>>62930731Wizards. I unironically believe every other caster in the game is more flavorful, balanced, and all around healthier for the game than class that's a walking collection of cheat codes with no real themes or limits.

>>62930731DnD players. By this I mean people who have ONLY ever played DnD. Even if the game I'm running is DnD, the people who have never played anything else are usually obnoxious turbo-faggots who are WAYYYY too into "DnD'isms" and usually shit at actually roleplaying.

>>62931035Too bad schools don't actually impose any limitations in nu-DnD. You don't lose access to anything by picking a school in 5e. Fuck, 90% of wizard players pick Divination while only knowing like 0-2 Divination spells because the Divination school perks are so fucking overpowered.

>>62930981Cool. Someone who's only ever played DnD wants to branch out and try something new. Are they just not allowed? Like I get your point of not wanting retards who see every Tabletop as "dnd but this", but some people have only played dnd, because it's all they've played.

>>62931114>Divination spells are usually an extremely good use of a spell slot in situations where the spells are useful>Divination has a feature that refunds the spell slots at a lower level so you can keep using them.

Meanwhile

>Evocation is generally considered a poor use of spell slots in almost every situation>School features don't refund any spell slots>Literally just let you avoid hitting allies (which is easy to do in the first place) and half damage on save cantrips (of which only like 3 exist and 2 suck). >Only feature to actually increase damage doesn't come online until level 14 and still worse than a Sorcerer using quickened/empowered spells or Warlocks spamming Agonizing Eldritch Blast most of the time

Fuck, why is Wizards of the Coast SO shit at designing classes. The worst part is, you can't even homebrew fixes because if you make any homebrew giving wizards anything ever people start autistically screeching about how wizards are already super overpowered, even if it's for the shitty wizard classes nobody ever plays like Evocationist or Enchanter.

>>62930731>character named God>"fuck this campaign premise let's be pirates">gimmick that's going to be stale or ignored within 3 sessions or less>D&D>real-life controversy

>"hey can I play <video game character>?"While honesty is appreciated, I prefer to have players apply at least a little creativity in covering up ideas stolen from other fiction. If he can sneak it in without me figuring out he stole it from a video game, then it's okay. Same goes for characters from other media as well.

>Nonhuman fantasy races as PCsLet's be totally honest here; you were just going to play the character as a human anyway, and it wouldn't present any meaningful obstacle even if you didn't. The intent is to focus your effort on making your character enjoyable within the story instead of fapping to your character's ears or scales.

>ERP, sex-assault, or otherwise excessive focus on sexThis is not why I'm roleplaying. If you do end up bedding someone, then you get a single line alluding to how much fun it was, which may or may not involve me trolling you. All forms of sex-assault are out of the question; in any place I would normally feel tempted to include it, I'll instead use a placeholder like eating someone alive or making someone play scrabble.

>stress disordersUnless otherwise specified, all player-characters shall be considered to have normally-functioning stress responses. They may experience terrible dreams or an all-consuming need for vengeance, but their minds are their own and they need not otherwise face the burden of long-term mental harm.

>Social skills or fear compelling PCs to actionPlayers are ultimately in charge of their characters' choices. Wherever a PC might normally be dissuaded (i.e. failing a willpower test against intimidation, fear, or demand for surrender), they may act contrary to their instincts, but at a short term/one-scene penalty to represent shaken nerves. The intent is to make willpower meaningful without degrading player agency.

>>62931411>>Nonhuman fantasy races as PCsThis. I used to think this was a meme until I actually tried my hand at DMing and realized how wrong I was. The only things that happen when you make non-human races playable is that you now have to balance every race against humans in order for them to be fair playable options, which completely dumbs down anything unique or alien about them, and when non-humans are playable it causes people to focus more on WHAT their character is than WHO their character is.

The elves of myth are supernatural, they're Neighbours, from the other side and so forth. DnD made elves mundane, fellow travellers instead of strangers.

>>62930969Underrated post.Also my only real 'red flags' are people who are hyper-competitive out of character. People who insist that every scene and combat be about them and their character, people who constantly one-up you in conversations about how much they know about whatever you're talking about, just generally annoyingly self-centered people who would rather throw a fit about things not going their way than pretty much anything else.In-character, whatever, that's just part of the fun. There's a line there for a reason. But I'm more annoyed by people out of character than I am in character.

>>62931654They're not overPOWERED, no, but they are overVERSATILE. Wizards can built to be able to fill almost any role in a party, usually better than characters who are SUPPOSED to fill that role, and their only real limitation is having to take a long rest to change which spells they've got prepared. All the other casters in the game, like Clerics, have clearly defined roles and spell lists that reinforce that role.

In DnD's case it doesn't help that magic is so shittily designed that most spells feel like a way to bypass encounters and game content outright rather than engage with it. Most of the spells which you can cast in 6 seconds in DnD should be multi-hour rituals that require rare components or stars aligning or SOMETHING besides "Lol I said a quick haiku and now we're all invisible lol!"

And lets not even get into how much WotC hates giving Martials options to do ANYTHING that's not just killing things better. Or how the "skill" system takes up 2 whole pages in the PHB while spells are over 100. Or how skill "prficiency" only makes you 5-20% better at something you're supposedly an expert at compared to someone who's never done the thing in their life.

