The term sinister is defined as being morally terrible, and along with buzz word selfish, is being widely insinuated as a description for the dedicated individual that puts away food, water, and other necessities for extended periods of time should their families ever be faced with hardship. It would seem that when an individual puts away what they need for a short time, like a few days, this is socially accepted as well as encouraged. Conversely, however, when an individual crosses some arbitrary threshold of too much preparing they get tagged with being a hoarder, as well as some self-serving creep uninterested in the well being of their neighbors, community, state, and country.

Society has somehow slithered into this oddball conception that anything excessive, within their idea of just how much is too much, is not only selfish, but morally depraved. Gone are the days in which people were highly inspired to put away for tomorrow in the off-chance that things become lean and scarce. That kind of thinking has been replaced with the commercial paradigm of “living for the moment” and not thinking about what repercussions may come the next day. This has lead to toxic levels of phantom money floating around in the world of credit and debt for individuals and nations alike. All the while, a paradox exists insofar as how large of a soda an individual can get at their local convenience store or how massive a portion of food can be ordered at a restaurant. It is okay to spend and purchase excessively with credit cards because this is stimulating the economy, but putting away reserve food, water, and other supplies is “not accepted”!?!?

Prepping has fallen into a category in which the masses have come to feel is only acceptable in very modest levels. “Too much” in a person’s home is regarded the same as someone drinking a 64 oz. soda as opposed to a REGULATED maximum size of 12 oz. or 16 oz. for a person’s “own good”.

It is also felt in many communities that someone storing up too much food and supplies is so morally wrong that they have tried to enact laws against it. Normally these are based on health regulations which surmise that too much food breeds rats and other vermin. Code enforcement and health department agencies become involved. Of course this is total nonsense and nothing more than an excuse to further erode basic freedoms and make everyone blindly conform to what THEY deem socially acceptable behavior, even in the privacy of one’s own home.

Naturally, along with condemnation towards those that put away for months or longer, comes the expectation that committed preppers share what they have sacrificed for with everyone in the community around them after a disaster. This is true even with those totally ill-prepared who laughed and mocked the prepper.

For those “generous” individuals willing to share en masse, there is a big problem they need to be aware of. VOLUME. Even with years worth of supplies a family cannot feed an entire neighborhood or community. Check out this simply formula; you can plug in your own numbers to prove this.

Let x= the number of people you have in a survival group.

Let y= the approximate number of days of survival supplies you have.

Let z= the number of additional people equally sharing your supplies.

It goes like this: (x) (y) / (x+z), or x times y divided by x+z = the new number of days of supplies.

Now let’s see how quickly someone’s survival supplies dwindle when divvied up with your broader community – many of whom failed to prepare for anything. Assuming that about 1% of the people prepare, this means that somewhere in the range of about 90 to 100 individuals need what you have prepared for each person in your family. A family of 6 would therefore have to share what they have with 540-600 people that have nothing on the average. Just for argument’s sake, let’s say it is 500 additional mouths that require feeding. Your family of six has stored enough food and supplies for 2 years or 730 days.

x= 6 people, y= 730 days, z= 500.

6 X 730 = 4380.

6 + 500 = 506.

4380 divided by 506 = 8.66 days.

A family that has saved up and gone without commercialized luxury conveniences in order insulate themselves for two years now has not 2 years worth of supplies, but a little over a week’s worth of necessities left if the crowd of moochers continue to leech off of them.

This may seem dramatic (500 people), but even with smaller numbers of additional freeloaders a full house of food can evaporate in very short order.

Many would call it selfish not to share with everyone.

But it’s a principle of basic mathematics.

It’s akin to hundreds of people all trying to fit into a single life raft – it won’t work and everyone sinks, including the life raft.

It is interesting when those in the media and social networks continue to ridicule those who put away what their family may need “later” as having moral deficiencies. Yet those same people who openly condemn preppers put away monetary security in the forms of savings accounts, 401k’s, and stocks for an emergency or retirement. These people are not berated or expected to share what they have with those that don’t when it comes to money. When that same money is exchanged for Made In the USA food products and put away for when someone needs it, just like a saving’s account, the majority of people argue that it is wrong and morally selfish, especially when disaster strikes and they need access to those supplies.

Again, what?

Many individuals feel the only chance for the people after disaster is if the entire community works together as one unit. Unless MOST of them are fully willing to participate as a unit in some sort of mass food and necessities community storage program for dire times, this idealistic thought will fail miserably during INTENSE catastrophes. Without food you will have a bunch of people that won’t be able to function. It is not just storing enough food for the community at large for a week; it has to be for extended periods of time because most people fail to follow through on their promises to prepare individually. It is very unlikely that you’ll be successful in getting most people involved, and the subsequent lack of supplies will be all too apparent when a true disaster strikes.

A sad cynical viewpoint, but all too true about basic human nature, is that MOST PEOPLE ARE JUST ALL TALK.

To prove this about people becoming involved in the community, one only needs to see the actual number of individuals committed versus those who are not. Even in the best organized community, those committed to protecting the city or town at large usually hover at the same percentage as preppers, that magical 1%. Over-enthusiasm often blinds CERT volunteers to seeing the truth that most people just don’t care and will not be there to help. They will only be there to take. Few individuals and little resources in a mega disaster in proportion to dozens of times more people in need sadly becomes a wasted effort. There are exceptions to this and in those places they need to consider themselves to be very fortunate.

For the most part, however, this is a reason why depending on yourself first is the best course of action before, during and after a true disaster.

ANY town, county, state, or country can and will be completely overwhelmed by a true catastrophe. The simple facts are that emergency management in most communities is geared towards responses to “lightweight” SHTF events. Very seldom are plans in place for mega cataclysms in which stability might not be reached for very extended periods of time. Almost all aid organizations presume that outside help and rescue will come within days or a few weeks at the very worst. Throughout the history of civilizations, however, there have been episodes in which no outside help arrived for months or years because no one could. One example of this is WAR. Another is when someone is forced to remain as isolated as possible from the population because there is a very fatal and very contagious disease brewing. Exposure to others in the community during a true pandemic is suicide and usually reserved for those seeking some sort of martyrdom for themselves. Yet another reason why individuals dedicated to long term preparation for extremely difficult and very dangerous times are ALWAYS making a wise choice.

One issue that someone should take into consideration with a survival group or even a community effort is devotion to the cause. Trust is a huge issue here and a primary consideration for people you let into your survival group or those that help you organize some sort of community survival group. There are not too many people actually willing to self sacrifice by putting away much of which is spent on their everyday present pleasures, including their time.

To better illustrate this about true friends or allies, the number of whom you can usually count on one hand, ask yourself this:

“Will that person, at the barest of sacrifice asked upon them, make an excuse for failure to help you?”

“Is that person committed and consistently thinking and considering the survival group’s needs, even when those needs conflict with his or her own self-interests?”

These are difficult and painful questions, the answers to which most people are not willing to admit to themselves about others, especially if we’re personally involved in their lives.

Allowing the wrong person into a survival group of small numbers all the way up to an entire community response unit can be very damaging and hazardous. Humans require some social acceptance and will tell someone exactly what they want to hear, but bail out when needed or worse, turncoat on them.

A CYNICAL philosophy is often the only way to protect a survival group and should not be viewed as selfish and unwilling to allow others into a group. A better word would be ‘extreme caution’. Loyalty is rare and it’s a primary reason for why so many dedicated preppers do not often expand their own groups towards others. It is also a golden reason for why many community emergency organizations will prove to be near useless if and when a true disaster hits an area. TRUST is a very difficult commodity to obtain with other people and is another key reason why smaller survival groups, especially family survival groups, will have a better chance of survival in short and long term scenarios.

Okay you say, but what about actually using human selfishness to your advantage to form survival response teams in the community? The big problem with this is that unless an area has been devastated, the people are likely to lose interest quickly. Society today has far too many distractions and most people’s attention span is usually quite limited. Besides this, most people just don’t want to be bothered, because they feel it will never happen to them. Emergency management personal will scoff at this, but if they are truly honest with themselves and look at the actual numbers, there simply aren’t enough truly dedicated people.

People don’t take emergencies or disasters seriously. After all, they’ve been convinced that the government and FEMA can clean it all up and make everything like it never even happened. “Everything will recover and things will return to normal no matter what happens, because it always has in the past.” This type of thinking after a mega disaster will leave most in mass graves and statistics for some future history book. Anyone who believes the majority of the masses are dependable and will come to help is fooling themselves.

What, then, is the answer?

The individual and family has to take personal responsibility for making sure that they have a sufficient amount of what they personally require stored up to use when needed. They should ignore the ignorant social rhetoric about committed preppers being selfish and morally wrong just because they plan and save up as much as possible. The more survival goods you can obtain, the more security you will have during minor inconveniences, as well as events that are much, much worse.

