Thursday Randoms - Eurobike 2012

Maxxis goes 27.5The excuse many people keep citing about there being a not enough 27.5" tires to choose from is quickly losing credit. Maxxis is the latest tire giant to join the 27.5" club, with their well-liked Highroller II and Ardent models bridging the gap between 26'' and 29'' sizes. Aggressive riders will be stoked to see that the Highroller II comes in a high volume 2.4" width, complete with Maxxis' ST (Super Tacky) rubber compound. The faster rolling Ardent will be available in a slightly smaller 27.5'' x 2.25'' size, but uses Maxxis' EXO Protection sidewall to greatly limit the chance of cutting the tire's casing on sharp edges.

So does SuntourMore proof that 27.5'' is coming can be found in the Suntour camp, with an entire range of forks planned for the 'tweener wheel size. The 27.5'' compatible, high-end Axon Werx RL RC, with its carbon/magnesium lowers and Q-Loc 15mm thru-axle, sits on the far right in the photo above, but the two SLA mockups to its left hint at whats to come. Who noticed the hidden thru-axle portion of the fork on the far left? Expect a 160mm travel, 27.5" specific Durolux fork from Suntour in the near future, with it employing the same aluminum damping cartridge that can be easily serviced or swapped out by any home mechanic. In a time when many fork manufacturers seem to be forgetting that consumers are looking for more than just the fork with the most complicated internals, Suntour is pumping out suspension that works well while still being able to be serviced by nearly anyone.

Carbon DH bikeAstro had this interesting looking, 8.3'' travel downhill bike hanging up on a wall of their booth, complete with both a carbon fiber front and rear triangle. The dual-link design uses a floating shock that is attached to the upper and lower links as opposed to being rigidly mounted to the front triangle - far from a new approach, but it does look well executed on the clean looking carbon frame. The lower link pivots concentrically around the bottom bracket shell, and the shock is nearly completely hidden within the frame. It looks great, but we'd love to spend a few days aboard one and report back.

VP pedalsThere are plenty of interesting pedals to see at this year's show, including these new Pilot pedals from VP. While not exactly heavy at 400 grams, VP has clearly put an emphasis on strength, ground clearance, and traction instead of battling for gram counter honours. The forged and CNC'd pedal body spins on sealed bearings, including a massive inboard bearing up against the crank arm, and sports seventeen sturdy pins per side.

Bell Full-9 full face Bell's new Full-9 downhill helmet has the DNA of their popular moto lid, the Moto-9, but in a lighter and slimmed down package that won't have riders looking like a bobble head doll as the come down the trail. While Eurobike is the first official showing of the new helmet, Aaron Gwin has actually been wearing it during recent World Cup rounds, as well as an early prototype dubbed the 'Proto-9' internally, providing feedback as to what he wanted in a helmet. The result is a 1050 gram, carbon shelled full face with a number of interesting features. Retail price is set at $400 USD, and there are six sizes available that are built around three different shell sizes.

You'll count ten proper vents on the helmet's shell, as well as an overbrow system with three channels (opened up compared to the Moto-9) that sits just above the rider's goggles, but the real trickery is hidden inside. The helmet's cheek pads are held in place via three strong magnets per pad, allowing them to be easily pulled out for washing or to let the sweat dry out before the next run, but not fall out when pulling the helmet off. The removable cheek pads also let first responders slip the pads down and out, making it easy for them to remove the helmet without causing more damage if the worst does happen. With that in mind, Bell has also built-in a shallow depression into the inside of the shell that is designed to be fitted with the Eject Helmet Removal System (sold separately) that allows medics to pump air into a small bladder, lifting the helmet off of the rider's head without risking more damage to the neck or spine.

The Full-9 is CPSC, CE, and ASTM Downhill certified, but it also incorporates some neat features that have nothing to do with safety. Bell has included an integrated helmet camera mount that clicks into the lid's top vent, putting it in just the right spot for a proper perspective; no more Velcro straps or zip-ties required. We tinkered with it at the show and it is a clever unit, being both quickly removable when you don't want to film, as well as employing a breakaway element that will limit the chance of smashing your expensive camera when you do the scorpion into the ground. The Full-9 ships with removable mounts for both GoPro and Contour cameras. Inside you'll find built-in speaker pockets for headphones - perfect for those days when you'd rather listen to tunes than your buddies. A cable routing channel keeps everything tidy.

Bell SegmentSkate-style helmets are usually a simple affair that use a thick plastic shell around a foam interior; there isn't a ton going on with most. But Bell's new Segment is quite different from the status quo. The helmet takes its name from the segmented EPS foam construction, with multiple sections being allowed to move independently from one another as opposed to the usual one-piece construction. The segmented foam interior is combined with a slightly thinner than usual shell that flexes enough to allow the helmet to actually conform to the rider's head. Holding the Segment in your hands and squeezing the sides together reveals quite a bit of flex, especially when we did the same test back-to-back with their traditional Faction model.

We gave the Segment a quick test fit and have to admit that, at least on our head, it has a great fit. Pressure feels more even around the head when compared to a standard helmet, proving to us that the design certainly has something going for it. Bell's goal is to greatly improve the fit and comfort over the standard offerings while still keeping the traditional skate-style appearance on the outside, as well as meet the required safety standards (the Segment carries an ASTM F2031 BMX enhanced rating). Expect the 410 gram Segment to be available this coming February, with a retail price between $55 and 65$ depending on the model.

Bell SuperThe third new helmet in Bell's 2013 lineup is the Super, a model aimed squarely at the enduro/super-d crowd, or any rider who is looking for a bit more protection than what a pure cross-country helmet offers. This isn't just a beefed-up XC lid, though, with it sporting a number of novel features that set it apart from the crowd. The most interesting of these is the clever goggle compatibility that uses an extension on the visor to keep the goggle's strap in check. The helmet's visor also pushes up on-the-go to allow the goggles to be placed on the front of the helmet when they aren't needed, on a long climb for example, to keep them from fogging up. Don't want to use the visor? No problem. Clips are included that attach at the visor mounting points, keeping the strap in place even if you aren't rocking a visor. The Super also employs a helmet camera mount (it isn't quite as dialled as the one used on the Full-9, though), as well as a vented overbrow section that compliments the helmet's twenty five other openings. The Super will be available in May for $125 USD.

Mid-travel Da BombDa Bomb's EMP Attack employs a rocker link with two shock mounting positions for its X-Fusion damper, allowing the rider to pick from 4.7" or 5.4" of rear wheel travel. The rear end uses a conventional four-bar layout and a low main pivot, as well as a 12 x 142mm thru-axle dropout. The requisite tapered head tube and ISCG-05 chain guide tabs are also present, and the claimed weight for the frame is 3535 grams/7.8lbs - don't expect to be building up a sub-30lb bike based around the EMP Attack, but it should offer a solid ride. Da Bomb also offers a similar platform with 29" wheels, although it uses a non-adjustable shock mount that gives it 4.2" of travel, and standard, 135mm QR dropouts.

Slope styleWith a drastically sloping top tube, short rear end, and burly-looking construction, the 100mm/4" Travel Revolution has been designed with slope style and dirt jump use in mind, although it still sports a direct mount front derailleur attachment point that would allow a rider to build it up as a solid trail bike. Da Bomb includes a clever shifter mount (that is also available separately) that bolts to the frame using bottle cage mounts, eliminating the shift cable from the equation when doing bar spins or tail whips.

HT Super Light PedalsHT offers a massive range of pedals, with everything from nylon bodied jobs, to proper, DH-worthy models, and even some ridiculously light options. Weighing in at just 205 grams for the set, the pedals shown above certainly fit into that last category - 205 grams is less than half of what many other options on the market weigh. Will they last? Are they safe? We have no idea; these are only prototypes at this point, but given HT's lineup of seriously lightweight pedals, we wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if they not only make production, but also function just fine on the trail.

The prototype pedals, which have been given the typically HT-esque name 'ME-02T', feature a magnesium body that has been pared down to the minimum, including hollow sections milled through the leading and trailing edges of the body. Not surprisingly, a titanium axle has been utilized, along with HT's arrangement of a bushing at the inboard end and a small sealed bearing sitting outboard of the body at the opposite end.

