I've been a newspaper columnist, sportswriter, magazine freelancer, owner of several blogs, and one-time-only contributor to Southern Funeral Director magazine. I was a Pulitzer finalist for commentary in 2005 and have a story in "Best American Sports Writing 2012." Pretty sure I'm the only writer to cover the Super Bowl, Bassmaster Classic and National Spelling Bee in the same calendar year. Email me: tomlinsonwrites@gmail.com.

13 Ways Of Looking At The Atlanta Braves' Move To The Suburbs

Turner Field is already 17 years old, which apparently means it's time to spend $$$ for a new stadium in Atlanta. (Getty Images via @daylife)

1. The Braves are moving to Cobb County, in the northwest suburbs, and if you know Atlanta you know the layers of meaning in that. Coming up I-75 from downtown, you cross into Cobb over the Lester and Virginia Maddox Bridge. This is Lester Maddox. Cobb County famously rejected the MARTA rail system, at least in part over worries that “those people” would ride up into Cobb and, I don’t know, steal TVs and haul them back home on the train. Cobb is more diverse now — it’s not much different than the rest of suburban America — but it is 66 percent white, and Fulton County — which the Braves are leaving — is 47 percent white. In a city known as a black mecca — not to mention the city of Hank Aaron — the move carries some symbolic weight.

2. But those people in the northern ‘burbs buy more Braves tickets than anyone else, by far — here’s a heat map of ticket buyers.

3. In Atlanta, many people define their lives by the Perimeter, the I-285 loop that circles the city. You hear people talk about Inside the Perimeter or Outside the Perimeter as separate countries. Part of that is racial, but it’s also cultural and philosophical and a bunch of other -al words. Outside the Perimeter is a sea of Home Depots and brick houses with bonus rooms. Inside the Perimeter is where you find organic Thai food and you might have more than the average number of piercings. I know people Outside the Perimeter who never go Inside the Perimeter except for sports. Now the Braves are moving Outside the Perimeter. That’s a huge cultural shift.

4. Braves president John Schuerholz, in his video message to fans, calls the new stadium “a short distance from downtown Atlanta” and all I can say in response is HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I guess it would be a short distance if you had a jetpack. But trying to get from downtown ATL out I-75 to the other side of the Perimeter for a 7:30 game … make sure your SUV is loaded with provisions. It’s gonna be the Oregon Trail out there.

5. That I-75/I-285 interchange is one of the worst in Atlanta already. Once the Braves start playing out there in 2017, expect a lot of people that first season to arrive around the fifth inning.

6. The new stadium is going to be smaller than Turner Field, and that actually makes sense, because despite the Braves’ incredible success over the past 20 years, people still don’t come to the games. The Braves won 96 games last season — one shy of the best record in baseball — but the team was just 13th in attendance. If you sort by percentage of seats filled, the Braves drop to 21st. So a stadium of 41,000 to 42,000 — about 10,000 seats smaller than the Ted — is like lap-band surgery: It’ll feel more full even if the same amount of stuff is in there.

7. However, if the Braves start losing … with a downtown stadium, people working in downtown Atlanta might stick around after work, grab some dinner and go to a Braves game. But get off work and do the commuter death march to Cobb to watch a losing team? No way.

8. A new stadium also surely means ticket prices will go up, especially for the most choice seats. That does not mean those seats will be filled. Exhibit A — all those cushy, empty seats behind the plate at the new Yankee Stadium.

9. Cobb County is likely to spend $450 million to build the stadium (with the Braves chipping in $200 million). This is the same county that cut 182 teachers from its school system back in the spring. This sort of thing has happened so many times that it’s almost no longer news. The new Atlanta Falcons stadium is expected to cost $1.2 BILLION, although the Falcons have promised to come up with most of that money.

10. The Georgia Dome (the Falcons’ current home) has been around since just 1992, and the Braves didn’t start playing at Turner Field until 1997 (it was built for the ’96 Olympics). If we start building new stadiums for pro teams every 15 or 20 years, $450 million here, $450 million there, pretty soon you’re talking about real money.

11. Not to mention that all the great new baseball parks built in the last 20 years (Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, San Francisco) have made their urban location part of what makes them great. You get to see the skyline. It feels like you’re somewhere. Cobb County could be anywhere.

