Aha, found the "trolling" post. I didn't say any such thing. Just my usual smartass comments. Vague references to Pauly Shore movies might not be the greatest idea. I'll give you that.

"Then you can work on your spelling. It's not muscle, bone, or tendon. The problem is much higher."

We all form our perceptions about people based upon how they act and/or treat others. I'm not sure how you think the above quote makes you out to be a classy guy or one that would be taken seriously in another discussion. Perhaps the reason you come here is just to be make your "typical smartass comments". There are a number of threads where you can work your magic at this and I typically just avoid those. To each their own.

However if that is the case don't get your feelings hurt when you aren't taken seriously by those interested in meaningful discussions with other runners.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

xor

posted: 7/12/2012 at 9:10 AMmodified: 7/12/2012 at 9:12 AM

Come on guys.

1. Cheevers, spaniel did not call you "a name". Well, at first, when you said so. Then later he did, so... there.

2. Spaniel, Cheevers did not accuse that poster of being a troll. It wasn't a nicey nice response, so fair enough, but he didn't call her a troll.

Both of you should consider lightening up. History says that neither of you will.

This doesn't matter except that this is a thread that hinges on semantics, legalities, and words, and such. Practice what you preach from your pulpits.

And, sure, go ahead and tell me (again, in one of your cases) that I never add value. At least I know my high from my mighty.

>> We all form our perceptions about people based upon how they act and/or treat others.

1. Cheevers, spaniel did not call you "a name". Well, at first, when you said so. Then later he did, so... there.

2. Spaniel, Cheevers did not accuse that poster of being a troll. It wasn't a nicey nice response, so fair enough, but he didn't call her a troll.

Both of you should consider lightening up. History says that neither of you will.

This doesn't matter except that this is a thread that hinges on semantics, legalities, and words, and such. Practice what you preach from your pulpits.

And, sure, go ahead and tell me (again, in one of your cases) that I never add value. At least I know my high from my mighty.

>> We all form our perceptions about people based upon how they act and/or treat others.

Damn skippy about that.

You are right. He did not. I was wrong there. It was the tone and general grouchiness that seemed to come out of the blue. Anyway, I thought the knock was that I lighten up too much, and to that I would plead guilty. (I certainly could not grouch about a guy touting little chocolate donuts.) Should we shake (hands I mean)?

By this reasoning, all of the tainted TdF teams should be disqualified, including US Postal, etc. If that was the basis for taking Lance's titles, I'm not sure I'd have a problem with that. It kind of seems right for the same reasons that stripping the relay medals seems right.

I know very little about cycling. But I assume this would disqualify something close to 100% of the teams in the Tour some years. Which is ok by me.

Of course teamwork in cycling is not exactly like handing a baton to another runner.

In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

I had been avoiding this thread (to chime in) and I most probably shouldn't chime in too much. But all I can say is that the state of the sport, and as we all know not just T&F, is probably a lot worse than most people think. That is NOT to say, unlike cycling though, I'd admit, I don't know about that sport as well as I do with T&F, that ALL the winners in T&F are a cheater. It IS still possible to win championships without PED (by the say, as I'm sure everybody knows, PED stands of Performance Enhancing Drug so that also includes EPO because it enhances performance). Unfortunately, that scenario may include someone who came ahead of you being busted (in other words, without the honor of formal medal ceremony) but it still IS possible--seems getting rare and rare but it still IS.

I personally know 3 people who had been busted. I had never talked to them about it except for one, kinda casually because that case wasn't as high-profiled as others. I don't talk to the "current" athletes about it because it IS very discouraging.

Reading through some of the comments here, it does seem Spaniel gets it pretty straight. A buddy of mine had developed EPO testing procedure before Sydney Olympics. It would be interesting to actually sit down and have a deep talk with guys like him but, all I can say is, it it true that the statement like "innocent until proven guilty" is no longer valid. Sadly, they are soooo much more sophisticated. It really had become a rat-race, understandably so though, that they are chasing the cheaters all the time. They can't get the testing procedure unless they know what they are using. A prime example was, as some had mentioned, BALCO incidence. It wasn't until that "syringe" was sent to USADA that they cracked down the "users". How many athletes did they "bust" AFTER that incidence? In other words, if that syringe wasn't mailed in, we would have never known what those guys, including the world record holder in 100m, were doing. And, sadly, it is true that they are only the tip of the iceberg.

As long as $$$ is involved in T&F--and even when not, some people still cheat but I'd say the number would greatly be reduced--, there would always be cheaters because it had become such a huge business now. So is it waste of time and money to continue all the drug testing and all that? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! When they stop that and accept the reality, they we'll all lose. There may be some "pain" involved before we truly clean up the sport but until everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY (particularly officials), understands that it's worth it and that sometimes "money ain't everything", the sad state may stay for a while...

Oh the irony...in the past you have often take shots at the expense of others but the one time someone does it to you...and only to make a point that you had just done the same thing to another...you can't let it go after what, 2 years? Dude, move on already. The over-reaction has been nothing short of creepy. Heck I can't even remember the specifics but they appear to be burned into the back of your eyeballs.

It was someone else who called the poster a troll, you are correct Cheevers. My memory was faulty. But treating someone like a troll is not much different to me so I lumped it together in memory I guess. And after seeing a couple instances like that in a certain mood it just didn't seem worth it to try and engage that personality in this discussion. Perhaps I should have said been less direct like "I'm really not in the mood to get into it, now get off my lawn." It's hard to take someone seriously who is usually not serious.

But if you are serious then...As for looking for the USADA/WADA that did not involve a positive test, I'm not sure why you exclude Marion Jones. She never tested positive. A negative B sample is not a "technicality" (though I don't recall if a specific problem was cited with Jones'), there is a reason they run a B sample. Negative B samples are rare but not unheard of. "A" samples can be false-positives, a la Lagat.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand