kitsko

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:27 PM

I believe we have always treated participating artists with respect. And those who participate should also respect us and our requirement.

Um, no.

vv

If you do not like the prizes, you're more than welcome

not to participate. We are in no way using your screens

for profit. If anything, we are allowing to share your

creativity and are giving you cash points for it.

I really don't see why it matters if we increase or decrease

prize points, it's still a lot better than you having to spend

your own money.

Is that a respectful way to reply to a participant after asking a valid question? (If your answer is yes, something's wrong with you)

And you know better than us?

Perhaps, yeah. I'm an artist and have participated in several contests where the management has had no issues. And specially no threats to cancel the event after a single sign of disagreement.

To us, it simply means we can use your work as our login screen and if GM so wishes, he can use your login screen on his Thai server as well. That's all that we mean. We do not want someone to stop us from using the login screen after the event and simply says he submitted the work "only for the contest, now it is still mine, I don't want you guys to use it." We are rather straightforward in our thinking.

That's what I meant when I said we give you permission to use our artworks for commercial use.

I honestly don't care if you use it once or twice or use it at all, I just feel it's very disrespectful of you to decrease the prizes for THE SAME kind of contest and you even specify that you want cute, beautiful, made with love and care, don't want poorly done works but want us to be original as possible. You also want nice login screens, nothing trollish, nothing incomplete or slapdash. That's a lot of things you want right?

Wait there's more, you also are looking for new login screens, not one we already have. But at the same time we are not rewarding you based on time spent making the item; it is based on the perceived look of your work in our eyes.

So let me see if I got it, you want good art, made with love and care and you can reject poorly done works. And you want us to do all that regardless of how long we might take while you decrease the incentive? That admin, is what I meant by lack of knowledge. You literally have no idea how art works.

IMOGEN

Posted 24 April 2016 - 04:39 PM

I believe we have always treated participating artists with respect. And those who participate should also respect us and our requirement.

By respect I mean recognizing the efforts of your artists and compensating them a fair amount. I don't care about the reward going from 50k to 30k. Many others don't seem to as well - and that's because we're all participating because we want to genuinely add to this server.

However, unlike the original Trickster who already has an in-house team of artists and freelancers, this event - while still purely casual - should be looked upon with more care. For us, the work that is eventually chosen as login screen art seems to be the only way that the admins can add any brand spanking new content (as far as illustrations are concerned). No, this doesn't mean I think horrible contracts should be signed by the winners, but it also helps for the admins to recognize just how much more important winning entries actually are.

The reward reduction does raise eyebrows because it seems like purely an error of the admins fault when they were considering the "functionality" of winners' work and amount of MS given out. I personally don't think - because in some ways, it is punishing the artist - that the reward being dropped for this event was a good way to try and fix this problem the second time around. Maybe choose less winners if the quality of work isn't favorable. Give more specific art requirements for drawing content (what a client SHOULD do, but I digress in reference to my previous post) seeing that last time too many people submitted Christmas-specific entries that could be used. If logistics are brought into this, the server only loses a 50 USD donation (125k MS) if prizes are brought back to the old amount (20k more per winner to 5 x 20k =100k, 2k per additional entry, ~11 x 2k = 25k). 30k is somewhat of an absurd amount - that's not even 15 USD.

But I want to point out this still isn't fully an issue of numerical amount. It's about realizing that user-submitted art on rTO is important to the "survival" of the server. Even though they're not related to this contest, I want to bring up the call for player-submitted wing designs since it's no secret that these wings will directly be used as a means of generating money. If anything, fully-unique wing designs should be compensated more than login screens because they will be the only new pixel art that rTO can get right now. Login screens are just (very attractive) window dressing.

tl;dr For that, for this contest, and for anything else that comes up in the future - at the very least players should be paid more not because everyone is asking for it, and not because it's the respectful thing to do, but because it adds to the reputation of an establishment that's teetering between being professional & fair and casual but messy with error. No matter what the medium is, at bare minimum more payment means more people interested in making new work. 30k MS is fine, but the server is going to have trouble getting new, unique content if the admins view art merely as charity rather than the service it actually is.

Tathagata

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:31 PM

Tathagata

Caballa Relics Explorer

Members

82 posts

LocationDenmark

IGN:Akuma, Tathagata

Class:Gambler, Light Witch

Level:23x, 27x

So let me see if I got it, you want good art, made with love and care and you can reject poorly done works. And you want us to do all that regardless of how long we might take while you decrease the incentive? That admin, is what I meant by lack of knowledge. You literally have no idea how art works.

