Has there ever been here a discussion or attempt to make a list of all the reasons for believing in Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ? If not, let's start one right here. Then I'll collect all the reasons and turn it into an article. And if one already exists, someone please direct me to it. Thanks, Gary Amirault.

I'll start the list. Let's keep the answers pithy, short, clear and to the point.

Love Never Fails. 1 Cor. 13:8

Nothing is impossible with God. Mat. 19:26

God commands us to pray for all people. Why command Christians to pray for people if He plans to send them to the eternal incinerator? 1 Tim. 2:1-6

Jesus came to save the world. If He misses a single soul, He can't be the "savior of the world." 1 John 4:14 John 12:32 John 4:42

Is it "just" to consign someone to eternal punishment for finite crimes or for simply being born into a world of sin? No one was ever asked whether they wanted to be born into a world of sin and death from which very few will ever escape according to traditional Christianity.

1 FIRST OF all, then, I admonish and urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be offered on behalf of all men,

2 For kings and all who are in positions of authority or high responsibility, that [outwardly] we may pass a quiet and undisturbed life [and inwardly] a peaceable one in all godliness and reverence and seriousness in every way.

3 For such [praying] is good and right, and [it is] pleasing and acceptable to God our Savior,

4 Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth.

5 For there [is only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

6 Who gave Himself as a ransom for all [people, a fact that was] attested to at the right and proper time.

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Faith

How can anyone claim to have salvation over a child who has been kidnapped at the age of 7 or 8, trained to kill and become a soldier and dies at the age of 18. Those people who proclaim they will have no emotion watching their loved ones or anyone in torture have the same mentality as those who are kidnapping these children to be soldiers.

I cant find a verse where we are suppose to stop loving people or stop having compassion for anyone, even if they are being tormented.

Without bible verses it is very obvious all will be saved since we were not all given the same chance to become believers as all others in this world and as those in the time past. I shudder to think if those people in the first verse get to have world domination over others.

How can anyone claim to have salvation over a child who has been kidnapped at the age of 7 or 8, trained to kill and become a soldier and dies at the age of 18. Those people who proclaim they will have no emotion watching their loved ones or anyone in torture have the same mentality as those who are kidnapping these children to be soldiers.

Worse because the hell of the children ends after 10 years. And the kidnappers want their kids to succeed.

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

jesushandsarekindhands

I believe it and have done for a long time because i believe thats what Jesus would have wanted...Whenever ive ever been close to Jesus in my thoughts and actions (as close as a sinner like me can get), hurting anyone is the last thought on my mind...Helping them maybe, encourageing them, loving them...but never burning anyone in a lake forever! Its actually ridicoulous.

Has there ever been here a discussion or attempt to make a list of all the reasons for believing in Universal Salvation through Jesus Christ? If not, let's start one right here. Then I'll collect all the reasons and turn it into an article. And if one already exists, someone please direct me to it. Thanks, Gary Amirault.

I'll start the list. Let's keep the answers pithy, short, clear and to the point.

1 Corinthians 3:9-15 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

God burns the sins not the sinner.

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

I know many such verses are discussed here in many posts, perhaps people didn't see your post or didn't want to repeat it all here. I know I just saw your post. Anyway, here are some of my favorite reasons for believing in UR:

God is Love (1 John 4:8). 1 Cor 13 tells us Love is patient, kind, always protecting, not keeping a record of wrongs.... therefore God is also patient, kind, protecting and not keeping a record of wrongs. But how can God be any of these things if He gives up on a man and allows or purposes that man to be tormented for eternity (or annihilated)?

God wills and desires all to be saved (1 Tim 2:4), and all His desires will be achieved (Isaiah 55:11, Isaiah 46:10, Job 23:13), so He will accomplish his desire and will to save all men!

