Should Christians Experience the Supernatural?

The February 2007 issue of Charisma magazine (pictured here) featured an article by Patricia King, titled “Living in the Throne Room. King (a “prophet” in the apostolic-prophetic movement and founder of Extreme Prophetic Television in Canada) argues that supernatural experiences — like seeing the Lord on His throne, being visited by angels, or being transported from one geographical location to another by the Holy Spirit — should be a “normal part of a believer’s experience.”

This, of course, is a big claim. If such experiences should be a normal part of the Christian’s life, then many of us — myself included — are falling far short. Yet, this teaching is common in the apostolic-prophetic movement. So, I think it’s important to consider it. After reading King’s article, I found at least five key errors in her reasoning.
Error 1: She equates these types of experiences with God’s love

The first major error King (pictured here) makes is she claims that these types of supernatural experiences should be ours because God loves us.

She starts off this argument with a correct statement. She says that an intimate relationship with God, like a marriage relationship, should include experience of His love for us. I agree. In the Bible, we see that God’s people not only had sound doctrinal knowledge about Him, but they also had a loving relationship with Him. King David’s psalms express great depth of feeling and experience with God. Unfortunately, some Christians today stress the importance of doctrine, but they undervalue the roles of experience and emotions in our relationship with God.

So, King starts off correct. But then she makes a huge logical leap. She argues that experiencing God’s love includes experiencing the wonders of the heavenly realm, here and now — including God’s throne, angels and golden streets. She says that because God loves us, “we have been invited to discover and partake of it all.”

But King can’t support this teaching from Scripture. True, the church is called the “bride of Christ.” But we’re currently betrothed to Christ. The marriage — though certain — won’t take place until He returns for us and takes us to our new home with Him in heaven. Until then, we can’t expect to experience the wonders of our heavenly home.

I’m afraid many Christians may be burdened in their relationship to God because of King’s mistaken teaching. When they don’t have the supernatural experiences she speaks of, then they may feel disheartened that God doesn’t love them or that they’re not pleasing Him. But, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christians should expect to see heavenly scenes or experience such overtly supernatural occurences during their earthly lives.
Error 2: Her main biblical support is a passage that she quotes out of its context

In her article, King says: “Not only are we to seek Jesus, but we are to actually seek the things of the kingdom — the things of the unseen realm” (emphasis hers). To make her point, she quotes Colossians 3:1-2, where Paul urges the Colossians to “set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.”

King’s argument hinges on this Scripture passage. But, when you read it carefully, in context, you may see that the “things above” do not refer to angels or throne room scenes. In fact, far from it — just six verses before this verse — Paul warns the Colossians about false teachers who were promoting angel worship and who were claiming to be spiritually superior because of visions they received. Colossians 2:18

The “things above” that Paul told Christians to focus on are the truths that (1) we have died to our old sinful nature, and (2) we have been resurrected to new life with Christ, which will be fully revealed at Christ’s second coming. As a result of these truths, we should no longer engage in the sinful things listed in verses 5-9, but we should do the holy things listed in verses 12 through chapter 4 verse 6.

So, the passage does not tell Christians to seek supernatural encounters — as King claims it does.
Error 3: These types of supernatural experiences were never sought in the Bible

King also fails to recognize that, in the Bible, God’s people never sought after these types of supernatural experiences.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I can’t think of one instance where we have an indication that the prophets, apostles or evangelists sought out the amazing, otherworldly experiences they had. Instead, these experiences happened to them when they least expected it. Phillip was suddenly visited by an angel who told him where to go. Phillip didn’t seem to know that he was being directed to the right place at the right time to share the gospel with an Ethiopian eunuch. As soon as he finished baptizing the eunuch, Phillip found himself whisked away to another location. The angels who visited Abraham, Mary and the apostle John all showed up — seemingly unexpected. And the list goes on.

Error 4: These types of experiences weren’t typical in the Bible

King also misrepresents these types of supernatural experiences as normal occurrences in the Bible.

Yes, there are many miracles in the Bible. Yet, for the patriarchs, prophets and apostles who experienced them, they weren’t typical occurrences in their lives. Whenever Paul spoke of his Damascus Road encounter with God, for example, he always spoke of it with amazement. He didn’t treat it like it was no big deal — just another, run-of-the-mill supernatural experience.

Error 5: Supernatural experiences aren’t always from God

King, rightly, warns her readers that not all supernatural experiences are from God. Her article includes a 2/3-page sidebar, titled “Avoiding Spiritual Pitfalls,” that seeks to warn people of dangers they might encounter in the “invisible realm.” It’s good that she warns her readers of the reality of such dangers and advises them to test all their spiritual encounters by the Bible.

Although these warnings are great, I’m afraid King isn’t heeding them herself. Her Extreme Prophetic Web site and television program promote troubling “prophets” like Todd Bentley. Bentley claims to have supernatural encounters all the time. He says: “Never more than a few days go by that I don’t encounter third heaven and some kind of prophetic experience — at times it happens daily for months. Supernatural experiences have become part of daily Christianity for me.”

• Claiming that he was the angel in Revelation 3:14 and 10:7
• Claiming he was Elijah, who would precede Christ’s return
• Denying the Trinity and calling it a satanic doctrine
• Teaching that Eve had sexual intercourse with the serpent, producing human beings who are destined for hell, which is only a temporal place. But those who receive God’s seed (Branham’s teaching) are the “Bride of Christ”
• Saying that anyone who was a member of any denomination had taken the “mark of the beast”

• Giving a number of false prophecies about the end of the world
• Teaching that the Word of God had been given in two other forms besides the Bible: the zodiac and the Egyptian pyramids
• Some of his followers thought he was God or had been virgin born and, when he died in 1965, they believed he would be resurrected.
• Many of Branham’s critics believe he genuinely had a supernatural gift of healing, but that it wasn’t from God since he promoted heretical teachings

Bentley claims that, whenever Branham’s angel shows up at one of Bentley’s meetings, he gets a supernatural ability in his left hand to diagnose people’s sicknesses, and he also gets correct words of knowledge about details from their lives — just as Branham claimed. In the same article I linked to above, Bentley also talks about another troublesome “angel” named Emma, who I will address in a future post.

