74 Comments

Jan. 15, 2018
07:14 am JST

If Neeson wants to excuse sexual harassment and assault - such as digital rape - away as being "silly...childhood things", then he's better off getting more cosmetic surgery and having his mouth stitched shut.

Jan. 15, 2018
07:31 am JST

Neeson's entire career these days is built around giving fantasy material to a generation of past-their-prime men with insecurities about how later generations are leaving them behind. It's not too surprising that he would defend the misogynistic behavior of their generation as "childhood stuff". To be spared from critical self-examination is the greatest fantasy of them all, and for Neeson to peddle it with the issue of sexual assault will almost guarantee some number of ticket sales for whatever his next "old man fights bad guys to protect the women who are his property" movie is.

Jan. 15, 2018
07:32 am JST

Burning BushToday 07:25 am JST

Any romantic proposal or interaction could potential be a #metoo moment.

Only if your proposal or interaction involves sexual harassment or sexual assault. Most guys nowadays know how to express their affection without violating someone. We should all pity the men who are so debased that they don't understand how to do this.

Jan. 15, 2018
09:01 am JST

If Neeson wants to excuse sexual harassment and assault - such as digital rape - away as being "silly...childhood things", then he's better off getting more cosmetic surgery and having his mouth stitched shut.

What on earth is "digital rape". Is that a "thing" now? Some guy has a digital penis protruding through your computer monitor over the internetz? Nonsensical. I have never seen a time where the goal posts of what is and isn't offensive to women shifts on a near daily basis. I blame post-modernism, militant feminism and the age of hyper media for spreading this nonsense. Far too many people taking up outrage as a hobby., rather than just getting on with their real life and realizing that the majority of men and women are perfectly reasonable people, neither saint nor sinner.

Jan. 15, 2018
09:22 am JST

he’s worried about what HE’s done.

whether he has done anything or not, only a matter of time before somebody comes out with a story about a cold winters evening in 1987 in which Neeson touched a woman's knee, or, heaven forbid, offered her a coat to keep her warm. The outraged mob will hunt him down, conclude he is guilty until proven innoc....no just guilty!!! and that's the end of his career.

If this nonsense filters down to the average jill and joe, bring on the asteroid strike.

Jan. 15, 2018
09:54 am JST

“Several women have publicly accused Hoffman of sexual misconduct, including two who said he assaulted them while filming 1987 movie "Ishtar" by inserting his fingers inside them.”

Ahhh so they are saying a guy used his fingers, aka digits, to assault a women. Why use the term "digital rape" ? Kind of misleading given how the word "digital" is commonly used in today's language. If he actually committed that act then he needs to go through due process.

Jan. 15, 2018
09:58 am JST

Jan. 15, 2018
10:24 am JST

This is a difficult one. People like Weinstein and Cosby have abused their position and taken advantage of many woman. That's terrible. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. I think what Liam Neeson is talking about is times when you might compliment your female colleague's hairstyle for example. Depending on how she thinks about you, they might say thank you and carry on with their life or it might be considered harassment. Apparently, technically, it is harassment according to a human resources expert I was talking to recently.

Jan. 15, 2018
10:36 am JST

You may not of heard of digital rape but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Stop sniggering at and demeaning rape.

It appears to be a not so clever term for sexual assault. I thought you were referring to something online, which was confusing to be associated with the term rape.

Like many social movements, both the bad and good people get swept up in it. Stopping sexual harassment (and more so sexual assault) is needed, but we shouldn't go so far as to vilify every unwanted flirt or pass. There isn't anything wrong with flirting. Like everything, there needs to be respect for each other.

One example I have been thinking about is the whole Franco news. Sure, young women are likely throwing themselves at him, and there is nothing wrong with that unless they are underage and he isn't cautious about who these women are and what he is doing. Or, a consensual relationship where the situation wasn't wanted (or expressed as unwanted at the time) in hindsight, but nothing appeared to have been said during the situation. I am sure his partner was jealous of those women, but so what. She had a choice to stay in the relationship or go and she stayed. So, we should blame him for being a creep in this circumstance? Not really. What about rock starts who regularly pull attractive women from the audience to "meet" after the show. ZZ Top was known for that, and I saw them pulling women out of the audience during one concert. I don't blame ZZ Top or the women for anything. i have no reason to believe that anything between ZZ Top and these women were non-consensual. Sure, they and their music is a bit misogynistic, but it was accepted, by men and women.

