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Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="Drez"]

[quote user="Ntegrase96"]Yeah. "Cheating"....

"According to the sources, the deductions are not termed as violations, but are part of a recent agreement the NFL and the Players Association made to raise the salary cap number while preserving benefit increases and the performance pool"

Also, the Cowboys could still have anywhere between 15-20 million in cap space this year, even with the cap hit.

Feel bad for the skins fans though... sort of.

[/quote]</p>

This would put the Boys over the cap, with Spencer signing his franchise tender. I think that cap number you have reflects some moves that you guys are expected to make, but haven't yet.</p>[/quote]

Right. That's what I meant. Most people feel that Newman and Kicker David Buehler won't be back and that instantly frees about 7 million. There are triggers in the contracts of Scandrick and Doug Free that would free up around 8.6 million, and restructuring the contracts of Dez and Ware would free up about 4 million.

And as you've stated, Spencer's franchise tag is worth 8.6 million itself, which he has yet to sign. Not saying we're going to go out and get Mario Williams, but the option is still available to make a big signing like that and let Spencer walk-- I don't believe he's signed the franchise tag yet.

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="gmen46"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts"]Well, not cheating in traditional terms, but trying to "cheat" the cap system.

This won't be any kind of scandal, just costly to both teams.
[/quote]

I understand the implication. But the fact is, there's nothing different in what the Cowboys and Redskins did to restructure contracts in an uncapped year than what several other teams did to save money in the same year. If not, the NFL wouldn't have allowed the Cowboys to restructure Miles Austin's contract like they did (they have to approve before the contract takes effect).

The uncapped part of the paragraph above implies that ALL teams were allowed to do what we and our NFCE counterparts did. They just didn't, most likely because they couldn't. And now they're crying foul because they felt that the Cowboys and Redskins gained an unfair advantage. An advantage they gained, but how unfair it was shouldn't be a topic of debate. Both the Redskins and Cowboys played by the rules that year.

[/quote]

If they played by the rules, then why is NFL taking tens of millions of dollars from them and reallocating said funds to the other 30 teams?

Seems like a penalty for some kind of rules violation to me, no matter how you spin it.[/quote]

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

"According to the sources, the deductions are not termed as violations, but are part of a recent agreement the NFL and the Players Association made to raise the salary cap number while preserving benefit increases and the performance pool"

Also, the Cowboys could still have anywhere between 15-20 million in cap space this year, even with the cap hit.

Feel bad for the skins fans though... sort of.

[/quote] Dont feel bad for us. Pukes fans.[/quote]

What I really meant was that I envy (ha!) the fact that you gave up two future number 1 picks, and a 2nd round pick for a guy who hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL because your front office (who are outstanding, btw) have good feeling about him. But hey, who needs draft picks when you have a lot of cap space...

[/quote]HAHA.. good point....lol. that cap space will be drying up pretty quick now and they may even lose a number 2 pick due to the greg williams things. lol. </P>

It kills me though how they make all these CRAZY off season moves for big name guys eevery season and spend HUGE DOLLARS to get them. YET it seems they are NEVER over the CAP. They actually always seem to be 20,30, 40 Million below the Cap in fact... How is that possible??</P>

Football has been very, very good to us.
Even though 2013-2015 were 3 losing season's, we can console ourselves with this fact-

# of Super Bowl victories since 1985:

1-Chicago, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, Indianapolis, New Orleans, Seattle
2-Washington, Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Baltimore
3-San Francisco, Dallas, Denver
4-New York Giants!!! & NE
Let's make it 5 in 2016 so we can be on a LINE all by ourselves again!!!

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="Drez"]This wasn't cheating. It was a backroom agreement/missive that actually amounts to collusion. However, it doesn't change the fact that tehy should have known better, but it didn't violate any law, rule, or regulation on the books.[/quote]

Agreed. Dumb move by Jerry and Danny boy... sort of. They were warned that this could happen, but I'm not exactly sure what kind of grounds the NFL has to impose these docks on our salary caps.

There weren't any rules to break, so how can you break any rules? Retroactively punishing an organization because the NFL didn't have the power to enforce the rules they wanted in 2010 doesn't make sense.

Still I believe you're right. The boys and skins front offices should have known better.

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

"According to the sources, the deductions are not termed as violations, but are part of a recent agreement the NFL and the Players Association made to raise the salary cap number while preserving benefit increases and the performance pool"

Also, the Cowboys could still have anywhere between 15-20 million in cap space this year, even with the cap hit.

Feel bad for the skins fans though... sort of.

[/quote] Dont feel bad for us. Pukes fans.[/quote]

What I really meant was that I envy (ha!) the fact that you gave up two future number 1 picks, and a 2nd round pick for a guy who hasn't taken a single snap in the NFL because your front office (who are outstanding, btw) have good feeling about him. But hey, who needs draft picks when you have a lot of cap space...

