When to Say “No” or “Not Now”

As I reflected on the best way to assess if it would be wise to set a self-protective boundary and say "no" or "not now," the Buddha's teachings on wise speech came to mind. In essence, he cautioned us to speak only when what we have to say is true, kind, and helpful. Wise speech is one of the factors on the Buddha's eightfold path to the cessation of suffering. What we say matters because speech that is true, kind, and helpful alleviates suffering as opposed to intensifying it.

In setting wise boundaries—that is, in deciding if it's time to say "no" or "not now"—I suggest applying a variation of the Buddha's three-part test: Apply the test of true, kind, and helpful to the effect of your speech and actions on yourself.

Is it true to yourself? Ask yourself if the speech or action you're about to engage in is true to your values. Are you going to say or do something because of social pressure or just because it will impress others? I spent a good part of my younger years speaking and acting in just this way, even if it didn't reflect my deepest values, and I suffered for it. (I once smiled in implied assent to a racist comment because the speaker had contributed money to my husband's political campaign; although it happened 25 years ago, I can still feel the self-incrimination arise as I write this.)

By not engaging in speech or action that violates our values, we are, in effect, saying "no" to ourselves—"no" to speech or action that will intensifying our own suffering. We're setting a wise, self-caring boundary.

Is what you're about to say or do kind and helpful to yourself? These two factors often involve looking at the timing. Maybe what we're considering (e.g., inviting people over) meets the test of true, kind, and helpful to others, but given the limitations imposed by our health, it's time to set a self-caring boundary because we're not well enough to expend the energy it takes to engage with others.

The best practice to help us make these assessments with wisdom is mindfulness which, in this context, means paying careful attention to how we feel at the moment, both in body and in mind.

Let me share a story from my own life that illustrates how I came to apply these tests in a way that allowed me to set skillful and compassionate boundaries for myself.

In the early 1990s, I left the comfort of the classroom to become the dean of students at the law school on the campus of the University of California—Davis. Little did I know the stresses and conflicts that awaited me. Student after student came in and poured out his or her life troubles to me, partly because I already had the reputation of being approachable as a faculty member.

I felt I owed every student 100% of my time and effort, even if it meant skipping lunch or working into the night. I never said "no." Students asked for help with difficulties I had no training for. Some of them should have been at the counseling center (which is where I eventually sent them). This work was in addition to the many administrative tasks I'd taken on-supervising the financial aid, placement, and registrar's offices—to name just three.

After a few weeks on the job, I was utterly exhausted. I went home at night and sobbed to my husband that I'd made a terrible mistake.

But something else happened the same year I entered the Dean's Office. Four months after taking the job, I took a trip to Spirit Rock Meditation Center in Marin County for the first time. Two women I'd never heard of were leading a daylong retreat: Sylvia Boorstein and Sharon Salzberg. (Sylvia has written the Foreword to my book.)

By the end of the day, I was on a new path. I began going to Spirit Rock on weekends and reading every Buddhist book I could get my hands on. Most of them I took out of the main library on the U.C. Davis campus. In one of the books, I found this story from the ancient Buddhist texts:

One day the Buddha told a story about an acrobat and his assistant. The acrobat erected a bamboo pole and told his assistant to climb up it and stand on his shoulders. Then the acrobat said to his assistant: "Now you watch after me and I'll watch after you. This way we can show off our skill and come down safely from the pole."

But the assistant replied: "That won't do teacher. You watch after yourself and I'll watch after myself and in that way we can show off our skill and come down safely from the pole."

The Buddha said: "What the assistant said is right in this case because when one watches after oneself, one watches after others."

This story had a profound effect on how I approached the dean of student's job. I realized that to do my best for the students, I had to watch after myself, even if it sometimes meant saying "no" or "not now." And so, I began the work that continues to this day of mindfully assessing whether what I'm about to say or do is not just true, kind, and helpful to others but is true, kind, and helpful to myself.

No offense, as there are no doubt plenty of genuinely "enlightened" Buddhists, but it has been my experience, in western culture anyway, that Buddhism also seems to attract a lot of folks of the "narcissistic" persuasion. And I don't say this lightly, having been married to a woman who was eventually clinically diagnosed with NPD/BPD.

