I like my RPGs to be more roleplay heavy than mechanics, slash and smash, as with most of the main games these days. We threw together a very simple Relic Knights concept by taking a dice based system and doing the following:

Knight: The game focus is supposedly on them going off to do their bit. At the start of the game they get some bonus resources to dispense as they see fit in building the party. Their character is built normally apart from three bonuses: Essence focus in their chosen flavour, an Expression for their group agreed with the GM, and general influence/reactions based on being a Knight.

Cypher: The REAL protagonist. Has their own agenda that we arranged with the GM; during play they get a lot of the "plot direction" via essence based intuition, which the Knight can ask about. It is up to the Cypher what they tell them/reveal. They have no active combat skills, but along with having they generate what many games refer to as Action Dice; they get to hand out an extra d6 you roll on top of your skill check to boost it. So they get to inspire or boost others, and activate the Knight's Expression. Cypher's run the show~

Support: Access to healing/repair/essence focus, this sort of thing. Have the ability to use their turn to grant actions to specific types (Black Diamond Corp Sergeant on Squads, Mechanics on Bikers/Chee, Archivist on Codifiers etc) as well as being the you'd be looking for to customise weapons, reattune magic artefacts, or salvage the gun from that sentry turret to attach to your:

Chee: Robot! Butchered a point buy system for the initial chassis be you humanoid or weapon platform or robot dog. Access to the network, able to interface with systems, and various immunities to things that affect squishies.

Squad: Warriors, soldiers, novitiates, bikers, etc. Good for fightan, get passive bonuses when acting with other people with the same Squad type and a skill bonuses suited to your type (driving/mechanics for bikers for example).

All of the "Classes" were fairly unrestricted, it was more bonuses being granted and we just let everyone pick what made sense for their characters.

Knight (Support): Black Diamond Viper: Expression was granting cover (a stealth trait from the system)Cypher: A tubby floating red panda with a cigar and tie. His ability was a redirectSupport: Biker Mechanic: Repair/customisationSquad: Biker: Melee/piloting with some mechanics. Had the same type as the MechanicSquad: Pirate: Bombs. Oh god bombs. and pistols. Mostly bombs.Squad: Black Diamond Sniper: Actually mostly person skills and some hacking, but had a big gun. Same type as KnightChee: M8 Tank: Originally a rifle using service droid bodyguard to the Knight.

Clearly the characters/backgrounds didn't really fit in with the faction divisions, but it was rather interesting. After describing the mission brief the Knight had received and how funds had been cleared for him to hire his third party resources (the racers and biker), it took only 20 minutes of game time of the constantly lying Cypher to convince the Knight to abandon his mission, file fraudulent expenses, and for the Chee to abandon the 3 hours of character design and a drawing she made for her anime inspired robo-maid, and have the mechanic transfer her consciousness into an M8 Chassis instead. At about the halfway mark, the Cypher started charging for the action boost dice.

I voted yes. I am not an RPGer and would not be playing it, however I think promoting the product line and expanding upon the potential player base of RK, would be a great idea!. I would like to add that I would love to see the RK game app developed first. Maybe it could even be adapted to support the potential RPG by having a player character sheet included for players to input their character data and tracking details for the RPG. Further more it would probably be even greater if the players could link their data to a GM via wifi. That would be a great app for any RPG I would imagine.

@TyraeKlouds: If by resource management you mean the game is dependent on you managing your esper as a resource then, yes. This game is much like the miniatures game. It requires players to use esper to give them their advantages and abilities in combat. But, esper has many other functions in and out of battle through out the game that makes it different than most.

Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Spending Esper as the primary mechanic of the game. Marvel came out with a terrific RP system a while back (Marvel Universe RPG) and it was strict resource management. Your characters get a pool of energy stones to spend each turn on your actions; the more focused you were on an action, the more energy stones you could use; or if an action was super difficult, you might have to use more energy. You'd only regenerate so many at the start of their next turn as well so, you'd have to be sure not to over reach. It's excellent.

