Harbaugh, Carroll and the two-point conversion attempt

There are already 79 comments on the Hotline post about Harbaugh going for two with a 48-21 lead. I’ve also received a bunch of email about it. And Harbaugh was asked about it again today at the Big Game press conference.

It’s the play that won’t go away — even ESPN’s on Jimmy H’s case (as this Merc story explains).

So here are my thoughts:

No. 1: Was Harbaugh trying to “stick it” to Carroll?

Absolutely.

First, he said it felt like the right thing to do because the Cardinal was coming off the ball so well — one of the all-time lame explanations for anything.

Then he said it was because of the time-and-score — as if the difference between a 29-pt lead and a 28-pt lead meant anything.

Both are four-touchdown margins, and guess what: There were six-something minutes left and USC wasn’t scoring four touchdowns and EVERYONE IN THE COLISEUM KNEW IT.

Especially Harbaugh and Carroll.

No. 2: Was it a poor display of sportsmanship?

Absolutely.

No. 3: Does Harbaugh care what anybody thinks?

No chance. None. Zero.

No. 4: Was it wrong?

Not necessarily.

If you think Carroll has never stuck it to his victims, you’re living in dreamland. He just does it far more discreetly than Harbaugh, a result of the difference in their personalities.

Carroll’s version could go something like this:

USC’s up by 30 with five minutes left. The opponent has its No. 2 defense in the game, and USC runs a toss sweep with its No. 1 tailback running behind its No. 1 offensive line.

The opponent has zero chance to stop it, Carroll knows it, and yet the Trojans run it anyhow — instead of something between the tackles with their backups in the game.

Or Carroll’s version could go something like this:

The Trojans are up 30 with eight minutes left. They have the ball on the opponent’s 38, and they’re throwing on first down.

That happened: Booty to McFoy, for 16 yards, on Nov. 5, 2005 … against Stanford.

No. 5: Will Harbaugh pay for the decision?

If you’re a Stanford fan and you believe in karma, or cosmic justice, you should be worried.

Jon Wilner

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Stanford is NOT the “ivy league” of the west. Stanford is a university that bootstrapped its way from the ground up through innovation in science and technology. It’s the exact opposite of stuffy east coast old money.

If you recall, this was a team that went 1-11 just 3 years ago. But, when everyone else in the pac-10 was looking for the next great spread/option qb, Harbaugh was going against the grain — We’re gonna ram the ball down your throats, we’re gonna put 7 on the line, we’re gonna run Power-O and we’re gonna play-action and toss the long ball. In other words, Stanford has once again found success through innovation, despite a comparative lack of raw talent. Harbaugh is a great ambassador for the university and represents exactly the spirit that made Stanford great in the first place.

Go CARD!!!

Frank

“Harbaugh is a great ambassador for the university and represents exactly the spirit that made Stanford great in the first place. ”

Are you sure you didn’t mean to write “spirits,” considering how much Harbaugh likes to drink and get behind the wheel?

milo

Alex: “Stanford is NOT the “ivy league” of the west. Stanford is a university that bootstrapped its way from the ground up through innovation in science and technology. It’s the exact opposite of stuffy east coast old money.”

Man, what are you robber barons smoking down there? You guys are full of it.

Tyler

If I turned the game off after the “pick 6″ put Stanford up 42-21, do the extra 13 points Stanford even count? Or matter?

Mister Pie

Uhhh nice try Jungle Jim at impostering to be a Cal fan.

FarmSceptic

If jungle jim is an imposter, he does more credit to cal than the nonsense most of you ilk post. He took the words right out of my mouth. This is football, not ballroom dancing. We were playing usc, not eastern washington. In the immortal words of milo (who doesn’t truly understand their meaning) MAN UP!

Ranger John

I can not believe all these posts (I ain’t reading) just a note from the past:
Cal goes for two very late in the game vs SJS already ahead 48 to can’t remember. Keith Gilbertson calls time out, inserts the starting qb as (john Ralston (Hall of Fame coach) watches, as does injured Jeff Garcia.

4 weeks later Cal didn’t move that much up from their 18th or so spot in the polls and Gilbertson is out! What goes around comes around. Coaches (and players) are like elephants….they never forget.

Stanford vs SC was a wipe out but offensively SC could have scored quickly. It wasn’t at all like the Cal vs SJS game.

Blackjoy

It’s amazing to see how easily people can be programmed by the media. A few sports writers post that Harbaugh is trying to “stick it” to Carroll and people believe it. It doesn’t matter what Harbaugh actually says, it doesn’t matter how many times he repeats himself, the media tells you what to think and you believe it….facts be damned.

