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Re: Colts-Bears

I still think the Colts coaches will try for wins during part of the season, then depending on how that goes it will determine how they approach the 2nd half of the season. Surprise some people and upset a couple of people, steal a couple of games, and things will be done a lot differently than if they are lucky to win a game or two in the first 8. Then I think they will take the traditional rebuild route and just take their lumps, press the system, and look for a very high draft pick.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

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Re: Colts-Bears

I could count on my hand the number of Colts games I've missed over the past decade or so, but this was one of them. I couldn't pass up a ticket to the BMW Championship at Crooked Stick. I caught a bit of the third quarter in the tent, but that's it. It looks like this was a pretty predictable result. We were never going to go up there and win this game. But next week is a good test at home against Minnesota. I think we have a chance at winning that game and I'll be disappointed if we don't compete.

Re: Colts-Bears

Gotta love the overreacting from the pacer/colts fans. Im just glad it goes both ways. This was the first game, on the road, against a very good playoff team. They will win 5-7 games easily due to the easy schedule.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

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Re: Colts-Bears

Lol, Luck will be fine, the sillyheads come out en masse after Sundays like this. The biggest issue with 90% of fans is they don't know how to look past stats and immediacy rather than context and skillsets. Luck has a stronger skillset than RG3... but he has a much worse team, specifically the O-line situation. Luck played a much tougher defense, also. RG3 has an actual running game. Put a rookie behind an awful o-line and make him throw against a top 3 defense, and without any semblance of a running game, on the road... and he's going to struggle. Put a different rookie behind a wall of an o-line, throwing against a very suspect pass defense, and also give him a good running game, and he's going to look like Dan Marino, even on the road.

That's the context... that's the reality.

Voila --- Colts blowout, Luck "struggles", and RG3 looks like the next coming after 1 week. Nothing against RG3, he did great, I've never said he wasn't going to be good, but I still don't believe for one second he's a better quarterback than Andrew Luck. Stick Luck on that same 'Skins team and the score would have been even more lop-sided, and you all know that.

Lemme make a lil prediction for ya this next week --- The Colts and Luck will look much better against the Vikes, but the 'Skins will smash the Rams because the Rams look awful, so the RG3 train will roll on. The 'Skins are 3X the team the Rams are. The Colts and Vikes are... even? I think Indy may be slightly better, but since the Colts faced a much harder opponent in week 1 and the Vikes beat the poopy Jags (who I think are worse than Indy), the Vikes have a win right now and the Colts do not, so therefore they are underdogs.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-10-2012 at 10:23 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Colts-Bears

I'd like to reiterate that Luck wasn't half bad in this game. 300 yards against that Bears' D basically from his back all game and with defenders draped all over him and an average of about .5 second to get a pass off with no help except Reggie Wayne is a more impressive offensive feat than RG3 directing traffic with that wall of an o-line, group of receivers and backs against a very suspect Saints' D. He moved the ball very effectively on a number of drives with a bunch of rookies and low-experience players. Four redzone appearances. Vinatieri missed a f'n FG, he threw a TD, he had another intercepted in the end zone. The score easily could have been a little different.

He made a rookie mistake in the endzone and threw the INT --- that was 1 foot from being a TD. He also had 1 ******** interception that should've been a Bears' offsides. He was a hair away from having a 2-1 TD/Int ratio today, to go with likely nearly 350 yards. Against that Bears' D. It was not a bad effort at all. He just learned a valuable lesson about the speed of the NFL --- he's gotta throw it harder. And he will. But the big issue today was that our overall team talent was exposed. We're a bunch of rookies and 2nd-teamers. What do you expect when we have $40 mill in dead cap space this year and underwent a complete top-to-bottom overhaul?

Been saying it all along --- it's not a logical comparison to make between Luck and RG3 this year, they have drastically different teams. Next year is when Indy will start to turn heads, that's when we'll have 1 year of experience under our belt, that $40mill in dead cap space comes alive, we'll have 1 more draft and this team will start to shape up. 6 wins tops this year, maybe not even that, that's what we're dealing with. 'Skins are a playoff team.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-10-2012 at 10:41 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Colts-Bears

I think most people knew that RG3 was going to have a pretty good season compared to Luck given the teams that they play on.

BTW I am still sticking to the prediction that RG3 gets himself hurt by the end of the year.

I'm still sticking to the prediction that RG3 is going to be better than Luck, RG3 just throws the ball way harder than Luck and is more athletic, Luck is still going to be good but RG3 has the potential to be the face of the NFL for a long time.

