bedub1 wrote:This isn't about me. It's about a single symbol, from a single religion, that is not offensive, that causes no harm. It is about CC's intolerance to a religions holy symbol.

To put this in context, it is specifically a debate about a specific symbol whose use, "along with the religious and cultural meanings attached to it, was subverted in the early 20th century after it was adopted as the emblem of the Nazi Party" (source)

PB: 2661 | He's blue...If he were green he would die | No mod would be stupid enough to do that

bedub1 wrote:This isn't about me. It's about a single symbol, from a single religion, that is not offensive, that causes no harm. It is about CC's intolerance to a religions holy symbol.

To put this in context, it is specifically a debate about a specific symbol whose use, "along with the religious and cultural meanings attached to it, was subverted in the early 20th century after it was adopted as the emblem of the Nazi Party" (source)

Correct. The actions of prohibiting the display of the religious Hindu swastika strengthens and empowers the racists Nazi swastika. They aren't the same image, and it is a shame that you guys can't tell the difference between racism and religion.

What next, when some other racists organization subverts another holy symbol? Shall we ban the holy symbol simply because some racists organization subverted the symbol? If we bow down to the ignorance of some now, we shall have to bow down to the ignorance of others in the future. I defend this symbol, so that we can defend other symbols in the future. Every one of those symbols in my first page can be subverted by a racist organization. Shall we ban them all?

First they came for the Hindu Swastikaand I did not speak outbecause I was not a Hindu.Then they came for the Christian Crossand I did not speak outbecause I was not a Christian.Then they came for the Islam Star and Crescent and I did not speak outbecause I was not a Muslim.Then they came for meand there was no one leftto speak out for me

Yes, ban them all if enough people complain about them being offensive, who cares? Is this site such a part of someone's identity that having to change their avatar for any reason should be so crushing? It's not like the feds are coming into your apartment and ripping the posters off your walls. I, like most other players, come here to play risk and have fun. If the site decided to drop avatars completely I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. You are really laying it on thick with that borrowed poem or saying or whatever it is btw.

My quick thoughts:CC has a very diverse group of people running things. The mods range from many backgrounds, religions, and non-religions. Every mod is chosen because they are seen to be tolerant of individual beliefs and able to make unbiased decisions. Whenever a decision is made against someone they feel discriminated against and claim bias or intolerance. This is not the case here.

As far as the symbol is concerned, I can tell the difference. Maybe you could ask if there is a way that your symbol can be used with the word Hindu in the image. The reason I suggest this, and that doesn't mean it will be allowed, is because maybe you are newly into this religion and for some reason this specific symbol relates to you. I don't know your situation, but if you feel that strongly about it, then you should maybe try to work with the mods on clarifying your stance rather than automatically claiming religious discrimination.

I think you will find your responses welcomed in those circumstances but they still may not agree with you.

kentington wrote:As far as the symbol is concerned, I can tell the difference. Maybe you could ask if there is a way that your symbol can be used with the word Hindu in the image. The reason I suggest this, and that doesn't mean it will be allowed, is because maybe you are newly into this religion and for some reason this specific symbol relates to you. I don't know your situation, but if you feel that strongly about it, then you should maybe try to work with the mods on clarifying your stance rather than automatically claiming religious discrimination.

I think you will find your responses welcomed in those circumstances but they still may not agree with you.

I think this is a great idea and a good solution to a problem of differences. If someone Initially has a negative response to the image they will read the text and think: Hmm, maybe I should look into this before I complain.". That is, as long as the text is noticeable without a magnifying glass. It seems that no one who was actually using that avatar for innocent reasons would have a problem with this modification.

Funkyterrance wrote: That is, as long as the text is noticeable without a magnifying glass. It seems that no one who was actually using that avatar for innocent reasons would have a problem with this modification.

Agreed. In actuality, someone using the avatar for innocent reasons should welcome the clarification. My uncle's name happens to be Jim Jones. Talk about discrimination, he always has to say "not that Jim Jones."

If you don't know what I am talking about, then look up "kool-aid" and cults.

I would suggest that you send a pm to the original person who dealt with the issue and cc rdsrds2120, even me if you want. Petition your request to have this symbol with the wording clearly represented and see where it goes from there.

rdsrds2120, he is a great guy and no one here can nay say that. If he finds that it falls within the sites rules to allow it then great. If he doesn't, then it has nothing to do with religion. He is one of the least prejudiced persons I know.

I dont know, but when I see a guy with a hindu image that closely resembles a swastika, and then read something like that, I kind of think the guy should take down the avatar...

The Hindu image doesn't closely resemble a swastika, it IS a swastika.I posted that on September 18th. I changed my avatar on October 23rd. The two aren't related.

Did you read the rest of the post? Do you understand why I said what I said? Do you realize that Israel is trying to goad the US into a war with Iran, that could potentially turn nuclear, decimating the planet? I didn't say "f*ck them" because of their race, I said it because of their actions. I'll continue to use harsh language like that against people that are trying to start wars.

You really should quote the entire statement too so you have some context:

bedub1 wrote:I'm starting to get tired of Israel. I think they need to learn to defend themselves. I think they need to become self-sufficient. I think the US needs to stop paying their way. No more bailing them out. There isn't anything special about them, besides their massive superiority complex.

