If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Another great reason to leave California!

California will NOW enforce 'micro-stamping' gun law.

SAN FRANCISCO — A hotly contested California gun-control law that was passed in 2007 is finally ready to be implemented, Attorney General Kamala Harris said this week: a requirement that every new semiautomatic handgun contain "micro-stamping" technology that would allow police to trace a weapon from cartridges found at a crime scene.

The law, signed by then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, made California the first state to require micro-stamping, which engraves the gun's serial number on each cartridge. But the legislation specified that it would take effect only when the technology was available and all private patents had expired.

Gun owners group Calguns Foundation tried to forestall the law at one point by paying a $555 fee in an attempt to extend a patent held by the inventor, who wanted it to lapse. Gun manufacturers said the technology was expensive and ineffective, and a National Rifle Association lawyer has threatened a lawsuit.

But at a Los Angeles news conference Friday, Harris announced that micro-stamping had cleared all technological and patenting hurdles and would be required on newly sold semiautomatics, effective immediately.

"The patents have been cleared, which means that this very important technology will help us as law enforcement in identifying and locating people who have illegally used firearms," Harris said.

Attorney Benjamin Van Houten of the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence said the announcement
should send a message to other states, the Obama administration and the gun industry that "this is the future and it's really critical to helping law enforcement solve gun crimes."

.D. Michel, the NRA's West Coast regional attorney, had a much grimmer prediction.

"This is not going to help solve crimes," he said. "It's easily defeated, easily wears out and can be used to lead police down false alleys" if the serial numbers are altered.

Worse yet, Michel said, manufacturers will be unwilling to add this expensive feature to guns sold in a single state, and will instead keep manufacturing weapons for the other states, where demand already far exceeds supply. The effect, he said, would be a ban on new semiautomatic handguns in California, which the NRA will challenge in court.

Van Houten, in response, said, "The gun lobby makes wild claims about the impact on the California gun market" every time the state enacts a new gun-safety requirement.

The technology was invented in the 1990s by Todd Lizotte, an engineer and NRA member, who has said for more than a year that he no longer claimed patent rights and wanted California to implement micro-stamping.

-I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
-Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. Marine General James Mattis,

Getting a patent does not mean the patented thing actually works ... it has been shown to be useless ... ever hear of a brass catcher-duh (another easy way to get around it?

Its retarded and only meant to increase costs ~~ manufacturers will tell CA (that already requires drop testing of products) to piss off.

CA cannot require manufacturers to modify their products and such a demand likely infringes.

I myself would microstamp all my ammo with other information ... like "if are are reading this, you are a dickhead" ...

Well the problem is that CA can restrict any and all new handguns with this requirement, also I can't not see a single gun company making any effort to retool their machines to comply. It is a round about way for them to ban even more firearms, liberals are not so stupid to think this would ever work. Also why should any gun company comply, they have such huge orders from so many other states, they are not going to make those wait times any longer to try and comply with the law. They will simple refuse to sell any of their guns to CA.

-I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
-Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. Marine General James Mattis,

Well the problem is that CA can restrict any and all new handguns with this requirement, also I can't not see a single gun company making any effort to retool their machines to comply. It is a round about way for them to ban even more firearms, liberals are not so stupid to think this would ever work. Also why should any gun company comply, they have such huge orders from so many other states, they are not going to make those wait times any longer to try and comply with the law. They will simple refuse to sell any of their guns to CA.

With the CA drop testing requirement (costing only the cost of drop testing which is not great) some have tested & some say "forget it" I imagine.

This require would cost a ton in tooling ... and likely require further drop testing as well.

Re: Another great reason to leave California!

With the CA drop testing requirement (costing only the cost of drop testing which is not great) some have tested & some say "forget it" I imagine.

This require would cost a ton in tooling ... and likely require further drop testing as well.

The government should keep its nose out of gun design ....

