This makes me happy, and I hope it is more than just a one day sign so he can retire as a White Sox.

TDog

12-12-2011, 12:02 AM

This makes me happy, and I hope it is more than just a one day sign so he can retire as a White Sox.

Where did the idea of a one-day signing come from? I can't recall anyone ever signing a one-day contract, and I don't know that such a thing is possible in baseball.

I was thinking a couple of days ago that the way Mark Buehrle was talking, he could sign with the Sox when his Marlins contract expires, the way Greg Maddux signed with the Cubs after leaving to establish his Hall of Fame credentials with the Braves. It wasn't that long ago that Buehrle was talking about not wanting to stay around in baseball much longer.

I wonder if this was noticed by Tim McCarver, who used to mention every time he discussed Buehrle that he has expressed a desire to play for the Cardinals someday. I wonder now if McCarver will say Buehrle has said he plans to return to the White Sox in some capacity someday after not signing with the Cardinals as a free agent.

thomas35forever

12-12-2011, 01:11 AM

To steal the final line from Mary Poppins, "don't stay away too long."

MUsoxfan

12-12-2011, 01:30 AM

That story brought a smile to my face

Aesero

12-12-2011, 02:18 AM

Where did the idea of a one-day signing come from? I can't recall anyone ever signing a one-day contract, and I don't know that such a thing is possible in baseball.

It has been done before, and it would be fitting for Buehrle if he decides he's going to retire after his 4 years in Florida.

HaroMaster87

12-12-2011, 03:20 AM

and this is why my man crush on MB will never die...

TommyGavinFloyd

12-12-2011, 04:29 AM

Where did the idea of a one-day signing come from? I can't recall anyone ever signing a one-day contract, and I don't know that such a thing is possible in baseball.

I'm not sure where it started but it happens all the time in all sports now, including baseball. Nomar and Mike Sweeney both have done it recently. Jerry Rice, Mike Modano, Fred Taylor, etc. I think it's actually a one year deal but they just retire on the first day. I know I read that in a Deadspin article about Fred Taylor.

Not to hijack the thread but regarding your sig question, I would say it would be Peavy. It is going to be so strange to see someone other than Mark Buehrle pictch the Sox opener. Personally, I would like to see Danks or Floyd get the nod from Robin (do we need a WSI poll?) but we'll have to wait and see.

As for Mark's return, I'll be waiting with open arms - love Sox #56 forever!

That story brought a smile to my face
Me too! It only reaffirms to me that Mark really wanted to come back to the Sox. I wonder what he might have accepted if Jerry had even bothered to even make an offer.

Mark, you are welcome back here anytime.

thomas35forever

12-12-2011, 12:19 PM

http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/t/the_terminator-11353.jpg
I'll be back.
Just what I was thinking when I read the thread title.

TDog

12-12-2011, 01:19 PM

I'm not sure where it started but it happens all the time in all sports now, including baseball. Nomar and Mike Sweeney both have done it recently. Jerry Rice, Mike Modano, Fred Taylor, etc. I think it's actually a one year deal but they just retire on the first day. I know I read that in a Deadspin article about Fred Taylor.

I can see where someone wouldn't want Mark Buehrle to just come back with a feel-good press conference and sign a ceremonial personal-services contract. That isn't really isn't coming back.

Unless there is a new ceremonial provision in the CBA, the players' union won't let you sign a player contract for less than the duration of the current season. It won't let a player sign a contract in which he agrees to retire before the end of the contract. Mike Sweeney and Nomar Garciapara didn't sign contracts to play, and, in fact, never appeared in any regular season games. I never heard of any of the other people you listed, so they probably had nothing to do with baseball.

You can't sign a contract to play just one more regular-season game without the team being legally obligated to pay you at least the major league minimum for the remainder of the season. Unless it's September, there would be 25-man roster issues.

asindc

12-12-2011, 01:28 PM

I can see where someone wouldn't want Mark Buehrle to just come back with a feel-good press conference and sign a ceremonial personal-services contract. That isn't really isn't coming back.

