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The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to CableKC For This Useful Post:

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

Danny is a very intelligent player, and if he knows he's not ready to compete
at a high enough level to help this team, then he is absolutely doing the right
thing to wait until he knows he can contribute.

This Pacers squad has set the bar very high, and he knows better than to
come in and risk being a liability.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

I've got to say, the reactions are kinda funny. For weeks we've had posters complain about not getting a schedule on when he'd be back, Danny gives one, then has to adjust it, and then suddenly people are upset about him giving the schedule. That's why teams don't put out timetables on injuries, because they can change so unpredictably, and then you're just left with even more upset fans.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Since86 For This Useful Post:

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

I'm not gonna knock anyone for complaining, because it has been poorly handled as a whole, but seriously folks...DG could come back after the ASB, when the Pacers still have the #1 seed, play the back nine of the season to prepare for the playoffs, and this team would be no worse for wear.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

The important thing is Granger is practicing. As long as that stays true then there is no conspiracy about what is happening IMHO. The team is winning and has a goal of winning HCA throughout the playoffs so they can't afford to insert a rusty Danny Granger into the lineup before he's ready as he can possibly be.

This team has moved past Danny Granger as far as star player and go to guy goes, so we aren't in some need to get him back and up to game speed ASAP (look at the record to confirm that). That's why I think some people were arguing so much about him returning to the starting lineup (thinking of him as if it was the '94 team missing Reggie)... But we don't need that kind of experiment or distraction that would be a major team shakeup at this point. Some more experience and firepower off the bench? Yes... When he's proven in practice that he can effectively replace Solo and/or OJ... and then ultimately you hope he can work his way into a role to possible shorten minutes for PG and Lance simply to give them more rest over the course of the season. Maybe some small lineup PF situationally... but we don't really want to go small anyway.

And that, to me, is really the end of it. I don't expect any more than that and that is also about as hopeful as it's going to get as far as Granger circa 2013-14 goes unless injuries rear their head in the starting lineup.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

Anyone else think maybe Granger will sign for the veteran's minimum this summer for getting paid about $28 million to play for about 50 games (assuming he starts playing sometime starting in January) over two seasons? This would allow the Pacers to be able to retain both he and Lance.

No? Not a chance in hell, you say? OK, just thought I would throw that out there. I'll sit back down now.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

I'm not gonna knock anyone for complaining, because it has been poorly handled as a whole, but seriously folks...DG could come back after the ASB, when the Pacers still have the #1 seed, play the back nine of the season to prepare for the playoffs, and this team would be no worse for wear.

So we are back to do the same thing we did last year wait for him to be ready for the playoffs and probably get burned again? I'm sorry but if the guy is not doing anything and is not looking like he is going to play at a high level by the trade deadline I hope the Pacers are looking to move him.

I'm telling you I'm going to be mad(yes again) if the Pacers don't look to move him for a player that can help us for a championship run, seriously how many times can a team get burned until they figure out that is not working?

And before somebody tells me how inpatient this sounds I would like to remind you that it has been 19/20 months since we got to see DG play at a high level so is not like this is the first time we see this happening either.

Note:I'm giving him until the trade deadline to look good and productive if not bye bye.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

So we are back to do the same thing we did last year wait for him to be ready for the playoffs and probably get burned again? I'm sorry but if the guy is not doing anything and is not looking like he is going to play at a high level by the trade deadline I hope the Pacers are looking to move him.

I'm telling you I'm going to be mad(yes again) if the Pacers don't look to move him for a player that can help us for a championship run, seriously how many times can a team get burned until they figure out that is not working?

And before somebody tells me how inpatient this sounds I would like to remind you that it has been 19/20 months since we got to see DG play at a high level so is not like this is the first time we see this happening either.

Note:I'm giving him until the trade deadline to look good and productive if not bye bye.

Agreed. I would give him a month and a half to show that he can return and be a reasonably consistent player off of the bench. But if it's February 1 and he still hasn't shown that he can do that, then I'm seeing if DG + second rounder can net us any expiring wing. We have a rare shot at a championship and need as perfect of a roster as possible. If DG hasn't shown anything and if a second rounder is enough to entice a team to swap expirings, then you have to do it. I probably wouldn't offer any more than that though because we are already without our first round pick, plus we can't take on salary beyond this season if we want to retain Lance.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

So we are back to do the same thing we did last year wait for him to be ready for the playoffs and probably get burned again? I'm sorry but if the guy is not doing anything and is not looking like he is going to play at a high level by the trade deadline I hope the Pacers are looking to move him.