Ultra-thin and still lightThe 308 gram AE03T pedals shown above may not be quite as light as the ME-02T prototypes, but they still weigh less than nearly anything else on the market. There's more to them than just their low weight, though, with a body height of only 11mm. Internally, HT uses dual bushings combined with a small external sealed bearing at the end of the titanium axle. There is also a chromoly axle option that puts the AE03T pedals at a still svelte 352 grams for the set.

goddam. was gonna say C-4 was an awesome name...but it already exists..... hmm, what about 5emt-x,... ??? or TNT......hmm geax tyres use that one already................... goddamn....... "Kaboom" components yes thats the one!!!!!!

I wish Bell would make a new logo/badge/whatever you want to call it. But really dope helmets. I'm personally not a fan of bucket helmets but they look super clean and comfy. Was really interested by Maxxis' 650B tires. I'm not convinced by the 27.5" hype but I like that they're giving people access to good tires.

OffRoad renamed themselfs Proflex, bought Noleen, then were bought out by K2, then renamed themselves K2 Bike and then K2 was bought out along with Brass Eagle (paintball) and a host of other sporting brands by one parent company, that then as I recall went into receivership themselves a few years ago. I haven't paid attention to who owns what as far as the divisions go now but the paintball lines are still around.

I'm starting to be slightly irritated by all those companies spending thousands (and probably more likely hundreds of thousands) in adapting existing tyres/wheels/frames for the stupid 27.5 wheel "standard" instead of spending them on new products ...

It's rubbish, it doesn't bring anything new, it's supposed to be better than both the 26 and 29" wheels according to the manufacturers, yet why didn't anybody thought of it 10 years back when they announced the 26" would reign over mountain biking?

I'm fed up with this and tired of seeing magazines and website doing all that promotion ...

No offence PB, you're doing your job, but I just had it. And the "slightly" I used might actually be understated. Why can't we go back to good old 26", 3x9 drivetrains that worked brilliantly and that still do? My bikes are not going to see any of that in the near future ...

It's not like they are taking away our other options though. More choice just means better tools for different situations. I for one am interested in the 27.5 wheel size. I live in Arizona where it's extremely rocky, but I still want longer travel. 29er bikes do not, and will not, give me the travel and geometry I want. Sure they roll over the square edges a lot better than a 26in, but I'm not willing to accept the trade offs. Now a 160mm travel 650B bike sounds like it would fit my request perfectly. That does not mean that I am going to be forced to change from my 26in wheels, but now I will have the option to pick what works best for me. I don't see this as an issue.

While I know everyone on pinkbike hates new standards and I will get about a million neg props for this but:How many of you on pinkbike still run Rigid fixed gear bikes with 1 inch steerers and non oversize bars and seatposts with QR axles both ends with skinny 1.8 inch tyres on either end.The answers is very few; new standards are there to improve cycling and most (if not all) of the pink bike members will use them and be grateful for them.If you do however use all of the above on all your bikes, then I apologise for taking up your time reading this. Now I know wheel size takes that debate to the next level but, if it makes my bike better I am all for it.While I do not like 29inch bikes I am open to the 27.5 inch concept and would like to give one a go.

Also, 10 years ago, 29inch wheels would be so flexy it would be a useless concept in the same way 200mm travel would have been stupid 15 years ago.

And it's not like the manufacturers are stopping development of 26" products. It IS possible to work on both at the same time! It's not like bike companies stopped making road bikes when mountain bikes came out!

Pluto, you dont have to change anything that you like using, that is the beauty of the bicycle. You must be frustrated because you feel rutted or something?. 27.5 wasnt driven by the manufacturers, it was cottage brewed (Kirk Pacenti), then rider adopted. The reason its taking off is because riders like it, its retrofittable to many 26" frames, and the manufacturers are not going to get caught out again like many of them did waiting out the 29er revolution. There is nothing wrong with more wheel size choices. If we all followed your lead, we would be on single speed as multi cog and multi chainring drivetrains would be too much to consider. ;-)

Don't get me wrong philneuve, I'm not against innovation. I do like intelligent ideas. Straps had limits that clips solved. Suspension evolved mainly from experience gained in the MX and rally fields, so it was just a matter of time before it got on out bikes. Same goes with the brakes ... And QR ? well obviously not good enough ... if you had offered a 20mm front hub+fork to a pro DH rider from 15 years ago, he would have jumped on it.

