They sold like 12 million copies of that, and probably still make money hand over fist.

I'm okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster. Only downside of gw2's was bank slots were tied to it, granted you could also convert in game gold to gem and buy them that was as well.

I miss the vanilla or BC days. I came back for Northrend and thought it was OK, even if the armor sets were boring. Then Cataclysm made me 'meh'. I couldn't even be bothered with PandaStory. It makes me sad because I enjoyed it for so long and had some good friends in the guild. :[

The whole in-game store is mostly a non-story since the bulk of the stuff they're selling isn't going to be different than the status quo.Now, instead of my wife buying that silly pet from the website, she's going to do it while flying between pet battle trainers...

People asked for xp boosters? I'm amazed anyone actually needs that sort of thing. Getting to max level is a lesson in simplicity. If you're in a position to need something like that, you're probably in need of some serious practice with your character as is.

They sold like 12 million copies of that, and probably still make money hand over fist.

I'm okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster. Only downside of gw2's was bank slots were tied to it, granted you could also convert in game gold to gem and buy them that was as well.

I was under the impression that D3 was a colossal failure in terms of what they had expected

jayhawk88:Vanity pets, mounts, probably some items that make gear look unique in some way....and one item that you basically fall ass-backwards into anyway just for doing dailies.

I bet those drama queens on the WoW boards are just having kittens over this.

Yeah, I'm pretty surprised anyone's having trouble getting enough of those charms. This must be one of those vocal severe minority issues where the raid-rushers are looking for another reason to justify their disdain for how easy the game's gotten for the casual crowd. Oh, to long for the days where 2% of the community saw the end-game content and raid drops were handled by the guild accountant...

jayhawk88:Vanity pets, mounts, probably some items that make gear look unique in some way....and one item that you basically fall ass-backwards into anyway just for doing dailies.

I bet those drama queens on the WoW boards are just having kittens over this.

Eh but surely you can see where this is headed right? Epic loot available for purchase for cash, crafting mats, all kinds of game breaking stuff. An in game real money auction house like D3 is pretty much a no brainer.

WoW is finally in it's end of life stages and Blizz is going to milk the fark out of what's left.

ThatDarkFellow:Antimatter: syrynxx: It worked so well with Diablo III.

They sold like 12 million copies of that, and probably still make money hand over fist.

I'm okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster. Only downside of gw2's was bank slots were tied to it, granted you could also convert in game gold to gem and buy them that was as well.

I was under the impression that D3 was a colossal failure in terms of what they had expected

It had more to do with the Auction House. They built the game with the idea of a continual revenue stream coming from it and it didn't happen the way they had hoped. It also didn't help that they accidentally introduced a gold duping bug that essentially destroyed the in-game economy a few months back.

js34603:Eh but surely you can see where this is headed right? Epic loot available for purchase for cash, crafting mats, all kinds of game breaking stuff. An in game real money auction house like D3 is pretty much a no brainer.

Even if they did....who cares at this point? The freaking game is coming up on the 10 year mark....is there anyone besides forum couch fainters that are really sweating the fact that someone might be able to buy first-level dungeon epics for $9.99/piece, rather than grinding dailies or dungeons for a week to get the valor points?

Antimatter:'m okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster

My big beef with the gem store is that instead of focusing on quality items or offering quality additions to the game they seem mostly worried about selling gambling addicts dice rolls for prestige gear.

In a game with as many fun-crushing bugs as Guild Wars 2 it seems rather unjustifiable to spend ANY amount of time on something as inane as thost damned southsun supply crates.

js34603:jayhawk88: Vanity pets, mounts, probably some items that make gear look unique in some way....and one item that you basically fall ass-backwards into anyway just for doing dailies.

I bet those drama queens on the WoW boards are just having kittens over this.

Eh but surely you can see where this is headed right? Epic loot available for purchase for cash, crafting mats, all kinds of game breaking stuff. An in game real money auction house like D3 is pretty much a no brainer.

