It's been 37 years since The Village People's hit song In the Navy associated the armed service with an acceptance of homosexuality.
It's been 38 since one of the gay movement's trailblazers, Harvey Milk, was gunned down at San Francisco city hall by fellow city supervisor Dan White.
Now the two get to hook up, with the news …

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Ignorance + Righteous indignation =

Re: Ignorance + Righteous indignation =

They weren't tempted to put a model boat in the picture? Oh well.

Reminds me of the time my uncle, a native Gaelic speaker had an awesome crosstalk conversation with some relatives about putting a "liner in his pond". After a couple of days, he gets presented with something suitably naval from the toyshop ....

Re: What about Rosemary?

The Secretary can rely on many sources to help him reach his decisions. Each year, the Naval Historical Center compiles primary and alternate ship name recommendations and forwards these to the Chief of Naval Operations by way of the chain of command.

Destroyers and smaller: famous seamen and Marines, persons having to do with the Navy. Examples: Reuben James, Ward, Faragut, Perry.

Submarines: Fish and other things to do with the sea. Examples: Wahoo, Triton, Archerfish, Swordfish.

Oilers and such: Rivers.

Ammunition ships: Volcanoes and explosives.

Things started changing in the 1960s. A very large number of ships were built with the 'destroyer' designation, and so had names like Leahy. It was subsequently noticed that at 8,000 tons plus, they were kinda big to be destroyers and were re-categorized as cruisers, but kept the name. Later on, several 'destroyers' were in the process of being built for the Imperial Iranian Navy and were grabbed up by the USN after the Iranian Revolution, and re-classed as the 'Dead Admiral' class cruisers, the Kidd class. (This was the second ship named for Isaac Kidd, blown up aboard Arizona 7 Dec 1941. There is currently a third Kidd, an Arleigh Burke destroyer. Note that the Arleigh Burke ships at 9,000 tons plus are larger than the Leahys, but are still considered to be destroyers. So far, anyway.) Ballistic missile submarines were named for 'famous Americans' or foreigners in American service, including Lafayette, who might have felt honored, and Tecumseh, who probably wouldn't have liked it any more than a lot of other things that palefaces did. With cruisers no longer hogging the city names, attack submarines were named for cities. Memorably, USS Corpus Christi was renamed USS City of Corpus Christi after some religious nuts objected. Apparently said religious nuts don't know the full name of what is now known as 'Los Angeles' and who it was named for, as Corpus Christi was a Los Angeles class attack sub... With no more battleships to hog the state names, ballistic missile subs got state names. State names have now been shifted to attack subs. Some Ohio class ballistic missile subs have been converted into _guided_ missile subs, and carry very large numbers of Tomahawks instead of the 24 Trident missiles they were designed for. (Seven Toms for every Trident) Carriers are now named for admirals, (Nimitz) and presidents (John F.. Kennedy; the last non-nuclear American carrier was JFK, CV-67. The second Gerald Ford class carrier will be JFK, CVN-79) and famous carriers (thanks to Enterprise CV-6, there will always be an Enterprise in the US Navy. The third Gerry Ford is Enterprise CVN-80. Note that there is a George H.W. Bush; Bush the elder flew for the USN in WWII. There is not a George W. Bush and probably never will be. USS Jimmy Carter is a Seawolf class attack sub. Jimmy was a submariner. USS Jimmy Carter specializes in delivering SEAL teams.) Amphibious warfare ships were named for Marines and Marine battles (Hue, Iwo Jima, Peliku, Belleau Wood...) and are now named for famous ships (America, Hornet, Wasp... There will always be a Hornet, a Wasp, a Yorktown in the USN...) and some cruisers are named for major battles (Antietam, Leyte, Anzio...). Destroyers, even very large ones, are again named for famous seamen and people who did something for the Navy. Including, of course Grace Hopper.

Funny thing

Re: Funny thing

In the Battle off Samar a couple of US destroyers with 5" guns took on several Japanese battleships and cruisers and scored a large number of hits, seriously impeding their opponents' ability attack the six US carriers nearby. It did help that the big battleship shells were just passing right thru the destroyers without exploding.

Re: Funny thing

Those would be the only destroyers ever built using no armour plate whatsoever, the idea being that the less weight the more speed. It also helped that several of the Japanese cruisers were chronically over gunned and were mainly a danger to themselves (replacing 6" twin gunhouses with 9" or triple 6" was in retrospect not the best Japanese idea).

If I remember rightly the Japanese units weren't fitted with ranging and targeting radars, which made them less effective. Even major fleet units like Kirishima lacked radar gunnery control.

The large calibre shells never hit anything hard enough to trigger the fuses and just punched (lots of) holes, oddly I don't remember any information on if the smaller Japanese calibres failed in the same way.

Re: Funny thing

Re: Funny thing

Those would be the only destroyers ever built using no armour plate whatsoever,

Not the case. They did have armour, but not enough to be noticed by a 300mm+ shell.

