From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun Nov 3 22:09:51 PST 1996
Article: 78404 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!nntp-hub2.barrnet.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More Wayout Jewish Numbers
Date: 3 Nov 1996 23:00 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 25
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3NOV199623000876@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <3272e7e8.5289661@199.0.216.204> <328fba4a.7526427@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <328fba4a.7526427@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>
>> L.A.Times
>> Oct. 19, 1996
>>
>> "Rabbi Urges Jews to Overcome Bias in Seeking Converts"
>
>> The rabbi stated that the "Jewish mission, does not mean
^^^
>>denigration of other religions or vulgar promotion of evangelical
>>enthusiasm ... and circus conversion". ( "..." Times copy)
>
> Here we have the rabbi denigrating other religions as pointed out
>in the original post.
How you get "denigrating other religions" out of "does not mean
denigration" is beyond me.
I wish I could call the opposites police!
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Tue Nov 5 06:58:31 PST 1996
Article: 78559 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!news.acsu.buffalo.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.perot,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Jews, Blacks, Hispanics SMARTER than Whites!
Date: 3 Nov 1996 08:36 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 123
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <3NOV199608361887@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References:
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:106937 alt.revisionism:78559 alt.politics.perot:63023 talk.politics.misc:500823
In article , pdavies@tristar.org (Paul R. Davies) writes...
>Obviously, demonstrably smarter. Perhaps you think I'm being
>sarcastic?
Not me. I think you are misinformed.
>Not in the least! Because Jews, Blacks, Hispanics
>and others take care of each other. They do business with each
>other,
As do Irish, Italians, Greeks, Lutherans, etc.
>they vote to acquit their own when they get selected on juries,
Just as Southern whites did of lynchings.
>and they oppose those outside their racial group whenever they
>can. Don't think the Blacks are racially oriented? Ever hear
>of the NAACP?
Some Blacks are racially oriented, some are not. For example, have you
ever heard of the NAACP? :> It's mission runs counter to your
assertion just above. It does not oppose those outside of the "CP"s
racial group whenever it can - it strives to work with other racial
groups.
>And the Jews? They speak of the holo-hoax, but
>never a word about any other peoples' sufferings.
Actually, one other criticism of the Jews is that they were carpet
baggers in coming in masses to the South to support the civil rights
movement of the Blacks in the 1960s. Seems to me that that is more
than words about other peoples' sufferings, it was actions.
You don't see white power rangers commenting on this point very often
these days, do you?
>In the elections, Blacks and Hispanics consider how matters will
>affect them as a group, and many vote accordingly. Candidates
These days, hardly anyone votes as part of a group anymore. (And I
explicitely notice how you didn't include Jews on the list above.)
In fact, this election Clinton is successfully competing to split
Hispanic's vote in Floriday (which usually goes Repbulican.) While the
Democrats pretty well have the Mexican (which is technically not
hispanic) vote in California due to the Republican's decision to push
on immigration issues in their campaigns.
Blacks mostly vote Democrat, but that is simply a rational response to
the policies of both parties. The rational response is made at an
individual level, though, not on a full group basis.
>demonstrate a strong willingness to play the race card when
>possible. They do so because it works!
I agree with this statement.
>And what does poor, dumb, Whitey do? He mouths platitudes about
>tolerance, and equality, and opportunity for all. He doesn't dare
>stand by his own people for fear that someone might think him to
>be a racist! He'll vote against his race, whether in the voting
>booth or on a jury, so he can tell himself that he's not prejudiced.
No. "whitey" doesn't do this. Whitey behaves just as the other groups
behave. However, it is tougher to see this because: [1] "whitey" in
general is really a make up of many different groupings of peoples, and
[2] "whitey" in general is the majority and therefore it is tougher to
track whitey as opposed to general wisdom of society.
>And if a White person is a victim of a crime...well, that's never
>racially motivated is it? It's only a hate crime if a White is
No, not at all. It is usually reported as a racially motivated crime
when it is (which is often when it is black on white crime.) The most
famous case I can think of recently is the Reginald Denny beating, but
I read about racially motivated gang violence with regularity.
>accussed of something. If a gang rapes a little white girl, well...
>that's just kids, right? But if a White touched a black or hispanic
>girl, the uproar would span the country as the media bellowed for
>blood.
I have not noticed a difference in how such things are reported. Maybe
you have some examples?
>Perhaps you're White, and you don't agree. You realize that race
>matters, and that White Men and Women don't deserve any more
>exploitation and abuse. Are you willing to awaken, reclaim
>your heritage and prove that the others aren't smarter then we are?
Excuse me, but what is "white heritage"? Do you mean Scotch-Irish
heritage? Do you mean Teutonic heritage? Do you mean Prussian
heritage? Do you mean Russian heritage? Do you mean Nordic heritage?
Do you mean French heritage? How about Dutch? Belgian? English?