Fireaspect wrote:

Frankly speaking, this discussion has received more views and replies than almost any fan made topic here in the Sodapop Relic Knights forums. Official topics by Sodapop Miniatures crew or moderators have received more but, are usually about business aspects or official rules so I don't count them. Reason I am mentioning this is because even with all this talk and interest in a RPG I'm worried that we maybe just wasting our time. Without any confirmation or even smiley from Sodapop / ND I'm not sure if they would be willing to hear us out. I know that John, Deke and all the others have a lot on their plates with cons, expansions and Kickstarters going so I know it is hard for them to log in here to check topics.

Where I am going with this? After being burnt by the other company I'm just curious as to where this thread is going. What is the next step here? Do we keep talking about this project and building a interest? Do we talk more about the diced system or where I am with that idea? Do we move on to the next part and start talking over how we would like to incorporate organized play? I'm just feeling lost as to what next?

I'm not sure I follow with the whole wasting time thing. Don't go burning yourself out, just have some fun playing around with some rules and your friends. I know you were burnt by that other company but, it sounds like you're on the right path here with talking to Deke and the other person you mentioned. I think the RK system was even built by another company all together (blackball games?) so, maybe you'll want to talk to them as well if you want to hop on the money train. Personally, I'm a huge advocate for open source and community driven projects so, to me, the next step is to absolutely keep talking about it! Drum up support for an RP and maybe Soda will notice and snatch up our ideas for it!

I'm not interested in a dice based RP for RK; I think it'd be great to have both systems use the same mechanics but, I'll talk it over if that's the route people want to go. I think as far as storyline goes, it'd be great to play it out through newsletter episodes incorporating organized play for the miniatures game as well. What all are you feeling lost on??

Wow, thank you for the support guys. When I wrote the last post I was just unsure of myself and was worried about history repeating its self. Don't worry about it though, I feel a lot better I think I was just having a off day and was a little stressed about other things in life. Now to comment and answer some questions posted by you:

@Spiku: Thank you for taking the time to type all that out. It gave me a good insight into how people look at the idea of using it as a RPG. Can I ask you a personal question though? The way that you described your game with classes, abilities and bonuses it sounds like you were using something close to a D20 system. Am I correct on that? I have a lot of questions about your system and am even more curious as to the logic in your choices. If you are willing to share more info on your game and strike a conversation feel free to reply that you are interested and I will start listing my questions.

@Mohobie: I really appreciate people posting replies like yours. It is a huge motivational boost reading that people / fans who aren't RPG players are looking forward to a RPG being made. I agree that a app would be a great addition to Relic Knights. Your idea about players incorporating their characters data is exactly what I had in mind when in the survey I placed the option about organized play. I am a fan of Organized Play and when executed correctly it can make a game that much better. Organized Play would allow players the chance to participate in sanctioned games, earn exp, and continue to watch their characters grow no matter what table they sit at. From a business stand point for Sodapop / Ninja Division could advertise new materials and use cons to help promote game play with 'special items' or bonuses for con GM / played games.

@TyraeKlouds: I figured that's what you meant, just wanted to go into more detail to make sure that we were both on the same page here. I will have to look into the Marvel RP sometime, it sounds like my kind of game. More of a DC guy but, willing to go to the dark side to try it out.

Thanks for the words of encouragement about keeping with it. I am feeling a lot more confident that this could happen with a new found boost in views and comments. Even comments like Mohobie's just stating that they would like to see it happen gives me the feeling that this is something the public / fans want and could really enjoy. But, not all comments should be happy cupcakes and xboxes. Even the comments of constructive criticism can prove just as important. I will continue to follow up with the plan and work on getting a final draft into the hands of people who can make it happen.

