mfb wrote:Some things are very easy to spot … This is a bit different from gravitational wave detectors …

Well that is my point from the start, the LHC can only detect the linear decay that I mentioned previously, but not the other vibrations that the LHC is producing at a frequency and density that is a billion times higher than Cosmic Rays in nature.

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich

There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.

and if LIGO detects waves from BH's that are 2 million light years away

Roughly a billion light years away. From two black holes with tens of solar masses, releasing the energy-equivalent of three solar masses in fractions of a second. These black hole mergers briefly have a power exceeding the total power (all types of emission) of every other source in the observable universe combined.

There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.

You probably mean here 'detectable'.

… and of course not, because those signals drown within all the noise, as LIGO has shown how difficult it is to detect in all quietness waves within a limited spectrum, even at LIGO all the other frequencies of GW's are undetectable due to noise.

mfb wrote:

and if LIGO detects waves from BH's that are 2 million light years away

Roughly a billion light years away. From two black holes with tens of solar masses, releasing the energy-equivalent of three solar masses in fractions of a second. These black hole mergers briefly have a power exceeding the total power (all types of emission) of every other source in the observable universe combined.

Yes, and one can lit a forest fire with a tiny spark, that has similarly zillions of times less energy than an Atom-bomb, but it can be as devastating.

You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.

It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich

There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.

You probably mean here 'detectable'.

Both. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.

Yes, and one can lit a forest fire with a tiny spark, that has similarly zillions of times less energy than an Atom-bomb, but it can be as devastating.

You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.

There is not even a forest. The vacuum is the lowest-energy state.

It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.

mfb wrote:Both. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.

Sure one or two collisions per second are 'negligible' but it are many small creeks that feed a river.

mfb wrote:

You can even start such a fire with rubbing a piece of would often enough until it heats up. That's what's happening at the LHC, one super tiny rub after an other at an incredible high rate, until you get a flash.

There is not even a forest. The vacuum is the lowest-energy state.

Yes the Vacuum is the lowest-energy state, but not without energy, it can transmit gravity-waves, that in turn can heat up matter that surrounds the collision spot. Just like during a forest fire; where a couple of spark can lit up a tree, and how the heat is transmitted through the air to lit one tree after the other causing a chain-reaction.

So I am not saying that the Vacuum will combust, but it can transmit heat-waves from one Atom, that combusts and collapses, onto the next one. Earth is made of nothing than Atoms => Forest.

mfb wrote:

It is the law of multiplication 9.000.000.000 times 1 within 1 second, heating things up.

There is nothing to heat up.

The LHC squeezes the bunches into one collision spot:

That is like a magnifying glass bundling heat into one spot to start a fire:

But it isn't the air that starts to burn, it is what surrounds the collision spot.

--

Now we are at A. The incipient stage, moving on to B. The smouldering stage, but we are not able to detect the fumes, so just keep on going until one point where we get at C. The flaming stage and it is too late.

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich

mfb wrote:
There is no indication that it could, and these black holes would be obvious if they would have been produced. Even if could, they wouldn't produce notable gravitational waves.

You probably mean here 'detectable'.

Both. It is something like 50 to 100 orders of magnitude too weak to be detected, and also 20 to 50 orders of magnitude too weak to play a role in the collision. It is so utterly negligible that it doesn't even need more precise estimates.

Someone asked me today where you got these numbers because there's nothing published on particle collisions generating gravitational waves. Could you enlighten us or was it just some hand waving?

Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your own living room.Wear Sunscreen by Baz Luhrmann - Mary Schmich