Unless there is a new ceremonial provision in the CBA, the players' union won't let you sign a player contract for less than the duration of the current season. It won't let a player sign a contract in which he agrees to retire before the end of the contract. Mike Sweeney and Nomar Garciapara didn't sign contracts to play, and, in fact, never appeared in any regular season games. I never heard of any of the other people you listed, so they probably had nothing to do with baseball.

You can't sign a contract to play just one more regular-season game without the team being legally obligated to pay you at least the major league minimum for the remainder of the season. Unless it's September, there would be 25-man roster issues.

Unless I'm mistaken, a player who retires at any time in the middle of a season is not entitled to be paid the remainder of his contract. As far as I know, this is the case in every sport. Otherwise, a less-than-scrupulous player could retire in the first week of the season and still get paid for the full season. That being said, if MB wanted to do what Tim Brown did with the Raiders, which is sign with the team after being cut by Tampa and retire after the first game, during which he receives a hero's send-off, I really don't know how the MLBPA can prevent him from doing so.

LITTLE NELL

12-12-2011, 01:38 PM

Me too! It only reaffirms to me that Mark really wanted to come back to the Sox. I wonder what he might have accepted if Jerry had even bothered to even make an offer.

Mark, you are welcome back here anytime.

I'm still in shock and sick to my stomach that JR did not step in and keep Mark.
This could go down with some of the other big blunders that JR and company have made since they bought the club.

asindc

12-12-2011, 01:54 PM

Me too! It only reaffirms to me that Mark really wanted to come back to the Sox. I wonder what he might have accepted if Jerry had even bothered to even make an offer.

Mark, you are welcome back here anytime.

I read in another thread that the Sox offered 3-30. I don't know if that has been confirmed by any news outlets.

tstrike2000

12-12-2011, 02:03 PM

Hope to see Mark back in the organization one day since he's a class guy.

TDog

12-12-2011, 04:21 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, a player who retires at any time in the middle of a season is not entitled to be paid the remainder of his contract. As far as I know, this is the case in every sport. Otherwise, a less-than-scrupulous player could retire in the first week of the season and still get paid for the full season. That being said, if MB wanted to do what Tim Brown did with the Raiders, which is sign with the team after being cut by Tampa and retire after the first game, during which he receives a hero's send-off, I really don't know how the MLBPA can prevent him from doing so.

Of course, but there can't be any retirement agreement in place in a player contract. If you have a wink-wink agreement in place, trusting the player wouldn't burn the team because the player, after all, is more popular than management and people would be on his side, the contract would have ramifications on your 25-man and possibly 40-man roster.

It's irrelevant anyway. One-day contracts in baseball are nothing but feel-good news conferences. They have nothing to do with the player coming back to the team. Calling them one-day contracts is, at best, misleading.

I would hope that when Mark Buehrle suggests that he will be back someday, it would not be to hold a news conference before retiring or getting his picture taken in a uniform during spring training.

Scottiehaswheels

12-12-2011, 04:46 PM

Maybe he's saying he'll take over for Cooper whenever he eventually retires. That'll make for an interesting dynamic. :D:

Milw

12-13-2011, 12:19 AM

I'm still in shock and sick to my stomach that JR did not step in and keep Mark.
This could go down with some of the other big blunders that JR and company have made since they bought the club.
Objectively speaking, MB is not worth 4/58. He's just not. Maybe four years ago, but not now. I'm happy for him that he got paid, but I think anything beyond 3/30 is crazy.

Given that and the fact that the Sox are a good two or three years away from being serious contenders again makes me think that this will NOT go down as a "blunder" by the Sox. It's a bummer for sure, but as strictly a baseball decision, this was very obviously the right move.

LITTLE NELL

12-13-2011, 06:13 AM

Objectively speaking, MB is not worth 4/58. He's just not. Maybe four years ago, but not now. I'm happy for him that he got paid, but I think anything beyond 3/30 is crazy.