I have sampled a 27.5 and a 29" bike, shortly yes, but long enough for me to say I don't need them nor want them. Didn't like how the 29" one felt (down to personnal taste I guess), and didn't see any difference between my 26s and the 27.5... The latter was presented to me like THE new thing of the century. Yeah right.

I can see why people prefer 29ers over 26ers even though I don't like it, but why the middle size? Difference is so narrow that most of us/you will never see the difference! People will get lost, shops will NEVER have enough stocks to have parts for 26, 27.5 and 29" wheels/tires/frames/components.

The only argument I see at the moment is that they had to find something new, so people would buy them "coz it's fancy". Yes like your grandpa saying all the time "t'was better before, son", yet that's how I understand it.

And you must admit, the press has been pretty much repeating what the brands' advertising brochures say...

Anyway that's kind of a pointless argument. You won't ever convince me to believe 27.5 is usefull and has any future (according to me, still), and I probably won't be able to convince you it's a stupid and useless wheel size.

@Plourte... manufacturers cater their products to meet demand among a MAJORITY of riders... and you are not part of any majority. You're part of a minority. All the classic gravity-based mountain biking diciplines (so slopestyle, 4X, DS, DH, DJ, FR) combined are a mere (at best) 1% of the bicycle marketplace. So these new 650B bikes aren't being developed for those areas. If anything, they're taking away market share from 29ers and most won't see that as a bad thing. I sure don't, and I own several 29ers. You seem to complain about a great many things, and like very little. You were bitching about the new Thomson post not having internal cable routing yesterday, and harping on the X-Fusion vengence forks before that. You're one loud mouthed nutbar and really, the companies who are behind 650B don't need your business anyway.

@deeeight yes I often complain at different things, but I'll also compliment things I find interesting, new, different. Like the new XFusion inverted prototype, I'd love to have one to test and maybe even to own!

As for the post, I NEVER said I wanted internal routing (too few frames would take it ... starting with mines ), but routing down to the base of the post (don't know how you call it, just bellow the seat when it's fully in, like the KS Lev or the GDs). And I don't know if that is easily doable on their post, just pointing it out. And I will definitely have one of these dropper post on one of my bikes, should compliment the stems and seat clamps quite well.

As for the XFusion fork, their Vengeance is like a RS Domain, just much lighter (good point!). Which is a veeeeery basic fork, without any compression tune, and it is really lacking. And that is what I said, the Vengeance R is rubbish on its own, but get the HLR version and you have something "more than decent" to quote myself ...

Anything else? And you're right, the companies behind the 650B business will not have me as a customer.

Last thing: "manufacturers cater their products to meet demand among a MAJORITY of riders" errrrrmmm no, I don't think so. I am definitely NOT the majority (lucky you! hehe), but the vaste majority of riders ride wallmart-category bikes and definitely do not need 27.5" wheels. And I believe the road market is coming next in number of bikes sold. XC should be coming after, yes.

Deeeight with all the respect, there is no demand for another wheel size just as there was no major demand for dropper post. It was a creative and ambitious MINORITY that demands and makes garage versions of such stuff. fkn majority would never come up with a fkn 27.5 wheel size or fkn 15mm axle, so how on earth can they demandit?! There was the Niner company, fkn Gary Fisher ugly sht, completely available, somehow majority did no give a sht about 29ers until someone decided, lets shovel it down their asses and throats.

This DH650B bike in the link below is going to change how people approach World Cup racing, and events like the Red Bull Rampage. Logan Binggeli will be competing at the Rampage on this bike. STAY TUNED!!

