Conversation with Hyo Jin Nim Part I

Angelika Selle and Susan Fegley OsmondAugust 26, 1984East
Garden

From my adolescence I have wanted to be a leader, so for me the
workshop for blessed children was special. All my life -- at school
or with my friends -- I tried to discover what I believed to be true,
and to be a guide for others. Many of the people that I knew
misunderstood my point of view. Many came from unfortunate
backgrounds and were misguided as they grew up. I tried to understand
their situations and help them to become better people.

I have never wanted to be beaten or put down by anyone. I stand up
to people and fight for what I believe is true, or against what I
feel is wrong -- I even physically fight. I was like this from my
childhood. So I had many, many problems. I want to tell you honestly
where I am coming from.

When I first came to America I was 10. At that time it didn't even
occur to me that any prejudice existed in the world. All I had seen
of America were picture postcards, of beautiful scenery and smiling
people. But when I came here it was a totally different story.

Persecution at School

I met with prejudice as soon as I started school. First, I was a
yellow person, an Oriental. Secondly, I was Father's son. People
seemed to feel superior, maybe because America is a great nation.
Anyway, because I am Father's son, I started to get a lot of
persecution, in ways that were incredible! They joked about
brain-aching, made fun of me, and called my father names. I wouldn't
have cared if they had only called me names.

Father told me, "You have to hold it in. You have to forgive
them. You have to understand them. They are just little kids. Their
vision is so shallow. They cannot see into the future; they only see
and act according to what they see and feel at the moment. You have
to understand that."

So I tried and tried, but they didn't stop. I tried to talk to
them, to reason with them. I tried to talk to them in ways they could
understand, but it didn't work. It all kept on getting worst.

Kids like to follow bullies, follow a leader. When one kid started
doing it, it became like a fad -- everybody followed. They put me
down just to be somebody. They would snicker at each other, "Hey
look at him," and then they would make a joke about me and slap
each other, giggling. I really did not like that. But because Father
had told me to, I tried to hold it in.

But everything has a limit, I guess. That kind of anger reached a
limit in me. I couldn't hold it in any more. How could I? I wasn't
weak. I was strong. I could beat those guys up physically. And that
seemed to be the only language they understood.

I knew I had to be quiet and forgiving, to overcome myself for 10
or 12 years, coping with this every day! The kids at my school made
fun of me and criticized me for nothing, for no reason. Just to get
up in the morning and go to school was living hell!

One day I said to myself, "I can't take this anymore, or
there will be no end. Even for their sake, I have to do something.
Tell them strongly, in a language they can understand, that they are
not right. They are wrong." The bully of the school was a big
Italian kid. He was the boss and all those kids hung around with him.
They followed him and acted just like him. The next day he came up to
me and said the same thing he always said: "How many people did
your father brainwash today?" I said, "Well, I don't know.
I haven't seen one get brainwashed."

"Yeah? I hear you saying this all the time," he said,
and he started to call me names, those four letter words. I said to
him; "Don't do that. I try to be nice to you. I try to
understand you. I try to digest what you are saying, but I can't take
that anymore. For your sake, not for mine. If what I do now was for
my sake, I would have beaten you up a long time ago. The first day
you talked like that, I would have beaten you up. But for your sake,
I thought and thought, and I think the only language you will learn
by is this." So I punched him and we fought.

And it stopped. The persecution stopped. At least the kids didn't
say anything in front of me. They were all afraid to come at me,
because I beat up their bully, their leader. He thought he was
almighty, but I humbled him.

I told Father that I punched the bully. And you know, he just
looked at me and smiled. He wasn't angry, because sometimes that's
the way of male society. Everybody has pride. Men are strong and have
that pride as a male figure, as a strong domineering subject.

What Is "Cool"

Many kids have a certain idea of what is fun and exciting, or what
is "cool." Going out and breaking the law, breaking the
school law, going against the principal. The teacher tells you to do
this and you avoid it. In the school system there are rules that some
kids break just to prove something to each other. Many young people
think that by being unusual, being something different, being
something else than normal, that's being cool!

After I beat up that bully, some kids started to follow me. My
thought at that time was, "I have to lead them somehow."
Maybe it's because I was naive, but I said to myself that if I want
to lead them, I have to be a part of them, or else they'll avoid me.

That life taught me so many things about people. We have to
embrace not only people at the highest intellectual level, but people
who are down and out -- they're God's children, too. Some way has to
be found to restore them, to embrace them. That means I have to know
about their thoughts and their life, their environment, how they
think. How else can we bring them back?

I really became a leader of those kids by being the toughest kid
in school. But then everybody started depending on me in a physical
way. Sometimes kids got beaten up by some bully or some gang from
another school, and they relied on me.