I know I mentioned the organized play above in Mohobie's reply but, with you mentioning a newsletter I agree that this would be the way to go. Either, a monthly newsletter like Privateer Press does for Warmachine / Hordes Organized Play or release modules much like Paizo does for Pathfinder Society Play. I love the idea of the newsletter but, writing out adventures for players is time extensive full time job with the brainstorming, writing, proofreading, testing, and putting together a final layout. By making monthly modular adventures for a few dollars or a year long online subscription for a much lower rate it would ensure a fan base, put more awesome 'story fluff' out there, and more physical product (modular books) on shelves with new artwork. The fee associated with modular books or online subscription would help to pay writers and artist for their work.

Hope to talk with you guys / girls again soon and hear your comments, concerns and opinions.

It was just going to be the Traveller system, but we used one that a friend was designing. Essentially a dice pool system where you have a Statistic and a Skill, both of which you can "level up" by spending experience to buy higher dice. Skills might end up as Stat:D10 Skill D12,D4 (where someone had bought one level above d12 in a skill). Everything over one is a positive, and your highest roll sets the base value of your skill check (rolling 2 on the d12 would be suplanted by a 4 on the d4, for example) and 1's counting as negatives. It sets the median to the average so you are less likely to have D20's "you rolled low despite this being your life profession" and purchasable Talents boost the final totals or allow rerolls of certain sized dice.

In this scenario, the Cypher bonus equated to a 5:6 chance for a bonus to the test, as well as a safety net against rolling low on your highest value by adding another dice range.

As I said, the "classes" are unrestricted in how you progress, but provide access to some traits not available to other archetypes. You can still invest all your Squad type characters skills in education and mechanics. They are a suite of bonuses on a semi point buy system that is influenced by rewarding the background of the character. At it's heart, this is a point buy system, but once you create your core character, the group then agree any additional skills and bonuses initially, and then you are free to progress how you want.

You gain Exp for completing objectives and succeeding in scenes, and you also gain focused Exp that can only be spent on the subset of skills they were used for. Sabotage the reactor:focused exp to be spent on mechanics/tech/explosives. It helps mitigate the limitation of point buy that everyone is on the same average of experience, despite the fact most people develop at different rates, or some people have a multitude of experience in different areas that do not limit their progression elsewhere.

Our group aren't particularly bothered by some people being better at things or that the playing field isn't level, it's about the characters~ once summed up by one of our regulars as:"Just because I live with the Drawback:Lyme's Disease doesn't mean I gain an additional Advantage to spend. I am just as good as the other scientists in my department, except I can't work as much and am in pain constantly"

I figured that's what you meant, just wanted to go into more detail to make sure that we were both on the same page here. I will have to look into the Marvel RP sometime, it sounds like my kind of game. More of a DC guy but, willing to go to the dark side to try it out.

Ah, no worries. I don't know anything about comics, just used it as a generic system. -D

Fireaspect wrote:

I know I mentioned the organized play above in Mohobie's reply but, with you mentioning a newsletter I agree that this would be the way to go. Either, a monthly newsletter like Privateer Press does for Warmachine / Hordes Organized Play or release modules much like Paizo does for Pathfinder Society Play. I love the idea of the newsletter but, writing out adventures for players is time extensive full time job with the brainstorming, writing, proofreading, testing, and putting together a final layout. By making monthly modular adventures for a few dollars or a year long online subscription for a much lower rate it would ensure a fan base, put more awesome 'story fluff' out there, and more physical product (modular books) on shelves with new artwork. The fee associated with modular books or online subscription would help to pay writers and artist for their work.

Well, there is the Tales of the Ninja news letter (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3428) that's looking for content. The previous edition wasn't developed all too well but, it'll evolve to become something great just like all this RP talk! I bet they'd put RP content in their magazine. I mentioned before about community driven projects and, I bet there are some really talented artists and writers here on the forums that'd be happy to put their work up!

@TyraeKlouds: Thanks for letting me know about the Tales of the Ninja Newsletter. I didn't even know about it till now. I will admit after downloading and reading it I am excited to see what I can do about submitting this discussion to them. Sadly, since I just found out about it I missed the October 10th deadline for submission. On the bright side that gives me plenty of time to write up the article, review, and submit the game to Sodapop / Ninja Division. If I get a reply from them quickly enough who knows, I may even be able to post the first module free in Tales of the Ninja Newsletter along with pregens to get people playing and talking about it. That way when it is released they may be more inclined to buy the RPG Book so they can create their own characters and adventures.

