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In keeping a positive experience for our disc golf community, we reserve the right to take down photos, comments and other material deemed "unproductive,” by the KCFDC. This includes, but is not limited to, vulgar language, disturbing photos, angry or aggressive behavior toward fellow members and posting anything in violation of any intellectual property right of another. If someone persists in offensive behavior or continually violates any of our house rules, we may block that person from further participation. So please, just remember to respect everyone here and on the course.

i'm fine with discatchers or whatever going in some other town like liberty, i'm sure they have a start-up budget to work with. the Smithville baskets are great for that awesome complex. in regards to the innovas : yes I think the trademark yellow is an eyesore, but recent paint jobs from the ncaa can be applied to any course in question. I just want the best for kc's main destination course, and that's why I vote titans at ww. if I am lucky enough to have grandkids that golf, may they enjoy the saplings at cliff. trivia : what year was the cliff drive tree fund established?

As for the replacement baskets for WW, unfortunately I will be suggesting the continuation of the use of the DGA model. At this point it is also for ease of installation and hardware. We are able to not need to recreate the entire course to please the opinions of a few, even if many.

Do Mach V's have the same pole diameter? (Or for that matter DISCatchers...) Mach V's might be an easy switch, too.

The last time that I checked I wouldn't have been swayed from playing any course with any of the baskets listed, so there again goes the argument that this is strictly an opinionated topic, an there fore has no possibility of ever being defined with a specific answer to the question posed. The question posed is generic enough to only warrant conversations about your opinion.

It is like asking which beer is the best......I have many I like, and I buy many different kinds, but they all have the same effect. They catch me and sometimes I fall out......

1. We weren't trying to change your mind, Jack. That is empirically proven to be impossible. I wanted to give a voice to the community.2. Your point about this being a 'strictly opinionated topic' is categorically false and doesn't follow from your premises, besides. There are real and actual measures for the effects of certain designs of baskets. One difference I'll point out here, the inner chains on Mach III's are too close and cause too many 'kick backs'. The DISCatcher has outer, inner, and intermediate chains and have moved the inner just a little further away meaning that they are less likely to kick things back. I have also provided several other substantive arguments about the design of the baskets I am familiar with which disprove the notion that this is purely an opinion. So far all of your arguments have been purely opinion, so if we look at it from that direction, sure. But if we, as impossible as this may seem, divorce ourselves from preconceived notions about who has worked the most or done the most and try to judge the targets and arguments for and against objectively we can easily see that objectivity is possible.3. Comparing this argument to a 'which beer is best' misses the point. You look to an ends-based approach essentially saying that all beer has the same effect (which I read to mean they make you sloppy drunk, I hope that is your meaning). The problem is that you miss the effects of the ride getting there. While all beer will make you drunk not all beer will be enjoyable in the process. That is also leaving out that some beers will get you there quicker than others. Some should be had warmer and some need to be biting cold. Some need tall glasses and others need bulbous ones. Your reduction of this argument to the effect of the alcohol misses the point, just like your reduction of the substantive issues of basket choice miss every single point I've made

You can say it is subjective all you want but you have failed to attempt to answer anything objective I've pointed out other than saying that the nickel is optional.

no, I choose to continue to go out and do work in the areas to make things happen, (sorry you don't feel that is valid in making informed decisions) and don't listen to dribble about baskets from your stance. Quite simply you like to argue about points that you feel are important. The issue isn't about what basket is best, the issue that you think that your selection is best, and I disagree (surprise, surprise).

I again will go out and validate my own ideals and beliefs by removing myself from an internet chat room and work with the community and partnerships of the people to make things work. Rather it be a Duece-spitter, a Jetsons based green globe, it doesn't matter, if they are all PDGA approved for the TOP level events they will work, so if you were to seriously think that this has merit, you would be needing to discuss this with the powers that be to make the decision. That ain't happening in the KCFDC chat box, it needs to be done at the level that authorizes it to be.

One of these days maybe I will understand your need and desire to feel important about the issues that you feel are germane, but it will take much more work than typing. I can type a mean game, and I can also though go out and work and move things to make things happen. Again I have said and stated that I haven't ever made a decision to not play a course with any of these baskets. They all work, this is again an opinion, your desire to just get under my own skin is something that you enjoy, and I don't mind feeding into it. I have thick enough skin to know that I can be a big boy and make my own decisions. I also know that I am opinionated and stand for what I believe to be in the best interest of others in most situations, however just as all humans have vanity, I as well have an understanding that the need to validate is one that all humans seek.

The problem though is this is a basket choice, and the last time I checked, I hadn't played on a course that you designed, gave a budget to a council or P&R on or made an effort to be "that guy that built it". Talk is cheap, and you have talked about what you feel is right over and over again. I do as well, but I am also typically at the parks making changes, moving baskets, helping to run events, doing things to help make events happen so people enjoy themselves on the course. The last thing that I think about when I am worrying about the joy that everyone gets from playing our sport is, "does cooper like this basket" Not even a glimpse of fleeting thought. Now what I will admit to is, "is there a chain missing on that basket, and how do I replace it.", hmmmmmm.....I don't remember that tree being down, how can I get it removed.......boy there sure is a lot of trash out here, maybe I can take a few minutes and bag it up so that it looks better around here......

