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Al OPecia on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605&page=2#post-171533
Wed, 03 Apr 2013 08:30:16 +0000Al OPecia171533@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Because nobody will employ you?
</p>Big Ben on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605&page=2#post-171443
Tue, 02 Apr 2013 20:33:33 +0000Big Ben171443@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Ooh you guys... I just love what you've done with the tags, thanks. I particularly like Bell End and am seriously considering changing my pseudonym to that, if it's possible.</p>
<p>But I've been trying not to respond you know, it's just so tempting to just say one more thing.</p>
<p>Like with Blacklesbian's comment, such a home truth there, but it wasn't Bourbon. How else do you think I have the time and attitude for this?
</p>baron la croix on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-171321
Mon, 01 Apr 2013 20:32:51 +0000baron la croix171321@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Been on a holiday and missed this. Thanks for the bump. Has Bourbon broken the record for the longest reply to a sub? Did you shag his wife?
</p>Dickens or Shakespeare on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-171317
Mon, 01 Apr 2013 20:22:05 +0000Dickens or Shakespeare171317@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>I'd say it was 264 words too long.
</p>dvo4fun on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170724
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:31:10 +0000dvo4fun170724@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>b-j! Another one like that and you could be on the way to the naughty step.</p>
<p>And don't give up Ben
</p>beau-jolly on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170721
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 15:26:41 +0000beau-jolly170721@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Haha. DC did have a unique style by insisting on ending every sub with anal sex. </p>
<p>Btw:<br />
<em>"Reading and editing is something I do, and if I do not get blocked I will certainly post less articles..."</em> Can we assume you meant "fewer articles"?
</p>Idiot on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170677
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 10:56:19 +0000Idiot170677@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Is 'fwiw' how they say 'thrill' in Eastenders? Ben, there's some good advice offered here (and some unnecessarily nasty digs), and you'd be wise to follow a good deal of it. On the other hand, be yourself and don't feel you must conform to some 'site style', as it can can get awfully safe and homogenised around here. Bring back Dawson's Creek, that's what I say.
</p>writinginbsl on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170604
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 01:01:17 +0000writinginbsl170604@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>fwiw i do think that ben has some novel ideas which have potential
</p>Big Ben on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170599
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:31:56 +0000Big Ben170599@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>I said I wouldn't respond to this again, but thanks Bourbon. I do care what people think, I just don't take it to heart.</p>
<p>And Nowherefast - Interesting you should mention the PhD, but then I did do the Poo-hD.
</p>Nowherefast on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170596
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:20:40 +0000Nowherefast170596@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Big Ben, you're not by any chance related to Dr Karen J Stevens PhD are you?
</p>Bourbon on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170593
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:14:40 +0000Bourbon170593@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Fair Enough. As I said at the begining, this is why it didn't work for me. A couple of brief points though.</p>
<p>My name is because we have a Custard Cream on here and I believe in racial equality.</p>
<p> I too am dyslexic like you. So i find it odd that as you are yourself dyslexic and not wanting to mud sling, you start a response with "I am sorry to hear of your reading difficulties with ordinary level English", followed by "but hell, that is how shit it is to be dyslexic! And maybe there’s no place for inclusive attitudes on Newsbiscuit". Hopefully you'll see your contridiction there, but I have broad shoulders. The truth is some of it doesn't flow because of how it is written.</p>
<p> There is a big differance between 'the' joke and 'a' joke. In only fools and horses, one of the jokes is that Trigger is a bit thick. But it wouldn't be funny is they just explained that he was a bit thick all the time. They have jokes to emphasis the point. </p>
<p> Whether I know who Carly is or not makes no difference to whether I get the idea behind the sub or not because you don't mention her until the end. I have the same information as anyone else reading the sub until the final paragraph. So the Sandra Bullock referance is still obscure.</p>
<p> You highlight what the point is in a couple of paragraphs, but there's not the information in them for people to make the connection, or get the point you want to make.</p>
<p>I could go on but I won't.</p>
<p> You wanted feedback as to why people aren't giving your stars, and I hae spent time to do that for you, take it or leave it. If you want to get better then this is a great place for it as when criticism is received gracefully people are more likely to be encourage. If, on the other hand, you don't care what people think, don't moan that people ignore you.</p>
<p> Good Night and God bless.</p>
<p>PS Thats Ironic because I am an athiest
</p>Big Ben on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170591
Fri, 29 Mar 2013 00:03:03 +0000Big Ben170591@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>It's great how the Internet lets us say anything to anyone these days, letting the fibs or bitterness flood out, or amuse ourselves however we see fit. So wonderfully dehumanising.</p>
<p>This site has become as much fun as Internet dating.</p>
<p>I particularly like Lucy's nastiness.</p>
<p>Look I'm not going to respond to anymore. This Kylie thing has past its sell by date and it got more takers than I expected for nobody buying.</p>
<p>Thanks for the attention.
</p>Al OPecia on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170558
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:25:23 +0000Al OPecia170558@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Wow. Can I back up my brain now?
</p>Lucy4 on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170557
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:21:01 +0000Lucy4170557@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>I did read a few of your early posts Big but all I got out of it was a groan over the very tortured Grace Darling pun. When you don't supply a laugh to the audience they get fed up and walk out, there's no point waiting forever for you to get funny, particularly when the chances are you never will.
</p>Salmon of Knowledge on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170556
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:20:07 +0000Salmon of Knowledge170556@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Lots of useful advice here. But it's a bit involved, so I thought I should summarise.</p>
<p>'Big Ben, your story is too long, quite boring and not very funny.'
</p>Tripod on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170554
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:15:01 +0000Tripod170554@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>You know who I feel sorry for in all this. Kylie. She's been cloned without her consent, you know...
</p>Big Ben on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170553
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 20:08:13 +0000Big Ben170553@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Dear Bourbon (and all)</p>
<p>Thank you for taking the time to respond with such a long post, that many clearly agree with. I have learned some useful lessons from this.</p>
<p>With a pseudonym like Bourbon I guess you are to be considered The Biscuit round here, possibly even the editor in disguise. So I’m not going to win any argument, nor see the sense in any mud-slinging, however I would like to take this opportunity to share some observations while responding to all your points.</p>
<p>I am sorry to hear of your reading difficulties with ordinary level English, but I rather think that is what comes of investing in S level ‘Precision English’ it affords little if any tolerance. This may also have blinded you somewhat to the subjective breadth of what counts as humour by others. Though I do appreciate the focus here for Newsbiscuit has to be the FP style, for the intended readership, which I’m still trying to grasp.</p>
<p>The comma in para 1 is not rogue in my mind. I use commas to provide pause for emphasis as I did with ‘already in the media’. (The humour there, only for some it seems, is that ‘media’ would connect with the process of cloning.) Your point does encourages me to question my use of commas. Maybe inferences should be self-evident by choice of word alone. I guess I’m writing the way I speak, not the way people wish to read.</p>
<p>While I do agree that a poor start kills what follows, I do actually read all my drafts out loud and edit them a number of times before posting. Sorry if I’m not acceptably critical yet.</p>
<p>The humour in para 2 is in questioning the vetting of staff.</p>
<p>Para 3 presents the idea that a scientist could be so caught up in their achievement, that they would excitedly plead guilty.</p>
<p>I agree that considering the number of times I read this out aloud, and edited it, I still managed to miss the capital B which Sandra deserves. But hell, that is how shit it is to be dyslexic! And maybe there’s no place for inclusive attitudes on Newsbiscuit.</p>
<p>When I got half way through your post I understood why you didn’t get the Sandra Bullock reference, because you hadn’t a clue about Carly Rae Jepsen and what she looks like, having to check the web. This article then fails as it becomes obscure to those readers who maybe do not follow popular music.</p>
<p>I did not neglect to infer that the egg came from Sandra Bullock “This means that with the egg they stole from me I’m just as much cloned as Kylie”. If everything has to be spelled out to readers then it becomes boring and predictable, losing opportunity for tension. Certainly it is a very bad sign if jokes need any explaining, as I am doing now.</p>
<p>We clearly have different definitions of Irony, and humour more broadly, because your comma fetish example is too weak to raise a smile from me.</p>
<p>Thanks for the heads up with how to start a quote, I never knew that.</p>
<p>Why on Earth would I have explained the cloning resulted in Carly Rae Jepsen at the beginning, that’s where the story was headed, apart from apparently down the pan. That’s like advising someone to always give the punch-line first. No I don’t agree.</p>
<p>The ‘jokes’ in the final para are the similarity between the music of Carly and Kylie confusing those who would sing along, and this being seen as a great success by the scientists, plus the final comment that they are looking forward to seeing the gold hot-pants back again. Sorry if that is too low brow for the ‘team’, or rather ‘group’ which I have seen are often throwing non-constructive criticisms at one another.</p>
<p>It would seem to me that what you might have going on with this site is using very high standards mixed with contradictions to confuse and discourage newbies from writing, so that those who remain get a greater chance of getting on the FP. Well it would seem that the editor, possibly you, makes a personal choice anyway, as I have seen some unclear connections between scoring and FPing.</p>
<p>1) I will look to improve my grammar, bearing in mind that you cannot easily change what you don’t see, just as I expect your attitude not to change from my above comments.</p>
<p>2) Yes I will try listening to the rhythm of my words. I admit I haven’t considered doing that. This is probably the most valuable thing I take from this experience.</p>
<p>3) While it may not look like it, structure is very important to me.</p>
<p>4) Reading and editing is something I do, and if I do not get blocked I will certainly post less articles now and be hyper critical, in an attempt to fit the approved site attitude, up until my amusement wanes of course.</p>
<p>5) Yeah.</p>
<p>6) I know this.</p>
<p>While my response might sound bitter in places, there are points taken, relevant to me beyond this site.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, I anticipate that my serious response may receive unintended laughs from the group, beyond that of any of my submissions, as a derisory kick up the arse for actually being this shit.</p>
<p>I’ll think on.</p>
<p>Big Ben</p>
<p>PS a big thank you to Lucy for confirming my suspicions about my pseudonym being understood to mean 'Skip this'.