Belarussian? Lithuanian?
All of these heritages have slight differences from one another. And
many have fought bitter wars against others. Many of the above think
they are smarter than others in the above, which is correct? Is their
a hierarchy of smarts among whites? Of, as I surmise, is it all kind
of bullshit?
>Are you ready to become racially aware? And to admit to yourself that
>White Culture is worth saving? If so, maybe you are ready to be one of
White Culture? Again, all the same questions as above. What is white
culture? Is Sweedish culture the same as Russian? As Irish? Why do
the two Irish see themselves as so different? Why do the Dutch hate
the Germans? Aren't all these people white? Don't they have the same
culture? Aren't they all equally intelligent?
Or does you whole premise kind of lose focus here?
>us; a member of the National Socialist White People's Party.
Oh, you are a power ranger. Sorry for making inteligent observations
above. I hadn't realized until now you were such a weenie.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 06:12:40 PST 1996
Article: 78713 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More Wayout Jewish Numbers
Date: 6 Nov 1996 17:50 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 84
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6NOV199617502226@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <3272e7e8.5289661@199.0.216.204> <328fba4a.7526427@199.0.216.204> <3NOV199623000876@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <32825605.2152126@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <32825605.2152126@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> Mister Mittleman, here is exactly what was cited in the head
>article.
>
>The rabbi stated that the "Jewish mission, does not mean
>denigration of other religions or vulgar promotion of evangelical
>enthusiasm ... and circus conversion". ( "..." Times copy)
>
> Notice how the "..." is cited to be "Times copy". What was there
>before it was placed in the Times article I do not know. The "..." is
>Times copy.
>
> The rabbi's statement again.
>
>"Jewish mission, does not mean denigration of other religions or
>vulgar promotion of evangelical enthusiasm ... and circus conversion".
I have no problem with this statement. Do you? If so, exactly what?
He is saying, as best I can tell, that he does not believe Judaism puts
down other religions, that Judaism does not engage in demonstrative
evangelicalism, that that Judaism does not engage in circus conversion
(whatever that is). As far as I know, these are statements I can agree
with. They hardly sound all that controversial. So whats the big
deal?
> The sentence says what it says. The rabbi claims that any
>conversion process "does not mean denigration of other religions" --
>"or" -- "vulgar promotion of evangelical enthusiasm ... and circus
>conversion" which he is referring to the conversion process of other
>religions.
Or at least one other religion (which the article does not identify.)
>>That's Dr. Mittleman to you, zeyde.
>
> Mister Mittleman, your doctorate mind claims, "You have a history
>of being somewhat disengenous in your deletion selections".
>
> Did you comment on the following?
>
>"Judaism: In sermon to his synagogue,
>Rabbi Harold Schulweis ways the
>notion of conversion is upsetting to
>some Jews because they feel Judaism
>is less ideology than a biology."
No, I didn't. I stopped reading your article after the first
paragraph. It was so absurd there didn't seem much point in going on.
You, of course, are not so dense as to suggest that responding to only
one portion of an article is similar to selectively elipsing text
within a sentence to change its meaning (although I do accept that in
this case the elipses were in the original - it is conventional
practice to have pointed that out the first time you posted the
material, however.)
In regards to your butchering of the above Schulweis statements (you
have butchered the language, by the way): Yes, it is true that some
Jews believe Judaism to be a religion to which individuals can convert
into and out of while other Jews believe it to be a "peoples" of which
one has to be born into. That is all the Rabbi is saying. Again, this
is only controversial to those Luddites out there who think that all
Jews act and think and breathe in unison.
The rest of us find this much ado about nothing at all.
So, what issue do you see in the good Rabbi's comments?
> Well so much for the Jewish claims that Judaism isn't racist.
So much indeed!
>>So, what ARE you getting the grandkids for Chanukah this year?
I note you chose not to answer this question of mine. What kind of
zeyde are you, oh anti-semitic one?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 06:12:41 PST 1996
Article: 78724 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!csulb.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.texoma.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: 6 Nov 1996 18:02 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 31
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6NOV199618023824@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <55c9l1$1pcc@news.gate.net> <55hc9i$2ucq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net> <847303648.16749.0@vertigo.combase.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:89422 alt.revisionism:78724
Someone hard wired to Giwer at writes...
>Gord McFee wrote: ^^^^^^^
>
>> Mr. Giwer, on ISP number 3 (or is it 4?) continues his true "revisionist"
>> approach, by lying about his own posts, and lying about his own stated
>> intentions. He also, just in passing, erroneously implies that he has
>> succeeded at something, whereas the world knows he has failed at everything he
>> has tried.
>>
>> Mr. Giwer stated earlier that his intention was to make this newsgroup useless
>> and that he would control it. As we have all noticed, as he is booted from
>> ISP to ISP, he has failed--completely--on both counts. Now he is reduced to
>> snivelling little whines under assumed, forged or both, names.
