This is a new thread but it's based on this post by Flintlock (http://www.straightbourbon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15724&page=3#25).

Since Turkey has just cranked up a new distillery, this might be a good time to assess the state of Turkey today. Recently another member here generously shared with me some WT 101 bottled about 20 years ago. It is superb, simply some of the best bourbon ever made. The WT 101 of today can't hold a candle too it.

I don't sense that the best stuff is going overseas, as Flintlock suggests. What I think has happened is that the equivalent of what was bottled as standard 101 in 1993 now gets held for Russell's Reserve, Rare Breed, Kentucky Spirit, and up from there. To get Turkey's best today, you have to at least go with Russell's Reserve, which is about $30 here, and is age-stated at ten years, but is only 40% ABV.

To get the good stuff at the full 50.5% ABV you have to go to the $50 Kentucky Spirit, which remains one of the finest bourbons on that market. It's not age-stated. If you want age-stated, at 14 years, at 101 proof you have to go with WT Tradition, at $100.

While we'd all like to get the best for less, I can't fault what Wild Turkey has done. Their best is still great and still available, you just have to pay more to get it.

But that's just what I think. I started this thread to find out what you think. If you think of it, indicate in your post how long you've been drinking Wild Turkey.

OscarV

05-15-2011, 16:24

I generally agree with Flintlock's rant, his word not mine, in the other thread.
Also Russell's Reserve 45% ABV.

DeanSheen

05-15-2011, 16:38

The old stuff was great. The new stuff not so much.

I think it's sad. I buy Rare Breed once in awhile but that's it.

SMOWK

05-15-2011, 16:56

I recently picked up 5 WT101 Old #8's from 1998 and even those are significantly better than the WT101 of today. The current stuff is still good, but given another 10 years, we'll see....

jcg9779

05-15-2011, 17:06

I haven't had old WT before, but I do like KS and RB, with RB being my favorite WT product that I've tried. I'm not a huge fan of the 101. I'll have to look for some older 101 to try!

ebo

05-15-2011, 17:31

Being a fairly recent convert to Bourbon (4 years), I've never had older Turkey. I have tasted WTKS and I think it is very good stuff. Rare Breed is pretty good, also. I think the 101 is very good for the price. I always have it on hand and drink quite a bit of it. The RR is good, no doubt, but the lack of proof doesn't make it worth the price to me. I hope to taste some older Turkey some day, but untill then, all I have to go on is what I've tasted... and I like WT 101.

MJL

05-15-2011, 17:51

Chuck,
My taste memory is not that good when we are talking decades. I think the fairest way to determine this is to have a side by side tasting. I have about 10 gallons of Wild Turkey 101 in storage (hurricane supply, end of the world stash, etc) that dates to about 2001 to 2009. I perceive no qualitative change so this makes me ask a question. At what point do you think this change over occured?

Special Reserve

05-15-2011, 17:59

Through the 80's and into the mid 90's WT101 was the go to drink for me.

This thread is helping me remember why.

WT101 from back then was a fabulous drink.

Inexplicably after that I drank vodka for awhile. Perhaps it was less expensive. Fortunately that habit didn't last too long.

Addition:

What do I think of WT101 today. I have a bottle on my shelf. It's ok but I'd go for spending about $5 more and getting a OWA 107 actually I really like the NAS bottling.

I think Chuck's assessment is spot on.

Ian S.

05-15-2011, 17:59

I always feel one of 2 ways when I see threads like this one or hear people talk about stuff like this....

1. It seems like "older" is always "better". Being relatively young and new to bourbon, I haven't been able to sample much of the older releases of anything.

2. Simply jealous of the fact that I seem to have missed out on some of the best bourbon ever made simply because of my age.

Has the quality of bourbon gone down over the decades?

StraightNoChaser

05-15-2011, 18:05

What I'm curious to know is if the new distilling facilities will at all impact the quality of WT bottlings across the board. I figure we won't know for quite a while until some of that juice starts getting bottled in the upcoming years

B.B. Babington

05-15-2011, 18:05

...after that I drank vodka for awhile...
It takes a brave man to admit his sins. I went through a gin phase. Filled with remorse, I repented, and have now moved on with my life.

