Yes, those shells are hot as hell. While in basic training a member of my platoon, who was a lefty, had a shell fly out, hit him in the cheek, and then fall into his chinstrap. Left a chevron looking scar on his jawline. It was only after that that someone thought to provide him with a brass deflector.

Philbb:Yes, those shells are hot as hell. While in basic training a member of my platoon, who was a lefty, had a shell fly out, hit him in the cheek, and then fall into his chinstrap. Left a chevron looking scar on his jawline. It was only after that that someone thought to provide him with a brass deflector.

So you say "brass", however there's another TFD that suggests that military shells are steel. Which is it?

ski9600:Philbb: Yes, those shells are hot as hell. While in basic training a member of my platoon, who was a lefty, had a shell fly out, hit him in the cheek, and then fall into his chinstrap. Left a chevron looking scar on his jawline. It was only after that that someone thought to provide him with a brass deflector.

So you say "brass", however there's another TFD that suggests that military shells are steel. Which is it?

I always figured brass was one of those older pieces of slang that just has stayed around through the years.

1. Yes, bad form. Horrible form.1a) As mentioned upthread, she didn't make it 1/3 the way through that mag.2. REALLY? Like an angry God? Well...ok, to each their own, but remember this: After you're done injecting your man goo into her shame cave, you have to *talk* to her.

ski9600:Philbb: Yes, those shells are hot as hell. While in basic training a member of my platoon, who was a lefty, had a shell fly out, hit him in the cheek, and then fall into his chinstrap. Left a chevron looking scar on his jawline. It was only after that that someone thought to provide him with a brass deflector.

So you say "brass", however there's another TFD that suggests that military shells are steel. Which is it?

To be honest I'm not really sure. I went through basic training thirty something years ago. Back then our shells were always referred to as brass and sure looked like brass to me. That doesn't necessarily mean that they were actually brass. It also doesn't mean that the composition of the shell casings hasn't changed since then.

Brass is used because it can be reloaded almost infinitely which saves lots of money. Some modern rifle rounds use steel, however, as it's a little cheaper. Not sure how well it reloads in the long run.

US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

violentsalvation:US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

GAT_00:violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

I see aluminum shell casings at the range sometimes. You raise a good question.

GAT_00:violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

violentsalvation:GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

I see aluminum shell casings at the range sometimes. You raise a good question.

There's got to be a reason for it. If I had to bet, it would be some combination of cost and durability under firing pressure. I don't know how much pressure different metals can sustain off the top of my head.

Lsherm:GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

Ah, so it is the obvious. Cheap ammo is therefore aluminum, which would explain why the military wouldn't use it.

GAT_00:Lsherm: GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

Ah, so it is the obvious. Cheap ammo is therefore aluminum, which would explain why the military wouldn't use it.

No, I think you are right about the firing pressure, at least for the rifle ammo.

GAT_00:Lsherm: GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

Ah, so it is the obvious. Cheap ammo is therefore aluminum, which would explain why the military wouldn't use it.

violentsalvation:GAT_00: Lsherm: GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

Ah, so it is the obvious. Cheap ammo is therefore aluminum, which would explain why the military wouldn't use it.

No, I think you are right about the firing pressure, at least for the rifle ammo.

I don't recall you ever saying I was right about anything concerning guns before. I ought to mark this down for posterity or something.

I'm honestly just speculating on all of this. I don't know specifics, but I've got a decent general idea on firing pressures. Obviously, a 9 mm designed to only go a couple hundred yards needs less firing force than something like a .303 for a long-range rifle.

dramboxf:dahmers love zombie: Crap form with both hands. Would hit like fist of an angry god.

1. Yes, bad form. Horrible form.1a) As mentioned upthread, she didn't make it 1/3 the way through that mag.2. REALLY? Like an angry God? Well...ok, to each their own, but remember this: After you're done injecting your man goo into her shame cave, you have to *talk* to her.

/Good luck with that

She clearly made it all the way through the mag (or it malfunctioned) - the slide locked back.

GAT_00:violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Aluminum has an extremely large liquid range, low melting point, and is highly flammable and reactive in comparison to other common metals. Get moar scienced, libbo-tardi-nut-bag-sack.

Not sure about aluminum casings, but I can tell you one reason the military doesn't use steel casings is because they're a lot dirtier than brass. You have to clean the fark out of the barrel every few hundred rounds, plus steel casings smell like cat piss.

Lsherm:GAT_00: Lsherm: GAT_00: violentsalvation: US military still uses brass, as far as I know. In fact I have a gun magazine around here somewhere that has an article about an ammunition manufacturer that buys and reloads once used brass from the DOD. I think at time we have used steel but only during shortages of copper. The high end hunting and competition ammo you see is most likely nickel plated brass. A lot of the Russian ammo is steel but it is coated with some varnish so it doesn't rust away.

