As Conquer Club's number of active members seems to fall year by year we have all read numerous explanations for its rather worrying plight.

Some blame the moderation policy for driving away members bored by a lack of flamewars, others (in a similar vein) point to a GD-lite environment that has managed to make this most important of forums seem almost castrated in its ability to shoot controversial, wordy missiles at the 'CC man'. Others would say that people have simply got bored of the game, or that there are other online games (if not better Risk-like sites) stealing the attention of the strategically-minded. These are the words of the unrepresentative hardcore.

I myself have postulated on whether the rise of the clan may have been the cause. This theory is naturally more esoteric. Might the site have become less friendly to the casual player, as there are increasingly fewer interesting PUBLIC team or even standard games available for the player who doesn't wish to exist on this site in a perpetual battle against other clans. Might it be true that not everyone wants to see their gaming as part of a greater cause? Surely that is undoubtably true. And might this purposeful explosion of clan based gaming have limited the gaming options of the more individualist gamer? Are there less good players now playing public games? Are the vast majority of open games now on 'tricky' maps set up by GRASPING high rankers attemping to farm the unwary on strange settings?

For of course the incredible increase in settings has also meant that it is now easier than ever to set up a game - on an unusual map - with strange settings and thus defeat the new or casual player. It is odd to think that CC have actually increased the prospect of farming by the expansion of settings. But it is surely true. It is hard to argue with that idea that the best players play on simple maps and simple settings and defeat the opposition squarely. Yet since my arrival on this site the opportunity to create an unholy combination of settings and map has been positively encouraged. This is not much fun for the casual player 'looking for a decent game of Risk'. And don't forget - you CC addicts reading this - that the vast majority of players on this site are looking for a 'decent game of Risk'. I know most of you have played so many games that you have managed to bore yourselves silly of the original game that brought you here, but you simply don't reflect the average gamer. Strangely, possibly unbelieveably, I actually do. And I know it is harder to get a decent game of Risk here than before. A game not ruined (for the average gamer) by a combination of map and settings that mean he is likely to lose before he has even set a foot on the map.

I ask you all a simple question: What game actually brought you to this site? Was it to play a freestyle, escalating, trench warfare, foggy game on Waterloo? Now just pause that outraged mind of yours for a second (which my threads seem to naturally create in many of you hardcore players). Be honest here. Did you come here to play that kind of thing? Or did you come here to play a good game of Risk? You know what I mean. You may remember (many thousands of games ago before you played this game far too much and ruined your own enjoyment of it) if you think really far back and try very, very hard. It was a game involving the classic map (or something similar), it was sequential, it was probably either escalating or flat. It was almost certainly a standard game. It was sunny. That's what the vast majority of players here actually want to play. A basic game of Risk. That's why they come here.

This site is losing members because it made the awful mistake of actually listening to you guys..though you all love to believe that CC ignores you terribly. CC-policy has been to cater for the hardcore, which is actually a fairly small percentage of the players on this site. That's why we have had a massive expansion in settings, because the hardcore gets bored of all the other settings after they've played thousands of games on them and have got their gold medals. They need more medals and therefore more settings. Of course this means that an ever increasing selection of the games available are not on settings or maps the casual gamer would even think of playing. ''But they can set them up themselves!!!" I hear you all cry. But I wager the new player is rarely immediately premium. He must join a game. As the settings have become increasingly unfriendly for the new player he must try and find a basic game of risk he can play. I remember trying to set up a new player some games about a year ago. It really wasn't easy. There was so little decent (for him) available. If he doesn't enjoy his first experiences here (when freemium) the new player won't buy his membership. In fact he will leave. That's why the membership is dropping.

