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In NBA 2k14, maybe, but for Hayward, Favors, et al getting the shitt beat out of them night after night is a real experience, and in many ways probably a pretty bad one. Juxtaposing the long-term interests of the org with the daily experience of trying to compete can be a complex issue, but I think Utah's performance under Corbin so far is on the wrong side of the line. Utah is using several guys that they expect to be part of their future; I think they need a little more of a positive vibe and to be competing better than they have/are now. One can also argue that they may be picking up bad habits now.

And on a more practcal level, going 18-64 doesn't guarantee anything, either. The Utah FO did the right thing by turning the squad over to the young guys, but I don't think being a 1-12 punching bag is necessarily the best thing for the org's future. YMMV.

Exactly, plus with their awful start and the fact that they're a bad team, even with a good coach they're likely to finish worst in the NBA.

If I was Utah, I would fire Corbin and hire Lionel Hollins. He's not a perfect coach but he's pretty good and this last go-around with Memphis started in a very similar place to where Utah is right now. I feel like he would be able to take a young team through a losing season and make sure that they got some benefit from it. And he seems like a reasonable candidate to keep coaching if they actually get good or goodish in the future.

Yeah, that's who I want. I think George Karl could improve the Jazz more this year, but I'd rather have Hollins to overhaul their defense.

Yeah, no one's really tackled the crazy Portland start in this thread, as far as I can recall. I gather their schedule's been not that imposing (last I checked that win against San Antonio was the only one that really stood out), but still: 11 and 2?

As for Chicago trades: What could they get from Minnesota for Deng? He could really help that team, couldn't he?

Just want to point out that ESPN's NBARank had Kyrie Irving as a Top 10 player...

Matt Dellavedova was apparently the Cavaliers' starting SG tonight, so it's possible that he could have more help. (Dellavedova did play well, but I'm stunned to discover that he apparently has a roster spot in the NBA.)

Portland is like the Chicago White Sox of the NBA -- seemingly impervious to predictions.

i don't get why it's hard to believe. aldridge is a top 30-ish player. lillard averaged 19 and 6 as a rookie. they added robin lopez, who had a PER of 19 last year. they have batum and matthews, dorell wright and mo williams. that's a really talented cast of players (plus they have cj mccollum, who's currently injured) who are all in/near their primes and average or above both offensively and defensively.

they probably won't end the season making 5 more 3s per game than they allow, but there's a lot to like there.

The big thing is that their core is the same as last year, where they won 33 games. But then, their core was really good last year. Their bench sucked. So the improvements on the margins can help them a lot more than I think I initially appreciated.

I thought the key to the Wiz/Knicks game was the dominance of Gortat on the boards and the shotmaking of Beal and Webster down the stretch. Gortat had 17 rebounds to go along with his 16 points, and 7 of the rebounds were on the offensive glass. I think 5 of the 7 were during the crucial 3rd quarter, when the Wiz took control of the game. Webster scored 17 points on 11 FG attempts. With Ariza being out due to a sore hammy, he's been getting solid minutes and making the most of them.

And Wall is beginning to make his outside shot. If he can do that on a semi-consistent basis, he's going to be really good, since he's probably the fastest player in the league right now.

I think the Wiz are going to make the playoffs. The Nene/Wall dust-up seems to have done some good.

No. But Wall played poorly in a game the Wiz should have won, making several terrible decisions down the stretch, and after the game, Nene suggested Wall get his head out of his posterior. Except he used a shorter, stronger word than "posterior".

Thunder, sitting Westbrook, is leading Utah by 34 in the 3rd.... they nearly double Utah's points.. YIKES, i had mostly thought Corbin was safe given that he's a very organizational guy, but if they keep not just losing, but getting out right killed on most nights, that's hard to justify.

In fairness, Brooklyn is playing without Williams, Kirilenko, and Lopez, as well as Terry, that is 2 of their 4 best guys, if you still see KG or PP as in that mix, and Kirilenko is an important piece, too. Many analysts, including Lowe, made a point of saying that the Nets would be better than the 2013 Lakers were, due to depth. Has not happened, at least not yet.

As to Utah, I watched part of it, but it was not competitive in any way, and even many of OKC's guys looked disinterested. I don't want to be too presumptuous about guessing what is in the heads of Utah's young guys, but I still don't see this performance as being something about which the Utah FO can just say "have patience". There is a difference between "bad young team" and "road kill" and I think Utah should be playing more like the former rather than the latter, no matter how great Wiggins and Parker are. But maybe I am missing something.

I mean there is bad and there is a degree of bad that's just unacceptable, I think Philly's season, assuming they play mostly like this on their way to a 25 to 30 win this season, is a huge positive, but Utah? eeeeek. they really need to make that pick count. I think they're in some trouble here, Enes Kanter is not a high confidence guy to begin with , this sort of season seems like a very bad thing for him. as does for Gordon Hayward whom may feel he wants no more part of this organization.

But even if your bringing a new coach, would you want to do it now? seeing that he might be on his way to winning like 15 game the rest of the way? Would Hollins / Karl really want to mess with their reputation like this?

As for the Nets, look, Livingston is actually playing well right now, and so is Joe Johnson to a degree, it's actually their front court play that seem to be disaster, which is really on KG more than anyone else.

Skipping to college, UNC had a huge win over Louisville today, all the more startling because the Tarheels looked so inept last weekend squeaking past Holy Cross and losing to Belmont.

Even though Marcus Paige scored 32 points, I thought the game ball should go to freshman center Kennedy Meeks. Wow, what a game he had. In 24 minutes, he had 13 points on 5-6 shots from the field, 12 rebounds and 7 assists. Several of the assists were Unseld/Russell/Walton two handed over-the-head, length of the court outlet passes after clearing the boards that led to uncontested layups. Louisville likes to press and Meeks almost single-handedly destroyed Pitino's game plan. He also dominated the glass and fouled out Lousiville star forward Montrezl Harrell. Astonishing performance for a freshman center.

But even if your bringing a new coach, would you want to do it now? seeing that he might be on his way to winning like 15 game the rest of the way?

What exactly is the problem with this? What is the negative effect to starting a guy mid-season? I figure teams don't do it much because they want to make sure they get their guy and there are less people available mid-season. But if you found a guy you wanted and he was available now, what's the downside to hiring him now?

Edit: And even if there is a downside - is it bigger than the downside of letting your team get its ####### teeth kicked in all year with no hope?

If the offer was right, I assume that Hollins would. Hollins had success with a couple of big slowish guys up front, Utah is a good org overall, and if they get nice draft add could be pretty good in a couple of years.

I have no idea if Hollins would want the job, or if Corbin is in trouble, but I think Utah needs to change something.

Agreed with pretty much all the Utah talk. There's a difference between productive learning type losing and just plain sucking, and the Jazz are doing the latter. It doesn't benefit them at all to keep a coach like Corbin who has no idea how to run a defense and isn't using his players the right way on offense either. I deliberately haven't watched many games so far, but from what I have seen, they pretty much just shoot jumpers, which they're not good at. Favors and Kanter need to get more practice in the paint. The way things are going now, they're just going to lose a lot without learning a damned thing. Hollins and Karl would both be fine with me. Even if the team started playing better as soon as they arrived, the 1-14 start is a deep enough hole that I don't think it would really hurt their chances for Wiggins/Parker much, and they might learn a few good habits in the process.

It also made me a little nervous that Hayward didn't agree to a contract extension before the deadline. And a 15 win season sure isn't the best way to convince a free agent to stay.

Thibodeau said how long Rose is out won't be determined until Cole performs the surgery. But two sources close to the process indicated Rose and other decision-makers want his meniscus reattached.

While this is better for Rose's long-term career, it also means a lengthier rehabilitation process of up to six months or more.

That would mean Rose would miss the rest of the regular season.

The surgery is today. But they're planting the seeds already. Hopefully this time they just announce he's done for the year, and if somehow he's ready beforehand, then great. My desire to follow the rest of this season is now gone.

I assume everyone's seen the news on the new NBA.com box score feature? If not, I will try to explain. Now, when you see that LeBron has 10 rebounds (or any other stat) you can click on that stat and see the video highlights of those 10 rebounds (or any other stat). This is amazing. I worry what it will mean for my relationship to my friends and family.

I assume everyone's seen the news on the new NBA.com box score feature? If not, I will try to explain. Now, when you see that LeBron has 10 rebounds (or any other stat) you can click on that stat and see the video highlights of those 10 rebounds (or any other stat). This is amazing. I worry what it will mean for my relationship to my friends and family.

I think what I'm most excited about here is watching all of DeMarcus Cousins' fouls.

I know exactly how you feel. I've never been less excited about an NBA season since I started following the league as a kid. This is only the 2nd time in 25 or so years that I knew my team was going to be bad going into the season, and 1) I was actually wrong about the other time (2004), and 2) I never expected them to be THIS bad.

My interest will return in full force when the lottery and draft roll around in the offseason, but right now that seems like a long, long ways away...

I echo the sympathies above to Bulls fans WRT Rose. I always liked him. He's on a very short list of the most fun players in the league to watch when he's healthy.

