Quote of the Day: “I say lynch her.”

Here’s a comment found today in the Reddit Men’s Rights subreddit, probably the most “moderate” MR forum I know of online.

From Reddit's Men's Rights subreddit

The comment is in response to the video below, which is camera-phone footage of a woman beating the shit out of a guy (who refuses, on principle, to fight back). The physical abuse starts about half way through the video, and escalates at the end. It’s frankly horrifying.

Obviously this woman should be in jail, and presumably this video would be enough to guarantee her conviction. (If the video is pulled, I have saved a copy.) That’s not the issue. The issue is someone suggesting on the MR subreddit that a woman – a black woman at that — should be quite literally lynched, and getting upvotes rather than massive downvotes for expressing this opinion.

Comments

Lol – a lot of MRAs post on here saying that the comments and articles David posts are not representative of the MRM as a whole, which is seems you are saying as well. Could you please post some links to blogs/forums/comments/etc. that you think are more representative of the movement? I know this request has been made by various commenters to a couple of the MRAs who frequently post here, but I’ve never seen a response, and I am really curious.

LOL – a shift in culture? You mean in a shift in that you finally started paying attention to what feminist have actually been saying FOR YEARS? ‘Cause this thing where all domestic violence is considered wrong IS NOT NEW.

Just go to mens rights reddit and follow it for a week or so. David is there every day, and he can only find the odd comment, every-so often that could for all we know be one that he made himself, and I don’t believe that you are genuinely curious.

The official feminist line on domestic violence has been an abuse culture, where the victims and abusers are divided along the lines gender.

It say that feminism has always stated what we now know to be the truth about DV is a grossly inaccurate, this blog own himself went to great lengths to try to maintain the feminism abuse culture in a debate not so long ago.

You can read about how feminism has been covering up the truth about domestic violence for 30 years here..

There has been a battle over wiki domestic violence between feminists and those telling the truth.

Who were the feminists and those telling the truth arguing with? MRA’s?

But I see some changes recently, there has been a shift from guarding the feminist abuse culture in which female abusers are protected and male victims are denied existence to acknowledging the truth, that abuse isn’t gendered.

You have any evidence for your assertion in bold or do you just surf http://www.statsoutofmyass.com? Your supposed point was already debunked. I see your gaping memory hole again, you may want to cover that up.

And as I said before this particular post is way off, because leftist and progressive feminists are the ones that are still running rape fear mongering and siring up the lynch mob mentality for political gain, just most of the plebs and followers aren’t aware that that’s what it is.

@Seraph I understand your point and agree. But this video is about a man who lied about having sex with a woman, pissed her off, and she beats him up in his own house. I don’t think they were partners.

Don’t get the wrong impression here. I am adamantly against DV, physical violence, emotional abuse, and have been exposed to the results of very real violence numerous times. And this B*tch is crazy. The man was ganged up on too, while everyone watched and filmed. Disgusting. She should go to jail. But it’s not a fight between partners. That’s where my remark came from.

Lol – I guess I will attempt to follow the mens rights reddit, although after a quick glance, it looks like a place where anyone can post about anything mens rights related, as it should be, but what I really want is something that I could read that was really explain the goals, grievances, etc. of the MRM. Obvioulsy, individual goals/grievances/successes (I just read on the mens rights reddit about a man who successfully gained full custody of his children after a 6 months court battle with his ex wife) are addressed on the reddit, but I would really like to read something about the movement as a whole.

Also, whether or not you believe in my genuine interest is somewhat irrelevant, but I would like to point out that at no point in my posting on this blog, to you or to anyone else, have a insulted or belittled any MRA poster. Usually my posts are questions for clarification on the MRM or an individual poster’s beliefs. Therefore, I find it really hard to imagine how you could form a belief about whether my intentions are genuine or not based on my participation in this blog. The assumption that someone is asking you a question in bad faith really thwarts the ability to carry on a logical conversation about a point of contention. If you truly want people to listen and pay attention to the grievances of the MRM, wouldn’t it better suit you to have an open and honest dialog with those people you think should hear what you have to say and take it seriously?

TO say that feminism has always stated what we now know to be the truth about DV is grossly inaccurate, this blog owner himself went to great lengths to try to maintain the feminist abuse culture in a debate not so long ago.

I can say, having worked in a court now for a while, the response of “my friend said/says” for why someone thought they could break the law is very common. That includes when someone is charged with assault
Female Defendant: “Well my friend said that women are never arrested when they hit their boyfriends/lovers/husbands.”
Female Judge: “No, you are not allowed to hit anyone ever. Does not matter if you are a woman or a man. No hitting ever.”

