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And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

What was that single player star wars game that you started off as Vader? MMO's should do that, have the intro zone demonstrate the potential instead of giving you the absolute most mind boggling useless and boring skills to ease you into the game.

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Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by GrayKodiak

The problem with western MMO's is they can not get out of the WoW mold. Spying and Espionage only work in a open or semi open PvP or at least Realm vs Realm type of game. Spying would be zero fun if all you had to worry about was those lame npc's that patrol the bases, in fact if that was all you had to worry about I am sure the developers would feel the need to disable some of your abilities while you were doing spying so you could not exploit the AI, for instance the super jumps and wall climbs would probably be out as the AI can not deal well with those...or they would do like TSW and give every AI character a ranged magic attack.

It is because in AoW you also have to worry about other players, that they can let you go in and do what you want because...exploit the AI all day...the AI isn't the one who is going to jump off a roof and turn your spy mission upside down in a heartbeat. But even just having PvP wouldn't make the spy missions work they had to

A) have permanent places for each faction that were fully approachable by the other factions (Schools)

This means no walls, no uber npc guards who one shot kill, no barriers.

B) have a reason people would actually be at those factions

This means you can not have a single social hub where everyone congregates, nor can you have everyone in raids and dungeons all the time. AoW does this with its cultivation methods, another method could be exp absorption which I have seen used before...but modern players don't seem to care much for the exp absorption model.

The same place you turn your spy mission in at is the same place other spies come to spy. I think this was important as it ensured the school houses didn't become waste lands...they have Team Practice spots, a small boost to exp absorption, the redemption spot for breaking school rules,and the spy mission giver..so there are going to be people around for whatever reason willing to hunt spies.

Agreed, most Western developers seem to be very scared of alienating the holy casual/PvE/WoW crowd by making an actual oPvP game where player conflict (and thus cooperation) is at the core and not added as an extra ride. I mean even games like WAR which was sold as a PvP game limited the PvP to closed-off areas or instances, instead of integrating it into the overall design of the game.

Seems like most AAA devs are just trying to please as many people as possible - which means their games turn out to be shallow clones of each other instead of bringing anything new to the table - while the indies that do attempt to make PvP games only bring disgrace to the sandbox genre with their amateurism and shoddy business practices.

AoW does so many things right when it comes to making the different mechanics tie in to each other and the oPvP of the game world that most current Western games pale in comparison, which is promising and alarming at the same time. Tbh i had loved it if this game was made in the West but it's not, and it's kinda sad that people dismiss it as "too Asian" while mediocre titles like GW2 are heralded as revolutionary. If AoW was made by a Western AAA developer and had a fantasy theme, most people who like to pretend they're into innovative game design would probably be all over it and it would be hyped beyond reason.

Not only does it make oPvP work balance-wise and solve several problems that the indie oPvP games have been struggling with for years (a working alignment system, no artificial safezones, harsh penalties for mindless ganking, actual player policing, loads of meaningful PvP instead of pointless zerging/ganking/griefing, etc, etc), it also manages to blend this with a player driven economy and an open skill system. It's also a very social game - most of your activities has to do with other players, not NPCs, and you'll not be spending your time in queues or lobbies, but out in the world.

If you can't look behind the "Asian" aestethics (which are fine btw since it's they're influenced by actual history and not by anime or anything like that), you'll be missing things that won't appear in a Western MMO for years.

And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

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And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

What was that single player star wars game that you started off as Vader? MMO's should do that, have the intro zone demonstrate the potential instead of giving you the absolute most mind boggling useless and boring skills to ease you into the game.

Didn't Aion have some dream sequence at lvl 3 or something where you could try flying for a short time? Guess something similar could work in Wushu.

Still, I'm not sure pleasing the instant gratification crowd is the way to go. MMOs are about progression and developing a character - it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the first couple of hours will not be representative of the whole game. Also, I remember logging in for the first time and seeing some awesome dudes flying around kicking each other and whipping chains, running on walls and so on, and that was my carrot right there. It made my noob ass feel really gimped, but at the same time it made me want to experience more.

Not saying AoW has a perfect starter experience, on the contrary. But people need to realize you won't be a martial arts god just because you pushed the "log in" button.

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Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by GrayKodiak

The problem with western MMO's is they can not get out of the WoW mold. Spying and Espionage only work in a open or semi open PvP or at least Realm vs Realm type of game. Spying would be zero fun if all you had to worry about was those lame npc's that patrol the bases, in fact if that was all you had to worry about I am sure the developers would feel the need to disable some of your abilities while you were doing spying so you could not exploit the AI, for instance the super jumps and wall climbs would probably be out as the AI can not deal well with those...or they would do like TSW and give every AI character a ranged magic attack.

