waaaiiiit why would i be forced to fix it? i would open the dark portal just to see if my spell works, if the world goes to complete chaos because of that who cares? i just enslave kil'jaden and rule this world

rest is pretty simple:
learn about limitatios or where demons come from, for me thats more or less the same. I mean we know they are from the nether, and we know that we can only have 1 out at a time (for whatever reasons). So both questions are kinda connected

c) powaaaaaar :P and a good reason why we are weaker then mages when we were acutaly mages and got some extra demon energy

d) depends on the puzzle, sadly since the internet exists you can find your answer for every puzzle in 20sec by typing in the quest so i'd go with defeat monsters.

I like the idea about visiting another world, but how about all of them together?:P

In order to find out about the origin of your powers/ of your demons, you go to some other world with your demon where you have to enter a place with lots of mazes / puzzles and you must clear stage by stage and kill some monsters etc.

if I had to give an example, I think the earliest prince of persia games were very close to this , and it was very interesting , as well as other games similar to this like soul reaver.

A) Cause a problem, see if it's problematic enough and cause it again, somewhere else. Meanwhile, sacrifice 10 innocents to demons to increase my personal power
B) Learn how to kill more innocents in less time. Do it.
C) Ignore my limitations and sacrifice my own body in order to increase my ability to cause mayhem
D) Defeat monsters. Cut them in 1000 pieces. Solve puzzle.

No, he's trying to make a component of the game we'd enjoy, by listening to and interacting with the community who will partake in it. I for one am looking forward to all this new Warlock goodness incoming.

Also. The Warlock mentioned on board the Lion of the Waves survived right? Right?

hmm, how about a sequence combination of (for example ) 3 out of 100 different patterns, it would take too many different patterns to make a solution to all of them.
and yes some people might choose to do them themselves, this is similar to rift's puzzle idea, where you roam the world and discover unique puzzles that you have to solve, they are very similar to games we know irl, like chess etc, and if you can solve it fast enough you can get an epic or something valuable, items can only be gained once per puzzle though ( info for those who don't know ).

anyways the point is, how about creating an entirely new system, something similar to instances, but revolves around a series of puzzles that once solved unlocks the door to the next stage, so instead of fighting mobs, you would solve puzzles until you move onto the last challenge which could be a boss or a fight where you need to use different means to weaken or destroy the boss, things you have solved in the puzzles in previous stages for example.

also you could introduce different elements or even secondary resource systems such as specific buffs, or items or "status" that increases or improves or even fixes patterns in puzzles, think of star wars' hidden cubes, especially the last one at lvl 50 where you needed an entire team to shift from platforms and fire grapple ropes and use precise timing , where all of the members had to press a key at the same time to activate a generator that would open 1 door on a specific platform so that one person who is standing there can move onto the next platform and open the door to another etc, the thing is, you cannot all go to that platform since to operate it all members need to be in different areas in the room, even on different floor levels, at the same time for this to work, things like this really create interesting encounters and I'm sure if blizzard were to sit down and think of ideas to improve or create situations similar to this, the outcome would be phenomenal, it could upgrade into another form of PVE, or something entirely different from pve/ pvp.

Cause a problem. Warlocks represent chaos more than order, in my opinion, as does fel magic. This means we cause problems. Other's problems are theirs to solve, for the most part. Even in lore it seems a large reason most warlocks serve others (read: horde/alliance) would be personal gain (or survival).

Originally Posted by Xelnath

Learn about where demons come from
Learn about the limitations of demons

Learn where demons come from, it can attune us more to the source of our power. On the flip side, IMO we learn about the limitations of demons by overextending ("dafuq my imp can't interrupt?!") - in other words, B) is learned more by everyday stuff.

Originally Posted by Xelnath

Learn more about where your powers come from
Learn more about the history of warlocks

Again, learning more about the origin of fel magic/etc. attunes us more to it. History of warlocks means we learn what others have done... that's certainly not as fun as doing things yourself.

Originally Posted by Xelnath

Solve puzzles
Defeat monsters

Killing things for B). That said, I'd rather see a mixture of both... such as a Dragonwrath questline or Rogue questline where the puzzle involves defeating unconventionally difficult mobs (as in not just tank and spank/etc.)

IMO the puzzle could be solved by wowhead... but there's a big difference between knowing what to do and figuring out a means of executing it.

A) Cause a problem, see if it's problematic enough and cause it again, somewhere else. Meanwhile, sacrifice 10 innocents to demons to increase my personal power
B) Learn how to kill more innocents in less time. Do it.
C) Ignore my limitations and sacrifice my own body in order to increase my ability to cause mayhem
D) Defeat monsters. Cut them in 1000 pieces. Solve puzzle.

