Werd, that is about how it is really. Makes me want to be able to fly like Superman lol.

Qtec

05-21-2004, 10:20 AM

Consider this; the gas that you buy today comes from crude oil that might have been bought more than a year ago when prices were lower.

The big winners are the oil companies [ they just pass the extra cost onto the consumer] and the OPEC members.

Q [ thinks the low $ has something to do with it as well]

Q

mred477

05-21-2004, 10:07 PM

Heard something interesting on the radio yesterday. They said to consider that a gallon of coffee at starbucks costs more than a gallon of gas. Gas is really, really cheap compared to other goods, which is interesting because it is so valuable.

Just a thought, but if the price of oil goes up now, shouldn't the oil companies have to charge more for the oil they make into gas now from their original stocks just to cover the price of the new oil they buy? As for the oil companies being winners, it's all about the market. Nobody would ask someone who owns a mom and pop shop to shave their profit margin to benefit their customers if the customers still buy it. If Americans would stop buying gas, the price would go down. Seeing as that won't happen, and every summer people travel more, it's pretty natural that prices would go up.

So then the oil companies must be colluding to keep prices artificially high, right? Well, an interesting note is if you look at the CPI indices, the price of gas is close to what it was in 1975-79, right before the gas shortage in the 80s. So really we've got the same prices we've always had and have been spoiled the last few years. Also, I haven't looked, but I'm sure that our wonderful legislators have taxed us more than back then too. Click on the link and try it...it's kinda fun.

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/bu2/inflateCPI.html

Will

highsea

05-22-2004, 01:09 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote mred477:</font><hr> Well, an interesting note is if you look at the CPI indices, the price of gas is close to what it was in 1975-79, right before the gas shortage in the 80s. So really we've got the same prices we've always had and have been spoiled the last few years. <hr /></blockquote>
I'm confused...the Arab Oil Embargo was in 1973-1974. What gas shortage in the 80's are you referring to? The rationing, lines at the pumps, buying gas on odd-numbered days, banning of gas sales on Sunday, etc. was in 1973-74. Maybe you are thinking of Jimmy Carter's 21% inflation years, when you couldn't afford to buy gas. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Coincidentally, this (1974) is when Congress finally approved the Trans-Alaska Pipeline Project, which was completed in 1977, and supplied America with some 2,000,000 barrels of oil/day. (See any parallels to today's fight over ANWR?)

The price of oil was $3.00/bbl. before the embargo. Adjusted for inflation, that would be $12.43 today. As a result of the embargo (which was a result of the 1973 Arab-Israeli war), the price jumped overnight to $5.11. Adjust that with your calculator, and you get $21.18/bbl.

Last time I checked, a barrel of oil was pretty close to double that.

Now try this. OPEC says they want oil to be at 28.00/bbl today. That works out to 6.74/bbl in 1973 dollars. So OPEC wants oil to be about twice as expensive today (adjusted) as it was in 1973, before the embargo. Plug it in at $41.00/bbl, (the current price)and you get $9.88/bbl, about 3.3 times the adjusted price as 1973.

Now, Mred, I am not criticizing you. You may not remember 1973, I don't know, that might be before your time. Hell, I was only 13 tears old, but I was delivering newspapers on my SL70 in Sitka, Alaska, and I was buying gas with my paper route money. If I was a kid today, I wouldn't be able to afford to run my little motorcycle to deliver those newspapers.

I just wish Congress would get off their asses and open up ANWR.

-CM

bluewolf

05-22-2004, 05:44 AM

I do not agree with Bush on most things, but not opening the reserves I do agree on, at least for now.

Now that it appears that false intelligence about WMD in Iraq was leaked to the US etc, perhaps that is what Iran wanted, us to go in and topple IRAQ. Iran seems the closest to developing WMD, if they do not already have them.

Perhaps we went after the wrong enemy. Another scenario: al quaeda uses the recent atrocities and bad press we are getting to get the arab countries behind them. Some predict nuclear capability of some of those countries by 2007.

We may need those reserves later. I am for looking at the long term picture vs the short one, although I do think that the oil companies are capitalizing on the situation to gouge the public.

It would seem more prudent for the govt to cap their prices.

Laura---&gt; my opinion only

highsea

05-22-2004, 06:25 AM

I agree that a federal cap would be appropriate, until the current confusion is settled. I also agree that now is not the time to tap the strategic reserve. Rather, we should be adding to it. We face an uncertain future.

Ultimately we need to go back to the 1950's in terms of energy independence. We should exploit our own energy resources first, and implement alternatives to fossil fuels. i.e. Nuclear, Solar, Hydro, and Wind, as appropriate geographically and economically. There is no real reason we cannot be self sufficient in terms of energy. Make it the plan, in 20 years we would be there.

-CM

Mr Ingrate

05-22-2004, 10:39 AM

Filled up yesterday with 89 octane at $1.049 per litre. The US gallon is approximately 4 litres so that puts gas at $4.196 CDN per gallon. Given the current exchange rate of .73 we are paying $3.06 US per gallon in Canada.

CarolNYC

05-24-2004, 03:20 AM

Naz,
Over here, 2.45-unbelievable-2.65 if you dont pump your own-headed to Jersey-hey, spoke with Jean in Vegas-may stop by-have to fiddle around with my Thurdsday league-maybe change to Mondays-we'll see!
Take care!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I hope to see you there this week! /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Going to NJ to fill up huh, is it worth the $4 toll? /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

UWPoolGod

05-24-2004, 09:30 AM

And just when it looked like Portland gas prices couldn't get any higher...
http://www.katu.com/consumernews/story.asp?ID=67577

FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK

Wally_in_Cincy

05-24-2004, 09:47 AM

stuff like that is the really scary part. if a refinery went down tomorrow we would be paying 3.00/gal.

and the EPA makes it near impossible to build a refinery.

what the hell are we going to do if we ever get into a major war? old refineries, very little steel capacity.

at least we still build cars and trucks here.

CarolNYC

05-25-2004, 01:18 PM

Naz,
My league is Tuesdays-yeah!
So is Thursday when your there?
As for heading to Jersey,I'll just make it a point to visit my Mom and sister and with ez pass, I think its cheaper /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nAz

05-25-2004, 01:52 PM

yes Carol only Thursday nights, for the past 5 months or so it has been the only time i get to play any pool. Maybe i should join a league /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cya Thursday 6:30 pm, BTW I am suprised to see you posting at this time of the day, you usually post @ 5 am /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

CarolNYC

05-25-2004, 02:19 PM

Thursday 6:30 pm-done deal! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Theres only one exception-before Vegas,the top of my hair was stripped to blonde and then hit with this outrageous "purple haze"-very deep purple-NOW-apparently ,it oxidized in the sun (duh,Vegas)so its blue,blonde and purple-so, I may be walking into the poolroom, looking like a "clown,here to amuse you!" ha ha ha
See ya Thursday!
Carol /ccboard/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

nAz

05-25-2004, 03:00 PM

hehehe A true New Yorker, im sure no one will notice. /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

SpiderMan

05-25-2004, 04:06 PM

We had shortages and odd/even purchase in Dallas in 1979.

SpiderMan

Ross

05-25-2004, 04:55 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Wally_in_Cincy:</font><hr> ...
what the hell are we going to do if we ever get into a major war? old refineries, very little steel capacity.

.... <hr /></blockquote>

Nuke'em. /ccboard/images/graemlins/cool.gif

stickman

05-25-2004, 10:07 PM

Be for long we will all be joining Bush and Kerry riding bicycles, except we won't be riding for exercise. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sid_Vicious

05-25-2004, 10:08 PM

I sold a Volkswagen wagon '60 vintage that I'd bought used myself, and I said to my friend, "Housecat,(that was his nickname) you KNOW that it is light blue and has that yellow, salvage yard passenger door don't you?" He said, "Hell yea, I want people to see that car coming and say "Here come's Housecat!"" sid~~~coulda maybe seen you coming in Vegas myself, "Here comes Carol guys!" ;-))

highsea

05-26-2004, 12:31 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote SpiderMan:</font><hr> We had shortages and odd/even purchase in Dallas in 1979.

SpiderMan <hr /></blockquote>

Really? We never had a problem in Washington. That was my first year in college, and I drove back and forth across the state every week. Gas was relatively cheap. Today we're one of the highest states in the nation.

-CM

CarolNYC

05-26-2004, 03:25 AM

LMAO Sid,
Im definitely that 60"s VW!
Whats even worse ,Sid, is, I have a dark tan, so you know that blonde is really,really shouting-ugh! Unbelievable!
Carol~definitely going to salon today-I am a clown! /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

CarolNYC

05-26-2004, 03:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
im sure no one will notice <hr /></blockquote>
Thanks for the encouraging words,Naz, but you would notice,ha ha ha!I am a "village people" ha ha
Carol~will take a picture before its fixed /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Chris Cass

05-26-2004, 08:28 AM

Hi Jim,

It's all a government ploy to launch the electric cars. Besides, we have oil already why do we need anyone elses?

Regards,

C.C.

UWPoolGod

05-26-2004, 09:50 AM

Here's my next saving technique..

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloads/cj_35231.jpg

http://www.consumptionjunction.com/downloads/cj_35218.jpg

Rich R.

05-26-2004, 10:14 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> Hi Jim,

It's all a government ploy to launch the electric cars. Besides, we have oil already why do we need anyone elses?

Regards,

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>
Chris, I heard a news story, a couple days ago, that indicated that we have about the same amount of gas now, that we have had in the past. The main problems are that people are driving more, with much larger vehicles, like SUV's.
I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but, IMHO, most people do not need these large SUV's and they are just wasting gas.

BTW, the hybrid cars, having a combination of gas and electric power, seem to be a very attractive option, and you don't have to plug them in at night. /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif
One company is even making an SUV model, to satisfy that market.

nAz

05-26-2004, 10:34 AM

CC read this excerpt from national Geographic Mag.
It's a little long but sobering. /ccboard/images/graemlins/frown.gif

<font color="blue">It's inevitable. But just how soon will the vital fuel become so scarce and expensive that we're forced to make hard choices about how we live?

Get a taste of what awaits you in print from this compelling excerpt.

Below more than a mile of ocean and three more of mud and rock, the prize is waiting. At the surface a massive drilling vessel called the Discoverer Enterprise strains to reach it. It's the spring of 2003, and for more than two months now the Enterprise has been holding steady over a spot 120 miles (200 kilometers) southeast of New Orleans in the Gulf of Mexico. The ship is driving a well toward an estimated one billion barrels of oil below the seafloor—the biggest oil field discovered in United States territory in three decades.

The 835-foot (255-meter) Enterprise shudders every few minutes as its thrusters put out a burst of power to fight the strong current. The PA system crackles, warning of small amounts of gas bubbling from the deep Earth. And in the shadow of the 23-story-tall derrick, engineers and managers gather in worried knots. "We've got an unstable hole," laments Bill Kirton, who's overseeing the project for the oil giant BP.

The drill, suspended from the Enterprise's derrick through a swimming-pool-size gap in the hull, has penetrated 17,000 feet (5,000 meters) below the seafloor. Instead of boring straight down, it has swerved more than a mile sideways, around a massive plume of rock salt. But now, with 2,000 feet (600 meters) to go, progress is stalled. Water has begun seeping into the well from the surrounding rock, and the engineers are determined to stem its spread before drilling farther. Otherwise, the trickle of water could turn into an uncontrolled surge of crude. "There's a lot of oil down there wanting to come out," says Cecil Cheshier, a drilling supervisor, after struggling all night with the unruly hole. "You can cut corners and take chances—but that could cost you a lawsuit or cause a spill into the Gulf of Mexico, and then deepwater drilling gets shut down."

The troubled well is just one of 25 that BP plans to drill in the giant field, called Thunder Horse, which sprawls over 54 square miles (140 square kilometers) of seafloor. The entire project, including a floating platform half again as wide as a football field that will collect the oil from individual wells and pipe it to shore starting next year, will cost four billion dollars. But if the wells live up to expectations, each will eventually gush tens of thousands of barrels a day. "That's like a well in Saudi Arabia," says Cheshier. "We hardly get those in the U.S. anymore."

You wouldn't know it from the hulking SUVs and traffic-clogged freeways of the United States, but we're in the twilight of plentiful oil. There's no global shortage yet; far from it. The world can still produce so much crude that the current price of about $30 for a 42-gallon barrel would plummet if the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) did not limit production. This abundance of oil means, for now, that oil is cheap. In the United States, where gasoline taxes average 43 cents a gallon (instead of dollars, as in Europe and Japan), a gallon of gasoline can be cheaper than a bottle of water—making it too cheap for most people to bother conserving. While oil demand is up everywhere, the U.S. remains the king of consumers, slurping up a quarter of the world's oil—about three gallons a person every day—even though it has just 5 percent of the population.

Yet as the Enterprise drillers know, slaking the world's oil thirst is harder than it used to be. The old sources can't be counted on anymore. On land the lower 48 states of the U.S. are tapped out, producing less than half the oil they did at their peak in 1970. Production from the North Slope of Alaska and the North Sea of Europe, burgeoning oil regions 20 years ago, is in decline. Unrest in Venezuela and Nigeria threatens the flow of oil. The Middle East remains the mother lode of crude, but war and instability underscore the perils of depending on that region.

And so oil companies are searching for new supplies and braving high costs, both human and economic. Making gambles like Thunder Horse and venturing into West Africa and Russia, they are still finding oil in quantities to gladden a Hummer owner's heart. But in the end the quest for more cheap oil will prove a losing game: Not just because oil consumption imposes severe costs on the environment, health, and taxpayers, but also because the world's oil addiction is hastening a day of reckoning.

Humanity's way of life is on a collision course with geology—with the stark fact that the Earth holds a finite supply of oil. The flood of crude from fields around the world will ultimately top out, then dwindle. It could be 5 years from now or 30: No one knows for sure, and geologists and economists are embroiled in debate about just when the "oil peak" will be upon us. But few doubt that it is coming. "In our lifetime," says economist Robert K. Kaufmann of Boston University, who is 46, "we will have to deal with a peak in the supply of cheap oil."

</font color>

SPetty

05-26-2004, 10:41 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr>~will take a picture before its fixed /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif <hr /></blockquote>Hi Carol,

Would you please send me a copy of that pic? I'd love to see it.

CarolNYC

05-26-2004, 02:29 PM

Hi Spetty,
Definitely missed you in Vegas-I'll have my daughter take the picture-you got it!
You stay very well!
Carol:)

Think it is almost the same thing here, Tom. I am seeing anything from 2.10 to 2.23 for regular with premium quite a bit higher, depending on which town in DC suburbs you are in. one problem also is that places with the relatively cheaper gas (like 2-5 cents cheaper) are, according to mechanics, not good gas for one's engine. Ray has pretty much parked his suv unless he has to load something, and driving a better gas mileage car. My subaru gets ok mileage on the highway but not very good in town so am not driving it much either.

People in dc are used to driving fast, which imo decreases the mileage per gallon. I did an experiment with my subaru driving back here from Roanoke, va to dc. Slowing down to 55 -60, my mileage went from 27 to 33. But most people here still keep driving fast, oblivious to this.

I heard that the saudis are releasing more oil but it won't get here until mid july, so no telling how high it will get before then.

People are making a run here for the better mileage cars. Carmax only had two that had significantly good mileage and we got one of them for Ray and I got the small motorcycle, which gets 50 a gallon. Sounds alarmist but do not know if anyone can really predict how bad this will get. Some I am hearing say it will get better while others say it will get worse. So we opted to be prepared with better mileage vehicles before they are scarce if the worst case scenario happens./ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif