A time capsule of the greatest financial mania in the history of mankind, told in real-time by regular folks and patriots. May future generations better understand the madness of crowds, and how power and money corrupt.

December 10, 2007

Easily the hardest hitting MSM piece on the corrupt and ill-fated Housing Gambler Bailout and mortgage mess that I've seen.

Congress needs to bite the hand that feeds it and launch formal investigations of the REIC, and failing that Andrew Cuomo needs to go after the investment houses, lenders and even Congressmen who committed and condoned mortgage fraud something fierce.

We knew all along fraud was everywhere (for god's sake they called them "Liar's Loans"!), and so did the likes of Angelo Mozilo and Hank Paulson, but they were too busy enriching themselves to stop, and now Americans (and the world) will pay a terrible price.

After it's all said and done folks, the Great Mortgage Scandal will be bigger than Watergate, ENRON, ABSCAM, Keating, Oil-for-Food and Iran/Contra combined. The corruption is throughout the REIC, and also extends into the halls of power, with REIC money blatantly corrupting the likes of Clinton, Dodd and Schumer. And the financial damage when all is said and done will be staggering.

Here's some highlights but read the whole piece. Sickening. Just sickening. Too bad the MSM and Congress were asleep at the wheel during the greatest financial scandal in human history.

The sole goal of the freeze is to prevent owners of mortgage-backed securities, many of them foreigners, from suing U.S. banks and forcing them to buy back worthless mortgage securities at face value - right now almost 10 times their market worth.

The ticking time bomb in the U.S. banking system is not resetting subprime mortgage rates. The real problem is the contractual ability of investors in mortgage bonds to require banks to buy back the loans at face value if there was fraud in the origination process.

And, to be sure, fraud is everywhere. It's in the loan application documents, and it's in the appraisals. There are e-mails and memos floating around showing that many people in banks, investment banks and appraisal companies - all the way up to senior management - knew about it.

The loans at issue dwarf the capital available at the largest U.S. banks combined, and investor lawsuits would raise stunning liability sufficient to cause even the largest U.S. banks to fail, resulting in massive taxpayer-funded bailouts of Fannie and Freddie, and even FDIC.

The problem isn't just subprime loans. It is the entire mortgage market.

Ultimately, the people in these secret Paulson meetings were probably less worried about saving the mortgage market than with saving themselves. Some might be looking at prison time.

As chief of Goldman Sachs, Paulson was involved, to degrees as yet unrevealed, in the mortgage securitization process during the halcyon days of mortgage fraud from 2004 to 2006.

If a mortgage bond investor sues Goldman Sachs to force the institution to buy back loans, could Paulson be forced to testify as to whether Goldman Sachs knew or had reason to know about fraud in the origination process of the loans it was bundling?

We are on the cusp of a mammoth financial crisis, and the Federal Reserve and the U.S. Treasury are trying to limit the liability of their banking friends under the guise of trying to help borrowers. At stake is nothing short of the continued existence of the U.S. banking system.

The real problem is the contractual ability of investors in mortgage bonds to require banks to buy back the loans at face value if there was fraud in the origination process.**************Well, first the mortgage bond holders have to prove they are entitled to the refund by showing they have the deed of trust in their name. I understand the chain of custody of who owns the Deed of Trust and therefor; who is entitled to the income, has been broken up by all of the bundling and re-selling of these mortgage backed CDO's and SIV's by the original lenders and the Fund managers.Messy.

I love how you mention democrats, like they were primarily responsible. After 30 years of conservative economic policies, their fanatical zeal for deregulation and their attitude of "make as much as you can, all that you can and worry about the ethics later", you blame the democrats.

When republicans took control of Congress in 94 democrats were relegated to the basement of the Capitol, locked out of meetings and ignored. But they're responsible.

Look, the ideology that got us here was CONSERVATISM but admitting that would mean tainting the libertarian ideology (conservatism's hedonistic cousin) and thus the belief system you and many of the savages on here ascribe to.

Keep believing the parties are the same. Vote republican, send money to "Dr. Paul". You'll sink deeper and the country will decline further.

Liberalism and a strong, powerful central government are the only way to run a modern, fair society.

And I don't care who took money from where. The ideology of conservatism has tainted everything, particularly the political process forcing most candidates to accept dirty money.

Fraud has been endemic and widespread in ALL bubbles, and this one is no exception. The basic problem is that economic intuition is not well developed. It's not something that is innate, and so people make the same mistakes over and over again.

General intelligence is not enough to guard against falling for the siren song of Bubble. Even Sir Isaac Newton - who we can say with 99.9999999% certainty was smarter than ANYONE who fell for the current bubble - lost something like 20,000 pounds on the South Seas Bubble (if anyone has more exact info about this - I'd welcome it - I'm just going from memory from having read the various books on speculative manieas a few years back). I think that sum would have bought you a very nice townhouse in the fashionable parts of London back then.

The only guard against bubbles forming is the painful memory of them. Note that neither a real estate nor a stock bubble has afflicted Japan in this cycle. All these attempts to minimize the pain of the bubble, or to try to deflect pain from a bubble burst (dotcom) by igniting a bubble elsewhere (real estate) make the inevitable bust that much larger.

My guess is that the credit/debt as money cycle is dangerously close to an inevitable "reset", although who really knows whether the Wall Street gangsters (in complete collusion with the politicians) can keep the top spinning for some years more, somehow.

What I do feel confident about, however, is that this reset will occur sometime in the next 20 or 30 years at the very outside, and it could very well start tomorrow. As it works its way through, look for the dawning of a new age of "blood and iron". We are going to rediscover that if the system becomes gamed to such an extent that "right" no longer makes "might", then "might makes right" will reappear as the dominant paradigm.

I have read several discussions of the latest bailout and I fail to see: 1. How this bailout would protect banks and Wall St. firms from CDO investor demands for buybacks on grounds of fraud.

2. How this bailout is going to be administered in some automatic fashion which eliminates the need for someone to go back and look at the details of the existing loan and its documentation. The LTV requirements alone would seem to absolutely require a new appraisal and the income requirements require new documentation to make any sense at all. You are right back to looking at loans one by one. And the whole claim is that no one has the staff time and resources to do that on the necessary scale.

Welcome to the kessel, hope you brought your warm cloths, its going to be a cold winter.

Mr & Mrs. J6P better wake up and wake up quickly. Your leaders have abandoned you, they have given refuge to the villains, sabateurs, treasonous and thiefs. They have left you surrounded, yet you still believe their propaganda. WAKE UP and prepare yourselfs!!

"Reporter: Mr. President, following up on Vladimir Putin for a moment, he said recently that next year, when he has to step down according to the constitution, as the president, he may become prime minister; in effect keeping power and dashing any hopes for a genuine democratic transition there ...

Columnist Sean Olender is an ignorant drama boy better suited to covering flower festivals and dog shows. His understanding of the subprime originators and their contractual obligations is just plain wrong.

1- Over 90% of subprime loans were originated by penniless mortgage brokers and correspondent lenders since gone out of business. With rare exceptions like Washington Mutual and their appraisalgate investigation the investment banks that provided the money to these originators are covered by safe harbor rules.

2- The CDOs that are blowing up are shell companies created by the investment houses to buy the mortgage backed securities and convert them to CDOs. The CDOs created by these shell companies were "rated" by the rating agencies, and absent proving a chain of fraud then there is no recourse against any entitiy with deep pockets.

Sure there will be some notable and well deserving exceptions but most of these crooks will get of scott fee.

And as an aside note that these mortgage plans are only voluntary. Bush/Paulson have no legal authority to order anyone to do anything against their will. This portion of the bailout will not cost the taxpayer a dime (other than Paulson's travel bill).

However, keep an eye out for FHA loan program changes that could put the taxpayer at risk.

The real problem is the contractual ability of investors in mortgage bonds to require banks to buy back the loans at face value if there was fraud in the origination process.**************Well, first the mortgage bond holders have to prove they are entitled to the refund by showing they have the deed of trust in their name. I understand the chain of custody of who owns the Deed of Trust and therefor; who is entitled to the income, has been broken up by all of the bundling and re-selling of these mortgage backed CDO's and SIV's by the original lenders and the Fund managers.Messy. --flyingmonkeywarrior============================

Sorry, but flyingmokeywarrior is wrong.

