I know that this question is raised often but usually within the context of other questions. It just puzzles me why people think they should do it or even could do it.

As a United Methodist Pastor I knew that the Catholics were right years before I converted. I never used the Scriptures to attack the Church. I couldn’t understand then nor do I understand now why non or anti-Catholic think they can use the Scriptures against those by whom and for whom they exist.

Because so many of our Catholic brothers and sisters are so badly indoctrinated that these non-Catholics can get away with it. And many Catholics do not read the Bible, therefore, cannot use the Bible to defend their faith… I’ve seen so many JWs who were Catholics, it makes me wonder what in the world they were taught that they had to leave the one True faith.

As a non Catholic I think I can answer this question even though I personally don’t use the bible against folks, I just don’t know it well enough.

A lot of my fellow Atheists use scriptures against folks like you because thats all a lot of you know. At least thats true for the Christians who come harass us on atheist forums. We ask for sources other than your scriptures to back up “scientific facts” that they present…and time and time again all we get is more verses from the bible. Yes, the Christian that come on the atheist forums to harass us are typically pretty dumb, you guys don’t seem nearly as bad. Also, your beliefs are rooted in your scriptures so it only makes sense that we use those to try to make at least you see where we’re coming from.

Not to offend any of you, I don’t mean offence at all…thats just what I’ve observed and experienced.

I know that this question is raised often but usually within the context of other questions. It just puzzles me why people think they should do it or even could do it.

As a United Methodist Pastor I knew that the Catholics were right years before I converted. I never used the Scriptures to attack the Church. I couldn’t understand then nor do I understand now why non or anti-Catholic think they can use the Scriptures against those by whom and for whom they exist.

Perhaps someone has an answer for this.

If you use the Scriptures as a basis for your faith and for your actions based on that faith, as well as saying that everyone on the planet is bound by your interpretation of these Scriptures, why would one not use them in discussion? If you would like to have a discussion saying that the teachings of Church are totally valid without any reference to the Scripture, then that is a different matter. To say that it is okay for one party in a discussion to use them as evidence but not the other is special pleading.

I don’t see that pointing out or asking for an explanation of why such and such a position does not appear to logically follow from the basis that you claim for it is considered an attack. It is simply an expectation that one’s religion would have some internal consistency, especially one that says it is based on revealed truths and that those truths are found in Scripture.

As a non Catholic I think I can answer this question even though I personally don’t use the bible against folks, I just don’t know it well enough.

A lot of my fellow Atheists use scriptures against folks like you because thats all a lot of you know. At least thats true for the Christians who come harass us on atheist forums. We ask for sources other than your scriptures to back up “scientific facts” that they present…and time and time again all we get is more verses from the bible. Yes, the Christian that come on the atheist forums to harass us are typically pretty dumb, you guys don’t seem nearly as bad. Also, your beliefs are rooted in your scriptures so it only makes sense that we use those to try to make at least you see where we’re coming from.

Not to offend any of you, I don’t mean offence at all…thats just what I’ve observed and experienced.

If you use the Scriptures as a basis for your faith and for your actions based on that faith, as well as saying that everyone on the planet is bound by your interpretation of these Scriptures, why would one not use them in discussion? If you would like to have a discussion saying that the teachings of Church are totally valid without any reference to the Scripture, then that is a different matter. To say that it is okay for one party in a discussion to use them as evidence but not the other is special pleading.

I don’t see that pointing out or asking for an explanation of why such and such a position does not appear to logically follow from the basis that you claim for it is considered an attack. It is simply an expectation that one’s religion would have some internal consistency, especially one that says it is based on revealed truths and that those truths are found in Scripture.

Karen,

Why not make up your own Scriptures? Why take the true Scriptures and try to bend them to oppose the Church that wrote them and for whom they are written. Get your own.

scripture doesn’t exist because of the catholic church so don’t take credit for it… scripture was written down before there was even a church… all the catholic church did was put it together… besides… dont say “our scriptures”, the catholic church now isn’t the same church as it was 1800 years ago. so much stuff has happened… the only similarity the catholic chuch now has to the catholic church then is the name… the catholic church is decaying and anyone who would declare a human as “infallible” is the ignorant one…

As a non Catholic I think I can answer this question even though I personally don’t use the bible against folks, I just don’t know it well enough.