Honestly... just fuck DnD in general. I'd rather play something else but other games don't actually get played or have player bases, so fuck me I guess.

>>62930731Furries/scalysAssholesRapeGratuitous torture (edgy 14 taking glee in being descriptive, the act of torture while avoiding excessive details is okay)Slutty character with no other real traits, mostly because they are either thirsty as fuck dudes or girls who want to make sure that all the saugages in the party see her as not a prude because the turbovirgin dudes get upset if a woman doesn't want to sleep with everythingWeeb shitStupidity

>>62933083I think it's the former magnified by the latter - because they know no one can punch them in the face for being a twat, they feel they can allow their inner twat to blossom at the expense of people who should be their allies. As if working together is a punishment to be resisted even on pain of death (though given the state of public schools and the 'I'm the only one actually doing this team project' meme, it might be more understandable in that framework). I know I can't stand that kind of mindset and I've always been a dirty burger.

Weirdly, for me the limit is Canadians. Every experience I've had with them has been nothing but passive aggressive jabs about how the game would be better if their 'suggestions' for improvement would be taken on board. I also find they're the ones who demand that caster supremacy be a thing in any setting with magic.

>>62933479You'd think so. Maybe it's the Canadians who willingly come here, my neck of the woods is located roughly 1/3 of a mile from the surface of the sun - might be that they send their crazies over as a form of execution via melting.

>>62930731Nothing I'll really forbid, but I've been playing with the same group of people now for like 70 sessions and they know better than to test me.

>>62931720Really? My players are constantly trying to get themselves underground and into the underdark.

They just really seem to enjoy all the sessions involving spelunking, light management, fighting terrifying abyssal horrors, enchanted fungal forests, and managing their way through labyrinthine cave/mine/tunnel systems.

>>62931794Because rape is a special case that is more real to modern westerners than something like flaying or cannibalism. If you really need something like this spelled out to you then you may just be an autist.

>>62930918>>62931758Wizards should have been limited in their spell selection based on the school they chose. The problem is that then WotC would have had to put a useful set of spells at ever spell level for every school, which they clearly aren't capable of.

>>62934043>I'm not sure you understand the difference between a furfag and someone just playing a beastfolk characterOh I know the difference, i just wanted to make sure that you did , i know lots of people who think that any non-human characters is furry pandering.

>>62930731>You walk through the woods with your hand on your sword>You've heard rumors about this place, the elves don't take kindly to outsiders>"CHEEKI! CHEEKI BREEKI!">You know that sound! The innkeeper told you that's their warcry!>You draw your blade and tensely wait for any movement>Suddenly three creatures clad in strange, shiny and wide fitting clothes descend from the trees, landing in a squatting position>One of them speaks up in broken common>"YOU HUMAN, YES? YOU WANT... HOW YOU SAY... NA ZDROWIE?">Another pulls out a bottle with a strange substance>You've heard rumors of their "fire water", supposedly a substance more harmful than alchemical fire>You step back as each of the elves takes a shot>"NA ZDROWIE MIEDZIMORCE! NA ZDROWIE MIEDZIMORCE!">They keep chanting this over and over while taking shots and dancing around>You slowly back away, thanking Pelor for the fact that you lived to tell the tale

>>62931794Because it's one of those things that can really make the game worse either because it's someone's magical realm or because someone at the table can't handle it/ doesn't want to deal with it. Nothing wrong with outright banning the topic.

>>62932801Heracross looks cute but those actual beetles are nightmare fuel. I can't believe Japanese elementary schoolers not only pick them up but actually make them fight for entertainment.

Holy shit man I fucking hate insects I hate them so much that I still have Fallout 3 sitting in my steam library. Just fucking sitting there. I hate radroaches, I hate fire ants, I HATE THEM ALL. Even mods that turn them into ghouls don't solve the problem of those SKITERRY SKITTERING SOUNDS.

I wish I could just not be a pussy and play the game. If I had a friend or something I could just have them sit in the same room as me as I rekt some fireants until it stopped being scary.

>>62933204>>62933656Dude, that's just Canadians. It's like a culturally ingrained trait that they pretend to be inoffensive, but they're all incredibly passive-aggressive and their worldview makes no fucking sense. You're just seeing that bleed into hobbies.

>>62930731>Notable RoyaltySon of a Duke/Baron? I'll allow it. There's a level of "Never 'eard of 'em" to that.Bastard of the king/queen? Great. That's fun to work with.Crown Prince/Princess of the Realm? No. Unless you want to be the party's damsel in distress.>>62931411I ruined a party of twerps who said "fuck it let's be pirates/bandits."

>>62933536The same way the Big Bang Theory does it: with a laugh track.

Now I want to see exactly that. I want to see a brutal, violent, bloody rape scene with kicking and screaming and clear resistance where eventually a big orc dude just batters her face into a bloody pulp until she's too broken to even resist and just lies there, trying to hold back her tears as a dick way too thick for her vagina rams its way through as the air is filled with agressive grunts and suppressed whimpers. Except sometimes there's a laugh track that coincides with an awkward pause in the rape scene.

Then, after the rape is over, the elf's husband comes home and throws a pie in the orc's face. Then there's an even louder laugh track than before and the orc fingergun's the elf bro with a goofy smile, as if he's thinking "classic elf bro!"