This is a message to those defending Harbaugh and those attacking him:

Harbaugh was not trying to “stick it” to Carroll.

Go to ESPN and look at the play-by-play. Stanford runs six running plays and gains sixty-five yards. That’s an average of over ten yards a carry. Stanford was blasting the USC D-line off the ball. Harbaugh saw this and his football instinct told him that a two-point conversion attempt running the ball would be free money. In fact, he was so sure he’d get the points, he ran it with the back-up running back. He nearly got it. In fact, I’d be willing to bet a replay shows the ball broke the plane. Had Toby run the ball, we would have gotten the conversion. Had Harbaugh been seriously trying to make a point, he would have handed the ball off to Toby. Had Harbaugh had any interest in a personal vendetta, he would have left Luck in to finish the game.

I realize that this truth is exceedingly hard for people to accept. Many people who follow sports don’t really understand them. Many readers here, will not be able to see what was going on in the game and understand what that should say to a coach.

It’s so much more interesting for people to turn this into something petty and emotionally complicated. Perhaps it makes people feel better about themselves. God knows the media has no qualms about turning this into something it’s not. No doubt they’ll dredge this up next year and every year there after. The idea of Harbaugh and Carroll “hating” each other on some deeply personal level is what sells advertising, but it’s a lie. It’s a lie generated by Wilner and his ilk to feed to you, the readers. It’s media manipulation to keep people reading about it and to sell advertising.

Oh, I’m sure the media (Wilner) has convinced themselves that this was personal and nothing will change their minds. But as individual readers, do yourself a favor and think for yourselves.

If Harbaugh is guilty of anything, it’s of not seeing the bigger picture. I doubt he took the time to consider the media implications of doing his job at that point…you know…scoring points. But he himself said that if he had known the final score he would have not gone for two. Why would he say that if it were not true? Does Jim Harbaugh seem like someone who is going to lie about something like that? Do people think he would shy away from acknowledging such a personal grudge if he indeed had it?

Harbaugh was not trying to “stick it” to Carroll and Wilner’s insistence that he was shows his lack of insight on the subject. What about yours?

cac90

This entire line of discussion is a real shame. Why, because it has totally overshadowed one of the funniest LSJUMB halftime shows of all time. I post this for your reading pleasure. Oh yeah, almost forgot, eat it $C.

GOOOOOOOOOOOD MORNING, USC! Fresh from some really sweet parties over at UCLA, it’s The One The Only The Truly Incomparable Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band!

We all know that Stanford gets a lot of credit for producing countless successful entrepreneurs, including the founders of Google, HP, Charles Schwab, and more others than you can shake a tree at. But did you know that USC also has successful alumni? It’s true! In 1995, the founder of Girls Gone Wild graduated from USC with degrees in Business Administration and Entrepreneurship. That’s right: Girls Gone Wild founder Joe Francis is a full-blown, hardcore Trojan.

Formation: USC->GGW Song: “I Wish”

USC Diploma
A lot of people criticize business administration degrees as meaningless pieces of paper that don’t require skills to earn, but tell that to Joe Francis, who overcame childhood adversity and learned how to make millions of dollars every year in the previously unexploited dirty old man market. Which just goes to show you: give a Trojan a break, and miracles can happen.

Formation: BA -> B$ Song: “Short Skirt/Long Jacket” by Cake

Life of Crime
That said, USC can’t take all the credit for the successes of its students. After all, it takes a special kind of man to be wanted for sexual harassment, drug trafficking, tax evasion, prostitution, child abuse, and disruptive flatulence, but that’s just the kind of captain of industry Joe Francis is.

Formation: Bar of soap Song: “Sample in a Jar” by Phish

Girls Gone Mild?
In fact, we were so inspired by Joe Francis’s Trojan-driven spirit that we decided to start our own video series: “GIRLS GONE MILD.” But it’s harder to make videos than it looks—we’ve been filming literally all week, and no matter how many free hats we offer, you USC girls just won’t let us film you studying.

Formation: WILD -> MILD Song: “Drunken Lullabies” by Flogging Molly

Never Forget
Since we can’t get any footage, we’ll just sell the next best thing: 2007’s Stanford-USC football game, for only $24 and 23 cents. It might not have as much bare skin, but you’ll feel just as much despair after finishing.

Formation: 24-23 –> HAHA Song: “All Right Now”

Thanks, USC, you’ve been great. Come up to Stanford Stadium next year when the Band holds open auditions for Equus. We think Tommy Trojan and Traveler would be perfect for the leads. You’ve been watching The One The Only The Truly Incomparable Leland Stanford Junior University Marching Band!

lesliemedford

cac90,
Fantastic. I love the Incomparables…might have been one myself. Might even have played the Star-Spangled Banner solo trumpet myself. And that’s a GREAT halftime show. Thanks for sharing because I wouldn’t have seen it otherwise. Awesome is all. Stanford clobbered ‘em from all angles! Priceless.

