"It's Supernatural" Guest Appearances

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Monthly Archives: February 2014

Sid: My guest LA Marzulli I’m interviewing him on his brand new book just literally off the press “On the Trail of the Nephilim. If you recall the Nephilim were the fallen angels that cohabited with the daughters of man and produced hybrid race that unfortunately were giants and evil. Some of the things that LA has uncovered are absolutely amazing to me; tell me some of your research that you found in Peru.

LA: Well, the Peru research Sid was absolutely just mind blowing. The reason why we went there was we knew that we could find evidence of what we believe of course are Nephilim skulls because there are many private museums in Peru. And we zoned in on one of them, or zeroed in on one of these museums and I’ll never forget when we walked in and there in the display case were over 40 skulls just shown. And we were able to open the display case, handle them; photograph them, test them, measure them everything that you would want to do.

Sid: Now just out of curiosity something that looks so out of this world to me really is these skulls that are elongated they’re not like human skulls.

LA: There’s a process known as cradle head boarding or cranial deformation; cranial refers to the skull, cradle head boarding means that you’re taking an infant like less than one year old, six months old infant. And I’ve actually seen one of these devices which were used; they would place one of them on the front of the baby and in the rear and they would bind the head; and so as the child grows it shapes the skull into an elongated like a cone head type shape.

Sid: Is it sort of like the Japanese would wrap the feet and so that they would have real tiny… some Japanese women would have very tiny feet. Same principal, okay go ahead.

LA: And it’s the same idea they’re manipulating bone structure. Now when we were in Peru and we saw these skulls it became very apparent which ones were cradle head-boarded, or cranial head deformation deliberately done by human being to other human beings when they were very very small. What blew us away Sid were the skulls that we have and what we saw at the Paracas museum; these were cone head shapes or elongated type skulls. Now a little bit of back story is needed here and this is what differentiates these skulls from the normal human skull. All of us on this planet basically have four plates; okay four plates which comprise the human skull. They are frontal plate, the two parietal on the top of the skull and then the one in the rear called the occipital; frontal two parietal occipital one in the rear. Many of these skulls which we saw in Peru had only one parietal plate the stitching, or they’re called sutures, which hold these plates together are very evident; you can see them with the naked eye. And on all these skulls in Peru not all the ones but the ones that we believe are possibly are the Nephilim skulls. There is only one parietal plate; there should be a suture going down from the top of the frontal plate right in front of the skull and all of the way on the top of the head which goes back to the rear of the skull; that wasn’t there. Not even a trace of it; not even the faintest trace of it.

Sid: And so what is the explanation for that?

LA: The explanation is and that’s only one feature. The bones underneath the eyes which are called the zygomatic arch were very pronounced in many of these skulls. The upper jaw which is known as the maxilla again very pronounced; the lower jaw the mandible very very robust. These skulls had many anomalies, the nasal cavity for instance was a disaster area according to several medical doctors who looked at these things. On the top of the frontal plate right in the front there was sort of like a ridge the size of your little finger going all the way around it and you can’t make that from cradle head boarding; you can’t manipulate that. And the rear of the largest skull which we of course believe were the male skulls there was this heart shaped dome on the back of the top back of the skull. Again with only one parietal plate where there should be two. So these skulls were certainly anomalous and this where the red hair came from one of these skulls which again only had one parietal.

Sid: But what does this prove?

LA: Well, it proves that there’s some sort of genetic manipulation going on that’s what it proves and because the Paracas culture springs into being between 3000 and 3500 years ago it fits the timeline of the diaspora; of the people leaving, or these Nephilim tribes, leaving the promise land in the wake of the conquest.

Sid: Okay, but how do we not know this is just not part of what evolutionists call the evolutionary cycle and it sum’s between an ape and a man?

LA: We had these skulls examined by two medical doctors who told us unequivocally that these are not the skulls of apes or any other primates that they are human skulls but they are genetic differences in them. There are differences in these skulls and we believe that these are not completely human.

Sid: Now tell me some of the other things you found in Peru.

