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"Effective listeners remember that "words have no meaning - people have meaning." The assignment of meaning to a term is an internal process; meaning comes from inside us. And although our experiences, knowledge and attitudes differ, we often misinterpret each other's messages while under the illusion that a common understanding has been achieved."  Larry Barker

"Effective listeners remember that "words have no meaning - people have meaning." The assignment of meaning to a term is an internal process; meaning comes from inside us. And although our experiences, knowledge and attitudes differ, we often misinterpret each other's messages while under the illusion that a common understanding has been achieved."  Larry Barker

All this talk of tacos got me hungry. After years of knowing only Taco Bell and thinking I knew what a taco was I found myself in Mexico and had a taco ... exactly the same it was not in the slightest but it was sort of ...

I spent years reading here and there and when I actually felt someone who could do it ... ohhhh, that's what that mean't. Then when I could actually do it, cool. Then I could actually teach some else how to do it ... OK, boyo, that is step one - now onto the next 1000 steps.

Recall this progression? Obsessed with pronography but that first actual experience is way different. Then you meet that one person that takes you way out of you comfort zone with all that freaky stuff - at first it is not comfortable but eventually it's really nice. Then you work together taking your time really working on paying attention and reaching levels you never knew existed. Now when one of you says "strawberries" and the other person knowingly and playfully replies "oh, yeah baby" and those around you are slightly uncomfortable knowing some thing really special and personal just happened and they say "I like strawberries" without understanding they have no idea what you guys are talking about. And the all to real knowing looks you exchange and then place your focus and attention on them and say together "Ooooh, strawberries" and they get all shivery and nervous. Yeah, kind of like that.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Sigh...yeah, that's about what I figured. "I already do that! My teacher did the same thing! It's all the same! Your experience is just like mine the first time I saw aikido! There's nothing special about this stuff!"

I give up. If folks are going to ask for information from those who have taken the time to go and seek out the people who are showing these skills and then in the same breath dismiss our experiences out of hand as "yep, same stuff I do," then the conversation has been ended before it began.

I often hear the complaint from people that this forum sometimes seems like a "haves vs. have nots" when it comes to the IP discussions. Now I'm starting to see that it's somewhat true, but it's not because those of us who "have" (gone to see some IP folks and began training in it) are being elitists or stingy with the information. We might just be getting a bit tired of the "have nots" pretending to ask serious questions about our experiences, just to be told by the "have nots" that we didn't really have the experiences after all. You're effectively telling me that what I experienced is not what I experienced.

I should have just kept my fool mouth shut after all.

P.S. to Greg, your post above pretty much encapsulates what I'm trying to say, just more eloquently. Thanks!

I often hear the complaint from people that this forum sometimes seems like a "haves vs. have nots" when it comes to the IP discussions. Now I'm starting to see that it's somewhat true, but it's not because those of us who "have" (gone to see some IP folks and began training in it) are being elitists or stingy with the information. We might just be getting a bit tired of the "have nots" pretending to ask serious questions about our experiences, just to be told by the "have nots" that we didn't really have the experiences after all. You're effectively telling me that what I experienced is not what I experienced.

I should have just kept my fool mouth shut after all.

Your Kimura experience post was worth wading through all the posts in this thread. . Thanks.

All this talk of tacos got me hungry. After years of knowing only Taco Bell and thinking I knew what a taco was I found myself in Mexico and had a taco ... exactly the same it was not in the slightest but it was sort of ...

*some fruity stuffs deleted*

did you yell at the mexican in mexico for not making the taco right? did you tell them that their taco isn't the right sort of taco?

"Effective listeners remember that "words have no meaning - people have meaning." The assignment of meaning to a term is an internal process; meaning comes from inside us. And although our experiences, knowledge and attitudes differ, we often misinterpret each other's messages while under the illusion that a common understanding has been achieved."  Larry Barker

Sorry, Chris, but you and I have absolutely nothing in common to use as a baseline for establishing a foundation to support further discussion in this area. Regardless of what you are saying about a sincere interest in IP, you are coming across as arrogant, sarcastic, and with a presumption to the answers of your questions. As been mentioned, people that do have extensive hands on experience with this subject keep telling you that it is different than modern athletics and you keep insisting they are wrong because you lack the capability to listen and understand what they are saying. Contrary to what your ego may be telling you, those in the IP crowd are not here to convince you (or anyone else that does not want to listen) that they are right, but simply to let those that may be looking for something more in their training that there is something else out there and this is how to get it - as simple as that.

