Last edited by unwindfilms on Thu May 22, 2014 3:51 am, edited 4 times in total.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:49 am

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

One hopes that they'll look to the most respected stories for inspiration, particularly the stellar superhero team-up stories told by the DC Animated Universe team in their run on Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.

That said, judging by Man of Steel, there isn't a good idea in the universe that these filmmakers can't ignore, misinterpret, or include only superficially. I don't know why they insisted on drafting a story that was both largely unattached to any particular great story and derivative of countless ho-hum ones.

Both Justice League and Justice League Unlimited are available on Netflix, if anyone's interested. Maybe Marvel was first to crack the nut in terms of getting a superhero team into the movies, but in terms of screen adaptations in general, the DCAU stuff up to the conclusion of JLU is unsurpassed.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:56 am

unwindfilms

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pmPosts: 882Location: Hobart Australia

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Ken wrote:

One hopes that they'll look to the most respected stories for inspiration, particularly the stellar superhero team-up stories told by the DC Animated Universe team in their run on Justice League and Justice League Unlimited.

That said, judging by Man of Steel, there isn't a good idea in the universe that these filmmakers can't ignore, misinterpret, or include only superficially. I don't know why they insisted on drafting a story that was both largely unattached to any particular great story and derivative of countless ho-hum ones.

Both Justice League and Justice League Unlimited are available on Netflix, if anyone's interested. Maybe Marvel was first to crack the nut in terms of getting a superhero team into the movies, but in terms of screen adaptations in general, the DCAU stuff up to the conclusion of JLU is unsurpassed.

I do not think they are going with a Justice League full on story yet. At this point, I am just glad that Wonder Woman made the cut and she seems to be depicted closer to the new 52 than the 70s series or the recent cancelled NBC one .

Gal Gadot will not be seem running like Adrianne Palicki in the WW pilot (See pic below)

I bring up Justice League specifically because I thought they handled Wonder Woman very well. In the comics, her portrayal--everything from her backstory to her personality to her superheroic activities--has varied wildly over the decades. The DCAU guys have a knack for taking many contradictory portrayals and folding them into one consistent version of the character that seems universal. They did it more famously with Batman and Superman, but they also applied the treatment to Diana, and I think she needed it the most.

If I were Snyder and Goyer, I'd be at the DCAU offices, beating the doors down for advice. I'd also be talking to guys like Grant Morrison and Mark Waid, who have a good grip on the histories of these characters and some good ideas of how to bring them into the 21st century without sacrificing the qualities that made them classics in the first place. I would ignore Dan DiDio at any cost, and possibly secret him away in warehouse somewhere with boobytraps all around the perimeter.

Unfortunately, I'm not Snyder and Goyer, and the guys who actually are Snyder and Goyer are convinced that they can tell these stories better than the people who can and have told good stories with these characters in the past. So it's a crapshoot.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 7:20 am

unwindfilms

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pmPosts: 882Location: Hobart Australia

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Ken wrote:

I bring up Justice League specifically because I thought they handled Wonder Woman very well. In the comics, her portrayal--everything from her backstory to her personality to her superheroic activities--has varied wildly over the decades. The DCAU guys have a knack for taking many contradictory portrayals and folding them into one consistent version of the character that seems universal. They did it more famously with Batman and Superman, but they also applied the treatment to Diana, and I think she needed it the most.

If I were Snyder and Goyer, I'd be at the DCAU offices, beating the doors down for advice. I'd also be talking to guys like Grant Morrison and Mark Waid, who have a good grip on the histories of these characters and some good ideas of how to bring them into the 21st century without sacrificing the qualities that made them classics in the first place. I would ignore Dan DiDio at any cost, and possibly secret him away in warehouse somewhere with boobytraps all around the perimeter.

Unfortunately, I'm not Snyder and Goyer, and the guys who actually are Snyder and Goyer are convinced that they can tell these stories better than the people who can and have told good stories with these characters in the past. So it's a crapshoot.

