Ok--so i've posted on here now and then but without much regularity. So about me--im in midlife--have struggled with first full blown anorexia ---then sort of subclinical restricting for many years. I relapsed about 4 years ago and my current BMI is around 14. I'm 84 pounds. I've been trying to recover for 2 years---and things have not gone well. I am stuck beyond belief. Recognising this i decided IP might be beneficial at this point just to help me get through this stagnant period i can't seem to get out of on my own. The problem is there is no ip in my area. The only one is for people 17-24. There is one hospital program but i can't go into it for a variety of reasons i won't go into here---and besides i would only be allowed to stay for one week even if i could go. Faced with the above i wrote letters to our provincial minister of health, our premier, oprah, anderson cooper, dr oz, dr phil, ...you name them..i wrote them a letter if i thought they could somehow help me access inpatient treatment. I even posted a video on youtube.

I can't afford to pay for treatment and don't have any family or friends i could ask for this either. In fact im pretty much on my own with regards to getting over this. Gwyneth has been a godsend and she suggested i ask friends and also suggested a fundraiser. I've checked out all the ip's around the globe and so far the cheapest one i could find was $25,000 for 2 months. I don't have that kind of money and haven't the foggiest idea how i could go about raising it.....I'm not sure what a "fundraiser" would or could look like with regards to this. I want to get well so badly but yet i just can't seem to get beyond eating 1500 cals per day. I eat extremely nutritious foods and oddly enough--when i went to the Eating Disorder Centre in my town and gave them my diet diary the counsellor said to me.."this would be a normal intake for most adult women--how can i help you?" I sat there thinking WTF?? I mean i'm 84 flipping pounds and im 5 feet 5. Her remark just made my feelings about what i currently eat more entrenched. Anyway...if anyone has any ideas about how i might access ip..raise this money...etc. i would LOVE to hear them--i've pretty much run out of ideas. Thanks!

I think you do need hospital treatment. I'm nearly your weight and only 5 feet 1.5 (barely). And 30 years old. I take in a lot more calories than you (sedentary), but still only creeping along and stuck (haven't met the guidelines calorically here yet, but near there).

At age 25, I was FORCED into a hospital (wasn't a true "ED" program), but my rights were legally taken from me (not sure of the BMI...12-14 I assume...I would think that at your BMI a doctor + psychiatrist could certify you and force you into inpatient treatment. Not sure how they legally did it to me at age 25 (and a BMI of 12-14...i have no idea) and yet you can't seem to get in.

I hope you are at least sedentary. Girl, you need to increase those calories and eating only "nutritiously healthy foods" is a red flag to me for orthorexic type thinking.

Are you in Canada? UK? U.S?

I know most many "not intensive" programs have BMI cutoffs of 17 + (meaning you have to be BMI of 17 + in order to enter...because anything LOWER than 17 could mean you are liable for lots and lots of medical complications that mean you need need need supervision and hospital care or at least more intense medical supervision). So if under 17, that qualifies you for inpatient care (in hospitals, etc, because there is more risk involved).It also illustrates how extremely dangeous low BMI's are...any kind of low BMI is bad, so imagine something under 17!Thus, I would think you could be certified in.

When I was around BMI14 just this last september , a doctor and nurse both checked me out and said they could indeed have me legally put into hospital at that moment, even though I'm 30 years old...I was terrified. >>>BUT they said they wouldn't BECAUSE they had spoken to my psychiatrist and he didn't believe I needed hospital, my bloodwork and EEG were pretty normal, and I was (and am) very motivated, agreeable and aware of my circumstances .They also knew I never lost weight due to purposeful restriction...(depression, anxiety, digestion, orthorexia issues I guess)...so I was fitting the criteria for eating disorder, but not "really"....so I just regularly see the docs and etc...

Anyway, that was my past with it...surely there must be some way to get your "rights taken away from you" if you WANT them..LOL....most people don't want that

BUT in your case you SHOULD...you are clearly unable to do it yourself + you are a very very low BMI.

Best of luck! You need support. See a doctor and psychiatrist. Keep seeing them until you find the right ones.(hope that made sense)

I really hope you get into a program for however long it takes (don't be afraid , just don't be afraid, there's no need to be afraid, but be excited to take back your life)...