Given that and the fact that the Sox are a good two or three years away from being serious contenders again makes me think that this will NOT go down as a "blunder" by the Sox. It's a bummer for sure, but as strictly a baseball decision, this was very obviously the right move.

I agree that MB is not worth that kind of money but I still think if they wanted to keep Buerhle something could have been worked out.
My thinking is that there was something going on with Buerhle and the club that we don't know about.
I still say its a blunder not signing the most popular Sox player since Nellie Fox.

Milw

12-13-2011, 08:41 AM

I agree that MB is not worth that kind of money but I still think if they wanted to keep Buerhle something could have been worked out.
My thinking is that there was something going on with Buerhle and the club that we don't know about.
I still say its a blunder not signing the most popular Sox player since Nellie Fox.
He's not more popular than Konerko. And certainly, if we're taking the casual fan's opinion into consideration, he's not more popular than Thomas. But yes, he's incredibly popular.

34 Inch Stick

12-13-2011, 08:56 AM

The Sox pay him 14 million a year and all he can talk about is going to the Cardinals. The Marlins pay him 14 million a year and all he can talk about is going to the Sox.

beasly213

12-13-2011, 09:36 AM

I agree that MB is not worth that kind of money but I still think if they wanted to keep Buerhle something could have been worked out.
My thinking is that there was something going on with Buerhle and the club that we don't know about.
I still say its a blunder not signing the most popular Sox player since Nellie Fox.

Buerhle and his agent made it clear they wanted 4 years. There was no way the Sox were going to go 4 years so why insult Buerhle with a 3 year low ball offer?

I think the Sox telling him Congrats and were happy for you getting paid is a better gesture than giving him an offer they know full well he wouldn't take.

Nellie_Fox

12-13-2011, 11:57 PM

The Sox pay him 14 million a year and all he can talk about is going to the Cardinals.What? Sox fans talked about this far more than Buehrle ever did.

Daver

12-14-2011, 12:04 AM

Objectively speaking, MB is not worth 4/58. He's just not. Maybe four years ago, but not now.

A player is worth exactly what he can get in free agency, or he wouldn't get paid that.

TDog

12-14-2011, 12:54 AM

What? Sox fans talked about this far more than Buehrle ever did.

And Tim McCarver.

asindc

12-14-2011, 06:39 AM

Buerhle and his agent made it clear they wanted 4 years. There was no way the Sox were going to go 4 years so why insult Buerhle with a 3 year low ball offer?

I think the Sox telling him Congrats and were happy for you getting paid is a better gesture than giving him an offer they know full well he wouldn't take.

For the record, every team except Fla "insulted" him if offering him three years is an insult.

beasly213

12-14-2011, 08:47 AM

For the record, every team except Fla "insulted" him if offering him three years is an insult.

Not every team would have given him a low ball offer. Not just the years but money was involved in this as well.

The Sox (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't going to give him 4 years and close to 58 mil. So what's the point of offering him something you know full well he will reject?

asindc

12-14-2011, 11:32 AM

Not every team would have given him a low ball offer. Not just the years but money was involved in this as well.

The Sox (or anyone else for that matter) wasn't going to give him 4 years and close to 58 mil. So what's the point of offering him something you know full well he will reject?

For the same reason every other team offered him an offer he ended up rejecting: Just in case no other team offers him that many years and that much money. It wasn't known that any team would give him 4/58 until Fla did. It would be much more egregious to not make an offer at all.

TDog

12-14-2011, 11:54 AM

A player is worth exactly what he can get in free agency, or he wouldn't get paid that.

That is basic economics, isn't it?

Gold is worth what someone will pay for it.

A baseball card is worth what someone will pay for it.

The player on the card is worth what a team will pay for him.

beasly213

12-14-2011, 12:15 PM

For the same reason every other team offered him an offer he ended up rejecting: Just in case no other team offers him that many years and that much money. It wasn't known that any team would give him 4/58 until Fla did. It would be much more egregious to not make an offer at all.