Special Reserve

05-15-2011, 18:07

I always feel one of 2 ways when I see threads like this one or hear people talk about stuff like this....

1. It seems like "older" is always "better". Being relatively young and new to bourbon, I haven't been able to sample much of the older releases of anything.

2. Simply jealous of the fact that I seem to have missed out on some of the best bourbon ever made simply because of my age.

Has the quality of bourbon gone down over the decades?

Some older is better. We don't want to talk or remember the older products that did not measure up.

T Comp

05-15-2011, 19:24

Some older is better. We don't want to talk or remember the older products that did not measure up.

Exactly and most of the knowlegeable contributors in the history of this board have sorted them out. 1995 seems to be the cut-off year for when WT 101 abruptly started its fade. 1995 is still 16 years ago and certainly older but generally not viewed as better.

Chuck himself indicates clearly in his writings that older is not always better and that the golden age of bourbon is now. Here's what he had to say on the other board back in 2009.

"My view is that we live in the golden age of American whiskey and whiskey enthusiasts can only benefit by embracing that fact and reveling in their good fortune to have been born when they were.

These are the good old days.

Rather than viewing dusties as a contrary view, the availability of dusties just adds luster to the current era. There is excellent whiskey in current production, and there is excellent whiskey from years and even decades ago still available, and all of it is reasonably priced.

We are richly blessed.

One thing I will say about dusties. No one goes on the board to say how mediocre a dusty bottle they just opened was. You shout about the great ones. The others you suffer in silence."

His point that WT 101 was an excellent whiskey but no more is far from idolizing the good old days and its too bad that WT has gotten away with it.

Ian S.

05-15-2011, 19:34

Thanks for posting that, some well spoken points.

OscarV

05-16-2011, 02:49

One point was brought about all the good Turkey is for export.
Here is a quote from the WT website;

1980, Austin Nichols is bought by the Pernod Ricard Group, thereby opening an international exporting network for Wild Turkey bourbon.

Since then maybe the export market that has been a major focus by Wild Turkey.
Two years ago Campari bought Wild Turkey and it seems to me in their press release they said something to the effect that Wild Turkey sells very good in Japan and Austrailia and Campari wants to grow the European market.

With their expansion and ramping up production maybe they will let a few good barrels roll into the USA.
Also hopefully they'll bottle it in Lawrenceburg and not Arkansas because as Jimmy Russell said, "by the time it gets to AR it ain't the same whiskey."

Special Reserve

05-16-2011, 04:58

Exactly and most of the knowlegeable contributors in the history of this board have sorted them out. 1995 seems to be the cut-off year for when WT 101 abruptly started its fade. 1995 is still 16 years ago and certainly older but generally not viewed as better.

Chuck himself indicates clearly in his writings that older is not always better and that the golden age of bourbon is now. Here's what he had to say on the other board back in 2009.

"My view is that we live in the golden age of American whiskey and whiskey enthusiasts can only benefit by embracing that fact and reveling in their good fortune to have been born when they were.

These are the good old days.

Rather than viewing dusties as a contrary view, the availability of dusties just adds luster to the current era. There is excellent whiskey in current production, and there is excellent whiskey from years and even decades ago still available, and all of it is reasonably priced.

We are richly blessed.

One thing I will say about dusties. No one goes on the board to say how mediocre a dusty bottle they just opened was. You shout about the great ones. The others you suffer in silence."

His point that WT 101 was an excellent whiskey but no more is far from idolizing the good old days and its too bad that WT has gotten away with it.

We do live in a golden age of bourbon. There are several great bourbons that are periodically available for purchase.

One problem as my daughter pointed out is that expensive drinks are trendy and popular with the 20 something crowd.

Brisko

05-16-2011, 07:26

My first taste of WT was right at the end of the "great" years, probably in '93 or '94. I was about 16.