It is because in AoW you also have to worry about other players, that they can let you go in and do what you want because...exploit the AI all day...the AI isn't the one who is going to jump off a roof and turn your spy mission upside down in a heartbeat. But even just having PvP wouldn't make the spy missions work they had to

A) have permanent places for each faction that were fully approachable by the other factions (Schools)

This means no walls, no uber npc guards who one shot kill, no barriers.

B) have a reason people would actually be at those factions

This means you can not have a single social hub where everyone congregates, nor can you have everyone in raids and dungeons all the time. AoW does this with its cultivation methods, another method could be exp absorption which I have seen used before...but modern players don't seem to care much for the exp absorption model.

The same place you turn your spy mission in at is the same place other spies come to spy. I think this was important as it ensured the school houses didn't become waste lands...they have Team Practice spots, a small boost to exp absorption, the redemption spot for breaking school rules,and the spy mission giver..so there are going to be people around for whatever reason willing to hunt spies.

Agreed, most Western developers seem to be very scared of alienating the holy casual/PvE/WoW crowd by making an actual oPvP game where player conflict (and thus cooperation) is at the core and not added as an extra ride. I mean even games like WAR which was sold as a PvP game limited the PvP to closed-off areas or instances, instead of integrating it into the overall design of the game.

Seems like most AAA devs are just trying to please as many people as possible - which means their games turn out to be shallow clones of each other instead of bringing anything new to the table - while the indies that do attempt to make PvP games only bring disgrace to the sandbox genre with their amateurism and shoddy business practices.

AoW does so many things right when it comes to making the different mechanics tie in to each other and the oPvP of the game world that most current Western games pale in comparison, which is promising and alarming at the same time. Tbh i had loved it if this game was made in the West but it's not, and it's kinda sad that people dismiss it as "too Asian" while mediocre titles like GW2 are heralded as revolutionary. If AoW was made by a Western AAA developer and had a fantasy theme, most people who like to pretend they're into innovative game design would probably be all over it and it would be hyped beyond reason.

Not only does it make oPvP work balance-wise and solve several problems that the indie oPvP games have been struggling with for years (a working alignment system, no artificial safezones, harsh penalties for mindless ganking, actual player policing, loads of meaningful PvP instead of pointless zerging/ganking/griefing, etc, etc), it also manages to blend this with a player driven economy and an open skill system. It's also a very social game - most of your activities has to do with other players, not NPCs, and you'll not be spending your time in queues or lobbies, but out in the world.

If you can't look behind the "Asian" aestethics (which are fine btw since it's they're influenced by actual history and not by anime or anything like that), you'll be missing things that won't appear in a Western MMO for years.

And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

Entire post is sig worthy

I don't know what is so signature worthy about what he said . The highlighted part is all wrong considering majority of western sandbox MMOS are all about OPVP with exception of sandbox like Saga Of Ryzom which focus on PVE.. Unless you are mixing sandbox with themepark i don't know, what he said makes no sense at all.

Now you may or may not like the western sandbox OPVP games but to exaggerate and say majority of western devs are scared to alienate WOW casual crowd even though those who play WOW are completely different audience from sandbox players.

But i guess you get more cool points if you randomly throw WOW in every post no matter how un related to original topic of discussion.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."-Luke McKinney

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Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by GrayKodiak

The problem with western MMO's is they can not get out of the WoW mold. Spying and Espionage only work in a open or semi open PvP or at least Realm vs Realm type of game. Spying would be zero fun if all you had to worry about was those lame npc's that patrol the bases, in fact if that was all you had to worry about I am sure the developers would feel the need to disable some of your abilities while you were doing spying so you could not exploit the AI, for instance the super jumps and wall climbs would probably be out as the AI can not deal well with those...or they would do like TSW and give every AI character a ranged magic attack.

It is because in AoW you also have to worry about other players, that they can let you go in and do what you want because...exploit the AI all day...the AI isn't the one who is going to jump off a roof and turn your spy mission upside down in a heartbeat. But even just having PvP wouldn't make the spy missions work they had to

A) have permanent places for each faction that were fully approachable by the other factions (Schools)

This means no walls, no uber npc guards who one shot kill, no barriers.

