dittybopper:Rise of the machines was a decent enough. I liked the fact that judgement day was inevitable, and the end where they are in the one place where the technology can't be taken over by Skynet.

The last scene in the bunker was cool, if they had to go that way but I preferred the open-ended ending in T2. But if Judgement Day has to happen, have one more movie that ends with Kyle Reese and the T-800 being sent back, bring everything full circle.

Mugato:dittybopper: Rise of the machines was a decent enough. I liked the fact that judgement day was inevitable, and the end where they are in the one place where the technology can't be taken over by Skynet.

The last scene in the bunker was cool, if they had to go that way but I preferred the open-ended ending in T2. But if Judgement Day has to happen, have one more movie that ends with Kyle Reese and the T-800 being sent back, bring everything full circle.

I could give a rat's ass about Avatar.

Actually, the Avatar sequel presents some unique problems.

First, the soonest the Earth can send any reinforcements to Pandora in an attempt to regain control is 10 years: It takes 4 years for the news to reach Earth, and it takes 6 years for a ship from Earth to reach Pandora. It's probably more like 11 or 12 years, because you can't just assemble a fleet overnight and send it on its way.

That presents some unique difficulties for Earth. That's enough time to completely and utterly destroy whatever refining and mining equipment is left on Pandora so that it can never, ever be used.

That means that if they *DO* manage to pacify the blue monkeys, they've got to start from scratch.

Plus, think about the amount of preparation time the Na'vi are going to have prior to being subject to retaliation. The humans can't just nuke them from orbit, as that risks destroying what they came for (unobtanium. *REALLY*?), and it's not like the Na'vi have a fixed military infrastructure anyway.

It's an interesting problem, not unlike the one early Europeans faced in North America, except that the voyages were much, much shorter, and the Na'vi will have the advantage of some humans and their technology willing to help them. For instance, they could repurpose the shuttle into a military vehicle by slapping rockets or some kind of mass driver on it. Doesn't even have to be guided: Just pointing it accurately would be good enough.

Wow, you know more about Avatar than me or my movie geek friends, some of which worked on the motherfarker. I'm sure Cameron had at least a trilogy in mind when he wrote the first one so he has it figured out. Then again, only a robot surrounded by living tissue was supposed to be able to go through the time portal in Terminator but the T-1000 inexplicably made it through so you never know.

dittybopper:First, the soonest the Earth can send any reinforcements to Pandora in an attempt to regain control is 10 years: It takes 4 years for the news to reach Earth, and it takes 6 years for a ship from Earth to reach Pandora. It's probably more like 11 or 12 years, because you can't just assemble a fleet overnight and send it on its way.

And what if in that 4 years before news gets back to them, they discovered a way to travel faster and show up less than a year after that... What now, smart guy?

dittybopper:Mugato: dittybopper: Rise of the machines was a decent enough. I liked the fact that judgement day was inevitable, and the end where they are in the one place where the technology can't be taken over by Skynet.

The last scene in the bunker was cool, if they had to go that way but I preferred the open-ended ending in T2. But if Judgement Day has to happen, have one more movie that ends with Kyle Reese and the T-800 being sent back, bring everything full circle.

I could give a rat's ass about Avatar.

Actually, the Avatar sequel presents some unique problems.

First, the soonest the Earth can send any reinforcements to Pandora in an attempt to regain control is 10 years: It takes 4 years for the news to reach Earth, and it takes 6 years for a ship from Earth to reach Pandora. It's probably more like 11 or 12 years, because you can't just assemble a fleet overnight and send it on its way.

That presents some unique difficulties for Earth. That's enough time to completely and utterly destroy whatever refining and mining equipment is left on Pandora so that it can never, ever be used.

That means that if they *DO* manage to pacify the blue monkeys, they've got to start from scratch.

Plus, think about the amount of preparation time the Na'vi are going to have prior to being subject to retaliation. The humans can't just nuke them from orbit, as that risks destroying what they came for (unobtanium. *REALLY*?), and it's not like the Na'vi have a fixed military infrastructure anyway.

It's an interesting problem, not unlike the one early Europeans faced in North America, except that the voyages were much, much shorter, and the Na'vi will have the advantage of some humans and their technology willing to help them. For instance, they could repurpose the shuttle into a military vehicle by slapping rockets or some kind of mass driver on it. Doesn't even have to be guided: Just pointing it accurately would be good enough.

Umm, I'm pretty sure they can just nuke the place from orbit. One of the largest deposits already had the Na'vi home tree wiped out. Just nuke outlying settlements and build there. Also, the nukes could just be large tungsten rods accelerated into the planet which can do just as much damage as a nuke without the radiation. Also, the squemishness of fighting the natives would have worn off as the Na'vi killed a lot of humans. Makes it easier to just go in and wipe them out.