This issue at hand is securities fraud. If the buyers of the MBSs and CDOs prove in court that the sellers and packagers of these securities (US WALL STREET FIRMS & BANK "US Banks") committed fraud they can win JUDGEMENTS.

The Judgements become instant liabilities of the US Banks, as the banks are forced by judgements to repurchase at face value securities that have an estimated market value of 10 cents on the dollar or less.

Its time to get your money out of the US banks... It could be years before FDIC pays you back if ever!!!

We live in a country of 300 million people. What are the random chances that the very one person who was responsible for the creation and promotion of CDO's and SIV's would become Secretary of the US Treasury when CDO's and SIV's melted down

Exactly

Our government is corrupt. Our system has been corrupted. This is one big game being played by just a few people. You now know the secret.

Sorry, but flyingmokeywarrior is wrong._________________Thank-you for the correction. I am not a lawyer or an expert. Just an amature anthropologist coupled with a Financial and Political news obsession trying to keep up with the genesis here.

Additionally,if they (mortgage income investment owners)can not foreclose on the defaulted mortgages, for lack of proof of ownership of the Deed of Trust and the original note, would that in and of itself prove the fraud because the hedge funds can not prove they own the mortgage income?

Do you guys notice how the aggressive Bushiebots disappear on weekends? Another proof that these bastards work out of a desk in Washington, earning their dirty buck by surfing the blogs during weekdays to spread fascist propaganda at taxpayer expense. Watch how they all come back tomorrow. Keith should ban these bastards because they don't add anything positive to this blog.

Sure there will be some notable and well deserving exceptions but most of these crooks will get of scott fee.

The Wall Street bankers got conned by the bartender-turn-brokers. The Harvard and Yale MBA's got duped by the highschool dropouts and GED's losers. They packaged tons of manure from the mom & pop brokers. They sold off the highest tranches of the CDO's and kept the lower and middle tranches that nobody wanted. That is why they are insolvent now. Guys like Paulson and O'Neal don't care because they got their golden parachutes already. It will be the 9-5 chumps at Merrill and Goldman that get screwed.

listen all you lib fuck nuts- I am a conservative home builder in phx that voted for the shrub 2x- what all you whining nor-cal and seattle asswipes dont realize is that we "bushites" the honest ones anyway see the EXACT same things you do- were ALL Americans and were ALL going get to take a bite of this shit sammy whether you call yourself a lib or conservativeand if you think it would have made a tinkers damn if gore or kerry were currently in office presiding over this credit/housing thing you are deranged! the iraq thing may have been different but NOT the housing thing. we who are true conservatives are as disgusted with the fiscal fuckup as any American--- heres the dealwe can either come together to try and fix it or we can have a new civil war--who do you lib dumbshits think has all he guns?

Paulson is as crooked as my slong.That dude should be serving meals to prisoners.You guys nailed the whole scheme as the sheeple still bend over for bush.How do we get ron paul elected? I like the dude and want to be his running mate in 2008.

The Wall Street bankers got conned by the bartender-turn-brokers. The Harvard and Yale MBA's got duped by the highschool dropouts and GED's losers. They packaged tons of manure from the mom & pop brokers. They sold off the highest tranches of the CDO's and kept the lower and middle tranches that nobody wanted. That is why they are insolvent now. Guys like Paulson and O'Neal don't care because they got their golden parachutes already. It will be the 9-5 chumps at Merrill and Goldman that get screwed.

And yet, Wall Street is rewarding themselves with record bonuses despite the record losses investors suffered this year. Who got duped again???

The article said; "The goal of the freeze may be to delay bond investors from suing by putting off the big foreclosure wave for several years. But it may also be to stop bond investors from suing. If the investors agreed to loan modifications with the "real" wage and asset information from refinancing borrowers, mortgage originators and bundlers would have an excuse once the foreclosure occurred. They could say, "Fraud? What fraud?! You knew the borrower's real income and asset information later when he refinanced!"

in other words, by having the homeowner refinance, and THIS TIME STATE THE TRUTH ON THE APPLICATION, the the bondholder cannot sue for fraud when the homeowner does foreclose three months later.

I thought a stated income loan was called a stated income loan, except everybody in the mortgage industry referred to them as; "LIAR LOAN."

So yes, that's right pension fund investor, and foreign investor, if you are reading this, those bonds you were buying were based on repackaged "LIAR LOANS"

I can see it now; Paulson and his cronies sitting around the table saying; "all we have to do is get the homeowner to come clean with actual income, refinance the loan and we are off the hook. We'll call it "newhope" for the homeowners so that way we can have the government pay for all the training and hiring of the calltakers. it's perfect."

Just remember, bond/SIV/CDO holder, that while some banks were realizing that these were turning toxic, they were still selling them, whilst at the same time betting against them.

And just to recap, everybody in the industry knew they were called LIAR LOANS. So think back to when that banker looked you in the eye, smiled and sold you that bond, he knew it was based on a liar loan. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy doesn't it?

There is plenty of blame to go around for this crisis but the most blame can be squarely put on the Left Wing activists for the poor.

Why them?

Because they are the one's who, year after year after year after year, screamed at us that banks were discriminating against poor minorities with respect to their 1) getting mortgages and 2) the interest rates given to them if they actually got one.

I remember reading, year after year after year after year, annual studies put out by this or that Left Wing Activist group (like Acorn and it's ilk) or some left-wing infected govt. agency, that poor minorities were getting the shaft when getting mortgages.

So, what did banks finally do to get the Left Wing harpies off their backs and their good names out of the press? Well, they created exotic loans that would allow these folks to qualify for one! In a rising market, these poor minorities could refinance and live a great life, so it went on and on and on until, of course, the market turned. A consequence of this idiocy was that anyone could get these loans...and this is where the banks' culpability comes in: they figured, "what the hell, i've got a good thing going and i can make a lot of money selling this crap to everyone else too". So they did.

And now what do we see? We see the likes of Acorn and Jesse Jackson hoop and hollar about how we have to bail out the folks they encouraged to take out loans. I am sure that when the onion is peeled back, we will find Acorn and the Left embedded with the banks and mortgage lenders. I'd like to see the letters/email they sent to the banks (I'm sure they did) in the 2000 to 2005 timeframe. I am sure we will find much correspondence between these leftie groups and the management of Citi, CFC, WaMu, BoA, etc. encouraging them to create loans that would enable poor people to get their mortgages with the hope that as time went on, raises and rising incomes would be enough to meet the higher payments when resets hit. Or, perhaps these left wing nut jobs just didn't understand any of the financial aspects of these mortgages so were just unaware...that wouldn't surprise since most people on the Left know little about how interest calculations really work. They are too busy attending therapy sessions, talking about their feelings and self-esteem, and figuring out how to destory America...which, with this fiasco, they probably will do.

What would be interesting is to see the political affiliations of those who got these subprime/Alt-A/Option ARM loans: I bet 80% would describe themselves as Democrats...and the other 20% would be Republicans who were influenced by them. And I bet the percentage of minorities who got them is much higher than their incidence in the general population.

I'm not a Republican - there is plenty of blame to give to them too (Greenspan, Bush, Paulson, etc.), but the real crime committed here is by dumb Democrats who thought they could own a home and the groups like Acorn that berated banks because of the "discriminatory lending practices" to poor minorities.

It is time for the Democrat party to disband. It has been a disaster for America since it's founding by Andrew Jackson. It committed genocide against the Indians, kept blacks enslaved in the South well after the North abolished the peculiar institution, tore this country in two by starting the Civil War, instituted Jim Crow laws for 100 years after the end of that war, gave birth to the KKK (ah Senator "KKK" Byrd, anyone?), trashed our Constitution by their "liberal" interpretations of it, turned America into a nanny state, gave rise to every "ism" under the sun which created "identity politics" which is ripping our country apart, and now has brought our financial system to the brink of collapse all because they wanted a couple million poor minorities to get mortgages when they simply couldn't afford them.

Thanks a lot you Dems. Keep up the good work! Some day you'll finally get us to the Promised Land...whatever and wherever that is in your wacky world!

