Yes they purportedly are. I think the point is that her childhood experiences shaped her adult life in a way that made her both insecure and vulnerable. Perhaps her intelligence helped her cope a bit but ultimately failed to save her.

I've always felt that everything we are or will be is within us at birth and what we become is the sum total of the experiences we have and the people we meet. We'll all be different tomorrow becaue of what we experience today.

Quoting Diana3316:

Roc~ Are they both true???

Quoting Diana3316:

Roc~ Are they both true???

Yes they purportedly are. I think the point is that her childhood experiences shaped her adult life in a way that made her both insecure and vulnerable. Perhaps her intelligence helped her cope a bit but ultimately failed to save her.

I've always felt that everything we are or will be is within us at birth and what we become is the sum total of the experiences we have and the people we meet. We'll all be different tomorrow becaue of what we experience today.

Well, to continue talking about that friend of mine I was talking about. I'll try much hard to be kind talking about her.

OK, I think I got how to talk about it now.

There's this men's psychology guru called Dr Paul, and he talks about MindOS, a manual for the male brain for nerds like me. In it he describes a person's well-being as a circle filled with treasure. My friend, though I love her in a way, steals the treasure, breaks the boundaries, and sometimes even blames me for it. I keep away a bunch now, and only see her once in a while. She's been my friend for a long time, too. There's other things I think about, but you can see why I seem so depressed, pessimistic, and defensive. I've learned that behavior.

So you can take that as an example of what happens when a man tries to take care of a "damaged" woman.

Quoting Diana3316:

So....where does that leave us????

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

Quoting Diana3316:

So....where does that leave us????

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

Well, to continue talking about that friend of mine I was talking about. I'll try much hard to be kind talking about her.

OK, I think I got how to talk about it now.

There's this men's psychology guru called Dr Paul, and he talks about MindOS, a manual for the male brain for nerds like me. In it he describes a person's well-being as a circle filled with treasure. My friend, though I love her in a way, steals the treasure, breaks the boundaries, and sometimes even blames me for it. I keep away a bunch now, and only see her once in a while. She's been my friend for a long time, too. There's other things I think about, but you can see why I seem so depressed, pessimistic, and defensive. I've learned that behavior.

So you can take that as an example of what happens when a man tries to take care of a "damaged" woman.

@ Sarah, well said ! You have a much better way of saying things than I do. LOL

Quoting MissMonteCarlo:

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Sarah :-)

Quoting MissMonteCarlo:

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Sarah :-)

@ Sarah, well said ! You have a much better way of saying things than I do. LOL

Being vulnerable in the sense we mean here does not mean incapable. Sometimes she is only vulnerable because she is not loved. Once that is fixed she is fine. She can take care of herself, her man, her children everything when she has someone she cares about. And she will. Don't get in her way if her man is hurting.

RMac

Quoting rmac22:

Being vulnerable in the sense we mean here does not mean incapable. Sometimes she is only vulnerable because she is not loved. Once that is fixed she is fine. She can take care of herself, her man, her children everything when she has someone she cares about. And she will. Don't get in her way if her man is hurting.

Being vulnerable in the sense we mean here does not mean incapable. Sometimes she is only vulnerable because she is not loved. Once that is fixed she is fine. She can take care of herself, her man, her children everything when she has someone she cares about. And she will. Don't get in her way if her man is hurting.

RMac

Quoting Diana3316:

So....where does that leave us????

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

Quoting Diana3316:

So....where does that leave us????

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

Being vulnerable in the sense we mean here does not mean incapable. Sometimes she is only vulnerable because she is not loved. Once that is fixed she is fine. She can take care of herself, her man, her children everything when she has someone she cares about. And she will. Don't get in her way if her man is hurting.

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

So....where does that leave us????

For me...I have to wonder what happens to all those wonderful men who have a tender and compassionate heart when they become attracted/fall in love with a vulnerable woman. Initially their need to feel masculine and protective is satisfied.....but who takes care of them if/when they falter? What happens when there is strength on only one side of the team? Seems like eventually that team will lose the game.

Of course, I'm sure that goes both ways as well. Like when a woman falls in love with a damaged man....thinking she can 'fix it'.

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Sarah :-)

I think you did it Sarah!!

"Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but not asking for help. Others seek to help you."

That describes the "Marilyn-factor" perfectly, I think. Due to her childhood....she was profoundly insecure. Her family was disrupted, she was shuffled around, sexually victimized, not loved, not cared for ....not protected. People could sense how badly she had been hurt...how badly she had been damaged.....and wanted to make it better. And it wasn't just men....even women also felt (still do) tremendous empathy for this beautiful mess.

