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I could never understand why people keep using or would want to use mech mods with regulated mods being cheap and powerful. Makes no sense and there is absolutely no reason to prefer it over regulated. Once regulations come into place, and it eventually will, I wouldn't be surprised to see them illegal to buy.

Also, I'm probably in the minority, but I believe sub-ohming is the bane of the e-cig industry. Especially perception wise. Seeing how much power you can push and how big clouds you can have is the same as two guys bragging how big their dicks are. There is not one good reason you can give for needing to sub-ohm at high wattage.

And yes I agree with what someone else said about the companies like Kanger, Aspire, etc should take some of the blame. In fact I would go so far to say as the whole e-cig industry. They have turned a product that use to be for helping smokers move to a healthier choice or try to help quitting into a hobby industry and a competition to between manufacturers to see how much power and clouds they can deliver.

I could never understand why people keep using or would want to use mech mods with regulated mods being cheap and powerful. Makes no sense and there is absolutely no reason to prefer it over regulated. Once regulations come into place, and it eventually will, I wouldn't be surprised to see them illegal to buy.

Also, I'm probably in the minority, but I believe sub-ohming is the bane of the e-cig industry. Especially perception wise. Seeing how much power you can push and how big clouds you can have is the same as two guys bragging how big their dicks are. There is not one good reason you can give for needing to sub-ohm at high wattage.

And yes I agree with what someone else said about the companies like Kanger, Aspire, etc should take some of the blame. In fact I would go so far to say as the whole e-cig industry. They have turned a product that use to be for helping smokers move to a healthier choice or try to help quitting into a hobby industry and a competition to between manufacturers to see how much power and clouds they can deliver.

To add to what Cameron has said, the saddest part is where once upon a time, youth were not involved (or very little) in vaping, it is now gaining popularity at exponential rates. This is further exacerbated by vendors who simply don't give a rats ass.

Now we can say what we want in order to protect our rights, at the same time the writing was on the wall, about vaping creating a next generation of nicotine addicts. We are seeing more and more reports of youth picking up the habit to have their dicks measured as so eloquently put by Cameron. They never were smokers, but yet took up vaping for the coolness factor, because let's face it, kids do cool things, and no one would be caught dead vaping a penstyle device in the day.

Yes the industry has jumped elaps and bounds. We need to reflect seriously with what is going on, since the major producer of our gear forbids vaping??????

To me, vaping is quietly vaping at safe levels of nic and power without bothering others.
Unfortunately, the public face of vaping to the rest of the world is cloud chasing toxic plumes and unsafe rigs blowing up on every street corner. Right or wrong, that is what a lot of people see.
Don't tell me that this is all the fault of idiot users and that we have the right to do this. We are all in this together and all bear some of that responsibility. How many times have you sat in front of your computer and said "Wow! there's a 100 watt version of it now...". Somewhere out there, there are people, money in hand, just waiting for a kilowatt device with 12 coils that can go through 5ml of juice in under a minute.
Just a month ago, I was in a shop and overheard the employee telling his newbie customer that he goes through a 30ml bottle of juice in a day and a half. To emphasize that point, he then took a massive lung hit and blew out a huge cloud. If this is the kind of image we project, what do you expect to happen?

Mech mods and tanks that's where the problem in alberta happened i believe. The story seems to keep changing as its the father who bought it.. then another article said the son bought it... conflicting.

Education i think is the biggest thing we can do at the moment. Education to the end user. It's too easy to sell something to a customer without taking the proper time to explain everything including battery saftey. That's the reason i wish the forum or facebook groups are more in front of customers faces.

Heck a person does not even need to go into a store... just like the good old days.. order it all online and learn yourself hopefully the right way.

Educating the owners of the stores and the employees.. i think that's the biggest key but there has to be a standard about how that happens.

Where we cam from, why are we here and where we are going Part 1

Originally Posted by Nicklfire

Mech mods and tanks that's where the problem in alberta happened i believe. The story seems to keep changing as its the father who bought it.. then another article said the son bought it... conflicting.