To follow-up to my previous posting about ACORN being one of those groups responsible for the mess we're in, the head of the group, Mike Shea, is of course trying to cover his own ass. Here's what this loser had to say about Mario Cuomo investigating sub-prime loans:

"Mike Shea, executive director of Acorn Housing, a national non-profit housing provider, said additional investigations by law enforcement agencies might serve as a deterrent in the future.

“We depend on having a sheriff in town to protect us from bad guys and we have to prevent this from happening in the future. How do you do that? If cracking down on the bad guys through law enforcement does that, then that’s where we have to get,” he said"

This is laughable. Cuomo should also be including him and Acorn in his investigation!

It appears the US is following its once arch nemisis down the same path that leads the fiat currency to fail with the resulting decline and economic ruin. At least the USSR went broke attempting to provide its people with military protection. The US is going broke buying plasma TV's and cheap Walmart garbage made in China, as well as anexing the peons of Mexico to mow the yard.

At least the Mexicans can look forward to returning home to improve their lives yet again when the US joins their third world economic universe.

6:16...yes, a nice strong central g'ment is indeed the way to go...how I swoon for the days of Franco, Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, Hitler...now THEY knew how to do strong central g'ment! Those were the days, huh.

I betcha there will be new commissions made on the rework of these loans--especially if the rework ends with them being on Fannies, Freddies etc. books. Angelo will get his cake and eat it too.---Just thinking out loud how the American system works

There is plenty of blame to go around for this crisis but the most blame can be squarely put on the Left Wing activists for the poor.

The do-gooders are destroying America and what made America great - free society and free markets. They have to interfere with every aspect of our lives thinking they know the answers and can solve everything. Well, they've done it again. The housing crash is just one example of the giant turd that is central planning.

Pavlov's House said...They can suspend the election due to economic events!!December 09, 2007 7:48 PM

Oh my gosh!! I actually had a dream that this is what was going to take place next year... No joke! It scared the crap out of me... I have literally been meditating and praying against it! For all of our SAKE! This can NOT take place no matter what...

From bitterrenter:Liberalism and a strong, powerful central government are the only way to run a modern, fair society.

The utter laziness of mind that you demonstrate by making a statement such as this is an integral part of the problems we now face as a whole. You were lucky to be born in this country; at least put down the bong long enough to think before you talk, and to understand just where your way of life came from.

We became the greatest nation in the history of human civilization based on the fundamental principles of the Constitution - before it was perverted to all hell by politicians from BOTH parties.

"FREEDOM" is the key. A free market with with minimal government and simple protections against the extremes (monopoly, e.g.), works wonderfully (is it really any surprise?). That is basically what the Constitution outlined and in fact mandated, and it is this idea that rocketed us into history.

The fundamental concepts of a free market and the constitutional republic that we are talking about come MUCH closer to the economic bias of the "right" than the "left". You've chosen to focus your small brain on the flood of contemporary right wing criminals, homosexual senators, and religious assholes that have destroyed the republican party, and you've missed the real point. What is happening in this country today is the result of MANY years of greedy, selfish, lazy motherfuckers - from top to bottom and left to right - lying, stealing, and borrowing their way into an abyss.

Not only do government interventions such as what we're seeing now cause this shit to get even worse, they in fact are also what created it. In a real free market, these things never have a chance to build to this level. In a free market, interest rates never would have sunk to the insanely low levels they did to begin with. In a free market, solvency is FORCED. In a free market, August 17, 2007 would have marked a financial holocaust in this country that would have rooted out all the shitbag criminals and cleansed our nation in a span of months, instead of the decades that we now face - where the bankers survive and the liquidation of malinvestment will be paid by you and I.

Yes, the republicans are a lost cause now, but this is in large part due to their recent failure to uphold their core ideals. But you're sadly misguided to believe that the democrats' economic policies would have done anything other than make this much worse. That party consists of nothing BUT government intervention.

Freedom = liberty = libertarian.

"Liberal" is a term usurped by socialists to brainwash people like you, and has nothing to do with freedom. Large government that confiscates wealth from the productive and gives it to the unproductive is far from a "liberal".

This country has been given an incredible gift in Ron Paul. At this point in our history, he is quite literally the only chance this nation has of saving itself. Ironically, he is marginalized. I suppose there is a sort of beautiful irony that the final nails in the American coffin will be hammered in by the voters themselves.

"FREEDOM" is the key. A free market with with minimal government and simple protections against the extremes (monopoly, e.g.), works wonderfully (is it really any surprise?). That is basically what the Constitution outlined and in fact mandated, and it is this idea that rocketed us into history.

The fundamental concepts of a free market and the constitutional republic that we are talking about come MUCH closer to the economic bias of the "right" than the "left". You've chosen to focus your small brain on the flood of contemporary right wing criminals, homosexual senators, and religious assholes that have destroyed the republican party, and you've missed the real point. What is happening in this country today is the result of MANY years of greedy, selfish, lazy motherfuckers - from top to bottom and left to right - lying, stealing, and borrowing their way into an abyss.================================Youre absolutely brain dead. The United States was never founded on Free Markets, or free trade! That is complete bullshit.

The USA was based on the American System of Political Economy. That is 1. Protectionism2. Internal improvementsAnd a strong federal government that controls it's own credit /debt.

Ron Paul is some kind of a joke. Here you have a libertarian nut case who is exploiting peoples fear and at the same time offers no solution because he doesnt understand how a functioning healthy economy should run.

Read the preamble to the constitution. It might give you some insight into what the United States was intended to be.

Free markets = the British system, not the United States.

And in case you forgot we fought 3 wars with the British over free trade and slavery.The American RevolutionThe War of 1812The Civil War

You need to get a dictionary ASAP. You obviously have no clue what the word liberal means.

As for whomever mentioned ACORN as being at the root of all this, you are right for the most part. It was ACORN and Jesse Jackson types who were complaining about those big bad old racist banks not lending minorities any money.

Well the banks got scared and started lending money to anyone with a pulse in order not to get branded as R-A-C-I-S-T-S-. Jesse's peeps got the $500K loan at 1% on an income of $25K with a 500 fico score. 5 years later here we are.

And now ACORN and Jesse are complaining that the banks did just what they demanded.

It is really amazing how this has all been overlooked by the media. But then again what reporter in his right mind would touch this story? After all that would automatically brand him a R-A-C-I-S-T.

Same for Wall Street. Time for these folks to get real jobs, creating real products. In other words, it's time to actually starting doing some real work.

December 10, 2007 2:13 PM

--

You people are fucking lunatics. Who do you think finances companies that create "real jobs"? Where do you think Intel or Google or Yahoo or GM or US Steel gets or got money from when they were starting out? Or do you think auto plants and factories just magically appear one day out of the blue and are free?

Anonymous said... >> The U.S. banking system needs to die. They are totally corrupt.

Same for Wall Street. Time for these folks to get real jobs, creating real products. In other words, it's time to actually starting doing some real work.-----------------------------Yes, they can start by going to prison and do some real work by making license plates!

You people are fucking lunatics. Who do you think finances companies that create "real jobs"? Where do you think Intel or Google or Yahoo or GM or US Steel gets or got money from when they were starting out? Or do you think auto plants and factories just magically appear one day out of the blue and are free?

Get a clue you imbeciles.

December 10, 2007 3:08 PM

=================================Look, none of these companies could function without the "public" infrastructure.

We sure as hell dont need private bankers on wall street in order to run a industrial economy. They are parasites and you have got our history all wrong.

Every great US President waged mortal battles against Wall Street and their masters in the City of London. We were not consituted as an extension of British free trade.