12. Which all adds up to this: It’s CRAZY to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to build a new baseball stadium when the old one is just 16 years old, is in perfectly good shape and centrally located.

13. But I’ll go. Of course I’ll go. The Braves are my team, and it’s always fun to see the new doodads at a new stadium, and I’m sure I’ll have a good time. But I started going to Braves games 30-some years ago, when we would drive over from the University of Georgia on a whim to buy $3 tickets in the bleacher seats. That was Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium, the one before Turner Field. The Braves have been basically in that same spot since they came to Atlanta in 1966. Everybody moves; that’s one of the themes of America. But it was nice when at least a few things stayed put.

(Just to establish credentials: I live in Charlotte now but grew up in Georgia, have lived in the ATL a couple of times, and Bob Horner was once my favorite player.)

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First off, let me say I do appreciate the time you spent writing the piece, and for providing a summary of some of the talking points on the subject. With that said, I’d like to point out a few places where I think you’re off base.

1- This one’s just kind of silly and unnecessary don’t ya think? Is there the added benefit of a safer area with the new stadium? Absolutely. But to say that there is any race element to this is crazy to me.

2 – This seems like one of the most important factors in the whole deal to me, so I was a little surprised to see it get so little commentary compared to the other, more negative bullets.

4- While it may not be a 10 minute drive, it’s certainly much quicker for someone living downtown to get to Vinings/Smyrna than it is for the 75% of attending fans who live in Marietta, Roswell, Alpharetta, Kennesaw etc. to get to Turner Field.

5- Here are some intersections that make the one you referenced look like an empty parking lot…I-285/400, I-285/85(on the north side), I-75/I-575, oh and let’s not forget 2 of the worst and definitely the most important of all – I-85/I-75 merge and I-20/Downtown connector, BOTH of which HAVE to be encountered by any fans attending Turner Field unless they live within a few miles.

7- This one is just ridiculous. There are 10 times as many companies located within walking distance of the new site. How many office buildings do you see around Turner? What employees will stick around after work? Assuming there were employees in the area, then the logic used to make your point would also apply to the new site.

8- The Braves have some of the cheapest ticket prices around from my experience. I’ve been to 20 ballparks and they are either average or low when compared. Not to mention the fact that the $150 million of essential repairs needed to Turner Field would have to be paid at least partially from ticket price hikes, since the great mayor Reed has said he’s decided that’s the ONE tax hike the people of Atlanta cannot afford. And he’s probably right given how hard they already get taxed, what with the massive bill Reed has stuck them with for a new Falcons stadium in the same spot as the old one.

9- I have read in several places that Cobb County will be seeking out private investors to secure all or at least a portion of the $450 million. Not sure what will end up happening, but it’s worth mentioning. Also, there are endless opportunities for economic growth in this new site, something that is impossible in the current location.

11- Have you ever been to the parks you mentioned? Because both Great American Ballpark and AT&T Park have no skyline at all. They both face bodies of water.

12- Centrally located? Did you look at the heat map you linked to? It doesn’t matter if it’s convenient for people who live downtown if they never buy a ticket.

I get that change is difficult. Honestly though, there are only 3 groups of people that really have any kind of meaningful opinion on this matter. The Braves organization since they are spending $200mil, the taxpayers of Cobb County (myself included), and in some part the Braves fans who purchase tickets and attend games. The way I see it, we know the Braves opinion, they want to move. With how many complaints I hear constantly about the location of Turner, the hell on earth that is getting to it, and the fact that I don’t hear many comments like “Turner field is such a unique and special experience”, I am lead to believe the fans portion will agree with the Braves. That only leaves Cobb County taxpayers, and we won’t find out how that portion feels until they try to approve the funding. I, for one, would be happy to add a tax to my bill that I actually benefit from, on top of the countless list of programs and projects that I have to shell out for already. Plus, these taxes are usually administered as a hotel and visitor tax anyways, so other than the slight economic impact it could have on the economics of the area (which would be more than offset by the growth the area would see from this), there really isn’t much, if any extra burden at all placed on the taxpayers.

Thanks for giving the piece such a thorough and thoughtful read. Let me try to take your points one by one.

