The past few days have involved MS revealing he's changed the login info on STR's Twitter, and he plans to use the STR social media accounts as his personal pages. It's time this discussion moved to the forum for all to see.

MS claims the Twitter account "became [his] over time," and also said he considered the STR Youtube to be his personal channel. Although still using our name and URLs, he changed the email and password associated with the Twitter account. MS also said openly that he would not re-open the account even if the community voted in favor of doing so. As of right now, the Youtube login information remains unchanged.

Last week, MS created a thread notifying us that his videos uploaded to the STR Youtube page would carry his name instead of STR's, and he would no longer link to this site. The thread has now been locked by MS after two IRC discussions reveal he has not been honest about the full scope and intent of his changes to our social media accounts.

I want to make it clear that I in no way mean ill will to MS. For months now, he's been posting a lot of content to Twitter and Youtube. I thank him for his contributions, and it is his activity that has encouraged me to become more involved recently. Others have not been using these much at all, so I understand his frustration.

Many of MS' forum posts lately have been calling for more activity and to help out on social media. I'm in the US and a night owl, so on Monday night, when Wildstar was set to launch it's F2P client, I asked MS for the login info so that I could post about it when it went live. This was the first time he told anyone that he had changed the login info and considered it to be his personal account.

I backed off at the time, since he was visibly upset.

Earlier today, MS used the STR Twitter to post personal opinions on the Oregon school shooting. Several of us agreed that regardless of our opinions, it was not an appropriate post on an account representing the STR as an organization.

MS responded by removing the STR name from the account. For the time being, Anubis has removed MS' administrator privileges to the website.

I would like to hear from people on what they think we should do moving forward.

Ok, this has been a very long night. Bear with me while I explain where we are now.

I have spent around 3 hours chatting with MS tonight since this all came about. The account in question has now been fully restored to how it was - a group account branded accordingly, and I am able to access it again. It's become very clear during the conversation surrounding this issue tonight that there are issues on both sides that need to be addressed, and now that we have the account restored we're going to do just that. Likewise, administrative access has been restored, as we've reached an understanding and I feel that MS can still be trusted with these privileges as a result.

After MS left IRC earlier I think we all agreed that we could all understand why he might be frustrated with the present situation and be driven to take action in the circumstances, given all the effort he has put in over the past year - which we're very grateful for. I think we all agreed that the problem is not with any frustration, rather:

1. The changing of the account login details so that no-one else could access it, silently.I was not aware of this myself until tonight, admittedly, and this disturbed me greatly. They were set up as group details, and as far as I am concerned any change to them should have been presented to the group. I have told MS this.

I understand why it was done - specifically, MS was the only one using the account and also (unbeknownst to myself) he did not have access to the email notifications being generated against the group address. MS therefore did not see this as an issue, as he is the only one who has ever used the account, but we've agreed now that going forward if there is ever a reason to change information like this it will be raised before any action is taken. It was the wrong thing to do silently, and not how we do things. I will be exploring ways through email server management to make sure that these things can't be done silently in future.

2. The rebranding of the account as MS' personal accountThis was born out of sheer upset and anger following the argument in IRC earlier. I would hope that we can all forgive this, as with everything having calmed down a lot MS has changed everything back. I should stress that this was entirely voluntary on his part, as given the changes which had been made I had no means open to me to reclaim the account short of petitioning Twitter, so I have not forcibly seized anything back. It is difficult to admit you're wrong over something like this and correct it - so thank you to MS for allowing cooler heads to prevail here.

Moving ForwardAs I said above, there are very clearly some big issues surrounding ownership of the Twitter account in particular, usage of it content wise, and potentially what the group wants to do from this point. These things have never been discussed, so this is understandable in hindsight. Here's my take:

Management of Twitter. From my perspective, MS has been doing a fantastic job on this front and I am happy to let him continue to manage the Twitter in the group's name provided the content is appropriate and we can maintain a situation where several of us continue to have access to the account, as we have since the beginning. If we decide we don't want him to do this, we need to look at ways to fairly break off that relationship, without involving him losing all the content he's generated over the last year.