>>62933944Yeah, but by your same logic If I just host a game in Africa, i wouldn't be allowed to include flaying, cannibalism or rape in my settings because it might upset those players because they might have real life experiences with that.

If something real isn't allowed in your setting because it's too real for your players then perhaps you need to deal with people who are more well acquainted with/grounded in reality. (Or pull a *no guns in my setting* but substitute guns for rape, dont even change the convoluted reasoning)

>>62934599wizards in what kind of games? in most games that i have played they fill a role of being the best dps characters and im not even talking about mmorpg. Put an STRONK tank in the front for taunting and let the wizard cast an AOE spell. When he runs out of mana begin to kill with said tank and rogue.

>>62934910Oh, fuck off, you're just trying to justify throwing it in because you're the guy he's trying to avoid. It isn't cool to use tabletop games to get off while you creep out everyone at the table. You're like the faggots trying to make loli a free speech issue, we all know what you're really doing and we just don't want to be party to it.

>>62930969>dutch"the problem with having six dutch guys as playtesters is that these are the people whose ancestors when looking for some arable land stopped at a pleasant stretch of sea said 'pull up some walls lads, we plant here' "-some guy pharaprased

So if it's a truely non sexualized beastrace I may allow certain players to play them, but I have one particular player who is a furry who will pitch a fit Everytime I tell him no towards any beast race. Beyond lizardfolk (& my particular way of portraying them) & maybe a few out lying cases, I have a blanket ban, because they don't play them as something strange, & try to act like the "gentle giant"/Tumblr "*clomps you" type speach when portraying them

>>62934910>If I just host a game in Africa, i wouldn't be allowed to include flaying, cannibalism or rape in my settings because it might upset those players because they might have real life experiences with thatExactly. There's also the issue of the key difference in experience for the victim. Being flayed it cannibalized? You're dead. Being raped? You're not dead, but now the GM has forced a traumatic personality shift onto your character.

In the end everything is fine if the group signs off on it, obviously, but if you're in a scenario where you're considering what is and isn't allowed then it's perfectly reasonable to keep rape out.

>>62935595It has nothing to do with affecting me or anyone at the table. I explained why rape is a special case and why people would want to keep it out of their games. If you're so autistic that your GM asking you to not rape someone in character is a problem then clearly you're the one with an issue here.

>>62935372Look faggot. Rape is not equivalent to torture or cannibalism. It isn't, you cannot in anyway justify it being so. It is it's own separate brand of evil & no one needs that shit to happen in a hobby so often that the fact of it's inclusion/exclusion is an affront to you're "realism".

>>62935547>national identityIt's not "national identity", it's a former KGB agent old enough to be your dad, filling multiple office buildings with writing majors and telling them to shitpost about poland, in the hope of making the world okay with invading them.

>>62935761Yes but the player decides how that happens and what specifically affects them. Your GM doesn't turn to you and say "Your character is appalled by the brutality of the orcs and you now have a phobia of them getting you and irrationally hate them." If your character is raped you're forced into changing your character.

>>62935595I can go to the fucking movies & understand it's a fucking movie separate from reality, but I dont want to watch a movie featuring rape, & I don't see anybody saying "Hey, why doesn't Disney Princess x get raped by villain Y?" being thrown around for "realism's" sake. Anyone asking for that is open about their disgusting fetishes. It's the same fucking principle

>>62935832No it doesn't, if your character is captured and deprived of food, you don't have to make that change them. No one walks out of a rape like "Eh that sucked but everything's still cool." Just like you wouldn't walk away from being cannibalized or flayed alive thinking like that, if you could walk away from them in the first place.

>>62935872Yes it does. Everything negative that happens to your character from starving, to being seriously injured, to losing comrades in a fight, to being mentally attacked by spells, to seeing horrors rise up undead, to being set on fire can all and SHOULD change your character, if you're really trying to roleplay your character.

>>62935726If you can't stand insults get off 4chan. Did you really think you could participate in a fun hobby like posting on the internet & not get insulted? It's what "realistically" happens faggot. If you can't deal with your trauma, maybe don't post on the internet

>>62935920>roleplaying means everything must affect characters exactly how it affects real people, and I always change my character's personality according to recent events because playing as an unfeeling husk of a person who has shut themselves off because of trauma is so much fun

>>62936108You said everything should affect your character. The realistic reaction to everything the average RPG character puts up with on a daily basis is to stop feeling things, we have plenty of evidence that being surrounded by death and constantly afraid of dying turns people into unfeeling husks, especially when they then have to walk back into civilization and try to integrate with normal people.

>>62936196Everything SERIOUS should affect your character. It's up to you what you decide is serious, but for me the stuff I listed is pretty serious. Just as serious as rape.

Different people respond to trauma in different ways. Some people might joke, others might drink or do more self destructive things, yet others might turn inward, or seek hedonistic activities or turn to family or religion.

That's part of the fun. The challenge and engagement of turning a piece of stats upon a sheet of paper and roleplaying deep interesting characters. Turning a one dimensional thing into a fully realized person.

