Mark Shuttleworth: "I simply have zero interest in the crowd who wants to be different. Leet. 'Linux is supposed to be hard so it's exclusive' is just the dumbest thing that a smart person could say." He's right. Lots of interesting insights in this blog post - I may not agree with everything Ubuntu does, but at least it's doing something.

How ironic when it was your "I've work with people like you before" comment that first lowered the tone.

It depends how you choose to take it.

And this is where your arguments keep falling down. You accuse me of missing the point yet you're constantly jumping to conclusions.

Because they are the natural conclusion to jump to.

The canonical going their own way, MIR is going to be buggy as hell for the first few releases. Valve is going to start asking them what they are playing at.

There is enough issues trying to get games that worked on Windows 7 and Vista to work on 8 (Crysis just won't launch unless I really fiddle). How do you think it is going to play out on a different kernel, userspace etc? Even John Carmack has said they should probably just invest efforts into WINE instead.

Sorry it is not called jumping to conclusions it about reading between the lines.

There is your problem; you load a hands on distro to tinker with rather than an "it just works" distro. Then complain that Linux doesn't "just work" like Windows.

I don't expect it to work like Windows, However I can do this thing called looking at it from a different point of view.

Other people don't care how something works as long as it works.

No shit Sherlock. Do you have any idea how expensive it is to employ developers, designers, advertisers and so on? And you can't have commercial success without having a company running in the first bloody place.

But no, apparently in your world Linux should be commercially successful without anyone working full time on it and without any companies to back it. Apparently software becomes successful by magic.

Yes I do understand the expenses.

Which is why I said fragmentation is a problem, resources being split because of stupid arguments in the community. The currently small amount of resources aren't being focused.

Linus's mentality doesn't help either.

Apparently while we are name calling, that was too much of a stretch in your imagination.

...and your point is that there's only room for one UNIX-like OS on the desktop?

No that isn't what I meant. I am saying that is the only one at the moment which is getting it right.

A lot of prominent people have moved from MacOSX in the JS community and I have spoken to people at work who have done the same ... they don't have time to fiddle any longer and MacOSX has the tools they need and they are happy to pay the premium.

No, it's a natural argument to speculate. My issue is how you keep touting your assumptions as fact.

Sorry it is not called jumping to conclusions it about reading between the lines.

Don't even both with that bullshit. You're not in possession of all the facts as events haven't even started to play themselves out yet. So while your point of view might be a logical assumption (after all, I did raise the same concerns), it's still far too early to make an informed prediction. Thus you are jumping to conclusions.

The difference between you and the others is that everyone else at least had the maturity to say their conclusion was speculative; however you seem to think that anything you dream up is an absolute fact - even if your statement is years off actually happening.

<rant>
And this is why there's so many f--king arguments on sites like these. People are unwilling to ever make a reasonable argument. It's always one extreme point of view, or the complete polar opposite. And then those instigators get all pissy when people don't agree with their absurd extremism.
</rant>

I don't expect it to work like Windows, However I can do this thing called looking at it from a different point of view.

So can I. I'm a huge Linux critic. I'm also a huge Linux fan. I can do this thing called "seeing things from all perspectives and not seeing things as one extreme or another"

And I resent the implication that I'm a fanboy given I was the one who kicked off the complaints about Linux in this topic.

Yes I do understand the expenses.

Which is why I said fragmentation is a problem, resources being split because of stupid arguments in the community. The currently small amount of resources aren't being focused.

That I do agree with. Personally I like the fragmentation but it is a double edged sward and, from the new user perspective, it does create more issues than it solves.

The wider community doesn't help either. And in that I mean when new users post thread like "which Linux for a newbie" only to get met by a page of posts, each recommending a different distro. I facepalm every time I see threads like those.

As much as I personally hate Ubuntu, I love the fact that there was a distro that stood out for new users. It's just a pity that (in my opinion at least) Ubuntu is marred by bad design decisions.

Linus's mentality doesn't help either.

Linus isn't really too bad in my opinion. I think he's more pragmatic than some. It's RMS who I wish would just shut the hell up (don't get me wrong, I admire his vision. But I don't think his constant outbursts are at all helpful these days).

Apparently while we are name calling, that was too much of a stretch in your imagination.

erm, you're the only one name calling.
I wont deny that I've been blunt and condescending, but you're the one who resorted to name calling.

Now it seems you are jumping to conclusions ;-).

It was a question, not a statement. You can tell because it's postfixed with a question mark rather than a period/full stop.

No, it's a natural argument to speculate. My issue is how you keep touting your assumptions as fact.

No I don't. I call it as I see it from experience. I could be wrong. I don't really care it is an internet message board.

The same things have plagued desktop Linux for the past ten years and nothing has changed. In fact I think it has got worse in some respects.

Don't even both with that bullshit. You're not in possession of all the facts as events haven't even started to play themselves out yet. So while your point of view might be a logical assumption (after all, I did raise the same concerns), it's still far too early to make an informed prediction. Thus you are jumping to conclusions.

The difference between you and the others is that everyone else at least had the maturity to say their conclusion was speculative; however you seem to think that anything you dream up is an absolute fact - even if your statement is years off actually happening.

Of course it is speculation ... it is an internet message board.

And this is why there's so many f--king arguments on sites like these. People are unwilling to ever make a reasonable argument. It's always one extreme point of view, or the complete polar opposite. And then those instigators get all pissy when people don't agree with their absurd extremism.

There so many arguments because unless you love linux the linux hoard will descend upon you.

So can I. I'm a huge Linux critic. I'm also a huge Linux fan. I can do this thing called "seeing things from all perspectives and not seeing things as one extreme or another"

And I resent the implication that I'm a fanboy given I was the one who kicked off the complaints about Linux in this topic.

Boo-hoo.

Linus isn't really too bad in my opinion. I think he's more pragmatic than some. It's RMS who I wish would just shut the hell up (don't get me wrong, I admire his vision. But I don't think his constant outbursts are at all helpful these days).

RMS is a waste of space, but telling nvidia to fuck themselves and being generally rude to companies that work with him isn't helpful either. He only gets away with it because he can.

Linus doesn't lead by example, other software projects tend to take his attitude and it is hurtful.

[/q] It was a question, not a statement. You can tell because it's postfixed with a question mark rather than a period/full stop. [/q]

No it wasn't really a question by the way you asked it. Don't pull that bullshit with me.