My Opinion on prayer in the case of natural disasters and things of that sort...It is used as the lazy mans way "helping" without rendering any real assistance to those who are victims of said disasters. There is food to be given, homes to be re-built, lives to comfort and various other things that can actually render assistance to those in need during times of crisis. But, lets be "good Christians" and pray that "god" helps those in crisis and not actually got off our butts or come up off our wallets to render some real assistance for our fellow man...

Goes to show you the level of ignorance in the world today. It's comforting to the individual who claims to pray, so they themselves can feel better about themselves and meaningless to everyone else.Again, only the person who prays.

The idea of prayer is logically contradicting. It requires God to be perfect and imperfect, it makes a travesty of the notion of scientific tests of causality, and it belittles the Omnipotent Infinite God, if such exists, and ignores the possibility of lesser supernatural powers or malevolent energies interfering with nature in untold ways.

of course they need all those things, but even the ones amongst them that have a faith will still be praying...... They know god has a long term purpose, and unfortunately they know some have to suffer............

At least the people in Japan know they have problems, we all have problems, not as severe, but we dont even know we do...... we are all under the influence of higher powers for good or bad.......

It at least puts our problems into some kind of prospective..... Being without a job, kind of fails into the background at the moment. i and i imagine lots like me and you, would love to solve the problems for all those in Japan....... But really what can we do....... If we give money it may not get to them..... If we pray to their god, it will be a comfort for the ones that do believe, whether or not we do or not.........

Earnest Hub...... I love the way your mind works.... or does it even work????

What I said makes perfect sense. If one can change the outcome for some but not others with belief, what does that say about those who died and the horror suffered by those left behind? Their own fault was it?

Which would leave us in the current example with god as a psychopath. It is not about man or god being partial, it is about outrageous claims made by religionists about natural disasters when they can't see their own psychological positioning.

Jesus, whoever believes in him shall not perish. Kings conquer nations, and after they are conquered, people bow down to him. Whether it’s to save Satan or a King, we all can pray to Jesus for salvation. It’s all confusing, please forgive me for we do not know what we do.

irony is that people who face disaster most of them have been highly religious and prayed regularly...prayer and disaster are unrelated...yes it is good way of "feeling good" ...so in that way it works...

Natural disasters are a respite for the human beings from the Creator-God to return to the path of purpose of life created by Him; which man has forgotten to pursue in the course of the man's routine material life.

So prayer helps man to ask forgiveness from the Creator-God; and man pledges again to tread on the peaceful and truthful path set for man by the Creator-God; it is a warning and a respite:

And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62)

When you are helpless and you are the ones affected by a natural disaster, it helps to calm and soothe you - psychological, but of course don't just count on prayers you need to do something about it.For others who are praying for the ones affected - it is their way of showing they care and they are thinking of you. You can give some donations if you like too, but prayers can help. Even just thinking of your friends when there is a natural disaster, means a lot to some.

Basically Prayer is the mind as well as soul dedication towards God.But there are some situations in which we are unable to do something while we have all resources,at that time only prayer.So in natural disasters like Earthquake in Japan ,they had all resources and every kind of technology,but at that time they were nothing.So at my end I only can pray for them nothing more.My help and donation is only prayers for them.

Funny thing, one punch broke my father's nose into the right placing, from being broke by someone else. Then he stops being an alcoholic, so it worked out perfectly. I believe everyone is God, It was my first punch and only first punch ever made on anyone, what faint.

A lot of things in the Bible, do not make common sense. Jesus was likely right. It’s just many of the translation are wrong,

Like your comment hereNo matter, no more time to waste on you. Enjoy your reply.

Actions speak louder than prayer, prayer may be a comfort to you, it has a 50/50 chance it may reach somewhere else, so go ahead say a prayer , there is no harm.

I prefer to comfort my Japanese friends here in Vancouver in person and do what I can for their country. I have been in Japan a few time and they are one of the beautiful people ever.

If I hear a person like Pat Robertson who cursed Haiti's earthquake for making a pact with the devil and relating to the french too. If Pat tries to condemn low religious Japan with those kinds of prayers. He will get my mail about brainwashing tactics.

Ah Beelzedad, I was wondering when you would rear your head in this discussion.

You ever notice how you just can't win with some people? If you pray, you're lazy. If you don't pray, you're just as selfish. There's no pleasing everyone and yet, you know what?

Who the hell cares if you agree with it or not?

The fact that you're posting online shows me that you are not at all effected by either the Earthquake in Japan, or any of the other myriad dangers that are a result of what is going on over there. You're safe in your home and/or place of Internet access, gleefully looking down on people you will likely never meet in real life.

The fact of the matter is, people are dying. People are dying and there is not a hell of a lot the majority of us can do about it.

So rather than spend my time condemning people who are desperate to help but are limited by whatever means hold them back, I am praising the fact that their thoughts and prayers are with those less fortunate.

Beezledad I think you make random eratic statemnents intended to provoke or agitate and you have the nerve to acuse Christians of being violent?

Pot calling the kettle black isnt it

Cant speak for anyone else (like you are doing) but I have never killed my children ,and I dont force anyone to believe in what I believe in ,not do I teach my kids to disrespect atheists or anyone who chose to believe in whomever.

It probably isnt going to happen ,but it would be mature if you recognise the facts.

I've gotten so irritated with Pat Robertson's advertised statements twice that I googled his website and sent him scathing comments. It worked once. He must have received so much hate mail he withdrew his statement and apologized.

Ahhh..... Earnest, there you go again with inserting the word 'documented', matters not a jot that millions of believers will testify that prayer works, and can quote examples, you cannot accept it as it's not 'documented'.....

BB never had a prayer answered!

I cannot dispute that of course, no documented evidence, irrespective of the fact that she may not have realized that her prayers were being answered, or that maybe she never knew to pray in accordance with Gods will, like I said, I have no way of knowing, not without 'documented evidence' and of course that documented evidence is so very hard to find when one is dealing in the spiritual realm....

Maybe God saved some Japanese survivors that we never managed to get documented, perhaps there are people out there who were due to visit that area and got diverted at the last moment, they may have even been atheists, but had believers praying for them, so God intervened, but they will never know, and it will never be 'documented' and until God can be exposed in black and white, pinned to a board and able to be examined and ' 'documented' our secular friends will keep plodding away to discredit that which they cannot accept, because it's not 'documented'.

Good concept, keep plodding away, further and further from God that is....

I really do hope it is further away, a bad person like me would be in sooo much trouble in close with your god. You seem to miss that in signaling any intervention of your god, you are condemning all those who died.

Hey ernest. I don't think it would be a bad thing for you to be close in to God. I would imagine a God would appreciate fair questions, and be happy to explain them. I'd be asking hard questions too, if I believed weather patterns and natural disasters were being used against us. It would be a strange kind of deity.

Ok. You are right, but I believe that was meant to showcase man's inherent nature only. Either way, whether we agree or disagree on the texts from our past, the reality of the here and now is what we must deal with. This belief that somehow the leprechaun next door is out to get us needs to die a quick and, hopefully, merciful death.

For [God's] eyes are upon the ways of a man, and He sees all his steps. There is no darkness nor thick gloom where the evildoers may hide themselves. [God] sets before man no appointed time, that he should appear before [Him] in judgment.

As to your second point, no way, I am not condemning anyone, like it says above "God sets before man no appointed time, that he should appear before Him in judgment." so we each make our own pathway to eternity, no point in blaming me or anyone else for other peoples deaths.

I would guess that there may have been believers killed that day also, and from the video I have seen it would have been a fast but horrific death.

The big difference would be that the believers were better able to stand before God in judgement when they met Him.

Of course if my faith, belief and trust is in error, then I guess they all just got obliterated and that was that and it's on THAT point that we stake our eternal existence.

re condemning those who died - yep, that's what is is implying. Is illogical and actually cruel. Same with the plonkers that say bad things are punishment from god.

So god might decide to act on a few prayers & spare a few - but not totally - they will likely have nightmares from the awful things they saw. Lots of people are saying they are praying for no more earthquakes, no more tsunamis etc. People aren't going to come back to life. Earthquakes & tsunamis have been happening longer than humans have walked earth, so they're not going to stop because of any devine intervention.

I'm very well thank you. I cannot understand how one can give a god "credit" for burying babies alive in a natural disaster. What is that saying about the dead? That they were sinners and god wanted them wiped out? Even the unborn and newly born? Or is it OK cos they were gonna grow up to be atheists?

you have a huge chip on your shoulder........ God is not the god of this system, Satan is........ God's time will come, i hope i live to see it, but if i dont i am confident god has a plan, and whatever we say or do, it will happen.........

and apparently god made satan and evil too as god made everything and fails to act. Good people get destroyed along with the bad - no special favours from god. People just hold out believing that maybe they will get to live in a fantasy-land free of pain.

I have many times agreed that Religion has more than been responsible for atrocities throughout history.

I am also of the opinion that it is men (and can be women) who instruct ,and/or accept these initatives. They most definately say they have their orders from on high-I dont disagree that people will say anything to manipulate their desires.

It could also be said that every country even today does the same thing. Fights under God and Country etc.

I say thats convenient for them to say so ,in fact mankind will say anything to get what they want.

Yes I agree it has always been time for people to make their own decisions...

Satan is god of the system at the moment, because god is allowing him to be. That is why god is not stepping in right now........

I have no chip on my shoulder at all........ but your work always shows you do, it really does, in the forum at least....... get it analysed, by a professional, what would i know, i am nobody. Without a chip. ha ha

Joy, Yes Satan is the ruler of this earth. God has a plan, and he will step in right on time, not before, but right on time. No offence, seems like some are confused about why God is allowing these things to happen.

Okay, you now have my attention. I am my authority. No other authority required.Only a deluded person would claim to "know" a god is real. Other than that of a belief.Don't be.You wouldn't have a clue. See what has happened to you- you expect hostility. You're funny. Just like all the other religious believers.If you actually felt love for me, then you wouldn't be expecting me to be hostile. So much for what you 'know'.

But WOC, don't you think that, in the interim, it is our obligation to work together to fix our own mess? We made this. What happens if you're wrong about the timing? Are we simply going to plug along; business as usual? This planet won't survive the industrialization of every nation. We're choking ourselves out of existence. It is entirely possible that we'll kill ourselves before too long if we don't make drastic changes.

Yes, I think it will be great if people will fix their own mess, but it takes action to do it, and I doesn't seem to be happening. Anyone who is observing can see that things are getting worse with all this greed of mankind and so many other things. Talk is cheap. It takes the right action to get things done correctly. The bible teaches about God's timing. You are rejecting God if you are disagreeing with his word. The bible is not a book of opinions. Man wrote the bible, but the scriptures were inspired by the power of God.

I disagree with interpretations. Anything done not in the spirit of the teachings of Christ, which displayed a rejection of none and a love of everything ( with the exception of the twisted nature of the teaching of the religious leaders) is not in line with the intent.

I find it interesting that Jesus was called the Reason of God and there is, at times, no reason in the argument for some interpretations of the scriptures.

37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”

And:

Matthew 6:33-34

33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you. 34 Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

In verse 33 Christ says to do the things which prosper God's kingdom and bring people to His salvation. If you do this, then all your needs will be given you. And If we follow the two commandments in the top verses, then we will be doing everything we can to fix our mess. God will fix what we as humans cannot.

Where is your place in this kingdom? Are you to inherit the earth? It would be nice if we'd all have respect for your inheritance. What if others are to inherit the earth? Maybe they wil be the ones who were hungry for justice. What punishment will await those who soiled this inheritance? Does your interpretation show the mercy Jesus spoke of? What of the pure of heart? Is purity a christian monopoly?

Don't forget the last of the beatitudes. In many, many ways your interpretation is at odds with this inheritance. You may be furiously digging a grave for yourself. with this persecution of people with this harsh interpretation.

So God let them go ahead and do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. Instead of believing what they knew was the truth about God, they deliberately chose to believe lies. So they worshiped the things God made but not the Creator himself, who is to be praised forever. Amen. That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relationships with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men and, as a result, suffered within themselves the penalty they so richly deserved. When they refused to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their evil minds and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, fighting, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They are forever inventing new ways of sinning and are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, and are heartless and unforgiving. They are fully aware of God's death penalty for those who do these things, yet they go right ahead and do them anyway. And, worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. Romans 1:24-32 NLT

I don't believe anything is a gift from god. Take rainbows - not a promise from god, but an optical effect resulting from raindrops reflecting & refracting light. Can't make your own rainbows with the garden hose.

so you mean god broke his promise when HE flooded Pakistan last year?...come one joy , you are taking book too seriously...i understand when people take essence of it but taking it literally is bit too much...

You cannot possibly believe that the story of Noah is to be taken as meaning the whole earth. How in the world can you wrap that around reality? To think it was a localized deluge is the only way to line it up with any sane take on the text, if you believe it happened in the first place and isn't simply there to teach a lesson.

you obviously haven't thought this through ie there is not enough water to flood the earth up to the mountain tops, one cannot possibly fit all the different species of animals on, with food for nearly a year, and what about afterwards? How did the kangaroos only end up in Australia? What did they have to eat when everything was dead?

There are many Gods out there and each group claiming they have the one and true GOD. Most members of each group are against each others God. When everyone is God, that means no fighting, more loving, not against other people because being against anything is just joining the problem.

I'm not against anything, just not for some things, like over dominates of Religions. Just shrink Religion to a size where people are more spiritual being first, rather than separate people and their spirit

I know they helped (prayers) because I trust in a God who loves me and is not a man so therefore doesnt lie.

Or do you see the glass as half full or half empty.

I see it full ,every day to overflowing.

People die through ,war ,vicious crimes, accidents,natural causes-such is life ,as we know it.

How do we know prayer has no effect? because we dont see an instant answer? or because it wasnt what we expected? or we simply didnt believe anything was going to happen.Jesus explained it all.But the people who love Jesus already know the 'power of prayer' and the other people who are suspicious ,wont be convinced anyway.

And once you shut your mind to something, you'll never see it true until it slaps you in the face.

I know your stance is firm, but again not just for you.

There are actual evidences that people muster away with explanations. But when you start to accept a few things, the proof comes out the woodwork. God reveals to those who diligently seek with finding Him in mind. Don't ask me why or how, but I've seen it over, and over, and over again. Before I finally believed myself, and after.

Notice as well how the more intelligent we become, the smaller and more powerful the things we create are. Then look at your body and see if it isn't more complex than the most highly advanced piece of machinery on the planet. It even self-repairs. I want a car to do that. It's not about fear, and Hell, and God being bossy. It's about something outside of our knowledge that happened where we changed from what we should be, everyone equal to each other in love. . . to disobedient, selfish, and so on into a domino of what we are today. The domino effect is not just a fun setup with blocks. It describes how operating systems with malfunctions in the information of their designs come to failure. On Windows operating systems, you get a single error. This leads to two or so. Then the two errors become a missing system file. Which in turn leads to a failing program, that aids four other programs. And in turn crashes the system over a span of roughly four weeks. And to no avail, Re-install required. Why? One little flaw.

God is good and gives, and I'll admit He sounds like an over publicised joke because of the light people shed on Him. But the Bible has insights only available to those who really spend time to find them. Not searching to prove it wrong. Adam and Eve could do whatever they wanted subtract one thing, no matter the metaphor, they were happy. But disobedience rendered them flawed, and then the domino effect of a single flaw in a system. Look at today's world. Just like Windows... One error, mass failure.

And why is it so hard to believe when the human body itself starts out as two cells? Just the same humanity started out with two people. Moses certainly didn't know anything about cells or the human body beginning in that fashion, and yet we are called the body of Christ, which started way back then, not after Christ came. The Bible talked of Christ before you ever get out of Genesis.