So in catering for the hardcore players who frequent the various forums, CC made the mistake of developing their site for such players. In doing so they ignored the casual gamer they claimed to make this site for. The casual gamer wants to play a basic game of Risk. This game needs to be encouraged, not ignored. It is why most of the players actually come here. You all seem to wonder why the site membership is dropping. The reason is that there are less decent standard Risk games to play. This means that new members come here, see a mass of games they don't understand, and naturally become overwhelmed by the whole thing. If this site was genuinely for the casual player I should be able to search standard games and find 100 casual standard games waiting to go on basic maps and simple settings. Of course I can't anymore. And why? Because the casual player has buggered off. (I just searched 4-6 players escalating or flat, sequential standard sunny...74 games waiting of which about 15 were on even reasonably basic maps..) This site has got nothing to do with him anymore. The site is made for a hardcore of probably a thousand (at most) players. That's why the membership is dropping year by year and why, if CC is not very careful, they will finally lose their site. CC needs to get back to promoting Risk as what this site is about.

We need map categories and we need them yesterday. Also, we need to make finding basic games easier.

Currently, the new player comes in, and tries to start or find a game - what does he see? A shitload of incomprehensible options. So the new player inevitably gravitates towards the join a game page, and we all know that page is a total mess - it's actually a newbie trap. No one tells the new player he shouldn't use the join a game page, unless he goes to the forums, and happens to read the right threads - but even then, most people aren't going to bother, most people just want to try out a game so they go to the join a game and join whatever game they see first that has 1-2 spots left.

I think it's good to have options. I think it's good there's something for everyone. But those options should be organized in a sensible manner, that makes it easy and intuitive to find the game you want.

So what we need is, firstly, categories for maps. A few simple categories based on gameplay. Small, medium, large, complex, simple, standard, conquest. Not a very hard thing to do.

Secondly, we need to make sense of game options. All the new fancy novelty game types like trench or nuclear or assassin are fine things to have, but they should be hidden by default. The game options page should have a few simple options for creating basic games, and then an expand button for "advanced settings" that lets you select different game types. It's basic UI design.

Speaking of UI design, the site needs a revamp. Badly. It's not 1998 anymore.

The site should also offer speed games to new players. I mean, what has CC got to lose at this point? We've all heard the excuses, "no one will buy premium" and blah blah. But speed games aren't the only reason for premium, and it can already be circumvented by agreeing to play rt. Besides, if this current trend continues, there isn't going to be any premiums anyway. The sensible thing to do would be to just offer speed games for freemiums, limit them to one at a time, and once they get hooked they will get interested in casual games as well. Speed games should be the hook of the site, not some paid-for bonus that most people never get to see.

Alas, pointing out problems with CC is like pissing in the wind, as we've seen countless times. The admin doesn't listen nor care. All we get is superficial updates like medal pages, more stuff for the obsessive clan fanatics to drool over. And get-rich-quick scams like conquer cup.

The competition is also getting serious. If majcom ever gets rid of that horrible flash interface, it'll take over CC in a blink, I predict.

natty dread wrote:The competition is also getting serious. If majcom ever gets rid of that horrible java interface, it'll take over CC in a blink, I predict.

Games require Flash10+... So both CC and majcom need UI redesign

natty dread wrote:Secondly, we need to make sense of game options. All the new fancy novelty game types like trench or nuclear or assassin are fine things to have, but they should be hidden by default. The game options page should have a few simple options for creating basic games, and then an expand button for "advanced settings" that lets you select different game types. It's basic UI design.

We need this and can be created very easily.

There is also a need for Conqueror that will be respected for his HONOR not for his ability to twist the rules and misuse weaker players. After all CC should be game of HONOR.

I don't think that speed games are necessary. I take my self for example, I have premium for ~1,5 years and I haven't played speed game, and I don't plan to play in a near future.

I have some time for the thorts of the 'armless Chaangsa but cannot agree with you Goranz=Z on the necessity or not of speed games...I've played more than half my games here on speed (and many of those were speed games!) and that is why I am increasingly frustrated as an antipodean that there's just no body blody on-line let alone willing to pplay a speeder...less than 400 and it's not worth creating a game but increasingly those numbers do not show up for hours on end. Agree though that Clans are just little boys sitting around comparing penis size and that scares a lot of players away...me, I just carry secateurs!!!