I think the more interesting problem is what happens to Earth now that a steady flow of a material that is vital to the economy and production has been cut off. Like you mentioned, it's going to take 4 years for Earth to even hear about what happened. And then decades to get back and do something about it. Will mining be taken over by a company again or will governments work together to make sure they get what they need so their countries don't collapse. Could this lead to a war on Earth? Or even a proxy war fought on Pandora?

Or a bigger twist would be Earth is basically destroyed in a world war type scenario and refugees flee to Pandora.

Mugato:/Avatar is the #1 movie of all time (not adjusting for inflation) but does anyone ever talk about it or give a shiat about a sequel?

The movie was wildly popular and lots of people wanted more. James Cameron recently expanded the sequel list from two movies to three, and Disney is building a damn Avatar land. But I wonder if, at this point, everyone waited to long to capitalize on the initial hype. It was a pretty generic story coupled with some good special effects. James Cameron's name is on the top, so the sequels will make some money. But maybe not the Scrooge McDuck money bins that the invested parties want to see.

In another time line, some other dude could have been John Connor's father, Reese just got to him first because of time travel. We know they at least postponed Judgement Day so history was changed right there. It depends on what rules of time travel the story follows. Since time travel never makes any sense in any story, anything can happen.

In another time line, some other dude could have been John Connor's father, Reese just got to him first because of time travel. We know they at least postponed Judgement Day so history was changed right there. It depends on what rules of time travel the story follows. Since time travel never makes any sense in any story, anything can happen.

Another Terminator could be done, and as many have posited Arnold could be some old decrepit guy now who Skynet used as the model for the original John Connor killer.

I am a huge SCI-FI fan but I could not make it through Avatar, its like they mixed Andre Norton with sc-fi light.

quizzical:Mugato: /Avatar is the #1 movie of all time (not adjusting for inflation) but does anyone ever talk about it or give a shiat about a sequel?

The movie was wildly popular and lots of people wanted more. James Cameron recently expanded the sequel list from two movies to three, and Disney is building a damn Avatar land. But I wonder if, at this point, everyone waited to long to capitalize on the initial hype. It was a pretty generic story coupled with some good special effects. James Cameron's name is on the top, so the sequels will make some money. But maybe not the Scrooge McDuck money bins that the invested parties want to see.

/Personally, I'm meh on more Avatar

I understand that it made a lot of money. I think that a lot of it was that it had little competition that season and was basically an FX demo reel for the next generation of 3D movies that it brought about. But does anyone really care about the story or seeing it continued? Can anyone even name an iconic character from the film? I know the main character is....that guy. The nondescript guy who isn't Thomas Jane but might as well be. And of course Sigourney Weaver who everyone loves but isn't exactly "name above the title". I dunno, maybe it's just the people I know but I don't see people foaming at the mouth for an Avatar sequel.

Disney has Star Wars now, I think they would be a lot better off building a Star Wars Land than Avatarland.

Meh Planet Catsex has been done. All that needs to occur is that someone finds a Planet Dogsex that has unobtainium mark 2 which is 5 times more powerful.

It is either that or we drop killer robots onto Planet Catsex. These robots that have the ability to make better replicant copies of themselves. The movie can end with a "survivor" of the original war being found and taken back to earth..

Mugato:Wow, you know more about Avatar than me or my movie geek friends, some of which worked on the motherfarker.

Well, I know that the speed of light dictates that it will take just over 4 years for news to travel the 4.37 light years from Pandora, in the Alpha Centauri system, back to Earth. That's simple physics.

The trip takes six years, according to the script, which implies a speed of roughly 3/4ths the speed of light, give or take, if you assume that the time is measured in either Earth or Pandora frames of reference, which I did for my assumptions.

If you assume that is actually ship time, which this seems to imply:"You've been in cryo for five years, nine months and twenty-two days. You will be hungry, you will be weak.",then the actual travel time would have to be about 7 years 3 months, at a speed of about 0.6c, which would time dilate you down to about 5 years, 9 months, 27 days of ship time, close enough for government work.

I don't know more about the movie, but maybe a bit more about the physics and what has to naturally flow from that.

ActionJoe:Umm, I'm pretty sure they can just nuke the place from orbit. One of the largest deposits already had the Na'vi home tree wiped out. Just nuke outlying settlements and build there. Also, the nukes could just be large tungsten rods accelerated into the planet which can do just as much damage as a nuke without the radiation. Also, the squemishness of fighting the natives would have worn off as the Na'vi killed a lot of humans. Makes it easier to just go in and wipe them out.

Actually, you could just "throw rocks at them". They don't have to be fancy tungsten rods.

