High Overlord Saurfang. I can't think of a better leader for the Horde. I'm thinking it might happen, because he promised Garrosh that he'd kill him if he brought the Orcs down the old path, which it looks like he'll be doing with the Sha, and he has good ties with Varian Wrynn which will be good to bring the Alliance and Horde closer together if the Burning Legion come back next expansion.

High Overlord Saurfang. I can't think of a better leader for the Horde. I'm thinking it might happen, because he promised Garrosh that he'd kill him if he brought the Orcs down the old path, which it looks like he'll be doing with the Sha, and he has good ties with Varian Wrynn which will be good to bring the Alliance and Horde closer together if the Burning Legion come back next expansion.

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! You act like the horde want to be close to the alliance!!! Id rather they always HATE each other and fight to the death!!! The Final expansion should be a Raid where if your Horde You kill all the main alliance leaders and vice versa if your alliance!!!

Heck id love to see Garrosh corrupt the horde and make us all evil and become part of the Sha or the burning legion that would be awesome!! Get a lot more skins for each character and just all around badass!!

...and definitely not Sylvanas (Not that I dislike her, just doesn't seem right)

As for Sylvanas, she's pretty misunderstood. I don't know if the ones calling her psychotic and evil actually did the Forsaken quest-chain from the start of Silverpine to Southshore's ruins. The Horde attack on Gilneas - mainly done by the Forsaken - was at Garrosh's orders because he wanted a port on Eastern Kingdoms (which makes little sense, Blizzard , since where would Forsaken ships come from?). And rather than going on with the war that the Forsaken unlocked, which resulted in the Worgen retaliating - Sylvanas managed to stop the war in Silverpine by forcing a retreat into Gilneas. In addition, according to quests at the Southshore ruins, Sylvanas wouldn't be pleased that the Forsaken plague would make the land unlivable for Forsaken - and to close this off with, she protects her people's land from the Alliance. Only Calia Menethil has any rights to Lordaeron. Not the Alliance. The Forsaken are Lordaeron's rightful owners until Calia makes a presence in the story again.

So much agreement with the whole of your post. I've quoted this bit, though, because it is the point of difference for me. Firstly, the idea of Sylvanas as Warchief only entertains me because it is wrong. As in the main Horde narrative would be railing against her as a usurper, even as forsaken (she'd need to do something to alienate her own people, like abandon her free-will policy)- the point being to explore totalitarianism.

Anyhow, it's not my favourite idea- just cool conjecture. Not at all likely, I'd say.

That aside, the Silverpine quests, I would argue, illustrate just how face down the face-heel-turn road she is. Whilst she does give her righteous committed to her people spiel, a few things in particular strike me as indicative of her losing a grip on mortality and empathy:

(1) The Valkyr, Agatha, whilst taking you to Fenris observes "Different master, same insatiable thirst for power." She's sees the Lich King in the Banshee Queen.
(2) Sylvanas is now raising undead without free will, at least temporarily/sometimes. When she demonstrates the Valkyr's power to raise undead to Garrosh, the dead humans stand in perfect rank and file and salute her. Not at all like the regular forsaken starting experience.
(3) Sylvanas is now raising new undead. Not only that, she is aggressively expanding to kill people, in order to the raise them and bolster her forces. The grey area she inhabited was a much lighter grey when she led a population of forsaken who had their cursed state thrust upon them by the evil Lich King. Now she is doing that.
(4) Sylvanas mercilessly used the universally reviled and banned plague against the Gilneans.

More broadly, since being brought back from eternal torment by the Valkyr, she is markedly more afraid of death. Basically since Arthas died her run as an anti-heroine ran it's course, and she's now on a corruption plotline. That's my take on it, anyhow. That's not to say she isn't completely justified in proactively defending Lordaeron from the Alliance of Stormwind, which never once had claim to it.

I would prefer taurens, i HATE blood elves they're so ... sooo .... so .... so ... you know ... gay.

Blood elves are probably (apart from brute strength) the hordes biggest / best weapon. They carry ALOT more battle experience than most people anticipate, and have fought alot of wars if you read some of their lore. Sunwell, dead scar to name 2 favourites.
This has nothing to do with my 3 level 90s (Monk, Rogue and DK) are all blood elves.....

