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Author
Topic: Karel radio host just said people with hiv deserve it (Read 9293 times)

At about 8:10pm EST NYC in discussing the oil catastrophe, the out gay political radio host and comic Karel host at green960.com i think he just said "[objectively] if you get HIV you deserve it 'cause you know how to avoid it, it's a hard virus to get and (then he repeated) you deserve it."

he qualified it with "unless you got it through needles or non-sexual means"

i really hope he didn't say that i have been working so hard on my self esteem regeneration so i can be in the presence of gay men again THE PODCAST SHOULD BE UP SOON (i am too sad after anger to email him in case he is the real blowhard i think he might be)

In my opinion, that is an example of clumsy wording by a presumably hiv- person.

You are going to hear more or less the same thing in these forums from a lot of people applied to a lot of HIV infections. Except in here, people will say if you have HIV, you are responsible for your infection.Its really only a matter of semantics between "responsible" or "deserve".

I hope you can build your self esteem on something more solid than moral judgments by strangers about HIV transmission.

« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 08:55:58 PM by mecch »

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

You are going to hear more or less the same thing in these forums from a lot of people applied to a lot of HIV infections. Except in here, people will say if you have HIV, you are responsible for your infection.Its really only a matter of semantics between "responsible" or "deserve".

I hope you can build your self esteem on something more solid than moral judgments by strangers about HIV transmission.

Pointy words of wisdom from our very own governess.

Far be it from me to correct you, ma'am but that should be "some people will say if you have HIV you are responsible for your infection."

ito counter the sadness and self-hatred brought about by gay men rejecting me now.

When you say reject are you referring to sex or friendship? Maybe your running with the wrong group. I have yet to be rejected by any gay man whether Poz or Neg friendship wise, and as far as sex what little Ive dabbled in I havent really received any rejection either.

You shouldnt be feeling self hatred regardless of the situation, yeah i think talking with a therapist might give you a different view on things.

I've heard a lot of gay guys say the same thing and be so vicious about it--even though some of them are whores and do it bareback, but want to get on their high horse. As was mentioned here earlier, we say the same thing--just in a more diplomatic way. We say you're responsible. No one deserves a terrible virus just because they had sex with someone.

I've heard a lot of gay guys say the same thing and be so vicious about it--even though some of them are whores and do it bareback, but want to get on their high horse. As was mentioned here earlier, we say the same thing--just in a more diplomatic way. We say you're responsible. No one deserves a terrible virus just because they had sex with someone.

Modified to say: Some of us say we're all responsible

I like to say I was irresponsible myself. Do you have an issue with whores Teddy? You know they're people too.

oh yeah mecch ? how'm i gonna build huh? feel free to suggest or don't whatever for you and the horse you rode in on LOL

and: and it isn't just strangers mech thank for your semantics clarification though

STIGMA OUT!

I'm confused. What happened to your post about being beaten to death on a dancefloor by a bunch of neggies armed with martini glasses? At least that was slightly humourous.

So this man said something nasty on the air. Oh well, you can count on the fact that other people out there think/feel the same way; they just don't voice it out of political correctness. If you allow what they think about HIV to define you or damage your psychology then you are giving them that power.

Good luck in dealing with what's affecting you. You did not deserve getting this, but as stated by La Meechie and Matty you'll see that round here (with the exception of borzel and a couple other people) we tend to accept responsibility for the actions that brought us where we are today.

Best regards,

Da Rev. (who didn't deserve this as he was immaculately infected)

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

this particular "host" isn't worth the time or effort. he's been on the 3-6 drive time slot for a while now and i really can't stand to listen to him for lots or reasons he's just obnoxious. have emailed the 960 station here in the bay area to voice my opinion. i now listen to music on the way home, probably better for me anyway. just my 2 cents worth.

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

this particular "host" isn't worth the time or effort. he's been on the 3-6 drive time slot for a while now and i really can't stand to listen to him for lots or reasons he's just obnoxious. have emailed the 960 station here in the bay area to voice my opinion. i now listen to music on the way home, probably better for me anyway. just my 2 cents worth.

THANK YOUI WANTED TO LIKE HIM BUT HE'S A PART OF ANOTHER COMMUNITY, THE GAY ONE I MISS IN A WAYBUT I WILL MEDITATE on poz.com's 'taking responsibility' tenet/mantra instead of his screaming stoned words....

THANK YOUI WANTED TO LIKE HIM BUT HE'S A PART OF ANOTHER COMMUNITY, THE GAY ONE I MISS IN A WAYBUT I WILL MEDITATE on poz.com's 'taking responsibility' tenet/mantra instead of his screaming stoned words....

