@JohnyT wrote:If your child had been abducted but blood and cadaver dogs alerted to these scents in your room, wouldn't you be DEMANDING to know more about the alerts rather than calling them unreliable?JohnyT

Lie detector tests are only trustworthy if the right questions are asked using only the suspects own words.

A paedophile could pass a lie detector if ask if he molested little Tiffany (when he did) and he says no.In his mind he was tickling, cuddling, wrestling with little Tiffany.To him molestation could mean he hurt her, she cried.If she did neither then it wasn't molestation in his mind.

The polygrapher would have to start by asking if he touched little Tiffany and from there where he touched her, was it over or under her clothes, what he touched her with and, just as importantly if little Tiffany touched him! since it is not unheard of for child abusers and child rapists to claim their victim came onto them, forced themselves on him or even raped him!

____________________The little unremembered acts of kindness and love are the best parts of a person's life.

@plebgate wrote:oh well if it's that simple to fool the tester then I wonder why they haven't done one?

In fact Jeremy Kyle's clients now know how to fool the tester as well as their cheated on partners. lol.

Except that many people are aware that it is fairly easy to get an inconclusive lie test. On JK it seems to be done with various legal and illegal drugs.

If the McCann's took a lie detector, and came back that they both had inconclusive results, it would not help their case. Especially not with 2 inconclusives! (bad English, I know).

I agree, they would just not do it. It's a control issue. If they did it, it would also give some of the concerns people have legitimacy. It's like the reconstruction, they refuse to do it so there is a type of stalemate but that stalemate is in their control, the ball is still in their court. There are possible outcomes outside their control with a reconstruction or lie detector test. I think they only gamble when the odds are really in their favour.

The applicants alluded to the “ostensible contradiction of grounds”, because in the acórdão it was considered that the archiving of the crime process was determined because it was not possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the applicants, while in the archiving dispatch what is said is that it occurred "because there existed no indicia that they have committed any crime, in terms of the provisions of Article 277 no. 1 of the CPP."

It will be stated, immediately, that the nullity invoked consists in there being contradiction between the grounds and the decision and not between the grounds.

In any case, it will always be said that the invoked contradiction doesn’t exist because, in our view, although the archiving dispatch alludes to the provisions of Article 277 nº1 (note that point 15 of the proven factual matter does not include the reference to that article), what is relevant is the content of the dispatch and not the citation of the legal provision.

Now, what stands out, manifestly, from that dispatch is that it was not issued because the Public Ministry had acquired the conviction that the applicants did not commit any crime, but because it was not possible for the Public Ministry to obtain sufficient indicia of the practice of crime by the applicants.

That is, the archiving will have been determined under Article 277 nº2 of the CPP, and not under nº1, of that article, although the latter is the article quoted in the dispatch.

Because of that it was understood, in the acórdão, that it would not seem acceptable to consider that the referred dispatch should be equated as evidence of inocentation [inocentação].

In fact, it is not said anywhere in that dispatch, that there was collected enough proof that no crime was committed or that the then defendants (now applicants) did not practice it in any way. (as per Art. 277, nº. 1).

The fact that the "Note for the Media” issued by the PGR on the same day the archiving dispatch was issued informs that the inquiry could be reopened "if new elements of proof appeared which would originate to serious, pertinent and consequential diligences", points out, precisely, to the conclusion that the dispatch was issued under the provisions of article 277, nº2 of the CPP.

In fact, if the inquiry had been closed under the provisions of nº2 of the same article, it could not be reopened (as per CPP, commented, 2016, 2nd edition, by Henriques Gaspar, Santos Cabral, Maia Costa, Oliveira Mendes, Pereeira Madeira e Henriques da Graça, pgs 929, 932 and 933).

In any event, it was only intended to counter the applicants' assertion that, with the alluded dispatch, had been made proof of the inocentation.

Thus, in one way or another, whatever the grounds for the archiving of the inquiry and the preclusive effects of the respective decision (the latter has no "judged case" strength, which reports exclusively to decisions of a jurisdictional nature, but that of a "decided case" or "almost judged case" ” – as per the quoted pgs 929 e 932), we would always understand that public criticism and public scrutiny of the functioning of justice, as stated in the acórdão, were not impeded.

That is, we would always conclude that the principle of presumption of innocence would not be relevant for the decision on the question that was to be decided.

It will therefore be concluded that the acórdão doesn’t suffer with the nullities of b) and c) of the nº1 of artº 616º of the CPC, applicable ex vi of the combined provisions of arts 666º, nº1 and 685º of the same Code.

