tlongpine wrote:I've been watching the Dog Debate and thinking it's unnecessarily acrimonious and judgmental, but this weekend I witnessed a pretty appalling dog situation on Holy Cross that changed my thinking.

I passed two dogs (a golden retriever and a yellow lab) 100 feet below the summit. I went over to say hello and noticed that one of the dogs paws was bleeding. Upon closer inspection I learned all four paws were shredded and two were bleeding.

Upon reaching the summit - at 3:30pm - we met the owners. Two young women taking their time on the summit as they toiled over the appropriate frequency of Molly ingestion.

It was a wonderfully clear day so we hung out on the summit for about 30 minutes and the girls preceded our party on the descent.

We passed them at the point the dogs were left, as they struggled to get the golden to walk. It refused to go anywhere, and was almost as big as she was. They would've been stuck if it weren't for the fact that one of the day's last descenders had a 65 liter pack that wasn't filled with much. He stuffed his gear into their daypacks and carried the dog out on his back.

Thank goodness that guy was in the right place at the right time with the right gear, and was gracious enough to help. Kudus to you, helpful mountain stranger! Shame on you, reckless dog owners.

With the dog crisis averted we couldn't help overhear as their conversation turned back to important topics during the descent:"I can't believe it's getting dark. We started early at 10." "I pretty much smoke weed everyday, but try to keep Molly to a weekend thing.""I don't know what we would've done if you we're there? Hahaha. We could've died."

Me? I'm joining the emotional and judgmental chorus of people who would never put my dog in a situation I can't get him out of myself.

My friend and I were camping out and taking some pics of the mountain by the campsite. The girls, the 2 bloody dogs, and the guy didn't come past the camp sites until after 6, and they still had to hike out of the valley several miles to get back to the cars. It was most certainly pitch black out by the time they got back. Extremely dangerous and stupid. I just don't get some people sometimes.

The golden had socks on her feet that the stranger donated, but she was still having a real tough time moving when they went past us.

"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you...while cares will drop off like autumn leaves." John Muir

I am not back to argue the "unpaid professional" term, because we use it a lot. Just look at the results for Googling "mountain rescue unpaid professional". You can see its more common of a term than you might think.

As kimism said, we may not be paid, but we function at the same level of standards as any other paid organization would.

I think Kimism outlined a rescue fairly well. Until you've been a part of one it's hard to understand the personnel required. 17 does sound like an awful lot, but it isn't just a matter of walking up to someone and walking them out. A rescue is far more than just a hike.

Also as Kimism pointed out we are volunteer so it's not like someone decides hey let's get 17 people out for this mission. A page goes out to the whole team and hopefully enough people show up. It is extremely rare that too many people show up as there is always more that can be done.

Don't feel bad for making the comment either, most people are very surprised at the amount of resources needed to carry out such operations. This sounds like a pretty straight forward rescue too, it's when SAR has to search to find the person first that really takes a lot of resources.

As far as being a professional, sure we aren't paid money. Is money the only form of reward for a job well done? You're probably right though, there is something much different about a group of people willing to invest so much of their own time and money to do SAR and not get paid. You see it when a group such as the 17 mentioned above get home from their busy weekend and respond to a call to spend the whole night helping someone get home safely, and then they themselves get home just in time for the monday morning alarm clock to go off.

pucker_factor wrote:..why does it take 17 rescuers to find one dog and one idiot?

Have you ever been involved in a rescue or first responder situation? Some people wonder why it is necessary that when 911 is called for several responders to come running. I can tell you its a lot more effecient and helpful when you have 10 - 20 hands on scene versus 4 - 6. Rescues and Patient care is NEVER as straight forward as you would think. Something as simple as CPR can run a lot more smoothly and efficiently with 4 - 5 people there versus just 1.

There should really be some sort of fine for taking dogs up mountains that should not be there. i.e.with selfish owners.I am sure there are plenty of citizens that would enforce it.This is disgusting that people are so selfish as to take their dogs up fourteeners I don't care how technical or untechnical they are!I have carried dogs off mtns with SAR and I do have a judgemental opinion about it that I am not ashamed to voice.This is not a mistake some people make, it is inconsiderate.

people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but they will never forget how you made them feel...

kimism72 wrote:This what books and Internet is for, to raise awareness and educate.

I can think of far better things the internet is for...

In all seriousness, I really appreciate what the dedicated individuals of the SAR teams do.

Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.-Helen Keller