</p>Lucy4 on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170552
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:48:31 +0000Lucy4170552@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Finally got round to reading this. That's Bourbon's essay; I gave up on the sub after reading it was by Big Ben. A fine and instructive piece.<br />
Big Ben's had a great deal of very good and friendly advice from quite a few on here, I wouldn't and didn't bother, I hope Ben is big enough to thank you all.
</p>Paddy Berzinski on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170544
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 19:07:38 +0000Paddy Berzinski170544@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>The sub didn't really do a great deal for me. It was so-so, and I sort of got the point. The critique by Bourbon was quite informative and very constructive. Sometimes here it's difficult to work out what will work and what won't. I hope Big Ben takes the comments in the manner in which they were intended. Bourbon's comments helped me to gain a better understanding of the mechanics of the site. Thanks Bourbon. And have some stars and don't give up Big Ben.
</p>Bourbon on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170505
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:30:50 +0000Bourbon170505@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>And there's plenty more! But I wasn't putting the comment up to be critiqued. If I had, I would have written it in a word processor and run a spell check instead of writing straight into the comment box. I would have also re-read it three times to check for errors. Good to see someone paying attention though!
</p>beau-jolly on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170504
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 15:18:55 +0000beau-jolly170504@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p><blockquote>The first paragraph reads really badly. <strong>i</strong>t's one long cumbersome <strong>sentance</strong> with a rogue comma for good measure. Reading back to yourself, out loud before posting would have shown you that. <strong>t</strong>he whole <strong>sentance</strong>needs rephrasing and shortening. A poor start to a sub like this give the reader no confidence that it is worth reading on.</blockquote><br />
I got this far and was going to give up but glad I persevered. I now assume these early errors were ironic.<br />
I read it because the sub had 5 stars and lots of comments so you got me there! Good critisism. Pleased that no-one has expected a good critic to also be a good writer. (Said with love)
</p>Midfield Diamond on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170465
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 11:45:48 +0000Midfield Diamond170465@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Excellent advice for all of us. The only thing I'd add is that if you're here purely to try to massage your own ego by attracting the approval of others, you're in the wrong place. If on the other hand you enjoy writing stuff that you find funny, stick around and work at it. If no-one else thinks your stuff's amusing, just shrug and try again, don't take it as a personal insult or moan about the audience.
</p>Dick Everyman on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170421
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 07:45:34 +0000Dick Everyman170421@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>I had one of those Bourbon three packs with my coffee at a conference yesterday. It had a delicious beginning, an amusing middle and a satisying end, unlike the crappy speech the key note speaker delivered. </p>
<p>A lesson I think to us all to appreciate and take notice of our Bourbons.
</p>Not Amused on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170418
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 01:49:38 +0000Not Amused170418@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Well explained Bourbon.<br />
I am not good enough to start explaining what you have but you have explained it clearly. Whether BB is real or not (and I prefer to think he is) this is good advice to every new subber on here.<br />
BB, listen to Bourbon's advice and learn from it. You often have a good joke but take a long long time getting there. </p>
<p>5* for bourbon for putting it so well
</p>fink on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170417
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 01:29:31 +0000fink170417@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Other people have tried to give this guy helpful feedback and been ignored.</p>
<p>Sadly, I think "Big Ben" might be an old hand around here, who's posting deliberately bad stories just to wind people up, possibly because he's angry that his stuff didn't get used much and now wants to spoil the site. He's probably a few other of the "surprisingly poor" posters.</p>
<p>As someone pointed out recently, this is why a lot of the good writers have left.</p>
<p>Apologies if you really are genuinely this bad, BB, but I don't believe you can be.
</p>Ironduke on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170416
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:45:59 +0000Ironduke170416@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>I've learned from Bourbie-babies section there; nice stuff.
</p>Bourbon on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170410
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:20:29 +0000Bourbon170410@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>The 5 stars were from me to me by the way. also hoping it makes you look at it, which if you're reading this then you are.
</p>dvo4fun on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170401
Thu, 28 Mar 2013 00:04:46 +0000dvo4fun170401@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>Blimey Bourbon. Above &amp; beyond the call. I'd say pretty nearly flounce-proof feedback too. So impressed that I had to push off and find where I'd stashed my password; just so I could log-in &amp; tell you. Right, must be off.
