I think it's true about the "friends with benefits" term. I guess I use fuck buddy and FWB interchangably because I've never actually had a FWB relationship with someone I was already friends with. I met the few guys I did that with through plentyoffish or through friends.

What you're saying really does make sense, CCG (and you too, wowee). I took the evening to think about it and I kind of think that you're right - I think that this might be the issue here. I think that he wants more from me than I can give and I don't know what I want from him at all. With me, it could go either way. If he wanted to stop messing around and just be friends, I would be cool with that. If he wanted to just be fuck buddies I would be cool with that too, but I need him to tell me that. It's all his vague bullshit that is driving me crazy - the coming and going, the talking to me and wanting to hang out with me and then dropping me after we do hang out.

I was talking to my bestie about this yesterday and she said that she thinks he's playing a game - we hook up, he disappears, and then when he finally comes back I'm like, "So what happened to you?" and it makes him feel wanted and that I'm wondering about him when he's gone and that eventually I might get around to wanting to be with him. I think that's really game-y for a guy, but I don't know. It's entirely possible.

I have to say that I don't really like the term "friend with benefits" because I really don't think it works when the people are actually friends. I have a guy who is what I call a fuck buddy and he is just that. We are chummy when we see each other but we see each other solely for sex. He knows how to fuck me but neither one of us wants anything more from it and for the past two years it has worked great. He was understanding a few months ago when I told him I was in a relationship and after I texted him to tell him that I was single again he sent a quick "so when can I see you?" message. I like it. It's simple and there is no drama. We don't see each other often but we're both quick to respond to each other's "needs".

I totally agree, ketto. I want to have the "what's going on convo" but not through Facebook messages. I'd rather talk to him online about it - or better yet, face-to-face, because fuck if I know what's going on with him. He seems really into me and stuff which is fine, I'm kind of into him too but I don't want to jump right into another relationship after getting out of a bad one only four short months ago. At the moment I just know that I'm not cut out for being someone's exclusive girlfriend, but I don't like being ignored, either, you know? Especially since we were talking every day before we started goofing around again.

Sigh. I guess I'm just going to have to wait before he sticks his head up out of his ostrich hole. But it's pretty frustrating. And I really hope you aren't right about one of us getting hurt, but I can totally see where you're coming from. That just wouldn't be cool with me.

Roque, I have to agree with coffee that someone usually ends up getting hurt in FWB relationships. In the past I twice thought I had a good casual thing going with two separate guys. One of them acted like a child when I ended up in a committed relationship and the other professed his very strong feelings for me when I ended up with my current guy, even go so far as to call me every 2-3 months to see if I was single.

I've probably said this before on the lounge, but I'm the kind of person that cannot deal with confusion and not being clear on what's going on. If I were you, I'd just bite the bullet and have the "what's going on" convo. It's a hard thing to bring up, but it usually brings relief in some way. It's really hard not to screw up a friendship in some way when you're in that kind of situation.

Hey, thanks coffee! All that you said makes sense, especially the part where you mentioned that he is more-than-likely distancing himself so he doesn't get hurt. I was thinking that too, but I don't know. We do talk a lot so that's why I'm so confused as to why he just disappears after we've messed around. Maybe I'm weird but I like the way things are going - if they progress into a relationship I guess I'll just have to see what happens but it really bothers me that he just disappears. It makes me feel used and I'm not comfortable with that - I'm not using him - he's a great guy and I would never do that to him - I thought we had a mutual understanding but maybe I'm wrong?

I would definitely send him an e-mail/FB message to this extent but to me that comes off as being clingy and I do not want that. I almost tried twice today but then stopped myself. It's just so annoying! Especially since I just saw him update his status there about ten minutes ago but he's still not online to talk to (via MSN) about anything. Part of me just wants to say "So what's going on with us?" but I have a feeling that will open up a kettle of fish I don't want to get into. Bah.

I even have him blocked on MSN so he won't see that I'm online, just in case he wants to log in and feel that he won't be bombarded by me (which I don't ever do anyway, but who knows how men think? I certainly don't! And it's so obvious (to myself) that I am playing a game and I hate that too - but I'm playing a game for self-preservation. I don't know. It just sucks cause I don't want us to eff up a friendship, even though we both agreed that wouldn't happen. Aargh.

Hi Rogue, sorry to hear that your romantic life is a little complicated right now.

From an outside perspective and just based on what you have noted in the previous post....this guy did ALREADY tell you that he really likes you, so in some ways it is not really fair to say 'I'm hoping it's not because he wants something more from me' because if he has gotten to the point to tell you how he feels then it may be likely that he wants to be with you or will want to if this continues.

Perhaps his disappearing is a mechanism through which he can create distance with you so that HE does not get hurt - rather than as a result of playing games or making sure that YOU do not get too clingy. I understand that it probably frustrates you and hurts your feelings when he ignores you afterward because he is not treating you like a 'friend' but maybe it is too much for him. I guess I also wonder - if you are fooling around and talking more frequently than every few days (because you have noted that you are frustrated that he disappears for just 2-3 days afterwards) isn't is just a slippery slope before you enter into a relationship whether you want it or not? Both emotional and physical needs are then being met by the same person - that's more than friends in my opinion. Also consider, would you be just as frustrated and annoyed if your best completely platonic friend did not call you within three days of last seeing them? If the answer is no then you are likely more than just friends whether you like it or not.

Maybe this is completely off base but I have never had a friends with benefits situation where one person did not end up having significant feelings. Perhaps you need to talk to him and tell him how you feel when he ignores you and then also ask him about how he is feeling and what he wants.

Bah, I get so frustrated with men. There's this one dude that I'm messing around with (we aren't dating but he said he really likes me etc., and we probably aren't dating because of my issues; I don't want to be tied down at the moment/don't want the expectations that come with dating) but I'm just getting really annoyed. We've been friends for about eight years and we've fooled around a few times over that time span (most recently on Monday night) and every time we do he falls off the radar for a few days. It's completely ridiculous and I'm at a loss as to what to do about it. I honestly don't know why, either. I'm hoping it's not because he wants something more from me and I don't want anything from him other than our friendship/casual encounters at the moment (not saying this won't change because it might, but who knows). I'm also hoping he's not playing some "I'll disappear to get her to miss me" game, because that's total bullshit and I'm not into games.

Any advice on how to get him to stop disappearing? It's so weird! It's like he thinks I'm going to be this retarded clingy girl and I'm definitely not like that, but when I want to talk to him about anything (because we are friends and he's quite insightful/hilarious) he's nowhere to be found. *Annoyed Rogue is annoyed.* Grrrrr.

He even said that women should never get undressed infront of their male partner because that ruins the mystery.

Wow, that does sound a little excessive. Thanks for the heads up, kittenb. I might take a deeper look at the book in this case, maybe sit down in the bookstore and leaf through it a bit. I was interested in it but now it just seems like - no thanks. Hehe.

Most of the men that I have dated have not been anywhere near what I exactly what in a man (tall, blond hair, gorgeous eyes, no matter what the color) and it was fine with me, too. I know that to only go after exactly what I want limits a lot of other great men and I would never do that, it's just what I prefer in the grand scheme of things. I just get really discouraged when it comes to dating, I guess. I've usually gone for men who like me, regardless of what I think of them. This time around I just really want to find some mutual admiration, and no one with a crazy backstory. Seriously, the men I have dated in the past have all been really, really odd and I kept going forward when I should have run screaming in the opposite direction. I just want someone who is low-maintinence and drama free and who likes me for who I am. That's all. I don't ask for much, but I can see where it's hard because I find that I am a very strange person. I definitely see where you are going with online dating profiles, though, kitten. I kind of want to make one for myself to see what happens but at the same time I don't want to be expected to go out with these men so I'm going to refrain for now. I know my limits and it's not right to put myself out there and not be able to stand up to expectations.

I can't tell you how glad I am that there is a place out there to discuss issues in all the aspects of my life. I am thankful for Bust every day. The Lounge and its Busties are awesome.

My next two book purchases are going to be He's Just Not That Into You, and Act Like A Lady, Think Like A Man. I think they would be immensely helpful to my clueless nature re: dating.

I don't know how serious you were about this but I am compelled to put my $0.02 in. I have read neither book. However, I used to watch the Greg Berhent Show so his book comes off as slightly less repellent. However, having watched Steve Harvey promote his book, all I can say is "Ugh." He seems to really act as if women are responsible for all of the happiness in the relationship. He even said that women should never get undressed infront of their male partner because that ruins the mystery. Where I used to work, the counselors actually got together to do a reading group for this book because they knew that the clients would be reading it and the staff needed to know how damaging it would be.

As far as the "I want a thin girl/tall guy" stuff on personal ads, if a guy had requested a preference that I did not feel applied to me, I took him off my list. While we all have physical preferences, looking for love is different. My bf is exactly my height and we are both chubby. He's bald, and, believe me, I have my imperfections too. If I had limited him out of my preferences because I didn't want someone who didn't meet my normal physical preferences (tall, slender, brown haired) my life would be a much different place and not for the better.

6'5"! Oh, persi, I envy you! I wish I could date a man that was 6'5"! I don't know why but tall men are my thing. Or, like I said, feeling small could be my thing, because I never do.

I was speaking with my BFF over the weekend regarding this (a two-and-a-half hour hike through the woods in the rain brings up a lot of opportunity for conversation!) and she said that she thinks that the men on the dating site that say they would like a thin girl, might not necessarily mean "thin" the way that I think it does. Thin can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people, and it might just be that they want someone who is "active", not "thin". I don't think I'm thin but someone else definitely could! I think I'm more curvy than anything else - I have a rounded tummy on me, but, to quote my friend, "I'm not a two-tonne Annie" or anything. I don't know. I guess it just offends me because I've always thought that I'm not good enough for anyone because of my size and that's my issue, not anyone else's. It just frustrates me.

In other news, I was supposed to go on a date this weekend with that guy friend for high school (I mentioned this before; it was kind of the jumping-off point to my post) and I didn't go. I purposely fell of the radar, so to speak, just to see what would happen. He said that I am very hard to get a hold of, which in my opinion just isn't true. I have Facebook (where he can message me privately, or publically, and my phone number is listed on it as well) so he could have talked to me there if not on MSN, where we usually talk. So yeah. Instead of waiting around for him I went on a hike on Saturday morning and then hung out with my bestie for the rest of the day up until about 9:30 that night and nothing. Not a word from him. I have a phone that allows me to access my e-mail and Facebook and *gasp!* receives phone calls. Fast foward to yesterday where he comes on MSN and apologizes to me about Saturday because he had a bad weekend and didn't want to do anything. Whatever. So obviously not worth my time. I was just like, "No worries" and I think it made him feel really badly because he kept apologizing. The thing is, first and foremost he is/was my friend, so he should have made an effort. Bad friend, worse boyfriend. It ain't gonna happen. My next two book purchases are going to be He's Just Not That Into You, and Act Like A Lady, Think Like A Man. I think they would be immensely helpful to my clueless nature re: dating.

Sorry about the rambling. I just needed to get that rant off my chest, so to speak. I hope everyone else is having more fun in dating-land than I am! I think I'm just going to hibernate for the winter and get back out there in the spring. From now on, I am a bear.

I kind of understand why people in the medical profession might want to date others interested in medical care... but that's why work relationships tend to always happen, no one needs a website to meet people in the same profession as them!

Also, after checking out your link out of morbid curiousity, I must ask, how is a legal secretary or a travel/tourism receptionist a "uniformed" profession? lol

Okay, in the interests of full disclosure, I will confess to some apparent hypocrisy on this subject. I have found several short men very attractive (and by short, I mean 5"3 or slightly taller), but my last three serious boyfriends have been, in chronological order, 6"1, 6"3 and 6"5. I swear that I was mostly attracted to them by their personalities! So although I stand by my principles on this subject, anyone who knows me IRL would be laughing.

Anyway, maybe the 'thin' thing is just because the site forces everyone to express a preference? Or because they're allowing for the natural distortion of facts when dating online? If everyone claims to be thinner than they really are, maybe they say 'thin' so that they get 'pleasantly curvy" Given that most of us are just looking for someone we find 'attractive', which could cover a massive range of vital statistics, it's a shame if any site forces users to specify their preferences.

(Further disclosure: I once asked my ex why he didn't go for taller women. His response, and take this as you will, was as follows: "Don't get me wrong, tall women have their practical advantages, but small women are just so cute!").

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“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992

It's really funny that you bring up the tallness issue, Persi, because I must confess, I am guilty as charged. I'm not super tall (I'm 5'9"), but I feel that it is important for me to date a man who is taller than I am (which can be an issue because in my experience, tall men do not find tall women to be attractive). I would definitely not rule out a man who is my height or shorter than I am (my last boyfriend was only 5'7"), but personally it just makes me feel strange if a man is shorter than me. It makes me feel larger than I am, which is not something I like. I am just very attracted to tall men. Also, I wear heels on a daily basis and would like to not be towering over my date at functions (the office in which I work is responsible for putting on a lot of non-casual events in my city and staff are expected to attend). But I definitely understand what you are saying. I prefer a tall man but I wouldn't exclude a good man just because he isn't tall. That's just plain stupidity.

