Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by oxxo

Pillars does show who knows how to play their class.

No obstacles = huge advantage for classes such as hunters.

You have extremely flawed logic.

M8 like Pillars are helping in something, tauren warrior can hit u even behind pillars , also hunter can shoot u behind pillar, ffs hunter can shoot u over three in AV , charge in blade's edge arena aslo is fucked have seen warriros charge if some1 is on the side ramp and the warrior is on middle of the bridge Blizzard should fix those buggs with shooting and casting behind walls, also they should fix shadowstep it bugged sometimes doesnt work. And yes arena isnt balansed but its a game and if u know to play u can get hight rating but the problem here is the damn que its long and the opponents u get, have seen on 1500rating opponents with full vengafull gear that shouldnt suppose to happened those guys shound be allowed to enter low rating arena. Boosting should also stop ppl for 2-3k gold boost ppl to get gear that bull shit.

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Dsswoosh

Its actually incredibly easy to balance arena. All you need to do is take away the imbalances. Heres how -

1) Make arena compulsory to be 9v9 consisting of one of every class - now you have a balanced mirror match every fight
2) Force a standard set of gear - now everyone has the same statistics
3) Force a standard spec for each class - now everyone is equal in terms of talents
4) Get rid of the resist, miss, partial resist and crit mechanics - therefore eliminating the "luck" factor

Would this make arena fun? - maybe, but then again maybe not
Would people bother playing if gear wasnt there as a reward? - maybe, maybe not
Is this is the tradition of an MMO? - maybe, maybe not.

So yeah, to make arena balanced you simply take awya the imbalances. Very simple to be perfectly honest.

Maybe you should have titled this thread

Impossible to balance classes.... which is what i think you really meant to say.

Think of arena as a chessboard -

With all the chess pieces, white versus black is an exact mirror match.
What would happen if chess suddenly became 3 pieces versus 3 pieces, where one side can have a queen, a knight and a bishop, and the other side could have 3 pawns. Not hard to see whos going to win is it? Arena is not very different to this example.

Blizzard are trying to balance pawns with queens to achieve balance if you use the chessboard as an example.

Simply put - Never going to happen. And i dont know why they try. All its doing is affecting PvE.

This is by far the best post i have seen here on mmo-champion in ages. Congrats!

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Perfectkill459

From reading and just being apart of the arena system since season 1, there has allwayse been an imbalanced team. The most noticed is a druid/warrior. 260% of the 2v2... now that is rediculous. I think their will never be a balanced arena.

Thoughts?

I gotta say that it's good that we even got this good balance. It could be a lot worse...

What comes to the "impossible to balance arena" -question, yes it's propably true. There will always be counter setups to your teams and as we get higher, and higher in ranking there will most likely be a team-setup that stands out better than the others. Wonder what it is when the Lich King expansion comes...

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by DressdtoKill

Who knows how to play their class?! Arena has become nothing but chasing ppl around poles...are you fuckin kidding me, and with obstacles you give a huge advantage to the other classes....and have me a lock, with no faster run moves, no escape moves, no nothing desperateing trying to catch a healer around a pole while trying to use mana drain in a boring as shit SL/SL spec I'm forced to use because arena is so balanced that all melee weapons reck me without it. Meanwhile the rogue/warr who is right behind me is at a 90 degree angle from me on the pole and continues to hit me while I am LoSed by the healer to the point where I can't even cast an instant DoT.

If their were no poles, they'd be forced to out range ppl instead...while remaining in sight and having their partner keep you off of them, instead of taking advantage of LoS bullshit tricks that fucks over all ranged/caster classes.

I'm sorry, arena is fuckin gay, 10 min matches of running around a pole mana draining a healer...yeah who ever's bright idea it was to fashion arena like that needs to be beaten senseless...

can't agree more. If healing is going to be so BS in this game and drastically outdo DPS then either take out the LOS bs, or make people have to stop for a short period of time to cast. Although it doesn't solve it, it makes it a little more intresting. Honestly. Running around something and being able to cast on the run for more than anyone can cast on the run for dps is fucking retarted.

Truth of the matter is, something needs to be done about healers pole humping in arena.ok you say, hunters and other dps will have their way in open combat? Ok so it's ok for you healers to be untouchable the other way? Stupid excuse. How about we have 4 arena's, 2 with open combat and 2 with pole humping, even the field for healers and dps.

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by DressdtoKill

Who knows how to play their class?! Arena has become nothing but chasing ppl around poles...are you fuckin kidding me, and with obstacles you give a huge advantage to the other classes....and have me a lock, with no faster run moves, no escape moves, no nothing desperateing trying to catch a healer around a pole while trying to use mana drain in a boring as shit SL/SL spec I'm forced to use because arena is so balanced that all melee weapons reck me without it. Meanwhile the rogue/warr who is right behind me is at a 90 degree angle from me on the pole and continues to hit me while I am LoSed by the healer to the point where I can't even cast an instant DoT.

If their were no poles, they'd be forced to out range ppl instead...while remaining in sight and having their partner keep you off of them, instead of taking advantage of LoS bullshit tricks that fucks over all ranged/caster classes.

I'm sorry, arena is fuckin gay, 10 min matches of running around a pole mana draining a healer...yeah who ever's bright idea it was to fashion arena like that needs to be beaten senseless...

I play a lock myself, and had 493 resilience. Deleted all my pvp gear yesterday. What you describe is mostly a warlock issue, hence why i retuired from pvp and now leave him as pve only.

I suggest you do what i did and level a rogue for pvp (or go warr or hunter or w/e).

