Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Hmmm, not funny AND not original either. At least when Nick accused me of this he attached a link that provided a punchline. Keep trying, you might get everyone to think you're humorous some day.

Where are all the complaints about this thread being hijacked by off-topic material by the way? Shouldn't your attempts at smack-talk be redirected to the appropriate forum so the rest of us can keep talking about the topic? I mean, I already have to come over to a different forum just so I'm allowed to utter the name Kurt Warner, it would be nice if I didn't have to listen to you try out your material.

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Let's see, Mok is in Bakersfield and AV is in Florida.......hmmmmmm.........I'm thinking he's bluffing MOK!!!! Oh and can I be on that Nerf team AV is Talking about. And when we play AV's team, he's all mine!!!!!LOL :tongue:

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Originally Posted by moklerman

Where are all the complaints about this thread being hijacked by off-topic material by the way? Shouldn't your attempts at smack-talk be redirected to the appropriate forum so the rest of us can keep talking about the topic?

I would think someone so concerned about keeping smack talk in the appropriate forum wouldn't have thrown down the gauntlet, as you did on page three. Seems rather odd to take a jab at someone and then complain when they give it back to you. Just my two cents. :confused:

Anyways, I would expect Warner to handily beat out McCown for the starting job. So with a quarterback, a somewhat improved offensive line, and some young up-and-coming receivers, it looks like all the Cardinals need is a halfback. Enter Ronnie Brown in the first round, and that's a potentially dangerous offense.

On the other hand, you have to wonder whether or not their defense is going to be good enough for them to win. The Cards have added a solid defensive end from Seattle and a safety in Griffith, but traded away the only defensive player who scored (Starks) in 2004 and lost their middle linebacker, who ranked third in tackles for them last season. If the Cardinals think they can get a solid running back in the second round, Antrel Rolle or Pacman Jones in round one would be a nice addition to counter the loss of Starks in the secondary. They could then try and go for someone like Barrett Rudd, Kirk Morrison, or McCune in the third round to fill their MLB role, though I think it would be risky asking a rookie linebacker to replace McKinnon like that.

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

For everyone's entertainment, some PFT.com articles on the signing, starting with their first reports, getting more recent as you scroll down...

WARNER FLIES TO 'ZONA

John Clayton of ESPN reports that two-time NFL MVP Kurt Warner has signed with the Cardinals.

The Cardinals will be Warner's third team in three seasons, and he brings some stability to a quarterback position that was riddled with inconsistency in 2004.

Warner signed a one-year, $4 million contract. Last year, he inked a two-year deal with the Giants, but the contract was structured to be a one-year deal with the cap charge for the signing bonus spread over two years. The cap-rich Cardinals need not worry about spreading the money, and Warner's full salary becomes guaranteed if he's on the roster come opening day.

The team's decision to permit Warner to sign a one-year deal only suggests that the veteran is a short-term fix only, which means that the Cards might be looking for their quarterback of the future in the upcoming draft.

WHY A ONE-YEAR DEAL FOR WARNER?

In the wake of quarterback Kurt Warner's decision to sign with the Arizona Cardinals for only one season, league insiders are scratching their heads over whether Warner specifically asked for it and, if so, why?

One league insider put it bluntly when he said, "If [Warner] could get a long-term deal and didn't, he is a f--king idiot."

Warner gets a $2 million signing bonus and $2 million in salary for 2005, with no commitment by team or player for 2006. From Warner's perspective, the risk is that he has no security beyond 2005. From the team's perspective, the risk is that, if Warner's career takes off again in 2005, he's in position to leverage a bigger deal out of them next year.

And as outlined in our mock draft, we think that the Cardinals will jump on quarterbacks Aaron Rodgers or Alex Smith, if either is available when Arizona exercises the No. 8 overall pick. This would partially explain why the team wouldn't want to commit to Warner for more than one season -- and why Warner would be leery about locking himself in beyond 2005.

Meanwhile, the two-time former MVP is still spinning his release from the Rams, and his benching last season in New York. As to the Giants' gig, Warner has suggested that he didn't get yanked because of his performance (even though he lost two games in a row to fall to 5-4 before getting pulled).