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!!! You act like the horde want to be close to the alliance!!! Id rather they always HATE each other and fight to the death!!! The Final expansion should be a Raid where if your Horde You kill all the main alliance leaders and vice versa if your alliance!!!

Heck id love to see Garrosh corrupt the horde and make us all evil and become part of the Sha or the burning legion that would be awesome!! Get a lot more skins for each character and just all around badass!!

In case you've been unaware, the plot dynamic of mists of pandaria is highlighting the ignorance and consequences of all out war, how it makes fools of everyone.

Why should that trend of stupidity continue, just to satisfy a few who can't think of anything else beyond a childish war?

Hopefully the outcry when Blizz confirmed its Thrall will make them reconsider.

Outcry?

People love Thrall, and they are bringing Thrall back because people let them know when they introduced garrosh that having a stupid Grunt as a leader was not acceptable, and that we wanted Thrall back.

Two devs already confirmed it was going to be Thrall, Metzen and J Allen Brack.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 01:56 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Trassk

In case you've been unaware, the plot dynamic of mists of pandaria is highlighting the ignorance and consequences of all out war, how it makes fools of everyone.

Why should that trend of stupidity continue, just to satisfy a few who can't think of anything else beyond a childish war?

Many people still, even after Blizzard blatantly telling them, still dont get how stupid this War is.

Also, no one seems to take into account what Wrathion is telling us, and they keep tryiong to convince Blizzard to develop a children's tale book, with the goods, the bads, and a senseless struggle between both, instead of a grey, more mature story, with no goods, little bads, and just people being different trying to survive.

I would prefer taurens, i HATE blood elves they're so ... sooo .... so .... so ... you know ... gay.

Blood elves are probably (apart from brute strength) the hordes biggest / best weapon. They carry ALOT more battle experience than most people anticipate, and have fought alot of wars if you read some of their lore. Sunwell, dead scar to name 2 favourites.
This has nothing to do with my 3 level 90s (Monk, Rogue and DK) are all blood elves.....

Yes, that and the fact that the Orcs and Blood Elves have more in common than any two races in WoW (The once proud people from a shattered homeland whose circumstances got them addicted to fel magic. Now they are recovering as a race and a new kind of magic is symbolic of this cultural healing as they try to shake off the fel influence on their lives and start fresh to rebuild their civilisation in a world that doesn't want them).

However, I would suggest that Kuragalolz doesn't care much for the lore-rationale behind Belves belonging in the Horde. Rather, I would guess their svelte yet masculine forms, luscious flowing locks of hair, and chiselled jawlines inspire a deep and unsettling cognitive dissonance between his virgin loins and homophobic brain.

---------- Post added 2013-02-19 at 05:59 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Trassk

In case you've been unaware, the plot dynamic of mists of pandaria is highlighting the ignorance and consequences of all out war, how it makes fools of everyone.

Why should that trend of stupidity continue, just to satisfy a few who can't think of anything else beyond a childish war?

Because it's called warcraft, and exploring just that kind of self-perpetuating conflict is one of the central pillars of the very premise of what Warcraft is. Because the heart of fantasy is applicability.

High Overlord Saurfang. I can't think of a better leader for the Horde. I'm thinking it might happen, because he promised Garrosh that he'd kill him if he brought the Orcs down the old path, which it looks like he'll be doing with the Sha, and he has good ties with Varian Wrynn which will be good to bring the Alliance and Horde closer together if the Burning Legion come back next expansion.

The Horde will be going through a rough patch as they come to grips with just what Garrosh made them do.

Many people still, even after Blizzard blatantly telling them, still dont get how stupid this War is.

Also, no one seems to take into account what Wrathion is telling us, and they keep tryiong to convince Blizzard to develop a children's tale book, with the goods, the bads, and a senseless struggle between both, instead of a grey, more mature story, with no goods, little bads, and just people being different trying to survive.

War is stupid, but it's not childish to portray it as self perpetuating. I'll go further and state on record that I like what Garrosh does for the story, was sad to hear he is going (and in such a manner that he needs to be 'corrupted' first), and don't think he is a 'baddie'. He causes a lot of friction, but like all good heels, his is internally consistent in actions, motives, and justifications. He is a complex character whose actions and motives run contrary to those of other complex characters.

Boiling him down to being a stupid grunt baddie, and concluding that it is now time for the bad war to end so the characters can all be mature and peaceful... that's a little more idyllic, I'd say.

