However, I've heard they are nowhere nearly as important as side surrounds and that they don't have much unique content nor are used as much in surround effects vs. the side surrounds. Also, a lot of movies are still 5.1 and for movies or music I find matrix modes more of a novelty vs. meaningful improvement.

This was much more true in the past.
Now there are more and more 7.1 movies every day and the mixes include much more content for back surrounds in particular. Not as much as side surrounds in most cases but if you listened with and without back surrounds the bs would be an obvious omission when not used.

That's not really true with today's mixes. They put out a lot of sound.
And I listen to music a lot so they are very important to me. Those Yamaha speakers are truly crap. No way I would have them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond 007

I know this is a sub thread but I'm really surprised that everyone thinks it's MUCH more important to have $1200 worth of subs than to replace front height and back surround htib speakers worth $10/pair.

The Yamaha speakers I have are crap. (edited)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan P

So...you're going with the "dual end table subs" idea after all?? Glad I could help you spend some money.

BTW, I vote for a second LV12R as well...MUCH more of an upgrade than new heights, not even a close race.

Here is the plan as of now. Picked up a pair of Polk Audio T15s today to use as heights. $70. Going to move LV12R to immediate right of MLP ~3ft away. Will see if this helps response or hurts it due to the close proximity. Picked up 25ft long sub RCA cable (and a female to dual male splitter so I have it if I decided to run line in after all. Going to move the Yamaha Front Heights that I have now to the rear surrounds since the current rear surrounds are even further crappy than they are. If the Polks sound good - I'll snag another pair for rear surrounds.

What I mostly disagree with is making getting a second very nice sub for $600 MUCH more of a priority when he has $10/pair surrounds that could be vastly improved by spending $75.

I think they were comparing $600 for front heights vs. $600 for 2nd Sub. If I got 2 pairs of B&W 686s for heights and rears, it would have cost me $600. But Im taking the suggestion to just get the Polk T15s and see how I do. I don't think the sound content that comes out of the front height and rear surround channels warrants timbre matching expensive speakers.

Here is the plan as of now. Picked up a pair of Polk Audio T15s today to use as heights. $70. Going to move LV12R to immediate right of MLP ~3ft away. Will see if this helps response or hurts it due to the close proximity. Picked up 25ft long sub RCA cable (and a female to dual male splitter so I have it if I decided to run line in after all. Going to move the Yamaha Front Heights that I have now to the rear surrounds since the current rear surrounds are even further crappy than they are. If the Polks sound good - I'll snag another pair for rear surrounds.

I think they were comparing $600 for front heights vs. $600 for 2nd Sub. If I got 2 pairs of B&W 686s for heights and rears, it would have cost me $600. But Im taking the suggestion to just get the Polk T15s and see how I do. I don't think the sound content that comes out of the front height and rear surround channels warrants timbre matching expensive speakers.

I'm using Polk TL3s for surround in my bedroom setup with B&W 685 S2s and B&W HTM62 S2 center and they sound pretty good. I got the pair of TL3s for $203 at the Polk Audio eBay Store.

^^ I thought you ordered the V1800? I honestly think you should quickly grab that used FV15hp pair. I take this pair over the Cap1400 any day, especially when you could get the FV pair for the same price of a Cap1400, not because I am a Rythmik fan but think about it.

^^ I thought you ordered the V1800? I honestly think you should quickly grab that used FV15hp pair. I take this pair over the Cap1400 any day, especially when you could get the FV pair for the same price of a Cap1400, not because I am a Rythmik fan but think about it.

I havent made any decisions yet. Still weighing my options. I have the funds for dual F12s but now I will either put that towards dual FV15HP used, or single V1500, V1800, Cap1400 or another deal came up that I am considering as well.

I still havent gottent he return authorization yet. Sub has been boxed up for a week already.

I havent made any decisions yet. Still weighing my options. I have the funds for dual F12s but now I will either put that towards dual FV15HP used, or single V1500, V1800, Cap1400 or another deal came up that I am considering as well.

I still havent gottent he return authorization yet. Sub has been boxed up for a week already.

The dual fv15hps are your best option by a long shot. They have the best sound quality (duals/servo) and have the most output for the same price as your other options.

I haven't been following along closely, so don't know of any other constraints, but just price for performance, there is a clear choice here, IMO.

...I can only turn on the front heights OR the rear surrounds. I usually use the front heights - unless I am watching a movie known for a really good surround 7.1 mix - in which case I turn off the front heights and turn on the rear surrounds...

More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that

More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that

More info on how you actually DO this? I also have an older Yamaha amp that allows one OR the other but there is no "easy" way to switch between the two. I do have an old sonance speaker A-B switching box I could use but am wanting to avoid all that old-tech stuff so would not want to do that

On Yamaha you connect both and it switches automatically. You can choose priority=surround back/presence for Yamaha DSP modes. It automatically chooses SB for 7.1 sources. For 5.1 it will choose SB if you activate EX/ES/PLII. For DSP modes it will choose based on your priority setting.

I used to have the 1400. I have a 1800 and 2800 now and they all operate the same. It is well documented in the users manual.

