here's some highlights from a couple weeks ago front range schutzhund trial here in denver. most of these pics are of my boss and his mal knox, but there are also some of this really nice doberman with ears and tail going for his sch III (again) and a golden retriever who got his sch II obedience title

I'm not sure about the dog in the picture, but MOST retrievers are not able to do bitework, and MOST trainers are not willing to work a retriever. However, there are some high drive retrievers that are able to do it simply by constantly being worked in prey. Biting, then, become a modified retrieve...

However, that being said, of the ones that are trained to bite, you see very few actually competing in sport (Schutzhund, PSA, ring, etc)....you tend to never get a lab to bite the way you get other dogs (GSD, mals, dutchies, pitties, AB, rotties, etc) to bite. In addition, with the more "suprise scenario" based sports, there is a ton of pressure, most of which is too much for a retriever to handle, and it's not that the dogs are nervy, they're just not bred to take stick hits, etc. I do plan on trying for a PSA PDC and a SchA with Sacha, but I know that it's going to be tough...

I tried to post a picture, but photobucket is being weird at the moment...

no, the golden was obedience only. he got a 91 (good job!) but he didn't have a lot of fire, he was just really consistent and calm and calculated and therefore did very well, but it wasn't competitive material, and i don't think it would translate into bitework at all, but he was a nice dog and is probably just a pet.

The dobe with a tail belongs to Thomas Barriano, and that is Jago, the son of his Sch III bitch, Dodah. I don't know if he plans on staying with Dobes, his youngest up-and-comings are all Dutchies if I recall. Besides he has burned his bridges with the dobe world after his behavior at a national trial...

There is a PSA decoy in UT who has trained his lab in PSA. I don't agree with most of what he does or how he acts, but... yeah, his lab is trained in PSA.

I don't think getting a 91 in OB1 equates with just being a "pet" - that's a pretty admirable score, and while the dog may not have the drive or the ability to do all three phases of Schutzhund, may not be the right "breed" and doesn't have the overpowering presence that a good Mal would. I think just the opposite in many ways - we desire and want a flashy pushy dog, but sometimes being calm, calculated and most of all CONSISTENT is where you win in the long run - I've seen more than one dog fall apart in obedience one day and get 90s the next day - I bet this golden would be in the 90s all the time. Just because you don't bite a sleeve or a suit doesn't mean you are just a pet

On June 29 2007, 10:40 PM, doberkim wrote:The dobe with a tail belongs to Thomas Barriano, and that is Jago, the son of his Sch III bitch, Dodah. I don't know if he plans on staying with Dobes, his youngest up-and-comings are all Dutchies if I recall. Besides he has burned his bridges with the dobe world after his behavior at a national trial...

There is a PSA decoy in UT who has trained his lab in PSA. I don't agree with most of what he does or how he acts, but... yeah, his lab is trained in PSA.

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Greg has been in PSA since it's inception (in fact, he was in the backyard with Joe Morris and Jerry Bradshaw when they came up with it), and he has no idea who you're talking about. He said there are no labs in PSA, and I was told by both Joe and Jerry that if Sacha gets her PDC, she would be the first lab (purebred) to compete in PSA.

If, however, you are referring to Jason (who also does ring), he is not a PSA decoy. He started with labs, but was not training his labs for PSA...he currently trains his Dutchie, Bas, for ring and PSA.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the way the decoy "acts" or the dog. If you are talking about the dog, I'm not sure if the dog was made "mean," but Sacha is the sweetest thing on earth. She loves to do the bitework, but does it (1) to make me happy; (2) because she gets to bring it back to me - a retrieve, and she is a labrador RETRIEVER. If you are talking about the decoy, and you are talking about Jason, I don't know what your experiences were with him (maybe they weren't good ones), but he has always been one of the nicest guys I've met in the sport....

If you are talking about Dwayne - again, very nice guy, and I don't think he deals with labs at all (I spoke to him and his wife, at length, at Nationals)...

On June 29 2007, 10:40 PM, doberkim wrote:The dobe with a tail belongs to Thomas Barriano, and that is Jago, the son of his Sch III bitch, Dodah. I don't know if he plans on staying with Dobes, his youngest up-and-comings are all Dutchies if I recall. Besides he has burned his bridges with the dobe world after his behavior at a national trial...

There is a PSA decoy in UT who has trained his lab in PSA. I don't agree with most of what he does or how he acts, but... yeah, his lab is trained in PSA.

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Greg has been in PSA since it's inception (in fact, he was in the backyard with Joe Morris and Jerry Bradshaw when they came up with it), and he has no idea who you're talking about. He said there are no labs in PSA, and I was told by both Joe and Jerry that if Sacha gets her PDC, she would be the first lab (purebred) to compete in PSA.

If, however, you are referring to Jason (who also does ring), he is not a PSA decoy. He started with labs, but was not training his labs for PSA...he currently trains his Dutchie, Bas, for ring and PSA.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the way the decoy "acts" or the dog. If you are talking about the dog, I'm not sure if the dog was made "mean," but Sacha is the sweetest thing on earth. She loves to do the bitework, but does it (1) to make me happy; (2) because she gets to bring it back to me - a retrieve, and she is a labrador RETRIEVER. If you are talking about the decoy, and you are talking about Jason, I don't know what your experiences were with him (maybe they weren't good ones), but he has always been one of the nicest guys I've met in the sport....

If you are talking about Dwayne - again, very nice guy, and I don't think he deals with labs at all (I spoke to him and his wife, at length, at Nationals)...

Wow, Katrina - calm down! I'm speaking of Jason - and my info of him being a certified PSA decoy came straight from the horses mouth. I never stated he titled his lab (he only has one that I know of, but at the rate Jason moves through dogs when they aren't "right" for him is amazing, I truly admit that he could have a whole herd of labs roaming his yard and I wouldn't know). How he "acts" - has nothing to do with how he decoys, he is a vile disgusting rude person to many people, and I have absolutely no respect for him, irregardless of how well his Dutchie cross works. He didn't start with labs - he started with Dobes.

On June 29 2007, 10:40 PM, doberkim wrote:The dobe with a tail belongs to Thomas Barriano, and that is Jago, the son of his Sch III bitch, Dodah. I don't know if he plans on staying with Dobes, his youngest up-and-comings are all Dutchies if I recall. Besides he has burned his bridges with the dobe world after his behavior at a national trial...

There is a PSA decoy in UT who has trained his lab in PSA. I don't agree with most of what he does or how he acts, but... yeah, his lab is trained in PSA.

I'm not sure who you're referring to. Greg has been in PSA since it's inception (in fact, he was in the backyard with Joe Morris and Jerry Bradshaw when they came up with it), and he has no idea who you're talking about. He said there are no labs in PSA, and I was told by both Joe and Jerry that if Sacha gets her PDC, she would be the first lab (purebred) to compete in PSA.

If, however, you are referring to Jason (who also does ring), he is not a PSA decoy. He started with labs, but was not training his labs for PSA...he currently trains his Dutchie, Bas, for ring and PSA.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the way the decoy "acts" or the dog. If you are talking about the dog, I'm not sure if the dog was made "mean," but Sacha is the sweetest thing on earth. She loves to do the bitework, but does it (1) to make me happy; (2) because she gets to bring it back to me - a retrieve, and she is a labrador RETRIEVER. If you are talking about the decoy, and you are talking about Jason, I don't know what your experiences were with him (maybe they weren't good ones), but he has always been one of the nicest guys I've met in the sport....

If you are talking about Dwayne - again, very nice guy, and I don't think he deals with labs at all (I spoke to him and his wife, at length, at Nationals)...

Wow, Katrina - calm down! I'm speaking of Jason - and my info of him being a certified PSA decoy came straight from the horses mouth. I never stated he titled his lab (he only has one that I know of, but at the rate Jason moves through dogs when they aren't "right" for him is amazing, I truly admit that he could have a whole herd of labs roaming his yard and I wouldn't know). How he "acts" - has nothing to do with how he decoys, he is a vile disgusting rude person to many people, and I have absolutely no respect for him, irregardless of how well his Dutchie cross works. He didn't start with labs - he started with Dobes.

Kim,

I was simply trying to say that (1) he wasn't a PSA decoy (if he said he was, he's not - he's not certified; however, he does train PSA, and does catch dogs for his club - the only one in his club that I know of being certified in PSA is Dwayne, it is also possible that he was at one time certified, but b/c he didn't decoy any trials lost his certification); (2) when Greg met him he did have a lab - they called it the yellow water mastiff (which is where Greg got Sacha's nickname); (3) I'm sorry your experience with him has not been a good one, I was trying to say that my experiences with him have been much different - and, in fact, say

I don't know what your experiences were with him (maybe they weren't good ones), but he has always been one of the nicest guys I've met in the sport....

; (4)I know that he's had Bas for quite some time now (it really doesn't matter which sport he trains for)...

The biggest purpose of my post was to defend training a lab for PSA. A lab will never be as good as the mals, GSDs, and dutchies, but if the lab is having fun, then who cares? Sacha still understands "soft mouth" (as demonstrated when she retrieves dummies and bumpers)...but working on a sleeve is more like a game of tug for her, where she wins and brings the sleeve back to Mommy.

Does it really matter if a dog was "built" for something? I think so many trainers get stuck in the fact that only one type of dog can do something, I have a lot of respect for the trainers who can think "outside the box." This is not meant to be insulting to anyone or any trainer because there are many trainers who only work with one or two breeds, and do so very effectively, and I appreciate seeing good training on a dog.

I'm sorry if I misread your original post. It sounded a bit like you were putting down people who tried to train a lab (or any retriever) for PSA (or any other bitesport). Sacha will never be like Nisha (my female mal) when it comes to bitework. She will never have that "defensive" side like Nisha. She will never be a true PP dog. That's all okay to me because I just want to do what makes her happy. That's what training a dog (to do anything) is all about.

