Since Harrington got here, he's been averaging 21 and 7 with good percentages (57% efg%!) and few turnovers. The scoring is needed, and the rebounding is underrated.

Harrington may only get 7 boards per game (which is pretty damned good), but he also boxes out as well as anybody in the league. Players he's guarding are only averaging 5.5 rebounds per game. Boxing out is an important part of rebounding, even if you don't get the board. Players Harrington guards average 7.4 rebounds per 48 minutes, players murphy guards average over 15 rebounds per 48 minutes. Murphy gets more boards, but so does his opponent.

Many people are busting a nut over the defense of stephen jackson, or at least referring to him as our only defender. Now Jax isn't a bad defender, but his defense since coming here pales in comparison to that of Harrington. Harrington, at power forward (the deepest position in the history of the game) is keeping opponents to a remarkable 12.5 ppg and 40% shooting. When he has played center he has kept his opponents to 7.69 ppg and 35% shooting.

For all the rebounding and defense bashing harrington has been getting, and for all the people talking about murphy's better play, Harrington has been outperforming his opponents at every facet of the game. And that's at the dreaded power forward position in the west, where murphy was overmatched 9 games out of ten.

You can bring up all the stats you want, all that BS about how Harrington rebounds better then Murphy. But the fact is the Pacers have been out rebounded once since the trade happened. Al Harrington will never be a better rebounder then Troy Murphy, he could be but he wont because Al doesnt care about rebounding.

If you know someone working with the Warriors ask them what Al does after the game, win or lose. He goes and checks his stat sheet to see how many points he had.

Ohh and if you are happy with this superb play more power to you. But check out Al Harringtons stats on the Hawks, good numbers no wins and its what is happening to you. Al Harrington gets his but he will never improve players around him.

Jermaniac wrote: ...Al Harrington gets his but he will never improve players around him.

He doesn't seem overly greedy to me. It seems as though he generally plays with enthusiasm. He could get more assists, but due to the nature of the Warrior's half-court offense, nobody is open.

He makes his outside shots, can score on the break and goes inside. Not too bad. It would seem that he is doing as good a job as anyone loosening up the defenses. Certainly our guards aren't. Good grief, do you want Davis or Ellis or Pietrus to shoot more outside shots?

He is not going to the Hall, but is a good player that does well at all aspects of the game.

Although I never bought the "soft rebounds" criticism of Murphy, I do think Harrington is a better player for this team.
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Jermaniac wrote:You can bring up all the stats you want, all that BS about how Harrington rebounds better then Murphy. But the fact is the Pacers have been out rebounded once since the trade happened. Al Harrington will never be a better rebounder then Troy Murphy, he could be but he wont because Al doesnt care about rebounding.

If you know someone working with the Warriors ask them what Al does after the game, win or lose. He goes and checks his stat sheet to see how many points he had.

Ohh and if you are happy with this superb play more power to you. But check out Al Harringtons stats on the Hawks, good numbers no wins and its what is happening to you. Al Harrington gets his but he will never improve players around him.

I never said Harrington rebounds better than murphy, I was merely pointing out that it isn't as one sided as it appears

Jermaniac wrote:You can bring up all the stats you want, all that BS about how Harrington rebounds better then Murphy. But the fact is the Pacers have been out rebounded once since the trade happened. Al Harrington will never be a better rebounder then Troy Murphy, he could be but he wont because Al doesnt care about rebounding.

If you know someone working with the Warriors ask them what Al does after the game, win or lose. He goes and checks his stat sheet to see how many points he had.

Ohh and if you are happy with this superb play more power to you. But check out Al Harringtons stats on the Hawks, good numbers no wins and its what is happening to you. Al Harrington gets his but he will never improve players around him.

I gotta partially agree; Murphy's a way better rebounder than Harrington (even though Al's better in every other aspect of the game). But I'm not sure if Al's really a curse; the guy hit a game-winner a couple nights back to seal the deal on the Sixers.

Harrington's numbers are high because he's streaky. 10 games later, we'll see how amazing they look.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:For all the rebounding and defense bashing harrington has been getting, and for all the people talking about murphy's better play

Better, for himself maybe, but certainly not better than Harrington. I don't think I've seen anybody on this board claim that Murphy for Harrington isn't a sweet deal on our part.