But will some still reject Christ even though God clearly desires and wills it (and can achieve His will)? NO, all will swear allegiance (Check Isaiah 45:23 in the NASB). Swearing allegiance is a willing oath of loyalty, this is no forced confession. All will willingly and gladly come to Christ, and God desires it be so, therefore it will be so.

God is unchanging. He does not change his mind like a man, nor does He change His plan nor purpose. Therefore He will continue to save people after they have already died, because that is His desire: to save all mankind.

Titus 2:11 in the CEV puts it bluntly: "God has shown us how kind he is by coming to save all people." How can you argue with that? God is so kind that He comes to save all people!

Rev 15:4 asks the rhetorical question "Who will not fear the Lord?" And the answer is no one. In Psalm 145:19 it tells us "He fulfills the desires of those who fear him; he hears their cry and saves them." Did you catch it? God saves those who fear Him, and Rev 15:4 tells us ALL will one day fear Him.

Gen 28:14 tells us "All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring" (referring to Abraham's seed). Well how much of a blessing is it if I find out my great grandmother is burning for eternity while I am "blessed" in heaven?

Eph 1:9-10 gives us a glimpse of God's plan which has been hidden from most people (for ages). The amplified version explains it well:

Eph 1:9 Making known to us the mystery (secret) of His will (of His plan, of His purpose). [And it is this:] In accordance with His good pleasure (His merciful intention) which He had previously purposed and set forth in [a]Him,10 [He planned] for the maturity of the times and the climax of the ages to unify all things and head them up and consummate them in Christ, [both] things in heaven and things on the earth.

Read that with an open mind and you will see God's plan of UR has indeed been kept secret, but is now being revealed to a few people (the "elect" identified in Eph 1:5). And God's amazing plan is this: to UNIFY ALL THINGS IN CHRIST! This include everyone, not just the "elect" who understand it now, but every single human who has existed.

Some will say God's wrath is eternal because God IS WRATH (therefore there must be an eternal hell) as well as also beleiving GOD IS LOVE. That is a contradictory statement. God is love, but God is not wrath. He only shows wrath, when it is required to ultimately meet His loving purpose to unify all things in Christ. God's wrath will end. The proof is in Rev 15:1 and other verses (Isa 57:16, Mic 7:18, etc). Again read Rev 15:1 in the Amplified version so it is crystal clear:

Rev 15:1 There were seven angels bringing seven plagues (afflictions, calamities), which are the last, for with them God's wrath (indignation) is completely expressed [reaches its climax and is ended].

Let me repeat it again if you missed it: God's wrath is completetely expressed here and then IS ENDED!

Of course we can't forget 1 Tim 4:10 which tells us God is the savior of all men, but those who believe are saved in a special way (they get to understand His secret plan to unify all things in Christ, and they get to know God FIRST). Col 1:20 tells us God is reconciling the world, other verses say Jesus is the savior of the world, takes away the sins of the world, and is the atoning sacrifice for the world. Some might protest and say "world" doesn't mean "all people", but if Jesus doesn't take away the sins of the world, then some sin will be left in existence FOREVER. Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil (which is SIN), but He failed miserably IF SOME SINS EXIST FOREVER.

I could go on and on but its all good news. The whole bible is all good news. Even the fact that God creates and allows evil - that is still good news in the long run because it teaches people how to be good and how to love. Evil will be abolished eventually, but the goodness and love will last forever. Its good news for ALL people, just like Luke 2:10 says!

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jesushandsarekindhands

I love the story of Jonah because to me, Jonah is like a modern day hell preaching Christian...Jonah knew God was good so he didnt preach where God told him too, he wanted to see them suffer, but God was greater....

(I've highlighted the parts that stand out to me).