Seeing that the willingness is there but the specialist help doesn't seem to be and making that happen might be difficult.Have you may be considered speaking to your doctor about treatment in a medical hospital for a short stay and then persuing therapy on your own with someone after. Some eating disorder units don't want to touch the therapy part anyway really until people are weight restored.

If at a BMI of 14 like yourself or if below a BMI allowed for "less intensive" facilities or at an age not allowed in them..THEN you have an option to be admitted into a hospital (generally brought to psych ward after medical stabilization and you stay there, etc...don't be scared off by that though...i won't give my personal opinions on it (that is irrelevant)...i think its more important that you address the here and now and be vocal with your doctors about admission.I know its so confusing, right? I'm a bigger BMI than you (by now), but not by much I guess, and what i eat is "more than normal"...its more than most, yet wasn't gaining before and now is "up in the air"...so, I feel your frustration.But see some doctors (have bloodwork and EKG done, etc anyway; simple and quick tests). Then be proud of yourself for seeking help to get admitted. Even call up hospital dietitians in those units.

You said you can't go to the hospital in your area...hmm..I won't intrude and ask why...but like Gwyneth said, now is the time to call up any contacts you have to get to another location even if possible.

ok---guess i was not clear enough in my post. Ive been followed by a dr...she tried to get me a medical admission but it's impossible. And in my province i can't be certified...it's against the law. All my lab work is fairly normal and thus they can't give me a medical admission---there is a shortage of beds as is. And yes i have seen a shrink...and i could not get into the psych ward either. AND i've called upon all contacts....and i only have very few...no one could help with the money or anything else. Blood work and ECG have been done...pretty normal. In fact an internist i saw encouraged me to exercise. So...now you can see what im dealing with. So ...any further suggestions? I'm just completely at a friggin loss and so frustrated.

This is a probably not, but i don't know for sure as i've not looked into. May be it's worth looking into it. I know in the US there are some research based units that will admit people for free. I just don't know if they will take people from Canada or not. http://columbiaeatingdisorders.org/index.html

What province are you in? You can email me if you want to keep it privately.

I only ask because I was admission before at a bit lower than that BMI in one province...

and in my current province, i was BMI 14 (bit bit higher than that now, ...) but anyway, at that BMI all my bloodwork, ECG , etc was fine , but I was told I COULD be admitted forcibly...the only reason they never is cause they know i'm not "disordered" per se...like I cooperative, motivated, eating fine, etc etc , just depressed and anxious and bad gut ...the good medical reports were just a bonus meaning less inclination to admit meBUT if i'd requested it at that BMI, they would have .

With finances...can your family put the money in? (I think a lot of mothers would give their eyes and legs for their kid to get 100% better..you'd be surprised...even if you don't get along with family, etc...some are surprisingly desiring to do anything to get the nightmare over with)

If not family, then...hmm...have to think on that

I just can't for the life of me figure out why you cannot get certified. If I told my doctor and psychiatrist I wanted to be admitted, they'd do it.I mean, you could (this is hypothetical) threaten that you are a danger to your own health or something...they HAVE to admit people then ...that's extreme though..i'm just thinking out loud.

Hi Peljane, I did reply to your request for oldies post put have not had a response. Iam 59yrs old have had restrictive AN for 47years with only a few fleeting months of semi recovery. Iam 5ft 4ins and 87lbs and eat a healthy if not low calorie diet, and my bloods etc always come back normal so I know exactly what you are up against. Being older you just get left behind the main care is for the younger sufferers. Pity it wasnt the case when i was a young girl, AN was hardly known and I just got thrown from phsychiatrict unit to unit pumped up with anti psychotic drugs and stuffed with food then discharged. Never addressed any emotional issues hence I am now a hard core sufferer although would still like to somehow get a degree of recovery if poss. My cals are aroung 1000 per day sometimes a little more but mostly healthy food, so none worries, I look to all that I eat reasonably well. I hope you can somehow get assistance even in uk the resources are limited to mostly youngsters so I am on my own too. If you want to chat to me I am happy to help or at least be a support in your search.Love to all Silverbird

FYI: eating "1000" calories or "1500" is not "eating reasonably well".I do NOT mean to be rude, but sayig "my calories are around 1000 per day...but mostly healthy food, no no worries, ...I eat reasonably well"...

