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It sure looks like dodging taxes to me. However, I asked for a real verifiable example of this working. That means, someone taking it to court and winning. As it is right now, either the reason you haven't been caught (again, right?) is dumb luck, or you have taken it to court and you have the documents to prove the legality of your "system". If so, I'd like to see those documents.

I wish I could accomodate your desires, but, I don't know of anyone using my detax methods who has been taken to court. Sorry.

You are asking me to prove a negative. Even the 'highly intelligent' lawyer who started this thread couldn't likely prove a negative.

If you want 'proof of legality', then you are of the mindset that you are a slave of the Crown, and have to have permission of the corporate slave owner to do what Creator Diety granted to you as His Son. You have a long way to go before you are ready to remove the slave chains from your ankles.

Looks like it to me. He explicitly said that income tax is deducted from his paycheck. As his last job appears to have been as a bus driver, he probably never owes any more than what was initially deducted.

__________________"War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor

"Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

Not how it works. Rather than us proving a negative, the burden of proof is on you to prove that it works.

Why would I have such a burden. I don't charge you, nor anyone, for my information. As most 'debunkers' say: "Advice is worth what you pay for it." If that be the case, and you are a debunker, as obviously pretty much all of the other posters are on this thread, then you are free to ignore my website and my material. Hasn't cost you a penny.

If you want 'proof of legality', then you are of the mindset that you are a slave of the Crown, and have to have permission of the corporate slave owner to do what Creator Diety granted to you as His Son. You have a long way to go before you are ready to remove the slave chains from your ankles.

Yes, I want proof of legality. The rest of this paragraph basically says "then you are a citizen of a society", which I am, and so are you. We humans live in societies. We need laws to regulate these societies. We pay taxes in these societies to pay for communally utilized things, like infrastructure, health care, retirement benefits etc. I really have no interest in living in a society were nobody pays taxes, as that would mean a much worse society.

Why would I have such a burden. I don't charge you, nor anyone, for my information. As most 'debunkers' say: "Advice is worth what you pay for it." If that be the case, and you are a debunker, as obviously pretty much all of the other posters are on this thread, then you are free to ignore my website and my material. Hasn't cost you a penny.

The burden of proof is on you if you want to make the claim that your "system" is legal. If you waive the burden of proof, we take that as admission that your system isn't legal.

This is how a debate works. The burden of proof is on the claimant - you. You can stop engaging in the debate if you don't want the burden of proof.

If Eldon Warman, the Crown owned legal name owes taxes, it will pay taxes. But, as long as the free will adult man commonly called Eldon determines the fee paid to ELDON WARMAN, that entity will never owe taxes.

By the way, the all caps spelling just means that the entity is pledged as chattel in bankruptcy (of the corporate Government). It is the conversion of a family name of the 'registered' child to a 'sur' or 'primary' name that makes the legal fiction/legal name. A child is considered property, and can be named. An adult man cannot be 'identity' named.

If Eldon Warman, the Crown owned legal name owes taxes, it will pay taxes. But, as long as the free will adult man commonly called Eldon determines the fee paid to ELDON WARMAN, that entity will never owe taxes.

By the way, the all caps spelling just means that the entity is pledged as chattel in bankruptcy (of the corporate Government). It is the conversion of a family name of the 'registered' child to a 'sur' or 'primary' name that makes the legal fiction/legal name. A child is considered property, and can be named. An adult man cannot be 'identity' named.

Why can't you refer to yourself as "me" or "I" instead of "the entity". Speaking of yourself in third person just make you sound nuts.

And, you are wrong. An adult man can be named, and does have an identity. This identity is used by him to claim benefits from society, and by society to regulate the individual.

If Eldon Warman, the Crown owned legal name owes taxes, it will pay taxes. But, as long as the free will adult man commonly called Eldon determines the fee paid to ELDON WARMAN, that entity will never owe taxes.

