Pristine is a strong term. There is a current fight in NorAZ and Kentucky about this right now. Black Canyon of the Gunnison is taking comments as well. End 10/27. Black Canyon could get some severe restrictions.

Really? Pristine a "strong term"

You obviously don't even live in the area or understand the dynamics to the issues at hand. The BCG has nothing to do with the above.

Restrictions on climbing already exist dumbass. You think because a guide book goes OOP that it's no longer a climbing area? Are you for real? Obviously you're an Idiot based on your comment and knowledge of the area.

Hmmmmm......

Needles guide book has been OOP for quite some time, but strangely climbers go there EVERY year!!!!

Maybe if you did your homework you would have gotten something more then an 8th grade education.

I would have to agree with Jimbo on this. Its not a bouldering area its a natural area for all to enjoy. Its not the climbing community that governs this area. Ill go start a fire under that roof any time I feel fit. I probably wont do it, but I would not be detoured from it just because some guy climbs it. Its the community's area and others have the right to use it in any way that is legal. Get off you high horses and just accept that climbers are not the law of the rocks and natural areas, like they seem to think they are. Have fun, climb trad and get over it. Gosh I know so many areas where folks put bolts and it pisses me off, but hey what you gonna do. I would to love to chop quite a few bolts off the peaks but im not gonna. So what is right and wrong here. I guess there isnt a right or wrong just tolerance.

Since when were Farmers stewards of the land? I grew up in the midwest and been everywhere since and havent met any farmers that actually respect the land or its dwellers. Otherwise they would be doing perm a-culture. And Im pretty sure that most climbers have little respect for it as well. "Sport climbing is a yuppy exercise craze." I heard that on a film the other day and almost died laughing.

It's true, anyone can light a fire under any of the problems in the Draw, but there's a campsite nearby and plenty of open space near every problem so why not go to a spot where a fire won't effect anyone, and everyone can be happy?

If you have to take a shit, you're probably not going pull your pants down and unload in the middle of your living room (even though you paid for the house, and you can do whatever you want) because other people (i.e. your now angry wife/girlfriend/children/friends) might wanna hang out in there and watch TV, or bash sport climbers. So, you'll probably make the short walk to the bathroom and take a shit in the toilet because...that's where everyone shits.

So, on behalf of climbers from Flagstaff, or just anyone who climbs at any of the local crags on a regular basis: don't shit in our living room. It's just not cool.

p.s. I know the analogy indicates that Flagstaff climbers own the local crags, and we don't. I get it. It's just meant to be a funny way of making an argument. So, what we need now is someone to write a response using the terms "egocentric" or "high horse", which they then follow by raining down judgment and criticism on everyone else.

How's this one: I think it's egocentric, or maybe ethnocentric, to think that the person or persons responsible for this are reading this forum.

In fact, I propose this: Anyone reading this forum (like myself) and is visiting this area has come there specifically to climb, and is therefor, probably not going to abuse (as you imply) the rock.

People that go there to camp, whether messy (Rednecks, as David Sahalie first said) or Leave-No-Trace campers might not even be aware if there's a climbing spot there. They probably think "This is a cool place to camp." And that's the end of their thought process.

Fire, fire, fire.... Climbers shit all over the climbing areas ive been too. Maybe they like to shit in their own living rooms. I think thats what climbing is all about now.shitting in living rooms, hell youll go out and retrobolt trad climbs. if thats not shittin I dont know what to call it. Anyway, this was fun. Peace. Oh yeah, Jim and I are kool. I admire his contributions and ethics. Im just a bit grumpy at times. especially when it comes to bad bolts. Hell I climb like shit now anyway. Actually im gettin better hangin up here with Chris. I just dont have the same desire as I use too. I think the climbing community ruined it for me. Just the climbing world. What a bunch of addicts.

