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I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we'd be pimping them out as a Top 5 unit. One decent performance and one decidedly bad performance would be enough to have any fanbase concerned, even if the potential is still there.

And while Pees needs to be doing a better job, I think as usual we're skimping the details on both offense and defense by zeroing in on our coordinators for the brunt of the ire. As far as our defense is concerned, I think to begin with we were all being a little unrealistic not to expect the loss of the reigning DPOY not to have a significant impact on the defense. There's only so many ways a DC can manufacture coverage when your defensive line can't fight through blocks and your linebackers (the senior citizen of the group notwitstanding) lack explosiveness.

And as far as Cam is concerned, he definitely didn't call a good game on Sunday, but we need to recognize also that that 2nd half performance was a complete offensive meltdown, not just on the coaching side. He did in fact try to get Ray Rice going a little bit and he was stuffed pretty much every time late in the game, hence why his YPC went down from about 9 around midgame to 6 when the game ended. In hindsight I wish we had tried to utilize our power running game a little more in those 3rd and short situations, but at the same time, it's easy to see how our garbage short yardage execution could have come into play and then we'd just be bashing Cam for sticking with an ineffective run game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. At the end of the day, Cam's not out there missing blocks and making it impossible for anything to get going.

I'm not trying to defend Pees and Cameron as much as recognize that their poor coaching was accompanied by abysmal execution on the part of the players.

1. Agreed. Our defense hasn't shown that it's a top 5 unit. Maybe at forcing takeaways, but we haven't been able to stop anyone with any kind of consistency.

We are tied for 3rd in takeaways and 6th in points per game with 18.5. My point wasn't that we ARE a top-5 defense per se. More that one disappointing game and we're freaking out and already saying how awful this defense is. I think that we are spoiled by a tradition of dominant defenses year-in and year-out that a defense that most teams would be very happy with through two games and we severely underrate our own team. We are not accustomed to watching this team give up ANYTHING, if we were fans of another team I just think that we wouldn't have as ridiculously high of expectations.

It's actually been 2 disappointing games on defense, but yeah I get what you're saying.

What I really dislike is how we've almost allowed 2-straight 100 yard rushers and people act like it's nothing (the people who aren't freaking out about our defense). I remember the days where if we allowed ONE 100-yard rusher during the entire season it was a disappointment._________________#FireDeanPees...and Chris Hewitt....and Matt Weiss

I don't know if I'd go as far to say that we'd be pimping them out as a Top 5 unit. One decent performance and one decidedly bad performance would be enough to have any fanbase concerned, even if the potential is still there.

And while Pees needs to be doing a better job, I think as usual we're skimping the details on both offense and defense by zeroing in on our coordinators for the brunt of the ire. As far as our defense is concerned, I think to begin with we were all being a little unrealistic not to expect the loss of the reigning DPOY not to have a significant impact on the defense. There's only so many ways a DC can manufacture coverage when your defensive line can't fight through blocks and your linebackers (the senior citizen of the group notwitstanding) lack explosiveness.

And as far as Cam is concerned, he definitely didn't call a good game on Sunday, but we need to recognize also that that 2nd half performance was a complete offensive meltdown, not just on the coaching side. He did in fact try to get Ray Rice going a little bit and he was stuffed pretty much every time late in the game, hence why his YPC went down from about 9 around midgame to 6 when the game ended. In hindsight I wish we had tried to utilize our power running game a little more in those 3rd and short situations, but at the same time, it's easy to see how our garbage short yardage execution could have come into play and then we'd just be bashing Cam for sticking with an ineffective run game. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. At the end of the day, Cam's not out there missing blocks and making it impossible for anything to get going.

I'm not trying to defend Pees and Cameron as much as recognize that their poor coaching was accompanied by abysmal execution on the part of the players.

1. Agreed. Our defense hasn't shown that it's a top 5 unit. Maybe at forcing takeaways, but we haven't been able to stop anyone with any kind of consistency.

We are tied for 3rd in takeaways and 6th in points per game with 18.5. My point wasn't that we ARE a top-5 defense per se. More that one disappointing game and we're freaking out and already saying how awful this defense is. I think that we are spoiled by a tradition of dominant defenses year-in and year-out that a defense that most teams would be very happy with through two games and we severely underrate our own team. We are not accustomed to watching this team give up ANYTHING, if we were fans of another team I just think that we wouldn't have as ridiculously high of expectations.

It's actually been 2 disappointing games on defense, but yeah I get what you're saying.

What I really dislike is how we've almost allowed 2-straight 100 yard rushers and people act like it's nothing (the people who aren't freaking out about our defense). I remember the days where if we allowed ONE 100-yard rusher during the entire season it was a disappointment.

It's a passing league now, D's aren't built to stop the run as much as they used to be imo._________________

sayheykid wrote:

So true Russ. A just God would exercise his omnipotent influence over a football game.

It's actually been 2 disappointing games on defense, but yeah I get what you're saying.

