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The important thing to remember is when you need it the members of this forum will pull together and offer the support you need .

I have heard the criticism you make many a time on here and when asked my answer is always the same , would you want a forum without some spice or without color ? I certainly wouldn't . The people on here with strong personality's are not going to swoon and fade away if you engage them word for word when you disagree or feel slighted .

I'm for keeping the forum interesting and a site that values free speech and freedom to reply . I do realize though that a user generated content forum isn't for everybody .

After the attack fest that I endured on this thread http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45777.0 I will no longer be posting on this forum. I don't associate with Bitchy Queens in my personal life and I certainly am not going to do it here. There are about four people on here that think they rule on this forum and while they have been around a while their cattiness is rude and offensive.Billy

Talk about starting a thread that will be sure to cause bitchiness!!!!

The secret Cabal has reared its head again. Not sure if I'm a card carrying member of that organization yet, but it doesn't matter; I can hold my own.

These forums are in many ways similar to what we experience in real life. Sometimes you have to accept that peoples' personalities won't always mesh. You can either figure out how to coexist, or continue having conflicts. I make a concerted effort to understand where people are coming from if I don't initially "click" with them.

I doubt there is anyone here who hasn't used bad judgment or expressed things in a less than civil manner. Sometimes evening leading to timeouts...."guilty as charged" on that count.

But in the deepest darkest moments, the majority of the people here will do anything and everything to assist one another. But they won't accept BS and will promptly call people on it.

Sheesh Billy, I read the link you provided. It seems you're a bit sensitive. If that is enough to chase you away from here then so be it. I just fail to see where the problem is.

And to the OP, creating a thread bitching about forum members being "bitchy" says what? In the perfect world I live in I still run into people I disagree with or who come across in a way that seems "bitchy".

Sheesh Billy, I read the link you provided. It seems you're a bit sensitive. If that is enough to chase you away from here then so be it.

Agree with Skeebo. It seems you are a bit sensitive. If something like this would drive you away, then chances are you will not last long here, or on any public forum for that matter.

I'm not attacking you but I think maybe you need to grow a thicker skin, most of us had to at first. We all have been disagreed with or even attacked here in the forums and while it's not always pleasant it's just the nature of the beast.

I hope you will stay. I would hate to see you lose out on the wealth of information, camaraderie, and support this place has to offer.

jg1962,No they are trolling for a argument and I don't have time in my life for negative people.Last post,Billy

Billy -- as the person whose financial life was bettered by you and your advice regarding co-pays for the insured and a fellow I/T regimen user, I invite you to simply put those whom you find most negative on Ignore (yikes, do we still have that option?) and if not available, then just ignore them.

Yep, wording -- perhaps even my own sometimes might be off-putting unintentionally (when mine's intentional I don't hide it) -- but don't let it keep you from being here and contributing. I read the thread and see what was probably the straw that broke the thread for you.

As to the OP of this thread, I know there are up's and down's here. I've been "clonked" by a couple of people here over the years and I try to see if what they have to say has merit, is bullshit or I'm undecided. Just like family, some of the interactions have waned, improved or I've never engaged them again. There are a couple of topics I never discuss because it's like setting off a bomb -- but that is navigational and there's enough benefit to be had here -- in all forms and levels -- that I'm not going to stop posting if someone pisses me off. In short, please reconsider.

After the attack fest that I endured on this thread http://forums.poz.com/index.php?topic=45777.0 I will no longer be posting on this forum. I don't associate with Bitchy Queens in my personal life and I certainly am not going to do it here. There are about four people on here that think they rule on this forum and while they have been around a while their cattiness is rude and offensive.Billy

I will never understand how 4 awful members renders an entire site as hostile. To me, the "Bitchy Queens" comment tells me a lot. Not about the forums, but about you as a person. Maybe it's just me, but when I feel slighted, my goal is to not insult others, but to understand what has happened. When you resort to calling folks names, I lose a lot of respect for your opinion.

When you decide to leave a forum of thousands of members, because four of them are mean to you, then I lose respect for your judgement.

I read the thread link. That seemed to go as well as a thread could go. I thought members would be questioning your education or intelligence. I've seen that used often times, as a way to get at someone. But, I didn't see that.

Yes, there are some who seem to look for fights here. And, some members have anything they say met with applause and like Moses brought it down from the mountain..lol. But, most here are just looking for good dialogue. They respectfully disagree. They try to make sure what they write won't come off the wrong way. The vast majority are nice and helpful. You both make valid points about civility and behavior here at times. However, you didn't provide examples of that.

If you have a problem with somebody , take it up with them or use the report button . Better yet , if you feel you are too good to get your hands dirty just be willing to take the high road and don't read or respond to things that you find upsetting .

Since this is only my opinion I'm going to add a smiley face because I'm not mad , just rather perplexed why adults have to use innuendo to call out a few folks instaed of just saying who it is that's brought such misery to your life you cant even speak their name . . Personally I think this thread is ill conceived but since its here , what ever .

If you have a problem with somebody , take it up with them or use the report button . Better yet , if you feel you are too good to get your hands dirty just be willing to take the high road and don't read or respond to things that you find upsetting .

It is a bit hard to un-read something

"Bitchy" was the only word that came to mind as I was reading a thread. While I could have found a different word, at the time it was fitting.

As far as getting my hands dirty, it would do no good to directly flame another user.

Let me change my point of reference for a scosh.

When I first found out I was POZ, I went to my local AIDS resource center. (ARCW) I attended a support group so I could get up to speed on what to expect. It was a terrible experience. I was the only person in the group and the moderator presented this disease as something that I might as well give up on because there was no hope.

I then turned to this site.

I basically lived here for months, asking questions, learning from others and shedding a many tear as I read threads in silence.

At that time on the site, I had never witness crass comments from other users. It was a Godsend.

It just seems sad to me that a site that very well saved my life seems to have a couple folks that seem to remind me of my moderator of that support group. While his/her intentions were probably not to alienate the OP and other comments, wording responses in a way that are constructive would seem to be better than coming off as "Bitchy".

I hope you realize that the term "Bitchy" is relative to the reader, not what you believe the word to signify. I also find your reference to the forum being like one moderator to be offensive. I've been with these forums for over 12 years and I've made plenty of mistakes, but I don't generalize about people or places.

If you want to leave the forums, you don't need to ask permission to do so. To try and blame a few individuals, for how you are feeling, is simply unfair. Maybe, if you were more secure in who and what you are, you would not find it so threatening to be challenged by forceful members. A tougher skin would surely help. Just wait and see what life has in store for you.

Joe

edited to add:

In reality, if your major problem was with how some responses were worded, you would not have posted the comments you have. You came into this thread looking for a "pissing match" and you can't spin it any other way.

I get really frustrated by these threads, which hint at bullying or a core group of awful people yet don't name names. If a person plans to exit the forum, why not name names? Because otherwise, anyone who has responded to the poster wonders if s/he is being referenced.

This creates an atmosphere hostile to ANY controversy or dispute, as it's entirely possible to edit a comment down to meaninglessness as to not upset a sensitive poster.

As much progress as we have made in HIV treatment and as far as we have come towards overcoming stigma, this remains a disease that does not treat kindly those with sensitive hearts. We will all, sooner or later, be judged and judged harshly for our infection - often by someone we thought loved us, knew us. If a relative stranger on a public message board can cause such distress, then I submit the road ahead will be riddled with stones.

I looked over the thread in question, and honestly I found the response to the individual concerned about loss of sexual health to be borderline dismissive and insensitive. I was and am more than a little surprised that the OP in this thread found our responses out of line, as we were more or less reacting to the OP's tone and trying to reassure someone in what he perceived to be crisis that it was not, in fact, a non-issue.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I get really frustrated by these threads, which hint at bullying or a core group of awful people yet don't name names. If a person plans to exit the forum, why not name names? Because otherwise, anyone who has responded to the poster wonders if s/he is being referenced.

This creates an atmosphere hostile to ANY controversy or dispute, as it's entirely possible to edit a comment down to meaninglessness as to not upset a sensitive poster.

As much progress as we have made in HIV treatment and as far as we have come towards overcoming stigma, this remains a disease that does not treat kindly those with sensitive hearts. We will all, sooner or later, be judged and judged harshly for our infection - often by someone we thought loved us, knew us. If a relative stranger on a public message board can cause such distress, then I submit the road ahead will be riddled with stones.

I looked over the thread in question, and honestly I found the response to the individual concerned about loss of sexual health to be borderline dismissive and insensitive. I was and am more than a little surprised that the OP in this thread found our responses out of line, as we were more or less reacting to the OP's tone and trying to reassure someone in what he perceived to be crisis that it was not, in fact, a non-issue.

Then PLEASE name names! If I am a bully, I don't know it - but vague accusations certainly make me wonder. I am sure I am not the only one who thinks this. Well, the only one who posts regularly, anyhow.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Every once in a while, a thread is posted that causes me to ponder it excessively. This one caused me to really delve into the importance specifically for me.

Not being dramatic, but I'm convinced this place and more importantly, the people here saved my life. I joined at my darkest deepest moment virtually on the verge of not fighting any longer. Wracked with illness and disease and having no one to empathize with my plight sunk me into the depth of depression.

Loosing friends one by one for over 20 years was difficult and at times more trying than I could barely handle. Then to suddenly be the last one living and virtually alone was more than I was willing to deal with.

I haven't shared this next bit too often because I view it in hindsight with self shame. That grief led me to make some serious errors of judgment that once again put me on death's doorstep. The only difference that time was that I no longer cared or had the strength to fight back.

When my blindness episode started getting better, my doctor gave me a copy of POZ magazine. Little did I know how huge that would impact my life. At the time, I had never communicated in any kind of forums or even have a FB account.

What I discovered here were a whole bunch of folks who completely understood and cared enough to help me through some crisises. That is also why I find it important for me to try and welcome each new member and throw some positive energy their way. Overall, my experiences have been far better than the few negatives.

I also noticed some people who had strong personalities and I was initially "put off" by them. But, I tried hard to understand where they were coming from. We all bring our individual life experiences with us to these forums. I had a few battles but quickly discovered that I truly cared more about the majority of the people here than the few whom I initially disliked.

But these same people were also the ones that I tried to understand the most. One of those people I met at one of our gatherings and I discovered that I actually liked him. And the few others have slowly become meaningful in other ways.

But this entire thread is a disservice to those others who may just be watching on the side lines not ready to make that important first step of joining. I certainly hope there is not single person out there who is in the same place that I was who doesn't continue here because of reading how nasty and bitchy the folks here are.

I know that people often come here feeling isolated, all alone, without anyone to listen and help. But to participate in these forums necessitates leaving one's comfort zone and realizing that s/he is a member of a group, and not a patient or an underling. The newest member has many things to offer, and can learn from the most seasoned (which might be a code word for bitchy) person here.

Moreover, all of the bitchiest people are real. Real people, who often are going through some spectacularly hard times. Instead of writing people off as bitchy, isn't it a better use of time and emotion to peruse their posting history and find out where their perspective stems?

This place requires a give and take, and often I find the people who have the hardest time fitting in also have the hardest time moving from an attitude of need to one of empathy. Instead of bristling and writing off an entire site (best of luck finding a better forum BTW) why not MAKE it a better site?

It's like when someone complains constantly about the lack of a support group where they live, yet they refuse to START one. Complain about a doctor's lack of concern, yet seem incapable to finding a replacement. Complain about bitchiness, in a bitchy passive-aggressive way, yet refuse to be part of the positive paradigm.

I remember a couple of years ago, volunteering for a Pride event here in Atlanta. I was approached, with my low-level volunteer tee shirt, by an older gentleman with a beer in hand and a scowl on his face. He proceeded to berate me for the change in venue, the change of date, the lack of more diversity, basically the whole deal.

I asked him why he didn't volunteer, and propose (or at least understand) the changes. He became even more irate. He accused me of being part of the Stuff That's Wrong, and he said he was too busy, he'd done enough, he was too old, rattled off a litany of reasons why he couldn't give back.

There are always reasons why you can't provide the same support and help and empathy you demand from others. Always. You are too tired. You are too young/old. You've lost people, or you haven't lost anyone at all. But this site provides an opportunity for people to become part of an online community. And like every community, there are obligations and responsibilities as well as benefits.

You don't like the paradigm? Change it, accept status quo (recipe for bitterness) or leave and find, or better yet FOUND your own alternative. I get that not all of us are going to be spokespersons or AIDS ambassadors. But please don't dismiss the efforts and the real life trials of those who take the time to participate here. Try moving outside your paradigm, which though comfortable, is also really, really, really selfish.

In short, bring shit to the pot luck before you complain about the quality of the food.

We might be doing things wrong. But we're doing things, often in the face of crippling (in some cases, literally crippling) adversity.

