Blog

Even The Young & Healthy Are Getting The Coronavirus

Rich, famous, royal, powerful? Covid-19 don't care!

by Adam Taggart

Covid-19’s exponential spread across the world continues unabated; except in China, where the rate of officially reported new cases has slowed dramatically.

At the same time, cases in India are on the rise.

Might India be the next big outbreak trouble-spot? Time will tell.

Meanwhile, this honey badger of a virus shows that it “just don’t care” who you are.

We are getting more reports of young & healthy people getting hit hard. Rich, famous, royal, powerful — it doesn’t matter, all socioeconomic strata are coming down with it:

We’re also seeing more reports that social distancing, PPE and good hygiene practices really do make a big difference — so keep up your efforts, folks!

At the end of today’s video, Chris mentions our book Prosper! and its relevance to the changed world we’re entering into. More information on the book, which is a great read for anyone currently under home lockdown, can be found here.

We’ve written this to be a comprehensive collection of the resources you need to stay safe, sane and solvent through the covid-19 crisis. It’s a great tool for getting everyone in your household on the same page — print it out and have them read it.

Making masks

Huge shout out to Chris for having me purchase n-95's when they were still available. Also to a couple other PP members who helped me compile information concerning facemasks. My wife's pharmacy crew will be showing up with glasses and masks tomorrow, those working at the counter will have n-95's. She is taking action on her own as she waits for plexiglass to be installed within the next couple weeks. The outsides of the masks will be sprayed will a 30% saline solution and used masks will be placed directly in paper bags to be sterilized in home ovens. The wife and our neighbor sewed 2 dozen in the last few days. The neighbor is now sewing 50 for a clinic in town. Here is a link to the pattern. You can certainly sew is a high filtration rate furnace filter or vacuum bag if needed. We went with elastic all around the head instead of just ears. The largest size works well for most. https://www.craftpassion.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/?

centroid said:

WATCH THIS CHRIS OR ADAM!. i’m an Australian and this is “a national press club” interview (government sponsoered) with “experts” in epidemiology etc and in particular at around the 36 minute mark where 2-3 of these experts say masks don’t matter:

First Time Since January That I've Really Been Upset

He's gonna do it...donny...talking like he's gonna send everybody back to work next week, and pretend it's all taken care of. Watching the presser now. They are actually telling themselves they can control it--because they've LEARNED so much already, that they can do some kind of tracking by zip codes to identify hot spots.

Fauci made the mistake of speaking his mind last week-end. Now he's not on the stage. But, pooh, what does he know anyway? His absence wouldn't be because he didn't approve of the plan, would it?

They are going to order people back to work, and send the infected back among the general population. Two weeks was all they needed. "Great knowledge was gained." They think people not touching surfaces will matter, as if that's the only means of transmission. They're talking about opening the schools again, too, because kids never catch anything at school and bring it home, do they?

They are going to kill uncounted numbers of people by this action. If they re-open everything next Monday, by Easter it will have exploded. There's no one to stop him either. Because Dow Jones. Because Boeing. Because "great big beautiful businesses." Because money. Because re-election. Because rally withdrawal.

How about adding zinc to the Vitamin C and D3

The gist of this government document is that Zinc ions in the cells can disrupt the ability of a coronal virus to replicate. I believe that while a regiment of zinc supplement will not stop one from catching the HB virus, it might "flatten the curve" by inhibiting the growth of the virus internally.

Airplanes, Buses, Waiting Rooms?

The coronavirus can survive on surfaces for up to 17 days, a study published Monday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.
The study examines two public health responses to COVID-19 outbreaks on the Carnival-owned Diamond Princess ship in Japan and the Grand Princess ship in California.

An interesting perspective on the required balancing act

The question is, do our leaders have what it takes to, without bias, find and implement the necessary balance of actions that will do the least amount of harms on all fronts. I personally am not optimistic...

Barr??

Did you actually watch the presser today? (I can't bring myself to do it.) If so, what the heck was Bill Barr doing there? Did he speak, or answer some questions?? Nothing on the national news about Bill Barr. Just the wartime consigliere, at the boss's side??

Does the Flu Shot Increase COVID-19 Risk (YES!)

An excellent newsletter by Dr Michael Murray answers the following questions:

Does the flu shot increase the risk for coronavirus infection? YES!
Could a new flu vaccine be partly responsible for the COVID-19 mortality rate in Italy? YES!
Is the rush to a vaccine the best solution? No, it could bring catastrophic results.
How does the SARS-CoV-2 infect and are protease enzyme supplements the key to creating our own endogenous antiviral protease inhibitors? Yes, I believe so!
Are there certain medications like blood pressure drugs and proton pump inhibitors that increase risk for infection and mortality? YES!
Is it chloroquine or is it zinc that is working as a possible aid in treating COVID-19? A strong case can be made for zinc!
Can plant polyphenols and flavonoids act to increase the antiviral effects of zinc? YES! And they possess other benefits too!
Read the full newsletter here: https://doctormurray.com/does-the-flu-shot-increase-covid-19-risk/

Well, The Prez can imply what he wants...

...but here on Maui we start lockdown on Wednesday and it's to remain in place for 5 weeks (until 4/30)...

Running around getting my last ducks in the row, and supplying my son and his mother (who have been self-quarantined since Saturday). I'll make a run every Monday to re-supply them with whatever they need (that I can get). There is a cutout in the lockdown for those who are traveling to "support dependents or the shut-in"... I buy what she and he need, then leave it on their doorstep. She does the decon, and they're good for the next however long.

I'm going out to the off-grid land my sweetheart's family owned. About 30 people once farmed and lived there. Going to get some gardens started. Before long we'll have food, regardless of what the JIT economy wants to do...

Press Conf.COVID19

I can't handle watching the press conferences anymore. Such a bunch of brown nosing and lies, plus a lack of social distancing. I had been fairly satisfied with Trump to this point but science is not winning out. I guess the ship USA is going down.

But many of us prepped and studied what was possible within our own communities and extended family/friends. That is what will matter ultimately, not dependence on the feds to come to the rescue.

We grow 136 kinds of seed in my county. We have irrigation water so watering is controlled all summer. Everyone I know has chickens and knows how to preserve the food grown on trees and in the gardens.

(Not true for Boise, ID 25 miles away) No one talks about the gangs who will want to steal other's labor results. That will be more of the unraveling of our society.

Mask making

Not going to work, oh Lord, a ramble vent

Okay, in normal times I am what you might call a bleeding heart tree hugger.

I am overly empathetic to the pains of others.

I am confused by the sudden concern about starving kids not getting school lunches now. Nobody cares about hungry children in normal times. Oh now we send kids home, suddenly everybody is worried about the children. Where was this concern before?

Oh and small business. Everybody is worried about saving small businesses. On January 1st, everybody was shopping at Walmart. NOW people have to stay home, they are worried about locals bars. WTF, if you are so worried, why have you never gone to those places?

Thanks for letting me rant.

My husband has stage 4 cancer and insists on running around town. He believes what Trump said, it is no big deal. He loves Trump and does not understand why "liberals" want to destroy business.

I have played him Peak Prosperity stuff and he was on board, but backslid. Hey, I am just his tree hugger wife, so I don't know anything.

But he did "let" me buy 3 months of supplies, even if he thinks it is all a plot against Trump.

---------------

I live in Virginia and doubling the amount of sick every 4 days, we will be in a very bad place by Earth day.

Nobody is really doing the stay-at-home thing. Nobody is wearing a mask...….

karenchantal said:

I thought they did say it was an avian flu. Can it come back? Oh that gets into territory about viruses escaping from permafrost in Siberia and wiping out humanity, lol. So I hope not, but I have no clue.

Actionable Intelligence for sure :)

Thanks so much Chris! We have been following your work since 2010 or so and following your excellent videos since end of January- we are grateful for your help to help us get ahead of the curve. We have shared the links to more than 20 people and shared on a Discord server used for an online class. In our county of 26,000 in central Texas, we now have 2 confirmed cases - one at home and one in the hospital. The adjustment reaction video we shared with time codes so people could watch quickly and start on their journey to resilience. Make sure to rest and take good care of yourself!

Brendon. you disgust me - I didnt want to even reply

I am not sure this is even worthy of reply. As you have serious adjustment disorder and probably severe enough to need a psychologist.

Anyway, the politicians are now mostly doing what has to be done. They made mistakes and the mistakes where to let is get this bad before acting. Of course they may be smarter than us here - knowing people like you would laugh it off, and if they jumped too early, they probably would have lost so much credit by the time they needed to take action , none would be taken because of people like you. So, they are right.

Believe me they are advised and have a think-tank of advisers working on all the scenarios. You obviously have no ability to see what you propose would do. That is ok , that is the difference between genius and average IQ. But let me draw out more of a madmax for you. Right now people are home not working.. people are safe, no one is rioting, people should have food. ( if you listened to the CDC a month ago ) no one is getting killed and there is no madmax deal going on out in public..

On the converse of what you want to do - let everyone do what they may and let chips fall. Oh tell the oldies to stay home like they are all worked out and wheel chair bound. The problem is what you describe is reckless disregard for human life - as you know it will kill many , and the many it will kill is not your demographic.. that is very non empathetic , rather short-sighted and rather psychopathic and narcissistic.

But let me paint the better picture for you, hundreds of thousands of not tens of millions get sick in less than a few weeks. The hospitals have only enough resources to treat 1% of them the other 99 are left on their own.. people start dying on the street, that could have lived with supportive care , like IV fluids, antibiotics, antivirals, oxygen, ventilators, anti-inflammatories. Then because the hospital staff and resources are so low, people that are in need of hospital for other reasons, cancer, surgery , injury , secondary bacterial infections, heart disease, autoimmune diseases , inflammatory disease, food -poisoning, car-accident and sport related injuries, dog and animal and bug bites etc. all can not get treatment - many young and with nothing apparently fatal. All can becomes victims and parish.. Practitioners start to make mistakes because of fatigue, so do pharmacists. Many quite or walk off the job because they cant handle it anymore - some get sick and infected.. some are great risk because they have medical conditions themselves or are just over 40 as you say. There is your madmax you speak of. That is a guaranteed scenario. If we do as you say. That is not a maybe. People start rioting when their loved ones die when no one did anything .. or when your neighbor got the vent and you didnt. or when a 65 year old is getting the antibiotics your child should have gotten when there is none left/ You tell me how madmax this will will look? No one prepared. no one on home isolation.. people not prepared and educated on hygiene and no one thinking its more than the flu.

You need to run the scenario in your head. what an over-whelmed medical system looks like. Not just people sick with this will die.. everyone who needs a doctor or hospital will die. Now, if we all were ok with accepting that there is no given medical care for anyone (like there was never such a thing that existed.. and let the chips fall where they may ) Then maybe we could all be good. and and go on like people did 500 years ago.. with pandemics being a way of life claiming as much as 1/3 of the world. It would be nice - as we do need to thin the population, but which 1/3 and who ? and are you ok if your child that loses or your mom? and if your mom is elderly she is probably ok with it.. but believe me if you have small children and they are going to lose a mom or dad without a fight.. you are wrong.. or someone loses their wife or husband and has 6 kids.. its going to go over well.

Well enough with this rant.. You have no empathy.. if you want to put dollars before human life - i guess, as people without money can die because of lack of it. And if things go mad max because of no money flowing in the economy, its not bad as you say - our system is screwed up.. where is the harm - you can only lose money if you have it.. so who is this going to hurt? if its really bad.. ? the rich. however, if it doesnt destroy us and mad max us, the rich will probably profit in the long run from it. So in the end, you worry about mad max scenario.. but complain about the economy. basically the two shall never cross in your fears. If you have one , your one fear is irrational, if you have the other, the governors have ruined nothing.

Stay at Home Order Issued 3/23/20

Greetings Everyone from Gainesville, Alachua County, Florida. Just got an alert stating Alachua County has issued a stay at home order beginning midnight 3/24/20. Sounds good, but there is a long, long list of businesses that will remain open, including but not limited to, laundry mats/drycleaners, hardware stores (very happy about that!), small businesses with less than 5 employees and no interaction with public, airlines, taxis, office supply stores, of course banks (we'll see how long), hotels, motels, factories, warehouses, daycare centers with restrictions, construction sites but those are on the chopping block, ...... and more.

It would have made more sense to list the places that actually closed! Here's the link:

Good News on the Grass Roots Front. Ran into an old friend today who is steady making face masks along with a group of people coordinating the acquisition and distribution of materials, sewing, and then the distribution of the finished product. Thought Chris would like to hear about that.

