Comments on: What Does Holocaust Denial Really Mean?http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/
a radical newsletter in the struggle for peace and social justiceSat, 27 Sep 2014 17:28:19 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6.1By: Bruce Mullenhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59248
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:52:29 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59248Can anything be more insulting to the victims of the holocaust than to prevent a complete investigation to discover the truth of this terrible event? How can we proclaim “never again” when we know so well that hundreds of millions of people have died since WW2 of wars, starvation and disease as the by product of a similar hate and greed? How can we prevent such terrible things from continuously happening all over the world if we do not know exactly what happened the first time?

Would the destruction of Palestine, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Haiti, Korea, Vietnam, Central America, most of Africa and so forth and so on have happened and still continue to happen if we truly knew what went so terribly wrong with our civilization in the 20’th century?

And certainly the holocaust must be one of the most important clues to “what went wrong”. Isn’t it about time that we use modern methods of investigation to allow our historians and criminologists to find out the entire truth about the holocaust, WW2 and ourselves?

What are the holocausters afraid of? What are they trying to hide? We owe the holocaust victims and the hundreds of millions of victims since that time the truth.. They who have died should not have died in vain. Let’s allow the lessons of the holocaust to be our salvation and not a continued reason for more of the same.

]]>By: Jameshttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59247
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:52:19 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59247Germany criminalises “Holocaust denial”, in fact any questioning of the official zionist line supported by the Arjer ‘liberal’ violently anti-Palestinian power elite in New York, for the simple reason that the Arjers have had the rest of the world mesmerised by their financial and political power. [Arjers = ‘anti-racist Jewish racists’]. German and Japanese cities were deliberately firebombed, burning women and children alive in hundreds of thousands – the US and British burnt their victims alive, while the Germans are alleged to have gassed them before burning them (which would, ironically enough, be a kind of euthanasia), using a procedure which is technically impossible – Professor Robert Faurisson of the University of Lyons has been responsible for proving this beyond any possibility of doubt.
]]>By: Jameshttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59246
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:41:53 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59246The politically incorrect six million

Alexander Solzhenitsyn had this to say of the Soviet system which was deemed worthy of recognition as one of “our” Allies fighting for “Democracy” against the “Dictators” in WW2:

“This was a system which, in time of peace, artificially created a famine causing SIX MILLION PERSONS to die in the Ukraine between 1932 and 1933. They died on the very threshold of Europe. And Europe didn’t even notice it. The world didn’t even notice it. SIX MILLION PERSONS!”

(Alexander Solzhenitsyn Speaks to the West (1978) p 16)

Stalin’s first Five-Year Plan (1928-32) sought to bring about the ‘collectivization of agriculture’ in accordance with the ‘abolition of property in land’ put forward in Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto. In the period before the Revolution millions of independent peasant farmers known as kulaks had their own individual plots.

When Communism was imposed on Russia, the kulaks as private property owners now stood in the way of the idea of Communism. In 1929 Stalin called for ‘the liquidation of the kulaks’, and their small family farms, animals, implements and crops were declared to belong to the state.

“The (Jewish) communist leaders Trotsky, Zinoviev and Kamenev had always argued that the peasant would never surrender enough food voluntarily, and must be coerced and, if need be, crushed” (*Paul Johnson A History of the Modern World (1983) p 268).

The Red Army and the GPU were used to implement the policy. All peasants who resisted were treated with violence. A very large number were killed or sent in cattle or freight trains to the frozen north or the desert steppes. Rather than give up their animals to the collective farms, many peasants killed and ate them. As a result, the number of farm animals in the Soviet Union was catastrophically reduced…

(Quigley, Tragedy and Hope, p 398).

The peasants stopped farming on ground that suddenly, officially, no longer belonged to them. As a result, food production decreased drastically. After a while, the cities started running out of food. Orders were given for grain to be confiscated from the peasants, whether they had sufficient for themselves and their families or not. Those caught trying to reserve food for their families were ‘severely dealt with’. By the winter of 1932-3, virtually no food was left in the countryside. By early March 1933, ‘death on a mass scale really began’ (Robert Conquest, The Harvest of Sorrow (1986) p243). The main farming areas of Russia, in the regions of the Ukraine and North Caucasus, were utterly devastated. Millions of people were forced to eat anything that was available. It was a time of terrible hunger, a catastrophic man-made famine….

