August 25, 2008

Police departments don't enforce immigration laws

Good.

"Despite a nationwide clamor against illegal immigration, only 55 of more than 18,000 police and law enforcement agencies across the country have signed agreements to coordinate with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement." The whole story is here.

I think good because of both. As long as illegals don't commit crimes, I got no problem with them. God knows this city (New York) would be far worse off if it weren't for immigrants, legal and illegal.

I don't want police enforcing immigration laws because 1) it's not good for cities, and 2) it pushes people underground.

If some Muslim Arabs want to bomb New York again, they're going to get caught because someone snitches. And that snitch could very well be an illegal immigrant.

I THINK ITS WONDERFUL THAT COPS DO NOT BOTHER ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ... I KNOW A COUPLE OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT ARE HERE WORKING FOR LESS THEN MINIMUM WAGE JUST TO SAVE UP AND GO BACK TO THEIR COUNTRY...

PLUS IM SURE MANY OF TODAYS NYPD MINORITY COPS HAVE PARENTS THAT CAME HERE ILLEGALLY

So, do you guys believe that "sanctuary cities" are a good thing? Should our cities be letting illegal aliens go from crimes they commit, too? Or, not having them deported when they murder a man and his kids because the man wasn't driving how they liked? Maybe all of your illegals are friggin boy scouts but out here, in California, we've got A LOT and they can be a nuisance, a downright problem. Yes, there are those (and I've worked with them) that are just trying to make a living...but there are a lot of them that are taking advantage of the system and our American Goodwill.

LEO, does your buddy pay taxes like you and I do? Do his kids go to school for free and possibly make it difficult for the English speaking kids to learn because they have to have translators, etc?

Why aren't they forced to speak English in school like those immigrants that you speak of from times past?

Why can they just come in and do as they please? Why isn't there an entrance process......like the immigrants from so many other countries? Why the free pass?

1.) Who in this forum (or anywhere) suggested that illegal immigrants should not be held accountable when they commit crimes in the U.S.? Answer: just you buddy! You are trying to confuse multiple issues. You are substituting emotion and rhetoric for sound analysis. In short, you are not convincing.

2.) I don't have a problem w/ an "entrance process," per se, but it should be limited to checking people for criminal backgrounds and contagious diseases. After that, I say bring us your poor, dispossessed, wretched and all those other folks we used to invite in before politicians, social conservatives and some union types began to use xenophobia--uh...uh, I ain't prejudiced...uh I got me some Mexican friends...DER TAKIN R JOBS!!!--to advance their personal agendas. If coming to the U.S. legally was as complicated in the 19th century as it is right now (for skilled and unskilled immigrants), I might not be here right now. I take that kind of personally.

3.) How do you plan to "force" them to speak Englishe? How 'bout special camps for...oh wait, we tried that already. Didn't go over to well.

4.) Are you actually citing Michelle Malkin or was that a little comic relief?

Look. All I know is that in the rest of the rich world, immigrants are problems. Here in America, we must be doing (or not doing) something right. Because immigrant have, do, and will continue to make this country better.

Immigrants are not the problem.

Absolutely I am for amnesty. If you live here, work, and pay taxes, please stay. If you rob people and get arrested, out you go.

But no, I don't want police out there hunting for people simply because they violated our immigration laws. Let them work. Let them pay taxes. Let them raise their kids. That is what made this country great.

And if you can pay taxes and stay out of trouble for some time, maybe 10 years, I'd grant automatic citizenship and even sent you a "Welcome to America" cake.

Bad people are the problem. Not immigrants, legal or illegal. But if you're bad and you're illegal, it helps that we can simply deport you. I'm all for that. Take the good and get rid of the bad.

It's the raid of factories and the like that I think is both bad and immoral. Almost by definition, worker there are the good people. They're at work!

And yes, I am for "sanctuary cities." I don't want immigrants afraid to call police because someone else is committing a crime or terrorist act. I don't want police worrying about anybody who doesn't commit a crime (excepting being here against our federal immigration laws).

If illegal immigrants commit a crime, deport them. What great leverage! But the truth is the vast majority of immigrants, legal and illegal, and hard working people with good family values.

The English issue? I think it's a non-issue. I live in a neighborhood where some old ladies still only speak Greek. They've only been in this country 40 years. You know what? Who cares?

What matters isn't that the immigrants learn English (though it would be good if they did), it's that their kids do. And I don't know of any cases where people born in the country (which automatically makes them citizens--which perhaps is why we don't have the immigrant problems of other countries) who don't speak English.

And who is Michelle Malkin? I'll find out through Google.

...did she really start the Rachel Ray "terrorist scarf" issue? If so, then she's an idiot.

And even if you think we should keep them out, which I don't, I just don't see how it's possible. It's like saying drugs are bad, so we should prohibit them. Do we give up? No. Do we accept reality and regulate? Yes.

Thanks Peter. Now THAT is sound analysis of the immigration issue. Comparing the immigration "problem" to drug prohibition was an excellent choice. When government attempts to do the impossible you can bet that civil liberties will be trampled and we will be ashamed of ourselves decades down the road. It's sad that we have continued to make this kind of mistake over and over again throughout U.S. history.

First, I never said to KEEP THEM OUT. I said to have a process that gets followed, as opposed to letting 10,000 per day (or however many) in with no checks.

As for our language, Yes, if the old people are here and they don't speak English, fine.....but I was talking about OUR SCHOOLS. Not little old ladies in Little Italy or wherever. So, how do we "force" them (school children) to speak Englishe [sic] in school??? Don't give them translators...a drain on precious resources. I had to learn English through assimilation....you two did too, right?

