22:19:51 RRSAgent has joined #ws-addr
22:19:51 is logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/01/16-ws-addr-irc
22:20:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2005Jan/0055.html
22:20:28 Meeting: Web Services Addressing WG F2F
22:20:29 No objection to accepting the minutes of the 2005-01-10 meeting
22:20:35 minutes are therefore approved
22:20:39 Chair: Mark Nottingham
22:20:46 Schedule, Deliverables Review
22:23:08 Draft spec review:
22:23:44 1. Introduction
22:23:50 Core
22:24:24 Glen: Generally pretty good but given the level of discussion we've had, it probably needs amending to include some of that discussion
22:24:29 2. Endpoint References
22:25:04 2.1 - Abstract properties
22:25:11 2.2 Serialization into INfoset
22:25:44 MarkN: Has this changed much?
22:25:52 Editors: Only to reflect closed issues
22:26:45 Yin-Leng: Could do with a succint definition of EPR
22:27:21 Glen: Could do with a definition of how extensibility works. We allow extra elements at the Infoset level but there is no definition of extensibility at the abstract property level
22:28:38 Yin-Leng: All the examples have a mismatched end-tag
22:30:25 2.3 EPR Comparison
22:31:45 Marc: Do we need to specify how to compare properties?
22:31:52 Esp. Ref props and params? C14N?
22:32:04 Marc: Do we need to be more specific about how to compare EPRs (e.g. C14N )
22:32:07 s/Esp./... Esp./
22:34:28 ACTION: MarcH to raise an issue re: C14N of EPRs
22:34:37 2.4 EPR Lifecycle
22:34:59 3. Message addressing properties
22:36:31 3.1 Infoset Rep of Message Addressing Properties
22:36:41 3.2 Formulating a Reply Messages
22:37:41 bob has joined #ws-addr
22:37:56 Hugo: Text says it defines rules but there are no rules, just an example.
22:38:13 Editors: We should define the rules
22:38:38 ACTION: Hugo to raise an issue about lack of rules in section 3.2
22:39:21 SOAP Binding
22:40:12 Section 2: Binding EPRs
22:40:35 Section 3 - Faults
22:41:52 WSDL Binding
22:42:20 1. Introduction
22:42:24 2. Endpoint References
22:42:45 3. Associating Action with WSDL operations
22:45:27 Yin-Leng: Need to change from port type to a generic term or point out that where we say port type we mean WSDL 1.1
22:47:17 Marc: We should define the wsa:Action attribute (just an example right now)
22:47:54 ACTION: Editors to add a definition of wsa:Action to Section 3.1
22:48:20 ACTION: Editors to amend reference to WSDL 2.4.5 to read WSDL 1.1 Section 2.4.5 in Section 3.
22:49:29 Paco: Might want to be more explicit about where we talk about WSDL 1.1 and where we talk about WSDL 2.0
22:50:26 Section 4.1: WSDL 1.1 MEPs
22:53:59 Some discussion of whether this stuff really relates to WSDL or whether it's part of the core.
22:54:39 Editors: Really just used WSDL MEPs as the basis for building the property tables. WSDL not actually required.
22:57:13 Anish: Do these tables correlate the destination of the response with the source in the request
22:58:06 Gudge: No because the WSDL 2.0 spec doesn't define what 'same node' means
22:59:59 Section 4.2: WSDL 2.0 MEPs
23:02:30 Anish: Doesn't robust in-only use the message triggers fault model in WSDL 2.0
23:04:38 jeffm has joined #ws-addr
23:06:30 Gudge: We had language that constrained source/fault/replyto values based on 'fault must go back to requestor' in WSDL 2.0.
23:06:44 Jonathan: Should we put this on the agenda for the joint meeting?
23:07:13 MarkN: I think this is issue 21
23:08:38 Chair: Postpone schedule review until after we've discussed other issues
23:09:09 Chair: Logistics. We'll go to lunch at noon.
23:09:21 Chair: Go to break now
23:09:48 Chair: Review of Choreography last call after the break (20 minutes)
23:20:16 -Melbourne
23:20:25 +Hugo
23:21:19 -Hugo
23:23:01 +Hugo
23:24:39 -Hugo
23:25:31 +Hugo
23:25:42 -Hugo
23:25:43 +Hugo
23:26:35 -Hugo
23:26:45 +Hugo
23:27:41 -Hugo
23:28:07 +Hugo
23:30:14 Zakim, who's on the phone?
