Winder Barrow High School head football coach David Wagner called the Barrow Journal’s editor, Chris Bridges, last week to say neither he nor his staff of coaches would continue to cooperate with the newspaper’s coverage of his team. Wagner was miffed over an online poll last week that we posted on the Barrow Journal website. The poll asked the following question:

What do you think the problem is with the football program at WBHS?
•Not enough school support
•Not enough community support
• A lack of quality athletes
• A lack of quality coaching
• Don’t know

Wagner was upset that the Journal dared asked that question. Maybe that’s because in the three years he’s been at WBHS, Wagner hasn’t won a single football game. Yet he doesn’t expect anyone to notice that, or even ask the obvious?

Wagner is in a high-profile job in the community as a head football coach. He is a public employee, as are all the coaches in the school system. The football program uses tax-funded stadiums and training rooms. For Wagner to think he has no obligation to be under the public limelight in his position is foolish. It goes with any coaching job.

The truth is, the Journal has never been critical of Wagner or his teams. Despite three years of losses, the newspaper has been very supportive of the WBHS football program. We spend thousands of dollars every year to cover the school’s football program and related activities.

And nobody has questioned the commitment of WBHS players to becoming successful. It’s not the fault of the players at WBHS that they find themselves in this situation. Every boy on that team wants to win. No athlete does the drills in the heat of the summer, or takes the physical pounding of football planning to lose. The boys want, and deserve, a winning program.

But it doesn’t mean that questions about the program should not be asked. The online poll was a way to let the community express its impression of what the problem might be with the years of trouble in the WBHS football program.

Coaches live and die based on their success. While high school athletes learn valuable life lessons no matter what a team’s win-loss record, the reality is that coaches are measured on their W-L record. Every coach who goes into that field knows that. If they can’t withstand the pressure of W-L and the public scrutiny that comes with it, they need to find another profession. Hypersensitive coaches with thin skin won’t last.

Wagner got his job at WBHS because his predecessor had not been as successful as many had wanted. Ben Corley was forced out after two years and a record of 3-17 when athletic director Justin Grant decided to bring Wagner in to replace him.

At that time, Chris wrote an opinion column in which he questioned that decision, saying that Corley needed more than just two years to build a program.

Grant was furious about that column and called to complain — how dare Chris question his decision to oust Corley!

But now three years later, the program has not been any more successful than it was under Corley. At 0-24, and being outscored 182-824 over the last three seasons, Wagner’s record is worse. Yet nobody, least of all this newspaper, has called for him to go.

To any objective observer, the problems in the WBHS program seem to be bigger than any single coach. That the community is concerned about that should come as no surprise; nor should questions about the situation be shocking. Shouldn’t the community hold the leadership of that very public program to some modicum of accountability?

One of the best things that could happen to Winder and Barrow County would be for WBHS to build a strong football tradition of success as it had many years ago. The economic downturn has had a huge negative impact on the community both economically and psychologically. The community needs something to rally around — a program to be proud of — an event that brings people of all ages and backgrounds together in a positive way. Everyone in the community would love to see WBHS build a successful football program.

But that won’t be done by coaches who put their heads in the sand and say “Hush!” to anyone who dares to ask “what’s wrong?” Pretending there isn’t a problem won’t make the problem go away. And a coach trying to suppress a newspaper’s coverage of high school sports won’t make that sport become more successful.

If Wagner is concerned about “negativity” in his football program, he can’t shift the blame for that on the newspaper or anyone else who dares ask questions.

If he wants to stop questions from being asked, there is a solution: Win some ballgames. Trying to change the focus away from himself and cast blame onto others is just being a crybaby.

Of course, the Journal can’t make Wagner, or his staff, talk to us. While that reflects poorly on him as a leader, nobody can force him to speak if he doesn’t want to.

Still, the Journal will continue to cover WBHS football as it always has. It would be unfair to the athletes and our readers to allow such pettiness by a coach to interfere with coverage of a sport. We will still be on the sidelines making photographs and we will continue to write about the WBHS football team, along with other school sports.

And if Wagner won’t talk with us, well, that’s his choice.

In fact, we’d rather he do his talking on the field by winning a few games.

Results speak louder than words anyway.

Mike Buffington is co-publisher of the Barrow Journal. He can be reached at mike@mainstreetnews.com.

You call a man a "crybaby" in the title of a crybaby article? Pot, kettle. This article is the epitome of childishness. I like the Journal typically, but seriously, Mike, I'm surprised that as a professional, you thought that an article like this was a good idea.

From a facts point of view, you relayed so little of the coach's specific concerns about the survey that I question the implications you make about his phone call at all. Second, you desire a program or sport that can bring people in the county together, yet you write an article that so clearly is meant to divide...to invite criticism of this guy and his football program. It's one thing to question. It's a whole other to antagonize.

