It is unfortunate that you went through life and had a bad experience. But it isn't bad to everyone. Why tread on someone else's life simply because of your own bad experience? If you feel this way, perhaps face those who mistreated you, rather than taking it out on people who have done nothing of the sorts to you. You've mentioned many times, eye for an eye, is how you feel. Don't you think that it would be more productive to face those who have betrayed, mistreated or abused you, rather than dumping it up on people just because life handed you a box of shit? It isn't shit for all of us. But it doesn't give you the right to tread on me, or anyone else who has done no harm to you.

You seem like an angry and vengeful type. You just mentioned in the other thread you were abused in school. I'm truly sorry to hear it, and I can understand why perhaps you have a different view, since most or next to no one here can probably put themselves in your shoes. It does not mean, however, that we lack empathy for YOU. People offer empathy as best they can, even if we cannot understand what you've gone through.

All that most people ask is the same in return, unless there is a good reason to return otherwise.

Even if I had some sort of terminal illness, or ALS, I most certainly wouldn't have the desire to take you or anyone else out with me. I'd just deal with the cards I was dealt with. That's life. Life is precious, it's rare, and I see no reason to take that away from another person. I'm sorry if you can't see it that way, perhaps it is what it is.

Quote:Unlike poolboy, I don't think death is terrible at all, educate yourself on the process and you will see.

You're making a straw man. I didn't say 'death', I said 'PROCESS OF DYING'.

The process of death, as I've stated, is very accurate. It's a terror you will never know until that one time it comes- the quick screams, writhing agony of pain as your body is struggling against shutting down is not a pleasant experience to feel, or witness. There is no romantic way of dying. Millions of people do it, and yet is hardly talked about or shown. So I understand your ignorance (unless, of course, you simply misread the post to make it mean something else).

Nothing in my previous post has changed.

The people I have watched die didn't writhe in pain or have quick screams.

And I was very much talking about the process of dying.

You are not giving our brain enough credit.

Have you ever been in a car accident or some traumatizing situation? Where you and others were hurt and looked to be in incredible pain? Well, their wonderful brains shut that out. The pain is a signal to the brain that something is wrong. The brain then tries to come up with processes and/or actions to stop the issue. The processes are mostly subconscious - you are not aware of the chemicals rushing around your body to initiate blood clotting etc etc. At the same time your brain evaluates what actions could be taken. If none and the pain is severe, guess what? It shuts the pain button off and you go into shock. You feel no pain or anything really, but you function and your brain still initiates countless processes to protect your body from total disaster. The brain is a wonderful thing indeed! The shock wears off only after the danger situation has passed. This happens to a lot of people who are in the process of dying in an unpleasant fashion, the body looks miserable to you, but the mind is "absent".

The jerking and restlessness is from the muscles letting go, the impulses flow through until they are exhausted. This is not due to pain nor is it painful, it is just a physical process.

My husband and I were alone at home when he died, and it was expected. He went through the trouble to try to let me know what was happening while he had the consciousness to do so. We had talked about it beforehand, and he said he would try to let me know how it felt.

And so he did, until he got confused and then went what looked to be comatose. He was not scared, he had no more pain (and no painkillers, although those were standing by just in case). Apparently his kidneys shut down first and he reported a "tugging" in that region. Not pain. However, his body kept shifting at that point - he said it was beyond his control, it just did, and it was not that he was aware of being uncomfortable.

He then got quieter and quieter, and at one point looked at me curiously and I asked him if he was confused and he answered yes. He couldn't focus. Still no pain he managed to say. Then he went to sleep, very peacefully, for some 10 hours.

Then he woke up, looked at me with clarity and said: "I am going to step outside now" and closed his eyes. After that he was comatose (I am no medic but that's what I thought it to be, quiet, sleeping, unresponsive) for some 12 hours. Eventually his breathing became slower and slower until it ceased. A couple of times during that last process he got restless and I said "easy, babe, easy" and he seemed to have heard because he relaxed right away.

My mom was much the same, except she was in a hospital setting and she woke up like 4 minutes before she passed. She made a couple of loud noises to bring me to the bed and just looked me in the eyes. I said: "you can't talk?" I got a flicker in her eyes in return. She had no control over her body it seemed and could not control any movement. There were no voluntary movements. I asked if she was going to go now and her eyes said yes. So I told her not to worry and I would take care of everything the way we discussed and all her muscles relaxed and the light went out of her eyes, for lack of a better way to describe that.

Neither person was in pain, although involuntary body movements may make you think so. It was only the body moving, the mind had disconnected.

That's only an example of two people, dying of kidney failure in Mom's case and cancer in my husband's. It was good that both were communicating about what was happening as long as they could, I understand most people just disconnect without communications.

So you think the same mind that knows to invoke shock during times of stress and injury just sits there and feels incurable pain? I don't think so. You got to give the human organism more credit than that.

And yes, seeing someone die is a bad experience, we are programmed to take this very seriously just the same as we are programmed to respond with kindness when we see the face of a baby. The survival instinct is a very strong instinct and it wants us to avoid death and protect young life. So we run away from death and shower babies with love.

Someone also said something about death being different depending on age. Very true. As you get older, more and more people you know die. There is a growing familiarity with death, and a growing "friendship" with the thought of it. For most people, the younger you are, the more terrifying it is, and the older you get, the less it scares you. Most people who die in old age are at peace with it, or even welcome it. It's just natural for us.

As for the cases of death under horrific circumstances, you are in shock. You think clearly but nothing bothers you, physically or emotionally. I have been there, and it is a most amazing state of mind. Pain and turmoil only sets in after the brain determines that you will live, and by then you are usually under medical care and drugged.

Anyway, the point of this whole post is to not confuse physical reactions with conscious brain processes. A lot of the drugging in hospice is actually for you, the survivor, so you don't witness the muscle contractions etc. that come with the body shutting down. They are hard to watch, every instinct in our body is horrified at it. But - they are not a sign of pain at all.

In case anyone wonders, both people were atheists.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

Thank you all for your replies. This has proven to be really helpful to me (and maybe also to whoever might ask himself the same questions as me). I think my biggest issue was/is that I try to understand a state of being or "not being" that is virtually incomprehensible. How can the mind think about/ understand its own absence? A bit like trying to solve a paradox (although it is not a real paradox of course)... that's what I meant when I said I kept going in circles. For all those who have told me their stories and their experiences: Thank you very much. And although I do not really know you: Sincere condolences if you have lost someone in the past.
As for the "depressive nature" of this post: I'm sure there will be happier ones to come!