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Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Retro Foundation Garments: Yea or Nay?

Let's talk lingerie, shall we? It's common knowledge that foundation garments of eras past (particularly the 40s, 50s, and early 60s) were much more involved than today's. They were meant to shape the body into a particular silhouette, and this often included wearing 1) a girdle with garters to cinch the waist and slim the hips and 2) a longline bra, which had the effect of lengthening the torso and shaping the breasts into a high, often decidedly pointy form.People who write about wearing vintage fashion today often insist that adopting these foundations garments is absolutely essential to achieving a proper retro silhouette. My question for you is: do you agree?

In my point of view, this is a strictly personal preference and it doesn't mean that you're doing vintage wrong if you decide to forgo these undergarments. I went through a phase where I was curious about trying retro foundation garments, so I bought a Rago girdle and a longline bra. My personal opinion on the girdle was a big thumbs-down. Aside from being intensely uncomfortable, I found it to actually create more lumps and bumps with all the hook-and-eye plus zipper action. The longline bra is definitely something I can get behind, though. For special occasions. With my satin sheath dress, it definitely smoothed out my torso and eliminated any bra bulges. But believe me, it's definitely not something I would choose to wear on a daily basis.

Personally, adopting retro foundation garments also becomes a bit problematic body image-wise. I've definitely fallen prey to the belief that if I just find the right girdle or waist cincher, I'll look just like an illustration on a 50s pattern envelope. I find it better to just focus on finding clothes that are flattering to my body type rather than trying to squeeze myself into a fictional ideal. Anyway, the great thing about sewing vintage is being able to adapt retro designs to a modern silhouette. And this means no girdles for me - hurrah! (I am, however, a big fan of high-waisted Spanx (especially the tights), and I wear them with my pencil skirts for a smoothing effect.)

For a differing perspective from mine, check out Couture Allure's posts on foundation garments and how to shop for them. She's a bit of a purist when it comes to these matters . . .but then, she's also writing about fitting purchased vintage garments, not garments sewn from vintage patterns.

What do you all think? Retro foundation garments: are they a yea or a nay for you?

46 comments:

when i got married last year, i wore a 1940's style reproduction dress. nothing fancy, just a little black dress. i also bought some repro. lingerie to go with it, a pointy bra/garter set, and a girdle from la magia.

i was planning on wearing one of these items under the dress. i found out after i got the dress in the mail, that it was meant to fit over modern lingere, not the more modest designs of the past. i had to wear my regular stuff under it. boring!

the dress was made of a more stretchy material, causing lumps, and bumps to show when wearing the girdle, and the pointy bra just peeked out the top.

i really wanted to go for the whole 1940's thing. silhouette and all.

too bad too, cause i found that bra to be one of the most comfortable that i had ever bought. :)

for me retro lingerie in only a yea if the garment is custom made to fit over the proper lingerie, or if the garment is truly vintage.

As someone who isn't a purist when it comes to vintage, I'm on the fence when it comes to vintage/vintage style foundations. I've been curious about wearing some on a regular basis (a What Katie Did bullet bra is on my wishlist, as is a garter belt since I have several pairs of vintage stockings). But I can't see myself wearing a girdle or longline in day-to-day life (although I fully intend to buy and test wearing a girdle at some point). The closest thing I've worn to that is a full-body smoother and corsets from various eras. I always end up feeling either delightfully supported (corsets), or like a stuffed sausage (full-body smoother).

But this is one of the top reasons I sew from vintage patterns: to fit to my (ungirdled) body! Trying to find actual garments that fit properly without the foundations can sometimes be a hassle. Customizing (for me at least ;), isn't.

I am definitely not a purist. I love the clothes of the past, and I love the lines they created, but I am not willing to suffer for my art. (Well, not *this* art, anyway! Ask me about my sewing-related injuries!)

I was just looking at the 1934 Sears catalog images on lileks.com, and I couldn't get over the layers and layers involved in a girdle. The female form is much too beautiful on its own to smother in all that elastic.

