Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Who Pays?: A Debate

I was talking to my friend the other day about a dating experience she had experienced that had my jaw on the ground. And you know the first thought that came to my mind? I wish it had happened to me…so I could write about it on my BLOG! I don’t know what that really says about me…the fact that I have no life of my own that I am wishing to have horrible dating experiences simply so I could sit down and write about them during the day and thus kill two birds with one stone—something to do at night AND something to entertain my readers. But alas, this did not happen to me but I decided not to let that stop me. I can still kill one bird. So here goes…

A friend of my friend had been chatting with a guy she met over the phone for a few weeks and one night he called her up to see if she’d like to go out to dinner. He also said she could bring a friend and his cousin to come along just to make the evening more of a fun, innocent, double dating experience. That sounds fun, right? Some great food, a cocktail or two (or some Perrier!), a cute guy to flirt with…sounds like my kind of fun. Well for most of the evening, that’s exactly what it was. They met up at Trader Vic’s, a swanky little restaurant in the heart of Beverly Hills, and everything was fabulous until…

…Until the check came. I’m sure you can see where this is headed. One of the guys had credit cards that kept being declined and the other guy had a whopping $20 bucks to offer. He wasn’t even carrying a wallet AND this whole date was his idea in the first place. That’s fine and all if you were treating someone to Burger King but it does not cut it anywhere in 90210. So my two friends paid the bill. The whole experience was drawn out and a tad embarrassing for all involved I’m sure. And maybe if the guys had been overly apologetic about the whole situation it could have been more easily forgiven but this was not the case. When the two gentlemen made there way outside my two friends slipped out the side door and made a quick get-a-way. Was this a bit extreme? Maybe. But sometimes lessons need to be learned the hard way. This man had just made the worst first impression on a first date and he didn’t seem too bothered by it so it serves him right.

I think we all know how I feel about men paying for checks on first dates. If you perhaps need a bit of a refresher feel free to read this blog I wrote on the subject a while back. if I’m payin’ we ain’t datin’. Maybe I should get that on a t-shirt. But perhaps I am not in the majority when it comes to this issue and maybe in this groundbreaking year of women running for president and whatnot it is time to re-evaluate just who is responsible for the check at the end of the night. Is it up for negotiation? Does it matter who suggests the outing in the first place? Is it reason enough to not consider date #2 if as a woman you had to come out of pocket the first time around? Please share your thoughts and I’ll put up a poll in the top right hand corner so you can vote and make this official… for those of you who aren’t ready to share your thoughts in writing just yet.

EDIT: While this has nothing to do with the debate or the ongoing discussion, I felt compelled to share the final straw to this unbelieveable story. I thought it was bad enough...but it gets worse. After my friend read the blog I wrote she told me she forgot to tell me the worst part. Supposedly the check had been divided up between cash and credit card because they had been kind enough to leave their $20 and whatever other spare change they had as a contribution. But after they realized they got left at the curb they proceeded to go back in the restaurant and TAKE BACK their cash!!! Not just their cash either...part of the cash that my friend left as well. When my friend saw that her credit card had been charged for the full amount of the bill, she called the restaurant and the manager had informed her that the two gentleman had been back in and took the cash from the check presenter and so therefore they had to charge the credit card the full amount. Let me add that this guy has money. I did not mention it earlier because I found it to be irrelevant but he's played professional football and unless he's as dumb as MC Hammer, he shouldn't be hurting that bad. I don't know what his cousin does to have four credit cards declined but that's just pathetic. In lieu of this startling revelation I feel it is my duty to have this be a public service announcement...

Wow! What are they? 14? Who does that? First of all, just as a rule of thumb the guys shoulda been prepared to cover all dating expenses on G.P. Second of all, there is no need to front. If he knew he only had $20 he shoulda told home girl that when the date was suggested or not go out at all until he had a lil more guap. Im sure the other dude knew he didnt have shit on his card. I know how much I got on mine. Dont we all. Or at least have a ballpark idea. I can tell you this....I bet any day of the week I know if I have enough to cover dinner and drinks for 4. No need to front....if you know you short just say it. The ladies might not have minded going dutch if they hadnt made such a huge production of it.

