From mvanalst@rbi.com Mon Oct 14 09:50:48 PDT 1996
Article: 74123 of alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!news.sgi.com!newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!nntp1.best.com!rbi148.rbi.com!user
From: mvanalst@rbi.com (Mark Van Alstine)
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: I always get the feeling
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 1996 06:23:15 -0800
Organization: rbi software systems
Lines: 330
Message-ID:
References: <53heff$kne@is05.micron.net> <53ppoe$kjq@is05.micron.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: rbi147.rbi.com
X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.0.5b5
In article , dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
wrote:
> kurtstel@micron.net (Kurt Stele) writes:
>
> # According to the "Holocaust" tale they gassed people
> # every 5 - 20 minutes.
>
> Rubbish. The large gas chambers held at least 1,500 people.
> It is impossible that they were used at a rate even close
> to the one you give.
Obviously, Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, can't discern
between how long the Nazi gassed their victims to death with Zyklon B to
(5-20 minutes) and how long it took to get all 1,500 or so victims
undreressed, into the homicidal gas chamber where they were murdered,
hauled out, and their corpses plundered and incinerated (about a day.)
> # If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas
> # people than to gas lice.
>
> But it's not true.
Indeed it is not. Herr Wankermeister, being the dim-bulb he is, failed to
consider that for every transport of deportees (~1,000 people) murdered in
the the gas chamber it took about 4 kg of Zyklon B (6 kg for 1,500
people). However, in addition to delousing the clothes of the _registered_
inmates, the personal effects of the victims were also disinfested.
So, how much Zyklon B was used in the delousing gas chambers? According to
NI-9912 (section IX):
"...For inside temperatures of more than 5 degrees Cent. it is customary
to use 8 g prussic acid per m3. Time needed to take effect: 16 hours,
unless there are special circumstances such as a closed-in type of
building, which requires less time. If the weather is warm it is possible
to reduce this to a minimum of 6 hours. The period is to be extended to 32
hours if the temperature is below 5 deg. Cent.
"The strength and time as above are to be applied in the case of: bugs,
lice, fleas, etc., with eggs, larves, and chrysales."
"For clothes moths: temperatures above 10 deg. Cent.: 16g per m3 and 24
hours to take effect. (Pressac, _Technique_, p.19.)
So, 8-16 grams of Zyklon per cubic meter, depending on the insect. How big
were the delousing gas chambers?
Note: grams of prussic acid per cubic meter does _not_ equate to grams of
Zyklon B per cubic meter. Zyklon B was the carrier for the prussic acid
(HCN). According to _Nazi Mass Murder_ (p.206) the Zyklon B carrier held
aproximately twice its weight in prussic acid. This would mean that a 1 kg
can of Zyklon B actually contained about 660g of prussic acid.
Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I
===================================================
The disinfestation chambers in Block 26 measured 7.80 m x 4.92 m and 9.70
m x 4.92 m. (cf. Ibid. p.24.) Assuming a height of 3.8 m (same as in the
delousing chamber of Block 1) that gives volumes of ~146 cu m and ~181 cu
m, respectively. A disinfestation time the same as that of Block 3 is
assumed. (See below.)
The disinfestation chamber in Block 1 measured aproximately 5.5 m x 3.2 m
x 3.8 m, for a volume of ~67 cu m. According to Andrzeje Rablin, a
prisoner who worked the disinfestation gas chambers of Block 3, it topok
about 26 hours per disinfestation (cf. Ibid. p.27.) I will assume a
similar time for the disinfestation gas chamber in Block 1.