I got kicked out of school and I went to stay at Col. Bo Hi Pak's
house in Washington, D.C. Virginia schools are socially pretty tight.
They separate kids into categories of people: fleabags, wombats,
greasers, jocks, and nerds. I didn't want to be a part of any of
them. I was just being Hyo Jin Moon, Oriental, 15 years old and doing
martial arts -- that's it. I didn't really categorize myself. I had
many, many friends, all different kinds of people.

In order for any individual to cut from their past, he or she
shouldn't reminisce about the good times. Candy is bad for your
health, it's bad for the teeth, but it has a moment of sweetness --
that's why people go for it. Criminal life also has a sweet moment,
and indulging in fallen nature has a sweet moment. Those kinds of
experiences stay in the mind and can't be totally erased.

Powerful music itself is not bad. Think about how boring it would
be if the world were only made of flowers. No trees, mountains,
cliffs, or waterfalls -- just flowers. How boring! I wouldn't want to
live in such a place for more than a week. All these things combine
together -- high-rising cliffs, gigantic waterfalls, great standing
trees which show such patience, standing there for hundreds of years.
How beautiful. Look at the great plains -- how vast you can be, if
you wanted to be. You have dominion over all God's creation.
Mountains that stand with stubborn patience -- all these things
combined together bring unity and harmony into life. The same is true
with everything else, music too. Beautiful music, strong music,
eye-opening music, amusing music, very soothing music, very fun music
-- all are needed. But the concept behind it now is wrong.

Kids are wild; they want to be wild. What is wildness? When I see
someone who is wild and strong for righteousness, that's good, but as
long as it's for God. That's what I am trying to do right now. That's
why I am staying on this course. I have a mind of my own. I don't
just follow because Father is my father. No! Because it is true, I
follow. If something is true, I follow it. I am that kind of person.
If it wasn't true, if I didn't believe it was right, I'd say forget
it. People in the world think that being wild is having a midnight
brawl or weekend parties. That's wild in their mind. They use the
power of modern technology to get these thoughts planted in young
people's minds.

Look what's happened to American society. Look at the old hippies.
Their thought were good: love, peace and flowers. But what is love,
peace and flower? What is beauty? Having an orgy, that's not beauty;
getting high all the time, there's no beauty there. That's like an
animal; it's just stupid. I don't see that as beautiful.

The hippies had good thoughts, but they didn't fulfill them. They
stirred that whole generation. "We won't fight! We won't stand
for wars! We want peace!" That's good. Who would deny that? Who
in the world wants war? Nobody. But those people who yelled it out,
those "voices of freedom," were confused. Their beliefs
might have been good, but the way they carried it out was wrong. They
gave a whole new meaning to hell.

All this focus on physical attraction -- it's like Satan working
behind disguises. If I grew a mustache, got an eye operation to make
my eyes appear Western, bleached my hair, and raised my nose, I could
pass as an Anglo-Saxon. But my true nature is that I am Korean. Satan
uses masks to disturb and deteriorate people's minds. When people
reminisce about those times [before beginning to live a religious
life] when they thought that they were "cool," they may
think it was fine, that they were having a good time. But that's
wrong.

I mean, we are here to change all that. You really have to have
pride in yourself. Pride for God -- not for yourself, but pride for
God. You have to believe in yourself. If you don't very strongly cut
off that tendency to worry about whether you're "cool," and
just push it away, you'll always suffer.

Love For Heung Jin Him

I loved Heung Jin very much. I would have given anything to him.
When I got my first car, a sports car, I would wash it every day and
make it shine all the time. But I was going back and forth to Korea
to study, and when I went to Korea, Heung Jin drove my car. I never
told him he could, but he drove it and he wrecked it. When I came
back he said, "Hey Hyo, I'm sorry, I crushed the car." He
joked like that. I said, "Well, did you get hurt? It's okay,
it's only a car. I love you more than my car. You cannot compare
yourself to my car. I can fix it, that's okay." We had that kind
of relationship.

"What's yours is mine and what's mine is yours" -- we
had that kind of relationship. I would go to his room and wear his
clothes. He would come to my room and use my stereo when I was gone.

We shared so much. We shared a room together since we were very
young. For 10 years we shared a room. We had a lot of quarrels, too,
but we really loved each other. It's very hard to relate to God
sometimes, because we can't see Him. He is not there when you want
Him to be, you cannot touch Him when you want to. You cannot embrace
Him anytime you want to. He is not there, but Heung Jin, he was.

What I want to suggest to Unification Church members is, find
somebody you can embrace like that, someone you can love like that
inside this movement. That will give you strength to go on. That's
why Heung Jin in spirit world is telling you that you have to unite
with True Parents and their family. What is unity? How does unity
come about? How are you able to want to die for someone or something
you believe in?

You have to raise yourself to the level of wanting to die for
someone or else you will suffer all the time. Every day you will
suffer. I cannot relate to God so easily. But I love my brother very
much, and that love gives me strength. When I have a hard time
controlling myself, I say to myself, "Hey, stop it, you love
your brother." I tell myself, "You love your brother. Stop
it. Turn. Walk away. You love your father. Walk away."

[Hyo Jin Nim was very moved and had
tears in his eyes.]

That's the way I feel. And I want to tell you, my brothers and
sisters, that we really have to unite.

Finding Good in Others

What is unity? If you are a state leader or whatever, if you have
people following you, you have to love them like your sons and
daughters. Don't just try to get work done. There's more to it than
that. You really have to understand, love and care for the members.
How can you do that? Not by rejecting or criticizing the ways they
are different from you or don't meet your expectations, but by trying
to find something attractive in them, something of goodness.

In this world of hate, you see hate all over. But it takes a
greater person to find the beauty, to find the greatness in one's
self and in others. Anybody can judge a person. But trying to find
beauty in one's self or in someone else, even when you are at your
lowest, that takes a real heart. That's what you have to do. When you
are taking charge of a church mission, you have to have that kind of
attitude, that depth of feeling, or else it would be just like
anything else out there in the world. There wouldn't be any
difference. That's what Father is teaching. I feel this is the right
way because I used to always find something wrong in people.

I know many church members suffer, but when you suffer for other
people, when you give out all your energy for others, it's never
wrong. You might not gain from it at this moment, but you are carving
a path, a big room for generations to come, for them to see, for them
to follow, for them to learn from that experience of suffering. By
doing that, you yourself become hero in a way, a hero for generations
to come.

Now, let's say some young kids who believe in something try to
fight for it, but they don't have the right concept. The Guardian
Angels have a good idea. But first they have to face the fundamental
cause of crime. How can we overcome it? How can we fight it? How can
we really make the world better?

Let's say you have arthritis in your hand. You can find fast
relief through painkillers, but it'll always come back. But what if
you want to get rid of it? You know that all the parts of your body
are connected to your spinal column. And if something goes wrong with
one disc, that whole part of your body goes wrong. All the bones
dislocate themselves and calcium is deposited into that place to help
you hold your posture. But some places get more pressure than others,
because it is wrongly set. That's why you get arthritis pain in
joints. If you want to fix it for good, you have to find the
fundamental cause of the pain. You have to fix it or else you will
always have to rely on painkillers. And you cannot go on forever like
that.

You have to work on the fundamental causes of problems. All those
politicians, they come on with a promise of fast relief. They do not
see into the future. They cannot see 10, 20 years from now. That's
what people are doing. That is wrong. That's why Father is speaking
strongly at this moment.

Believing in a Greater Being

I realized all this when I was very young. At school, they explain
all facts through the theory of evolution. I am God's man. I believe
in God. God is my man. I don't want to worship a monkey, I don't want
to even hear that an amoeba or a monkey was my ancestor. Do I have to
go to the zoo, to a monkey's cage, to worship my ancestors?

At this moment, that is the most reasonable theory. That's why
people believe it. But if I want to believe in theories, I'd rather
believe in a being greater than myself, a greater being, as my
Father.

Sure, that was a million years ago. Before Adam and Eve, there
could have been human beings. But God said to Adam: Okay, you are My
child. From that moment on, they were blessed. I like to think like
that. I will find out about all of those mysteries when I die. There
are many mysteries that I ask myself about all the time. When I die,
I'll find out. I'd rather die believing in God than not believing in
Him. Maybe I am very unbalanced, but I like to believe that my man,
my Father, is up there. Scientists discover facts about life and then
develop their own theories to explain them. But they just observed
things that already existed, they didn't create them. But where did
all this come from; how and why?

I am Father's son. I have my position to uphold. I have to have
credentials. For the sake of the people out in the world, I have to
be prepared in every way, because people out there judge people by
their title. I hate that, but I have to do it because I have to
embrace those kinds of people, too. That's why, right now, blessed
children have to study. I really dislike school. Many teacher' minds
are so narrow, so blocked. I go because Father wants me to.

I used to love sports. I used to go to the gym and do martial
arts. I was an instructor. I used to exercise. I used to box for
hours. You know, box and kick and kick and throw and jump up and
down, for hours. I used to love it! I used to love to run around. I
was always out trying to train myself. I was too much of an outgoing
person. But now I have to sit down in one place. That's what I am
doing right now. This, for me, is suffering. I'd rather go out there
and do something, you know. I believe in God and I want to do
something about it.

