Bristol wants to be known for its green credentials, for the illusion of space in a busy city - and plenty of people I speak to say that they like the city because it feels more open, less locked into a grid. Optimising every route you could squeeze a bus along is the perfect way to spoil the place. BRT2 & BRT3 are being put forward because they are going to make lots of money for some people - they won't have much effect on peoples' daily commute. But they will spoil a historic green route into the centre of the city.

I know the 'it'll spoil something nice' argument isn't the official anti-BRT line. It's not a simple case of NIMBYism though, and it goes further than the arguments against wasting the work put in under the Cycling City banner. Those in charge of transport policy in the city have proven time and again that they haven't a clue what they're doing.

Apples and oranges - that's a really popular commuter route, Ashton Avenue seems to be more leisure users. Not that either of us have stood next to it and counted the user numbers, mind.

Do you really think people will not run or cycle along the river path because of a bus on a small bridge?

Yes, if it means more noise, more fumes, more user conflict (due to a narrowed carriageway), run-ins with service vehicles and a more convoluted journey. Not wanting to sound aggro, but your comments on here and the recent Sustrans path thread indicate that you haven't got the foggiest idea why people choose to use traffic-free cycle paths.

We're getting a bit hung up on the Chocolate Path and Ashton Avenue but this will certainly affect major commuter routes like Prince Street and Bristol Bridge too.

I'm also not sure why they're replacing a perfectly good Park & Ride.

Two reasons: the planned expansion of Long Ashton, and the need to be seen to be doing something about Bristol's horrible traffic, even if it turns out to be ineffectual.

Do you really think people will not run or cycle along the river path because of a bus on a small bridge?

No, of course not, but the crucial link across the river will become irrepairably reduced, possibly to the point where it is effectively unusable.

It isn't a big bridge, I doubt there is room for busses/guided tramways and non-motorised traffic side by side. So what we'll get is a u-turn on any assurances of continued access, or some hopeless traffic-light scheme. All, I'm sure, badly handled by Bristol City Council, renowned for awful project management and craven capitulation to the demands of any and every commerical operator. See FirstBus.

This is the only traffic-free route into the city from the south west. The scheme, quite apart from the bridge issue, is poorly conceived, expensive, and threatens to wreck a whole lot of good stuff.

This is speaking as someone who lives in Long Ashton, and would quite like to be able to get the 4 miles into the City Centre in under an hour during rush hour. Luckily for me, I'm able bodied and can ride a bike.

I'm also not sure why they're replacing a perfectly good Park & Ride.

If they put a bit of thought into the Park & Ride scheme, it would be much better. Only that is less exciting and makes less profits for all involved. It could also impinge on road space, which would elicit howls of protest, and require some political courage.

if it means more noise, more fumes, more user conflict (due to a narrowed carriageway), run-ins with service vehicles and a more convoluted journey

Exactly. If it was in the cause of a genuinely radical transport plan, I'd take the knock. As things stand, it's a badly-planned scheme of dubious benefit - hefty expenditure and minimal (if any) savings on existing journey times. And as for Prince Street bridge...

So what? Placing pedestrians and cyclists (and pushchairs and dogs... drop by there on a sunny weekend) in close proximity to buses still represents a clear loss in terms of safety - not to mention tranquility, emotive as that quality is. Any genuinely innovative transport plan would involve existing road infrastructure and reform of Brizzle's pish-poor bus provision - this ain't it.

I hope so - Prince st is a complete dog's breakfast

Then I suggest you have a good look at the BRT plans. The current dog's breakfast is unlikely to be improved by a large number of buses being routed over the Prince St bridge - it's going to be one hazardous intersection, that's for sure.

Has anyone officially looked at the fabric of the Ashton swing bridge? Because last time I looked at it there were rust holes in the structure that you could put your arm through! (arm sizes can go up and down, also it was a while back so it may have been sorted by now) It may have been built to a weight carrying spec many times your modern bus but I suspect the H&SE may ask for more than that and a coat of paint when you've got holes in the structures joints.
It wouldn't surprise me if it would be cheaper to stick a new bridge up next to it than effectively do a ground up restoration of a riveted construction 100 year old bridge. At which point you might as well put it in a more convenient place than be tied to that crossing point with all the political hassle that that is causing.
But then it wouldn't be a Bristol council idea if anyone was left happy at the end of the process!

I knew i was surrounded by singletrackers in Southville! Agreed on the OP, I use this every day, it will change the nice ride i have with my boy to the nursery before my Ashton Court - into town commute. Unfortunately i can see this happening, seems like the football will get their ground at some point and they've been busting to use these old tracks.

Only good thing i'd get out of it is a parking space on home games!!! Not worth it though.