B) have a reason people would actually be at those factions

This means you can not have a single social hub where everyone congregates, nor can you have everyone in raids and dungeons all the time. AoW does this with its cultivation methods, another method could be exp absorption which I have seen used before...but modern players don't seem to care much for the exp absorption model.

The same place you turn your spy mission in at is the same place other spies come to spy. I think this was important as it ensured the school houses didn't become waste lands...they have Team Practice spots, a small boost to exp absorption, the redemption spot for breaking school rules,and the spy mission giver..so there are going to be people around for whatever reason willing to hunt spies.

Agreed, most Western developers seem to be very scared of alienating the holy casual/PvE/WoW crowd by making an actual oPvP game where player conflict (and thus cooperation) is at the core and not added as an extra ride. I mean even games like WAR which was sold as a PvP game limited the PvP to closed-off areas or instances, instead of integrating it into the overall design of the game.

Seems like most AAA devs are just trying to please as many people as possible - which means their games turn out to be shallow clones of each other instead of bringing anything new to the table - while the indies that do attempt to make PvP games only bring disgrace to the sandbox genre with their amateurism and shoddy business practices.

AoW does so many things right when it comes to making the different mechanics tie in to each other and the oPvP of the game world that most current Western games pale in comparison, which is promising and alarming at the same time. Tbh i had loved it if this game was made in the West but it's not, and it's kinda sad that people dismiss it as "too Asian" while mediocre titles like GW2 are heralded as revolutionary. If AoW was made by a Western AAA developer and had a fantasy theme, most people who like to pretend they're into innovative game design would probably be all over it and it would be hyped beyond reason.

Not only does it make oPvP work balance-wise and solve several problems that the indie oPvP games have been struggling with for years (a working alignment system, no artificial safezones, harsh penalties for mindless ganking, actual player policing, loads of meaningful PvP instead of pointless zerging/ganking/griefing, etc, etc), it also manages to blend this with a player driven economy and an open skill system. It's also a very social game - most of your activities has to do with other players, not NPCs, and you'll not be spending your time in queues or lobbies, but out in the world.

If you can't look behind the "Asian" aestethics (which are fine btw since it's they're influenced by actual history and not by anime or anything like that), you'll be missing things that won't appear in a Western MMO for years.

And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

Entire post is sig worthy

I don't know what is so signature worthy about what he said . The highlighted part is all wrong considering majority of western sandbox MMOS are all about OPVP with exception of sandbox like Saga Of Ryzom which focus on PVE.. Unless you are mixing sandbox with themepark i don't know, what he said makes no sense at all.

Now you may or may not like the western sandbox OPVP games but to exaggerate and say majority of western devs are scared to alienate WOW casual crowd even though those who play WOW are completely different audience from sandbox players.

But i guess you get more cool points if you randomly throw WOW in every post no matter how un related to original topic of discussion.

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Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I don't know what is so signature worthy about what he said . The highlighted part is all wrong considering majority of western sandbox MMOS are all about OPVP with exception of sandbox like Saga Of Ryzom which focus on PVE.. Unless you are mixing sandbox with themepark i don't know, what he said makes no sense at all.

Now you may or may not like the western sandbox OPVP games but to exaggerate and say majority of western devs are scared to alienate WOW casual crowd even though those who play WOW are completely different audience from sandbox players.

But i guess you get more cool points if you randomly throw WOW in every post no matter how un related to original topic of discussion.

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And yeah, the combat is clunky - until you get your skills and learn how to fight. You won't be Jet Li the moment you log in, just like you're not gonna lead large-fleet battles in EVE on day one.

What was that single player star wars game that you started off as Vader? MMO's should do that, have the intro zone demonstrate the potential instead of giving you the absolute most mind boggling useless and boring skills to ease you into the game.

IIRC Fallen Earth did this. You started at max level and then through the intro tutroial became a level 1.

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Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I don't know what is so signature worthy about what he said . The highlighted part is all wrong considering majority of western sandbox MMOS are all about OPVP with exception of sandbox like Saga Of Ryzom which focus on PVE.. Unless you are mixing sandbox with themepark i don't know, what he said makes no sense at all.

Now you may or may not like the western sandbox OPVP games but to exaggerate and say majority of western devs are scared to alienate WOW casual crowd even though those who play WOW are completely different audience from sandbox players.

But i guess you get more cool points if you randomly throw WOW in every post no matter how un related to original topic of discussion.

At least you missed some points in reading comprehension.

Why don't you try and re-read what I wrote?

