New jedi Order - Traitor. I couldn't bring myself to read more than a few pages. A whole book dedicated to my most hated character in NJO, Jacen Solo? No thank you.

Most hated by who? Traitor was where Jacen finally got the character development that made him a more rounded, even personality. The Dante's Inferno references in addition to the ideation of the Force make it possibly the best of the entirety of the EU._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:56 pm

Message

NinerPadawan

Joined: 26 Nov 2011Posts: 58

Its cool if you liked it. I HATE NJO Jacen. I like him pre Jedi order, and I'm neutral to him LOTF. But, in NJO I can't stand him. When he's just in a scene with others I can tolerate him, but when any of the books focused on him even for a little while, I hated it. He was a self centered, self important jerk, who thinks his ideals are the only right ones. I don't know what happened in Traitor, but I know I hated him just as much in his NJO appearances after Traitor. I was glad to see him killed off, although he just had to kill my second favorite SW character (Mara Jade) before getting killed .

Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:06 pm

Message

Caedus_16Master

Joined: 15 Apr 2008Posts: 5226Location: Korriban

Niner wrote:

Its cool if you liked it. I HATE NJO Jacen. I like him pre Jedi order, and I'm neutral to him LOTF. But, in NJO I can't stand him. When he's just in a scene with others I can tolerate him, but when any of the books focused on him even for a little while, I hated it. He was a self centered, self important jerk, who thinks his ideals are the only right ones. I don't know what happened in Traitor, but I know I hated him just as much in his NJO appearances after Traitor. I was glad to see him killed off, although he just had to kill my second favorite SW character (Mara Jade) before getting killed .

See that's the thing, in Traitor you see everything he ever stood for in the NJO torn down. The complaints you just made about him were all changed, and after that he never got the same character work, just set up as more of a messianic thing. But he had all of his ideals destroyed and his personality rebuit in Traitor. Plus I mean...its by Stover so on those grounds alone it should be at least readable._________________Perfection is a lifelong pursuit requiring sacrifice. The only way to get it quicker is to sacrifice the most.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:11 am

Message

Darth_HenningMaster

Joined: 12 Apr 2011Posts: 577Location: Canada

I've actually got to go with Niner on this one.

I read Traitor when I read through the NJO, and I was in pain almost the entire time. I like Stover, but this was also one of my (if not the) least favourite EU novels.

Jacen from the beginning of the NJO through when he turned to the Dark side was simply an annoyance to me.

In a way, its quite obvious how the original plan was for him to die in SBS, and to me quite sad that we'll never see how Anakin's story would have played out had he lived.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 7:16 am

Message

WerehunterKnight

Joined: 08 Apr 2011Posts: 362

I'm another who disliked Traitor. The only good part of it is the death scene at the end, which ranks at the top of death scenes in the EU. Everything else fell flat for me.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:37 pm

Message

NinerPadawan

Joined: 26 Nov 2011Posts: 58

Caedus_16 wrote:

Niner wrote:

Its cool if you liked it. I HATE NJO Jacen. I like him pre Jedi order, and I'm neutral to him LOTF. But, in NJO I can't stand him. When he's just in a scene with others I can tolerate him, but when any of the books focused on him even for a little while, I hated it. He was a self centered, self important jerk, who thinks his ideals are the only right ones. I don't know what happened in Traitor, but I know I hated him just as much in his NJO appearances after Traitor. I was glad to see him killed off, although he just had to kill my second favorite SW character (Mara Jade) before getting killed .

See that's the thing, in Traitor you see everything he ever stood for in the NJO torn down. The complaints you just made about him were all changed, and after that he never got the same character work, just set up as more of a messianic thing. But he had all of his ideals destroyed and his personality rebuit in Traitor. Plus I mean...its by Stover so on those grounds alone it should be at least readable.

I didn't notice any difference in Jacen after Traitor. He was always my least favorite of the solo children, but I liked him in the Young Jedi Knights books, and in other pre NJO stuff. As for Matthew Stover, without looking online I couldn't even tell you what SW stuff he's written, although the name is familiar. For me, the SW writers that are my favorites are Karen Traviss, Timothy Zahn, Michael Stackpole, and Aaron Allston. Stover has (according to wikipedia) written 4 SW books (Traitor, Shatterpoint, Revenge of the Sith novelization and Luke Skywalker and the Shadows of Mindor), and of those I've only read a few pages of Traitor, so I can't say if he's a good writer or not.