>>
>
>Oh, but indeed, this post is a direct admission that his control over
>this newsgroup has not been broken. He's had you chasing your tails,
>reposting, crossposting, replying, and otherwise wasting your time
>rebuking him. He's beginning to accomplish that which he stated he
>would set out to do.
No he isn't. And even the white power rangers can see that. You have
to be Giwer or someone directly connected with him because you are so
far out on a limb in his defense. And he is so far gone no sane person
would support his behavior.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 06:12:42 PST 1996
Article: 78725 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!csulb.edu!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Followup-To: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Date: 6 Nov 1996 18:04 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 18
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6NOV199618041842@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net> <55qs50$bl5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:89423 alt.revisionism:78725
In article <55qs50$bl5@lendl.cc.emory.edu>, libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes...
>Hardwire (hardwire@vertigo.combase.com) wrote:
>
>: Everyone in this goddamned conference is a liar!
>
>Wait a sec--isn't this sentence a logical contradiction?
>
>Bill
Yes it is, but then you can't possibly really be Bill, now can you.
not daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
or not.
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 06:12:43 PST 1996
Article: 78771 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More stupidity from the lips of Hardwire.
Date: 6 Nov 1996 23:02 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 35
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6NOV199623022329@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <326F388C.370C171D@vertigo.combase.com> <846863630.14477.1@vertigo.combase.com> <55dla3$56t@access5.digex.net> <847334280.8623.4@vertigo.combase.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <847334280.8623.4@vertigo.combase.com>, Hardwire writes...
>Michael P. Stein wrote:
>>
>> In article <847310772.16749.13@vertigo.combase.com>,
>> Hardwire wrote:
>> >Michael P. Stein wrote:
>> >
>> >Isn't it funny how Matt Giwer is also listed in the phone book, and yet
>> >it's surprising that someone would need to harass his parents to verify
>> >his very existance.... hmmm.. go figure...
>>
>> Isn't it funny that the only Matt Giwer on Switchboard and on the
>> CD-ROM of all listed phone numbers in America is Matt Giwer, Sr. in
>> Cinncinnati.
>>
>> Please prove that Matt's parents were harrassed. A simple phone call
>> does not constitute harrassment.
>
>Isn't it also funny that you'd resort to using a digital phone book to
>look someone up, when any printed/stored information by default is
>always outdated. Really funny that you'd not try and use INFORMATION,
>you know, 411 (or 1411 depending on the area you're in, and when that
>fails, just 0).
>
>And... I don't HAVE to prove harassment...
>
>I'm just here to annoy you.
killfile!
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 07:55:51 PST 1996
Article: 78781 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: 7 Nov 1996 07:07 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 23
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <7NOV199607074053@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com><558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <55c9l1$1pcc@news.gate.net> <55hc9i$2ucq$5@news-s01.ca.us.ibm.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:89518 alt.revisionism:78781
In article , schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes...
>In article <847333778.8623.1@vertigo.combase.com>, Hardwire
> wrote:
>
>> Alright!!! I've made it onto a killfile!! Yay!
>>
>> -- Hardwire
>
>And this shows quite nicely the maturity level we're dealing with here.
No. It is just Giwer, or a Giwerish ally, who is engaging in Giwer's
stated objective of posting irritating twaddle to keep us all busy.
Hardwire is simply playing at posting at a low maturity level.
It SHOULD be killfiled as this hardwire character is saying nothing to
move holocaust discussion forward and is intentionally being
disruptive.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Thu Nov 7 10:43:49 PST 1996
Article: 78793 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!mr.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More Wayout Jewish Numbers
Date: 6 Nov 1996 17:56 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 45
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <6NOV199617564013@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <3272e7e8.5289661@199.0.216.204> <328fba4a.7526427@199.0.216.204> <3NOV199623000876@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <32845a17.3194273@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <32845a17.3194273@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> Mister Mittleman, the head article also makes a point about the
>ethnocentric lie that the Jews went on a huge conversion program that
>resulted in 8 million (8,000,000) people coming to join the Hebrew
>movement by the 1st Century. Mr.Edeiken gave it shot, I responded and
>he never came back to challenge my calling his bluff. Maybe you would
>like to give it a try.
Sorry, I missed that entire discussion between you and Mr. Edeiken. I
took a sabbatical from a.r last month. No, I have no desire to comment
on Judaism in the first century A.D. (or C.E., as the Jews often call
it) as I know relatively little of Jewish history. I really was never
much interested in the subject.
Other than your and Yale's outstanding track records, I have no way to
evaluate which of you is correct on this point.
>>> Ethnocentrically insane. Racist to the hilt. That's you
>>>Mr.Mittleman.
>>
>>That's Dr. Mittleman to you, zeyde.
