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Twitch Upcoming!

We're delaying our Twitch till AFTER a very specific KS update. You'll know what one, we'll talk about the twitch in the update. We need all hands to get this one ready.
Which still means something good is coming.https://www.twitch.tv/missingworldsmedia

I know from personal experience that shipping things across the pond is quite expensive these days (&#x1f595; at USPS). I would like to order two t-shirts but I live in Germany and I fear that shipping there will eat up any profit for this order.
Obviously, this should not happen for a fund-raiser :)

Any suggestions how to handle these extra shipping costs in a fair manner ?

I don't know about you but i feel this update is particularly greedy, i understand you want to make more money but to have a store up even before the actual alpha game is a bit too much, and i have to be critical and say that the t-shirts could have a lot more thought into them, obey was a good one cos it has colour, but tbh the other one seems rushed, i think people will buy it for 2 reasons;

1: either to kiss the rears of MWM staff
2: they got cash to throw away

I really do back this project up to the max but i have never seen any games company open up a store to purchase t-shirts even before alpha has hit, to me that screams greedy and i hope there are some backers out there that will feel the same way, i couldn't care less for free stuff either, i actually just want to know the state of the game rather than a shop, but that's just me, don't take it personal i just don't see the logic in it.

This store is NOT the upcoming permanent virtual store. It is not even a mockup of it; it is more of a processing test - a beta for handling orders. None the less, it will be live and secure and perfectly capable of taking your money to be used on one of Doctor Tyche’s nefarious plans (robot soldiers being expensive and all). Our lure: t-shirts!

Second, yes, some people are that eager to get CoT t-shirts and/or support MWM. Disparaging them because of this is hardly proper.

I'm afraid I have to agree with SypherV. I fully expected something like this after we had some kind of pre-alpha build or even the costume creator to play with. And I would be more than happy to contribute once more. But to be flogging gear for a game that doesn't exist yet, based on a couple of underwhelming tech videos? When I heard there was a super special update this month, I'm disappointed to say that this isn't what I expected.

Wow, SypherV.
Have you read the post at all?
First of all, it's a test.
Quote:
This store is NOT the upcoming permanent virtual store. It is not even a mockup of it; it is more of a processing test - a beta for handling orders. None the less, it will be live and secure and perfectly capable of taking your money to be used on one of Doctor Tyche’s nefarious plans (robot soldiers being expensive and all). Our lure: t-shirts!
Second, yes, some people are that eager to get CoT t-shirts and/or support MWM. Disparaging them because of this is hardly proper.
Critique all you like, but please do so without resorting to insults.

A test yes, but it's still taking money hence my point, it's too early for a virtual store to be live and accepting purchases when they haven't even got a decent trailer out or finished art, it all seems rushed, i know they are new to this, but that doesn't excuse this kind of profiteering that some companies like to do i.e EA anyone?

Talking as a fan rather than staff, they're (apart from the KS exclusive shirt), exactly the same deal as was offered on the KS, I have no problem with the concept of offering them now, and think it will be a useful advertising tool for when the character creator appears. I intend to wear mine to various events that people who might be interested in the game will attend.

Hey, guys. Look, it's pretty simple. We have had a lot of people going 'we missed the Kickstarter, how can we help', and we had this opportunity. It's taken us surprisingly long to get the shirts ready. First the art wasn't right, then the background on the art was printing on the shirts, so there were these big squares of color - clearly, we wanted just the art to print.

So we said 'okay, just before we send the shirts out, let's see if this paypal account works, and give people a chance to pick some up.'
This is a very limited time thing, we're only doing it for two weeks, and then everything goes off to the printer.

It struck us as a nice last-chance opportunity.

Now, I can think of a bunch of places that have solicited more purchases before an alpha. Every single KS that uses Backerkit, for example, tends to urge people to upgrade their pledge or add more perks. And Star Citizen has done all kinds of things, from mouse pads to t-shirts to patches, after the KS and before even their proto-pre-alpha Hangar Module was out.

It's not that unusual, and really, given that we have this opportunity, why not take it? You get a thing, supplied by a reputable company ( http://teelaunch.com/ ) and you get to support the game.

As far as 'a decent trailer' goes, you may not know this, but early trailers, especially cinematic ones, tend to be made by outside houses and have nothing to do with the final game. You see that a lot in console ads that are ten times more detailed than the finished game winds up being. (It's part of why I always loved Interstate '76.)