How can King claim to practice discernment in the spiritual realm, yet promote “prophets” like Bentley? This should alarm King’s followers.

Important Qualification
So, should we experience the supernatural regularly? My quick answer is “yes.” This may surprise you, given my above response to King’s article. But, it’s all in how you classify the supernatural. If, by supernatural, one means that we should talk with angels and take trips to heaven, then the answer — according to the biblical evidence — is no.

Yet, the Christian life is a supernatural life. First, our new birth is a major miracle — through it, we are convicted of and washed of our sins, we receive eternal life, and we are indwelled by God’s Holy Spirit who starts the work of conforming us to Christ’s image. After this initial miracle, our lives as Christians should continue to be characterized by the supernatural. Here are many types of supernatural works that Christians should consistently seek and see in their daily lives:

I discovered your blog via a Web search. I am astounded and appalled at your erroneous conclusions regarding Patricia King and Todd Bentley’s ministries. I have seen Todd live with my own eyes preach and perform miracles, and I have read one of Patricia’s books and watched many of her videos online, and I’ve been a solid, Biblical evangelical for nearly twenty years now.

I haven’t yet seen or heard Patricia or Todd talk about anything that isn’t rooted in Biblical authority and aligns with what we read about in Scripture. Your refutation of Patricia’s article in Charisma magazine (which I recently read) doesn’t match what we actually see in the Bible, which is Jesus promising His disciples that Power would fall on them to enable them to preach the Gospel with Authority and with Signs and Wonders to advance the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus also told His disciples and all of us that the Father loves to give His children good things (spiritual blessings and material blessing as appropriate in order to give to others), to store treasures for yourself in Heaven (i.e., walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh), and that you will do greater works than He if you have faith — faith that moves mountains and brings the unseen into the seen.

Experiences of the supernatural realm and God’s love and power are indeed supposed to be the normal part of the Christian life. Jesus’ entire ministry was characterized by the disciples constantly amazed and befuddled at what Jesus was doing, but once they were filled with the Holy Spirit after Jesus’ ascension, they went on to continue Jesus’ work and even surpass it in terms of unprecedented supernatural manifestations.

Patricia King, Todd Bentley, and others (including my own church) have had a huge impact on my life over the past couple of years — to such a huge degree that I’ve also begun to have supernatural encounters with God and walk in an anointing of prophetic impartation. I’m not saying this to boast, nor am I saying that I’m joining some kind of exclusive club of super-believers. To God be all the glory! What I am saying is that my relationship with God has grown exponentially as I’ve taken teachings on the prophetic and apostolic gifts to heart and walked forward in faith. This isn’t heresy, this is simply believing that when Jesus said that signs and wonders would follow those who believe and that we would baptize the nations, He actually meant it. Or believing that when Paul talked about his supernatural experiences, He actually expected others to have their own experiences (which is why we’re not to have spiritual pride — everyone is completely and equally able to experience the supernatural).

One more comment relating to something you keep mentioning on your blog: you say that the Apostolic-Prophetic movement teaches that certain people can receive revelation from God and walk in a level of anointing that others won’t, therefore they are the leaders of the movement and other people follow them. To be blunt, this is nonsense. Patricia King, Todd Bentley, Bill Johnson, and many others base their entire ministries on the concept that EVERYONE can walk in the anointing of the Holy Spirit and experience divine revelation. I personally was at a meeting where Todd and his team laid hands on every single person in the room to receive the same apostolic anointing he has. Freely he has been given, so freely he gave. I honestly believe there’s nothing Todd has done or experienced in Christ that I can’t do as I grow and mature in the faith. At this point in my life, if God told me to go to a crusade and preach to thousands and cast out demons and heal the sick in Jesus’ name, I would go and do it. As of yet, I haven’t gotten the word, but if I do, praise be to God! And Lord help me! :)

Fellow sister in Christ, I do bless you and hope that my words aren’t taken in anger or malice. I simply believe you are in error and that a friendly rebuke must be made. My entreaty to you is to seek the Lord on these matters and discover what His will is for you. I’ve had to eat my words many times and repent of many errors I’ve made over the years. I truly hope you are humble enough to do likewise.

Holly….I appreciate your blog and agree with your statements on this movement. My previous church..a pentecostal assembly of Canada… has embraced some of this teaching and I have left. While looking for another church I researched further and to my dismay discovered that the Salavation Army Church in Canada’s Colleges are now under the Wagner Leadership Institute and that Wesley and Stacey Campbell are on the board of references and also are teachers as is Pat King!!! I doubt that the ordinary church member is aware of this connection but they will soon as these War college graduates bring in these teachings. http://www.thewarcollege.com/van_whysignup.html

I have a warning for you sister and it is hte same warning that was given to the Pharasies & saducees of Pauls time & that is “is this is of man it will die out – but if this is of God, then you end up fighting God”

JD and Herb….from your comments, I can only infer thatyou know somewhat of this movement and have strong feelings around it. Would it not have been more fruitful to quote a scripture to back up your beliefs. I don’t think a veiled threat or name calling has helped. In I Thessalonians 5:21, Paul says to Christians, Test all things: hold fast what is good. So, if we do not test things, we are disobeying Scripture, and anybody who tells us not to test things is, himself not being true to scripture.

hi. no my feelings are not strong about the movement. my feelings are strong about the fact that in our day and age it seems to be very popular for today’s Christian to start a website about all of the bad Christians in the world. It is popular for believers to post on blog’s and discussion board about all of the people who are going to face God’s wrath and judgment because they teach a false gospel. to some, all churches are bad, all pastors are bad, and all ministers are bad.

my point in reality what does scripture say???

1 timothy 5:19 says that we are not to receive and accusation against an elder, unless it is backed up by at least two or three witnesses.

to me in this situation a Christian listening to what someone said about another Christian without hearing it for themselves is in error.

these people are not even able to defend themselves on the multiple blogs and discussion boards that are out there.

i lead christian people…. when i find something in written form that i think is false teaching i have those that i lead read it as well, and tell me what they think… then we discuss. when i find something recorded, sound/video we watch and listen and then discuss. i do not say “hey everyone, i am about to show you some false teaching”… or “hey listen to this apostate”.

i just think that the numerous blogs and discussion boards that are out here today on “christians in error” often time do more harm than good.

people are quick to google a name, and just because something comes up negative, they think they have something.

truth is, we are all messed up here in america, and few are scratching the surface in what we could do or should do for Christ. i just do not believe that blowing out someones candle makes mine any brighter. king and wagner could implode today and that does not change the fact that the majority of christians can’t stay married, can’t be happy in a church, don’t pay their bills, and watch t.v. more than they read the word and share their faith.

it is not all the errant teaching or false doctrine that is hindering the church today… its the fact that we do nothing with the truth we know.

I have a warning for you sister and it is hte same warning that was given to the Pharasies & saducees of Pauls time & that is “is this is of man it will die out – but if this is of God, then you end up fighting God”

Be careful in your words & in YOUR Doctrine!

JD

Hello JD: I have read many of Holly’s reports on her blog. It never ceases to amaze me that people critisize her for not only exposing false doctrine but false teachers as well. I will tell you what Paul tells us Galatians 1:8 “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed (NKJV) or eternally condemned (NIV).

Then when we reflect on Jesus words Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.(NKJV) OR ferocious wolves (NIV)

Our Lord Jesus and then The apostle Paul warns us about these people and thier false doctrines, Holly is 100% correct and she is justified in her writings, these people are apostate teachers and if they are not saved are doomed for hell. She has nothing to be careful of, these people are the ones who should be careful. Proverbs 1:7(NKJV), The fear of The Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools ( which are these people) despise wisdom and instruction, Hebrews 10:31 “What a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God” (NKJV)

I want to thank you Holly and encourage you for exposing these heratics and thier false teachings. I read your newest blog report about Bill Hammon, I would strongly recommend anyone who reads this and follows Bill Hammon, they need to get away from this person and his false teachings, their is no where in Scripture that states anyone will be made perfect here on earth as we all have a sinful nature Romans 3:10….(NKJV) ” there is none rightoue, no, not one” (NKJV) Romans 3:23 ” for all have sinned all fall short of the glory of God” (NKJV). Bill Hammon would be wiser to confess his sins 1 John 1:9, repent of his sins and ask The Lord into his heart, if he does not he will have no excuse when he stands before Our Lord on judgement day to be cast into the lake of fire Revelation 20:11-15.

In Christ

Dave

Holly I have one favour to ask, could you focus on the ministers and churches who are actually leadings others to Christ, and maybe back away from these heratics and not give them any more exposer. I guess I am saying could you show more of the really great works of Our Lord and us His people. I am asking so as to encourage others to encourage our Brothers and Sisters in The Lord Jesus Christ to continue to push forward in Love for Our Savior.

I don’t know the person who wrote this, but I do know this person is wrong, and very biased. It’s sad to see how people spread their lies about God’s children without any remorse. Be careful of what you say, you might regret it on Judgement Day.

What a shame, my comment was cut for some reason, so what I wrote is now lost. I can’t recall what I wrote word for word. Well, basically what I said was that the person who wrote this article is wrong and is spreading lies against one of God’s children. This person is lying about Branham.

“Many of Branham’s critics believe he genuinely had a supernatural gift of healing, but that it wasn’t from God since he promoted heretical teachings”

“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth. Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind. If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.” (John 9:31-33)

The error is in heratic teachings, oh I am sorry maybe Bill or Patricia King or Benny Hinn or one of the other false teachers will cast a spell or something like that on me, please and I say this as loving as I can, I rebuke these false teachers and thier teachings Jude 9 and this I do on the authority of Jesus Matthew 28:18 who has given all Believers His Authority Luke 10:19. These people are doomed for the lake of fire to be with thier father satan.

If you want to defend Jesus lets talk, but not these heratics who by the way are only men and women created by Our Lord, yet are the seed of thier father satan. Jesus Christ shed His blood for us not these people, He died for us not these people and He rose again for us, these people did not. Please everyone remember Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior and His Blood proves it. He paid the price isaiah 52:13-53:12 never forget this!!!!

Choose today who you will serve Jesus or these heratics choice is yours!!!

Dave you are way too focused on your self… yes this is the spirit of error blog… that is why holly points out spirit of error.

you said… “”Holly I have one favour to ask, could you focus on the ministers and churches who are actually leadings others to Christ, and maybe back away from these heratics and not give them any more exposer.””

dave, that is like calling espn and as them to report on the war on terrorism. that is all i was pointing out.

and why do you think i am defending false teaching. can you quote even one things that i have typed that would incline to such thinking?

Ezekial 3:
17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me: 18 When I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life, that same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand. 19 Yet, if you warn the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul. 20 “Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I lay a stumbling block before him, he shall die; because you did not give him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand. 21 Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man that the righteous should not sin, and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; also you will have delivered your soul.”

