Honda Delays CR-V Engine Fix but Details Rollout Plans

Honda Delays CR-V Engine Fix but Details Rollout PlansRepairs will start in five cold-weather states
By Jeff Plungis
October 30, 2018
146 SHARESCR-V engine fix in December for models with a faulty turbocharged engine that can leak gasoline into the oil system. But the automaker will focus initially on just five northern states: Maine, Minnesota, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Wisconsin. And the company is delaying the repair from its original November timetable.

Honda says the fix will apply to all 2017 and 2018 Honda CR-Vs in those states with 1.5-liter turbo engines, which it estimates to be about 25,000 vehicles.

Over the following two months, the company will extend the fix to those vehicles in 16 additional states: Alaska, Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont.

Some owners of the compact SUV have reported that gasoline is mixing with the vehicle’s engine oil. As a result, they say that the oil level in their cars sometimes rises above the full line on the SUV’s dipstick. Others have reported a smell of gasoline in their cabin or heaters that don’t work in cold weather. Some have even said the problem caused their car to stall. (Read “Honda CR-V Affected by Engine Trouble.”)

Honda said that it began notifying dealers about the repair plan last week and that CR-V owners in the first five states should expect to get information about the repairs in the first week of December. Owners in the next 16 states should get repairs in the following two months, after additional parts become available.

In Canada, Honda plans to phase in the program beginning in November, starting in the colder parts of the country first, says Kate Lucek, spokesperson for Honda Canada. She says the company is also extending the warranty on certain engine components for six years with no mileage limits.

In addition, the repairs in Canada will include the Civic, Lucek says. A fix from Honda earlier this year in China also included the Civic, which has a similar engine. Honda isn’t including the Civic in its U.S. repair program but says its investigation into additional models is ongoing. CR has not seen concerns about the same problem with that car, either from our own members or in the database of consumer complaints maintained by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Consumer Reports’ car safety experts say that while the measures Honda is taking are a step in the right direction, they don’t go far enough. “While it makes sense to prioritize repairs by risk level, a lower-risk region still isn’t risk-free, and Honda leaves out far too many consumers who’ve reported this problem,” says David Friedman, vice president of advocacy for Consumer Reports.

“The company has a responsibility to provide data backing up why people in other states aren’t being included, and also needs to clearly demonstrate why—if vehicles are stalling, as some owners say—this is not a safety issue requiring an official recall.”

A still image from a video shows a CR-V dipstick indicating that there is too much fluid.
PHOTO: HONDA VIA YOUTUBEReports Still Flowing In
In the weeks since Consumer Reports published an article about engine problemswith the 2017 and 2018 Honda CR-V, dozens of our members in the U.S. and Canada reached out to share their stories.

Several said that their engine stalled or went into “limp mode,” and that in some cases their cars had to be towed. Many worried that stalling or reduced power could be dangerous, especially if it happened while they were driving on a busy highway.

Others said Honda told them that to address the problem they should change the way they drive their CR-Vs—for example, by driving in Sport Mode to make the engine run hotter. Others were told they should avoid short trips or use only premium fuel.

One CR member, Joe Ehlers of Duluth, Minn., told us that Honda was buying back his CR-V.

Ehlers said he began noticing problems with his 2017 Honda CR-V less than three months after he bought it. Ehlers said he noticed fuel odors and an occasional rotten-egg smell inside and around the car. The engine sometimes drove roughly, more like a diesel than a gasoline-powered vehicle, he said. In at least two cases, all the dashboard lights lit up while driving, and the car lost power, Ehlers said.

He’s now had five premature oil changes and hired a lawyer to press a lemon law claim. After CR’s article on the problem was published Oct. 5, Honda made an offer to buy back his CR-V, and Ehlers says he plans to accept that offer.

The Honda CR-V turbocharged four-cylinder engine.A Cold-Weather Problem?
Honda spokesman Chris Martin says the company’s investigation found that the problem occurs in vehicles that have been driven frequently for short distances in extreme cold weather in northern states.

But some consumers say the problem occurs in warmer-weather states, too. For example, CR has heard from CR-V owners in Arizona, California, Delaware, Texas, and Nevada. And the database maintained by NHTSA includes accounts of this oil-gas mixture problem from CR-V owners in Kentucky, Oregon, Tennessee, and Virginia.

None of those consumers live in states that would be covered by Honda’s planned “regional product update campaign.” Owners in any of the noncovered states who believe they’re experiencing the problem can take their vehicle to an authorized Honda dealership for diagnosis, Martin says.

“Dealer technicians can work with Honda’s technical assistance hotline to help determine if there is a problem, and any necessary repairs can be addressed under the limited warranty,” Martin says.

