Peyton Manning is beyond a poor gamble right now, and if The Dolphins go Scott Mitchell from Green Bay, ya got one option for Snyder. And I'm quite confident Dan Snyder thought the Herschel Walker trade was a good one for the Vikings.

No to mention, RG3 is right in Shanny's wheelhouse in regard to what he likes to do with QB's. Holmy and Shurmy wants their's under center, Shanny from the gun.

Impossible to answer until FA, but if I was H&H (and I liked RG3) I'd be blowing smoke about how much we're in love with RG3 and how we'll pay whatever it takes to get him.

Every other suitor knows that if that's the case, they're SOL, since we have more to give than anyone else. Let one or two of them face that reality and settle for Manning or Flynn in FA. If you can bluff Washington into moving on to a FA option, that would do wonders for our leverage.

HoodooMan wrote:Impossible to answer until FA, but if I was H&H (and I liked RG3) I'd be blowing smoke about how much we're in love with RG3 and how we'll pay whatever it takes to get him.

Every other suitor knows that if that's the case, they're SOL, since we have more to give than anyone else. Let one or two of them face that reality and settle for Manning or Flynn in FA. If you can bluff Washington into moving on to a FA option, that would do wonders for our leverage.

AMEN. You are the only one I've seen who sees it my way.

It's how the Yankees get their free agents sometimes, only with money.When they've said they plan to target a FA, nobody gets in the bidding war.

And Dan Snyder may try to give up more, but he doesn't have the #4. Comes down to who the Rams are targeting- Blackmon?

I would try this bluff, but end up not giving up more than the 2 1st rdrs.If there is a down side, please tell me.

And if it does not work (RG is gone), I'd try to do what Heckert did last yr.Trade the #4 for more picks, including a 1 next yr. That way, they'll have this same flexibility to move up again in 2013.

Because that haul for Julio Jones was Atlanta's 1st, 2nd and 4th last yr and their 1st and 4th this yr. That type of deal would kiss #4 goodbye, but there still would be 2 1st rdrs this yr.

I'd sign up for some more of that, if Griffin is too expensive and a suitor is there.

andrew6586 wrote:Don't offer 22 until you have to. When you think about it, 4 and 37 should be more than enough to move down 2 spots. It's not a big jump at all.

That was before, when the contract that came along with a top 5 pick was a big negative. With the new CBA, top picks are more valuable than ever. You aren't moving up to 2 for any less than the two 1st's.

andrew6586 wrote:Don't offer 22 until you have to. When you think about it, 4 and 37 should be more than enough to move down 2 spots. It's not a big jump at all.

That was before, when the contract that came along with a top 5 pick was a big negative. With the new CBA, top picks are more valuable than ever. You aren't moving up to 2 for any less than the two 1st's.

Exactly. And especially in a year with two #1 pick worthy franchise QBs on the board, and the 3rd and 4th best players are a tackle and a wide receiver.

#4, #22, and something else its gonna take. You can take it to the bank.

And you pay it.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

andrew6586 wrote:Don't offer 22 until you have to. When you think about it, 4 and 37 should be more than enough to move down 2 spots. It's not a big jump at all.

That was before, when the contract that came along with a top 5 pick was a big negative. With the new CBA, top picks are more valuable than ever. You aren't moving up to 2 for any less than the two 1st's.

Exactly. And especially in a year with two #1 pick worthy franchise QBs on the board, and the 3rd and 4th best players are a tackle and a wide receiver.

#4, #22, and something else its gonna take. You can take it to the bank.

And you pay it.

And if you don't, someone else is paying a 1st/2nd this year and next and laughing all the way to the bank.

And traded that pick, their third round pick, and their first and fifth round picks the following year to move up to get Eli. That Giants team had lots of holes too. I don’t think they’re regretting it.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

JCoz wrote:I think the 4, our 2nd and next years 1st is a more valuable package than anyone will be able to or willing to match.

Which is most likely a top 5, and a lock for a top 10. And I like that package for the Browns as well, still lots of quality to be had later in the round to improve the team this season and next season.

Just a side note, I've not been real excited about a Browns season in a while. If they make a move and land RG3, I'd consider getting the NFL Ticket. Shit, maybe even making the pilgrimage back to the Motherland to see a game live. And I'm only a partial mope. Can you image the boost from the local Fan Boi? Just from a business standpoint, that move would generate immense profit.

And they have nothing to lose. The same A-holes who have season tickets and have been going to the "games" the past few season will still go regardless of the steaming pile they run out there every Sunday.