Is AOW a AAA sandbox? if it is your comparison with AAA developers in west would make sense. When i played AOW i didn't feel i was playing a AAA sandbox games. Felt like a cheap F2P game from Perfect World Entertainment.

However, if it is nnot a AAA sandbox than i come back to my original point that wests in devs mostly focus on sandbox games which are OPVP.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."-Luke McKinney

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Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Is AOW a AAA sandbox? if it is your comparison with AAA developers in west would make sense. When i played AOW i didn't feel i was playing a AAA sandbox games. Felt like a cheap F2P game from Perfect World Entertainment.

However, if it is nnot a AAA sandbox than i come back to my original point that wests in devs mostly focus on sandbox games which are OPVP.

Sorry but you're not making any sense at all. What is your point again?

I was comparing AoW to Western MMOs in general. My point was that the AAA companies lack the balls to make a well designed oPvP game and that the indies, while having the balls, lack the skills and resources. That's why there are no games like AoW coming from the West, even though many of us would like there to be.

But you wouldn't know what I'm talking about, now would you? Judging by your "cheap f2p" comment you've hardly seen enough to know what Wushu's about.

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It is sad that western mmo don’t put thought into pvp systems and instead just separate the pvp from the actual game. The spy missions and the pvp from them would have been perfect setting wise for TSW.

I think western developers also cater too much to the certain crybaby type of pve player ( most are not like that) and I am talking about the ones who always complain about pvp even when it is optional and think that is only about high level players ganking low levels.

The thing is I play mmos to interact with other players and I find scripted pve events to be boring, I think that AoW did a great job at implementing the pvp system right into the actual game which I believe makes the world feel much more alive, whereas the western mmos ( swtor,gw2 and tsw) failed because in a way they created two different games ( pvp and pve ) within their games instead of just making one game.

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Sounds really boring. Especially the part you had to wait 1 hour because someone paid 40 silver as a bounty. FUN

this game is just focuses on too many real aspects, and time restrictions. For a sandbox, I don't like being restricted and told I can't do this because of how the game works.

Jail time serves the purpose of detering rampant ganking and murder. So the freedom of being able to attack anyone anywhere comes with the price of risking jail if you kill people left and right for no legitimate reason. Also, you can avoid jail (at least for a time) by being better than the players who try to catch you.

That's called balance, which is essential in a well designed game.

If you prefer the freedom of unchecked murder rampages and noob griefing, log in to Mortal Online or something.

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@#$$ I'm drained. It was a slow day for most the day, I wasn't pushing things. I hooked up with a fellow bandit anout an hour before the script steal event. I lost count how many carts we robbed. Had o be about 12 or 13 I ended up with 49 [bad goods] each can be exchanged for 10 xp pills. The more xp I have the more days free to do what ever I want. 490 xp about 5 days worth for me.

During the script steal, I was so f'n close. First right at the start, I got caught getting on my horse trying to make it to the boat man. The second 22 minutes later, about 2 minutes before the event ended, I killed a guy on the road right where you leave the scene. I ran through and was like F yeah! I ported back to my school and began the run up to the librarian. I got about half way up the winding hill, and the event ended.... Book gone... You talk about an emotional roller coster ride.

I hooked back up with the friend I made earlier and robbed 2 or 3 more carts. I couldn't focus though, the scipt event took it all out of me.

I just set up my stall. Gonna relax for about 1/2 hour then jump in the school war!!!! I need to go to bed...

edit-I gained about 30 evil today . I may have moved into the top 50 evil too. All in all, a pretty good day.

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Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Is AOW a AAA sandbox? if it is your comparison with AAA developers in west would make sense. When i played AOW i didn't feel i was playing a AAA sandbox games. Felt like a cheap F2P game from Perfect World Entertainment.

However, if it is nnot a AAA sandbox than i come back to my original point that wests in devs mostly focus on sandbox games which are OPVP.

Sorry but you're not making any sense at all. What is your point again?

I was comparing AoW to Western MMOs in general. My point was that the AAA companies lack the balls to make a well designed oPvP game and that the indies, while having the balls, lack the skills and resources. That's why there are no games like AoW coming from the West, even though many of us would like there to be.

But you wouldn't know what I'm talking about, now would you? Judging by your "cheap f2p" comment you've hardly seen enough to know what Wushu's about.

Sorry if it felt cheap F2P game to me. But that doesn't mena i didn't give it a good try. I already said that there are some good things about AOW but i couldn't get past the F2P cheap quality of the game.

However, my point was simple. You were complainign about how AAA western devs dont have balls to make a MMO like AOW. So i simply asked is AOW a AAA MMO? because as far as indie MMO goes, western devs are putting their best effort in bringing us as many OPVP sandboxes as possible and new line ups for announced sandbox titles prove that.

So where does these high expectations come from? because you played AOW ? what abotu games like Repopulation from west? i tried beta and i would take it over AOW any day.

"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'-Jesse Schell

"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."-Luke McKinney

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Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Sorry if it felt cheap F2P game to me. But that doesn't mena i didn't give it a good try. I already said that there are some good things about AOW but i couldn't get past the F2P cheap quality of the game.

However, my point was simple. You were complainign about how AAA western devs dont have balls to make a MMO like AOW. So i simply asked is AOW a AAA MMO? because as far as indie MMO goes, western devs are putting their best effort in bringing us as many OPVP sandboxes as possible and new line ups for announced sandbox titles prove that.

So where does these high expectations come from? because you played AOW ? what abotu games like Repopulation from west? i tried beta and i would take it over AOW any day.

Repop sure looks promising but it's not released yet. Also, it's made by an indie dev like every other Western sandbox MMO, and in my experience that means it should be approached with caution and skepticism.

During the last couple of years I've played most of the sandbox games made in the West (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Xsyon, Earthrise, Salem, and Linkrealms), all of them made by small, inexperienced teams on shoestring budgets. All of them failed to deliver one way or another. They were either incomplete feature-wise, void of content, horribly designed, or bugged like hell, and sometimes - like with ER, Xsyon and MO - all of the above. Add slow development cycles due to the low budgets and amateurish conduct by the devs due to their lack of professional experience, and you've got a bunch of broken games that only appeal to a tiny speck of people.

Compared to this fiasco of a Western sandbox scene, AoW is certainly AAA. Coming from these games I'd say it's a fucking miracle of good design and professional coding. It looks good, it plays good, the animations and gameplay are responsive and fluid, it's fully fleshed out feature-wise, there are no game breaking bugs, dupes, or exploits, no stupid core design flaws killing the oPvP, no rampant griefing and asshatery, no bot armies, no required macros or 3d party programs, etc. It just works.

It has flaws of course, but I'll still play it over any other contemporary MMO.

Also, given its popularity in China, it has a secure funding and a steady development cycle which means we're looking at years of content and feature updates ahead of us if things goes well on the Western market.

Don't know whether any Western devs will give us any solid sandboxes any time soon. EQN is supposedly a sandbox but no one knows jack shit about that game yet. Repop is in beta but as I said, it's indie so I'm not counting on a smooth launch there. DFUW is stuck in "beta" (more like an alpha from what I hear) and AV is such a clown company that I refuse to take them seriously. Got some other titles like Greed Monger, EoC and Pathfinder on the horizon but yet again: indie devs, slow development, Kickstarter campaigns, lack of substantial info, etc.

You want to wait around and keep your hopes up for a flourishing Western sandbox scene some time in future, that's fine. Me, I prefer to play a functional, fun game that's up and running as we speak. If you can't look beyond your personal prejudices of what makes a game "cheap f2p", it's your loss.

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Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Doogiehowser

Sorry if it felt cheap F2P game to me. But that doesn't mena i didn't give it a good try. I already said that there are some good things about AOW but i couldn't get past the F2P cheap quality of the game.

However, my point was simple. You were complainign about how AAA western devs dont have balls to make a MMO like AOW. So i simply asked is AOW a AAA MMO? because as far as indie MMO goes, western devs are putting their best effort in bringing us as many OPVP sandboxes as possible and new line ups for announced sandbox titles prove that.

So where does these high expectations come from? because you played AOW ? what abotu games like Repopulation from west? i tried beta and i would take it over AOW any day.

Repop sure looks promising but it's not released yet. Also, it's made by an indie dev like every other Western sandbox MMO, and in my experience that means it should be approached with caution and skepticism.

During the last couple of years I've played most of the sandbox games made in the West (Darkfall, Mortal Online, Xsyon, Earthrise, Salem, and Linkrealms), all of them made by small, inexperienced teams on shoestring budgets. All of them failed to deliver one way or another. They were either incomplete feature-wise, void of content, horribly designed, or bugged like hell, and sometimes - like with ER, Xsyon and MO - all of the above. Add slow development cycles due to the low budgets and amateurish conduct by the devs due to their lack of professional experience, and you've got a bunch of broken games that only appeal to a tiny speck of people.