A still image from a video shows how gasoline sneaks past the piston.
PHOTO: HONDA VIA YOUTUBEHow Oil and Gasoline Mix
Several Honda CR-V owners who have contacted Consumer Reports have said that their cars have stalled or that the cars’ check-engine lights have come on, problems they attribute to the oil-dilution problem.

Martin, at Honda, says the company thinks it’s unlikely that those problems stem from the oil-fuel mixture problem.

“I will not discount comments by our customers, but it is possible that some of the reported experiences could be linked to other individual causes unrelated to this issue,” he says. “We have not confirmed any cases of engine stalling related to this issue.”

Honda has posted a video on YouTube that tries to explain the oil-dilution problem. The video says that, under certain circumstances, fuel injectors can spray gasoline inside their engine cylinders that sticks to the cylinder walls and isn’t fully combusted. The gasoline then can drip into the crankcase and mix with the engine oil.

Sometimes, the video says, enough gasoline mixes with the oil so that the lubricant level exceeds the full line on the dipstick. The video says that in most cases, that’s okay. “What you’re seeing is a normal occurrence for this engine,” the video states.

Honda CR-V Is Still Recommended
Some of our members noted that they purchased their CR-Vs based on Consumer Reports’ recommendations, and they wondered whether CR was going to change its ratings. The answer is “not yet.”

“We continue to recommend the model,” Fisher says. “It’s only a tiny fraction of CR-V owners that are experiencing oil dilution. But for those owners who are, it’s a very serious issue.”

CR will stay in touch with its members about how their SUVs are working after the engine repairs are rolled out in December. We’ll be continuing to monitor consumers’ experiences, so keep sharing stories

For the TLDR people:Change your oil at appropriate times and you won't have an issue. We have actual data to back this up.

As somebody who understands engines, has built engines, and designs cars for a living (3 years in fuel system design), I don't see any possibility of a "software update" fixing the mechanical problem direct injection inherently has with fuel dilution. The issue is present in ALL CARS, more prevalent in direct injection, and even more in turbo charge direct injected cars. This is not something new and it's not something that is going away. This is a case of a bunch of people who don't understand what they are reading becoming outraged at something they don't understand.

Unless your car is stalling out and going into limp mode from oil levels rising so high they cause an issue, you have nothing to worry about if you change your oil at appropriate intervals.

The only detriment fuel has to being present in oil is breaking down the oils viscosity, causing the oil to not perform as intended. This can be a serious issue, but it would take some very high levels of dilution.

We have loads of oil analysis reports collected from members of this site to investigate how serious of a problem this really is. All of the reports show some level of fuel dilution, some more than others. Not one single report shows oil viscosity at a critical level even after 10,000 mile intervals. My own personal reports are 10,000 mile intervals during Michigan winter.https://www.civicx.com/threads/oil-analysis-database.21607/#post-364703

I'm doing my best educate people on this wildfire of BS, but the media is all over this and spreading paranoia is what gets ad hits these days. By all means, go to the dealership and get their "software update fix". The only thing I expect that to do is limit boost before the car is up to temp, lean the A:F ratio until the car is to temp, and adjust the algorithm used to determine oil life. These changes will certainly effect the amount of dilution, but it will not remove it.

If it was B.S.? Why is Honda refunding in full Lemon Lawsuits? Why is Honda adding warranty? Offering free oil changes? Why are all the new 1.5T cars being stopped and patched before sale? There is a lot more to it than you know. My personal vehicle 2016 Civic EXT drained 4.5quarts on a 3.7quart fill 6 months ago. That I would consider dangerous viscosity.

For the TLDR people:Change your oil at appropriate times and you won't have an issue. We have actual data to back this up.

As somebody who understands engines, has built engines, and designs cars for a living (3 years in fuel system design), I don't see any possibility of a "software update" fixing the mechanical problem direct injection inherently has with fuel dilution. The issue is present in ALL CARS, more prevalent in direct injection, and even more in turbo charge direct injected cars. This is not something new and it's not something that is going away. This is a case of a bunch of people who don't understand what they are reading becoming outraged at something they don't understand.

Unless your car is stalling out and going into limp mode from oil levels rising so high they cause an issue, you have nothing to worry about if you change your oil at appropriate intervals.

The only detriment fuel has to being present in oil is breaking down the oils viscosity, causing the oil to not perform as intended. This can be a serious issue, but it would take some very high levels of dilution.

