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Okay I work as an independent contractor for studio and we have had a few snow days that I have not been paid for in my monthly check. however, when I looked at the studio policy, they do not reimburse the students for snow days. So I thought I should be paid for them otherwise, the studio is basically taking the money for my students, correct? I brought this up to the owner (we are the only two who teach in his studio) so it was a little awkward. Anyway he told me that they can make the lessons up at the end of the school year and at that point he would pay me for them. So, lots of times I know that the students do not make the lessons up, they forget about it and school is out and they take the summer off. In which case, I won't get paid and he keeps the money for my students for the snow days. It seems unfair to me. Anyone else work as an I.C. and had this situation? I mean I realize it is his studio and he does the advertising, and he lets me teach there, but they are my students. Am I being unreasonable for feeling cheated?

It just depends on the details of your agreement. What does your agreement with the owner say about lesson cancellations?

As an independent contractor, you have the right to control how you do the work you've been contracted to do, but you don't have the right to control (or expect) the owner to conduct his business a certain way.

You're only cheated if the owner doesn't abide by the agreement you both signed.

I've worked as an independent contractor several times, and it's very important to understand the terms of the agreements. There are a lot of different types of business arrangements.

As for whether or not it's reasonable for you to feel cheated, I don't think so, as long as the owner is operating within the terms of the agreement.

Keep in mind that if the business owner gave you the money for the lessons, from his point of view, he's still having to pay the utility bill and rent even though no work is being done at the studio. Also, from his point of view, if you believed that you should be paid for cancelled lessons, then you should have asked for that before signing the agreement.

Also, you should actively encourage the students to make up those lessons. Don't wait for them to ask. Then hold the owner to his word that he'll pay you for the made up lessons.

Being an independent contractor can be a great way to do business. Independent contractors are usually given a lot of freedom and flexibility in how they do their job. But you have to be very careful about how the agreements are worded. When you sign an agreement, you are in effect telling the owner that you believe the terms of the agreement are fair.

Unfortunately, there's a lot of variability in the quality of agreements written by studio owners. Some owners have a lot of experience and do business in places where they have to write good agreements to attract high quality teachers and clients. Others may lack experience or are able to find teachers who will sign anything, in which case the agreements can be vague and/or heavily favor the studio owner.

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"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Our piano teacher after missing a lesson (we had a hard winter - for the first time illness was hard and suddenly we had missed lessons), would have a regular next lesson and then say, Next week we will do an hour so you make up the missed lesson. Or another time she asked if she could have her lesson and another lesson the next day. Don't wait until the end of the session.

Kreisler makes excellent points. I work as an independent contractor for a music store, and if the store closes due to weather emergencies, the family is credited, and the teacher does not get paid. The fact that there are only 2 teachers in the store could account for the owner feeling entitled to still keep your fee as part of his overhead fees, however, in a store as large as the one I teach in, with over a dozen teachers working 7 days with full schedules, that IMO would be unfair for the employer to keep 8 teachers' pay (at a full day each), which could amount to as much as 120 lessons.

I should add that my wife has been looking for a job recently, and in her field (healthcare), it's expected that a contract be looked at by a third party. We discovered that there are entire companies who do nothing but review healthcare employment contracts.

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Thank you for all the feedback. Basically, we are both new at this. We didn't put anything in the contract about snow days. We are learning as we go here. But, Maggiegirl, I totally agree that I should have them make up the lesson before the session ends otherwise he will be making a lot of money off of me.

No, I don't think you are being unreasonable. As you stated in your original post, the studio does not reimburse the students, so you should be entitled to your percentage of those fees, just as the studio is entitled to theirs.

Why does their rent and running costs even come into it? What changes in this regard, just because the student doesn't turn up? Why is it different to any other student cancellation?

As you stated in your original post, the studio does not reimburse the students, so you should be entitled to your percentage of those fees, just as the studio is entitled to theirs.

