McIntyre on the Penn State fiasco

Steve McIntyre writes about what many of us have been thinking about Penn State’s failures at investigating its own, such as the appearance of a whitewash investigation done about Dr. Michael Mann and Climategate. He writes:

On the same day that Nature published yet another editorial repudiating public examination of the conduct of academic institutions, Penn State President Graham Spanier was fired from his $813,000/year job for failing to ensure that a proper investigation was carried out in respect to pedophilia allegations in Penn State’s hugely profitable football program. The story is receiving massive coverage in North America because the iconic Penn State football coach, Joe Paterno, was also fired today.

CA readers are aware of Spanier’s failure to ensure proper investigation of Climategate emails and his untrue puffs about the ineffective Penn State Inquiry Committee, reported at CA here and by the the Penn State Collegian as follows:

…

Spanier was fired not because of any personal role in the Sandusky football scandal, but because of negligence on his part in ensuring that the allegations were properly investigated. This was not the only case in which Spanier failed to ensure proper investigation of misconduct allegations. As noted above, Spanier had falsely reported to the Penn State trustees and the public that the Penn State Inquiry Committee had properly interviewed critics and had examined the Climategate documents and issues “from all sides”.

One has to wonder how they explained to Spanier why he was being fired.

“Look buddy, the investigation into Mann was one thing, this is different. Mann is just doing climate research. So maybe he faked the results and you buried it, so what. Whose gonna care? So they tax fossil fuel until old people can’t afford it and freeze to death and poor people die of hunger because they can’t afford food anymore, yeah, that could be bad for a lot of people. But this is different. You tarnished the reputation of our football team. we’ve got no choice but to fire your sorry *ss. I mean, its FOOTBALL! How stupid are you? Get out, and take this $3 million severance package with you, you pr**k.”

I agree with Steve’s theme. If the Penn State academic and police officials would overlook something as evil as pedophilia for the sake of money, what possible scruples could they have had that would prevent them from doing the same for Mann’s rather petty crimes.

The saga of the incompetent and unethical continues. I can only imagine their will be more of these types of scandals on the warmista lefties side – this is precisely what they build with their post normal garbage science and their refusal to abide any scientific or moral principals whatsoever. Morally bankrupt disgusting scumbags. I wouldn’t take an education from Penn St if they offered to pay me. Sad, I used to consider them to be a good school.

It seems in both cases (that we know of so far) President Spanier was trying to protect Penn State’s revenue stream with his “internal investigations”, or lack thereof. Dang, and here I thought that our hallowed universities were above such conflicts of interest. /sarc

I hate to sound so crude, but after covering up the rape of a minor in your locker rooms, what’s whitewashing an investigation into scientific papers that would bore the eyelids off of most of the people who might try to read them?

Addendum, if you are thinking about doing a Vet’s day post, this is what our boys fight to protect, so well put in this piece:

Why should there being any association between commonly-accused abuses in college
big-money athletics, and accused-abuses of people having low relationship with with
big-money college athletics?

Suppose a star men’s football player or a star men’s basketball player commits a rape, and the
college/U. responds with “whitewashing”. I find that making the news frequently enough – what
does that have to do with colleges/universities having leftwing bias in global warming issues?
Is it not mostly left-wingers complaining more about colleges/universities whitewashing their rapists on big-money sports teams?

For that matter, Penn State U. has its main campus in the ~85% of Pennsylvania land area that gets described as being “like Alabama” or “more like Alabama than Alabama is”.

Anyhoo, I seem to think that college/U. athletics abuses in big-money sports has low correlation
with abuses typically-done by those of opposing ideology on the right-left political spectrum.
Not that I am claiming so-far that the correlation is outright negative – merely low, due to some
colleges / universities tolerating whatever-brings-in-the-money from all-available-sources “by any means necessary”.

I suppose the analogy is close enough.
I have been wondering for 9 years what the Warmists will say because the models have proven so disasterly wrong. Costing literally hundreds of billions of dollars.
To my shock, they accuse those who point out the discrepancies liars and pretend that the models were correct.

Two of Graham Spanier’s top administators Tim Curley and Gary Schultz now face perjury charges, which in a way is lucky for Spanier since Curley testified that he filled Spanier in on what Sandusky did and on the restrictions imposed on Sandusky. But Mann-defender Spanier is now a bum for all to see, and, in further detriment to Mann’s situation, Penn State will be facing civil lawsuits for anywhere from $100 million to a quarter billion dollars and will not have so much energy and funding to keep going to the mat for Mann’s supposed right to opacity.

Penn State’s insane and Spanier-embraced defense of Mann as being too much of a profit center to do wrong was a sign of worse waiting to come to light. McIntyre is totally right to frame Penn State’s operative rationale for covering up for Sandusky and Paterno in the same terms.

Doug in Seattle says:
November 10, 2011 at 9:59 pm
I agree with Steve’s theme. If the Penn State academic and police officials would overlook something as evil as pedophilia for the sake of money, what possible scruples could they have had that would prevent them from doing the same for Mann’s rather petty crimes.

To the contrary, the scope of Mann’s crime is the thing. As the basis of all of the global warming belief is the proposition that “Humans are a detrimental virus infesting the world”.
When Mann fakes graphs to prop up that position he is launching Sandusky’s boat.
He’s teaching that it’s not a crime to screw up kids lives, after all they are a blight on the world!

Mann’s crime is on another level than pedo. He’s screwing the whole society.

Yes, I have been thinking about Prof. Mann in conjunction with this new scandal, but not just because of the Climategate whitewash by Penn State. The Department of Education is now looking into the matter, because the failure to report child abuse and the systemic cover-up of same violates so many federal laws and regulations, not only those that are part of the grant agreements that Penn State signed. Everyone who gets any kind of Federal money is subject to these rules, particularly when university facilities are used in the course of these violations. Failure to comply could mean loss, a massive loss, of future grant funds in their entirety, and could also result in Penn State having to give back grant money received over the past 12 years, if not further. How likely is that? It’s going to take long enough to investigate that if a GOP administration is overseeing things when the time comes, Prof. Mann and all his fellows could be in for a world of hurt along with Penn State.

The Penn State mess is bad; but Mann didn’t start there. Here in Virginia we are witnessing the brazen and open cover-up by the University of Virginia in spite of the best efforts of Ken Cuccinelli, our excellent Attorney General. I await the day of some firings and a good housecleaning at UVA. Misuse of public funds is a crime, and Cuccinelli is absolutely right to go after it, regardless of where it occurs. UVA’s resistance is strictly illegal, and all the talk of “academic freedom” is smoke blown into the eyes of the public.

John F. Hultquist says:
November 10, 2011 at 10:13 pm
…………….Dream on if you expect much notice of the climate issue when a powerful football story is happening.
————————–
1. Dr. Mann’s documented words actions with the “Team” were not investigated.
2. Dr. Mann ( with univ support) is in the middle of a law suit against Dr Ball.
3. Dr. Mann is being protected from FOIA requests and supported by Penn State administration and their resources and has not given all of the requested documents.
Therefore, I believe Penn State admin has only so much money and so many attorneys to expend. They will have a tough time covering their own behinds with the football scandal without worrying about Professor Mann and protecting publicly owned emails, data, computer code, etc. from FOIA requests.
The first step is for Dr. Mann, Univ of Penn and Univ of VA to demonstrate their honesty, follow the law concerning FOIA requests and provide these documents.

John Hultquist: what you said. This will overshadow the Mann story, which is “old and cold” (so to speak). But the housecleaning has only begun. Give it a few months and maybe, with some well-timed nudges, an independent investigator may want to redefine this as a criminal enterprise that ran a front operation as a university.

When human nature is so perverse that numerous parties can ignore a child predator in their midst when the alternative would harm to their vested economic interests, what chance does anyone think they have of extracting possibly damning evidence of mere scientific fraud or misbehavior?

Of course Penn State will rally around one of its faculty, particularly when his work supports a strongly held political belief. But equating the Mann cover-up to the cover-up of the rape of a 10-year-old (and quite possibly other activities) is a bit of a stretch.

At this point I think originally PSU admin believed Mann did good research and was being persecuted by a bunch of wackos. They tried to protect him and that research by conducting a weak investigation and ignoring the noise.
I give my kid 200 bucks to buy a pair of shoes I want to see the shoes and I want the receipt.
I believe when Mann joined the university and took money from taxpayers he agreed to the rules.
When the university accepted taxpayer money they agreed to the rules.
I looks like we have to treat the scientists, academia and the university admin like kids.
Follow the rules………give me the receipt.
I don’t care how much money Mann or any university thinks they lose because some other scientist might have access to their research, I want no more of the ‘why should I give you my data when you’ll just try to prove it wrong’ attitude.
The law says it’s our data and we want it.

…….Failure to comply could mean loss, a massive loss, of future grant funds in their entirety, and could also result in Penn State having to give back grant money received over the past 12 years, if not further. How likely is that? It’s going to take long enough to investigate that if a GOP administration is overseeing things when the time comes, Prof. Mann and all his fellows could be in for a world of hurt along with Penn State.
__________________________________________
Don’t hold your breath.

The Democrats and Republicans scratch each others backs behind the scenes. Dems vs Reps is just a Dog & Pony show for the Great Unwashed. The real divide is the wealthy elite vs us peasants.

Do you really think “Socialism” or “Progressivism” could have taken over our schools and media without the benediction of the wealthy who OWN the media and FUND our Universities and politicians????

The biggest cover-up applies to the idea that the Corporate and Banking CEOs are in favor of Capitalism and opposed to Socialism. The truth is exactly the opposite. Socialism promotes government control over everything and that is a very good business strategy for those who control the government laws and bureaucracies – the banking & Corporate CEOs. What we are actually seeing is not “Socialism” but “Neo-Corporatism” using the mask of “Socialism” to tighten control without the “Useful Idiots” wising up to who is actually pulling their strings (and funding their pet NGOs).

If the Republicans swept Clinton’s getting campaign funds from China under the rug when China was considered an “Enemy” of the USA then Mann’s minor indiscretions will be buried too.

That’s out of order. We may not like Dr Mann much, but slurs like that, even in jest, are simply not on!

No jests intended, and no slurs intended, either. But it is spot on! In the criminal realm, it’s called “modus operandi”–the methodology employed or adopted to commit a crime, which is typically consistent within organized crime regardless of the crime, and Penn State appears about as organized in its criminal behavior as the Mafia. Add to that “opportunity” and “motive” and we can see consistent means or psyche driving their criminal behavior–not in just one area, but in several.

After the football sex crime coverup (which was going on before Mann’s coverup and whitewash, by the way), you didn’t really expect the powers-that-be at Penn State to go after something as equally heineous as genocide-promoting CAGW policy supported by Mann, did you?

No, you’re right; they never would–that would be inconsistent. There was way, way too much money involved–in “climsci” grants just like there was in their football program.

Spanier was fired not because of any personal role in the Sandusky football scandal, but because of negligence on his part in ensuring that the allegations were properly investigated. This was not the only case in which Spanier failed to ensure proper investigation of misconduct allegations.

Yeah, I’m sure there were a lot of us who thought something along this line.

Speaking of timing, it might be a good idea to hit PSU with a few FOIAs for info relating to Michael Mann. I think at this point, they want the least amount of bad publicity about stonewalling a search for truth.

Nah, Spanier is a perfectly normal corporate executive. His responses to everything are perfectly standard lawyered-up responses. His instinct is to keep the money coming in at all costs.

Drawing the analogy won’t help. Our media, courts and other institutions will NEVER be worried about bad science that BRINGS IN MILLIONS IN GRANTS, and will NEVER fire anyone for bad science that BRINGS IN MILLIONS IN GRANTS. They are firing executives in this case because the exposed bad sex threatens to STOP the flow of MILLIONS IN ALUMNI CONTRIBUTIONS.

“As both sides argue about whether the messages should ultimately be made public, the two legal decisions come as welcome news to those (including this journal) who believe that access to personal correspondence is a freedom too far.”

The specious comment above shows the absurdity of Nature magazine. No one is asking for personal correspondance what is being requested is access to public records, ie the emails Mann produced while working as a public servant.

“It seems in both cases (that we know of so far) President Spanier was trying to protect Penn State’s revenue stream with his “internal investigations”, or lack thereof. Dang, and here I thought that our hallowed universities were above such conflicts of interest. /sarc”

I think Penn should argue the merits of protecting finances and reputation, once again, just as for FOI requests.
They could have a Penn State official oversee what gets admitted to court.

Another instance of how integrity and grant funding have now almost become mutually exclusive.

It is definitely over the top to make an analogy between the overlooking of a heinous crime like paedophile rape and the distorted workings of a disreputable ‘scientist’.

Nevertheless, both the individuals involved clearly deserve our deepest condemnation and contempt. Also, anyone who is in any way party to the actions of either of these individuals being ignored/whitewashed should as a minimum face dismissal from their position.

Although there appears to be a pattern here, comparing crimes against children and the cover-up of those crimes is magnitudes worse than anything Mann is alleged to have done.

Personally, I believe Mann engaged in academic fraud by conspiring to cover up problems with his hockey stick and deny skeptics and detractors the right to have their scientific criticisms published. But it also occurs to me that perhaps Mann is more of a bad scientist than an outright fraud or charlatan.

Let’s also don’t forget that college football is big business. It’s a money-maker for the big schools. When was the last time tens of thousands of people showed up in person to watch an academic debate? How big are the network sports contracts to broadcast algebra lectures?

Bob says:
November 11, 2011 at 4:31 am
Of course Penn State will rally around one of its faculty, particularly when his work supports a strongly held political belief. But equating the Mann cover-up to the cover-up of the rape of a 10-year-old (and quite possibly other activities) is a bit of a stretch.

I cannot agree with you entirely, although I take the point you are making. However, I do not believe that lying for a noble cause, (alleged or otherwise), is any better than just lying, it is still lying when all said & done! :-)

Let’s also don’t forget that college climate science is big business. It’s a money-maker for the big schools. When was the last time tens of thousands of people showed up in person to sign international agreements on football ? How big are the network broadcasts of football practice ?