>
> Mister Mittleman, when it comes to all things Jewish, you can see
>no evil, hear no evil or speak no evil. Mister Mittleman, you are
>ethnocentrically insane. That's the problem with massive
>indoctrination that is there to await the life emerging from the womb.
>It knows not.
I think you must have me mistaken for someone else. However, my father
would be extremely amused by this statement given all the anti-Zionist
and anti-theist things I have said to him over the years.
I could tell you such stories... but I think not.
>>So, what ARE you getting the grandkids for Chanukah this year?
Me, I don't give Chanukah presents. But then, I don't have any Jewish
grandkids. How about you, zeyde?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun Nov 10 06:53:36 PST 1996
Article: 79010 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news-out.internetmci.com!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Big brother Mcvay is watching
Date: 9 Nov 1996 08:55 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 118
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <9NOV199608551979@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <553lk0$df0@news.sas.ab.ca> <328367b9.75580551@news.zilker.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
>intphase@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca () wrote:
An alias for Grosvenor who for some reason is hesitant to write under
his own name.
>>KEN MCVAY - A PROFILE
>>
>>Information provided by the Edmonton Journal (a supporter)
Possibly. Or possibly it is a heavily doctored interpretation of what
have been printed there.
>>He appears as an scruffy aging hippy. At 55 he still can't manage a
>>decent haircut. The pony tail is just plain ugly.
This is opinion. I bet the Journal didn't call the pony tail ugly:
that is Grosvenor editorializing.
So what? What connection can there be between McVay's looks and the
validity of the Holocaust.
>>He served as a marine - they couldn't stand him.
He served as a marine. He was honorably discharged. Why does
Grosvenor insist they couldn't stand him? He doesn't say. Grosvenor
is no better at character assassination than he is at Holocaust denial.
If I ever write that Grosvenor is inconsistent, someone correct me
please.
>>He served as a policeman - they couldn't stand him.
This is the first I have ever heard of this career. Just what,
exactly, did the Journal say about it? "They couldn't stand him" is
not credible due to its incorrect use in the sentence above.
>>He left the United States - they couldn't stand him.
Nah. Gallup took a poll. I think it was something like 58-42 we
wanted him to stay. :>
>>He entered Canada - We will take anything won't we?
>>We accept criminals, aids carriers and any other garbage.
You took Zundel. Hell, you took YOU!
>>His computer consulting business failed.
He closed it. Did he leave any outstanding debts? You have no idea,
do you? Is a closed business that pays all its bills a failure?
>>While unemployed he then
He worked in between closing the consultign business and his current
status. He now labels himself as "retired". He is at least as retired
as Giwer is, wouldn't you say?
>>discovered the wonders of fighting what he thinks is racism. He is
>>allegedly is employed by something called Nizkor (Hebrew for We
He isn't employed by Nizkor. He is the founder of Nizkor. He doesn't
(or at least didn't the last time I spoke with him) receive a salary
from Nizkor.
Nizkor began by looking just at anti-semitism and Holocaust denial. It
is gradually expanding to deal with racism issues as well. It is easy
as many anti-semites are also racists.
>>Remember). This group is largely funded by Jewish groups. So it seems
Is it? I haven't seen a funding list, have you? Please print it here
and "out" Nizkor. I would live to see who is finding it and how much
each is giving.
But you don't have such a list. You are simply making this up, aren't
you?
>>he "works" for a people that believe they are the chosen people -- and
>>then he has the gall to call many detractors racists.
1. He doesn't "work" for Jews.
2. You misunderstand the concept of "chosen people", but of course that
doesn't matter as he doesn't work for Jews.
3. Many of his detractors ARE racists. You, for example.
>>He has a Stanford University computer program that allows him to scour
>>the newsgroups for nasty messages. So playing God and doing his big
Um, we all have access to DejaNews these days. It is very easy to
scour newsgroups for any string one wants to.
It was this technique someone used two weeks ago to demonstrate that
Blackmore, a guy who was making anti-semitic, hate-filled statements in
alt.revisionism, was also trying to pass himself off as a thirteen year
old girl trying to make friends in another newsgroup. You wouldn't
happen to know any details about this, would you Grosvenor?
>>brother act (We are watching you) for 16 hours a day, he gets to play!
It is a valuable service. Luckily it isn't just Ken who does this
these days. Many people are joining forces to track hate speech on the
web. It is a valuable contribution to society, IMHO.
>>The rest of us have to have real jobs to feed our families.
Really, Grosvenor, you have a job? What kind of work do you do?
Giwer doesn't have a job. Baron doesn't have a job. Irving doesn't
have a job. Zundel doesn't have a job. You all simply fritter around
the edges of the hate community; some of you occasionally making a few
bucks selling hate propoganda.
Why don't you try again with some real data, Grosvenor?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun Nov 10 06:53:37 PST 1996
Article: 79039 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-lond.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: A Certain Perspective
Date: 9 Nov 1996 09:30 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 32
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <9NOV199609302388@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <32848ef6.762029@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <32848ef6.762029@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> Six million Jews killed?