Another shout out to Chris, just planted 60 feet each of cucumbers, watermelons, cantaloups, and honey dews - all on fence lines, and a 60 foot row of Seminole pumpkins out in the orchard, those suckers will grow 50 feet in every direction. We have lot's more seed to plant. So fortunate I'm with a group of people who see the worth in planting a big garden right now.

It would be very foolish not to anticipate supply chain disruptions.......

Large share of hb-19 deaths in Stockholm are Somalis – vitamin D deficiency?

It is claimed that a dispropotionally high share of deaths in Stockholm due to hb-19 have been Somalis. There could be several explanations for that; it could be that their culture involves more close contact with others, that they often live in more cramped conditions. But that would also apply to several other migrant groups. I’m thinking that it could be that they, being dark-skinned and living in a cold climate, naturally have much lower levels of vitamin D and thus have a disadvantage in fighting infections. It is said to be at least 6 out of 15 in Stockholm.

No Thank You

Thanks Gallantfarms - quercetin phytosome

The Dr. Murray newsletter was quite interesting. I followed the link to the paper regarding quercetin uptake and the data was quite convincing as to the improved absorption/bioavailability of this form. I went ahead and bought some - though not from his source.

This is very analogous to liposomal Vitamin C, which is also very, very well absorbed based on the same principle. The potential relationship between what Italy is going through and the new flu vaccine is also very interesting.

vitamin d deaths

I would love to see levels of this on people that died. I think there are people doing this kinds of studies now., but yes dark skinned people in northern climates, are at risk of deficiency. We did see some association studies with H1N1 with this.. Who knows.. I want to know what is going on in italy. I would not think there is a problem with vit d there.. but someone broke out a study that shows its a bit worse than here in the US

Microexposure Can Act As Inoculation?

Wondering if tiny levels of exposure, which many of us no doubt have had or will have, could be critical to averting a full-blown crisis. Chris is the only one I've found who remarks on the correlation between size of the inoculum and severity of the disease. Perhaps there is a MUCH higher percentage of the population "slightly" infected than is reported - particularly in populations that have taken steps to limit exposure. Would like to learn more about this.

umaperegrina said:

I'm going to say that you sound like anything BUT a helpless wife. There are times when it works to go with the flow, whether it aligns with your heart or not, and times when you need to assert what you know. Right now, I applaud the kind of ferocious spirit I see in you.

So....what's happening with the virus in Russia, anyway?

I know we're all supposed to think of Russia as a bad actor, but hey, they are a major actor in this world, especially related to oil production. Don't think Chris has them on his "cases" list. May be lack of info coming from there, or tainted info, but that's true of several other places. Just wondering.

Granny - Fauci

I heard he went to court over this back in the day: http://www.bio.net/bionet/mm/immuno/1999-October/014859.html

That's just a usenet post so that particular slant may be biased - but he's had his fingers in the cookie jar for a long time. Not that he's different to any of the rest of those folks who head major public bodies. Their net worths never seem to match their salaries. But - no - I'm not a fan.

Mark_BC said:

In Canada health officials insist that masks do nothing. One doctor even said a couple days ago that he gets a knot in his stomach when he sees a pleb wearing a mask because he says they should be reserved for medical personnel. Huh? Why do medical personnel need a mask if he just said they make no difference?

Microinfections - Great Question

Wondering if tiny levels of exposure, which many of us no doubt have had or will have, could be critical to averting a full-blown crisis. Chris is the only one I’ve found who remarks on the correlation between size of the inoculum and severity of the disease. Perhaps there is a MUCH higher percentage of the population “slightly” infected than is reported – particularly in populations that have taken steps to limit exposure. Would like to learn more about this.

Great question Incredible.

Chris did a good section on "viral loads", in a past video discusses that even if non-N95 masks don't protect to the level of hospital standards, that they are not useful is wrong.

The idea is that you do get microinfections, and because the amount of viral exposure you get is less than what your immune system can fight off. Enough time of having this happen, probably does mean you build up a level of antibodies and do not activate your cytokine storm mechanism.

Its when someone gets hit hard and long, like health care workers, that the viral load is overwhelming and crashes your system before it can mount a defense.

Goldielocks Effect - Russia

I know we’re all supposed to think of Russia as a bad actor, but hey, they are a major actor in this world, especially related to oil production. Don’t think Chris has them on his “cases” list. May be lack of info coming from there, or tainted info, but that’s true of several other places. Just wondering.

There seems to be a sweet spot north and south, of temperatures. The major outbreaks are happening in a belt, where Russia is a bit too far north to be in right now. As Summer gets going though, that belt is going to move north and hit Russia and Canada. Expect to see them begin to get major cases next month.

THAT'S NOT THEIR INCENTIVE

the virus is real......

I have severe hormonal deficiencies and immunological problems and I'm my mid 30's.

because stress kills ,and because even in countries like Belgium,France that are both sharing the second place as most taxed countries on earth with HUGE "health"-care expenses (offered basically free to anyone), the medical sector is an in-crowd, in-bred petulant pool of money hungry EGO-maniac FOOLS and MORONS being played like little puppets by the pharmaceutical ind.) .SPITTING IN HIPPOCRATES' FACE!!!

the world has been destroyed....using controlled demolition just like the twin towers...

All these young "victims" that keep popping up BECAUSE the population is not convinced (and rightfully so ) that EVERYONE YOUNG AND OLD should have STRESS....,be terrified,...and in doing so WEAKEN their IMMUNE SYSTEM JUST BY WORRYING.....HOW LONG WHERE THESE YOUNG VICTIMS INTUBATED?....HOW LONG IN ICU?....SOME DRAMATIC PERFORMANCES WHERE NO MORE THAN THEIR FACEBOOK VIDEO THAT WENT SO VIRAL AND MADE THE NATIONAL NEWSBULLETINS SINCE THERE IS NO JOURNALISM WORTH A DAMN ANYMORE JUST CLICK-BAIT HUNGRY "TREND-CHASING"......DON'T SEEM TO SUFFER FROM REDUCED PULMONARY CAPACITY AS THEY BABBLE AWAY HOW HORRIBLE THIS VIRUS WAS...(ONE EVEN STATING SHE WAS NO ACTRICE , NONO REALLY NOT.......JUST BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HONEST PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY , ADDING THAT SHE USUALLY NEVER PUTS EMOTIONAL VIDEOS ON FACEBOOK....."OSCAR-TIME BABY"

How many people died in Iraq?in Syria (not counting the 10 or more million displaced)....in Afghanistan?Libya?......Yemen........(i know it's apples and oranges but it DOES put things into perspective YES IT DOES.....IF THE VIRUS IS SO EXPLOSIVE THEN WHY AREN'T WE TALKING ABOUT THE MIGRANT CAMPS AT THE EU BORDERS....THE US BORDERS.......HMMMM???)

MILLIONS DIED FOR NOTHING, MILLIONS MORE WHERE MUTILATED...

If Angela Merkel and many others say 60-70 some say 80% will get the virus....and there is no STANDARD WORLDWIDE TEST......(I HAVE 2 FRIENDS IN QUARANTINE, ONE IN SPAIN IN HOSPITAL WITH A RELATIVE , JUST OUT OF PRECAUTION SINCE THE RELATIVE IS VERY WEAK AND IS A SPECIAL CASE, THE OTHER BECAUSE HER PARTNER HAS ADDISON AND SHE FELT A LITTLE SICK SO THE DOCTOR TOLD HER TO SELF-ISOLATE.....NÓ TEST.....).....

there has been ZERO transparency about the testing....and the TOTAL 100% SAFE number of quarantine days is "up in the air".......MUCH LIKE THE VIRUS...

THE PANDEMIC IS NOT THE VIRUS BUT THE WAY WE REACT TO IT AND IT'S NÓT A COINCIDENCE......ECONOMIC RESET, GET RID OF ALL THE OLD PEOPLE, DESTROY CURRENCIES,ABOLISH "VIRUS LADEN" CASH MONEY, HABITUATE PEOPLE THAT FREE MOVEMENT IS A PRIVILEGE FROM NOW ON......

I'm well aware I could die from the virus....I didn't think I'd make it till today so it's different for me, I've let go of THAT fear long time ago to happily live another day....BUT NOT IN SHACKLES THOUGH....

Greedy Marxist Society not Capitalism.

It's important that we define things correctly so we can call out the problem and solution. We do not live in a capitalistic society. We have a Greedy "Marxist" Society where the State comes first . Marxist since 1913 w/direct income taxation -->exacerbated by FDR's Marxist New Deal ---> and so and so forth. The current Keynesian monetary system is a Marxist philosophy.We also have corruption in the form of Bankers & Corporate lobbying (legal bribery) but that's corruption not capitalism i.e. free choice. Capital on the other hand just means the right to choose your future as long as you don't impose on others i.e. value creation. Having said that there is much work to be done to designate protection to the inherent subsidies that nature provides (w/out destroying it --fracking comes to mind). There have never been free markets because that would require both capital & labor to be free i.e. not taxed.

Greedy corrupt society

It's extremely important we define things correctly. Capitalism simply refers to the private ownership of capital. While capitalism is a necessary requirement for a free society is not a sufficient guarantee of the same. We do actually live in a capitalist society, just nor a free-market capitalist society. What we live in is probably closer to0 fascism than anything else. It really isn't Marxist though - at least when it comes to the ownership of capital.

Freedom is what is important. And you can't be free without the right to own a hammer and keep what you build with it - that's capitalism. But just because you have the right to own a hammer doesn't make you free. You need a great deal more than that, which we don't currently have.

Take a breath

olivierdelmorres, I know these are stressful times but caps and bold text come off in the worst way.

Peak Prosperity is a welcoming community, and yet its a community not a madhouse, not park space to abuse.

We love to discuss every thing, even subjects that make us argue. Sometimes passionately. Try please to be a member of that community, and share your thoughts in a rational and measured manner, not climb on a soapbox and rant.

TP hoarders need not fear

Barr made an announcement about hoarding and price gouging. (Didn't specifically mention the insulin industry though.)

He reassured people that they wouldn't be coming after anyone with an excess of toilet paper. They're supposedly focused on people with warehouse-fulls of masks and other vital supplies. Oddly, he failed to make reference to that reported* deal where donny attempted to get control of a German vaccine for the virus so he could hoard and price gouge it. Funny how that works.

*Edit: Since my reference to this vaccine story has been objected to, I will add that Snopes described the events as " have not been confirmed." Not the most strident of rebuttals. Given the somewhat murky and conflicting statements that emerged from Germany, I'm inclined to invoke the Boy Who Cried Wolf rule here when calculating the probability that it's true. Or perhaps Maya Angelou would be a better fit: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them."

serious illness italy

I am not sure i would classify any of those as serious illness. serious illness is anything that would make you un able to function because you are ill. - I would call this minor conditions. I have yet to meet a person with hypertension that is sick or looks sick. And since hypertension can start at anything over 120/80. id say we all have had at one time or another. So they would have to quantify that. my grandmother had hereditary hypertension , the type that is lke 300 over 180 not treated. She never had that as far as i know of but her family did. I do know , even treated I never recall her BP under 170/100. She played golf till 88 and ( competitively ) she walked ( id call it a slow jog ) till 90 ever day. She was sharp as could be had more energy than I did at 26 years of age. ( i have health issues non listed ) So, my point is she lived till 92 and only because of valve damage from the BP otherwise she would lived to 130 i think. and she was italian by the way. But, I wouldnt call her serious ill to look at her watch her lifestyle.. If people like this can die because of their blood pressure of anyone over 125/85 ,. I dont have a prayer. I know people with diabetes, feel good, no problems.. I have more neuropathy of unknown pathology, than does a diabetic.. I do not think diabetics feel ill.. or have issues again with lifestyle.. most dont even need meds or insulin.. so if diabetes 2 , is a serious illness, we are all f*&D. my point is these underlying conditions are bs.. they are taking the ones most peopel have that do not actually make them "ill" as an excuse for why they died.

