AL East Notes: Red Sox, Oswalt, Sabathia

Red Sox GM Ben Cherington confirmed to reporters that the Red Sox and Cubs have obtained a one-week extension to work out compensation for former Boston GM Theo Epstein. Here are some more notes from the division, starting with the Red Sox…

Though the Red Sox have considered moving Daniel Bard to the rotation, Gammons has heard it's not likely. Jerry Spar has the details at WEEI.com.

The Red Sox are in talks with Ortiz and, to a lesser extent, with Jonathan Papelbon, according to Peter Abraham of the Boston Globe (on Twitter).

It's highly unlikely that the Yankees will sign Roy Oswalt, according to Wallace Matthews of ESPNNewYork.com. The club's worried about Oswalt's injury history, according to Matthews. Oswalt had multiple stints on the DL with lower back issues in 2011.

The Yankees are "open-minded" about the possibility of moving A.J. Burnett or anyone else without a full no-trade clause, according to Chad Jennings of the Journal News. However, the GM sees value in the innings Burnett has provided.

Actually, Peter has been very good overall when it comes to all things Red Sox (he was calling the Red Sox picks in the last draft minutes before they were announced and he nailed almost all of them, for example).

A lot of people hate on Gammons because he was a Red Sox homer when he was working for ESPN, and thus they think he’s not credible. But he’s a very credible source in terms of the Red Sox. He’s got a lot of good sources.

Regardless of Pujols being gone or not… He’s NOT replacing Albert Pujols! Let’s get real people… Berkman will go back to 1B for a season until they trade for or develop another 1B, and that’s IF Pujols leaves (which is unlikely IMO).

As far as the other teams… Latos for Montero won’t work because according to every scout, as great a hitter he is, Montero is only a catcher because of his physical stature and contains little to no catching skills. If he did, why wouldn’t the Yankees at least give him a CHANCE to catch just one full game, especially since Martin was doing nothing at the end of the season.

The Zimmerman for Montero trade is so laughable that I don’t even feel I need to respond to it… though I will:

A) Bryce Harper (who, I know, is likely going to the OF) so..,

B) Wilson Ramos will be their catcher. This guy was a top 5 or 6 prospect, much like Montero, just two years ago, and Ramos started to show his promise this year by knocking 15 HR’s with a respectable .262 avg. Which brings us to…

C) Given the facts of A + B… Zimmerman for Montero?? Zimmerman led the Nat’s in ERA and K’s. Plus he’s 25 and is going to be the #2 behind possibly the most dominant young pitcher in baseball. And finally…

D) Montero will not play 1st base. Michael Morse led the Nat’s in every single offensive category, while playing 1st base.

The Montero for Zimmerman rumor mentions nothing about Montero being a C, nor does it mention Montero for Zimmerman straight up. It mentions him being a 1B. Morse is on a 1 year deal with an option for another year right? And Chris Marrero is a well below average prospect.

However I do agree in general, I don’t see that trade being done, but it is far from a “laughable” trade. Zimmerman is 5 years older, just had TJ Surgery and is on an innings limit probably next year also since he was shutdown. Point is, Zimmermann is still not a fully ready 200 inning pitcher, then of course Montero has 0 experience as a 1B.

bingo.The only way they would go for that would be if Pujolis does not re-sign. Then they could convert Montero into a 1st baseman. I’d love to have Garcia, especially since he is a lefty. But, besides Montero , it would take Betances and Banuelos. I am not willing to part with Manny. He has a strong potentional of being better than Garcia and Banuelos is a lefty.
Oswalt? No thanks . In his prime , yes , but not now. There is a strong reason the Phillies did not pick up his option.

I scoffed at the idea of Montero for Jaime at first, but the Cards do have Lynn, Martinez, and Miller waiting for a spot in the rotation. Miller and Martinez are pretty far away though. Scrabble is also an option for the starting rotation.

True, we have young high ceiling arms coming up, but we wouldn’t trade Garcia because of it. Lohse and Westbrook are gone after next year which puts Shelby in. Waino, Carp, Garcia, Miller, and a 1 year stop gap until Martinez is ready. Plus, Garcia is locked up on a cheap contract. Pretty good value if he continues his success, but with a few more innings. If he ever becomes a 200 innings guy, he’ll be a #1.

