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I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

And tofu hotdogs? Shame! There's pigs out there that were willing to lay down their lives to provide you with a decent hotdog (well, maybe not willing as such, but bred for the purpose)...

I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

And tofu hotdogs? Shame! There's pigs out there that were willing to lay down their lives to provide you with a decent hotdog (well, maybe not willing as such, but bred for the purpose)...

I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

My wife injured her arms in the past on a hammer action DP and it comes back pretty quickly when playing hammer action DPs. Our grand piano also hurts her if she plays too much. Her theory is it's a combination of weight and key bounce-back that does the damage. The non-weighted DP at church doesn't seem hurt her.

She only uses the DP during teaching now and then, mainly to entice the young ones to play, otherwise it's AP all the way. And she uses the DP to practice and time her church stuff (mostly strings / organ / piano) every other week.

I'm not saying I'm dead set on altering the NX weighting, but I'll definitely take a good look at the key weight mechanism to see if it's easily modifiable.

I agree, I think PHA-III is perhaps weighted akin to a pretty light grand piano (within the normal range of grand pianos, but at the light end). Dewster, if your wife is going to continue to teach using the RD perhaps it should remain as-is for the benefit of her students.

My wife injured her arms in the past on a hammer action DP and it comes back pretty quickly when playing hammer action DPs. Our grand piano also hurts her if she plays too much. Her theory is it's a combination of weight and key bounce-back that does the damage. The non-weighted DP at church doesn't seem hurt her.

She only uses the DP during teaching now and then, mainly to entice the young ones to play, otherwise it's AP all the way. And she uses the DP to practice and time her church stuff (mostly strings / organ / piano) every other week.

I'm not saying I'm dead set on altering the NX weighting, but I'll definitely take a good look at the key weight mechanism to see if it's easily modifiable.

I'm sure we are all going to be watching your experiment with great interest as it will be first.

Dewster, have you thought about getting an 88-key controller or other DP with a lighter action that you can MIDI to your NX? That way you keep the Roland's value intact, leave it available for when you need a fully-weighted board, and are still able to access the SN pianos.

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

Dewster, have you thought about getting an 88-key controller or other DP with a lighter action that you can MIDI to your NX? That way you keep the Roland's value intact, leave it available for when you need a fully-weighted board, and are still able to access the SN pianos.

Good suggestion, though that would really complicate our studio setup.

If I find the mod doable and actually go through with it, I would definitely reveal that fact any future potential buyers, but I'm not sure how obvious it the absence of hammer grading would feel to most players. It's nowhere near as obvious as the grading on our real piano.

Part of me wants get something like the Raspberry Pi minicomputer, a good set of keys, some speakers, a flight case to build it in, and just DIY my own DP and be done with all of this nonsense. All I'd need then would be a clone to actually do the work.

Part of me wants get something like the Raspberry Pi minicomputer, a good set of keys, some speakers, a flight case to build it in, and just DIY my own DP and be done with all of this nonsense. All I'd need then would be a clone to actually do the work.

Do you have an off-the-shelf software piano in mind, or are you really talking about building something from the ground up? As far as software is concerned, I personally think you own the best compromise between playability and sound quality that I've yet found (though I have not played the Kawais or the V Pianos). The APs in the RD-700NX are about as responsive as Pianoteq and sound more realistic. Ivory II sounds better, but I've not gotten as much responsiveness out of it as I have from the SuperNatural APs in the RD-700NX and Pianoteq. Consequently, for practicing classical repertoire, I find that I need to use the Roland or Pianoteq. I'm hoping Pianoteq 4 will come along and shake things up. Otherwise, the next stage of improvement is looking like it will come from a V Piano 2.0.

As for Roland's "graded" keyboard, it is so subtle that I wouldn't know it was there if the spec sheet didn't say that it was.

Dewster,Have you looked at the M-Audio controllers & pianos? Some of their 88-note keyboards have semi weighted actions with internal piano sounds. If you don't like the sounds, velcro a small PC or laptop to it.

dewster, Raspberry Pi is a great initiative (once again, British engineering leads the way!), however in its current form, I don't believe the specs are powerful enough to run virtual pianos.