That's the whole point! They are trying to keep guns out of commie-fornia by making it too difficult for gun manufactures to sell their products there. Just another end-around by people who swore an oath to defend the the constitution (all of it) not just the parts they like. cock-roaches all of them need a pointed boot and a corner encounter.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

Why any Liberty-loving person would continue to live in California is beyond me. Move. Vote with your feet.

God knows, Liberty will never win at the ballot box in that State. Too many of the people in California have permanently traded their essential Liberty for some non-existant security.

So I have zero sympathy for California's plight, or the plight of any individual who chooses to stay.

I left Kalifornia 22 years ago because I could not stand it then, I can only imagine what it is like living there now. I have one consulting client left in Kalifornia and when they are finally done with me in the next year or so I will no longer go to Kalifornia or do business there until the end of my days. When I have to go there I spend as little money as possible, low end hotel, I fill up at the border and only buy enough fuel to get back to the border. I take some food with me to eat in the hotel room rather than spend money at a restaurant. Its not about being cheap I can afford to eat anywhere I desire, it is about not supporting Kalifornia any more than I absolutely have to. I made up my mind several years ago that supporting the State of Kalifornia in any way even indirectly was against my best interests. I wish more people would join me.

I left Kalifornia 22 years ago because I could not stand it then, I can only imagine what it is like living there now. I have one consulting client left in Kalifornia and when they are finally done with me in the next year or so I will no longer go to Kalifornia or do business there until the end of my days. When I have to go there I spend as little money as possible, low end hotel, I fill up at the border and only buy enough fuel to get back to the border. I take some food with me to eat in the hotel room rather than spend money at a restaurant. Its not about being cheap I can afford to eat anywhere I desire, it is about not supporting Kalifornia any more than I absolutely have to. I made up my mind several years ago that supporting the State of Kalifornia in any way even indirectly was against my best interests. I wish more people would join me.

I made up my mind several years ago that supporting the State of Kalifornia in any way even indirectly was against my best interests. I wish more people would join me.

I never voluntarily travel to any state which doesn't recognize my Alaska concealed firearm permit. As a military officer, I'm sometimes compelled to do so, but I limit my spending and my time in the state as much as possible.

Why any Liberty-loving person would continue to live in California is beyond me. Move. Vote with your feet.

God knows, Liberty will never win at the ballot box in that State. Too many of the people in California have permanently traded their essential Liberty for some non-existant security.

So I have zero sympathy for California's plight, or the plight of any individual who chooses to stay.

The only problem with this is recent history has shown that the ones that do move to states such as Arizona, for some reason unbeknownst to any intelligent person, attempt at some point to remake Arizona into California. We have seen this take place in Florida (in fact a common term is, "Don't Florida ____" [some other Southern state]). So even though some of these people may claim to seek freedom from California's oppressive state government, I wouldn't trust them to leave all of their baggage at the border. We have that here with New Englanders coming into Virginia. Don't need that mindset here in the South and I bet California's border states don't need it either (except maybe Oregon).

Last edited by SouthernBoy; 05-31-2013 at 04:19 PM.

In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

Another great reason to leave California!

And when I get removed from the military for turning down orders or going AWOL for refusing to go into the state I'll expect you to pay the costs to help financially take care of me and my family.

I will amend my statement. Military folk who have been stationed in California have my sympathies. As do military folk stationed in England. They have much less choice in the matter.

Fortunately, for my entire 20 years, my stateside assignments were all relatively Liberty-loving States. My one overseas assignment was the People's Republic of Denmark. However, the Danish ladies were well worth any other sacrifices.

To properly quote Franklin: Those who would trade essential Liberty for temporary security deserve neither, unless some gorgeous blondes are thrown in for good measure.

Some poor soul came in today to buy his 10-round magazines for his assignment to CA. *sigh*

Another great reason to leave California!