Drama is a machine, and it runs on tension (generated by conflict) and resolution (best reached with incremental climaxes). The purpose of the machine is to communicate themes, which in the case of fantasy, are often both escapist and applicable. If you remove the tension, then there is no resolution, and themes do not get conveyed. The whole undertaking becomes quite dull and pointless. War isn't the only fuel for tension, but it is a good one, and I'd further add, central to the setting of 'Warcraft'.

War is stupid, but it's not childish to portray it as self perpetuating. I'll go further and state on record that I like what Garrosh does for the story, was sad to hear he is going (and in such a manner that he needs to be 'corrupted' first), and don't think he is a 'baddie'. He causes a lot of friction, but like all good heels, his is internally consistent in actions, motives, and justifications. He is a complex character whose actions and motives run contrary to those of other complex characters.

Boiling him down to being a stupid grunt baddie, and concluding that it is now time for the bad war to end so the characters can all be mature and peaceful... that's a little more idyllic, I'd say.

Drama is a machine, and it runs on tension (generated by conflict) and resolution (best reached with incremental climaxes). The purpose of the machine is to communicate themes, which in the case of fantasy, are often both escapist and applicable. If you remove the tension, then there is no resolution, and themes do not get conveyed. The whole undertaking becomes quite dull and pointless. War isn't the only fuel for tension, but it is a good one, and I'd further add, central to the setting of 'Warcraft'.

Garrosh takes a mature story and turns it into a Alice in Wonderland one. Garrosh IS the Queen of Hearts in Alice in Wonderland, nothing more, nothing less. Even Blizzard admitted that all what Garrosh wants is "kill, kill, kill".

So if you like what Garrosh does to the story, then i'm sorry, but you really suck at rating stories.

Garrosh devalues a story that previous to him, was a piece of art, Garrosh takes a "Mozart song" into a "Spice Girls" one.

Garrosh doesnt provide dramatic tension, Garrosh provides the "bad character" in a children's tale. Thrall provides the drama tension, with him knowing how bad War is, but also being forced to incur into it, knowing that the thing he should have done was ask for forgiveness for the killing of druids in Ashenvale when it happened, yet he tells Varian and Jaina that he cant, because he knows he really cant.

THAT is drama tension, THAT is complexity in a story, Garrosh is just the Queen of Hearts saying "Off with his head" so that the little kids know how the bad character is.

Also, quoting the game title to try to justify stupidity does not says good things about you.

Blood elves are probably (apart from brute strength) the hordes biggest / best weapon. They carry ALOT more battle experience than most people anticipate, and have fought alot of wars if you read some of their lore. Sunwell, dead scar to name 2 favourites.
This has nothing to do with my 3 level 90s (Monk, Rogue and DK) are all blood elves.....

Exactly what i'm saying - they havn't any force, but they have some powerful magic, even if they can't hold a mace or an axe, they can still launch some badass spells with their magic, but they wont ever touch their ennemies, or go into the melee. They are gay.
(/joke)

Garrosh isn't stupid, he just - as Christie Golden defines it - has a weak core.

I kinda agree to what you've said, but the Christie Golden part pretty much bothers me. After saying that Garrosh has weak core she implied Jaina has a strong one. Yep, Jaina, the girl that appears in most of her books and serves as her personal fantasy box, having men look after her all the time, getting cheers and bravos every two steps and some kinky time with a blue dragon is also a good thing. Whatever a core is, it seems to me Jaina has one of the oldest models.

For me, Blizzard pretty much lost a sense of direction while writing this character (or still hold a trumph card in their sleeve). What was the main aspect of Garrosh in BC? He was sad, apathic, pretty pathetic actually, BECAUSE HE WAS AFRAID TO BE A LEADER. This was a kinda interesting thing about this guy, a son of a war hero, last of his kind, young, brave - and has this one freaking flaw. And this was not forgotten in miles of scriptwriting - when Thrall appointed Garrosh as the new Warchief, Garrosh tried to refuse - saying he is not ready to lead, that he does not really want to. Thrall was like "Shut up and lead", and thus the Cataclysm started.

I'm pretty curious if this part of Garrosh this fear of burden and leadership, still exists, or did he really magically transformed into this big bad dragon that has to be killed by an underage knight in shiny armor. I really hope that, even if we are going to kill him, it wont be that boring and uninspired as it seems.