1. 33% (rounded up) of the votes # are required for a deadline lynch (@ end of the day).2. 50% (rounded up or +1) of the votes required for instant death or no lynch (ends the day!).3. Role declarations are possible only after receiving 1/2 of the deadline required votes. - A role claim is defined by posting either one of: 1) role name; 2) role skills; 3) or both. - Posting information that your role obtains is free and NOT SUBJECTED TO THIS RULE.4. Use F1 Name for voting, F2 Name for unvoting, F3 for ending the day with no lynch.5. In case of vote ties, insufficient deadline votes, or F3's majority, nobody will get lynched.6. Game days last 5 normal days, game nights last 2 days. Starting hour: ~21.00 GMT.7. The night results are returned at the end of the night and apply to the next day.

Generic rules:

1. It's forbidden to quote (or pretend to), in any extent, e-mails from the mod or other players.2. Do not talk to anybody whatsoever about the game, OUTSIDE the game topic.3. Dead men don't speak! If you're dead, don't say anything, however harmless it may seem.4. If you don't post for about 10 days, you're in danger of being eliminated or replaced.5. If you have any concerns regarding the game, talk to the mod, or wait until the game is over.6. Use red color only to vote and unvote players during the game. vote: INTERNET STRANGER7. Only mafia members and players chosen by the mod are able to communicate during the night.8. Obscene language, cloning and using external resources will be followed by heavy punishment.9. Please try and remember to put "MAFIA" word in the subject line of every e-mail message.10. Always check your inbox in the "morning". There may be info or mandatory actions waiting.11. When trying to come up with believable roles, remember: Savage is only a theme, not a bible.12. In case of a perpetual state of balance (3 days w/o lynch + 3 nights w/o deaths), everybody loses.13. When you e-mail your targets, use this template: your name, your role, the action, your target.--Example: Daemon, village idiot, bitch-slaps Beard. (This greatly helps me to avoid mistakes!)

Somewhere just beyond the narrow pass of Kayin, in a secluded bowl surrounded by high peaks, lies a small human settlement built around a monastery. An old monk, the sole remaining inhabitant, quietly tends to his domesticated oschores and grows just enough food to keep his physical body functioning, while he immerses into deep meditation about matters of the psyche. Aside claiming the lives of his fellow chaplains that volunteered to provide support and moral comfort to the warriors in battle, the war seems to have spared this isolated corner of the world from destruction.

(http://www.newerth.com/daemon/mafia/m2/m2-01.png)

Unfortunately, Kayin is but a stone throw away from the scene of the most recent carnage, involving the epic struggle between humans and beasts. A small scouting party, dispatched by one of Jeraziah's lieutenants, stumbled upon a remote forest camp where their enemies had been building shrines and defenses around a rich redstone vein. What happened is a clear example of how humans can work together in the face of adversity: as soon as the discovery was reported, every platoon, squad or lone sniper converged towards a hidden gorge near the beasts' camp; a team of engineers quickly put together an improvised workshop and in a matter of hours, three ballistae were ready to rain havoc on the unaware scavengers.

(http://www.newerth.com/daemon/mafia/m2/m2-02.png)

Still busy cutting a path through the dense forest between the redstone mine and their sublair, they never saw it coming. Shamans we left with nothing more than bits and pieces of what used to be their brethren, having no use for their healing magic. And soon, shamans were themselves rendered apart under the sharp axes of the vengeful Legion.

(http://www.newerth.com/daemon/mafia/m2/m2-03.png)

All but one. Still alive after being pierced by a huge arrow, a young shaman was thrown in a ditch, escaping the humans that were seeking survivors and putting them out of their misery. Hours later, despite his efforts, the arrow was still stuck in the creature's back. The hemorrhage had already rendered him unconscious. Though, it was not meant for him to die. Because later that day, while being out, foraging, the old monk had traveled more than usual down the Frogs' path, which lead him right to the wounded shaman. Disregarding his own safety, as well as the reality of the war - that made the poor, suffering beast, his race's enemy - he dragged him to his monastery and lodged him in one of the abandoned huts. Over the next few weeks, he nursed him back to health, treating his infected wounds and damaged spirit, helping the beast rise from its ashes. And named him "Phoenix".

(http://www.newerth.com/daemon/mafia/m2/m2-04.png)

While getting his strength back, Phoenix had become familiar with the human writing and with the help of the monk, he began exploring the pacifistic doctrine of the order that founded this monastery. Mind-opening manuscripts were everywhere, and the shaman soon realized how wrong his previous ways were.

One day, he left. His new mission: spreading the teachings he received from the old monk. Mutual understanding, tolerance and forgiveness, not war, should decide the future of Newerth.

Shortly, many new adepts of the non-belligerant rituals caught on and set on to join the peaceful settlement, where they could look for spiritual enlightenment, far from the horrors of war. But alas, by the time Phoenix returned, the old monk had passed away, peaceful and content with the way he carried out his earthly mission. Tore with grief, Phoenix, and the other previous followers of Ophelia, swore to conduct their lives in the way their human mentor had been, spreading the word of piece and helping those in need, humans, beasts or brainless monkits alike.

Months in, the settlement grew, accommodating newly arrived humans alongside the beasts that were already living there. A seemingly idealistic society emerged. All racial differences were being overlooked or discarded. They were one and the same. Little did they know the price they would have to pay for it. Their new found faith was soon going to be tested.

One morning, as the sun was rising beyond the mountains, much to their dismay, they discovered the headless body of a beast stalker, now a converted fellow monk, on the ground, next to a stake coming out of the ground, with his severed head on top. Written in blood, on the ground, a few words threatened to bring their little universe to an untimely implosion: THERE CAN NEVER BE PEACE! It was signed 'BBB'. Oh, no! The slaying of their brother was claimed by the dreaded Beast Blood Band, a ruthless brotherhood of human xenophobic killers. And by the looks of it, it wasn't going to stop, unless they were going to find the killers hiding among them and banish them from the peaceful congregation.

(http://www.newerth.com/daemon/mafia/m2/m2-05.png)

Each day they were going to discuss the situation and vote the name of the person most likely to be an infiltrated BBB assassin. True to their new beliefs, no harm would be dealt to those found guilty, but instead, just before sundown, they would be blindfolded and dropped in the middle of Moss Woods, leaving them all alone to fend off for themselves, with only a bone knife and the faith in whatever cruel prophets they worship.

An eerie silence fell on the remote settlement. For as long as anyone could remember, Newerth had never been a quiet, safe place. At least you knew what to expect. But more than one unwritten rule was broken in the peace loving community. Distrust and fear were, once again, governing the beasts and humans. The night is a good counselor, or so they say. Remains to be seen if it can bite, too.

The players that have been given roles allowing to communicate between them at night, and only using e-mail, are now invited to do so. As soon as the day ends, all communications outside the game thread stops as well.

ALWAYS CHECK YOUR E-MAIL IN THE MORNING!(when the day begins). There might be messages for you!

There have been rumors about BBB's ruthlessness. Some say that they would kill anyone that stands in the way of racial cleansing. Others say that they are cunning enough to work towards their goals without anyone even knowing they are around - let alone killing people left and right. How will they proceed? How will their xenophobic ways shape the future of the peaceful monastery? It seems like the morning hasn't brought us closer to this answer...

REMEMBER: - NEVER QUOTE (or pretend to) ANYTHING FROM THE MOD. Whatever you want to share with the others, with the exception of your role name (when you have enough votes for it), has to be re-phrased in your own words. Failing to follow this rule results in instant kick.- Read your e-mail in the morning. There may be related messages awaiting for you there.

Finally we get to start another mafia!! I've been waiting for this moment for hours, if not minutes. I'dd like to say hello to all the old and the new players, for I am Tjens, master of Newerth. For all the new players: I have heard that you will get a free DOTA pass if you type F1 SASUKE in red coilour below your post, so better post quickly before they run out!

Oh Moxy, so now you're trying to silence me, the person that is causing an uproar together with you? :p Ironic.You're surprisingly aggressive compared to the previous times; and those times you were town. Hmm. :)

not true, im posting activley, like always im also having fun and joking about, which i normaly do. plus i was mafia last time on Romanian mafia, and i played exactly the same as i normaly do. my play style dosent change from either thoes games or this one, and notice the :lol: <-- at the end of my last post indicating im having a laugh.

Come on people start talking, this silence only helps mafia stay undercover.

Randomly focusing one person does that too. So does revealing a role. So how exactly do you want to break the silence?

So Haku and Moxy are you doing that tactic. Where two bad guys cause uproar so that one out of two is more likely to be trusted as he helped to focus down the other one? And the next step is to focus the people bandwagoning with you two right? Who was it that told me that tactic again? …

Daemon told me that one when i was mafia, but what he also told me was to do it when other people first notice it, it would be rather stupid for both 2 mafia's do it and because of it get one of them lynched, that would be rather sucidal, we're not all you, you know.

Finally we get to start another mafia!! I've been waiting for this moment for hours, if not minutes. I'dd like to say hello to all the old and the new players, for I am Tjens, master of Newerth. For all the new players: I have heard that you will get a free DOTA pass if you type F1 SASUKE in red coilour below your post, so better post quickly before they run out!

Ha! Tjens, for putting a smile on my face I am going to give you a thumbs up!

First, a gday all you here - Makes me happy this game finally started now :mrgreen: - Since it's true that silence helps noone but the BBB, we have to gather whats possible here on a first morning. I yet cannot take anyone all serious, still the way haku lured for prey from the first moment seems a little fishy to me

I think Mind's statement is wrong - I would think the beasts WILL read everything and could be even more punctious, becouse they have something to hide remember?

Anyway, going through behavioral patterns and analysing people's post is not a viable way to point out potential beasts. Remember - this is the internet, and that 20 year old blonde you've been flirting with could be Mr_Matt for all you know. Psychiatry won't work this early on, especially without evidence as it will only create confusion. The only ones who will feed on choas are Moxy and Mind, becouse this seems to be their playstyle. Look where it lead them last game ;)

Instead, lets talk about what happend during the night and deduce the facts. We have had one night yet but nobody got killed. Last time Trigardon got instantly murdered, yet this night nobody got hurt! Also did anyone got the operatunity to use his/her nightly ability?

I just skimmed through the posts again (lol) and saw Pizlo saying the no kill could mean either the beasts themselves or the beast leader is noob. I don't have that much experience in mafia games, but it seems there is one "boss" in every mafia that decides the kill. Becouse of this I think we'll have to target the people we don't know that well first, or at least let them type something as a hello.

Furthermore, to retain the course we have taken on random vote;, I am yet to bask in the presence of SASUKE the great warrior of dung. Where is he!!

The real question is, how new is Tjens to Mafia?Because nearly everything he said is wrong. :roll: Is he trying to confuse the newer participants?On top of that, he's asking for people with night time abilities to to line up for the Mafia to pick off one by one.

Is he new, or just a tricky little devil?

To clarify - Mafia is known to skim over posts because it doesn't matter to them - they don't need to figure out who is on whose side (they already know). They just need to cause chaos and get everyone killed one way or another. (This does not mean that all mafia players do not read posts properly.)

Going through behavioral patterns and analyzing people's posts is exactly the way (apart from night time) to gain clues. On the first day, however, the amount you can observe and deduct is obviously very limited.

Right okay, first of all Mind, how can one be taught Tjens is wrong? Are you taking a class in Tjensonomitry or something? Anyway, I only know that last game we had allot of choas in the beginning of the game and allot of hastefull thinking. And when I spilled the beans on my ability it only helped as ffar as I know.

I'm fairly new to mafia games myself lol, this is my second game after the first one we had here. What I'm saying, Hakugei, is that it's really eazy to impose different pychogolical profiles ont he internet, and going through them as if you're recearcing real people seems counter-productive to me, especially on the first night.

Okay maybe the shoutout for night abilities was a bad one, I'll take that one back. Better to keep things to yourselves for the time being. I'ts just that last game I uncovered 2 beasts by deducing facts from nighttime abilities, and going trough behaviroal tactics did not work for me.

Sasuke comes to say hello at first. I find voting on the first day REDICULOUS!! I shall await the first day, since it is more likely to lynch a human then this bunch of pillaging and murdering villians ravaging our beloved healer city. I therefor vote: F3

Sasuke comes to say hello at first. I find voting on the first day REDICULOUS!! I shall await the first day, since it is more likely to lynch a kind healer then this bunch of pillaging and murdering villians ravaging our beloved healer city. I therefor vote: F3

Sasuke comes to say hello at first. I find voting on the first day REDICULOUS!! I shall await the first day, since it is more likely to lynch a kind healer then this bunch of pillaging and murdering villians ravaging our beloved healer city. I therefor vote: F3

Right okay, first of all Mind, how can one be taught Tjens is wrong? Are you taking a class in Tjensonomitry or something? Anyway, I only know that last game we had allot of choas in the beginning of the game and allot of hastefull thinking. And when I spilled the beans on my ability it only helped as ffar as I know.

I'm fairly new to mafia games myself lol, this is my second game after the first one we had here. What I'm saying, Hakugei, is that it's really eazy to impose different pychogolical profiles ont he internet, and going through them as if you're recearcing real people seems counter-productive to me, especially on the first night.

Okay maybe the shoutout for night abilities was a bad one, I'll take that one back. Better to keep things to yourselves for the time being. I'ts just that last game I uncovered 2 beasts by deducing facts from nighttime abilities, and going trough behaviroal tactics did not work for me.

F1 TjensI finished my Tjensonomitry exams today and I am in your head now dude!

Well, now it seems that my vote for Hakugei was a little to much in a hurry. Looking at all this insanity here, I want to see more of this character mix developing to be more confident with a vote on someone. F3 Hakugei

the problem is the first day is always like this. you have no clue, and whilst some investigators might, it would be rather silly to ask them to come forward this early. its just random voiting and trying to spot mistakes in peoples post.

in my eyes asking people to come forward this early with their nta results, i.e Tjens, is rather stupid and border line mafia behaviour. but since this is only tjens second game, and what seems to me from this first day, tjens noobish and misundestandinhg on how to play the game couldbe the cause of this. just evidence of what i have seen from his first few posts.

so random voiting and insanity of the first day is just something you have to come to accept in a mafia game. the problem comes when its the 2nd or 3rd day and its still like this.

To recap this morning, the following things are the ones I particularly remember this far:* Tjens being funny* Mind being aggressive* Hakugei being Hakugei* Feathers being in a rush* Moxy being constructive

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

People who are not in their rooms can be killed. Take a look at Lucky in the first mafia game. The beasts simply waited for him to return after he killed Hakugei.

All right, so we don't really have much to go in terms of voting. Also, isn't it unusual that nobody died the first night or am I missing something? The reasons I can think of are 1) Sportsmanship Mafia (to give everyone a chance to participate), 2) Incompetent Mafia (failed to give the kill order, like pizlo pointed out) or 3) Someone's NTA prevented the Mafia from killing (a healer or something).

I find 1) very unlikely and 2) unlikely. Most probably it's 3) which has several possible explanations: a healer protecting the victim, a victim not being in his room, etc...

I was referring to the role of Feathers during the previous game. He could leave his room every second night escaping all abilities pointed at him. However, he was a subject to all abilities pointed at the room he was currently in.

People who are not in their rooms can be killed. Take a look at Lucky in the first mafia game. The beasts simply waited for him to return after he killed Hakugei.

"I was referring to the role of Feathers during the previous game. He could leave his room every second night escaping all abilities pointed at him. However, he was a subject to all abilities pointed at the room he was currently in."

im stupid. so its 50%+1 for instant, which would make it 11 players, cause u round up. like i said previously we only have 5, why the hostility agaisnt someone voiting f3.

because it wil be beneficial to the mafia as they end the day without a potential lynch on there members and give them a night to kill someone withdraw F3 if possible (Im on my phone as computer is playing up, pretend that the UnF3 is in red)

i understand that feathers, and if there was only 1/2 more votes left before instant lynch i would be right up there with clemens agreeing with him. but its a little bit forceful when u have like 6 more votes to get before its instant.

i understand that feathers, and if there was only 1/2 more votes left before instant lynch i would be right up there with clemens agreeing with him. but its a little bit forceful when u have like 6 more votes to get before its instant.

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

I CONCUR! Sasuke, lets us take arms against a common enemy in the hopes of smiting him back into the dark cave where he came from! It does not matter who we vote for! As long as someone will have 2 votes on him he will get very nervous becouse we KNOW.

I don't like your rhetorical questions Haku. For I'm certain you can't answer them 100% correctly either. And if you can, something is not right.

The default amount/percentage is always the same (give or take a few); you know that. You don't have to be Mafia to make an educated guess. So why are you trying to sound so suspicious about it?

An educated guess, is not the same as knowing. I just want you to stop with your rhetorical questions. You do a lot by it without doing anything with it. + it clears you from the radar as you don't do anything, yet are able to cause tremendous trouble with it.

It is true that there is little point randomly lynching at these odds, but we still have a lot of time left, so anyone ending the day this much earlier reeks of mafia rushing.

Now what needs to happen in order to end the day? Speaking about the very worse case, we need 8 mafias to jump in and vote F3. In addition they need one more non-mafia to vote F3 and they also need all of the current F3-s to leave their votes instead of withdrawing them. This is simply a surrealistic situation to ever hapen. And of course, while doing that all mafias will leave obvious hints about who they are.

While Hakugei gives a completely valid advice "Do not rush with ending the day", the overall insolence in his wording is far beyond that of a peaceful monk. I would suspect this is merely an attempt to gain undeserved trust and hence I'll temporarily give him my F2 Hakugei to cool him down for a moment.

i understand that feathers, and if there was only 1/2 more votes left before instant lynch i would be right up there with clemens agreeing with him. but its a little bit forceful when u have like 6 more votes to get before its instant.

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

yes because it wouldnt be supcious at all if 5 people suddenly come and place a no lynch vote.... the mafia will totaly do that and not be suspiciois.... like i said, if we were like 2/3 votes away from a no lynch this early. i would quite agree someone placing another would be highly ranked up there to being sucpicous mafia behaviour, but the next person to do it? thats a bit far fetch to me. liker i said i agree with you from some point. but i think your taking it a bit ott.

No one said they'll pile up their votes all at once, that would be stupid.I'd be more inclined to believe they'd stack them up over a course of 2 days (which cuts our game day in half) with the same reason as the previous voters have done. I can't fault their reasoning - chances of randomly lynching Mafia are not on our side, so "might as well" vote for a no-lynch.

As you counted yourself, 8(suspected Mafia amount)+1 would do. It's likely that a few innocents would agree with that reasoning of "better no lynch than a wrong lynch" and thus add to that count. So all things considered, it might even only be half of Mafia required to vote in the end (as I said, over the course of a time period).

Now if we assumed that all the last voters were Mafia, as that seems to be the general consent here (Igors and Moxy) and you pick one of them to lynch the next day and half of them were actually fooled innocents acting "reasonably", we end up with more victims than gained.

A little extreme? Oh definitely, but I'd hate to see the above come true only because I didn't bother to make a point. :)

PS: My personality has nothing to do with my role, funny Igors. :) I'm not a peaceful person online nor in real.

Have mercy.... I am gonna have to count those! Write the name of who you voted on a piece of paper next to your computer. And keep on marking there every voting action you take, so you know where you're at.

Ah, i almost forgot. I'm NOT saying any of you are using it, but employing the tactics of intentionally messing up your votes so they don't count, or so they create confusion, IS FORBIDDEN.

Anyway, can someone thoroughly explain to me WHY are giving away EVERYONE's roles is borderline stupid?I mean, if we all took the time to vote 4 times on each other, (to make a list of everyone's roles, a list of what they did in the nights before) we would surely find inconsistencies (mafia roles, or lies), would we not?

Given that the mafia can only kill 1 guy per night and that most townie deaths are made by votes, revealing roles wouldn't be THAT BAD??

Exactly, if we all reveal a role, then the mafia know who to target, theres only 1 person the healer can save, whilst it would mean that the healer can protect the cop and investigators it means all the mafia have to dfo one night is kill the healer the first night. and if they have a nta than can disrupt or block ours, they just need to use that on the cop they dont see who killed the healer. whilst its not concret that the mafia have that nta this game, it does exsist in mafia game and its not worth taking the risk that deamon didnt put it in.

But wouldn't we figure out who the mafia are? There would be a bunch of suspicious people to choose from. Also, we wouldn't be lynching people left and right, so only 1 townie/day(night) would die. And I seriously don't think that 8~ mafia members can block ALL of our good abilities. That would give us what? 6-7 days to figure them all out (+1 day for every mafia member we lynch). Last game lasted 8 days, I honestly believe this way we'd last longer, if not win even.

we would figure some, but others might be able to hide and guess good working roles from townies, theres only roughly 33% percent of us that are mafia, so chances are we going to hit townies rather than mafia first, and all that will do is give mafia the knowledge of what our roles are like, making it easier for them, to create their own to fit into with ours. if we dont reveal our roles early, and just look for mafia like behaviour, we ask that person for a role claim and it makes it so much harder for them to create a convincing role.

look what shag did with tjens last mafia game on here to prove my point. at some point it is right for us to reveal our roles. but not on the first day.

Lol as far as I know Shagroth "revealed" his role first - and I beleived him at first becouse I had a role similar, but then lured him out by demanding more details, getting beard with him in the process (he supported him).

It seems you guys tend to forget I was the initiator to get the only 2 beasts lynches in the game.

Ofcourse, this was on about day 5/6 so your point still stand in not getting out in the open too early.

Lol as far as I know Shagroth "revealed" his role first - and I beleived him at first becouse I had a role similar, but then lured him out by demanding more details, getting beard with him in the process (he supported him).

It seems you guys tend to forget I was the initiator to get the only 2 beasts lynches in the game.

Ofcourse, this was on about day 5/6 so your point still stand in not getting out in the open too early.

Well, if my mines were actually working previous game, I would have revealed 3 beasts alone. I targeted 2 humans, 3 beasts and 1 mind-controlled creature (aka "human"). :-P Anyway, enough of the fairy tales of the past deeds.

For me it feels too ridiculous, I think UnSaFe is just trolling us, a filthy mafia playing a naive innocent monk. F1 UnSaFe

How can you deny my idea so fast, Moxy, honestly, I haven't witnessed a single townie win here, nor in Romafia forums.And they always keep using the same method to find out mafia, which doesn't work good enough.

I know for 100% that you guys won't support my idea, let alone follow it, I just want to know what's so wrong with it. Oh, and in case you think I don't support my own idea, then go ahead vote on me, I'll be the first one to tell my role.

because it wil be beneficial to the mafia as they end the day without a potential lynch on there members and give them a night to kill someone

If you can agree that votes today are purely random, there is a higher chance of killing a town, not a mafia, so it harms the town to have a purely random lynch, we need someone using their nightime results to lead people to lynch and based on those reults we know if we can trust them or not.

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

A valid concern... later int he game, when mafia members could risk doing that and putting tons of suspicion on them. We did it last game for the last kill, because we couldent be beat if we did. On day one, or any early day for that matter, mafia would never gang up on vote together to force it through early. Someone said they would be more likely to stack and staggar the votes that help them, and that is possible, but a smart, patient mafia, would avoid doing this early, especialy on lynch votes of an innocent, you can only claim inonce and bad luck for so long, and vote records are the most examined thing in the game.

So considering those two things, I still think we need more informed leadership from someone. Would this bring the axe down on the investigator? perhaps, but won't any effective play on thier part bring the axe down all the same? Why not start it sooner, we can learn alot from who votes, or advocates for a person once we find out where their true colors lie, sadly the only way to find this out is a trusted, medic protected investigaor or death.

And I wasnt asking for role declarations, though if BBB try to make up roles they often copy someone elses, giving them away, I was asking for any interesting night time events, someone gets locked in, or disabled, or has a bad dream, who knows, these little things can help without giving away any particulars about an individuals own abilities.

C. Nobody dies, Mafia is still at full numbers and has another night to kill, but so are townspeople.

Both B (the most likely) and C are advantageous to the mafia because they are the minority. What I mean is that whatever we do, chances are the mafia will be in a better place than the townspeople because the mafia are in the minority. So, arguably, lynching is to our advantage because even if we lynch a townsperson, there are more towns people than mafia, so we have room for error. We also have a chance at lynching mafia, whereas not lynching would only hurt us because we are giving the mafia another night.

@ Envious: We have a 2/3 chance to kill a townsperson and an 100% chance that they will kill someone after this night.

If we are lucky yes then we might kill 1 mafia and will loose 1 townie. If we are very lucky like the first night ... then we loose no one and kill 1 mafia, but the odds look like if we lynch someone we will loose with most certainty 2 townspeople till next day...

Yes but on the alternative the mafia have another night to kill someone, so someone is going to die anyways unless they don't kill again which is very unlikely. So no matter what happens the mafia will win "tonight" :-(

F1 Tinki for coming along, voting without giving a reason. + The voted one is someone that appeared to be voted here and there in the last pages, so after a cursorily read-over of the last pages he might look suspicious enough to make most people not wonder why especially this one got f1ed. Sir, I have to say this behaviour -especially after a discussion about idlers started- is highly suspicious to me.

Yes but on the alternative the mafia have another night to kill someone, so someone is going to die anyways unless they don't kill again which is very unlikely. So no matter what happens the mafia will win "tonight" :-(

depends, i mean look at night 1, there was nmo kill, the healer might get lucky again tonight/beasts might fail to send target. if we lynch today with no solid evidence we will have 2/3 chance of putting the mafia in a better position the if we didnt lynch.

having said that the best clues humans always have the forst few days before roles and nta's are announced is votiing patterns and the people that lynched people off... like i said before the first day or two is always hard.

F1 Tinki for coming along, voting without giving a reason. + The voted one is someone that appeared to be voted here and there in the last pages, so after a cursorily read-over of the last pages he might look suspicious enough to make most people not wonder why especially this one got f1ed. Sir, I have to say this behaviour -especially after a discussion about idlers started- is highly suspicious to me.

agree totaly, he didnt even explain why he voted f1 haku. but then again, he might not beable to. the mafia or as we got a goodf number of people, even a traitor clan, could have an ability that means he can only vote once for a person and not speak again. i have known them type of roles to pop up in a mafia game before. and with daemon as admin anything could be here.

and no clems before u say anything i have no clue if there is a traitor clan or not but u cant deny that it would be something daemon would do, espicialy with 25 people, he did last game :P

Well, I did't take that into consideration for my vote, if its not the way you described it'd be astonishingly cold-blooded from tinki as a BBB to behave like this. May be a point, the silly looking randomness could be a clue on a certain NTA bound to a constraint. On the other hand you could start defensive measures for your fellow BBB guy that has done a clumsy start :-P So much to the first day once more :roll:

didnt i say i agree with you about it being really suspicious? but u do have to look at both sides, this could be a good mafia plan to get us to look at a townie rather than a mafia.

of course until something proves the possibliltly of this nta in the game, then of course what he did is hugley supcious, and totaly worth keeping an eye out. but it was just a way to explaining his actions. thats not a away to defend him. i aint trying to defend him. but im trying, although thinking about properly not succeding, into having less confusion in the game but expaling possible reasons why people are doing that they are doing. granted what i i proplery have done is just added confsuion ^^. i was just saying that just because he came and did a random vote on haku, dosent mean he's 100% baddie.

(Only now had the chance to catch up today's posts) I was about to vote for Sasuke for voting no-lynch after my warning.He didn't even mention anything I said, which has me believe he didn't even read it. Mafia are more likely not to read things.

But wow, Tinki. :pNo reasoning, no talking, just a vote. Marvelous! Coincidence that he picked me? :DWhile at the same time it's awfully suspicious that Moxy jumps to defend him that eagerly. Sure, there is a possibility that he's being forced to silence (I've seen that before), but look how long he "waited" to vote. I'd rather believe he'd have done so earlier. (Of course, he might be inactive, but perhaps he's just trying to be silent. But believing the former is a stupid idea as then every silent Mafioso can use that excuse.)Conveniently, now even if we vote for Tinki to get him to speak up, Moxy will have ruined it as the excuse "I was silenced" (lack for a better term) has been thrown out there early.

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

Claiming to be innocent, wouldn't you talk about the mafia as 'them' and not 'us'? I know you're referring to all the players, some of whom are obviously mafia, but you wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand.

...A valid concern... later int he game, when mafia members could risk doing that and putting tons of suspicion on them. We did it last game for the last kill, because we couldent be beat if we did. On day one, or any early day for that matter, mafia would never gang up on vote together to force it through early. Someone said they would be more likely to stack and staggar the votes that help them, and that is possible, but a smart, patient mafia, would avoid doing this early, especialy on lynch votes of an innocent, you can only claim inonce and bad luck for so long, and vote records are the most examined thing in the game.

So considering those two things, I still think we need more informed leadership from someone. Would this bring the axe down on the investigator? perhaps, but won't any effective play on thier part bring the axe down all the same? Why not start it sooner, we can learn alot from who votes, or advocates for a person once we find out where their true colors lie, sadly the only way to find this out is a trusted, medic protected investigaor or death....

This just doesn't feel quite right. Perhaps you're just explaining the thinking from the other side to get better insight. But what you're proposing seems to me rather in the interest of the mafia, opposed to the townies.

Oh right, almost forgot to add something to the whole "odds/chances" discussion.

While numerically the chances are 1/3 and 2/3, that's just not true in practice. It's a lot more difficult to get the random innocents to vote for a 1/3 than it is for the Mafia (+unknowing innocents) to vote for a 2/3. So logically speaking, the chances to lynch an innocent is higher than 2/3. ;)

If we do catch a Mafia early, then yay to us, but the odds are so impossible. :p So without killing randomly, we'll at least have another night for abilities to gather clues (while stiill using the day to talk and gather suspicions).

So, Envious, since you're all pro-lynch, who'll it be in your opinion? Don't back out now. :)

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

Claiming to be innocent, wouldn't you talk about the mafia as 'them' and not 'us'? I know you're referring to all the players, some of whom are obviously mafia, but you wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand.

I understand what you mean, but that wouldn't be a proper english sentence then. :p

So, Envious, since you're all pro-lynch, who'll it be in your opinion? Don't back out now. :)

Well earlier on I voted F1 mind because he looked suspicious to my untrained eyes (I haven't played before) but that was many pages ago. I think Tinki isn't the right choice if we do end up lynching because I think there is a lot more chance he had to go/was lazy and didn't add info to his vote. but then again, you never know. I want to see more people posting before voting, and I feel the mafia might be among the silent. What do you think?

Think about it; how many of us are Mafia?Or to put it more simple - how many votes does Mafia have available to them?

Claiming to be innocent, wouldn't you talk about the mafia as 'them' and not 'us'? I know you're referring to all the players, some of whom are obviously mafia, but you wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand.

I understand what you mean, but that wouldn't be a proper english sentence then. :p

"How many of them are Mafia?" Who is them?

'Them' was supposed point out that a third person reference would've been preferable to a first person one, in the case you didn't want to associate yourself with the mafia. E.g. 'How many players are mafia?'

Wowow thats a lot of posts to read xD, well sorry got on late plus pacific time. From what i read i just see people laying down buffs like there is no tommorow, double bluff here, triple over there, who knows maybe theres a quadruple bluff xD, there was for sure some people i don't know well in this and they jumped out quickly to be suspicious.

gonna have to read those posts again and make a decision, after all one of my first games of mafia playing. I do agree with the discussion that lynching early has a chance of getting an innocent... but really these people are bringing it up so much... it very well be one of those bluffs, they just dont want that small chance of hitting the mafia to catch them in the ass.

Three posts with a vote each. Absolutely no reason given.Tinki, are you even reading the posts?

As you've already said chances of killing a BBB member are low if you've got no clue at all. Since they failed at killing someone the first night we are given another day to investigate.

Still, if you guys say you don't want to lynch anyone this day it'll take the strength of yourvotes. No one will be put under pressure if he catches your vote. He/She knows you'llpull it back anyway.There is hardly any difference between saying you don't want a lynch and voting for it.

So according to you, I looked suspicious. Yet your got vote on me still lingers. You are for killing as I read your post and state you are new at the same time. So why is your vote still on me. As you said yourself that "I looked" suspicious doesn't that make it the past? Even further. Are you telling us, by keeping your vote on me, that there is no one suspicious to you right now? Also I think

I think Tinki isn't the right choice if we do end up lynching because I think there is a lot more chance he had to go/was lazy and didn't add info to his vote.

this doesn't add up. Why are you willing to lynch someone but for some apparent reason not Tinki. You claim to want to lynch. My behavior looked suspicious and you were willingly enough to vote on me for it. Are you now telling me that you don't find Tinki's behavior suspicious? As you are defending him … (Or is Tinki is a girl?)

That is true, happy.But I am prepared to actually pull through with a lynch on someone awfully suspicious.I just won't lynch a "random" person for the sake of having lynched someone.

And as such, my finger points at Tinki. Remember the part of "not reading posts properly"; there you have it.Silent, adds votes onto someone (unreasoned; for the sake of piling up), and then pulls back once under suspicion hoping for a no-lynch to slide away.

The problem of using up this day is that this gives the mafia another night to kill one of us. Haku looks almost determined to have others do an f3, but himself, why? And another night to find clues and trying to convince everyone to follow your vote, please, this is newerth community. F1 hakugei (in red)

Conveniently, now even if we vote for Tinki to get him to speak up, Moxy will have ruined it as the excuse "I was silenced" (lack for a better term) has been thrown out there early.

And suddenly I have 3 main suspects on my list. :)

i was just a sugestion that now seems like im wrong. thast all. it was a stupid mistake because your right. i gave him an excuse to use it. My bad. your right on everything you said about that on why i shouldnt of said that. i was just trying to bring possiblites of why things are happening to the table. the more information townies share the better. i guess i just did it wrong.

Tinki is very supicious and im almost tempted to vote for him, that was before i read feathers post. i wonder

F2 Hakugei since i see no mafia behaviour from you at the moment to warrent the vote all i see is you trying to stir up conversations to try and not waste the day away atm. but now i have to choose between Feathers and Tinki.

Tinki, you come and place a random vote without saying anything, we call you up about it and u remove it, without saying anything, plus the information from your clan mate that your one of the biggest spammers on your clan forum and that makes your behaviour very suspect.

Feathers, it seems for some reason, that i can not see, that your determined to vote on haku for no reason. i do have an explantion for that because i know that you havent like clemens ever since me you and crash did nsl together and u felt he was too intrusive on it. but what i read from your post is that your trying to clutch at straws for reason to vote for someone that already has votes on them. Why? because he wants everyone to vote f3, where has he ever said that? he hasnt, all he's done is ask and look into why other people are votiing on people. its what townies are meant to do durin the day !!

so whilst i think both of you are supicious only feathers is enough to warrent a vote. so F1 Feathers

Hakugei was right, when he said lynching someone at random has a chance of bigger than 2/3 targeting a Townie. However, that's where the game begins. Our task is to replace the randomness with something more certain, even if it's only a slight suspicion on someone.

Even if we end up lynching a Townie, it will give us more clues, due to the reasons why everyone voted for this person.

Feathers has a point here. By the time Haku contributed to the odds-theme, he had already 3 main suspects, so definitely someone suspicious enough to not end the day without a lynch.

Tjens, don't tell you were the initiator on Shagroth last game. Others were sure he was mafia, before he declared his role.. Haku has 3 votes on him now btw (Had while i was writing, now it's 2 only).

Haku looks almost determined to have others do an f3, but himself, why? And another night to find clues and trying to convince everyone to follow your vote, please, this is newerth community. F1 hakugei (in red)

I said quite the opposite, Feathers. Why are you the only one here that thinks differently? Read everything I said, again.

Yes, Dervun, hence I'll "risk" lynching someone I consider suspicious enough, but I won't partake in random lynching. (I already said this. :p) I've seen a Mafia get lynched on the first day before; and to this day and age, I still don't know why! :p

@Tjens, that's usually how it goes for me. :mrgreen: I would receive a lot less votes if I just silently watched.

F2 Tjens, this was more like a rnd vote at the beginning of the game :lol:F1 Tinki, very suspicious. First he votes for someone in his first post without givin any kind of reason.People started talking about him and agreed he is acting very weird and "mafia-like". For me it looks like he wants to use the 2/3 chance to lynch a townie as early as possible. He is either dumb and does not know anything about this game or he suddenly paniced, cause he was acting way too fast.

Yeah, and I would say that's redicolous because he confirmed his role and must know, but :| It happens to the best of us.

Or has Robin been silenced? I think its safe to assume that SOMEONE's role can silence, or someones NTA requires them to be silent the whole next day to use.

And I still am surprised that noone has reported any strange happenings in the night. The BBB already knows what they did to each player, you're only exposing this information to the town, and I don't see it as much of a target, but suit yourself. Noone hindered me last night, does that tell the mafia I was the succesfull healer? nope, it's worthless to them.

Or has Robin been silenced? I think its safe to assume that SOMEONE's role can silence, or someones NTA requires them to be silent the whole next day to use.

While the silencing roles are being used in IRL mafia games, I would expect them to be very rare in online mafia games. After all, it's no fun for anyone to spend 5 days not being allowed to post anything.

Yeah, and I would say that's redicolous because he confirmed his role and must know, but :| It happens to the best of us.

Or has Robin been silenced? I think its safe to assume that SOMEONE's role can silence, or someones NTA requires them to be silent the whole next day to use.

And I still am surprised that noone has reported any strange happenings in the night. The BBB already knows what they did to each player, you're only exposing this information to the town, and I don't see it as much of a target, but suit yourself. Noone hindered me last night, does that tell the mafia I was the succesfull healer? nope, it's worthless to them.

it tells them u have an active nta, grats, they now know that blocking you, if they have that, will be usefull, and maybe no one any strange happenings to report.

it tells them u have an active nta, grats, they now know that blocking you, if they have that, will be usefull, and maybe no one any strange happenings to report.

That doesn't really tell anything. Judging by the previous game we already know that the absolute majority of people have active roles. Yes, some of the roles have limited uses... But then, actually the limited uses are naturally more dangerous ones.

it tells them u have an active nta, grats, they now know that blocking you, if they have that, will be usefull, and maybe no one any strange happenings to report.

That doesn't really tell anything. Judging by the previous game we already know that the absolute majority of people have active roles. Yes, some of the roles have limited uses... But then, actually the limited uses are naturally more dangerous ones.

Some roles are more important than others. I'm pretty sure you know that. Blocking abilities can harm townies too. On the other hand, protecting abilities rarely help bad guys. So, if you were to say you protected someone, even though you didn't give a role description, Mafia will know you are a threat.

it tells them u have an active nta, grats, they now know that blocking you, if they have that, will be usefull, and maybe no one any strange happenings to report.

That doesn't really tell anything. Judging by the previous game we already know that the absolute majority of people have active roles. Yes, some of the roles have limited uses... But then, actually the limited uses are naturally more dangerous ones.

Some roles are more important than others. I'm pretty sure you know that. Blocking abilities can harm townies too. On the other hand, protecting abilities rarely help bad guys. So, if you were to say you protected someone, even though you didn't give a role description, Mafia will know you are a threat.

We're just speaking about different things here. :)

1. Pizlo said nothing hindered his NTA (probably meant as an example).2. Moxy objected that this way Pizlo reveals mafia that he has some active NTA.3. In turn I'm saying that mafia does not profit from knowing that Pizlo has an active NTA because most players have should have one.

Pizlo does not suggest revealing anything about your role. He merely suggests to reveal any abilities which were used against you during this night.

1. Pizlo said nothing hindered his NTA (probably meant as an example).2. Moxy objected that this way Pizlo reveals mafia that he has some active NTA.3. In turn I'm saying that mafia does not profit from knowing that Pizlo has an active NTA because most players have should have one.

What does anyone profit from saying, hey I got an active NTA. Even further say we do that all. People without an active NTA would come forth as well and say that they don't have an NTA. This usually implies that they got a back up role. In the games I played, the back up role has been a healer so far. Free back up healer kill. That must be fun for bad guys. DTA activities are more rare but they exist. Vote changing abilities can be more dangerous late game, so those players are good to know too. Players that haven't used their NTA tend to have vigilante roles, as they can only use it once, they want certainty. Knowing the townie that can kill, can be a major shift in balance. As he can change the win to a loss. Now clarify me how you can talk about NTAs or even DTAs without giving big clues to MAfia as well.

Say I said I woke up with a headache. How does that help anyone? Say that Beard has watched me last night. Beard would know that he saw Daemon entering my door. Now Beard can keep silent or come forth. Beard could state that he saw Daemon at my door. He would reveal he has some kind of detective NTA wouldn't he? Or can you give me a reason on how he can share his information without anyone being able to deduct that he has a detective role. At the same time what use would it be that Beard has that information if he can't share …

And I most definitely don't understand it why we should say. "My NTA didn't get blocked." For that is what you are saying we should do. As that is what Pizlo wants to do according to your first statement, and disagreeing with Moxy, makes you agree with that.

Say that everyone would truthfully whether he got blocked or not. If only one person got blocked, we probably focus him as there was no kill. However it's not necessarily that the blocked person is a thug. The healer might as well prevented the kill. So we pursuit a person that shouldn't have been on a with trial.

Say a person says that he didn't get blocked. Say you come forth and say you used a blocking ability in him. He can say in his turn that someone else protected him then... Two possible things can happen: - The protector says he didn't target him. (protector is in the open, and so is the blocker) - The investigator says only one person visited him. (investigator role and blocker are in the open)

As it seems to me, two valuable roles are in the open for the bad guys. Many more scenarios are possible but those two seemed devastating enough for me.

So Igors, why do you eagerly want NTA information on the first day? Is one possible but not certain Mafia kill worth all the information? I rather push a lynch vote on suspicious behavior than to pursuit a lynch by revealing so much information about our NTAs. Don't forget that everyone even has to co-operate for this to work. You think Mafia people will be the first to come forth?

Please give me good counterarguments to prove me wrong. For now, I don't like it that so many of you are voting for revealing the NTA/ roles.

slightly comical if Robin was the leader of the mafia and was the one who has to kill the townies, but hes gone afk.

yeah indeed that would be mad by daemon, oh and I think robin is right now quite busy, he is also not that active on the WW forum, however he was there today, I guess as well he doesn'T care that much about this game, but that might be my theory

3. In turn I'm saying that mafia does not profit from knowing that Pizlo has an active NTA because most players have should have one.

Pizlo does not suggest revealing anything about your role. He merely suggests to reveal any abilities which were used against you during this night.

I never suggested *everyone* to reveal information related to the night time. In fact my vote is still set against UnSaFe because he was so happy to offer everyone to reveal their roles. I merely agree with Pizlo that if someone had anything extraordinary happening to him - then it is indeed safe to reveal it.

From the previous game I see the following limiting abilities:* unable to move and perform any abilities* unable to vote during the next day (if mafia)* ordered to vote in a particular way* unable to leave the room

If we have someone come forward every day and say "hey I had terrible head-aches previous night hence I was unable to do whatever my role is", "hey I can't vote now", etc. Then he won't reveal pretty much anything, especially in the case when you can't vote or need to vote in a particular way.

Yes, we know that everyone has some ability which can be used. In fact, we can't even deduce whether he has a limited use ability or unlimited one. We only know he has an ability.. Ok, we already knew that. However, we will also know some additional information now which might be useful now or later.

And of course I am not saying you should absolutely come forward and say that you had that problem previous night. You can't control whether everyone is following such an idea anyway. I'm saying that yes - if you do come forward, it might be helpful for everyone.

Therefore your arguments are invalid concerning the people without active NTA-s. They just won't be saying anything.

Concerning Mind+Beard example. Actually it would help Beard a lot. While you and everyone else would not gain any valuable information, at the same time you would help Beard to find out that the particular night guest had a harmful ability and change his Day Time Strategy accordingly (note: it still does not mean the guy with limiting ability is mafia, previous game most limiting abilities belonged to non-mafias).

Generally, I think a lot of the effort in winning the game is helping each other to gain the useful information. Often you want others to know something while it's not necessary for entirely *anyone* to know it. (That's in relation to Beard example)

I'll leave the protector-investigator example unanswered. It all boils down to the common sense, no one would ever expect you to say something which will harm you. :-PAlso. In the end you can never be sure about anyone - is he saying anything you expect him to say? is he not lying? Sometimes even lying is a good strategy. Whenever you managed to discover some mafia and can't reveal your role - you can always try to look for believable lies to reach your goal of lynching the mafia (as unbelievable as it sounds).

Mind, I think voting Tinki is the wrong decision because he isn't blatantly stupid. theoretically, if he were mafia, he wouldn't reverse his vote without saying anything. I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know that that would make him look even more like mafia. He's playing stupidly, but knowing Tinki as a clan-mate, he isn't stupid.

To me, tinki acted like he lost temper. If he wouldn't have responded and just had kept the vote I maybe had believed it was some way of being muted/stunned/wounded or whatever like that. When he took his vote back he made me quite sure that he's in some way under pressure. I could imagine he's a BBB uncomfortable/unprepared for his role. hell, maybe he's distracted by RL or whatever, but if he hadn't got something to hide he would explain himself. Im pretty sure on that. :-P I feel threatened now xD

theoretically, if he were mafia, he wouldn't reverse his vote without saying anything.

Didn't you say you were new to this game?

Isn't it suspicious that he votes after he is accused of suspicious behavior. Afterwards he withdraws his vote simply because we say it's suspicious. When we ask why he is doing what he is doing. He replies with "no idea". I thought you said he wasn't blatantly stupid?

I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to know that that would make him look even more like mafia. He's playing stupidly, but knowing Tinki as a clan-mate, he isn't stupid.

He's smart enough to know, that what he is doing is mafia like behavior, and therefor he isn't mafia? You sure are willing to defend your clan mate. You do know there are only two sides in this game. Good and bad. This might be new to you. But only the bad guys know who they can trust. So why are you willing to trust Tinki so badly. You act so certain that he's innocent. So either you know he's bad and you don't want to see him at his end. Which would mean you are both bad. Either you know he's good and you are bad, but you want to play with your friend of a non related game. You are both innocent and have talked outside the game which is prohibited. Or you are clueless about him but you just want to play with a friend of a non related game.

If your answer is yes to either of the above. I don't like it. If he's so important to you, will you have the guts to lynch him when everything points in his direction. Or will you go for the less obvious one, just to play one day longer. Either outcome will go in the disadvantage of townies, as thugs can easily use you then.

Don't put all your faith and hopes on Haku please. He can manipulate as no other. So please, don't rely on him to do your thinking.

Respond for yourself, before you listen to his comment to later on agree with him. I won't let you hide behind him.

What?! I have already answered completely everything which had to be answered.

And no, I am not looking up to Haku, rather the other way around - arguing with him is hard. However, it is hard for everyone. So better hard for everyone rather than easy for everyone (as I personally do not have as much patience chasing people's logic).

And to explain it even further. I put Hakugei in the following context:* If he finds my opinion wrong I will proceed to defend it and I will succeed.* However, if he finds your opinion wrong - he'll be doing the things which need to be done but which I have not started doing myself (like persuading UnSaFe that he is totally wrong, and explaining Mind more about the underlying logic and misunderstandings of the recent discussion).

* However, if he finds your opinion wrong - he'll be doing the things which need to be done but which I have not started doing myself.

So what things does he have to do? You clearly think some things have to be done. Yet you wait for Haku to do them if he indeed thinks I'm wrong. So if Haku does not think I'm wrong? No actions that should be done, are taken? From this I can only conclude that you will only persuade your opinion if another strong person shares that opinion…

Which I find cowardly. And that you are most likely afraid to get lynched.

My playing style might not be the best. As I've committed suicide every time so far. But I won't sit quietly and hide behind Haku, Daemon or Radwulf for that matter.

So what things does he have to do? You clearly think some things have to be done. Yet you wait for Haku to do them if he indeed thinks I'm wrong. So if Haku does not think I'm wrong? No actions that should be done, are taken? From this I can only conclude that you will only persuade your opinion if another strong person shares that opinion…

Which I find cowardly. And that you are most likely afraid to get lynched.

I have already wrote a comprehensive answer to your wall of text earlier. And you did not answer me because probably you agreed with me. At the same time you said things which point you might in fact not be satisfied with my answers:

Respond for yourself, before you listen to his comment to later on agree with him. I won't let you hide behind him.

That is why the only way for me to answer you now is to wait for some third player to come, read it and post "hey IgorS/Mind - you are both wrong!". Or post something else. Only that triggers a further dialog. :-P

I am ready to defend my opinion any time of the day, just not against the highly implicit hints that I am wrong. :-P

And yes, I mentioned Haku before you posted that thing I just quoted. Initially it was partially a joke, while also referring to the discussion started by Pizlo .

Don't put all your faith and hopes on Haku please. He can manipulate as no other. So please, don't rely on him to do your thinking.

Respond for yourself, before you listen to his comment to later on agree with him. I won't let you hide behind him.

And while this answer could potentially be completely unrelated to Pizlo's discussion above, I have no received any response from you concerning that topic, hence this is at least partially considered to be a continuation of the previous argument.

I agree. If all information points to him, so be it, lynch him. If he's stupid, he's mafia. If he's messing with us, he's mafia. There is no reason, if he were townie, to not say anything about his vote. I guess your right. But we shouldn't forget about anything. He could be stupid, he could be lazy, he could be mafia. I don't know. It's true that he is currently the person we have the most info to know that he mafia. More than any other votes going on. You've convinced me, and I acknowledge I was wrong. You keep on reminding me it's my first game, and that may be true, but I'm not an idiot.

So what things does he have to do? You clearly think some things have to be done. Yet you wait for Haku to do them if he indeed thinks I'm wrong. So if Haku does not think I'm wrong? No actions that should be done, are taken?

Believe it or not, but I'm not around all the time. :roll: By the looks of things, you guys can keep the day active just fine without me.

So first you guys escalate into full-out theoretical war about NTAs on the first day? I ask you, why? :p Roles this early are something you want to keep secret as to not be targeted by less-favoring fates during the night.

However, I do agree that we (the innocents, Skuggi) need to share information to complete the puzzle. The only question is the form in which we share it; just announcing it obviously only makes sense if it doesn't discriminate you in the end. A healer proclaiming he healed/protected the first night's victim (hence no death) may be excellent to know for us and to be able to trust that person, but in return that would very quickly mean that person is taken from us as there is no Mafia group that would willingly keep said ability around for a long period of time.

Sharing what was done to us and if we were home/room or not might be less harmful things to share; the latter to be handled with care, though. Frankly, it may not help us innocents much at this point; it's more like groundwork for the future once a lot of things have happened. But, this favors the Mafia side just the same as they know what opposition (parts of it, anyway) they'll face or lies to hide behind.

As you see, any info to be shared needs to be thought over. Any suggestions?

And after that long discussion, suddenly I'm in the spotlight without even having said a word. I must say, that was hilarious to read. :) It would seem that Mind is scared of me, while Igors very much hopes I'm on his side. While Feathers just hates me in general.

And now to Tinki, on whom my vote still rests; I do assume he's new to this, but I do not assume that he is "stupid". You see, I've given many new players here the benefit of the doubt for acting strangely, that they might just be inexperienced innocents. Tinki, however, is doing mistakes (as a new player) that I would actually align towards the Mafia side. He wanted to add in a vote, not knowing exactly how, and then paniced as he was called out for it, trying to run away and hide (as an inexperienced Mafia might play it out). It is possible that he's innocent and just overwhelmed by the situation. Additionally, I think it's awfully sweet how there are a few people defending him for it. :) Even if he turns out innocent, there is only one side that could know that in advance. (Remember what I did on the first Newerth Mafia game? I vouched for an innocent and "got away with it".)

Two more things:@Pizlo, why are you so hellbent on guaranteeing that there is a "silencer" role here?

There's pretty much all about it been said already. In general, I tend to weight action (votes, activity, even the disposition) a bit more than thoughtful declarations of the intentions and page-long breakdowns on the general stiuations or other people's possible intentions.

Following this, Tinki's behaviour just set off the alarm bells when he quickly threw out this random looking vote after some people started to look closer on silent players. In the beginning my main intention for a vote on him was to raise pressure and get some declaration from him, but every action from him since then makes me more sure.

Also the way he gets stubbornly defended by others while having not a single defending line from himself is pointing rather in his direction than away from him.If nobody cared that he's threatened I would be less sure, but with all this I'm pretty sure that we really got one of the BBBs on the hook with him. Still, I would be the last one closing myself to arguments from Tinki, but everyday that passes without any defense against these accusations makes me more sure.

And now to Tinki, on whom my vote still rests; I do assume he's new to this, but I do not assume that he is "stupid". You see, I've given many new players here the benefit of the doubt for acting strangely, that they might just be inexperienced innocents. Tinki, however, is doing mistakes (as a new player) that I would actually align towards the Mafia side. He wanted to add in a vote, not knowing exactly how, and then paniced as he was called out for it, trying to run away and hide (as an inexperienced Mafia might play it out). It is possible that he's innocent and just overwhelmed by the situation. Additionally, I think it's awfully sweet how there are a few people defending him for it. :) Even if he turns out innocent, there is only one side that could know that in advance. (Remember what I did on the first Newerth Mafia game? I vouched for an innocent and "got away with it".)

Also the way he gets stubbornly defended by others while having not a single defending line from himself is pointing rather in his direction than away from him.If nobody cared that he's threatened I would be less sure, but with all this I'm pretty sure that we really got one of the BBBs on the hook with him. Still, I would be the last one closing myself to arguments from Tinki, but everyday that passes without any defense against these accusations makes me more sure.

i do have to say, like in my last post that tinki is highly supcious and i was wondering if i should vote for him or feathers, i decided to go on feathers, to give tinki benifiet of the doubt, but the more he stays silence. the more guilty he looks. i already explained why feathers might of acted the way he did. but i still felt it was strange so i decided to vote for him.

however tinki behaviour is really strange and cant be explained away just as being noobish the more he stays silent, the questrion is was it noobish townie behaviour or mafia.

i would rather not lycnh someone off on only 2 posts and im surprised that you clems, is so for it. yes the two posts he did was rather questionable. very. but two posts in my view aint enough to lynch him. However if tinki dosent respond soon i will have to agree that as a first day lynch, they way he acted he might be the good sacrifice needed.

Afterall thats what the first day lynch is. like it was said early, the chances that the first day lynch is mafia is so small. however you only get the good clues by lynching people, and even if tinki is good, its not he's exactly particiapating or helping townies. im going to give tinki time to respond and hope he does before tommrow night, otherwise there will be another vote on top of his head.

Do you always only talk after people have done their statements. Agreeing with people is just so easy...

I do not. At the moment I am sitting in the background watching what goes on at this first day, trying to find someone who seems suspicious even though this game is in its beginning phase! :)And why should I try to offend ppl or even argue with them though I absolutely agree them in every point they stated?!

@Moxy: I know what u mean, it is hard to judge Tinki by that 2-3 sentences he posted here, but still I think its worth a try to lynch him and we may get some usefull info out of that sacrifice :)

i know i acted stupid <.<was somehow tired and someone told me i would need to vote and than forgot about the f3 part and don't read all things till that and i have no idea why i voted for hakugei :/

sry for that stupid vote and yeah i'm reading now every post saw bit late on forum game started as i never check newerth forum till that and was some bit of lazy to read all posts which had been postedsry :/

i still not know whether ur playing stupid and mafia or just plain stupid. did you not know that u have to read all posts! lazy to read all posts? okay you are now after we called you out on it. But surley you realised, that a post by post game, means u kinda need to read all the posts! and u should of got an email stating the game started, dont u check your own emails...?

sry but to me thoes excuses just seem a bit far fetched.

no idea why you voted for haku? apart from other people did?

sry, i gave you the benifiet after only 2 scentances, but that post just put me over the edge.

i'm not checking every day that posted e-mail and yeah i can understand that people vote for me for being so stupid and no didn't really knowed that i need to read every post as this is my first mafia game

This is ridiculous, we should really not get in to that type of stuff at any time, when we have this time to elaborate on other subjects. And yes with what lucky said, if you guys keep bickering, it makes everyone else who isn't in the argument the ability to slip back into silence without having any suspicion laid on them.

This is ridiculous, we should really not get in to that type of stuff at any time, when we have this time to elaborate on other subjects. And yes with what lucky said, if you guys keep bickering, it makes everyone else who isn't in the argument the ability to slip back into silence without having any suspicion laid on them.

it's not like either of you were doing anything.

But now I say. Spill the beans. Come on. Say something value. For you had slipped into silence too.

This is ridiculous, we should really not get in to that type of stuff at any time, when we have this time to elaborate on other subjects. And yes with what lucky said, if you guys keep bickering, it makes everyone else who isn't in the argument the ability to slip back into silence without having any suspicion laid on them.

it's not like either of you were doing anything.

But now I say. Spill the beans. Come on. Say something value. For you had slipped into silence too.

Alright, so far from what I see you are most certainely mafia member. First of all, most of your posts seek for drama to buy some time for bollocks discussions. Examples: you were seeking for if somebody wasnt talking outside of game - Im sure Daemon has it all under control; keeping up the each other calling stupid thread up; however most of all, you are poiting all the time at someone else, first you were accusing Arjey if Im correct, for hiding behind somebody's back, now you are accusing me because I dont talk too much. Most of your point are pointless and bring nothing more but side topics.

Killing Tinki would yield a little information to go off of... is it worth the risk though. Borderline for me, but I'd like to see a new player get more of a chance in the game, but my vote would be the 7th, not the 8th... hmm, 20 minutes to decide

Killing Tinki would yield a little information to go off of... is it worth the risk though. Borderline for me, but I'd like to see a new player get more of a chance in the game, but my vote would be the 7th, not the 8th... hmm, 20 minutes to decide

Phoenix has posted at least one (I'd guess was page 4-6, the very bottom), something useless like "Hi I'm watching you all". And possibly he posted once more later.

Also, it's not 20 minutes. It's 2 hours and 7 minutes at the moment till the day ends.

While the severed head up on a spike is proof of what dangers loom upon the peace loving congregation, the recent day wasn't any more heart throbbing than the night before it. Somehow, petty grievances were more common than proper inquisition. No progress has been made in their feeble attempt at cleansing themselves of the BBB assassins.

It's NIGHT 2, until Mon, Feb 13th, 20:00 GMT. Please send in the targets. Don't forget to sign your e-mail and to make sure the word "Mafia" is in your message subject. If you have any questions, e-mail them to me asap.

Tip of the day:Players are not informed about the effect of other NTAs being used on them unless there is a tangible effect. For instance, if Player A attacks Player B, but Player C defends him, so that the attack is unsuccessful, Player B won’t be informed of any of the 2 actions that he has been subjected to. Or, if Player X has no NTA that night, but Player Y and Player Z both block him, Player X won’t receive any notice. The only times when someone is informed about it is when that action affects him. Example: if Player P is forced by Player R to vote for Player Q, Player P will be told of this mandatory action.

The subtle vibes one may pick, while roaming the sacred grounds scattered all over Newerth, have been in constant change. The land resonates in different ways, just like a living organism. You can see nature's passion in the green of the tiniest patch of grass that sprouts from below a field of snow. You can see the trees crumbling upon the weight of the horrors they've seen when sentient beings turn towards each other. You can see the livelihood of a chiprel running around its chosen one during mating season, feeling lucky.

In his room, high up in a tower above everyone else, windows wide open, a shaman was feeling the breeze of the night. Oblivious to his immediate surroundings, he was only listening to the music of the wind going through the trees of Kayin. Little did he suspect a blade was going to sever his head from his body before the night was over. I guess he wasn't that lucky.

In front of the monastery, eyes half open, Lucky's head on a stake was grinning crookedly at the rising sun. Yet, one could feel a faint smell of chicken soup :/.

Tip of the day:There is no confirmation of receipt from the mod, when you’re sending the night targets. If you desire such acknowledgement, you have to include a “receipt confirmation request” from your e-mail client, when sending the e-mail.

Sorry for my "awayness" guys but I had a little bit of accident and broke a bone. Hope I will be able to post more from now on.

They clearly took someone that didn't have much story background yet, so there are not much clues left to guess what and why. Quiet people in the spotlight once more I'd say, since they could aswell have taken one that didn't post yet at all. Why didn't they do? Knowing their names too well?

This is ridiculous, we should really not get in to that type of stuff at any time, when we have this time to elaborate on other subjects. And yes with what lucky said, if you guys keep bickering, it makes everyone else who isn't in the argument the ability to slip back into silence without having any suspicion laid on them.

it's not like either of you were doing anything.

But now I say. Spill the beans. Come on. Say something value. For you had slipped into silence too.

Alright, so far from what I see you are most certainely mafia member. First of all, most of your posts seek for drama to buy some time for bollocks discussions. Examples: you were seeking for if somebody wasnt talking outside of game - Im sure Daemon has it all under control; keeping up the each other calling stupid thread up; however most of all, you are poiting all the time at someone else, first you were accusing Arjey if Im correct, for hiding behind somebody's back, now you are accusing me because I dont talk too much. Most of your point are pointless and bring nothing more but side topics.

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Great so it wasn't you apperently, because that would've been to obvious ... I see ... I would say the same if I were you ;) but yeah leave it for now.

What else did happen at night, besides that BBB apperently beheaded Lucky? Someone got some news, some evidence, some special things?

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Great so it wasn't you apperently, because that would've been to obvious ... I see ... I would say the same if I were you ;) but yeah leave it for now.

Don't you think people have focused me this night? People who are in the spotlight tend to get focused ;)

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Great so it wasn't you apperently, because that would've been to obvious ... I see ... I would say the same if I were you ;) but yeah leave it for now.

What else did happen at night, besides that BBB apperently beheaded Lucky? Someone got some news, some evidence, some special things?

So basicaly what ur asking is if someone has an active nta.... isnt it a bit to early to do that?

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Great so it wasn't you apperently, because that would've been to obvious ... I see ... I would say the same if I were you ;) but yeah leave it for now.

Don't you think people have focused me this night? People who are in the spotlight tend to get focused ;)

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Great so it wasn't you apperently, because that would've been to obvious ... I see ... I would say the same if I were you ;) but yeah leave it for now.

What else did happen at night, besides that BBB apperently beheaded Lucky? Someone got some news, some evidence, some special things?

So basicaly what ur asking is if someone has an active nta.... isnt it a bit to early to do that?

Isn't there sometimes some info you get in the morning, that something strange happened, wasn't that something we discussed on day 1? or am I totally wrong now?

1. Lucky sensed something in Mind and was correct about it. One critical mind less.2. BBB killed Lucky to make us think about point one, so we kill Mind and thus an innocent.3. The kill was basically unrelated to the happenings of day 1.

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Him having no evidence for his vote doesn't have to mean it was worthless. He was right with one thing: You had several sideway-discussions ongoing, making the thread slightly more confusing. And you are exactly the kind of player, that would dare killing the person being suspicious of him.However, we don't know what happened, maybe it's Valli who planned to bring that up, while killing Lucky.

Yeah Devrun all what you say is possible, I just feld the need to ask mind, as it was actually quite obvious when checking through day 1, and apperently there is something mind doesn't want to tell us, or at least it sounds like that...

Don't you think people have focused me this night? People who are in the spotlight tend to get focused ;)

that kinda tells me that u got blocked. or is that just a guess, im wandering how u knew u were focused....

To me it tells something different and it's good you brought that up. If he got blocked he either knows, or he doesn't, so being focused does not imply he was blocked. If he wanted to say that, he could have.Now after clearing, what it didn't mean, to the actual meaning: "I didn't do anything bad, because i sure as hell had someone observe me last night!"That's my impression, implying something which is awfully wrong. Not everyone on the Mafia side does the actual killing, or other stuff that could be considered bad.

Frankly, accusing the victim's last vote target on the second day is such a banal thing to do.There are so many targets, why would anyone even risk that. From what I've seen, Mafia tends to pick off the quiet targets right at the beginning (to avoid being caught early on, while also they have no reason to feel threatened by random banter from the first day).

As a result, Valli is more suspicious than Mind is.

Having that said, F1 Phoenix.He was more quiet than Lucky (whereas Lucky had a genuine excuse), but he was not inactive either - as soon as he was mentioned, he made sure to let everyone know he's here (very quickly at that). He showed no interest in putting effort into gathering info or spotting Mafia - quietly watching from the shadows as the town kills off one another. I have no evidence against him, but that's classic Mafia style.

I have not forgotten about Tinki; I am sure at this point that he is hopelessly inexperienced, but I am unsure for which side. The way I see it, he's on the list now so even if I don't pressure him right now, he's bound to make more mistakes (and if he's Mafia after all, he'll make those mistakes obvious enough sooner or later). If Tinki stays quiet to lose some of the heat, I'll re-focus on him as there's no excuses for not helping (if he's innocent).

yes i know that contridicts my post to vali, im been thinkng, in daemon games alot of people have nta's normaly. and the only information that townies gets is from nta's. the posts is just what people interpertate. so spreading information is important to help townies. so i agree with vali now, did anythig happen to anyone of importance?

I don't know what you guys are expecting, but what could possibly have happened worth telling during the night?

Abilities that interact with other players are either blocks or vote manipulation. Telling about having been blocked is semi smart, unless you can be sure you were blocked by Mafia (fe if you were beaten up and therefor couldn't use your ability, it's obvious whose side the blocker is on)Vote manipulation might become important later in the game, but for now it's not to be expected.

If someone witnessed the murder, he will come forward on his own. Asking for observations doesn't harm, but it also won't help. We have to gather our clues without additional information until someone can contribute useful facts.

For now, i have to agree with Hakugei here, Phoenix is very suspicious.

I agree with pho, he said he was reading and looking at people, but he hardly posted anything what so ever it was a very quick jump in jump out moment where he avoided any spotlight when his name was mentioned the first time.

hang on, dont u think its a bit supicious that Valli were possibly manipulated into voting for faun and that Valli told us this only a couple of posts after dervun posted this.

Quote

Abilities that interact with other players are either blocks or vote manipulation. Telling about having been blocked is semi smart, unless you can be sure you were blocked by Mafia (fe if you were beaten up and therefor couldn't use your ability, it's obvious whose side the blocker is on)Vote manipulation might become important later in the game, but for now it's not to be expected.

i was on the server when valli told daemon he needed to talk to him 10 mins ago, and then he posted that post. so i kinda believe valli for now. but thats kinda supcious after dervun posted that...

yeah I posted once, I'm visiting this place few times a day and checking what do people say. Tinki has 6 votes, mine will not chnage anything for now....

- For me this really looks a bit like you jumped in for tinki, since your vote has changed a lot on his lynch, instead of making it only one thrilling last minute vote missing, you pretty much left the air out of it. Taken a possible disagreement from you about the way and purpose from lynching tinki, its still that telling "your vote won't change anything"(but an F3 would?) was nonsense. Such things can happen sometimes, tho; still it looks too much like a distracting maneuver for me to reason an investigative vote on you.

I also believe valli for now xD right now the matter at hand is pho. He is on the hot spot and if he is truly reading the forums he will see this.. if we do lynch him. I don't see to big of a harm. He is not pushing anyone for the townies and he is just hiding from the spotlight. So he very well could be a mafia. So i am gonna go with these guys on this one. He fits the criteria very nicely for being mafia

hang on, dont u think its a bit supicious that Valli were possibly manipulated into voting for faun and that Valli told us this only a couple of posts after dervun posted this.

Quote

Abilities that interact with other players are either blocks or vote manipulation. Telling about having been blocked is semi smart, unless you can be sure you were blocked by Mafia (fe if you were beaten up and therefor couldn't use your ability, it's obvious whose side the blocker is on)Vote manipulation might become important later in the game, but for now it's not to be expected.

i was on the server when valli told daemon he needed to talk to him 10 mins ago, and then he posted that post. so i kinda believe valli for now. but thats kinda supcious after dervun posted that...

If I understand 'Vote Manipulation' correctly, he has to vote as he is told, right? Wouldn't it always be beneficial for him to point out that someone is manipulating his vote, as an explanation? I don't see how this is related to Dervun's post. By the way, isn't this ability usually on the townie side, or can that not be taken as granted?

I suppose there's no reason why Valli would lie about that, as it takes away a lot of his potential power (unable to vote freely).Just don't take it as a sign of "telling truth = innocent creditability". :p That could be dangerous in the long round.

Wait what? the best tool townies have is your power to vote! and did u just suggest that vote manipulation, i.e removing a townie of this power, is a townie nta?

and yes it would be right that Vali pointed it out, but isnt a bit supcious that he pointed this out only 1/2 posts after dervun suggested that the ability could be in the game?

Seems more like a coincidence to me; as if Valli was waiting for Daemon to confirm he was allowed to share this info with us.Also, check Daemon's End of Day1 post, the green bit, Moxy. It actually suggests there might be a vote-enforcing NTA around - incidentally before Dervun suggested it.

Is it now wrong that I siad it? Be happy that I informed you -.-I hope others have some more information so that we can start to get the puzzle pieces together to nail the BBB down, and yes Phoenix, what you wrote on the 1st day in the end was just strange ... I guess alot of people are happy if you could clarify that.

@What can we say?Remember, we are allowed to say something, as long as we are not quoting/ or pretending to quote Daemon directly.

Seems more like a coincidence to me; as if Valli was waiting for Daemon to confirm he was allowed to share this info with us.Also, check Daemon's End of Day1 post, the green bit, Moxy. It actually suggests there might be a vote-enforcing NTA around - incidentally before Dervun suggested it.

wow okay seriously, okay your correct in that. but that was just an example, it suggests sweet FA. are you seriously suggesting that cause daemon gave an example of that particular nta that its in the game? No, the fact that he posted that in the example mean nothing.

Wait what? the best tool townies have is your power to vote! and did u just suggest that vote manipulation, i.e removing a townie of this power, is a townie nta?

and yes it would be right that Vali pointed it out, but isnt a bit supcious that he pointed this out only 1/2 posts after dervun suggested that the ability could be in the game?

My mistake, it was a townie ability in the last Mafia game here on Newerth and it should work on mafia members too (i.e. turning their votes) - hence my thinking it was a townie ability.

And he has to say it, doesn't he? Unless it's a very elaborate lie, which I highly doubt, because it doesn't seem to serve any purpose. I'm not saying he's a townie or mafia, I just don't see it as a reason to be suspicous.

im saying isnt it a bit weird that Dervun suggested that the role could be in the game, and low and behold 2 posts later it was confirmed it was...

And I'm saying it's not weird, since Daemon already suggested it. :pIt is possible they're trying to come up with an elaborate ruse, but I'd be surprised if anyone really fell for it (especially after my warning).

Now, I shall pretend to go along with you - so, you think Dervun might have set it up for Valli?

i'm thinking that its a huge concidence, and in this game there is a few concidences.

i want to make it clear, since i was on the savage server when vali asked to speak to daemon privatley, that i belive Vali for now. i very much doubt he would of done that if vali is lying, so for now i belive Vali.

However for Dervun to suggest it right at the beggining of the day, when someone was blocked. just seems a bit wierd to me. i was just wandering if anyone else thought it was a bit weird too.

Well, to clarify this a little:Valli posted 9:30 minutes after i did, so if we assume he came up with the idea of his post after mine, he had very little time to talk to Daemon, read my post, think about a concept and then actually posting. I guess my post influenced his on the phrasing of words, but that should be all about it. In addition, what he said kinda proved me wrong.

Whoever has some crazy thoughts about me being involved in an active way should clear his head. All this gained a lot of attention, effectively caused by the timing. In which way would a Mafia team benefit from something like this? It doesn't make me trustworthy, same goes for Valli and Faun.

From what Haku has said along with the others, I have to agree. He DID say himself that he checked the forums a lot and was interested in the game, so I'm expecting him to post why he isn't mafia in the near future (1 day).F1 Phoenix

Ya i agree, if he is truly reading the forums it will be his turn to talk, he will have to stand up for something and try to shake us off with a pretty damn good reason, because most of us are pretty sure or determined that he is mafia.

Btw, I don't know if this helps but I was forced to vote for Tjens on Day1. Didn't know I was allowed to say this until I saw Dervun's post. I would also like to mention that in the first mafia game I was a townie which had the ability to force people to vote on others. I think the name was human sheriff or something. So this ability is not exclusive for the mafia.

Okay so Phoenix might be a Mafia player, but as far as we know Haku could just as well be manipulating us in his expert style of doing. Hence I'm not going to vote against Phoenix untill he makes a validable defence for himself and can be judged on that.

If he's not responding within at least 2 days I'll have his head!

On Lucky / Mind - obviously they picked a rather low profile player with only one vote on him. I know Mind can be arrogant enough to just kill him if he were mafia, but I'm more inclinced to beleive it's just a simple ruse to get us going against him.

Now Devrun - your post is making me very suspicious. You won't have to benefit as a mafia from your error of pointing out a NTA confirmed 2 posts from yours - it could be a blatant mistake.

Less than 20 hours passed during the start of the second day and Phoenix has already 4 F1s on his neck.Don't lynch him before he can speak. Instant lynches are bad stuff. :p

Agree and disagree.

Everyone should have the benefit of the doubt(and a chance to explain themselves), but what should we do if he doesn't respond at all? Even if he IS a townie he'd be more useful dead this way. That would help us to figure out suspicious voting patterns in the long run.

But yeah, there's no need to join the bandwagon yet, there's still 4 days left, so no rush.

Tjens, i'm not sure if i understand you correctly. Are you saying, my last post made you think i am Mafia together with Valli? If so, answer me some questions:

Why isn't your vote on Valli? If i am involved in this in any other way than simply mentioning the possibility of a skill like this, Valli is in it, too. Also there is the very little chance he took my words and used it for some strange purpose. However if i am Mafia (which i'm not) because of this, Valli is too, but not the other way around.

Furthermore, what exactly is my mistake? I mentioned vote manipulation in a context explaining why we shouldn't put too much hope in night time happenings for now. I even was wrong on the particular matter concerning manipulation. No matter how you twist it, your vote on me seems very far fetched and, as i pointed out, is also on the wrong person.

I think personally I more and more get this "Dervun talked about Vote Manipulation before Valli did" as some defocusing strategy, intended to get the heat off from Phoenix and heating up various others. I think it has the highest priority to get more light into the Phoenix vote behaviour/Tinki story, since there are two people highly suspicious of being BBB. Trying too hard on distracting the group, making them vote for someone else now seems mafia behaviour or at least dangerous to me... Lets keep the occurrances in mind and use them in the right places, but try to stay focused now - everything else helps mafia

What else did happen at night, besides that BBB apperently beheaded Lucky? Someone got some news, some evidence, some special things?

This is while he knew he got targeted to be voted on someone else. Now why would he ask information from others while he has information himself? This is under the veil he’s not sure he’s supposed to tell anyone he got forced to vote. Not saying he is a beast

Vote manipulation might become important later in the game, but for now it's not to be expected.

Now Valli says he “asked Daemon if he can say he got forced to vote”, and got a yes, wich I think is ridiculous. For instance I never heard anyone saying he had to vote one someone else before, while Winterfresh had an NTA like that in the last game, and nobody ever said anything about it. Thus I think it’s a bit far fetched you are actually allowed to tell you have to vote against someone. (I don’t know if all the rules from the old maffia apply this time around though)

Moxy also states he was on the server when Valli wanted to ask Deamon something. Now I don’t know if you guys are actually covering up for eachother that blatently obvious, but I’m not trusting anyone at this moment.Also – this could be entirely unrelated- Phoenix; whether he may be beast or human, in the meanwhile could be used for a diversion away from the real threat.

Hmmm.. Okay, you win. After going through everything again I can’t say there is enough evidence to support my conspiracy theory, and it depends on too many factors to work. Back to the drawing board I guess. I’ll retract my vote on you.

Kay so:@why I was watching this topic and didnt post....-imo it was impossible to type any suspicious persone when nobody said anything interesting yet, watching and waiting for mistakes is more interesting than pointless bs chat imo, i also play this 1st time and checking rules didn't clear for me everything so i decided to watch what is this game really about, watch who seem suspicious, dont chat bs, thats is why i was so silent

@tinki no-votes - as i said higher, i didnt understand all the rules, and somebody said about: his vote could change much but he didnt" - i didnt cuz i didnt knew something xD + i saw no reasons of blaming tinki, maybe just small ones

as they say "speaking is silver but silence is gold"

perma F1 Hakugei for:-blaming me (innocent person(in this mafia game ofc)) without any great reason (Hakugei: "I have no evidence against him, but that's classic Mafia style." <= btw im glad so i am classic already while 1st time plaing this game)-being smart (smart mafia is bad mafia, dangerously makes confusion - as haku did) OR pretending to be smart (we no need those peoples in innocent part of town, they spread confusion, not clarify accidents, as he did)-too far going conclusions made from not really great examples/reasons (not sure of english word i should use) = much speaking and much much less clear motions from it

Lucky was good man lets have a minute of silence for regarding his death .... ))))))

and btw if i'd f1 tinky and he would die, but i didnt, it could be like: i am mafia defending mafia... so lets kick them two!!! BUT at least 50% of those people are not mafia(me xD) and think twice before kicking us out without reason cuz mafia may be 2 people closer to win and destroy ours beloved town in just two days! or it also can be 1-1 in killed persons if tinki really is mafia or yes, you may kill two mafia's but u will not

-being smart (smart mafia is bad mafia, dangerously makes confusion - as haku did) OR pretending to be smart (we no need those peoples in innocent part of town, they spread confusion, not clarify accidents, as he did)

I do not merely pretend to be smart. So you'd prefer if everyone was dumb? :) On top of that, I do not create confusion, quite the opposite - I've been clearly trying to spot scummy behavior like yours. Did you not notice the confusion and distractions others have caused? Yet I'm blamed for it? ;) Such much nonsense.

-too far going conclusions made from not really great examples/reasons (not sure of english word i should use) = much speaking and much much less clear motions from it

Okay, I don't know what you mean here. :p

So you're saying, you were silent because you're new? Even after various of us had said the more quiet types should be inspected since Mafia is more likely to stay silent and watch?It seems as if you merely target me to defend yourself because you have no better victim at hand. Your reasoning is bogus, AND the things you accuse me of others have done worse than me. (So why vote for me and not one of the others?) Seems like you skim over posts a lot. I'm not convinced.

Imo u did confusion, ur making it all the time, blaming others basing on examples going from nearly nowhere to nowhere.

"I gave clear reasons which a handful agreed with. You are the most Mafia-esque around." that is what you think, others got lost in this web of bs. And i answered you, i was silent and i didn't vote cuz bit unknowledge of game rules. Now im in fucking charge. How should i defend other way? Maybe by starting lying to you? Cuz those were reasons of my silence

"Even after various of us had said the more quiet types should be inspected since Mafia is more likely to stay silent and watch?" Look @ my first post I said the same, and? You thing id make evidence against myself? I was not sure about those action things, about voting way and about the way people search the mafia. I was silent to not take part till I understand wtf for 100% to not bungle anything. Yes. But now I will be no longer "silent mouse", and u made myself very very opponent to you.

"It seems as if you merely target me to defend yourself because you have no better victim at hand." Indeed, i was about voting for you 1st day but resigned, it was too early for me to blame somebody having not much surety about his fault, loosing innocent is very harmful for us all. (ofc not mafia)

"Seems like you skim over posts a lot." Or maybe I'm collecting evidences about people, to get few good reasons, to call him mafia, before showing my cards to publicity? So he has least chance of defence? So he needs to answer really much really hard questions? Or maybe i do not read anything, just spending a day with ffox opened on this card just so epople think i care? Catch me if u can

yeah I posted once, I'm visiting this place few times a day and checking what do people say. Tinki has 6 votes, mine will not chnage anything for now....

- For me this really looks a bit like you jumped in for tinki, since your vote has changed a lot on his lynch, instead of making it only one thrilling last minute vote missing, you pretty much left the air out of it. Taken a possible disagreement from you about the way and purpose from lynching tinki, its still that telling "your vote won't change anything"(but an F3 would?) was nonsense. Such things can happen sometimes, tho; still it looks too much like a distracting maneuver for me to reason an investigative vote on you.

Daemon told me that Mafia players just counter vote. They give reasons that could seem logical but aren't. As hakugei himself pointed out, your reason could apply on yourself and many others. Including me.

The fact that you are silently watching, only responding when being pressured and merely counter vote. Makes me vote against you. F1 Phoenix Either you are scum or you are a human, that's being useless. But as to me, you won't do good this game. Unless you've have like the superb NTA. In that case, a declaration of your role might convince me otherwise. However, if that one is truly the good one. You'll die by the BBB.

Anyway I have 5 or 6 f1 on me, tho i said truth (but yes attacking haku was too fast and could make me looking like defending of all costs, like i am mafia), seem like im out cause im not able to defend me and describe my silence or holding vote on tinki(if you wait for more excuses form me - u will not get it, my statement was clear - i hold up until i get into the game rulez, those oficial one and those @ discussion)

ur actually lynching innocent, gj haku, I hope you will be first mafia they will kill

@mind I may tell you my role if it is not against rules, tho I smelled in the game storyline, so main healer, great shaman of beastors, teh human friend was called Phoenix mb that will guide youI realised that too, so I will die soon by mafia, if I will successfully defend myself. And yeh, i play this game bad but I do it.. 1st time (somehow that could defend me, it is linked to my silence action) :(

so I can already thank for game and bb, lynch or death thats the stuff

your vote on Haku reeks of a mafia lashing out at the person attacking them. like Haku said, only Mafia counter vote. Unless the persons reasons for votes is pure BS. which Haku's wasnt.

My Vote will be staying on you. the only way i see to save yourself is to role claim. because i really dont like the way you play. all you do is spread confusion and stay quiet. if your indeed a townie, your a townie not worth having.

@mind I may tell you my role if it is not against rules, tho I smelled in the game storyline, so main healer, great shaman of beastors, teh human friend was called Phoenix mb that will guide youI realised that too, so I will die soon by mafia, if I will successfully defend myself. And yeh, i play this game bad but I do it.. 1st time (somehow that could defend me, it is linked to my silence action) :(

this is meant to be a role claim? or a hint at what your role is? either way i want confirmation of your role

so come on Phoe your role is the only thing that that will save you, and notice this, when he had a chance to role claim, rather than role claim fully, which would spread less confusion, he only hints at it. maybe because he dosent know what townie roles are like?

I'm healer (shaman) in game and yes im noob in this game (thats why i was fucking silent before), i just wanted to try...

And after i got back from 12h work i see WTF 4 VOTES ON ME?! WHY HOW WTF?! And i was not calm then, tired and explosive and totally mad, and those emotions made me making those confusing and pointles posts. When adding my lack of experience, thats how i lost the game.

so to save yours chance t get mafia and still kick dumb townie out of community i may always "break my arm" and leave as Lucki did, @ night knived by haku

@mind I may tell you my role if it is not against rules, tho I smelled in the game storyline, so main healer, great shaman of beastors, teh human friend was called Phoenix mb that will guide youI realised that too, so I will die soon by mafia, if I will successfully defend myself. And yeh, i play this game bad but I do it.. 1st time (somehow that could defend me, it is linked to my silence action) :(

No healer, would confirm there a healer, they would create a believable yet not so important role.

I'm afraid i was not the main healer and i must wait till my master dies (thats what i get as reply when asked for rules, more direclty: asked how and what action i can make)

PS: Damn i made quite a drama, lol xD And sorry if i wasted so important rule as healer (just realised i would be able to save people, when master dies, im lynched, nobody will be able to?

PS: Moxy dont defend me as they said, im crap player so lets get drama over, even if i'd calm down (what would really happen) and defend(what i actually cant do by saing truth), im now good target for mafia so im dead anyway

dont think for one second i wanted to defend you, in your previous post all you said was that your a healer, not a back up healer, when asked who you healed you suddenly add to it!

care to explain why you didnt tell us the back up bit to begin with?

My vote is staying where it is.

could you... ekm... explain? :D

wtf, surley even u can get that. when a townie revel a role, they would kinda know what their full role is, and tell us it the first time. they wouldnt have to add to it after someone asks them to confirm how they used their role at night to telling the townies that actualy why he cant use it cause they are only back up!

Phoenix decides that Newerth is too cruel a world. Tears were blurring his vision as he was approaching the mighty Kongor. As the monster was gulping him, a brief, last thought went through his head: Dobre apetytu!

Phoenix, Human Chaplain Student, has committed suicide.

It's NIGHT 3, until Thursday, Feb 16th, 21:00 GMT. Please send in the targets. Don't forget to sign your e-mail and to make sure the word "Mafia" is in your message subject. If you have any questions, e-mail them to me asap.

Tip of the day:Break any rule (like quoting/pretending to quote moderator's email) and you're out.

Just as thing were beginning to match the expectations of the peaceful souls stricken in the in a place they loved, along those they hate, a ray of sunshine lifted their spirits a little: in the morning, everyone was alive and well.

Tip of the day:The days don’t last EXACTLY until the specified time. They will be closed as soon as possible AFTER that. May be a few seconds, minutes, maybe even an hour. Until the mod closes the thread, any and all expressed votes count. Unlike the days, the nights DO end at specified deadline, and since targets need to be processed, the days will begin a bit later.

Unfortunately I missed my chance to answer yesterdays posts timely and now a lot of that is outdated.

I'm glad Moxy finally understood what I (or, actually, Pizlo) was trying to say during day 1 (revealing what happened to you during the night MIGHT be beneficial).

I was also amazed how people accused Dervun and Valli nearly implying no one knew about the chances the vote manipulation is in the game. Actually during day 1 I already wrote a list of 4-5 blocking/limiting/enforcing NTA abilities which be in the game, including the vote manipulation.

I think it should be forbidden to constantly refer to the previous games, but since it is not forbidden... Anyone who's not too lazy can go and read the roles which were used in the first mafia game. That would really answer a lot of the questions asked during the day two. For example, I just counted there was only 1 (!) player in the first game who had no active NTA ability at once (that was a backup healer, hey Phoe). Apart from the backup healer, there were 3 one-time abilities, 5 limited reusable abilities and 13 unlimited reusable abilities. Also good guys had "bad" abilities and bad guys had "good" (for bad purpose tho) abilities.

Now these facts are quite useless in my opinion, but once again it was just too hilarious seeing so many people arguing about these basic things during the previous day.

yeah apart from the displeased howling of a beast at my door kinda indicatres that it isnt townie, i would only think only the BBB would be displeased with the town that the monks and peaceful beasts have created.

There are many other ways to tamper with NTA abilities. For example, if Moxy intended to kill someone, then he'd not be able to perform the kill since he got pretty much immobed in his room. I guess that was his intention though, otherwise he would have stayed silent.

There are many other ways to tamper with NTA abilities. For example, if Moxy intended to kill someone, then he'd not be able to perform the kill since he got pretty much immobed in his room. I guess that was his intention though, otherwise he would have stayed silent.

Also, what if Moxy was the one to be killed. And the blocked door saved him?

Exactly my thought. A blocked door is a rather peaceful way to prevent someone from leaving his room, hence it doesn't really go along with the growls and peaceful doesn't fit the BBB. Also i associate growls with threatening, but why threaten someone into not leaving if he can't anyways?

Would someone still get that message that moxy got, if they didn't want to leave the room? If they had no action to leave. So if they get blocked in a way, and they don't try to leave do they still would get that? Or is it only when they try to leave the room?

Now, while I agree that NTAs could've stopped the death of someone last night I also believe that this could've been done by the Mafia's incompetence.

Remember first night? Nobody died. Chances are slim that NTAs could've saved the one who was supposed to die. Also, remember tinki? He was almost fully inactive here. Now again tinki is inactive and nobody died. Coincidence? Perhaps.

Now, I am not pushing for a lynch but I do believe that some pressure on him would be required. With all this being said:

yeah apart from the displeased howling of a beast at my door kinda indicatres that it isnt townie

Does it? Story wise the killers are human

you reading that wrong mind. Human xneophobic (which means an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange) Killers, mean that they are beasts with an unreasonable fear of humans so kill them off.

not sure if you trying to play this out to make me look guilty of something, or you just interperated it wrong, but the killers are beasts, who disagree with humans and beasts living together in peace.

i actually the chance of someones NTA saving someone on day one was alright, in relation to previous games-Lucky Shaman-Phoenix backup Chaplin>>>means theres a Chaplin out there with NTA to save someone-?mystery shaman? 2 chaplains whats the odds of 2 shamans?-and if we were to presume moxy was locked inside, that has potential to equal 5 ways to stop someone dieing at night.

unless your an townie investigator or townie spy, you will never know fully what type of nta people there is out there. plus Mafia still need to think up a role claim, what you doing is figuring out what there is out there, so that the mafia dont role claim a role that a townie already has.

what you are doing is litsting possible role claims that mafia could borrow to use.

unless your an townie investigator or townie spy, you will never know fully what type of nta people there is out there. plus Mafia still need to think up a role claim, what you doing is figuring out what there is out there, so that the mafia dont role claim a role that a townie already has.

what you are doing is litsting possible role claims that mafia could borrow to use.

its still a theory though, anyone can claim to be a healer, which is suicidal, looking at it, if you don't die during the night from the mafia, the next morning everyone becomes suspicious and lynches you for not dieing.

Do you really think there is someone stupid enough out here to role claim the healer, plus, if they do, do you not think, that if its in the game, the townie spy wont look at the healer house to see if someone enters it to kill them?

unless your an townie investigator or townie spy, you will never know fully what type of nta people there is out there. plus Mafia still need to think up a role claim, what you doing is figuring out what there is out there, so that the mafia dont role claim a role that a townie already has.

what you are doing is litsting possible role claims that mafia could borrow to use.

its still a theory though, anyone can claim to be a healer, which is suicidal, looking at it, if you don't die during the night from the mafia, the next morning everyone becomes suspicious and lynches you for not dieing.

hence why i voted for Pheonix the previous day, i thought he was clutching at the straws and said hes a healer for the sake of it just to prolonged his life. But it seems he didn't have the advantage you, I, Hakugei, mind and co. have, of playing longer and knowing more, likely, roles that a player could have. As Hakugei said

Tell me, Feathers, how does it help us innocents?Of course the Mafia could come up with these theories themselves, but what if they don't? You just helped them.Or...perhaps you're Mafia and trying to use the day subtly to discuss with your fellow kind.After all, who is going to suspect you for random theories? ;)

yeah apart from the displeased howling of a beast at my door kinda indicatres that it isnt townie

Does it? Story wise the killers are human

you reading that wrong mind. Human xneophobic (which means an unreasonable fear of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange) Killers, mean that they are beasts with an unreasonable fear of humans so kill them off.

Dang, I got pwned by English. Deamon will have to use easy English on me as well.

I just thought that it meant that the humans have an intense dislike towards people from other countries (race in this case).

I'd like to do something. But I'm standing with my back against a wall. I'd only help thugs

i alreayd asked this once, and i know you ignored it, and i dont know why, but can i ask, did anything happen to you during any nights haku?

Because I dislike giving out info that potentially may help the Mafia more than the innocents.You'll notice in every single of my previous games (either side :p), I did not give out info unless necessary or reasonable.Regardless how precious or harmless my role is to the Mafia's hit-list; I act the same in every game just so the Mafia can't read me. Believe it or not, but I don't like dying during the night. :roll:

actualy no. i was just wandering. there was a reason but i wont go into it because as you said, i dont want to give out unreasonable info to the mafia. but just trust there is a reason which could possible lead to mafia, or something else.

really? cause all i see is you counter voting after he voiting for you, and his play style is nothing like phoenix. he said that he had reasons, i think we should hear these reasons before we make any rash judgements.

really? cause all i see is you counter voting after he voiting for you, and his play style is nothing like phoenix. he said that he had reasons, i think we should hear these reasons before we make any rash judgements.

I vote for Robin, because why would a non BBB want to kill me because I know too much?

i know enough too kill you and no i don't need to be BBB you have really loose tongue this is enoughts speaking :evil: now you reminding?

You know what you are implying here: You imply that we both talked about our part in the game, you know that this would be a kick out of the game for us both, are you mad? With such implications you just fuck up the whole game. Do you actually get the point of the game?

i actually the chance of someones NTA saving someone on day one was alright, in relation to previous games-Lucky Shaman-Phoenix backup Chaplin>>>means theres a Chaplin out there with NTA to save someone-?mystery shaman? 2 chaplains whats the odds of 2 shamans?-and if we were to presume moxy was locked inside, that has potential to equal 5 ways to stop someone dieing at night.

ok, now 2 are dead so leaves 2/3 people keeping us alive

First of all, the Lucky's title of "Air Shaman" means completely nothing to us . It might as well mean we still have "Water Shaman", "Fire Shaman", "Earth Shaman" and a some more types of shamans present here.

If anything, look at Daemons picture of our room. It shows 3 shamans and 3 chaplains sitting in a room. So that means we might as well have 6 healers here. Or any other amount. And we might have plenty of shamans who do not actually heal in the explicit meaning of this word. Of course, this paragraph I just wrote is bullshit, as is the attempt to make far stretched assumptions about the present roles based on what we know.

And hence I totally do not understand why Hakugei and Moxy took the bait and spent a lot of time to put Feathers in a bad light:

To back up my point even more, here are the possible situations that MIGHT have saved someone who would otherwise die this night. We don't know about our current situation much, however all of us are aware of the past glory stories and the real roles our ancestors had those days, so we'll take them as an example:1. May be the victim received a one-time shield buff from someone.2. May be the attacker got immobilized.3. May be the victim teleported out to some other room for a brief moment.4. May be the victim got healed by a healer.5. May be the victim got healed by one-time heal buff.

Still leaving the options for some new skill developments we are not yet aware. One of them being the fact that Moxy might have been saved by being locked in his room (i.e. the immob that works both as limiting and protecting item, i.e. Moxy could have been either an offender or victim).

As I said I do see any viable explanation of what Moxy and Hakugei are doing here. The things which are being said today together with things which happened previous day raise some concerns about them.

But at the same time there's also Robin5Hood who suddenly jumped in saying weird things, and for now he looks even worse. So F1 Robin5Hood, I want explanations about you and Valli.

My issue, Igors, is that Feathers keeps saying random stuff which makes no sense if he had actually read everything else or does not benefit anyone.I merely want to know why; second time now.

As for Robin; I'm waiting until Daemon sees this before I even bother with him. Breaking rules is bad, but even if he didn't in the end, lying like that does not put him in a good light. So either he's Mafia and has nothing to fear, or he's a very pointlessly confusing innocent.

This game will not go anywhere unless we make the quiet ones talk or we get rid of them. Also, whatever happened to Tjens?

And I also think that the people who voted on Phoenix should also have more pressure on them. He may have killed himself but I do believe that it is highly probable that the Mafia was trying to get rid of him aswell.

This game will not go anywhere unless we make the quiet ones talk or we get rid of them. Also, whatever happened to Tjens?

And I also think that the people who voted on Phoenix should also have more pressure on them. He may have killed himself but I do believe that it is highly probable that the Mafia was trying to get rid of him aswell.

There's just one problem. Those people you mentioned in your second paragraph were doing the thing you suggested in your first paragraph.

But yes, there's some controversy in it. Makes me want to lynch Robin5hood and not do it at the same time.

i think so too, the problem is that everyone on that list have a genuine reason to vote for pheonix because of the way he was playing. :( i believe anyway. because phoenix was playing really rubbish. and not good for townie, the same with robin here.

i'm not inactive as information i'm just reading what your writing before i post something stupid again and last day ended because of phoenix broke rule so i didn't came to post

oh and nice vote robin lol

so you admit that your hiding in the shadows reading not helping to find mafia? i know this is ur first game but at least me haku and mind, properly the most vets in this game, have told you that staying silent only help mafia, and reading but not partiicapating is classic maffia behaviour for trying to stay under the radar?

All right. I‘m going to go out on a limb and post my thoughts. So the mafia has getting ahead and we need to even the odds. I believe we now have some clues to act on. I estimated there should still be 8 mafia members out there (assuming the mafia was 1/3 of total players).

So let‘s begin. Let's take a look at the two people who have been focused on in the day-time votes. First it's Tinki. Tinki isn't very active in posting and started of by voting for Hakugei, and had apparently no idea why he was doing so. Reading through his posts I don't think that Tinki is mafia. Why? I would think the mafia comes up with some kind of starting strategy the first night, when they're allowed to communicate via e-mail. I haven't played this game before so I don't know, but that‘s what I'd guess. I would expect experienced players to educate the newbies on the game, and how they should behave. It's unlikely that they'd want Tinki to vote for someone without stating any reason (and then withdrawing the vote and still not stating any reason), because it's not likely to gather much support. Furthermore, that behavior is unusual and draws attention. I find it more likely that this can be explained with Tinki's lack of experience of this game. I won't rule anything out and I'm certainly not vouching for anyone.

But let's suppose Tinki is a townie. The mafia takes advantage of his strange behavior, because it's unusual and suspicious, and starts throwing votes at Tinki. However, with it being the first day and not wanting to compromise themselves just yet, they stop a couple of votes short of lynching Tinki, hoping some of the townies finish it up and take the blame. I doubt all of the 6 votes for Tinki would be from mafia, in this case, and if Tinki is mafia, the whole argument falls apart. But it does leave us with 6 people we should keep an eye on.

Those people are: Arjey, Moxy, Mind, Envious, Hakugei and Faun.

Let's move on. The second person that was focused on was Phoenix. And now we know Phoenix was a townie. Much like Tinki, he didn't post a lot and was also playing for his first time. According to Hakugei, the reason he was being voted for was that he was very quiet until his name got mentioned, after which he posted something silly and wasn't heard from again. So here we go, people ate it up and started throwing in their votes as well.

This is important; take a look at who had voted for Phoenix: Faun, Envious, Moxy, Mopok, Hakugei, Mind, Phoenix and Feathers.

If I were to speculate even further, I'd say the mafia's plan was to start applying pressure on some of the obscure townies, because it's easier to get away with it. They need a few votes and ask for a role declaration. In case the role declaration is believable and the player as well, they're forced to back down, but they know the role and can decide who's dangerous and who isn't. If the role declaration on the other hand isn't believable they go ahead and push for a lynch. Note how quickly Phoenix discredited once he posted his role (before the quote).

That leaves me with the following players as highly dubious: HakugeiMoxyMindFaunEnvious

Here are a few things I've noticed in the discussion we've been having on those votes.

Frankly, accusing the victim's last vote target on the second day is such a banal thing to do.There are so many targets, why would anyone even risk that. From what I've seen, Mafia tends to pick off the quiet targets right at the beginning (to avoid being caught early on, while also they have no reason to feel threatened by random banter from the first day).

As a result, Valli is more suspicious than Mind is.

Having that said, F1 Phoenix.He was more quiet than Lucky (whereas Lucky had a genuine excuse), but he was not inactive either - as soon as he was mentioned, he made sure to let everyone know he's here (very quickly at that). He showed no interest in putting effort into gathering info or spotting Mafia - quietly watching from the shadows as the town kills off one another. I have no evidence against him, but that's classic Mafia style.

On to the votes for Phoenix. Hakugei says the mafia picks off the quiet targets in the beginning, that‘s also who he's focusing on now. Just wanted to point that out. I'm mostly interested in how quick these players were to cast their vote. Soon after, Faun followed:

yeah I posted once, I'm visiting this place few times a day and checking what do people say. Tinki has 6 votes, mine will not chnage anything for now....

- For me this really looks a bit like you jumped in for tinki, since your vote has changed a lot on his lynch, instead of making it only one thrilling last minute vote missing, you pretty much left the air out of it. Taken a possible disagreement from you about the way and purpose from lynching tinki, its still that telling "your vote won't change anything"(but an F3 would?) was nonsense. Such things can happen sometimes, tho; still it looks too much like a distracting maneuver for me to reason an investigative vote on you.

From what Haku has said along with the others, I have to agree. He DID say himself that he checked the forums a lot and was interested in the game, so I'm expecting him to post why he isn't mafia in the near future (1 day).F1 Phoenix

Daemon told me that Mafia players just counter vote. They give reasons that could seem logical but aren't. As hakugei himself pointed out, your reason could apply on yourself and many others. Including me.

The fact that you are silently watching, only responding when being pressured and merely counter vote. Makes me vote against you. F1 Phoenix Either you are scum or you are a human, that's being useless. But as to me, you won't do good this game. Unless you've have like the superb NTA. In that case, a declaration of your role might convince me otherwise. However, if that one is truly the good one. You'll die by the BBB.

your vote on Haku reeks of a mafia lashing out at the person attacking them. like Haku said, only Mafia counter vote. Unless the persons reasons for votes is pure BS. which Haku's wasnt.

My Vote will be staying on you. the only way i see to save yourself is to role claim. because i really dont like the way you play. all you do is spread confusion and stay quiet. if your indeed a townie, your a townie not worth having.

----

I'll be voting F1 Hakugei. He seems to be by far the most devious player here and the most dangerous.

Well I want to say that I was pretty convinced that Tinki and Phoenix are BBB, chasing Phoenix into suicide and finding hes a townie left me pretty much clueless tbh. Also I got a little more to do on my hands in rl, so I got a lot to do to keep up with the proceedings in this thread.

I like to point out that this post was written before Skuggi posted his!

to mopok

sigh, seriously i thought that u might have a cause to be mafia before, that post just put you close to the top of the list, i mentioned why this was a mafia block. i told you and explaind this to mind. do i have to do it again?

The blocker was an agressive and not pleased. the only person whouldnt be pleased would be the BBB. i explained this. why are you so trying to twist this into making it out for me to be mafia? oh i know cause you could be a member of the BBB. see, this isnt the only time u have had questionable behaviour, first of your only quiet, and you never look into things your self, your quite and then come out of the woodwork to agree with someone take this post here:

Wowow thats a lot of posts to read xD, well sorry got on late plus pacific time. From what i read i just see people laying down buffs like there is no tommorow, double bluff here, triple over there, who knows maybe theres a quadruple bluff xD, there was for sure some people i don't know well in this and they jumped out quickly to be suspicious.

gonna have to read those posts again and make a decision, after all one of my first games of mafia playing. I do agree with the discussion that lynching early has a chance of getting an innocent... but really these people are bringing it up so much... it very well be one of those bluffs, they just dont want that small chance of hitting the mafia to catch them in the ass.

So,lets go with F1 Hakugei

This came on page 10, 3 days after day one had started! where were you for thoes 3 days? Busy? and finally enough your first post is to jump onto the bandwagon of voiting for haku.

This is ridiculous, we should really not get in to that type of stuff at any time, when we have this time to elaborate on other subjects. And yes with what lucky said, if you guys keep bickering, it makes everyone else who isn't in the argument the ability to slip back into silence without having any suspicion laid on them.

funny enough this is what you do, again, no insights, no talk about who you think is supicious, just lying low, making posts every now and then to make people think your particiapating. this was only your 3rd or 4th post in 4 days...

I agree with pho, he said he was reading and looking at people, but he hardly posted anything what so ever it was a very quick jump in jump out moment where he avoided any spotlight when his name was mentioned the first time.

here again rather than bringing anything to the table, you go along and agree with the majority of what people are saying, after comming out of the wood work after being silent again for a while. feb 13th, your previous post was on feb 11th at 5 in the morning, so u nearly went 2 whole days without even posting here, exatcly what are you brining to the table here?

I also believe valli for now xD right now the matter at hand is pho. He is on the hot spot and if he is truly reading the forums he will see this.. if we do lynch him. I don't see to big of a harm. He is not pushing anyone for the townies and he is just hiding from the spotlight. So he very well could be a mafia. So i am gonna go with these guys on this one. He fits the criteria very nicely for being mafia

F1 Phoenix

Now heres something interesting, ill give u credit its the same day as your last post, but low and behold its agreenign nad voting for the person that is in the spotlight at the moment, you did it with haku and know your doing it with phoenix, i smell bandwaggoning,

I was thinking that pho was very suspicious right from his first posts.

this is funny, if you thought this why did you wait until the majority of us was attacking phoe before mentioning this? why didnt you mention this before? you dont post again after this, i grant you the day ended early but still, it looks supcious if you add it all up.

Would someone still get that message that moxy got, if they didn't want to leave the room? If they had no action to leave. So if they get blocked in a way, and they don't try to leave do they still would get that? Or is it only when they try to leave the room?

Also good point mind that in the story it says they are human, doubt a human would growl, unless some scary sounding snoring :P

Once again agreeing with someone without bringing something to the table, again i ask what have you done for the townie in this game so far? you even go as far as agreeing with mind when he misread the post, did you misread the post to... or did you just decide to agree with mind because it put me in a bad light? any excuse to kill of a townie right?

and then when things go quioet after we discussed it and most people, for now, agree mioght think it was mafia that blocked me, you bring it up again, rsitarting something other people have been saying, once again in all your posts you have not brought on bit of information to the table you have only agreed with the people in order to bandwagon agaisnt whoever is in the spotlight at the time, all this behaviour to me screams mafia nad which is why im voiting

Well, it seems tinki is just not of interest to anyone right now. Since votes are powerful when there are many I will F2 tinki for now and will be focusing more on Hakugai. Then I will decide if pushing for a role declaration/lynch on him seems like the right thing to do.

It's hard to figure out Mafia this game, because some new players come up with strange actions, immediately drawing attention towards them, making it easy for Mafia to vote them out. First day it was Tinki, whom i expect (not final) to be Town, and Phoenix, now it's Robin. Tinki escaped the lynch, Phoenix wasn't as lucky. If Robin weren't a noob, he'd be my priority target now, as any player can't be more suspicious than him. He admitted having lied after all, doesn't matter how tiny it was. Some new players are just unpredicable, making it impossible to read them. If Robin is Town, which i kinda doubt, he gave us an unsolvable riddle.

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Mind, last day you ignored my post in which i quoted this sentence of you. You were implying something awfully wrong, i want to know why.

For now, my vote goes to Envious: F1 EnviousYour posts are of very little substance and you seem to be very sure about what you are doing. Only Mafia can be sure, because they have more information. Let me requote the post in which you voted for Tinki:

In my opinion. WWs you have to stop covering up for each other. This isn't WW vs the mafia vs townies …

I'm no longer doing that. F1 Tinki

If you didn't vote on Tinki at first because you didn't want to lynch your clanmate, it is your right. But in fact, you openly chose not to vote, adding reasons to your decision. They might have been a quite incomprehensible, but they were reasons nonetheless. Contrary to that, once you joined the bandwagon against Tinki your only reason was that Mind convinced you.

Sorry, had a double quote in my post, again same content, easier to read:

That's a nice summary Skuggi!

It's hard to figure out Mafia this game, because some new players come up with strange actions, immediately drawing attention towards them, making it easy for Mafia to vote them out. First day it was Tinki, whom i expect (not final) to be Town, and Phoenix, now it's Robin. Tinki escaped the lynch, Phoenix wasn't as lucky. If Robin weren't a noob, he'd be my priority target now, as any player can't be more suspicious than him. He admitted having lied after all, doesn't matter how tiny it was. Some new players are just unpredicable, making it impossible to read them. If Robin is Town, which i kinda doubt, he gave us an unsolvable riddle.

Yeah, one vote against me. I'm most definitely going to murder him asap. He didn't like my comments. His vote was based on no evidence what so ever. He merely voted for me because I was aggressive against him. I surely had to get ridden of him.

Valli that was a joke.

Mind, last day you ignored my post in which i quoted this sentence of you. You were implying something awfully wrong, i want to know why.

For now, my vote goes to Envious: F1 EnviousYour posts are of very little substance and you seem to be very sure about what you are doing. Only Mafia can be sure, because they have more information. Let me requote the post in which you voted for Tinki:

In my opinion. WWs you have to stop covering up for each other. This isn't WW vs the mafia vs townies …

I'm no longer doing that. F1 Tinki

If you didn't vote on Tinki at first because you didn't want to lynch your clanmate, it is your right. But in fact, you openly chose not to vote, adding reasons to your decision. They might have been a quite incomprehensible, but they were reasons nonetheless. Contrary to that, once you joined the bandwagon against Tinki your only reason was that Mind convinced you.

Reading through his posts I don't think that Tinki is mafia. Why? I would think the mafia comes up with some kind of starting strategy the first night, when they're allowed to communicate via e-mail. I haven't played this game before so I don't know, but that‘s what I'd guess. I would expect experienced players to educate the newbies on the game, and how they should behave. It's unlikely that they'd want Tinki to vote for someone without stating any reason (and then withdrawing the vote and still not stating any reason), because it's not likely to gather much support. Furthermore, that behavior is unusual and draws attention. I find it more likely that this can be explained with Tinki's lack of experience of this game.

It is indeed true that the Mafia will have some sort of plan; the extent of how deep their plan is depends on its members. I can tell you that the two times I was Mafia, we didn't have any extraordinary plans and just went with the flow. But this whole paragraph is quite contradicting; you say you'd expect Mafia to be clever and thus not make mistakes like this, but then you shrug off Tinki's behavior as merely being a mistake. What makes you so sure he didn't do the mistake for the Mafia side then? Nonetheless, as I had already said yesterday (game day), I myself am unsure at this point to which side he might indeed be on and he's bound to make more mistakes (which should show more clearly which side he's on).

However, with it being the first day and not wanting to compromise themselves just yet, they stop a couple of votes short of lynching Tinki, hoping some of the townies finish it up and take the blame.

Also possible, but still a little contradicting - you can't push for a lynch and at the same time back off as if nothing happened (so that plan would be very inefficient). Once you push, you're on the list - evidentally, otherwise you wouldn't be voting for me.

Let's move on. The second person that was focused on was Phoenix. And now we know Phoenix was a townie. Much like Tinki, he didn't post a lot and was also playing for his first time. According to Hakugei, the reason he was being voted for was that he was very quiet until his name got mentioned, after which he posted something silly and wasn't heard from again.

If I were to speculate even further, I'd say the mafia's plan was to start applying pressure on some of the obscure townies, because it's easier to get away with it. They need a few votes and ask for a role declaration. In case the role declaration is believable and the player as well, they're forced to back down, but they know the role and can decide who's dangerous and who isn't. If the role declaration on the other hand isn't believable they go ahead and push for a lynch. Note how quickly Phoenix discredited once he posted his role (before the quote).

Sounds like a solid theory. But I would like you to take note that I didn't discredit his role claim, so if that indeed "was the plan", then I don't fall into it. Yet, you vote for me.

Hakugei says the mafia picks off the quiet targets in the beginning, that‘s also who he's focusing on now. Just wanted to point that out. I'm mostly interested in how quick these players were to cast their vote.

To clarify for you, picks off the quiet targets at the beginning during the night; not the day. A day kill is all the same for them; it's the night that poses the threat of being watched while doing the killing (hence going for someone the investigators are less likely to have in their spotlight). While during the day, Mafia is more likely to sit back (but not exclusively). And thus, I go after either the quiet ones so they start participating (hoping Mafia will make mistakes, or innocents actually bother to pitch in) or the really shady ones. Again, tell me I'm wrong for waking up the sleepers.

I'm not sure if I should be happy or very very scared that so many are agreeing with me.

Well, I certainly find it curious... and so does Mind:

My quote pretty much sums up my feelings about the bandwagon; it was obvious that so many agreeing so easily with me would become a problem for me in the future. But with all your "Mafia would cleverly plan things" arguments in the above half of your post kind of contradicts such an obvious and stupid thing to do - namely all jump together at my will. So, are Mafia clever or stupid? ;) It's a win-win for Mafia; lynch Phoenix and implicate Hakugei in the process.

I'll be voting F1 Hakugei. He seems to be by far the most devious player here and the most dangerous

Difficult to disagree with that; that's probably why Mind is so obsessed with me.