LA: Well, one of the places we went to was a place called Huatara and this was about 7,000 feet above sea level at the foot hills of the Andes. And where we went was absolutely in the middle of nowhere a little small town. In the area there was a Catholic church which was built over a very old existing structure. And when you’re in the church it’s very very dark hard to see but we saw this very complex megalithic stone work polygonal shaped, not one stone was identical to another; and yet the joinery was so perfect you could… no mortar was construction. You couldn’t put a human hair through it and when we walked outside the church around to the rear of church or the side of the church it became very evident that there was different builders that was here. That whatever this thing was there were trapezoidal shapes, the stonework was absolutely mind boggling, mind blowing how it was shaped. These stones are some of the weigh between 4 to 10 to 15 to 20 tons each. They’re placed there in a way that you’d be hard pressed to do it today. The stones were polygonal; what I mean by that many different sided and those cuts go all the way back six feet in that wall. So if you see angles of one stone, those angles traced that whole stone from beginning to the end they make up that wall. You could create it today Sid with the tools that we have but we’re talking giant saws to cut these things without any vibration in the saw and then somehow, you know it would be very very time consuming. And yet we see this structure 1000’s of years old and it begs the question who made them? And even more mysterious “How did they do that without the tools that we have in the modern age?”

Sid: And as we discussed earlier this week some of these stones are what 40 tons; how did they move them?

LA: Well, the stones and Saksaywaman and Cusco were the largest megalithic stones that we saw and some of these were as large as 120 tons. And remember the Saksaywaman is about 12,000 feet above sea level.

Sid: This is in Peru; go ahead.

LA: Peru. The quarry is 40 to 60 miles away and remember the Inca did not use the wheel so this begs a question, first of all how do we quarry these things at 2000 feet below the 12,000 foot level 40 miles away? And how the heck do we get them there and how do we shape them into these polygonal structures. And the photographs speak louder and show a person what we’re really looking at. Again in the modern age you might be able to do this but it would be so costly; and yet these stones are shaped, they’re mortarless there are no mortar at all they are 1000’s of years old. They are very very ancient, and no one knows where they came from, no one knows the builders and the building techniques have long ago been lost.

Sid: Tell me some of the more interesting things you found in the museums in Peru.

LA: Well again there are some museums where the elongated or the cone head type skull is able to be viewed. One in particular museum was the Ica Museum. This skull that was there, which we have photographs of, was found in the Chongo Necropolis and the Chongo Necropolis is right next door to Paracas, Peru. The Paracas museum may recall is where we were able to handle the skull. This Necropolis is seven miles it goes back into the desert seven miles; it was one of the most bleak places I’ve ever been. It’s like the Sahara it’s just desert and as your walking through this area the grave robbers for the last 500 years have been digging in this area and the place is strewn, it’s all private it’s private land. It’s strewn with mummy wrappings and human remains and pottery shard as far as the eye could see. It was the most bazaar place I’ve ever been in my life! And in the Chongos, the Chongos skull was in the Ica museum it was that of a male, one parietal plate; remember that was the plate on the top of the skull.

Sid: Right.

LA: Should be intersected with a suture from the frontal to the rear plate it’s not one parietal plate. Then on top of it it has this heart shaped mound which should not be there. So again going back to the cradle deformation, or cradle head-boarding, where they bind the infants head at a very young age obviously with material and begin to shape the head this is not what we’re looking at. I believe that is genetic manipulation by an outside source; that outside source being the fallen angels. These are in my opinion Nephilim.

Sid: Now let’s go back to our institution the Smithsonian; why wouldn’t the Smithsonian have this front and center they’d have people coming from all over the world to their museum?

LA: Well, I’ll tell you something Sid it’s really interesting when we went into Lima, and I’ll answer your question with this because it ties right into it. I went to Lima first and the reason why I went to Lima is I wanted to see the golden mummies which I knew were on display. These are 9 foot mummies, okay 9 footers; guess what Sid, they’re no longer there.

Sid: Why?

LA: They’ve been taken down.

Sid: Why?

LA: To add one thing to it we went to the National Museum where they have…where they used to have an entire room of elongated cranial deformation which we believe are Nephilim skulls cone head skulls. A whole room, that section of the museum boarded up, closed down under renovation been that way for 4 to 6 months. I asked the people “Where are the skulls? Oh we have them, we’re going to show them at some point in time.” The bottom line is this… the window is closing, and window is closing because it goes against the Darwinian paradigm. Which talks about the Baringian Lambridge the Bering Strait.

