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coondoggie writes "NASA said that a group of its astronomers will have a front row seat in Australia to watch the Japanese spacecraft Hayabusa's high-speed, fiery return to Earth. It is bringing with it a hunk of the asteroid Itokawa. The spacecraft is expected to land in an unpopulated area of Australia at approximately midnight locally, or 7 am PDT, on Sunday, June 13. Some 30 NASA astronomers will be flying onboard a specially equipped DC-8 with instruments that can monitor Hayabusa's reentry."

At first I thought someone had had some good fun with their motorcycle. The Suzuki gsxr-1300 (aka Hayabusa) is more motorcycle than you really need and I imagine it would only take a little bit of tweaking to get it to space.

Maybe they're using a new kind of heat shield and want to see how it performs. It's really expensive to get something massive up into space and accelerate it down into the atmosphere at a speed that would cause it to burn up; maybe they have to wait for occasions like this to get good data.

It's not like they're going to be sitting on beach towels here, they're going to be observing the inbound flight from an airborne lab on a DC-8 to record the condition of the returning probe as it penetrates the atmosphere. As far as I remember the reaction control system is dead so this thing will be coming in on a trajectory much like an asteroid. Except it's man made and carrying a cargo we're interested in. It was designed for controlled re-entry but since that's not possible this is a great opportunity

You know, I've never bothered to research these at all. I kind of took it at face value that they were done by NASA for their projects. While some were popularized by the use by NASA, they still existed much earlier. And even Tang isn't a NASA product.

Don't think that coming in from 300,000 times the altitude is going to make a teeny-weeny bit of difference in the re-entry velocity? It's one thing to re-enter from orbit, but it's quite a different ball game to re-enter from an interplanetary trajectory. This bird will be coming in hot!

Don't think that coming in from 300,000 times the altitude is going to make a teeny-weeny bit of difference in the re-entry velocity?

No, it doesn't. You perform an appropriate delta v maneuver prior to reentry that puts you back into some elliptical Earth orbit, also prior to reentry (in fact, that's really the most amazing part of this mission, Hayabusa has done all of those prior maneuvers with one hacked together experimental plasma thrust after three other thrusters failed). After you do that recapture maneuver, you perform a second delta v burn that will slow you down to reentry velocity. It's not like you just point your spacecraf

No, it doesn't. You perform an appropriate delta v maneuver prior to reentry that puts you back into some elliptical Earth orbit...

I would have thought that's the way they were going to do it, however I can find no confirmation of that anywhere. From the looks of it, they're just doing a series of long retro thrusts to make Hayabusa's orbit around the Sun synch up Earth's orbit.

Regardless of how they are doing it, Hayabasu is going to have the second fastest re-entry of any satellite, over 12.2 km/s (

I would have thought that's the way they were going to do it, however I can find no confirmation of that anywhere

Awhile ago (Februaryish I think) there was a discussion of what Hayabusa was going to have to do to get back to Earth on Spaceflightnow and some other websites. Back then, the maneuvers that were described indicated that there would be a recapture maneuver (sorry I am far too lazy to go dig through old press releases to find those stories). However, upon reexamining what information I can find on Hayabusa, it appears that is either no longer the case, or it never really was and the profile suggested month

Considering they lost one of the shuttles and it's ENTIRE FUCKING CREW due to A HEAT SHIELD FAILURE, it seems that taking advantage of any available research opportunity into heat shielding is A GOOD IDEA!

Maybe you don't like NASA spending money on space.After all, we don't know what gains we'll get from it.Now that may be true, but then again, they've got a really good 'payback' rate, even if they aren't a profit center.You like your cellphones, your satellite or cable tv, weather reports and warnings, tons of materials, medicine, maths, electronics, and so many other things you could write a book about it, and people have, you really should thank NASA. Their contributions to the total knowledge and even applications of that knowledge is absolutely huge and in almost all fields of endeavor. (Except porn, I really don't think NASA has done anything on human sexuality in space, but I'm not sure of that.)

