The metaphor by Douglas Dunn is that if one gives a young child an apple and a live chicken, the child would instinctively play with the chicken and eat the apple, whereas if a cat were presented with the same choices, its natural impulse would be the opposite.

I like that!

I was raised vegetarian (by hippy parents ) but chose to go my own way around 17-18 and eat meat.
This was before it was popular to be veggie. I was treated as a bit of a weirdo at school, but everyone seemed to be interested in my healthy lunch box as opposed to the mushy crap they got served for school 'dinners'.

So I've eaten meat for almost 20 years now ( one for the How old are you? thread!) I don't have any issues with killing animals, like dyna-ti says, what's the different between killing a cow to a fly? I think it's more important to eat a balanced, healthy diet and eating is also one of life's biggest pleasures, why miss out on trying all you can?

One thing ive never understood is why do some vegetarians eat fish and chicken or just fish? i know like al said its my choice ill do what i please, but is red meat worse because the animal is likely to be bigger or do you just not like the taste?

Its interesting to view the biological reasons why humans arent really supposed to eat meat - this really interested me as I researched all forms of evidence that made the subject even more interesting:

1) Our canine teeth are not "real canines" - these are designed for grabbing and tearing fruit. Proper 'carnivore canines' are vastly different: larger, sharper and are designed for tearing and grabbing flesh etc.

2) Our intestine tract is a complicated one. Its more akin to herbivores to that of a dog or typical meat eating animal. Meat in our intestine tract sits there for a good while longer (which is bad) wheras a carnivore tends to pass it through quicker.

3) Our jaws move sideways - akin to grazers and herbivores. carnivores cannot "chew" as such (to break down veg). Their mouths are built for tearing and biting.

4) Why cant humans eat raw meat? Funny that isnt it? We find it very difficult to digest meat as we dont have the chemical compositions in out stomachs to break it down enough. We have to cook everything to break down cells etc. Also the bacteria associated with uncooked meat is something humans cant deal with (whereas a dog etc = happy days)

5) Milk. Its designed for baby cows. Thats why the fat content is so HUUUGGEEE as its designed to keep cows growing in their infancy. This is why we have to do funky things to it to get it FAT free etc. doesnt seem very logical does it...

6) Protein. There is more protein in nuts, beans etc that you'd get from "plucked" sources than in meat. Meat is full of the animal fat (bad for you) and not the fat that is good for you.

7) This is interesting too:

The metaphor by Douglas Dunn is that if one gives a young child an apple and a live chicken, the child would instinctively play with the chicken and eat the apple, whereas if a cat were presented with the same choices, its natural impulse would be the opposite.

Anyway - good debate - keep it coming.

(Off for a bacon sandwich)

All that is very interesting and the arguments are compelling I've heard them before and the same is true now as it was the first time round.

We're not carnivores like dogs or cats.

We're omnivores like chimpanzees and a lot of other apes and monkeys.

We possibly do originate from vegetarian apes way back in our prehistory but we developed a brain like no other which requires huge amounts of energy to work and (in this instance more importantly) protein to develop which was made easier by complimenting our diet with meat.

The cooked meat argument is more to do with the quantities of meat we eat and our changed lifestyle as is the high fat content of our food. Our eating habits and lifestyle are changing much faster than we can evolve.

Ironic that we are intelligent enough to conceptualise and have moral arguments about how we shouldn't eat flesh when our brains developed to be able to because we did.

The metaphor by Douglas Dunn is that if one gives a young child an apple and a live chicken, the child would instinctively play with the chicken and eat the apple, whereas if a cat were presented with the same choices, its natural impulse would be the opposite.

Lets be fair and make the cat a kitten
Kitten wants to play with the apple but is scared of the chicken

Incidentally it has been found that only feral cats will kill a chicken,domestic cats are afraid of them

Hold on ,chickens are carnivores right ,well in this day and age we can replace the chickens natural diet with a completely man made one
Thus saving the worms and grubs from an untimely death

A person that eats fish is a pescetarian and someone that eats birds is just a bit odd!

Cheers,Al

Hi mate!,,
well that clears that up so a person that thinks they are a veggie but still eats fish is like a person that puts deore dx on a top flite frame, and a person that eats birds is like a person that puts modern parts on a retro frameset ie "just a bit odd"

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