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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by haymarket

The Marx I know the most about is Groucho.

The idea that we chose between what you call 'liberty' and what you call 'equality of outcome' is a false framing of the issue.

People are not equal and no amount of government can ever change that. What government can do is to use its powers to help build a society which is sustainable and a place where people want to live and work as citizens with equal rights.

Ah...good intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. A far better approach is to do no harm. That requires restraint.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by teamosil

Sure, there can be tension between any two policy goals. You balance and try to optimize them together.

The left isn't capable of balance. It believes it has a higher moral vision that entitles it to ignore the "ends/means test." Because the ends justify the means the left is capable of anything, except restraint.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Are you under the impression that you had the right to buy or not buy every single thing you want to buy before the SC decision? What about the decision changed that in any real way?

One: I never said that I had a right to buy whatever I wanted. However we did have a right to choose to NOT buy something before this decision. Big difference. Of course I'm quite sure you knew that since you threw in the words "you want to buy" in there. A typical dishonest tactic that you like to employ.

Originally Posted by haymarket

Many things come with a price. Now you know what the price is for not being responsible for your own insurance so the rest of society does not have to buy for you what you would not buy for yourself.

God what a stupid statement. The whole point of requireing the mandate was to spread the cost of peoples medical bills among the people. IE YOU'RE STILL PAYING FOR EVERYONE ELSE'S MEDICAL! Something which was a talking point of people that were for this mandate. That people would no longer have to pay for other peoples medical bills. Guess what...still going to happen. And this isn't even considering the fact that even more people will be eligible for medicaid with this POS legislation than before.

Also you are ignoring the fact that there is only one day out of the entire year in which people actually have to have insurance. Thats tax day. The rest of the year they don't have to have it. All they have to do is show they have insurance. Hell, they don't even HAVE to have insurance to show a piece of paper which says you have insurance but is in actuality just a piece of paper printed off a computer like so many insurance companies like to let ya do....and is valid proof of such....even among cops.

Last edited by Kal'Stang; 06-30-12 at 02:38 PM.

I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Ah...good intentions. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. A far better approach is to do no harm. That requires restraint.

You left off the word FIRST - as in - To first do no harm. Doing no harm is only the first part of the rule. Much follows.

__________________________________________________ _
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

One: I never said that I had a right to buy whatever I wanted. However we did have a right to choose to NOT buy something before this decision. Big difference. Of course I'm quite sure you knew that since you threw in the words "you want to buy" in there. A typical dishonest tactic that you like to employ.

Great. So we agree there is no right to buy or not to buy that simply is a reality of life.

Citizens who drive a motor vehicle - and that would be the vast majority of Americans are forced to purchase insurance for that vehicle. This is nothing radical or revolutionary. It is well established.

Last edited by haymarket; 06-30-12 at 02:42 PM.

__________________________________________________ _
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

Also you are ignoring the fact that there is only one day out of the entire year in which people actually have to have insurance. Thats tax day. The rest of the year they don't have to have it. All they have to do is show they have insurance. Hell, they don't even HAVE to have insurance to show a piece of paper which says you have insurance but is in actuality just a piece of paper printed off a computer like so many insurance companies like to let ya do....and is valid proof of such....even among cops.

If that happens, we can work so that is dealt with.

And you still DO NOT HAVE TO BUY HEALTH INSURANCE.

__________________________________________________ _
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by haymarket

You left off the word FIRST - as in - To first do no harm. Doing no harm is only the first part of the rule. Much follows.

You are correct. First do no harm is the Hippocratic way of saying there is a fiduciary duty to the patient, and that duty begins with doing no harm. I don't believe the federal govt. recognizes any fiduciary duty. In any event, the federal govt. is picking winners and losers on health care. That is hardly the exercise of a fiduciary duty.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by haymarket

Citizens who drive a motor vehicle - and that would be the vast majority of Americans are forced to purchase insurance for that vehicle. This is nothing radical or revolutionary. It is well established.

WRONG. That auto insurance is voluntary, only needed for the PRIVILEGE of driving a specific vehicle, and covers ONLY liability to OTHERS. There is NO penalty for NOT having it, unless you CHOOSE to drive an uninsured vehicle. I can in 2014 be fined (Obama still says that it is NOT a tax, LOL) for simply paying cash for my medical care or not using any medical care at all. That is INSANE.

Last edited by ttwtt78640; 06-30-12 at 03:04 PM.

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by haymarket

People are not equal and no amount of government can ever change that. What government can do is to use its powers to help build a society which is sustainable and a place where people want to live and work as citizens with equal rights.

Sustainable?!?! God that is hilarious.

I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang