You KNEW what was in your head the moment you chose to do this. You KNEW what went through your mind before you stuck it in.

Don't give me the bullshit answers of "I don't know why...I have to see a therapist first." To me I feel like the only reason he says that is that he wants a counselor to be able to give him an answer so he can regurgitate it right back out again. Then he doesn't have to tell me what was in his head while he was putting that condom on ...if he really did. I feel, some days, like he is a liar and an asshole and I have to go to MC today with him for more lies.

I'm about 8 months out now, and if you read my profile you'll see that my WH has been cheating on me off and on during our entire relationship. With that in mind, and not knowing your whole situation, let me suggest this: maybe he is still too deep in the fog to know. Maybe he is just entirely broken, from things he isn't really aware of, and can't give you one "why". Maybe, as was the case with my WH, the habits of lying and hiding were ingrained in him at an early age, and just feel normal. Maybe he thought he was too smart to get caught.

These last 8 months have taught me that there are more "whys" than their are grains of sand in the universe. At the end of the day, for me anyway, I've come up with my own "whys"...none of which have a damn thing to do with me. What I am focused on now is the "how"...how does he plan to keep this from happening ever again? How does he plan to show his remorse, every minute of every day?

It takes awhile to move past the "why". If you don't ever get it from him, you'll figure it out for yourself eventually. I can just tell you that it wasn't and isn't you.

The WS knows WHY they did it. I don't think as a BS any reason (WHY) that is given for betrayal is ever enough.

I agree with easiersaid. How will they prevent themselves from doing it again.

Me

Posts: 828 | Registered: Apr 2010

Beemer♀ 38499Member # 38499

Posted: 9:06 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

This is something that really gets under my skin when I see it... I read the wayward forums quite a bit and I always see posts about "find your why" and all that BS - no disrespect meant to any waywards who may read this but the bottom line is: because you wanted to.

You can talk about FOO issues and abandonment and whatever else you wanna say contributed to your choice to cheat - but at the end of the day, you did it because you wanted to. No one held a gun to your head, no one forced you to enter into a sexual or emotional relationship with someone other than your spouse - you did it because you wanted to.

The WS may not actually know "why" in the sense that you are looking for. Our MC told me that the WS may never know why and I believe it. As a result, I went digging for my own answers.

To get to the point where you really understand why, you need an understanding of the psychology of affairs, as well as a better understanding of your WH's emotional needs. The why(s) can be found by breaking down the following areas:

1. Assuming your WH believes infidelity is wrong, then why did he violate his own moral beliefs. In other words, what contributed to the breaking down of his own personal boundaries. Usually the problem points back to FOO issues.

2. Which emotional needs were going unmet in his life? Everyone is motivated by the same two desires; to be happy and to avoid suffering. I'm not sure about your relationship, but many affairs are driven by a strong need for admiration (some call this external validation). Sometimes an affair is motivated by just the need for sexual fulfillment (the fantasy and excitement caused by the risk of doing something forbidden).

3. Poor emotional intimacy in the marriage (i.e. being connected). For some reason your WH did not feel comfortable discussing his needs and dissatisfaction with you. With true emotional intimacy, your spouse would have come to you first; letting you know there was an issue, instead of keeping it a secret. Since you are calling him "a liar and an asshole", this tells me that he may feel a need to keep secrets for fear of being judged and/or making you upset.

Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.

Posts: 5875 | Registered: Aug 2007

tired girl♀ 28053Member # 28053

Posted: 9:21 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

No disrespect meant to any BS's that read this, I have always found it interesting that a BS could know what a WS's why is. Unless of course they have been there themselves.

Topper, it took me two years to fully uncover what led me to make the decisions that I did. I am glad that my H was willing to wait for my answers.

Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5446 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

easiersaid♀ 38398Member # 38398

Posted: 9:24 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

Hardened, I agree with most except the emotional intimacy in the marriage part. I found out my WH cheated on every person he was with. Of course, I didn't know this going into our marriage, or I wouldn't have married him.

He has emotional intimacy problems with everyone, first and foremost with himself.

You can't boil everything that happens with a WS that ends up with them making these horrible choices to betray themselves and their spouses to "they wanted to".

Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5446 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

HardenMyHeart♂ 15902Member # 15902

Posted: 9:34 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

I have always found it interesting that a BS could know what a WS's why is. Unless of course they have been there themselves.

I disagree. I was able to learn the whys behind my FWW's affair before she did (see my response above). The problem for the BS is that they just don't have the context for understanding the dynamics of the affair. In my case, I was not understanding our relationship from my wife's point of view. It was during R when I finally began to understand the motivations that lead up to an affair, and what makes a good relationship. Once I clearly understood these things, the pre-affair picture began to emerge, and I was able to understand why my wife made the poor choices that she did.

Was this helpful for R? You bet it was. I now make sure her emotional needs are being met. Not only do I have a clear understanding of her needs, but I make sure they are being met. I also make sure we have a true emotional intimacy by taking the time to listen to her hopes, dreams, and fears without judgment.

Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.

Posts: 5875 | Registered: Aug 2007

SisterMilkshake♀ 30024Member # 30024

Posted: 9:35 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

I agree with at least a little bit of all the responses you have received here topperoff22. (Some more than others. )

I do believe that for the most part the answer to the "why" is because the WS's were selfish and they wanted to.

Your d-day is very recent. As tired girl has pointed out, it can take a long time for the WS to come to an understanding of their "why's".

I also feel it is pretty normal for you to be calling your WH an asshole and a liar at this point. I think it is great that your WH is going to go to IC. Most IC's aren't going to "give" their client an "answer". They will help their client find the answer. A good IC.

In fact, I have been frustrated sometimes when going to IC as I thought they would give me the "answer". I was taken aback when they expected me to do some digging and find the answer within myself. They keep me on track and give me feedback on my "answers" and whether or not I need to do some more digging.

I agree that it is not black and white, there is a whole lot of gray that goes on for WS's to manipulate things around in their head to justify their actions, and commit an A.

I also agree that "I don't know" is NOT an acceptable answer. It takes time, and lot of self review, actualization, and honesty to find the real why. Not the I was lonely, I didn't feel needed blah blah blah, but the answer to the WHY did you need to feel needed, WHY were you lonely in your marriage? THAT's the stuff that gets to the core of it, and allows a WS to really start the work of fixing, healing and improving themselves.

Hardened, I agree with most except the emotional intimacy in the marriage part.

This does not mean the BS is at fault, it just means that the WS has difficulty communicating for whatever reason. One of the challenges in a marriage is to break through this barrier. Pre-affair, my wife did not communicate her feelings and kept up walls. It wasn't just me, it was with everyone. During R I learned to listen without judgment. I mean really listen; in a way that she finally opened up. I now have a different understanding of who she is and what to expect. It has helped tremendously with trust and feeling confident I will not have to deal with another affair in the future.

Me: BH, Her: FWW - Long Term EA/PA
d-day: June 25, 2007
Married 30 years, Reconciled

Inner peace begins the moment you choose not to allow another person or event to control your emotions.

Posts: 5875 | Registered: Aug 2007

womaninflux♀ 39667Member # 39667

Posted: 9:44 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

I agree with everything said and will add that it's not a black and white thing, which is so hard to accept. If you are the BS, you see it in right/wrong terms. But it really is a complex, multi-layered situation. Many WS cheat because they are emotionally disconnected not only in the marriage but also in life in general. They've never formed the kind of emotional attachments necessary and have been trying to fill the void their entire life in one way or another. The next layer down is that they are chronically depressed because of this. Also, a lot of people who engage in an affair are insecure. Many have witnessed or suffered some sort of trauma in their personal life and it was never addressed in a helpful/healthy way and they have carried this pain with them for a long time and that brought on the depression.

It's usually not a simple answer. Have some patience. I know that is not what you want to hear ( not what I want to hear, either!) but it really is true. Time is going to peel back the layers for you and your WS.

You know I think your great, but my reasons did not start nor end there.

It took a long time for me to be able to voice what was wrong, and to change myself. I blamed the marriage for a bit, and then I started looking at me. That was when the answers started coming.

Your H probably doesn't know right now, but he can tell you that he is working hard to figure it out and that he will share everything he learns along the way.

Me45 Him 45 Hardlessons DS 25,23,20
D Day 1/18/10 his 3/8/2012 mine
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt

Posts: 5446 | Registered: Mar 2010 | From: az

SisterMilkshake♀ 30024Member # 30024

Posted: 9:48 AM, October 2nd (Wednesday), 2013

Since you are calling him "a liar and an asshole", this tells me that he feels a strong need to keep secrets for fear of being judged and/or making you upset.

Although I feel it is normal at this stage for you to be calling your WH these names, it really isn't going to help you to reconcile.

I had a notebook that I used to call my fWH names, to vent. I also had SI to vent, rant and rave about fWH. Calling him all kinds of awful names. I needed to do this. However, FWH didn't need to hear it. He was trying. He was remorseful. As much as we BS's need to feel safe, so do the WS's. Even though they were the ones that created this mess that made everyone feel unsafe, our marriages need to be the "soft place to fall" for both spouses.

Poor emotional intimacy in the marriage (i.e. being connected). For some reason your WH did not feel comfortable discussing his needs and dissatisfaction with you. With true emotional intimacy, your spouse would have come to you first; letting you know there was an issue, instead of keeping it a secret. Since you are calling him "a liar and an asshole", this tells me that he feels a strong need to keep secrets for fear of being judged and/or making you upset.

Ouch!!!!!

I think the intimacy problem may be in the marriage, but for sure it is in the WS.

And to say that her husband's need to keep secrets is her fault... You don't even know if this pre-dates his affair. It could be the RESULT of his affair.

I truly, truly and strongly believe that a person has an affair because S/HE is broken, not because the marriage is broken.