Re: Colts-Bears

Luck is the real deal. An impressive debut for having even less protection and fewer options to throw to than Peyton may ever have had in his career here.

With that said, the need for improvement of the line is so plain and so frustrating to watch that it has to wear on the players themselves. To know that the pocket will collapse more often than not, that passes will constantly be underthrown due to Luck having to throw across his body or off his back foot, or overthrown due to not being given the time to properly gauge the required distance / overcompensating for the anticipated hit, and to know that there is, as usual, no hope of a running game for balance must be devastating.

As the Colts improve this year, so will everyone else. If the Colts win more than a couple of games due to being overlooked on the schedule I will be shocked. Luck will need to go to a hurryup offense and make multiple big quick strike plays in a given game due to the relentless pressure that every team in the league will focus directly on him for the Colts to have any hope of winning any games, period IMO.

Re: Colts-Bears

I'm still sticking to the prediction that RG3 is going to be better than Luck, RG3 just throws the ball way harder than Luck and is more athletic, Luck is still going to be good but RG3 has the potential to be the face of the NFL for a long time.

Your judge of talent has never been top-notch, lol. Let's see... who's more flashy, charismatic, stat-based, and had the better game yesterday -- that's the guy vnzla is probly gonna go with. Just sayin'. Monta Ellis. Hoppin' on the RG3 wagon after yesterday is kinda lame, where were you before that when Luck outplayed him thoroughly all preseason?

Throwing the ball harder is for Jay Cutler, you know, that perennial SuperBowl winn--- Oh wait, he's Jay Cutler, he doesn't do **** with his rocket arm.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-10-2012 at 11:16 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Colts-Bears

I'd like to reiterate that Luck wasn't half bad in this game. 300 yards against that Bears' D basically from his back all game and with defenders draped all over him and an average of about .5 second to get a pass off with no help except Reggie Wayne is a more impressive offensive feat than RG3 directing traffic with that wall of an o-line, group of receivers and backs against a very suspect Saints' D. He moved the ball very effectively on a number of drives with a bunch of rookies and low-experience players. Four redzone appearances. Vinatieri missed a f'n FG, he threw a TD, he had another intercepted in the end zone. The score easily could have been a little different.

He made a rookie mistake in the endzone and threw the INT --- that was 1 foot from being a TD. He also had 1 ******** interception that should've been a Bears' offsides. He was a hair away from having a 2-1 TD/Int ratio today, to go with likely nearly 350 yards. Against that Bears' D. It was not a bad effort at all. He just learned a valuable lesson about the speed of the NFL --- he's gotta throw it harder. And he will. But the big issue today was that our overall team talent was exposed. We're a bunch of rookies and 2nd-teamers. What do you expect when we have $40 mill in dead cap space this year and underwent a complete top-to-bottom overhaul?

Been saying it all along --- it's not a logical comparison to make between Luck and RG3 this year, they have drastically different teams. Next year is when Indy will start to turn heads, that's when we'll have 1 year of experience under our belt, that $40mill in dead cap space comes alive, we'll have 1 more draft and this team will start to shape up. 6 wins tops this year, maybe not even that, that's what we're dealing with. 'Skins are a playoff team.

I think that's the thing that people aren't considering. RGIII had a running game that ran the ball 44 TIMES-- for 153 yards. The Colts ran the ball just 15 times for - 63 yards. Also, the Skins forced 3 turnovers, which gave the Skins a shorter field. This isn't to take away from Griffin, he played GREAT! He connected deep with Garcon, he didn't turn the ball over, and he was able to move the chains on 3rd and 5 and 6.

Meanwhile, Luck didn't look very good. A few of his passes sailed, he threw costly INT's, and he showed that we may need to stay away from throwing the deep out until he perfects the timing of the play because right now, everytime he throws it, it looks like it could be a pick-six.

Luck was also running for his life, and was trailing a lot of the game. Our kicker missed a short FG that would've given us momentum going into the half (would have been just a 7 point game) I don't believe in the whole "he's a gamer" because he got up following a few hits. Every player does that lol. But he definitely continued to play confidently and didn't look rattled, though he did look frustrated and a bit confused.

With that said, you can't compare the two players because their teams are so drastically different. The skins look like a potential 7-9 win team (depending on their ability to win close games) while the Colts look like a 4-6 win team--depending on the way we manage the easier part of our schedule.

