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Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

You're overvaluing playoff wins.

No, I am not. Playoff results are what it's all about. Preseason, regular season, and, very typical for message boarders, fantasy football, are just preliminary indicators. I could care less how Flacco compared to the other passers in regular season under the NFL's ridiculously convoluted QB rating system. Significantly more important was Flacco's arm getting the Ravens to within a Lee Evans drop of the 2011 SB (which would have been a TD catch under old NFL rules), and this years miraculous SB run.

If too much emphasis is placed on stats, it would be easy to conclude that Johnny Unitas was just an average QB; yet, Unitas was the NFL's greatest QB in the minds of many who watched him play. A contemporary of Unitas was Sonny Jurgenson, who had great stats, but lost the far majority of games. Unitas, like Flacco, was a winner.

In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by Mista T

No, I am not. Playoff results are what it's all about. Preseason, regular season, and, very typical for message boarders, fantasy football, are just preliminary indicators. I could care less how Flacco compared to the other passers in regular season under the NFL's ridiculously convoluted QB rating system. Significantly more important was Flacco's arm getting the Ravens to within a Lee Evans drop of the 2011 SB (which would have been a TD catch under old NFL rules), and this years miraculous SB run.

If too much emphasis is placed on stats, it would be easy to conclude that Johnny Unitas was just an average QB; yet, Unitas was the NFL's greatest QB in the minds of many who watched him play. A contemporary of Unitas was Sonny Jurgenson, who had great stats, but lost the far majority of games. Unitas, like Flacco, was a winner.

I'm not talking about judging Flacco solely by his regular season stats. Obviously, we all saw the difference between how consistent Joe and the offense played when Caldwell became the OC compared to when Cam was the guy.

But based on your logic, if Jacoby Jones drops the game-tying TD pass from Joe in Denver, and the Ravens don't even get to the AFC championship, then Joe is...what to you?

Because I can tell you what he wouldn't have been: Super Bowl champion & MVP.

So, you believe if the QB plays well enough to win in the playoffs--as Joe did in 2010, 2011 & 2012--but the rest of the team screws up: RBs fumbling, WRs dropping passes, OL missing blocks, the D unable to stop the other team, special teams blunders, too many penalties by other players, bad decisions by the coaches...that SOMEHOW if that team loses, IT'S ONLY THE QB'S FAULT??!

So, it doesn't matter what the other players do, what the coaches do...because it all rests on the QB. Whether they win or lose, it's entirely on him and no one else.
Because that's the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from your argument.

And what you said about Unitas: he led the NFL in Comp 3 times, pass yards 4 times, pass TDs 4 times, yards per avg 3 times, yards per game 4 times, and QB rating 3 times.

When he retired he held numerous records, like most pass TDs and yardage.
And most consecutive games with at least 1 TD pass.

AND YOU HONESTLY THINK HIS STATS WOULD MISLEAD ANYONE, WHO WAS NOT AN ABSOLUTE DULLARD, INTO THINKING HE WAS JUST AN AVERAGE QUARTERBACK?????!!!

You sir/ma'am have succeeded in stunning me in disbelief.
Literally stunning me, I can actually feel the sensation in my head.
It's a bit unpleasant, in fact.

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by Mista T

I rank Flacco ahead of the pack because he has demonstrated that he is a money ballplayer and is just coming into his prime. The only stat which I care about is the playoff "W" and the QB's age. Brady has a better playoff record, but is pushing 36. Peyton Manning (37) has a poor playoff record and has a noodle arm - don't be too surprised if Peyton doesn't come back. Eli Manning (age 32) & Ben R (age 31) have slightly better playoff records. Phillip Rivers (32), Drew Brees (34) and Aaron Rodgers (29) have so-so playoff records.

looking out 5 years, with most weight given to age and playoff performance, I would rank them:

(1) Flacco
(2) Rodgers
(3) Eli Manning

It's hard to make predictions over a five-year timeframe, but ranking anyone ahead of Aaron Rodgers for that stretch would be foolish, based on current accomplishments. Rodgers also has a Super Bowl ring, won with a sixth-seeded team that had to overcome numerous injuries, and his annual statistics are also stellar. I can see an argument for Flacco as second on the list based on his playoff success, but Eli Manning has a strong case there as well, with two titles to Flacco's one. Drew Brees is probably still young enough that over a five-year timeframe he should also rank ahead of Flacco, even if you can use the timeframe to throw out Brady and Peyton because they will be retired or at least in serious decline before those five years are up.