1. I think this the only one of your replies that’s just wrongheaded. Race and class play a part in most every big decision in Atlanta. Atlanta is generally whiter the further north you go and blacker the further south you go. When you pull up the stadium and take it north, that’s a statement, whether you mean it to be or not. Rembert Browne of Grantland has more to say about it here: http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/82022/saying-good-bye-as-the-braves-leave-atlanta-for-atlanta

By the way: I’ve never felt unsafe around the stadium. Maybe you’ve had different experiences. I think a lot of people ASSUME they’re going to feel unsafe because they don’t go to that part of Atlanta that often.

2. Yes, clearly, a big part of this deal is moving to where more ticket buyers are. I suspect they’re also moving to where they could get the best deal from the local government … but that part of the story hasn’t fully come out yet.

4. Is it really quicker from somebody to go outbound from downtown for a 7:30 game than to come inbound? I know you have to go through and then out the other side a little … but I’d have to see some data on that.

5. Maybe we can just agree that they’re ALL terrible :) But I think the notion the Braves are putting across is that it’ll be way better, and I don’t think that’s true.

7. Well, the companies aren’t right there on top of Turner Field, but it’s sure a lot closer to downtown Atlanta — where most of the workers still are — than anything in Cobb.

8. You’re right about the Braves having relatively low ticket prices. From what I can tell, when teams move, they tend to raise those prices. (And I hear you on the mayor and the Falcons.)

9. More power to Cobb if they can get private investment … but how was it impossible to develop the area around Turner? I’m not arguing with you, just don’t understand.

11. You’re right about the bodies of water … my larger point is that those parks are all in the city, and they feel like they’re part of the city. That’s part of what makes them great ballparks.

12. The reason things like ballparks should be centrally located, at least to me, is that demographics change over time. What if that heat map were to look really different 10 or 15 years from now? Should the team just chase fans around the perimeter? Or should the stadium be in a place that everybody can get to fairly equally?

Look, this is going to be like most things — half a season into it, no one will much care anymore. And you’re right that nobody counts the Ted among the great American ballparks. But I believe in the city as the great gathering place. I think Rembert has it right in that story I linked: People have felt like it’s a hassle to go to Atlanta to see the Atlanta Braves. That doesn’t seem right to me.

Mark, thanks for your comments … I’ll just say one thing: Demographics change. All those HQs weren’t there 15 years ago, and they might move east or west or south 15 years from now. Businesses are mobile. Stadiums require a lot more investment, much of it taxpayer-funded. I’d rather stick with a centrally-located spot than chase people around the perimeter every time they decide to move.

Well sure they could….just as the fortune 500s in downtown can (and have through the years) move. Its rare, but can happen (anywhere). And when the rare move does occur, it is statistically just as common for a company to move INTO an area. So that consideration is absolutely irrelevant, as its true anywhere, and thus a wash in the end.

And PS, the Ted is not centrally located. In no way is it walkable from the downtown that you seem to think is extinct from ever having companies locate out of. Too far South.

I hope that by the time Schuerholz’s drunken fog of frustration with the city of Atlanta clears that the Braves organization will be fine with the colossal cluster they’ve gotten themselves into. This is a grave mistake in my opinion. Ballparks should stay central… that way especially in a town like ATL where the traffic sucks everywhere, everyone feels equally screwed and can be ok with it.

I’m a lifelong Braves fan that lives in Cobb myself, but the commute to the Ted and parking were not that big a deal. It was a great reason to visit the city, I always felt safe, and Turner stadium being centrally located in the city means there are multiple alternate routes from any direction. This is a slap in the face and can potentially alienate fans south and east of the city. YES… there are white people in the city, south, east and all other points. I’ll be interested in seeing how that extra hour or two on I75 and I285 is going to affect their game day experience.

Turner made the Braves “America’s Team” so many years ago. Perhaps if Shuerholz and Company had spent more time actually DOING THEIR JOBS and earning that moniker by building a team that would turn all of those pennants and div titles into actual WS trophies (rather than whining about the city), they’d have gotten the cooperation they craved from ATL. People love a winner… not under-achievers. Good luck in Cobb.

Thanks for your article. I am familiar with baseball stadiums (have been to 42 MLB stadiums) and enjoyed your article. I agree with the fact that the current stadium should not be replaced (especially on the taxpayer dime), the fact that smaller capacity will help ticket sales (with the inevitable increase in average ticket prices).

