these are both, particularly the second one, excellent, intelligent documents worth your time reading. they describe a serious terrible problem with grave consequences, which, among our other societal priorities, we should work hard to alleviate.

but that doesn't mean i can't also bend the topic in my private space for my own erotic consumption. the truth is that these accounts did find a place in my fantasphere, during a session i had a while after reading them.

what did i fantasize? pretty much that i was in the position of inmate David Pittman, the author of Memories of Rape. I found very intense his account of at first trying to fight the rapists, then realizing that fighting would only lead to his death, then ultimately resigning himself to it, and finally trying to make the best of it by finding his own pleasure in it.

i know that some who read this will say "i'd rather die than submit to that. i would fight to the death." well, ok, i understand that. but, not all would do that, and i think the course Mr. Pittman took was understandable. after having the shit beat out of him by three guys, and being knocked unconscious and then being held down for serial rape, and finally having his life threatened with strangulation, i understand the deep absolute fear that would move him towards resignation.

i also think it is fascinating how the account then moves towards almost compassionate rape. the part that triggered something deep in me was when he described the rapists as no longer fucking him violently, but "as they would fuck a woman." this seemed very realistic to me, and i had never heard this described before. also how the rapists would get "hotter" and even he would get "hotter" as a rape went on. that ultimately something perversely intimate was transpiring.

so that was my fantasy. that i was in prison and against all i could muster was "turned out" by a severely tough black criminal. (my apologies to african-american readers.) i had no choice but to do what he wanted. period.

the thing about this fantasy, in my view, is that it is clearly homosexual. but it also alleviates, for me at least, my standard "homophobia" (apologies to gay readers). the fact is, i am not attracted to gay guys (sorry). but, i am attracted to guys. not enough to have relationships, etc, or mess with my fantastic marriage. but enough to fantasize about. but fantasizing about gay guys doesn't work for me, because i am not attracted to them, and don't really want to have sex with them. i also don't really like how they would be attracted to me, ie, me being a man.

but the prison rape scenario solves that. everybody involved is straight. it is just a consequence of desperate circumstances that the sex is happening.

this frees me to think about what it would be like to be fucked by a man, a straight man, like he fucks a woman. (sorry gay guys, please don't take offense!)

in my mind... it felt fucking incredible. the thing is, this fantasy goes very well with the aneros (sorry everybody!). the first reason is mental. to really get off on your aneros you have to let go of all inhibitions, and let yourself be pleasured. there are of course many ways to do this, but one is through a fantasy that will turn you on and explain the feelings you are having in your ass. the second is physical. the simple physics of a hot cock fucking your ass.

i have explored many fantasies that explain the pleasure i am feeling in my ass. by the way, how about sharing yours...

but this one had some very specific advantages:1. i was forced to succumb

2. the guy doing it was extremely physically able, ie, he could manipulate my body in positions he desired (like men can do w/ slender women), and could deliver an athletic fuck.

3. not only was i forced to succumb, but the guy made me do something very particular: he wanted me to give him an "ass job" (like a blow job but with my ass). he forced me to use my ass to give his cock pleasure, rather than him pounding me. i had to do much of the action, was forced, on penalty of brutality, to ride his cock with my ass, and squeeze and squirm on it. didn't want to. had to.

4. there were these specific feelings he forced me to give him (he was using me and this was what turned him on): - he wanted to be all the way in, deep, and have my "pussy" lips work the root of his cock and his balls. - he wanted my ass walls to stroke his fully stiff shaft - he wanted my g-spot, all the way in, to stroke his straining cock tip. - he wanted to mash his pelvis against my ass cheeks. - he wanted me to (dry) come, because it reminded him of his women, and because the contractions made him hot.

the sum of these things was to hit all the spots that the aneros (progasm) stimulates: my anus (with his cock root and balls), rectum (with his shaft), prostate and g-spot (with his insistent cock tip) (this one drove me mad), and my cheeks (with his thighs).

the result was that i was coming and coming against his cock, balls and body. he was intensely full and near coming and gave me all he had too. it was in service of his straight and selfish needs, but, we both got off intensely on it.

here is my question to you: what other experiences can so intensely explain the pleasure of the aneros? is there anything more ultimate than a serious fuck? (i mean in the sexual department, as opposed to the ethereal "calm seas" kind of orgasmic experience.)

i have also asked before: does it seem possible that our ass is actually evolved to receive a cock? why does our ass have this ability to give us so much pleasure, pleasure that is almost completely undiscovered in usual hetero relationships? is it possible that in our earlier primate days this kind of male-male sex, either consensual or not, was more common?

