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I gave this one a 7. I rarely complain but there was so much wrong here. My husband thought it was great. I don't get it.

The whole ploy to go get a wight - just a mess.

I'm even willing to let all of the super fast travel go, but that they'd risk so much and they have to know that Cersei will not care one bit about it. What a waste, especially since they lost a dragon.

The Winterfell storyline has just absolutely pissed me off. It's pointless and stupid.

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I deliberated between giving it a 5 or 6. I opted ultimately for 5 based upon visuals, Emilia Clarke's surprisingly improved acting capability in her scene with Jon and the fun dialogue between Tormund et al.

On visuals alone, I couldn't rank it below 5 since a good deal of work has obviously gone into it and the finished product looks good.

But the illogical nature of the plot, the general silliness, the time lapses...it was all just so insulting to the intelligence of the viewer.

The only parts that I liked were the opening dialogue scenes between the brotherhood (genuinely funny) and somewhat surprisingly the final Jon-Dany scene. Emilia Clarke conveys grief and vulnerability far better than she does strength. I felt like we got something of the "old" Dany from season 1 back again. There was something quite touching about her budding romance with Mr Snow...Emilia Clarke is a beautiful cryer.

Apart from that and the visuals, not much to commend.

I think (with the exception of episodes 3 and 4) that they've butchered this whole season.

This is not GoT as I remember it. I still enjoy the show but more for spectacle now as opposed to the complex drama I used to watch in earlier seasons.

Once upon a time, GoT was this incredible hybrid show: a "fantasy political drama", "the Sopranos in Middle Earth".

I still enjoy watching it but really, what has happened to the finely-crafted political drama dimension of the plot?

I'm no hater of fantasy (obviously), and I appreciate that the in-built logic of the story from GRRM has always been building towards a "high fantasy" climax involving the Army of the Dead and Dragons...but still, I just feel that a certain degree of substance is lacking now.

The show used to get the balance between high fantasy/politics just right when it followed ASOIAF and even, I would say, up until the end of Season 6.

When I look back at Season 1, I realise that the additions and changes D&D made actually improved the source material for TV. It's a very different medium from the novel and sometimes great books make bad TV. So changes are necessary.

With that in mind, I'm beginning to think that the lack of GRRM material - while obviously a serious problem - is not the sole reason for the decline in the quality of the plot.

It really must be the rushed manner in which they are trying to complete this thing. The earlier seasons are testimony to the fact that D&D could write decently with GRRM's narrative as the "bulking mechanism". Even in the absence of that bulk, they shouldn't be making the shoddy mistakes that they are making.

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As always the fact that I've been waiting 16 years for the plot to advance like this and we are finally getting somewhere.

The Usual Suspects style banter and interaction between the boys (including the back end of the last espisode).

How easy it was for the NK to take down a Dragon.

Jon and Dany having an on screen "moment" that finally made sense from an emotional response angle.

The Dragon's ripping into the army of the Undead. And the sheer scope and size of the Undead army!

Disliked:

The whole stuck on a rock in the middle of a frozen lake scenario.

Hound being dumb and throwing rocks at the undead out of boredom and frustration.

I can buy Gendry getting back to the Wall (from what I can make out they had travelled a little way before capturing the Wight, so it's possible that one man on foot running could've made it back in two or three hours). I can't buy a Raven travelled to Dragonstone and then Dany flew back in time to rescue them in under 24 hours. It would have taken at least twice that long.

But the dumbest thing of all was that you have two people with flaming swords. And yet one died of cold. And no one thought to use these flaming swords to create a continual moat around the rock. If they had done that then you could've almost believed that they could have held out on the rock for two or three days (except for point 6 below!).

Surely the logical thing to do would have been to bring some Ravens with you?!

I can buy the javelin throw from the Night King. With that in mind, why didn't he just start throwing Javelins at them instead of hanging around doing nothing?

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As penultimate episodes go, this just didn't do it for me. Too much of this entire season has been rushed and disjointed. The wight hunt was long a stupid, terrible idea but the consequences really hammered that home. D&D really should not have shortened the season.