McQueary got the football and handed it off to Paterno who quickly lateraled to Curley who tucked the ball in to hide it and kept running. As the coach, Spanier had his back to the field discussing the next game.

The comparison being made is not between the two circumstances – one being a crime the other not – but the chronic failure of the administration to properly handle the two circumstances. They are serially inept.

Why things can be talked about together is because both circumstances occur under the same Top Brass watch.

If you know your employer is going to go to bat for you and dismiss or suppress investigation – as evidenced by the long term official reaction to information about the sex assaults – then I bet one can feel very safe in stonewalling some paltry citizen request for “private emails”.

I guess in defense for Sandusky, one might plead that those were “private moments” and his expectation of the university would be that they be kept private.

It just depends on the skilfulness applied to words and concepts, in order to arrive at a plausibly deniable.statement.

We’re here to talk about science. Criticise Dr Mann’s science as much as you like. Question his honesty, if you feel the need. But senseless slurs with no supporting evidence do much more harm than good. Sure, some of the warmists say horrible things — but we don’t want to be like that.

There are plenty of serious allegations against Dr Mann that we can discuss. Creating silly ones serves no point.

I disagree with the insistence that the two actions should not be compared due to some perceived seriousness of one crime versus another. Victimizing a child in the manner presumed at this point is horrific, anyone can agree with that. However if the actions of one man in altering the scientific truth as has been put forward by the press alters the direction of humanity, and the conclusions shown end up in fact being untrue, is that not a far far worse crime against humanity? In one case, a few people were terribly scarred for life. In another, whole nations may have their economies trashed. Which is the greater evil? Does it even matter?

Scientists are entrusted with being holders of universal truth. If they betray this trust they are essentially lying to humanity and that has tremendous consequences. These men (as we know) colluded to conceal truth from the public, that truth was their own uncertainty in their own conclusions. They continue to this day to work together to conceal their uncertainty in their bold conclusions.

Football might be the glamorous side of a university, but it’s not what supplies a society with its future.

Child abuse is a terrible crime that destroys lives utterly, but a single scandal of it is not the same as coercing an entire species of sentient beings into believing a lie.

IMHO, there is an imbalance in the crimes, Mann’s direct actions were not comparable, but the effects of them were likely far worse than a pedo scandal.

Let’s get it understood that I am thoroughly disgusted with the way in which the Pennsylvania State University (PSU) trustees fired head coach Joe Paterno.

Not the fact that they did it. The expression is “sh-t scraping,” and it’s entirely too common a practice to be worthy of comment. But the way they carried out the termination – sending a messenger after the close of business hours with a memo directing him to call the Board and then telling him “You’re fired!” over the telephone instead of even doing the deed in a face-to-face meeting conducted in the light of day….

Gawd. For that alone, every member of the Board of Trustees should immediately and uncategorically resign. Probably enter some equivalent of the Witness Protection Program.

The proper way to “sh-t scrape” Joe Paterno off their institutional shoes – if that were really needful – was to bring him in the next day and ask him to resign immediately and without notice “or else we’re going to fire you and call campus security to walk you out of your office.”

Joe Paterno almost certainly would’ve seen the sense in retiring “voluntarily, for the good of the University” (all indications are that he’s going to continue conducting himself in public and in private with that priority in mind), and though it would certainly have proven an unpopular decision on the part of the Board of Trustees, the “sh-t scraping” wouldn’t have kindled the enraged riots that swept through the campus and the town that night.

On the other hand, flensing President Graham Spanier was nothing more than that malfeasantly irresponsible and massively overpaid Empty Suit has deserved for more than a decade.

Forget the “golden parachute” bit. Hand him an anvil and drop him into the deepest water you can find in Centre County. Then tell the student body about that decision.

No riots. Just a big crowd of kids gathered along the shoreline to watch the bubbles coming up.

Mann and the defenders are fond of saying that he has been cleared by 7 separate investigations. This is not true. There has been only one investigation of Mann’s conduct in the Climategate affair — that conducted by Penn State. Now, because of this horrendous pedophilia incident, Penn State will forevermore be known as Cover-up U. So Mann’s principle argument is no longer available to him.

I’d certainly think that the exposed culture of ‘image first’ at Penn State University warrants another look into the Mann investigation. Consider that even after the firing, the GA that walked in on the situation while it was occurring and walked away, McQueary, continues to work for the University as the wide receiver’s coach. I read through the disgusting account of events in the grand jury report, and this individual walked in on the situation and, as stated in the report, both individuals saw him. I cannot begin to imagine how disheartening it was to that boy when McQueary just left. If Paterno was worthy of firing for not doing more, McQueary definitely was worthy of termination for the same reason. This University, it seems, cannot be trusted to police its own at all and the continued employment of McQueary is a sad testimony to their incompetence.

University of Pennsylvania, Class of ’76 says:
November 11, 2011 at 4:04 am

Chuck Nolan, this happened at PENN STATE, not UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA!
__________________________
It does not matter BOTH universities will get tarred with the same brush as will, to a lesser extend, other universities.

“….the brazen and open cover-up by the University of Virginia in spite of the best efforts of Ken Cuccinelli,…” makes it pretty darn obvious that Ivory Towers think they are above the law and can do as they please. This is not going to go over well with the tax payers footing the bill for all the grant money.

The accumulating DIRT starting with Climategate is tarnishing universities reputation as it should.

“The Democrats and Republicans scratch each others backs behind the scenes. Dems vs Reps is just a Dog & Pony show for the Great Unwashed. The real divide is the wealthy elite vs us peasants.”

Us? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?

Have you joined the #occupy movement yet? You’d fit right in. Few of “us” want anything to do with them.

“Do you really think “Socialism” or “Progressivism” could have taken over our schools and media without the benediction of the wealthy who OWN the media and FUND our Universities and politicians????”

Newsflash: Rich people send their kids to private schools. Evangelist Christians homeschool. Catholics have religious schools. The school boards of public schools, the teachers, the principles, the superintendents, are all from the peasant class. You dear, hire these people. I suggest you get off your duff and see about firing them if you don’t like the job they are doing.

“The biggest cover-up applies to the idea that the Corporate and Banking CEOs are in favor of Capitalism and opposed to Socialism. The truth is exactly the opposite. Socialism promotes government control over everything and that is a very good business strategy for those who control the government laws and bureaucracies – the banking & Corporate CEOs. What we are actually seeing is not “Socialism” but “Neo-Corporatism” using the mask of “Socialism” to tighten control without the “Useful Idiots” wising up to who is actually pulling their strings (and funding their pet NGOs).”

Are you serious? What’s the banking industry like in Russia?

“If the Republicans swept Clinton’s getting campaign funds from China under the rug when China was considered an “Enemy” of the USA then Mann’s minor indiscretions will be buried too.”

People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones. Most politicians are at least bright enough to know that. Few of them don’t have any unsavory campaign donors they’d rather not disclose.

You need to qualify who owns the media. It’s true it’s owned and controlled by the wealthy but it’s wealthy liberals for the most part. Wealthy conservatives own the military industrial complex. I’m not sure which has the greater influence.