Although perhaps it's not so surprising to see the attraction of a belief system that emphasizes "navel-gazing" self-absorption, moral & spiritual "specialness", and as mentioned, conspicuously avoids "boundaries". And most significantly among the more narcissistic Buddhists I've encountered, I've rarely ever heard mention of that most essential of Buddhist principles, Compassion (aka, empathy).

To be fair, any religion or faith can be "re-purposed" to suit the unique needs of a narcissist. But IMHO, there's a difference between being just another version of "it's all about ME!", and the Dalai Lama's famous statement that "my religion is simple, my religion is kindness."

We must hang out in different Buddhist circles because the Buddhists I know emphasize compassion as the most essential practice one can cultivate. In my book, I quote teachers such as Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron who have made compassion the centerpiece of their teachings. I don't doubt your comment that the Buddhists you've encountered have been of the "narcissistic persuasion," but it just doesn't coincide with my experience. Warmly, Toni

Agreed that all politics (and experience) is ultimately "local". And as I mentioned, am not suggesting that all western Buddhists are narcissists by any means... only that IMO, certain aspects of Buddhism seem to be very attractive to them, especially in American (and California!) culture. This is also not a new idea, as others, including the Dalai Lama, have specifically pointed to the dangers of individualism and narcissism in Buddhist practice. And BTW, simply saying, "well, I don't know anyone like that", seems to me little different than mainstream Christians who just ignore their more extremist (and narcissistic) Fundamentalist brethren. Indeed, aren't we all "our brothers keeper" (or as Buddhism teaches, "I am my brother")?

I think part of the narcissim you notice is what happens anytime you get people in who take any faith and tailor it to mirror themselves rather than work on themselves to fit the faith's teachings. Westerners in California have been doing this with Eastern religions in California (where I was born) for a long time both willfully trying to find a everything goes counterpart to the monotheistic faiths, and out of plain ignorance. Fundamentalists in Christianity do this because , well, it'ss easier to be black and white and Old testimaent thatn to L"Love the Lord wot all they heart and with all they sould and with all they mind and wih all they trength and to love they neighbor as thy self." To do that, YOU have to change a heck of a lot, not just follow a set of rules. In both cases, a narcisist will gravitate to those extremes, because they both put him or herself and their comfort in the center. Not the faith, and not change.

My husband and I are sitting together tonight having yet another discussion about how the people we know in our circle who call themselves Buddhists (very loudly and unrelentingly) are the most narcissistic people we know. One in particular is the single least compassionate person I have ever met. We decided to do a web search to see if there were other people feeling the same and came across this thread. Thank you for helping us feel as though we are not alone in thinking Buddhism = narcissism. Not in all cases, of course, just in the few Buddhists we know. I would love to give examples of this complete lack of empathy/compassion, but I'm afraid this might give away who these people are should they stumble upon this page. Anyway, thank you!!

I am a therapist, and just discontinued my own therapy with a therapist who is a renowned Buddhist leader. My issues were of the co-dependent variety which clouded my rational judgment about interviewing him ahead of time. He was/is clearly a narcissist - no empathy. I do not blame the Buddhism for this, but the dynamic of the guru. Regardless of the denomination, spiritual leaders may see themselves as "compassionate" from afar - intellectually, theoretically - and can feel "useful", which narcissists need to be, by providing answers to a group. Such leaders cannot connect in any significant way to real weakness or pain in an individual, however, nor support that person in finding their own answers. Gurus should remain gurus, and leave the therapy to those of us who actually care.

I have met a few buddhist narcissists. They were quite anxious and easily depressed (or were before finding buddhism). I could see that it genuinely helped them in several ways...yet I felt they connected less well as friends after that. Because they were less needy but also mentally more mechanical although they would deny this. Non-attachment might lead to inner peace but can also amount to neglect of others' emotional needs. It was not much different between them and my born again Christian brother who only sold his religion in conversation for many years. There can be a strong obsessive compulsive engagement to finding religion for those prone to it. Being in the present moment hopefully makes one flexible but it could mistakenly lead to mindless detachment in the bad sense, not caring about what is going on. For some buddhists, this seems to be the goal. Those practicioners seem to believe that if we all detach from ordinary reality, the world will be better off. I don't believe this can be true.

