Saturday, December 11, 2010

By now you've probably heard of the "Grinch Alert" website put up last week by Robert Jeffress and First Baptist Dallas. It is a site where people can nominate companies who "halt the Celebration of Christmas" and those who "keep Christ in Christmas where he belongs".

This simple little website was a great investment for First Baptist Dallas and Jeffress - probably cost less than $1000 to put up, and it gave him free valuable face time on national media outlets (CNN, FoxNews, CBN) that would have cost hundreds of thousands of dollars! If the FBC Dallas marketing consultant came up with this idea, it is time for a Christmas bonus!

Just a few thoughts:

- if we Christians pass judgement at this time of year on a business by whether they've instructed employees to say Merry Christmas or Happy Holidays, we're ignorant boobs. The business is not there to spread the gospel. They are not there to keep "Jesus as the reason for the season". That is our job, Christian.

- where does Robert Jeffress think the "tithes" that flow into his church for the construction of his new campus and his "knock your socks off" computerized Jesus fountain come from? They come from businesses that create wealth for owners or shareholders who invested in the business, creating jobs for employees, and superior goods and services for customers - and they do it all in an intensely competitive market that will eat them alive if they falter. If a business believes it in their best interest to say "Happy Holidays" to be more inclusive of their clientele - who cares?

- contrast that to how megachurches like First Baptist Dallas raise their funds: by declaring that God requires their members to fork over 10% of their before-tax income with no real accountability in return on how the money is spent. Businesses raise their funds by taking inputs of capital, labor, raw materials, and converting them into goods and services of higher value...thereby creating wealth that enables them to hire employees who can then tithe. Mega churches - they just demand money by order of God Almighty, with threats of calamity if you don't comply.

- I have to point out: these businesses actually pay taxes at all levels of government. They pay local property taxes out the wazoo. They pay taxes on their profits. Their CEO's don't get massive tax exempt "housing allowances". Does Jeffress' mega church pay taxes on their revenues? Nope. How ironic that these taxes paid by business and not by churches are required in part because the modern church has mostly abandoned the call of Jesus himself to care for the widows and the orphans and the poor.

- And to top it all off: I dare say that the businesses on the Jeffress' Grinch list, like Nordstroms, Target and Macy's - they do more real ministry to help people in need than First Baptist Dallas or other mega churches. Look at the charitable work of these companies at their websites, supporting non-profit organizations with cash and volunteers. But that is of no consequence to the boob Christian who just wants the employee to say "Merry Christmas".

One of the most telling examples that shows the shallowness of this website was an exchange on CNN between Robert Jeffress and CNN's John Roberts (see video below):

CNN's John Roberts: There were two entitites that came forward to say that these claims against them [being on the naughty list] are inaccurate....one of them being the "Mi Cocina Restaurant"....they say they're being unfairly targeted - the staff is instructed to say 'Happy Holidays', but they point out they feed 600 children every year at their "Snowball Express" which is for the children of fallen warriors. So for someone to put them on the 'naughty list' seems a little [unfair].

Pastor Jeffress: Again, that is everybody's right of free speech, and free expression. But I said to one of the owners of Mi Cocina who called me, he said 'You know I'm a Christian and we do all of these wonderful things in the name of Christ', and I said 'Why don't you say Merry Christmas then?', and there really wasn't an answer.

Robert, there was no answer because you knocked his socks off with such an ignorant question! A Christian business owner, who does charitable work in the name of Christ, probably gives generously to his church, provides jobs to people who do give to their churches, feeds children of fallen warriors, does not owe you or anyone an answer as to why he doesn't say "Merry Christmas" at his Mexican restaurant! I say to the owner of Mi Cocina: God bless you for your successful business, for your charitable work, for the jobs you provide. Keep working hard, providing quality food at a reasonable price - and whatever you think is the best greeting this time of year for your employees and patrons, I'm all for it and I won't pass judgement!

But the good news: I'm happy to say most evangelical Christians I know absolutely do NOT think like Jeffress. They don't look to judge a business on what kind of displays they have, or based on a sample of one employee who might say "Happy Holidays". Most Christians understand that businesses are secular institutions that cater to a wide clientel, and they work hard to provide superior quality at the lowest price possible. Most rational, intelligent, clear-thinking Christians appreciate hard work, superior quality at a reasonable price, and friendly, helpful service.

