Posted
by
timothy
on Tuesday December 13, 2011 @01:02PM
from the d'ya-call-in-sick? dept.

adeelarshad82 writes "Facebook launched an initiative that gives users who have expressed suicidal thoughts the option to connect directly with a crisis counselor via Facebook chat. Facebook doesn't troll the site in search of those who might be suicidal; with 800 million users who generate billions of posts, Facebook's algorithm could easily misinterpret comments. Instead, the new initiative is dependent on people speaking up when they feel a friend might be in danger."

It's one of those things where the massive size of Facebook can be used for real good. There are already existing hotlines but I doubt they work that well preventing suicides. While they are useful, they aren't shown to people exactly when they really need it. They might know about them, but there's no incentive to try them at those moments. So when Facebook asks it good moment, it could easily save many lifes. Since this still needs the user to agree, it can't be used for harassing people either. If it was automatic it would be stupid, but this way it's only useful.

Other than do I really want facebook to know about a mental history since they log everything... How long before they sell any of this info off or it gets scraped? I'll pass.

Just like with Google, most of Facebook's value comes from the data they own. They would be insane to sell that data to others. They may use it to match advertisers with people by using keywords, age and similar metrics, but they will never sell off the data because that is their most valuable asset.

Also, this option really doesn't change anything what Facebook knows about you. It presents you an option to discuss with professionals if you need help.

Also, this option really doesn't change anything what Facebook knows about you. It presents you an option to discuss with professionals if you need help.

Can't help but feel that people who are having genuine thoughts about suicide would be rather unlikely to care about updating their facebook status to reflect this. Given the way FB has consistently treated its userbase with greed and contempt, it's hard not to see this as a PR stunt wrapped around another data gold mining opportunity.

While it doesn't apply to all suicide cases, there's also those where the person has told about it has suicidal feelings just prior to it. There's been many news about such cases too regarding internet. Some person has announced widely that he or she is going to do an suicide on some site or video chat. In most of those cases people's only option has been to call the police and after they arrive, it's already too late. They don't have the experience and knowledge to talk to persons with such ideas. That's why FB jumping in and referring the person to talk to a professional should be a good thing.

You'd be surprised. I'm no expert on the matter, but as a former Army officer who had to serve in Iraq I've been through more than my share of suicide prevention training. It's an annual requirement normally, and I think we did it two or three extra times on deployment. While it's by no means universal, apparently most people who attempt suicide give warning ahead of time, often fairly explicit warning. Mostly they aren't taken seriously.

Well, you're wrong. See for instance this story [cnn.com] about a well-known case.

The 18-year-old Rutgers freshman killed himself after prosecutors say his roommate secretly recorded a video of Clementi kissing another man and posted it online. His final message on Facebook read, "Jumping off the gw bridge sorry."

...people who are having genuine thoughts about suicide would be rather unlikely to care about updating their facebook status

No. While they will never directly announce it, people who are severely depressed or in crisis -- especially young people -- will tend to put up updates that are hints to their states of mind. I've seen these come in the form of famous quotations that say something to the effect, "This is a cruel world". Sometimes it is just an unhappy face smiley. Sometimes it is a cryptic update that hints something is wrong but doesn't say what.

Fortunately, most people among my friends quickly respond to such updates. P

...they will never sell off the data because that is their most valuable asset

Because, of course, user data is a limited resource that is static and non-renewable.

Of course they sell it! Like bread, user data goes stale - people make new connections, gain new interests, move to new places, get new jobs - new new new! Sell the data today because tomorrow there will be more, and different data.

Also, this option really doesn't change anything what Facebook knows about you

Except that you're suicidal. I can count the number of insurance companies that aren't interested in buying THAT data on NO HANDS.

How many kids will be snatched up by their local flavor of child protective services when it becomes known that they spoke with a crisis counselor?

Except that you're suicidal. I can count the number of insurance companies that aren't interested in buying THAT data on NO HANDS.

Suicide doesn't matter to insurance companies. If you do an suicide, they're not going to pay anything anyway. Did you really think you could get some really high insurance and then do suicide to get your family cash?

This is correct -- I work for a life insurance company. Policies held for two years or more cannot be rescinded for any reason, because it is assumed people have a vested interest in their own life. This rule comes from the National Association of Insurance Commissioners, and has been adopted into state law in all 50 states.

