The reported Hawks offer is their starting offer with no offers tendered against them. It's not clear how far up the ladder they would have gone to match.

That said, Knicks paid too much. At a certain point you just take the risk that you're gonna get matched to avoid doing something dumb. I don't mind the numbers as much as how the years are structured plus the kicker. Same numbers but with a PO after year 2 and a TO after year 3 and it's a calculated gamble. As is, it's a bad contract. There are worse. So why am I not talking about those contracts? Because **** those other dumb idiot teams. Who cares about them and their dumb contracts?

Disgruntled wrote:Of course I am disgruntled. How can you not be disgruntled if you have followed the Knicks for 25 years? It is sickening to have an idiot like Steve Mills be FOBO after all the terrible years I went through as a knick fan. A guy that on his first day as FOBO shells out 23mill. for Baker and Hardaway. An idiot that ties up an all-star level salary to two players with a mediocre ceiling. It's just plain idiot and sets the franchise back for another 3 years. Then he goes out and adds a guy that made a terrible job in Orlando...a guy that just tied Orlando to two contracts that many consider among the top 10 worst in the league (Fournier and Biyombo).....tell me what is positive right now?

July 7, 2016

ORLANDO – The Orlando Magic have signed free agent center Bismack Biyombo (bis-MOCK bee-OM-bo), General Manager Rob Hennigan announced today. Per team policy, terms of the deal are not disclosed.

See that name above...that's was the GM in Orlando when Biyombo was signed. Also, even if you assume Perry was the guy to blame, you conveniently then forget to list his accomplishments in Detroit where they...you know, won a title. Can't cherry pick just to serve your argument. If he sucked in Orlando, he was amazing in Detroit (and had a very good offseason by all accounts in Sacramento).

Also, if you think that 2nd half THJ wouldn't be worth 17m a year, you didn't actually watch him play last year, it's as simple as that. Not saying he will be that, but that type of production is worth 17m in today's NBA.

So we can say the Jury is still out on Perry.

You are rationalizing this signing in order to feel better about it. If that was the case, shouldn't the Hawks have retained him? His home team, the Hawks, clearly thought he is nowhere worth that contract. That's why they didn't match. Prior to free agency the Hawks announced that they intend to match any offer and keep Hardaway. Heck , in general, teams tend to match offers for their RFA even if they slightly overpay. The fact that the Hawks choose to not match Hardaway and didn't even take the full 48hours to notify the Knicks should tell you what they thought about that offer. The team that traded for Hardaway, giving up a first round pick, then developed him into a solid bench player, then announced that they want to keep him around refused to match a contract that you are saying is reasonable.

Let me be very clear about this: Outside some knick fans, who are either trying to rationalize this terrible signing or really believe in Hardaway's ability to make a huge improvement, no one else believes that this contract was anywhere near reasonable. In fact if you read around the league, almost all articles and analysts were baffled by this signing. The Knicks have been called "nuts" , "idiots" for dealing out an insane contract to a bench player. If what you think or say about Hardaway held any truth to it, then Hardaway would be wearing a Hawks uniform next season.

Dude you don't speak for "everyone else". You only speak for you.Noone voted you the voice of the masses, gtfo.

The Tim Hardaway Jr. signing is going to be a bargain. If you choose to think otherwise is based solely on your own percieved "truth".

n the wake of firing general manager Rob Hennigan, Magic CEO Alex Martins admitted that former coach Scott Skiles was right about the failed GM and should have stuck around until the team figured out what to do about it.

Skiles quit after only one season because he did not like the roster Hennigan had put together or the lackadaisical culture Hennigan and assistant GM Scott Perry had cultivated among its core of young players.

“Scott certainly had his concerns; I don’t think that was any secret,” Martins said when I asked if he should have listened to Skiles instead of Hennigan. “He made that very well known. He and I had several conversations about things during his tenure here.”

