Too bad we didn't land Mike Leach back in 2012, instead of CJ. Who knows where we'd be now. Regardless, a great 2 minute clip where he calls out the FBS for their ludicrous playoff system, saying how every level from high school to the NFL can get it right, except FBS.

This argument could continue ad infinitum. Why is a 'real' playoff so unattainable? Money. Power. Reluctance to relinquish existing positions by bowls and organizatios. The only way to establish a 'real' playoff is to give the existing institutions more of what they already have. I don't see how that can happen.

When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

I was excited about the news that we would have a 4 team CFP. Why? Because I thought it would be much different. I thought they would select top 3 teams in the final CFP poll, and give the #4 seed to the best G5 team in the poll. I think this would have been more satisfying to football fans.

The CFP is nothing more than a 4 team BCS system selection system. Something has to change.

" Lee looked good today, Montana looked good, Powell did some good things, Jordy looked great! Having all of these QB's who can all make plays is a great problem to have!" ( Former Head Coach Curtis Johnson)

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

That's a self-licking ice cream cone, because any team that wins two games against "top four" teams to end the season will look like the best team, particularly compared to the #5-8 teams who are sitting home. Meanwhile teams from the bottom half of the top ten beat teams from the top half of the top ten all the time during the regular season, which is why it is so fluid throughout the season. If the regular season was two weeks longer you might have 2-3 different teams in there. The whole thing is ridiculously arbitrary, and then when the music stops of course the winner is going to look like the winner. They just won two games against the only teams you said were good enough to play them.

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

If the best team in country always wins, why bother with a playoff at all? The whole point of it is giving everyone a shot. You only need to go back to 2016 baseball and Coastal Carolina. Its all about having a legit opportunity, regardless of what conference you play in. In FCS and lower, and in NFL, if you win your division/conference, you have a shot at the title. ONLY in FBS is that not true.

FCS uses 24 teams. Top 8 seeds get a bye, then 4 weeks trim sixteen to one. It can be done. For one, cut the number of regular season games back to 11 instead of 12. There's one week right there. Give each of the ten conference champs a spot, which leaves 14 other teams. Even if all 14 were current P5s, at least you feel like you have a legit chance. A school like Tulane, for example, could win the AAC, and even if they aren't top 8, they'd have to win five games to win the title. Given the competition you'd play in those games, no one could say they didn't deserve it if they did win those five.

What it all comes down to is the P5s trying to control everything to continue the fake narrative that they're better than the rest. Did anyone notice that right now, a 3-2 Tulane team is rated higher in the Massey Composite than TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of the P5 schools? Yes, we're higher than 16 of the 64 P5s.

RobertM320 wrote:FCS uses 24 teams. Top 8 seeds get a bye, then 4 weeks trim sixteen to one. It can be done. For one, cut the number of regular season games back to 11 instead of 12. There's one week right there. Give each of the ten conference champs a spot, which leaves 14 other teams. Even if all 14 were current P5s, at least you feel like you have a legit chance. A school like Tulane, for example, could win the AAC, and even if they aren't top 8, they'd have to win five games to win the title. Given the competition you'd play in those games, no one could say they didn't deserve it if they did win those five.

What it all comes down to is the P5s trying to control everything to continue the fake narrative that they're better than the rest. Did anyone notice that right now, a 3-2 Tulane team is rated higher in the Massey Composite than TWENTY FIVE PERCENT of the P5 schools? Yes, we're higher than 16 of the 64 P5s.

Yeah the playoff in its current structure pushes G5 teams further out than BCS and a 4 team expansion would further diminish the relevance of G5 by pushing them even further out.

For example, would an undefeated UCF, USF, Navy, or SDSU finish in the top 10 in the regular season without seismic collapses in the P5? A lot of P5 schedules are just starting to get more difficult while most G5 schedules are getting weaker.

For another example, would a one loss UCF, USF, Navy, and SDSU finish in the top 10?

Or even, if the playoff expanded to 16, would a 1 loss G5 team end up in the top 16 in the regular season?

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

How in the world could we prove that a better team was in fact left out? Hell in 2014 the final AP and coaches polls both ranked TCU ahead of two teams that made the playoff.

For NCAA FBS, eight teams is the right number. The schools want to maximize regular season to make money and the games are too physical for the FCS structure. If a team gets left off of the 8 team race then there really can;t be much of a complaint. The P5's would each get a team, the G5 would get at least one spot and two wild cards would remain. It seems so simple that even the NCAA could not screw it up.