So lets see. All men have to be given the benefit of a lot of doubt in accusations of rape. But women who are accused of DV sould be lynched.

Right.

She should be arrested. A trial should be conducted. If guilty I hope she’s convincted.

Comrade Svilova: NWOslave will never accept that we aren’t being “clever”. Our purpose in saying we think this is wrong is to keep the people who have not yet accepted “the feminist dogma” that only men can commit domestic violence, etc. So of course we say things which look reasonable, but we don’t mean it. It’s part of a disinformation campaign. (and I see that someone has already made that explicit claim)

titfortat: yes, we might want to take note of how the idea of people like NWOslave have so pervaded the culture that someone can beat on someone else and think the law/public opinion will support them.

lol: Care to point out the cases where this blog (and/or its commentariat) were going, “to great lengths to try to maintain the feminist abuse culture,”?

lol, David did tell the truth about DV in the debate. Paul Elam did not. Elam tried to push the discredited idea of gender symmetry based on flawed studies using the conflict tactics scale. Basically, he argued that women are beating men up just as much as men beat women up. In those studies Elam relied on, a woman slapping a man is equal to a man pushing a woman down the stairs and causing her to suffer a concussion. Those studies also do not show how men are likely to be repeat batterers, using physical abuse repeatedly to maintain power over their victims.

David proved that females victims suffer worse injuries, get hospitalized more for their injuries, and even die more at the hands of their partners. He also showed that while there are some female batterers, there are many more male batterers. If you call the truth a feminist abuse culture, then I am part of the culture, too. I choose the truth over the spin offered by Paul Elam and the rest of the MRM.

So far, all of the feminists here have already agreed that it is wrong for women to hit men. I also agree that nobody should hit other people or even animals, regardless of the gender of the perpetrator. The woman in the video was clearly in the wrong. You keep telling us that feminists support such violence even when we tell you that we don’t.

Attacking the domestic violence shelters and advocates that assist female victims does nothing to help male victims. It also does not help male victims to minimize or deny the abuse suffered by female victims. Now the ball is in the court of the MRM. What do you plan to do to actually help male victims?

I don’t have a problem with that statement at all. That woman is a criminal and should be persecuted. I think it’s fairly likely she will indeed get a reduced sentence, if convicted at all, because of her gender. I don’t condone ACTUAL vigilantism, but this video should make you angry (it doesn’t for a lot of hypocrite femiassholes , but it should). Are you telling me that no moderate feminist has ever made a hyperbolic statement in anger? It’s an empty threat on the internet, and given the general moderate (almost too moderate) state of the MRA reddit I think we can write it off as hyperbole.

Adding to what Kendra said about the statistics Elam used to attempt to “prove” his point, he used a listing of a couple of hundred CTS studies out of well over 70,000 such studies. They have compiled a tiny listing of those CTS studies, mostly studies that used really tiny groups of subjects. They found a few that match their agenda. This isn’t proof that his claims are truth.

MRAL: You don’t have a problem with the statement that someone who has been accused ought to be lynched?

Do you know what lynching is? You do realise it’s the killing of someone a mob thinks to be guilty of an offense against public order, not the reasoned result of judicial process?

Because, if you mean that; you’d sure as hell better be willing to say that guys who are accused of rape must be guilty, and be ready to string them up in the public square as an example to everyone else.

Oh… wait, you don’t. You think this this is just some random guy, overreacting a little to the provocations he’s endured at the hands of feminists trying to keep him down, and deny him sex.

That lynching is a fairly specific problem (and while not limited to offenses against blacks, non-black lynching was very different), and has been used to “keep blacks in their place.”

I am not prone to telling people what they, “need” to do, but you do need to get a better handle on the problems your justifying the use of the word lynching in this sort of case.

The Without Sanctuary project has a really good overview of just what “lynching” means.

MRAL: Now to the substance of your argument (equivalence of this rhetorical excess, and feminist rhetorical excess): Are you seriously arguing that this comment is, in relative terms, an outlier?

That such comments are not the norm on MRA cites? That the attitude conveyed in it is 1: atypical of the average MRA, and 2: No worse in type, and quantity, than that of feminist comments?

I’ll grant that there are feminists who say outrageous things. I’ll grant that it isn’t even all that rare. I won’t grant that, as a percentage of feminist comment, it’s as common as it is on MRA/PUA cites, and I don’t agree that the top-posters in feminist blogs are as anti-male as the top posters in MRA/PUA sites are anti-female.

