At this point in the season, we are still in it. First place, and for at least the next month we are going to be in a hot race, hopefully more. However, I think we can take advantage of some teams that are heavy buyers. One team that comes to mind is the Yankees. Their bullpen of late has been horrific and they have seen many players go down to injury. They have a good farm system and a few pitchers that aren’t too far from the majors (Bentances and Banuelos).

Our bullpen has been one of the strong points of the team and is one of the stronger parts of our minor league system. I would say that Smith and Hermann are maximizing their potential this year, and maybe certain stats may be skewing their effectiveness (Smith has a low ERA but his WHIP is not reflective of that). Durbin could also be dealt, he was very good the previous few years before Cleveland. We have a few arms in Columbus that could be ready to fill in a spot in the major league bullpen if anyone is moved.

If we sell Durbin and OCab, maybe but even then...too many injuries to contend by staying put or sell the bums

What do you guys think would it take to get Willingham and McCarthy from the A's? Both are rentals and I think we could get them in a package without having to sacrifice a Top 5 guy....maybe Weglarz (although I'd like to keep him since his value is at his lowest and I still believe in him) + Judy/Putnam/Herrmann + McAllister/Gomez/Huff + Abreu gets the job done? Not enough? If they want more high upside guys from the lower levels I'd be ok with that too..maybe Wolters (like him, but we have a boatload of SSs in lower levels) + Goodnight + Judy/Putnam/Herrmann + Huff/Gomez/McAll

Boy, we have so much ammunition, it'd be silly NOT to trade for contention, even if it means overpaying...we can't keep them all anyway...we'll lose 1-2 ML-talented RPs anyway in the Rule 5 if we stay put

So, what do you think would it take to get those 2 from the A's (are they arb eligible?) ? I think they could push us over the top short term

Selling of contributing players on the 25 man roster probably would not help the Indians in their pursuit of the Central Division title.. While there are some "pieces" that could be readily replaced with prospects currently toiling in the minor leagues, proceeding with this approach has to be done very carefully..

The acquisition of players that could help the Indians quest to win the AL Central should be the priority.. that said, here are a few suggestions:

# 1: James Shields: Big Game James is signed to a very club friendly contract, similar to Fausto Carmona's: 2011 prorated contract would cost the Indians approximately $ 2 MM. The remaining club options call for $ 7 MM, $ 9 MM, and $ 12MM for 2012-2014, respectively. The Rays are in the middle of a seven game stretch against the Yankees and Red Sox. They are not faring well. The Ray's also have NO DESIRE to help out their division rivals. Furthermore, the Rays have shown a propensity to trade players who are getting expensive to further bolster their minor league system (Matt Garza). The Rays biggest need is an every day catcher, bullpen arms that are near MLB Ready or MLB Ready, a Centerfielder, and at least one middle infielder. Sounds like the Rays needs are the Indians strengths. A trade between the Indians and Rays seems like a good fit..

# 2: Melky Cabrera: Just buy him. Starting pitching, a young Catcher and 2B are what the Royals need. Not a major trade, so high upside pieces such as Kipnis, White, Pomeranz would not be involved. Zach McAllister, Chun-hsui Chen or Cord Phelps could be "sold" to make this happen..

These are the two primary needs of the Indians.. Any comments would be appreciated...

Shields proposal has to start with Pomeranz...anythin else they won't listen to

Melky is having a career year and is a sub .700 OPS hitter against LHP, don't know if he's a fit...he's also under their control, so if they let him go they want to cash in, which means they probably start with Kipnis...if not him a Wolters + Chen + SP...or Phelps + Chen + SP...that's pretty steep for a career .720 guy (nearly 3k ABs woth of track record), who is a 10/10 hitter in AVG years...this being his career year he can reach 15-20/15-20...but don't expect that going forward...he's also very inconsistent, a hot/cold hitter....he's not worth it imho