Life insurance is surprisingly well regulated. It's pretty hard for a company to dispute that someone is dead, so nearly all claims are paid out. Even an honest mistake, such as miss

This. And it doesn't even have to be proof of suicidal thoughts. I once entered "mild depression" on a company health insurance application form. I was denied extended coverage even after my doctor wrote to clarify it was more social anxiety than depression. It didn't matter; my HR rep said that insurance companies will use ANY mental health issue listed as an excuse to deny extended coverage.

I'm not convinced of the effectiveness of their "sorted, categorized, and fine-tuned quite nicely for whomever is willing to pay for it" information to be honest. Among other things, Facebook seems convinced that I'm gay. The only thing in my entire profile that I can find which indicates that this might be the case is that I've "liked" the Human Right Campaign. I'm married, my spouse is a woman (noted in my profile, and cross noted in hers), I have one gay "friend", but he's not all that active... yet I

You don't want to get flagged because you typed "/wrist" in some game thread.

Note that it isn't automatic. It's only if people report it as such. And to counter trolling, it only presents you an option on what to do. There would be a case if it automatically transferred you to talk to someone, but it doesn't.

I know what "troll" means, and in this case they meant "trawl". I was wondering if I was wrong reading your definitions, but on further research I'm still correct. Trolling is fishing with a dragline (never heard of that before), while trawling is using a dragnet - which is what you figuratively do if you're searching through data.

In the case of saying how Facebook could troll, that was what I like to call a joke. Guess I should have used one of these:p

I disagree. Trolling is discriminatory. It is commonly used by sport fishermen. You select bait, lure, whatever that will appeal to the fish you want, put your line in the water, and slowly move around until you get a bite. Then, you bring the fish in and keep it if it the type you want.

Trawling is non-discriminatory. It is used by commercial fishermen. You drag a great big net behind your boat and it catches everything in it's path.

When. i think of trawling I think of fisnhng, or trawling a lake for dead bodies for example. You have to start off indiscriminately checking/catching every post (every bit of garbage at the bottom of the lake, or a bunch of dolphins as well as your fish) and then keep the ones that match your search, throwing the rest away.

I just wanted to point out that internet trolling is based on this definition. Trolling on the internet is tossing some bait out there and trying to get people to bite. A good troll will be taken seriously by enough people to make it funny to the troller (and amused bystanders).--JimFive

P.S. If your "never heard of that before" was sarcastic just ignore this entire comment.

It's one of those things where the massive size of Facebook can be used for real good. There are already existing hotlines but I doubt they work that well preventing suicides. While they are useful, they aren't shown to people exactly when they really need it. They might know about them, but there's no incentive to try them at those moments. So when Facebook asks it good moment, it could easily save many lifes. Since this still needs the user to agree, it can't be used for harassing people either. If it was automatic it would be stupid, but this way it's only useful.

So overall, really good option.

Good PR, which is something Facebook needs.

"I'm feeling very depressed."

"OK, let's start with why you are feeling depressed.

"Facebook has been spying on me and selling all my personal details, while the founder will be a billionaire, all I get it tonnes of spam and annoyances.

this is akin to medical info about yourself. once this is attached to your so-called 'perm record' (this phrase has new dark meaning, way beyond the fear it put on us in our school days) you'll never get it off (fully) and you can expect it to haunt you the rest of your life.

everything you do is 'recorded' in today's world. you have to think very carefully if you want this or that recorded about yourself.

this sounds like a really bad idea. then again, 100% of things from FB are ba

I agree but not sure if it will do any good.I do not think even friends are all that likely to really believe that a friend is going to actually go through with a suicide no matter how emo they are acting.And form what I have seen 50% of all high schoolers cut their wrists all the time so I could see either there being a lot of false positive or no understanding until it is too late.

But it is not like this is going to make it worse, seems like a worthy undertaking by FB.

I coach a college club team and have numerous of them added to my Facebook (in their own little partitioned group). 95% of the time they're being "depressed" it's just some song lyric. I hope there is a quick google lyrics search before deciding to suggest this service.