It is also a fact that people is free to participate or not depending if they feel its worth it... Noone is forcing you to participate...

I do understand art as i am an artist myself (even if not professional as i dont get money from it, only doing it for the joy of it in my free time)

Yes i do get that it was a normal question too, but still I dont see how Paylette was wrong in her answear?

We get people complaining all the time cause they dont like the prizes even if they get something for free they still complain its not as good or not what they wanted... Not just often... ALL the time... really... what admin/GM choose to give or choose to use and all that is all up to them... This is just what they thought as fair and then that is it...

Again if the prizes isnt okay for your time spend then its fair enough if you dont wanna participate... Its your own choise really... I certainly do understand that some people see it as a small amount if they work with making art and selling it and all that... then this might seem like an insignificant amount, that i certainly understand... If you want to spend your precious time elsewhere making something you can actually make money on, then thats fair enough too... noone really forces you to participate...

For why i would participate of course some MS would be nice... also so i dont have to spend that much... But the main reason why i myself would also love to participate is cause i would feel so proud if my work was used and someone liked it... But then again i dont make a living of my work either xD Plus i dont have that much free time so might not participate either way (not sure yet)

But i think the general discussion here is that we hear complaints ALL THE TIME about stuff that we give people for free... it can be kind of annoying to listen to... of course if a lot of people enjoy it too then its great I can see some people here is also happy about the events which is great to see but in general online all the negative comments is just filling up everywhere... (not just on here) so its also understandable that people get tired of that... which might be why someone instantly goes offensive with just the smallest things... cause that's what we're kinda used to sadly :/

well my point is just, please take it easy people ^^ if you dont like the prizes, dont participate... If you dont mind then feel free to join we love to see your art even if its not the best you can so if you dont have time to do it better (or just dont feel like its worth it)... thats fine too but really... relax ^^ I dont understand why people wanna start a fight over free stuff anyway... (or free in the matter of working a bit for it in this situation thou but its still stuff that you can get if you wanna try...)

sorry if this have offended anyone D: i'm really trying my best to understand and look at it from everyones point of view here ^^' I just feel like this fighting is getting a bit overboard and all over the place really... everyone is doing the best they can ^^'

kitsko

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:48 PM

Guys, you keep saying "free". You are not giving free stuff, this is a contest, you're essentially exchanging someone's time and effort translated into a piece of art for virtual currency.

I'll participate, and probably so will other people who don't agree with the prize decrease.

You're taking things way too personally because you have been "attacked" in the past, this was a simple discussion over the reason why you decreased the prizes. I'm not complaining that I want more or that the current prizes suck,I just wanted an explanation, and I got it. Sadly it's not the best, but that's the way it is.

Tathagata

Posted 24 April 2016 - 05:58 PM

Guys, you keep saying "free". You are not giving free stuff, this is a contest, you're essentially exchanging someone's time and effort translated into a piece of art for virtual currency.

I'll participate, and probably so will other people who don't agree with the prize decrease.

You're taking things way too personally because you have been "attacked" in the past, this was a simple discussion over the reason why you decreased the prizes. I'm not complaining that I want more or that the current prizes suck,I just wanted an explanation, and I got it. Sadly it's not the best, but that's the way it is.

did you even read my comment through? ^^' guess not... oh well

And i'm sorry you feel that way about it, but it is a fact that people easily get on the edge when they get attacked all the time... its normal human reactions which sadly isnt that easy to get rid of :/ and yeah the reason is basicly just that its what admin/GM decided was the best prize, not much more to it ^^' low or not people may think what they want...

But yeah, sorry if you felt the answears wasnt the best for just your question... I'm sorry for that... At the end of the day we're all just human beings that lets feelings control some things even if we dont like it i just hope that we can come to a peaceful agreement to this all and stop this discussion for the sake of the contest and the people that really wanna participate... ^^ And of course I look forward to see your entry too

Aran

Posted 24 April 2016 - 06:05 PM

Aran

Head Moderator

Administrators

4324 posts

IGN:Arantir

Class:Thief Master

I think we should close this event for now. It is not desperately needed, and all these argument simply takes the fun out of it. Those who have submitted their entries, I will contact you shortly after the maintenance tomorrow and give you the consolation reward.