You mean many of them are just little kids with lots of energy that need to run around and burn that energy off instead of being confined to desks or set in front of a TV all day? Like many of us have been saying for years?

Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

Like most drugs, do you eventually build up a resistance to them? And does that mean you need more powerful ones to get the same effect?

Because that's what always worried me about giving those things to kids with ADHD. Seems to me that one of two things is going to happen. Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

It just always seemed to me that you'd be better off getting used to your symptoms when your biggest problem is whether to watch Power Rangers or play Pokemon, not when you need to worry about holding down a job or keeping up a GPA, and that the drugs are really more to help the parents cope than the kids.

When I was in high school, we had a few kids who had pretty bad ADHD. Whenever they started getting disruptive or finding class more difficult, the teachers would tell them to run a lap or two around the campus (Two laps was about a mile). They'd come back in 7-10 minutes later, settle down, and be able to finish out the class. It worked wonders for their attention span and their grades.

I've heard in some places making kids run is now considered a form of abuse and won't be tolerated.

Like most drugs, do you eventually build up a resistance to them? And does that mean you need more powerful ones to get the same effect?

Because that's what always worried me about giving those things to kids with ADHD. Seems to me that one of two things is going to happen. Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

It just always seemed to me that you'd be better off getting used to your symptoms when your biggest problem is whether to watch Power Rangers or play Pokemon, not when you need to worry about holding down a job or keeping up a GPA, and that the drugs are really more to help the parents cope than the kids.

Anyone have any insight on this?

I took the same dosage of Ritalin through elementary school, then as an adult I'm taking Dexedrine. the doctors say that to keep your body from acclimatizing to the medication I'm supposed to take weekends off. been on the same dosage for the past two years, but have added Wellbutrin to help balance out my moods

verteiron:Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

Pretty much.

I like to compare it to having thousands of ideas buzzing around your head like bees.

Like most drugs, do you eventually build up a resistance to them? And does that mean you need more powerful ones to get the same effect?

Because that's what always worried me about giving those things to kids with ADHD. Seems to me that one of two things is going to happen. Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

It just always seemed to me that you'd be better off getting used to your symptoms when your biggest problem is whether to watch Power Rangers or play Pokemon, not when you need to worry about holding down a job or keeping up a GPA, and that the drugs are really more to help the parents cope than the kids.

Anyone have any insight on this?

It's not so much a tolerance to the effects as a lack of an ability to deal with the effects. I've been on Ritalin, Adderall, Adderall XR and the time-release Ritalin whose name eludes me at the moment. The one thing they all have in common is that they make your hands cold. The two, TWO things they have in common is that they make your hands cold, and they make whatever you happen to be doing at that moment the most fascinating thing anyone has ever done, ever. The ADD is still there, though, which means that you have to wrangle your focus onto whatever it is you're supposed to be doing. Once you can manage that, they are quite effective, but it's still easy to be sidetracked by minutiae. For example, I once missed a major report for work, while on Adderall, because I spent 3 hours designing the cover page. You have to watch for that sort of thing.

To more directly address your actual questions, I found that I didn't need to up my dose so much as just swap to a different med every year or two. If you have a shrink who keeps upping the dosage without offering alternatives, switch shrinks, because high dosages of these meds over long periods of time WILL screw you up. For a while I was on 60mg of Adderall XR a day. That's a very high dosage. I was productive on that dosage for several months, then my output started slipping as I kept seeking novelty in keep my drugged-up ADD brain occupied. I made poor decisions, because all alternatives seemed equally interesting AND doable. I had no sense of my own limitations. In addition I completely lost the need for the company of other people, actually going out of my way to deliberately avoid them as "distractions". It became a persistent social anxiety.

Eventually I figured out that I was getting seriously messed up, and I went off meds altogether for 3-4 years. It was rough; I had no physical withdrawal symptoms but I had to feign interest in everything, even hobbies that had been fascinating to me previously held no joy whatsoever. I got through it. Eventually I got on the time-release ritalin at a very low dose. That works very well for me.

torusXL:verteiron: Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

Pretty much.

I like to compare it to having thousands of ideas buzzing around your head like bees.

I'M COVERED IN IDEAS

it's like having five boomboxes in a room, all playing different speeches at the same volume, and trying to focus on one of them while a flock of midgets runs around you in circles poking you with sticks intermittently.

verteiron:Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

Yeah, the best way I can describe it is it's not that I necessarily zone out or go off daydreaming, it's that I *can't tune out external stimuli*. Which, to be fair, would arguably be an advantadge in a hunter-gatherer society (I seem to be a LOT more aware of my surroundings, when I'm not medicated), but not terribely useful when taking a class...