By what was said, the argumentation of nullities of pgs 2793 and following is rejected, sentencing the applicants in the costs of the incident that caused them.

It doesn't matter which way things are carved up/rearranged/or whichever you wish to analyse it.

The McCanns took Goncalo Amaral to a civil court and lost.

Quite why the McCanns chose a court battle in Portugal where they actually did manage to turn up with Martin Brunt kneeling before them (there are photograph references of this) beats most ordinary people.

What the McCanns did to silence Tony Bennett was to never enter a British Court. Tony Bennett was faced with a contempt of court trial where he was faced with a QC and several barristers with around 125 breaches of an undertaking (which they were asked to slim down) he had made because he didn't have enough money to fight the likes of Carter Ruck being thrust at him.

The Daily Express gave an extraordinary amount of money to the McCanns when they were taken to task.

I'm a bit confused about something, so sorry if this is a silly question, but I think I saw a comment somewhere on here a few days ago (can't seem to find it now) where someone mentioned the PJ investigation being closed. I thought it had reopened and was still ongoing? Has that changed recently? Thanks.

@Constablekid wrote:I'm a bit confused about something, so sorry if this is a silly question, but I think I saw a comment somewhere on here a few days ago (can't seem to find it now) where someone mentioned the PJ investigation being closed. I thought it had reopened and was still ongoing? Has that changed recently? Thanks.

I can only say that no police investigation into a missing child is ever closed. Shelved pending further evidence but never closed.

That's all I think needs to be kept in mind.

____________________“ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

I do however feel that the Portuguese authorities were compromised into re-opening the case by the UK authorities back in 2013. Thinking about it, if the UK (as in Operation Grange) were wishing to invade Portuguese territory to further their investigation, which I believe was/is the case, I guess the Portuguese had no option but to re-open the case.

In short, I don't think the Portuguese police are actively continuing to investigate the case, only co-operating with the UK forces because they have no choice.

I sympathize with the Portuguese. They are being treated infamously by the UK establishment - all because two British non-entities failed to care for their precious little child.

____________________“ The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made" - Groucho Marx

Yes it does matter! And anyone with half a brain should care! There is an excellent English translation on here of this very important Supreme Court document.Please read it first, reflect, and then give us the benefit, as always, of your unparalleled wisdom...

Eddie and Keela alerted to items and places concerned with the McCanns - and importantly to no other items or places.

According to Eddie and Keela, the body of Madeleine McCann lay lifeless behind the sofa in Apartment 5a, clinging to the only thing from which she could derive any comfort; a soft toy called 'Cuddle cat'.

Former Met Police Chief Lord Stevens:"There was no hard evidence because of the sheer inadequacy of the Portuguese investigation. There's absolutely no chance the parents of Madeleine McCann would be charged with her murder in this country. I've been a detective at the most senior level for 30 years and have never seen such a witch-hunt, or one based on such flimsy evidence."

Ch Insp Tavares de Almeida: "Kate and Gerald McCann are involved in the concealment of the cadaver of their daughter Madeleine McCann. From what has been established up to now, everything indicates that the McCann couple, in self-defence, doesn't want to deliver the cadaver immediately and voluntarily."

Kate's book 'madeleine', Page 219: "Did they really believe that a dog could smell the 'odour of death' three months later from a body that had been so swiftly removed?"

After forensic analysis of the 'Last Photo' there is little doubt now that the pool photo CANNOT POSSIBLY have been taken on the Thursday 3rd May, but most likely on the Sunday 29th April. So, where was Madeleine at lunchtime on Thursday? We don't know, but we can begin to "purport theories" based both on strong evidence, and lack of evidence.

Dr Gonçalo Amaral, retired PJ Coordinator: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened, they don't need to investigate anything. When MI5 opens their files, then we will know the truth."

Ex-Met DCI Colin Sutton: "The most likely scenario is that Madeleine was stolen to order by slave traders and smuggled into Africa for a rich family who wanted a white child."

Ex-Met DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC1's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window' of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the staged abduction to happen.

Tracey Kandohla: "A McCann pal told The Sun Online: "Some of the savings have been siphoned off from the Find Maddie Fund into a fixed asset account, which financial experts have advised them to do. It can be used for purchases like buying a house or building equipment."

Gerry McCann called for an example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014 after a 'Dossier' was handed in to Police by McCann supporters. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room the next day. Brenda paid the price.