So if you want to crawl back into your cave and ignore the contributions they made and ignore the even greater ones that can only come about if they are allowed to do that research you call "boondoggles", then just remember the reply Faraday gave when asked what use electricity was, he simply replied, "What use is a baby?".

I don't recall the NASA married couple, but I do remember reading that the Soviet Union did quite a few mixed-sex missions to see what could happen.

I'm still waiting for the 0-G Kama Sutra to come out. I don't care if it's in Russian, I'd just be using it for the pictures anyways.:) "Hey sweetie, we haven't tried this position yet. Float upside down, and....."

It's all relative. I'd assume relative to what would normally be the "floor" of the cabin. If not, relative to the other observer (but hopefully not a relative of the observer). You always have to establish some point of reference for direction, which I'd assume would be done sometime well before you tried to get freaky in space.:)

You do realize that this is a JAXA (Japanese space agency) mission and not a NASA mission, right? NASA is being used for consultation only and, as such, the Japanese will be footing the bill for NASA's aid in this mission.

Don't let that stop your indignant rant about your taxes though...I wouldn't want to impede upon your right to act like a retard on the internet since you are a taxpaying citizen and all.

Ah, so an answer (albeit a very rude one!) to the very first phrase of my comment - "Please, someone tell me that no tax dollars are being spent..."

Do you have any proof for your claim that this is being paid for by the Japanese? The article seems to indicate otherwise - "The Hayabusa airborne observation campaign is supported by the In-Space Propulsion Technology Project in the Science Mission Directorate at NASA Headquarters, Washington." "Supported" sure implies funding, and there's no mention of JAXA f

Regarding my claim that JAXA is probably footing the bill, no, I have no citations to back that up. I know this is a JAXA mission because I have followed Hayabusa for years now, eagerly, so I have done research. I made the claim regarding NASA being hired as consultants based on past experiences working with NASA through other agencies (namely the university I attended and one of my previous empl

JAXA is not at all certain that it is bringing a "hunk" or much at all of Itokawa back with it.
The firing mechanism which was meant to fire a bullet into the asteroid malfunctioned.
They're just hoping it picked up enough residue.
After the various mishaps this spacecraft encountered, it's been a good effort to get it home.

But no matter what it brings back from Itokawa we can be certain that Godzilla will rise out of the dust of the Australian desert...

Especially as the piece of dust in the Australian desert they are talking about is the Woomera Prohibited Area. It is prohibited because of the high levels of radioactivity remaining from nuclear weapons testing. You couldn't script this better.

Is that a challenge? We've got a number of very creative people on slashdot who would be happy to take you up on that.

Just some ideas on how things could get better:

The observation craft crashes in said desert, with the only survivors being the three very attractive but brainy female NASA scientists who unfortunately were slightly injured and had to tear the midriffs from their shirts in order to apply tourniquets to the pilot of the plane, who, despite their best efforts, expired on the desert flats -- but not before handing our intrepid heroines a jailbroken iPad with a map of a secret city in the desert.

The secret city, of course, is populated by mutants who are engaged in a war of factions between the aborigines and the whites. The whites have a technological advantage, but are really mean. The aborigines, however, reveal secrets to our heroines via a half-naked drug-addled walkabout whereupon it is discovered that the residue from the asteroid contains the last component to the ritual that awakens Croczilla from his dusty resting place and floods the desert, who upon awakening will be hungry for the other other white meat.

That's all I've got so far, I'm not sure how they'll keep Croczilla from destroying the opera house in Sydney. However, I'm quite sure it involves ridiculous sci-fi weapons and more toplessness of our heroines, and perhaps some beer.

The firing mechanism which was meant to fire a bullet into the asteroid malfunctioned. They're just hoping it picked up enough residue.

True that. I wonder however, seeing as they are thinking that it's a tiny amount of residue rather than what they really wanted, whether it will be tainted on it's re-entry and landing process.