We do, however, clearly need to define some rules about what is appropriate to post under the group name. MS has had a disclaimer on the profile saying that all Tweets are his own views, but that information doesn't pull through to the website. In my view we should keep any political topics well away from our social media feeds, no matter what they may be, to eliminate the problem. That's ultimately what this has stemmed from today, and I strongly feel that we as a group shouldn't be associated with any views/parties/etc.

How does everyone else feel with the above? I think MS would be happiest at this point if he continued to run the account solo. Unless there is a reason to take it off him, do people want to interfere in that? Could anyone do it better? Likewise, are there certain types of content people are unhappy with there or would like to see more of?

I hope we can all just put tonight behind us and move on from here. Clearly there are issues that have been bubbling away for some time, and they've spilled over badly tonight. We all make mistakes though, as most of us have here in the past, and ultimately what is important is that we've managed to get everything resolved. We need to discuss and resolve the issues we have, put tonight behind us, and try to get things agreed clearly as a group which mean we're never in this position again...

Very clearly what has gone on tonight is unacceptable, but let's try and address the issues rationally and maturely, rather than casting blame and creating more friction.

Finally, to note, until we've discussed these issues and drawn common conclusions, we won't be expanding access to the account or anything of the sort. Likewise, MS, if you could avoid posting about anything political/controversial until such time.

"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Kondratev wrote:The past few days have involved MS revealing he's changed the login info on STR's Twitter, and he plans to use the STR social media accounts as his personal pages.

This is, and isn't true. I have used Twitter as both my personal account and the main account representing STR for most of the year. How often do you read it? My tweeting habits are no different now than they were last week, last month or 3 months ago. The page still had the STR name on them (up until you upset me tonight), I still promoted STR for us and I continued to put our name out there. What your saying paints a picture of me taking control of twitter and using it for my personal gain which is just not true. You also keep saying "social media accounts". It's one account. Twitter.

Kondratev wrote:MS claims the Twitter account "became [his] over time," and also said he considered the STR Youtube to be his personal channel. Although still using our name and URLs, he changed the email and password associated with the Twitter account. MS also said openly that he would not re-open the account even if the community voted in favor of doing so.

Yes, but let me try and explain. The Twitter account was created (as were all of them) with the intention of a group account which the group would contribute to, build up and help extend our reach. The Twitter account remained open throughout the year for people to do that but as nobody else but me was using it or ever showed an interest in doing so, I took it upon myself to personally manage it - all this time it was left open. Rather than post like an advertising bot or robot, I wanted to take a personal approach to it. I've used it as a human being. There's only so much *STR* only stuff you can post when you're struggling to get people to talk here.After managing it by myself all this time, making over a thousand tweets and gaining over 300 followers (all under STR, but with M.Steiner on the page as well) I thought it made sense to change the login details. By this point I saw it as my account (but still representing STR, I have NEVER stopped doing this) and changing it to my own e-mail address which meant I could actually receive notifications which I wasn't able to do before.

Now after a year of building that account up by myself, with nobody else's help. I wasn't happy just to open that back up to you when you've contributed absolutely nothing to it. I can understand that some of us are really busy which is one of the reasons I've used my time to do this stuff. But if anyone had really wanted to help me run Twitter you're telling me you couldn't have made a single tweet per week or something? But nobody but me all year? But now that I've spent all this time building it up you want access to it? Yeah. That annoyed me and wasn't going to agree to it.

YouTube - Everything on YouTube (besides a couple of videos which BD very kindly put up a while ago) was recorded and uploaded by me. All 100+ of them and counting. Nobody else but BD has contributed a single video to it. I had SL33PY transfer ownership to me because I was uncomfortable continuing to provide content to a channel which only I was using and whilst this place became increasingly less active (including the owner of the channel himself). I wanted to make sure I had full control over my content. Nothing more. Yes I consider the channel mine when 99% of the content on there is mine, but I'm still using my content to promote STR. Others have been welcome to start contributing to the channel as well and have been all year (and I have openly asked several times in the past for offers of help there yet have received none other than what I said above with BD). YouTube managers are still as they are. Nothing has changed. If the group suddenly wants to start contributing to it now and on a regular basis? Then we can talk and the channel can either become the channel it was meant to be (with content from lots of different users here and not just me) or I can rename the channel to MS, my content can go with me and we'll have a new channel which starts off as it was intended to. Right now? Everyone who had access to YouTube, has access to YouTube. I have changed nothing with YouTube. Only Twitter.

Kondratev wrote:Last week, MS created a thread notifying us that his videos uploaded to the STR Youtube page would carry his name instead of STR's, and he would no longer link to this site. The thread has now been locked by MS after two IRC discussions reveal he has not been honest about the full scope and intent of his changes to our social media accounts.

This paints a wrong picture as well and people (I hope) can see that if they've read what I wrote there. I openly explained why I was doing it but to repeat: Every single gaming video I posted on YouTube has linked here but whilst Twitter & YouTube have been growing and growing for us (due to my efforts, nobody else's), the site and forums have become less and less active as time has gone on. It made more sense to me to point my YouTube videos to @ShatteredStar97 / M.Steiner STR which is heavily active and always gaining followers, than the forum which has been getting worse by the day. This was only until things picked up here. Drawing people to a forum where people are posting & engaging with each other less and less does not set off a good impression. Imo. I also locked the thread as I posted a new one asking for imput, and wanted comments all in the one place rather than spread across 2 different threads. I added a big message at the top of the thread to tell people to please see that other thread. The thread was not locked "after two IRC discussions revealed" either. I locked it as soon as I put the new thread up to divert people there. What are you looking at poke at here?? - You say my videos would carry my name instead of STR too?

What are you talking about? Every single one of these has STR in it and up until you pissed me off tonight, the STR twitter they link to under my name had STR branding ALL over it (and does again).

So we've discovered two things here - You rarely read twitter otherwise you would know that I already use Twitter as my personal account (within reason, everything I've usually posted there are things we have used the forum for - gaming, music, tv, film etc) and have been doing for months. You're putting it out there that I changed the login first and then claimed I was going to start using it as my personal account too. This is incorrect.Why are you taking issue with it now? Because you pay so little attention to what I do over there that you've only just seen? Because I openly told you no after you asked for access to it a year after I've built it up by myself? It doesn't stop the fact that this is how I have always run the account. The account has always been used on a personal level by me. I chose to do it that way so the account was given more love and attention. Absolutely nothing has changed with my use of it. The only thing that has changed is the login, and only after a year of it being all me.

And #2. You haven't actually watched my YouTube videos you're making those claims at otherwise you would see I never removed STR from them. Please get your facts straight before you come here informing other people of things which are not true.

Kondratev wrote:Many of MS' forum posts lately have been calling for more activity and to help out on social media. I'm in the US and a night owl, so on Monday night, when Wildstar was set to launch it's F2P client, I asked MS for the login info so that I could post about it when it went live. This was the first time he told anyone that he had changed the login info and considered it to be his personal account.

See above for some of this but I've had the M.Steiner disclaimer on there (that any opinions posted were my own and nobody else's) for months, and the STR banner has had M.Steiner on it for quite a while now too. The account has always been used as my personal account as well, the random examples above show that and anybody who pays any attention to me on Twitter has been able to see that throughout the year. It's only becoming an issue now because you asked for access to it a year later. There was no need to post about WildStar either because I was already going to do so, as I have done with Battletech and lots of other things. I've been doing it all year. Sometimes you come on IRC and you link things which have already been talked about days before, already been posted on Twitter, or to the forum. You seem rarely up to speed.

You didn't even have the launch day right until a few hours before and after I had already brought it up and told people it was going free to play. I am always on the ball. I knew exactly when it was launching and had a tab open all evening with the countdown to it. There's nobody here (except anyone who works in the industry and has inside knowledge) who follows the gaming world as closely as I do, except for BD. I have also made made nearly as many posts on Twitter in this past year of managing it than you have made here on the forums in 11 years. I have it under control.

Your offer of help is appreciated as I said to you on IRC but Twitter & YouTube are our most active sites right now. I made them that way. Your efforts would be much better spent elsewhere in areas which actually need help.

Kondratev wrote:Earlier today, MS used the STR Twitter to post personal opinions on the Oregon school shooting. Several of us agreed that regardless of our opinions, it was not an appropriate post on an account representing the STR as an organization.

MS responded by removing the STR name from the account.

The single tweet for reference, which I have now removed:

"Awful news of the #UCCShooting. Prayers go out to those affected There's a reason we don't see this in the UK though, just saying..."

