ATownAndDown - @TheATownAndDown

johnny I have to slightly disagree with your list. Kyler Elsworth is a monster special teams guy but he is not a guy that would start for most teams. With the way that Davis and Harris performed this spring and what we should be getting from Thomas when healthy, Elsworth is likely the 6th man on the depth chart for OLB. Remember it was Gardiner who made the start for Norman in the Minn and Nebraska games (Elsworth saw increased time in the Neb game because Gardiner was injured). Elsworth has a great heart and determination and I love him on special teams. But if he is on the field for the defense a lot this year, I think we have better options.

Wisconsin loses Jordan Taylor their leading scorer, leading passer, best on the ball defender, and team leader. They also lost their top recruit from last year when Utoff transferred. They do have Sam Dekker coming in but he doesn't play the point. In fact, Wisconsin doesn't have a point guard. They are going to likely have to turn to Josh Gasser who has been playing the 2 for his first 2 years in college. And Dekker is likely going to eat into Ryan Evans minutes who is their top returning scorer.

OSU lost Sullinger and Buford. That is 32 PPG; 14.2 RPG; 2.0 SPG; and nearly half the teams blocked shots per game gone. I mean they are getting a three star shooting guard in this years incoming class so they should be all good to reload, right?

I know MSU has their own questions that need to be answered. But putting the whole ranking hinging on Dawson's return to full strength seems like a stretch. MSU returns a lot of talent that now has a year of experience. They also are bringing in more talent. How that can be dismissed as not keeping up with OSU, U of M, and getting passed by Wisconsin leaves me scratching my head.

Yes Michigan has handled Bell... he only has 14 carries for 98 yards and TD in the 2 games he has played against them. 7.0 yards a carry is really keeping a guy in check. Remember, Bell didn't get his normal carries against Michigan in either game because Baker was tearing U of M up. This year it will be Bell getting the rock. A couple other factors on this to consider, Bell is a physical back meaning that as a general rule he becomes more effective as the game goes on and the defense wears down. U of M has never had to respond to that attack because MSU has never had to use it. Finally, U of M lost 3 very very key players to the DLine. Bell is generally a between the tackles runner so how are you going to compare U of M's past 2 years performances against him when they are missing the most important part of their defense to stopping that kind of runner.

And yes Izzo schedules tough games early in the year to prepare for the tournament. He does this because come Tourney time, MSU is likely to see those teams or similar teams with the same skill level and attack. That is basketball and this is football. U of M will likely not face Bama again and MSU does not run the same scheme as Bama. So great, U of M will be prepared for a highly talented and skill team that runs the 3-4. How does that help them prepare for MSU's 4-3? The schemes very even more from there... Last year Bama DB's accounted for 2.5 sacks. Johnny Adams had 3.0 sacks alone last year. Bama regularly rushes 550+ times a season and passes less than 350. MSU is generally pretty balanced between the rush and pass (MSU has only gone over 500 carries twice under Dantonio and those were his first 2 years).

So even based on this, U of M is using a team that runs a 3-4 (and uses that front 7 to pressure the QB) and has a run heavy offense to prepare for MSU that runs a 4-3 (and uses the entire defense to pressure the QB) and runs a balanced offense? I don't even want to get into the difference is pass coverages and blocking schemes but they are different. That would be like Izzo using a match up against UNC to prepare for Louisville.

By the way, what if Bama blows up U of M like they did MSU 2 years ago? How does that help U of M in the least?

Wrigger, I will play devil's advocate simply for the purposes of this conversation. In no way does this actually shape my thinking and I agree with most of your points.

DRob while not the greatest QB ever to grace U of M's campus still matched Cousins yards last year and accounted for 11 more TD's than Cousins. Now he did have 5 more picks but 36 TD's to 15 Int's is still not bad... and that was a down year compared to his sophomore campaign. If DRob can cut down on the TO's even slightly and get closer to the 4000 yard mark again, that is a serious issue for the B1G to deal with.

You also need to account for the fact that U of M is returning a 1000 yard rusher not named DRob in Fitz. On top of that they are pretty fired up about Rawls and Hayes at RB. And yeah they lost some at the WR but how much did they really lose... Hemingway's 34 catches? They still have Gallon's 31 catches and Roundtree's 19 (number 2 and 3 on the team last year).