The truth is the world is full of lies. Lying is not a natural thing, as we should have no need to lie if we are loving. But God is nothing but truth. But we can't believe the truth because we've learned that people lie, and that we must decide when things are unreasonable that someone is lying. In the case of the Bible, hundreds of people. But they aren't lying. Not a single one. It is a historical account of the chess game that God has set in action to blind side Satan and every other pawn on the board in order to save those of His body in service to Him, so He may again give them the goodness He wishes to give.

Course I'm sure someone will 'logic' or 'reason' it to death. They will simply prove the point.

Well, sticks and stones can break my bones, but names can never hurt me. Have you ever been mugged, it hurts a hell of lot more than words. Your word in prayer for salvation for most people in the world and for most Japanese is not important to them. Christian hell in afterlife is not important to most of us on this planet. You would do better praying for Japan only your good intentions if you have nothing physical to give.

I have been much worse than mugged.. Not that the question is relevant or necessary, but now you know.

I'm very aware your unconcerned, you are a broken record in that respect. And thank you for setting the worlds opinion in stone. I'm sure my words should be completely silenced considering you personally reject them.

And I'm very poor actually. And have given much of what I did have away to others in greater need than myself.

And you didn't read the last line I suppose. I appreciate the response.

Your against me spreading my opinion. But I'll admit I have been a little too overzealous in my attempts. You guys already know everything you need to. My brain works to fast for me sometimes and I forget to leave off of paper or the keyboard. Sorry about that..

@Castlepaloma you got it right...it is not whether one prays to sun or jesus or sai...it is function of faith and how convinced your brain is that it can act based on that convictions...so you are right ...

I was addressing the lot of them actually. In my apology and otherwise.

I was simply replying to mockery being better than war, which it is. But the lesser of two evils leads to the war. Just as the battle may be lost and the war is won. Many battles are in essence personal wars. I just find it very 'loaded' ground as your never sure when a betty will go off from the slightest wrong step.

I certainly was not 'coaching' you by any means. There are plenty others of which would deserve that much more so than you. Not only that, but my statements are only available to those who will accept them. Unlike those who demand things, I for one 'actually' follow God's rules of love, and for two am very well aware that demanding words are like attempting to shove the horses face in the water, in which case he simply runs off with your saddle...

Doing something helpful and praying are the things Christians are told to do. Unsure about anyone else. But to just pray and say "I've done my part" is ridiculous and lazy on any Christians part. Unless they physically can't help in some way, or maybe financially or whatever the case may be, praying should be with, not the only thing they do.

I'm very unsure at what your trying to imply. I simply said I think it unkind to sarcastically remark about something important to another group of people. And I'm unsure, but He doesn't believe in my God, and the sarcasm is still noted. What is it that I said wrong exactly?

Praying that God will give the survivors in Japan the mental strength to endure will make a difference. I am sure there are people in Japan that will appreciate the prayers to help them cope with the devastating ordeal which they are facing right now. I have giving my donations to help Japan. We have to realize everyone does not have money at this time to donate. That's why many are praying to God to give these people the strength to make it through each day.

Radio waves are invisible. Tons of light colors are invisible to us. There is even a fish with 'invisible flesh' and we can't 'see' wind until we feel it. And who's to say that those who 'feel' God are crazy because you can't 'see' Him? I will tell you this, I almost don't want to try to explain for being asked questions not to get answers, but so the person who asked could find a hole to poke in my answer. (and I'm not just implying you)

The harder you look for God, the more of Him you will see. The harder you try to prove He doesn't exist or even doubt that He does without trying to see, the less you will find.

Everything created has intricacies that overlap and explain each other, just based off of common sense observation. I don't need a electron microscope to know that God created me. But it does help to know something had to design machines as small as cells. That's what they are. Billions of little machines that work together like a group of people to do a job. A job that you specify every time you choose a turn or write a word.

That's what I mean. I'm prepared to find a pessimistic response. But will only reply to a positive one.

people will be resilient & survive - otherwise, the human race would have been wiped out long ago. I think you are deluded in your belief that prayers actually help people be stronger. Might fool the person doing the praying into thinking they are doing something special.

I have to agree to disagree. Praying is special. I find it hard to believe that God didn't answer any of your prayers. It's best to pray God's will is done. Believe it or not, God answers prayers. We may not always recieve the answer which we are expecting. God is a higher spiritual authority, and his ways are not our ways and his thoughts are not our thoughts. The sooner you accept the ways that God intervene, it will reduce the confusion. I am not trying to upset you. I love you Bailey.

God's will changes at times when those He loves ask for mercy. Though the natural order of things set in place by time may bring about harsh things, or when a person does something bad to someone such as kidnapping. The family praying for their daughter to come home safely may be granted God's mercy to change a circumstance and make an exception for those who try to serve Him and beg Him for mercy. It is His will that changes by means of love for those who pray to Him. Of course He's not going to sacrifice His master plan of salvation or something of that nature, but the above situation is a good representation of why and how prayers work. Unless you refuse to believe.

And I don't understand how my sentiments are hollow. How could you possibly know how I felt about humanity? I did not state I want to marry you. I stated I love you as an intelligent person with ideas, thoughts, family, feelings and much more I'm sure. Cringe away, I'm sorry that love is disgusting to you, but it won't change anything.

Let me guess by the way... God is responsible for that because why? Because He sits in the seat of ultimate authority? I'm certain He will answer you when you see Him, and your not the only one with those questions. That is also not the only bad thing that happens in this world. You say God should bring justice all the time, yet Hell is not to exist? Is the murderer in your scenario to go to Heaven? God gives every man his time on earth to do good or evil. When that person dies, then judgement on whether they looked to find God (Jesus Christ) to fix the disobedient way they were given through the genes of Adam, and whether they 'actually' attempted to do good. We are to try to be as loving as we can and to do good to others. I'm guessing there is a problem with a repeat rapist and murderer going to Hell?

