Do most christians believe in wizards?

I have made my self abundantly clear (as have most others on this forum) time and time again regarding what is objectionable about the beliefs and “works” of people like Falwell/Robertson.

It’s like asking Hanna Arendt what’s so bad about totalitarianism.
Or asking you what’s so bad about liberalism,secularism,evolution,
sanity,etc….Arendt has made her case,usually with a good deal of reason and scholarship. You have also made yours,only with a great deal of biblical balderdash,ideological idiocy,monolithic mindlessness etc…. ad nauseum, all topped off with a sense of humor that is reminscient of Gomer f**king Pyle!!!! :evil:

So you can take your “righteous anger” along with a pound of powder, and blow yourself to the “hell” you seem to think is
ok for unrepentant gays,atheists and just about everyone else.
On top of everything else,you are inconsiderate. Most of us come here to read the posts of others and come up with thoughful replies. That takes something called TIME,Champ. It is something
most of us don’t have enough of. Then you come along and waste
everyone’s time by making inane and idiotic posts about “Bo and Carrie”?!?!?! So how about it????:twisted: Oh,and you can take “Bo and Carrie” with you!!!

[quote author=“TheChampion”]Cynthia, so good of you to join us. Contraire…we all are exchanging ideas and discussing many topics, from crude oil production, to wizards, to politics, to economics, to the sins of the left wing…..DOH!

So there has been a wonderful exchange of ideas on this forum. However, at times I try to throw in ideas that may possibly bring glory to the most high, the almighty, the Lion of Judah, King of Kings, etc. (nothing wrong with that, right?). One would think that these clear concepts presented from the bible would draw you folks toward repentence. The gospel can set you free (the truth will set you free). However, surprisingly, these concepts are readily rejected by people “too smart” to receive them, or is it spiritual blindness:

The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (taken from 1 Corinthians)

Hence, Cynthia, if you do not have the spirit, you haven’t a clue what I am talking about. BUT WAIT! Do not discount the Holy Spirit which can use the word of God to draw you to salavation. I pray it happens for you, my dear.

Landulf II, you completely sidestepped the question. You are badmouthing Falwell and Robertson and haven’t provided a single solitary example of why? Again, I ask you (this time with righteous anger), which of their good works do you condemn?????

In lieu of sounding ridiculous I’ll just say it once more:
“I sure would like for you to realize soon how ridiculous you sound, not to mention the bible”.

[quote author=“fencesitter”][quote author=“TheChampion”]The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. (taken from 1 Corinthians)

In lieu of sounding ridiculous I’ll just say it once more:
“I sure would like for you to realize soon how ridiculous you sound, not to mention the bible”.

Quite . . . ironic how comfortable the more seriously faith-infected believers are with the religiofied version of re-education—the notion that if you don’t agree with us, it’s because you need to be properly educated, certainly not because you can make it “appear” as if our ideology lacks merit . . .

All things are possible (to believe) through faith.

Byron

- Feeding a troll just gives it a platform and amplifies its voice.

—

Reason is to understanding as theory is to music, and critical thinking as mastery of performance.

“We say, ‘Love your brother.’ We don’t say it really, but… well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either. But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins/Nigel Tufnel

[quote author=“TheChampion”]Hi ShieldAxe, I cannot fulfill your request. I am bounded by my master, Jesus Christ, and to follow his commands, as are all Christians. Therefore I pray for the salavation of these folks and that God will pour out his spirit and cause revival across the land.

I’m not giving the request, the bible is.

Leviticus 20:27 - A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them. :twisted:

Landulf II, my sincere apologies. I will try to be more considerate. I still think you are off base. Plus, you still have refused to tell me which of the good works that Falwell and Robertson do, that you condemn. I’m still waiting and would like to see your viewpoint (maybe I could something….).

ShieldAxe, again I would like you to preuse a bit further back. There is a new covenant between God and man via Jesus Christ. Those laws in the Torah, knock them if you wish, but Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the “Law,” and his message is love, forgiveness, but first you repent and turn from your sin. Not a hard request, is it?

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

ShieldAxe, again I would like you to preuse a bit further back. There is a new covenant between God and man via Jesus Christ. Those laws in the Torah, knock them if you wish, but Jesus Christ was the fulfillment of the “Law,” and his message is love, forgiveness, but first you repent and turn from your sin. Not a hard request, is it?

Nope. Sorry. Jesus said the old laws should be followed.

Matthew 5:18
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Obviously the bible states that the law will not be fulfilled until later (Till heaven and earth pass).

Good comment. But the was made to show man that he is a sinner and in need of a savior. If you and I walked through the 10 Commandments, we both would surely have broken a few, many times over. Know what that means? Somebody has got to pay for that sin.

Jesus sacrifice on the cross paid for our sins. Hey, we’re set free. We ought to be sitting on cloud nine!

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

[quote author=“TheChampion”]Good comment. But the was made to show man that he is a sinner and in need of a savior. If you and I walked through the 10 Commandments, we both would surely have broken a few, many times over. Know what that means? Somebody has got to pay for that sin.