This is hilarious. Eldon Warman (free will human) doesn't pay taxes, but ELDON WARMAN (slave to Rome) does. Of course, all of ELDON WARMAN's income is earned by Eldon Warman, so the whole charade is a distinction without a difference.

Eldon pays his taxes. Good boy.

__________________"War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor

"Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

Looks like it to me. He explicitly said that income tax is deducted from his paycheck. As his last job appears to have been as a bus driver, he probably never owes any more than what was initially deducted.

Sorry, I have been an 'anti-slave's labour harvesting' advocate longer than I was a tour bus driver. And, I was an RCAF fighter pilot for 6 years, and an airline pilot and captain for 19 years. How many posters here have intelligence enough to perform those skilled occupations?

And, I have not filed an income tax return in Canada since 1964, when I was in the RCAF. I was in the USA from 1965 to 1985, and that is where my education on the evil scheme of income tax started to come to light for me.

Why no tax return has been demanded. Read Section 150 of the Income Tax Act of Canada. No return required if no tax owed. And, I certainly haven't lived on the street since 1985.

Sorry, I have been an 'anti-slave's labour harvesting' advocate longer than I was a tour bus driver. And, I was an RCAF fighter pilot for 6 years, and an airline pilot and captain for 19 years. How many posters here have intelligence enough to perform those skilled occupations?

Quite a number, I would expect, since none of the occupations you listed demand any excessive intelligence, but rather training. Training which was provided to you by tax funded organizations.

Sorry, I have been an 'anti-slave's labour harvesting' advocate longer than I was a tour bus driver. And, I was an RCAF fighter pilot for 6 years, and an airline pilot and captain for 19 years. How many posters here have intelligence enough to perform those skilled occupations?

And, I have not filed an income tax return in Canada since 1964, when I was in the RCAF. I was in the USA from 1965 to 1985, and that is where my education on the evil scheme of income tax started to come to light for me.

Why no tax return has been demanded. Read Section 150 of the Income Tax Act of Canada. No return required if no tax owed. And, I certainly haven't lived on the street since 1985.

There is a difference between "not filing a tax return" and "not paying taxes".

On behalf of other Canadians, thank you for paying your taxes.

__________________"War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor

"Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

This is hilarious. Eldon Warman (free will human) doesn't pay taxes, but ELDON WARMAN (slave to Rome) does. Of course, all of ELDON WARMAN's income is earned by Eldon Warman, so the whole charade is a distinction without a difference.

Eldon pays his taxes. Good boy.

Oh! Come now! How can something that only exists as a name on paper 'earn' income (whatever that is, since it is nowhere defined).

It takes a mind and physical body to do work, and work is exchanged for worthless fiat money in the con-game of fiat money. The only way ELDON WARMAN could have income is if the free will man was stupid enough to consider himself as being 'one and the same as' the legal name, Eldon Warman, and thus performed the work to get exchange. The free will adult man who uses the legal name, Eldon Warman as his agent in commerce (and, 'commerce' is trade or business at sea- for the lawyer), does not consider or consent to be identified by any name, as such would be a lie, if I were to consent to do that.

A family or clan name is NEVER a child's name, and, a man can have NO 'identifying' name.

Oh! Come now! How can something that only exists as a name on paper 'earn' income (whatever that is, since it is nowhere defined).

It takes a mind and physical body to do work, and work is exchanged for worthless fiat money in the con-game of fiat money. The only way ELDON WARMAN could have income is if the free will man was stupid enough to consider himself as being 'one and the same as' the legal name, Eldon Warman, and thus performed the work to get exchange. The free will adult man who uses the legal name, Eldon Warman as his agent in commerce
(and, 'commerce' is trade or business at sea- for the lawyer), does not consider or consent to be identified by any name, as such would be a lie,
if I were to consent to do that.

A family or clan name is NEVER a child's name, and,m a man can have NO 'identifying' name.