Like most drugs, do you eventually build up a resistance to them? And does that mean you need more powerful ones to get the same effect?

Because that's what always worried me about giving those things to kids with ADHD. Seems to me that one of two things is going to happen. Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

It just always seemed to me that you'd be better off getting used to your symptoms when your biggest problem is whether to watch Power Rangers or play Pokemon, not when you need to worry about holding down a job or keeping up a GPA, and that the drugs are really more to help the parents cope than the kids.

Anyone have any insight on this?

I'm not sure if I can help much here, but... I'm honestly not sure, actually. It may also be difficult to answer: I suspect what we call "ADHD" is actually from an amalgam of sources (That is, there are many different things that may be presenting simillar symptoms), ranging from genetic in some people to environmental in others, which is why some meds seem to 'work' for some people, and others don't.

I do agree that it is VERY IMPORTANT for kids to learn coping mechanisms as kids, but the medication helped me a lot, too. As I recall, we agreed to have me on meds on school days, but summer, weekends, and breaks I was off meds, and more just trying to develop and learn coping mechanisms in that time. But meds can be really important and helpful, especially when I was too young to really understand how to form good coping mechanisms (and incapable of meta-cognition).

The XKCD balloon comment summed it up rather nicely. Just trying to pull down balloons fast enough to keep things going.

I was diagnosed as a child but my parents didn't really believe in this new fangled nonsense so I never learned how to cope with it. I scraped by in school, Scraped by in college and now as an adult I still suffer from a lot of the same issues because I never learned hwo to cope.

The main problem I had and I still have with ADHD is that people have this vision of someone being unable to sit still. The "HYPERACTIVE" part of it screams that I should be bouncing off the walls and is why people get so caught up on "It's just kids being kids."

Outwardly, I seem very calm, probably even detached because it is difficult for me to interact with the world in a way that makes sense to most people. Internally I'm extremely scatter brained. I have to vent it occasionaly or it turns into a full out panic. But it's like having about 1000 ideas simultaneously and it's absolutely draining to try to follow through on any one of them.

So here I am now as an adult trying to get things under control to save my job... because what makes me great at my job the ability to thinking about things in multiple ways to see thigns differently than everyone else also makes it hard to keep everything organized remember to bill clients and meet deadlines.

Wade_Wilson:Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

What actually happens is the drugs cause psychosis, so they eventually put you on risperdal while on the ritalin or methylphenedate or adderall. Then if you quit taking the drugs, you have a constant low-level psychotic episode for years. Paranoia, voices, mood swings, depression, annoyances and insecurities turning into triggers for mass-murder, the works. Years down the line, you realize the symptoms of ADHD drain away with the psychosis, which slowly bleeds off over half a decade or so once you stop taking the drugs--the drugs cause the problem.

bluefoxicy:Wade_Wilson: Either A) the kid is going to have to periodically switch to stronger and stronger drugs throughout his entire life or B) the kid will eventually have to stop taking them and learn to cope without, but later in life when they have real problems and much more stress.

What actually happens is the drugs cause psychosis, so they eventually put you on risperdal while on the ritalin or methylphenedate or adderall. Then if you quit taking the drugs, you have a constant low-level psychotic episode for years. Paranoia, voices, mood swings, depression, annoyances and insecurities turning into triggers for mass-murder, the works. Years down the line, you realize the symptoms of ADHD drain away with the psychosis, which slowly bleeds off over half a decade or so once you stop taking the drugs--the drugs cause the problem.

TheHappyCanadian:torusXL: verteiron: Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

Pretty much.

I like to compare it to having thousands of ideas buzzing around your head like bees.

I'M COVERED IN IDEAS

it's like having five boomboxes in a room, all playing different speeches at the same volume, and trying to focus on one of them while a flock of midgets runs around you in circles poking you with sticks intermittently.

verteiron:The one thing they all have in common is that they make your hands cold.

You know, I have never made the connection between the medication and cold hands. But you are exactly right.

Other side effects I have noticed and found others complaining of the same issues:

Jaw clenchingIncreased nicotine cravingsDepression (this one took me a while, but I noticed that I would find myself despondent, especially later in the afternoon, but could not figure out why, as things would be going great.)

I have had to increase my medication multiple times, due to it just not working anymore. Even changing medications had little effect. (I'm no pharmacist, but my understanding is that the majority of them are methylphenidate, anyway.)

I've also noticed that I have to time the medicine correctly, so that I am already engaged in the correct activity when it kicks in. For example, I take it in the morning, just before my commute. If I were to sit down at my desk and start Farking, I can become way too focused on the wrong thing. (Frankly, the internet in general is horrible for ADD. There are too many rabbit holes to follow, and before you know it, hours are gone. Although I suspect many people can get caught in the same trap, ADD or no.)