I like Geoff Johns and Jim Lee from DC. I personally own and liked The New 52 Justice League Origin and it is my perception that the new 52 universe is more or less well received from Comic Book readers. I would think that Chris Terrio will talk with them and probably others from DC in reworking the script. Warner Bros very likely would have made (or will make) some surveys about what the general public wants. I hope that they learned to stay away of the WW depiction that NBC tried to pull . Anyway, I know this film will not be JL yet but having the 3 most interesting and popular members will make it a very good appetising

I think it's going to do very well and I believe it will be a great film.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 3:21 pm

MGamesCook

Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pmPosts: 1845

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Thief12 wrote:

I can't help but keep thinking that this is a huge bomb in the works.

At least $150 mil opening weekend. The chances of that not happening are around the same as those of the sun not rising tomorrow.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 4:45 pm

Thief12

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:35 pmPosts: 822Location: Puerto Rico

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Thief12 wrote:

I can't help but keep thinking that this is a huge bomb in the works.

Vexer wrote:

I think it's going to do very well and I believe it will be a great film.

MGamesCook wrote:

At least $150 mil opening weekend. The chances of that not happening are around the same as those of the sun not rising tomorrow.

Maybe, maybe not. But in its effort to catch up with The Avengers, I keep getting the feeling of a rushed, pulled-by-the-hairs, cash-grab. Not that The Avengers wasn't a cash-grab, but at least they took the time to develop a foundation first and the audience responded accordingly. Maybe this will make money, but will it be *good* despite such a rushed-up production? will it leave audiences wanting more? If it ends up being a bad apple, it might spoil the other franchises the studio wants to release. It's a risky move, no matter how we look at it.

Not that The Avengers wasn't a cash-grab, but at least they took the time to develop a foundation first and the audience responded accordingly.

That's part of what made it so despicable. Several of its setups weren't even movies, just big budget trailers for Avengers. That's really what makes The Avengers the biggest budget film ever made: each one of its trailers cost $150 million. And even after all that, The Avengers itself is just another trailer: for "phase 2." From what I can tell, Marvel is locked in one large, endless commercial campaign that leads to nothing.

At least DC is taking it one film at a time. Justice League's success depends entirely on the appeal of Snyder's new movie. And that's as it should be, not just with JL but with any and every movie franchise in existence. Anything else is blue balls crap where expectations are always deferred instead of fulfilled: the definition of filmmaking by committee instead of one person's vision. In a world of endless postponement and deferment in movie franchises (Hobbit, Hunger Games, X-Men, Amazing Spider-Man), I appreciate DC for finally just getting to the point.

Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:32 pm

unwindfilms

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pmPosts: 882Location: Hobart Australia

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Thief12 wrote:

Maybe, maybe not. But in its effort to catch up with The Avengers, I keep getting the feeling of a rushed, pulled-by-the-hairs, cash-grab. Not that The Avengers wasn't a cash-grab, but at least they took the time to develop a foundation first and the audience responded accordingly. Maybe this will make money, but will it be *good* despite such a rushed-up production? will it leave audiences wanting more? If it ends up being a bad apple, it might spoil the other franchises the studio wants to release. It's a risky move, no matter how we look at it.

I am in total agreement with MGamesCook that chances for this film to bomb are Nill and a full on Justice league production will depend in how successful this film is. A full on Justice League movie box office potential is around 1 Billion dollars and Warner Bros will not rush it up and squander that potential.

Bringing another writer besides Goyer , in this case an Oscar winner is a good sign. Also it would be good that Chris Terrio should talk with DC writers as Ken suggested and for sure Warner Bros has its focus groups

I should've phrased it different. It probably won't bomb financially, but I don't think the film will end up being that good, and as a result, I don't think it will be as well received as The Avengers.

For what it's worth, I haven't seen The Avengers, or even most of the recent superhero films, so I'm just offering my outsider perspective.

I feel like this movie is just going to be all style over substance and will be bloated and overlong.

Sat Dec 28, 2013 2:23 pm

MGamesCook

Director

Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:44 pmPosts: 1845

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Thief12 wrote:

I should've phrased it different. It probably won't bomb financially, but I don't think the film will end up being that good, and as a result, I don't think it will be as well received as The Avengers.