I would disagree that race was a primary or secondary consideration in the move. Dollars and cents were the primary reasons for the move. Teams will seek maximum profit (from fans and stolen from taxpayers – Bud Selig and his minions have stolen billions over the years). A solid majority of fans (ticket buying and television) live in the area north of I-285. Atlanta does not have a large urban core fan base, there are not many bars or restaurants near Turner Field (or large sections of fans living within 1 mile of the stadium). Baseball depends on ticket sales far more than NFL or NBA teams (NHL teams depend even more on ticket sales).

Turner Field is exists in an isolated (beyond 9-5 weekday office workers) downtown core. Baltimore’s stadium is near the inner harbor, San Francisco has tens of thousands of fans living within walking distance. Pittsburgh and Cincinnati pull most of their fans from the suburbs, but their stadiums are easy to reach for a majority of their dispersed fan base, and are centrally located for most of their ticket base. Most Brave fans are coming from the area where the Braves plan to build their new stadium and there is not anything to draw / keep suburban fans pre/post game. That is not the case in several newer stadiums (San Francisco, Baltimore, San Diego, Seattle, Minneapolis, Saint Louis, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, etc.).

I am a lifelong Chicagoan. Both teams here publicly debated moving to the suburbs (White Sox to Addison in the 1980s, Cubs to Rosemont or Schaumburg recently, though more as a ploy to scam taxpayer funds which failed) but ultimately chose to stay put. While both teams have more season ticket holders living in/near their considered suburban locations, Chicago has a large enough population within the city to support both teams.

Comiskey Park has challenging issues east of the Dan Ryan, and the Cubs area was not very safe until the yuppies took over the area in the 1980s, pushing “urban life” north of Montrose Ave. into Uptown (1 mile north of the stadium). Chicago is far more segregated than Atlanta (Fulton, Cobb or just about any other area), yet both teams choose to stay put as their longterm economic prospects were better in the city. In Atlanta, that is not the case.

Atlanta has marginal support for all of their remaining professional teams (bye bye Flames and Thrashers). The Braves do not sell out playoff games (Cub fans were able to snag 10-15,000 + tickets in Atlanta cheaper (including airfare & hotel stays) than scalper prices at Wrigley Field. College Football is the primary sport for Atlanta’s non-Yankee transplants, but the city barely supports the home town Yellow Jackets (most fans look to Athens or beyond).

The bottom line is the Braves have much to gain and little to lose (alienating a much smaller local core fan base) with the move. Suburban politicians are throwing hundreds of millions in the air, like they just don’t care, and the team owners would be foolish to pass that up, especially considering the fact that their long term prospects within the city will only decline as the stadium ages and their fan base continues to pass on taking the time and energy to travel into Atlanta.

There’s also Detroit, which has a stadium in the downtown where just about none of the ticket buying population lives. And Detroit has a far worse reputation than Atlanta for just about every social ill. The answer should be to develop the area around Turner Field, not to move the team to a jam-packed suburban interchange. I can’t think of a single example where leaving the city to get closer to the fan base actually worked. Urban Atlanta has revived quite a bit, in the neighborhoods north and east of downtown. Those areas were extremely sketchy not all that long ago. There’s no reason why the areas south of downtown cannot do the same.

Jason, thanks for the comment, and I agree overall with your assessment — the Braves don’t have a lot to lose by moving, especially if somebody else is paying the freight. Two quick points:

– Even if race and class isn’t the reason they’re moving, the effect of the move does speak to those things. The Braves are moving from the center of a city known as a great place for black residents to the mostly-white suburbs. Dollars and cents or not, that carries some cultural significance.

– And your thoughts about the Chicago teams — especially the Cubs — bring up what I think is another problem with this: City demographics change. So what if, 10 years from now, something happens to make all those people from the northern suburbs move to the east? Will the Braves move to Gwinnett? Chasing demographics makes sense if you’re small and mobile, but a sports team that requires a nine-figure stadium can’t just rebuild over and over. Although I guess they can if somebody else is willing to pay for it.

No. The move to Cobb County does not “speak to” race. It’s YOU and people like you who are speaking to race as the central issue here. It’s not. The Braves aren’t moving to where the white people are, they’re moving to where the PEOPLE are. Just people. The metro area consists of more than 6 million people, most of which live in the northern suburbs. Atlanta proper has a population of about 500,000.