Why is she entitled to those fees? It's not spelled out in the agreement, and she didn't do any work. Legally, she's not entitled to anything. (Ethically, it may be a problem, but that's something to be worked out with the owner.)

Originally Posted By: Ben Crosland

Why does their rent and running costs even come into it? What changes in this regard, just because the student doesn't turn up? Why is it different to any other student cancellation?

Or have I missed something?

The rent and running costs come into it because the owner still has to pay rent but the teacher didn't have to do work.

I'm not saying the business owner is right, there are a lot of ways to manage one's business. But if a teacher feels they are entitled to something, then they should put it *in a contract.* That's what contracts are for - they spell out what each party is responsible for and entitled to, so that there are no misunderstandings later on.

This situation has two sides, both of which are totally 100% valid:

1) The teacher reserved that time in her schedule and believes she should be paid for having been available and prepared for that lesson.

2) The business owner incurred the same overhead but the work was not done - why pay someone who didn't have to show up for work? Wal-Mart doesn't pay people who don't show up (for whatever reason), so why should he? In addition, he may have had the extra expense of having the parking lot shoveled, so the overhead may have actually gone up!

In the business owner's mind, he's paying the teacher for one thing: Providing a Service. If she doesn't punch the clock and do that service, why pay her?

In the teacher's mind, she's being compensated for her expertise and availability, and that doesn't change when someone doesn't show.

The teacher is like the cable company - they need to be paid for the availability and quality of the service whether the TV is on or not.

The owner is like a manager at a McDonald's. His employees only get paid when they show up and do the work.

In this case, both parties need to come to an agreement and put it in writing, otherwise things could get really ugly. What if there's a particularly bad year and a lot of cancellations occur? That could put significant financial strain on the teacher. Or what if a client refuses to pay but the business owner still has to pay the teacher for lessons given? Do they bear full responsibility for the loss, or can they pass the loss on to the teacher? (In other words, the opposite of this situation. In this situation, the client pays but doesn't get a lesson. What happens if the client gets a lesson but doesn't pay? Is the teacher still compensated for the work, or do they share a percentage of the loss just as they share a percentage of the profits when times are good?)

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Please do not let any of my comments adversely affect your relationship,(easy for me to say, I know) you still have your rent to pay and need to put food on your table.

Also I wish to make it clear that I'm not saying in this case the employer is acting in a wrong manner.

Furthermore, I do not have the full facts and have made several assumptions.

All my opinion.......

If you incurred expense to go to the studio and turned up for the lessons I can't see why you shouldn't be paid, after all, fair's fair, a saying many have forgotten.

If fair is fair, by default, unfair is unfair and being treated unfairly by any employer makes that employer unethical, in my opinion.

But why not look around (quietly) for another job, ASAP?

When you leave abide by the terms of the, (ahem) "agreement" though.

At least you have learned the lesson, you'll know better next time. I think you are being cheated no matter what the agreement says, an agreement can be unfair just as a person can be, and an unfair agreement is a cheat, it simply isn't honest enough to admit it, neither is the person who makes it, surprise, surprise.

Three months of snow, you don't get paid, he does..... nice.....

Try to get paid for lessons you don't give and hear him squeal, before he sacks you, or tries to prosecute you for fraud!!

Seems totally unfair to me, you still have your bills to pay, just as he does.My final assumption, the law in more interested in the rights of the wealthy than the rights of the poor, anywhere in the world.

Well, my perspective comes from when I worked at a studio for many years, except in my case I was self-employed: the students paid me, and I agreed to pay a percentage of the fees as rent.

So, in a similar situation, I simply would have paid the studio their rent as normal. Same for any cancellation.

This is what I don't understand about the OP's case, and for which I still don't see a satisfactory explanation; namely, why is this different from any other cancellations by the student?

It doesn't make sense to cite "expenses" incurred by the studio, as they have already stated that the teacher will get paid if they teach the catch-up lesson at any point.

Regarding the question Kreisler posed about what would happen if the client refused to pay:

Yes, this is an interesting one! In my (former) case, we both would have lost out. No fees for me, no rent for him. It wasn't written into a contract, but it was a given that I simply pay a percentage of all fees taken.

