So sick of N Korea and the way we deal with their pre-adolescent antics.

Ever since the War ended (well, technically it still hasn't ended) it has been a constant ~10 year cycle of "we're going to build a bomb", "please don't", "fuck you", "we'll give you oil & food", "oh, ok, we'll stop." 10 years later, "we're building a bomb again...".

Just fucking ridiculous, and every time we got nothing and with every cycle they got closer and closer to a bomb. And now they have one. They've played us for half a century. Instead of treating them for what they are, pre-adolescent fucktards that needed their ass beat, we played right into their game. And they won. And based on what is coming out of Washington, they will continue to win.

Our long-term foreign policy sucks, and it has for a long time. It goes beyond just N. Korea.

__________________
"… what is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end."

We just haven't used the right words in convincing them what they are doing is harming their world image. More words are definitely necessary. Preceeded, of course, by some strong condemnation language and some resolution language. Then more words. You can't fix things with violence anymore and doing so would send the wrong message to the children.

__________________"....As far as "rights" are concerned... I look at them this way. I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own." GROG

If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.

Quote:

Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"

3 more missles today. The belligerence is kind of astonishing. Even for Kim. Having Japan go nuclear might "reshuffle the deck" in that theater. The DPRK has always been somewhat of a linchpin in China's hegemony in the region. Or better yet, let's go in, snatch Kim and take him for pictures at Gitmo!!!..LOL

China has many other international economic/political considerations other than N.K.

China has a vested interest in an ongoing international economy that it prefers not to be destabilized by the actions of a desperate nation. If destabilization occurs, there goes the control, such as it is. Not that many tennis shoes are exported to North Korea.

The concept of World Domination through a United Communism is passe', in the light of Survival via Cash..It's difficult to "Viva La Reveloucion'" without it.(circa 1950's)

North Korea is starving, ergo desperate, as we all know. Rhetoric can take even a god such as The Beloved Leader so far. Desperate people take desperate measures. Without support in those conditions, most governments/despots take action independently, as we see unfolding now. The U.N. is unlikely to ride in on a white horse to save the day, so that leaves...whom?

We just haven't used the right words in convincing them what they are doing is harming their world image. More words are definitely necessary. Preceeded, of course, by some strong condemnation language and some resolution language. Then more words. You can't fix things with violence anymore and doing so would send the wrong message to the children.

No kidding. One of the headlines actually read, "UN Says Launch Violates XXXX Resolution and Vows it Will Immediately Draft Another."

Same dance, same song since 1994. Third President. The question really is What can we do. The refugee flow out of NK to China is so high the Chinese put three infantry divisions on the border a year so so ago.

Consider that you have a state that has NO other options but to intimidate and threaten other countries for grain and so on.

Now please consider that this is a Xenophobic country that has a ruling class that is desperate to stay in power and out of touch with reality. Think of Marie Antoinette here... but just to add a little spice to the picture throw in enough chemical and biological weapons, along with a few nukes, that cause havoc in a LOT of the Far East.

The scary part is I have not really been able to find any hesitancy for NK to use this stuff.

The worse case scenario is for the the NK government to order an all out attack against the South as the NK government fails. Look at it as a huge suicide attack that will take everyone down with them.

North Korea is going to fail. The challenge is to let the nation fail, collapse, whatever, WITHOUT destroying South Korea, Japan, parts of China, and Russia. The worse case death toll would literally be in the millions.

Todays news that NK no longer feels bound by the 1953 Truce... is a real ratchet up I think.

With all the new missile launches this week... Anyone want to take bets on how many days it will be before they get tired of shooting at water?

__________________"....As far as "rights" are concerned... I look at them this way. I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own." GROG

If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.

Quote:

Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"

I heard on a local radio station that the moderate military officers in North Korea have been replaced or are in jail and have been replaced by hard liners. I don't know how true that is but if it this could be more alarming then the obvious.

I really believe that NK is in need of more money, fuel and food and is holding the world hostage by throwing stones. However, given the unstable nature of the supreme idiot anything is possible.

I'm reminded of VP Biden's comment the President Obamba will be tested with in 6 months. He may be right.