WoW is finally in it's end of life stages and Blizz is going to milk the fark out of what's left.

jayhawk88:Even if they did....who cares at this point? The freaking game is coming up on the 10 year mark....is there anyone besides forum couch fainters that are really sweating the fact that someone might be able to buy first-level dungeon epics for $9.99/piece, rather than grinding dailies or dungeons for a week to get the valor points?

I always played on and off because I'd get bored with WoW for periods, come back for a few months, quit again, etc. The last straw was the pre-Cata content patch changes, though I gave Cata a try for two or three months about a year after it dropped. I don't play anymore, haven't in well over a year and a half so I don't have a dog in this fight, but....

... it really says something about the quality of your product when you're giving people ways to pay extra in a subscription-based MMO so they don't have to play your game. Advancement in a game should be fun. If people want to skip it, it means you're doing something very, very wrong.

They sold like 12 million copies of that, and probably still make money hand over fist.

I'm okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster. Only downside of gw2's was bank slots were tied to it, granted you could also convert in game gold to gem and buy them that was as well.

11,945,000 regret that they paid ($60) for it. After playing D3 and realizing id have to buy something from auction house to advance I was done.

Maybe gamers are just done w/ obvious leveling grinds and other naked, shameless time sinks. Leveling up doesn't teach you ANYTHING about what you're doing at endgame (at least it didn't back in LK). If you already have to spend x100 hours just to grind gated reputations, dungeon points, etc., what the hell does all that leveling time actually do for you? The game never started until you learned flying, anyway. Better XP potions than real cash for bank/bag slots and shorter rez timers.

They sold like 12 million copies of that, and probably still make money hand over fist.

I'm okay with it if it's like GW2: doesn't really radically effect the PVP or PVE situation, just makes things a bit faster. Only downside of gw2's was bank slots were tied to it, granted you could also convert in game gold to gem and buy them that was as well.

11,945,000 regret that they paid ($60) for it. After playing D3 and realizing id have to buy something from auction house to advance I was done.

this. plus its the same shiat just at harder difficulties. fark it, not worth it.

Trocadero:Maybe gamers are just done w/ obvious leveling grinds and other naked, shameless time sinks. Leveling up doesn't teach you ANYTHING about what you're doing at endgame (at least it didn't back in LK). If you already have to spend x100 hours just to grind gated reputations, dungeon points, etc., what the hell does all that leveling time actually do for you? The game never started until you learned flying, anyway. Better XP potions than real cash for bank/bag slots and shorter rez timers.

better to just start a toon that's a match for anything, quest for first tier gear, and go straight to end game, with more, harder content after tier i raids. screw grinding.

skozlaw:I always played on and off because I'd get bored with WoW for periods, come back for a few months, quit again, etc. The last straw was the pre-Cata content patch changes, though I gave Cata a try for two or three months about a year after it dropped. I don't play anymore, haven't in well over a year and a half so I don't have a dog in this fight, but....

... it really says something about the quality of your product when you're giving people ways to pay extra in a subscription-based MMO so they don't have to play your game. Advancement in a game should be fun. If people want to skip it, it means you're doing something very, very wrong.

No, it would seem to me that you're playing it wrong. The most fun part game has always started at max level, not before. It is progression through the raid content, working with a team, improving your gear drop by drop so that you're ready for the next content patch, THAT is where the appeal is for most of the long term WoW players.

Not to say you can't have fun at lower levels, I have a lot of great memories of leveling up the first time... but after the first time, you know what you're working toward and getting there faster is never a bad thing!

Trocadero:Maybe gamers are just done w/ obvious leveling grinds and other naked, shameless time sinks. Leveling up doesn't teach you ANYTHING about what you're doing at endgame (at least it didn't back in LK). If you already have to spend x100 hours just to grind gated reputations, dungeon points, etc., what the hell does all that leveling time actually do for you? The game never started until you learned flying, anyway. Better XP potions than real cash for bank/bag slots and shorter rez timers.

i remember getting tired of grinding in games back when JRPG's dominated

i also remember falling in love with games like KOTOR which were short and sweet comparatively - you still had leveling but because the game was shorter leveling meant a lot more

when WoW came out i could understand the hype and excitement of RPG's with friends, but when that RPG with friends turned into second jobs, then primary jobs, then primary focus in life... it just lost all interest from me

now i still play games like Skyrim and Fallout, but at least they let me play them at my own pace and my own interest, i don't feel pressured into putting hours in basically - but if you're a completionist or want bang for your buck then there are plenty of hours to be had

that to me is the better way of doing things, Diablo 3 got boring despite the ease of the first playthroughs, if you have to implement a pay-to-win or level type of system then maybe your game design is outdated?