Compared to this fiasco of a Western sandbox scene, AoW is certainly AAA. Coming from these games I'd say it's a fucking miracle of good design and professional coding. It looks good, it plays good, the animations and gameplay are responsive and fluid, it's fully fleshed out feature-wise, there are no game breaking bugs, dupes, or exploits, no stupid core design flaws killing the oPvP, no rampant griefing and asshatery, no bot armies, no required macros or 3d party programs, etc. It just works.

It has flaws of course, but I'll still play it over any other contemporary MMO.

Also, given its popularity in China, it has a secure funding and a steady development cycle which means we're looking at years of content and feature updates ahead of us if things goes well on the Western market.

Don't know whether any Western devs will give us any solid sandboxes any time soon. EQN is supposedly a sandbox but no one knows jack shit about that game yet. Repop is in beta but as I said, it's indie so I'm not counting on a smooth launch there. DFUW is stuck in "beta" (more like an alpha from what I hear) and AV is such a clown company that I refuse to take them seriously. Got some other titles like Greed Monger, EoC and Pathfinder on the horizon but yet again: indie devs, slow development, Kickstarter campaigns, lack of substantial info, etc.

You want to wait around and keep your hopes up for a flourishing Western sandbox scene some time in future, that's fine. Me, I prefer to play a functional, fun game that's up and running as we speak. If you can't look beyond your personal prejudices of what makes a game "cheap f2p", it's your loss.

I guess the experince with AOW is going to vary from person to paerson. To me it felt low quality, clunky and combat was the worst part of all the features. However, as far as AAA title goes it has nothing to do with how you feel but the actual budgest behind the game. And i really doubt AOW can be considered as a AAA title .

But then again it is unfair to expect that some AAA devs to gamble with their money on high quality sandboxes when you are getting low quality indie MMOS like AOW from asia and holding them up as some new standard for comparison. And it is not my prejudice but how i felt while playing the game,

If Asia has its AOW west has Repopulation. But although far in future World Of Darkness is going to be the first AAA title from west. So nope all is not doom and gloom like you are tryign to project.

I understand you are enjoying the game but this first month romance is nothing new on these forums. Where people go voer the board in praising the new MMO and try to make it something it is not. I tried it myself and i suggest others do the same and find it out for themselves if AOW is a quality AAA title which puts western devs to shame.

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Originally posted by Doogiehowser

I guess the experince with AOW is going to vary from person to paerson. To me it felt low quality, clunky and combat was the worst part of all the features. However, as far as AAA title goes it has nothing to do with how you feel but the actual budgest behind the game. And i really doubt AOW can be considered as a AAA title .

But then again it is unfair to expect that some AAA devs to gamble with their money on high quality sandboxes when you are getting low quality indie MMOS like AOW from asia and holding them up as some new standard for comparison. And it is not my prejudice but how i felt while playing the game,

If Asia has its AOW west has Repopulation. But although far in future World Of Darkness is going to be the first AAA title from west. So nope all is not doom and gloom like you are tryign to project.

I understand you are enjoying the game but this first month romance is nothing new on these forums. Where people go voer the board in praising the new MMO and try to make it something it is not. I tried it myself and i suggest others do the same and find it out for themselves if AOW is a quality AAA title which puts western devs to shame.

Now you're rambling again and your point, if there is one, is lost.

First of all AoW is not indie. It has millions of players in China and Snail is a big company, so any comparison to Western indie devs where like 5 guys work on the game in their free time is just moot. The money is there if that's what you're concerned about. To me quality matters more than company budgets, but at least stable financials usually means professional coders and artists, and thus a more polished product (even if it certainly not guarantees good design, which recent AAA titles have shown.

As for your experience of the game it's kind of obvious that you just played for a few hours at the most, so please don't talk about quality when you haven't experienced more than the starter tutorial (which is horrible, no question). You don't like the game and that's ok, but that's personal preference based on your perception of what "cheap f2p" means (i.e. prejudice), not a factual statement about the game's actual features or design. But please feel free to elaborate on why it's low quality, rather than just repeating your personal, subjective sentiment.

And yeah, some of us here might be a bit in love with this game. After all, it's a breath of fresh air on the stale MMO market and to me it was a surprise hit - I totally expected it to be "just another Asian ptw grinder" so I was really pleasantly surprised. But I am not blind to its flaws; there are issues (mostly translations, starter experience, risk of turning into ptw) but nothing that's serious enough to keep me from playing it. After all there's simply nothing else to play right now if you like oPvP and freeform play and also happen to prefer a working game.