April 16th, 2007 at 2:22 pm
Hello Everyone especially all my Brothers and Sisters in The Lord Jesus Christ: I will be brief. I have given allot of thought and prayer to what we all comment on good, bad or in between. I have decided that after prayer I am and so are most of us reacting to so many things on this blog. We are all in our minds and hearts to one degree or another right.

The point I am trying to make, would it not be wiser for all of us to stop trying to get points across about people and instead concentrate how we could encourage one another in The Word. I know that there are many false teachers and false works, yet do you not think it would be wiser to follow Jesus example and pray for people who we feel are in error of scripture Matthew 5:43-48. If they are wrong, The Lord will, as always, deal with them and thier works, He will deny them Matthew 7:21-23 and Romans 12:19-20. If we go even further we see His example on the Cross
Luke 23:34.

I can speak from personal experience here as I am as wrong as anyone else, and as Jesus also reminds us in Matthew 5:14-16 we are His light, the light of the world, and we are to shine for Him so as to glorify The Father in heaven.

I pray that we can turn Holly’s wonderful blog into an encouraging spirit filled site for one another. It would be so wonderful if others would read this blog and write comments like Trust in the Lord, I recieved Christ today, I was water baptised today, etc.

you will know them by their fruits,just concerning benny hinn.he always glorifies JESUS and takes no praise for himself, he has preached the gospel to millions and seen millions saved and born again into the kingdom of our Lord JESUS CHRIST.he has signs aqnd wonders follow and confirm his ministry,for those signs shall follow all who believe,they will heal the sick,they will cast out demons and they will raise the dead, in my name JESUS said.besides that his ministry is responsible for feeding clothing and housing thousands of people in some of the poorest nations in the world.you will know them by their fruit JESUS CHRIST said.from where im standing as a fellow christian brother in the LORD thats good friut all glorifying GOD.whats your fruit like.lets pull the plank out of our own eye instead of the speck in our brothers eye.

I don’t know much about Benny Hinn but you must remember to that the Bible says many will say “Lord, Lord, I cast out demons in your name, I preached in your name, I even raised the dead in your name”, and Jesus will say to them “I never knew you”.

You have to look at ALL the fruit, not just the signs and wonders. Don’t take this as something against Benny Hinn because as I said I don’t know much about him so I couldn’t say anything either way.

the problem is that so many people seek the gifts or signs and wonders rather than Christ himself, or should i say His hands instead of face. We live in a fallen world ever since Adam died. Yehweh wants our soul, not for us to go around and act all out of place. Yahweh as set a devine order to follow. I myself are guilty of teaching things that are not in the Word. Thank you Lord for your mercy. Face it though, the Word is the final authority. You cant add or take away. So you can keep your traditions and revalations. Rocks falling from God, rooms in Heaven with body parts, barking like dogs, gold dust, and the list goes on and on. C’mon family. I love you all so much in the Lord. We can so easly be on some other stuff. Read your Word!!!

Hi there. This whole apostle thing is premature. Do any of these so called apostles remind you of any of the one in the bible? Ans. Yes, like the ones who did no mighty works and sat around all day beuracrating. Don’t forget the bible says that the signs of an apostle are might signs and wonders and not mearly being assigned to some list. There was an over abundance of miracles that could be seen in the scriptures and there is a lack of any miracles these fools produce. And guess what…falling down on the floor is no miracle let me tell you. A guy like Benny Hinn uses “slain in the spirit” to make you believe that real healing miracles really happened. The miracles no one sees but you just look out for that arm or jacket flying your way. The guy never prays for or allows anyone who is noticably sick or malformed to come near the stage.

Hey saints- let’s not do this – waste our time attacking one another – Listen Paul- when the folks told him about false preachers going around baptizing in various names (or whatever) If it’s briniging people to Jesus that’s what it is all about. These people you speak of are living Godly lives, walking in love- totally in love with Jesus – and they do not spend their time critisizing others – they love, they serve – if there is some doctrine I don’t agree with – it really does not matter – who am I?? God is a wonderful multi-faceted wise God. Jesus is coming for a body that is united. We can be united by walking in love “love always believes the best of every person.” And refuse to get caught up in this stuff.

