You can interpret the political and socioeconomic reasonings for this stuff on your own. But this is the 2002 list. I took the time to add on the rankings for the top 25 cities since 1997 on the right so you can see the progression.

looks like I need to move. NJ is so freakin tiny and we have 3 of the top 25 dangerous cities? Luckily for me, I never have to go near those 3 dumps.

But Camden is just trash. I remember back in the late 80's going to the Rutgers campus in camden where my mother was going at the time. The campus was nice: grass lawns with trees and squirrels running around. Directly across the street: complete slum rowhouses with grafiti everywhere, mostly boarded up, and looking like total crack houses.

First, go to the link and look at the "Safest and Most Dangerous Metropolitan area." Metro area is a much better indicator of a given population cluster than city limits, which tend to be drawn based on the political situation of the area 100+ years ago. This is especially true in large cities. Here they are:

What surprised me about both the Metro area and Cities list is how dangerous the South is. The old industrial Northern Midwest and East Coast I expected (the media being what it is and all), but Savannah, GA? Jackson, MS? Sumpter, SC? Pine Bluff, AK (last year's most dangerous)? Where's the "8-mile" and "Boyz in tha Hood" type movies set in these places?

Second, these are for cities of 75,000+ that reported their statistics. In other words, the most dangerous places in America could very well not be on that list. Off the top of my head I can think of a few places under 75,000 people that are extremely dangerous. Notice, for instance, St. Louis is on there, but East. St. Louis isn't, despite the fact that by any objective measure, East St. Louis is way more dangerous. They also have a list of towns over 75,000 that were left out (including Grimis' either hometown or neighbor town of Silver Spring). In addition (from the site):

This year, several cities of 75,000+ population did not report complete crime information and thus were not included in the Safest Cities rankings. Chicago, IL, San Francisco, CA; Alexandria and Arlington, VA were the largest and most significant cities for which data were not available.

And

The metropolitan areas for which crime information is shown are those which meet two criteria. First, at least 75% of all law enforcement agencies must have reported crime statistics, and second, the central city/cities must have submitted 12 months of data in 2001. There are several metro areas that did not meet these criteria in 2001 and thus are not included in the report. Most notably, statistics are not available for the metro areas of Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Kansas City, San Francisco and St. Louis. Also data for last year's Most Dangerous Metro Area, Pine Bluff, Arkansas were not available.

So keep all that stuff in mind while interpreting political and socioeconomic reasonings.

Stuff that surprised me:

El Paso and San Antonio are among the top 10 safest 500,000+ cities. Those towns (especially El Paso) left me a "scrappy as hell" vibe when I visited. Texas also has two cities in the top 10 most dangerous 500,000+. So I guess you have arguements both for and against carrying guns to church and killing retarted 16 year-olds.

Columbus, OH is top 10 most dangerous big cities? Never would have guessed (although my wife's car did get broken into there).

7 of the top ten mid-sized safest cities are in California. But the most dangerous metro area in California (#10 nationwide) is Stockton-Lodi??? That makes zero sense to me. Can some West-Coasters shed some light on what makes STOCKTON so dangerous? Is it the bikers?

I was really expecting my high school town of Ann Arbor, MI or my college town of Madison, WI to be in the safest mid-sized cities (although WI did have 6 of the top 13 safest metro areas). I guess some honest-to-god-suburbs (Sterling Heights, MI for one) have gotten larger than 100,000 people lately.

Dayton, OH is on there? Someone better tell The Rick.

(edited by MoeGates on 3.12.02 1654)Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!

Can you believe that they have a major concert venue there? I went to see a show there about three years ago. Basically there was an entire squad of police lining the streets from Route 295 to the E Center to protect the concert goers.

I'm shocked Albuquerque made the metro area list.. there's one bad part of town, but outside of that, there's nothing. Probably depends on if the Indian Reservations are included in the Metro, because outside of the Casinos, they're often huge ghettos.

Utilizing the belief system and work ethic (Mattributes) of THE Matt Hardy to create a better life for yourself by fulfilling your goals and dreams. Mattitude is a quality that can help anyone -- regardless of background or past -- to achieve success. You just have to make it a lifestyle, a mindset, a religion. Mattitude, is something that can not be taught or learned. Mattitude is something that burns within. In the ring, Mattitude is the intangible, the x-factor, that gives me an advantage over everyone else.