Thank you very much for helping us to better understand this phenomenon.

Quoting MissMonteCarlo:

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Sarah :-)

I think you did it Sarah!!

"Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but not asking for help. Others seek to help you."

That describes the "Marilyn-factor" perfectly, I think. Due to her childhood....she was profoundly insecure. Her family was disrupted, she was shuffled around, sexually victimized, not loved, not cared for ....not protected. People could sense how badly she had been hurt...how badly she had been damaged.....and wanted to make it better. And it wasn't just men....even women also felt (still do) tremendous empathy for this beautiful mess.

Thank you very much for helping us to better understand this phenomenon.

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Sarah :-)

I think some men like to look after women. I guess that is an evolutionary motion really. Vulnerability and neediness are different things. To be needy is to be demanding and always wanting. Whereas vulnerable is being in a position whereby you are not secure but are not asking for help. Others seek to help you.

Either trait is not a good foundation for a successful relationship. As a rule I don't enter a relationship unless I feel on top form. I did let my guard down once with a guy after my dad had died which was not a smart decision. Thought he was a nice guy but he wasn't. So lesson learned. I only let people enter my life when I'm emotionally strong.

Intimidated by a certain type? No. My mother was valedictorian from Georgetown University, so being in the presence of a strong, accomplished woman seems very normal to me. Being impressed to the point of intimidation by a single attribute - like beauty, fame or some such - prior to having a more complete picture of the total person seems a little out of balance to me.

I cant speak for others, but needy is a big turn-off for me. I prefer someone who feels complete and wants to contribute to the partnership as opposed to someone looking to benefit from it. Vulnerable is much different in that vulnerability isnt seeking a solution to some unmet need from the other person.

Intimidated by a certain type? No. My mother was valedictorian from Georgetown University, so being in the presence of a strong, accomplished woman seems very normal to me. Being impressed to the point of intimidation by a single attribute - like beauty, fame or some such - prior to having a more complete picture of the total person seems a little out of balance to me.

I cant speak for others, but needy is a big turn-off for me. I prefer someone who feels complete and wants to contribute to the partnership as opposed to someone looking to benefit from it. Vulnerable is much different in that vulnerability isnt seeking a solution to some unmet need from the other person.

With my all do respect to the panels. I do not have the liberty to talk about all women but myself. i can identify with every words the legend MM expressd about herself. Women are complex emotions, that has been documented in all scientific literatures. Our hormones can dictate our actions and reactions. Nonetheless with the unpredictable hormones, yet we are the physicians, scientists, judges, actress, painters. We have the ability to see multiple shades of Color white.

Women are worriers in their own rights.

Thanks for allowing me to express my modest opinion. And I truly appreciate the topic

Maha

happy new year, more blessing to the universe and mankind

With my all do respect to the panels. I do not have the liberty to talk about all women but myself. i can identify with every words the legend MM expressd about herself. Women are complex emotions, that has been documented in all scientific literatures. Our hormones can dictate our actions and reactions. Nonetheless with the unpredictable hormones, yet we are the physicians, scientists, judges, actress, painters. We have the ability to see multiple shades of Color white.

Women are worriers in their own rights.

Thanks for allowing me to express my modest opinion. And I truly appreciate the topic

Marilyn Monroe was a hot, sexy, famous actress (though maybe not that talented, let's not get into that) so, let's say she's like Nicole Kidman or Angelina Jolie or some famous actress. So basically they wanted her 'cause she was famous and she had a little extra sizzle in the way she acted toward men. And from this picture I'm including, she seemed to genuinely enjoy her suitors as well. What more can a guy ask for?

(The answer is a mature, stable relationship based on compatibility rather than attractiveness and this "neediness" we're trying to define)

Quoting Diana3316:

NGl~

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

Quoting Diana3316:

NGl~

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

OK, I might have a better handle on this question now.

Marilyn Monroe was a hot, sexy, famous actress (though maybe not that talented, let's not get into that) so, let's say she's like Nicole Kidman or Angelina Jolie or some famous actress. So basically they wanted her 'cause she was famous and she had a little extra sizzle in the way she acted toward men. And from this picture I'm including, she seemed to genuinely enjoy her suitors as well. What more can a guy ask for?

(The answer is a mature, stable relationship based on compatibility rather than attractiveness and this "neediness" we're trying to define)

I wasn't trying to attack you, I thought you were asking a psychology question, not that you wanted to be like Marilyn Monroe. To go forward, I'll take your description of Marilyn Monroe's life. If you do want to be like Marilyn Monroe, I think you identify more with the successful woman aspect than emotionally troubled woman with a drug problem. So if you agree with that, I don't think there's a problem at all.