It is really exciting to think that if things move quickly and smoothly there maybe a demo kit for print out attached to the next newsletter. Only problem I can for see at this point is if there is no buzz generated about it. I tried posting on the Sodapop / Relic Knight Facebook pages about this project and discussion to get no replies or likes. I don't really know what much more I can do to get people talking about the idea of a RPG or here to the forum to talk about it. Any ideas? Are there any other sources out there that people often talk about Relic Knights? Last thing I can think of is to see if I can't get the guys at the Relic Knights pod cast to talk about it.

@TyraeKlouds: Yep, pretty much all finished as far as the diceless system is concerned. I am just trying now to find a way of making a Organized / Society Play system to adapt the exp system for it. I want to make it so that players rank slowly but, stay at the same power and cost range of the official Relic Knight characters. This way your character will be a legal comparative character to add to a normal Relic Knight game at the same time equal in power as everyone else at the tables.

@Varagon: Thanks for the suggestion of the podcast. I will have to look into advertising with them as well. Also, I will try to message you back later tonight with more info about writing a introduction review for Ninja Newsletter.

@TyraeKlouds: Yep, pretty much all finished as far as the diceless system is concerned. I am just trying now to find a way of making a Organized / Society Play system to adapt the exp system for it. I want to make it so that players rank slowly but, stay at the same power and cost range of the official Relic Knight characters. This way your character will be a legal comparative character to add to a normal Relic Knight game at the same time equal in power as everyone else at the tables.

Not having seen the system you built, I can only go from what dabbling I did when I thought about an RK RPG. Have you considered having Combat and Social encounters generate separate XP? That way someone wouldn't be able to dump all of their XP into Social and end up a weaker in a full RK game, and at the same time, would keep players from being able to min/max. Since there are no "Social" actions in a regular Relic Knights game, it would then really only require balancing combat ability to find a valid point cost.

@Varagon: Thanks for the suggestion of the podcast. I will have to look into advertising with them as well. Also, I will try to message you back later tonight with more info about writing a introduction review for Ninja Newsletter.

I'll be waiting.

_________________"Stupidity is a disease that can, and should be, cured." DNA Pioneer James Watson.

Sorry for disappearing guys / girls. I just got approved for a house a couple of days ago and have been spending every minute when not at work packing and moving before Nov. 1st. I realize that there are still a few unanswered questions and some are still waiting for messages from me. These will get answered in the next week after the 1st. Thank you for the patience on my answers and replies. For those interested I will be running the last few play test of the diceless system starting the 3rd. And the first sit down to place the dice system will be taking place about 4 weeks from now. Thank you and I will post again soon in the next couple of days.

@FireaspectHeeeey, I'd say congrats on the house but, no one deserves that kind of debt! Hope it's a cozy place to stay though so, good for you. -D

What platform are you going to be running the RP on? It's one of the things I'm keeping in mind while working on the Vassal Module...keeping it open for multiple players in case they want to use the platform to run an RP. There's also Roll20 which would be a great platform as well since it has built in card/hand mechanics...

Hello again. Moving right before the holidays and following it up with the actual holidays prevented me from coming here to post a update. Latest update is the this idea is nearly complete. My group and I had a successful sit down of the character creation system and even played a chapter of the story I wrote. A chapter in one of my campaigns is usually 3 sessions. One session heavy roleplaying that often results in a conflict (combat). Second session is combat and third is resolution (roleplaying results if win or lost) or a minor clean up combat. After that they move on to the next plot point of the overall story and repeat. But, that is just how I do things so there is a even balance of roleplaying and combat.

Anyway, we are currently working on the exp system and allowing characters to 'power-up' abilities, stats and skills. The hardest part of this is because I am trying to make it so that players can incorporate their characters into a game of Relic Knights and still remain balanced. Because, how cool would it be that your character in a regular or roleplay game get to fight along with or against the characters of Relic Knights. It would really help immerse the players into the world of Relic Knights. I feel that we are super close and should be wrapping everything up in the next month or two.