If you wanted to do things properly, you'd probably be better off using an Intel-based microATX board with an SSD. The OS could be Linux based, running Ivory via WINE (I believe the Muse Receptor uses the same principle).

It would be an interesting project to buy a second-hand MP8II, remove everything but the keyboard action, then mount the microATX motherboard, a small LCD (touch screen if possible), and have it running Ivory.

dewster, Raspberry Pi is a great initiative (once again, British engineering leads the way!), however in its current form, I don't believe the specs are powerful enough to run virtual pianos.

I'm sure it's more than powerful enough to run a virtual piano - the main impediment to it doing so is the processor target is ARM rather than Intel. SW manufacturers are loath to distribute their code uncompiled so one would either have to code a DP sound generator from the ground up, or somehow adapt open source.

The APs in the RD-700NX are about as responsive as Pianoteq and sound more realistic. Ivory II sounds better, but I've not gotten as much responsiveness out of it as I have from the SuperNatural APs in the RD-700NX and Pianoteq.

One thing I wish Roland had done with the SN pianos is open the hood for more basic tinkering, like they do with the V-Piano. Individual tuning of the unison strings for instance might help fix a few rather lifeless decays in the stock configuration. That and other adjustments might allow us to tailor a sound with more character.

Originally Posted By: kippesc

As for Roland's "graded" keyboard, it is so subtle that I wouldn't know it was there if the spec sheet didn't say that it was.

Yes the grading is subtle, though I can feel it if I compare bass keys to treble keys.

Hello folks Obviously I couldnt read through all the posts on the 700nx, I hope this has not been covered

I recently bought a 700nx as my main paino keyboard in my studio. I had to wait until today to get the pedals - eathquake problems ( you only realise what the japanese do for the world when they stop doing it - my best wishes to the nation)Firstly, I cant get the triple pedals working with the grand and wonder whether the 700NX actually supports threee pedals - the sustain works, but I can hear no audible difference on the other two. There is much to love about this keyboard - the build quality is superb and replaces for me a Stage which did not work out piano wise. I love the action. However, so far I cant get much of a sound from it.I have just done a factory reset and started playing the grand in default settings, the upper register seems a little dull, its hard to get a ring out of a note. I could use a littel reverb, but if the sound is not right in the first place...

Firstly, I cant get the triple pedals working with the grand and wonder whether the 700NX actually supports threee pedals - the sustain works, but I can hear no audible difference on the other two.

All three work on our NX.

The center pedal is sostenuto: play a note and hold it, then depress the center pedal and hold it, then lift the key - the note should behave like you are holding down the sustain pedal, but only this note. Play any other notes and they will damp at key-up.

The left pedal is the soft pedal and it is most subtle on the default piano. Try switching to Studio or Brilliant. Trill two notes continuously while listening to the difference between pedal up and down. Pedal down sounds softer to me.

Originally Posted By: ZeroZero

There is much to love about this keyboard - the build quality is superb and replaces for me a Stage which did not work out piano wise. I love the action. However, so far I cant get much of a sound from it.I have just done a factory reset and started playing the grand in default settings, the upper register seems a little dull, its hard to get a ring out of a note. I could use a littel reverb, but if the sound is not right in the first place...

The Reverb is pretty much crap, I'd leave it off. Also turn off EQ, CHORUS/DELAY, COMPRESSOR, SOUND FOCUS via the front panel. For more lushness when the damper pedal is depressed try increasing the Depth of the Sympathetic Resonance. Turn the String Resonance all the way up, Duplex Scale all the way down. Make it brighter by increasing Lid & Tone Character.

If you are listening to it through poor speakers or cheap headphones it can sound pretty lame.

