Last week on EPL Talk some discussion surfaced concerning Ryan Shawcross of Stoke City and his vilification at the hands of Arsenal supporters. Regardless of your personal opinion on Shawcross, through articles and comments, a line was drawn in the sand concerning the disgusting trend of horror tackles on Premier League players, specifically from Arsenal. In recent years, those very supporters have seen two of their own, and now possibly another, suffer horrendous leg breaks.

Just this past weekend another Premier League player, this time Bobby Zamora of Fulham, was stretchered off with a break as Wolves midfielder Karl Henry ‘got stuck in’ in all the wrong ways. This was the same Wolves midfield who booted Newcastle’s Joey Barton around the pitch just a few weeks ago with not even the slightest of repercussions minus a few jabs and jibes from the English media. Of course the question that begs to be asked is what is football doing to stamp out the stamping?

Red cards have been shown this and other weekends, yet the nightmarish tackles continue in ample numbers. How many more Eduardo’s, Aaron Ramsey’s or Bobby Zamora’s will there be before some serious action is taken? And what specifically can be done?

Just Saturday, Arsenal were again the target of a shocking challenge when Bolton’s Paul Robinson went in extremely high and well over the ball on Abou Diaby and likely put the Frenchman out of Arsenal contention for some time. The fact that the ref or linesman allowed this atrocity to go unnoticed and unpunished is almost as shocking as the challenge itself. Not a red, yellow, or even a free kick was awarded for one of the worst challenges this, or any other season.

It’s times and instances like these when the Premier League need to consider retroactive punishment for tackles and challenges that go unnoticed as protection for players’ health and safety – two variables that should be their highest priority. Broken legs destroy careers, a look at a video tape post match doesn’t.

Bolton under Owen Coyle seem to have turned over a new leaf of positive football in recent weeks. Their commitment going forward bares little resemblance to the Bolton of Gary Megson or Sam Allardyce. Yet it remained poignantly obvious that Bolton set out to disrupt Arsenal in all the wrong ways as seen under Kevin Davies (who should have seen red), Gary Cahill (who did see red) and Robinson’s ridiculously high lunge on Diaby.

These horror challenges Premier League fans continue to witness each season again raise the debate of pre match instructions and specific ‘assignments’ certain players undertake against different opponents. The ‘destroyer’ role in football has always been a prevalent position, yet in recent years its relevance due to the injuries and sendings off associated with it begs the question of its purpose.

Let it be known that I understand the physicality of the Premier League is just as much a part of football as boots and the ball. But the singular difference in a game that is so physical is that the myriad of accidents directly resulting from the physicality promote serious and career-threatening incidents. The physicality of tackling has always and will always lead to horrific injuries. At some point it just becomes a numbers game for the quick footed, the slight and the creative types while the British mentality of getting stuck in ruins or derails another career.

So what can be done? It’s up to the discretion of the players on the field, yet those ‘rush of blood to the head tackles’ will always exist in a game where so much is on the line. Until the FA and Premier League get involved by dishing out serious punishment retroactively, it’s unfortunately just a matter of time before one of these atrocious tackles happens again.

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I agree that there should be fines and/or suspensions meted out based on video review of contentious tackles. There is no way to justify that in my mind. Pretty clear to me that the ball was the least of his concerns.

Nobody is saying that this was with intent to harm so in that way it is bad luck. But that is why studs up two-footed lunges are automatic reds. This is a 50-50 ball where Robinson should know that he is arriving at the same time as Diaby. Why is he going to ground? Clearly there is a lot of risk when two players are running straight at each other and one of them decides to go to ground. When players are sizing up tackles their default should be to not go to ground. In Italy and Spain a bad tackle is an automatic card, the EPL refs should worry less about letting the game flow and more about punishing mistimed tackles.

I mean, this IS the 7 PM Sunday Natty Light Moose Lodge League, right? The one where they can barely see the ball, let alone put a boot on it? Naw, it’s the EPL, and these guys are professionals, and a professional defender can pretty easily clear a ball like that without 90% whiffing it and ending up conveniently with his spikes in the exact part of Diaby’s leg that he’s looking at.

