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+Has the most Powerul Attack available within the main game
+Perfect availability, completely destroying Burgh
+Makes the otherwise challenging Corless fight a joke
-Hustle means it'll be missing everyone once in a while
-Overusing Flare Blitz requires heavy maintinance

Vaporeon - Upper MidAvailability - Mid Game (PWT)Notable Moves - Surf, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, ToxicStats - Great HP and SpA. Above average SpD and mediocre stats everywhere else.
+It's stats make for one of the best Special tankers within the game
+One of the few Pokemon thaat can really take advantage of ToxiStalling
-Lacks a STAB move until Driftveil, requiring a Heart Scale after the Clay Battle

I'd like to get the OP (dragoniteftw) to agree to this before editting the Tiering.

First off, I've editted the Tiering with the former two mentioned two Pokemon (Darmanitan, Vaporeon). I'll probably stick to this format unless someone really has a qualm against it. Also, in which order should Pokemon within a tier be ordered? Order of apperance? Dex Number? Alphabetical? Thoughts?

I give a [1/3] (FoldingScreen) to Swanna being Middle Tier. It's stats just don't do it enough justice. Also with HM Slaves, with BW2 rarely requiring HM interaction at all, I say we don't consider it a factor. Thoughts on this?

Ahh, Drain Punch has me sold onTop Lucario [1/3]. Actually, should I just edit Lucario into the OP as both zhanton and Aura seem to agree with it? It'll srill fulfil the three-approval criteria iregardless.

I agree with Azumarril for High Tier as well [1/3] (FoldingScreen). You should also mention Ice Punch somewhere in the OP, Jordan. You could also mention Route 6 Marril as an alternative location for those who don't want to bother with Azurril.

Concerning Pokemon being ranked based on other Pokemon, I agree with zhanton (or whatever his irl name is x)) that a Pokemon should be tiered completely independant of others.*

Flygon isn't a bad Pokemon. On the contrary, it would probably be Upper-Mid at the very least if not for one glaring problem. It's Pre-Evos. Getting Trapinch to evolve into Vibrava and subsequently Flygon requires much more babying than it's worth. You have Trapinch, which has a phenominal Atk stat compared to where you catch it. You also have terrible defenses and nonexistant Spe. Once it evolves, it trades it's Atk stat for Defenses and Spe. It doesn't stop it from being terrible, but it's something. By the time you manage to get it evolved into Flygon, you'll probably only be left with Marlon and the Elite Four, which Flygon doesn't do all that well against. To add insult to injury, Dragon Claw is learned at a very late level and Earthquake is nonexistant in it's Level Up movepool.*

That being said, it does have a number of postive traits. First off, it learns Bulldoze off the bat and learns Rock Slide soon after, giving you two great tools to worth with. It's stats as a Flygon means it'll be smacking random trainers around with relatvely little trouble, assuming the player has the common sense to use it wisely.*

+It works well as an Endgame player
+Gets two fantasic moves very early on, with the Atk stat to compliment it
-It evolves too late to be of use for any major battles
-No endgame STAB moves until very late levels
-Trapinch is terrible
-Vibrava is arguably worse

I don't agree very much with your Flygon analysis,I catched Vibrava in Rebirth Mountain's dark grass.It came at level 38 while my team was 42.That's not so bad.
If you happen to have Blue Shards,you can teach it a very good move in Dragon Pulse plus it comes with Rock Slide.I recommend Vibrava only if you are patient enough to raise it.

Exaclty, you'll only be able to see rewards if you spend a long period of time babying a terrible Pokemon. Also, do note that Flygon only has 80SpA, so Dragon Pulse really isn't going to be dealing a whole lot of damage.

@flygon I think lower-mid is the correct tier. It is a great pokemon dominates UU in wifi. However its movepool just doesn't suit BW2 unfortunately. Not only is trapinch and vibrava a pain in the backside to train you are rewarded with wait for it...... DRAGON TAIL! Possibly the worst dragon move. Level 55 is around the level you'd be fore E4 so you'd have dragon claw for that. However that is still another 10 levels of grinding not to mention the fact that EQ still isn't available until post-E4.

Rating and tiers aside. I have decided to use a flygon (Defiant braviary got boring but I shall rate him soon most likely TOP/HIGH) however what I did was to catch vibrava at reversal mountain and trade flygon to white for dragon claw and EQ - cheap I know but I wanted to use him.

@Lucario do we have some sort of decision into placing him in a tier? I am gunna change my mind again and say TOP - drain punch is a great move and sword dance is available at level 37 anyway to blitz any opponent. The most important thing to remember with lucario is the fact you will have him for the whole game which definitely is making me lean to the TOP tier.