23:30:14 On the phone I see Mark_Peel, Hugo, Hugo
23:30:21 Zakim, Hugo is Melbourne
23:30:21 sorry, hugo, I do not recognize a party named 'Hugo'
23:32:10 Restarting after break
23:32:36 Review of WS-Choreography specification
23:33:08 Yin-Leng's e-mail is at
23:33:53 Definitely better!!
23:33:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2005Jan/0059.html
23:34:45 Yin-Leng: Overall no real direct impact between WS-CDL and WS-Addressing because WS-CDL defines very abstract choreography across businesses
23:35:06 Yin-Leng: The two main concepts that might impact WS-Addressing are channels and interactions
23:35:16 anish has joined #ws-addr
23:35:27 Yin-Leng: But because the spec defines a contract there is no direct impact on WS-Addressing
23:35:46 Yin-Leng: Channel is a point of collaboration between parties. Interaction talks about information that is exchange between parties
23:36:17 Yin-Leng: Second comment; they use abstractions to avoid specifics
23:36:29 Yin-Leng: Insulates them from datatypes (e.g. in XML Schema )
23:37:01 Yin-Leng: Also abstracts them from WSDL messages
23:37:25 Yin-Leng; There may need to be some mapping between the abstract concepts in WS-CDL to the constructs in WS-Addressing
23:37:41 Yin-Leng: Should the mapping be standardized? If yes, which WG should do the work?
23:38:34 Jeff: This seems fairly simple. WS-CDL can use WS-Addressing.
23:38:57 jeff: Other specs that want to use WS-Addressing should just be able to use it however they like.
23:39:08 Jeff: Within the constraints of the WS-Addressing spec
23:39:57 Marc: Do the WS-CDL WG know they are a user of WS-Addressing?
23:40:03 Jeff/Yin-Leng: Yes they do.
23:40:30 Yin-Leng: Our comments back to them may be that they should do a binding
23:41:12 Gudge: Agree with Jeff, specs that use WS-Addressing should define the binding ( rather than our WG doing it )
23:43:32 Yin-Leng: Main impact for us is whether we want to provide guidance on how to write a binding to WS-Addressing
23:44:06 Yin-Leng: They need to update their reference to our spec ( currently references an old version )
23:44:29 Yin-Leng: They will review and comment on our spec.
23:45:48 pauld has joined #ws-addr
23:45:56 ACTION: Yin-Leng to draft an e-mail response to WS-CDL WG. To be reviewed 2005-01-24 latest.
23:46:56 Chair hands out various copies of the agenda
23:47:00 Issues:
23:47:13 Issue 41 - Use cases for testing
23:49:19 Harris' e-mail is at
23:49:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2005Jan/0039.html
23:49:58 MarkN: This is fairly general. Need to specify all sorts of things (WSDL MEP is use, relationship to other specs etc )
23:50:18 Anish: Might be better to have a structure that test submitters can easily fill in.
23:51:16 Anish: Do we expect people outside this group to submit test cases? If so, I think Hugo has a template for submission that deals with copyright issues
23:51:55 Paco has joined #ws-addr
23:52:14 Hugo: I did investigate copyright for test cases for the WS-Desc WG. I can't remember exact conclusion but I do remember sending e-mail about IP and test cases
23:52:25 hugo, you wanted to mention copyright
23:53:01 ACTION: Hugo to find his e-mail to WS-Desc on IP and test cases and forward to WS-Addr
23:53:20 MarkN: Does anyone want to send out e-mail detailing what a test-case would cover
23:53:50 ACTION: Anish to help Harris on issue 41 by preparing a more specific template that people can use to submit test cases.
23:54:16 MarkN: Once that's done I'd like some people to generate an initial set of (probably simple) test cases.
23:54:52 Greg: Do all implementations have to pass all test cases?
23:55:06 MarkN: Test cases will be used to help us drive the design of the spec.
23:55:24 MarkN: The test cases will then be used in CR to determine exit criteria
23:57:14 ACTION 7 = Anish to help Harris on issue 41 by preparing a more specific template that people can use to submit test cases. Due 2005-01-21.
23:57:43 zakim, ack hugo
23:57:43 hugo, you wanted to ask about the link to interop tests
23:57:45 I see no one on the speaker queue
23:58:13 Hugo: Dims has sent a URL pointing to a document that has interop scenarios we might be able to harvest
23:58:53 http://131.107.153.195/wsa/doc/WSE_Addressing_Scenarios.doc
23:59:37 ACTION: Gudge to determine copyright of test cases at above URL
23:59:38 jeffm has joined #ws-addr
23:59:41 Issue 40
23:59:53 dorchard has joined #ws-addr