I do know that Traitor is definately the EU book I really hate, but I wouldn't blame the author neccessarily. Even in the really good NJO books he was in, I hated Jacen. A book all about him in that era is pretty much a nightmare for me, even if one of my favorite writers had written it, so I don't blame Stover for the fact that its my pick for worst EU book.

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:54 pm

Message

Mara Jade SkywalkerAdministrator

Joined: 15 Feb 2008Posts: 6205Location: Beyond Shadows

I actually really enjoyed Traitor. One of my favorite EU books, and I don't even like Jacen. Matter of opinion, I guess._________________"It's not about the legacy you leave, it's about the life you live." ~Mara Jade Skywalker

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:05 pm

Message

ProudfootKnight

Joined: 14 Sep 2012Posts: 259Location: London

I'm going to jump on the Traitor hating bandwagon. I literally forced my way through it. Along with Dark Journey they make a pretty dull pair of books to trudge through back to back._________________On a clear day they'll see us from the beaches.

I would be curious how many of the people that liked it read it when it first came out and how many that don't like it read it recently. Or vice versa. It would be interesting to see if that has anything to do with it.

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 5:53 pm

Message

Darth_HenningMaster

Joined: 12 Apr 2011Posts: 577Location: Canada

Mad Wook wrote:

I would be curious how many of the people that liked it read it when it first came out and how many that don't like it read it recently. Or vice versa. It would be interesting to see if that has anything to do with it.

Read it with all 19 books of the NJO. I read all but TFP and TUF in a 2 week block shortly before those two came out, so..2002 or 3 I think?

Basically about when it came out.

Have planned to re-read the NJO but haven't gotten to it yet.

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 7:46 pm

Message

WerehunterKnight

Joined: 08 Apr 2011Posts: 362

I read it once when it came out and re-read it once a few years later. It was that later reading where I realized how bad it was in my opinion.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:56 pm

Message

Darth SkuldrenModerator

Joined: 04 Feb 2008Posts: 6844Location: Missouri

I find this amusing because I generally don't like Jacen, but Traitor was the one book I liked him in. I thought it was a good book, but then again, I'm a fan of Stover. Maybe he's writing style doesn't work for some people._________________
"I believe toys resonate with us as humans, we can hold them them, it's tactile, real! They are totems for our extended beliefs and imaginations. A fetish for ideas that hold as much interest and passion as old religious relics for some. We display them in our homes. They show who we are. They are signals for similar thinking people. A way we connect with each other...and I guess thats why I do toys. That connection." -Ashley Wood

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:59 pm

Message

Taral-DLOSMaster

Joined: 23 Nov 2010Posts: 1943Location: Ontario, Canada

Even though it's my least favourite EU book, I picked up a hardcover of The Crystal Star from Value Village last week.

Why? Because it was hardcover and Star Wars._________________"I'm...from Earth."

I find this amusing because I generally don't like Jacen, but Traitor was the one book I liked him in. I thought it was a good book, but then again, I'm a fan of Stover. Maybe he's writing style doesn't work for some people.

Its not stover. I loved LSATSOM (possibly my favourite EU novel). And anything else he's done I've enjoyed to at least some degree.

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:19 pm

Message

Taral-DLOSMaster

Joined: 23 Nov 2010Posts: 1943Location: Ontario, Canada

Darth_Henning wrote:

Darth Skuldren wrote:

I find this amusing because I generally don't like Jacen, but Traitor was the one book I liked him in. I thought it was a good book, but then again, I'm a fan of Stover. Maybe he's writing style doesn't work for some people.

Its not stover. I loved LSATSOM (possibly my favourite EU novel). And anything else he's done I've enjoyed to at least some degree.

I didn't care for LSATSOM, but the rest of Stover's books were excellent, in my opinion. But I think his writing style can grate on some people. There's almost no dialogue (but what dialogue there is is usually excellent, like "None shall pass", "Everything I tell you is a lie," or my favourite "It's not Master Jedi. It's JEDI MASTER.") And his imagery descriptions can get a bit flowery. Too many words to describe simple ideas. I love it (I love words!) but it's not for everyone._________________"I'm...from Earth."