This Is How Money Poisons Our Elections

PHILADELPHIA—In an attempt to learn more about the biggest political donors in America, reporter and documentarian Alexandra Pelosi spent more than a year reaching out to everyone on the top 100 donor list on OpenSecrets.org. The vast majority were not interested in discussing on camera why they give millions of dollars to politicians on a regular basis. Go figure. The ones that did agree to talk to her, however, had some revealing, perplexing, and often stunning things to say.

The only issue? Rich people—and we're talking really rich people—always want to control the message.

"The difference between billionaires and regular people," Pelosi tells me, "Is that a regular person gives an interview and it goes on TV. A billionaire says, 'I want to approve what I say. Run it past me before you put it on TV.' I'm getting a lot of that, so I have to do a lot of ducking around trees."

Of course, there aren't many trees where we're meeting. We aren't just in Philadelphia during the Democratic National Convention, we're at the Ritz Carlton. This is ground zero for American political money at this very moment, and Pelosi has seen a few of her subjects stalking the polished hallways and high-ceiling atriums. She isn't totally unfamiliar with the crowd—Pelosi is, after all, the daughter of House Minority Leader Nancy. But in coming here for a reception honoring the Democratic Women Caucus, she has wandered into the lion's den.

"I'm just trying to make it to air," she says. "I don't want any cease-and-desists."

Michael LoccisanoGetty Images

She just needs to get to this Monday, August 1st. That's when her documentary, Meet the Donors, premieres on HBO. It's a crash course in campaign finance, a guide to how a small group of ultra-rich patrons have formed what she calls "the circuit" that high-level politicians must trace if they ever want to grace the marble halls of Washington. We discussed that and much more—including the amazingly weird reasons that make these people want to give away so much money.

One of the first things the film tackles is that Barack Obama was the first candidate to reject public financing since it was put in place after Watergate. Do you think people—particularly liberals—are aware of that?

He was the billion-dollar candidate. It took a billion dollars. People love to say that Obama was this movement, and they felt this tingle go up their spine or whatever. But a billion dollars certainly helped. That's what people forget.

And he jacked up the price of our elections. Trump and Hillary are going to at least have to raise a billion each. And then the projections for the presidency are anywhere between $3 and $5 billion. And where's all that money going? To the stupid ads about how awful the other side is and how great they are. And the only real winners are the TV networks, right?

I just came from the Wells Fargo Center—the land of milk and honey. The networks are eating this stuff up. They're the big winners in this. They make this into some big WWE reality TV show. All these conventions are doing is introducing—[in her announcer voice] "And in this corner, weighing in at..."

Who's really promoting this whole election? I would say the networks, because they're the ones making all the money from the misleading television ads. And they love this matchup, Trump and Hillary. How many TV ads could you sell if Ben Carson was the nominee? I mean, who cares?

I really believe all the media is doing is focusing on the delegates and people booing, which is a legitimate thing. But the convention is just a show sponsored by these corporations and nobody talks about that. Why are they sponsoring this? Why are they having all these parties? After the convention is over, all the officials go off to corporate-sponsored parties.

I don't think that's true, because Bernie wouldn't have gotten anywhere if he didn't have those 21-dollar donations from all those people. You need money—it's the rocket fuel that gets you off the ground. Without money, you can't even get in the game.

No matter how holy and righteous you are, you're still gonna have to kiss up to the billionaire for the check to get yourself elected to change the laws. Even if you're Bernie Sanders. He had big donors too. I know $27 was the catchphrase, but I could find you some people here—they were big family names—who gave him plenty of money.

They're not dependent on big donors, though. Both of them succeeded in the primary season without courting special interests and big donors.

I think Trump claimed he was going to self-fund and wasn't going to go to the trough, but he's going there. He has to—it's the general election. He doesn't have a billion dollars of his own money to throw at this election. And we're just getting started. It doesn't even really start until next week. This is just the warmup. The big money is about to all come out.