Jesus sacrifice on the cross paid for our sins. Hey, we’re set free. We ought to be sitting on cloud nine!

Sorry but i’m not sure what you’re trying to say. You said before Jesus was fulfillment of the law and I showed that you are wrong. Now you are referencing the 10 commandments which is part of the old law so i assume you have changed your mind and now agree that the old law was not fulfilled. Is that correct? If so get out there and kill a wizard or two. :wink:

I’m gitting…I’m ah gitting tired ah trying ta explaining everthang to all you folks. Got to go over the same subjects agin and agin. Spiritual darkness reigns in you folks. BOY OH BOY. Thank “you know who” that I got a 3 day weekend coming up to just rest and refit.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

[quote author=“TheChampion”]I’m gitting…I’m ah gitting tired ah trying ta explaining everthang to all you folks. Got to go over the same subjects agin and agin. Spiritual darkness reigns in you folks. BOY OH BOY. Thank “you know who” that I got a 3 day weekend coming up to just rest and refit.

That’s it? Acquiescence already? Go ahead, take the weekend and try to reconcile the barbarism of the bible. I’m sure you’ll think of something.

[quote author=“ShieldAxe”][quote author=“TheChampion”]I’m gitting…I’m ah gitting tired ah trying ta explaining everthang to all you folks. Got to go over the same subjects agin and agin. Spiritual darkness reigns in you folks. BOY OH BOY. Thank “you know who” that I got a 3 day weekend coming up to just rest and refit.

That’s it? Acquiescence already? Go ahead, take the weekend and try to reconcile the barbarism of the bible. I’m sure you’ll think of something.

Champion, I don’t blame you for feeling exhausted. ShieldAxe has asked you some tough questions, and I don’t recall your ever answering them on these forums. I’ve heard other Christian apologists speak glibly about how parts of the OT are still valid and other parts have become obsolete—but the entire Bible remains God-inspired and each word and comma must be absolutely followed. I’d love to read your take on the matter of why it is no longer proper to stone prostitutes to death and why it’s now okay to eat a lobster dinner. Has lobster become cleaner over the centuries? Have prostitutes become cleaner? Have we learned something about cooking and storage techniques that would seem “new under the sun”? These kinds of questions occur to many people, and I invite your considered response, Champion.

Philosophy may in no way interfere with the actual use of language; it can in the end only describe it. For it cannot give it any foundations either. It leaves everything as it is.
Ludwig Wittgenstein

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

Nah, just frustrated. ShieldAxe, you simply refuse to learn or acknowledge truth. I should just cut and paste away the same explanations so I can use them again and again for you folks.

Don’t forget to put out your flag today.

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

I think the problem here is your monolithic view of the world.
You seem to think everyone else sees everything in black/white
terms. I never said Falwell/ Robertson don’t do ANY good works.
Hitler improved the economic well-being for millions of germans a
among other “good works”. Stalin helped to turn the Soviet
Union into an industrial power that helped (possibly more than
any other single nation) defeat nazi germany WITH the help of
Soviet industry.

I am sure both Falwell/Robertson do some “good works”.
Their organizations may help the poor and hungry, they
may help out in disaster relief efforts like the recent Tsunami.
Indeed,they claim rightful responsibility for many positive things.
I think Jim Jones could have done the same. The problem is;
everything else they do and support. It tends to cloud and IMO
render null and void any “good works” they do. Since you have
been so persistant i’ll reward you (understand I consider your persistence another thing that is sometimes positive,sometimes negative.) with a few examples. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson usually stand diametrically opposed to my positions on the following.
1. A women’s right to choose
2. Gay Rights
3. contraception
4. Freedom of expression
5. Freedom of the press
6. Freedom of religion
7. Sexual freedom
8. Animal/environmental rights
9. economic/social justice
10. Seperation of church and state
11. science/secular education

Just a few examples, I ‘m sure I can think of others. Not to mention the fact that they ,like yourself claim to believe in,support
and love an invisible all-powerful ubertyrant who condems,or excuse me, “permits” “human souls,” to suffer eternal torture for everything from not believing in him to not saying sorry for having sex before marriage. Since I do not believe there is a “hell”, the christian belief regarding it is not what troubles me, in and of itself.
It’s just that I wonder what people who seem to think eternal torture is justified-would justify and mabye participate in, on earth.

What if Falwell/Robertson had significant political power? What
if America and the rest of the world merely continued to be a “sodom and gomorrah” in their eyes? It is it possible they would
attempt to bring about “the second coming” through the use of nuclear weapons? From everything i’ve ever heard them say, I’m not really entirely convinced that they would not. If your looking for
me to condemn anyone in an absolute sense,you are really all wet.
The question I always ask regarding individuals and groups is simply from a somewhat utilitarian perspective: Do the actions,words, etc…of this group or individual make the world as a whole, a better place or a worse place? In the case of both Falwell and Robertson, I would generally submit the latter.