And I'll take that any day from a business over a shallow "Merry Christmas", a greeting which might just be offered to me because the person thinks I'm one of those shallow, ignorant evangelical boobs who will pass judgement and put them on the FBC Dallas Naughty List.

42 comments:

Richard Jones
said...

The Baptist Faith and Message states that Scripture "...reveals the principles by which God judges us, and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried." There is no mandate in the Bible either by direct command or necessary inference to observe Christmas. The Christmas holiday is a relatively new tradition when compared to the 2000 year history of the Church. Many Godly Christians have refused to observe it in the past. Considering the holiday's history and present day commercialism who can blame any who do not care to celebrate it now? First Baptist Dallas has no Biblical basis for judging those who fail to observe Christmas in their prescribed way. To do so is legalistic at the very core.

Do we really think that the cause of Christ is advanced by singling out businesses for not being sufficiently 'Christian'? It reminds me of Islamic countries which have laws for disrespecting the prophet.

The AFA (American Family Association) has been making up this type of list for years... many, many years. So, this is no brainchild of Robert Jeffress.

However, the AFA, doesn't restrict its use of boycott's etc., to holiday greetings. They boycotted Ford Motor Company for years... and by all accounts it did have an impact on Ford. AFA goes after business who ACTIVELY support the gay agenda. Ford actually ran ads for their cars/trucks in a gay magazine that is routinely filled with pornograpic images. Even some Dealership owners wrote a letter to Ford, begging them to reconsider their advertising choices.

I participate in some boycotts where the company is actually encouraging homosexuality. McDonalds is on my list as are a few others.

Business owners can use whatever holiday greeting they want to and I'm not bothered by it. Their job is to make a buck and mine is to spend my money wisely.

Robert Jeffress surely knows about the efforts of the AFA. If he doesn't, as a Pastor he should. We don't need to be disparaging companies for their choice of greetings. The more I see of this man, the more I'm convinced he is yet another ego-driven-pharisee.

But... I must admit, I grew up during a time, when the Lord's Day was observed. Families met after church to have their Sunday meal together. No stores were open, no liquor sold, etc. I'm not at all sure that we've gained anything by turning Sunday into yet another shopping day.

All of this is stunt, pure and simple. Jeffress thinks the way to grow FBCD is to get his face on the news. He is spending all of his time and energy on HIS new building campaign and seeing just what his next move will be to get his face plastered on the news.I live in the DFW metroplex and I will tell you it seems that a week hardly goes by that he is not on at least the local news, if not national, for something he is promoting. It is all Jefress, all the time! And Christians and non-Christians see right through him and the church.First Dallas, like (apparently) First Jax and Bellevue are not the churches that they once were.

The Naughty and Nice list will be read every morning between now and Christmas at 7:40 a.m. CST, on KCBI radio. The list can also be found at www.GrinchAlert.com. The first business featured on Jeffress' "Nice List" is the Providence Bank in Southlake, where the CEO, who is also a member of Jeffress' church, has placed a nativity scene in the bank's lobby."

We almost act as if the Lord Jesus is NOT alive today. Can't He take care of such matters Himself if He deems it important enough to do so? I can't find it the Bible where He told us to do this kind of thing for Him . . .

BTW: For over a decade, the idea that I would receive gifts on YOUR birthday has troubled me quite a bit--so that I have told my family NOT to give me anything during our celebration of Christ's incarnation annually; on MY own birthday, I want ALL "the goods" (!) but, for Jesus on His birthday, I want for HIM to receive every gift (so, a donation to the SBC's Lottie Moon Christmas Offering--or contributions to another charitable organization, and/or volunteer work with Meals on Wheels, or the such like; you get the idea). To me, it just makes better sense--though it is, indeed, a different approach from the norm, and probably impacts retailers quite a bit if practiced widely . . .