I assume everyone's seen the news on the new NBA.com box score feature? If not, I will try to explain. Now, when you see that LeBron has 10 rebounds (or any other stat) you can click on that stat and see the video highlights of those 10 rebounds (or any other stat). This is amazing. I worry what it will mean for my relationship to my friends and family.

Agree that this is amazing.

I think what I'm most excited about here is watching all of DeMarcus Cousins' fouls.

Unfortunately, I think fouls are the one basic stat they won't have initially.

[892] This doesn't make sense to me. If I were a Jazz fan, I would be into all of their games. They may be getting pounded but I would be invested in watching every minute I could of the young guys and making judgments about whether or not I thought they could/would develop and who does/does not deserve to be part of the long-term picture. I got a lot out of some of those dreadful David Lee lead Knicks stretches when the team's sole goal was to clear cap room for LeBron.

Ditto, I don't really see the parallel. There's bad and avoidable, and there's supposed to be good and having your knees hubcapped. The sudden disappearance of expectations and hope really leaves a void.

Then again, I've barely paid attention to the Cubs the past few seasons as they've been very Jazzy.

The Lakers have pretty much nobody under contract for next year other than Kobe. That's what I know about their cap situation. Kobe taking less than he did would have made it easier for them to sign people and I was thinking he might go the Duncan route and take less than market value.

Jeremy Evans is shooting 92% for the Jazz so far, at point some they need to start giving him bigger minutes and see how of much of that he can maintain don't they? The Jazz's talent is a good amount better than record, Marv, Evans, Burke, Biedrins and Rush have all been hurt, they've played one of the toughest schedules in the league and their coach is bad. They could probably have a decent turnaround in the second half to they wanted, although there is incentive for them to keep doing bad, with the hyped draft coming up.

The Lakers have pretty much nobody under contract for next year other than Kobe. That's what I know about their cap situation. Kobe taking less than he did would have made it easier for them to sign people and I was thinking he might go the Duncan route and take less than market value.

This doesn't make sense to me. If I were a Jazz fan, I would be into all of their games. They may be getting pounded but I would be invested in watching every minute I could of the young guys and making judgments about whether or not I thought they could/would develop and who does/does not deserve to be part of the long-term picture.

See, that was what I was hoping to do at the beginning of the season. But like people were talking about last page in their evaluations of Corbin, it doesn't look like the Jazz's current situation is furthering the players development at all. At this time they're just getting pounded with no silver lining to show for it. When (if?) they change coaches and start making some progress, I'll be back to watching games in an instant. Right now it's just plain painful.

Guys like PP and Abbott will get their jollies off of this, but I blame Jim Buss. If the money is being offered, I don't blame Bryant for taking it. Yeah, you can argue he should have said "No, just give me what TD and KG are getting", but I don't see that as useful in any way other than to vent animus against Bryant. That said, Kobe already got his thank-you contract, so the FO should have played this harder with Bryant--see him play again first, see how the wind is blowing in FA, then offered him something in the 10-15 range, assuming he was playing well. My Simmonsian armchair read on the issue is:

1. Buss has gotten word that his fantasy of signing LeBron James is exactly that.
2. It is a reflection of Buss' insecurity. Buss has, actually, not really done that bad of a job running the team so far. The Lakers still have a lot of cap space, the Paul thing f'd him pretty hard, and Phil Jackson, Dwight Howard, and Kobe Bryant are not the easiest guys to deal with. I blame the back end of last year's roster on Kupchak as much as Buss, and the team is doing as well as can be expected this year. But some of the stuff that Buss has done--firing Ronnie Lester, the old scouts, and the equipment manager, the contrarianism with the coaching hires, and now this--indicate to me that he is not really confident in the big office and is worried about perception/criticism more than he should be. Leaders need to be secure, in any endeavor.

Ditto, I don't really see the parallel. There's bad and avoidable, and there's supposed to be good and having your knees hubcapped. The sudden disappearance of expectations and hope really leaves a void.

Agreed. I wasn't saying that the Jazz and Bulls situations were in any way comparable, just that I understand the feeling of not having much interest in this season in general. Our reasons why are indeed very different, of course.

Jeremy Evans is shooting 92% for the Jazz so far, at point some they need to start giving him bigger minutes and see how of much of that he can maintain don't they?

I've been saying this for a few years. And now that the Jazz have such a weak bench, there's really no excuse NOT to give Evans bigger minutes. But Corbin is Corbin, so I don't expect it to happen. He's always seemed to hate Evans for some unknown reason.

I read that Kobe + Nash (the Lakers only commitments for next year, other than cap holds) will take up just enough to allow them to sign one max contract under the cap, then the rest of the team would have to be exceptions and/or minimum guys. If nothing else, it allows the Lebron/Melo speculation to live on.