You don't seem like a fellow who apologizes very often, but unless I'm missing something, this article is way out of line for more than one reason, and it makes you and the paper look bad. I enjoy reading your articles online and had been considering subscribing to the paper so as not to miss anything. This made that decision easy, as I'll skip sending you my twenty bucks and just continue to watch from the sidelines. I'd feel silly supporting a paper that includes articles as ridiculous as this one.

HA..his record is a joke. His program is a joke. Some of the BEST players are wanting to quit because of him. They should swap and let the band play football and let the jocks sit in the stands. Its horrible going to losing games every week. At least the band has 28 years of superior ratings!

It's the truth... Sorry but the football program has never been up to par ever since I went there, but I can say they did actually win one game. Losing is never fun and regardless what coaches and others say, kids don't wanna play for a losing program. It's just the truth. Something has to be done, because if this continues there might not be a football program for much longer. If I had to say something positive about the football staff and program, it would honestly be learn from the baseball program. Since I was there and after there have been region champions and multiple playoff runs. I hope they get there heads on straight because winder isn't and should not be as bad as they are playing. Go doggs!!

CLEAN HOUSE!! new coaches with no wbhs ties! as it was when I was at wbhs(02-06) most of the "elite" athletes don't play football BC of the pathetic excuse for a program...the coach is a joke and the team is a money pit!! how many new Jerseys and field house repairs are they going to get before its written off as a lost cause!! Shut it down boys,its a joke

I'm not a WBHS graduate, nor from Winder, but I live here and have attended every WBHS home game (and several AHS games) for the past 3 years simply because I love high school football. And because my son will eventually play for the Doggs. I also have met several of the varsity coaches, including Coach Wagner, so my personal opinion of the program is like my user name: Complicted.

Does coaching matter? It certainly does. There's a reason Larry Campbell has won 461 games at Lincoln County since 1972. But if you ask him I'm sure he will give the credit to his players, and there have been a lot of D1 players from Lincolnton. Little Lincolnton!

What does this have to do with WBHS? Nothing, and perhaps, everything. Coach Wagner polished his reputation as the defensive coordinator and right hand man of Apalachee Head Coach Shane Davis during an undefeated regular season and deep run in the playoffs. Could an idiot have done that? Of course not.

But if you follow Apalachee, they have been in gradual decline for the past couple of years. Why? Did Coach Davis and his staff suddenly start chugging Stupid Juice? Again...of course not. Their overall talent level, while still well above average, isn't what it was then. Particularly when it comes to depth. But they are still more than competitive.

But back to WBHS...what is the problem? An earlier poster pointed to the success of the baseball program and top shelf WBHS athletes dedicating themselves exclusively to baseball and other sports. I don't discount that theory, as kids of HS age want to be associated with a winner. And football simply hasn't been for way too long.

How do we get there...back to the halycon days of Coach Phil Jones? That's where it gets complicated. There are no easy answers. Coach Corley was dismissed after 3 wins in 2 years and many folks protested that wasn't enough time for him to establish his program. But how many years do you give Wagner if 2 years wasn't enough for Corley?

The common thread through both the Corley and Wagner eras is the players produced by our Rec and Middle School programs. WBMS has long been more than competitive in middle school football (winning the league championship last year), Russell...ehhh...not so much. But success in high school starts sooner than that: during youth football. The Valdosta/Lowndes County model is proof of that. Those kids are drilled in the offensive and defensive schemes of those respective programs from the time they are 8-years old, and success is not just expected, it's demanded. And the kids, by both programs records, obviously respond.

Wagner, to his credit, has tried to establish that with the new WB Competitive Football Program. But will the kids buy into it when they see the results of the flagship program, and will Wagner survive long enough to see the fruits of his efforts? From the brewing community revolt, apparently not.

I know this has been an incredibly long rant, but I've been thinking about this for a while and it seems things are coming to a head. There is no reason Winder-Barrow cannot be not only competitive, but also succeed, on the gridiron. But to get there the program, regardless of who the coach is, needs the support of the community. If you are a WBHS grad...go to a game. Even if you don't know any coaches or players, go cheer for your alma mater. Trust me, it does make a difference. Be supportive of the kids and coaches. And if a change is made, be supportive of those coaches.

There is just way too much negativity surrounding this program (and entire county for that matter), and we all just need to do something positive: BE SUPPORTIVE.

Coaches are not to blame. Athletes are not to blame. All programs go through changes and rough times. One thing for sure, it is difficult to take the field thinking you are going to lose and knowing your community is full of people who bash them and their efforts. Sports are more about building character than winning. It's more important these children learn the value of never giving up. Kudos to the players and coaches who show up to endless hours of practices and give it their all. If you could do better, coach or play. The coaches are there because they love the game and the kids. Kids play because they love the game. Support them or stay home and stay quiet.