I think it's possible to pay homage to the styles of the past without having to cut yourself in half with a restrictive undergarment. I am a "comfort first" kinda girl, and I'm not into bondage, so girdles are not for me.

Hey - some of the best designers/couturiers of the past were in vehement opposition to girdles and shapers. Rather they insisted on the free female form being the ideal of elegance. Vionet and Chanel comes most forcefully to mind. Their work was extremely elegant as well as freeing. One could almost say they had a feminist agenda.

IMO noone looks truly beautiful in binding and uncomfortable clothes or shoes. Yes, I know it has it slightly kinky appeal,(and I could consider donning those things just to have them removed again in a fairly short time), but walking a whole day in high heels, hose and girdles is not my idea of fun. Chinese footbinding comes to mind.

This is an interesting topic, Gertie. I vote yea - with qualifications. I think it is totally about what you feel comfortable with - and you don't need foundation garments to do vintage 'properly'.

Having said that, I own a couple of the Rago cinchers and find that I wear them during the day to work, etc more and more. I guess it depends what you're used to. For me, this garment cinches the waist a little but is comfortable and when worn with the right bra, leaves me with a completely smooth line. When I bought my first one, I remember thinking that the silhouette it created was quite dramatic, but now I feel comfortable with it most days. I've also always worn stockings (or stay ups) instead of tights (which I hate) so the garters on the cincher are a real plus. I also have a couple of vintage girdles and a rago corselette which is great in winter. Interestingly, I haven't become addicted to or reliant on what foundation garments do and I still love days in jeans.

For me the issue is less one of purity and is more about whatever makes you feel good. Despite having the rather unfortunate and functional title 'foundation garments', wearing 40s and 50s lingerie actually makes me feel confident, empowered and really really good. That silhouette is no longer a prescribed norm - it is entirely my choice, so for me it is never about conformity, or just 'hiding bumps'. It is about my freedom to appropriate whatever pleases me aesthetically and to be able to live that whenever I like.

I've talked about this a bit on my blog in the past. I choose no girdle (but yes! to Spanx) for daily wear but will wear one for special occasions. I'm a firm believer in finding styles that suit the body instead. I can wear 50s dresses without full bust adjustments and taking in the waists because 50's patterns were drafted for my figure-type. When I venture into 40s or 30s fashions, I need a girdle AND many pattern alterations. I have a friend who wears the same modern dress size, but is the exact opposite. When she makes 40's patterns, she looks fantastic without foundations but needs a waist cincher or corset for 50's patterns. That's the great thing about living in 2009 and sewing/wearing vintage. We get to pick from the whole century to find what suits us best.

I'm not into vintage and definitely don't want to walk around in a pointy bra. But I am a firm believer in "proper" foundation garments. I believe there are great products on the market (I own quite a few) that will give you that same smoothing and shaping effect as the ones of the past. I remember seeing my grandmother struggle in and out of her long line girdle with the panels. Yeah... I don't want to do that! Spanx work great for me.

Well, it depends on what look you're going for. If you want to look period-accurate in your vintage or vintage-repro than you need to wear the proper foundation. It's the difference between looking right and wrong. But if you want a casual, "modern" vintage look than obviously you won't be wearing a girdle.

Wearing a girdle isn't about having a warped body image, but rather about improving what you have.

I wear a long-line bra and a waist cincher/girdle on most days because I like the look the thinner look the undergarments create and because they improve my posture! I find other women's complaints about sculpting undergarments being uncomfortable cute because it's not like they were any more comfortable in the 40s and 50s! Yet women wore them anyway and the effect was stricking enough that modern women want to achieve the same results.

I prefer the foundation garments available to us today, Spanx, for example, the ones you have chosen to wear. I have no desire to torture myself into wearing what they wore back then, especially the pointy bras. It would just look weird in today's time. I choose vintage because I think the styles are so pretty, but I'm not trying to look like I'm from that era; so I prefer to modernize my vintage. Basically, my view is similar to yours.

