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Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Perhaps aggregating player performance by some set of characteristics, be it game-relevent skill sets, personailty traits, etc., it would be easier to see statistically significant variation in "clutch" sitations. The problem of course is find the set of characterstics common to "clutch" individuals. Seeing as how these studies have been done by people smarter than me, I'm going to guess that somebody has already gone down this road...

In the Nate Silver piece I referenced earlier, he had done something like that, and concluded that there's a slight tendency for guys with good bat control and plate discipline to be more clutch than low-walk, high-K hackers. Makes a little sense, as in high-leverage situations a hitter who can control the at-bat and maybe hit a pitcher's pitch is better off than a mistake hitter who is often at the pitcher's mercy. But it's just a slight tendency, and given that we're talking a very small slice of the hitter's total picture anyway, not something a team would bank on.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

Originally Posted by M2

It's also possible that "clutch" isn't something that you can own. Bob Gibson was clutch in the 1967 World Series, or perhaps dominant is a better term. Yet Gibson got beat in Game 7 of the 1968 series.

Gibson pitched great in the 1968 Series; he won game one, striking out a record 17 hitters, he won game four, and he lost game seven, 4-1, primarily because Gold Glove centerfielder Curt Flood misplayed a flyball.
Gibson was a great regular season pitcher of course. He went 251-174 for his career, with a 2.91 ERA. In 3884 innings he fanned 3117 and only walked 1336. He had 255 complete games and 56 shutouts.
For all that, Gibson was significantly better in the postseason. He went 7-2 with 8 complete games in nine starts. He had a 1.89 ERA. In 81 innings he fanned 92 and walked 17. He threw two shutouts. Twice he won game seven of the World Series, once on two days rest.
Sandy Koufax was another pitcher who was even better in the postseason than the regular season. His career mark was 165-87, with a 2.76 ERA, 40 shutouts, and 2396 Ks in 2324 innings. In the postseason, Koufax was only 4-3 (he lost a game in the 1959 Series 1-0), but his ERA was 0.95, he had four complete games and two shutouts, he fanned 61 and only walked 11 in 57 innings (he allowed only 36 hits). In 1965, after pitching a shutout in game five, on two days rest he threw another shutout in game seven, as LA won 2-0.

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

And well said, that "clutch" is too broad a term to use across the board for every motor skill involved in baseball.

Consider that the pitcher is the only player on the field who actually initiates the action. The play doesn't start until he does. Everyone else is in reactive mode. He's the initiator.

The mindset behind pitching is very similar to golf. You imagine the action you're about to initiate, and you start the play. If you're prone to mental distractions or negative thinking/visualization, you're in big trouble.

Hitting and fielding is reactive in nature. Similar to return of serve in tennis. You are waiting for someone else to start the play, and reacting rather than initiating. Good fielders go over their responsibilities before the play starts, then shift to visual thinking as the play starts.

Hitters do the same. Good hitters, to varying degrees, think about what the pitcher might throw, then shift to visual thinking, totally reactive and non-verbal thinking. If they're engaged in internal dialogue when the pitch starts, they're doomed.

Choke is too broad a term to encompass all these motor skills and the thought process involved in each.

The ability to quickly shift between linear thinking and internal dialogue analysis to non-linear awareness is a key skill that's not talked about much. In fact, many great athletes do this and could never engage in a discussion about it... they just do it and don't realize the dichotomy between the two.

Now, how did I know you were going to bring Golf into this?

It's absolutely pathetic that people can't have an opinion from actually watching games and supplementing that with stats. If you voice an opinion that doesn't fit into a black/white box you will get completely misrepresented and basically called a tobacco chewing traditionalist...

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

One of the funniest signs I've ever seen a fan display at a game was when the Braves were in the World Series when Lemke had a few big hits. Someone in the opposing crowd was holding a sign saying, "What's a Lemke?"

Re: Interesting post from Sons of Sam Horn...

Originally Posted by MWM

One of the funniest signs I've ever seen a fan display at a game was when the Braves were in the World Series when Lemke had a few big hits. Someone in the opposing crowd was holding a sign saying, "What's a Lemke?"

Lemke does the pre and post game radio show for the Braves. He's HORRIBLE.

This is his second year with the job, I'm hoping they find someone else next year.

blah.

"But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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