This is a laughable case of selective memory. Eight months ago in this same fixture Gallas was lucky not to have snapped Mark Davies’ leg in half with a ridiculously late, malicious tackle. Not only was there no action from the FA, not only was Gallas not sent off, but there wasn’t even a foul called – and Arsenal played on and ended up scoring immediately afterwards!

As a Bolton supporter I resent the implication that Arsenal players aren’t being protected or given fair treatment by referees. It’s a clear case of being able to dish it out but not being able to take it, as the constant complaining, card waving and according of referees demonstrate.

trouble is teams like your thug team with Bolton,Wolves,Blackburn and Stoke do it on a constant level, you don’t even try to play the game, for every one you cite there will be ten against teams like yours, that’s why your stadium remains half empty, that’s why no one remembers any good football coming out of your club

The difference is that Bolton set out to “get stuck in” when theyt play Arsenal. Since that is the intent, there is therefore intent to harm.

No one is saying that you do not have mistimed tackes in football, mistakes can happen especially at such a high pace. BUT, when you have people coming on the feild trying to hurt people (Bolton, Stoke) Its a very different story. Punishment needs to be handed out.

Also lets reason. If you were being fouled constantly by another team and the refs were not doing anything how would you feel? So Bolton foul the heck out of Arsenal constantly and now you come moaning about ONE mis-timed tackle.

I am an Arsenal fan. You are a Bolton fan. Who cares? This isn’t selective memory or selective enforcement. Arsenal players who make dangerous tackles deserve to be punished just as much as Bolton players. That goes for any team that you can mention.

Good hard play is fun to watch for me. Especially also being a fan of the NFL and Rugby. But career ending tackles need to be dealt with, in the same way that post match punishments are handed out in both the NFL and in Rugby. It’s time for this to be stopped.

This comes up every time – the allegation that Arsenal supporters are simply ignoring tackles by their own side. It is an obvious example of the tu quoque fallacy. There is a tendency to interpret pieces here as if they were parts of a club blog, designed to defend the honor of one side or other. It is totally irrelevant though.

The thesis holds independently of whether or not Arsenal players have been guilty of bad tackles (obviously they have). The point of Jesse Chula’s essay is about the FA taking action to do something about them.

And my issue is not with the conclusion made by the post. I’m simply questioning as to whether this is a case of perception turning into reality. My opinion is that this exact tackle, had it been Diaby on Robinson, wouldn’t have gotten the same response, given the reputations of the teams in question.

Selective perception is certainly a fact of the matter, for a couple of reasons. Fans see injuries to their own team more often (simply by virtue of watching more matches) and feel protective towards their own players, so they remember the bad tackles. I am an Arsenal fan, and I can remember the bad tackles against Arsenal players better than I can remember the bad tackles by Arsenal players. I would be surprised if this was false of many fans.

That doesn’t mean that this is “perception turning into reality.” If Diaby had tackled Robinson, perhaps it would have gotten less attention. But again, that is irrelevant to the tackle itself. Whether or not the attention paid to it is a function of Arsenal fans feeling aggrieved about it or Arsenal fans on the internet being more vocal simply does not matter.

At issue is whether the tackle was such that the attention paid to it is *solely* based on Arsenal fans feeling aggrieved. That is, if the tackle was not a bad one on its merits. If it was a bad tackle that was also taken up by a vocal segment of Arsenal fans and others, it would support Chula’s argument in exactly the same way.

I think something needs to be done one way or another. As a new fan, to see such tackles happen with not one repercussion is sickening, regardless if I am an Arsenal fan or not. Post match reviews would help and fines/punishments dished out after the fact would help deter such hard challenges. But with that, you run the risk of hamstringing physical teams and scaring them from playing their brand of football. FIFA and the EPL need to protect the players first and foremost.

