TMC wrote:Hey, easy there, mate. I agree with most of the things you're saying about society having to change and not allow those in power to do whatever they want. I even agree with the need to "revolt", but talking about how certain people, no matter how selfish they look, "need to be killed" is just too extreme.

Migya, mate, you know I love you, but there's no way to justify those comments, and further comments like those won't be tolerated on the board.

We were/are having a conversation on this subject. I'm not making threats to any one individual, but am calling it like it is. If that isn't allowed on the forum now, especially a comment as broad as this one, as I didn't point out anybody on the forum, then please say so. You have to look at the cotext I wrote that in, that being that those i'm talking about being the orchestrators of the deaths of many. The death penality does exist in the U.S. as well, so the killing of killers is not foreign to those that live there

Well, it is offensive to me.

I'm not saying everything is great. Of course change is needed, but force has to be applied at the barest minimum possible in every situation, and it certainly doesn't require comments like "they have to be killed".

In any case, any kind of change will have to take place without violence, because if not, that very same violence will neglect any development for society. We'll have to find other ways to revolt, or nothing good will come from that.

Thing is, in every revolution there's violence, always is. The government doesn't want to be overthrown and sends the police and army to fight for it. It takes police and soldiers/officials in the army, to turn against the government and admit there has to be a change. The way the situation in the world right now is, there will be alot of violence and death for any change to happen, even if there is no major proteting, there will be killing on the part of the governments against the people, it is happening all the time

there will be no violent overthrow. It would be almost impossible in this country. The military are already prepared for such scenarios and would crush any revolt in less than a day. Those days are over. It has to come from grass roots non violence.

One thing that would really get their attention is periodic worker shut down.
Everyone take the day off on the same day. Watch the profits go pfffftttt...
and the owners squirm..

yep. killing is the ideology of the past. and seeds killing because those who will kill will take the power and the cycle will not break. BUT - there is a difference between violence in the situation of defense and violence in situation of offense.the defending part should never be reponsible for violence they were provoked to commit, because they were put in the position a) to lose freedom and self-governance (which is a dignity of any life whatsoever) or b) fight back and commit murders.
anyway, the only way to change the world is to get more and more people educated, be self-reflective and CREATIVE force of the society. to do that, yes, governements must lose more and more power so it can be distributed through actual communities, organisations and so on. so, the point for people, is to demand more self-governance, to get involved in matters politico-economical in local areas. start from scratch.
as for 'world is corrupt'. well, it is. you know, i'm from lithuania. a small, potentially completely unharmful country, but why did we have an illegal CIA prison (for apparent reason of dealing with terorists) right in our land? strange, but things like that are of such a terrible sign that **** is bigger than poo. imagine, living in a country that is far far away from indulging in any kind of terrorism, being unharmful politically wise, and bingo - we plant a CIA prison, and no one ''knows'' right in your backyard!
so, the 'behind the scenes' policy rates are atrocious and this really must somehow be stopped. but not by killing but educating people so there will be less and less tools for those with predator ideologies to work with.
to hell with power and money.

TMC wrote:Hey, easy there, mate. I agree with most of the things you're saying about society having to change and not allow those in power to do whatever they want. I even agree with the need to "revolt", but talking about how certain people, no matter how selfish they look, "need to be killed" is just too extreme.

Migya, mate, you know I love you, but there's no way to justify those comments, and further comments like those won't be tolerated on the board.

We were/are having a conversation on this subject. I'm not making threats to any one individual, but am calling it like it is. If that isn't allowed on the forum now, especially a comment as broad as this one, as I didn't point out anybody on the forum, then please say so. You have to look at the cotext I wrote that in, that being that those i'm talking about being the orchestrators of the deaths of many. The death penality does exist in the U.S. as well, so the killing of killers is not foreign to those that live there

Well, it is offensive to me.

I'm not saying everything is great. Of course change is needed, but force has to be applied at the barest minimum possible in every situation, and it certainly doesn't require comments like "they have to be killed".

In any case, any kind of change will have to take place without violence, because if not, that very same violence will neglect any development for society. We'll have to find other ways to revolt, or nothing good will come from that.