Now the most important question: Do you truly think I was wrong for voting for Tinki and Phoenix, Skuggi? Can you honestly (if you are actually a townie, of course) say that me trying to get activity and answers from the lesser seen players is Mafia behavior? They acted strange, they acted weird; they were suspicious. In retrospect we now know Phoenix was innocent. And, for the record, I didn't even lynch either of them. :roll:

My posts come at odd times moxy because i live on the other side of the world as you. As for band wagoning, what am to make of this when you constantly agree with others, and so do many others. You said earlier today you agree with igors is that supposed to mean i am supposed to f1 you now too? And then with skuggi's proof that you also jumped on in with the other people to vote off pho. So you are in NO position to bring agreeing with someone into it, plus you have played this game before i am guessing. I am new to this i might as well try to find out how people's behaviors work. Still trying to learn the steps to the game. And i have posted nearly every day. Just seems like they are spread apart because i am at 9-10 hours behind you. So i often miss the starts/ end of days.

Not like anyone in this game isn't jumping on to others arguments. As for not saying what i said earlier. New to this game, what am to think to be scared when pho said something he got attacked, so what to say if i do i will get attacked plus you obviously tried to leave your room in the night if you could not get out. What were you trying to do? Instantly accusing someone as to being mafia also. And saying that the guy blocking my door has to be mafia, not true. You have no idea to who it could be you just have a hunch and growling. Who's to say that a fricken guy is protecting you, and there only way is by being there blocking the door themselves.

All right. I‘m going to go out on a limb and post my thoughts. So the mafia has getting ahead and we need to even the odds. I believe we now have some clues to act on. I estimated there should still be 8 mafia members out there (assuming the mafia was 1/3 of total players).

But let's suppose Tinki is a townie. The mafia takes advantage of his strange behavior, because it's unusual and suspicious, and starts throwing votes at Tinki. However, with it being the first day and not wanting to compromise themselves just yet, they stop a couple of votes short of lynching Tinki, hoping some of the townies finish it up and take the blame. I doubt all of the 6 votes for Tinki would be from mafia, in this case, and if Tinki is mafia, the whole argument falls apart. But it does leave us with 6 people we should keep an eye on.

Let's move on. The second person that was focused on was Phoenix. And now we know Phoenix was a townie. Much like Tinki, he didn't post a lot and was also playing for his first time. According to Hakugei, the reason he was being voted for was that he was very quiet until his name got mentioned, after which he posted something silly and wasn't heard from again. So here we go, people ate it up and started throwing in their votes as well.

This is important; take a look at who had voted for Phoenix: Faun, Envious, Moxy, Mopok, Hakugei, Mind, Phoenix and Feathers

If I were to speculate even further, I'd say the mafia's plan was to start applying pressure on some of the obscure townies, because it's easier to get away with it. They need a few votes and ask for a role declaration. In case the role declaration is believable and the player as well, they're forced to back down, but they know the role and can decide who's dangerous and who isn't. If the role declaration on the other hand isn't believable they go ahead and push for a lynch. Note how quickly Phoenix discredited once he posted his role (before the quote)

I would like to argue this bit, he was pushed at least by me, because he was stupid and needed to add to his role claim after he already made it. Are you telling me? that a townie is allowed to not know what his role is at first time of asking? Seriously? Okay you make some good observations that I agree with even though my name is in there, but in this type of game, if you get your role claim wrong, if you are innocent, it’s going to make you look like mafia and you are going to get voted on. Mafia or townie.

Having read what faun and Haku have said i feel myself too really supicious of phoenix.

F1 Phoenix

Care to explain your actions phoe?

Come on, surley you can see that phoenix behaviour was the cause of this and not mafia twisitg things. Having said that, I would like to point out that mind myself and haku are one of the mnost active posters in the game. Of course we would post soon after!

your vote on Haku reeks of a mafia lashing out at the person attacking them. like Haku said, only Mafia counter vote. Unless the persons reasons for votes is pure BS. which Haku's wasnt.

My Vote will be staying on you. the only way i see to save yourself is to role claim. because i really dont like the way you play. all you do is spread confusion and stay quiet. if your indeed a townie, your a townie not worth having.

Confusion is only helpful for mafia, are you telling me we should keep someone in the game that help the mafia by spreading confusion? Really?

Day 1 starts with everyone checking in, casting random votes to get the game going. It's only normal some are a bit late. Hakugei didn't have that many votes on him at that time and he didn't even push against him. So basically i disagree with calling this bandwagoning. Since repeated bandwagoning and agreeing with others is the heart of your accusation, i don't really see the point of it.

My posts come at odd times moxy because i live on the other side of the world as you. As for band wagoning, what am to make of this when you constantly agree with others, and so do many others. You said earlier today you agree with igors is that supposed to mean i am supposed to f1 you now too?

i said i agree with what he posted, where did i bandwagon a vote with him?

Quote

And then with skuggi's proof that you also jumped on in with the other people to vote off pho. So you are in NO position to bring agreeing with someone into it, plus you have played this game before i am guessing. I am new to this i might as well try to find out how people's behaviors work. Still trying to learn the steps to the game. And i have posted nearly every day. Just seems like they are spread apart because i am at 9-10 hours behind you. So i often miss the starts/ end of days.

phoe didnt have enough votes to be killed of something haku posted, at the time of his death, and he was really supcious! come on what am meant to do, oh, phoe is supciious, buit because other people think so and have alreayd voted i cant becaus that would make me look bad. news flash its just the way the game is played.

Quote

Not like anyone in this game isn't jumping on to others arguments. As for not saying what i said earlier. New to this game, what am to think to be scared when pho said something he got attacked, so what to say if i do i will get attacked plus you obviously tried to leave your room in the night if you could not get out. What were you trying to do? Instantly accusing someone as to being mafia also. And saying that the guy blocking my door has to be mafia, not true. You have no idea to who it could be you just have a hunch and growling. Who's to say that a fricken guy is protecting you, and there only way is by being there blocking the door themselves.

lol, Twonies get most of their information from nta's blocking someone, and with the blocker sounded disgruntled, really sounds like a townie block to me!

A disgruntled beast sound could also just mean he was beast; and considering Lucky was a shaman (beast) it doesn't even have to mean that he was Mafia. Also, there is no guarantee that there was only one (namely the blocker) in front of your door. Why are you so obsessed with making it sound as if Mafia is after you? Trying to gain creditability as being a townie? "There was Mafia at my door, so clearly I am a good guy." Until we know who (all) was at your door and which side said blocker was on, I'm not falling for this innocence act.

A disgruntled beast sound could also just mean he was beast; and considering Lucky was a shaman (beast) it doesn't even have to mean that he was Mafia. Also, there is no guarantee that there was only one (namely the blocker) in front of your door. Why are you so obsessed with making it sound as if Mafia is after you? Trying to gain creditability as being a townie? "There was Mafia at my door, so clearly I am a good guy." Until we know who (all) was at your door and which side said blocker was on, I'm not falling for this innocence act.

You know what, actualy, im willing to give a role claim, if you want. if your willing to give me the 4 votes needed. and as it would be the first roel claim, you cant even say im borrwing of someone elses!

My posts come at odd times moxy because i live on the other side of the world as you.

they come at odd times, and that might be the case, because u live on the other side of the world, but its still posts only 1 at a time, its still a couple of days between posts, the fact u live in america dosent excuse how much time is experainced between posts, or how many times u agreed with what was being said rather than bring forward ur own ideas. just because you live the other side of the world, dosent mean u can agree with anything that is said and get away with it.

Just because you might have been blocked by a Townie doesn't mean you are a BBB member. So incase you want to declare your role to prove you are Town, don't. So far noone is really pressuring you and while a declaration might show your innocence it would give away too valuable information.

haha, okay, just gonna clarify, i think agreeing with people to get things to pass and such is a needed, not to mention most people jumped on with tinki and pho. The argument of agreeing with people is way to flawed to be used effectively. Very well could be a bluff, as to make people in to thinking he is townie by threatening of giving up his role, which he could even lie about

yeah because it would be a risk for a mafia to role claim when no one else has, so the mafia have no clue what the roles are like. to offer to role claim first would be sucide for mafia. im willing to go through with it, if ur willing to give thre votes.

wait why do you need votes? like a sacrifice, so you give your claim to give us evidence on a mafia to lynch them but you will probably get killed at the night? please explain if that is not what you meant, still learning this.

@Moxy, sorry man, but you voted on Tinki and Phoenix, it's not very likely I will follow your voting decission

so skuggi sulks in the darkness very rarely posting, then he makes 1 great post, and i agree he makes some excellent points, you agree with what he syas 100% and disregard anything i say...

Really?

ever thought he could be mafia twisting words around? i aint mafia nad willing to do anything to prove that.

Come on Moxy, I know that all ok, but as you said yourself those poinst are very very good, and I also said on the end of day 2, that we should take a look on the people which voted so far. I never said I won't follow your decision nor that I will follow skuggis, I am just reading through this, making up my mind and I try to get more information out of the post in here. Concluding from that:

I will either stay at my vote for robin, because he is behaving totally crazy ... Phoenix style and we all don'T need that...or will check on the others posted above which haven't said anything so far. Also the reasoning of those which were targeted by Skuggi will influence my decision.

No I am not the moron to go straight for something someone said without thinking about it.

they jumped on with their own reasons, you didnt, you have never brought ur own reasons, even now, you havent brought any of your own thoughts to the table, im still waiting on that.[/quote]

Maybe i don't think, but i am trying to bring thoughts up but they are said already. Plus most of the new guys haven't said to many thoughts, if any what is so different about me? Also i know your an experienced player at this, you know who to attack, to make them slip up, you want me to show my thoughts so you can make a move on it. And my opinion, WHAT about the people who havent even posted, think they have opinions, or are they even active, what do you make of that.

wait why do you need votes? like a sacrifice, so you give your claim to give us evidence on a mafia to lynch them but you will probably get killed at the night? please explain if that is not what you meant, still learning this.

in order to make a role claim, you need a certain ammount of votes onm you before your allowed to do so. as telling people what i know and what i leant from my nta, would be telling people what my role is i need the votes, plus as the first person making the claim no one can acuse me of makin it up from another townie role. as they dont know ehat the roles are like.

It is indeed true that the Mafia will have some sort of plan; the extent of how deep their plan is depends on its members. I can tell you that the two times I was Mafia, we didn't have any extraordinary plans and just went with the flow. But this whole paragraph is quite contradicting; you say you'd expect Mafia to be clever and thus not make mistakes like this, but then you shrug off Tinki's behavior as merely being a mistake. What makes you so sure he didn't do the mistake for the Mafia side then? Nonetheless, as I had already said yesterday (game day), I myself am unsure at this point to which side he might indeed be on and he's bound to make more mistakes (which should show more clearly which side he's on).

I can't talk from experience but the argument was that during the first night the mafia would come together and start scheming. That the vets would basically tell the newbies what to do (and what not to do). So my guess is, if he's a townie, he wouldn't have gotten any guidance like that and therefore more likely to make that mistake.

However, with it being the first day and not wanting to compromise themselves just yet, they stop a couple of votes short of lynching Tinki, hoping some of the townies finish it up and take the blame.

Also possible, but still a little contradicting - you can't push for a lynch and at the same time back off as if nothing happened (so that plan would be very inefficient). Once you push, you're on the list - evidentally, otherwise you wouldn't be voting for me.

True, it's a risk-benefit issue. But you've got to admit that the final deciding vote looks much more suspicious than the one in the middle.

My quote pretty much sums up my feelings about the bandwagon; it was obvious that so many agreeing so easily with me would become a problem for me in the future. But with all your "Mafia would cleverly plan things" arguments in the above half of your post kind of contradicts such an obvious and stupid thing to do - namely all jump together at my will. So, are Mafia clever or stupid? ;) It's a win-win for Mafia; lynch Phoenix and implicate Hakugei in the process.

The mafia have an obvious advantage over the townies, being able to communicate among themselves. It hasn't to do with clever or smart. And note that I posted some other names as well.

Now the most important question: Do you truly think I was wrong for voting for Tinki and Phoenix, Skuggi? Can you honestly (if you are actually a townie, of course) say that me trying to get activity and answers from the lesser seen players is Mafia behavior? They acted strange, they acted weird; they were suspicious. In retrospect we now know Phoenix was innocent. And, for the record, I didn't even lynch either of them. :roll:

I am concerned about you because when you called someone out by voting for them, pretty soon that person had 5 votes on him. I was unconvinced when you cast your vote for Phoenix. You certainly had a point (with him being quiet) but enough for me to cast a vote for him just on that basis, there are plenty of quiet people. I didn't say it at the time because, well, it looks bad stepping up for someone when everyone's shouting "Witch, witch". Maybe that was wrong. Nevertheless, it seems very curious that once you cast your vote the very same people that voted (with you) for Tinki on the previous day had thrown their vote in as well, accepting your argument wholeheartedly. The argument, again, was that he was being quiet. You may be persuasive, but it seemed more like a group working together, because that group included among others Moxy and Mind, who are along with you in Moxy's words: "properly the most vets in this game."

And it seems I'm not the only person who finds it odd. To me, generally speaking, you seem to be working against the townies. You aren't asking the right people the right questions, but instead focusing on others.

I didn't say it at the time because, well, it looks bad stepping up for someone when everyone's shouting "Witch, witch".

wait, so you decide, even though you though it was wrong of the time, to stay quiet and just let people do it, rather than speak your mind then? i aint accusing you of being mafia with this but cant you see where some townies might have a problem with that philosophy??

I can't talk from experience but the argument was that during the first night the mafia would come together and start scheming. That the vets would basically tell the newbies what to do (and what not to do). So my guess is, if he's a townie, he wouldn't have gotten any guidance like that and therefore more likely to make that mistake.

I can't disagree with that; one would indeed think that. I've had two experiences which were not the case, though. :p So I'm a little more biased towards thinking there are no solid plans at the beginning; yet a lot of trickery the longer it gets.

True, it's a risk-benefit issue. But you've got to admit that the final deciding vote looks much more suspicious than the one in the middle.

Yes, absolutely. Yet I was the first vote on Phoenix and Tinki. :mrgreen: So why am I the most suspicious one? :p It is true that I might be the fire-starter for the Mafia group, but in all honest - do you think I'd do something that obvious and borderline stupid? If you'd like, check the last two games I played (one on Newerth and one on Romafia) at which I was Mafia.

All in all, logic and reasoning should be observed by looking at the lethal votes.

I am concerned about you because when you called someone out by voting for them, pretty soon that person had 5 votes on him. I was unconvinced when you cast your vote for Phoenix. You certainly had a point (with him being quiet) but enough for me to cast a vote for him just on that basis, there are plenty of quiet people. I didn't say it at the time because, well, it looks bad stepping up for someone when everyone's shouting "Witch, witch". Maybe that was wrong.

And it seems I'm not the only person who finds it odd. To me, generally speaking, you seem to be working against the townies. You aren't asking the right people the right questions, but instead focusing on others.

There are too many players, I have to start somewhere. I can't vote on all the quiet ones at the same times nor can I jump around with weak votes (they wouldn't feel threatened enough to care -> remaining silent), and it seems like everyone is waiting for me to make the first step, like cowards. Now what if I had been quiet and not bothered to ever give up a meaningful vote; would anyone have "risked" being suspected like I am by now? You said it yourself, you didn't want to vote for nor against because you were afraid of the repercussions. As such, maybe you shouldn't be accusing me of doing what you weren't willing to do - namely find out who is who. Very convenient to wait in the shadows until a dangerous, potentially suspicious, target like myself pops up.

You said it yourself, you didn't want to vote for nor against because you were afraid of the repercussions. As such, maybe you shouldn't be accusing me of doing what you weren't willing to do - namely find out who is who. Very convenient to wait in the shadows until a dangerous, potentially suspicious, target like myself pops up.

for the sake of skuggi accusing me of mafia again, whateva, i have to agree with haku's pharagraph here.

I didn't say it at the time because, well, it looks bad stepping up for someone when everyone's shouting "Witch, witch".

wait, so you decide, even though you though it was wrong of the time, to stay quiet and just let people do it, rather than speak your mind then? i aint accusing you of being mafia with this but cant you see where some townies might have a problem with that philosophy??

If I were to speculate even further, I'd say the mafia's plan was to start applying pressure on some of the obscure townies, because it's easier to get away with it. They need a few votes and ask for a role declaration. In case the role declaration is believable and the player as well, they're forced to back down, but they know the role and can decide who's dangerous and who isn't. If the role declaration on the other hand isn't believable they go ahead and push for a lynch. Note how quickly Phoenix discredited once he posted his role (before the quote)

I would like to argue this bit, he was pushed at least by me, because he was stupid and needed to add to his role claim after he already made it. Are you telling me? that a townie is allowed to not know what his role is at first time of asking? Seriously? Okay you make some good observations that I agree with even though my name is in there, but in this type of game, if you get your role claim wrong, if you are innocent, it’s going to make you look like mafia and you are going to get voted on. Mafia or townie.

Sure, his role claim was a bit confusing and it's always possible to be smart in hindsight. But not for one second did you want anyone to believe him.

Having read what faun and Haku have said i feel myself too really supicious of phoenix.

F1 Phoenix

Care to explain your actions phoe?

Come on, surley you can see that phoenix behaviour was the cause of this and not mafia twisitg things. Having said that, I would like to point out that mind myself and haku are one of the mnost active posters in the game. Of course we would post soon after!

So you completely agreed with Hakugei's reasons for his vote and felt you needed to add you own?

your vote on Haku reeks of a mafia lashing out at the person attacking them. like Haku said, only Mafia counter vote. Unless the persons reasons for votes is pure BS. which Haku's wasnt.

My Vote will be staying on you. the only way i see to save yourself is to role claim. because i really dont like the way you play. all you do is spread confusion and stay quiet. if your indeed a townie, your a townie not worth having.

Confusion is only helpful for mafia, are you telling me we should keep someone in the game that help the mafia by spreading confusion? Really?

He was confusing, not spreading confusion. I find that lynching townies helps the mafia, and so does getting their roles out very soon.

That's what you deducted from my whole post... And yes, it does look bad to stand up for someone you don't know anything about. Is it surprising one would be discourage from doing so when he's completely new to the game?

You said it yourself, you didn't want to vote for nor against because you were afraid of the repercussions. As such, maybe you shouldn't be accusing me of doing what you weren't willing to do - namely find out who is who. Very convenient to wait in the shadows until a dangerous, potentially suspicious, target like myself pops up.

for the sake of skuggi accusing me of mafia again, whateva, i have to agree with haku's pharagraph here.

Robin kept bothering while I read through the last pages. Yet I don't think he's a member of the BBB.If he was he prolly would've been asked by the other members to attract less attention. He didn't.

I experienced the wave of positive replies on Haku's F1 scary as well. It seemed like BBB waited for someone else to start voting so they could easily hop on. And then, after the lynched person turned out to be innocent they can blame the starter.

Moxy, since you noticed your door was locked you must've had plans to go outside. A locked door may save a potential victim but also may lock a murder inside. If the second possibility was true you'd be playing a very dangerous game. Cockyness like this had caused Haku a quick death in the first newerth mafia game you also took part in. Would you risk that?

honestly? yes, cause if the townie blocker (which it isnt in this case however to go with your scenario) came out that he blocked me, and i didnt say anything, the only thing i could is claim a back up nta, but that what if a townie spy saw me using my nta, which people know i have, then they can tell i lied and im a dead person walikng, townie or mafia, its always best to admit when you are blocked.

Tinki behaved strangely => The people mentioned by me and Skuggi ran immediatly for him to lynch himPhoenix behaved strange => The same people went immediatly to vote on him, to get his role and to finally make him quit ...

Robin behaves strange => Now it's all different ... nobody wants to know his role, nor something else... that's great I see we bring logic in there ...

Less people are voting probably because they don't want to be accused of band wagoning, and since voting and lynching is the only way to win and people scared people out of it, or distracted us, they are probably very viable mafia

I waited for things unfold a little bit more, before coming to early conclusions. I’ll bomb you guys with an epic post though, lol. Grabbing this out of my word document:

On people on the list that voted for Phoenix – statistically it would only be logical some of them would be maffia, I’m not ruling out maffia voting on maffia to cover their tracks.

Moxy getting blocked with beast sounds behind door.. There is no kill – could be BBB failed to commit a murder?

Robin5Hood going on Valli for no real reason? What's this guy up to?

Haku trieing to rile up everybody.. He's succeeding!

To me, Valli looks pretty human, but please don’t set your eyes on Robin, as he’s just learning the game. You say you’d rather get him out of the game than letting him live, but that just evens the odds for the BBB. Think about that.Robin looks like he has an ability to kill people.. But why would he go openly telling that? He's probably a townie. On a side note - he might be breaking the rules talking about the game over teamspeak, or he could consiter saying this as a 'joke'.I’m sure Moxy is human! His playstyle feels honest. He’s right about maffia trying to make an alias out of previously gained intel about abilities. Now I see why my NTA thing at the start was a bad move - the BBB doesn't know exactly what our roles look like, and we need to keep them out of the blue as much as possible. I do feel you’re a bit over-annalysing Mopoks posts, wich is why I won’t vote for him. Bringing nothing to the table might be a playstyle, not a BBB tactic. Also the amount people post is again something out of interest, as some people have other things to do (especially in the early game when nothing is certain :p)

Also Mox, please don’t give out a role claim for the sake of appearing human, beasts could use this as an alias. Giving out your role would only contradict your earlier statement:

what you are doing is litsting possible role claims that mafia could borrow to use.

Skuggi looks pretty spot-on with his “experienced people learn newbs statement” thus we can suspect real beasts not to behave like Phoenix. Nice thought there.

On the rest of your suspects:Mind: being quite extravagant with his emotions kind of fits his personality, I’ve seen him getting in off-topic discussion with Winterfresh in the game before, so this kind behavior of matches his playing style. It is still a bad way to come around though.Envious: I don’t see any real issue with “going with the flow”, as most people play mafia like that. (see Haku and his band of followers)Haku: I think he’s really trying to focus on quieter players to get them to play more, or to figure out they are beasts. It’s a mafia tactic also used in the last Newerth game, so that statement has some ground. He still is devioussssssssssssssssss however [slither reference here]. Haku, you seem to find suspicious things in anyone you target, I hope people will notice that. The defence to Skuggi is pretty solid to me though. Haku targeting Feathers seems a bit far fetched, as I don’t see any”” Feathers keeps saying random stuff which makes no sense if he had actually read everything else or does not benefit anyone.” And is baised towards getting Feathers down rather than a real accusation.

Haku targeting Feathers seems a bit far fetched, as I don’t see any”OPEN BLANK SPACE” Feathers keeps saying random stuff which makes no sense if he had actually read everything else or does not benefit anyone.” And is baised towards getting Feathers down rather than a real accusation.

That's supposed to be "Feathers keeps saying random stuff which makes no sense if he had actually read everything else or does not benefit anyone."

Less people are voting probably because they don't want to be accused of band wagoning, and since voting and lynching is the only way to win and people scared people out of it, or distracted us, they are probably very viable mafia

First of all, I’d just like to say that I’m extremely disappointed by the shitty, lazy, and all around ignorant Posts and votes by tinki and robin. No outside of game offense, but you are representing (WW)! Remember that! Townie or not, you could really do better :/Now to move on to Dervun

For now, my vote goes to Envious: F1 EnviousYour posts are of very little substance and you seem to be very sure about what you are doing. Only Mafia can be sure, because they have more information. Let me requote the post in which you voted for Tinki:

In my opinion. WWs you have to stop covering up for each other. This isn't WW vs the mafia vs townies …

I'm no longer doing that. F1 Tinki

If you didn't vote on Tinki at first because you didn't want to lynch your clanmate, it is your right. But in fact, you openly chose not to vote, adding reasons to your decision. They might have been a quite incomprehensible, but they were reasons nonetheless. Contrary to that, once you joined the bandwagon against Tinki your only reason was that Mind convinced you.

As Tjens said, band waggoning is mafia like behavior, but many players play like that because people have made good points through-out the game, such as skuggi, haku, moxy, which make sense. Are we not allowed to agree with people? As I said above, Mind was disappointed by the (WW) behavior which I somewhat took part in because I was protecting Tinki at first. After he made many good points, and I thought about it and the discussion went on, I realized my clan-mates were not as great as I thought at this game, so I F1’d Tinki to prove I was no longer part of the bull-shit, and to prove I wasn’t ignorant because he was and still is very suspicious. Mind made a good point about tinki, so my reasons were his reasons. Furthermore, Although many people seem suspicious and many more good points have been made, I’m going to wait for another “bomb” to see what my vote will be. Until then I will F1 Robin5hoodbecause if nothing else interesting happens, he is the most suspicious in my book because he slipped his words a bit, took awhile to post reasons, and all around wasn't playing very clearly, which doesn't help townies at all. FYI Those are my reasons and not Mind's ^^.

SIDE NOTE TO MOXY:Could you spell out your "you's" and other words fully? It just bugs me because it only takes .5 seconds to type it out and it makes it harder to read. Thanks!

@Tjens, his reasoning he put behind his (Feathers) vote against me. Completely wrong in its entirety. You'll understand if you read it.

One thing bugs me about your "epic post", at first you say to forgive Robin for being new, then you vote for him - you're not following your own advice. :p Not going to disagree with voting on him to get him to finally speak about his awfully random accusations; Daemon doesn't seem to have kicked him from the game. Not to mention he's changed his vote 3 times (each without any actual explained reasons) today in short succession. Once one target failed to die, he jumped onto the next one.

I put a vote on him to get his attention! I'm not trying to start a bandwagon on him like Envious is doing. I know people are more inclined to speak the truth or speak out when they are threatened, and Robin seemed to me like the best choice to get a suspect out of, as Valli has been targeted before. I'm not saying anyone is a BBB, but I want to get my facts straight.

As a sidenote, the next target I would pick to vote after Robin would be you - Haku, as I'm not going to trust anything your manipulative tongue will sprout. :p

BTW Envious, have you completely thrown away the thought that new people that are townies are more inclined to make mistakes than newbies that are mafia, becouse they won't have the benefit of indoctrination? I'm not trying to get Robin killed, I just want him to tell us what he knows!

Ugh! catching up 10 pages at then end of a hard week as school is not easy! It was going well untill the huge block posts by Skugg, Tjens, Moxy, etc. but those were quite hard to follow, and I felt were mostly fruitless since they revolved around opinions of suspicion. I think we all have a group of people that we think are most likely mafia at the moment, but to all post them out in full form? It muddles my personal thoughts on the game. I'd rather the day time1. bring forth data (clap clap moxy) even if many different conclusions can be drawn from that information, many will be weeded out later in the game when new information comes to light. 2. See who supports/fights each other.

The second part can be seen to some degree, but I've had more trouble this day that the previous two identifying it clearly.

As I said, I have a list of suspicious people but I dont see any reason to spout on about it when its mostly just vague impressions and assumptions, but I will cast my vote F1 Robin5Hood and explain perhaps some of my unique reasons.I suspected him day one of being mafia with the rest of the players he was screwing around with, which meant they were mafia trying to distract, or talkative dumb humans that a smarter mafia was taking advantage of. Valli would fit that part if is robin comes up clean. Lucky happened to tell this group to calm down, inconclusive, but seemed odd. Then the random vote throwing at some of the same people he was messing around with. Yeah, plus I wouldn't miss him.

Robin, try to make a little more sense in your posts. For instance, you are about to get lynched and still you post nonsense. Please give out a role declaration at least - that we might decide to F2 so we can start playing the game again.On a sidenote, whats up with the TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE maffia players this time around? Why is half of you guys not even posting?

The thing is, you guys aren't sharing your thoughts.Robin, you just voted without any explanations, seems like you don't even know why. This game doesn't work the same as in rl, where you can see each others faces.

Arjey, being here is.. great.. but not helping at all, unless you contribute.

Envious, my point is, you brought up reasons to defend Tinki, until you claimed you won't protect him anymore. So, if you really didn't vote for him at first, because he was in your clan, you lied about that.Furthermore, simply agreeing to all reasons from someone else? Come on, specify a little at least.

Quote

As Tjens said, band waggoning is mafia like behavior, but many players play like that because people have made good points through-out the game, such as skuggi, haku, moxy, which make sense. Are we not allowed to agree with people?

Sure, in the end it comes down to agreeing on who to lynch, but simply agreeing 100% isn't that great, as you kinda hide behind others. With Tinki you had the chance to be one of the first pressuring him. Instead you waited for more people to show their suspicions and then joined in, not questioning anything.

To me, you are most suspicious, along with Robin, with the difference, that his weird playstyle makes him unpredictable. Hence my vote will stay on you.

why i shudl have role omg?look at vonte'sFeathers, Pizlo, Envious, Tjens, Igors, ValliFaun, Envious, Moxy, Mopok, Hakugei, Mind, Feathers.Arjey, Moxy, Mind, Envious, Hakugei, Fauni just weiting for Mind vonte or moxy or another man who will do same as alli don't know why Dervun think i have any role. i just push this game :mrgreen:

Your choice, you have 5 or 6 votes on you right now, you can think about what you want to do next... but you could actually help us a bit ... seems you are more into making more confusion and not helping the townies ...

First: Skuggi You are right. That's all suspicious nothing I can say to deflect it.

As for my "Town or thug, I don't care". I rather have a good game and lose. Than a bad game and win. And that works either way, whether I'm good or bad.

So do you have anything more for me

Secondly: DervunYou say I left a quote unanswered. Now, do you remember what it was? Or on what page? :P

Thirdly: I forgot who it was I had to address.

Now for my own:I doubt 4 mafia would constantly vote for the same people. I do agree that the chances are high that Mox, Haku or me is a thug. On another note, knowing Daemon is that he makes balanced teams. Dervun, Faun, Feathers, Haku, Igors, Lucky, Mind, Moxy, Unsafe and winterfresh have played under Daemon already. (Lucky died already)Now if I remember correctly Dervun, Feather, Haku, Mind, Moxy played on RO mafia too. (Winterfresh did you play on RO?) Now Igors and Faun played very well in the first newerth mafia game. So I assume he counts them as experienced too.

So chances are extremely high that one of us is a thug. As we are the one with "much" experience. Daemon wants to make teams as far as possible without a walk in the park. Now if you take the list again from skuggi. Haku, Mox and myself stand on it again. This is also a theory.

But as Moxy has had some pressure on him. Not even vote-wise. And seems to be convinced that the door locker is bad. Is willingly to go for a role declaration while he is in fact against is. Seems like he is threatening us in a way.

However Robin and his "I don't have a role shizzle" is like making me say FU. And as Mox isn't pressured but Robin is. I'll have to continue the bandwagon on him. It will probably work against me later on. But Heck for real NO ROLE? He's acted foolishly. Now he says no role. F1 Robin5Hood His role could save him but then again he says he none.

On the same note, Moxy, I doubt you too. About Haku I can say little. He always plays like that. As for the Tinki, he's escaped the heath. Could be mafia- alike, could be that he's learnt to not be foolish anymore.

Oh god ... I just click on the name and see on the profile when they were last seen, if that is a moderator abitlity (I supposed everyone can do it like on our ww forum) then I failed once again -.- and want that it is all deleted by Daemon. -.-

Oh god ... I just click on the name and see on the profile when they were last seen, if that is a moderator abitlity (I supposed everyone can do it like on our ww forum) then I failed once again -.- and want that it is all deleted by Daemon. -.-

It's not :P I just thought you meant specific stuff. that you knew when he was online, what he looked at etc … by a click on the name.

However Robin and his "I don't have a role shizzle" is like making me say FU. And as Mox isn't pressured but Robin is. I'll have to continue the bandwagon on him. It will probably work against me later on. But Heck for real NO ROLE? He's acted foolishly. Now he says no role. F1 Robin5Hood His role could save him but then again he says he none.

...

So I F2 Robin for the moment being.

Can you explain that now a bit further? I guess you want that we talk a bit more about all, or ?

However Robin and his "I don't have a role shizzle" is like making me say FU. And as Mox isn't pressured but Robin is. I'll have to continue the bandwagon on him. It will probably work against me later on. But Heck for real NO ROLE? He's acted foolishly. Now he says no role. F1 Robin5Hood His role could save him but then again he says he none.

...

So I F2 Robin for the moment being.

Can you explain that now a bit further? I guess you want that we talk a bit more about all, or ?

He has enough votes for a lynch doesn't he? Funny how you deleted in the quote the reason of why I went for the F2 on him. there were 9 more posts, including more votes on Robin. As he has 8 votes. My vote currently doesn't make a change. If he lacks a one vote by the end of the day. I will add it.

He has enough votes for a lynch doesn't he? Funny how you deleted in the quote the reason of why I went for the F2 on him. there were 9 more posts, including more votes on Robin. As he has 8 votes. My vote currently doesn't make a change. If he lacks a one vote by the end of the day. I will add it.

Sorry I didn't get the thing with the 9 posts -.- nvm then, that's good enough explanation from your side.

I was in the middle of writing a huge post, but then he claimed his role. Time to reassess the situation, FINALLY.

Now that your role is out, who were your targets and who did you see?I would very much suggest you share this info before you die during the day or night. Instead of cryptically saying things like "oh and I know who is in Hakugei's Room". *sighs*

Which brings me to the next point, considering you're stamped as a liar, I have a hard time believing anything you'll say.Why are you acting so stupidly suicidal all the time?

How many freaking times should i repeat that QUOTING IS FORBIDDEN? If the town can afford quoting their role descriptions - which no doubt will prove them innocent - Mafia does not have this luxury. That's why you simply have to use your own words to explain your role. It's that easy! I just eliminated Phoenix for the exact same thing, Robin...

You are allowed to say ANYTHING, as long as you do not quote or pretend to quote from the moderator's e-mails.-Exception: role names. It's obvious you shouldn't have to rephrase those. As for everything else, just use your own words.

Going further with eliminating those that ruin the game for everyone, Leodasvacas barely saved himself, while Metjm did not even post after the warnings i've sent him. He had only 1 post in the entire game, 12 days ago. Sorry but you're out too.

Hopefully, starting the next day, there game can finally begin... properly, so, everyone, please stay with me.

Not everybody can withstand the strain that the presence of the age-old enemies subjects them to. They don't remember their purpose, they become unable to tell friend from foe, and soon, their brain implodes. The mighty and the valiant will continue carrying the torch of freedom, hopefully, after properly mourning their fallen brethren.

Tip of the day:There are 3 major actions that can break a game: quoting emails from the mod, talking outside the game thread, and being inactive. Whoever is unable to play fairly by abiding by these simple rules, leaves me no choice but to try and save the game by eliminating the offenders.

What's a spire gardener, you may ask. Well, it's someone that grows spires. Do you think they don't need watering, cleaning and the occasional trimming? There are rumors the spires respond well to music and even produce stronger projectiles to throw at their enemies when they feel like they have someone to fight for, like a loving, caring beast, that always shoos those pesky woodpeckers.

Yes, an entire universe unravels outside the confines of a magical shrine. One that had dedicated its life studying charms and enchantments is prone to forgetting there is a physical, profane, palpable world out there. Too bad it's populated.

Although his job was to protect his fellow beats, it looks like he got no protection from them, in return. Left on the outside, day in, day out, Hakugei used to fly around, feeding on frightened rabbits and wishing they were human children. Although, one may argue that this was kinda lame, human children can't fight back. Unlike their adults, and especially the hater type. Proof of that he stood himself. To be precise, his head, on a stake, in the morning, in front of the monastery.

Tip of the day:The Godfather (Mafia boss) is immune to investigations that could tell friend from foe (classic mafia “cop” investigations). While there may be exceptions, this is an iron rule that every moderator should not ignore. This immunity generally does not apply to information that cannot, by itself, prove one’s guilt or innocence, and could yield blank or obviously inconclusive results to certain investigations.

There are two options about the previous night. Either Moxy was a blocked victim, or Moxy was a blocked offender. I think the blocked blocked the same target again to see if there will be no kill again (then he'd be sure that Moxy was an offender).

Mind, what you described sounds like a nice way for Daemon to guarantee he will end up as Mafia :lol:It was a different situation after all, Daemon and Radwulf are way more experienced than anyone else who participated, those large gaps don't exist here.

Ontopic: Find someone more suspicious than Envious, or help me in my cause!

Yes, I think we can now assume that the BBB are humans as metjm was a chaplain and "ruthless brotherhood of human xenophobic killers" can very well mean they're humans killing beasts. But I guess angry humans could growl as well...?

It is unfortunate that we've lost so many townies to suicides, before being able to finish discussing. Hopefully that won't have to happen again (if everyone has read the rules). I'll wait a bit before voting as I seem to have been quite wrong about Hakugei.

I stated my reasons last day, do you really want me to quote myself? Did any of you guys pay attention to what was going on besides the Robin-dilemma? I'm quite unsure what to make out of this..

To give a short summary and more: He always joined (not started) the bandwagon with shallow reasoning (only agreeing), never trying to look into other matters. He had no doubts whether the ones he voted for could be innocent.

Now i understand Robin was as suspicious, as anyone could possibly get, but after Phoenix suiciding people should have been aware of newbies not understanding the game.Robin lied, no Townie would do that.Robin admitted a lie plus lied about something everyone knew he was lying. No Mafiosi would do this.That's what i basically said with calling him unpredictable.Can you lynch someone for that playstyle? Probably.Can you do it without wondering if he could be a sloppy Townie? No!