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5 - Everything seemed too rushed and the teleportation of the raven was bad. I would have had them still 'attempt' to send a raven - good idea, but that should have taken too long to help them as it turned out. Bran would probably sense something was up and he could have communicated somehow (flock of crows for example) to Daenerys that something was wrong pretty quickly and the time-travelling ravens wouldn't have been necessary.

What's stopping him from making them? Or stealing them from Hardhome, which had a harbor and presumably abandoned ships? The wights aren't stupid - they stopped at the edge of the cracked ice and went no further, but once Pippin...I mean the Hound tossed a rock at them and they saw that the ice had refrozen, they started crossing over in smaller numbers so as not to recrack it. Even if the wights are brainless monsters, the white walkers are definitely smart enough to forge chains and could remote control a pack of wights into an abandoned smithy and make them.

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But the dumbest thing of all was that you have two people with flaming swords. And yet one died of cold. And no one thought to use these flaming swords to create a continual moat around the rock. If they had done that then you could've almost believed that they could have held out on the rock for two or three days

What are they going to light? They'd need a moat full of fuel to burn. Rock's don't burn and nor does ice. Thoros died because he'd been mauled by Zombie the Poo, had lost a lot of blood, drank way too much alcohol (never drink alcohol in subfreezing temperatures), and nobody wanted to spoon with him through the night. Saving the flaming swords for battle was the smart thing to do, because I bet they don't just burn indefinitely without a small fuel source (oil, for example).

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Gave it a 5. Not simply because of the blatant violation of zombie rules (it has been an established fact at least since Land of the Dead that zombied DO can swim). But partly because of the indecisiveness in this show: first the frozen hang out around the pool, chillin', apparently they cannot cross water. Then, later, during the fight, two of them emerge from the water to order a cold dog/hound. Now what: can they swim or can't they? Choose one, ffs!
Also, this whole people falling into water thing gets really annoying this season. Jon had even less chances to survice than Jamie.
And: Even if ravens are magical beings who travel at the speed of (the lord of) light, ensuring the airforce's just in time delivery of heat, hotness, and warm beverages - as she just happened to be there, the dead army not that big, and Bran's Significant Other relaxing on the next hilltop - why did Dany not, you know, roast him, right now, right there? One dragon lost, two to go, fly by shooting, adjust flame throwers to the next target (i.e. Sissi, er: Cersei), end of story.
In the end, she assures Jon of going to fight with him against the Night King. Well sweetie, in case you did not notice: you just did. He was right there, the pale guy with the Robert Redford eyes, standing about hundred metres (bee/dragon-line) away from you. No, did not see him? Well, ok, fine.
Then, who were all those people in the suddenly not so small gang of kidnappers? In their first take, there were only a few, the fellowship, marching in line, singing "Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho". Then, people kept dying, and I at least had no clue who it was. Somebody got eaten by a crossbreed between a polar bear and a hyena. Who's that? What's he doing there? Somebody saves Jon, and gets eaten by team NW. Who's that? How did he get there? &c.

A professed Sansa hater, I however did very much like the scenes with Arya. I know, it will all end in their reconciliation, and Lord Baelish's destruction, but for how long it lasts, I'll lean back and enjoy.
Plus "Now I got a Dragon Ho-Ho-Ho." That's why five points. Ice spiders would have been even cooler, but ok, dragon's good.

Now, I'm thinking of Benjen to the rescue once more, one more idiotic scene... It might be about time, the series ends...

Edited August 21, 2017 by Ice C

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Gave it a 5. Not simply because of the blatant violation of zombie rules (it has been an established fact at least since Land of the Dead that zombied DO can swim). But partly because of the indecisiveness in this show: first the frozen hang out around the pool, chillin', apparently they cannot cross water. Then, later, during the fight, two of them emerge from the water to order a cold dog/hound. Now what: can they swim or can't they? Choose one, ffs!
Also, this whole people falling into water thing gets really annoying this season. Jon had even less chances to survice than Jamie.
And: Even if ravens are magical beings who travel at the speed of (the lord of) light, ensuring the airforce's just in time delivery of heat, hotness, and warm beverages - as she just happened to be there, the dead army not that big, and Bran's Significant Other relaxing on the next hilltop - why did Dany not, you know, roast him, right now, right there? One dragon lost, two to go, fly by shooting, adjust flame throwers to the next target (i.e. Sissi, er: Cersei), end of story.
In the end, she assures Jon of going to fight with him against the Night King. Well sweetie, in case you did not notice: you just did. He was right there, the pale guy with the Robert Redford eyes, standing about hundred metres (bee/dragon-line) away from you. No, did not see him? Well, ok, fine.
Then, who were all those people in the suddenly not so small gang of kidnappers? In their first take, there were only a few, the fellowship, marching in line, singing "Heigh Ho, Heigh Ho". Then, people kept dying, and I at least had no clue who it was. Somebody got eaten by a crossbreed between a polar bear and a hyena. Who's that? What's he doing there? Somebody saves Jon, and gets eaten by team NW. Who's that? How did he get there? &c.

A professed Sansa hater, I however did very much like the scenes with Arya. I know, it will all end in their reconciliation, and Lord Baelish's destruction, but for how long it lasts, I'll lean back and enjoy.
Plus "Now I got a Dragon Ho-Ho-Ho." That's why five points. Ice spiders would have been even cooler, but ok, dragon's good.

Now, I'm thinking of Benjen to the rescue once more, one more idiotic scene... and how exactly they "killed" those zombies, hitting them in the stomach like a living person, and they dying like a living person... It might be about time, the series ends...

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What are they going to light? They'd need a moat full of fuel to burn. Rock's don't burn and nor does ice. Thoros died because he'd been mauled by Zombie the Poo, had lost a lot of blood, drank way too much alcohol (never drink alcohol in subfreezing temperatures), and nobody wanted to spoon with him through the night. Saving the flaming swords for battle was the smart thing to do, because I bet they don't just burn indefinitely without a small fuel source (oil, for example).

The sword? To melt the ice around the rock? To form a moat? And I'm sorry but using them in battle against hopeless odds rather than trying to stall so that no battle occurs at all, surely the latter is better than the former?

Fair enough on Thoros dying from his wounds. I never caught that.

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Dialog was super clunky. I don't think a single scene made sense really. Hopefully the Arya/Sansa thing is going to be a good payoff I can't see yet (which is fine) and if it does this could go up to a 5. But the writing this episode was awful. Not even ASOIAF related, just issues with continuity and basic storytelling was awful.

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s01e01 - Cersei: "We've been riding for a month, my love. Surely the dead can wait." (from KL to WF)

s07e06 - Gendry, Raven, Drogon: "Hold our beers."

I gave it 3/10, they already destroyed this show.

Dragons and ravens racing in a life and death situation are a lot faster than royal entourages that aren't in a hurry. We don't know how much time passed on the rock lake - they could have been out there for days. The entire scouting party probably was ranging a short distance from the wall - nobody's stupid enough to forge blindly north and risk getting surrounded ten days' march from the wall. They were probably moving parallel with the wall between Hardhome and Eastwatch (which aren't too far apart anyway) looking for outlying wight scouting parties to ambush. Gendry probably only had to run for a few hours max. The ravens could have flown to Dragonstone in a half day, and dragons are, I'm sure, very fast when they need to be.

The other instances of 'teleportation' in the show presume weeks or months of travel. This show ain't '24', and the showrunners aren't giving us the plodding travel log that GRRM did in A Dance with Dragons. Be thankful. Sansa mentioned not hearing from Jon for weeks, which accounts for a good bit of travel we didn't have to endure prior to all the castle battles.

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The sword? To melt the ice around the rock? To form a moat? And I'm sorry but using them in battle against hopeless odds rather than trying to stall so that no battle occurs at all, surely the latter is better than the former?

Fair enough on Thoros dying from his wounds. I never caught that.

