The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?

Michael,

I never said they practice and teach it as described and defined by Ellis Peterson - only that Peterson is an expert in the field of radionics. To me, he comes across as kind of an Arthur Young type, in that he has a solid scientific background.

What is your point with this question?

Do you dispute this lady was performing some kind of ritual, or only my best guess that she was a Rosicrucian?

Alternatively, you can use various groupings of these keywords to see what your favored search engine throws out:

radionics - psionics - Rosicrucians - amorc

(psionics is the more modern term for radionics)

Greg,

My point is: What is the basis for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics? And what is your definition of radionics as it applies to AMORC?

The link you provided does not answer those questions. I spent an hour reading the AMORC websites, the website of Ellis Peterson, and various other Googled entries for radionics before I posted my questions to you.

Why not provide the documentation for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics rather than suggest I search and find it?

Michael,

for the sake of argument, let's say I got that wrong and AMORC does not practice or teach radionics or anything similar.

Is that the most important aspect of what I wrote? Does it diminish in any way, the analysis that the lady was not a mental case, but was actually conducting some type of ritual?

As it happens, it took me literally two seconds to re find this (it was in fact one the sites I'd found originally, but cited only what looked like the best reference):http://www.hscti.com...order_AMORC.htm

Go after me and/or my research by all means, but don't let your animus toward me lead to actively seeking any flaw you can. Some just aren't that important. And others are only in the mind of the reader...

Greg,

Anyone reading this exchange will see that I only asked you to document something that was integral to your claims about the Oxnard call. Instead of answering the questionsyou have employed all sorts of diversions, including assigning motives to my questions and demeaning them even though they go to the heart of your explanation of the Oxnard call.

The link that only took you two seconds to find can't even spell rosicrucian correctly. It has nothing to do with AMORC. And you're telling me how to employ search engines?

Greg, I really had to exercise self-control in not adopting the tone you're taking with me.

[quote name='Michael Hogan' post='149786' date='Jul 15 2008, 10:17 AM'][quote name='Greg Parker' post='149782' date='Jul 14 2008, 07:45 PM'][quote name='Michael Hogan' post='149780' date='Jul 15 2008, 08:59 AM'][quote name='Greg Parker' post='149772' date='Jul 14 2008, 06:15 PM'][quote name='Michael Hogan' post='149758' date='Jul 15 2008, 05:05 AM'][quote name='Greg Parker' post='149730' date='Jul 14 2008, 08:31 AM']The woman was not calling anyone - nor attempting to. The phone and the ability to dial numbers was part of a magic ritual - possibly - or even probably - a radionics ritual. My bet? She was a Rosicrucian attempting to ensure the success of the assassination (yes, imo, she had foreknowledge. The alternative being that she had no foreknowledge - but her spell actually worked). This would lead to the JFK era going up in smoke (along with the hated courts and their civil rights) and being replaced by a government which would take over "everything".

In your article The Oxnard Riddle Explained you state: "Rosicrucians (AMORC) are among a number of groups who practice and teach radionics." (Citation: Rosicrucian (AMORC) Digest, 1943)

Can you offer any more evidence to support the above statement?

Do you maintain that AMORC practices and teaches radionics as described and defined by Ellis Peterson?[/quote]

Michael,

I never said they practice and teach it as described and defined by Ellis Peterson - only that Peterson is an expert in the field of radionics. To me, he comes across as kind of an Arthur Young type, in that he has a solid scientific background.

What is your point with this question?

Do you dispute this lady was performing some kind of ritual, or only my best guess that she was a Rosicrucian?

Alternatively, you can use various groupings of these keywords to see what your favored search engine throws out:

radionics - psionics - Rosicrucians - amorc

(psionics is the more modern term for radionics)[/quote]

Greg,

My point is: What is the basis for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics? And what is your definition of radionics as it applies to AMORC?

The link you provided does not answer those questions. I spent an hour reading the AMORC websites, the website of Ellis Peterson, and various other Googled entries for radionics before I posted my questions to you.

Why not provide the documentation for your claim that AMORC practices and teaches radionics rather than suggest I search and find it?[/quote]

Michael,

for the sake of argument, let's say I got that wrong and AMORC does not practice or teach radionics or anything similar.

Is that the most important aspect of what I wrote? Does it diminish in any way, the analysis that the lady was not a mental case, but was actually conducting some type of ritual?

As it happens, it took me literally two seconds to re find this (it was in fact one the sites I'd found originally, but cited only what looked like the best reference):http://www.hscti.com...order_AMORC.htm

Go after me and/or my research by all means, but don't let your animus toward me lead to actively seeking any flaw you can. Some just aren't that important. And others are only in the mind of the reader...[/quote]

Greg,

Anyone reading this exchange will see that I only asked you to document something that was integral to your claims about the Oxnard call. Instead of answering the questionsyou have employed all sorts of diversions, including assigning motives to my questions and demeaning them even though they go to the heart of your explanation of the Oxnard call.