Detachment (as oppose to acceptance and equanimity) carries aversion with it. Aversion is the flip side of desire -- it's the same thing but it's the "don't want" side of desire. "I don't want to be engaged with the world." And so, it's a source of suffering as is all of this type of self-focused desire. People tend to confuse equanimity -- accepting with grace your life as it is for you at the moment -- with detachment or resignation. But they are very different. One leads to peace and the other to suffering. That's my understanding of the Buddha's teachings. I write a lot about this in my new book: How to Be Awake: A Buddhist-Inspired Guide to Navigating Joy and Sorrow. But it won't be out until next Fall!

Thank you so much for this and all the comments too. I realize I am not alone in this. After dating a Buddhist on and off for four-five years who was very much involved on and off in going to retreats, had a teacher, and had earned a degree in Buddhist Psychology, I was appalled. Very, very appalled. This was a man who uses Buddha as part of his performance name as well. He acted lecherous around younger women the age of his daughter (as I was told) though he convinced me they were all rumors. I couldn't figure out why he seemed to lack empathy and presence at times with me. I remember writing in my journal early on that I couldn't figure out if he was just too stoned, too self-absorbed, or too Buddhist. This now makes me laugh a bit as after reading these comments, I can see how certain practices within Buddhism can cause one to become very self-absorbed to the point where they don't see the boundaries where they end and others begin. Or perhaps where they can dismiss the importance of another's reality as it is being related to them?

In the end, I decided he was a narcissist and he did one of the most tactless and hurtful things to me around the holidays before breaking up with me - admitted the relationship had been over for him months ago though he never told me. He would stare at other women in front of me when out during meals and then yell at me that it was all in my head if I told him it bothered me. I started to think I was losing my mind and it was me. He could never use an "I" statement in an argument or say how he felt about anything. If he was angry, it usually came out passive aggressively in some really coldly calculated fashion. When I was sick with a pneumonia, he was totally absent when I needed help. And yet everyone else in town put him on a pedestal due to his involvement in the music scene and all he does for people and his friends. But as one who was in a relationship with him, I realized he really mostly strung me along for a number a years, not caring that I wanted a more committed relationship and he didn't.

I was confused because he alternated great kindness and caring with great cruelty and indifference - having no compassion for all the challenges I had going on in my life. He lied often and easily to get his own way or to avoid disclosing any vulnerable part of himself. He was vulnerable here and there and I truly believed it was sincere, but he seemed to need a lot of ego control over things and ran from gig to gig as if his life depending on it at nearly 60 years old. I never heard him talk about meditation very much at all or Buddhism really. Just once in a while. In the end he said he was too busy to meditate. I now think he went through all this because he was trying to learn empathy possibly or he did have spiritual curiosity. But what I learned is that just because someone hangs something on their wall, it doesn't mean they've understood it.

I am very thankful that this experience did not turn me off to Buddhism as I am now really getting interested in it a year or so after this relationship. I try to have compassion for narcissists, but it's still hard after all I went through over it. I really really loved this man and was not perfect either but even though I was getting help for my side of the problem and was doing everything he said he'd like me to do, he still did what he did when further honesty and vulnerability on his side were required. My old therapist said that many sociopaths are attracted to the dharma and that it's a rouse. I would not say he was a total sociopath, however. I would be hard pressed to go around calling myself Buddha anything or even a Buddhist unless I felt I understood the teachings and was willing to live by them wholeheartedly.

