Out of Iberia and into Germany (Eurogenes)

It'll be interesting to see the Iberian components as they come into focus. One of the big questions I have is whether there is a presence of anything resembling an Eastern European like ancestry, or will we see something distinct that only later becomes more steppe-like after commingling with the Corded Ware?

Nothing eastern about him, just a neolithic farmer with WHG ancestry and a very small dash of SSA, which is predictable. No idea when the sample is from (3200-2000BC ?), but he appears not to have been from a Beaker site.

So, in my opinion, either these people were responsible for BB spread in western Europe, and were probably (or certainly) not IE, or the ones who did it were closely related to these, but having yet unknown steppe ancestry, probably r1b, and therefore we still need Iberian Beaker samples to build the big picture.

Andre, Steppe ancestry is a big question mark for me as well. I have doubted that Eastern European ancestry was as prevalent in the earliest Beakers (at least those migrating into Germany) for the reason that the German Beakers have reduced steppe ancestry compared to the previous Corded Ware individuals at the same sites, to which they were mixed. It may take a while to get good Beaker candidates in Iberia because I suspect there was a reflux from Northern Europe as well. Probably any remains from the earliest Portuguese sites and Moroccan sites might help better define those original components that are carried forward into Northern Europe.

@bellbeakerblogger," One of the big questions I have is whether there is a presence of anything resembling an Eastern European like ancestry, or will we see something distinct that only later becomes more steppe-like after commingling with the Corded Ware?"

Either Iberian Bell Beaker had Steppe ancestry or they didn't. There's nothing native to Western Europe(before 2600 BC) that could be confused as Steppe ancestry. Once we get their DNA we'll know if they had Steppe ancestry or not.

BBB, have you been able to decipher any consensus on the carbon dating issues with BB phenomenon yet ? (Im aware the out of Iberia proto-Beaker package still holds, even if some dates were exaggerated due to reservoir effects; but I think it was ? Muller who found equally old dates in Hungary & parts of Germany (?)

I remember off hand that that wasn't correct and the styles that appear along Danubian cultures are still derived regardless. The only continental wide study was Mueller and VanWilligan and there was a clear gradient SW to NE.

I'll look for what you reference since I've looked at it before. Admittedly the dates will be biased for the Portuguese sites because many of those artifacts are concentrated in areas that are clearly defined as archaeological sites whereas the footprint may be very light in other places and the diagnostic package was not yet defined.

There is also some diagnostic bias which was the basis of the Dutch model. I'm not sure radiocarbon dates will be much help for understanding it's origin because the diagnostic package is international. Probably only genetics will help understand how it started to form

This was the paper: "New radiocarbon evidence for European Bell Beakers and the consequences for the diffusion of the Bell Beaker phenomenon"But on re-reading, I think it concludes out of Iberia, acc. to dates.

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