Hey, guys. Look, it's pretty simple. We have had a lot of people going 'we missed the Kickstarter, how can we help', and we had this opportunity. It's taken us surprisingly long to get the shirts ready. First the art wasn't right, then the background on the art was printing on the shirts, so there were these big squares of color - clearly, we wanted just the art to print.
So we said 'okay, just before we send the shirts out, let's see if this paypal account works, and give people a chance to pick some up.'
This is a very limited time thing, we're only doing it for two weeks, and then everything goes off to the printer.
It struck us as a nice last-chance opportunity.
Now, I can think of a bunch of places that have solicited more purchases before an alpha. Every single KS that uses Backerkit, for example, tends to urge people to upgrade their pledge or add more perks. And Star Citizen has done all kinds of things, from mouse pads to t-shirts to patches, after the KS and before even their proto-pre-alpha Hangar Module was out.
It's not that unusual, and really, given that we have this opportunity, why not take it? You get a thing, supplied by a reputable company ( http://teelaunch.com/ ) and you get to support the game.
As far as 'a decent trailer' goes, you may not know this, but early trailers, especially cinematic ones, tend to be made by outside houses and have nothing to do with the final game. You see that a lot in console ads that are ten times more detailed than the finished game winds up being. (It's part of why I always loved Interstate '76.)
Remember this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aS6qpIlJCfk
We decided not to spend that twenty grand that way. That's a lot of money. A lot of _your_ money, that wouldn't be going into the game.
Any trailer that comes from us is done by us, in our engine.
And I think we'll have something you'll like better than a trailer. And I can _almost_ say you'll see it 'Soon'. ALMOST. But not quite.
Sound good?

As far as star citizen goes it has been more successful than this project, so for them to have a merch shop seems more plausible since they have had trailers out, they have had parts of the game accessible to backers, they made like what 30 million so far? that's a poor example to use.

As for the coh original trailer they had a trailer, cinematic one albeit but it showed us what to expect, you cannot compare your project to that trailer it was far superior than what you have released to us this far.

I'm not arguing your point which is to give those who didn't back enough or back at all to get something good out of it i think that's fine, but if you don't see how this comes across to the majority of your community then i fail to see you succeeding in future endeavours.

Coh have been doing this soon rubbish for way too long and it's clearly rubbed off on you guys, basically if you read between the lines, soon means "not here, not even close, but when we feel like it" bad business if i'm honest, i know things take time i can be patient at times, but pushing out a shop which is live looks bad and doesn't really give hope for the future of the franchise, it just means you want money first before anything, something which you doubled your kickstarter funds anyway.

That wasn't just hype talk at the beginning of the update SypherV. People - lots of them - have been demanding, and I do mean demanding, for ways to GIVE us money ever since the Kickstarter ended. It's been as much bemusing as touching, honestly. We more than doubled our goal and all these people are mad because they hadn't given us even more.

I assure you, Syph, and anyone else who is wondering, that none of the references to fans wanting to give money are exaggerated. Even the simpsons picture is a reference to player demands - we've had quite a few versions of that meme posted on our forums and various other media streams. People, many people, DO want to support us that much. And they have made this very, very clear over time. People have even expressed disappointed specifically over not being able to get the T-shirts. We knew exactly what kind of demand there was when we planned this. What can I say? We're a lucky studio. We have a community who wants to support us this much. All we can do is try to live up to it.

Yes, many will probably order thinking of it as a Kickstarter without Kickstarter. Well they will get a T-shirt anyway, and if they're that much a supporter of the project they will probably enjoy having them. But I can't see how a two week store selling honest products, doubling as an excellent beta of systems we'll need in the future, to people who have been demanding ways to donate, qualifies as greed. There are better ways we could have satisfied our greed. We could have skipped the product entirely. That would have been a lot cheaper. And they'd probably have gone for it. We really have seen that meme a lot.

Besides - even with double KS goals, ours is one hell of a shoestring budget to produce an MMO on. We can only do this because our members don't take a payroll. If enough people buy, if making these stores turns out to be a steady enough income, who knows? We might be able to pay some of our management, or maybe a 3D artist or two. It would make their lives a lot saner. Heck, it would make producing the game a lot easier. Greedy, I know, but a company can dream right?

