I hope the tournament is a success so the likes of dreamhack might run some events too. Even if it's small scale in some forgotten storage area. Just let lvl^TV cast it with a simple webcam+headset setup and do it old school style )))

Since a lot of people don't seem to understand: Russia IS NOT part of europe, europe IS NOT a country or a nation, europe isn't going to quakecon but the balcanic players are, (with the exception of maybe strenx and killsen all the decent duelers are from Russia etc); also, quake-con isn't about quake, "duel" and this "quake" are abominations and unworthy of the name.

He dominated one version of quake, and this makes him the greatest? You Toxic fanboys are the worst. You're all complete zealots. Toxic dominated q4 because Rapha and Cypher were still green, and because it was an aim based game, similarly to quake champions. In truer quake games like q3 and ql, Toxic was nothing in duel. "The greatest ever", sure.

This "greatest" discussion to me is silly, it's too difficult to really determine and have arguments that satisfy everyone...

But I can't not react to the rest of your post.

Toxic dominated q4 because Rapha and Cypher were still green

I prefer to say nothing to these kinds of "what if" projections. We could say that Rapha only won tournaments because Fatal1ty retired, by the same logic.

In truer quake games like q3 and ql, Toxic was nothing in duel

First of all, there is no "truer quake game", Quake 3 also is my favorite by far, but if you're going to determine the "best quake player" you can't just disregard an entire Quake game because it's not like the other one.

Second, he was never "nothing". Both in Quake 3 and Quake Live, he only came way later into the duel scene, and both time after having only initially focused on TDM.

And in both games he was right behind the best. Right behind. For instance in Quake 3, he came when CZM and Cooller were the two bests. He came strong at QLAN 2, and only lost to them (took a map off czm in a best of 3, and took Cooller to a 5-6 overtime on ZTN).

Then he came to QuakeCon 2004, and again he beat all his opponents (Jibo, Socrates...) but only lost to Czm and Cooller. At ESWC 2005 he even beat Cooller in a best of 5 (!) which almost knocked him out of the tournament (I think it came down to map difference to determine who went out).

That was for Quake 3. In Quake Live, he came in QuakeCon 2011, beat Strenx in the group stage (the eventual finalist of the tournament who was in great form), and then only lost in the quarter finals to Cooller in an incredibly close match (don't know how Tox lost that one).

At DreamHacks he didn't do so well (2011 drew Cypher in the QF, who was in unbeatable mode (he beat Rapha 3-0 in final), though Tox kept the maps were close for the first half of them. 2013 was beat by Evil in 3 very close maps, especially the first two).

And at QuakeCon 2014 I think we all remember how strong Tox was, beating Rapha.

I mean, yeah Tox wasn't dominating the duel in Q3/QL, but he was right behind the very very top.

Tox was essentially either at the very top, or right behind it, for like 15 years. Not to mention he has been pretty much at the top of TDM for the same period. He also won the QuakeCon were you needed to play all 4 Quakes.

To me, he is definitely a serious candidate for "best quake player of all time", although it is impossible to determine who it is without bias.

You on the other hand said a thing not true: Tox tried multiple times to compete in quake live duel tournaments, and always got rekt. While playing he always gave the impression of having no clue of what to do to control the map, opponent and items, and that's why he lost despite his aim being on par with Evil's or just an hair worse.

I may have steted it in a little crude way, and it may give the impression that i don't like Tox, and it's not true, but the point stands.

trying multiple time is not enough. tox actually beat rapha without practicing in quake live which is slow and defensive game....imagine if tox actually played in quake live, he would have dominated it also....rapha stands now chance against tox in quake 4 which is a lot faster faced and require more skills....

It's not that if you pretend he wasnt trying, then he really wasn't. When he attended the event you mentioned for example, he was grinding duel hard for months. And then didn't even manage to reach the finals. §Sur,e he beat Rapha. So did Killsen, and in the actual finals.

Being good in multiple quake editions, or at least the one that requires more skills: q3 or ql. Certainly not q4. And even if we considered q4 on par of q3 and ql, and it's not, the number of tournaments matter, and both Rapha and Cypher have had longer careers at the top.

two greatests in two fields... no i did not...you disrespect their achievements...i have a massive respect for cypher because eventhough quake live is unfair game for his skill sets not fully compensated he excell in that as well...i also respect rapha's intelligent and great achievements in quake live but i know he is not well rounded player if quake becomes more fair, he will be a mediocre player....

You claimed toxic is the greatest quaker ever. Then voo. Now you claim they're greatest in two different fields? Make up your mind. Neither one is the greatest quaker, that title belongs to either Cypher or Rapha, who proved to be more versatile and better in the deepest quake iteration, and thus,, the ones that matters the most.

how is quake live requiring more skill?!? its a too item centric game. battle akill is almost irrelevant in quake live....quake 4 is faster and more balanced game that require more skill sets and has more demensions...

no lol rapha has a great tactical playing but he lacks skills in fast games...his poor skills got only protected in quake live because the game is too slow and item eccentric game that does not compensate player's combat skills...rapha stands no chance in quake 4 or ffa or death match any faster game to toxic and cypher who are all rounds players...

Actually ql is faster than quake champions, given how you have to control much more things at the same time and you can't just press a button to save yourself if you fucked up and things are going too fast.

Which, again, revolves around quake champions and in minor part quake 4 requires less skill than quake live and 3, has toxic has shown countless times losing to about anyone in duel. That's what happens when you've got only aim like Tox.

Cleraly you have troubles understanding a game might require more than lining the crosshair over the opponent. Toxic always had the same problem, too, and it's why in the smarter versions of quake- quake 3 and live, he coul never win or be competitive, while in quake 4 and champions, where it's all random and only aim matters, he's much stronger.

q4 duel for sure required more skills then q3. Higher speed, weaponrespawn 15 on all maps, harder to aim.
cypher (coming from q4): "I was suprised how easy it was to hit in q3".
The only thing q3 (and ql even more) has is requiring more patience/camping.

"That quote of Cypher means nothing, hhow can you not see it? In Shootmania it was harder to hit than in quake 3. Woha."
easier to aim ->less skill required for aiming.
"Quake 3 duel is much deeper than q4's one, that's not debatable."
I think you ment slower here.
"You also don't even know that in q3 weapon respawn was 15 and q4 kept 15 just because it was a copy of q3."
Only on the pro-* maps (and some more obscure ones like ospdm8). hub, ztn, dm13 etc. all had weapon respawn 5.

Don't get me wrong, I love q3 1v1. It may weight the required skill sets in a more tactical direction however to say it requires more skill is simply wrong.

Not really. I have the utmost respect for Voo, his cpm matches alaways fascinated me, and his joke before the final was top notch. But, can you imagine a quake live final with Voo in it? I can't. That's not to say he didn't deserve it, it's just that quake champions is very chaotic and random

Quake champions simply has that skills are less relevant than in previous iterations, it's more aim based, thus less skills based, and that's why Cooller and Rapha have lost to people who couldn't touch them in quake live or 3.

Clawz has skills, but his main strenght is pure aim. Do you remember Clawz winning tourneys in quake live? Me neither.

Geographically, part of Russia lays on the european continent, but nothing of Russia is european, historically and socially. Whoever mistakes Russia as european, (such as 99% of americans) is completely clueless.

That's because so far mostly only quake players know about quake champions so all the pros are mostly pros from the previous quake games, if the game becomes popular and there's tournaments and money there'll be a lot of fresh blood soon.