I have a mission to follow, I have a mission to carry on. I say to
myself, "Okay, this is preparation stage! I'm preparing myself
for my mission." I always think to myself, "This is war! My
pencil is my weapon! My enemy is over-anxiousness. I have to overcome
it." 1 can overcome the physical pain, but I have to overcome
the mental pain. Right now, I put that as a task for myself. I have
to have a goal. You can always find yourself a goal, if you really
look hard enough.

People in our church who were chosen by Father to get a Ph.D.
shouldn't feel special because of it. They should feel more burdened.
Because they have potential, that means they have to use their
potential. That means more hardship. In a way I feel sorry for them.
They shouldn't brag about it. They are the ones who have to suffer
more.

1 think many people assume that Father's children are in a very
glorious place. But it is the place of the most suffering, because
you have to bear all the suffering of the people. I have to lead all
the members from now on. You know about being a leader, how hard it
is to persuade, to make other people follow. You cannot do that by
force. You have to constantly think all the time. The mental burden
is greater than any burden.

I try not to miss even the little things. I look at an ant and
wonder why he runs all the time. How can he move like that all the
time? For what reason does he do that? What does he get out of it?
And how much joy does he have? I sit there and I want to be like a
rock. People look at a cliff and think it's just a cliff. But it has
been standing there for thousands of years, always patient. That's
the pride of the cliff. A tree gives its shade to a hot, sweaty
person, giving him relief. It changes its colors four times a year,
wearing different clothes. The cliffs don't change, not so much. They
change only after thousands of years, but a tree can pride itself on
being able to change often. It can make a place for mushrooms and the
creatures that cannot grow out in the sunlight. There's lots of
beauty there, right? You can always find beauty in yourself like
that. It's how you see it. It's like a pair of dice. When you hold up
a die you might see one dot, but I, looking from another angle, might
see six dots. It has six sides on it. All six sides have different
dots on it, but there's only one die. There can be two sides to a
question, but only one answer is right. When there's two sides, one
is wrong. If one is right, that means one is wrong, doesn't it?

Unite In Brotherhood

I really feel that it's our church members' responsibility to
bring interracial unity. I was shocked when I heard a complaint from
a brother that he suffers a lot of racial prejudice in our church. He
never experienced that kind of prejudice before. I don't know who is
in the worse prison -- the one receiving the prejudice or the one
giving it out. The one who is prejudiced against another must be a
great distance from God. I was shocked to hear it. I mean, in my
church? I had heard reports that everybody loves each other here. I
realize people suffer for man individual reasons, but prejudice? I
never thought members suffered prejudice. That was a shock to me.

I love black people. One of my favorite friends is Reggie. You
know Reggie? He's very emotional, you know. Black people stand up for
what they believe. You know in the rallies you see the black
ministers who have a deep feeling and just shout them out. Black
people suffered a lot, they paid their dues. Through their blood,
sweat and tears this nation could stand. They have a lot of love.
White people and black people really have to cling together. We
really have to show the rest of this world a true standard. That
means we ourselves have to be one. When you're a bank robber, when
you're a criminal, how can you say to your child, "Don't commit
a crime?" How can you do that? If you have an honest conscience,
can you truly say that to your child? Can you say "unite in
brotherhood" to people who are walking around in the streets
suffering or lost? Our church members have to really know this, they
really have to understand this. We have to live our ideals. That's
what Father wants. That's the only way we can go.

Some people pride themselves in trying to act very distinguished.
They don't see any further than themselves. A person who goes beyond
his limit -- that's a good person. God needs that kind of person. God
needs the kind of person who'll cry out for His sake. Not the kind of
person who knows God exists but has to think about it in his own
terms. I think that's wrong, that's no good.

I have hope for our church. I have hope for our members. Because
those people who grew up with me -- Reggie, Joe, John, Hiroshi, all
different kinds of people, all different personalities -- those
people can sit in the same place and love each other.

When we play in our band together, we love each other. All of us
who were in the band love each other. I feel I can say to them: You
can come to me anytime, but God comes first, Father comes first and
our missions come first. In order to make our children happy for
eternity we have to suffer for that moment of triumph, for the moment
of victory. Don't shed your tears -- not for you, not for me. Bite
your tongue, just go on, don't look back. Don't ever look back. What
we want to reach is ahead of us, not behind us. We are here to fight.
You and I know that very well. We are warriors, only going forward,
never backward. We might stop but don't ever take a step back.