Trading for Montero as a C actually makes sense for the Giants. For starters, they now know they can’t count on Huff as the everyday 1B. Also, there have to be serious questions as to the ability of Brandon Belt to hit major league pitching. It would make sense to trade for Montero, leave him at C, and move Posey to 1B longterm.

That seems to be backward; Posey can actually play catcher, so why would you move him to first and play Montero at Catcher? Posey staying at Catcher and Montero going to first would make a lot more sense.

I thought they might like to move Posey to 1B in an effort to keep him healthy and prolong his career. He had a terrible injury this year playing catcher and he’s an integral part of their team. It seems logical that they might like to move him out from behind the plate.

You do because you said “Saying that the Nats would trade Jordan Zimmerman for a catcher”, because it does not say that Anywhere in the article. For one thing it mentions Montero as 1B for the Nats which is a strong possiblity since Marrero is a below average 1B and unless they trust Morse to keep coming back on 1 year deals, although he did get an extension for another year if I’m not mistaken. Anyway, read here:

Jordan Zimmermann: Chances are the Nationals envision a rotation that includes both Zimmermann and Stephen Strasburg at its head, so they’re not likely to deal him. If they did make him available, the Yankees would have to listen. He showed impeccable control in 2011, one year removed from Tommy John Surgery, and he could be even better heading into 2012, his age-26 season. As with Garcia he combines a quality strikeout rate with a low walk rate, though he doesn’t get as many ground balls. Still, if the Nationals want to add Montero as their first baseman, the Yankees should settle for no less than Zimmermann.

–

As you can see, there is, 1 – Not a single mention of the Yankees acquring him straight up, and 2 – Not a single mention of Montero being a Nationals catcher.

Wow, is this really mean that much to you? I didn’t read the article, you know that. Im never going to read it, its not worth it. I read what was in this post. Morse is arbitration eligible, fyi. Chill out man.

Jordan Zimmermann: Chances are the Nationals envision a rotation that
includes both Zimmermann and Stephen Strasburg at its head, so they’re
not likely to deal him. If they did make him available, the Yankees
would have to listen. He showed impeccable control in 2011, one year
removed from Tommy John Surgery, and he could be even better heading
into 2012, his age-26 season. As with Garcia he combines a quality
strikeout rate with a low walk rate, though he doesn’t get as many
ground balls. Still, if the Nationals want to add Montero as their first
baseman, the Yankees should settle for no less than Zimmermann.

You’re the perfect example of the Homer, idiotic Yankee fan. What has Montero done? NOTHING. Those three have demonstrated ace ability, and all three are young and under team control. All 3 have exponentially more valuable than Montero.

I pretty much agree, although I wouldn’t say Zimmermann has put up ace ability nor would I expect him to for another year or so since he might have another innings limist (although not that low) after his TJ Surgery. I do think he’ll be very good, but not as good as Latos. I think i t will be another year or 2 before Zimmermann pitches like the pitcher he’s projected to be. But yes I agree, clearly that’s a homer post by him.

I’m gonna reserve my opinion on Montero until he proves it over a full season. Sure, he did extremely well in the month and a half that he was up, but that’s just that. A month and a half. Yankee prospects always tend to be overvalued so I’m a bit weary of just how good he could become. Will he be a 25/90 guy or will he be a 40/120 guy? Or is it somewhere in between?

Yanks would be thrilled if he goes for 20 and 80 next year seeing as he will be a rookie (still qualifies I think) and likely won’t hit higher than 7th. Look around the league, that’s pretty decent DH production. As a Sox fan I think they are crazy if they don’t put in a two year offer for Ortiz. I think he’d look good in that park even at his age.

I know. Jake Westbrook, Austin Jackson, Ian Kennedy, Daniel Mccutchen, Axford and Pena if you count them….Melky Cabrera, Ohlendorf before he got hurt, Tyler Clippard, Ivan Nova…Those guys were all super prospects in the Yankees’ system who did absolutely nothing in the majors. No wait, it was the opposite.