I think the phrase "to look like an illustration on a 50's pattern envelope" is the problem. Those were drawings, not photos. Not to mention, long time wear of any garment causes body shape to change. Just look around at the current muffin tops for proof. Did you know George Washington was "girdled" as a child? the straight back and perfect posture was a created form.

I don't think of myself as a purist, but I do own many vintage and vintage inspired foundation pieces. andI am a skinny minnie, but it puts the pieces where they should be for a vintage dress. Plus I dont wear pantyhose so I need foundation garments with garter straps to hold up my stockings. I have a full corsolette girdle form the 50s that I adore, its comfortable and gives me a pseudo hourglass figure and bullet bra silhouette. It also holds up my stockings... you cant beat it :) Plus, men think it s hot..

When it comes to actual vintage I am quite a purist, although I sometimes make dresses from vintage patterns because I love to sew. but I prefer the real thing.

Since I have started wearing skirts on my waist or closer to my waist I have had real issues with undergarments. Most of the problem is caused by multiple waistlines, i.e. my skirt at my waist, my tights at my waist and my leggings or long underwear (either over or under the tights-It's Chicago people) falling at a under belly bulge low rise level. It just accentuates the belly bulge and is REALLY uncomfortable. Though having multiple articles at my waist isn't so great either. i need to explore the SPANX aisle more. If that all in one in the illustration was relatively comfy and actually looked semi-close to that in real life- It would be perfect and I would love to own one.

I think whatever you are comfortable with is a good way to go. But particularly when buying vintage (vs. sewing vintage) it is good to at least understand that those women were dealing with a completely different ball game when it came to undergarments. My biggest question has always been how do you pee?

Just in general, people shun foundation garments. If you don't have to wear them great, but most vintage clothing was designed with wearing foundation garments in mind.

I hate girdles and boning. But I recognize that it makes a lot of clothing prettier on me. And if you find that foundation garments make an outfit look bad on you, ask yourself if it looked good before.

I am a big, big fan of vintage undergarments and of clothes that fit the waist. I cannot wear a wiggle dress without a girdle, because of the "dents" in my hips created by far too much wearing of low-cut undies and jeans. As someone above said, the clothes you wear 'shape' your body...not just your fat deposits.

I also have never found a proper fitting longline bra or girdle to be uncomfortable. Different, yes, but the slight squeeze is a nice feeling to me. If you're wearing a full skirt, most women shouldn't need a girdle as your hips aren't on display, but a longline bra or waist cincher does improve the line and the shape that wearing such a dress is trying to achieve to begin with.

I always wanted to put out a WARNING AGAINST What Katie Did shapewear for those who actually need it to SHAPE. There sizing is quite quite OFF, and the girdles are not very well made. The boning is useless in them as it doesn't even cover the length of the girdles. I do love their stockings though...

I L-O-V-E wearing girdles and long line bras, if they fit properly. I am probably not a good example though because I sang at a renaissance fair for 12 years and 50s undergarments are heaven next to a renaissance corset.

I have tried spanx but I have an incredibly short torso so they tend to roll down on me. I also like to wear thigh high socks alot so girdles are the way to go for me most days. I am very chesty too, so a bullet bra makes my back feel better.

I agree that it comes down to comfort, but I also think that one should keep in mind the overall look too. I do a lot of reenacting so I have seen many examples of women who not only don't wear period or repro undergarments, but wear ill-fitting modern garments. One thing I wish still existed was the importance placed on properly fitted undergarments. That never goes out of style!

I have zero experience with shaping underwear, so I can't say I prefer it or not. But I wonder, maybe it was a little easier for women in the 40s-60s to get into and wear those garments, because their bodies are closer to that shape? I doubt it was comfortable for them too, but just a thought.

I love the idea of having vintage (or vintage style) foundation garments for a more authentic look, but for someone who needs to buy bras in a size -C (for CONCAVE), I don't know that I could pull it off. Great topic, though - love the differing views!

In every day life, I wear high waisted dress pants or skirts and retro styled high waisted undies, to "smooth the line". I'd get a long line bra, but I'm really busty and haven't found any that fit and I can afford!