Yes, Arsenal players have been guilty in the past and, no doubt, will be again. However the point of the article was to ask for these assaults to be dealt with appropriately and, if necessary, retroactively; no matter which club the perpetrator comes from.

At some point, every player and all clubs commit bad tackles/challenges. The Diaby/Robinson incident was featured because it just happened this weekend.

There are clubs in the Premier League that are more guilty of this style of play than others. I don’t need to name them, but regardless of the club in question, something else needs to be done to protect players’ careers.

It has nothing to do with “an eye for an eye” or anything like that. My objection is to the righteous indignation by Arsenal supporters, as if the league has it in for them or something. Given the incident I was referring to, I feel as if those feelings are somewhat misguided.

Arsenal is probably the quickest and most skilled team in the EPL. When you’re going against defenders like Robinson who have a lot of toughness and strength but almost no natural athletic ability or skill on the ball, inevitably there are going to be clumsier challenges. I wish we had Clichy or Evra or whoever to play fullback for us, but it’s not going to happen.

Given the purchases of somewhat more skilled players like Lee, Petrov, Elmander, Klasnic, Alonso, Holden, etc., I feel like Bolton is making a concerted effort to play better football. Guys like Cahill and Davies may not be your cup of tea but that physical dimension is often the only way teams with no money like BWFC are going to survive in this league.

Robinson is a dirty player, everyone knows this. He’s a Sunday League kinda guy whole revels in the blood and guts side of the game. He’s a slow and angry man and when he comes up against quick, slick and skillful players he will foul them because that’s all he can do without looking stupid! He is a player without conscience who couldn’t care less if he breaks someones leg, much like that Henry fella for Wolves. He cut Rosicky in half one week, bullied poor (sounds strange saying that) Joey Barton and broke Zamora’s ankle/leg (granted he won the ball, but still).
Arsenal player do get roughed up more, you cannot deny that, the stats and injuries are there for everyone to see. The Gunners insistence of playing the beautiful game leaves teams at the lower end of the table with little choice but to disrupt their flow with an aggressive high pressure game.
I find it interesting that people have forgiven Shawcross for his challenge on Ramsey with left the boy with a career threatening injury, yet people still bring up Gallas’ challenge, which left no lasting injury on the “victim”, and crucify him for it.
There needs to be a review board for time when a player is on the sidelines for lengthy spells. The challenge needs to be reviewed and perhaps even the player who was injured should be allowed to, much like if it happened in the streets, press charges.

What do you mean “Legally that’s baseless”? I’m not talking about pressing legal charges, I’m talking about a player who gets injured be able to “press charges” in the same manner a victim of a crime can in the real world, but inside of the FA disciplinary department.

And I don’t want to look up ‘manly horseplay’ right now, I’m at work and who knows what may turn up! :p

Ah sorry i thought you meant through the Criminal/Civil legal system. Though it seems arbitrary that he has to/can ‘press charges’. The punishment cannot be based around the perceived harm in that system Karl Henry would be punished more severely than Robinson even though Robinson’s tackle was ‘worse’.

Yes its been 3 broken legs at Arsenal and very nearly a 4th with Diaby (and possibly might be). Diaby/Eduardo/Ramsey.

I saw the game and it was committed but some of the tackling was OTT. I know Bolton fans dont want to read it but Kevin Davis is a danger to fellow pros. Two bad tackles in the first half and he was so late on the header that he’d have needed a bus to get to the ball – instead, on a yellow he clattered Koscielny. That’s his style of play – he gets fouled a lot but its because he is a niggly dirty sod. Cahill was probably unlucky to be sent off though it was a yellow. Robinson , thats a straight red – I am sorry but if he cant control himself and ends up kicking someone in the shin 2 foot off the ground then he isnt good enough to be a defender and its not safe to let him run around on a football pitch.

I appreciate the fella above who mentioned the Mark Davies/Gallas incident. It was an accident but a hell of a lot lower yet I know a lot of neutrals will say thats a red too so I accept that.