When you catch Elekid,it is pretty bad.Lackluster offenses and fraility mean it's not going to perform very well.Before Driftveil City,it's offense is limited to Electric and Fighting.At that point I suggest tutoring Ice Punch and/or Signal Beam.Electabuzz isn't very great either.The only real reason to use these pokemon is Electivire,who will steamroll everything.

+ Available Early
+ Electivire is a monster with tons of coverage
- Has to rely on Electric and Fighting before Driftveil city
- Evolves late
- Isn't evolvable without trading

You can get it fully evolved in Shaking Grass or as a level 34 or 35 (2 or 1 levels away from evolving). Pretty solid Defense and the ability to go both Physical and Special. If you have sun support, it can even outspeed some Pokemon.

In order to understand my train of thoughts,
you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

I'd put Electivire in Middle tier alongside Magmortar. They both have an almost identical situation: They begin well but really falter as they don't evolve until lvl 30. They don't reach their final forms until the Plasma Frigate when you get their respective evolution items. Actually, Electivire might be Low-Middle, since it doesn't get Earthquake until it reaches its final form leaving it with Electric move, Low Kick, Ice Punch after Driftveil and fodder for quite a while. Otherwise, very nice.

Also, in which order should Pokemon within a tier be ordered? Order of apperance? Dex Number? Alphabetical? Thoughts?

Alphabetical. imo, it's by far the easiest way to find a pokemon. I don't know dex numbers and I'll need to look up locations but I (and i hope almost everyone on SPPf) knows the alphabet and the english names of pokemon.

Just a question. Will all these Pokemon be the same tiering for post-game?

I'm fairly sure we only tier for the main game. Post-game is just too...amorphous to make tiers for it. There's also lots of different goals you can attempt post-game: you could try and get all the medals, complete the Battle Frontier or just catch 'em all. Post-game tiers just wouldn't hold as much weight when there's a lot besides battling to do.

I'm saying Sigilyph for Upper Mid too.It was a pain to find and catch one,but for that state in the game, it beasted through everything.You have to put up with Psybeam and Air Cutter until you get Surf(Energy Ball TM!),and decent STAB comes on levels 41 and 44, so it's not exactly early,but you can handle that.Hypnosis is pretty nice too.The thing can learn Shadow Ball,Heat Wave,Dark Pulse,Signal Beam,Ice Beam and Ancient Egyptian Lazor Beam,so movepool isn't an issue at all.The only problem I had with Sigilyph was that it started to become frail around the endgame.

+Brilliant offences backed up by solid defences and good speed
+Has all the moves it could ever want.
+Hustle gives Zweilous an Atk stat rivaling Kyurem-B.
-It is literally the last pokemon found in the game. Zweilous is found in the upper levels of Victory Road and it has the highest evolution level at 64.
-Forced to use the very, very inaccurate Dragon Rush as a Zweilous, augmented by Hustle.

@Lucario discussion: Drain Punch. You get it from the Move tutor in Lentimas town, which is late lvl 30s iirc. I think with that he can reach top-tier with that.

Err... yeah. Turns out the Drain Punch tutor is in Humilau city, around the 8th gym, not Lentimas town(only Superpower is there). Lucario learns Aura Sphere at lvl 51, and Marlon's Jellicent is 51. So yeah, Lucario actually does spend most of the game with just Force Palm. This'll probably drop him back to High tier territory.
EDIT: Lucario does get Iron Head from the Driftveil tutor though. Iron Head is a pretty solid STAB move, so I think that will carry him up to Top tier again.

But yeah, Hydreigon's staying bottom. You can only practically use it for 2 E4 members and post-game battles. It's a great pokemon, but the amount of time actually using it it just far too low. Not to mention that most level 64 pokemon will certainly be very helpful for the E4, even an Eviolite Zweilous.

+Can be given a great moveset as soon as you get it
+Strong and fast enough to demolish most of Colress (if you've evolved it by then), Grimsley and at least half of Iris
+U-Turn works well with Regenerator
-Obtained late
-Evolves late
-Close to dead weight in Gyms
-Often knocked out if it misses or fails to OHKO

Input welcome.

Last edited by TotalPotato; 22nd October 2012 at 1:26 PM.

100% of information in signatures on this forum involving percentages is false. If you feel as cheated by this atrocity as I do, don't you dare copy this into your signature.
Hold on... if this percentage was correct at the time of print, that means the actual percentage of false information is less than 100% if this signature is included. Which means that... no! I've become a slave to the system!!

About Flygon... you guys missed Crunch as a useful move on him. With that and Fly he should be useful on at least 3/4 of the E4!! He does well against Colress with his Ground move as well. I think he's great...

I'll be back will votes and input for this great thread when I'm done with the E4!