However, some of the things mentioned about Franco's acting school went too far, staging an orgy scene probably for his personal gratification and other unseemly and possibly criminal things. Most of the acts were just being a creep (one about removing protective gear seemed to amount to assault), and there appears to be an element of power/sex harassment, which shouldn't be allowed in a workplace.

Jan. 15, 2018
10:45 am JST

This is why we have the statute of limitations, to protect from claims that cannot be substantiated, let alone proven. The law is perfectly capable of dealing with these charges and letting a jury decide the evidence. Any intelligent man being confronted with accusations over the internet mob should ignore them and wait for a proper civil or criminal complaint.

Jan. 15, 2018
11:23 am JST

This is why we have the statute of limitations, to protect from claims that cannot be substantiated, let alone proven. The law is perfectly capable of dealing with these charges and letting a jury decide the evidence. Any intelligent man being confronted with accusations over the internet mob should ignore them and wait for a proper civil or criminal complaint.

The problem is the damage has already been done in a professional sense, whether the complaint is proven or not, at least if you are a high profile man. How many times have we seen recently that men have lost their jobs before the case has even reached point A of the legal process. Its shoot first, ask questions later. That's deeply problematic for a democracy. We created a legal process to stamp out the lynch mob.

This is a good video from a woman with her own perspective on #metoo etc.

Jan. 15, 2018
11:39 am JST

Jan. 15, 2018
12:14 pm JST

Reading JT's #metoo threads always feels like traveling back in time (actually am not even sure there's been an era when men & women couldn't -apparently- communicate to the same extent as modern man).

"There's some people, famous people, being suddenly accused of touching some girl's knee or something and suddenly they're being dropped from their program or something."

I think what Liam Neeson is talking about is times when you might compliment your female colleague's hairstyle for example. Depending on how she thinks about you, they might say thank you and carry on with their life or it might be considered harassment

Again I find this comment completely surreal. There's a, imo 'not-so', subtle difference between a "oh I like your new hairstyle" comment to a female colleague you KNOW pretty well and a "wow, you look sexy/hot today! I like it, haha!" to a colleague you do NOT know that well. If, as you said, you're not sure 'what she thinks about you' then say the former or even better, nothing. Seriously, I think many of you guys are over-complicating things/ freaking out over nothing.

Same with the 'digital rape' thing. I sort of get that younger generations (am talking 20yo or under) may find 'digital' slightly confusing but everyone over 20-25 should know what digital rape means.

Jan. 15, 2018
12:51 pm JST

Giving Russia as an example of good male-female relations, where a slap can keep harassment and violence against women at bay? Are you stupid?

Slap a man, he'll not only slap you back, he'll punch, kick, break bones, and could kill you. A simple bit of research shows how violence against women is not only going unpunished, but actually being allowed. one year ago saw the first decriminalisation by Putin of domestic violence. Violence against women is rampant, and ends in tens of thousands of deaths annually.

Jan. 15, 2018
02:01 pm JST

@Agent X - have you seen the information about domestic violence in Russia? It is mostly (but not always) perpetrated by men against women. Don't get so emotional about the simple relaying of general statistics.

Jan. 15, 2018
02:04 pm JST

@Burning Bush: no, not a psycho. A regular person. Normal, regular people are abusive, harass and attack and rape. The idea that only the mentally ill are capable of violence is a dangerous, ableist lie.

Jan. 15, 2018
02:34 pm JST

@Agent X - have you seen the information about domestic violence in Russia?

Apologies! I had to re-read your post as it seemed you were labeling men, in general, as someone who will kill you if you slap them. I can't talk specifically about Russian DV, but it still sounds like a rather blanket statement that you make there.

I find Russian women to be quite assertive anyway, so in an innocent encounter (which flirtation usually is), I think they can manage themselves quite well without violence from either side coming into it, generally speaking.

Jan. 15, 2018
03:00 pm JST

According to feminist, if you're a male you're automatically a rapist and sexual harasser.