Making t shirts available has hardly anything to do with greed. If we had to pay for membership on this forum, then yeah, I would probably say they're greedy bastards. Or if we had to pay $5 just to view every update, then I'd be with you. If they are making an effort to advertise and test different merchant avenues while giving people who are early supporters a novelty, then that is great. Perhaps it's too early for some to support the project by wearing their t shirt before we're even sure we'll enjoy the graphics, I'll give you that, but this isn't some call to revolution, man. You aren't getting stiffed by the government or anything. There are times to make your "voice" heard, but trying to dispirit the forum is crap.

That wasn't just hype talk at the beginning of the update SypherV. People - lots of them - have been demanding, and I do mean demanding, for ways to GIVE us money ever since the Kickstarter ended. It's been as much bemusing as touching, honestly. We more than doubled our goal and all these people are mad because they hadn't given us even more.
I assure you, Syph, and anyone else who is wondering, that none of the references to fans wanting to give money are exaggerated. Even the simpsons picture is a reference to player demands - we've had quite a few versions of that meme posted on our forums and various other media streams. People, many people, DO want to support us that much. And they have made this very, very clear over time. People have even expressed disappointed specifically over not being able to get the T-shirts. We knew exactly what kind of demand there was when we planned this. What can I say? We're a lucky studio. We have a community who wants to support us this much. All we can do is try to live up to it.
Yes, many will probably order thinking of it as a Kickstarter without Kickstarter. Well they will get a T-shirt anyway, and if they're that much a supporter of the project they will probably enjoy having them. But I can't see how a two week store selling honest products, doubling as an excellent beta of systems we'll need in the future, to people who have been demanding ways to donate, qualifies as greed. There are better ways we could have satisfied our greed. We could have skipped the product entirely. That would have been a lot cheaper. And they'd probably have gone for it. We really have seen that meme a lot.
Besides - even with double KS goals, ours is one hell of a shoestring budget to produce an MMO on. We can only do this because our members don't take a payroll. If enough people buy, if making these stores turns out to be a steady enough income, who knows? We might be able to pay some of our management, or maybe a 3D artist or two. It would make their lives a lot saner. Heck, it would make producing the game a lot easier. Greedy, I know, but a company can dream right?

That's fair enough, if people have demanded them for some time then i see no problem with it, as i said before my intention is not to insult anyone here, i simply wanted to make a point but seeing as there is a high demand for merchandise from the store then i see no issue with it, in fact i will step back and say well done for listening to the fans, i apologise if my earlier post came across rude.

Izzy - I'm going to keep that answer a little quiet for now. It's almost Soon. But it's not quite Soon. Okay?

Shweeeet! :)

Also, any thoughts about allowing the players to change the background scenery..
..from a Sewers background, to an Alley backgrouind, or even a Rooftop background..
..and have that background be associated to a toon.

And the background could switch each time you highlight a different toon from the character select screen? :D
Just look at some Comic books (the Covers too) to get some good ideas. :)

You're making me promise things, man.
Part of the plan does involve a 'pose your character and select a background' section, yes. It's the part that's hooked into the extremely theoretical 3D printing tech.

AB updates are being held back by the character rig, it's been the major chokepoint transitioning from Unreal 3 to 4. We're making progress but until it's done we really can't display any of our progress properly.

So, you are prepared for the "I was in Bora Bora and missed the two week window but want a shirt" complaint right? And the Soon stuff to me is beyond hackneyed. Otherwise, I appreciate the T-shirt gesture and the rationale behind it.

These things happen. As far as 'Soon' goes, you're probably right, but what I was trying to say is that we're a little further away than what the old Soon joke refers to, to showing you guys something very nice.

Well, the soon thing is an old joke, honestly. Obviously we have plans, obviously many are hard to put a real date on. There's a limited list of things to say in response when those things are brought up. But maybe we'll cut back on that particular meme.

And yes, we are indeed prepared for those complaints :D. We kinda noticed the pattern, see.

A point about "Soon™": the other alternative is not to tell folks at all. We have absolutely considered that, but to be honest, the feedback overall — even when folks like or dislike one or another type of update — has been a solid super-majority in favor of "more, not less." I won't say "overwhelming majority", but folks can do the same counts we can (well, that I can, I don't handle the direct email feedback) if they want to put a precise number on it for some reason.