Also, with grady and Choo out..what we need is a #5, #6 type hitter...Melky isn't really. Willingham otoh fits the bill, a guy that gets on base and has power...a true middle of the order hitter, not cleanup good, bur good enough to hit behind one...his last 5 seasons his OPS was north of .800..do it, we won't get Beltran, so get the next best

Tondo wrote:Shields proposal has to start with Pomeranz...anythin else they won't listen to

Melky is having a career year and is a sub .700 OPS hitter against LHP, don't know if he's a fit...he's also under their control, so if they let him go they want to cash in, which means they probably start with Kipnis...if not him a Wolters + Chen + SP...or Phelps + Chen + SP...that's pretty steep for a career .720 guy (nearly 3k ABs woth of track record), who is a 10/10 hitter in AVG years...this being his career year he can reach 15-20/15-20...but don't expect that going forward...he's also very inconsistent, a hot/cold hitter....he's not worth it imho

Also, with grady and Choo out..what we need is a #5, #6 type hitter...Melky isn't really. Willingham otoh fits the bill, a guy that gets on base and has power...a true middle of the order hitter, not cleanup good, bur good enough to hit behind one...his last 5 seasons his OPS was north of .800..do it, we won't get Beltran, so get the next best

ha, I'd love to be in the room/on the conference call if that's what the Royals ask for Melky....who easily may be a backup next year when Cain takes over.

Disagree slightly on the Pom for Shields....they have pitching, they may be more interested in a guy like Kipnis (Zobrist could move to an OF spot again). That said, they'd probably ask for both.

Tondo wrote:Shields proposal has to start with Pomeranz...anythin else they won't listen to

Melky is having a career year and is a sub .700 OPS hitter against LHP, don't know if he's a fit...he's also under their control, so if they let him go they want to cash in, which means they probably start with Kipnis...if not him a Wolters + Chen + SP...or Phelps + Chen + SP...that's pretty steep for a career .720 guy (nearly 3k ABs woth of track record), who is a 10/10 hitter in AVG years...this being his career year he can reach 15-20/15-20...but don't expect that going forward...he's also very inconsistent, a hot/cold hitter....he's not worth it imho

Also, with grady and Choo out..what we need is a #5, #6 type hitter...Melky isn't really. Willingham otoh fits the bill, a guy that gets on base and has power...a true middle of the order hitter, not cleanup good, bur good enough to hit behind one...his last 5 seasons his OPS was north of .800..do it, we won't get Beltran, so get the next best

shields would start with carlos santana, just dont see it with as good as he has been

Tondo wrote:If we sell Durbin and OCab, maybe but even then...too many injuries to contend by staying put or sell the bums

What do you guys think would it take to get Willingham and McCarthy from the A's? Both are rentals and I think we could get them in a package without having to sacrifice a Top 5 guy....maybe Weglarz (although I'd like to keep him since his value is at his lowest and I still believe in him) + Judy/Putnam/Herrmann + McAllister/Gomez/Huff + Abreu gets the job done? Not enough? If they want more high upside guys from the lower levels I'd be ok with that too..maybe Wolters (like him, but we have a boatload of SSs in lower levels) + Goodnight + Judy/Putnam/Herrmann + Huff/Gomez/McAll

Boy, we have so much ammunition, it'd be silly NOT to trade for contention, even if it means overpaying...we can't keep them all anyway...we'll lose 1-2 ML-talented RPs anyway in the Rule 5 if we stay put

So, what do you think would it take to get those 2 from the A's (are they arb eligible?) ? I think they could push us over the top short term

Don't see where McCarthy would fit in the rotation, especially once White returns. We have 6 starters with White, and a few more knocking on the door in AAA.

If the Tribe is a "buyer", Josh Willingham is definitely the guy. I didn't know anything about him, but a quick look revealed that he's a 32-yo left fielder who hits right-handed and is making $6 million this year for Oakland.