75% of the people in the stands are just there to drink heavily at 7am Sunday morning and not look outwardly like an alcoholic. The average guy needs a reason to justify blowing $300 to take his family to the game. RG3 would give people that reason. At least for one season.

Govbarney wrote:If Dan Snyder wants to give away more value the a 4,37, & a late round next year, then I say he can have him, there is all ways Barkley next year.

True, but we'll be having this same discussion, but with less ammo. I don't see the Browns as being the worst team next year, and Barkley could go #1.

The real question is can RG fall to 4? I'd imagine we'll have a better idea after all the pre-draft hand releases and verbal diarrhea. Dan Gilbert is making some noise, but he doesn't have the bullets the Browns do. He'd have to give up picks for the next 3 seasons. Browns could close the deal this year.

andrew6586 wrote:Don't offer 22 until you have to. When you think about it, 4 and 37 should be more than enough to move down 2 spots. It's not a big jump at all.

That was before, when the contract that came along with a top 5 pick was a big negative. With the new CBA, top picks are more valuable than ever. You aren't moving up to 2 for any less than the two 1st's.

Exactly. And especially in a year with two #1 pick worthy franchise QBs on the board, and the 3rd and 4th best players are a tackle and a wide receiver.

#4, #22, and something else its gonna take. You can take it to the bank.

And you pay it.

SD:

Charley casserly brought up a good point about the lamb rebuild , in that you don't necessarily want all your extar ammo in the same year .

So for discussion , I profer our #4 our #37 one of our fourths this year and next years second , which I'd upgrade to the #1 if pushed to keep my #22 this year , which gives me Miller or Adams or Burfict or even more picks if I can trade down.

And traded that pick, their third round pick, and their first and fifth round picks the following year to move up to get Eli. That Giants team had lots of holes too. I don’t think they’re regretting it.

jb wrote:Two firsts this year and whatever crap they want after round 3 this year and next. No more 1sts, ends and 3rds.

SD:

Two interesting developments have come out recently besides the fact of RG3 being closer to 6' 2 and a half rather than six foot.

Jeff fisher seems amenable to make the deal for the pick prior to the draft .

Which makes since so he can plan his free agency moves , as could we if we snagged the choice now .

and secondly

Shurmur has been given an emboldened voice , it was his comments scrolled across the bottom of NFLN stating we have our #4 and #22 to use in moving up .

Kinda unprecedented statements so early and shows he's had enough and isn't gonna take anymore Colt McCoy poured on his plate with a garnish warmed over or tossed and served .

Most new coaches want their own guy , ...

I think Shurmur just told us he's bought the ring and signed the mortgage papers.

Al Micheals asks """Do you believe in miracles """

SoulDawg

Plus I think it's an attempt to flush out Washington and Miami to say "either you are going to have to throw the kitchen sink to beat our offer or start looking elsewhere (ie. free agency)".

IF Washington/Miami make a play at Flynn at Manning then we might be better able to push back on the offer with STL. Think it's gonna take #4, #22 and a 4th and 4rd next year as it stands now.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

Govbarney wrote:If Dan Snyder wants to give away more value the a 4,37, & a late round next year, then I say he can have him, there is all ways Barkley next year.

Dangerous line of thinking which I see other people have as well.

There's "Barkley next year"? You sure about that?

Let's say he plays the way people think he will and is in line for #1 overall. You sure the Browns will even be as high as #4 to even have a remote shot of trading it all next year to get him? With a good draft and some slightly better QB play, it's not hard to see the Browns winning 6 or 7 games, which puts them well out of Barkley territory.

Then there's the possibility that Barkley has some massive injury, or plays like shit.

I think RG3 is a better prospect than Barkley anyway, but that's just opinion. What's fact is that the odds are incredibly low that the Browns will be able to acquire the #1 (or even #2) overall pick next year. Counting on it is CRAZY.

The way I see it, even the bad franchises don't get this high every year, and even this high it looks like you STILL need to trade up to get that elite prospect. Even from #4 this ain't gonna be easy.

Waving your hand and saying you'll take care of it later is the response you give when you have no real intention of ever painting that bathroom.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

Govbarney wrote:If Dan Snyder wants to give away more value the a 4,37, & a late round next year, then I say he can have him, there is all ways Barkley next year.

Dangerous line of thinking which I see other people have as well.

There's "Barkley next year"? You sure about that?

Let's say he plays the way people think he will and is in line for #1 overall. You sure the Browns will even be as high as #4 to even have a remote shot of trading it all next year to get him? With a good draft and some slightly better QB play, it's not hard to see the Browns winning 6 or 7 games, which puts them well out of Barkley territory.