Jonah 4Jonah's Anger at the Lord 's Compassion

1 But Jonah was greatly displeased and became angry. 2 He prayed to the LORD, "O LORD, is this not what I said when I was still at home? That is why I was so quick to flee to Tarshish. I knew that you are a gracious and compassionate God, slow to anger and abounding in love, a God who relents from sending calamity. 3 Now, O LORD, take away my life, for it is better for me to die than to live." 4 But the LORD replied, "Have you any right to be angry?" 5 Jonah went out and sat down at a place east of the city. There he made himself a shelter, sat in its shade and waited to see what would happen to the city. 6 Then the LORD God provided a vine and made it grow up over Jonah to give shade for his head to ease his discomfort, and Jonah was very happy about the vine. 7 But at dawn the next day God provided a worm, which chewed the vine so that it withered. 8 When the sun rose, God provided a scorching east wind, and the sun blazed on Jonah's head so that he grew faint. He wanted to die, and said, "It would be better for me to die than to live."

9 But God said to Jonah, "Do you have a right to be angry about the vine?" "I do," he said. "I am angry enough to die."

10 But the LORD said, "You have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. 11 But Nineveh has more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that great city?"

Jesus would have to be in hell burning now in order to save anyone if that is our punishment for not repenting and believing in him.If hell is our punishment, then that debt hasn't been paid for. Shouldn't that mean no one will be saved?

The salvation of all is the only thing that makes any sense, that is why I believe it.

(Rev. 5:13) And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth,and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power,be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

CHB

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Lydiah

Love indeed never fails. God is Love and Mercy and Justice and Salvation. I am one who is here to understand this view but I have questions. I am not trying to bait or hurt anyone. I don't want to be a Pharisee. I was drawn to this site after praying in the Holy Spirit. I really want to know how Universalism is biblical. I have been reading posts on the Tentmaker site. I look to sharpen my face like you. I watched the videos (forgot the site) and sent them to my parents. Here is my question.

Doesn't the belief in Universalism make Jesus sacrifice unnecessary? The "condition" is always that we receive the calling of God and believe in Jesus (1John 4..."test the inspired expression to see if it is true..."). He gives us faith if we ask for it but we must allow it. The Jewish nation and the Law pointed to the need for a redeemer and I believe we are saved by Yahshua's sacrifice and my acceptance of it. I don't believe in a place of torment either, but death (the grave) and resurrection of All those in the tombs so that All are given a chance to receive Jesus or reject Him. That gives us a choice. You can offer me a gift and I can refuse it. If there is no choice and even Satan gets to rebel and be forgiven, what would prevent future rebellion? Are we programmed to obey? Is God just currently subjecting us all to futility? I really don't understand. Please help me if this is posted in the wrong spot too. Lydia

I don't believe in a place of torment either, but death (the grave) and resurrection of All those in the tombs so that All are given a chance to receive Jesus or reject Him.

It's a bit how you define chance perhaps; but it isn't really a chance but a fact that all will (eventually) receive Jesus.God drags all man to Him. He's not begging.Joh_6:44 - No one can come to Him unless He draws them. You can't "chose" to follow Him.

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That gives us a choice. You can offer me a gift and I can refuse it.

That's a often heard ET argument. Boils down to this: 100% gets the offer. 5% accept it. 95% goes to hell because they choose eternal torture.

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If there is no choice and even Satan gets to rebel and be forgiven, what would prevent future rebellion?

Did satan rebel? He was a murderer from the beginning. Sounds he was always evil.

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Are we programmed to obey? Is God just currently subjecting us all to futility? I really don't understand.

Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all.

Lydia: You asked some questions about free will, satan, fallen angels etc.It's a very long article but answers all/many of your questions I think. I also think many on this forum agree with most of the article.Lake of Fire Series halfway down teh page: http://bible-truths.com/

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Lydiah

Thank you I will look at it :>). It just seems that throughout the Word, we are told that God will save us all IF we choose to serve Him and accept His Son. I will read about the demons and Satan and ponder and pray in the Spirit. Thank you for your response. Lydia

"Now listen carefully. Here is wisdom beyond its years. When a scientist creates an experiment or machine that malfunctions, is he responsible for the malfunction? Yes. Does he hold the experiment or machine responsible? No. Does he hold God responsible? No. Okay."