Education i think is the biggest thing we can do at the moment. Education to the end user. It's too easy to sell something to a customer without taking the proper time to explain everything including battery saftey. That's the reason i wish the forum or facebook groups are more in front of customers faces.

Heck a person does not even need to go into a store... just like the good old days.. order it all online and learn yourself hopefully the right way.

Educating the owners of the stores and the employees.. i think that's the biggest key but there has to be a standard about how that happens.

Wow, is this post ever loaded

If one was around to see the evolution of ecigs, they have a better grasp of what occurred on many levels and could see where things were going.

Facebook...
We saw a drastic change come about in 2012, where forums were the norm but FB started to take over. Is/was there anything wrong with that? Absolutely! We no longer had a "central database" for the lack of a better word. You don't have that database on FB. Threads are hot, then cold and forgotten/buried. Unless someone posts a link to a defunct thread, good luck finding it.

It goes without saying that the "database" was commensurate with its membership, but one found the appropriate info, maybe a different slant but generally the info was similar and relevant.

FB was never intended to replace forums, and their simple nature makes it impossible to do so. There is a lot of misinformation occurring and in fighting for the lack of a better word. The latter is not constrained to e cigs, but all topics I have ran across. Why? In general no control, something forums had was a ban hammer. A good thing whether we liked it or not.

I have pulled down dozens of YouTube videos that were "unsafe" (not necessarily e cig related), and this can be easily done by anyone by providing substantiating data to why it is unsafe. I never had any refusals, and within hours those videos were gone. It is a little part that anyone can do.

Censorship...
As mentioned above without restrictions in place, anybody can post anything on any subject, right, wrong or indifferent. It's a free for all! Is that a good thing? Absolutely not!

E cigs evolution....
Because of the uncertain market '09-10 folks sought ways to be self-sufficient, should the "market" become illegal. The only thing that folks couldn't duplicate in the day, which was the heart of every ecig was the atomiser. Along came Raidy and a few others. When you pool many great minds together, great ideas are exchanged and experimentation on how to make a better mouse trap begins.

You didn't recoil an atomiser, you bought a new one @ $12 pop, cartos were designed as single use (expensive yes) but degrading took place during its life, and definitely on subsequent refills. One thing for sure is that a carto did not last as advertised = 1 pack of smokes. Yes it did! It was smoking cessation, not smoking replacement, which in many cases is where we are at today. E cigs were meant to buffer withdrawal symptoms and those that had the proper mindset found themselves smoke free. I seriously doubt that folks today could have weaned themselves of smokes, using the equipment of the day. Why? Mindset! It stares us in the face everyday, and witnessed by various testimonies of vapers in our local B&Ms. I need more power, ug! No son, you need to get real, calloused perhaps, but the truth nonetheless. You either want to quit smoking or you don't. There is no rainbow or magical genie to get you there. Only you! E cigs provides you the means to help you to stop smoking, if you want to quit. Some choose ecigs as an alternate lifestyle and that is their right as well. Those are known as hobbyist and possibly the ones that are hurting the industry as a hole.

The 510...
The 1st low resistance atomiser to be invented and marketed, man did the 510 change things. This was circa late'09. The atomiser came in at 2.2 Ohm, the norm was 3-3.2 Ohm. Most of us around in 2010 started out with the 510. Great TH (throat hit), reasonable flavour, and good VP (vapor production). What was lacking in the day was that gentle thump in the hole (we easily find with our finger) under our Adam's apple, not in the throat itself. Many tried to increase this feeling with PGA (pure grain alcohol) or even hot sauce for the lack of a better word. The latter additives merely provided a scratchy and even rawness in the throat, not the actual thump described herein. TH is mostly caused my the nic content of our liquids, but also the density of said liquids, a proponent of VG.

the 302/801...
Joye (at the time) produced the 302 whilst the competition (forgot who) produced the 801. The delta between the 2, the 302 ran cooler than the 801, When we meter them that delta was 0.2Ohms and yes the 302 would run cooler at 3.2 vice 3.0. The 801 (the survivor) produced good flavour, a reasonable TH and great VP. This atomiser became the choice of most drippers in the day. The device was also known as a penstyle, because it looked like a pen.