I don't recall a lot of details, as it was gulped in secret with a friend and probably not properly enjoyed, but it was one of the first bourbons I ever tasted and it has been the benchmark in my mind. Occasionally when trying a new bourbon, I get a fleeting memory of it. The funny thing is that I most often get these "flashbacks" with products that don't actually taste like the old WT-- WLW and Saz 18 are two... so maybe there is another factor causing those memories.

Today's WT is pretty good and I usually have a bottle open but it doesn't really measure up to the old "snuck from the liquor cabinet" expression in my mind.

p_elliott

05-16-2011, 08:01

As most of you know I am a WT nut, I love WT. I have had the older WT 101 it's very good, I have had some of the late 90's WT #8 and it is god awful. The current WT 101 is a very good bourbon for the price. It's my daily pour. One thing I will say about it is I don't drink it after I have drank something else it doesn't follow well. I think the weak link in the WT line is the RR and RR rye. I can't keep a bottle of WTRB in the house I open one up and it's gone. The WTKS is a little pricey for what you get. The special releases have been excellent. Now the down side to my post is I have only been drinking bourbon for 3 years so my opinion may not carry that much weight.

AaronWF

05-16-2011, 08:38

As a whiskey drinker in earnest for only the last six years, I have to say that WT has never figured in to my rotation. When I bought bottles without knowing what I was doing, it was pints of Jim Beam and J&B, and my snobby impression of WT was that it was rotgut motor oil.

This impression was helped along when on a cross-country road trip, I observed the lips-to-bottle dispatching of a handle of Wild Turkey by a shirtless, bandana wearing flat-bed truck driver during rush hour traffic in the outskirts of Atlanta.

I recently sprang for a bottle of RR 6 year-old rye. It's pretty harmless stuff, too sweet for my tastes, only softly hinting at grass and mint. It's also the kind of juice that will wake me up at 4:30 am the morning after drinking it, and not allow me back to sleep.

There's too much great stuff out there to waste my time on a brand with a mid-to-lower shelf reputation and special bottlings in the $100 range. Clearly, WT has a storied reputation, but it seems confused about its own place in the market today. I certainly am confused about it, which is a great reason to wet my whistle with some to find out where I stand on the subject!

IowaJeff

05-16-2011, 09:25

I've only been drinking bourbon, and WT, for about 6 years. I've not had the pleasure of tasting any older WT's. I always have a bottle of at least one WT iteration open. It has a unique flavor profile I gravitate towards.

I've had a lot of the current WT101 and RB. Both I enjoy a lot. The RB has a bit more concentrated, bold flavor. I've had a couple of bottles of the RR10 and liked it, but no more than 101, probably less. It strikes me as a little thin, kind of the opposite of what RB is to 101. I've had drinks of Kentucky Spirit and Tradition/American Spirit, but have never bought a bottle so I don't have much basis to compare those.

Overall I like the unique flavor profile that is consistent across the entire line. Its like Coke, its just unique from other brands.

CADMixes

05-16-2011, 10:57

I've only had limited experiences with the Turkey as well. My first was actually with the rye, which is one of the few whiskeys I've actively avoided since. I make a lot of rye cocktails, and the rye just had too much burn to be a useful ingredient IMO. Later, I gave a friend a bottle of Russell's Reserve as a gift and got a glass myself when he cracked it open. I think the proof complaints are valid, but at 90 proof and around 30 bucks I might take it over Eagle Rare. Recently I picked up some Rare Breed and am really enjoying it--it brings a heat and complexity that a lot of my recent open bottles were lacking.

Still never had the standard 101, though. It's a tough fit into my drinking habits--for sipping I prefer to go to slightly more refined, slightly pricier bottles, or a simple and pleasant wheater like OWSR. But if I'm going out or to a party I'll take something with less alcohol, where overindulgence might be less risky. I'm sure I'll pick up a bottle soon enough though.

CorvallisCracker

05-17-2011, 10:14

I honestly can't remember the last time I bought or drank any standard NAS/101. I usually just buy Rare Breed.

I suppose I should pick up a 200ml.

bourbon-n00b

05-17-2011, 11:16

When I first found my way into serious bourbon drinking (as opposed to swilling Beam and Coke in college) WT101 was my early favorite. I thought it tasted pretty darn good for something I could walk into pretty much any party store and get for around $20.