Thing is, in every revolution there's violence, always is. The government doesn't want to be overthrown and sends the police and army to fight for it. It takes police and soldiers/officials in the army, to turn against the government and admit there has to be a change. The way the situation in the world right now is, there will be alot of violence and death for any change to happen, even if there is no major proteting, there will be killing on the part of the governments against the people, it is happening all the time

Not true. Not now, at least, because that was the case in the past.

Problem is, people don't really see other options than to comply with what's already in place and what our politicians demand of them.

It's a problem of culture, it's a problem of responsibility, it's a problem of accountability, and that kind of revolt can be achieve, quite easily in fact, as soon as everybody realizes that there are other options, that there's a political party that won't indulge in their own needs (which is to stay in power) above those of the population.

In short, it's a problem of the whole society (it's lack of political development, more than anything). Those that are in power right now using the power to their own benefit are nothing more than a virus. The real problem is that nobody cares.

I think Pat was spot on... this country is so tied to its economy that even a work stoppage of 1 day would be catastrophic in this country. Stocks would crash, owners would freak out, it would be a mess. I smell a new facebook group/event thingy for the future.

Going with what migya is saying. Violence is always a last case scenario for anything. Unless its absolutely necessary, then it shall be used. As much as I feel as this country (and others) are tanking, we are not close to a stage where someone/s should be killed. At least, thats what I think.

Every single one of your replys to me and other is chalked full of "if you only knew the truth" or "you need to read up on this" or "you are being ignorant". It is a staple of ALL consipiry theorists.

The notion that WE are evolved and everyone else are lemmings. It is just plain INSULTING.

You say you know the "truth". How migya? How do YOU know the "truth"? Because Jessie Ventura says so? Because there are articles online saying so? That is such BS.

I am not saying there is not any truth to these but the bottom line is we dont know for sure. What makes Ventura any more credible that other former or current people in the know that says stuff like Ventura is talking about is NOT true?

You are no different than the people you are criticizing. They choose to believe there is not some grand conspiracy and you choose to believe there is. But that does NOT MAKE IT THE TRUTH. And to condone the killing of people based on unsubstantiated writings and before any sort of attempt at prosecution through the legal system is reckless.

How do you know for SURE what Ventura or any of these other people's agenda is? How can you be certain this is not a conspiracy in of itself in which there is a group of wealthy people putting this together to try and "frame" the government that it is corrupt so they can overthrow the government and seize power for their own agenda? To me, that is just as plausible as other theories I have heard.

Again, we just dont know for sure. You chose to believe one side, others choose to believe the other, and still others dont care. But to say that I dont know the truth, or am ignorant, or its like "talking to a wall" when you talk to me is completely INSULTING!

Money Morrow wrote:there will be no violent overthrow. It would be almost impossible in this country. The military are already prepared for such scenarios and would crush any revolt in less than a day. Those days are over. It has to come from grass roots non violence.

One thing that would really get their attention is periodic worker shut down.Everyone take the day off on the same day. Watch the profits go pfffftttt...and the owners squirm..

That's an idea, but how do you get enough people on the same page to do that?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a huge problem with jobs being shipped out of the U.S.? Isn't there a huge decrease in jobs and industry in the U.S.? If so, what do you think about that. The companies are already losing money then if that is the case and if it is the case, worker strikes and stoppages might not have much power

Mr. Crackerz wrote:Going with what migya is saying. Violence is always a last case scenario for anything. Unless its absolutely necessary, then it shall be used. As much as I feel as this country (and others) are tanking, we are not close to a stage where someone/s should be killed. At least, thats what I think.

The first step is getting alot of people to take action, even taking action yourself with spreading the word that action needs to be taken and that the best way to start is to write to local counsel officials (not directly insulting them is a must, but showing anger and total dislike for what is going on) and then protesting at government places, then public places to try to get support.

Thing I see though, is that the governments are using violence on the people, for such things as protesting and that makes it very difficult to take action. What person would risk being killed or hurt to protest, while not considering having to get in a violent situation. That is where the governments have the big advantage, in that they are willing to use violence and pretty quick sometimes, and people really aren't. It is unfortunate, but that seems to be the case, at least sometimes

Every single one of your replys to me and other is chalked full of "if you only knew the truth" or "you need to read up on this" or "you are being ignorant". It is a staple of ALL consipiry theorists.

The notion that WE are evolved and everyone else are lemmings. It is just plain INSULTING.

