(03-31-2018 09:05 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: So according to the "NIU should have elevated their program because they made the Orange Bowl" posters, Loyola should be expected to be have at least several sweet sixteen appearances over the next 5 years. And if they don't make it out of the first round, or god forbid they do not make the tournament, the coach is a complete failure and has ruined this opportunity.

Two different sports, terrible comparison.

+1 agree this is not a good comparison. Earning a Final 4 appearance in basketball is much different beast, than luckily get an Orange Bowl bid. Also Loyola has already benefited from the exposure. Doesn’t mean they’ll be great next year though. It’s going to be hard to replace the seniors that are leaving, and they will possibly lose their coach to a big payout somewhere else. Here’s an article of the uptick they’ve already had: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoda.../475508002

(03-31-2018 09:05 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: So according to the "NIU should have elevated their program because they made the Orange Bowl" posters, Loyola should be expected to be have at least several sweet sixteen appearances over the next 5 years. And if they don't make it out of the first round, or god forbid they do not make the tournament, the coach is a complete failure and has ruined this opportunity.

Sweet 16 is proportionately equal to finishing 6th in fbs.

Just making the ncaa tournament is proportionately equal to 25th in fbs.

Moser built that program from ground zero (no ncaa or nit in 33 years) to the Final Four. What he did was a miracle. Even if Loyola reverted back, no one could hold it against him. He built the whole thing from nothing.

This is why no one rational could ever be upset at Novak in 2007 (2-10). What Moser did would be the equivalent of if Joe Novak took NIU from the D1 dumpster to a bcs bowl in 2003. Like Moser, Novak built NIU himself.

Moser and Novak built mountains out of molehills. Carey’s case is different.

(03-31-2018 09:05 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: So according to the "NIU should have elevated their program because they made the Orange Bowl" posters, Loyola should be expected to be have at least several sweet sixteen appearances over the next 5 years. And if they don't make it out of the first round, or god forbid they do not make the tournament, the coach is a complete failure and has ruined this opportunity.

Two different sports, terrible comparison.

+1 agree this is not a good comparison. Earning a Final 4 appearance in basketball is much different beast, than luckily get an Orange Bowl bid. Also Loyola has already benefited from the exposure. Doesn’t mean they’ll be great next year though. It’s going to be hard to replace the seniors that are leaving, and they will possibly lose their coach to a big payout somewhere else. Here’s an article of the uptick they’ve already had: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoda.../475508002

So why then should Loyola not be expected to reap huge benefits from this? Is it not easier to improve a team of 5 starters than a team of 22? The comparison is bad because Loyola should be expected to do more with this final four than NIU did with the Orange Bowl. They had way more exposure and the basketball world feels they earned their way there unlike NIU's backdoor Orange bowl.

The issue isn't NIU's "backdoor Orange Bowl". The issue was the next season when the Fiesta Bowl against Alabama was all lined up and we got destroyed by Bowling Green in the MAC Championship game. Back to back BCS appearance (one non-"backdoor") would have done wonders for the program. That one game is still the pivotal three hours to put us where we are today.

To throw Loyola into the fire and expect them to become a perennial Sweet 16 team is just ludicrous. 95+% chance they go the route of George Mason over the next handful of years as opposed to Duke, NC, etc. Loyola has reaped benefits from this, as did we with our Orange Bowl appearance. And it's not easer to improve a team of five at the MVC, MAC level---it takes probably four years to keep a roster stable and most of those players from Loyola will be gone next year. And, if you need any proof on how hard it is to keep a stable roster, please take a gander at NIU's Convocation Center.

Losing one of the five starters generally is a bigger loss than losing one of 22 starters. It’s also much more critical to hit a home run with a basketball recruit than a football recruit. With so few guys (13) in basketball compared to (85) in football much less room for errors

I'm not expecting Loyola to make a big leap from this. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is by some to hold Carey or Frazier responsible for NIU not becoming a powerhouse because of that Orange Bowl. Just like Loyola wont become a perennial sweet sixteen team.

