Better with a controller?

May 21st, 2011, 20:07

Come on guys - the combat controls in TW 2 are indeed more "actiony" than on TW 1.

TW1 controls were perfect for keyboard/mouse. Given the whole pallawa that CDprojekt had with the devs who were supposed to convert TW1 to console for them, perhaps they decided to do most of the work themselves this time, and make it more controller friendly from the start.

I agree with this, TW2 is definatly more Consoely, and its pretty sad a supposedly designed for PC Game works so much better with a controller. TW1 definatly had better kb/mouse controls, because the Aurora engine was indeed a engine that was 100% for PCs as opposed to the Red Engine. Still the combat is as bad as gothic games, and the whole thing is poorly balanced for anyone who isnt masochistic. I just dont see what some of our old school fellows are saying about this 'great balanced' system. I really hope more games take a page from TW2 on Story writing and world design but goddess forbid them from using similar combat systems.

Regardless, I'd almost wager real world money TW2 will be on consoles by next year if not sooner, it seems like it'd be so easy to port it over, of course I'd also bet the difficulty gets toned down, no one is dumb enough to release a ultra hard game on consoles. Even DKS and DA:O had "alternate balancing" on consoles.

Originally Posted by Thaurin
What a load of bollocks. The PC had game controllers for almost as long as there are games for it. They are not exclusive to consoles and PC gaming does not equal keyboard + mouse.

Ha! The Gothic games had one of the best combat I've ever seen in my life!

Can you name another PC "exclusive" RPG that uses a gamepad as it's preferred control method?

What percentage of PC games outside of serious flight sims (joystick & throttle) and racing games (wheel & peddles) that prefer a controller of any sort over keyboard & mouse input? 1%? I seriously doubt 5%.

I can't speak for Gothic 1. Gothic 2 had great combat balance but the controls were a little stiff. Gothic 3 combat at release was atrocious and only got marginally better even with all the community patches. Risen was the best of the bunch and I wish I could take it's movement & camera controls and put them into TW2 instead of it's current gamepad oriented controls.

Claiming that TW2 works "better" with a controller is opinion, not fact. Other than the annoyance of not being able to remap all the keys (which is easily bypassed with a keymapper), TW2 felt just like any other PC game to me.

Originally Posted by LuckyCarbon
Can you name another PC "exclusive" RPG that uses a gamepad as it's preferred control method?

What percentage of PC games outside of serious flight sims (joystick & throttle) and racing games (wheel & peddles) that prefer a controller of any sort over keyboard & mouse input? 1%? I seriously doubt 5%.

Is a gamepad really the preferred control method for The Witcher 2? Like JDR13 says, it's a matter of opinion. I tried it with keyboard today, works fine. Yes, even the UI, although improvements can be made. I even think the UI works a bit better with keyboard and mouse, since you can click anywhere.

And why would you exclude joysticks and racing wheels? That's just silly. Someone said somewhere that FPS games and strategy games (TBS/RTS) work better with mouse on PC. This is obvious. Other than that, there aren't that many recent PC exclusives left that I can think of. Some of them are bound to include gamepad support out of the box. I bet it's more than 5%, but why try to prove the point.

Oh, as for the Gothics, I was talking about the first two only. The controls felt awkward in the beginning only because your character was still learning how to fight. The feeling of progression was fantastic.

I mapped the controls to a gamepad when I played them. The game did not support it out of the box, but to me if was the preferred control method, at least.

I started TW2 a couple of days ago and came looking for this thread as I knew it would be here. The console nature of the interface hit me straight away. It isn't anything like the one used for Dungeon Seige 3 but it is still there.

What really gave it away is how the movement keys work.
In all PC games WASD work similar to this:
W forward, S makes your character walk/run backwards, A/D makes your character turn in that direction or strafe in that direction.

In most console games (and how TW2 works) W is still forwards (or up the screen) but S makes your character turn around and run down the screen. A/D make your character turn and run in that direction. This setup on a PC game with a keyboard is really disconcerting.
In a fight I can't make my character backup. Pressing S causes him to turn around around and run away, not what I wanted at all.