The disinfestation chamber of Kanada I poses problems in estimating how
much Zyklon B was used. Pressac gives no dimensions for it, however he
does supply a map of the installation that shows where the disinfestation
chamber is located, and that it occupies one half of the building it is
in. (cf. Ibid. p.41.) Fortunately, one can get get a rough measure of the
dimensions to the disinfestation building in Kanada I from one of Ball's
air photos: 10 m x 4 m. (cf. Ball, _Air Photo Evidence_, p.34.) Assuming a
room height of 3.8 m (i.e. that of Block 1's chamber), and that the
chamber occupied half the building, the Kanada I disinfestation chamber
would have had a volume of 76 cu m. According to Josef Odl, a prisoner who
worked in Kanada I in the spring of 1944, multiple cans of Zyklon B were
used in each disinfestation which, also according to him, took
approximately one hour. (cf. Ibid.)
Then there were the 19 Zyklon B delousing chambers in the Stammmlager
reception building. Each had a volume of about 10 cu m and used heated
forced air to reduce the disinfestation time to somewhere between 1-2
hours. (Pressac, _Technique_ p.31; Van Pelt, _Auschwitz: 1270 to the
present_, p. 220-221.)
Now, given that Rablin explicity stated that the time taken for delousing
was 24 hours, (and given that the plundered clothes of the inmates were
shipped back to the Reich) it is quite probable that the disinfestations
were done using 16g of HCN per cu m -the concentration and time dictated
to kill clothes moths (and, of course, lice, fleas, etc.).
Note: Given that Zyklon B came in 200g, 500g, 1 kg, and 1.5 kg cannisters,
I will adjust the estimated Zyklon required (below) to the nearest
cannister amount. (Pressac, _Technique_, pp.16-17,21.)
This would then indicate that the two disinfestation chambers in Block 26
would probably have used 8 kg of Zyklon B per (combined) disinfection and
1.5 kg for Block 1's chamber.
The Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers where used to disinfest the
clothes of registering (or registered) prisoners. If used continuously
they could each perform, at most, 24 disinfestions per day and use,
assuming 8g cu m instead of 16 g cu m, 3.8 kg of Zyklon B per
disinfestation. (The reason for assuming 8 cu m is due to the nature of
the Stammlager's disinfestation process which was geared to disinfesting
and _returning_ the to the prisoners' their clothes. Arguably, the only
purpose involved here would be delousing, which requires only 8g cu m of
prussic acid.)
Estimating the Stammlager's capacity is somewheat difficult, considering
that it was designed in 1942 for a camp population of 30,000. By the time
of it's completion in April/May 1944 the the population of Auschwitz was:
Auschwitz I 16,000 men
Auschwitz II 15,000 men 21,000 women
Auschwitz III 15,000 men
-----------------------
46,000 men, 21,000 women
Total 67,000 prisoners
cf. Czech, _Auschwitz Chronicle_, p.606.
If we add to this the estimated 44,000 Hungarian Jews who survived
selection during Aktion Ho"ss, that would bring the total to over 100,000
prisoners. How many of these prisoners actually would have been deloused
in the Stammlager? Probably most the new prisoners who were registered in
Auschwitz I. Probably the already regstered prisoners in Auschwitz I.
Probably _not_ those in Auschwitz II and III. So, probably at best, 16,000
people could have been eligible for disinfesting at the Stammlager.
Given that the Stammlager's 19 disinfestation chambers, each 10 cu m, were
quite similar in size to the hot air disinfesting chambers in the Zentral
Sauna at Birkenau it is not unreasobale to assume a similar capacity.
Photos of the hot air chambers indicate that the garment trolleys held
about twenty garmnets and each hot air chamber held two trolleys for a
total of about 40 garments. If a similar capacity is considered for the
Zyklon B chambers in the Stammlager, this would mean, given a 2 hour
disinfestation time, that over 9,000 garments could be disinfested per 24
hours. Assuming that 18,000 garments (approximately the population of
Auschwitz I) were disinfested, that would have required 450 disinfesting
chamber cycles, or 90 kg of Zyklon B, and would have taken (optimisticaly)
the Stammlager's 19 chambers a few days to accomplish.
