If the children of world leaders can have armed security for their school, why can't mine?

You are a world leader and your children are prime targets for kidnap?

comm wrote:

You have something against cops and security guards, ttompatz? Or do you think that training as a teacher and training as armed security are mutually exclusive?

I do and in my humble opinion only an American or an idiot would think otherwise (NOT saying Americans are idiots... but being an American or an idiot are also not mutually exclusive either. )

Guns and guards are NOT conducive to a good learning environment.
Something IS wrong in America and the gun lobby isn't doing anything to make it better.

visitorq wrote:

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iv) thousands of children are shot and killed EACH YEAR in the country
and

Thousands of children each year? What nonsense are you posting? You are so off base with this totally made-up "statistic" of yours it's ridiculous.

US department of justice wrote:

In 1999, about 1,800 juveniles (a rate of
2.6 per 100,000) were victims of homicide in the United States. This rate is
substantially higher than that of any other developed country.

Statistical Assessment Service wrote:

The most recent statistical data available on child homicide rates indicated that the U.S. had the highest infant-child homicide rate  four times as high  as all other Western nations surveyed, at 4.1 children per 100,000.

about 160% of what they were in 1999.

Armed guards for schools - train teachers as assault forces.
Killing kids at rates 4x faster than any other civilized nation on earth.

If the children of world leaders can have armed security for their school, why can't mine?

You are a world leader and your children are prime targets for kidnap

So only world leaders get to use guns to protect their children from getting kidnapped? How elitist and cruel of you. I guess you don't care about the children of regular people.

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I do and in my humble opinion only an American or an idiot would think otherwise (NOT saying Americans are idiots... but being an American or an idiot are also not mutually exclusive either. )

Asinine. So basically a smart American could "think otherwise", but anyone from another country would automatically be an "idiot"?? Wow, what sound reasoning you have there (not)...

Quote:

Guns and guards are NOT conducive to a good learning environment.
Something IS wrong in America and the gun lobby isn't doing anything to make it better.

Being disarmed and defenseless and encouraging mass shootings in schools (since all the killers know they are gun-free zones) isn't conducive to a good learning environment either.

Quote:

visitorq wrote:

Quote:

iv) thousands of children are shot and killed EACH YEAR in the country
and

Thousands of children each year? What nonsense are you posting? You are so off base with this totally made-up "statistic" of yours it's ridiculous.

US department of justice wrote:

In 1999, about 1,800 juveniles (a rate of
2.6 per 100,000) were victims of homicide in the United States. This rate is
substantially higher than that of any other developed country.

Statistical Assessment Service wrote:

The most recent statistical data available on child homicide rates indicated that the U.S. had the highest infant-child homicide rate  four times as high  as all other Western nations surveyed, at 4.1 children per 100,000.

You are completely out to lunch. How many of those deaths were caused by guns? Hm? I'll give you hint: it's maybe like a hundred or so. Nowhere near the "thousands each year" that you claimed (maybe if you weren't so 'trigger happy' with your bogus statistics, you wouldn't have made that obvious error)...

Quote:

Armed guards for schools - train teachers as assault forces.
Killing kids at rates 4x faster than any other civilized nation on earth.

(The Swiss aren't in the same league. Every male is a member of their military and subject to the military system in regards to their guns).

Which is similar to what you'd see in America if the spirit of the Second Amendment were taken seriously: a citizen militia defense force where gun ownership was a highly regulated means to a greater collective end, allowing the nation to do without a permanent, professional standing army.

(The Swiss aren't in the same league. Every male is a member of their military and subject to the military system in regards to their guns).

Beside the point. The point is that they have guns everywhere and are safer than most other countries that have tight gun control. Looks like your whole theory about guns being the source of all evil in the world is total bunk.

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You must be right and the other civilized countries must certainly be wrong.

Highest number of violent crimes per capita in the world.
Highest murder rates in the world.
Highest infant/child murder rates in the world...

and they really haven't figured it out yet.

More of your ridiculous nonsense. Highest murder rates in the world!? Highest violent crimes per capita!? I guess you've never been to Mexico, Brazil, or Russia (all of which have tight gun control laws).

Over 40 thousand people were murdered in Brazil in 2011, and over 27 thousand in Mexico. And you're claiming the US has the highest murder rate in the world???

Criminals kill people. Guns allow us to defend ourselves from criminals. It's called common sense (and not being a helpless jellyfish who needs to call 9-11 if ever there's a problem, in which case you'll be dead or badly hurt long before the police arrive).

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Time to put up the fences and keep the Americans out until they become civilized people.

Now you're advocating laying siege to the United States? Wow, you are aggressive, aren't you?

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Damn the bubbles - full speed ahead on the guns.

Nothing against bubbles, but yes, full speed ahead with the guns. More guns in the hands of good people = a safer, more civilized society. Just ask the people living in Chicago, the murder capital of the US (basically run by mafia) where civilians are unfortunately not allowed to carry handguns. If only they were...

Poking in to say that even as a gun nut, I think FOX is right to say the point is to make security a collective endeavor by the people. Police, military, the whole shebang should be citizen militias with small cadres of pros to guide and train them.

Libertarian thought is about non-coercion, but citizen militias are both volunteer and socially oriented.

The current climate of military style policing, and mercenary armies are not good for anything. Bring back militias!

Time to put up the fences and keep the Americans out until they become civilized people.

Now you're advocating laying siege to the United States? Wow, you are aggressive, aren't you?

No. To lay siege would be to blockade the murderous Americans into their own country. That would result in nothing more than a large temper tantrum and their attempts to blow things up and shoot their way out.

I advocate putting up fences to keep them away from, out of, excluded from the rest of the civilized world with their 19th century, old world, cowboy ideals.

They are free to go play in Mexico, Brazil or the rest of the 3rd world where they belong and where arguments (whether at the personal level or at the national level) are settled by force rather than dialogue.

UNODC wrote:

The UNODC made a study in 2012 that includes most countries of the world. The following lists show only the most recent data. Intentional homicide in this case is defined as unlawful death purposefully inflicted on a person by another person.

Highest number of violent crimes per capita in the world.
Highest murder rates in the world.
Highest infant/child murder rates in the world...

Really?
How many articles do we have to post showing much of Europe (particularly the UK) has a higher rate of violent crime than the U.S. for you to get it?
Obviously not the highest murder rates in the world. And I'm not sure that South Americans and Africans would appreciate being called "uncivilized" if you decide to move the goal posts on that one.
And if you can prove firearms are used in the majority of infant murders in the U.S. I will buy you a coke.

Fox wrote:

comm wrote:

and you're still adamantly opposed to having trained, armed individuals in schools...

How is, "You can have it if you pay for it," adamant opposition? Fund a whole swat team out of your school district's budget if you like. Reap the benefits of local governance. How much less opposing can I be here?

Perfect. I'm sure there are plenty of teachers eagerly awaiting permission to train to be armed in their schools. Now if only we can get the laws changed to accommodate our agreed position.

In Switzerland, soldiers are issued assault rifles (but not ammunition) which they keep at home. A permit is required to buy a gun which is not used for military service. In order to obtain a permit, a person must must pass a background check and not have a history of mental illness. A permit to carry a loaded weapon in public is usually only issued to people in security related occupations. Overall, it sounds better than the system in the USA. At least they try to keep guns out of the wrong hands. You can't just walk into a gun show and buy a firearm no questions asked.

The report calculates a 'punitivity ratio' by contrasting the number of people convicted in a year with the number of prisoners in jail as a result of a court sentence. (That is, the figure includes only prisoners sentenced to jail, not those on remand; and it includes prisoners sentenced in earlier years to long terms of imprisonment.)

There might be more Saturday night drunken brawls in the UK but the US still rates with the rest of the 3rd world (and well behind the rest of the OECD) for other, more violent crimes.

I'll take government raw data over Fox news anytime.

I have changed my mind about gun control in the USA. EVERY man, woman and child should own an assault rifle, be taught how to kill and be issued 100 rounds of ammunition. They should be free to carry them anywhere and everywhere on US soil.

Perhaps in 50 years the problem will be self solving and the rest of the civilized world can re-admit those civilized souls who are left.

After controlling for these characteristics, we found that keeping a gun in the home was strongly and independently associated with an increased risk of homicide (adjusted odds ratio, 2.7; 95 percent confidence interval, 1.6 to 4.4). Virtually all of this risk involved homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199310073291506

So owning a gun almost triples the risk that someone in your family will be murdered. It is irresponsible to endanger your family like that.