Yesterday I was playing around with the SuperNATURAL piano voices on our Roland RD-700NX and noticed what seemed like a faint springy sound in the background. So I went into the "TONE EDIT" menu and tried turning up the "Duplex Scale" to see if that was causing it - nope. Was it the "String Resonance"? The "Key-Off Resonance"? Nope and nope. Actually it sounded kind of like the "Damper Noise" (the sound produce when the pedal is quickly depressed) but adjusting that didn't seem to change it either.

I went into the "Sym. Resonance" effect menu and turned the "Depth" all the way up - that seemed to make the springy sound louder. With the "Level" adjustment in this effect I found that I could reduce the sound of the piano notes but the springy sound level remained unaffected.

OK, so now I could clearly hear the isolated springy sound, and indeed it sounded very much like the damper noise but instead was triggering every time I played a note (with the pedal held down). Two different versions seemed to be randomly triggering, one short, one longer. I could get it to happen every time I played a single note as many times as I wanted to, but if I played other notes at some point the sound would cut out and not play again until I lifted the pedal and pushed it down again. Some kind of strict polyphony limitation seemed to be kicking in?

I normalized the levels in Adobe Audition to -1dB so you can hear it better. I also set the "Level" to 2 so that you can faintly hear the associated notes I was playing. (In the factory presets the "Level" is set much higher so the piano sound generally swamps the springy sound.)

In the first part of the recording I pressed and held the damper (right) pedal and played a MIDI C4 note (middle C) 46 times - you can hear the short and long versions of the sound playing randomly with the note. Then I walked down the white keys, and you can hear the noise stop playing after the 13th note and you don't hear it again after that until I lift the pedal and press it again for the second part.

In the second part of the recording I did pretty much the same thing with MIDI C2, then walked up. The same thing happens. Grrr!

Could anyone else try to replicate this on their NX? I've got the latest firmware v1.03 installed.

Here is how I did it:1. Turn the NX on, the default voice "Concert Grand" should be selected automatically.2. Press the "TONE EDIT" button under the screen.3. Press the right arrow button (@ spinner) to see the next menu page.4. Spin down to "3. Sym. Resonance" and press the Enter button.5. Set the "Depth" to 127.6. Set the "Level" to 0 (I set this to 2 in the MP3 above to hear the notes too).7. Turn the volume slider all the way up.8. Press the damper pedal and play some notes. 9. Lift the pedal, then press it again, then play some more notes.

What happened to good coding practices? Is no one independently and comprehensively checking each firmware release for bugs? All of the firmware issues that myself and others are experiencing lately are completely turning me off to DPs.

There's only one sound now, kind of a short snare drum sound, rather than a random selection of short and long. But it still has the limited polyphony or whatever: it disappears after playing 13 different notes, and returns after a pedaling.

I just posted this over on another thread and thought it should go here too.

The "Concert Grand" voice in the RD-700NX is a complex piano sound that is fairly dark when played lightly but can get strident when pushed harder - as a result it really demands headphones or a high fidelity stereo sound system to sound good, which isn't your average PA or keyboard amp scenario.

Turning up the "Tone Character" brightens it up, and EQing the low end up helps bring out the somewhat anemic bass. There's almost no such thing as too much sympathetic resonance, but turning the effect past 80 or so starts to sound unnatural. The lame reverb just muddies things up so I always turn it off. Sound Focus, even if turned all the way down, can limit the dynamics, so I turn that off too.

Something I wasn't initially aware of on the NX: you can assign any patch as the default for the factory preset buttons. With the patch selected simply mash the desired preset button for a few seconds and it will be assigned, kind of like some car radios.

I'm sure this subject has been beat to death and I've seen where some players have got their keybeds swapped out under warranty but call me crazy, I like the wear. I have had the board for a year now. I perform every weekend and practice 8+ hours a week and the slight wear is creating a surface that I can totally rip on with sweaty hands.

I was a little annoyed at the wear at first until I played my old board (standard/normal grade plastic). I did read that the key surface was built to improve with play. (not sure if that was Roland backtracking but it's true in my case)

Can't figure if it was a smart move or dangerous move for Roland because it's definitely a personal preference and I can see how it would annoy players. I guess I'm lucky cause I like it (prefer it actually).