</p>charlies_hat on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170400
Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:55:14 +0000charlies_hat170400@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>We should all read and take notes here.
</p>Bourbon on "Kylie Cloned Without Her Consent"http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/topic.php?id=58605#post-170398
Wed, 27 Mar 2013 23:46:06 +0000Bourbon170398@http://newsbiscuit.com/forum/<p>ok, I will attempt to tell you why this is not working for me.</p>
<p>The first paragraph reads really badly. it's one long cumbersome sentance with a rogue comma for good measure. Reading back to yourself, out loud before posting would have shown you that. the whole sentance needs rephrasing and shortening. A poor start to a sub like this give the reader no confidence that it is worth reading on.</p>
<p>The second paragraph is again unnecessarily wordy. Again, a quick read before posting should highlight this. I also had to re-read after the comma because of the phrasing. so in two paragraphs you have explained the premise to the story, but as yet no jokes, or funny lines. For a comedy site most people will have stopped reading, but I shall continue.</p>
<p>The third paragraph. Not sure if you think we are paid per comma but we aren't. the first one is not needed. The explanation needs to be simpler. Again it takes a bit of another run up to tackle it and try and see the logic. As a general point, you do not need a capital letter at the beginning of the quotes unless it is at the beginning of a sentence, although I may be corrected by someone with better grammatical skills than me.<br />
This whole paragraph again tries to explain the story but there are no actual jokes or funny lines. That's over half of your word count you have expected your reader to wade through without making them laugh. nobody would have gone further, but I'll take one for the team.</p>
<p> The forth paragraph. I'll repeat the comment about the capital letter at the beginning of the quote but one at the beginning of Bullock would only be polite. The Sandra Bullock reference is one I don't get in the context of the story. It ruins the narrative. You spent 4 lines explaining something about male and female DNA, but neglected to mention that the egg came from Sandra Bullock, which if that is what you are saying, is a much bigger story. The introduction of Sandra Bullock is a little obscure and adds nothing to the story so I would lose it. Again, we have got to the end of the forth paragraph and still no jokes, are you seeing a pattern here. So far you have just told a weird story, but not funny. I'll start on the next paragraph after I have had a sip of my coffee, which is like suicide for a biscuit.</p>
<p> The fifth paragraph. I always dread reading someone call something ironic because they usually go on to describe something that is not ironic, as you have done here. An example of irony would be someone with a comma fetish putting 3 in a sentence where they are not needed but failing to put one where it is, after the word irony. Again reading it would have helped you see that it has no rhythm. Also we on are approaching the end and still no jokes or funny line, just further explanation. </p>
<p>The sixth and final paragraph. Capital letters at the beginning of quotes again. Before I continue I will say I had to google Carly Rea Jepson, meaning the whole thing would be lost on me anyway. So you have waited to the very end to explain something that should have been done at the beginning, the similarities between Kylie and Carly with a dash of Sandra. From a story telling point of view, you have let the most important detail until the end. We have had to read 5 paragraphs of explanation to get to 'the joke'. However again there are no jokes.</p>
<p>So there you have it Big Ben. That may go some way to explain why people are not giving you any stars. It's because people are not getting past the first couple of sentences. What you have done here is written a whole sub based on an observation that doesn't flow, isn't particularly funny, has no jokes and left the important detail until the very end when what you should have done is say 'isn't Carly like Kylie'. So here are some pointers as a summary.</p>
<p>1)Sort your grammar out. Write your piece in a word processor that will show you any glaring mistakes. </p>
<p>2)Read it out loud to check for rhythm. it should flow naturally when read. If people have to stumble through it and re-read whole sentences then they won't bother reading it at all.</p>
<p>3)Having an amusing idea doesn't mean it will work as a sub. you need to think about the story. It needs to have a beginning (the premise), a middle (what happens, what are the twist, when and how do things go wrong, what do people say in favour and against) and an end (what was the conclusion, how was it resolved. Don't leave the story hanging).</p>
<p>4) Never post your first draft. Keep editing it until you are sure there is nothing else you can cut, no more jokes to be had, and it is a pleasurable read. It's better to sub one amazing piece than 20 half baked ideas.</p>
<p>And as this is a comedy site...</p>
<p>5)Have some jokes in it. The minimum for me would be a funny line that makes people smile at the very least at the end of every paragraph, preferably more. You also need to get the first laugh in early so people trust your writing. They will then relax and go along with you and may even forgive a random Sandra Bullock reference. </p>
<p>6) Your final line should be the funniest in the whole piece. Your punchline is the bit people will remember. Get it right and people will forget the bits they didn't like, get it wrong and they will only remember the bits they didn't like</p>
<p>I hope that helps
</p>