Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam for re-attack after violent road rage attack?

o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds of
attack
o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under the
seat
o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be non-obvious
"Videocamera"

My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the street.

Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being attacked,
call the police"?
USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray & drive
(unless blocked

My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could have
held pointing
at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist hitting
the window.

Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can be a
LONG time).

I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...

Picture a normal wet UK day.
Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
Bridge to
the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus DIY.

Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
trying to overtake.
The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
bridge-road to
the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the road is
single-lane
V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete footings.

This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road breaks
into 2 lanes
forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn twice as I
corrected the car.

Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way ahead.
Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and jerking the car
around.

The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me near him.
Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with no turnoff.
Nowhere to go.

I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
Freedom. Not.

Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His steering is
frenzied,
rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr old by
me terrified.

This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because /that/
gives me a gap
behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
distance to stop).
With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have space to
reverse,
with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to attack. He
speeds off.

Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all about.
No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown lane).

Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota pickup
sits by him.

Attack #3 began:
At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can create.

He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left open,
races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise this is it.

Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream back up
the road
but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other lane.
Blocked.

Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
contact,
or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was worse.
He
immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly rocking
the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break. Each time it
held.

How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
hitting the
top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up in its
frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and shattering. Had he aimed
nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed punches, he'd have been through.

Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then moved
to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He never
tired,
he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped in the
air
kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it repeatedly.
The
glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated &
power
hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.

I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his licence
down.
Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.

Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted later.
Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered to be a
witness.
I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said he'd
call
the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.

Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down from
30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because I have to.
I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine between L5 & Sacrum,
degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints, damage to joints & disks,
and
nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over what is
a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many other drivers
too.

He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the outside
of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft of road,
it is
a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short speed-drop/re-accelerate.

So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all about.
I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend myself.

The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I know. They
were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in Runcorn Town.
So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out for him.

So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.

I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the road.
Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you need only a
few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.

Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him apart.
In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
That is not by choice, but by law.

My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the street.

The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon, I will
visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is probably 300+.

The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help, help,
call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A). Someone must do
one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to either ward-off or get help.

Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the area.
The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then headaches.

