When keepin' it real goes wrong (in 6.0 mixed)

My friend, we'll call him Bob (all names have been changed to protect the innocent, and the stupid) is a 3.5 He's in his early 50s, relatively athletic, short, stocky but muscular. He's been a 3.5 for two years and was a 3.0 for a number of years prior to that. He doesn't win terribly often, often due to his mental game, but has decent strokes and an OK serve (we're talking ~70mph, maybe 75 tops).

Bob had a 6.0 mixed league match last night. He was playing with his 2.5 female partner, and they were playing another 3.5 male/2.5 female combo. They won the match 6-0, 6-4. The opposing male was missing a ton of shots and they generally played high percentage tennis, no picking on anyone or any of that.

Last night, Bob received an email from his female opponent's husband (who was not at the match). We'll call her Sara, and the husband John. John played on Bob's 3.5 team in the spring, though they didn't play together at all, they are acquainted. Below is the email he received, verbatim except for name changes:
**Begin email**

Bob,

I understand you hit your first serve at my wife full throttle tonight. That makes you a worthless piece of crap. I can't wait until the next time I see you, we have a score to settle. 6.0 doubles is about learning and developing a love for the game. You owe my wife an apology.

I have told everyone of my friends and past teammates what a wonderful group of guys I met and played with at Tennis Community where match was played. I didn't realize I should have excepted one little *******.

If you would like to discuss your actions, my cell phone is xxx-xxxx. Better yet you can call Sara and apologize at xxx-xxxx.

If you don't want to apologize, I'll see you soon.

John

**End email**

Not only did John send this to Bob, he sent it to everyone's email from their shared 3.5 team that most all play at that tennis community.

I spoke with Bob this morning and confirmed he didn't drill Sara at the net, hit any overheads at her, etc. In fact, the tennis pro of this community (who is the nicest guy ever), watched their first set and congratulated Bob after the match indicating Bob played very smart, good tennis.

So not only does this guy berate Bob for having the gall to hit a full first serve in a league match (sarcasm), he effectively threatens the guy for doing so, and in front of an audience by CC'ing a whole bunch of uninvolved folks. I encouraged Bob to pass it on to the USTA and let them deal with it.

Ironically, Bob is an attorney and works for the court system, so he's probably the wrong guy to threaten, passively or otherwise. That, and I'm 99% sure Bob could kick this guy's ass, should he ever reduce himself to that level. :-D

I honestly don't know why that guy would take the time to E-mail that and spread lies like that. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding? You and that one pro guy could maybe talk to him and see if it was a mistake, considering he watched the whole match like you said. If that doesn't work out, you should just pass it on to the USTA like you said.

If I got an email like that, I would definitely make it a point to drill her at least once next time I played her in a mixed match.

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LOL, tempting. Or, hit him next opportunity in a match. My wife's reaction (she doesn't play tennis, but always lends a balanced perspective) was that the guy was being a sexist idiot for expecting an opponent to hit lightly at his wife because she's a woman. When I pointed out that he had CC'd his wife on the email, she pointed out that obviously the wife is an idiot too.

I honestly don't know why that guy would take the time to E-mail that and spread lies like that. Maybe it was just a misunderstanding? You and that one pro guy could maybe talk to him and see if it was a mistake, considering he watched the whole match like you said. If that doesn't work out, you should just pass it on to the USTA like you said.

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I don't know that it was a lie, per se. I assume Bob was hitting full first serves to her, it's just that the serve in question really doesn't have a ton of pace behind it, and it is, in fact, a competitive match.

I wasn't at the match unfortunately, but have heard the sufficient details from enough folks to have a good understanding of the situation. And in the email itself, the guy was only complaining about a serve, it's not like his wife was drilled in the face by an overhead...

Bob asked me not to confront the guy. Bob's a good friend and I only know this guy by sight. That said, I'm pretty direct and think this guy is a complete *******, so I'm not sure how much that would mitigate the situation.

The guys wife isn't cut out for league tennis. There is way worse things that could happen than hard serves. She needs to stick to clinics and 2.5 ladies doubles if she isn't going to accept that opponents will play their hardest to win.

If I were him, or you, I'd print out his email and post it in the clubs locker room when you know he'll be there. He'd feel so small.

