02:00:10gribble:ReutersEmily was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 9 hours, 58 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <ReutersEmily> same album as Mistadobalina also features a wonderful song called "What Is A Booty"

04:13:54KRS-One:Word is that if serious sanctions are imposed the Russian economy could crash. Jeez we need to work toward global economic growth and this isnt going to help. Hope at least it will save lives.

04:15:14chetty:Its a global economy, all these guys are tied together, one economy doesn't go down alone

07:04:01cryptoflood:Hey guys, Never really have chat here before just lurked, but I've been learning the ropes for a while now. Lost my last identity due to learning ignorance. Trying to build my WOT rating back up.

10:11:39dnivi3:Seems like I jumped on the train a bit too early thinking that the price would rise (which it did for a little while). I am dumping my shares, can't justify the investment with regards to their shitty dividen.

10:39:51VanCleef:In an echo of the Cold War, MasterCard and Visa have stopped processing payments by some Russian banks after the United States issued sanctions over Russia's recent annexation of Crimea.

14:27:54mircea_popescu:In response to the argument that Title III provides no explicit provision for disclosures under the present facts, the court noted that "[Title III] does not prohibit all that it does not permit".

16:29:34Ghaleon:i have a feeling that carl jung's archetypal mode.. a consdesnded version will give the right person a keen edge going forward

16:30:36mircea_popescu:"Gilliams received $4 million from Morfopoulous and $1 million from another investor for investment in the STRIPS program. As evidence that the funds were so invested, Gilliams created ?a screenshot from Bloomberg Finance showing $1 million worth of U.S. Treasury STRIPS, which Gilliams represented was proof that he had purchased Treasury STRIPS.? A screenshot? He must have been in the virtual office that day. A

16:30:36mircea_popescu:screen shot is not a confirmation. And nobody investing foundation funds should think it is."

16:31:11mircea_popescu:" He also ?generated a document, which he supplied to a representative of the investors, in which he purported to show a series of $5 million trades, as well as over $100,000 in purported profits on trades during September and October 2010, [but] this document was false.? Anyone can generate a professional looking document on their computer."

16:31:23mircea_popescu:Gilliams lives an extravagant lifestyle, much of which is depicted in videos filmed by videographers he hired to follow him around. The videos appear on ?TLG TV,? which purports to be some sort of reality TV show starring him. A host of such videos still remain on YouTube, although some were deleted from Vimeo. One such video apparently depicted Gillaims ?posing with stacks of money on his lap.?

16:31:30mircea_popescu:apparently they didn't have lambos in fiat yet.

16:32:06mircea_popescu:(for the rap fans among us : this is some friend of p. diddy's)

17:08:35benkay:re chetty's zerohedge sanction link "Carney...said. 'I wouldn't, if I were you, invest in Russian equities right now, unless you're going short.'". << is this the great mechanisms of war ratcheting one step further? is the US seriously biting off an economic war with Russia?

17:13:38chetty:benkay, it sure looks like an economic war is a brewing. It will crash the whole world economy if they keep it up

17:14:58asciilifeform:'for many years, most artificial neural network research was focused on networks with a single layer of processing.' wat. !111?111!

17:40:06asciilifeform:('the bad dancer is hindered by his arse.' kudos to the kid)

17:42:00decimation:I was speaking to a greybeard EE last night. He lamented that most compE kids coming out of school want to put a high-end media CPU on embedded projects so they can run java or something stupid

17:42:15decimation:thus making most of the cost of the development for these things go to firmware

17:42:39asciilifeform:this wouldn't even be such a problem if it actually worked

17:46:07mircea_popescu:bounce the thing is, evolution algo looks for fine little hairs on things. bad rng adds hairs of its own. it's as if you'd be having two species fighting it out. often enough the one you're interested in gets overwhelmed

17:46:22asciilifeform:(ianal, but if i recall, it's not actually illegal, but was ruled 'probable cause' for police search)

17:46:53mircea_popescu:asciilifeform nn, "expert systems" and other prime snake oil has long been the substance used to maks government graft.