They used 26" wheels because they were the only wide tire option in the US when guys started racing down Mount Tam. They came off of beach cruisers. Its not like engineers did any analysis in those days. Bikes were cobbled together out of spares. Schwinn frames, beach cruiser wheels, Motorcycle bars and brake levers. Touring was never popular in the US. In Europe, 650b was the go to size for rough terrain riding, and 700c was for smoother roads. If touring bikes were readily available in the US, 650b would have been the likely popular wheel size.

I think the true reason for 650b is how easy it is for manufactures to modify existing frames to 650b they just need to add a little bit of clearance and they got a whole new market to take a bite off! , if it is soooooooooo gooooooood why did it take this much before they have decided on changing wheel size?(economy sucks, so everybody is looking for a quick buck!).

Gary Fisher, Joe Breeze, Tom Ritchey and other pioneers of mountain biking DID want to use other wheel sizes and did try and find suitable tires in 650B and 700C but none were widely or easily available to them, in 1970s california. 26" was chosen not because it was in any way the best tire for off-road riding, but simply the because it was quick and easy to go with it.

And there damn well was a demand in the past few years... its high time the delusional folks on here woke up to reality that DH bikes may have in the past driven suspension technology, but lighter bikes built with alternative materials, tubeless tires, index shifting, better wheels, better tire compounds, and more... that's all because of cross country trail riding. And the same goes with 29ers and 650Bs. 29ers alone already account for more total worldwide sales than all gravity-oriented forms of mountain bikes combined. All the stuff the children on here think is the be-all / end-all of the bicycle world. Chump change to the people who actually run bike stores and to the actual majority of riders who buy bikes. You want to continue living in the past. Terrific. Stay out of the way of those of us who want to embrace the future.

Deeeight, Well said. Walk into most shops in this country and the bike that is most likely missing is a DH bike. Of the 12 shops here in Eagle county Colorado maybe 2 have DH bikes for sale and that's when they sell their rentals. What many of you don't understand is the greatest thing about 650b is that you dont notice much difference while riding it compaired to your 26" bike. The reality sets in Once you ride all the wheel sizes side by side then the winner is obvious. Us Trail Riders control the market we make up Over 80% of all Mountain bikes sold over $1000.00 dollars. 650b Will Out Sell All Other Wheel Sizes in less than 5 years. You Will see many manufactures eliminate 26 or 29" wheeled bikes from their line up. Some already are. I also believe DH will switch to 650b and someday you will all wonder why somebody didn't do it sooner.

"coming 2015, 24 inch wheeled bikes with 13 inches of travel. Yes we tried in in the early 2000's but now we have the suspension tech to make it work well." My prediction...like fashion, everything old is new again, at least when you are told that by the establishment. The fickle tastes of the industry is becoming a real turn off from the sport. 'Newfangled nonsense' is what my grand dad would say. I waiting to see a GP moto-style double calipered/rotored front brake on a downhill rig.

When things don't work well in this industry. It's not quickly forgotten and I think that is a good thing. My first Mt bike was a 1992 Trek 830 Antilope hardtail. I have fond memories,but I'd take my current trail bike with 150mm of travel, disk Brakes, tubeless carbon wheels, dropper post, 2x10 drivetrain, and 5 less pounds to haul around without a second thought.
For me Hardtails died the day I rode an Intense Tracer. That was over 10 years ago.
The Bike industry is moving on. Evolve or Die!

deeeight - the problem isn't the wheel size, or better stuff. Because all of that game isn't about it, as long as you believe they do it for you, and that's good for you, then you are just deluding yourself. They do it for their wallets, they don't give a damn which size is better for you, they don't give a fk about you, they want you to want new stuff, to stop liking stuff you enjoy.

The mentality of more is better, exclusively more choice is better, is the mentality of "Greed is good" And heh I look into the future, I realize that all I am buying as used now is most probably gonna fit my bike but there's less and less of such stuff. It gets hard already to buy a used fork that fits my frame. I welcome you to a visualization of max 5 years forward when you will want to buy something use to save money and nothing will fkng fit!