Some clubs foul too much – I’ll name them. Any team managed by Big Sam, Stoke, Birmingham and apparently still Bolton though I thought Bolton played very well and made it a good game. I thought Bolton were moving away from the thuglike football that Sam instituted but clearly still have some way to go.
Karl Henry incidentally needs to realise that beating the crap out of Joey Barton and then breaking a fella’s leg makes him a villain, not a committed hero.

Great point! I don’t see anything happening until a star(Rooney or Gerrard) from the English team get seriously injuried! The public out cry would certainly force the FA and EPL to take a serious look at these tackles!

Intent is irrelevant. Protecting players careers and the product on the field should be the focus. I like physical play, but I would rather see Zamora still playing. I’m also getting tired of watching gruesome tackles, MMA is easier on the stomach.

American football has had to deal with similar issues, and after much debate has made the right decisions regarding player health. The EPL needs to get with the program. No offense to any team intended, but I’d rather watch Ramsey, then
Shawcross.

Funny how the haters can only recall Gallas’ tackle as an example of an Arsenal bad tackle…if you don’t retaliate at some point you are seen as soft – and the thugs break your leags (taylor, shawcross…). Robinson froths at the mouth like a junk yard dog when he plays and is outclassed by the Gunners. That was a studs up intent to do harm foul and should have been a strait red, period! Davies should have been thrown out before Cahill was – I give him 4 yellows in the game. And if Cahill’s foul was a real red (upheald today) then Robinson’s should have been 5 games. The Ref is a discrace both ways. The FA should send him on his way.

Firstly, the Zamora challenge wasn’t even a foul. It was a freak injury, these things happen. If you want to “stamp out” the sort of tackle that injured Zamora, well pretty much ALL tackles will need to be stamped out.

As for the wider issue, I must admit, I completely disagree. Players are massively protected. The only way to go any further would be to virtually ban all contact, and that isn’t a sport I want to see. Some people just need to learn that football IS a physical game.

For example the Robinson tackle, for me that is a solid yellow card. Late, careless, mistimed. MAYBE a red if the ref wants to be really fussy. Five years ago though we wouldn’t have people calling for repurcussions AFTER a match for a challenge like that. It isn’t squeamish, it isn’t a horror tackle. I sometimes wonder what planet some people are on. We are on a very slipperly slope as it is at the moment, without a bunch of over-sensitive ‘fans’ dictating the direction our game should go in. You don’t speak for me, and you don’t speak for 80% of the fans on the terraces.

“80% of the fans ” — I think that is a reach… 80% of the fans would far more rather not have their star players in Hospital having major surgury over a few thugs running around trying to keep the old English long Ball hit ’em hard game alive for a bit longer. The game has evolved, it’s time you lot do too. The game is suposed to be beautifull, not bloody!

I agree 110% that NO-ONE wants to see players injured, but equally, nothing raises the spirits of crowds than a good firm tackle. Anyone who has attended football matches will know that.

Also, there seems to be a lot of ‘new’ fans on here that expect all teams to play the exact same style of fluid, passing football. That is ridiculous. Do you expect Bolton to go to the Emirates and out pass Arsenal? The beauty of the PL is the variation in styles of play. WIthout such variation, it would be very, very dull.

I’m NO new fan…but as a footballer I have evolved, and think it is time that the EPL did too… variation in style, formations, coaching, all fine…but when reffs turn a blind eye on the pitch to what would amount to criminal charges outside of the stadium – then I must speak out. Leave your feet with studs up and come up screaming your innocence after a compund fracture – your finished – and a loser. That old commercial stating that the EPL is the best league in the world just about wrong now.
The old English Game is dead, as evidenced by the lack of World Cup Success since 1966. The USA took the Group! Spain, Italy and Germany get it…why can’t England evolve? Well, because a percentage of old timers and hanger ons want blood sport and pain in the game. “It’s our right” That’s how Empires fall mate.

The guy has been sent off once in his entire career, and it was a dubious sending off as well (against Arsenal last seasons). He has had a feisty battle with Joey Barton a couple of weeks ago, and suddenly people who have never heard of him before are labelling him a monster.