If you're reading this and still shopping for a board - Piano sounds are fantastic and the feel is awesome, but I'm a piano player - not a keyboard player. Roland seemed to focus more on the piano for sound than keyboard, but that's my only complaint. Strings and Pads are all standard and I can get better sounds out of garageband. It wouldn't have cost Roland much more to get a few good quickfire Pad sounds - I can adjust the waves myself but would like a few good options on the fly like they did with the Piano and EP sounds. Also the Organ sounds stink, but I'm not an organ player either so even if it did have a good B3 sound - I wouldn't be able to make it sing anyway (technique I'd love to learn someday) I don't know what to do with the drawbars either other than goof around so keep that in mind with my complaint. I just hook my Mac up to it and Logic takes care of my sound gripe though.

I love the board and am very very happy. No key issues, never has locked up and I travel with it weekly = Pack up, car, unpack, play, pack up, car, unpack and play - type weekly.

It's a road warrior but hit the gym if you're low on arm and back strength. A great board like this with a case makes for a very heavy traveler - wheels on your case are an absolute 100% requirement.

It has been a while since I have posted at pianoworld. But there is a new member in my family so I thought I would share. I have had my RD700NX for about a month and a half. And what a great machine! The user interface seems quick and easy compared to other boards I have used.

I joined a band after years of hibernation. My wife thinks it is a really bad case of mid life crisis. She might be right, but it is fun.

I have two set ups. At home, I run the RD through logic and use Logic effects, piano hard compression, grand piano1 EQ, Clean tube amp(american,DI box settings) and reverb set to wooden verve. Sounds great through the monitors! Very close to Ivory quality.

For the live rig, I had to upgrade to a better amp because the drummer is loud and I am competing with 2 guitarists. I ended up with a pair of QSC K10's. These monitors were built with keyboard in mind. Lots of watts in a small speaker and sound better than all the big name monitors I tried. They mean it when they say K is for keyboard. None of the boxy sound most amps give on grand piano patch. It all fits in a small car with the back seat folded down.

The organ sounds are so good on the RD I sold my Roland VK8. I do not have to adjust the draw bars on the fly for the work in the band so the RD works well. However,it seems that to use a pedal to kick on the rotary horn, and a pedal for volume control, the patch has to be saved to Live Set. There does not seem to be a global setting for pedal functions. Did I miss something in the manual?

I have started having issues with the keyboard not getting a key off or pedal off command. Sometimes a certain note or several notes will not stop sustaining. The only way to get it to stop is to change patches. I have disconnected the USB to see if it happens when the Keyboard is not connected to the computer and so far it would seem the issue is with Logic and the RD. Logic does sometimes get hiccups when using other applications at the same time. The sustained notes never happened with the Motif. Any one else experience this?

As far as the weight, the RD is half the weight of the keyboards from the 1970's and 30 pounds less than the Motif 8 it replaced.

The authentic coloration of grand-piano keys can also been seen on the sides of the white keys.

Is this all the -S really boils down to? No fake wood color on the sides of the white keys?

If so, who cares - If not, I do.

I haven't read the entire thread but was interested in this.I have had two Rolands, an RD300s, (slipperykeys) and a RD700NX that I now play.The keys of the 300s were lead weighted, like authentic acoustic piano keys,

The FP7 is described as "one-piece", no way does that imply the quality of the PHA III.

It could well be therefore, that the difference is far more than cosmetic.

"...The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material ..."

Hmm.... RD700 NX wins it for me, despite being hideous, useless for putting music on, the stupid joy-stick, (show me a pianist wasting the left hand on a joy-stick and I believe you are showing me a person who is not a pianist!!)

Mine has other problems, there is a very unpleasant click on many tone-wheel organs and Acoustic Bass 3, to name but a few, when the key is released.

I could whine on at length about what I dislike about it, but I would still buy it again as it was the nearest thing to perfection other than a V-Piano which I simply can't afford.