A postive attitude is essential, yes. But having one does not mean a person then puts on rose-colored glasses and sticks their head in the sand. It may NOT be the football coaches fault (fault finding/blaming rarely repairs damage) but it is certainly his responsibility! After three years at the helm, he should have shown improvement. I really don't follow BC football as my kids played for the champion Jefferson Dragons...we just happen to live in BC.

Well the saying goes, "Never pick a fight with someone that buys ink by the barrel"...or something like that. I do think, however, that the Barrow Journal would be well served to sometimes remember that:
1) You're a small town newspaper. You probably don't buy as much ink as you'd like to think you do.
2) You don't kick folks when they're down. It's bad manners and poor sportsmanship.

The boys that give all of their time deserve to have coaches that are dedicated to giving them the best opportunity. The Head Coach is not the only one to blame. It goes higher than that. The boys actually like Cosch Wagner but the others have gained no respect from these boys. They are not supportive of these boys!!! The program needs to change!! As parents it is extremely hard to encourage your children to want to continue to play with no results. Every program will have issues but you have to have a plan in action to correct them. So many talented boys have left the program and after this year many more will as well. There weren't even enough to make a JV team!!! Maybe it's time to line up the boys and ask how they feel!!!

I think Coach Wagner has a 5 year contract, although staying that long at WBHS may ruin his career and leave him stranded here.I like Coach Wagner and this is by no means all his fault. I really liked Coach Corley and he was also a very great teacher, Coach Grant forcing him and several others to leave so that WBHS might have a better football team was an ignorant move. We put more effort and money into football than we should. I don't care if it is private non school funds, it is wasted money. What are you learning on that field that will make you successful? How about putting some of that money and resources behind kids who want to learn and get an education. Have you seen our test scores or talked to a WBHS graduate lately? Close down the football program and put that time, energy and resources into the classrooms. Do this for 5 years and see if we don't have a better school and a better community. Go to some other town and watch their football games if you need a High School football fix. Let their town burn money on football programs. I am sure you are all really ticked now but if some of you would wake up and see how much money has already been wasted on football at WBHS while REAL TEACHERS are scrambling for funds to buy paper and educational materials to TEACH students we might one day make AYP. Sincerely A Concerned Citizen.

I am relieved that Barrow Journal had the responsibility and the to bring up this topic that should have been discussed well over a year ago. I understand that some may not agree with what has been said, but remember our country was founded on freedom of the press. I would welcome any articles or editorials that support the current coach. I have seen several kid's lives nearly destroyed by the mismanagement of this football team. Those who were fortunate enough to get out of this county before their senior year at least have a chance to get a scholarship and further their football career. Others who dared to speak out after 15 straight losses have been kicked off the team, forced to 2nd or 3rd string, or quit. Kids who quit football have a greater risk of getting into trouble. The parents who insisted that their kids stay on the team until the end last year are to be commended. Winder-Barrow has NO JV TEAM this year which is devastating for the future of WBHS football. We as a community need to understand that something has to be done to take back our high school athletes and our community. Parents, I plead with you to make phone calls and write letters to Dr. Creel to insist upon a change in head coach for 2013. Do not wait another second while more hopes and dreams are dashed and future football careers are utterly destroyed beyond repair.

Hmmm, I would like to hear the other side of the story. Could it be possible, just maybe, that the Coach was mad that the kids were brought into a poll, where the were labled as "a lack of quality athletes"? Maybe, just maybe, he didn't feel the kids, who play this sport, deserved to be dragged through the mud in a newspaper. Of course we will never know, because the Journal would never publish this part.
I, if this was the case, agree. Win or lose, these kids play hard. They do not desrve to be told they lack quality. I would take heart over quality any day.

Since jones left they have been unable to find a coach that can play politics and coach. Proof: when there was only one school they were horrible an now there is a successful school and a poorly managed one. The athletes are there. The issue is if parents are "gg" sponsors or "red and black" they would play, regardless of talent. Play athletes and he money will come to you. If they figure that out the can win a game. Other than that I would use an address in the other district and go to a school with a decent program.

We're talking about 25 straight losses over almost three years. Boys who should be playing ball with scholarships are stuck in dead end jobs with no future if they are lucky enough to find an opening. They could have returned to the community as coaches in a few years. This is about far more than one game or even one season.

Hey, I don't think these people are getting the real picture here. The coaches are trying and they're doing their best. The players are practicing like crazy and puting themselves on the line for the team and their community. They don't have a lot to draw from because people won't tryout for the football team because they aren't man enough to face the idea of losing. This paper has done wonders for the community of Winder. It's a new and flourishing paper with lots of extremely talented staff. Chris is out there getting a good story and puting the team in good light. Not the Mike owns the paper and does not work for it. He wrote this article and he put the poll up there. He doesn't even have to face the backlash of the public. The Barrow Journal is a great paper but Mike dropped the ball on this one and he doesn't have to answer to it. Not to mention, no one on the staff of the Journal has a say to take this out because what Mike says, stays. If this article seems low to you, it is. But if you think this is a reflection on how the Barrow Journal performs, you're wrong, it's only a reflection on it's owner.