Wow, I would laugh if I got that e-mail. But I have seen some 3.5s that are better than many 4.0s. They really shouldn't be in competition with 2.5 beginner women. Seems like there is a huge gap in ability there.

The guys wife isn't cut out for league tennis. There is way worse things that could happen than hard serves. She needs to stick to clinics and 2.5 ladies doubles if she isn't going to accept that opponents will play their hardest to win.

If I were him, or you, I'd print out his email and post it in the clubs locker room when you know he'll be there. He'd feel so small.

Fwiw, great thread title. Hope you post more, good stuff.

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Agreed. As far as printing the email and posting it, hell, the guy CC'd ~10 people that play there anyway. Apparently he feels completely justified in his response.

There feels like there's an underlying current of misguided white trash chivalry (we're in the south, and this guy gives off a bit of that vibe) going on. I'm not sure if I should be amused or appalled.

Wow, I would laugh if I got that e-mail. But I have seen some 3.5s that are better than many 4.0s. They really shouldn't be in competition with 2.5 beginner women. Seems like there is a huge gap in ability there.

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While I don't necessarily disagree, that's usually the combination you see being competitive and winning in 6.0 mixed. It's exceedingly common around here. And the male opponent they were playing has beaten Bob to the tune of 1&1 in the past. Bob is by no means a stand out 3.5 In fact, Bob's partner didn't return one of their male opponent's serves the whole match. The opponent has a very big kick serve. That's part of it and understood.

Seems like the gap is perhaps less in ability than it is in perspective and expectations. As floridatennisdude put it, she needs to stay out of league play if she expects people to hold back on the court.

The worst part is that Bob is an extremely nice guy. The email kept him up last night as he was pretty upset about it. That said, he knows he did absolutely nothing wrong.

Agreed. As far as printing the email and posting it, hell, the guy CC'd ~10 people that play there anyway. Apparently he feels completely justified in his response.

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Maybe, but if some of the 4.0+ players saw the kind of nonsense he is rambling about, they'd get a kick out of it. I would at least.

Then again, you already posted it on a world wide message board for the tennis world to reflect on. Perhaps you could reply all to those that received it with a link to this thread. Then when he sees that a couple dozen folks call him out, he can choose to defend himself or not. He probably would. And I would thoroughly enjoy the commentary to follow.

If you take it easy on her then she gets the return back, then you lose the advantage. Anything is liable to happen, let's assume she returns an easy serve and you net the volley or your partner muffs the overhead, then you suddenly find yourself down break point. So, what then just keep serving up meatballs for her? Then after being Mr. Nice Guy and you lose the match, you have to listen to smug comments about how nice your game is and it was just a few points here and there, it could have gone either way..yada yada yada.... Don't you just love Tennis?...yadayada.
And, I'm sure her husband would have praised her for returning Bob's awesome serve. I've seen that dude's serve before, man how did you return it honey?

Sounds like Bob doesn't have that kind of variety to turn it on and off and still keep the momentum going. Better to serve the ball like you usually do. Don't take it easy!
Other than hit and giggle Tennis, I don't do mixed doubles.

Maybe, but if some of the 4.0+ players saw the kind of nonsense he is rambling about, they'd get a kick out of it. I would at least.

Then again, you already posted it on a world wide message board for the tennis world to reflect on. Perhaps you could reply all to those that received it with a link to this thread. Then when he sees that a couple dozen folks call him out, he can choose to defend himself or not. He probably would. And I would thoroughly enjoy the commentary to follow.

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Hmmm, that may be an impossible temptation to resist if I have a couple beers tonight, lol.

If you take it easy on her then she gets the return back, then you lose the advantage. Anything is liable to happen, let's assume she returns an easy serve and you net the volley or your partner muffs the overhead, then you suddenly find yourself down break point. So, what then just keep serving up meatballs for her? Then after being Mr. Nice Guy and you lose the match, you have to listen to smug comments about how nice your game is and it was just a few points here and there, it could have gone either way..yada yada yada.... Don't you just love Tennis?...yadayada.
And, I'm sure her husband would have praised her for returning Bob's awesome serve. I've seen that dude's serve before, man how did you return it honey?

Sounds like Bob doesn't have that kind of variety to turn it on and off and still keep the momentum going. Better to serve the ball like you usually do. Don't take it easy!
Other than hit and giggle Tennis, I don't do mixed doubles.

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Yep. Bob's game is not terribly versatile and I really think backing off his serve would screw him up royally.