Advertisements

dorothy.bradbury wrote:
> Q: Who sells a mini few-second digital *tiny* handheld videocamera?
>
> o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds
> of attack
> o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under
> the seat
> o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be
> non-obvious "Videocamera"
>
> My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the
> street.
>
> Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being
> attacked, call the police"?
> USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray &
> drive (unless blocked
>
> My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could
> have held pointing
> at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist
> hitting the window.
>
> Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can
> be a LONG time).
>
>
> I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...
>
> Picture a normal wet UK day.
> Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
> Bridge to
> the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus
> DIY.
>
> Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
> trying to overtake.
> The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
> bridge-road to
> the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the
> road is single-lane
> V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete
> footings.
>
> This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road
> breaks into 2 lanes
> forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn
> twice as I corrected the car.
>
> Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
> The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way
> ahead. Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and
> jerking the car around.
>
> Attack #1 of 3 began:
> He repeatedly did partial emergency stops & lane changes, trying to
> force me to hit him.
> Slowing up to below 10mph (stalled out in 5th), he then accelerated
> hard away allowing
> me to recover some separation from traffic (13.5 tonne non-articulated
> truck) behind.
>
> The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
> No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me
> near him. Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with
> no turnoff. Nowhere to go.
>
> I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
> Freedom. Not.
>
> Attack #2 began:
> 100yds on, he suddenly does an emergency stop. I do emergency stop,
> but traffic behind keeps moving (13.5 tonne doesn't stop in wet).
>
> Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His
> steering is frenzied,
> rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr
> old by me terrified.
>
> This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because
> /that/ gives me a gap
> behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
> distance to stop).
> With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have
> space to reverse,
> with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to
> attack. He speeds off.
>
> Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all
> about. No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown
> lane).
>
> Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
> The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota
> pickup sits by him.
>
> Attack #3 began:
> At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
> I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can
> create.
>
> He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left
> open, races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise
> this is it.
>
> Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream
> back up the road
> but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other
> lane. Blocked.
>
> Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
> contact,
> or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was
> worse. He
> immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly
> rocking the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break.
> Each time it held.
>
> How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
> hitting the
> top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up
> in its frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and
> shattering. Had he aimed nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed
> punches, he'd have been through.
>
> Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then
> moved
> to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He
> never tired,
> he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped
> in the air
> kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it
> repeatedly. The
> glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated
> & power
> hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.
>
>
> His wet shoes, wet road, wet car & rain deflected a lot of the blows,
> thankfully.
> Suddenly, he ran off, got back in his car & sped away.
>
> I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his
> licence down.
> Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.
>
> Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted
> later. Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered
> to be a witness.
> I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said
> he'd call
> the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.
>
> Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
> We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down
> from 30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because
> I have to. I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine
> between L5 & Sacrum, degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints,
> damage to joints & disks, and
> nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over
> what is a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many
> other drivers too.
>
> He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the
> outside
> of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft
> of road, it is
> a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short
> speed-drop/re-accelerate.
>
> So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all
> about. I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend
> myself.
>
>
> The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I
> know. They were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in
> Runcorn Town.
> So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out
> for him.
>
> So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.
>
> I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the
> road. Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you
> need only a
> few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.
>
>
> Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him
> apart.
> In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
> That is not by choice, but by law.
>
> My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the
> street.
>
> The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon,
> I will visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is
> probably 300+.
>
> The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help,
> help, call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A).
> Someone must do one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to
> either ward-off or get help.
>
>
> Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the
> area. The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then
> headaches.
>
> Next Moss Side in the UK is the Drug/Violence shithole of
> Runcorn/Halton/Widnes,
> what used to be fields of corn is now somewhat way off-field of
> humanity.

Advertisements

Interesting read, Dorothy. Sorry about your bad spine, but at least
you have one; your government, and therefore the people as a whole,
is spineless. You don't need a video camera - you need a government
"of the people, for the people", which would allow you to have a Smith
& Wesson in your car for self protection! We all know the crime rate
in England has skyrocketed since they took your guns, don't we?!

On Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:43:46 +0100, "dorothy.bradbury"
<> wrote:
>Q: Who sells a mini few-second digital *tiny* handheld videocamera?
>
>o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds of
>attack
>o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under the
>seat
>o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be non-obvious
>"Videocamera"
>
>My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the street.
>
>Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being attacked,
>call the police"?
>USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray & drive
>(unless blocked
>
>My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could have
>held pointing
>at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist hitting
>the window.
>
>Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can be a
>LONG time).
>
>
>I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...
>
>Picture a normal wet UK day.
>Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
>Bridge to
>the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus DIY.
>
>Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
>trying to overtake.
>The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
>bridge-road to
>the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the road is
>single-lane
>V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete footings.
>
>This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road breaks
>into 2 lanes
>forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn twice as I
>corrected the car.
>
>Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
>The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way ahead.
>Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and jerking the car
>around.
>
>Attack #1 of 3 began:
>He repeatedly did partial emergency stops & lane changes, trying to force me
>to hit him.
>Slowing up to below 10mph (stalled out in 5th), he then accelerated hard
>away allowing
>me to recover some separation from traffic (13.5 tonne non-articulated
>truck) behind.
>
>The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
>No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me near him.
>Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with no turnoff.
>Nowhere to go.
>
>I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
>Freedom. Not.
>
>Attack #2 began:
>100yds on, he suddenly does an emergency stop. I do emergency stop,
>but traffic behind keeps moving (13.5 tonne doesn't stop in wet).
>
>Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His steering is
>frenzied,
>rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr old by
>me terrified.
>
>This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because /that/
>gives me a gap
>behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
>distance to stop).
>With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have space to
>reverse,
>with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to attack. He
>speeds off.
>
>Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all about.
>No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown lane).
>
>Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
>The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota pickup
>sits by him.
>
>Attack #3 began:
>At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
>I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can create.
>
>He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left open,
>races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise this is it.
>
>Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream back up
>the road
>but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other lane.
>Blocked.
>
>Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
>contact,
>or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was worse.
>He
>immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly rocking
>the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break. Each time it
>held.
>
>How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
>hitting the
>top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up in its
>frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and shattering. Had he aimed
>nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed punches, he'd have been through.
>
>Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then moved
>to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He never
>tired,
>he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped in the
>air
>kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it repeatedly.
>The
>glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated &
>power
>hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.
>
>
>His wet shoes, wet road, wet car & rain deflected a lot of the blows,
>thankfully.
>Suddenly, he ran off, got back in his car & sped away.
>
>I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his licence
>down.
>Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.
>
>Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted later.
>Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered to be a
>witness.
>I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said he'd
>call
>the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.
>
>Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
>We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down from
>30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because I have to.
>I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine between L5 & Sacrum,
>degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints, damage to joints & disks,
>and
>nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over what is
>a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many other drivers
>too.
>
>He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the outside
>of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft of road,
>it is
>a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short speed-drop/re-accelerate.
>
>So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all about.
>I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend myself.
>
>
>The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I know. They
>were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in Runcorn Town.
>So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out for him.
>
>So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.
>
>I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the road.
>Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you need only a
>few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.
>
>
>Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him apart.
>In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
>That is not by choice, but by law.
>
>My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the street.
>
>The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon, I will
>visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is probably 300+.
>
>The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help, help,
>call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A). Someone must do
>one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to either ward-off or get help.
>
>
>Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the area.
>The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then headaches.
>
>Next Moss Side in the UK is the Drug/Violence shithole of
>Runcorn/Halton/Widnes,
>what used to be fields of corn is now somewhat way off-field of humanity.

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

Thanks for the replies.

Re protection - UK law requires you to be victim first, and/or use
reasonable force.
Intruder who is shot by UK farmer, gets legal aid to sue the farmer. Manure
as settlement?
The risk is then, whether anything of defence gets used on the defender.

He settled for a wing mirror, so I guess had he got through the window he
would have
punched me a few times and that's it - can't see how his frantic energy
could have lasted.
Fortunately he wasn't carrying anything, made the TV filmed attacks look
unfrenzied.

In <BB3DE79B.FA70%> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
George Kerby <> wrote:
>Here in Texas, I would recommend a 12 gauge pump with an 18" barrel and full
>magnum 00 buckshot. THAT would take care of your problem. Since you were
>fearful that your life was in danger (you were - weren't you?), it would be
>justifiable homicide. Don't know about the laws in The UK, though...

It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.

--
Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per
<http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm> <http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/>]

In <> on Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:42:13
GMT, Wayne Smith <> wrote:
>Interesting read, Dorothy. Sorry about your bad spine, but at least
>you have one; your government, and therefore the people as a whole,
>is spineless. You don't need a video camera - you need a government
>"of the people, for the people", which would allow you to have a Smith
>& Wesson in your car for self protection! We all know the crime rate
>in England has skyrocketed since they took your guns, don't we?!

Guest

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam for re-attackafter violent road rage attack?