The danger, though, is that you'll fark up the unobtanium you want to gather. What good is finding a major deposit if, as a condition for access, you have to use enough kinetic energy to kill the Na'vi doggy-guarding it that it ends up getting scattered, or worse, destroyed?

Which brings up a possible strategy for the Na'vi/"good" humans: Sit on the big deposits. That limits the amount of force that can be used to dislodge them, because using too much will destroy the very thing they are after.

Remember that the motivation here isn't ideology, or even revenge, but economics.

ActionJoe:I think the more interesting problem is what happens to Earth now that a steady flow of a material that is vital to the economy and production has been cut off. Like you mentioned, it's going to take 4 years for Earth to even hear about what happened. And then decades to get back and do something about it.

Well, there would likely still be a few shipments "in the pipeline" once they get the news, so they can go on austerity measures and rationing of the unobtanium before they are in danger of running out.

If you assume a shipment going back to Earth once every 6 months, there would still be something like 4 to 7 loads still "in transit" when they get the news.

dittybopper:Mugato: dittybopper: Rise of the machines was a decent enough. I liked the fact that judgement day was inevitable, and the end where they are in the one place where the technology can't be taken over by Skynet.

The last scene in the bunker was cool, if they had to go that way but I preferred the open-ended ending in T2. But if Judgement Day has to happen, have one more movie that ends with Kyle Reese and the T-800 being sent back, bring everything full circle.

I could give a rat's ass about Avatar.

Actually, the Avatar sequel presents some unique problems.

First, the soonest the Earth can send any reinforcements to Pandora in an attempt to regain control is 10 years: It takes 4 years for the news to reach Earth, and it takes 6 years for a ship from Earth to reach Pandora. It's probably more like 11 or 12 years, because you can't just assemble a fleet overnight and send it on its way.

The mining company might take that long to get around but the military probably has either faster ships or a base closer to Pandora.

dittybopper: The danger, though, is that you'll fark up the unobtanium you want to gather. What good is finding a major deposit if, as a condition for access, you have to use enough kinetic energy to kill the Na'vi doggy-guarding it that it ends up getting scattered, or worse, destroyed?

It's an anti-gravity mineral. Nuking the surface (literally or with rocks) is THE efficient way to mine it. The unobtanium liberated will float up to orbit to be easily collected, probably electrostatically.

Realistically, dude got the Na'vi exterminated with his stunts in the film. He should've been documenting to report to the media. There's no way they'll convincingly plot a sequel where the corporation doesn't come back and tear the hell out of the surface of the planet. Granted, they were awfully, awfully, awfully stupid tactically, what with flying their orbital 'bomber' so low that it could be hit with arrows, but even they will have to smarten up eventually.

KellyX:dittybopper: First, the soonest the Earth can send any reinforcements to Pandora in an attempt to regain control is 10 years: It takes 4 years for the news to reach Earth, and it takes 6 years for a ship from Earth to reach Pandora. It's probably more like 11 or 12 years, because you can't just assemble a fleet overnight and send it on its way.

And what if in that 4 years before news gets back to them, they discovered a way to travel faster and show up less than a year after that... What now, smart guy?

/Cameron goes faster than the speed of plot!

They can get around all that by having the government take over whatever corporation is mining the dear-god-don't-make-me-say-it just after Jake Sully's ship left Earth, and have Arnie command the fleet that was going to do the takeover.That could also explain why they aren't totally loaded for bear, so it is still kind of a fair fight.

RandomAxe:It's an anti-gravity mineral. Nuking the surface (literally or with rocks) is THE efficient way to mine it. The unobtanium liberated will float up to orbit to be easily collected, probably electrostatically.

Perhaps. If that's the case, why didn't they just go after the easy source, the floating mountains? They've got to be full of the stuff. Why bother strip mining?

Plus, you have no idea whether the stuff retains its anti-gravity properties after being subjected to intense heat and/or pressure. Take a blowtorch to a "permanent" magnet and see what happens.

And we also don't know that it's anti-gravity. We see it floating in a dish, but they never exactly describe the properties. It could be superconducting, with the floating mountains accounted for by magnetic fields flowing through unobtanium deposits.

dittybopper:RandomAxe: It's an anti-gravity mineral. Nuking the surface (literally or with rocks) is THE efficient way to mine it. The unobtanium liberated will float up to orbit to be easily collected, probably electrostatically.

Perhaps. If that's the case, why didn't they just go after the easy source, the floating mountains? They've got to be full of the stuff. Why bother strip mining?

Plus, you have no idea whether the stuff retains its anti-gravity properties after being subjected to intense heat and/or pressure. Take a blowtorch to a "permanent" magnet and see what happens.

And we also don't know that it's anti-gravity. We see it floating in a dish, but they never exactly describe the properties. It could be superconducting, with the floating mountains accounted for by magnetic fields flowing through unobtanium deposits.

If it was anti gravity how did it stay inside the solar system as it coalesced.

Saiga410:dittybopper: RandomAxe: It's an anti-gravity mineral. Nuking the surface (literally or with rocks) is THE efficient way to mine it. The unobtanium liberated will float up to orbit to be easily collected, probably electrostatically.

Perhaps. If that's the case, why didn't they just go after the easy source, the floating mountains? They've got to be full of the stuff. Why bother strip mining?

Plus, you have no idea whether the stuff retains its anti-gravity properties after being subjected to intense heat and/or pressure. Take a blowtorch to a "permanent" magnet and see what happens.

And we also don't know that it's anti-gravity. We see it floating in a dish, but they never exactly describe the properties. It could be superconducting, with the floating mountains accounted for by magnetic fields flowing through unobtanium deposits.

If it was anti gravity how did it stay inside the solar system as it coalesced.

The Avatar wiki says it is a room temperature superconductor. It's just floating over a magnet on the guy's desk.

Mugato:quizzical: Mugato: /Avatar is the #1 movie of all time (not adjusting for inflation) but does anyone ever talk about it or give a shiat about a sequel?

The movie was wildly popular and lots of people wanted more. James Cameron recently expanded the sequel list from two movies to three, and Disney is building a damn Avatar land. But I wonder if, at this point, everyone waited to long to capitalize on the initial hype. It was a pretty generic story coupled with some good special effects. James Cameron's name is on the top, so the sequels will make some money. But maybe not the Scrooge McDuck money bins that the invested parties want to see.

/Personally, I'm meh on more Avatar

I understand that it made a lot of money. I think that a lot of it was that it had little competition that season and was basically an FX demo reel for the next generation of 3D movies that it brought about. But does anyone really care about the story or seeing it continued? Can anyone even name an iconic character from the film? I know the main character is....that guy. The nondescript guy who isn't Thomas Jane but might as well be. And of course Sigourney Weaver who everyone loves but isn't exactly "name above the title". I dunno, maybe it's just the people I know but I don't see people foaming at the mouth for an Avatar sequel.

Disney has Star Wars now, I think they would be a lot better off building a Star Wars Land than Avatarland.

Agreed. The movie was a novelty that has largely been forgotten. big sci-fi things tend to develop a serious fanbase. I've yet to see any evidence of an Avatar one. There's no demand for this. Any sequels and theme parks will fall flat n their face IMHO.

give me doughnuts:Saiga410: dittybopper: RandomAxe: It's an anti-gravity mineral. Nuking the surface (literally or with rocks) is THE efficient way to mine it. The unobtanium liberated will float up to orbit to be easily collected, probably electrostatically.

Perhaps. If that's the case, why didn't they just go after the easy source, the floating mountains? They've got to be full of the stuff. Why bother strip mining?

Plus, you have no idea whether the stuff retains its anti-gravity properties after being subjected to intense heat and/or pressure. Take a blowtorch to a "permanent" magnet and see what happens.

And we also don't know that it's anti-gravity. We see it floating in a dish, but they never exactly describe the properties. It could be superconducting, with the floating mountains accounted for by magnetic fields flowing through unobtanium deposits.

If it was anti gravity how did it stay inside the solar system as it coalesced.

The Avatar wiki says it is a room temperature superconductor. It's just floating over a magnet on the guy's desk.

dittybopper: Perhaps. If that's the case, why didn't they just go after the easy source, the floating mountains? They've got to be full of the stuff. Why bother strip mining?

They were clearly idiots. That's really the only explanation. Almost everything they do is really, really dumb -- witness the orbital-bomber-flying-absurdly-low stuff, for instance. Not that the hero is any better, considering that he knows the Na'vi are aware something's weird about him and that he's an outsider, but he never tells them he's telepresencing, and they panic whenever he loses consciousness. Dolt.

Cameron had said that the unobtanium was antigrav, but possibly he changed his mind. Whatever. If the stuff won't survive a heavy saturation bombing of some kind, which seems unlikely, then the corporation would just poison the surface. In that case, the sequel should be Alien Ecosystem vs Agent Orange.

Either way, the reality is that the corporation's likely to come back and burn vast areas of the surface to cinder, with heat or explosives or radiation or chemicals. It's the historical and economic reality.

Mugato * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-09-17 12:21:20 PM That's one way to go. Or you guys could do a final Terminator movie to wash the taste of the last two out of our mouths.===================================================

jake3988:Mugato * * Smartest * Funniest 2013-09-17 12:21:20 PM That's one way to go. Or you guys could do a final Terminator movie to wash the taste of the last two out of our mouths.===================================================