With the announcement of the new Transformers: Heroes series as well as the upcoming IDW Spotlight issue, something dawned on me. What's the official story about Ultra Magnus?

Up until the DW comic series I never thought of his robot form as armor and therefore in no way thought there was any sort of "relationship" to Optimus Prime. So was that the first place it was ever refered to as armor? If not this brings up a whole slew of quesitons to me, all based on who says what is actually official.

For example: If Magnus and Optimus are supposed to be "brothers," why would they look the same if the Matrix upgrades the chosen barer? This of course has a LOT to do with what's official about the Matrix as well, but do note that in War Within the Matrix did upgrade Optimus, just not drastically so there is some reference out there to it happening.

Also, what was Magnus' Cybertron mode like then? Considering when he did come to earth Transformers really had no need to blend in too much with earth vehicles, why would he be reformated and still look like Prime under his armor?

This isn't bugging me to a painfull level or anything, and I'm sure almost all of it can be written off by the simple fact that there are so many different story/time lines to Transformers that each one is just left to the whim of whoever's writing the story at the time. Just my curiousity.

If Magnus and Optimus are supposed to be "brothers," why would they look the same if the Matrix upgrades the chosen barer? .

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I like to think of Magnus as a robot that the Matrix manufactured after it had reformated Optimus to act as a backup life support system for itself should Optimus died. In that way, they could be brothers. On the other hand it would also be interesting if they were manufactured at the SAME time, and the Matrix upgrade effected Magnus as well as Optimus. Hmm, things to ponder....

For example: If Magnus and Optimus are supposed to be "brothers," why would they look the same if the Matrix upgrades the chosen barer? This of course has a LOT to do with what's official about the Matrix as well, but do note that in War Within the Matrix did upgrade Optimus, just not drastically so there is some reference out there to it happening.

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Well, at least within the cartoon continuity, it doesn;t appear that Optimus Prime was changed by the Matrix. In that stroyline, it appears that he was reconstructed from Orion Pax already capable of carrying the Matrix.

Perhaps in the cartooniverse, Transformers who will bear the Matrix are only "upgraded" by it if they are not currently bearinga physical form capable of doing so. So in Prime's case, no changes were needed. He had the proper body cavity and strength to carry and protect it.

If Magnus was indeed Dion before Megatron's attack, then Magnus would have been constructed similarly, perhaps as a "fallback", which might explain why Prime gave him the Matrix first, being unaware of the one who would really be chosen by it.

Well, at least within the cartoon continuity, it doesn;t appear that Optimus Prime was changed by the Matrix. In that stroyline, it appears that he was reconstructed from Orion Pax already capable of carrying the Matrix.

Perhaps in the cartooniverse, Transformers who will bear the Matrix are only "upgraded" by it if they are not currently bearinga physical form capable of doing so. So in Prime's case, no changes were needed. He had the proper body cavity and strength to carry and protect it.

If Magnus was indeed Dion before Megatron's attack, then Magnus would have been constructed similarly, perhaps as a "fallback", which might explain why Prime gave him the Matrix first, being unaware of the one who would really be chosen by it.

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Yeah, in the cartoon Optimus was never upgraded. All G1 leaders were simply "Matrix bearers" designed to simply store the Matrix until the "Chosen One" arrive which was Hot Rod.

The concept of Optimus being upgraded was only very recent...which took place in DW's War Within storyline.

Its a concept concept but IMO devalues the TF mythos as it implies there are many "Chosen Ones" but that's for another discussion. LOL!

I think it's a little funny that, at the end of the day, ALL of this history, lore, whatever is based on nothing more than the fact that the 80's Ultra Magnus toy happened to have a white truck component that was just the Prime mold repainted.

I think it's a little funny that, at the end of the day, ALL of this history, lore, whatever is based on nothing more than the fact that the 80's Ultra Magnus toy happened to have a white truck component that was just the Prime mold repainted.

