I mean, ok, sure you hear reports all the dang time about corrupt politicians and crooked cops that can't be trusted with the welfare of the public. But, I mean, you know if you take the law into your own hands, instead of becoming a law enforcement officer, then it's just gonna be chaos. There'll be people shooting people in back alleys, kids being exploited for sexual perversion on the internet, and even people being picked on in internet forums! I mean, yeah, granted, that stuff happens *anyways*, despite whatever measures are put in place to prevent them, but.... Well, I mean, the point is...

NWO doesn't exist. Nope. Impossible. Gov is just here to protect us. And totally warp the meaning and intentions of what we've always known? Pericles for the national citizen spy program? Wtf? Sickeningly Orwell.

Originally posted by tmarkt:I find nothing wrong with the police going after people who want and/or distribute child porn.

LOL dats right guys lets shackle the internets and make a mockery of privacy becuz HEY YO THINK OF DA CHEELDRENNN

Indeed, I wonder who are the most despicable people : the so-called democratic governments that try to pass freedom-killing legislation, or the baaing sheeple who welcome it with open arms.As if all the organized surveillance and laws aimed at reducing crime had done so. In fact the politicians and their financial backers use crime as a pretext to icnrease their control over the population, and do NOTHING to actually curtail the criminal activity that serves their goals.It is the beginning of "soft" dictatorship.

Originally posted by tmarkt:I find nothing wrong with the police going after people who want and/or distribute child porn.

If the measures targeted just child porn, were actually effective in fighting not just the dissemination but also the production of child porn, and were subject to a review process, people would be all for it.

However, net blocks achieve none of it, they only invite other power players (media companies, politicians, griefers) to abuse them beyond their original intent.

Originally posted by tmarkt:I find nothing wrong with the police going after people who want and/or distribute child porn.

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."Mein Kampf - Adolf Hitler

ho but it will become ugly, really ugly in a few years. There are too much repression for no gain NO GAIN at all. Could you imagine the new government ask more and more sacrifice but NO gain. no increase in salary, no new roads, networks, schools, hospital whatever... just new laws and laws and still laws and again laws. Indirect tax and increased costs, to much politicians spitting on poor people and France is not the same country where I grown up.

The French government has been moving away from Windows for awhile now.

In any case, the Internet has in many ways been much like the lawless land of the wild west. It's a matter of various governments trying to bring law and order, even civilized behavior, to the Internet. When the majority of a population become pirates, obviously extreme measures are going to have to be taken.

""The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people. As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation."Mein Kampf - Adolf Hitler"

So, should we not try to protect children? Not too long ago, they used to use kids in England to help clean out chimneys. They'd tie a rope around their ankles and then lower them in from the top. Then these laws came out which made it illegal to put them in such a position. Bravo. It used to be that kids were considered a man's property, as was his wife. He could beat and abuse them as he wished. Now there are laws against that, and some effort is made to enforce them. Kids do need legal protection and energetic and intelligent enforcement.

The fascists are back. Our veteran grandfathers are barely dead and we're just letting it happen all over again.

The last time it seemed like a good idea to store all personal data in one centralised location, it proved very helpful to a certain group of people to round up and murder about 7.3 million database entries.

Originally posted by ronaldst:People who believe in big government must be thrilled. Net "neutrality" and now increased "security!"

One freedom at a time.

Really? That's where you're gonna go with this, an generalization into "All government regulation is bad"? Guess what, one is to prevent corporate abuse of power and the other is simply government abuse of power. I guess next you'll be wanting the government to return other freedoms they've taken over the years, like the right to dump toxic waste in lakes, or the right to stuff teddy bears with asbestos.

Originally posted by Zyrxil:I guess next you'll be wanting the government to return other freedoms they've taken over the years, like the right to dump toxic waste in lakes, or the right to stuff teddy bears with asbestos.

Can't wait till government stops destroying the environment. Or stops choosing which junk that is sorta "ok" to put in stuff that will come in contact with us.

Government regulation is a good thing. These regulations bit the big pickle. I don't have that much problem with ISP level filters for child porn (As long as they do not eat too many clock cycles and or cost the ISP too much money. They also need to be very limited in scope.) Key loggers should only be available to law enforcement if they can show a judge probable cause. Centralizing government databases is acceptable. If they start going out and grabbing civilian data, that is wrong.

If I were living in France, not only would I be running Linux, I would be running it from a live read only DVD image. I would also check my DVD from time to time.

Originally posted by ungood++:Hmm... If I tried promoting and distributing open source software, what would the French government do?

Ever hear of the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior? If the French will happily bomb a ship at port in a friendly democratic nation, they will have few qualms taking out a distributor of subversive software technology -- to protect the children of course.

Sounds like another conflict with EU. Cross indexing information covered by privacy is explicitly forbidden. Each company or agency can store private information they are given or relate to their business, but they can not share or cross-index them.

Originally posted by Woolly Mittens:The fascists are back. Our veteran grandfathers are barely dead and we're just letting it happen all over again.

The last time it seemed like a good idea to store all personal data in one centralised location, it proved very helpful to a certain group of people to round up and murder about 7.3 million database entries.

France already has records on millions of its citizens (some estimates say tens of millions) that were gathered in the days of the Renseignements Généraux. The government has spied on its citizens for over a hundred years. It's nothing new to them.

Originally posted by ungood++:Hmm... If I tried promoting and distributing open source software, what would the French government do?

Ever hear of the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior? If the French will happily bomb a ship at port in a friendly democratic nation, they will have few qualms taking out a distributor of subversive software technology -- to protect the children of course.

One of the first moves the English government did at the beginning of the second World War was to sink the entire French fleet on the grounds that they didn't want to it to fall into German hands, which they viewed as inevitable. This was before Germany invaded France, mind you. This was one democratic nation performing a direct, unprovoked attack on another allied nation with not even the slightest possibility of future hostilities by the current government. Ugly a decision as it was, it was the correct decision to make.

In contrast, the Rainbow Warrior was under the control of Greenpeace, which has been known to engage in illegal operations in furtherance of their goal. I'm not saying it's immoral, per say (although I believe that several of its acts are), but they definitely perform illegal acts. The reason why they bombed it in the port of a friendly nation was because that's the only way they can sneak their special forces onto it. They didn't shell the hell out of it in port like you're implying.

One of the first moves the English government did at the beginning of the second World War was to sink the entire French fleet on the grounds that they didn't want to it to fall into German hands, which they viewed as inevitable. This was before Germany invaded France, mind you. This was one democratic nation performing a direct, unprovoked attack on another allied nation with not even the slightest possibility of future hostilities by the current government. Ugly a decision as it was, it was the correct decision to make.

In contrast, the Rainbow Warrior was under the control of Greenpeace, which has been known to engage in illegal operations in furtherance of their goal. I'm not saying it's immoral, per say (although I believe that several of its acts are), but they definitely perform illegal acts. The reason why they bombed it in the port of a friendly nation was because that's the only way they can sneak their special forces onto it. They didn't shell the hell out of it in port like you're implying.

What are you smoking? The British never sunk the entire French navy at the onset of WWII. They attacked a fleet based in Algeria after the armistice in 1940, and attacked again another French fleet in Dakar in an attempt to take the port the same year. However, the French fleet based in Toulon, on the Mediterranean sea, scuttled itself rather than fall in German hands

tmarkt - I find nothing wrong with the police going after people who want and/or distribute child porn.

and then they came for the free-thinkers. and the ones of a different color. and the ones of a different religion. and the ones of a different ethnic background.and on and on and on....one small step at a time into the pot of boiling water.

And people here forget why the american forefathers KNEW that we needed a 2nd amendment. you MUST have the power to return government to the people when it gets oppressive.