[/quote]HAHA.. good point....lol. that cap space will be drying up pretty quick now and they may even lose a number 2 pick due to the greg williams things. lol. </p>

It kills me though how they make all these CRAZY off season moves for big name guys eevery season and spend HUGE DOLLARS to get them. YET it seems they are NEVER over the CAP. They actually always seem to be 20,30, 40 Million below the Cap in fact... How is that possible??</p>[/quote]

I have no idea man. I guess because also they don't have to pay a QB franchise QB type numbers, and they also probably don't take a lot of damage from dead money and keep players throughout their contracts before they cut them. They're awful at making the free agent moves but good at finagling the financial part.

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="gmen46"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts"]Well, not cheating in traditional terms, but trying to "cheat" the cap system.

This won't be any kind of scandal, just costly to both teams.
[/quote]

I understand the implication. But the fact is, there's nothing different in what the Cowboys and Redskins did to restructure contracts in an uncapped year than what several other teams did to save money in the same year. If not, the NFL wouldn't have allowed the Cowboys to restructure Miles Austin's contract like they did (they have to approve before the contract takes effect).

The uncapped part of the paragraph above implies that ALL teams were allowed to do what we and our NFCE counterparts did. They just didn't, most likely because they couldn't. And now they're crying foul because they felt that the Cowboys and Redskins gained an unfair advantage. An advantage they gained, but how unfair it was shouldn't be a topic of debate. Both the Redskins and Cowboys played by the rules that year.

[/quote] If they played by the rules, then why is NFL taking tens of millions of dollars from them and reallocating said funds to the other 30 teams? Seems like a penalty for some kind of rules violation to me, no matter how you spin it.[/quote]</P>

All there was was*a backroom agreement among the owners to not do what the Cowboys and Redskins did. Essentially, it was collusion among the owners to keep salaries down during the uncapped year. Reportedly, the NFL FO sent memo's informing clubs to not structure contracts that way, but there is no real*basis in any actual rule or law of the NFL for them to make that issuance. </P>

Still, as I previously stated, they still should have known better.</P>[/quote]

So you're saying the NFL has just arbitrarily fined Cowboys and Redskins tens of millions of dollars for no real reason at all. For no rules violation.

And if, as you claim, the other 30 owners essentially committed collusion by not doing what Dallas and Washington did that year, they are all now being rewarded by the NFL for committing collusion, with the equably distributed money taken from Dallas and Washington.

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="gmen46"]
So you're saying the NFL has just arbitrarily fined Cowboys and Redskins tens of millions of dollars for no real reason at all. For no rules violation.

And if, as you claim, the other 30 owners essentially committed collusion by not doing what Dallas and Washington did that year, they are all now being rewarded by the NFL for committing collusion, with the equably distributed money taken from Dallas and Washington.

And you actually believe this?

Wow.[/quote]

That's exactly what has happened. Just nobody cares because it affects 28 teams positively and is now being covered up by FA frenzy.

I posted this in another thread here, but I'll copy and paste again. This is what has happened:

1. The league approved the contract of Miles Austin in 2010 (with the
17 million front loaded) because they couldn't say no to it without
being sued by the NFLPA. But still they wanted to punish the Cowboys
for taking advantage of a year with no cap-- for some reason, I'm still
not exactly sure since everything done was well within the rules of
that season.

2. In order to punish the Cowboys, the NFL would
have to have the NFLPA's approval. In order to do that, they waited
until they had leverage on the NFLPA to get them to agree to carry out
sanctions on teams that "abused" the cap in an uncapped year.

3.
That leverage came in the form of an election year for the NFLPA's
Executive Director, DeMaurice Smith. The unadjusted cap for 2012 would
have dropped for the first time ever without the reduction of the
Cowboys and Redskins caps, which would shine a poor light on DeMaurice
Smith. Thus, the NFL, in a way, strong armed the NFLPA to cooperate.

It was a legal move by the NFL to dock both caps. To me, the legality
of the move, doesn't justify the punishment. In an uncapped year, there
are no rules to be broken. The Cowboys and Redskins did absolutely nothing wrong.

Basically, the Cowboys and Redskins are being punished for not colluding with other teams to the back room 'gentleman's agreement' and denying requests from the NFL to not spend a lot in an uncapped year-- which the NFL had absolutely positively no grounds to do so. In fact, instructing the Cowboys and Redskins to not overspend was illegal on their part since the year was uncapped.

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="gmen46"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts"]Well, not cheating in traditional terms, but trying to "cheat" the cap system.

This won't be any kind of scandal, just costly to both teams.
[/quote]

I understand the implication. But the fact is, there's nothing different in what the Cowboys and Redskins did to restructure contracts in an uncapped year than what several other teams did to save money in the same year. If not, the NFL wouldn't have allowed the Cowboys to restructure Miles Austin's contract like they did (they have to approve before the contract takes effect).

The uncapped part of the paragraph above implies that ALL teams were allowed to do what we and our NFCE counterparts did. They just didn't, most likely because they couldn't. And now they're crying foul because they felt that the Cowboys and Redskins gained an unfair advantage. An advantage they gained, but how unfair it was shouldn't be a topic of debate. Both the Redskins and Cowboys played by the rules that year.

[/quote] If they played by the rules, then why is NFL taking tens of millions of dollars from them and reallocating said funds to the other 30 teams? Seems like a penalty for some kind of rules violation to me, no matter how you spin it.[/quote]</P>

All there was wasa backroom agreement among the owners to not do what the Cowboys and Redskins did. Essentially, it was collusion among the owners to keep salaries down during the uncapped year. Reportedly, the NFL FO sent memo's informing clubs to not structure contracts that way, but there is no realbasis in any actual rule or law of the NFL for them to make that issuance. </P>

Still, as I previously stated, they still should have known better.</P>

[/quote] So you're saying the NFL has just arbitrarily fined Cowboys and Redskins tens of millions of dollars for no real reason at all. For no rules violation. And if, as you claim, the other 30 owners essentially committed collusion by not doing what Dallas and Washington did that year, they are all now being rewarded by the NFL for committing collusion, with the equably distributed money taken from Dallas and Washington. And you actually believe this? Wow.[/quote]</P>

Why is it so hard to believe. There was NO cap or floor in '10. Sure, the NFL said don't front load contracts to get the meat of it out of the way in the uncapped year, but they had no legal basis for doing so. Even the reasoning they've given is suspect... "detrimental to future competitive balance" or some such nonsense.</P>

It's collusion. And the Cowboys and Redskins decided not to play along and now the other owners want to punish them.None of this seems very far fetched to me. Also, let me make it clear that I don't have a problem with that. </P>

It seems stranger that in an uncapped yearthat there'd be provisions, that the NFLPA would have had to sign off on, that would limit how teams could spend money.</P>

Re: Cowboys and Redskins fined for cheating

[quote user="gmen46"][quote user="Ntegrase96"][quote user="FeaglesPuntsEaglesRunts"]Well, not cheating in traditional terms, but trying to "cheat" the cap system.

This won't be any kind of scandal, just costly to both teams.
[/quote]

I understand the implication. But the fact is, there's nothing different in what the Cowboys and Redskins did to restructure contracts in an uncapped year than what several other teams did to save money in the same year. If not, the NFL wouldn't have allowed the Cowboys to restructure Miles Austin's contract like they did (they have to approve before the contract takes effect).

The uncapped part of the paragraph above implies that ALL teams were allowed to do what we and our NFCE counterparts did. They just didn't, most likely because they couldn't. And now they're crying foul because they felt that the Cowboys and Redskins gained an unfair advantage. An advantage they gained, but how unfair it was shouldn't be a topic of debate. Both the Redskins and Cowboys played by the rules that year.

[/quote] If they played by the rules, then why is NFL taking tens of millions of dollars from them and reallocating said funds to the other 30 teams? Seems like a penalty for some kind of rules violation to me, no matter how you spin it.[/quote]</P>

All there was was*a backroom agreement among the owners to not do what the Cowboys and Redskins did. Essentially, it was collusion among the owners to keep salaries down during the uncapped year. Reportedly, the NFL FO sent memo's informing clubs to not structure contracts that way, but there is no real*basis in any actual rule or law of the NFL for them to make that issuance. </P>

Still, as I previously stated, they still should have known better.</P>

[/quote] So you're saying the NFL has just arbitrarily fined Cowboys and Redskins tens of millions of dollars for no real reason at all. For no rules violation. And if, as you claim, the other 30 owners essentially committed collusion by not doing what Dallas and Washington did that year, they are all now being rewarded by the NFL for committing collusion, with the equably distributed money taken from Dallas and Washington. And you actually believe this? Wow.[/quote]</P>

Why is it so hard to believe. There was NO cap or floor in '10. Sure, the NFL said don't front load contracts to get the meat of it out of the way in the uncapped year, but they had no legal basis for doing so. Even the reasoning they've given is suspect... "detrimental to future competitive balance" or some such nonsense.</P>

It's collusion. And the Cowboys and Redskins decided not to play along and now the other owners want to punish them.*None of this seems very far fetched to me. Also, let me make it clear that I don't have a problem with that. </P>

It seems stranger that in an uncapped year*that there'd be provisions, that the NFLPA would have had to sign off on, that would limit how teams could spend money.*</P>[/quote]

Why is it so hard (for me) to believe this?

1) Because what you describe has not been in any media explanation that I have seen. If you have a direct link or reference, I'd love to read it.

2) Because what you describe means that Jerry Jones and Dan Snyder--two of the LAST NFL owners I believe would just roll over and take it up the *** from the NFL--are, in fact, allowing tens of millions of dollars to be taken from them, for NO REASON at all, according to you and ntegrase.

I invert your question back to you. Why is it NOT hard for you and ntegrase to believe this nonsense?