Basically, 100% of the population about 35 yrs old where I live are medicated for some condition or another. Though I am ill, when i go to the dr , they are shocked i am not any meds.. as its almost unheard or here. And by the way though i am very ill, they do not have treatments to offer me. But the point is I am ill.. and would not fit this list. Yet all these people are ill according the drs and data but look fine to me. And.. bythe way , I call this just association not cause of dying of covid. meaning that by the time you are 50 most people have some minor insulin resistance "type2 " and some mild to moderate hypertension , none of this is signifcant or should kill you.. so I do not think there is cause of these people dying that is related to underlying health.. In china studies only 30 % had underlying health issues. it might be more age and immunity. and with age you get more conditions.. its not the condition that is causing the demise , its the age or another issue that is still unforeseen. My point what you call serious ill , i call conditions, but these conditions are manageable and even unmanaged , they do not kill you.. maybe after long periods , they can damage organs - but without that organ damage , in early stages of these conditions , i see nothing that would kill you from infection. So if they said , the patient died because he had heart faliure due to hypertension , i would say ok. But to say he died of hypertension and no heart failure, id say no you missed something. or to say , someone died of infection of type 1 diabetes because thier managed blood sugar level is 200.. and they immuno-compromised.. I would say ok. If someone has type 2 and a blood sugar of 115. , i say no way you missed something. if someone has cadiomyopathy , i say ok , yes. I mean there are conditions where you are compromised and there are conditions if not managed will compromise you eventually if they become severe. So, like you say serious illness. If they can quantify it as serious illness .. when they say diabetes.. saying its type1, poorly controlled... hypertension? no way.. it results in kidney disease, heart disease.. so yes heart issues..bad valves, enlarged chambers.. irregular rhythms.. low ejection fractions.. poor perfusion ok .. Hypertension , no...!// Afib? well yeah if not treated. but that is easy to treat and correct for the majority, except in the US. Cant imagine why Italians would have this.

My point is if i get a vague list of conditions like hypertension as a primary cause of one that dies in covid.. that is alarming to me.. I want to see more specifics there please.. hypertension is not a qualitative diagnoses , its a quantitative one, so give me a quantitative number for covid victims.. . same with diabetes, there is two types , one much more severe.. one very minor.. sugar just a bit high from sedentary lifestyle and age , and weight and poor diet.. but its usually very mild and this people are not suffering neuro problems and immune problems like someone with constantly sky high sugar levels/ so again give me a value.. or skip.. this feel good.. only unhealty one-foot in grave die crap..

Our USSA Society is Marxist and our Economic System is Marxist

The Keynesian economic Global generational deb based paper fiat monetary system is Marxist and the current society we have today is Marxist (just look at the entitlements) it is vastly different than the one we had prior to 1913 which was self-reliance, strong families, etc etc. Marxism has different flavors i.e. communism, socialism, feminism...it's all under the banner of equality that ends up in class warfare with total state control. In our case Marxism w/a dash of Oligarchy/Kleptocracy When you state Capital means private ownership that is correct in the sense it means individuals over the state. There are no free markets because both labor and capital are taxed.
Our current Marxist State/USSA believes that it is the embodiment of the nation instead of "we the people" which is why there was such a disconnect when Trump won in 2016. This Marxist paradigm cycle which started in 1913/direct income tax and will end with the sovereign debt crisis of 2020-22? will hopefully give us an opportunity to embrace what made America great..i.e. "we the people"

Goldilocks Temperature Belt?

Yeah, I dunno about that dtrammel. Seems to me that theory's falling by the wayside. I found one comment on the link you provided that speaks more to probability - that the more internationally-connected countries have been the first to get hit, and hit hard. That's certainly likely for Italy, imo, where the Chinese were highly present in the northern end of the country, building infrastructure (linked to their New Silk Road Initiative) and investing in Italian commerce. Similarly, Iran, a key part in China's Silk Road and where they've been investing in energy projects (with Russia, carving up the country's resources). Italy, in turn, spread the virus to Europe via tourists.

The commenter noted South Africa's high rate relative to the rest of the continent and it's higher international travel; ditto Brazil. And notes that Australia and Canada have about the same infection rates, are similarly linked to the world, but have regionally opposite temperatures. In addition, we're seeing the slow, persistent spread of Wuflu to the rest of the (less internationally connected) world, regardless of temperature and humidity.

Which also points to the slow evaporation of the hope summer will put a significant brake on Covid-19's virulence.

Mixed messages

Chris includes the conclusion that everything's changed and nothing will be as it was. I think that is very likely though I doubt anyone knows what we'll end up with. Does Chris know? He's promoting his book about prospering in that changed reality and even mentions financial prosperity. This sounds an awful lot like not much will change.

Re: Disappeared Fauci

He was conspicuously absent during the Presidents update. I liked the guy.

Thoughts?

Seems to me that the poor guy couldn't help sticking to logic and facts and that got him kicked off the stage.

President is an impatient fellow, it seems, and this whole virus thing has dragged on beyond his personal tolerance limit.

This messaging by the President and his team of "getting back to work" is going to get a lot of people killed. Unfortunately, I don't see much true leadership anywhere in DC on either side of the aisle so, as usual, this isn't a political statement by yours truly.

Just an observation.

Did you see the video or stills from the last Senate vote? Nobody was 6 feet apart. Not a mask to be seen.

The US is really screwed. Too few people 'get it' and too few of our national managers (not leaders) get it, which means the tuition cost of experience is going to be very high.

A New Narrative

However, if your the government the problems of a teetering economy can seem worse than a few dead people.

But, correct me if I am wrong. It’s the Governors of each State that determine the length of individual State quarantines. So how will this work? Government - “times up, we are done with quarantines”.. States - “no not yet we are not”. Oh boy, more political theatre, finger pointing and incomprehensible rhetoric.

Kansas

Our governor of Kansas is a medical doctor, so I have a bit more hope for my states covid 19 policy. She was the first to close schools for the rest of the year & switch to online learning. I’m being told to prepare for this remote teaching to continue into next year too. My nearby towns are all doing “shelter in place” starting today. Our covid numbers are still small, so maybe we have a fighting chance!
I loved Chris’s emphasis on starting a garden! I grow so much food & it can be done! Also a couple of backyard chickens will provide you with lots of eggs (50 a month) and manure for the garden. And like Chris said, the food is healthier and tastes sooo much better! I’d be glad to advise those with garden questions!!

Update II for Granny Grit

And anyone else who is interested. Quick background information: far northern California very rural FQHC clinic and how we're dealing with COVID-19. While we've had some confirmed cases for a while in the north state, the numbers are climbing. Here's the latest:

Family members of employees are coming home to shelter in place. Most are adult children. We had to make a decision about whether we would tell staff to stay home until we know these people have not brought the virus with them. We are way too small to keep many of our staff off for any length of time. Not to mention that most of what we do cannot be done by working from home. We made the decision to go case-by-case. Four adults from Humboldt and Sacramento (both of which have confirmed community transmission), two of whom have been completely ignoring social distancing or other infection-prevention basics; RN quarantined and working from home for at least two weeks. Two adult children and kids from Placer county, which is much more rural and has a few widespread infections; at work but wearing a mask. One RN who just had a heart cath and was hospitalized in a hospital with a confirmed case; quarantined. That means that of our three RNs, I'm it.

Because we got nailed with two feet of snow and a broken water main last week, we were closed to patients for four days. The bonus: we were able to immediately implement telephone visits. The disadvantage of telephone visits is that you can't see or examine the patient and unless they happen to have self-monitoring equipment like a blood pressure cuff or blood glucose machine, you are short on objective data. And obviously, some things we just can't do - no pelvic exams or procedures. Routine annual physicals are on hold as well. We already had a telemedicine program in place and we are in overdrive figuring out how we can best use it. Some of our peer clinics are trying to start telemedicine programs from the ground up right now - talk about an uphill slog!

Since we are literally making it up as we go along, things are changing minute by minute. We're creating laminated wallet/purse cards for staff (about half done as of yesterday) that identify them as employees and show their position, so they can present them if we get to the roadblock/mandatory enforcement stage. The cards have pictures of the individual, taken on the spot with a phone and downloaded onto the card. We're changing the telephone visit process so the medical assistant who would normally be rooming the patient (completing forms, checking blood pressure and such) calls the patient just prior to the visit. This allows us to get what data we can from those who have equipment like a home BP cuff. One of our providers has shared an office in a larger room we call "the dorm" because she was new to both the state and the organization. Since both the back office supervisor and I are in that room, she had ready access to us for questions. With the advent of telephone visits, we swapped her and the lead MA into a private office. That move took about two hours, while they "saw" patients from the office of a provider who was off yesterday.

We have a very small number of COVID-19 tests available and our supplier is unsure when we will have more. Public health is reserving tests for health-care workers and hospitalized patients. In other words, we have to assume that everyone is potentially infectious and we're taking every precaution we can to keep patients/family out of the building. At the same time, we have to balance that with the realization that we can't keep everyone out. We decided our chiropractor could see patients but we're calling them ahead of time to make sure they are symptom-free. We have them wait in their cars, not the lobby, and bring them in through a different door right next to his office rather than the main door (which means they don't have to walk the length of the clinic). We are going to appointment-only labs; we will have patients check in and then wait in their cars until we call them back. For those patients we're going to have to see for a face-to-face, we will probably implement something similar (but first we have to get our water tested so we can open up again).

Communication is a critical aspect of our practice at all times - even more so now. We developed a script to call our patients; it includes questions about internet access, confirms email addresses, whether patients can Skype or Facetime (since we're in the mountains, cell phones don't always work and internet access can be slow). We're checking to see who needs food, whether they are on oxygen or if they are snowbound. We have morning huddles with all staff (repeated at noon for major issues) and mini-administration meetings throughout the day.

Telephone triage is one of my primary responsibilities with both other RNs off. I triaged 18 patients yesterday. Most of those calls took me around 10 minutes. As with telephone visits, I am limited to what I can collect through careful questioning and even more careful listening. You'd be surprised what you can pick up by listening to the quality of someone's voice and breathing, or the sound when they cough. In most cases, I'm giving instructions for home care to manage upper respiratory infections, bladder infections or other issues. One woman called because her husband's blood pressure was 86/62 (normal is around 120/80) and his pulse was 117 to 140 at rest. He said he felt fine; she said he got light-headed when he got up. I had her look at the inside of his eyelid to see if it was pink (pale eyelid lining can mean a low blood count). Since it was pink, I had her push fluids for two hours. When I called her back, his BP and pulse were back to normal. So we kept a 75 year-old man with several chronic conditions out of the ER. In a couple of cases, I had a provider do a telephone visit to determine if the patient needed medications I couldn't prescribe (I can refill under standardized procedure, but not do a new prescription).

More to come, I'm sure. for anyone else in the outpatient care arena, I'd love to hear what others are doing!

"Human pathogenic coronaviruses (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus [SARS-CoV] and SARS-CoV-2) bind to their target cells through angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), which is expressed by epithelial cells of the lung, intestine, kidney, and blood vessels. The expression of ACE2 is substantially increased in patients with type 1 or type 2 diabetes, who are treated with ACE inhibitors and angiotensin II type-I receptor blockers (ARBs). Hypertension is also treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs, which results in an upregulation of ACE2. ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19."

Back of envelope calculation on number of infections

Again, not sure if covered already.

Wanted to clarify to someone here how many infections we probably have when we only see the tip of the iceberg. Based on a couple of assumptions.

In NY, if we have 20k cases; I assume that we can say that you have in reality 2-3 times that number of infections (asymptomatic and light sniffles, others that are not tested, this might actually be higher).

If you have a doubling time of number of cases of 3 days (as seen in many places) and you count with average incubation time of 5 days and possibly 1 day before testing (i.e. 2 x doubling).

The number of infections, present and in development would be: 20k x 2.5 x 2^2 = 200k infections.

If we'd count 9 days between infection and confirmation (or doubling is 2.5 days after 7.5 days: double that again: 400k infections).

Certainly off by a lot, but it does give an impression of where we might be in a specific location.

Case Study 355 patients in Italy of which 75% of fatalities had high blood pressure or Hypertension

Strongest correlation factor between fatalities and hypertension in Italy, now is that because as people age, more people are on BP med's or is their correlation. Secondly, guess whom is almost never on BP meds, children ... more research is needed, but i find this link is very interesting and believe further research is needed.

“Human pathogenic coronaviruses (severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus [SARS-CoV] and SARS-CoV-2) bind to their target cells through angiotensin-converting enzyme 2 (ACE2), which is expressed by epithelial cells of the lung, intestine, kidney, and blood vessels. The expression of ACE2 is substantially increased in patients with type 1 or type 2 diabetes, who are treated with ACE inhibitors and angiotensin II type-I receptor blockers (ARBs). Hypertension is also treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs, which results in an upregulation of ACE2. ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19.”

reply to nordicjack

If we did what Brandon suggests, the idea is to isolate and save the most vulnerable. The best information we have, large study from China + latest fatality and hospitalization estimates from Wuhan itself + Diamond Princess + heterogenous infection model implies that the disease will infect between 25% - 50% of the population in total, with young people significantly less susceptible than old people and with 2-10% requiring hospitalization (lower end amongst younger people).