I don't see how anyone can miss the point. Christ Jesus was the 'fix' for all of mankind including Adam and Eve. Anyone who will accept we are imperfect and tell God we need Him, and will attempt to do what is good is accepted by God.

The murderer certainly didn't care whether he was evil, or whether that evil hurt anyone at all. Many times they perpetrate the same acts multiples of times over and over in their lives with NO concern for others bringing utter horror to people who try to love and be good. So God sees NO remorse and no concern for others. No love. Is He to allow that man into Heaven to continue his wonderful attacks? If someone "NEVER" changes and will ALWAYS be cruel and mean and hateful and ALWAYS hurts others, then I don't think it wrong to punish them at all. Heaven is for those who love the God who controls it and those who know we need Him. We are to love and to do good to everyone to the best of our ability. And when we get mad at each other, we are not being loving, and God doesn't like it. Therefore we will need God's grace to 'fix' us before we are to step foot in Heaven, which the murderer will never enter...

Yes, love is so totally weird. To those who don't know what it is. Love is not just something you tell your girlfriend when you get little 'fuzzies' inside because you have the hots for her. It is a concern for every living thing. It is caring enough to not want pain inflicted on others. It is 'I care about you as an individual who in unique' and it doesn't matter if I know you or not.

That kind of attitude is exactly why Hitler got so far into his genocide of attempting to exterminate the Jews. Because no one 'loved' them because they were 'strangers.' And the indifference caused by a lack of actual consideration left fear to overpower anyone who would have said something.

Loving someone I don't know is not weird. That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. You must be calling Jesus Christ weird for sure, because He is the reason I love you. And He loves you as well.

The problem in this world today is that people are controlled by 'fear' of nearly everything. You can't leave your doors unlocked. You can't walk alone in the dark without some 'weird' guy trying to stalk or hurt you. You can't hire a babysitter without doing a background check. And you certainly can't turn your head while your child is on the swing at the park.

If people had just a little bit of love in their heart for their fellow man or woman, we wouldn't have all those things to be afraid of. Because when you love people, you respect them and you wouldn't do wrong things against them. Love is NOT weird...

Please re-read the paragraph and try not to accuse me with inaccurate statements.

I said no such a thing.

I have told a very large number of people I love them on these threads, yet you cringe as in what? Is the implication not that I am in some way overly mushy or sentiments of the sort. I do believe you've stated twice your personal view on love. It is not an assumption and not inaccurate unless you lied of course.

And now your implying that kind words are useless, or that you know whether I do kind things to people of which I interact with in person.

I think I'm done here. Your talking in circles. No I love yous. Just for you.

Seeing as it's hard for you. Let me explain so you don't continue to tell people what I compared you to when I didn't.

"That kind of attitude is exactly why Hitler got so far into his genocide of attempting to exterminate the Jews. Because no one 'loved' them because they were 'strangers.' And the indifference caused by a lack of actual consideration left fear to overpower anyone who would have said something."

Not loving strangers is what I said you did. And that's exactly what people did that kept on walking when they seen the Jews being persecuted and carried away. They cared about people. They just didn't LOVE them, and so the fear Hitler instilled in them was enough to keep their mouths shut because they were too afraid of Hitler, and didn't sincerely, sincerely care about the Jews because they were "strangers" and they weren't killing them in front of them. And you don't put your neck on the line to say something against Hitler if you don't LOVE the people because your own life matters more.

I did NOT compare you to Hitler. Please think things through before making incorrect accusations.

What nonsense - I do not present hostility towards you because you love god. I present hostility towards you because you preach nonsense and attack progress. You show me absolutely no respect and blame whatever you perceive as ill with society as being the fault of stopping mandatory bible reading in schools. This is utter garbage.

I do not accept that slavery is morally acceptable. You do apparently. I don't care what you claim to love - why do you feel the need to force your religion on the rest of us? Including innocent children.

As I recall - you were not even living in Amerika in 1955 when the bible was being taught in classes - and segregation was the norm.

So - what does the word of god say? Is it slavery or segregation that is OK - morally speaking?

natural disaster speaks for itself - nothing and nobody can change it but people can learn from it analysing it and make conclusions;if New Orleans is flooded every year isn't it clear that nature takes possession of the space and no prays an help those people to avoid it - nature simply shows them to go away to another place to live. Nature is the one who knows best and makes harmony beyond our understanding what and how everything should be;

so when natural disasters are happened there is a reason for it: either it was the wrong place to live on from the very beginning or that was just a matter of when not a matter of if disaster happened.people at some point know disaster is coming but they ignore it willingly or unwillingly.

I would like to see just one conversation on religion where one of my points is argued instead of a goddunnit. I argue about religion with a good knowledge of the subject, where is the counter point?I can never get a believer to discuss brain chemistry and how it effects belief, mind sciences and what we know about religiosity in relation to the mind, discussions by religionists about Lawrence Krauss and other religious detractors opinions and why they are wrong, a religionist who has read "the hedonistic imperative, or anything else about the human condition and how it relates to the discussion, the subconscious and how it fits in to belief, or anything other than "the good book." It makes me feel they just don't read anything that disagrees with them. I will discuss the bible and quote it, why nothing from the other side. (Apart from a discourse with one religious hubber. just curious, no one else seems able to broaden the discussion to include any other information. I'm just about over it. Closed minds?