Don’t care worth a shit about the race angle. Her actions have nothing to do with her race, this is a woman who has committed a crime based on this video. As said lynching is unacceptable, but anger at this criminal is entirely justified, and I’m not going to condemn someone for making statements in anger.

@ MRAL: So a woman who has just been raped is totally justified in saying that all sex offenders should be castrated? Keep in mind, the woman in question has been *directly* victimized, whereas this commenter is just an observer.

@t4t “but I guess even a blind.pig finds an acorn every now and then.” I always hated this saying. Hogs (I am more familiar with the term hog being used in this idiom) mostly forage using scent, so a blind hog could be expected to compete fairly well in terms of foraging.

On another trivia note: wtf NWO? The AA is Marxist? How exactly? If anything, one would think that its explicit religious nature would result in a lower than average proportion of Marxists, given that Marxists tend to have a high proportion of atheists. You know that Marxism is an actual political theory (and it is not the same thing as authoritarianism, either), right? And not a word rougly comparable to calling your opponent poo-poo head?

Moving on to on topic issues:

@Laughing gull, I think you are right and this is not a an attack between partners, especially considering the fact that the attacker’s motive appears to be that she believes the victim told people they slept together, making it an unlikely motive for a romantic partner.

I also wonder at what was edited out of the video, because it does seem as if the woman in pink was making some effort to stop the attacker at a certain point (she tries to place herself in between the two before one of the cuts and when the attacker picks up the lamp she says “no, oh my god”).

MRAL: That’s like saying, “This guy should have his nuts smashed in a vise before his castration.”

It’s not about the gender, it’s just that the person responding has a visceral response to that sort of abuse.

In other words, nonsense. This is a case where your lack of age/experience directly relates to the folly of your argument.

This guy could have said, “The damn bitch ought to be dropped in a hole and left to starve to death.” He could have said what she did was grounds for stoning (because she beat on a man, so she should be beaten to death).

He didn’t. He said lynch. Look at the numbers in that chart 72 percent of those lynchings are of blacks. Blacks have never been that large a part of the population. Roughly 12 percent.

That’s a huge dichotomy. So when someone says, “they ought to be lynched” and it’s aimed at a black… it means more than just, “I think that person did a bad thing.”

No. It means “That uppity nigger needs to be taught a lesson so none of the rest of them think they can get away with it.”

It’s also why groups like MRAs call criticism of men, “lynchings”. They are trying to make an equivalence between the unjustifiable attempts to violently oppress an entire people, and the observations of the harms their actions cause to others.

It’s a form of “appropriation”, combined with the shaming tactics they say are unfair, when used against them.

Dave: I’m pretty sure I know what put my post in moderation. I’m sorry. I should have thought that the word might be problematic here. If you think the way I used it wasn’t acceptable, you can edit it to make it work (dingbats, or rot-13, or whatever suits you), or let me know and I’ll rewrite it in some way which avoids that construction.

It’s a tricky line to walk, and I don’t know what your policies are. I hope I didn’t violate them. If I did, I’m sorry, and I will do my best to not do it again.

Mrow! It’s weird how much this seems to be theoretical to some ppl… let’s talk about what COULD happen, what MIGHT happen, what they guess will happen in the courts… how they think feminism or men’s or women’s shelters operate..

These things actually exist, and there are actual real DV/DA/rape/SA survivors out there (incl myself) -_-;; And actual shelters and programs that serve and help them.

I work with these shelters and other social services and the difference between theory and reality is like that Yogi Berra quote: “In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.” -_-;; There are many supports for male abuse victims in the city where I work, but not enough. There also isn’t enough for female abuse victims either. 🙁 It’s not a COMPETITION. And the various networks of shelters aren’t hostile to each other (there are exceptions, there are places like in Vancouver, the infamous VRR, that are hostile to trans woman, and interestingly, some places are okay w/ cis ppl of the opposite gender vs trans ppl of the same gender… ) and there is a lot of working together.

But it’s what I mean by “in practice”. There isn’t this huge anti-male thing, there isn’t this big “OMG WOMEN CAN’T BE ABUSED”. One of the huge trauma therapy recovery programs here is open to both men and women. You can assume whatever you like that you THINK feminists do, but what they ACTUALLY do, is not that, which could mean that your information about feminists is incorrect. 🙂 Or that there’s more to whatever stats ppl are arguing over than you know.