As a feminist I can tell you firsthand I don't view men that way. I view the average man as someone who is probably very unaware of the issues many women face, others are abusers and enablers and others as great guys doing what they can to make the world a better place for all . Which category you fit in is up to you though but shall we play a game and you guess where you fit for me so far based on this sentence alone?

"I think Dustin Hoffman was... I'm not saying I've done similar things like what he did -- apparently he touched a girl's breast and stuff -- but it's childhood stuff."

Would he view it as "childhood" stuff if it was his daughter's boss pawing at her? Somehow I doubt it. And if that was his childhood, perhaps his community needs to teach the boys to keep their hands to themselves and not grab little girls.

Jan. 15, 2018
03:38 pm JST

Jan. 15, 2018
03:53 pm JST

@tmarie, regarding Dustin Hoffman, the stuff I read that he is accused of is pretty extreme harassment such as inserting his finger inside a woman when they are working on air in a private room. That line is far beyond anywhere that could be forgiven as childhood stuff. In my long experience in Japan the most I have ever seen was when men get drunk and make harassing statements or questions to usually a young woman about her sex life or marital status. Drunk Japanese salarywomen also tend to get frisky and grope, including grabbing the weiner and balls. There is also a lot of male on male harassment such as asking about sex life, making comments about the size or hardness of the foreigners junk.

Jan. 15, 2018
06:10 pm JST

Jan. 15, 2018
06:44 pm JST

Black SabbathToday 03:08 pm JST

bit this I do know:

Americans are uptight about sex. So I'm pretty skeptical about how this will likely play out.

The demographic of Americans that are uptight about sex are these days pretty near to the polar opposite of the demographic that is fighting sexual harassment and assault in society. Just look at Alabama's recent election.

Jan. 15, 2018
07:47 pm JST

People have mocked the use of the expression 'digital rape', and act irritated that they were ignorant of this term. Of course most people who have experienced sexual assault, or who actually stay informed of sexual violence and crime, have heard if it. There is no other way to explain the forced, non-consensual penetration of another person using the hands, than that. That is the expression used. If you have never heard it before, you were ignorant. Now you are not.

People have expressed concern about the language I have used to describe the appalling situation in Russia (a situation repeated in many countries), but have no opinion about the decriminalisation of domestic violence. Your priorities are wrong.

You are presumably intelligent enough to understand that when a rainy day makes me glum, I am not suggesting every day is rainy?

What you and others tend to do in this situation is derail the subject - either deliberately or out of unthinking ignorance - from the problem of sexual assault, to the cry of NOTALLMEN!

Insisting that people who are talking about sexual assault toe the line to your choice of vocabulary, rather than understanding what they mean, listening to to what they are saying and learning from it, is offensive. It suggests you don't consider the victims of sexual assault, harassment (and domestic violence) important enough to listen to.

Further derailing the topic of sexual assault, by comparing it to flirting, is also ignorant. If someone shows no interest in you, you stop, you back off . That is obvious, no?

If you express interest in someone and they do not return that interest, you stop. If you use your position of authority or physical presence to insist, you are harassing. If you touch someone without their permission, if you continue to do so when they are clearly uncomfortable, you are assaulting.

People are complaining that the careers of famous men who have been accused of sexual assault will be damaged regardless of the truth. Not so. Look at any list of names of people - usually men - in sport, movies, music, TV - whose careers are strong and secure despite proven sexual violence. Men's careers are not harmed by being rapists, or being violent against their partners. Let's face it, when a man rapes his date, or kills his partner, he gets sympathy and attempts at understanding - What did s/he do to drive him to it? they say. He must have cracked under the strain, they say. But she'd been drinking, they say. In fact, his future is used in his defence. Take Brock Turner: All that punishment for a few minutes of action. No fair!

It turns my stomach. What about the victims' futures?

As for withdrawing a man accused of violence or harassment from the workplace during the investigation? Well, that makes a change from the norm. It is the exception when this happens, not the rule.

Generally speaking, when a woman has accused a man of assaulting her, she is forced to work / study / live alongside him while the investigation is ongoing, unless she removes herself from the location. Campus rape - case in point.

If someone is accused of harassment or violence, shouldn't they be kept away from those they may have harmed? If not, and they are left where they are, then across the board - in schools, hospitals, care facilities, offices - the alleged attacker's comfort takes precedence over the health and safety of the accuser, aka victim of harassment or violence.