Sharing of survival goods is a very personal choice when disaster strikes. After the work and sacrifice of saving, most preppers find themselves more apt to trade what they have for what they need rather than just giving it away. However, there is also strong belief in charity – even if it is anonymous – in the prepper community, and many take it upon themselves to store extra supplies in anticipation of this. Those who call preppers selfish are almost never the type of individuals that openly give what they have to everyone that is needy. These totally less than saints, hypocrites, usually cannot stand the humble life of the prepper/survivalist who takes the initiative to not fall into the commercialism of money spent on vastly overpriced junk that lacks any good quality or useful purpose. The prepper/survivalist usually avoids the flash and glitter and only purchases what is needed and functional.

I leave everyone with this thought about who is actually selfish and morally off:

Is it the person who demands sparkling jewelry and other trinkets, expensive gadgets, flashy automobiles, designer clothes and shoes that run in the hundreds of dollars, Christmas gifts (lots of them) in the most elegant wrapping paper – in other words a total superficial “look at what I’ve got” attitude?

OR, is it the prepper/survivalist who spends resources on food, storage units, self defense, everyday necessities, safe secure places to retreat to during emergencies, warm clothes and blankets, and practical items so their family will not have to suffer – in other words a lifestyle of simple pragmatic saving for tomorrow in which family members self sacrifice for each other out of caring for each other’s well being?

You be the judge of who in society is selfish and who is lacking in moral and spiritual character.

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As for the article? A-yup. It was one of the biggest things I had to wrestle with mentally… you have a neighborhood full of people, but few if any are prepared.

The best solution I could come up with on a practical level is to know your neighbors as deeply as possible, and be on as friendly terms as possible now, before things get ugly. Then, you organize your local neighborhood and take charge of it (that, or you and whatever fellow preppers in your neighborhood take charge) as things are coming to a head.

Get the neighborhood sheeple sorted so you know who stays and who should go. Get them out there en masse to buy/scrounge/whatever as much as they can lay hands on as things really come crashing down. Teach them what local plants and animals are edible. Help them build up defenses, make some sort of safe heating arrangements, and in general start organizing. Use your charity stores to anonymously bolster those select neighbors that you know will be most valuable to your own continued survival.

Certainly we’re talking a moral septic tank here – slurping up supplies from the nearby stores (even if you’re throwing money at the cashier on your way out) is going to be ‘selfish’ in that you’re sucking out all the supplies for your own neighborhood use, but honestly? There’s still one big, fat uncomfortable fact: once it’s gone, that’s all there is, and it would be infinitely preferable that your neighborhood have it than some pack of gang-bangers or worse.

Definitely we’re talking about having to make do with a bad situation, and you’re going to still worry about one of your neighbors doing something stupid and turning against you. On the other hand, it’s better than nothing, and IMHO infinitely better than trying to fend off the world all by yourself.

You may not be able to have a neighborhood full of prepped and well-trained/highly-skilled families, but at least you’ll have something to go on.

Sadly, I think that’s pretty much the only hope you have, barring relocation to a purely survival-oriented community out in BFE.

I wrote about it in the book (check this site for “Beyond Collapse”). The neighbors that get driven out are those who are drug addicts, obvious hotheads, and the like. Basically, folks that would put you in danger anyway. Also, you’re not doing it alone… the whole neighborhood has to get together and do it.

I think the Pilgrims tried the collectivist thing the first year (you know, when 1/2 of them died the first winter). Always waaaay more takers than givers. Takers are the first ones to berate and ridicule someone for “being selfish”, even in “normal” times. We all know them. Make mental notes now, and be honest with yourself. Many of us will face gut-wrenching decisions in a large-scale crisis.

they ridiculed noah right up to the time the door closed on the ark, i think all situations will be different for every one ,but my first allegence is to my family ,if you jump in the water to save a drowning person there is the risk that you may also drown ,but if you jump in the water to save a crowd from drowning they will surely pull you under

When you get everyone together, you have to organize ‘em. Part of this is telling them what’s going on, and getting them to go buy/procure/whatever their supplies.

Unlike the 1605 Jamestown settlement (which is what you were thinking of), folks by that point are going to have realized what’s going down, and most of them will be scared enough to take action to procure food and supplies for themselves.

Sinister, selfish, morally depraved, HELL NO ! Not when you have tried to convince your friends for over 20 years, they need to prep, because something might happen. And all you get is made fun of or get jokes made about you. While the hole time they lick up MSNBC and fall for all that Obama donkey shit, and try to tell you, dont you feel guilty, and are’nt you happy we now have a black president. Those that dont prep, I feel they have been warned , and they do nothing , oh well, you can only try so much. So no, I dont feel Sinister or Selfish or morally depraved I feel Justified ! And they think the gooberment is going to help what a freaking joke. Look at the past, look at now………………………………………………………………………………..

Morality is defined by one’s culture, philosophy, or religion. Since “America is no longer a Christian nation” right and wrong are no longer based upon Biblical principles which are not taught to the general populace.

Within our current culture preppers are immoral. Anyone who has a surplus (regardless of the sacrifice made) is considered rich and it is deemed morally depraved not to distribute wealth from each according to his ability to each according to his need. Some preppers are selfish, but some intend to throw upon the storehouse for the greater good.

I will do this without advance notice in the event of a localized temporary disaster because my morality is governed by the Bible. Jesus commanded me to “give to those who ask and not turn away those who want to borrow” (Matthew 5:42). The Apostle Paul later said “anyone who does not provide for his own family is worse than an unbeliever.” The key to balancing the two is to keep my mouth shut so I will not be a target, designate 10% of my provisions for charity, and distribute that anonymously through the church when the time comes.

“For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, If any will not work, neither let him eat.” 2 Thess 3:10

And also the parable of the virgins “25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them.4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps.5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out. 9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

Be like the wise, and prepare. No one is obligated to give what they have set aside to people who would not prepare for themselves.

Good time to brush up on your makeup skills. Buy make up that will make you look starved and unhealthy. Get the techniques down now while you have the chance and not when your back is against the wall. By camouflaging yourself and looking like everybody else, you’ll slink by and not have a spot light put on you.

In the old days it was considered good form to just put their heads on a pole, old ways are the best. Also think on this: Mobs prey on everyone, even the mob, so if it comes to it, the breakdown will be fast. A few people might face large numbers but most won’t. Look at the numbers. Even if ALL deaths are caused by one on one violance, average person only has five up or down fights. 300 Mill goes to 150 goes to 75 ,+-40 ,20 ,10. I don’t think it’s going to come to this but if it does the citys will burn out very fast,, leaving a lot of supplies for us country people.

As for being in a wilderness that is exactly where our retreat community is and while some uninvited guests may make their way into the mountains, they should arrive in small enough increments that our organized defenses can mitigate the threat.

Pastor, I live on 50 wooded acres in East TH mountains — been prepping for a while. Do you know a good source for ideas concerning traps when shtf? Treble hooks in trees …….. any books etc. that are informative for this type of passive defense?

You know, I’ve been thinking the same thing myself about this impending collapse. Even the Mad Max movies, as I understand them (haven’t seen the first one, only the latter two) suggested that civilization broke down step by step rather than all at once, and this even though the third movie indicated there had in fact been a nuclear war.

A more concrete historical example of civilization collapsing would be the ever-popular fall of Rome, which did have some notable catastrophic events associated with it (e.g. Alaric the Visigoth sacking Rome), but which consisted much more of a gradual decay into lawlessness with the Emperor legislating more and more and being obeyed less and less. For instance, looting a public building for building materials (sort of similar to what copper thieves do today) was theoretically punished by having both of one’s hands cut off. However, near the end, people all over the Roman empire were breaking off pieces of public buildings for their own use with impunity since the government’s enforcers couldn’t be everywhere at once.

The very name of this site suggests a kind of huge disaster that strikes all at once, like an earthquake or storm or stock market panic, but I do see far greater odds that the collapse we’re anticipating is more like the proverbial fan being gradually clogged with fecal matter rather than suddenly smacked with it. Our civilization has recovered before from large-scale disasters such as the Chicago fire, California earthquakes, Hurricanes Andrew and Katrina, and the like, after all. A few more aren’t likely to be what destroys this nation.

A more likely model for collapse I’m seeing is what’s happening to places like Detroit and Chicago and L.A. right now: as crime goes increasingly unpunished and criminal gangs roam the streets, the “good citizens” also begin to ignore the laws, leading to a quieter and yet just as chaotic descent into anarchy. They stop paying their mortgages, stop paying taxes, start gaming the welfare system for every penny they can get from it, and generally do anything they have a reasonable expectation of doing without getting caught. We only hear about these criminals’ worst excesses, such as rapes and murders and gang violence and child abuse. Yet the welfare fraud and petty financial delinquency may well be contributing far more to our civilization’s collapse than these more sensational incidents.

As such, the collapse may indeed come more as a whimper than a bang, the big precipitating event we’ve all been expecting turning out to be nothing more exciting than the failure of EBT cards to buy their users much of anything anymore, or a rising tide of mortgage defaults in all major and minor cities, or the increasing inability of a huge percentage of the population to pay their rising utility bills as the price of energy “necessarily” skyrockets. This may ultimately result in violent upheaval and the destruction of the old order, but not necessarily in such a climactic manner as one sees in disaster movies.