I'm surprised something cheap like aluminum isn't used. Maybe doesn't stand up as well as brass under high temps and pressures that happen for that split second when the weapon fires.

Most aluminum casings are marked NR for "non-reloadable" because it deforms so much during firing. In addition, the primer pocket is too easily damaged and there's a very high possibility of the casing splitting if you reuse them.

Ah, so it is the obvious. Cheap ammo is therefore aluminum, which would explain why the military wouldn't use it.

The military wants even more expensive casings. Various theories on why the military won't use aluminum casings abound, but the most entertaining one I've heard so far is that it might cause a thermite reaction in a full auto weapon. I suspect it's because aluminum is generally more brittle than brass, so brass performs better across a wider range of temperatures.

Just guessing, but isn't durability an issue? Military ammo can get knocked around a lot before it is used, and you don't want to deal with jammed weapons because the aluminum ammo got bent and dinged beforehand.

Also might have to consider salt damage/corrosion near ocean water or dissimilar metal corrosion between clips holding the ammo or between the casing and the slug if it is stored for long periods of time. This could lead to casings that disintegrate when you try to use them.

For example, there is a common misconception among architects that aluminum's corrosion resistance is similar to that of stainless steel. This is incorrect. In locations that are exposed to chlorides (coastal or deicing salt), the corrosion rate of aluminum is typically 10 to 100 times that of stainless steel. The white to grayish white color of aluminum corrosion product may not bring attention to the problem (as the rusting red of steel does), until permanent aesthetic or structural damage has been done. This lack of knowledge makes aluminum a common replacement for stainless steel when construction costs must be reduced. Figures 4 and 5 show severe aluminum corrosion in a deicing salt laden environment and provide a significant contrast to Figure 2.

dramboxf:dahmers love zombie: Crap form with both hands. Would hit like fist of an angry god.

1. Yes, bad form. Horrible form.1a) As mentioned upthread, she didn't make it 1/3 the way through that mag.2. REALLY? Like an angry God? Well...ok, to each their own, but remember this: After you're done injecting your man goo into her shame cave, you have to *talk* to her.

She seemed to empty the magazine, but that wasn't 33 rounds fired. They just give her the dregs of the box? Also, in addition to bad form with her grip, it looked like she still had her finger on the trigger while she was dancing around trying to dislodge the shell...

On look at the tats on her back and you know she doesn't often make good decisions.

Philbb:Yes, those shells are hot as hell. While in basic training a member of my platoon, who was a lefty, had a shell fly out, hit him in the cheek, and then fall into his chinstrap. Left a chevron looking scar on his jawline. It was only after that that someone thought to provide him with a brass deflector.

Lefty here. When my grandfather was teaching me on his .22 tube fed repeater I had casings bounce off my right arm and fly right back in the action at least 5 times over 4 years. They weren't that hot (or just didn't contact me long enough to burn) but it's always disconcerting when a weapon doesn't do exactly what you are used to. Or at least it was when I was 14, hasn't happened since I learned to keep my right arm down.

GAT_00:I'm honestly just speculating on all of this. I don't know specifics, but I've got a decent general idea on firing pressures. Obviously, a 9 mm designed to only go a couple hundred yards needs less firing force than something like a .303 for a long-range rifle.

The thing to remember is that the gun is only an interface between the human and the ammunition. As such there are alot of opposing design choices to make for the balance of ergonomics, safety, accuracy and reliability customers want.Aglock has a lower chamber pressure but it can't afford any extra metal weight. It also has to be reliable, which lead designers to leave alot of slack around the chamber.The result was a notorious series of accidents where the back of the case would rupture and blow the gun apart.

The safety margin that might be built into a target or combat pistol simply wont exist in many daily carry handguns.One is made to hammer out three hundred rounds in a session, the other is only made to fire a few times a year.

dramboxf:dahmers love zombie: Crap form with both hands. Would hit like fist of an angry god.

1. Yes, bad form. Horrible form.1a) As mentioned upthread, she didn't make it 1/3 the way through that mag.2. REALLY? Like an angry God? Well...ok, to each their own, but remember this: After you're done injecting your man goo into her shame cave, you have to *talk* to her.

I have a suggestion. Now, I'm not sure how likely this is to have happen, but could be worth looking into.When applying for a gun license, one of the questions should be. 'Do you plan on recording yourself with your weapon because you think it would be cool to show the world how the 2nd amendment is highly important, or to show how you are awesome when it comes to handling fireamrs?'

If the answer is yes, they should be laughed at and then denied.Of course, this suggestion is only due to the number of gun owners who feel the need record themselves and inevitably do nothing but show the world how absolutly stupid they are and that they infact do not need to own anything other then a water gun