1) Personal relationships is the reason why we have wealth. If the surgery will improve your relationships, or help you gain more relationships, then you should go for it.
Read this for more on the rational behind financial success.http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120769727703599697.html

2) Cosmetic surgery is cheaper in asian countries. Korea is probably the safest, as it’s very common for them to do their thing

Okay, #3 just snuck in. If you’re 41, you definately need to start putting $$ away for retirement. Read up on blog posts on compound interest.

]]>By: Bri-Austinhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-217499
Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:53:16 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-217499Cosmetic surgery – an often unmentioned potential problem for people over 50 is the highly toxic effect of anesthesia on the brain. There are an unfortunate few who suffer significant loss of memory for prolonged periods of time post surgery (of any kind)- possible a year or more of noticeable cognitive problems. For the even more unfortunate few there are some who after the insult of anesthesia to their brain suddenly enter into early onset Alzheimer’s with a steep decline into dementia – over 2-3 years. It is hazardous enough to have to have necessary procedures such as heart stenting or hip repair and face significant cognitive losses. If you have to have procedures try to avoid total anesthesia for extended periods of time, local anesthesia is a much safer venue for your brain. The search for beauty – often with multiple procedures requiring complete sedation — could extract a very high price.
]]>By: Keeper Of Stuffhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214880
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:34:24 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214880I can tell that “Denise” is agonizing over this decision, and I truly wish her well. I have read most of the replies to her, and would like to contribute my opinions. If they sound a bit researched and studied, there’s a reason for that…

First of all, I was told years ago by a fitness trainer that I should lose any weight I had to lose by the time I went through menopause (I didn’t). When a woman’s body quits producing those hormones, it has a huge impact on the elasticity of her skin. I lost quite a bit of weight after those years, and my skin is saggier than I would like. However, I switched my goal to becoming healthier and fitter, rather than worrying about how much better I might look.

Second, in response to those who have suggested she seek surgery in other countries – BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL HERE! Many people have to have post-surgery surgeries to FIX the mess made by the original surgery done by what may or may not have been a “certified” and “qualified” “doctor” in another country. I have personally seen legitimate horror stories regarding plastic surgery in border towns. (One of the patients reported that they had had to get off the gurney to swat flies that were hovering over them!) One exception, other than Switzerland or Austria, of course is India, which is quickly becoming known for its treatment of economy-minded Americans in posh hotel-like hospitals. My thought, upon reading about that, was how very difficult it is to make sure all your medical information is understood and accurately recorded HERE in the U.S. (think of the people who get the wrong kidneys removed). Heaven help you when you don’t even speak the same language!

Third, let’s talk about PAIN! My best friend has had quite a few surgeries, and she said that her “tummy tuck” involved quite a bit of pain. When she got her “neck lift,” she got an infection and was on antibiotics for weeks, as well as too swollen to work.

Fourth and final point, although a few have touched on it, no one seems to have stressed it enough. Calling a procedure a “tummy tuck” is a cute name for major surgery. Major surgery is painful and risky. Remember Kanye West’s mother who recently passed away after cosmetic surgery? The woman who wrote the book “The First Wives Club,” on which the movie was based, died recently after a face lift. Also, on a more personal note, a woman I attended high school with was given a desired face lift by her mother as a birthday present in her late 40’s. Guess what? She died that night in the hospital. Talk about guilt .

If you decide to have the surgery, don’t try to economize by going home too early or having it in a facility not able to deal with emergencies.

And for goodness sake – make sure your surgeon is BOARD CERTIFIED in the procedure he/she will be performing. It is a rampant problem right now that many varieties of doctors are calling themselves “plastic surgeons.” Why, you ask? For MONEY. Most cosmetic procedures are not covered by insurance or government programs. Therefore, most doctors get paid the full amount they ask for (without a disallowance by an insurance company), and they usually get their money right away (unlike with an insurance company), whether from the patient or the patient’s finance company.

In closing, I am continually amazed at how much research a person will put into buying a new car or house, and then consent to surgery without having done any at all. Take the emotions out of the equation. Do your homework. Good luck however you choose.

]]>By: silverhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214871
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 03:12:12 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214871“This might be true, but is certainly doesn’t help someone when a person loves them with their clothes on and then rejects them when their relationship is close enough for a more intimate experience.”

I would argue that a woman who plans to have children should never, ever, ever become involved with a man who would recoil at fat or extra skin. Pregnancy does a number on a woman’s body. It would be awful if a woman’s husband became repulsed by her body after she has given birth to his child. Men who are like that don’t deserve to have wives and children.