ITP/OTP is used by hipsters as an excuse not to come outside the perimeter. It does not in any way define Atlanta. The center of metro Atlanta is the Northside perimeter. Cobb County has more people than Atlanta. Smyrna and Cumberland have higher population density than Atlanta. Furthermore, the perimeter isn’t even a circle so saying ITP/OTP isn’t even scientific. Smyrna is close enough to downtown and midtown to be ITP in other parts of the metro area, as is the new stadium.

Brian, thanks for the comment. It’s funny — I’ve heard the ITP/OTP designation from the opposite end, from people outside who don’t want to go inside. But most of the folks I know in ATL aren’t hipsters. The only thing I’d add is that the population center of ATL hasn’t always been the northern perimeter… and it might not stay that way down the road. I’d hate to see them chase population around town if the demographics change.

People often forget that Midtown was super sketchy not that long ago. Now it’s hipster heaven. With proper development, the Turner Field area could be too.

I can’t for the life of me understand why anybody would think Cobb County taxpayers would be willing to float a $450 million investment in a stadium when the county will never get anything like that back in the form of business, and the county’s school system is facing budget cuts. At some point it just hits a moral nerve – what are the priorities of Cobb County taxpayers? Add to this fact, Cobb County (though less than 20 years ago) is the epicenter of anti-tax conservative Republicanism. Granted, this location is close to the Chattahoochee River and closer to Fulton County than to Marietta. Also, Cobb County is far more diverse now than in the past; it’s not like the Braves are considering moving to Cumming. But still, how does this really make sense for the state?

A better solution? Eliminate a bunch of seats (White Sox did that a while ago). Build a bunch of Midtown-style bars, condos and restaurants near the Ted.

Probably, when the North metro reaches a high enough density, development will probably start shift to the South metro around airport, etc. That’ll balance out the population back to be centered around Atlanta. But we’re probably looking at 20-30 years for that to fully materialize whereas the stadium lease will be 30 years.

As a native of what I call Atlanta, but is really Cobb County, it’s been interesting to read the wide array of opinions of folks who have spent little to no time there. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what “Atlanta” really is.

I’ll start with the Lester Maddox dig, which was obviously intended to brand Atlantans from the northern suburbs as lillywhite racists. I grew up there, maybe 6 miles from this bridge, but we just knew it as I-75. I had never heard of Lester Maddox or his bridge. It’s not like we have a festival for the guy every week where we turn firehoses on ITP denizens trying to cross the bridge named for him.

Next, I feel like I should address the actual distance of things in Atlanta. John Schuerholz calls it “a short distance from downtown” because IT IS 11 MILES from Centennial park! Maybe that sounds like a long way to you, but ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in Atlanta is AT LEAST 11 miles from the next thing. This is true of every American city that has seen as much growth as Atlanta has since the dawn of the automobile, but most folks who write and talk on TV for a living live in towns that are older than that, or they live in LA and think they’re unique.

Now let’s talk about those good theoretical folks working downtown who might go grab a bite and catch a Braves game, win or lose! This does not happen. Of the relative few people in Atlanta who do work downtown, the vast majority of them live north of town. They would have to drive south to Turner Field (30 minutes in traffic, minimum), take in a game, then sit in an additional hour of traffic just getting out of the parking lot (this is not an exaggeration) before getting BACK on the downtown connector for a 30-minute drive (no traffic) home. Now, the stadium is SLAP DAB in the middle of the ” the commuter death march to Cobb,” which the majority of commuters are doing anyway. How much easier is it to pull off the highway and sit in a baseball stadium than to sit in your car? You’re not going anywhere anyway! As an aside, in my experience the traffic on I-75 doesn’t really start to back up until the bottleneck near Delk Road, which is well north of the Perimeter and the new stadium site.

On your point about attendance being middling at best, I’m glad you brought up the fact that the Braves’ stadium is too big. Did you know it was built to host international track and field competition for the Olympic Games? It is the second largest baseball stadium in the league, and Atlanta is not the second largest city in America.

Now of course traffic is going to be a problem. It is a problem in the current location and would be a problem in any other location. It is a fact of life. Another fact of life? Ticket prices are going to go up! I bet they will be going up for virtually every single Major League Baseball team in both new stadiums and old. The Red Sox do not charge the same amount they did when Fenway opened, you know.

Finally, no, I will not defend public money to support this project. But that’s probably just another fact of life like traffic.