Wow! I read your post and this man sounds very similar and he too is almost 60 at 59 right now. I really understand what you are saying because I feel the same way. He seems to understand that there is something missing within him and perhaps that's why he has jumped into Buddhism. He definitely seems to lack true feeling empathy. He does intellectual empathy very well and can say stuff like, "that must have been very difficult for you" but I never get the feeling from him that he truly feels and gets your pain. And yes what you said about running from one gig to the next. For him it was running from one personal growth thing to the next and he would not be truly vulnerable when it would be appropriate to be. I also have felt like he has been leading me on this whole time. Having experience with prior narcissists I saw some of the traits in him, but it wasn't until recently that a neuropsychologist that knows him confirmed what my gut was telling me. I was on a roller coaster ride with this man. One minute he would say his feelings for me were growing deeper and deeper.... then every few months he would tell me that he's not sure he wants to be in a relationship, not sure he wants a girlfriend, doesn't know if he wants me. So we'd break up for a bit and then he'd say he wants to try again. I was often jerked around. But like you said he could be so sweet and say the nicest things but then turn on a dime and be awful. When we first met he told me he might have his ex girlfriend from 10 yrs ago move in as a roommate. He honestly could not see a problem with this. I told him that I don't like that idea one bit. He still didn't understand why not. I finally said for him to get a reality check with one of his male friends which he said he did. So thankfully she didn't move in.
I also suspect that he kinda trolls some of the yoga and meditation groups looking for NS (narcissistic supply)from women. These narcissists can really mess up your head. And Buddhism is the perfect cover since they advocate compassion and caring for others. Thanks for you post. Nice to know I'm not alone in falling for a Buddhist narcissist.

Hi - I am sorry you went through something similar. I have come to believe after knowing his man and a high-conflict female friend (who manipulates and steals for personal gain) and who has been very much into yoga and meditation for many years, that personality disorders (as they are termed by Western psychology and which I would just call lack of empathy or deep down bad character via deep early wounding) do not respond readily to many spiritual practices. They may want to, but until they are totally honest within themselves about their own character and how it is affecting others, I don't see how they can live in two worlds with any real impact.

As many people have said, all religions contain a diverse array of personalities.

Buddhism, however, seems more sophisticated, relaxed, and peaceful than other religions, so narcissistic Buddhists stand out... and are also more able to use it as a shield.

Buddhism seems to appeal to narcissists who know they have a problem. But the trouble is, it seems to also let them off the hook easy.

Buddhism tells us "Attachments to other human beings are bad." Non-narcissists read that as "Human nature is to be attached, but you should cling to people as little as possible."

Narcissists read that as "When I hurt other people, it's just because I'm trying to practice non-attachment,and other people get attached to me." I think that narcissists who recognize their own harmful attachments tend to see Buddhism's ideas about attachment as a free pass: they read it as "we're all flawed, and we all need to let go, so I don't have a problem."

Non-narcissists see meditation as a compliment to the rest of their lives. Narcissists see it as a way to feel good and holy despite whatever they do with the rest of their lives.

Non-narcissists interpret the serene satisfaction they feel at the end of meditation as a good feeling that helps them to get on with their lives. Narcissists feel a similar serene satisfaction, but think, "I feel great, therefore I deserve to feel great, therefore I am great."

Other Buddhists want to live more peacefully and they use the religion to help themselves with that. Narcissists may want to live more peacefully, too, but their problem is that they don't live peacefully at all. They live violently, and they use Buddhism to hide that.

You can make the same argument about many religions (that the mentally ill need it the most and so they become the most visible followers). But, sadly, this seems to become more apparent in Buddhism. It's hard to say why, but I think it's because it's a smaller religion, and also because it's a religion that so directly addresses mental health. If Christianity is marijuana for a narcissist, Buddhism is crack.

I didn't put this into words as well as you have, but after dealing with the above narcissist I mentioned, this is what I always wondered and considered eventually - that Buddhism for narcissists allows them to get away with hurting people further because they can easily have permission to detach and let an experience of hurting another float on by as general, impermanent phenomenon. And thus, they never see the long-lasting trauma they may cause emotionally.

Buddhist practice is not about detachment. In my books and some of my articles here, I write about the four brahma viharas or "awakened states." One of them is equanimity and is considered by many to be the closest we can get to complete peace and freedom. Each of the brahma viharas has, what's called its "near enemy." And so, for example, the near enemy of compassion is pity.

The near enemy is a mental state that we have to keep mindful of so that our practice doesn't drift in that direction. Well, the near enemy of equanimity is indifference. Indifference is the same as detachment. It carries aversion with it—a pushing away of life as it is (which includes relationships with others).