Extracts from The Holocaust Industry by Norman G. Finkelstein of the City University of New York (published by Verso publishers, London and New York, 2000):

On page 83 Finkelstein notes that ‘The Israeli Prime Minister’s office recently put the number of “living Holocaust survivors” at nearly a million.’

On page 127 he further notes ‘If 135,000 former Jewish slave laborers are still alive today, some 600,000 must have survived the war. That’s at least a half-million more than standard estimates.. If Jews only constituted 20% of the surviving camp population and, as the Holocaust industry implies, 600,000 Jewish inmates survived the war, then fully 3 million inmates in total must have survived. By the Holocaust industry’s reckoning, concentration camp conditions couldn’t have been that harsh at all; in fact, one must suppose a remarkably high fertility and remarkably low mortality rate.. If, as the Holocaust industry suggests, many hundreds of thousands of Jews survived, the Final Solution couldn’t have been so efficient after all ­ exactly what Holocaust deniers argue. (pp127-8). ‘

‘Both my father and my mother were survivors of the Warsaw ghetto and the Nazi concentration camps.. One of my father’s lifelong friends was a former inmate with him in Auschwitz, a seemingly incorruptible left-wing idealist who on principle refused German compensation after the war. Eventually he became a director of the Israeli Holocaust museum, Yad Vashem. Reluctantly and with genuine disappointment, my father finally admitted that even this man had been corrupted by the Holocaust industry, tailoring his beliefs for power and profit. As the rendering of the Holocaust assumed ever more absurd forms, my mother liked to quote (with intentional irony) Henry Ford: “History is bunk.” (ibid. p7).

‘The Holocaust proved to be the perfect weapon for deflecting criticism of Israel’ (ibid p30).

‘Much of the literature on Hitler’s Final Solution is worthless as scholarship. Indeed, the field of Holocaust studies is replete with nonsense, if not sheer fraud.’ (p 55).

‘Given the nonsense that is turned out daily by the Holocaust industry, the wonder is that there are so few skeptics’. (p 68). …

To conclude:
‘The Holocaust may yet turn out to be the “greatest robbery in the history of mankind”.. The Holocaust industry has clearly gone berserk.'(p 138-9). …

Let’s have a look at a typical account by one of the seemingly endless number of survivors: Olga Lengyel’s Five Chimneys: a woman survivor’s true story of Auschwitz (Granada/ Ziff-Davis, 1947, 1972).

The blurb on the cover of the book quotes the New York Herald-Tribune: “Passionate, tormenting”. Albert Einstein, the promoter of the US construction of the bombs used at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, is quoted as offering “You have done a real service by letting the ones who are now silent and most forgotten speak.”

According to Lengyel, ‘After June, 1943, the gas chamber was reserved exclusively for Jews and Gypsies.. Three hundred and sixty corpses every half-hour, which was all the time it took to reduce human flesh to ashes, made 720 per hour, or 17,280 corpses per twenty-four hour shift. And the ovens, with murderous efficiency, functioned day and night. However, one must also reckon the death pits, which could destroy another 8,000 cadavers a day. In round numbers, about 24,000 corpses were handled each day. An admirable production record, one that speaks well for German industry.’ (Paperback edition, pp80-81). [No trace of any remains of or in ‘death pits’ has been found.]

This implies almost 100,000 corpses per four working days, or a million in 40 days, or six million in 240 days (eight months).

Could this claim be a misprint?

Kitty Hart, in spite of her name a Jewish survivor born in Poland, fully confirms these figures:

‘Working around the clock, the four units together could dispose of about 18,000 bodies every twenty-four hours, while the open pits coped with a further 8,000 in the same period.’ (p 118; Return to Auschwitz – paperback edition by Granada (1981, 1983).