Cool provoking post. When you build a fantasy, you build one :!: :!: -- makes my small orb & dancehall fantasy pale into boredom. On my ano-rectal (non-journey) sessions I reach for that sensation and know from whence it cums. (therefore answering your second question -- probably yes, since we started as a hunter gatherer species and, (if one believes the petroglyph art) those forays were male endeavors.

I tend to agree in that homosexuality isn't an issue in this context. Some modern cultures feature casual male-male sexual relationships that are devoid of intimacy, emotions or love.

On the relationship, "... as if he were f***ng one of his women." which I infer means either a conjugal relationship with that/those women. Might be more realistic if it were a pick-up or a prostitute where intimacy/love wasn't involved.

I've been working with some Progasm mods that get me into the sensations you speak of. Nice since I can feel the sensation without being tempted to go bi.

i have also asked before: does it seem possible that our ass is actually evolved to receive a cock? why does our ass have this ability to give us so much pleasure, pleasure that is almost completely undiscovered in usual hetero relationships? is it possible that in our earlier primate days this kind of male-male sex, either consensual or not, was more common?

I'm stretched to find an example where homosexual intercourse would aid an organism in survival or procreation, which I believe is the prerequisite for evolution. :?

It could very well be the opposite - since there hasn't been any evolutionary pressure for separating the human GI tract any further from the reproductive organs, we've been left with a literal back door for stimulating the erogenic nerves and membranes beyond what was necessary for the progress of evolution.

first, as far as somebody else sharing your anal pleasure with you, technically, there really is no substitute for a cock. the reason is that a cock is the only thing that fits in there and also is wired for erogenous stimulation. only a cock can join with the ass in a pleasure feedback loop.

second, continuing with that line of thinking and extending it to the evolution discussion, when i was getting my imaginary fuck i felt like the cock's tip (actually, the aneros) was meant to be hitting my spot in there. it felt like my spot in there was designed to receive this pleasure, and to give it to the cock's tip. it did not feel like an evolutionary accident. why else have a g-spot deep in there??

evolution works in mysterious ways, and design can emerge for the flimsiest reasons, not necessarily an obvious direct connection to fitness.

the article describes the state of the science around female arousal. one section describes the difference between male and female's measured physical responses to sex videos. males are very "category specific," ie, straight guys don't get hard when seeing dudes having sex, and the opposite is true for gay guys. further, their mental responsiveness mirrors their physical response. females, on the other hand, got engorged and lubricated for videos of all types, regardless of their orientation. their mental arousal, however, was specific to what turned them on.

the theory to explain this is that a woman's vagina prepares itself physically for sex when she witnesses any sexual activity of any type, as a preparedness for being raped, to protect the tissue.

of course that is somewhat speculative, and the evolutionary purpose of ass erogenousness is by its nature speculative.

another part that is speculation is that i have no idea if a real cock could actually produce the pleasure i was imagining from the aneros. gay guys on this forum have reported that it is rare for a cock to give them dry orgasms. but, what i was imagining sure felt real.

second, continuing with that line of thinking and extending it to the evolution discussion, when i was getting my imaginary fuck i felt like the cock's tip (actually, the aneros) was meant to be hitting my spot in there. it felt like my spot in there was designed to receive this pleasure, and to give it to the cock's tip. it did not feel like an evolutionary accident. why else have a g-spot deep in there??

"Accident" is probably not the best word, I'd personally speak of indifference. Also notice how much the shape and material of the Aneros products differs from actual male genitalia - I really don't see any plausible connection.

Have you tried a dildo? It would help make your fantasy more--shall we say--palpable. I have a collection of several which I take out periodically, when I wish to be penetrated. It is, I should imagine, a very different feeling from the Aneros. I combine the dildo with nipple play, but it rarely results in orgasm, strangely, even though the sensations in my anus are intensely pleasurable. It's like the circuits get overloaded. But I still get a lot of pleasure out of it. I strongly recommend the silicone dildos by Vixen Creations.

I scanned the long article but didn't find and reference to Bonobos using sign language to communicate to a potential partner what position they desired for sex. I'd noted that in a magazine article several years ago. Cool. 8)

Anyone seen mention of this? And is the language uniform across the species or just with a particular conclave/tribe?

And, NO, I'm not into beastiality; however, when I was a kid, our cow did wink at me during morning milking. :shock: :roll:

It seems obvious to me that male-male sex was common thousands of years ago. The sodomites of the bible, who the Jews and their war god despized, and the story of Sodom and Gamora, which tells of how a sexually immoral city was basically "nuked"(Ever wondered how that was possible, "Angels" or messengers destroying a city with fire out of heavenor the sky), naturally come to mind.I think the truth of the matter is that gay men are free men. We dont naturally hate other men , or fight them to the death for resources and women. We definitely have minds of our own and this I think is the main reason we are hated, and hunted by religious fanatics. It's sad to me, that in Darwin's post, that the gay sex fantasy had to be a rape scene, but that is not surprising since god's gift the evangelical's want to label gay guys as pedophiles and rapists. It's social engineering at it's best. Evangelicals promote the guys that want to champion women and "lord over them", and then stomp out all the others. Anyways, Darwin, the gay sex fantasy is surely effective at creating an awesome sexual experience especialy the more you can "believe" it. I used to imagine a few of my best friends getting it on, and ofcourse I prefered the submission to other scenario. What I have found interesting, after using the sunmission scenario so many times, is that the guy I would normally use as the thing I submitted to seems to become less powerful, while it becomes obvious that there is a greater archetype behind the man. I suppose it could be "Creator", or cosmic consciousness which I am becomming aware of. So, here it is...my rant.

It seems obvious to me that male-male sex was common thousands of years ago. The sodomites of the bible, who the Jews and their war god despized, and the story of Sodom and Gamora, which tells of how a sexually immoral city was basically "nuked"(Ever wondered how that was possible, "Angels" or messengers destroying a city with fire out of heavenor the sky), naturally come to mind.I think the truth of the matter is that gay men are free men. We dont naturally hate other men , or fight them to the death for resources and women. We definitely have minds of our own and this I think is the main reason we are hated, and hunted by religious fanatics. It's sad to me, that in Darwin's post, that the gay sex fantasy had to be a rape scene, but that is not surprising since god's gift the evangelical's want to label gay guys as pedophiles and rapists. It's social engineering at it's best. Evangelicals promote the guys that want to champion women and "lord over them", and then stomp out all the others. Anyways, Darwin, the gay sex fantasy is surely effective at creating an awesome sexual experience especialy the more you can "believe" it. I used to imagine a few of my best friends getting it on, and ofcourse I prefered the submission to other scenario. What I have found interesting, after using the sunmission scenario so many times, is that the guy I would normally use as the thing I submitted to seems to become less powerful, while it becomes obvious that there is a greater archetype behind the man. I suppose it could be "Creator", or cosmic consciousness which I am becomming aware of. So, here it is...my rant.

I probably shouldn't be posting in this thread. ;) Anyhow, I'm curious if the fantasy would work as well with a very aggressive woman with a strap-on? Women generally do have rape fantasies, it's like the #1 female fantasy, I think. Not that women actually do want to be raped of course, or condone rape. Fantasy and reality are very different.

I think the P-spot is as random as the clitoris or men's nipples, just an evolutionary happy accident.

Why do we fantasise? - I would postulate to fulfil our true desires. This may clash with our concious logic but remember our ego dominates our true self. My definition for ego is - ego is formed by the greater society on the individual and is what the individual then project to function within the society regardless of his true self. Greater society starts with the government, churches, media ... and ends within the immediate family.

The question now is what is better - carry on fantasising or try and live out a fantasy? If one carries on fantasising one could stress up, could start taking medication, drugs etc, could become very unhappy and possibly explode later in life and live out the fantasy regardless of consequences.

So my advice is live out your fantasies and if you cannot live them out at least talk about them to a trusted person., airing them anonymously is the first step in the right direction. The more we can be our true self and leave our ego aside the happier, calmer and balanced we are.

Women generally do have rape fantasies, it's like the #1 female fantasy, I think. Not that women actually do want to be raped of course, or condone rape. Fantasy and reality are very different.

In the rape fantasy I would presume the raper is strong, well endowed, good looking etc, having all the desirables for successful evolution - the rape is the self defence against reality, one does not want to hurt or put in question a weak and lesser endowed partner that does not fully sexually satisfy.

I don't think it has anything to do with one's partner. They don't do anything for me, so I don't know. I like being in charge! :) But I think women start having them at a young age, from what I've read. It's more an excuse simply to be sexual, I think, not any sort of "alpha male" thing.

Transcending the boundaries of social conditioning...the pleasure of raping or being raped, fucked into submission.....the point where the pain becomes a pleasure....resistance becomes allowing.....when the brutalised opens up and desires more....

Aneros, barely legal, use it while you can! ;)

It's something that's naturally pleasurable, and of course the will to power, where the dominated reap the reward....you rape what you sow.....teachers fucking their pubescant children, it shouldn't be allowed, for if it were allowed it wouldn't be half as exciting......"Mea Culpa judge, I thought the Aneros was just an analtoy, boy was I wrong "

Darwin, your fantasy, desire and success provoke a lot of thought around male sexuality and the aneros experience and practice. Above, I cited our genetic inheritance and the behaviours of our closest cousins; the chimps and bonobos. In other post in this forum, I have repeatedly cited the anthropological/cultural studies, particularly Jared Diamond's The Third Chimpanzee and Marvin Harris's Our Kindhttp://www.aneros.com/forum/strap-on-recommendations-t2093.html?highlight=marvin%20harris . These all illustrate the plasticity and full spectrum sexual response potential of human males. Our sexual responses and inner life/fantasies are largely, if not exclusively, culturally conditioned and developed.

In rumel's great thread about getting the Aneros word out to other males http://www.aneros.com/forum/ideas-for-spreading-the-word-t3837-15.html , newguy8762 and I cited studies showing 60% of heterosexual males enjoying anal stimulation by their partner, and that 98% of all males having fantasies of being penetrated by another male, with responses to their fantasies ranging from desire to fear.

Interestingly, when I discussed this a few years ago with a widely knowledgeable UK gay men's healthcare worker, he cited data that penile/anal intercourse is a minority practice in the gay male community, while mutual anal fingering is a virtually 100% activity.

That we have culturally used sexuality as both a power tool and power toll, to build competing tribes/nations of human energy slaves, to establish role-playing dominance/submission, to celebrate/repress, to elevate and humiliate by defining and valuing certain behaviours and devaluing others, where there is a price to be paid for adopting this or that sexual behaviour/practice, is one of the major shifting defining variables of human cultures from place to place and era to era. What have power elites extracted as tolls from those they have devalued?

What do our collective male sexual experiences we document here illustrate about this particular socially determined set of male life behaviours?

Thanks again darwin for your explorations and documentations/sharing with us all.

all the best finding of your own natural male being and freely creating your own cultural male being through 2010 and ever onward all

The journey took a turn (twist ?) over the holidays. I modified a Progasm that 'nailed' a new spot I'd never explored. That gave rise to, "so this is what it's all about and what the other lucky SOBs have been experiencing all along."

Got carried away for several sessions into what I'd term as plain old prostate fucking. Much like I was doing when I first got going with Helix eight months ago; however, this time I'm more skilled than I was in May and June. This was far more powerful. Sensation that made me crave another 1/8" of penetration yet, "scared me shitless" to try it. -- body quivers had nothing to do with the pleasure in this drill --- it was pure nerves and terror. This was a form of edging that was scraping the walls of the envelope.

Led me to believe the CIA guys have it all wrong with the aversion approach to prisoner questioning. Pleasure should work far better. Give a guy a session like this and then offer to craft another if he spills the beans.

I got into a three-day conscious consideration of Darwin's prisoner-rape dream.

As someone who never gave a second thought to being bi, I got into a mindset of, "where's a good top when you need one."

Then came a phenomenal soul searching of my orientation, my being, my faith, my history etc. I was surprised to find a thread of "moral rectitude" or prudishness buried in all this. Perhaps a 'furball' from the past that's caused recent shouting in my sleep.

Finally decided that I'd gone overboard on semen conservation, and my brain had relocated to my prostate. Still not having sex, I "fought" my way out of this mental sack-of-crap with a couple of back-to-back mb sessions.

"Bottom" line though is that discovering something new can trigger some serious soul wrenching.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! I am a long time Aneros user (about 2+ years) but I have not posted in a long time. Rooks post has got me "C-U-R-I-O-U-S" as to HOW he modified his Progasm so that it NAILED a NEW SPOT for him??!?!?

I can sometimes bring on SUPER-O's but they are not consistent so I am "C-U-R-I-O-U-S" as to if this MOD would allow my Super-O's to be more consistent for me. I do know that STRESS has a lot to do with whether or not I am able to relax enough into a SUPER-O but just thought ROOK's MOD might be a good ASSist( pun indented LOL)!

With regard to the original Post I am Gay and I often have a fantasy about a hot guy FORCING me to do things to him and/or with him!!

Anyhow, I'm curious if the fantasy would work as well with a very aggressive woman with a strap-on?

This is about the most dearly-held fantasy that I have. I have never had a chance to act on it; none of the women in my life have had such a proclivity, despite hints on my part. Generally, when I am using my mgx, my held is filled with images of a beautiful woman on top of me.

Anyhow, I'm curious if the fantasy would work as well with a very aggressive woman with a strap-on?

This is about the most dearly-held fantasy that I have. I have never had a chance to act on it; none of the women in my life have had such a proclivity, despite hints on my part. Generally, when I am using my mgx, my held is filled with images of a beautiful woman on top of me.

Over here in Sweden we have a quite big BDSM and fetisch community called Darkside (http://www.darkside.se/)Maybe you can find something such in your area?

Over here in Sweden we have a quite big BDSM and fetisch community called Darkside (http://www.darkside.se/)Maybe you can find something such in your area?

I'm sure that I could find some way to fulfill this fantasy, but I'm not interested in doing anything that falls outside of my marriage vows. My wife's sexuality does not include such kinks, so it is going to continue to be just a wonderful fantasy.