Keep in mind, not long after the President was sworn in, Kim moved in and snatched two Americans (female) near the Chinese border. They are still in custody and from what I've read, intend to try them for espionage.

If you don't smell ozone, the radiation won't kill you before next week.

Join Date: Oct 2003

Location: sc

Posts: 5,955

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titleist

Keep in mind, not long after the President was sworn in, Kim moved in and snatched two Americans (female) near the Chinese border. They are still in custody and from what I've read, intend to try them for espionage.

Human shields?

__________________
"I don't know whether the world is run by smart men who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Twain

"I agree that his intentions are suspect, and that he likely needs to die...." - SOTB

"Just a lone patriot acting alone at a fulcrum point, ideally in a deniable fashion. A perpetrator of accidents." - Magician

And that was one of the well educated, better off Warsaw Pact 2nd world nations.

The gap between North Korea and South Korea is like the gap between the Dark Ages and frickin' Star Trek.

Doesn't South Korea absorbing North Korea make West Germany absorbing East Germany look like a visit to EuroDisney?

What is a realistic outcome that includes a price of less than a trillion dollars?

Isn't it in everyone but the North Korean people's interest to keep the game of toxic muscial chairs going a bit longer?

I'm all for seeing the end to the North Korean regime, but who's going to pick up the tab for this mess?

Because it's going to be a TARPtastic sized bill.

With South Korean economic output/export needle pegging maximum on the Depression Gauge isn't North Korea's aggression possibly just another very well timed effort to extract lots more free stuff?

I'm sorta kinda of the belief that the biggest fear senior leadership in South Korea/China/Japan/US have in regards to North Korea is a North Korean Post Office package arriving at the DMZ containing the keys to the country and a note that says. "We quit! Good ruck!"

I would not wish to be a young South Korean citizen over the next couple of decades.....it's eventually going to hurt big or bigger.

__________________
"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

And that was one of the well educated, better off Warsaw Pact 2nd world nations.

The gap between North Korea and South Korea is like the gap between the Dark Ages and frickin' Star Trek.

Doesn't South Korea absorbing North Korea make West Germany absorbing East Germany look like a visit to EuroDisney?

What is a realistic outcome that includes a price of less than a trillion dollars?

Isn't it in everyone but the North Korean people's interest to keep the game of toxic muscial chairs going a bit longer?

I'm all for seeing the end to the North Korean regime, but who's going to pick up the tab for this mess?

Because it's going to be a TARPtastic sized bill.

With South Korean economic output/export needle pegging maximum on the Depression Gauge isn't North Korea's aggression possibly just another very well timed effort to extract lots more free stuff?

I'm sorta kinda of the belief that the biggest fear senior leadership in South Korea/China/Japan/US have in regards to North Korea is a North Korean Post Office package arriving at the DMZ containing the keys to the country and a note that says. "We quit! Good ruck!"

I would not wish to be a young South Korean citizen over the next couple of decades.....it's eventually going to hurt big or bigger.

While it would take a few generations of education and proper nutrition for the NK populace to to recover... the financial expenditure would be tremendous.... but in the long and short term it would better than having Seoul leveled.... along with much of the rest of the country.

While it would take a few generations of education and proper nutrition for the NK populace to to recover... the financial expenditure would be tremendous.... but in the long and short term it would better than having Seoul leveled.... along with much of the rest of the country.

Is Seoul REALLY at SERIOUS risk of being leveled?

I know this is a REALLY rough analogy, but wouldn't that be a bit like Tony Soprano trying to whack the local FBI SAIC/office?

Wouldn't the endstate be the same?

Isn't a crude nuclear capability for North Korea a bit like Tony Soprano having some immunity from prosecution?

On one hand, I could see some serious concern about North Korea's leadership stability putting lots of very serious people on notice to intervene if required.

On the other hand, I could see this being a VERY bold/shrewd example from the North Korean standpoint in taking advantage of the economic devastation affecting the related nations to maximize the potential gain for North Korea.

I'm not a regional expert, but could this recent series of events be just another form of unconventional negotiations?

Does North Korea not possess MORE leverage now than what they will likely have in 5 or 10 years when we see the backend of this economic mess?

So doesn't it make sense from their perspective to leverage their ability to throw stone at our temporarily glass houses?

It feels a bit like that scene in Blazing Saddles when the black guy threatens to shoot himself....except less funny.

__________________
"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

While it would take a few generations of education and proper nutrition for the NK populace to to recover... the financial expenditure would be tremendous.... but in the long and short term it would better than having Seoul leveled.... along with much of the rest of the country.

Is Seoul REALLY at SERIOUS risk of being leveled?

I know this is a REALLY rough analogy, but wouldn't that be a bit like Tony Soprano trying to whack the local FBI SAIC/office?

Wouldn't the endstate be the same...total destruction?

Isn't a crude nuclear capability for North Korea a bit like Tony Soprano having some immunity from prosecution?

On one hand, I could see some serious concern about North Korea's leadership stability putting lots of very serious people on notice to intervene if required.

On the other hand, I could see this being a VERY bold/shrewd example from the North Korean standpoint in taking advantage of the economic devastation affecting the related nations to maximize the potential gain for North Korea.

I'm not a regional expert, but could this recent series of events be just another form of unconventional negotiations?

Does North Korea not possess MORE leverage now than what they will likely have in 5 or 10 years when we see the backend of this economic mess?

So doesn't it make sense from their perspective to leverage their ability to throw stone at our temporarily glass houses?

It feels a bit like that scene in Blazing Saddles when the black guy threatens to shoot himself....except less funny.

__________________
"Nobody can get the truth out of me because even I don't know what it is. I keep myself in a constant state of utter confusion."

I know this is a REALLY rough analogy, but wouldn't that be a bit like Tony Soprano trying to whack the local FBI SAIC/office?

Actually closer to the other way around. NK's military is huge, dwarfing SK by a large margin. The safety net is us and our presence there. NK agents have been infiltrating SK's universities for decades, rousing anti-American "occupation" attempting to gain support for US removal from the region.

NK had very little to loose with an invasion of SK and everything to gain.

I don't believe the nukes to be a conventional option for NK, more probable an asymetrical approch (terrorsim, etc..) on the US or any other nation that they precieve as a threat.

China is the wild card, though I suspect they would rather watch the fireworks and reap the benifits of a major economic tax on the waring nations. What exactly would be their gain from interceeding with NK's affairs?

Japan may be our biggest support. They have a massive navy, something that would definatly come into play in the event of raised hostilities.

NK has no viable long term statigy for extended warfare, they would have to make a blitzcrieg push into SK and commendeer their resources. They have no real economy for such an action otherwise, unless supported by someone else (China?).

Never-the-less, NK is not by any means an easy target. There are a lot of factors that make them a very worthy foe.

NK had very little to loose with an invasion of SK and everything to gain.
...
Never-the-less, NK is not by any means an easy target. There are a lot of factors that make them a very worthy foe.

Which is why, IMHO, when Kim decides to fire those nukes, he will do it. NK has taken the initiative in the past, and the Korean war is NOT over. The North has continued, through the years, to try anything is could, short of all out invasion, to get operatives, and insurgents into the south.

Like I said... Kim will get tired of shooting at water VERY soon. You cannot compare him to any rational National leader, as he is not rational. He would rather construct a nuke than feed his own people. He does have "little dick syndrome" however, if given the chance, and a nuke, he will use it. I don't think he believes he has anything to loose. His whole Nation is living in the same technological era as they were during the 50s. Kim is still living the cold war, and he wants to win.

He is a very dangerous individual, in charge of a very dangerous people. Best none of us underestimate his desires...

...and yes Col Flagg, Soul IS in danger of being leveled. If for no other reason than WE helped take it back from them... twice...

He kinda looks like Yoko Ono...

__________________"....As far as "rights" are concerned... I look at them this way. I don't tell you what church to go to, and you don't tell me what kind of firearm I can own." GROG

If gun control laws controlled crime, we wouldn't need cops.

Quote:

Finally, I believe that punishing lawful gun owners by creating new, more onerous laws, and restricting Constitutionally guaranteed rights, when we already don't enforce the tens of thousands of gun laws we have on the books, is like beating your dog because the neighbor's dog shit in your yard.
"The Reaper"