I was lucky enough to find a vintage skirt girdle and dress girdle (with bra cups that FIT!!) that are awesome, and I'll likely wear them under some dresses, but said dresses are being made so I can wear them without the girdles for an every-day thing.

I'm considering ordering an "unbelievabra" in the short style, to wear as a long line bra... I'm just not sure how it will look, with the rounded padded cups.

I don't feel I *must* wear vintage undgergarments when I'm wearing vintage clothes. I do own some pieces that are lovely - but not always comfy. My foundation garment choices are based more on my overall look. One thing I admire about women of the 40's & 50's was that they knew how to be LADIES. I despise this tacky fashion trend some women have of wearing dark bras under lite colored tops, or purposely letting bra straps show, or (puke!) letting their thongs pop out of their pants. I consider my unmentionables to be a secret that I'm not willing to share with just anyone. It's more important to me to look classy, rather than looking 100% vintage-y. I choose my foundation garments to ensure class and tact more than anything.

The 1294 is a popular girdle, but may not be the best choice for someone who has never worn a traditional girdle before – it’s one of the firmest on the market. We’ve had a vintage clothing site for years (although it’s much smaller now due to our focus on intimate apparel) and I modeled hundreds of vintage dresses over the years. It didn’t take long to realize that proper shapewear was a must, especially with those hour-glass side zip dresses. The difference was very surprising. I’ve also worn dozens of styles of girdles. Some were (and are)perfect and flattering, others made me look worse that not wearing one at all. Personally, the 1294 is not one of my favorites, but we have many customers that love it and it works for them.

For people who aren't skilled in pattern alteration, or those who buy vintage clothing, I think foundation garments can be really helpful. I have quite a small bust, and I find that wearing a bullet bra helps me fill out a dress much better than a smooth cup would. I wear a suspender belt everyday because I hate having to constantly pull up or adjust my tights at the front. I have a girdle but haven't worn it out yet so I'm not sure what that will do for me - but as another poster commented, I hate the double-butt look that comes from wearing hipster briefs.

I'm not a vintage purist at all, however. I just like pretty lingerie! I'd rather wear a girdle than spanx because mentally, I feel less frumpy, and I'll carry myself differently.

I fall on the Yea side of foundation garments. If you want a period accurate silhouette you need them. That doesn't mean you must wear them to enjoy period clothes though. I have plenty of vintage dresses that I wear with regular modern bras, it just means that the end shape is slightly different that what it was when the dress was made. And new versions of vintage patterns are drafted with modern figures, and that means foundation garments, in mind. I think the big problem with them is the same problem that exists with regular foundation garments today, miracles are expected of them and they are often not fit correctly. Plus we modern women are used to complete freedom of movement so they can take some getting used to. But foundation garments are half the fun of vintage looks!

I wrote a 4-part series on girdles(it was supposed to be 5, but it seems that I never posted the final part!)back in June. It's aimed at those who have never worn one before. Here's the link:http://www.brabarella.blogspot.com/2009/06/almost-everything-you-wanted-to-know.htmlIf you have any questions, never be afraid to ask!

Just like modern garments sometimes require different types of undergarments, so too do vintage styles. When reproducing a dress from Vintage Vogue circa 1954, I could not wear a modern bra without looking frumpy. Instead of going full fledged vintage underwear, I bought a low backed modern corset that gave me the correct upper body shape. It was comfortable and looked fabulous. In the end, I think it depends on the clothing, the body, and the overall desired look. Sometimes a hybrid of vintage and modern looks better on a body than just one or the other. Also, ones' attitude greatly affects the look - If I believe I look great, I do! I also swear by the spanx doctrine!

I wear Spanx (or rather, the cheaper Target alternative) nearly every day. Aside from having to take Prilosec every day to counteract the intense GERD they cause, I love them! I have not tried longline bras or traditional girdles but I am in favor of wearing shaping undergarments on an every-day basis and would like to experiment with them more.

I guess that makes it a conditional "Yay" for me.

Thus ends my first comment on your blog though I've been reading and back-reading rather obsessively for a few weeks now!