17:47:46asciilifeform:this is a well-known fact. the 'ai winters' were merely the flip sides of 'ai summers', bacchanalia of graft of every variety

17:49:57mircea_popescu:decimation asciilifeform also point out that even a broom shoots once.

17:50:06mircea_popescu:sure they work. not for everything all the time.

17:50:20bounce:"hairs of its own"... well, that sort-of works. my understanding was more along the lines of bad RNGs have higher risk of getting stuck in local minima, but anyway. nothing like having and obscure joke get dissected to death.

17:51:02decimation:" According to a press release from the Semiconductor Industry Association (SIA), until 2008, the CBP would snap pictures of the trademarks and other info on suspected counterfeit chips and send the images to semiconductor firms for verification. That stopped with when the Department of Homeland Security implemented a new security policy."

17:51:22decimation:Because actually inspecting things would violate the rights of the grey-market importers

17:51:26asciilifeform:decimation: did you see the recent incident with Fluke Corp. ?

18:01:39decimation:Even in electrical and electronic engineering?an occupation that is right at the heart of high-tech innovation but that also has been heavily outsourced abroad?U.S. employment in 2013 declined to about 300,000, down 35,000 and over 10 percent, from 2012, and down from about 385,000 in 2002. Unemployment rates for electrical engineers rose to a surprisingly high 4.8 percent in 2013.

18:13:46decimation:from the article: Surprisingly, some of the largest and most heavily financed scientific fields, such as biomedical research, are among those with the least attractive career prospects, as a recent blue-ribbon advisory committee reported to the Director of the National Institutes of Health. "

18:13:55mircea_popescu:i dun believe much in this masturbatory pain thing

18:16:09benkay:"great!" i said to the desk operator responsible for scheduling things while I seethed internally.

18:17:25asciilifeform:'The first round of layoffs had started. Salaries were frozen. Requests for new laptop computers were being denied. Meanwhile, Handler had an enormous marble archway installed in the atrium of the Carter Ink Building. When a national supercomputer conference was held in Seattle, she decided to stay in San Francisco and commute to Seattle from the swank Stanford Court Hotel. She commissioned a $40,000 logo desig

18:17:25asciilifeform:n for a CM-5 sweatshirt and then rejected it. While the company was sinking, she focused her attention on putting out a cookbook with recipes from the company's now-infamous cafeteria. Increasingly paranoid, she had a video camera aimed at her personal parking spot and, by some accounts, made people take meetings with her in her parked car. She hired a bodyguard, telling her colleagues that she had received dea

18:17:25asciilifeform:th threats. Some members of Thinking Machines' board suddenly seemed to realize that the person who had been running the company all those years had no business skills. The board discussed dumping Handler, but she managed to get her biggest enemies there kicked off.'

19:12:21mircea_popescu:"Yeah I am just messing with your minds and have no actual technical ability. But maybe someone does who is reading my points and maybe they will do something. I am hoping. You see I don't really care how we get the solution, as long as we get one. I am not the young productive programmer that I once was with two good eyes (not very productive since losing one eye and acquiring an apparently progressive, incurable peri

19:12:21mircea_popescu:pheral neuropathy auto-immune condition caused by an incurable STD which is also morphing into neuropathy every where not just peripheral and causes me chronic fatigue syndrome which causes frequent deliriousness+pain which makes it easier for me to write in a forum than to do the more intellectually sharp+focused work of actual programming... I only get opportunities to program depending on my body maybe every few day

19:42:40mircea_popescu:i've had it up to here with in-their-mind slick fucks trying to turn bitcoin into some sort of corporate sales management device.

19:42:54mircea_popescu:not that they're hard to crush individually, but there's a fucking pipe of them.

19:45:08mircea_popescu:Part of the answer may be that young people fail to appreciate the risk that they will become more like old people when they are old. The young person sees the old tenured academic, ignored by his younger colleagues in a culture that values hot new ideas, sign up to be on committees. The youngster never asks "This oldster has tenure. He draws the same salary regardless of whether he sits through those interminable bori

19:45:08mircea_popescu:ng committee meetings. Why would he agree to do it? Why wouldn't he rather be playing squash, riding a horse, flying an aircraft, walking his dog, etc.?" The distressing possibility that the oldster agreed to be on the committee so that he would have a venue in which people would listen to him does not occur to the youngster.