According to the cover blurb, ‘The subject of the award-winning Yorkshire television documentary of the same name.’ ‘Both engaging and harrowing…an important addition to the growing holocaust literature, very little of which conveys so courageously both the daily torment and the will to survive’ – Martin Gilbert, The Times.

Martin Gilbert, indefatigable Jewish campaigner on behalf of the ‘Holocaust’ and biographer of Winston Churchill, adds to the rich flavour and makes his own numerical claims, certainly not without chutzpah:

In his book Auschwitz and the Allies (1981) he states

‘The deliberate attempt to destroy systematically all of Europe’s Jews was unsuspected in the spring and early summer of 1942: the very period during which it was at its most intense, and during which hundreds of thousands of Jews were being gassed every day at Belzec, Chelmo, Sobibor and Treblinka.’ (p.26).

If we assume a minimum figure of 200,000 per day, this amounts to say a million a five-day working week, or 6 million in six weeks, and this does not include the rather awe-inspiring claims for Auschwitz put forward by Hart and Lengyel with Gilbert’s blessing.

Wiesel has been one of the most prominent spokesman for the very sizeable group of people known as Holocaust survivors. [According to Norman Finkelstein of the City University of New York in his book The Holocaust Industry published in the year 2000, ‘The Israeli Prime Minister’s office recently put the number of “living Holocaust survivors” at nearly a million’ (p.83)]. Wiesel has chaired the US Holocaust Memorial Council and has been the recipient of a Congressional Gold Medal and Nobel Peace Prize..

Time Magazine, March 18 1985:

‘How had he survived two of the most notorious killing fields [Auschwitz and Buchenwald] of the century? “I will never know” Wiesel says. “I was always weak. I never ate. The slightest wind would turn me over. In Buchenwald they sent 10,000 to their deaths every day. I was always in the last hundred near the gate. They stopped. Why?”

Compare this with Encyclopaedia Britannica (1993), under ‘Buchenwald’:

“In World War II it held about 20,000 prisoners.. Although there were no gas chambers, hundreds perished monthly through disease, malnutrition, exhaustion, beatings and executions.”

“I’ve checked out the six volumes of Churchill’s Second World War and the statement is quite correct – not a single mention of Nazi ‘gas chambers,’ a ‘genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.

Eisenhower’s Crusade in Europe is a book of 559 pages; Churchill’s Second World War totals 4,448 pages; and De Gaulle’s three-volume Mémoires de guerre is 2,054 pages.

In this mass of writing, which altogether totals 7,061 pages (not including the introductory parts), published from 1948 to 1959, one will find no mention either of Nazi ‘gas chambers,’ a ‘genocide’ of the Jews, or of ‘six million’ Jewish victims of the war.”

“There are many famous Holocaust survivors who survived the Nazi genocides in Europe and went on to achievements of great fame and notability. Those listed here were, at the very least, residents of the parts of Europe occupied by the Axis powers during World War II who survived until the end of the Holocaust (and the war). The majority of these people survived incarceration in the Nazi concentration camps, but that is not strictly necessary for the purposes of this list…”

‘The Israeli Prime Minister’s office recently put the number of “living Holocaust survivors” at nearly a million’ (extract from The Holocaust Industry by Norman G. Finkelstein of the City University of New York, published by Verso, London and New York, 2000, p.83).

[Googling “holocaust survivor” supplies 1,710,000 items]

]]>By: Rogierhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59238
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:07:17 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59238There is no doubt the jews were treated very badly in Europe during WW2. There were camps, illnes, starvation etc. … but nowhere have i found 1 single evidence of systematic gassing of jews in the camps. And please…a photo of people standing in a line in the camps is NOT evidence of gassing. Researching finding no traces of Zyklon B in the alleged gaschambers IS evidence as in the delousing chambers they did find Zyklon B.
]]>By: peter wainehttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59232
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:56:21 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59232The simple question to as is Does the truth need to be backed up by a prison term? if it is self evident the truth will stand all by itself for it needs no laws.

Its is Ironic is it not that Israel’s first prime minister Mr Ben Gurion accepted that the Palistinians was the true Jews of Palastine and had converted to Islam and now Israels Zionist butchers are in fact still continuing the holocaust of real Jews the Palistinians.

