(20-02-2014 01:00 PM)Simon Moon Wrote: All that is needed for abiogenesis to be (way) less absurd than your god, is to demonstrate that it is not impossible.

That has been done. Every step along the way has been shown to be possible. There is not a single step where scientists throw up their hands in frustration and claim, "can't explain this step, that must be the place where god stepped in". No magic is needed.

1. Simple molecules combining in various longer chains. Always following physical laws. This can be observed in any chem class.

No magic here...

2. Organic molecules. Shown possible in numerous experiments.

No magic here...

3.Monomers that are able to combine with other molecules creating polymers.

No magic here...

4. RNA enzymes from polymers.

Or here...

5. Longer stable RNA strands that self replicate. This has been done in labs in 2011. Google 'self replicating RNA enzymes created in lab'.

Still no magic...

6. Formation of biological polymers from monomers is a function of the laws of chemistry and biochemistry, and these are decidedly not random.

Not sure where this step is in the chain of events, but it is a non-magic process.

7. Protobiont.

8. Prokaryote cell.

9. Simple bacteria.

Zero magic...

Again, this is probably not how it actually occurred. But the very fact that there are explanations for each step that are all possible via natural processes, make it far more likely than "god did it".

Seems better to work on items which don't have a positive side like religion.

Positive as in Deuteronomy 20:16, "In the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you"?

1. Simple molecules combining in various longer chains. Always following physical laws. This can be observed in any chem class.

No magic here...

2. Organic molecules. Shown possible in numerous experiments.

No magic here...

3.Monomers that are able to combine with other molecules creating polymers.

No magic here...

4. RNA enzymes from polymers.

Or here...

5. Longer stable RNA strands that self replicate. This has been done in labs in 2011. Google 'self replicating RNA enzymes created in lab'.

Still no magic...

6. Formation of biological polymers from monomers is a function of the laws of chemistry and biochemistry, and these are decidedly not random.

Not sure where this step is in the chain of events, but it is a non-magic process.

7. Protobiont.

8. Prokaryote cell.

9. Simple bacteria.

Zero magic...

Again, this is probably not how it actually occurred. But the very fact that there are explanations for each step that are all possible via natural processes, make it far more likely than "god did it".

(20-02-2014 02:34 PM)docskeptic Wrote: Positive as in Deuteronomy 20:16, "In the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you"?

No, positive as in the good samaritan, the golden rule, hospitals, soup kitchens, etc.

(20-02-2014 02:31 PM)Simon Moon Wrote: 1. Simple molecules combining in various longer chains. Always following physical laws. This can be observed in any chem class.

No magic here...

2. Organic molecules. Shown possible in numerous experiments.

No magic here...

3.Monomers that are able to combine with other molecules creating polymers.

No magic here...

4. RNA enzymes from polymers.

Or here...

5. Longer stable RNA strands that self replicate. This has been done in labs in 2011. Google 'self replicating RNA enzymes created in lab'.

Still no magic...

6. Formation of biological polymers from monomers is a function of the laws of chemistry and biochemistry, and these are decidedly not random.

Not sure where this step is in the chain of events, but it is a non-magic process.

7. Protobiont.

8. Prokaryote cell.

9. Simple bacteria.

Zero magic...

Again, this is probably not how it actually occurred. But the very fact that there are explanations for each step that are all possible via natural processes, make it far more likely than "god did it".

(20-02-2014 02:34 PM)docskeptic Wrote: Positive as in Deuteronomy 20:16, "In the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you"?

No, positive as in the good samaritan, the golden rule, hospitals, soup kitchens, etc.

What about this, alpha? I'll match all your "positive" Bible contributions with negative ones. Here, I'll start. 1 Samuel 15:3, "Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys"