OK... finished. I think the big problem a lot of people had with the MS thing was the contradictory statements put out after the fact about used games, always online, etc. You guys touched on that a bit, but I think deemphasized it overall in terms of explaining the net rage. Either Wombat is right and they threw it out there to gauge the reaction to those things or they have already decided to go with the more restrictive options and are trying to downplay it by not answering the issue directly. Maybe they are now madly redesigning those aspects and will come out at E3 and announce there are no restrictions .

Regardless of what they are up to, they should have put forward a more unified response than they did. But let's face it, by not flat out denying the used game and always (or even daily, hourly, whatever) online rumors, that confirmed everyone's worst fears. So it does seem like they are leaning that direction, although plans could still be up in the air and hopefully they take some of the negative reaction to heart and if there is time change that stuff they will do so.

However, I think it is an entirely reasonable scenario that MS goes with the used game restriction and Sony does not. I don't think they both have to go one way or the other. You guys touched on the reason - if the majority of sales are to people interested in Madden and Call of Duty and those people have always been Xbox customers, I think they might grumble a bit over the used game issue, but buy the ONE regardless. And maybe MS banked on wowing everyone else with all the other features such that they would live with the restrictions.

I was disappointed with the conference. Even if you guys mention it was a HARDWARE conference, this is a GAMING machine we are talking about. Most gaming enthusiasts are interested in seeing what it can do for their GAMING experience, and for MS to de-emphasize that in favor of TV and Sports, is ultimately disappointing. I had a feeling of "more of the same" from the Sony reveal, but at least there was a huge gaming presence, even welcoming the indie movement to PS4 via Jonathan Blow. MS is giving us cars, COD and sports. I guess I am not the dudebro target audience.

Also, remember, consoles are a worldwide thing. As a non-american, I can let you guess how many shits I give about Fantasy Football, NFL and TV services such as Netflix that do not work outside the US. If they continue on this path, ONE will do abysmally outside the US.

People are mad about the X1 (or I'm mad at least) because it's so anti-consumer.

Mandatory online will automatically cut out some of the market. I have a pretty good, constant connection but that doesn't mean I want to use it to phone home to MS every day or every time I want to play a new game. Assuming Sony doesn't force this, that alone is enough for me to choose PS4 over X1.

As for buying/selling used games and such, I expect to be able to do all that just like I have for the last 25 years. They can spin shit all they want, in the end it's just more anti consumer bullshit for them to get more money out of you. I don't want to pay $60 for permission from MS to use a license. I want to pay for a game that I then own and can do whatever I want with.

Also I don't care about integrating with live TV and the whole focus on a complete entertainment experience. It won't work for shit anyway because things like that never do, and even if it does work as promised, cable TV is on the way out and people aren't going to use it. Especially when you'll have to pay for the Xbox and the Gold sub and the sub to every other service imaginable on top of all that. Yet they used half their presentation to tell me about this and shit like plastering IE or Skype or Halo shows over top of my game screen! No thanks.

I was half expecting them to announce a new program called OW My Balls! from Michael Bay. It seems to be the market they're going after and I'm sure it'd be a big hit with the target audience.

I have a bad feeling you're right and Sony may do the same thing with used games and if they do I think/hope it'll end badly for the entire industry. Maybe it needs a reboot. The consumer should not be forced to connect to them, they should be reaching out and connecting with us, the gamers.

Unless Microsoft has lost their minds, I'm sure they know how they are rolling this out. They have spent a ton of time and money trying to get their system to be an all-in-one unit that people want to buy......so of course they will tout these features.

With that said, I'm sure they know they can't piss off the hardcore gamer in the end as thats a big segment of your $$$$$.

This is America and people overreact about everything, so this is just the next ting for people to get emotional about.

All that being said- if it was the best machine I still would probably buy it. But the PS4 looks to blow it out of the water performance wise. 3rd party games might look close visually because they will build to the lowest common denominator, but they will almost certainly run smoother on PS4.

MS is hiding behind the buzzword of "The Cloud" and hoping most people don't realize that a cloud can't generate graphical data for a game and stream it to your XB1. Well, it could but it would create a ton of lag- that's why OnLive didn't catch on.

The problem with the Xbox conference was they waited for weeks after sony's conference and while sony was gathering good will by reaching out to indies MS did nothing, then when MS finnally had thier conference they didn't one up sony in anyway nor did they even target thier message to gamers.
Then post conference instead of leaking something to entice gamers all we got was a bunch of anti-consumer design features.

@ wombat
As far as system power what really matters is the GPU(graphics card).
The PS4 is about 50% more powerful than the XB1 based on the leak specs most of which have been confirmed.
PS4-about 2000 Gflops(rumored)-Ps3 about 400 Gflops PS2 about 6 Gflops
XB1-about 1200 Gflops(rumored)-360 about 350 Gflops xbox about 20 Gflops

For comparison cheapy's graphics card has more computational power than the new xbox and PS combined.
A 3000 gflop graphics card can be had for under $300 on sale.

Both systems are basically designed like PCs so they should both be equally easy to develop for unlike last gen.

Any one else find it funny cheapy was mad that MS leaked all their anti-consumer features but not that they want to implement anti-consumer features.