Then there's the possibility that Barkley has some massive injury, or plays like shit.

I think RG3 is a better prospect than Barkley anyway, but that's just opinion. What's fact is that the odds are incredibly low that the Browns will be able to acquire the #1 (or even #2) overall pick next year. Counting on it is CRAZY.

The way I see it, even the bad franchises don't get this high every year, and even this high it looks like you STILL need to trade up to get that elite prospect. Even from #4 this ain't gonna be easy.

Waving your hand and saying you'll take care of it later is the response you give when you have no real intention of ever painting that bathroom.

Yes.

And people need to realize how freak a year THIS one is. Cause next time there's two QB prospects of this caliber, and the team sitting number two having the clear the No. 1 QB prospect from last year is unlikely. And unlikely is too soft a word.

Also, it doesn't kill you financially anymore, so it ain't gonna be a walk in the park to trade up to one or two in ANY year anymore.

Heard on the radio that Washington is prepared to offer this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next year's 1st.

So that's the jump off point.

Personally, I'd pay that in a heartbeat, even though I was hoping the price would be less. I'd let them know they can take 1-3 this year and either next year's 1st OR #22 this year. Either way, Washington (or anybody) Simply cannot hang with the Browns if we H&H decide that RG3 is our guy. I would absolutely shout that from the rooftops. Make Wash have to consider the real fact that they simply do not have the ammo this year.

Something to consider: I really believe that StL would rather deal with the Browns. I believe that Kalil is their guy. I believe that they know there is a good chance that Kalil will be sitting there at #4 if they trade with us. They have to know that Kalil will definitely be long gone at #6 if they trade with Washington.

In the end, that is going to matter to them, and I believe that because of Kalil, Washington is going to have to crush the Browns offer to get that spot, and I don't think they can do it.

motherscratcher wrote:Heard on the radio that Washington is prepared to offer this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next year's 1st.

So that's the jump off point.

Personally, I'd pay that in a heartbeat, even though I was hoping the price would be less. I'd let them know they can take 1-3 this year and either next year's 1st OR #22 this year. Either way, Washington (or anybody) Simply cannot hang with the Browns if we H&H decide that RG3 is our guy. I would absolutely shout that from the rooftops. Make Wash have to consider the real fact that they simply do not have the ammo this year.

Something to consider: I really believe that StL would rather deal with the Browns. I believe that Kalil is their guy. I believe that they know there is a good chance that Kalil will be sitting there at #4 if they trade with us. They have to know that Kalil will definitely be long gone at #6 if they trade with Washington.

In the end, that is going to matter to them, and I believe that because of Kalil, Washington is going to have to crush the Browns offer to get that spot, and I don't think they can do it.

President Kennedy once said (when he wasn't balls deep in some starlet) its impossible to defend yourself against one willing to give his own life.

Same applies here. I'm sure people didn't think the Vikings had that much to give for Herschel. Dan Snyder, when it comes to NFL football, is an asolute moron. Rational thought doesn't apply. It sure appears the Browns have more to give, but again, the guy is a loose cannon.

Hopefully he aims some foolish offer Flynn's way, but either way, as RG3 contnues to raise his stock at workouts, the final price tag is going to be brutal.

I don't see St Louis dropping to 6 and risk missing out on both Blackmon and Kalil, FTR

I offer up both this yrs #1's and next yrs as an Ace in the hole if thats what it takes not only because of RG's skillset but, also to energize a fanbase than has absofuckinglootly run out of patience....

Hope is a moment now long pastThe Shadow of Death is the one I castKoo koo ka joob....I am the Walrus

motherscratcher wrote:Heard on the radio that Washington is prepared to offer this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next year's 1st.

So that's the jump off point.

Personally, I'd pay that in a heartbeat, even though I was hoping the price would be less. I'd let them know they can take 1-3 this year and either next year's 1st OR #22 this year. Either way, Washington (or anybody) Simply cannot hang with the Browns if we H&H decide that RG3 is our guy. I would absolutely shout that from the rooftops. Make Wash have to consider the real fact that they simply do not have the ammo this year.

Something to consider: I really believe that StL would rather deal with the Browns. I believe that Kalil is their guy. I believe that they know there is a good chance that Kalil will be sitting there at #4 if they trade with us. They have to know that Kalil will definitely be long gone at #6 if they trade with Washington.

In the end, that is going to matter to them, and I believe that because of Kalil, Washington is going to have to crush the Browns offer to get that spot, and I don't think they can do it.