20:14:16decimation:yeah it's obvious to me that a good secretary is extremely valuable

20:15:04decimation:the fact that she might spider through electronic rather than physical files changes nothing

20:16:17mircea_popescu:you can write a good secretary for bash or perl if your records are digital.

20:16:30mircea_popescu:analog dusted old binders are as of yet an unsolved problem

20:18:19ninjashogun:the main reason is that when it takes a minute or to do something, you take more time with it. Same if thre's a physical good. It's why moleskine notebooks contain better diagrams and sketches than legal pads do.

20:31:27decimation:the question is: who is getting the unearned income and for what reasons?

20:32:37asciilifeform:always neglected is the question of wtf means 'earned.' i.e. the fellow who faithfully sits through traffic and warms a chair for 8hr/day moving paper from one pile to another, in the popular imagination, 'earns' something.

20:39:43ninjashogun:For example, it is doubtless true that people who use condoms will have sex in some situations (with unknown partners they're not really sure of) that they wouldn't otherwise.

20:39:52ninjashogun:But I don't think the Risk Compensation argument is effective against condom use.

20:40:27ninjashogun:(I mean, for example, in theory you can do a deep check on all of your partners and KNOW they have no STD's and also don't sleep with anyone else othre than you. Condom use lets you have some protection in cases where this isn't done.)

20:42:29decimation:ninjashogun are you saying that if the enemy possesses your cardano, then it is suspect?

20:42:35ninjashogun:he said that the only thing is that it's a bad, cheap laptoop

20:43:31ninjashogun:decimation, so this relates to an architectural discussion I had with asciilifeform on it. Specifically, a very GOOD reason not to include ANY second factor, not even the most trivial one (such as not writing your name and bitcoin address on the Cardano) is because any second factor will INCREASE the risky behavior in its users.

20:46:32decimation:well, then how does checking for std's map to this?

20:46:43ninjashogun:decimation, the example is actually not about integrity. :)

20:47:24ninjashogun:decimation, i.e. if it has been in adversary's hands, the result is obviously 0% integrity. What else is the result? I identified a couple of results to asciilifeform (including threat verctor back to PC should it be replaced without the Owner's knowledge)

20:48:03asciilifeform:let's say that you own a pistol. it gets stolen and replaced without your knowledge for one that: shoots backwards.

20:48:04mircea_popescu:std's are a very narrowly restricted set of problems

20:48:17ninjashogun:Both map to STD's. Both reducing the threat vector back to the PC, and reducing the immediate loss without any effort on the part of the enemy, will increase risky behavior.

20:48:25asciilifeform:before you laugh, the americans actually did this to the vietnamese on a few occasions

20:49:43ninjashogun:asciilifeform - let's change the approach slightly. Suppose that the "risk compensation effect" were 500x, and the SLIGHTEST reduction in risk will be compensated 500x by risky behavior.

20:49:50decimation:nevertheless, I fail to see how this is the ammo manufacturer's problem

20:50:39ninjashogun:asciilifeform, in this hypothesis, clearly it would make the Cardano MUCH safer to physically print the private key on it (ascii-padded) on a piece of paper that is folded a single time and taped to the Cardano. If users MUST do this or there is no way to do this, they will treat the Cardano much more safely.

20:52:05ninjashogun:asciilifeform, so, how do we determine the difference between Steering Wheel Spike - print the private key on the Cardano for anyone to see - and genuinely sound decisions added for gravity?

20:52:09benkay:or are you proposing abandoning the fry operation, ninjashogun?

20:54:11ninjashogun:benkay, not so. This is asciilifeform's current argument for refusing to add any fallout mitigation for stolen Cardano's (including use of a passphrase that gets discarded after a while and memory cycled.).

20:54:18asciilifeform:in my earlier conversation with ninjashogun, i tried to explain the concept of only solving technical problems that can be solved -well-.