By contrast, a person who is equanimous accepts things as they are, without resistance and without aversion. This acceptance includes the many inevitable unpleasant experiences that we'll all have in life. A mind that is equanimous rides life's ups and downs with steadiness and acceptance. Part of doing that is reaching out to ease suffering in ourselves and others. Buddhism is not passive—the essence of the Buddha's teaching was "the end of suffering" and so to practice correctly, we must always be looking for ways to ease the suffering of others as well as ourselves.

It's reassuring to see that you include the easing of suffering of others in your teachings. I'd assumed that it was at the true heart of the religion; it's just that all of us on this forum have had experiences with so-called practitioners who disregard it.

Buddhism is a decentralized, non-hierarchical religion that doesn't reject people... and it seems that this, unfortunately, results in it being hijacked by narcissists. Typically, when there's some sort of absence of authority, they manage to worm their way in.

People who are new to the Buddha’s teachings often don’t realize that there is not one entity called Buddhism. There are dozens of different schools, such as Theravadin, Tibetan, Zen, Pure Land, Nichiren, and Secular Buddhism. They’ve been evolving for thousands of years and the tenets of one school aren’t always consistent with the tenets of another.

Some schools consider Buddhism to be a religion, others see it as a spiritual practice, and still others as a philosophy of life. I see the Buddha as a master psychologist because he understood the human condition and he figured out how the mind creates suffering and freedom from it.

I have a new book coming out and I consider it about the Buddha's teaching…not Buddhism. It's called “How to Wake Up” and is about how to awaken to what we do that makes us unhappy, and how to awaken to a peace and well-being that aren’t dependent on whether a particular experience is joyful or sorrowful.

Yes, I know there are various schools under the umbrella of Buddhism. The reason I am mostly interested in is the "master psychologist" aspect of it and working with the mind. My yoga practice has helped me with some of this but I would like a more direct experience of understanding through language as well as the body and a more subtle sense of understanding. I very much look forward to your book. As of now, I am reading Reggie Rays book, "The Indestructible Truth," and am getting quite an education on how the various forms Buddhist schools evolved in various places.

I resonate with what you said about finding peace within that does not rely on whether an experience is painful or joyful. Those states are temporary anyway. Though I realize this, sometimes I am mired in them one way or the other due to over-stimulation or hormonal shifts. After a number of traumatic experiences over my life, I would love to learn how to see my mind better and how it creates.

I don't know that I'd say Buddhism is my religion, but it's something I've studied and practiced for about 15 years. I personally haven't known many Buddhists besides a former professor, so I've mainly experienced other Buddhists from things I've read and videos I've watched (teachers like Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron).

I'm sorry to hear about people's experiences with Buddhists and I can understand how it might attract Narcissists. I think some people use spirituality/religion in a way that can be self-serving and make them feel "special" or important in a sense. To me, that's missing the point of Buddhism and I think it's crucial to avoid any teachers that make it all about them or if they act like they're holy, so to speak. The Buddha was just a man and always said to test things out for yourself and not just buy into something. Teachers like Pema also warm of not using Buddhism to escape from the world.

For me personally, practicing Buddhism hasn't made me "better" and I definitely don't feel like I'm a better person than anybody else. What it has done is to let me be more aware of when I get hooked on something, like judging someone, or any emotions like anger or jealousy. I'm very aware of my ego when it takes over in that second and I can stop and just sit with the feelings I have. Instead of getting mad and feeling like I have to tell someone off or thinking I have to say or do something to "win" or be right, I stop. I see my ego and I realize how ridiculous it is because this person I'm judging or being angry at just wants to be happy the same way that I do. They too have a past, have a million different thoughts going on and they have their ups and downs. Even if I feel slighted, I think of all the things that might have gone on in their day that made them respond to me in the way they did.

When this happens, I feel like I genuinely care about this person whether I know them or not. I don't want to get even or hurt them. My ego stops being the driving force behind my behavior.

I still make mistakes and I don't think I'm ever going to be perfect, but I know that I care about other people and my goal in life is really about growing as a person and doing as much good as possible. Every day I make a coscious effort to not be all about myself and my desires.