>>62930731>not allowing noble Mateusz Szymon Krzesiński of the Endless Forest, along with Grzegorz Kazimierz Trutwa, Weaver of Nature and Aldona Balbina Kołodziejczak, Beauty of a Thousand Smiles to experience the epic fights against german dvarves, ukrainian gnomes and russian spirits

>>62936298>Different people respond to trauma in different ways.This is untrue, shell shock's symptoms are ubiquitous, so ubiquitous that the only people who can help veterans deal with their ptsd are other veterans with ptsd. If you're being as realistic as you're claiming you are then every character you play that dives into lich lairs and outlives a few friends should develop some degree of shell shock.

>>62936601if the culture of the group of npcs is burn, kill, steal, and overall hedonism. Then logistically some of them will rape, especially after seeing others in the group do it.It's ok if you like playing babby settings though, enjoy your ''''''''''''''''savage'''''''''''''''''''''''' hordes

>>62936601>1 in 4 women claim to have been sexually assaulted in the modern civilized west>thinks that most of the savages who rape and pillage in the era of "might makes right" didn't rape and pillage

>>62936683I didn't imply that you illiterate mong. I implied you didn't read the conversation, missed where I already said group permission is key, and then accused me of moving goal posts when I brought it up again.

>>62936671Yeah you're right. Rape makes games better because it's more realistic, that's why every player has to go into detail about where their character is pooping and peeing while they travel and how they clean themselves and dispose of their waste. Then every day they have to roll to see if they have a crippling toothache because they've not been cleaning their mouths either. Some may call it autistic, but realism is worth it.

>>62936559>generic torture is just sadism without a point and can't really be justifiedNot exactly, since a lot of times torture isn't without a point and does have a justification. A lot of evil organizations use it as a way to get what they want (both in fiction and IRL)

>Fair enough about the cannibalism, except it also assumes murder which is finalIt does not. These are two separated things. A clear/real example of a murder-free cannibalism is dire situations where people are starving, someone dies first and get eaten. Also, murder is so broad it is hard to say how evil it is. Killing someone in a war? Killing someone in self-defense? Etc. Thus, if you kill someone in legit self-defense then eat that person, how bad is the eating part?

I honestly don't consider cannibalism itself anywhere bad. We eat other mammals anyway. People think it is an absurd because they instantly picture a serial killer or some fictional savages that do it solely because they enjoy it. But really, if I was in a situation where eating a human corpse seemed reasonable for my survival, I wouldn't give two squirts of piss about it.

>>62936799>this amount of salt over fictional worldbuilding logicif the action is an integral logically consistent part of the worldbuilding then it is absolutely stupid to ignore it even if it belongs to one specific group that your players may interact with. >>62936818thanks for the (You) i guess

>>62936862Why is the rape integral? Can the savages only reproduce through rape? You, as the GM, have decided that rape must be integral, what I am telling you is that if you just never bring up rape then I guarantee that no one without a rape fetish is going to stop you and say "Um, anon why don't the barbarian hordes rape people from villages they destroy?"

>>62936836>isn't without a point and does have a justificationI guess that's purely subjective and we'll have to agree to disagree.

>A lot of evil organizationsI pretty much ignore what they have to say about things.

I think there's the other part of cannibalism, which is how to treat the dead. Most cultures and religions have specific prescriptions on how those are to be treated so doing something different is just kind of messed up like murder, but cosmically or eternally fucked up because you're desecrating their eternal spirit or whatever.

>>62936962>if you just never bring up rapeAnd conversely if you bring it up because it happened in the setting, nothing bad will happen either.

What bothers me the most about this guy is that he insists that rape MUST not only be included but stressed in a "realistic" game. It can't be implied, it has to be foregrounded, apparently.

The implication of rape is already there when you say that a savage horde pillaged a town and kidnapped those they didn't kill. I don't see why one should dwell on it if the majority of players aren't comfortable with it.

>>62936962>Why is the rape integral? when you say in explaining a group that they are complete savages, it conjures up images of tribals/vikings/indians depending on what kind of people you are playing with. Also as stated before in this thread, people consider rape WORSE than eating another human even if that human is currently being eaten alive so mentioning that they rape the villiages that they pillage add to how utterly evil they are without having to say that they're worshipers of some devil or some other roundabout way of saying they are evil>Can the savages only reproduce through rape?>I guarantee that no one without a rape fetish is going to stop you and say "Um, anon why don't the barbarian hordes rape people from villages they destroy?"i've had both of these come up in game before to give the players reason to never side with the savages, also as i said it is assumed that when you start to talk about viking like people in an already harsh world they will think of rape

>>62937026>insists that rape MUST not only be included but stressed in a "realistic" game.literally implying/projecting> It can't be impliedit usually only ever is implied, i only outright say it if a player asks >I don't see why one should dwell on it if the majority of players aren't comfortable with it.you're literally the one dwelling on it by trying to exclude it outright

>>62933536Drunken date rape. He felt so guilty afterwards that he proposed to the orc girl then and there and they actually turned out to be a lovely couple partially because the orc didn't realize she'd been "raped", as orc courting rituals tend to be...rather aggressive. And just as fueled by booze.

>>62937009>nothing bad will happenYou don't know that. Some people, victims or not, are understandably uncomfortable about the topic and let's not forget, we play games to have fun, not to have our sensibilities pushed. If you include rape in the foreground of a game without clearing it with your players then you're doing the same thing as people who shove their politics into a game.

>>62936548Not sure how modern veterans really apply to fantasy psuedomedieval games though.