20:54:41benkay:don't you understand the importance of capturing markets with shoddy products asciilifeform?!

20:54:53ninjashogun:So under the current Cardano architecture, there is 0 mitigation for even accidental loss, or theft. There is no pass phrase that is possible without rewriting the firmware yourself.

21:02:10ninjashogun:(asciilifeform had an example of how soviet submarines did not self-regulate their nuclear reactors but always had a person in the loop, who therefore understood the gravity of his situatoin.)

21:03:13ninjashogun:So, if we know, for sure, that in some cases Cardanos will be lost or stolen - is it possible that an architectural change MAY make the Cardano more secure oerall by reducing the immediate fallout from these cases?

21:04:17decimation:can you propose such a technology? a spike in the steering wheel is not such a precaution.

21:04:22asciilifeform:ninjashogun: i am sad to say that you appear to have learned nothing from our conversation.

21:06:53ninjashogun:asciilifeform, I did learn from it, yes. Clearly Risk Compensation is not a law :) :) It is possible to mitigate fallout in some ways without automatically getting an exact compensation.

21:08:18decimation:it's also obvious that any precautions taken could be bypassed, and thus are worse than features

21:08:25ninjashogun:asciilifeform, for example if you introduced an architectural change that, as a direct result, meant half of thefts did not result in key becoming accessible to thief - would there be instantly twice as many thefts as a result?

21:08:55ninjashogun:asciilifeform, if only one tenth of thefts actually resulted in the key becoming known to the thief - would there be exactly ten times as many thefts as a result?

21:09:52decimation:he's a high-functioning troll, as best as anyone can gather

21:09:58ninjashogun:Apocalyptic, I am trying to understand the architectural trade-offs in the Cardano, and, specifically, why the private key MUST be stored in the plain with no mitigation against loss. (Except key revocation, if the user is aware of it). Why it has to be "fail-dangerous" and not "fail-90% dangeorus"

21:10:04asciilifeform:decimation: that's the most charitable explanation.

21:17:34ninjashogun:decimation, as I mentioned before we are at the pre-financing stage - the startup is not raising money right now. I know a lot of stories of people who built great things with burn rates near $0. Airbnb is now closing a round at $10B. They sold cereal to launch.

21:17:59Mats_cd03:your knowledge of how other startups work is impressive

21:29:43ninjashogun:It's the difference between "How can I help you get from a $500K nominal valuation - your last round - to $10M" and "Wait, you're not taking a salary? Why don't you just go on welfare?" -- this channel above :)

21:29:52dub:I know someone that implemented IPoW(et)S(tring) at university

22:07:56ninjashogun:mircea_popescu, madoff chose a return that was set not to be "too good to be true" while working more on giving the appearance of very low baked-in risk. He did not give out returns that made anyone wealthy - he was just very consistent about it.

23:19:10mircea_popescu:"The sooner this community gets rid of these stains/schemes currently tainting the innovative and revolutionary world of bitcoin which they are piggybacking, the sooner we will make progress."

23:40:15hdbuck:mircea_popescu, could you please enlighten me regarding what is actually going to happen in bitcoinland? i mean, all that junk going on with the BTCFoundation, the heists, the banks, the whole damn world? what to expect if not some shitstorm lies and persecutions?

23:53:07diametric:there is a surprisingly amount of people that really dislike mircea_popescu. I've encountered a few that proclaim he's a scammer, but when questioned on what scam specifically they fail to give details.

23:53:27diametric:and by association they've linked this channel to scammers

23:53:33cazalla:I'm your average person, can't keep up with some of the conversation here, need to go and google words for definitions and so forth but I'm here (got started in Bitcoin nov 2012) so I would expect others who are average to start turning up as I have

23:53:35mircea_popescu:the convenient explanation being that they're exposed scammers/shills with a bone for pr.

23:58:52hdbuck:im really trying to grasp what happened with the massive PUT orders in early feb. MP's feb report mentioned his ability to stand for the sake of bitcoin, and being well connected, etc... But who was on the other side? Why such orders in bulk at this given period? :/