Speaking as the sheep currently wrangling the avatar body situation (for those who know my art skills, be reassured, "wrangling" does not mean "doing it myself"): no, we can't give you a specific date yet, largely because we want to show you something worth seeing. We're not waiting for perfect, just "clearly shows what folks care about a lot" — the problem is that even with an 'agile'-style process (part of why you've been able to see much at all yet is because we are heavily focused on "deliver early, deliver often") there are some things that just don't look like much until the 80-90% stage.

For those who didn't catch it, you might refer back to my detailed explanation of what exactly was involved with the fireworks update. The final (visible) results of a lot of things are really the tip of the iceberg. That was a couple of weeks. This is on the order of six months, depending on precisely how you count the time, although you *have* seen bits and pieces of it already. And Cabbit's "Almost Soon™" is a very deliberate attempt to not over-hype it by just saying "Soon", while telling you that there's a pretty big milestone quite a bit closer than "the horizon." But such big landmarks often prove to have nasty gullys deep enough to break a wagon wheel all around them, so just racing toward them isn't usually a wise idea.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I need to go dig out my maps of the mid-Atlantic. There seem to be some strange bubbles coming from beneath the surface, off the port bow.

Edited: because I really can construct a proper sentence, despite all evidence to the contrary.

You're making me promise things, man.
Part of the plan does involve a 'pose your character and select a background' section, yes. It's the part that's hooked into the extremely theoretical 3D printing tech.

<fnord>Remember, it's also hooked into the sub-system that drives the holo-projector prototyping table…</fnord>

So, you are prepared for the "I was in Bora Bora and missed the two week window but want a shirt" complaint right? And the Soon stuff to me is beyond hackneyed. Otherwise, I appreciate the T-shirt gesture and the rationale behind it.

These shirts will be available in the future as well. This is not a "one time and its gone" thing. The two week window is for testing out things on our back-end before we have the full store setup later this year. Once that is setup, they will be back and available again, along with some other ones we have in the pipeline.

Warcabbit Note: This store is a one time and it's gone thing. However, in the far future when we have a game to sell and a full time store, one or two of them may reappear. Though maybe in different colors. Logo in something other than KS Green, for example.

—

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

Fire Away wrote:
So, you are prepared for the "I was in Bora Bora and missed the two week window but want a shirt" complaint right? And the Soon stuff to me is beyond hackneyed. Otherwise, I appreciate the T-shirt gesture and the rationale behind it.

These shirts will be available in the future as well. This is not a "one time and its gone" thing. The two week window is for testing out things on our back-end before we have the full store setup later this year. Once that is setup, they will be back and available again, along with some other ones we have in the pipeline.

Now ya see... I knew you guys could do it! A legit question from an admittedly not so slick player (me) answered in full with a projected timeframe. Thanks.

And not to beat the Soon thing into the ground but... I get we the masses are starved for information. And I get you have the option of not saying anything. I just don't consider saying something (we don't know what) is coming (we don't know when) wrapped in a tired cliche does much in terms of information sharing. It could be I am just not good at reading between the lines.

Anyway, thanks for answering my question and taking my criticism in the friendly spirit it was intended. I continue to respect and admire you all.

Look I'm not calling you greedy or anything and I do actually like that you are trying to give people who missed the kickstarter the chance to support and I do know you need practice with shipping and selling and all that, but this update should have been a side update, not the weekly update. As far as I know the most we got this month so far was an interview. I understand if you don't want to talk about mechanics until you are absolutely sure it will work but you should have at least given us some lore to chew on for the month this week.

Please have other methods of pay besides Paypal.
Paypal is a pain. this time I escaped paying as a guest
Trust me Paypal is no pal of mine.

We will. Paypal is used this time only as a quick and dirty cart so we can test the back end with a known-good system. Once we know the back-end is good, we can begin testing against other payment systems.

—

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

The fireworks video was the tech for the month? I thought it was just a little bonus for July 4th festivities. I mean even admittedly by the devs the fireworks effect wasn't that great and we were shown that same unfinished I textured statute that we've been seeing for months. We just got "trust us things happened in the background" lol

The fireworks video was the tech for the month? I thought it was just a little bonus for July 4th festivities. I mean even admittedly by the devs the fireworks effect wasn't that great and we were shown that same unfinished I textured statute that we've been seeing for months. We just got "trust us things happened in the background" lol

A bonus, yes. Still considered tech but is not the tech video for the month.