Note: However, as the evidence of any such proactive hygienic measures are
quite to the contrary, it is probably realistic to think in terms of
_months_ for such numbers of prisoner garments being disinfested rather
than days. Such marked difference between the Stammlager's cpacity and
reality simply further evidences the homicidal motives of the Nazis by
making sure that good personal hygiene was nearly impossible.
Obviously, the Stammlager's disinfesting chambers had some major
ovecapacity. This rasies the question as to whether the Stammlager's large
disinfesting capacity was used to disinfest the plunder of the Hungarian
Jews during Aktion Ho"ss. The Stammlager certainly appeares to have had
the capacity to handle it: during the two months of Aktion Ho"ss it would
have been possible that as many as 540,000 garments could have been
disinfested. (Using 2,400 kg of Zyklon B).
For Kanada 1's disinfestation chamber, however, we are faced with a bit of
a problem: NI-9912 states an exposure of 16 g cu m of prussic acid for 24
hours, while an eyewitness said it took one hour for the disinfestation
gassing. Either the exposure time was greater than one hour, or the HCN
concentration was higher than 16 g cu m. Or both.
Considering that a 16 g cu m HCN concentration in Kanada 1's chamber
equates to 1.8 kg of Zyklon B; and that the Zyklon B cans photographed by
the Soviets at the liberation of the camp appear to be primarily 1.5 kg
cans (cf. Pressac, _Technique_. pp.45,47); and that Odl testified that
multiple cans were used, it is arguable that multiple 1.5 kg cans of
Zyklon B _were_ used per disinfestation. This would support an HCN
concentration of greater than 16g cu m. So, it is likely that the
disinfestation time was less than 24 hours. Perhaps much less. Given that
NI-9912 states that an HCN concrentration of 75g cu m is required before
danger of explosion, 7.5 kg (5 1.5 kg cans) of Zyklon B could have safely
been used to speed the disinfestation process. (cf. Ibid. p.18).
Therefore, assuming that using four times the Zyklon B would reduce the
disinfestation time required to one-fourth the time (not a given, btw), I
will guestimate that it took 6 hours per disinfestation at Kanada I. Also,
given that the Entwesungskommando at Kanada I had about fifteen people
assigned to the disinfestation gas chamber, and that, in comaprison,
Rablin talks only about himself and another prisoner at one of the
disinfstation gas chambers of Block 3. (cf. Ibid. pp.25,41), I will make
yet another guestimate as to that the loading and unloading of Kanada I's
gas chamber took four hours. Therefore, I will assume that the entire
disinfestation cycle at Kanada took about 10 hours, allowing at most two
disinfestations per day.
As mentioned above, there were two disinfestation chambers in Block 3.
Given that Pressac does not provide the dimensions for the disinfestation
chambers in Block 3, I can only conject, based on Rablin's account:
"...Since we were afraid of being bitten by the lice we put the chisel,
the hammer, and the can of Zyklon B ready in advance, opened it quickly
and threw the substance on the floor....," that 1.5 kg were used per
chamber. (Ibid. p.25.) This would mean that Block 3's chambers probably
used total of 3 kg of Zyklon B per gassing.
Furthermore, acccording to Rablin, it _sometimes_ took as long as two days
to fill the disinfestation chambers of Block 3 with clothes. (cf. Ibid.)
Given this, and that it took about 24 hours to disinfest the clothes, I
will assume an _average_ disinfestation cycle-time of 48 hours for the
disinfestation chambers of Blocks 1, 3 and 26.
Assuming all the disinfestation gas chambers in Auschwitz I were being
used and including them (with the exception of the Stammlager's) in the
tally, this would mean that the amount of Zyklon B used in the
disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz I would probably have been
around:
Zyklon B
kg/month kg/year
Block 1 .................. 22 264
Block 3 .................. 45 540
Block 26 ................. 120 1,440
Kanada I ................. 225 2,700
Total .... 412 4,944
Zyklon B disinfestation gas chambers at Auschwitz II-Birkemau
==============================================================
In Birkenau there two Zyklon B delousing buildings: BW 5a and 5b, located
in camps BIa and BIb. Each building had one gas chamber (10.9m x 9.9m x
4.7m) in which, intially, Zyklon B was used. (cf. Ibid. pp.53,55.) Given
that the volume of the gas chambers 507 cu m, and that because they were
delousing chambers for the prisoners effects an HCN concentration of 8g cu
m was likely, each gas chamber would have probably used 6 kg of Zyklon B
per delousing.