It might be more like Detroit’s collapse specifically right now: first the lawlessness and enforcers telling people they’re on their own, then the bankruptcy, and (probably coming soon) dis-incorporaton and depopulation. The very same thing happened to a lot of Roman cities near the end, and I can easily see how this could lead to roving bands of thugs abandoning their wasted cities of origin in search of any place that may still have any resources left worth plundering, thereby extending the wastelands they leave in their wake to all the country. If that’s what happens, then Washington D.C. may end up just like the city of Rome: sacked and plundered only AFTER it had already lost most of its control over its citizens.

When those people start handing over my Ipad, my new clothes, my free dinner at the restaurant they eat at, and all the rest of MY share of whatever they’re having, then ‘ll pass out some rice and beans when TSHTF.

I see people who don’t prep as I see people who don’t have health insurance. When they need help, I won’t personally foot the bill. I know that my taxes and the cost of my hospital visits will partially pay for their mistake… If shtf,then I will refer any non-preps to the nearest federal building or church…

NoByter: In response they will tell everyone they can find about all the great and wonderful things you have and how you selfishly refuse to share. They will be back with a hundred just like them also with multiple gun points.

This is why I try to help my neighbors now. It was slow going, but I think all the stuff on TV about prepping and my help with spare geny and other things during power outages. Why I use my tractor to clear them out during snow storms. I live in a rural community. Why we have plans for multiple caches, SOPs, LP/OPs, CP, QRF, fall back locations. We don’t plan to defend a house, we plan on defending a community. We don’t plan on telescoping our preps to anyone outside the community. The only thing they will see is a person with a gun (if they attempt to enter gate). We plan on stopping anybody before they can even see a house. They might need more than a hundred…

“You be the judge of who in society is selfish and who is lacking in moral and spiritual character.”

I think that we already know the answer to this one, even though the world has gone topsy-turvy!!!! However, accusations of being selfish, no morals and lacking spiritual character are to incriminate the prepared and make those not prepared somehow feel better when they attempt to “steal” the provisions you have acquired!

As always, the general ‘Ethical’ standard involved, that promoted by the MSM, the Government and others, the one that is ‘acceptable’ broadly, is the one defined by the interest of the Corp and ‘Capitalism’ as it has come to be defined….not the individual who works to provide for thier First Resposibilities. Thanks for the clear insight into this.

“Many individuals feel the only chance for the people after disaster is if the entire community works together as one unit. Unless MOST of them are fully willing to participate as a unit in some sort of mass food and necessities community storage program for dire times, this idealistic thought will fail miserably during INTENSE catastrophes.”

Unfortunately, about the ONLY large ‘community’ I can think of that is promoting food storage to EVERYONE is the Mormons.

The Bible supports being prepared.

A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
Proverbs 22:3

In the house of the wise are stores of choice food and oil, but a foolish man devours all he has.
Proverbs 21: 20

Look at Joseph. God used a heathen ruler (Pharaoh) who had a dream that Joseph interpreted as a warning of 7 years of prosperity, to be followed by 7 years of severe famine.

Most people who call themselves Christians today, had they been in the same situation, would have gone merrily on their way with their rose colored glasses on, talking about how God would provide for them when the bad years come…….. and not do a thing to prepare.

Joseph sprang into action and began prepping. And notice that when TSHTF, Joseph did not just give the food that Pharaoh had stored up away. People paid for their folly. (This should be a lesson for those who think that they are entitled to the possessions of others.)

I believe that God has given all of us ample warning of what is to come. He didn’t do that so we can sit on our hands to just “have faith and trust God….and do nothing”. God shows people things so that they can take action. Real faith ALWAYS inspires and produces action.

Thanks for that, KY Mom. And to Be Informed, another one out of the park! Excellent.

The last two years at the okie compound have been a struggle. The drought, and especially the intense summer heat, has all but wiped out our gardens. Some of the stored foods have already been pressed into service. Still, we replace them as best we can. And, like most Americans, our standard of living has gone down for 4 years running. But, we’re thankful for what we have. And we keep doing whatever we can to be self sufficient and not put a burden on others.

Our preps are modest, but probably enough to get us by for a year or so. And we’ll keep trying to maintain and increase them. We don’t have a titanium lined bunker filled with tons of freeze dried. We don’t have enough weapons and ammo to wage even a small war. We don’t have enough of those cool real-tree camo outfits to even supply the entire family militia. (some of those less fortunate among us have to go through training exercises in jeans and John Deere caps) But, for the folks out there who do have all that, I don’t see you as selfish at all. To me, you’re not wacko, sinister or any kind of threat. You’re just one of the meighbors I don’t have to worry about feeding or defending. Wish there were more like you!

aint’t that the truth and the sad part is their TOTAL UNWILLINGNESS to even imagine that our govtment couldn’t give a rat’s ass about them and where is the concern for THEIR OWN FAMILY? Surely they dont EXPECT a “handout”from someone that they’ve never bothered to discuss a SHTF scenario with,but then again,they’ve been conditioned to handouts of sorts.

The key words in this article are “The masses” these are the people that must grasp on to a mob in order to feel empowered.In their ignorance they believe what the many (mob) believe must of course be true, there laziness to think ahead and prepare is just an excuse for irresponsibility.

They want all the thinking for them done from the top, they want the balancing of accounts left to a social authority, and all the while what they scream for only makes them weaker which is exactly what big Government welcomes.

It’s our individuality they fear, our willingness to see the world for what it is, we understand that something is just not right and it offends their delusion.

“It’s our individuality they fear, our willingness to see the world for what it is, we understand that something is just not right and it offends their delusion.“

VERY well said, y99. The offending of their illusion really gets under their skin and this is the reason for the criticism. Were they to admit that there is a shred of reason for this, the whole sweater unravels.

Ignore them. Why do we care what they think? We know their normalcy bias will kill them in the end. There may be some that are redeemable. This is the reason for extra and sharing, however, most are not.

Some have said you need to hide. Some say you need to defend it. I plan to do both. It will take all your skill. Hide when appropriate. Shoot when appropriate. May The Creator give us the wisdom to know the difference.

Why do you repeat yourself? I would say that nearly all of those that would think of the term “evil republicans” would say they are the only “racists” too. I find that If one displays any of the following attributes you are assumed to have all the others:

Get a hit on ONE of those and most people think you automatically. The cattle that is our population have been trained by the lamestream media like Pavlov’s dog to recognize any of the above and just assume if you have one, you have the rest and you are THE ENEMY of civilization.

Yet, I find liberals in my area are the most racist and anti-women’s rights people around. But, the common media perception pigeon holes people.

I’m finding that the whole idea is to keep us all suspicious of one another so we’re never able to mount a true, organized political offense against the one party system. Oh, I know they say you have “Republicans” and “Democrats” (which often don the labels “conservative” and “liberal”) but in reality, those are NOT the parties. There’s just one party: BIG GOVERNMENT and at that party, The People lose.

As I’ve said before: we should not care. (This REALLY upsets them.) Because their actions, world views and paradigms are not based on fact but rather on media “perception”, a worldview that is fake-money centric. I think probably the thing that upsets these globalist/governmentalists the most is that we, as preppers, recognize real value in things and we realize that the FRNs that we use to trade for things of real value are WORTHLESS and are a con-game.

Wouldn’t you, if you were part of TPTB, just hate it when some of your brainwashed herd figures out how to get out of the fence you didn’t build and escape from the land you don’t own? Face it, TPTB are squatters on OUR land. But, they want us to believe that we are the squatters and they, by their good graces, are “taking care of us” and anyone who sees the truth and follows it in an ungrateful bastard. In reality, it is just the opposite. If you appreciate what the founders did, you’ll fight this evil that has invaded our governments and incorporated them and dehumanized them.

Once you realize that each human being is sovereign from birth, you realize the entire structure of government corporation is designed to keep that secret from you while at the same time trying to convince you that it is there to protect you.

Just remember: The most dangerous thing is government. In history, nothing has killed, raped, destroyed, poisoned, murdered, sickened, embezzled, stolen or spoiled as much as government. And, if you look at the US Government in history, there is not even a close challenger to its sinister top position. You can call me anti-government if you want but I say if you don’t see this you just refuse to look at the facts.

I don’t have time to be sinister, selfish and definitely I don’t have the time or the desire to be morally depraved. I’m too busy trying to scratch out a living and paying the taxes for the benefit of the sinister, selfish and morally depraved segment of our society and those that they give my hard worked for taxes to.

What do you guys think of the upper middle class suburbanite who watches a few discovery channel shows and decides to buy a $2,000 AR, a $4,000 prepackaged Sam’s club 1 year food supply for four, and a pound or so of gold for the safe? All while still swimming in debt on the house and driving leased cars.

If you frame the issue as the noble humble prepper vs. the dumb wastrel non-prepper then of course the prepper comes out smelling like a rose. But does fearing SHTF make you noble and humble? Maybe there are plenty of rich a-hole, throw-money-at-every-problem simpletons with 3 times the supplies you have. Maybe it could become a fad or status symbol.

I figure there are going to be selfish and unselfish in every walk of life. How one assesses the risks in times to come says nothing about their ethics or moral standards.

To answer your first part I’d say if you prep out of fear on borrowed time you’ll always be on borrowed time.

2nd, Courage can be defined by overcoming ones fear through action.

3rd, each individual prepper must decide when to be generous (unselfish) and that to will require courage. “Prepare for the worst and hope for the best” comes to mind, I myself will help some but we must realize that each time we help it could be the Devil himself.

Along these same lines, how many noble, humble preppers are there on food stamps with months of food in storage right now? Why wait for the EOTW when you can be sinister, selfish, and morally depraved today?

I Encourage you All TOO LOOK FOR HOLES IN YOUR HOME / SELF PROTECTION PLANS , CHOICE OF FIREARMS AND EQUIPMENT !

YOUR MULTIPLE HOSTILE LOOTERS GANG ATTACKERS MAY BE ARMED WITH AK-47′s semi-auto COMBAT RIFLES … they might be wearing body armor … HOW DO YOU PLAN TO COUNTER THAT IN YOUR HOME OR STORE OR ON THE STREET ???

I suggest you All pick-up 2-3 Concealed carry Compact FireArms designed for high 12-15 round magazine capacity that pack enough “punch” 1200 fps or greater to defeat multiple Attackers wearing body armor . *(remember to buy a good laser beam flashlight or two also for indoor night time shooting) .

2 to the body and 1 to the head… reassess the situation. Look left, right, left and repeat as needed.

If you are forced to fire while not behind cover, revert to your training of moving toward cover as you fire. I take my moving shots as I roll over the ball of my left foot while moving right and reverse it for moving left.

The famous Bank of America robbery.North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily bank robbers (Larry Eugene Phillips, Jr. and Emil Dechebal Matasareanu) with armer piercing rounds and patrol and SWAT officers of the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) on February 28, 1997, at a Bank Of America teler-office.Two suspects were killed, and 15 people, including 10 cops were injured. None of the injuries turned out to be “life threatening”, Los Angeles Police Chief Willie Williams said. Although only the suspects were killed, the sheer number of injuries made this one of the bloodiest single cases of violent crime in the 1990s, and one of the most significant single bank robberies of the 20th century.

When four armed criminals boldly invaded a house in broad daylight, the homeowner quickly changed their minds by firing on them from inside the home, wounding one. The would-be intruders quickly reversed course and fled as the homeowner’s private video security system captured the scene.

@N.O. Response : The Scenario I described is Based on Actual Facts of Real continually increasing Home Invasions , Kidnappings and Robberies that happen Daily All Across tax debt enslaved AmeriKa … “You” just don’t SEE nor HEAR of it on the ZOG controlled M.S.M. alphabet NEWS SHOWS !

I Advise All Preppers too install solid anchored to door inner frame deadbolts , learn how to emergency “Katy bar the door” with precut 2×6′s “it works” , establish a inner central “home safe room” with deadbolt locks and install anti-robbery/ theft bars on all first floor windows of their residence to deter thieves in the hard economic times coming . And they are coming in just less than a month actually , it starts January 2013 .

ALOT OF RETIRES OF GOING TO BE HOMELESS LOOSE THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND OTHER RETIREMENT PLANS . 401K’s will be Nationalized SEIZED by the ZOG FEDGOV to buy up AmeriKa’s 10′s of Trillions of debt and growing !

IT”S TRULY THE GREAT CULLING OF THE AMERIkAN MIDDLE CLASS HERD , THOSE WHO POISE THE GREATEST THREAT TO THE PTB NWO ZOG Global Control … history shows us it is the Educated Self Sufficient Middle-Class Tradesman Worker who poises the greatest threat to Fascist Socialist Marxist Banker DickTatorship !

That is why the AmeriKan Middle Class is being DELIBERATELY destroyed by the NWO ZOG U.N. GLOBALISTS across the globe .

Me and my older sister were home alone back in the 70′s. Some jackass decided to throw the ladder up to the 2nd floor, open bedroom window. My sister stood there by the window until the guy got to the top of the ladder, then she reached out and pushed the ladder backwards…The guy hit the driveway pretty hard. Our town was too small to have 911 yet. By the time we let the dog out, there was really no need to call anybody—unless it was a street sweeper…

@D Quote : “The scenario you describe is alarmingly realistic .”@N.O. Response : The Scenario I described is Based on Actual Facts of Real continually increasing Home Invasions , Kidnappings and Robberies that happen Daily All Across tax debt enslaved AmeriKa … “You” just don’t SEE nor HEAR of it on the ZOG controlled M.S.M. alphabet NEWS SHOWS !

I Advise All Preppers too install solid anchored to door inner frame deadbolts , learn how to emergency “Katy bar the door” with precut 2×6′s “it works” , establish a inner central “home safe room” with deadbolt locks and install anti-robbery/ theft bars on all first floor windows of their residence to deter thieves in the hard economic times coming . And they are coming in just less than a month actually , it starts January 2013 .

This aspect of our upcoming relocation (godwilling it’s within the next 6 months). Where I am currently, I KNOW the movers, shakers & moochers in my current locale. I don’t trust many, but I know who has my back iykwim. We’ve seen each other through abandonment, bereavement, redundancy, babies falling seriously ill at 2 am etc, etc. Just those every day hard times that demonstrate to you clearly who your real friends are iykwim. (I have the memory of an elephant & learn my lessons).

Those I’ll be working closely with if SHTF have the same wary attitude to the ladies that run our residents association as I do, eg they are a HUGE risk, that will need to be mitigated asap. A far, far greater risk than any street gangs given their sense of self-entitlement, & non-stop messing in the business of others. When push comes to shove they’d sell their own Grandmothers out to whoever could provide them with a hot meal, and the concept of real work is one they’ve never understood.

When I move, all that “people knowledge” will be gone. I need to move, as medium – long term London is as stupid a place to remain long term as New York. I know that.

I freely admit I’m terrified of starting afresh in a new area without that gut deep knowledge of who has got my back. There are mistakes I’ve made in trusting people over the years, that I hope I’ve learned from but when shtf an error that in normal times would just be upsetting, could leave my child an orphan. That terrifies me.

As for the selfish argument? It’d be far more selfish for me to allow my family to suffer because I wanted the latest igadget & to keep up with the Jones, when I could see the train coming towards me.

I don’t like to give advice so I am just going voice ( type ) some thoughts. You can really only shoot one gun at a time. If you have the right combination of arms you can handle most situations. And not to many people can fight of an army by themselves. Maybe think escape and evade/live to fight another day ( or just live ).

12 gauge. good start. If a short barrel try some quick target shots. If a long barrel try shooting some skeet ( 2 or 3 at a time ). Skeet is not that expensive and is very addictive. Great skills practice.

A glock 17 holds 17 rounds of 9mm. A glock 19 holds 15 rounds of 9mm. Both guns run about $500.00 each online. 500 rounds of 9mm ammo is about $125 online. Both guns come with 2 mags. A glock 21 in .45 ACP holds 13 rounds, if it is not to much gun for you. It seems you love 45 or hate it. ( I love it )

A decent AR15 is about $700. 1000 rounds of ammo is about $350 online. You can buy a replacement stock legally that allows for rapid fire for about $350. ( I don’t plan on getting one but they are available ). Good Magpul 30 round mags about $15 bucks each.

I know these items may seem expensive depending on ones budget. These items would fix you right up if you are having concerns. A little at a time adds up like any other prep.

I am “NOT” starting a gun selection debate. Just thoughts from my experience. I hope this helps the thought precess if nothing else and I hope this was not offensive to you or anyone else.

assuming alot of rubbish , are we dk? at least we dont have federal spies intentionally looking to take guns away. Alot of you yankees would be VERY surprised at some of the firearms some canadians have. as daisy pointed out, handguns can be very difficult to get and even harder to get the ammo. however, they are still out there. i mean if it comes down to these military high caliber and bombs and all sorts of goodies, there is no way i can compete. I choose to live in a very rural area and try to avoid dealing with this.

First, the 12 gauge is horrendously scary while looking at it from the wrong end. It will do far more physical damage than just about anything else out there. Police departments have used it as the primary “go to” weapon for years and years. As a result of the availability of different type rounds available, you can kill quail or buffalo efficiently.

Lastly, you need to routinely practice with a pistol to be efficient. With a 12, a first time shooter can disperse a large crowd without effort as it’s the Kodak of firearms – just point and shoot. Close is far more than enough to deter just about anything or anybody.

Don’t sell the 12 gauge short, with a little training it’s a bad, bad, boy from 0 ft, out to a 100 yds. If I could just have 1 gun (1 gun, that’s funny) it would be a 12 gauge, Remington 870 with a magazine extension, 20 inch barrel, light sling, and slug sights. Maybe a flashlight mounted on it if I’m trying to get my pimp on.

They are well made, parts are readily available, light weight, low maintenance, will make a very large hole and will shoot completely through a car – not just a car but a 70′s model 4 door… well now it’s a 3 1/2 door.