Honestly, I can see your point here (and just to note, I have only ever made a handful of political posts throughout the year and what lead to me adding the M.Steiner disclaimer to the profile page back in the spring). We'd already had a disagreement on the login status the other night though and when you brought it up again tonight (after I had made other suggestions on the forum which nobody has replied to, but what's new?) whilst publically asking me to remove that tweet, you upset me. In any other circumstances I'd have removed that tweet then and there, no question, but I thought you were just looking for something to pick at. I would not have a problem agreeing never to post anything political on there (despite there being a disclaimer that any opinions posted on there were mine), as I do understand that they get fed to the main site feed which I hadn't thought of. I am sorry for that. Out of anger and upset I removed myself from the situation (IRC) and removed the STR branding from the Twitter. I would never have done it otherwise.

If the Twitter account had been run as it was intended to be run (as a group and with the group contributing to it and building it up), I would never have changed the login to my own. Why would I ever do that? After a year with every single tweet, video, picture, opinion on there being posted by me? Yes I consider it my account now and was not happy to just open that back up to you after all the work I've put into it. You can't use that argument (that it was intended to be a group accessed account) when the account has never been used used as such. Is this my fault? No. Nobody has ever batted an eyelid when I've been the only one to use it all year though but when I change the login you're going to cause a stink about it? Then why has the group never used the account with the intention it was created with? Why has it all been me?

The fact that my admin access here came into question upsets me greatly too. I can completely understand Anny's position there, but I have never been out to damage this place and only did some of the things tonight after being pushed to the limit and with the account which is full of my stuff. Nobody else's. People think I'm capable of doing something on this side after all that I've done for this group? Is that what people think of me now? I would never do that. Why would I want to hurt the place and the people I've been working like mad over? I'm glad to see this is not a concern now.

@ShatteredStar97 has been restored under our name (with my name on the banner and in the disclaimer along with STR, like before) and I will continue to use it as I have been doing all year, solo, personally, but always for STR gain. I'll agree not to post anything too political or controversial on there and as I always try to do anyway, I'll try to consider everything I tweet before I tweet it. I have also given Anny access to it but it remains linked to my e-mail account so I can actually receive notifications. If this is not enough and the group would rather try and force me to reopen it after showing no interest in helping me build it all year, the only alternative I can see is for me to rename the account to "M.Steiner of STR" and each of us who wants to work at twitter has an account of our own there "[Username]-STR" which we use to build a bigger group presence with, through a network of accounts. I would rather not do that but I will if that would make people happier. I suggested this in my other thread the other day. Nobody has replied. Or if people don't want me to take sole control of the account (which as I keep saying, I have all year even before I changed the login), would you rather I rename the account completely and free up the handle? You guys make a new under account with it, one which you can manage on your own and without my imput. Do we really want to go down that route?Rather than anything to do with twitter though.. We have other areas that need work. Facebook is only active due to my tweets being fed across, the main site usually only gets posted on by me, forum activity has been declining by the day (and we'll ignore current activity as this is always boosted during polls and drama), and the Twitch account has rarely been used all year. These are the areas I've been calling for activity in and help to build up like I've done elsewhere. Let's do something about those eh?

This whole mess has really upset me tonight and I'm sorry to those of you I've upset as well, especially after being nominated for Arbiter and building up trust and respect over all these years. I came so close to leaving tonight and just washing my hands of it all but I love this place and I have not put all that hard work in for nothing. If my actions have caused irreversible damage in some of your eyes, to my reputation here or the trust you had in me then maybe it's for the best if I do but that would probably hurt me more than it would anyone else. I hope it doesn't come to that but seeing some of the things said about me and the way you have portrayed both what I've said and done has really offended me when everything I've been doing has been for the group. Not me. All I did was change the login of the account that only I use and the group has showed no interest in helping me build or run all year. People have been happy for me to do that all year whilst they've gone about their own business. I've been happy to run it and I honestly didn't see it as an issue. I just did not want to reopen the account and give you access to it after all this time of it being centered on and focused on by me and my stuff. If the group wanted a group account, the group should have used it as such, as was intended. We're not about to start now. I hope people take the time to read this reply through (sorry about its length) and do not just go off what you have said as fact. So much of it is untrue, uninformed, unfair and just looking to cause drama where there is none, at least on my part.