Do you not see an error in your statement? Eating 1000 calories per day does not = eating reasonably well. Eating "mostly healthy food" does NOT = eating reasonably well (I ate 600 calories before bed and I eat sweets and chocolate and starches and sugar before bed...yes I eat "healthy" during the day too, but I'll be damned if I feel bad for eating chocolate and "Junk" a little excessively more than I should).And what does that mean ? You say "I eat mostly healthy food...so no worries?"...what does that imply?

Silverbird , your BMI is 14.9...in no way shape or form are you healthy. The first step is to ADMIT that...in all facets...your eating is not healthy. Pelajane , your BMI is 14 you say.

My current BMI is aroun 15.1 . Last fall, it was below 13. I took action myself I am extremely short and in just barely less weight than both of you (and far shorter).I am NOT saying it isn't easy...and mayebe (most likely) I just personally don't understand, because for me I've never restricted or been afraid of food or numbers (for me it was stress, anxiety, depression, orthorexia, etc)...So maybe I don't understand.

But is there any way you can start helping yourself TODAY? Engage in this community. Stay with a friend (YOU MUST have friend OR family member OR co-worker, someone who is willing to be your partner in crime. DEMAND attention from your doctor to be monitoring you intensively..something , anything).

I am NOT saying you both are not motivated. BUT in the meantime (in the meantime) rather than wait for Dr. Phil or a fundraising effort to raise enough (could take a long time) or for an IP to magically lower their costs...why not look inside yourselves and take ONE action today...just ONE action...and tommorow take ONE other action, etc etc...

YOU have to want to do it for you. Don't wait. Don't wait for outside forces. What can you do today to make YOUR life a better place?Even if it means looking in the mirror and admitting "I do not eat reasonably well"....because eating 1000 cals or "healthy" does not mean reasonably well.

This is not mean to be harsh. Personally I find it frustrating, so I guess I just do not understand it at all. I just don't understand this disorder. Do something today for YOU...reclaim your conviction and reclaim your absolute willpower to take ONE small action today. Anything.

Join communities like this. Get a "buddy " system of accountability (like alcoholics do when they have a "buddy" who is recovered and they can call)...make this priority now...are you older? yes (me too)...but does that mean all hope is lost? does that mean that its no point in even trying? NO...all the MORE reason to triple the motivation.

Again, not trying to be rude. Trying to point out the absolutely false and unhealthy way you are thinking.

Sara i guess once again i have not been clear enough. I absolutely recognize that 1500 cals is not enough and stated that. I mean it's clear i recognise it or i wouldn't be seeking help would i? AND i am like you...i do not really actively restrict, nor do i really have fear of food. I can happily sit down and eat 1/2 an avocado and 2 eggs at the same time. (yet i have friends who are non ed who comment..wow that's a lot of fat in one meal..yet it doesn't bother me) I don't over exercise, or have any real weird behaviours. This is why i can't be committed and i have a dr. who has been following me closely for years and i have DEMANDED more help. But she has explained that as things stand in my province and as my behaviour is fairly normal she can't do anything.

AND there IS NO family or friends i can go stay with. I have tried to stress that, so you'd all get the picture. I know that must sound weird...my parents are both dead and i have no relationship with my brothers that would allow me to stay with any of them. Friends ditto.

I am not saying that i can't do this on my own. I keep trying and yes i have made some progress. Gwyneth mentioned ip and felt it was my best bet as i wasn't making enough progress on my own. I'm almost sorry i put up this post---i haven't been able to make my situation clear it seems, i guess partly because it's rather unusual. Oh and yes..i did contact all the research facilities in the States including Columbia. They weren't doing any research they felt applied to my situation. Most places seem to concentrate on the younger demographic for research purposes. I'm sorry to trouble you all...is there a way to take this post down?

