I’m happy that WNYMedia.net was at the forefront of discussing this project in a way that cut through the bullshit and the lies and the demagoguery. We didn’t report the news – we hosted the public discussion and commentary in a way that no other local media was able to accomplish. We were reasonable when necessary, snarky when not. We were hopeful, skeptical, informed, cynical, interested, and offered the community a forum to debate the whole thing.

Wow, what an overwhelming flurry of self congratulations! But wait a minutre. Seems to me you guys sided with the big business/politician class much more than you did the citizens of Western New York. Populists you ain’t. If this fiasco had ever gone to a vote it would have lost 4 to 1.

If we don’t congratulate ourselves, we’d disappoint the audience. We are incessant self back-patters. We’re also pretty good at predicting/summarizing failure. You might remember this guy and this story.

Also, I sided with “cool place for people to hang out and where tourists can buy shit”. As opposed to empty parking lots and a chill wind of failure. What we’ll now get is park space and a big hole in the ground. Progress? Sure.

Also, also…the next person that proposes an Ikea should be kicked in the crotchal region. The square footage required for an Ikea and associated parking is HUGE (~500,000SF, Bass Pro was proposed at ~200,000SF with parking) and our regional economic demographics don’t mesh with their standards. If there weren’t already two stores in the Toronto region (which would’ve made us mildly attractive), they told us they might have considered opening a store in Clarence. We’ve called and asked IKEA numerous times about this, Buffalo has never been, is not currently, nor do they envision ever being a location for an Ikea. They are not interested in urban locations unless the benefit is overwhelming, like in NYC. We need to give up the dream, seriously. It’s the white whale for Buffalonians who love cheap furniture but hate crossing the border to buy it.

There’s a difference between wanting an Ikea to be here – knowing it would fit well given the value-consciousness of Buffalonians and at least some residents’ desire for better design – and thinking that it would actually happen. Apart from the prospect of a significant financial incentive to the company, the economic realities of the immediate customer base and the workforce would make it unlikely. That said, a kick in the junk for daring to want (or conceive of incentivizing) them here is essentially a suggestion that we shouldn’t even hope for great things here. We should. But we should be prepared to make them happen and stop those who would impede them, rather than just daydreaming for six or more years.

That said, a kick in the junk for daring to want (or conceive of incentivizing) them here is essentially a suggestion that we shouldn’t even hope for great things here.

I know that you’ve only recently moved back to Buffalo, so you’re not as tuned into how we’ve been hearing disaffected hipsters and DINKs in the Elmwood Village tell us for years how Ikea should and would be here if we only asked or dared to dream bigger than a “bait shop”. It’s grown increasingly tedious and the ignorance around why Ikea is a bad fit for the waterfront illustrates a deliberate disdain for basic economic development and retail methodology as well as commercial real estate strategy. Would I like an Ikea somewhere in the region? Yes. We have three of them, right up in Canada. A 500,000 SF development with required parking and loading docks would span the entirety of the Canalside development area. From the 190 to the front door of HSBC Arena. Now, THAT is big box development. It would be filled with cheap, disposable furniture from one of the least environmentally friendly corporations in the world. Ironic how those who clamor for “sensitive” development and sustainable design seem to love this horrible company. The power of cool Swedish names for a side table, eh?

So, forgive us if I’m overly dismissive or crude on this particular topic. I’ve just been hearing it ever since we started this site six years ago.

the clamoring for ikea (even after IKEA has basically said “stop telling us to come there, we’re not interested”) is proof that a certain segment of opposition to bass pro was really only about classless, suburban, palin-loving rednecks coming into our city and desecrating our vibrant canal district with their red-state rubbish. site plan? store configuration? over saturation of furniture retail market? too many ikeas nearby? urban planning? psssh i only care about image, bitch.

Why don’t we just seize IKEA and force it to relocate to Canalside? Last century, the Fenians tried to seize all of Canada. Maybe they had the right idea. After all, look how badly the Canucks have screwed up Toronto,

@Brian: Please pardon us for not falling into a drooling stupor over every idiotic scam the local politico-business bozos shovel out. We will try to be better in the future. Can you get us some bibs? BTW, where do you buy your toadie outfits?

I guess I won’t be buying them at Bass Pro. And to your first point, what makes you think the “citizens of Western New York” didn’t want a Bass Pro? Time to leave whatever sheltered life you lead, and talk to someone outside of your echo chamber. As Chris says, I’m pretty most of Western New York is in the “just build the fucking thing already” camp of every development project: Bass Pro, Canalside, Peace Bridge, etc. Don’t confuse these polarized intertubes postings with the real world. As far as I could tell, the politicians you hate split on the issue (Brown/Collins on one side, Common Council on the other), and the insulated activists lined up against the “big business” types (do we even have any of those in Buffalo?). Where the “citizens of WNY” are in any of that mix I have no idea.

@Brian: Why don’t we have Steve Pigeon run a poll to see if people want a Bass Pro? Or Maybe Kevin Gaughn could circulate petitions to downsize Bass Pro. Maybe Lenihan could have all his unemployed friends study the issue on a grant from the UB Foundation?

Come now Chris and Alan! Congrats for what? For years you guys were boosters for this development. You attacked Alt press and me when I called the Bass Pro deal a fraud from day one. You guys even published a BS economic study on the positive impact of Bass Pro on local economies unlike the the recent study by Kevin Connor and friends which put a hole the Bass Pro fantasy. You guys are pretty late to the party.
The last couple years it was clear the deal was dead. Now Levy and friends are pointing their fingers at members of the Buffalo community that asked questions. But a more important question is what great deal does Levy, Qunin, Rich and friends has in story for us next?
A white elephant museum for stupid economic development ideas. First floor the Buffalo exhibit.

p.s. Altpress published critical ten articles on Bass Pro from Feb 2004 to Dec. 2005 they can be found at Alt pressonline.com search Bass pro.

@Joe: You keep talking like this we will shut down Alt Press. Why can’t you be more positive, optimistic and giggly cheerleaderish about the projects that our local cognoscenti are dishing out to us nosepickers?

1) I realize that there is a reflexive fiefdom-like tendency around here to hate on things that are backed by groups one doesn’t like or respect. Hipsters and dinks may be wrong about a lot of things, but broad-based support from those groups and others shouldn’t be frowned upon – it should be welcomed. Remember, having people join together to support things is the goal here.

2) The furniture is cheap, but not disposable. We have a bunch of their stuff and have loved it for years. They make better products than many, many other companies we’ve bought stuff from over the years, and have certain sections where their products (kitchen in particular) are actually considered to be awesome values for the price on design and quality. Environmental concerns? This area is miserably behind the times in all things environmental, and given the state of manufacturing in China now, I can’t fathom that whatever Ikea is doing is any worse than its peers, only more heavily reported.

3) You’re right that Ikea has absolutely no need to be by the waterfront. It mightn’t even fit, and in our experience doesn’t tend to build within malls – it becomes a mini-mall in and of itself. And it is no better suited as a tenant for this particular project than a Costco (or other reseller of common products), except that it would fill a need that the City has in spades – affordable furniture and home products.

No one wants to have to drive into Canada to buy furniture. It’s not easy; I know because we’ve done it. Also, the new ‘if it’s in Canada already, it doesn’t need to come here’ mentality may represent the shallowest pool of thought I’ve heard around WNY in years. I’m no fan of Tim Horton’s, but it is merely one completely easy and lame example of how a commodity-class business with mediocre products has become indispensable locally to tens of thousands of people on a daily basis. Let’s close all of them up in WNY because you can easily find them across the border, and there are plenty of places to get better coffee and donuts. I bet people here would be thrilled, and that some awesome local entrepreneur would create something better to fill the gap immediately. Right? Right?

For what its worth, the waterfront is a nice local destination now with the reconstructed commercial slip, veterans park, Erie Basin Marina and HSBC Arena. The goal of Canalside should be a nice place for people to stay for a few more hours (tourists and local day-trippers), and retail and restaurants fits that bill.

The problem now is we are still is a very deep recession with retailers all across the country pulling back on new builds and buying less for existing stores, This is the worst possible time to try and create a new retail based attraction. It didn’t take a genius to determine that Bass Pro would be cutting bait on this one regardless of whatever happened on the local front. Bass Pro is privately owned, so sales data is unavailable. However, publicly owned retailers have been posting not-so-good to poor numbers for some time now, and there is no reason to believe it will be getting better soon.

The original stimulus program worked: it kept the country from falling into a depression, the auto industry was rescued and now its posting profits, and the country was given a chance to rebound. Unfortunately the economy is just sputtering along, and with it goes a Canalside based on a destination retail establishment. In other words, I am not optimistic that we will see any destination retailer announce a Canalside location anytime soon.

It’s actually not the worst possible time to try and create a retail based attraction. A year ago would have been worse. And the year before that even worse. And, frankly, 2005 and 2006 and 2007 were all terrible years to start retail destinations as many were started only to implode shortly after launch with the great recession.

Frankly, it makes more sense to try to launch a retail destination now than any time in the past 5 years. Of course, it would be marginally harder to finance as banks are balance sheet constrained – but that’s not an issue since most of the financing is coming from taxpayers. So while it sounds all informed and glib to say – this is the worst possible time to try to do X – usually when bureaucrats are saying that, it means it’s a damn good time to do X.

I can’t believe people are clamoring for an Ikea. Horrific, horrific company. If you want to bring one in, there are a few vacant ex-malls that could handle it. Don’t stick it in what will be the most desirable real estate downtown…

I’m putting out a challenge to those who claim there’s something horrific about Ikea. Here are two pages summarizing the company’s environmental credentials and the chief criticisms levied at it by meatheads, namely that it is (a) a successful business, (b) consequently generates traffic and profits, and (c) takes the name of Danish cities in vain. Unless someone can provide evidence that it is more of a negative influence than, say, Walmart (of which we have many locally), seriously, STFU already.* Thanks.

Horrific: Have you ever BEEN in one? It’s a nightmare. You can’t just go to the department you want, you have to follow the path. You can maybe sneak thru a side somewhere, but it’s a nightmare. It’s hundreds of thousands of sq ft of junk surrounded by an even larger useless parking area.

And the absolute shit they peddle as furniture? GARBAGE.

Ikea sucks balls, and I’m not even touching the environmental nonsense.