Posted
by
samzenpuson Monday June 14, 2010 @11:15AM
from the oh-what-a-night dept.

aapold writes "The Minnesota Dept of Human Rights has ruled that Ladies Night bar promotions are illegal in Minnesota, as it violates gender discrimination laws. This stems from a 1994 incident where a bar patron was angered at having to pay a cover charge during such an event and filed a lawsuit."

Where I'm living it seems like there are more girls in "Boy" scouts then there are boys now. It started off with one or two families claiming it was unfair that their daughters couldn't participate and it wasn't right to have a boys only club. There wasn't enough interest from girls to have sparks, brownies or girl scouts so it was decided to allow the few girls that wanted to join in with the boys to participate. Then we had the problem that there are no female leaders and none of the mothers would chaperon for camping trips. Of course some of the parents aren't comfortable with letting their daughters go out into the woods with a couple of men and a group of boys (understandable), but we can't exclude the girls; so no camping trips for anyone. So the parents of the boys are pulling their sons out of scouts because they claim they "don't get to do anything" and the parents see it as a waste of time and money. Two of the four leaders are talking about quitting because of all the flax they're taking. We might as well just disband.

It really just seems like there can't be something for just boys anymore. I'd like to say I wish we could have seen the issues before hand and just not let girls in, but we would have been forced to eventually anyway and it does seem unfair to the girls that there isn't something to be a part of.

I don't think artificial gender lines for clubs are a good thing. The various scouting and campfire/outdoors groups should just re-brand themselves as various types of character-building and skill-building clubs; BSA could tend to target more activities and skills boys would be interested in, while Girl Scouts could target the activities and skills girls would be interested in. Neither would discriminate, so [just stereotyping here:] tomboys who would be happier with boy-scouting could go that direction,

There are lots of good reasons to have gender specific clubs at all ages:1) At younger ages boys and girls often have different developmental needs2) These clubs expose the genders to positive role models they can directly relate to. This is becoming especiallly important in the age of single parents, you need to have kids that grow up under positive role models of both genders.3) Most kids learn how to interact with the opposite gender quite normally all day in the real world4) These clubs are ultimately P

You seem to have missed his point completely. He was just saying, hey, lets still have the "boys" club and the "girls" club, but just make it so that the "boys" club isn't boys only, and the "girls" club isn't girls only. The "boys" club's job would be to appeal to boys, but if a girl wanted to join, let her.

Sure private clubs should be able to set their own rules but that's seperate to the actual effect seperating the genders has on kids.

I went right through scouts in the mixed organization in my country there were also a few other scouting organizations including the girl guides and boy scouts.Overwhelmingly I found the girls who had gone through the purely female system to be whimps. Absolute whimps, wet hens, theoretically capable but, with very few exceptions,inclined to go to pieces at a moment notice un

I think its unfair to force a club not to have a ladies night, and I say this as a guy who still has to pay cover.

Half the bars are racist towards one group or another, and they'll make any excuse to keep them out, the most popular of which is "Shoes". If I had a nickel for everytime someone was not let into a club because of their shoes, I could retire. Clubs are discriminatory, and if they don't let you in, they don't let you in. Its as simple as that. If the owners don't want me inside, than that means t

If the girls are upset there isn't something to be a part of, perhaps they should go rally more girls to form a troop

Yeah, and they can call it the "Girl Scouts".

In any case, this is dumb. Hey genius, the point of Ladies' Night is to attract more ladies, which if you're a straight guy who's going to bars should obviously be viewed as a "good thing". The reason they still charge you a cover is because they don't need to lure you in with no cover charge -- that's what the ladies are for!

It really just seems like there can't be something for just boys anymore.

There is and will always be one thing (besides drawing in the snow) that is only for men. See the Equal Right Amendment [wikipedia.org] wiki for more other wise I'd be more of a troll then I already am.

They could have the boys and girls sleep in different tents. Alternatively, it could be optional, with some CYA disclaimer form that has to be signed by the parents of the children who go.Furthermore, the implication that boys and men can't be trusted not to rape girls makes me a sad panda.

Furthermore, the implication that boys and men can't be trusted not to rape girls makes me a sad panda.

It's funny how that is almost always the first thing to pop in to someones head. In all fairness, the girls are just as likely to want to have sex with the boys as the boys would like to have sex with the girls. We are talking about at least 10 young people with raging hormones wearing hiking boots out in the middle of the woods with only a few adults to make sure they behave. Personally from that perspective I don't think it would matter if we had women out watching the kids with us or not.

We are talking about at least 10 young people with raging hormones wearing hiking boots out in the middle of the woods with only a few adults to make sure they behave. Personally from that perspective I don't think it would matter if we had women out watching the kids with us or not.

