Every Explorer Post I've been involved with they members have been able to go on any call that the Unit they're assigned goes on. We do have limits and strict limitations as to what they can do once on scene. Our Explorers have to stay in eye contact with an Explorer Advisor no matter what they are assigned. Not all our personnel are Advisors so it works...

My .02 is that Explorers like to do the support jobs that Career FFs don't like to do such as rehab and filling BA bottles. So I'll plug them in here...

i run every call and do anything on scene except go into a involved structure, somethings require me to be with a senior officer but alot depends on your dept, your knowledge/time with dept and how trusted you are. As for structures i can go in on over haul and work hotspots and do overhaul.

i run every call and do anything on scene except go into a involved structure, somethings require me to be with a senior officer but alot depends on your dept, your knowledge/time with dept and how trusted you are. As for structures i can go in on over haul and work hotspots and do overhaul.

My advisor would never think about putting an explorer in the hot zone.I'm glad because if something were to happen and I got hurt he and the department would be in the middle of a big lawsuite.

With good reason. Explorers aren't allowed to go into a hot zone which would make the lawsuit all that much worse because the department would be operating outside of its insurance limits of liability.

With good reason. Explorers aren't allowed to go into a hot zone which would make the lawsuit all that much worse because the department would be operating outside of its insurance limits of liability.

If there is a spot for me on the rig, I'm going. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll get to do something onscene, but at least I'll get to be there and learn from watching.

Officially, I am not allowed to touch any patients or enter any IDLH situation, but doings things like overhaul or investigating smoke aren't out of the question.

It really just depends on what the officer lets me do. Some guys won't let me even climb the ladders during drills, but others tend to ignore the rules. Either way if I'm at the station or at an incident, I'm learning and that's all that is all I can ask for.

If there is a spot for me on the rig, I'm going. That doesn't necessarily mean I'll get to do something onscene, but at least I'll get to be there and learn from watching.

Officially, I am not allowed to touch any patients or enter any IDLH situation, but doings things like overhaul or investigating smoke aren't out of the question.

It really just depends on what the officer lets me do. Some guys won't let me even climb the ladders during drills, but others tend to ignore the rules. Either way if I'm at the station or at an incident, I'm learning and that's all that is all I can ask for.

Thats what I am there for to, so I can learn all I can. I just don't think an explorer should be hitting hotspots.

Thats what I am there for to, so I can learn all I can. I just don't think an explorer should be hitting hotspots.

Like I said, it's above my (nonexistent) paygrade about whether or not I am allowed to hit any hotspots, but there's really no better way to learn than to actually do.

I don't think hitting hotspots is out of the question if the Explorer knows what he or she is doing and an officer is supervising them. Granted, having to watch the Explorer might slow the crew down, and if that's the case the Explorer should definitely not participate, but if the Explorer knows what they're doing, then they are an extra set of hands to help.

An Explorer getting hurt helps nobody, so erring on the side of caution is always the better bet, but if an incident is easily manageable and the officer thinks it is safe enough for the Explorer to participate, then letting him or her do so would be an invaluable learning experience.

LAFD Crew 3 is a Volunteer Type II Handcrew managed by the Los Angeles Fire Department. Crew 3 is currently organized as a Wildland Cadet Post. Crew 3 Members receive wildland classes and hands-on training as well as career guidance to help with successful careers in the Fire Service. Crew 3 is managed and run by LAFD Members with extensive wild land training and handcrew experience.

We can go on all fire calls between the hours of 6 am to 9pm during the school year as long as we are not in school. During the summer we can respond 24/7. As far as what we can do, it all depends on who you ask. Our chief is great about giving me a job, there are a few others who are also good. And then there are those who will say you can pretty much do nothing. It all depends on what is going on.

Our post can ride anytime between shift start 0700 and 2200. During that time we respond on everything. We can't do everything but we always go. Pretty much we can do anything not IDLH. So all medical call, overhaul, grass fires. On some calls like rescues we can go to "the edge" and depending on the urgency and specific sitution--available manpower, time, place, officer, training--go further.

When it comes to doing questionalbe activities, like going in a hot zone or even entering a structure, it all depends on your departments sign off sheets. If a parent signs off allowing their child to enter an IDLH environment and it's worded correctly, most lawsuits can be prevented. As for most other things, it depends on the departments insurance. Once I was on a department who's insurance wouldn't cover any cadet riding on "emergency apparatus" (any vehicle responding with lights and sirens), therefore all cadets had to ride in chase vehicles. Every states laws, and every departments bylaws are different. Just make sure you know yours.

Not true, by operating outside of the Learning for Life Insurance limitations (for lack of a better way to put it) the FD assumes all responsibility financially

If a parent signs off allowing their child to enter an IDLH environment and it's worded correctly, most lawsuits can be prevented.

Again, not true..... If people can sue and win over spilled hot coffee they ordered in the drive-thru of McDonalds what makes you think that the parent signing a piece of paper is going to prevent a lawsuit? Anybody can sue over anything, if it's legit or not legit that is different and will be decided in midigation or court. If it is legit, then the FD will be found financially responsible for the damages (physical and mental).