I wish you well in your MA journey, but I am afraid I have nothing to share with you any further; besides, I have a problem taking anyone seriously that over uses the word awesome' - it just does not sit well with my generation; I know it is a personal quirk, but it is one that has served me well over the years

I'm sure we have lot's in common that we can talk about. We are both martial artists, we are both Americans, we are both Aikiweb members. We have lot's of common ground, if you're interested in exploring that.

I understand, fully, the you need to experience something argument, or "IHTBF". I will try, in 2013 to make that a reality for myself. Until then I would like to talk about the things outside of experiencing an event. There are lot's of things we could talk about.

I'm sure we have lot's in common that we can talk about. We are both martial artists, we are both Americans, we are both Aikiweb members. We have lot's of common ground, if you're interested in exploring that.

I understand, fully, the you need to experience something argument, or "IHTBF". I will try, in 2013 to make that a reality for myself. Until then I would like to talk about the things outside of experiencing an event. There are lot's of things we could talk about.

I'm sorry if you feel I've slighted you.

I don't feel slighted in anyway, however, I am somewhat exasperated by your constant insistence to discuss a subject you have no experience in, coupled with a preconceived opinion that differs from those you want to discuss it with that do have experience in it. Of course, we may have some common ground from a general perspective of MA and as members of Aikiweb, but they are not the subjects you want to discuss - as said, we have absolutely no common ground in the subject of IP, and we never will until you go out and gain some direct experience with it from someone that does.

Let me try some other analogies/metaphors here that may be easier for you to relate to:

You come across as a child that is constantly asking his parents details equivalent to what is evolved with swimming, riding a bike, or driving a car - of course, some basic information can be provided (which has been given you already about IP) but true detailed discourse between the parties can not occur until the other party has gained sufficient practical experience on the subject. Or;

How about a more sophomoric one that may just relate better to you. Let's go back to our high school days (mine were in the late 60s and I imagine yours were somewhere in the 90s) anyway, every Monday morning the guys would get together and talk about their sexual conquers over the weekend (some may find this sexist, but it is not - it is just the reality of it at that time) During that time, you generally had two groups - there was the group (virgins) that were lying to themselves and others bragging about how lucky they got, when in realty, they never scored. However, they would continue with much detail on the subject trying to convince others that they knew what they were talking about and what it was like - their detail was always second hand information and mostly from others of the same group. Then there was the other group just sitting there smiling (for various and obvious reasons ) and not saying a thing; this was the group that did get lucky and they knew was it was like and what it was not like, but there was no sense talking to those that did not know because they just did not have enough information to conduct an intelligent conversation on the subject.

My advise to you, Chris, is to go out and get lucky. Then come back here with that smile on your face and we can continue the conversation. Any other action on your part can only mean two things: 1) you really are so dense that you just cannot hear what people are saying to you, or; 2) you really are a sophisticated troll. If the former, get some therapy; if the the latter, well, the only thing that comes to mind is from W.C Fields:
"Go away kid, ya bother me"

Let's go back to our high school days (mine were in the late 60s and I imagine yours were somewhere in the 90s) anyway, every Monday morning the guys would get together and talk about their sexual conquers over the weekend (some may find this sexist, but it is not - it is just the reality of it at that time) During that time, you generally had two groups - there was the group (virgins) that were lying to themselves and others bragging about how lucky they got, when in realty, they never scored. However, they would continue with much detail on the subject trying to convince others that they knew what they were talking about and what it was like - their detail was always second hand information and mostly from others of the same group. Then there was the other group just sitting there smiling (for various and obvious reasons ) and not saying a thing; this was the group that did get lucky and they knew was it was like and what it was not like, but there was no sense talking to those that did not know because they just did not have enough information to conduct an intelligent conversation on the subject.