“Braves are moving closer to their fan base”. Yes, that is correct. But why is their fan base where it is? There is this phenomenon that has been prevalent in the Atlanta area for over 40 years now called “white flight”. As blacks encroach on predominately white neighborhoods, whites will react by perpetually moving further from the city’s center, into rural areas. Those rural areas eventually become urban and the cycle continues. Twenty years from now, when this new lease is up, the Braves will announce a move to Cartersville, Ga. (further north), so they can be closer to their “fan base”.

I love Atlanta. I work downtown. I go to a lot of Braves games. I’m saddened by this news. But you all are SO MISINFORMED. Stop spreading all of this misinformation! 13 ways? Come on, you’re reworking the same 2 or 3 reasons in 13 bullet points.

4. No one (relatively speaking) is leaving downtown Atlanta to go to Braves game. Remember the heat map you provided in #2?

5. Similar to #4, people already arrive in the 5th inning trying to get to Turner Field from anywhere north of downtown. Current traffic is atrocious. A nightmare. This new site will have more parking spots, BETTER traffic flow, MANY MORE access points to TWO INTERSTATES as well as Hwy. 41. The undeveloped land provides a blank canvas to make traffic work.

6. Similar to #4/#5, Braves’ research shows that the #1 reason people don’t go to games is because of traffic. It takes forever to get to Turner Field, and there is nothing to do there but watch a game. Which rolls into…

7. People still working downtown rarely stick around for a Braves game. There’s nowhere to grab dinner, anyway. IN FACT, the Cumberland/Galleria district has a larger workforce than the downtown district. It is full of top restaurants and retail shops and Fortune 500 HQs. The new ballpark will be built as the centerpiece of a mixed use development, with more restaurants, retail, hotels, etc…

And by the way on 12. Turner Field is not in great shape. It’s in need of a couple of hundred million in renovations. Structural stuff, not aesthetics.

Finally, everyone stop with all this “you have to wander out into Cobb County deep into the suburbs” nonsense. It’s a driver and a 6 iron from being “inside the perimeter.” It’s even got an Atlanta mailing address for crying out loud. People who live in the suburbs think Smyrna is “too close to the city.” The notion that this site is in the suburbs is hilarious. Traffic on I-75 North out of downtown doesn’t even back up until you are NORTH of this site. It’s 10 minutes from downtown on 9 days out of 10, once you claw out of downtown’s surface street nightmare and find the interstate.

FYI I lived ITP the first 25 years of my life, and have lived the last 10 just barely OTP, so I get slack from the ITP’ers for defecting, and slack from the real OTP’ers for still living in the city.

#4 — The heat map thing is interesting, but here’s what I’d like to know: Where do those ticket buyers work? If they’re working in Cobb, then obviously a stadium in Cobb is convenient. But if they’re working downtown, isn’t it easier to go to a game from work than to drive up through rush-hour traffic to get to the stadium?

#5 — “The undeveloped land provides a blank canvas to make traffic work” has been Atlanta’s motto since the ’50s. And you see how the traffic has turned out.

#7 — Cumberland/Galleria has a bigger workforce than downtown ATL? I’m not disputing that, but I’d like to see some numbers. And if that’s true, where is all that downtown traffic coming from?

And by the way: 75 and 285 is 10 minutes from downtown 9 times out of 10? You mean around the time people would be arriving for a Braves game? That really stretches the bounds of what I can believe.

Sounds like you’re in the netherlands between OTP and ITP… maybe ATP? At The Perimeter? There’s always room for one more acronym :)

Thanks Tommy – some are working in Cobb. More in fact, than are working downtown. Most are not downtown at all. Most work along a line north of Buckhead and south of a line from Woodstock to Alpharetta to Lawrenceville. I’m not looking at the heat map of ticket sales now, but I think the dark red oval-like shape on the northern half of the map pretty much mirrors this.

And my stats on traffic patterns are accurate. Yes let me sandbag and say 15 minutes from in front of Georgia Tech on I-75 north to the stadium site, at 6pm. 9 days out of 10.

Northbound interstates both 75 and 85 do not clog up until you reach 285. “The Connector” I-75/85 southbound through downtown backs up between 1pm and 7pm DAILY. This is what happens when you funnel two of the nation’s major interstates into one through the middle of the city, and add in a couple of 90 degree turns, and a crossing major interstate I-20, all at the same place (where Turner Field is).