Another issue is to defend the actions of the Explorer Post the Fire Chief, Head Advisor and the C.O. that allowed the Explorer to enter the IDLH and get injured will have to personally appear before the mediator or judge/jury to explain their actions. This means at a minimum, (1) (in reality way more) days that the FD does not have it's leadership readily available. This means that instead of managing his/her FD the Fire Chief is stuck defending the actions of his FD. The Head Advisor (in my FD, a Captain) will be paid to defend their actions and back-filled with OT. The C.O. that gave the order will be paid to represent their actions as well. So, the FD will have the Fire Chief unavailable and pay for 3 1/2 C.Os that are not working; to me this seems fiscally irresponsible.

To me it's simple..... If volunteer/paid-on-call/career FFs have to have specific training and have to follow NFPA and State Guidelines/Regulations then Explorers must abide by strict Bylaws/SOGs/SOPs. Keep them out of the "Hot Zone" and "IDLH". Explorers are not and should not be used to augment manpower on emergency calls. If additional manpower is needed, strengthen your Auto/Mutual Aid Agreements and increase the amount of Units that are dispatched to your calls. Explorers are there to learn and I have seen some "dialed-in" Explorers but the fact is still that they have limitations to what they can do.

Don't put your FD, Fire Chief, C.Os and your Community in a position to be fiscally responsible for something that is so simple to avoid.

Explorer Guidelines

* Explorers may not be substituted for trained personnel.
* Explorers must be equipped with personal protective equipment that is appropriate for the activity being done.
* Explorers may be mobilized only as a post, with required leadership. Explorers are not on call as individuals.
* Explorers who ride on apparatus or other department vehicles must be seated and must wear a seat belt.
* Explorers may not drive department vehicles.
* Explorers may not climb aerial ladders.
* Explorers may not climb ground ladders that exceed 35 feet in length, or not supported against a structure.
* Explorers may not enter or perform ventilation procedures on a burning structure.
* Explorers may not use any tools or gloves on energized electrical equipment.
* Explorers may not operate cutting torches
* Explorers may not operate hydraulic rescue tools or equipment.
* Explorers may not handle life nets.

Exceptions: Using an official training facility, the use of aerial ladders with the appropriate safety equipment, and entering a controlled burn building is approved.

This is right from the Learning for Life's website under Fire & Emergency Service Exploring Programs Guidelines.

This is right from the Learning for Life's website under Fire & Emergency Service Exploring Programs Guidelines.

But at the same time, you have to realize that not all explorer posts operate under BSA Learning for Life. Some of the local departments around me have their own legal documents for the parents and explorers to sign regarding entering IDLH environments. Also, those departments have specific insurance for their explorers that would allow them to do those activities. I completely understand the BSA Learning for Life limitations, but not all posts are under their control.

That's very interesting..... I have actually learned something from you here. Well, as long as it's correct (not doubting you, just never seen a Post ran that way).

Curious, why did your Post decide to run that way? Maybe you know, maybe not...

What did you have to have in place to operate this way? I'm not thinking about running ours this way, just curious what training, financial backing, organization, liability insurance, etc. is needed in place of being a Learning for Life Post. Of course, here in California LFL is the only organization I've ever heard of that has this type of program.

That's very interesting..... I have actually learned something from you here. Well, as long as it's correct (not doubting you, just never seen a Post ran that way).

Curious, why did your Post decide to run that way? Maybe you know, maybe not...

What did you have to have in place to operate this way? I'm not thinking about running ours this way, just curious what training, financial backing, organization, liability insurance, etc. is needed in place of being a Learning for Life Post. Of course, here in California LFL is the only organization I've ever heard of that has this type of program.

"My" post isn't run this way but some other local posts are. They chose it to give their cadets more experience. Those posts have a lot more serious cadets (they don't call them explorers as to not be confused as LFL participants). The department has to do A LOT of legal consultation when writing SOPs and cadet rules and regulations. Also, the deparment must consult with their insurance company to discuss coverage (some insurance companies will deny coverage, but if it's approved, it can be extremely expensive). Most departmens that have this charge the cadets anually/biannually for insurance coverage. Few departmets run this way, but it's usually for departments with low staffing that really need extra hands on the fire grounds. The cadets go through rigorous training and lots of paperwork before entering any IDLH environment. So far in my area there has not been any cases of any cadets being injured on a fire scene.

As of now, our department allow's JR's to ride the truck to any nature of call. Granted they are only allowed to do certain things on a MVA or Fire type scene, but they are usefull none the less. I just got bumped up to a Firefighter from Jr position, and a new member just joined taking my spot. I realise now how important I was as a Jr to all the firefighters I was helping at the time. Our Jr (we only have one right now) Is old enough to have his EVOC and his FF1 etc, but does not have any classes other then in house training, what he can do on the fireground is judged by our SOP's and our commanding officer/captain of Ladder Co.