So if we try to isolate the old people as far as possible, and did nothing else (and I'm not suggesting we do this) we could expect something like 100 million people to become sick, with perhaps 30 million at the peak and 1-1.5 million requiring hospitalization (the lower bound if we do manage to keep the elderly relatively isolated). This is too many people, so we need to flatten the curve by about 50% or so to keep things manageable - but I do think that level of flattening could be achieved without total lockdown.

The benefit of this plan is that herd immunity can be achieved without so many old and vulnerable people ever becoming sick. The whole point of the plan is in fact to protect the elderly by differentially allowing the young to be exposed and become immune while the elderly are protected.

One thing I'm not sure about is how well significant immunity amongst a younger group would work to protect older people. If older people largely socialize with other older people then it may not provide much benefit in which case this wouldn't be a good plan.

FYI - this is the best data site I have found - it really really has masses of really good data.

km64 said:

My understanding from watching that same press conference, Trump was talking about the measures to contain the virus, and to mitigate the economic damage, not the medical aspects of curing patients.

I could be wrong...

And as far as his tweet stating (roughly) "we'll see where we go after the 15 day stay at home period," isn't that prudent.

If it gets a lot worse in every state, then I don't think you'll see states lift their measures no matter what the President says or tweets.

Say this is contained in most states, but New York, Washington State and California are still experiencing epidemics. Does it make sense to have the nation totally shut down, or to start relaxing some measures. This is all up to the states after all. States are issuing the stay at home orders not the President. The federal government made recommendations, the states and cities could ignore them.

Hypertension and virus susceptibility

Strongest correlation factor between fatalities and hypertension in Italy, now is that because as people age, more people are on BP med’s or is their correlation.

Other studies show that hypertension, which is one symptom of cardiovascular disease, does not increase with age, rather it increases with the length of time a person consumes the Western diet. In the dwindling parts of the world where people don’t consume diets high in fat, meat and dairy, blood pressure goes down with age.

Sadly, I have been eating healthy for less than two years, after over 60 years on the Western diet. In that time I’ve reduced my blood pressure medication by 75%, but not been able to go off it entirely. I’m hoping to be prescription medication free by the time I reach 70.

There are other benefits to a healthy vegan diet going forward. First, vegans can grow enough food on far less than an acre, where omnivores require a minimum of several acres to support their richer eating habits, not to mention additional water, energy and effort. Second, vegans get essentially all the vitamins, nutrients and antioxidants needed from food, without requiring supplements. The supplement industry provides things that don’t exist in animal sourced foods, or in plant based foods that have had most of the beneficial content processed out.

23 March 2020 The day that sealed our fate

"All this caused great joy. Among the various
utterances of this feeling was the letter of M. Sarot,
directed to the editor of the Journal of the National
Assembly, and scattered through France. M. Sarot is
hardly able to contain himself as he anticipates the
prosperity and glory that this issue of paper is to bring
to his country. "

Tick, tick, tick... Canada

With a poll showing 20% of Canadians STILL think this is not serious, and are still demonstrating that ignorance through their selfish behaviours, Canada is heading for massive outbreaks in the next couple of weeks.

Making masks

Here is a photo of the facemasks being made by a neighbor's sewing club for our hospitals in Atlanta. They have a slot included for a disposable filter insert. A link is included below to a youtube video with directions for producing this mask.

Goldman Sachs says it is time to buy gold — the ‘currency of last resort’

The analysts that said with the Fed easing funding stresses, focus will likely shift to the large size of the Fed balance sheet expansion, increase in developed market fiscal deficits and concerns about the sustainability of the European monetary union.

“We believe this will likely lead to debasement concerns similar to the post [Global Financial Crisis] period,” they said.

# Of Cases Animation - Cool Graphic

Back of the envelope calculations of where we are [edited]

Extending Afridev's post above (#31 in this thread ), I have heard that the the ratio of actual cases to diagnosed cased is closer to 30:1 rather than the 3:1 Afridev used. (This is from an interview with Marc Lipsitch, Harvard epidemiologist, though I can't find the link where he gives this figure.)

The emergency physician closed facebook group reports that ALMOST NOBODY is being tested in many states at this time. Test kits are in short supply and do not help with care. It is now the consensus that the PCR test results do not impact hospital care, the decision to admit, what unit to admit to or the hospital treatment plan.PUI (persons under investigation for suspected COVID-19) who are hypoxic are admitted with a Do Not Resuscitate order as CPR is futile, and only infects the staff. Treatment is almost nothing: Tylenol, oxygen and a ventilator when needed. Experimental antiviral studies have overflowed and are no longer being offered.

Patients who are discharged from the ED are not tested, either. The PCR test is considered too inaccurate to guide public health measures at this stage due to 1) wide dissemination of the infection and 2) the very high percentage of carriers that are asymptomatic, and 3) the high numbers of false positive and false negatives with this test.

Right now in the big cities of the USA: cough, fever, infiltrate on chest x-ray and hypoxia is "viral pneumonia probably COVID-19". No PCR, No CT scans.

So, I am guessing that the 400K Afridev estimated for NY currently should be regarded as a low-end estimate with a high-end estimate of more like 4 million. [edited]

And in the next 2 weeks, possibly as high as 400,000, (10% of the actually infected), [edited] of these New Yorkers will need hospitalization.

This is horrible beyond all belief. The ER doctors are showing signs of PTSD as the magnitude of the human disaster is dawning on them. And we are not even close to the peak. Pre-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

New Fauci data point

Appearing Tuesday on WMAL’s Morning on the Mall, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, accused D.C. journalists of attempting to pit him against President Donald Trump and affirmed there is no rift between himself and the president on how to combat the Chinese coronavirus outbreak.

(Listen from 6:04)

A partial transcript is as follows:

VINCE COGLIANESE: It seems like increasingly a bunch of questions from the media are designed to create a rift between you and the President of the United States, at least, to emphasize differences of opinion that creates distances between you and the president. Are you sensing that as the media continually asks you questions about the differences you have with him?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI: That is really unfortunate. I would wish that would stop because we have a much bigger problem here than trying to point out differences. They really, fundamentally, at the core when you look at it, there are not differences. The president has listened to what I’ve said with the other people on the task force have said. When I’ve made recommendations, he’s taken them. He’s never countered and overridden me. The idea of pitting one against the other is just not helpful and I’d wish that would stop so we can look ahead at the challenge we have together to get over this thing.

But I agree with this:

The US is really screwed. Too few people ‘get it’ and too few of our national managers (not leaders) get it, which means the tuition cost of experience is going to be very high.

Herd Immunity?

Several months ago, the consensus was, no vaccine could work with Covid-19, because antibodies were not stimulated for very long. Then the narrative changed as hope tried to triumph over reality. Now all we hear is many attempts at vaccine development are being tried and herd immunity can be a thing. I think we are still working through the denial stage, here. Long, long way to go folks. Toughen up.

State-based restrictions

Hey AKGranny, I also wonder if there'll be restrictions on travel between states. How will that effect truckers and other transportation modes/businesses? Will people from currently high-case states such as NY, CA, and WA be barred from going elsewhere in the US? Once these states get their case numbers down, will they restrict travelers from other states just reaching their peaks? And then there's the patchwork of testing which complicates state-by-state comparisons of confirmed cases.

centroid said:

i wonder if the italians flood their bodies with too much simple carbohydrate (too much pasta) or maybe its the way they greet each other (causing droplet infection) that's causing the large amount of cases

centroid said:

when is the US going to do something morally right with its military, like invading Brazil and stopping the denuding of the rainforest. Of course the short term thinking of cutting down the rain forest is connected to the fiat money system which pushes everyones planning to short term thinking, it increases ones "time preference". Just read "the bitcoin standard"- by saifedean ammous. when you have hard currency, people are more likely to save using that currency for an uncertain futue, therefore it naturally pushes your thinking out longer term. the fiat money system is such a deep, deep cancer on our lives.

Bethgreenwood

It sounds like you and your staff have implemented creative ways to take care of your patients. Bravo on keeping the elderly gentleman out of the hospital.

Your updates are very interesting. Please allow me to suggest you keep a copy (printed) for yourself and your kids. We are living during a historical event and how you are creatively treating patients will be instructional and fascinating 30, 50 years from now.

You are providing an important, critical service. Well done Beth. Be strong and stay well!

Hammer and the Dance: State by State? One Size Does not Fit All

Note how the cases cluster in high population areas and along interstates. Please note also how few cases there are in Wyoming, North Texas, Kansas, North and South Dakota, much of Iowa...etc--all states with relatively low populations.

These lower-population states are also the most important energy-producing (coal, oil, gas) and food-producing (corn, wheat, beans) areas of the country...much of which is done mechanically, and does not necessarily involve a lot of people.

California relies on a lot of migrant labor to harvest its higher value ag produce...and as Chris has noted, those migrants might not be available for the next harvest or two. So this virus might take out lettuce, tomatoes, fruit, and a lot of other higher value crops...but perhaps not our staples if we find the right balance between social distancing and keeping the economy going.

So maybe, to find the right balance between the hammer and the dance, we should use different size-hammers for the less-populated areas of the country. One size probably does not fit all.

These facts and data argue for a more state-by-state approach to quarantine and social-distancing. For example, the governor of Wyoming might conclude to keep his state largely open so that they can continue to ship Power River Basin coal to Texas to keep the air conditioners on. By about mid-May much of Texas is going to be so hot that lives will be endangered without AC.

My conclusion is that Trump is probably right in suggesting that America can get back to work. Individual governors can decide what is right for their state and that would "trump" the President's suggestion. 🙂 (Sorry, couldn't resist it.)

My governor (Michigan) made the right call today to put our state on a three week emergency order to minimize social contact. The governors of Wyoming, North and South Dakota, etc., might be correct in making a very different decision, based on the characteristics of their own state, and how much other states/people rely on its products.

Execution of the hammer and the dance should probably be state by state; one size does not necessarily fit all in dealing with the HB virus.

Testing in the Bay Area, Hayward

sand puppy

If 4 million in New York are infected that might arguably be good news. The population of New York City is a little over 8 million, so 4 million infected would mean that we are already almost at the end of the outbreak there (best estimates based on hetergonous transmission models indicate 25%-50% penetration) and quite possibly very close to the peak in terms of hospitalizations. And if 4 million infections requires only 40,000 (only 1%) hospitalizations that would be incredibly good news and well below even my estimates. New York has 53,000 hospital beds and is adding more.

My guess is that there are not yet that many infections, but I agree there are likely far more than are currently being estimated. In Wuhan they now believe they were undercounting by 30-50 times. Since the current reported number is ~25,000 it might be reasonable to assume 750K - 1M cases. And I would guess that means the peak of actual infections will be in about a week when we hit 2 million or thereabouts, and peak hospitalization presumably a couple of weeks after that. The peaks might be a little later, say 7-10 days, if all the special measures have slowed the spread sufficiently.

Speaking of "border" crossers...

In the last few minutes, we (Spokane) have had a number of planes come in from different parts of the U.S. Why are these people flying at this point? It appears that passenger traffic is down 80% (time period?) so this means that most of these planes have few passengers. This begs the question of whether the Feds are concerned about global dimming. Are they paying airlines to keep flying regardless of passenger load?

I also tracked a business plane (Dassault Falcon 2000) that flew this a.m. from Coeur d'Alene ID to Sitka AK. As I commented a few days ago, I tracked a Learjet flying from Spokane to Sitka. This must be a popular spot for those with enough wealth to fly on private planes. (I suppose it's possible that they are medical flights, but that is doubtful.) There are many small islands in the Sitka area and that could be a reason for being a bugout destination.

Are there any commenters here who are from Sitka and might know why Sitka is popular with those who fly in on private jets? Fishing?

physical gold

Sorry to post this here, I have been searching PP but no luck yet. Does anyone know where I can buy physical gold quickly? the sites i have been searching are sold out and I am very unfamiliar with this and so is hubs. Thanks in advance! Feel free to DM if that is better!

Test for antibodies!

Test for antibodies!

Testing for antibodies to covid19 is sometimes mentioned in passing. It should be front and center. Those who have had the virus and have the antibodies to prove it, shouldn’t need to be in isolation. They should be able to go back to work, volunteer to help with the mildly ill, and generally resume their normal lives. This seems so practical and pragmatic that it should be self-evident.