Child abuse is a terrible crime that destroys lives utterly, but a single scandal of it is not the same as coercing an entire species of sentient beings into believing a lie.

In reverse order, there’s no “coercing” anybody “into believing a lie.” The unjustified and unjustifiable coercion involved in the anthropogenic global warming (AGW) fraud is instantiated in the actions undertaken by government officers under the presumption (in almost every case with the knowledge that the AGW premise is wholly false) that such aggressive violation of individual human rights is justified by this “We’re All Gonna Die!” flim-flam.

The government thugs know that the AGW notion is a hideous lie. They have been (and continue) perpetrating criminal theft and destruction of value by fraud, and should not only be investigated, indicted, convicted, and incarcerated for their crimes but also subjected to civil lawsuits for the recovery of compensatory and punitive damages.

These “public servants” (I prefer Mencken’s term for them, “malevolent jobholders“) have a duty to preserve the lives, the liberties, and the property of the private citizen. Their dereliction of that duty is the definition of malpractice, and having undertaken that violation of the private individual’s rights is malfeasance.

Unleash the tort lawyers!

Now on to the first line in that quoted section. “Child abuse is a terrible crime that destroys lives utterly….”

This is the old “spiritual equivalent of murder” batpuckey, and utterly contemptible.

Those of us with education, training, and experience in the management of patients with histories of childhood physical, emotional, and sexual abuse know that this “destroys lives utterly” crap is not only false but unspeakably, hideously, and irresponsibly invidious. Do you understand that, Jeremy? Pushing that “spiritual murder” garbage of yours actually has an adverse effect on the lives of real human beings who have sustained such abuse. They internalize that idiocy, and it contributes mightily to their failures of recovery.

There have been millions of people throughout recorded history who have experienced “Child abuse,” and the overwhelming majority of them have gone on to live lives of both subjective and indisputably objective value. Those who have taken the time to study the subject (not to mention the clinical fund of knowledge pertinent thereunto) have a sound appreciation of how and why this is so, and treat hysterical idiocy like Jeremy‘s with the hatred it richly deserves.

In the play 1776, the authors have the character portraying Rhode Island delegate Stephen Hopkins uttering the following line:

Well, in all my years I ain’t never heard, seen, nor smelled an issue that was so dangerous it couldn’t be talked about. Hell, yeah! I’m for debating anything. Rhode Island says yea!

I’m very much in favor of discussing even the touchiest subjects openly and without fear.

But in the case of this “Child abuse is a terrible crime that destroys lives utterly…” hatefulness, the effects of the meme are so pernicious that a concern for public health (if nothing else) gives me to call upon Jeremy and his ilk to put a goddam cork in it.

The laws in the USA are different. No one is calling Mann a pedophile but we already have proof he is dishonest, (Climategate e-mails and Hockey Stick graph) and we already have proof that Penn State ignored FOIAs and did a whitewash. This despite the wiliness of the University of Virginia to fork over the e-mails of another prof. if Greenpeace was willing to pay.

This cover-up by the SAME person should leave a reasonable person with at least some suspicion that another cover-up to protect another cash cow may have gone down.

At this point if the University wants to save face they need to look at ALL the back records with a microscope and come clean. Otherwise they need every bit of mud flung at them to STICK!

I heartily disagree with any kind of comparison between the climategate coverup and this exceptionally tragic coverup. No comparison. One is an opinion based coverup of stupidity and inept science among adults. The other is a criminal coverup of massive emotional damage to young children. There are few posts I find to be extremely inappropriate and entirely devoid of proper forethought. This is one of them. It is similar to the despicable use of the term “denier” applied to skeptics. Let us not make that same mistake here. I cannot imagine the pain these children and parents are feeling right now. I can only hope they are not subjected to this post.

“* Two 2009 requests of the very same University of Virginia for records and emails of academic scientists, one of whom was ultimately forced out as state climatologist by a non-scientist politician who did not share his views on climate science.
* A request of the University of Delaware for the records and emails of an academic scientist, also subsequently ushered out as state climatologist.
* Requests of the University of Alabama-Huntsville for the records and emails of two academic scientists.
* Requests of Harvard-Smithsonian for the records and emails of two academic scientists. In turning over requested emails Harvard-Smithsonian acknowledged that, while not actually covered by FOIA, it wanted to comply with the spirit of the act.
Smelling salts, anyone? Further shocking, the subjects of each of the above requests were climate “skeptics.” First, they came for the emails of the climate skeptics; not liking the climate skeptics, I said nothing…”
And suddenly the University is spending $$$ not to comply? How do you call this LT?

Little has been said in comments in this thread about the Editorial in Nature regarding the email FOI saga. Is it not worth its own post?

I posted this at Nature a few minutes ago, in fact at the eleventh second of the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month of the eleventh year of this century, presumably Eastern Standard Time. If only because of the coincidence of the time of posting, which was truly coincidental and not an attempt at trickery, as could be argued was the subject matter being investigated in the emails, I hope that Nature will not delete my posting.

“• 2011-11-11 11:11 AM
Report this comment #30037
Colin Porter said:
One would have thought that a publication of such very high repute like Nature would have welcomed and encouraged a spirit of openness and honesty, and would have supported the publication of these emails, if for no other reasons than to enhance Michael Mann’s reputation and with it his palaeontology reconstructions, which Nature has hitherto so enthusiastically promoted.
Perhaps the phrase “Mike’s Nature Trick” is inhibiting or worrying the editors of Nature. Could it be that the conduct of other organisations with whom Mann had dealings would also be exposed, were the emails ever to be published?
And in the spirit of integrity and openness, I fully hope and expect that my post will not be moderated.”

The sleazy activities throughout big bucks football programs at our universities is the usual stuff. Sadly in contrast we have climate science being so corrupt that it is now difficult to trust any of the sciences through association. The more money, the more corruption creeps into the program.

Other examples abound.For example: NASA has produced a bundle of great achievements, yet what can be trusted coming from their production, especially around climate?

Another example is the pharmaceuticals. A science that is unethically killing people under the premise medical treatment.. The quackery is rampant. If one does a little digging, you’ll discover that the heart attack rates having been increasing per capita directly to the dispensing of statins, an anti-inflammatory liver toxin.

Now we have to have watch dogs combing all science journals for garbage, when those journals used to be reliable to weed out junk science.

So the Penn State fiasco is inline with many of our higher education corruption that is out of control. The appointed board of directors are mandated to promote a standard of excellence, but the only excellence is fraud.

I hired a Penn State grad exec and his education was supperb. I also know Penn State has some fine schools and preferred donors. Donors didn’t really fade with Mann but this damage is cummulative. i suspect more donors will shift elswhere. This the first concern for the trustees.

On low class firing?
Yep. Reporters surrounded Paternos house and firing by phone was a least worst option. Paterno hustled to do a departure press conference to leave on “his terms” The trustees took control and fired him on their terms and cancelled the conference. Just in time.
The coverups are expressed in secrets and lack of accountibility.
My daughter was into the NCAA national championsjips in track. Her coaches were males since middle school. There is a lot of adult responsibility that must be respected and guarded. One of her coaches I had in college.