Most soldiers these days deal with being blown up while driving, or being shot by a bullet from a gun they've never seen, or being shelled by artillery or a drone strike. and obviously dealing with the death of their comrades through such means. IE. death at any moment out of the blue. They have to be constantly alert 24/7 365 and face sudden death without warning which frays their nerves.

Compare this to a medieval soldier or ancient soldier. Most of the time their campaigns were sitting around training, marching long distances, setting up camps and fortifications, etc. Most of the time they're super bored. They fight only a couple days a year, and they always see the thing they're fighting. Outside of disease they basically are safe 95% of the time. They don't need to be on edge all the time.

Plus, they might be a very superstitious lot who believes that as long as they make their prayers and sacrifices and their god of war or whatever smiles upon them, they'll always be victorious.

>>62937140>are understandably uncomfortableSure. That's fine. Games like other form of media and entertainment should provide positive and negative feedback. Horror should scare and shock you. Comedy should make you laugh. Action should make you excited. All emotions are good and useful and you shouldn't be scared of trying to create them.

>>62937143I'm not comparing warfare now to warfare in a pseudo medieval fantasy world. I'm comparing warfare now to going dungeon diving into a tomb where every tile could be a trap and every noise could be a mindflayer and you've also had to watch your friend get picked to the bone by carnivorous cockroaches.

Nah, man. My two main groups are pretty much "anything goes", since we don't have any creepy fetishists and everyone is rather well-adjusted. However, the point of the thread is about ruling out something to maintain a good game and you're super butthurt that some tables might not be comfortable with rape as if this is incredibly detrimental to enjoying games of make-believe.

>>62937191But you should though, let's not kid ourselves that our games are some form of high art provocateuring. We play these games to have fun, some people don't find talking about rape fun, so you ask before hand.

>>62937009>we'll have to agree to disagreeno problem; feel free to disengage the discussion at any time

>I pretty much ignore what they have to say about thingsThough i'm not saying it is right or anything, just saying that torture can occur without a sadistic intent (though a torturer, in my opinion, is always evil, at least to some degree)

>I think there's the other part of cannibalism, which is how to treat the dead>Most cultures and religions have specific prescriptions on how those are to be treatedBut that is subjective as well. There are/were cultures that considered cannibalism an honorable thing to do to someone dead. And since we are theoretically talking about things these things occurring on a fictional setting, not necessarily our common IRL traditions of how to treat the dead applies

>doing something different is just kind of messed up like murder, but cosmically or eternally fucked up because you're desecrating their eternal spirit or whateverWell, if you don't A) believe these things B) is doing it intentionally to piss other people off, those are not really relevant. I mean, rape/torture will always be a bad thing because someone will suffer it. But if you cannibalize a corpse in a culture that believes it is just a corpse, then there isn't any harm done

>>62937253>you're super butthurt that some tables might not be comfortable with rape as if this is incredibly detrimental to enjoying games of make-believe.you're still projectingI'm only posting because of the LITERALLY illogical choice to make something as universal as a savage horde fucking babby tier by removing the fact that they would rape. I never said to outright mention it, or to start describing the act, I simply said that it is illogical that they would not, and if a player asks to make sure then to simply say yes. Any other assumptions about my 'side of the argument' are literally trash projections

>>62937319the crusaders didn't rape, I mean... since basically everyone is religious it would make sense that the hordes had some taboo against one action even if it is morally better than alternatives they take

>>62937191The issue with this argument is that some people don't like being scared, so they don't go see scary movies. If they walked into a Disney movie that became a slasher they'd have every right to be upset. Just like when someone comes to play a game about wizards and dragons and you drop rape on them.

>>62936671Savage hordes also didn't kick down doors and rape the baker's wife right there on the kitchen table. Absolutely every time rape is included in games to be "realistic," it is then preformed in the most ludicrous manner possible. It's nothing more than gratuitous, edgy fetish fuel for autists like you.

>>62937353And yet, if the game is described as dark or mature then they shouldn't be surprised by it.

By the same token, people shouldn't complain that there are people who like horror and want to see them, even if they personally don't. Like some people are doing in this thread about rape and similar subjects.

>>62937384This entire discussion was started because one guy said they don't allow rape in their game. No one has said that nobody should have rape in their game. The hardest stance anyone has taken is that you should ask your players if they're okay with it before you even start playing the first session.

>>62937353Complaining about rape happening in some fantasy setting with capital E evil and genuine monsters is about the same tier as complaining about deep ones showing up in a Call of Cthulhu game. What did you expect?

Don't sit down at the table if you can't handle it or can't separate fantasy from reality.

>>62937348>crusaders what are you talking about? they're basically anti savage hordes, at least when considered historically from a certain point of view>>62937361>implying I'm any other anon's in this threadi've literally only talked about the worldbuilding aspect of having a savage horde in your game after someone else brought it up>>62937357>implying implications AGAINwhen did i ever state any of that? link me the post

>>62937485Give me a single reason rape needs to be explicitly mentioned in the game that isn't "because it's dark and realistic". Then give me a single reason why it's unreasonable to ask your players about it before they join.

>>62937549I've been here since the beginning, anon. No one has said rape should not be allowed anywhere. People initially asked why the person would exclude rape in the first place, and others told them why it would be different than torture for many westerners.

