WEBVTT ♪ MIKE: TODAY, ON "UPFRONT," THE NEW REPUBLICAN PLANS FOR WELFARE REFORM. DRUG TESTING PEOPLE WHO GET UNEMPLOYMENT AND RESTRICTING CHOICES FOR FOLKS USING FOOD STAMPS. WE'LL HEAR THE PROS AND CONS TODAY FROM REPUBLICAN SENATOR DUEY STROEBEL AND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR LENA TAYLOR. THEN, 2016 AND THE DEMOCRATS. THE EDITOR OF THE NATION KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL ON WHY A BIGGER FIELD IS A GOOD FOR DEMOCRATS. PLUS, ARE WE GETTING CLOSER TO A DEAL FOR A NEW ARENA IN MILWAUKEE? ♪ ANNOUNCER: COVERING THE ISSUES IMPORTANT TO WISCONSIN, THIS IS "UPFRONT WITH MIKE GOUSHA." MIKE: HELLO AGAIN, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "UPFRONT." SOME BIG CHANGES COULD BE COMING TO GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS USED BY HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF STATE RESIDENTS. PROGRAMS LIKE FOOD STAMPS AND UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. ASSEMBLY REPUBLICANS HELD A HEARING LAST WEEK ON SEVERAL BILLS. ONE WOULD REQUIRE PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE TO TAKE DRUG TESTS. ANOTHER WOULD RESTRICT THE KINDS OF FOOD THAT COULD BE PURCHASED THROUGH THE PROGRAM KNOWN AS FOOD SHARE. FOR INSTANCE, NO SHRIMP, LOBSTER OR CRAB. AND A THIRD BILL WOULD REQUIRE PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE FOOD SHARE TO SHOW A PHOTO ID FOR THEIR BENEFITS. REPUBLICANS SAY THEY ARE TRYING TO REFORM WELFARE AND ELIMINATE FRAUD, BUT DEMOCRATS HAVE COUNTERED THAT THESE MEASURES SHAME PEOPLE WHO RECEIVE GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE PROPOSALS TODAY WITH REPUBLICAN SENATOR DUEY STROEBEL OF SAUKVILLE AND DEMOCRATIC SENATOR LENA TAYLOR OF MILWAUKEE. SENATORS, THANK YOU TO BOTH OF YOU. YOU FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT THIS LEGISLATION, LET'S BEGIN WITH DRUG TESTING. WHY DO WE NEED THAT IN WISCONSIN? DUEY STROEBEL: I JUST GOT DONE WITH THE CAMPAIGN AND I A SMALL BUSINESSMEN. WHAT I HEAR MORE AND MORE IS THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE. THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE. I AM HEARING IT IS BECOMING MORE DIFFICULT TO FILL THOSE JOBS OFTEN TIMES AND ONE REASON IT IS MORE DIFFICULT TO FILL THOSE JOBS IS BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SHOWING SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEMS. THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HOLDS OUR SOCIETY BACK AND JUST DOES NOT ALLOW PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SUCCESS THAT THIS COUNTRY CAN PROVIDE TO PEOPLE. REALLY WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT -- THIS IS A PUNITIVE, IT IS NOT CRIMINAL, NOTHING OF THE SORT. WHAT IT IS IS A MECHANISM TO GET PEOPLE HELP. TO -- TO TAKE THEM FROM A PLACE WHERE THEY ABUSE SUBSTANCES TO A PLACE WHERE THEY DON'T BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THAT THEIR PATH TO SUCCESS IS GOING TO BE A MUCH BETTER ONE IF THEY ARE NOT A SUBSTANCE ABUSER. THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT. MIKE: HE SAYS IT'S ABOUT HELPING PEOPLE, WHAT DO YOU SAY? LENA TAYLOR: WELL, I THINK WHEN HE WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL HE DID NOT HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO READ THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES REPORT AND TALKING ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH BEEN A CHALLENGE IN OUR STATE. WHEN PEOPLE ARE POTENTIALLY USING DRUGS, MORE THAN LIKELY THERE IS A DEEP ROOTED ISSUE AND THAT ISSUE PROBABLY REVOLVES AROUND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES. I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE SENATOR, I DON'T THINK ANYONE DOES. WE WENT TO ADDRESS FRAUD IN THE SYSTEM BUT THIS IS NOT ABOUT ADDRESSING GOD. -- ADDRESSING FRAUD. IN A SENSE THAT, ONE, WE HAVE INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE HUNGER ISSUES AND NOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS SAYING, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET FOOD IF YOU HAVE A DRUG PROBLEM. I THINK PART OF MY CONCERN WITH THAT IS IT WOULD BE FINE IF WE KNEW THAT WE HAD AN INFRASTRUCTURE TO PROVIDE SERVICES FOR PEOPLE. THAT REPORT TOLD US THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE SERVICES ON THE GROUND, NOT ONLY FOR MENTAL HEALTH BUT ALSO FOR ADDICTION ISSUES. MIKE: SENATOR, ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE HEARD FROM PEOPLE WHO OPPOSE THIS SAY, WHY NOT FOR EVERYBODY WHO GETS GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE? WHY NOT REQUIRED DRUG TEST OF OTHER PEOPLE? WHY JUST POOR PEOPLE? DUEY STROEBEL: THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS. THIS IS A STATEWIDE PROBLEM. THIS IS ABOUT A SUBSTANCE ABUSE. THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE BILLS THAT WE NEED TO DISTINCTION BETWEEN. ONE OF THEM IS REGARDING UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. WHEN YOU GO ON TO UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, YOU WILL BE SCREENED, TAKE A QUESTIONNAIRE. IF YOU INDICATE A HIGH PROPENSITY FOR DRUG USE OR SUBSTANCE ABUSE, THEN YOU WOULD BE TESTED. WHAT HAPPENS IS ONCE YOU ARE TESTED, IF YOU PASS, FINE, YOU ARE ON YOUR WAY WITH UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS. IF YOU REFUSE, WELL, YOU REALLY ARE NOT HELPING OUT IN THE SITUATION BECAUSE ULTIMATELY, WE KNOW THAT THE ONLY PEOPLE GETTING TESTED UNDER THIS PROGRAM ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS PEOPLE WHO HAVE A SUBSTANCE ABUSE PROBLEM IN THE PAST OR WHO ARE LOOKING AT EMPLOYMENT WHERE THERE IS A VERY HIGH LIKELIHOOD THAT THEY ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A DRUG TEST TO DO THAT JOB. AGAIN, IF YOU ARE FOUND AS THE DUCK ABUSER, YOU WILL GET HELP. YOU WILL GET COUNSELING, YOU WILL GET HELP, AND YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET YOUR BENEFITS. YOU WILL CONTINUE TO GET THAT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFITS. NOBODY IS GETTING KICKED OFF OF ANYTHING, IT IS ALL ABOUT HEALTH. LENA TAYLOR: I ACTUALLY THINK THE SENATOR MAY HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS, BUT WHEN WE SPOKE TO THE TO SECRETARY OF WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT, NOT OF WHAT THE SENATOR SAID WAS OUTLINED. THEY HAVE NO IDEA WHAT GUIDELINES WOULD BE PUT IN PLACE. IN ADDITION TO THAT, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SERVICES THAT ARE AVAILABLE, THIS IS A THAT WAS DONE BY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES. AND SO, I THINK THE SENATOR MIGHT HAVE GREAT EXPECTATIONS, CAN BE DONE. ON THE GROUND, IT'S NOT THE REALITY. LASTLY, THE INDIVIDUALS GETTING AND IMPLEMENT, NATION -- GETTING UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION, I DON'T KNOW. THIS SEEMS LIKE MORE BIG GOVERNMENT AND A NANNY STATE TO ME. MIKE: LET'S GET INTO THE DISCUSSION ABOUT FOOD SHARE AND WANTING RESTRICTIONS ON THE KIND OF FOOD YOU CAN BUY. I THINK THE ARGUMENT IS YOU COULD HAVE ONE ADDITIONAL FOOD GOING TO PEOPLE USING THE CHAIR BUT ALSO IDS. WHY DO WE NEED THAT IN FOOD SHARE? WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? FRAUD? WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO GET WITH THAT PROPOSAL? DUEY STROEBEL: WITH THE PHOTO ID, THERE IS FRAUD IN THE FOOD SHARE PROGRAM. USING THE EBT CARDS. REALLY, IT IS THERE A SIMPLE, MIKE. ALL IT DOES IS PUT THE PHOTO ON YOUR EBT CARD BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW THERE IS A SECONDARY MARKET IN THESE AND IT IS TO BE SURE WHEN THAT EBT CARD IS AWARDED TO THAT INDIVIDUAL THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL HAS THE BENEFIT OF -- THE PURCHASING POWER THAT IS ON THAT EBT CARD. MIKE: IT'S A FRAUD MEASURE. DUEY STROEBEL: A PHOTO ID. MIKE: DO YOU THINK THERE IS NO FRAUD IN THE FUTURE -- IN THE FOOD SHARE? LENA TAYLOR: I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANYTHING IN THAT INDIVIDUALS TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE SYSTEM NO MATTER WHAT THAT IS. WHETHER THE INDIVIDUAL IS THE USER OF AN EBT CARD. HOWEVER, I THINK THE ISSUE MORE IMPORTANT IS HOW PRACTICAL IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT? FOR THE PARENT TO SAYS -- WHO SENDS THE CHILD TO THE STORE, THAT CREATES THE PROBLEM. I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT IS A SOLUTION AND I SURELY DON'T KNOW, SAY WHAT'S FOR DINNER? I'M NOT GOING TO CALL IT THE SENATOR AND SAY, WHAT'S FOR DINNER? I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD BE MICROMANAGING THE TYPES OF FOODS PEOPLE CAN EAT. WHO DOESN'T WANT PEOPLE TO BUY CHEESE IN THE DAIRY STATE? ALL KINDS OF CHEESE. THIS IS THE KIND OF SUCK THIS BILL DOES. MIKE: IT'S SUPPLEMENTAL AND NUTRITIONAL ASSISTANCE. DUEY STROEBEL: IT'S INTENDED THAT TWO THIRDS OF THAT BE PUT TOWARDS GOOD FOOD GROUPS. NUTRITIONAL FOODS. ONE THIRD YOU CAN DO WHATEVER YOU WANT. WHEN IT IS ASSISTANCE TO PROVIDE FOR YOUR FAMILY, YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU ARE BUYING FOODS THAT ARE HEALTHY. EATING HEALTHY IS NOT -- IT IS A NONPARTISAN ISSUE. EATING HEALTHY IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING WE WANT TO PROMOTE AND I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO PROMOTE THAT. IT IS A SIMPLE THING AND I DON'T THINK IT WILL AFFECT MOST PEOPLE. I WOULD EXPECT MOST PEOPLE, WITH TWO THIRDS OF THEIR STAFF CARDS, THEY DO PURCHASE HEALTHY FOODS. LENA TAYLOR: LET'S SUPPOSE -- LET'S SUPPORT URBAN AG. MIKE: WE WILL HAVE TO WRAP IT UP AND A FAIRLY SHORT PERIOD OF TIME. THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE. WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK FOR SOME OF THE CHANGES ON PUBLIC BENEFITS. FOR INSTANCE, SHOULD THERE BE DRUG TESTS? YOU CAN TELL US BY LIKING AND SHARING "UPFRONT" ON FACEBOOK. NEXT, THE RACE FOR 2016 FROM THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE. THERE'S A NEW CANDIDATE IN THE FIELD. AND IS HILLARY CLINTON THE INEVITABLE NOMINEE, OR COULD HER CANDIDACY BE DERAILED? I'LL ASK ONE OF THE LEADING PROGRESSIVE VOICES IN THE U.S., JOURNALIST AND PUNDIT KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL. THAT'S WHEN "UPFRONT" CONTINUES. ♪