They can use the stretch on Nash--don't know if that piece included that option. If things get bad enough in NY, I could see Anthony wanting to come here.

What would a team ideally put around Kobe and Melo to make it work? Kobe can probably remain a big focus of the offense but use slightly fewer possessions as he gets older, so Melo's role wouldn't change much. I assume you'd want a spot of shooter at PG who can play perimeter D enough to compensate for Kobe (the Chalmers or Beverly plan). These guys seem to be available later in drafts because they don't have the playmaking skills that teams want out of early PG picks. You'd want a forward who could play beside Melo, can guard both forward spots, space the floor a bit, not demand shots, and rebound when needed. That might be Draymond Green or Dante Cunningham. Those guys could be had with a cap exception, but they're not stars. The center would be the trick because size is always expensive and they'd desperately need rim protection behind those two stars. I could imagine them being a solid team who competes enough to remain relevant, but I don't know how they'd get a center who is good enough defensively to support the rest of their roster given the cash constraints those two would present.

Wolfs beat writer says Derrick Williams trade is close and lists Kings, Jazz, Nets, Knicks as possible destinations. The only trade that really makes sense to me from that bunch is to Sacto for Jason Thompson and Jimmer. I hate selling low, but they need to get something out of the pick they spent on him, and I don't think he's ever going to succeed in Minnesota behind Love.

I assume everyone's seen the news on the new NBA.com box score feature? If not, I will try to explain. Now, when you see that LeBron has 10 rebounds (or any other stat) you can click on that stat and see the video highlights of those 10 rebounds (or any other stat). This is amazing. I worry what it will mean for my relationship to my friends and family.

Where do you see this? The box score doesn't seem clickable for me, other than being able to click on the players' names.

This is weird for Sac but I'm 100% sure they are not done dealing and I think relative value wise it make sense for the Kings to essentially turn 2 2nd rounder into Williams, so if they're playing the Daryl Morey game let's see what happens .

For Min this make sense as a depth move. might have gotten a bit too little but it make sense where they're at. though yeah , Jason Thompson made more sense for them I'd think. then again, Turiaf should be back eventually right?

There's nothing wrong with taking a big money deal but I thought Kobe might take less to help him get the championship that would tie him with Jordan.

If I was a player, I'd only do the discount for a championship thing if the team could point to something specific that it was enabling them to do with a reasonable degree of certainty. I'm not taking less just on spec that they might afford somebody else maybe next summer.

In other words, tell me specifically how this helps get the championship and maybe I'd listen, but otherwise I'm taking the money and rolling the dice.

So the Rockets played like they're completely drunk in the first half then score more in the 4th (38) than the first HALF (32) . I don't get this team, the bench went off and saved the day. (granted. some of the calls were horrendously against the Rockets in the first half, like Tony Allen basically bunched Lin in the head and was given a steal and bucket.)

Denver might beat Dallas 2 strait (in Dallas too!) that's interesting, maybe Brian Shaw turned it around really quickly. would be a great story if he does.

To make things worse for the Bulls, they are in danger of losing to Utah this game... yes... Utah.

The Knicks / Blazer game is basically over after 1 quarter, the Blazers had their garbage time lineup in the start of the *2nd* quarter.

Haven't watched a DEN game this year due to how bad they were in the preseason+early regular season and hearing about Shaw wanting to run the offense through McGee and Faried in the post, but they appear to have righted the ship. Lawson's numbers look AS worthy. Without watching the games, if Shaw has finally gotten through to Lawson to trust how good he is that's huge for the team. As much as I loved the way George Karl's system allowed for a balanced scoring attack and never gave a defense the option to ignore any player, I did think that Lawson (and Gallo) were not being used as much as they could/should.

K.C. Johnson ?@KCJHoop 10h
This is the first regular-season, four-game losing streak of the Tom Thibodeau era.

I said yesterday I didn't think the Bulls could play themselves out of the playoffs. And I still believe that. However, I can now envision a scenario where Thibs' style finally causes him to lose the team and they tailspin into an absolute mess. I give them a little pass on last night, since the Rose news was still fresh, and I don't question any of the players desire or motives (and Deng, for one, is still playing for a contract). But I can see the grind of the regular season and effort that Thibs' system demands starting to grind down the players and start falling on deaf ears. It doesn't help that Hinrich and Teague are absolutely terrible and there's nothing either of them can do to make anyone else on the team better.

It's kinda crazy/sad/disappointing that Rose getting hurt has now taken the Bulls completely out of contention in 3 straight postseasons.