It is so so unfortunate that it was his challenge that hurt Zamora, but honestly, it could have been any other player in the PL making the challenge. FFS the commentator on Match of the Day even said “Great Challenge”.

And as for the Barton incident, I suggest you watch this and tell me how many fouls Henry commits on him. Literally just the one in which he is booked for (where he jumps on him a bit at the end). The others are meaty challenges right on the ball between two committed players.

Robinson tackle was red card worthy. Problem is, Davies Headbutt while going for the ball was never red card worthy. However, the typically whining arsenal players bitched to the ref so much, he gave an undeserving red card to Cahill. That should never have been a red. So, Robinson perhaps knowing that the ref already gave Bolton an undeserved red, went in recklessly and hurt Diaby. I don’t hate arsenal, but if they didn’t cry at every foul and realize and deal with teams that are rough with them, they could protect themselves. I’m not saying arsenal should blame themselves, but the way they whine opens them up to this type of thing.

On a yellow card , Davis went for the ball. I agree he went for the ball but he was wildly inaccurate and never getting there and went through Koscielny. Committed yes, reckless and dangerous – surely yes.
On a yellow….

This is exactly what happened when I surfed the English press the same night when Ramsey got injured. Lots of Shawcross sympathizers and except for few, not a lot of sympathy for poor Ramsey.
This was another atrocity that went unpunished. Sliding in with studs up and hammering Diaby’s leg. Ya ya, nice tackle!! 50-50 challenge, ya ya, whatever, too bad there was an injury, anybody else would have done the same thing, oh look at the past, the guy has one red card and hasn’t done anything bad in the past.
As previously mentioned, unless Rooney, Lampard or Gerrard has broken leg, English press and the FA will keep silent. For now, they will focus on dives, coz that’s actually what kills the game. Actors!!! actors!!!!!!!!!! stop diving. Stop diving!!! please..!!!!!!

As we have agreed in the past, the EPL definitely needs a post match review panel, whether it be for diving or to adjudicate questions such as the Robinson/Diaby incident. It works well in other sports, so there is no particular reason not to institute it for football.

Everyone should realize, though, that it won’t necessarily eliminate or even lessen dangerous tackles. It will however punish them if they are found to be so, which may in the long run alter player behavior to some degree.

Review panels don’t go on witch hunts. They view the incident, with the offending party present to give his side of things, and then make a ruling based on all the evidence. Fans on one side or the other are then outraged at the review panel’s judgement…..and the beat goes on.

However, that is not a reason for doing nothing, which is why I think post match review is necessary. Let’s start somewhere.

“Nothing will ever be attempted if all possible objections must first be overcome.”…Samuel Johnson

If Diaby had had his foot placed firmly on the ground for that tackle by Robinson then he would have been carried off the field on a stretcher with his leg broken. If you watch the video, not having his leg placed firmly on the gound allowed it to swing backwards after the challenge, thereby lessening the impact/damage.

There are so many players in the EFL who you can marginally call football players like Robinson it borders belief. The FA and the refs hide behind the words “commitment” and “passion” because of the large number of players who should only be playing Sunday league football. Karl Henry should not have been playing since he should have already received a straight red for the challenges he made on Joey Barton. Now England has one of its top forwards out for the majority of the qualifying campaign for this year. Well done clowns (i.e. FA and refs)!!! Take a lesson from Spain (who are both European and World Champions), learn to protect you top players by punishing those sort of tackles. Then they will be available to play all year round and have longer careers. Both Henry and Robinson would have received long bans if they were playing in the la Liga.

Just watched Arsenal v Spuds… I lost track of how many bone crunching tackels Spuds did on Wilshire. It might take him some time to recover. It took extra time, and I’m sure a phone call from the FA, to get the reff to actually do the right thing. Refferee reform is needed now! Biggest thing wrong with the game, aside from needless angry leg breaking tackles because your team can not retain possesion. Get on with it!