Jungle Jim

U$C spoiled child crybabies and bandwagon sympathizers are crying for mercy from Big Bad Stanford University — the bullies of the PAC-10?

I can’t believe people feel sorry for those proven cheaters. A school of shallow, superficial, dumb, entitled richkid jocks, and their buttkissers begging for empathy on the football field from Stanford after an epic beatdown at home??

“This is Division I football!!! This is the PAC-10!!! Stanford — too hardcore?? Go play intramurals, brother…. go play intramurals..”

Frank

Blackjoy, you are either very naive or a complete moron. Of course Harbaugh was trying to stick it to Carroll. No other reason to do that right there. The only other explanation is that Jim was drunk, which considering his history, is quite possible.

Tyler

@Jungle Jim: Thank you for your stereotyping of the USC student population, but I fail to see what that has to do with a football game. Thanks for the hate, though. It only reinforces USC’s prominant position in the College Football world that so many people pile on when USC loses.

And for the record, not all ‘SC fans are blind homers. Many of us see the cracks in the armor that Pete Carroll refuses to admit are there.

Salem-Don

USC has a lot of hubris that must be addressed.

Blackjoy

Frank, do you understand the substantive difference between trying to “stick it” to Pete Carroll and trying to stick it to USC? If not, you’re either naive or a moron.

Zoo

I do think it’s odd that in all this no one mentions how Harbaugh ran the 2-pointer with his back-up RB, and that on the last possession Stanford had all reserves in. Plus that the Card didn’t throw a single pass that I can recall after the Sherman score. Clearly he was trying to run up the score, by calling only running plays and putting Tavita “scoring machine” Pritchard in the game…

RealSpartan

@51 Alex:
Classic perception of many Stanford alums that they are following the Horatio Alger mythology of the scrappy self-made man with only their bootstraps

That $250,000 education isn’t a bootstrap, its an elevator. Self-delusion must run deep on that campus.

To use a baseball analogy:
You are born on 3rd base and think you’ve hit a triple.

Clown

TD Drench

RealSpartan, obviously Alex isn’t the only clown around here. This blog is full of dummies who somehow went to Stanford. Reading their rationalizations of the 2 pt conversion is high comedy.

milo

Stanfurd: We Hubris!

Bob Bowlsby!

Ranger John

Real Spartan, \
Nice job with the baseball analogy! See you at the Spartan Stadium tailgate…the really BIG Game.

Lefty

Of course Harbaugh was trying to hang 50 on USC.

This was a message – a message that the tables had turned since the almost clockwork beatdowns USC has administered over the years. A message not just for the Trojans and their fans but for the NCAA as a whole.

I”m ok with that. Not pleased but ok with it. If this had been against the Cougars in Pullman or the Sun Devils in Tempe, heck, even the Beavers in Corvallis I’d be displeased. But please don’t ask me to feel sympathy or pity for Pete Carroll’s Trojans.

If you have to ask what’s the difference than you haven’t paid attention for the last 10 years.

And come on SJ and Cal fans – you had the chance to administer that same message and whiffed badly but you KNOW you’d have been ecstatic if it had been Tomey or Tedford administering a beatdown to USC earlier this year.

SpartyNix

Only difference is Tomey and Tedford aren’t drunks and don’t pose a danger to their respective communities. Harbaugh is great as a coach but poorly represents your institution. Total d-bag.

Darius

@RealSpartan [#67], perception is perceived by the perceiver, transcribed into her mind as understanding and morphed into meaning, created and recreated into truths and mutilated into what is right and what is wrong and convolved into making more meaning and more truths and many more people wrong for not perceiving what she perceived.

this blog catalogs one man’s perception and his attempt to understand it, which he morphed into making it mean that ‘Stanford was wrong in going for a two-point conversion’ and by posting the blog he tried to enroll us all in the ‘truth’ of his perception that ‘Stanford was wrong.’

much in the same vein, your perception of ‘many’ Stanford students is only that. it is not truth, it doesn’t mean anything, and it isn’t right or wrong. so there’s no need for you to try and make anyone else wrong for their perceptions in order to validate yourself. but if you must, please do share more of your perceptions, I like to be entertained.

Mood Indigo

Of course, it was sticking it to USC and I loved it. That’ll get the attention of the East Coast press.

I wish there was a way to stick to the Bay Area sports reporters and sports writers who shamelessly shill for Kal.