Another classic CTF arena from the earliest days of Threewave and our friends "Casey" and "Zoid." Like ‘Bloodlust’ and ‘Courtyard’, Finnegan’s was originally created and released in late 1999 as part of a 3-pack of CTF maps for the original QUAKE III Arena. Finnegan’s is the smallest of the three maps, designed for 8-10 players. This level provides fast paced action through well crafted tight hallway routes that run both high and low between two fog-pit protected flag rooms. This arena has been a long-time highly requested favorite, and welcome its addition to the QUAKE LIVE CTF arena rotation with open glowing arms.

Gothic Rage (DUEL) - known as qxtourney1

This dreary three story gothic abode encourages close range combat as players spiral about its three atriums and narrow corridors. Great for Duel, Free for All, and small team-play, Gothic Rage is reminiscent of original old-school Quake deathmatch arenas.

Solid (2v2 TDM) - known as cpm29

Originally designed for fast and fun 2v2 matches, this Challenge ProMode Arena classic by “swelt” also offers some great opportunities for cat-and-mouse style Duels. Highly adaptive to varying gameplay styles, we expect this ‘solid’ piece of work to shine in 2v2 Team Deathmatch, Duel, Freeze Tag and Clan Arena.

Window Pain (Small CA) - known as ra3map2_3

This small Rocket Arena 3 level crafted by Adam Bellefeuille is a sibling to the recently released map, ‘Somewhat Damaged’. In Window Pain, 2-6 players fight for map control as they are partially separated by two retractable panes of glass in this simple but elegant two-room design. A favorite amongst many RA3 Duel Arena fans, we look forward to bringing this classic back to life.

Might be just me, but it feels like OSP movement (as if you have constant 125 FPS) but with maps that are smaller than usual.

Combat has gotten much faster too, if you and the enemy are fighting pretty close, you can jump right near them, into their range but the extra height means you can stay in air when passing them briefly, if you fire a rocket at the ground it pushes you further past them. Making the combat really interesting.

I used to jump forwards into enemy fire before the update to actually dodge effectively, it worked well, but now i can do it really easily. I can't wait to see cypher fight with these new physics, hes going to fucking beast people with his combos now.

"Combat has gotten much faster too, if you and the enemy are fighting pretty close, you can jump right near them, into their range but the extra height means you can stay in air when passing them briefly, if you fire a rocket at the ground it pushes you further past them. Making the combat really interesting."

This is true and funny. Its awesome when you surprise your enemy with a quick circlejump and while passing next to them you hit that rocket, as you go you can continue strafin with the speed you gained from the original jump+rocket impulse and finish with lg/rg depending on the circunstances.

There, be useful and tell us what you think is gonna change cause right now I have no idea if it's good ( different pacing, rewarding aggressive plays ) or bad ( weirds jumps, clipping everywhere, the "yo stand up bro " effect when you hit a ledge and " barely " make it that I get way more than before and the fact that I already consider people who dare +forward rocket my ass while I'm desperately trying to lg them as über aggrogressive cpm bitches )

Is it only me or do the rockets feel faster ? I spent an hour landing crazy rockets earlier this morning because they felt pretty point'n'click.

uhm... i'm at work so this is just a guess: chainjumping gives you a boost up stairs when you time the mini-jumps well, right?

could i do the same with circle-jumping in a close circle? the jumps would also be pretty close together... if we'd gain serious speed like this it could open up new ways of movement.

more food for thought: while be did not get ospdm5a (the version with the cpm jump stuff), we got cpm4. there should be some possibilities for jumps, eg. ra/lg room exit -> quad and rl tele exit -> ya/pg.

In Q3 it always was "Triple-Quad", but weapon damage was higher back then. However, that is not the case for the SG which is THE quadrun weapon atm. Maybe this change aims to reduce the SG's efficiency with Quad as the damage reduction should be most noticable with the SG spread on mid to long distances. 4x Quad has led to indiscriminate use of the SG no matter the distance.