Which is even worse btw. Flash is an ancient resource hogging monster that's well on it's way out and shouldn't be used anywhere.

GoranZ wrote:I don't think that speed games are necessary. I take my self for example,

"My self" is never a good example. You can't assume everyone else has the same experience just because you have it. What's the #1 reason of new people quitting the site before finishing their first games? "Oh, I have to wait 24 hours for the other guys to play? This sucks, I thought this would be realtime, I'm out of here".

natty dread wrote:What's the #1 reason of new people quitting the site before finishing their first games? "Oh, I have to wait 24 hours for the other guys to play? This sucks, I thought this would be realtime, I'm out of here".

I think I agree with this. Specially if this new player starts with bad rolls (and I'm not a dice complainer). Bad rolls + wait for 24hours = bye bye new user

I'm of the opinion that there should be a clear difference in the game between premium and freemium, but the current system is wrong.I would get rid of all number of games limitation and also of the speed game limitation...the excuse "no one will buy a premium anymore" is bullshit. There're plenty way to push users to buy a premium without give to the newcomers a bad light of the site.I know that lackattack is against add advertisement to the site, but have them for freemiums could be a good choice to push people to buy a premium and in the meanwhile it's a valuable way to make money to recruit 1 or 2 good programmers to help him with the updates. I don't know what type of advertisement he could use but for example something that force you to wait a couple of seconds before to take your turns (?)Again, a part the number of games....the rest of current premium / freemium difference is nonsense: who cares if my rank is silver or gold? I think he should go with something more important, like the access to some game options or a consistent number of maps only to premiums members.An example, you can play classic..but if you are bored of that classic game and you want to play something different you should be premium (just an example)

Another thing I would add to help newcomers is to have a sort of "tutorial" for the very first games...i don't know exactly but something like play against bots for example or a tutorial game that explain how to play the game itself. The new guy can learn how to play the game.

The scoreboard...I don't care so much about points, and my rank is a proof of it, but the current scoreboard is too limited and one way categorized? I know I'm not the best risk player in the world but I would play more games if I would have the possiblity to be ranked for something else than points. I know I will never reach the 4000 or 5000 points needed to be a conqueror....why not to have a multiple scoreboard where people is listed also for other things? maybe a player is not great with points but it's an excellent assasin game player (example).

But there're plenty things that can be done, and this just talking about the game side of the site...without taking into account the forum.Then, when users can register, play games now, and not in 24 hours, when premiums are happy to be treated like special customers, when the site is promoted on the web properly and to the current users can have an answer for the request ....the only thing that lackattack has to do is to give us a better UI and more updates...but afterall that is already his job.

Finally, MrChangsha, you took the words right out my mouth here:

Mr Changsha wrote:Might the site have become less friendly to the casual player, as there are increasingly fewer interesting PUBLIC team or even standard games available for the player who doesn't wish to exist on this site in a perpetual battle against other clans. Might it be true that not everyone wants to see their gaming as part of a greater cause? Surely that is undoubtably true. And might this purposeful explosion of clan based gaming have limited the gaming options of the more individualist gamer? Are there less good players now playing public games? Are the vast majority of open games now on 'tricky' maps set up by GRASPING high rankers attemping to farm the unwary on strange settings?

Why in the hell nowdays it's impossible to find someone who wants to play just for fun? Why no one with more than 1400/1600 starts a game in which spots are free for all? Why when I joined this site i was used to find tons of games in which people played just for fun and not only for points (that let me say..these points...what they give to you?)I understand the points concept, but really I would like to see more people play just for fun...sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...but who cares? Wasn't a game supposed to be played for fun?Where are those who were used to chat a bit with game chats while playing? nowdays it's just gl, gg (if you're lucky)....chat is used just for instruction in team games...I respect who loves clans, who try to climb the scoreboard...but I can't beleive there's so much people who cares only about that and plays just for that!

