enry:Good thing we're using it here rather than shipping it to Texas so it can be exported and...wait, what?

/drill here, send there

This, sorta.It's bad enough that the oil is more important to extract than the drinking water is to protect especially as the continent is increasingly in drought conditions, what do we do when all the water is poisoned?. Putting that aside, why can't we process it, refine it, you know, add value, create jobs and maybe even use it here?

So, that's the only answer to 'laser-like focus on jobs'? ND seems to get trotted out as a shining star of job creation these days.Should 3 mil unemployed all move there now? Not that they can afford to, but what will happen to ND if they did? Somehow, I don't think that'll solve the problems of unemployment or oil independence.

Snarfangel:MaudlinMutantMollusk: Only an idiot would believe that all that "Drill, baby, drill" bullsh*t was about anything other than making fast money, and any claims of lowering prices were baldfaced lies

vudutek:Should 3 mil unemployed all move there now? Not that they can afford to, but what will happen to ND if they did?

What's basically happening there now. . . a full-blown gouging by property owners in the state. Last I heard, rent in San Francisco is cheaper than Williston, and while I don't blame anyone for being a capitalist, they passed laws preventing anyone from squatting to save money so this isn't capitalist -- it's cronyist. At least we now know the whole "North Dakotans are the classiest people in the country" is so much bunk; when given the opportunity they're as slummy as the worst in the Big Apple. Which isn't to say one is worse than the other; just that people suck, and it's nice to see delusions get blown up.

enry:Good thing we're using it here rather than shipping it to Texas so it can be exported and...wait, what?

/drill here, send there

I can't wait until they start exporting all of the natural gas that they can so that I can pay 4x as much to heat my house every winter and the gas producers can go from 'tidy profit' to 'obscene profits'

Getting oil from oil shell is super expensive compared to regular drilling. It's only because the prices are so artificially high, that American oil companies can afford to get oil this way.

Now if OPEC was smart, they would come down on their oil prices, just enough to kill oil shell. They could still make huge profits, but with a much wider market, and in the meantime, with no money from oil shell to feed their lobbyist, the American oil companies get slaughtered by the environmentalist in Congress. OPEC could then give a bunch of money to the Environmental lobby to make sure they kill shell. Now that is how you play the Game of Oil Thrones.

I'm really amazed that so many people buy the lie that oil produced in the U.S. or Canada actually belongs to those countries. The oil is sold on the open markets by private companies to whoever will pay for it.Unless we're planning on nationalizing oil companies it makes no difference how much oil comes from here.

Some Coke Drinking Guy:Getting oil from oil shell is super expensive compared to regular drilling. It's only because the prices are so artificially high, that American oil companies can afford to get oil this way.

Now if OPEC was smart, they would come down on their oil prices, just enough to kill oil shell. They could still make huge profits, but with a much wider market, and in the meantime, with no money from oil shell to feed their lobbyist, the American oil companies get slaughtered by the environmentalist in Congress. OPEC could then give a bunch of money to the Environmental lobby to make sure they kill shell. Now that is how you play the Game of Oil Thrones.

Come to think of it, the whole oil game is one big Game of Thrones. America is the Starks, or is in the Lannisters? The Arabs are the other guys. Russia is kind of like the viking dudes that fark things up for the hell of it. China is the girl across the ocean that has the Dragons. And Winter is some game changing environmental disaster that everyone knows is coming, but no one pays any attention to.

This is sadly true, that's why the US has avoided tapping into our own reserves. People think it will make gas prices lower but it's not the case. OPEC will see what we are doing and simply restrict the amount of oil they supply to offset what we are getting from our reserves, making prices relatively equal. At least thats how it was explained to me, I may be missing some key points somewhere.

Hannity a while back was interviewing a person looking for truck drivers up there where he said they could make as much as $100000 a year. Late in the interview, Hannity messed up and asked him how many hours a person would need to work to make that. He told him 120 hours a week.

shastacola:I'm really amazed that so many people buy the lie that oil produced in the U.S. or Canada actually belongs to those countries. The oil is sold on the open markets by private companies to whoever will pay for it.Unless we're planning on nationalizing oil companies it makes no difference how much oil comes from here.

Up until 2009 Petro-Canada was a nationally run entity. Having said that, being publicly or privately held made no difference what so ever.