Hey, I don't mean to insult, but it is true that if you have not studied up on a particular subject, you will not know much about that subject. I would just like people to do a little bit of reading up and then see what they think. I feel that this subject is more important than all others, as all others fall under it

bada wrote:You say you know the "truth". How migya? How do YOU know the "truth"? Because Jessie Ventura says so? Because there are articles online saying so? That is such BS.

I am not saying there is not any truth to these but the bottom line is we dont know for sure. What makes Ventura any more credible that other former or current people in the know that says stuff like Ventura is talking about is NOT true?

Firstly, how is what articles say BS? There are many articles that are BS, like main stream media articles, many of which are BS, but to say all articles are BS is ignorant, sorry but it is. I hope that it is not what you are saying and think.

As for people that come out and say things against the governments and the elite - What do they have to gain exactly. They have far more to lose with going against the majority belief. Ventura looks like a clown in the eyes of many for doing that conspiracy theories series, a real idiot in the minds of many high ranked people in business and government, but he didn't give a rat's, he felt that saying and showing what he did was far more important than the opinions of the others. Take Alex Jones for example; that man has been abused and picked on for over fifteen years, as has his family and he still keeps going. He has gained close to nothing, but hurt and hard times. I value that above any "prestige" or famous fashion or fad.

As for we don't sure for sure on these topics - Depends how you mean. There is more than enough information out there that shows and proves what I've said before TEN times over. It's up to you and whoever to look at that information. I'm sorry, but I see saying that you just don't know like someone saying that you just don't know whether the lion in the den will maul you if you go in the den, it is just plain disregarding what's in front of you

bada wrote:You are no different than the people you are criticizing. They choose to believe there is not some grand conspiracy and you choose to believe there is. But that does NOT MAKE IT THE TRUTH. And to condone the killing of people based on unsubstantiated writings and before any sort of attempt at prosecution through the legal system is reckless.

WHAT DOES MAKE IT THE TRUTH is the information I've found, read and studied! What makes anyone think that someone coming to the conclusion that someone in position of power is corrupt is ignorance. I mean that, as ignorance means you just haven't studied the situation and the subject. I'm ignorant on many subjects and I admit that, but NOT ON THIS ONE!

As for prosecution, are you kidding me. That's funny somewhat. I'll just say that the people in power, be it government, finance etc, are very "divergent" of the laws that the average shmo is ruled by. Since these people finance/bribe governments and those in the legal system, they won't be prosecuted any time soon, I'll just say it like that

bada wrote:How do you know for SURE what Ventura or any of these other people's agenda is? How can you be certain this is not a conspiracy in of itself in which there is a group of wealthy people putting this together to try and "frame" the government that it is corrupt so they can overthrow the government and seize power for their own agenda? To me, that is just as plausible as other theories I have heard.

As I stated above, most of the people coming out with these pieces of information have close to nothing to gain and close to evertthing to lose. Many scientists that have come out against the Global Warming theory, and there have been thousands, have been disgraced and not taken seriesly in the science field any more. They have lost much and gained nothing, except self satisfaction and peace in their minds, which really means more than anything else.

Maybe Jesse Ventura is looking to run for governor one more time and maybe he wants to go even further and be dictator of the U.S.

bada wrote:Again, we just dont know for sure. You chose to believe one side, others choose to believe the other, and still others dont care. But to say that I dont know the truth, or am ignorant, or its like "talking to a wall" when you talk to me is completely INSULTING!

Again, only educating yourself on the subject can allow you to make a proper conclusion. Almost everyone that does the research puts the pieces of the puzzle together and realises what's going on. Feeling insulted aside, a man like you is to good and worthy to not know the facts of this subject and it would be good to hear from you on most of it, after you do some research

migya wrote:Hey, I don't mean to insult, but it is true that if you have not studied up on a particular subject, you will not know much about that subject. I would just like people to do a little bit of reading up and then see what they think. I feel that this subject is more important than all others, as all others fall under it

How do you know I have not read up on this? You dont have a clue. You are basing that on the fact that I dont agree with your position. You know, it IS possible that I have read everything that you have read but come up with a different opinion. That does not make me ignorant.

migya wrote:Firstly, how is what articles say BS? There are many articles that are BS, like main stream media articles, many of which are BS, but to say all articles are BS is ignorant, sorry but it is. I hope that it is not what you are saying and think.