A lot of my fellow Atheists use scriptures against folks like you because thats all a lot of you know. At least thats true for the Christians who come harass us on atheist forums. We ask for sources other than your scriptures to back up “scientific facts” that they present…and time and time again all we get is more verses from the bible. Yes, the Christian that come on the atheist forums to harass us are typically pretty dumb, you guys don’t seem nearly as bad. Also, your beliefs are rooted in your scriptures so it only makes sense that we use those to try to make at least you see where we’re coming from.

Not to offend any of you, I don’t mean offence at all…thats just what I’ve observed and experienced.

Thanks for enlightening us.
So you still stick to Scriptures to attack us now? Which theories do you normally push towards Catholics?

scripture doesn’t exist because of the catholic church so don’t take credit for it… scripture was written down before there was even a church… all the catholic church did was put it together… besides… dont say “our scriptures”, the catholic church now isn’t the same church as it was 1800 years ago. so much stuff has happened… the only similarity the catholic chuch now has to the catholic church then is the name… the catholic church is decaying and anyone who would declare a human as “infallible” is the ignorant one…

scripture doesn’t exist because of the catholic church so don’t take credit for it… scripture was written down before there was even a church… all the catholic church did was put it together… besides… dont say “our scriptures”, the catholic church now isn’t the same church as it was 1800 years ago. so much stuff has happened… the only similarity the catholic chuch now has to the catholic church then is the name… the catholic church is decaying and anyone who would declare a human as “infallible” is the ignorant one…

scripture doesn’t exist because of the catholic church so don’t take credit for it… scripture was written down before there was even a church… all the catholic church did was put it together… besides… dont say “our scriptures”, the catholic church now isn’t the same church as it was 1800 years ago. so much stuff has happened… the only similarity the catholic chuch now has to the catholic church then is the name… the catholic church is decaying and anyone who would declare a human as “infallible” is the ignorant one…

The OT Scripture did came before the Church. But when the Church had to decide what ought to belong in the Bible, the Church listed 73 Old Testment and 27 New Testment as part of the Canon of Scripture in the Council of Rome 382 by Pope Damascus I.

Ignatius (another forum member wrote this):

The Decree of Pope St. Damasus I, Council of Rome. 382 A.D…

ST. DAMASUS 1, POPE, THE DECREE OF DAMASUS:

It is likewise decreed: Now, indeed, we must treat of the divine Scriptures: what the universal Catholic Church accepts and what she must shun.

The list of the Scriptures of the New and Eternal Testament, which the holy and Catholic Church receives: of the Gospels, one book according to Matthew, one book according to Mark, one book according to Luke, one book according to John. The Epistles of the Apostle Paul, fourteen in number: one to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, one to the Ephesians, two to the Thessalonians, one to the Galatians, one to the Philippians, one to the Colossians, two to Timothy, one to Titus one to Philemon, one to the Hebrews. Likewise, one book of the Apocalypse of John. And the Acts of the Apostles, one book. Likewise, the canonical Epistles, seven in number: of the Apostle Peter, two Epistles; of the Apostle James, one Epistle; of the Apostle John, one Epistle; of the other John, a Presbyter, two Epistles; of the Apostle Jude the Zealot, one Epistle. Thus concludes the canon of the New Testament.