Next time you are in town over a few weekdays, let me know. At 6pm, you start at the stadium site and head for Turner Field. I will start at the Ted and head for the stadium site. I will beat you and also have time to stop at Chick-fil-a. Run the same exercise from the often mentioned Doraville site (the old GM plant) the next day at I-85/I-285, and I will beat you with time to get dinner and run an errand or two. Then for kicks on a Friday, start in Roswell and head down GA 400 to I-85 to Turner Field. I’ll head up 75 to the new stadium site, sit down for dinner, and head BACK to Turner Field, and beat you. I’ll even bring you a meal.

Tommy: to answer your question, most of them work in cobb, too. It’s become a mecca for new and old businesses alike. People who aren’t from the metro-Atlanta area (I’m not saying you aren’t because you said you live there now) don’t understand the dynamics of the area. It’s not like many other urban areas where the city is the central launching point. Cobb is where it’s at right now, even for the younger crowd. Same goes for the Alpharetta area. And while there is a population of middle-to-upper class families, yuppies and hipsters in “the city” they are strongly outnumbered when in regards to where the tickets are sold.

Ay yes, ATP is actually a thing in Atlanta. Most locals would know what you meant. It could easily refer to the area near the new stadium. It would more commonly refer to the Sandy Springs/Dunwoody area (an area on the cusp of the city).

The $450 million offer is nothing more than a half-billion corporate welfare gift to a special interest. The government officials involved should be ashamed of themselves for making such promises behind closed doors and without the public’s knowledge.

Too many municipalities have been stuck footing the bill for professional sports arenas. Taxpayers need to speak up and put an end to this sort of largesse.

Jeff, thanks for the comment … although if downtown is dead, where’s all that traffic coming from? If there’s nobody down there, it should be a breeze to get to the stadium, right?

To your larger point: One of the things, to me, that argues for a centrally located stadium is that demographics shift. Those office buildings weren’t always concentrated on the northern perimeter. And they won’t always be concentrated there. So it makes sense to me to put a stadium in the middle of everything instead of chasing people wherever they decide to move around the metro area.

You folks crack me up. Re: #4, can’t you see that what you are saying in the new scenario is exactly what happens today?? You already admitted that the fans are in the north metro. So “trying to get from north metro ATL down I-75 to the other side of the Perimeter for a 7:30 game … make sure your SUV is loaded with provisions” is the *current* day problem — not the future one. You know, for the actual fans?

And as far as number 7 — do you think there aren’t just as many jobs in that part of town? So sticking “around after work, grab some dinner and go to a Braves game” is just as likely. MORE so given that there are, you know, actual places you’d want your family to have dinner at, around there.

Perhaps when you move back to Atlanta, you’ll re-learn the area so that you can understand why this was a genius — and no brainer — move by the Braves.

That “heat map” the Braves are passing around with great efficiency is pretty obviously deceptive to locals living in North Fulton, which accounts for more than half of that sea of red. For those of us living up 400, Turner Field is at least as accessible as the 75/285 interchange today (and it’s a great deal more accessible than that part of town when you take MARTA into account). So as much as the Braves want everybody to point to all of that red in that map and think “Of course!” the reality is that the Ted is still more convenient for most of the people accounting for that red. All this does is take away the “that part of town” euphemisms only some people living OTP even deem it necessary to use to mask their own…proclivities.

Andrew I lived in Roswell for well over a decade…..clearly you’re in need of some route guidance of how to get to Smyrna. Its not even comparable to a trip to down the connector at rush hour to go south of downtown. Google maps is your friend :^)

You’ve nailed this. From any urban planning perspective, this is a horrible idea that harms the City of Atlanta far more than it will ever help Cobb County. Moving ten miles away from mass transit to a County that is outwardly hostile to it, while at the same time citing the fact that Turner Field is one mile away from Marta as justification for moving was a particularly interesting justification by the Braves.

Without the skyline, the park could literally be anywhere in America. If you look at the plot of land they have, it will be difficult to develop much in the way of mixed-use development immediately surrounding the park due to the need to have 30,000 parking spaces. The surrounding area isn’t walkable yet and there isn’t much to walk to except for some declining shopping centers. While a stadium within a new fake city could be great and novel, it’s impossible in 3 years. Those are the type of developments that take years to plan and years to develop.