I'm telling you I'm going to be mad(yes again) if the Pacers don't look to move him for a player that can help us for a championship run, seriously how many times can a team get burned until they figure out that is not working?

And before somebody tells me how inpatient this sounds I would like to remind you that it has been 19/20 months since we got to see DG play at a high level so is not like this is the first time we see this happening either.

Note:I'm giving him until the trade deadline to look good and productive if not bye bye.

What are you looking for as an asset for Granger? I don't know what your feeling is on Stephenson, but how do you plan to resign Lance if we take back any salary at all for Danny? If he never plays up to a decent standard again, thats unfortunate, but I think the long term solution is just to let his contract expire and move on. Unless of course you could offload some additional salary in the theoretical deal(basically either Copeland/Mahinmi), but that would probably mean giving up future picks, and losing a solid defensive bench piece in Ian.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

What are you looking for as an asset for Granger? I don't know what your feeling is on Stephenson, but how do you plan to resign Lance if we take back any salary at all for Danny? If he never plays up to a decent standard again, thats unfortunate, but I think the long term solution is just to let his contract expire and move on. Unless of course you could offload some additional salary in the theoretical deal(basically either Copeland/Mahinmi), but that would probably mean giving up future picks, and losing a solid defensive bench piece in Ian.

It would have to be an expiring contract, and it would have to be someone who fills a need we have, basically what Danny was supposed to give us (replacement for Solo/OJ's minutes), and possibly a 3rd string center, but again it has to all be expiring contracts. Also you run the risk of chemistry issues if you bring in a brand new face mid-season. Lots of risks there, and probably not very many teams/players that fit that narrow criteria (i.e. why would another team give up quality expiring contracts for another expiring contract that might not even be able to play? It just doesnt make sense).

I just don't see us trading Danny, even if he never sees the floor. Anything other than expiring contracts means we lose Lance and Larry just isn't going to do that I don't think. Not with such a young core and the belief that we will have multiple shots at this.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

It would have to be an expiring contract, and it would have to be someone who fills a need we have, basically what Danny was supposed to give us (replacement for Solo/OJ's minutes), and possibly a 3rd string center, but again it has to all be expiring contracts. Also you run the risk of chemistry issues if you bring in a brand new face mid-season. Lots of risks there, and probably not very many teams/players that fit that narrow criteria (i.e. why would another team give up quality expiring contracts for another expiring contract that might not even be able to play? It just doesnt make sense).

I just don't see us trading Danny, even if he never sees the floor. Anything other than expiring contracts means we lose Lance and Larry just isn't going to do that I don't think. Not with such a young core and the belief that we will have multiple shots at this.

Agreed, the only asset the Pacers would be willing to move is the second round pick in addition to Danny. Also, unless a team is way under the cap, basically Philly(can't think of any others), it would have to be a fairly similar contract.

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

Again, unless we're planning to pull a Marlins and win a single championship then go back to the doldrums you'd be crazy to move Danny for anything other than an expiring wing or center who is playing well off the bench for another team - and who is going to trade an expiring for an expiring who can't play when the only throw-in is a late 2nd rounder in 2014 or at best a mid-round 1st in 2015?

Taking on multiple years of an equivalent salary to Danny is only valuable if you are actually getting someone better than Lance.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Granger Out Friday - Indy Star

What are you looking for as an asset for Granger? I don't know what your feeling is on Stephenson, but how do you plan to resign Lance if we take back any salary at all for Danny? If he never plays up to a decent standard again, thats unfortunate, but I think the long term solution is just to let his contract expire and move on. Unless of course you could offload some additional salary in the theoretical deal(basically either Copeland/Mahinmi), but that would probably mean giving up future picks, and losing a solid defensive bench piece in Ian.

The Pacers should be looking for players with expiring contracts or team options for next year, like Jalen said on ESPN I'll be looking for a microwave kind of guy somebody that can come in and score 10/15 in short time.

By the way for those that don't know Vogel said this morning that he is going to start giving minutes to Butler, my question is if DG is so close to play why Frank has decided to give minutes to Butler? let's hope that nothing is there.