Yes, there is a GUI… as archaic as it may be. The 2800 introduced the newer, more modern yammy GUI.

It has an RS-232 interface on the rear that I had been controlling with a software application called Cinemar (to control zones mostly). I use the remote for the HT aspects. I do have some on-screen capablities but those are mostly for YPAO rather than a daily interactive resource.

On Yamaha you connect both and it switches automatically. You can choose priority=surround back/precense for Yamaha DSP modes. It automatically chooses SB for 7.1 sources. For 5.1 it will choose SB if you activate EX/ES/PLII. For DSP modes it will choose based on your priority setting.

I used to have the 1400. I have a 1800 and 2800 now and they all operate the same. It is well documented in the users manual.

Yes, there is a GUI… as archaic as it may be. The 2800 introduced the newer, more modern yammy GUI.

Thanks for the insight. I believe I was concerned that if I connected the front prescence and the 7.1 rears at the same time I might unnecessarily introduce complications of reduced OHMs across those two separate sets of speakers (I think the Speakercraft inwalls were all 6-Ohm speakers).

I have to admit that mine was a B-Stock that did not come with a manual. At least I don't recall seeing one. Controlling the Yammy some 12-14 years ago when I first put it in place was a bit of a challenge at that point but that was mostly due to having to use (and create myself) the custom GUI interfaces at that time. I was a seasoned programmer (Lab Windows and others) and the Cinemar stuff was as close as I could get to that for controls. Worked out pretty well and I guess I could still use it if I wanted to kill more brain cells but at this point, I have more free cash and will likely pick up either a new, old stock 2050 (once I find one at a good price under $1K) or I'll just buy a new 2060 or 3060 based on hw many speakers I decide to eventually go with.

Google and you will also probably find the old RX-V1400/2400 AVS thread.

I sold mine when the PS3 came out and upgraded to the 1600. The 1800/2800 dropped THX cert and modes but the amplifiers are much higher quality from this point forward. I believe the RX-10x0 and higher are the newer equivalents (Aventage).

First one is speculative, but I'd imagine the upcoming FV25 would qualify. From there you go right into the JTR S2 and 4000ULF. A ghorn is the next logical choice, and I bet a DTS 10 would hang with it for most of the passband. But this being a Rythmik thread the debate should stop here; no reason to go OT.

There's no question the Mariana 24 is a beastly sub - and David is a first rate guy that I hope is wildly successful - but there are competitors to his subs. I'd make a wager he would be the first one to tell you that.

Technically, you were the first one to mention the many competitive offerings. I'm proud of my subs and definitely stand behind them but there are definitely many consumer options, with many different designs and focuses, and that was before I had any notion of Brian bringing out a servo 18" subwoofer. Kudos to him, I'm sure it's going to be a great subwoofer and I hope I get the opportunity to listen to it sometime.

Thanks for the insight. I believe I was concerned that if I connected the front prescence and the 7.1 rears at the same time I might unnecessarily introduce complications of reduced OHMs across those two separate sets of speakers (I think the Speakercraft inwalls were all 6-Ohm speakers).

I have to admit that mine was a B-Stock that did not come with a manual. At least I don't recall seeing one. Controlling the Yammy some 12-14 years ago when I first put it in place was a bit of a challenge at that point but that was mostly due to having to use (and create myself) the custom GUI interfaces at that time. I was a seasoned programmer (Lab Windows and others) and the Cinemar stuff was as close as I could get to that for controls. Worked out pretty well and I guess I could still use it if I wanted to kill more brain cells but at this point, I have more free cash and will likely pick up either a new, old stock 2050 (once I find one at a good price under $1K) or I'll just buy a new 2060 or 3060 based on hw many speakers I decide to eventually go with.

Sorry for the late response. It's kind of weird. The VSX-44 lets you run MCACC (EQ) on both the front height mode and surround back mode. You can change between the two modes in the menu under SP SYSTEM. However what I'm finding is that even though the manual explicitly says that if you have all 9 setup you should run MCACC, switch speaker system, and run again, when I do this is forgets the first MCACC run. If I switch speaker system say from front heights to rear surrounds, the MCACC is still for the front heights, so I have to rerun that. Once in a specific speaker system, options become available. Like using front heights system introduces the PLIIz mode while any other speaker system mode won't ever show that. I'm still a bit confused as even in Speaker system front height mode, I still get option to enable surround backs, they just don't play anything. I've asked in the VSX -44 thread about this and have never gotten an answer.

Sorry don't want to go too far off topic but I just figured it out!! After so long I took a hard look and realized all the speakers that are the same between the two speaker systems (the core 5.1) stay the same between the two for distance and level. The only ones that change, obviously, are the ones being added, either front heights or rear surrounds. The reason the rear surrounds are an option in speaker set selection when in surr back mode and vice versa is so you don't have to go back in the settings and switch it each time! You just leave it to always have all 9 as yes and when you switch the speaker system it knows what to do, so there really is no need to run MCACC each time. There's even a button on the remote to switch between rear surrounds and front heights. I'm a happy dude right now. Been chewing on this for months without an answer lol.