My point being - awesome home protection, just not as practical as a pistol to carry around the house or while in the yard. When I’m working the forge or building fence etc I’ll lean my 12 against a nearby tree in lieu of leaving a high dollar pistol in a sweat filled pocket.

you can also rig a line of fire with a pressurized canister of a flamable liquid, that you can manually activate from your perimeter watch, preferably paint thinner or mineral spirits (they last longer than gasoline) that can be activated to “mist” the perp. Then simply fire a flare from that newly acquired signal flare pistol you just bought online by mail order, and have a fuckin weenie roast, right in your driveway……….;)

dead on! I don’t know where to start, this is one of two things I try to tell everyone, maybe you could comment on in the future: the tactics being used by preppers for long term survival is off. In time any static defense can and will be overwhelmed. Even with minimum casualties a small group cannot afford to be involved in any armed engagement, only way to survive is to not be seen, smelled or heard.

A Detroit City Council member believes President Obama should bail out the Motor City because a large majority of the voters in the city chose him in the 2012 election, . City Council member JoAnn Watson believes the 75 percent of Wayne County voters who backed the president’s reelection bid should be rewarded. As someone who studies politics, I see Watson’s comments as being reflective of the pay-for-play political environment the city needs to finally get away from.

Pay taxes? Form an LLC doing something you enjoy out of your house or electronic storefront, the price varies by State but it’s generally around a 100 bucks. Buy whatever products at wholesale and subsequently deduct the costs of just about everything else in your life. Prep at wholesale prices while you even deduct the price of the computer you are working on! Very few start ups make profit the first few years. Personally I’d prefer to upgrade my computer, car, office space anything other than give it away… deduct, deduct, deduct, write off, and deduct some more!

I know you said that to make a point it’s just the thought of not getting all of your money back and then some that makes me queeezy!!!!

Their vote means nothing. There was nobody running who gave a crap about the outsourcing of America’s productive capacity. Especially any neocon candidate. Real conservatives are long gone and the obummer bashing is childish. We are far past this. You will learn this.

i see the stories of parts of cities like Detroit becoming lawless and gang ruled, people with engineering degrees and years of experience that cant find work and I know the US is going to get worse.

So, now I save money at higher rates than ever, spend less than ever and have committed to be the most reliable person at work 24/7/365 everything else be damed and in my spare time have committed to making my work skills the best possible so that if i’m laid off; i’ll have the best chance possible to get another job.

am i selfish that i am doing everything i can to be responsible for myself and those i care for while the world is heading for an economic collapse, you bet your ass i’m selfish !

Perhaps we may introduce the concept of the “gray man” into the conversation? You make yourself NOT stand out in a crowd… meaning that if everyone smells bad, you have to smell bad. If everyone else is dropping weight, you have to at least look like you are dropping weight (baggier clothes). You learn not to advertise your resources.

We all know that in a real SHTF scenario, we would likely see a wave of robberies because of the local low-lifes, but those low-lifes would not likely last long trying to plunder the middle-class suburbs as most people have firearms. I’m willing to bet that most neighborhoods would band together to form watch groups very quickly. The next stage would be the organized criminals running their syndicates versus military. The military has already stated they will not disobey their oath of service (against carrying out any unconstitutional orders), and most military surveyed said that if there were any attempt to do things to the rest of the population, they would likely break ranks and go home to protect their families.

The mass media is controlled… we know that… and they will absolutely say any stupid thing to support the fascist line fed to them to purvey to us! That includes putting away extra groceries against an emergency. They want everyone on their knees and ready to be exterminated.

Very telling I think, that the government is more worried about private citizens being able to provide for their own needs in the event of a disaster, than of being able to provide for citizens who are not prepared.

I’d say refusing to prepare for tomorrow, refusing to be part of the solution, refusing to deny yourself your iPhones and fancy gadgets, and then villainizing those who do, and demanding they “share” with you, is the utmost of selfishness.

Dude77, you are spot on. The selfish, childish, spoiled little brats among us who have the finances to prepare themselves couldn’t possibly live withou their toys. They need to find a new kind of “toy” that will possibly save their sorry ass one day…………regardless of what happens………….never mind, there’s a ballgame on TV………

I have been laughed at by 90% of my friends that are not mormon for prepping. I live in a mormon community that opens thier arms to anyone willing to learn and they have taught me a lot. I in return have taught canning and food storage for those willing to help themselves. I have done without movies and many other things to plan for 20 people for one year and feel good about what I have done! I will be in hiding when the 90% figure it out! They are not my problem. Selfish, you bet, I have grandchilden!

Why don’t people realize this? After this sensational piece was bandied about the interwebs, would it not be prudent to store up A BUNCH of extra fuel?

This woman will be the first one at your door to say, “You have to help me or I’ll die.” even though a week before she was probably too busy to read the prepper flyer that you were handing out.

God helps those who help themselves. I’ve been told over and over that we are God’s hands and feet. As such, I will help those who help themselves. I am commited. Show some sense and some initiative and you’re liable to find a 2 liter bottle of wheat nearby. …or a 5 of gas. …or whatever you need.

I would have had the opposite reaction if this same woman had said, “Please help us! We were stupid! We thought we had enough fuel. Can anyone help us, please?”

Ask with a humble heart and an earnest attitude and the power of God’s hands will lift you up and set you on dry land.

What’s absolutely incredible about that video is that this woman’s pleading is at the THREE day mark. I seriously don’t understand how anyone can be so short-sighted to not have all their needs met for at least three days, to the point of begging on the street for everything, including clothes. Hell, I often wear the same clothes for a week or more just to practice. No big deal AT ALL.

Sinister, selfish and morally depraved…sounds like the title to this weeks #1 HipHop song.

Hey, Mr DJ, can you play me a tune?

Play Selfish Sinister and play it real soon,

I got my Homeys and we’re here at the mall,

We gonna git some stuff, we takin’ it all.

Meanwhile, my student driver almost got himself tossed off my truck yesterday. He tuned in a rap station while we were parked at the fuel islands. I came back out from the truck stop and heard it.

“Now listen! You can grind all the gears you want. You can scream down the mountains at 70 mph. You can fly by the weigh stations and forget to pull in. Hell, you can even get out and pee on the trailer tires when nobody’s looking. But you can NOT play rap music in this truck! Is that understood?!”

First time he’d seen me lose my cool and it startled him. “Uh,…sure. No problem.”

“Ok. Now for the choice of musical entertainment: You can play AM, FM, CDs and MP3s. You can listen to Elvis, Lead Zepplin, Frank Sinatra, The Beach Boys, Patsy Cline, Hank Jr OR Sr, or the Georgia Satellites. You can play Alvin and the Chipmunks, AC/DC or anything in between. Black Sabbath or Barry Manilow. There’s a wide range there. The only thing I absolutely forbid, is rap.”

“Ok, okie. But I never seen you so upset. What’s so bad about rap music?”

“First, it aint really music. It’s noise, and a very poor quality of noise at that. Second, it can flatten the tiny little hairs in the inner ear, I think they’re called cochlea, and make you go deaf. It has someting to do with the frequency of sound vibrations that it’s recorded at. ALL rap music is like that. You ever notice how many of your buddies look at you and say ‘Huh?’ while listening to rap?”

He nodded, as if he’d just learned something important. I went on, “Also, and this is VERY important for a professional driver to know- those same sound vibration frequencies used in rap music, can really screw up the electronics on a truck. They interfere with the sensors and they can even bleed over into the fuel monitoring electronics, completely shutting off the fuel flow to the engine.”

He looked like an incredulous little kid. “Are you serious?”

“Absolutely! I’ve lost count of how many big rigs I’ve seen on the end of a tow hook, all from rap music. I think Tupac and that 50cent guy are the worst. Their record companies should be sued for all the breakdowns and towing costs. Sadly, most drivers never realize what caused the problem.”

He looked thoughtful for a bit, then said, “Say, okie, that country superstars album you got wasn’t too bad. Can we listen to whats-his-name, Garth Haggard again?

He’s a good kid, really. And he might even make a decent driver (with another million miles of training). “Sure thing. Garth Haggard coming right up. And after that we’ll play some Loretta McEntire or something…”

Good points, Oak. I cut my teeth on 50′s & 60′s country because of my Dad and some of my uncles. I shed my baby teeth on Elvis, Beetles (other British groups), early R & B, and Rockabilly because of Mom and her younger girlfriends. I have even delved into jazz and Bluegrass a few times. I enjoy Motown so much that I could have been born black and turned white over the years. The point is, I like all music that is music and not some cheap imitation of it by ranting out BS in rhymes, like rap. I could actually handle the instruments and a little “scratchin” every now and then if there were no lyrics. But, I HATE rappppp.

WTF is up with the new country musicians “selling out” their talents by adding rap tunes to their play lists? This rap slanted country sucks. I for one, will not spend a dime to buy “any” of their music.

You are living proof that one thing people will need when the times get really tough is humor. You have a way of keeping things light here, amidst the predictions of a hard future and talk of turmoil a-coming. Mac may be getting a chat room online down the road, and I hope to see you there. You are a blessing to us here.

Of coure many preppers are morally depraved. If/when the SHTF, it is the preppers with their guns that will be the oppressors of those who do not have guns. Preppers will also ue their stores as a means to gain sexual favors from this without.

Dammit boy! Is perverted-masochism a genetic trait in your family tree? You certainly are a glutton-for-punishment, methinks. You continually post to the contrary mindset here at SHTFplan & get your ass handed to you, in spades.