Thanks again, for your interest in this project and I hope to have something to link or present to you soon.

with void break we will can have more informations on cyphers and relic knight..... perhaps more fluff and possibilities to make a RPG.... but at present.... few information for a good open world....

This is only partially true.

I think have more than enough information available for creating the core gameplay mechanics using the skirmish game as a template.

We have plenty of information on the races inhabiting the galaxy (or, at least enough to provide minimum of 7 distinct racial options, with a few sub-types). And while only a small portion of locations have been discussed, Relic Knights is heavily influenced by anime (with many obvious references). Given that we have an entire galaxy to explore, there is no reason not to allow for players and GMs to tailor the setting of their game to suit the goals of their story. (I do agree, however, that it never hurts to have as much setting information as possible, especially for GMs that don't want to do the heavy lifting of building a setting for their game.)

I have not discussed with Fireaspect (the OP) about the system he designed yet, but I have a framework in mind for how I'd like to see a RK RPG be developed - something that is streamlined in mechanics and preserves RKs unique focus on planning and strategy over random chance.

In short, I don't see a reason not to start work on the mechanical aspects of an RPG, and continue to expand the fluff stuff and secondary rules after the core mechanics are polished - hopefully with ND's input and support!

I wrote a week or two about how I was going to update this. Truth is after the discussion hit a wall on the Relic Knights Facebook page I kind of forgot that I bumped this thread. Sorry about that. It's been about longer than a year that I touched the system that I made for this so it kind of got hidden in storage. Luckily, I'm going to start digging in there this week to pull out Christmas decorations so, I will be sure to keep a look out for my notebooks that go into all the details. After I have sometime to reread them and tweak the few things that my last play test group commented on, I will do another run through for this. The dates and spots available to join the play test will be posted here a few weeks before the introduction event.

Thank you for the messages that I have already received since bumping this thread. Many of you have asked that I share the details of the system and what I have so far. I would love to but, as mentioned before I have been horribly burned out of thousands (about $50k for those interested) of dollars doing this with another company and refuse to have it happen again. Members of the play test group will need to sign the NDA's (Mine and SPM / ND) that will be emailed to them before I share any of it. I'm sorry for this drawn out step but, I would rather have my ideas and those of SPM / ND protected (encase they do decide to use this system).

But, I do not want this whole post to be boring, cautionary babble so I will update a little. What I do remember of the last play test is that the group did enjoy the options to play and do what ever they wanted. What they said needed work was the progression system aka awarding / spending experience points and the slow pace of advancing. After explaining the reasoning, being that I wanted to incorporate organized play rules so that players could field their RPG characters on the table in a actual Relic Knights game they didn't think it was so bad. But, they suggested that I came up with a advancement system for casual and another for organized play. I remember that was the last hurdle I faced and they wanted to try again with those new rules.

Many people commented a while back that they were worried about the amount of crunch (rules) verse fluff (story) and the flow of the game. This was something that I was worried about as well because, as much as some people love rolling dice for social / actions there are a equal number of people that hate it, thinking it slows down the game or breaks the fantasy setting / flow. This is why I kept anything that would need to be contested a simple threshold, meet the threshold nothing happens, above you succeed, below is failed. I will hint that it plays a lot like the way it is written in the Relic Knights rule book where Esper management is a key factor of the game and can be manipulated beyond combat. Esper can be used to help enhance combat or any other situations (see Calamity Comes stories in Relic Knights Rule book for examples). Some use Esper outside combat to calm the room while others use it to spark their bodies with crimson esper like electricity to appear more intimidating or to quickly react to a situation that should have not been possible to pull off.

This game is about heroes and villains who are larger the life and should be played as such, meaning you should be playing to the limits of your imagination. Not like a realistic time piece game, the actions, combat and confrontations should be on the epic / high action anime levels that this game was inspired from.