He's only hitting .232 against lefties (.244 overall), but he has 5 HRs in only 82 ABs against left-handed pitching with a .771 OPS. Not bad.

He hit only .204 in June (I think he was hurt) but is on a tear in July with a .345/1.045 line this month. He's on fire right now.

Here's what I like the most - he's been nails in the clutch.

RISP: .325/.963RISP/2 out: .341/1.169

Put his guy in the cleanup spot behind Brantley, ACab, and Pronk and he'll get lots of ABs with runners on base. He could be a lot more productive here than he's been in Oakland, where they have the second worst offense in the AL.

Can the Tribe be a "seller" and still contend? With so many teams still in contention there are a lot of buyers out there. Does the Tribe have any players that could help a contending team this year but whose loss would not significantly hurt the Tribe's playoff chances?

The problem is the Tribe is hurting right now with Choo and White out for a while and who knows when Grady will be back. Fausto has really been struggling and Tomlin has not been pitching that well since June 1. Gomez and McAllister got spot starts and did not impress. I don't know who we could trade right now that has value to a contending team but is a replaceable part for the Tribe.

Joe Smith comes to mind because he is having a career year and his value will never be higher, plus we have some tremendous BP prospects in the minors. However, I'm almost positive the Tribe does not want to bring up a guy who's never thrown a major league pitch and ask him to play a key role during a pennant race.

If we ever had a chance to unload Travis Hafner's contract, this would be the time considering the year he's having. But trading Hafner would be throwing in the towel and the Tribe won't do that.

I can't see us getting anything of value for OCab, Hannahan, Herrmann, Durbin, Kearns, Talbot or Buck. Those are the players we could probably afford to "sell" without hurting our playoff chances. Since Acta said it's an "understatement" that the Tribe needs to make a trade, I can't see them doing the opposite and selling off talent that they can't immediately replace.

It's funny how even a "sellers" thread turns into a "buyers" thread and shifts to virtually the same discussion as 3 other threads.

As for the OP question, I think so. Guys who I would listen to offers about are Orlando Cabrera, Joe Smith, and Raffy Perez. Truthfully, there's not much else that makes sense selling. Durbin/Herrmann are obviously guys I would be willing to part with too but they wouldn't get anything in return, I'd be just as willing to send them down to AAA/release them. As for Hafner, Sizemore, or Choo, I don't think they would return what they're valued at this point so I wouldn't trade them unless it was a good offer. Do we get compensation if we decline Sizemore's option? If we don't and the F.O. doesn't plan to pick it up, then they should definitely trade him.

Actually, I think I would be willing to listen to offers for Chris Perez too. His stock might be at an all-time high and would bring back more in return than any of the other guys listed.

entertheshoe wrote:It's funny how even a "sellers" thread turns into a "buyers" thread and shifts to virtually the same discussion as 3 other threads.

As for the OP question, I think so. Guys who I would listen to offers about are Orlando Cabrera, Joe Smith, and Raffy Perez. Truthfully, there's not much else that makes sense selling. Durbin/Herrmann are obviously guys I would be willing to part with too but they wouldn't get anything in return, I'd be just as willing to send them down to AAA/release them. As for Hafner, Sizemore, or Choo, I don't think they would return what they're valued at this point so I wouldn't trade them unless it was a good offer. Do we get compensation if we decline Sizemore's option? If we don't and the F.O. doesn't plan to pick it up, then they should definitely trade him.

Actually, I think I would be willing to listen to offers for Chris Perez too. His stock might be at an all-time high and would bring back more in return than any of the other guys listed.

Yeah go figure.

Anyways, I think trading Perez would be a really bad move PR wise, I agree his value is probably at its highest however I can't the the front office pulling a move on that.

I would trade Perez in a deal for Kemp or Beltran possibly - (not a good fit for these 2 team IMO). Maybe there is a name that hasn't been floated that would be possible but as of now these are the only 2 names that would get Perez in the talks.