The most disgusting thing is that the MSM is actually lauding the saavy of Goldman Sachs to make money on the back of products they KNEW were crap. Incredibly, even the NY times is on this. The NY Times finally started to shed a bit of light on this obvious conflict but I had to write them a letter:

I applaud the Times for finally bringing to the light of day (article “Wary of Risk, Bankers Sold Shaky Debt”) Wallstreet’s complicity in this ongoing subprime debt debacle. By shorting the very products that they were pushing on investors (subprime RMBS), investment banks were making money on both ends. This is completely analogous to me selling you a car that I knew to have faulty breaks while at the same time taking out an insurance policy on you betting that would die in a car crash. Clearly, everyone would agree that this transaction would be morally reprehensible as well as illegal. So why is this similar behavior on the part of investment banks not considered insider trading and, therefore, illegal? Clearly, they knew something that the rating agencies and investors who bought their paper did not. Yet I recall that your paper only a couple weeks ago published an article by the same reporters lauding Goldman Sachs for their “genius” at avoiding losses on subprime RMBS while their competitors were taken to the cleaners. At least their competitors ostensibly believed in the quality of the product they were peddling. Or more likely, they were just too greedy to look up and see the brick wall at the end of the tunnel.

Nations need Wall Street and the City of London to finance economic progress? Read this. Sovereign nations can establish their own banking system without international speculators involvement.

Seven South American nations yesterday took the historic step of founding the Bank of the South, a regional bank representing the sovereign governments of the area, with a mandate to finance the integrated, economic and social development of all the countries of the Union of South American Nations (UNASUR). In a ceremony in Buenos Aires. The Presidents of Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Ecuador, Paraguay and Venezuela, and a cabinet minister from Uruguay, were to sign the founding document establishing the bank late this afternoon.

"...we who are true conservatives are as disgusted with the fiscal fuckup as any American--- heres the dealwe can either come together to try and fix it or we can have a new civil war--who do you lib dumbshits think has all the guns?"

Well, I am a "lib dumbshit" as you so elegantly put it. I believe in all kinds of things - rule of law, the constitution, bill of rights, all kinds of liberal, commie, pinko things.

You voted for Bush TWICE. This fuck-up is YOUR. PERSONAL. FUCKING. FAULT.

You and everyone who thought like you, voted like you, acted like you, brought this down on us all.

Come together with you to fix the problem? You are the fucking problem.

Civil War? Bring it on, you and all of your friends.

Gun owner? I am sure you are. But you must be a coward, otherwise you would be slinging that rifle in the Middle East, not writing about it from home.

>> You people are fucking lunatics. Who do you think finances companies that create "real jobs"? Where do you think Intel or Google or Yahoo or GM or US Steel gets or got money from when they were starting out? Or do you think auto plants and factories just magically appear one day out of the blue and are free? Get a clue you imbeciles.

Ever hear of "boot-strapping", you dolt?!? I started my own company, and didn't have to borrow from anyone to do it - just like countless other entrepreneurs. I need Wall Street like I need another f'n in my head. Banks and Wall Street are what enabled this financial fiasco!

>> You people are fucking lunatics. Who do you think finances companies that create "real jobs"? Where do you think Intel or Google or Yahoo or GM or US Steel gets or got money from when they were starting out? Or do you think auto plants and factories just magically appear one day out of the blue and are free? Get a clue you imbeciles.

Ever hear of "boot-strapping", you dolt?!? I started my own company, and didn't have to borrow from anyone to do it - just like countless other entrepreneurs. I need Wall Street like I need another f'n in my head. Banks and Wall Street are what enabled this financial fiasco!

The real problem here is the Americano nation mostly comprises of unethical, immoral, greedy, cheating S.O.B whom would sell his/her mother for a dollar at a flea market. Until this nation exterminate these cancer-ridden S.O.B, there is just no future for the Americano. I say exterminate these S.O.B with extreme prejudice. Let's cancel their policy to the utmost way of cancellation !

bitter renter keeps his title of "STUPIDTEST MAN ALIVE" for yet another week.

Congrats.

PS: Aren't you Democrat swine supposed to be the party of tolerance? Not sounding very tolerant these days.

PPS: If you think we didn't go socialist you are even stpudier than stupid. We are an inch away from being communist and shitheads like you still think the lazy and stupid don't get enough from the government. Fuck you and yo' momma.

This guy wants to be friends; If we were to choose to come together and sing Kumbaya, this guy is really offering the peace pipe;

""listen all you lib fuck nuts-

""what all you whining nor-cal and seattle asswipes dont realize""

""were (sic) ALL Americans and were (sic) ALL going get to take a bite of this shit sammy whether you call yourself a lib or conservative and if you think it would have made a tinkers damn if gore or kerry were currently in office presiding over this credit/housing thing you are deranged! the iraq thing may have been different but NOT the housing thing""

""we can either come together to try and fix it or we can have a new civil war--who do you lib dumbshits think has all he guns?""

"lib fuck nuts" "lib dumbshits" Thats the way to get on anyones good side, attaboy cowboy!!

P.S. how are things, drivin around in your 8 mpg pickup, not getting any work right now? And since you don't want to employ illegals any more, whats the going rate for a white guy to do stucco or block fence or landscaping?

How in the world did you ever pass the required tests to become an officer in our military? if you think shrub had SQUAT to do with the current housing crisis you are not smart enough to be wearing bars! you want to pin this mess on 1 man you need to take a good hard look at greenspan- without him NONE of this would have been possible-and shrub had ZERO to do with his appointment and the exec branch has ZERO power over the fed!as far as your "bring it on" comment goes gimme a break - im not advocating civil war im making the point that if liberals like you want to push the point beyond rhetoric you will absolutely positively end up on the losing side its not even debatable- why in the world do you think gun control has been a liberal political issue for so long? btw thankyou for your service.

BTW Lt. if you really are - better hope you are retired- if you are currently active duty you can get yourself into some deep shit for going on a political rant against your commander in chief on a PUBLIC forum AND signing you name-

If you're like most conservatives you've taken advantage of every government program there is, have tried your best to avoid paying for the services you use by cheating on your taxes and complained bitterly that you don't geet more services from the government for free. People like you think a country, a society of humans, runs on AIR. You callously dismiss all of the acheivements and advances made possible by people working under a strong central government that collects from us ALL in order to build a culture.

People like you are SAVAGES, pure and simple. But when you find yourselves in need you run to the government for help and think we should all help bail you out.

?lib fuck nuts" "lib dumbshits"Thats the way to get on anyones good side, attaboy cowboy!!

P.S. how are things, drivin around in your 8 mpg pickup, not getting any work right now? And since you don't want to employ illegals any more, whats the going rate for a white guy to do stucco or block fence or landscaping?"

i could give a shit less about getting on someones(no need for sic smart ass) "good side" just stating the obvious- like it or not we ARE all in this togetherand it IS predominantly the liberals on this blog that post uninformed EMOTIONAL drival- just thought ya'all (no sic needed :-)))would be able to relate if i followed suit but from the conservative perspective- dont like it much do ya "cowboy"btw the truck gets about 13 in the city and i just pass on the price increase of labor to assholes like you! does not impact me AT ALL:-))

Bitter- you are describing liberals almost to a "T" no conservative i know or have ever known believes in what you have written or acts as you describe- interesting that this place is populated primarily by left of center types read NON-HOMEOWNERS- im a "savage"? i dont see self described conservatives wishing all the evil things being said here i think any objective analysis of the posts would find that its you left of center types that are the true savages for wishing ill on people you have no personal knowledge of- another thing you need to remember is not everyone in this country bot a home in last 3 years- you all act like EVERY homeowner in America is a dumbass- you know nothing.

ok folks i have an admission- i read a book the other day "Empire" by Orson Scott Card- its a paper back and the working thesis is that our country has become so politically polarized that we fall into a modern day civil war but instead of north v. south its red state v. blue state and unfortunately you people have proved to me that the thesis if not probabable is certainly possible- there is WAY too much hate in our country - Americans today have totally opposite views on just about EVERYTHING and the deliniation point of those views seems to trend with political philosophy and to a lesser extent party affiliation- i am a conservative but im NOT a republican - i hate no-one but find it facinating how easy it is to get bloggers-fellow Americans all to "hate" me based on a political stance - think about it folks we really are in this together if we could put aside our political vitriol and quit wasting valuable time and energy trying to convince the other side we are correct we might actually solve some of the very real very scary problems our nation faces - i apologize for my informal sociological test but it was interesting to see how very easy it was to get you all to confirm Cards' paradigm - kinda scary actually!

It's funny how the housing/banking/bubble meltdown always turns into a political argument. So now the Rush Limbaugh dittohead blame-a-liberal Bushbots are going to spin this whole thing as the fault of the "Left Wing activists for the poor."