Anyone still wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt should come along on Monday and talk to the members of Bristol Cycling Campaign who've just spent a week at the planning enquiry asking questions about the scheme and getting some highly unsatisfactory responses. It's being pushed through by people who don't give a rat's ass about cycling, or the majority of Bristol commuters.

Seems a great shame to send buses along the harbourside when it's such a popular area to stroll around and enjoy the city. Especially with all the effort that's gone into improving the area and the excellent M Shed.

Just thinking that if the impact of this scheme is publicised to non-cyclists it could boost the campaign to stop it.

No. Have a read of their website, they've pretty much covered everything, including the impact on the Harbourside. There are also some suggestions for alternative schemes that the cash could be spent on.

Interesting meeting last night. I went in expecting to see a bunch of familiar faces from local cycling groups, but it was a much broader mix of local residents and transport campaigners. In fact I think me and Noteeth were the only people there on account of cycling.

I hadn't appreciated what a half-baked scheme this whole thing is. It needs to be delivered by 2015, and they haven't even got the basics in place - no vehicles have been chosen, no operators appointed and there are loads of unanswered questions about the route. There is some really shoddy thinking going on with the predicted journey times.

It seems like Prince Street Bridge is going to end up being used all three BRT schemes if this goes ahead, which will make the current confusing setup seem like a gambol in a meadow by comparison. When it swings the buses will just have to queue up.

On Ashton Avenue Bridge, cyclists and pedestrians are apparently going to be herded onto a bolt-on gantry on the side of the bridge to keep them out of the way of the two-lane bus traffic. The brand new Festival Way cycle track (a nice quiet way to the trails) is going to become bus lane.

If the budget overruns it's highly likely to screw over the proposed metro rail network too.

It seems like a lot is going to hinge on the mayoral elections (a bit frustrating given that I'm a South Gloucs resident). Transport for Greater Bristol are organising a hustings, so are Lifecycle UK. If enough people go along to these and ask awkward questions then they may just get the message...

Likewise, I hadn't fully appreciated how awesomely bad an idea this is. What got me was the disparity between the speeds it's claimed the buses will travel at and the number of 90 degree bends they'll have to negotiate at somewhat less than warp speed. And yes, the bridge swings have been totally ignored by the planners.

At risk of agreeing with Mr Agreeable, this really does need Bristol locals contacting councellors / MPs / etc to say they don't want cowboys shitting a dodgy bus lane through historic Bristol under false pretences. Most of the people at the meeting seemed to live on the proposed route - which might lead to them being discredited as NIMBYs. I suspect if a greater number of people from around the city, many of whom don't know what BRT stands for, realised that there are plans to run buses through the harbourside there would be more public debate.

As wordnumb says, we definitely need to get this onto MPs', Local Enterprise Partnerships' and mayoral candidates' radars. I'm fairly sure many of them would not be supporting it if they had the warts and all briefing, instead of just the sales pitch.

Also very interested to discover the existence of Transport for Greater Bristol. I agree with pretty much every single one of their proposals for improving transport. http://www.tfgb.org.uk/manifesto.htm

Aye, utterly daft... supported only by a council desperate to spend allocated funding and consultants who sense a payday - & waved thru by politicos who seem to have no grasp of what they are agreeing to.

I know prospective candidates are inclined to be populist, but a fair number of 'em are against the scheme - not least because £50 million seems rather a lot of money to spend on re-routing some buses.

Good to hear chaps, good to hear. I'd be very sad if this went forward and would likely mean I would look to change where I live (i.e. out of Bristol) as the commute by bike is one of key draws for me.

Make it dangerous, and I'm less likely to want to risk life and limb to work in a busy city.

It seems like Prince Street Bridge is going to end up being used all three BRT schemes if this goes ahead, which will make the current confusing setup seem like a gambol in a meadow by comparison. When it swings the buses will just have to queue up.

On Ashton Avenue Bridge, cyclists and pedestrians are apparently going to be herded onto a bolt-on gantry on the side of the bridge to keep them out of the way of the two-lane bus traffic. The brand new Festival Way cycle track (a nice quiet way to the trails) is going to become bus lane.

Ok, you've convinced me. I might've swallowed it for the greater good, but that BRT is predicted to take a miniscule share of commuter traffic

Ransos and anyone else convinced by what Agreeable and No Teeth are saying - please write to your local councillors / MPs, or just to Bristol Council if you live out of the area. There are example letters to cut and paste from on the Stop BRT website.

Ransos and anyone else convinced by what Agreeable and No Teeth are saying - please write to your local councillors / MPs, or just to Bristol Council if you live out of the area. There are example letters to cut and paste from on the Stop BRT website.

I can't do that for reasons I won't go into here.

I did talk to the Sustrans chuggers by Ashton Ave last night. They didn't seem all that well informed about the plans, and told me that Sustrans' official position was neutral. I wonder if they'll change their stance once they become fully aware of the proposal details?