Future for f*cks sake - maybe you will loose your job? - are you sure about your real life, offline offbike F U T U R E when everyone loans money - your money from your account! - to buy stupid shit they don't need but they are teased by companies to buy it. You might want a cheap used Reba RLC, 15mm axle, tapered steerer, to replace one you just broke - sorry only 1.25 straight with 20mm axle on ebay!!!

I'm all for innovation. But it's plain silly to pretend that most "innovation" isn't really change for the sake of driving sales. Yes, there are legitimate improvements occurring, such as dropper posts. MAYBE every five years or so enough things change that it's really worth getting a new bike from a performance standpoint alone. But you just can't look past the reality that these companies need to sell products, and so they have to drive change just so consumers feel a need to "upgrade." It doesn't mean there's never an upgrade. It's just not near as significant as they'd have you believe.

If innovation were truly driving the changes in wheel size, then we wouldn't see the industry try to sell EVERYONE on 29er, (when 27.5 WAS an option) and then after converting everyone to 29er, come out and say 27.5 is the latest greatest. 27.5 isn't new this year. If innovation were driving the changes in wheel size, we'd be seeing real innovation, like companies who stand up and say, for example, that it doesn't make sense for people of different sizes to ride the exact same bikes but with a longer or shorter frame. If they were really trying to serve us, they'd admit that it really only makes sense that many of the parts on the bike would vary in size, not just the frame. The stem, the handlebars, the crank arms, the seatpost, the pedals, and the wheels.

True innovation would mean that I, at 6' 3", could buy a Trek Session that in all aspects fits me in direct proportion to how Aaron Gwin's bike fits him perfectly. Wheels and all, with no loss of strength or anything. Now THAT would be something.

Everyone complains about how innovation drives sales. Of course it does. Why does it bother you people so much? The bike industry knows that bike enthusiasts LOVE to drop money on new gear. And you people on PB are no exception. We love our gear. We love to spend money on it, whether you believe it or not. Face it: YOU spend a LOT more on your bike than the average person out there. And as long as you keep spending, the bike industry will stay alive. And I for one, am glad about that.

Nothing personal but to make an interpretation of your argument smike: greed is good

Breaking the bike is also good - you will spend money for a new part. More broken bikes, more alive is the industry. Breaking the hand on trail is good as well, the worse the better - it gives job for the rescue team, hospital personel gets job, hospital gets money to run itself, maybe if enough people would break themselves in Whistler some homeless guy could get a job as a ganitor. Then pharmaceutical company gets money for painkillers and ti screws, plates and other stuff. More people getting cancer is good as well as it moves the research faster, so maybe when I get it I will have a higher chance to live

"Innovate or die" a motto of a bike company ready to shoot anyone using horst link without paying royalty... that is a brake for innovation for other manufacturers that maybe might have done FSR bike better than Spec?

I am on my way to buy a 29er, i have dropper post, 1x10, 15mm Fox, but enough is enough 27.5 fk... just like Giant and their 1.25 steerer. Please someone who rides 10speed that it is so much better than 9sp. But it's not enough, the 11 speed dick is on the way to our mouths and asses, they even managed to fk up that, you don't want to buy our front mechs and shifters? then swallow that instead, take it deep - give me a 11-38 9sp cassette and then after 2 years comparison of sales numbers on 9, 10 and 11 speed drivetrains.

So many people will trash their current new bikes for the fake promise of better performing 27.5/29'. Thousands of people do not demand durable bikes and components because of the upgrade rate they are tricked into, being offered constant innovations. And that waste is praised as ''the future''?

@ SMIKE We're not complaining that innovation drives sales. We're simply noting that many things seen as innovation really aren't, and they exist to drive sales and are marketed as innovation. Nobody is complaining about legitimate improvements. We're simply saying that there is no way bikes are improving at the rate the industry wants you to think they are. It's fine, except that I think people who get sucked in too deep spend a lot of time, energy, and money focused on materials rather than on the experiences that really count. Getting sucked into that vortex of always wanting more, newer, better actually leads to misery. It's way bigger than the bike industry. Most developed nations are driven by consumption: The idea that having more/better will make us happy. It's not true. The more you feed the beast, the bigger the belly gets.

