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Re: New black quarterbacks club

Woah there, thats a bit of a stretch. Higher education is readily available to blacks and other minorities who make it out of primary and secondary schools in tact. Which is not a large ammount.

If you don't understand, you need to spend some time checking out the Baltimore City school system, or any other urban minority dominated school system. Since their budgets are based on property taxes, and property value is horidly low in the cities, they have no budget. Additionally, there is a viscious cycle in such school that keep children from appreciating education properly, part of which starts at home and can be blamed on inner city parents. Of course, the plight of those lower class parents can also be attributed to other structural issues.

As a black Ivy-leager, I can say that apart from good parenting or good genetics I probabaly benefit the most from being public schooled in Pikesville with a large majority jewish population who were already academically oriented.

In any case, the real issue here is that a black QB group recognizes implicity some stereotypes that are negative.

ON the pre-determining of position in football, I do agree that that is an issue.

But should we see a white-running-backs or cornerbacks club? Or a jewish or asian club or all positions? It just gets silly.

Mulitalo and Ngata and others of polynesian descent seem to do a good job of having a sense of community without forming an official group.

IN any case, they have a right to form the group, but I feel like its unnecessary and probably reinforcing some stereotypes.

I agree with you to an extent, and I am familiar with the condition of the Baltimore City public school system, but I think the educational problems with inner city minorities are largely problems that stem from home, and result from certain cultural influences. I do understand, however, that a lot of these kids aren't really given much of a chance and the problems that plague these inner-city schools cannot be articulated in a single post.

However, it ulitmately comes down to personal responsibility. No one is forcing these kids out of school. Because of certain entitlement programs, AA, social promotion, etc., higher education (in many instances) has lowered it's standards. There are other reasons for the decline in the quality of education that many of these institutions offer, but I think that this movement to push underqualified minority candidates (that would be better off AT LEAST starting off at a community college level) to the college level is a big mistake. It not only hurts them, but it's at the expense of others.

Many have taken the point of view that public and higher education (especially higher) should be a guaranteed right and should be made available to ALL people. Now, because of this attitude, obtaining a college degree has become less significant, many useless departments have been created, and college has become a place of vacation for MANY students.

It's not a stretch at all to say that minorities have college education more readily available to them. Graduate from high school, and you're essentially set as a minority. That's what affirmative action has created. Many colleges and universities have a quota to fill; admission requirements are lowered in order to accomodate minority candidates (usually regardless of their personal financial situation).

This is really beside the point. I completely agree with you on the "Black QB's Club" situation; I really don't think there is a need to create such a group.

In my mind, racial divides (as I said earlier) only become more defined when people are constantly (or making a point to) recognizing the differences in one another. It's pointless and trivial. Morgan Freeman actually made some great points awhile back about black history month and the ongoing racial discussions in this country. He made the point that black history is American history, and that it shouldn't be relegated to one month of the year. He also discussed that racism will cease as soon as people stop talking about it.

I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion, I'm simply defending my stance on the education issue.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by festivus

Why shouldn't I be tolerant of the United Negro College Fund, Black Entertainment Television, or Miss Black America?

White students are overwhelmingly represented at colleges, white characters are overwhelmingly represented on tv, and white contestants are (forgive me guessing here, haven't seen many) well represented in beauty pageants. I don't feel like I'm losing anything because of the existence of institutions serving minority populations.

Why shouldn't I be tolerant of minority organizations of attorneys, or accountants, or engineers? It doesn't bother *me*. I'm just a regular white guy, and regular tv, beauty pageants and college educations are already there for me, if I want them.

Best response ever! My respect for you has grown even more. Whites don't have to assemble, because (duh) they are the majority in this country.....for now. Minority groups are formed for self-empowerment. They are not trying to hide behind masks and white robes, to kill a group of people, like a certain cowardly group used many years ago.

What McNair and the other African American QBs are doing is assembling a group for the purpose of encouraging other minorities to pursue a career as a QB in the NFL. For years, whites have stated that African Americans were not smart enough to man the QB position. That stereotype was proven wrong.

As festivus stated, if you want to see whites assemble, just turn on ABC, CBS, FOX and NBC. Turn on any beauty pagent. Hell, watch "Friends." I watch Friends and there is not a speck of "Black" on that show.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by LBoogy

I agree with you to an extent, and I am familiar with the condition of the Baltimore City public school system, but I think the educational problems with inner city minorities are largely problems that stem from home, and result from certain cultural influences. I do understand, however, that a lot of these kids aren't really given much of a chance and the problems that plague these inner-city schools cannot be articulated in a single post.

However, it ulitmately comes down to personal responsibility. No one is forcing these kids out of school. Because of certain entitlement programs, AA, social promotion, etc., higher education (in many instances) has lowered it's standards. There are other reasons for the decline in the quality of education that many of these institutions offer, but I think that this movement to push underqualified minority candidates (that would be better off AT LEAST starting off at a community college level) to the college level is a big mistake. It not only hurts them, but it's at the expense of others.

Many have taken the point of view that public and higher education (especially higher) should be a guaranteed right and should be made available to ALL people. Now, because of this attitude, obtaining a college degree has become less significant, many useless departments have been created, and college has become a place of vacation for MANY students.

It's not a stretch at all to say that minorities have college education more readily available to them. Graduate from high school, and you're essentially set as a minority. That's what affirmative action has created. Many colleges and universities have a quota to fill; admission requirements are lowered in order to accomodate minority candidates (usually regardless of their personal financial situation).

This is really beside the point. I completely agree with you on the "Black QB's Club" situation; I really don't think there is a need to create such a group.

In my mind, racial divides (as I said earlier) only become more defined when people are constantly (or making a point to) recognizing the differences in one another. It's pointless and trivial. Morgan Freeman actually made some great points awhile back about black history month and the ongoing racial discussions in this country. He made the point that black history is American history, and that it shouldn't be relegated to one month of the year. He also discussed that racism will cease as soon as people stop talking about it.

I don't mean to turn this into a political discussion, I'm simply defending my stance on the education issue.

Bottom line: a black QB's club is stupid.

Blah, Blah, Blah. It is funny how you will write a long (winded) essay-ish thread -saying the same thing- everytime an issue of race comes up. You are predictable and typical. That further reveals your real feelings on race matters.

Of course you would see no need for a Black QBs Club. Of course, you see the club as "stupid." Newsflash: Who cares what you think!?! You are not going to stop it from happening.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by LBoogy

Whites being overwhelmingly represented at college and on tv? Could that be because whites are the MAJORITY in this country, and blacks only make up only 12%? Things shouldn't be 50-50. However, by the incessant pandering to minorties in this country (mainly blacks), you would think that those percentages would be different. Don't even get me started on the education issue. Education is MORE readily available to minorities. Higher education has become a joke.

Look, I think judging people based on their race is a horrible thing. I also think that creating exclusive groups based on race, affirmative action programs, and simple social promotion are also horrible things.

Creating a black quarterbacks club is only furthering racial divides (as others have said). Race will no longer be an issue until people on both sides stop making it an issue. On top of that, it all starts at home. No amount of federal programs and dollars will fix racism and the many struggles that minority groups experience. It's on them. It's on many minorities to establish a strong family structure and moral fabric.

Bottom line: I don't think creating a black QB's club or creating television channels for one race will repair much of anything. It simply deepens the divides.

Wow, talk about contradicting yourself. You said that folks should stop making race an issue, yet you state that because whites "are the MAJORITY in this country" they should get some special privilege over others. You also, have attacked minority groups all throughout this post, yet "folks should stop making race an issue."

1. You think that "judging people based on their race is a horrible thing." Well, son, you have done a horrible thing. The lack of a strong family structure and moral fabric is not just prevalent within minority families as you have stated...in ignorant fashion. Last I checked, there are many broken white families out there with a lack of moral fiber.

2. A Black QBs Group is not going impact race relations in America any more or less than it has already been impacted. It's a football group.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

"You also, have attacked minority groups all throughout this post..."

I must have missed those. What "attacks"? Unledd you mean where he said people have to be accountable. I guess some individuals might construe a suggestion to be responsible and be civilized as an attack.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by PurpleRulz

What McNair and the other African American QBs are doing is assembling a group for the purpose of encouraging other minorities to pursue a career as a QB in the NFL. For years, whites have stated that African Americans were not smart enough to man the QB position. That stereotype was proven wrong.

Worst response EVER. How do Black's NEED this club? They are already more then DOUBLY represented as NFL QB's. What I mean, is that a race that makes up 12.1% of the US popualtion, represents 25% of all starting NFL QB's. How is that NOT an equal shot? Becuase the rest of the NFL is 90/10?
By your line of thinking, the white football players should start a club, and get together with owners to encourage "equality". There would be lawsuits everywhere, and the level of play would drop. The best people are on the field, and they got there by being the best. That is how it should always be.
I can't for the life of me understand why Blacks continue to seperate themselves after their forefathers spent so much time, effort, and BLOOD to get your equality. EQUALITY is EQUALITY, not special treatment. Next thing you know the blacks will attemtp to force the coutnry to have 33% white senators, 33% illegal hispanis and 33% blacks, cause well there are really three ethnic groups in htis country, so they might as well get equal representation.... IT DON"T WORK THAT WAY. Stop spitting on MLK's grave....

So answer me, why do little balck kids need a BLACK QB's club to be able to play QB? They are already way over-represented by population? It seems to me that they have PLENTY of opportunities, or else they would still be under-represented.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by Art-Florida

"You also, have attacked minority groups all throughout this post..."

I must have missed those. What "attacks"? Unledd you mean where he said people have to be accountable. I guess some individuals might construe a suggestion to be responsible and be civilized as an attack.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Worst response EVER. How do Black's NEED this club? They are already more then DOUBLY represented as NFL QB's. What I mean, is that a race that makes up 12.1% of the US popualtion, represents 25% of all starting NFL QB's. How is that NOT an equal shot?

So answer me, why do little balck kids need a BLACK QB's club to be able to play QB? They are already way over-represented by population? It seems to me that they have PLENTY of opportunities, or else they would still be under-represented.

Jonboy, I think your math is a bit flawed.

In a league where the need for athleticism & physicality is at a premium, Afro-Americans have the qualities to excel in the sports arena. I'm not trying to turn this thread into something else, but I think that most folks (white, black or whatever) realize on some level that from a physical athleticism standpoint, Afro-Americans are unusually well-equipped on average.

While there may be an athletic advantage amongst Afro-Americans, I think everyone should realize that there still is a bit of a discrepancy in allowing men of color to go from Pee-Wee or club football to the pros as a QB (as compared to allowing whites to be QBs).

Generally, if a white kid starts out as a QB, even if he becomes a really good athlete or starts out as a superior overall athlete, as he grows & matures he's allowed (even encouraged) to remain a QB and go as far as he can as a QB.

In the same scenario, if a young black kid starts out at QB and shows strong athleticism early-on or as he grows, he is usually pushed, prodded, coerced and sometimes physically MOVED to another position (many times against his wishes).

I would guess that is one of the primary reasons for the formation of a Quarterback club of Afro-Americans -- to help young black kids realize that at whatever level they are (from Pee-Wee to Div-1), that in the special circumstances that only a black QB prospect goes thru, there's a collective group of guys that can truly understand, help & mentor them because they lived it.

While I'm not entirely sure forming a formal "club" was the right thing to do, I do give them credit for trying to get together and becoming a collective to try and help those that are coming up -- to be a beacon of sorts.

Re: New black quarterbacks club

The slippery slope begins.... I'm pretty sure on my math but... even if it isn't here is the next evolution, and the reason why this club is an absolute JOKE and should be an embarrassment to all African - Americans.

Ok, so you say a mildly observible athletic advantage(I'll agree, it is there) is more then enough that more then one quarter of all QB's should be black if given an equal shot. That is saying, essentially, that a Black man is 3-4 times as likely as a white male to be a good QB. I'm going to disagree and say that it is around twice as likely, meaning that the current ratio is correct. I will agree that a black RB is at least 10 x s as likely to be good as a white RB, and without doing more math, I think they got that covered already. It is 32 for 32 right? as far as starters at least? In fact, Brian Leonard, and Nate Iloa are the only non-FB, non-Black runners I can think of.

Ok so here is where the slippery slope begins. How about a White Coaches Club? Since it was your position that a mildly observible athletic advantage was enough to show that African-American's deserve to be overwhelmingly represented at the QB position, Shouldn't white guys be able to get together and make sure that little white kid's realize they get an equal shot to be a coach? But wait, they'll never get a proportionately equal shot due to minority hiring rules, but alas maybe they can work towards getting those repealed, as they have a STATISTICALLY PROVEN advantage in intelligence, the primary skill of a coach. Where are the Jewish coaches, afterall Ashkenazi Male Jews are more then twice as liekly as any other individual group to have a genious level IQ... maybe all of our football coaches should be Jewish Males. Certainly not African -American Females the least likely group... So if the white males wanted that same, disproportionate hiring process, with "equal opportunity" then there would likely be NO minorities as getting dis-proportionate from nearly 80% comes dangerously close to 100%, and that is when people get yelling....

I truly don't understand why people think this is ok, at all. It's segregation and "reverse-racism"(retarded term, BTW) at it's best. The NFL or pro sports in general have no NEED for pro-black (read anit-white) organizations. As it is they actually have , statistical advantages in reaching those leagues on a player level(except kicker, ummm baseball they are only on par with pop %'s... ). In coaching circles they have rules and practicies that ensure they are equally represented. At this point, the last horizion is ownership, and that day is coming. As soon as enough minorities save up enough money, there will be more owners too, as competing bids go to minorities, almiost regardless of bid value.

I know this post is going to make some angry, but until organizations like this and provisions like affirmative action and and minority coaching practices are abandoned, how can we EVER HAVE EQUALITY? Isn't that the real idea, to walk next to, mingle with and be eye-to-eye with everyone? Everyone on equal footings? It doesn't seem like that's good enough for some people anymore...