We have loads of oil analysis reports collected from members of this site to investigate how serious of a problem this really is. All of the reports show some level of fuel dilution, some more than others. Not one single report shows oil viscosity at a critical level even after 10,000 mile intervals. My own personal reports are 10,000 mile intervals during Michigan winter.https://www.civicx.com/threads/oil-analysis-database.21607/#post-364703

I'm doing my best educate people on this wildfire of BS, but the media is all over this and spreading paranoia is what gets ad hits these days. By all means, go to the dealership and get their "software update fix". The only thing I expect that to do is limit boost before the car is up to temp, lean the A:F ratio until the car is to temp, and adjust the algorithm used to determine oil life. These changes will certainly effect the amount of dilution, but it will not remove it.

If it was B.S.? Why is Honda refunding in full Lemon Lawsuits? Why is Honda adding warranty? Offering free oil changes? Why are all the new 1.5T cars being stopped and patched before sale? There is a lot more to it than you know. My personal vehicle 2016 Civic EXT drained 4.5quarts on a 3.7quart fill 6 months ago. That I would consider dangerous viscosity.

If it was B.S.? Why is Honda refunding in full Lemon Lawsuits? Why is Honda adding warranty? Offering free oil changes? Why are all the new 1.5T cars being stopped and patched before sale? There is a lot more to it than you know. My personal vehicle 2016 Civic EXT drained 4.5quarts on a 3.7quart fill 6 months ago. That I would consider dangerous viscosity.

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I answered this question in my reply in the other thread where you were saying the same things. Public outcry demands action. It doesn't cost Honda much money to do all the things you listed and make people feel better. I'd also bet a fair amount that I'm more privy to the inner workings of a auto manufacturer than you are.

Did you put the 3.7qts in your car? Did you drain it yourself? Dealerships overfill all the time. I've got the exact same car and my oil level didn't rise on my dipstick after 10,000 miles of winter driving on one oil change. If you took the time to go into the analysis database I keep posting you'd see that nobody has oil viscosity that is "dangerous" levels. YOU'RE ASSUMING it's dangerous, but you have nothing to back that statement up with. Unless you get an analysis of your oil done, you have no possible way to tell me the oil isn't doing it's job.

Yep, I did it myself. I've been on this issue from 5k miles. I always do my own oil changes. Honda does state that more than 5% gas in the oil is too high effecting the weight of the oil. More than 5% fuel mixed will cause premature engine wear. I guess you need to do your research. If you add fuel to oil it's no longer 0-20. 0-20 oil is the exact weight you need for your car. Currently the only answer to the issue is change the oil every 3-5k miles. The Honda dealer did analyze my oil and found high level of fuel in it. It was tested but they wont give me a copy of the results nor will the state in the service papers the actual issue. Only my solution as of now. It's real sketchy how they are handling it. My 2017 blew a oil pan seal because of the same issue.

I answered this question in my reply in the other thread where you were saying the same things. Public outcry demands action. It doesn't cost Honda much money to do all the things you listed and make people feel better. I'd also bet a fair amount that I'm more privy to the inner workings of a auto manufacturer than you are.

Did you put the 3.7qts in your car? Did you drain it yourself? Dealerships overfill all the time. I've got the exact same car and my oil level didn't rise on my dipstick after 10,000 miles of winter driving on one oil change. If you took the time to go into the analysis database I keep posting you'd see that nobody has oil viscosity that is "dangerous" levels. YOU'RE ASSUMING it's dangerous, but you have nothing to back that statement up with. Unless you get an analysis of your oil done, you have no possible way to tell me the oil isn't doing it's job.

Yep, I did it myself. I've been on this issue from 5k miles. I always do my own oil changes. Honda does state that more than 5% gas in the oil is too high effecting the weight of the oil. More than 5% fuel mixed will cause premature engine wear. I guess you need to do your research. If you add fuel to oil it's no longer 0-20. 0-20 oil is the exact weight you need for your car. Currently the only answer to the issue is change the oil every 3-5k miles. The Honda dealer did analyze my oil and found high level of fuel in it. It was tested but they wont give me a copy of the results nor will the state in the service papers the actual issue. Only my solution as of now. It's real sketchy how they are handling it. My 2017 blew a oil pan seal because of the same issue.

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I need to do my research he says.... Buddy, not only have I done my research, I've done my own testing and validation.

This is my 10,000 mile through the winter Honda 0w20 analysis. This is the worst report out of all the analysis, but it shows the oil is doing it's job still. I personally would not recommend running Honda's oil to 10k ever. My MM said oil was at 15% when I changed it at 10,000 miles.
Now let's compare the Honda to some quality oil. This is AMSOIL Signature Series 0w20. My recommendation to anybody who is concerned with fuel dilution is to switch to a quality synthetic. This was used through spring and summer, so no real cold weather but the fuel dilution is exactly the same. The viscosity has barely dropped at all. You can clearly see I do not have elevated wear metals in either report. MM said oil was at 15% again. I would be comfortable running it another 2k, but I see no reason to exceed 10k intervals for my driving habits.