The 901...
Prior to the 510, the 901 was the atomiser of choice, and to many myself included even to this day. The downfall of the 901 was the leaking from the air inlet at the side of the atomiser, caused by improper use. The 901 delivered good flavour, great TH and good/great VP. In other words, a one in all. Because of complaints on leaking due to improper use, it lost its favour to the 510 when it came out. Allow me to refresh your memory. The 510 provided great TH but in doing so provided marginal flavour compared to the 801/901, with a somewhat limited VP when compared to the other 2. TH is what vapers sought and needed. I was always a flavour guy ... The came the eGo, the 510 on steroids

Before we get into the eGo and what followed, every kit came with instructions. Although they were written in Chinglish, you could get the gist. e.g only use the approved charger that came with the kit (period) All safety instructions were contained (and still are) if folks bother to read them. If VP becomes weak (low battery charge) or battery blinks 10 times, put a fresh battery on, and charge the low one. For the lack of a better word, do not FUCK with your ecig. There are no serviceable parts in a ecig. Now the latter could be argued that this was merely a marketing ploy to generate more sales. True, but a safety recommendation nonetheless. A thing unknown at the time was proprietary batteries and threads. Although the 901 was out, another ecig on the market (carto type KR-808) had a 901-D thread. OK, so we can't use our 901 charger for those (can't screw it on) but some had reverse polarity e.g the middle was negative and the outside positive. The adopted industry std (to this day) is reverse. So you had an incentive to only use the charger that came with the kit.

One line that used to be in my signature was... A vaper without a multi-meter is like a doctor without a stethoscope. You cannot diagnose anything!

So what do folks do? We are vaping fine, all of a sudden our device no longer produces vapour. We instinctively change batteries. If the atomiser was dead, you just shorted out your fresh battery, by blowing the fuse on the board (protection). Although we could see our ecig flashing 10 times from the end, it was not as visible as on an eGo, where it was in your face more or less, that was the indication that you needed a fresh battery. No blinking, stop what you were doing and investigate, there is a good chance your atomiser is blown and no problems ensue, just change your atomiser. A blown atomiser = an open circuit e.g current no longer flowing from + to - through a resistive load e.g the load using up the power produced by the battery. On a dead short however si when + and - come into contact with each other without a resistive load to dissipate the heat generated (power) there is no electrical flow but a closed circuit akin to sticking your finger in a faucet and the up stream side of a faucet is connected to a balloon (the battery) as pressure builds up in the balloon, the balloon will burst, so will the battery, if there is nothing (fuse) to open the circuit, stopping the flow of electricity. If the latter happens, just like blowing a fuse in your house electrical panel, you need to replace the fuse or in this case the battery. <---- All this is in layman's terms. It is a little more complicated but the gist can be acquired.

The eGo...
The eGo totted as the 510 on steroids really revolutionised the industry bwcause of PWM, pulse width modulation. Short strokes as battery charges wane, thro8ugh the use cycly, PWM ensured your last puff was akin to your 1st puff, making a battery with a longer usage life. The cone, which many found goofy and did not use was designed to preheat the incoming air to the ecig, akin to the sensation felt with a normal cig. It not only provided oral satisfaction (get your mind out of the gutter) but it increased TH. Not much else really changed from the 510, w9ith the4 exception that you had the sensation of vaping on a fresh battery from start to finish. PWM revolutionised the industry. It came with better Chinglish instructions and a 650mAh battery. It also stated in bold, do not use your charger to recharge your 510 battery (180mAh) or the megas @ 220 mAh. The charger delivered 4.2VDC @ 450mAh. We should always charge at a rate below the carrying capacity of the battery, the lower the better. So you could charge your battery with a 510 charger in a pinch (150 mAh), it just took longer. Folks that were cheap, and did not have extra batteries sought ways to speed things up. eGo batteries in the day went for $28-30 a pop and lasted 8-10hrs 1 to 1.5 hr per 100mAh) compared to 1.5-2 hrs on a 510.