What I really dislike is how we've almost allowed 2-straight 100 yard rushers and people act like it's nothing (the people who aren't freaking out about our defense). I remember the days where if we allowed ONE 100-yard rusher during the entire season it was a disappointment.

We are tied for 3rd in takeaways and 6th in points per game with 18.5. My point wasn't that we ARE a top-5 defense per se. More that one disappointing game and we're freaking out and already saying how awful this defense is. I think that we are spoiled by a tradition of dominant defenses year-in and year-out that a defense that most teams would be very happy with through two games and we severely underrate our own team. We are not accustomed to watching this team give up ANYTHING, if we were fans of another team I just think that we wouldn't have as ridiculously high of expectations.

I got your initial point and that's why I mentioned turnovers where we were top 5. But points aren't top 5 and when you account for the other defensive statistics, everything takes a tumble. Now I know what you mean, but unless we're fans of teams who've always been offensive teams without a defense to stand on... we're probably not pimping this defense.

The only teams I can think of that did this were the Saints from a few years back where they were pimping how good their 30-something ranked defense was because of how they forced turnovers in key situations. I think most fans would rather have a defense that stops its opponents most of the time and gives up say... 17 points, than a defense that allows the opponent to move on them consistently, but only gives up 17 points because they've found a way to get takeaways. Personally I look at takeaways as being a little luck driven. I'd rather not "rely" on that kind of defense to consistently work- it's more hit or miss.

So top 5 talk can't be argued on something so flimsy/inconsistent as takeaways, I could see if this game ended up happening in a similar manner to the Cincy game where 1) First half we allow them to play pretty good offense and move the ball and then 2) The second half we crush Vick and keep him from making plays, we shut down McCoy FTMP, etc... but as it stands, we'd just be REALLY sipping the purple (or insert other color) if we were a fanbase making that argument.

I suppose we COULD argue top 10 at this point, but if we don't step up our defense soon I'm not even sure I'd make that argument. They're just too reliant on takeaways and not on being able to get offenses off the field. the ole-fashioned way._________________

Pass D needs to be a lot better but I'm going to be glass half full today and just say Vick was unbelievable.

Either way I'm not worried about the defense at all. The pass protection on the otherhand terrifies me.

Special teams looks so much better.

at everyone who said we got a good return man and crappy WR in Jacoby Jones. Should have had two TDs againt the darling of this site.

Yeah, I'm not really that worried about the offense or the defense. We should/could have won that game and the Eagles have a ton of talent on both sides of the ball. The loss sucks, but I think we'll be fine.

I'm really not that worried about the pass D like everyone else. I think our defense can gain a lot from this game. We learned that we are going to have to be aggressive and keep blitzing to get pressure. With the CB's we have it shouldn't be a problem. Plus, our secondary learned that these refs aren't really calling a lot of illegal contact downfield so they can be more physical and aggressive. We are going to have to make adjustments, but I think our defense will be fine.

I'm probably more worried about our offense than our defense, but I'm not that worried about the offense either. Without one dumb call we win 27-24. Against a team with talent like the Eagles, I don't see how everyone thinks we did all that horrible to begin with. I mean, come on guys, New England lost to the Cardinals and Kolb by twice as much as we lost to Vick and the Eagles. And we lost to far worse teams last year. It's week 2, you guys need to stop worrying so much.

@Ravens_rool: We are built to stop the run tho...Upshaw/Lewis/McClain/Ngata/Kemoeatu/Cody are ALL run stuffers!!! We don't have coverage linebackers on this team

@coordinator: Hence why I said "almost".

I wouldn't consider Ray a run-stuffer anymore. Why else would he have lost that weight? He knows it's a passing league, so he's doing what he has to to keep up. And of course you can't abandon trying to stop the run completely, but I wouldn't say we're directly built to stop the run anymore...although that's not saying we can't stop the run, because we still can._________________

sayheykid wrote:

So true Russ. A just God would exercise his omnipotent influence over a football game.

It's actually been 2 disappointing games on defense, but yeah I get what you're saying.

What I really dislike is how we've almost allowed 2-straight 100 yard rushers and people act like it's nothing (the people who aren't freaking out about our defense). I remember the days where if we allowed ONE 100-yard rusher during the entire season it was a disappointment.

Uhh... Green-Ellis had 91 yards and McCoy had 81 yards.

It's not like we've allowed teams to run over us either. On the season, we have a 3.7 ypc carry against us. Although that's not tops in the league, it's hardly awful either.

Also, @SnA, the fact that you say it's actually been 2 disappointing games on defense, proves my point even further. In week 1, we gave up only 13 points. Sure there were things that could be improved, but it was against what looks like a pretty good offense. I keep hearing about how Cinci's D may not be that good because of how much they allowed vs. the Browns, but noone has mentioned that their O did very well against a Browns D that everyone was reminding us of how good they were when Vick and the Eagles struggled against them.