It's amazing what fans can think of to justify something.

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What's how it is being a fan! Its sort of crazy but fun in a way...but its interesting to note how a simple cartoon can be made into a rather complicated (at times) and interesting storyline.

But I can't help but feel that the Matrix has been an over-used plot device in recent times.

Agreed. But I think the whole UM being a "brother" or whatever to Prime is one of the stupidest ideas to be accepted on a mass level, all because his (bad) toy mode happened to be an easy repaint model for Hasbro to release. By that silly logic, Hoist & Trailbreaker, Ironhide & Ratchet, Red Alert & Sideswipe, Starscream, Skywarp & Thundercracker, Grapple & Inferno, Ramjet, Dirge & Thrust, Cliffjumper & Bumblebee, Windcharger & Swerve, Prowl, Bluestreak & Smokscreen, Gears & Outback, Huffer & Pipes, etc. should all be brothers as well.

I agree with whoever said it earlier, that I too never thought of UM's design being a bunch of battle armor that his "real" form hides in. Until DW spit that one out, I always thought of the design we saw as his no-questions-asked finalized Bot form. It just happened to be the result of 2 separate pieces coming together.

For clarifacation... Windcharger & Tailgate, Gears & Swerve, Brawn & Outback. I agree just because bots were manufactured at the same time (I'm sure there would be hundreds) wouldn't make them "brothers". However it may be as close as they will get to family.

Agreed. But I think the whole UM being a "brother" or whatever to Prime is one of the stupidest ideas to be accepted on a mass level, all because his (bad) toy mode happened to be an easy repaint model for Hasbro to release. By that silly logic, Hoist & Trailbreaker, Ironhide & Ratchet, Red Alert & Sideswipe, Starscream, Skywarp & Thundercracker, Grapple & Inferno, Ramjet, Dirge & Thrust, Cliffjumper & Bumblebee, Windcharger & Swerve, Prowl, Bluestreak & Smokscreen, Gears & Outback, Huffer & Pipes, etc. should all be brothers as well.

I agree with whoever said it earlier, that I too never thought of UM's design being a bunch of battle armor that his "real" form hides in. Until DW spit that one out, I always thought of the design we saw as his no-questions-asked finalized Bot form. It just happened to be the result of 2 separate pieces coming together.

But anyway...

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Yeah, making Optimus and Magnus as brothers as a "weird" idea to me. Another "weird" concept was Sideswipe and Sunstreaker being...twins - if I remembered correctly.

To be honest. I actually like the concept of the two being brothers. And the reason is that, yes, as a kid I needed a reason for someone like Magnus to have a base robot mode of an Icon like Optimus as his core robot. Also, to differ from everyone else, I always did (as a kid) consider Magnus' trailer to be armor... which was simply reinforced in my mind once I got PM Prime. Now they both had armor.

It didn't bother me as a kid when other characters were repainted/remolded, because I looked at them as (pardon the term) grunts. But Optimus Prime was the leader of the Autobots and I figured that he should be the only one who looks like him. When I first got my Ultra Magnus I was shocked to discover a white Prime repaint (and I kind of recall them pimping that a little in his commercial I believe) and I immediately started trying to figure reasons for them to have similar bot modes.

But, in the end, it really just boils down to which continuity you're into the most.

G1 Cartoon - Prime was reconstructed by Alpha Trion to be the first Autobot capable of kicking the shit out of the Decepticons. I always assumed the Prime was simply built to be pre-capable of bearing the Matrix, but this really isn't that big of an issue to me as I've always considered the Matrix a horrible plot convieniance that we've been stuck with thanks to the original movie. The Aerialbots also told him about Aerial (whom we know he made into Elita-1) and Dion (whom people speculate was made into Magnus). Now, if Dion was indeed Magnus, than it's possible that he was made as a back up by Alpha Trion... just in case something happened to Prime. Which it eventually did and why Magnus got the Matrix first in the movie. Of course, most of that is based on personal fan speculation and is open to much interpretation.