I know of a church here in Jax that promotes something they call "Jesus at the top" each Christmas, that each family should give a huge gift to the church to meet their end of year budget shortfall....that giving to their church budget is the same as "giving to Jesus", when really methinks they are giving to the pastor and staff for their end of year bonus. ;)

Unbelievable...they attack the commercialization of Christmas all the while promoting the commercialiization of Christianity. How much more commercial can you get with a fountain with a 64 foot cross? The link that Watchdog posted "20 Reasons" is spot on.

We as church members, and especially church leaders, have no business expecting businesses to do the work we won't do.

Period. If we won't share the love of Christ with folks, why would we expect Target to do it? Businesses exist primarily to make money, though some do some very good things with their money: community giving, the Snowball Express example is great.

I will say this, though, about the "volunteering" thing: when I worked for a Fortune 500 company, every year the manager in charge of the volunteering report came around and ask every employee what types of community service they had done that year (and, yes, they used that term, and yes, we had employees who had done 'community service' involuntarily). The company then totaled all that work and reported it as "our employees donated x million hours of community service."

Most of us did what we did on our time, with our own commitments, and it had nothing to do with the company. And when the company asked for 'volunteers' for certain things, it was to allow us to take unpaid time away from work and go represent the company.

But, again, companies exist to make money.

Churches exist to help people have a merry Christmas by point to the Savior in word and deed. Not by boycotting a Mexican restaurant.

I admit that I prefer Merry Christmas over Happy Holidays and I always choose my greeting cards with a Christ centered theme. However, I realize that it is much easier to say Happy Holidays than "Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Kwanzaa" which all fall in the same time frame. I think it is fair to use this inclusive term when speaking to anonymous shoppers.HM

There are times Tom when I read your blog while drinking coffee. I know not to have a mouthful when I read such comments like this from Jeffress as he replies " Again, that is everybody's right of free speech, and free expression. But I said to one of the owners of Mi Cocina who called me, he said 'You know I'm a Christian and we do all of these wonderful things in the name of Christ', and I said 'Why don't you say Merry Christmas then?', and there really wasn't an answer.

In reading the words of our Lord Jesus found in Matthew 25:31-46....so where does Jesus put those that didn't say "Merry Christmas" and to what animal does he compare them to?

We have so much to be thankful for and if I patronize a place to eat and they ask if I would like to contribute to helping make available food so someone else can eat, then yes add it to my bill. Oops you didn't say the magic Merry Christmas um can I have a refund???

I admit that I prefer Merry Christmas over Happy Holidays and I always choose my greeting cards with a Christ centered theme. However, I realize that it is much easier to say "Happy Holidays" than it is to say "Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year and Happy Kwanzaa." I think it is fair to all to use this inclusive term as a greeting to anonymous shoppers during this Holiday season.HM

First Dallas Baptist is an embarrasment to other Bible believing Christians. Because of their shallow, judgmental approach to representing Christ, they should be put on the naughty list. Do you really think that Christ or Paul would engage in such hateful, condemning bashing of others? Here's a thought -- maybe people don't say Merry Christmas because they aren't actually born-again believers. If they aren't believers, shouldn't we share the gospel with them in a loving compelling way instead of ridiculing. The secular media has every right to scorn naive, selfish, thoughtless Christians like those in leadership at First Baptist Dallas.

The "Total congregational debt: $19,821,146 (financed at 4% interest for 30 years, monthly payments are $90,000 each--or $1.08 million per year, 8.7% of undesignated receipts [but probably funded via capital campaign fund; designated gifts totaled over $34 million in 2009-2010)" posted by me earlier: the debt payment mentioned is hypothetical; what FBCD pays on its debt annually/monthly, and those payments' terms, is not reported in the info--but a church I served as administrator had a $5 million dollar loan and its monthly payment was about $30,000 financed at 5.3% (5-year fixed, 25 year amortization). It appears that FBCD easily can affford mortgage payments via both designated and undesignated giving (i.e., it receives very much more money than actually needed for the ministries of a church its size)--which is reason to praise the Lord AND to steward those finances most carefully, which I assume it does (know the executive pastor there; seems like a good Christian man who knows his job well).

