..,methodism, catholicism, whatever, look Dubya I've gotta tell ya it'll make no difference - you'll still be a war criminal because you're still not allowed to go around bombing and killing people for no good reason.<br><br>So the Pope took Dubya on a tour around the mediaeval St John's Tower and Vatican gardens- big deal, they're just being polite. I happen to recall that Pope John Paul II told Dubya not to bomb Iraq and he took absolutely no notice of it. If he converts to catholicism the first thing he'll have to do is confess his sins for all the needless pain and suffering he caused by breaking that particular edict but whether he converts or not his crimes are irreversible and will remain a scar upon the conscience of mankind for ever, especially his conscience.<br><br>km<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>So the Pope took Dubya on a tour around the mediaeval St John's Tower and Vatican gardens- big deal, they're just being polite.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Not just being polite, it's one of his tenets. The Pope is not judgmental toward those that don't think his way, I can understand how the concept confuses you.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Not just being polite, it's one of his tenets. The Pope is not judgmental toward those that don't think his way...<p><hr></blockquote><p>One of the tenets that Dubya is entitled to view St John's Tower? I'd love to see that - have you got the text?<br><br>Not judgmental? Ah, I see what you mean... they used not to be judgmental about a few things but now they are. They weren't judgmental about sexual abuse by priests for example and then apologised when all of a sudden they realised that they should have been judgmental. They've always been judgmental about murder because one of the 10 Commandments is that "though shalt not kill". <br><br>km<br><br><br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>One of the tenets that Dubya is entitled to view St John's Tower? I'd love to see that - have you got the text?<p><hr></blockquote><p>From what twisted loom do you spin this stuff? LOL. Every discussion is a "kitchen sinker" with you. Try and focus son, I was only making a point about the Pope not being judgmental, and saying maybe you should try some of the same. I don't care to debate the whole Catholic religion and its history.<br><br>Every barrister wishes *they* were the one behind the bench banging the gavel, huh? <br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I was only making a point about the Pope not being judgmental<p><hr></blockquote><p>I know you were, and I was making the point that you were mistaken. The Pope is always judgmental about that which the Church considers morally wrong. I think you're getting confused between being non-judgmental and the Church's stance on the forgiveness of sin which of course does not negate its judgment of what is right and wrong. <br><br>km<br><br>

About "that which the the Church considers morally wrong," absolutely. Wouldn't be a church otherwise. However, about people, there is no judgment unless the person is in the confession. Even the Inquisition did not attend to non-Christians. Nowadays, having accepted that Protestants are not heretics, just mistaken, the Catholic Church does not meddle with Protestant individuals, like Dubya or Liz II.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>morally wrong, absolutely... about people, there is no judgment unless the person is in the confession<p><hr></blockquote><p> Well there was a judgment that bombing Iraq would be morally wrong and I think we all know by now (cough) who was responsible for that, My point however was that a person can't be separated from his crimes and that Dubya would remain a war criminal whether he converted to catholicism or not. I couldn't give a monkey's arse what the Vatican thinks although I happen to know that it too considers him to be a criminal.<br><br>km<br><br>

The judgment was about the act. At no time did the Church issue a fatwa against Bush or Blair or any of the other jerks. That's something that your Parliament, our Congress should have done.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>

Well they didn't issue a fatwa - they just told 'em not to do it because it would be an immoral and illegal act of terror and when the silly sods went ahead and did it anyway Church leaders accused 'em of moral surrender. It wasn't just the Vatican but pretty much the whole Church that took that view. If a war is immoral and illegal it follows that those responsible have acted imnorally and illegally part of which is for the Church to condemn and part of which is for the courts. We've had the Church bit now its up to law enforcement. <br><br>km<br><br>

During the 2004 campaign, a few Catholic bishops issued a fatwa against Kerry and said they wouldn't give him communion because of his pro-choice policy! As for the slaughter in Iraq, they were not overly concerned about it---unless perhaps their handwringing over that was overlooked by the media (but I don't think so).<br><br>

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