After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.Tiny |-aEVE Online Customer Support Team | Game Master

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

thank you for responding :) i appreciate how the problem happened with the changing of code... but it was disconcerting how there was no response for days about this... thanks :)

Posted - 2012.05.02 19:12:00 -
[154] - Quote
I believe the Corporate Hangars on an Orca should work as follows:

The Orca pilot should be allowed to let Fleet members add and/or remove items from the hangar at will. The setting would be a box for "Allow Fleet Member Access". A drop-down box with the following 3 options would set the ability: 1. Allow Add, 2. Allow Remove, 3. Allow Add/Remove.

Hangar names are nice if you want specific fleet members to put items into specific areas; but, I don't see a point of them having anything to do with a corporation. I think a renaming from Corporate Hangars to Fleet Hangars would be a good decision.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

thanks! nice to see the community is being listened to, I was getting worried seeing the 8 page topic without any good response about a proper fix (reverting to fleet access).

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

If I'd like to support this should I launch a wave of petitions as well to make clear how appreciated this change is?

I don't think the CSM is very useful. It's reactionary at best. We need to have changes like this stopped before release.

We need a release manager that weighs in on behalf of the players. Someone who has release veto authority and assures that all the changes are documented in the release. And those changes don't have a severely negative impact on a large portion of the player community. It needs to be someone paid sitting with CCP and making sure the changes rolling o

The CSM can only give suggestions on issues that are brought to them. Greyscale needs to be more proactive on bringing things to their attention before he does them.

...

I think this one is the big WTF issue out of this particular incident. The rest of CCP was very straightforward about the changes proposed for this release. Did a great job.

The corp access code, I can't find any mention of proposed changes or even patch notes. As near as I can tell this wasn't shared with the CSM either.

Just seems like small group or individual hasn't gotten with the program yet? Or does this signal the beginning of a backslide?

Why rewrite the corp code, without any of the nuances added for fleets or alliances? Why think that's going to go over well as a stealth update?

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

Thank you,

That's very much appreciated as it was starting to look like we where going to get left twisting in the wind here on this issue.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Posted - 2012.05.03 00:28:00 -
[161] - Quote
Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

Thank you and the other GMs for stepping up to fill the communication void left by the devs; it is much appreciated. I hope we can get the fleet access back soon. I think we also need, after a week of being ignored, an explanation of how exactly this was allowed to happen in the first place, and what could be done to prevent this sort of unannounced change in the future.

I think we also need, after a week of being ignored, an explanation of how exactly this was allowed to happen in the first place, and what could be done to prevent this sort of unannounced change in the future.

Ideally, there ANY change that affects a module or ship should be at minimum in the patch notes, and probably announced a week or more ahead of time for feedback.

And that's with no exceptions.. No dev deciding it's not important, no one will notice, and not even it was never used/available to the general public. If it gets changed, it should be listed. Even if it's changing a feature on a Jove ship. That way nothing falls through the cracks, and we hopefully avoid situations like this, and with the Mines a few weeks back, in the future.

Also gives people a good idea exactly what to test on Sisi, ahead of time.. So that even IF this was an intentional change to the Orca, and is not gonna be reversed, there would have still been people on Sisi testing and finding the bugs with it being used by a NPC Player, and the like.

This is the set of functions that determines when a 'crime' has been committed, and what that response should be. It encapsulates not only security rating and ganking, but also can-flipping, etc. Fleet and corp rights are right in the thick of all that.

The lecture was about the reasons for the complete rewrite of the CrimeWatch system, and how they were going to go about it. The initial work on the rewrite was supposed to come out with Escalation.

So either 1) their changes broke the previous Orca behavour unintentionally, or 2) they don't have the time/priorities to make fleet access to the corp folders work at this time, so they intentionally dropped fleet access. Greyscale's initial answer sounds like option two - the Orca is now 'working as intended' .

With Orca corp hanger access tied to player corp rights, that should make corp hangar access impossible while the pilot is in an NPC corp.

We need CCP to get fleet access working as part of the Inferno release, at the lastest. Please!

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Posted - 2012.05.03 09:30:00 -
[167] - Quote
Don't hold your breath, many bugs that became feature got won this way by CCP - no consultation, no heads up, no ****-all, just implement and send the cry babies to go whine in the forums, they have your subscription anyway so could not really give a shite. Suppose the next step is a new toon to go help the can flippers and pirates until tritanium cost more than zydrine and everyone fly Ibis' as no-one can afford anything else - haha its a joke man. CCP is killing the game's reputation and once you go down that road the end is unavoidable - soon it will end up on the sad dead MMO heap with all the other MMO's that just could not be saved by adequate investor management and people that generally care more about the customer than the desires and needs of some pimple assed disgruntled dev - hard lesson to learn but apparently history repeats itself -LOL. Hope another game similar to EVE comes along before my EVE hit the 'who gives a ****' pile.

Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Can't stop the signal.

I just want to say thanks for looking into the possibility of thinking about changes that revert the evil that as occurred, sometime in the future.

Hopefully this means that something will happen soonish, which will allow us to continue as before. To be able to put ore in to the Orca again, somehow, would be great.

Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed.

Regards,KorStar

Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?

Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed.

Regards,KorStar

Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?

Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed.

Regards,KorStar

Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?

Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

Regards,KorStar

I mean that divisions in a corp hanger are allowed access via directors and ceo giving you access. Do you want the same kind of control for these fleet divisions? I thought the idea of having divisions strange in a fleet hanger because how would you allow access to each part or just a free for all?

On the note of your orca pilot keeping things separate... when does he dock? when the corp hanger is full or the cargobay and ore bay are full as well? Do they have containers marked div1-div7 in their cargobay? :P

Myself and my other accounts use the orca to provide fleet booting and support holding alliance level mining op. its crucial for fleet members from several corps in my alliance to all be able to use the hangers so they can mine directly into the ship. otherwise they have to jetcan and that leads to logistic complications of keeping track of what can belongs to whoom. the hangers should not be CORP hangers as those shouls be in stations or POS's they should be fleet or alliance hangers so that i also dont have to asssign hanger access to the diferent hangers . each of 7 people can claim a seperat hanger and be able to put tuff in and out and move it around.

also for alliance fleet ops where i am hauling supplies ammo and extra ships and equipment for alliance members when we go on raids. its critical that alliance members be able to access various hanger to re-equip and resupply the hip during fleet maneuvers..

This, if they do a 'fleet hanger', it is crucial that there be at least the same amount of divisions as the corporate hanger used to have. Any other implementation will severely alter and complicate fleet mining ops as that is a critical function of categorizing and segregating miners ore when providing mining boost and platform services to other players most often in other NPC and player corporations. This is severely killing my line of business I developed.

Regards,KorStar

Why would a fleet hanger have divisions? That doesn't make much sense. Do you mean a division for each wing and each squad?

Corp hangers have divisions, I have fleet members dump ore into specific divisions to keep everything separate for mining operations. For combat operations, much the same process. If they want to implement fleet hangers, they simply need to keep the same amount of divisions. It doesnt have to make sense to you but is a method that many of us orca pilots use for organization.

Regards,KorStar

I mean that divisions in a corp hanger are allowed access via directors and ceo giving you access. Do you want the same kind of control for these fleet divisions? I thought the idea of having divisions strange in a fleet hanger because how would you allow access to each part or just a free for all?

On the note of your orca pilot keeping things separate... when does he dock? when the corp hanger is full or the cargobay and ore bay are full as well? Do they have containers marked div1-div7 in their cargobay? :P

There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining ) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there . I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc .

There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining ) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there . I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc .

Regards,KorStar

You almost completely ignored what I asked.

I wasn't asking what you use the divisions for. I asked how would you go about controlling who has access to the different divisions. If I was to guess from your answer I'd say you don't want control of access to it or anything like that. You just want a way to keep things from different pilots in separate areas so it is easier for you to keep track of. Was that so hard to say?

40,000 is a small part of the Orca's total capacity. Pity you can't put containers in the ore bay.

There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers. The divisions alone allow for separation of ore and material (I dont offer orca services for just mining ) For mining, yes, all the holds gets filled up, thats silly to do or even suggest otherwise, to paint the picture even clearer for you to understand is the divisions allow me to ensure each pilot that does dump ore in, to be properly compensated either in isk or refined minerals for a fee by being able to tally and account for every unit/item that is deposited. Simply going by the fleet loot history is asking to be ripped off and I shouldnt need to explain the how's and why's there . I run a business, the business depends on corporate hangers with their divisions and other players being allowed to dump items into those divisions. The only other option is jet canning which takes away revenue from my business as part of the fees I charge is for miners not having to worry about can flippers, outright theft etc .

Regards,KorStar

You almost completely ignored what I asked.

I wasn't asking what you use the divisions for. I asked how would you go about controlling who has access to the different divisions. If I was to guess from your answer I'd say you don't want control of access to it or anything like that. You just want a way to keep things from different pilots in separate areas so it is easier for you to keep track of. Was that so hard to say?

"There was no permissions on the divisions of corp hangers of the orca to prevent dropping items into the separate divisions so I would expect the same if they change corporate hangers to fleet hangers." Those were the only permissions I care about getting back asap. If I were to make a suggestion, I think if they moved to fleet hangers, Take, View and Put should each be configurable by division/tab down to the pilot level. IE division/tab 1 could be Take View and Put for the whole fleet, division/tab 2 could be Take View and Put for only squad 1, division/tab 3 could be Put for the whole fleet, division/tab 4 could be View and Put for only Pilot non judgement, and so on.

Quote:

Also you are only talking about divisions in the corp hanger. How do you do the same with ore bay and normal cargo bay? :P 40,000 is a small part of the Orca's total capacity. Pity you can't put containers in the ore bay.

By the time the ore is shifted from the divisions, I already added those units to that pilots sheet so I dont need containers for organization beyond the corporate hanger divisions but the little bit of extra room containers offer would be nice in the ore hold but CCP has made it clear that wont happen which is fine by me. I could draw pictures and flow charts but I truely hope you get the point by now...

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)

We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.Senior Server Programmer

We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.

After reviewing many of the petitions regarding this change, us Game Masters have been in contact with our developers due to the concerns raised by players, both through the petition system and on the forums. I wanted you guys to know that we are looking into reverting these changes and we will be sure to keep you guys posted.

The revert is now pending deployment.

Thankyou very much :)

Is this a permanent revert, or is the Corp/Fleet hanger idea going to be looked at/implemented in the (near)future ? I know I posted my ideas for how to do it eariler in the thread, but that has probably been lost in everything else that has happened.

It would be nice to have a discussion on it, see what the plans are, and ideally, come up with a plan that everyone is happy with :)

We pretty much all want the corp hangar in ships to go away, or at least remove the ability for fleet members to access it since that thing just doesn't jive with the access control system for corp hangars. The general consensus seems to be that fleet hangars is the way forward for at least the Orca, but Grayscale is still mulling over the details of how/who and when to do it.

So, consider this revert permanent and the fleet hangar idea being on the drawing board.

thanks, this is the post most have been waiting patiently for.

However I am in no doubt some people wont let the fact the communication was as bad as it was go...

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