Really....lackattack is slow and he should give us more updates, but I'm also starting to think that the real issue of this site are the users themselves. So, you, yes you who play just for points, you who play just with higher ranks to not lose your precious points, you who start a open games just to kill some noobs, you who makes 5 minutes of math before to decide if a game is worth to be joined or not.....you should be the ones to go away and leave this site to those who want to have fun!

We shouldn't have a random map option, but a random player option. More games, more fun, more players, more users.

Last edited by thenobodies80 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I do NOT visit this site and I'm NOT Team CC anymore.All PMs are autobinned. If you need to contact me, you should already have a way to do it without using this site.Thanks to those who helped me through the years.

Mr Changsha wrote: I myself have postulated on whether the rise of the clan may have been the cause. This theory is naturally more esoteric. Might the site have become less friendly to the casual player, as there are increasingly fewer interesting PUBLIC team or even standard games available for the player who doesn't wish to exist on this site in a perpetual battle against other clans. Might it be true that not everyone wants to see their gaming as part of a greater cause? Surely that is undoubtably true. And might this purposeful explosion of clan based gaming have limited the gaming options of the more individualist gamer? Are there less good players now playing public games? Are the vast majority of open games now on 'tricky' maps set up by GRASPING high rankers attemping to farm the unwary on strange settings?

For of course the incredible increase in settings has also meant that it is now easier than ever to set up a game - on an unusual map - with strange settings and thus defeat the new or casual player. It is odd to think that CC have actually increased the prospect of farming by the expansion of settings. But it is surely true. It is hard to argue with that idea that the best players play on simple maps and simple settings and defeat the opposition squarely. Yet since my arrival on this site the opportunity to create an unholy combination of settings and map has been positively encouraged. This is not much fun for the casual player 'looking for a decent game of Risk'. And don't forget - you CC addicts reading this - that the vast majority of players on this site are looking for a 'decent game of Risk'. I know most of you have played so many games that you have managed to bore yourselves silly of the original game that brought you here, but you simply don't reflect the average gamer. Strangely, possibly unbelieveably, I actually do. And I know it is harder to get a decent game of Risk here than before. A game not ruined (for the average gamer) by a combination of map and settings that mean he is likely to lose before he has even set a foot on the map.

Very true.

natty dread wrote:I think it's good to have options. I think it's good there's something for everyone. But those options should be organized in a sensible manner, that makes it easy and intuitive to find the game you want.

So what we need is, firstly, categories for maps. A few simple categories based on gameplay. Small, medium, large, complex, simple, standard, conquest. Not a very hard thing to do.

Secondly, we need to make sense of game options. All the new fancy novelty game types like trench or nuclear or assassin are fine things to have, but they should be hidden by default. The game options page should have a few simple options for creating basic games, and then an expand button for "advanced settings" that lets you select different game types. It's basic UI design.

Yes, absolutely.

natty dread wrote:What's the #1 reason of new people quitting the site before finishing their first games? "Oh, I have to wait 24 hours for the other guys to play? This sucks, I thought this would be realtime, I'm out of here".

Mr Changsha has it exactly right.The individual wishing to play for fun and to win finds a dearth of standard games where experienced players wish to take part.Be brave all you clan members, and see what you can achieve on your own!

Over the years, i have told many people about this site,and always the lure was the old fashioned simple maps with simple settings...in the past, some joined, and some even became premium

But in the past year or so, they join and often leave without finishing even a single game.

Now i realize this is not a scientific sample, but a few months ago, when I tell a great friend with a passion for RISK about this place,and he joins but wanders off in overwhelmed bewilderment, it kinda makes me wonder.Actually, i no longer mention this site to friends,which is sad...

natty dread wrote:The competition is also getting serious. If majcom ever gets rid of that horrible java interface, it'll take over CC in a blink, I predict.

Games require Flash10+... So both CC and majcom need UI redesign

natty dread wrote:Secondly, we need to make sense of game options. All the new fancy novelty game types like trench or nuclear or assassin are fine things to have, but they should be hidden by default. The game options page should have a few simple options for creating basic games, and then an expand button for "advanced settings" that lets you select different game types. It's basic UI design.