I heard this too, and I think that you beat it with:

Both 1's this year. The higher 4th rd. pick. 2nd next year.

So the Rams get #22, a (probably high) 2013 2nd, and a 4th to move down 2 spots and STILL probably get Kalil.

WAS: #6, #1 next year (could be around 22), #39, #70

CLE: #4, #22, #2 next year (could be about 39), #100.

Not only is that deal completely comparable, but preferable b/c the 4 is so much better than the 6. Look how much that 2 spot jump is already worth.

But my deal comes with the expiration date of March 12th.

It's a lot to give up, and I can totally understand the reservations. If they don't do it, I won't crucify them. They'd just better be f-ing right.

But you receive/retain: A pick in every round of the draft this year. A pick in every round of next year (except the 2nd). And RG3 (well, you have to use that 1st pick on him, so I guess he was already mentioned).

Personally, I make that proposal tonight and give them the 2 weeks to figure it out. It's not a Hail Mary, b/c I truly believe that at the WORST - at a level that would be considered a Bust b/c of the potential he had - he's still slightly better than Colt McCoy. That's just how much higher his ceiling is.

I also don't think that trade is a franchise-crippler even should RG3 be kidnapped by Iranians the day after the draft.

And what if he actually lives up to his potential? What if he's football LeBron (minus the lifelong entitlement, of course)?

If you let him go, do those guys you take at #4, #22, and next year's 2nd make up for it?

Does the combination of Morris Claiborne, Kendall Wright, and Alex Okafor (DE - Texas, projected low 1st, high 2nd) make you no longer wonder "What If"? Is their contribution greater than a possible star QB?

Last edited by Hikohadon on Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If thats what the Skins are offering in late Feb, that means that's not the max they'll go.

Agree 100% with Hiko's thoughts and counter. I think that's what'll happen, and then the Skins will up the ante and move to their final, improved, insane offer. That I will be cheering for the Browns to beat.

Perfect effing storm for the Rams at #2 with this pick. They're going to get the mother load in return for it.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

Fire Marshall Bill wrote:I don't see St Louis dropping to 6 and risk missing out on both Blackmon and Kalil, FTR

I offer up both this yrs #1's and next yrs as an Ace in the hole if thats what it takes not only because of RG's skillset but, also to energize a fanbase than has absofuckinglootly run out of patience....

If they don't take Kalil at #2, they can't count on him surviving past 3, nevermind any further. And I'm pretty sure Blackmon WOULD be there at #6.

For the record, much as I love RGIII, if we have to give up close to what WSH is willing to give up, then I'm out. Too many good young players to give up.

motherscratcher wrote:Heard on the radio that Washington is prepared to offer this year's 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and next year's 1st.

So that's the jump off point.

Personally, I'd pay that in a heartbeat, even though I was hoping the price would be less. I'd let them know they can take 1-3 this year and either next year's 1st OR #22 this year. Either way, Washington (or anybody) Simply cannot hang with the Browns if we H&H decide that RG3 is our guy. I would absolutely shout that from the rooftops. Make Wash have to consider the real fact that they simply do not have the ammo this year.

Something to consider: I really believe that StL would rather deal with the Browns. I believe that Kalil is their guy. I believe that they know there is a good chance that Kalil will be sitting there at #4 if they trade with us. They have to know that Kalil will definitely be long gone at #6 if they trade with Washington.

In the end, that is going to matter to them, and I believe that because of Kalil, Washington is going to have to crush the Browns offer to get that spot, and I don't think they can do it.

SD:

Washington supposedly has no interest in Flynn ...."NO ARM " system QB.

They'll chase Manning make a bid for RG3 and settle on Tanneyhill in that order .

I expect Flynn to be a Dulphin to run Philbins system . and the browns to include next years 2013 to make Randy happy and keep their jobs .

Guy went to the combine and showed no signs of wear, no chinks in the armor ( he's not chinese so I can use that I think ). He didn't show up fat, he didn't have medical scare, he interviewed well, was engaging and athletic.

He didn't drop the ball.

As I said in the Wrap, NFL guys already knew how athletic and bright he was. This right now is all media driven hype. The cost may get higher because of his private interviews, film sessions and his Pro Day (least important of all) but it didn't get higher because of today.

As much needling and ball busting as I'll do, they already knew this. That he didn't come in and Mike Adams the event was really all he had to do.

The 6'2 and a 1/2" thing was bigger than his workouts (although those were ridiculous).

Fuck Vinnie Cerrato and any other disconnected fuck wad now living by creating clicks and listeners.

This ain't where the going got pricey. That's still possibly to come though.