I will be living off-campus (pregnant wife, multiple pets) and paying for everything exclusively with loans. I really want to live within walking distance of campus, which makes Harlem/Columbia better than East Village/NYU price-wise. But I am leaning NYU to avoid debt, and could pay for a more expensive apartment, but still save lots of money if I go to NYU. CLS costs approx. $3.5K more per year, not counting personal/living expenses, so that also offsets paying more for an apartment near NYU.

Factoring in PI, based on Law School Transparency, it appears that CLS and NYU are very comparable in employment results. I will pursue PI if a good option presents itself in the mid-sized market where I will be seeking jobs (Colorado), but I will likely end up aiming for big law.

I have until April 26 (Friday) to submit deposit to NYU. Any thoughts, especially on housing options, would be greatly appreciated.

With your PI goals, I would take NYU. Fwiw, Columbia's on-campus housing has couples housing options and they "unofficially" allow pets, so that could very well be an option for you. However, even if, with the difference in housing costs, the total costs come out to be the same, I would still go with NYU because of your interests. Also, if you're fairly certain that you won't be doing big law your 2L summer, go ahead and use NYU's $120k figure. That tips the scales even more, in my opinion. Good luck!

ETA: RC Fail on my part. If it's a toss-up between PI and Big law, I would first look into couples housing at CLS (that could cut down on living costs even more), and then compare total COA. From what I've heard from current students, because PI doesn't have the pipeline system that big law does, it's necessary to be in an institution with a lot of support for PI careers (NYU). Since you're not leaning towards either way, do a coin-flip, and see how you feel after the coin decides your fate.

Last edited by ph5354a on Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

All things equal, CLS isn't worth the extra money. From what I've heard and read, basically the same percentage of people who have participated in OCI at the two schools for the last several years have received biglaw summer offers (around 80%, give or take). I'd worry more about that number (which reflects placement ability) than about the number of graduates actually going into biglaw (which also reflects self-selection).

That said, the money is close enough that you can't go wrong. And I will warn you that based on your comments about public interest, you are almost definitely not going to get a public interest job. Good options don't "present themselves" in this economy; you have to forgo biglaw, go all in for public interest, and hope for the best, which might entail graduating without a job offer. This state of affairs is exactly why so many people who would prefer public interest jobs in a vacuum end up going to firms instead.

Last edited by dixiecupdrinking on Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Also, I'm assuming you've visited both campuses, but if not, that's a definite must. The campuses and surrounding neighborhoods where you would ideally be living are basically polar opposites, and you will likely feel more at home in one over the other.

DistanceRunner wrote:I will be living off-campus (pregnant wife, multiple pets) and paying for everything exclusively with loans. I really want to live within walking distance of campus, which makes Harlem/Columbia better than East Village/NYU price-wise. But I am leaning NYU to avoid debt, and could pay for a more expensive apartment, but still save lots of money if I go to NYU. CLS costs approx. $3.5K more per year, not counting personal/living expenses, so that also offsets paying more for an apartment near NYU.

Factoring in PI, based on Law School Transparency, it appears that CLS and NYU are very comparable in employment results. I will pursue PI if a good option presents itself in the mid-sized market where I will be seeking jobs (Colorado), but I will likely end up aiming for big law.

I have until April 26 (Friday) to submit deposit to NYU. Any thoughts, especially on housing options, would be greatly appreciated.

The number of unfilled PI jobs in Colorado in search of diffident CLS/NYU grads who think they might want to do PI if the mood strikes can be safely calculated as zero.

Given your family situation, and having a new baby on the way, definitely go check out the areas and do a little searching around to see where you might live for either one, as that may be a major factor. Also, d oyou plan on doing a PI 2L summer thing, or will you more likely go for a SA at a firm? and how sure are you of that answer?

I live in couples housing near Columbia and the whole process was very easy. Even with 25K and slightly lower tuition you'll probably only break even if you want to live within walking distance to NYU all three years.

I don't know what my odds are of finding a PI position that matches my goals, but assume it is low. Regardless, I will be looking. I predict I will end up working for a firm.

On Craigslist it looks like there are apartment options in the East Village for around $300 per month more than in Harlem. That would, in total, mean NYU and CLS cost almost exactly the same for me. CLS is my preference, but $25K plus interest goes a long way.

Two lawyers in Colorado, one established and one fairly young, told me that they don't see any difference between the two for Colorado firm hiring purposes. If class rank is a factor in hiring, than maybe NYU is the better choice if the stereotype that it is slightly less academically competitive than CLS holds true? (I doubt this theory is of any value.)

I will definitely focus on environmental law. It is nice that NYU offers formal focus areas, allowing studets to show what they chose to pursue. Maybe this would be of value later in my career?

DistanceRunner wrote:I don't know what my odds are of finding a PI position that matches my goals, but assume it is low. Regardless, I will be looking. I predict I will end up working for a firm.

On Craigslist it looks like there are apartment options in the East Village for around $300 per month more than in Harlem. That would, in total, mean NYU and CLS cost almost exactly the same for me. CLS is my preference, but $25K plus interest goes a long way.

Two lawyers in Colorado, one established and one fairly young, told me that they don't see any difference between the two for Colorado firm hiring purposes. If class rank is a factor in hiring, than maybe NYU is the better choice if the stereotype that it is slightly less academically competitive than CLS holds true? (I doubt this theory is of any value.)

I will definitely focus on environmental law. It is nice that NYU offers formal focus areas, allowing studets to show what they chose to pursue. Maybe this would be of value later in my career?

In a way, NYU gives you more options. Their big law placement is solid, and they have the PI infrastructure for you to pursue that if you decide to. COA is probably close enough to be considered a wash. I would just echo others (and myself, hah) that the location and neighborhood are important, and that should be a factor here as well, especially with a family.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:All things equal, CLS isn't worth the extra money. From what I've heard and read, basically the same percentage of people who have participated in OCI at the two schools for the last several years have received biglaw summer offers (around 80%, give or take). I'd worry more about that number (which reflects placement ability) than about the number of graduates actually going into biglaw (which also reflects self-selection).

92% of people who participated in CLS EIP for c/o 2013 got offers. It was 85% for the c/o 2012. I believe c/o 2014 receded somewhat based on the NALP report and my anecdotal impression. I don't have personal knowledge of the NYU percentages although I have read on it here that it is around 80%. I agree that those numbers are more useful than simply the % in big law.

OP, I think this depends somewhat on how likely you think it is that you will do PI. Someone else pointed out, and I think this is correct, it is pretty unlikely that you will get PI in CO from either school. Betting on getting big law in CO also seems risky (I assume you are okay with NYC big law if you strike out in CO) but not nearly as risky as assuming you will get PI in CO. I think you wouldn't be crazy to choose CLS with 75K over NYU with 100K or vice versa. It might be a little crazy to choose CLS with 75K over NYU with 120K. I am not sure where the line is exactly.