Originally posted by MoeGatesThey also have a list of towns over 75,000 that were left out (including Grimis' either hometown or neighbor town of Silver Spring).

Yikes. That means I would live in Montgomery County and I know I couldn't live with myself! Plus, they'd try to convict me of hate speech. It's like what Sweden would be if they spoke English exclusively and had higher taxes.

Your interpreation of the data is fairly accurate though, especially when you take into account what was not included. That's why I included the link because this is certainly not the be all and end all of safety discussion, though I am shocked Baltimore(exactly 12 miles from home) isn't # 1.

Stockton has a HUGE gang problem - or at least they did when I lived up in the valley. I'm sure this is mainly based off of violent crime statistics - and when you have a fair number of gang shootings in a smaller city, it tends to skew the numbers.

I haven't been in Stockton for 8 years though, so someone else might have a better idea.

Your analogy is similar to:

"They already have cars that you can drive, why not blenders?""I can already write with my hands, why not my pancreas?""They already have beef that I can eat, why not granite?"

Guru, it's still shit. You hear constant complains about it from other areas of San Joaquin county (particularly Lathrop, where I work) as well as on the news at night. I'm rarely ever up there, but last time I was I didn't get a good feeling, and all I did was go to Wall Mart. The thing is I'm afraid our hometown of Modesto might be next to fall. Even though we're smaller, Modesto is very much a gang-banger-ville now. Turlock is probably the nicest place to live in the valley now, but I can see it going to pot in about another 10 years too.

To me, distinguishing between metro area and city limits is fine, but to me, a city is a city. If you want to say "This CITY is dangerous," it makes just as much sense I would think. It all just depends on how far you want to draw boundaries.

DMC

(edited by DMC on 3.12.02 1712)

(edited by DMC on 3.12.02 1713)

(edited by DMC on 3.12.02 1747)"Well I'm here to tell ya, that as you go out into the world you're gonna find, that you're not gonna amount to JACK...SQUAT!!!" -Matt Foley, motivational speaker

Nice to see Atlanta as number 2 (Hey I used to live in Dayton too, must be attracted to danger) and also to see that Atlanta isn't on Moe Gates list. Any other Atlanta people can tell you, hardly anyone lives in the actual city, and it is ghetto, but the metro area is nice.

Is this gangs as in Bloods and Crips or gangs as in Hell's Angels and Outlaws (or somewhere in between)? From my last visit there (also a while ago), I remember some unsavory biker-dudes, but not any of red bandanas (which are becoming more and more common here in NYC by the way).

How's Visalia in the valley? As long as I can still visit my grandparents without worry of a carjacking, all is right in the remnants of 50s middle-america in my mind.

(edited by MoeGates on 3.12.02 2225)Expressing myself EVERY day - but especially on July 22, 2002!

I'm actually quite surprised at this because Mound City really doesn't seem that dangerous. I mean, there are parts of the city I'd rather not frequent at times, but every major city worth its weight in crap has that problem. Downtown's not bad at all, though, nor is Forest Park or most of the other city attraction areas (like the Fox.) At least that's my impression, but then again I sit over here on the Illinois side in all its suburban glory.

Originally posted by MoeGatesThey also have a list of towns over 75,000 that were left out (including Grimis' either hometown or neighbor town of Silver Spring).

Yikes. That means I would live in Montgomery County and I know I couldn't live with myself! Plus, they'd try to convict me of hate speech. It's like what Sweden would be if they spoke English exclusively and had higher taxes.

Your interpreation of the data is fairly accurate though, especially when you take into account what was not included. That's why I included the link because this is certainly not the be all and end all of safety discussion, though I am shocked Baltimore(exactly 12 miles from home) isn't # 1.

Silver Spring isn't REALLY a city. It's more of an area. It isn't incorperated, so there's no mayor, but there is a city counsel.

it extends from the DC line and goes almost up to the Howard County line, that's almost half way to Baltimore...

My address is Silver Spring, but i'm like 5 miles north of Silver Spring proper...

DC is that cyan Diamond, and Baltimore is almost in the map, it's just a little up and to the right of the top right corner, you can see part of the baltimore beltway in the map.

