Sorry if this has been answered before but I see this it mentioned on the forums all the time whether Sup or Sac is better. My question is specifically for fights like windlord in HoF where I find myself constantly at full embers during p1. I basically keep up RoF and then just spam fire and brimstone and have 2 questions relating to this.

1) Because Sac does not affect fire and brimstone is it better to use Sup in this instance? If not, can you please explain to me the logic why Sac is better assuming fire and brimstone is better than havoc (leads me to question 2)
2) Once the adds get down to below 20% is it better to continue my fire and brimstone spam with Immo>conflag>incin while keeping up RoF? Or should havoc the windlord and shadowburn x3 some add then go back to my fire and brimstone spam.

Sorry if this has been answered before but I see this it mentioned on the forums all the time whether Sup or Sac is better. My question is specifically for fights like windlord in HoF where I find myself constantly at full embers during p1. I basically keep up RoF and then just spam fire and brimstone and have 2 questions relating to this.

1) Because Sac does not affect fire and brimstone is it better to use Sup in this instance? If not, can you please explain to me the logic why Sac is better assuming fire and brimstone is better than havoc (leads me to question 2)
2) Once the adds get down to below 20% is it better to continue my fire and brimstone spam with Immo>conflag>incin while keeping up RoF? Or should havoc the windlord and shadowburn x3 some add then go back to my fire and brimstone spam.

Thanks in advance

On normal mode I could some debate being there, but on heroic with the temp damage taken debuff on the boss after a group dies there's really no question that sac's the best.

On normal I'd say sup could be better as once you get to last phase there's no real difference, but before then you're dealing with adds. With the number of shadow burns you can potentially cleave off the adds onto the boss, it's really hard to say. In my opinion it's probably so close it doesn't matter.

As for when the adds are down below execute range, I would definitely burn 3 embers on adds and havocing them to the boss, but keep one ember to keep Immo up on everything + RoF. You can easily build up 3 again for the next havoc and just repeat that. Be sure when you're swimming in embers at the beginning to FnB-CoE.

I'm currently playing Destro main spec, previously Demo, I've never been a fan of affliction. My problem is that although I'm doing quite well with Destro I'm concerned that I haven't being using the optimal opener / rotation for it. Currently I open with immolate > 2x conflag > incinerate until 2 embers > Dark Soul > pot > doomguard > 2x Chaos bolt > rinse repeat. I'm currently saving chaos bolts for my engi gloves and then again for my dark soul + engi gloves. In between this I'm conflaging on cooldown and only incinerating with backdraft. If conflag is on CD and backdraft isn't up I use RoF and refresh immolate.

I'm pretty much following the above to the letter, any input from a more experienced Destro lock about this would be greatly appreciated. Also anyone who has any general tips and tricks for Destro please post them!

I run with a rogue, so don't have to CoE. I've been finding pretty good results going:
Pre-pot+DS at 3 sec>CB>Immo>2x conflag>Incinx6>CB.

I'll get off 2 CB's before most buffs end, and then just fall into normal rotation from there.

Edit: That was what I was doing until last night, but then changed it up to Prepot+DS at 3 sec > CB > 2x conflag > Immo > Incin x6 > CB in an attempt to fish for more procs before CB hits. I'm not really sure if it made any difference at all, but it seemed to. Probably didn't.

This fight can appear a bit difficult for Destro (there was no Destro parse on WoL :/), as its a succession of single target and separated multitarget phases, but the spec is actually quite competitive with a few tricks (the kill was a rather bad pull for me, I had a 10% wipe at 145k).
- RoF is great with buffs, even in single target
- RoF generates embers on things it hits, not on things it damages
- The range of FnB with MF is huge
- Small and big adds grant embers (it seems to be a 50% chance on this Tier...)

Obviously if your raid has a better placement with adds you will have a much simpler time AoE-ing...

Last edited by Zumzumzum; 2012-12-08 at 03:36 PM.
Reason: trick takes an 's' in plural

All the time I watch your videos, I want to play with destro... But unfortunately, I perform better with affliction/demonology... I tried several times play with destro, but I always perform better with affliction spec. Maybe I haven´t given a real chance for destro spec. =(

All the time I watch your videos, I want to play with destro... But unfortunately, I perform better with affliction/demonology... I tried several times play with destro, but I always perform better with affliction spec. Maybe I haven´t given a real chance for destro spec. =(

You do have to realize though, his group uses 3 crit banners chained. That buff with Destro is pretty nice. Overall though great video Zum. Very nice tricks too.

All the time I watch your videos, I want to play with destro... But unfortunately, I perform better with affliction/demonology... I tried several times play with destro, but I always perform better with affliction spec. Maybe I haven´t given a real chance for destro spec. =(

Not to try taking anything away from Zum (he's obviously one of the best destro locks out there) and how he's managing to make Destro work in a raid environment, but I really want to see someone perform as well in 10-man. It's kind of how 25-man can get away with using arcane mages right now. They can do well in certain roles but it requires other people to bring the rest that is required to actually kill the boss.

I mean even demo is not viable on most fights in 10-man. This tier there has been maybe 1-2 fights where it's been better. While 25-man can have demo locks in almost half of the fights even in guilds who are top 5 in the world.

Not to try taking anything away from Zum (he's obviously one of the best destro locks out there) and how he's managing to make Destro work in a raid environment, but I really want to see someone perform as well in 10-man. It's kind of how 25-man can get away with using arcane mages right now. They can do well in certain roles but it requires other people to bring the rest that is required to actually kill the boss.

I mean even demo is not viable on most fights in 10-man. This tier there has been maybe 1-2 fights where it's been better. While 25-man can have demo locks in almost half of the fights even in guilds who are top 5 in the world.

I've gotten the equivalent of top 5 affliction ranks as destro on every fight but blade lord (because our healers can't keep me alive in the last phase apparently )

Thanks for your video Zumzum, but seeing you playing keeps reminding me how bad job they have done on this spec. You have to be "creative" to the extend of being cheesy to play this spec and being a bit competitive. RoF on immune objects, snipping near dead mobs etc are not signs of a healthy spec. I like destro a lot. But I am so tiered to trying to explain why I do not play affliction which is better by a large margin. You are special case obviously but really... are you happy with the spec?

Yes I am, elsewise I wouldn't play it exclusively since release :P
It is not perfect, it could obviously use some changes, but I'm really enjoying playing it for two months (in the end maybe even more than Cataclysm's Destro, sorry for the beta Xelnath if you pass by ).