You can't. Just like you can't design a fight that people can't go to WoW Head and get a detailed tactical guide for. All you can do is create a challenge and let the people who enjoy challenges tackle it without peaking. The people who just want to complete it as quickly as possible will watch a Youtube walkthrough no matter what you do.

And dear gods, no math puzzles or sliding block games like this was bloody Zelda, no matter what some people here say. Any "puzzle" is still going to be heavy on the combat, because this is still Warcraft. What I was picturing was something like "use Enslave Demon on handy demonic target, use that demon's special ability to defeat a guardian uniquely weak to it, send the demon to suicide on an environmental effect, proceed forward." Or using Banish to get past an Eye of Killrog acting as a security camera. You know, clever use of class specific abilities to defeat challenges in ways that aren't simply dealing damage. I'm sure there will still be an end boss to take down, because again, Warcraft. It'd feel cheap without one.

You can't. Just like you can't design a fight that people can't go to WoW Head and get a detailed tactical guide for. All you can do is create a challenge and let the people who enjoy challenges tackle it without peaking. The people who just want to complete it as quickly as possible will watch a Youtube walkthrough no matter what you do.

And dear gods, no math puzzles or sliding block games like this bloody Zelda, no matter what some people here say. Any "puzzle" is still going to be heavy on the combat, because this is still Warcraft. What I was picturing was something like "use Enslave Demon on handy demonic target, use that demon's special ability to defeat a guardian uniquely weak to it, send the demon to suicide on an environmental effect, proceed forward." Or using Banish to get past an Eye of Killrog acting as a security camera. You know, clever use of class specific abilities to defeat challenges in ways that aren't simply dealing damage. I'm sure there will still be an end boss to take down, because again, Warcraft. It'd feel cheap without one.

but that's just no different from what pve currently is ( more precisely, what it was in older expansions , at least in some fights I can remember ) :/
I was hoping the entire point of having puzzles was so that people would have something besides normal pve where you kill mobs and bosses etc.

but that's just no different from what pve currently is ( more precisely, what it was in older expansions , at least in some fights I can remember ) :/
I was hoping the entire point of having puzzles was so that people would have something besides normal pve where you kill mobs and bosses etc.

Look, WoW is WoW. You can only stretch the gameplay so far before 1) you're asking people to switch to a skill set too far outside their expectations, 2) the game engine fails support the mechanics asked of it, or 3) all of the above. The difference to shoot for is that they're fights you can't win by sending in the Voidlord and using your usual DPS rotation with the occasional Health Funnel, but instead require clever use of the full spectrum of Warlock class abilities.

Normal PvE content can't be built around the expectation of having Enslave Demon or Demonic Circle. A class specific questline can, and should. There's all sorts of things you can build in that aren't straight DPS checks when you're only building for one class. Give a mini-boss a mechanic that requires a specific pet ability to counter it, and as long as you give the player a couple hints about it before the fight they'll feel clever for figuring out to swap for a Succubus' knockback or an Imp's cleanse. Or have a quest event where the correct action is to Soulstone yourself, die, and res in place. That's the sort of puzzle you can solve without turning WoW into a different game.

No, he's trying to make a component of the game we'd enjoy, by listening to and interacting with the community who will partake in it. I for one am looking forward to all this new Warlock goodness incoming.

Also. The Warlock mentioned on board the Lion of the Waves survived right? Right?

Think he's just some nameless Warlock. Most of the people in the books always remain nameless unless there is a distinct story reason for them to have a name. (and then they always either get to be the hero, the hero's chick (or dude) or, most likely, get killed. )

How about: Banish the Eye of Kil'rog that i sensitive to Fel Magic (your Demonic Circle), in order to place your tp, then jump on the next horizontally moving platform by using Burning Rush for a farther jump in order to activate a switch that causes the platform on which you had put your circle to move upwards. Then proceed to teleport yourself and go to the upper level, in which you'll have to Soul Stone yourself due to an angry Infernal that starts incinerating you at sight. After rezzing enslave the Infernal and continue the rest of the event.

The possibilities are endless, you can combine everything and use multiple factors (reaction, cleverness, speed, movement, etc...) in my opinion.

I would, however, like to speak against puzzle challenges of the old Sierra model. Encounter challenge, die horribly, res, try a solution, die, res, find the correct solution, get to the next stage of the puzzle, die horribly, repeat. Please, no. It'd be like progression raiding from scratch, only without friends along to make it tolerable.

Anything that requires preparation before hand, like a specific pet or talent, needs to be telegraphed ahead of time. And I hesitate to endorse requiring a specific talent or glyph. Even with the lowered bar for alternations it's too close to requiring a specific spec to progress. Use of baseline abilities doesn't always have to be telegraphed ahead of time, but if not you have to give the player breathing room during the fight to go hunting in their spellbook because they don't have Twilight Ward or Curse of Enfeeblement on their action bars.