Last edited by mbawavefan12 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

How in the world could we prove that a better team was in fact left out? Hell in 2014 the AP and coaches poll both ranked TCU ahead of two teams that made the playoff.

For NCAA FBS, eight teams is the right number. The schools want to maximize regular season to make money and the games are too physical for the FCS structure. If a team gets left off of the 8 team race then there really can;t be much of a complaint. The P5's would each get a team, the G5 would get at least one spot and two wild cards would remain. It seems so simple that even the NCAA could not screw it up.

There is virtually no way that the CFP would expand to 8 and guarantee a spot to the G5, as there is no reason to and they would, in theory, lose revenue by giving a spot to a team with a smaller fan base.

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

How in the world could we prove that a better team was in fact left out? Hell in 2014 the AP and coaches poll both ranked TCU ahead of two teams that made the playoff.

For NCAA FBS, eight teams is the right number. The schools want to maximize regular season to make money and the games are too physical for the FCS structure. If a team gets left off of the 8 team race then there really can;t be much of a complaint. The P5's would each get a team, the G5 would get at least one spot and two wild cards would remain. It seems so simple that even the NCAA could not screw it up.

There is virtually no way that the CFP would expand to 8 and guarantee a spot to the G5, as there is no reason to and they would, in theory, lose revenue by giving a spot to a team with a smaller fan base.

I think they might just to keep the 60+ non-P5's from stirring up problems. I mean they give the G5 a spot in the New Years bowls, it's not a huge stretch that they would allow them in the playoffs.

Leach is a national treasure. Could listen to his press conferences all day long.

leach is the best coach in college football. He took washington state, who had not one 1 game in 2 years before he got there. Even us at our worst won more than that.....they literally were so bad they were winless for multiple years when he arrived. And 5 years later they are ranked top 10 in the country and just beat the Sh** out of USC and oregon....all while being in BFE eastern washington where their are no recruits to get within 1000 miles from campus. Flat out amazing. Just think what he could do with real talent.

anEngineer wrote:When someone can show me a case where the best team in the country was not included in the 4-team playoff, I will reconsider. When high schools start travelling across the country for playoffs and conducting week-long media sessions, they can be compared to the NCAA. For the NFL, it's a profession. Mike Leach is an attention-grabbing blowhard. Even though that wasn't the choice at the time, I'd much rather have Fritz as HC.

How in the world could we prove that a better team was in fact left out? Hell in 2014 the AP and coaches poll both ranked TCU ahead of two teams that made the playoff.

For NCAA FBS, eight teams is the right number. The schools want to maximize regular season to make money and the games are too physical for the FCS structure. If a team gets left off of the 8 team race then there really can;t be much of a complaint. The P5's would each get a team, the G5 would get at least one spot and two wild cards would remain. It seems so simple that even the NCAA could not screw it up.

There is virtually no way that the CFP would expand to 8 and guarantee a spot to the G5, as there is no reason to and they would, in theory, lose revenue by giving a spot to a team with a smaller fan base.

I think they might just to keep the 60+ non-P5's from stirring up problems. I mean they give the G5 a spot in the New Years bowls, it's not a huge stretch that they would allow them in the playoffs.

Leach is a national treasure. Could listen to his press conferences all day long.

I would like to believe that, but if the G5 is quiet in the current environment (playoff with no G5), it seems unlikely that an expansion of that same environment would make a difference.

Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

RobertM320 wrote:Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

16 would be an absolute minimum for the G5 in general, let alone the AAC, to have a realistic shot, and, even then, the team would need to be undefeated or have at most one loss.

G5 teams in the top 16 of the final CFP Poll by year:2014 - None - Highest rated was 11-2 Boise State at 202015 - None - Highest rated was 12-1 Houston at 182016 - 13-0 WMU at 15

The above is why even 16 would not be enough. In order to ensure that the G5 is included in the playoff, it would need to be expanded to 22-25 (which would be obscene).

EDIT: Clarity.

Last edited by Aberzombie1892 on Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RollWaveRoll wrote:leach is the best coach in college football. He took washington state, who had not one 1 game in 2 years before he got there. Even us at our worst won more than that.....they literally were so bad they were winless for multiple years when he arrived. And 5 years later they are ranked top 10 in the country and just beat the Sh** out of USC and oregon....all while being in BFE eastern washington where their are no recruits to get within 1000 miles from campus. Flat out amazing. Just think what he could do with real talent.

I have been to Washington State, the area is just gorgeous, but you are correct, it is a drive to get there...We stayed in Spokane and played 4 different courses, the Washington State course being one of them, they hosted the Men's NCAA championships later that year....