But I think those Wikileaks documents really revealed so much about how the game is played. And they got overshadowed by Debbie Wasserman Schultz. I think the Debbie Wasserman Schultz is sort of like the candy—it's low-hanging fruit. Everyone knows how to go, "Oh, she lost her gavel!" In the grand scheme of democracy, Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigning from her post means nothing.

What does mean something is, scrub through those Wikileaks documents and see those emails back and forth between donors who want to get into the White House, who want to know how much they need to give to sit next to the president. That's where it's all going down.

HBO / Meet the Donors (2016)

One thing I was struck by was how many donors said that they got nothing out of it. One guy said he's "never picked a winner" and another said all he got for his trouble was "the frickin' cat." Were you surprised by that?

So many people didn't make the cut in this movie, because they all said the same thing: "I don't get anything." All I got was old, white men writing million-dollar checks and claiming they got nothing in return. That's their story and they're sticking to it. Of course, these are all the people that agreed to be on camera. I'm sure there are lots of people that shut me down that probably just don't want to talk about how they got this law written to favor their company, or had that legislation adjusted for their own self-interest. No one's going to go on television and say that.

Chris Rock has a bit: If people knew how rich we were, they'd be rioting in the streets. And that's how I feel about this. If people realized how rich and how much access the billionaires have… It's easy to see they have a lot of money and they have a lot of disposable income. But I think if people knew how much money these people really had, if they walked into their house and see how they live. Rich people are not like you and me.

So it's that people don't know, or they're not paying attention?

I think they don't really think about it. This is who your politicians have to kiss up to to get the money to run. This is who both Hillary and Trump are going to have to kiss up to get the money to pay for this campaign. And there's something inherently sick about that. Maybe you could say, well, public financing, but you don't wanna pay for it. You want your tax dollars to pay for that? You don't wanna pay for it.

I'd check the box.

Oh, you do? What a good person you are. You're a better person than I am. The reason I don't give those three dollars on that tax return when they ask you to check the box is because I know that if some guy is giving 10 million dollars, what is my 3 dollars going to do? And then the candidates turn it down. They turn down the public financing, so what do they do with that money, that's what I'd like to know. Trump's gonna turn it down, Hillary's gonna turn it down, what's gonna happen to that money? You just checked the box, they just took 3 dollars from you, Jack Holmes! Where's that money going?

On the prestige and vanity issue—I was fascinated by the guy who's a cardiologist.

I just saw him in the lobby! He has the dog from the Hillary picture*. he's walking around with it. He brought his dog to the convention.

*In the film, the donor—Bruce Charash—shows off a photo of himself and Hillary Clinton holding his dog, Scout.

HBO / Meet the Donors (2016)

He says, "When you look at that picture, you don't know how well I know her. You don't know whether I can get her on the phone." To me it was like, he's a cardiologist. Is he really making power plays like that?

Yes! There are a lot of lonely people on the planet that have a lot of money in their pocket and no place to go on a Friday night. "Heck, let's call up Hillary Clinton and get her over here." Instant party, right? All of a sudden you're a legitimate member of society, you've got friends. It's like there's a circuit. You can buy your way into a good party. Just like you can hire the Rolling Stones to come play in your apartment, you can hire Hillary Clinton to come and give a stump speech and your friends will be impressed—if you have any friends.

Here's the thing. You can buy your way into a club. There is a club of Clintonistas. Bruce Charash is in that club. If you pay a certain amount of money, you can go to the Clinton parties, and Bill and Hillary will know your first name and that will make you feel warm and fuzzy all over. It turns you on, if that's your thing.

[Later]

But I know people who do it for the power and the status. Power isn't real, and it isn't earned. If you act like you have it, suddenly you're leading everyone. Perception is reality.

For me, if I was walking down the street and saw a politician, I'd cross the street and walk the other way intentionally, just to not have to talk to them. But if you wanna talk to Bill and Hillary, for a certain amount of money, they're all yours. They'll be your best friends. I don't know what that price is now that we're in the presidential election, and there's like a hardcore competition of people that want to outbid you to get them in their apartment tonight.

Catsimidis said the same thing, about prestige. He said he wanted "to pee with the big dogs."

Did you like him at Camp David? First of all, I've never been to Camp David, not that I have any right to be there, but I always thought Camp David was one of those sacred places where they negotiate peace treaties and there he is, sitting on the couch eating popcorn with Bill and you're like, How? For the right price, you can get anywhere in America.

HBO / Meet the Donors (2016)

The idea of the circuit is interesting. This nationwide country club of people who are involved. Like the guy you do the interview with in front of his plane in a hangar. He's sort of a party planner for people seeking influence.

Most people don't realize that it is like a game of monopoly. If you want to run for president, you have to go around the board and stop at Park Place and get the million dollar check and keep going and get past go and get to St. Charles Place. People don't realize that.

There is a playbook, it's the FEC records. You go through, who are the big billion-dollar donors. If you wanna run for president in America, you need to go to Chicago and make friends with Pritzker. There's a Republican Pritzker, there's a Democratic Pritzker, there's a liberal Pritzker. You need a Pritzker. There are about a hundred families in America that are funding our democracy and they have full access to our leaders. And it begs the question, is this who our leaders should be spending our time with? Is this who we want influencing their decisions? You cannot make it to Pennsylvania Avenue without pimping yourself to a Pritzker. Period.

The guy in front of the plane—he was a bundler, right? They basically assemble these groups of wealthy people.

They don't care about politics. They just get their friends, like, "I'm having a party, write me a check, I'll write the check for your cancer hospital if you write the check for my Trump fundraiser." There's a lot of horse trading. A lot of rich people have charities, and they want their name on a building or something, so they say, "If you write the check to my hospital, I'll write a check to your candidate." They don't give a hoot about politics. They're just going because their friend asked for the check and it's pennies to these people. It's nothing.

It's now an accepted truth of American politics that it's bought, basically. But at points in this film, it seems like it isn't. One guy gave a bunch of money and then wanted a bill passed that involved using natural gas for tractor trailers. But he lost.

He got outspent by the Koch Brothers.

Right. So is American politics just for sale to the highest bidder?

Absolutely, the highest bidder. If you read the Wikileaks emails, you can see them jockeying for who gets to sit next to Obama: "Well, he gave this much, he gave this much." I did the primer, the elementary school version, and WikiLeaks is the encyclopedia of the quid pro quo. What are they getting? Well, they're getting to sit next to the president at dinner.

But to your point, maybe they don't get what they want. Maybe it's all vanity, maybe Hillary is just toying with these people and making them feel like they're part of the Clinton club, maybe she's just using them, taking their money and is never gonna give them what they want.

Jim Chanos is a big investment guy in New York, a big Democratic donor. And he said there's all that money on both sides, so what your money gets you is a hearing. It doesn't guarantee that you're going to get the result you want, it just means you're in the hearing. That's what your money buys. There's no smoking gun, where if you write a $10 million check to Hillary Clinton, she is going to do everything you tell her to do. You can't prove that. But she'll listen to you. She'll hear you out.

HBO / Meet the Donors (2016)

The most important point of the film is when that guy Morris Pearl says that it's about access. You might not have influence, but you have access. For a couple hundred thousand dollars, you can get into anyone's office and get a hearing. It's true that the money gives no guaranteed outcome. But what it does guarantee is you'll get photos to impress your friends, you'll get to go to the party.

It seems deeply psychological. Catsimidis said that "as a kid from 135th street, having the president know my name was the best moment of my life." It was sort of like this is something he's had in his mind for 50 years.

Do you blame him? If you think about it, God bless him, he can buy his way in. You can't buy yourself into the Harvard Club—you have to go to Harvard. There are more exclusive clubs to join in America. Politics is for anyone who has big enough pockets.