It was always the hiking boots that did it for me too at that age. The feel of the leather, the scent of the camp dry and mink oil - Woo~! Boy, does that get my heart pumping and the hormones raging.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with girls joining the club. What is wrong is the club can't do the things it use to / people expect because the issue is adult Women will not volunteer (even when asked) to chaperon things like camping trips, but the parents complain heavily if we exclude the girls from said events.

I was only joking around. In all seriousness, there are differences between men and women. (Trust me, I've seen a woman naked once. Then my mom screamed and kicked me out of the bathroom.) Even beyond biological differences, there are different ways men and women think and react to certain situations. These differences are natural, and we as a society need to stop pretending they don't exist and being afraid to acknowledge them. I know that I can't carry a child or breastfeed, and I know that women can't wr

I kind of thought you might be joking, but I wanted to make sure I was clear on my position.

Anyway, I agree with you. I see no problem with letting Women participate in Male clubs/events and vice verse, but we shouldn't have to make special accommodations to do so. To me it seems in my situation the parents want their daughters to be treated as equals, but don't want them treated equally. The only solution is to not treat the girls like the boys, but to treat the boys like the girls.

And that comes from the biggest tomboy in the bunch, someone who probably would have made all the boy scouts in her year in school look like the wusses they were given the opportunity. But I didn't want the opportunity. I can be what I want to be and do what I want to do without ruining the boys' chance to be boys. They need their clubhouse with "No girls allowed" tacked on the side and they should have it!

And that comes from the biggest tomboy in the bunch, someone who probably would have made all the boy scouts in her year in school look like the wusses they were given the opportunity. But I didn't want the opportunity. I can be what I want to be and do what I want to do without ruining the boys' chance to be boys. They need their clubhouse with "No girls allowed" tacked on the side and they should have it!

(And as an aside, ALL parents, whether your troop is integrated or not, are a royal pain in the ass anymore. You're just another babysitter. Makes me sick.)

I am glad you agree.

Honestly the situation isn't the fault of the girls. The fault lies squarely with the parents, if even one of the mothers who wants their daughter in scouts instead of guides were to step up and go camping and/or hiking for the weekend the whole problem would be a non issue. Too bad my wife wouldn't go. She hates bugs and trees, sometimes I wonder about her.

I don't mind being a "babysitter". I get to have just as much fun as the kids. I probably learn just as much from them as I do f

Actually, you're wrong on the breastfeed part. It's not well known, but males have fully functional chests. The reason it's not well known is few men manage to turn them on, and the few that do, almost always by accident, hide the fact.

I consider myself with more democratic and somewhat liberal tendencies but this has just gone way too far. Ladies Nite is a tradition and if some cheap bastard doesn't want to shell out a miniscule cover, let him go elsewhere.

The joke I heard was on the comedy channel. It was a female comedian.
"Who gets to make fun of who?"
"It's actually really simple."
"If you're a White straight male you can only make fun of other White straight men."
"If you're Black you can make fun of other Blacks and White people."
"If your Hispanic you can make fun of other Hispanics and White people."
"If you're a woman you can make fun of other women and men."
"If you're gay you can make fun of other gays and straight people."
"I have a Black father,

I thought "Ladies Night" was a clever device with which to attract women which in sufficient quantity (and quality) would attach male customers. The presence of said women would result in the male visitors to spend more on drinks and add value to the cover charge.

Seems like the women pay by subjecting themselves to the male company.

i remember college house parties ("keggers" if you will) where they'd charge guys ten bucks at the door and let chicks in free. there was never a shortage of guys willing to pay ten bucks for access to college girls with access to kegs.

so where does this stop? we have local businesses around here that give seniors ten percent off on tuesdays, just for being old...

Seems like the women pay by subjecting themselves to the male company.

See, that's what they'd like you to believe. It's what (some) moms instill in us, movies tell us, and observation seems to confirm, but the truth is women are *people*, and people like attention, especially from potential mates. When they complain about attention, it's like a rich guy complaining about trying to decide what car to drive to the poor guy who's trying to find a reliable car he can afford. That's not to say they don't feel

Oh, and just to clarify: you're saying discrimination is okay as long as it's a tradition? Um, do you not fucking realize that that's exactly the argument they used (or at least were *thinking*) when the first US discrimination laws were enacted?

The reason bars do this in the first place is to attract more women there so I hope the idiot who filed this lawsuit over a $5-$10 cover enjoys the sausage fest that will now be every bar in Minnesota.

I agree. I wonder if the identity of this person is public knowledge? Because if so he's going to end up being _real_ popular.

But anyways, clearly the way to fix the problem is to just have a "skirt or bra night," where anyone who shows up wearing a skirt or a bra gets in without paying the cover. As long as they're willing to accept male cross-dressers (including people who aren't normally cross-dressers but are so cheap that they'll do it to save the cover charge) i don't think there would be any legal

What bar does ladies night any more? It has been a while since I was in school and I dont go to yuppy bars, but I ave not noticed an add for a ladies night in print or on the radio in years. And lets face it, none of the people on alsashdot have a social life anyways...