Again, I'm truly sorry if I misread your original post - it's very hard to convey meaning when you don't have vocal tone, etc. I'm also very sorry that I got defensive in my post back to you. I hope that this email helped to explain some of that.

that is tom and jago. i don't know anything about his other dogs or past experience, this is the first time i've ever seen him or his dog, but i thought his dobey was cool and i liked that he had his ears and tail.
i agree that calm consistency is a surefire way to get high scores all the time. when i said "just a pet" i didn't mean that in a derogatory way at all. a lot of people in the working dog world get dogs as working dogs first, never intended to be pets or family members. i got the feeling from this guy that this was not the case with him, this was a dog the guy got as a pet and decided to do some advanced obedience training with him within the boundaries of what he felt his dog was capable of or what he was comfortable doing with him. i assume that's why he was obedience only, but i may be wrong, i wasn't trying to say anything about whether or not the dog could bite, track, hunt, fly, whatever! for the record i consider tre a pet first and a working dog as a hobby and second. so i would also refer to my own dog as "just a pet" even if he did get awesome scores in all areas all the way to the top of the competition world, because although i would be very proud of him and myself, when it came down to it, he would still just be my boy!

I'm sure that Jason Farrish was at one point a PSA certified decoy. I have a UPS K9 trial video in which he decoys.

Wow, Katrina - calm down! I'm speaking of Jason - and my info of him being a certified PSA decoy came straight from the horses mouth. I never stated he titled his lab (he only has one that I know of, but at the rate Jason moves through dogs when they aren't "right" for him is amazing, I truly admit that he could have a whole herd of labs roaming his yard and I wouldn't know). How he "acts" - has nothing to do with how he decoys, he is a vile disgusting rude person to many people, and I have absolutely no respect for him, irregardless of how well his Dutchie cross works. He didn't start with labs - he started with Dobes.

If you have a personal problem with Jason, and it certainly appears that you do, then this board is not the place to take an unprovoked shot at him. I do not know or consider Jason a friend, do not train with Jason, have only met him once over the course of a trial weekend (PSA Nationals 2005). Your comment that he is a "vile disgusting rude person to many people" and that you "have absolutely no respect for him, irregardless of how well his Dutchie cross works" is not something we tolerate here. I know it flies on many other boards, but here we remain professional and civil even when we may vehemently disagree. Please keep this in mind.

Demo Dick

"My first priority will be to reinstate the assault weapons ban PERMANENTLY as soon as I take office...I intend to work with Congress on a national no carry law, 1 gun a month purchase limits, and bans on all semi-automatic guns."-Barack Obama"When in doubt, whip it out."-Nuge

I have a lot of friends in the dog world but unfortunately I guess you are not one of them, but just for the sake of truth and education Id like to clarify a few things.

1: My yellow water mastiff was never "trained for PSA" he was taught to bite a sleeve and suit a little bit so we could train up new decoys and basically have fun with him.

2: I was certified in PSA but I let my certification expire, Dwayne is a much better PSA trial decoy then I am.

3: I dont know where I picked up this "amazing ability" to go through dogs here is my dog history
for 2 years I had my first Dobermann and Lab I sold the Dobermann to a family because he diddnt have it for competition
I then picked up a female dobermann and a little later a ducth shepherd both puppies. The female would not cut it for competition so I sold her to a very famous authors personal assistant.

I still own the labrador (6 years) and the dutch shepherd (4 years) and have no other dogs.

I train for french ring now exclusively as I am trying to get a ring 3 and then I am planning on doing PSA again but there was too much conflict in training between PSA2/3 and ring 2/3.

Doberkim I dont know who you are, I prefer to deal with people not afraid to hide behind aliases, but judging by your enormous falsehoods and venomous nature I cannot help but feel so sorry for you.

I dont know what has happened in your life what kind of broken dreams or dissapointments that have forged you into this unhappy person but I hope your life gets better. I wish you the best and hope that joy begins to creep into those spaces in your heart where only hate lies right now, god bless you and keep you and maybe someday we can break bread together.

Feel free to email me if you want to talk or just need someone to confide to.

To my Maryland crew its good to talk you two crazy lovebirds again I hope all is going well, the torch of the yellow water mastiff is a heavy burden but I know its in capable hands.

On July 03 2007, 4:27 PM, jasonfarrish wrote:To my Maryland crew its good to talk you two crazy lovebirds again I hope all is going well, the torch of the yellow water mastiff is a heavy burden but I know its in capable hands.

Great to see you on here, Jason!!!

Don't worry, Sacha would make you very proud...

We gonna see you anytime soon?

Oh, and I saw the post on the Utah board, congrats to you and your wife!!!

OK, now I know why your on this board! And yes, the legend of the Yellow Water Mastiff lives on! Thank you OH Great one for having such strong confidence in a mere mortal!

Greg

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."