I am concerned for your mental health…because only a liberal sociopath would attempt to plant the seed of sexual-gain in the minds of the upstanding folks on these threads & then accuse them of harboring such ideas. You are one sick piece of shit.

Please post your home address so I can hunt you down & oppress the shit out of you…before the balloon goes up. We’ll call it an attitude adjustment, ok?

@ JoeInNC. You have read for a long time on this site, you have seen how truly helpful the people are here when someone needs advice. You have seen the outpouring of support when someone is ailing or in need of someone to talk to about an unfortunate event in their life? Do you honestly believe that the people here would ever use their firearms to oppress those that could not defend themselves? Do you think that the people here would use their stored goods like money to gain sexual favors? Why would you even think this? Is it because people give you thousands of red thumbs for your attacks on people here that don’t totally agree with you?

I ask you this again, don’t you own firearms? What prevents you from oppressing people that don’t absolutely agree with you when no law system is there. Tell us all what makes you think that you are better than everyone else and why we would use firearms in unfair manners, and why we should trust you with firearms that constantly seems to hate everyone here with a fury?

Who would the prepared oppress; the armed starving masses? Those are people you do your best to keep away from; large in number and desperate enough to do anything and use anything to obtain what they want. A microcosm of this was the LA riots. Who were the attackers? Those with nothing. Who were the defenders? Those with something. Starving masses do have one advantage. Having nothing makes them no target. The prepared do not have that luxury.

Evidently Joe stands for “Jokin On Everyone”. I’ve got a shitload of neighbors like him with the shit-for-brains attitudes. They think they are smart by intimidating people with their words. I just think they are funny. Not in a ha-ha way but in a shaking my head laugh at how stupid they are.

I think Joe is really a punk that has no friends and lashes out to get attention. Maybe he is also a weak little puke that would beat up on a woman. I’ve seen his type, way to many times.

@JoeinNC … Yeah I can see it now in after / post SHTF town-center bartering market : “How Many cans of Fruit Cock-Tail for the Lil’ Girl !” ;0P

It does happen in the real world , human life is very cheap in a WAR-ZONE … just remember in a post shtf environment , food , a balanced diet will be very precious for your own survival and Vigilante Justice will rule the Land / Streets … Anyone Predatory Enough to abuse babies , kids , children ARE FAIR GAME RICH TARGETS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR JUSTICE BY ALL in my book !!!

@All … @JoeinNC does have a point though … I personally saw this very behavior done by military personnel over seas where GI’s traded bravo limas box lunches/ MRE’s meal ready to eat for sex on duty with the locals around the base perimeter and at the base gates . AND NO ONE DID SHEEIT ABOUT IT … WHERE EVER THERE IS A OCCUPATION ARMY THE CIVILIANS DO WHATEVER IS NECESSARY TO SURVIVE INCLUDING PROSTITUTE THEIR OWN BODIES , WIVES OR THEIR CHILDREN’S BODIES FOR FOOD CLEAN WATER LIQUOR DRUGS !

THE DRIVE TO SURVIVE … CAUSES HUMANS TO BE VERY CRUEL AND EVIL AT TIMES !

Something to be aware of Human Sex Trade thrives in a chaotic WAR unstable economic social environments !

* ” PROTECT THE BABIES AND CHILDREN PREPPERS THEY ARE OUR FUTURE … Our Humanity !”

First Mandatory Annual Sex Morality Education Course Program for All the Troops to Attend . Make it a Mandatory Middle School , High School and FreshMan College course Nationally … Show them All the side of view from the victims own perspective . FROM THE DEFENSELESS ABUSED CHILDS or victims POINT OF VIEW . * Recognize Reward those who have the courage to stand up for protect the victims from sexual predator violence and crime .

Second Severe Punishments for those who abuse physically sexually babies kids the defenseless – if convicted – mandatory one year isolation imprisonment to break them down mentally , then 10 years imprisonment mandatory , with anti-sex predatory psych counseling , then Mandatory chemical sterilization of the Convicted if they desire to be released paroled .

Third Federal and States Legalize State Doctor Monitored Licensed Prostitution Sex Message Shops and Individual Private Sex Health Care Givers . Encourage Alternative means to Self Explore Sex with out victimizing others , provide a means to do it safely for All Parties involved .

Sex is part of being a healthy human being . You just can’t change that . Only shape it and try to direct it to a healthy means of expression .

SEX IS A PART OF LIFE ! EDUCATE YOURSELF AND OTHERS TO MAKE IT A POSITIVE SAFE PART OF OUR LIVES !

Are you suggesting that sex ( maybe even from women ) could be obtained in exchange for food or other needed items? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM. Very interesting. I had never thought of that. Thanks for the tip!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Once again you have contributed a fantastic article!! I have said many times that prepping is the exact opposite of selfishness because we are collecting while supplies are abundant so there will be more for the non prepared when supplies are scarce.

Thank you once again for contributing as well as all you do for us on this site.

@ Norse Prepper and everyone else. I have seen and lived firsthand what it feels like to live a humble life in which you don’t spend money on unnecessary junk and items you don’t need. It is called be frugal and careful with what you have. As a child I was read and re-read stories about the ant and the grasshopper and about how squirrels and other animals prepare for the winter, which they know is coming. Most preppers know it is coming, and have tried fruitlessly to try to warn their family, friends and co-workers about it. Not out of being some busy body, but out of just simple concern for your fellow person.

Every single person I know that prepares lives as simple life, void of flash and fads that catch the masses all time. I am a fan of the Old Farmer’ s Almanac, but not the part of it that each year that describes what is “in” about clothes styles and home design. For clothes it is what is comfrtable and will last a long time. For home design, I say plenty of preps ready to go in your home is the best way to model your house. The point is that preppers/survivalists are good people that live a GOOD simplistic life, one that should be admired and looked up to by others. However there is a segment of the population that really begrudges the prepper that only is trying to make sure that they can protect their family, just like most everyone else in the world, to the best of their ability.

These individuals use names that vary from selfish to much more nasty rotten to describe preppers. Those that are truly committed to saving their families like animals that put away for winter coming, are usually bothered by this because not only is it unfair, but it doesn’t make any sense at all. EVERYONE should be putting away as much as possible just solely at all the minor disasters that have left people standing in line for hours waiting for a FEMA power bar, some crackers and peanuts, and maybe a bottle of water. Animals at petting zoos get more.

Then someone that pretends to be into the preparation model for everyone to “look up to” starts calling the truly professional preppers on Doomsday Preppers selfish and to be avoided. These people are pros and their advanced advice is something that can teach us and give us all extremely valuable ideas how to improve on our own preparation. They are the college professors of prepping and survival, and someone that is suppose to be trying to get others into putting away calls them names and puts them into some “other” category that needs to be avoided.

I tell you, it was like Popeye says, that’s all I stands and I can’t stands no more. This person was putting anyone that prepared too much into the debased picture of being some social selfish misfit not deserving of any respect, only condemnation. I really like the people on this site and when someone slaps the face of the people that the world should model their own lives after, it was time to act.

I honestly put all earthquake forecasting aside to attempt to show in an article just how truly worthy preppers are. Since this time for those interested another South Sandwich Islands earthquake occurred, increasing the chances of a really big earthquake coming. Also, one in the Bouvet Island that has a direct energy trail from the San Andreas fault.

Anyway I still cannot believe how Mac lays out articles so well. Anyone that would write an article in the future has to be very impressed on how excellent that Mac can turn a bunch of paragraphs, again my chicken scratching that I tried to format as well as I could, into something so eye appealing and easier to read. Two thumbs up again goes to Mac and this site that is pro-prepper and pro-common sense. Thank you everyone for the nice comments also.

BI, thank you so much for this article. I posted a link it on the blog of the “expert” with hopes to perhaps help her with her next lecture at UC Davis.

I stay in the background and don’t post much but her articles had me so incensed I couldn’t keep quiet, not only because of the content, but because she writes for other EMs as well as teaches future EMS at the collegiate level (UC Davis), so I became quickly alarmed, as many of us did, right so.

I will share high speed lead if someone demands it. Otherwise I will share on a judicious basis. In the end it will only be people that can get along with others and use one another’s strengths to benefit a group. Kind of like the old communities of days passed. The problem will be staying alive until the reboot. It takes a while to decide who can be trusted and who cannot. I worry much about the quality of individual this once great nation is producing anymore. I can’t say that we are hitting on much with our current crop of citizens and young ones.

Geez, I’m so cool now I’m a “Prepper.” I’m so much better than everyone else. All those people who choose to live their lives instead of worrying about the end of the world are just fools. I will laugh as they all burn, or starve, or drown, or get shot, or whatever. They all deserve to die because they are so unprepared. Ha-ha!

I wanna get a job writing for one of those Preppy websites, so I can share all my Preppy ideas with all my Preppy friends so they can see how cool I am because I’m a Prepper. Except don’t ask me for anything. because I don’t trust you. Even if you can to me all hungry and wounded like, you won’t get my stuff because you’re probably a sociopath, and work for the government. Plus its your own damn fault for not Prepping.