1 Cor 2 4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

A few points:
1) I don’t think verbal assaults are very Christ-like. Love each other.
2) I’m not familiar with Patricia King and I just read 2 of Bentley’s articles this morning. I got up at 5 a.m. today b/c I’m recovering from jet-lag after returning from a mission trip in Kazakhstan. I was reading my Bible and I came across the the story in Acts 16 where a girl was possessed by the spirit of the python. After googling it, I found Bentley’s article on the subject and I found it very informative and helpful. Later, I found his article on angels. Just now I found Holly’s blog, and I think she does make some interesting points, though I have to disagree with her on some ideas. Rather than battling all this out through worldly logic though, I’d prefer to just ask God for wisdom and discernment, which is what I suggest to future readers of this blog.
3) The main thing I have to say in response to Holly’s blog is why shouldn’t people expect supernatural experiences as part of their walk with Christ? If people want to experience such things just for the sake of feeling God’s power, I understand Holly’s argument, but if you’re truly seeking God and letting His will run your life, why shouldn’t you expect Him to perform miracles through you? A month ago, I may have had a different opinion on this issue, but let me explain my personal experience, which is the basis for my comments:
4) 3 weeks ago today, I was in Kazakhstan in a city called Stepnogorsk. I was part of a team of 3 missionaries (the other two were Laura and April) and we were putting on an English camp through the church in Stepnogorsk as an outreach ministry. We were bickering a lot during lesson planning and becoming frustrated with the language barrier (since none of us speak Russian and our translator, Tanya, was good, but not quite fluent). During quiet prayer time at the Bible study at the church, I began to understand that the enemy was causing our frustrations, so I began to pray them out. During the same, prayer time, God revealed to Apryl that Laura’s friends (who are pagans) are searching for God though they don’t understand it yet. She told us about this revelation later when we were back in our apartment. It frustrated her b/c her father is also unsaved, and she wanted affirmation that he was also seeking God. We prayed that God would send his spirit upon Apryl’s father, and while we were praying, the Spirit spoke through Laura and said that it was going to take a while, but Apryl’s father would be okay. We praised God and rejoiced, saying the devil must be terrified because the room was so full of the Spirit. Apryl and Tanya got ready for bed, and Laura and I went into the kitchen to write about it all in our journals. While we were discussing things, Apryl called us back into the bedroom and said, “Well, God’s been talking to me for a while, and I’ve got a few things to tell you. Angela, your spiritual gift is healing.” It came as a complete shock and I said. “Wow! How did you know I’d been praying about that? Did I mention it to you guys at all?” I hadn’t. It was like the Spirit was already in the apartment to tell us about Apryl’s father and just decided to drop off this spiritual gift while He was there. Laura and I returned to the kitchen to talk, and we reminded Apryl to pray over her dreams before she slept (early on in the trip we realized how vulnerable we were to spiritual attack in our dreams, so we made a point to ask God for protection before going to sleep.) Laura and I started praying together, and I’m not sure how to describe how or when we knew, but suddenly we were on the floor fervently praying demons out of the apartment. Earlier when I’d said the devil was terrified by the Spirit’s presence in the apartment, I was right. He was terrified and he sent a counterattack. We prayed them all out, and asked God to protect us through the night. When we finally went to bed, Tanya asked me what was going on. I told her that Laura and I had just prayed demons out of the apartment (it sounded that candid. I’m not sure how you say something like that without coming across as very blunt). And after hesitating for a few seconds, I added, “but it’s okay b/c God sent angels to protect us. There is one by the door and two by the window.” Laura sat up in bed, surprised that I could tell they were there too. In the morning we all talked about it and agreed that a forth had entered a little while later. It’s hard to describe them. We could see them without seeing them. They were as tall as the ceiling and wearing white robes. (I think I had a more detailed description of them at the time, but the backpack with my journal in it was stolen off a train in Germany, so I don’t have my written records to look back upon). Later in the trip, we saw another with a scepter/sword. They had really large wings.

Um, basically, my point in telling this story is that A) supernatural God stuff like that does happen and B) it can happen to anyone. Prior to my trip to Kazakhstan, I’d never experienced anything quite that extreme, and I lived under the assumption that it didn’t happen to normal people. But in Christ, we are a new creation, and we’re not normal anymore. I am a young growing Christian, and though I’ve only had a few awesome (literal sense of the word: so amazing that they make you kinda fearful) experiences, I see no reason to believe that those wouldn’t become more frequent if I were constantly in a humble state before God. The Spirit moves in us and does amazing things in us when we’re humble enough to let Him in. If you lose more of yourself, there’s more room for the Spirit to fill you up.

I’m not familiar with the movement this blog addresses, but from what I have read, my experiences (which were outside of the movement) are a little too similar to deny that it has any validity. After reading this blog, I will regard the movement with a spirit of discernment, but I don’t think either side on this argument has a complete understanding of the truth that only God knows.
The biggest thing I take from all this is that the body of Christ would be a lot more effective if it was unified. We all believe in making ourselves one with Christ, should we not also strive to make ourselves one with each other?

God says Do your prophets not harm, what if you are wrong,then what? And it does say in the bible to be perfect as Jesus is perfect. I wonder if you speak in tongues? I believe that you don’t. In the bible, it says All not some, but all those who believe will cast out demons, lay hands on the sick, and speak in tongues. That’s why you do not have any wisdom or discernment in this matter. Its says in Proverbs that a Fool will open his mouth and it will no be important. Also it grieves the Holy Spirit to gossip without someone defending themselves! I would like to ask how much time do you spend in prayer or even intercession, probably not even ten minutes or even asking God what to pray for! If someone spent 2 hours a day with the Lord, then God would reveal prophetic words, visions and words of knowledge, because it has happened to me and it won’t happen to just anyone unless they pay the price, which is spending time with the Lord. My warning to you is to start spending time with God. I truely believe that you are jealous because they see things and you don’t is because you are not pleasing God and doing what it requires to see the things of God!

It is true that Branham ended his ministry with errors of teaching. This is a well known fact. It is also true that other men of God have fallen in difrent kind if ditches, both by teaching and lifestyle. In the case of Branham I belive Kenneth Hagin is telling how God tryed to stop Branham, and also Mr Hagin tryed to talk to him – but hi did not listen. He was an evangelist but wantet to be a teacher and made a mess and was pulled if the scene.

However it is common held that men selectet of God for service are not perfect and can do wrong. But that does not contredict the fact that God choose them and used them.

I am pretty sure that Todd Bentley does not share the teachings of Mr Branham – but simply stating that the it was the same angel. How fantastic that might sound – it is a huge diference. Bentley does talk a lot about heaven and angels – and we will all in due time share these experinces – if we stays with the Lord.

I am suprised that you do not see and understand the difrence, but you can now maybe correct yourself and in deed critise on a fair and correct ground.

I think it is less wise to look only for errors and not be able to take any good teching from the sources you study, and I might expect that you wery negative bios prevent you for giving good and sound judgment.

Better then making a crusaide against other preachers would be to preach the gospel and care about what is most importaint – the salvation of people who do not know God. I am pretty sure that people like Todd Bentley who actualy is preaching the gospel with signs and wounders – are leading a lot if people to Christ.

I read the first few line of your artical and that was enough for me, how can you pick holes in someones ministry, (whether bently and king are wrong or right) surely it is God position to Judge NOT your’s.