Yep, I am avoiding and dodging the opinion of the baskets by you. And I am ok with that as well. I feel that there are a thousand other items that are needed in our little community, and one of which isn't should we switch all the baskets to a basket that many may like better. The important thing to me is to have the courses safer and easier to navigate to ensure that people don't leave our courses going man, I would never go back there.....again the last time I checked all of the baskets you mentioned have never been the deciding factor on that statement from myself, and I have played over 500 courses......

That's it, you knew what I was talking about Danger right away, showing your age. Played on those for years in Ottumwa. I think that Tom still has a few in his possession.

Again Cooper I am just working on riling you up to a certain point, but the topic of baskets if that is really all that we need to be concerned with out there on the courses is silly. Sure there are baskets that everyone likes better than the ones maybe that they are playing on, but they aren't like this or Dr. Dorf's baskets (Danger feel free to respond to that as well), the baskets Pre-tornado at Joplin were a joke, CD didn't even need to stand on his tip toes to get the discs out there.....still played it a few times.

Baskets are subjective, until there is an entirely better entrapment device for our sport they will continue to be subjective at best for everyone.

Mike Hyzer

Paw-paw trees do not grow out in the open spaces where we'd want to plant trees at Cliff. They generally like to chill in the forest, under the canopy of the larger trees. Paw-paws do not understand what the Maples are b%tching about.You can find the fruit at Cliff Drive around #3 pad, #5 green, and #6 green.

Also, if someone took some fancy beer and poured one tall glass and one bulbous glass, and then blindfolded you and poured a gulp of each into your mouth, you would have no better than a 50/50 shot at guessing which gulp came from which glass. I mean, Jesus Christ, I have heard it all now. Please, stop trying to make beer drinking a complicated issue around here, people.

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coops

Let's talk about baskets. Yes, all of these baskets are championship level approved but that doesn't mean they are all equal. Look at discs. They are all PDGA approved but that doesn't mean one isn't better than another. Some is preference. Some isn't. A Star Destroyer is better than a #2 Slice. (Or whatever those things are called.)

And can we get off the 'go out and do work and don't type on here or have an opinion BS. It might mean something if it came from someone who didn't have over twice as many posts as the next closest person.

Now why are Mach IIIs better than the Vs or DISCatchers. I've made my arguments. If you can defend your selection, do so. If you can't, just admit it.

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coops

Also, let's get past the idea that basket selection is purely subjective. I've made solid, substantive arguments for and against baskets which prove there are reasons to prefer one over another. Anyone can argue these points. I'm not trying to argue with Jack. I'm trying to further the discourse of the club and to hash out people's preferences.

Bottom line is this is our club. It isn't the Board's and it isn't Jack's or Rick's or Mine or Tank's or Arturo's. It is ours. The board is there for us and in order for them to do what we want we have to make it known to them. They aren't mind-readers. As long as I'm in this club I am not going to be afraid of being shouted down by whoever tries to do that.

We can get along and we can disagree. I've tried to keep any discussion civil. I know that at times I haven't succeeded but it has been sincerely my goal. Many people who I've attempted to engage have made this a personal issue. That is regrettable. But I hope that we can get past this and we can continue to work for the KC community.

I have played on almost every type of manufactured basket out there, except the Titans. I've heard they are really good, but without trying them I can only comment on what I know. There is no doubt in my mind that Discatchers catch and keep putts, upshots and ACES in better than any other type of basket I've played on.

Everyone has their opinion, but Discatchers are clearly superior and, if a poll was conducted of the top 500 rated players in the PDGA ranks, that would be the consensus I believe.

If there is a choice that needs made for a new course, and the KCFDC board gets to choose, I certainly hope Discatchers are picked, because THEY CATCH BEST!

DGA baskets spit out and allow fly throughs waaay to often.

The argument that the bands are visual pollution is silly. Lakeside looks absolutely awesome with the super bright yellow targets. It's great being able to look across the hills and see the targets easily.

I'd like to try Titans out, and it would be really cool to have one of each type of target all together for a side by side comparison so we could show Jack how much better the Innova targets catch.

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Mike Hyzer

Has anyone ever done a scientific comparison between a Discatcher and the DGA models? You'd almost need a machine to make consistent putts from various heights and angles. Let's find one of these machines and buy... I mean rent it for a few days.

I personally have a Titan 24. They're super cool. However the chains are very rough, and almost feel "cheap"

One point about the Discatchers is, they rust. None of us want to putt on that. None of us want to replace hundreds of feet of chain in X amount of years. The Chastity Belt.. It's unproportional to the rest of the basket. It's like the basket has a bad case of Muffin Top. it''s my opinion but yes, but they are distracting

I don't buy all that visual pollution malarkey. That just seems like folks that don't want baskets of any kind there in the first place