As I play virtually only the piano voices, with a bit of string quartet for fun, it doesn't matter much, anyway.

The FP7 is described as "one-piece", no way does that imply the quality of the PHA III.

It could well be therefore, that the difference is far more than cosmetic.

"...The keys are constructed of a one-piece proprietary material ..."

Hmm.... RD700 NX wins it for me

I think the RD700NX and FP7F use the same keys.

I think the FP7 was the same, except with the glossier feel and without the third sensor.

Maybe someone else here can confirm that my memory is correct on these things.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys

RD700 NX wins it for me, despite being hideous, useless for putting music on, the stupid joy-stick, (show me a pianist wasting the left hand on a joy-stick and I believe you are showing me a person who is not a pianist!!)

The FP-7F is basically the "straight piano" version of the RD-700NX, the latter being designed as having the additional functions of more of a multi-purpose device. Except for the odd decision of also putting a larger quantity of different piano sounds in the 700 than the 7, which somewhat runs contrary to that product differentiation.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys

there is a very unpleasant click on many tone-wheel organs and Acoustic Bass 3, to name but a few, when the key is released.

I don't know whether this is what they're aiming for (not having played these sounds on the 700), but in the interest of realism. emulations of tone-wheel organs often do exhibit a bit of key click upon key release.

Originally Posted By: slipperykeys

I could whine on at length about what I dislike about it, but I would still buy it again as it was the nearest thing to perfection other than a V-Piano which I simply can't afford.

As I play virtually only the piano voices, with a bit of string quartet for fun, it doesn't matter much, anyway.

Sounds like the FP-7F might have been closer to what you're looking for? Unless you are using piano voices that are absent on the 7F.

Right and wrong. Exactly the same action, different keys. RD has the key under-structure in a different plastic to simulate the appearance of wood along the sides of the white keys. FP has all white keys with what would appear to be a slightly less textured and slightly whiter (and a good deal more resilient it would seem) version of the ivory-feel surface.

If the FP's SN pianos didn't twang horribly at medium velocities and above it would pretty much be the perfect thing, given its price point. Unless you like vintage EPs (the FP's are dire).

The 7F doesn't have the wood-effect color on the sides of the keys. Apart from that, the action is essentially identical to that on the RD-700NX, as far as anyone knows. They are both described by Roland as PHAIII. Some people have reported a slightly different feel, but I suspect that is mainly down to the 7F having on-board speakers, and possibly slightly different processing.

The reason I chose a 7F rather than the NX was down to the relative dimensions. That extended left flank makes the RD a very unwieldy board. I used to have the RD-300SX, which was pretty much the same length, only narrower - and a lot lighter. That was manageable, although it could be problematic in smaller vehicles. But combine that length with the 700's weight and depth, and you have a very awkward package. And yes, I could count on the fingers of one (left!) hand the number of times I used that awful Roland joystick. However there are some additional sounds in the RD that are much better than the lame offerings in the 7F. The FP-7F should be primarily considered as an acoustic piano substitute - and nothing else, IMO.

Nice pics of the 300S restoration!

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

That extended left flank makes the RD a very unwieldy board...And yes, I could count on the fingers of one (left!) hand the number of times I used that awful Roland joystick.

Totally agree. The form factor of it is totally wrong. The lack of symmetry bugs the heck out of me - and it's all for something that is completely useless to a pianist - the pitch-bend/mod stick. It has been a Roland thing for years now. But what were they thinking??

You can have the functionality just fine if you need it in the way Yamaha and Kawai do it - two wheels above the bass keys. Roland needs to sort that out for the next generation!

RD has the key under-structure in a different plastic to simulate the appearance of wood along the sides of the white keys. FP has all white keys with what would appear to be a slightly less textured and slightly whiter (and a good deal more resilient it would seem) version of the ivory-feel surface.

Originally Posted By: voxpops

The 7F doesn't have the wood-effect color on the sides of the keys.

I've had my RD700NX keys replaced. I think on the surface they look a lot more like the FP-7F keys; more white and non-scratching.

However, they still have the "wooden" colour on the side.

I had thought mine were FP-7F keys, possibly slightly remodelled to fit the RD700NX, but apparently they must be a variation of the stock RD700NX keys then.

Originally Posted By: EssBrace

If the FP's SN pianos didn't twang horribly at medium velocities and above it would pretty much be the perfect thing, given its price point. Unless you like vintage EPs (the FP's are dire).

Steve, maybe I should have known already -- but are the FP-7F's EP's the same modeled ones as in the RD700NX, or some other version (SN or non-SN)?

As for the twang, the RD700NX obviously offers the Studio Grand as an alternative to those not liking the Concert Grand. Could have been interesting, as others have pointed out, to have had the Studio Grand based samples/SN-model instead in the FP-7F.

are the FP-7F's EP's the same modeled ones as in the RD700NX, or some other version (SN or non-SN)?

No, they are fixed-effect, non-SN EPs that pretty much suck, unless you like a kind of "soft-brassy" EP or something out of an 80s rompler.

Edit: AFAIK, most EP players want authentic Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds. Yamaha used to try to foist FM EPs on us all the time, but they have now seen the light. Kawai now has a couple of great EPs. Roland seems to think that a watered-down version of the old SA synthesis EP, plus a few low-end samples will suffice for everything other than the RDs. The main EP in the FP-4 was actually substantially better than that in the 7F. On the plus side, the Wurlitzer samples are usable, if not great.

Quote:

As for the twang, the RD700NX obviously offers the Studio Grand as an alternative to those not liking the Concert Grand. Could have been interesting, as others have pointed out, to have had the Studio Grand based samples/SN-model instead in the FP-7F.

I would much rather have had the Studio Grand in place of ALL the non-SN sounds in the 7F. (Edit: the acoustic bass sound is actually quite good, and I'm finding it useful for gigs with LH bass, mainly played from the FP-4, which shares the same sound.)

Edited by voxpops (06/09/1211:10 AM)

_________________________"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

On the HP 302 - sound engine identical to the HP305, and similar to all Roland HP pianos with SN sound generators - the best EP is stuck away with the general midi range of instruments, and not available in the EP bank at all. It is number 53 under 'other' (GM) and has three very typical layers of response from a Fender Rhodes (not, however, blended at all!). The EPs in the EP bank are indeed rather lack-lustre.

Question: might it be possible to upgrade or substantially change the software version inside these (Roland HP/ FP etc) instruments? And might such an update be able to include this extremely interesting Studio Grand, available in the RD700NX?

And if such a thing were possible, would that be with Roland's help and approval, or would you have to be, to some extent, naughty?

No, they are fixed-effect, non-SN EPs that pretty much suck, unless you like a kind of "soft-brassy" EP or something out of an 80s rompler.

That is really too bad.

The RD700NX EP's are not particularly stellar, but I've come to find them usable with a few tweaks. For live playing, I've been surprised how well they actually have worked for me (but maybe my expectations were really low). Even those I found rather weak initially turns out to cut through pretty well when needed. But the adjustments required are not always easy to figure out; it is a bit of hit-and-miss/trial-and-error tweaking approach.

They don't sound particularly like the Nord ones -- and I think Nord actually has better effects and emulations. But they add variation to the palette, obviously, when used with a Nord.

On the HP 302 [...] the best EP is stuck away with the general midi range of instruments, and not available in the EP bank at all. It is number 53 under 'other' (GM)

What is the name of that sample? Just wondering if it is also elsewhere on other Rolands.

Quote:

Question: might it be possible to upgrade or substantially change the software version inside these (Roland HP/ FP etc) instruments? And might such an update be able to include this extremely interesting Studio Grand, available in the RD700NX?

My guess is that each piano model is 1) a set of parameters (kind of "a program") that is part of the upgradeable flash, plus 2) a large set of samples that are probably in ROM or some more resilient part of the memory that cannot be upgraded.

So I would not have my hopes to high for this to happen, unfortunately.