My mother actually brought this up last night when we were talking about it - she asked if I would be as bothered by it if the men on the site were asking for short women and I said yes, but not as much as asking for thin women. I just think that our society's obsession with size and weight and what is beautiful is ridiculous. It's exhausting, actually. I generally like how I look but I would like to have a flatter stomach. That's about the only thing I would change about myself and I know it's just because that is what is considered to be acceptable and beautiful these days. It's sad, really. I think so many women are beautiful but I know they don't feel that way, much like I do sometimes, because of what is expected of us. It just makes me really angry. I guess that's why I'm so put off with this whole dating thing. I feel like I'm already excluded because I don't fit a certain criteria, so why bother in the first place, you know? Ugh.

Aithinne, I'm a very weird 14-16, too. I wouldn't consider myself to be "fat" (horrible word), but others would and have in the past. When I worked at a clothing store a few years back I also had coworkers tell me I was full of shit and that there was no way I wore a 16. I actually took a pair of jeans from off the rack and put them on in a changing room just to prove them wrong because they thought I would be a lot smeller than that. It's just weird, I guess. My mother thinks she's fat and says it all the time, and she's probably the same size I am. I hate when she says it as well because I think she's beautiful, just like you do of your mother. This is just all so frustrating. I think I'm going to be a hermit for a while.

Rogue, I think a July break-up is pretty recent! Both of my long-term relationships ended amicably, but it was still 6 months after each before I felt ready to think about dating again (though I did treat myself to some snazzy new porn and toys to take the edge off ).

(And I don't think that having forgiven your ex for cheating makes it your fault that he did it again.)

On the issue of thinness, do you think it's as shallow when women only want to date tall men? That seems to be a common preference online (or so my short, make single friends tell me....). I met a girl in a club at the weekend who was gorgeous, 6"1 with long blonde hair, and had been single for 6 years because she wouldn't consider dating anyone unless they were taller than her. Gah, I wanted to slap her silly*! That seems such an arbitrary distinction to me (hey, I'm 5"3 and I've dated men my height). I can understand her not wanting to date short men, but would it really make that much of a difference is a guy was 6" instead of 6"2? Oh, and she was wearing heels......

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“Logic is the art of going wrong with confidence.”Morris Kline (mathematician, author) 1908-1992

I was thinking the same thing, Aithienne. I was discussing this with a colleague today, actually. Who knows? I'm a size 14-16 and maybe that counts as thin to some men. I certainly don't have a flat stomach though, so I have no idea.

It all depends on perspective. For example, my mom makes comments a lot of how she thinks she's fat, and it makes me sad to hear her say it about herself. She's a size 18, I believe, and while she's not a rail, I still don't consider her fat at all and think she's quite beautiful. Of course, she has a very loving and sweet personality which makes her overall appearance delightful to look at.

I was thinking the same thing, Aithienne. I was discussing this with a colleague today, actually. Who knows? I'm a size 14-16 and maybe that counts as thin to some men. I certainly don't have a flat stomach though, so I have no idea.

I've look around on a dating site where my stepsister found her husband and honestly, every guy there practically lists that he wants a thin woman, which I definitely am not. I'm not overweight by any means but I don't know. I'm not skinny. I don't look like a model.

I'm just speculating here, but I'm pretty sure men's ideas of thin and women's ideas of thin are completely different animals. It certainly cannot hurt to try anyway, because you never know...

I'm finding it really hard to get back into this time around. Usually it isn't but over the past three or more years I've dated two different men, the first one was a pathological liar and cheated on me more than once (my fault for putting up with it, I know) and the most recent ex was verbally and emotionally abusive and had horrible self-esteem issues that he took out on me so it's really screwed me up. It's not that I don't trust men, but that's pretty much the only way I can describe how I feel. I can't trust them not to be complete idiots! I have such a hard time finding a sane man and I have no idea why. I think I'm a nice person and I think I'm good looking but I don't get what it is. I've look around on a dating site where my stepsister found her husband and honestly, every guy there practically lists that he wants a thin woman, which I definitely am not. I'm not overweight by any means but I don't know. I'm not skinny. I don't look like a model. I have no problem with women who do - on the contrary, a lot of the times I see a really pretty girl and I just want to run up to her and tell her that I think she's gorgeous but most women would probably think I'm really weird if I did!

Sorry, I'm going off on a tangent here. I am just finding it really daunting and intimidating. I don't know where to go from here, really. I'm in the "I don't want to end up an old maid" mindset, which is ridiculous because I'm only 25, but when I see a lot of women my age getting married I get worried. I don't know. My mother and my grandmother have always been alone so I'm afraid it's a family curse. That sounds so silly but I think you all understand what I mean.

Usually this stuff doesn't get me down but it's really starting to this week for some reason. I just hate feeling entirely hopeless and that's how I feel. I just don't really know where to go from here. I want someone who is interested in me - not someone who is interested in what I can do for them. And that's all I've had. So it's frustrating.