Jumping to the spring of 2011 and the LR atomiser...
Although totted as the 1st LR atty, the 1.567 etc... (Fibonacci’s sequence) We now know it wasnt. The 510 was @ 2.2Ohm but it could be argued that the 1.5 (standard for LR) was indeed an LR for the time. Drew Glieb from NHaler was the individual who introduced it to the market. He stated that to use such a device, required a minimum of 400mAh and an high drain (IMR) battery, which meant the req't to use Li Mn vice Li Ion. Litihium Manganese (Li Mn) were a rarity and very expensive in the day. What many did, was forgo Li Mn and to simply stick to the more than 400mAh.

Although the eGo battery had a capacity of 650mAh and met the capacity req't, it did not meet the current draw (amps). Not only was the vaping cycle reduced 4-6 hrs, teh battery life was also reduced from 12 to 14 months, down to 4-6. many argued they could live with that, and that is fair. However here was a clear deviation from common recommended safety practices. Not only was battery longevity diminished, may burned the "mofset or mosfet" (can't remember the proper spelling)) rendering the battery unserviceable e.g they blew the fuse. Of course many were pissed off with this, and many stated well I been using the battery like this for X months, so that can't be it! Hello?

Where we cam from, why are we here and where we are going Part 2

... as seen, this is where folks started to disregard safety recommendations in order to pursue satisfaction.

I did my own experimentation knowing full well the consequences. I purchased a battery just for that, a guinea pig, and that is where I got my data that the battery life was halved. It wasn't just my own determination it was the determination of several well versed individuals that came to this conclusion as well. But, folks simply wanted to do, what they wanted to do.
The 750mAh eGo battery...
Some might say, Joye never made or marketed a 750mAh battery, and they would be right. The 750 was rejected by Joye, as it failed to meet some safety parameter and did not employ PWM. This battery found its way into the "Riva". I/we don't have the complete skinny on this battery, but for all intent and purpose it was a "factory reject". I can't remember the company that acquired these batteries (they weren't considered a reputable coy at the time) developed and marketed the Riva. This was welcomed because it had an extra 100 mAh, and delivered a belieevd 4.2VDC vice 3.2VDC PWM @3.0 UL (under load). What folks refused to admit to others and themselves is that they were vaping at 3.5/6 VDC under load @ 4.2 VDC, regardless of a fresh battery @4,2 who is only there for 1 pull or 2 spending most of its time at 3.7 VDC, which also equates to a lower voltage under load (around 3.3 VDC) vice 3.0 VDC. As the battery waned after about 20-25 pulls their VDC under load diminished concurrent to the battery wane. While the eGo with true PWM provided the same vape from start to finish. When an eGo battery lasted 100+ puffs, the short gain of 20-25 is really a moot point. I designed an eGo "woody" using a 2600mAh AW Li Ion battery, to conduct my expereiment for 2-3 weeks and came to the aforementioned conclusion(s)

The low resistance atomiser...
I never liked the LR atty @ 1.5. It wasn't until IKV came out with a 2.0 later a 1.8 Ohm that LR had its place in my vaping arsenal. Why? I was always a flavour guy and the 1.5 burned too hot, causing too hot a vapour and burnt the liquid somewhat diminishing flavour. Something I have experience @ higher wattages, regardless of the equipment or sub components used.

It was discussed in the day that the sweet spot found its place between 6 and 12W, where 9 was bang in the middle. I vape between 8-9W. We stuck to that for a long time, and many are there even today.

When the 1.5 came out, it was totted as an atomiser designed to mimic regulated 5VDC vaping, 4.5/6 VDC under load. It didn't and still doesn't. Vaping at that voltage required a minimum of 2.5 Ohm with 3 Ohm preferred (longevity). This phenomenon was latter understood by many circa' 2013 or so.