Montero is over valued already. He hasn’t proven anything and his defense is below average. Could be a good fit for a NL team that can take the time to develop him @ 1B but I don’t see him ever being the 40/120 guy people are talking about. Those are ridiculous #’s, especially if he remains a catcher. The steroid era is supposedly a thing of the past…..

How is he over valued? He’s only been in the big leagues for a month. How much or how little can a player prove in a month playing time? And if you decide to look at small sample sizes anyway – 69 PA, .328/.406/.590 and 12 RBI. We know his defense is below average, but since when does that make a player’s value below average? Manny Ramirez would like a word with you!!!

The point I’m making is that people are making this guy into the best thing since sliced bread and he hasn’t earned it. Apparently no one that read my post read the whole thread and some of the ridiculous proposed trade suggestions for the guy. That’s what i was responding to so PLEASE don’t jump on me when you take what I wrote out of context to what was posted ahead of it. Thank you…

And apparently some who read thr suggestions read absoluty nothing about the article. The guy said absolutely nothing about these being straight up trades and he even mentioned additional prospects the yankees might have to include

I’m not gonna go back and forth with you. You’re trying to stir up a confrontation because you are one of those people that thrives on arguing…I wasn’t responding to Gammons,Pawlikowski, or the article itself, I was responding to what OTHERS had posted about trading him for Felix Hernandez straight up or Clayton Kershaw like these teams would just give the Yankees their aces for him because they (the Yankees) need pitching. Not how it works in the real world.

I’m not trying to stir up a confrontation at all. And I apologize but it appeared as if the trade suggestions you were talking about were the ones in that article (With Garcia, Latos and Zimmermann), not the Felix/Kershaw dumb rumors.

sure, but the difference is that bad defense at the former is way more valuable than bad defense at the latter

the problem is that montero’s defense as a catcher is worse than bad; he just isn’t a catcher. having said that, i don’t see any reason he can’t be a serviceable 1B or a manny-style LF

he’s a very good prospect, but the yankees have quite a few very good prospects like him right now. what they don’t have is quality starting pitching for 2012. cashing in on the hype from his september makes sense if the right deal is there

Get past the fact that he’s a Yankee prospect and this whole delusional idea that the “experts” not associated with the Yankee organization are somehow influenced to over hype Yankee prospects. He’s considered to be one of the BEST positional prospects (non-pitcher) in baseball DESPITE the fact that he’s considered, for now, to be a below average defensive C who will, by all accounts, have to be moved from the position either because of his defense OR just the fact that he figures to be a 6’5 235 type. How GREAT must his bat be IF almost all of his value is dependent upon his offensive production? I would almost dare say that if he ONLY ended up being a .280 25 hr guy then a lot of “experts” would consider him a mild bust. I think a .300 35 hr line is absolutely what’s going to be expected of him.

I just think those numbers are pushing expectations too far. Only the VERY elite hitters in the game reach those kind of numbers…and like I said the steroid era is in the past so to put up those #’s on a consistent basis would be almost impossible..NO catcher has ever put up those #’s, (it’s just too much wear and tear on the body) for more than a year except maybe Piazza and he was likely juiced most of his career. And 120 RBI with the Yankees and all the other run producers in that line up would be asking a lot from him and for a BIG fall off from Tex, Cano, Granderson and others….Maybe as a DH/1B as the main bat for another team???? I guess we’ll have to see him play a full season and if he puts up those #’s I’ll be eating crow, but till then I think he’s, as you said, a top prospect, that’s being turned into the next big thing because he’s a Yankee.

SERIOUSLY?? Oh thank you all great baseball guru for calling me out on this…..and basically making my argument for me..and once again for not reading ANY other posts I have made about this. Thank you SO much for putting me in my place because my 40 plus years of being a fan and watching “can’t miss” guys flop repeatedly and seeing teams trade established stars for potential and getting screwed have absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that a straight up trade for Felix Hernandez or Clayton Kershaw and the fact people are already projecting him to be a 40/120 guy (which are the IDIOTIC statements I was referring to) would be ridiculous until Montero has actually done something to warrant it….Now go sit down until the adults are done speaking….And BTW I’m sure you’ll have something witty or rude to say back to which I will ignore anyway since I’ve spoken my mind, so have at it

However, how has Zim proven himself as a dominant starter who has proven himself when he’s only had a 1 good year? Last year was basically his first full season and it came after having TJ surgery.