I just read an article about how the US taxpayers have contributed more to the Israeli defense budget than Israeli taxpayers over the past 3 years.

American taxpayers give Israel over $3 billion per year (over $8 million per day), more than to any other nation, despite the fact that Israel is smaller than New Jersey and is in the top 30 richest countries in the world.

Now they want us to attack Iran. They want us to fight their battles for them. I'm seriously tired of them. f*ck the Jews.

In hindsight I probably shouldn't have used the word "Jews". I probably should have used "Israel", as it's more specific to the nation and it's citizens, as opposed to Jews that live in the US/other countries and don't support the actions of the nation of Israel. It's hard to figure out which word to use when they are a Nation, a Race, and a Religion. Regardless they are not above criticism for their actions. Just yesterday they assassinated a head of state. Again, f*ck them. It's time to end this 4000 year old war, time to them to learn to live in peace and harmony with their neighbors.

Why are you digging through my past posts? Why are you making shit up, flaming me, and baiting other users in this thread? It seems like you are actively going out of your way, TRYING to find some reason to be offended.

Maybe, but to me it seems like hes calling you out on exactly what you were doing.

bedub1 wrote:We could digress into a long conversation about me, my ideas, my thoughts, my motivations, my desires, my beliefs, but I don't think it would be beneficial and productive, or even relevant. I'm also not sure if I care to share with the community at large these things.

Just out of curiosity. You mentioned earlier that your belief was personal and added with this comment:Why would you not want to share your religion with the community and yet have the symbol of your religion as your avatar?

bedub1 wrote:We could digress into a long conversation about me, my ideas, my thoughts, my motivations, my desires, my beliefs, but I don't think it would be beneficial and productive, or even relevant. I'm also not sure if I care to share with the community at large these things.

Just out of curiosity. You mentioned earlier that your belief was personal and added with this comment:Why would you not want to share your religion with the community and yet have the symbol of your religion as your avatar?

For me personally, I find it's one thing to wear a badge or patch or tshirt or hat or something....it's another thing to delve into my life story.

Ok, but lets say you live in a neighborhood where people are more or less ignorant to the difference between your swastika patch and the nazi one. Would you not feel compelled to let people know what the difference was if you passed them in the hall and they skirted away from you?

bedub, I agree that the Hindu swastika should be allowed and voted accordingly. I also agree that America should re-examine its seemingly blind support of Israel. But perhaps it's not a good idea to misappropriate another culture's religious symbol to make your political point.

one of few reasons why i move out of map foundry its not allowed to use historical symbols on mine maps .Everybody here know that i create WWII maps,and any symbols on maps are in historical context, and not glorifying Nazi Germany.Unfortunately some mods and Lack find that that any maps with WWII Theme who have Nazi Germany Flag could be insulting for some people,even when i don't get any complain.Mine country suffer hard in WWII, and still i can very easy use Nazi Flag in mine WWII maps, because i have open mind,and i know that mine maps only historically represent some battles from WWII, and i don't advertize or glorify Nazi .Even today you have many WWII Movies who use Nazi Flag with Swastika, because history are history, and in this context i think that its ok to use This symbol.

qwert wrote:one of few reasons why i move out of map foundry its not allowed to use historical symbols on mine maps .Everybody here know that i create WWII maps,and any symbols on maps are in historical context, and not glorifying Nazi Germany.Unfortunately some mods and Lack find that that any maps with WWII Theme who have Nazi Germany Flag could be insulting for some people,even when i don't get any complain.Mine country suffer hard in WWII, and still i can very easy use Nazi Flag in mine WWII maps, because i have open mind,and i know that mine maps only historically represent some battles from WWII, and i don't advertize or glorify Nazi .Even today you have many WWII Movies who use Nazi Flag with Swastika, because history are history, and in this context i think that its ok to use This symbol.

The only downside to using controversial symbols in your maps is that some people would be really uncomfortable playing them. You may say: "Well, don't play those maps then." but what if you enter into a tournament and you get randomly put on a map where the images are offensive? Worse yet, what if you are forced to be on the side that makes you personally uncomfortable?

qwert wrote:one of few reasons why i move out of map foundry its not allowed to use historical symbols on mine maps .Everybody here know that i create WWII maps,and any symbols on maps are in historical context, and not glorifying Nazi Germany.Unfortunately some mods and Lack find that that any maps with WWII Theme who have Nazi Germany Flag could be insulting for some people,even when i don't get any complain.Mine country suffer hard in WWII, and still i can very easy use Nazi Flag in mine WWII maps, because i have open mind,and i know that mine maps only historically represent some battles from WWII, and i don't advertize or glorify Nazi .Even today you have many WWII Movies who use Nazi Flag with Swastika, because history are history, and in this context i think that its ok to use This symbol.

The only downside to using controversial symbols in your maps is that some people would be really uncomfortable playing them. You may say: "Well, don't play those maps then." but what if you enter into a tournament and you get randomly put on a map where the images are offensive? Worse yet, what if you are forced to be on the side that makes you personally uncomfortable?

While it would be nice if everyone had such an open mind as you, qwert, everyone has their own unique personality and what makes them personally uncomfortable. We're a pretty open Community, except in a few cases such as bigotry, etc, where we feel that there are more detriments than possible benefits to the Community as a whole.