But then I started finding some of the older 8 year and, like many others here, was blown away by the richness and complexity. After that, the current stuff didn't taste quite as good and I became a little less ardent about it.

Don't get me wrong, it's still fine and way better to me than standard Beam, MM, JD, etc but it's no longer something I'd make a point to grab off a shelf with other viable options.

LikeItWasSodaPop

05-17-2011, 12:26

My dusty finds have been relatively "new" but the WTs I've found from the 90s have straight kicked my ass. My fiance loves them as well -- they are her favorite bourbons.

I don't know what's up with WT today, but after finding WT 8 year and Old #8 (and loving them so much) I am relatively disappointed with current releases. The Russel's Reserve is probably my second least favorite bourbon I've purchased. It makes my stomach churn.

beerfactory

05-17-2011, 15:56

What I think has happened is that the equivalent of what was bottled as standard 101 in 1993 now gets held for Russell's Reserve, Rare Breed, Kentucky Spirit, and up from there. To get Turkey's best today, you have to at least go with Russell's Reserve....

As someone brand new to bourbon, I find this interesting. My assumption is WT did not always have these pricier brands (or at least did not bottle them in sufficient quantity to affect WT101 stock).

Grading meat by marbling and maturity makes sense to me. It would seem the master distillers are looking for a profile and sorting out the whiskey by grade.

With this being a relatively new practice (that is an apparent/alleged "downgrading" of WT101) and assuming WT101 is their bestseller. Would this be good for the long term health of the brand?

also... does Evan Williams do this? I mean to ask: Were I to go looking for "old" EW black label, would the old stuff be better than what I'm drinking right now?

T Comp

05-17-2011, 16:51

As someone brand new to bourbon, I find this interesting. My assumption is WT did not always have these pricier brands (or at least did not bottle them in sufficient quantity to affect WT101 stock).

Grading meat by marbling and maturity makes sense to me. It would seem the master distillers are looking for a profile and sorting out the whiskey by grade.

With this being a relatively new practice (that is an apparent/alleged "downgrading" of WT101) and assuming WT101 is their bestseller. Would this be good for the long term health of the brand?

also... does Evan Williams do this? I mean to ask: Were I to go looking for "old" EW black label, would the old stuff be better than what I'm drinking right now?

Well by relatively new we are still talking about 16 years ago, as it was around 1995 that Turkey aficionados report the drop off in taste. As to the health of the brand, I have no objective numbers but I would bet it has not had any effect at all. a good indication is that seven here have already posted that current 101 is "good", "likes", "no difference", "pretty good", "very good", "enjoy a lot" and "it's still fine". That it's an iconic brand certainly would seem to allow its owners to play around with it more and not suffer any ill effects. Does Jack Daniels sell any less at 80 proof? Corporations excel at monitoring brand strength and loyalty... taste be damned.

sailor22

05-17-2011, 17:08

I have some older Turkey 101 and 86.8 that is just wonderful Bourbon. Both are from the late 80's to early 90's. Also have an older 80 proof that isn't so great.

In blind taste tests where we have included current WT101 with similar priced pours it always scored at or near the bottom. Recently we tasted the 101, the new 81 and an older 86.8. The 86.8 was the favorite by a large measure followed by the new 81 proof and the 101 was a very distant third.

I like some the premium Turkey's like American Spirit and Tradition. The Tribute (if you can find it) is some fabulous Bourbon. Kentucky Spirit is some of my favorite Bourbon with the very first Pewter tops and the dark juice in the smooth dark tops of '92 thru '95 being the choicest of the bunch. I don't enjoy the current Kentucky Spirit at all. Every one I have tasted seems young, hot, not very complex and for those reasons overpriced.

My feeling is that the current 101 is a great mixer with coke but won't make my sipper list. Both the RR Rye and Bourbon are good pours but probably overpriced. The current WT Rye is a good pour and a great value. The current 80 is being phased out so it doesn't count and I have liked both samples of the new 81 I have tasted. Lets hope similar improvements are in store for the 101. It's probably too much to ask that it be as good as the older stuff - but we can hope.