Pitty there is no one to jail these ethnic cleansers and a pitty no country is prepared to attack Israel and regime change it for thier constant breaking of UN resolutions and its constant attacks on it’s neighbours.

]]>By: Concrete manhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-59230
Fri, 13 Nov 2009 08:31:02 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-59230The URL is here. I found some parts of the books a bit out of wack, but overall an amazing indictment of the level of lying on the part of the Jewish controlled western establishment. Makes me sick to my stomache the double standards and hypocrisy these people are up to.

A Greater “Miracle” Than The Lost Ten Tribes Discovered…—The Dead “Six Million” Uncovered…!
“Shhh!—It’s against the law to say that.”
Is the Jewish “Holocaust” a massive fraud? Did six million really die? This excellently documented book exposes the Zionist’s outrageous mind control scheme to twist and distort historical truth for political and financial advantage. The Holocaust “dogma” is proven to be a racket perpetrated by unscrupulous, ungodly power-brokers.

The author, Brian Alois Clèraubat, has bravely put his life on the line by writing this book, which will surely become a scholarly classic.

Warning: This book is not available in any bookstore in the world—not even on Amazon.com. This subject is so hush-hush and forbidden that in many countries in Europe and elsewhere, anyone who agrees out loud with the author’s facts will be tried and sent to prison for a “thought” and “speech” crime. Fortunately, in America the Zionist Big Brother Brigade does not yet have the power to stop you from discovering the truth. However, we recommend you rush your order for this hard-to-find-book, “A Greater Miracle” today, before the Obama thought-police make freedom of speech a crime here, too!

544 pages • Brian Alois Clèraubat • $25.00

]]>By: B99http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53482
Wed, 02 Sep 2009 00:44:15 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53482Peter – Here’s the real question. Anybody on DV who talks about this issue at all at some point confesses to where they stand. How about you? After having confiscated 78% of historical Palestine by 1949 and confiscated the rest of Palestine in 1967 please tell us what kind gesture you would have the Palestinians take so as to please their successors. Would you like them to go away entirely and leave the Jews unmolested? Or would you just like them to stay in the little compounds that Israel has designed for them? Or is it just possible that given the outline of history to date – it might be time for the Israelis to make the grand gesture? Ball’s in your court.
]]>By: B99http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53474
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 22:04:04 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53474The expulsion of Germans from their former countries was done in a fit of pique by countries that had been victimized by the Nazis. Lebensraum was a by-word of the Nazis in no small measure because German populations had been expanding eastward over the centuries, thus Hitler could pretend these were abused populations. The expulsions, race-based they were, put an end to that ‘demographic’ problem in most of Eastern Europe.

The Zionists want the privilege – that’s who. They have fought (and won) the privilege of banning denial of the Holocaust. What other group has gained such lawful backing for its cause?

Jews of the nations you name – who incidentally were largely Arab to begin with and had lived gainfully with Muslims for centuries – were urged to make aliyah, that is ‘return’ to Israel. The appeal of this to Arab-Jews was only evident when Israel’s relations with its neighbors soured after it killed and expelled 750,000 Arab inhabitants of Palestine. Would you think that good relations could prevail after the Jews committed genocide of an Arab population? It’s not as if Israel did not go out of its way to insure bad relations. Israel blew up synagogues in Iraq and its undermining of Jewish-Arab relations in Egypt ended no earlier than revelations of the Lavon Affair.

Yes, Israel is likely the most vilified country in the world. After being gifted with a country by Europeans, largely out of Holocaust guilt and anti-Arab racism; and after it was permitted to join the UN without fulfilling its requirement to repatriate the Palestinians it evicted; it continued to attack its neighbors until it had lost virtually all world sympathy by 1973. Only the US remained its ally, and Israel itself is the ally of no country. Yet the world looks the other way while Israel carries out a long term slow genocide on its indigenous population. That’s Israel’s Free Pass. And Zionists on this site and elsewhere demand that ‘the only democracy in the Middle East’ be held to a different standard – the standard that criticism of this state is anti-Semitic. Can you tell me why that is?