Well gosh. I guess you better ask the IRS and the CRA to repay those deductions then. 25 years as a pilot, you say? That's a lot of income tax that was unjustly taken from you. What's your plan to get it back?

__________________"War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor

"Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

Quite a number, I would expect, since none of the occupations you listed demand any excessive intelligence, but rather training. Training which was provided to you by tax funded organizations.

Why are you still coming up with this crap that taxes fund anything the Government does, especially, the Federal Government? Are you incapable of reading Beardsley Rum's speech that I show on my website in the first couple of pages on this thread?

And, what is your training? Training for skilled occupations requires high and capable intelligence. What is your skilled occupation?

Why can't you refer to yourself as "me" or "I" instead of "the entity". Speaking of yourself in third person just make you sound nuts.

And, you are wrong. An adult man can be named, and does have an identity. This identity is used by him to claim benefits from society, and by society to regulate the individual.

I do. The 'ENTITY' is the legal name, ELDON WARMAN/Eldon Warman.
That is not me, so it is a third party. 'I am, I, or Me, is all I call or refer to myself, the un-namable free will man.

No, you are Wrong. That is done through the agent in commerce, Eldon Warman. And, if other than Creator Diety's law 'regulates' a man, then that man is a slave of the regulator. Creator Diety's Law = Do no harm.

Refund on your income taxes. You know, those regular deductions from when you were a working man?

I salute you for letting the govt keep more of your money than is necessary.

Hasn't happened. Wonder why you cannot get it through your head that income tax is just the means to destroy fiat money so that new fiat money coming into existence by bank loans does not bloat the pig - cause inflation.

That would be fine if the people were given proper remuneration in goods or services for the plastic bags (fiat money) with their labour inside that are stolen from them to reduce the plastic bags filling the environment.

He just means that you are paying your taxes. It's good to know that you don't live like a free-loader just because you preach for free-loading.

Why are you happy that someone else is a victim of having slavery imposed upon him and having the fruits of his labour harvested by a corporate body that claims ownership of him. Is that your idea of a desirable or ideal human life? If you insist that I pay taxes, think as you wish. So skin off my derriere.

Wrong. Money borrowed from banks aren't created out of nothing, and tax money isn't borrowed from banks.

Originally Posted by EldonG

Well, if you are too stubborn to learn, and you think you are more intelligent and more informed than the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, then so be it.

I'm not too stubborn to learn. I'm just too smart not to fall for your BS. If the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York said that tax money isn't used for the things I've listed, I can think of three possibilities:

Why are you happy that someone else is a victim of having slavery imposed upon him and having the fruits of his labour harvested by a corporate body that claims ownership of him. Is that your idea of a desirable or ideal human life? If you insist that I pay taxes, think as you wish. So skin off my derriere.

I'm happy that you're doing your part in society. You see it as slavery, I see it as helping out.

I do. The 'ENTITY' is the legal name, ELDON WARMAN/Eldon Warman.
That is not me, so it is a third party. 'I am, I, or Me, is all I call or refer to myself, the un-namable free will man.

No, you are Wrong. That is done through the agent in commerce, Eldon Warman. And, if other than Creator Diety's law 'regulates' a man, then that man is a slave of the regulator. Creator Diety's Law = Do no harm.

He was forcibly retired (i.e., fired), but he could still be collecting a pension. If so, he's probably paying tax on that income through automatic deductions...and then not collecting his refund because he doesn't file a tax return. Too funny.

__________________"War exists within the continuum of politics, in which play is continuous, and no outcome is final, save for a global thermonuclear war, which might be." - Darth Rotor

"Life, like a Saturday afternoon, finds its ruination in purpose." - MdC

Parliament changed the law by making an amendment to the Bank of Canada Act stating:

25.(6) Notes of the Bank are neither promissory notes nor bills of exchange within the meaning of the Bills of Exchange Act.

You may be correct on this; however, the only version of the Bank of Canada Act published on the internet is the CANLII versions, Section 25 is in regard to shares of the Bank of Canada, and the Business Development Bank of Canada Act, Section 25 only has 3 subsections.