Never said all articles are BS. I said it is BS to automically assume anything that Ventura says or any internet article is THE truth. You have nothing to prove that they are true any more than any other article against your position is. It is just the way you choose to believe.

migya wrote:As for we don't sure for sure on these topics - Depends how you mean. There is more than enough information out there that shows and proves what I've said before TEN times over. It's up to you and whoever to look at that information. I'm sorry, but I see saying that you just don't know like someone saying that you just don't know whether the lion in the den will maul you if you go in the den, it is just plain disregarding what's in front of you

bull crap! you have shown me nothing that PROVES ANYTHING. You have shown me theories. I have read and researched many things. I use it all as criteria to form my opinion of what is MY truth. But I never push that truth on anyone else, unlike yourself who says anyone not believing what you do is either ignorant or stupid.

Unless you PERSONALLY were witness to some of these things, you have no way to know whether they are telling the truth or what they are saying is really happening. It is only your faith in what they are saying that makes it valid for you.

migya wrote:As for prosecution, are you kidding me. That's funny somewhat. I'll just say that the people in power, be it government, finance etc, are very "divergent" of the laws that the average shmo is ruled by. Since these people finance/bribe governments and those in the legal system, they won't be prosecuted any time soon, I'll just say it like that

Yeah, so lets just KILL PEOPLE! KILL KILL KILL!!! How about we actually use our evolved brains that separate us from the animals you wish to mimic.

migya wrote:Again, only educating yourself on the subject can allow you to make a proper conclusion. Almost everyone that does the research puts the pieces of the puzzle together and realises what's going on. Feeling insulted aside, a man like you is to good and worthy to not know the facts of this subject and it would be good to hear from you on most of it, after you do some research

Ps: No Migya, Im not calling you mental because I havnt read enough of your amazing research that ONLY YOU have seen and taken the time to search for.

Im not calling you mental because Im "one of them" and Im trying to shut you up.

Im calling you mental because this is just absolutely insane!!! youve been going on like this f*cking messiah for last 5-6 months or so, acting like you are the only one who knows anything about these things............its just insane and is now laughable how you just constantly repeat and contradict yourself.

You know, constantly saying that "You havnt seen what Ive seen" and "I know the truth" is EXACTLY!!!!!!!!! like and what the people you think your "fighting" against do............that is another reason it is hillarious and insane.

And to keep failing to realise the hillarity of Jesse Ventura being one of your "credible" source...........when you talk about puppets and sh*t!!!!! I mean f*ck..............Ive seen some of those shows, and its the same stuff I was reading and talking about years ago............but now it has a "credible" face huh? give me a f*cking break.

Seriously man, if you could just talk to people about these things and ask questions, rather than barking dictator esque calls to educate and "learn the real truth like I have" stuff...............then we would respond............as it stands, you lose more and more credibility every day and less and less respect.

However, Im sure, like the other nut-bars/people who have turned into nut-bars we have/had here with their own agendas who cant deviate from them one little bit.............you will simply keep repeating yourself over and over and not acknowledge or answer anything.

migya wrote:Hey, I don't mean to insult, but it is true that if you have not studied up on a particular subject, you will not know much about that subject. I would just like people to do a little bit of reading up and then see what they think. I feel that this subject is more important than all others, as all others fall under it

How do you know I have not read up on this? You dont have a clue. You are basing that on the fact that I dont agree with your position. You know, it IS possible that I have read everything that you have read but come up with a different opinion. That does not make me ignorant.

I can't say anything that will make my side of this discussion the wholey correct one and I won't try to do so any further. I have read much and believe that it is impossible to come up with any other conclusion than the world is run by a few families, predominantly involved in the banking industry. You are entitled to your opinion

bada wrote:

migya wrote:Firstly, how is what articles say BS? There are many articles that are BS, like main stream media articles, many of which are BS, but to say all articles are BS is ignorant, sorry but it is. I hope that it is not what you are saying and think.

Never said all articles are BS. I said it is BS to automically assume anything that Ventura says or any internet article is THE truth. You have nothing to prove that they are true any more than any other article against your position is. It is just the way you choose to believe.