I should probably increase my exercise, anyway. Maybe I should try chasing squirrels.

JinxofSpades:verteiron: The one thing they all have in common is that they make your hands cold.

You know, I have never made the connection between the medication and cold hands. But you are exactly right.

Other side effects I have noticed and found others complaining of the same issues:

Jaw clenchingIncreased nicotine cravingsDepression (this one took me a while, but I noticed that I would find myself despondent, especially later in the afternoon, but could not figure out why, as things would be going great.)

I have had to increase my medication multiple times, due to it just not working anymore. Even changing medications had little effect. (I'm no pharmacist, but my understanding is that the majority of them are methylphenidate, anyway.)

I've also noticed that I have to time the medicine correctly, so that I am already engaged in the correct activity when it kicks in. For example, I take it in the morning, just before my commute. If I were to sit down at my desk and start Farking, I can become way too focused on the wrong thing. (Frankly, the internet in general is horrible for ADD. There are too many rabbit holes to follow, and before you know it, hours are gone. Although I suspect many people can get caught in the same trap, ADD or no.)

I should probably increase my exercise, anyway. Maybe I should try chasing squirrels.

I had similar side effects while taking Adderall. I switched to Dexedrine and have had no problems whatsoever. The relief from the depression, irritability, etc was immediate and basically life changing. Unexpectedly, hyper-focusing isn't really an issue anymore, which is pretty great.

verteiron:Nah, reading something uninteresting with ADD is more like trying to have a conversation with someone across a crowded room while everyone else is trying to talk to you.

Exercise HEY may be HEY ARE YOU EVEN LISTENING TO ME? What? I SAID THERE'S A DUDE MOWING THE LAWN. Exercise may be HEY CHECK IT OUT, THE A/C CAME ON! So? IT'S ON, MAN! *sigh* Shut up already! Exercise may MAN THAT A/C REALLY RATTLES AROUND A LOT, HUH? good for DUDE WAS THAT THUNDER? may be good NAH, JUST A TRUCK. HEY, YOU SHOULD CHECK THE RADAR, MAYBE THERE'S A STORM COMING ANYWAY! WE LIKE STORMS, RIGHT? *sigh*

In fact, doing pretty much anything is like that, unless the hyper-focus kicks in... something over which there is no control.

I always thought hyper-focus tends to be fairly consistent to particular tasks for the given individual. E.G., video games, puzzles, etc. I still think ADHD isn't a disorder...it's just an intellectual trait that is geared towards certain activities over others, and simply doesn't jive too well with typical middle-upper class occupations or corporate culture. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

ADHD seems like it would lead be an irritating sort of catch-22 scenario, even when there aren't other stimuli...

"OK, everyone, listen up..."*Must concentrate...must concentrate...*"...now REMEMBER that, everyone. That was important."*SHIAT! What did he say? I need to stop concentrating on concentrating...*"...is ESPECIALLY important. This is our jobs on the line, people!"*FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!*

My 8 year old has ADHD and I try to get him exercising but it's hard because he can't focus on the task long enough to do anything. I'm talking about tossing him a ball and while in midflight he will forget he's supposed to catch it. Learning to ride a bike is seemingly impossible because of all the different things you have to think about to keep it balanced and moving forward. He gets so distracted that he starts reading the safety warning stickers on the bike.

I gotta say this is the most positive and informative thread on this subject I've ever read. I can't even get information like this from my own online research (which appears to be "don't snort Adderall"), or even from my son's pediatrician(s), therapists and other professional wonks.

My husband has ADHD. He climbed a 4 story stone church as a child and then jumped onto the roof of another building. He also has almost no memory of numerous large scars all over his face and legs. Excess energy, compulsion to do exciting things, and not paying attention are a magical combination.

Bad_Seed:Wade_Wilson: Honest question from an ignorant person about ADHD drugs.

Like most drugs, do you eventually build up a resistance to them? And does that mean you need more powerful ones to get the same effect?

Most likely. ADHD drugs are just simple stimulants. Adderall is just good, old-fashioned amphetamines. Theoretically, you could treat ADHD with caffine, though, you' d probably need lots of it.

Anyway, you tend to build up tolerance to most types of stimulants, but if your goal is attention instead of getting high, then you have a lot of leeway to keep increasing the dose.

Actually, I recently read that one reason adults seem to "outgrow" ADD has nothing to do with outgrowing it but the prevalence of use of caffeine. Most adults with ADD get their treatment in their morning joe. People don't actually typically outgrow ADD, it looks like its a brain activation difference in dopamine regulation, that's not going to necessarily change just because you're old enough to vote.