Sid: As far as I’m concerned your research really throws a monkey wrench in the whole evolution concoction.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to be a worker, we want everyone everywhere you have got such unique DNA there is no one that has ever been created just like you, and you have a purpose, you have a destiny. And I have found something and I am going to shout it from the roof tops it’s a new book by James Rutz it called “Mega Shift” because there is a MEGASHIFT going on in the Body of Messiah. Part of this mega shift I’ve been talking about for 20 years and that is the law of evangelism going to the Jew first which opens up a supernatural door of evangelism to Gentiles greater than if you’d gone to the Gentile first. And celebrating the Biblical festivals because they’re not just Biblical festivals they’re not just Jewish festivals, they are God’s feasts. And in the Hebrew the word feasts means set appointments, they are appointments with God. But because many people have taken these Biblical feasts and have become legalistic or said they had something to do with your salvation people have thrown out the baby with the dirty bath water. But it’s time to take these God appointments and Tim and Katie what I see is this house church movement and the institutional church movement are not working opposite each other it’s all part of the body of Messiah. And I can see all of us coming together for a feast of Tabernacles celebration and we won’t have a football game going on during that day because we’ll rent the entire football stadium and will all come together worship God on a God festival He will show up and Jewish people that don’t know the Messiah will say “What is this, black and white, and male and female, and Jew and Gentile and African American and Hispanic, and Asian and Native American, and what is going on? And they’re dancing together and they love each other and people are getting healed and then if you’ll allow me I’d like to put this on my television show It’s Supernatural. And I’ve got Time and Katie Mather in the office right now, they’re spokesman for the Mega-shift Ministry. Can you see that? Can you see stadiums filled with God’s children and God being so pleased that He shows up.

Tim: I think that the Lord’s going to give us back this culture, I think that He’s going to give us back this culture and the impact isn’t for the culture or for the politics it’s for the Kingdom of God. And as we come together and set aside all those differences we have to set aside especially those that may be listening who are part of the people who have left structural institutional church.

Sid: Are there many like this around the United States.

Tim: The researchers Barna Research says right now it’s a little difficult to grasp, but between 20 and 30 million born again, Bible believing Christian people have left the institutional church and are not going back.

Sid: And why have most of them left, do you know I’m sure it’s diverse reasons but what would you say?

Tim: I would say that many are angry, they’re angry at being told to mobilize what we’ve been talking about, we’ve been told to mobilize and then not being allowed to mobilize not being allowed to do anything. And there’s a lot of spiritual abuse that happens in that process of restraining people while saying go out and do.

Katie: I think a lot are just hungry for more, they’ve been… a lot of them have been in the church for a long time, they’ve done everything that there is to do within the structure, but they know that there is so much more that the Lord wants to do within them that they’re capable of. Because of the mobility of our society and even being able to go around the world they know that that they can do so much more for Christ.

Sid: Katie from your eyes, I know every meeting in a house church is different. Could you paint me a picture of what might happen at one meeting in your house congregation? First of all how many people might you have there?

Katie: Well, it could be anywhere from 2 or 3, the very smallest and the Lord shows up even among 2 or 3. We suggest that don’t go any higher than 12 or 15 because then you really lose the intimacy of the small group where people are able to share with one another sharing their lives and what the Lord’s doing in their lives. Because when it gets larger than 15 it’s time to divide, where in the institution they see that division is a bad thing. Within the home church community division is a good thing that means growth, that means now one fellowship can become 2 or 3 and even grow even more.

Sid: But what goes on in the meeting itself?

Katie: In the meeting itself we see a lot of things happen, people come with whatever they have to bring. And sometimes it’s a revelation they’ve received personally from the Lord. Sometimes it’s a scripture that’s really been burning in their heart that they want to share that the Lord’s been speaking to them. Some have come with songs that they have written and they share them and others are moved. Some come with a problem and share it and others are able to pray over them. One home meeting a fellow stood up and said “I feel that there are several people here who are caring such brokenness in their spirit that it’s time now to really give that to the Lord so why don’t you just let us just pray for you.” And actually not just 1 or 2 stepped up but 4 stepped forward and said “Yeah, that’s me.” And we had opportunity to pray with them for deep healing and some long carried wounds in their life. One of those people even had a restoration in their relationship with their father and to see that kind of change and transformation really bring about something supernatural in people’s lives is a powerful thing to happen in a small group.

Sid: Tim a lot of people that are believers that have not dropped out of the system like the big churches because they can hide. Can you hide in a home church?

Tim: It’s a little difficult to hide when you’re sitting across the room from someone and they look and say “Hey what’s going on with you?” and begin conversation it’s a little difficult to hide. And so the anonymity that we like in the big group is basically lost in the living room.

Sid: Well, one of the things I said to both of you is I want you, I didn’t say this I should have, I want your number one as my guest to have fun and number two I want you to yield to the Spirit of God not to me. And the only restriction is time because that we don’t have control over. However, is that what you’d tried to do at your house meeting what I’m trying to do right now on the air?

