--- Quote from: Bugfartboy on December 14, 2010, 09:26:59 PM ---He has been doing good things in the world. Just not in America. And if God is mad at us, well gee, I wonder why? He is slow to anger and quick to forgive. Look at America and you'll see a country that has lost all of the benefits that it had at it's beginning, when it was still in it's christian roots. And hellfire belongs in hell. For now anyways. But am I the only one who has noticed the weather going somewhat haywire lately? God doesn't need hellfire or fire from heaven to make his point. Many wars were prophesied to mark the end of the age and lo and behold, what do I see but war? Now, if you look only at the facts, you can't just say,"Oh wow. The earth is in bad shape! Let's just keep doing what we were and somehow the problem will fix itself by randomness."

--- End quote ---So... what you're trying to say is that if every single American went to church every Sunday, global warming would suddenly cease in America? If so, sorry to burst your bubble, but there will always be someone that doesn't believe in God, or at least not fully, and worshiping Him doesn't count if you don't believe, right?

bugfartboy:
Going to church would have very little to do with it. Church is a gathering place for believers and non alike to worship Him. I never said that if it were back on track, things would cease to go down hill. I think we've been pushing the limit and may end up like Soddom and Gommorah.

--- Quote from: Genesis 19:13 ---For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it.” --- End quote ---

--- Quote from: Genesis 19:24 ---Then the Lord rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the Lord out of the heavens. --- End quote ---These were some pretty sinful cities if you ask me if God destroyed them. And I think he would have to apologize to Sodom and Gommorah if he let's America keep going like this and doesn't do the same. If you read more into the chapter:

--- Quote from: Genesis 19: 4-5 ---Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.” --- End quote ---And those men were:

--- Quote from: Genesis 19:1 ---Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.--- End quote ---Just to let you know. And of you didn't get that: Angels. Now if homosexual gang rapes were roaming around publicly, and I'm pretty sure they are in the bigger cities in the shadows, how long until God does the same to us?

Steel Ersatz Man:

--- Quote from: Duckling on December 14, 2010, 06:12:28 PM ---I was actually having a nice discussion with yogc elf about the nature of sin, morals, ethics, regret, and guilt, and whether you could say that animals can feel those, too, and thus whether humans are truly different in ways other than sheer intelligence and complexity of brain.

And then you came in playing the "wouldn't you like to consider yourself part of something larger" card, to which I say

I would rather live my life believing that there is no God; I hold myself to be a rigorously scientific person, and believing in a God whose Word is:

"Who do you really want to believe? Me, or your own lying eyes?" to which I say that I will trust my eyes thank you very much, and if they lie, you made them lie.

If there is a God, all I have to say is that there just as easily could have been an Allah, or a Jewish God, or a Buddha, or Hindu god(s), or a bunch of Greek Olympians, and I would have been damned even worse if I had been Christian. I honestly say that the odds were atrociously stacked against me, with thousands of religions, most of which saying that if you pick any other, you're damned. So, O great and mighty one (godly for To Whom It May Concern), sorry, but the chances of me finding the right one out of all these charlatans are miniscule, and I am no prophet; I'd rather live life to the fullest, believing my own eyes, lying or otherwise, than play the lottery.

--- End quote ---

That is one of the reasons I became agnostic instead of Athiest. So, if there is a God, then he/she/it/they won't be as SpoilerWarning, Profanity.Spoilerpissed about me not believing in them. And, if there isn't a God, then I was closer to the right answer than the rest of the population who believed in a religion. So, regardless of what the situation is, I PROBABLY won't be damned. Just another interpretation for you to think about...

I'm an atheist agnostic; I don't believe in a god, God, Allah, Buddha, Zeus, or anyone / thing else (this is the atheist part). There could be a god of some sort, and if there is, they're doing a good job of covering their tracks. But there's just no clear evidence for it or against it (this is what makes me agnostic), so we might as well just partake in the facts, and leave God out of it.

bugfartboy:
Alrighty. You've attempted to shoot holes. My turn. The universe is constantly expanding. This is a somewhat known fact is it not? It must have had a beginning somewhere, right? So where if not by a being outside of time and space? (Also known as a god (or in this case, God)). And where did matter come from? Don't tell me cosmic radiation. What about the law of the conservation of mass? Matter is neither created nor destroyed in a chemical reaction. However, one outside of time and space could easily create matter, seeing as space has no hold on them, without breaking this law of nature. Does this not make sense? And where did the energy to form space and matter come from if not outside of space and time and more specifically, from a god or God?