not believing means send to hell?

So if w use our free will and don't do what God wants we end up in hell?

See it as you may, it's true.

Determined by what exactly?

Not really. You think he does nothing, in reality, he is allowing our decisions to go on. And there is no punishment large enough for sin.

Everything regarded as sin are finite actions. If sin is deserving of an eternal punishment that would mean God can't let anything go. Even if this God couldn't it would be pretty ridiculous not to.

Yet somehow, we did. I don't get it either, but I have faith in it.

And there in is the faulty logic. You don't get it because it makes no friggin sense. You're believing something that is ridiculous and just blindly going with it. Use that brain you think God gave you and think.

[quote]Not really. The choices you take must be carried out during life.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo if w use our free will and don't do what God wants we end up in hell?\r\n\r\n[quote]See it as you may, it's true.[/quote]\r\n\r\nDetermined by what exactly?\r\n\r\n[quote]Not really. You think he does nothing, in reality, he is allowing our decisions to go on. And there is no punishment large enough for sin.[/quote]\r\n\r\nEverything regarded as sin are finite actions. If sin is deserving of an eternal punishment that would mean God can't let anything go. Even if this God couldn't it would be pretty ridiculous not to.\r\n\r\n[quote]Yet somehow, we did. I don't get it either, but I have faith in it.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAnd there in is the faulty logic. You don't get it because it makes no friggin sense. You're believing something that is ridiculous and just blindly going with it. Use that brain you think God gave you and think.

it lacks evidence and you or god can't demand us to believe in it, aslong it doesn't give any evidence.

Except for the whole part where I'm not demanding you believe or do anything really, other than learn the capitalize a sentence.

So if w use our free will and don't do what God wants we end up in hell?

Not necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts; most churches would say "Well that sucks have fun rotting in hell forever". If God is merciful, why would he do that?

JWs, Catholics, Mormons, etc say the same thing to each other all the time. If the scriptures were perfect, there would be no interpretation issues.

Amen. And then there would be a single christian sect, not dozens.

Truth is..this "test" isn't fair either. There are many "guidelines" to follow that are downright ridiculous

1 Corinthians 10:10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

Hebrews 10:28-29He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God (so, basically..obey old testament)

This example, while well quoted, has to do specifically with the Children of Israel. They had the attention span of gnats, and could follow almost no commands, so God had to get completely ridiculous with them. I think of it kind of like a discipline place or something, where privileges are revoked and the slightest degree of disobedience is severely punished, only because said folks in that area clearly can't follow normal rules so they have to be given completely ridiculous ones. The "Do or die" policy of God really tapers off in the New Testament.

Why is that? God must have created it, since he created everything. Even if it was created as an absence of good. He made sin apart of the system. For what reason would he do that?

It was more of God created everybody, and then some turned around and betrayed him thus bringing evil into the world. But even if you don't believe that, feast on this tidbit; How would we know good without knowing evil? Happiness without joy? Sorrow without gladness? You wouldn't. Without the other, the first does not exist.

[quote]it lacks evidence and you or god can't demand us to believe in it, aslong it doesn't give any evidence.[/quote]\r\n\r\nExcept for the whole part where I'm not demanding you believe or do anything really, other than learn the capitalize a sentence.\r\n\r\n[quote]So if w use our free will and don't do what God wants we end up in hell?[/quote]\r\n\r\nNot necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts; most churches would say "Well that sucks have fun rotting in hell forever". If God is merciful, why would he do that? \r\n\r\n[quote]JWs, Catholics, Mormons, etc say the same thing to each other all the time. If the scriptures were perfect, there would be no interpretation issues.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAmen. And then there would be a single christian sect, not dozens.\r\n\r\n[quote]Truth is..this "test" isn't fair either. There are many "guidelines" to follow that are downright ridiculous\r\n\r\n1 Corinthians 10:10\r\nNeither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.\r\n\r\nHebrews 10:28-29\r\nHe that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:\r\nOf how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God (so, basically..obey old testament)[/quote]\r\n\r\nThis example, while well quoted, has to do specifically with the Children of Israel. They had the attention span of gnats, and could follow almost no commands, so God had to get completely ridiculous with them. I think of it kind of like a discipline place or something, where privileges are revoked and the slightest degree of disobedience is severely punished, only because said folks in that area clearly can't follow normal rules so they have to be given completely ridiculous ones. The "Do or die" policy of God really tapers off in the New Testament.\r\n\r\n[quote]Why is that? God must have created it, since he created everything. Even if it was created as an absence of good. He made sin apart of the system. For what reason would he do that?[/quote]\r\n\r\nIt was more of God created everybody, and then some turned around and betrayed him thus bringing evil into the world. But even if you don't believe that, feast on this tidbit; How would we know good without knowing evil? Happiness without joy? Sorrow without gladness? You wouldn't. Without the other, the first does not exist.