However, when fees are paid in advance, this is very unlikely to happen.

The agreement I have with my studio is much the same. I'm responsible for collecting all fees and simply pay rent for the studio. There are certain rules I have to abide by, but I'm allowed to charge and bill however I like. (Which for me means collecting monthly tuition in advance and having my own cancellation/make-up policy.)

The last community music school I worked for did things differently, but was better than the situation pianogirl is in. It was run by someone who had 20 years experience running a successful school, and the agreement I signed with him was a very detailed and equitable document. (For teachers working more than 20 hours a week, he even offered medical and retirement benefits.) There were some important protections for him (a non-compete clause for example), but there were some perks as well (access to an office assistant, a copy/fax machine, and free use of their performance space.)

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

Ben Crosland, in answer to your questions as to why it is different from any other cancellation, I think it is different because the studio is closed and the student has no choice but to miss it. They are not choosing it for themselves. And I realize I did not have to drive there and he does also pay all the rent and other costs for the building so it is up to him and we did not put anything in our contract about what we would do for snow days. He just told me that I would be paid if the students decided not to show up.

In the near future I believe we will be re-writing the terms of our contract as I just also found out that he is charging students way more than I he told me he was and he is making $9 more per lesson for my students than I am. Very disappointed to find this out. I thought he was a very honest person. No sure if I will be teaching there much longer. When we sat down to talk about what I would be making, he told me that he charges $21 per hour, and that he would pay me $18 per hour, so that the would only take $3 per hour as a fee. Then a few months later, I asked him what his monthly fee was for his students so I could let interested prospects know and he told me he charges $84 per month! He added that the monthly fee includes $50 per year for recitals, and a $25 registration fee, but even if he prorates that extra $75 for the 9 month school year, that would not make the monthly payment that much more . So he was basically caught in his lie. Why can't people just be honest?

He said he charges $21/hour, then changed his story to say that he charges $42/hour??? (I assume these are half hour lessons?)

Send me a PM if you want. I know some of the piano faculty at UNL who might be interested in letting people know about shady piano teaching practices in the area.

_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

I may be wrong, but it strikes me that the dilemma may have been caused because the studio owner doesn't insist on full payment in advance from all students. So come the snows, the students miss lessons which they may not yet have paid for.

If so, he doesn't want to pay a teacher with money he doesn't have already in his pocket - and money moreover which he may not see at all, since there may not be time at the end of the spring to make up the snow day lessons.

If I'm right, no one is at fault here, and yet both teacher and studio owner lose income due to vague or loose business practices. If I'm wrong - and the owner already has his snow day tuition in hand - then pianogirl should be paid now, but should teach those make-up lessons now, not in June. If students don't want them, they are forfeited.

****Pianogirl, your explanation of teaching fees at this school is unclear to us.Tell us again, please.

Honestly, I think I am just going to end this post here until I talk about this with him because I am about at confused as the rest of you. But just to clarify, he told me that he charges $21 per HOUR, which comes out to $10.50 per lesson. But it looks as though he charges that per half hour lesson. At first I thought I just misunderstood him, but he is only paying me $18 per HOUR so I think he was being dishonest about what he charges so I wouldnt' know how much money he was making off of me or something. Cuz I get $9 per 30 minute lesson which is $36 a month per student. He writes me a check monthly.

So, if he is charging them $84 per month, then according to my calculations, he is making $13 per lesson (this number is minus the extra $8 per month he is charging them for the recital fees and registration fee). So I guess to me, he should not be making more money off of my students than I am. But I was okay with the $9 per hour because that is close to what I was charging my other students I teach at home(yes I know I have low fees as I have only been teaching a year and a half or so and I don't have a college degree.)

Anyway, I am about as confused as all of you cuz I dont' understand why he just didn't tell me exactly what he charged for a monthly fee in the beginning. Now it feels very awkward that I know he was not completely honest with me.