After all, we got 3 bandwagons within 3 days, one against Tinki and two resulting in suicides. That's where we can get most of our clues from.

Now i understand Robin was as suspicious, as anyone could possibly get, but after Phoenix suiciding people should have been aware of newbies not understanding the game.Robin lied, no Townie would do that.Robin admitted a lie plus lied about something everyone knew he was lying. No Mafiosi would do this.That's what i basically said with calling him unpredictable.Can you lynch someone for that playstyle? Probably.Can you do it without wondering if he could be a sloppy Townie? No!

After all, we got 3 bandwagons within 3 days, one against Tinki and two resulting in suicides. That's where we can get most of our clues from.

I agree with most of what you said about the Robin fiasco. He behaved irrationally and so people voted for him. I don't see why there needed to be 8 or 9 votes to get him to declare a role but whatever. I believe most players were waiting him declaring his role and if it made sense they'd withdraw their vote. But the day ended unexpectedly so they didn't get a chance to do so. In comparison I found it was more suspicious how Phoenix was attacked because he made an effort to save himself.

About Envious, he needs to explain himself, carefully... You'll notice that he has voted for Tinki, Phoenix and Robin5Hood.

Morning. Looks like I have 1 permanent vote on me for today. I have played rather suspiciously, and that is mainly because I was falling around stupidly at the beginning of the game because I haven't played mafia on this website before. Not only that, but I band-waggoned because I thought the claims made were logical and the people were very much mafia-like. I legitimatley had no idea how the game was played and how people found out who mafia were. So, wether or not you guys will have it, I'm defending myself by saying that I was just acting stupid because I was new. I've learned a lot from players like Haku, so it saddens me to see them go because the townies will have one less valuable player. That being said, I was pretty surprised to learn he wasn't mafia in the first place, so this game can surprise you sometimes. Mafia or not, he was a smart player, and players like him make this more fun. Robin, on the other hand :roll:On a more serious note, I'd like to lay out a few thoughts. Firstly, the BBB IS called the BEAST blood band. I haven't played under Daemon before so I don't know if he follows his own story rules, but I think we can assume that at least a majority of the band are beasts, if not all.

Secondly, you guys wanted another person to look at, so I present Valli. You agree with most people who make good points, and you never add anything to those points. You always post rather short messages, either pointing out something obvious, or asking for clarification. Most of your posts could be put in the "just posting to look active and townie-like" category. I'll give a few examples.

Again another short post, and it doesn't add anything because people normally post what happened over night. Just a post to look active. Also notice that he didn't tell any of us what he did overnight, just asking others.

Atleast in my eyes, this is all pretty suspicious. I don't know about you Dervun, but you asked for more suspicous people than myself, and Valli seems like it. For now, until more people post, I start a vote on Valli.F1 Valli

There are two options about the previous night. Either Moxy was a blocked victim, or Moxy was a blocked offender. I think the blocked blocked the same target again to see if there will be no kill again (then he'd be sure that Moxy was an offender).

The second part about if there would be no kill was exactly what i was thinking. The part about humans or beasts and stuff is kinda irrelevant, i am sure the growling means something, probably that it is a beast unit, and that the blocker either was protecting or more likely trying to see if there was no kill again, if so then the blocker would know for sure moxy was bad, but haku getting killed last night threw that out the window.

As i was typing this envious posted, he says beast blood band could that mean in anyway that it is humans that want beast blood to be shed? therefore killing beasts? I think the 2 groups almost have nothing to do with the unit in savage, as there was been humans and beasts on townie.

Aggreed Envious, I obviously post short messages! Sorry but I am not the post-whore like other people are here, but it shall be no excuse. If you think I am suspicous then ok so be it, that's ok, it's not the first day someone brings this up.

Concerning my vote, I will wait for more people to join the chat here, some people are quite not that much helping in the dicscussion here, you can guess the names yourself.

Have a nice day, I am going to bed and will post in the "morning" again.

As for Envious, your reasons to vote for Valli can be used against you. Except that you bandwagon more easily.

As for Moxy being blocked twice in a row says more about the blocker than about Moxy. On the other hand this is usually again the time to get them not focused talking. Eg mopok his posting is not adding up in value. Nor are some others. But for the time being I'd like to pressure Envious as well.

I did find him suspiscious back then. And it is time to pull open the game. We should have more or less enough intel to separate the thugs from the good guys. Let's start with Envious and work our way up.

Right, but I band-waggoned easily before because I didn't know it was looked down upon. I'm new to this game. I only pointed out Valli because Dervun asked for more people to be pointed out. Another person that fits into that category would be Tinki, which is pretty much self-explanatory. I never denied what I was saying against Valli was true about myself, I acknowledge that I have played suspiciously mostly because of my own newbiness.. I would also kindly like to request more people like Arjey and Faun to post more... Explain yourselves! :-)

About Envious, he needs to explain himself, carefully... You'll notice that he has voted for Tinki, Phoenix and Robin5Hood.

he also voted for mind and Valli... I'd rather look at:mopok for only voting Hak and pheonix, Feathers for only voting Hak Pheonix and Robin

A strange night, I was assuming Hak was BBB so my general view of the playing field is a little shook up. Also let me clarify that I'm pointing out those other people not because I'm demanding explanations (I think it was perfectly reasonable to cast those votes) but to point out other people skuggi might want to grill.

Don't get me wrong, i do have some suspicions about you, Daemons balancing plans just doesn't belong to them

Daemon prohibited me to put Radwulf and himself in the same team. So I assume he himself does it too. More or less.

That reminds me.

Moxy didn't you say that mafia had to be beasts? That I did indeed read the story wrongly? As metjm was a hate chaplain. Means he was human, yes?

Or am I putting to much weight on that one sentence?

i guess i was wrong... i really dont understand that part. and yes to people asking me, exactly the same block as last time.

i would like to sya for the 30 past minutes i have been researching and it appears you were right mind, i as wrong. the killers are human, i was confused. Xenophobic meant that the have an irational fear. to me. when i read this scentance:

"The slaying of their brother was claimed by the dreaded Beast Blood Band, a ruthless brotherhood of human xenophobic killers!"

i read beast band with an irrational fear of humans, but after reseach on the internet this morning, i understand that it means, that they are Human killers with a xenophobic fear of Beasts and the peace of beast and humans and are after the beast blood. and anyone agaisnt this. i.e the human chaplians that want peace with the beast.

i've always understood that the townies were both human and beast, i just thought that mafia was purley beasts. obviously they are not with the death of metjm.

this also throws into the light that my blocker, which is a beast that i know for certain, could mean that the blocker is indeed townie, but it could just also mean that the blocker is a traitor.

Seems like BBB is hiding much better than we expected, so far everyone that was voted for because of pettifoggery and labyrinthine like arguments turned out to be human. :/ On the other hand, we wont get a vote for someone by gut feeling. Since I don't think anymore that BBB will reveal themselves easily and they most probably will look as the most normal townies by now, I just wanna share my point ov view: The killers arent the silent ones, but showing "proper" action and acting quite inconspicuous. I totally agree with Dervun that its time to look at the content from everyone's messages. Maybe some people could try to use their scouting powers better to be a little more informative. Its day 4 and we haven't got any clue from this side, so scouts plz reveal a little more stuff...

For my part I wanna look closer at F1 sasuke and his funny, but uninformative posts.

I wouldn't give too much on that question, since from what I know from last mafia game is to expect the unexpected (5 cents in the worn off-sayer-fund). Even if BBB consists of one race, there always is the possibility that there are traitors or whatsoever who will render all certainty of evidences to zero. So if you heared a growling I guess you heard a beast, but unless you saw anything more like a proof its pretty much pointless information. Gets me more to the reason why to blow up the topic of this anonymous howling so much...

Yea, I agree that there will be no 'wrong' information from Daemon. Every point of the information you'll get surely is correct, still I dont think daemon would give out a proof information at once for an unlimited NTA (the ones you can use again and again). Still there may be scouting abilities that could be used once to gather more valueable info. I'm only guessing, tho. Only thing I wanted to throw in is that an "incidental" observation of sounds through a closed door won't really point out much on single players, so I don't fully understand why its made to such an important objection. I'm sure the teams both are mixed, so there won't be a clear parting such as Human=Townie Beast=BBB in any case.

Mafia tends to be a group. And as it is healers and others living in a town. I do believe that it will be one race vs another. Based on Daemon his story. That's the thing about savage isn't one race vs another. Now some decided to live in peace. Some people can't have that. And would hateful players start a group with a race they hate, to in first place eliminate them living in peace. I do believe that there will be a traitor, and in this case someone of the other race assisting them.

I'm actually just working the story out for our investigators. NTA information + day activity + information about who would most likely be thug and who not would help them out greatly.

Daemon kind of always puts hints in his stories. That line is the only hint for me to make sense ;P

Hello there. Valli questioned howcome I stay online on the forums all day, it's because I keep a tab open for the Mafia thread along 40 other tabs, I'm a tab maniac, but unforntunaly it dosen't mean I'm always following the thread, though I do try to keep track fo things. Hakugei getting killed confuses me, F3 for now.

I think one of the main difficulties in our game here is that so many players seem to be afk most time, and I experienced myself the past week how hard it is to keep up with the events when you aint have the time to read the new posts but there are three new pages.

mind: the last sentence in my post is meant literally: "I'm sure". There is no racial diversion that could be taken as a system to determine BBB. Or at least it isn't that straight to know the side without other hints.

I think I agree with Arjey in this. Since the growling can be either human or beast, and the BBB can be a mix, one or the other, either with traitors, I think we won't be able to find out that much even if we do end up agreeing on what race the mafia is. I might have more time on my hand than others, but reading 3 new pages takes around 10 minutes at most. I know it may take time, but the more active and thinking players we have, the more chance someone comes up with the right idea. Townies are already losing numbers rather quickly due to suicides and stupid playing, so we need to make the most of the players we have now before even them get killed.

And would hateful players start a group with a race they hate, to in first place eliminate them living in peace. I do believe that there will be a traitor, and in this case someone of the other race assisting them.

mind: the last sentence in my post is meant literally: "I'm sure". There is no racial diversion that could be taken as a system to determine BBB. Or at least it isn't that straight to know the side without other hints.

That contradicts the previous newerth game. Not only they had abilities, they even had 2 kills at their disposal. So I'd say your assumptions are useless. :P

Yep, there were two traitors, and one (me) had an investigative role, observing who entered someone's room by... erm, prostituting with them, and another traitor who had 2 kills at his disposal. Fairly strong if you ask me.

That contradicts the previous newerth game. Not only they had abilities, they even had 2 kills at their disposal. So I'd say your assumptions are useless. :P

Yep, there were two traitors, and one (me) had an investigative role, observing who entered someone's room by... erm, prostituting with them, and another traitor who had 2 kills at his disposal. Fairly strong if you ask me.

Nice, I hope you were visiting me, too, back then. :pMoxy, did you hear beasty voices again? The blocker prolly wanted to save your life again which he very likely did the night before.Maybe it will help what you, Lucky and Haku had in common.

Good now that we know, that we actually know not that much, is it possible that we focus on the current game?!? I mean it won't help us that much if we discuss the old games for half a day. I know you want to find some connections, but I seriously doubt that will help us and will bring out a BBB, at least for now our knowledge is too limited.

As someone has pointed out before, we need to generate pressure on one us.

So we have the following solutions:

- We focus on Envious.- We focus on one of the other less writing, (e.g. Tinki)- We focus on someone writing and interacting more (e.g. me)

As I am not totally satisfied with Envious's explanation before, and as he is to me suspicious in his behaviour I will cast the following vote F1Envious.

I expected another semi-low profile townie to be targeted again though I guess a player with that kind of game experience such as Hakugei would pose a threat for the BBB. Also sucks that so many townies committed suicide.

By the way, isn't the Mafia Godfather supposed to give orders to his mafia colleagues on who to kill who or something like that? Perhaps Moxy was ordered to kill that night but he was blocked and this night the Godfather ordered somebody else to kill this night. Isn't this how stuff works for the Mafia side? Correct me if I'm wrong. :|

I suggest you all pressure Tinki aswell, imo he is not posting because he doesn't want discussion on him. I think he knows that he shouldn't point any attention to himself, therefore lying in the dark. Tinki, post please. I want you to speak more, to prove to us you aren't as suspicious as we thought. I see I have more votes on me, and I assume you all want an explanation. To put it simply, I played stupidly at the beginning due to my newbiness to the game in general, and I've learned a lot from others since then, and I want to contribute as most as I can so that we can find the mafia. I don't really know how else to defend myself, to be honest. My protection of Tinki was basic respect for my clan-mate, and I, at that point, linked mafia and outside-of-game relationships too much. To prove that I then realized my mistake, that people you think of highly can disappoint you, I changed my vote to a strong F1 for the Tinki lynch. I just hope I haven't disappointed any others from my playing.

Pretty weak argument on envious if you ask me, either all these people know something i don't but he has all this pressure nothing comes up he plays it cool and he is still active not trying to avoid contact like tinki, and some other guys that posted frequently earlier really shut down lately. Tjens hardly been posting lately and some others.

Guys we kind of need to find one target to pressure. Either give us reason to vote for your target or hop the bandwagon. At this point we need to separate the thugs for the good guys. And the best way to do that is by pressure. If they don't take the pressure seriously they'll get lynched for it. So no one will back out.

Mopok, the thing is, we gain nothing out of those who don't post. If they are Town, they aren't helping at all, but if they are Mafia, they don't vote for Townies at least. I'd rather lynch those who we can assess, as it gives us a higher chance on a hit and, in case of a success, gets us rid of one who prefers to vote for Townies.This doesn't mean we shouldn't ignore those who post rarely and without content.

Envious, i am not convinced by your defense. If we let everyone get away who says he played stupid, we end each day without a lynch. Furthermore i never had the impression you were playing it stupid, more like you were playing it the Mafia-way.

I think Envious is clever enough to not lose his mind if he gets pressured. We have no use of ppl not saying anything, which is anyways suspicious enough, even if they are townies they won't help us to find the badboys ;)

F1 Tinki

I no longer care about if he is townie or not, just lynch him and find out, since he is useless in this game anyways!Lets get him ;)

Dervun, I was playing stupidly. I blatantly protected Tinki, because I thought more of him and Robin. Mind pointed out that people can disappoint you, and after he and a few others made some very good points I realized my mistake and changed my mind because I was still learning at that point. Not everyone can defend themselves like that because I am one of the few players who haven't played before. I can't defend myself any other way because that is my only reason for playing that way. I have to agree with arjey right now on tinki... He hasn't posted after I requested him to do so, and, like arjey said, he is useless to us whether he is mafia or not.F2 Valli F1 TinkiFaun why the arjey vote, with no explanation?

i wonder if its time to do mass role claims, then we can start finding out the liers. the only dowside that mafia will learn our roles and know who to block and kill off first.... its a problem when u dont have information to go on...

i will bring this information to light though, i know who visited hakus house on night 2, and as haku didnt say he got blocked or was forced to vote for someone on day 3, im guessing its not a blocker or a killer., and i also know that faun didnt leave his room night 1. night 3 and 4 i got blocked.

Tinki, atleast post more so that we know you're here and your reading what our claims are. We might pressure you more, so stay here and I'm sure you have ideas, so just tell us who you think. The more people who put in ideas and thoughts, the more chance we have of getting the badies. Not posting just looks like mafia-like behavior.

a townie blocking the same person 3 nights in a row, after he blocked me but there was still a kill?

no i dont buy it.

i know it was an investigator, pretty sure since haku didnt say anything happend to him, but ur right, the question is if it was townie or mafia. if it was townie im not sure we want the mafia to know who it was though...

I do agree with you, that your blocker is most likely Mafia. Someone pro Town would have put some pressure against you, if he suspected you to be the killer.

However, giving away who visited Hakugei doesn't seem important. Whoever it was, he can have any role, including a blocking one. Best if you keep the exact night and person for yourself until this player comes into the spotlight.

I do agree with you, that your blocker is most likely Mafia. Someone pro Town would have put some pressure against you, if he suspected you to be the killer.

No, i think (saying this on the poor assumption that Moxy hasn't lied) The blocker was townie, the previous night may have been a random block...but no-one died, the healer did his job or Moxy couldn't do it or the mafia leaders forgot. The townie then would have probably thought give it another day, to be sure, but someone did die when Moxy claims he was blocked, so Mafia plot of confusion or Moxy is a townie, take your pick.

Didn't have the time back then to explain my thoughts, just felt slightly disturbed by his eagerness for a quick lynch. I'm not 100% sure on that Tinki vote now too, what if he knows that Tinki aint BBB? Its so hard to tell with all those Nearly afkers, just cant say if tactic or n00bness. I'm concerned about Tinkis role here aswell, so F2 Arjey F1 Tinki

I do agree with you, that your blocker is most likely Mafia. Someone pro Town would have put some pressure against you, if he suspected you to be the killer.

No, i think (saying this on the poor assumption that Moxy hasn't lied) The blocker was townie, the previous night may have been a random block...but no-one died, the healer did his job or Moxy couldn't do it or the mafia leaders forgot. The townie then would have probably thought give it another day, to be sure, but someone did die when Moxy claims he was blocked, so Mafia plot of confusion or Moxy is a townie, take your pick.

Tell me, why did noone put pressure on Moxy last day? You assume a Townie blocked someone who possibly has an investigating/observing role (Explanation for Moxys play).You assume the Townie then blocked the same person again, thus most likely denying an observer from the Town 2 nights of observation. First block, ok, could have been a Townie. Second, i don't think so anymore.

Btw, while you are on it, help us out and share your thoughts about the game. Right now, Mafia are drawing it out, we need more input.

Arjey and Envious wtf is it with you, you vote around, every time something different, Faun covers you up as well... I don't trust you 3 guys. The only thing you do is switching votes, talking about generating pressure, and before we actually get enough votes you switch to the next person ... "generating more pressure" or what? ... Are you 3 trying to make some kind of vote confussion or what is it... ? I stay with my vote on Envious ... he is suspicious. Faun and Arjey you 2 are next on my list, then follows tinki and the rest of the bunch.

Sorry Faun, but I get pissed of that half of the people are not writing here, and the other half is vote switching instead of focusing on 1 person. So many are not responding here ... really annoying. -.-

I agree that this way of half-hearted playing makes it hard to get reliable clues from following the thread. Im not sure anymore how much of that "Im noob plz dont kill me" attitude may be true, and I don't have that much fun playing with those either, so its pretty much my previous agenda when I vote for Tinki now. Arjey was merely a vote intended by gut feelings, so was sasuke. Could have been the chance to provoke some action, tho.

You assume a Townie blocked someone who possibly has an investigating/observing role (Explanation for Moxys play).You assume the Townie then blocked the same person again, thus most likely denying an observer from the Town 2 nights of observation. First block, ok, could have been a Townie. Second, i don't think so anymore.

I would disagree with the underlined quote, if you randomly block someone and noone dies, that would ring alarm bells that this person could be mafia, so you test it again the following night.

Btw, while you are on it, help us out and share your thoughts about the game. Right now, Mafia are drawing it out, we need more input.

I dislike the confusion created by Tink-Envious-Arjey and im convinced one of them are a member of the BBB

happii's, Mopoks and winterfresh's playing style of posting enough to avoid random forces, forcing them to post more than they like, i would figure if they are still alive, later in-game more focus should be put on them.

Skuggi, you and Igors have been pretty evaluative, so's Mind and Moxy to an extent

Mind is just being Mind :-P

Valli, faun and unsafe: I don't know.

Leodasvacas, Sasuke, Tjens and Tinki have gone AWOL and will be removed after 10 days...unfortunatly.

I'm going with Valli on this one, your voting patern, faun's less then envious's and arjey's, is rather shifting a bit to much for my liking. Its a nice strategy to cause havoc and get someone out of the game rather quick and cunningly. One might even say its manipulation?

Whoever was in there could be either mafia or a townie, because they only had the Day 1 discussion to base their NTA on, so it probably won't give us any solid evidence. But it probably wouldn't hurt for the rest of us to know either, or what?

I find Tjens' and Sasuke's lack of posting weird, considering their usual behaviour. Some others have been very quiet as well.

Also, Envious, I'm not really buying your excuses. I'd like to push for a role declaration because I think we need to focus now. In my opinion you've been playing and voting very much in favour of the mafia. If, however, you're a townie and can explain your role carefully it might very well quell my suspicions and those of others and we can focus elsewhere.

i know it was an investigator, pretty sure since haku didnt say anything happend to him, but ur right, the question is if it was townie or mafia. if it was townie im not sure we want the mafia to know who it was though...

Just noticed your explanation right after I posted. It make's sense, and now might not be the best moment to share it since it wouldn't give us any solid evidence which side that person is on.

I think arjey is the most suspicious now, he wants pressure on envious like many others, the boat changes direction only a couple posts later(when he changed his vote to tinki, even in envious's defense it said to vote for tinki and seemed like arjey agreed with the one who he is attacking, makes them both viable targets), and he votes for tinki like many others because he doesn't care if they are mafia or townie because he doesn't like his playing style.. Yet why would any townie say that when the townie numbers are dwindling night after night, we need the people alive to keep in the game. He would obviously know he is townie if he is mafia. So my vote is now on arjey.

You all say I switch votes a lot, but tbh I really haven't. Dervun wanted more people suggested, I put Valli. Valli clearly explained his defense, and changed his habits to post more informative and longer posts like I asked, so I put in Tinki. Tinki never really responded fully, so I changed my vote to him because he wasn't posting any defense. That's two votes. Arjey does get swayed a little bit to easily, but I think he's less important than Tinki at this point. Tjens needs to post, and I want more from Leo. All in all, I'm trying to find the most suspicious out of a long list of people that aren't playing terribly clearly.

I'm back from a couple days of heavy drinking and not being to able to write coherent sentenced (when I'm even home) becouse of this DREADFULL series of days I have to go through named carnival. I hope that awnsers my inactivity, I forgot to give you guys an heads up before hand sorry for that. I'm posting this in the middle of the night becouse my day/night rythm has been awefull in the last few days, lol.

NOW, on the whole Envious/Tinki thing: Atleast one of them should be mafia giving Enivious is really picking on him for no real reason. Also you seem to direct attention away from you by mentioning other people, wich is a not a real defence to me. Also your bandwagoning/mafia like behaivoir can't really be justified by being new to the game anymore.

On the other hand - Tinki has been suspicious to me for the whole game, and I don't think Envi would pressure a fellow BBB player the way he did. He has been awefully silent during the whole ordeal even though he has been targeted directly for some time now. I would like to see a role declaration from either Envious or Tinki as soon as possible, and make the decision to vote from there.

If there is no role declaration before the end of the (game) day, I will vote on the one who I think is more suspicious! I'll hold my vote to prevent early lynching. Better come out soon!

More and more it seems to me like we getting into a situation where the active people are taken as the most suspicious, because they change their votes and w/e. Personally I think that the BBB are amongst the silent folks, who laugh their ass off as we're doing their work. If changing the votes (in an explainable way) is suspect, what is being silent most of the time, throwing in the occasional vote to stay active?

LOL, you can't generalise mafia behaviour by activity! Anyone can be mafia, I find active people just as untrustworthy as inactive people. It's the timing that does the trick. A good subtle mafia would be one that lurks the posts and occasinally drops a message summerising some of the stuf that has been happening, picking some suspicious target to vote on in the process everybody agrees on. Non-mafias are a bit more chaotic in behaivoir I think, not having a real purpose or guideline to follow. I also tend to switch my main target from time to time as I constantly change my mind about people, lol.

From my experience it's mixed. Some Mafiosi are active from the beginning, others aren't.

It's hard to tell on those who rarely post, because they rarely post. Simple as that. I noticed one special behavior during the games i played though. Some of those who stay mostly silent for the first ingame days jump out with bigass posts, where they figured it all out. Those posts have to be read extra carefully.

What is your problem with my playstyle :lol:?! I am reading everything carefully to get more information.I just put my vote on Tinki, because he will not be of any use if he goes on with the few posts he does every second day!

A role claim could probably the only way to save your life Tinki, else it is just more suspicious :)

Looks like you guys want a role claim. I am a nomad cleaner. Every night I may go the room of my choosing and clean their room of anything that Is placed there, like a democharge or what have you.. I get no info back about whether I have found something or not.

Well, from what I have understood about the role, I need to be able to get in the room to clean, so if the blocker locked the door (isn't that what happened?) then I wouldn't be able to get In.. I can only clean out objects placed in the room, like sensors, relocaters, demos, etc..

Just to put it more clearly, once I send in my target, I haven't gotten any response email about anything that happened to me over-night. So I don't know if I even got in, let alone clean anything. Yeah, valli, you're right, because of my role in the game, we have reasons to believe that objects can be placed in rooms. I think this may be how Robin knew something Hakugei, he may have placed a flower or something from the spire he gardened or whatever which might act like a sensor. Just a guess

Your first example you gave with the demo charge fits perfectly for a Mafia role. After all, Mafia is the minority, so countering some NTA's is a negative ability, if we assume both teams can place objects. Furthermore, you didn't give your targets, as i requested.

Dervun, he gave a an example of what his nta would do to a mafia type role, and it dosent say he counters all abilites, just counters objects placed in the room. what it cuold be is that he counters demo charges, i.e a killing role, whilstr that could be townie the killing role is more of a traitor role. soi he could be a townie, afterall not all townie roles would place something in the room.

i do think however, its rather convieniant though that he dosent get any feedback, no feedback means nothing to tell us and thats kinda strange for a townie nta, most townie nta give u information to feedback to the townies to show who to trust and whos mafia.

i believe his nta interfears with certain ntas and therefore more likley to be traitor than mafia or townie. i'll wait for tinki to make his role claim before possibly moving my vote over to envious though.

Dervun, he gave a an example of what his nta would do to a mafia type role, and it dosent say he counters all abilites, just counters objects placed in the room. what it cuold be is that he counters demo charges, i.e a killing role, whilstr that could be townie the killing role is more of a traitor role. soi he could be a townie, afterall not all townie roles would place something in the room.

A killing role - apart from the beheadings going on - is a classic Town role. In every game i have played so far there was a vigilante, last game here featured two. I never said he counters all abilities, i said the same as you on that matter.

Lol that's highly unlikely, Envious has been targeting Tinki the most of all of us. I got my doubts about Tinki, only knowing what happens to you and you only seems like something a traitor would have, I guess? It would be most usefull for mafia and twonies alike - either by putting yourself in the fray ands gather information or satying quiet whilst protecting yourself against accusations by countering them. The only problem is he's not using it.

Or is he?

Tinki you have been in the scopes of everyone for some time now - did anybody target you so far? Do you have any usefull information to give us? Why are you silent 90% of the time and only contribute int he form of self-defence? At least Envious is trying to get something going, lol.

Well, from what I have understood about the role, I need to be able to get in the room to clean, so if the blocker locked the door (isn't that what happened?) then I wouldn't be able to get In.. I can only clean out objects placed in the room, like sensors, relocaters, demos, etc..

after he explained that no where did i ask why he didnt use it on me.

so after he explained that why are u askng if he used it on me? it wouldnt make any difference, according to envious anyway.

5 votes on Envious so far...His role is similar to the one Mefix had in mafia one, if I get things right.This was a mafia NTA though...

I was suspicious about the fact this is a healers' war and he claims to be a nomad cleaner but Haku and Robin weren't blessed with a healing unit, either.And the idea of a human cleaner fits Daemon's type of humor. :p

I'm not going to vote for now. Five votes are enough when there's more than one day left.

Exactly what I just thought Moxy :lol:Well Tinki described his role pretty.....thin tbh, but I still leave him for the moment.For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

Exactly what I just thought Moxy :lol:Well Tinki described his role pretty.....thin tbh, but I still leave him for the moment.For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

F2 Tinki F1 Envious

For me you are just not playin the role of the choirboy clever and convincing enough and I am also not sure about your role claim.

Exactly what I just thought Moxy :lol:Well Tinki described his role pretty.....thin tbh, but I still leave him for the moment.For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

F2 Tinki F1 Envious

er why does this post make me suddenly want to remove my f1? :|

btw guys we have all of tommrow and saturday, dont go for a instant lynch please.

btw i am going for a trip for the weekend, monday and Tuesday, i will be able to be slightly active, not as much though depends on computer availability at the hotel. Please don't go for the instant lynch if anyone does I would be extremely obvious they are mafia trying to shorten our day. For the roles they seem fine, in this game not all people are healers and they seem reasonable i got no comment on envious being a traitor. Not even sure how that works.

I would assume the second quote was a typo and it meant to be "2 nights in a row". But then the third quote makes no sense because who would ever expect that you are going to be blocked two times in a row?!

And why did no one else ask Moxy about this yet?

I have seen at least one more inconsistency during the previous days but that one I will prefer to keep to myself for now.

I'm not as suspicious about Tinki. I'm rather suspicious about the Arjey-Envious-Faun trio along with other people who seem to be eager lynching another townie.

Nice from you to put me in a trio, but I stand alone in this mess. Can't do much in terms of giving hints, so I keep on being on the watch for strange situations that give me some idea. After the story with phoenix I'm not too eager on quick lynches anymore, even if I feel quite confident about the person's role, so I haven't voted for Envious yet. Discussions about People allegedly being too suspicious because of some 'inconsistencies' have given BBB great cover in this game yet. Its easy to split hairs, but harder to find the right one with whom to do it rewardingly.

For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

If I do die today, my final wishes (If I get any) are to lynch tinki and Arjey immediately. Arjey, this is my first game ever on Newerth, I should think that should be blatantly obvious. You always post short, and you have band-waggoned against me, with me when my pressure was lightened up, and then now against me once more when my votes start stacking up. You give rather unclear reasons and contribute next to nothing.

Shit. I made a mistake due to Moxy's weird posting times. I would've posted who I have targeted (which I will do below) before, but I thought Moxy was talking to me when he said

1. Did you use your ability on Moxy in N3 or N4} The nights he got blocked?

2. Who else did you visit?

1. No I didn't. N3 I didn't because he didn't seem like he needed cleaning. N4 I didn't because assuming the blockers were mafia, I thought they wouldn't target him twice in a row (still something I find weird.) 2. N1: Moxy (I picked people who looked smart, and posted many intelligent things, which could eventually lead to correct lynches, therefore being a mafia target.)N2: Hakugei (Same Thing.)N3: IgorS (intelligent and long posts, could be a mafia target)N4: Skuggi (his long and very detailed post could alert mafia to him)

I would assume the second quote was a typo and it meant to be "2 nights in a row". But then the third quote makes no sense because who would ever expect that you are going to be blocked two times in a row?!

And why did no one else ask Moxy about this yet?

I have seen at least one more inconsistency during the previous days but that one I will prefer to keep to myself for now.

Typo and a mistake, your right its only 2 nights in a row, unfortuantly you might find it supicious, i wouldnt blame you, but yeah first was typo, and then when u went to find out how many nights i got for confirmation i checked with my typo not my emails.

just thinking about this, wasnt there a no kill first night i got blocked, i suppose the blocker could be townie, something i still doubt, but anyhow, and just tried to block me again to see if there was a no kill again, kinda stupid to be honest, because any smart mafia players would just use someone else for the kill. but there you go....

For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

If I do die today, my final wishes (If I get any) are to lynch tinki and Arjey immediately. Arjey, this is my first game ever on Newerth, I should think that should be blatantly obvious. You always post short, and you have band-waggoned against me, with me when my pressure was lightened up, and then now against me once more when my votes start stacking up. You give rather unclear reasons and contribute next to nothing.

Shit. I made a mistake due to Moxy's weird posting times. I would've posted who I have targeted (which I will do below) before, but I thought Moxy was talking to me when he said

1. Did you use your ability on Moxy in N3 or N4} The nights he got blocked?

2. Who else did you visit?

1. No I didn't. N3 I didn't because he didn't seem like he needed cleaning. N4 I didn't because assuming the blockers were mafia, I thought they wouldn't target him twice in a row (still something I find weird.) 2. N1: Moxy (I picked people who looked smart, and posted many intelligent things, which could eventually lead to correct lynches, therefore being a mafia target.)N2: Hakugei (Same Thing.)N3: IgorS (intelligent and long posts, could be a mafia target)N4: Skuggi (his long and very detailed post could alert mafia to him)

your reasons makes sence, so for now, f2 Envious, the more you talk the more i think you could actualy be a townie.

On a side note. Skuggi might be fooling us too. First days he didn't pos a lot. He was just following the game. Not interfering going on facts. When the heat is up he makes a couple of extremely well focused posts. Which make him look like a townie without effort.

On a side note. Skuggi might be fooling us too. First days he didn't pos a lot. He was just following the game. Not interfering going on facts. When the heat is up he makes a couple of extremely well focused posts. Which make him look like a townie without effort.

I aggree, reading through 20 pages, Skuggi does post in the right moment, then he rights posts, which look very well thought conclusive and townie style and then he disappears again. In the moment we get aware of people not posting, he comes up and does his posts. Therefor, as Envious already said has said enough.

F2 Envious, F1 Skuggi

Another quite strange thing, Unsafe hasn't posted for some time, but is also active on the board ...

1. No I didn't. N3 I didn't because he didn't seem like he needed cleaning. N4 I didn't because assuming the blockers were mafia, I thought they wouldn't target him twice in a row (still something I find weird.) 2. N1: Moxy (I picked people who looked smart, and posted many intelligent things, which could eventually lead to correct lynches, therefore being a mafia target.)N2: Hakugei (Same Thing.)N3: IgorS (intelligent and long posts, could be a mafia target)N4: Skuggi (his long and very detailed post could alert mafia to him)

This is obviously not true. N1 happened before D1, so there was no intelligent post from Moxy yet.

This is obviously not true. N1 happened before D1, so there was no intelligent post from Moxy yet.

I wait for Envious explanation then, I see I might have understood it wrong, I concluded he choose people which he knows from newerth/ savage game daily bsns to be smart, intelligent... that is why I changed my vote, but as you pointed out, you can see it also as a inconsistency. Feel free Envious to explain.

Dervun what I meant was that for all of the below I picked people who I knew to be intelligent and active. Moxy is intelligent and active in-game and not only in mafia. I could only use prior information. Mind I see what you mean about skuggi, I want him to speak more, and it doesn't have to be with giant posts, just posts long enough that we can see any obvious mistakes and 'pounce'

Hmmmm...things getting hard here. I wanna hear more from ppl like Tjens, sasuke, skuggi, which didn't post to much yet.At the moment I do not know what I should think about Envious posts and his obv lie/fail she posted. She is trying to convince, that she is a townie and it obv works for her at the moment. Valli I don't think there is any sense in putting votes on another target like Skuggi the rest of the ingame day due to the fact we need information caused by pressure, kinda worked with Env, but will not work with Skuggi unless he gets a few more votes on him. Concentrate on Tinki or Envious!For the moment I am rly confused :D

1. No I didn't. N3 I didn't because he didn't seem like he needed cleaning. N4 I didn't because assuming the blockers were mafia, I thought they wouldn't target him twice in a row (still something I find weird.) 2. N1: Moxy (I picked people who looked smart, and posted many intelligent things, which could eventually lead to correct lynches, therefore being a mafia target.)N2: Hakugei (Same Thing.)N3: IgorS (intelligent and long posts, could be a mafia target)N4: Skuggi (his long and very detailed post could alert mafia to him)

This is obviously not true. N1 happened before D1, so there was no intelligent post from Moxy yet.

good catch. the post below just seems to be a mafia trying to cover his back because...

Like I said - I waited for Envious and Tinki to come up with a role claim. I think Envious looks dodgy with his. "WTF YOU'RE A MAID??" was my first reaction, but I'll lay it off for now becouse I think Tinki is being even more suspicious. The only thing he seems to do is cover his own *ss and is not targeting other people, thus not trying to figure stuff out. I got a strong hunch he's a traitor - he's reclusive as hell, does not contribute and only talks when he's targeted himself.

F1 Tinki

Also why the hell am I concitered inactive - I post more than you guys do, lol.

People we should take care of the next few days due to their less posts or hiding in the shadows following everything silently!

Winterfresh

Yeah well excuse me for having a life. :-P

Anyways, I want to see more from tinki. A lot more. He has been trying very hard to give as little detail as possible so my vote is still staying on him. Hell, I am almost convinced that he is BBB. He may be new to this game but that excuse only works so far.

Is it mafia of me to be hoping someone desides to write up summaries of what's actually happened so far today and what roles have been Claimed? I remember someone doing that in the previous game and if they are good they could probably sway a few votes the way they want.Ah well, lll be home in a few days and then I can go back through and take notes. I was never able to keep things straight before the number of players was down to 15. All the more reason for me to live at least a few more nights.

Looks like you guys want a role claim. I am a nomad cleaner. Every night I may go the room of my choosing and clean their room of anything that Is placed there, like a democharge or what have you.. I get no info back about whether I have found something or not.

For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

If I do die today, my final wishes (If I get any) are to lynch tinki and Arjey immediately. Arjey, this is my first game ever on Newerth, I should think that should be blatantly obvious. You always post short, and you have band-waggoned against me, with me when my pressure was lightened up, and then now against me once more when my votes start stacking up. You give rather unclear reasons and contribute next to nothing.

Shit. I made a mistake due to Moxy's weird posting times. I would've posted who I have targeted (which I will do below) before, but I thought Moxy was talking to me when he said

1. Did you use your ability on Moxy in N3 or N4} The nights he got blocked?

2. Who else did you visit?

1. No I didn't. N3 I didn't because he didn't seem like he needed cleaning. N4 I didn't because assuming the blockers were mafia, I thought they wouldn't target him twice in a row (still something I find weird.) 2. N1: Moxy (I picked people who looked smart, and posted many intelligent things, which could eventually lead to correct lynches, therefore being a mafia target.)N2: Hakugei (Same Thing.)N3: IgorS (intelligent and long posts, could be a mafia target)N4: Skuggi (his long and very detailed post could alert mafia to him)

The role you claim strikes me as a defensive one. I imagine most items that would be around in the game would have offensive capabilities (e.g. you mentioned a demo charge). However, taking a look at the roles of the five dead players, only Robin5Hood (Spire Gardener) would be someone who had items [although I didn't catch his role declaration so someone would have to confirm]. Also, I have no clue what a Glider Patrol's job would be. The point I'm trying to make is that items don't seem to play a big part in this game. That could be wrong, considering there are 18 players I don't know about..

About your targets. I believe they're likely to be true. Moxy said he knew who was in Hakugei's room on Night 2 and for all you knew he was talking about you. He hadn't said that he was referring to someone else and you didn't know he didn't know about everybody who was there. This is based on the assumption that you aren't both BBB and that you've been following the discussion.

If what you claim about your role and targets is true then I'm very inclined to think you're a townie. As I said, the role is probably a defensive one and you've used it on two players I know are townies (myself and Hakugei).

I still have my doubts though. Dervun points the following out and Envious' explanation is quite dubious.

This is obviously not true. N1 happened before D1, so there was no intelligent post from Moxy yet.

Dervun what I meant was that for all of the below I picked people who I knew to be intelligent and active. Moxy is intelligent and active in-game and not only in mafia. I could only use prior information.

Another thing I'd like to point out, the role Envious claims could very well be a cover for something else. He says he doesn't get any feedback about what he finds or doesn't find so it's very hard to confirm or refute. It might very well be a cover for another role, perhaps some kind of investigatory role. He's been targeting a few people and he claims there's nothing to report on them. While I'm not sure if a first time player like Envious can come up with that (I certainly wouldn't) I'm curious if the mafia wouldn't work out some kind of covers for each one of them?

Either way, it's something to think about and I don't think I'll remove my vote for Envious just yet.

Secondly, on to Tinki. I'm not sure what to think about him as there isn't much material to base on. To sum up his role:

Tinki claims to be a human hermit. In case he's subject to another player's NTA his animals wake him up and tell him about it. Right?

I don't really know how this works. It could potentially be useful if it tells him specifically who used an action on him, for uncovering BBB spies and stuff. Could you be more specific on that, does it tell you who it was? And if it does, do you have any info to share?

I stand by my previous analysis that I find it more likely than not Tinki is a townie, as he hasn't specifically done anything to prove me wrong. I'd still like answers to those questions.

On a side note. Skuggi might be fooling us too. First days he didn't pos a lot. He was just following the game. Not interfering going on facts. When the heat is up he makes a couple of extremely well focused posts. Which make him look like a townie without effort.

Well, if there's one thing we know it is that we should never fully trust anyone. I'd say that it's perfectly reasonable to question anyone's motives. I do, however, find it curious how quickly you throw your vote in, Valli, with nothing to support your vote except for a brief comment from Mind.

Hmmmm...things getting hard here. I wanna hear more from ppl like Tjens, sasuke, skuggi, which didn't post to much yet....Valli I don't think there is any sense in putting votes on another target like Skuggi the rest of the ingame day due to the fact we need information caused by pressure, kinda worked with Env, but will not work with Skuggi unless he gets a few more votes on him. Concentrate on Tinki or Envious!

Assuming Moxy is telling the truth, why would you want that revealed, Feathers? I'd presume to confirm Moxy's claims that he knows who it was, and that Moxy has the role he's hinted at having. But this does beg the question, Feathers, what were you up to?

Mafia don't just skim posts they are critical and analysis, you know this the best as you're considered a "veteran" of the game, so don't give me that bs.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As people have pointed out Envious/Arjey/tinki, one of them is a mafia or atleast believe one of them to be and as the day draws to a close i suggest removing one, before the mafia win, (as we aren't lynching anyone, looking at the last game it was D3 when someone was finally lynched), so far the healer (if hes still alive) has been keeping us in game.

@skuggi, it wasn't until Igors pointed out that i was wrong, that moxy posted

he says he knows who was in Haku's room. Him being a spire gardener, my educated guess is he used an item like a flower or something. I don't know how else a spire gardener could scout, assuming Robin was telling the truth (the bastard was always unclear).

Hmmmm...things getting hard here. I wanna hear more from ppl like Tjens, sasuke, skuggi, which didn't post to much yet....Valli I don't think there is any sense in putting votes on another target like Skuggi the rest of the ingame day due to the fact we need information caused by pressure, kinda worked with Env, but will not work with Skuggi unless he gets a few more votes on him. Concentrate on Tinki or Envious!

he says he knows who was in Haku's room. Him being a spire gardener, my educated guess is he used an item like a flower or something. I don't know how else a spire gardener could scout, assuming Robin was telling the truth (the bastard was always unclear).

I'd like to request Robin5Hood's role. If Daemon caught it and removed it before anyone else saw it, that's great and we don't need it. If some people saw it and others didn't, that seems slightly unfair. I can send an e-mail if that's preferable.

he says he knows who was in Haku's room. Him being a spire gardener, my educated guess is he used an item like a flower or something. I don't know how else a spire gardener could scout, assuming Robin was telling the truth (the bastard was always unclear).

I'd like to request Robin5Hood's role. If Daemon caught it and removed it before anyone else saw it, that's great and we don't need it. If some people saw it and others didn't, that seems slightly unfair. I can send an e-mail if that's preferable.

Daemon distributed roles then explains each one fully after the game, I've already asked Daemon what was a Spire Gardener.

If you look at the first page it does say Robin was a student Chaplin though.

Personnaly i think i said enough about Envious. His role most likely favors Mafia, even if it were on Towns side - that's illogical, hence he is Mafia. This game features around 8 Mafiosi, out of which at least one will be a traitor.The killer won't leave an object, the godfather maybe, but i highly doubt it. This leaves us with max 5 scumbags using objects.Now let's check on the examples Envious gave:- demorunners: Unless Mafia has the chance for two kills in one night (i don't think so), this role doesn't exist or is pro-Town- sensors: Sounds like a powerfull tool for investigations, rather related to Town

No matter how you twist it, if some Townies use objects, he is on the Mafia side. Check the roles from previous game on Newerth, every powers similiar to his were on Mafia side. I understand Daemon never uses the same setup twice, but changing the side of roles without a good reason seems very far fetched

Furthermore, his explanation on his target for N1 is bogus, nothing to add on this one.

This is as safe as a lynch can possibly get. I suggest my fellow Townies to vote Envious off. I'm glad you guys are talking about other options, but let's face it, with less than 20 hours left until deadline, we will either lynch Envious, Tinki or noone. Envious is the better choice here.

I can imagine there's a very powerful (single time) NTA of placing once a democharge into s/es room. still it seems slightly op to me. nonetheless I give out my F1 Tjens, since I'm drunk and I don't understand his keeping of the Tinki vote. I think some BBB are already pushing Tinki's bandwagon, knowing he's not one of theirs. He still could be a traitor, but I think I believe his role-claim, especially rewarding his obvious newbie status.

In all fairness, assuming me and tinki have an equal chance of being mafia (from your point of view), Which player is more valuable to the Townies? Tinki, who hasn't contributed anything, unclear and short posts, or I, who actually tries to find truth, and posts often and contributes ideas?

I read the last pages carefully and Dervun is absolutely right, Faun it makes no sense to vote for anyone else then Envious or Tinki as we have just 10 hours left so you may think about your vote again.Dervun's post makes sense for me!Can someone make a vote-count pls, so I can set my vote!

Devrun, you seem to be right.I'm between voting for Env and not voting at all. But why shouldn't BB members have items?There might be something like potions, and since Haku was a Glider, it's possible an evil mech-engineer exists. Using stuff like slippery oil etc. Your item reasoning does not count from my point of view. However the N1 explanation is ominous indeed.

I'm glad there's some time left. I'll to reread the last pages carefully and then vote.

after reading through everything i have decided to F1 Envious his explanation of using his nta night 1 is dubious since i aint active in savage, and after dervuns post i agree with what he said. I'm sorry envious.

Moxy, I knew you were intelligent before hand because you need to realize you have 1000+ posts on this forum. I didn't use info about activity in-game, I also used info of stuff on the demo forum and here. with 10 hours left there isn't much I can do, and I understand that you are all voting for me because you want to lynch tonight. Arjey yet again agrees, I bet a hundred imaginary dollars you didn't actually read the last ten pages. Once more, when I'm not here I suggest you keep an eye on arjey and tinki..

Dervun what I meant was that for all of the below I picked people who I knew to be intelligent and active. Moxy is intelligent and active in-game and not only in mafia. I could only use prior information.

But it seems that envious has enough votes for a deadline lynch so I guess I'll just watch. I'm a bit nervous about it as with any lynch that is not coming from reliable nta results. Perhaps a mafioso would be more careful not to mess up his nta record like that. But hey, he's the best bet tonight, my fingers ad crossed.

Well I guess keeping my vote on Tjens doesn't make any sense. F2 Tjens. Since Envious is over the count for deadline lynch anyway and theres no need for an instant lynch as I see, I keep it with that. Still I'm nosey what this evening will bring...

One last thing I would like to bring to light which I'm still curious about. Why would a townie force Dervun to vote for me when he was going to vote for me today anyways? He clearly said he thought I was the most suspicious several times. And why would a mafia force someone to vote for a mafia? So maybe the vote force is a lie (so that Dervun isn't questioned on why he is so adamant about me) meaning that Dervun might of investigated me?I wouldn't be surprised if the latter was true, so that Dervun doesn't have to reveal he is an investigator of some sort to everyone (including the mafia). Why would anyone waste a rather important NTA on someone which was already going to vote me in the first place?

BBB's fanatical devotion to the cause of eradicating the beasts from Newerth was legendary. There was nothing they would not do, in order to achieve their purpose: lying, killing, sacrificing one of their own for the cause and even cleaning rooms! In the face of such formidable foe, hard men crumble, absent hope.

The peaceful congregation was being hit hard. Their trust seemed shaken. Their future seemed bleak. Their fate seemed sealed. But then they started fighting back. They used word, they used thought. The faith - and fate - they shared was their weapon. By the day's end, it appeared that they had managed to form a coherent majority.

Surprised this was really happening to him, Envious was speechless. He didn't resist being blindfolded, and carried for miles into the heart of the forest. Sounds were getting faint, light was getting dim, when they stopped. Silently, the others walked away, without a word being spoken. He used the bone knife they had put in his hand to cut the rope his hands were tied with, and then he took the blindfold away. The twilight was ending, implacably, and from all around him, shadows were getting longer and longer, and closer, and closer, and faster, and faster, then the silence broke. The forest was speaking to him in the most disconcerting tones. Pairs of red, glowing eyes were gathering around him, as he was closing his. "Is this the end?" he thought. And then he thought no more.

The BBB were not deterred either. In their quest to achieve total extinction of the beast race, they had managed to leave another corpse behind. Although this time, it was not decapitated, their slain foe was lying down, in front of the monastery. An unlikely mix of clerical garments on a sleek, muscular, feline body. Who could possibly be able to kill this hardened and wise beast? And, most importantly, what can stop him? Certainly, poor Moxy couldn't.

I wanted to ask IgorS something, can you tell me why you didn't voted on Envious, you said 1 time that you are almost convinced but you wanted to get more information, after Envious posted more you never casted your vote.

For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

If I do die today, my final wishes (If I get any) are to lynch tinki and Arjey immediately. Arjey, this is my first game ever on Newerth, I should think that should be blatantly obvious. You always post short, and you have band-waggoned against me, with me when my pressure was lightened up, and then now against me once more when my votes start stacking up. You give rather unclear reasons and contribute next to nothing.

I would go for a straight attack on Arjey, because of his confusion and opps my mafia buddy is about to get lynched, time to join the bandwagon to avoid suspicion. Was Envious trying to protect him, i don't know.

I wanted to ask IgorS something, can you tell me why you didn't voted on Envious, you said 1 time that you are almost convinced but you wanted to get more information, after Envious posted more you never casted your vote.

I was on a trip to Latvia Thu-Sun, and generally away from computer most of these days, so I missed some of the chances to do what I wanted in this thread. However, I got my fair share of playing as well. For example, the following post was intended to taunt the BBB.

I expected someone to remove their vote in the last moment and I was waiting and ready to put my vote instead. That would be a win-win situation:1. If someone removes their vote in the last moment, that increases suspicious against Envious, gives more confidence he's BBB.2. And at the same time it reveals another BBB member.3. And yet we still lynch Envious (assuming only one BBB removes his vote) because I replace his vote with my vote.

For me Envious is just getting more suspicious with anything he posts and his role was BBB last game as well!

If I do die today, my final wishes (If I get any) are to lynch tinki and Arjey immediately. Arjey, this is my first game ever on Newerth, I should think that should be blatantly obvious. You always post short, and you have band-waggoned against me, with me when my pressure was lightened up, and then now against me once more when my votes start stacking up. You give rather unclear reasons and contribute next to nothing.

I would go for a straight attack on Arjey, because of his confusion and opps my mafia buddy is about to get lynched, time to join the bandwagon to avoid suspicion. Was Envious trying to protect him, i don't know.

I think arjey is the most suspicious now, he wants pressure on envious like many others, the boat changes direction only a couple posts later(when he changed his vote to tinki, even in envious's defense it said to vote for tinki and seemed like arjey agreed with the one who he is attacking, makes them both viable targets), and he votes for tinki like many others because he doesn't care if they are mafia or townie because he doesn't like his playing style.. Yet why would any townie say that when the townie numbers are dwindling night after night, we need the people alive to keep in the game. He would obviously know he is townie if he is mafia. So my vote is now on arjey.

f1 arjey

Mopok said that last day, that was his reason for going Arjey, I think that is a good point.

@Envious -> Arjey: I thought about the same, that it is a bluff from Envious to hide Arjey.

Annother thing, the discussion with moxy and you talking about who visited haku's room is also not talked through, or did I miss it?

@Leo -> Tinki: Did leo even post more than one or two statements, he wen't just straight for tinki and didn't respond to it anymore, I guess will say you haven't been that active again ... whatever ... I don't believe this not active things anymore ...

I expected someone to remove their vote in the last moment and I was waiting and ready to put my vote instead. That would be a win-win situation:1. If someone removes their vote in the last moment, that increases suspicious against Envious, gives more confidence he's BBB.2. And at the same time it reveals another BBB member.3. And yet we still lynch Envious (assuming only one BBB removes his vote) because I replace his vote with my vote.

ad 1) I don't think BBB is that stupid, so weak argument, I bet they have talked about such situations and how to handle them.

ad 2) Yes true. Read above again.

ad 3) Ok granted.

All together I understand what you meant, but I don't think we deal with stupid BBB, so I'm not totally satisfied with your explanation.

I wanted to ask IgorS something, can you tell me why you didn't voted on Envious, you said 1 time that you are almost convinced but you wanted to get more information, after Envious posted more you never casted your vote.

I was on a trip to Latvia Thu-Sun, and generally away from computer most of these days, so I missed some of the chances to do what I wanted in this thread. However, I got my fair share of playing as well. For example, the following post was intended to taunt the BBB.

Oh and another thing, on one hand you say you were on a trip, and not that active, but on the other hand you were sure to replace a vote... ok ... it's abit contradicting.

All together I understand what you meant, but I don't think we deal with stupid BBB, so I'm not totally satisfied with your explanation.

Now I have a bad memory but I think there was a situation like that during the first mafia game. Two mafias withdrew their votes in the last moment. As a result they were lynched in the following days. I also think it was mentioned during this game, I would not remember that otherwise.

Oh and another thing, on one hand you say you were on a trip, and not that active, but on the other hand you were sure to replace a vote... ok ... it's abit contradicting.

Yes I got home, read through all the posts of that day, amongst other things counting the correct amount of votes. Posted the summary. And remained online for several more hours, beyond the end of our day. Hence able to monitor the topic and cast my vote if there's a need to do so.

I would normally expect everyone to understand the obvious details like that.

It looks to me they're not that stupid aswell. Moxy was one of the only ones I trusted to be a townie, seeing him getiing killed is a bad sign since they seem to be going for active, experienced people.

Getting Envious killed is nice! I guessed the least active guy was the most suspicious one to me lol, kind of contradicting myself there from earlier statements.

That's sais, I can't guess the reason why he picked Arjey next to Tinki to raise attention on? It could either be a bluff to protect Tinki, us assuming Arjey is human and all - or a way to shift our focus on Arjey, as if he's protecting him. Or just to raise confusion?? I'll look through Envious writing style a little more, and check if his last desperation message deviates from his usual posting.

Sorry i was so inactive, i am skiing in a big race and i broke my hand today :( i will try to be as active as possible, and as i said last i still think arjey is very much so suspicous, from his voting style and trying to just blow off attacks aimed at him by using faces. I will continue my vote on arjey to today.f1 arjey

So from thursday to sunday[...]but then you are home at Saturday, when the day ended.

For me trip to Latvia means trip to my parents home for 3 days. It means I'm out in the town rushing to do things I can do only once in several months. And not sit in front of computer. Apart from evenings, of course. :)

I'm eagerly awaiting when you start asking me to prove whether I was actually on a trip, whether I didn't lie about the days, whether that was indeed Latvia, and similar questions.

So from thursday to sunday[...]but then you are home at Saturday, when the day ended.

For me trip to Latvia means trip to my parents home for 3 days. It means I'm out in the town rushing to do things I can do only once in several months. And not sit in front of computer. Apart from evenings, of course. :)

I'm eagerly awaiting when you start asking me to prove whether I was actually on a trip, whether I didn't lie about the days, whether that was indeed Latvia, and similar questions.

Although I share the suspicions about Arjey, I would also like to understand what happened between Feathers and Moxy. One of them clearly lied. Now that Moxy was killed, we know his role (converted stalker) which is not BBB and very likely not a traitor. Previous game Daemon was explicitly using a word "traitor" when writing down the official roles. That makes me believe Feathers was the one who lied, not Moxy.

I do not understand why Moxy said that, when i wasn't there, the only reason i can give was he hit back at me to relieve pressure, when i was pressuring him about his role. Remember Robin claimed to know who was in Hakugei's room....which i believe led to Hakugei saying Moxy was in his room? (on phone so unable to view any previous pages, sorry)

Looks like Envious saved my life tonight, which is great, because my role collapsed this morning, leaving me without further NTA. BBB, you can tell your blocker to suck it, what he did won't change anything.

From the scratch:N1 i investigated Mopok, because i had absolutely no experience with him. It's highly likely he is clean.N2 i investigated Moxy due to a hunch and he came up innocentN3 i investigated Envious, but i wasn't able to read him at all. Wondering why, i pushed against him, as i wanted to know if i receive correct results and if this is a usual result for an investigation on a BBB member. Rest of the story is obvious, Robin commited suicide D3 and i continued on D4.N4 i investigated Arjey and he is innocent, he just plays it the Mafia way (that's why i chose him in first place).N5 i investigated Leodasvacas and he is guilty. This was pretty obvious, he was active, but his only actions were to draw attention away from him. He tried to stall the game.

Therefore: F1 Leodasvacas

To conclude some more..When Daemon handed out my role he said i was already old and weak. It didn't occur to me it had meaning in it, but it has. The level of aggressivity in Leos room broke me, for the rest of the game i will have to sleep during nights, hence becoming a regular Townie.However, this night i also found out about the Mafia blocker. He starts a fire outside of his targets room, resulting in a wall of flames. The target can carry out his NTA, as i did, but won't be able to do it next night, which is in my case somehow funny. This also means Moxys blocker was indeed a Townie.

Btw, last day we lynched the Master Assassin. I guess that's why Moxy wasn't decapitated. Leave it to an unexperienced killer and the setup won't be impressive anymore!

I might come up with my opinion on current events later, as i was mostly skimming through todays posts. Though i can say now, from reading Feathers last post, it seems he is Mafia.

I don't know how Env saved your life, Devrun, but I follow you since you were the initiator of our first successful lynch and seem to have a promising hint due to your NTA.Also, Leodasvacas' reasons to vote Tinki were pretty weak.F1 Leodasvacas

F1 LeoThis is great news, my hats off to dervun. Now we have solid results, or at least they seem solid. We kill Leo and if he turns up innocent we kill devrun, one guaranteed BBB in the two of them. And hopefully the BBB will spare devrun tonight because he's already spilled the beans and has no further abilities.

why aren't you colouring your votes? F1 leodasvacas. Think we can be pretty sure on this, since his silent, but nonetheless present playstyle fits perfectly for mafia. Concerning my NTA, I think daemon has to laugh his ass off about my actions :|, hard to tell tho.

I don't know why you doubt me. Right now i am the least suspicious player around, mainly due to the fact that i lead the cause against a BBB member.

This is not the way a Mafia plays, even if he is desperate to gain the Towns trust.

My interpretation of my NTA result is that Leodasvacas is Mafia. There is a 0.0001% chance i misinterpreted that and a slightly higher chance i receive incorrect results. So if Leodasvacas turns out to be Town, which is still almost impossible, then i still am pro Town and one of the most trustworhty players. Anyone who still wants to threaten me should reread D4.

Igors, i have my suspiciouns about you. You mostly stay in the shadows, helping out with analysing posts, but you rarely vote. Votes leave patterns, if someone isn't voting at all that makes me think he is Mafia. Your ploy at the end of last day can be seen as working both ways.It sure is possible to catch another scumbag like this, but we will never know if it really was your decision to place the last vote in case someone else removed his. I'm inclined to believe you though, as a calculating person on the Mafia side would rather nail the coffin to gain some trust, than risking one of his buddies to remove his vote, which would lead to Envious + this person to get caught.

Pizlo, you also rarely vote and you prefer to rate the importance of night time events over the talking. It's not your first Mafia game, by now you should know that it's not the way to play. We get most of our clues during the day.

I don't know how Env saved your life, Devrun, but I follow you since you were the initiator of our first successful lynch and seem to have a promising hint due to your NTA.Also, Leodasvacas' reasons to vote Tinki were pretty weak.F1 Leodasvacas

It's pretty simple. Envious' impression was me being an investigator, which is correct. Telling this with his last words he wanted to ensure that his colleagues get rid of me. What he didn't think about was the fact that the cop is the most important person on the Towns side and should be protected by the healer. I guess the BBB didn't want to risk a killfree night. He also unwillingly confirmed that the player who forced me to vote for Envious is peaceful (else he would have known about it).

Feathers, i'd prefer to hear your role. I don't see a scenario in which a lie from Moxy makes sense, only possibility is he mixed something up. I assume you are lying. To strengthen this: F2 Leodasvacas, F1 FeathersAfter your role claim i will switch my vote back to Leo, but for now i would like to get as many conclusions as possible out of this day. I don't care for a role claim from Leo, as he is guilty in my books.

Although I share the suspicions about Arjey, I would also like to understand what happened between Feathers and Moxy. One of them clearly lied. Now that Moxy was killed, we know his role (converted stalker) which is not BBB and very likely not a traitor. Previous game Daemon was explicitly using a word "traitor" when writing down the official roles. That makes me believe Feathers was the one who lied, not Moxy.

Further more I think Dervun was successful. Hence why I'll follow him on Feathers. But I still don't trust Arjey. But as Dervun says he's town I'll believe him. on the other hand IgorS is still someone I don't like. Faun also tricked us last game.

As we are sharing. I can only say that Valli and Dervun are not BBB. (Don't know about traitor though.)

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB. Feathers has the votes for a role claim, I want to see what he says before placing my vote, F3 for now.

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB. Feathers has the votes for a role claim, I want to see what he says before placing my vote, F3 for now.

Wait, I don't get it. Dervun, have you been blocked and couldn't use your ability last night? Or have your items been picked clean or something like that and cannot use your abilities anymore at all? I recall someone saying to have the ability to take items away.

Wait, I don't get it. Dervun, have you been blocked and couldn't use your ability last night? Or have your items been picked clean or something like that and cannot use your abilities anymore at all? I recall someone saying to have the ability to take items away.

I think he explained it very well, he was/ is weak and old. The effort to check on leo was too much and now he is too weak to use his powers anymore, and has to sleep at night. At least that is what I got from it?

From the scratch:N1 i investigated Mopok, because i had absolutely no experience with him. It's highly likely he is clean.N2 i investigated Moxy due to a hunch and he came up innocentN3 i investigated Envious, but i wasn't able to read him at all. Wondering why, i pushed against him, as i wanted to know if i receive correct results and if this is a usual result for an investigation on a BBB member. Rest of the story is obvious, Robin commited suicide D3 and i continued on D4.N4 i investigated Arjey and he is innocent, he just plays it the Mafia way (that's why i chose him in first place).N5 i investigated Leodasvacas and he is guilty. This was pretty obvious, he was active, but his only actions were to draw attention away from him. He tried to stall the game.

Dervun, when you say Mopok and Arjey are innocent, with how much certainty can you say that? I'm mostly curious about Arjey at the moment since, like you said, he plays very much like a member of the mafia. I am inclined to take your word for it as you made sure Envious was caught and lynched and what you said about calling him out on Day 3 is correct (see here (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg168557.html#msg168557)).

I believe voting for Leodasvacas is a good bet, and it does make sense. He's been very inactive in posting anything of substance. For example:

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB. Feathers has the votes for a role claim, I want to see what he says before placing my vote, F3 for now.

What exactly does your 'lame role' involve? A role name by itself means very little, so explain yourself.

On a side note. There are now 6 votes on Leodasvacas, if Valli's count is correct. While we might go for an instant lynch in this case I don't think we should do so just yet, there are things to discuss.

Igors, i have my suspiciouns about you. You mostly stay in the shadows, helping out with analysing posts, but you rarely vote. Votes leave patterns, if someone isn't voting at all that makes me think he is Mafia. Your ploy at the end of last day can be seen as working both ways.It sure is possible to catch another scumbag like this, but we will never know if it really was your decision to place the last vote in case someone else removed his. I'm inclined to believe you though, as a calculating person on the Mafia side would rather nail the coffin to gain some trust, than risking one of his buddies to remove his vote, which would lead to Envious + this person to get caught.

That's the way it works for me. I generally dislike casting votes unless I'm confident the particular guy is mafia. I tend to accumulate suspicions until I think there's enough to throw it out in the open (which corresponds to Dervun's earlier description about silent mafias with walls-of-text, but feel free to check how I played in game 1 when I was a townie). And as you saw with Moxy previous game my confidence can by over-hyped and misleading.

About the last moment votes. People, I am surprised at how narrow minded are your evidences in regards to identifying the mafia. In my book only the first 2-3 people can get the credit for lynching the mafia. And in case of todays situation only Dervun might get it. (On the other hand, if Leo is not mafia, then all those who voted will be blameworthy).

You need to be the one who started the pressure. If you're the one who joined the bandwagon with 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc votes then you're just going with the flow and your vote is not nearly as meaningful. You might as well be a smart beast with common sense who sees that your colleague has failed his arguments, it's the matter of time to finish him off. And in case of Envious that was obvious from the very start. Not obvious that he's a mafia but clearly obvious that he can't defend himself properly by merely trying to say he's sorry for what happened before and redirect the heat.

And if you're amongst the last people to vote then generally no action will make a difference for you. If you cast your vote then you're susceptible of being a mafia who tries to cover his own ass. If you do not cast your vote then you're susceptible of being a mafia who tries to cover the ass of your mate hoping for a wonder. Now whatever you do you will get more suspicious (the best way is to get lost and not post at all I think, pretend you're afk). There's no point what you choose in regards to your own reputation and there's no point in regards of whether the particular guy will be lynched (he already has enough votes). So given the chance and time it's clearly the best choice to wait around and see if anyone "changes his mind" in the last moment.

For example, the following people lynched Envious previous day: Dervun, Skuggi, Feathers, Mind, Moxy, Valli, Arjey.Amongst them the real credit goes to Dervun, several pages later Mind and Valli also followed him. After that I would give less credibility to people who joined the bandwagon.

At the same time: Moxy, Mind and Valli removed their votes shortly before the end of the day, in most cases because "I'm confused" or "I need to think about it". That automatically makes them more suspicious. They added their votes back later, but did they have a chance to do anything else? Anything else would make them highly suspicious. However, this kind of removing-adding votes was still enough for them to get on my short list of notable facts.

On the the behavior of Envious. Look at the people who were being attacked by Envious. Once again, I expect there were both townies and mafia he was pointing at. It is likely the majority of them were townies with one or two mafias squeezed in between. We want to look at any statements he makes, not only his official votes.

Another person that fits into that category would be Tinki, which is pretty much self-explanatory.[..]I would also kindly like to request more people like Arjey and Faun to post more... Explain yourselves!

The idea of looking beyond votes also has a slight connection why I didn't vote against Feathers at the start of the day, I merely mentioned he's suspicious. I would prefer to see his first reaction while he's not yet under obvious pressure (which is no longer possible after Valli and Dervun voted against him with a lot more severe wording). You can always see how he behaves under obvious aggressive pressure, we have 5 days for that.

Wait, dervun i do trust your judgement on your nta and i know you are not able to quote demons Emils, but what makes you so sure Leo is à mafia? Besides THE fact you have to rest NOw?

I am so sure due to the differences between Leo and the other players i investigated. Leo also confirmed my investigation, the reason why i didn't write more to how i achieve my results is to keep BBB members in the dark. It turned out positive, seeing Leo claims to be a creepy Scavenger.. nothing creepy is described in my report and the word itself isn't to be found.

Wait, I don't get it. Dervun, have you been blocked and couldn't use your ability last night? Or have your items been picked clean or something like that and cannot use your abilities anymore at all? I recall someone saying to have the ability to take items away.

Oh boy :-oThe item removing ability was Envious' claim, only it wasn't true. Something like this could have been Metjims role, but that's only speculation.The block i experienced would count for next night. I guess i was noticed about it, because i had to make it through the wall of fire first in order to use my NTA. The mail i received contained two parts, first described the blocking, second everything concerning my NTA.Good news is, that Mafia won't be able to block the same player twice in a row and vigilantes can't be blocked.Valli is almost right about why i won't be able to use my powers anymore, just it was the experience of investigating Leo, not the effort.

Skuggi, i was very surprised when i found out about Arjey, but he is either the Godfather, a Traitor or a Townie.

ok, first of all i have an internal deadline for some work, so this is the post i can make til tomorrow.

Now, my role is the sensor-man, i have three disposable 'one-shot' sensors. At night i go and place a sensor where ever and it tells me if the person went out.Where one was dropped:

N1: Dervun >>he went out.N2: Hakugei >>he went out.N3: Didn't drop oneN4: Leodasvacas >>he went outN5: None left to use

I'm now what Dervun is, a regular townie and i suppose i kind of back Dervuns claim up, that Leodasvacas did indeed go out.

And the reason which i can suggest is why i have only 3 sensors, is that im a trainee investigator, i suppose Moxy was the boss, just the irony is now my dead boss could lead to me being lynched later.

Clearing something up, i was never inside Hakugei's room, only close to it to drop my item beside the door.When Moxy was alive i was hostile towards him, with the slim hope of obtaining some detail, i needed to know whether he was lying and without any sensors at my disposal i could only use what he gave during the day.

"I do not understand why Moxy said that, when i wasn't there, the only reason i can give was he hit back at me to relieve pressure, when i was pressuring him about his role." why i said this? Read the above paragraph.

Moxy must have been watching the room when i passed and placed the sensor. Technically i was never in the room.

Im getting the feeling that the hostility between me and Moxy is being played on.

As we are sharing. I can only say that Valli and Dervun are not BBB. (Don't know about traitor though.)

For me it sounds like you're trying to name somehow respectable people in order to gain everyones trust yourself. I don't know why did you pick Valli though.

You can pursuit me if you want. But like I've said earlier there are only two person I trust. And those two are valli and Dervun. I've been able to trust dervun ever since I figured out the story. I never trusted Valli but he can't be BBB. He can however be a traitor. But that counts for Dervun as well.

Another note: I even trust you less now IgorS. Seems like you are targeting me after I mentioned you as untrustworthy. I'm not being charged at the moment. Two others are. Why are you trying to get me on the list too?

As we are sharing. I can only say that Valli and Dervun are not BBB. (Don't know about traitor though.)

Sharing some more info on the Vallli bit would be helpful.

I can't. I've already made a point important. Something I clearly had to know. In order to be able to determine it. I've tried to figure it out during the days. If you can't find it, you missed a rather big argument.

BTW, the moment you target a player, the probability is high that a person sees it Feathers. Moxy most likely spectated Haku his room. You went to Haku. He saw it.

I find it strange that your ability is so limited. I mean a 3 times NTA that only gives you intel about leaving the room. That role tends to be present but tends to be unlimited. I really have no clue why Daemon would limit the following ability. And trainee often means that your ability grows after your master dies. Or that you are worthless untell your master dies. You claim Moxy was your master. Why hash't your stock been refilled then?

I find it strange that your ability is so limited. I mean a 3 times NTA that only gives you intel about leaving the room. That role tends to be present but tends to be unlimited. I really have no clue why Daemon would limit the following ability. And trainee often means that your ability grows after your master dies. Or that you are worthless untell your master dies. You claim Moxy was your master. Why hash't your stock been refilled then?

I find it strange that your ability is so limited. I mean a 3 times NTA that only gives you intel about leaving the room. That role tends to be present but tends to be unlimited. I really have no clue why Daemon would limit the following ability. And trainee often means that your ability grows after your master dies. Or that you are worthless untell your master dies. You claim Moxy was your master. Why hash't your stock been refilled then?

Read my role from the first mafia game...i had a relocator...

Valli you saying i can create magic contridicts Moxy's statement.

If i could make magic why would i be out of my room?

Igors "I looked for it but I didn't find it. Where exactly did Dervun say that Leodasvacas went out?" It didn't.

"Wrong. If you followed the thread you would know he followed you during the night."Where does it say that?

I can't. I've already made a point important. Something I clearly had to know. In order to be able to determine it. I've tried to figure it out during the days. If you can't find it, you missed a rather big argument.

I have also noticed some unimportant details about Valli which you might have missed. Which made me watch him very carefully, for a reason. :)

No Feathers, you tell me your real role, and not the thing you brought up, apperently you can do both magic and going out, you know it yourself anyway, the results I got are straight, you initiated magic in your room in night #4.

This game starts to look nice for the Town! We have one Mafia identified and one almost revealed.

Feathers, i do not understand you. You accused Moxy of lying, but while claiming your role you proved him right. You should know, that visiting a house is, in terms of gameplay, the exact same as entering.

I do not understand why Moxy said that, when i wasn't there, the only reason i can give was he hit back at me to relieve pressure, when i was pressuring him about his role. Remember Robin claimed to know who was in Hakugei's room....which i believe led to Hakugei saying Moxy was in his room? (on phone so unable to view any previous pages, sorry)

Knowing the difference between entering and visiting isn't important is a start, you denying your presence means you weren't visiting.

Clearing something up, i was never inside Hakugei's room, only close to it to drop my item beside the door.When Moxy was alive i was hostile towards him, with the slim hope of obtaining some detail, i needed to know whether he was lying and without any sensors at my disposal i could only use what he gave during the day. ...Moxy must have been watching the room when i passed and placed the sensor. Technically i was never in the room.

Last part indicates you were only visiting, but not entering. It's a contradiction to your previous statement.

Moxy has the habit of expressing himself very unclear, but after i precisely asked and got the reply his role was to follow a specific player during the night, you should have known two things.1. Moxys role2. Accusing Moxy of lying only makes you look like Mafia

Furthermore, your and Moxys role, are very similiar, though yours isn't as powerful. It's another hint towards you being pro BBB, seeing that Moxy was innocent.

Vallis claim just tops it off. He accuses you of lying based on his NTA. If you are a Townie who was lying repeatedly, come clean now. I don't think it will save you, but it will be best for the Towns wellbeing.Valli, maybe you should specify a little. I'm quite unsure what use your power is supposed to have.

Nonetheless, as promised: F2 Feathers, F1 LeodasvacasAnyone who places the 9th vote on Leo before the other discussion is finished will look very suspicious!

What statement are you referring to? Moxy said you were in Hakugei's room on Night 2. Now Valli claims you cast magic on Night 4. That does suggest you have a somewhat versatile role. Also, you're starting to contradict yourself and that never looks good:

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB. Feathers has the votes for a role claim, I want to see what he says before placing my vote, F3 for now.

Do you have any interest in saving yourself? There are currently 7 votes for you, so far you've only told us your role name, 'Creepy Scavenger'. I'd still like to hear what it does, and what you've been up to for the past nights.

Sorry for missing a lot and seems the town made some big jumps lately. (i will try to type little because my hand is broken :( )

Leo is almost 100% mafia in my eyes, but lets keep this day going and see some more clues, if we can recover some more.

I still think arjey is suspicious, but my vote means almost nothing for now since we have been focused on feathers and leo. I will just keep my vote where it is for now because my vote will not change anything really from what it is now.

It's kind of disappointing that nearly anyone we lynch doesn't give out any resistance, with the exception of Envious, who was mafia. But then again, each guy we lynched, without resistance was townie. And this time everyone seems very aggressive about it. I just hope we don't have another dead townie on our hands, that would raise my suspicions about you, Dervun, though, by not a large margin since, you did iniciate Envious's demise.

I'm still a little conflicted, but either way, we can't just sit idle...

If Feathers is either BBB or traitor, his allies might finish Leo with instant lynch now. And then Feathers gets a night to discuss his line of defense. I want to hear his own explanations about his role today, not the result of collective effort tomorrow.

Only mind is saying he can completely trust Valli, should we all listen to what they say? For all you know they could be both mafia, playing as a team(which is what they should be doing or following some pre-plan atleast.)

Also i remember on the Romanian Mafia forums, were i was a townie who was a locksmith yet Randolf(i think) managed to convince the entire forum to turn on me, believing that his role was valid, even though he was a mafia investigator. I'm just smelling Deja vu.

It's a different situation. You lied before when you denied your appereance at Hakus. Now Valli accuses you of another lie, based on his NTA. The usual approach is simple: we lynch you. This doesn't apply in our situation, because we still have a better target with Leo.

Valli, please share all your results with us, so we can see if more people claim your results aren't correct. I don't think you will give very much away.

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB.

We all saw Daemon having "useless" roles before. For instance, it was my role previous game when my NTA was not working and I did not know about it. But Leo-s role sounds non-sense. If there was someone who is falsely identified as BBB, then he would receive some other powerful abilities from Daemon at the same time to even it out.

I can't see a valid reason for Feathers to "confirm" Dervuns suspicions about Leo. Based entirely on the fact he went out.

3 red votes means I have to say my role, from what I understand. I'm a Creepy Scavenger, a rather lame role wich makes me look like BBB for all the effects, except not actually being BBB. Devruns information is probably true then, bad luck we didn't catch actual BBB.

Reading what he said, I think Leodasvacas just posted the name of the role and then said that if he were to share what it actually involves "he'd look like a BBB member". I've been trying to get him to explain further, but he seems to have accepted that he'll be lynched tonight and can't be bothered.

I don't think we should even try speculating on what his role might actually be if he won't even try to save himself..

About Feathers, that's another thing. Something just doesn't add up. For example, at first he said Moxy was lying about him visiting Hakugei but later he explained that he didn't enter his room but placed a sensor somewhere near it.. what?

Clearing something up, i was never inside Hakugei's room, only close to it to drop my item beside the door.When Moxy was alive i was hostile towards him, with the slim hope of obtaining some detail, i needed to know whether he was lying and without any sensors at my disposal i could only use what he gave during the day.

Night #1: I checked on Haku: No magic used in his house.Night #2: I checked on Mind: I saw an attempt to use magic.

At that point I had a wrong understanding of my role, I thought magic means instantly that the person has to be a BBB, but that hasn't to be the case. That is also the reason why I pushed mind on day two, as you can read again if you want. I realized then, also after talking with Daemon, that magic doesn't necessarily say that you are BBB or not, as also townies (according to the story) can use magic.

Night #3: I checked on happy: No magic used in his house.Night #4: I checked on Feathers: It told me that feathers initiated magic.

So Feathers once again, why did you use magic? You still haven't answer, the only explanation you bring is that I am not trustworthy, but I am not the one who is lieing around here, keep that in mind. Still I aggree you can't trust anyone, but you get yourself into contradictions and you apperently lie, as Moxy stated, and as I do as well.

If the outcome should be, that you can't perform magic (which when I look at my investigation is somewhere close to 0) then the others can feel free to lynch me.

Coming now to the last night:

Night #5: I checked on Moxy: Results, there was alot of magic in his house -.-

About Feathers, that's another thing. Something just doesn't add up. For example, at first he said Moxy was lying about him visiting Hakugei but later he explained that he didn't enter his room but placed a sensor somewhere near it.. what?

Clearing something up, i was never inside Hakugei's room, only close to it to drop my item beside the door.When Moxy was alive i was hostile towards him, with the slim hope of obtaining some detail, i needed to know whether he was lying and without any sensors at my disposal i could only use what he gave during the day.

When Moxy was alive i was hostile towards him, with the slim hope of obtaining some detail, i needed to know whether he was lying and without any sensors at my disposal i could only use what he gave during the day.

Moxy was alive on the 24th as quoted i was hostile to them, because i had no way of knowing what he truely was.

I can offer no further explaination and clarification from Moxy because hes dead.

Okay let me rephrase it for you all, I think killing Feathers is the right way to go, we can kill leo next day (or if we have a cop nad he finds the target worthy enough he can do it). That has nothing to do with mind, that is my personal opinon, and Feathers you bring up one try after another to say that I am the lieing one and that I have some conspiraton with mind running, if that is your approach of geting out of your lies, then so be it, the others might judge you for it. My vote stays on you, you are the way better target then Leo, which hasn't brought up anything. You are almost reacting like Envious, pointing on the others to get you out of the situation. You know where it got Envious.

guys I'm drunk and all - anyway it's true that leodasvacas is an easy game. maybe we should concentrate on him, get the day on and there will be another townie eaten by BBB at night, leaving no more clues. Otherwise, theres the chance to get more clues, get another BBB and to eat leo the other day, this makes me join valli's point. Still I'm into these kinda things. Still got a lot of achievements to go.

I am the cop in case you didn't notice yet and i already went to Leo. A vigilante is a person who can kill at night once a game. Finishing the confirmed Mafia is always the best, no matter how evil someone else seems to be. That's why Leo shouldn't survive the day, a vigilante can take care of Feathers nonetheless.

What confuses me about Valli is, that he found magic at Moxys. I doubt Moxy was able to use magic, after all he was only a converted stalker.I can tell about Arjey that he has something to do with magic, something that makes him look innocent. I didn't receive information on Moxy about magic, though that is not my speciality.

Valli, can you also give your role name? I have a hunch, but i'm completely unsure about it.

My vote stands, Letting a for sure mafia live, who may be able to use an ability and who definitely can talk with the rest of the boys tonight, is not smart. Just because his phony role is useless doesnt mean his real one isnt important.

Pizlo, you also rarely vote and you prefer to rate the importance of night time events over the talking. It's not your first Mafia game, by now you should know that it's not the way to play. We get most of our clues during the day.

We're about to lynch a for sure mafia based on your NTA, And we can trust it because of your NTA proving true with envious! At this point I dont see how you can say relying on this results is the best way to lynch mafia. Earlier in the game, going off how people played during the DAY we lynched two innocents and got only one mafia.

With the way Feathers chose to defend himself it looks unlikely that he's innocent and it looks unlikely that he is going to say anything else beyond accusing Valli from this point on. I suppose we can end the day soon if nothing changes.

By ending a day I mean giving the remaining 3 votes to Leo. I also think we should lynch him first because Dervun's NTA result is stronger than our day-time suspicions, although it's an arguable choice. Shame we can't lynch both of them in the same day.

If you like you can kill me and discover that I'm human. Which would speak Valli clear as well. (Like I said, he can still be a traitor)

The BBB are a ruthless brotherhood of human xenophobic killers, so saying you're human doesn't mean you're one of the good guys. Do you want to rephrase that?

On topic though, I agree with IgorS, the evidence against Leodasvacas is stronger so my bet would be to go with him now. If we do have a vigilante, that person is going to have to decide for himself whether to attack Feathers now or wait. Isn't it possible the BBB had some kind of protector and would be able to thwart the attack? It's also possible metjm was that protector, he was a chaplain.

Pizlo, those 2 weren't exactly lynched, as they commited suicide by quoting the mod. Though i admit, both were about to get killed.

The problem remains: only talking gets the game going and gives players clues about who to use their powers on.

I'll exaggerate a little, but if all would play it your style, we wouldn't stand a snowballs chance in hell:First days we end without lynchOne night an investigator finds something, first Mafia dies Everyone goes silent again, until next NTA resultMeanwhile, BBB picks Townies of one by one. They are faster than the investigators, if those even survive.That is the best case scenario btw :wink:

People can still talk, and by who they align with and who the mafia kills much can be learned. I'm saying it's extremely easy to be deceived by talk, I've spent games as a traitor (IMHO completely undetectable) and as a mafia (I did some dumb stuff then but still made it to the end) because I just spent the day the same was I would as if I were a townie. I don't think it's difficult.

Perhaps I just don't have the skill and attention to detail to figure out who's pretending by just reading text, You probably do as your hunches have led you to investigate some important targets so far. I can respect that, but it's not my play style. I'm more of a follower than a leader.

So, at the moment I'm going to get lynched on the result of one person NTA.

The point that too many of us has over-loked.Magic was supposedly done in my room, Valli how do you know it was done specifically by me?you claim that magic was done in a room, suggests you don't know whether the person did magic or magic was done on them, why are you pinpointing accusations on me? If you did wouldn't you have been told that moxy did/didn't cast magic? Not that magic was cast in his room?And why has no-one followed up on Mind that he too supposedly can cast magic?, imo im being targeted by valli, and hes not giving the full story.

My Theory:Moxy had magic cast upon him by townie, healer?, only thing i can think of, which would mean that the healer only had a certain percentage to make his magic work.I was subjected to magic myself, possibly by either townie or mafia. Possibly the healer on N4

In general i like theories. Unfortunately Feathers' isn't worth anything.

Feathers, to make it clear: your premise(s) is (are) false. - Valli explicitely expressed he saw you using magic. That makes one of you lying.- A healer without having a 100% chance of saving his target? Come on. Last one i saw who made up such bs was Pizlo, when he was clearly (only got away cause of Moxys noobiness :-P) Mafia.

Seeing as night is coming, i want to share a list i have in mind (posting it now, because i'm quite unsure about surviving the night).

Mafia:- Leo- Feathers- Sasuke

Likely to be Mafia:- Winterfresh

Undecided: - Faun- Happy- Pizlo- Tinki- Tjens

Likely to be Town:- Valli- Mind- Igors- Unsafe- Skuggi

Town:- Mopok- Arjey- Dervun

Some are facts due to investigations or generally scummish behavior (hi Feathers), others are caused by a gut feeling. To give an example, Sasukes posts aren't really of substance, what was to be expected, but also neither as funny with certain clever remarks. It's like he doesn't want to commit in what's going on.Notice: this is only my personal list, at least one or two will be in a wrong spot.

Valli, we have one BBB member who got investigated and more or less admitted to be evil and one BBB member who was caught lying twice.My personal opinion is we should go for the confirmed scumbag over the 90% one.

Valli, we have one BBB member who got investigated and more or less admitted to be evil and one BBB member who was caught lying twice.My personal opinion is we should go for the confirmed scumbag over the 90% one.

- A healer without having a 100% chance of saving his target? Come on. Last one i saw who made up such bs was Pizlo, when he was clearly (only got away cause of Moxys noobiness :-P) Mafia.

:D I had to go reread that part of that game, good times. Perhaps my creative idea gave Daemon some new role ideas. But of course I know that's BS, I'm more sure than ever that feathers is scum aswell.

The inhabitants of the peaceful settlement were gaining momentum. Inspired by yesterday's accomplishment, they have rallied once again against a common foe. This time, it was Leodasvacas. He used to keep quiet, lurk in the shades, always fiddling and tinkering, repairing a door knob, fixing a stove... but his definite favorite things were clocks. He seemed more interested in these than finding the people responsible for the deaths of already too many innocent people.

But, he too, was given the treatment Envious received. What had become of him - nobody knows. He never looked back when they blindfolded him. He seemed at peace with himself. But alas, somewhere, not too far, barely noticeable, a clock was ticking... tick, tock... tick, tock...

Tip of the day:At times, there may be events like rules being broken which are not as game breaking as quoting the mod, for instance. In those cases, various punishments might be applied, and/or re-balancing compensations for the opposite team are given. Neither of that happens if players play fairly.

In front of the monastery, a gruesome display of vengeful actions. Blood was dripping from a severed head, shoved on the well known stake. But interestingly enough, Arjey's headless body was enveloped in newly formed shroud of vegetation, sprouted literally overnight.

But that wasn't the only casualty. At one point during the night, a loud bang could be heard. The settlement inhabitants rushed to their windows, too scared to walk outside to investigate. Somewhere, from within the village, a thick, green, almost fluorescent smoke was dissipating. When the morning came and they did a headcount, they noticed Tinki was missing too. Quickly checking his room, there was no sign of any explosions. Instead, neatly tucked in his own bed, looking mighty dehydrated and weak, Tinki was laying dead. Next to him, a goodbye note. Blank.

Arjey, Nature Shaman, is beheaded by the BBB.Tinki, Human Hermit, has committed suicide.

Tip of the day:Although not very frequent, there are roles that can switch sides, in case certain events occur or if there are recruited by other roles with such abilities. There are also roles that can receive a new set of skills if they manage to accomplish a task like locating the owner of a specific role amongst the other players.

So, at the moment I'm going to get lynched on the result of one person NTA.

The point that too many of us has over-loked.Magic was supposedly done in my room, Valli how do you know it was done specifically by me?you claim that magic was done in a room, suggests you don't know whether the person did magic or magic was done on them, why are you pinpointing accusations on me? If you did wouldn't you have been told that moxy did/didn't cast magic? Not that magic was cast in his room?And why has no-one followed up on Mind that he too supposedly can cast magic?, imo im being targeted by valli, and hes not giving the full story.

My Theory:Moxy had magic cast upon him by townie, healer?, only thing i can think of, which would mean that the healer only had a certain percentage to make his magic work.I was subjected to magic myself, possibly by either townie or mafia. Possibly the healer on N4

Feathers, that just isn't good enough. He specifically said that you cast magic, not that someone else did it in your house. This is assuming Valli is telling the truth, but at the moment I'm going to take his word over yours. There have been inconsistencies, odd votes and odd reasons for those votes. That's why I'm going to throw in my vote: F1 Feathers

As far as I can tell, he hasn't cast a single vote and he barely ever says anything. Last game, if I'm not mistaken, Unsafe was relatively active as a townie and did actually take part. I'd say he's more likely to be mafia than town.

Easy to check whoever wants to. UnSaFe has a post on the first page, then just check his posting history.

Four posts on day 1, then two posts on each of the days 2, 3, 4 and 5...

Day 1: arguing that it's useful to reveal everyones roles.Day 2-4: nothing valuableDay 5: joined Leo bandwagon late in the day, then took his vote away when warned not to finish the day early...

I didn't count the posts of others, but it feels that these people are the ones which need to be poked: WinterFresh, UnSaFe, Sasuke. For someone Pizlo might be on that list too but *my* gut feeling is somehow more comfortable with him yet.

WinterFresh can be found on the second page of this thread. Has too many non-mafia posts, hard to read through the relevant posts. Seems to be somehow more active than Sasuke and UnSaFe.

Sasuke on the fourth page. Posted 4-in-1 + 1 =5 posts on day 1, all resulting in F3. One more post on Day 3 to cast F1 against Hakugei. Two more posts on day 4. And F1 on Tjens on day 5 without any explanations.

Reading Sasukes posts it actually feels he doesn't care about the game and is not reading the thread. There was already at least one occasion someone voted against Sasuke previous days and of course that did not yield any reaction. I wonder if he actually notices if we lynch him.

About sasuke, from what i hear and see around normally he is a loud character. So he could be one to look into, and unsafe also, but we have feathers on our hands right now and we seem to be fixed on him, no need for instant lynch, let us discuss others for next day. hmm to bad about arjey, although i did think he was a mafia. Kinda makes me look bad. but, never the less 2 townies one night ouch, really sucks we lose some of our numbers due to inactivity. For now I will place my vote for today on sasuke mainly on the suspicion of his inactivity and lack of interest, if he is townie he does jack squat for us, if he is mafia well all the better for the townies.

As far as I can tell, he hasn't cast a single vote and he barely ever says anything. Last game, if I'm not mistaken, Unsafe was relatively active as a townie and did actually take part. I'd say he's more likely to be mafia than town.

It's not like I can cast my vote now, I'm too late again, casting my vote now wouldn't benefit us at all.Also, last time I played I took part, yes. But if you follow that last game all my hunches were wrong, which ended up in me getting lynched. Besides, up until now there were no logical reasons to cast my vote on anyone, either they were posting nonsense or just casting votes and not giving explanations. Sure, you might say that's mafia behavior, but to me that's just stupid behavior(Arjey, for example, you would have lynched him, wouldn't you? Dervun was right about him, AGAIN). Up until we started following Dervun, we've been lynching townies.So If I'm gonna cast my vote it will be following Dervun's.

What Mind said is true - I'm human alright, but why would you want to bring race up? We already established BBB could be humans and beasts alike so it's like saying: Tjens likes coffee. He could be BBB! Just look at Tinki being a hermit for your last example.

I guess we still don't know if Tinki was a traitor or not, it does not seem a traitor role is spelled out in someones name so far. I still think.

I think our next target should be Feathers, for having a poor defence generally and the fact he could be lieing about his role. It could be BBB members ganging up and spreading lies about him though, and even Dervun could be wrong on this matter.

My olde friend Sasuke has not been posting allot, not indicating he has another posting pattern, but more so that he's bored and does not want to play. Either we kill him or he's gonna be killed due inactivity. The latter will save us one lynching day.

Thus, Feathers is the most viable person to be BBB as we know of today, so might aswell focus on him first.

a quick band wagon on me and im unable to put a defence on because im at college. Shit. I ask you not to vote or post till i get home, the next f1 on me kill me screwing EVERYTHING UP. So it goes without saying the next f1 is probably mafia, if you're truly townie f2 me until tonight and re-evaluate your vote.

F2 FeathersBring it on. I doubt my vote will be on someone else at the end of the day.

Don't put too much hope into my actions please. I was successful with Envious and Leo, but that doesn't mean it will continue. After all, i was wrong about Arjey, i only investigated him because he was very suspicious to me.

So where to begin? The previous day, i would seriously ignore it. To be truthful i was bored and with the day period on weekdays and night period over weekends i was stuck for time to actually do anything. (no-ones fault of course, just unfortunate for me). I could have said to Daemon look mate kill me off, but i didn't as its selfish of me to do that when i understand some of you are enjoying this game and for you to lose an important figure role can be the pivot of the game. So I'm giving you everything i know....unless i die tonight or some fool who can't read gives me two F1 votes.

When Moxy applied pressure on me to why i was in Hakugei's room, i was there. At the time with the Leodavcas scenario i attempted to use a role that seemed minor and that i had used my NTA. At the time i was on the assumption that i didn't have to leave my room to perform my NTA, but i was wrong, hence the defensive approach from me, when Moxy was still alive. I suppose i could have gotten away with it if it hadn't been for valli's NTA saying i did magic, which i can do. So what am i? I am Arjeys other half. The other nature shaman, i make a shaman shield effect with 50% of the guy surviving, if Arjey and myself were to target the same character then he would be untouchable(basic maths 50%+50% = 100%)Night One i protected DervunNight Two i protected HakugeiNight Three i forgot to use my NTANight Four i protected DervunNight Five i protected Moxy >>>>Valli said there was magic, that was me but i failed in the attempt.Night Six i protected Dervun

But theirs something i don't understand. Valli: You knew Leodavcas was Beast but why were you trying to lynch someone you didn't know was mafia? Is it because you knew Leodavcas was your mafia buddy and you are trying to save him by keeping me in the picture?

Mind: Questions, How do you know Valli is a townie? (no time to quote you directly, but you did.) You said you were going to use your NTA on WinterFresh, why haven't you posted your result? What are you hiding? Valli claims you can do magic, what can you do? How do you know Tjens is human?

This is all i can post atm, see you soon. F1 mind I would like to know you role

Now, my role is the sensor-man, i have three disposable 'one-shot' sensors. At night i go and place a sensor where ever and it tells me if the person went out.Where one was dropped:

N1: Dervun >>he went out.N2: Hakugei >>he went out.N3: Didn't drop oneN4: Leodasvacas >>he went outN5: None left to use

How did you come up with that, did you just make it up? Dervun had already said he went out to investigate on N1, Hakugei was dead and can't confirm. Nevertheless, how do you know Hakugei and Leodasvacas went out those nights?

About the role you're claiming now, would you explain further how it works, you know what happens? Finally, if you lied to us before, why should we trust you're telling us the truth now?

I'm going to press you for answers to those questions.

And a question for the more experienced players; Isn't it odd there ever two players with exactly the same role, same role name? I seem to remember this being an issue in last game here on Newerth when Shagroth and Tjens both claimed the same role.

And a question for the more experienced players; Isn't it odd there ever two players with exactly the same role, same role name? I seem to remember this being an issue in last game here on Newerth when Shagroth and Tjens both claimed the same role.

I don't think it is. It makes sense since they can combine it this time.Yes, he still could be lying. But if he was he'd have an outstanding fantasy.

My Theory:Moxy had magic cast upon him by townie, healer?, only thing i can think of, which would mean that the healer only had a certain percentage to make his magic work.I was subjected to magic myself, possibly by either townie or mafia. Possibly the healer on N4

- A healer without having a 100% chance of saving his target? Come on. Last one i saw who made up such bs was Pizlo, when he was clearly (only got away cause of Moxys noobiness :-P) Mafia.

I got information which prove it isn't bullshit at all!

1st quote can explain, why Feathers lied about his role as long as he wasn't about to be lynched2nd quote is him coming up with a theory hard to believe3rd quote confirmes the possibility of his theory

I have to think about this a little, but my instincts say we should find another target for today. Mind can still check whether Feathers is human or beast.

As far as I can tell, he hasn't cast a single vote and he barely ever says anything. Last game, if I'm not mistaken, Unsafe was relatively active as a townie and did actually take part. I'd say he's more likely to be mafia than town.

It's not like I can cast my vote now, I'm too late again, casting my vote now wouldn't benefit us at all.Also, last time I played I took part, yes. But if you follow that last game all my hunches were wrong, which ended up in me getting lynched. Besides, up until now there were no logical reasons to cast my vote on anyone, either they were posting nonsense or just casting votes and not giving explanations. Sure, you might say that's mafia behavior, but to me that's just stupid behavior(Arjey, for example, you would have lynched him, wouldn't you? Dervun was right about him, AGAIN). Up until we started following Dervun, we've been lynching townies.So If I'm gonna cast my vote it will be following Dervun's.

About Arjey, I was suspicious of him and so were others, so I voiced my concerns. I wouldn't have lynched him just like that, there's a process for lynching. Dervun had more info and shared it among the rest of us. And note that the reason Dervun investigated Arjey was that he was suspicious of him as well.

But back to you, if your instinct in this game isn't good enough and the last one was so bad, that you think you won't make a difference in this one, why even sign up? This game isn't about sitting on the sideline and waiting for things to happen (unless it's in your interest to do so). I'm not concerned about you not casting any votes, it's about you not even trying to find the mafia. Sure, you could blame a lack of interest or competence, but there's another very plausible explanation, i.e. that you're one of them.

Well Skuggi, some people are less into replying to long-ass texts and more into thinking what is the best way of using your NTA after reading said texts. Though I guess you could blame that on laziness too. :lol:

My Theory:Moxy had magic cast upon him by townie, healer?, only thing i can think of, which would mean that the healer only had a certain percentage to make his magic work.I was subjected to magic myself, possibly by either townie or mafia. Possibly the healer on N4

If Feathers is either BBB or traitor, his allies might finish Leo with instant lynch now. And then Feathers gets a night to discuss his line of defense. I want to hear his own explanations about his role today, not the result of collective effort tomorrow.

If Feathers is either BBB or traitor, his allies might finish Leo with instant lynch now. And then Feathers gets a night to discuss his line of defense. I want to hear his own explanations about his role today, not the result of collective effort tomorrow.

Skuggi points out what is going on in my mind, I mean you say you go to other persons to protect them, so if you do that I can't see you doing magic in your house, because that would apperently be not possible. If you were blocked in night 4 why does it tell me then that you do magic in your house. Feathers something is not fitting ... really NOT fitting.

my role says nature, nature could imply grass, fire, water or whatever and i have shielded Dervun 3 times, Dervun what night was this wall of fire?Valli, i know it sounds weird but that's how it is. You and Moxy prove who i am. Moxy followed me and you saw me do magic in my room. As i said i did query this with Daemon and there no other way way to explain it its just what it is.

I'm a bit busy now, but those are my thoughts:Feathers can be a healer, but Mind will have an easy time finding out whether he is talking the truth. A shaman is a beast unit, finding out his race solves this mystery. I don't think he is a traitor beast, for the simple fact, that traitors can't communicate at night, he would have thought on his defense all on his own.

Feathers, wall of fire was N5Happy, Moxy got blocked by someone else (door locked, growling). This means we have two blockers.

you mention (dervun/valli) that i you will find out tomorrow...i will be dead tonight unless protected tonight by the chaplain.(on a side note i'll be using my shielding powers, if im not targeted)Use this day to find something else out.

Valli, i know it sounds weird but that's how it is. You and Moxy prove who i am. Moxy followed me and you saw me do magic in my room. As i said i did query this with Daemon and there no other way way to explain it its just what it is.

Yeah I saw you do magic in your room, and there is not one explanation so far, why that is so. What magical ritual did you do in your room? Can you tell me that. Concluding from what you wrote:You are a nature shaman, you can shield other people with a chance of 50% (the other nature shaman has to shield the same person as well).To shield you go to the persons house. If you get blocked you apperently can't go to the other persons house (or whatever block it is) and then you just are at home? Why are you doing then magic? Why?

Btw you can claim that Daemon said so, we will never know if you just claim it or if it is the truth till the end of the game or till you die, but don't think that with a "I queried Daemon" statement all is good.

I don't know whether being blocked stops me shielding, because it hasn't happened to me. And as i said i thought i didn't have to leave my room, but then Moxy said i did, unless he was lying and said that, to see my response(but he died, so no chance of that) On that night i did protect Moxy (i cast it, you witnessed it). Also if i had to move from my room, i should have seen Moxy's attacker OR suffered the same death as Moxy.

I don't know whether being blocked stops me shielding, because it hasn't happened to me. And as i said i thought i didn't have to leave my room, but then Moxy said i did, unless he was lying and said that, to see my response(but he died, so no chance of that) On that night i did protect Moxy (i cast it, you witnessed it). Also if i had to move from my room, i should have seen Moxy's attacker OR suffered the same death as Moxy.

1. If you're a healer it's entirely intuitive and clear that you will go to your targets room in order to protect him. If that is not true, I expect it to be explicitly written in your role description. Since you're not mentioning it, then it's not written. So I see no reason to doubt that you were in his room.

2. No, the night kills only apply to the specific target, not on the whole room. I looked up and even the demo charge from previous game does not mention that it killed everyone in the room. The only related ability I am aware of was your relocators from the previous game when it was explicitly stated that you will suffer the same effects as the owner of the room you're in.

I don't know whether being blocked stops me shielding, because it hasn't happened to me. And as i said i thought i didn't have to leave my room, but then Moxy said i did, unless he was lying and said that, to see my response(but he died, so no chance of that) On that night i did protect Moxy (i cast it, you witnessed it). Also if i had to move from my room, i should have seen Moxy's attacker OR suffered the same death as Moxy.

When Moxy applied pressure on me to why i was in Hakugei's room, i was there.

You specifically said you were in Hakugei's room, protecting him. As you can see, you confirmed what Moxy said so I don't see how he could've been lying. If that's your role, wouldn't you have to be in Moxy's room to protect him?

How did you come up with [your previous role], did you just make it up? Dervun had already said he went out to investigate on N1, Hakugei was dead and can't confirm. Nevertheless, how do you know Hakugei and Leodasvacas went out those nights?

About the role you're claiming now, would you explain further how it works, you know what happens? Finally, if you lied to us before, why should we trust you're telling us the truth now?

... but then Moxy said i did, unless he was lying and said that, to see my response(but he died, so no chance of that)

Moxy had NO reason for that, why do you wanna convince us once again, that he maybe lied ... I don't believe you, most likely I will put my vote back on you more sooner than later ...

I'm not accusing him of lying. Im trying to make sense of why i need to be in my room to cast magic THEN MOVE to shield another. Moxy said i MOVED to Hakugei's room, however you state i cast magic in MY ROOM

So, if he had to go to Hakugei's room in Night 2 to protect him, how and why did he cast magic in his own room in Night 4? Something doesn't fit.

Skuggi points out what is going on in my mind, I mean you say you go to other persons to protect them, so if you do that I can't see you doing magic in your house, because that would apperently be not possible. If you were blocked in night 4 why does it tell me then that you do magic in your house. Feathers something is not fitting ... really NOT fitting.

How did you come up with [your previous role], did you just make it up? Dervun had already said he went out to investigate on N1, Hakugei was dead and can't confirm. Nevertheless, how do you know Hakugei and Leodasvacas went out those nights?

About the role you're claiming now, would you explain further how it works, you know what happens? Finally, if you lied to us before, why should we trust you're telling us the truth now?

So where to begin? The previous day, i would seriously ignore it. To be truthful i was bored and with the day period on weekdays and night period over weekends i was stuck for time to actually do anything. (no-ones fault of course, just unfortunate for me). I could have said to Daemon look mate kill me off, but i didn't as its selfish of me to do that when i understand some of you are enjoying this game and for you to lose an important figure role can be the pivot of the game. So I'm giving you everything i know....unless i die tonight or some fool who can't read gives me two F1 votes.

I'm not accusing him of lying. Im trying to make sense of why i need to be in my room to cast magic THEN MOVE to shield another. Moxy said i MOVED to Hakugei's room, however you state i cast magic in MY ROOM

I'm not sure if I understand. So you're claiming that when you protect someone (I'm assuming you have no other roles than that) you have to first cast magic in your room, and then walk over to the other person's room (the one you're protecting)?

F1 Feathers because I think all of this story doesnt fit together, he's talking his own head off. I strongly believe in vallis version of savage techtree as a model for the role powers. Unless we don't have two of each kind of powers, there is no reason for two entropy shams. And wouldn't it make sense to have the human tech in the game aswell when its all about a group fusioning powers of both races? So... human side would need tech-related chaplains or at least roles aswell. Also doubled? I don't know if we are even enough players then, taken the already revealed roles as an example of the statistic relevance of techtree units versus the other possible roles aswell. Everybody of the left players had to be some sort of tech related then, because so many other roles are revealed already. I am, nonetheless I have no reason to believe there is a second of my kind. Dunno for sure, tho. I think there is only one of each kind, making Feather's role declaration a counterfeit.

I'm not accusing him of lying. Im trying to make sense of why i need to be in my room to cast magic THEN MOVE to shield another. Moxy said i MOVED to Hakugei's room, however you state i cast magic in MY ROOM

I'm not sure if I understand. So you're claiming that when you protect someone (I'm assuming you have no other roles than that) you have to first cast magic in your room, and then walk over to the other person's room (the one you're protecting)?

So where to begin? The previous day, i would seriously ignore it. To be truthful i was bored and with the day period on weekdays and night period over weekends i was stuck for time to actually do anything. (no-ones fault of course, just unfortunate for me). I could have said to Daemon look mate kill me off, but i didn't as its selfish of me to do that when i understand some of you are enjoying this game and for you to lose an important figure role can be the pivot of the game. So I'm giving you everything i know....unless i die tonight or some fool who can't read gives me two F1 votes.

So what am i? I am Arjeys other half. The other nature shaman, i make a shaman shield effect with 50% of the guy surviving, if Arjey and myself were to target the same character then he would be untouchable(basic maths 50%+50% = 100%)Night One i protected DervunNight Two i protected HakugeiNight Three i forgot to use my NTANight Four i protected DervunNight Five i protected Moxy >>>>Valli said there was magic, that was me but i failed in the attempt.Night Six i protected Dervun

I'm not accusing him of lying. Im trying to make sense of why i need to be in my room to cast magic THEN MOVE to shield another. Moxy said i MOVED to Hakugei's room, however you state i cast magic in MY ROOM

I'm not sure if I understand. So you're claiming that when you protect someone (I'm assuming you have no other roles than that) you have to first cast magic in your room, and then walk over to the other person's room (the one you're protecting)?

That's what the script says.

When saying "script". Do you mean your own quote above? Or do you mean your role description?

Not to defend anyone. But I do believe that if I target someone you'd see me leave my room AND see me cast magic in my room. That's the thing about "magic" based theme.

Also remember that Daemon said that savage is the basic line, but not excluding.

e.g: Keep in mind that Ophelia and Jera are important too.

About feathers I no longer know what to think. His new defense seems good. But he asked time for it. If he happens to have a % based ability it would be able to come up with such a story. Or if a fellow BBB has it. That's the advantage of lying and having many days to cover up the holes in it.

On a side note: I do believe that D is capable of making roles that complete each other. But I do not believe he'd give them the same name. Even more, roles that complement each other should be powerful roles. Weakened when alone, imba if cast together. But in this case it would be a healer, back up healer and 2 luck based healers. A game with 4 healing based roles? That is to much. I think the nature does other stuff than healing, in that case, Feathers would be lying.

Feathers, Arjey claimed nowhere he has a power with 50%. How are the percent chances decided? Does Daemon dice it, or is he deciding by guts? Why didn't he tell about something like this? I don't believe in the 50% chance. How would you ever protect the same guy to get the 100%? Could you communicate at night to coordinate your actions? If not, it would be a pretty worthless full buff, since you would never know about the efficience. As i know it, the powers just do what they tell. Maybe there are mighty roles with passive powers like the mafiaboss that can split some powers. These would be however limited to very few roles, a chance just seems to vague for me to be in this game.

Well, Feathers you shouldn't forget that I've also played mafia already and I know how hard it is to think of a proof role claim when you got no clue about how the normal townies look. Doubling an existing one is a comfy, but dangerous method to achieve this. Sure, Phoenix showed that I shouldn't push to hard relying on suspicious postings, since sometimes things just fit together to turn out wrong in the end. Nonetheless, you somehow seem to have adjusted your role a lot while the investigations and there are several points where one testimony stands against the other. Also, there is still no confirmation from anybody about roles having a % chance on their power. Until then, for me its nothing more than the point you made to make two of the same kind plausible. Arjey hasn't made any role claim, nor did he mention anything about his ability - I've searched his mafia posts for it. Also the targets you claimed seem to be rather easy to believe ones, not really risky if you had choosen these to support your role. This is where it all comes down to trust you or not, and inside this mafia game situation I think that I should better not. Your role claim calmed me for about 1 minute, then I started to doubt, this means much to me. If anyone could speak for the percent chance, or any other aspect of your role claim - like double existance, observations or anything else, my opinion could change. Its not that I want to lynch you at all cost, but at the moment I see no sufficiently justified point to draw my attention off you.

Mafia Wishlist:Mind>>>still hasn't answered my questionsIgorS>>>still quiet only answers when there's an opportunity to do extra damage or when threatened + kept his vote on meFaun>>> a 'Hunch'UnSaFe>>> following Dervun to remain off the lynching radar

I'm not accusing him of lying. Im trying to make sense of why i need to be in my room to cast magic THEN MOVE to shield another. Moxy said i MOVED to Hakugei's room, however you state i cast magic in MY ROOM

I'm not sure if I understand. So you're claiming that when you protect someone (I'm assuming you have no other roles than that) you have to first cast magic in your room, and then walk over to the other person's room (the one you're protecting)?

That's what the script says.

When saying "script". Do you mean your own quote above? Or do you mean your role description?

Ironically though, I will remove my vote from you. Entirely because we're once again 2 votes away from the instant lynch and it would be stupid to do it prematurely when someone posts a random vote without a reason.

F2 Feathers

I'm in Faun's club (Powerpuff Girls) and my vote will return back towards the end of the day unless anything changes. In particular, I would advise you to write a good long clean recap of all yur defense in one post. Writing it yourself, instead of quoting it from all over the place. Possibly, giving some references of your actions from previous days and explaining your behavior in particular situations.

I'm afraid otherwise I'll need to do that myself, actually, quoting you from all over the place...

How is that going to help you find out what race I am? Either your claim is a bluff to get heat started on me, like you've been trying to do since day 2 for some reason, or your role claim is a lie and you are another investigator like Dervun. Make up your name.

If you like you can kill me and discover that I'm human. Which would speak Valli clear as well. (Like I said, he can still be a traitor)

Also this. I think you just made the whole human thing up to get pressure on me. Diverting away attention from ungoing matters (Like Feathers/Sasuke) you are de-foccussing our effords to keep the pressure on people that are way more suspicious. That's either a rookie mistake, wich I doubt - or maffia/traitor like behaivour.

Also you mentioned me "playing a parralel game". What do you mean by this? (just curious)

I lol at you Tjens. You are so defensive over nothing. I say you are human. You say it doesn't matter what you are. That BBB can be human, beast or that it isn't even important.

Also Tjens. If you say I'm making a distraction by saying that you are human. I'm doing it very lousy. I merely stated you are human. Nothing more. If you are human you have a chance to be BBB. If you were beast you'd only have the chance to be a traitor. If the traitor is even beast.

Further more. If I'm distracting everyone from the main target. Why does our main target still have most votes on him? Why is it, that if I'm making a distraction, you don't haven a single vote on you?

Why are you on your guard? Why do you feel attacked? I didn't say anything untruth. I didn't assault you. I didn't target you. I didn't pressure you. I only gave a fact. A fact I wanted to share incase I died. If you were a beast, I would have told as well. But you aren't. Though luck wouldn't you say.

I'm more tended to vote for you now. Just because you feel as if you are in danger. While no one is on your heels. Except for yourself. What do you have to hide? Why do you need to retaliate for a simple fact. The moment you act suspicious people will know that there is a chance you are BBB. That's all. But in my opinion you are suspicious. But not suspicious enough to prosecute you. Or at least, not yet. I've always kept in mind you might have been BBB. Turns out your chance of being BBB has increased by being human. Did I say you were no. You are making it of it.

So why so jumpy? Scared?

On another note. I don't know what to think of Feathers. My vote rests on him unless someone knows, or has possible material, that could incriminate someone else.

I also do not believe feathers. 2 role claims, claiming a mirror role, claiming to be a healer with a certain chance of defending a target (I did that on ROmafia when I was scum, cmon, at least be original!). If the votes aren't there for his lynch tomorrow, mine will be.

-.- I feel like being defencive becouse you targeted me, just wanted to point out your wrong assumtions:

Quote

On a sidenote: Tjens is a human. So he can be a BBB.

Here you say race has some connection with being mafia. Also you go on and on about storyline stuff like Jereziah and Ophilia- like you said, it's not that important. It's also not a lauzy distraction, as you're making a whole new post about it with new speculative accusations, effectively drawning attention further away from the more suspicious players.

On the lower part of your post there are more ungrounded insinuations, again, I'm not in a defencive standpoint as much as I try to correct your assumptions, all while you fail to awnser any of my questions; how do you know I'm human while we already have an investigator in Dervun, and as an educating question: please explain what you see as a "parallel game"?

I really don't think we should start focusing on Mind at this point. It seems more like a last minute distraction than anything else. In my opinion it's clear that Feathers is mafia and his unwillingness to add more details underlines that. In addition the 'You'll be sorry' attitude seems to be used rather by the mafia than townies in my experience.

I really don't think we should start focusing on Mind at this point. It seems more like a last minute distraction than anything else. In my opinion it's clear that Feathers is mafia and his unwillingness to add more details underlines that. In addition the 'You'll be sorry' attitude seems to be used rather by the mafia than townies in my experience.

I'm a nasty little beast. As I'm so horny to Ophelia I got her ability to communicate with the undead. I conjure totem magic which lets me speak to spirits. The spirits haunt a person inner most deep thoughts. Then they return to me telling me what they saw in that heart (race).

Although the accusations were pretty much spelling doom for Feathers, he failed to put up the kind of defense he was expected to. The result was predictable: Feathers was blindfolded, carried into the middle of the forest, and left there to fend for himself. He did have a ace up his sleeve. He was well versed in the use of special roots and herbs, which he could imbue with the subtle rejuvenating energies that nature was so selflessly displaying to the trained eye. Who knows, maybe this is not the last they'll see of him...

Upon arrival back into the encampment, the group that had escorted Feathers into the woods made a disheartening discovery. Seated on his favorite rock, his back leaning against his favorite tree, with his favorite staff on his knees, Sasuke was not meditating, as they had assumed throughout the day. He was actually dead, and along with him, their hopes and dreams for a better tomorrow.

Feathers, Nature Shaman, is banished from the monastery.Sasuke, Phoenix-shaman, has committed suicide.

Winter was approaching, days were growing shorter. Less and less time to flush out the malvolent BBB, before the shadows of the night engulfed every corner and every hole, making it easy for the real animals to do their killing. Tonight's unlucky victim was all but oblivious to such matters. As a result, his head was up on the spike. One could argue he was relieved of parting ways with this cruel world where flesh rules over the mind, and not the way it should be.

Ya, 3 townies is some terrible stuff, our numbers are continuing to dwindle. Also sorry for being not active at the end of last day, had nationals. Well from whats been going on here we will need very solid evidence to even think of lynching someone, if we lynch a townie we are pretty much screwed. At least one thing could be good to look at, we lost so many townies if we guess we could have a better chance :(. Not really a good thing. At least now we can easily get role declarations if everyone is willing to push for these on other people.

We can start by getting a declaration from winter fresh. He seemed to slip into the shadows once the whole feathers thing went down, he could have done that knowing feathers was townie and he didn't want the pressure from the lynch on him so he wouldn't be suspected, but he still wanted that lynch so he voted for it, but didn't want any attention or anything to be about him.

Dude, I am just way too lazy to write dull, big-ass paragraphs. I'd rather save myself for the bullshit homework I keep getting at college. :-P

Anyways, this "shadowy", handsome dude you are about to lynch (assholes!) is teh Human Mastah Chaplain! I'm pretty sure you know what that means already. I have only a limited amount of potions to use which means I can't simply use my NTA any time I want. However, I will not disclose how many potions I have left since this would decide my usefulness in this game.

By the way, please excuse Pheonix, my student, for being so thick headed. I must have mixed up the ingredients in his chicken soup. :lol:

You might ask yourselves: "But Winter, why would you give up such an important role so quickly? Also, when will you honor us with your presence in-game?" I will not answer the latter because you are all a bunch perverts.

I have two reasons: 1) This game seems to be already almost at the end. I'm guessing that if another townie will be lynched then the game will most likely be won by BBB anyway. I might as well try to bring an undeniable role.2) Even if I failed my guesstimation above there have been so many townie suicides that I stopped to actually give a rat's ass anymore.

Oh and here is some extra info (though it's not like it actually matters anymore): someone blocked my NTA tonight.

I could make a list with my targets but I have over 1k messages in my mail box and I can't be arsed right now to go through them. I will still do it though if you guys insist.

Yikes, I was pretty sure Feathers was mafia (and I was hoping Sasuke was as well...). There could still be up to 5 mafia players left (including a traitor) and so we have to lynch a mafia member tonight or it could be over. I'm prepared to share my role if necessary.

One question, Winterfresh, would you mind telling us you're targets? You don't have to say how many potions you have left, just the ones you've used.

N1: Didn't use my NTA - Nobody was killed anywayN2: Used potion on Hakugai - Lucky was killedN3: Used potion on valli - Nobody was killed ---> Chances are he was a BBB target.N4: Used potion on Skuggi - Hakugai was killedN5: Used potion on Dervun - Moxy was killedN6: Didn't use my NTA - Arjey was killedN7: Used NTA on Dervun but then I felt kinda sick, fainted at my door and couldn't perform my NTA. I am pretty sure it was magic. - mind was killed (thanks for not making me waste a potion for nothing :lol:)

I am a beast, but one that came to the monastery to seek peace with the humans and to let the spirits inflame my inner light. Rather having fierily strengths, I have no real investigative power telling me things, my powers are more ways of interaction which unfortunately I couldn't bring to useful targets when I tried to. Some did nothing, some went unlucky (being lucky the same time). Most of my magic is exhausted, still there is a last word in my spellbook unspoken.

I am a beast, but one that came to the monastery to seek peace with the humans and to let the spirits inflame my inner light. Rather having fierily strengths, I have no real investigative power telling me things, my powers are more ways of interaction which unfortunately I couldn't bring to useful targets when I tried to. Some did nothing, some went unlucky (being lucky the same time). Most of my magic is exhausted, still there is a last word in my spellbook unspoken.

Uh, what? What do you do exactly? Who were your targets each night? etc. Need more info.

Well, then I need the votes. The rule is to rephrase ones role and I'm not willing to do this several times just because you feel like it. In my opinion my role is clear to read from what I wrote, maybe I should add that I had three powers in total, one use each.

In no particular order within each group. Based on Dervun's explanation, Mopok can still be a traitor, so I was throwing him around between "reasonable" and "not convincing" groups for a while (it's not that I *trust* people from "reasonable" group either). But I guess it's more important to catch mafias before we care about traitors.

This vote was supposed to go to UnSaFe but you can take it for now Faun, if you want to elaborate about your role.F1 Faun

As i said at the beginning of the day, and others also said, we need to have a successful lynch today or we kinda are screwed. So we need to get lots of back up from role declerations and now my suspicions are gone for winter and as others said about pizlo he has been on my list of suspicious for awhile, what the hell i am going to make a list right now.

From most suspicious to least suspicious.1. Pizlo has been quiet and I got a hunch for him to be mafia not much evidence on that besides that.2. Happy has been very quiet also not contributing for awhile and slipped into the shadows more than many others.3.Unsafe 4.Faun5.Tjens6.Skuggi7.Winterfresh8.Valli9.Dervun10. Igors11. Mopok (unless I tricked myself with an amazing bluff)

Can anyone explain to me what the hell his role is? I mean, c'mon, I'm not even drunk.

I just want to see his role name, what his NTA actually does and who were the targets during every night. Couldn't care less about the details such as "spirits inflaming inner light" or whatever.

What do you mean with "rather having fierily strengths, I have no investigative power"? That's like saying "rather having burgers, I have no painting skills". My Professional Communication teacher would literally lynch me if I said something like that. :lol:

"my powers are more ways of interaction" - How do you interact and with who (or with what)?

The rest of your so-called declaration was just that you failed to use your NTA effectively and that you have one more attempt left.

And as I said, you can vote on yourself without actually dieing. You didn't have to say anything if you didn't want to.

I saw now that I can tell you my rolename straight ahead, so:I am a learning shaman, my magic is fire (Still not the original wording from daemon because I'm not sure whats role name and whats already description. Shaman and fire is accurate, tho.)

On night two I raised a flameshield(this would have killed any trespasser) in my own door (yea I know this was kinda lame) Just thought I had to protect myself against the revenge for being loud at Tinki; I really thought he was a beast. I hoped there was enough attraction that there was some evil action against me, yet nobody showed up.

My other action was to raise a injuring flamewall at Dervuns door which was kinda big nonsense when I finally got on the next day that dervun has to go out to get information. Luckily things seemed to have found in order when he would have lost his power anyway due to his age and the room he was in. The injuring flamewall would hurt trespassers so they cannot use their ability on the next day. After I had used my "good" shield (which would have been devastating to dervun from what I know now) I thought this one could help in this way to push against BBB somehow.

Both powers kinda

My third power demands that I want to ask you townies the question if we really should show everything we have to the remaining BBB? They will know good whom to kill tonight.

If you look through my posts you will see why I'm not active that much anymore since the beginning. I fell like I've chasen wrongly all the people into death, no single of my clues turned out to be mafia, so I'm more into following consistent clues than to push.

Winter was suspect No 1 after D6 but now I'm forced to vote for him this day which raises doubts. BBB has once failed at Dev so I don't think they'd risk another member again. I'm also stuck in an exam period so I can't accuse you of being hardly available.

I understand your role now, Faun. One last question, your role name is "Learning shaman"? Sounds kinda weird to me. You can say your original role name. That doesn't apply to the quoting the mail rule.

I cannot confirm Faun's claim though it does seem rather plausible especially since he admitted to have used that NTA on you. You described your affliction (when you couldn't use your NTA) similarly to what Faun said. However, I want the true name of his role. Learning Shaman seems way too off. He could still be BBB pretending to be a beast which is why I find that name so suspicious.

Perhaps somebody can come up with a list of everybody who died and with their role names as well as with the role claims of the ones alive. I will do it myself later if nobody else is willing to.

Right now the next lynch will be a matter of win or failure. We need to get as much information as possible to do an accurate lynch which is why I am pushing so far for role declarations and night targets.

You know, if you can't confirm Faun it means at least one of you is BBB.

He placed the wall of fire on N5, same night you used a potion on me. According to his claim, you would have been burned as well.Be assured, at the end of the day my vote will be on Faun!

I don't recall being incapacitated that day. Are you sure it was at that night that you have passed through the wall of fire? Because if you are right, we may have found a target. I will check the mails again later on today to be certain.

However, I still think we should focus on more information gathering right now while we still have time. Then we can choose the most suspicious person based on their role descriptions and targets and lynch him before the end of the day. So far, Faun seems like the most plausible target because we don't have information on other people as well.

Lucky, Air Shaman, is beheaded by the BBB. [N2]Phoenix, Human Chaplain Student, has committed suicide. [D2]Robin5Hood, Spire Gardener, has committed suicide. [D3]Metjm, BBB Hateful Chaplain, has committed suicide. [D3]Hakugei, Glider Patrol, is beheaded by the BBB. [N4]Envious, BBB Master Assassin, is banished from the monastery. [D4]Moxy, Converted Stalker, is killed by the BBB. [N5]Leodasvacas, BBB Demorunner, is banished from the monastery. [D5]Arjey, Nature Shaman, is beheaded by the BBB. [N6]Tinki, Human Hermit, has committed suicide. [N6]Feathers, Nature Shaman, is banished from the monastery. [D6]Sasuke, Phoenix-shaman, has committed suicide. [D6]Mind, Spirit Shaman, is beheaded by the BBB. [N7]

So people had role names such as Air Shaman, Nature Shaman, Phoenix-Shaman, Spirit Shaman... and Faun has only "Learning Shaman" (ridiculous) which then he changed to just "Shaman" (out of the ordinary). Perhaps some of you might disagree but I personally find it rather suspicious.

I also checked my emails again and I wasn't incapacitated during N5 when I visited Dervun which should've happened according to Faun's description of his NTA. Another suspicious thing.

However, the element of fire is indeed a characteristics of the beast faction and since there is nobody else around claiming to be the author of the firewall on Dervun/an user of fire then I really doubt that Faun is actually a BBB member.

My personal conclusion is that Faun is a traitor at worst. At this stage of the game I recommend NOT lynching the traitor/traitors mainly because they are still counted as townies. And if I remember the rules correctly, if there are as many townies or less in the game as there are mafia then the game is over and the mafia wins.

Pizlo, you have enough votes for a role description. Please share with us all the information you have gathered so far.

I'd prefer if you can guess my third power for yourself (its easy I think) so I don't have to hang it out on the street.

You seem to see reason now, that makes me a lot calmer. I thought you were a mafia guy knowing that Im not on the list and for that reason trying to get a bandwagon going on an already suspicious guy. I hope I gained the humble folks' trust now and we can try to get a real BBB target for this evening.

I said before that role names don't need to be modified. You could just as easily have said you were a Fire Shaman. You made it very bad for yourself when you claimed to be a "Learning Shaman" which is a ridiculous role name.

It's very plausible that there's a Fire shaman in the game, considering there was an Air and Nature Shamans. Someone also said that he had been subject to some kind of fire magic earlier in the game, wasn't it you Dervun. So it would be very risky to claim the role, in case he wasn't a Fire Shaman, because someone in the game has fire magic. It also tells us that he's a beast and therefore not in the BBB. I suppose he could be a traitor, but it doesn't seem like a traitor role.

btw F2 Winterfresh not for being sure WinterFresh is not BBB(his pushing against me after being top votecount looked quite dubious to me, don't forget BBB know who is townie and who is one of theirs) but to bring pizlo to a move.

Well, after all this interrogation I guess it is safe to conclude that Faun is most likely townie.

F2 pizlo

Skuggi, since you are here do you mind telling us about your role? I seem to recall that you already said that you would be willing to do that. Pizlo has enough votes on him even without mine for a role declaration.

F1 Skuggi

And Faun, I was not pushing for a lynch on you. I was pushing for information. I guess it is fair from your point of view to think it is suspicious but we are running out of time and we need as much information as possible.

I am calling out everybody to give a role description and their night targets. Just ask for a vote and you can also vote on yourself. Stalling this will only mean our damnation. Thanks to the very high number of suicides from the townie side we cannot afford waiting another day.

Valli, the list is based on my intention. I did it spontaneously without reareading much.

My suspects #1 and #2 were Winter and pizlo because of their behaviour on D6. But I've become more careful about Winterfresh since I'm forced to vote for him. Therefore I moved him up.Unsafe and Faun are likely to be thugs due to their general behaviour during the game.My neutral zone consists of Tjens, Mopok, Skuggi and Igors who can be either townie or thug.Then there's you who's likely to be a townie and Devrun of whose innocence I'm very positive.

I have a full day tomorrow therefore I have to go to bed. I am requesting once more from those who are still around right now to share with us as much information as they can. This is the only conceivable way right now to establish connections between people and determine the most notorious people among us.

People are being way to inactive in giving role declarations right now. If we want to have a successful day we need these roles said asap so we can evaluate and make a move on them. It really is all or nothing this day, we don't lynch i am pretty sure we lost, we lynch wrong and we lose. We gotta make it good and come with it faster, for those who didn't know the day and nights have been made shorter so people gotta be more active. I think i recall day being 3 days and night being 1 day.

All right, I would've preferred to post my role after pizlo but it doesn't look like that's happening. I may not be able to post until late tomorrow so here goes.

I'm a water Shaman. My expertise in water magic have allowed me to create an ice staff. Each night I can go out and use my staff to cast a spell of Frost Bolts. As a result, my target is immobilized for the night.

The targets for the first two nights were pretty much random. Although, I found out that wasn't able to actually cast my spell on Faun. I got the explanation that once night came and I was going to Faun's room I fell to the floor with the feeling of being stung with thousands of needles and was unable to move for the rest of the night. So unless someone's hiding a bunch of needles I believe it was some kind of magic..Moving on. My reasons for blocking Moxy can be read in my large post on the previous day (see here (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg168548.html#msg168548)). However, his door was heavily guarded so I couldn't get in and just left. I don't believe I growled :-P I've been a bit suspicious of Tjens, pizlo and Sasuke for a while now so I targeted them, hoping to get some feedback, but there was none. I was also suspicious of Winterfresh, because of lack of posting.

Most of these have been guesses, trying to target quiet, unsuspecting people. But there's one thing that got my attention on Day 1, and that's the reason I wanted pizlo to declare his role before mine. Let's go and quote a bit:

And I still am surprised that noone has reported any strange happenings in the night. The BBB already knows what they did to each player, you're only exposing this information to the town, and I don't see it as much of a target, but suit yourself. Noone hindered me last night, does that tell the mafia I was the succesfull healer? nope, it's worthless to them.

I decided not to reveal myself at that point as it seemed he was trying to out the person who blocked him. Mind made a good point when discussing this with IgorS:

Say a person says that he didn't get blocked. Say you come forth and say you used a blocking ability in him. He can say in his turn that someone else protected him then... Two possible things can happen: - The protector says he didn't target him. (protector is in the open, and so is the blocker) - The investigator says only one person visited him. (investigator role and blocker are in the open)

As it seems to me, two valuable roles are in the open for the bad guys. Many more scenarios are possible but those two seemed devastating enough for me.

So Igors, why do you eagerly want NTA information on the first day? Is one possible but not certain Mafia kill worth all the information? I rather push a lynch vote on suspicious behavior than to pursuit a lynch by revealing so much information about our NTAs. Don't forget that everyone even has to co-operate for this to work. You think Mafia people will be the first to come forth?

I then targeted him again on Night 5 to see if I there wouldn't be another kill, i.e. if he was the mafia killer that couldn't failed to kill on Night 1.

Well excuse me for having a full day of school and then work, I said earlier in the 5 minutes I had before classes this morning that I would post tonight, time zones people.

well without further ado, and before I get to some of this homework... :-P

Arcana Keeper- I'm a keeper of books and knowledge of powerfull Arcana Magic. But the current state of events are grave so I have decided I must intervene. I have two Crystals that I may use, 1. One that gives a target the ability to perform his NTA action twice(on two targets) if it is physical, and 2. One that gives a target the ability to perform his NTA action twice(on two targets) if it is magic. The more promptly I email the mod, the more time there is left for the target to receive this information and act on it, naming a second target. And dont ask me why a librarian has crystals... :?

Last night I was going to use a crystal on mopok, mainly because devrun trusted him to be Town, Prior to dervuns findings I had no idea who I would use it on, using it on BBB would be wastefull and possibly deadly. But I learned then that I had to pick which crystal I use and if the taget did not have that type of NTA (magic/physical) then the crystal would be wasted. After finding this out I did not continue with my plan to use it in mopok (unfortunately now as it would have been a perfect confirmation. I did not for 3 reasons1. The exchange between me and Dae took most of the night, there was a chance Mopok would not even see it.2. I did not know what nature his NTA was and didnt want to risk 50/50 odds losing a possible valuable item. 3. I figured that many more NTA's would be announced/confirmed in the day or two to follow (and this has been very true)

And I still am surprised that noone has reported any strange happenings in the night. The BBB already knows what they did to each player, you're only exposing this information to the town, and I don't see it as much of a target, but suit yourself. Noone hindered me last night, does that tell the mafia I was the succesfull healer? nope, it's worthless to them.

I decided not to reveal myself at that point as it seemed he was trying to out the person who blocked him. Mind made a good point when discussing this with IgorS:

Yes, it could seem that way, but read carefuly, I was asking if anyone had anything DONE TO THEM, not done by them.

Also recall how I stated, and some agreed that day, that we would know if we got blocked even if we hant tried to use an active NTA. Daemon then had to tell us all in his Good night mod post that we in fact WOULD NOT KNOW. So it is clear when reading chronologically that I was under the impression that no email in the morning meant noone tried to block you PERIOD. I believe I later wrote a post saying it was a shame I was wrong about this. So use your head. If you blocked me, why would I say I hadnt been blocked? and I've stated the reasons I said that and they are perfectly valid, reread those old posts if you want to confirm that it was clearly how I understood the game at that time.

But I trust you are Town now because why would you say I was your target if I wasn't? especially since I had written long ago that I hadn't been blocked?

And I am quiet this game, but I do keep up with the reading and chart everyone's votes. I've been a bit overwhelmed to be honest, playing on the town side of such a verbose game, and being burned by seeing people I thought were BBB for sure wind up town. In the first newerth game I was a traitor and talked a fair amount, but generally confused everyone and made everyone doubt what I was. It was effective and Dae gave me some acolade at the end for playing on the edge the most. When I was the mafia boss on Romafia I talked even more, confused the hell out of people, and even though dervun had me pegged solid and others agreed with him, we kept things stirred up enough to win. Mind and Dervun, what do you think of me this time?

Also I like Dervun's idea. Since there have been so many suicides on town's side then wouldn't it be fair if we had at least one extra day for information gathering? Or did "we" (the ones who didn't break any rules) do it on ourselves?

So my friends, as Tjens is not posting his role and as Tjens did so much overreact last day, about mind saying something in general, and not really attacking him I think he is a viable target. We don't have much time left. (less than 4 hours)

Tjens is probably the most suspicious right now. I say we go for him and hope for the best. Unless of course we find someone even more suspicious. So get some votes on him for the time being. We need 4 for a deadline lynch.

It is now or never. Let's show these mafia scum what we are really made of! Chicken soup for everybody if we manage to win this game despite all odds!

I am a Dovish Field Healer - I can choose one target at night and rejuvenate him, rendering him immune to night attacks. However after using my powers I am too tired to participate in the lynching process during the following day, meaning I can't vote the day after I used my powers. I cannot target myself.

Its again a guess, and might be the last one. Anyway I think he would have played different if he were a townie. Still its hard to pinpoint things at that.

@Dervun: I would be interested in what triggers your doubt. You won't find any fishy claims or actions by me, simply because I play for town side. If your suspicion comes from my actions against Tinki/Phoenix, I can understand it a little because this really went bad; I was convinced their gameplay exposes them as BBB and didn't believe any more arguments from them. Still I wasn't alone with that, the overall atmosphere was helping to make me sure; BBB will have had a good laugh in their hideout about this campaigns, this makes me mad half of the game already: We chase people around in the belief we got a BBB, in the end its another dead townie and another quiet time for mafia.

I just want to remind you that there are still some people that played relatively quiet and colourless until now. Personally I think our BBB stock is to be found there, attacking participating people brought us nowhere but a step near doom yet.

I am a Dovish Field Healer - I can choose one target at night and rejuvenate him, rendering him immune to night attacks. However after using my powers I am too tired to participate in the lynching process during the following day, meaning I can't vote the day after I used my powers. I cannot target myself.

I think we should be very aware of the fact that it only takes 4 votes for a deadline lynch, so we should decide quickly who we want to eliminate, because it's entirely possible that the mafia will rush in to vote for someone just before the deadline. Also, remove any votes you don't intend to go through with before the deadline.

While I have my doubts about some of the roles people have been claiming, I think Tjens might be our best bet for now, but I'll be following this thread closely.

I am a Dovish Field Healer - I can choose one target at night and rejuvenate him, rendering him immune to night attacks. However after using my powers I am too tired to participate in the lynching process during the following day, meaning I can't vote the day after I used my powers. I cannot target myself.

Could you explain on who and which nights you did use your role? :)

Oops, sorry:

Night 1 - Tjens (Kinda random, I thought Tjens is a kinda comical person, so I didn't want him to die on the first night)Night 2 - Hakugei (He was making the most waves)Night 3 - Dervun (I remember he made some good points at the time)Night 4 - Skuggi (He was making the waves now)Night 5 - I wanted to jump on the Leodasvacas bandvagon, so I didn't send my target, wasn't sure who was who yet.Night 6 - Dervun (I was sure he's town)Night 7 - I actually forgot to send in this one, but I would have targeted Dervun again.

If you need me to actually quote the points Hakugei/Dervun/Skuggi made that got me to vote for them I will, I just wanted to make clear of who I voted while we still have time.

Also, not sure how active I'll be tomorrow, but we could really use that extra day.

Unsafe, how come you wanted to jump the D5 bandwagon on Leo, before it even started?

Faun, i'm confused by your role claim.

- you had troubles identifying your role name. For myself it was easy, for the other Townies as well (even Tinki could figure it out). - you say it's easy to guess your 3rd power. Well, i have no idea, but in any case, Mafia has a higher chance of figuring it out. So why not tell?- Using your first power on D2.. seems a bit early at least. Chances of a Townie visiting you are a lot higher compared to Mafia visiting.

My other action was to raise a injuring flamewall at Dervuns door which was kinda big nonsense when I finally got on the next day that dervun has to go out to get information. Luckily things seemed to have found in order when he would have lost his power anyway due to his age and the room he was in. The injuring flamewall would hurt trespassers so they cannot use their ability on the next day. After I had used my "good" shield (which would have been devastating to dervun from what I know now) I thought this one could help in this way to push against BBB somehow.

Did you think i was an investigator? I simply doubt you didn't know active NTAs require people to leave their house.

How many healers are there? 2 nature shamans, a guy that can lock someone else's room rendering him untouchable (different words same/better effects), a main healer and his student and now a freaking Dovish Field Healer who cannot vote the next day? And so few townies managed to survive the nights? What the hell.

Dervun, a firewall implies the element of fire was used which is a characteristic of the beast faction. I am not saying he is not suspicious. He could still be a traitor. But we need a sure BBB member kill not a traitor. Faun didn't vote on Tjens after seeing all this discussion. Perhaps he is a traitor and cannot vote on Tjens because he is a mafia? Maybe I am thinking too far but it is still possible.

Tjens was my first choice for a few reasons. He's playing very passively, and just posts enough to stay under the radar. Also he's playing quite different from how he played on the last Newerth mafia. Chances are they're both mafia, but I stand by my first post in saying he's our best bet.

Surviving finally caught up with them. Suddenly, their own skins seemed more important than spiritual enlightenment. Accusations started being thrown around, out in the open. Until they began piling up on poor Tjens. He still felt like he wasn't part of this war. He was dragged into this almost against his will... When someone asked him, as a child: "What can you do, boy?", he replied "I dig holes." And then they drafted him, and made him build a lot of holes in which he could hide for days, on his own, to spy on a lot of things others needed him to. They didn't even let him keep that stuffed baby behe doll that his mother gave to him for his 1st birthday.

And now, once again, he's all alone, in a forest, left off to fend for himself. He will, no doubt, do what he does best: dig a hole and hide in it. Maybe them wild things roaming the forest got the flu and their noses are running and they'll miss his stinky little self.

Tensed as yesterday was, the morning did not follow the trend. A lucky break - nobody died. However, the night was not uneventful. Small earthquakes shook the monastery and its surroundings. Deep vibrations were mixed with sudden noises and roars that made the tables shake. That did not sound good. In fact, this is probably how the end of the world sounds like.

Ya i didnt vote on those end day votes mainly because of time zone and my role:

I am baby Behemoth, I am a townie protector and i am the guy with the growls i believe. My ability also protects, which is its primary purpose, i have been using it to try to keep smart townies in the game.

My targets have been Night 1 I protected mind (really blind play) didn't think it would accomplish anythingNight 2 Moxy Night 3 Moxy To clarify, I did this because i thought he could be mafia because their was no kill night before, so I decided to try it again(At this point since i was new i had no idea mafia could choose different guys to kill so this plan was very idiotic)Night 4 Protect Dervun after he made his statement that he could not use his NTA anymore and i thought he was a brilliant at helping townies so i wanted him in the game and blocking him should do no harm.I believe I protected dervun again and I then could not send in a NTA because I was in hospital Plus with broken hand and broken computer. I lost track of nights and emails because comp crashed this is all from memory. So the nights may be mixed up but I used my NTA twice on dervun twice on moxy and once on mind I believe the first 3 nights are right and I think I might have protected dervun the night after he said his NTA and the other night after that also.

And for my lynch targets i would vote for those BBB but days end when i am at school. So their is no possible way i could change my vote for most of them. My votes are mostly hunches and do you really believe a mafia would lone vote a townie by himself, unless he is an idiot. I obviously did it out of a basic hunch as my NTA tells me jack shiat about what people are, all i do is try to keep guys that i think are good townies in the game except mind, i thought he was out for me so i wanted to block him rest were for protection.

I have erased the already dead for putting emphasis on the voting pattern of the living ones.

What conclusion can be drawn from these voting patterns and past actions? Here are mine:- Dervun, Skuggi and Valli are townies (99% sure :P) - Mopok has weird if not outright offensive voting pattern.- Faun never voted on either Envious or Leo. He only voted on Tjens when he already had the necessary votes for a lynch. - I don't trust Unsafe's claim of not being able to vote after using NTA. In technical terms a Field Medic is supposed to heal as many as possible without a break. I doubt any self proclaimed field medic would just suddenly be tired after helping a soldier. Gotta research on that other word Unsafe used in his role name though. - I don't really know what to say about Igors and pizlo

Edit after seeing mopok's claim:

What a surprise, another defender role. Define the word "protect". How do you protect people? You block them as well?

F2 Mopok, F1 Happy for now. You really got the order of your activities all messed up, even i know them better :-P. Last night you didn't use your NTA, right?Can you elaborate a bit more on how your role works though? How are you locking the doors?

Night 2 Moxy Night 3 Moxy To clarify, I did this because i thought he could be mafia because their was no kill night before, so I decided to try it again(At this point since i was new i had no idea mafia could choose different guys to kill so this plan was very idiotic)

Night 4 Protect Dervun after he made his statement that he could not use his NTA anymore and i thought he was a brilliant at helping townies so i wanted him in the game and blocking him should do no harm.

Yet, Dervun didn't reveal his role until Day 5: See here (http://www.newerth.com/smf/index.php/topic,14502.msg169477.html#msg169477). So you couldn't have known that he couldn't use his NTA anymore before that, and would've protected him the following night, Night 6.

Something doesn't add up, mopok. But let's say your role is real, could you explain how it works, how do you protect someone in the game?

Ya sorry i lost all my emails with NTA stuff :( but to clarify i am a fat baby and i sit infront of doors so people cant go in and out, since i sit infront of them, i guess i growl in my sleep from what i hear from people that i block, So when i use my NTA no one can enter or leave. And last night i did not use it. night before i used it on dervun and the night before. Then i had 2 empty days i believe due to RL.

so again Night 1 MindNight 2 Moxy Night 3 MoxyNight 4 mind (i am fairly sure about this one not 100% long ago)Then the night after the day dervun announced his role. DervunNight after DervunNight after that mindNight after none

I announced my role during day 5, so you claim the following:N6 DervunN7 DervunN8 Mind (who died during N7)N9 none (That's the next night)

If you don't recall everything it's ok, but such a mess is inacetpable for a Townie. I don't believe you. I have a theory, on why you claimed that specific role:- 7/10 declared a role yesterday- Igors is the guy who forces people to vote others- Happy is your Mafia buddyThis leaves noone left with a role, that definitely existed this game, but must have died with Hakugei (unlikely) or Sasuke (rather him).

You might ofcourse rethink your targets, or ask Daemon if he is so kind as to send them to you again. However, it's a bit late for that, don't you think?

Okay, sorry i cant give it straight up as i lost all my emails cause comp crashed but, ya if you announces night 5 its clearN1 no oneN2MindN3MoxyN4MoxyN5 DervunN6 DervunN7 i lost my emails and broke my handN8no one

I am not organized cause i didn't think i had to. And have you seen any other role claim that can growl block and not be affected by magic.... The spot was missing. Baby Behemoth who blocks the doors. You knew there was one more blocker also. Because that answer was still never answered.

F1 mopokTonight I clearly see this is serios business. Somehow I feel sorry that you guys seem to mistrust me in general, but anyway I think I should continiue to play this game my way. mopok seems to be the most reasonable target for this day. IgorS is still part of my in-between list, otherwise we wouldn't have lived this day. So.

I can banish from the monastery. However, I am only able to do that once my NTA yields a confirmation that a particular player is a member of BBB. Obviously both actions are very limited. Obviously I didn't banish anyone yet.

Mopok must be lying. This was his 3rd try and he still didn't get it right. It's not even that complicated, if he would have read everything and thought about it a little, he would have known he didn't visit me N5. The way his activities differ with every post don't make him more trustworthy.In addition, i don't see how a baby behemoth that sleeps in front of peoples doors handles his agressivity with a majestical indifference

Igors seems to have a powerful role.. investigator and vigilante combined. Are you searching for one specific person?

Happy, can you describe how you were forced to vote for Winterfresh last day?

Last but not least, i found some logical inconsistency within Pizlos role. If he grants a blocker to perform his action twice and if that person uses the extra block against Pizlo, Pizlo will have been blocked, but not his ability. Furthermore, if he uses it on someone, Daemon will tell his target about it, Pizlo still can be blocked.Seeing how Daemon needed weeks to start the game, i doubt he wouldn't see such problems this role would bring with it.

I'm interested in a different kind of spirits and the only thing magic about me is that I actually manage to run a pub while constantly being drunk. Especially at a time like this with the BBB around. At least they do keep my pub well attended. I was once given a bottle of special schnapps by a beast who was unable to pay. And since drinking it alone is only half the fun I can visit someone during the night and share the bottle with him. If my target is a human he won't survive the night because he's not used to that strong spirits. If my target is a beast he will gain unnatural strength able to protect both of us. However he can't use his NTA that night solely because he spends the whole night drinking with me.I haven't used my NTA yet.

A charming voice told me last night I should vote for Winter the next day. I don't know if that was a spell or actually someone visitng.

Tip of the day:Although not very frequent, there are roles that can switch sides, in case certain events occur or if there are recruited by other roles with such abilities. There are also roles that can receive a new set of skills if they manage to accomplish a task like locating the owner of a specific role amongst the other players.

Not quite. Although it's slightly descriptive of me, I'm not looking for a specific BBB role. Actually I was silently thinking that Tip of The Day might be related to something Dervun is not saying us about his (past and present) role.

What I find suspicious is Faun's abilities, each of them is offensive in one way or another. He holds too much destructive power for a townie. And I also think it's too powerful for BBB member either (coupled with the wrong race). So I believe he is amongst 1-2 players whose goal is the last man standing.

Yet we are not interested in killing traitors now, neither traitors are interested in killing townsfolk since they lose when mafia wins.

What I find suspicious is Faun's abilities, each of them is offensive in one way or another. He holds too much destructive power for a townie. And I also think it's too powerful for BBB member either (coupled with the wrong race). So I believe he is amongst 1-2 players whose goal is the last man standing.

Yet we are not interested in killing traitors now, neither traitors are interested in killing townsfolk since they lose when mafia wins.

You need to consider that last game was an exception to the normal scheme of Mafia. Pizlo was in a 3rd team, along with someone else. The Mafia team back then had a traitor of their own, who won with the rest of his team. Our game will most likely feature one of that kind. He can't communicate with the others during night though, resulting in him being a smaller threat.

Igors, i would like to know if you actually plan to use your investigations, seeing you didn't yet.. Game won't last forever.

You need to consider that last game was an exception to the normal scheme of Mafia. Pizlo was in a 3rd team, along with someone else. The Mafia team back then had a traitor of their own, who won with the rest of his team. Our game will most likely feature one of that kind. He can't communicate with the others during night though, resulting in him being a smaller threat.

Yeah I am aware of the both types of "traitors". But due to the reasons explained above I suspect we have the last-man-standing faction again.

Had no means to use it. Plus i forgot :P And currently i am second guessing many people such as dervun and others incorporated in his ideas. Plus forgot nights were one day long. was hoping to get on to put in my email the next morning as i was tired from school. So when i woke up in the morning it was the next day and i face palmed.

well as you hear in the little story part of this day, there was LOUD stomping and earthquakes that was my mammy, so she came back and got mad at me for going out to help the townies so she told me to stay in doors. So there was some co- motion in my room from my fat mammy behe, (i am baby behemoth if you didnt know yet) So that could have caused magic i can read that again and see if anything happened otherwise. But what from i got from it i cannot protect you guys anymore.