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Should I spend more money or let my bees die

I was given a swarm in early July. It probably had 1000 bees. This is my first hive. I put it in a new deep, 10 frame hive body, with plastic foundation.
The bees immediately went to work building. I would open about once a week to check and was excited to see the progress. They were building pretty fast it seemed. After a few weeks it seemed like I had a lot more drones than my dads hive across town. I got to checking and could never find a queen and started looking at brood and it was a lot different than my dads hive also. It was all drone cell and had mutli larvae in cells. I came to conclusion I had a laying worker. My dad let me have a frame of brood and some nurse bees put them in hive hoping they would build a queen cell but, I had no luck. So, first week in August I bought a carnolian queen and installed her in hive bees ate her out of cage in a day and balled her outside hive, I rescued her and put her back in cage and replaced queen candy and they ate her out of cage in a day again and killed her. I ordered another queen at end of August and put her in cage with the hive and they seemed very aggressive and killed her nurse bees so I put her in a push cage and kept her there for 4 days and brushed all the bees out of hive about 100 yards from hive and then let her go. She is doing great and laying a lot of eggs but, now for my question..... I have very few bees probably less than 500 and I am afraid they will not make it through winter seems like they may have enough stores but not enough to stay warm. I see were people give them pollen patties to keep the queen laying but it cost more money. I am doing the sugar water to help, but do you guys have any suggestions and sorry for the long post just wanted u guys too know what time and effort I have invested. We usually freeze here about Oct. 31

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

I have to agree with SRatcliff.

If your estimate is correct, 500 bees is less than a cup full. Not sustainable. And a large proportion of those bees are, at this point, already very old. The only reason some will still be alive, ironically, is that they haven't had the stress of raising a lot of brood.

And winter is looming.

Without injecting pretty much a colony worth of bees and brood and a queen, oh, and supplies, I don't think you have time to get this back in a viable position.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

what is Amarillo like. Hear in Florida we are still months away from winter. I have had several swarms collected in November that went thru the winter well. If your temp is good for another two months get a couple of frames of brood from your dad and try to keep the hive going. If not use the newspaper trick and add your bees to one of your dads hives and start fresh in the spring. I have a hive that I collected in a Styrofoam box two days before thanksgiving last year that had probably a cup full of bees. That hive is thriving and one of my best hives.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

This fall and winter go to the public library and check out a couple of books on honey bee management. They will answer a few of your questions and give you some pointers on how to requeen, feed, etc. You will find working your bees more fun when you know what to expect.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

You have already invested in two queens. Since you have a queen in the hive that you had to pay for it doesn't make much sense to just toss them. I would at least give them a chance. All it is going to cost you is some sugar. Last year I lost what I thought was my best hive, and I had a very and I mean a very weak hive that had about enough bees to cover one side of a frame, this was the 1st of November and they made it through the winter. I had a carnie queen in that hive, too. I did set this hive on top of a strong hive with a double screen bottom, though. Point is with bees anything is possible. Give them a chance, you never know!

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Decide if the sugar you will need to get them through the winter is worth it to you. If it will take 40 pounds of sugar it will cost about $20. It would be better still if you could get that frame of brood and nurse bees from your dad that Squarepeg was talking about. Personally I would try it if for no other reason than to see if I could learn something new.

Excellent job turning that laying worker hive around by the way. I haven't been successful doing that yet. Nice job.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

i think there's time with two months before first frost. you'll need that frame of bees and brood, and if you don't have a nuc box, i would make a divider board to reduce the space in the ten frame box to five frames.

journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Squarepeg, I actually did get a frame with nurse bees about a week ago and they were hatching a few days ago even had a few queen cells but when my new queen started laying I removed the queen the 2 queen cells, I do agree with Bill, I sure hate to lose what I have if they have a chance, they were bringing in pollen like madmen today and sugar is cheap but I just did not know if I should go further and get pollen patties and whatnot, very good I idea to squeeze my box down though, did not think of that. i was going to buy a nuc

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

I agree with going for it and getting perhaps even one more frame of brood. Put the bees in a nuc box and feed them pollen patty and syrup for a while. If you have stores put them over the nuc box in a second and third deep nuc. In a month there should be plenty of bees. I wintered some that had 5 frames of brood and a box of comb over them and I fed them and they made it. The feeding will really get that queen laying. Good Luck!

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Looks like yo are on the right track. If you can get another frame of brood and make an end board for your box to close it down to nuc size then you could be off and running. I would not give up after all the effort you have made this season.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

I am a fan of the phrase, "A man has got to know his limitations" by Dirty Harry. The only way you will know your bees limitation sis to test them. Five them feed, Give them pollen patties. See what the take, You may be surprised.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Here is what I would do but it would require you can gain access to the resources. First I would restore the population by adding three frames of capped brood. this not only produces more bees. it also produces places for the queen to lay and produce even more brood. I would also reduce them to a 5 frame box feed them both sugar water and pollen sub and get them as ready for winter as possible. May work may not but you are guarantee to know the results of giving up.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Update, the queen is doing great and laying a lot of eggs. The hive had tripled in size the last 3 weeks. They were bringing in lots of orange pollen and now bright yellow. Have been feeding sugar water with honey-b-healthy. Question... I have my hive between a garage and a 8' fence it get about 1 hour of sun at about 9 a.m. and shade the rest of the day. Most of my backyard is shaded. Should I leave hive where it is or move it where it gets more sun, which would be from from 11 am to about 3 pm. Average temp here in Amarillo for winter is... The coldest day of the year is January 2, with an average low of 23°F and high of 48°F.

Re: Should I spend more money or let my bees die

Thanks Rob, I was just a little nervous since my hive went without a queen for so long and just now trying to get back on track. I am kinda scared to move it and lose any bees, but i also don't want them to freeze