Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day? That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year. There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty. The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look. This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet.

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming. Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas. If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.

Kapanen and Leivo won't replace Bozak and Van Riemdyk's scoring, sure, but the Leafs would hopefully get a couple of good defensemen out of the deal that they sorely need. Leivo and Kapanen aren't doing the team any good in the press box or in the minors. Leivo in particular has got to be getting pretty frustrated. He's done well when he's played and he has never once been rewarded. I quite like him personally. Kapanen is skilled also. We'll see what the front office does.

I watched Leivo through his JR days and from watching him so far in the NHL, his tendencies have not changed. He has good hands and a fairly good shot. His foot speed is fairly slow and his puck decisions can leave you questioning his actual grasp of the game. He also has the tendency to take nights off. Often. That one has yet to be proven as he's yet to play much.

Would I like to see him play more so we at least know what we have? Yes. Do I think he's anywhere close to JVR? Not even. In fact, I'm not sure we'd ever see Leivo be more than a 4th liner that can fill in on the 3rd line from time to time.

Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.

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"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.

Good points all. And I would personally focus on getting Kapanen in the line-up. I don't quite get the focus on Leivo. He looks like a classic tweener to me.

Yeah, I think not only is Kapanen better than Leivo right now, he has a higher ceiling. That said, I don't think we really know what Leivo could do with more ice time higher in the lineup. Maybe his limitations are evident to the coaching staff (via practice) but he doesn't look bad when he's in the lineup, especially considering his linemates.

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.