FtK, you see, unlike the people you may normally deal with. I can support, with evidence everything I say. I learned a long time ago that making shit up was not a way to be successful. If I'm wrong, I own up to it.

But, if I said it, I can back it up.

Every single thing... and, as I said, I could on for ages about all the things that's OK for Christians and no OK for anyone else... at least in our culture. It may be legal, it may be morally OK, but it's not OK if you aren't a Christian (or white or male or rich).

If you really don't think that there are privileged classes in the world, then I'd like to introduce you to Trayvon Martin... oh wait, I can't because he's dead and his killer was never arrested or even questioned by the local police.

Same thing with religious leaders. Thirty-year history of molesting young children? Let's just move him somewhere out of the way... like Boston.

You ask "what's so freaking hard about that?" The answer is very simply look at you and evolution.

You simply refuse to be persuaded by 150 years of peer-reviewed research on the topic. Well guess what, some people are exactly the same way when it comes to political policy.

It doesn't matter that cutting spending is the worst thing you could do in a massive recession. It is theoretically wrong, history has shown it's wrong, yet some politicians still want to do it. They are unpersuaded by all the evidence.

Now, apply that to religion. Do you think this country was founded as a Christian nation? It doesn't matter, you don't make policy. One of the people running for president does think that this was founded as a Christian nation and that no other religion should be here.

So much for melting pot.

FtK, you may be reasonable (I don't think so, but other than evolution you may be), but OTHER PEOPLE MAY NOT be.

They don't want me to live as I want to. They demand that I be a Christian. They demand that my wife not have access to medication that she must have to live a stable, healthy life. They demand a lot of things that they don't have any business demanding and that I don't want to do.

So much for the land of the free.

--------------Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

What in the hell does Trayvon Martin have to do with this?? If you're talking about discrimination, duh....there is discrimination against everyone for one reason or the other. I'm not saying it's right. I'm saying all the media bullshit taking sides with some groups over others...or highlighting what they consider discrimination, etc.. is what makes the hatred in America soar. That's what I'm talking about when I say there is more of it on the Internet (and media for that matter) than in real life.

But, haters gonna hate...and you're one of 'em. Everyone is against you evidently. And, what do Christians have to do with keeping your wife from getting the medications she needs. Hell, I don't even have health insurance atm. None of my family does. Can't get it unless I pay thousands to get independent life insurance until my husband's company will pay for it. Three month waiting period bullshit, and even then the insurance they are offering is pure shit. So, yeah, if something serious happens to me, I'm not going to be getting any medication either unless some millionaire buys it for me. It has nothing to do with Christianity.

And, this demanding you be Christian crap? wtf? Where the hell do you live??????? Jesus...you say we weren't built on a Christian nation...everyone is always showing me graphs and bullshit about most people not even being Christian anymore. Then you turn around and act like you can't do anything because you are under the thumb of the Christian theocracy.

Where do you live, btw? I'm curious, because I live in the freaking Bible belt and there are all kinds of people living here and I've never seen anyone stop any of them from doing anything. Heck, Kansas University is one of the move diverse colleges in the country. Pretty much anything goes. I have no idea what you are bitching about.

I'll go read your links now. I'm guessing a lot of quote mining.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

I think perhaps it would be fun to have a reality TV game in which presidential candidates fight to the death.

Just a passing thought.

Back to the regularly scheduled show.

Onlookers:

This is a Great Idea, and similar to my idea of a couple of years ago of allowing Ordinary People to punch out Fox "News" personalities. I do understand that with Glenn Beck now banished, that ratings will be down, but hey, who doesn't still want to punch a Bill O'Reilly, or a Meghan Kelly?

This will all be for charity, so step right up!

And just think how may milllions we could raise right here, if we could play Bitch-Slap An IDiot*, or play Pie A DI Guy?

* Prices may be higher for Islanders

ps: For all IDiots out there - this is what's called humor. Not to be confused with reality. Neither I not anyone on this board is calling for a Crusade against Fox, IDCists, or even Monsters From Montserrat.

