14 comments:

People pretending that him being in the leadership slot will somehow change the underlying reality of things, LOL it won't.He's a pretty face to fool people who are eminently fool-able to begin with. Tell me, what exactly does he bring to the table? Is it a vision or a name? People are so gullible.....

The best we can say here is that he will have little chance of causing more damage to Canada than his former member of the Communist Party lawyer father did, and it's equally unlikely his wife will cause him more embarrassment than his rock star groupie mother did his father.

Yes I do. What does he bring to the table? Well, where to begin. He brings light in the face of the dark night of deception Stephen Harper has issued in. Campaigning on being tough on crime while cutting funding for the RCMP, the gang task force and for the prisons. Campaigning on being fiscally responsible then giving $65 billion to the banks, denying he did while cutting pensions and raising the age of retirement. Not to mention his insider trading jets that can’t be used in the Canadian arctic to a firm his candidate lobbied for. Justin Trudeau brings balance to the force. I personally like Mulcair very much. However I don’t like a one party system. Conservatives need an alternative to Harper’s dishonesty and his removal of Charter Rights through warrantless surveillance. The same rights Justin’s father helped entrench. Harper has become the big brother he so loudly denounces.

Well, if your point is that he will be useful as far as getting rid of Harper, OK, I can agree with that. But in the long run he too will contribute to the downward spiral.

PET didn't entrench jack shit. Canadians already had everything they "got" under the Charter, classic power grab in that a Marxist, under the guise of promoting freedom actually stole a large part of the property rights that Canadians had. Come on, when was the last time a politician, ANY politician, didn't chip away at what you have? ALL of them do it. I about fell over in surprise when the Conservatives actually dumped the long gun registry, it only took a decade or so after they campaigned on that promise. I had honestly lost all hope that they'd actually do it. Turns out it doesn't matter though, no employees of the Firearms Center have been "downsized" and I seriously doubt that the RCMP will ever actually destory al the records they gainjed as part of that, you and I both know that they do as they please, very little in the way of effective oversight/accountability there.

We’ve had this discussion about the Charter of Rights before. Although I do agree most of those rights were previously upheld in British and French common law, I do believe the charter of rights did in fact entrench those rights just like the US Constitution and Declaration of Independence did. If we had all those rights before under British common law, there would have been no need for the American Revolution.

I like the Charter of Rights. It is the kind of document that I can put on my wall and be proud of. It is something that makes me proud to be Canadian. The Bill of Rights was a prelude to it which I also feel is an inspired document. Yes it could have mentioned property rights. Yet that doesn’t diminish all the other important rights it does mention. Important rights that Harper’s warrantless surveillance is doing away with.

I didn’t realize they were successful in getting rid of the long gun registry. Fair point that is ONE promise they didn’t rescind upon election. However, they have rescinded so many other promises it has changed the nation into something that I am no longer completely proud of. That is something that needs to be repaired.

I am cynical about all this name calling referring to Trudeau as a Communist. Harper said anyone who didn’t vote for him is either a socialist or a separatist. Well I didn’t vote for Harper the second time around and I am neither. In fact, when you look at the things Harper has done, in many ways he is far more of a Communist than Trudeau ever was. Depending on your definition of Communism of course. I’m not referring to social justice, I’m referring to the Stalin style East Berlin dictatorship which in my opinion is a bad thing.

$65 billion to the banks when they didn’t need it was the biggest expenditure in Canadian history. Millions on insider trading jets that don’t work in the arctic are the next. Slashing pensions and raising the age of retirement to pay for his insider trading is a serious crime. When you spend that kind of money it creates the kind of debt that threatens our sovereignty.

I think you'll see that whatever his failings, Harper has yet to be accused of anything even remotely as communistic as what Trudeau was involved in. I was not aware of his draft dodging activities during WWII either.

Let us hope that the fruit falls further from the tree than it is reputed to do.

OMG Harper created the biggest debt in recorded history with the bank bail out and the jet scam. Harper introduced warrantless surveillance. His party stalks people's facebook accounts and bans them from his speaking engagements if they have posted pictures of themselves with other candidates. Cutting funding for the RCMP and the Gang Task force. This guy is a flaming Communist compared to Trudeau. That same toolkit BS fails when we look at who really funded dictator communism: banks and corporations. Harper is destroying the free market by helping big corporations obtain monopolies. He is opposed to small business and the free market: http://gangstersout.blogspot.ca/2011/12/harpers-corporate-communism.html

See, this is what I mean about making up your own definitions to things again. Words have actual meanings. You want to defend PET and slam Harper, cool. Try not doing the one by doing the other, it's intellectually dishonest.

We are not arguing about what Harper did because I am not disputing that he has done these things. HE HAS. OK?

THAT does NOT make him a communist. It makes him a TOTALITARIAN, such as he can get away with it. It makes him an abuser of power and corrupt. It makes him an unprepossessing pot bellied jerk with no muscle tone, and either Trudeau in question could kick his ass. (PET was into Judo.)

You seem bent on comparing Harper to PET to try an ignore the reality of who PET was and what he was about, and this kind of obfuscation is beneath you quite frankly. No one is disputing what you say about Harper, please quit acting like they are. By the same token I'll admit you successfully suckered me into responding to that the first time, allowing you to proceed as if I was saying Harper was not as bad as PET or WTTE which I was not doing to begin with.

PET was a POS. We appear to disagree on that, even though I've given you a reference to his behavior that is far less incredulous than some of the stories you tell. Fine. But we are not disagreeing on Harper, OK? That was a straw man argument you set up to defend your boy Pierre.....

I take offense to calling Pierre Elliot Trudeau a Communist when what Harper is doing to Canada is far more like what dictator Communism is. We can argue back and forth until the cows come home but my that is my position. I like the Charter of Rights and I hate what Harper is doing to Canada. He is removing our individual rights, creating this big brother to lie to us and spy on us, supports big banks and corporations obtaining monopolies on the market and screwing tax payers, firing whistleblowers left right and centre which is total censorship. Splitting hairs over whether he is a Totalitarian or a Communist is not relevant. The things he does is what he accuses Communists of doing. The big corporations is what created Communism so by that definition, Harper is way more of a Communist that Trudeau was.

I have been given a lot of slander on Trudeau senior. I haven't had the chance to read it all. I have even been told that intelligence agencies spied on him and found out he was a pedophile and used that to blackmail him into giving the Canadian intelligence agencies far too much power and no accountability whatsoever. I don't think he was a pedophile. Yet those kind of allegations are truly slanderous because once they're made, speculation arises because no one really knows what someone is like behind closed doors.

Wearing flowers or boutonnieres isn't my thing but Trudeau was French. He had class and he had style. He was a foreign diplomat. He was a dignitary. Harper is none of those things. Harper is a dishonest hillbilly taking our rights way and spending our tax dollars on insider trading and on commercials to lie to us faster than any left wing government has ever conceived of. Trudeau was the kind of guy that made me say, that's the kind of guy I'd like to represent Canada abroad. Harper is NOT. Even Chretien. I've heard a ton of slander about Chretien by the same people that say anyone who doesn't vote for Harper is a Communist. But as a person, as a human being, I liked Chretien a lot more than Brian Mulroney. Lying Brian was a scoundrel. He defrauded Canadian taxpayers out of $2.1 million out of court settlement because he lied about his relationship with Karl Schreiber and his airbus kickback.

Conservatives need to elect honest men to represent them. Stephen Harper and Brian Mulroney are not honest men. They have done far more damage to Canada then Pierre Elliot Trudeau ever has. Stephen Harper does not represent me. Justin might.

I'll help you out here. Harper is a crook. It's that simple. We can probably both agree that we look forward to Harper being replaced, he's far past his "use by" date.

Call me a pessimist but the lateness of carrying through on his promise to eliminate the long gun registry until very recently, after what, 10 years, indicates a need to keep the faithful rallied in the face of some of what he's done, and so they finally did it when they obviously didn't care to push the issue sufficient to resolve it much earlier. This is sometimes referred to as "throwing the dogs a bone."

Check the link I posted when you have a moment, it's only 6 short pages long and lists a lot of PET's early activities before he was really in the public eye the way he was later. Among other things he was a draft dodger during WW2, and the case could be made that he was, at least early on, a German sympathizer as were more than a few Frenchmen. Natural antipathy to anything British don't you know. In any event he managed to avoid "doing his bit", nothing in it for him.....

I'll check it out. A draft dodger and a German sympathizer? Sounds like the Bush Family. George Bush got his Senator father to help him jump the queue and get into the National guard to avoid going to Vietnam and he had two grandfathers get caught doing business with the Nazi's. They helped put the gas in the gas chambers. We didn't have a daft in Canada for WW2 did we? I thought it was all volunteer. It was overwhelmingly supported.

There were a LOT of industrialists doing business with Germany in the late 1930's, remember that for a lot of Americans involvement in another European war was something to be avoided and one of Hitler's biggest mistakes was to declare war on the US right after Pearl Harbor. Dec 7th 1941 is well over two years after the war started with the invasion of Poland in September 1939; Roosevelt had been looking for a way to bring America into the war and Hitler went and solved the problem for him. Point being, you had normal industrial activity going on up until that point even though the war was over two years old.

You are correct that Canada did not initially have a draft, but the war was NOT overwhelmingly supported by "Lucky Pierre". When he WAS eventually conscripted, he managed to join the COTC, which I guess would hold the place for him that the National Guard did for Bush. Both ended their service in a less than noble manner, Bush quit attending drill after he moved and Trudeau was kicked out for "lack of discipline".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Trudeau

"Trudeau earned his law degree at the Université de Montréal in 1943. During his studies he was conscripted into the Canadian Army, just like thousands of other Canadian men, as part of the National Resources Mobilization Act. When he was conscripted into the Army, he decided to join the "Canadian Officers' Training Corps", and he then served with the other conscripts in Canada, since they were not assigned to any overseas military service until after the Conscription Crisis of 1944 (after the Invasion of Normandy that June.) Before this, all Canadians serving overseas were volunteers, and not conscripts.

Trudeau said he was willing to fight during World War II, but he believed that to do so would be to turn his back on the population of Quebec that he believed had been betrayed by the government of William Mackenzie King. Trudeau reflected on his opposition to conscription and his doubts about the war in his Memoirs (1993): "So there was a war? Tough... if you were a French Canadian in Montreal in the early 1940s, you did not automatically believe that this was a just war... we tended to think of this war as a settling of scores among the superpowers."[6]

In a Outremont by-election in 1942, Trudeau campaigned for the anticonscription candidate Jean Drapeau (later the Mayor of Montreal), and he was thenceforth expelled from the Officers' Training Corps for lack of discipline. The National Archives of Canada, in its biographical sketches of Canadian Prime Ministers, records show that on one occasion during the war, Trudeau and his friends drove their motorcycles wearing Prussian military uniforms, complete with pointed steel helmets."

Link to some more interesting reading....the original article by Sascha Trudeau as well as commentary on it.....