While I love other people, I also try to practice non-attachment. This doesn't mean I'm distant from people. One scenario I heard was imagine drinking from a beautiful crystal glass. This glass seems to sparkle and seems so elegant. One day though, this glass will break. There's no way around that. Rather than being upset now and not wanting to drink from the glass and avoiding using it, you just having to appreciate it for what it is now in this moment, remembering that it's already broken.

It's hard for me to keep that in mind because I do get attached to my friends, jobs, pets, etc. just as I always have. I get sad when things change. But I work on letting things come and go freely without trying to cling too hard and in the meantime I'm very very grateful for everyone and everything in my life.

You and I see Buddhist practice the same way! This was such a pleasure to read. In fact, in my book "How to Be Sick" I write about what I call "Broken Glass Practice"! The idea came from the Thai forest monk, Ajahn Chah, whose teachings have been so inspiring to me…he's in both my books.

The "Broken Glass Practice," is useless without compassion, but narcissists practice precisely that - they treat people as if they're already broken, which gives them a good excuse to not treat others with compassion.

If you are a person who is afraid to buy yourself glassware because it might break (metaphorically and literally speaking), the Broken Glass Practice will probably make you a better person.

But if you are a careless, selfish person who knocks over all of your friends glassware and doesn't care (metaphorically and literally speaking), the Broken Glass Practice will likely just give a boost to your least compassionate characteristics.

What I forgot to add is that I've read further and seen that the Dalai Lama has really made attempts to address this very problem that we discuss, and I think that it's a step in the right direction.

The truth is, there are many reasons that I'm attracted to Buddhism, but the number one thing that keeps me away is the narcissists. Even if you don't get close to them, they are still draining to be around. It often feels like they've taken over Western Buddhist communities, and that's why I stay away- I'd rather deal with my problems by hanging out with a bunch of sad drunks in a bar than hang out with a bunch of narcissists.

And I don't even particularly like hanging out with sad drunks in a bar- in theory, I'd rather go to a Buddhist temple. It's just that all the white, western narcissists successfully scare me away.

People who practice Buddhism are like people you can find anywhere - they come in all different types and personalities, well and mentally unwell, etc. I will say, however, that it does seem too often that people in Buddhist circles approach it as a "self help" guide, and never transcend this stage to the next level which calls for one to love others as they love themselves (same as Christians). The Buddha's life was one of service to others, and his teachings focus on healing and ending suffering - in ourselves and THEN the world around us. Of course, people with deep seated personality disorders probably can't do that too well no matter what path they walk. But there are plenty of other Buddhists who do. That said, I do find Buddhism in the United States a bit short on charity practices. Buddhism in this country is very young, and hopefully as it matures so will its ability to do outreach to the poor, the sick, the elderly and so on. For me personally, my 5 years of Buddhist practice have been essential in providing me with the tools to live a happier and more peaceful life. But I also attend Quaker meetings because there I find a depth of love and concern and community that just doesn't seem to be present in the Buddhist sanghas. I don't, however, blame anyone or Buddhism for this. Each has it's place.

Not-self (anatta) is one of the key concepts of Buddhism across the many schools. Also across a wide array of schools, loving-kindness (metta),compassion (karuna), empathetic joy (mudita) and equanimity (uphekkha) are considered to be among the highest virtues. The Buddhist path as I understand it is actually, in fundamental ways, about getting over yourself. Attachment to self (also known as "self-view" or sakkaya ditthi) is considered one of the biggest obstacles to awakening, and it is understood to be a source of suffering. The deeper the practice goes, the more this becomes apparent. There are narcissists in my life, but over time I have come to see that just below the surface of narcissism, there is suffering. On my good days, when I am mindful enough not to be triggered by longstanding patterns, I feel love and compassion for them.

Yes, after getting some distance from pathology in my life and/or observing myself before I get hooked in to it and can identify with it on some level, I feel much more compassion than I used to be able to. Time has helped, though contemplating it was causing me confusion and suffering for a while. Attachment was part of my suffering.

I googled the terms narcissist and Buddhist and this popped up. I'm not surprised. As a matter of fact, I'm amused, not at all at anyone suffering,but in seeing that this is for real.