Here is the latest spin being put out there;

""most blame can be squarely put on the Left Wing activists for the poor.

Why them?

Because they are the one's who, year after year after year after year, screamed at us that banks were discriminating against poor minorities with respect to their 1) getting mortgages and 2) the interest rates given to them if they actually got one. ""

Nice try, but if that's how you play, let me tell you it's called 'divide and conquer' So now you can have all the out of work housebuilders pitted against the "minorities," while the guy who made the toxic bond and sold it gets to walk away with the swag.

Bitter renter, you are a complete moron. Go look at my previous post re: your Democrat Party and all the horrific things it has brought on this country.

You left wing radicals are so out of control and so full of hypocrisy it makes me SICK. You are nothing but control freaks who seek to rule over others. That is why you clamor for centralized govt. You are either a tyrant at heart or an insecure personality that needs strong and all powerful direction from some faceless bureaucracy to relieve your anxiety about yourself.

Let me take a few minutes to reveal to yourself and others here your absolute hypocrisy and stupidity.

1) You Libs say you champion the Bill of Rights...right. Only when it suits your needs. Take for example the freedom of speech. You're all for it until someone says something that's different from what you believe...just look at our colleges today: cesspools of speech codes created by liberals for the sole purpose of stifling speech you don't like. That way you can CONTROL peoples' thoughts. Your ilk also shouts down and prevents people with opposing viewpoints to speak in collegiate public forums. And your ilk has routinely stolen student newspapers when you don't like something they are saying. This has happened at colleges all over America, from dirt bag public institutions to the Ivy Leagues. Just goes to show that you scum are everywhere. In addition, you seek to define hate speech; of course, it's all speech that you don't agree with. I wonder if we could dismantle the women's studies, gay, and minority programs in colleges that have as their common theme, hatred of males and white people...blaming them for all the bad things in the world. To me, that's hate speech. Let me know when you'll be leading the charge to remove these programs from our country's institutes of higher learning.

2) Separation of church and state; actually, no such thing exists in the BoR; what it says is that govt. "will make no law establishing a religion", meaning a national religion. Sure you and I believe that govt. really should not establish a national religion but you know what, I never hear your ilk say anything about the second part of that clause that says "or prohibit the free exercise thereof"...I know, you have ADD and couldn't get through that short phrase to find out everything the BoR says about religion. And by the way, when will we start categorizing your blind faith in the morality of atomic physics as a religion (just so you know, we're working on that one...and then you'll see what you've done to folks who believe in a supreme being -- I'm not necessarily speaking of myself here).

3) You extol freedom of the press yet you clamor for restrictions on political speech through unconstitutional laws such as McCain-Feingold. Or through legislation to force conservative radio stations to give "equal time" to opposing viewpoints when you do not argue the same for your liberal MSM (NYT, PBS, CBS, WaPost, Boston Globe, SF Chron, MSNBC, LA Times, ABC, NBC, etc.). You make up all sorts of excuses for this clear hypocrisy such as 'there are limited airwaves', even though there are tons of radio stations, satellite radio, and 500 TV stations. You damn hypocrite.

4) You have no understanding of the 2nd Amendment. Our country has always had a personal right to keep and bear arms since the BoR and even before. That is a fact. Indisputable. But today, the Control Freaks like yourself seek to convince us that this just isn't so. You fail to understand that this personal right is there to give citizens a final recourse against a tyrannical govt. that would seek to destroy "the security of a free State", as the amendment says. Indeed, it is because of central govt. fanatics like yourself that this amendment was added. We know this and we will fight you to the bitter end on this one.

5) You say you want to protect the poor, yet your activist SCOTUS justices ruled that Americans really don't own their property; that govt. can take it away not for a public use but for a derivative public benefit, meaning they can take it from one private owner and give it to another for any reason they want. Thanks to you and your ilk, you have gutted the "takings" clause and screwed over the people most vulnerable to capricious govt. -- the poor.

6) You think that the interstate commerce clause and "federal supremecy" article allows the federal govt. to do whatever it wants and over-rule the states on anything. WRONG. If that were the case, the Constitution would have been a lot shorter than it is. All it would say is this: "This Federal government has all the power and the States have none. It can do whatever it wants and the States can't do anything about it". Fortunately, the framers weren't as stupid as you; they knew the dangers of strong centralized govt., having recently fought a revolution to overthrow one. By the way, the supremecy clause is qualified by the statement that the federal judiciary, not the legislative or executive branches, will be the final arbiter of the law and that states must abide by it. That doesn't mean that the SCOTUS will always rule in favor of the Feds. They can, and certainly have in the past, make rulings that put the States in the driver's seat and the Fed in the passenger seat.

7) You do not understand the concept of the 10th Amendment of the BoR, which reserves powers to the States that were not explicity granted to the Feds in the Constitution. Again, the framers did not trust this new centralized power they were creating, and rightly so if you look at the leviathan it has become. Indeed, the awesome power this govt. now has makes the 2nd Amendment much more relevant and important today than 200+ years ago.

I could go on shredding you to pieces here but hopefully you have broken down in tears and are ready to find salvation in your new and proper understanding of the Constitution you were so generously given by a bunch of dead white guys, who'd probably want to string you up for being the lousy American citizen you are, you moron.

And finally, let's start talking about Acorn, Jesse, and the rest of the liberal groups that were in bed with the banks to create exotic loans so their poor constituents could buy homes they actually couldn't afford. Just another in a long line of idiocy the Dems and Libs have perpetrated on our country since the founding of the party by Andrew Jackson -- that Indian exterminator who is the grandfather of your odius political party. Again, go read my previous post to see what havoc the Dems have wrecked on America (I won't get into the Dem's responsiblity for the Cambodian Killing Fields...).

How in the world did you ever pass the required tests to become an officer in our military? if you think shrub had SQUAT to do with the current housing crisis you are not smart enough to be wearing bars! **********************************

Um, if you connect the dots, sir, you will find a direct connection from the 9/11 GOP attacks on America, WHICH CAUSED the US economy to STOP in its tracks. It was so bad, that all levels of economic booster engines were ORDERED into high gear - including methods (either legal or illegal)to keep the job market growing and multi-billion dollar military bombing raids and death camps and illegal profiteering contracts, etc, etc. It was a PNAC/GOP PLAN, and it did work...for a while. Now comes the true shock and awe campaign! (Remember when Cheney said the Iraq invasion would last about 8 to 15 weeks?) We've been shistered by our own elected officials who took the oath and LIED. What we have been, what we are and what we will be enjoying are the EFFECTS from a group of slugs - that are now on the run, fired, in prison or soon will be.

The truth about bush, cheney and their network of evil slugs is not good for 99.9998% of the world. (.0001% US coffin makers have been slow) They took Americans and their country for a joy ride to hell, and the light you see at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train... wreck.

I wonder what "9/11 NO OATH" cheney is doing today? Playing war games perhaps? Counting his oil stocks? Selecting carpet colors for his new $7.4 million dollar home in Dubai, UAE?

Hmmmm... I'm sure its good for America, whatever he does behind those closed doors of OUR NEW SECRET out-of-control illegal government officials and employees of main stream media companies.

Sorry, but the reason for the creation of these loans is not only because of fat fees and spreads, although I am sure that is ONE of the reasons. There is a confluence of factors for why these loans were created and a primary impetus were the liberal groups like Acorn, Rainbow Coalition, etc. who lambasted banks for years and years and years for not lending to poor minorities, as well as to poor people in general. When the Fed lowered interest rates to historical lows, they saw their opportunity to placate the harpies and to stop the irresponsible studies from being made...I don't recall reading too many of these studies during the past few years to my recollection so it evidently worked. You simply cannot deny the fact that on an annual basis these studies were put out by Acorn, etc. and that they have been lobbying the banks for decades to make loans to poor people. And so with the low interest rates and yes, visions of fat fees and spreads, they did so. As I said, there's plenty of blame to go around, but we must squarely put a lot of the blame on the liberal groups who wanted banks to lend money to their constituents so they could by homes...again, homes they couldn't afford. And now Acorn, etc. is saying that the banks should now subsidize these homes...that's right out of the liberal playbook. Acorn sees nothing wrong with this subsidy since they believe that everyone should be given a home in the first place! Just part of the left's socialist mentality.