Hey, all you medical and scientific people here–am I missing something. Shouldn’t this kind of test be easy and cheap? Wouldn’t it work?

Infection rates in the boonies

Bruce, you missed dividing by population density AND the fact that many of these people are far from even a small local hospital. The sick probably have no access to testing. oil activity in the dakotas has transients there also although at these oil prices, no more boom activity.

The correct rate is per capita. Take your numbers and divide by the state population, as Chris does for countries on the far right of his table. I don't have time, but it would be useful to look at the less populated areas in this way. It's so easy to present this data and nobody is doing it, so I assume there would be something to hide.

In our area of the midwest, we're seeing the spread county by county when the rural hospitals get test results back after a week or two. Have no clue what that means today.

I think one size, s Korea style might fit all. If less dense areas are shutting down earlier on the curve, more power to them. I call that smart. Unfortunately, locally we can't close the interstates and the airports, so the mega-cities will contaminate us all.

JIm

Matt Holbert

Sitka is beautiful. Well 9 months of the year. You can’t drive to it. Boats or planes are the only way to get there. Yes, I would say it’s a good bug out location.

There are a lot of remote locations here in Alaska.

But, being part of a community is better, in my opinion, than bugging out and being isolated. Reminds me of the story about the rich guy who had a hell of a place up here. He lived in the lower 48 and had this log mansion all decked out. Well he arrived to vacation in his fine house and someone had backed a U-Haul up to it and took everything including the toilet paper. It pays to have good friends who look out for you.

lots of information and recommendations on all aspects of COVID-19. e.g resuing masks:

To clean and reuse masks, place in oven at 70ºC = 160ºF for 30-60min, or expose both sides in a UV
sterilizer. Alcohol is not recommended (mp.weixin.qq.com/s/3QYVWO4kj5qwuSHnhcM9uQ). 3/20
update: Before rule-lovers complain, I’ll point out that UV sterilization and reuse of masks is now being
done by hospitals (www.nytimes.com/2020/03/20/health/coronavirus-masks-reuse.html). Funny how
single-use rules promoted by manufacturers are taken as inviolable truth, until they are revealed as not.

the last slide:

No need to worry about supplies
• 50% of people with virus have no symptoms but will
become immune, just like most symptomatic people
• 95% don’t need to go to the hospital
• The workforce is not threatened
• Farmers and truck drivers and store workers will be
available for work
• You don’t need to buy everything in sight
• This is not the zombie apocalypse

Sending Representatives Homemade Masks

I posted something about this behind the paywall, but there is a citizen's movement afoot about making homemade masks for ourselves and local communities. Maybe we can send some of the masks we are making to our representatives to help them "get it." We can take action on their behalf even if they aren't yet taking action on ours.

Not crazy...

This idea is not crazy.. I won't argue with it in general - I mean all states with lockdowns are in fact leaving critical infrastructure operating.. so people are in fact going to work. I do some days myself.

That being said, there is a long tail of co-morbidities that we just don't have our hands wrapped around yet. What about smokers? What about young pot smokers or vape users? What about obsessive long-distance runners? What about people taking immuno-down modulator anti-IL-6 drugs for things like arthritis and psoriasis? The list goes on... I think we are better off working the angle of immunity vs not, as that is not subject to interpretation.

Thanks, Barbara. Reasonable points

I will run the numbers you suggested. Won't take long.

But I think my main point still stands. I believe one size does not fit all and we would probably be ill-served by a national stay-at-home order such as South Korea or Hong Kong instituted and that it seems both you and Chris are inclined to implement. If I am misrepresenting either of you, I sincerely apologize.

If the President tells everyone to stay home for a month, then there will be no corn, wheat and soybeans planted...you only get once chance per year to do that. We do not have reserves enough to see us through a year with no crops. If he shuts Wyoming down, there will be no coal to keep a lot of power plants running, ditto for Texas, Oklahoma and Louisiana oil.

So, I think it is far wiser to let the governors decide what quarantine measures to take for their own states, rather than impose a national policy.

What's that old saying?

Something like "every cloud has a silver lining"? I must say, my neighborhood is well on its way to a collective loss of girth and poundage. I don't think I've ever seen so many individuals, couples, families, and pets out walking, jogging, and biking, at all times of the day, over the last couple weeks. Only so much doom porn one can take before the nervous energy takes over. Oh, BTW, TP is back in stock. Yeah! I was concerned I'd have to do a scoot on the grass like my dog (although he also likes the kitchen floor or the shag rug in the family room).

Priorities of the Swedish Public Health Authority

Part of the explanation for the bad Swedish response have surfaced. It seems that the government agency for public health doesn't have any kind of priority or focus on preventing or mitigating spread of infectious diseases. Instead it is all about postmodern identity politics.

Goals and demands

The public health authority shall contribute to acheiving the public health policy of creating societal conditions for good and equal health in the entire population and to end the divides in health within a generation.

Equality integration

The public health authority shall declare results from the actions taken regarding equality integration which have been implemented by the agency to contribute to the goals of the equality policies.

Sick leave in Sweden

The public health authority shall declare how the agency, through its work, has contributed to a long-term stable and low level of sick leave in Sweden.

Priorities of the agency

* The health of children and youths in migration.
* Actions to further equal rights regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity or gender expression
* National identities

This politicized, non-scientific, agency is also the residence of the top epidemiologist in the country.

Though, it seems that they have decided that "equality" means sacrificing lives to keep businesses going and money flowing. Which, in the end, will cost countless more lives and eventually things will get so bad that they'll have no choice but to shut everything down anyway. Like in Italy and Spain.

Disappeared Fauci?

He was on WMAL, the DC talk station, this morning, close to 7:30. Gave every indication he and the President are on fine terms; does not think there's any daylight between them.

I'm guessing he's not there when he's not needed. Guy's probably pretty busy, probably working long hours, doesn't need unnecessary pressers. I think we'll see him again when it's appropriate for him to weigh in.

Antibodies

I don't think we have enough knowledge to determine that having the disease confers protection for all time. I've head medical people talk about needing regular boosters, for example. Then there are different strains and we've heard about possible re-infections.

Most crops will be planted under a lockdown...

There is nothing more isolating than sitting in a tractor cab. Under the recent lockdown here in Washington State, the list of types of essential workers -- exempt from the lockdown -- runs to 14 pages long. I'm reasonably sure farmers are on that list.

I've been there once...

I managed the real estate portion of the Alaska public employees and teachers in the mid 90's. Shortly before we left Juneau, my wife and I took the ferry to Sitka. The rain was torrential the entire time. However, it was worse in Juneau. While we were away for 2-3 days, an entire house slid into the sea.

What I most remember about Sitka is a book that I discovered on the end table of our B&B room. Ishmael by Daniel Quinn. It changed my worldview.

More on Hammer and Dance: State by State and Response to Barbara

The data were taken from the sources in the links below. Using them, I calculated confirmed coronavirus cases per million population. Here are the results for selected states.

New York 1300

Washington 325

California 60

Wyoming 51

North Dakota 50

Montana 46

Iowa 39

South Dakota 36

Nebraska 33

Idaho 31

Texas 30

Kansas 29

Oklahoma 28

My point in the original post was that the states that are responsible for the bulk of our energy and food production are in general more sparsely populated…in other words, they are already self-isolated to a large degree. So the appropriate political decisions regarding quarantine for those states might be different from those states that are more densely populated (more people per square mile). In my opinion, this really is a decision that is best left to the states, not to the federal government.

A second thought that came to me while writing this is that we perhaps ought to be setting up ways in which farmers, coal miners and oil/gas workers can be supplied with what they need while having minimal contact with other people. We need to keep them well…just as much as we need to keep our health care workers well. So, masks for doctors/nurses and also for farmers/oil field workers as our first priority? 🙂

Market rout leaves public pension funds nursing a nearly $1 trillion loss for fiscal 2020: Moody’s
“Without a dramatic bounceback of investment markets, 2020 pension investment losses will mark a significant turning point where the downside exposure of some state and local governments’ credit quality to pension risk comes to fruition because of already heightened liabilities and lower capacity to defer costs,” said Aaron.

WH Covid Press Conference, live now 3/24/20

Canada

Hello

As a Canadian living abroad for many years, I have been alarmed for weeks - months - actually now with regards to Canada's (lack of) approach to this...

Late January I warned friends in Canada to be scoffed at. Even when I did the math and demonstrated how the hospital system could not manage all people if there was to be great spread. They all seem to hold allegiance to only what CBC says, and many do not look much farther. They also are hesitant to spend money to prepare. Helping others and altruistic actions of those well off in the big cities does not seem too visible. A blind faith in their governments and health care systems seems unwavered by many perhaps not conceiving as to how such high taxes have not seen their country prepare for a pandemic event even in the simpliest of materials. In Ontario, the population is 14 500 000 with 100% able to access health care of all levels and at all expense almost.

If 1% get infected and if 1% of that 1% needs respirators, Ontario is already behind the 8 ball

Ontario has (before COVID) 1057 respirator ICUs in total with of course some in use before COVID...

1% of 1% of 14.5 million is 1450, thus Ontario at full capacity 2019 stats was 393 respirators in the red.

Oxford University Study suggests IFR 0.1%

Infections may already have peaked in Italy and UK. Study suggests that disease arrived in UK in ealry January, between 36% and 68% of population may already have been exposed and herd immunity close to being achieved. Hospitalizations and deaths will lag but should peak shortly.

Antibody testing of general population is necessary to confirm the result and is expected to begin shortly.

$6 trillion stolen - and it turns out it was just the 'flu

Lates Oxford study suggests main difference between COVID-19 and seasonal 'flu was just speed of spread. So 60% of population got it in 1/3 the time that the regular 'flu spreads. So 18x as many patients in hospitals. But basically just the darn 'flu.

Rebel

Stop trolling.. I dont have anything else to say. You have one argument----- this is nothing dont worry about , what is wrong with you.. lets go back to work.. its over - nothing to see here.

Trust me - as we were already proved right what we were saying months ago.. keep it up.. call me in 6 mos.. I will show you a letter and emial , getting into it with an editor and legal journalist. And how what they said in their publishing. that was reprehensible./. and wrong.. which now is obvious i was correct. 3 mos latter the journalist now has contacted me asking where I got my info and how I knew so much when the authorities were saying other..

So... this is you.. call me in 6 mos. Your are suffering from serious adjustment disorder.

reply to nordicjack

Back in January I thought just as you do today. I had no problem with adjustment whatsoever. Several friends told me to shut up about the corona virus. My kids thought I was crazy for telling them I was getting ready to pull them out of school. However, the evidence is becoming increasingly clear that it is not all that dangerous at all. So - as the new evidence emerges - I am adjusting my opinion again.

I just posted a link to a study released by Oxford University today. Have you heard of Oxford University? Do you think Professor Gupta is trolling? Or just me for posting her study?

Here it is again: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oxmu2rwsnhi9j9c/Draft-COVID-19-Model%20%2813%29.pdf?dl=0

Did you look at the study? Did you understand it? If you disagree with the study, what are your grounds for doing so?

The study may not be correct, but we should know shortly once they do antibody testing.

Meanwhile, our governments have stolen who knows how much money from us? You are looking where the magician wants you to look (look over here - virus), not where you need to be looking (don't look here - fingers in your wallet).

Oh - and here is the FT article talking about the study.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b

Oh and we won't have to wait six months. Looks like they expect to be able to start antibody testing in a few days with results within a week after that. At that point we'll know what percent of Uk has already been exposed and therefore much more accurately how serious the disease really is.

And if it turns out not to be that serious it will have been the greatest robbery of all time. Ever. Anywhere. And done in plain sight.

When was this?

Wintergreen, when was this dressing down by Trump on Fauci? I missed that. Or is this just the usual political pile on by the left. Believe me, nobody runs Fauci. He’s a big boy and has been around Washington for years. The ego weights are well matched. Anyway, per Fauci himself, they get along well enough to stay on mission and that’s good enough for me.

Maybe not

I liked Dr. Campbell initially, but he's shown some very poor judgment in who he associates himself with. He made at least two videos with Paul Cottrell, admitting in the first one that he hadn't bothered to vet him at all, stating he'd never seen his videos. Cottrell has done some very shaky stuff in his YouTube offerings.