Yea, for special occasions. I have a waist cincher (from Frederick's of Hollywood, but totally not tacky!) that I wear when I want a slimmer, firmer waistline under my 1950's dresses. I got it to keep my post-baby belly contained so I woudn't have to make/alter my dresses for a waist size that is only temporary.

I like the way my cincher reminds me to maintain good posture. The improved posture alone makes the whole dress look better.

I also like the security of knowing that I'm not straining the seams of my dress when I go for a second piece of pie.

Structural undergarments do the same thing that silky undies do for me, they whisper a little reminder that I'm a sexy beast underneath whatever I'm wearing. The reminder changes the way I feel and the way I carry myself.

I know that at the end of the night it will be a treat for my DH to see my fancy undie ensemble. Being seen in sweaty Spanx does not have the same effect.

I prefer the waist cincher over a girdle or longline bra for the same reasons I make dresses instead of buying them: I can find something that fits either my bust or my waist or my hips but not everything at once. Even if I do find something that works size-wise, the vertical intervals are never right because I'm tall. A separate bra and waist cincher under a full skirt works for me!

For the ladies who do vintage dressing almost everyday or as part of historical re-enactment, I think they personally enjoy going one step beyond the "call of duty" and putting themselves in the same shoes (or undergarments) that the women they try to emulate would have worn.

If you don't like them or don't have the money to spend on them, there shouldn't be any pressure to conform to that standard. Every person who wears vintage or sews from vintage patterns does it for different reason and has different intentions, and should wear whatever bra or stockings (or go completely without) that suits their purpose.

Dotted Lines- I am a 38DD and I get all of my longline bras from the online store ladygrace.com and they cost between $25-30, which is cheaper than some regular bras. Plus, if you sign up for her newsletter she'll let you know when she is having a sale.

The one I use a lot is the Bali longline bra. I am shorter waisted so I wear the bra under the girdle (as opposed to on top as seen in most vintage pics) so it doesn't flip up.

Everyone needs to make their own decision about this, but personally, I love girdles. I first encountered them when I was in a play set around 1964. The wardrobe mistress insisted that all the women in the play wear real long-leg panty girdles as women in the period would have worn. Her argument was that the girdles would give us not just the right look for the period, but the right posture and body language as well. At first, we did a lot of mumbling and grumbling, and at first, to be honest, I found my girdle very tight and confining and not something that I would have wanted to wear on a regular basis. But then eventually I and most of the other women in the play got used to them. And I loved the feeling of getting used to them. I found that my girdle made me feel ladylike, elegant, and dignified in a way I like, and it gave me a spectacular figure in the dresses and suit I wore in the play. After the play, I become interested in wearing vintage and now wear it much of the time and I choose to do so with a girdle and stockings. To me it feels right, and very feminine. But I definitely think it should be a matter of individual choice. However much I love them now, I do breath a sigh of comfortable release when I get undressed at the end of a day.

This is a really interesting discussion and I've enjoyed reading the responses. Personally, I love the vintage look but I don't think I'll be wearing vintage underwear anytime soon. Where I live, it's uncomfortable wearing regular bras and undies in warm weather so this kind of foundation garment would probably kill me. I haven't tried things like spanx but I know some ladies swear by them. Even though the fabric is modern, I'd still find it too hot to wear in the subtropics. Living in a place where clothing covers very little, I have had to resort to a lot of gym work and accepting my imperfect shape. Having said all of that, I do rather fancy a long line bra. Several readers have mentioned posture and I must say that is something I never thought of. Modern women do not sit the way women in the 40s, 50s or 60s did. I can see how these vintage foundation garments would make you sit correctly. Maybe I could try them in winter? Thanks for an interesting and thought provoking post.

If you are wearing vintage and you want to help your garment last as long as possible, a proper foundation garment will help take the strain that aging and worn fabrics usually cannot, no matter how gently one tries to wear them.

Also, one has to consider bust and waist darts and other shaping - just as one cannot wear 40's suit jackets without shoulder pads, one cannot achieve a wasp waist or high pointed bust without similar foundations.