We need this and can be created very easily.

There is also a need for Conqueror that will be respected for his HONOR not for his ability to twist the rules and misuse weaker players. After all CC should be game of HONOR.

I don't think that speed games are necessary. I take my self for example, I have premium for ~1,5 years and I haven't played speed game, and I don't plan to play in a near future.

ahhh.. you've gone off the deep end... I don't play casual games... if you took speed games away, I and MANY others would jet... the game was boring enough with 5 minute turns... but allowances should be made for noobs to find easy game/settings to play...

At this point, I can pretty much guarantee that if lack doesn't open up speed games for freemiums (even if it's limited to one game at a time) this site will fail in the near future. It's by far not the only thing that's needed to save the site, but it's essential. When 90% of potential customers walk away because of a certain thing, any sane businessman would ask thonself if that thing should be changed.

For discussion. I am pretty pleased with Conquer Club, appreciate what many have done, are doing and will do. I thank you and we should thank me and thank many others.

We can get into lots of data discussion -key maybe is the premium membership/profit of CC dropping so owner wants to shut down? Wish I knew more about the dude who did and does this. Thank you.

I sense few paid people, but hundreds of volunteers maybe thousands (depending on your definitions) doing things- running games and wars, training others in SoC and training academies and tool and strategies, , thousands as clan members, doing wars tourneys, medals, fora.big shout out for the map makers. I get thousands maybe ten thousand chatting in fora and game chat with thousands of games open

thank you .

P.s. I sense rhe owner appreciates this community and would let us do lots of cool things. How about we accentuate the positive and look not only at what is desireable but also doable.

What if there was a way to make it so the first few games a new player joins HAVE to be on the standard classic settings. Let's say 4-10ish games. That way they will realize that style of gameplay is definitely available and let them decide if they want to jump into the chaos of some more complicated but still great maps.

This is right on the money in my thoughts. I only found this site by looking up playing risk online after hasbro took there site down.

One thing I think that might help is to, as new members join a admin or a volunteer show them around and help them out,and yes everyone that joins. I was completely lost when I joined the site. I looked at my games played when I first joined and holy crap what was I doing. I played games and settings and got smoked. That being said I could of just gave up, but I do love risk so stayed but maybe a lot of players are just leaving.

I see it every day with the speed games there are a few players playing some pretty basic games. But a lot of the games up are freestyle games which your Internet speed, your pc speed, if you have clickes all and how fast you can hit buttons affect the game. Just not much casual about that. Not taking away from the freestyle players they do what they do.

This is just a thought. What if there where two scoreboards? One for freestyle and regular my thought to that would be that some of the lower ranked players might make it higher up the scoreboard thus keeping them around and possibly getting more premiums?

But I have been here over two years and yes it takes a lot longer to get games to fill, espically speed games.

KiIIface wrote:What if there was a way to make it so the first few games a new player joins HAVE to be on the standard classic settings. Let's say 4-10ish games. That way they will realize that style of gameplay is definitely available and let them decide if they want to jump into the chaos of some more complicated but still great maps.

I was thinking along exactly the same lines last night. I would actually go a little further. They should only be able to join standard settings on the classic map. Further, I would make these games only available to the ranks of corporal or lower to play by setting a limit for these 'private games'.

This would have a few useful functions:

1. Still no farming of new recruits2. Other 'weaker' players (maybe a game limit of under 100 as well?) would be able to get more practice.3. This would lead to a renaissance in the amount of standard risk games being played on this site.4. New Recruits coming here to play Risk (and I know 'Risk' has amazingly become a dirty word here..such is the collective delusion some in this community have been living under) would actually get four games of Risk.

KiIIface wrote:What if there was a way to make it so the first few games a new player joins HAVE to be on the standard classic settings. Let's say 4-10ish games. That way they will realize that style of gameplay is definitely available and let them decide if they want to jump into the chaos of some more complicated but still great maps.

