The good part of this collapse is that it should solidify the firing of Francona. He is outcoached by virtually manager he goes against. It is pathetic how Maddon owns him. Tito "Who's your daddy?" Posted by Veritas007

How many more "Fire Tito" threads will there be over the next 6 games?

In Response to Re: Say Goodbye S&S : Bleacher report should get the same respect as smelly beni. The RS could do much worse than Francona. However, he may have exceeded his run in beentown.Posted by FredMertz

Francona may have been good in 04 and 07 but times have changed and he has not so now things are not going well. The Sox need a manager who goes for the gut.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Law. If the Sox miss the playoffs, or are even swept out in the 1st round, Terry and Theo should both be fired.Posted by titletownfan

I'm amazed about the number of post that are calling for Francona's and Epstein's head. What's more confusing is that at the same time the very same people are going on about how frustrated they are over the injuries the RS have had to deal with this season. So what is it poor team construction, .. poor managing or poor fortune with regard to injuries? Frankly, it's a bit of all three but there are just enough critical injuries that are going to let Epstein and Francona off the hook. In fact, if I were to think in terms of proportional blame, .. I would say Epstein deserves the lion's share. All teams get injuries. You can quibble about Francona's strategy but he really didn't have the players this year when he needed them.

A GMs job is to get the talent and have a plan B in the ready should things not go to form due to injury, unexpected poor production or anything else. Is Epstein to blame is not the question because as the GM he is responsible. That being said, he’s not getting canned anytime soon because of the teams accomplishments in 2004 & 2007, .. nor do I necessarily think he should. But, this year’s record like last year’s will be blamed on injuries which isn’t exactly the whole story. Although I thought the RS would hold on to make the playoffs, and might yet, whether they do or not should not change the way Epstein is evaluated for this season. The team he constructed had serious holes to start with that were just exposed over the course of a 162 game season.This was compounded by the fact that he made little effort to get reinforcements before the trade dead line.I’m aware that there wasn’t much available but you wouldn’t have had to do much to improve this bunch.He is a good GM but not a great one. I think a myth was constructed around him because of 2004. A myth that upon closer examination is undeserved, especially when you consider that the 2004 team’s foundation was put in place by his predecessor. The 2007 team was much more of his making and between the two WS wins he’s attained a status that will prevent his dismissal anytime soon. Say anything else you want about him, … he was the GM that was at the helm when the curse was broken and that is going to get him a lot of slack.

Expect him and Francona back next season. Hope that he can sure up the BP, that Lackey and Crawford start earning their keep and that they don’t let the wrong FA walk. Nevertheless, I’m sure that if the RS don’t make it to the playoffs Theo has in his office a gorilla suit encased in glass that reads “Break Glass in Case of Third Place”.

So this is Francona's fault that the SP has not had a QUALITY start in 16 games?Injuries and the inability of the replacements to come through is not something a manager has control over.Theo tried to get other pitchers but a combination of the other team wanting too much and other teams willing to give too much made the tried moves not happen.

Because neither the RS or NYY were able to make any significant move at the trade deadline IMHO I believe other teams are reluctant to trade with them unless they get the upper hand either in players or $$$$$.

The Lion's share of the blame goes to how the team is playing now; they are all to blame.

April - That I blame Francona - his team clearly wasn't ready

Injuries too have played it's role - Youk and Buck

There is SOME blame to Francona for Sept - no sense of urgency as the ship goes down....Last Night, he should have kept Beckett in. If you are going to get beat, get beat w/ your best pitcher on the mound. I mean, if that were the 8th you could go to Paps but I don't know how Aceves (as good as he's been) is ever a better option than Beckett? Conversley, he'll gladly allow the other teams best players to beat him (see Evan Longoria).......

For Theo - that was a poor way to allocate 170 million. Too much to a Left Fielder and not enough for pitching........

In Response to Re: Say Goodbye S&S : If Maddon owns Francona...and Francona was only good in 2004 and 2007...what years were Maddon good in? Don't use payroll as your excuse because this thread is littered with Anti-Theo stuff...so payroll doesn't matter...according to this thread Francona is managing under an inferior GM yet has two rings, Maddon with a better GM according to this thread, has 0 rings. So explain that to me please...thanksPosted by thepeskypole6

Also, +1 at A-Mitch's last post. I am sorely disappointed in Lester. He clearly left his big-boy pants at home this year.

