“Justice Minister Lord McNally dismissed the motion in the House of Lords.
“A posthumous pardon was not considered appropriate as Alan Turing was properly convicted of what at the time was a criminal offence,””

had that widespread travesty been retroactively addressed in pardoning Turing, it would have set a legal precedent, for which the British Criminal Justice system, I’m guessing, has zero preparation. The stinging embarrassment to Britain of his case, and its spotlit archaism, is justly humiliating; Sally Ride’s case in the US, equally so.

Until both governments reflect their peopled realities, we’re fucked.

Trondmm highlighted a shifting ground’s need for concrete: it’s not about one case, it’s about the people who decide what “case” is; it’s about everyone in that situation, and it´s about everyone who doesn’t shout the voice they’ve been given to change outdated thinking, thus: it’s about time.

I think it’s a disgrace that gay people were convicted of indecency for being gay.

I think the punishment they were given was cruel.

I think it’s a tragedy that one of the most brilliant minds of our times was among those convicted.

I do not think it’s more disgraceful to convict Turing than anybody else. Especially when nobody knew about Turing’s importance during the war.

]]>By: BillStewart2012http://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492891
Mon, 30 Jul 2012 05:48:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492891It wasn’t just a few bigots. It was a lot of bigots.

But isn’t it nice to know that Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich are still Defending your Marriage, even now that they’re no longer in office, because they’re just the people you’d have picked for the job?

]]>By: BillStewart2012http://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492885
Mon, 30 Jul 2012 05:27:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492885If you mean “an unmarried heterosexual couple”, the difference is that the heterosexual couple would have had the option of getting married, while DOMA says that the Federal government never considers same-sex couples to be married, including for Social Security and Federal employee benefits, even if they live in a state that lets them get married and have done so.

On the other hand, they’ve both had the privilege of paying up to the yearly maximum in Social Security taxes, and paying income tax at the Single rate instead of the usually-lower Married Filing Jointly. And her partner will have to pay Estate Taxes on everything she inherits, instead of getting the very large spousal deduction that married people get.

Some states like California have other options for heterosexuals, such as “domestic partnership”, but I don’t know if they count for Federal employee benefits (I assume not, though they might very well count for those states’ or some cities’ employee benefits.) They don’t count for Social Security.

]]>By: trondmmhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492774
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:59:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492774It was a slam dunk case. Derailing it wasn’t really an option. If anyone from the government or military had approached the court and instructed them to drop the case, it would surely have attracted some attention.

Also, afaik, UK doesn’t have presidential pardons, so there wouldn’t have been a simple way to reduce his punishment either.

Britain sold the Enigma to several countries after the war, so that they would be able to read their secret communications. Protecting that secret was pretty important to them.

In case there’s any doubt. I’m not defending the law or the sentence. I’m just saying that as far as the court knew, he was just another regular guy that had admitted to breaking the law, and he was given the same choice that everybody else that had been convicted of breaking that law was given.

The law was wrong, but I don’t see how they can be criticized for also applying it to secret war heroes.

]]>By: trondmmhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492761
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 22:31:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492761 The point is that many argue that it’s especially disgraceful that he was treated this way, since he was a hero. I’m just pointing out that since nobody involved in the case had any way of knowing about that, it simply wasn’t a factor at all.
]]>By: Florian Braunhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492668
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:47:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492668In fact that’s exactly when you blame them, people should be judged by how they treat those who are not special rather than how they treat those who are special.

(though granted mistreatment of heroes stands out more)

]]>By: That_Anonymous_Cowardhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492669
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:47:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492669They should, but they refuse to face the fact what they were doing was horribly wrong.
The people involved are long gone, but keeping their memory untarnished is more important than accepting they did horrible things.
]]>By: Tynamhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492666
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:44:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492666In a sane world, the question would be “should we pardon the morons who convicted him”. But we already knew the world was not just.
]]>By: That_Anonymous_Cowardhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492663
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:43:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492663He worked for someone who knew, one would think they would have kept track of this valuable asset and moved to derail the case.
What else could he have accomplished had they given a shit?
]]>By: Tynamhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492664
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:43:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492664Ummm… many people who knew exactly how important his work was had the power to prevent his conviction. They did pretty much the opposite.
]]>By: That_Anonymous_Cowardhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492660
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:38:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492660 Because their rights matter more…
]]>By: Mordicaihttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492657
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 18:26:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492657Well or “but Godwin,” though right. There was a thread a few days ago with some rube LITERALLY advocating legal positivism. It was…well, a mix of disgust & lulz.
]]>By: Funk Daddyhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492635
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 17:38:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492635World’s biggest Ponzi scheme IMO
]]>By: lafavehttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492619
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:54:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492619Jesus’ message is only ‘peace and love’ if you ignore whole chunks of the doctrine.
or if you’ve read the Gospel of Matthew (Sermon on the Mount, etc)

I’m an atheist, and agree with the gist of your point, btw.