Dave H, you make it sound like I was running around saying, "KEEL THEM FUGGIN MEXICANNNNNS"...No, that's not what I was saying. What I am saying is what I said in my first paragraph, there should be a process that EVERY immigrant has to follow. We need Mexican labor here, that's for sure. But let's make sure they're paying their taxes.

The "stay out of trouble and stay ten years, then get your papers" sounds good to me....but I'm pretty sure it's already seven years, isn't it?

That's right, if they commit a crime, All felonies, and a lot of misdemeanors, GONE, deported. But with cities like Philly and San Fran, there's no leverage! They WON'T deport them. Oh, you're a murderer, no problem, we'll give you a court appointed attorney and let you stay in the country to waste the tax dollars that you never paid into. GREAT thinking!!!

And on Sanctuary cities and your worry that people will be deported for reporting crime. How often did you ask people for their "papers"? I'd bet never. Because, I'm pretty sure you can't go around asking people to verify their citizenship (or lack of) for no reason. And reporting a crime isn't a reason. So, even without the "Sanctuary Cities" there aren't going to be any mass deportations.

One of the biggest problems the sanctuary cities pose is that they won't give up even murderers. God forbid we hurt their feelings or something.

I'm a big believer that schools should be taught in English only. So we're in agreement there.

I didn't ask people for their papers because I think it's wrong. Also, Baltimore had very few immigrants back in 2000.

But some police officers do ask people here in New York. And this is generally one of the better cities.

After 9/11, NYC asked Arabs to register. Nothing to fear, the city said. All the law abiding Arabs did register. Many, the "illegal" ones, where never seen again. Talk about a waste of good will. I'm sure the immigrants learned real quick their lesson about talking to The Man.

I'm also sure people are more likely to because terrorists educated and unemployed in Cairo than working and patriotic in New York.

PCM, I'm always interested in what you have to say, but I don't quite understand that last sentence. Maybe something got deleted by accident. Or, it could very well be my periodic daftness. Either way, I'm interested to know.

But, at that point, wouldn't it have been their fault? Why weren't they diligent to know when their visa expired and renew or apply for citizenship or whatever?

I get your point though, I would prefer to have more America loving nationalist patriots too, but they should have take the appropriate steps to citizenship or resident status. Simply waiting out your tourist or courier visa and expecting not to be deported is irresponsible and entirely your own fault.

Of course, this is just my opinion and I don't have any real world experience in emigration. My family came from Mexico two or three generations ago, and my other family from Germany about the same.

Peter Moskos is an associate professor in the Department of Law, Police Science, and Criminal Justice Administration at John Jay College of Criminal Justice. He is on the faculty of the City University of New York's Doctoral Programs in Sociology and a Senior Fellow of the Yale Urban Ethnography Project.

Moskos graduated from Princeton (AB) and Harvard (PhD) and was a Baltimore City Police Officer. He has authored three books: Cop in the Hood, In Defense of Flogging, and Greek Americans.

Me in 2000

Me in 2016

Critical Acclaim for Cop in the Hood

Cops like the book, Cop in the Hood:

"Should be made mandatory reading for every recruit in the Balto. City Police Academy. ... I am so proud that you were a Baltimore Police Officer and a good one." —Colonel (ret.) Margaret Patton, Baltimore City Police Department

"I just finished reading the last footnote! Great stuff." —NYPD Lt. Detective (ret.) David Durk

"I have been a cop now for 23 years and your book really captured what it's like to be a street cop. . . . Great book, great insights." —Detective-Commander Joseph Petrocelli

"Moskos strips away hard to decipher cop-speak and sociological mumbo jumbo and presents something easily digestible by the average reader.... Moskos is a veteran of a war [on drugs] he disagrees with. But he has walked the walk, respects the brotherhood and, as far as I’m concerned, still bleeds blue." —Pepper Spray Me

"Truly excellent.... Mandatory reading for all fans of The Wire and recommended for everyone else." —Tyler Cowen

"Ethnographic chutzpah.... Perhaps the best sociological account on what it means to police a modern ghetto.... Tells a great story centered around notions of race, power and social control." —Andrew Papachristos, American Journal of Sociology

"[An] objective, incisive and intelligent account of police work. Moskos's graphic descriptions of the drug culture... are the most detailed and analytical to be found anywhere. —Arnold Ages, Jewish Post & Opinion

It could have profound consequences.... In Defense of Flogging forces the reader to confront issues surrounding incarceration that most Americans would prefer not to think about. —Mansfield Frazier, The Daily Beast

“Flogging” is intriguing, even in — or because of — its shocking premise. As a case against prisons, Mr. Moskos' is airtight. —Washington Times

Compelling… Although his outrageous idea may conjure up unsavory reminders of U.S. slavery, by the end of “In Defense of Flogging,” Moskos might just have you convinced. —Salon

One of the very few public-policy books I've encountered that goes past wringing its hands over a societal problem.... Moskos's sharp little volume has a potential audience far beyond the experts. —Rich Fisher, Public Radio Tusla

A very important work... provocative, timely, and well-argued. I agree with you completely that our criminal justice system is out of control.... On one hand, the problems seem intractable. On the other hand, we're doomed if we don't do something about it. —(Former) CIA Agent John Kiriakou

It was, in truth, a book that I could not put down. I read it in two sittings (my butt was hurting after the first!)... You did well. —Gary Alan Fine, John Evans Professor of Sociology, Northwestern University.