For what it's worth, I haven't seen The Avengers, or even most of the recent superhero films, so I'm just offering my outsider perspective.

Oh, in that case I agree. It has a pretty decent chance to be better received than Man of Steel but matching Avengers will be an up-hill battle. I think it will outgross Steel worldwide, perhaps by a lot or perhaps by just a little.

Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:55 pm

Ken

Director

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 6:26 pmPosts: 1728

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

unwindfilms wrote:

I like Geoff Johns and Jim Lee from DC. I personally own and liked The New 52 Justice League Origin and it is my perception that the new 52 universe is more or less well received from Comic Book readers. I would think that Chris Terrio will talk with them and probably others from DC in reworking the script.

Johns definitely has his heart in the right place. I can't say I'm a big fan of Jim Lee. He's popular, but for my money, he typifies the '90s style of artwork where everything is really busy and hyped up, but the characters don't show much visual individuality. He tends to draw on just a handful of stock body types, faces, and poses, and his dense line work makes the stories move slowly to my eyes.

That's more of a general gripe about Lee than anything to do with his Wonder Woman art specifically, mind you.

One of my favorite modern day Wonder Woman stories is Spirit of Truth, written by Paul Dini (of the '90s Batman cartoon) and Alex Ross. Normally, Ross's photorealistic paintings are better-suited for poster art, but Dini's script was written specifically to be sparse and let the visuals do most of the work. Ross is a big stickler for giving his characters individual looks. Identical twins aside, no two faces or bodies look exactly alike, and that's something he tries to keep in mind with his art.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Sat Dec 28, 2013 5:51 pm

unwindfilms

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pmPosts: 882Location: Hobart Australia

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Ken wrote:

unwindfilms wrote:

I like Geoff Johns and Jim Lee from DC. I personally own and liked The New 52 Justice League Origin and it is my perception that the new 52 universe is more or less well received from Comic Book readers. I would think that Chris Terrio will talk with them and probably others from DC in reworking the script.

Johns definitely has his heart in the right place. I can't say I'm a big fan of Jim Lee. He's popular, but for my money, he typifies the '90s style of artwork where everything is really busy and hyped up, but the characters don't show much visual individuality. He tends to draw on just a handful of stock body types, faces, and poses, and his dense line work makes the stories move slowly to my eyes.

That's more of a general gripe about Lee than anything to do with his Wonder Woman art specifically, mind you.

One of my favorite modern day Wonder Woman stories is Spirit of Truth, written by Paul Dini (of the '90s Batman cartoon) and Alex Ross. Normally, Ross's photorealistic paintings are better-suited for poster art, but Dini's script was written specifically to be sparse and let the visuals do most of the work. Ross is a big stickler for giving his characters individual looks. Identical twins aside, no two faces or bodies look exactly alike, and that's something he tries to keep in mind with his art.

Cool WW pic ! I will try to find that story and read it In regarding to Jim Lee. I find interesting that he is trying new things, some did not work (at least for a majority of readers) like giving Wonder Woman pants others take a while to grow up on you like the new Superman costume. I read that for this movie the Superman costume is being tweaked a little bit and Batman will wear a costume never seen before in movies.Hope that they stay away of the pants for WW HaHa

I prefer the classic look with the skirt, but as long as they stay away from the Frank Miller star-spangled bike shorts, I'm good.

_________________The temptation is to like what you should like--not what you do like... another temptation is to come up with an interesting reason for liking it that may not actually be the reason you like it.

Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:02 pm

unwindfilms

Assistant Director

Joined: Sat Feb 18, 2012 5:22 pmPosts: 882Location: Hobart Australia

Re: Batman, Superman & Wonder Woman 2015

Ken wrote:

I prefer the classic look with the skirt, but as long as they stay away from the Frank Miller star-spangled bike shorts, I'm good.

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman producers stay away of this WW costume design (See pic below) if You want Ken to at least go to see the movie.

Everything looks ok to me. No issues with the casting or the director whatsoever. I have to admit I would like to see Batman beat Superman up tho, as gloriously detailed in in Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, Part 2. That was strangely satisfying.

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