Likewise it is decreed: After the announcement of all of these prophetic and evangelic or as well as apostolic writings which we have listed above as Scriptures, on which, by the grace of God, the Catholic Church is founded, we have considered that it ought to be announced that although all the Catholic Churches spread abroad through the world comprise but one bridal chamber of Christ, nevertheless, the holy Roman Church has been placed at the forefront not by the conciliar decisions of other Churches, but has received the primacy by the evangelic voice of our Lord and Savior, who says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it; and I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you shall have bound on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall have loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

maybe im just bitter because catholics i have come into contact with in the past have given me a warped view on the whole thing… you guys are right, it is very wrong for me to hostile toward you guys… i dont even know you. i have been rejected in the past for my non denominational beleifs by “catholics” and maybe that is the reason im so hostile toward it… maybe pray for me? i dunno. and you are right we are brothers in christ catholic or not… im sorry im so hostile… the catholic school i go to is just filled with catholic hippocrites (faculity included) that you guys might even be disgusted by if you saw them.

maybe im just bitter because catholics i have come into contact with in the past have given me a warped view on the whole thing… you guys are right, it is very wrong for me to hostile toward you guys… i dont even know you. i have been rejected in the past for my non denominational beleifs by “catholics” and maybe that is the reason im so hostile toward it… maybe pray for me? i dunno. and you are right we are brothers in christ catholic or not… im sorry im so hostile… the catholic school i go to is just filled with catholic hippocrites (faculity included) that you guys might even be disgusted by if you saw them.

Thanks for your honest reply. I believe we can discuss with love, and that way you can explain why you believe the way you believe and vice versa, we can explain to you and others why we believe what we believe.

Catholic or non-Catholics, we always have bad and good people. Even good people make mistakes too. I know I did and I am trying to change that, and of course with prayers and your prayers.

Just my opinion but I think that other religions try to “interpret” the Holy Bible as to what they think it says and then argue and debate with others to get thier point across.
To me that isnt the way God wants us to be. All of us should discuss our differences with a kind and loving heart and be thoughtful in our words to each other…:signofcross:

I know that this question is raised often but usually within the context of other questions. It just puzzles me why people think they should do it or even could do it.

As a United Methodist Pastor I knew that the Catholics were right years before I converted. I never used the Scriptures to attack the Church. I couldn’t understand then nor do I understand now why non or anti-Catholic think they can use the Scriptures against those by whom and for whom they exist.

Perhaps someone has an answer for this.

CDL

Oh I did as a Baptist. I used to attack it for its stance on Mary, Priestly celibacy, statues, Papal infallibility, sola fide, sola Scriptura, confession to a “man.” I think one reason I did the Bible against Catholic teaching was partly fear and partly pride. Fear of falling into something I thought was pagan because of what I had either been told was not of God or fear of having my world turned upside down by realizing don’t follow the totallity of truth or perhaps are lacking in some truths. And pride which we all have and struggle to overcome.
Protestants and I believe all Christians want to think and feel they are on the right track with Scriptural teaching and that they are obeying what Jesus wants them to obey; that everything is in order, much like when we put our children to bed and they want to know everything is in order and that they don’t have to fear the darkness. I as you am a convert, some reverts also experience what I did (and perhaps what you did) that being, we eventually found that our theology wasn’t lining up to the Scriptural scrutiny, that the early Church didn’t look like our Church’s teachings and that their was a huge historical gap between the end of the Bible and the reformation. This made me conclude that my arguments both theoligical and historical, against the Catholic Church weren’t persuasive any longer and I knew my position was wrong.

To answer the OP, I use scripture with all Christians. I grew up in a multi-denomonational family, attended a multi-denominational Christian school and even my Presbyterian church was a *de facto *multi-denominational church. With so many different traditions, the only way we could communicate was by citing the bible directly. Scripture was our lingua franca.

It was also a spiritual handshake. Just as you can judge a man by his clammy dead-fish handshake, you can also judge a Christian by their ignorance of scripture. I knew it as a Protestant kid and I *must *believe it as a Catholic: CCC 133 The Church "forcefully and specifically exhorts all the Christian faithful… to learn the surpassing knowledge of Jesus Christ, by frequent reading of the divine Scriptures. Ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ. By that criteria, the Catholics and LDS I met could not possibly be Christian since they were “ignorant of Christ.” The reason they didn’t know the bible was because it was irrelavant next to their own extra-biblical authority. So from my point of view, The book of Mormon was LDS, Tradition was Catholic and the Bible was Christian. :shrug: