Fans & Clans

All of the thanks to goes to Carnius for a great mod, I am thankful that you are kind enough to make this for me and the rest of the CNC community, without caring about any kind of pay or reimbersment. I and, I believe the rest of the CNC community really just want to say, THANKS CARNIUS!
and thank you for coming to TEF.

I've opened this thread because I would like to discuss with you about Nod epic unit(s).

In TE 1.4 readme Carnius wrote about Nod. This side is all about mobility and versatility, so a super heave unit doesn't fit properly.

In the forum some people think the Cyborg Commando isn't enough to be considered "epic".

Looking other factions we find Scrin, that has Mastermind, Conqueror and 2 mother ships (in alternative).

GDI has Commando and Mammoth II (can be customized with additional weapons), I'm not sure GDI needs a new epic unit too.

The Brotherhood has the Commando and the Cyborg commando. In past (and in other forums like project perfect) people said Nod needs something more.

Here some suggestions.

According to Carnius philosophy I've thought about a ground unit, a merge between the Montauk design and the Fist of Nod.

This unit has 2 modes. In vehicle form used a medium/long range weapon useful for hit and run tactics (the kind of weapon is up to you, I may suggest a chemical or cluster missile). Once deployed can use propaganda/subliminal messages to increase the efficiency of allied units (like armour and rate of fire). Plus can it build ground vehicles like a war factory, acting as a support base in the battlefield. I guess it will work perfectly in combo with phantoms (because the stealth and the repair ability) and all the other Nod units.

The name of the unit? Montauk? Fist of Nod? Fist of Montauk? Kane's Fury? Something other? Up to you.

Speaking about the Cyborg Commando, there's something that can be added/upgraded.

A simple buff can be a better resistance against heavy vehicles. Then I repeat a suggestion from the past. Like the Mammoth II, the Cyborg Commando can be customized with 2 alternative upgrades. The riot generator which works like psychotropic grenades, making enemy units (vehicles too) hostile with each others in a medium AoE, or a powerful riot beam (like the RA3 Future Tank X1) able to decimate most of the units/structures in the line of fire. The cost of this Cyborg Commando should be 4000.

Personally I guess both of these suggestion can be implemented with some adjustments.

Despite I find your epic idea awesome, and really close to my own vision of an epic, carnius has denied to make another epic for Nod, so I think it's very unlikely, but it's still a good idea and I support it.

But the CC is still not close to as powerful as the Mammoth Mk2 or the Conqueror are. If Nod only keeps him, my idea to make him a worthy adversary against all those epics:
1) Give it an area of effect around it to make allied units around it fight better (more HP, damage, speed)
2) Give it a series of upgrades, like the Avatar:
-Frontline: Gives the CC a riot generator and a flamethrower with a considerable range.
-Spec Ops: Gives the CC a stealth generator similar to the normal Commando and an AA laser.
(the following is kind of crazy, but cool in my opinion)
-Prototype: Gives the CC a liquid Tiberium sprayer and faster rifiring time.
3) Make it explode after it's dead. ("I have died, but I'll take all of you with me b*tches!" logic)

Playmsbk, can I ask you to explain your differences between mine and your idea for about your Nod epic vehicle? I'm just curious. For the rest thank for your support, I appreciate it and I hope Carnius may reconsider his idea.

Speaking about the Cyborg Commando, I guess the "Frontline" upgrade is the best IMHO. And about the "final" explosion I vote yes if only doesn't make a friendly fire side effect.

My vision is something that cannot be detected, first idea was a big Stealth Tank\Stealth Artillery, it could be upgraded with some weapon (can't really remember right now). My other idea (that is the most similar) was a super strong bug unit with lasers\tiberium weapons\rockets that can take on some epic units for a little time and then leave quickly. It also had a mode to turn into a big stealth generator\outpost that has the abillity to defend itself with some Obelisks of Light that rose around it while in deployed mode and gives ground control around it. The diference here isthat my unit can defend itself while deployed with guns and cannot build units, but acts as an outpost of some sorts.

So we are longing for (another?) NOD epic unit.And now it will be a vehicle.Fullfiling NOD doctrine... Or changing the existing ones. I dont like that Kane's Fury so much but that Riot beam on CC sounds good.On the other hand,CC with bunch of upgrades,flamethrower,stealth generator,and I-dont-know-what sounds kind of fishy and OP for me.Playmsbk's Phantom like unit that will deploy itself in outpost and Obelisk of light aint bad,but basically it feels like NOD Rig and nothing more and that aint epic unit.What I am thinking is also not some epic vehicle but suport unit.The unit that will basically work like Basilisk (but with no attack) that will be able to increase range for vehicles in area of effect.(Devils tonque,Cobra,stealth tanks and so on, provided with greater range ,and the like,sounds good or not ?) Or to give NOD a unit that will provide vehicles with bigger effectiveness like Ion storms do for Scrin air units.Provide the Scarab with health and armor upgrade would be also nice.xd

My idea is similar to the Rig, but nothing like it. The Bug Unit is a hit'n'run vehicle with a look of a spider\scorpion\caterpillar that can hit its targets and then dig a hole underground and hide in it, unless you order it to deploy its Obelisks and become a stationary and visible building (can't pack up from now then), but with a repair and\or building radius and strong armor and attack. Nod's doctrine consists of three areas. Strong defense, hidden units and super high-tech stuff, two of them are presented by this unit.