Now how about we work at improving those other areas I mention, you let me get on with what I have been doing all year and we get back to doing what we're all supposed to be here for. Playing games together? Can we please move past this?

"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,The lone and level sands stretch far away.

In terms of email notifications, wouldn't it be possible to set up an email address here that can auto-forward emails to those who are helping to maintain the STR accounts? Something of a similar nature was done on a website that I used to be an admin at (though the forwarding was for different reasons), and it worked pretty well there. But I don't know how things work here, even if it is the same server company that hosted the old SSC server (how long has it been since I had any sort of admin access? ). I have a feeling Anny can probably answer that, once he's gotten some rest (/me checks the stash of tranquilizer darts...).

Thunderbird wrote:In terms of email notifications, wouldn't it be possible to set up an email address here that can auto-forward emails to those who are helping to maintain the STR accounts? Something of a similar nature was done on a website that I used to be an admin at (though the forwarding was for different reasons), and it worked pretty well there. But I don't know how things work here, even if it is the same server company that hosted the old SSC server (how long has it been since I had any sort of admin access? ). I have a feeling Anny can probably answer that, once he's gotten some rest (/me checks the stash of tranquilizer darts...).

Yes, we absolutely can. That's something I'm going to be looking at.

The account was setup against a shared email address (twitter@shatteredstar.org), but did not have email forwarding setup against it. That's my fault, as I was under the impression that MS had access to that account.

I ideally want to put us in a position where the account is tied back up to that email address as a group account, with email forwarding setup to enable MS to have access to whatever he needs from there. I'll hopefully be looking to do that this weekend.

"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

I agree with Anubis. The two key issues are your dishonesty around the account details, and your position that your contributions to a group effort entitle you to total ownership of that effort.

If a person chooses to dedicate their time to an organization, they still have an obligation to be open about their work and respect the laws and values of the organization, regardless of how much time and effort they personally invest.

Community projects do not ever become personal projects just because some people invest more than others. Community projects by their very nature will always have a disparity in terms of personal investment.

You silently changed the login information on an account designed to be accessible to all, and you didn't tell anyone about this until Monday. Even after extended discussions over the course of the week, only five other people knew about it. I made this post in order to prompt a community discussion about what to do.

Nobody has objected to you posting about buying a new joystick or the arrival of a pre-ordered game. We object to your claim that these posts make it your account.

The simple fact is that you had no right to change login info without informing anyone. You have no right to present our social media accounts as "M.Steiner, but also representing the STR."

The accounts were specifically designed to belong to everyone, as you point out yourself.

MS, you know I've been trying to handle this as diplomatically as possible for the past week. Your anger around activity issues has been palpable in this discussion as well as earlier forum posts, and I understand that you're only trying to help grow our community.

My post was not a personal attack against you, but simply a summary of events posted for the benefit of people who are not active on IRC. Others who were there are welcome to comment if they believe anything I've said is untrue.

Kondratev wrote:You have no right to present our social media accounts as "M.Steiner, but also representing the STR."

So you're disagreeing with the way I have been running it this entire time then? Why are you only saying something now?

Kondratev wrote:My post was not a personal attack against you, but simply a summary of events posted for the benefit of people who are not active on IRC. Others who were there are welcome to comment if they believe anything I've said is untrue.

I see it as one and a lot of what you have said above is untrue and twisting my words. Are you not going to reply to any of what I have quoted and specifically responded to you about?

"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,The lone and level sands stretch far away.

If we keep dwelling over the past, nothing is going to get solved and we're just going to run into the same problems. I think it's time to stop looking back and start looking forward to what we can do to make sure history doesn't repeat itself.

I have absolutely no <censored> idea what is going on here, and I don't even want to know.

I saw in some other thread MS changed the twitter name or whatever over to himself.

That sounded good. Not a single one of you <censored>, me included, was posting anything, making any videos, or generally doing anything with those accounts.

It seemed right he'd take ownership of everything he was doing. Everything that was "Shattered Star's" was not only pretty much, but literally entirely his private stream. It made sense he should own it, and do whatever he wanted with it.

This isn't some ideal struggle for justice. The man put in the time, he owns it entirely, and can and should be able to do with it whatever he goddamn wishes.

