You - you realize that feudalism is dying, right? Haha. That, probably by like, 2050, you won't be able to recuperate intersectionally privileged women into feudalist patriarchy by claiming to be radfems? You did that by claiming to be Christians, you know, with its feminist reforms to Jewish law, etc, while you were mass raping and genociding women and the LGBT+ of the lower classes.

Everyone that's gonna use this site has read Caliban and the Witch. Your infinitely anti-feminist politics are not welcome in the far-left/@. [clarified the political delineations]

[deleted] wrote at May 17, 2017 at 5:28 PM

Infuriatingly, yes. Because you say that, and then people look at what your camp does, and what y'all don't, do.

The Nordic Model forces pimps and johns to operate in secret. The best way to do that? Sex trafficking. You say you're furthermore against sex trafficking but it's in a very sketchy way. What you describe is forcing women into sex trafficking so that they cannot organize, cannot make economic gains, cannot watch out for each other, cannot operate in public where there is more potential accountability than there is in the secrecy of pure sex trafficking. And then you destroy that industry, porn, etc. Sounds great on its own, but it's the silence after that, that is the most terrifying part. The women and their children are still poor. For whatever reason, the welfare state is not sufficiently providing for them. They have no choice but unpaid labor to men. Their plight is only, solved, by direct and constant dependence on a man - becoming the private property of a man, or a male institution like the church. They are unemployable both by bourgeois industry, and by patriarchy, as a (criminalized) sex worker. Cis lesbians and their children are now dependent on church charity, and on a man whose abuse has been completely empowered by the lack of even broken, terrible, alternatives like sex work. Even the slightest dissidence from women results in extreme suffering. This empowers the church to return the society to an openly brutal, anti-LGBT, and it goes without saying, a lumpen-woman-genocidal regime. Again, the burning times. Your camp, is attacking the bourgeois institutions of women's oppression, in favor of the church. [edit, needed more Caliban]

But if you focus your attack on the church, if you attack the billions of dollars a year that the church, and by extension the non-profit secular charity scams that have adopted their economic mode, the only immediate solution to the communal need, is socialism or a much, stronger welfare state (which fails eventually, so, socialism, ultimately), or a sort of unofficial, localized gift economy. Capitalism has i.e. destroyed the father/family in PoC communities, and as a result, i.e., the Black Panther Party was driven by economic necessity, to start a communal program for childcare, and their efforts resulted in the WIC in the US. Imagine! Lumpen cis lesbians being more often, and moreso, able to raise their children without a man - without a pimp - and without clergy raping them and their children. It's not enough, as I said. Sex work is still something that becomes an economic necessity in lumpen women's survival. But if the church is necessary for communal survival, there is nothing for the lesbian and/or trans woman but purest brutality and need. [edit, a laugh at the welfare-state compromise]

[deleted] wrote at May 17, 2017 at 9:18 PM

Well, you tried, I'll give you that. No, of course, to all of it. It won't do for me, these tired appeals to some salaried libfem's Madonna complex, I've never enthusiastically consented to sex in my life.

But if we must talk reforms to genocidally misogynist systems, then let's take Israel as a Western-imperial model, not Scandinavia. There, pimps are criminalized, and sex work decriminalized, just the way the vast majority of sex worker advocates call for. Add hate crime legislation, and the minimal rights for sex working women one might gain from capitalism, and ofc more jobs for women and stronger welfare programs. And that's about the furthest you can go, short of socialism or communism.

And there is an institution, in the West (and Russia), that is standing in the way, of socialism and communism. Called, the church. And to a much lesser extent what's left of the nobility, knighting people, Shakespearean plays, etc. And when this feudal property is threatened in modern times, a fascist general always appears, conquers, and reinstalls the church with a reign of terror (see: Franco, "Latin" American anticlerical wars). Thankfully, people are also just very tired of child-rapists in their communities, so they're kind of silently voting by abstention against feudal power by not going to church or giving anymore. And without the church, the bourgeoisie are just inefficient economic planners. [edit, addendum: last sentence, elaboration]

[deleted] wrote at May 19, 2017 at 11:03 AM

Worse than pimps, is a system that forces women into the poverty that necessitates sex work.

Description of pimping being illegal, and description of the option of sex work being legal, presented as if bad in and of themselves

Again. You are more terrible than liberal capitalism by being so oppressive to lumpen women, that you don't even want us to have the option of sex work to deal with terrible situations in a terrible way. Which will drive the same section of men that want to brutally exploit women sexually, to increase sex trafficking. You want women's sexual oppression to be Nazi Germany, where the gov't controlled and exploited sex work completely.

[deleted] wrote at May 20, 2017 at 7:26 AM

You keep trying, I'll hand you that. You're so removed from the suffering of lumpenized women that you think being economically forced into the sex slave market is more liberating than having the option of looking for men on the street to rape us for money.

If I had a military I would literally install socialism or something more advanced, and then I'd rape captured johns and pimps to death, personally, and I'd create the conditions by which liberated ex sex workers could do literally whatever they wanted with these men until the men were literally genocided. And you're sitting here behind your desk in your church office or whatever saying all this bullshit to entertain yourself, cause you think you're baiting me to say these things. I say them freely and publicly, like you feudalists/fascists voice your genocide fantasies publicly.

Truly you are laboring with all your might to earn yourself a place in the gulag.