Re: Colts-Bears

Ya, Griffin had time to setup, survey the field and step into his throws... I can't name a single time Luck could do that.

I'm still hoping that our line makes big strides as the year goes on. Logic says that they will.... it's the one unit that takes the longest to gel, it's very complicated in the schemes. We have a lot of new guys and they aren't even caught up in the schemes yet or familiar with each other, so as they go they should start to smooth things out. They may never be a pro-bowl level line, but I'm hoping by the end of the season taht Luck at least has a chance to actually setup and survey and step into a proper throw 50% of the time, and maybe even open some running lanes, which further opens up our passing game. Seriously, yesterday, Luck had nothing to work with, they could just throw everyone back in coverage because they had no respect for our running game at all. Just compounded the situation. I'm still amazed that Luck had 300 yards and actually got into the red zone four times... that's actually astounding the more I think about it.

It's pretty obvious now though that this next off-season, our focus will be almost entirely on the lines in the draft and free agency. We were man-handled pretty good on both sides, less so on the defensive side, but it still needs addressing.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-10-2012 at 11:22 AM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

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Re: Colts-Bears

I'm actually sort of glad that Luck has had to face some really stiff defenses to start his career off... it should raise his level of play, gives him an idea how tough it can actually be. I'd rather that, than he face 5-6 weak Ds to start off with and set his bar lower and then when we face a real D he is completely dumbfounded. He's getting a baptism of fire for sure, but so did Manning. I think it works out better in the long run.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Colts-Bears

I'm still sticking to the prediction that RG3 is going to be better than Luck, RG3 just throws the ball way harder than Luck and is more athletic, Luck is still going to be good but RG3 has the potential to be the face of the NFL for a long time.

Its alright to think RG3 is going to be good or even better than Luck but at this point one game or even one season won't tell the whole story. I think RG3 has a good chance to get hurt especially if Washington is going to allow him to run.

Re: Colts-Bears

Its alright to think RG3 is going to be good or even better than Luck but at this point one game or even one season won't tell the whole story. I think RG3 has a good chance to get hurt especially if Washington is going to allow him to run.

To me Luck has a bigger chance in getting hurt with that crappy OL he has to protect him, and also people think that RG3's game is equal to Vicks but is not, RG3 is a better thrower and he is a better pocket QB than people think, his game is throw first and run last.

Re: Colts-Bears

To me Luck has a bigger chance in getting hurt with that crappy OL he has to protect him, and also people think that RG3's game is equal to Vicks but is not, RG3 is a better thrower and he is a better pocket QB than people think, his game is throw first and run last.

If they do design run plays for RG3 then he will be both a running back and a pocket passer. Thats just the way they want to play it right now which is fine but given that meh defense of the Saints I don't think to make any predictions of his greatness right now. IF he does well against the Atlanta or the Steelers then i will be impressed but until then I won't know how he does with pressure in his face.

Re: Colts-Bears

I disagree that RG3 is a better thrower, whole-heartedly. RG3 throws a hard ball, Luck can throw the ball a multitude of ways. He's a much better touch-passer. RG3 throws it harder more often, but that doesn't mean Luck can't throw it hard. He just doesn't do it every throw like RG3 does, which... RG3 does. He's always rifling it. So does Cutler. Brady mostly just rifles it.

Manning is the classic example of a good touch passer, he can really put the ball anywhere he wants to with whatever touch and velocity he wants to. Throwing it hard isn't always the best thing to do. I also feel that Luck throws it better on the run. He's got so many ways he can deliver it. RG3 is mostly just... blast it in or over whoever he's targetting. RG3 is very good though, that's not to diminish his skills... but Luck has the widest range of throws I've seen on a guy.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 09-10-2012 at 12:17 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: Colts-Bears

They just showed on ESPN two of Lucks interceptions and he had more than enough time to throw the ball, he made a mistake in one and wasn't able to throw it that far on the other pick.

What they probably didn't show were the 8 dropbacks prior to the Interceptions where people were in his face. After getting pressured all game, the few times where nobody was around him, he probably thought he saw/felt pressure. Easily correctable.

Re: Colts-Bears

Our offensive line needs a lot of serious work. Not only do they do a terrible job creating a primary pocket to throw from, but they also don't give Luck a spot to move forward in the pocket and throw.

Luck looked great for a rookie QB. One pick was forced, another was a little bit of a mis judge on the deep ball, and another was because of pressure. Fumble obviously a pressure issue as well, but all things considered, he looked poised, didn't lose his cool, and seemed to learn from every mistake.