For example:
Curse of the Elements:
Curses the target, increases magical damage taken by 15% from all sources - lasts 15 seconds, 60s cooldown.

- "I throw away all the rules of acceptable conduct during battle; near the ruptures I throw away all the accepted ideas of how the natural world is supposed to behave. Targeting isn’t even a consideration - I will be engaging my enemy at arm’s length."

- "I throw away all the rules of acceptable conduct during battle; near the ruptures I throw away all the accepted ideas of how the natural world is supposed to behave. Targeting isn’t even a consideration - I will be engaging my enemy at arm’s length."

We had so many curses, now we have one. At least they removed other debuffs too. And guess what, we have nothing to cast into spell reflect.

Warrior pruning is still unfinished (as is Warlock) we might get lucky and have Spellreflect removed as button bloat. If not, it sucks. Spell reflect was only reasonable as long as there was game pla in being able to cast something harmless or get burned by your mistake. There's little mistake to make right now, you just really hurt yourself, whatever you do. I don't think Spellreflect is a reasonable ability to keep for Warriors.

If everything is passive, then why the hell have them at all then? just adjust numbers baseline without a silly appendix talent.

Because they want you to feel more powerful when grouped and it encourages class diversity in groups (or discourages class stacking to an extent). That's the whole point of the buff/debuff matrix, they said. Doesn't mean they can't all be passive.

The class has been saddled with horrible restrictions over the years, from limited debuffs back in the stone age to having to pick between COE / COA in earlier expansions, it was never fun having your damage throttled because you were the one throwing a debuff up so had to sacrifice a dot to do it.

I'm aware 1 GCD in your opener is far less of an impact than the above, but it's annoying at times and wouldn't be surprised if it opened old wounds, though a much more elegant fix would have been to just make it so COE doesn't aggro mobs and can be placed pre-pull. Doesn't gimp your opener but still has some gameplay connotations if you need to cast it mid-fight on adds or to refresh.

Glad to see it go. Best part of being in a 25 man guild is I no longer have to debuff the boss and impact my initial burst.

Atleast they dont force a warlock into a certain spec and a certain talent to make it work like they used to. I remember being the guild token Malediction warlock falling behind everyone else on damage just to give them an extra boost to CoE

This is a good example of a problem that plagues not only World of Warcraft, but all video games today.
An outsider comes and upon seeing what there's already in the game, what the community that's playing the game has lived with for years, he doesn't like it. And what's his next move? He wants the game to be tailored for him, when the most logical conclusion would be to turn around and find something more suitable for you, something that shouldn't be changed and neither require you to go out of your way to enjoy playing it.

Returning to topic at hand, warlock players chose to play this class because they loved both the playstyle and the flavor of it as it is now (or was when they started playing). Why do newcomers to the class think, that making it more attractive in their opinion is a good reason to "prune" (i.e. cut and dumb down) existing signature class abilities, risking alienating the current players from the game?
It's not like an MMO class need to "appeal to a wider audience". Classes are niche roles players choose to assume when they create their character. If you don't like one - there's still ten more to pick from.

I don't think it necessarily needs to go (it's one keybind - I use it rarely in raids, often in CM's, and sometimes in pvp), but those most passionate about it staying seem to fall back on:
1. We've always had it so we should still have it.
2. It's iconic and fits the original class description.
3. The spell reflect argument

The first argument is pretty silly, by that logic we'd still be shard farming, affliction would still be casting immolate, etc...

The second argument is one people invoke whenever they don't have a logical reason for why things should or shouldn't change. We used to have 7 (8 with exhaustion), now we have two. There isn't a real reason beyond emotional attachment to the idea that we can't have 1 curse instead (or even no curses). 10 year old class descriptions don't make a good basis for logical argumentation. It's cool if YOU "like" CoE, but you can't really say argue that people who don't "like" it don't have a feeling just as valid.

Argument #3 is just not that impactful to the game overall. Like it or not, PvP is a small part of the game overall, and an even smaller sub-set of that gameplay is decided based on warlock interactions with warrior spell-reflect. This is a minor thing pvp-ers will learn to deal with (i.e. during spell reflect you will swap targets).

Again, I don't personally care either way. But I'm far from convinced I should based on these arguments.

I think one of the better solutions for it would be adding curse of elements into corruption/immolate. It would make having a good uptime of those dots a bit more important and we would get rid of the extra button for coe.

This is a good example of a problem that plagues not only World of Warcraft, but all video games today.
An outsider comes and upon seeing what there's already in the game, what the community that's playing the game has lived with for years, he doesn't like it. And what's his next move? He wants the game to be tailored for him, when the most logical conclusion would be to turn around and find something more suitable for you, something that shouldn't be changed and neither require you to go out of your way to enjoy playing it.

The horrors of 5.0 affliction revamp....

PvE is a minigame // Rerolled from affly to spriest after 8 years, thx pandaland changes

An outsider comes and upon seeing what there's already in the game, what the community that's playing the game has lived with for years, he doesn't like it. And what's his next move? He wants the game to be tailored for him, when the most logical conclusion would be to turn around and find something more suitable for you, something that shouldn't be changed and neither require you to go out of your way to enjoy playing it.

So, according to you, a player new to the class cant give any valid criticism because that player is "an outsider"? I only just began playing a lock when the 90 boost was made available, but that does not make me any less capable of passing on proper criticism, which it must have been considering blizzard chose to implement it. Get a grip.

So, according to you, a player new to the class cant give any valid criticism because that player is "an outsider"? I only just began playing a lock when the 90 boost was made available, but that does not make me any less capable of passing on proper criticism, which it must have been considering blizzard chose to implement it. Get a grip.

That's not what that paragraph is saying at all. It's about alienating the current playerbase to appease a nonexistant or potential playerbase that could get what they're wanting from elsewhere.