just kill the bastard and we'll pay johnny cochran for you

"dorothy.bradbury" schreef:
> Q: Who sells a mini few-second digital *tiny* handheld videocamera?
>
> o Small, compact, but records enough seconds to record a few seconds of
> attack
> o Held at the parking brake area at the window, easily dropped under the
> seat
> o impossible for an attacker to get, and small enough to be non-obvious
> "Videocamera"
>
> My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road, or on the street.
>
> Could do with a car panic system that yells "help, help, I'm being attacked,
> call the police"?
> USA people can wait for the window to go, and use a pepper spray & drive
> (unless blocked
>
> My error was not getting to my "2.99ukp special" camera which I could have
> held pointing
> at the window from the parking brake and got a photo of him & fist hitting
> the window.
>
> Are those SpyCams video for say 10secs (enough, believe me 10secs can be a
> LONG time).
>
> I'll share why, since it - and the need - can happen to anyone...
>
> Picture a normal wet UK day.
> Travelling on cruise-control 40mph down a sliproad from Runcorn-Widnes
> Bridge to
> the 2-lane 40mph Widnes-Clearway leading up past Widnes B&Q & Focus DIY.
>
> Green/black Golf 16V GTI sped down the sliproad, until 1 foot from me,
> trying to overtake.
> The slip-road drops 150yds down from the bridge-road, goes under the
> bridge-road to
> the Widnes-Clearway for a total of 300yds. He had 100yds to go, the road is
> single-lane
> V-cutting banked by kerbing/armco & suspension-bridge concrete footings.
>
> This delay of 100yds proved too much: he forced past before the road breaks
> into 2 lanes
> forcing my left front to jump up onto the kerb. I piped the horn twice as I
> corrected the car.
>
> Cutting me up, he thankfully sped off.
> The Clearway as completely empty, I resumed 40mph & he was some way ahead.
> Only now he started jumping up & down inside the car, and jerking the car
> around.
>
> Attack #1 of 3 began:
> He repeatedly did partial emergency stops & lane changes, trying to force me
> to hit him.
> Slowing up to below 10mph (stalled out in 5th), he then accelerated hard
> away allowing
> me to recover some separation from traffic (13.5 tonne non-articulated
> truck) behind.
>
> The Clearway in front was *completely* clear into the distance.
> No-one would overtake me, but they acted like "gravity" keeping me near him.
> Clearway has no breakdown lane, armco shielded kerbs with no turnoff.
> Nowhere to go.
>
> I dropped to 8mph, he had gotten too far ahead, so suddenly sped off.
> Freedom. Not.
>
> Attack #2 began:
> 100yds on, he suddenly does an emergency stop. I do emergency stop,
> but traffic behind keeps moving (13.5 tonne doesn't stop in wet).
>
> Same again, his jumping up & down is shaking his car around. His steering is
> frenzied,
> rapid acceleration & deceleration. Myself calm, but terrified, 70+yr old by
> me terrified.
>
> This time I let the gap close to him and actually stop - because /that/
> gives me a gap
> behind me, so I *can* stop (lorry & traffic can see me stopped & has
> distance to stop).
> With me stopped, he has a choice - reverse to ram me (and I have space to
> reverse,
> with reverse selected & lights lit), or leave. He must reverse to attack. He
> speeds off.
>
> Rapidly, he is 1/2 mile away, and I crawl at 20mph. What was it all about.
> No-one would pass, I can't stop (Clearway, wet, no breakdown lane).
>
> Round the corner are traffic lights, a blind corner. They are red.
> The Golf is sat on the left, a "lifted americanised" red 4x4 toyota pickup
> sits by him.
>
> Attack #3 began:
> At 50-60 car lengths round the blind corner, I see lights red and him.
> I immediately slow sharply - since time is something I need and can create.
>
> He jumps out of the car, in white rage, screaming, with his door left open,
> races up the road towards me. I lock the brakes, and realise this is it.
>
> Lock doors all round, hazards on, I floor it in reverse and scream back up
> the road
> but have a 13.5 tonne truck behind me and several cars in the other lane.
> Blocked.
>
> Stopped, he reaches me. I stay sat looking downwards and make no eye
> contact,
> or noise or anything. You've seen road rage on television, this was worse.
> He
> immediately banged on the window, and then punched at it repeatedly rocking
> the car. Each time I closed my eyes waiting for it to break. Each time it
> held.
>
> How I don't know, I sit far back partly behind the B-pillar so he was
> hitting the
> top corner which has thick rubber door seals. The window was fully up in its
> frame and seal, so preventing the glass flexing and shattering. Had he aimed
> nearer the middle with clenched fist aimed punches, he'd have been through.
>
> Arms waving, screaming, raging, he yanked at my door handle. Then moved
> to the rear door handle. Then kicking & punching the car body. He never
> tired,
> he never stopped, he raged at an incredible pace & frenzy. He jumped in the
> air
> kicking the door, then went for the wing mirror stamping on it repeatedly.
> The
> glass shattered first, then the shell was ripped off, then the heated &
> power
> hub snapped downwards, despite his repeated frenzy and screaming.
>
> His wet shoes, wet road, wet car & rain deflected a lot of the blows,
> thankfully.
> Suddenly, he ran off, got back in his car & sped away.
>
> I got out to inspect the damage and pick up pieces, and take his licence
> down.
> Every lorry & car sat throughout the attack, just sat stunned.
>
> Moved on, into B&Q, rang the police. Told to go home & be contacted later.
> Then miraculously, the big lifted red 4x4 found me and offered to be a
> witness.
> I guess he was the only one who could find me, the truck driver said he'd
> call
> the police up the road and block it if the guy came back again.
>
> Thinking back the same car & driver raged at me in Runcorn.
> We have "red slow-down raised stripe-bars" on the road. I slowed down from
> 30mph to 26-27mph & immediately re-accelerated to 30mph because I have to.
> I have massive spinal injuries from a cyst in my spine between L5 & Sacrum,
> degenerative facet-joints, lipping facet-joints, damage to joints & disks,
> and
> nerve compression. Life is painful muscle-spasm or pain. Going over what is
> a rough 'rumble strip' is not comfortable for me, and many other drivers
> too.
>
> He raged at why I had to slow down, banging his hand down on the outside
> of his car and hurling his car at me. The strips last for about 4ft of road,
> it is
> a quick harsh speed-control measure, a very short speed-drop/re-accelerate.
>
> So I guess he wanted revenge for that. I don't know what it was all about.
> I remained calm throughout all, but I'm not able to defend myself.
>
> The police haven't yet contacted me, nor witness(es) as far as I know. They
> were too busy yesterday and today had 2 violent attacks in Runcorn Town.
> So Monday they get my full written statement & are on the look out for him.
>
> So nothing done as yet, surely licence plate = address on computers.
>
> I thought I'd share it, because it begs a need - for anyone on the road.
> Not for attacks #1 & #2, but for attacks like #3. Where you need only a
> few seconds video of an attacker, especially had he broken through.
>
> Truck & 4x4 driver both said they would have got out and torn him apart.
> In the UK the victim can not respond, until proven to be a victim.
> That is not by choice, but by law.
>
> My fear obviously, is he comes back either on the road or in the street.
>
> The UK police will orbit the planet if no visit by Monday afternoon, I will
> visit them. A heated, motorised, painted door mirror is probably 300+.
>
> The other device I could do with is a panic alarm, which yells "help, help,
> call police, I am being attacked" at preferably 130dB(A). Someone must do
> one, not an alarm, but one that sounds alarm to either ward-off or get help.
>
> Spine didn't like that, you tense & brace a lot, which wrenches the area.
> The usual dog of first muscle-spasm, then nerve-pain, then headaches.
>
> Next Moss Side in the UK is the Drug/Violence shithole of
> Runcorn/Halton/Widnes,
> what used to be fields of corn is now somewhat way off-field of humanity.
> --
> Dorothy Bradbury
> www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan (Ebay)
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/dorothy.bradbury/panaflo.htm (Free 1st-Class
> Shipping)

