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[quote user="jax5338"][quote user="Garbloz"]dont get me wrong hes good and in good scheme surrounded with good o players.

but they run up the stats. with the rules aside in the debate. peyton had the best year ever for a qb. they didnt run up the score when they had the game they rested starters including peyton and ran it to kill clock.

so sick of hearing about pompous brees n saints. they run up the stats even with crazy leads to make themselves look better.

but then again it might make them more money lol so i can't hate that[/quote]

while i dont think brees is a bad guy, they do run up the score and boost stats. i dont have a problem with it, as this is the NFL and they are all pros but it's true. a coughlin led team like the giants would never do it, but the packers, saints, and patriots have all done it this year. i actually think it's a good thing sometimes. it's gotta make guys feel good to just dominate a game.
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[quote user="Ntegrase96"]they ultimately win the majority of their away games, they appear far more human on the road.

If they knock off SF and GB on the road (assuming GB goes on) I'll get off their case.
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You can stay on their case, it doesn't matter to me.

And I think you proved my point - they are more than "average" and more than "merely pedestrian" outdoors which was the sentiment I was responding to.

"more human" on the road? I've no beef with that. I'd agree.

But they weren't an "average" offense in Lambeau on banner night. They were much more average - even at home - against teams this year than they were in this game. And they were less than average against the Bucs and awful against the Rams. Ugh.

So I'd take that Brees &amp; Co. from the outdoors/away game vs. the Packers than I would the Bucs outdoors/away game and the Rams indoors/away game. Heck, I'd take that performance over some of our indoors/home games.

It's one thing to say that the Saints are not as intimidating/efficient/prolific on the road. It's another to say they are merely an average outdoors team.

You said one, which I'm not disagreeing with. I was responding to another, however, and one I think is an overstatement.

That said, I'm not all that confident about a win in San Fran. Even less confident should we go back to Lambeau. But I'm more confident in the Saints in both of those games than a truly 'average' team.

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[quote user="CTLadyBlue"][quote user="poppa smurph"][quote user="Easy-Duz-It"]brees is the 5th best qb in the league. not the second or third. and that's excluding peyton. brady rodgers eli ben brees just my opinion. just sayin. brees is great, but a lot of it has to do with the system. and yes, they love to pad stats and run up the score.[/quote]It's a good thing we're all entitled to our own opinion.. Brees behind ELI???[/quote] Why not? Last I checked they've got the same number of championship rings and MVP honors. If the Giants were a pass happy team, Eli'd be ranked right up there with Tom, Drew and Aaron. But the Giants don't embrace that philosophy, however it doesn't negate that status Eli worked so hard (and took a lot of crap for over the years) to achieve. Maybe if Eli played in a nice, cozy dome he'd have better stats. Better still, I'd like to see how Godly Brees would've been if he had to play in sub-zero Lambeau Field for the championship. But if you're judging Brees' standing by stats, then that's yours (and all the other NFL pundits) opinions. Stats don't win championships. And, yeah, I'm kinda sick of the Brees love too. Don't get me wrong - he's aces at his position, but enough already. They nauseated me with the '300' chant two years ago and watching him cry with his little boy in his arms was a photog's dream to get the ladies' ovaries all twitching (and I'm a woman!). I can't put my finger on it, but there's just something about this guy that's so smug which he hides behind that 'golly, gee, good guy' image. Besides, no one does the 'aw shucks' better than Eli. I'm not saying Eli is that much better or worse, but I think he deserves to be right up there with Sir Drew[/quote]Not discounting Eli one bit when I question another posters opinion of Brees behind Eli. </p>

In my opinion what makes Brees a belt-knotch higher then Eli is overall accuracy. If you had the chance to watch every game over the course of both of their careers, I'm pretty certain you'd find Brees is a more accurate passer. Again, just my opinion.</p>

I'll whole-heartedly agree that there is nothing more sickening then bandwagon-fandom. Brees to an extent has received that type of attention with the likes of Brady and formally the Falcons QB Vick.</p>

But the networks aren't stupid. For every fan that may turn the channel when a spotlight falls on these people, another 3 tune in to watch.</p>[/quote]

Yes, he's far more accurate than Eli. Eli's best completion percentage over a season was right below 63%. Drew Brees broke the single season record for completion percentage in 2009 with 70.6%, and then broke that record this year with 71.2%.

In fact, Brees has had better completion percentage than 63% for 8 years now.

That's not just your opinion. That's fact.

Brees is a couple notches higher than Eli, and that's no discredit to Eli.

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[quote user="Tox"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]they ultimately win the majority of their away games, they appear far more human on the road.

If they knock off SF and GB on the road (assuming GB goes on) I'll get off their case.
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You can stay on their case, it doesn't matter to me.

And I think you proved my point - they are more than "average" and more than "merely pedestrian" outdoors which was the sentiment I was responding to.

"more human" on the road? I've no beef with that. I'd agree.

But they weren't an "average" offense in Lambeau on banner night. They were much more average - even at home - against teams this year than they were in this game. And they were less than average against the Bucs and awful against the Rams. Ugh.

So I'd take that Brees &amp; Co. from the outdoors/away game vs. the Packers than I would the Bucs outdoors/away game and the Rams indoors/away game. Heck, I'd take that performance over some of our indoors/home games.

It's one thing to say that the Saints are not as intimidating/efficient/prolific on the road. It's another to say they are merely an average outdoors team.

You said one, which I'm not disagreeing with. I was responding to another, however, and one I think is an overstatement.

That said, I'm not all that confident about a win in San Fran. Even less confident should we go back to Lambeau. But I'm more confident in the Saints in both of those games than a truly 'average' team.
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I've thought for a while now that San Francisco is the worst matchup for the Saints, seeing how the games in Candlestick (outside of the weather-- and I repeat, weather in GB).

I heard the defense is coming along, so it kind of puts a damper on my original prediction of a NO loss in San Fran, but still will be a tough matchup.

That said, play anyone this year at the Superdome and I think the Saints win. They're just otherworldly at home.

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[quote user="Ntegrase96"]I've thought for a while now that San Francisco is the worst matchup for the Saints, seeing how the games in Candlestick (outside of the weather-- and I repeat, weather in GB).

I heard the defense is coming along, so it kind of puts a damper on my original prediction of a NO loss in San Fran, but still will be a tough matchup.

That said, play anyone this year at the Superdome and I think the Saints win. They're just otherworldly at home.
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I think I am in the minority re: confidence this weekend. I was more confident about beating the Lions than the 49ers and it feels like a lot of other Saints fans feel the opposite.

For me, the difference is run O vs. run D. Brees has gotten a lot of press in recent weeks because of his passing but I think some of that has come from an improving running game. Thomas was, for me, a quiet MVP in the Lions game. Ivory ran hard, too. That really helped our passing offense recently. if the 49ers play that run stout, then the passing game becomes that much harder. And I'm not sure I see it. I love the interior of our offensive line but not sure how good our RBs will be if they get to the second level. The SF LBers are scary good.

I think we score mid 20s. Against our D, San Francisco could put up that many, too. On defense, the game changer will be pressure. The 49ers give up sacks but the Saints don't generate pressure well, even blitzing as much as they do. We need to get pressure on Smith - he ripped us last year for long drives. Think it'll be a close one.

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I think we score mid 20s. Against our D, San Francisco could put up that many, too. On defense, the game changer will be pressure. The 49ers give up sacks but the Saints don't generate pressure well, even blitzing as much as they do. We need to get pressure on Smith - he ripped us last year for long drives. Think it'll be a close one.
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That was pretty much my reasoning. It'll be tough to put up a lot of points on their defense and their offense is just good enough to put up points on the Saints defense.

Although like I said, the Saints defense seems to be coming along here in recent weeks.

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[quote user="Ntegrase96"]Although like I said, the Saints defense seems to be coming along here in recent weeks.
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and just as the running game has helped our offense in recent weeks, so too has our pressure on the QB helped the entire defense. I hoped/expected more against Detroit, but Stafford was getting that ball out really, really quickly. In the games before that, though, the Saints w ere getting more pressure than they were early in the season (excepting the SF exhibition game where our defense looked HoF-worthy and expectations were skyrocketed beyond reason). They played Martez Wilson more. More Junior Galette, whose specialty is pass rushing. And Cam Jordan had a couple games with QB pressure.

Even though the numbers might not show it, the NO secondary is quite strong. I really, really like them. I think Greer is an underrated corner. Patrick Robinson is coming along well - but still young and mistake prone. Porter is good. Johnny Patrick is a promising rookie. Malcolm Jenkins has underperformed a bit this year and he scares me at times, but he's good. Harper is a liability in pass coverage, but plays close to the line well.

If we generate heat on the QB, it helps our secondary out so much. DBs can only cover for so long.

LBers are just awful. We've got special teamers starting. We get no pressure from them at all, so it's up to the front 4. Smith, Galette, Jordan. Rodgers can push the pocket.

I hope we can get pressure - that makes our entire defense look much better. If they can do that this weekend, I think we can hold them to fewer points than we score.

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[quote user="Tox"][quote user="Ntegrase96"]Although like I said, the Saints defense seems to be coming along here in recent weeks.
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and just as the running game has helped our offense in recent weeks, so too has our pressure on the QB helped the entire defense. I hoped/expected more against Detroit, but Stafford was getting that ball out really, really quickly. In the games before that, though, the Saints w ere getting more pressure than they were early in the season (excepting the SF exhibition game where our defense looked HoF-worthy and expectations were skyrocketed beyond reason). They played Martez Wilson more. More Junior Galette, whose specialty is pass rushing. And Cam Jordan had a couple games with QB pressure.

Even though the numbers might not show it, the NO secondary is quite strong. I really, really like them. I think Greer is an underrated corner. Patrick Robinson is coming along well - but still young and mistake prone. Porter is good. Johnny Patrick is a promising rookie. Malcolm Jenkins has underperformed a bit this year and he scares me at times, but he's good. Harper is a liability in pass coverage, but plays close to the line well.

If we generate heat on the QB, it helps our secondary out so much. DBs can only cover for so long.

LBers are just awful. We've got special teamers starting. We get no pressure from them at all, so it's up to the front 4. Smith, Galette, Jordan. Rodgers can push the pocket.

I hope we can get pressure - that makes our entire defense look much better. If they can do that this weekend, I think we can hold them to fewer points than we score.
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Greer may be the most underrated corner in the entire league. A lot of Cowboys fans are excited about Porter possibly hitting the market since our secondary sucks, but the real star of the show is Greer. I've not been impressed with the secondary since Sharper left, but they aren't horrible either. Harper reminds me of Roy Williams but with slightly better coverage skills and a way bigger neck. I think Jenkins under performing is a result of trying to cover Harper's deficiencies, but a lot to be said about the pressure Harper can get on the QB.

You mentioned stafford getting the ball out quick, expect to see the same thing from Alex Smith. The offense they run is very basic, so I expect Greg Williams to scheme smith into a few interceptions.

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Sean Payton puts his career on the line to go out an get Drew Brees (who just recovered from what should have been a career-ending shoulder injury) when no one would take him, and together they take a team that were perennial losers (in a city that had just been all but destroyed) and then deliver their city a Super Bowl and consecutive winning seasons.

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[quote user="Ntegrase96"]Greer may be the most underrated corner in the entire league.[/quote]

I'm glad you said it. I agree, but when I say that most people say either, "Who?" or "The Saints secondary sucks so they can't have a good CB"

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]A lot of Cowboys fans are excited about Porter possibly hitting the market since our secondary sucks, but the real star of the show is Greer.[/quote]

Again, agreed. On both counts. I don't think we retain Porter. He's our 3rd best CB with Robinson's ascendance and improvement. And Johnny Patrick has really turned a lot of heads despite seeing little of the field because of his injury. Someone will pay more for Porter than I think the Saints will - we need to find room for Brees's and Nicks's contracts more than Porter (Colston, too, while I'm at it). I love Porter - for being a local guy and for his pick-6. And I hope he gets paid - and think he will. And he is a good CB. Sometimes I wish he'd tackle a bit better, but he's a gambler and it can pay off. He's also a bit injury prone. But he'd be a good pickup for any team needing secondary help. He won't be what Joseph has been in Houston, but he'd be an asset

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]I've not been impressed with the secondary since Sharper left, but they aren't horrible either. Harper reminds me of Roy Williams but with slightly better coverage skills and a way bigger neck. I think Jenkins under performing is a result of trying to cover Harper's deficiencies, but a lot to be said about the pressure Harper can get on the QB.[/quote]

The secondary was stronger when Sharper was back there. I do miss his experience and his ball hawking. And I also agree that Jenkins has been asked to do a lot. There are times when he's back there, by himself, because Harper is playing up closer. That's a lot to ask. Says alot about Jenkins that he's asked to do that in the first place, but like you said - it compromises Jenkins sometimes. Harper had the most sacks of a DB in - what - 30 years?

I would be proud of that if it didn't mean he was arguably our best pass rusher. A safety? *sigh*

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]You mentioned stafford getting the ball out quick, expect to see the same thing from Alex Smith. The offense they run is very basic, so I expect Greg Williams to scheme smith into a few interceptions.
[/quote]

I don't like what this means from our linebackers in coverage. Martez Wilson is our most athletic LB, but a rookie and hasn't played much. Casillas is hurt. The thought of Shanle, Dunbar, Herring in coverage? *shudder*

Anyhow, enjoyed the back-and-forth. Time to cut out a little early for the LSU game tonight.