I will have to post information regarding what I've been talking about, not just the video clips I've posted. I said I would do it, but never got enough time to sit down and post all or close to all the relevant information, as i don't like to give half the information or even 90%, but close to everything if not everything

bada wrote:

migya wrote:As for we don't sure for sure on these topics - Depends how you mean. There is more than enough information out there that shows and proves what I've said before TEN times over. It's up to you and whoever to look at that information. I'm sorry, but I see saying that you just don't know like someone saying that you just don't know whether the lion in the den will maul you if you go in the den, it is just plain disregarding what's in front of you

bull crap! you have shown me nothing that PROVES ANYTHING. You have shown me theories. I have read and researched many things. I use it all as criteria to form my opinion of what is MY truth. But I never push that truth on anyone else, unlike yourself who says anyone not believing what you do is either ignorant or stupid.

As I said directly above

bada wrote:Unless you PERSONALLY were witness to some of these things, you have no way to know whether they are telling the truth or what they are saying is really happening. It is only your faith in what they are saying that makes it valid for you.

I also didn't personally witness the JFK assassination, 911, even the nba finals, so I don't know whether what took place actually took place, that's by that reasoning.

There is no video footage, to my knowledge at least, of any of this, referring to the elite (as they are called) talking with presidents, which they dictated to, manipulating anything. There just isn't.

What is required is what makes humans special, intelligence and common sense. I see it that if a few individuals own the largest banks and are the richest people on the planet, even if they aren't publicly said to be so, and they are involved, be it as owners or financers (usually listed as supporters by some) in other big companies, the financing of wars, are part of secret societies (like Freemasons) that make it known their beliefs and those beliefs are shady and so forth - My common sense leads me to the conclusion that those few individuals are controlling things in the large part in this world and that their intntions are sinister and therefore not for our betterment.

Again, I'll have to compile information and post it, just give me time as I want to do it right and also have life committments

bada wrote:

migya wrote:As for prosecution, are you kidding me. That's funny somewhat. I'll just say that the people in power, be it government, finance etc, are very "divergent" of the laws that the average shmo is ruled by. Since these people finance/bribe governments and those in the legal system, they won't be prosecuted any time soon, I'll just say it like that

Yeah, so lets just KILL PEOPLE! KILL KILL KILL!!! How about we actually use our evolved brains that separate us from the animals you wish to mimic.

Yea, over exaggerate my stand point.

I explained myself in this thread recently

bada wrote:

migya wrote:Again, only educating yourself on the subject can allow you to make a proper conclusion. Almost everyone that does the research puts the pieces of the puzzle together and realises what's going on. Feeling insulted aside, a man like you is to good and worthy to not know the facts of this subject and it would be good to hear from you on most of it, after you do some research

Research complete. No change of opinion.

Then please explain what information you have seen/read. I'll be interested to know

Migya... i just want to say that im a tip of the iceberg kind of guy... i watch fox news and choose to believe what they tell me with a grain of salt.. im not really going to go out of my way and read into a lot of the crackpot conspiracy theories of the world (cause it doesnt really affect the 26 year old living at home with his parents)

But as a Australian on this board, id really like you to apologize to our American counterparts for accusing there country being like Nazi Germany... i am for one very disappointed as a Australian for one of my fellow counterparts making those kind of accusations.

Sure people might rise up and have a word or 2 to say about whats going on... and sure there governments might choose not to listen, but its pretty lowball to say that all these soldiers fighting wars in the middle east are fighting for nothing... (u can choose to believe the iraq war was a false lie based on the weapons of mass destruction) but there:s still a lot of bad **** going on in Iraq and Afgahnistan where a person can:t speak up in what they believe in for fear of being executed or supressed.

I admire the people of America for having a voice and not being afraid to speak there minds... i surely wish Australia could be more like the States as our current politicans cant even tell the Japanese Government that Whaling is illegal in our waters and that if they dont stop then our military power will be used.

I think sometimes mate that your to outspoken to have been a moderator on this board, you say some really controversial ****... i know that without the moderator responsibility you can speak freely and not be this Chameleon type sitback and watch type of guy... but i think bada and a lot of others could of really taken offense to that comment and theres a reason why your copping a lot of heat at the moment.

But in saying that, id be happy to watch some of your links / read your materials and get back to you with my thoughts on the whole underground of nutcasism (i seen a lot of nuts in my days) and i do value the fact that your asking people to see the information in front of them before they come to any conclusions (u just need to pick your words better sometimes)