This brought me up short in a hurry - It is where the original flaw in reason is inserted in my view. It is a direct quote from an article on the site you sent me (bible truths). Adam and Eve were made PERFECT, SATAN was also perfect. Ezekiel 28:15 "You were perfect in your ways, from the day you were created, until unrighteous was found in you." Satan made a choice, Adam and Eve were also perfect and made a choice. Yahweh did not will them to sin. They chose to do it. For God to be love, He must give us the right to choose him. Otherwise we are animals following an instinct. We can not love without choice. That made rebellion a possibility. Gods Sovereignty was challenged. The case against Him proffered by Satan (false accusation, calling God a liar) had to be resolved. Satan told them (Adam and Eve) Yahweh was a liar. Satan said they would be like Him if they ate from the tree God restricted them from. He only put the tree there to allow them a choice to obey or not. He gave them everything they could possibly want and only the one restriction to give them a chance to love Him by keeping His commandment. Remember the scripture in 1John..."for this is what the love of God means..that you keep my commandments..." It was true in the Garden as well. What did Yahweh tell them? If you eat from the tree (He said not to) you will positively die...Period. He never said they would burn in Hellfire, but they would cease to exist. I believe they went to the second death Rev. 21:8 because they were perfect and chose to disobey. That is why Satan also goes to the second death. All men who died in sin because they were born in sin (imperfection) get a second chance. But this shows that even perfect humans and angels can choose to rebel. Yahweh offers salvation to everyone born to our original parents, but they must do their part. Choose Life. Lydiah

The way I read it Father doesn't save anyone. His Son is taking care of that task.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. => God gives full control to JesusJohn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.=> The task of Jesus is to give eternal life to all things (=mankind)John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. =>And Jesus accomplishes His task

Noticed the word 'shall'. Not possibly, maybe, hopes to, etc

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Colossians 1:19-20 or it pleased the Father .... to reconcile all things unto himself (=God); by him, => reconcile = bring back a former state of harmony => 95% of humanity in hell isn't a (former) state of harmony.1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;=> Mercy is given to the wicked.Isaiah 1:18 .... though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. => Shall means it will happen. It's what God wants. Man has no choice in this matter.=> White and wool represent a pure soul.=> All with a pure soul will enter HeavenIsaiah 25:6-8 .... make unto all people a feast of fat things....And he will destroy .... the vail that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces....John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh(=by force) away the sin of the world. John 3:17 God sent his Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but to save the world. (world=mankind)John 4:42 .... and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 12:32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Luke 2:10 ... Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.=> Joy in hell?Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.Matthew 18:11 for the Son of Man did come to save the lost. Psalm 65:2-3 ... all people approach you. Our record of sins overwhelms me, but you forgive our acts of rebellion. Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Þ Including calls from hell.Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience so that he may be merciful to all. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 .... God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth 1 Timothy 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time1 Timothy 4:10 For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers.

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

It just seems that throughout the Word, we are told that God will save us all IF we choose to serve Him and accept His Son.

Hi Lydiah,

If it is up to us to choose, serve, and accept Christ in order to gain salvation, then salvation would not be of grace but our works. Salvation would depend on us, not Christ. Salvation would be in our hands, not Christ's, if the above were true.

Lydiah

It just seems that throughout the Word, we are told that God will save us all IF we choose to serve Him and accept His Son.

Hi Lydiah,

If it is up to us to choose, serve, and accept Christ in order to gain salvation, then salvation would not be of grace but our works. Salvation would depend on us, not Christ. Salvation would be in our hands, not Christ's, if the above were true.

CHB

It sounds good but it never answers what about the rest of God's word that tells us that some choose not to be saved? Answer that question so I can understand. Did God just have the Spirit have men right down all that to confuse us??