At the end of the day, NIU is NIU. Loyola is Loyola. Same facilities. Same money. Same fan base. You may get a few extra looks from recruits, but when they see what you have to offer, and what aP5 can offer, that bowl game or tourney appearance matters less.

Making the Final Four or Orange Bowl is half the battle. Winning it is what puts you over the top.

Making the Sugar Bowl may or may not have helped. If you got blown out by Baylor, and NIU would have, their defense was way worse in 13 than 12, it just reinforces what the football world believes. You HAVE TO WIN that bowl to get respect.

One thing for certain is nobody will forget their run to the Final Four and definitely nobody will forget Sister Jean. They got worldwide news attention because of Sister Jean. We begrudgingly got local news attention. Lol

(04-01-2018 01:36 PM)BDB5yp Wrote: One thing for certain is nobody will forget their run to the Final Four and definitely nobody will forget Sister Jean. They got worldwide news attention because of Sister Jean. We begrudgingly got local news attention. Lol

Well, we certainly got more national than local news, but nowhere near what Loyola has gotten. And all of their publicity was positive, while much of ours was "crashing the party" comments. I'm happy for Loyola.

(04-01-2018 08:55 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote: The issue isn't NIU's "backdoor Orange Bowl". The issue was the next season when the Fiesta Bowl against Alabama was all lined up and we got destroyed by Bowling Green in the MAC Championship game. Back to back BCS appearance (one non-"backdoor") would have done wonders for the program. That one game is still the pivotal three hours to put us where we are today.

To throw Loyola into the fire and expect them to become a perennial Sweet 16 team is just ludicrous. 95+% chance they go the route of George Mason over the next handful of years as opposed to Duke, NC, etc. Loyola has reaped benefits from this, as did we with our Orange Bowl appearance. And it's not easer to improve a team of five at the MVC, MAC level---it takes probably four years to keep a roster stable and most of those players from Loyola will be gone next year. And, if you need any proof on how hard it is to keep a stable roster, please take a gander at NIU's Convocation Center.

(04-01-2018 08:55 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote: The issue isn't NIU's "backdoor Orange Bowl". The issue was the next season when the Fiesta Bowl against Alabama was all lined up and we got destroyed by Bowling Green in the MAC Championship game. Back to back BCS appearance (one non-"backdoor") would have done wonders for the program. That one game is still the pivotal three hours to put us where we are today.

To throw Loyola into the fire and expect them to become a perennial Sweet 16 team is just ludicrous. 95+% chance they go the route of George Mason over the next handful of years as opposed to Duke, NC, etc. Loyola has reaped benefits from this, as did we with our Orange Bowl appearance. And it's not easer to improve a team of five at the MVC, MAC level---it takes probably four years to keep a roster stable and most of those players from Loyola will be gone next year. And, if you need any proof on how hard it is to keep a stable roster, please take a gander at NIU's Convocation Center.

X2. Great post.

He gets it.

If the Huskies got destroyed by BG, what do you think Alabama would have done to them? Though I’m pretty sure the Fiesta had Baylor scheduled and when NIU lost, UCF stepped in. Notice which G5’s went on to bigger things and what they have in common. Boise st, TCU, Utah, UCF. They WON their major bowl.

Sure it would have been great to get the chance. Personally, I think NIU would have got smoked. And yes, I’d rather have gotten there and lost than have not got there at all. But I feel losing 2, and badly, just makes people think you never belonged there. If you feel just getting there twice is enough, I can’t prove that right or wrong. History has shown getting to one and losing has done very little to change a programs fortunes. Twice, guess we will never know.

(04-01-2018 08:55 AM)Milwaukee Pilot Wrote: The issue isn't NIU's "backdoor Orange Bowl". The issue was the next season when the Fiesta Bowl against Alabama was all lined up and we got destroyed by Bowling Green in the MAC Championship game. Back to back BCS appearance (one non-"backdoor") would have done wonders for the program. That one game is still the pivotal three hours to put us where we are today.

