Raymond has speed to burn and is decent defensively and can kill penalties. As frequently pointed out his biggest problem seems to be finding a direct path to the net while staying on his feet, and unfortunately his all to infrequent successful offensive forays generally fade from memory with his next ineffectual swoop around the net.

However, taking in to consideration the after effects of a significant injury, Raymond's contract seems reasonable and offers him a chance to prove himself after a healthy off season of training rather than rehab. Hopefully he doesn't disappoint. In the worst case scenario he now has a very marketable contract, and personally I would rather have him at $2.275 mil rather than another Canuck forward at twice the price whose most threatening moments seem to be towards Canada's bear population.

Even before this tragic back injury that seems to get him an awful lot of sympathy he came back to earth... the yr he scored 25 he had alot of pp time 8 power play goals of his 25 scored were on the pp... I guarantee you he never scores 8 again on the pp here... The following season he scored 15 and 2 came on the pp... In 55 games last year 1 pp goal of the 10 he scored... The other factor IMO why this player is VASTLY overrated is the roster... His 25 goal campaign2 players sorta had season that could be described as mirages... Sameulsson had a 30 g yr don't get me wrong nice player but he wasn't a guy you pencil in for 25-30 for the life of the contract... You new what Burrows,Kesler were same with the Twins Hank exploded but you sorta new what they were... Samuelsson and Raymond sorta came back down to earth the following season and last season when you had Booth get 16 in almost the same games played you had Higgins get 18 you had Cody get 16 you had Hansen get 16 Raymonds ice time and quality ice time i.e pp i.e top 6 minutes could get eaten into the minutes Raymond got in his 25 goal season, guess what may be tonight Cody gets a look two nights later maybe its Higgins some nights it could be Hansen or Booth but the point is OPTIONS were available...

I'm not a big Raymond fan I think he is a 15 g guy who had a big year and hit 25 I hate the fact that the club and his supporters point to the fact that the injury has hampered his progress when in fact he was what he was long before the injury... Hell in 24 playoff games that season he scored 2 goals...

To me last year was an indictment on what he was he played in every situation lines 1-4 pp etc and failed miserably in every situation... People can say he was hurt but to me he was on pace to get 15-17 goals and thats what he is the problem is he doesn't fit here... He is not a guy to play with the twins, He doesn't fit as a 2nd line guy with Kes and Booth Higgins is a better option but IMO Higgins fits best on line 3 with a Hansen Raymond doesn't do enough to fit in on that line and as far as the 4th line goes he isn't an energy guy who is physical...

whether you like it or don't like it learn to live with it because its the best thing going today...

paddy wrote:Even before this tragic back injury that seems to get him an awful lot of sympathy he came back to earth... the yr he scored 25 he had alot of pp time 8 power play goals of his 25 scored were on the pp... I guarantee you he never scores 8 again on the pp here... The following season he scored 15 and 2 came on the pp... In 55 games last year 1 pp goal of the 10 he scored... The other factor IMO why this player is VASTLY overrated is the roster... His 25 goal campaign2 players sorta had season that could be described as mirages... Sameulsson had a 30 g yr don't get me wrong nice player but he wasn't a guy you pencil in for 25-30 for the life of the contract... You new what Burrows,Kesler were same with the Twins Hank exploded but you sorta new what they were... Samuelsson and Raymond sorta came back down to earth the following season and last season when you had Booth get 16 in almost the same games played you had Higgins get 18 you had Cody get 16 you had Hansen get 16 Raymonds ice time and quality ice time i.e pp i.e top 6 minutes could get eaten into the minutes Raymond got in his 25 goal season, guess what may be tonight Cody gets a look two nights later maybe its Higgins some nights it could be Hansen or Booth but the point is OPTIONS were available...

I'm not a big Raymond fan I think he is a 15 g guy who had a big year and hit 25 I hate the fact that the club and his supporters point to the fact that the injury has hampered his progress when in fact he was what he was long before the injury... Hell in 24 playoff games that season he scored 2 goals...

To me last year was an indictment on what he was he played in every situation lines 1-4 pp etc and failed miserably in every situation... People can say he was hurt but to me he was on pace to get 15-17 goals and thats what he is the problem is he doesn't fit here... He is not a guy to play with the twins, He doesn't fit as a 2nd line guy with Kes and Booth Higgins is a better option but IMO Higgins fits best on line 3 with a Hansen Raymond doesn't do enough to fit in on that line and as far as the 4th line goes he isn't an energy guy who is physical...

While that may have been the most challenging 3 paragraphs I have ever read from a grammatical standpoint, I agree with everything.

Raymond is our new Grabner. He could probably go to an eastern team and be a 20-25 goal/40-45 point winger. He'll never do that here.

On the top line he can't play with the Sedins because he's scared to go to the front of the net and he can't stay on his feet. He would also out-skate the Sedins and be off-side or alone with the puck and nowhere to go (does the latter alot anyways).

On the second line he is useless because he's not a great passing forward, and Booth and Kesler need a guy to distribute the puck. Here again he won't go to the net enough and that line is built to crash the crease. All that works there is his speed, but his hands can't keep up.

On the third line he is great as a back-checking winger. But he lacks the intensity to bring much in the way of energy.

The fourth line? He's too small and is useless on a line where the job is to go over the boards, mix it up in the corners and wear the other team down a bit.

Ironically enough a fair number of his goals have been odd bounces where the puck glanced off him as he skated through the front of the net.

Raymond is the classic "glimmer" player. He comes out flying, all speed and dash with a bit of flash and little finish. People are excited, they think he's going to burn the opponent with his wheels. Then a couple weeks go by and everyone is disappointed, another week and people are starting to get pissed with him. This goes on for another 10 days or so and then suddenly he shows some flash and scores a nice goal. Everyone is now a bit excited again, they think, "maybe he has turned the corner", because we all saw what he can do. The next game he'll have a few good chances and get unlucky. The fans are back in his corner again and Vigneault ups his ice-time. 2 weeks later everyone is pissed with him again because he's done nothing for the last 12 days. A week later he's on the 4th line and shows another "glimmer". Repeat.

I don't expect this to change, but can't help hoping he'll turn the corner the right way. The thought of Raymond brings visions of repeating button hooks ending in crash landings. Charlie Brown on ice.

Meds wrote:...On the second line he is useless because he's not a great passing forward..

If Raymond could improve his passing & high speed turn control in the off season (like Kesler did with his shot) he could be a useful puck distributor. Lotsa work would be required - if possible at all. Charlie Brown is more likely.

the Dogsalmon wrote:wasnt this board described as a mongoloid farm...that still makes me smile and laugh...

I believe Abbotsford is the mongoloid farm.

Calpuke is (was) the mongoloid farm.

I really need to stop using that word though. Friends of ours had their first baby last year after two miscarriages and the kid has downs. Makes me appreciate the fact both of my kids are healthy as horses.

paddy wrote:I'm not a big Raymond fan I think he is a 15 g guy who had a big year and hit 25 I hate the fact that the club and his supporters point to the fact that the injury has hampered his progress when in fact he was what he was long before the injury... Hell in 24 playoff games that season he scored 2 goals...

I agree.

Even when he got the 25 goals it still felt a little suspect as it seemed he got pretty lucky a couple of nights during the first half of the year.

He's a better player then what we saw last year but I doubt we see him get 25 again.

I also think he will continue to struggle in the post season as his style is a lot more effective when the game is more wide open.

That said the best plan is to bring him back and buff up his trade value a bit.

Who knows, perhaps if he can get on pace for 15 to 20 goals we can move him at the deadline for a second round pick (smile).