Sixteen teams. No selection committee. Ban divisions. Conferences have to choose their two best teams to play in conference championship games. P5 champions automatically in. G4 conference champions conditional bid: no more than two losses. American champion automatically in if champions have two or fewer losses or if champion rated in Top 35 of Massey composite ranking.

There would be at least six at large bids every years. At large bids would be given on basis of Massey's composite ranking. Six highest ranked no conference champions get in, regardless of conference affiliation. '

The only human role will be the seeding. At large bids can be #1 seed.

RobertM320 wrote:Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

16 would be an absolute minimum for the G5 in general, let alone the AAC, to have a realistic shot, and, even then, the team would need to be undefeated or have at most one loss.

G5 teams in the top 16 of the final CFP Poll by year:2014 - None - Highest rated was 11-2 Boise State at 202015 - None - Highest rated was 12-1 Houston at 182016 - 13-0 WMU at 15

The above is why even 16 would not be enough. In order to ensure that the G5 is included in the playoff, it would need to be expanded to 22-25 (which would be obscene).

EDIT: Clarity.

You missed my point. Six spots would go to champions of P5s and AAC, the seventh would go to best of the G4 teams. The other 9 would be at large based on the playoff rankings. So just like in the old BCS days, where a team could win a conf and go to a BCS bowl, even if they had 3-4 losses, you'd guarantee those six spots to the six champions. Then, the other 10 awarded as I stated. At that point, no one can complain because everyone has more access than they have currently. AAC is guaranteed a spot. G4 is guaranteed a spot. Conf champs of P5 are guaranteed a spot. And that still allows 9 more teams, so that in the event an undefeated team like Alabama loses in the SEC Championship game, they would still rate high enough to get one of the nine spots. Those nine spots in and of themselves allow more access than anyone currently has.

Its a win-win for everyone in FBS, as well as the fans, but the P5s are too greedy to go for that.

RobertM320 wrote:Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

Not only is it rigged to keep the G5 out, but there's more discussion about a G5 national championship. I don't like the idea, but I think it's more likely to happen than G5 conference winners getting an invite to a national championship tournament. What we really need is the AAC to be recognized as a member of the P6.

RobertM320 wrote:Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

Not only is it rigged to keep the G5 out, but there's more discussion about a G5 national championship. I don't like the idea, but I think it's more likely to happen than G5 conference winners getting an invite to a national championship tournament. What we really need is the AAC to be recognized as a member of the P6.

Where is that latest discussion of a G5 championship? I'd be surprised if it's coming from the schools. They have to realize it would be the end of them as D-1A schools. I know I wouldn't be interested enough to pay what they now charge for the product. They would have to really scale back.

No doubt that becoming a P6 is the best things for the AAC teams. They need to start claiming the New Years Bowl slot EVERY YEAR. They also need to start winning all the minor Bowl games it's teams go to. NO EXCUSES.

RobertM320 wrote:Its because the entire system is rigged to keep the G5 out. Remember last year? There was talk that even an undefeated Houston team wouldn't have been a lock for a 4 team playoff. As P5s continue to schedule each other, our strength of schedule gets weaker and weaker, and that's the very metric they use to say we don't belong. And I agree, even 8 teams won't guarantee a spot to a G5. It needs to be sixteen, and the AAC needs to be guaranteed spot on its own, and they can split one guaranteed spot among the G4.

16 would be an absolute minimum for the G5 in general, let alone the AAC, to have a realistic shot, and, even then, the team would need to be undefeated or have at most one loss.

G5 teams in the top 16 of the final CFP Poll by year:2014 - None - Highest rated was 11-2 Boise State at 202015 - None - Highest rated was 12-1 Houston at 182016 - 13-0 WMU at 15

The above is why even 16 would not be enough. In order to ensure that the G5 is included in the playoff, it would need to be expanded to 22-25 (which would be obscene).

EDIT: Clarity.

You missed my point. Six spots would go to champions of P5s and AAC, the seventh would go to best of the G4 teams. The other 9 would be at large based on the playoff rankings. So just like in the old BCS days, where a team could win a conf and go to a BCS bowl, even if they had 3-4 losses, you'd guarantee those six spots to the six champions. Then, the other 10 awarded as I stated. At that point, no one can complain because everyone has more access than they have currently. AAC is guaranteed a spot. G4 is guaranteed a spot. Conf champs of P5 are guaranteed a spot. And that still allows 9 more teams, so that in the event an undefeated team like Alabama loses in the SEC Championship game, they would still rate high enough to get one of the nine spots. Those nine spots in and of themselves allow more access than anyone currently has.

Its a win-win for everyone in FBS, as well as the fans, but the P5s are too greedy to go for that.

That proposal would instantly raise this question: if the CFP supposedly includes the best teams in the nation, why should there be any guaranteed spots for anyone? The current structure guarantees no spots for any of the P5, so, even if the number of teams in the CFP expanded, why should they guarantee spots? If the CFP expanded to 16, it's virtually certain that at least 2 teams from each P5 would get in, so there is no need to for them bargain with the G5 in exchange for a guarantee that they would have 2 teams if that's almost certain to happen anyway. Basically, as long as a P5 has a non-champ with 2 losses or less, that team will be in the top 16 on its own plus plenty of 3 loss P5 teams land in the top 16 too.

The 16 team field would definitely include the best teams in the nation. Not necessarily the 16 best teams in the nation, but everyone knows there's really only the top 8 or 10 that have a legit shot. I'm looking at fairness. 1998 Tulane is once again the perfect example. I believe that team would have beaten anyone in the NCAA, with maybe the exception of Manning-led Tennessee. Maybe we could have beaten them as well. But we never got the chance to show what we could do. Suppose a team like that came out of the MAC for example, like N Illinois. 12-0, 13-0 with their championship game, and destroyed everyone they played. They at least deserve the chance to prove they're the best. It works for March Madness, which draws huge ratings. My plan gives everyone a LEGITIMATE chance to win a national title, not this pseudo arrangement they have now. There's no chance that same N Illinois team, or even an undefeated Houston team of last year is going to get into the playoff under the current format. My plan would be the fairest for everyone, if fairness matters.

AAC has proven and will continue to prove they don't belong in G5, thereby deserving their own spot. Then the G4 gets one as well, so they all have a CHANCE. The other 14 spots would probably go to P5 schools, or maybe a second AAC school in an unusual year where you had two undefeateds play in the CCG. So how can the P5 argue that having 13-14 schools in the playoff is somehow not as good for them as having 4 or 8? Its only greed.

Here's my proposal: There are 10 FBS conferences. Each conference champion gets in. Six at-large births selected by committee. Seed teams #1-16; if all else is equal, seed with a preference towards reduced travel - i.e. Mac champ at Big Ten champ, Sun Belt at SEC, etc. Start the season one week earlier than now, still keep 12 games plus conference championships (so no one loses money). First round games at home campus of higher seed on the weekend the conference championship games are now played. Second round games played Christmas weekend or weekend before Christmas at bowl sites.* Semi-finals on New Year's Day at bowl sites. Championship game same day it is now. Every team in the country starts the season with a "chance" to win the national championship. Conference championships gain heightened importance. 8 schools get to host an extra home game. P5 can't complain because they'll likely end up with 9-11 teams each year, meaning more revenue for them. G5 schools at least get invited to the party to show what they can do and may get 1-2 at-large teams in.

*Could instead play this round in mid-December either on campus or at bowl sites and take Christmas weekend off

RobertM320 wrote:The 16 team field would definitely include the best teams in the nation. Not necessarily the 16 best teams in the nation, but everyone knows there's really only the top 8 or 10 that have a legit shot. I'm looking at fairness. 1998 Tulane is once again the perfect example. I believe that team would have beaten anyone in the NCAA, with maybe the exception of Manning-led Tennessee. Maybe we could have beaten them as well. But we never got the chance to show what we could do. Suppose a team like that came out of the MAC for example, like N Illinois. 12-0, 13-0 with their championship game, and destroyed everyone they played. They at least deserve the chance to prove they're the best. It works for March Madness, which draws huge ratings. My plan gives everyone a LEGITIMATE chance to win a national title, not this pseudo arrangement they have now. There's no chance that same N Illinois team, or even an undefeated Houston team of last year is going to get into the playoff under the current format. My plan would be the fairest for everyone, if fairness matters.

AAC has proven and will continue to prove they don't belong in G5, thereby deserving their own spot. Then the G4 gets one as well, so they all have a CHANCE. The other 14 spots would probably go to P5 schools, or maybe a second AAC school in an unusual year where you had two undefeateds play in the CCG. So how can the P5 argue that having 13-14 schools in the playoff is somehow not as good for them as having 4 or 8? Its only greed.

I agree with a lot of what you say. However as much as we want the AAC to be clearly above the other G5's it hasn't proven it yet. If it is to separate itself it must win the New Years 6 Bowl Slot every year and win all the minor Bowl games the rest of our teams are in.