The Journal is privately owned and operated. I have had the pleasure of meeting with Chris Bridges, Coach Justin Grant and Coach David Wagner on many occasions. I give kudos to the entire staffs of both schools. Sports programs take a lot of criticism from many sources. Like it or not, high school football is the "money maker" for the schools and sometimes other school sports suffer for that in the long run. I have lived and worked in Barrow County since 1998 and very proud to call it home. My family strongly supports both area high schools and all of the local area youth sports programs as much as possible. We have a freshman at Apalachee and his eighth grade year the sports were cut on the middle school level. Instead of knashing of teeth and throwing flaming arrows arrows back and forth, lets come together and support our kid's teams the way the kids deserve. I assure you that both high schools would love to go all year with no losses and would support the "cross town rival" for the same schedule results except for that 1 game when they play each other. Win or loose, we will be there rooting them on even after our kid's brief 4 years are well in the history books. Go Doggs & Go Cats!

Some of you just see the facts as you would like them to be. If you look back, even Coach Jones lost. The Coaches go out there and work hard. They want those boys to win.

Some of you say that losing has destroyed their lives. Really? Do you think that all those coaches are teaching them is football? Losing hasn't destroyed their lives, they are a better person for what they are going through. Life is not always a bed of roses.

As far as Corley goes, you have the facts wrong. He was not pushed out. He is a fine man, but he would not do what was asked of him. He would not develop a younger program like the administration wanted him to do. As far as Justin Grant is concerned you won't find a finer person anywhere. He has great character and genuinely cares about the students. I have seen him put his own money out for those kids.

The coaches leave their families and try to build a program and those kids are trying to do the same. It is shameful that you are trying to tear it apart. I played atheltics, and my brothers played athletics at WBHS. You can't always have a winning team. Things will never improve until the community decides to become supportive instead of being so negative and demeaning.

Wagner and his staff are trying to improve the program by beginning to build it from a young age. They need our support.

Mike, as far as you are concerned, go back to writing for the "Jefferson" Herald and leave us Barrow Countians be.

All those insisting that Wagner needs more support or that football in Barrow County needs more support, welcome to the world of tennis, volleyball, softball, soccer, track, cross country and any number of other sports that are ignored in this county. When was the last time you went to a game for any of the above mentioned sports? When was the last time you donated to their booster clubs? Good to know that Grant is supportive of all those football players and even willing to use his own money to help them but what a shame he can't muster the same enthusiasm for all the other teams that work just has hard with little or no money besides what their parents can provide. Football is at the top of the sports hierarchy , and therefore, people pay more attention and expect reasonable results. It's a slap in the face of all the other athletes at WBHS for anyone to complain that football doesn't get enough support. I'm sure Warner wouldn't be shutting out the press if his team was basking in the glory of success, in fact, I suspect he'd the first to offer an interview!

John, for you to think that Phil Jones would be successful here and now at WBHS is a joke. First off, Phil was AD and didn't have to take orders from anyone. Second, he brought his brand of South Georgia football, fair but firm, smash mouth, where practices were harder than games. Do you think parents would stand for that now? They complain now about tough practices. These practices are nothing like in those days. Coaches have no support from Dr. Creel also. It was only a year or two ago when the Apalachee girls basketball coach was ordered to reinstate a girl who had played JV but was cut from the varsity because she didn't posess the skills necessary to compete at the level. All this to please an irate dad. Needless to say we lost a good coach. And take one look at our rec program. Daddy ball at it finest. Coaches coach just to insert their children in the key positions whether they belong there or not. Leaving many of our talented younger athletes frustrated and looking for a different sport to play.

But, this is not about the coaches, players or anything of the sort. This is about Mike. As someone said earlier he protects Dr. Creel while critizing the athletic program. Funny, I never saw the first word when Dr. Creel forced our coach to use up a spot on his roster for a girl who would never play.

This article is a direct reflection of all that is bad in small communities. I coached at Winer in Wagners first season there and I can honestly say that the work ethic and leadership is indeed there. I have went on to be a head coach in florida but i still follow that program because of teh friends I have on that staff that work extremely hard for those kids. Instead of putting the blame on any individual why don't you all come together positively and keep the attention on the kids and what is right for them. Everyone wants to win and winning is a lot of fun but someone has to lose each friday then on top of that yu have to teach kids how to win, it just doesn't happen. If Winder pulls one out then you will see a dominoe effect that will help them win on a more consistent basis. Support theses coacehs and kids and keep that community strong and together before you lose a quality man and coach. I would personally hire three of those guys on staff right now if they would move to Florida

It is so sad and appalling that there is such a divided and lack of community in Winder. It doesn't help that you have got journalist such as Mike Buffington kicking a man while he is down. David Wagner and his coaching staff are a great bunch of coaches with great work ethic. My husband coached for David and we were sad to leave that coaching staff but not the community. There is no support for the program and the only ones that are losing out are the kids. The community should focus on the kids instead of putting ridiculous, negative polls in your paper and constantly bashing the coaches or the kids. I am not sure that many folks have any clue how hard the coaches work and how much the coaches sacrifice. Instead of bashing them, how about just supporting them.