I'm not surprised. My husband recently started playing again after a 3 year hiatus and told me that they have implemented all types of easy mode stuff like 10 and 25 man raids now give the same item level items. Every time your raid wipes you get a buff that increases your stats so it makes it easier for you to kill the NPC's. Looking for raid cross realm feature. etc. This of course was on top of all the easy mode stuff they had already implemented before we quit. While I'm sure this sort of thing appeals to more casual players and they attract some new players with the simplifying of the game, but it seems like it ultimately ends up turning off the more dedicated/hardcore players as there is less incentive to keep playing as there's nothing to strive for. They attract temporary players while alienating steady players. This isn't not to imply I don't appreciate some of the conveniences like the portals in Dalaran and whatnot, but there is a point in which you just make the game into a joke.

The sad thing is that as far as I was concerned, even vanilla WoW was easy mode compared to EQ. Of course much like with EQ they keep stripping away what makes the game fun/interesting/exciting. Granted, I think most people just get sick of MMO's and move on after so much time has passed or real life events prevent them from playing so it probably doesn't matter too much what they do in the long run.

I have much love for Blizzard as a company for many personal reasons, but WoW seems like a lost cause at this point. It still has a very respectable player base, but I only see it declining further in the future until it eventually becomes FTP like all the other MMO's out there.

MrEricSir:Or you could send me the cash, and I'll send you a nice postcard that declares you a winner.

You're doing it wrong, you need to send a postcard that says either +100 exp, +500 exp or +1000exp depending on how much money they send you. Then every +5000exp worth of post cards send them a cheap trinket from a gumball machine and a postcard saying +1 LVLUP with something like "Congrats! You are ranked 879th nationally from 890 last month" keep changing the numbers up never down. You'll make a killing from at least 4 people trying to max their level.

thurstonxhowell:TheOriginalEd: Go play LOTRO. see how a company can turn a free to play model into a successful model (its free and its fun. theres no reason not to try)

Now imagine how blizz will fark this up and do nowhere near as well.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the LOTRO guys have lots to teach Blizzard. After all, they've made dozens of dollars with their "game".

LOTRO is the biggest waste of time. THey have an in-game store to buy access to MOUNTS. It's insane. It's unplayable without getting items from the store. If BLizz went LOTRO I would quit.

So far only two things have been brought up as possibilities- an XP boost (and so far, they've said this is only in Asian realms - where they pay by the hour so they want to cut leveling time spent), and they floated an idea about a way to get Lesser Coins of Fate.

For those who haven't played in Pandaria, these coins are given for completing dailies, killing some mobs, killing rares, ect. Every week you can turn 50 of them for 3 Greater Coins. When you beat a boss on any difficulty - including World Bosses - you get your normal loot (in LFR it's by the random roll, and however your raid normally does it on Normal and Heroic) you can elect to spend a greater coin to get a second chance at loot which is personal to you. So if I say, beat the Sha of Anger (an outdoor raid boss who drops PVP gear and T14 armor - kinda like Archivon from Wrath but outdoors), I spend a coin and the game does a silent roll, and if I win, I get a random piece of loot that he drops for my character's class and spec.

Selling a way to get an item which is used to buy an item, which only a chance at loot which you still need to beat the boss for? Doesn't exactly sound game breaking to me.

Again, just an idea they floated. And I'm willing to bet they're gonna keep the items very limited. If they haven't done it to this point why bother now? It's not like adding a Pay-to-Win button is going to get them a ton of new people, is it? "I'd love to play WoW but that darn 2 hours a month of minimum wage is just holding me back!" I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

WoW is a 9 year old game that still has more people playing it at any given time then the population of many small cities. It's lost some people due to attrition, and the general trend toward faster, mobile-based free MMOs in Asia (where a vast majority of the game's players are).