On maps where a BS is present this change kinda re-evaluates the hole thing. On dm14 BS will rule Quad once again (was a bit up in the air after the splash damage change for BS) and on maps where Quad should be stronger than BS this change could have a big impact. Atm noone I know goes for BS over Quad on Purgatory. But with only a 3x Quad + RG and RL close to BS? Hm. Sounds like a deal.

thing is ... from my understanding tdm is about securing the better items for the team to get an advantage in resources over the enemy team. Making powerups less valuable makes the game more ffa because there is nothing worthwhile to secure.

about the BS thing ... why not make BS stronger instead of making quad weaker?

PS: dont mind me too much ... this are the words of a qw fan :) a game where items do count :-)

How? BS was 75% damage reduction + 100% splash damage reduction already before the nerf (now its 75%/75%). Increasing the damage reduction even further ends in godmode for 30 seconds...

Powerups (at least Quad and BS) still have a huge impact on TDM, even with a weaker BS and only a 3x Quad. If anything, the normal items have become more important; I don't see how this will make TDM more FFA-ish.

Yeah and that's the difference between other quakes and this one. What are we going to get, 1 maybe 2 (and that's being very optimistic) brand new maps in the next year that'll offer new challenges made by these physics changes?

The way it is now feels kinda random, maybe incomplete as far as movement goes.

The way I'm seeing is is that quakelive is starting to look more and more like CPM, instead of finding a balance. A lot of CPMA features are already implemented, but now also part of the physics. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see where this is going...

Even though I am a CPM player, I don't think watching a CPM game is that exciting.

The thing that makes Quake exciting is simply sneaking through corridors, might sound boring but certainly builds up tension for viewing audiences. That's it, someone trying to snatch an item that decides between loss or win. The slow buildup of comebacks adds to the climax of a player trying to make a comeback. No-one wants to see dull 40-30 scorelines.

It doesn't need to. Personally I'd rather not have it so fast that noobs can't handle it, and that fights become too chaotic. Fights need to be measured and based on aim, but you should be able to navigate the map quickly if you want to.

jump height wasn't changed at all, if you are refering to the jump out of the tele thats higher, thats just the chainjump, you can still do it normally is as well if you dont jump before going through the teleporter.

the game is a lil faster and a bit more "responsive" now, which is obviously nice.

this with all the weapons balances changes, the new hitboxes and the slightly modified physics finally make "vq3" enjoyable to play. This is how q3 has to be in 2010, fuck conservative people, if you don't like these changes, you are stupid and don't understand a shit about how q3 has to be for serious business fatal1ty competition. You miss your 100dmg rail ? Ok, fine, i put my AWP in your ass, kankerson. You miss your old fat hitbox ? Ok, fine, go eat more mcdonalds. You miss your slow, unresponsive and floaty physics ? Go play some submarine simulator ffs, you ugly fuck. Rockets are too fast ? Learn how to move quicker than a submarine, skinny nerd fuck. I don't know, i just don't like you, keep playing your OSP shit for 4236363 more years or maybe try CS:S Promode (LOL), but pls leave us alone. We like games that requiere SKILL, not fucking so-called "tactical" all rail long range camp position abuse point & click instant death instagib fat nuclear rocket xerp'ed LG random SG vq3 crap. CPM FTW. QL Gameplay balance FTW. You are ugly i want you to suffer, die, die.

Of course it does. If you don't need to do special jumps to move around fast on a map, what else does this make the game, than easier?

If you haven't found vq3 enjoyable to play, than your just one of those noobs that id is trying to cater to with QL. OSP and CPMA are way better then what QL is up to, and they are like this for a long long time now. You shouldn't judge about things you haven't even the slightest idea about.

We like games that requiere SKILL

Haha... if you want skill then OSP and CPMA are the real deal, not this watered down, crippled, wannabe version that QL is.

We've been working our asses off the learn all the movement/ gameplay elements and now it's all handed to newbs like you. If you haven't got the guts to put at least some work into getting better at anything, than you ain't worth shit.

it does make it easier, but there's even more to learn now as the speed has increased, and it makes the game even more exciting, i would definitely say ql is better than better than it was before and it looks like it'll release CPM for it soon

Lol. You are the same VQ3 fanboy that posted in the other thread about the Anime gaming cup, and praised your idol Zero4.