Also, and this is just a personal pet peeve, Doc's repeatedly taken judgmental pot shots at people for prepping. Maybe everybody in Britain has a Harry Potter wand that they can use to magically materialize supplies they need to survive. But they haven't distributed any wands in the USA yet. I had to acquire my munchies (and TP) the old fashioned way. So, I'm a bit prejudiced against him now as all the prepper-haters have gotten on my last nerve.

People "young people will die at the same rate as old people"

This stuff that only old people die is garbage. I know the numbers suggest this and what is reported makes it look that way. but we know is young healthy people do die too.

The rates are nowhere near what people think if just to look at what is reported. I cite NY report study. It is very relevant. What they found , is that women got the infection more than men - so lets stop with its a mans disease. Next , they found that half the hospitalized were under 50.. so stop with the serious illness in only for elderly decrepit people. And finally, the study found that "HALF" the people in the ICU were under 65 years of age ( that is young and working age many are healthy and work much longer ) This in a place that accounts for 5% of the world's diagnosed cases.

So , what I infer here is , young people are just as likely to get ill, just as likely to get severely ill, ( and not as likely to die given supportive care ).. This would make sense that a young person give all the supportive care would have a better chance than someone with co-morbidities. But make no mistake, get rid of or overwhelm health care -- those young people all perish..

Is anyone else feeling this way?

I have been watching Chris' videos since the end of January and feel comfortable with my family's preparations, and like many on this site, am as best mentally prepared as I can be. I am not a scientist nor a medical person. I am a co-owner of a family run engineering and manufacturing business (educationally I have a B.S. in Finance and an MBA). I provide this information because after trying to understand the medical aspects, my brain is now focused on the downstream ramifications of the government shutting down the economy, printing money into oblivion and making things even worse by stealing our freedom.

Our government is incompetent, so why would we give them more power and dominance over us, when they have consistently made the problems worse? Giving bailouts to corporations is completely unethical. Printing money does not solve the structural problems; it will only exacerbate them. Stealing from your neighbor doesn't solve anything either (i.e. saying it's ok to only give money to individuals or an identified interest group for political gain, etc.).

Before I receive hate mail about not caring about people, please don't start down that path. I am posting this article for discussion purposes, with a clear eye to the future and what will become of us. Civilized societies are based on mutual cooperation and the essence of contracts (meaning one agrees to do as one commits or promises to another). Specifically, I have been trying to get me head around the breakdown of contractual obligations and how this plays out.

You all understand the cascading impacts, so I am back to my original concern. If all contractual obligations fail - if one's word is no longer good for anything - how do we engage with each other?

P.S. I know that Johnson has now put the UK on lockdown (see article).

rebel regarding antibodies, dont hold your breath

Antibody studies are useful for somethings but to see who has been exposed, its not an exact science. You know you have antibodies to every cold strain in the world? but you can still get the cold because its a different strain. eventually, they beleive the human population will be able to get the cold and not know it.. but it doesnt mean they are not infected with a new strain. or new virus. the antibodies can show positive to similar strains. We have been living with coronviruses for millions of years. We all have antibodies to several. In fact , i believe the way one responds to this infection is based on previous exposures to coronavirus.. hence the ADE effect. I do not believe they will find that a person with antibodies has been exposed , nor that he is immune. This could lead to dangerous and deadly consequences.

reply to nordicjack

How did you decide that this study is garbage? Could you explain exactly what you feel is wrong with it? Your current criticism is sweeping but lacks somewhat in detail.

In any case you may be correct. We should know one way or the other within a couple of weeks.

Interestingly I am English although I have lived in US for most of my life. My immediate family still lives in UK though, and I stay in touch with a couple of old friends. About 20% of the people in that immediate circle (including my sister and niece) are currently suffering, or have recently suffrered, from a nasty bug featuring persistent cough and high temperature lasting about ten days. Actually one of the sufferers (a friend's mum) doesn't have a cough but has diarrhea and vomiting. It is of course possible that they all have some other disease or diseases, and that certainly isn't proof of anything. It's interesting though.

I promise I'm not trolling though. I don't think it's unreasonable to point out a new study from a prestigious university.

Oops

Aw, crap...I forgot to select the sarcasm font again.

Aside from that, we've watched this Real Housewives of DC drama for over three years. It will be interesting to see how long Fauci lasts if he continues to disagree with the boss. It certainly hasn't worked out for an interminably long list of other people--there are almost as many of them as there are Co19 cases.

nordicjack and RebelYell...

I want to ring the bell on your ongoing pissing match... chill out please. You are hijacking threads and generally being, well, annoying. You are both relatively new, quickly making your mark and losing credibility by your ad nauseum back and forth mud slinging.

And some of your insults to the comments made by others are, in my opinion, inappropriate. If you want respect for your comments at PP you need to do a better job of earning it. You can start by considering quality over quantity. I am not the comment police or censor, but just offering up a thought. I am confident I am not alone in my thinking...

Contractual Obligations

I agree with your points about abandoning the obligations, especially with the now 6T "Coronovirus Rescue Package".

Your statement: "Our government is incompetent, so why would we give them more power and dominance over us, when they have consistently made the problems worse?"

It seems that our general population is apathetic and not aware of (ignorance is bliss?) what the government is doing and more importantly not interested becoming active enough members to demand change.

Russia, Russia, Russia

Tina Fey's comedy skit aside (I'll have to watch it again*) you could see Russia from Sitka prior to October 18, 1867:

Sitka was the site of the transfer ceremony for the Alaska purchase on October 18, 1867. Russia was going through economic and political turmoil after it lost the Crimean War to Britain, France, and the Ottoman Empire in 1856 and decided it wanted to sell Alaska before it was taken over by Britain. Russia offered to sell it to the United States. Secretary of State William Seward had wanted to purchase Alaska for quite some time as he saw it as an integral part of Manifest Destiny and America's reach to the Pacific Ocean.[11] While the agreement to purchase Alaska was made in April 1867, the actual purchase and transfer of control took place on October 18, 1867. The cost to purchase Alaska was $7.2 million, 2 cents per acre.

Worldometer site Closed Cases Death rate continues to climb

Chris' Newest Video Points Out The Problems With The Oxford Study

Rebelyell, Chris' latest video puts a spike in that study as being very easily debunked. Perhaps you would like to watch it and retract your support of it?

I'm going to agree with Jan, the group of hair splitters here and your arguments on whether CFR is 1 or 2 or more, with long posts to support your point of view are getting to the point I scroll right past them without a look.

30% Saline

I am a nurse in the ER and am planning on saving my N95s and bringing them home to “disinfect” and sit for 9 days in case I have to start reusing them.

I emailed Edens Garden (the essential oil company I use) and they had a certified aromatherapist email me back and sent me a recipe. It comes with the disclaimer that they don’t know how it will affect the integrity of the mask and there haven’t been any studies on essential oils and this coronavirus. I wanted something that would be safe to potentially breathe in. I figured this would be better than wearing a bandanna like the CDC is recommending!

dtrammel said:

Where did you find the information on the 30% saline? I am a nurse in the ER and am planning on saving my N95s and bringing them home to “disinfect” and sit for 9 days in case I have to start reusing them.

ER.RN, there was a study that found that soaking in a saline solution tended to increase the efficiency in a mask to filter virus particles. One of the ways a mask does this is a "electrostatic" mechanism as well as a drying mechanism. Let me hunt down the specific study.

The gold standard is heat. Cooking a used mask in 170F for 30 minutes has been found to kill SARS (we are going with Covid is the same as SARS for now).

UV light exposure for 30 minutes per side is also good.

Chemical disinfection with alcohol or hydrogen peroxide for 5 minutes, followed by a water rinse and air dry, work but seem to degrade your mask filtration some to an unknown amount, though one PPE manufacturer ran their filters through 5 minutes of alcohol soak 4 times a day for 18 months with little degrading.

We have no scientific studies at present on essential oils and their efficiency.

Bottom line is you can reuse masks quite more than the manufacturer says. And surgical masks and hand made ones of cotton filter much more than the CDC or manufacturers want you to know.

China : Closed cell phone accounts

There's a you tube video claiming in the last three months, over 21 million cell phone accounts have been closed in China. Now, from what I see, the only way you take away someone's phone, you'd have to pry it from their cold, dead hands. Just sayin'.

Master Question List for COVID-19 (caused by SARS-CoV-2)

DHS has released an interesting document listing what they know about the virus and the questions that they still need to answer. Regarding the question of viral load and severity of the disease, they don't have answers for humans, but there have been studies using animal models with MERS. These appear to support Chris's hypothesis that a higher viral load increases the severity of the infection. From the document:

Genetically modified mice exposed intranasally to doses of MERS virus between 100 and 500,000 PFU show signs of infection. Infection with higher doses result in severe syndromes.7, 41, 81, 150

The referenced papers are listed at the end of the document, which is found here: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_03_18_mql_covid-19-sars-cov-2_-_cleared_for_public_release_0.pdf

There's lots of other interesting information in the document as well.

Packed churches at Easter

Was I having a sudden narcoleptic nightmare, or did I just read that Trump wants packed churches at Easter? Has he been tested? I haven't noticed "wild hallucinogenic ravings" on the list of COVID-19 symptoms, but I'm beginning to doubt my own literacy. Let's hope that Americans have more sense than to listen to The Special One's oratory.

Immune boosting mushroom idea of the day is.... Shiitake

Want to double your Natural Killer T cells? These cells express a specific antigen receptor but also resemble innate immune cells through their rapid activation in response to multiple antigens as well as cytokines?

Conclusions: Regular L. edodes consumption resulted in improved immunity, as seen by improved cell proliferation and activation and increased sIgA production. The changes observed in cytokine and serum CRP levels suggest that these improvements occurred under conditions that were less inflammatory than those that existed before consumption.

You are spreading fake news Mr UK...

Trump said nothing of the sort. He said that he would like to see us back to work by Easter.. he would like that to be our hopeful timeline. He is projecting hope, but was careful to say it would be predicated on medical reality. You can listen on youtube if you would like.

You may not know it but Trump is talking code to Patriots. There is still the matter of the seditious coop attempted against him and his administration using the powers of the US (and other nations) intelligence agency assets. While the virus gets most of the attention now.. don't think that this evil mess will be forgotten. The invisible enemy will get light shone on it soon enough.

recovering from virus / how long before i'm not infectious?

i've been getting over some illness for the last 10 days or so, and while i haven't been tested, i believe it to be the coronavirus, due to the symptoms - started off as a lingering sore throat and then spread to the lungs.

it was a pretty mild experience overall, which i believe is due to taking vitamins, zinc, selenium, and chaga on a daily basis. or maybe i just got lucky with which variant i encountered.

but now that i'm 90% back to normal and ready to start getting back to daily life, how do i make sure i don't infect others?

the virus is spread through aerosolized particles, right? which means coughing and sneezing, which i haven't been doing anyhow.

Self sufficiency can shift the power struggle

Brendan, after reading your insight (and agreeing significantly with, let’s face it, all of it) it made me truly wonder how this situation can be rectified, if at all. The prominent thing that keeps coming to the forefront of my mind for the majority of these issues are re establishing self sufficiency for each individual in our society.
I have had many conversations with people over the years about the growing concern that I had to see year after year the growing dependence on our society on an ever growing global scale for basic needs and governments (as well as engorged private enterprises) increased dependence on outsourcing to the cheapest workforce to get something made or done at a fraction of a cost to make as much money as possible, instead of locally investing in jobs, resources and keeping things locally.
We, as a global society, predominantly have become like locusts, consuming products at a wasteful, disposable rate that has fed the bank accounts of these CEO’s, governments alike. We are responsible as a society for where we are at and in saying this we have to rethink, readjust, reprioritise our habits, ways that we think and spend our money. The positive thing (if you can see it amongst all of this situation) is this, corona virus is forcing everyone to rethink what is vital in their lives, what truly matters and what is absolutely essential and it is also waking people up to the fact that they have to learn how to get this done on their own because it is going to become a situation of every man for themselves. Self sufficiency to grow your own food, reconnect with your loved ones (immediate family, closest friends), learn new skills and adapt at a faster pace are some of the positives that this situation can give us. Also this has grossly exposed the blatant inadequacies, corruption and problems of the corporate and governments, the rats have no where to hide now.
We have a unique opportunity for our society to balance the scale and the best way to do this is by not investing in to the corporate fat rats that have now realised that they are actually at our mercy BECAUSE the reality is this, if we can’t work to get an income, we can’t funnel money in to their corporations for them to get richer and they are losing a ridiculous amount of money from markets crashing everyday.