His agent came to the Sox and said "This is what Miami is offering." So the Sox knew what Mark was going to get and knew they couldn't come close to matching it.

34 Inch Stick

12-14-2011, 12:37 PM

What? Sox fans talked about this far more than Buehrle ever did.

Why did Sox fans talk about it?

LITTLE NELL

12-14-2011, 12:43 PM

I had hoped that Buerhle would have resigned with the Sox but then I looked at his record. I know that he gives 200 innings every year but since he went 16-8 in 2005 he is 76-66. One thing JR is not is stupid and any team that gives him 4 years and 58 million is stupid. Based on his averages in the last 6 years he is 12.6 wins and 11 losses. If he goes 50-44 the next four years will the Marlins think that was money well spent?

DSpivack

12-14-2011, 02:53 PM

I had hoped that Buerhle would have resigned with the Sox but then I looked at his record. I know that he gives 200 innings every year but since he went 16-8 in 2005 he is 76-66. One thing JR is not is stupid and any team that gives him 4 years and 58 million is stupid. Based on his averages in the last 6 years he is 12.6 wins and 11 losses. If he goes 50-44 the next four years will the Marlins think that was money well spent?

W-L records for pitchers are pretty meaningless. Four of his last five seasons have been pretty good (2010 being the exception), and as a soft-tossing lefty I don't think he's likely to decline in his mid-30s. I don't think it's a bad deal, at all. Plus, in moving to the NL I think his ERA could fall a bit; I'm reminded of Andy Pettite moving to the Astros.

cards press box

12-14-2011, 02:57 PM

I had hoped that Buerhle would have resigned with the Sox but then I looked at his record. I know that he gives 200 innings every year but since he went 16-8 in 2005 he is 76-66. One thing JR is not is stupid and any team that gives him 4 years and 58 million is stupid. Based on his averages in the last 6 years he is 12.6 wins and 11 losses. If he goes 50-44 the next four years will the Marlins think that was money well spent?

Here's a question: will Mark Buerhle be a member of the Marlins for the full length of the contract? Buerhle no longer is 10/5 player and I don't believe that Marlins gave him a no-trade clause. What if the Marlins are looking to re-tool three years from now and the Sox are contending in the AL? I could easily see Miami dealing him back to the Sox under the right circumstances.

Nellie_Fox

12-14-2011, 03:55 PM

Why did Sox fans talk about it?Speculation because they knew the Cardinals were his team as a kid? My point was that I don't recall Buehrle talking about it much at all, while the post I was responding to implied that he constantly talked about wanting to go to the Cardinals.

DumpJerry

12-14-2011, 04:06 PM

Speculation because they knew the Cardinals were his team as a kid? My point was that I don't recall Buehrle talking about it much at all, while the post I was responding to implied that he constantly talked about wanting to go to the Cardinals.
Once or twice, he was seen wearing a Cardinal's hat during the 2006 postseason when the Cardinals were marching to a World Series title and the Sox had gone fishing.

I think he mentioned in an interview or two over the past five years or so that he would like to spend his twilight years with the Cards.

Yeah, constant chatter from Burls about his dream of wearing Cardinal Red!

Milw

12-14-2011, 04:25 PM

A player is worth exactly what he can get in free agency, or he wouldn't get paid that.
Yes and no. Something's worth is the subjective opinion of the buyer or prospective buyer. If you're willing to pay $50,000 for a car, and I'm only willing to pay $25,000 for the same car, is the car worth $50,000 or is it worth $25,000? The answer, of course, is that it's worth $50,000 to you and $25,000 to me.

So yeah, Buehrle is worth $58 million over four years in the eyes of the Marlins. I happen to concur with the valuation of the White Sox in that he is not worth that.

Brian26

12-14-2011, 07:10 PM

Why did Sox fans talk about it?

Speculation because they knew the Cardinals were his team as a kid? My point was that I don't recall Buehrle talking about it much at all, while the post I was responding to implied that he constantly talked about wanting to go to the Cardinals.