Ive played lock for 2 years, and well, pvp is such zzzzz. sl/sl is 99% the only option. 2v2 is utter boredom. 5v5 is utter madness switching between targets like a headless chicken making sure all ur curses are up. Every situation your left standing still on the spot with crippling poison on you tanking 2 or 3 mellee dpsers who know that warlock is by far the easiest class to take down atm if they just stick on him like fly on sh*t.

Cant ever see myself missing arena on my warlock. And utterly glad i deleted all my pvp gear. So much pressure off now, just need 3 parts sunwell gear to complete my pve gear, and raids are totally fun in my guild, no respec costs, no "F***ING ROGUE GET OFF ME" stresses.

Pure bliss.

Now im the rogue killing locks in 5 seconds with my season1 gear, just like what used to happen to me, all the time knowing i have an and game geare lock, where i can actually cast shadowbolts and see the big numbers

edit - 4got to say this

i levelled a rogue bcoz i really wanted to see how easy they were to play. And well, so far rogue pvp is imbah compared to lock imo. I dont even have the pvp trinket and still have 100 ways to escape. Warlocks are 100% totally dependant on trinket to get out of everything.

And yes, rogue is way overpowered compared to lock. And for mages who complain about lock over powerness, as a rogue when i pvp, maghes are far harder to kill than locks, all the mage qq'ers just seem to take frostnova and blink for granted. (had to get the mage thing off my chest as mages QQ far too much about locks, and they simply ont have a clue)

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

warlocks aren't afraid of rogues... they are afraid of "undead" rogues...
anyone else they can easily scare them away... or throw that little green skull in their face telling them to back off so ur healer could do a little healing, and the lock could do a bit of lifetap...

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Turismon

can't agree more. If healing is going to be so BS in this game and drastically outdo DPS then either take out the LOS bs, or make people have to stop for a short period of time to cast. Although it doesn't solve it, it makes it a little more intresting. Honestly. Running around something and being able to cast on the run for more than anyone can cast on the run for dps is fucking retarted.

Truth of the matter is, something needs to be done about healers pole humping in arena.ok you say, hunters and other dps will have their way in open combat? Ok so it's ok for you healers to be untouchable the other way? Stupid excuse. How about we have 4 arena's, 2 with open combat and 2 with pole humping, even the field for healers and dps.

u want arenas without obstacles? lol...
5on5 would be dominated by 5 ele. shammies... or 5 pyros... or 5 hunters...
i'd bet on shammies and their poles... without obstacles... shammies would give new definition to "pole humping"...

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by fobenja

u want arenas without obstacles? lol...
5on5 would be dominated by 5 ele. shammies... or 5 pyros... or 5 hunters...
i'd bet on shammies and their poles... without obstacles... shammies would give new definition to "pole humping"...

At least shamans would have a use, instead of the the current role they have in arenas of simply being just plain bad.

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Skeetskeet

Aw let me guess you have a 1300 rating. L2P your class and spec better. And arena shouldn't be easy, learn to adjust your play. Not too hard to do "rly"

,

haha yeah im a big nub, nah in my opinion im not, i took my shadowpriest lock combo to 2k+ this season aswell and now im waiting for s4 and time to go serious again. and can tell that shadowpriest lock aint the most firendly combo to play atm. so i think i know pretty well what im talking about

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Skeetskeet

People should really learn how to play their classes. Every time someone says that a certain spec or class can't get high ratings, there seems to be people proving that wrong. Arenas are balanced, just learn to play your class and spec better.

I already know that I'm going to hear about Druids, Warriors and rogues. Yes a lot of people play them, but seriously how long are most of you going to use the excuse of them being OP? L2P

play a rogue
good
now play a SP
noticed the huge difference in effort to kill something?

Quote from: frosty on April 16, 2008, 07:36:31 PM
i have a spriest friend at 2.2k aswell, i dont know why alot of people regard spriests as being a weak class because they're not!

Because they dont assist.

If you leave 2 melee on 1 sPriest he will die, but if someone can take one of them off he will do just fine and deal good dmg.

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Janz

You sure play with awful SP's

I was exagerating a bit but still a rogue on a SP will stop 8 seconds of dps before being able to do anything (unless you pop trinket)
but
equal geared SP vs equal geared rogue = dead SP. Can't argue with that

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Cocidius

I was exagerating a bit but still a rogue on a SP will stop 8 seconds of dps before being able to do anything (unless you pop trinket)
but
equal geared SP vs equal geared rogue = dead SP. Can't argue with that

Nice point meight, as if druids hunters warriors warlocks shamans discpriests paladins (Don't even say bubble already on first stunlock) could do anything during that first stunlock either. Unless they pop trinket or waste idioticly their cooldowns to do so and then get freely pounded.

Re: Impossible to balance arena...

Originally Posted by Janz

Oh wait... how many classes actually do beat them in similar gear?

Mage

I think this is a stupid thread, (no offence) because Arena is meant to be imbalanced believe it or not
Its meant to be like this because it makes an Arena team think deep and hard about what classes they need in a Team to make it a good one. If all classes were "balanced" in your views it wouldnt matter what class you chose and would come down to less skill
By it being "unbalanced" it requires more skilled players to be able to succeed, instead of noobs that cant play and dont understand how PvP in Arena works

Fair points by Dsswoosh, yeah have 9v9, all same gear, talents etc. but that would be pointless, if everyone was the same it would mean arena would be depressing and no challenge, on my new Pally i encountered full S3 lunatics that destroyed my team instantly, but i didnt complain, why? Because i dont give a damn about balancing or shit, if you lose, you lose get over it.
If youre team constantly wins would you want your classes in your teams to be "balanced"?, no you wouldnt, so all you loser stop complaining and understand that it wont ever be balanced, and cant be balanced
Its not balanced so you require more skill to be able to win, not so that every things even, that takes away the challenge of winning and requires less skill