Watts (heat) vice Current (amperage)...
Although some will say that Nuck's Fistpack was the 1st variable voltage device, it wasn't. The Buzzkill was the 1st VV device. Nuck's fist pack was "selectable voltage" e.g you had a choice between X or Y, not between X or Y. It also req'd a fancy set up to figure out where you were at. The 1st device that permitted you tyo change on the fly was the Provari.

In that time frame, prior to the release of the Provari, Evolv came on the scene, with their VW concept, the Darwin. Ooooh what a hornets nest that caused. Many did not understand the concept, but as an ex Control Technician, I knew what they were after, and if they could do it (and they did) it would revolutionised the industry. The both the Provari and the darwin were plagued with problems, as expected with any new product. The biggest downfall with the Provari is folks insisting in using LR atomisers on a VV device. They didn't need itl, but you couldn't tell a Heinz pickle fuck all. <---- This statement holds true today. The Darwin was more liquid finding its way into the circuitry than anything else. Both units were self-protecting. The downside of the Darwin is that it contained a Lipo battery that required the unit to be sent back for a battery change, whereas the Provari used a typical IMR 65mm battery. Then came the kick... turning every any 18500 mod into a VW mod.

As with vapers wanting to vape LR atties on the Provari, vapers wanted 12W out of the kick, which was ltd to 10W.

Now we are seeing 200 to 300W devices. When Evolv announced their pairing with Innokin, the 2 companies wished to maintain responsible limits setting their ceiling to 30W on the MVP3. Prior to the release of the MVP3, The IPV2 came about with 50W available, as the 50 was released, the 100W was announced etc... So short of plugging yourself to your car battery, where does it stop?

I have a power inverter (used for electroplating) that beats any device4 on the market. Is it overkill? Absolutely.

In order to maintain market shares, manufacturers are spitting out devices without much thought in support of an uneducated public demand. Is the latter a wise decision? I am afraid not. As discussed herein vapers have always sought ways to circumvent the system (safety) to achieve their end, regardless of the consequences of such actions on the industry. We have become a society of me myself and I.
Cloud production...
Spurred in the Philippines and setting roots in California micro coils (Originally found on the HH357) by Cisco, and alter sub-ohm coils became the norm on RBAs etc... The result of folks blowing these beach balls all over the place, set ground for the 1st legislation wrt banning vaping in public, which resulted in many States and Provinces following suit. We can argue all we want, but @ 16-18% we shot ourselves in the foot, and now we are pissed off, crying where is democracy? Well folks democracy is alive and well. 82% of the population don't give a rats ass, they simply do not want to be exposed to our vapour, PERIOD and that is their right! Right, wrong or indifferent. Our addiction is not their problem, it is your/ours, not theirs.

We jumped ahead here for brevity. How did we get to where we are at, and is it healthy (for the industry)? Please take a pause and reflect.

We cry blue murder, when we see things happen and far too often we need someone to blame, not dissimilar to this thread. Well, yes someone is liable and should be held to account. I never heard of the Hybrid top. What was the rationale behind its creation, I am sure someone has what is deemed a valid explanation?

The recommendation here is to alleviate the recurrence is too make the pin 2mm longer. Sound like a good idea, on the surface but... What happened to ensure no liquid enters the battery compartment? Has any one overlooked this? Who in their right mind would come up with an idea of no insulation between pos and neg, let alone using a component that was never designed to go on that type of top?

The long and the short, unless we get our collective asses together here and curb where we are going, we are going to be in a pile of hurt. The industry doesn't need regulation, we are self-regulating? Think again folks... it is awfully scary what we are seeing these days.

Considering where we started from, the rationale behind it, and where we are today... I can see a regulated industry of providing cigalikes with a concentration at around 14-16mg. Good luck to the hobbyist. The writing is on the wall.

We have won our right to vape, that is/was a big win. However no one said it will or would be at X watts using X mg with a tank containing X ml.