Speaking of which, where are the plans? No traffic studies, no economic studies, and no architectural drawings. How are you going to get people to the stadium during rush hour? Will downtown firms and companies continue to buy tickets and suites when the park isn’t near their clients and visitors? Will fans in Gwinnett or areas East or South of town go to games? In 20 years when the Braves want to move back, will there be any vacant land downtown that they can afford?

Oh please, can we give the mass transit liberal pipedream a rest already. Do you go to Braves games???? I bet the percentage of fans in attendance averages at best 3% of attendees. If that. Now all the progressives might not like that, might wish it wasn’t so, in a better world, kum ba ya, etc ad nauseum – but here in reality land, its a non issue.

The Braves are a private business, they don’t owe anything to “the city of” Atlanta, nor to furthering the boondoggle of “mass transit.” With this move however, they have enhanced the larger “metro” Atlanta, with this small move just 12 miles away.

Alexander – Your post reminds me of a line from the cinematic classic Billy Madison, “Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.”

Declining shopping centers? When was the last time you were in the Cumberland area? 1988?

I’m sure downtown companies will continue to buy tickets. But the fact is that there aren’t many companies left downtown. Most are in Cobb, North Fulton, and Gwinnett already and have been for at least the last decade. For the record I work in the heart of downtown, and whenever there’s not a convention in town, the lunch crowds, well, there aren’t any.

How are we going to get people into the stadium during rush hour? The same way people get into Turner Field during rush hour but maybe a little less painfully! Have you ever driven down I-85 from Gwinnett to Turner Field on a game day in under 90 minutes? The commute to the new site will be better, or comparable at the very least.

In all seriousness, maybe in 20 years we can build a new Braves stadium where the GA Dome is now, so the Falcons, Braves, and Hawks can all play next door to each other. That would be great.

I think that the main points are spot on..and only something that a real fan would know. However I think something is missing here. Liberty Media and the Braves lack of a truly competitive television contract. Liberty doesn’t belong in the business of baseball. However the value of the team isn’t at it’s height right now despite the competitive teams fielded.

But, with a new stadium the value of the team increases. A (The?) new owner might not get a great television deal but it’s a great real estate deal.

#9 – Everyone wants to talk about the 182 teachers cut in Cobb County but no-one wants to speak of the $134M Cobb sends to less privileged counties in Georgia every year (like poor Gwinnett) under QBE. Until you understand how schools in Cobb are funded please don’t try to compare funds for a stadium to cutting teachers. If you really understood how they were funded you would know the stadium will be an economic boom to Cobb County since 1% of the sales tax goes to an ED-SPLOST fund to help build/rebuild schools in our district.

Gosh Tommy, your number 12 sounds a whole lot like the ‘old’ Hornets arena on Billy Graham which is one of the biggest examples of urban waste in history. As a liberal that buys into the whole green, global warming narrative this should be outrageous. Not a peep about this though from your former employer because as you know it helped perpetuate this whole phony downtown ‘uptown’ ‘world class city’ propaganda. As someone who has traveled you know well Charlotte is at very best a AAA minor league city to use a sports analogy. You seem like a nice guy but like any member in good standing of the MSM your are blissfully unaware of your own hippocracy. Don’t worry I don’t think for a second you will respond.

Tommy, I last went to game when the stadium was still new and as I was walking back nearly got robbed or worse. I have not been back since and like you I grew up a Braves fan. In the last few years I have heard numerous stories from co-workers and friends in the area that describe an even worse situation. I know you have a different perspective and mean well but people, esp those with families had quit going to the games for safety reasons. ‘Those people’ you mention are a delicate but unfortunate reality and the reality is that the people that pay the ticket prices will start going to the games again in Cobb county.

1) What does the National Park Service think of this move? The new development will undoubtedly hurt the ecosystem surrounding the Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area. The new site practically backs up to this park, which is one of Atlanta’s natural gems. They have already hosted a “Turtle Move Day”. What other species, both animal and plant, will be irreversibly harmed?

2) The Falcons are constructing a new stadium. The Hawk’s have a new court. Why are the Braves choosing to not build on the site of the soon-to-be-demolished Georgia Dome? This will would bring all of the sports teams to one area. Marta would be available via CNN station. It would bring the stadium north of I-20, helping the traffic situation.