Yes, Left Wing housing activists are squarely to blame for this debacle. Without their goading and berating the banks to make loans available to poor people who couldn't afford them, we probably would not have been in this mess.

If you are liberal, I would like to know your views on the housing activists who, for years, lobbied the banks to make loans to poor people. How do you explain their lobbying efforts? Do you think that Acorn, etc. are not at least partly to blame for this mess? Do you think exotic loans would have been created in the first place had banks not been pushed to focus and put energy towards trying to lend money to poor people in the first place?

As I said, there's plenty of blame to go around...once this thing got going the banks then went hog wild and yes, fees and spreads played a big part.

But there is no way anyone can convince me that one day the banks woke up and, on their own volition, said "hey, there are tons of poor people we can money off of. yes, these poor people are folks we have never lent to in the past b/c they are such bad credit risks, but now that interest rates are so so we can create exotic loans for them with fat fees and big spreads...even though we know they won't pay back since this has been our reason for not lending to them in the first place."

Seems far fetched to me that this was done in a vacuum without the likes of Acorn, etc. telling them to serve poor people better with creative financings.

Like I said, I would love to see Acorn's studies, statements, emails, and letters to banks over the past 10 to 15 years. Once those are published, you will see that they are just as culpable as anyone else.

You're too long-winded. Typical of a conservative with an empty ideology to prattle on.

The greatest strides in our country and in ANY civilization were under times of LIBERALISM. Conservatism is obsessed with preserving the status quo and the social order. They're born authoritarians who HATE seeing people gain equality.

The last time conservatives ruled was the 30 years prior to the Depression. We're about to see a replay. I hope this time we find a better way to punish conservatives rather than simply removing them from office. I'm thinking work camps in the desert.

And to the person who is shocked by all the ideological hatred, what do you expect? Your side uses tactics that are crude, ugly and completely destructive. After seeing what conservatives did to Clinton, culminating in blackmailing another man for his personal sex life, I wouldn't lift a finger to stop the rabble from shipping conservatives off to concentration camps. Conservatives have created much more misery than they're worth. They've been a roadblock to the progress of EVERY civilization.

PS. THe Cambodian killing (though exaggerated by conservatives) are due to America's presence in Vietnam, something completely supported by CONSERVATIVES. Democrats may have participated but it was CONSERVATIVES who were obsessed with "containing communism" and the ridiculous "domino theory".

Here you have a civil war where one side has a bully behind them. As soon as that bully is gone the other side is going to kick ass with a vengeance. thin k about it. Every day on your way to school, your friend the bully pushes around the other kids. The day your bully doesn't show up they're going to destroy you.

The same thing will happen in Iraq. As soon as we leave, the people we're assisting will take out their pent up bitterness on the other side. It's human nature.

One more thing: I find it AMAZING that someone would try and blame the poor for the mortgage mess.

Do some research, you'll see it was WALL STREET that created the vehicles like CDOs so they could sell them and make lots of money. The REIC got into bed with them to provide more high risk loans that garnered a higher return.

What is wrong with savages that consistently blame poor people for everything? Meanwhile, the rich run off with their wallet. It's SICKENING.

It's the mindset of the coward that seeks to blame the least powerful for their woes. People who blame the poor are too intellectually lazy to go after the real enemy. or perhaps they are trying to gain the approval of rich that they worship. The rich that would sooner piss on them as befriend them.

you are simply insane. now i now why people on the Left are much more likely to be in therapy and taking meds than people on the Right.

i'm being long-winded because you need a thorough explanation of your own Constitution. Trust me, I don't really enjoy writing so much but you do need to be educated. I see you have not really addressed any of the substantive issues I've raised in my postings. Don't worry; I know you can't. There's really no defense you could muster.

you're world view is totally warped. it is definitely in character of the Left to say things about shipping people off to concentration camps since, afterall, the NAZIs were Socialists. The acronym NAZI stands for the National Socialist Worker's Party. So, yes, very in character for big govt. liberals/socialists like yourself to want to see people sent to concentration camps.

I guess being a conservative is a terrible thing unless of course you're a conservative when it comes to the environment (also called conservationists). just because something was written long ago does not mean it is not applicable today...like, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. You just don't make any sense. Par for the course for a liberal.

As for Cambodia, we got out of Vietnam b/c the Left wanted us to. When we left, the Khmer Rouge exterminated about 2 to 3 million of their citizens, close to 33% of them. Contrary to what you say, the US did not create the Khmer Rouge. But their existence actually fulfilled the prophecy stated by US policy of "falling dominos" -- ie. countries falling to communism. Our presence stopped them from taking over, and then when the Left got us out of the region, they went hog wild on killing everyone (figures a Leftie like you would diminish the tragedy there by saying conservatives have overstated the number of deaths...just go ask the Cambodians, they know). And then, when all the Boat People were dying on the high seas escaping your liberal/communist extermination campaign, all you Left Wingers here started crying "Save the Boat People, Save the Boat People". So we did, and we took a lot of them in. If only these poor Cambodian immigrants who are here now actually knew the truth of why their families were exterminated and they had to flee to the U.S. The truth, of course, is because you Left Wingers caused Cambodia to be taken over by the Khmer Rouge. To this day, you have not apologized to the Cambodians for cutting-and-running and I think it's about time you did. Thanks again for your idiocy and bloodletting.

Finally, I did not blame poor people for causing this mortgage crisis. I blamed their so-called supporters: Acorn, Rainbow Coalition, and the thousand of other organizations that say they champion America's poor. There's a difference, you see. But for someone of your intellectual caliber I know it is difficult for you to discern that.

and for the one policy that has bet bettered America, taking on the Democratic South when it seceeded from the Union so it could continue slavery. Lincoln was a Republican. The Republican Party was formed in 1854 in Racine, WI as a one issue party: Abolition of slavery.

So, it was the Republicans who defeated Democrat slavery in the South.

one more thing: it was the Democrats who got us involved in Vietnam, not conservatives or Republicans. Democrat Presidnet Kennedy sent advisors there and then Democrat President Johnson sent the troops. The Democratic Congress voted for the Tonkin Gulf Resolution which provided the pre-text for ramping up the war. In fact, it was a Republican president, Nixon, who got us out of the war and ended it (again, at the behest of those who started it...the Democrats).

Please don't distort history. Unfortunately, you're idiotic views have infiltrated our schools and are being taught to impressionable minds. That is why so many of us have geared up to take you bastards on. Life won't be the same for you Libs going forward...I've had it...We've ALL had it...with you.

Yeah, we're so diappointed with losing the Vietnam war we just in the past few years signed a major trade agreement with the communist Vietnamese government. But then, American capitalists will fuck anybody for a buck.

Is it up to 3 million now? Every time you hear it, it rises a few hundred thou. And what about that domino theory? See any others fall to communism? But it's a good thing we did lose. The Vietnamese government has a policy to give guaranteed healthcare to all citizens under 12. That's far better than they would get under a capitalist system like ours. And they get to sell us all the crap they make to boot. I guess there's some commies we like, huh?

Party label means little historically. Ideology is everything. Freeing the slaves was a LIBERAL idea. A LIBERAL act.

The southern democrats were CONSERVATIVES. What political party did they all end up with? REPUBLICAN. How does the south vote? Solidly REPUBLICAN. What party did Strom Thurmond switch to after the Civil Rights Act he fought so bitterly, passed? REPUBLICAN.

It's laughable the way you savages cling to the idea that your ideology is anything less than ignorance and savagery, totally based on greed, selfishness and fear. We've had to drag you cretins kicking and screaming towards progress for humanity.

You've taken full advantage of the freedoms and opportunities afforded you by LIBERAL policies but then your small, petty minds can't fathom any appreciation for that.

i see "cards'" thesis is being supported even after i expalined myself- sad - heres a no b.s. observation i've made - EVERYBODY has liberal leanings when the graduate from college- those that get good jobs and start families usually become conservatives as soon as they see their first good paychecks and realize that a huge amount of $ is being taken from them and WASTED by our gov't- money that they cant use to support their families or save.