—

Technical Director

Read enough Facebook and you have to make Sanity Checks. I guess FB is the Great Old One of the interent these days... - Beamrider

I think the t-shirt store in the mall would make me a purple shirt with an iridescent green radiation symbol on it, assuming it's still there when I go back. Malls are transitory things these days.....

IDEA
At some point, offer character commissions and the option to have art of your characters sold on t-shirts/mugs/posters.
Who wouldn't want to wear a shirt depicting the Nightmare in a maniacal laugh?

One can only hope for the additional option of having "Behold.. the greatest.. NIGHTMARE!" plastered below the picture.

Totally agree with you SypherV.
Refusing to accept this comes across badly to many in the community is also poor.

Sure but there is a world's span difference between 'refusing to accept' and 'responding to.'

I don't see their responses as refusing to accept critiques, I see them as responding to said critiques with their reasoning for the decision.

Also, 'comes across badly to many?' If that's the case, why are an overwhelming majority of posts in favor of it? There's what, three posts that have a problem with it? That's not 'many.' That's the opposite of many.

Had they decided to not sell anything until the game's due out, wouldn't they have then been failing to accept the wishes of a good deal many more posters who wanted them to?

and i would love to pay a monthly subscription.
i hear that before everquest, people had to pay 50-200 dollars a hour for text based versions of dungeons and dragons. now that is insane.

and 15-20 dollars buys me one ticket to the movies (a really nice stadium seating theater, with plush seats) for at best 3 hours. people could spend 20-35 hours a week via the game. comic books cost 4 bucks. they last 15-20 minutes. costing about 12 dollars a hour of entertainment.

i will always hate free to play models, unless it is just to let people taste what they might have before paying for it.

—

What a man thinks of himself, that is what determines, or rather indicates, his fate. - Henry David Thoreau

.....As a veteran of this magic time "before Everquest" I can assure you that was extremely exaggerated. AT WORST you had a GM with some insanely awesome program that responded to /commands with accurate and fair rolls and had to pay him 10 bucks a month to borrow it for your own games. If you wanted a MUD (Multi User Dungeon for all you young whippersnappers) there were plenty of sites that facilitated them mostly through AOL's service. And even then, there was Ultima Online which predated Everquest by 6 years AND had the same subscription model AND was the first true MMO.

Also, if you hate F2P models then you are missing out on many of the games I frequent (Dota, TF2, Planetside 2..) and the pure fun they can give.

socialism. can't stand it.
i cannot wait for a store full of various things.
and i would love to pay a monthly subscription.
i hear that before everquest, people had to pay 50-200 dollars a hour for text based versions of dungeons and dragons. now that is insane.

Before the idea of a monthly fee for internet access came about, AOL charged about $6/hour for connecting to the internet, and other services were in the same price range I believe. Therefore, playing an online game (such as the original Neverwinter) would cost you $6 an hour on top of the game purchase. I don't know where you got a figure like this from.

Quote:

i will always hate free to play models, unless it is just to let people taste what they might have before paying for it.

CoT is a buy the box model so everyone playing (outside of a free trial) will have paid to do so.

—

-----------------------------------------
I never set anything on fire accidentally!

DnD NEVER happens more than once a week. Seriously. Everyone's schedules have to be in perfect harmony to have DnD night.. So you'd be looking at 3 hours tops, 5 if you're lucky/not lucky (trust me, 5 hours with a bad player/drama hurricane is a Nightmare..) a week, going at around 12-20 hours a month.. 120 bucks a month for DnD? Ehhh... Also, by that time not everyone really had a Computer so anyone who used MUDs were able to afford it graciously without any real dent in their pocket (USUALLY! Always exceptions.). Remember this was the late 90s, early 2000s. The net as we know it didn't exist then.

Quick question before I make the order: I can see I can order, and assume CoT is will ship to Australia (or anywhere else in the world?) free of charge?
EDIT: UPDATE: I looked at eBay to check 'typical' postage from the USA to Australia of various T-shirt offers, they seemed to range from US$11 to US$25 per item.

Both this early reply the post before mine asked about shipping costs for items out of the US. I do not think either question was addressed (or did I miss something?), before the thread went sideways a little - more's the pity - I would have liked to have had a feel for what the project thought.

Not to worry. This was just a test to see if the ordering worked. You'll have plenty of opportunities to order shirts (or whatever) when the store goes live. At that point, at the latest, information about shipping outside the contiguous USA should be available.