Eric is a green person/parrot. He is smaller than a cockatoo and a very noisy bad little bird! When he is very bad he bites and screeches as loud as a fire truck. I hate him! Not really, but he is a little turd! He bashes cats, dogs and people.

I dunno Joy, the eldest twin girl has already asked me who made the big bang. She saw it on TV apparently. I have allowed all my kids to learn about anything they like including religion. No takers yet. My Chinese son (adopted) was born in PRC and bought up without a god, He was a chorister in one of our largest churches for 6 years! Guess who drove him and went to all his choir practice with him.

I secretly love to give them lots of freedom of expression, I get to hear so much kid stuff, and it is truly a beautiful thing. Children reduce me to tears of joy at times. Must be gettin old and soft!

The little boy is six, his twin sisters are 5. They are too cute for words! You are spot on, kids lay it on the line. I heard the younger twin mumble "Silly granpa" the other day, then she flashed me a brilliant smile! I was being silly but did not expect to be called on it!

Hey. I should apologize for being so obnoxious when our paths first crossed. You're actually a pretty intelligent guy, who appears to be interested in dialogue across the great divide of belief. I hadn't run across any serious combination of the two, so I was unprepared for the experience. I hope you will forgive me.

Sure just curious, no bad feelings here! I am a student of life with an insatiable thirst for knowledge which lead me to know I don't know much.

My life has been one of high risk high stakes with me factoring the risk. I love the edge, I love life.I know this about myself.Part of my success in business was due to having a brilliant memory..... but only for the things I LIKED or needed to know. I can recall all the engine specifications for hundreds of models of bulldozers, cars, trucks, motorcycles and more without effort, but forget my own birthday, and even the birthday of my kids a few times if I am preoccupied.

I am eccentric, and have learned to live with it. I talk to everything except grass! I have long conversations with all sorts of animals and birds, I am a nutter I guess, but we seem to understand each other at least as I see it! The animals I mean.

Aspurgers at a minimum! Being human is a buzz whatever we wind up getting from the great lottery of life. I am a simple and practical man who is fascinated by all philosophy and ideas that life puts forward.I gotta say, I love life, and always have. In a way, it just gets better and better.

It sure is a good legacy. I truly do talk to all sorts of critters. I don't need a reply. That would assume I know how they communicate, and sometimes I don't. Dogs, cats and birds are a breeze, as they train us to understand them, other animals, seem to me to respond well to a friendly vibe, although other than empirical evidence, I got nutthin!

I know thats a whole other topic, but I just thought ,how interesting different people with two different belief systems ,yet able to feel and communicate with the same sensitivety, and respect of animals. Its all good to me.

I opologise ahead of time if I assumed wrongly above..( cuz its irritating when people stereotype me) ..but anyway I love observing animals and people watching ,wonder if theres a connection ......

Yes I see humans as animals, sentient animals therefore intelligent. I see the subconscious mind in humans as being almost unknown, yet a big part of who we are and what drives us.

Some people are lucky and some are not, but it does seem to depend on where we are born and in to what sort of culture. We don't have a choice in that, or I would be a better person than someone born in a poor country, and I certainly am not.

In a rich country it is easier to be focused on our subconscious minds real path for us and "follow the heart" actions to determine our "luck" a lot of the time. Religion or a belief in gods or a god play no part in any of that in my life. edit:

I like Lawrence Krauss's explanation of what I am, it has a lot of fine science behind it. I am star dust.

I don't think anyone is trying to be malicious by saying they will pray for Japan's victims and survivors. It's their way of saying "I have empathy for the people suffering in this situation and I truly hope that things will improve". I'm not religious, so I don't tell people I will pray for them but when something bad happens I do usually say "they are in my thoughts" or something like that. It's a way of recognizing that something terrible has happened and that I'm not ignoring it.

Of course, prayer and "good thoughts" aren't actually going to actually be of any tangible help, so I'd prefer if we all backed up our prayers and good thoughts with donations and aid, but I don't think just saying "I'm praying for things to get better" is a bad thing. It's meant to be a kind thing.

I don't think they mean it to help tangibly, it's more an attempt to let the victims and survivors know that other people are aware of the situation and feel bad for them. It's meant as emotional support.

Oh hey funny you mentioned Micky'D's ,it was actually Walmart,I kid you not, these ladies thought I was sweet( think it was the accent) hehe and what do ya know ,next thing we were talkin about food standards, and free food samples (like where were they ) and as we munched and crunched on new Tortilla chips ,I said:

No bailey bear. The answers are interesting. And enlightening. It has been my observation that the enlightenment is lop sided. Perhaps a different tack is in order? This one appears on a course to no where, but I just got here a month or two ago. I doubt I have been here long enough to make a studied judgement.

which side seems more enlightened to you? I am pleased that the thread has generated interesting discussion - didn't know how to word the OP being such a delicate subject matter, as people are suffering in Japan

Your side, in many ways. This belief that you are blessed through prayer, and sinners suffer because they don't is sad. But it doesn't appear as if anyone gets that, other than the ones who already knew it. I wonder if there will come a time where everyone understands the meaning of the term natural disaster.