Beckett is the staff Ace whereas Lester is getting a little too "Thinking Man"/Mike Mussina-y for my taste. I think he needs to to step on the mound, point at Jeter's head, and bean his sorry azz. That or line up some shots of Jack D on the rubber, light 'em, toss 'em down, and get some gd-fire in his belly.

Quit talking about Maddon owning Tito. Before the month of September, Tampa have 6-5 record against Boston before injuries started to pile up for Boston. So seriously, meaning Maddon was lucky to play Boston for the month of September.

Anyway, it is just Boston have too many injuries where Tito have to keep juggling the line up and starting pitcher rotation every single game. Look at Yankees, no injuries to their starting rotation where they can keep it stable for the whole season eventhough their bottom rotation isnt as good as Boston's actual bottom rotation. Same goes to Tampa. Remember pitching and defense carry the team in all season along and post season. That was why Yankees and Tampa were able to stay strong toward to the month of September.

Plus Tampa have more talents in their farm system where they can use them to back people up while Boston do not have much talents in their farm system where they can not use them to back up Youkilis, Dice K, Bedard, JD Drew, etc.

But the season is far over. Boston still have a shot.

Good thing they are playing on the road where they have been playing well before they headed home for 10 games homestand.

If the Sox were to win their final 6 gms (doubtful), they would limp into the PO's and be eliminated in the 1st round. The team has no leadership, zombies going through the motions blaming bad luck for their collapse and using tired phrases such as "I've never seen anything like this". Duh, neither have your fans. Time to drain-the-swap, bid adios to Theo, Francona, Drew, Ortiz, Wakefield, Varitek, McDonald and everyone in the BP except Papelbon, Bard and Aceves. The purge is long overdue for this fatally flawed team asssembled by an overrated GM! 2004 and 2007 are ancient history.

In Response to Re: Say Goodbye S&S : So I guess the time that Hughes, Colon and Garcia spent on the DL doesn't count? Headed into Sept, the Yanks had players miss 1300 combined games, which was the most in the majors. Stop using injuries as an excuse, it's makes you sound like a whiny little girl.Posted by ..The~Babe....

I would say this, when the Sox were in first place you never heard people talking about injuries. J-Bay the spinning spokesman started doing the same last night in the gamethread. The Yankees have had plenty of injuries too, you won't hear them acknowledge that though. It is what it is, the Yankees earned the division and the Sox although favored by many to win it all this year are fighting to make it into the playoffs.

Match up the talent on the Rays vs the Sox. If Maddon had the talent S&Shas they would be ahead by 15 games. Except for Longoria and a couple of starters, the Rays don't have anyone who would start on the Sox.

We are something like 33-46 vs the Rays since 2008....In 2007 we were like 16-2......in 2004 we were like 16-3...........this year 6-12.......Since 2008, we have played .600 yet against the Rays we play .400 ball? That's a 50% swing. I'd say the Rays OWN the Sox. And no one has done a lick about it. We need some hired gun to come to town who will proclaim on national TV that he's headed to Boston to take care of the Rays for us.........

Match up the talent on the Rays vs the Sox. If Maddon had the talent S&Shas they would be ahead by 15 games. Except for Longoria and a couple of starters, the Rays don't have anyone who would start on the Sox. S&S commands no respect from his players.Posted by Veritas007

Don't forget Desmond Jennings. If we had him Ol Carl would be riding pine

In Response to Re: Say Goodbye S&S : I would say this, when the Sox were in first place you never heard people talking about injuries. J-Bay the spinning spokesman started doing the same last night in the gamethread. The Yankees have had plenty of injuries too, you won't hear them acknowledge that though. It is what it is, the Yankees earned the division and the Sox although favored by many to win it all this year are fighting to make it into the playoffs.Posted by MikeintheBronx

The good part of this collapse is that it should solidify the firing of Francona. He is outcoached by virtually manager he goes against. It is pathetic how Maddon owns him. Tito "Who's your daddy?" Posted by Veritas007

The twin brother of Teakus is back. Where were you during the months of May thru August?