And they did lose some quality guys up front but Will Campbell and Jibreel Black showed some nice improvement last year. There biggest question mark is that other DE position opposite of Roh. But besides that they return all of their LB's and a big chunk of their secondary. Even if the run defense isn't as good, there is still a lot of bodies to slow it down and even more to stop the pass.

You actually point out MSU's biggest flaw on offense... experience. Maxwell has been around for 3 years but has done nothing. WR's just about the same. And that is a run game that even at the end of the year was only averaging 150 yards per game (those numbers all year long would have moved us up 0 spots over our 11th in the B1G). So there is not a ton of game experience and we are banking on a unit that even by the end of the year was not that effective. Not a strong plan.

And the defense (even though it returns some studs) still has question marks too. What is it going to look like without Worthy? I mean if he is attracting doubles and triples can the returning guys create on their own? How will that affect the LB's blitzing? Are we going to see ARW of the UGA game or the guy that was hurt all year? Does the secondary struggle to replace Robinson? Can the secondary make up for those lost tackles? Basically, you could have a situation where you lost only 2 guys, but those two were the hinges on the defense and the keys to its success.

Like I said, merely playing devils advocate to show there is more than one way to view a situation. While we are excited about new guys and what they can do, outsiders see it as questions that might not be able to be answered.

Reading that message makes me want to gouge my eyes out. Yes U of M won six straight but that was 2 coaches ago. When Lamarr Woodley comes running out of that tunnel and slaps that blue banner, that is when that statement will make sense.

No offense... so a team that has a running back that has been named as one of the 5 players to watch in the race for B1G player of the year, has no offense? Where is Michigan's offense going to come from, DRob and Fitz in the backfield debating whose turn it is to run with the ball? Maybe you would like to elaborate on that comment.

And how is Bama going to get U of M ready for MSU? Those games are 50 days and 5 games apart from one another. Not to mention, Bama runs a 3-4 and MSU runs a 4-3. So your "warm up" game is going to be 50 days before and a totally different system. Great game planning there. And the fact that you need a defense as good as Bama to prepare you for MSU's defense, speaks volumes to how "overrated" you think MSU's defense is.

I don't know if I can get on board with your comparison of Hoke to Weis. First off, Weis did better in year 2 at ND than he did in year one. Second of all Weis had the fatal flaw of many college coaches when coming to play with the big boys, he thought his offensive scheme could overcome the teams lack of defense (Michigan Man knows all about that theory). Look at those last few years. Rarely was there a team not putting up 30+ points on ND. Not to mention look at Weis' DC in those last 2 years... Corwin Brown? The guy isn't even a coach anymore on any level. Hoke at least has surrounded himself with some good assistant coaches.

Also, please stop with the home heavy schedule gave U of M their 11 wins. Was it the most grueling schedule ever? No but all you can do is play the games that are in front of you and move on. Michigan did what they had to to do. They beat 8 teams that went to bowl games last year. Does home field advantage change the outcome of one or two of those games? Maybe but even a 9 win team is still nothing to overlook.

U of M lost some big pieces in the trenches and that might end up being their Achilles heal this year but that does not mean they are not going to be a better team. Heck, they might be a better team than last year and still not get to 11 wins. MSU needs to be ready to deal with them. Not to mention, you are giving U of M credit for their season last year because of home field advantage but you seem to overlook that factor in this years game. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Bottom line, both sides (thank you azwolverine1 for your reasonable comment) need to recognize and respect the other program for what they are today. U of M has its issues that it will need to deal with this year and MSU has the same. But both teams have some strengths that are not to be overlooked. I would tread lightly with dismissing Hoke as the next Charlie Weis and with dismissing U of M this year. Its going to be a good game.

Woodley was viewed as a OLB his sophomore year and actually, if I remember right, was one of the teams leading tacklers. By his senior year, he was predominantly a DE and became much more of a pass rush specialist than a tackling LB. His lack of acclaim going into his junior year was probably due to his average ability as an OLB in a 4-3 compared to his extraordinary ability as a blitzer.

As for the "apples to oranges" comparison of Simon and Gholston, while Simon was viewed as a a DT his sophomore year, he spent more time as a DE last year. That includes being listed as the starting DE in OSU's last five games. There is also a lot of convolution in their starting lineups with games having 3 or 4 DT's starting. It should also be noted that he is currently listed as the starting DE for this year. So maybe its more comparing green apples to red apples, and this year it appears we are going to get a front row seat for a direct comparison.