The link that only took you two seconds to find can't even spell rosicrucian correctly. It has nothing to do with AMORC. And you're telling me how to employ search engines?

Greg, I really had to exercise self-control in not adopting the tone you're taking with me.[/quote]

Michael,

I have already disputed your claim that your question is integral. It is not. Your motive can be inferred from your avoidance of the actual issue whilst focusing in on the one thing you seem to feel is flawed.

The guy who runs the website is not from an English speaking background. I'd rather not try and find fault with his spelling, but each to their own.

Here is one of the claims made by Welz: the rosecrucian order - AMORC - was founded by Harvey Lewis in 1912

Here you can find the ultimate the rosecrucian order - AMORC - was founded by Harvey Lewis in 1912 application of a new and powerful technology that allows you to take control of love, business, career, sports performance, fitness and life itself...

This is from my article and includes a quote from AMORC:The Ends and the Means This was the heading used in an article published by Rosicrucian Forums magazine during 1963. The article stated that concentration was the most important tool available to the Rosicrucian and goes on to describe it as the "directing of mental processes toward a certain end. We are focusing those processes and powers upon a certain object in order to bring about a situation which we believe is to our advantage and will be to our satisfaction."

Seems to me, AMORC and Welz are pretty much attuned with each other.

Now how about the real issue! Do you dispute the analysis as to what the woman was actually doing, or not?

I have already disputed your claim that your question is integral. It is not. Your motive can be inferred from your avoidance of the actual issue whilst focusing in on the one thing you seem to feel is flawed.

You cited a 1943 issue of Rosicrucian Digest as a source for a claim you made in your article which purported to explain the Oxnard call. It would have been a simple matter for you to quote the article.That would have been the end of the discussion, if it had indeed supported your claim. Quit inviting people to go after you or your research (your words) when you don't mean it.

The guy who runs the website is not from an English speaking background. I'd rather not try and find fault with his spelling, but each to their own.

To each their own. The guy can't spell the word rosicrucian and you want to cite him as an authority on AMORC when nothing he said has anything to do with my question or your claim. Try taking more than two seconds.

Seems to me, AMORC and Welz are pretty much attuned with each other.

That shows how little you've actually researched AMORC.

[Now how about the real issue! Do you dispute the analysis as to what the woman was actually doing, or not?

Or is the tone still not to your liking?

I dispute that you have any basis for concluding she was probably a Rosicrucian. As far as your tone, I never said I didn't like it. In fact, I think it reflects accordingly on you and I rather like that.

for the sake of argument, let's say I got that wrong and AMORC does not practice or teach radionics or anything similar.

Is that the most important aspect of what I wrote? Does it diminish in any way, the analysis that the lady was not a mental case, but was actually conducting some type of ritual?

Yes, it certainly does when You claim she was probably a Rosicrucian and offer no evidence whatsoever.

I've seen you disparage and ridicule a researcher's entire work that you hadn't even read based on instances that weren't essential to his overall conclusion. But that's another story.

Bottom line, you listed an obscure citation for one of your claims about Rosicrucians. It should have been simple for you to elaborate by quoting the referred to article. Instead you provide links that have absolutely no bearing on your article and what you wrote. My questions to you were to the point and polite. You blame me because you can't back up the footnotes on your website?

QUOTE(Greg Parker @ Jul 14 2008, 09:38 PM) I have already disputed your claim that your question is integral. It is not. Your motive can be inferred from your avoidance of the actual issue whilst focusing in on the one thing you seem to feel is flawed.

You cited a 1943 issue of Rosicrucian Digest as a source for a claim you made in your article which purported to explain the Oxnard call.

It did no such thing. It supported what it stated it supported - that AMORC are involved with radionics.

It would have been a simple matter for you to quote the article.

You did not request that. Go back and read what you said. You wanted ADDITIONAL sources. That's what I gave you.

That would have been the end of the discussion, if it had indeed supported your claim.

It does. Check it out. You'll find it i Google books.

Here's yet another:

Radiesthesia: Alternative Health Dictionary on Radionics

radionics (psionics): Ill-defined offshoot of radiesthesia founded and named by San Francisco-born neurologist Albert Abrams, M.D., M.A. (1863-1924), author of Spondylotherapy (1910) and New Concepts of Diagnosis and Treatment (1916).

Radionics, which encompasses radionic diagnosis and radionic therapy, is a combination of clairvoyant diagnosis, distant diagnosis (remote diagnosis), and psychic healing. Abrams associated different diseases with different radio waves emitted by various parts of the body and by tissue samples. He invented an ostensibly diagnostic electrical system whose components included: a Dynamizer - a receptacle for blood or tissue samples; three rheostats (devices that regulate electric current); and an electrode, which the practitioner would affix to the patient's forehead. Abrams claimed that one could even ascertain a patient's religion with his system, and that the patient's autograph could substitute for blood in the Dynamizer. For treatment, he recommended his Oscilloclast: a device designed to emit curative vibrations.

Below is a brief description of what a neophyte will learn during his or her first five years of affiliation with AMORC. These teachings are part of the Rosicrucian Monographs. These are not the only subjects covered by the Rosicrucian system. The list contained here, which should be perceived as unofficial, is adapted from the Rosicrucian Home Study Lessons section of the Web version of the Mastery of Life published by the English Grand Lodge for the Americas. You are advised to read the official and complete list at AMORC's website: Dir ...See also:

Quit inviting people to go after you or your research (your words) when you don't mean it.

Oh I meant it. I just have a preference for those who do it with ethical intention.

QUOTE(Greg Parker @ Jul 14 2008, 09:38 PM) The guy who runs the website is not from an English speaking background. I'd rather not try and find fault with his spelling, but each to their own.

To each their own. The guy can't spell the word rosicrucian and you want to cite him as an authority on AMORC when nothing he said has anything to do with my question or your claim. Try taking more than two seconds.Says you.

I don't know about the Rosicruscians, but I think you might be on to something.

Radionics would certainly explain a lot of the Oxnard phone call.

And you can site me as a source for the fact that Arthur Young believed in and practiced Radionics. When I was at his home he tried to explain radionics to me, and said that his research was connected with someone in England.

I don't know about the Rosicruscians, but I think you might be on to something.

Radionics would certainly explain a lot of the Oxnard phone call.

And you can site me as a source for the fact that Arthur Young believed in and practiced Radionics. When I was at his home he tried to explain radionics to me, and said that his research was connected with someone in England.

BK

The other person involved in the experiments with Arthur Young was Frances Farrelly.

Bill, I don't think it matters whether she was Rosicrucian, Wiccan, a Rune Master or self-taught... that argument has been dragged across the screen to distract from the fact that there is something to this. Can anyone conjure up a mental image of this woman, with her receiver on a table, whispering in a rhythmic fashion, repeating the names of various courts and dialing 12 to 15 numbers seemingly at random, then saying the president will be killed at a very specific time, and repeating that whole thing - stopping only to coolly tell the operator in a clear voice that she is "using" the phone without concluding she was casting some type of spell? The operators knew damn well she was not using the phone to talk to anyone - yet she was indeed, using it for something. And mentally or emotionally disturbed individuals cannot turn that disturbance on and off at will. To stick to the image of her as "mental" you would have to rewrite the book on mental illness to get around her brief, lucid chat with the operator in the middle of all this.

All of that aside about it not really mattering, I stick by my conjecture that she was a Rosicrucian. In fact, to that, I'll add the conjecture that she was also in the JBS.

But back to radionics: here is some more of the email from Ellis...(he gave permission to use at will)

The laws of quantum physics known all down through history under other names was always explained to us in flowery terms.

Now we have the capability to understand and use it in plain English.

The other gifts of the Age of Aquarius are Science of Radionics and the Internet.

All the great healers and shamans and voodoo doctors, medicine men knew the principles of radionics.

A radionics device has three working parts. A power source, an intention (what do you want ) and a target (where do you want the energy to go).

All of man's inventions were taken from the man himself.

ie, a camera is the human eye, the telephone is the ear, the computer is the brain.

We have all these inside of us.

So --- the science of Mental Radionics is old but known under various other names.

Your mind is the power source, your mental image is the target and your words or incantations are the intentions.

Just like a voodoo doctor uses the energy of a dead rooster, the clay image of the target and his magical incantations.

Radionics is no more than magic at a distance or affecting physical bodies without the use of physical contact.

The Laws of Quantum Physics tell us that everything that ever was, is or will be is contained in an infinite ocean of intelligent energy, the quantum ocean.

And our thoughts are things. By using mental radionics you make the connection in the quantum ocean. Energy flows.

Yes i would say that she was performing some kind of mental radionics magic.

So call it radionics, voodoo, psionics, shamanism, black magick, psychic healing, or a host of other names...using a host of different props... doesn't matter...like I said to Michael - IT'S ALL THE SAME SHTICK.

Hopefully Michael will eventually focus on what's important... instead of worrying about which of its various labels should be put on it.

radionics (psionics): Ill-defined offshoot of radiesthesia founded and named by San Francisco-born neurologist Albert Abrams, M.D., M.A. (1863-1924), author of Spondylotherapy (1910) and New Concepts of Diagnosis and Treatment (1916).

Radionics, which encompasses radionic diagnosis and radionic therapy, is a combination of clairvoyant diagnosis, distant diagnosis (remote diagnosis), and psychic healing. Abrams associated different diseases with different radio waves emitted by various parts of the body and by tissue samples. He invented an ostensibly diagnostic electrical system whose components included: a Dynamizer - a receptacle for blood or tissue samples; three rheostats (devices that regulate electric current); and an electrode, which the practitioner would affix to the patient's forehead. Abrams claimed that one could even ascertain a patient's religion with his system, and that the patient's autograph could substitute for blood in the Dynamizer. For treatment, he recommended his Oscilloclast: a device designed to emit curative vibrations.

Below is a brief description of what a neophyte will learn during his or her first five years of affiliation with AMORC. These teachings are part of the Rosicrucian Monographs. These are not the only subjects covered by the Rosicrucian system. The list contained here, which should be perceived as unofficial, is adapted from the Rosicrucian Home Study Lessons section of the Web version of the Mastery of Life published by the English Grand Lodge for the Americas. You are advised to read the official and complete list at AMORC's website: Dir ... See also:

What was the last thing heard by Mrs Bliss from the mystery lady? The words "thermostat", "rheostat", and "heostat".

Those words ostensibly have nothing to do with the subjects of her incantations ie the murder of a president, the replacement of a government and the bringing down of the courts... but the words do have a connection to radionics - the type taught by Rosicrucians in their monographs.

---

Coincidence # (fill in the blank)

From the writings of Ellis Peterson:

The powerful and ever working Cosmic Law (Everything is under Law) of Three is at work in all Radionics Devices.

The Law of Three tells us that whenever you bring two energy fields together a third energy field is created. This energy field is the relationship between the two.

When you bring a power source of Life Force, a Treatment or Intention (wish, thought, prayer) together with a target (photo, signature, hair, or blood) on a Radionics Matrix, be it paper, wood or electronic, the Law of Three takes hold and connects them all.http://ragnar111.wor...dionics-part-3/

From the epilogue to Marina & Lee:Marina knew that her husband attributed an altogether magical significance to the number three and was obsessed by it.

(p 458 of my edition) - but you really need to read the whole page to get the full impact of this number on Oswald.

There are definitely some cases that have no bearing whatsoever on the assassination, I would venture, however if one looks at this area seriously, you have to start with a complete list.And this is a complete list.Source:http://www.supremeco..._1949-1970.html

There is one addendum to this post; The case involving the Bunge Corporation and the Great Salad Oil Swindle, is not exclusively in the domain of the Were We Controlled, Manchurian Candidate area, but was a very real legal case, that also involved, to some degree, the liquidation of the Ira Haupt Company, which also deserves a look see.

There are definitely some cases that have no bearing whatsoever on the assassination, I would venture, however if one looks at this area seriously, you have to start with a complete list.And this is a complete list.Source:http://www.supremeco..._1949-1970.html

There is one addendum to this post; The case involving the Bunge Corporation and the Great Salad Oil Swindle, is not exclusively in the domain of the Were We Controlled, Manchurian Candidate area, but was a very real legal case, that also involved, to some degree, the liquidation of the Ira Haupt Company, which also deserves a look see.

At the bottom of this post is a followup to the previous information, which, as I am well aware, generated so much excitement it killed this threadMore pertinent to the topic of Lawyers is found belowfrom WCD 106page 9 Excerpt of Interview with Henry Machirella, newsman for The New York Daily News....."Machirella also related the following facts which were revealed to him on November 25, 1963, by Tom Howard who was attorney for Jack Ruby. Howard was in the basement near the public elevator at the time Oswald was shot. This was not in the same area where the shooting took place. After the shooting Howard left the basement of the building and went to his office nearby. His partner E. C. Sullivan was in the office at the time. There was also a man in the office, whom Howard identified "as a lawyer from the East," This man had an attache case with him, which he opened, and which contained two guns, one of these was an automatic and a pistol. This man had told Howard that he came to Dallas to kill Oswald. Howard informed this man that he might as well take a bus back East.Machirella questioned Howard as to whether he had reported this to police authorities, and Howard indicated he had not. Howard did say he had taken the two guns from this man.http://www.maryferre...06&relPageId=31also see Barnett, Welcome Eugene "Gene"Sources: Warren Report, pp. 155, 253; WC 7, p. 539; WC 22, pp. 596, 598; WC 25, pp. 168, 377; CE 2398; CD 104, pp. 5-7; CD 223, p. 327; CD 355, p. 52; CD 897, pp. 48-9; Six Seconds in Dallas, Thompson, p. 254; Rush to Judgment, Lane, pp. 88, 108; Photographic Whitewash, Weisberg, pp. 37, 168-169Mary's Comments: Dallas Police Department Patrolman. Assigned to Houston and Elm Streets 11/22/63. He "repaired" Jean Lollis Hill's cigarette lighter. Friend of Ruby. Put on Ruby's jail visitor's list. Married. (Grover William Cantrell, partner of Attorney Tom Howard in Danceland Night Club, did live at 6030 Munger, Dallas; CD 106, pp. 28-29.)

After posting the above legal cases, quite some time ago, Pan-American World Airways vs United States is probably the most noteworthy, but not in any critical sense.On a somewhat related note, spurred by the posts regarding the Stockpile Scandal, I spent a great deal of time looking into the some 213 JFK Executive Orderswhich are chronological, and on the internet....., there was nothing of any profundity regarding the Stockpile Scandal with regards to Executive Orders, as far as I am aware. The most compelling Executive Order which was redacted as far as content, was as followsJohn F. Kennedy September 20, 1961 Executive Order 10964 - Amendment of Executive Order No. 10501 Entitled "Safeguarding Official Information in the Interests of the Defense of the United States"See Section 13 is amended to read as follows:"SEC. 13. 'Restricted Data,' Material Formerly Designated as 'Restricted Data,' Communications Intelligence and Cryptography. (a) Nothing in this order shall supersede any requirements made by or under the Atomic Energy Act of August 30, 1954, as amended. 'Restricted Data,' and material formerly designated as 'Restricted Data,' shall be handled, protected, classified, downgraded, and declassified in conformity with the provisions of the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended, and the regulations of the Atomic Energy Commission."(Nothing in this order shall prohibit any special requirements that the originating agency or other appropriate authority may impose as to communications intelligence, cryptography, and matters related thereto." http://www.presidenc...x.php?pid=58902

Is it or is it not obvious that troubling conflicts of interests, or the potential for them to be raised as controversies, should have been so apparent to the Warren Commission and to Tom C. Clark, related to appointing Albert E. Jenner, Jr., Jenner should not have been offered a position as a senior assistant investigative counsel, and he should not have agreed to serve in that position?

An FBI document dated September 14, 1964 under the heading Lee Harvey Oswald reads in part

"Odio is alleged to have told Mrs. C.L. Connell on November. 28, 1963 that Oswald had spoken previously to small Cuban exile-groups in Dallas and had been well received . Odio is also alleged by Mrs. Connell to have mentioned that a friend of Odio's had called a Cuban friend in New Orleans who warned the Cubans in Dallas to beware of Oswald as they considered him a possible double-agent trying to infiltrate the Cuban exile-groups."

I realize that this may or may not be old news but the phrasing of the document gives hints that the Cuban friend in New Orleans may have been Carlos Bringuer, then there is the controversy over discrepancies in 'the accounts given of events' between Silvia Odio and Lucille Connell aka Mrs Mary Lucille Bass Connell aka Lucille Connell Light, [these variations are not aliases just indicative of full name and the latter her name circa 1978.] There is more than one possibility obviously concerning said discrepancies over statement made to the FBI regarding these two personages, [thank God it does not take a woman to know, [inside joke] Mrs Connell could have been.........spinning at best or lying at worse and furthermore Silvia Odio as the following reveals was suffering from....god knows what.....Continuing......another document dated September 10th, 1964 an FBI report by SA Richard Burnett reads:

First line redacted [a name, probably a hospital administrator ]............Professional Center Hospital, 1735 West Irving Boulevard, advised that her files indicate that SILVIA EUGENIA ODIO, 1816-A West Davis, Dallas, Texas was a patient at this hospital on one occasion and that was from the time of her admission at 4:00 PM on November 22, 1963 until her discharge from the hospital around 3:15 November 24, 1963The patient was described as a single female, 26 years of age, born May 4, 1937, and an employee of National Chemsearch, Carl Road, Irving, Texas. She listed as her friend one SHEILA MACOURICK, 4222 North Crest, Dallas, Texas.

Dr. SHLIPAK prepared a history and physical report on November 22, 1963, pertaining to Miss ODIO's health and it reads as follows:

"This 25 year old white female was admitted on 11-22-63 after fainting at work. The patient is apparently two months' pregnant, and has been having a threatened abortion. She has been bleeding for approximately four or five days, and at the present time. Approximately three nights ago she had very heavy bleeding, but this has lessened since that time."

The patient was in an automobile accident approximately one month ago in which her abdomen was slightly injured. She had bleeding for approximately two day's following this. The patient has been under considerable emotional strain and has been under the care of a psychiatrist."

"Soon after hearing of President Kennedy's death, the patient fainted at work. She was seen at work, and then taken to the hospital via ambulance."

"This is apparently the patient's fourth pregnancy."

"The patient has been having rather frequent, though intermittent headaches."

Miss GORE [likely this is the name redacted at beginning of the document] added her files do not indicate that Miss ODIO has ever been a patient at this hospital prior to or subsequent to this one occasion from November 22, 1963 through November 24, 1963

END

Well, interesting....Sheila Macourek [see the name discrepancy?] is of particular interest to me, maryferrell.org has the following regarding her:

SHEILA ----- MACOUREKCD 1546, pp. 196, 198 Worked in same office with Sylvia Odio at National Chemsearch. By 9/10/64, Macourek was married and living in Portugal...Portugal...how far is say Lisbon, Portugal to Madrid, Spain? That would be 311 miles or 501 kilometers, as the crow flies, as it were. Why does that matter? There are a few JFK assassination 'person's of interest' who matriculated over to Madrid, which had and has it's own particular set of intriguing Post Cold War activity [ranging from CIA, Reinhard Gehlen/Otto Skorzeny/US Army CIC/Franco/Willoughby/KGB ...oh never mind..it's just a thought..

Also National Chemsearch get's into an area of oil/geologist's.....Socony Mobil does it not?

JAMES H. DYERCD 1546, pp. 196-197 International co-ordinator for National Chemsearch Corp., Carl Rd., Irving. Sylvia Odio was his secretary from Sept 16, 1963, until Feb 10, 1964, when she quit...

In closing I would mention that obviously there are voluminous articles. book excerpts et cetera regarding this subject. I pretty much try not to endorse a particular author, on any JFK related subject because then I can be open to accusations of being...well...take your pick, but I am forced to suggest that Jim DiEugenio in my opinion would be my guide in sifting through what could be the most convoluted episode of al the JFK Assassination related subplots, because...well I think his work on the subject is impartial and pretty much speaks for itself...As to the identities of Leopoldo & Angel, as Will Smith say's [Oh Hell, no!!]

Supporting details for the information in this post ends here:http://educationforu...68 ...and in links to other postsdisplayed in the post accessible at that link.

Dallas realty records include a February, 1965 transaction in which it is noted that Lucille B. Connell was formerlythe wife of C. Lee Connell. To me, this indicated that the Connells were divorced no later than 14 months after Lucille'sstatement to the FBI on 28 November, 1963. Initially I suspected that Lucille B. Connell's "volunteer" work for Catholic Reliefand or her involvement with Sylvia Odio might have been a contributing factor in the divorce of the Connell's 30 years longmarriage.

However, Mary Ferrell noted that C. Lee Connell was a pallbearer in the funeral of Dallas Catholic Relief founder Joaquin C. Insuaon 17 December, 1964. This information suggested that the Connells were united in these politically oriented efforts. There wasalso the fact that the Connells were Baptists, not Catholics. I wondered where Lucille B. Connell found the time and motivationto help fund the immigration from Cuba of Sylvia Odio, assist her in obtaining psychiatric care, and participate in other efforts onbehalf of Dallas Catholic Relief and the Cuban community in Dallas. I researched the background of the Connells and foundthat they had a son, Michael born in 1935, a daughter, Colleen born in 1943, a son deceased on the same day as his birth in1950, and daughters born in 1952 and 1955. In 1963, Lucille B. Connell had been raising young children for 28 years, was 49 years old and at that time had daughters ages 8 and 11 years at home, yet she still must have had the time and the interest tobe such an active and committed participant in these events outside of her home, along with the simultaneous strains of goingthrough a divorce and the uncertainty that process would probably bring to a mother of young children.

Yesterday, I found that the Connell's son, Michael was a 1961 Harvard medical school graduate and was working at USPHS hospital in New Orleans at least by 1966 and that his specialty was psychiatric medicine.

books.google.com/books?id=nDwDAAAAIAAJ1973 - Snippet view - More editionsSuicideis not so bad For better or for worse suicide is apparently no longer the social disgrace it used to be, according to one survey done by a Tulane University researcher. Dr. Michael L. Connell posed the statement: "A person has a right to take his own life" to be marked true or false by a randomly selected group of 150 individuals. Of those polled there were equal numbers of college students, college graduates....

I am truly sorry for not seeing your previous post, Tom.There is a lot of water under the bridge regarding this area.To sum it up, my belief is that the Texas State Fairgrounds, which were a location for the Special Services Bureau, and an integral part of the Dallas Police structure for 1963 and beyond, and then Cuban Relief, the Connell's seem to have the possibility for some type of connection. The Cuban anesthesiologist at Parkland, Godinez, and Fr. Machann. The State Fair is also home to a lot of subplots, Jack Ruby and Larry Crafard, the "How Hollywood Makes Movies,"crowd that came to Dallas, circa 1963. I, in response to your question/comment regarding "conflicts of interest" re the Warren Commission would state that there are some murky areas.The greater sin was the fact that as Chief Curry said ""We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle, and never did. Nobody's yet been able to put him in that building with a gun in his hand."This was the last thing anyone was saying.

Hello, Robert. An unusual family, the Connell couple and their children, hiding in plain sight. Do you know of any other instance of anIvy League university graduate, successful in business, a non-Hispanic, changing his surname from his father's to his mother's, of ofa first wife's obit claiming she is the widow of her ex-husband? Such are the circumstances of Lucille Bass Connell's second husband and his first wife.

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It seems likely HSCA investigator Gaton Fonzi, as far as an unfettered investigation of Lucille Bass Connell Light and C. Lee Connell, was up against roadblocks he had no way of knowing existed, circa mid 1970's. At some point, the Connell family had enough skeletons in delicate closets for their background details to become a closed matter. It could have been as early as 29 November, 1963, oras late as circa 1980. But it is sensitive enough, considering the details, to keep a permanent lid on it.

......Prior to founding ASF, Colleen was a career Foreign Service Officer in the Department of State’s Economic Bureau. She served five overseas tours of duty over nearly two decades, along with her husband Matt Meyer, formerly a U.S. intelligence officer. She often says that the leap from Foreign Service to fitting saddles is not as random as it might seem, as the tasks are essentially the same: first identify the fundamental nature of the problem, then work out how the problem might be solved to everyone’s satisfaction.

books.google.com/books?id=hjyPAAAAMAAJUnited States. Dept. of State - 1984 - Snippet view - More editions1 The annual written examination for the Foreign Service will be given this year on Saturday, December 1. ... Service class have completed their training, with 19 designated political officers, 13 as consular officers, and 6 each as administrative and economic officers. ...Matthew A. Meyer, Joseph M. Pomper, Fredericka A. Schmadel, Peter S. Sherman, Sandra A. Stevens, Marc J. Susser, Joseph B. Torres.

Meyer and Connell Light's daughter, Cynthia C. Connell, are mentioned on the same page.:

Lucille Bass Connell Light and her family evidently experienced personal upheaval asa result of Lucille's involvement with Sylvia Odio and Dallas Family Relief. Were Lucille'ssubsequent marriage to a Dartmouth alumni who changed his surname from his father's,Lapidus, to his mother's, Light, and the late marriage of Lucille's youngest daughter toCIA agent Matt Meyer, a bug resulting from the botched FBI, WC, and HSCA, and the CIA'sobvious outright interference, and Lucille's Harvard Med. School son's mid 1960's employment with USPHS Hospital in New Orleans bugs or features resulting from Lucille'sDallas intrigue.

Why did Mrs. Robert L. Castorr steer Lucille's letters to Sylvia Odio, mailed from Boston,to Lt. George Butler of the Dallas P.D.?

More on that question, here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=5347&#entry262822Father McChann and Odios Started by William Kelly, Nov 08 2005

575]books.google.com/books?isbn=1565540298Ray La Fontaine, Mary La Fontaine - 1996 - Preview - More editionsInstinctively, I dislike Sylvia.44 Reading a few lines of Marianne Sullivan's Kennedy Ripples: A True Love Story, you know you've entered a new zone. The book, though published (in 1994) by a small San Clemente press, could glibly be called ...

If there was ever a lawyer who deserved some attention, especially so close to the 50th Anniversary, one would think Leon Jaworski might qualify.

Below is a little food for thought.

Chicago Tribune (IL) - December 10, 1982Leon Jaworski, who helped force Nixon to quit in Watergate scandalWIMBERLY, Tex. -- Leon Jaworski, 77, the special prosecutor who helped force the resignation of President Richard M. Nixon, died Thursday while cutting wood at his ranch in the central Texas hill country he loved."He apparently had a massive heart attack out in the woods" in the late afternoon, said Justice of the Peace Sonny Gold, who went to the scene and pronounced him dead of natural causes. He did not order an autopsy."He was out with his ranch foreman, Jon Clayton, and they were cutting wood", Gold said. "John said he just keeled over. John tried to give him CPR [cardiopulmonary resuscitation], but he couldn't help him One of them was sawing and one was loading, I don't know which."MR. JAWORSKI had not returned to the courtroom since 1974, when he won the tape recordings that tried Nixon to the Watergate scandal."You just don't argue another case after you've argued 'the United States versus Nixon' before the Supreme Court," he said.As special prosecutor, he asked the court to order Nixon to surrender subpoenaed tapes the embattled president had been withholding.Mr. Jaworski won a unanimous decision on July 24 and Nixon gave up the tapes. They revealed to Senate investigators the president's long involvement in the cover-up of the burglary at Democratic national headquarters by members of his re-election staff. They also showed myriad other "dirty tricks" by Nixon loyalists.Fifteen days later, Nixon resigned.THE TAPES battle was the apex of Mr. Jaworski's legal career, which began when he was certified to practice law in Texas at age 19 and spanned more than 55 years. He was a partner in Fulbright & Jaworski in Houston, one of the nation's five largest law firms.Although he considered Watergate his ultimate legal triumph, Mr. Jaworski also was:Chief of the war crimes trial section of the U.S. Army in Europe after Words War II.Special assistant U.S. attorney general [1962-65] selected by Robert Kennedy to prosecute Mississippi Gov. Ross Barnett for defying court orders to admit James Meredith to the University of Mississippi as the school's first black student.President of the American Bar Association.Special counsel [1977-78] for the House Judiciary Committee's investigation of influence peddling by South Korea among members of Congress.Mr. Jaworski said in an interview he felt the respect he won from the young people of America was a reward for his work on Watergate."I NEVER CEASE having young people come up to me almost daily when I'm publicly exposed and coming, wanting to say hello, and they'll almost invariably say, 'I just want to thank you for what you did,' " he said."It's the young people this has meant so much to, more so than the older people. To the younger people, it was really something where they felt matters had gotten rotten to the core.'Of Nixon, he once said: "What really was terrible in Nixon's case was the shoddy plotting that went on, and you know it was almost like an underground element meeting to determine what to do."I think what really hurt him with the American people more than anything else was that he lied to them. He got up repeatedly and made statements that later turned out to be untrue. And I think this really toppled him."He was disappointed in the success through public appearances and books by such Watergate figures as John Ehrlichman, former White House chief of staff; John Dean, former White House counsel, and G. Gordon Liddy, break-in leader."HERE'S A MAN like Liddy who's become a great person of celebrity, people running from all over everywhere who want to hear him, and he says a lot of things that don't even make a good sense," Mr. Jaworski said.Charles Colson, who turned into a public religious figure, won Mr. Jaworski's respect. "I think this man has probably turned out to be one of the best, if not the best of all, who paid his penalty, served his time and became a good citizen," he said.Mr. Jaworski grew up in rural Texas, on a farm near Seguin and later in Waco, one of four children of Joseph and Marie Jaworski, who died when he was 3. In his memoirs, he recalled his father as a man who spoke several languages, preached to evangelical congregations in German, played a variety of musical instruments and instilled in his children a desire to achieveSurvivors include his wife, Jeannette; two daughters, Joanie Moncrief and Claire Draper; a son, Joseph; four grandchildren, a brother and a sister

Robert: note in the book The Man Who Knew Too Much [1993 edition] p.799see footnotes28. Jaworski background early ‘60s: Fred Powledge, “Texas Investigation into Kennedy Death Put Off Indefinitely,” The New York Times (December 7, 1963):“Texas Is Under Consideration for Robert Kennedy’s Position,” The New York Times (August 24, 1964): Ted Lewis: “Capitol Stuff” New York Daily News(November 6, 1964): Linda Charlton, “Bar’s President-Elect,” The New York Times (February 25, 1970): Researcher Peter Dale Scott noted in his unpublished Dallas Conspiracy (1971) that Jaworski served on the board of the Houston Bank of the Southwest in 1968 with D.B. Marshall of the Marshall Foundation and Ernest Cockrell of the San Jacinto Fund, both CIA conduits.Former Texas journalist “Lonnie” Hudkins at an interview on May 12, 1976 brought up Jaworski’s name and said “Jaworski had a Mexico City law partner who’s never been heard since [the JFK assassination]. The little hotel where Oswald stayed there, his Mexican partner was in the same block or building.” Charlton, “Bar’s President-Elect,” noted that Jaworski maintained offices in both Houston and Mexico.29. Jaworski and Thornberry: Fred P. Graham, "Johnson Texas Lawyer Checked Thornberry for Panel of A.B.A.,” The New York Times (August 3, 1968).30. Watergate and Jaworski: Ronald J. Ostrow, “Staff Distrusted Jaworski, Talked of Tailing Him, Book Says,” The New York Times (November 8, 1973): 31. Jaworski and Bush: James P. Sterba, “Jaworski Says He Cleared Bush,” The New York Times (November 8, 1976), p. 28.32. Leon Jaworski in World War II file in Time-Life archive, Leon Jaworski Biographical Data, (November 1, 1973).