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

On 7/18/03 7:59 PM, in article IJ0Sa.3104$,
"John Navas" <> wrote:
> [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <BB3DE79B.FA70%> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
> George Kerby <> wrote:
>
>> Here in Texas, I would recommend a 12 gauge pump with an 18" barrel and full
>> magnum 00 buckshot. THAT would take care of your problem. Since you were
>> fearful that your life was in danger (you were - weren't you?), it would be
>> justifiable homicide. Don't know about the laws in The UK, though...
>
> It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
> with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.
Oh Yeah, I should know you're an EXPERT on the law and Texas.
FYI:

Houston attorney David J. Russo was cleared by a grand jury Monday in the
shooting death of a Sugar Land man who punched out a window of Russo's sport
utility vehicle during a road -rage incident.

Russo, 32, shot Marcus Shane Peacock about 7 p.m. April 17 in the 2100 block
of Richmond at Shepherd. Police said Peacock, 38, had cut Russo off in
traffic, and both vehicles stopped.

After Peacock broke the driver's side window of the SUV, Russo fired four or
five shots at him. No charges were filed against Russo.

Copyright notice:
All materials in this archive are copyrighted by Houston Chronicle
Publishing Company Division, Hearst Newspapers Partnership, L.P., or its
news and feature syndicates and wire services. No materials may be directly
or indirectly published, posted to Internet and intranet distribution
channels, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed
in any medium. Neither these materials nor any portion thereof may be stored
in a computer except for personal and non-commercial use.

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

On 7/18/03 8:34 PM, in article -b.net, "David
Dyer-Bennet" <> wrote:
> John Navas <> writes:
>
>> [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>>
>> In <> on Fri, 18 Jul 2003 23:42:13
>> GMT, Wayne Smith <> wrote:
>>
>>> Interesting read, Dorothy. Sorry about your bad spine, but at least
>>> you have one; your government, and therefore the people as a whole,
>>> is spineless. You don't need a video camera - you need a government
>>> "of the people, for the people", which would allow you to have a Smith
>>> & Wesson in your car for self protection! We all know the crime rate
>>> in England has skyrocketed since they took your guns, don't we?!
>>
>> Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
>>
>> Homicide Suicide Unintentional
>>
>> USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42 (1999)
>> Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15 (1997)
>> Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -
>> Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -
>> England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)
>> Japan 0.04 (1998) 0.04 (1995) <0.01 (1997)
>
> Which is completely irrelevant and misses the point. The assertion
> you are pretending to respond to is that there was an increase in
> crime *in England* since "they took your guns" (which was a fairly
> gradual process over almost 70 years, so it's hard to say where to
> draw the line really). Comparisons between countries in roughly the
> present do not in any way disprove the assertion.
>
> The numbers were considerably different between the US and England,
> for example, *before* England got all crazy about gun control (and we
> got all crazy, but less so, about gun control). Ditto the US and
> Japan. Those differences between countries have remained relatively
> stable despite various attempts to change them in one country or
> another.
Don't waste your time with this idiot, David.
You will NEVER convince a gun-hater that they are evil.
When you disarm the people the people will not have any rights.
Since we have issued concealed carry permits the murder rate in Texas has
decreased by 40%+. I am not saying that is a DIRECT cause and effect but
I'll take what I can get. I wish it was NON concealed permits. In other
words like the old "Saturday Night" skit with the camera recording people
flashing their armour when being prompted by the "Show Us Your Gun" sign.

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

Sorry for this thread going off topic, my fault, but...

MarkH wrote...
> You don't say how much you can afford, if price is not too
> much of a problem there is a Nokia cellphone that can do photos
> and video. This could be a very handy device to have on hand.

Q: Can it store the video, or must it be sent to another "videophone"?

I wasn't aware they did video, but that might be ideal.
Storage is important, however transmit is also great because that allows the
moving & duplication of evidence quickly away from the scene. Will
investigate.

Charlie D wrote...
<snip> re Epson camera.

I have a "still" camera, but I need one without flash.
Flash into the face of an attacker is not going to help, plus somewhat minor
in the situation it is technically illegal to discharge a flash gun in a car
(UK)

o Thanks for the replies
o NRA, down-boy, keep on topic for the group

3 areas to investigate, phones, "spycam" & perhaps recent digital cameras
since they say they do video. It will come down to an easily-found 1-touch
video re reaction time.