Not necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts;

So I can kill someone so long as I counter that act by say saving two peoples lives? Morality isn't some sort of point system.

[quote]Not necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts;[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo I can kill someone so long as I counter that act by say saving two peoples lives? Morality isn't some sort of point system.

Except for the whole part where I'm not demanding you believe or do anything really, other than learn the capitalize a sentence.

your god demands me to believe in him or els i will be punished eternally in hell.you are his messenger and thus you demand the same of me.

and i capitalize whatever i want.this is the internet not a important letter.if your getting on high heels over capitalisation then your even more pathetic then i 1st thought.

Not necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts; most churches would say "Well that sucks have fun rotting in hell forever". If God is merciful, why would he do that?

give me evidence of this point system plz.(or any of your other claims)

Amen. And then there would be a single christian sect, not dozens.

you can't all be right. what is the evidence you have that your religion is the right one?you were mormon right? i think that sect is even more of the hook from reality then 99% of the other christian believes.

It was more of God created everybody, and then some turned around and betrayed him thus bringing evil into the world.

so god did not create everything. others made a part aswell. so 1. he is not omnipotent and 2.he is not all knowing. (if he was all knowing he would have knowed that he was going to be betrayed by said "people").

How would we know good without knowing evil? Happiness without joy? Sorrow without gladness? You wouldn't. Without the other, the first does not exist.

but why would god need to have anything to do whit it?plz. give me a link between god and this, whit supportive evidence.

oh wait, you can't you have no evidence what so ever..

So I can kill someone so long as I counter that act by say saving two peoples lives? Morality isn't some sort of point system.

putting it this way, it sounds like karma. and we all know karma doesn't exist, right?

[quote]Except for the whole part where I'm not demanding you believe or do anything really, other than learn the capitalize a sentence.[/quote]\r\nyour god demands me to believe in him or els i will be punished eternally in hell.\r\nyou are his messenger and thus you demand the same of me.\r\n\r\nand i capitalize whatever i want.\r\nthis is the internet not a important letter.\r\nif your getting on high heels over capitalisation then your even more pathetic then i 1st thought.\r\n\r\n[quote]Not necessarily. Think of heaven/hell as a point system. Think of how unfair it would be if you did 1000 points of good acts, and 1000.1 points of bad acts; most churches would say "Well that sucks have fun rotting in hell forever". If God is merciful, why would he do that? [/quote]\r\ngive me evidence of this point system plz.\r\n(or any of your other claims)\r\n[quote]\r\nAmen. And then there would be a single christian sect, not dozens.[/quote]\r\nyou can't all be right. what is the evidence you have that your religion is the right one?\r\nyou were mormon right? i think that sect is even more of the hook from reality then 99% of the other christian believes.\r\n\r\n[quote]It was more of God created everybody, and then some turned around and betrayed him thus bringing evil into the world.[/quote]\r\nso god did not create everything. others made a part aswell. so 1. he is not omnipotent and 2.he is not all knowing. (if he was all knowing he would have knowed that he was going to be betrayed by said "people").\r\n\r\n[quote]How would we know good without knowing evil? Happiness without joy? Sorrow without gladness? You wouldn't. Without the other, the first does not exist.[/quote]\r\n\r\nbut why would god need to have anything to do whit it?\r\nplz. give me a link between god and this, whit supportive evidence.\r\n\r\noh wait, you can't you have no evidence what so ever..\r\n\r\n[quote]So I can kill someone so long as I counter that act by say saving two peoples lives? Morality isn't some sort of point system.[/quote]\r\nputting it this way, it sounds like karma. and we all know karma doesn't exist, right?