I've got the girdles but am looking for a bra that enhances. I've got plenty (38C)...but I guess I want a bullet bra. I'm tired of having the round, soft silhouette. However, someday when I get married I'll need the flat bra as I'll wear my grandmothers 1925 dress. but for now, I'm looking for the bullet bra--and always telling my nieces to wear proper foundation garments.

Hi everyone, I have been wearing head to toe vintage for about 5 years now, but apart from stockings and suspender belts, vintage underwear has alluded me, manly due to my size, I'm 5 foot with a 24" waist and a Uk 30D bust line, so finding vintage undergarments to fit me can be a challenge. I have tried Ebay and numerous vintage stores and markets to no avail. Does anyone know of any modern company that make vintage underwear in small sizes, without costing a complete fortune (I'm a student). I think I'm going to give up on looking for the genuine article and settle on the next best thing thanks everyone, Gertie your blog is amazing

Wonderful blog!I'm always amazed at the vehement opposition to vintage styled underwear! Is it simply that we have got so used to lycra and laziness? Looking around me that habit certainly hasn't done our shapes any favours. I'm also stunned that anyone could prefer the stuffed sausage effect of something like Spanx, which lets face it are pretty ugly, to the various attractive styles and designs of longline bras, merry widows, cinchers and girdles. I'd much prefer some satin and lace to repellent big fleshtone lycra pants!Now obviously vintage styled undies aren't essential for everyday wear or casual wear and noone is going to twist anyones arm! But if you want the silhouette and look you love (if you love vintage) then you have to get the structure right before you drape a frock on top of it :) It doesn't have to be uncomfortable, not if it fits! Trouble is so many of us try to squeeze into the wrong size, and sometimes so did our grannies for that matter! I'd recommend Rago. They still run a few styles they've used for years. They do black and the quality is good.

I havent started making clothes to wear yet, as I am still in the proccess of altering my slopers to fit perfectly, but I have been designing some of the clothes that I will make to wear and many of the designs have vintage roots. I am even considering someday making a cute 1950's swimsuit with a 'puff' skirt that I saw on the internet.When it comes to foundations, I do find vintage concepts to be more flattering than modern shapes, even under modern clothes. A pointy bra is a no no for me as it would look rediculous on my large breasts but the longline feature is perfect. Also something about modern underwear that I find frustrating is the rise of the knickers. often they reveal too much of the fleshy stretchmarked reality of my stomach, and unfortunately sit below the 'ledge' at the bottom of my stomach. The higher rise (just below or on the bellybutton) is much more flattering and reduces the appearence of my stomach, so despite being berated by a (rather slim) friend for wearing 'enormous granny pants' I will stick to the theory that a little mystery is sexy. I don't think that a girdle is a could idea though, because what is squashed down must come out somewhere and cause more horrific bumps than before. Instead pants of a sturdy fabric that skim over my irregularities are the best for comfortably disguising unwanted bumps under clothes.Grr, my friend has had 2 children and still has a firm stomach, but I grew so fast during puberty that I have never had one insted my skin was literally stretched to its limits, and from the waist down I have a figure like I'm the one who has had kids. We're both 21, wheres the fairness in that?Grumble over, someday I will have the money to pay for a youthful stomach for the first time in my life. ;)

I love wearing foundation garments, but not every day, just a special occasion. I can wear a tighter pencil skirt with a girdle and my naturaly round tummy disappears temporairly disappears (but I'm always happy when she's back)!

What an interesting discussion! I came across this blog while doing a search for retro underwear and foundation garment sewing patterns. I see pattern companies making retro dresses and such, I wish they would make patterns for girdles, bras, longlines, all-in-ones, and so on. It would probably make these undergarments more flattering and comfortable if we could make them ourselves.

Posture and Foundation Garments a Research Paper Done by Cornell Univerity: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Posture_%26_Foundation_GarmentsI found this article very interesting and even though this research article was done a number of years ago it applies very much to today and the postive and health benefits of daily wearing a well fitted girdle has on posture.

If you like to discuss girdles and corsets please go to http://www.voy.com/224381/