Originally Posted by SouthernBoy

The only problem with this is recent history has shown that the ones that do move to states such as Arizona, for some reason unbeknownst to any intelligent person, attempt at some point to remake Arizona into California. We have seen this take place in Florida (in fact a common term is, "Don't Florida ____" [some other Southern state]). So even though some of these people may claim to seek freedom from California's oppressive state government, I wouldn't trust them to leave all of their baggage at the border. We have that here with New Englanders coming into Virginia. Don't need that mindset here in the South and I bet California's border states don't need it either (except maybe Oregon).

Florida, at least the peninsula, is a small town in southern NY!

But, point taken. No State should accept immigrants from CA, NY, IL, MA, etc. until they have graduated from a reeducation camp!

Re: Another great reason to leave California!

But, point taken. No State should accept immigrants from CA, NY, IL, MA, etc. until they have graduated from a reeducation camp!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

I can only speak to my experience with the people in the northern suburbs of Phoenix AZ. So far this appears to be an accurate view of the situation on the ground here... and for large chunks of Tucson also.

Many of these "transplants" carry with them the seeds of BIG BROTHER planted in their "home" dictatorships.

Last edited by FreeInAZ; 06-01-2013 at 12:39 PM.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

Another great reason to leave California!

The majority of Californias problems are due to illegal aliens flooding the state.

About 85% of these new voters vote democrat.

A poll by Pew showed that less than 10% held values consistent with the founding fathers of America.

California is NOT to blame for its illegal alien problem. That's a federal issue and ALL states are to blame for that.

Don't worry, its coming to YOUR state soon enough.

I don't know if their problems can be all laid at the feet of illegal aliens, but CA is not blameless for the influx of illegals. CA law incentivizes being an illegal alien. Hell, some of their cities are flat inviting the law-breakers.

2) I'm not in the Army and as such I don't have to eat their chow. Though I did eat at their chow hall a few times in the desert and it wasn't too bad compared to the TCN prepared food at most other chow halls on base.

Maybe it's because I'm a big picture kinda gal, but this talk of leaving Califorina or New York, or any state for it's gun control, well, thats like saying lets hand over parts of our nation to our worst enemy nation. There was a time when people would fight over every square inch of ground in one way or another. These states are part of our nation and weren't easy to come by. Giving them up so easally over a law seems to me foolish. If anything, more pro gun, and those gun culture people should move to California to make some kind of stand.

I've seen it for years, people tell me they have to move because their neighborhood is going downhill crimewise. Houses being broken into, vandalism, ect. But if those aren't willing to put in the work to keep their neighborhood safe, then no where they move will be a good neighborhood for very long. If they are willing to put in the work, any bad neighborhood can be made into a good one. I'm a big fan of those buying houses cheap in the worst neighborhoods and making the it a better place to live. It's a win / win situation. The states atre no diffrent, only our law makers, and government officals are the bad element. They should be hit from all sides both within, and outside the system. If we fight them on their battelfield alone, staying within their system, we will certainly lose.

In califorina we need people good at challenging them in the courts, and media, but we also need those good at civil disobedence, breaking laws. If everyone follows unjust laws, it only endorses them, makes it harder to repeal them.

I do agree with you here. Only problem is, I'm not willing to sacrifice my liberty for this fight. I wish more folks would, but it's hard to blame those who don't.

Maybe it's because I'm a big picture kinda gal, but this talk of leaving Califorina or New York, or any state for it's gun control, well, thats like saying lets hand over parts of our nation to our worst enemy nation...

We are not a "nation." The Framers deliberately set up a federation of States. The beauty of this is that the People have the most ironic of freedoms, the freedom to choose varying levels of governmental imposition. Some folks actually want their lives run by the government. Let them have it!

If you believe in personal Liberty, freedom from governmental interference, vote with your feet.

If everyone did this, the exact opposite of what you say would happen. The nanny States would collapse under the weight of all the infants moving there and the adults moving out. The States that uphold Liberty and thereby provide natural rewards for responsible adulthood will flourish. Hopefully, the nanny States would figure out the errors of their ways and change. But who cares if they don't??? Just don't live there. Let them fall into ruin.