That said, I still enjoy reading about the newest stuff on Pinkbike. I've just learning not to let a desire for it eat up all my time and money. I may spend more on bikes than the average person, but that's a faulty comparison. They spend more than me on whatever their hobby is. I drive old cars, have no cable, make my own lunch every day, etc. And in the last five years I haven't bought a single significant bike part at less than a 35% discount usually more like 40% or 50%. I absolutely could not afford to do it any other way. And there are a lot of riders who ride older, cheaper bikes than me, and they have just as much fun and most of them ride better than I do!

I'm not saying we should buy into it either. I'm just saying "stop complaining about it" because it's not going to change. Without consumerism, there will be no innovation, and vice versa. The last time I bought a bike was in 2009. And it was a used bike! To some people, that would be considered quite recent. But I intend to keep it for a few years yet. The point is, be happy that manufacturers keep putting stuff out like this. And be happy that lots of people are willing to buy them. Doesn't mean you have to be one of them!

Why do you think they always push the "this is the best ever" marketing on everything, even very minor upgrades? I'm not denying that some innovations really changed the biking world for the best... but a lot of the stuff coming out today isn't worth our time/money as far as im concerned.

Smike I agree to a point, but if you think about it that's it not going to change, it surely won't change isn't it? A small change for good is always good, this is how it happens, we don't need any revolution, good never comes in revolutions. I am not complaining I am trying to point out (also to myself) that it's just ain't good what happens, and we should not be blinded by "innovation" as there is very little of such substance to all of it. All of that deserves constant smacking in the face, the alternative is callousness. We have enough of it already with stupid clothing, colour options, most of us are what we would consider pozership 10 years ago - fkn express yourself by buying colourful components...

I'm guilty as well! That shit got to me as well! I really wish I could want less, they say if you can imagine it, you can do it, but how to imagine less...

Look, those of you who seem to think that 650B was "an option" that is now being pushed when for the past three-four years 29ers were being pushed instead are ignoring the scale involved of the option. We had FIVE tire manufacturers making batches of 10,000 tires at a time, when the worldwide market of mountain bike sales requires MILLIONS of tires each year. We had TWO suspension fork makers combining to produce tens of thousands of forks when hundreds of thousands would be needed for a wider industry push to happen. 29ers didn't get their major push until a major suspension brand name (rockshox) started supporting the wheel format. Likewise it took Rockshox (and Fox) to make 650B models to generate the buzz in the industry needed. 50,000 tires and two suspension fork makers is enough to support boutique brands and a handful of mid-size brands, plus all the folks doing conversions. Its not enough to go after any real market share though. But 2013.... now we're talking tire production in hundreds of thousands from over a dozen tire makers. And suspension forks from EVERY major brand of suspension. And frames from every major forward thinking brand around. The big 3 brands are either not saying anything negative (Trek and Giant) about it, because they're already quietly developing stuff, or whining that its no improvement (Specialized) because they're too heavily invested in selling 29ers. Specialized for years said they'd never do a 29er, and now they have a very 29er heavy XC/Trail bike lineup. Giant was even later to 29ers and now they're among their best selling models. But they've never been anti-innovation. Trek tried developing a 29er DH bike and couldn't make it work, but now the tweener size gives them a chance to do something and they probably will make it work for them.

OK, just to give you guys a different perspective: I am a graphic designer, by trade. I make a living by making things look good. My job is for people to look at a product and think it is the BEST, and that they should choose that product over all the other ones out there. Companies hire me to help sell their products. If YOU came out with a new product, would you not do the same? What is a realistic alternative? Release a product saying "Well, here's a new product we have. Try it out. It may or not be all that great - you decide"?