When all of you, including me, start posting videos and content to these streams, we'll talk about a group effort with an open door policy for shared contribution.

Till then, I don't even want to see this being discussed. Somebody close this <censored> thread, and you NEVER SPEAK OF IT AGAIN.

@Mechanus • I hate to agree with BD about anything, but his post is pretty much spot on

I have tried to be polite about this and explained my reasonings but his post sums up my feelings entirely.

Let's put this to bed already and enough with the drama. Have we not had enough of that over the years?Here's how it's going to go.

Either:The existing Twitter & YouTube pages continue to be run by myself as they have been all year. I will continue to run them as I see fit (within reason) and fill them with my own content to represent STR, but will also be used as my own personal accounts too. Again, as they have been all year. I haven't just started doing this...There has, and will be no change to the way I operate those accounts. I have been running them this way the whole time I've been managing them and nobody has ever complained. A couple of political tweets aside which I will agree not to post in the future. The accounts will remain linked to the main site navigation and feed and the account will remain locked to me, but with Anny being able to access it for site related stuff too.

When the group wants and is in a position to contribute to a YouTube channel & Twitter page together and in a group effort as intended, we will open 2 new accounts which will be used with that intention from the get go. Anybody who wants access to them and is prepared to work on them can have access to them and these pages will become the new official accounts to represent STR and I will provide you with the artwork to brand them with. I will then rename the accounts I've been building up by myself (and which nobody gave a crap about helping me with but were perfectly happy for me to manage them single handedly, until a year later when I changed the login) to M.Steiner. Until that point we go on as we have all year.

If some of you want to go ahead and make that move now, then fine. We'll do it. (I would wonder why people are up for doing that now but not before, even after I had asked, but whatever, we won't argue) But PLEASE make sure you are willing and able to actually do it. YouTube & Twitter are the most active sites we have right now but all through my doing. If we're going to create group maintained and accessed accounts then make sure you use them as such. If we pull the existing accounts from the site and I rebrand them to MS but then for the group to hardly ever uses the new ones or match my output, you will only be causing damage to this place and undoing all the hard work I've put in over the last year. If after a year you now want group maintained accounts with equal shared contributions which the group is all going to work at building. Make them. But make sure you use them that way and that you use them full stop, and don't just let 1 person build them up by themselves whilst everyone else sits back. Otherwise? Help in the areas that we need help in, let me get back to what it is I've been doing all year and let's play some bloody games together.

Please make your decision and let's stop creating issues where there need not be any. Let me know what I'm doing, there are videos I want to do.

"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,The lone and level sands stretch far away.

MS and I just spent almost three hours on IRC discussing the points made in this thread. It's now clear there's been a lot of talking past each other.

What we found out is that different people had totally different expectations for the Twitter and Youtube accounts in question. These contradictory expectations resulted in MS trying to maintain an impossible balance between personal content and community content.

In the end, we agreed that one solution is for MS to maintain the current account as a strictly personal Twitter page. A new, freely accessible Twitter will be created to represent STR in the pluralistic fashion originally envisioned when we established a social media presence last year.

If there's only one person talking, it's impossible to balance "personal" and "community" because there is no community.

This solution will allow MS to maintain his followers while no longer being burdened with the responsibility of being unofficial brand representative for the entire STR community.

At the same time, the new account will encourage all members to let each other know what and when they are playing, broadcast important forum news to a wider audience, and share other content relevant to us as a gaming community.

Anyone else's brainstorming or opinions on the future of our social media presence is most welcome.

I still think the best solution is just to agree content guidelines and let MS do his thing.

If we make a separate community account, who is going to contribute it? What will it gain us as a group? MS has already said to me (unless this has now changed) that he's happy to keep running the account as he has been as a representative for the group. He has been doing a very good job, bar a couple of exceptions which I've mentioned above.

If we want Twitter to continue to be an effective channel for us, I would strongly suggest that making a separate account that has one post a year is not the way to go. I really think that the best thing for us to to maintain it as a representative group account, but agree that MS is running it.

As a note, I think the problem with the switching of the account over to MS' private account is not that there's no argument for it, it's just that it was done silently without anyone being told. Until we decide otherwise it's still a group account, so until that time stuff like that shouldn't be done without the group being told - especially given we're integrating it on the main website.