Jan. 15, 2018
08:09 pm JST

Sure, but for that to happen, two people have to first meet and play the courtship game.

Erm, no... that's not what consent means. For consent to happen, all that is required is for two people to say, "Yes, I want to have sex with you."

I challenge you to give us even one method, phrase or approach an interested guy could use on a female coworker he likes without it possibly being brought to HR as a harassment complaint.

A- It is quite creepy that you interpret every discussion about sex in the context of the workplace. In your Russia are people unable to meet anywhere else? Do you have no coffee shops, bars, gyms, or parks?

B- If you want one "method" you can use "on" someone, you don't understand this whole "sex" thing.

C- Assuming you don't have power over your coworker in the company hierarchy, "You wanna get coffee?" is generally fine, at least outside of Russia. I don't know what things are like over there, other than that it seems a lot of women are trying very hard to get out.

Jan. 15, 2018
08:21 pm JST

Maria, I don't think any poster on this board disagrees with you that physical assault is a serious crime.

Nobody is advocating or even belittling that at all. We can be sure that we all agree on that.

The issue is the grey zone of honest, legitimate courtship (if it even exists anymore).

Even simple comments like "let's go for coffee" qualify as harassment, which basically means that men and women can't even act normally with each other at work without worrying about one turning on the other and reporting them to HR to have their heads chopped off.

Jan. 15, 2018
08:31 pm JST

You are presumably intelligent enough to understand that when a rainy day makes me glum, I am not suggesting every day is rainy?

So do you think that when someone says 'black people are thieves', they are not suggesting all black people are thieves? Because when I hear someone say 'black people are thieves', I think 'what a racist #$%&'.

That's why when I see a statement like this:

Slap a man, he'll not only slap you back, he'll punch, kick, break bones, and could kill you.

It irks, because I won't do any of those things to a woman (or a man for that matter).

If you don't want your message to be detracted from by men claiming 'not all men', then you should stop using phrases that include all men. You cannot blame us for pointing out how your words are wrong, when you are the one choosing the wrong words.

If you had said the following:

If you slap a man, some men will not only slap you back, they'll punch, kick, break bones, and could kill you.

Then we could focus on the fact that some guys will do that, and how to stop it. Instead we're defending ourselves from being told that we will slap you, punch you, kick you, break your bones, and even could kill you.

Don't create a different problem in your attempts to solve the current one. That does no one any good.

Jan. 15, 2018
08:33 pm JST

Jan. 15, 2018
08:45 pm JST

Insisting that people who are talking about sexual assault toe the line to your choice of vocabulary, rather than understanding what they mean... is offensive.

Listen to what I mean, not what I say. It doesn't work that way. We are communicating through text - the words we write are all the other person has with which to understand the thoughts we are trying to convey. Therefore it is our responsibility to write the words that properly express what we want to say. It is unreasonable for the other person to know what you are thinking, due to having literally nothing beyond those words with which to have any idea.

If people read what you write, and come out of that with a misunderstanding of what you were trying to say, then you need to write what you are trying to say in a manner that does not cause misunderstanding.

Jan. 15, 2018
08:50 pm JST

Jan. 15, 2018
09:04 pm JST

Even simple comments like "let's go for coffee" qualify as harassment, which basically means that men and women can't even act normally with each other at work without worrying about one turning on the other and reporting them to HR to have their heads chopped off.

Simply untrue in most organisations. The only reason such an innocuous question would qualify as harassment is if the bloke has a/ already asked & been rejected by the same person, b/approached (successfully or not) 10-15 other women in the office and is a well known sleazebag.

Other situations where this could/would be 'weird': if you've NEVER spoken to a colleague and suddenly asks her out/compliments her or do this on her very first day. Again it's all about discernment and sensitivity. There's a time and place for everything.

Jan. 16, 2018
12:29 am JST

I worked for 5 years in a company, same coworkers for all those 5 years, once a month we had happy hour time at a local pub, a female coworker was regularly slapping guys' butt one day 1 of the guy wished her happy birthday and gave her a regular friendly hug and the week after he was called to my superior's office sexual misconduct... a very big surprised we got when we heard that, so he told our superior about her behavior with slapping butts' coworkers regularly and our superior (a female)asked other coworkers about this and heard that she was also doing that to other coworkers so when she got called to my superior offices and refute the allegations, but a couple of months later she resigned because nobody was talking to her anymore... Nobody talked about it when she was doing it it was like a friendly thing we didn't care about until that moment she accused someone of sexual misconduct. Anyway to accuse someone of such behavior people should be very careful.

