Is there any reason NOT to believe John Lear?

Many of us who have read Bertrand Russell know the idea, it's a matter of what he calls philosophically "suspended judgment." That part allows
continuing a free exchange of ideas. Also one may note from the Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Khun the idea of paradigms and that two
paradigms can peacefully exist together while people ask questions and possibly even find another paradigm or "conjugation," what you might think of
as a prevailing theory in the history of science.

It may well be more important to think than to believe. For me I think about religions of the world, without being trapped by any of them. Reading
books about religion and discerning what exist in those writings is highly rewarding.

I like Mr. Lear and I am willing to entertain such notions as an atmosphere on the moon, and even the "moon tower," that connect with you soul when
you go meet the "spirit in the sky." One does not need always be argumentative but rather interrogative in polite ways. One may effectively
summarize those questions and conversations with the notion "that's my argument." So that's it.

Originally posted by amehrich
I've wondered why I can't seem to find mention of him on any reputable sites. Even wiki-pedia pulled down the page on him for whatever reason.

You'd think that someone with an aviation career such as John's that he would be mentioned on a site somewhere that wasn't associated with ufos and
aliens.

[edit on 16-7-2007 by amehrich]

Here you go and quite a Factual read with plenty of John Lear mentioned and pictured. Yeah John Lear is Real. What he believes is debateable but hes a
pilot of pedigree few have achieved.
And too think Wikipedia is the only reference source available is laughable.
Check the link for a good read. www.billlear.com...

Originally posted by Dr X
Anyone who believes there is an atmosphere on the moon is mistaken, IMHO. We would see it!

admin edit: We don't use crass descriptors on ATS.

Thanks for your comment Dr X, you are obviously well informed.

Although I certainly don’t deny being ‘dumb’ (as I have done some incredibly stupid things in my life) you are going to have to include Dr.
Peter Andreas Hansen (respected and decorated Danish mathematician and astronomer) in that category as it was he who proposed the possibility of a
‘breathable atmosphere’ to the Royal Astronomical Society in 1856.

Dr. Hansen was not the first nor was he the last of famous scientists and astronomers to propose a breathable atmosphere on the moon.

His hypothesis was based on the difference between the predicted and the actual location of the moon in orbit, which indicated a 59 kilometer
difference in the geometric center of the moon and the center of gravity of the moon.

His hypothesis was accepted until 1870 when U. S. Navy Admiral Simon Newcomb (Director of the U. S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C.)
‘suggested: “In the case of the evection (periodical inequality), the supposed discordance between theory and observation would not follow from
Hansen’s hypothesis, and therefore, even if it exists, cannot be attributed to that hypothesis.”

Of course Newcomb never bothered to support his objections with any proof. And because of his rank and standing within the scientific community few
bothered to argue and support for Hansen's theory fell apart, which, of course, didn't include Hansen himself who defended his theory to the end.

Both V.A. Firsoff (Strange World of the Moon) and V.A. Pickering suggest an atmosphere on the moon.

There are several reasons why we wouldn’t be able to see a breathable atmosphere if present. One is that the atmosphere might be completely free of
any dust particles that make the earths atmosphere so visible from outer space. This is particularly true because of the extremely narrow band were
these effects might be apparent. You should remember that the moon is in rotational lock and that if comeone where trying to conceal a breathable
atmosphere and its indication by occulting that all they have to worry about about is a several hundred mile wide band between the near side and far
side.

Another is that the atmosphere may collect in craters or lower depressions on the moon and would not be visible due to occulting or Raleigh
scattering.

Whoever put the moon into orbit around the earth obviously wanted to keep it a secret and it would be logical to assume that they spent every effort
to be sure that the general population of the earth wouldn’t be able to easily figure out the secret.

And I would assume that this would include making sure that an atmosphere on the moon would not be readily apparent.

Uh oh, I'm following John Lear from thread to thread again! I must be a John Lear stalker.

Seriously though, if there are structures on the moon, and I believe there are, would it be such a stretch to think there's a breathable atmosphere?
Some advanced civilization had to build them. Were they all walking around with primitive oxygen tanks on while building these massive structures?
That's really hard for me to believe. Possibly millions of years of advancement on Earth humans and still using such a primitive technology.

Whoever put the moon into orbit around the earth obviously wanted to keep it a secret and it would be logical to assume that they spent every effort
to be sure that the general population of the earth wouldn’t be able to easily figure out the secret.

And I would assume that this would include making sure that an atmosphere on the moon would not be readily apparent.

I have never heard of this theory if you would be so kind to expand on it for me? either on this thread of in a U2U (preferably) thank you very
much.

Originally posted by johnlear
include Dr. Peter Andreas Hansen (respected and decorated Danish mathematician and astronomer) in that category as it was he who proposed the
possibility of a ‘breathable atmosphere’ to the Royal Astronomical Society in 1856.

John, that's 1856. You might as well cite ancient greek astronomers who thought that the sun rotated around the earth as your source.

can you give us anyone, other than yourself, with worthy credentials, that will go on record as stating there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon
(breathable for living humans I'd like to add).

Originally posted by VType
Here you go and quite a Factual read with plenty of John Lear mentioned and pictured. Yeah John Lear is Real. What he believes is debateable but hes a
pilot of pedigree few have achieved.
And too think Wikipedia is the only reference source available is laughable.
Check the link for a good read. www.billlear.com...

I have never understood why being a pilot lends someone credibility on any subject other than aviation. Howard Hughes was a famous pilot as well, but
I wouldn't take his advice on nutrition, or the art of enjoying life when money is no object...

Originally posted by Crakeur
can you give us anyone, other than yourself, with worthy credentials, that will go on record as stating there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon
(breathable for living humans I'd like to add).

FWIW, I will go on record to state that there is definitely not any such atmosphere. It is transparent nonsense at so many levels I don't know where
to start. Even an amateur astronomer can tell you that the observational consequences of such a hypothesis are not observed at all.

Mr. Lear has impeccable credentials regarding anything that has to do with flight, aircraft, the aviation industry, etc. I will take him at his word
on anything that that deals with those subjects because they are VERIFIABLE, for the most part. There may be no other on this planet that can speak to
the subject of aviation like he can.

The rest he speaks of is easily dealt with by the line in his ATS signature and I enjoy entertaining his ideas and opinions, but that is all it is for
me, entertainment and he can be quite funny at times as well.

I enjoy his posts though, because they make me think and helps keep my head outside the box (just not too far). I cant take any of it as truth because
there is no modern, mainstream scientific corroboration of his statements and claims, nothing that there is a majority common consensus agreeing on
that I can see anyway. Who knows? There might be a glimmer of real to some of what he says, but some real good solid verifiable proof would go a long
way to erasing doubt - something that doesnt fly in the face of all known modern science.

Originally posted by VType
Here you go and quite a Factual read with plenty of John Lear mentioned and pictured. Yeah John Lear is Real. What he believes is debateable but hes a
pilot of pedigree few have achieved.
And too think Wikipedia is the only reference source available is laughable.
Check the link for a good read. www.billlear.com...

I have never understood why being a pilot lends someone credibility on any subject other than aviation. Howard Hughes was a famous pilot as well, but
I wouldn't take his advice on nutrition, or the art of enjoying life when money is no object...

As stated in my above quote you used. "What he believes is debateable".
I couldnt have made the point your distincting any clearer.
And yes hes a very proven aviator and anything else by him other than flying is purely speculative. However he does posses more actual mainstream
knowledge than many debunk's want to give him credit for.
You saying without a doubt there is No atmosphere is no better (and weaker) than John saying there is an atmosphere.
Point is until I put my boots down on the Moon I cant say either way.
But a guy Ive known of for 40 odd years(John) and as a test pilot no less
says hes heard and seen some things and then combined with the same type of over the top debunk acts....Well lets just say Im listening too both sides
and realizing one party goes way overboard too go after John who is supposedly nutz by some folks line of thinking. So why the concentrated effort on
John folks? Afterall according too a select few he's just all smoke and mirrors.

You might as well cite ancient greek astronomers who thought that the sun rotated around the earth as your source.

I believe it was more the church than the astronomers themselves that believed that. I could be wrong though.

can you give us anyone, other than yourself, with worthy credentials, that will go on record as stating there is a breathable atmosphere on the
moon (breathable for living humans I'd like to add).

No. I will be take responsibility for that concept. Although I am not a scientist I am working on how and where the breathable atmosphere is
disitributed. Some of the problems in figuring this out are getting the 'true' altitudes of the mares, craters and mountainous area on the near side
and craters and mountainous areas on the far side. The altitudes of these various land forms and those altitudes in relation to the geometric center
of the moon as compared to the center of gravity of the moon would give us a clue as to how the atmosphere on the moon might be distributed.

In other words the atmosphere on the moon, because of the difference in the geometric center and the center of gravity might be distributed
differently than the way we know it to be on earth. Of course gases on the moon have to obey the same laws as here on earth but there may have been a
little finagling in the construction of the moon to help keep its secret.

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