Apple reportedly marching on with Pandora-like music service for 2013

Expected to be ad-supported, but only if Apple can reach agreements in time.

Apple's rumored Pandora rival may launch in 2013, as long as Apple reaches agreements with music labels over the next couple months. That's according to a new report from Bloomberg, which cites sources claiming that Apple has "intensified" its negotiations in order to launch an Internet radio service by next year.

Apple has been rumored to be working on some kind of music streaming service foryears, but the rumor popped up again last month when the Wall Street Journal said Apple was once again working on it. At that time, it was believed that the new service would work on Apple's iOS devices as well as Macs "and possibly on PCs," indicating that it might be available to both mobile and desktop users via iTunes.

Bloomberg's sources didn't focus much on the functionality of the supposed service, but pointed out that it would be ad-supported. Apple's negotiations apparently revolve around this point—record companies reportedly want an "upfront fee" for Apple playing their songs in addition to a cut of the ad sales. And that's not counting their own ads for individual artists, either. "Apple sees the service as a way to grow its iAd mobile advertising platform, and is exploring ways to integrate iAd with iTunes to steer customers back to iTunes," Bloomberg wrote.

As I wrote in a staff blog post in September, a streaming, Pandora-like service isn't too far out of left field for Apple, despite the company's success with music downloads through iTunes. Music listeners of 2012 are increasingly turning to streaming services like Spotify, Pandora, Last.fm, Rdio, and others to get their fix, and leaving "old fashioned" music purchases behind. Apple most certainly doesn't want to lose (more) money to the competition, which is why it makes sense to explore the possibilities with its own ad-supported radio service.

Jacqui Cheng
Jacqui is an Editor at Large at Ars Technica, where she has spent the last eight years writing about Apple culture, gadgets, social networking, privacy, and more. Emailjacqui@arstechnica.com//Twitter@eJacqui

It will certainly be interesting to see what they do, but I feel that simply implementing an ad-supported Pandora-like service will be too little, too late.

IMO, they need to turn their iTunes Store into a streaming option more akin to Spotify or Rdio, whereby I can browse the store and add whomever I like into my Library, for something like $10-$15 a month. Hell, I'd pay $20 if it was done really well.

I already subscribe to MOG (with no ads), so unless Apple offers a very compelling alternative, iTunes will just be one of those rarely used icons in my dock.

I wonder how other streaming services will survive. Microsoft is giving you free streaming of 30 million songs with the Xbox Music service with every Windows 8 PC.

It's not that easy. Microsoft is giving you 6 months of free streaming, and then you are either time-limited or paying the same $10 per month as everyone else. Sure, the people switching to Windows 8 will probably suspend their Spotify or Pandora subscriptions while they play with Xbox Music. But after that free trial period is up - will they stay?

I feel like I should subscribe to Pandora One in light of this news. Not that I hate Apple, but I need to support a service I enjoy and would like to see succeed in the midst of such tough competition.

i think the days of Apple bulldozing industries are numbered and i think more and more people are starting to realize it. When they released 'the best maps/navigation app ever' and then it turned out to be one of the worst, anyone with a brain immediately saw the critical difference: no Steve Jobs. And w/o a product driven leader, Apple is the same as any other company, they just have a much bigger safety cushion than most.

i think the days of Apple bulldozing industries are numbered and i think more and more people are starting to realize it. When they released 'the best maps/navigation app ever' and then it turned out to be one of the worst, anyone with a brain immediately saw the critical difference: no Steve Jobs. And w/o a product driven leader, Apple is the same as any other company, they just have a much bigger safety cushion than most.

But how do you know this isn't a Jobs concept? There really is no way to know what all he had in the works right up until he died. Hell for all we know there is a book of ideas (much like Phineas and Ferb's book) that Jobs left behind him.

I'd consider it. I love Spotify and was a Rhapsody customer for a number of years before that (also used to buy Creative products because they supported Rhapsody).

If they can basically make iTunes into a Spotify like experience at similar cost, then by all means. Especially if they can do radio stations better than Spotify. Last.fm is my choice for internet radio at the moment, and I really appreciate the scrobble tech.

i think the days of Apple bulldozing industries are numbered and i think more and more people are starting to realize it. When they released 'the best maps/navigation app ever' and then it turned out to be one of the worst, anyone with a brain immediately saw the critical difference: no Steve Jobs. And w/o a product driven leader, Apple is the same as any other company, they just have a much bigger safety cushion than most.

Jeez, but I'm tired of this Steve Jobs worshipping crap as if he did no wrong and the company is now "just another company" because a guy who was charismatic and anal, but still human, is now gone. It's about as old as the "Apple is going to go DOWN now" schtick. Not that it matters, because I hear come 21st December, we'll all be dead and then who will look silly?