Forgive me if I have a little nuance to my worldview, and am not a black/white ideologue who can't grasp complexity.

Also just some quick things from the show that as far as I know weren't correct or weren't known. Or maybe I'm wrong because I'm not going to go back and double check...but anyway as far as I know:

- X1 controller will use AA batteries
- Cheapy talked about how big the box is. I saw something that said about 11.6 inches in length which is comparable to the original PS3 Slim, or about an inch longer than the Xbox 360 Slim. I dont know about the other dimensions though.
- Someone said the external hard drive will be able to store everything that the internal drive can

If one company does prevent used games while the other doesn't (which I don't believe will happen), you can bet the company that does it will be getting some exclusive 3rd party games.

Publishers have been complaining too long and too hard about used games for it to not go unaddressed by the next generation of consoles.

Personally, I think both companies will restrict used games. Sony won't restrict their own first party games to keep gamer goodwill (they already said that). They will blame the publishers for forcing it on them.

The fee for used games thing is because of Microsoft's new feature that lets you install the whole game and play it without putting in your disc every time. In an interview I listened to, a Microsoft guy explained that with that install feature and if they didn't have a fee or something, someone could just pass games around and all their friends could install it.

So if Sony isn't doing that install thing, then I definitely think they could be the console that allows used games without a fee.

Also, I knew they weren't going to be showing a lot of games, BUT, I did expect at least SOME of their new features to have something to do with gaming in some way...

Most of Sony's new features had to do with playing games faster, like being able to play games while they're downloading, instant demos,etc. And the streaming stuff is a big thing right now also.

Last thing, as someone that plays a ton of fantasy sports, that feature doesn't seem like a big deal to me at all because I have a laptop.

Where's my pill that allows me to forget the entire unveiling and go back to the dreams I had for the nextbox?

Yes cable tv channels don't switch that fast. They also showed off live ESPN showing a game or showing highlights of a basketball game from at least 5 days before the unveiling. NOt to mention who watches live tv anymore anyway?

Fantasy Football on your tv screen won't take off. For many reasons. Box connected to cable box has been done in past and is a pain. $400 isn't going to entice the non-gamer crowd to get it for FF. Phones are more convenient for checking stats. MS wants you to use it anyway to help control the experience. Your nextbox would be tied to 1 tv. Not portable. If you are watching a game with friends the friends will be annoyed if your stats are popping up all the time. Who wants to shrink the size of the game in order to check your stats? Gesture and voice control? No way. ....a non-gamer will just get a new iPad or iPHone instead won't they? My brothers are into FF too and don't play games. I don't see them getting this. Too much effort to get the tech up and running. Connecting not only 2 boxes via HDMI and/or IR blasters, learning voice and gesture control, setting up the Kinect camera, having the huge second box (i hope the power supply is built-in,) and wiring the Kinect camera thing and touching a game controller etc etc. All for Fantasy Football? Not going to happen.

PS4 is more powerful from the looks of it. And the PS4 power is actually exploitable this time around unlike last time around. But both are in the same ballpark. And games often are made with the lowest common denominator in mind.

MS just didn't make the case for using your tv screen to do these side tasks. They didn't seem to ponder the question on whether this stuff is better suited to your phone or tablet or not.

I'd be alot more excited about the tv features if I didn't need a second box (so would America) and if I could timeshift tv. And why not just make it a pc too?

But the conference was as expected. A 1 hour bullshot affair. It was like talking to a used car salesman for an hour and then having to wait 6 months to test drive the most awesome, best ever, tv and sports playing, camera-equipped, voice-controlled car that just might also go from point a to point b.

I love how people can determine anything out of 2 conferences by the way, how do people formulate such firm opinions based on anything yet?

In the end, I will own both.......the only thing I wont do is buy both at launch. If there are no significant GAMES early on, I will own an Xbox for the non-gaming features it has. I figure having a backlog of a bazillion games affords me the luxury of waiting a bit too if there is nothing amazing to play right away.

The no used games thing is just a variable price increase. How large depends on your previous game buying habits. For anyone in the habit of buying a $60 game and then reselling it in time to get $30 back, it's a 100% price increase. Caveat being you still have the game. You can do the math for various pricepoints and resale values. If you always bought new and never traded in a game then no price increase.

I'm philosophical about it. IF they feel like they have to do it then they probably have to do it. Just adapt. I'm already used to it on the pc . I don't think a single game I've bought the past few years isn't tied to an account. It just makes you more discerning about your game purchases.

If there is a used games market then it will be 100% controlled by MS. No open market for used games. Probably the same dealio on the PS4 side. IF they involve retailers maybe you will get a discount on your next game purchase while an outfit (retailer) like Gamestop will be able to generate a new code for the used disc/case/manual.

Actually, I don't mind it all. I always use really nice headset/headphones (Turtle Beach) when playing games that require talking or teamwork. My kids aren't old enough to join me in Battlefield/Halo/COD.

Interesting decision though. To me the problem with this decision it is not Kinect picking up my voice. I think that could work. I see the problem as not wanting the swearing/racism/sexism to come out my speakers for all to hear.

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