Probably sometime in (late) 1943 the gas chamber in BW 5a was dismantled
and two hot air disinfesting chambers installed in it place. (cf. Ibid.
p.53.)
Assuming one disenfestation gassing per day the amount of Zyklon B usage
probably was around:
Zyklon B
kg/month kg/year
BW 5a ................... 180 2,160
BW 5b ................... 180 264
Total .... 360 4,320
However, given that BW 5a was converted to using hot air probably in late
1943, that actual amiunt of Zyklon B used by in 1944 would only be 2,160
kg,
Zyklon B and the 1942 Typhus epidemic at Auschwitz II-Birkemau
===============================================================
On July 23, 1942, Ho"ss issued Komandantanturbefehl 19/42 placing Birkenau
in a state of isolation and increased disinfestation measures due to a
severe outbreak of typhus. In the following few months enourmous amounts
of Zyklon B were requested by the Auschwitz SS to combat the typhus epedic
then raging in Birkenau. Trucks were dispatched to the Zyklon plant at
Dessau five times, probably retrieving on the order of 25 _tonnes_ of
Zyklon B. (cf. Ibid. p.188.)
*****
Now, consider all the above and compare it against Herr Wankermeister's
claim that, "If this is true there STILL was far more gas used to gas
people than to gas lice." If we take the Auschwitz-Birkenau State
Museum's official estimate of 1.13 million murdered at Auschwitz,
ascribing _every_ death to gassing with Zyklon (which, of course, is not
the case) that would mean that 4,520 kg of Zyklon B would have been used
for homicidal purposes at Auschwitz.
However, as I have (hopefully) demonstrated, the amount of Zyklon B used
for disinfestation purposes in _only_ 1943, for example, would have
probably been about 9,000 kg.
Then there's the issue of the 25 TONNES used for combatting the typhus
epidemic in 1942....
Small wonder why I call Kurtzie Herr Wankermeister. To plagerize Mr.
Ferree (sorry Chuck, but it's much too apropo):
Herr Wankermeister hasn't had a thought since he discovered masturbation.
> # The old "it takes longer to delouse than to gas Jews" position
> # is Nizkor's attempted retort to the Leuchter report.
>
> It's a medical fact, you poor clown. Look at any relevant medical
> text and check how long it takes for people to die when exposed to
> the same concentration of HCN used for delousing.
Sorry, Herr Wankermeister's too busy playing with himself.
However, for those interested in HCN trivia, please visit:
http://environment.cc.colorado.edu/Courses/SarahMortonReport/Cyanide.html
http://www.osha-slc.gov/ChemSamp_data/CH_230400.html
http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu/txt/fairs/15547
http://www.hhmi.org/science/labsafe/lcss/lcss50.htm
http://www.opcw.nl/chemhaz/hcn.htm
To see exactly what kind of psychopathic anti-Semite Herr Wankermeister
is, please visit:
http://www1.ca.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?people/s/stele.kurt
Mark
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gradually it was disclosed to me that the line separating good and evil passes
not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties--but
right through every human heart--and all human hearts."
-- Alexander Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This site is intended for educational purposes to teach about the Holocaust and
to combat hatred.
Any statements or excerpts found on this site are for educational purposes only.

As part of these educational purposes, Nizkor may
include on this website materials, such as excerpts from the writings of racists and antisemites. Far from approving these writings, Nizkor condemns them and
provides them so that its readers can learn the nature and extent of hate and antisemitic discourse. Nizkor urges the readers of these pages to condemn racist
and hate speech in all of its forms and manifestations.