"Hi, I'm Biff Fatwad. I like poisoning the environment, high short-term profits over long term sustainability, suppressing civil dissent, and gaining unfair advantages while simultaneously singing the praises of 'competition.'"

Muta:The way organizations like ALEC get stopped is but doing to them what was done to ACORN and the ACLU, they need to be demonized so politicians that want to get elected don't associate with them. But then there is the money...

Any demonization will just drive them underground or get them to change their name and then we're starting all over again. Having them out in the open makes them easier to deal with and manage. It's not like corporations who are trying to buy politicians and influence policy are going to go away and since they've got ALL the money, this is just the 1%'s way of spending it on themselves. You can only buy so many cars and summer homes, you know. They are acting in their own self interest and however evil that may seem to the rest of us, we all do the same albeit on a much less damaging level. Having ALEC on the field makes them a recognizable target. It's not ALEC that needs to be fought - they need to be WATCHED so we can see who they're buying and what they're trying to do. THEN, we go after the politicians that take their farking money and legislate accordingly.

yeah because the Kochs are just two brothers. the unions represent all the union workers in America.to really get a good idea of what the unions are up against you'd need to compare all the CEOs' and Corporations' money to the unions.and you'll never know that amount because it's secret.it's protected dark money that the politicians have made sure you'll never know who is paying them

Diogenes:Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know. And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

well it goes to show. America always was about me, me, me. and mine, mine, mine. we're just reaping the fruits of the seeds that were planted long ago. its Freedom, i guess.

Lawnchair:I've got to love the state legislators (South Dakota) who didn't want to pay for their own ALEC membership dues. So, they decided that the state would pay ALEC dues for all the legislators. Including the Democrats. Brilliant.

I live in the state, and this is the first I've heard about this. That is incredibly outrageous and needs to be reversed as soon as possible.

Alphax:I heard they were changing their rules so that they don't have to reveal their donors anymore.. they lost a lot of donors in recent months due to public pressure. So, don't reveal who the donors are anymore.

the Owners make the rules and everyone else follows them. except the Owners.

Alphax:I heard they were changing their rules so that they don't have to reveal their donors anymore.. they lost a lot of donors in recent months due to public pressure. So, don't reveal who the donors are anymore.

They're supposedly converting from a 501(c)3 tax exempt/non profit organization that has to reveal its donors that isn't supposed to lobby the government into a 501(c)4 organization. 501(c)4's are not tax exempt, but they don't have to disclose donors.

Diogenes:Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know. And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

the only thing wealth/capital respects is money and bullets. in that order. Reason and Logic do not apply.

actually a nationwide work stoppage and refusal to purchase from large corporations for a few days would send a strong message.good luck getting that organized. and yeah that could be considered money in the "money and bullets" equation.

but if enough people,got tired of their bullshiat and demanded a constitutional convention to fix this shiat and were willing to sacrifice for it ,it would happen.we need an amendment to ban anything but public financing of elections.also to instantly remove from office anyone caught taking money or giftsalso to demand instant runoff voting so we could break the duopoly.

yeah because the Kochs are just two brothers. the unions represent all the union workers in America.to really get a good idea of what the unions are up against you'd need to compare all the CEOs' and Corporations' money to the unions.and you'll never know that amount because it's secret.it's protected dark money that the politicians have made sure you'll never know who is paying them

Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

Everyone check out the Comments, and set it to show "Oldest First."Read the comments by journalist Mike Stark.

draypresct:COMALite J: I hold that any legislator or executive at any level who has signed or taken any oath, pledge, covenant, etc. other than the Constitutional Oath or Affirmation of Office, must disclaim it entirely for the duration of his or her term(s), or be deemed ineligible to hold office.

If this were the rule, I can see Bill Clinton running for office again. "Sorry, Hillary, but I have to disclaim my marriage vows while I'm in office."

Any oath or covenant or pledge that has anything to do with official actions in office. I should've clarified.

A Cave Geek:Cyclometh: I personally think that any legislator who swears a loyalty oath to a political organization is guilty of abrogation of their oath to the Constitution and the American people.

Oath of office should trump any outside 'oath' to do certain things once elected. Otherwise, there's the nasty little 'sedition' thing that could come back to bite you.

The sad thing is that those "oaths" they take are meaningless to them. Just mere technicalities which are needed to be performed in order to obtain personal gain. Once the "oath" no longer becomes beneficial they abandon it, and move on to the next opportunity to swear their allegience to.

Diogenes:Among the ALEC documents obtained by the Guardian: a draft loyalty oath for legislators who serve as the group's state chairs, declaring that "I will act with care and loyalty and put the interests of the organization first."

That's about all you need to know. And any legislator who signed that should be removed from their job.

Well, the only way they can be removed is to remove the dumb fu*cks that vote for them. You don't live down south do you?

You can put British Empire in every instance of "USA" in the article, and it would be true in 1890.

We currently have world political power of a mildly fragrant great-aunt. Sure, sometimes people listen to us, but they generally just invite us over because it's polite, and that's what they've always done.

Let's see - even if the graph is correct*, it looks like the groups on the left represent very large numbers of people over a wide swath of society (mainly middle class, but some upper & lower). These people have a wide range of interests. If all the groups on the left-hand side of the graph are aligned on an issue, doesn't that say something about the issue?

The Koch brothers represent themselves and their own interests.

Put that way, doesn't comparing the combined donations of millions of people v. two people seem a bit dishonest to you?** Would you agree that the Koch brothers have a great deal of access and control over legislation?

*As has been already pointed out in this thread, the Koch brothers operate through a number of subsidiary organizations. Counting only direct donations is disingenuous.**Just because the rest of the US has much more money combined than he ever will doesn't make Bill Gates poor.

MFK:karnal: Mentat: karnal: Yeah, yeah yeah......and the first moon landing was faked by Kubrick and Obama was secretly born in Africa. I've heard them all.

You do understand what Citizen's United was all about, right?

Seeks to reassert the traditional American values of limited government, freedom of enterprise, strong families, and national sovereignty.

oh fark you.

He's a troll. And based on his posts here, his purpose is to deflect from actually looking at how PACs and other groups use money to control our government. So put him on ignore and let's go on having a civilized conversation about how to actually fix this.