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[quote]The only reason I brought up Terry was because the "train story" was brought up again, as the trump card in the discussion. [/QUOTE}

No. It was not brought up as a trump card. It was brought up as a relative thought and I believed some people who hadn't read it might enjoy it. Not a thing more. I can accept you took it that way. As a matter of fact, I guess I knew you would. But what am I 'sposed to do about that?

I've thought a bit about your tone over the last few days and I came to this idea:
I do think you brought it up because you have a bone to pick with what you perceive as a general malaise on the part of aikidoka and an unrealistic idea that may people have about what training should bring and what 'peace' means.

Quote:

Ahh - I can't help it. My fingers are moving. I must write another anecdote . . .. I swear by all that is holy that this is true, and that Terry only figures into it because - - - well, you'll see.
I was riding on a train in Japan (see, I knew you wouldn't believe me!). It was the Sobu line - I was coming home from kick boxing practice (quelle horrible!!!), tired, oh so tired, hanging on a strap of the train. A muscular Japanese man got on the train, dressed in a camie jacket, his mouth in a snarl. He took a look at me, and without a word, slugged me in the stomach. I was in such good shape, then, that it didn't hurt. It's hard to be mad (well, harder) when you aren't hurt. I grabbed his forearm and told him, "If you try anything like that again, I'll have to hurt you." He struggled and cursed at me, and in the process, dropped a book he was carrying.
I thought of Terry. I thought of the train story. Compassion. Conflict resolution. And so, I let him go, bent my knees (I did keep my eyes on him), picked up his book and said, "You dropped this. Looks like a valuable book."
His eyes widened. He took the book, his face softened, and he said to me, "You are a good guy. Hey, let's say you and I go get a few drinks, and then grab some woman and rape her."

I will repeat. This story is absolutely true. I simply walked off the train at the next stop. Yet another occasion when I still wonder if the moral response should have been - - - well, I have another story about that in Dueling with Osensei.

Good stories all. And there is no quibble from me, as I honestly said, I've got a lot of war stories, too. And I mean what I said when I pointed out that we are all 'real people being real'. I believe I alluded to my point of view that we are not demi-gods setting some moral standard. We are people becoming more truly ourselves. For each person that is different. And If I didn't say it explicitly before. I'm saying it now.

T
Good stories all. And there is no quibble from me, as I honestly said, I've got a lot of war stories, too. And I mean what I said when I pointed out that we are all 'real people being real'. I believe I alluded to my point of view that we are not demi-gods setting some moral standard. We are people becoming more truly ourselves. For each person that is different. And If I didn't say it explicitly before. I'm saying it now.
Thanks

So very very true. I'll bet The Lane is foggy cold and perfect right now. Happy New Year Jen.

...Again, society -the law- tells how to handle things differently than Terry did in those situation. We shouldn't take the law into our own hands and we should be law abiding citizens.

I surely can't be alone in thinking 'society' is NOT equal to 'the Law'.
Philip are you saying the Law reflects each society's ideal structure for justice? or maybe the Law in your area reflects an/THE ideal structure for justice?

I believe we should take justice into our own hands as and when required by circumstance. Most of the time that'd be law-abiding anyway.
I happen to believe Terry's throat-grab of bottle-chucker was well within my own view of justice, given the story and no extra facts.

I surely can't be alone in thinking 'society' is NOT equal to 'the Law'.
Philip are you saying the Law reflects each society's ideal structure for justice? or maybe the Law in your area reflects an/THE ideal structure for justice?

I believe we should take justice into our own hands as and when required by circumstance. Most of the time that'd be law-abiding anyway.
I happen to believe Terry's throat-grab of bottle-chucker was well within my own view of justice, given the story and no extra facts.

What I am saying is you don't take the law into your own hands. Terry's actions means he by-passed the law, took matters into his own hands. Terry wasn't stopping a crime. He committed one too and both men got away with it. The end result is the emotional release Terry got from it, verses, calling the cops having the guy arrested. But some people are brawlers and feel the best way to resolve conflict is with violence, when violence is really not needed to resolve the conflict.

What if we allowed everyone to act like Terry did? The answer is seen in history of New York with all the gangs and violence, or the Barbary Coast of S.F. More importantly not everyone can intimidate people like Terry did. From what I can tell the guy was smaller than Terry. And as I said before, Terry is lucky he wasn't stabbed, or shot. I am not into vigilante justice, it tends to be more romanticized than it really is, and I ain't made for that, it wouldn't work for me. What is the saying, the pen is greater than the sword.

Here is what I really want to say is my major point. The law parallels O'Sensei's views on violence and peace, society wants a peaceful civil society, and not a violent chaotic society. That means yes you will have a murder rate, and other crime rates. But what you don't have is a feral society driven by violence. O'Sensei as difficult to understand, is really over-ridden by society (most I know of) that sets peace as its goals for its people.

I don't know about you, but prision isn't a society I would want to live in.

No Ron, you amaze me, over and over again. I bet you don't even drink.

Well, Buck, I'm not Ron but I do drink on occasion. And frankly reading your posts perfectly sober (right now) or after a few double martinis (a few days ago) appears to make little difference. I usually sit here scratching my head wondering how on earth you get what you seem to get from what is written.