Personally I think that you are walking on very dangerous ground (matthew 7:1)

Davy……that is not judgement….please go and get a clearer biblical understanding on judgement. This so called judgement nonsense seems to be infecting many minds and hearts today.

Oh How dare us expose error…that is judgement……Exposing error is neccessary! Are you a Father? What will you tell your children to reprove and discipline them when they error? Will that be judging them. People keep the truth coming for his glory…you never know whos life will be touched and impacted for the Kingdom! Pharisees…the religious people of Jesus’ day hated truth and to be exposed! It seems that mind set has continued throughout the ages.

Much of the Church of Jesus Christ – especially in the United States – seems to have fallen into the error of seeking a political Kingdom at least since the late 1970’s. Believers need to recall the words of the Holy Spirit as recorded by Paul: “For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds; Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ”

Politics is not a spiritual weapon: it is a CARNAL weapon. Politics is not about submitting one’s own thoughts and will to the obedience of Christ, but is rather about controlling the behavior of others according to one’s own interpretations and “the Law”. Political “Chrsitianity” is not Christianity at all, but rather just bondage to the Law and conformance to This World disguised in filthy robes of self-righteousness.

Believers in Jesus Christ need to remember how He warned us again and again that many false prophets would arise in His Name – and that we are NOT TO FOLLOW THEM. Jesus never told us to look for another forerunner, nor did He say that special righteous people would lead the world into an era of righteousness before He returned. RATHER HE WARNED THAT THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE RIGHTEOUS WOULD LEAD THE WORLD TO THE VERY BRINK OF DESTRUCTION BEFORE HE (JESUS) RETURNS!

Very few chruches seem to teach this important truth: that Antichrist must arise as a “Christian” first: in order to turn away from the faith of his fathers, he must first appear to embrace that faith as a “Christian”! The worst earthly enemy of believers does not arise from without, but FROM WITHIN! Antichrist is a wolf in sheep’s clothing; and he is already here, ready to be revealed.

Brothers and sisters, do not be deceived: Antichrist is here, and only barely hidden. The false prophet is here. The “mark” (Gk. “charagma” – stamping or lithograph) is already here in the form of an implantable ID “chip” bearing the number of a man (…probably manufactured in the Far East, and full of toxins and disease organisms that it can spill into the bloodstream when broken – Rev 16:2.) The “image” (Gk. “ikon’) of the beast that moves and speaks is already here, as near as your computer screen: it need be nothing more than an animated computer icon with an attached audio clip. All that is needed is that we discover that to buy food we must receive the ID implant and click or touch the icon to assent that “so-and-so [a politician-warrior] is the savior of the world”… and we have Revelation 13 fulfilled. That “savior” is going to claim to be a CHRISTIAN FIRST, and those who follow him are doomed for eternity.

“I am pretty sure that Todd Bentley does not share the teachings of Mr Branham – but simply stating that the it was the same angel. How fantastic that might sound – it is a huge diference. Bentley does talk a lot about heaven and angels – and we will all in due time share these experinces – if we stays with the Lord.”

This is so true, and it is fairly non sequitur to say Todd Bentley is in error because of it.

We are all searching for the truth. Everyone on this blog has and is searching. It is God who will lead us into all truth. Keep leaning totally on Him to show you the truth. Don’t put Him in a box, let Him kick the ends of the box your past knowledge of Him may have created. Be open to His leading, you will know when it is Him showing you and if you are unsure test the spirits test the teaching, test what you here. God has promised us wisdom if we ask for it. Just don’t get stuck in what you all ready believe, God may want to change it.
These leaders are also searching for truth and I don’t believe they are intentionally teaching something that they know is wrong. I do know that there are those who purposely deceive or follow Satan’s whispering to and deceive but in these cases I believe these people are sincere.
I too have had lots of experiences with God, lots of dreams where He has directed me with issues with my children and myself, He has guided me into the right place and gave me the knowledge needed to help someone. God is an awesome Father and I seek His face, His presence and anything else He has for me.

Hi,
I agree with the fact that in latter times many will have gifts in fact we all have the gifts just that some of us dont manifest what God has given , and so i am not here to judge anyone on their gifts or even their actions – that is left to our Lord Jesus. What i will say that i find alarming, is that all these people seem to be making ridiculous amounts of money for their services. You cannot serve God and wealth

I know someone is about to say -freely you received….
this particular scripture is actually speaking about the gifts, freely you received them, so freely you should give them, heal the sick , raise the dead etc.

So why for the love of the Lord are people paying to have the spirit imparted to them or to get healed, we should be walking the streets performing this command from the Lord!!!! the bible actually says we all have the anointing of Christ our Lord and are no longer servants of God, but Sons of God.
Being a Son of God means we all walk as the Son of God did.

God doesnt play favourites and the gifts are irrevocable, but we all need to be aware of how and why we use them.With our Power comes responsibility.Someone may have great gifts and abuse them, that doesnt mean the gifts come from Satan, we can tell by the fruit of that person.

This post is not to target or blame anyone just to urge us to use our gifts for love, for love is the greatest of all of them.

My dear sister in Christ I have one question for you are you walking in the evidences of what Jesus said would be the marks of a believer when he was speaking in the latter part of Mark 16.

Mr Bentley, and Ms. King are striving to do just that and the Holy Spirit is responding to their hunger for God.

The biggest reason that North Americanst want nothing to do with christianity is that they do not see a difference between the religious of christianity and the religious people of the other major world religions. As the Lord spoke through the Apostle Paul the kingdom of God is not is word but in demonstration of the power of God. Jesus didn’t just talk people to death He met their needs (supernaturally).

This is the ministry of Jesus which He still desires to do today in the world through His children. Maybe instead of spending your time criticizing your brothers and sisters in Christ much of which is with inaccurate information you might spend your time pursuing the purpose and destiny God has for you.

I have listened to a lot of Todd Bentley’s teaching, and it started to make me feel inferior because I did not experience what he was. Then I realised that the problem was with me, not Todd, it was my own insecurity and now it does not bother me. From what I remember, he did not say that we would all experience the same things. A lot of what he is doing is to do with spreading the gospel and helping the poor, no bad thing in my mind.

I have also listened a lot to Bill Johnson, and am amazed at what is happening through his church.

Both of these people are keen to mobilise the church to do the same works that Jesus did, and unfortunately this is going to offend some people.

I have not listened enough to Patricia to comment.

I am worried when people use the word “heretic”, I think that they should sit back and very carefully think about using words like this.

People like Todd and Bill are pushing the edge, and may make some mistakes along the way, only time will be able to show how much of what they did was of God. All I know is that they have both inspired me to move on with God, to deepen my relationship with Him and I am seeing God move more through me to touch other peoples’ lives.

The only person I know that is happy with “flame wars” is the devil. So it behoves us all to be humble an keep a tight rein on out tongues as per James.

states that a “HERETIC” is “anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.”

I’m a personal friend of Todd’s and many of his associates, simply put Todd’s heart to seek the face of God is greater than anyone i’ve ever met! True Todd has had many growing pains in the birthing of the ministry God has given him, but in those pains and struggles he has saught refuge in Christ our Lord.

TRUE: Todd is a heretic, his teachings struggle against the stagnent beliefs of a “bride that has fallen asleep” over 2000yrs and yah in the process he ruffels many peoples “feathers” ! Not unlike another popular HERETIC!

We struggle so hard against people who’s hearts are wild for God because they offend our own understandings, and yet ignore the evils of this world, which dim dull and null our perceptions of Christ and His heart for us His beloved, we fight amongst eachother because its easier to fight amongst ourselves than it is to fight ways of this sin-filled lustful world!

John the Apostle was the greatest of rebukers, but he only did so to those he knew intimately and loved dearly… Christ was no different He rebuked only because He loved those He rebuked!! I would encourage all of you to take this to heart, and be full of His Love! And to stop tearing down the His “Bride” cause I know I’d be pissed at anyone who tried to do that to mine!! Test all things thru the fruits of spirit and the chapter of Love 1 Cor 13 and you will find the truth, this is the best advice that i can give!

Having been to TACF myself, and loved it, I am all for supernatural experiences. They do nothing but bring us closer to the Lord. However, if people are off doctrinally they need to be corrected. Todd Bentley teaches tithing and sowing to receive the glory and this should stop. It’s simony. He may love the Lord, but saying he has more hunger than anyone else is just plain nonsense. God has given him a gift and let’s exalt the Giver only. I’m sick and tired of minister worship.

Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 5:21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 5:23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 5:24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

EPH 4:22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,

COL 3:9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds,

Self love or the old man is alive and well in the lives of most Christians and that is why we see the works of the Flesh rather than the gifts of the Spirit. The old man with his deeds has not been put off and the flesh with its passions and desires has not been crucified! So adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders is very common in the church of the flesh even amongst pastors who not only commit adultery and are hateful but are full of selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, and murders.

The new covenant is stricter than the old testament for Jesus said:

MT 5:27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ MT 5:28 “But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Matt 24:48 “But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ 24:49 “and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 24:50 “the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 24:51 “and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Liberalism has crept into the church including third wave churches where sins of the flesh are not only tolerated but are pampered including adultery and there is no more real holiness amongst God’s people never mind love. And hate by Christian is permissible especially toward those who hurt us or don’t agree with us be it in doctrines, Christian leaders, revivals, etc.

In other words I hate you because you are not saying what I am saying and you are not thinking what I am thinking. There is no love from these hypocrites demonstrated when push comes to show or people have a different opinion such as Todd Bentley is a loud mouth who needs to get everything approved by John Arnott in Hawaii

The idea that Todd Bentley is a man of God because God is doing miracles in Lakeland is stupid. They ignore the words of Jesus who told them:

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 7:22 “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 7:23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

MT 13:41 “The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

I’ve not even had time yet to read your article, but am amazed that such a contradiction could be made with regards to a “Supernatural” God, who whether we like it or not is bringing in a “Supernatural” Kingdom. Why should such a question be suggested?

Way over 1 million decisions for Christ. DOCUMENTED healings of cancer gone, blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, limbs restored, etc. Lets see, do I sit around and judge God working through one of His less than perfect children, or do I shut up and pray? It’s okay, I understand your need to kill the work of God like others with the same religious spirit who picked apart Jesus for healing on the wrong day, and rubbing spit in someone’s eye. You stay here and destroy people, I’m out the door to be the hand of God extended to a lost and dying world.

Dont know Todd, not going to his meetings, unless God gives me a dream and that I know in my spirit I am to go.

Todds a man, and no one is always right in this fallen world.
God knows how to humble a man, and he knows how to make His servant stand.

I wished I could find a body of believers in Christ that would just come together, worship and minister to each other. Just soak in the Lord, one has a song, one has a word……..you all know what I am talking about.
Yes we need leaders, but leaders that work( have jobs like all the rest of us) and love the sheep.

Holly sounds like she has been hurt by leadership, don’t be to hard on her, shes not a witch hunter. She has just seen alot of abuse in leadership. I am not saying she is right, just giving you all understanding.

If you see a brother sining a sin that is not unto death…..pray for him.
Don’t uncover him, cover him……this is love.

