I wasn't. There is no reform. Ever since 1985 when the DLC was formed there has been a movement by party elites to outdo Republicans in being corporate whores. The DLC writes the policy, because the DLC brings in the money. The end was known from the beginning. You don't start off bargaining with what you want, you start off with dreams and settle in the middle.

When this bill goes to reconciliation, the Public Option will have to be a non-starter, and there will be pressure on the left to take what we can get or doom us to no reform. Since there is no reform in the bills, it will be bullshit, but I expect the talking points to go out and for people on here to buy it.

Let us make this clear, the Insurance Companies are fine with the Medicare provision. They can dump their over 55 population onto the Government and milk the younger population more. Congress has essentially thrown the youth to the wolves. All those over 55 celebrating, you are dooming your children and grand children to no reform because we will experience cuts on those programs in the future when we have to pay for the debt of the past 30 years and the next 10. Shame on you.

Free Trade, Taxation, Banking Regulations, and now Health Care reform. Cap and Trade is next, and if you think that is about environmental policy, ask yourself why the concept was created with consultation by Enron and the person who invented derivatives is a key contributor. I think Al Gore is a better man than George W. Bush, but I do remember him selling NAFTA on TV in the 90s. He isn't on my side. I'm not a climate change denier but the most common sense approach of regulation and taxation of imports that violate environmental standards is immediately dismissed because it will upset a few donors.

Are the DLC better than the GOP? I don't know. The DLC moved in lock step with the Bush agenda while crying about it. They love to privatize everything. They view the people on the left with more contempt than people on the right. Are they better? They get to use the democratic brand created by FDR to do republican things. They bought our brand, and they will use that goodwill from it to enact their agenda.

The old feast on the young. We inflate our holdings and make the young pay the inflated prices; because we can and you do.

Only collapse will change the way we do what we do. Don't tell us you want collapse, that would hurt everyone. Get used to it and if you survive you can do it to the youth when you get old. Ya know, get even. <grin>

11. There's no point in a private insurance mandate if you're going to junk it in the first place.

Junking it would mean replacing the mandate with a taxpayer subsidized single-payer plan or a combination subsidy/premium single-payer plan. The bill devotes, what, 800 billion to setting up a private mandate with subsidies for poor folks? Why invest so much money into that when the whole goal was originally to get single-payer in unless that never was the intended goal in the first place?

Single-payer was taken off the table precisely because the Public Option was supposed to be the compromise, and Obama campaigned against a mandate in the primaries to begin with compared to both John Edwards and Hillary Clinton, but now there's talk of getting rid of the Public Option in favor of some combination of subsidy/private mandate with a Medicare buy-in for people 55 and over? What's up with the changing of the goal posts every three or four weeks? The only person seriously suggesting we go single-payer was Dennis Kucinich, and he was never taken seriously.

4. Think about it. This piece of crap legislation will force a 28 year old girl

to buy, at a very high rate, health insurance that does NOT cover: contraceptives, abortion, dental. For her, it is a total waste of her money. Of course she could pay the fine, but who knows how high that will end up being.

I don't need medical coverage. I'm a retired disabled vet, but my children need it. This mandatory give away to health insurance corporations kings, I mean CEOs, is a scam.

31. That made me think of Paula Cole and Where Have All the Cowboys Gone.

Instead of a classic western where the hero shows up just in time, I think that we're going to end up being figuratively lynched before our hero rides into town.

Where is my John WayneWhere is my prairie sonWhere is my happy endingWhere have all the cowboys gone

In the modern western, the people that we were counting on to rescue HCR are down at the saloon drinking with the lobbyists and the corporate shills. And of course, the saloon is owned by the Health Insurance Companies.

I still am hoping that somebody on the (D) side proves me wrong, but I'm not exactly overly optimistic.

"The treason of the Senate! Treason is a strong word, but not too strong, rather too weak, to characterize the situation in which the Senate is the eager, resourceful, indefatigable agent of interests as hostile to the American people as any invading army could be, and vastly more dangerous; interests that manipulate the prosperity produced by all, so that it heaps up riches for the few; interests whose growth and power can only mean the degradation of the people, of the educated into sycophants, of the masses toward serfdom."

Democratic Senate negotiators struck a tentative agreement Tuesday night to drop the controversial government-run insurance plan from their overhaul of the health-care system, hoping to remove a last major roadblock preventing the bill from moving to a final vote in the chamber.

In addition, people as young as 55 would be permitted to buy into Medicare, the popular federal health program for retirees. And private insurance companies would face stringent new regulations, including a requirement that they spend at least 90 cents of every dollar they collect in premiums on medical services for their customers.

The announcement came after six days of negotiations among 10 Democrats -- five liberals and five moderates -- appointed by Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) to work out differences between the two camps on the public option and other pressing issues. Appearing in the Capitol with Sen. Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.), the leader of the liberal faction, and Sen. Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), representing moderates, Reid hailed the deal as a broad agreement that has the potential to "overcome a real problem that we had" and push the measure to final Senate vote before Christmas.

"Not everyone is going to agree with every piece," Reid said. But when asked whether the deal means the end is in sight after nearly a year of work on President Obama's most important domestic initiative, he smiled. "The answer's yes," he said. ....

25. The thing that bothers me the most is that Obama will sign any bill. This is not mentioned enough.

Edited on Wed Dec-09-09 12:39 PM by OmmmSweetOmmm

BTW....it seems that with the talk about extending Medicare to those 55-64 would benefit me, I think it would be horrid to have both a mandate and no public option available to those below my age group.

I'm 59 but I'm not willing to throw my/our kids under the bus. If they pass this, I will refuse to pay any mandate that comes my way, demonstrate alongside the kids (if they show up) as our parents the "greatest generation" would NOT, and get jailed if need be - it won't be the first time anyway. I'll refuse their bullshit mandate, even if I'm a riot of one!

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