Anyway, I am about as confused as all of you cuz I dont' understand why he just didn't tell me exactly what he charged for a monthly fee in the beginning. Now it feels very awkward that I know he was not completely honest with me.

I don't see why what he charges is relevant, or even any of your business.

You made a deal for $18 per hour. You must have felt at the time that this was fair, and that you were worth $18 per hour. He's paying you $18 per hour per the agreement, so you're not being cheated.

But you've started to feel you should be paid more. That seems to be a separate complaint from the snow day disagreement, right? The snow day problem is whether you should be paid when you didn't teach. The per hour problem is whether $18 is enough, if the owner makes X amount.

I think you should be paid more too. But not because he makes more than you knew about. What he makes, or doesn't make, doesn't affect the work you do for him.

Charge more because you're worth it. Go back in and tell him you want $25 per hour, because your skills have increased and you do a good job. If he agrees, he'll give it to you. Or he'll counteroffer $21. Or he'll turn you down, and you now know what you're worth to him. Go find out what you're worth to somebody else. But don't accuse him of being dishonest, or bring up how much the students pay. That will eliminate your chance of getting a raise.

TimR, I believe it was my business to know what he charges as I directly asked him during our first meeting. I have never lied to anyone about what I charge - why should anyone? Also, when people ask me where I teach and what he charges monthly I need to be able to tell them the correct amount. I think since he was doing all the advertising, he never thought he would have to disclose that to me or something. I can't tell prospective student "oh I charge $9 per lesson cuz then he is gonna charge them $84 per month!" Whatever, it is not something I am going to bring up to him cuz like you said TimR, I agreed to the $18 per hour. But when you mislead someone it strains a business relationship. That is my main point. Just venting on here.

So, if he is charging them $84 per month, then according to my calculations, he is making $13 per lesson (this number is minus the extra $8 per month he is charging them for the recital fees and registration fee). So I guess to me, he should not be making more money off of my students than I am. But I was okay with the $9 per hour because that is close to what I was charging my other students I teach at home(yes I know I have low fees as I have only been teaching a year and a half or so and I don't have a college degree.)

Is that a normal rate for your area? I wish *my* lessons were $21/hour -- but I'll happily continue charging my own students twice that much. BTW -- I've only been teaching 2 years and don't have a music degree either.

But just to clarify, he told me that he charges $21 per HOUR, which comes out to $10.50 per lesson. But it looks as though he charges that per half hour lesson. At first I thought I just misunderstood him, but he is only paying me $18 per HOUR so I think he was being dishonest about what he charges so I wouldnt' know how much money he was making off of me or something.

Or, possibly there's another explanation.

You simply misheard him, and there was no attempt to deceive.

If he is collecting $21 an hour, and paying you $18, I'm not sure the $3 that's left is enough to cover other business expenses (rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, fees, etc.)

If he is collecting $21 an hour, and paying you $18, I'm not sure the $3 that's left is enough to cover other business expenses (rent, utilities, insurance, taxes, fees, etc.)

These were my thoughts, too. I suspect a misunderstanding in this case, rather than a deliberate attempt to deceive you.

The problem is, that you were under the mistaken impression that you were getting 6/7ths of the fees, which would indeed be a very good cut - hint: the teacher's cut will *never* be that good at any music school/studio, anywhere in the world, ever! And, in fact, you don't want it to be, because any business that ran at that sort of margin wouldn't last more than a few months

To call this a strained relationship seems accurate. But as Tim suggests, it might only be strained in one direction.

Pianogirl, why not just ask one of your students (or parents, if they are kids) how much they pay for tuition? If this is a genuine music school, open for business and advertising for more students, tuition can hardly be a dark secret.

The dark secret at a music school is the split between owner and teacher.

Hi Pianogirl, we have not hear back from you. Is my table above sounds correct to you?So you think you are working with an unethical piano store owner, is that right? Have you have chance to Kriesler since he knows someone who is interest to know about shady piano teaching practices? Is everything okay?