If they actually manage to offer this to the rest of the world (where I happen to live) I might consider it. Music streaming by US companies right now is quite limited to the US, you know. The rest of the world doesn't care that much at all about what you can get or not over there ;-)

I love Apple products, but don't need their brand on every service/piece of tech I use.

I'd like to see them go after cash registers. Every third or fourth time I go to a store I get the high school trainee encountering a problem, staring at the register like a rabbit staring down the charging wolf, and you lean over to look at the display on the register screen, and, sweet smoking Jesus, modern avionics displays in fighter jets are less complicated. WTF is happening in that industry?

i think the days of Apple bulldozing industries are numbered and i think more and more people are starting to realize it. When they released 'the best maps/navigation app ever' and then it turned out to be one of the worst, anyone with a brain immediately saw the critical difference: no Steve Jobs. And w/o a product driven leader, Apple is the same as any other company, they just have a much bigger safety cushion than most.

Jeez, but I'm tired of this Steve Jobs worshipping crap as if he did no wrong and the company is now "just another company" because a guy who was charismatic and anal, but still human, is now gone. It's about as old as the "Apple is going to go DOWN now" schtick. Not that it matters, because I hear come 21st December, we'll all be dead and then who will look silly?

yeah and i'm tired of people reading two words in a post and assuming they know the rest. its pretty obvious to people who paid attention before that his attention to detail and product driven mindset carried over to the entire rest of the company (as with any CEO at any company) and those still paying attention can see the cracks/breaks in that mindset and how its allowing the new CEO's focus to drift in: profit. I'm not a Steve Job's fan, never read the books or saw the tv shows, but I do respect leaders who produce (positive) results.

I also said nothing about "Apple going DOWN!", my point was that before when Apple would break into a new market, the competition knew that Apple would only do so b/c they knew they could 'win'. I don't believe that is the case any more, Apple is simply trying to capitalize on its reputation before it is diminished by lackluster results.

i think the days of Apple bulldozing industries are numbered and i think more and more people are starting to realize it. When they released 'the best maps/navigation app ever' and then it turned out to be one of the worst, anyone with a brain immediately saw the critical difference: no Steve Jobs. And w/o a product driven leader, Apple is the same as any other company, they just have a much bigger safety cushion than most.

But how do you know this isn't a Jobs concept? There really is no way to know what all he had in the works right up until he died. Hell for all we know there is a book of ideas (much like Phineas and Ferb's book) that Jobs left behind him.

Edit: Spelling

You're right, it could be one of his concepts but I think w/o his OCD attention to detail/usability (and general leadership), it will still suffer. If it is something he laid the groundwork for, the chances are improved that it will be able to disrupt the industry though. Execution is a big part of any new product but Apple still seems to be pretty good at marketing so that's bound to get them some (read: a lot) money in any case.

I wonder how other streaming services will survive. Microsoft is giving you free streaming of 30 million songs with the Xbox Music service with every Windows 8 PC.

It's not that easy. Microsoft is giving you 6 months of free streaming, and then you are either time-limited or paying the same $10 per month as everyone else. Sure, the people switching to Windows 8 will probably suspend their Spotify or Pandora subscriptions while they play with Xbox Music. But after that free trial period is up - will they stay?

Find me someone who has tried Zune Pass recently (Xbox Music Pass with the pre-Windows-8 name) who doesn't love it. I tried both Spotify and Zune Pass and much prefer the latter. Easier to build offline music collections and far more attractive interface.

If they actually manage to offer this to the rest of the world (where I happen to live) I might consider it. Music streaming by US companies right now is quite limited to the US, you know. The rest of the world doesn't care that much at all about what you can get or not over there ;-)

I live in the rest of the world too!I'm in Canada, and Pandora hasn't managed to beat labels (or whoever it is) that see us as a threat to their profits. Netflix's licencing partners still have a lot of anxiety about foreigners as well. At least I can post on Ars, even though I must be somehow devaluing them in the process.

For a decade or more, iTunes has let you tune in to a wide variety of 3rd party streaming internet radio channels at no additional cost. Most are not ad-free but carry much less advertising than their broadcast radio station equivalents. They aren't as closely customized a listening experience--pick your genre and experiment a little to find the channel that suits your tastes vs. experimenting with what entry will get you the "best fit" for a particular mood/musical taste on services like Pandora or others.

I guess the allure of the latter approach is lost on me... I can only assume its easy enough to monetize that Apple just wants a piece of the action from a market where it already has a gigantic presence for other services.

For a decade or more, iTunes has let you tune in to a wide variety of 3rd party streaming internet radio channels at no additional cost. Most are not ad-free but carry much less advertising than their broadcast radio station equivalents. They aren't as closely customized a listening experience--pick your genre and experiment a little to find the channel that suits your tastes vs. experimenting with what entry will get you the "best fit" for a particular mood/musical taste on services like Pandora or others.

I guess the allure of the latter approach is lost on me... I can only assume its easy enough to monetize that Apple just wants a piece of the action from a market where it already has a gigantic presence for other services.

Not only does traditional radio not adapt to your particular preferences, you can't skip tracks you don't like, and you can't "thumb's down" a song you don't like so that you never hear it again. Those are huge advantages Pandora and Pandora-esque services have over traditional radio broadcast over the web (or through iTunes).

But how do you know this isn't a Jobs concept? There really is no way to know what all he had in the works right up until he died. Hell for all we know there is a book of ideas (much like Phineas and Ferb's book) that Jobs left behind him.

It probably is a Jobs concept. There have been hints that Apple's been ready due to various things in iTunes for years.. The rumor sites have been discussing this forever. See this story from a few years ago for instance.

My sense is the labels have wanted Apple to do it but Apple wanted to eck out as much money as possible from the purchase model.

Ads and music are not a healthy mix. Unless of course the music is effectively used within the Ad. But as far as I can see most of my favorites still refuse to be on these services because they know they can get a lot more from even digital album sales. So although it might be nice to have unlimited Lady Gaga, the fact you have no Black Keys is a serious omission. And it's not just that you can't get certain artists, just the ad revenue tends to favor pop ,music with people with absolutely no talent, Where the song and album don't matter but the 32 beat hook is the driver.

But as far as I can see most of my favorites still refuse to be on these services because they know they can get a lot more from even digital album sales. So although it might be nice to have unlimited Lady Gaga, the fact you have no Black Keys is a serious omission.

The following Black Keys albums are available streaming or as a free download to all Zune Pass/Xbox Music Pass subscribers:

Can you get it with the ad supported version? I know Microsoft brokered their new deal, I would imagine Apple is trying to get around this problem as well. But still even a year delay is quite a bit in terms of music.

I'm a Pandora One subscriber and will most likely continue to be one. I have years' worth of thumbs-up and thumbs-down preferences saved in some of my stations, not to mention that I have dozens of stations set up. I've discovered a lot of new artists via Pandora, some of whose albums I've then bought digital copies of. I'm not particularly interested in moving to a service that features ads -- and even if Apple offers a paid no-ad version, I already have a streaming radio service I'm extremely happy with, so it would have to be something really, really amazing to make me want to switch.

Streaming the iTunes store a-la Pandora, with ads back to the Store, seems like a no brainier but is probably complicated by all the existing licensing deals. I suspect Apple thinks they should already have the rights to "broadcast" those songs (they have samples) but I'm sure the record labels want an entirely separate fee structure.

The rumor is probably a reflection of very real Apple aspirations. Other than simply agreeing on money what could they be waiting for?

If they actually manage to offer this to the rest of the world (where I happen to live) I might consider it. Music streaming by US companies right now is quite limited to the US, you know. The rest of the world doesn't care that much at all about what you can get or not over there ;-)

You mean you don't use TOR to make Pandora accessible to you from overseas?

Never a big fan of any streaming service, I like to "own" my music. Plus I like my own playlists, not something someone else made.

I generally use streaming media to help find new music. Then, if it's worthy, I'll purchase it. My piracy days are over. I want to support artists and companies I like.

EDIT: I don't meant to imply that you're a pirate. I'm just saying that I was and this has become my route of turning over a new leaf.

True, but there are perfectly good free music streaming sources, such as Triple J, that do an even better job of promoting new music. There are others, but that one is particularly good since it's government funded and ad-free by legislation.

I spend around $15/month buying new music. I'd rather double my spending on that than sign up for a monthly streaming service. That way, if I decide not to spend anything, I can still listen to my now extensive library.

If Apple does something free but with ads, I almost certainly won't listen. There is nothing worse than a commercial to invade my thougths while working or excersising.

Apple most certainly doesn't want to lose (more) money to the competition, which is why it makes sense to explore the possibilities with its own ad-supported radio service.

Er... what money?

Last I heard, they still make only a tiny percentage of *profit* on each song. A lot of sales, a lot of revenue, but very little of it actually stays with them. I don't know if they addressed it in the most recent earnings report; but in prior reports they've consistently said that they run the store at a more-or-less break-even level to promote iDevice sales, and I haven't seen anything to suggest the economics have changed to make it a significant profit center.

I think any kind of streaming music service rumors need to be looked at in a similar light - how would a hypothetical service affect Apple's hardware sales, which is where they make their real money?

I'll admit, there may be bias on my part; I've tried Pandora several times, and dropped off after a day or two from lack of interest. But then, I also don't care for satellite radio (the last two cars I've bought had receivers built-in, and I really wish they hadn't; *some* part of the hardware cost had to be reflected in the price of the car), or standard broadcast radio beyond news programming. I've got my own music library with over a thousand CDs, and I'm quite happy to listen to the ripped tracks, picking up the occasional new music recommendations from friends and other news sources.