I disagree, Pamela. While the scandals are wildly divergent in their detail, what they share in common is state employees (paid by taxes) deciding they have the power to choose who they are accountable to, and who they are not accountable to. The folks who actually pay their salaries are to date, unfortunately, in the latter group.

Tucci, I have such knowledge and you are full of something else entirely. Utter destruction from such abuse can be as hidden as a failing heart till you end up on the floor. That people walk around seemingly well on the outside with such dreadful secrets inside is NOT a testemonial to the resiliance of humans to withstand and overcome such events.

Dave Springer says:
November 11, 2011 at 8:39 am
@Combs
You need to qualify who owns the media. It’s true it’s owned and controlled by the wealthy but it’s wealthy liberals for the most part. Wealthy conservatives own the military industrial complex. I’m not sure which has the greater influence.>>>

The innuendo is that Michael Mann (should he be asked and I suggest that he should be directly asked) has no option but to declare that a full disclosure of all information regarding the child sex rape cover up be made. The innuendo is that given this obvious, yet unstated position, Mann is faced with the inconsistency of a philosophical and practical contradiction. He and the rest of the academics who form the college.

In the case of his own cover-up, he is on record claiming that information needs to be held secret even though it serves enormous social impact. On the other hand, it is undeniable that in the case of this crime against children, where it appears that a Penn State cover-up also took place, Mann is lothe to attempt to defend Penn State’s actions.

The innuendo is hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty. I ask you directly Dr Michael Mann: To what extent is it permissible for Penn State to conceal the crimes against children. I also ask you directly: To what extent is it permissible for Penn State to conceal the crimes against society.

It is definitely over the top to make an analogy between the overlooking of a heinous crime like paedophile rape and the distorted workings of a disreputable ‘scientist’.

Agreed – at the level of the perpetrators. However, the issue here is with the supposed upholder of integrity for the whole university, Spanier. It b****y well is Spanier’s business to put two and two together to see the global effects of one piece of f***d science. IMHO. That is what true management ought to be about.

And the same goes for University of East Anglia and the corrupt whitewashes there.

… I have such knowledge and you are full of something else entirely. Utter destruction from such abuse can be as hidden as a failing heart till you end up on the floor. That people walk around seemingly well on the outside with such dreadful secrets inside is NOT a testemonial to the resiliance of humans to withstand and overcome such events.

Ms. Gray, if your “knowledge” of child abuse derives from your personal individual experience as a victim of such – emotional, sexual, and/or physical – and is not supported by a broader and more dispassionate appreciation of the phenomena (such as those of us in the health care racket get, along with didactic and clinical training), then you’re speaking on the basis of information as abjectly inadequate as is your blithering about “as hidden as a failing heart” (which actually presents with symptoms and signs that tend reliably to be pretty friggin’ obvious).

If you have your knowledge as the subject of childhood abuse – of any kind – you have my sympathies.

Not my respect, mind you. But my sympathies.

With that and about a buck, you can get yourself a cup of coffee at the local donut shop.

To get my respect – and the respect of anybody else who has actually been professionally responsible for helping real people survive the experience of child abuse – try coming up with reasoned argument on the subject. Otherwise, please join Mr. Hull and Jeremy in the “time out” corner.

I am sorry, your incessant blathering is just that until you cite actual studies and so forth. I would be happy to read anything you will cite. I would also appreciate if you take your attitude and shove it. No one appreciates it and it just makes you look like a bigger [snip]. Also, I have the feeling that your respect is as useless as your sympathies, so please, find bigger carrots.

University of Pennsylvania, Class of ’76 says:
November 11, 2011 at 4:04 am
Chuck Nolan, this happened at PENN STATE, not UNIV OF PENNSYLVANIA!
————-
My apologies. I knew that and then lost it while thinking and typing.

I am sorry, your incessant blathering is just that until you cite actual studies and so forth. I would be happy to read anything you will cite. I would also appreciate if you take your attitude and shove it. No one appreciates it and it just makes you look like a bigger [snip]. Also, I have the feeling that your respect is as useless as your sympathies, so please, find bigger carrots.

Tucci, your displayed anger demonstated throughout is palpable and suggestvely pathological. Perhaps its you who would benefit from the timeout. Sincerely, with that amount of barely restrained anger, I hope you have nothing to do with any disturbed indviduals.

As to the issues on the table here for WUWT, the allegations of pedophillia are moot. The issue is the fiduciary response of the President and by extension, the board, in both this and the Mann file. Both situations are but branches of the same tree. I would argue that its all an extension of and consistent with the moral ambiguity the liberal left has become famous for, but I won’t; no time for the “moral outrage”…;)

Academia is proving to be as insular and arrogant as the Catholic Church.paterno and Sanier acted like Bishops covering up for a corrupt priest.
Their is the obvious cyncial cover-up that was the faux invesitgation of Mann. The fabricated rights of academics to avoid normal reviews of their publicly funded work at U Virginia. The UEA and its sorry transparent violations of legitimate FOI requests. Academics shows themselvesto be a spolied group that seems to think of themselves inerrant, seperate from society and accountable to no one they do not approve of.
Paterno and his involvement in what is turning into an organized pedophile conspiracy, even if he simply declined to do the right moral thing, is just another academic as far as I can tell.
The exceptional ones are those who are daring to stand against the consensus of their peers, to call out those they know are doing dubious work or worse.
As always, there are far too few of the exceptional ones.
Who is condemning Chris Mooney for his trash book? is the AGU going to fire him?
Who is condemning Mann and his obvious evasion?
Who is willing to stand up Hansen as he yet again makes phony claims about the weather and for his past support of xenocidal terrorism?
Who is going to stand clearly against the IPCC and their rejection of even the most basic conflicts of interest policies and their being used by NGO’s to push junk science?
Paterno’s failure is just a disgusting example of what is typical for academia today.

We are attempting to find out the basis for your diatribe. So far it is not discernible. And your rant without knowledge about who has or has not dealt directly with child abuse is equally obscure. Are you claiming some kind of clairvoyance or other super natural power as you assume that which you do not know?

While I might agree with your apparent protest against ‘professional victims’ and their handlers, your over-the-top over reaction is rather curious. It seems as if you are claiming that there is no lasting harm for victims of abuse. My FAMILY experience tells me “unto the second and third generation”.

And by the way, I just love your “I’m the adult. Sit down and listen to me persona.” Just a wee bit full of yourself, I’d venture.

I disagree with the premise that religion causes mental harm. It actually turns out to be quite the opposite, which exposes the rest of Dawkins’ article as nothing more than his wishes, not to be based in fact.

We’re here to talk about science. Criticise Dr Mann’s science as much as you like. Question his honesty, if you feel the need. But senseless slurs with no supporting evidence do much more harm than good. Sure, some of the warmists say horrible things — but we don’t want to be like that.

There are plenty of serious allegations against Dr Mann that we can discuss. Creating silly ones serves no point.

You obviously didn’t read my post, which was primarily against Penn State and their inability to police themselves. They only use Mann and football as trinkets to get more money.

