I read that running a Color Cube autocal affects RGB balance at some points. Are we talking about the same RGB balance controls that a Greyscale autocal would use and therefore also reset?

Thank you

No. For the radiance the 125 point calibration relies on the 21 point grayscale to set the gamma. Having only 5 control points for grayscale gamma (what you get via the 125 point cube) does not provide sufficient control to get errors as low as users expect from a 21 point calibration.

That said, the points in between the points we calibrate are affected by the 6 neighboring control points that push and pull through the middle of any interior cubes. So you will see the RGB balance is slightly disturbed. But that's beyond our ability to control, it's part of the interpolation algorithm inside the radiance.

No. For the radiance the 125 point calibration relies on the 21 point grayscale to set the gamma. Having only 5 control points for grayscale gamma (what you get via the 125 point cube) does not provide sufficient control to get errors as low as users expect from a 21 point calibration.

That said, the points in between the points we calibrate are affected by the 6 neighboring control points that push and pull through the middle of any interior cubes. So you will see the RGB balance is slightly disturbed. But that's beyond our ability to control, it's part of the interpolation algorithm inside the radiance.

Can you Post this over on the ChromaPure Forum? Tom is insisting that 21 Point AutoCal is not required, and he's dropping it in favour of only the 11/10 Point. From what you're saying, if one wants to do a proper 125 3D LUT, the 21 Point is much more preferable on the Radiance VQs.
I got a little discussion going after doing a 11 Point AutoCal, taking a reading, then upped it to 21 Point and took another reading. All the #5 points were not linear with the calibrated points on either side. Then finally did the 21 Point AutoCal to show things were now more linear.Unfortunately my photos were not the best. But from what I've seen, the 21 Point is in my methodology to stay.

Can you Post this over on the ChromaPure Forum? Tom is insisting that 21 Point AutoCal is not required, and he's dropping it in favour of only the 11/10 Point. From what you're saying, if one wants to do a proper 125 3D LUT, the 21 Point is much more preferable on the Radiance VQs.
I got a little discussion going after doing a 11 Point AutoCal, taking a reading, then upped it to 21 Point and took another reading. All the #5 points were not linear with the calibrated points on either side. Then finally did the 21 Point AutoCal to show things were now more linear.Unfortunately my photos were not the best. But from what I've seen, the 21 Point is in my methodology to stay.

We don't feel it is the interest as a company to post in our competitors threads unless we are defending our product, employees or company.

From our research and testing with all various LUT systems 1D, 3D and matrix. We have found in most cases you correct as much as you can in 1D RGB or 1D RGBCMY when you can then move onto saturation points. Our AutoCal and AutoCube process and algorithms are designed and optimized for this. As you pointed out we get the best performance by using a 21 grayscale/gamma in addition to the 125 point cube.

Can you Post this over on the ChromaPure Forum? Tom is insisting that 21 Point AutoCal is not required, and he's dropping it in favour of only the 11/10 Point. From what you're saying, if one wants to do a proper 125 3D LUT, the 21 Point is much more preferable on the Radiance VQs.
I got a little discussion going after doing a 11 Point AutoCal, taking a reading, then upped it to 21 Point and took another reading. All the #5 points were not linear with the calibrated points on either side. Then finally did the 21 Point AutoCal to show things were now more linear.Unfortunately my photos were not the best. But from what I've seen, the 21 Point is in my methodology to stay.

I'm really surprised to hear this. So you heard that Chromapure is really going to drop 21 point calibration? I am so glad to read Derek's message and see that in CalMAN they will continue to provide 21 point autocal. That is VERY important to me and glad I went with CalMAN (for many reasons besides this).

No. For the radiance the 125 point calibration relies on the 21 point grayscale to set the gamma. Having only 5 control points for grayscale gamma (what you get via the 125 point cube) does not provide sufficient control to get errors as low as users expect from a 21 point calibration.

That said, the points in between the points we calibrate are affected by the 6 neighboring control points that push and pull through the middle of any interior cubes. So you will see the RGB balance is slightly disturbed. But that's beyond our ability to control, it's part of the interpolation algorithm inside the radiance.

I think what you're saying is the 5 Grey points in the cube are skipped?

What happens if I then disable the 3D Color Gamut in the Radiance menu? Is the original undisturbed greyscale restored?

Thanks,
Stefan

- AVStefan
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I'm really surprised to hear this. So you heard that Chromapure is really going to drop 21 point calibration? I am so glad to read Derek's message and see that in CalMAN they will continue to provide 21 point autocal. That is VERY important to me and glad I went with CalMAN (for many reasons besides this).

Can you Post this over on the ChromaPure Forum? Tom is insisting that 21 Point AutoCal is not required, and he's dropping it in favour of only the 11/10 Point. From what you're saying, if one wants to do a proper 125 3D LUT, the 21 Point is much more preferable on the Radiance VQs.
I got a little discussion going after doing a 11 Point AutoCal, taking a reading, then upped it to 21 Point and took another reading. All the #5 points were not linear with the calibrated points on either side. Then finally did the 21 Point AutoCal to show things were now more linear.Unfortunately my photos were not the best. But from what I've seen, the 21 Point is in my methodology to stay.

I don't know about LCD displays but for my CRT the 5% is essential for getting shadow details right.

When you do a 10-point not sure if the points in between will be linear but there should be some kind of interpolation to make it look smooth, just like the days before 21-point calibration existed. What does the Gray/Gamma setting in the Radiance CMS menu say? If it's still at 21 Points that is a problem. Note: if you try to change it to 11 Points or less you should see a warning message about dropping points.

- AVStefan
If you like someone's post, just use the Like button to give thanks.

Hi
I'm looking at going down the calman 5 route I would like to get an idea which will it be best to use to calibrate my DVDO DUO or JVC RS60U? I'm new to this calibrations as I used to hire Isf calibrators but I've recently learned that Calman also offers Autocal like CP does but Calman is able to do the JVC RS60U as well.

I probably don't have something set up correctly as this is the first time I've attempted running a color cube. Pls see error msg below: "Hardware 3D Lut Size None" ( thanks in advance for any suggestions)

I probably don't have something set up correctly as this is the first time I've attempted running a color cube. Pls see error msg below: "Hardware 3D Lut Size None" ( thanks in advance for any suggestions)

Under the "Direct Display Control" select "Lumagen Radiance 3D LUT". It looks like you're still connected to the Panasonic.

I probably don't have something set up correctly as this is the first time I've attempted running a color cube. Pls see error msg below: "Hardware 3D Lut Size None" ( thanks in advance for any suggestions)

Yes you're still set with the panasonic as the active display, go into the display tab and switch over to the lumagen.

I have the i1Display Pro colorimeter +Calman 5.1 (latest FW)+ AVS 709 disk ( I used window patterns). I have calibrated my 60" Pioneer Kuro NON ELITE using this equipment.
I have only the Colour & Tint "slider" bar, as well as the usual Brightness, sharpness.... etc adjustments on my TV. Pretty straight forward !!

I have calibrated the set for colour & tint using the blue filter method with (Spears & Munsil HD disk as well as DVE HD BD disks) & in conjunction with Calman 4.X. When using the disks & filter I get (colour = +4 & Tint = Red 4).
I have also calibrated the set for colour & tint using Calman 5.0. When I used Calman 5.0, I got (colour = 1 & Tint = Red 1).
Yesterday, I used the Calman 5.1 software and I started to look at the "Quick Analysis" CMS chart.

With the TV settings at (colour = +4 & Tint = Red 4) my Delta 2000 chart was below 5 and below 3 for all primary and secondary colours with 100% white at 4.3 & 75% white at 4.9.
With the TV settings at (colour = 1 & Tint = Red 1) my Delta 2000 chart was just slightly better for all primary and secondary colours than the above.

Since you are using a colorimeter to set your CMS, my understanding is that you skip the blue filter color and tint step. Leave tint at 50/50 and color at default, and adjust your colors within your TV CMS.

A lot of us use the Spectracal C6, profiled off either the i1Pro or 2. Then you get the best of both.
Checking with just my i1Pro after, found very little differences in the readings of the calibration done with the C6 profiled.

A lot of us use the Spectracal C6, profiled off either the i1Pro or 2. Then you get the best of both.
Checking with just my i1Pro after, found very little differences in the readings of the calibration done with the C6 profiled.

Add to that, when I asked Spectracal about yearly re-calibration, they said, from what they've seen, they wouldn't bother.

HI I would like to make a mention for the beginners who are still deciding wether to have a go themselves in calibrating there display how impressed Ive been with Calman 5. As a beginner myself who has no idea in calibrating manually SpectralCal Calman 5 has changed that( I kid you not). I initially bought it to try out the autocal feature but I didn't realise how easy it was as it provided you with help every step of the way in there workflow. I used a DVDO DUO to calibrate with my JVC RS60U and controlling it via PC was easy using DDC(Direct Display Control) making easy to use to without the need of a remote. I did both workflows basic and advance and I couldn't be more happier with the results. I sent the workflow to Spectralcal as they said I was definitely on the right track (all the DeltasEs was under 3). The result on screen was fantastic.
Im know looking at upgrading my Duo to a Lumagen.

HI I would like to make a mention for the beginners who are still deciding wether to have a go themselves in calibrating there display how impressed Ive been with Calman 5. As a beginner myself who has no idea in calibrating manually SpectralCal Calman 5 has changed that( I kid you not). I initially bought it to try out the autocal feature but I didn't realise how easy it was as it provided you with help every step of the way in there workflow. I used a DVDO DUO to calibrate with my JVC RS60U and controlling it via PC was easy using DDC(Direct Display Control) making easy to use to without the need of a remote. I did both workflows basic and advance and I couldn't be more happier with the results. I sent the workflow to Spectralcal as they said I was definitely on the right track (all the DeltasEs was under 3). The result on screen was fantastic.
Im know looking at upgrading my Duo to a Lumagen.

Thank you for this info, I feel a little better jumping into the DIY calibration. Do you find the DOU is a good unit ?

Thank you for this info, I feel a little better jumping into the DIY calibration. Do you find the DOU is a good unit ?

Yeah I don't mind it did the job spot on! The Pq looks awesome no complaints here . Remember if you do start to go start with tutorial workflow that will teach you step by step. Beauty about it is you can go a step back if need be.