Well it's not a Poz or AIDSmeds tenet [sic] or mantra. It's a view expressed by a number of forums members.

oh yeah mecch ? how'm i gonna build huh? feel free to suggest or don't whatever for you and the horse you rode in on LOL

and: and it isn't just strangers mech thank for your semantics clarification though

STIGMA OUT!

I agree with you, its not just strangers, OK.Build on all the things that have nothing to do with HIV, dear. Your work, friends, family, all the ways people who love you like you enjoy you and need you and have nothing to do with HIV.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

I agree with you, its not just strangers, OK.Build on all the things that have nothing to do with HIV, dear. Your work, friends, family, all the ways people who love you like you enjoy you and need you and have nothing to do with HIV.

you are being too nice to someone who technically told you to naff off. Matty's right, you are our local governess. Can we call you Jane Eyre?

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

It's a new phenomenon. More and more gay/bi people are rejecting HIV+ people whileheterosexual people seem to be more and more tolerant/supportive.

Yes, I deserve HIV because I slept once without a condom.That's my sin.

---''You deserve it'' sounds like something a Bible belt fanatic priest or Idaho mormon would say.I was expecting something more like ''You shall burn in Hell'' or something like that. That man is a frustrated freak.

It use to amaze me the things people say about people with HIV/AIDS but not anymore. Not this guy on the radio, or the medical "professionals" I work with, or gay men in general right here in NYC and the hateful things I hear. I had a friend I don't know well nor am close with anymore say to me..."How is anyone getting this disease these days they must be stupid". Yeah it cuts like a knife. I have found, as someone else mentioned, straight people be less judgemental and more supportive which surprised me. Maybe the gays think those of us with HIV are giving them a bad name? LOL who knows. I have not told many people and I am sure we have all had different experiences but for me personally here in NYC, I have found gay men to be MUCH more judgemental about it.

It's a new phenomenon. More and more gay/bi people are rejecting HIV+ people whileheterosexual people seem to be more and more tolerant/supportive.

Oh my, you mean my chances are improving? Oh dear, oh goodness me, I must get a perm, some new hosiery and a petticoat as there could be a gentleman caller in my future!! Oh yes and lipstick, plenty of lipstick. Don't you just love phenomenons?

At about 8:10pm EST NYC in discussing the oil catastrophe, the out gay political radio host and comic Karel host at green960.com i think he just said "[objectively] if you get HIV you deserve it 'cause you know how to avoid it, it's a hard virus to get and (then he repeated) you deserve it."

he qualified it with "unless you got it through needles or non-sexual means"

i really hope he didn't say that i have been working so hard on my self esteem regeneration so i can be in the presence of gay men again THE PODCAST SHOULD BE UP SOON (i am too sad after anger to email him in case he is the real blowhard i think he might be)

You missed a rather lengthy debate on a related issue a couple of weeks ago.

I am of the opinion that this kind of generalization is difficult. I think it depends on the situation, more specifically how likely it was for the person one had sex with to have HIV. In other words - if one chooses to have a condom-less gay encounter with a random dude in the city park he takes on a different kind of chance than a guy who has sex with his virgin gf who got HIV during a blood work 6 months before (hypothetical example).

I'm surprised everyday as these forums gain members because I, through the lens of having lived through 20+ yrs of this epidemic (like that radio host probably), and from having HIV myself, see all those warnings, ads, PSAs, pamphlets etc and can't believe that with all that, someone still ran the risk, had unprotected sex, and got infected over twenty years into this epidemic.

Unfortunately though, it's just human nature and I guess there's just no way to totally stop the behaviors that spread HIV. For example, consider how many girls will turn up pregnant today, while the fact of unprotected heterosexual sex frequently producing offspring has been a known fact for even longer than the fact that unprotected sex could pass along a number of STDs or HIV.

However, not even knowing about the stigma against people with HIV is enough to make people think twice obviously, since new infections are showing up daily. I would imagine that is where some of the flack from the gay community comes from. They probably find it hard to understand how someone can not only ignore the prevention message that has been out there so long; but also how someone can run the risk of the added stigma (stigma from society at large and from the gay community) of being positive.

Sadly, why it seems so surprising and what it means is that every bit of that prevention campaign over the last 2 decades against spreading/acquiring HIV hasn't worked everytime someone tests positive in 2010. A more callous person then will lay the "blame" at the feet of those who ignored all the warning; while a more rational person acknowledges the personal "responsibility" of those who chose to ignore the warnings.

"Fault", "blame", "responsibility", even "deserve" - all words that basically mean the same thing as yet another person ignored the warnings and engaged in behavior to acquire HIV. It's enough to nearly break my heart realizing that today, this very day, even more people will ignore the message and warnings and will end up HIV+ before the day is through.