Not to mock their efforts, it's utterly amazing what they have done, and on what sort of budget, but I just hope that it doesn't go tits-up at the last moment for them with this - or worse yet, they do some research, and it ends up being called into doubt due to possible contamination.

There aren't many parts of the world that are unpopulated. And people do live in the bush in Australia. Just not many. That said, it'll take more than something falling from space to kill anyone who can rough it out there, since everything in the bush is deadly. Even the plants have it in for you.

As far as I can tell, any place with "prohibited area" in the name doesn't sound hospitable.

Oh sure, just because the place is teeming with unexploded munitions, you think it's somehow less hospitable than most of the bush? Please -- it's more hospitable! I mean, there's signs of civilization in there and stuff...

As far as I can tell, any place with "prohibited area" in the name doesn't sound hospitable.

Oh sure, just because the place is teeming with unexploded munitions, you think it's somehow less hospitable than most of the bush? Please -- it's more hospitable! I mean, there's signs of civilization in there and stuff...

It was used for open air nuclear bomb tests for many years. Beliive me you don't want to go there.

Any place called "prohibited area" sounds like a dare. It's kind of like putting a big "do not enter" sign with no obvious reason why. 95% of folks won't go. The rest of us will say "Hmm, I wonder why it's prohibited, lets go have a look.":)

Sometimes I don't deal well with authority, especially when it's just a line on a map that says "don't go here.". Well, unless I drew the line, but that would be because I already went there.:)

It is true that there aren't many parts of the world that are unpopulated. However, large tracts of Australia genuinely are. There are certain patches of Australia where it is likely that no human has ever set foot (yes, including Aborigines). There really are very few other places in the world that are as 'empty' as the interior of Australia. Antarctica obviously. And random areas of the Greenland ice cap. And not much else.

However in this case the area mentioned in the article is empty not because of its remoteness, but because it's a military reserve/testing ground. They did atmospheric nuclear testing there in the 50s. Non authorised personnel aren't allowed - so they can be reasonably confident it's 'unpopulated' for the purposes of the Hayabusa landing.

There are an awful lot of people that can't imagine being so far away from anything that they can't see a building, person, or at least hear a car in the distance.

Myself, I love places like that. The only car for 100 miles is the one I parked to go for a walk. The funny part about that is, I still lock the doors and set the alarm.:) It's a good idea to let someone know your starting GPS coordinates, and when you're expected to check in, and a set time to call for a search p

Heh you'd love Australia then. That describes most of the continent outside of the 10 or so main cities. Australians mostly live in a few large cities and there's not much in between them. You don't really get that continual patchwork of mid-sized towns and cities (50k-500k population) that you do in the US and Europe. You get a few huge metro areas (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide) with millions, a handful of mid-sized cities (e.g. Canberra/Newcastle/Wollongong/Gold Coast/Albury-Wodonga sized

Being the avid Sci-fi fan that I am, I can't help but wonder if the the people who made the choice of landing of Hayabusa in an unpopulated outback of Australia gave any thought to the idea that the asteroid Itokawa may be a source of biological contaminants?

What I'm saying is, Hayabusa lands in the heart of unpopulated Australia, then a small town in the area gets ravaged by "bio-terror", then the military issues a media blackout.. You know, the standard plot of a zombie outbreak ensues..

I can't be the only one who thought of this scenario.. Does anyone else think the same as me? Discuss!

tl;dr - Choice of remote Australian outback for Hayabusa to stem contagion fears in case of zombie outbreak?? Discuss.

I've never really got how "viruses from space" would be particularly dangerous. Viruses and germs and such didn't get dangerous by accident- they're highly evolved, highly specialised, purpose built to infect their hosts.

How adapted is something from another world, with completely alien biology, likely to be for infecting humans and other animals?

It would be dumb luck. Something that existed somewhere else in the universe that thrived, can handle living in space, and could infect those pesky mammals that think they own the earth.