WOW the drama that USTA matches bring. I don't really like playing mixed for this reason as well as some others. Women take it more serious than the men they also make way more bad calls. I try really hard not to hit the ladies but one match the lady called so many things out that were clearly in and I let it get to me. I also found out on a change over that she was playing with her future husband who I am friendly with and a pretty good tennis player. I can hit a really hard serve when I want to so I started bringing the heat and she got very scared but started calling more balls out. My partner really got me jacked up as well so I served harder hitting her in the chest twice on serves that were in I also hit the male player with a good serve. He fealt the need to take it to another level and wanted to change sports to mma. That is not what I wanted to do but ok I am really good at that much better than I am at tennis for sure. Before long he totaly punked out and just ran his mouth and we won that much very easy 6-0 in the last set. Itry to limit my mixed to higer level when I can the better ladies can really play.

I can hit a really hard serve when I want to so I started bringing the heat and she got very scared but started calling more balls out. My partner really got me jacked up as well so I served harder hitting her in the chest twice on serves that were in I also hit the male player with a good serve. He fealt the need to take it to another level and wanted to change sports to mma. That is not what I wanted to do but ok I am really good at that much better than I am at tennis for sure. Before long he totaly punked out and just ran his mouth and we won that much very easy 6-0 in the last set.

Well, I think that you pretty much have your responses to this question. Husband is an idiot, and should really keep out of it.

At that level, yes, I think the guy sometimes should hold off on the serve to the much weaker woman in order to keep it competitive. Hit a spin serve, it is as good as a winner for this level. The guy should also hold off on strong net moves toward the woman, as there is a risk of injury to the woman.

Having said all of that - tennis is tennis, and at lower levels in mixed the woman should take all precautions to take this out of play. If she is not comfy at the net, stand back. You cannot expect a man to play soft all the time, as it takes away from their ability to finish points.

In mixed, at any level, very seldom do you see guys trying to "hurt" females. But yes, they do hit the given shot. And that should be expected - at any level.

Husband is an idiot, and deserves any token play at him the next time on the court. Making this issue a community issue is all you need to fire you up. He made a very, very poor decision. Wife should not play, and he should watch is b898ls next time out.

bob is clearly a moron. however, he kinda has a point. if u are an athletic 3.5 male u shouldnt really be bombing serves at 2.5 women.

i kno its league play but if ur gonna play such mismatched mixed u gotta have a bit of common sense

if u wanna play full-on then pick a league with players closer to ur own level

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The essence of mixed is the imbalance, and the tactical adjustments you make to compensate for that imbalance. There is no "common sense" to backing off your game. With ANY 3.5 man's serve, standing behind the baseline, she has plenty of time to either get out of the way or to try to make a play. Remember, this is league, not social.

The essence of mixed is the imbalance, and the tactical adjustments you make to compensate for that imbalance. There is no "common sense" to backing off your game. With ANY 3.5 man's serve, standing behind the baseline, she has plenty of time to either get out of the way or to try to make a play. Remember, this is league, not social.

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For a 2.5 female, it is pretty much "social". But you go ahead an be a REAL man. I bet you can serve her off the court and feel good in doing so. :twisted:

The essence of mixed is the imbalance, and the tactical adjustments you make to compensate for that imbalance. There is no "common sense" to backing off your game. With ANY 3.5 man's serve, standing behind the baseline, she has plenty of time to either get out of the way or to try to make a play. Remember, this is league, not social.

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she's a freaking 2.5 dood

if u r going to play tennis with virtual beginners then common sense says u should be somewhat accommodating

league or no league, this is basically social tennis. if u were a 3.5 who wanted competitive matchplay u wouldnt be playin against a team where one person cant even return most of ur shots

In social tennis always hit top-spin serves to the ladies, that way you don't look bad and they still can't return them. If you're lucky one man get stuck up their dress. (typo, I meant "may" get stuck up their dress, but I'll leave it for it's Freudian slip quality).

1. As a 2.5 myself, I cannot imagine expecting an opponent, male or female, to take something off his or her serve just because I am the opponent. I would find that insulting.

2. Having threatened Bob publicly, John should now hope and pray that nothing untoward happens to Bob; if it does, John will be the first suspect.

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1: Exactly. And its likely why you'll progress past a 2.5, versus someone who wants to ***** and moan every time they have to play someone better than them. Inherently, if you're playing 6.0 mixed and you're a 2.5, you have to know the majority of people on the court are going to be better than you.

2: Agreed. Especially as Bob is well liked, highly regarded and has lots of friends who would step up on his behalf any day.

Well, I think that you pretty much have your responses to this question. Husband is an idiot, and should really keep out of it.

At that level, yes, I think the guy sometimes should hold off on the serve to the much weaker woman in order to keep it competitive. Hit a spin serve, it is as good as a winner for this level. The guy should also hold off on strong net moves toward the woman, as there is a risk of injury to the woman.

Having said all of that - tennis is tennis, and at lower levels in mixed the woman should take all precautions to take this out of play. If she is not comfy at the net, stand back. You cannot expect a man to play soft all the time, as it takes away from their ability to finish points.

In mixed, at any level, very seldom do you see guys trying to "hurt" females. But yes, they do hit the given shot. And that should be expected - at any level.

Husband is an idiot, and deserves any token play at him the next time on the court. Making this issue a community issue is all you need to fire you up. He made a very, very poor decision. Wife should not play, and he should watch is b898ls next time out.

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Yep. There is something of an, um, pool, I guess, forming among those who are friends with Bob who are more aggressive players. There may be some dollars involved with regards to "John" and him seeing what 'full throttle' means on the court.

bob is clearly a moron. however, he kinda has a point. if u are an athletic 3.5 male u shouldnt really be bombing serves at 2.5 women.

i kno its league play but if ur gonna play such mismatched mixed u gotta have a bit of common sense

if u wanna play full-on then pick a league with players closer to ur own level

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Bob is the innocent as far as I'm concerned. Again, he's closer to a high level 3.0 than he is a 3.5. He is something like 2-13 this season and he's 50-odd years old. He does not have a big serve. At all. It's a decently flat, straight serve. As others have mentioned, he'd have been better off with a slice or a big kicker, but Bob doesn't have that in his arsenal.

In social tennis always hit top-spin serves to the ladies, that way you don't look bad and they still can't return them. If you're lucky one man get stuck up their dress.

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Agreed. Too bad Bob doesn't have a kick serve.

One of my finest moments was kicking one over an opponents head in 7.0 mixed last year. It was a second serve, early in the match, she was short and trying to take the serve 4 feet inside the baseline. Ball landed deep in the service box and she watched it pass over her on the bounce with a complete look of shock. :shock:

Sounds like to me she's one of these females that want to be on the court in mixed but if a ball goes within 2 feet over her over 40 mph she thinks it's meant to do bodily harm and she conveyed this to her husband. That is the only logical explanation as to why the husband would send an email like that. He needs to learn as I did real quick. Make your wife understand as I did that all men aren't the same and when you are playing mixed you need to be prepared to not only protect yourself but fire back(hit your own overheads) when given a chance and let them know you aren't backing down. The other thing play only with men that retaliate "if needed"...meaning you can't take "every" ball that is hit your way as someone is trying to put your eye out.

LOL, tempting. Or, hit him next opportunity in a match. My wife's reaction (she doesn't play tennis, but always lends a balanced perspective) was that the guy was being a sexist idiot for expecting an opponent to hit lightly at his wife because she's a woman. When I pointed out that he had CC'd his wife on the email, she pointed out that obviously the wife is an idiot too.

Bob is the innocent as far as I'm concerned. Again, he's closer to a high level 3.0 than he is a 3.5. He is something like 2-13 this season and he's 50-odd years old. He does not have a big serve. At all. It's a decently flat, straight serve. As others have mentioned, he'd have been better off with a slice or a big kicker, but Bob doesn't have that in his arsenal.

