Comments on: No, you cannot be left-wing and pro-lifehttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375
Careful she bitesSun, 02 Aug 2015 22:38:56 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.3By: Keith Emeryhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-53647
Sun, 02 Aug 2015 22:38:56 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-53647Though I agree with your article, it still really frustrates me. “It’s your lack of a womb that makes you less qualified”. I volunteer at multiple domestic violence shelters and advocate for women in hospital helping them obtain ex parte’s. My coworkers are only women basically, I’ve once worked with one man in the past 5 months. When I started I didn’t realize that only women did this work. I think the main reason it’s completely one sided in gender is that domestic violence shelter is only 30 or 40 years old and it was started by women who escaped abuse themselves. I think slowly it will become more gender integrated as it gains more gov’t recognition and funding.
Anyway I’ve had the feeling, though I’m not saying it is a true comparison (it’s just an impulsive thought), that it’s like working with a group let’s say white people escaping hate crimes from minorities, and the only people who work with them in the shelter are other white people.
That may not be a true or fair comparison, it could be embarrassingly fallacious, but the sentiment exists. I don’t know what the most educated view is on this- is gender as illusory as race? I don’t see how your article benefits by saying men can’t understand the issue. It’s very frustrating to want to help but feeling excluded/incapable/divided.
I’m pro choice but I don’t think abortion beyond rape/incest/maternal mortality is a morally obvious question. Just saying pro lifers are fundamentally anti-woman is more destructive than it is illuminating.
I say all this, treading very lightly, these are not convictions just questions, I love my job and working with women all day is awesome, I prefer it to my previous job working construction with all men, and I was raised by a single mother (who had an abortion).
]]>By: Nelsonhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1474
Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:18:26 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1474Yo!

Was reading this and being totally agreeful all the way through .. until I got to the thinly-veiled Assange reference – and it reminded me of something that pissed me off mightily back when the whole thing was assploding all over twitter.

I have to take issue with it – there’s an implication here (“global conspiracy”?) that anyone who thinks that Assange’s asylum claim is genuine and that he faces a real threat is somehow a “rape apologist” or at least sexist. In fact, the “rape apologist” thing is not just an implication, it’s something that’s been said directly to me on twitter (including, most upsettingly, by the otherwise brilliant Sarah Ditum). I’ve tried to explain why this is not the case – though, admittedly, I’ve only tried on Twitter in 140 chars. I might as well have attempted to embroider my thoughts onto someone’s jumper while they’re cycling past me, during a hurricane.

I’m not going to re-hash the legal arguments about the extradition threat. It’s very dull. Suffice it to say that we may well disagree on that. Personally, I’m not sure the legalities are massively relevant – I didn’t think torture was legal, nor Guantanamo, nor the Iraq war. Ho hum. Seems to me that the mighty can make their own laws when they need to.

But this isn’t really about whether or not we disagree – it’s about whether or not we respect each other’s right to disagree on the seriousness of the threat to Assange – without assuming that the other is a CIA agent/idiot/misogynist/George Galloway etc.

What I’m asking here is that you (and anyone else reading this) simply accepts that I (and many, many others like me) believe what I say I believe about the extradition threat. I believed the US was after Assange before the allegations were made, and long before asylum was requested. I believe that Assange has few options available to him to avoid the long reach of US injustice and the risk of imprisonment and torture for his role in Wikileaks. It’s not a political convenience (with all that might imply about my gender politics) and Julian Assange is not my “hero” or “darling”. And it’s not that I think the rape allegations are less important than Assange’s rights. But nor do I think they automatically trump any other concerns in this bizarre and unique case. This is shit I’ve thought about, a lot. I still believe what I say I believe. Yet I meet this, again and again. Back in July, my belief in this US threat merely made me a kooky “conspiracy-theorist”. But I can hardly complain about being mildly patronised by people who reckon they know better – hell, it’s one of my favourite pastimes. Since August though, this same belief has suddenly made me, at best, a thoughtless sexist and, at worst, some kind of misogynist or rape apologist. It’s beyond irritating – it’s massively offensive.

