Comments

DB
10:50am Fri 31 Jan 14

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.

SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.

I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.

The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.

Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.

The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.
SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.
I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.
The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.
Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.
The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.DB

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.

SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.

I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.

The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.

Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.

The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

Score: 10

captain_shamrock
12:05pm Fri 31 Jan 14

The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo.

Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays.

Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park.

.

The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo.
Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays.
Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park.
.captain_shamrock

The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo.

Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays.

Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park.

.

Score: 8

pinky107
12:11pm Fri 31 Jan 14

sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .

sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .pinky107

sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .

Score: 0

DB
12:14pm Fri 31 Jan 14

captain_shamrock wrote…

The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo. Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays. Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park. .

Absolutely agree. These problems are unvavoidable, but they are also unfortunately very common so SWT should be getting better at dealing with them rather than worse.

CR2 would be a disaster for anyone further out than Wimbledon. It will just give SWT another counter-party to blame for delays on already over-crowded lines with no resilience.

[quote][p][bold]captain_shamrock[/bold] wrote:
The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo. Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays. Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park. .[/p][/quote]Absolutely agree. These problems are unvavoidable, but they are also unfortunately very common so SWT should be getting better at dealing with them rather than worse.
CR2 would be a disaster for anyone further out than Wimbledon. It will just give SWT another counter-party to blame for delays on already over-crowded lines with no resilience.DB

captain_shamrock wrote…

The author of the UK rail blog is tweeting (@ukrailblog) that this morning's problems were exacerbated by a major failure to turn round trains quickly once they had arrived at Waterloo. Whilst suicides and power losses caused by lineside fires can't be predicted, SW trains must be held to account about whether they had operational failures at Waterloo that led to further avoidable delays. Today's events also highlight that Crossrail 2 is no cure for this area's fragile transport infrastructure. There's no point putting more trains ion existing track. We need resilience enabled by new routes to the proposed CR2 tunnel head at Rynes Park. .

Absolutely agree. These problems are unvavoidable, but they are also unfortunately very common so SWT should be getting better at dealing with them rather than worse.

CR2 would be a disaster for anyone further out than Wimbledon. It will just give SWT another counter-party to blame for delays on already over-crowded lines with no resilience.

Score: 7

DB
12:20pm Fri 31 Jan 14

pinky107 wrote…

sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .

I expect the problem is the performance targets that SWT work to. It appears that the longer-distance trains always take priority over services from the likes of Surbiton and Wimbledon, and I expect those services in turn mean more to the targets than Chessington & Hampton Court.

This is a disgrace really when you consider the volume of passengers that come from the stations between, say, Woking and Waterloo. This is the regulators problem as we can't really expect SWT to do anything except to maximise ther performance indicators they are measured by, even if they are meaningless in the real world.

[quote][p][bold]pinky107[/bold] wrote:
sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .[/p][/quote]I expect the problem is the performance targets that SWT work to. It appears that the longer-distance trains always take priority over services from the likes of Surbiton and Wimbledon, and I expect those services in turn mean more to the targets than Chessington & Hampton Court.
This is a disgrace really when you consider the volume of passengers that come from the stations between, say, Woking and Waterloo. This is the regulators problem as we can't really expect SWT to do anything except to maximise ther performance indicators they are measured by, even if they are meaningless in the real world.DB

pinky107 wrote…

sad to hear of the death . but as usual no doubt the chessington services will be cancelled as they always are , even if a dog **** they cancell this service . i was told by a south west train worker that the 2 routes they always cancell are hampton court and chessington , which should not be allowed as these routes are not the easiest to get to without trains and the passengers still have jobs and homes to get to and should have a reliable service .

I expect the problem is the performance targets that SWT work to. It appears that the longer-distance trains always take priority over services from the likes of Surbiton and Wimbledon, and I expect those services in turn mean more to the targets than Chessington & Hampton Court.

This is a disgrace really when you consider the volume of passengers that come from the stations between, say, Woking and Waterloo. This is the regulators problem as we can't really expect SWT to do anything except to maximise ther performance indicators they are measured by, even if they are meaningless in the real world.

Score: 5

kingstonpaul
12:55pm Fri 31 Jan 14

As a commuter on the Kingston line, all these issues frustratingly familiar. Especially half full trains trundling through as thousands of passengers left stranded as a result of previous cancellations.
But chaos theory tells us that however well prepared you are, whatever contingencies are in place, however well they may have been road-tested, these events are still reliant on human beings taking effective decisions. But we don't, we can't because fundamentally human beings in organisations like SWT are jobsworths with minimal powers of discretion.

As a commuter on the Kingston line, all these issues frustratingly familiar. Especially half full trains trundling through as thousands of passengers left stranded as a result of previous cancellations.
But chaos theory tells us that however well prepared you are, whatever contingencies are in place, however well they may have been road-tested, these events are still reliant on human beings taking effective decisions. But we don't, we can't because fundamentally human beings in organisations like SWT are jobsworths with minimal powers of discretion.kingstonpaul

As a commuter on the Kingston line, all these issues frustratingly familiar. Especially half full trains trundling through as thousands of passengers left stranded as a result of previous cancellations.
But chaos theory tells us that however well prepared you are, whatever contingencies are in place, however well they may have been road-tested, these events are still reliant on human beings taking effective decisions. But we don't, we can't because fundamentally human beings in organisations like SWT are jobsworths with minimal powers of discretion.

Score: -1

Tax_Bob
1:13pm Fri 31 Jan 14

DB wrote…

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.

SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.

I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.

The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.

Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.

The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.

[quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote:
Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.
SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.
I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.
The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.
Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.
The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.[/p][/quote]The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.Tax_Bob

DB wrote…

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed.

SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better.

I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes.

The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton.

Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning.

The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.

Score: 2

Mind the gap
1:39pm Fri 31 Jan 14

First time I used the train in months as I normally cycle in. Big mistake!

First time I used the train in months as I normally cycle in. Big mistake!Mind the gap

First time I used the train in months as I normally cycle in. Big mistake!

Score: 5

kingstonpaul
1:44pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Tax_Bob's experience at Clapham Junction is no better illustration of the 'jobsworth' mentality that pervades SWT. No one with any powers of discretion, no common sense. No one prepared to offer a solution that may not be governed by an 'offiial' procedure.

Tax_Bob's experience at Clapham Junction is no better illustration of the 'jobsworth' mentality that pervades SWT. No one with any powers of discretion, no common sense. No one prepared to offer a solution that may not be governed by an 'offiial' procedure.kingstonpaul

Tax_Bob's experience at Clapham Junction is no better illustration of the 'jobsworth' mentality that pervades SWT. No one with any powers of discretion, no common sense. No one prepared to offer a solution that may not be governed by an 'offiial' procedure.

Score: -3

DB
1:45pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Tax_Bob wrote…

DB wrote…

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed. SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better. I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes. The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton. Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning. The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.

Yep, it is a fundamental safety issue that must be addressed. Where is the harm in stopping these fast trains, especially if they have physically stopped anyway. What happens if someone is actually pushed on to the track and under a train?

Decades of under-investment have allowed the SWT service to fall to providing probably 50% of the capacity that it should do. I know that most people don't mind standing for these short suburban trips, but to have the trains as crammed as they are is another serious safety issue should there be a crash or fire on the trains.

It is amazing that the Health & Safety rules can insist on SWT closing lines for half a day for a lineside fire, but that these basic safety issues are allowed to go unchecked on a daily basis, escalating to crisis levels when there is a problem.

[quote][p][bold]Tax_Bob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote: Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed. SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better. I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes. The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton. Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning. The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.[/p][/quote]The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.[/p][/quote]Yep, it is a fundamental safety issue that must be addressed. Where is the harm in stopping these fast trains, especially if they have physically stopped anyway. What happens if someone is actually pushed on to the track and under a train?
Decades of under-investment have allowed the SWT service to fall to providing probably 50% of the capacity that it should do. I know that most people don't mind standing for these short suburban trips, but to have the trains as crammed as they are is another serious safety issue should there be a crash or fire on the trains.
It is amazing that the Health & Safety rules can insist on SWT closing lines for half a day for a lineside fire, but that these basic safety issues are allowed to go unchecked on a daily basis, escalating to crisis levels when there is a problem.DB

Tax_Bob wrote…

DB wrote…

Awful to hear about yet another death on the railway, and my deepest condolences the family of the person killed. SWTs response to these incidents was just pitiful, back to their worst. Obviously, with serious problems like this, passengers should expect delays and cancellations, but it could be managed so much better. I arrived at Surbiton station just after 8am, hoping to get the 8.08 service to Waterloo. This, and the next two fast services were cancelled, meaning that the next two trains that weren’t cancelled were too busy to get on. I eventually got on the 8.42 service, which arrived at Waterloo at 9.45. This is where SWT are clever, because they trumpeted 40 minutes delays to services, and the 8.42 WAS delayed by only 40 minutes. However, my original train should have got into Waterloo by 8.25, so my own personal delay was actually 80 minutes. The main problem for me is the white long distance trains were still flashing past Surbiton station half empty even with the severe crushing on the platform. The problems were so serious this morning that two of these half empty trains did actually stop on their way through, but only at a signal and the doors did not open. Conversly, the ‘fast’ trains from Surbiton that were still running were made to stop additionally at Berrylands and New Malden where no one could get on anyway because every last inch of space had been filled at Surbiton. Why are these white trains so sacred that they cannot stop at additional stations to relieve severe over-crowding? Obviously SWTs performance targets are skewed towards these services, and this must change. I am sure the existing passengers on those trains don’t want the proles of Surbiton, Wimbledon, Earlsfield etc crowding onto their quiet trains, but capacity problems mean needs must, surely? If they had stopped one each of these trains at Surbiton, Wimbledon and Earlsfield and another one to clear all of the smaller stations, it would have made a material difference to the problems this morning. The most annoying thing, as usual, is the cheerful guard saying ‘Thank you for travelling with South West Trains at the end of a journey like that. This was closely followed by a long queue at the ticket barriers to get out which was a very minor delay, but you would have thought they could have them open given that they will presumably have to refund all today’s tickets anyway.

The situation at Clapham Junction also wasn't helped by the fact that SWT refused to let the fast services that usually don't stop there let on passengers despite the train being held at the platform. In the tunnel between the platforms which also leads from the main entrances there was a serious risk of crushing as no-one could move with no trains to board and the platforms full and still the staff at the barriers (whose job it seems to be is to only check the tickets of people using the wide gate) didn't say anything or stop people going into the tunnel.

Yep, it is a fundamental safety issue that must be addressed. Where is the harm in stopping these fast trains, especially if they have physically stopped anyway. What happens if someone is actually pushed on to the track and under a train?

Decades of under-investment have allowed the SWT service to fall to providing probably 50% of the capacity that it should do. I know that most people don't mind standing for these short suburban trips, but to have the trains as crammed as they are is another serious safety issue should there be a crash or fire on the trains.

It is amazing that the Health & Safety rules can insist on SWT closing lines for half a day for a lineside fire, but that these basic safety issues are allowed to go unchecked on a daily basis, escalating to crisis levels when there is a problem.

Score: 1

Sophie P
1:51pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.

Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.Sophie P

Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.

Score: 9

DB
3:54pm Fri 31 Jan 14

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!
This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!
They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!DB

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

Score: 6

Daniel Dunican
5:44pm Fri 31 Jan 14

DB wrote…

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.

[quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote:
It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!
This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!
They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work![/p][/quote]why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.Daniel Dunican

DB wrote…

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.

Score: 10

wallygrumdrops
7:14pm Fri 31 Jan 14

How selfish people can be at times. Okay you've lost a few hours at work today. What about the poor person who has taken his own life and the Police who have to attend these awful scenes. Spare a thought you selfish lot!!

How selfish people can be at times. Okay you've lost a few hours at work today. What about the poor person who has taken his own life and the Police who have to attend these awful scenes. Spare a thought you selfish lot!!wallygrumdrops

How selfish people can be at times. Okay you've lost a few hours at work today. What about the poor person who has taken his own life and the Police who have to attend these awful scenes. Spare a thought you selfish lot!!

Score: 8

DB
7:20pm Fri 31 Jan 14

Daniel Dunican wrote…

DB wrote…

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.

I know it is not really simple, but how can it possibly take this long? I went passed Wimbledon (very slowly) this morning before 9am and there was no evidence of a fire still burning then and that was over 10 hours ago now. They announced on their website that it had been cleared by about 10.30, so why are we still having problems now?

I know there is the 'convenient' privatisation problem that allows SWT to blame Network Rail and vice versa and that the emergency services are really slow at the type of thing, but there is surely a limit to the recovery time? It seems to me if they were prepared to pay a bit more overtime and shift allowance it would get sorted out a lot quicker, even in spite of the limiting unionised workforce.

Either way, I'd be more happy if they would just implement some of the improvements in my first comment to improve safety and capacity in the mornings and they can work on improving the clear up after that.

[quote][p][bold]Daniel Dunican[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]DB[/bold] wrote:
It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!
This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!
They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work![/p][/quote]why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.[/p][/quote]I know it is not really simple, but how can it possibly take this long? I went passed Wimbledon (very slowly) this morning before 9am and there was no evidence of a fire still burning then and that was over 10 hours ago now. They announced on their website that it had been cleared by about 10.30, so why are we still having problems now?
I know there is the 'convenient' privatisation problem that allows SWT to blame Network Rail and vice versa and that the emergency services are really slow at the type of thing, but there is surely a limit to the recovery time? It seems to me if they were prepared to pay a bit more overtime and shift allowance it would get sorted out a lot quicker, even in spite of the limiting unionised workforce.
Either way, I'd be more happy if they would just implement some of the improvements in my first comment to improve safety and capacity in the mornings and they can work on improving the clear up after that.DB

Daniel Dunican wrote…

DB wrote…

It is worth noting for people trying to get back on SWT tonight that they are STILL reporting severe disruption and STILL blaming the same two incidents that happened over 8 hours ago!

This is another area where SWT need to improve. Using the same excuses all day in order not to increase overtime payments and shift allowances will not wash with commuters who are already fuming from mega-commutes this morning. I realise that they have to get the trains 'back in the right places' but is this is taking 8 hours then something is seriously wrong!

They are now also harping on about rain possibly causing further disruption. I wish I had this many excuses not to do my work!

why don't you volunteer to take control of their whole network. Its real life Its not like a hornby railway set. You can't just lift the train off the track and put it somewhere else. You have to also make sure train crews such as drivers and guards are in the right place which they would be badly displaced by the major disruption. Its not up to SWT to close the line that is down to network rail as they in charge of the track infrastructure, if they deem it unsafe to run trains such as the fire in Wimbledon right next to the track, the train companies have to suspend the service. think of it as a road and a bus company running a service on the road, they don't own or run the road only the buses that go on it. As for the person hit by the train that's also down to how bad it is. Remember police and network rail have to do a investigation as you don't know it was a accident or a crime scene. Its then up to the emergency services when they have finished the investigation and clean up to declare the line safe to reopen.

I know it is not really simple, but how can it possibly take this long? I went passed Wimbledon (very slowly) this morning before 9am and there was no evidence of a fire still burning then and that was over 10 hours ago now. They announced on their website that it had been cleared by about 10.30, so why are we still having problems now?

I know there is the 'convenient' privatisation problem that allows SWT to blame Network Rail and vice versa and that the emergency services are really slow at the type of thing, but there is surely a limit to the recovery time? It seems to me if they were prepared to pay a bit more overtime and shift allowance it would get sorted out a lot quicker, even in spite of the limiting unionised workforce.

Either way, I'd be more happy if they would just implement some of the improvements in my first comment to improve safety and capacity in the mornings and they can work on improving the clear up after that.

Score: -4

Cmbailey1973
1:02pm Mon 3 Feb 14

Sophie P wrote…

Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.

Think I was in the same train as you Sophie, but my biggest frustration was being told by the train guard that the delay was caused by a signal failure, not the real reason.

It was no wonder that the station staff at Clapham Junction when I had to change trains were being even more officious than usual about passengers standing behind the yellow line. To my shame I remonstrated with one if them but had I known the real reason why my original train was delayed I might have had more sympathy with them.

If south west trains can't get their story straight about what is causing delays then I think that speaks volumes.

[quote][p][bold]Sophie P[/bold] wrote:
Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.[/p][/quote]Think I was in the same train as you Sophie, but my biggest frustration was being told by the train guard that the delay was caused by a signal failure, not the real reason.
It was no wonder that the station staff at Clapham Junction when I had to change trains were being even more officious than usual about passengers standing behind the yellow line. To my shame I remonstrated with one if them but had I known the real reason why my original train was delayed I might have had more sympathy with them.
If south west trains can't get their story straight about what is causing delays then I think that speaks volumes.Cmbailey1973

Sophie P wrote…

Unfortunately I was on the train that hit the poor soul at Putney. We knew we were in it for the long haul when we stopped abrublty following the collision. Having stood already for an hour I was close to sitting on others' knees just to relieve my legs - so close to asking for a seat for 2 mins but would have been nice to be offered. Clapham Junction nightmare - queued to get out for 15 mins and bus to Northern Line. Nearly 3 hours Twickenham to City desk but at least my morning and day is nothing compared to the poor driver, the guy and his family.

Think I was in the same train as you Sophie, but my biggest frustration was being told by the train guard that the delay was caused by a signal failure, not the real reason.

It was no wonder that the station staff at Clapham Junction when I had to change trains were being even more officious than usual about passengers standing behind the yellow line. To my shame I remonstrated with one if them but had I known the real reason why my original train was delayed I might have had more sympathy with them.

If south west trains can't get their story straight about what is causing delays then I think that speaks volumes.

Ipsoregulated

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