If at one period in your young future before you settled in and accepted aging as the fate of all men, a great leader had come to you and offered you to follow him for greater glory, wealth and a many fascinating and fullfilling rewards, would you have gone with him? I'm mostly curious to learn of your reaction. I, personally, am anxious for a chance--to both prove and discover my worth and purpose.

Endymion

01-30-2006, 11:25 PM

i'd probably chicken out.

XYlophonetreeZ

01-30-2006, 11:27 PM

I'd assume such a person would be crazy.

HornyPope

01-30-2006, 11:29 PM

i'd probably chicken out.

A fair answer. But know that fear is never a deterent against the willing--if they wanted to come and recruit, they would. Only now you act as a cannon fodder for those who had volunteered their arms and loyaltiy 'fore you.

HornyPope

01-30-2006, 11:35 PM

I'd assume such a person would be crazy.

Crazy how?

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 12:10 AM

And since i'm on a roll i'll share my idea of a second oil painting I would have done if I was skilled with the brush (the first one was about the Spartans, not sure if anyone remembers). Anywhoo, I imagine the epic nameless Norse warrior standing all alone on that Stanford bridge in 1066 with his back turned to the painter. Directly behind him and for a territory of maybe 100 meters in radius there is nothing. Not a living soul. Only hints are that outside of this territory, behind him, is the Norse army arming and preparing itself against a surprise attack. But straight before him descends the Britton army that's fastly advancing to cross the bridge and take advantage of the mess among the Norse and chase them off their lands, lastly. Little attention they pay to the lonely warrior... But he stands on the bridge. Ready. Waiting. In this very moment he's superior to his fate--he dictates it. He knows his future. He is the only man in this world of paint that knows precisely what he wants at this moment.

XYlophonetreeZ

01-31-2006, 12:21 AM

Crazy how?

Delusional, cult-leader-crazy. Or maybe once he got me to follow him he'd lead me into a cave, where he'd buttfuck me and/or kill me and eat me.

But okay, okay, if I'm supposed to KNOW in advance that he really is a great leader and have seen what he's done for others, I'd still probably be quite wary. Would he just give you all that shit, or would you have to work for a guarantee that it would work out the way he told me?

Furthermore, how "fulfilling" would the rewards really be if you knew all along in the back of your mind that it was just because this dude came into your life? It would sort of be a miracle. In my experience, stuff is generally only fulfilling if I can take credit for it.

If none of that were an issue, i.e. if I had reason to believe he was legit AND somehow I knew I'd be fulfilled disregarding the fact that none of it would really be my doing, then yeah, I'd follow him. But what are the odds that I could ever know all that in advance?

So yeah, I'm cowardly when it comes to such things. But in the case of those sort of risks, cowardice can be quite acceptable. The ends tend to justify the means in the obsever's eyes in such cases. If someone follows an alleged "great leader" who actually DOES turn out great, then it's regarded in hindsight as a brave and wise decision. But if the guy's a loser or a nut, then people tend to think that the followers should have seen it coming. It's a double standard, but I'd probably err on the side of caution.

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 12:58 AM

You carry a negative connotation that is widespread among humans because of the harm such men have left behind them. Truth to be told, you can't make an omlette without breaking eggs and following this logic it's easy to judge and dig dirt on even the noblest of men. It's important to call things by their name and separate the good from the bad and take it for what really mattered instead of getting caught in the hysteria of trashing someone because you didn't quite agree with his methods. I was precisely looking for your type of your response for an oppertunity to address it. I don't, for one second, dispute your claim that these men are in fact "crazy". I'm fully convinced they are "insane" in that their views are alien to most and missunderstood. I only replied so you'll elaborate.

Also for the record, though i'm fascinated with militarisic and epic themes, as my (somwhat pretentious) language well suggests, i'm not in fact concentrating on a world-wide military conquest or anything. It could be a venture of any kind. Like your leader could simply recruit you for a shoe company or a heist, or some novel technological break-through or whatever wet capitalist dream you fancy.

Now...

But okay, okay, if I'm supposed to KNOW in advance that he really is a great leader and have seen what he's done for others,

You don't. But a good trait in leaders is their ability to seduce you and if you can't quite entrust in his judgment and follow him, he's probably not cut to be a great leder. Also, a major chunck of his success will depend on his following. A leader is only as good as the people who serve him.

Would he just give you all that shit, or would you have to work for a guarantee that it would work out the way he told me?

It's a joint effort and the farther he advances, so do you. If you capture great ressources, he will share it among everyone, in particular those who stood out. Alternatly, if this was an economic venture and you're company was evaluated at 10 billions following a successful launch, chances are you'd own stocks and stakes in the company and a fancy title to boot.

But what are the odds that I could ever know all that in advance? [...] But in the case of those sort of risks, cowardice can be quite acceptable.

You speak of odds and risks so answer me this. Is there anything in your life that you dream to accomplish (not askin you to name it though) ? If yes, are you convinced you can devise a plan where the odds are actually in your favour? Hah!

And if you dream of nothing in life... what then? Actually don't answer this one (unless you really want to- i love these covnersations personally). It's a completly different discussion.

wheelchairman

01-31-2006, 01:14 AM

Would I follow this leader? Depends, depends entirely on who they are. How quickly I come to like them. As you pointed out, how good they are at seducing people into their cause.

Most likely I would, anything to break the set course of life sounds interesting at the moment.