What about the 3-4? You know thinking about the depth at LB and with a couple of guys in particular, it almost makes more sense to run a 3-4.

We already have a mountain of a NT in ARW. Gholston and Hoover/Kitteridge are good sized guys to man those inside DE positions. Norman is good enough to slide inside. We know Allen is one heck of a blitzing OLB. And then Thomas would seem to be a perfect fit on the other side. Even Rush (if he is still in that 250 lbs range) showed the ability to slide out into coverage so he might be a nice fit in that spot too.

I just see that group and there is so much talent and you get some of those guys in a better position to make plays. At the same time, I think whether or not it get used is going to be based on the loss. If Gholston is rendered ineffective because he moves to the tackles inside shoulder, is it worth it? Then at the same time, does Hoover become more effective at his natural position? Does getting Thomas on the field in that position make up for that? Can the attention Gholston gets free up one of those LB's regularly? There are a lot of questions that would need to be answered. But its a fun theory to kick around.

eazydoesit... Worthy was great and there is no denying that. But Jaded is 100% correct that he has admitted that he took plays off and was not on the field for some big plays. So in reality do you want a 100 rated guy only 67% of the time or do you want a 90 rated guy 100% of the time? While Worthy commanded a double team, there were times where offences didn't have to pay attention to him (because he was on the sideline), would gamble that he wasn't bringing it all, or could check him and slide the double team off of him when he wasn't coming hard.

I think with both Cousins and Worthy, their replacements are going to be able to at least come close to matching their on the field out put from last year. Both of their absences will be felt in the leadership department but I think we all know who was more important to the team there. Between Norman, Bullough, Adams, you have guys that will be loud in that defensive huddle. On the offensive side and for the team as a whole, how do you replace a Kirk Cousins. That guy was a leader for the B1G, not just MSU.

Where in the heck do you people learn to read? Can someone please look up the word difference for me? (By the way, what do the words I type "sound" like? Because the last time I checked, when you are reading the written word, you don't get to change the words to fit what you think it "sounds" like. The words are what they are.)

crisprock.... when was the last time you ever said "there is a 2 hour difference in travel time from my house to my grandma's house." What does that mean? Different than what? I know you might try and reason it out but I am sure that if you are honest with yourself you know that statement alone does not make any sense.

Now once again lets put the parenthetical in context of the paragraph. The discussion was regarding the geographic location of the 4 universities. I made the statement "Iowa-Purdue makes more sense geographically." Once again, under the impression that most residence of Michigan know the travel time from East Lansing to Bloomingtion and West Lafayette is about the same, the logic question would be is one of those campuses actually closer to Iowa City. Once again the parenthetical was to clarify that it is 2 hours DIFFERENCE in travel time from West Lafayette to Bloomington. Or in other words, if West Lafayette is closer to Iowa City and Bloomington is 2 hours away from West Lafayette, it would take Iowa another 2 hours to get to Bloomington.

And I did correct myself. I have never had to make the trek from Iowa City to Bloomington so I did not know that was alternative routing to the south that cuts 44 minutes off the travel time.

Once again, I apologize for not being crystal clear. I will try and do better.

Actually if you want to get technical on this... read the statement "2 hours difference in travel time from one campus to the other." Now that would difference might not mean anything to you but to the rest of the world that word means something. So your interpretation of what I wrote as "2 hours in travel time from one campus to the other" is still wrong. On top of that the statement should put into context. Where is was written was in the context of comparing the distance between schools. I gave the benefit of the doubt to the average reader on here that they would know that East Lansing is about the same distance to either Bloomington or West Lafayette. So Iowa's positioning was the only one that had to be articulated. I am sorry that I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Next time I will be sure to spell it out more clearly so you can understand.

And to you last paragraph, I am sorry that I am not privy to Mark Dantonio's recruiting schedule but I will be sure to tell you as soon as he gets it to me so we can go over all of the violations together. In the meantime, you should brush up on your recruiting rules. The recruiting dead period is generally from mid-December to mid-January and then from the end of January to signing day (this year that was 3 whole days). There are also various other restrictive dates but regardless, I NEVER said that Dantonio would be swinging through Indy on his way to Bloomington to talk with recruits.