It would be helpful if Tucci and everyone would tone down the rhetoric a little. The only thing I can add is from personal experience. I was a childhood victim on a single instance. I can say with no doubt that it had little effect on my life. It had absolutely no lasting effect on me. Now, I wonder how I would have handled it if I was repeatedly told I should be devastated? I’m sure glad I never was told anything like that.

I believe those who are subjected to continual abuse could certainly face a different result. Let’s not confuse these two different circumstances.

TimH says: November 11, 2011 at 4:48 am
“I don’t think we’ve heard the last of either scandal. When someone shows such gross negligence, perhaps even willful deceipt, all prior actions should be investigated.”

I agree. I would put it this way.

Isn’t it true that (a) when a man is convicted of a crime based on evidence collected by the police, and (b) subsequent to that conviction it is proven that one or more policemen planted evidence critical to the guilty verdict, then other convictions that relied on evidence collected by the disgraced policemen are reviewed with the possible result that a new trial is given to many of the convicted?

I know that in criminal procedures the procecution doesn’t get a “second bite at the apple”–i.e., once a not quilty verdict is rendered, the accused cannot be retried. However, in Dr. Mann’s case, his “trial” was not in a criminal court, but rather in the court of public opinion. For public-opinion trials, is it not unreasonable to invert the process? That is, when a man is acquitted of potential wrong doing based on an investigation conducted by officials, and (b) subsequent to that acquittal it is proven that one or more of those officials ignored evidence critical to the not guilty verdict, then other acquittals that relied on evidence ignored by the disgraced officials should be reviewed with the possible result that a new trial is given to the acuitted?

Another instance of how integrity and grant funding have now almost become mutually exclusive.

It is definitely over the top to make an analogy between the overlooking of a heinous crime like paedophile rape and the distorted workings of a disreputable ‘scientist’…..
___________________________

No it is not over the top. How is the rape of one boy not equal to the burning death of another little boy?

Mann and his “Hockey Stick” are morally if not legally an accessory before the fact, of the death by burning of Friday Mukamperezida. He was burned to death when his village was set afire by “officials” clearing land for New Forest Company. A company in which Al Gore is president.

Remember Al Gore??? He is the one who used Mann’s Hockey Stick to scare the naive non-scientists half to death in his film “An Inconvenient Truth” and thereby keep CAGW alive and well politically.

The fact is that thousands if not millions of children under five died by starvation due to manipulation of the food supply. Hundreds of elderly in the UK died by hypothermia and other cold related complications due to heating fuel prices hikes. In Friday Mukamperezida case the death was at the hands of “Officials” clearing the indigenous people off their land due to New Forest Co. The fact these deaths were done at a distance does not mean those pulling the strings are not awash in the blood.

Oh and by the way US Universities also have a vested interest because they are investing their endowment funds in Africa land in the same manner that Al Gore is. Just think if you donate to an Alumni fund your dollar may be used to boot an African peasant off his land.

… but you see, the entire education establishment has been conditioned not to do this.Just ask them what would they do if they found out there was an illegal alien in their classroom.
They make up their own rules as they see fit.

I agree entirely with Pam Gray. There is no moral equivalence between Mann’s control freak behavior and the monstrous crimes at Penn State. It might be argued that Mann’s boorish behaviour and lapses in professional ethics were enabled by the decadent culture of Happy Valley, but it is uncalled for to conflate his misguided efforts to to stifle debate with the unspeakable evil that taints the athletic program.

It would be helpful if Tucci and everyone would tone down the rhetoric a little. The only thing I can add is from personal experience. I was a childhood victim on a single instance. I can say with no doubt that it had little effect on my life. It had absolutely no lasting effect on me. Now, I wonder how I would have handled it if I was repeatedly told I should be devastated? I’m sure glad I never was told anything like that.

I believe those who are subjected to continual abuse could certainly face a different result. Let’s not confuse these two different circumstances.

Sorry, Richard, but I don’t “tone down.” Might be a Sicilian thing, I suppose. Not that I give a damn. Arrant stupidity – particularly when it’s obviously the kind of crap that inflicts upon innocent people an increased likelihood of adverse clinical outcomes – tends to get my back up.

You might like to know that you’re far from being alone in your “personal experience.” Beyond what I’ve gotten of this subject in both clinical practice and conversations with colleagues confirming your conclusions, some decades ago, I came across David Niven‘s autobiography The Moon’s a Balloon (1971), in which he made casual and humorously dismissive mention of a solitary episode when, as a child at school, there had been a more senior boy who’d taken him out into the woods and performed some unspecified sexual act upon him, which he had neither enjoyed much nor claimed to have unduly distressed him. He said that he simply hadn’t seen much point to it.

Reading that bit was the first time I’d ever heard of the British public school ribaldry to the effect that “Little boys are half-a-crown / Standing up or bending down.”

The impression Niven gave in that autobiography and elsewhere subsequently gives support for the contention that he was much more severely traumatized by the physical and emotional punishment he suffered in the various schools to which he was sent before his parents entered him in Stowe School (to be educated under the supervision of a headmaster who provided the support as well as the structure he so desperately needed) and then got him into Sandhurst.

Are you serious? What’s the banking industry like in Russia?
_______
The bankers in Russia are the same ones who are in the USA and the EU. Who the heck do you think FUNDED the revolution and kept Russia afloat???

Do not believe me???? Here it is straight from the horses mouth:

J.P. Morgan has established one of the premier investment banking franchises in Russia. The firm’s leadership in Russia dates back to the 1920s, when Chase National Bank was the correspondent for the State Bank of the Soviet Union. In 1964, Chase Manhattan Chairman David Rockefeller visited Moscow and met with Nikita Krushchev. Rockefeller visited several times in the 1970s and met with ministers of finance and foreign trade. In 1973, Chase opened a representative office in Moscow, the first American bank to have a presence there since the 1920s.

As far as Occupy Wall Street goes they are the typical puppets and can not see past the pap they are spoon fed.

As far as education goes, I recommend home schooling and tutor local kids for free.
You should look up John Dewey “Father of Progressive Education” by the way since you do not seem to have a grasp of the subject.

At 2:29 PM on 11 November, corporate message had written (without specifying what the puck he means by “schlock:”

Too late to give us that schlock, tucci.

By the by, you’ve already showed that a main concern of yours is the harsh, so unfair treatment of Joe P.and you’re just outraged.

No, you friggin’ idiot. What I’ve objected to was the way in which the Penn State Board of Trustees undertook their “sh-t scraping” of Joe Paterno.

Who expects anything but “unfair” from people with a yen for positions of authority? “Sh-t scraping” is nothing more than institutional standard practice among such critters. Watch how our Mombasa Messiah “sh-t scrapes” Attorney General Eric Holder over Operation Fast and Furious and the Florida “Gunrunner” malfeasances.

I don’t give a damn about the football coach himself. Never did, never will. But given the “final drop dead” authority and responsibility of the Board of Trustees insofar as Penn State University is concerned (that good old “captain-of-the-ship principle”), their exquisitely inept way of handling the process of terminating the guy was demonstrative of the fact that not only is Happy Valley better off for the chucking-out of Graham Spanier but it would also be improved by the mass resignation of that whole damned Board of Trustees.