Tim: Yeah, absolutely finding out who people are, where they are and letting them bring a piece to this puzzle that we find Jesus in them and they begin to minister to that one to another and they become… there is a rich koinonia and that’s developed. And I as a recovering pastor

Sid: (Laughing)

Tim: I have gained rich insight and my life is much richer having these people talk to me and minister to me and care for me in the midst of it instead of me having to be the all-knowing, all seeing-eye.

Sid: So Tim what can someone do in your house church that they could not do in their traditional church be it charismatic, evangelical, what?

Tim: Imagine on a standard whatever kind of church it is a Sunday morning and the pastors saying something whatever in his message and it hits you. And it doesn’t have to hit you wrong but it hits you and you have some sort of revelation on it and what if you just stood up and said “Wait a minute I have something to say about that I’ve got an idea about that.” Just imagine how that would work in your Sunday morning service. I think you would find out what the term usher means as they usher you out of the room. (Laughing)

Sid: (Laughing) Tell me some of the other differences, for instance let’s look at it this way a pastor recognizes this problem in a traditional style church and they start house groups and these are small and so it seems to me that will accomplish the same thing and yet you say no.

Tim: The issue is back to a matter of control, and I had to learn this as a recovering pastor I had to learn how to let people do what they wanted to do, let people share out of their heart and not always tell them the right answer. Come in and be the strong arm and take control of the gathering.

Sid: But aren’t you afraid of wild fire?

Tim: Absolutely I think a little wild fire once in a while cleans the forest out. There’s all sorts of dangers that people can focus on.

Sid: You know what I like to say?

Tim: What?

Sid: I like to say in most churches there’s no fire; oh God give me some.

Katie: Well, Tim’s always said “I’d rather be a fireman than an undertaker so.”

Tim: I’d rather be in a fire, yeah because the issue is it would be…it would be good to have a little fun have a little tension or something.

Sid: So what is your preparation for your meeting?

Tim: My preparation is life, the issue is that we don’t even use the term meeting anymore we use…

Sid: What do you use?

Tim: We just “You want to come over to our house we just invite friends.

Katie: We’re getting together.

Tim: Come on over we’re going to eat because as you start putting these tags on it then people have expectation, people have their paradigms of what it’s going to be what it needs to be and if you say this is a meeting, if you line up chairs the little things that don’t seem important. If you line up chairs; I have one friend who when he first got into the house church he built himself a pulpit that he had put up in his living room and every time they met and he spoke to them because it’s in our DNA the institution. And so we just decide whatever the institution, however the institution would do it let’s do it differently. And making room, getting out of the way, getting our agenda out of the way and letting the Holy Spirit show up and let Him do what He wants to do. Sometimes the meeting will be about one person. In the institution generally the meeting was about me and what I had to say as a pastor.

Sid: My guest is so red hot for the Messiah that I understand that she prays with a group of teenager’s every morning at 5:30 am. Now most singers I know Karen Wheaton don’t want to talk to anyone at 5:30 in the morning they would rather do this at night. How do you manage to pray at 5:30 am with these teenagers?

Karen: Well, it was an amazing experience when the Holy Spirit called me to work with young people and much to my surprise actually. At the end of 1998 when He called me back to my home town in Hamilton, Alabama. I had been in the ministry for over twenty years by myself and I come back to my home town of 6,000 people in the middle of nowhere and the Lord spot lights to me the youth of my city. Sitting on the hood of their cars in the wee hours of the morning purposeless and unaware of the real God. And He speaks to me Sid and He says “I want you to work with the youth of this community.” Well, I explained to God why I was not the best choice to work with young people. I was too old, not cool and way too busy in the ministry. And Sid He gave me one statement that He knew would get me, “But what you invest in the lives of other young people you would reap in your own children.” So with two teenage daughters I took Him up on that offer.

Sid: Now tell me the first, the first young people you spoke to to get involved with tell me what that was like?