The second baseball bat attack on Age Concern charity shop on Sat a.m., so
Police too busy to call again. Those old nighties must be in demand, or
balls.
--
Dorothy Bradbury

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

On 7/19/03 11:38 AM, in article mueSa.3213$,
"John Navas" <> wrote:
> [POSTED TO rec.photo.digital - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <BB3ECA63.FB8A%> on 19 Jul 2003 15:13:58 GMT,
> George Kerby <> wrote:
>
>> On 7/18/03 7:59 PM, in article IJ0Sa.3104$,
>> "John Navas" <> wrote:
>>
>>> In <BB3DE79B.FA70%> on 18 Jul 2003 23:06:23 GMT,
>>> George Kerby <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Here in Texas, I would recommend a 12 gauge pump with an 18" barrel and
>>>> full
>>>> magnum 00 buckshot. THAT would take care of your problem. Since you were
>>>> fearful that your life was in danger (you were - weren't you?), it would be
>>>> justifiable homicide. Don't know about the laws in The UK, though...
>>>
>>> It would probably just get you in more trouble, either with the attacker or
>>> with the authorities, even in Texas. Really bad idea.
>
>> After Peacock broke the driver's side window of the SUV, Russo fired four or
>> five shots at him. No charges were filed against Russo.
>
> And had Russo managed to hit an innocent bystander, an all too likely outcome,
> he's probably be in the slammer (and emotionally devastated). Not a smart
> risk to take.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

Wrong answer.

Here in Texas we don't pray n' spray like those ragheads in Iraq and we
don't hold a piece at arms length and upside down like the brothers in the
movies. We carefully aim and S-Q-U-E-E-E-Z-Z-Z-E the round into the
offending perp's chest.

In addition, the shotgun that I suggested is a perfect defense weapon for
that sort of work. It is VERY effective at short ranges and will not cause
serious injury beyond a few yards.

However, you most likely cannot appreciate the differences among various
firearms. A "gun" is a "gun" to your sort. Here, our kids are taught to
respect and not fear weapons. My dad gave me my first .410 shotgun when I
was ten years of age and given copious instructions about the safety and
operation of this tool. My Dad and I had a lot of great times together
hunting.

These days, kids are just told that "Guns Are Bad". Therefore, the
rebellious children (that we all once were) will use them as toys of power
and status symbols, rather than serious and deadly objects of respect.

Except in large cities, like Houston mentioned here, most everyone has a
"gunrack" in their pickup and there is usually a "varmit getter" on it. It
is useful for *ALL* types of varmits and deters this type of behavior when
displayed.

When a guy is trying to break out your window in the middle of a street to
do you bodily harm, I'm sure you're going to regret defending yourself
later, if you chose to do so with a short range defensive weapon.

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocamforre-attack after violent road rage attack?

No I didn't mean it like that re NRA *smile*.

Thanks, but ridiculously those sprays aren't legal in the UK.

I think a pepper spray should be legal, and the criteria was clear:
o Until he broke the glass it is in the criminal damage area
---- video, photo, record, phone police & let them listen in
o Once the glass broke the event defines the intent
---- pepper spray gets you dis-orientation time
---- which in the /right/ situation is ideal

However, I was blocked in front - so nowhere to go.
Two sets of un-sync'd traffic lights ahead, high UK traffic density.
His car a Golf GTI 16V, mine 11yrs old, risk is high speed multiple
fatality.

Clearway with traffic like gravity pushing you forward to him stopped,
no turn-offs, barriers either side, no breakdown lane. Nice eco design

The solutions:
o In a few weeks colleagues at GM USA are sorting out an industrial
car-PC they use, with small video cameras. Just needs 12V, rugged.

o For personal use, the VGA pen-cam should be ok re witnesses around.
---- Provides the video of assault, I can drop it under the seat then
---- Provides the "act or media frenzy" to get action.