I know of at least 2 vendors in my area that will not sell to non-smokers. There reply (customers) I'll go some place else. Kudos to the vendors that maintain their integrity. Children are getting their hands on vape supplies, and the majority are not being purchased by adults, an oath we all took as verbatim. Yeah right! Employees not having the necessary skills required to even open the door of vape shops, sad, sad... Yes I have seen this

I closing, as long as we have irresponsible vapers and vendors out there, read not simply irresponsible vendors (whcih we have a lot of, unfortunately) we are in a pile of hurt. As previously stated, shit will happen. Unfortunately, very few were not related to user error. We cannot control stupid, and we have seen so much of this. The problem is today, the ramifications are more severe. I don't have the solution either, but I do know the blame is not one sided.

... as seen, this is where folks started to disregard safety recommendations in order to pursue satisfaction.

I did my own experimentation knowing full well the consequences. I purchased a battery just for that, a guinea pig, and that is where I got my data that the battery life was halved. It wasn't just my own determination it was the determination of several well versed individuals that came to this conclusion as well. But, folks simply wanted to do, what they wanted to do.
The 750mAh eGo battery...
Some might say, Joye never made or marketed a 750mAh battery, and they would be right. The 750 was rejected by Joye, as it failed to meet some safety parameter and did not employ PWM. This battery found its way into the "Riva". I/we don't have the complete skinny on this battery, but for all intent and purpose it was a "factory reject". I can't remember the company that acquired these batteries (they weren't considered a reputable coy at the time) developed and marketed the Riva. This was welcomed because it had an extra 100 mAh, and delivered a belieevd 4.2VDC vice 3.2VDC PWM @3.0 UL (under load). What folks refused to admit to others and themselves is that they were vaping at 3.5/6 VDC under load @ 4.2 VDC, regardless of a fresh battery @4,2 who is only there for 1 pull or 2 spending most of its time at 3.7 VDC, which also equates to a lower voltage under load (around 3.3 VDC) vice 3.0 VDC. As the battery waned after about 20-25 pulls their VDC under load diminished concurrent to the battery wane. While the eGo with true PWM provided the same vape from start to finish. When an eGo battery lasted 100+ puffs, the short gain of 20-25 is really a moot point. I designed an eGo "woody" using a 2600mAh AW Li Ion battery, to conduct my expereiment for 2-3 weeks and came to the aforementioned conclusion(s)

The low resistance atomiser...
I never liked the LR atty @ 1.5. It wasn't until IKV came out with a 2.0 later a 1.8 Ohm that LR had its place in my vaping arsenal. Why? I was always a flavour guy and the 1.5 burned too hot, causing too hot a vapour and burnt the liquid somewhat diminishing flavour. Something I have experience @ higher wattages, regardless of the equipment or sub components used.

It was discussed in the day that the sweet spot found its place between 6 and 12W, where 9 was bang in the middle. I vape between 8-9W. We stuck to that for a long time, and many are there even today.

When the 1.5 came out, it was totted as an atomiser designed to mimic regulated 5VDC vaping, 4.5/6 VDC under load. It didn't and still doesn't. Vaping at that voltage required a minimum of 2.5 Ohm with 3 Ohm preferred (longevity). This phenomenon was latter understood by many circa' 2013 or so.

Watts (heat) vice Current (amperage)...
Although some will say that Nuck's Fistpack was the 1st variable voltage device, it wasn't. The Buzzkill was the 1st VV device. Nuck's fist pack was "selectable voltage" e.g you had a choice between X or Y, not between X or Y. It also req'd a fancy set up to figure out where you were at. The 1st device that permitted you tyo change on the fly was the Provari.