Originally Posted by JLord

As you can see there is no reference to reference to a ship at sea or a make-believe vessel. There is no need to reference a ship's script situation because fiat currency was a well known concept when this law was changed. Again, the fact that we have a fiat currency and that a ship's script could also be considered like a form of fiat currency does not mean the two are one in the same. Nor does it imply that parliament considered Canadian currency to be a form of ship's script.

There are specific definitions of "ship's script" and "fiat currency" that will show you the difference. Ship's script only applies to the specific situation of being on a ship. It doesn't mean that any other type of fiat currency not relating to ships has to be described in the terms of ship's script.

A ship's script is a form of fiat currency, that doesn't mean fiat currency is a ship's script. It is similar in some ways and different some ways. Similarly schizophrenia is a form of mental illness, but that doesn't mean a mental illness is always schizophrenia. You wouldn't look at a person with depression and say "he's got some wierd form of make-believe schizophrenia." You would just call it by the more accurate description "depression." So when faced with Canada having a fiat currency I am at a loss why anyone would try to describe it as "Canada has some wierd form of ship's script as currency where the country is a make believe ship and the citizens are like slave crewmembers." Just describe what is happening by the correct and most accurate English words that have been widely used for decades to describe the situation and say "Canada uses a fiat currency."

I would suspect that, as a lawyer, you understand the difference between 'evidence' and 'proof positive'? Regarding incorporated bodies being 'make-beileve ships at sea' ,and 'fiat currency' being a form of 'ship script', what can be said is that 'evidence' shows that such is the case.

I suppose, when one is so brainwashed into the box of the world of fiction and make-believe, as lawyers obviously are, one cannot expect to see any conclusions of evidence that is outside that box. I, however, am not encumbered by being in a mental box, and I can conclude that 'if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it most likely is a duck'.

If a man can be incarcerated or otherwise punished for disobedience to other men's rules and demands for performance, that man is NOT of 'free will status'. Corporate bodies, being fictional, make no rules, only men's minds within those fictional bodies make rules and demands for performance.

There is only one other status an man can be, and that is 'slave status'. And, by 'slave status' I mean as a vessel under tow, and subject to the administration of captain of the towing vessel - not the narrow definition of a 'worker slave', although, the income tax creates that condition for Canadians.

Wrong. Money borrowed from banks aren't created out of nothing, and tax money isn't borrowed from banks.

OK! from where does it come? Has you bank ever stated on your account reports that some or all of your money in your account has been loaned out?
Does all the money they loan out come from bank earnings from interest collected on other loans? Does the bank borrow money from the Bank of Canada? If so, where does the Bank of Canada get the money to loan to banks to lend out?

Originally Posted by uke2se

I'm not too stubborn to learn. I'm just too smart not to fall for your BS. If the President of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York said that tax money isn't used for the things I've listed, I can think of three possibilities:

You may be correct on this; however, the only version of the Bank of Canada Act published on the internet is the CANLII versions, Section 25 is in regard to shares of the Bank of Canada, and the Business Development Bank of Canada Act, Section 25 only has 3 subsections.

OK! from where does it come? Has you bank ever stated on your account reports that some or all of your money in your account has been loaned out?
Does all the money they loan out come from bank earnings from interest collected on other loans? Does the bank borrow money from the Bank of Canada? If so, where does the Bank of Canada get the money to loan to banks to lend out?

Look, it's pretty simple really. Let's break it down. On the one hand we have the "treasury", the money available for the government in their budget. This "treasury" is filled in part by tax money, the rest by interests, revenue from state owned corporations etc.

On the other hand we have you, the tax payer. You pay taxes on your salary and on transactions and on property etc. This money goes into the "treasury".

Money from this "treasury" is used to pay for all the things in the government's budget, including military spending, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, retirement benefits and all other expenses.