Sorry, I think I might need to cool down from this thread. It's been a resurging thing almost every few months in the ten years I've been on this forum. It's almost always caused by the same non-issues, and almost always caused by people who seem unwilling or incapable of becoming part of a community.

Maybe the initial thread introducing people to this forum should read "Welcome to AIDSMEDS. Grab a hammer and start working."

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

In all honesty, I'm actually kind of known by my boss, my partner, and others as a little bit "bitchy" about things.... I think it is low-T (that would be low-T as in tolerance.... low tolerance for B.S, poor service, general stupidity, slow drivers, people who try to get on the elevator before I get off, people who don't know how to talk on the cell phone and drive at the same time, people who take up more than one parking space, people who delay me from getting my cigarettes because they are buying way too many Powerball tickets, slow bartenders when I am out of Corona, people who I don't know that sit next to me on planes and insist on trying to have a conversation with me, slow cashiers when I am at the grocery store, waiting in line for my scripts...... and the list goes on and on and on and on and on)....

Yep, I'm pretty much an asshole.

That said, I'm grateful that I have these forums and I have received an immeasurable amount of support so many times (when I first arrived, when my father died, when I was battling the dayummm syphilis and post lumbar headache, etc, etc)...... And, I hope that I have been able to be supportive of others...

The forums are just an extension of life --- with many different personalities, moods, and backgrounds - with fluctuations that emulate what goes on outside of this "virtual world."

I rather enjoy coming here and being able to experience a range of emotions all in one place.... it would be quite a drab place if everyone entered or stayed around and was happy and shiny all the time - it wouldn't be very reflective of life.

Then PLEASE name names! If I am a bully, I don't know it - but vague accusations certainly make me wonder. I am sure I am not the only one who thinks this. Well, the only one who posts regularly, anyhow.

Well OK then.

I quit this site years ago, jkinatl, because I felt bullied and attacked by you. I still read the forums, but have not participated, with the exception of a post to honor my dear departed Moffie, because I just can't deal with your pseudoscientific bullshit.

And it's not just me. I've seen you attack people over and over when you disagree with them. While I've been tempted to chime in as to just why I quit participating here on several occasions, but this is the first time you've directly asked, so I feel compelled to answer.

I shall now retreat back into my cave.

Oh, and for those who know me and care, I'm been doing very well these past few years.

A couple of members read what you wrote to a NEW member on here, about his ED. Several of us found it dismissive. Several of us.

Rather than consider this insight into your comment, you dug in your heals. Twice. You seem stuck in a rather odd and dismissive mindset about ED. The OP certainly didn't need that. And some of us felt your repeated blindspot about how it was dismissive, even offensive, and your digging in of the heals, comical.

Nobody questioned you personally or attacked you, we just didn't think that your dismissals had much to say to the OP, or anyone facing ED for that matter. Your argument was downright weird and the info was unhelpful.

You want this to be your opinion about ED, so be it. Nobody has to agree with you, and nobody is being a bully by pointing out its a bit self-centered as advice goes, to another person:The fact that he doesn't have any other troubles except that he might feel emasculated just doesn't cut it with me me as a reason the change meds

« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 10:17:40 PM by mecch »

Logged

“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Probably a good idea, I find it a bit strange that you came back after many years just to have a go at one of our respected member, sound's like somene is spoiling for a fight, but I know JK is above all that and can be the better man.

I can y'all one thing, come here to dine and don't expect no bland meals. Yeah we serve up warmth and hugs but we also add fun, pun, spice and flavor to our menu selections!

This might be my sadistic side, but I kinda enjoyed this thread. It kept me busy all evening. Laying around day after day gets so boring. I've even stopped online shopping because it lost its excitement.

I quit this site years ago, jkinatl, because I felt bullied and attacked by you. I still read the forums, but have not participated, with the exception of a post to honor my dear departed Moffie, because I just can't deal with your pseudoscientific bullshit.

And it's not just me. I've seen you attack people over and over when you disagree with them. While I've been tempted to chime in as to just why I quit participating here on several occasions, but this is the first time you've directly asked, so I feel compelled to answer.

I shall now retreat back into my cave.

Oh, and for those who know me and care, I'm been doing very well these past few years.

-Whizzer

Having been a member of this forum since October 2005, I've been on the end of the stick with Jonathan on a few occasions. But, I have to say, I respect everything he is about and the time and effort he puts forth on this forum. His knowledge is vast, and I've never felt the need to attack him the way you have.