If Spanier’s handling of McQueary’s shower discovery – in 2002 – can be said to warrant the termination without notice of both Pateno and Spanier in 2011, then where’s the consequences for those Board of Trustees members who’ve been serving in those roles from 2002 to the present, or who participated in the decision to have Paterno phone in to get notified that he’d been chopped?

Er, corporate message? You got anything remotely resembling sense to post about the Penn State putzelry?

Tucci78 says:
November 11, 2011 at 10:22 am
“To get my respect – and the respect of anybody else who has actually been professionally responsible for helping real people survive the experience of child abuse – try coming up with reasoned argument on the subject. Otherwise, please join Mr. Hull and Jeremy in the “time out” corner.”

Tucci78;
Sorry, Richard, but I don’t “tone down.” Might be a Sicilian thing, I suppose. Not that I give a damn. Arrant stupidity – particularly when it’s obviously the kind of crap that inflicts upon innocent people an increased likelihood of adverse clinical outcomes – tends to get my back up. >>>

I personally know several dozen people, many of whom have since passed on, but many who are alive, and many of whom are close relatives, who survived the concentration camps in WWII. They witnessed, many of them as children, the most unspeakable crimes that humans are capable of inflicting upon each other. Many of them were the subject of torture and abuse that one cannot read the record of without feeling sick to one’s stomach.

If I did not know them personally, I would have no idea. They somehow survived, started families and raised children, many became successful in academia and in business. On the outside, they seem competent and successful individuals and you might know them for years without suspecting the horrific memories that lurk at the backs of their minds. But for those of us who are family or close friends, we know that the shell of normalcy that they project to the world is in fact a thick hard shell that prevents their horrors on the inside from being seen by people on the outside. We marvel at their strength, though we know inside, despite their success and calm demeanor, they are damaged beyond repair in ways the rest of us can sense, but never actually understand or quantify.

You owe Pamela Gray an apology. If you have any actual concern for those who have suffered the most heinous crimes while still children, then you will display some sensitivity when commenting on the topic, both to those who merely study the matters in questions, and to those who may have personal experience that they speak from.

Good job; There’s a lot of important info in your post. However, I fear that the old addage never steal anything small is operative hear, and Mann will probably never have to pay for the harm that he has wrought in holding down impoverished people.

…I came across David Niven‘s autobiography The Moon’s a Balloon (1971)…

Really? I call you out on not having any support for your absurd position and you go with a forty year old book? There haven’t been any advances since then? I’ll leave aside that you cited one personal experience against another without considering differing personalities. You’re a fraud.

I have not read all the above comments, forgive me if this has already been covered. But some here require mild correcting. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children. It is not illegal to be a pedophile, Child molestation is illegal, whether the perp is a pedophile, homosexual or heterosexual..

There were 25 thousand pensioners in the UK who died shivering in the cold because they couldn’t afford to turn on the heat last winter. They couldn’t afford the extra added costs imposed by global warmers, informed by Michael Mann’s deceits, enabled by Penn State’s administrative cover-up.

Usually I don’t like blending two issues but since these are both caused by the same attitudes and arogances by the same institution it is quite apropriate. While covering up the raping of children can’t compare with the academic crimes, it just goes to show that when you think a person’s or a group’s behavior is so nausiating and vile that it can’t get any worse they can alway find a way to prove you wrong. Always.

You all think you’re horrified? Let me tell you something: I come to this blog for climate news — and now I find this sordid scandal of the rape of a boy here too. Yes it is horrendous news — but not climate related whatsoever. Nor even related to lying about mere numbers or temperature station locations. No, this Boy Rape affair strikes at a far greater fear among the population than whether the temps are up or down and/or why. And I have been warning my gay friends — since I am, I got lots — and we all are discussing this — “beware gentlemen, brace yourselves.” For we fine fellows are about to be pilloried as a group like no “climate denier” could ever imagine. Not a fact, nor piece of evidence in our favor will be considered, and every horrible accusation unfairly hurled against us will be revived. “Homosexuality” will be front and center.

This is not “gay” however. This ostensibly hetero Sandusky — married, with two sons — has now destroyed years of progress in our general acceptance in society. This parade of heterosexual men — Paterno, McQueary, who else, who knows … many more I’m sure … has now done more damage to me and mine than all the global warming fools could ever have done, nor or the silly drag queens seen at a gay parade. We gay men are about to get a lashing that no climate debater could ever conceive of. We are ready to incarcerate all these people for the rest of their lives — but the “heterosexuality” of none of these men will be impinged — but only the “homosexuality.” Even when married men are caught with 10 year old girls “heterosexuality” is not the culprit. We gays are always considered so much different, as a group, than you all are..

Oh you lucky people, you are rightly outraged for the poor kids, the lies, the cover ups, the misprision of felony, the riots, on and on through the criminal and moral codes by heterosexuals — I am with you — but you are not about to get what I am about to get.

So just remember this, as this affair unfolds: gay men have nothing — Nothing! — to do with this. And all us gay guys can do is beg you all for recognizing this — this is a heterosexual issue. We want to get married, for heaven’s sake.

EVERYONE in the athletic department at PSU should be fired! You can’t tell me that not ALL employees had some knowledge of this. Even the current acting athletic director Mark Sherburne had knowledge of this!!! If he didn’t have knowledge of it then it shows that there is even more of a problem and cover up at PSU and if Sherburne did then it makes him a possible suspect and should be charged with conspiracy! Clean the house from top (board of directors) to bottom (all coaches & athletic department) and everyone in between who had any involvement!!!

I think you’re viewing this through a gay/straight lens. That’s not how I see it.

The common thread in this latest episode is the university’s turning a blind eye to corruption, because they are getting rich off of corrupt individuals. Michael Mann is a rainmaker who brings in millions, so Penn State did a completely phony ‘investigation’ and ‘exonerated’ Mann. They never called a single opposing witness, and buried the accusations ASAP.

The official coruption is endemic to Penn State. Money trumps ethics. That is the problem.

I posted this on my FaceBook (over 700 friends) and linked it back to your article:
Penn State President Graham Spanier was fired “for failing to ensure that a proper investigation was carried out in respect to pedophilia allegations in Penn State’s hugely profitable football program.”
Golly! That’s the same dude who led the quashing of the investigation into Penn State’s hugely successful Climate-Gate “hockey-sticker” Mikey Mann, leading to a whitewash.
Well butter my butt and call me a biscuit!

corporate message says: November 11, 2011 at 11:31 am
Thanks for your comments, instructive.
Presumably the football teams were provided with well-evidenced health research to maintain peak pyschosocial and physical status, possibly from a university health science dept. The players could in fact have been research subjects in a sports medicine program?

I had forgotten the outcome as expressed by Mann in the video clip you also posted.
Mann speaks of‘……a funded campaign by industry special interests that don’t want to see action taken to combat the problem…..the denialists got a lot of mileage from the propaganda they were able to spin …….’ (around1.50 onwards)
Hmmm.

In Australia, a website run by the sandstone universities (these are the unis first established in each state) offers science publicly. All universities have Ethics Committees and Code of Conduct attached to receipt of grant funding. Strategic partners for this not-for-profit include several federal government depts.

In light of the discussions in this WUWT post the article below is of interest.
The article suggests that people reject science. The author does not suggest that [some] people may reject some science or reject science conducted by some scientists. Or indeed entire hypotheses.

11th Nov 2011 Why do people reject science? Here’s why?…..Threat is the key word here. Threats to financial interests. Threats to one’s career or to one’s ability to keep pace with rapidly-evolving revolutionary knowledge.

The notion of threat is key to understanding the rejection of evidence; whether it’s by vested interests, by mediocre scientists fearful of becoming outdated, or by the public at large when confronted by inconvenient science.’

Then you can go on and look at how many directors are/were bank employees or financiers. For that you have to look at the profile of each director for each media company. And of course there is WHO owns the LOANS made to finance the purchase of the media….

…… if your “knowledge” of child abuse derives from your personal individual experience as a victim of such – emotional, sexual, and/or physical – and is not supported by a broader and more dispassionate appreciation of the phenomena (such as those of us in the health care racket get, along with didactic and clinical training), then you’re speaking on the basis of information as abjectly inadequate…….
_______________________________

Child Abuse is nasty and does leave permanent marks on those subjected to it. It can redefine your whole personality and stunt emotional growth (My experience and my friends’ experience)

HOWEVER it does not have to be crippling. The human has an amazing capacity to adapt. So you acknowledge the problem, deal with it and go on. No one promised that life would be fair. It is not. (I often wonder if the lack of women in high positions is due to this assault to their self esteem.)

Child Abuse is nasty and does leave permanent marks on those subjected to it. It can redefine your whole personality and stunt emotional growth (My experience and my friends’ experience)

HOWEVER it does not have to be crippling. The human has an amazing capacity to adapt. So you acknowledge the problem, deal with it and go on. No one promised that life would be fair. It is not. (I often wonder if the lack of women in high positions is due to this assault to their self esteem.)

I had earlier posted a fairly long comment on this subject, but a moderator had apparently censored it off the board while it was awaiting “moderation.”

I’d made reference to the fact that while the clinical and quasi-clinical literature is replete with studies of and recommendations for the evaluation of child subjects of sexual abuse with the focus effectively entirely upon the collection of forensic evidence leading to the arrest and conviction of the offender, there is damn-all in the way of clinical best practices guidance for the address of the medical and psychiatric needs of the child or adolescent victim, either acute or long-term.

Damned funny, isn’t it? All this noise about how “It’s for the children!” we’re supposed to be working, and yet the overwhelming preponderance of focus on treatment modalities is directed at the extremely lucrative pharmacological and psychiatric treatment of the offenders.

If having been the subject of sexual (or emotional or physical) abuse is not going to be “crippling,” there really ought to be reasonably extensive treatment guidelines for health care professionals to better ensure positive outcomes in these cases, right?

Closest thing I have been able to find outside of the paywalls was a review uttered online in Australia in 1998, and that contained nothing more than a few paragraphs of clinical common sense confirming my contentions that stigmatization with the “destroys lives utterly” meme is precisely the last thing anybody should ever do to a person who had been the subject of sexual abuse as a child or teenager.

In response to my mention of David Niven’s recounting of his own experience as the subject of childhood sexual abuse in his autobiography The Moon’s a Balloon (1971), at 7:33PM on 11 November we’ve got neill rabidly sputtering:

Don’t Tucci me there:

re Niven’s bio: “which he had neither enjoyed much nor claimed to have unduly distressed him. He said that he simply hadn’t seen much point to it.”

This is ridiculous. It was wrong, no question. Castrate the bastard. But Niven didn’t allow it to DEFINE him, and went on to a fulfilling life. Stop Trying To BE the Victim Here.

Never did I imagine that WUWT would be torn asunder by something like THIS.

Yep, another comment from below the tentorial membrane. There are so damned many people who are as incapable of reasoning about the clinical realities of childhood and adolescent abuse.

Pretty good reflection of the way los warmistas keep responding to “global warming denial,” isn’t it?

In which case, a venue like WUWT is something of the most appropriate possible place to bring up such a subject for dispassionately focused and lucid examination, neil‘s silly “Don’t Tucci me” whine notwithstanding.

I am sorry, your incessant blathering is just that until you cite actual studies and so forth. I would be happy to read anything you will cite. I would also appreciate if you take your attitude and shove it. No one appreciates it and it just makes you look like a bigger [snip]. Also, I have the feeling that your respect is as useless as your sympathies, so please, find bigger carrots.

I’d responded at some length much earlier to your request for “actual studies” (quoting one of the very, very few online sources of information on the clinical management of the subjects [as opposed to the offenders] involved in cases of child sexual abuse), but it got censored off the board while “awaiting moderation.” Go figure.

In truth, there has been vanishingly little attention paid in either the medical profession or any of the ancillary health care fields to management methods aimed at improving either short- or long-term outcomes among the child or adolescent victims of sexual (or physical or emotional) abuse. Much about higher incidences of psychoactive substance abuse and mood disorders (chiefly depressive) among the adult survivors of such experiences, but very little hard evidence of causation independent of other psychosocial factors or guidance for those of us involved in the acute and long-term medical care of the children themselves.

And that’s not really much of a surprise. As I’ve said (if that’s not also been censored off the board), with all the yelping about how “It’s for the children!” there really is damn-all in the way of focus upon the needs of the children themselves. All the money is to be gotten by way of treating the offenders (big market for progestogenics and LHRH agonists and a slew of other drugs as well as years and years and years of costly “counseling”), but there’s obviously no pelf to be gotten in taking care of the kids.

Just trust to their psychological “resilience” and wait until they’re old to become lucrative customers for antidepressant and neuroleptic medications while hoping they’ll develop ADD/ADHD (which gets them remuneratively on the polypharmacy bandwagon while they’re still prepubescent).

Again, go figure.

In fact, what there was to be found – accessible to you, too, Mr. Falkner, if you’d given enough of a genuine damn to look for yourself – tends to support my contention that the “destroys lives utterly” meme that you and your kneejerk co-religionists are so dedicated to promulgating has itself an extremely damaging effect on such patients’ recovery and long-term psychiatric prognoses.

Now, as I’d said in my earlier censored-off-the-board post addressed to your putzelry, Mr. Falkner, let’s see you come up with some citations which support the psychiatric equivalent of a death sentence (“Child abuse is a terrible crime that destroys lives utterly…“) for the victims of child abuse.

Inasmuch as you never will, may I suggest someplace where you really deserve to shove your “bigger carrots,” Mr. Falkner?

REPLY: And with that, I’m closing this thread, since it has gotten too far off topic and into realms I’m not comfortable discussing further. The issue was PSU’s procedure and their apparent internal CYA, now it’s gotten into psychoanalysis and name calling, mostly thanks to Tucci78. Be as upset as you wish, but I’m just not interested in moderating this junk anymore. -Anthony