The problem of battleship and heavy cruiser main armament being overly optimized for battleship-to-battleship engagement and cruising through lesser ships without exploding is as old as the battleships themselves. It was observed in the Russian-Japanese war, it was a regular feature in WW1 with nearly all hits scored by the German Bayern class heavy cruisers on the Russian destroyer squadron at Moonzund being a "in-and-out" with the exemption of the hit on Grom where it did not explode, but hit the main boiler. It was a regular feature in WW2 engagements too.

Re: Funny thing

At Samar, most of them were old destroyer - some from the previous war - used as escort ships to provide cover for the landing beaches and the supporting vessels, especially against submarines and air attacks. Destroyers could have at most light armour to protect critical areas - no destroyer has ever being designed and armed for an artillery duel with a battleship or a even a cruiser.

The very corageous attack - one of the bravest of all times, given the enourmous disparity of forces -, using torpedoes and guns against the Japaneses ships, supported by the planes launched by the escort carriers which the destroyers were protecting, had the effect of hindering Kurita's fleet to easily attack and destroy it targets. Eventually, the loss of a couple of cruiser (and others damaged), the news that Nishimura fleet was destroyed (by Oldendorf's battleships force at Surigao), the risk of being attacked by larger forces (Halsey's, who fell into Ozawa's trap) led to Kurita's decision to retire.

The destroyers and their crews, anyway, paid an heavy toll. I don't know if some of those sailors had some important ships named after them. I believe they well deserve it. Far more than others... especially some presidents who did little to nothing.

When Winston Churchill was First Lord of the Admiralty, he wanted to name a battleship after William Pitt. He was dissuaded from doing so by the then First Sea Lord, who, thanks to his decades of experience in the RN (he'd been in uniform almost as long as Winnie Churchill had been alive...) and his extensive knowledge of le matelot d'Anglais and their way of finding scatological names for any ship, just knew what they'd call anything with 'Pitt' in its name.

HMS Oliver Cromwell

Winston also submitted (more than once) the name HMS Oliver Cromwell, which His Majesty (as was his prerogative) turned down. Winston felt that a great general should be honoured while the King felt that anyone who executed a king should not.

Gay influence on Navy

Actually, Milk was gunned down by EX-supervisor Dan While. While quit and then got mad because the mayor, George Moscone, wouldn't reinstate him. I think the two most telling facts about White's intent were (1) that he snuck into SF City Hall through a basement window, and (2) he reloaded after shooting Moscone and before shooting Milk.(I think I have the order right...it's been a while.) White later committed suicide.

He has become a very polarising figure. Those in the political left in the US have idolised him to the point of inventing a martyr, while those on the right have invented conspiracy theories in which he committed all manner of awful sex crimes which went unreported due to a cover-up operation by the state government and the media.

"He has become a very polarising figure. Those in the political left in the US have idolised him to the point of inventing a martyr, while those on the right have invented conspiracy theories in which he committed all manner of awful sex crimes which went unreported due to a cover-up operation by the state government and the media."

Pretty much the same as any other american figure with any sort of politics, then ?

Re: I am struggling to understand...

Re: I am struggling to understand...

I also think you will find that El Reg's commentards will enjoy any opportunity to slip in a double entendre or three, or make bad-taste joke where sex of any orientation (and preferably of all orientations) it connected with big machinery.

Re: I am struggling to understand...

They classify Silly con valley as SF,Alameda and Santa Clara county San mateo . At one point the US Census stretch it to include Marin County And Salano County (Screw you Vallejo is not Part of Silly con valley. ). Wait I just checked again the refined it again and this time SF is not in it .At one point the crazy people at wikki tried to include Stockton and lodi and Fairfield. At that point you might as well toss in Sacramento

Five-inch Naval Gun...

Re: Five-inch Naval Gun...

Actually condoms over guns is a very common practice. If done properly it is tight enough to stop dirt, water (and other fluids) from entering the barrel, but doesn't impede the projectile when shot through.

That's my coat, the one with the patented gun barrel protector (and other handy uses) prophylactic in the pocket.

Re: Left hand down a bit

Entering That Pantheon......

....of famous ships. Titanic, Poseidon, Thresher, Mayaquez, PT-109, Arizona, Indianapolis, Wasp......Lusitania. Need I go on? The name invites a torpedo attack like a red cape to a bull and the butt of jokes from all SEAMEN.

Re: What would Aubrey and Maturin say?

Re: What would Aubrey and Maturin say?

Why are ships called she?

“A ship is called a she because there is always a great deal of bustle around her; there is usually a gang of men about; she has a waist and stays; it takes a lot of paint to keep her good-looking; it is not the initial expense that breaks you, it is the upkeep; she can be all decked out; it takes an experienced man to handle her correctly; and without a man at the helm, she is absolutely uncontrollable. She shows her topsides, hides her bottom and, when coming into port, always heads for the buoys.”