My sister was diagnosed with severe auto immune diseases about 5 years ago. This made me feel sad knowing she was in a great deal of pain.

She copes , in part, with 'Buddhist' stuff. And the results are amusing and horrific. Her vanity has compounded exponentially, her compassion is always wrapped up with strings attached and she is very calculated in all her endeavors.

I think she has no idea of how destructive she is. Reminds me of Jan on TBN. So, what I'm left with is a feeling of WTF?

I think everyone is a narcissisti to some extent. It's just when you come to a place where you're telling people you live in a manor house and have Hundreds of acres of forest and you take a million pics of yourself to put on FB and command me to email them to you, and hijack your cousins cancer by determining who she keeps in touch with that it becomes, simply put, way too much for me to want to deal with. Isn't family great?

The reason that Google came up with this site when you used those two words is not because of anything in I wrote about in the piece. It's because one of the commenters used the terms.

I hope you'll read over the comment I made in response to that comment (and perhaps others I've made to this piece). Buddhism and narcissism are not related, in fact, they contradict each other. There is nothing self-centered about true Buddhist practice. It emphasizes the interdependence of all beings and focuses on compassion for others. The self-centered desire that characterizes narcissism is a recipe for suffering and unhappiness, according to the Buddha.

I'm sorry to hear about your sister's illness. I wish you and her all the best.

I was struck by the entries of several people on this thread as being similar to my own experiences with a narcissistic relative who terms himself a Buddhist. This relative, who always had a self aggrandizing and inconsiderate streak, seemed to become way more narcissistic as he aged, and Buddhism (as he understood it) seemed to play a role in that. On numerous occasions he interspersed "I'm a Buddhist" with actions such as attacking my wife verbally when, during the course of a visit to my mother's home on the occasion of the death of my stepfather, my wife did not instantaneously obey his command to turn off a television program she was watching. This was about 90 minutes after his arrival, when he responded to a question about his travel plans with, "I'm here to serve", which I understood to be a Buddhist tinged thing to say.
I understand that Buddhism has been salutary for many people, but I agree with the idea that in a materially wealthy country such as ours, it may tend to attract narcissistic people and worsen their narcissism. Not that I assign to Buddhism the majority of the influence in my relative's case, but it did appear to be a factor.
Perhaps those who teach Buddhism in the context of our materially wealthy culture need to consider taking some precautions to minimize, to the extent feasible, the possibility that Buddha's teachings will be misappropriated in service of narcissistic psychopathology. One way to do this might be to point out with regularity in teaching here that narcissism may be engendered at times but is an erroneous or incorrect understanding of Buddhist Enlightenment.

" One way to do this might be to point out with regularity in teaching here that narcissism may be engendered at times but is an erroneous or incorrect understanding of Buddhist Enlightenment."

Exactly! That might be the true solution. I know that the true teachings of Buddhism are about reducing harm to others, not just in "letting things go." But, the fact is, that misinterpretation of the religion is what draws many Americans to it, and it is damaging.

I'm so happy to be blogging about my experience here. Part of my healing from this past relationship is about expressing myself - I believe that is the personal lesson I must learn from this, if I were to fully consider my buddhist practice. I look back on the last 16 months and two things stand out as the primary aspects of the situation. CONFUSION and BLAME.

I want in particular to speak to anyone in a gay relationship, as, in my experience, they are the same dynamic as a straight relationship. And in fact, I am feminine and my love interest was more masculine. She did not fit the classic beauty obsessed or attractive narcissistic woman I read about in literature. However, SEDUCTION and CHARM was extremely present. She has a fantastic smile which out-shined the fact that she was obese AND, she claims, sober. She drank for 33 years and was abstinent only 3 years with no formal recovery program other than her "buddhism."

I was 49 and fell under the spell of her charm and the way she made me laugh through a break-up of another relationship of 8 years. I look back and see that I was acting out my fears and unmet needs with her, not to mention a general codependency even after 25 years of recovery and a strengthening buddhist practice.

There were red flags from the beginning: Her professed love for me, although it never included action on her part to even offer to help me move into my new residence. She had me convinced that she lived the life of a poor artist who didn't have two pennies to rub together, yet would let me know that she was riding with some friends toward my town, an hour's drive, to play at the casinos (red flag). Sitting with her one day in her car listening to her very closely, I started to here the contradictions in her, which were many. I had to listen very carefully.

But still, I surrendered again and again to her charm, and I made a lot of excuses for her contradictory and inconsistent behaviors. Her history was non-existent. All her past relationships were "lovely" and ended in her being their "dear friend." She often let me know that she had NEVER experienced some of my "combativeness", in comparison with all her harmonious relationships of the past (red flag). She did let slip out she has had a history of relating to women in crisis and that they were crazy and messed up (red flag). She was often their rescuer - I see now that she may hone in on crises to gain an upper hand from the beginning.

I never asked for more information about her past, because I sensed she wouldn't tell me anyway. Or I would not get the truth. She had plenty of shaming and blaming strategies for dealing with my expressed FEELINGS OF ANY KIND (I know now is INVALIDATION). I have since learned that BLAME IS THE GREATEST FALSE REFUGE and invalidation is very damaging to self esteem. Also, if she disapproved of my requests for attention or I had any frustration about her inconsistencies, she was the master of the SILENT TREATMENT. Her needs, being that she was a stressed out artist, came first.

When we were in the same room (which I can count on one hand!), she became critical of me in small ways and was very attached to me doing things her way (red flag). It was as if some angry part of her was unleashed. I was stunned that such a charming being could be so incredibly parental. She did not cherish me for who I was, although she was so comforting when I needed a shoulder to cry on. I have since learned to cherish myself first if I want someone else to do the same.

When the relationship turned intimate, she would immediately begin talking about living together (red flag). And the critical parent in her would grow larger. Essentially, she was like a buzz kill - the highs and lows at high speed, all in a matter of hours.

She rarely talked to me in person about anything significant, and her phone calls were very short. Most of her communication was by text (red flag). Very witty short bursts of communicating which really had no meaning on a personal level. And now she claims to be having a relationship with someone on Facebook (for 7 months and they have never been in the same room together).

What I have learned since, through many resources about narcissism online and via friends, she has NO discerning adult between the demanding charming child and the critical angry parent. She was fairly successful in her career pursuits, but seemed to have No rational, empathic adult which negotiates and regulates discomforts between the needy wounded child, "Id", and the controlling "Super Ego" in interpersonal relating with a lover. And she may never develop that. She is 52.

She resisted any form of help, from 12-step to therapy, accept buddhism. Her history is a big blank in terms of her ever seeking guidance. (no need to say another red flag)

I read a wonderful article by one self-professed narcissist and buddhist practitioner or meditator which helped me understand the appeal she may have had to buddhism. It could be a lone experience and comforting escape for someone who has narcissism. Although in buddhism, we take refuge to the buddha, dharma, and sanga, one does not have to engage in sanga - the community of buddhists with which we practice loving kindness. So I see how buddhism can be a trap for narcissists since the tendency is to retreat into fantasy when real life is too difficult and private meditation could bolster the idea that one is special or unique by sitting on a pillow vs. engaging with others in real life experiences. One could use meditation as a visualization to sooth any slights and emotional injuries.

Now, my only solution for having to see her in another shared community activity once a month is to say nothing. Listen carefully, but do not engage. Exclusion is best and actually condoned by Chogyam Trungpa in The Myth of Freedom's chapter on Negativity. So, I am healing still and learning still. And honoring my sadness when it arises. I hope this helps someone else.

I think it's possible that sometimes people who are the most afflicted by the suffering someone feels by being too competitive, envious, jealous, and self-absorbed (narcissists, for example) would more actively seek out a way of thinking/being that promises to help them shed the mindset that is causing them such grief. In other words, if I had shared the experience of feeling like I knew many narcissistic Buddhists, I would wonder if their own misery caused by their own behavior was what drove them to a philosophy like Buddhism in the first place.

At least, I know that's true for myself. My own competitiveness and envy and other issues were what made me want to explore Buddhism in the first place... to try to change my ways. I'm very far from perfect, but that doesn't mean I want to learn and grow and improve.