>
>If we could line up that many people in rows, toe to heal and ten
>across, the whole line would be about a hundred miles long.
>
>If you started at one end in a car and drove along side these ten rows
>at 60 miles an hour, it would take you about an hour and a half before
>you got to the other end.
>
>Think about that the next time you take a spin.
Yes, please do. Please contemplate the enormity of the Holocaust. If
you wonder why fifty years later people get so emotional about it,
consider its size as one of the many reasons for the emotion. Consider
this for the 90 minutes it takes you to drvie by the imaginary line.
And consider as you drive the 90 minutes back in the other direction
that here are another 6 million people, this time non-Jews, who the
Nazis also exterminated.
Really, really nasty people these Nazis. Makes one wonder why Tommy is
so deep in denial he can't see it. Makes me sad to think he is a
Jewish grandfather and he is spreading this hatred to his grandkids (if
he is ever allowed to see them, that is.)
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sun Nov 10 06:53:38 PST 1996
Article: 79047 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!news.akorn.net!news.his.com!news2.cais.net!news.cais.net!in1.nntp.cais.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Some Holocaust Facts
Date: 9 Nov 1996 09:25 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 110
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <9NOV199609255599@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <32858f03.774442@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <32858f03.774442@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> [repost]
>
> Anywhere from 600,000 to 4 million Jews were gassed at Auschwitz.
FACT: No credible historian currently concludess there were more than
1,500,000 Jews gassed at Auschwizt (and almost all conclude between
800,000 and 1,100,000.) Tommy could demonstrate me wrong by citing a
recent study by a credible historian which demonstrates differently.
He can't, though.
> The total number of people to have been exterminated by the Nazis
>during the WWII period is 10 million, 11 million or 12 million.
FACT: Tommy is correct about this fact for the exterminations generally
referred to as the Holocaust.
> Although none have been found and identified, there are at least
>15 mass grave sites where at least 10 thousand people and up to 40,000
>and on to 2,000,000 were buried and/or cremated in each one.
FACT: Maybe someone else can help here as I do not know enough about
this information. I would be surprised if there is a mass grave of
2,000,000. I can believe the first two numbers. I can't validate
Tommy's facts on this point.
> Regardless of whether or not the 46 identified incinerator
>chambers at Auschwitz have barely the volume of a refrigerator, 200
>people a day could be cremated in each one.
FACT: yes.
> Even though it takes modern day cremation facilities to cremate
>one (1) body 1 1/2 to 2 hours, cremation ovens at Majdanek could
>reduce four (4) bodies to charred bbone in ten minutes.
FACT: yes. This is due to the Nazis having very different quality
standards than modern day cremators.
> Sometimes the whole process was kept in secret, sometimes it
>wasn't.
FACT: A very vague statement, but yes. In general the Nazis tried to
keep the Holocaust a secret as it was occurring, but an operation that
large cannot totally be kept secret. Too many people were involved
with parts of the process.
> There were 700,000, 800,000 or 900,000 Jews in Hungary before the
>war. Somewhere between 200,000 and 400,000 were exterminated at
>Auschwitz.
FACT: I don't have any references in front of me, but yes this sounds
reasonable.
> Even though it was once said there were 700,000 Jews in France
>before the war and the figure is now put at 70,000, the number of Jews
>said to have been in Hungary and also found on the same list as the
>700,000 French, the figure for the Hungarian Jews still stands.
FACT: Yes. Tommy has noted that there exists an error on one of the
census lists commonly used to calculate the number of Jews who died in
the Holocaust. He has no idea how this error was caused or why it is
there, but concludes from it that other parts of the list or other
lists must be in error. He draws this conclusion without considering
that many of the figures on these lists are corroborated by other data
(which is how we know this one number is wrong!). Consequently, his
thesis that lots of numbers may be wrong because this one number is
wrong carries no weight.
> Any eye witness accounts and testimony for the Holocaust story
>supercede any against it.
FACT: No. But Tommy is welcome to expand on this point if he likes.
> Any discrepancies or contradictions found in eyewitness
>testimonies should not be looked on with suspicion.
FACT: No. Of course they should.
> Questioning the Holocaust story is an act of hate and those do
>are "neo-Nazis" and "anti-Semitic".
FACT: Many who choose to question the Holocaust are engaging in acts of
hate. Tommy, for example. However, revising history in itself is not
an act of hate; it is a natural extension of the historical process.
Those in alt.revisionisim who question the Holocaust tend, though, to
do so with such poorly formulated filters that even when they do
occasionally stumble on legitimate points, they can't see them clearly
due ot their own hatred.
> Even though many revisions to the Holocaust story have taken
>place, with many of the old accounts being generally recognized as
>lies, any surviving accounts are to be accepted unconditionally.
FACT: First, yes, many revisions have taken place. More surely will.
Second, few if any of the old accounts are generally recognized as lies
(Tommy may present documentation to the contrary if he can). Third, no
surviving accounts are accepted unconditionally. But the generally
accepted truth is accepted until and unless evidence is presented to
show there is a better interpretation of truth.
Needs work Tommy. When you post this again in a month, maybe you will
try to address my points. {heh!}
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Wed Nov 13 06:27:57 PST 1996
Article: 79313 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!data.ramona.vix.com!news1.digital.com!decwrl!news-ext.crl.dec.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Holocaust knowledge revised! So says the Washington Post.
Date: 10 Nov 1996 21:58 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 69
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <10NOV199621582533@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Lookee here Tommy, the revisionists are right after all! The Holocaust
"story" (as you call it) wasn't correct. It required revision, and
more revision is still going on!
To wit, a story in today's Washington Post. To place the whole thing
here would be copyright violation, but you can find it at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WPlate/1996-11/10/139L-111096-idx.html
(which is more of a cite than you ever give)
Some highlights below...
---------------------------------------------------
Title: Decoded Cables Revise History of Holocaust
German Police Implicated; British Knew
By Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 10 1996; Page A01
The Washington Post
The date was July 18, 1941, less than a month after Nazi Germany's
blitzkrieg attack on the Soviet Union. As was his custom, the German
commander in the western Soviet republic of Belarus provided his
superiors in Berlin with a daily update of the activities of the men
under his command.
"In yesterday's cleansing action in Slonim, carried out by Police
regiment center," wrote Erich von dem Bach-Zelewski, in the dry,
matter-of-fact tone of the German military bureaucrat, "1,153 Jewish
plunderers were shot."
During the course of the next four years, tens of thousands of such
reports would be filed, describing the methodically planned mass
extermination of an entire people. But this particular report is
remarkable for several reasons:
It is one of the earliest pieces of documentary evidence for what later
became known as the Holocaust. It is new evidence that much of the
killing was carried out by ordinary German police units, and not the
elite SS. And it was intercepted and deciphered by British signals
intelligence within three days of its original transmission.
...
"The Holocaust began on Soviet soil," said Wesley Fisher, deputy
director of research at the Holocaust Museum. "Up to now, however, this
has been the unknown face of the Holocaust. The Germans did not keep
records of everybody they were killing."
...
Historians who have worked on the Russian materials say that the total
number of Holocaust victims may have to be revised up from the 6
million to 7 million estimated after the war. Breitman estimates that
at least half a million Jews were killed in the Soviet Union during the
six months prior to December 1941.
....
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Little did you think, Tommy, that revisionism would lead to increasing
the count of the Holocaust.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Tue Nov 19 06:44:19 PST 1996
Article: 79893 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.alfred.edu!news.sprintlink.net!news-pen-14.sprintlink.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Now it's SEVEN !?! million
Date: 14 Nov 1996 08:54 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 39
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <14NOV199608540589@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <3288E0B7.4C48@copper-mt.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <3288E0B7.4C48@copper-mt.com>, jrh@copper-mt.com writes...
>Watched the Eichman movie on cable the other night. The postscript text
>stated that the death toll from the "holocaust" was 7 million. Having
>watched these estimates grow from 1.5 million in the sixties to six
>million in recent years I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I suppose we
>should all expect to see this number become the standard whine soon.
>"While 7 million died" etc. No doubt Nizkor will document this as real
>based on more extrapolations from non-existent eastern-European village
>records.
Actually, the number is 10 to 12 million, unless you are unconcerned
about the deaths of non-Jews.
You recollection of estimates of 1.5 million in the 1960s in incorrect.
The estimates of 6 million or so Jews and 10 to 12 million overall have
been the order of magnitude of deaths held by historians and
demographers since the late 1940s. Possibly you are thinking of
estimates of 1.5 million Jews dying at Auschwitz alone? That would
have been a high estimate for Auschwitz, but some
historian/demographers have suggested it.
I don't know why the Eichman movie suggested 7 million Jews died; again
it is within the range historian/demographers have suggested but it is
at the very high end of the range. You might find it interesting to
note that newspaper accounts this week of recent archival discoveries
have suggested that conventional wisdom of the number of deaths may
grow to be about 7 million Jews (presumably 11 to 13 million overall).
But these discoveries were clearly made after the Eichman movies, so
they are independent of the statements made in that movie.
I am curious as to your other remark. On what grounds do you say that
the Eastern-European villages where many Jews reportedly died were
"non-existent"?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Mon Nov 25 06:23:54 PST 1996
Article: 81005 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!thor.atcon.com!nntp.maxim.net!ki.net!visi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!feed1.news.erols.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Having Their Say Galore
Date: 9 Nov 1996 09:00 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 40
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <9NOV199609005254@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <3285c525.2159705@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <3285c525.2159705@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> Full page ad, N.Y.Times, Nov. 8, 1996
>
> "THIS SUNDAY,
> WITNESS THE FILM THAT CRITICS ARE
> CALLING 'A STUNNING THRILLER'"
>
> "A MASTERPIECE"
>
> A picture of telescopic cross hairs on Robert Duvall, evidently
>playing the role of Eichmann.