"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

To add my comments to Kon's on what we have discussed on IRC this morning/afternoon:

We'd start fresh and do things right this time, if the group actually wants to put that into action this time around. I have set us up a new Twitter account at @STRGaming97 and kitted it out with STR imagery and labeled it as the "Official Twitter page for The Shattered Star (STR) gaming community.". Its location is labeled as worldwide and it links to our main site. This account would be tied to twitter@shatteredstar.org (currently verified through mine until Anny is around) and be used & managed by the community as a whole, as was originally intended. Anybody who wants access to it would be given it and people are encouraged to do so. - I'm sure there would be some of you that use it more than others and this is to be expected, the important thing being is to make sure it is always run AS a group and that it ACTUALLY gets used full stop. This never happened before which is why we've come to even discuss this a year later.

The existing Twitter which I have been using by myself all year and is filled with my own personal content would then get branded to M.Steiner. Still as a STR member, but not the official representation of the group on Twitter. Main site navigation links and twitter feed would then be switched from that account to the new official one. - Thinking all of the above over... May actually be the best option.

I say all this, but my previous offer still stands and we do not need to use that other account I have created if people don't want. YouTube & Twitter are as active as they are because of my efforts and my efforts alone and the reason it has ended up that way is because nobody else but me has been using them. The community made that choice and let them get that way. I personally made sure they got some love. I am perfectly happy to continue running the account as I have been doing and as I see fit, as the main representation of STR for us and with my name on there too, but only as the sole user of the account - as the group themselves has allowed to let happen. Me locking the account to myself just ensured it stayed that way. To come to me a year later and claim that they were meant for the group and to be used as a group, when the group has not been using them in that way is not fair. If the group wanted a group ran account. The group should have run a group account. Together. As a group. We're not about to turn that account into one now a year later and the reason the login details were changed silently was because there didn't seem any point in making it public and making a big issue out of something I didn't see as one. There was no malice there, or dishonesty intended. I have been the only person to use it all year, everything on there is mine and nobody else has ever shown an interest in helping me run it. People have been happy to go about their daily lives whilst I've been doing that throughout the year and I was just going about my business too, why make it public? I didn't see it as a problem as I say. Just changing the login to an account which only I use. Not worth mentioning, I thought

If the community can promise a new Twitter will be used with the intention they are meant for then that is what the group should do. Just please make sure this doesn't happen again, that they are used as a group and that people do actually use them. I don't wanna turn and look at a new official Twitter in X amount of time and see that is has ended up the same was as some of our other areas where I've been calling for activity in and haven't been able to single handledly do something about them myself. Or, as I say, we can continue as we are and people let me get on with it but the account will remain closed. I'll agree not to post anything too controversial (which is as best I can do other than setting out a list of things I can and cannot post about on an account that I alone use. That would be ridiculous) and other peoples efforts can then be spent in the areas we actually need help in rather than making all these changes to something I already have under control.

As for YouTube, I think that is best left linked to the main site for now and I have no issue continuing with that as I have been doing on my own. My YouTube videos will continue to be linked to my Twitter for now (I am perfectly willing to re-link them back to the site and forums when things pick up again, and will continue to have both my name and STR on them. If/when the time comes that other members are prepared and able to provide content to a group ran YouTube channel as we had intended, we can make a new one which will be run as a group from the get go like said new Twitter. Until then? It makes sense to leave my content up there.

I'm happy with either. I was always in support of group run accounts and was always prepared to work with others on them. This never happened with the existing accounts though. It has been all me and a year has now passed. We're not about to try and turn those accounts back into what they were originally intended to be used as but there is no reason we can't start a fresh and do it right this time. I would have to wonder why people couldn't have done that before but we won't dwell on that. I only plead again (don't wanna sound like a broken record) that if the group decides to do this, that the group makes sure they do this time

"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!"Nothing beside remains. Round the decayOf that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,The lone and level sands stretch far away.

Anubis wrote:I still think the best solution is just to agree content guidelines and let MS do his thing.

If we make a separate community account, who is going to contribute it? What will it gain us as a group? MS has already said to me (unless this has now changed) that he's happy to keep running the account as he has been as a representative for the group. He has been doing a very good job, bar a couple of exceptions which I've mentioned above.

If we want Twitter to continue to be an effective channel for us, I would strongly suggest that making a separate account that has one post a year is not the way to go. I really think that the best thing for us to to maintain it as a representative group account, but agree that MS is running it.

Any thoughts on this from anyone? Especially given conversations have apparently gone on in IRC supporting another account? Unless people are willing to step forward and commit to contributing to that regularly then the idea is a complete non-starter anyway, and that's before even getting to whether what activity we could put together could rival what MS has been doing.

MS is just going to be carrying on as he has been for now, as I've asked him to. It does kind of feel a bit like people think something needs to change, but aren't putting their arms to to contribute to that change though. If that's the case, then I'm not sure there's any case supporting change at all

"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

Just let him do whatever the <censored> he wants, he's the only one doing it anyway. We need a community admin position anyway, and considering there are literally 0 other people up to the job, I think he gets it by default.

We'll talk further when someone who's able to contribute something of value shows up.

Hell, I think I am the one who contributed the most aside from MS? With a few videos that got a lot of hits and stuff? And I'm the one saying this.

BlackDove wrote:Just let him do whatever the <censored> he wants, he's the only one doing it anyway. We need a community admin position anyway, and considering there are literally 0 other people up to the job, I think he gets it by default.

We'll talk further when someone who's able to contribute something of value shows up.

Hell, I think I am the one who contributed the most aside from MS? With a few videos that got a lot of hits and stuff? And I'm the one saying this.

This is pretty much my stance. Completely agree.

As long as we avoid troublesome politics content in future, I very much think this would be best.

"Perhaps this is what I have always wished for since that day. The loss and destruction of all. That's right, one must destroy before creating. In that case, if my conscience becomes a hindrance to me, then I will simply erase it. I have no other choice but to move forward....therefore!" - Lelouch vi Britannia/Zero, Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch

I'm happy to help out on Twitter/Facebook wherever I can but I've also been doing some research and have had some other ideas which may provide us with a slightly different angle of attack to our problem.

Unfortunately I've not had chance to convert all of my head words in to electronic words yet as it's got pretty lengthy.. I'm about halfway through so will finish it up whilst at work tomorrow..

That said none of my thoughts really rely on whether we keep the existing Twitter account or setup a new one though so happy to go with the group think on this one.

BlackDove wrote:Just let him do whatever the <censored> he wants, he's the only one doing it anyway. We need a community admin position anyway, and considering there are literally 0 other people up to the job, I think he gets it by default.

We'll talk further when someone who's able to contribute something of value shows up.

Hell, I think I am the one who contributed the most aside from MS? With a few videos that got a lot of hits and stuff? And I'm the one saying this.

Anyone that needs access to any of the social media channels just needs to request the access with MS. As he stated before he asked to become the owner of the channel and seen as he is by far the most active contributor on all media, I deemed it just to do so.

If you need access to either, twitch, YouTube or any other media ask MS

He's been asking for more activity for a long time now and most of us have not delivered. In the past I had posted some items on the twitter account.

To the twitter issue:

We'd start fresh and do things right this time, if the group actually wants to put that into action this time around. I have set us up a new Twitter account at @STRGaming97 and kitted it out with STR imagery and labeled it as the "Official Twitter page for The Shattered Star (STR) gaming community.". Its location is labeled as worldwide and it links to our main site. This account would be tied to twitter@shatteredstar.org (currently verified through mine until Anny is around) and be used & managed by the community as a whole, as was originally intended. Anybody who wants access to it would be given it and people are encouraged to do so. - I'm sure there would be some of you that use it more than others and this is to be expected, the important thing being is to make sure it is always run AS a group and that it ACTUALLY gets used full stop. This never happened before which is why we've come to even discuss this a year later.

The previous twitter account is M.Steiner's and in addendum we'll restart with a new twitter account to which any contributor can ask permission to post.

So again, if you want to actively contribute, you'll just have to ask MS access.

Final guideline regarding all STR-media is the following: No political standpoints, game and game affiliated things only

Sorry I'm so late to this party, but this will be the last post to this discussion.

**ARBITED**

Last edited by SL33PY on Tue Oct 06, 2015 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:twitter issue clarified a bit more