Mark has been in the miata community for many years and he is one of the few that have taken the miata to a level that many today have still been unable to reach,if this product did not work,he would not be using it or will he be selling it to others.

This is a point against what you're arguing for. Since none have been made, and only a rough prototype that can't even be shown has ever been hacked out, you can't say he's used it, tested it, that it works and that's the basis of his selling it to others.

Seriously - I'd be willing to go with everyone else's recommendation to just listen to the guy, but there are many valid points why appears to be less than ideal.

Flow data, pics, some reason to assume it's anything at all (we've been told it's dual feed, that's all we have to go on) would go a LONG LONG way to adding credibility. On that subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben

But if you didn't know him by his reputation, then I can see how easily this conclusion could be made. IMO, a couple of pictures and all will be well in the world.

indeed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike

Ben,I do agree that a few pictures will speak louder than words,but Marc did mention in a previous post why he did not post pictures up due to copyright issues & permission.

And I don't buy those reasons. What will they stall the competition? The couple weeks to make it? I mean, if he thinks the competition will be making one within a week, then it says they only put a week into developing it. If he thinks they'll need 6 months to make something like this, then I guess he's assuming that it'll be 6 month delivery times, since pics will be posted as soon as people get them. It don't add up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkulak

Please visit Http://www.K-Tuned.com as this is ETD's Honda K series site. M-Tuned is how they are going to start branding their Miata parts.

Reasonable. You should tell them to link it from the ETD site. It does appear shady, as an outsider looking in.

[quote[
If you are really quite worried you can call ETD at their shop number (905)953-9260 and ask them if they are making Fuel Rails for the Miata. Also when you purchase the rail on the site the money is sent to [email protected] Doh!
[/quote]
That's the most sense-making thing I've heard yet.

Quote:

Wow... I'm actually personally insulted... I've given a lot to the Miata community and never expected this low blow. Thanks to Spike, Ben and others who have vouched for me.

reasonable to be insulted. Then again, it's also reasonable for people to doubt - when all you have is personal references, then people need time to check them out - otherwise no one knows you from Adam.

All in all, a picture, a cad image, a list of specs like ID, something to tell people it's more than a name would go a long way.

And for the love of god, if EDT is making it, why don't they come here and say so? You can dodge all the requests because it's not you, but you claim special treatment because you're EDT. You either are or you aren't - playing both sides of the fence doesn't inspire confidence.

Apology accepted.... We have had forum software changes on miata.net, the old greddyturbofaqs.com and maybe even miataturbo (not sure but I was once signed up a long time ago). I used to be know as 450HpMiata and have been playing with these little cars since June 1998.

The web guy will be creating the new M-Tuned site (Like K-Tuned) but he has been a little busy. The page on M-Tuned was created to get this reduced rate group buy going. The minute the picture of the rail is posted the price is jumping up.

Purchase Order was signed and approved with the machine shop today. We have a go.. Bring on the rails

This is a point against what you're arguing for. Since none have been made, and only a rough prototype that can't even be shown has ever been hacked out, you can't say he's used it, tested it, that it works and that's the basis of his selling it to others.

Abe,I guess you did not read where he said he tested the rail on multiple miata heads to see if one rail will fit all 1.8 heads.

What Marc chooses to tell us,and what he's holding back is completely up to him,for all we know,there could be a few 1.8 miatas running around the Toronto area with this fuel rail right now,testing the rail for the last 3 months.

Marc,
Well put. It's certainly at the point where you are informed in making your choices, everyone's had their chance to point out what seem like mistakes to them. Good luck with this project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by spike

Abe,I guess you did not read where he said he tested the rail on multiple miata heads to see if one rail will fit all 1.8 heads.

Er, "tested" and "it fits" are different things. I'm selling new, pressed-wax pistons. I've installed them, and they fit on both the 1.6 and the 1.8. Please send your payments directly to me.

Quote:

What Marc chooses to tell us,and what he's holding back is completely up to him,for all we know,there could be a few 1.8 miatas running around the Toronto area with this fuel rail right now,testing the rail for the last 3 months.

Again, he said there was one prototype (maybe two?) and it was too custom and modified to show. So, unless he was lieing earlier (which I doubt!) there are no cars running around with this on there, and certainly none that are 100% equivalent to what you will buy.

Marc isn't doing anything evil that needs defense, and if you want to help him (don't think he needs it) at least make sense. :-) My point is he's not convinced me it's worth getting, and I pointed out some areas where I think other people would be missing this too.

Probably works out for him, he's better off flooding m.net instead of wasting his first run on the closed, smaller community here on MT.net. :-)

Probably works out for him, he's better off flooding m.net instead of wasting his first run on the closed, smaller community here on MT.net. :-)

Too funny.. Most of the sales to date have been from MT.net members and quite a lot of them at that. I've even had 2 shops/dealers tell me that the rail is priced too cheap, but I told them that we were aiming to bring a rail out with a similar price point to a GE Rail for a Honda, or like the price of the ETD K-Tuned.com Fuel Rail.

You sound like the typical m.net wine & cheeser,constantly wanting to continue to argue and not knowing when to shut the **** up.

And you're hoping I'll not call you on bullshit? At least Marc tells a consistent story. Like it or not, there's no real "holes" in it.

Oh, and I wouldn't buy any rail till I see something that says they work, at all.

Marc: I like that K-tuned site, plus the EDT logo on there lends an air of believability. Even in the worst case where dual feed rails are purely bling and no performance, it still sounds like a hell of a deal for a good looking rail for a very reasonable price.

That's not what I was saying, I was saying that (I assume) the first run is to get people using the rail and say how great it is so more people buy it at full price. Hence, you'd want to sell a lot on miata.net since there's a bigger market there.

Again, no ill-will, merely suggestions. It's pretty exciting, and after this weekend's testing (assuming I get some parts) I might be placing my own order. I just want to see that there's some measurable difference in a dual feed rail over my stock set up. I buy free flowing exhaust, but not helium filled tires. :-)

Again, no ill-will, merely suggestions. It's pretty exciting, and after this weekend's testing (assuming I get some parts) I might be placing my own order.

Try and find a Big Bore Billet Honda Rail to test against a Miata rail. I'm sure you will see a difference between the stock and the Big Bore Rail. The real evidence of improvement was when I was able to dial in a ton more timing with a Vishnu Rail on my Drag Miata, but it would ping with the stocker.

I think Jascon SBB had the same results with the Vishnu. Maybe he will drop in!

Try and find a Big Bore Billet Honda Rail to test against a Miata rail. I'm sure you will see a difference between the stock and the Big Bore Rail. The real evidence of improvement was when I was able to dial in a ton more timing with a Vishnu Rail on my Drag Miata, but it would ping with the stocker.

That I keep hearing, over and over - which is what's opening my mind a bit on the whole thing.

Can you tell us what the ID of your rail is? :-)

Anyway, I just need to make more ricer friends. I don't have access to such rails. I'm also curious about dampers and damper locations on the returnless 99's, but it's getting involved.

Spike, seriously, you're just being a tool. If you can't say it without swearing, go back to preschool. Marc and I are getting along fine, so stop "constantly wanting to continue to argue and not knowing when to shut ... up."

Abe and I have been chatting offline. He knows that nothing is shady and that we are just offering a better deal to the folks who pre-order. I'm hoping to have pictures of the ETD K-Tuned Honda rail next week just to give you folks some idea of what their billet rails look like.

Abe - IIRC the Bore of the Rail is 9/16 with 3/8NPT fittings tapped on each.

As you can see this is much bigger than the current competitive offers.

I have stayed out of this thread until just now for my own reasons, I just read it for the first time.
To all parties, I can see where things went sideways, everyone just take a breather.
Marc has been around forever, hell, he's been tuning Miatas before I even got my license, well, actually before I even moved to the states or started high school. ETD has been around for even longer than that.
Without a doubt, everything ETD makes so far is top notch, I have their rods, very nice!!! There is no question about quality!!! mmkay?
This is not their first rodeo, they have made rails for other cars, so lets not think that this rail is purely trial and error, they have done this before, just not for the miata.
If this rail for whatever reason does not fit, I am 100% ETD will make things right, I believe this firmly (and if not I do have CC protection).
If they say they are coming out with a rail that fits, guess what, it has to fit. Besides, do you all know how easy it is to make a ******* fuel rail?

As long as I have known of Marc, I associated him with ETD, if you are feeling nerdy, go search numerous Mnet and MTnet threads about him and his involvement with ETD. Hell, call John (@ETD)and ask him about Marcs credibility.

I believe this to such an extent that I decided to abort my fuel rail plans, even though it is known that the fuel rail fits a miata (94-97) and would cost only $80 shipped.

I am willing to vouch for Marc and ETD in case Marcs feedback score of 3 is not enough for you to trust him, my score is 18, what now?

Marc-thank you for making this happen, I know how busy the guys at ETD are and I know how hard you must have bugged them to pay this some attention. I know you are just trying to get as many people to do this because that is what you told John and used it as a barganing tool to encourage him to make the rail fast and cheap...and I don't balme you. I have been down this avenue before and know what it takes to get a new product developed and made, it is a huge risk for ETD and they are lucky that they can trust your intuition with the Miata market. Major props to you man.

Yes, I realize things could have been done differently, and that is why hope that this post will sooth out some of the negativity in this thread so far since I know that Marc is only trying to help every member on this board. He has been working on this for months, we all have been asking for a cheap, good, working rail, it is almost here, and now is the time to buy it. If you need/want a rail, get it now! This is a great price and you know you will get a great product.

I hope my word is good enough for most of you, I try to make everyone happy at all times (except that one time with spike and Jay, but I'm sure that thread no longer exists, bwhahaha) and my feedback speaks for itself.

***Also,
Thank you Ben, another reason why i absolutely love this place...