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<snip> Within our quad there is no condom use, though the unspoken rule is that if there is a potential to have sex with anyone outside the group you must use protection.

I think that should be quite an important, spoken out directly rule. Especially where disease or pregnancy could happen, it could change your life.

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Condoms take you out of the mood, from "sexy thoughts" to "oh yeah you can die from this".

I'm new to this term 'fluid bonding', but I'm the same I think, I prefer it that way. Just get your partners tested for diseases and don't have sex with people you can't trust. Not that hard is it, no pun...

Impregnating another would be a deal breaker for me. Not that it would happen on purpose - but birth control fails.

That is an interesting thought. I don't know how I would respond to pregnancy. PN has had two female loves in our time together (12 years of poly). I haven't considered it once! I know that one of the women wanted children badly as her other partner was snipped. She actually dated Derby's husband for a time also and Derby and him were very concerned about her motives... I hadn't thought of them, as I know PN is very careful and is in no way interested in more kids.

If it happened I would be beside myself with anxiety, hurt, sadness and fear, but I would get through it. I would do everything I could to be a part of the babies life I think. I would want LB to know his sibling... what would be hard for me is that I would have no control over if that would be realistic or not. I would not be the mummy and my values could very well different than the mothers. Again, I think PN would pick someone with similar values to us and that would fit with our life as we would with them. We don't bother with trying people out any more as we have wasted time and have learned a lot by now... usually nothing happens fast and by the time he even has sex with someone there has a been a TON of preparation and production before he has decided that she is the one to give to and give himself to.

I think that should be quite an important, spoken out directly rule. Especially where disease or pregnancy could happen, it could change your life.

Our quad is very tight knit, we know that our partners haven't been with anyone but us in the last 15 years. And neither my husband or myself have been with anyone outside the group for 2 years prior to becoming sexually involved a year and a half ago. The other female in our group was uncomfortable with the thought of my husband sleeping with anyone else, so it's been a non-issue so far, but if it becomes one he's already prepared to use condoms.

I somehow managed to make it through my promiscuous high school years disease free ( I slept with older men wich makes it even more amazing to me).

When Karma and I started dating I thought we were monogomus so I didn't push for condoms. I was being tested regularly so I didn't think much of it.

Stupid me.

Fluid bonding is a huge thing for me now. I require condoms, for Karma when he is with anyone but me and for anyone I may date in the future.

I have had cervical cancer due to HPV, as well as pelvic inflamitory and when that is added to all my other medical problems it could be a much faster on set and much harder fight than others have.

I can't risk that again. Karma and I have a huge list of rules when it comes to safe sex. Unfortunately, because of my shorter cervix due to the cancer, condoms hurt me, so whomever I do choose to sleep with, if anyone, will be pretty damn special that I am willing to go through that pain to be with them.

I do believe it is a point of closeness and connection to be fluid bonded. Unfortunately there is no one in our lives I trust in that manner at the moment.

I've had condom-free sex with two of my male partners in the past (one of them was my husband) and it was great fun. Currently, I am not fluid-bonded with any of my male partners, and it's also great fun. I suppose I don't put a high emotional value on fluid-bonding as "the ultimate sexual act", but rather on our sexual intimacy as a whole.

So, while the reasons for fluid-bonding can be important (emotional exclusivity, safer sex, etc.) what I find a more interesting question is what OTHER kinds of sexual activities do people find satisfying and fulfilling? After all, there are so many ways to be sexual and to express intimacy and love with our bodies other than the simple (and rather unimaginative) exchange of body fluid via the penis-in-vagina (or possibly other orifices) sex act.

To address one important aspect of this the topic more directly, I've noticed that my younger male lovers (20's and early 30's) all seem to be much more comfortable with condom use than my older male lovers (40's and upwards). I wonder if this is due to a different safer sex education experience (post-AIDS) or if there are other cultural differences at work?

I personally would NEVER accept the "I can't get it up with a condom on" excuse from a partner. A former partner used that as an excuse to break a fluid bond agreement and it resulted in me mistrusting him (for a good reason, since he promptly contracted an STI). A little lube inside the condom and practice masturbating with one on can work wonders, as well as knowing that you're helping protect the people you love by wearing one. Female condoms may also be helpful in this situation (they work quite well, I can assure you).

I had the very awesome experience of giving an "eroticizing safer sex" workshop at a poly camp several years ago in WA and it was a great way to get people talking, brainstorming and sharing alternative ideas for incorporating sexual health creatively into our polyamorous sexual activities.

I personally would NEVER accept the "I can't get it up with a condom on" excuse from a partner. A former partner used that as an excuse to break a fluid bond agreement and it resulted in me mistrusting him (for a good reason, since he promptly contracted an STI). A little lube inside the condom and practice masturbating with one on can work wonders, as well as knowing that you're helping protect the people you love by wearing one.

I don't know your story. But, both things could be true. Your partner could have had real trouble staying hard with a condom AND had the misfortune of that coming back to bite him (and, you potentially).

Treating it as if it's not a real problem is not helpful (sorry if that's not how you feel - just taking that from the language of "excuses"). That doesn't mean, however, that you have to simply accept it and have sex without a condom.

I have over periods of my life not been able to stay hard with a condom. It becomes a frustrating dance of - "take it off, masterbate or whatever, get hard, condom on, go soft... rinse and repeat until your patience or time runs out." My guess is that during those times, there was a real physiological cause (could by mental too, I suppose). But, those two periods in my life have given me real sympathy for this as a problem.

Men, of course, can use it as an excuse because it does not feel the same and they prefer bare exclusively. That's a probelm too. Just a different one.

I personally have sampled nearly every condom made to make this less and less of an issue. For me, condom choice has made the most difference. Most everything else didn't work (including lube in the condom).

Even now, when it's much less of a problem, I will choose most often not to have sex (at least penetration), if my preferred condom is not available.

“Instead of getting better and better at avoiding, learn to accept the present moment as if you had invited it. And work with it instead of against it. And making it your ally rather than your enemy.”
-Pema Chodron

I certainly have compassion for your situation, MindfulAgony, and didn't mean to imply that it wasn't a real problem. This is why I suggested female condoms (you might want to check out this option). My point was that, for someone who feels they cannot have sexual intercourse using a male condom, indiscriminate sex without one is NOT an acceptable solution.