Lydiah

I am not confused by it. Nothing he chooses to do is impossible. I don't think He chooses to negate your choice to choose or reject Him. For centuries people have quoted these scriptures that seem to contradict to make a case for not believing the bible. No matter how many scriptures are quoted to negate the verses that clearly show that some will rebel (not to mention the angels that have already done so), no one has given me an answer to what you do with the myriad of scripture that says that some will choose death (*white wings keeps mentioning hell though I have said I believe in eternal death NOT HELLFIRE). This appears to be filibuster on UR not discussion.

The good news is if I am incorrect, it doesn't matter anyway :>) Right? "It's all good" according to UR. I can serve Buddha have Idols be a Satan worshiper and in the end, it won't matter, right? I will be saved no matter what I do. That sounds dangerously like Hebrews 10:28 "Think how much worse the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, who treated as something common the blood of the covenant.." As you most likely know in the scriptures it tells us that we can sin against the Father and the Son, but if we sin against the Holy Spirit, we can't be forgiven in this life or the next.. How does UR explain that? There are too many holes in this that I can not reconcile in light of the Word of God. p.s. The Word of God is God, yes? Therefore it is an interchangeable truth that Yah is salvation, through the Word of Yah (Yahshua) we are reconciled to Yah HalleluYah! Lydia

I am not confused by it. Nothing he chooses to do is impossible. I don't think He chooses to negate your choice to choose or reject Him. For centuries people have quoted these scriptures that seem to contradict to make a case for not believing the bible. No matter how many scriptures are quoted to negate the verses that clearly show that some will rebel (not to mention the angels that have already done so), no one has given me an answer to what you do with the myriad of scripture that says that some will choose death (*white wings keeps mentioning hell though I have said I believe in eternal death NOT HELLFIRE). This appears to be filibuster on UR not discussion.

The good news is if I am incorrect, it doesn't matter anyway :>) Right? "It's all good" according to UR. I can serve Buddha have Idols be a Satan worshiper and in the end, it won't matter, right? I will be saved no matter what I do. That sounds dangerously like Hebrews 10:28 "Think how much worse the punishment deserved by someone who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, who treated as something common the blood of the covenant.." As you most likely know in the scriptures it tells us that we can sin against the Father and the Son, but if we sin against the Holy Spirit, we can't be forgiven in this life or the next.. How does UR explain that? There are too many holes in this that I can not reconcile in light of the Word of God. p.s. The Word of God is God, yes? Therefore it is an interchangeable truth that Yah is salvation, through the Word of Yah (Yahshua) we are reconciled to Yah HalleluYah! Lydia

Yes, there is death, including the death of everything that's not of God. Our works not of Him burned, the flesh destroyed so the spirit will be saved (I Cor. 5:5)

If you serve Buddha and worship Satan, then #1, your heart's not yet right, you don't love the Father or His Son, and those things will be corrected, "as by fire". You will stand before Him and suffer shame and loss. You will go through a process of discipline that will be painful, it will test and purge you until you reach the place of falling at His feet and confessing Him as Lord.

The scripture of "blashemy won't be forgiven..." is correctly translated age, not life.

There's much to learn, and I believe these are but a few of the things to be searched out, to have revealed to us. (Prov. 25:2).

white wings keeps mentioning hell though I have said I believe in eternal death NOT HELLFIRE). This appears to be filibuster on UR not discussion

Filibuster? Don't let me laugh. Get that beam out of your eye. It's you peddling your doctrine and tacticly ignoring every answer given.

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The good news is if I am incorrect,

Yes, you are. (as you could have know by reading a few replies.

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it doesn't matter anyway :>) Right? "It's all good" according to UR. I can serve Buddha have Idols be a Satan worshiper and in the end, it won't matter, right?

Wrong. You are just as wrong with your unscriptual "eternal death" as with your assumption on what UR is.Question: Did you even care to read the title of this thread? Guess not reading your assumption...

« Last Edit: November 14, 2009, 09:06:47 PM by WhiteWings »

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...