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I started teaching a new student last year. After a recital last year, he posted himself on youtube playing three pieces he learned from me. He was thrilled with me and his pieces. However, he doesn't sound that great on the video since I had only begun working with him. In addition, my image is on the video and I look like a klutz behind him (I was sitting there to prepare for duets with young students). Finally, one piece I arranged and wish to publish someday.

The video has only now come to my attention. I want to ask the parent to remove it from youtube. However, I feel it may break the student's spirit and their interest in studying with me. What should I do? I feel I look like a lousy teacher based on his playing and I'm also worried about somebody stealing my arrangement.

Oh - sounds fun. Link please? Just kidding, but I hope it helps lighten the mood.

Anyway, I would ask the student/parent to remove the video, but purely on the basis of your appearance in the video. Don't talk about his playing or he might feel he's "not good enough", and that could stay with him.

You could simply explain that you don't want to have videos of you on youtube. People should understand your desire for privacy. You could also talk about the piece you arranged and your desire for potential pubication.

#2123073 - 07/26/1312:57 AMRe: What to do about student posting on youtube
[Re: Peter K. Mose]

laguna_greg
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1505
Loc: guess where in CA and WA

Are you people brain dead? Or just ignorant? The rights to the performance of that video legally vest in the performer. No one else.

The teacher (who is that) has no rights over this video whatsoever. If you don't want them to use your name, you have the rights over your own name. Tell them to take your name off any mention of that video, if you don't want it broadcast! That's all you can do!!! Make them sign an agreement with you before you start lessons!

Do you people ever even talk to lawyers, like other business people??!

Spend $250, and talk to a (good) lawyer to find out what our rights actually are!

Are you people brain dead? Or just ignorant? The rights to the performance of that video legally vest in the performer. No one else.

The teacher (who is that) has no rights over this video whatsoever. If you don't want them to use your name, you have the rights over your own name. Tell them to take your name off any mention of that video, if you don't want it broadcast! That's all you can do!!! Make them sign an agreement with you before you start lessons!

Do you people ever even talk to lawyers, like other business people??!

Spend $250, and talk to a (good) lawyer to find out what our rights actually are!

first of all you are being insulting for no reason.

Secondly, since there's a work of music that was arranged by candywoman, which actually IS her intellectual property.

Thirdly, actually posting a video of someone (the teacher) without permission IS on the edge of being illegal. Otherwise I'll come over while you're bathing and start posting it in youtube, right?

Fourthly, if the music that the student IS actually copyrighted, this means that the student has no right posting it on youtube, in the first place!

So get your facts right, tone down, relax and try posting in a helpful manner rather than like this.

Are you people brain dead? Or just ignorant? The rights to the performance of that video legally vest in the performer. No one else.

The teacher (who is that) has no rights over this video whatsoever. If you don't want them to use your name, you have the rights over your own name. Tell them to take your name off any mention of that video, if you don't want it broadcast! That's all you can do!!! Make them sign an agreement with you before you start lessons!

Do you people ever even talk to lawyers, like other business people??!

Spend $250, and talk to a (good) lawyer to find out what our rights actually are!

Do you ever come here for any reason other that to brag about how wonderful you are as a teacher or to totally trash someone in this group?

Youtube has three settings, two of them being private. Public is the default, and then the whole world sees it. One option could be for you to ask them to turn it to a private setting, and then share it only with family and friends. That would be like inviting them to come to the recital, which is more normal. I also noticed that Youtube has an option of blurring faces, so your face could be blurred out, as well as your name removed.

As other options for this horse that got out of the stable.

There is also an opposite situation where teachers want to show their students in order to show the quality of their teaching, or show examples on their web-sites where they advertise. Here you must first ask permission of students or their parents or guardians.

I'm thinking that in this era of the Internet, new studio policies have to be put in place.

I would ask the student to remove your name from the video. Such videos will get something like 400 views in five years, so you're pretty much safe in a world flooded by Youtube videos.

Hey, I know a kid whose piano vids have over 700K views.

But seriously, the likelihood that CW's reputation in the community will suffer from this is quite low. On the other hand, she would be well within her rights to ask the student's family to pull (or edit) videos that have her in view or that use her own copyrighted work. A better and longer-run solution is to draft a set of suggestions or policies for her studio that include dos and don'ts of posting material online.

A better and longer-run solution is to draft a set of suggestions or policies for her studio that include dos and don'ts or posting material online.

That's a good idea. Youtube is part of the culture of the younger crowd, along with a lot of other social media I am clueless about, like facebook, twister, etc. To a child it's been here forever.

But it is fairly new to the piano teaching world. New technology always involves figuring out how to incorporate it.

Youtube is an incredible resource, there are probably all sorts of ways to use it we haven't figured out yet. If we encourage kids to listen to music on it, we are encouraging them to post, and that's probably a good thing.

I think the only one that you have any basis for asking him to remove would be the one that you arranged. But really? I think you should have better things to do with your time. I missed the part where you said your name was included in it, but if so, then you could ask that that be removed.

Without a policy stated before hand, probably is too late to do anything about this video. But, it is never too late yet!! You can always craft a new policy to include for your new year from September 2013!!

#2123332 - 07/26/1301:31 PMRe: What to do about student posting on youtube
[Re: Gary D.]

laguna_greg
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1505
Loc: guess where in CA and WA

Originally Posted By: Gary D.

Originally Posted By: laguna_greg

Are you people brain dead? Or just ignorant? The rights to the performance of that video legally vest in the performer. No one else.

The teacher (who is that) has no rights over this video whatsoever. If you don't want them to use your name, you have the rights over your own name. Tell them to take your name off any mention of that video, if you don't want it broadcast! That's all you can do!!! Make them sign an agreement with you before you start lessons!

Do you people ever even talk to lawyers, like other business people??!

Spend $250, and talk to a (good) lawyer to find out what our rights actually are!

Do you ever come here for any reason other that to brag about how wonderful you are as a teacher or to totally trash someone in this group?

Actually, no I don't. But if one doesn't behave like a real business person, then the legal protections other businesses enjoy will not be available to you. I'm always surprised and saddened when somebody who runs a business doesn't act that way. Perhaps I was a little harsh in my post, but it is not funny when you lose your legal rights out of ignorance, when you could have protected them.

Candywoman, if you really want to protect your rights to that arrangement you put together, you should file a copyright application with the U.S. Trademark and Copyright Office for it. It's not too late to do so and still protect your ownership of any copies. You fill out a form, send in two fair copies, and a check for the very modest fee, if you haven't already. If you make any further changes to it, file new applications as the work evolves.

If you want to protect your rights to the performance of such a work, join ASCAP or BMI and file the work with them. You have to be a member in order to protect or control the performance of any of your original work, and get royalties or performance fees. If you don't, your work is unprotected in regards to its live performance or recording.

As far as that video goes, if both the student (performer) is in view and yourself, then you don't have much standing to ask them to take it down without a quid pro quo.

Also, if they took the video with their own camera, you have no rights to the physical recording or digital file at all, only to your performance in it.

I meant what I said. If you really have concerns in this area, go see a good lawyers so you won't make any more mistakes with your own artwork. Or at the least, get the Nolo Press nook on music law and follow its advice.

I'm sure you don't look as bad as you think you do in the clip. Nobody'll see that video in a few months anyway.

Laguna Greg, are you a lawyer? And if so are you registered world wide to provide advice? otherwise it would be wise to add something like "I'm not a lawyer and my advice cannot be held as responsible for any actions taken", etc...

So... now to your advice.

I don't think you're wrong, but you're over reacting, once more, for something that's quite simple. Plus you're leaving quite a few gaps about many things that you say...

Originally Posted By: laguna_greg

Candywoman, if you really want to protect your rights to that arrangement you put together, you should file a copyright application with the U.S. Trademark and Copyright Office for it. It's not too late to do so and still protect your ownership of any copies. You fill out a form, send in two fair copies, and a check for the very modest fee, if you haven't already. If you make any further changes to it, file new applications as the work evolves.

The registration to the copyrights office (www.copyright.gov) is necessary if you're actually serious about your work. But legally speaking it's not necessary to register a work. The work is already copyrighted according to the Berne Convention with the appearance to a tangible means! (this means that you cannot copyright a music idea (a theme) that you have in your head, but you can copyright it, if you write it down into paper, or a recording, or a midi file, etc. As long as there's enough "skill" and "originality" to that.

Now, an arrangement is a little weak to begin with, but you can copyright your creative part in that work (the arrangement).

BUT, to be fair, while copyright is automatic (check the above), the enforcing part is much more difficult and this is where the copyright office of the USA comes into play. This applies ONLY to US courts, but any copyright infringement is an issue to a Federal court and not a State court. And no federal court will accept a copyright claim without the work being registered through the copyright office.

Quote:

If you want to protect your rights to the performance of such a work, join ASCAP or BMI and file the work with them. You have to be a member in order to protect or control the performance of any of your original work, and get royalties or performance fees. If you don't, your work is unprotected in regards to its live performance or recording.

Again, not quite clear.

Yes, ASCAP, BMI and any other PRO (Performing Rights Organization, like SAGEM, GEMA, AEPI, STIM (to name a few)) will cash in the money to the writer and the publisher of a work performed live, or recorded, etc, but it doesn't "protect" it, if you mean it as in "Do NOT perform the work". The copyrights is enough to stop someone from performing your work (though it sucks to do so)...

I have been dealing with getting a license to use an arrangement of a work by Prokofiev (there's actually a thread about this somewhere here), and ultimately I had to reach out to the copyright holders (publishing house) as well as the Prokofiev Estate (ethical part, if you want to call it that).

Same goes for a composer of EMF, who's done a set of 32 variations on a theme of Theodorakis (well known Greek composer...). I had to grab a license from Theodorakis himself not AEPI (the local PRO).

Also, one should note that PROs have very little deal with the Internet in general. Youtube, Shazam, pandora, Last.fm, etc do NOT provide royalties! (sadly)... They do provide an option to monetize your videos (as youtube says), but it's got nothing to do with PROs! Same, actually, goes for computer games! I've never ever gained a single dime from royalties from computer games. I have gained % from sales, but that was in the contract and no PRO was there to help me gather that.

I'm not a lawyer, but that's my understanding of things!

_____________________________

Now to the issue in question.

Candywoman. It is like most say: It's no biggie and the video will disappear from the radar very soon. It's a little unfortunate that the parents decided to post the video. I think that if I was in their shoes I would've asked the teacher first.

But since it's done, it's done. You can ask them nicely (what Leguna Greg says pretty much) and you can draft some kind of rules, or add them to your existing agreement, to make sure that the parents and students know about this.

Thanks everybody for the help. I'm leaning towards asking them to take down the one of my arrangement when I sign them up for lessons in August.I won't be sitting where a video can capture me anymore. I'll be asking the parents not to video me or anybody else without permission.

#2123550 - 07/26/1309:45 PMRe: What to do about student posting on youtube
[Re: Nikolas]

laguna_greg
1000 Post Club Member
Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1505
Loc: guess where in CA and WA

Oh Nik,

"Laguna Greg, are you a lawyer? And if so are you registered world wide to provide advice? "

I think that's a case of the pot telling the kettle not to boil water. Did you put any such caveats on your own advice, considering you gave almost exactly the same advice as I did?

Candy, if you are not serious about this arrangement, then you don't need to follow anybody's advice here, and you don't need to take any precautions. What I'm suggesting will cost a couple of dollars, and take up some valuable time.

But the last thing I would want to see is that somebody heard your arrangement on Youtube, liked it, made their own "version" of it (or "borrowed" it wholesale), and then published it before you did. In that case, even with the available documentation, authorship would be very hard to prove unless you filed a copyright application timely.

To bring things down to a more practical level, all we're talking about is domestic publication and the laws that govern that here in the US or Canada. Nik can have the "world" to himself if he wants it.

Intellectual property laws here in the US give authors a very narrow range of protection, and only if they actively pursue it. If you plan to publish at all, you might as well take advantage of the protections you have.

Thanks Laguna,I have it on my list to see an entertainment lawyer, to compose more, to publish my music, and to understand all the things you are writing about. I just wasn't ready for it now. However, it is time I start learning.

Does anybody thing it's to my advantage to leave up the arrangement to prove by it's date that I composed it?

Candywoman, I still think that you could suggest that they use the "private" setting and then send the link to family and friends. This way the confidence of the boy that you are worried about would not be undermined, and it would also not be "out there" for the whole world. It may be a win-win as far as the present situation is concerned.

- Since you are the composer of the piece and you have not expressly given full rights for performance/reproduction/distribution, and the student is performing your work...

- If you are recognizable in the video, and you do not wish to be identified, then you have the right to ask for the video to be taken down or rendered so that you are not identifiable.[Edit: And you have not given prior written consent.]

- It would be reasonable to ask them to take down the part of the video with your arrangement, and that you are not identified in the video (whether by blurring your eyes and / or taking down your link).

However, there are always holes.

- In the US, Fair Use means the work is used for nonprofit, educational purposes. (Copyright not needed.) Whether this case is strong or not would depend on a number of issues.

Please note: I am not a practicing attorney currently and this is not legal advice.

Candywoman, I still think that you could suggest that they use the "private" setting and then send the link to family and friends. This way the confidence of the boy that you are worried about would not be undermined, and it would also not be "out there" for the whole world. It may be a win-win as far as the present situation is concerned.

Not sure what difference it makes.

My guess is the video now had 23 views, viewer are all family or close friends and half the people actually did not finish watching it.

In the unlike event the video goes viral, copyrighted or not, the OP will be benefited.

Candywoman, I still think that you could suggest that they use the "private" setting and then send the link to family and friends. This way the confidence of the boy that you are worried about would not be undermined, and it would also not be "out there" for the whole world. It may be a win-win as far as the present situation is concerned.

The piece was assigned by the composer for a public performance held by the composer to a student.

In the future, hire a professional to record the event so you can approve the recording/music/ remove any student who is sub par. Also check bags and purses for recording equipment before they enter the recital hall.

Or let the parent know their child can perform a piece that is common and record them at will and share online or play your music and not be permitted to put the music online.

I think having a blanket policy that you can only record and post your own child unless you have permission of others is good. That is the policy at our music school. Youtube channels can be highly motivating though! We have a family youtube channel and I have video on there from when my son was 7. He's working on his first concerto right now at 12. It's such a fun progression to go back and look at! I will also say, when he first gets a piece the first thing he does is go watch a few people perform it on youtube. I'm definitely glad other people are posting!

They have a book specifically about music law. Even though it's geared towards commercial bands and pop music, the same laws also govern the publication and ownership of your music.

They also have books about copyrights and trademarks that will show you how to do it yourself for a lot less. Most of the legal protections you need to employ can be done by yourself, and without an attorney.

I would write a new policy on media in general. Usually it's the other way around-- some parents don't want their kids' images publicized so teachers have to get permission to film/photograph. But you should have a policy for that so this doesn't happen again in the future.