VQ3 is irrelevant. It became irrelevant a long time ago. QL is becoming faster, more exciting, and more CPMish. I'm glad its going in this direction - people play Quake for the fast-paced deathmatch, not for playing a fantasy armor management league.

You can keep on posting, but Q3 has become irrelevant long ago. So in the end, you can either deal with these changes and adapt, or also become irrelevant.

Stop the CA hate you wannabe fatal1ty fuck. This is a gametype like another. It's just more newb-friendly, what's wrong with that ?
It's still quake, and if you want to be real good, you need practice, just like everything. It's just that there's no money involved in CA, so people are like "omfg CA = CS for quake, dumbed down version of TDM, all rail gametype blablabla". You don't like CA ? Fine. But pls stop talking shit about it all the time.
Btw i've never said that i'm the best CA player ever, just that i'm can be a really though opponent @ 1on1 CA (i'm one of the best 1on1 CA player, if not the best, but i'm just like noctis, fucking inconsistent).
I still have fun playing it, so what ? I play whatever i like, just stfu.

"Of course it does. If you don't need to do special jumps to move around fast on a map, what else does this make the game, than easier?"

You still need to do special jumps... Some of them are a lil easier but anyways they weren't that hard to perform even before the update, i mean, most of them. There's like 1 or 2 really hard jumps on some maps like furious heights etc that can be done more frenquently now, and it's definitely GOOD. You don't need to be w3sp anymore to make some really interesting and hard jumps, but you still need SKILL to do it. It's not like if they were adding bunny-hop or anything...
Also, read Ryfje's reply (comment #152).

"If you haven't found vq3 enjoyable to play, than your just one of those noobs that id is trying to cater to with QL."

I found vq3 VERY enjoyable to play back in the day (around 2004), but when you taste some CPM and even q4, you just realize that vq3 is far from being the "perfect" gameplay for competition. It was good when people didn't have as much aim as today, crappy connections, worst mouses/netcode, etc etc.. But we are in 2010 now, time for some changes/polishing. When John Carmack made Q3 he wasn't thinking like "okay, i want to make the perfect game for the IEM", you know, that's why the vq3 gameplay, although being extremely fun to play, wasn't the most balanced game ever, but people got used to it...

"OSP and CPMA are way better then what QL is up to, and they are like this for a long long time now. You shouldn't judge about things you haven't even the slightest idea about."

I know more about the quake series and all the mods than you'll ever do, so pls... Don't try to teach me anything...

"We've been working our asses off the learn all the movement/ gameplay elements and now it's all handed to newbs like you. If you haven't got the guts to put at least some work into getting better at anything, than you ain't worth shit. "

lol. I play since 2004 on & off, so obviously i was also "working my ass off" (LOL, ASIF, DO YOU NEED MONEY FOR IT ? LOL) to learn all the movement/gameplay elements... If you're able to play non stop during all these years but unable to re-adapt to something slightly altered, then i guess that there's something wrong with you...

If you use RJ scripts ingame while competing I'll call you whatever I like. I know that many people did use them in the past and probably still do. That does not change the fact however, that RJ should require your own input and concentration. Can't RJ and do the other stuff at the same time?

Can somebody explain the chain jumping thing cause i don geddit. Its like you just jump leaving +forward pressed and if you time the jumps correctly it accelerates? Kinda strafejumping but without the strafe¿ Thanks

Afaik, after the first jump, if there is a ledge you can jump a second time and get boosted a bit. With stairs, you can do it multiple times. Depending on how much boost they set, this may give a noticeable speedup.

tbh I can´t cope with the new movement atm... it´s just. waaaah. The splash height, if you get hit by a rocket is way higher aswell, you fly around without any control, getting hit by another rocket. Moving around corners, too fast, no aircontrol, losing trajection, bumping to the walls... all over the place... I think it´ll take some time until I get used to the new movement which is more like a drunken whale tipping it´s way through the supermarket on the way to get some cheese. w t f.

dont like new physics, why was it even changed in the first place ? If ql go down the cpma route, that would be the worst thing ever. quad should be returned as well. and chat tokens should be for standard users as well, wtf

Dammit, usually ESR whine at least had valid reasons behind it, but now people whine just because they want to whine...
Quad damage was 3x for 10 years in Q3 and it was Q3 that produced golden age of TDM. What's wrong with it? No reasons given by whiners, they want just whine about something.
Comments about the "new" physics are most ridiculous. Most of them are about things that aren't affected or changed at all. Stop seeing imaginary stuff!

