Hey Chockstone crew,
I'm a bit perplexed by something that's being taught in a number of Melbourne gyms. They are quite adamant that when a lead belayer takes in slack, they should always reach under the lead rope with their off hand, to avoid their arm coming between the lead rope and their body.

The rationale given is that the arm can be injured if the leader falls when the arm is between the rope and the body. Now this scenario seems a bit far fetched to me. When you catch a big fall, the first thing that happens is that your hips get pulled forward and up by the harness, while inertia holds your shoulders and torso back.

It actually seems a bit counter intuitive, as when the leader drops an armload of slack you've either got to blindly fumble your way under it with your hand, or take your eyes of the struggling leader.

I'm pretty sure it's not something that was ever covered on the guide courses I've done. Is this legitimately a way climbers have been injured, or just a random rule the gyms have created?

On 16-Oct-2018 Hermes wrote:>ajfclark, yes when I say through I mean between the rope and the body, thumb down. Or at least thumb pointing towards the body instead of away.

It's much harder to lock off one handed when reaching through with your thumb pointing towards the floor than if you move the top hand directly down to the rope without twisting. Reaching through also tends to end up with the little finger very close to the device or with the hand on the top of the device, both of which would be suboptimal if a fall happened then. The size of the gap you're reaching through also changes size depending on where you stand.

When I'm guiding top rope groups, I'm very particular about how they do this. I think I need to see a picture of what you're doing though. Usually I see the motion I'm thinking of when the belay device is sitting horizontally (e.g. on a hire harness) rather than vertically like it should be.

On 16-Oct-2018 Hermes wrote:>Hey Chockstone crew,>I'm a bit perplexed by something that's being taught in a number of Melbourne>gyms. They are quite adamant that when a lead belayer takes in slack, they>should always reach under the lead rope with their off hand, to avoid their>arm coming between the lead rope and their body.>>The rationale given is that the arm can be injured if the leader falls>when the arm is between the rope and the body. Now this scenario seems>a bit far fetched to me. When you catch a big fall, the first thing that>happens is that your hips get pulled forward and up by the harness, while>inertia holds your shoulders and torso back. >>It actually seems a bit counter intuitive, as when the leader drops an>armload of slack you've either got to blindly fumble your way under it>with your hand, or take your eyes of the struggling leader. >>I'm pretty sure it's not something that was ever covered on the guide>courses I've done. Is this legitimately a way climbers have been injured,>or just a random rule the gyms have created?>>Cheers, >Andy

I think the technique you describe is good practice though not for the reason given. Holding a rope in your hand with little finger towards direction of pull is way more effective/secure than thumb towards direction of pull.
Imagine doing tug of war holding the rope with thumbs closer to your body or climb hand over hand up a rope with thumbs towards the ground, you would have no chance.
If you reach over the rope with your off hand you'll likely grasp the rope with thumb toward direction of pull, if you reach under it will be little finger in direction of pull which is more effective.

Toprope belay right handed...
Left hand pulls rope down with thumb down and palm away from climber, hand between climber and rope. Right hand simultaneously pulls slack through easily.
Left hand then jumps over belay device and grabs brake side of rope with hand in same orientation, thumb down, whilst right hand slides up rope, not fully letting go.
Right hand locks rope at proper position and left hand jumps back over belay device and slides up rope , hand is in same position ..
This way both hand stay in the same orientation the whole time and the brake hand never actually leaves the rope ...