]]>By: Aloisiushttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492609
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:16:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492609 They lived in California. California is not a common law marriage state.
]]>By: Nathan Hornbyhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492548
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:47:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492548I was just using them as a point of reference tbh. They also have little interest in converting anyone to their side (‘saving them’), which is a pretty important part of Christianity.
]]>By: Paul Renaulthttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492541
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 13:25:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492541The Westboro Baptist Church has little to do with the Bible, and much to do with Mammon.http://charliepryor.net/westboro-baptist-scam/
]]>By: Nathan Hornbyhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492519
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:38:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492519Except the bit about spreading gods word. Christian religion is pretty hot on that shit.
]]>By: Nathan Hornbyhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492517
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 11:34:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492517Jesus’ message is only ‘peace and love’ if you ignore whole chunks of the doctrine. It’s also a very recent perspective on Christianty.

Those nutty westborough baptist church folks are probably closer to the intended result of reading the bible.

]]>By: trondmmhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492482
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:58:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492482I agree. They should pardon all of them. Not just Turing.
]]>By: trondmmhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492481
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 09:57:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492481You’re forgetting that he wasn’t a hero when they convicted him. He hadn’t cracked the Enigma. He hadn’t invented the computer.

As far as the world knew, that is. All of this was top secret. Nobody knew about, or were allowed to talk about, his achievments until long after his death. In fact, his friends and family thought he was a coward for dodging armed services during the war.

He was “just” another common homosexual, at the time. Of course, that doesn’t justify treating homosexuals like that, but you can’t blame someone for treating a hero badly, when none of the people involved has any way of knowing he’s a hero.

]]>By: Bob Martinhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492465
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:51:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492465You miss the whole picture. A surviving Spouse gets the Partner’s social security, among other things. There are many rights which accrue to a married couple which are unique to that situation, and that’s why Homosexual couples who are in a committed relationship want the right to affirm that relationship legally as well as “spiritually”. Not the only reason mind you but an important one. The Congress denying that right to federal employees is just meanness on the part of a few bigots.
]]>By: Bob Martinhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492462
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:43:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492462Sorry to be harsh but that’s a cop-out. The Germans wen’t along with the holocaust for the same reason.
]]>By: Bob Martinhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492461
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:41:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492461You are absolutely right. It is wrong on every level to deny these relationships all of the rights and responsibilities given to any union if you wan’t to call it marriage or whatever. I think of it less as “Charity” and more as an assertion of the will of our society despite the fact that our government hasn’t caught up to that yet.
]]>By: Frankhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492458
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:33:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492458If those religious people really would understand their “gods word”, they could see that they “end in hell” if they pressure their will or judge upon other people only because they are different.
]]>By: Rindanhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492450
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 08:05:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492450Jesus is totally sitting up there on his cloud going “lol. f*gs.”

Personally, I am baffled at this sort of behavior. I am a godless heathen, who thinks that people who believe in magic and the supernatural are delusional, but if you are going to believe in that crap, do you really think your god is sitting up there smiling at human suffering?

Thankfully, you can’t paint all churches and religious people with the same brush. I know in my community in Boston a non-trivial portion of our churches have big old rainbow flags waving. They clearly have somehow managed to reconcile Jesus’s message of peace and love with not brutalizing your fellow humans because you don’t like the gender combination of their partnership.

]]>By: Rindanhttp://boingboing.net/2012/07/28/astronaut-sally-rides-partne.html#comment-1492443
Sun, 29 Jul 2012 07:42:00 +0000http://boingboing.net/?p=173789#comment-1492443On the plus side, I have actually seen a lot less of the “but the magic sky man told me it was wrong” arguments. I got into a Facebook slappy fight not so long ago and the argument wasn’t whether or not gay marriage is just, it was if I was being a bigot for talking shit to bigots, if the advocates for gay marriage are playing fair, and basically anything but the actual topic. When people are starting to become too ashamed to even articulate their bigotry and are left to the defenses of “but its the law”, “why change now”, and you convoluted arguments about how it is hypocritical to hate on bigots, you know that victory isn’t all that far on the horizon.
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