I know who set the fire. It was this southern kid with long hair and a bad moustache. He used to live and flag and never sent carnivore so he decided to make the roof pay. He is living on the road now and was so excited about the controversy he caused he will now be going around to all your favorite climbing areas burning and shitting on everything that is classic. If you see him try and stop his fury by buying him food and beer. I here he is quite partial to tinderbox burgers and vodka on the rocks.

I know who set the fire. It was this southern kid with long hair and a bad moustache. He used to live and flag and never sent carnivore so he decided to make the roof pay. He is living on the road now and was so excited about the controversy he caused he will now be going around to all your favorite climbing areas burning and shitting on everything that is classic. If you see him try and stop his fury by buying him food and beer. I here he is quite partial to tinderbox burgers and vodka on the rocks.

Within the past two weeks someone had a campfire underneath the Anorexic roof at Priest Draw. Now the entire exit of Anorexic, and a good portion of the rest of the roof is covered in soot. The route is still climbable, and Carnivore and Carnivore Direct are mostly untouched by the soot, but this is still an incredibly inconsiderate act. It's possible that it is not a climber at fault, but in any case we should spread the word and let people know that this happened and it is not okay. I know 99% of people have the common sense to know better, but we need to let people know to: NOT LIGHT ANY FIRES UNDER OR NEAR BOULDERS! and ONLY USE DESIGNATED AREAS IN CAMPSITES! If anyone is planning on heading to the Draw in the near future, bring a big brush and give the Anorexic Roof a courtesy scrub. I know a lot of people have tried to clean it already. Let's keep the classics classic.

This is really sad!! Can the forest service be contacted for permission to put up a sign concerning this???

This is really sad!! Can the forest service be contacted for permission to put up a sign concerning this???

Careful what you wish for.

Benjamin Chapman wrote:

Since when did climbing/bouldering take precedent over all other uses of the rock in Priest Draw? I'm certain that holds coated with chalk and the areas around the base of rocks/boulders trampled and denuded of vegetation is equally unsightly to others who use the area. Don't be so egocentric!!

What if someone wanted to call the FS to complain about climbers trampling vegetation.

When someone is looking to develop new boulder problems see's a rock with a large amount of plant life growing under it maybe they should just say oh well. But that's not the usual scenario is it. Not arguing against development just saying maybe there should be some basic consideration of plant life and a willingness to forgo climbing on every single rock face.

If someone chooses to trample veg and creates an appealing spot to start a fire well maybe that's karmic justice.

Ya the fact that some climbers decided to climb on this boulder makes it off limits to any other use. Don't these fire starters know bouldering is sacrosanct and takes precedence over any other use of a rock! Here's a historical tidbit guys, Indians, trappers, and backpackers were lighting fires underneath boulders to stay warm and stay out of the rain long before you showed up with your mattresses and boom boxes. Whats more unsightly or more damaging, a line of soot or crossing lines of chalk and obliterated pad trampled undergrowth? You all might want to tone down the egocentric rant a bit. Just saying.

As an avid climber and outdoorsman, I respect what the climbing folks are trying to say. But I would have to agree that it is very egocentric to think that your use of this boulder/overhang is more worthy or important than another's. Get over yourself and remember that nature is there for all of us. Chalk baggers and campers alike!

the difference is that climbers are legitimate user group. inbred toothless rednecks that chop down living trees, go 'muddin' in their trucks, and burn gasoline fires with all manners of mcdonalds plastic in them are not a user group.

I totally agree with you on this point. But I don't recall anything in the OP about motorized incursions by off roaders.

And I see that you too have figured out how the interweb works. Posting up stupid redneck photos is a very intellectual way of responding. Not.

Careful what you wish for. What if someone wanted to call the FS to complain about climbers trampling vegetation. When someone is looking to develop new boulder problems see's a rock with a large amount of plant life growing under it maybe they should just say oh well. But that's not the usual scenario is it. Not arguing against development just saying maybe there should be some basic consideration of plant life and a willingness to forgo climbing on every single rock face. If someone chooses to trample veg and creates an appealing spot to start a fire well maybe that's karmic justice.