@sumskillz, It isn't revolving fashion. In Europe, 650b was the best option for rougher roads, and loaded touring. They had numerous sizes to choose from, and that is what the builders and market settled on. In the current MTB world, the the 26" size was used because it was available readily. There were many 26" wheel rims and tires for use, and tire manufacturers were able to apply more aggressive treads to current casings. The cost to produce was low, and sales were good. There was no need to change as there was little money in racing and advertising. In recent years there has been more money in racing, and performance advantages = better race results. People think they need what the pros use, but they don't. The performance of 26" wheels has been eclipsed in XC with 29" wheels. They just work better. In the mid travel market, Enduro racing is taking off, and 650b works better than either 26 or 29. This is why you see it on 140-160mm bikes. If you are racing, it gives you and advantage, and people buy what the pros use. For a race team to use 650b on its race bikes, and not use it on the production models doesn't make sense.

Its no different than steel being replaced with aluminum, then carbon. The weight went down, strength went up, and people thought they needed what the pros use. It is possible to make a steel bike as light and strong as a carbon one, but it would cost more than the carbon one.

Ploutre: you clearly haven't ridden a 27.5/650B bike have you... They are vastly better then 29" bikes in all but the roughest terrain (but they can have more travel so...) and they're still greatly manuverable like a 26" bike. The rims seem to hold up better then the current crop of 29" rims and they don't feel nearly as slugish as 29" wheels when you try to get them up to speed. Personaly when the Norco Range 650B comes out I'll be giving it a very strong look. If people were as short-sighted as you were we'd all still be riding 40-50lb. rigid, steel bikes with index shifters... There have been some stupid attempts at "innovation" over the years, 650B isn't one of them...

@Smike You're right, we can be grateful for the early adopters who test all the trends so the legit stuff can trickle down. My wife is a graphic designer, so I know exactly what you're talking about there too. I don't know if there's a safe way around consumerism without collapsing society as we know it, but I'm not convinced it's the optimal way to live.

@deeeight, I'm not saying 650b was an option to the consumer, but it was an option for the industry to push it, just like they did 29. Just seems like a pretty quick turnaround for something so significant as wheel size.

Joelrider, you really have no clue do you? Mondraker is nothing like it. That astro has a concentric bb link, while the mondraker is more similat to the glory, pivot, sunday suspension w a floating shock. Looks don't mean anything, as all the above even feel differently from one another.

Can someone please tell joelrider to stop telling use the astro is a summum when it is clearly very different, being made from a different material, with a differnt pivot, different rear triangle and different linkage. Just because someone tells you mondraker are manufactured by astro doesnt mean that frame is. Think ceaser rojo might have a thing or two to say if it was.

Will the Bell Super fit people with big head similar to XLV? The current crop is fine for circumference, just not deep enough, and we all know it aint no fun when you can get your head in there properly.

About the Bell helmets... did anyone forgot to paint the inside of the segment helmet?!? since the foam have gaps :S anyone forgot?! and the SUPER helmet.... man.... it looks mighty like a POC... copy and paste?!

the da bomb SS frame looks pretty slick, but would be properly tempting if it wasn't for the sick colour, sh*te graphics and ugly as hell front mech mount. Think I'll stick to the Slayer SS when it comes out next year, unless this is dirt cheap and I can just re-spray it

Would anyone really put a front mech on a SS frame? even if you were using it for trials, 9 speed rear would do the job without that nasty attachment sticking out like that.

Remember not so long back having a conversation on here a while back about certain taiwanese companies ability to make quality product. Hope that astro frame proves the point, just because a company has an extensive range from hi to lo that are re branded round the world, it doesn't mean its not quality.
Seems not many people get that large engineering companies make product for others to specification as well as thier own.

Astro is a catalogue bike company... Many manufacturers who don't come up with their own frame designs can go to astro and "buy" what they want and rebadge it as their own. Think "wellgo" and "HT" pedals...

Some of the Azonic frames are Astro. Many manufacturers use Astro. DaBomb is the house brand of one of the catalog factories as well. I have owned several DaBombs and while not light, they are solid and perform really well. Just think if you buy a DaBomb frame you can afford a great set of carbon wheels rather than hanging average wheels off a super exoensive frame. Its the reciprocating weight that really mattes.

You've got a tough job Mike, so far I have seen at least 3 "We will try to get to it" comments on this thread alone. I would want to spend hours in each spot. I'm envious of your job, but I am not envious of the need to keep all us fussy/demanding people happy.