Well, athough your unit sounds good for a support unit, it can't be considered an epic because it just is nothing like an epic, but a mobile KW Voice of Kane that can also unleash weapons Nod doesn't have (it's better to keep the Ion Storm Generators to Scrin)

Also, I don't see how some upgrades that only 1 can be upgradeable at a time would make the CC OP, while the Conqueror has double the armor and 4 weapons (Big Green Laser, Tripod Proton Beams, Avatar Lasers, Juggernaut Tiberium Launcher) Mammoth Mk2 triple the armor and 4 weapons (4 Major Railguns, 2 Rocket pods, 1 Double Auto-cannon, AA Railgun\Disk Launcher). The Cyborg Commando is but another prey when these units are upgraded, tell me what's OP then.

Well, I really like the ideas with the CC upgrades and also the crawler-like montauk.
Another idea would be maybe adding a new T3 vehicle that is a subterran one. So it's fast, high tech and a bit hidden. It's very much into the style of hit-and-run. As weapons i've thought of a simple laser. So my idea is just adding another cool unit to nod's army than creating a totally new epic unit,because that is also the style of nod in TE i think. nod has very powerful standard units: the cobra, phantom, banshee, avatar with new upgrades, CC. Each unit can't reach that much like an epic unit, but combined they are even stronger.
for example i've some pics of that subterran laser unit: Moddb.com
i thought of something like that

I think the most important thing when a new unit is added is a side valutation, in order to mantain each side's distinctive feature. The second point is: "What this side really needs to be complete and fairly balanced? How can this unit works with other units in the arsenal?" After these considerations everyone can understand what kind of unit is needed for each side.

For these reasons I've thought about to upgrade the CC (at least to make it more useful and versatile) and the "Montauk Crawler". According to Nod doctrine, and considering a possible counterpart of GDI Rig, I think there's need to a good support unit, with heavy armour (but lighter than Conqueror/Mammoth 2), good speed (Drilling mechanism can work fine), good firepower and some abilities that make all other Nod units more efficient. Plus this unit needs to repack for a safe escape.

I guess there's no need to a "super version" of an already existing unit, but something able to enhance other units.

I think that the CC is already fairly evil, but if it must be upgraded i recommend a little more of a mix from Tib sun and Reborn. mabey a short range flamethrower and the plasma cannon with the large AOE damage for infantry at range. and having him make other units around him fight harder does make sense in consideration of moral. when your fighting next to the deadliest weapon on your team you tend to think you cant loose (as a soldiers point of view) But i still think that adding a Super tank is a little out of nods style and CC does fine as you can get him in with the underground transports cause chaos and get out fast.

I have an idea it's call the King Scorpion it is a huge Scorpion it's tail have one big laser cannon,its left pincer have a flamethrower
and the right is a gatling gun it also can be subterranean but hiding underground or sneak attack at enemy base.Some thing
for transformer the movie.

Well if you want the Montauk to work i can think of only one way to make it versatile enough but i doubt Carnius will go for it. Permit me to explain,(apologies for the length of this post) you would purchase the front cab of the vehicle from either a special building or perhaps the Temple (for maybe 4000). This would have the ability to launch a Tiberium Chemical missile identical to the support power except with a longer cool off time and also has a morale boosting aura that improves rate of fire to allies and has the opposite effect on enemy units. It also has subterranean capabilities similar to the flame tank. After this has been purchased you can then purchase several different "carriages" from the cab section (up to five) allowing you to vary the configuration of the Montauk making it adaptable.

Suggested carriage types:

Type 1: Mobile Training Facility - this section of the underground train functions in a similar way to the Hand of Nod allowing you to produce Militia, Rocket Infantry and Engineers on the move (at the usual cost), it's also a mobile field hospital, healing injured infantry in a similar way to the Hand of Nod. Cost 1000 - production queue paused while underground.

Type 2: Mobile War Factory - this section of the underground train functions in a similar way to the War Factory allowing you to produce Attack Cycles, Buggies, Scorpion Tanks & Scarab APCs (at the usual cost). It does not have the War Factory's repair aura. Cost 2500 - production queue paused while underground.

Once attached to the front cab the carriages are pulled by it and can go underground when it does, however if separated from the front cab (by carriages in front being destroyed) the carriages are immobile but still functional. All sections of the train are separately destroyable. The more carriages you add (to a maximum of five) the slower the Montauk becomes but as well as choosing carriage type you can choose the order in which they are placed. each section of train has about 2.5 times the health of the Nod Avatar

Speaking about Kodiak and Montauk I guess they will be introduced, maybe in future releases, after all they are TS units.

I like most of your ideas, because this unit is not "super heavy", it's "sneaky", "subtle" and very very useful. The subterranean ability should be unique in terms of animations. Just look at the front of the vehicle. It has 3 big spikes, they can vibrate at high frequency to pierce the ground and move. The side spikes can move too, to increase the overall mobility. I like to think about a "deployable" vehicle and the mobile war factory (fist of nod?) can be the most useful configuration. Because if it can produce some phantoms can be stealth, and can produce/support vehicles behind the enemy base or in some blind points, making them simily lethal for surprise and hit and run attacks. This may work with the mobile training facility configuration. The idea of "voice of Kane" to improve the morale can be really useful. As "undeploed" weapon I may suggest a medium ranged "baby nuke" warhead. The weapon doesn't fire if the vehicles is deployed. I am a bit doubtful about the armored carriage because the "energy drain" (does affect the power plants?).

armoured carriage would be powered by the Montauk itself not your powerplants, but as i said dont think Carnius will go for it. tried to balance it by making the barracks and war factory functions more limited than their non mobile counterparts and having a longer recharge time on the missile and reducing the speed for every carriage added. Idea is if you want heavier units or support units like the phantom you have to have them escort alongside