It’s like BABIP and other new baseball stats. (this is me linking my sports media side w/ my anti-oppression worker side!) They give us metrics which help us better look at ballplayers and whether or not their performance is a fluke, or can be sustained, and how “real” what happened is. HOWEVER! It is not the end all and be all, it’s just MORE information. What happened STILL HAPPENED, and what happens is still happening, and sometimes you get the over sabermetric-ky person who insists to you what happened SHOULDN’T happen or what’s going on CAN’T be happening b/c stuff like BABIP says it shouldn’t be (like being able to keep up an extraordinarily high BABIP). But that doesn’t mean this player has broken reality, it means that you DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION. 🙂 And sometimes it means actually WATCHING the games b/c while numbers and boxscores and line drive rates can quantify a lot, we can’t quantify the entire game (yet), and you realize when watching stuff WHY it happens not the way you thought in theory 🙂

In the same way, I understand how w/ the narratives we have in our society, or the stuff you see in crime shows or TV shows, or media reporting, some ppl think they “know” how society is going… how men are prolly shut out of the social services network all together, or radical feminists have taken over the shelter system, or… or how the courts let female batterers go, or etc… except that’s not how it generally is (there’s always exceptions… news articles are just another form of anecdata and remember, often things are UNUSUAL to make the news 🙂 ) That’s not to say there aren’t PROBLEMS (and we could DEFINITELY use more volunteers, which would be right up the alley of all the ppl complaining about lack of men’s support here 😀 ) but support systems for abused men absolutely do exist, and they’re not tiny little underfunded places either (well I mean compared to any other shelter; you could argue eveyrbody is underfunded… there is a lot of violence out there 🙁 )

A lot of feminism and stuff related to DV/DA/etc isn’t based on ideology as much as it’s based on reality, it comes from things actually happening rather than a construction from theory… at least the feminism I’m talking about (and that the feminist posters here are, or seem to be 🙂 ), I’ve noticed some ppl like to define feminism in their own ways here xD But the ppl I work w/ and talk to are in general ppl who believe what they believe cuz it WORKS and cuz it HELPS and we need to create safe spaces for all sorts of ppl, and anti-oppression work, anti-racism, anti-sexism, intersectionality, pro queer policies etc is IMPORTANT to that. This isn’t about some ideological war.. it’s about real ppl, and a REAL PROBLEM w/ trauma and abuse and assault and all sorts of terrible things out there 🙁

So I just wanted to let the anti-feminist types here, at least know that they should be happy to know that they’re wrong (I’D be rly happy to know that I’m wrong if I thought there was no supports 🙂 ) about how male abuse survivors are treated (no differently than female ones… I know that the MSM and TV shows like to act like male survivors are this myth, but the social services out there KNOW this is not true and doubt nobody, b/c well why should they? They’re here to HELP 🙂 ) and about the justice system, and how female abusers are STILL prosecuted and convicted, and they don’t get off just by being female 🙂

And as I said, volunteer! Donate! Or just help out in any way you can. Find out where your local men’s shelters are (for those specifically concerned about men’s issues alone) and keep the number handy in case you know any men who are being abused… as I said, while they exist, the myth is still propagated by a lot of ppl, and by narratives in our lives (media, news reporting, tv shows, even jokes among friends) that men’s shelters don’t exist, or that all shelters are for women only, or etc etc… and anything ppl can do to break the myth is useful!

Enough with the friggin’ emoticons already. If you’re going to write a treatise, then bloody well write. Don’t illustrate. I’m pretty sure I agree with most of what you wrote, but it’s hard to tell because it’s hard to read.

I think that mens rights reddit might be one of the best places, because you get fathers rights, misandry, feminism, abuse, education etc discussed, its also self policed for misogyny. A vo i ce for men has just made a page called “Facts” which is a quick reference. There is another good source is one called called “Misandry Review”, its a round up of the latest articles. You might try swedish mra Pelle Billing too..

I don’t know, maybe some of you have already visited these cites or have no desire to visit them, and so far I have done nothing more than look them up and post them here (I’m at work, but I hope to spend a little time checking them out this weekend), but we are always asking for representative blogs, cites, etc. of the MRM, and LOL says these are some good ones.

DSC: Yeah the blind pig reference was mine. I happily accept your correction re: the true nature of pigs, as you usually know what you are talking about. The pig is an animal that has largely gotten a bad rap, as they are quite intelligent animals.

I hereby apologize to all of pigdom for comparing them to NWOslave. Truly, no pig deserves that.

We Hunted the Mammoth tracks and mocks the white male rage underlying the rise of Trump and Trumpism. This blog is NOT a safe space; given the subject matter -- misogyny and hate -- there's really no way it could be.