Jan. 16, 2018
07:28 am JST

Really, I implore you to check the wording of any major company's harassment policy. The criteria is merely that a person was made to feel uncomfortable at work.

CITATION NEEDED

Mr. NoidallToday 05:06 am JST

You'd have to have investigated every single reported case of harassment to be that Assertion.

And if you could provide even a single case where it did happen, you would prove him wrong. It's very telling that this isn't happening.

In a proper discussion, the onus is on whoever makes the first controversial claim to back it up with evidence. Burning Bush consistently comes into these threads spouting controversial claims, and then scurries away when called on to provide evidence. The mods delete any comment discussing why he chooses to use every news story about women or sexual harassment to spout his lies about how women are out to get men with false sexual harassment allegations, so unfortunately we'll just have to leave that to individual speculation. But it's an obvious pattern.

Jan. 16, 2018
08:00 am JST

Well, consider me corrected about how to talk about Russian men who assault women. I'll know to address each killer's situation personally, and not generalise about the men who murder 12-14,000 women annually in Russia - even though someone here has already told us - anecdotally - how women in Russia can apparently bat away an unwelcome man with a mere slap, so what's up with those statistics?

As for the women who have been harassed, assaulted, attacked, killed, it appears to be ok to talk about them in general featureless terms.

It is interesting how nobody, while so insistent on accurate phrasing, thought to fact check my posts about Russia, in which I oversimplified the information about the decriminalization of violence against women by the partners - relevant because of the implicit claim that unwelcome sexual advances, harassment, assault, etc., are not a problem in Russia.

I am also sure you all police your own and your friends', colleagues' and acquaintances' language on all subjects equally strictly, rather than listen to the content. Right? Goodgood.

Jan. 16, 2018
10:04 am JST

An Australian actor is in big trouble from what he did on set in the Rocky Horror Show. And James Franco is in trouble partly for what happened with a cellophane genital cover during an oral sex scene of all things on the set of some otherwise forgettable comedy.

Reading much of the small print in the allegation stories presents some bizarre, abnormal backgrounds to some of the allegations.

There are two lessons to come out of all of this:

sex really is troublesome; and

any male who puts their hand up for nomination to run for US president should be rejected immediately for their obvious lack of common sense.

Jan. 16, 2018
11:10 am JST

Liam Neeson questions whether Hoffman has done anything wrong, based on what evidence to the contrary? That "...touch[ing] a girl's breast and stuff is...childhood stuff". What does that even mean, and why does he feel entitled to question the accusations? He isn't even saying Hoffman didn't do anything; he's saying the things Hoffman did - and he isn't even sure what these things are "...or something"; "...and stuff" - are not worth mentioning. If he doesn't know, he shouldn't speculate.

Jan. 16, 2018
07:23 pm JST

Your claim, however, that women are just aching to make false sexual harassment allegations and that companies generally have policies against coworkers having coffee together,

I never claimed that companies have policies against coworkers having coffee together (although NBC's new policy basically goes that far)

I'm saying that 95% of women are sensible and would happily enjoy coffee with a coworker. However there's that 5% (metoo crowd) that will take that coffee invitation and complain to HR about it. Once they do, even though the HR staff will personally feel it's frivolous the lawyers will force them to take action and HR will have no choice but to accept the woman's harassment complaint because she stated that she felt uncomfortable and that in and of itself constitutes harassment.

Men, out of shear fear of the 5% metoo type woman, will have no choice but to disengage from women in the workplace all together.

Jan. 16, 2018
07:30 pm JST

However there's that 5% (metoo crowd) that will take that coffee invitation and complain to HR about it.

And yet, it's never actually happened.

Once they do, even though the HR staff will personally feel it's frivolous the lawyers will force them to take action and HR will have no choice but to accept the woman's harassment complaint because she stated that she felt uncomfortable and that in and of itself constitutes harassment.