To throw Loyola into the fire and expect them to become a perennial Sweet 16 team is just ludicrous. 95+% chance they go the route of George Mason over the next handful of years as opposed to Duke, NC, etc. Loyola has reaped benefits from this, as did we with our Orange Bowl appearance. And it's not easer to improve a team of five at the MVC, MAC level---it takes probably four years to keep a roster stable and most of those players from Loyola will be gone next year. And, if you need any proof on how hard it is to keep a stable roster, please take a gander at NIU's Convocation Center.

X2. Great post.

He gets it.

If the Huskies got destroyed by BG, what do you think Alabama would have done to them? Though I’m pretty sure the Fiesta had Baylor scheduled and when NIU lost, UCF stepped in. Notice which G5’s went on to bigger things and what they have in common. Boise st, TCU, Utah, UCF. They WON their major bowl.

Sure it would have been great to get the chance. Personally, I think NIU would have got smoked. And yes, I’d rather have gotten there and lost than have not got there at all. But I feel losing 2, and badly, just makes people think you never belonged there. If you feel just getting there twice is enough, I can’t prove that right or wrong. History has shown getting to one and losing has done very little to change a programs fortunes. Twice, guess we will never know.

I don’t know if we would have gotten smoked. We didn’t get smoked by Florida State. My point is that it would have been back to back BCS appearances, the second one without Herbstriet blasting it as we would have been undefeated and really deserved it.

IF we would have had back to back years— the exposure, the everything would have multiplied. And we would have had more money to play with—and the recruiting base would have widened.

And if we did get smoked— then we would have had to live with those consequences.....but we never had the opportunity.

NIU is irrelevant to the Chicago media unless something horrific happens...then the cheeseball fake reporters from Eyewitness 2,5, and7 will all be racing down I88 to Dekalb. I haven't watched the local Chicago news in 30 years and don't plan to start.

(04-02-2018 06:52 PM)Dog Fan Wrote: At least for now, Loyola has become "Chicago's team". The Sun-Times today again had huge articles. I assume they will be getting more than ordinary publicity next season.

NIU is not a Chicago team - never was and never will be. Hence, that's why NIU seemingly got more publicity for the OB nationally than locally.

We should have adopted Rockford instead of Chicago.
We need to have that city all in on the Huskies.

(04-01-2018 09:40 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: I'm not expecting Loyola to make a big leap from this. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is by some to hold Carey or Frazier responsible for NIU not becoming a powerhouse because of that Orange Bowl. Just like Loyola wont become a perennial sweet sixteen team.

At the end of the day, NIU is NIU. Loyola is Loyola. Same facilities. Same money. Same fan base. You may get a few extra looks from recruits, but when they see what you have to offer, and what aP5 can offer, that bowl game or tourney appearance matters less.

Making the Final Four or Orange Bowl is half the battle. Winning it is what puts you over the top.

Making the Sugar Bowl may or may not have helped. If you got blown out by Baylor, and NIU would have, their defense was way worse in 13 than 12, it just reinforces what the football world believes. You HAVE TO WIN that bowl to get respect.

Loyola has a lot more money than NIU can dream of. I grew up blocks from the lakefront campus and get back often. LU has bought big chunks of real estate in Rogers Park and Edgewater, and they're developing it.

(04-02-2018 06:52 PM)Dog Fan Wrote: At least for now, Loyola has become "Chicago's team". The Sun-Times today again had huge articles. I assume they will be getting more than ordinary publicity next season.

NIU is not a Chicago team - never was and never will be. Hence, that's why NIU seemingly got more publicity for the OB nationally than locally.

We should have adopted Rockford instead of Chicago.
We need to have that city all in on the Huskies.

When Rockford built its MetroCentre arena in the early 90s, Huskie basketball played 3 or 4 games a years up there. There was a nice crowd for a DePaul game when the Demons were ranked in the top 10, but eventually fans lost interest, and all home games returned to the fieldhouse. So NIU has tried with Rockford, but it didn't work.