[snip]
> So here we have yet, yet, yet more major accommodations for the
>Holocaust story, complete with rave reviews and prime time. Since I
>watch very little TV I don't know how much touting it will get on TNT
>up to that time, but I would say it would be considerable.
>
> One should wonder what the problem is for those who are so
>adamant and reliant on the Holocaust story. They get all this major
>accommodation and yet when it comes to any accommodation for
>revisionist, in the papers, on TV or campuses all we get is
>"anti-Semitism", "neo-Nazi" and "Hate".
It is in how you present it, Tommy. We have gone through this before.
You posts are filled with anti-semitism and hate (you have not made any
neo-Nazi statements that I recall.)
So, Tommy, did you happen to see the anti-German Scientology ad two
pages in front of this one in the Times? How come you haven't started
picking on the Scientologists for being anti-German? Why are you being
so selective here?
And how are those Chanukah gifts coming for the grandkids?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Mon Nov 25 06:23:55 PST 1996
Article: 81514 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.win.hookup.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!news.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Holocaust/O.J.Simpson trial analogy
Date: 23 Nov 1996 19:04 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 38
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <23NOV199619041980@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <329acb61.5164213@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <329acb61.5164213@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>
> If the O.J.Simpson trial had no photographs of the crime scene,
>no blood tests or any other forensic evidence and only had the
>testimony of the person that said he heard a dog bark, then it would
>be comparable to the Holocaust trials.
Funny you should bring this up zeyde, as I was just discussing with
friends a few days ago how similar the Simpson defense is, in
structure, to the arguments of you Holocaust deniers.
In spite of your rather ignorant statement above, there is in fact a
considerable mass of evidence to demonstrate Simpson's guilt. And
while no single piece of evidence is conclusive (though I am partial to
the DNA findings), the accumulation of the evidence is overwhelming.
The Simpson defense has dealt with this overwhelming amount of evidence
in exactly the same way Holocaust deniers deal with overwhelming
Holocaust evidence. They have selected particular pieces of that
evidence and attempted to show how those particular pieces are in error
or forged. They presume that if they can demonstrate errors or
malfeasance with one or a few pieces of evidence then they can
extrapolate to conclude most to all evidence is wrong.
So, zeyde, do you buy into this logic? If I can show you one piece of
Simpson evidence is wrong or forged, will you agree with me that OJ is
in fact innocent? Or, as I would suspect, do you hold OJ and the
Holocaust to different standards of evidence?
danny
PS: You spending Chanukah with the family this year, zeyde?
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Mon Nov 25 06:23:56 PST 1996
Article: 81539 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-2.sprintlink.net!news.pilot.net!news-out.internetmci.com!peerfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism,alt.bonehead.matt-giwer
Subject: Re: Twelve Questions Matt Giwer won't Answer (Month 11)
Date: 24 Nov 1996 06:46 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 21
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <24NOV199606463540@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <56uksf$778@viper.txdirect.net> <329305ac.38020458@news.gte.net> <56vin6$kv8@bell.maths.tcd.ie> <3297aec4.29538500@news.gte.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.revisionism:81539 alt.bonehead.matt-giwer:670
In article <3297aec4.29538500@news.gte.net>, j@j.m writes...
>
> The truth is only that Ken McVay, is now clearly proven to be the
>front and shill for a jewish organization which he has always claimed
>he was not.
>
> But tell me, would you knowingly contribute to an obscure synagogue
>in Vancouver when you DID NOT KNOW it owned Nizkor? It reads like
>fraud to me but that will be up to Revenue Canada to decide after I
>get their address and forward the information as known.
Even under aliases, Giwer still makes idle threats.
If he does ever sober up enough to carry out one of these threats, he
had better make sure he violates no libel or slander laws in doing so.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Mon Nov 25 06:23:56 PST 1996
Article: 81677 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: 24 Nov 1996 06:48 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 29
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <24NOV199606484721@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94126 alt.revisionism:81677
In article , schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes...
>In article <32976945.11747908@news.gte.net>, j@j.m wrote:
>
>[incredibly long quoted post snipped]
>
>Mr. Giwer....
>
>please knock it off.
>
>You're not even amusing anymore, just plain pathetic.
He has been pathetic for several months now.
>Go away, little man.
That should read, "go away, little boy."
>Sara
>
>--
>"I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
> Samuel Butler
>
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Tue Nov 26 06:24:42 PST 1996
Article: 81888 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!news.BSDI.COM!uunet!in2.uu.net!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Bye, Bye, "Master Plan"?