First, we live our lives, we just don’t live it frivolously by wasting our labor on worthless gadgetry and bling.

Second, we just want the assurance that we can CONTINUE to enjoy our lifestyle while you’re drinking out of a ditch and shitting your pants from lack of sanitation, shelter and food.

Third, your comments about sociopaths is offensive. Not a single prepper that I know is a sociopath, they are the antithesis of sociopathic. Stop dropping comments like that. We’re all quite embarrassed for you by your show of total ignorance.

Got back to your hand-to-mouth existence. None of us hope you ever have to worry about it. Chances are, you will. The next time you’re broke|stranded|lost| or in some other kind of pinch you’ll wish you took a little of our advice instead of acting like an asshole. Even simple things can save a life. I carry a Bic lighter, a leatherman multitool (A Juice) and a AAA LED flashlight in my pocket.

Will I use them on doomsday? Probably. Will I use them when the tornado strikes Wal Mart and we’re in the dark? The next time? Yes.

Don’t be a fool. Don’t be an asshole. Especially, don’t be them TOGETHER. Its kind of like hammers and dynamite: put them together in foolishly and they’re dangerous.

Hi PT Just a little unsure as to the meaning of your post. If my aging memory serves me a ” Prepper has the food and a ” Preppy ” is a good dresser. Is that right? Am I to unders……Oh. I get it. Sarcasism. You soooo crazy!!!!!

People who DON’T at least try to “set-aside” something now will suffer later(just how soon “later” arrives is a open debate).I suspect that as things slag down(like when many cities like Detroit are no longer a viable “city”)we’ll see who is:”Sinister, Selfish or Morally Depraved”.Just remember,Wall-street and the bankers are keeping a death-dealing stranglehold on available credit that most cities and munis need to function.All this QE2,3,…7,8,9 is going straight into the bankers pockets and nowhere else,period.There many cities(businesses too!)that NEED a line of credit to carry them as they wait for payment,tax revenue,etc…I suspect that the “selfishness” we see will be part of what gets us thru whatever version of the “Great Tribulation” comes to your area.I look at people with young kids and think:”You don’t have a house,no set-asides past perhaps 1 month,very little cash of any size,and you have these “litters”?I feel sorry for the kids,not the parents when REAL starvation hits.The current government entities are FUBAR, both local and national,and are becoming worthless.New York and New Jersey’s FEMA failures have given us advance notice of that.I wish we had honest bankers,mayors,union leaders,police,and folks in Congress who cared FOR THE PEOPLE,not their future position in Wall Street or some “gifted” Corporation stock futures.Nevertheless,these are the times we live in,the past is gone,perhaps for forever.This why we PREP.

BI, bravo, bravo! Once again, a truly outstanding article and your analysis as always is oh so correct. I have finally reached the point where I no longer care what other people think of me. I have been getting so incensed over that recent article where an ‘emergency manager’, aka government moron, calls individual preppers “socially selfish”, which is obviously a socialistic, PC term. She and anyone else who feel that way can go to hell as far as I’m concerned. What we do as individuals to prepare ourselves and our families for the hell on earth we all know is coming IS RIGHT AND PROPER, IS OUR OWN DECISIONS TO MAKE AS INDIVIDUALS, AND NOBODY ELSE HAS ANY DAMN BUSINESS TELLING US ANYTHING DIFFERENT, ESPECIALLY THE GOVERNMENT! What we do as preppers is properly called “stockpiling’”, not “hoarding”. “Stockpiling” is somethiing done by individuals; acquiring supplies for a certain amount of time help themselves and their families survive any adverse situation such as disasters, etc. THEY DO THIS BECAUSE THEY AND THEY ALONE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE WELL-BEING OF THEIR FAMILIES. NOBODY ELSE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM; NEITHER ANY GOVERNMENT AGENCY NOR ANY OTHER INDIVIDUAL. THEY ONLY HAVE OBLIGATIONS TO THEIR OWN FAMILIES AND NOBODY ELSE, PERIOD! THEY BUY THESE SUPPLIES WITH THEIR OWN MONEY THEY EARN FROM WHATEVER TYPE OF WORK THEY DO FOR A LIVING, NOT WITH ANY TAXPAYERS MONEY. THEY PAY TAXES INTO THE SYSTEM. THEY DON’T SPONGE OFF ANYONE ELSE’S TAX MONEY. IT’S THEIR DECISION HOW TO SPEND THEIR OWN MONEY AND NOBODY ELSE’S, PERIOD! I work and pay taxes into the system just like everyone else here. I make my own decisions on what survival supplies to get for myself and what quantity to get; NOBODY ELSE! i use my own money, not tacpayers’ money, to get my supplies. NOBODY OUT HERE IS OWED ANYTHING BY ANYONE ELSE AND NOBODY OWES ME ANYTHING, PERIOD! The bottom line is, we take care of our own with our own resources. We are self-sufficient in our own needs and we don’t crying to government or anyone else for help when disaster strikes. We’re just doing as our families and certainly God expect us to do. I, for one, will never apologize for that. If any government morons want to pass any so-called anti-hoarding laws, let them; they’ll never be able to enforce them and i won’t follow them in any case. BTW, forgot to mention that hoarding is something done by corporations holding back a certain good or service in order to make windfall profits on said item. I’ve said this before and it bears repeating; anybody comes to my home to take what I have by force your day will be ruined PERMANENTLY! Once again, BI, thank you for the outstanding article and keep up the outstanding work. To Mac and everyone else, I apologize for ranting but I just had to respond to this; I’ve been in a very rotten mood the past 2 days and this helped me let off steam. To all preppers out there, I have no problem standing with any of you; we are all in the same boat. Going shopping again this weekend. Best wishes to all. Braveheart

it’s just rehash of less than dumb crap… let’s move on… beating a dead horse will not resurrect it… the name-callers are stupid, naive’, willfully ignorant and woefully arrogant and we all know that… also,we aren’t going to all of a sudden become a mass of community charity sources – end of story…

Sinister,selfish or morally depraved…? hmmmm…naw,I like to be good at most anything there is to accomplish in this life but as much as Id like to be able to say I am Id be lying…because I never held a govt job or lived in DC,never voted for obama,pal-ed around with charley Manson or Hairy the Reed…never stomped a kitten or skinned a puppy…darn,Im such a failure…

Seriously though,those pointing their finger and calling names are generally the ones least qualified to be tossing stones and the most likely to be what they accuse others of being!

If you invest in stocks then your probably considered rich by the masses, if you invest in shoes and extravagant clothing then you are considered a fashionista, if you invest in food and survival supplies then you are considered a selfish, weirdo, hoarder. This my friends is what we have come to, a sick, ignorant, and brain washed society that can’t see the forest through the trees. Keep prepping and just remember that you are the responsible ones and you are the ones who still have a foot in reality.

I think all those who are ‘hording’ their hard earned money in a mutual fund or some 401k or other device, will soon find out that their ‘greed’ is going to also be accessed by that same government that is trying to limit food/supplies storage. You see, if you have thought to prepare that way also, it is selfish to not share when the SHTF. Wait and see.

BTW: Mormons are encouraged to have at least a years food/supplies storage for their families plus enough money to pay debts for a similar time. Are they being demonized? NOPE!

Move Lead up a notch right under “powder”. Even though powder/propellant, isn’t a metal, it surpasses gold and silver for me and mine. We live in the densely populated mountains and right at the top of the main peaks. With wild game and several mountain springs it’s nice to have, but; in a SHTF situation without electricity, the masses will soon figure out where their livelihood comes from,and it ain’t gonna be bottled water and packaged meat from the grocers.

BI, what you say about living a frugal lifestyle is spot on. My parents were frugal and very careful with what we had and made damned sure we never did without basic necessities. Whenever my birthday and Christmas came around, I always received very simple gifts; something important i could really use. I always had the good sense never to ask mom and dad for anything stupid or too expensive. They taught me how to be grateful for whatever I received and it helped me to appreciate other things later on in life. I’m the only person in my household to buy preps for which makes prepping less difficult for me than it would be otherwise. I’m grateful for my income level and the fact that I’m debt-free which allows me to prep faster than a lot of other preppers would be able to. I’m grateful for my critical-thinking skills that allow me to sort out truth from propaganda and not trun into some mindless robot catering to the whims of government. BI, you really rock in my book. Keep it up and thank you. Braveheart

@ braveheart. I have to admit it, that pretentious article about preppers being socially selfish set me off. There has been a lot of polar activity down by the Antarctica, and I put that about trying to figure out the geophysical on the back burner to address this very important issue of preppers getting the bad rap once again. Preppers/survivalists, the people on this site are good people that are pratical and quite intelligent and they don’t deserve this type of contamination by someone that most likely meant every single last word of what was “first” said. Individuals can backpeddle as much as possible, but when someone writes an article, it is well thought out and expresses the viewpoint of the writer. Those two words, socially selfish was very likely what the person exactly felt when the final article was complete.