At this point, Pelosi hides her face behind her hand—the closest thing she has to getting behind a tree. She spotted someone from the film on the other side of the room.

I've been trying desperately to avoid this guy all week. Walking into a convention full of billionaire donors was not the smartest play on my part.

The danger passes.

Tom Steyer is one of the boogeymen that conservatives always talk about alongside George Soros. He says in the film that the difference between him and the Koch Brothers is transparency. Does the fact he doesn't hide his money in Super PACs and 501(c)4s vindicate him?

It doesn't make it better, but at least we know the name of the person. Look at how the Koch brothers have been demonized. It's very chic to criticize the Koch Brothers where I live. Here's where I think there's hypocrisy in the media coverage: when the Koch brothers give money they're demonized, and when liberals do it, they're...glorified. Deified. Steyer's point is, "At least I put my name on it and I have a cause and my cause is clean energy" or whatever. Okay, that's...God bless.

The Washington PostGetty Images

Does it seem like Citizens United has changed these people's calculus? Has the spending exploded, has the circuit changed?

Citizens United is red meat. When Hillary says, "We're gonna overturn Citizens United," she says it because it's a great applause line. Even if she did overturn it, there'd still be tons of money in politics. It's not the magic cure-all. There was money in politics before Citizens United and there will be plenty of money in politics if they overturn it. They all love to say that the Citizens United ruling was that turning point where democracy was destroyed by money, but in 2000, John McCain was running on this platform of getting money out of politics.

What it was, though, was a great infomercial. Like, "Hey billionaires, you've got lots of money, you can put it in." Because it was written about, billionaires said, "Hey, I never knew I could give that much," and flocked to the system.

Did you think campaign finance would be a real issue in this election?

Don't you think Bernie put it in there? What he did was he made this ad that people watched on JetBlue [flights], and it made people angry. So he stirred the pot. He let it out, he unleashed this whole beast.

Trump latched onto it.

Worked for him. It probably got him the nomination because he was like "I'm not bought like these guys in the room." That's how he got Jeb.

And it was true. He had donors in the primary, he lied about that, but saying that Jeb and Rubio were beholden to their donors—it's true. I think that resonated with people.

Jeb had so many million-dollar checks because of his name. Like, "Here, you're a Bush, take this." They probably didn't know his position on anything. I talked to this big oil guy in Texas who's on the list. He said, "I don't even know what his position on oil is." The Bushes call and ask for a check, you write a check. It's like a mafia. It's a part of the price of doing business in America. If you're a successful person, you made it somehow. Price of doing business is you gotta kick back.

HBO / Meet the Donors (2016)

More than one person in the film refers to donating as "an investment," which I don't think is a mistake. Haley Barbour says that these special interests and big business give to both sides to "keep government from doing something to them," and they probably incorporate political spending on the balance sheet. Verizon probably has an annual outlay of, "We're spending this money to help write telecommunications law."

Or mergers. All these companies wanna merge, they need the government to approve a merger. Verizon's a great example. Comcast is the sponsor of the whole Democratic Convention. If you wanna be in the television or internet business, all those laws are changing every day, right? You need to be in on that when those laws are being written.

Do you think reform is truly a bipartisan issue?

No, I don't think Republicans buy it for a second. I'm not getting political, but if you asked Nancy Pelosi, the big thing is the DISCLOSE Act. We need to know who's giving the money. Every time it comes, Republicans won't bring that to the floor. The Republicans don't want anything to change because they're winning right now.

There's a ton of attention paid to the presidential contest because the numbers are huge. But isn't it in Congress and at the local level where the money really talks? In a congressional race, the better-funded candidate wins 95 percent of the time because they can drown out the other person.

Millions of dollars are going into these unknown congressional races in the middle of nowhere. Who's writing those checks? Washington? New York? Why? For the balance of power. So that's where it really warps the voice of the people in swing districts. You gotta ask somebody who ran for one of these swing district seats. It's crazy. It's crazy what happened to our democracy.

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