Okay, honestly, I don't even know how to say this without insulting you, so sorry in advance. It's stupid to believe something so wholeheartedly when you don't even understand what it's saying.

My religion is all about faith, and most religions are as well.

Only have time for a quick answer:\r\n\r\n[quote]Okay, honestly, I don't even know how to say this without insulting you, so sorry in advance. It's stupid to believe something so wholeheartedly when you don't even understand what it's saying.[/quote]\r\n\r\nMy religion is all about faith, and most religions are as well.

Yes, but you're going beyond that. You said that you believe in it even though you don't understand it. You're taking faith to another level and walking around blindly. It's one thing to claim that you trust God in what his plan is, entirely another to say you don't even know what his plan is or why he even does things and still claim to fully trust.

[quote]My religion is all about faith, and most religions are as well.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes, but you're going beyond that. You said that you believe in it [i]even though you don't understand it.[/i] You're taking faith to another level and walking around blindly. It's one thing to claim that you trust God in what his plan is, entirely another to say you don't even know what his plan is or why he even does things and still claim to fully trust.

Yes, but you're going beyond that. You said that you believe in it even though you don't understand it. You're taking faith to another level and walking around blindly. It's one thing to claim that you trust God in what his plan is, entirely another to say you don't even know what his plan is or why he even does things and still claim to fully trust.

I understand my faith, but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.

[quote]Yes, but you're going beyond that. You said that you believe in it even though you don't understand it. You're taking faith to another level and walking around blindly. It's one thing to claim that you trust God in what his plan is, entirely another to say you don't even know what his plan is or why he even does things and still claim to fully trust.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI understand my faith, but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.

That just says to me that your religion is all about ignorance and blindly believing what you're told without any critical thought. Not a good basis to work from.

but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.

[cheapjab]What Pope?[/cheapjab] :P

[quote]My religion is all about faith, and most religions are as well.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThat just says to me that your religion is all about ignorance and blindly believing what you're told without any critical thought. Not a good basis to work from.\r\n\r\n[quote]but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[cheapjab]What Pope?[/cheapjab] :P

I understand my faith, but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.

1 Peter 3:15 says faith should be readily justified, not blind. Saying "I'm just as unquallified to claim knowledge of God's plans/attributes/qualities/etc as everyone else, but I will anyway" does nothing to support your arguments.

[quote]I understand my faith, but not even the Pope understands the dogmas of catholicism completely.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Peter%203:15&version=NIV]1 Peter 3:15[/url] says faith should be readily justified, not blind. Saying "I'm just as unquallified to claim knowledge of God's plans/attributes/qualities/etc as everyone else, but I will anyway" does nothing to support your arguments.

That just says to me that your religion is all about ignorance and blindly believing what you're told without any critical thought. Not a good basis to work from.

I respect your opinion

1 Peter 3:15 says faith should be readily justified, not blind. Saying "I'm just as unquallified to claim knowledge of God's plans/attributes/qualities/etc as everyone else, but I will anyway" does nothing to support your arguments.

Fascinating.

[quote][cheapjab]What Pope?[/cheapjab] :P[/quote]\r\n\r\nD: please, do shoot me in the head\r\n\r\n[quote]That just says to me that your religion is all about ignorance and blindly believing what you're told without any critical thought. Not a good basis to work from.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI respect your [b]opinion[/b]\r\n\r\n[quote]1 Peter 3:15 says faith should be readily justified, not blind. Saying "I'm just as unquallified to claim knowledge of God's plans/attributes/qualities/etc as everyone else, but I will anyway" does nothing to support your arguments.[/quote]\r\n\r\nFascinating.

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