>>62937319>LITERALLY illogical>in a *FANTASY* setting not bound by logic at all

Well Anon, we've discovered your personal problem. You're unable to distinguish between "My personal 'suspension of disbelief' is limited to 'all group violence MUST include the implication of sexual assault - I can't imagine it otherwise!'" And the fact that many other people are NOT so mentally limited in their view of FANTASY that it has to mirror real world violence.

>>62937657>literally can't distinguish between a game and reality >projects as if i'm the one with the problemwhat a genius postremember that i'm only talking about savage hordes in worldbuilding logistics, if you want barbarians that aren't full savage then call them something else like the lollipop stealing gang

>>62937384>And yet, if the game is described as dark or mature then they shouldn't be surprised by it.And just because a game is dark or mature doesn't mean that everything goes. Somebody who is warned about a movie with "graphic themes" shouldn't be surprised to see a chainsaw murder, but he would be 100% reasonable in being shocked to see a twelve-year-old child being gangraped to death.

>>62937708>the world isn't a nice placeGood thing this is a fantasy world made up by a nerd that the players only interact with through that nerd's filter. Are you seriously saying that because if any fantasy setting was real people in it would get raped that means rape MUST be mentioned to the players regardless of if you've asked them if they're cool with it or not?

Stereotypical Dwarven characters.If I read a backstory and can think of at least 3 other characters similar - in both D&D and fiction - I ask the player to either change it up a bit, or fudge with slight discrimination against that character - not the player.

>>62930731>Phones i normally take my player's phones and put them in the lid of my dice box in the middle of the table. You get a call, go ahead. But nobody's playing music or looking at memes at my table.I moved away recently, moved the game onto roll20 with the same players. They find a character with a magic glass eye, i said that his left eye flashes blue as the light passed over him. One of them decides to spend two minutes searching up megalovania on his phone to play down mic for a sold 30 seconds. Don't get me wrong, i'd find it funny in the moment, but after we've partially moved on, no.

>>62938007You haven't answered my question. Why can't you just not bring up rape? If people want to they will use their imaginations to fill in rape wherever, but you've yet to bring to me a reason why you must specifically bring up rape.

>>62938034This is exactly why I listed it next to furry or weebshit. I don't mind beast races or ninjas, but certain things are tentpoles for some people. Just like rapeanon sperging out, he just would never belong at my table, because I could never trust him to not sperg & he probably is a shitty person irl

>>62938068>There's going to be mentions of rape in the game, are you okay with that?>Oh, sorry, no, I'm looking for a less sexually graphic game.This is literally what the anon arguing against you has be arguing for you retard.

>>62938154>Because without those you don't have a game?Glad you understand. It's the GMs job to describe what happens in the setting, and what the players encounter and see. They are their eyes into the world.

>>62938158>At least a dozen other posts are arguing that rape should never be included.one person is arguing that rape should always be includedthe vast majority of everyone else is arguing that rape should only be included if everyone at the table is good with it

>>62938071The thing is, in my experience, it's more likely the GMs who want rape. Sure if they ever play a game they also want to rape, but they usually also have a power complex & like being GM more than a player

>>62938245No it doesn't. You are putting the cart before the horse. You as the DM decide what is going on and you describe that to the players, obviously, so when you describe a rape you have consciously decided "there is a rape going on here". My question is: Why must there be a rape there?

>>62938287Because there are evil monsters (and evil people, and evil gods, and actual unholy demons) in the setting. They do bad things. They curse, and steal, and assault, and rape, and torture, and kill, and everything else under the sun that you can think of.

They'll kick your little dog too.

Having actual genuine evil in your game helps to frame the context of opposing it. Your heroes can only be as heroic and great as your villains are abominable. It's what makes playing the game and perhaps winning in the end so satisfying.

>>62938373>Having actual genuine evil in your game helps to frame the context of opposing it. Your heroes can only be as heroic and great as your villains are abominable. It's what makes playing the game and perhaps winning in the end so satisfying.Very well put.

>>62938373Okay, I fundamentally disagree that rape must be bunched up with those other things but I'll give you that for the sake of argument. So then do you think it's unreasonable to expect you to ask your players if they're comfortable with rape before including it in a game?

>>62930747this. usually it's some edgy fucktard who can't write for shit putting it in to show "things just got real", and always try to make their story dark n sheit>t. was the kind of guy who did just that a few years ago

>>62938502>I consider myself creative but even I struggled with that. Dumbass.well i'd like to take credit for coming up with the whole hitler thing but in the interests of full disclosure i'll admit stole it from another campaign i saw somewhere else

>>62938569why do all these people who claim that they're brave strong men who don't need no trigger warnings nevertheless manage to be triggered by something that has happened in most full-scale conflicts to date

>>62938548Rape is a much more real trauma to people in the West. You're much more likely to have a loved one who was raped than a loved one who was violently murdered by a demon. It's simply respectful of the reality of the situation, people in the West are more sensitive to it and it will literally never hurt you to be conscious of what other people are sensitive to.

>>62938642It has nothing to do with separating the two. Triggers, as much as 4chan laughs at them, are real things, and an otherwise completely well adjusted person can relapse and get flashbacks of past trauma when something real or not triggers them.

