I've rarely used a weapon in both hands (like SC/SC) unless my warrior was either Ambidextrous or had SP & DF over 15. However, I recently read in the DM 93 Newsletter that the off-hand weapon is better than a shield as long as you meet the stat criteria. I'm familiar with Assur's tables, so I understand how fighters qualify for using them, but I still have questions.

My questions relate to when its recommended to use two weapons? Are there certain styles that seem to do better than others with this technique (AB or PR)? Is using two hands with the SC better than using one in each hand?

I'm trying to fit the two-weapon technique into my strategies. Therefore, any advice or shared experience would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Trim

Otto_XGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Jan 09, 2003
Posts: 630
Location: Moline, IL

Posted:
Wed May 29, 2013 2:04 pm

I almost never use two weapons. Most guys aren't nearly coordinated enough to even try it. I don't think there's a significant advantage to using an off-hand weapon, anyway.

As to when it is better? Much more complicated question with multiple reasons that I can think of.

1) Theoretically using an offhand weapon would provide more parry than using a single weapon in two hands and you want to parry. Not proven.
2) Don't want a shield in your offhand (attacking with a shield is not usually useful)
3) Offhand weapons have different requirements than main hand weapons. (3 wit in particular)
4) Can wield offhand weapons unsuited to your style (Bashers with the SC).
5) Your main hand weapon doesn't have any known benefit from using it two-handed, so why not carry an offhand weapon as well. Again, nobody is really sure which weapons have benefits for using them in 2 hands, so this is mostly theory.

My own practice:
Most of my WOS's run with a single weapon.
PL's and PR's in particular tend to dual-wield if they aren't using a shield.
I use a lot of off-hand SC's on bashers.

Last edited by Assurnasirbanipal on Thu May 30, 2013 7:38 am; edited 1 time in total

StillgardAdvanced Expert Poster

Joined: Aug 29, 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Green Bay, WI

Posted:
Wed May 29, 2013 2:48 pm

I only use off hand weapons for defensive styles (Wos,PR,PS,PL,TP) and Aimed blows. I mostly use shields with Total Parrys, but I do have a few in advanced that use off hand weapons.

Assur -- Thanks for sharing the link! It's hard to get it using the iPhone.

My only success (very limited) has been with a PR and AB using two weapons. This seems to be the "trend" mentioned here. I may try with my PL just to experiment. I appreciate the responses, they are "food for thought".

I've never heard of two weapons being a favorite, but has anyone thought that it might be? What I mean, could the combination of two weapons be the "real" fave even though the Duel2 software doesn't ever report it?

Just curious ...

KidArcaneGrandmaster Poster

Joined: Apr 26, 2003
Posts: 510
Location: San Antonio, TX

Posted:
Wed May 29, 2013 6:21 pm

Using two weapons (one in each hand) can work very nicely. Most of the time, not so much... I believe it has to do with stats (primarily), style, and individual warrior preferences.

1st, I don't usually bother with an off-hand weapon unless my fighter has the stats to use it in his main hand. However, I have a caveat for this. I have noticed that even though a fighter may be qualified to carry a high DF weapon in the main hand (an epee, for instance) it doesn't follow that he/she will do well carrying TWO epees. Generally, the second weapon should be less demanding -- a hatchet or shortsword, for instance. Something that will parry well with a moderate DF and probably won't break. This is what has usually worked for me, anyway. Regardless, if the DF isn't at least 15 I won't try using two weapons, even if they are capable of it (theoretically). And then I'm playing it defensive, very defensive. I'm not going for the riposte or response tactic. Personally, I don't believe the successful two hands/two weapons warrior has a DF less than 17. No doubt some manager somewhere can show you an example of one, but I have never seen it.

2nd, the style is important. Defensives (parry-anything) and the AB seem to work better with two weapons than anything else. I realize that most managers (it seems to me) will take any fighter with a DF of 17+ and make it an AB. (HIGH DF? IT'S AN AIMER -- PERIOD!) But parry types also do well with the DF, and they are more likely to use that off-hand weapon offensively! Wastes? For best results I go two-handed on one weapon or carry a shield. Classic but very reliable. However, I think the AB, above all other styles, is most likely to use both weapons! But again, this is just what I've observed and this is based on me and how I run 'em. I don't have tons of experience with AB's. Having said that, I have had high-wit TP's who have done very well with off-hand weapons. So well, in fact, they died within ten or twelve turns because they just rose through the ranks too quickly!! I see a lot of damage-sponge TP's lately, but I haven't seen a genius TP in a while. They are dangerous with an off-hand weapon!

3rd point I want to make -- I had a lot of success with a PR who used an off-hand weapon, so I made another and tried it again. It didn't do well at all. Maybe it was the rhythm, or maybe the stats were just too different from my previous PR (but not by much) but that strategy simply didn't work for me twice.

I advocate simply trying it and seeing how it works. I would suggest your fighter have at least an Expert in Parry or Riposte before you try, though, unless it's an AB. Good luck!

_________________"Don't make me destroy you." -- Darth Vader

TripwireArchMaster Poster

Joined: Mar 10, 2008
Posts: 1977

Posted:
Wed May 29, 2013 6:33 pm

I use it for warriors that I want to parry and attack. Thus PR, PL and OTP's I have used it successfully.

Usually somethign like LO/SH, LO/DA etc. That way you have something that you can parry with as well as having a weapon in your off hand instead of a shield that gives cruddy damage.

I don't think I have used a shield with a PL in a very very long time.

What about the warriors who are ambidextrous? Does this mean they can automatically use two weapons? Or do they still need to meet the stat requirements?

BTW - Your tidbits of wisdom is exactly what I was looking for in this topic. Great responses! Some confirms my guesses and others are altogether new material for me.

The ConsortiumArchMaster Poster

Joined: Nov 23, 2002
Posts: 8886
Location: on the golf course, in the garden, reading, traveling, and now Consulting

Posted:
Thu May 30, 2013 12:30 am

Seldom use two.
When might we:
1. When we are unsure that our warrior will pull his backup weapon when needed, hence and do not want to take a chance without a weapon, then will use off hand.
2. When a parry weapon seems appropriate (e.g. TP, PR, etc) and want a weapon the warrior might attck with rather than a shield

I haven't used an off hand weapon since I came out of retirement. I was wondering if it was still a good choice. If I did use an off hand weapon, I preferred short swords or daggers. I only used this tactic with parry-riposte.

DekeAdvanced Master Poster

Joined: Aug 15, 2006
Posts: 390
Location: Atlanta Georgia Area

Posted:
Thu May 30, 2013 11:58 am

If I remember I will send my Longsword Lunger out with a main hand LO and an off hand SH, and let you know how it woks out.

_________________Deke is a relic of the past known as Doc LeGrand
Arena 21, 81, 102 as Doc LeGrand's Lab

No rush. Take your time. Feel free to even skip this turn. And I'm not saying that based on how well my team did this turn.

trmwebExpert Poster

Joined: Dec 05, 2012
Posts: 82
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posted:
Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:52 pm

If this a spammer (and I think they are), they are rather clever. Even so, it was good to re-read these posts. Maybe some of the more "meaty" posts should be intentionally "bumped" (by actual DM2 players).