If you did keep the export ban, any lower crude oil costs in the United States wouldn't get passed onto consumers anyways. United States wholesale gasoline and diesel markets pay global prices because you still import a lot of gasoline and diesel made from expensive international crude oils. Any domestic refinery that benefited from lower domestic crude oil prices would simply keep charging those international prices for the fuel they produce because that's what the market will bear. The refinery then pockets that extra revenue.

So you're screwed either way as a consumer of gasoline and diesel. That being said, the lesser of two evils is to lift the export ban. If you leave the export ban in place, the extra revenue earned by refiners won't be used for anything but to line the pockets of their owners (the refinery market in the U.S. is already underutilized, meaning no additional investments will be made and no extra jobs will be created with that cash). By lifting the ban, you can economically benefit from the extra drilling and production it'd create. Otherwise, the lower domestic oil prices would cause drilling investment to get exported to some other country where the companies could get those higher, world oil prices.

Ontos:MaudlinMutantMollusk: Only an idiot would believe that all that "Drill, baby, drill" bullsh*t was about anything other than making fast money, and any claims of lowering prices were baldfaced lies

/not to mention the profligate stupidity of using our own reserves as fast as possible

shastacola:I'm really amazed that so many people buy the lie that oil produced in the U.S. or Canada actually belongs to those countries. The oil is sold on the open markets by private companies to whoever will pay for it.Unless we're planning on nationalizing oil companies it makes no difference how much oil comes from here.

In Canada, the right to drill public lands is sold by the government. Royalties are paid on every drop that comes out of the ground. You don't need to nationalize it, just tax it.

Why should my parents suffer financially while driving their 45ft land yacht (with a car in tow) all around the western U.S. because some ass in an undeveloped country is willing to pay more for the gas that supplies power to his community's hospital? Ridiculous!

Dirty J1:This is sadly true, that's why the US has avoided tapping into our own reserves. People think it will make gas prices lower but it's not the case. OPEC will see what we are doing and simply restrict the amount of oil they supply to offset what we are getting from our reserves, making prices relatively equal. At least thats how it was explained to me, I may be missing some key points somewhere.

You've got the right idea, except that oil producing nations these days wont really cut back on supply because that means lower revenues, and they are addicted to that money. When you've got your national budget running off a set amount, you cant just cut back 25% without farking over your own country.

Its why OPEC has actually lost a lot of its power in the last decade or two. Places like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela dont actually abide by OPEC guidelines anymore.

Tenga:Hannity a while back was interviewing a person looking for truck drivers up there where he said they could make as much as $100000 a year. Late in the interview, Hannity messed up and asked him how many hours a person would need to work to make that. He told him 120 hours a week.

What a life. Yay capitalism!

They can make a shiatload more than that. That's slightly better than average starting pay in the Permian basin, but without the winter weather.

They would probably work 6 months on, 6 months off at 12 hours or so a day to make 100k+. Some of the better paying jobs like loggers and engineers are usually 1 month on, 1 month off... but they are in the 250k to 400k a year range.

Tenga:Hannity a while back was interviewing a person looking for truck drivers up there where he said they could make as much as $100000 a year. Late in the interview, Hannity messed up and asked him how many hours a person would need to work to make that. He told him 120 hours a week.

I'm sure half the trucks up there have Texas plates AND a faded "Please, God, Just One More Oil Boom, I promise not to piss it all away this time" bumper sticker on them.

Nope, the Texas folks all down here drillin' like mad in the Eagle Ford. It's how Gov. Goodhair can pimp us out as an economic success story. As if he stuck all that shale oil there hisself by cutting taxes and regulations and shutting down health clinics that also perform abortions.

/has land leased to drillers. May as well, we don't own 100% of the rights anyway//gives a lot of money to Sierra Club and Nature Conservancy///can you say conflicted?////slashies

shastacola:I'm really amazed that so many people buy the lie that oil produced in the U.S. or Canada actually belongs to those countries. The oil is sold on the open markets by private companies to whoever will pay for it.Unless we're planning on nationalizing oil companies it makes no difference how much oil comes from here.

While you're right that the oil is sold on free market exchanges, it *is* true that the oil ends up being consumed by American consumers and businesses... for the simple logistical truth that it costs more money to move oil across the world than it is to move oil across the country. While one of America's largest exports is oil... its not actual oil, its petroleum products... we refine all that oil into advanced fertilizers, industrial chemicals, etc, which directly feeds the American economy.

At the end of the day, even if you're paying the same price, its better for those dollars to end up in American pockets than Saudi pockets.