Matt Ryan, in spite of his playoff struggles, would also be pretty high on the list, and in the next five years the younger phenoms will also have plenty of chances to prove themselves. The truth is, Flacco just needs to continue to prove it if he wants to solidify his place in the eyes of anyone who's not a Ravens fan. The championship puts him in the discussion. But he's still viewed as streaky and inconsistent. Give him the big contract and another year with Caldwell and the current offensive weapons, without such a star-studded defensive cast, and see if he can put up the numbers that match what our eyes are telling us.

If he plays during the next regular season like he did in the playoffs, he'll post 4000 yards and 30 scores, easy. And for the first time we might need him to!

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

I haven't read every post in this thread but did someone try to make a serious argument that Flacco is a better QB than Rodgers? Because that would be literally insane. If Rodgers had been playing in Baltimore the past five years, this team would have two or three Super Bowl wins. At least.

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by psuasskicker

I haven't read every post in this thread but did someone try to make a serious argument that Flacco is a better QB than Rodgers? Because that would be literally insane. If Rodgers had been playing in Baltimore the past five years, this team would have two or three Super Bowl wins. At least.

I don't think Flacco is a better QB than Rodgers, but that's an unsupportable argument. There's no way of knowing how Rodgers would have done here. It's quite possible that Rodgers, with Cameron running the offense, would have had roughly a similar career path as Flacco. He's more mobile, but that's meaningless when the offensive schema calls for the QB to stand in the pocket and wait for receivers to get open downfield. Rodgers wouldn't have been in a modified West Coast offense, he would have been in a Cam Coryell.

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by PerpetuallyBored74

You sir/ma'am have succeeded in stunning me in disbelief.
Literally stunning me, I can actually feel the sensation in my head.
It's a bit unpleasant, in fact.

Fortunately, I can't retaliate because I help mod here. Suffice it say that that was a dumbass statement. If my opinion is "a bit unpleasant" because it does not jibe with yours, you may want to try a different hobby than message boards.

I haven't read every post in this thread but did someone try to make a serious argument that Flacco is a better QB than Rodgers? Because that would be literally insane. If Rodgers had been playing in Baltimore the past five years, this team would have two or three Super Bowl wins. At least.- C -

If you had bothered to read what I stated: my premise was youth and playoff performance are the most important factors in assessing the NFL's QBs. Flacco's performance in this regard make him, to me, the top QB in the league. Rodgers is no slouch, almost as young as Flacco. He also has a good playoff record at 5-2. One could make a case for either. I'll take Flacco, but I am not knocking Rodgers.

In a 2003 BBC poll that asked Brits to name the "Greatest American Ever", Mr. T came in fourth, behind ML King (3rd), Abe Lincoln (2nd) and Homer Simpson (1st).

Re: Where Does Flacco Rank Amongsts the League's Best QB's?

Originally Posted by Mista T

If you had bothered to read what I stated: my premise was youth and playoff performance are the most important factors in assessing the NFL's QBs. Flacco's performance in this regard make him, to me, the top QB in the league. Rodgers is no slouch, almost as young as Flacco. He also has a good playoff record at 5-2. One could make a case for either. I'll take Flacco, but I am not knocking Rodgers.

I didn't, but Rodgers has still been great in the playoffs and has a worse team around him, and isn't that much older than Flacco and has the same mileage as Flacco does. Sorry Ted, you may like Flacco more, but he's not better than Rodgers, and there is really no one that isn't a Ravens fan who would take more than a second answering Rodgers if you gave them a choice between the two.