So don’t be too upset or bitter, their day is coming much, much quicker than everyone thinks. The little guys like us we are smart and strong and we will be ok and get through all of this.
Keep healthy and safe, lots of best wishes to you and your family.

Zinc ionophores

Do not exceed about 30 mg of Zinc/day. A mixture of zinc to copper at a 15:1 ratio ( 2 mg Copper) may be best.

The Quercetin Phytosomes source the Doctor mentions is out of stock. Quercetin bio-availability is somewhat improved in a high fiber diet. Here is my POV on zinc ionophores:

Approaches to moderate onset COVID-19 disease using Chloroquine as an off-the-shelf hammer approach to treatment have toxicity issues. The use of the alternative Hydroxychloroquine, or its sulfate salt, will reduce these toxicological effect but one must still be careful with the dose in the case of diabetic patients with the SARS-CoV-2 infections.
https://www.healthline.com/health/hydroxychloroquine-oral-tablet#side-effects

A slower release of this drug along with a higher uptake across epithelial cell walls both in the throat and lungs could be obtained by using niosomes that allow the encapsulation Hydroxychloroquine into labile organic nanospheres.
Preparation of niosomes involves encapsulation of Hydroxychloroquine in a non-ionic surfactant-based vesicle comprised of cholesterol and a non-ionic surfactant.
The recent development of these niosomes have advantages over earlier designed liposomes due to a longer shelf life and the ability to encapsulate hydrophilic and hydrophobic drugs. Niosomes containing hydroxychloroquine have been shown to be effective in treatment of the oral lichen planus immune disorder.
https://reference.medscape.com/medline/abstract/24184035

As an alternative to Hydroxychloroquine, Quercetin and other similar non-toxic bioflavanoids appear to serve the same function as Hydroxychloroquinine and Chloroquinine as Zinc Ionophores for inhibiting virus replicase as described in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AToF8O5T86s.

Quercetin bioavailability via this mechanism is generally less than Hydroxychloroquinine, however, its encapsulation in liposomes has been shown to increase its effectiveness.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/jf5014633

Quercetin may be even more effective if incorporated in phytosomes where it is chemically bonded to phospholipids. The preparation of liposomes and phytosomes and some of their applications are described here:

To people that make personal attacks on fellow members (nordicjack)

Nordicjack

You make personal comments to people and seem to be in the mental position that you are correct all the time and belittle people.

You Called me a narcissistic psychopath that needs to see a psychologist (which I do and I can assure you I am not... according to my psychologist. But maybe you will argue this as you seem superior to everyone.... is that narcissistic in itself? Everyone should have a psychologist just like we have a mechanic for our cars)

This comment was based around me saying the way to heard immunity is to create it amongst the young first that don’t create many complications on the health system. So a lockdown that staggers the age groups upwards as heard immunity is solved (including virologists and statisticians to manage the age cut off points).

Also I am worried that if the economy and our supply chain stop. Then mad max is a possible scenario. And that’s my fear. I don’t have any guns. And I actually don’t want to live in a world where guns are necessary.... so it’s by choice that I don’t have guns. Peace not war bro.

I also made some criticism of politicians. I actually assume now (and as you and I know ass-u-me”ing makes an ass out of u and me) and that you are actually a trump supporter and as such personally responsible for the president in charge “the commander and chief of the country”. Hopefully I am wrong and you aren’t a supporter (but I will picture trump when I see your name on any posts here ... p.s. it’s not a good look).

As a side note.

I have also paid for my premium membership. But I don’t have access and it says I am not enrolled. I have messaged Chris. And wonderfully he responded to me to contact support. I did. But still no access.

So it seems like I am on the outer.

I will continue to watch Chris and Adam and their wonderful work. But it seems like it pays not to contribute ... without fear of rebuke from people like Nordicjack and glitches in the matrix which means I have paid my $au43 dollars for premium access. But I don’t have any.

UV light (black light) as scientifically tested disinfectant

Hi guys

Please read attached article, maybe also show your hospital and fellow medical staff. You guys are absolutely in the firing line of this and I hope this can keep you guys safe. I have a black (UVtorch in my powder room for my kids to double check their hands when washing up (they think it’s an awesome science experiment) they now know that if they see anything glowing on themselves that they need to wash their hands again.
maybe set up a dark room in your house, ie bathroom, basement or attic and change normal globe for us one and hang your masks and medical gear in their to sterilisation.

Brendon

I really shouldnt even addressed your post. I was just really in shock that you suggest that we just throw caution to the wind and let the economy roll , and just blow this thing off. Not, that its not a scenario that should be evaluated. Several on this board , along with me, have wondered whether more people could die from economic fall-out than from the illness. This is something to discuss.. But to come-out and say hey , these people stopping the economy for this - is wrong, we need to let everyone get sick and keep the economy going, whilst at the same time stating that the govt officials are wrong for messing with the economy.. my gosh trump , how could you? and anyone that supports your decision should be hanged. What is really ironic , is trump wanted to do what you want to do, maybe worse than you wanted to do , for all the more wrong reasons you wanted. The problem is he had to go with something that was more rational, when you carefully evaluated the "OUTCOME" of what you suggest. you have made sound good.. just the flu -- no one really gets too hurt - let it burn through the poplulation , most will recover.. especially the most important people.

All without having the facts, without knowing what this disease really does, not knowing if you ever recover or keep this forever like herpes.. whether you have longterm disability or permanent organ damage. Its just way too early to know.. studies that have been done dont look good.. So, you want to let it burn through the population , like its nothing more than the flu. If it were nothing more , id agree. But why do you think its the flu? what if its not? people are sick longer with this than the flu.. more hospitaliztions.. it will overwhelm the system we see this in italy and NY.. but you think, if we do nothing,, this just goes away? We can do this, open everything up again, go back to work and life. Let the bodies pile up, shut the doors at the hospital to all with the disease.. and just put those souls in a ditch and call it a casualty of war. Its an option.. but , regardless of who dies, young or old. I assure you with this option , the numbers are going to be alarming by the time its finished.. and it will be something way worse than anything ever imagined in the holocaust , civil war, black plague, crusades, etc. It would leave a scar on humanity as a tragedy of epic proportions.. we can do that.. ! but , only if you know and understand what it means.

the UV lights - i am bit confused

Kylie, You speak about UV disinfection but also a black light for seeing organic residues. The black light does not disinfect , its useful for see the crud. a UV-C disinfection light would damage your skin if you were to expose it. But , I am all for using both types of lights , one to see how much slop was not cleaned and the other to sterilize.

to kill the economy or not

Elsewhere I have seen commentary on the risks of the current US course of inadvertently selectively breading more aggressive strains and leaving the lowest risk demographics open to a second nasty wave.

Article claimed this is what has happened in the past.

At present huge decisions are been made on sketchy information, but the data is improving.

Sweden, yet again...

It just keeps coming.

Yesterday I got information that the protocol for medical (and support) personnel who work with Covid-19 patients in our province should work without facemask except in certain high-risk cases where there is a risk of spraying. Protection equipment should be donned and taken off in the room with the patient. If I remember well (have no copy of the protocol here) an MD must give permission for staff to use a facemask... If I'm not mistaken they even claim that it is safe to work without a mask around patients with Covid-19 (not suspected cases... that is confirmed cases...). I still have to get my hands on a physical copy of the protocol so I can confirm all this and analyse.

Against principles that should be used in this case (e.g. precautionary principle)

And against about any ethical (society) and moral principle (of 'experts' and 'managers') that I can think of

I can only see 4 possible reasons for this:

They don't know the facts, and are not willing or able to read up on them -> Incompetency, these people should not be in that position
They work based on models that don't reflect reality. But if reality doesn't coincide with your models, it's not reality that is at fault (don't know who said that first, but great quote), you adapt, fast... -> Incompetency; these people should not be in that position
They are trying to hide the fact that they cannot get these materials, that they are out of their depth and that they have not prepared for anything beforehand. Then you take responsibility, fess up, drop the rules that say that you cannot use protection materials used for construction, set up a local facemask production line with the best materials and design you can get your hands on, and go sixth gear. Go this way and in no time you have the support of a large part of the population -> Incompetency, lack of integrity and responsibility, lack of vision, lack of moral fibre; these people should not be in that position
They think it's going to be too expensive -> I won't even go there...

Trust is very hard to build, and very easy to lose...

I sent an open letter to municipal coordinators and local politicians with a scenario and recommendations (based on my experience in emergency response and preparedness in Doctors Without Borders) on what they should have in place to make the best of it. A standard thank you, we take it seriously, we know what we are doing in reply. But inside information indicates that they're flailing and don't understand what they are potentially dealing with...

I'm just gobsmacked for the moment, medical staff who is going to be pushed to the frontline of this deserves so much better than to be exposed to potential severe suffering and death with obvious lies and inadequate equipment.

The Chernobyl liquidators come to mind, but I find this almost worse, because in this case there was time, there were the resources, there was just no vision, competency, courage, commitment, and right prioritisation.

Carbon-based bipeds have had their moments of glory, this is not one of them...

Kylie C said:

Thanks for your response. Black light is fantastic to have in hand washing area to help everyone check whether they have actually washed their hands, brushed their teeth, cleaned up etc properly. Great for seeing if you have done the job properly or not. I have worked in public and private hospitals and aged care settings and some of these places have been smart and had these lighting systems in place so staff can make sure their hygiene practices are up to scratch as many immune compromised people are directly effected if you are not responsible for adequate personal hygiene. I personally think it’s a fantastic practice and one that I have found to positively work. I had a younger brother with compromised immune system from radiotherapy and chemotherapy treatment for pineal blastoma brain tumour. He was given several months to live and he managed to get an extra 12 years because we practiced extensive hygiene protocols at home.

in regards to UV and UV-C lighting I have attached an article relevant to the scientific support and uses that China have applied in support of this to disinfection. I hope that this can assist people in making an informed decision or to encourage people to look further in to researching the validity of it. If experts have already tested this process and endorsed the method in a variety of environments then it is an assumption that there is some validity to the process and desired outcome.

UV light on masks

so with all the clear directives in the western world it’s don’t need to use masks

but we at least think.

I have disposable masks. There are a few studies on uv sterilisation. But maybe we aren’t thinking about all things. This study says if sterilisation damages the structural integrity of a mask. So what does washing or steam do ?

UV sterilization is a viable method to disinfect N95 masks

Brandon.....Here is the conclusion from the study you just cited:

”The capacity to disinfect and reuse disposable N95 respirators may be needed during a pandemic of an infectious disease that spreads by airborne particles. Ultraviolet germicidal irradiation is one possible method for accomplishing this. In our experiments, UVGI had a small effect on filtration performance and essentially no effect on flow resistance at doses up to 950 J/cm2, while the structural integrity of the respirators showed a noticeable decrease at lower doses. The strength of the respirator straps was less affected by UVGI than the strength of the body material. Our results suggest that UVGI could be used to disinfect respirators, although the maximum number of disinfection cycles will be limited by the respirator model and the UVGI dose.”

I am re-using.

I wore my first mask in public in an Australian domestic flight on the 29th jan. I felt like I was over reacting and then didnt wear one for another couple of weeks. In the 15 times I have donned my n95 mask on, I have broken the elastic band twice. So always carry a spare. I will probably reuse 10 times then bin.( Time rotation in sun)

Also did you know that a lot of n95 masks have a flapper valve. This allows aerosol transmission from the person breathing out. So that means it’s not a two way filter. And a lot of the masks worn by people have the valve to make it easier to expire ... but not the same two way protection ....

shimz said:

This is how PPE should be used in Sweden, following WHO guidelines (automatic translation):

Eye protection and face shields

Protective goggles or visor are used together with mouth protection or respiratory protection to protect the eyes - mouth and nasal mucosa. Visor protects the entire face from splashing

Mouth and respiratory protection

The spread of the covid-19 can be through contact, drip and aerosol infection.

A liquid-repellent mouth guard in combination with a visor or goggles constitutes an adequate barrier protection for healthcare professionals in both sampling and care situations, with the exception of aerosol creating procedures. Respiratory protection FFP2 or FFP3 is used for working operations where local risk assessment indicates that this is necessary. More information about respiratory protection can be found on the Work Environment Agency's website.

Protective coat

Coats have a long sleeve and are liquid repellent. The protective coat also needs to cover the working clothes well and be able to be taken off safely. It is important to use what is well practiced in order to reduce the risk of infection.