Were locker rooms despondent in his early days of unbelievably bad Bulls teams? Or were they so inured to losing by 2000 or 2001 that they didn't care.

Guys like Eddie Robinson and Eddy Curry never gave a ####. I don't know how Charles Oakley or some of the other veterans might have taken it, but I think they knew they'd suck and that changes the mindset some.

And in a related matter, does Brad Stevens have a freakish ability to teach shooting? Olynyk has made all 17 of his FT attempts, Jordan Crawford is shooting .909 from the line, Bass .895 and Humphries .857. Lee is also shooting .480 and Crawford .400 from 3P land.

I remember how lights out his Butler teams were and am curious if he could transfer that to the NBA. So far, returns look positive.

If I was a player, I'd only do the discount for a championship thing if the team could point to something specific that it was enabling them to do with a reasonable degree of certainty. I'm not taking less just on spec that they might afford somebody else maybe next summer.

In other words, tell me specifically how this helps get the championship and maybe I'd listen, but otherwise I'm taking the money and rolling the dice.

Agreed. I wouldn't expect the Lakers to win a title in the next two years if Kobe had signed for a nickel.

Good analysis of Mbah a Moute on A Wolf Among Wolves today. He and Williams shoot very similar percentages from everywhere on the floor (not good) and can really only finish efficiently at the rim. The difference is that LRMAM shoots about 55% of his shots at the rim and Williams shoots about 30% of his. LRMAM just shoots way less everywhere else on the floor, which is not a bad thing. They obviously acquired him for his defense, so if he can minimize the damage he does offensively, that's great. They obviously lose out on Williams's potential, but I am confident that he was not going to optimize whatever they thought his potential was behind Love.

There are also tax implications. It will make it a lot easier for the Wolves to use the midlevel this offseason without going into the attack because LRMAM makes about $2m next season.

Bradley Beal out at least 2 weeks with a "stress injury" in his right fibula. He had a similar injury last season - same leg, different location - and missed the final 8 games, and couldn't play 5-on-5 until August.

Good analysis of Mbah a Moute on A Wolf Among Wolves today. He and Williams shoot very similar percentages from everywhere on the floor (not good) and can really only finish efficiently at the rim. The difference is that LRMAM shoots about 55% of his shots at the rim and Williams shoots about 30% of his. LRMAM just shoots way less everywhere else on the floor, which is not a bad thing. They obviously acquired him for his defense, so if he can minimize the damage he does offensively, that's great. They obviously lose out on Williams's potential, but I am confident that he was not going to optimize whatever they thought his potential was behind Love.

Even though Williams and Jordan Hill aren't really similar players, they're always linked in my mind because they went to UA, were high lotto picks that put up decent numbers in college but were seen as reaches (or maybe more accurately, not worth their pick slot), and were busts. I guess they're both also kinda tweeners. Hopefully for Williams, he can eventually find his spot like Hill might have.

Probably a lot of Temple and Rice, with Webster playing 3 until Ariza returns. It's terrible timing of course with the team playing well during a tough stretch, and Wall appearing to achieve some balance on passing vs scoring. If this leads to him shooting more it would be a double whammy. Classic Bullets luck.

I love watching Paul George, I am sincerely glad he took a big step forward to make the Pacers legitimate contenders, and I hope he continues to play this well all year.

With that said, talk of him as the MVP reminds me of that Chris Rock joke- "If Bill Gates woke up with Oprah's money, he'd jump out a ####### building." If Lebron averaged 24-6-3 on 47% shooting, we'd think his career had spiraled out of control.

Sometimes...I don't like to talk about LeBron because I feel like we(I) talk about him too much. Other times, I find myself on his bask-ref page at work cackling at the absurdity of his numbers and wonder whether we can ever talk about him enough. Seriously. I literally burst out laughing looking at his page today when I realized that he's at 60/43/78 in his last 47 regular season games. He's just the absolute best and it is amazing watching him at the height of his powers, finding new ways to get better and better and better.

EDIT: It's like how people would always say, imagine if Shaq could hit his free throws. Well, LeBron's %s are kinda like that as long as you also toss in a deadly 3 point stroke.

Sometimes...I don't like to talk about LeBron because I feel like we(I) talk about him too much. Other times, I find myself on his bask-ref page at work cackling at the absurdity of his numbers and wonder whether we can ever talk about him enough. Seriously. I literally burst out laughing looking at his page today when I realized that he's at 60/43/78 in his last 47 regular season games. He's just the absolute best and it is amazing watching him at the height of his powers, finding new ways to get better and better and better.

I sometimes think the equivalent is Barry Bonds' BB reference page in his prime. Unbelievable.