Laser levels

Another barn question. I have a two-story city barn with a sagging wall,
and I would like to first determine the amount of sag, the amount of
tilt, and any other out-of-square, out-of-level conditions, before
proceeding with any remediation. Ultimately this may include replacement
of corner posts, sill plates, and repair of a foundation. I'd like to do
as much of this work myself as possible.
From reviews such as Amazon, I find that the consumer-priced laser
levels are said useful mainly for things like shelving, as they project
a line on a flat surface.
I would like to use a laser level for this job, but would it help? Would
I have to buy a pro tool that costs hundreds of dollars to be of use? Am
I stuck using squares, bubble levels, plumb bobs, chalk lines, and other
tools?

I've got one of the cheapies, but I don't see how I'd use
it for a large wall. First off, one wouldn't be enough, the
cheapies lasers are good, but ... the mechanics of the use
elude me for a wall. I tried to use it to level a mobil
home shed I have and ended up putting some clear tubing in
the ends of a garden hose and using that. Even with a
tripod for the laser, I couldn't keep the tripod level
enough to get a good line.
Personally, I'd stock up on a few plumb bobs and a lot of
tough string (kevlar type) so you could lay the whole thbing
out at once and then just keedp truing until the wall comes
into plumb.
But, I'm a complete novice, too, so ... FWIW!

I have one of those $20 Harbor Fright lasers and it is a toy. You still need
another level to set up the straight line feature (the clip on) and if you
don't shoot it absolutely level from laser to the wall it will "belly".
The beam is too weak to use outside.
If you are just putting up pictures or shelves it can work but not any better
than a yardstick and some string.
If you are laying out a foundation or grading your yard use a hose and water.

Have you searched for any similar projects on Usenet? Not too long ago
I saw a website detailing some guy's efforts at restoring a really out -
of - square building. Pretty interesting approach. Not that you'd
have to use his techniques, but it could plant some fresh ideas.
With the geometry involved here, I'd be tempted to pick up a used
surveyor's theodolite. Sell it when you're done.
Why bother with lasers at all? You'll still need to measure distances
manually, either way.
I have one of those 'Strait Line' lasers, and on the package, they
mention "Accuracy: +/- 1/2" at 20 feet". 1 part in 40. Now THAT'S
impressive! Extrapolated over the kind of distances you're working
with, and you could match that precision by throwing darts!
With the kind of expenses you're looking at, you want precision. I know
which way I'd go: I'd pick up good used equipment, and sell it
afterward. Consider any difference as the equivalent of rent on the gear.
Sounds like a fun project, except for the expenses...
Dan Hartung wrote:

Yeah, there's quite a few barn restorations on the web (fewer with
pictures, alas). The tricky part is bracing for corner post replacement.
If you have any more hints on that article, though ...

That's a great idea. My dad actually happens to have one (historic
collectible, not sure I'd want to use it for this, nor do I know if it's
100% working).

Bleagh! Well, that's the kind of thing I'm finding. Very disappointing.
The hype suggests they're so good they do your laundry too.

Yeah, it's a challenge ... I wish we had the money to do it right, but
I've been around historic preservationists all my life, and I've seen
buildings almost as bad get turned into swank living spaces. In some
cases, though, it took decades!
(My favorite would have to be the old farmhouse out in the country that
was being restored sort of one room at a time. The sophisticated owners
had a wine party that was elegant except for the plastic sheeting
defining the bathroom, and the room with no floor, marked off only with
string. In those days caution tape hadn't been invented ...)

1/2" at 20 feet isn't 1 part in 40. It's 1 part in 480 ;-)
Lee Valley occasionally sells an inexpensive laser level (when they get
a shipment of them, for about $23 CDN) and they've tested it and found
it to be 1/4" in 100'.
I have one, and tho I haven't used it much, I believe it.
It's really a matter of how accurate the bubble is and how well you
read it. It's not as if laser light bends much (unless you have a black hole
handy ;-)... If you can calibrate it or slave it off a better level (like
a tested-and-known-good four footer), it would do just about as good as
anything else possibly could. Within range of the spot of course.

--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

I think so. If not, you could always duct tape it to something with a hole
in it, and bolt it to a tripod. With some calibration checking, it'd work.

A decent theodolite would do the trick of course. But one would usually not
be cost effective for just one or two jobs. Whereas, a laser level has somewhat
more flexibility/use, vastly cheaper, and with a little ingenuity/perserverance
would probably do about as well.
I figure for less than the cost of renting a theodolite, you get something
to keep and use for other things too...
Not something a pro would want to screw around with, but...

--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

A laser level is wonderful for "drawing" a straight line over a distance,
and you can then use that line as a reference point anywhere.
Be sure to buy a unit that draws a plane (or "sheet") of light,
not just a circular beam. Something like this one:
www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid 948247000
For measuring absolute level over a large distance, buy a water level:
www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page2519&category=1,43513,43505&ccurrency=2&SID
Use the water level to mark some perfectly level endpoints,
and then use the laser to draw a perfectly straight line between
those two points. You can then use a tape measure to see how far
your walls or floors are out of true.

Here's a cool water level that gives you a bit of sophistication.
Maybe not laser sophistication, but easier to use and a whole lot more
accurate.
http://www.zircon.com/SellPages/LevelAndLaser/WL25/WL25.html
I used this grading my patio (pavers) and I was amazed at how accurate
the tool was and how perfectly graded the site ended up being. I
improvised a bit, taping the working end of the tube onto a stick
(making sure it could still slide a little, inside the tape). I
marked level on the stick and then marked it in quarter inch
increments up the stick, to easily establish and check grade. For
every foot, I would line the water level a quarter inch higher.
Worked quick, easy and accurate.
It won't work for sagging walls, but certainly helps for measuring
level (not plumb) over longer distances.

Nice for working alone -- I might buy one of those.
Unless you use them on a daily basis, you don't need the fancy featured
laser levels. High accuracy, auto levelling and rotating laser levels are
very nice (and expensive), but the only time it's worthwhile is if you are
a contractor and time = money. Joe Homeowner can get the same accuracy
with a water level and a cheap laser level -- they just take a few more
minutes to set up.

I bought a laser level from home depot about four years ago ?
Anyway, setup one of those above group 25' pools. Used the square paver
stones as a base for each post section installed set on very stable dug not
filled dirt. I used a few of the pavers stacked as a platform for the laser
level as I did not have a tripos at the time. Took a very acurate regular
level, checked the pavers for level from corner to corner. Then moving the
laser level horizontally took a ruler an measured each of the base pavers
for hight took the lowest one and dug out to level all other to this hight,
used a regular level to level each from corner to corner. Also setup this
same jig from opposite direction just to make sure all is same hieght.
The results when finished the pool, I was expecting to still be off maybe at
best 1/8 of and inch.
Wehen we were filling the pool we used a water source that had a high rate
of flow (two inch line from a deep well used for irrigateion at 75 gal/min
rate.
We ended up not realizing how quick the pool would fill, was not apying
attention and over filled to the rim!
When we shut off the water we noticed that the eater was beading perfectly
around the entire diameter of the pool at the rim. I was amased at how level
from one side to the other it was and that also must mean very good
tolorences in the materials used in the pool.
At first thought would be overkill to use the laser level, was going to use
the old string level method but wanted to play with the toy. I glad I did
and I do not call it a toy anymore, Use it all the time now!

Just can not remember exact yearI bought it, not if I bought it.
I did notice all the spelling mistakes but spell checker is broke and was in
a hurry, Sorry.
I was always one to take after dear old dad and do things the old fashion
way most of the times, seemed to work and did not want to spend a lot of
money on all the new gadgets.
But I have really go a lot of use out of that laser level.
However I have made one mistake on these gadgets. I bought one of those
lasers that put the line on the wall, hang pictures, etc.
I knew better but went right out of the box to using it. Several pictures
was looking kinda uneven after using it. I got a standard level out and was
off a good 1/4 inch on a big picture. Did several tests and found the build
in level was way off, no way to adjust. I ended up making new marks on each
side to use depending on with way the level was orientated and works so far.
I will always take something out of a box and try it out before I buy next
time.
MC

I had helped setup a few of the smaller around 18 foot diameter pools for a
few freinds before, Thought that a 25 footer couln't be too much worse, Boy
was I wrong, It was a bigger job than I wanted to do.
Never again !

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