Jewish ‘refugees’ have been settled on Palestinian land, in Palestinian homes, using Palestinian resources. That has been their reward for making aliyah. These same ‘refugees’, whose plight the Palestinians had nothing to do with, turn around and spit (or actually, shoot) on Palestinians.

The genocide against Palestinians is indeed the worst thing to ever happen to Palestinians-and it’s still happening.

It’s absurd to force them to recognize a “worse” one and insane to expect them recognize the one done to the people brutalizing them. Your fallacious argument would sound better if it were Germans being ethnically cleansed by European Jews. Of course Israel knows it’s absurd and insane but not many in their audience understand anything but “holocaust denial”.

]]>By: Peter Edelmanhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53469
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 21:07:22 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53469Any comment on the millions of Germans who were expelled from what’s now Poland and the Czech Republic after WWII and its legitimacy? Talk about race based…As for the privileged position of Jews, who would want such privileges? As for Jews, where are the Jews of Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Algeria, which had substantial Jewish populations until recently in history? Israel gets a free pass? That’s news to me. It’s the most vilified country in the world. In the world of the oppressed it seems to me that the Palestians are privileged considering that unfortunately, they are actually a small part of the number of refugees in the world. Ironically, many Jewish refugees have been settled in Israel.
]]>By: b99http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53456
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:32:21 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53456Peter – Actually, the number of Palestinians killed by Israel is at the very very minimum – 60,000. That’s not insignificant. The number of Palestinians maimed for life is in the hundreds of thousands, the numbers imprisoned similar. These are not trivial numbers – and the offense for being punished thusly is that they exist in a land that Jews have designated for themselves only.

But more important than the numbers is the race-based nature of the persecution. As you know, when oppression is race-based, there is nothing to be done about it, no behavior the victim can adopt that will allay the perpetrator. The Palestinians are slain for not being Jews. They are harrassed, evicted, displaced, rounded-up, imprisoned, tortured, shunted-aside, and discriminated against for not being Jews. That millions of Jews were killed by the Nazis does not legitimate Israel’s behavior. There is no free pass – not for Israel, nor its defenders.

You will not stop Holocaust deniers by making it illegal to deny it. All that accomplishes is confirmation of a privileged position of Jews in the pantheon of slaughtered people – of which there are many.

]]>By: Peter Edelmanhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53454
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:47:07 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53454“discussion” is one thing and basic facts are another
Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were ethnically cleansed from Palestine in the 1940’s. Between 5 and 6 million Jewish people were killed as Jews, including more than 1 million children as Jews in the Hitler period. These are facts.
]]>By: b99http://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53453
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:37:42 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53453peter – There are a number of reasons why a person might focus on the ‘Palestinians displacement’ – some very material, like US taxpayer money, or its relationship to Arab/Muslim resentment of US policy and the resultant events of 9/11/01. As for myself, I DO think that the genocides of Darfur and the Congo are major crimes against humanity – but I know that while the US may ignore them or tacitly permit them, only Israel has achieved the status of being celebrated for its atrocities. That has to stop.

While I think it is ridiculous to deny the Holocaust – I certainly don’t think it should be illegal to do so, that only makes it fester – and to seek outlets, like Iran, a nation that need not have put itself in the middle of what should essentially be a European or Western discussion.

So are you suggesting that both Holocaust denial and ‘Palestinian Displacement ‘should be off-limits for discussion?

]]>By: Peter Edelmanhttp://dissidentvoice.org/2009/02/what-does-holocaust-denial-really-mean/#comment-53450
Tue, 01 Sep 2009 16:21:19 +0000http://www.dissidentvoice.org/?p=6793#comment-53450To Hue Longer-
first of all I did not say what you said I did…that is was the worst thing
secondly, this Hamas guy didn’t say what you did either. He said it didn’t happen at all.
It’s people like you who think the Palestinians displacement is the worst event in History. Maybe you should have a look at Darfur, the Congo and many other examples, including the genocide that we have done to the native people in the US
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