Oh yes Sarah i should add--you say it isn't ed for you..rather stress, anxiety etc. and orthorexia. Yet your BMI is so low??? I must say I also got this way due to the same issues. 4 Years ago i lost both parents, my partner, and had a whack of bloody stress. AND i didn't restrict in the true sense of an...i was just orthorexic like you. And had some GI issues. I also eat sweets and enjoy them from time to time.( i have dessert every day) I made a lovely apple crumble last night and the night before had some sesame snaps loaded with sugar for dessert. I think you've misunderstood my situation.

Pelajane, i think it is a very courageous thing to decide that you need more help and do what you can to make that happen. It seems that you have made that decision and you feel that it is right for you, i hope you can get the help that you do need. Some people are stuck and recognising that and getting help is probably the best thing that they can do for themselves if they want to move forward.In outpatients if people are not moving forward after some time then after a while people will be referred to IP.Some people can do it on their own, it's possible. Two years is a long time to spend trying and sometimes there comes a time that people if they want to move on need to try something else and it takes like i said courage to recognise that.

Pelajane: Hmm...we sound A LOT a like. I can easily sit and eat 1/2 avocado, eggs also. But I add things now. Like a salad with a tablespoon of oil...and a slice of bread or two, etc etc...so are you doing that ? Because THAT is normal....start adding things...my BMI is around 15 and I've been where you are , trust me, I have severe digestive issues, but I'm moving ahead versus standing still.I'm also NOT exercising at all. You say you don't "overexercise"? But what does that mean? I only walk a couple times a day. So if you are doing more than walking, then I think there ARE things you can do too- like the example of the eggs and avocado you gave (yep, i eat that stuff too...but in the past i would "only" eat that along with salad maybe for a quick lunch because I had zero appetite, I was depressed, or cause thats what some paleo blog did)...NOW, i don't...Now, i addd the oil, now i add the bread and butter, now i add the dessert, etc etc etc...

so do you see what i mean?

Seriously, email if you need to. You can tell me what you currrently typically do and maybe I can see how you can start the adding thing in...you do sound lots like me afterall with how this came about!

The province I live in, there are outpatient services for eating disorders that only require a referral. If you had my nurse practitioner (find a nurse practitioner specifically trained in mental health...that is what i did...for my depression and stuff...so the mental health NP's are a lot more empathetic and eager and open to help with anything...and they are just one stance below a doctor really and can do bloodwork, and ecg's and all that...so less stressful than seeing a doctor maybe).And she could have referred me to the outpatient services if I'd wanted to go there (you can see a dietitian and psychologist there and possibly even attend a day program, etc )...these options are availablle and if you can't go IP, then they are a hell of a lot better than doing nothing at all.

I want to help if I can. My comments did not mean to be rude or offending. I get frustrated when I see people needing help . I think we all have a "I have to save the world" complex. Oops.

sarah i do have bread with that avocado and egg meal. I have a buttered fajita. I also have veg with it. And yes i just walk. I don't have a car so it's essential if i want to get anywhere! I live in BC. I saw a dietitian and didn't find it helpful. I should mention that i AM a registered nutritional consultant. One would think this would make it easier for me, but that's not the case. It actually makes things harder! We don't have any outpatient services in the city i live in..believe me BC is sadly lacking in treatment options. I wasn't offended so don't worry, just frustrated that the specifics of my situation weren't coming across. I wish i wasn't so bloody stuck and don't know why i am. I'd prefer to do things on my own, but i also recognise that sometimes one needs a push. It's maddening that i see people going into these ip places that look as though they could really be beneficial (i'm talking about the good ones) but i can't simply because i can't afford them or get funding for them. Oh well..that's life isn't it? Thanks to you all for your support and suggestions.

Pelajane: we sound much more alike than you think...i have a feeling you fell down the hole of depression, anxiety, crap going in life, then some "holistic and orthorexic" streams (unintentionally), combined perhaps with unpleasant guts (or not)...would be very open to chat with you anytime. seriously. There are ways to increase past 1500, you can do it.

the fact that you are a nutrition consultant tellls me a lot there...i thought about taking that path, but know its the whole holistic, orthorexic, clean, or blog issues that are possibly a factor there. so its like i can't "go there" anymore.

Also, I might might know of some dietitians and eating disorder services in Victoria that might be an option for you if you can go there (perhaps then even be referred to IP from there, or if nothing else have good support)...