No, that's counter-productive. Forcing players to a certain type of game is just going to turn them away. Not everyone wants to play the classic map, and frankly the classic map isn't even very good from a gameplay perspective. It's kind of imbalanced and too luck-dependent.

All the advanced settings should just be hidden, it should be made easy for players to start or join simple standard games - maybe there should be an extra button for it. But the advanced game options should still be available for those who wish them. Just hidden by default.

Also, I think the biggest decision of all is if lack wants to take this site seriously or if he just wants to keep it as a hobby on the side. I don't know what the site's income is, but if lack were to hire one or two (non-Filipino) programmers, the productivity of the site would increase by about an infinite percent.

KiIIface wrote:What if there was a way to make it so the first few games a new player joins HAVE to be on the standard classic settings. Let's say 4-10ish games. That way they will realize that style of gameplay is definitely available and let them decide if they want to jump into the chaos of some more complicated but still great maps.

No, that's counter-productive. Forcing players to a certain type of game is just going to turn them away.

I tend to agree. I loved Risk before coming to this site, but my very first game was on the Germany map. From the beginning, I wanted the availability of different maps. Plus, that way there's never a question by any new player as to whether "they only have this one map?" But I certainly agree they should be kept to the "normal" style of maps and with the advanced type of settings not available.

...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Fewnix wrote:For discussion. I am pretty pleased with Conquer Club, appreciate what many have done, are doing and will do. I thank you and we should thank me and thank many others.

We can get into lots of data discussion -key maybe is the premium membership/profit of CC dropping so owner wants to shut down? Wish I knew more about the dude who did and does this. Thank you.

I sense few paid people, but hundreds of volunteers maybe thousands (depending on your definitions) doing things- running games and wars, training others in SoC and training academies and tool and strategies, , thousands as clan members, doing wars tourneys, medals, fora.big shout out for the map makers. I get thousands maybe ten thousand chatting in fora and game chat with thousands of games open

thank you .

P.s. I sense rhe owner appreciates this community and would let us do lots of cool things. How about we accentuate the positive and look not only at what is desireable but also doable.

Cool?

Fewnix,you are little naive. Far,far before we had many voluntaires who work for free(chipV create many usefull scripts, map makers create almost all maps here)Person who are voluntaires ,work hes job from heart, and he doing things to be 100% great, he its not pay to work.ChipV create many script, voluntaire, but he whas in some problem with someone,and he quit, and script start dying.Here in CC voluntaires doing a very large job, in all aspect(map making, clans, tournaments, scripts). Unfortunatly lack only try to make money,and he implement Conquer Cup. Withouth voluntaires,i think that this site will not work. far before when i come here(in 2006) ,LAck whas open person, he take messages,and talk with people, and now,hes closed , not comunicate ,and you can not send messages,if you are not pleased with some situation in Forums.

It has already been mentioned. But I think the simplest answer is this. When a new person comes to this site, they instantly click on "Join A Game" and all they find at the top of the list are the games that have sat there the longest. They have sat there the longest because everyone who has been here a while are smart enough to not join them because they provide zero (0) entertainment. The newbie plays that game, realizes how much it sucks, and doesn't come back.

The number goes down because people get burnt out and tired of playing and leave. This is a natural thing, we just aren't replacing them with people like we should.

Some how the site needs to become more welcoming to new people. Get them involved in the type of games they are looking for. Which I agree with the OP, is similar to a game of risk. They need to be geared towards decent games somehow. And pushed away from the first 2-3 pages of "Join A Game."

jltile1 wrote:One thing I think that might help is to, as new members join a admin or a volunteer show them around and help them out,and yes everyone that joins. I was completely lost when I joined the site. I looked at my games played when I first joined and holy crap what was I doing. I played games and settings and got smoked. That being said I could of just gave up, but I do love risk so stayed but maybe a lot of players are just leaving.

The yarn craft social network ravelry has a user created and run welcome group. When new users join the site a member of the group is assigned to them. They send the new user an email explaining some key elements to the site and offering to help them out. A similar thing could be done here. It's a small solution that doesn't rely on lack