Q: Jim,I'm a licensed NH Electrician I have a Honeywell 7500Watt Portable Generator that will be used to supply selected loads in a non-separately derived residential application as outlined by the 2011 NEC. The tag on this generator indicated that the neutral is bonded to the frame. I need to know if this generator can be made into a floating neutral generator without voiding listings or warranty. If the answer is yes then where and how does the manufacture recommend the removal of the bond? And will the manufacture send a new label that indicates the generator is now a floating neutral generator. This will be an issue with any generator that has its neutral bonded to the frame portable or stationary. Any info that you can give me will be a great help.

Regards,

Ron T.

by Ron Tasker from New Hampshire on January 08, 2012

A: Many generators that have a bonded neutral to frame can be modified so the neutral is floating, or separate from the frame and generator ground. If the neutral connection (bond) to frame can be removed, if the manufacturer supports this, it’s usually the best solution as it would result in a “floating neutral” generator and would be ideal for connecting to most transfer switches.

If the generator manufacturer does not support modifying the generator to remove the bond between neutral and ground/frame, the system can be setup to meet all codes by using a neutral switching transfer switch. A “non-separately derived system” is where the generator neutral is floating, and its neutral is always interconnected with the neutral for the utility – this is the most common way backup systems are setup – including automatic backup systems.

If you need to isolate the neutral then you need to use a GFI type transfer switch such as the Reliance Controls "X" series switches.....see link for details.

Note: Typically these switches are not required unless the 120/240v outlet on the generator is GFI protected which is found on Professional generators such as the Generac "XP" models and not the "XG" model.

The fact that a generator has a bonded-neutral does not rule out compatibility with 2-pole transfer switches, which make up the majority of all transfer switches. The only time that a portable generator will not function with a 2-pole transfer switch is if the generator has a bonded-neutral AND there is a GFCI breaker or GFCI mechanism protecting the receptacle being used to connect the generator to the transfer switch. Most 120/240v generator receptacles are not GFCI protected.

National Code does not require switching the neutral in general, but arguably the neutral should be switched when using a bonded generator based on how the system is setup and defined as a whole. Any time a bonded-neutral generator is connected through a transfer switch to a house wiring system, what results are two neutral-to-ground bond points: one at the main panel and one at the generator. This can be construed as having two bond points in the electrical system, even though the portable generator is not part of the system, and therefore one of the bond points should be removed (or a transfer device implemented that isolates the neutral).

Having two bond points in this scenario creates 'dual paths' on the ground and neutral between the generator and the house panel, aka "ground loop", meaning the ground wire from the generator to the house panel will share some of the return power with the neutral wire. This leads to a very small amount of voltage on the ground wire between the generator and house panel. It can be argued by an installer or authority that this power on the ground is objectionable, and a special neutral switching setup might be mandated. This is also why if there is a GFCI breaker protecting the generator receptacle, it will sense this power being lost on the neutral (to the ground) and will trip every time the generator is connected, even under No load.

* If the generator does not have a GFCI protecting the in-use receptacle, there will not be a trip and the generator will power circuits successfully. Now it’s just a question of whether having this setup is acceptable to the home owner, installer and authority if applicable. Using bonded generators without switching the neutral has been a common application for many years, regardless of how the code is interpreted, but about 10 years ago generators started adding GFCI's (per OSHA job site requirements) and wiring them into the larger receptacles, which will limit their applications when used at homes. The 2014 code will require new generators to have built in GFCI’s, but only on the 15/20 amp 120 volt outlets, which in most cases are not being used to power a transfer switch. If we look at all of the portable generators that are bonded neutral, and then separate the models WITH a GFCI breaker protecting the 120/240 outlet, the percentage of these generators is extremely small. These are the only generators that will functionally require a 3-pole transfer switch that breaks the neutral.

Breaking the neutral with a “3-pole” (neutral switching) transfer device eliminates the ground loop (dual paths) between the generator and house panel created by having two bond points, and will eliminate the problem of the GFCI breaker tripping creating a “separately derived system” where the generator neutral is never common with the utility neutral.

The Generac XP series are engineered specifically with contractors and construction sites in mind. All models have the Generac OHVI® engine. These models are built to withstand extended job site use.

The XP Series comes with impact-resistant cast metal corners and a heavy-duty, hardened steel tube cradle. They even come with integrated handle supports and brackets that are engineered as part of the casting for even more durability.

The Generac XP series are engineered specifically with contractors and construction sites in mind. All models have the Generac OHVI® engine. These models are built to withstand extended job site use.

The XP Series comes with impact-resistant cast metal corners and a heavy-duty, hardened steel tube cradle. They even come with integrated handle supports and brackets that are engineered as part of the casting for even more durability.

As long as you ground this generator, and we always recommend you do, the GFI outlets will provide you ground fault protection for your tools.

Another bonus is the XP series are built right here in Wisconsin!

For all of these reasons we consider it the best Professional generator. If you need more than 6500 watts we recommend you move up to the XP8000E.

And one of the other reasons this model earns the better is spot- it comes with a 3 year commercial warranty.

Mike Recommends This Model

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107

Jonathan S.Monroe Township, NJ

14 Helpful Votes

REVIEWED

NOV.

23

2012

Ready For Next Year's Hurricane!

Here in NJ, the new normal seems to be a hurricane once per year (n=2). I had always wanted a generator, but struggled to justify the cost.

This year, when Sandy hit, we were very lucky to escape with little or no damage, but given the prospects of an indeterminate period without electric, we finally decided enough was enough. Fortunately, I have two wonderful neighbors who were willing to share the output of their generators with me. As it turned out we were without power for 10 days.

Given the cost of the food we have in our refrigerator and two larger freezers, and the need to care for two small boys (laundry, baths, and dishes), buying a generator was definitely a worthwhile investment!

EGD did a phenomenal job! We lost power on Monday, decided to order the Generac XP6500E on Thursday (w/rush and lift gate) and the unit was delivered to my house on Tuesday evening. Given the incredible volume of sales EGD was handling, and the fact that generators ship via common carrier (aka tractor trailer) -- I'm pretty impressed.

EGD shipped the generator the same day I ordered (Thurs), I was hoping the common carrier could get it to me on Monday as estimated, but it seems they were a bit overwhelmed as well (plus I'm sure the roads and abnormal number of residential deliveries didn't help)

Now onto my review of the generator. I wanted a generator between 5 and 8kW, with voltage regulation, and electric start (so my wife can start it). I also wanted high quality power as most of my appliances are electronically controlled, and I also have a number of computers, and networking equipment. Neither of my neighbor's generators have voltage regulation, and when I looked at their voltage and frequency fluctuations on my Fluke multimeter I cringed. This left me with only a couple choices -- Yamaha or Honda Inverter based gen sets (which are fabulous units but over $1000 more), or the Generac XP series with True Power. I had wanted to get the XP8000E, but they were all sold out. So I "settled" for the XP6500E

This seems like a pretty solid generator:

PROs: It's well built, heavy, has a proper oil filter, and met all of my technical specifications. The unit arrived undamaged, and needed only 30min of prep before I was ready to turn it on and plug in my loads (via extension cords). Power quality is very good, and the voltage is almost as stable as our utility. This unit comes with everything you need to start it up (except gas) and a PM kit for the first oil change!

CONS: It's pretty loud, smells like it's running rich most of the time, makes a fair amount of exhaust, and goes through gasoline like it's water. I'm getting about 11-12 hours on 9 gallons -- which is the spec for 50% load. It didn't occur to me how challenging it might be to buy gasoline during the wide-spread destruction we experienced in NJ. Thank goodness for Amazon and UPS who did a great job getting me extension cords, gas cans, and the like.

ISSUE: So the only issue I've had with this unit is due to the new 2011 OSHA standard for GFCI and the idiotic idea of protecting the entire outlet panel -- including the L14-30R!!! After about 10-15 minutes supplying my connected load, the 30AMP 2-Pole GFCI breaker (which protected the entire panel) on the generator would trip -- I think when my hot water heater would start up. The connected load was way less than 30 amps per pole -- more like 10. This load ran fine on my neighbor's units (without GFCI) for almost a week together with their loads.

What a dumb idea on the part of Generac. Most other gen sets just protect the normal 120VAC 15 and/or 20 amps outlets. Recall that I'm not using a transfer panel so I did not have a ground loop -- I was using proper (Coleman Cable) 3-prong extension cords! I grounded my generator (with an 8-foot grounding rod) and my main feeder extension cord was a GFCI extension cord (which has never tripped) but for some reason the GFCI main breaker in the Generac XP6500E is either really sensitive to leakage or is defective. I called Generac for tech support, and they were completely useless. They suggested I had run too much extension cord and that my cord gauge (all 12-gauge for multiple 20amp legs) was the problem. I'd strongly encourage Generac to design their panels just like everyone else to avoid these unnecessary headaches.

For those of you considering the purchase of this unit or the XP8000E, please be advised of this issue. I knew about it prior to purchase, but didn't think it would effect me because I wasn't using a transfer switch -- I was wrong. Save your pennies, and get a Honda or Yamaha next time. You'll go through 1/2 as much gas, and protect the environment, too (-:

Here in NJ, the new normal seems to be a hurricane once per year (n=2). I had always wanted a generator, but struggled to justify the cost.

This year, when Sandy hit, we were very lucky to escape with little or no damage, but given the prospects of an indeterminate period without electric, we finally decided enough was enough. Fortunately, I have two wonderful neighbors who were willing to share the output of their generators with me. As it turned out we were without power for 10 days. ... more

Product Expert

Jonathan,

Your use of a GFCI extension cord is causing the GFCI main breaker on the generator to trip.

Bought as a stand by unit. Immediately in went down due to defective control module twice. 2 years engine blew but supposedly under warranty. Generac could help because no parts. Nothing but excuses. Waiting well over 40 days. Then bushing went after another $1000 repair. Still doesn't work. But Hannah says about "I am A Top priority". Then no return calls. Don't buy anything from Generac. They are terrible!

Cons:Unreliable, Terrible Warranty Service Would Never Buy Anything From Generac

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163

Todd

Purchased 2/7/13

4 Reviews

17 Helpful Votes

REVIEWED

APR.

29

2013

Xp Series A Quality Product

I bought a Generac for the pressure lubrication as well as being made in USA.

This generator is being used as a home backup for power outages which are becoming all to common.

I like that it has the auto idle feature. It is a full panel GFCI protected unit which means that you will need a 3 pole transfer switch which also breaks the neutral, otherwise it will constantly trip the GFCI breaker on the unit. I installed the Reliance XRC0603 Transfer Panel in my setup.

Electric start feature is great and it starts effortlessly every time. The wheels and handle make it a breeze to wheel around on level surfaces although it takes a little more effort to go up hills. In my situation it's slightly up hill from my garage to the house. The handle is very sturdy and locks solidly into position when needed.

Set up was very straight forward and involved installing the wheels, rubber feet, battery and engine oil. This generator came with extra oil filter, air filter and spark plug for the first maintenance when needed.

I think the extra features and warranty were worth the additional cost over the XG series. I would much rather pay a little more up front for a quality product that is reliable than to go cheap and have it not run when you need it the most.

Also the trucking company was great. They called ahead to see what size truck would be required to reach my residence. As a result they sent a smaller truck which was able to drop the generator off right in front of the garage. The operator then hand trucked it right inside for me. What more can you ask for.

Electric Generators Direct has been a pleasure to do business with and I highly recommend them.

I bought a Generac for the pressure lubrication as well as being made in USA.

This generator is being used as a home backup for power outages which are becoming all to common.

I like that it has the auto idle feature. It is a full panel GFCI protected unit which means that you will need a 3 pole transfer switch which also breaks the neutral, otherwise it will constantly trip the GFCI breaker on the unit. I installed the Reliance XRC0603 Transfer Panel in my setup.