And now back to your regularly scheduled broacasting...

--------------Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

ok...link one...nothing in there stating Santorum would turn the nation into a Christian theocracy.

Link two....laughable. They take one sentence from him and then they write a whole article literally putting words and thoughts into his mouth and mind. Freaking truly unbelievable.

The other links seem to be coming from "right wing watch". Are you fer real? I'll read them, but these are the sites *looking* to create insanity....they feed off it.

Both sides have these type of fear mongering, crazy rhetoric sites. You can find some truth at them, but then they twist and contort just to get people worked up to side with their own hatred. That's one reason why I don't read World Net Daily anymore. They've just gone too far with a lot of things they write.

Side note here: I'm not a Santorum backer....in fact, I'm out this election. I want no part of it, and I really don't care if that makes me a bad American, Christian or whatever.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

The other links seem to be coming from "right wing watch". †Are you fer real? †I'll read them, but these are the sites *looking* to create insanity....they feed off it.

All they do, typically, is directly link to the people saying what they have a problem with. Often with video.

You'll notice the majority of each piece consists of direct quotes.

If quoting people in their own words in context is "creating insanity" it's no wonder you have a problem with democracy.

Quote

Gingrich: Of course, look you have to understand that the elite media is in the tank for Obama. They are going to do anything that helps re-elect Obama. They are totally committed to Obama. It is just astonishing to me how pro-Obama they are. Do you think you are going to see two pages on Obamaís Muslim friends? Or two pages on the degree to which Obama is consistently apologizing to Islam while attacking the Catholic Church? Do you see anybody in the elite media prepared to say, gee, isnít this kind of odd, that we really worry a lot about the Qur'an and nothing about the Bible?

--------------I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot standGordon Mullings

I agree with them in regard to evolution being the only consideration for origins in the classroom. There is nothing wrong with considering that there is an ultimate Creator/Designer, and there is science to back that consideration. It should be taught.

That certainly doesn't me I would support a Christian theocracy!

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

The other links seem to be coming from "right wing watch". †Are you fer real? †I'll read them, but these are the sites *looking* to create insanity....they feed off it.

All they do, typically, is directly link to the people saying what they have a problem with. Often with video.

You'll notice the majority of each piece consists of direct quotes.

If quoting people in their own words in context is "creating insanity" it's no wonder you have a problem with democracy.

Quote

Gingrich: Of course, look you have to understand that the elite media is in the tank for Obama. They are going to do anything that helps re-elect Obama. They are totally committed to Obama. It is just astonishing to me how pro-Obama they are. Do you think you are going to see two pages on Obamaís Muslim friends? Or two pages on the degree to which Obama is consistently apologizing to Islam while attacking the Catholic Church? Do you see anybody in the elite media prepared to say, gee, isnít this kind of odd, that we really worry a lot about the Qur'an and nothing about the Bible?

Again, how does that quote from Gingrich in any way state that he wants to establish a Christian theocracy.

I think you have paranoia issues...seriously.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

Again, how does that quote from Gingrich in any way state that he wants to establish a Christian theocracy.

It does not, you stupid bitch.

Rather it addresses something else you said about sites like that "creating insanity". They do not, they simply repeat it.

You stupid fucking bitch whore.

If that's all he's trying to prove, wtf did he offer that quote to prove it. I don't disagree, obviously. I've already mentioned several times in my posts on this thread that both sides create the insanity you stupid fuck.

Hence, as I've also said, I'm not voting. Period. The whole voting process is a freaking circle jerk, and the candidates are all worthless. Nothing is going to change regardless of whom you pick from that bunch, and I'm certainly not voting to keep Obama in. So, F it...I'm out.

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

His "Satan attacking academia first" rhetoric reflects a form of collective, quasi-delusional, quasi-paranoid* thinking, exactly what you don't want rattling around the head of a U.S. president.

*I qualify these characterizations because I don't think Santorum suffers mental illness. I do think that communities can embark on collectively held lines of pathological perception and interpretation that closely mimic the products of truly disturbed thinking. Santorum and his think-group scare the shit out of me.