Let’s say Denise gets the surgery, gets married, and gets pregnant. Let’s say that she gains just 25 lbs during that pregnancy–not an excessive amount at all. That 25 lbs isn’t going to be evenly distributed across her whole body. Her stomach is going to get very large. Even if she quickly goes back to prepregnancy weight–which is difficult for many women to do, she may wind up with saggy skin on her stomach all over again.

I still don’t think the surgery will make her happy. But if she still thinks she needs it, she should at least wait until she’s done having kids, or she risks having the same problem later on.

]]>By: Shawnahttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214837
Sat, 29 Mar 2008 02:16:47 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214837Wow, I was pleasantly surprised with the response Denise got from The Simple Dollar. I am in an identical position, so am glad that her emotional needs were taken into consideration and not just her finances. I will say this… there is a plastic surgeon in Tijuana who works with a lot of Americans (including celebrities that go there for the privacy). He is very well-known and actually has a practice in San Diego also. Many people choose to go to Mexico for the financial savings and from what I’ve heard from others, the cleanliness of the hospital exceeds the cleanliness of ours here in the states. I’ve done a lot of research and have spoken with him a couple of times and I am definitely heading to Mexico when I’m ready for the surgery! (Which will hopefully be sometime soon!)
]]>By: DoubleTroublehttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214110
Fri, 28 Mar 2008 11:45:55 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-214110I am a big person and know that it is very tough in this world to be overweight. Many (NOT ALL) overweight people find their selection of mates, employment and social opportunities to be limited in scope. Losing weight takes hard work and often one loses weight because she/he wants to participate more fully in life. It is not always about vanity. The cruel joke is that when you lose weight at middle-age you end up with excess skin. At a certain point (age and amount of weight lost) this excess skin will NOT go away “with exercise” and it is not a sign that there is more weight to lose as suggested by others. All the exercise in the world will not remove excess skin. It might pull the skin that is attached to the muscles in a little bit tighter, but the skin will not go away.

Many potential suitors and mates will recoil from a fat person; this is a fact. There are also a great number who would recoil from someone who has a gorgeous face, scintillating personality and… OMG – rolls of excess skin once those clothes come off. It is easy to say, “Well those types arent worth dating/being with because they are shallow and insensitive, etc.” This might be true, but is certainly doesn’t help someone when a person loves them with their clothes on and then rejects them when their relationship is close enough for a more intimate experience.

Denise might try to find a doctor that will determine if the excess skin is creating a medical condition that is covered by insurance. If the excess skin is causing chaffing and irritation, infection (as can be caused a draping pannulus over the abdomen), undue tissue injury due to pulling when moving in bed or by clothing then it is possible that this is a medical issue.

]]>By: Mrs. Micahhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-213442
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 20:00:50 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-213442I’d consult with a doctor and nutritionist about it first, find out whether or not the skin will go away.

I wouldn’t want random skin on me either, but if it could go away on its own through further diet and exercise (you’ve already shown you’ve got perseverance!) then I’d do that rather than risk major surgery, scarring, and so forth. I might also talk to a fashion consultant about the best ways to look good right now as my body continues to readjust.

]]>By: tightwadfanhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-213008
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:25:31 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-213008I know a few women who had babies and got the loose skin which never went away. So, no, exercise and time may not fix this, and if Denise gets the surgery I think that’s fine.

However…

DON’T go into debt for this surgery! Usually the advice on this blog is so reasonable, I can’t understand why so many people seem to think it’s a good idea to borrow $17,000 for elective surgery that doesn’t have a pressing need!

Like others have said, the excess skin isn’t noticeable under clothes so this really only becomes a problem if you want to wear a bathing suit or if a guy is going to see you naked. The health problems caused by excess skin may not even happen and if they do will take years to show up. This procedure can wait!

Save the money for the surgery beforehand. When it’s $17000 of your own hard-earned money you’re handing over maybe you’ll feel differently. Maybe saving $17000 will boost your self-esteem more than any surgery could! Who knows what your life will be like in a few years.

In the meantime do your research. Look at before and after photos. Understand that your stomach will still look kind of funny afterwards. Any guy that would reject you for your excess skin will probably also be turned off by the surgical scar and the cellulite.

The surgery won’t fix your self esteem or relationship problems.

People don’t seem to think cosmetic surgery is “real” surgery. It is a serious decision. Any time you undergo anesthesia there are risks, and there is always the risk of infection.