Also, I don't know if you know this but the B1G (prior to the two division) used to schedule home-and-home. So that would mean that the opponents you didn't play in the B1G you had a 2 year hiatus from. So for example, MSU had not played Indiana since 2008 before playing them in 2011. Now not only does MSU get to play Indiana every year but they now have a manufactured rivalry with them. Same goes for NW. Not only does MSU play them every year but the inter-division game carries more weight than just a conference game. What do those two situations mean? The people that are local to those universities pay more attention to MSU. Now at least once a year, MSU football will be prominent in the Indianapolis Star's sports section. But you know you are right that other B1G schools have a presence in those areas too. But U of M's is a little bit less prominent because they don't play them every year.

One of the big reasons why teams like U of M, ND, USC, Texas, etc. enjoyed so much dominance through the years was because those were the teams that got the national games regularly. When you turned on your tv in the 70's guess which teams you likely to see? That regular presence in front of the public made a huge difference in recruiting. Now that factor has been diminished by multiple games on multiple networks and the internet, etc. But being present, discussed and relevant still matters. Its more than a physical presence (a term you once again derived on your own).

By the way, way to skirt the issue of your made up long time rivalry between Iowa and Purdue.

I have heard that Kittredge is being under sized. Guy was listed as 250-260 out of high school. Vandy was playing him at guard. MSU's website has him listed at 271. I have heard that he is at least cleared 280 probably closer to 290. If he can get that strength up and keep that motor going, he should be a good one.

Remember that Worthy at his best was quick (so quick sometimes that he appeared to be offsides). Now I am not saying that either of them can be Worthy next year nor do I think anyone is asking them to be. But we have seen Hoover's quickness and if Kittredge can get after it too, I think we are going to be ok. You also have to anticipate that MSU's DE's and blitzes from the outside are going to force a lot of QB's to step up into the space these guys should be occupying.

Ooooooo big dig by B1Gb. Then again showing those colors with that reading comprehension thing...

"2 hours difference in travel time from one campus to the other" was stated to signify that its another 2 hours to from Bloomington, IN to West Lafayette, IN (as in Iowa would have another 2 hours to go). But I do have to stand corrected, according to Google Maps its an hour and 16 minute difference. And it is over 300 miles between West Lafayette, IN and Iowa City.

And Purdue has a rivalry with Indiana. They also have the cannon trophy for the Illinois game. There is also a rivalry with ND. I am pretty sure there was something between NW and Purdue (could be wrong on that one). But I have never heard of an Iowa-Purdue rivalry until the two divisions. Could you please cite your source?

Also, how can a cross over rival of Indiana be a bad thing... Let's see: Yearly game with NW so Chicagoland is covered; yearly game with Indiana so Indianapolis is covered; coach has strong ties to the state of OH; and being a Michigan school Detroit is covered.... so is there a major metropolitan area in the Midwest that MSU is not developing ties to?

I like the way you think William... not let's see here... U of M has never won a coaches poll national championship and has won an AP championship only twice. MSU won the coaches and AP in 1952 and the coaches in 1965. So according to your theory... MSU - 2; U of M - 2.

Also what polls gave U of M a championship in those years? Wasn't U of M ranked like 6th in '73?

I don't think there was much negotiation there. U of M and OSU was obvious. PSU and Nebraska was held out to be a match up from the beginning. Wisconsin-Minn and NW-Ill were obvious. That leaves MSU and Iowa to be matched up with Indiana or Purdue. And from those 4 schools, Iowa-Purdue makes more sense geographically (2 hours difference in travel time from one campus to the other). But from what I heard it was more of a draw than a negotiation on the match up.

The only lobbying I heard of was for NW to be in MSU's division because MSU wanted the increased presence in the Chicagoland area for recruiting.

I am growing tired of the Raburn warm up. This year is by far his worst. In the previous seasons he was at least around the .200 line and his OBP was ok (often around .300). This year his OBP is barely .200 and he has some serious work to get to .200 (he could get there if he goes 8 for 9 over the next few games but I am not holding my breath).

Also, even if he puts on the same flurry that he did last year... he will be able to squeak into a .235 BA. Right now there are 34 2B that have are hitting .235 or better. I guess if we are happy with Raburn's late season heroics to get to be a .235 hitter, why not just bring in a guy that will be there all year long? Yes you would sacrifice the possibility of a .300+ hitter for the month of August but then again what if Raburn can't conjure up the same magic he did in the previous seasons? This does not even get into the obvious improvement in the glove that you could have.

The Tigers don't need anything spectacular at 2B. In fact they are 6-5 in games Raburn gets a hit so its not like they light up the world when that spot hits. Look at a team like Philly to shop Pete Orr in a couple of weeks. Chase Utley should be back soon and Galvis has been the starter. Galvis is also 10 years younger than Orr. Orr's .300 BA this year should not be the selling point... his career .250 should be. Orr has never gotten a starting chance so who knows how he will respond but I would take .250 out of our 9 hitter all year long.

I normally don't point things like this out in other people's comments but "new non-experienced" QB? Wouldn't that suggest that our previous QB was a "non-experienced" QB? You do know that was Kirk Cousins, three time captain?

And while I do believe Ondre Pipkins has a nice future, you relying on a player that is not even on the U of M roster yet to make such a great impact on this season (and the MSU game particularly) seems a little misplaced. Freshman football players have a tough time adjusting. No where is such an adjustment more difficult than in the trenches. You are generally talking about guys that are 300+ lbs and are playing against 250 lbs high school opponents. These guys are able to have there way because of their size. Then they get to this level and have to go against players that are their size or bigger, and have the experience and skill levels that are beyond a high schooler. Basically its culture shock and these top players need to adjust their game, develop a mean streak and up their skill level. That is why you see a lot of busts when it comes to high profile OL and DL... they can't make that jump.

Even those that can make the jump struggle early on. Look at the last two top rated DT's (both were not only the #1 rated DT in their class but were top 10 over all. these rankings are well above Pipkins grade). Anthony Johnson went to LSU... Played in all 14 games, started 0 games and totaled out with 12 tackles, 3 for loss and one sack. Sharrif Floyd... played in all 13 games, started 0 games and totaled 23 tackles, 8 for loss and 0 sacks. Not exactly striking fear into their opponents in those freshman seasons.

I don't think Maxwell, the offensive line, or any of the coaches for MSU are really going to be game planning for Pipkins this year and I would be shocked if Pipkins even got a hand on Maxwell.

Even without Parker that 2013-14 team is going to be a superb group. Even without that class included in the discussion of that team, I think you are going to have one of the post productive PG in MSU history running the show with a ton of a weapons. Just think about Appling pushing the ball up the court with Dawson and Harris as his wings. That trio will be more effective than the Neitzel/Ager/Brown group that was pretty darn good.

Even more to the group, Izzo is always talking about match ups being the key to winning in college basketball. Think of the headaches guys like Kaminski, Valentine, Costello and (with a little bit more development and getting healthy) Guana or Byrd will all create for opposing teams. You are talking about a group of guys that can all be extremely versatile.

Trice had some nice flashes of the guy that caught Izzo's eye in AAU play. I little more time and some better luck with health and you might see a solid number 2 PG that could start for a lot of teams. And Kearney showed last year that he is an Izzo kind of player. If he comes along like he has shown, he could fit into that Austin Thornton role (probably an upgrade).

I think that class is going to be the cherry on top. Parker would make that one of the most dangerous teams in college basketball in a long time. But even guys like Demetrius Jackson or Dominic Woodson would add not only quality depth but be able to play a role that doesn't put a ton a pressure on them to be the best freshman ever.

You know what is funny... is you Michigan Men talk so glowingly of a rivalry game that OSU fan laughed at you for years but then at the same breath you compare it to other games. Do you think that Yankees and Red Sox talk about any other rivalries... no because there is only one in their minds. The fact that you say "Well Michigan has x, y, and z rivals in that order" is funny.

Not to mention your complete lack of respect for you own coach's opinion of who he thinks the team should care about. That is sweet too. Where are the MSU fans telling Mark Dantonio to stick his count down clocks where the sun don't shine because he doesn't know what is truly important to the program. Come on guys... isn't that the allure of Hoke. He is a Michigan Man and knows what Michigan football is all about.

Finally, in all seriousness... what hurts worse: seven straight losses to "your number one" or 4 straight to "your number 3 (or maybe 6 in Mich1's case)"? I guess I could stand losing to my biggest rival but losing to a team that I call little brother repeatedly would not stand.