PS- Miguel Cabrera and Prince Fielder offer NOTHING in terms of defense so please stop diminishing him because he may never be a stellar defensive anything. If he were average or better at ANY position he would easily be mentioned as the #1 or #2 prospect in baseball and we wouldn’t be having this conversation about Zimmerman for Montero.

Chris Marrero is their best 1B prospect (12th overall in the organization) and I read he is nothing more than average. Although this can depend on how long Morse remains with the Nationals. He got a contract extension correct? However I do agree I don’t see them trading Zimmermann

I couldn’t find a better place to post this, and I know it was hinted at in an earlier post, but the Sox officially interview Dale Sveum today for the managerial opening. Please God let there be other options…

Nice to see someone actually read the article. The entire POINT was that those guys were the only ones who might make sense for the Yankees to give up Montero for, not that they were guys who would plausibly actually get traded for him. I think the article kind of showed that it’s very unlikely that Montero gets traded this year since there’s not even any viable targets that make sense to pursue.

If you read the post above mine, it clearly says, “Me hate Yanks. Me read something bout Yanks. Me want to smash things” So i continued that. And you were the one complaining i didnt read the article before? Hm.

If Josh Byrnes’ first move is to trade Latos, he will be even less popular than Hoyer was when he dealt Gonzalez. The Gonzalez deal made sense, trading your ace with multiple years of team control would be asinine. The Padres will, and needs to be, built around pitching and defense and trading your #1 starter for a catcher, that probably won’t stay at catcher would be foolish.

I’m not saying you’re wrong but i think you should give it some time before you compare him to Piazza or even Napoli. I mean its not like this guy is a vet who has been in the bigs for 3 years. Like you, I don’t expect him to stay at catcher but i find it silly comparing a 21 year olds defense to a guy who catched for what 15 seasons? In the end we might not even see him catch for even a full season ever. Again though I’m not saying he would or wouldn’t be better than Piazza

Napoli being in Texas was able to play catcher(61), 1st base(35) and DH(18). With San Diego trying to build around pitching and defense, they definately need a good defensive catcher. If Montero does need to move to 1st, the Padres already have Rizzo and to give up Latos for similar upside at the plate is counter productive in my mind. Not to mention, would a Napoli for Kershaw trade looked as good without the playoff success Napoli had? In my opinion a possible ace is more important than a 1st baseman, especially at Petco.

I think almost every team will value Montero more as a 1b than a C. They might TRY him at C until he proves beyond a shadow that he doesn’t belong there.

That being said, the Cards are only an option if Pujols doesn’t return. Even then, I can’t see the Cards weakening their rotation by trading Garcia and that’s probably the one pair of shoes you really wouldn’t want a rookie with such hype to live up to, to inherit.

The Padres sort of make sense but they have Rizzo and possibly Blanks at 1b. Not saying Montero would be blocked but he may not be as much of a priority to use Latos in exchange of.

As for Zimmerman, I’m just not sold on him as a stud pitcher. In fact, none of them scream #1 ace, or at least have too short a resume to feel comfortable trading Montero. I know in terms of “reality” they all have more “real” value than Montero but I think the potential upside of Montero coupled with the aging of Arod, Jeter etc, we would need a legit stud to risk moving him. We are getting so weak on the right side as Arod, Jeter and Martin are all in various degrees of decline either due to age or health. Tex is still young but we can’t assume he’ll be AS good in 3 to 4 years.

Latos is just starting to reach his potential. Given his age and the fact he’s practically free the next 5 years make his value about as high as it goes. Certainly higher than a DH masquerading as a catcher. If Latos goes to the Yankees it would have to be for a package of players built around Montero. Probably Montero, Betances and a 3rd player.