In response to Sara eats whilst I understand your current difficulties I do feel that you were very on the attack in response to my post. I have been ill for 47years so I think you do not understand the implications of such a longterm practised way of life. I truly hope you find your way back to a healthy state while you are young so I very much encourage you to do that, as there is plenty of help for you out there. It is very difficult to get a correct answer to what my specific requirements are to gain etc as the advice given is for those to 25 and then 25 upwards but Iam almost 60 my requirements may be less as metabolism slows down as we get older. how do I know what to do? I am post menopausal although never really had periods. Who can reassure me? I appreciate your response and hope someone can enlighten me.Silverbird

pelajane, I wish I could help out or offer advice, but I'm really at a loss. I do agree that treatment is lacking in BC. The only inpatient centre I'm actually aware of (I've never looked, mind you) is on Galiano Island, though it is supposedly publicly funded. (Woodstone Residence - and I don't know if they have an age limit.) I'm still young so I can't even begin to comprehend all of your (both you and silverbird) difficulties with this debilitating illness. I, too, saw a dietitian here... She ended up aggravating the eating disorder I had by encouraging more orthorexic habits, so I can at least understand your frustration on that front. Also, I don't find it surprising that your job as a registered nutritional consultant makes it tougher to recovery. An education of nutrition and a knowledge of eating disorders (and their consequences) both do not necessarily lead to a successful recovery. Personally, I also find the "atmosphere" in some parts of Vancouver to be the exact opposite of "conducive to recovery"; too much "health"-ism floating around.

You sound intent to recover, which is great. I'm so sorry to hear about your difficulties getting the gravity of your situation across. (The first doctor I saw here said I was going through normal university student stress, put me on birth control, and told me to pick up running.) Blood tests are an awfully poor indicator of illness, in the case of eating disorders. My blood work was all stellar for a very long time while I was dangerously underweight, so it is not just you. Do you think that IP is the only way to go for you at the moment? You say you have seen a psychiatrist - were they trained in treating eating disorders? Were they unhelpful? (Was it CBT? Or have you considered CBT? I don't know if it would help you, but I was treated with CBT after finally managing to get an accurate diagnosis. It's kind of unconventional and the Maudsley-ish approach that Gwyneth and leading hospitals use is much better for getting people out of danger quickly, though.) I wish I could help more...

silverbird, obviously as a "little kid" in comparison to you, I have no right to even try to offer advice, or perhaps even reassurance. All I know is that it's never too late to recover - "better late than never". Despite being much older, I don't think your kcalorie requirements would change. If you multiply out the daily kcalorie deficits out across all those years, I'd say you have a significant amount of kcalories to consume to heal inner damage. Again, though, what do I know? Maybe Gwyneth has some insight to offer... In the mean time, I will peek into the medical literature to see if I can find a case akin to yours!

I wish you both the absolute best! I am sure that recovery is possible... There are many obstacles, but there is surely a way to overcome them! (Sorry - I know that is so, so, SO much easier said than done - so much that I feel a bit silly saying it, so I hope you'll forgive me if I've just made a fool of myself!)

Sarah we do indeed sound alike. I'd be happy to get in touch. Should i just email you? Are you in BC? I've been to the EDC in Victoria if that is the place you're talking about. I didn't find it helpful at all. I'd be open to hear your suggestions but do keep in mind that finances are an issue for me--i can't afford to pay for a private therapist.

Couerage yes Woodstone does indeed have an age limit.....17-24 as a i posted. Hmm..sounds like we saw the same dietitian!! hehe I know what you mean about the atmosphere in some corners of BC--Victoria and Vancouver...it's all the same really...we're living in a sea of clean eaters and exercise fiends! The shrink i saw did not practise CBT--though i have tried practising CBT on my own (following a book) Are you fully recovered now Couerage? Are you still in BC?

Silverbird you and i are different. I haven't suffered from this my whole life. I got it in my 20's...but then recovered. I just relapsed 4 years ago. And i haven't gone through menopause yet. However i don't think you being near 60 separates you that much from the rest of us. There is a woman who posts on here who is i believe 65---she is following Gwyneth's prescription of 2500 cals per day for recovery and is doing well. You could pm her for advice. But the calorie requirements for you would be the same as for her--so just shoot for 2500.