That's the wrong reason for someone to pray. Those who pray with wrong intent don't get 'blessed' just because they pray. They may attempt to fool God in a selfish prayer but I'm sure they look like glass to Him.

The prayer should be with the attempt to convince our Father God of our love for all individual's including the ones in need. And that we sincerely desire Him to help them because when others hurt, we hurt out of care and concern for them. Selfish prayers will certainly go unanswered as I don't think God wants to hear something from a greedy person trying to 'trick' God into blessing 'them' when someone actually needs help. It's actually disgusting to me that someone would pray for the intent to 'bless' themselves when someone they should be praying for desperately needs help and is probably in pain. I find greediness, especially in the case of thinking you can fool God, very sickening.

I think your pessimism is a little overwhelming. You talk about wanting good, yet not a positive thing one has come out on one of your posts.

Your right. God knows the heart. But showing Him by actions and talking to Him shows greater concern. And why should God not expect us to show our concern to Him even though He knows it already. He knows everything, Maybe He would like to give you a reason to talk to Him.

Enjoy your posts. I can't take trying to explain things to someone who is so hateful towards God in the first place. Seek Him and He'll answer your questions. How do you think I know everything I know?

Go poke at someone else. You don't even make points, just leave open ended questions for everyone else to do your homework.

Having personally being victim of earthquake , I understand importance of prayers..but not done by others but those who themselves have suffered...It doesnot work as far as tangible results is concerned but it works for mental state of victims and belief me when nature strikes one needs lot of mental strength to overcome that...prayer helps in that....

I didnt...i dont believe in religious god who would bail me out....i am talking about people living around me , in my building...they did and it worked for them is seeing through those tough times...prayers do work in that sense....

Greetings to all hubbers. I have read some of the mail about what is the use of prayer in natural disasters. Well, I suppose that not everyone is not the same, we do not all believe the same thing, add to that we are living in a pluralistic society. With all of this in mind, there will be differences of opinion. Actually I choose to believe in praying to an almighty God. I do not understand everything, I cannot explain whys and wherefores, but I do believe in God and that He hears and answers prayers. I know too that people will suffer, innocent people at that. Yes help must be given to the people of Japan, it is not enough to prayer but it must be followed by practical help. Thats all for now.

Very long replies, I guess I would say that prayer calms us, gives a security in an unstable environment, and in a disaster, our only hope is that God will let us survive and live another day. It may not stop the storm, and might.

It seems to me that praying allows for the possibility of answer. I think that is sufficient reason when the other alternative (not praying) prohibits possibility. Prayer is not the substitute for action, it is the precursor. It is the voice of faith, but, even lacking faith, the possibility of answer, is reason enough. What does it say of us if we do not have a few moments in our day to ask comfort to rain upon Japan? Perhaps, we would rather be right in our opposition to God than for their suffering to be eased. I would prefer being proved wrong about God, after all, who have I hurt by praying and if He is there, He will not ask of me, why I did not cry out on their behalf. If crying out on their behalf offends the unbeliever, perhaps it is time to evaluate the reason behind the question!

I make no one pray or make demands of who to pray to if they do. I only ask for respect of the name God. No GDing at the table yes. They can choose what they wish to do at the dinner table so long as it's not a spell with crow legs and frogs heads....

If a Muslim Family came to your house for dinner and everyone prayed a Muslim prayer out loud. They prayed just before the meal and did not allow you and your Family to say a Christian prayer, would you dislike it?

You turning the bullet on me? You mean "not allow" me to pray and thank God for my food. Sorry, I can pray to my God with my eyes open or shut, people talking or not. And so can my family. My God hears all of my prayers and no I will not eat my food until I thank Him for it.

They can pray all they want, and I'll be respectful to them. But I'm not going to abandon my own prayers because someone carries a different opinion.

Not allow is a control thing, and I will surrender many things in this life including freedom.. All of my freedom except of my God. I will not deny Him, nor be denied praying to Him. I'd rather die. Yes, I know. Extreme for you. Death carries no weight when you know God is real.

I'll be honest. I've had enough for one day of these ridiculous arguments. Nothing good is accomplished. No one wants to listen to each other. Everyone simply wants to shove their ideas out there and then argue. I cannot understand why everyone is so set in their minds. I swear I think half the people here have to be geriatric. This makes no sense.

The soldiers are not evil. The government leaders created the wars, and if someone attacks your country you don't let them kill all your children. I don't agree with war, but those men you are talking about "praying" before battle do it to protect you. I don't feel it's very honourable to demean them in such a way.

When did praying actually achieve something?If prayer actually worked then we would all be lottery winners.Go ahead and pray if it makes you feel better but it would be better to donate some money and do something more constructive with your time.Believing in a God is susperstitious mumbo jumbo and dates back to when we were cave men and didn't know any better.I would have thought the human race would have reached a level of intelligence by now to realise this.

Well, that's an opinion. You know what they say about those here in the states.

Simply because I am not interested in internalizing a jaded and unrealistic view of the world does not mean I don't seek truth. It simply means I am not willing to follow a path I see as not in harmony. I do concede that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

You can continue to harass me, which is well within your rights. Or go away. Your right too. Or (and this would be my choice) actually share your thoughts in a nonconfrontational manner.

Dear me. I am not harassing you. Sorry - is it against the law to express an opinion in your country? I did not realize.

I do find you rather funny and am immune to your trolling. I would be interested in what you get out of it though. Is there some pleasure to be derived from doing what you do? But I never really understood peopel who derive pleasure from causing conflicts. I guess I never really understood the Christian mindset so I just do not get the idea of pleasure from conflict. Perhaps you could explain it to me?

I'm very confused by your reply. I thought I made it clear that it was within your rights to do whatever you pleased.

Hmmm, I do relish reading the opinions of others. And I have had a few people recommend interesting reading. There have been a few laughs, and I have learned a few things. So, all in all, I can honestly say this has been a good experience for me. It sounds (from your comments) that my presence has produced a negative effect on you. If this is the case I apologize.

I believe it was the dalai lama who suggested that if you can do something about a problem, there is nothing to worry about. If you can't do something about it there is nothing to worry about. This problem we have would fit into that category for me.

Sorry - I seem to have upset you again. Is that why you did not answer my questions? Nothing negative - as I said - I find you funny. I do not have a problem - I am genuinely interested in the pleasure you seem to derive from the way you act.

But I understand if you don't want to answer. A lot of religious people like yourself do seem rather cut off from themselves. No worries.

Mark, I thought I did answer your question. Was it not the one you wanted? It might help if you posted what I should say. I can cut and paste it into my reply. Would that suffice? I do so want to make you happy. For once.

Actually, studies show that those who pray donate, on average, 4 times more to charity than those who don't. Sounds to me like they are multi tasking pretty well.

IReligious people are 25% more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). Religion donating their time and money at the higher rates typical of all religious believers, so the reason why religious people give is more to do with their own politics in which politics has a lot to do with getting your own way. About 78 percent of Americans donated some money to at least one church.

The group in the United States that donate the highest percentages of their income are the poor (those making less than $20,000 per year.) Religious sector and religious organizations. .... of their donations go to churches and other religious purposes. ... Most of their donations are given to churches and related interest to their religion, rather than to other out side of religious purposes.

Yes, I know. It occurred to me after I posted that that religion is considered a charitable contribution. I don't consider that a charity. It would be interesting to see the statistics if that was taken out of the mix.

Donations of cash and property to qualified non-profits are tax deductible. To be deductible, taxpayers must keep records of their contributions. In the religious case it is tax free and hidden often. The one and only god religious politic dose mix well with most other core belief religions and non religious thoughts

Politics in which politics has a lot to do with getting your own way. , rather than for other out side purposes.

The Christian lives by faith , hope in things 'unseen'.Note it doesnt say 'all things' because clearly we often see change in a person ,or circumstances as a result of prayer combined with other things. Never the less if do some research on the testimonies of certain individuals ,you would conclude at the very least ,an intervention of a divine being

Natural disasters are a respite for the human beings from the Creator-God to return to the path of purpose of life created by Him; which man has forgotten to pursue in the course of the man's routine material life. So prayer helps man to ask forgiveness from the Creator-God; and man pledges again to tread on the peaceful and truthful path set for man by the Creator-God; it is a warning and a respite: And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62) To undestand its philosophy one many like to access:

And if Allah were to punish men for their wrongdoing. He would not leave therein a living creature, but He gives them respite till an appointed term, and when their term is come, they cannot remain behind a single hour, nor can they go ahead of it. (16:62) To undestand its philosophy one many like to access:

The law of attraction... you are sending positive energy to the people who are in need of help. There is nothing wrong with it. Prayer is free and when everyone's energy is concentrated over a particular territory, or over a specific group of people, miracles happen. It gives those in need the strength to put their lives back together.

To give my own opinion on this:Prayer does not have any use in natural disasters. Asking a being whose existence is uncertain for help isn't even equivalent to sending one penny to help out.If these people truly wanted to help, then they would send money or aid.Obviously, if they're poor and unable to send anything, then they can probably get away with not doing so.

Religious people do both the things; they pray for the affectees and also send money to help them:

Japan Earthquake and Tsunami - 12K DeathsHumanity First Continues to Help in Dangerous Conditions

On March 11 Tsunami spawned by one of the largest earthquakes ever recorded slammed Japan’s eastern coast Friday, sweeping away people, cars and homes while widespread fires burned out of control.

The death toll continues to rise, hospitals are overwhelmed with patients are running out of supplies, and millions of people have been without food, water or shelter for days. Around 63,255 buildings have either been destroyed or damaged, and more 400,000 people are in emergency shelters. There are now 4 nuclear reactors which are in critical condition and it is feared that the radioactivity is increasing around Fukushima area however the rescue teams are still arriving in the area and the search operation is still going on.

March 12th Humanity First Disaster Response Team is doing the relief work in Fukushima city which is very near to the Fukushima atomic power plant - 1. Humanity First team has initiated a soup kitchen to serve cooked food and water to the displaced people.

March 15th Humanity First continues to assist the victims of Tsunami. The team has moved its relief camp to Sendai, the city that was completely washed away after the Tsunami. The Humanity First team was one of the first to reach this badly affected area.

March 16th HF is managing the relief camp at Junior high School in Miyagi prefecture, Sendai

Related Discussions

Would united Prayer make a difference to the increasing Natural disasters?All in a matter of weeks – Ash Cloud Europe, Earth Quake China, Oil Spill US. No matter the Religion, (Muslim, Christian, Hinduism etc) Do you think if all nations set aside one day to pray in unity - it could make a...

Can you really change God's mind? If yes, then what does that say about God? If not, then why do it? And why ask others to pray for you or for someone who is perceived to be in need of prayer? I have asked this question to many religious people because I've never understood the purpose of things...

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