This single line should tell you exactly why there should be someone trying to prevent it. People aren't always thinking clearly and some problem they have at that exact moment might seem so overwhelming that only way to escape it is suicide, while it really isn't. It's only because that person at that moment thinks so. Most suicides are done out of nothing. I do understand if someone who really has pains and is ill wants to end his life, but that isn't it in majority of the cases. In most cases it's a situation that the person gets over with. That is, if there was someone who prevented him or her from suicide.

The reason suicide used to be frowned upon was because it was an easy way out of a shit life. Being an abused peasant in, oh, 1200 Europe was not fun. Without a dogmatic "No" to suicide, I'm sure societies would have had a harder time to develop. Now, it's frowned upon because suicide is a waste of invested resources, eminently preventable and generally not justified. Pretty much all suicide cases I'm aware have at their root abuse that results in poor coping mechanisms. Yes, this includes the morons who fi

You know what, as I started reading your post, I felt "fuck yeah, I'm not the only idiot who thinks this way". Then, your words reminded me of Carlin. Then you meta-quoted him. Thank you for being awesome.

Also, from Carlin, sort of on the subject (Anorexia, a kind of slow suicide, I guess).

I knew I would get modded troll for it, but like Carlin I feel a need to express my non-PC opinions. You don't break down politically correct boundaries by keeping quiet about it. I also knew someone out there would share my opinion and appreciate it. Thanks.

I love showing Carlin stand-ups to my ultra-PC friends. They always act like he's just joking about this shit, that he doesn't really mean it. They laugh because they think it's absurdly untrue. I laugh because I think it's absurdly true.

As Carlin used to say, "It's my job to think about this kind of things". And when you are among the few who can actually see behind the curtain of falsehood and PC bullshit, it becomes your duty to speak up. It gets me in trouble more often than I'd like, and gets me more enemies than friends, but the few friends it brings are the real deal, so it's totally worth it in the end.

As Nietzsche said, "We will have to pay for having been Christians for two thousand years"

Yeah... has anyone noticed that people have STOPPED POSTING PHOTO ALBUMS on Facebook? What's up with that? I've stopped too. I think Facebook is on the outs if their most popular feature behind wall posts has almost completely disappeared ( at least from my friends list).

Honestly, I do not see why a social network has not done this in the past. I had this idea that perhaps Doctors could get help to people on social networks via this means - at least schedule appointments. $0 cost and doctors might be able to get some new patients. Forums are around that do this, but its not like FB. Scope is what they have on the table. As long as the chat messages are secure, I think we could see a lot more philanthropic work hitting social networks. How about donations to the Red Cross or any organization via FB?

No. See, you aren't thinking like a lawyer. You can patent something IRL. Then get another patent for the same thing by adding "on a computer". Then, get a third patent by saying "on the internet". Maybe a fourth by saying "on a social network".

Troll is pronounced the same as trawl. I always thought I was trolling for fish when I was a kid, when all that time I was trawling. I'm pretty sure troll is just a bastardization of the word trawl, since the purpose of it is to catch responses and emotions from other people.

If they had gone with an algorithm, all they'd manage to create would be an emo-kid detector. Better to rely on real-world people to provide the red flags in this case. Props to Facebook for implementing something like this.

I am addicted to opiates, this year I first lost the love of my life to suicide, then my best friend to an OD, then my grandma to a stroke and finally my dad's cancer has come back, this time metastizing. My life is a complete trainwreck right now, but I cannot inflict this kind of pain onto the people who love me and care about me - so yeah, best facebook related news in a long time. If you find yourself holding a gun to your head while already having the syringe with a 100mg dose of Ultiva pressed to your vein standing on a bridge with a rope around your neck like me half a year ago, just wanting to die so bad... Think about the other lives you are about to fuck up and do the only thing even remotely able to help your situation: cry out for help! Talk to somebody! Anyone! I am 25 and don't know how I will ever be able to smile again, but suicide is just the cruelest action you could ever take against the people loving you.

Hell, if you need somebodY to talk and noone else is there, email me at neofaschistoide underscore banane at web dot de

Just don't do it, please! I am still completely ripped apart inside a year after she died:/

The whole thing sounds like something cooked up by lawyers to limit their liability in case someone offs themselves. They connect the person to a third party councilor, so facebook can say, we tried, but it wasn't our fault that this third party said the wrong thing.