If WoW's gonna die, it's gonna die. But I don't think it is. I think there's more than enough people who like this game enough to pay 15$/month for it, and make money. If WoW wants to grow I don't think the game play is the foremost problem. I think the game needs a serious graphics overhaul - especially player models. More over, I think it might behoove them to lower the cost of services like server transfers, and offer some form of mass migration (Move all your characters for one lower price). I also think constricting some under populated realms and giving the players free transfers to any realm would be beneficial, though we'll see how Blizz's Virtual Server mods (something in the next patch that'll link under-populated realms for raiding, auction house, ect. while keeping them distinct) work out.

Deadite:MrEricSir: Or you could send me the cash, and I'll send you a nice postcard that declares you a winner.

You're doing it wrong, you need to send a postcard that says either +100 exp, +500 exp or +1000exp depending on how much money they send you. Then every +5000exp worth of post cards send them a cheap trinket from a gumball machine and a postcard saying +1 LVLUP with something like "Congrats! You are ranked 879th nationally from 890 last month" keep changing the numbers up never down. You'll make a killing from at least 4 people trying to max their level.

Mister Buttons:Deadite: MrEricSir: Or you could send me the cash, and I'll send you a nice postcard that declares you a winner.

You're doing it wrong, you need to send a postcard that says either +100 exp, +500 exp or +1000exp depending on how much money they send you. Then every +5000exp worth of post cards send them a cheap trinket from a gumball machine and a postcard saying +1 LVLUP with something like "Congrats! You are ranked 879th nationally from 890 last month" keep changing the numbers up never down. You'll make a killing from at least 4 people trying to max their level.

My server (Nesingwary) is just about dead and all of the guilds on it that were thriving a year ago are practically empty. From what I can tell PVE WoW is dying but PVP is still thriving. The reason for this is pretty simple. If you like questing and doing instances/raiding there is only so much non-repetitive content you can do. PVP is less predictable (usually).

Since I dont care for PVP Im just not sure what Im doing there. Grinding dailies is not my idea of fun and I keep having to learn new rotations every time theres a patch..... My mage got nerfed so hard I dont even want to play her anymore but getting another toon geared up that high is just drudgery. ugh.

Well it was a good run. I cant think of any other game that I enjoyed for 5 years straight. I just wish I could find another one I liked as much but so far no luck.

quickdraw:My mage got nerfed so hard I dont even want to play her anymore but getting another toon geared up that high is just drudgery. ugh.

Up until Cata, I had a Pallie Tank with Seal of Command, which was primarily a Retribution/Damage ability.Seal of Command was a buff that turned your physical attack into an AoE more or less chaining to additional targets, proced every time you connected. Hammer of the Righteous worked almost the same way, hitting multiple targets in a chain. Together, watch out, the effect was amazing, with one ability hitting a target up to nine times if there were enough mooks around to keep up the chain. I wasn't putting out Mage level damage, but I definitely hit much harder and the extra damage did wonders for aggro. I was the only one in my guild to make use of the build, too, so I felt special.Then Cata dumbed down the Talent Tree...

Sergeant Grumbles:quickdraw: My mage got nerfed so hard I dont even want to play her anymore but getting another toon geared up that high is just drudgery. ugh.

Up until Cata, I had a Pallie Tank with Seal of Command, which was primarily a Retribution/Damage ability.Seal of Command was a buff that turned your physical attack into an AoE more or less chaining to additional targets, proced every time you connected. Hammer of the Righteous worked almost the same way, hitting multiple targets in a chain. Together, watch out, the effect was amazing, with one ability hitting a target up to nine times if there were enough mooks around to keep up the chain. I wasn't putting out Mage level damage, but I definitely hit much harder and the extra damage did wonders for aggro. I was the only one in my guild to make use of the build, too, so I felt special.Then Cata dumbed down the Talent Tree...