As I've stated before in general I personally like Jefress's preaching, but I think this is classic taking the eye off the ball. We who do celebrate Christmas should keep Christ in the holiday not secular businesses. Further, this naughty list will only alienate the church from the community and these businesses.

I don't want my church, for example, taking our time to do this kind of thing.

But I am glad that people are paying attention to this and making something of it.

There has been a concerted effort over the last 60 years or so, pushing on every front, to try and de-Christianize our society. Some groups that push for this do it in "test case" lawsuits. Some do it in economic boycotts, where announced or not. Others do it behind the scenes. Others do it individually, in offices, complaining of Christmas parties and the like.

Even Bill O'Reilly has focused on this for the last few years, and he is certainly no evangelical.

Our primary calling is not to see that the Christmas holiday is maintained in this country. As the country changes, our culture will, too, and that's o.k.

But I don't believe there is anything wrong with Christians being knowledgeable about which companies openly acknowledge Christmas, and which ones do not. Someone will have to take the time to do that. Who? I don't know. I guess whoever wants to. And I think it is fine, and perhaps smart, for Christians to thank and patronize those stores.

The fact that the stores pay taxes, as all businesses do, is not really germane to the issue of whether Christians should take note of and perhaps patronize commercial businesses that are explicit in their acknowledgement of Christmas. Nor is the fact that the businesses give to chartiable or humnaitarian causes, but that is a very good thing, and something that I would want to know generally.

Churches don't pay taxes because of the First Amendment. There are also specific exemptions, but they wouldn't have to pay the taxes anyway, in my opinion, if the exemptions were not there. The First Amendment is very clear - Congress (and now the States and local governments) shall make NO LAW respecting an establishment of religion...

We shouldn't let our disdain for bad churches or bad church practices cause us to look beyond one of the things that has made this country so free. The government cannot tax churches, and that keeps us all free.

Also, I cannot really see that the church has abandoned the widow and orphan, as you seem to. Churches have been active in those matters for a long time. The continued growth of governement over the last 120 years or so, at every level, and the government's entry into those fields has required more and more of people's discretionary income, which has limited the ability of the church to have funds to expand their work in these areas. I am not against government involvement. But there is only so much money.

Can we do better? Sure. But we can also be a little to broad and shrill in our judgments of churches and Christians.

Jeffries seems to be coming from a culture warrior position. It certainly is not the Gospel for store clerks to say Merry Christmas.

Is this a wise battle for a well known Christian theologian and pastor? I think not. I find it embarassing to even be associated with him.

The culture war is a losing game. In fact, events over the last 20 prove it did not work. In fact, it takes away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ and made it into something shallow like saying Merry Christmas and keeping the 10C in government buildings which is the Old Covenant.

Michael Spencer wrote about this and I agree with him. I think this culture war is actually making our churches more shallow as so many are spiritually dead.

We are to look different from the world for our holiness. Not for shilling in the media about store clerks saying Merry Christmas. It does sound a lot like some of the things Islam insists upon. I agree with that commenter.

This is not about offending anyone with our Christian heritage. It is about being wise where we pick our fights. I think Jeffries wants media attention. Now, if he went on the news to beg for the release of Chinese Christians, I would be right behind him.

I used to be a "keep Christ in Chrismas" kind of girl. But, then the Lord opened my eyes to the fact that Christ was NEVER in Christmas. Do some research. Find out about the history of Christmas. It is Christ-mass. Mass is the Catholic re-sacrificing of Christ. Almost everything to do with Christmas is pagan and has nothing to do with our Savior. December 25th was the time of the ancient, pagan Saturnalia festival. Read Jeremiah 10:1-5. I pray the Lord opens your eyes to see that we have resurrected an ancient, pagan idol and then think we have somehow "christianized" it. Disgusting. Come out from among them AND BE YE SEPARATE, SAYS THE LORD! Our Lord Jesus deserves much more than this.

America is the only country with true freedom left on planet earth. The credit should be given to the creator. However, If we do not wake up he will take that freedom away. Or maby FBCD, if they had a choice they would make you decissions for you. Naughty. Freedom is not free!

Demanding businesses to say a certain phrase is at first silly, then creepy.