I could care less how “free” he is (which he won’t be during his abr years). I more concerned by his level of play. While I acknowledge that he is a stud now, I’m just saying he still has a small body of work. Obviously, his body of work is greater than Montero, but the Yanks can afford to acquire pitching in other ways. I would almost prefer to after CJ Wilson rather than trade Montero for someone I had some doubta about.

PS- I obviously feel that Latos has great potential to be a stud. I hope that wasn’t lost in my words.

It wasn’t. I got ya. He’s got about the best resume you could have for someone who’s both available and a potential staff Ace at the age of 23. I know the Yanks would rather deal for a guy in his prime, I just don’t see anyone out there who’s better.

We couldn’t even consider trading him if we didn’t have so much pitching in the pipeline. Erlin, Wieland, Kelly, Simon Castro, Keyvius Sampson, all should ready to go in the next year or two. The problem is were stuck with him being a catcher. If he turns into the worst defensive catcher in baseball (which I fear he might be) then we’re screwed.

Here’s a fun fact about Latos. He started the season thinking hitters would be making an adjustment to his ultra aggressive style. He tried adding more two seam finesse and threw the 4 seamer less. The result was .258/.323/.397 slugging against but with 4.04 ERA. The coaching staff convinced him to go back to being who he was. A dominant, aggressive young power pitcher with 96 heat, ‘freeze you’ curve and wipeout slider. In the second half? .205/.256/.326 against with a 2.87 ERA.

If I’m Cashman, it doesn’t make any sense for me to sign/trade for any of the starting pitchers on the market right now, obviously this doesn’t include King Felix but it’s always a mystery as to whether he’ll be available or not. Giving borderline top of the rotation guys like Wilson and Darvish big time free agent contracts is front office suicide and never seems to work out for a team like the Yankees (i.e. AJ Burnett and Carl Pavano) and giving up top prospects for young, unproven arms like Garcia and Latos is way too treacherous given the fragility and age of the Yanks’ roster. If there was a true top-of-line starter out there, by all means Cash go get him. But that’s not the way it’s shaping up. The best way for the Yanks to give up less runs in 2012 is to shore up the pathetic defense being played by Jeter and Arod on the left side of the infield. This can be accomplished by doing two things: 1, sign Jose Reyes to play SS and 2, move Derek Jeter to 3rd base, a position where his arm still plays and he wont have to range too far to his left with Reyes covering the hole at SS. Naturally, Girardi is gonna have to mix in Arod at 3rd with Jeter, but I think we’ve all realized that that’s about all the playing time Arod can realistically handle. The young arms on the Yankees staff (Nova, Betances, Banuelos, Hughes) will all feel a lot better with Reyes and Cano turning dp’s up the middle.

If Jeter was told he was being moved to RF, i can see him doing what Jorge Posada did in Joe Girardi’s office that time. By the way in the near future (well maybe if Jeter does become a RF and retires), I think RF will be where Montero goes (that is of course if which most likely what will happen, he can’t be a C at all)

Jeter’s power numbers don’t profile well at a corner spot, but at the same time this is the New York Yankees and you’re getting above average production from pretty much everywhere else on the field. Also, Jeter’s not a mess defensively, he can still catch the ball, he just can’t cover the middle at short anymore. With Reyes covering the hole at short, all Jeter would have to do is range to his right (which he can still better than almost any one) and make the play. A Rod can’t handle a full 162 in the field anymore, and I think that’s been pretty evident the last two years.

Cardinals have no need right now for a C/1B/DH. But they might be willing to part with Westbrook or Lohse (but they’d have to waive their no-trade clauses). Doubt the Yanks will go for it anyway, but who knows? They look desperate for pitching.

the thing is, if Ortiz is resigned he will most likely be the full time DH. They aren’t going to have him share it was Lavarnway or anyone. He can’t do anything other than DH & he’s going to need his at bats.

isn’t that pretty much what the guy said? Obviously the Yanks would have to eat a nice portion of his deal but I think some team might value him at at least $5 mil per year, especially if he went to a league/park that could hide some of his mistakes.