From talking to people close to the situation and listening to Martin’s public comments, it appears Skiles felt Hennigan and Perry coddled players and undermined the coaching staff’s ability to instill accountability. Skiles is a no-nonsense basketball lifer who didn’t like the work ethic of his young players or the culture created by the inexperienced Hennigan.

“The culture is the atmosphere and the expectations you set up around your basketball team,” Martins explained on our Open Mike radio show Friday. “How are those expectations communicated? How are you holding everybody accountable? What is the true message about the level of commitment we expect? … What do we expect from them [players] day in and day out?

“The teams that have won — whether it’s Cleveland or Golden State — have successful cultures. It’s palpable. You can feel it. When you walk into their organization everyday [in Cleveland or Golden State] you have Cavalier pride, you have Warrior pride. There was not that level of Magic pride in our basketball operation. Our culture was lacking. There wasn’t a structure to our culture and our basketball administration is responsible for that.”

Martins acknowledged that the loose, lethargic culture Hennigan created was among Skiles’ many concerns and hinted that if Skiles had stuck around he might have gotten his way. Maybe Skiles would still be here and Hennigan wouldn’t.

“There were things Scott could have done better and one of them is that he could have been more patient,” Martins said. “We were clearly having those conversations [about the culture] and working toward solutions, but Scott didn’t want to be patient about it.”

Skiles may have been impatient, but it sounds like he had everything and everybody pegged from the beginning.

I actually thing THJ has a chance to be our leading scorer this year. If we are smart and of course we never are. But we will sell high and work a trade for a young player and draft pick for him at the trade deadline.

n the wake of firing general manager Rob Hennigan, Magic CEO Alex Martins admitted that former coach Scott Skiles was right about the failed GM and should have stuck around until the team figured out what to do about it.

Skiles quit after only one season because he did not like the roster Hennigan had put together or the lackadaisical culture Hennigan and assistant GM Scott Perry had cultivated among its core of young players.

“Scott certainly had his concerns; I don’t think that was any secret,” Martins said when I asked if he should have listened to Skiles instead of Hennigan. “He made that very well known. He and I had several conversations about things during his tenure here.”

From talking to people close to the situation and listening to Martin’s public comments, it appears Skiles felt Hennigan and Perry coddled players and undermined the coaching staff’s ability to instill accountability. Skiles is a no-nonsense basketball lifer who didn’t like the work ethic of his young players or the culture created by the inexperienced Hennigan.

“The culture is the atmosphere and the expectations you set up around your basketball team,” Martins explained on our Open Mike radio show Friday. “How are those expectations communicated? How are you holding everybody accountable? What is the true message about the level of commitment we expect? … What do we expect from them [players] day in and day out?

“The teams that have won — whether it’s Cleveland or Golden State — have successful cultures. It’s palpable. You can feel it. When you walk into their organization everyday [in Cleveland or Golden State] you have Cavalier pride, you have Warrior pride. There was not that level of Magic pride in our basketball operation. Our culture was lacking. There wasn’t a structure to our culture and our basketball administration is responsible for that.”

Martins acknowledged that the loose, lethargic culture Hennigan created was among Skiles’ many concerns and hinted that if Skiles had stuck around he might have gotten his way. Maybe Skiles would still be here and Hennigan wouldn’t.

“There were things Scott could have done better and one of them is that he could have been more patient,” Martins said. “We were clearly having those conversations [about the culture] and working toward solutions, but Scott didn’t want to be patient about it.”

Skiles may have been impatient, but it sounds like he had everything and everybody pegged from the beginning.

Maybe he should be the Magic’s new GM.

Or, at the very least, the new “culture coordinator.”

Interesting.

Hope that's more Hennigan than Perry.

Even if its true who cares. Its Scott Skiles. Larty Brown looks like a players coach next to him. Treats professionals like its bootcamp. Think about this. He was shown the door in Chicago and later replaced by Thibodeou. Dude cant relate to pros, his opinion shouldn't matter

n the wake of firing general manager Rob Hennigan, Magic CEO Alex Martins admitted that former coach Scott Skiles was right about the failed GM and should have stuck around until the team figured out what to do about it.

Skiles quit after only one season because he did not like the roster Hennigan had put together or the lackadaisical culture Hennigan and assistant GM Scott Perry had cultivated among its core of young players.

“Scott certainly had his concerns; I don’t think that was any secret,” Martins said when I asked if he should have listened to Skiles instead of Hennigan. “He made that very well known. He and I had several conversations about things during his tenure here.”

From talking to people close to the situation and listening to Martin’s public comments, it appears Skiles felt Hennigan and Perry coddled players and undermined the coaching staff’s ability to instill accountability. Skiles is a no-nonsense basketball lifer who didn’t like the work ethic of his young players or the culture created by the inexperienced Hennigan.

“The culture is the atmosphere and the expectations you set up around your basketball team,” Martins explained on our Open Mike radio show Friday. “How are those expectations communicated? How are you holding everybody accountable? What is the true message about the level of commitment we expect? … What do we expect from them [players] day in and day out?

“The teams that have won — whether it’s Cleveland or Golden State — have successful cultures. It’s palpable. You can feel it. When you walk into their organization everyday [in Cleveland or Golden State] you have Cavalier pride, you have Warrior pride. There was not that level of Magic pride in our basketball operation. Our culture was lacking. There wasn’t a structure to our culture and our basketball administration is responsible for that.”

Martins acknowledged that the loose, lethargic culture Hennigan created was among Skiles’ many concerns and hinted that if Skiles had stuck around he might have gotten his way. Maybe Skiles would still be here and Hennigan wouldn’t.

“There were things Scott could have done better and one of them is that he could have been more patient,” Martins said. “We were clearly having those conversations [about the culture] and working toward solutions, but Scott didn’t want to be patient about it.”

Skiles may have been impatient, but it sounds like he had everything and everybody pegged from the beginning.

Maybe he should be the Magic’s new GM.

Or, at the very least, the new “culture coordinator.”

Interesting.

Hope that's more Hennigan than Perry.

Even if its true who cares. Its Scott Skiles. Larty Brown looks like a players coach next to him. Treats professionals like its bootcamp. Think about this. He was shown the door in Chicago and later replaced by Thibodeou. Dude cant relate to pros, his opinion shouldn't matter

The point wasn't about Skiles. The guy who fired them ended up saying he was right.

Lcny wrote:If this is a full rebuild one very important thing needs to be ironed out ASAP. Melo cannot play the 3 this season. He badly wants to go to Houston where he would have to guess what, play the 4. So he has zero right to cry about playing the four in NY. You do whats in best interest of the team. That said. This obviously means accelerating KP's move to the 5. Big position change. He can operate closer to basket resulting in less TO's driving to the basket. He should be two steps away from the hole and generate more fouls. He should still be able to net a couple transition 3's per game to keep his average up but his overall game more efficient by not sitting on the 3 line. A move to the 5 should all result in more 2nd chance points and defensive rebounds.

If this transition works he should be Mr. Double double next season avg. 25 and 10.

Hi Ballboy.

Yes, it's true. Hornacek will play them just as you said so this can be considered a full rebuild. Anything short of that, and Perry will have his a$$.

Now STFU and GTFO.

Feel free to PM. We could meet up and you could reiterate your position.

Lcny wrote:If this is a full rebuild one very important thing needs to be ironed out ASAP. Melo cannot play the 3 this season. He badly wants to go to Houston where he would have to guess what, play the 4. So he has zero right to cry about playing the four in NY. You do whats in best interest of the team. That said. This obviously means accelerating KP's move to the 5. Big position change. He can operate closer to basket resulting in less TO's driving to the basket. He should be two steps away from the hole and generate more fouls. He should still be able to net a couple transition 3's per game to keep his average up but his overall game more efficient by not sitting on the 3 line. A move to the 5 should all result in more 2nd chance points and defensive rebounds.

If this transition works he should be Mr. Double double next season avg. 25 and 10.

Hi Ballboy.

Yes, it's true. Hornacek will play them just as you said so this can be considered a full rebuild. Anything short of that, and Perry will have his a$$.

Now STFU and GTFO.

Feel free to PM. We could meet up and you could reiterate your position.

You should thank me for what I said. All ballboys need to hear that - it's our custom. If we all forgot to do that for you, you'd never become a real member.

"I think this is really good experience for me, actually. It's a tough year, it's a tough everything. There's a quote, 'If the sea is smooth, you're never going to become a great sailor'" Porzingis said"

Wille starting and Prozingis playing the four. They named those players as the core. Melo would play the three because they have no young players to play that position. Lee would get traded for a Vet point if Melo stay

Lcny wrote:If this is a full rebuild one very important thing needs to be ironed out ASAP. Melo cannot play the 3 this season. He badly wants to go to Houston where he would have to guess what, play the 4. So he has zero right to cry about playing the four in NY. You do whats in best interest of the team. That said. This obviously means accelerating KP's move to the 5. Big position change. He can operate closer to basket resulting in less TO's driving to the basket. He should be two steps away from the hole and generate more fouls. He should still be able to net a couple transition 3's per game to keep his average up but his overall game more efficient by not sitting on the 3 line. A move to the 5 should all result in more 2nd chance points and defensive rebounds.

If this transition works he should be Mr. Double double next season avg. 25 and 10.

Hi Ballboy.

Yes, it's true. Hornacek will play them just as you said so this can be considered a full rebuild. Anything short of that, and Perry will have his a$$.

Now STFU and GTFO.

Feel free to PM. We could meet up and you could reiterate your position.

Hardaway, 25, was a restricted free agent, and the Knicks didn’t want to be like the Nets — have their contract offer matched. The Knicks gave Hardaway $17.75 million per year.

“We watched him in our opinion grow over his time in the player development program that they had in Atlanta,’’ Mills said. “We felt like there are not that many opportunities in free agency that you have the opportunity to go after a 25-year-old. We made the decision that if you want to pry a restricted free agent away from the incumbent team, you have to be aggressive. So we made a decision to be aggressive. As we look at the numbers, we believe Tim is a starting 2 guard in this league. The capability of being a starting two guard for the rest of his career and those guys average 16, 16.5 million dollars.’’

dakomish23 wrote:Now we should ignore cap flexibility when rebuilding?

Who cares what age he is compared to what he's making? How about we compare his output to what he's making??

You should pay more attention to how good teams operate. You would stop making excuses for bad decisions.

How does THJr hurt a rebuild?

Acting as if THJr is making $20M per year and the cap is $50M.

Frank, THJr, small forward, Kristaps, Willy << This will be your core

He hurts the rebuild because he's taking up a spot on a bad team that could have been filled by a cheaper and younger player. This whole rebuild is already starting out backwards.

Lol the rebuild started years ago. Kp is hopefully the corner stone, knicks are building off him to bulid a core. It's not like we're starting at the beginning. You have a stud now add to the talent bulid a culture and learn to play together.

Nothing backwards about it, you don't just soak your star player with losing and a tanking mentality, you add to him take chances and get players that can play off kp that has the talent to improve.

He hurts the rebuild because he's taking up a spot on a bad team that could have been filled by a cheaper and younger player. This whole rebuild is already starting out backwards.

Lol the rebuild started years ago. Kp is hopefully the corner stone, knicks are building off him to bulid a core. It's not like we're starting at the beginning. You have a stud now add to the talent bulid a culture and learn to play together.

Nothing backwards about it, you don't just soak your star player with losing and a tanking mentality, you add to him take chances and get players that can play off kp that has the talent to improve.

when does the winning start happening? or is that part of the rebuild? If it's not then it actually makes sense.