Just my opinion and your mileage may vary.

flintlock

05-17-2011, 18:19

I look forward to the 86.8.

I wonder to what extent bottle shapes and names are decided by focus groups, and I wonder how those focus groups are chosen.

2highcal

05-17-2011, 18:23

My only try with the 101 was a couple of years ago at a bar and I did not like it at all however the Rare Breed I pick up whenever it is on sale and I need new bottles of bourbon

craigthom

05-17-2011, 18:46

also... does Evan Williams do this? I mean to ask: Were I to go looking for "old" EW black label, would the old stuff be better than what I'm drinking right now?

You bet. See if you can find some of the 7 year old on a shelf somewhere.

I've got half a bottle of the WT101 8yo, a small stash of RR101, and a few private barrel KS. I think I'm OK for a while.

White Dog

05-17-2011, 20:37

Taste is so subjective. Here goes:

RR10: It's not bad bourbon, but the fact that this used to be bottled at 101 will always tarnish it in these circles. (Never had it myself, but I keep hunting.)

Rare Breed: Love the stuff, most of the time. Certain days it comes off a bit flat, but more often than not it's a truly great bourbon.

KS: Finally had this, but it was at a bar and I was already over-served. I do remember loving it, and at the time, declared it better than RB.:rolleyes: Who knows, but now I need to actually buy a bottle.

Current WT101: I do like the aggressive nature of this bourbon. It's consistent and iconic, for my tastes. (When Weller 12 is just not getting it done, turning to WT101 can really kick start your palate.)

12yr101 Gold Foil 1989: Found three bottles of this for around $60 and boy am I glad I did. LOVE the stuff. Touch of sweetness up front with a complex, long finish. Wow.:cool: :cool:

Late '80s 8yr 101: Friend of mine has a handle of this stuff and I try it anytime I'm there. Wonderful, and it makes me understand why seasoned Turkey drinkers shed a tear.

RRRye6yr: Hate this crap. Thin and hot.

WT101Rye: One of my favorite NAS Ryes, if not my favorite. That's right Ritt lovers, I said it.:lol:

There you go.

unclebunk

05-18-2011, 07:04

Hit or miss for me. I always have bottles of WT101 and WT Rye in the house but my last bottle of Kentucky Spirit was just "okay" and paled in comparison to my old pewter tops. Rare Breed, at least in my experience, has been more consistent and still ranks among my favorite affordable bourbons.

cowdery

05-18-2011, 13:18

Put yourselves in their shoes. Wild Turkey's 'glut' problems probably were not as bad as those of many other producers, but they had them. By the late-80s, early-90s, they were probably putting whiskey much older than 8-years-old into 101, which still bore the 8-year age statement. They also had the lower proof expression, which was 86.8 proof at the time, the Wild Turkey Rye, a blend called Nichols, the liqueur, and that was it. That was the line. (This is from the 1988 edition of Michael Jackson's World Guide.)

Not long after that they dropped the age statement and rolled out Rare Breed, 12-year-old (subsequently discontinued), and Kentucky Spirit.

It's not hard to figure out. Beam had the Small Batch Collection by then, Blanton's was doing well. "Instead of putting all this 10- and 12-year-old whiskey we have into 101, let's create some new brands with higher price tags." Yes, the robbed Peter to pay Paul, but Paul proved to be a much better earner.

So I think the 101 is what it is. The point of this thread is that Turkey didn't make better whiskey back then, they just sold their best for less. Now you have to pay more to get the good stuff. We'd love if it had stayed like it was, but we're all grown-ups enough to know that couldn't happen.

DeanSheen

05-18-2011, 15:30

Now you have to pay more to get the good stuff. We'd love if it had stayed like it was, but we're all grown-ups enough to know that couldn't happen.But seems like they then robbed Peter to Pay Paul again RE: WTKS. WTKS is not what it used to be and that's a shame.

callmeox

05-18-2011, 16:10

The only real comparison that I can make is on the the WTKS line and the current bottles are nowhere near as luxurious as ones from the pewter top era. It tastes like they are putting younger bourbon in the bottles and it just doesn't match up, though the new bottlings are still a decent pour.

I'm more than willing to hang around until the bourbon from new capacity expansion has time to age fully. As a Turkey fan, I'm hoping that there's enough capacity at the still and in the warehouse to release more aged and longer age stated bottlings.

Jwilly019

05-18-2011, 16:19

But seems like they then robbed Peter to Pay Paul again RE: WTAS. WTAS is not what it used to be and that's a shame.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that WTAS was a one-off and not a continuously bottled product.

Ian S.

05-18-2011, 16:27

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that WTAS was a one-off and not a continuously bottled product.

I also thought this.

CorvallisCracker

05-18-2011, 16:28

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that WTAS was a one-off and not a continuously bottled product.

That's what I thought. In fact, I thought Tradition had replaced it as the high end offering.

Yes, the WT website still shows the AS in the lineup, but it's waaaay out of date.

Ian S.

05-18-2011, 16:32

That's what I thought. In fact, I thought Tradition had replaced it as the high end offering.

Yes, the WT website still shows the AS in the lineup, but it's waaaay out of date.

Released in 2008/09 sometime if I am correct. And yes, it was limited to 24,000 bottles or so, worldwide.

DeanSheen

05-18-2011, 16:37

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that WTAS was a one-off and not a continuously bottled product.

I corrected my post.

In my haste I typed WTAS not WTKS. Same sentiment as Callmeox posted after my post. Sorry about the confusion.

smokinjoe

05-18-2011, 17:25

I corrected my post.

In my haste I typed WTAS not WTKS. Same sentiment as Callmeox posted after my post. Sorry about the confusion.

That's what happens while PWDOJ...:)

T Comp

05-18-2011, 19:24

And does anyone know how much 8 year age stated 101 is exported to Japan every year? It's better that nas 101 but still not close to the extra aged late 80's early 90's variety. Also, do they export age stated 101 to other countries than Japan?

Virus_Of_Life

05-18-2011, 19:35

Also, do they export age stated 101 to other countries than Japan?
Yes, pretty sure the 8 is available in Europe, maybe other places as well.

i like it. out of the current lineup, i've had the 101, KS and RR and i like them all. i did find a handle of the 86.8 proof that i thought was excellent but i haven't had the "old" 101 yet so can't compare it to the current 101. i'm flying to narita shortly and hope to get some 12 yo there (and whatever else may be interesting) and it will be good to see what the current 12 yo tastes like.

currently, i can get a 750ml bottle of 101 for under $20. it is a great pour at that price. like others said, if what made the old 101 so great was older bourbon being sold as the base, 8 yo, well, how can you expect them to continue that?

TNbourbon

05-20-2011, 16:29

...Their best is still great and still available, you just have to pay more to get it.

But that's just what I think. I started this thread to find out what you think. If you think of it, indicate in your post how long you've been drinking Wild Turkey.

I've been drinking Wild Turkey about as long as I've been drinking bourbon -- which dates at least back to when you could still buy WT12 occasionally (at a reasonable price), and KY Spirit had a pewter stopper. I STILL won't pass a bottle of WT12 without taking a taste, if invited (and perhaps without an invite!).
I think, perhaps, they should call what they sell overseas Wild Turkey -- and what they sell domestically 'Tame' Turkey.:rolleyes:

TNbourbon

05-20-2011, 16:35

...Kentucky Spirit is some of my favorite Bourbon with the very first Pewter tops and the dark juice in the smooth dark tops of '92 thru '95 being the choicest of the bunch...
Kentucky Spirit wasn't released until January 1995, with the first bottling runs in September 1994. Those, and many others afterward under the pewter cap, WERE superb.

