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well, freedom is not free. The freedom to drive a truck is now over $4 per gallon. The freedom to have a "market" based medical care system is costing us twice as much as in other industrialized nations. or we can have the freedom to not worry about medical bankruptcy at half the current cost, or the freedom to save half of our money, or.. etc..

freedom is not free, just need to pay for it. some people pay for it with money, some pay with blood, some pay with lives, some pay with other people's money, and some pay with other people's lives

well, freedom is not free. The freedom to drive a truck is now over $4 per gallon. The freedom to have a "market" based medical care system is costing us twice as much as in other industrialized nations. or we can have the freedom to not worry about medical bankruptcy at half the current cost, or the freedom to save half of our money, or.. etc..

freedom is not free, just need to pay for it. some people pay for it with money, some pay with blood, some pay with lives, some pay with other people's money, and some pay with other people's lives

And now we get to pay even more. Hallelujah! Can I get an "amen" brothers?

yeah, we might end up paying even more. But it is good to see serious efforts are being made. I see a good start. Someone is seriously trying

If you mean "might" like, "the sun might come up in the east tomorrow" then yeah, we're on the same page. Obamacare is already predicted to cost multiples of what Barry claimed and it's barely getting started. So tell me again why I should be so ecstatic about paying more?

Imagine a person so poor they can not afford healthcare. Imagine this person is slowly dying and needs expensive healthcare to live and with it could live a long life. They are forced to buy it but, can not pay so they don't.Food and shelter come first. The government takes a dying person and makes them a criminal and then charges them an $8000 fine to rub it in.

Imagine a person so poor they can not afford healthcare. Imagine this person is slowly dying and needs expensive healthcare to live and with it could live a long life. They are forced to buy it but, can not pay so they don't.Food and shelter come first. The government takes a dying person and makes them a criminal and then charges them an $8000 fine to rub it in.

Making Euthanasia bombers?

Part of obamacare is expanding medicaid access, to close the overlap for people who are too poor to afford heathcare but too rich for medicaid. There are also sliding-scale subsidies for people who make yet more money but still not a lot.

Anyway, I'm sort of confused about what you're trying to say with your scenario. The real answer to that situation, where "this person is slowly dying and needs expensive healthcare to live and with it could live a long life" is to provide them with goddamned healthcare whether they can afford it or not.

Edit: what I think is funny about the whole healthcare debacle, is that for the most part people like the policies involved, but hate the whole thing anyway.

If you mean "might" like, "the sun might come up in the east tomorrow" then yeah, we're on the same page. Obamacare is already predicted to cost multiples of what Barry claimed and it's barely getting started. So tell me again why I should be so ecstatic about paying more?

Well, I was talking about the over all cost of our medical care system. I never mentioned anything about the "prediction". Like I said nothing is free. A cheaper medical care system is not free, either. The cheaper system in other nations is obtained through higher taxes. You can have the freedom for a lower tax, just need to pay for that freedom with higher medical cost. or you can have the freedom to cheaper medical care, and pay for that freedom with higher taxes. It is certainly not "the sun might come up in the east tomorrow" for the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA) to lower our medical care cost. Well, I said "might" about something has not happened. I think you should also do the same thing.

Originally Posted by eskachig

Part of obamacare is expanding medicaid access, to close the overlap for people who are too poor to afford heathcare but too rich for medicaid. There are also sliding-scale subsidies for people who make yet more money but still not a lot.

Anyway, I'm sort of confused about what you're trying to say with your scenario. The real answer to that situation, where "this person is slowly dying and needs expensive healthcare to live and with it could live a long life" is to provide them with goddamned healthcare whether they can afford it or not.

Edit: what I think is funny about the whole healthcare debacle, is that for the most part people like the policies involved, but hate the whole thing anyway.

The PPACA is only focusing on how to pay for medical care, but it does not address the core problem with our system. The core problem is that there are too many middlemen between patients and health care providers. These middlemen do not work for free, they are in it to make a profit. The profit they make is the "extra" money we pay in healthcare. That is the bottom line. PPACA may contain the rise of health care cost, but I am skeptical of if it can lower the cost or not.

Part of obamacare is expanding medicaid access, to close the overlap for people who are too poor to afford heathcare but too rich for medicaid. There are also sliding-scale subsidies for people who make yet more money but still not a lot.

Anyway, I'm sort of confused about what you're trying to say with your scenario. The real answer to that situation, where "this person is slowly dying and needs expensive healthcare to live and with it could live a long life" is to provide them with goddamned healthcare whether they can afford it or not.

Make them buy it when they can't. What does "can't" mean? NO MONEY TO BUY IT. You make no sense. Intentions mean nothing. They do not have money. They can not be forced to buy anything without money. So charge them more? In a fine? And make them a criminal.

You really think that is going to help anyone?

How is that "providing them with goddamned healthcare" as you say? Whether they can afford it or not? Listen to yourself.

Well, I was talking about the over all cost of our medical care system. I never mentioned anything about the "prediction". Like I said nothing is free. A cheaper medical care system is not free, either. The cheaper system in other nations is obtained through higher taxes.

I'm sorry but how is more money out of my pocket than I'm paying now cheaper for me?