Posted - 2012.04.29 16:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was wondering if anyone knew why we are locked down to a starting orbit position of a max 160 KM ?It appears if you are at warp range you can't orbit it.Why is that ?

Posted - 2012.04.29 19:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
Exactly. My guess is Eve's orbit range may not have been designed at all, per-s+, , but is merely an arbitrary limit CCP has imposed that is reflective of the mechanics, distances, speeds, and scales Eve uses. It probably naturally arose as upper bounds were set on ship gun and missile ranges. There are several illustrative examples we can use to highlight this point via thought experiments:

Suppose maximum ship speed was in the hundreds of km/sec range. Maximum orbit range would necessarily have to be larger to achieve the desired effect orbiting strategically gives the player.

Suppose guns were designed with extreme sniping styles in play (say 1000km) but with current average ship speeds in mind. Orbiting mechanics could be implemented at those ranges, but the advantages incurred by such maneouvres are greatly dimished due to the affects of parallax.

In addition, orbit mechanics between two moving objects in 3-dimensional space involves complicated vector calculus (Frenet-Serret forumlas come to mind) making simplifying orbit mechanics as much as possible ideal in a game where mass, acceleration, resistances, drones, and other objects must also be calculated by the server simultaneously. Setting an upper bound keeps things from being needlessly complicated (and silly). This is not to say that CCP doesn't use simplifying models to reduce workload on programmers (indeed, this is the hallmark of a good designer - see ship trail development) but Eve is probably compuationally intense as MMOs go (using SI units of mass and physical equations as well as all movement directions). Why bother including the ability to orbit planets? It behooves CCP to omit mechanics only few would enjoy using that have dubious strategic value not already served by current mechanics (safe spots, etc).

"just because I want to" won't work - every gameplay mechanic requires programming work. You have to consider CCP not thinking it's worth the ramifications of changing auto-abilities. it could have unforseen effects that they do not want to deal with if they don't have to.

Occam's razor!

I am afraid that answer doesn't cut it.I have lost count how many times CCP has openly admitted a mechanic they put into the game was used for something totally different then what it was intended for.

I haven't tried lately, but you used to be able to righ-click the orbit button on the overview and set up to 1000km orbit

/c

Just tested this and it's still correct... the limit is 1000km not 160 km.

Dunno where OP is getting his info.

S

EDIT ... and the orbit button goes grey at 150km, not 160km."The next time airport security tells you to put your hands over your head and hold that vulnerable position for seven seconds, ask yourself: Is this the posture of a free man?"

Posted - 2012.04.29 22:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
The mechanic is somewhat baffling. If you are 90KM from an object you can start orbiting it at 200KM but if you are 200KM from it you cannot start orbiting it.

Orbiting mechanics could be implemented at those ranges, but the advantages incurred by such maneouvres are greatly dimished due to the affects of parallax....Source: no life, grad school (haha)

I'm sorry, I understand you try to smart-post, but you need to recheck definition of "parallax".

Everyone should try to smart-post!-aThank you for ignoring literally every other point I made, though.(also, inb4 tl;dr)However, I see how you could misintepret that as me thinking parallax is some sort of physical process or something (and using 'affect' accidentally probably didn't help). I merely meant that the primary reason people orbit -a- to dictate range and exploit gun tracking, amongst others - becomes less important at extreme ranges. Your apparent motion becomes so small from the other ship's perspective that orbiting doesn't give you a notable advantage if you want to make it harder for them to track you. That is why railgun snipers at extreme ranges don't see their dps drop in a notable amount if they move while firing - their guns have no trouble tracking something that seems like it's barely moving.I wouldn't have brought up parallax if we were talking about orbiting a pos tower for ***** and giggles, but I suppose I can use motion and tracking if you prefer that or think I mean it in an astronomical sense.

A ship orbiting you at 1km/sec -aand at 1000km distance: An orbit that size has perimeter of 3141.59km, so it would take your enemy almost an hour to orbit you once. From your viewpoint, it takes them almost ten seconds to move 1/360th of a full orbit.-aAka - they appear to be barely moving. That's all I was highlighting. Orbiting becomes tactically far less useful provided it's for tactical reasons.. So parallax was kind of relevant, but I hope that clears it up.

Simetraz wrote:

Kale Eledar wrote:

[

"just because I want to" won't work - every gameplay mechanic requires programming work. You have to consider CCP not thinking it's worth the ramifications of changing auto-abilities. it could have unforseen effects that they do not want to deal with if they don't have to.

Occam's razor!

I am afraid that answer doesn't cut it.I have lost count how many times CCP has openly admitted a mechanic they put into the game was used for something totally different then what it was intended for.

I gave you my main theory before which offered several ideas. I did qualify my post with "my guess is"; just offering my input. Plus, orbiting is kind of a physics thing that already exists...not something CCP invented. Including it in a space game makes sense, within reason, no?The specific point at which you can't orbit may have had an original reason that became obsoleted, too - or they picked an arbitrary point.-aUtimately, CCP is the only thing that can answer your question with finality. I am sorry the previous one isn't good enough for you, but you haven't answered my question, either, and it's not a difficult one to answer, I'd like to think! :)

EdwardNardella brings up an interesting point, though. That is odd, certainly.

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