TNbourbon

05-20-2011, 16:40

...I'm more than willing to hang around until the bourbon from new capacity expansion has time to age fully. As a Turkey fan, I'm hoping that there's enough capacity at the still and in the warehouse to release more aged and longer age stated bottlings.
Me, I'm a free-market capitalist (well, I would be if I had any money:frown:), and I KNOW that market cycles are real (pending the denouement of the American people's Obama experiment) -- so, I'm just hoping to live till the next glut!:cool: :skep:

(I suspect, by then, I'll be of an age when hoarding for the future won't be a temptation!:grin:)

TNbourbon

05-20-2011, 16:45

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that WTAS was a one-off and not a continuously bottled product.
Actually -- and I may be wrong (I was once :rimshot: What! There's NO RIMSHOT smilie?!:bigeyes: ) -- I think when they released it they indicated it would be issued "periodically". Unfortunately, the length of the 'period' is up to WT.

TNbourbon

05-20-2011, 16:47

{Can y'all tell I've not looked in on this thread till now? Sorry for the consecutivedlyness (is that right:skep:?)}

BourbonJoe

05-20-2011, 18:45

I am never too far away from Tim in evaluating special Wild Turkeys. I will say the the one offs like Tribute, American Spirit, Tradition, etc. although different were all very good IMO and pleased for different reasons.
Joe :usflag:

Bourbon Boiler

10-11-2011, 18:56

I figured I'd bump this thread instead of starting a new one to ask this question. I love the dark wooden top WTKS, but have never tried the pewter top. I find the light wooden top to be pretty good as well. I've sampled the Tradition, and thought it was noticably better than the dark wood WTKS. However, I didn't find it to be worth the $100 price tag.

Given this, can I assume that the American Spirit is similar to the Tradition? I'm seeing it being offered for ~$75, which I would consider a good price for the Tradition. For those that have had both, is the one year difference noticable?

jburlowski

10-15-2011, 05:24

IMO, the AS is far superior to the Tradition... better balanced with less oak.

Bourbon Boiler

10-16-2011, 06:53

IMO, the AS is far superior to the Tradition... better balanced with less oak.

Thanks. I declined the opportunity. I love a heavy oak flavor, but I have a feeling I'd like either. I just have a problem with this price point.

ethangsmith

10-16-2011, 12:29

I need some input here. I bought a bottle of Kentucky Spirit about 2 hours from my house and when I got home, I noticed a thick layer of white flakes on the bottom of the bottle. When I drank some, it tasted horrible. The whiskey was still clear, but it severely lacked flavor and was very bitter. I shook it up thinking maybe it had settled, but all it did was kick the white flakes all over the place and make it taste even more nasty. What's the deal? Biggest waste of $50. I'm pissed. REALLY pissed.

smokinjoe

10-16-2011, 17:17

I need some input here. I bought a bottle of Kentucky Spirit about 2 hours from my house and when I got home, I noticed a thick layer of white flakes on the bottom of the bottle. When I drank some, it tasted horrible. The whiskey was still clear, but it severely lacked flavor and was very bitter. I shook it up thinking maybe it had settled, but all it did was kick the white flakes all over the place and make it taste even more nasty. What's the deal? Biggest waste of $50. I'm pissed. REALLY pissed.

No big deal. It happens. Call the retailer and tell him it will be coming back when you get down that way again. I'm sure they'll make everything right. If not, then be pissed.

ethangsmith

10-16-2011, 17:54

Good point. One question though- what exactly is that white stuff? It looks like the stuff snow globes are full of. I noticed my other Wild Turkey bottles have some also, but no where near as much. And they taste fine. Could it be something coming out of the whiskey as it oxidizes? Can it be harmful to drink?

tmckenzie

10-17-2011, 03:31

Most likely it is calcium. If they use the same water they mash with and it has calcium in it, when it hit the alcohol it will precipitate after a while. When you filter it it will get it. So either it did not get filtered right or if they use di water something was wrong there. But it should not make it taste bad.

Enoch

10-17-2011, 05:16

I have several bottles each of WT101 8-year, old no. 8, and current WT101. The 8-year and Old No. 8 are far better than the current, IMHO. I was surprised to read in "The Whisky Advocate" (current issue) that current WT101 is only 4 years old per Russell. This explains it I think.

p_elliott

10-17-2011, 07:07

I have several bottles each of WT101 8-year, old no. 8, and current WT101. The 8-year and Old No. 8 are far better than the current, IMHO. I was surprised to read in "The Whisky Advocate" (current issue) that current WT101 is only 4 years old per Russell. This explains it I think.