If the panspermia theory is correct, that wouldn't be all that questionable. Well, if across the span of the entire universe, a rock happened to be tossed into space, that happened to have a virus, that happened to be able to survive to the earth, that happened to infect a mammal host b

There are quite a few opportunistic pathogens that are non-specialized, eg. soil bacteria that are normally free-living but if you're exposed with a weakened immune system or manage to get them into a wound, you may be in trouble. I imagine some space bugs might be dangerous in similar way, but indeed, spreading like wildfire from people to people is a mere fantasy - unless it's genetically engineered by the Evil Aliens(TM), of course.

No worries, I realized you were just trying to be funny. I've got no gripe with that. I'm not "getting my angst on" though. Not even sure I know what that means. I'm too old to have "angst" anyway. And besides, I happen to like that Megadeth song.:)

Does anyone know if there is more information? I.e. Which side of Australia will it approach from and a more exact time? I'll be a couple of hours out of Sydney and would like to know if it will be observable. A quick search around NASA's website and Google didn't reveal anything helpful.

Hmmm... hate to answer my own question, but the details of the trajectory are here: http://www.isas.jaxa.jp/e/enterp/missions/hayabusa/trj.shtml#newLooks like Western Australia should get a glimpse as it flies past, although I don't think you'd see it from Perth - would have to be a fair bit north of there I'd imagine... maybe somewhere in between Carnarvon and Karratha?

Nah -- too high. According to the site you provided, it'll be 600 km up when it crosses the coast. However, the folk to the northwest of Glendambo, SA should get quite a look. You'll remember Glendambo -- it's the town with the famous sign [excelsiortc.com]:

In case you haven't followed that drama you should do that now [wikipedia.org]. Keeping that bird in control, managing it to do some science and finally getting it back was seriously heroic by JAXA. This was easily the most problem-ridden probe ever making it back (well, almost now). I hope the last leg of that epic journey will go well.

....the operators had no idea whether it had collected material from the surface and it is likely they still don't know.

Yeah, well, leave it to the Slashdot community to just make shit up in the summary for no apparent reason. Look on the bright side, at least there aren't any threads on this story complaining about how bad the media is at factually portraying technical media. Sometimes the irony of those rants being posted on Slashdot is just too much to handle.

Its a 24 hour drive to Woomera, and from Saturday I will actually be allowed to drive again. But medically its just a really bad idea to spend two whole days on the road right now. It would be great to be close to the landing (or crash, or splat) but in reality I would just spend a few hours waiting at the road block with binoculars stuck to my eys, then turn around and go home.

There's an important point to the re-entry process, separate from the asteroid sample: the craft will be coming at interplanetary speed (about escape velocity from Earth) -- is much faster than typical re-entries from Earth-orbit. Seeing if the heat-shielding technology will work is important for future missions around the solar system.

There's an important point to the re-entry process, separate from the asteroid sample: the craft will be coming at interplanetary speed (about escape velocity from Earth) -- is much faster than typical re-entries from Earth-orbit. Seeing if the heat-shielding technology will work is important for future missions around the solar system.

Yeah I suppose so but the Galileo entry probe entered Jupiter at 45km/s or so and it survived okay. Designing a heat shield is really just a question of how much energy vs how thick to make it.

Yeah I suppose so but the Galileo entry probe entered Jupiter at 45km/s or so and it survived okay. Designing a heat shield is really just a question of how much energy vs how thick to make it.

You mean it survived OK for a little over an hour [wikimedia.org]. On a planet that may or may not have a solid surface to speak of, and probably has a huge "liquid" layer that the probe didn't get close to reaching it [wikimedia.org] (See the thin yellow line, the probe stopped communicating somewhere in there!) would be analogous to the Hayabusa completely burning-up before leaving the mesosphere [wikimedia.org].

The heat shield is for aerobraking which takes a few minutes at the most. There is no guarantee that this probe will survive for hours in the Australian outback without assistance, too.

Seeing if the heat-shielding technology will work is important for future missions around the solar system.

Unless they're using some radically new heatshielding materials (which I haven't heard of), not really. Heatshielding is a fairly well understood technology and surviving faster reentries is pretty much just a matter of a having a thicker shield.