Tondo wrote:Shields proposal has to start with Pomeranz...anythin else they won't listen to

Melky is having a career year and is a sub .700 OPS hitter against LHP, don't know if he's a fit...he's also under their control, so if they let him go they want to cash in, which means they probably start with Kipnis...if not him a Wolters + Chen + SP...or Phelps + Chen + SP...that's pretty steep for a career .720 guy (nearly 3k ABs woth of track record), who is a 10/10 hitter in AVG years...this being his career year he can reach 15-20/15-20...but don't expect that going forward...he's also very inconsistent, a hot/cold hitter....he's not worth it imho

Also, with grady and Choo out..what we need is a #5, #6 type hitter...Melky isn't really. Willingham otoh fits the bill, a guy that gets on base and has power...a true middle of the order hitter, not cleanup good, bur good enough to hit behind one...his last 5 seasons his OPS was north of .800..do it, we won't get Beltran, so get the next best

Shields' replacement(s) are sitting in the Rays minors right now in the form of Matt Moore, Chris Archer and Alex Colome.. so it wouldn't be Pomeranz that the Rays would need.. They really need Carlos Santana, who, is not going to be traded.. NOT everyone wants who Indians fans think are their best "prospect". The Rays are a team that VALUES their prospects MORE than any other club in the baseball world. The Rays are in dire need of a near MLB Ready or MLB Ready everyday catcher as their first priority. (btw.. i'd consider moving Carlos Santana for Shields if the Ray & Indians expanded the deal to include Brandon Guyer and Alex Torres.. but the Indians would also have to include Jason Kipnis <== this is the kind of "deal" you see in fantasy baseball.. not IRL)...

As far as "The Melk Man" goes.. he's a fourth outfielder.. no more.. no less.. He's having a great season.. that's fine.. but he's still not worth much more than what was suggested...

We're not going to trade our closer who's 22-for-24 when we're within one game of 1st place in late July and we have nobody else with closer experience.

The bullpen has been a strong point and screwing it up now by trading Chris Perez, Raffie Perez, Sipp or even Smith would be idiotic. The bullpen is the one thing that is working right now, that and Astrubal, Pronk, Brantley, and Masterson.

I just don't see the Indians as being sellers - their roster is depleted by injuries to Grady, Choo, White, and Talbot, and they don't have any quality players that are replaceable.

With all the names being bandied about, the one name that keeps coming back is Michael Morse of the Nats. He's able to play LF/1B/DH.. he's a good player having a good season. He hits from the right side, but hits lefties and righties about the same. He hits in clutch situations and he has some power... The Nats are clearly "out of it" and need EVERY THING. There has to be a way for the Indians & Nationals to make a deal that makes sense for both clubs going forward..

Perhaps a package of Beau Mills (selling high) and a MiLB Arm that is near mlb ready would do the trick?

GeronimoSon wrote:With all the names being bandied about, the one name that keeps coming back is Michael Morse of the Nats. He's able to play LF/1B/DH.. he's a good player having a good season. He hits from the right side, but hits lefties and righties about the same. He hits in clutch situations and he has some power... The Nats are clearly "out of it" and need EVERY THING. There has to be a way for the Indians & Nationals to make a deal that makes sense for both clubs going forward..

Perhaps a package of Beau Mills (selling high) and a MiLB Arm that is near mlb ready would do the trick?

If that minor league arm is Pomeranz, then yes it would do the trick. Yes, exaggerating there, but Mills and really any of our near ML ready arms (other than Pom) aren't gonna sniff Morse who is in the midsts of his 2nd straight solid year and is under team control for a while longer. I mean, if they'd take Gomez or McAllister and Mills for Morse I'd do it yesterday. Morse has been almost Bautista-like since May 1st with a .344/.396/.643/1.039 batting line and 16 HRs and 43 RBIs in only 55 starts (224 at-bats).

I don't see a 4th/5th starter and Rule 5 eligible non-spec getting him. But would be amazing if it did.

He was referring to Melky who isn't on the Indians. The "Emm-Cee" was referring to Ezequiel I'm assuming

No.. you're wrong again.. you have enough trouble thinking for yourself..let alone attempting to think for someone else. you should stop that.. I was referring to Em-Cee for Melky Cabrera (as a potential trade target for the Indians).... not Ezequiel Carrera who's sir name is different and who I have referred as Zeke the Streak more than once on this blog.. btw.. ed's comment wasn't about who was already on the Indians, it was a good natured play on the difficulty an announcer would have with so many Cabrera's on one team.... too bad you had to think...

GeronimoSon wrote: No.. you're wrong again.. you have enough trouble thinking for yourself..let alone attempting to think for someone else. you should stop that.. I was referring to Em-Cee for Melky Cabrera (as a potential trade target for the Indians).... not Ezequiel Carrera who's sir name is different and who I have referred as Zeke the Streak more than once on this blog.. btw.. ed's comment wasn't about who was already on the Indians, it was a good natured play on the difficulty an announcer would have with so many Cabrera's on one team.... too bad you had to think...

First off, was Chad's comment, not mine. I was just commenting on it. Second... is there really a need for such hostility over such an easy mistake to make? If you two want to have a pissing match, could you at least confine it to a single thread?

GeronimoSon wrote: No.. you're wrong again.. you have enough trouble thinking for yourself..let alone attempting to think for someone else. you should stop that.. I was referring to Em-Cee for Melky Cabrera (as a potential trade target for the Indians).... not Ezequiel Carrera who's sir name is different and who I have referred as Zeke the Streak more than once on this blog.. btw.. ed's comment wasn't about who was already on the Indians, it was a good natured play on the difficulty an announcer would have with so many Cabrera's on one team.... too bad you had to think...

First off, was Chad's comment, not mine. I was just commenting on it. Second... is there really a need for such hostility over such an easy mistake to make? If you two want to have a pissing match, could you at least confine it to a single thread?

I have no desire to have a pissing contest with a self absorbed, thinks he's always right, arrogant, traffic watcher. Every comment I make. he responds with a snide and nasty P.O.S. answer.. He doesn't like to be riled.. so he gets riled until he quits. .I am a VERY patient person.

GeronimoSon wrote:I have no desire to have a pissing contest with a self absorbed, thinks he's always right, arrogant, traffic watcher. Every comment I make. he responds with a snide and nasty P.O.S. answer.. ..

ha, that first part is pretty funny.

And no, i don't always think I'm right. Unlike you (and ink), I admit when I'm wrong (which I was here, my bad).

As far as "selling", Foxsports is reporting that the Indians (and Pirates) have expressed interest in Rockies catcher Chris Ianetta. He's a righty who is hitting lefties much better than righties, so wouldn't be a great fit with Marson (if the were thinking of moving Santana to 1B).

As far as "selling", Foxsports is reporting that the Indians (and Pirates) have expressed interest in Rockies catcher Chris Ianetta. He's a righty who is hitting lefties much better than righties, so wouldn't be a great fit with Marson (if the were thinking of moving Santana to 1B).

Could mean they are open to moving Marson in the right deal.

Don't see how that changes anything. Marson absolutely kills leftys. He is hitting .362 with an OPS of 1.000 exactly. I am pretty sure he has the best splits against leftys on the team. I think too many people have given up on Marson prematurely.

As far as "selling", Foxsports is reporting that the Indians (and Pirates) have expressed interest in Rockies catcher Chris Ianetta. He's a righty who is hitting lefties much better than righties, so wouldn't be a great fit with Marson (if the were thinking of moving Santana to 1B).

Could mean they are open to moving Marson in the right deal.

Don't see how that changes anything. Marson absolutely kills leftys. He is hitting .362 with an OPS of 1.000 exactly. I am pretty sure he has the best splits against leftys on the team. I think too many people have given up on Marson prematurely.

This was not about giving up on Marson, quite the opposite actually. I still think Marson has the potential to be an All-Star catcher in this league (I mean if Russell Martin can make it this year the bar is pretty low). But with him stuck behind Santana...he may have more value in a trade. "may" is the key word there though. He obviously brings a lot to the Indians. But I do think the Indians should keep an open mind about possibly dealing Marson. Good, young catching is hard to find so a team may overpay.

I am not a fan of bringing in Ianetta to simply replace Marson on the big league roster and sending him to AAA. Not really sure what the accomplishes.

As far as "selling", Foxsports is reporting that the Indians (and Pirates) have expressed interest in Rockies catcher Chris Ianetta. He's a righty who is hitting lefties much better than righties, so wouldn't be a great fit with Marson (if the were thinking of moving Santana to 1B).

Could mean they are open to moving Marson in the right deal.

Don't see how that changes anything. Marson absolutely kills leftys. He is hitting .362 with an OPS of 1.000 exactly. I am pretty sure he has the best splits against leftys on the team. I think too many people have given up on Marson prematurely.

This was not about giving up on Marson, quite the opposite actually. I still think Marson has the potential to be an All-Star catcher in this league (I mean if Russell Martin can make it this year the bar is pretty low). But with him stuck behind Santana...he may have more value in a trade. "may" is the key word there though. He obviously brings a lot to the Indians. But I do think the Indians should keep an open mind about possibly dealing Marson. Good, young catching is hard to find so a team may overpay.

I am not a fan of bringing in Ianetta to simply replace Marson on the big league roster and sending him to AAA. Not really sure what the accomplishes.

Completely Agree. I love sweet Lou, but if were talking about being sellers, he is definitely the most valuable and most expendable trade chip we have on this team. Having a good defensive catcher is a priority in this league, but having a good offensive catcher is a luxery. Lou still has the ceiling to hit .270-.280 if he gets everyday at bats, along with providing excellent defense and a good feel for calling games. It would not be crazy to think that Lou Marson may be are most attractive piece of trade bait outside of our top 4 prospects.

If we look at all the teams who have players we have been talking about acquiring (Astros, Royals, Nationals, Rays, A's, Padres, Mets), only the A's have catchers that have a ceiling higher than Lou's. I personally like the idea of trading for Melky and would think that Lou would be a player that must be included to acquire him. Also, the Rays would probably make Lou a mandatory piece if the indians inquired about BJ Upton (I really hope they dont).

We all know that it is very unlikely the indians offer up any of the top 4 prospects, but if we managed to pull off a deal for one of the higher level available players without giving up one of our top for, I would be extremely shocked if Lou was not involved, and in an attempt to keep this post on topic, It also wouldnt surprise me if a couple contenders like the Pirates and Giants have called inquiring about Lou.

I have given some thought to the original issue and decided that the Indians are not likely contenders if the are "sellers". I firmly believe that far more talent exists within the organization in replacements for potential "sellees" like OCab, Kearns, Duncan, Hannahan, Buck, Talbot, Durbin and Herrmann et al, but there is no escaping the "truth" that lack of experience is a major drawback this year in contending. We just cannot escape the fact that players like Sizemore, Carmona and Choo have performed far below expectations even when they are not injured. Among the Indians' position players who are not playing regularly for their first full year, only AsCab and Masterson, other than RPs, have really performed in a positive fashion all year. It is unfair, IMO, to expect first year regulars like Santana, Marson, LaPorta, Brantley, Pestano, Carrasco and Tomlin to perform like "veterans". I, for one, certainly do not expect that "veteran" performance from the "new guys" this year or next, no matter haw talented they appear. If they can contend, win or lose, so much the better! Experience gained is experience earned. BTW, if anyone thinks I do not want the Indians to contend and win this year, then they have no idea of the value to me of a $100 wager in the sports book at Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas last December.