I would venture to say someone got their facts wrong. When WT released the WT 81 they said the WT 80 was 4 years old and the new WT 81 would be older more in line with the WT101 like 6 to 7 yrs old. That the WT 101 was 7 to 8 years old.

John Hansell could you do a fact check on the article in question, please? Page 76 column 2 lines 1 & 2.

sailor22

10-17-2011, 11:24

Isn't the 81 a blend of three different ages? Also it seems I have heard the same about the 101 - but younger set of ages.

Pretty sure that's what Jimmy said last week when he was visiting Tallahassee.

OscarV

10-17-2011, 11:57

I thought I heard that WT 81 is just watered down 101.
Unlike the 80, the 80 was younger than 101.

Buffalo Bill

10-17-2011, 13:24

I'm not impressed with my latest bottle of Rare Breed. Still working with it, letting it air ~ still unimpressed. But I have one more bottle of 2005 WTKS and it's working!

Phil T

10-17-2011, 13:45

I've only been drinking Bourbon for 5 months now. WTRB 03 bottling is the only thing I've tried. $35 out the door in state controlled Ohio ..I like it very much, very robust.

ethangsmith

10-17-2011, 14:33

Most likely it is calcium. If they use the same water they mash with and it has calcium in it, when it hit the alcohol it will precipitate after a while. When you filter it it will get it. So either it did not get filtered right or if they use di water something was wrong there. But it should not make it taste bad.

I can assure you this stuff tasted bad. It had almost no flavor to speak of and was thin and bitter. It didn't have the leathery thickness I've found in all the other WT products. I've noticed small amounts of white sediment in all of my WT bottles I have on my shelves. If the stuff didn't taste terrible, I would have drank it all anyway!

BBQ+Bourbon

10-18-2011, 09:00

Like everybody else, I really enjoyed the mid-late 90s WT101. Ditto for the pewter top WTKS and my favorite; Russels Reserve 101.

Current WT101 isn't to my taste. I find it to be thin, hot, young. Great attributes, but not for whiskey.

Buffalo Bill

10-18-2011, 09:19

Like everybody else, I really enjoyed the mid-late 90s WT101. Ditto for the pewter top WTKS and my favorite; Russels Reserve 101.

Current WT101 isn't to my taste. I find it to be thin, hot, young. Great attributes, but not for whiskey.

*Likewise on the mid-late 90 WT's. I had a 99' WTRB that was off-the-charts, incredible. Also had early-to-mid 00's that were very good. The latest? Nada.

Pewter Top WTKS is the best I ever had... done. I'd walk a hundred miles for another bottle. BB

smokinjoe

10-18-2011, 13:55

Like everybody else, I really enjoyed the mid-late 90s WT101. Ditto for the pewter top WTKS and my favorite; Russels Reserve 101.

Current WT101 isn't to my taste. I find it to be thin, hot, young. Great attributes, but not for whiskey.

^
"...I find it to be thin, hot, young. Great attributes, but not for whiskey."

Fall out of my chair funny! :lol: Well done!
:toast:

hectic1

10-18-2011, 15:03

^
"...I find it to be thin, hot, young. Great attributes, but not for whiskey."

Fall out of my chair funny! :lol: Well done!
:toast: yeah Joe...Matty does come up with some good one liners about once a year...glad you caught this one...check back next October for the next funny from him! :D

PS...thanks for blowing Jack and me off this Thursday night! ;)

wormil

10-25-2011, 00:31

According the WT Distillery tour, 101 is made of 6, 8, & 10 year barrels. I can tell from tasting it is not a 4 year and so should anyone else.

I drank 101 in the 80's but I don't remember the flavor after all this time. Then I got away from liquor and into beer then quit drinking entirely until a few years ago. Now I rarely drink anything but whiskey and I love WT products.