Edited by Reciprocating Bill on Mar. 23 2012,18:02

--------------Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."- David Foster Wallace

"Here‚Äôs a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."- Barry Arrington

His "Satan attacking academia first" rhetoric reflects a form of collective, quasi-delusional, quasi-paranoid* thinking, exactly what you don't want rattling around the head of a U.S. president.

*I qualify these characterizations because I don't think Santorum suffers mental illness. I do think that communities can embark on collectively held lines of pathological perception and interpretation that closely mimic the products of truly disturbed thinking. Santorum and his think-group scare the shit out of me.

Honestly, I don't think Santorum is any more "quasi-delusional, quasi-paranoid" than 90% of the members at this forum. Just sayin'...

--------------"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths" -forastero

Here is my opinion. I'm not going to support it with facts though. I'm just going to offer it. I don't care what label you choose to apply, if you condemn the label you are intentionally closing your mind.

Not that we don't all do it sometimes. But I think if we start with the recognition that injustice is the same thing no matter what label it falls under, then we can start to oppose the actual events rather than the abstract representations. If you want to occupy wall street, don't bitch about the rich and the poor, bitch about inequality. Don't stand in the street, block the crime from taking place upstairs.

If someone attacks a person with the intent to intimidate them and leave them in fear, the person not the mindset is the problem.

Even if there are 500 people with the mindset. The act is the problem. Address the act.

If religions want to put bibles in schools have them put in a locker.

We get thinking the fundies are the problem then they have already committed the crime and the question is what do we have to do to round them up. Same goes for Atheists blacks rich poor homeless whatever.

It just makes the work seem less to condemn the whole group but we can always only deal with problems one at a time.

Education and religion are not the same. If your religion is threatened by education then something is wrong with your religion if your atheism is threatened by religion then something is wrong with your atheism. Abstractions are the source of hate crimes. Not the solution. There is violence. There is hate. There is justice. It is not an abstraction. It is the action society takes to address a problem. Individually. If you feel the urge to make someone stop talking. The problem is you.

If you feel the urge to talk, you have a shot at being the solution.

--------------Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

Here's kinda what I"m talking about. †People like Trayvon †sometimes get *used* to great hatred by people like Sharpton or whomever to try to prove a point or cause further hatred. †

You won't see this story get the coverage Trayvon's did..nor will the President be speaking about it as he did with Trayvon being compared to what his son might look like.

A hate crime is a hate crime. †Period. †They are all wrong. †But, some are used by groups to up the anty on hatred toward one group or another.

But you miss the essential point. †That article says that the KC police didn't know who the attackers were, but that they were investigating the incident as a possible hate crime. †Even though the victim survived with what sound like relatively minor injuries, a detective from the KCPD is quoted as calling the attack "heinous."†The article is short, but gives no indication that all the bases were not being appropriately covered.

The Sanford FL police knew who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, and further had evidence that the shooting was unprovoked, and did nothing about it. †Nothing.

IIs it a sign of respect, that statements deserve an answer? Is is a sign of contempt, that her statements deserve an answer?Is a habit, that statements come before answers and she manages to put them in the click slot and that automates the whirr response?

This idea space is not mapping for me at all.

I can understand As,king her about her worldmap or describing one to her, but for the life of me I can't imagine arguing with her.

Simply because the words are spelled the same, but the referents don't even fit the syntax of each others languages let alone point toward similar units.

--------------Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

Oh, and BWE, I have no idea why you worry about people who disagree with your stance on PZ....he's an ass...he is problematic to Darwin's message due to his militant, illogical stance on...well, on pretty much everything. †Have a backbone, man.

Your failure to understand is noted.

i. BWE is not concerned about a disagreement.ii. Whether PZ is an ass or not, nothing (so far) is "problematic to Darwin's message"*.iii. Having a backbone is all about acknowledging mistakes. Refusing to do so indicates a lack of awareness/honesty, not a lack of backbone.

--------------"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers------"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"