Sorry for long comment on old post, triggered largely by remembered hurt from someone else Hope this finds you well, wise and powerful.

Nelson
x

ps. And to some bloke above me there in the comments… no, you can’t oppose any woman’s right to decide what to do with her own body and still be left-wing. To be a leftie you need to truly understand, right down at the base of your tail, that there’s no way of dividing the world into “them” and “us” – there’s always just “us”. Everyone you meet still exists when you’re not there and, behind their eyes, they have their own thoughts and aspirations, just like you. This happens like, literally, ALL THE TIME. It’s mad. Srsly.

pps. To Internet Warriors who have missed my point and want to show me articles called “Clever Reasons Why It’s Ok To Dismiss Any Risk To Assange And Insist That Even Though There’s Definitely No Risk Whatsoever That He Could Be Extradited, It’s Still Impossible For Sweden To Publicly Confirm That There’s No Risk Whatsoever That He’ll Be Extradited – by David Allen Green”, I’ve read them. All of them. And loads of other stuff about it that you haven’t read. We will still disagree. But thanks. Tell you what, have a link to a proposed solution by those radical extremists at Amnesty, instead:http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/sweden-should-issue-assurance-it-won-t-extradite-assange-usa-2012-09-27

]]>By: Ben Panterhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1448
Sat, 24 Nov 2012 23:19:14 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1448Not getting involved with the debate but there is a small flaw in your research. Ireland is statistically the safest place in Europe to give birth and they have extremely confused abortion laws. Google is a great research tool.
]]>By: I’ve got your missing links right here (20 October 2012) » Gocnhin Archivehttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1413
Mon, 22 Oct 2012 11:25:39 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1413[…] point-by-point dissection of an op/ed about “pro-life lefties”, and another good comment piece on the topic by Naomi […]
]]>By: E. Manhattanhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1410
Sun, 21 Oct 2012 03:26:45 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1410Of course men would have a different take on abortion if they were at risk for getting pregnant. I’m a man, I’ve never had to worry about that. I’
]]>By: Pavlov's Cathttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1408
Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:00:54 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1408Since somebody chose to throw in a point about infertile women, I thought it might be useful to contribute a point of view from one. I do not feel the slightest bit insulted if someone tells me that, given that I’ll never face the choice to have or not have an abortion, I may have less understanding of what a woman in that position might be going through. And just for the record, I’m pro-choice.
]]>By: Servaashttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1404
Fri, 19 Oct 2012 17:53:04 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1404Use the ‘Left’s’ world view and derive the concept of ‘human rights’ logically from that and I may consider what you’re saying.
]]>By: Melvinhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1400
Wed, 17 Oct 2012 19:50:02 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1400Brilliant piece Naomi. When Will says ” It’s far more of a human rights issue than a women’s rights issue” it sums it all up.
If someone can’t see that women’s rights are human rights, inseparable and indivisible, then they don’t inhabit the same Left space that I do.
]]>By: Naomi Mchttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1398
Wed, 17 Oct 2012 09:47:24 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1398It’s not *my* left-wing club, this is about moral consistency. If you care about human rights and equality then that means for women too (shock! horror!). If you think that you can and should control a woman’s body, then I question your commitment to equality.
]]>By: Sarahhttp://www.vaginadentatablog.net/archives/375/comment-page-1#comment-1397
Wed, 17 Oct 2012 08:30:43 +0000http://www.vaginadentatablog.net/?p=375#comment-1397Yeah. Of course you can. What a ridiculous question.

Of course you can’t be *your* type of left wing, and pro-life. Of course you would judge them as being ‘wrong’ for disagreeing with you. But you are not the arbiter of left-wingness, and being excluded from *your* club of left-wingers doesn’t exclude people from the entire left wing because you are not the entire left wing, you’re some people.