The government also loans money from banks to achieve their goals in a budget. This money isn't just "created" by the bank. It is money from their account holders.

So to summarize, the money you pay in taxes is used to fund the government's budget, which includes all the things needed for society to function.

I ask you again, were do you think the money for the budget come from? Also, were do you think the money you pay in taxes go?

ETA: If you're really that ignorant of how money is "created", look at this.

Originally Posted by EldonG

i didn't say that. Are you. perchance, looking into a mirror?

Then what did you say? What did the person you talked about say? What did it have to do with my original statement?

I'm happy that you're doing your part in society. You see it as slavery, I see it as helping out.

Yass Sah! Bossman! How are you helping out? Helping to prevent the Canadian Monopoly money from inflating by turning over the Canadian Monopoly money you foolishly accepted for your labour to be deleted from existence by CRA?

If we had real asset value money, like Canada had prior to 1932, there would be no inflation, and people who saved money for their retirement years would still have the money they exchanged for their labour for the years they cannot work. If there was a need for taxes, because there was not enough royalties collected for the natural resources harvested from the common property of the land called Canada, then, the Biblical 10% tithe would be adequate to do the job of financing needed services performed by a legitimate administrative committee (an unincorporated body - a Congress - a form of people's jury).

Well, who is the one here in delusion? The one supporting the world of fictional ships at sea, where mankind is made slaves of those copporate fictional bodies? Or the one teaching that an adult man is a free will mind and Son of Creator Diety, and has the natural unalienable rights of life, liberty, property and due process of law? And, by due process - no 'mens rea' damage or harm to another man - no law broken.

Your entire worldview is based on a delusion that has no basis in reality. You believe in it because you want to believe, because to recognize that its all fantasy would mean that you have to be responsible for your own actions. There is no secret law declaring we are all fictional ships at sea, there is no plot to make anyone a slave (in the first world, at least). You cry about wanting to be free while being a hypocrite and living in a society where you leech from the rest of us by claiming to avoid your taxes.

Originally Posted by EldonG

That is a statement for which you have no proof. I am the only party who has taught the method I use. And, I have no idea who has used my method, no one has reported even being cited with any charge bringing them into the administrative court system. Yes, some have had money stolen from bank accounts that were not properly set up, but they are warned in my program info to take asset protection precautions from outright theft by CRA or the IRS. If they don't heed the warnings, it is not my fault.

Actually, as I've already quoted from the IRS, your "method" is simply tax evasion and is fraud. Lots of have tried it, all have failed.

Originally Posted by EldonG

I use the analogy of the flimsy plastic bags one finds on the rolls at the produce section of the supermarket, as being a representation of the Canadian or American fiat currency. It is not those bags which have any value. It is the produce you have selected and paid for (defrauded the store owner by paying them fiat currency) that is in those plastic bags that has value to you. When you accept the worthless currency as exchange for your labour, the currency you have in your pocket or bank account is filled with the fruits of your labour. Now suppose you clear the grocery store checkout and proceed to your car in the parking lot, and are intercepted by store security demanding those bags with the store name on them. They don't give a damn what you have in them, they just want 50% of the bags back, which they then throw in the garbage bin. That is the story of income tax, and what CRA does when collecting the worthless fiat money from a working man.

Its to bad that your analogy doesn't work: I've never spent so much time and devoted my life to believing in delusions in order to protect supermarket bags.

Originally Posted by EldonG

Is that supposed to scare me, or others reading this forum? Who do you think I sent the IRS 1040 to in the summer of 2003. And, it was the IRS who
sent me a 'bussiness expense statement' a month or so later to complete the return. They had full knowledge as to how much the gross amount was that the Airline recorded that they paid to me as pension. Also, they certainly communicated with CRA at that time. And, both recognized that no taxes were unpaid or evaded by myself.