As for who pays and when that really differs. More times than not I will pay. Of if I wanna go out or she wants to go out and I know Im short I will let her know. Or what if she offers to take me to lunch, in that case I would still make sure I had enough just in case, but her taking me to lunch sounds like her treat. Its 2008...we can switch it up. But in a situation like above where you are just getting to know the person I say the guy should pay.

So I won’t make too big of a production out of this, being that this is YOUR blog and all, but I’m wondering what women think their role in dating is exactly these days. I mean I have no problem paying for dates. I actually prefer it. But I don’t like it when girls expect me to pay. That would be like a guy expecting to get booty. That’s not ok for us, so it shouldn’t be ok for ya’ll. So if I’m not gonna cry about going home by myself, then you shouldn’t cry about picking up the bill if necessary. And no…we shouldn’t just be grateful for your company Bri. (I can just hear you saying something like that.) Lol. But yes, those dudes are whack, and should be ashamed of themselves.

Being the gentleman that I am and the great husband my wife claims me to be (big smile), I always pay and have always paid for our meals. It's respectful, it's chivalric, it's just the right thing to do in my opinion. I think that chivalry has become a lost art in today's society, but I am teaching my daughter to expect nothing less of a potential mate. If the person she chooses to date can't pay for their meal, won't open the door for her and blows for her to come outside for them to go, then what does that say about his character? She's going to know that the kind of man who does those things can't provide, is irresponsible and more than likely just rude, disrespectful and probably a bit controlling.

But anyway, I said all that just to say that in this situation, on a basic level since he extended the invitation, he should've known to have been prepared to pay. Plain and simple. Those guys were the kinds of guys to avoid. Their lack of remorse shows that they are used to trying to get over on women.

I might be old school but the guy should pay. If you are an item then I can see changing it up now and then if she really insists but if he asked and you and it's a first...wow...I'm shocked. Guys like that make things easier for the rest of us though lol.

I think this falls under a common stereotype of the battle of sexes. On the first date you both should be able to hold your own on a meal. I feel on that first date your there to actually learn and understand each others personality. Not if hes going to pay the bill...offering is a nice gesture on his part but holding your own is a lot more respectful in my eyes. No disrespect to jadisone but a male can front the bill but still have some "bitchassness" in him (excuse the language). Buying a meal doesn't convince me of anything. It damn sure show doesn't get any G.P Especially if he plans to date any of my daughters. I will need his Drivers License, Passport, Next of kin, etc. J/K But you know what I mean. In the end Men and Women should come to a date both prepared to pay.

Dinar just turn in your playahs card. A MAN pays, a MAN drives, a MAN is chauvinistic and old fashioned no matter what year. Expecting the man to take care of the woman is not the same as a man expecting booty. For you to draw that comparison and think it was cool says volumes about you, were you the cat in the original story? Just asking.

I learned this the hard way, women want to feel secure. Even if they can afford to buy the restaurant they want to know they have a man that is their to cover them regardless.Rule is all parties come prepared to cover just in case. Women have enough for food and a cab. Just in case you run into some "bitchassness". Men be real about yours. If you do not have the funds for Crustecaens take her to Red Lobster. If you do not have th funds for Red Lobster pack a picnic!

Don't let bro-in-law front with you, he paid on our first date and many dates after that until we become more of an 'item'. Then I would offer to pay some of the times. He's a gentlemen even if he'd rather it be more equal on the paying field. Shooot I wouldn't have married him if he hadn't paid. Ya heard me! hahaha

Last year a good guy friend of mine gave me some key advise: Guy pays, you expect it. Guys need to know that you are worth their money and their time. If you knew me you'd know that I am NOT a gold-digger or do I care about the financial status of my date, but he's letting me know that I'm worth his money. I don't expect dinner at Tavern on the Green, just as I don't expect to foot the bill.

Dinar, if you paid for my date I would say thank you, shake your hand, and leave you with: "No ringy, no dingy. G'night!"

If you have just started dating then the guy should come out of pocket and scoop up any bill that falls on the table. Now if you have been dating forever, then every once in awhile the woman can scoop up the tab just to show her man she appreciates him. But a majority of the time, I'm coming out of pocket: movies, dinners, skating, bowling, beers, drinks, visits to the zoo (best dates ever!!!)

I’d have to concur with nigel “6five” bigbee! After making things official and it has been a while a man needs to feel appreciated by his lady every once in a while. I usually get 2 meals a year when I’m seriously dating…my birthday…and publishing my research in a top scientific journal.

Please tell me this is all a big joke! I can’t imagine allowing a female to pay for her meal on the first date….or the second...or the third…or the fouth..ect.. I always make it clear to the waiter/waitress to put everything on one check before the drinks are even ordered and I tell the female she can order whatever she likes. Therefore, if she wants to order the most expensive thing on the menu…it’s okay because I’m well prepared. Furthermore, I know she’s not using me because more than likely she has more than enough money to pay for her own meal. And frequently I’m going to order the best dish (which is usually the most expensive) so why would I expect her not to order the best dish or the one she desires regardless of price? So it’s never an issue with me because I face it ahead of time. I always come prepared knowing I’m paying for the bill AND THE TIP! It’s not a good look to have a $125.00 meal and give a $5.00 tip. You have to watch out for this type of brother too. This is a sign that he’s selfish or cheap and not a giver. To be honest…it makes me feel good knowing that I’m with a female who has “old fashion” expectations. This is a sign that she values herself, has high standards and expects to be treated like a true lady. I think we need more men who are willing to show boys, by example and not talk, how to treat women!

Sorry for the long letter....but it’s situations like these that cause women to say, “All men are dogs” and it makes the road harder for real brothers of character and integrity.

Hello brianna, i'm Yoan the guadeloupean boy. I meet you for the meeting internationnal in guadeloupe. I remember that you finish at the 3rd place and after course you has gived me your flower.So you had gived me your addresse but i haven't writing bcause i'm french and don't speak english very well you understand??So i want to correspond with you because i think you're a very sympathic woman. answer me quickly please

The man should always be prepared to pay. If you luck up and the woman decides to help you out, then that is just a plus.

If you are really concerned about money you should not take the girl to a place that you can't afford. That seems to be the real issue with this story. They were trying to impress these ladies with a special place, but ended up not having the money to take care of it. I am not going to take a girl to a place where the bill is going to be 200 dollars if I am concerned that the credit card could come back. That is ridiculous on my part.

Bianca...you and dinar would NOT make a good couple. sorry dinar, i think you are on your own island this time.

nigel...visits to the zoo huh? i like your creativity.

wendell...although i don't know you personally, i can tell you are a great date! AND THE TIP...YES, YES, YES. you are so right about tipping well. i've been known to leave an extra something behind on the sly because i was so embarassed of how much they left for the tip.

yoan...guadaloupe was a few years ago and my memory is a little hazy but feel free to email me, thanks.

brit...give the boy a break, he's french! it was kinda funny though.

des...thank god you were always a gentleman! ;)

on another note...please check the edit i am about to make to my post. i know it seems like these guys were cheap and trying to live beyond their means but that wasn't really the case. the only word i can come up with is scandalous.

I just replied to your poll. But I felt the need to say that I do believe that a women should NEVER have to pay for her dinner, especially on the first date. Down the road when a more serious relationship on boards, the two can dutch it up, but even at that level, I feel that the man should pay for the more expensive parts of the outing.

P.S.: Thank you for stopping by my blog and leaving your feedback over the domain name.

Wow...that was a kicker of a ending. Thats some real "Bitchassness" for you. Why blackout the eyes?...this guy is obviously in need of a reality check. You should post his NFL stats and team along with his pic because I still dont know who he is. Hahaha!! Maybe he is a relative of M.C. Hamma. ..And yes Brit does take me out to taco bell a lot. But, hey I love taco bell.

Thank you for having me answered Brianna.I would participate in the debate to improve my English because I travel a lot. I was even toward your town there was not longtemps. debate what is in fact?? mercy to advance lol!

I think I enjoyed reading all of the comments just as much as the post! I have some new quips! First one coming from Ms. Bianca! No ringy no dingy!! LMAO!! And then Bro-n-law taking it to Diddy's saying about the "Bitchassness"!! (HILARIOUS)Poor Yoan....just gotta smile b/c he's tryin hard!! =) I definitely think the man should pay! Made the mistake of paying once myself and that was a quick lesson learned! =) I enjoyed it as always Brianna!!

Putting my 10 pence in (thats and English term for adding my opinion) before you all lambaste me like poor Yoan. lol

I agree if he asks he pays. But, as the ladies in your piece showed. Carrying 'Malice Money' or your card is aways a must when you go out. Cause you dont know what you might end up getting yourself into. ;)

Brianna, once again you have not failed to amuse. LOL If any of y'all are as curious, not to mention nosy as me, I know Google is about to be blown up with inquiries as to the identity of this "date jacker" and his sidekick. I'm a sports junkie and have no idea who this brotha might be. Facemasks are definitely this guys saving grace. Just a suggestion, y'all might want to begin your search under "NFL, bankruptcy, Chino, Repos*. This bruh'man is despicable.

Okay, those two knucleheads are very lame. The fact that they came back in to take the case is nauseating.

I always looked at dating as whoever asks pays. Most often my manfriend would pay for meals, but I would willingly pic up the check before him sometimes. I only thought it was fair.

After reading the comments, I think I will keep my little hands off of the check from now on until marriage...lol. Plus, my meals are usually always $8 or less. If he can't cover that then I need to press on.

On the first date, as the dood I pay, it's romantic and women make enough sacrifices later on in a relationship, I can pay for dinner. Moving forward I don't feel I always have to pay but I'm prepared to. But on that 1st date, even if she invites me out, even if I don't want a 2nd date I keep my integrity and shell out the doe. If I'm low on funds or not that into chicky I won't call it a date and we can go dutch, ya digg? I don't really care to comment on homies actions, I think it's just downright triflin, too bad he had to be a brotha.

I think this story trumps airplane experience. I thought that we had seen you at your best, but it looks like your blogging skill continues to grow. I appreciate you for having the courage to share lady bug, keep up the good work.

Can the restaurant charge the card like that if that's not what she signed for? Hmm... that sounds shady.

And those trifling boys that stepped out with declined cards and $20 -- they must've done this to some girls before that said, "Oh baby, it's alright. You can get it next time."

I believe the man should pay for the first month or two or until it's confirmed that y'all are in a committed relationship. During that time, the woman can pay for something like tickets to a play or show, (if she does it in advance) but shouldn't have to show her money or put down a credit card.

A man paying for a date proves to a woman that she is special or worthy of his time?! I just don't get that. I think that there are better ways to establish that other than monetarily. The chivalry thing, ok, but I gotta say, a man can pay for your dinner one night, and another woman's the next. Is that special or does that just mean he has enough money to do it?

Ok, wait, wait, wait, HOW can you go back into a restaurant, and reclaim the money you paid for services rendered?? The waitstaff and/or the management shouldnt have allowed that! You put the cash down, it stays down!

Im sorry your friend had to pay for these poor excuse for menfolks' muck-up.

About Me

This blog is about me. My life, athletic career, friends, family, dating life, adventures, travels, musings, and anything else I feel compelled to share. My life is sometimes fabulous and sometimes not but it's mine and I wouldn't change a thing.