Class Design on the 7.1.5 PTR

When the 7.1.5 PTR went up earlier this week, we had spell changes from datamining but no specific class changes in the official patch notes. As such, there was some confusion as to the intended changes and class directions for specializations that seemed unfinished.\r\rToday, Blizzard explained that the 7.1.5 PTR so far only shows roughly half of the mechanical changes, with more of them coming in the next build. Once the mechanical changes are in a good place, adjustments to overall performance will follow.\r\rYou can read up on the spell changes so far in our PTR datamining, talent calculator, honor calculator, and artifact calculator.\rHey all, \r\rWe\u2019re making some significant changes to many specializations in Patch 7.1.5, and this has understandably resulted in some concern and confusion, particularly from players who may be less familiar with our PTR and development processes. So, we\u2019d like to take a moment to explain what\u2019s going on and how it pertains to what you\u2019re seeing (or haven\u2019t yet seen) on the PTR.\r\rFirst, it\u2019s important to understand the role that the PTR plays in our overall development process. At this stage, Patch 7.1.5 is still a work in progress. The PTR is only a snapshot of where we happened to be in development at the time the build was created. There are a lot of people working on WoW, and a lot of projects in various stages of completion. As a result, especially at this early stage of the PTR cycle, you\u2019re going to see a lot of incomplete or unfinished work. Quite often, when something you see doesn\u2019t make sense, it\u2019s simply because we hadn\u2019t finished making it make sense before the latest build was created.\r\rLooking specifically at class design, the changes you\u2019re seeing so far are focused primarily on how each spec plays in terms of mechanics, rotations, ability sets, talent options, etc. As some of these changes are fairly significant, we haven\u2019t been making many adjustments to overall performance just yet. We need each spec to be completely functional before we can start tuning its effectiveness.\r\rRight now, the build currently live on the 7.1.5 PTR is only about halfway through those mechanical changes. We\u2019ve been continuing to work hard on getting those finished, and the next build should give you a clearer picture of what\u2019s happening with your spec. We\u2019ll try to share as much insight as we can into what we\u2019re doing at that point.

Комментарий от Purgatorywolf

Комментарий от 1505947

Комментарий от Glenmorange

on 2016-11-18T22:43:26-06:00

this should be interesting. I cant wait to get traps back.\r\rSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 7.2, not 7.1.5.

Комментарий от Thraesh

on 2016-11-18T22:45:56-06:00

It's like most any game, they are trying to lvl the playing field and here is how they think it will happen and want players to test it on PTR so they can adjust the changes to make every class\/spec viable. As stated above you will probably see hotfixes a couple weeks into live when the changes go through as well when everyone who skipped PTR and only complained see it on live. Ideally Blizzard wants every class\/spec to be a semi viable choice and fun, if not why have several specs in a class. I know from past PTR tests that while some changes that are unwanted make it through it usually ends with moaning and groaning for a couple weeks then everyone just carries on or "quits" as they all say

Комментарий от ShaofRiches

on 2016-11-18T23:11:20-06:00

It's 7.1.5. You can see some of the datamined notes where tar and freezing trap is no longer SV exclusive.

Комментарий от jaq1010

on 2016-11-18T23:13:53-06:00

Is it just me, or are the forum goers just getting stupider as time goes on?\r\rWhen I started playing seven years ago you didn't need to explain that the first build of a PTR wasn't a finished pass on classes, and there was a lot of work to be done even before you got to the tuning passes. Now a build gets datamined and everyone just assumes that's it, class balance is done, nothing else coming. \r\rHas the open toxicity of the forums driven away everyone reasonable?

Комментарий от Templarian

on 2016-11-19T00:14:59-06:00

Is it just me, or are the forum goers just getting stupider as time goes on?\r\rWhen I started playing seven years ago you didn't need to explain that the first build of a PTR wasn't a finished pass on classes, and there was a lot of work to be done even before you got to the tuning passes. Now a build gets datamined and everyone just assumes that's it, class balance is done, nothing else coming. \r\rHas the open toxicity of the forums driven away everyone reasonable?\r\rYou know, you're probably right. There's a reason I stay away from the forums, because no matter how much I'm enjoying the game at the moment, the sheer volume of negativity can color my perception.

Комментарий от Monique

on 2016-11-19T01:22:34-06:00

this should be interesting. I cant wait to get traps back.\r\rSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, but that's 7.2, not 7.1.5.\r\rIt's 7.1.5 patch for the trap change! I love this change. It's very much needed!