Isolated Fury

01-31-2006, 01:18 AM

I, personally, wouldn't follow him. Not to touch down on fate, but if I was meant to reach greater glory, wealth, and rewards, I was meant to aquire through my own means. I basically have the same view as XYlophonetreeZ. It's practically a pride issue. I have to be able to say that I earned it myself. I shouldn't need the help of some fantastic leader to discover these treasures.

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 01:21 AM

Most likely I would, anything to break the set course of life sounds interesting at the moment.

It's probably the most common sentiment for us all, and also the most dangerous reason to embark on the cause. Wouldn't you rather this campaign set the broken course of life instead?

/... and off to bed I go

wheelchairman

01-31-2006, 01:26 AM

It's probably the most common sentiment for us all, and also the most dangerous reason to embark on the cause. Wouldn't you rather this campaign set the broken course of life instead?

/... and off to bed I go
That would be the hope.

Xylo and Iso, the difference is not to be a competitor. If you must follow (and I don't like to think of myself as sheep either. But the thing is only one person can be a leader. And even by yourself you'll be following somebody anyways.)

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 01:28 AM

I can't believe I missed this one in Xylo's post, but why do you two think it's any less redeeming to acquire rewards and whatever under someone's leadership? It's not like he's pulling your strings.

/... and actually i just might stay few more minutes

Isolated Fury

01-31-2006, 01:34 AM

Xylo and Iso, the difference is not to be a competitor. If you must follow (and I don't like to think of myself as sheep either. But the thing is only one person can be a leader. And even by yourself you'll be following somebody anyways.)
Yes, but I was always raised on the view that I should earn everything I have and that I should have to work for it. If an opportunity is open to me, I will take it and work my way through it. But if that opportunity is just handed to me by another, I feel somewhat cheated - like I don't rightfully deserve it if I hadn't experienced the path myself.

It's not a matter of competition; it's just a matter of pride. Everyone in my family is the same way.

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 01:43 AM

I'm assuming you were in the process of replying to Per while I posted my repoly so i'll reiterate: there is nothing less rightfull and deserving in what you've accomplised under a leadership of someone (provided the leader hasn't done everything for you- but that's simply a matter of having your own head on the shoulders)

Isolated Fury

01-31-2006, 01:48 AM

But if I want to do something, I shouldn't have to wait for a leader to guide me along. If I want to do something, I will do it - leader or not. I won't sit around until a man comes up to me and says, "I can show your riches you can only dream of in the darkest of nights. All you have to do is follow me, and we will be glorified beyond the gods!"

A goal shouldn't have to come from someone else's idea. I set my own dreams in motion.

NOTE: I'm not saying you're wrong. This is just what I believe.

killer_queen

01-31-2006, 01:49 AM

I would go with him. My decisions about my future have always been the worst ones, I don't know what's good and what's bad for me. And I can't do anything on my own. I don't know why, I'm just raised like this. So, it would be nice if someone showed me how to make my life better.

arak0r

01-31-2006, 01:50 AM

depends on how much following id be doing.

HornyPope

01-31-2006, 02:08 AM

But if I want to do something, I shouldn't have to wait for a leader to guide me along. If I want to do something, I will do it - leader or not. I won't sit around until a man comes up to me and says, "I can show your riches you can only dream of in the darkest of nights. All you have to do is follow me, and we will be glorified beyond the gods!"

A goal shouldn't have to come from someone else's idea. I set my own dreams in motion.

I understand and I fully respect it. I think it essentialy translates to whether one is looking for an oppertunity or soemthing specific. In my case, all I hope is to make the best of the situation--and reap great rewards. To you, I understand, is pursuing your own little dreams that matters.

I'd say more but im really sleepy now...

Paint_It_Black

01-31-2006, 02:22 AM

I would go, without much hesitation. The chance to follow a great leader, just to be there, watch events unfold, even have the chance to play a role...that would be very hard to resist. I believe I would only decline if I had a moral objection with that leader or his/her cause.

Preocupado

01-31-2006, 06:50 AM

I wouldn't go. To follow a great leader at that particular point of a lifetime would piss me off about not being me the actual great leader.

0r4ng3

01-31-2006, 02:14 PM

I'd do it, but I'm too damn lazy. Also, it could seriously cut into my video game time.

Nineteen Seventy Nine

01-31-2006, 03:51 PM

I would do it but would lose the postition after a few hours.

TheUnholyNightbringer

01-31-2006, 03:53 PM

I'd almost certainly go. At that age the promise of wealth and power is a big, big thing to ignore. I like to say that I wouldn't do with him if I had an objection to him morally, but like everyone I'd have my price.

0r4ng3

01-31-2006, 03:55 PM

On second thought, I'd totally take the job. After learning all of his ancient and powerful secrets, I'd kill him, and take his place as leader.

o-kay, I've been watching Star Wars waaaay too much lately.

Paint_It_Black

01-31-2006, 03:56 PM

I like to say that I wouldn't do with him if I had an objection to him morally, but like everyone I'd have my price.

Lolz, TUNB is gay for pay.

0r4ng3

01-31-2006, 03:56 PM

Lolz, TUNB is gay for pay.
That's not true, he's just "funny" for money.

T-6005

01-31-2006, 03:57 PM

I don't know. Too many factors for me to just give an overwhelmingly yes or no answer. The situation would have too many different things wound into it.

BREAK

01-31-2006, 04:03 PM

Nah, I'd go out and make my own damn wealth and glory. I ain't going down in history as a coattail-rider.