Bitter renter- id bet my life that YOU are a woman, further id bet my life that YOU are not responsible for being the primary bread winner in your family, further you are either A) recently out of college and have not landed a decent paying job or B) have NEVER worked and rely on someone else to provide for your existance - because its glaringly obvious you live in a fairyland where all men are created equally and deserve regardless of ability or initiative an equal share of the American dream.

Don't try to justify your selfish ignorance out of frustration for having to pay the cost of living in a civilized society. That means paying for what you USE. Yes, it would be nice if everything was FREE FREE FREE but it's NOT. It's the same ignorance that makes you oblivious to the perks your taxes pay for. Of course, 30 years of tax cutting on the wealthy is why you feel overburdened. And it's still not enough to keep the infrastructure from crumbling.

I'll use my own mother as an example.

When I was a kid 40 years ago I used to hear her complain about the "damn democrats" who she blamed for making Dad pay more taxes. She conveniently forgot that every morning she'd put me (and 4 others before me) outside the door to catch a bus to the PUBLIC school where I would get educated. She forgot that her steelworker husband made good money and had good family benefits due to the LIBERAL social policies instituted decades before like the GI Bill he used to train as a machinist and the union he belonged to. She forgot that Dad drove over a federal-financed bridge to get to the mill. She forgot that when she turned on the water it came out clean and safe and that the meat and produce she feed us was FEDERALLY inspected and safe.

When her second oldest son would get shot in the head by a gunman in a convenience store robbery in the 70s, she took it for granted when he was taken to a PUBLIC hospital and nursed back to health over a 2 year period of surgeries physical therapy that restored him to almost whole. (Can you imagine a PUBLIC hospital today where someone would stay 2 years because it had the best physical therapy in the city?)

She didn't think about it when that son and two others attended a STATE university which made their tuition so low they could work and pay for it themselves and had no debt burden when they graduated.

She had no way of knowing how her husband would get cancer and his massive hospital bills would be picked up by Medicare. After he died she would then get his Social Security to help her make it. She had no way of knowing how her last illness would cost over $100,000 and that Medicare would take care of it so she could leave her small savings and home to her kids.

But she complained bitterly about paying taxes and the "damn democrats" who created her cushy life. And she lived through the Depression, the direct result of 30 years of republican rule and conservative policies that preceded it.--------------

I'm a man, 48, make over the median salary for my city, have over 6 years gross salary in the bank, absoslutely no debt and am intellectual enough to not be a piece of shit republican savage. In fact, the people with the highest achievments and intelligence are LIBERALS.

I'm also intellecutally aware enough to realize that the countries with small ineffective governments are shitholes of despair and backwardsness (think South America where poverty runs 40-60%) while the big government, socialistic countries (think Western Europe, America pre-Reagan) are models of perfection in comparison.

What you republicans don't realize is you're getting the country you voted for. Corrupt, callous, ignorant and declining. Ruled by greed, selfishness and fear.

But yet you blame the liberals without whom you'd be poor and still shitting outdoors.

Probably 90% of Southerners from about 1830 to the 1970s were Democrats...the Republican Party did not even exist until 1854 and it didn't exist in the South at all until after the Civil War until Reconstruction. After that was over in 1868, the Dems took control again and had it at the Federal level until 1994, and it still has it in many States. You just can't accept the fact that you Dems enslaved the blacks, created Jim Crow laws, gave rise to and controlled the KKK, and put the blacks under your jackbooted heels for decades upon decades. The Republicans freed the slaves...no Southerners would ever argue that point. Go ask as many as you want. The reality of this string is that you don't want to admit the facts about your political party and its history of oppression and bloodshed. I already recounted that history in my previous posts. I won't go into it again. Please review for your own edification.

As for Strom Thurmond, when he was a racist he was a member of the Democrat Party. It is only when he changed political parties to Republican that he repented and went on to be a champion of the blacks. In fact, to my knowledge, as a Republican he fired one of the first black congressional aides or something like in the Southern delegation. As for the South being Republican, that is a new phenomenon. 1994 was the first time the South sent a majority of Republicans to Congress since Reconstruction. That just proves that from 1868 to 1994 the controlling political party in the South were the Democrats. And it is from that period of time that blacks were living under Jim Crow and the KKK...again, purely Democratic philosophy and organization. (Again, prior to Reconstruction, the Dems controlled the South, enslaved the blacks, and tore the country apart with their Civil War).

As for Cambodia, the number has ALWAYS been estimated between 2 and 3 million, 33% of the population. Again, you try to diminish this tragedy (you have not even admitted here that it is one) that we all know occurred due to us leaving the region which in turn was due to the Democrats and Liberals' opposition to the war THEY started in the first place. I have demonstrated that with the facts. You have said nothing to counter them. Why? Because there are no facts you could find to argue back with. They just don't exist.

Finally, since this is a blog about housing, I just want to bring this all together for you and for other readers:

I made an assertion that Acorn, Rainbow Coalition, etc. were to blame -- at least partly to perhaps a great deal -- for berating banks to lend money to poor people to buy houses. I cited the annual studies that these groups and others put out "proving" discriminatory lending practices to minorities and others. Basically, I am saying the Liberals have as much culpability in this fiasco as Republicans do since they made the banks lend money to poor people. The banks agreed to lend the money using these damn exotic loans to get the activist groups off their backs. You then attacked me for trying to blame the poor, when I said no such thing. All I said was that it was the activist groups who were to blame, not the poor people who took their activist group advice to take out a subprime loan.

Unfortunately, your fanaticism for "the cause" made us spill over into this political discussion in which I documented and proved the odious policies, practices, and history of the Democrat Party and Liberalism and like-minded socialists like the National Socialist Workers Party (the NAZI Party in Germany prior to 1945). All of this is true. Just read the history books; or do some research on the Internet.

I know it's a rude awakening for you but I'm glad and grateful that Keith afforded me the opportunity to educate you about your Democrat Party. He didn't have to let these postings go on since they are long and not germaine to HP in a direct sense, so I am most appreciative of his patience. And with that, I will end my involvement with you on this particular thread so you can lick your wounds and reflect on the education you received here.

Yeah, the blacks are so grateful to the republican party for being their buddy that they give them about 2% of their vote. I guess the democrats have them fooled!

Don't feel bad, I would try and rationalize away my ideology if I was a filthy, lowlife conservative, too.

And I love how you brainstems say "democrat" party instead of democratic. Did Sean think that up or Ann? Like we care. You fools lost Congress AGAIN in 06 and will spend another century out of power. And when the recession hits you can bet your numbers will drop along with any power you have left. When the people are reeling with the painful effects of misguided, ignorant republican policies you'll be lucky to escape deportation. Go on, call the party whatever you want to if it makes you feel better.

Remember, thanks to the republicans causing the Great Depression, they dropped to 19% control of Congress by 1933. This time we'll ram so much socialism down your throats all you'll be able to do is SWALLOW.

You do realize you had it all just one short year ago and lost it all, right? By next year at this time the word "conservative" will be something to run from.

To recap: You had lots of power, now you have none. Your party used to run the county, now they run for their political lives.

This time we'll ram so much socialism down your throats all you'll be able to do is SWALLOW.

I'm not a Democrat or Republican. I'm a Libertarian. And you guys might not know this, given your intellectual masturbation, but this isn't a change. You've both been doing this for almost a century now.

The entire Federal Reserve system, for instance, is a giant socialist program erected by both Democrats and Republicans and shoved down our throats. It allowed the fat cats to privatize profit and socialize risk, inflating a huge housing bubble.

I have no doubt y'all will be fighting amongst each other to see which of the two corrupt legacy parties can create new socialist programs faster to "save" us from the crisis created by your older socialist programs.

Of course, as a Gen-Xer with a shrunken income versus Boomers when they were my age, and soaring taxes/cost of living, I can just drop out of the rat race and let you morons spin your wheels. At a certain point, all your big government programs, socialist spending schemes, Bush/Cheney Fed bailouts, Clinton health care abominations, etc. will make taxes so high that the marginal income from working one's ass off won't be worth it.