As to the Rams, Warner apparently is hinting that he got shafted by team management. "The media has made so many determinations on what's wrong with me and why I'm not in St. Louis anymore," Warner said last week. "And nobody knows the whole story. It's not something I'm going to talk about. But I know that the reason I'm not in St. Louis is not because I can't play this football game. It didn't have anything to do with my skills diminishing."

Now, Warner is committed to the Cardinals, even if he's technically committed for only a single season. "Even though this is a one-year deal, I really don't want to go anywhere else," Warner said, "and would like nothing more than to end my career by helping the Cardinals win a championship."

AGENT ISSUES DROVE WARNER'S ONE-YEAR DEAL?

As more and more league insiders echo our sentiment that quarterback Kurt Warner's decision to sign a one-year contract with the Cardinals is unusual, to say the least, we think that perhaps we've identified a reason for the very short-term deal.

Warner is represented by Mark Bartelstein, and Bartelstein's agency also represents Cardinals quarterback Josh McCown, who necessarily will be supplanted by Warner in 2005.

It's possible, then, that Bartelstein suggested and/or agreed to such an arrangement in order to minimize the likelihood that McCown will dump Bartelstein's agency in lieu of other representation.

Then again, whether it's a one-year deal or a lifetime contract, our guess is that McCown isn't thrilled with Warner's arrival. Unless, of course, Bartelstein's people were able to persuade McCown that a year of experience working behind the two-time former MVP will be beneficial to McCown's long-term development.

The situation will become very interesting if Warner's performance ignites discussions on a long-term contract. Our guess is that, if that happens, Bartelstein's challenge will then be to persuade McCown to accept his role as the backup to Warner, with the hopes of succeeding him if/when he retires.

WHAT WILL WARNER DO IN 'ZONA?

Our initial focus regarding the acquisition of quarterback Kurt Warner has been directed to the bizarre one-year contract that he signed.

But in that one year in Arizona, what will Warner do? On Monday, we got some input from an NFC personnel exec regarding the likely impact of Warner with the Cardinals.

"He is better than anyone Arizona has but he is still limited," said the source. "I really question his [toughness] when he starts to get knocked around. When he is protected he plays well. When you put pressure on him his play really falters.

"I think he is an ideal backup because he can win you a few games, but I question if he can play well for more than 5 or 6 games."

In 2004, Warner led the Giants to a 5-2 record. But in his final two starts, the team faded to 5-4.

The primary knock on Warner is that he holds the ball too long. His biggest successes have come in a rhythm-based attack, where he throws the ball from a short drop and doesn't try to navigate a disintegrating pocket.

So the challenge for Cardinals coach Dennis Green will be to adapt his offense to mesh with Warner's skills. And Green knows a thing or two about adjusting the attack to accommodate a new quarterback. From Rich Gannon to Sean Salisbury to Jim McMahon to Warren Moon to Brad Johnson to Randall Cunningham to Jay Fiedler to Jeff George to Daunte Culpepper to Josh McCown to Shaun King to John Navarre, Green's 11 years as an head coach has involved 12 different quarterbacks who have started at least one game.

Number 13 is No. 13, and Warner (even with his limitations) stacks up very well against the dozen other guys who have taken snaps for Coach Green.

ONE-YEAR DEAL WAS A FALLBACK

Although the spin resulting from the decision of quarterback Kurt Warner to sign a one-year deal with the Cardinals is that Warner believes a strong performance in 2005 will create an opportunity for a big payday either from the Cardinals or elsewhere in 2006, a league source tells us that the short-term option was utilized because Warner wanted way too much money on a long-term contract with the Cardinals.

This news bolsters our opinion that, when it comes to Warner, it's often more about form than substance. Since he and Yoko broke onto the scene in 1999, we've been very leery of the image that they've tried to cultivate, and we're always suspicious of folks who thump the Bible and talk openly of their piety and good works -- not only because such conduct seems to contradict the teachings of the New Testament but also because we think that, at a very basic level, people who try to get others to focus on such goody-goody aspects of their character might have some darker traits that they're hoping to keep under wraps.