Karen: It was about 7 young people in the back of a storefront church that my sister and her husband pastored. We were in the back of that building on a Wednesday night and I went to just sort of help out I didn’t really know what God had in mind I just thought I’ll help with what I can. And with 7 kids I began to teach them that #1 there’s a real God who will come if you seek Him. And #2 He has a reason for you breathing, there’s a reason that you’re on the earth. He has a purpose for your life and if you worship Him, you seek Him He will come and when He comes He will speak to your heart and you’ll understand why you’re living. That’s what they did and they sought Him and He did not disappoint them He came. And when He came those kids became addicted to His presence and Sid what you’re talking about about the 5:30 in the morning prayer meeting, that began at the end of 1998-99 when those kids came to me. High school kids at the time and said “Miss Karen we want to pray from 5:30 to 6:30 in the morning before school starts would you come with us.” So sometimes in the dark the sun had not even come up yet I would pull up in that parking lot and I would sometimes I’d be coming up from a road trip tired and 5:30 I would pull up and you got a whole group now 7 kids turns to 30 kids. They’re sitting on the sidewalk waiting for me to open the door. There were times we prayed in those early mornings His presence so thick it was indescribable, those kids prayed for God to send young people to Hamilton from the North, the South, the East and the West and Sid 30 kids has turned to 100’s of 1000’s of kids that have come now from around the world just like they asked God for.

Sid: I want them to hear one of the songs from the CD’s we’re featuring a song that I love the title “Lord You’re Holy.” What does that song mean to you?

Karen: I love to worship Him because I love to see Him and whenever we worship Him we see who He is. Years ago as a young girl I said to the Lord, “Lord what is it about praise that it’s so important that You command that we praise You?” As a young girl I said “Lord, does praise have an effect on You? Does praise change You somehow? Do You need to hear us praise You and worship You?” I said “I’ll do it because You command it but why, why do You want us to praise You is it to change on You?” And God spoke to me and He said “Karen nothing changes me, I’m the same yesterday, today, and forever, but praise changes you.” When we worship Him we see Him and when we see Him we are changed forever.

Sid: Let’s worship with Karen Wheaton “Lord You’re Holy.” Something happened to Karen when she was just devastated by the things of life and the compassion of the Messiah is literally poured out when she worships but I have to tell you something else. When I listen to her worship many of her songs it makes me happy, it just gives me joy, it’s so infectious.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to just do two simple things; hear God’s voice for yourself and be obedient. But there’s so many voices out there; there’s a voice of reason; there’s a voice of logic; there’s a voice of people prophesying to you; there’s a voice of there’s a need so let’s just fulfill that need. What about my sheep hear my voice? I don’t want to settle for anything short of that. And in 2005 Dr. Gary Whetstone had an open vision in Israel; and he saw history. And he saw people marching throughout all of history and accomplishing their lifetime. And some built cities, some built major, major ministries and he saw the fire burning them up and I don’t want to be like that and he doesn’t want be like that. In this open vision Gary you saw yourself and what did God tell you?

Gary: Awe Sid, the real of that vision was I had just finished watching people that I knew being affected by other voices and then going forward and I saw God revealing some were going to fall and everything they built on the earth destroyed. And I’m watching this with a terror of reality and seeing that which leaders are losing and the fire that will consume what they built. And then the next thing I’m watching this with aghast because I know these men; I watch my life. And I’m in this open vision; I standing looking at the eastern wall of the Old City, but I am in a revelation of God completely encapsulating my life. I’m watching now my life when God spoke to me to stand for my marriage and God restored my marriage after divorce. I watched God say when I gave up industrial engineering it went on the back on the assembly process at a corporation and speaking to me “No me, hear me; do what I say.” And that’s all I gave myself to and watch God speak to me; I began businesses out of that obedience and they raised up to tremendous growth. And then God spoke to me to sell them, walk out; I watched God speaking to me and me obeying Him and going on the mission field in Indonesia a major Muslim country and obeying what God spoke. And I’m watching God speak and speak and speak and speak and speak. Then I watched my life listening to other people for the purpose of success; plans that were implemented; ways that were brought in; things that I had adopted in ministry; activities that I brought into the church; into our world mission organization; into the Bible Colleges that we opened up around the world. Things we did and I heard God say to me it was like all of a sudden I’m standing before the Voice of God and He says to me; “If you do not hear My Voice, I will take the candlestick out of its place and that will blow out its light.”

Sid: Now, what does that mean?

Gary: That means the church, that means everything that God has given to me to build and establish in His Name on this earth He has no problem removing everything that I’ve given my life to serve Him to see remove it from its place on the earth and take out even that which I call “The Life of God” because it wasn’t Him. The fear of God shock me to the core of my being. I realized yes I do hear the Voice of God, yes I have heard the voice of God; but I can’t but hear continuously the voice of God today while it is called today. And every day we live is today, I can’t rest on I heard God five years ago, I can’t rest on I heard God last Sunday, I must know I’m hearing God now. If God is offering His life in me; if His life is not mine but His life in me. The church is not mine, it’s His church; if the life of the church is not what I say it’s what He says, it’s who He is. I mean the whole of my life just was clear and I mean Sid I was broken. I was so broken by this reality that every department I went through and shut down every department; I sold everything that was involved with it; I had nothing to do with God’s plan. I mean we just went like a radical severance of everything I could identify…

Sid: Just out of curiosity your wife is co-Pastor with you did she go along with all of this?

Gary: You know Faye has found one thing to be true in God with me and that is if God has spoken it there is nothing going to stop the God who’s spoken it. That’s where we were. She had absolute harmony total agreement and complete commitment to everything God was speaking because she knows this life is not made up of what we accomplish. It’s not made up of what I believe God for, it’s made up of the nature of Christ in me and what He says to do through me; nothing else matters.

Sid: Alright without revealing names you saw people that you recognized that had great ministries and you saw some of them burning up with fire. Could I ask you because you did this off the air and I didn’t ask you if you’d do it on the air without revealing who could you tell me someone who you actually saw in the vision and you went to and you told them what you saw and how they reacted?

Gary: I went to this one ministry and I would say without a question everyone that’s in your program knows this person. I said to them this is what I experienced in God and I watched your life and what God showed me is that you walk in the anointing and power of His grace to accomplish these specific things. But these areas I want to ask you did God say this to you? And his response to me was this, “Gary, if I could do it all over again I would never have my finances come in the way they come in.” I said “Wait a minute you can change this.” He said, “It’s too late in my life the engine is too big that I have created and the way that it is funded is just going to have to continue because I have trained people to give this way.”

Sid: But what good is it if it’s going to burn with fire, so what?

Gary: Beautification that was what I shared.

Sid: You just closed… if God were to tell me today that what he’s built through me was going to burn in fire before the day over I’d start closing it down.

Gary: That was my concern; but the real is the anointing is so powerful in this man’s life. The miracles, the demonstration of God is evident but the financial means where with things are done is not authored by God.

Sid: I’ll tell you what I’m not a prophet but I’m going to prophesy in my opinion with what’s going on in the world the ones that are going to burn with fire are probably going to go under for financial reasons even before they burn with fire; that aren’t called by God.

Gary: I mean it’s happening the destruction, the manipulation; all the things that have occurred in Christendom to allure people with deceptive practices with just error like “You give $100 you get $1,000 back. You give a $1,000 this is a prophecy of God to bring deliverance in your life. The means of merchandising and the deception that it is there and the heinous acts of the enemy that men and women are espousing as God. And the leadership that is affecting people is a deceptive lie; that is what is going forward and completely being consumed. It wasn’t their works consumed it was everyone that was involved in the work was consumed. It’s everything they did was consumed.

Sid: Okay, let me take you down to a Christian housewife that’s listening to us today. Her children are a mess, her marriage is a mess, how would this help her?

Gary: Sid, God is the answer He said to the believing spouse “You’re unbelieving spouse is sanctified; otherwise your children would be unclean.” One believer is sufficient for a supernatural visitation of God’s power to deliver the whole house. That means the curse that is on the children where they’ve been given away for another for destruction God has supernaturally empowered that one individual with the nature of Christ and the hearing ear of the voice of God and they will do what God’s doing and they will deliver that house.

Sid: And what about the person that has just lost their job, and they don’t know what they’re going to do and jobs are not easy to come by; how would hearing God’s voice make a difference to them?

Gary: Awe Sid the people that are in derision and mental duress under the sense of loss, loss of a house, loss of a job, loss of their cars, repossession; all the things that have such a voice that tries to bring identity and significance and value and esteem and prestige and stability in life are nothing in God. God is capable to take a prophet when the brook dries up, when the food of the raven stops coming to feed him and send him to a widow who is poorer than him and bring the miracle of provision. God’s voice if he followed the voice of man he would never found the provision of God. But because he followed the voice of God he found all provision and the barrel of meal didn’t waste and the cruse of oil did not fail. That’s the voice of God to everyone today listening; that is hearing distress, destruction, loss, lack. God is speaking “I have the way out;” He’s speaking to you right now. Today Hear His Voice is a course that will move you to hear clearly and take action. I know what God’s doing; it’s a set up Sid.

Sid: I believe that, I believe that everyone that is listening to us right now if they’re a true believer they’re saying “I’ve got to hear God’s voice; I have to find out… I mean this is out of my control.” And you are a blessed person when it’s out of your control; that means you’re ready to hear God’s voice.

Sid: Getting ready for a visitation from Heaven, that’s what my guest says his name is Shawn Bolz. I just got a hold, supernaturally I believe, of his brand new book just off the press it’s called “Keys to Heaven’s Economy, an Angelic Visitation from the Minister of Finance.” And in your book you say that this is God’s moment for many people to have open Heavens explain.

Shawn: Well, I believe that God wants to put the motivation and motivator back into Christianity being with Jesus where He is that that’s our primary goal is to be with Jesus for all eternity for where He is. And I think He wants to provoke us to that by revealing what Heaven’s like now. And He wants to provoke the world to see how good He is by showing them a glimpse of Heaven. in Heaven there’s no lack, there’s no divorce there is no need for healing there is no depression. He wants to bring environments on the earth that look like Heaven and feel like Heaven as a foretaste of what we’re going to experience.

Sid: And you know many people they hear that description of Heaven and they say “Ah, I don’t want to be here.” But what you’re saying is we’re here for a purpose to bring a little Heaven on earth, is that what you’re saying?

Shawn: Absolutely.

Sid: Okay we want… there’s so many areas you deal with in your book we can just touch on some of them. One that I was especially integrated in has to do with money because to be candid with you I see so much on quote Christian television about how we can get money, or how we can get things and how easy it is and it’s sort of taken a shift away from the Biblical concepts to greed. Explain your take in your book because I love what you said.

Shawn: Well, my whole perspective is that God is releasing resource so that we can be extravagant source of blessing to His purpose and to the people on the earth. And the whole concept is that we’re going to be a people who understands that everything that we have is ours, the 10% model is a training model for people, but everything that we have is God’s, none of it is ours all that is His. And so He may require anything that I have in my possession or that I have in my life for His glory. And that there’s a generous heart in God towards us to steward with Him and that He enjoyed creating the world, He enjoyed stewarding his resources; He enjoyed stewardship of you know putting the plants where He put them and putting the water where He put it. And we’re supposed to enjoy stewarding our resources as well. Sometimes the way that it’s set up in the church is that there is a self-motivation with the money. But the only way that He can entrust us with great resources that actually brings Kingdom fruit is that there would be an unselfish motive in it.

Sid: Well, how does someone know what their motive is selfish or unselfish?

Shawn: I think part of it is how much fruit are you bearing with your resource I think that so many people are really good at giving to organizations which is a blessing and their good at helping to support people’s visions and they are good at giving their 10% and maybe a few gifts to the poor. But there is another aspect of it where money creates position, money creates authority and money creates…

Sid: A platform.

Shawn: And God is about to show people how to use their finances to create position platform ministry functions for all kinds of different spheres of influence and it’s not just give your money to the church which are two very important issues but it’s also give your money away that would create a platform for Jesus to stand upon. Maybe you’re standing there for Him as face and voice to be able to speak into the issues that are unresolved in our culture and our society. But also other cultures and societies; I believe this message translates to the poorest parts of Ethiopia, I believe that God wants to bring a resource and wants to show people and train people in Kingdom values with whatever they’re stewarding whether it’s a little of a lot. And that there would be an extravagant heart that you can’t out give Him when your serving His purpose He will always bring a source of provision that will continue. Even in the day of tribulation, so to speak, that the Christians are made for tribulations days; Christians are made for the day of adversity to succeed and thrive, if we’re serving His purpose.

Sid: Where does humility fit into this?

Shawn: I think there is a place that when you know that everything that you have is His and you understand that He is going to require some of the greatest resources you have. That He’s is going to say “Sew, sew these ones into this.” There is a place that it doesn’t matter if your rich or your poor or if you’re in need or your in plenty, that there is a place where Paul said “Where he counts it all loss anyways” and that just to know Jesus He just wants to know and fellowship with Jesus and His nature.

Sid: But it’s more difficult for someone that has a great deal of money then for someone that can’t put two nickels together.

Shawn: I agree that God has been training a number of people, and when I say number I think that it’s thousands and thousands of people in rich countries. I think that He’s been training them to understand the selfishness in the inherent societies. I think that it doesn’t…

Sid: Especially this country the United States of America.

Shawn: And I think that when you understand the selfishness and it doesn’t make you want to become poor it makes you want to actually thrive more so that you can begin to change the face of what’s going on. Like you have Bono who’s a singer in a group U-2, and he’s taken his place that he’s learned from the selfish world and he’s looking at world hunger. He’s saying “Our generation can cure world hunger if we just get the right education; it’s not just about finances it’s not starting a campaign about finances it’s starting a campaign about education understanding.” So he’s using his voice, his name and his fame to cure world hunger right now and that’s his whole goal, his whole life mission is to work with humanitarian efforts. I believe that many people are starting to see they’re being influenced by something that’s in our generation of the selfishness, the greed, all of those things. They’re saying “We want to do something, it’s not that we want to decrease in what we do we want to do what we do well, but we want to do it for the purpose to influence the difference the change, be agents of change for this.”

Sid: And we’re finding that this generation of young people it’s different than the previous generation; this is the heart of young people right now.

Shawn: Absolutely I think that there’s something inherent that’s saying we hate injustice. When you deal with injustice you deal with the poor, you deal with the sick, you deal with the brokenness in our society of marriage. You deal with the brokenness of what is a man, what is a woman and I think our society is calling out, crying out we need justice.

Sid: And not just our society that must be the heart of God right now.

Shawn: Absolutely.

Sid: How does God have so much love and patience with all the sins we have in America?

Shawn: (Laughing) I can’t answer that question.

Sid: But I’m glad that He does. Now in your chapter and we touched on it a little bit Chapter 10 called “Extravagant giving.” You were at a conference in Canada when the Minister of Finance came to visit you. Tell us some of the things he revealed to you, especially here’s a quote “The Holy Spirit is going to lead the church to give in ways that are impossible according to human nature.” What do you mean?

Shawn: Well, I think it goes back to Macedonia example that I quoted earlier in there where the Macedonians gave to Paul and he explained about their generosity they gave beyond their means of giving because they understood that God would provide for them. I think that there is going to be people who the normal human nature is not equipped to give in a sacrificial way where it actually costs and could potentially be there downfall, could potentially ruin their lives. I’m not talking about giving to big offerings that would just support one ministry; not that that’s a bad thing. I’m talking about a gift that gets so motivated by the love of God not just emotions or impulse that says “I must make the sacrifice because it’s demanding everybody because he wants to trust me with his nature and His nature is so against my nature that sometimes He requires us to choose His nature above anything else. And I believe that there’s something that’s foreign to the western world we give in a humanistic way, and He’s teaching us how to give in a Kingdom mindset that our source of God or our resources belong to Heaven first therefore our lack is His lack and our gain is His gain. It delivers us from a fear that’s resource based into a place where it’s relationship based. So people are going to give based on their relationship they have with Heaven not based on the resources that they have available to them.

Sid: And I have to, help me out here, but I have to believe that our motivation to give is to get there’s something wrong in this picture. Shouldn’t the motivation be “God I love You there’s nothing more important than to give into your kingdom!”

Shawn: Absolutely, I think that there’s a good part of the American dream I’ll use America as an example which is you can have big dreams here and succeed in a great way and that’s a beautiful part of America, but the bad part of America is that American dream has become a place of having you know resources that’s selfish in motive in having 2.5 kids and 2 cars and the big house, and maybe another house just as a vacation place. And it all centers around our own selfish motives to gain something to have security in our possessions and we obvious know from all the world disasters that have happened there’s no sure security in our own possessions. And so there’s a place where God is putting inside a generation of people the desire to change and have an identity in Heaven and in Heaven’s economy not in earth’s economy.

Sid: And that I think is an important point you just made we have to have a shift from looking at the earth’s economy to Heaven’s economy.

Shawn: Absolutely.

Sid: To looking at it from God’s perspective and not our humanistic perspective what about what were you shown about supernatural favor?

Shawn: Well I believe that’s been one of my… the last couple of years I have been spending time on it, and I know I wrote a little in the book. I believe that as we give first of all to the poor Isaiah 58 is real clear as we give to the poor His light shines upon us in an increased way. So I believe that accelerates our on calling our own destiny what we’ve been given from God to partner with Jesus I believe that as we give to the poor that it accelerates us because it’s selfless and there’s no glory in it, it only brings God glory.

Sid: And you also mentioned the second area was Israel.

Shawn: Israel as we give as the church understands the call of God on His redemptive people of Israel and the begin to sow into the Kingdom efforts of what’s God’s doing there I believe the day of the Lord accelerates. And I believe that that’s also clear through scripture that the Kingdom world starts to understand God’s promise and Covenants over Israel and begins to not just add finances but actually resources with man-hours resources with understanding and education and giving themselves as a sacrifice is the way to Israel that it accelerates the day of Jesus coming forth.