To mention Moffie, who loved Jonathan dearly, in part of your reply speaks volumes about your character. He would be pissed...

Yes, crawl back into your cave where you belong.

Skeebo

PS. I read your last exchange with Jonathan and if that's why you left then you have some serious issues. I hope you get that worked out.

I heard its hard to find the stem ... I didnt mean that bitchy though .

Oh please! the stem is massive. It's the grapes underneath that are less than impressive. Sometimes it looks like 2 beans in a pair of panty hose. And I am very sensitive about this. STOP ATTACKING ME. Dont make me post pictars.

Oh please! the stem is massive. It's the grapes underneath that are less than impressive. Sometimes it looks like 2 beans in a pair of panty hose. And I am very sensitive about this. STOP ATTACKING ME. Dont make me post pictars.

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

I quit this site years ago, jkinatl, because I felt bullied and attacked by you. I still read the forums, but have not participated, with the exception of a post to honor my dear departed Moffie, because I just can't deal with your pseudoscientific bullshit.

And it's not just me. I've seen you attack people over and over when you disagree with them. While I've been tempted to chime in as to just why I quit participating here on several occasions, but this is the first time you've directly asked, so I feel compelled to answer.

I shall now retreat back into my cave.

Oh, and for those who know me and care, I'm been doing very well these past few years.

-Whizzer

I am puzzled. Pseudoscientific? Please elaborate. Take another four years if you have to. I must be awfully powerful to have such an impact on you.

BTW, Moffie was my dear friend. He more than encouraged my "pseudoscience."

I looked for a place where we had a fight. ALl I found was a brief exchange where you asked Ann and I to repost our oral sex/safer sex studies, and we both expressed exasperation as having posted them several times, quite recently (in 2007.)

Was it bullying? Dunno. I called you disingenuous, which I did not think counted as more than a verbal swirly.

However, I DID stumble across this horrible thing I did:

Quote

Who welcomed me? A whole host of people, most of them what some would consider to be old-timers. It was Moffie who sent me roses and told me how glad he was I didn't jump in front of a bus. Alanbama, JK, RAB, Joe and a whole bunch of others that I no longer remember helped me muddle my way through, assuring me it would get better when I just KNEW I was never going to be able to deal with this. I really regret not going back and printing out those first posts before the old forum went away. Their words at that time were uplifting, calming, and inspiring to me. To have contact with folks who had lived with HIV about as long as I ever knew about the disease gave me great hope for the future.

Hope the rock is a comfortable place. I cannot imagine how hard the world must be when the exchanges I found warrant your fleeing the site altogether, except of course to come back for these wonderful conversations.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Having been a member of this forum since October 2005, I've been on the end of the stick with Jonathan on a few occasions. But, I have to say, I respect everything he is about and the time and effort he puts forth on this forum. His knowledge is vast, and I've never felt the need to attack him the way you have.

To mention Moffie, who loved Jonathan dearly, in part of your reply speaks volumes about your character. He would be pissed...

Yes, crawl back into your cave where you belong.

Skeebo

PS. I read your last exchange with Jonathan and if that's why you left then you have some serious issues. I hope you get that worked out.

Thanks, Skeebo. YOu have always had my respect as well.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Spacebarsux, sharing the virus I think does equate to sharing many feelings, problems and obstacles in life. Opinions in non related HIV matters are of a totally different nature so surely we will have diverse thoughts in regard to those.

Anyway, I can kind of understand where the OP is coming from BUT I think most of the people here are just great and there has been some healthy replies on how to go forward and deal with it.

I want to second what jg1962 said, when the going gets tough, despite of what we we might think about each other the support will be there unconditionally. I will give it and I hope I can count on others to be there for me as well. To me AM is more than just a internet forum.

Spacebarsux, sharing the virus I think does equate to sharing many feelings, problems and obstacles in life. Opinions in non related HIV matters are of a totally different nature so surely we will have diverse thoughts in regard to those.

Though HIV+ people face similar obstacles, the way people handle specific predicaments is what leads to disagreements.

Disclosure debates on here are a prime example of this.

People's personalities don't undergo a sudden transformation upon diagnosis. Just because HIV+ people are often presented with similar problems doesn't mean they approach all situations the same way.

People are people. And people will have differences regardless of a common virus.