Suicide Fox wrote:Fun fact, going from 50-85 in 25 PTs would cost you about 875g if you used 25AP each turn!

It says 1.5of AP in gold so it would actually be 937.5 gold in 25 PTs or 37.5 gold each PT. Difficult to get but not impossible if I opened and ran a successful shop and got money in advance for crafting. I could even go with two stats like a breeder/artisan combo. Wealth(e) alone gets you 500 gold if I am not mistaken?

Rebel wrote:It says 1.5of AP in gold so it would actually be 937.5 gold in 25 PTs or 37.5 gold each PT. Difficult to get but not impossible if I opened and ran a successful shop and got money in advance for crafting. I could even go with two stats like a breeder/artisan combo. Wealth(e) alone gets you 500 gold if I am not mistaken?

Yup, you right. That was going to be part of my strategy for the real game as well. Crafting > Training by the looks of it.

I would assume it will get nerfed since in addition to providing a ton of exp, it gives you crafting points to either make gear with for either yourself or sell.

A basic crafter makes around 2x of crafting points from the gold (25AP=37.5 gold and let's say 75 crafting points)An expert would make more than to 3x (same AP and gold cost, but with a 50% bonus to crafting points).All the crafter needs is some starting capital (spend 1 sp on wealth).

ShadInquis wrote:I would assume it will get nerfed since in addition to providing a ton of exp, it gives you crafting points to either make gear with for either yourself or sell.

A basic crafter makes around 2x of crafting points from the gold (25AP=37.5 gold and let's say 75 crafting points)An expert would make more than to 3x (same AP and gold cost, but with a 50% bonus to crafting points).All the crafter needs is some starting capital (spend 1 sp on wealth).

This was the idea I had in mind with my build, but don't forget, you need to spend gold every PT and invest in SP starting out, so, you're likely initially behind other characters in terms of usefulness out of the box (probably except for the Int-Invent-Craftsman combo) if you plan to train multiple stats. Don't forget how long it takes to master a skill now, based on what we saw in the PT. So, it is not as overpowered as it seems. It also seems that gold is much harder to come by this version, so if you think about it, most officers will get only 60 gold a season, but you need to keep getting more gold if you want to do anything higher than 1AP per craft.

I mention the 1AP because the rules say that it rounds up to the nearest 5 AP. See note 9.

It wasn't nerfed for the last game. My ruler, Yang Shang, had 110 CHA towards the end of the game and could insta recruit any NPC. Character growth is already so slow it would be silly if they nerfed it. We need crafters anyway, there never really is enough. Instead of nerfing that EXP to be honest they should RAISE training exp, raise the rate you can learn skills, etc.

I did raise the low skill experience thing and XM said they are still reviewing experience etc. Theoretically, one could raise 3 stats simultaneously from 50 to 85 in less time than it would take to learn one 2sp skill, provided they can get enough gold to do so. A player could end up with a statline that looks like 85-85-80-80-85 in 25 PTs.

Not that I am complaining but I am inclined to think this will get axed in some way down the road after the game starts and I will probably scream because I would have rolled a crafting character.

Silverwarp wrote: It also seems that gold is much harder to come by this version, so if you think about it, most officers will get only 60 gold a season, but you need to keep getting more gold if you want to do anything higher than 1AP per craft.

No-no-no. The salary is 60 gold a season. A single action (patrol/magistrate) can get you 60-70 gold too. It's not guaranteed, but you get 9 chances per season.

I mention the 1AP because the rules say that it rounds up to the nearest 5 AP. See note 9.

I would imagine 1-2 AP would round to 0, and long as regular rounding rules apply.

They need to shift the tiers down to something like this for it to be less ridiculous. Specialized builds would do too well. You don't need that many skills to be useful in KTs or on the Battlefield. Your stats being beefed up not only by the crafting stat experience, but all the items you'll be crafting, the stat lines will look ridiculous.

Suicide Fox wrote:Fun fact, going from 50-85 in 25 PTs would cost you about 875g if you used 25AP each turn!

Assuming an average of 70 stat and non-expertised skill, you will make 1750 crafting points. Enough for 4 of +3 items. If you sold them for 300 a piece that would be 1200 gold. Once you start getting higher stats and expertised skills the value gets out of hand.

Unless they completely remove starting gold for the full game and nerf gold so that nobody can afford to buy the items you're selling, crafting is way too strong now. But if they can't afford to buy discounted crafted items, they can't afford items at all.

Something I miss from PTs in previous versions is the ability to tutor stats and skills. I realise that you can still do that, but it seems that the tutor must give up most of their AP to effectively tutor their student each PT, rather than setting up a kind of reciprocal situation that was viable before. Now to do so, AP would have to be split between the two actions which would reduce the effectiveness and draw out the study times for both parties. While I understand that the new setup allows for more PTs per month than before, the much reduced AP limit means tutoring appears to me to be just not a viable option anymore, which is a great shame.

Of course, it's entirely possible that I've missed something and am wrong about this. Or perhaps people don't care so much about this aspect of the game. But I thought I would mention it seeing things are being tested at the moment.

They need to shift the tiers down to something like this for it to be less ridiculous. Specialized builds would do too well. You don't need that many skills to be useful in KTs or on the Battlefield. Your stats being beefed up not only by the crafting stat experience, but all the items you'll be crafting, the stat lines will look ridiculous.

Suicide Fox wrote:Fun fact, going from 50-85 in 25 PTs would cost you about 875g if you used 25AP each turn!

Assuming an average of 70 stat and non-expertised skill, you will make 1750 crafting points. Enough for 4 of +3 items. If you sold them for 300 a piece that would be 1200 gold. Once you start getting higher stats and expertised skills the value gets out of hand.

Unless they completely remove starting gold for the full game and nerf gold so that nobody can afford to buy the items you're selling, crafting is way too strong now. But if they can't afford to buy discounted crafted items, they can't afford items at all.

The game economy and gold would be a very delicate thing to touch as it affects gold in taxes for kingdom structures/drafting/armament building etc. Starting gold doesn't matter as there will always be factions opting to buy bling for their officers. Gold is not the problem, I think... if it takes a player 25 PTs to make a profit of 1200g - 875g = 325g?

Also for the record, I am neither in favor of nerfing the experience gain nor against it. But it should not be changed after the game has started and we've rolled our characters based on it is all I'm saying.

I'm pretty sure a number of players used these crafting tactics for exp last version, myself included. In the end nothing was too broken, but it could also be because perhaps the builds weren't specialized. As I said, my ruler had 110 CHA but maybe no one noticed and it wasn't a big deal because I only used it to recruit NPCs and write letters to other factions NPCs and steal them.

I would rather see the EXP gains stay the same and training & the other actions scale to match. Slow character growth is boring!

ShadInquis wrote:As discussed in the other thread, I could accept fast growth, if the starting stats are appropriately reduced to something like 70-70-50-50-50. Starting high and growing fast is just annoying.

I've always imagined though, so that as the game progresses, you over take most NPC's from history. If you start too low, you don't matter. If you don't grow fast enough, you'll never compete with the Lu Bu's and Zhuge Liang's of the era. NPC's are nice as pillars of what you aim to be, if they're were the 'best' from history, but the 'story' is more or less supposed to focus more on the players, no? If you don't grow to surpass the NPC's, then why isn't the game about them, just like history?