Silverbird, i'm in the UK also. The UK practises harm reduction more than it is may be practised in North America and you will tend to see more people at very low weights at outpatients in the UK. It can be difficult letting go after some time. Not everyone will have the same issues and some people may need to work on why they in particular find it hard to move forward. As the will is there I hope you can at least improve on your situation.

You may want to consider starting a thread in the main boards as you may get more input in your own dedicated thread in the main boards. One thing with IP's in the UK, once you're 65 you cannot be admitted anymore to one. People are admitted over the age of 50 also I've been in treatment with people who were older. Although, it can vary of course on history.

Yes, just email me any time (click on my username here). I might not be any help at all actually..but i can tell you my experiences and bounce things off of you.Like you and Coeurage, I fell onto the "orthorexic train" only AFTER all the depression, anxiety problems, etc...like food never was and is not the issue...it was always other things...but i'm at the point now where my digestion and whole life is so off track, that food is this big focus (just SOMETHING else to "try" to get perfect).I saw nutritionists who ONLY made me more orthorexic-like...uh, no thanks...and then of course the lovely little blogs that can make you feel doubt, shame, confusion, guilt in 2 seconds flat...So, anyway, you can email me...and feel FREE to share you story, seriously. I'm open to hear it . I do think we sound a lot a like, though food fear is not my problem, but more "perfect" or how-to , etc (and of course i keep screwing up :)My whole life is basically on pause and I'm in huge debt and a body mess that I don't even know how to proceed anymore.But I've increased from what it was (I know how mind boggling it is....cause we eat "normal" compared to others or professionals or bloggers or something...or what not...but yet we are like this...so its like "it MUST be legitimately about raising the calories"...and that is so flustering on how or what not, etc...it seems so bizarre, yet i guess it is so SIMPLE...it really is about the calories.Now, if we could only shut off our minds + make our body the perfect digestive environments.

Pelajane, haha maybe we did! :P Or so I would think if there weren't sooo many dietitians in Vancouver alone (don't know about the outlying areas though)! Yes, Vancouver is Lululemon city, and Lululemon supposedly seems to represent yoga, exercise, and "healthy" eating all in one - so much so that anyone wearing Lululemon attempts to make sure they are perpetuating that representation... (And that's why Vancouver was ranked the worst dressed city in North America...) Sorry, that makes me seem like I have a grudge against it, doesn't it? XD Anyhow, I don't know if I could have ever successfully undergone CBT without my counsellor, so good on you for trying it by yourself, seriously. I don't know if there's such a thing as "fully recovered", but for the most part the illness (i.e., the eating disorder) is in remission for me and I'm actively trying to gain even more (despite being above the minimum BMI).

I can't believe Woodstone imposes age limits - or any residential treatment facility for that matter. What, do people think that this illness discriminates across age groups? Ridiculous... I would recommend the counsellor (therapist) that I saw, but as you have pointed out money as a problem, there probably is little point... Nevertheless - have you heard of the Cedric Centre? Although they do not put the focus on refeeding right away (which, in my mind, they certainly should in some cases), the therapy they used helped me grab a hold of my depression, anxiety, and stress. (Not saying that you necessarily suffer from any of those - unless I've missed something, and I may well have...)

Someone who may be more responsive to urgent emails - Dr. Carl Laird Birmingham, who works at Woodstone. He was actually the first physician I saw that actually realised I had a problem. I don't know if he's what you're looking for, but he's more likely to respond than Dr. Oz or Dr. Phil and he might be able to provide the professional advice you're looking for.

Couerage i know Dr. Laird Birmingham--he's one of my linkedin connections.Well rather i know OF him. Believe me i've done my homework in this whole area--there probably isn't anyone in BC involved in treatment that i don't know or haven't heard of. And i did email Dr. Birmingham and he didn't really have too much to say. I emailed him through Woodstone's site. I think he himself is annoyed that they've limited the age of admission to Woodstone. And yes i've also tried the Cedric Centre but could not afford their costs. IT sounds like you didn't do IP--what helped you to get motivated towards full recovery?

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