At least regarding the weapons that were changed from q3 to qlive, damage is slightly increased with qlive's 4x vs q3's 3x quad. With 3x quad in qlive now, damage is quite less in some cases compared to q3.

Problem is there's hundreds of bugs to be fixed and many features that could be added. But hey we gotta rebalance these powerups yo! Because other than the people crying about others using quad in the first place, no one is complaining about the BS/QUAD balance.

Nah, the real problem is that most people don't want to realize that :
1. the average internet connection in 2010 is way better than in 2002
2. everyone and their mom have a better aim, even after the hitbox update.

pmove_ first came to light when id introduced fps independent physics at some point in q3 (and it was horribly broken at that time). afaik the new pmove_ variables control exactly that: player movement physics.

there's nothing too special about those, some people got excited at the possibility of changing the gameplay while forgetting that up until now id does not support community control over anything. let's not even start with mods etc. :)

How did you work that out, in 2008 the game was a pile of shit.. Not to mention that not all spectators want to watch a slow-paced brain game, and they actually some excitement, so the physics changes and i'm sure future changes are going to make the game more fast paced and exciting which is better imo.

I didn't play q3 at all, so I don't mind q3 maps, I never actually said the addition of q3 maps was good, I'm actually quite against it, I would prefer newly made decent maps. I'm not a fanboy either, I actually don't like how fast id software are at making these updates, but I'd rather support a game I play than rage about it.

Doesn't prove anything imo, weird stuff like was already constantly happening to me before.
Most extreme thing I can remember was a rocket in mh corridor on bloodrun that landed in front of me/on my side while I was +backing towards lg and it popped me the other way around. oh hai mega oh bye mega.

Well.. I'm sure they would if there was a large community base, I think id should release CPM as a seperate gametype to bring in more paying customers but still please vq3 players..but either way I think i'd enjoy CPM more and it would be alot more spectator friendly for sure.

I have played q3, just not much of it, i played ql then checked out q3 not long ago and CPM, so I have played it, from watching like Vo0 does CPM, it looks more exciting, thats my opinion though, I know alot of people want it..

CPM was so boring to play. It was all spam and rush, hardly any brain needed, only prediction of the enemy.

The incorporation of chain jumps resembles tiny q2 doublejumps and the jump height is like OSP with 125 FPS. Telejumps are like CPM.

Quakelive has taken these certain features that people enjoyed and implemented them into VQ3, which I really like.

I think id should stop right now. The game is more fluid, but not too overboard like CPM with air strafe and bullshit.

You can now +forward bitches, up stairs around corners (clipping) whatever, if a nigga is Rapha he'll need to be prepared for zerg rushing cypher in his ass.

I think it's a good thing.

Also, the jump pad new jump is useful. You can catch people unaware when they are waiting, or just do it regular to attack from the top (once everyone starts using the low jump - then using normal jump on bounce pad will catch ppl offguard too)

almostlost-pg_to_ya.dm_73
asylum-notuseful.dm_73 // but it's fun
asylum-useful.dm_73 // to confuse the opponent in CA :)
furious-gl_to_rl.dm_73 // fastest way from GL to upper RL
intervention-jumps_from_rail.dm_73 // the last two jumps in this demo are just easier now
quarantine-ca_spawn.dm_73 // useful for quick regroup at nest in CA
quarantine-triplestairjump.dm_73
solid-cg_to_mega.dm_73 // the new map Solid seems to be designed around a central mega that
can be approached from all directions with chainjumps for a quick snatch
solid-rl_to_mega.dm_73
solid-useless_to_sg.dm_73
solid-ya_to_mega1.dm_73
solid-ya_to_mega2.dm_73