Комментарий от Sielinth

on 2016-11-19T03:22:44-06:00

Is it just me, or are the forum goers just getting stupider as time goes on?\r\rWhen I started playing seven years ago you didn't need to explain that the first build of a PTR wasn't a finished pass on classes, and there was a lot of work to be done even before you got to the tuning passes. Now a build gets datamined and everyone just assumes that's it, class balance is done, nothing else coming. \r\rHas the open toxicity of the forums driven away everyone reasonable?\r\rpossible, but i get the same feeling at work too so maybe the world in general is just lacking a dose of common sense and general know how these days\r\rthat said there are people who are genuinely new and don't know how blizzard operates. for that I blame EA, Ubisoft and countless other developers who treats beta as some sort of FFA demo, unlike Blizzard who just throw things in to see if it works and if it doesn't they'll rip it out and try again

Комментарий от Shelassa

on 2016-11-19T03:28:22-06:00

Is it just me, or are the forum goers just getting stupider as time goes on?\r\rWhen I started playing seven years ago you didn't need to explain that the first build of a PTR wasn't a finished pass on classes, and there was a lot of work to be done even before you got to the tuning passes. Now a build gets datamined and everyone just assumes that's it, class balance is done, nothing else coming. \r\rHas the open toxicity of the forums driven away everyone reasonable?\r\r\rPeople understand that this is a first iteration of PTR, changes aren't set in stone, there was no number pass, etc., etc., whath have you. What people are worried about is the direction Blizzard chooses to go with these changes and if you actually read the forum, even the thread provided via blue post, you'd see that. \r\rI'd also like to remind you of a year long alpha-beta cycle where reasonable people have submitted pages upon pages of feedback on systems and classes. Yet some of those classes were barely playable come release - some still are. It's very same reasonable people who have had enough of being ignored and want to see the changes beforehand and, possibly, have a say on them before they go live as submitting feedback during the last build of PTR surely get nothing done. \r\rTL;DR: People are frustrated and want Blizzard to communicate their plans, give 'em a slack. \r\rFor me personally 7.1.5 would be a make or break deal. I love Legion content - music, zones, story (even though Sylvanas and Genn dropping off the face of the Earth, dissappearance of Jaina, lack of Wrathion and Xe'ra have me worried). However, the messy state of PvP, AP \/ AK systems and the sorry place my class is in right now make it about as enjoyable as WoD. Oh, I have alts, sure, but they only make me feel sharper where my main is stuck. \r\rIt'd be a shame to have persisted through WoD only to leave in Legion :D

Комментарий от Zhyrce

Комментарий от Devidose

on 2016-11-19T07:01:20-06:00

It's also a mid expansion change. Class redesigns are something you expect during pre patch not after the first major patch of an expansion. WOD had some changes like the removal of Aspect of the Fox and Amp Magic due to stacking on raid bosses, like Blackhand, but with the way Legion has been designed, such as Legendaries and 2ndry stat scaling changes, the further release of content is going to cause the conflicts as we have seen and result in very significant changes as highlighted in the Legendary changes as well as MM hunters and fire mages having their spec trees changed.\r\rPart way through an expansion should never be the time to redesign a class or spec.

Комментарий от neoslayyer

on 2016-11-19T11:21:41-06:00

In other words, save your outrage and panic until about 1 week before the PTR ends. At that point, most, if not all, things should be final.

I also expect a large wave of hotfixes to go out 1-2 weeks after 7.1.5 goes live; no matter how good they get it in the PTR, there's a massive population that will never touch the PTR and will complain once it goes live. Blizzard has shown they're listening and acting more quickly through hotfixes (at least for numerical or very simple mechanical changes), so we'll see where everything ends up near the end of December\/start of January.

The classes should have been fixed and feedback(thousands of pages worth from beta screaming from the top of our lungs about what was broken) that should have been listened to when"before" Legion launched. WTH do we have to keep re learning our damn characters specs all over AGAIN when we are 1 1\/2 raids in already. This is really an outrage if you ask me. Having to relearn everything every month or two because they screwed up classes so bad to begin with should NOT be acceptable to the vast majority of the player base.

When i purchased Legion i thought i purchased a finished game, now you are telling me we were BETA testin again after launch for 4 months(by the time the patch comes out maybe)? This really is an outrage! No one should find this acceptable. If they put half as much time into classes in the first place rather than making Diabalo5 (the current WoW RNG outrage) and gating everything under the sun, we would not have to learn our specs over and over and over again.

Unbelievable.

Комментарий от moosecat11

on 2016-11-19T14:56:26-06:00

As a resto druid, I simply wish I could have back my glyphed Regrowth, and have Lifebloom interact with single target heals again in some way. Maybe not the same as previously, since refreshing with single target heals kind of makes the bloom part useless...maybe the bloom is stronger based on the single target heals used? Something.....