In that time frame, prior to the release of the Provari, Evolv came on the scene, with their VW concept, the Darwin. Ooooh what a hornets nest that caused. Many did not understand the concept, but as an ex Control Technician, I knew what they were after, and if they could do it (and they did) it would revolutionised the industry. The both the Provari and the darwin were plagued with problems, as expected with any new product. The biggest downfall with the Provari is folks insisting in using LR atomisers on a VV device. They didn't need itl, but you couldn't tell a Heinz pickle fuck all. <---- This statement holds true today. The Darwin was more liquid finding its way into the circuitry than anything else. Both units were self-protecting. The downside of the Darwin is that it contained a Lipo battery that required the unit to be sent back for a battery change, whereas the Provari used a typical IMR 65mm battery. Then came the kick... turning every any 18500 mod into a VW mod.

As with vapers wanting to vape LR atties on the Provari, vapers wanted 12W out of the kick, which was ltd to 10W.

Now we are seeing 200 to 300W devices. When Evolv announced their pairing with Innokin, the 2 companies wished to maintain responsible limits setting their ceiling to 30W on the MVP3. Prior to the release of the MVP3, The IPV2 came about with 50W available, as the 50 was released, the 100W was announced etc... So short of plugging yourself to your car battery, where does it stop?

I have a power inverter (used for electroplating) that beats any device4 on the market. Is it overkill? Absolutely.

In order to maintain market shares, manufacturers are spitting out devices without much thought in support of an uneducated public demand. Is the latter a wise decision? I am afraid not. As discussed herein vapers have always sought ways to circumvent the system (safety) to achieve their end, regardless of the consequences of such actions on the industry. We have become a society of me myself and I.
Cloud production...
Spurred in the Philippines and setting roots in California micro coils (Originally found on the HH357) by Cisco, and alter sub-ohm coils became the norm on RBAs etc... The result of folks blowing these beach balls all over the place, set ground for the 1st legislation wrt banning vaping in public, which resulted in many States and Provinces following suit. We can argue all we want, but @ 16-18% we shot ourselves in the foot, and now we are pissed off, crying where is democracy? Well folks democracy is alive and well. 82% of the population don't give a rats ass, they simply do not want to be exposed to our vapour, PERIOD and that is their right! Right, wrong or indifferent. Our addiction is not their problem, it is your/ours, not theirs.

We jumped ahead here for brevity. How did we get to where we are at, and is it healthy (for the industry)? Please take a pause and reflect.

We cry blue murder, when we see things happen and far too often we need someone to blame, not dissimilar to this thread. Well, yes someone is liable and should be held to account. I never heard of the Hybrid top. What was the rationale behind its creation, I am sure someone has what is deemed a valid explanation?

The recommendation here is to alleviate the recurrence is too make the pin 2mm longer. Sound like a good idea, on the surface but... What happened to ensure no liquid enters the battery compartment? Has any one overlooked this? Who in their right mind would come up with an idea of no insulation between pos and neg, let alone using a component that was never designed to go on that type of top?

The long and the short, unless we get our collective asses together here and curb where we are going, we are going to be in a pile of hurt. The industry doesn't need regulation, we are self-regulating? Think again folks... it is awfully scary what we are seeing these days.

Considering where we started from, the rationale behind it, and where we are today... I can see a regulated industry of providing cigalikes with a concentration at around 14-16mg. Good luck to the hobbyist. The writing is on the wall.

We have won our right to vape, that is/was a big win. However no one said it will or would be at X watts using X mg with a tank containing X ml.

I know of at least 2 vendors in my area that will not sell to non-smokers. There reply (customers) I'll go some place else. Kudos to the vendors that maintain their integrity. Children are getting their hands on vape supplies, and the majority are not being purchased by adults, an oath we all took as verbatim. Yeah right! Employees not having the necessary skills required to even open the door of vape shops, sad, sad... Yes I have seen this

I closing, as long as we have irresponsible vapers and vendors out there, read not simply irresponsible vendors (whcih we have a lot of, unfortunately) we are in a pile of hurt. As previously stated, shit will happen. Unfortunately, very few were not related to user error. We cannot control stupid, and we have seen so much of this. The problem is today, the ramifications are more severe. I don't have the solution either, but I do know the blame is not one sided.

As always well written, thanks for the recap on the evolution of vaping.