>>62938679there's a reason people most people spend their time playing games like cops and robbers and cowboys and indians rather than games such as occupying soldier and nubile young woman

also games like cowboys and indians specifically focus on the bang bang bits and don't dive deep into the systematic ethnic cleansing and genocide element of the american expansion because that bit isn't fun for most people

>>62938733This is exactly the point I've been making, so why do you continue to argue that the best way for people to discover this isn't the game for them is to go through a few sessions until you have an npc raped?

>>62938808My point isn't even about playing a rapist in a game. My point was more about whether rape can and should happen in a setting with genuine evil in it. My answer is yes. Should it be censored to protect people from being uncomfortable? No, as long as you're playing with adults who understand this is a game about exploring the themes of good and evil.

>>62938759i truly regret that i wasted my tender years playing four-square or some shit when i could have been legally exploring a young girl's body without promptly being sent to jail to roll for anal circumference on a daily basis

you know that by the time you're old enough to eat candy for breakfast you don't actually feel like it anymore? it's like the opposite of that.

>>62938849For fuck sake. No one is saying you should censor your fucking games you mouthbreather. I even granted you that you absolutely gotta have rape because that's how you make your bad guys look supet duper bad, yet you've still not answered why it's better for someone to learn your game isn't the game for them in the middle of a fucking session instead of before they even join.

>>62938642It has nothing to do with triggers or "can't handle much elf games, it's too vivid" it comes straight down to the fact that I don't want rape in my fucking game. I want rape in my game as much as I want my players to describe their shits in character

>>62938998This thread has nothing to do with you then you god damn chimp. If you have a fucking roster of people ready to suck your cock at a moment's notice and are all very obviously on the same page as you then why are you arguing in a thread about what people don't let people do in their game?

>>62939157>i can't rebut what they wrote so I'll change the subject to grumdork vs candylandalso>i am such a shit writer the only way I can make my players feel heroic for defeating the villain is if that villain raped someone

>>62939174>don't allow wizards in your gamesokay>don't allow polish elves in your gamesokay>don't allow the dutch in your gamesokay>don't allow black people in your gamesokay>don't allow rape in your games282384734374 posts about how all serious games must include rape or else you're playing a candyland snowflake game

>>62939406That post is right, though. When was the last time you met someone who knew a victim of torture or cannibalism? Pretty much only people who spend time in third world shitholes. Meanwhile, I can almost guarantee you know someone who was raped themselves.

>>62935956How is rape "a whole other level of fucked up" when to compared to just regular stuff that happens in D&D?

Last week (in my AD&D game) on of my PCs got grabbed by a mind flayer. It had got tentecles on her, pierced her skull and was going to extract her brain next round. If it wasn't for a +2 dagger and a lucky crit it would have sucked her brain out like a raw egg.

Hell mind flayers are a signature monster, this isn't that an uncommon way to die and it's pretty much more fucked up than anything 'real'.

>>62939529>herpaderpa my anecdotal evidenceI have explained why this argument doesn't hold water. The crux is this: There are people who WILL be upset about rape in a game, no amount of your macho chest beating about how you are the paragon of mental health is going to change this. So why would you wait until you're midsession for people to find out they don't want to game with you instead of stopping them from even joining?

>>62939571Newsflash: Your mental health is your responsibility. If you need help go seek a professional therapist.

Telling gamers not to run adult games because they don't like scenes of graphic violence or sex or both is like trying to tell the film industry not to have scenes of graphic violence or sex. It's just not going to to happen.

>>62939686No, I'll just keep waiting for you to actually respond to what I said. Why would you wait until the middle of a session to find out someone didn't want to be in your game instead of weeding them out before they join?

>>62939740The crux of your argument is that westerners are all traumatized by their close experience with rape and that triggering them will retraumatize them. The world isn't as soft as that, you just run with sissies.

>>62939816"All" referencing being completely traumatized, not a statistical measurement of those affected. Sorry forgot you couldn't read and wanted to misinterpret it to try and make a case for yourself.

>>62939571This person is arguing that you don't NEED to have rape to have a dark game with adult themes. That the game doesn't become a kids game just because rape goes unmentioned. That you can hav perfectly "pure evil" monsters and demons without having to bother to mention they also rape

If this person is the one who posted the first message, then his message was quite clear "Every time i've dealt with rape in one form or another it devolved into creepy fetishes instead of a mature exploration of the concept. I am not willing to give anyone else the benefit of the doubt and simply veto any rape mention in character creation, backstory or interactiom"

You can argue against the former, not the latter.It is kinda like the people who say "Beast races are not allowed at my table because every player so far who has done so turned out to be a fetishist" which i think it's silly in principle, but won't argue against it if i am playing under said GM

>>62939618This person is arguing that rape is just another form of evil. He's treating it as the people within his game would. Something horrible and traumatizing that happens often when you have women and people willing to rape in one place. It is something that happens and shouldn't be shyed away from. He uses it as a device to signify his daemons are pure evil, effectively both agreeing and denying that rape is indeed a special kind of evil. More or less "I am gonna list all these bad things, if you happen to react more strongly to one of them, that's on you, not me". My words and interpretation, not his.

>>62939859>that happens often when you have women and people willing to rape in one placeI feel it should be added that it's certainly not something that only female characters should be worried about. Rape of male prisoners of war has been a thing throughout history. What better way to break a proud knight's spirit, after all?

>>62940005>But that's incorrectYou can believe whatever you want about the best way to run your games but when you take a fat shit on the English language and expect other people to eat it you don't even get that defense.

>no one said monopoly why are y--You're doing it because replying to what people actually say is too difficult so you resort to arguing with retarded strawmen instead.

>>62940005>if you want to just have fun playing a game go play monopoly, TTRPGs are for real men who aren't sissy enough to have things they don't want to talk about with a bunch of nerds playing pretend

>>62940076You've made far too many retarded posts to try and claim literacy at this point. Check the grammar, it's sound. "All westerners" is what you wanted to have been written. "all traumatized" is what was written.

Cry some more. I already told you I wouldn't trigger warning them because it would ruin the surprise and emotional reaction of dealing with an in game rape in the moment.

>>62940018If people in that setting have the same hang-ups about sex and homosexuality then it'd be very different, I'd say women getting raped by an occupying army is an almost certainty. It has little to do with humiliating the woman and all with the soldier relieving himself.Raping a male to bring him down would be far rarer. It has little to do with relieving yourself from your urges, instead, being a tool of physical and psychological torture.

They can hardly be compared

Imagine it like this, a soldier that is part of the force that has recently occupied your city eating your provisions for the winter because they are hungry and the same soldier walking into your cell and eating your slop right in front of you because he wants to make a point.

>>62940132Anon, if it's all just about roleplaying and fantasy then why does the person's reaction need to be surprised? Wouldn't it incentivize people to break character and react as themselves instead of as their character?

Also>admitting you're such a shit writer you need shock value to elicit an emotional response

>>62940132>Check the grammar, it's sound. "All westerners" is what you wanted to have been written. "all traumatized" is what was written.Your interpretation is not grammatically forbidden, but it's still not how anyone would ever interpret a clause like that. "We are all human" means that every one of us is human, not that some of us are 100% human. "The refugees were all filthy" means that every one of the survivors was filthy, not that some of the refugees were 100% filthy.

Write down the sentence without any context and ask literally fucking anyone you know how they'd parse it, your players, fucking anyone really.

>to try and claim literacy at this point. Just because you're capable of outright fabricating retarded posts to put into other people's mouths doesn't mean anything they actually said was retarded.

>>62940136I mean, there was a big point being made earlier about how rape shows off how evil the bad guys are. If that's your goal, then that kind of display of power and control is exactly what you'd expect.

Besides, views on homosexuality tend not to affect male rape all that much, since people are really good at double-think. Prisons are hardly gay-friendly environments, and yet they're the origin of the term "rape culture". African nations are notoriously anti-homosexuality, but male rape as a weapon of war is a big problem that few people are willing to confront. The U.S. military had "don't ask, don't tell", but systematically molested and sexually humiliated prisoners in Guantanamo. And these are just modern examples.

Basically what I'm saying is, if your villain really is Evil, then there's no reason why he wouldn't have his ogre lieutenant rape your paladin until the blood runs down his knees.

>>62940195It may cause them to break, but regardless of whether or not they break character they'll react as people. I am not trying to entertain gnomish sorcerers.In the same way that movies can have spoilers slammed in front of them while playing on TV, "the following contains scenes of a bitch getting raped in her car, shit." It mentally prepares you for that to happen, and then what's the point of it even being in it.

>>62940333You are supposed to provide the reason for rape to be in there. Do you know what it's called when someone includes rape or some other graphic, disturbing subject for pure shock value? Hack writing.

And so roleplaying isn't why you're playing the game, so you don't get to use the defense of "it's just roleplaying get over it" when people get upset about something. You're purposely trying to upset people, not characters.

>>62940333>In the same way that movies can have spoilers slammed in front of them while playing on TVMovies have had labels on them for ages. "This movie is rated R for strong language, gore, crimes against humanity, and so on." I don't think I've heard anyone claim that the movie was then subsequently ruined for them.

>>62940333>hey man, I like to include a lot of dark subjects in my game, are you cool with graphic descriptions of violence or subjects like rape? =/= when you guys get to dark death evil man's lair you'll find out he kidnapped and raped that npc wench you're going to get sweet on in session 3

>>62940367I understand that you feel rape is beneath your narrative, but in a war simulation to cut it out is moronic. I was supposed to... what? Seriously, you're trying to spin this into an attack on my writing skills because I was styling on you. I get it, but just assuming rape was dropped in from the sky without context or a motivation is pretty thin. No one has ever been upset by it, because again I don't associate with the raped or with pansies.

>>62940415I disagree, "Hey guys rape is in this, you cool with that?" is the same thing they'll know it's coming. I suppose to then rape a dude would probably still have the shock value, but it's never come up.

>>62938373There's a fine line between having your players genuinely want to complete the campaign and driving them away. If the world is too calm it becomes boring, if it's too chaotic it becomes unbearable.

Pretty sure rape is a little bit too far and will alienate most players from your world, as well as yourself for describing rape in your campaign.

Unless everyone playing is cool with darker themes, don't bring up stuff that will fuck with people personally. The campaign will go from being something fun into something uncomfortable real fast.

>>62940815>Pretty sure rape is a little bit too far and will alienate most players from your worldWell, that's a bit of an assumption on your part. In my experience, all the players I've encountered were fine with it.

the real question is why is it a big deal if a group asks for no rapejust find another fucking group if it matters that much to you, they're clearly filtering people like you so both of you can find the people you want to play with easier