Coach Wagner, his entire staff, the boys of the football team and the coach's families, keep your heads up high. You are rock and are a great family. Go Doggs!

While I do not agree with the title of this column or the name crybaby, I do not see that Mike or the paper kicked Wagner while he was down. I got that the point was that after all the support the paper gave Wagner and the program, it was wrong for Wagner to say they would no longer work with the paper. I have been reading the paper week after week and you would think WB had not lost a game based on the coverage they got. When Gainesville, by any definition destroyed Winder, Bridges wrote a piece that pointed out the good things. I swear you would have thought they won. I do not get why Winder would want to lose that type of coverage. I also saw the poll. I think it a legitimate question to ask based on comments. The paper never said the boys were the problem. It asked if the people thought it was a lack of talent. Based on your comment and many others here, not only do I think you do not read the print paper, but even the ones who do have a hard time with comprehension.

What is the common denominator? You can defend coaches all you want, but to support them you have to concede there is no talent available in the student body. But look on the bright side, every away game is a homecoming game for the other team.

How can everyone on here not see the real problems...they are spelled GRANT and DARBY!!! They are both idiots. If Dr. Creel wants to have any kind of self preservation in this county then she will find replacements for both of these administrators SOON!!! There are true stories that the staff and teachers could tell about both of them but they are too afraid of the repercussions if they do. My cousin teaches there and we get enlightened by what goes on at wbhs during family dinner on Sunday. As an alumni of this school I am ashamed of the direction this school is taking with it's leadership of these two men. Thankfully the two new administrators this year, Stiltner and Martin have a clue and are trying to improve employee moral as well as trying to improve test scores and encourage student educational growth. So while everyone is in an uproar over a football coach...why don't you dig a little deeper to the root of the problem....GRANT AND DARBY!!!!

This is my observation: the coaches are not teaching the kids the basics of football much less team work. Not one of the line man knows how to block, not one of the defensive players know how to tackle. And folks thats the story right there.... Blocking and tackling is the bare basics of football and if you can't/won't do that then you will never win.

There are some excellent football players at WBHS they just need to be given a chance to succeed. All highschool players who want to continue their careers in college need to play for a winning school or they will never get noticed or looked at. I think the school owes it to the hard working players at WBHS to give them a winning coach and season. Look out for the children is what you are supposed to be doing.

Not sure I can add anything refreshing to this conversation but first I think Coach Wagner should resign and stop all this division in the community. He was hired to improve the program. If he was working for me and the results he has at this point were what I was evaluating him on he would be fired. I understand he has a contract but we cannot let our athletes go to other programs like Jefferson, Walton, Appalachee because they see no change with Coach Wagner. The kids need to see Hope and a new future but this is impossible with Coach Wagner at the helm. I also see problems with Coach Grant. He runs a "good 'ol boy" system and acts like a frat boy. He does not bring respect to our program and certainly the coaches he is in charge of have no fear of him. Wanda Creel is also a joke, I hear she becomes emotional and is in over her head with the system. Basically Barrow County has a lack of leadership throughout the system. I'm not sure who in Barrow County is in position to fix it or has the balls to fix it. Maybe it is time the community stands up and ask for accountability from the Superintendant, Athletic Director and Head Coach.

Another non starter. You are correct; nothing to add. Grant has the keys to the ship and does a great job. Look at the other winning programs we have. It may be better if you move to one of these other places; pretty sure he will not start there either.

Coach Wagner is a good coach, theres no doubt about it. But having what it needs to bring my school team back up from the loss we have occured he doesnt have. And it would take a better person to better our football team. They are a great group of boys out there but they need the right COACH.

It is ridiculous to make statements such as there is no talent at winder, or no talent on the football team.the fact is that the best athletes at winder don't play football but play some other sport.thats the way it was even when I was in school there. We have region and state champions in other sports, it's this way in colleges too, when is the last time Duke won a football game? But look out for them in basketball.
If the school and community wants a better football team then the coaches have to put the best eleven that hey have on the field and then they have to give them a solid game plan,if that happens then they can start to win some ball games, but the daddy ball that has always been prevalent here as we'll as the newer money ball has to go.

Jack Legg you said it perfectly. I never thought I'd be able to say that. The kids with talent are not pushed on recruiters either. Three guys I played with there walked on and got a free education after being told they were not quick enough and rode the sidelines , while being second string to a teachers son. That was under other coaches but obviously their style hasn't changed. The talent is there but the coaching has to change.

