All this is really an effort to find boots that are compatible with crampons, yet not so heavy that they interfere with the rest of the trip.

"Crampon compatible" has usually meant two things to me: 1) high enough so the ankle strap doesn't make mince meat out of my leg, and 2) stiff enough that when I use rigid strap-on crampons, I don't "walk out" of the crampons as the boot flexes. I've tried wearing crampons with low-cuts, and it just kills my ankles. I've also walked out of my crampons a few times, and boy that is not a good feeling.

I thought that I might be able to get by with flexi-crampons on "soft" boots. The only flexis that I've tried with my normal approach shoes (camp fours by 5.10), were the grivel monte rosas. But the plastic toe binding was so narrow that it was essentially incompatible with 5.10 approach shoes-- it was painful to wear the combo. Too bad, since the Monte Rosas are light.

The compromise is exemplified by my last Sierra trip, 11 days back: Sill from Elinore Lake, via the North (L-shaped) couloir. I wore the Garmont Vetta Hikers, which are not really grippy, but are otherwise supportive and good for boulder-hopping. We basically trudged and boulder-hopped up from Elinore. When we reached the bottom of the L-couloir, we strapped on crampons for a relatively short trip up, before we were on rock again. The couloir averages only ~40 degrees, and it seems a little goofy to plan everything for such a short snow climb; but that's essentially what I did. At the top of the couloir, the vanilla vibram soles were grippy enough for the rest of the trip. There is only about 15-20' of class 4, above the couloir, and I put more confidence in my 50' of rope, than in my soles, for the downclimb to come.

In any case, the Vetta hikers did well, but they were a lot hotter than what I normally wear. Mercifully, it was a pretty cool day. In the couloir, I wished they had stiffer soles; everywhere else, I wished they had stickier soles (but after a while I really didn't miss that so much). At least these boots weigh only about 2.7 lbs. At the end of the day, my feet looked a bit like they had been in a bathtub. I rarely ever get blisters; that day, I just got abrasion on my damp feet, with raw spots that persisted for a 5 days.

You can get flexible center bars from BD and Petzl. In fact, BD Contact crampons come with flexible bars. I get what you're saying though, unfortunately there isn't any uniformity in footwear and crampons.

Nitrox wrote:You can get flexible center bars from BD and Petzl. In fact, BD Contact crampons come with flexible bars. I get what you're saying though, unfortunately there isn't any uniformity in footwear and crampons.

I think this is a new trend-- I have older BD contacts and they have very stiff center bars. The G10s used to be similar, but the last pair I saw in a store had flexible bars. There is a new lighter version of the G10 ("lux") that is flexible and seems only to be offered in Britain.

Nitrox wrote:You can get flexible center bars from BD and Petzl. In fact, BD Contact crampons come with flexible bars. I get what you're saying though, unfortunately there isn't any uniformity in footwear and crampons.

I think this is a new trend-- I have older BD contacts and they have very stiff center bars. The G10s used to be similar, but the last pair I saw in a store had flexible bars. There is a new lighter version of the G10 ("lux") that is flexible and seems only to be offered in Britain.

BD includes flexible bars with all of their crampons that have plastic toe bails. I think they made the change at the beginning of last year. They claim that flexible boots are the reason their stainless crampons were breaking.

Back to you original question, the use of Gore-Tex in shoes kills me. I really don't need Gore-Tex most of the time, in fact, most people don't. I haven't found a replacement for my FSN85's yet but they are beat.

I've used the Merrell "Sawtooth" boots for several years now for 3 season use. They take BD contact crampons fine up to about WI2 - AI2. They approximate a 3/4 shank flex and are definitely not waterproof. They have real vibram soles and climb rock up to about 5.6 fine...and I have a pair of non-goat-tex (the yellow ones)Scarpa Charmoz that are stiff and light (3 lb, 2 oz) for when I need real crampon support.

I use a Merrell "Sawtooth" http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product ... mensions=0 It takes a BD Contact just fine and climbs up to WI2 -AI2 and 5.6 rock. The sole stiffness is almost "3/4 shank"...way stiffer than about a half dozen similar competitors...And I use the yellow Scarpa Charmoz (non gore-tex) for more fire power (95 % rigid, 3 lb 2oz, mulaz sole)

alpine345 wrote:I use a Merrell "Sawtooth" http://www.merrell.com/US/en-US/Product ... mensions=0 It takes a BD Contact just fine and climbs up to WI2 -AI2 and 5.6 rock. The sole stiffness is almost "3/4 shank"...way stiffer than about a half dozen similar competitors...And I use the yellow Scarpa Charmoz (non gore-tex) for more fire power (95 % rigid, 3 lb 2oz, mulaz sole)

Wow I'll keep those in mind! I finally see the options that I should have tried before. Thanks guys. The big problem for me is that I like to bend the soles of boots, which is tough to do on-line, and they all look similar. The local REI and Sports Chalet stock a range of Merrills, but they seem biased toward boots with softer soles.

I have old-pre-goretex berghaus over-the-boot gaiters. In my mind, that's where gore-tex belongs.

Those look very similar to my Asolo TPS 520 GV. I use them with my Grivel G12 New Classic crampons and they work find on snow slopes up to 45 degrees. I've used this combination on the Wildstrubel Glacier and the glacier below the Ritter-Banner Saddle.

Nitrox mentioned, but Kayland is an option. Although M11+'s arent light at all, they and others from them use to use eVent. They apparently changed for the M11+'s (I have them), but it isn't gore tex. I know a few people with Kayland boots and they like them as well. Worth a look, I suppose.

DukeJH wrote:Those look very similar to my Asolo TPS 520 GV. I use them with my Grivel G12 New Classic crampons and they work find on snow slopes up to 45 degrees. I've used this combination on the Wildstrubel Glacier and the glacier below the Ritter-Banner Saddle.

The lowas are over a pound lighter, but supposedly have a stiff shank.