Protective apron

Alternative to protective coat is long-sleeved plastic apron. It is important that the apron covers the working clothes well as can be safely taken off. If you are normally trained on and use a long-sleeved plastic apron, you can use it. The same basic requirements as for the protective coat then apply.

Protective gloves

Protective gloves should be used in close-to-patient contact with cases of covid-19, see §14 of AFS 2018:4. Replacement of protective gloves is done between each care or care component and, if necessary, based on local risk assessment, in line with local procedures.

The lack of enough PPE resources has been a known issue since this whole thing started - and even before that. We are getting daily updates in Swedish media. No one is trying to hide it. The PPE problem has been mentioned pretty much daily for weeks now. But what to do about it?

Just-in-time works as long as not the whole world wants the same thing at the same time, as long as production is running, as long as borders are open. Then it is just-isn't-there. And it's not about the money. Money can't buy what's not there. Overall planning seems to be fine. But planning for pandemic scale PPE needs seems to have been pretty much non-existent.

And when there is not enough PPE, what do you do? Regions have the possibility to make local decisions, but doctors and nurses are scared:

Just Get A UV-C light To Disinfect...

If you want to disinfect masks..or anything else...use a UV-C light. Spend about $150 bucks, if you do not want to make one yourself, and get a 36 Watt system.

This will create 12 Watts of UV-C output. Then, disinfect everything you want. Masks, clothes,rugs,toys,shoes,tools,car interiors,beds,rooms,closets,hats, anything. You could even install it in your HVAC system to clean the air blowing about the house, killing every organic pest and pathogen.

Your wife will stop sneezing from the pollen and mold spores, and all bacteria and virus pathogens die.

We use HV-C to sterilize our hands, too. Just a few seconds and done.

Just do not look at the light, or wear UV glasses, to protect your vision. Also, do not expose your skin too long...as it will give you a wonderful "Sun" burn.

Stop all the fuss..and just get..or make..a UV-C system. Easy to do, too...from easy to buy components. All you need is a ballast, a base, and a bulb...plus a power cord. Done. This is about $60 bucks of stuff off the web.

I just bought another three 36 Watt HV-C bulbs from Philips on eBay. They arrive later today.

So, if you want to disinfect, with the least damage, ANY ITEM, get a light. Why set a mask in the SUN for hours, to do the exact same thing this light can do in seconds?

A bulb will last about 10,000 hours too. No chemicals. No hours of treatment required.

It is what every hospital uses, every restaurant kitchen uses, and what many HVAC makers provide as standard equipment on their new systems.

I Wonder WHY the MILITARY is NOT providing GAS MASKS to Hospitals.

You want complete protection from tiny pathogens? You want to be able to re-use equipment, over and over? You want to be able to change out used filters and replace them with new..in the same full-face, protective, mask?

USE A MILITARY ISSUE GAS MASK.

We have thousands and thousands of such masks & the extra filters for them in storage all over the place. The filtration capability of these masks can be altered by the type of filter one installs in them. If our standard "Tear Gas" filter will also protect the wearer BETTER than a N95 will...there is absolutely NO REASON not to issue them to critical medical personnel, such as ICU Doctors and Nurses.

AND, when this crisis is over...the issued masks can be returned, cleaned, new filters installed..and put BACK in storage. I know...as I was in Military Decontamination and Shelter management.

Are we THIS stupid not to have immediately thought of doing this? EVERY branch as its own supply. Even an old M17A1 us better than a soggy paper mask!

Hey Nordic.

The virologists/statisticians pick an age. And everyone over it goes into lockdown (somewhere between 40-60?)

Let it rage amongst the younger exposed age group. Once the hospitals settle … we bring out the the next age group in a controlled release ….

So we don’t flood the health system. So we keep the economy going.”

I didn’t mean rage uncontrollably. I meant maximum controllable. That’s why I said controlled in the following sentence.

Did you read it ? Or just become a self objectifying superior person seeking to belittle any that say anything you don’t agree with ? There are words for this that I choose not to use. ... I am sure you know them and will tell me what you think. (Google narcissist?)

Anyhow. Nordic. I watched this and I liked it. A lot of trump foolery in here. You should watch it !

Ision

Seems like a good idea to me.

Now imagine someone presenting this idea at a meeting with the Human Recourses Director, the Hospital Administrator and maybe even the President of the hospital in attendance. I suspect the “for profit” hospital would find a laundry list of reasons why gas masks would not work.

You want complete protection from tiny pathogens?

No, I think hospitals want profit.

Are we THIS stupid not to have immediately thought of doing this?

Absolutely, see reply above regarding profit. Besides, was it the CDC or the WHO that said the lay public didn’t need to wear masks or gloves. So really how bad could it be? (their thoughts). At least until the oh shit reality moment.

I wanted a UVC light quick.

I thought China’s whole supply system had shut (9 feb) down and I wanted a uvc light from Australia. So I bought an aquarium one as they are popular. The funny thing was ... when it arrived ... the waterproof tube had broken (but the lamp still worked ). 36w uvc for $12 and domestic

I ended up getting the lamp that worked perfectly for air sterilisation for half price ( he didn’t want to refund the entire price and I still had what I wanted and half price seemed fair) ?

Zinc ionophores - make your own liposomal quercetin?

Thanks for posting again on this topic Krollchem. I ended up ordering phtysomal quercetin from Thorne, and while mine is on it's way as of yesterday, the website is now listing, "out of stock". Man, word gets around fast.

I will say this; In the case of Vitamin C, there are lots of videos on youtube that show how you can create your own .. and I don't see why one could not create their own version using std. quercetin. At the end of the day, you are just coating small particles of the supplement with a fat. This magnifies absorption, and ultimately bioavailability.

This small UV unit works well for sterilizing masks (I presume)

About a month ago I bought this UV sterilizing unit through Amazon for $129. The price has gone up about $30...not too bad. It is easy to use for sterilizing masks, phones, gloves and so on. You may want to consider it. It was still apparently in stock as of this morning.

Lay off the political statements please

Hey Locksmith UK,

Lay off on the political attacks on this site. We don't do politics here. We try to help each other and our communities with useful advice and support. Either help with the problem at hand, or get the heck out of the way.

Jim H, that is exactly what I've been thinking.

I still have my ultrasonic jewelry cleaner and was just thinking about ordering some bulk lecithin and giving it a go. Haven't found any instructions anywhere specific to quercetin, but figured I'd follow the Vitamin C instructions.

By the way, thanks for suggesting quercetin early on. I have a supply on hand.

creating lipsomal quercetin

Abstract

Quercetin is a strong antioxidant flavonoid with several bioactive properties such as anti-inflammatory and anticarcinogenic activities, becoming an interesting compound to be incorporated into pharmaceutical, cosmetic or food products. However, these applications are limited by the low bioavailability of this flavonoid. Quercetin is poorly soluble in aqueous media, such as gastrointestinal fluids, being also degraded by gut flora. Thus, it is necessary the development of quercetin's formulations capable of improving its water solubility resulting in increased bioavailability and thus higher biological activity of this compound.

The aim of the present work was the formulation of quercetin using three distinct natural origin surfactants, namely OSA-starch, Lecithin and β-glucan, by precipitation from a pressurized ethyl acetate-in-water emulsion. Formulations of quercetin with encapsulation efficiencies up to near 76% and a micellar particle size in the range of nanometers were obtained using lecithin. An improved antioxidant activity (3-fold higher per unit mass of quercetin) was also observed in these formulations, demonstrating that lecithin is a good emulsifier for the encapsulation of quercetin. Furthermore, the addition of glycerol as co-solvent increased the colloidal stability of the suspension and the encapsulation efficiency of the flavonoid.

Apparently, "phytosome" is a patented process, which explains not calling it a liposome;

Contractual Obligations

Hello Captain Queeg,

I understand your observation. Many people in the US will scream for the "government" to do something. But that still doesn't address the question I was posing . It may be that there is so much between now and getting to "how do we work together" that it's too hard to fathom. I think we still need to start discussing it. People on this site understand the earthquake that is happening and the moral hazard that is occurring with the "just print money" approach.

Ibuprophen Interaction by Dr Seheult

Dear Chris,

You have been so helpful to me in understanding, preparing and perspective with the COVID 19 updates. My family and I are weathering this storm a thousand times more gracefully than we would have without your information and assistance. For that I am sincerely grateful.

I have included a link to Dr Seheult's medical review of the issue with Ibuprophen. You mentioned that you had some trouble finding information regarding the concerns and his youtube discussion is very helpful. You can find it at: https://youtu.be/dT6mHi_8V5E.

Thanks again for your courage and insight in these times. I can't tell you how much your help has been appreciated. --Robin Thompson

MedCram video series - stellar

I heartily endorse the MedCram corona virus video series... I like the way Dr. S tip toes around the line between hopeful, data-based speculation and the ever limiting and slow moving allopathic standard of care BS. His teaching style is wonderful - if folks don't know it that is actually the underlying business model for MedCram.com... they make professional training videos for the healthcare industry.

Jim H, fake news, and churches

Jim H -:

"Trump said nothing of the sort. He said that he would like to see us back to work by Easter.. he would like that to be our hopeful timeline. He is projecting hope, but was careful to say it would be predicated on medical reality. You can listen on youtube if you would like"

Effects of UV light on plastics/polymers

Without detailed studies to guide us, I think we will have to make intelligent guesses with regard to how long we can sterilize masks by UV without degrading the performance of the mask. UV light (and ozone) degrade nearly all plastics/polymers, eventually causing them to become stiff and brittle.

So for me, when the stretchy material around the sides of the mask becomes stiff so that it no longer conforms well to my face, I will be throwing it out. So far, I am not at that point. If the elastic bands go first, then I will discard it even earlier. We have to keep the mask comfortably sealed around our face, mouth and nose. Off with that facial hair, guys. 🙂

Jim H, DrBruceDale, & Locksmithuk

drbucedale - nope

@drbbrucedale

I've been respecting this site's norms for almost a decade, and I continue to do so.

You are welcome to point to exactly where I discussed politics in my original post. I pointed out the crazy utterances of an individual who happens to be a prominent politician. Big difference. I think you're being more than a little presumptuous.

However, if I were discussing politics then in this case it would be completely relevant. Politics and public health policies are inextricably linked, as are politics and the economic policy, politics and environmental policy, politics and monetary policy. Are you suggesting that these links don't exist?

I'm uninterested in anyone's political affiliations, but I am most definitely interested in politics when those who irresponsibly execute public policies have an impact on my health and well-being, and those of my loved ones. In this case perhaps you should be too. Easter indeed!

As a last resort, if you really can't cope with criticism of a public figure's* dangerous policies then you have the option to stop seeing the content of my posts on this site if you wish.

Brendon , regarding picking an age

That would sound rational , if it actually worked as you are thinking it works. They have made such a big over-inflated deal about how this only affects old people, that young people think, they dont catch it mind get sick.

However, as I keep saying , that is not true. Young people get infected just as easily and get as sick just as easily. But obviously dont die just as easily, that would make a lot of sense.. So what you are saying let all the young people get sick .. ( most will be mild ) or asymptomatic . Not really. Again, just because the deaths do not show it, doesnt mean young dont need hospitalization and vents and antibiotics , IVs , antivirals etc. Again , i turn you to the NY study. 5% of worlds infections.. It clearly stated that half the people hospitalized where under 50 years of age/ additionally, half the people in the ICU were less than 65 years of age. There is no way , to say that these people do not need tons of health care.. They are just more likely than someone old to pull through.. or better yet someone with co-morbidity. which makes sense.. the older you get, the more likely you are to have other crap.

Regarding the controlled segment exposure. Someone in another country suggested this. Its actually a good idea, if you could anticipate that once you actually get over the disease, you are have immunity. But it may not be the case with this disease. We need to figure that out.. And then if you do get some part immunity, then we could do a controlled release, allowing the most critical people in the economy to go first.. delivery, food service and production. healthcare workers, police, military, and so on. And everyone else is full lockdown till their turn.. This would give you a finite amount of sick "hopefully" if obeying lockdown. And it would give you a finite time-line of what and when will be closed and open.

Disinfecting Masks

Hi DTrammel,

Thank you for the link and info. I’ll do that when I get home from my shift. Any thoughts on what I can do with the 1 N95 I’m given for a 12 hour shift? Obviously it would be best to leave it on but realistically that’s not possible. I was thinking this spray would be better than nothing? And I don’t want to breathe in bleach or Lysol like some people have suggested. That just isn’t safe and we see people in the ER for exposure to bleach or other cleaning fumes.