We have some great kids in our county, but for you to think there are talented football players is not accurate. You think our coaches don't do enough to help our kids get recruited? Well, I have news for you, if a kid is good enough colleges coaches would find them. Recruiters are everywhere. Stop putting the blame on these coaches and our Ad. Daddyball is killing our program. People like those above who think and tell their kids how good they are, rather then tell them that they are not there yet, and need to work harder, destroy our football program. Very few of our starters could start at another school. These kids and parents have no idea what hard work is. If you want to blame the coaches for anything, that would be it. The only problem is if they worked them to hard the parents would go running to a sympathic Wanda Creel.

True story: two years ago there was this monster of a kid on the team who rode the bench. He didn't come from one the "chosen families" so there was ZERO chance for him to gain any playing time. So he changed schools after his junior year and lo and behold he is now a freshman at Oklahoma on a football scholarship. So the talent is there, the coaches are not nurturing or utilizing it to any degree.

That"s funny I just looked at Oklahoma"s roster and the only player from Georgia is a senior linebacker from Hab Central. If you think for one minute that the coaches would not play a guy with D 1 ability because he is not from a chosen family you know nothing about coaching. You are obviously bitter, I wonder why.

Me being WBHS class of 03 our school football team didn't loose over and over again back then when we had the good coaches like Coach Whitlock and Coach Berry so it must be a coaching issue. We need better coaches to make a better winning team. It's been very disapointing that our school team's been losing all the time now. Maybe it's time to replace the coaches.

News flash, the high school coach plays as big of a role in getting kids scholarships as the kids talent does.win loss records mean nothing, for a number of years in Gwinnett county the school that had the most scholarships for football was Meadow creek.do you know how many winning seasons they had? None, in fact for a longtime they couldn't win a game but every year there were 4 or5 kids who got football scholarships, all due to the coach there who actively sought out college recruiters. If the coach is not sending film to colleges show casing his team then he is failing . Kids want to be associated with winners, heather your winning on the field or in the scholarship department. If kids see a lot of their friends going on to play at the next level then they will come out and play for the team, if they see the team winning most Friday nights they will come out for the team and thus in time improve the team. So there is at least two levels of failure here and if mony ball and daddy ball are still what goes on ,then their are two more levels of failure. All of these levels of failure rest on the coach and the administration that is satisfied with mediocrity.

This is the first time I have ever looked at this paper online. I find myself reading this article and I am wondering...Why won't you tell us this specific reason why the coaches don't want to talk to you anymore. I am sure there is a specific reason.. I am sure you did not just get a random phone call...I would venture to guess it has to do with the kids being called out. I mean I don't get that. I mean they don't even do that at the collegiate level. Coaches have to have thick skin in their profession not matter what the level. So I would not imagine it had anything to do with you being critical of the coaching. My question to you is simple, why did you call out teenage kids by saying their are not enough quality athletes? Why don't you just say the kids can't win no matter who the coach is? How about this.... Do you think the Winder-Barrow football players are horrible? This might not be what you meant but as a parent of a teenage who plays high school football that is what it says to me. Could it be you just needed to shift the blame to the coach so you don't look bad for calling out kids? I don't know but it would be interesting to find out. It just sounds like in the article you wrote....so you won't talk to me anymore well I will so show you what I can do. If that is the case you are a pathetic, if not you are still pathetic for calling out kids.

I read the article and I get the reason is because of the poll. The poll ask the question what the PEOPLE think.I have never once read anything in this paper that called out the kids or blamed the coaches for the losses. I am not a fan of this column but I would challenge you to find a single thing written in the Barrow Journal sports pages that was blaming the players or even the coaches for the losses.

Like I said in my previous post this is first impression I got from this article. As far a other articles I have no idea because this is second time I have ever read this paper. So you do not think asking the question if there are not enough quality athletes is calling out kids? It is right here. Who are the athletes?
It is right here..Maybe I'm reading to much into this but the last time I checked the kids are the athletes...so the kids at winder are not good? Is that what this is asking?
Not enough school support
•Not enough community support
• A lack of quality athletes
• A lack of quality coaching
• Don’t know

Ok, if you were asking why you thought a team had 25 straight losses what would you ask? I personally do not see it as calling anyone out as much as it is getting a feel from of what the people think. Also since you say you do not read the paper, I suggest going to the their office and getting some back issues. You will see how supportive they have been. Also since you do not read the on-line version regular, you may be interested to note that before this people posted on here about the athletes in other stories. The community brought it up first. You wrote " why did you call out teenage kids by saying their are not enough quality athletes?" Again my point is that the paper never said " there are not enough quality athletes", they asked the question of the community. Personally I would have never run the poll, but then again I do not work for or own a paper. But I do read this sports section every week. Also yes, I am at every home game and every away game. So yes I have a vested interest and I did not take the poll the way you did.