I take the situation differently than you.

I take it like the movie "All About Eve" or some other stories of Playboy models whose whole life was wrapped up in being a model or famous, but had problems in their real life.

That's not what you seem to be talking about though.

YES, men enjoy women being vulnerable so that they can take care of them and feel good doing so. I don't think you should be vulnerable on purpose, but it is good to know men like to do things for women naturally.

Needy is different, it's like my friend I shared about below and someone else talked about below. There's vulnerable, and there's needy. Needy sucks you dry. Vulnerability can, if used properly, bring a couple together.

I wish this whole question was better formulated.

Quoting Diana3316:

Quoting Tivo:“On the other hand, being like Marilyn Monroe and quoting from her is a red flag. If you use that to describe yourself, you're basically putting it out there that you are not relationship material, and even worse, you're proud of it enough to tell people and think you're like Marilyn Monroe. That is a bad, bad sign.”

**************

Ok Tivo, I’ll give you credit for trying to explain what you were trying to say with the other comment, but I have to say you have me even more baffled than before.

What makes you think my original post had anything to do with me and/or a comparison of myself as “being like Marilyn Monroe”?Since you call it a “red flag”, I am assuming you have a negative opinion of Ms Monroe. While you are more than entitled to have this opinion…..my self image was not the topic of the blog. But if you would like to start a blog about that and whether or not I'm relationship material.....we can. :)) *wink*

Finally, although I am not an expert on MM’s life, she is a person of fascination and admiration for not only me but much of the world.Using her intellect, hard work and physical gifts, she pulled herself off some mid-western farm as a naïve little girl, to become one of the world’s biggest and best known Movie Stars of the era, including becoming quite wealthy in her own right.She didn’t have any parents to help her…..SHE did it.While it may be true she was emotionally troubled, I think it likely was partly due to a prescription drug addiction that was initiated and promoted by her employers, followed by a forced late term abortion mandated by those same employers who did not want their commodity to reduce in value due to a baby. Coupled with being profoundly spoiled and catered to, with little psychological support/therapy/knowledge….it isn’t surprising her life was disturbed.It’s actually a tragic story, which was not uncommon to many other starlets for that time.

Btw, I personally don’t think her quote means, "I need a man that can comfort me in bad times."I think it means that she had the confidence and feelings of self-worth to think she deserved a man who would not only love her for her good attributes, but would also be understanding, tolerant and forgiving of her imperfections.

Quoting Diana3316:

Quoting Tivo:“On the other hand, being like Marilyn Monroe and quoting from her is a red flag. If you use that to describe yourself, you're basically putting it out there that you are not relationship material, and even worse, you're proud of it enough to tell people and think you're like Marilyn Monroe. That is a bad, bad sign.”

**************

Ok Tivo, I’ll give you credit for trying to explain what you were trying to say with the other comment, but I have to say you have me even more baffled than before.

What makes you think my original post had anything to do with me and/or a comparison of myself as “being like Marilyn Monroe”?Since you call it a “red flag”, I am assuming you have a negative opinion of Ms Monroe. While you are more than entitled to have this opinion…..my self image was not the topic of the blog. But if you would like to start a blog about that and whether or not I'm relationship material.....we can. :)) *wink*

Finally, although I am not an expert on MM’s life, she is a person of fascination and admiration for not only me but much of the world.Using her intellect, hard work and physical gifts, she pulled herself off some mid-western farm as a naïve little girl, to become one of the world’s biggest and best known Movie Stars of the era, including becoming quite wealthy in her own right.She didn’t have any parents to help her…..SHE did it.While it may be true she was emotionally troubled, I think it likely was partly due to a prescription drug addiction that was initiated and promoted by her employers, followed by a forced late term abortion mandated by those same employers who did not want their commodity to reduce in value due to a baby. Coupled with being profoundly spoiled and catered to, with little psychological support/therapy/knowledge….it isn’t surprising her life was disturbed.It’s actually a tragic story, which was not uncommon to many other starlets for that time.

Btw, I personally don’t think her quote means, "I need a man that can comfort me in bad times."I think it means that she had the confidence and feelings of self-worth to think she deserved a man who would not only love her for her good attributes, but would also be understanding, tolerant and forgiving of her imperfections.

I wasn't trying to attack you, I thought you were asking a psychology question, not that you wanted to be like Marilyn Monroe. To go forward, I'll take your description of Marilyn Monroe's life. If you do want to be like Marilyn Monroe, I think you identify more with the successful woman aspect than emotionally troubled woman with a drug problem. So if you agree with that, I don't think there's a problem at all.

I take the situation differently than you.