A lot of times in a comment section people do become upset and sometimes later regret what they said out of an emotional outburst. Someone that goes through the time and effort of writing an article and then correcting the spelling errors and grammar and putting into print, those are probably exactly what the person has felt for a long time about issues mentioned. The fact that it was titled socially selfish makes me think almost for sure that this individual thinks of preppers that prepare too much as demeaning as the title applies.

I have met preppers and know preppers and they are easy to talk to, they are the T-shirt wearing plain clothes type of people that have common sense written all over them. One thing I like most about preppers in that they are not fickle. I have been around some of the kings and queens of being phony, and you just want to get away from someone like this. They go on and on about all they have done and all they have and it just doesn’t matter. They have all sorts of designer “oo-la-la frenchie” perfumes and colgones on that smell more like toilet water, every hair is in perfect place, and they have this locked fixed smile like that of a Ken or Barbie doll. The prepper is the exact opposite of this, and someone that you can trust.

Then someone that pretends to be a representative of those that put away for emergencies spits in the face of these “REAL” people that are not phony that some many of the masses have become. It really started to irritate me and I write and express myself when something really bothers me like this. The back-pedalling on this person’s site clinched it for me that showed something that I saw so common back when I lived in california. You should see some of the comments that were sent to this person. Many really good decent people did not like being called something that they are defintely not.

It is not just her though, this sentiment is widespread about those that don’t simply blindly conform. My animals like to watch cartoons and I saw something on a commercial about bullies. They had these high school girls at a lunchroom and these other girls simply did not want to talk to this one girl and they called this bullying. Not allowing someone to sit down when there are no seats available is being a bully. Not talking to someone because you just don’t want to for some reason is your personal choice, it is called freedom. Yet they label someone a bully if they make their constitutional right not to engage in a coversation and ignore another person or remain silent. This is pure crap.

If you see the commercial this one girl is narrating it and uses the term time-out and time-in. No one has a right to force another to speak to them, yet this very basic freedom is being attempted to be taken away. Same thing with individuals that are trying to put away food and supplies, this is not socially acceptable anymore in excess, and is thus attacked repeatedly. These incidents are becoming more widespread in which people’s freedoms under the constitution are be infridged on.

I don’t like bullies at all, but something like this commercial shows how when something is not socially accepted, the media and individuals will try to to twist it around to make people exercising their rights under law into horrid monsters or even try to make a crime out of it. Anti-hoarding laws have been tried and will be in the future, as they will try to tie it into home owner’s insurance not being valid if you store a certain amount of goods. It is really scary each day i see more and more that these anti-freedom and and anti-personal self defense nut jobs are trying their best to rip tiny pieces off of the constitution and basic common sense laws that still on somehow on the books. Frightening and even more reason to prepare as much as you possibly can for what is coming.

Braveheart, you and so many people on this site seem like the only ones in the family that prepare, the only ones with true insight. Maybe as times become more frightening, we can all help our families see that preparation is really the only way most of us are going to make it through what is coming.

The Federal Government is the largest hoarder in our Nation. They have amassed the largest debt in American history. And they have enormous stockpiles of foods, equipment, medicines, and numerous supplies.

Farmers are probably the second largest hoarding segment in our Nation. Farmers (and Big Ag) stockpile grain, hay bales/rounds, and seeds for the next year’s crops.

But individuals who are well-prepared and self-reliant are ridiculed. It’s part of the radical Left’s mission, a talking point. If preparedness and individualism wasn’t a perceived threat to the Progressives, we would not be one of their targets. As non-conformists and rational thinkers, we know this. To be Government-approved, you must be a Secular Dependent. It’s that simple. To them.

We don’t fit the Government-Mold. We will not conform to their radical expectations. If I want to preserve my homegrown foods, buy extra dry goods, take advantage of a good sale price on socks, or freeze “leftovers” for another meal, it’s my choice and my right.

An interesting article, as we have had many of the discussions at home with many of the points you bring out.

As Christians, we’re supposed to help the needy, friends, relatives, etc.. At some point in time, it becomes mathematically impossible to help too many people. So, that creates an internal battle when the SHTF…..help or turn away?

We have been urging others for several years to at least prepare for a few weeks, or more, whatever makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

Eight years ago I used to think the SHTF might happen. Then a few years later it was a feeling of probably SHTF. Now, it’s when will it happen, because it will happen.

So, the home canning continues. And have added raising meat rabbits to the scenario.

It is mathematically impossible for the government to feed the masses. Five million stored MRE’s sounds like a lot when you relate to it personally. However, one meal for 5 million people really doesn’t help at all if folks haven’t prepared.

If you’re looking to the government for help, I suggest you change your thinking.

Funny thing. I was in the grocery store tonight, where they employ handicapped people as baggers, etc. I was thinking, if there were a collapse, how I might support the weak and helpless. Meanwhile, these self-righteous frauds are all caught up in making sure their continuity of government shelters are in place, with blast doors to keep the riff-raff out.

That hypocrite woman the other day who wrote about selfish preppers has the temerity to actually show her face in public. What a joke

I just posted this on her page (not perfect but typed it out quick & had to have my say): “You should be fired from your job. You are not following basic government mandated calls for citizens to be prepared. You as an government employee are preaching, telling the public NOT to prepare because they would be considered selfish. Way to put a MAJOR dent in decades of government tax payer funded efforts & advertising costs to get EVERY Citizen to prepare at least 3 weeks & aim for 3 months. Pathetic. The last booklet & info I got from various Government agencies stated a goal of 3 months supplies. I have been a government contractor working in the preparedness field & they referred us to to take FEMA courses. It stated all employees were to lead by example & store supplies, encourage all family members & members of their communities to prepare & store supplies, so not to add burden during an emergency. I for 1 have 3 kids w/ medical issues. I have skimped & saved, buy used clothes, toys, almost everything, so I can have supplies my family needs even for a basic emergency of a short term power outage. I seriously question your motives, your employers judgement in not firing U right away & issuing a statement that U do NOT speak for any of the Government who have multiple agencies who spend out tax dollars to have all citizens prepared. Look at Katrina, Sandy.. it was a pathetic show for these agencies. The Occupy Movement volunteers used there own money to buy food & rush out to feed those thousand of hungry.. And ended up feeding FEMA employees too.. pathetic.. Spend you energy fixing the system that is broken. The Government, Emergency Management has a lot to explain for not using our hard earned tax dollars to do it’s job right.”

It depends . The act of putting things away in itself is NOT a bad thing , matter of fact this used to be the norm in this country for a very long , long time . We have only just forgotten that lifestyle in recent times . It also depends on where you live , people in more rural areas and places that are not heavily populated with hard winters , still do this and always will . As far as preppers go , unfortunately , there is a large percentage of that community that IS in fact , mentally ill . That creates problems and stains the reputation of the rest of us that are more moderate that have a life , and live life like normal people vs. the barbed wire and bunker crowd . The old saying ” sometimes it just takes one asshole to spoil it for everybody ” . Just sayin

why should we prepare to take care of the rest of the world, when the rest of the world isn’t willing to prepare for any type of disaster even doomsday their selves? I mean come on should we just gift wrap our resources for them and would they also like them hand delivered or line up and wait. Cause if they think that they are just going to march in and demand my shit they have a 9 mm coming to them and not in the way they want it.

Great perspective, I agree.
We as a society have been trained to be preppers for a very long time, we just weren’t aware of it. Examples, we buy one loaf of bread, just wanted one sandwich but now I have bread for tomorrow, six-pack of beer has gone to twelve and twenty-four packs, i won’t drink them all at one sitting, but will have a few for each day of tha week, even bulk hamberger, a gallon of milk vs just a quart, bulk packs of .22 ammo, can’t recall when I bought just one box of “50″, toilet paper “36 rolls” in one pack, six cans of soup for five dollars, even a tank of fuel for my truck, never put just 5 dollars in it, hell we buy more house than we need, a bigger truck than we need, and clothes we only wear once a year, and tha list goes on.
So tha next time someone bashes you or makes a remark from left field, look in their basket, and point.
Kinda off topic but just a realnasation of how we have all been groomed into “buying now for later”

I’ve always wanted to be morally depraved. Really, do you think you can predict how someone will react to a SHTF situation? Just look at how people react to a crisis situation now. I live in a village of less than one hundred and am some twenty miles from a town of greater than 10K population. I am surrounded by people I see and speak with every day and I do not think I could safely predict what they would do in a SHTF situation. And we are all farmers and ranchers! I suspect that they have some food supplies but probably not even 30 days worth. What happens when they run out? Heck, I’m not even sure what my family (sisters in law and so forth) would do. So, if I’m selfish and depraved then so be it. I prepared, you didn’t.

Preppers have to be less than 1% of the population. When the other 99% go into survival mode, Mr. and Mrs. prepper won’t stand a chance. Armed gangs will ravish the cities and then the country side. Peppers will voluntary give up their food and arms or be burnt out as an example to the rest of neighboring preppers. There are so many vile scenarios in store for these dillusional preppers they just don’t have a clue. The only slim chance of survival over the long term is to quickly align with large armed co-op type communal communities who can produce substainable amounts of food on large rural farms. Having said this I don’t think there is even a remote possibility of this happening in our lifetime. It would have to be an asteroid hitting the earth. Outside of that its just not going to happen this century.

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