Dear Holly,
I thank the lord for you and your revelation of error on the apastolic phropetic movement.I am so thankful that you have exposed the false movement that has pentrated so many churches .I would rather know the truth than be kept in error and I am also so thankful to see that you have updated your blog. Unfortunatly my family has left our church because we learned that it followed Morning Star Min.If it wasn’t for you we would not have known what was wrong.
Please continue your upgrade of this as this false teaching is continuing to overtake the churches.I really feel this is so important to inform our brothers and sisters and give the warning.Thank you so very very much. May the Lord’s blessings be with you.
In Christ, Margrit

Hi Holly, This was a real good read. Thank you. I am gonna bookmark it so I can link to it later somehow. Just remember sweety, persecution and suffering for Christ name,,, is a part of the calling, as they hated, they will hate. I know it is hard to take all the heat from all those who have been bamboozled by the likes of Bentley, Wagner, Hinn and just about anyone else on TBN or Daystar. Keep your chin up hun,,, and keep looking up to The Lord. YOUR DOING A GREAT JOB. Damon

I came up on this site by what I would call happenstance, however as a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ, I firmly understand the principle of God’s children’s steps are orderes by Him. I am in my kitchen, and I get this very strong compulsion to look up Dr. Bill Hammon, and what do I find. So I know that my comment to the article relative to Ms King’s entry in a well known publication. My question would be, has trhere been any attempt to contact Ms king for clarification on the questionable statements prior to disseminating what appears to be personal attack? Why are not time and effort employed in dispelling error with Truth ,rather than the personal attack? Is this the comtemporary approach to dealing with error? If so, it is not the one that Christ used . God is not pleased when those who identify themselves as His create confusion among the breathern. What message does this send to the non-saved world? I don’t know either of you, but my spirit is severely troubled at this kind of behavior by those who kame the name of Christ. He is our example for ALL matters, maybe we might want to study His behaviors
a little deeper, by starting with the sincere milk of the word, before we attempt to consume the steak. God bless you!!

Christianity is a Supernatural belief system. How else can It be described and or defined? All of It’s transpirations are supernatural.
Thats where faith comes in. We accept what God has said about Himself by faith and rewards by faith and many of the rewards are manifested in the natural. Once we get to a point where we think that we can explain God away, then we become god. Deut 29:29 states the “The secret thing belong to God, but those that He reveals to us, belong to us, our children and our children’ children.” God deals with as as individuals, based oin what each of us needs in order for Him to accomplish His purpose in us.
So all of us will not have duplicate experiences. We are all at different places alond the spiritual continueum. We tend to want to put God in a box, so that we can handle Him, rather than Him be in charge of us. We must understand that we do not know every thing, in fact, we know very little. If and when we seek the face of God, that which we need to know, He will reveal to us. Lets allow God to be God, let Him do the correcting while focus on the “great commission”.

I staunchly support your ministry and encourage you to continue. It’s sad that so many are so blind that they are incapable or unwilling to see or hear the truth. I haven’t seen in any of your blogs where you have attacked anyone personally or besmirched their character out of spite. What you do is expose false teachings, and are always able to solidly back up your claims with scripture. Many of the people who post in disagreement usually base their arguments/rebuttals on emotionalism or personal experience, and they almost always parrot the teachings or poor hermeneutics of their pet sacred cow. I have yet to read a biblically sound defense by any poster for any of the people you expose.

I laughed when one of your posters claimed that Bentley had “Way over 1 million decisions for Christ. DOCUMENTED healings of cancer gone, blind eyes opened, deaf ears hearing, limbs restored, etc.” I haven’t seen one shred of evidence to support this, nor has anyone anywhere been able to produce it. “Decisions for Christ” and true conversion are two different things. Anyone can get caught up in emotionalism at altar call, but it takes the Holy Spirit to truly convert, and true conversion is life-long. From what I can discern, Bentley’s meetings were chock full of spirit, but it certainly wasn’t the Holy Spirit. Can God save souls at these abominable meetings? God can save anywhere. But if people were saved there, it was in spite of Bentley’s carnival of crazy rather than because of it.

I was born-again at a church that was biblically unsound. Although I love the people at my old church, like these people, they are deceived. The only reason I was able to escape from that church unscathed is because of God’s grace. He gave me His precious Word; He gave me wisdom, He gave me discernment, and He gave me a teachable heart. He also gave me internet service and book stores which allowed me to investigate my pastor’s errant teachings. It’s more difficult to convince a deceived Christian of the truth of God’s Word than it is to convince an atheist. Your work is certainly cut out for you!

Thank you, Holly, for your ministry. I’m sure you get discouraged, but keep contending for the truth. This is what each of us is called to do. With all my heart, I encourage you to keep your eyes heaven-ward and your heart pure and obedient before our Lord. Remember that these same people who “pooh-pooh” your efforts are the ones that most need your help. There are no coincidences. They came to your site for a reason, and I’d like to think that it’s because God is trying to reveal the truth to them. So what if they leave angry or outraged; so what if they think you’re judgmental or jealous or wrong. You planted a seed of truth, whether they like it or not. God is faithful and He always leads to truth. Now it’s up to them to either respond to God’s truth, or turn away from it in favor of their favorite preacher.

I like what Ms Growing says — good post! Not only will God reveal to us what we need to know — He already has through His Word. It’s true that God will communicate to us individually in whatever way He chooses, however, He will never communicate anything that would contradict the completed canon of His Word or induce us to lose control of ourselves or behave in a way that would not bring glory to Him.

Experiences are largely unreliable. The bible says”the heart is desperately wicked — who can know it?” and as scripture shows, the kinds of supernatural phenonmenon that Patricia King and Todd Bentley tout are simply not normative. Therefore, we must test all things in light of scripture. I believe that is the point Holly is trying to make.

Regarding Ms Growing’s statement that we ought to allow God to do the correcting: Of course, it is only God’s perogative to judge a person’s heart. But it is our responsibility to rightly divide the Word of God, to ensure that we are not ensnared by extra-biblical teachings that can lead us into dangerous supernatural or gnostic realms.