Date: 25 Nov 1996 08:55 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 51
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <25NOV199608553941@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <328e83b3.273361@199.0.216.204> <3293973e.5276370@199.0.216.204> <576rr5$rlv$1@gruvel.une.edu.au> <329cafac.413310@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <329cafac.413310@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>d.A. writes:
>>tom moran (tm@pacificnet.net) wrote:
>>:
>>: Holocaust propagandists citing the "Wannasee Conference" are out
>>: to show a premeditated master plan by Germany to exterminate all the
>>: Jews.
>>:
>>Not a "master plan", but stated and implemented aim,
>>"strategic objective" if you prefer. Several ways
>>of achieveing this aim were tried and tested. The
>>gas chambers were the culmination.
>>
>>If you are interested in details of the planning,
>>a good place to start is
>>
>>"Vordenker der Vernichtung.
>>Auschwitz und die deutschen Plaene fuer eine
>>neue europaeische Ordnung."
>>
>>It is by Goetz Aly and Susanne Heimp,
>>published by Hoffmann und Campe Verlag, Hamburg
>>in 1991.
>>
>>ISBN 3-455-08366-8
>>
>>I trust that is precise enough to make it easy
>>to track down.
>
> Mountain out of a mole hill stuff? You go for the mountain out of
>the little details to show a master plan and I'll go for what the over
>all shows.
TRANSLATION: You do the historiography to build knowledge out of the
component pieces of information and I will continue to believe what I
want to believe.
> It's funny how the Holocaust dedicated have spent years of words
>to show and proclaim the master plan, and now here we have a trend
>that is shying away from the master plan, regardless of any books that
>specializes in trying to sell the master plan theory.
The "Holocaust dedicated" are doing revisionism. Funny that.
Zeyde has had too much dreidel playing. His head is spinning.
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Tue Nov 26 06:46:34 PST 1996
Article: 94126 of soc.culture.jewish
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.mag-net.com!aurora.cs.athabascau.ca!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!news.bc.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.jewish,fl.general,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: Attack on Alt.Revisionism -- Gate.Net Refuses to Help
Date: 24 Nov 1996 06:48 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 29
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <24NOV199606484721@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <558uaj$38a@panix2.panix.com> <559u0o$1m2s@news.gate.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.culture.jewish:94126 alt.revisionism:81677
In article , schwartz@infinet.com (Sara aka Perrrfect) writes...
>In article <32976945.11747908@news.gte.net>, j@j.m wrote:
>
>[incredibly long quoted post snipped]
>
>Mr. Giwer....
>
>please knock it off.
>
>You're not even amusing anymore, just plain pathetic.
He has been pathetic for several months now.
>Go away, little man.
That should read, "go away, little boy."
>Sara
>
>--
>"I do not mind lying, but I hate inaccuracy."
> Samuel Butler
>
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/
From dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu Sat Nov 30 11:27:34 PST 1996
Article: 82520 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!nic.mtl.hookup.net!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!newsjunkie.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!lantana.singnet.com.sg!violet.singnet.com.sg!newsvr.cyberway.com.sg!news.sprintlink.net!news-stk-11.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-12.sprintlink.net!tezcat!feed1.news.erols.com!howland.erols.net!cs.utexas.edu!ennfs.eas.asu.edu!noao!news.Arizona.EDU!bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu!dmittleman
From: dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: More "whispers" for Holocaust Gold. Gimme, Gimme
Date: 25 Nov 1996 08:50 MST
Organization: University of Arizona (BPA)
Lines: 28
Distribution: world
Message-ID: <25NOV199608500259@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
References: <329b6684.3187847@199.0.216.204> <329e7331.6432376@199.0.216.204> <329bafa1.402215@199.0.216.204>
NNTP-Posting-Host: bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50
In article <329bafa1.402215@199.0.216.204>, tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes...
>>
>> This latest article also relates,
>>
>> "Long rumored, rarely found, such accounts are part of the an
>>enduring mystery of the Holocaust. ...
>
> Really, what "mystery" is there to the "rarely" substantiated
>"rumors". It's no mystery. Just change the word "rumors" to 'lies' and
>the word "rarely" to 'never' and we can see what the "mystery" is,
>then we can change the word "mystery" into 'obvious'.
No mysteries, huh zeyde? So we already know all there is to know about
the Holocaust? Everything that doesn't fit your model is a lie?
Well if there are no mysteries to be unraveled there isn't much room
for revisionism, is there zeyde?
You buy the grandkids dreidels yet, zeyde?
[No courtesy copy sent as Tommy emailed me to say he doesn't want me
to.]
daniel david mittleman
===========================================================================
For more information on the Holocaust see The Nizkor Project
Europe: http://www1.de.nizkor.org/~nizkor/
North America: http://www.nizkor.org/

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and
to combat hatred.
Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may
include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and
provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist
and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.