vs Oklahoma City Thunder Friday October 29 8:00 pm

Yes, but with Cousins, it's high risk, high reward. With Monroe it's a lower risk but his ceiling is way lower than Cousins. And at this point, the team needed a player with as much upside as Cousins, even if he fails due to his behaviour - when you're as bad as the Pistons, you need a game changer and Cousins may become one, while I doubt that with Monroe

Click to expand...

With due respect, there just isn't any way to know what Monroe's ceiling is. Cousins developed his strength a lot earlier than Monroe has, but there's really no reason to believe that Monroe won't develop his consistently over the next 4 or 5 years. I love Cousins raw ability, but Monroe is still the most unique and best passing big man to come into the league since guys like Webber, Bill Walton and Sabonis. If he develops the way we hope, then we've got something special.

With due respect, there just isn't any way to know what Monroe's ceiling is. Cousins developed his strength a lot earlier than Monroe has, but there's really no reason to believe that Monroe won't develop his consistently over the next 4 or 5 years. I love Cousins raw ability, but Monroe is still the most unique and best passing big man to come into the league since guys like Webber, Bill Walton and Sabonis. If he develops the way we hope, then we've got something special.

We'll see.

Click to expand...

with all due respect, I give a you know what about this developing thing. If someone comes out of college, he should have certain qualities. Cousins for instance, is raw but you can see that he'll adjust. He's able to compete already. With Monroe, that is still to be determined. And if you#re 20, no one wants you to be great, but you have to show you're ready. That's why this whole "he'll be fine" talk about that big fella we got for Maurive Evans was just plain stupid. In about 1% of the cases guys learn how to play after they're about 20. If Monroe isn't ready yet, I hardly doubt he can be more than a role player. If he shows flashes of talent (in no way do I want him to be a 14/8 guy right away), he can be fine. He needs to play in an NBA game so that we can judge on that. But if he doesn't get minutes on the probably worst roster of the NBA, rather the coach is the worst too or he simply isn't a good player. We'll see and I hope he'll be fine; can't say it yet but this far, Monroe is way ahead of him and that's why I wrote about the higher ceiling.

About your examples: I can only talk about Webber and Sabonis, never saw Walton play - but with Webber and Sabonis, passing was one additional asset to their great overall game. Webber was explosive, Sabonis had one of the most finesse low post games ever while being just huge. This far, the only thing people talk about with regards to Monroe is passing - and it's not a good sign if a special asset is the only real asset. If he can't do much more than pass the ball, we're screwed.

To put it simply: People talked about Webber's explosiveness and scoring ability and added the phrase "and he's a good passer". They talked about Sabonis huge frame, his finesse moves in the post and his ability to dish. With Monroe, they're talking about his passing only. That's what bothers me.

with all due respect, I give a you know what about this developing thing. If someone comes out of college, he should have certain qualities. Cousins for instance, is raw but you can see that he'll adjust. He's able to compete already. With Monroe, that is still to be determined. And if you#re 20, no one wants you to be great, but you have to show you're ready. That's why this whole "he'll be fine" talk about that big fella we got for Maurive Evans was just plain stupid. In about 1% of the cases guys learn how to play after they're about 20. If Monroe isn't ready yet, I hardly doubt he can be more than a role player. If he shows flashes of talent (in no way do I want him to be a 14/8 guy right away), he can be fine. He needs to play in an NBA game so that we can judge on that. But if he doesn't get minutes on the probably worst roster of the NBA, rather the coach is the worst too or he simply isn't a good player. We'll see and I hope he'll be fine; can't say it yet but this far, Monroe is way ahead of him and that's why I wrote about the higher ceiling.

About your examples: I can only talk about Webber and Sabonis, never saw Walton play - but with Webber and Sabonis, passing was one additional asset to their great overall game. Webber was explosive, Sabonis had one of the most finesse low post games ever while being just huge. This far, the only thing people talk about with regards to Monroe is passing - and it's not a good sign if a special asset is the only real asset. If he can't do much more than pass the ball, we're screwed.

To put it simply: People talked about Webber's explosiveness and scoring ability and added the phrase "and he's a good passer". They talked about Sabonis huge frame, his finesse moves in the post and his ability to dish. With Monroe, they're talking about his passing only. That's what bothers me.

Click to expand...

People talk about Monroe's overall offensive game, not just his passing. But his passing is his best skill. Again, 20 year olds are almost never as fully developed physically as Cousins is.

yes and if you don't look like Cousins when you're 20, you probably never will. All this "gain muscles" talk is mostly nonsense. Look at Daye, that mentioned big, Tay and so on. And then compare them to Oden and those guys - they either entered the league at a very young stage (like Jermaine O'Neal) and became muscular enough; or they entered as beasts. But I don't know any player that entered the league at about 20 and became a beast or at least improved his strength significantly. If you're 20, there ain't much room left. And please tell me what aspects of Monroe's offensive game people are talking about. Until now, I've only read about basic face to basket game and his passing. nothing special. And again: I am not saying he is bad. I am saying that this far, there have been no signs he's more then mediocre.

It's a marathon, not a sprint. Cousins is a big time talent, and he may or may not be a big time headache. Monroe also has a ton of ability, is never going to be a headache. He's 20. Give him time to develop.

Brap, I think it is a little awkward to argue how good Monroe is going to be, while at the same time admitting he isn't and we don't know how good he can be.

This guy could completely wash out of the league in 2 years. Cousins could wash out of the league in 2 years.

It's too early to say anything, except Monroe doesn't have the confidence of his coach, and is not able to get on the court, and that doesn't bode well for a guy taken so high, on a team so desperate for size.

I'm not saying anything's a done deal with ANY of this year's rookies. John Wall has a lot of weaknesses - I think he's super talented, but he doesn't shoot the ball well, and it's not exactly looking like he's got Jason Kidd's pure point ability. Still, I'd project that he'll be outstanding in time.

Cousins came into the draft with the label of being the most pro-ready. From the little I've seen, I can get that.

As to the argument that guys are what they are at age 20 and never really develop - well, I just totally disagree. McGrady sat on the bench for several years. Nash was nothing special for a few years. Guys almost always take a few years to develop into quality NBA big men, and certainly very few teenagers have their "man-strength" - it takes them many years to "man-up" in that way. We might not like that fact, and we might be impatient waiting for this to play out with Daye and Monroe, but the facts are the facts in that arena. You're talking about two guys who won't be entering their early prime years for another 4-6 seasons from now -- and that's just about the time when I'd expect the Pistons to be legit contenders again, because the truth is we need Stuckey, Daye and Monroe and JJ and whomever we draft and/or trade for to be at the top of their abilities and games at around the same time to compete at that level.

As to the argument that guys are what they are at age 20 and never really develop - well, I just totally disagree. McGrady sat on the bench for several years. Nash was nothing special for a few years.

Click to expand...

Yes, but they rode the bench not because of their lack of strength. I am still waiting for one example of a big or any other player that significantly "manned up" because he wasn't strong enough when he entered the league at about 20. The only one I can think of is Nowitzki and guys that came into the league directly after high school (and thus, where even younger). Plus, Monroe doesn#t only have to "man up", he needs to work on his athleticism pretty hard as everyone on this forum knows how slow and unexplosive he is.

Gordon looked pretty good. There is no reason this guy should not be starting IMO. I'm not sure Stuckey outplayed Russel Westbrook. I'm not sure Stuckey outplayed Gordon.

We're so close, but so far away. I'm less concerned with our lineups, and more concerned why our first round pick can't get on the court. I might have to call in to sports talk in order to start something up ...

Click to expand...

I saw the entire game, and I have to disagree with that assessment. Stuckey punished Westbrook offensively and held him to 30% shooting defensively. The only time he got going was when Hamilton and Gordon were on him.

Gordon and Stuckey were both fantastic offensively. Stuckey might have had the best all around game of his career. I know it was good when he has KGREG singing his praises. lol

The draft is not a sure thing, you can get a bust or a baller with any pick in the draft. I'm telling you guys, go back and just look at past drafts most guys never see a multi-year contract extension. Every player that comes into the draft comes with a list of pro's and cons, for Greg Monroe EVERY single con is rearing it's ugly head in his game right now, he's slow, he can't jump and he has a tendency to get lost in games and have ZERO court presence.

I saw the entire game, and I have to disagree with that assessment. Stuckey punished Westbrook offensively and held him to 30% shooting defensively. The only time he got going was when Hamilton and Gordon were on him.

Gordon and Stuckey were both fantastic offensively. Stuckey might have had the best all around game of his career. I know it was good when he has KGREG singing his praises. lol

Click to expand...

YUP! Stuckey had Westbrook locked and Stuckey put a can of whoop ___ on Westbrook. I'm still giddy about what the kid did last night, I really think he played the best game of his entire NBA career last night. Great offensive efficiency, great defense, solid on the boards and made the right decision about 90% of the time, he was a beast last night, HANDS DOWN!!!!!!!!