For example, consider how many girls will turn up pregnant today, while the fact of unprotected heterosexual sex frequently producing offspring has been a known fact for even longer than the fact that unprotected sex could pass along a number of STDs or HIV.

[facetious]And you can bet that none of those dastardly men impregnating those women ever disclosed that they had sperm. Likewise, the women never disclosed that they had eggs. It's terrible.[/facetious]

"Fault", "blame", "responsibility", even "deserve" - all words that basically mean the same thing

Not really. That's the beauty of the English language - we often have so many different words that mean basically the same thing, but carry different nuances with which we can be more precise in getting the meaning of our thoughts across.

I most certainly did not deserve my infection. But was I responsible for my infection? Absolutely. Very different nuance.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You missed a rather lengthy debate on a related issue a couple of weeks ago.

I am of the opinion that this kind of generalization is difficult. I think it depends on the situation, more specifically how likely it was for the person one had sex with to have HIV. In other words - if one chooses to have a condom-less gay encounter with a random dude in the city park he takes on a different kind of chance than a guy who has sex with his virgin gf who got HIV during a blood work 6 months before (hypothetical example).

That makes absolutely no difference. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what someone's history is except through their own admission which can be fundamentally flawed. That's why here they pretty much say you should assume everyone has something (HIV or otherwise) until you've developed a monogamous relationship with them over time. At that point there are still caveats. Unprotected sex is putting your life into someone else's hands. That same girl in your 'example' could've been a nympho taking on all comers at a truckstop daily for the last 8 months, who then spun some story about an immaculate infection. Trying to assess risk using someone's past is just completely ineffective.

That same girl in your 'example' could've been a nympho taking on all comers at a truckstop daily for the last 8 months

What's it with you and truckstops? Are these like popular meeting spots in Natchez or something?

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

ďAnd there are so many (gays in Natchez,)Ē Miller said. ďItís like a little Castro.Ē...Mars and Miller said one unique aspect of Natchezís gay life is the high number of men that are married with children that lead both gay and straight lives.

But theyíre not naming names....ďAll the men are gay after midnight in in Natchez,Ē

What's it with you and truckstops? Are these like popular meeting spots in Natchez or something?

Well I could say bathhouses but for a straight woman slutting it up in a bath house probably isn't the norm. In Mississippi pre-internet guys used to get busted at the truck stops all the time, so in my mind it's connotative of sleazy random hookups. You could just as easily say Strip Clubs, fleabag motels, or what have you.

I most certainly did not deserve my infection. But was I responsible for my infection? Absolutely. Very different nuance.

ah! nuances. hence my comparison of a "callous" person and a "rational" person talking about the same situation. A callous person probably does believe that people do deserve the consequences of their actions, while a kinder person tries to soften the blow of reality by saying people are responsible for the consequences of their actions.

if you (of sound mind and reasonable age) run out into the middle of traffic without looking, do you deserve to get hit for your stupidity/carelessness?

does anyone "deserve" the consequences of their actions? Maybe, maybe not - but that's what we're asking for and going to get - the consequences. it's just sad that in 2010, people are still "asking" for the consequence of having HIV.

Yeah Trey, you alwys complain about there being no Gays in Snatchez....well right there in the pic that Philly posted are 2 fine Tea drinking examples for you. go get 'em tiger!

-W

I don't know why he's always whining -- from that article it seems that Natchez is the gayest place in the state. I have lovely visions of seersucker pants, honeysuckle, moonlit verandas and bountiful mint julips.

And how bout bathhouses? Those two tea-drinking queens look like the kinda bears you'd find trolling the halls of your local Club Body Center.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

That makes absolutely no difference. The truth of the matter is you have no idea what someone's history is except through their own admission which can be fundamentally flawed. That's why here they pretty much say you should assume everyone has something (HIV or otherwise) until you've developed a monogamous relationship with them over time. At that point there are still caveats. Unprotected sex is putting your life into someone else's hands. That same girl in your 'example' could've been a nympho taking on all comers at a truckstop daily for the last 8 months, who then spun some story about an immaculate infection. Trying to assess risk using someone's past is just completely ineffective.

Why is probability so hard to grasp? The probability that a gay guy in a park has HIV is a thousand (million?) times higher than a 19yr old girl who says she is a virgin to her bf.

She might be lying and she might be a nympho - but the guy in the park already displays numerous qualities that make his HIV status very likely.

To my knowledge there are roughly 6 gay bars in the state none of them are in close proximity to Natchez

Maybe you've just not cracked the scene down there -- there's a bit of inconsistency with what the tea sippers are telling us here. Mebbe a bit less truckstoppin' and more julep sippin' for socializing?