I take it like the movie "All About Eve" or some other stories of Playboy models whose whole life was wrapped up in being a model or famous, but had problems in their real life.

That's not what you seem to be talking about though.

YES, men enjoy women being vulnerable so that they can take care of them and feel good doing so. I don't think you should be vulnerable on purpose, but it is good to know men like to do things for women naturally.

Needy is different, it's like my friend I shared about below and someone else talked about below. There's vulnerable, and there's needy. Needy sucks you dry. Vulnerability can, if used properly, bring a couple together.

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

@Diana, Ok I take a shot and try to explain what they mean to me.

Needy, they need your money, your time or both,, alot of it. Usually because they are not financially responsible. Most (not all so don't jump me) I've met spend way more than they make. I also find them to be extremely insecure so they need tons of your time.

Vulnerable, I usually relate this to emotions. I have seen a lot of women (men too) who jump from one relationship to another, because they are afraid to be alone or afraid to be single. Hence the vulnerability. Men can really pull the wool over on them. You hear it all the time here. The hit and run. I can't figure out why he left, we went out, had a great time, I slept with him, then he never called me again. Vulnerable !

Yes, I want neither of these types of women. They don't "Intimidate" me at all, in fact I feel kind of sorry for them. I don't care how beautiful they are,, how much money they have, whatever. Marilyn was both needy and vulnerable IMHO, she slept with very powerful Married men. That shows me she lacked in a couple different departments. When you are what some people called a beautiful sex symbol and your rich,,but you sleep with Married Men,,you have tons of issues. again IMHO

So to go back to your original question, LOL. I think of myself as a man of confidence, security and substance, so I have yet to be intimidated by anyone. I might get excited, maybe nervous, whatever you want to call it when I've met some fairly successful/famous men and women, but after a few minutes of talking to them it was all good. I think it was more excitement than anything.

so Diana, I hope this clear up my views anyhow ! LOL

Quoting Diana3316:

NGl~

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

@Diana, Ok I take a shot and try to explain what they mean to me.

Needy, they need your money, your time or both,, alot of it. Usually because they are not financially responsible. Most (not all so don't jump me) I've met spend way more than they make. I also find them to be extremely insecure so they need tons of your time.

Vulnerable, I usually relate this to emotions. I have seen a lot of women (men too) who jump from one relationship to another, because they are afraid to be alone or afraid to be single. Hence the vulnerability. Men can really pull the wool over on them. You hear it all the time here. The hit and run. I can't figure out why he left, we went out, had a great time, I slept with him, then he never called me again. Vulnerable !

Yes, I want neither of these types of women. They don't "Intimidate" me at all, in fact I feel kind of sorry for them. I don't care how beautiful they are,, how much money they have, whatever. Marilyn was both needy and vulnerable IMHO, she slept with very powerful Married men. That shows me she lacked in a couple different departments. When you are what some people called a beautiful sex symbol and your rich,,but you sleep with Married Men,,you have tons of issues. again IMHO

So to go back to your original question, LOL. I think of myself as a man of confidence, security and substance, so I have yet to be intimidated by anyone. I might get excited, maybe nervous, whatever you want to call it when I've met some fairly successful/famous men and women, but after a few minutes of talking to them it was all good. I think it was more excitement than anything.

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

Quoting NGL2011:

@ diana, I guess maybe you should tell me the difference between the 2,,(needy and vulnerable) because to me both can be taken advantage of.

as for Intimidation, way to much to say on this topic ! LOL

Quoting NGL2011:

@ diana, I guess maybe you should tell me the difference between the 2,,(needy and vulnerable) because to me both can be taken advantage of.

as for Intimidation, way to much to say on this topic ! LOL

NGl~

I have NO idea! Once again I am baffled and trying hard to understand it. This was a serious poll in an effort to understand the difference and a quest to understand men's desire and seemingly attraction for the "Marilyn-factor". She was a successful woman with money of her own....yet men wanted to take care of her.

It seems curious that men don't seem to be able to put a finger on the difference either.....and you never hear them say, "No vulnerable women PLEASE!!"

So Novuliett, do you think men love bitches? When it comes to someone they would want long-term? What I hear from men who are divorced is that no, they don't like that type although I think initially the more of a bitch you are, the more intriguing you seem to be. I refuse to play games myself.

Quoting NovemberJuliett:

I have found the answer!!!...

Quoting NovemberJuliett:

I have found the answer!!!...

So Novuliett, do you think men love bitches? When it comes to someone they would want long-term? What I hear from men who are divorced is that no, they don't like that type although I think initially the more of a bitch you are, the more intriguing you seem to be. I refuse to play games myself.