If the price of oil dropped to $10 a bbl, it would be cheaper for those companies to pack up and go home than to continue processing the shale oil. All of a sudden OPEC would be king again. The United States is suddenly competitive as an oil producer because the international cost of oil has made it profitable to extract our reserves. In other words, you're an idiot if you think domestic production = cheap oil.

It would suck... but generally the idea is to sacrifice a year or two to make a good lick ($250-$500k), and then go back to a normal lifestyle with your newly financed business or paid off home, etc. Not many people try to turn that into a permanent lifestyle.

/I might go work on an oil field myself soon for the purpose of injecting a pile of cash into my family business

...you know, with the oil boom we've got (that doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon) and us about to lift the ban on oil exports, the United States should apply for OPEC membership. Just to see the look on the world's faces.

dragonchild:vudutek: Should 3 mil unemployed all move there now? Not that they can afford to, but what will happen to ND if they did?What's basically happening there now. . . a full-blown gouging by property owners in the state. Last I heard, rent in San Francisco is cheaper than Williston, and while I don't blame anyone for being a capitalist, they passed laws preventing anyone from squatting to save money so this isn't capitalist -- it's cronyist. At least we now know the whole "North Dakotans are the classiest people in the country" is so much bunk; when given the opportunity they're as slummy as the worst in the Big Apple. Which isn't to say one is worse than the other; just that people suck, and it's nice to see delusions get blown up.

Ugh, I face palm when I read stuff like this. Some of those people taking jobs up there are going from either not being able to find employment or for lack of a degree aren't easily placed in jobs where they can make much over minimum wage. These people made a conscious decision that making 6 figures or damn near close to it is better than being unemployed or scraping by on 35K a year.

What do you think is going to happen when 50K people try and find a place to sleep around a town that had vacant housing for probably only 2 or 3 hundred people prior to the boom? Housing doesn't grow on trees, and to get developers to fast track housing in an area that is not a travel destination like Hawaii, you better believe they need to increase rents.

You seemingly think in order to prove people in North Dakota are actually "classier" they need to allow unfettered squatting and provide free housing to everyone? Wether or not they are classier or not is not going to be ascertained by rental prices rising in a population boom in an area with a sever housing shortage.

If it's anything like the Sable Island oil refinery they promise to hire local and bring lower gas prices to everyone when trying to get permission, but after the project is underway import all their workers and forget all about promising lower gas prices.

Alonjar:Dirty J1: This is sadly true, that's why the US has avoided tapping into our own reserves. People think it will make gas prices lower but it's not the case. OPEC will see what we are doing and simply restrict the amount of oil they supply to offset what we are getting from our reserves, making prices relatively equal. At least thats how it was explained to me, I may be missing some key points somewhere.

You've got the right idea, except that oil producing nations these days wont really cut back on supply because that means lower revenues, and they are addicted to that money. When you've got your national budget running off a set amount, you cant just cut back 25% without farking over your own country.

Its why OPEC has actually lost a lot of its power in the last decade or two. Places like Saudi Arabia and Venezuela dont actually abide by OPEC guidelines anymore.

True, but companies that produce oil kind of have the world by the balls and can raise their prices at their own will in order to offset a decrease in production. It's because the world relies on petroleum products for literally everything and cant just stop buying them. They will just grit their teeth and open their wallets a little more.

Snarfangel:MaudlinMutantMollusk: Only an idiot would believe that all that "Drill, baby, drill" bullsh*t was about anything other than making fast money, and any claims of lowering prices were baldfaced lies

If those are baldfaced lies, there will be hell toupee.

you say there will be hell toupee, but it sounds like (hair)lip service

If it's anything like the Sable Island oil refinery they promise to hire local and bring lower gas prices to everyone when trying to get permission, but after the project is underway import all their workers and forget all about promising lower gas prices.

And i wouldn't be surprised at all if in the case of North Dakota and the other places they're pretending the workers they import from other places are jobs created in the community.

Gold rush towns of the American West had plenty of jobs also. At least for a little while.

I have been spending a fair amount of time in WY and ND for work related to the energy boom.

It is a little sad to see the staff of a newly built hotel talking optimistically about the bright economic future ahead of them when across the decrepit shuttered wreck of the hotel built during the last energy boom is sitting right across the street. At least that is the way it is playing out in WY. The energy boom is new to North Dakota and parts of it increasingly resemble the less savory parts of Bartertown. Eastern Montana should be watching very closely.