In this specific case, we're not saying that Warner should have declared at his press conference that he would have done a long-term deal if the team had met his salary and bonus demands. But we nevertheless think that Warner and his agent should not have then tried to characterize the resulting contract as a badge of honor without disclosing that Warner would have done a long-term deal if the team merely had caved to his unjustifiably lofty demands.

yea, it must be nice to write a story, w/o naming a single source. :confused: I guess we'll just trust you boys over at PFT.com on this one, huh.

This news bolsters our opinion

What news?!?! This whole piece has been your opinion!

Since he and Yoko broke onto the scene in 1999, we've been very leery of the image that they've tried to cultivate, and we're always suspicious of folks who thump the Bible and talk openly of their piety and good works -- not only because such conduct seems to contradict the teachings of the New Testament

Yea, nothing like a philosophical and religious difference of opinions to screw up some good ol' fashioned "sports reporting"!

we think that, at a very basic level, people who try to get others to focus on such goody-goody aspects of their character might have some darker traits that they're hoping to keep under wraps.

yea, unadulterated cynicism, that's the answer boys. :confused:

PFT.com is the most worthless mound of pig carcass to ever cross the Internet.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

I would think someone so concerned about keeping smack talk in the appropriate forum wouldn't have thrown down the gauntlet, as you did on page three.

Just think, this whole conversation could have been avoided if "someone" would have stayed on topic. Where is the line anyway? Av can take a crack at a writer but I'm the one who started the smack by calling him on it? Of course, I'm completely flabbergasted that you'd side with a moderator on something, Nick. That's so out of character.

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

I know we all have our opinions on Warner which run the spectrum from Satan to the 2nd Coming, but one thing we can all agree on is that no other name generates as much discussion right now. This makes the 70th post on this thread which is better than twice as much as the next busiest thread.

We do love our Warner discussions around here.

"Before the gates of excellence the high gods have placed sweat; long is the road thereto and rough and steep at first; but when the heights are reached, then there is ease, though grievously hard in the winning." --- Hesiod

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Originally Posted by HUbison

I know we all have our opinions on Warner which run the spectrum from Satan to the 2nd Coming, but one thing we can all agree on is that no other name generates as much discussion right now. This makes the 70th post on this thread which is better than twice as much as the next busiest thread.

We do love our Warner discussions around here.

And we probably always will. For better or worse, whether you love him or not, Kurt Warner is forever an enduring Ram icon and a benchmark for the ultimate success. It seems that few of us can stay away from the Warner discussions, even those that could care less.

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

Originally Posted by moklerman

Just think, this whole conversation could have been avoided if "someone" would have stayed on topic. Where is the line anyway? Av can take a crack at a writer but I'm the one who started the smack by calling him on it? Of course, I'm completely flabbergasted that you'd side with a moderator on something, Nick. That's so out of character.

Wow, mok! Shifting the blame by saying Avenger started the smack talk by criticizing an on-topic article, then following that up with an unwarranted shot at me merely because I pointed out your hypocrisy... sounds like you've hit two birds with one stone! What a day for you! Congrats, big guy!

Furthermore, I'm so glad you were able to get back to discussing football. After all, the majority of my post - which you seemingly did not quote - tried to get this thread back on the topic you appeared to be longing for on page four. I'm so happy you decided to run with that and help this thread revert back to football discu---

Re: Warner signs with Arizona

then following that up with an unwarranted shot at me merely because I pointed out your hypocrisy

Kind of like you praising AV for "zing"ing me?

I tried ignoring his posts but he just keeps going with his stupid jokes. After a whole page of off topic conversation I decided it's pointless to do anything but join the crowd. Look at who's doing these things and who's in charge around here. Nothing's going to change by me pointing it out or complaining about it.

Just like so many threads, AV had to chime in with some stupid/derogatory comment rather than simply disagree with something and explain his position or not comment at all.

But like I said, none of this matters because you guys are all buddy-buddy with each other and nothing's going to change.