Topper wrote:They were fair and reasonable deals that did not upset the payroll structure. I said nothing of GMMG limiting himself to guys willing to take a discount. Nor did I say anything about BC boys coming home.

True enough.

(BC boys are the obvious candidates for the "take less to play here" types of deals, or at least the only players one can reasonably assume to be, is why I brought that into this.)

I expect the team to be making a deal or two like that this offseason, particularly if they can't find a trade they like ahead of July 1st.

mathonwy wrote:Ok, everyone seems to be hung up on the whole concept of a mentor.

Just having some fun with it dude.

Not that everyone can't use some guidance now and then, but the Sedins are elder statesmen in the league; Henrik is 29th in games played among active players (and a bunch of the guys in front of him are now depth players like Smyth, Dvorak, Regehr, Koivu, Gill) and 26th in playoff GP among active players.

Aside from their lack of a cup ring, if there are players in the league who don't need (or put differently, couldn't have - given the few available candidates) a mentor the Sedins are high on the list.

It'd be like trying to get your grandfather a seat with the ninety year olds at the retirement home.

dbr wrote:Not that everyone can't use some guidance now and then, but the Sedins are elder statesmen in the league; Henrik is 29th in games played among active players (and a bunch of the guys in front of him are now depth players like Smyth, Dvorak, Regehr, Koivu, Gill) and 26th in playoff GP among active players.

Aside from their lack of a cup ring, if there are players in the league who don't need (or put differently, couldn't have - given the few available candidates) a mentor the Sedins are high on the list.

It'd be like trying to get your grandfather a seat with the ninety year olds at the retirement home.

*LOL*

Meds wrote:Sundin was brought in for two reasons, to give us a legitimate top 6 pivot, and for Gillis to set the tone that the Canucks would be competitive in the UFA market because they were serious about winning.

Sundin then became a mentor for Kesler.

Yeah, Kes really came to his own playing on Sundin's wing. He benefited from Sundin's presence probably more than anyone in a tangible immediate way. Even though the twins were a bit older, I think they benefited from Sundin as well over time. I think the next couple seasons after, they were top players in the league (ie - MVP awards, scoring titles and what not).

herb wrote:Call me crazy, but I think Kassian has the type of skillset that will see him running the show on his own line. I don’t think he needs the Sedins.

What I think the Sedins need is some attention taken away from their line. My fingers and toes are crossed that Kesler and Kassian can get something going here.

The Sedins just aren't very good anymore. They need to be in a second line role for this team to become elite once again. As first liners they have now become subpar. Outside of October, they haven't been very good at all for us this season. When we receive no offense of course we aren't going to win many games. Offense has been a major issue with this team for years. It started off with poor playoff offense and that's slowly crept into the regular season. Gillis has sat on his ass ignoring it for years and now is paying for it.

Tonight I watched the top 10 goals and yes some goal were done by non stars but when was the last time you saw a Canuck drive to the net and dipsy doodle around a d man and score a highlight reel goal?

So will Gillis be left with testing the market and seeing what he can get for a reasonable amount?

There isn't much out there at all. There are decent 4/5 d men and a few forwards I think look interesting but signing a guy like Vanek for 6- 7 years scares the hell out of me. The trade route and a couple of 2nd tier signings may be the way to give this team a bit of a facelift.

The_Pauser wrote:When we receive no offense of course we aren't going to win many games. Offense has been a major issue with this team for years. It started off with poor playoff offense and that's slowly crept into the regular season. Gillis has sat on his ass ignoring it for years and now is paying for it.

This years roster features too much filler crap.

I agree. It's a transition/retooling/"wasted" year. The funny thing is that you've known it for months, I'm sure nobody needs me to go dig up posts from the beginning of the offseason where you pissed and moaned these very same things and about how if Gillis didn't move heaven and earth to add scorers to the lineup it would be another "wasted" year.

And if the team does do anything, like signing a proven scorer to a minor league try out to see if he might be worth a chance at the NHL level (ie. can he be better than Jensen, or Grenier is right now) you piss and moan about that too because the team isn't moving heaven and earth to improve their lineup in what you, and I, and everyone else already knows is a "wasted year."

But we all know that if they did move heaven and earth to bring in an actual current NHLer to fill a hole in the lineup, you'd be pissing and moaning because it would cost the team assets to do it. So really the only way this team wins with you is by either pulling off some pure fantasyland move like adding a first liner for nothing or trading the Sedins away for a future superstar. Of course it won't happen so the rest of us have to endure your constant whining and bellyaching about how something is happening that EVERYONE whose been paying attention could have predicted months ago.

And yeah this is where you trot out the "well I'm not going to accept mediocrity" routine, but here's the thing Pauser. Your acceptance or lack thereof isn't going to change the thing you're unhappy about. The only thing it will change is you, or more accurately in this case whether you are a miserable piece of shit who is a downer for anyone who comes into contact with you.

You are depriving some local counselor of $75/week who could be helping you work through your issues, although if money is an issue and your only option is to take to the god damn hockey talk message boards and vent your emotions there then I guess all I can say is you have my sympathies.

I don't think it's obvious to the Canucks coaches or management that this is a "wasted year". There are things that can be done to win now and later.

Just because one "pays attention" and notes that the team is bad, and I mean putrid, offensively, does not mean that the team couldn't be improved in some ways (i.e. that's what a good GM does).

If you think Vinny Prospal is anything other than Jan Hlavac: The Sequel, then you're overly optimistic. If you think he's going to help the team in the future, you're wrong.

It is fair to point out the shortcomings of a GM who has dismantled (not improved) a team that was unstoppable just 3 short seasons ago. Or are you enjoying the fruits of Michael Grabner, a first rounder, Cody Hodgson and, Cory Schneider? Also, remember Salo, Erhoff and Samuelsson? They, who were let go for nothing.

Mondi wrote:I don't think it's obvious to the Canucks coaches or management that this is a "wasted year".

"Wasted year" is Pauser's preferred term for a season where we neither dump the Sedins for scraps, nor are by a wide margin the best team in the league.

Those of us without emotional imbalances prefer to call it "retooling" or what have you.

There are things that can be done to win now and later.

Just because one "pays attention" and notes that the team is bad, and I mean putrid, offensively, does not mean that the team couldn't be improved in some ways (i.e. that's what a good GM does).

And yes management should continue to try to improve the roster and the personnel should continue to try to win, nobody is saying any different. There's lots of room for reasonable discussion about those things.

If you think Vinny Prospal is anything other than Jan Hlavac: The Sequel, then you're overly optimistic. If you think he's going to help the team in the future, you're wrong.

Hey if you want to find an actual post where someone said the thing you're disagreeing with, prior to disagreeing with it, I would appreciate that.

I don't think you can. I think the most positive thing anyone has said is that it's a no risk move.

(But Hlavac is a weird comparison, a never was who was playing his way out of the NHL at his peak as a player.. compared to Prospal who despite being slow as molasses has scored at a respectable rate for years now. I don't think it's likely he does that this year, but beyond their nationality I don't really see a basis for comparison. They're both forwards?)

It is fair to point out the shortcomings of a GM who has dismantled (not improved) a team that was unstoppable just 3 short seasons ago. Or are you enjoying the fruits of Michael Grabner, a first rounder, Cody Hodgson and, Cory Schneider? Also, remember Salo, Erhoff and Samuelsson? They, who were let go for nothing.

Yeah. I have no problem with discussing those things. If you think the GM should be fired that's fine, I don't agree right now but that's fine and I'm totally willing to discuss it.

What I have a problem with is having any hope for reasonable discussion completely fucking demolished by people who know full well the current shortcomings of this team, have known what they would be since July, and still can't stop becoming unhinged about them in January. Those people need to get a grip.

But anyway like I said, I have no problem with people debating the job management has done here, I've done it at length on several occasions, recently at great length here. In fact it was in direct response to one of your posts Mondi but I don't believe you even bothered to reply.

So what exactly is your point here, are you just dropping in to defend the whiners and complainers and attempt to legitimize their emotional response, or do you want to actually take part in decent discussion?

I don't think anyone thinks he'll be the second coming of Peter Schaefer for chissakes.

We need help scoring goals, we can't just go out and sign a guaranteed 30 goal scorer right now and as shocking as this may sound the other 29 teams probably don't want to trade us anything that will help our scoring woes.