Комментарий от RightNow

on 2016-11-19T15:01:39-06:00

\r\r When i purchased Legion i thought i purchased a finished game, now you are telling me we were BETA testin again after launch for 4 months(by the time the patch comes out maybe)? This really is an outrage! No one should find this acceptable. If they put half as much time into classes in the first place rather than making Diabalo5 (the current WoW RNG outrage) and gating everything under the sun, we would not have to learn our specs over and over and over again. \r\rUnbelievable.\r\rI'm going to have to disagree with this in its entirety. This is how Blizzard works and how it has always worked with WoW. This isn't something new. The RNG "outrage" is something I'm willing to be the majority of paying customers don't care about because having something as a bonus is not the same as being required and yes, most of the guilds "requiring" it aren't as good as they think they are. People cleared harder content than most of these guilds without having any of these items and did just fine. \r\rMy chosen class (WL) has been changed so many times at this point I don't even remember the number. It isn't new for Blizz. I'm not always happy with it but I don't think dramatic posts about outrageous things are and how unbelievable it is really helps things in any concrete way.

Комментарий от Wolrajh

on 2016-11-19T15:06:56-06:00

They make changes, we are both entitled and almost required to give feedback. If we feel like something is going in the wrong direction, it's our right and I dare say duty to say so. That's what PTR actually are for, aren't they? Feedback ?It seems better to put a "warning" facade on right from the start than wait for the last week before release to wake up and say "huh, but are these actually going to make it into the game? They've been so wrong since day 1 on the PTR!".

Issue is, they are probably not going to listen : Blizzard has been displaying a very arrogant attitude for some years now, assuming the players are always wrong and should be patronized ( the infamous "you think you do, but you don't" line anyone ? ), only to silently roll back changes when they finally realize, only too late, they were actually the one to be wrong all this time...

Комментарий от rosebull

on 2016-11-19T16:10:39-06:00

They make changes, we are both entitled and almost required to give feedback. If we feel like something is going in the wrong direction, it's our right and I dare say duty to say so. That's what PTR actually are for, aren't they? Feedback ?\rIt seems better to put a "warning" facade on right from the start than wait for the last week before release to wake up and say "huh, but are these actually going to make it into the game? They've been so wrong since day 1 on the PTR!". \r\rIssue is, they are probably not going to listen : Blizzard has been displaying a very arrogant attitude for some years now, assuming the players are always wrong and should be patronized ( the infamous "you think you do, but you don't" line anyone ? ), only to silently roll back changes when they finally realize, only too late, they were actually the one to be wrong all this time...\r\rThis is all true if you pretend Blizzard wasn't right about the other 200 things. But sure, the one... two... maaaaybe three things they got wrong means they have no idea how to design the biggest game of all time. Yap.

Комментарий от darkelemental1

on 2016-11-19T18:54:27-06:00

They make changes, we are both entitled and almost required to give feedback. If we feel like something is going in the wrong direction, it's our right and I dare say duty to say so. That's what PTR actually are for, aren't they? Feedback ?\rIt seems better to put a "warning" facade on right from the start than wait for the last week before release to wake up and say "huh, but are these actually going to make it into the game? They've been so wrong since day 1 on the PTR!". \r\rIssue is, they are probably not going to listen : Blizzard has been displaying a very arrogant attitude for some years now, assuming the players are always wrong and should be patronized ( the infamous "you think you do, but you don't" line anyone ? ), only to silently roll back changes when they finally realize, only too late, they were actually the one to be wrong all this time...\r\rThis is all true if you pretend Blizzard wasn't right about the other 200 things. But sure, the one... two... maaaaybe three things they got wrong means they have no idea how to design the biggest game of all time. Yap.\r\r\rThey didnt design it though, this is the WoD team, they are building on the shoulders of giants who put in the actual work. All the good devs left to make better things or got fired and the classes they worked on treated terribly out of spite.

Комментарий от Interest

on 2016-11-19T19:31:13-06:00

Is it just me, or are the forum goers just getting stupider as time goes on?

When I started playing seven years ago you didn't need to explain that the first build of a PTR wasn't a finished pass on classes, and there was a lot of work to be done even before you got to the tuning passes. Now a build gets datamined and everyone just assumes that's it, class balance is done, nothing else coming.

Has the open toxicity of the forums driven away everyone reasonable?

Pretty sure it's basically always been this way. Good constructive criticism is hard to give and there's plenty of reasons why that can be traced to factors such as human behavior, social conditioning, etc. I'm sure most of the people who are angry or otherwise upset want to elicit some change but aren't necessarily going about it in the best way (hostile response is more likely to prevent the change one wants from happening), but that may just be my optimism speaking.

Комментарий от MadAltoholic

on 2016-11-20T02:06:26-06:00

Who cares about class tinkering on the PTR?\r\rI JUST WANT 1 LEGENDARY BEFORE THE NEXT EXPANSION!