G1 Marvel Comic - No reason ever given. Magnus didn't appear in the American version of the Marvel Comic. And while he was in the UK version, Simon Furman never really touches on anything about Prime and Magnus having similar robot modes. Of course, they never really got into where Optimus came from either so it's not a surprise.

G1 DW Comics - Well, in TWW we see Optimus getting upgraded by the Matrix so that he can carry it. And Magnus doesn't show up (to my memory) in TWW I or TWW II. He doesn't show up until TWW III and in the one panel that you see his alt mode... it does look like his cab is exactly the same as Optimus' but we never see him unarmored. Well, not until we see him again in the second DW G1 mini-series. But that brings up the question as to why Magnus chose to take on a form of an Earth vehicle. Also, why would he end up with a robot mode similar to Prime's new Earth form? Sure, it's said at the end that the two were brothers, so the only thing that makes any sense is that Magnus was somehow effected by the Matrix when it was inserted into Prime. So, again, seeing as they were originally designed by Alpha Trion... it would make alot of sense if they were made at the same time and what not for the same purpose of one being a back up.

Personally I've always liked the idea of him being Dion, but I don't think it matters too much. There are a lot of things I don't like about the DW conception of the TF universe so I tend to favor earlier ones. I really like to consider the TV show and Beast Wars to be the two definitive resources on the "real" universe, but that's just me. So as far as I'm concerned the Matrix only upgrades the bearer if it's necessary to do so (and I actually like to think only if the person is "worthy"i.e. Magnus wasn't the right bearer at the time so it had no effect on him, and I like to pretend that Optimus Primal's upgrade was sort of "destined" the same way Hot Rod's was), and Magnus doesn't wear "armor." But really, the TF universe is so diluted, you can basically believe whatever you want.

G1 DW Comics - But that brings up the question as to why Magnus chose to take on a form of an Earth vehicle.

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This was largely explained as Shockwave intended on coming to Earth he even mentions to Prime if I recall "why do think so many of us have earth alt modes" clearly like pretty much every character who had an earth alt mode but hadnt appeared in the 1st series were part of Shockwaves intended Earth force.

Laser_Optimus said:

Also, why would he end up with a robot mode similar to Prime's new Earth form?

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This would largely be put down to their similar initial design and the similar earth alt mode.

The only problem is the issue of Optimax actually being upgraded by the Matrix, the real problem is that the DW story ended Im quite sure they had the intention to delve into not only the Prime/Magnus releationship but also revealing why Magnus needed the armor as it was implied that Magnus actually needed the armor as opposed to it simply being useful.

This was largely explained as Shockwave intended on coming to Earth he even mentions to Prime if I recall "why do think so many of us have earth alt modes" clearly like pretty much every character who had an earth alt mode but hadnt appeared in the 1st series were part of Shockwaves intended Earth force.

This would largely be put down to their similar initial design and the similar earth alt mode.

The only problem is the issue of Optimax actually being upgraded by the Matrix, the real problem is that the DW story ended Im quite sure they had the intention to delve into not only the Prime/Magnus releationship but also revealing why Magnus needed the armor as it was implied that Magnus actually needed the armor as opposed to it simply being useful.

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Ah, thanks. It's been awhile since I've read any of the DW stuff and I didn't actually buy any of them (aside from the MTMTE Profiles) so I can't look back for referance. The thing that really interests me is that you mentioned that it was implied that Magnus actually needed the armor. That might have made one killer back story.

The thing that really interests me is that you mentioned that it was implied that Magnus actually needed the armor. That might have made one killer back story.

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I love the idea of Magnus being in armour. I pretty much freaked out when I saw that in the DW comics. I always figured that with his all-white colouring and red eyes that he was like the Transformers version of an albino. Maybe transformer albinos have certain weaknesses that require extra armour. That's how I've taken it anyway. Would've been great to see how they were going to expand on that in the comics.