Every year, there's a St. Louis Sports Banquet held during the winter months. Buehrle's been a guest of honor before. He's talked publically at this event about one day, before he retires, playing for the Cardinals. In other years, other speakers have talked about it there (LaRussa, McCarver, etc).

Brian26

12-14-2011, 07:17 PM

So yeah, Buehrle is worth $58 million over four years in the eyes of the Marlins. I happen to concur with the valuation of the White Sox in that he is not worth that.

My completely subjective view is that the Marlins overpaid, while the Sox would have received their $14 million back in ways beyond what Buehrle could provide on the field. Buehrle's contract was worth more to the Sox than any other team.

Frontman

12-14-2011, 07:21 PM

And here I thought he "blew smoke up our rears" for all these years about being a member of the Sox.

So he wants to go make money; then retire. More power to you, MB! See you in 4 (or shorter. Never say goodbye, as you never know where life will take you down the road.)

TDog

12-14-2011, 07:45 PM

My completely subjective view is that the Marlins overpaid, while the Sox would have received their $14 million back in ways beyond what Buehrle could provide on the field. Buehrle's contract was worth more to the Sox than any other team.

I was thinking the same thing. Baseball's free agency/arbitration system determines the worth of baseball players, and the White Sox chose not to pay Mark Buehrle what that system deemed he was worth. However, what he would bring to the White Sox would be more than what he would bring to any other team.

It is unfortunate the way things have worked out.

Viva Medias B's

12-14-2011, 10:46 PM

"Once a member of the White Sox family, forever a member of the White Sox family."

Well, that does not literally apply to every person who has ever been in the White Sox family, but it applies to a lot of longer tenured members. This applies not only to Buehrle but we see it applied to many figures of White Sox past. In spite of how he departed three months ago, I would say that Ozzie Guillen is still a member of the White Sox family.

Frontman

12-14-2011, 11:03 PM

"Once a member of the White Sox family, forever a member of the White Sox family."

Well, that does not literally apply to every person who has ever been in the White Sox family, but it applies to a lot of longer tenured members. This applies not only to Buehrle but we see it applied to many figures of White Sox past. In spite of how he departed three months ago, I would say that Ozzie Guillen is still a member of the White Sox family.

And Frank Thomas, and Black Jack (even if he upsets the Hawkeroo with his blog) and Pudge Fisk. Yeah, yeah; Fisk is known for Boston; but he will always be a welcome member of the White Sox Family in my book.

It's a pretty small family; but its tight knit! ;)

Daver

12-15-2011, 12:05 AM

"Once a member of the White Sox family, forever a member of the White Sox family."

Does this include Jaime Navarro and Jose Paniagua?

Nellie_Fox

12-15-2011, 12:13 AM

Does this include Jaime Navarro and Jose Paniagua?They were the drunken uncle you don't like to talk about.

HomeFish

12-15-2011, 06:49 PM

As long as Jerry Reinsdorf or somebody who thinks like Jerry Reinsdorf is at the helm, I'm sure that many former players will come back as coaches or representatives. A bit of a no-brainer.

MetroPD

12-19-2011, 05:52 PM

" I just think it was just one of those things where previous moves have been made that caused this to come to an end.”

Most telling statement made..... nice job on Dunn & Rios there Kenny.

cheezheadsoxfan

12-19-2011, 06:18 PM

Hearing that from Burls made me feel a little better but then I think of
Opening Day and....:(:

Rikirk

12-27-2011, 08:39 PM

It would be cool if he came back one day, im in ...

palehosepub

12-31-2011, 05:16 PM

Well I will definitely will see Mark pitch either at The Urinal or in Milwaukee, hopefully both. "Mark" you calendars:

Times are Eastern
It is possible Mark could miss both series given the math of a five man rotation. I'm sure Ozzie will want him to go against the Brew Crew, but I would not blame him if he does not send him up against the Cubs.