I simply created another thread proving the doubters wrong. People claimed that Murphy couldn't average over 10 boards (hell, some people said he'd only average 7!) outside of Golden State. However, standing next to Jermaine O'Neal (who averages 10) and Jeff Foster (8.5), Murphy's become Indy's best rebounder. That's just the facts. He's done well for himself. I give him props for it (even though many don't want to).

Murphy playing for Indiana is a better player than Murphy playing for the Warriors.

Harrington playing for the Warriors is a better player than Harrington playing for Indiana.

It was a trade that worked well for both teams.

Unfortunately, Nelson and Carlise are both similar coaches, good, but not great, and not coaches that will take a team to the NBA title. Cuban in Dallas knew this about Nelson and Davidson in Detroit knew this about Carlise.

Speaking of the trade with Indiana, how do people feel about Powell getting more time backing up Biedrens?

uptempo wrote:Murphy playing for Indiana is a better player than Murphy playing for the Warriors.

Harrington playing for the Warriors is a better player than Harrington playing for Indiana.

It was a trade that worked well for both teams.

Unfortunately, Nelson and Carlise are both similar coaches, good, but not great, and not coaches that will take a team to the NBA title. Cuban in Dallas knew this about Nelson and Davidson in Detroit knew this about Carlise.

Speaking of the trade with Indiana, how do people feel about Powell getting more time backing up Biedrens?

nice info, Pest, for those who actually read it. Thanks...I agree with Uptempo's point re Nelson and Carlisle. Btw, I will take Harrington's 21 and 7 over Murphy's 7 and 10 any day and nice point about how many boards Harrington keeps the opponents from getting.

To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

Murphy is the 4th option on a team that loves to play slow down basketball and keep the shots taken # to a low number for both teams.

Al Harrington plays on your team where a shot with 23 seconds left on the clock is no problem, he gets to put up as many shots as he wants and thats all Al Harrington cares about.

He never gave a **** about winning and he never will. The guy was a 3rd option on a 61 win team, taking more shots then the greatest player the franchise ever had in Reggie Miller, playing the 3rd most minutes on the team, being in the lineup that always finishes the games. But he demanded a trade because he wasnt on the floor the first 3 damn minutes of the game. You never heard him demand a trade from the Hawks either even when he had the chance to ask for one he didnt because he was getting his. He is the guy who at one point said that his #1 choice as a free agent was the Knicks. THE KNICKS. Thats all you need to know about Baby Al.

I'm glad you guys are happy with Al but he will never make any of his teammates better nor does he care about making them better. The guys nickname with the Pacers was Blackhole.

When the trade happened I hated it because of Murphy's and Dunleavy's contracts and because they looked like **** with the Warriors. But I'm very happy now that these guys are on our team, they are 2 guys who are making Jermaine a better player because of their style. Ohh and Ike, I dont know what to say about him. He is just amazing in the post.

Dont think I'm hating on you guys, because I'm from the Bay also and it would be great to finally see a Bay Area team in the playoffs.

uptempo wrote:Speaking of the trade with Indiana, how do people feel about Powell getting more time backing up Biedrens?

The only person I was mad we gave up in the trade was Josh Powell. That was my boy. Jermaine LOVED the guy, who talked about him like he was an all star. JO said that Josh Powell will be a better version of Udonis Haslem for us. Too bad he never got the time to prove it because our coach has a thing against playing young players.

I hope he becomes a very good player for you guys cause I like Josh alot.

I think Murph has done a good job since becoming a Pacer. I won't say much about the others since they're playing like how they did back as a Warrior. Anyway, Murph has justified the fact he can rebound through stats. I just want to see a full game with Murph trying to rebound against teams like the Spurs or Pistons. His stats look good, now I just have to see w'sup physically.

Al Harrington plays on your team where a shot with 23 seconds left on the clock is no problem, he gets to put up as many shots as he wants and thats all Al Harrington cares about.

If he keeps shooting at a 57% effective FG% he can shoot 70 shots per game for all I care. Any way you slice it, you aren't hurting your team if you're shooting a good percentage from the field, getting few turnovers, playing way better than the guy you're guarding, playing better than your backup, and not doing anything below average. I know he's streaky, but Harrington's been a top 20 player in the league since joining the dubs. Obviously he won't keep that up, but stop ragging on him. And really, we don't have any use for pacers fans on this forum who are here just to complain about their former players.