]]>By: Imhohttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212977
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 12:51:40 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212977Do you have access to a medical flexible spending account, there is a $5000 limit per year but that money would be taken out of your check pre-tax and if I figured it right at a 28% tax level you would save $1400. You would still have to come up with the rest and you would have a smaller income for a year as they would take out ($5000 – 1400 = 3600 / 24 (if you get paid 2 times a month)) = 150.oo. Someone out there recalculate it for accuracy. The rest would also be a regular tax deduction at the end of the year.
We max out our flexible spending account every year due to my husbands medical condition and it saves us a fortune.
]]>By: Shanahttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212635
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 06:40:01 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212635Even though it involves regaining debt, I would do this. I’ve seen before and after photos of women who’ve done this, and it’s dramatic. I would imagine most people viewing those photos would agree that it’s a good idea. And to the person who said “but can you/have you kept the weight off?” — I think that’s irrelevant. If someone doesn’t have this kind of surgery, I would think they would be more likely to comfort eat and thus gain the weight back. I would be depressed continually if I lost as much weight as Denise but *then* had to carry around all the excess skin.

Also, why not go to Buenos Aires, which has a huge and good plastic surgery community? People in Buenos Aires are *obsessed* with appearances, and plastic surgery is even covered by some medical insurance plans… It’s far cheaper there than in the US, and they do it well. I know a woman who had facial plastic surgery done there, and it looked great.

]]>By: Margarethttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212554
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 04:33:07 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212554Re borrowing from a 401(k) — I’m not American, but isn’t that your work retirement fund? And isn’t there some rule that if you borrow from it and then leave your job, you have to pay it all back immediately or else face serious tax consequences? It seems to me that I’ve consistently read that borrowing from a 401(k) is risky.
]]>By: Danahttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212495
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:42:55 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212495Oh yeah, and I’ll chime in on the excess-skin-causing-health-problems thing. I haven’t always been this fat, and now that I am, including increased bust size, I have to be extra careful because going too long without a shower will make me more vulnerable to skin infection. It’s got to be worse when most of the excess bodyfat is gone and there’s less mass to hold the skin up out of the way. Ew.
]]>By: Danahttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212493
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:40:12 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212493Why is everybody out to psychoanalyze Denise just because she doesn’t want to be stuck with massive skin folds for the rest of her life? Why is this a sign of mental illness? Is everyone here sure they would want to live that way themselves? Even if they are, how does that qualify them to look down at her for feeling the way she does?

I’ve heard that bit about people who’ve lost a lot of weight, only having the loose skin because they have more fat to lose. I don’t buy it. It might be true if no stretching occurred, but if there are stretch marks, that’s never going to shrink back to normal–it’s always going to sag.

I have almost a hundred pounds to lose and if I pull it off, I’ll be in the same boat. Between two pregnancies and a seventy-pound weight gain after the second baby, I’ve got stretch marks out the wazoo. It’s too late for something like cocoa butter to help me, and although I am Caucasian I have Native American ancestry, and darker white people scar and get stretch marks more easily–the deck is stacked. So I will want to do this as well, and no, it doesn’t mean I’m crazy.

I like the idea of investing the money into the 401k and then borrowing against the 401k. That would give Denise extra time to make sure the weight stays off.

]]>By: moonimushttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212489
Thu, 27 Mar 2008 02:38:21 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212489I would pass on the surgery but I would never advise anyone else from getting it if they firmly believe that it would solve some issues. However, I would agree with all the recommendations that Denise really take an in depth look at herself before she makes the final call. There could be other underlying issues that even she may not be aware of.

I’ve spent the last 12 years saving for retirement, working OT and more than one job and denying myself A LOT of other things so I can max out my 401(k), etc.

Last December for Christmas I spent $800 on Botox and filler. Not an incredible amount of money, I know (I did all the math about how much stock that $800 would buy) and even though I am not a vain person I cannot get over how much better my face looks and even more important how much better my self-esteem is just with this little improvement.

Something like this should be included in all of the articles about “imvesting in yourself”.

Just do it.

]]>By: Ann Bartlesonhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212222
Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:39:32 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212222You have lots of great advice here. I just wonder if you have options for a cheaper doctor. Also, have you been very frank with him and discussed the financial situation? Heck, if he just didn’t charge interest or low interest even that would be helpful.
]]>By: Maryhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212215
Wed, 26 Mar 2008 20:32:40 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212215I lost an excessive amt. of wt. in a short period of time and I had a lot of loose, flabby skin. But that skin has mostly shrunk. For me, it took excercise and patientce. I’m not saying this is Denieses case but, we are an impatient, results driven society. We don’t want to put the effort into something. Why do you think there are so many with credit card detbt? It’s easier to have something now than to wait for it. Plastic surgury is not much different. Yu have to accept yourself for who you are. It’s not going to affect relationships unless you let it. and if some guy is turned off by your body then you didn’t need him anyway. BTW, I know many ppl who are severely overweight or are rather ugly or have really bad bodies and they are in reltationships and are happy. I don’t see how it can affect someone’s career either, unless they are a ‘dancer’ or other related “work”. It sounds more like a self confidence/esteem issue. Think of the risks and the fact that your body will never be perfect. You could very well have a scar after the surgury.You will have stretch marks that will fade, to some extent, over time. In any case, if you really feel that surgury is the only answer, save up all the $ before you go thru with it. This will prevent you from going into debt and give you time to really think about it. And if you still want to go thru with t at that point, go in with a wad of cash and try to negotiate the price.
]]>By: Hhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212169
Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:45:43 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212169the society we live in will continue to make decisions about me based on my appearance which could affect everything from my job prospects to my marriage prospects

Job prospects? Unless she’s entertaining a career as a middle-aged stripper or prostitute or planning on getting a job less by her qualifications, experience and talents and more by stripping naked for the (sexually interested) interviewer, I rather think some excess belly skin is not a going to be problem. When was the last time anyone you knew went for an interview in the corporate world with their midriff exposed?

As for marriage …. whatever. If you want to have surgery for your own self and you CAN afford it and all possible financial repercussions from it (such as loss of savings, possible extra medical expenses arising from complications, loss of income from recuperation time) that’s one thing. To do it to make yourself into a more marketable object … ugh. Reminds me of the latest online Libertoonian pastime of estimating one’s mate’s ‘market worth’, something that should make any self-respecting person projectile vomit their lunch. Do what you want to do, but don’t let people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing browbeat you into thinking no-one will ever love you again if you’re not physically perfect. Of course men who want trophy wives won’t want you – hell, they won’t want me and I don’t have excess skin – I’m just not in my 20s, blonde, skinny or able to simper on demand. The kind of men worth being with won’t reject you on sole account of a bit of extra skin.

]]>By: Imhohttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212098
Wed, 26 Mar 2008 18:34:07 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212098I agree with Rachel, there are many medical reasons to have this done. “recently lost about 80ish pounds & have a ton of excess skin on my tummy.” Recently is hardly a description of how long it took her to lose this weight, she has lost the weight equal to a kid in middle school so she has a lot of excess skin there. I don’t think she needs the self-help books, she want’s the surgery because “it seriously effects my self image and my relationships” but fears being in debt. I understand this from a personal point of view, I was almost completely out of debt when someone offered to purchase my home necessary for their business expansion. It took 2 seconds to make that decision, I jumped at it, the neighborhood was going down hill quickly, and was seriously effecting how I looked at myself, no matter what I did to the house my surroundings dictated how I felt. Denise’s surroundings (skin) are dictating how she feels, now I can’t tell her to go out and spend 17,000 on a surgery, but I sold my old place and went into big debt to get the house I really wanted, safe neighborhood, small town, large yard. When I walked out of that other house for the last time the way I felt about myself immediately changed for the better. I no longer had the problems assiciated with the downward spiral of the neighborhood, the noise from the newly widened road, the questionable renters, thoughts that constantly plagued me. A load was lifed off my shoulders, I have an investment now (new House) and the mortgage to show for it. Do I hate being in debt when my old house was almost paid off and I would have been debt free, yes. But the emotional payoff far outweighs the debt. Honey you did a great job, to all the people who say it won’t last, don’t listen, it’s your life and you only go around once. So go for it if you are so inclined, I’m 45 and listened to the naysayers, in 20 years I’ll be 65, thats scary, it took this long to finally get what I wanted and they are still telling me I made a mistake. My mistake was doing nothing, you have already accomplished something really big and only you can decide what works for you.
]]>By: Johnhttp://www.thesimpledollar.com/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212026
Wed, 26 Mar 2008 17:32:39 +0000http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/03/25/cosmetic-surgery-as-investment/#comment-212026Denise,

God love ya! It seems that you have a lot of advice already. Give yourself time to assimilate it all. If you give yourself time and watch all from a quiet space inside, you’ll know what to do.
One of the first books that I read on self immage psychology was by Dr. Maltz a plastic surgeon who noticed that after surgery which was “perfect” some patients lives were turned around dramatically, while others remained the same. The book is called, PSCHO-PSYBERNETICS.
Why not write Trent again when you have a happy solution?