Why would you be scared? You have no reason to be...unless your just another delusional tax fraud who knows your time is short. So, yet again: PM me your name and mailing address. I won't do a thing with it except report it to the IRS. If your system is so legitimate because you've uncovered a global conspiracy based on admiralty law and slavery, you have nothing to worry about it. If your simply a tax cheat, well thats another story. Are you scared?

Originally Posted by EldonG

How can it be 'tax evasion' (refusing to pay over the fruits of the labour of an owned slave to the slave owner, under the property right) when, income tax only applies to a fictional legal entity/name which does not have a live man (declared legally dead) attached to it as an accessory, making the live man also the property of the owner of the legal name - the corporate Crown of the City of London?

It would be tax evasion because your entire idea of what taxes are is based on mythology, and yet you continue to live in society and enjoy the benefits of those taxes (roads, health insurance if your in canada, fire service, etc.) all while not paying for it because your a freeloader.

Originally Posted by EldonG

Not a US citizen (citizen = slave) , but a green card immigrant to the USA.

Citizen has nothing to do with slave, but I'm glad your not a US citizen. At least we seem to have some standards. If thats the case, then you may indeed not have to pay the IRS under certain circumstances. But these have nothing to do with your conspiracy world view - its just its assumed your paying taxes to your sovereign government.

Originally Posted by EldonG

The legal name, ELDON WARMAN may be a slave of the Crown in right of Canada, but the free will adult man who uses the name as his agent in commerce under private necessity is certainly not a citizen -slave owned by the Crown.

There is no legal name ELDON WARMAN. ELDON WARMAN is you, the entire "legal name/strawman" theory is a mythology. The crown doesn't own any slaves except in your fantasy world.

Originally Posted by EldonG

Eldon Warman/ELDON WARMAN may have to pay taxes, if taxes are owed after deducting basic exemptions from income. However, since ELDON WARMAN is merely an agent, the only income an agent has is the fee for services. And, that fee is determined by private contract between the free will man and the Crown owned legal name. The Crown doesn't set the fee.
As a free will adult man, one is a mind existing within a human body/a vessel.
As an operating system in a computer, a human mind has no substance, nor other physical presence. It is an interaction process of electrons within the physical brain/computer. Thus, a mind cannot be identified by a name. A mind can only have sounds, words and terms that it recognizes through hearing, vision or other senses. That is called an appellation - commonly called term. The legal system of make-believe ships at sea/corporate bodies requires an identifying name.

Witness the complete insanity of FOTL here. I can't do anything but quote and laugh at the ignorance.

I will offer you the same challenge as I have many a debunked Freeman/sovereign freeloader that came before you and failed: All you have to do to prove your points is offer 1 single sustained (ie, not overturned on appeal) case from any level of court in any country that states a person can "decline" paying taxes due to their status as a sovereign citizen and that is their right. Just one. Until you do this, your entire posts are nothing but thousands of words based on unproven delusion.

[quote=uke2se;6303773]Look, it's pretty simple really. Let's break it down. On the one hand we have the "treasury", the money available for the government in their budget. This "treasury" is filled in part by tax money, the rest by interests, revenue from state owned corporations etc.

On the other hand we have you, the tax payer. You pay taxes on your salary and on transactions and on property etc. This money goes into the "treasury".

Money from this "treasury" is used to pay for all the things in the government's budget, including military spending, schools, hospitals, infrastructure, retirement benefits and all other expenses.

The government also loans money from banks to achieve their goals in a budget. This money isn't just "created" by the bank. It is money from their account holders.

So to summarize, the money you pay in taxes is used to fund the government's budget, which includes all the things needed for society to function.

I ask you again, were do you think the money for the budget come from? Also, were do you think the money you pay in taxes go?[quote]

Then, what you are saying is that the corporation called Canada and its incorporate administrative body, called parliament, harvests the labour from owned slaves, called Canadians, and gives it to the banks to lend out at interest, and gives them the credits of the hypothicated slaves to create fiat money that is not a bill of exchange medium. Hmm..