But why ask that specific question to the community? Your right this poll should have never been put out. I can't imagine what those kids and coaches are going through. From all indications it is not from a lack of effort...since you are at all the games are they out matched? Is it as simple as they can't compete with the teams in their league? In the life time of the school they have never been very successful in football. It is not like they were winning state championships in football and all of a sudden they got bad. How are their 9th graders and JV doing? Are they winning games? I can't imagine Coach Wagner came to Winder and forgot how to coach.

We dont have a JV football program. Future is looking real bright for Winder. The 9th grade is winning, they have always won and competed very well. As they get older, something happens. This year and years to come will be no different.

In answer to your question about them being out matched, yes they are many times. The Gainesville game this year is a good example. No matter how hard they played they were out matched. But so are most teams that play Gainesville. No amount of coaching, fan support, praying, or extra effort would have beat Gainesville. They are that good. Does that mean the players did not try their best. No it does not. It is the reality of a better team with more talent.I play golf a couple of times a month. No matter how badly I try or work at it, or even want it, I could never beat the worse person on the pro tour. Why, because I lack the talent. There have been games over the last 3 seasons that Winder Barrow could have and should have won. The last game was a good example. They had the opportunity but can not close on it. This I put on the coaches. By asking the question about quality of athletes I do not feel it takes away from the effort the players put forth. If the paper had asked " is it lack of effort on the players" that would have been another story. In sports there are players that are better than others and teams with better players. Always have been, always will be. That is why only a few play college and even less play in the pros.

It amazes me to see some of the comments about the lack of talented players!! Its pretty obvious by the comments that there are coaches or their family members making the comments. If Wagner was such a good coach at defense for Appalachee then why is he coaching the Offense for WBHS? Maybe he should stick to what he was good at!! His great coaches have continued to badmouth players and their comments have caused these boys to quit! Did anyone bother to watch the middle school game yesterday? There was a big difference in the type of coaching for Russell that was able to defeat that of the WBMS!! Funny the coach that won would be a much better offense caller for our high school but the good ole boy system wont allow it!!! The boys deserve respect from the coaches and they havent received it!!! They quit because they are tired of the negativity they receive!!! Winder has been able to succeed with their competitive leagues over and over again!! They played against the best of the best all over and won!! These same boys are on the field now!! Get over your selfish EGO and listen to the boys for once!!! Is their any accountability for any wrong doings by the players?? The "superstars" are allowed to not practice and show up when they want and the ones that are working hard get pushed aside!!! If they were all so good why aren't they winning?!!! There are talented players just not passionate coaches!!!!

Ok, so we know you have a son that does not play! The daddy ball coaching is not what made the difference in Russell's game yesterday. Obvious you want the daddy ball coach to give your son some playtime. Get over it. No place at this level for that kind of crap. Other schools have teams. Move. But, If they are not starting here they are definately not starting at any other school. Get over yourself and move on!

Correct, the HEAD COACH at Russell is a good coach and has had a couple of good years. There was no difference from years past, Russell's kids played a great game yesterday. Either middle school head coach would be a good addition to the varsity. Get over your selfish EGO, it is not the good ole boy system that prevents the person that will help out your situation from coaching. That in itself is the ENTIRE problem, your wanting someone to coach that help your playtime. You sound like you are in high school. Grow up, or get a college education or some kind of education, and become a teacher if you do not like what is going on.

I just wanted to address something regarding the Russell vs. WBMS game. Let's not get it twisted. There were problems with the ball on BOTH sides. Russell was just the better team yesterday. It is what it is, but both teams have some excellent players and good coaches.

Just keep in mind, WBMS won the championship last year and those players are now part of a great 9th grade team combined with the Russell players. Those boys appear to be the start of something fantastic for the WB Football program. I see good things happening and as long as both sides, Coaches and players, stay positive. We should see things turn around once everyone starts moving up. I see that the Middle School coaches also working to achieve a much needed feeder program and that will help as well. Is the answer to send those middle school coaches up to the Varsity ranks? Perhaps, but I agree, it does take time to get a program together. So what's the right answer other than sending a Russell coach up to call the plays?

I'm not sure i agree with calling the coaches cry babies either, but it is your 1st amendment right to say what you want. Opinions are like noses, everyone has one.

The biggest thing is that the town has got to support the program, the players and the coaches, but not just football..ALL of the programs at WB.

Well I am going to say this I truely like Wagner but you are only as great as the people you surround yourself with.Some of them coaches have a ego as big as they are.And for what?As a coach I feel that if you walk by a parent you should atleast try and speak.Don't just walk on by like you are some kind of big shot NFL coach.If we expect to have a winning program these coaches have got to get into these hallways get these athletes to believe in them.I have two kids that goto to the high school and the size of ese kids in Winder Barrow iscrazy.You have got to make want to play for you. I don't want anyone to lose there jobs but if a kid doesn't want to play for you that is a problem in my book.As we sit in the stand and here these coaches as they talk on there head phones and bad mouth the kids call them all sorts of names it a wonder they anyone playing for them.And I want to clear one thing up also this Coaching staff did not start the competitive youth teams in Winder.That was started years before they came to Winder.The BCCYA program was set up for all the kids in Barrow County.The kids may not have liked all the coaches there but I promise you one thing they respected everyone of them.

Well, with the bull%*#> you guys make up and spread why would they talk to you. It is aboautely crazy. How in the world do you know what is said over the game headphones? Problem 1; wanna bees sitting beside coaches starting crap. Kids that do not play are ones not playing.

No one said anything about knowing what is said over the headphones.The coach saying stuff just has a loud mouth.I really am surprised no one else has heard it yet.So now we have wantabees sitting next next to the coaches in the press box?I was under the impression that these were the middle school coaches sitting up there.I sir have heard this coach degrade the kids myself.I don't need to hear it from someone else.I suggest you get your facts straight.I will say this if this Coach that says this crap about our kids is there next season we will not be.If I have sell my house and move out of district I will.Don't get me wrong I love this program just as much as everyone else but I am not going to subject my son to ignorant people like this coach.

krazo I beg to differ with u sir You can blame who you want to for saying stuff.But I know what I heard with my own two ears come ot of that pressbox.of coarse I couldnt hear what the other person said on the headphones maybe I should have just said that I heard a coach saying it.The fact of the matter is that what is being said about these kids should not be being said.Like I said before I really like Wagner but if certain coaches are back next year my kid will not be.

I've been reading the comments and pretty much everyone seems to have a valid point. So has anyone thought that maybe it's all of the above. A school will not get the adequate support from their respective community, nor the student body unless they can produce wins and at least be competitive. The old saying is that "Winning solves everything!!" It's not the kids fault, because I'm sure that they want to win just as much as the community wants a winning team, and I definitely have never met a coach that didn't want to win! So what is the problem? I think that the county and or city needs to invest more in the kids and families by building quality facilities, such as parks that would give the community as well as the children something to take pride in. The facilities now just simply suck, especially when it comes to football! The county next door has state of the art parks on almost every corner, with wonderful football facilities amongst others. Surely Barrow Counties population creates enough revenue to produce at least two quality community parks. Yargo is a state park so it doesn't qualify. Give the kids and the community something that they can be proud of, and that pride will flow through your programs, and I promise that you will see a different athlete and attitude throughout. Just MY opinion.

I attended a meeting a few months back at the Statham City Hall, The Statham City Council stated that they would love to build a football field for a Competitive team that my kids play for in Statham. They have the land to do it, but they don't have any money to grade out the land to make it flat. The Mayor stated that all of the money for the parks are being kept by the city of Winder for their operations. From my understanding the Organization is now looking for corporate support to help out with the grading and landscaping for a football field there for next year. So HOPEFULLY, Statham will have their own football field next year.

It is so shameful that adults take to blogging at this level. It is even more disheartening that Mr. Buffington would even begin a forum of this type. It does nothing but bring the community down and hurt people. The coaches are human....they will make mistakes....but what happen to conversations. Which is what Coach Wagner did....call Mr. Buffington. I have 2 young men who have gone through the football program in Barrow County, and I did not always agree with everything, but it is FOOTBALL. The level of play at the high school level comes with good rec and middle school ball, which the has grown significantly in the past years.

Before you post again, please take a look at yourself and be honest. How much support have you given the team... not just your son. When was the last time you helped carpool so there could be an effective practice, or donated something that the team needed. And when it is your son, how often do you hold them responsible for good sportsmanship or their job on the field. We have this sense of my son is suppose, but if they want the spot tell them to go out there and earn it. Tell them to go to practice and be the best. Practice on season and off season. Dont blame the coach or favoritism. Be part of the solution and not the problem.

Funny thing, when Coach Wagner is gone, you will also be unhappy with the next coach.

I will also not purchase another Barrow Journal paper because this was not written with any good spirit for the community. In my eight years as a resident, I have never seen this type of forum of attack. Coaching our boys has more hurdles and frankly the pay does not suffice what they contribute.

Coach Wagner and Coach Davis thanks for what you and your staff have done for my boys. Football is so much more than what happen on the field. Good luck as you prepare yourselves and your teams for this next level of football.

We need newspapers that are responsible and do not take to the pen the very things join our community and youth.

Winning is an attitude that comes far beyond the field. I remember my son once saying, "Mom it is such a great energy boost when you hear the fans behind you cheering the team through the plays." Funny thing is, our visiting teams are louder that us at either school and come with half of the spectators. Cheering builds pride, pride gives effort.

Wagner will be gone soon. Probably many of the other coaches as well. The losing streak has already passed epic proportions and soon will reach an historic level. Talent may be down in Barrow, but it is not so terrible to have a record like that. How do you explain Apalachee's better record? Coaches must be held accountable. That is what they are paid for. Looks like a bunch of the coaches or their spouses are the ones posting on here.

Creel, BOE, or system issues has not received this much talk. What is more important? Just Saying

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