Having so much time on your hands that you can make lists about which businesses are saying what simply reveals what's truly important to Christians. Surely they don't want to be perceived as being that thin-skinned. Show a lack of generousity of spirit or something.

Demanding respect does not get you respect. Earning it by what kind of person you are does.

uuuughhhh! It is sickening how much this pastor loves himself. He just oozes shallowness. Notice how the forehead doesn't move. at all! Sorry but I want a pastor that is above jamming his face full of botox.

"I used to be a "keep Christ in Chrismas" kind of girl. But, then the Lord opened my eyes to the fact that Christ was NEVER in Christmas. Do some research. Find out about the history of Christmas. It is Christ-mass. Mass is the Catholic re-sacrificing of Christ. Almost everything to do with Christmas is pagan and has nothing to do with our Savior. December 25th was the time of the ancient, pagan Saturnalia festival. Read Jeremiah 10:1-5. I pray the Lord opens your eyes to see that we have resurrected an ancient, pagan idol and then think we have somehow "christianized" it. Disgusting. Come out from among them AND BE YE SEPARATE, SAYS THE LORD! Our Lord Jesus deserves much more than this."

What you say is partially true, but is it any reason to give up on the celebration of Christ's birth?

Read the book "Pagan Christianity." Almost every tradition in the church comes from a pagan tradition (most from the 3rd century).

To be consistent you would also need to give up: the church building, the pastor, funerals, church dress, choir robes, paid clergy, the sermon, the choir, distinction between laity and clergy, the collection plate, current observance of the Lord's Supper and pretty much every other current church practice.

I was thinking on the way into work this morning. Wt is funny that we have here a blog and a host of anonymous responders dedicated to outing those who, in their opinion, are doing wrong. But they will dedicate a whole blog entry on the evil of others who open a web sit about those, who in their opinion, are doing wrong.

In the definition of the owner of this blog and his host of anonymous supporters,are their two set of shallow, ignorant boobs (I am sure glad I did not use the word "sociopath" for it must be the eviliest of evil words to label someone)?

I was thinking on the way into work this morning. Wt is funny that we have here a blog and a host of anonymous responders dedicated to outing those who, in their opinion, are doing wrong. But they will dedicate a whole blog entry on the evil of others who open a web sit about those, who in their opinion, are doing wrong.

In the definition of the owner of this blog and his host of anonymous supporters,are their two set of shallow, ignorant boobs (I am sure glad I did not use the word "sociopath" for it must be the eviliest of evil words to label someone)?

December 13, 2010 11:02 AM

Can't you just feel the Christlikeness from Estes, the paid professional Christian?

Remember, PAID professional Christians. Jon might get a better church or maybe a better paying SBC entity position when the powers to be in the SBC see that he has the "courage" to attack and insult the bloggers. Way to go Jon...good luck with that. They love sychophants and some are even rewarded as you know.

I was thinking on the way into work this morning. Wt is funny that we have here a blog and a host of anonymous responders dedicated to outing those who, in their opinion, are doing wrong. But they will dedicate a whole blog entry on the evil of others who open a web sit about those, who in their opinion, are doing wrong.

In the definition of the owner of this blog and his host of anonymous supporters,are their two set of shallow, ignorant boobs (I am sure glad I did not use the word "sociopath" for it must be the eviliest of evil words to label someone)?

"Demanding businesses to say a certain phrase is at first silly, then creepy."

Who is demanding that a business say any phrase? They can say what they want but if they don't want to say Merry Christmas there is a web site that comments on such and lets the people decide how to handle it.

christmas means the mass of Christ. it literally means to sacrifice/murder Christ. this is what catholicism is all about. the top of their hierarchy carries out a ritual sacrifice of Christ at every mass. then, they believe the wafer and wine actually turn into his body and blood which they then eat and drink.for this and many other reasons too numerous to leave in this short message, christmas is not something to be celebrated by believers.

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We're small, insignificant, and harmless. But we have a loud, piercing bark that seems to annoy those in mega churches the most. Not Kool-Aid drinkers, only fresh, filtered water, please; with Grape or Cherry flavoring from Walmart. "Let him alone; God hath bidden him to speak:"