They had a moat thanks to the heavy wights bum rushing the stage at the beginning. It was refreezing. What's a tiny sword-chopped moat going to get them? Zombies can jump.

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"NOW I GOT A DRAGON HO-HO-HO"Gave it a 5. Not simply because of the blatant violation of zombie rules (it has been an established fact at least since Land of the Dead that zombied DO can swim). But partly because of the indecisiveness in this show: first the frozen hang out around the pool, chillin', apparently they cannot cross water. Then, later, during the fight, two of them emerge from the water to order a cold dog/hound. Now what: can they swim or can't they? Choose one, ffs!

And it is implied that the wighs not just can swim... they dove to the water to chain the sank dragon , so it can be pulled out...

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They had a moat thanks to the heavy wights bum rushing the stage at the beginning. It was refreezing. What's a tiny sword-chopped moat going to get them? Zombies can jump.

If they held a flame against the ice, it would melt. Fire is very hot, regardless of how thick ice is. If fire is touching the ice, then the ice melts bloody quickly. When I am talking about isn't a castle moat that is 50 ft wide. 6 ft wide would have given them a buffer and would certainly have been better than nothing.

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It was nice to see them bring one of the old directors(Alan Taylor) back and he seemed to reign in the Dumb and Dumber brothers.

It is still just a chain of Deus ex Dragon, and silly ignorance of logistic and logic. But it was very entertaining. I will nitpick in the thread...

I really liked Maise William's performance, even if I have no idea what she is talking about half of the time. Was she the voice of the Sansa-hating fans? (I am one of them often). For such a young woman, she brought some serious menace to a silly scene. She must have taken notes from her season with Charles Dance.

In that scene, it would have been nice if they gave Sansa a moment to make her more sympathetic and have a break down emotionally. As many awful things as she's had to endure, we've never seen her really feel it (she just keeps telling people how awful things were). That scene would have played so well if she just fell apart in front of her sister and even admitted to her worst crime (informing on Ned's plan to unseat Cersei). Arya just stares at her, completely unable to respond appropriately. Then hands her the dagger and walks out. Sansa fixes her appearance quickly, walks out and does some banal ruler thing. ("Make sure the stables are ready for Lord Manderly's visit or something"). I think this scene could have really helped win many us back to her side. We should be rooting for Sansa. Instead we got more stuff that plays like a high school soap opera.

The Fellowship of the Wight (Snow Wight and the Seven Swords?) (The Council of Eastwatch?) was fun spectacle, though I was slightly bored because I was just waiting to see which 3rd teir character would die and then Super Dany would show up. I knew about the dragon getting wighted as a spoiler slipped through my SpoilerFireWall. (F*** YOU SPOILER PEOPLE, keep it to yourself!!! Though in this case, the former student who did it has agreed to buy the first round of beers the next soccer game we go to. Problem solved. The whole Game of Thrones thing would be very short if everyone settled grudges by buying beers at soccer games. "Dorne and Storm's End play a thrilling nil-nil draw. Rulers of Westeros are seen staggering out, but it seems we're back to peacetime. Join us next week when the Maesters of Oldtown will try to upset the Greyjoy Reavers.")

For a brief moment, I actually believed the show was going to make a brave decision and return to it's subversive roots. After the dragon gets baptized, the camera pans down. Jon's corpse is laying lifeless on the lake floor. Cut back to the Army of Darkness, some nameless wight, accidentally kicks Longclaw into the icehole (maybe he disintegrates too). Longslaw is shown falling like Jaime in Ep4. It lands in the mud next to Jon. They both settle into the soft lakefloor, never to be seen again.

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I did not even get what Sansa's plan is. I thought LF told her to use Brienne for protection against Arya and then she sends her away. Did I get that wrong? Maybe I just dont care enough anymore...

Still entertaining but really disappointing.

I agree. I didn't get it either. If she promised to protect both the girls, then why is Sansa sending her away? Does she really want to deal with her sister with Littlefinger's help though she has seen her sister's skills.