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if u can serve a decent flat serve surely u can put a bit o slice on it and slow it down

this is why i hate 6.0 mixed. u get 3.5 men who r gung ho but skill limited, n 2.5 women who r basically beginners. not really a good pairin.

is fine as long as ppl approach it socially but as soon as u get a coupla weekend warriors thinkin theyre in the uso finals, there's inevitably tears b4 bedtime

Am I a jag for thinking this - but as a 3.5 male, one of the last things I want to do on a tennis court is play mixed doubles with a couple of 2.5 ladies? ( unless their looks are the inverse of their skill level)

"John" should buy "Bob" a drink and thank him for wasting his time on a match with his wife.

if u can serve a decent flat serve surely u can put a bit o slice on it and slow it down

this is why i hate 6.0 mixed. u get 3.5 men who r gung ho but skill limited, n 2.5 women who r basically beginners. not really a good pairin.

is fine as long as ppl approach it socially but as soon as u get a coupla weekend warriors thinkin theyre in the uso finals, there's inevitably tears b4 bedtime

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Dude, not the 3.5 guys fault. He also had a 2.5 lady partner. Supposed to be fairly competitive pairings in mixed. Just seems like Sara is a sore loser. League tennis has an expectation of "playing to win" and Sara clearly wasn't up for the challenge.

It is very telling that John would send an email like that--where he calls Bob names and makes veiled threats--without having seen the match! John definitely has issues, and as upsetting as getting an email like that would be, I think the best response would be a figurative "whatever."

Seriously, a 2.5 woman should not be on the same court as a 3.5 man. A 2.5 woman is a beginner. A 3.5 man is a crapshoot - might be a senior citizen with craft but little mobility or power, or a young gun with power and athleticism but no control. The latter vs a 2.5 woman is a recipe for disaster.

Your first priority is to figure out how not to get people mad at you. This is difficult. You're not allowed to play too well, but never appear to tank either. Winning the set is not even on the table, you've got way too many other things to think about. If everyone shakes hands at the end of the set, give yourself a pat on the back. You did it!

As a woman who plays mixed, I find it annoying that some guys will not serve their best serves to the woman. I have partners who blast the serve to the opposing guy but who won't unleash their best stuff on the woman. Then when she gets into the point and breaks him, he looks like an idiot.

Meanwhile, I feel like my male opponents are perfectly happy to crack aces at me all night.

Come on, boys. You are not going to hurt the woman with your serve if she has binocular vision, the use of both legs and a racket in her hand. Serve your best serves, hold, and let's win this thing.

As a woman who plays mixed, I find it annoying that some guys will not serve their best serves to the woman. I have partners who blast the serve to the opposing guy but who won't unleash their best stuff on the woman. Then when she gets into the point and breaks him, he looks like an idiot.

Meanwhile, I feel like my male opponents are perfectly happy to crack aces at me all night.

Come on, boys. You are not going to hurt the woman with your serve if she has binocular vision, the use of both legs and a racket in her hand. Serve your best serves, hold, and let's win this thing.

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When I used to play mixed, I had a mentality that I should win points serving to the female. If I were able to do that, I felt that I only needed to win one point against the guy in order to hold. I never held back. Never got complaints either, but I never played lower than 7.0 mixed. Never have taken the court in a league match with a female lower than a 3.0.

The only time I come across mixed anymore is in social mixers. I don't serve true first serves to anyone at those. It is better entertainment to get into rallies and extend points with all players involved when win/loss is irrelevant. Sara and John are better suited to this environment.

What a funny story. I think I tend to agree with the poster that said this can be an issue with a 3.5 man and 2.5 woman. 2.5 is a total newb and really shouldn't be playing 6.0 mixed in a competitive league (especially if they are going to ***** about having to return a guys fast serve).

Chip knew he should take it easy on Jane, his female opponent. After all, it was just a friendly Sunday afternoon mixed doubles match in a friendly tennis league. But, it was during the changeovers that he overheard several comments "just block his serve back let his partner muff the volley" "when he hits a second serve he gets shakey" " his serve is so weak, we can break him now and close out the set" okay?
"Taking it easy" Chip muttered now the score is 5-5. Chip decided it was time to amp up his serve to 70 mph, no more meatball 30 mph serves, the result was an easy service win, now it was time for Jane to feel the heat. Let's break her serve Chip said to Alice and they managed to put pressure on Jane's powder puff serves, trading deuce and add scores several times, finally breaking serve when he placed a lob just over Jane's. They managed to close out the next game on Alice's service game and won the first set. 7-5.
Chip and Alice kept up the same agressive strategy and won the next set 6-2 and the match, 7-5, 6-2.
At the Tennis Lounge, Chip graciously indulged the commentary about the first set and the close 7-5 score, while privately thinking this is B$#@@ht taking it easy.

It was then Chip decided he was finished playing the mixed doubles league. "sure hit and giggle mixed doubles and even nicer if playing with some hot babes, yes, but not in a competitive league"