Once that happens, your party is over. Republicans and Democrats might be willing to reach their hands into the pockets of the productive to pay for their moronic schemes, but when you've taken out all the money that's in there, it's all over. At that point, Atlas Shrugs. At that point, the productive stop working hard to fund your retarded schemes. At that point, you run out of money to pay your own fat and lazy asses -- and since Lord knows y'all don't like to work yourselves, you starve to death.

Libertarians are nothing new. They're just a more virulent strain of selfish republican that wants to get high and go to strip clubs. The hedonist cousin. The ingrateful lout who goes out with the group, eats like a pig and then hides in the bathroom until the check gets paid.

There's always been people who wanted to pull away from the collective, not contribute to the greater good. In days gone by they were cast off to live in the woods alone and be eaten by bears. Nowadays we call them libertarians and they run for office.

I'm sorry to inform you that I don't consider my self a member of the Republican Party, therefore, I'm not a Republican. If you read my last posting, I assign blame to both Liberals and Republicans.

I don't think you read anything I wrote. I said a number of things in defense of Republicans because they are good things that they did and they are true. Don't be so draconian as to reject everything that the Repubs have done in the past based on some of the bad things they have done historically and in the present. Also, what I said, (I'll say it for a third time now) is that the housing activist groups can also be blamed for this crisis. No one has taken them to task. Bitter Renter went apoplectic about this and started hurling the Republicans suck routine at me. I felt I needed to educate him about his Democrat Party and it's bloody and discriminatory legacy, vis-a-vis that of the Republicans, specifically with respect to slavery, the KKK, and Jim Crow. I'm sorry to tell you that if you can't even find some goodness in what the Republicans did for the blacks enslaved by the Democrats then I can't really help you at all...that's your problem. It means you are probably just blinded by your own "Ayn Randian" Objectivist ideology. For your information, you call boomers and the like "selfish" etc, but Objectivism is probably the most selfish, inwardly, and self-centered philosophy there is, outside of outright hedonism. I admire much of Rand's writings... a version of Atlas Shrugged is one of the few hard covers I have in my library. You should also know that Ayn was not very happy and died a pretty miserable person, as far as I know. Perhaps too much focus on the "self" leads to misery?

I don't know whether Bitter Renter actually rents or owns, but what I do know is that he or she is BITTER. Just listen to the tone of the postings.

Of course, BR is wrong about Libertarians, but so is he/she about everything else relating to politics, economics, history, and business...so that is par for the course.

Finally, I agree the Boomers have harmed this country immensely...financially and morally. But you X-ers think the world owes you riches. Get real. You've got it the easiest of any generation in the course of human history. You should stop sulking and whining and put your nose to the grindstone and be productive. You have it the easiest of any generation to make it big, more quickly than any before you. Work hard; that will take you a long way in life, and you'll be able to leapfrog your peers as they wallow in their self pity and hatred towards their parents.

"bitter renter" : Cut the fucking crap. Where would you be right now if you had to fend for yourself - without the confiscation of the fruit of others?

You will avoid answering this question directly.

It is you that is selfish and greedy. It is you who, if productive in life, would refuse to give. By far, the people I've met in life who give the most of themselves, both physically and financially, hail from the "right", not the "left".

Think of it this way: who is more likely to be philanthropic - one who demands goods of others, or one who works and produces more goods than others?

Lay off the "greater good" b.s. Reap what you sow**IS** the "greater good" - you're just too dumb to see that deeply.

I've had it can't read. If he could he'd know that the Civil RIghts Act was introduced by Kennedy's Attorney General and promoted by northern liberal democrats and republicans. He'd also know the republican hung back and watched as civil rights split the democratic party. But then when it looked like the dems were coming together in compromise, the republicans balked over the prohibition on hiring discrimination. Then republicans started to push against it. It passed but not with much help from republicans.

Then of course there was the "southern strategy" favored by Nixon, raising racial fear and tensions in the south to garner votes. Scum.

Lyndon Johnson predicted Civil Rights would lose the south for the democrats and he was right. Then the racist crackers ran right into the welcoming arms of the republicans whose ugly new dates helped them usher in the Reagan era of deficit spending, greed, wealth worship and subtle but damaging racism.

The republicans of today are even worse than even the 80s republicans. Since Clinton's days they've become these vile pyromaniacs willing to destroy the country for their own gain rather than cooperate to build a better future.

Only stupid people believe the taxes they pay all goes to "welfare". That's why you believe that. Stupid, selfish people have been trying to blame "welfare" for their tax bill since taxes were invented as a way to force the stupid selfish people like yourself into kicking in to help pay the bills to run the country.

And how stupid do people like that get? Stupid enough that they actually believe they're the most generous people. If conservatives were generous, why do they vote against any and all programs that benefit the greater good? The conservatives I know will get off their deathbed to vote for a candidate that promises to stop any expenditures on society.

The truth is, stupid people (read, conservatives) are envious of the fantasy they have created. The "welfare" recipient sitting around all day getting supported is their dream. Conservatives salivate over the prospects of escaping the system they profess to love. That's why they have this maniacal jealousy of a class of people they think have done so. It's also why they'll do anything- including lying, cheating and stealing- to make enough money so they can stop working and play golf all day.

Oh yeah, you wanted a direct answer to your assumption that I sit around in my PJs all day spewing left wing propaganda (again, the conservative's version of class envy). I'll never get back all the money I put back into society. No kids so no deductions (bet you take all of yours, basically the government paying you to fuck and produce kids), no use of schools I pay for either. I probably pay a much bigger percentage of my income to taxes than you.

Now I gotta run. Someone else wants to use the computer in my shopping cart. I must go cash my welfare check. HAHAHAHAHA

Anyway, that you correctly stated that some racist Democrats (really, they all were in the South) left the party in the 60's and 70's and entered the GOP is an ADMISSION that you know the truth about your stinking racist Dems. Only someone who knows the true history of the South's Democrats would know that some left and went to the Republican Party. So, thanks for the slip up there -- you have admitted that the Dems are the original racists.

Now that you've admitted and established this fact for us, let's address your assertion that Republicans are racists. The truth of the matter is that southern Repubs were never racists until Democrats pushed their way into the party and took it over. The Repub Party organizationl infrastructure was very weak in the South and the racist Dems found a vehicle in the GOP in which to continue their evil ways, which they did. However, over the years, the former racist Dems and their descendents (who are now Repubs) have been marginalized and most forced out by regular Republicans - the vast majority of them. If it hadn't been for all those racist Dems taking over the Southern GOP, there never would have been racists in it in the first place. In fact, Southern blacks were mostly Republicans until the sixties, when two things happened: 1) racist Dems infiltrated the GOP, and 2) the Northern Dems started offering handouts, welfare, and affirmative action proposals to help them - (not something Southern Dems would even think of...no, they were too busy standing in front of Universities and blocking blacks from entering, or putting up Colored Only signs on water fountains and bathrooms).

So, it was these two factors that made most Southern blacks switch parties.

So, any Republican racism in the South is a recent phenomenon and it is there only because the racist Dems took over due to the Party's unorganized and fragmented political structure (which, by the way, is because the racist Dems owned the South!).

So, there you have it, Bitter Renter...your slip up revealed the truth that you knew all along but couldn't come out and say or admit. And do you know why that is?...Because you're a Democrat: sleazy, evasive, prone to distortion, lying, and most probably, a racist.

Democrat is to Slavery, as Republican is to Emancipation. That is a fact for all time.

Do this. Go to a KKK meeting and ask the people there who they voted for in the last 3 presidential elections. You'll find no Kerry, Gore or Clinton voters.

Odd, too, that you admit the racists all reside with the republican party. I could have told you that. And that's where they remain.

Lincoln was a republican. Lincoln freed the slaves. Cling to that. It was the last decent act by someone who identified as a republican.

You conservatives always run from your beliefs, eventually. I predict that in 50 years when gays are getting married legally all over the world, the conservatives of that time will be claiming they were supportive of the queers all along. (Now go ahead, try and convince me the conservatives AREN'T against gays.)

Like I said before, you savages always need to be dragged kicking and screaming towards progress. Then you claim you got their on your own.

Pathetic. But what else can we expect from small-minded people with little intellect?