There are some other pen-cams, so I'll look at those too.
GM colleague suggested the professional wireless pen-cam too.

"Black-box cameras & panic systems" are very much on the agenda.
--
Dorothy Bradbury

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

"dorothy.bradbury" <> wrote in message
news:nJ%Ra.983$...
> Thanks for the replies.
>
> Re protection - UK law requires you to be victim first, and/or use
> reasonable force.
> Intruder who is shot by UK farmer, gets legal aid to sue the farmer.
Manure
> as settlement?
> The risk is then, whether anything of defence gets used on the defender.
>
I see someone else has mentioned a pepper spray - and as you point out, they
are not legal in the UK.

I know of a lady who was attacked (presumably for her handbag) and during
the scuffle, she sprayed the guy in the face with her hairspray. Perhaps you
could keep a can of the ickiest cheapest hairspray you can find (usually
those are the sort that sting the eyes) in the car (nuder the seat or out of
the sun but somewhere ready to hand would be good, as sunlight and
pressurised cans never mix, obviously !) ? It might not have the exact same
effect as pepper spray but I've got the stuff in my eyes accidently and
bugger me, it stops you in your tracks.

I also know a contact lens wearer who was victimised in the same way you
were - but she had repeated road rage attacks over a period of time, and the
sod always got away scot free and the police seemed uninterested in catching
him. In the end she soaked him in the face with 10-10 contact lens soaking
solution - this is stuff designed to disinfect contact lenses, then to be
neutralised by a second step rinsing solution - and it contains hydrogen
perioxide. I used to use it and I stopped doing so because if you forget to
neutralise, you get hydrogen perioxide in your eye and I'm here to tell you
that hurts like a total bastard, but it doesn't do you any lasting damage
(other than convince you not to buy the poxy stuff ever again that is).

It comes in a squeeze bottle and she grasped it firmly in both hands and let
it go into his phizz. The guy in question fell back onto the floor clutching
his eyes and she was never bothered by him again.

"I just happened to have it lying here Officer - it was a panic reaction."

You know what I mean ?

Another thing I happen to have which I have thought might be useful in such
a situation is a can of canned air. My ex husband gave it to me for cleaning
the dust of fiddly electrical stuff. It seems pretty pressurised and makes a
hell of a concentrated stream when it comes out - that in yer eye and you'd
think twice about doing anything else to the bearer, I imagine. And it's
just air - the lasting damage is probably minimal (thus making you less
sue-able).

I used to have one of those personal panic alarms - the ones that make a
very high pitched noise. Apparently the best way to use them is to shove 'em
right in the ear'ole of your assailant, or as near as you can - then let 'em
fly. You'll be expecting it and will brace yourself, but they will wonder
what the blue **** has happened and will probably be deaf in that ear and
somewhat pained for the next half hour, which is often off putting when
you're trying to attack someone.

I hope some of these ideas help. As others have said, it would have been
nice to run the bugger down, but you'd have been writing this from the
slammer if you had, no doubt. :-(

Re: Any one do a mini-few-sec digital handheld videocam forre-attack after violent road rage attack?

Thanks for the comments.

o Yes, hairspray
o Ideal if the window goes through

Small compact versions available.

There were 2 witnesses, lorry behind following me from Runcorn, and the red
raised 4x4 in front similarly who witnessed the attack & criminal damage.
Since
4 lanes of traffic stopped, around 15-30 cars, there could be more.

Forgot to do 3 quick photographs of he cars, and lorry, around the scene
and exact location. There just might be video camera footage available too.

Currently investigating the 8x2.5x6cm Mustek DV3000 handheld videocam.
Easy for a passenger to hold pointed at the window, tiny & discrete.

Ideal would be one with a Video-IN so acting as a DVR, Digital Video
Recorder.
That allows a fixed in-vehicle camera, rather than the PC-type DVR
solutions.
--
Dorothy Bradbury

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