In most console games (and how TW2 works) W is still forwards (or up the screen) but S makes your character turn around and run down the screen. A/D make your character turn and run in that direction. This setup on a PC game with a keyboard is really disconcerting.
In a fight I can't make my character backup. Pressing S causes him to turn around around and run away, not what I wanted at all.

It is not about controller vs QASD. It is about combat based on mobility (light armour eg) and combat based on attrition (heavy armour eg).

The Witcher is like a whirlwind (well implemented thanks to auto targeter) in a battle, moving fast to strike here or strike there to keep everyone on the backfoot and avoid being surrounded as his attrition capacity is low, the most valuable chance to survive when facing opponents that have largely superior attrition survival capacity.

Take a loot at Skyrim videos which I think were displayed on consoles. It is heavy armoured style of fighting: backwards puts the character on backpedal, mobility is tertiary importance.

Other consoles games (with controllers) have that that a character locking on a target backpedals (slow movement), when unlocked, the character runs in the backwards direction.
Other games make use of analogics control (soft pressure on stick gives the character to backpedal, heavy pressure on stick gives the character to run backwards)

It is all the issue of a game like The Witcher 2 which gives a fairly consistent version of combat based on the qualities of the character while it appears players would prefer another version, much less consistent but more suited to their tastes (id est a light fighter fighting like a heavy fighter in the present case)

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur
It is not about controller vs QASD. It is about combat based on mobility (light armour eg) and combat based on attrition (heavy armour eg).

No, it is about the movement style. How awkward is it in a tight room trying to get a chest highlighted to loot?
Geralt looks like an idiot as he crashes from one side of the room to the other to get the loot icon up on screen.
The WASD movement style implemented in The Witcher 2 is a complete pain in the arse to use with a keyboard.

Originally Posted by pox67
What really gave it away is how the movement keys work.

*snip*

W is still forwards (or up the screen) but S makes your character turn around and run down the screen.

That doesn't make it a console interface. Two Worlds controls the same way, and I don't see people claiming that it feels like a console game, just that they don't like the camera.

It sounds like you're just more accustomed to a "chase cam" where the view is locked behind you, like in the Gothic series or Elder Scrolls. I'm the same way, and so are a lot of other members here.

Originally Posted by pox67
How awkward is it in a tight room trying to get a chest highlighted to loot?
Geralt looks like an idiot as he crashes from one side of the room to the other to get the loot icon up on screen.

You don't need to move Geralt to change what's being highlighted. I was making the same mistake for awhile. You only need to change the viewing angle with your mouse. It's still not perfect, but I prefer that over wrestling with the analog sticks on a gamepad.

Originally Posted by JDR13
That doesn't make it a console interface. Two Worlds controls the same way, and I don't see people claiming that it feels like a console game, just that they don't like the camera.

It sounds like you're just more accustomed to a "chase cam" where the view is locked behind you, like in the Gothic series or Elder Scrolls. I'm the same way, and so are a lot of other members here.

I don't remember the first Two Worlds being like that. I haven't played the second one but if it has the same controls that would be disappointing.

Thank you, chase cam was the term I was looking for.
I much prefer the chase cam style and see no reason why it wouldn't be implemented on a game controlled by a keyboard and mouse. Unless you are also developing for console and are lazy.

Skipped most of this argument, but my two cents is this: I'm playing TW2 with an xbox controller. It feels better to me than keyboard and mouse. In fact, ever since I bought the controller 2 years ago, I play every single game that way except for strategy games which by nature require the keyboard. I am thrilled that they have included support for my controller, and I couldn't care less about how it weighs in with the PC versus console debate. I have always been and will always be a PC gamer.. Just give me my controller to use with it!

— ..& so they take the fiction all out of the Jabberwock & I recognize & accept him as a fact. - Mark Twain, May 30, 1880

Ah, I forgot to mention one thing - I really wish they would have supported feedback vibration with this game. If ever there was a gimmick in gaming, it's not 3D… Oh no, it's force feedback. Dumbest thing they ever made. In this one particular case however, it would have been so awesome if they made the controller vibrate when Geralt's medallion was triggered! I find sometimes that monsters get the jump on me because the icon for the medallion is so small and the music sometimes doesn't change quick enough.

— ..& so they take the fiction all out of the Jabberwock & I recognize & accept him as a fact. - Mark Twain, May 30, 1880