the practice run thru was great - he wouldve passed all but the Separation (duh). ....... we also did some of the S. with evaluator person and he was pfft as to be expected. he is FINE if he is tossed a cookie and doesnt see me step out. HAHAHA... think I can crack it in the next week if i work more at it....... its been a while since we did that sort of practice in store since he is so good with me leaving the house. been too busy focusing on the not eating men bit instead

i wasn't aware tho that not even one little bark is allowed....

ps Ro is laying on his back chewing a nylabone clasped between his paws........ i dont want to interrupt the cuteness factor!

Results time: 8/10 (we didn't bother to do the crowd test since the store was basically chock full of man for the entire test)
That said three things happened that were almost better than if we had passed the whole thing.....:
1. we discovered that the glass enclosed classroom is not good because he can look out ... the break room is loads better
2. the evaluator said how so much better Ro is since she last saw him in May , that he is way calmer and a much better listener than he used to be and how much his greeting manners have improved. 3. THE BIG ONE : His test was literally a complete man/target/small children festival of distraction. from the second we went out to do our walking onwards, He only gave one growl (when one of them was stupid enough to just plant himself nearly next to me (fcol!) ) and then LEFT IT! And even more more betterer and the reason I'm still super duper happy is that while we were waiting for the dog to dog test to start we got cornered in between a lady with two very small bouncy children a big man with a cart just standing a 4ft leash away , and a lady a few feet away staring......... and me with ZERO cookies to reward with. - He did a down , stay, and Held it for nearly a minute and a half (while i was trying to not PANIC totally (came close to doing so) and i was just talking to him saying " cookies, chicken , bone, steak , what do you want when we get outta here? , chicken , chicken , ice cream , good ro , cookies..... Over and over and over... " He soooooooooooo badly wanted to react and he didnt and I was just sososososososo proud of him

I do have a question if anyone is still even paying attention to me after all this CGC nonsense and rambling i've done all week ...... Noticed that the SA problem at the store is not so much triggered by me not being there. Its the actual watching me walk out and him not eating anything that does it. If i toss a cookie and walk out he does NOT generally bark. If he thinks i've tossed a cookie and then finds i haven't , he did bark as soon as he realised there was no cookie tossed. If he is going to bark he usually does it within 15-20 seconds .... and then after the 30 second mark he is typically completely quiet. ------ soooooooooo I have a week and a goal and am definetly up for ANY AND ALL suggestions (believe me i will try anything .......)

still all and all pretty good for a dog who two weeks ago wasn't allowed out ever without a Gentle Leader on

How did you start with leaving him with the trainer? Since the issue is him watching you walk away, maybe you should work a little more on distance, not just time. In other words, kind of like with stay, put him with the trainer or whoever, but just walk maybe a step or two away. He gets to see you walk away, but you come back a lot sooner than he's used to, and you don't go as far. Basically, expand his comfort zone until he's comfortable with you walking further away. More distance pretty much equals more time, because it takes you longer to walk further away, so you're really working on both, just with a little more emphasis on distance. If he's really not happy when you even go a couple steps away, then you may have to take super baby steps. For instance, hand leash to trainer, turn your back, and then turn around and reward. Then turn your back, step forward, turn around, reward.
So did you start with distance, or did you just work on the time that you are away?

Like I said, if I'm telling you something you already know, just disregard.

definetly not a stupid question Tx ... we've probably gone about it both ways and maybe sideways and backwards too (at one time or another)... most of the SA work we did was back in june/july (kind of right when the man work started off as well (in some ways).......... we also did some where he gets taken away vs me leaving him (which as soon as he's rounded a corner he could care less and actually doesn't really bark so much as look over his shoulder if he is walking, only barked the time he was taken into the relief room while i stayed in class) (we did that one again today with the evaluator - both of us starting down the same aisle with her going round the corner holding him and me turning round and going the other way ... and he SO doesnt care)...

I get the time/distance difference ( i think it's interesting that he used to get MORE whiny / pacey / barky as time went by but that now he yelps a few times and then stops (when he yelps at all)... but i can give the leash if i stay in the room without really a problem .....
So should I start off literally walking a step or two away again? Or since he is comfortable at that distance should i do maybe halfway to the door to start? Should I vary the use of cookie tossing ? Ie sometimes throw him one and sometimes not? (at home he used to always get a kong with a treat stuffed in it on his bed when i left , now he will go to bed when I leave and I only very rarely toss him one , and he is absolutely quiet regardless of what happens (treat or no treat).

I also NEVER reward my coming back into the room........ and usually when I come home make a point to put my stuff down , (maybe just give a verbal hello) , and spend a moment or two getting settled before I give him attention... - he usually just lays down and waits til I am ready. But when i come back in the classroom and do the same thing 75% of the time he acts like velcro dog for some reason ..... ?!?!

and its not like its somewhere that doesnt have a generally positive association for him. he ADORES going to class........ ADORES trainer....... generally its a man/target free area for him... usually he gets tons of c/t there......... so yah...... *confusing*...
well except for the new theory that since he can see out of the glass he is looking for me more readily........ --- shall see how the break room works out

I would say just see where he is still relaxed and not showing any signs of anxiety. So if you can still go 50 feet away with no anxiety, then that's fine, just start wherever he's still comfy. So let's say maybe, leave the classroom door open, walk to 50 ft(or wherever), duck just down an aisle, and immediately come back. Or, if he's fine with you going 50 ft, turning out of sight, and staying for 20 seconds, then start coming back right at 20 seconds(can he see you coming back?).

If you're already pretty much doing an exercise like this, then really you'll just be doing the same thing--more work on the same stuff, just working on him being calm while you're away. Tossing a cookie every time you go away might help, so:
1) He doesn't pay attention to you leaving
2)He thinks, "Mom's leaving, I'm getting a cookie!!!"

I can do both of those tomorrow and report back.....
we did several of cookie tossing today........... but the instant you dont drop the cookie he starts to bark ...... which is when i tried it with "pretend cookie" tossing and then he went to look for the cookie , saw there wasnt one , and barked.....
so how can I fade if he is going all barky
wait or stay or bye or me being quiet and just going also seems to be irrelevant as to which i do ... I've been trying to teach him "go to bed" without the bed being present , he is getting the hang of just lying down ... --- should i pair this with actually bringing his kong that he gets on his bed at home ............ and repeating x1000 and then try "empty kong" / kong randomization ??

Ok so tomorrow starts SA bootcamp .....
Im going to start at a few steps away , and then back as you suggested... but I have a few (or a dozen) questions ...

should I try with a actual "bed" or just an imaginary one or not at all ...

should i vary the distance away from him that i go or should i just start small and aim for all the way away......

tips on the best randomizing of the food thing? should i also vary the value of the cookie that gets tossed...? Do you think that having the person holding the leash actually be the one tossing the treat as i walk out would potentially be even better? ie the whole stranger = chicken = tennis ball etc concept? or would it not matter really?

do you think there is any benefit to trying multiple locations in the store so long as he cant see me once i've gone or should i just focus on making him super comfy in my chosen test location?

also as a sidenote - when i leave him for daycamp the lobby is the same area (or rather you can go into classroom from the lobby) .......... sometimes when i leave him for camp he could care less and sometimes he fusses if he sees me leave - totally random based. and he never gets fed for being dropped at camp.... --- just further proof of how weird ro is.

Well, you don't want to dilute his "go to bed" command, so I would say actually have a bed if this is what you want to try. I think you could try the kong, could be a good thing.
At this point, I wouldn't randomize the cookie tossing. I think whoever is holding him should toss the treat--the less focus on you the better. But I wouldn't randomize at this point in time--I would have the person holding him throw on every time, until he starts looking for the cookie as soon as you leave. I wouldn't make it obvious either, just a suddle, "Whoops! Treats just rained from the sky, look at that...." That way he thinks every time you leave, treats fall. If you repeat this enough, he will start looking for treats when you leave. That would be the point where you start to randomize it a little bit. Maybe toss one 3 times in a row when you leave, but then not the next time. Then maybe 2 times, but not the next two times. Then maybe 6 times....completely random, but when first starting out don't have a big gap of treats 5 times, no treats 5 times. Just start out with one or two no-treat times, and follow with times where he does get treats.

I definitely think varying the location could help too, so he doesn't think, "Mom is ONLY going to leave me by the classroom." He will be more solid and will get more out of it if you vary the location. Just remember that in a different location, you may need to take several steps back and make it a little easier on him. Maybe talk to the people at day camp and use this exercise there too. Have whoever takes him drop a treat as you leave so you are further reinforcing the calmness/quietness when you go away.
Is it the distance that bothers him, or just watching you leave? If it is watching you leave, then I would say you don't necessarily need to focus on distance. Certainly wouldn't hurt to work on it, but if his only issue is watching you leave, then I would focus more on that.

sorry my net connection has been terrible as of late and I completely didn't remember to post on here! *bad me* ... The second test date wasn't held (BOO!) so we are still at 8/10. By the time they offer another one tho we will be ready to pass the separation part and also actually take the walk through crowd part (we didn't take that the first time around bc he couldnt pass separation)... have been getting a LITTLE better at it lately

sorry my net connection has been terrible as of late and I completely didn't remember to post on here! *bad me* ... The second test date wasn't held (BOO!) so we are still at 8/10. By the time they offer another one tho we will be ready to pass the separation part and also actually take the walk through crowd part (we didn't take that the first time around bc he couldnt pass separation)... have been getting a LITTLE better at it lately

Glad to here training is going well! Do you know when the next test date is? Can't wait to hear how it goes!

No idea when the next one will be probably in the next month or so I hope?. We are just practicing away. I guess I can always request one if there isn't one and we are all ready for action! I'll be sure to let everyone know whenever it winds up being