"Downtown" Silver Spring is near the Beltway & Rt 29, and is really the "City" of Silver Spring.

As I worked for UPS, i unfortunatly have this committed to memory, all zip codes starting with 209xx is Silver Spring, and that's pretty much in the box i made...

to narrow it down around, we all refer to neighborhoods, because this whole side of the county is "Silver Spring" if i said i said i was in "Silver Spring" that's anywhere in an eight mile radius, but if i told you i was in Calverton, well, that would narrow it down. I also work in Silver Spring, but telling you it was Colesville helps narrow it down too...

and the sniper attacks happend in the neighborhood of Aspen Hill, in Silver Spring...

in a somewhat exaggerated way, it's like the difference of saying you're from NYC or saying you're from the Bronx...i guess...

edit: forgot, Silver Spring is usually considered part of the "DC Metro Area" so that's why it's usually never mentioned on it's own(edited by rikidozan on 4.12.02 0707)

"The path of the bookerman is beset on all sides by the inequities of the talented, and the tyranny of workrate freaks. Blessed is he, who in the name of tradition and sports entertainment carries the stiffs through the matches of Nitro, for he is truly the workrate's keeper, and the finder of lost quality. And I will lay the smack down upon thee with great vengeance and furious roid rage those who attempt to outwrestle and expose my brothers. And you will know my name as the Bookerman, when I lay my catchphrase upon thee!"

I'm actually quite surprised at this because Mound City really doesn't seem that dangerous. I mean, there are parts of the city I'd rather not frequent at times, but every major city worth its weight in crap has that problem. Downtown's not bad at all, though, nor is Forest Park or most of the other city attraction areas (like the Fox.) At least that's my impression, but then again I sit over here on the Illinois side in all its suburban glory.

As someone who resides in the Detroit Metro area (north of 8 mile), Im suprised and disappointed that we couldnt get the elusive four-peat. Granted, you cant be number 1 every year, but I expect our motown hooligans to bounce back and be number 1 next year.

After all we all know detroit is number one in:

-violent crime-hockey hysteria-making unreliable automobiles

"What do you mean 'Parts Unknown'? Are you telling me he doesn't have a social security number so we can track him down? How does he get a paycheck?" - G. Monsoon

I'm actually quite surprised at this because Mound City really doesn't seem that dangerous. I mean, there are parts of the city I'd rather not frequent at times, but every major city worth its weight in crap has that problem. Downtown's not bad at all, though, nor is Forest Park or most of the other city attraction areas (like the Fox.) At least that's my impression, but then again I sit over here on the Illinois side in all its suburban glory.

As someone who resides in the Detroit Metro area (north of 8 mile), Im suprised and disappointed that we couldnt get the elusive four-peat. Granted, you cant be number 1 every year, but I expect our motown hooligans to bounce back and be number 1 next year.

After all we all know detroit is number one in:

-violent crime-hockey hysteria-making unreliable automobiles

We'll give you hockey and violence if we can get football and keep baseball. Oh, you get basketball (since we've no team,) and we get...uh, actually give us basketball and you can have Nelly, so you'll have the market cornered on rap.

We'll give you hockey and violence if we can get football and keep baseball. Oh, you get basketball (since we've no team,) and we get...uh, actually give us basketball and you can have Nelly, so you'll have the market cornered on rap.

No do on the trade. Nelly is/are african-american, therby disqualifying them from the Detroit rap scene (see MNM, ICP, Kid Rock).

"What do you mean 'Parts Unknown'? Are you telling me he doesn't have a social security number so we can track him down? How does he get a paycheck?" - G. Monsoon

Having lived in Tampa, I am definitely not surprised. The crack deales and crack whores are everywhere. And, while I was in college, I didn't meet a single person who had a cd player in their car that didn't get stolen at one point.

The weird thing about Tampa, is that there really isn't a "nice" part of town. It's all sort of mixed up. And, until I moved there, I'd never called 911 in my entire life. I did it at least once a month while I lived there.

But there's lots of fun stuff to do.

And it's not surprising how dangerous Florida cities tend to be. We are a state full of weirdos. I'd say at least 60% of Springer guests are from Florida.