Hi and thanks for visiting the best Ravens forum on the planet. You do not have to be a member to browse the various forums, but in order to post and interact with your purple brethren, you will have to **register**. It only takes a couple of minutes. You can also use your Facebook account to log in....just click on the blue 'FConnect' link at the very top of the page.

Lynn Swann

Lynn Swann PFR ranking- 857th all-time (roughly 200 HOFers since 1950), so even if their were four HOFs, Swann still wouldn't get in.

I'm not sure where your support for Lynn Swann comes from.

In addition to very pedestrian career stats, the ideas that he was a "very good" or "one of the two best wrs of his era" are utterly unfounded.

You seemed to state that his lack of career numbers were due to a short career, when the factual information states that his lack of career numbers were due to the fact that he wasn't that productive.

Swann never once finished in the top 5 in the NFL in receptions.

He only finished in the top 10 in receiving yards 3 times, never finishing higher than 4th.

He finished in the top 10 in the league in TD catches 3 times, including once leading the league (about the only statistical argument you could ever make that he was "great")

He also had one season (1974) where he was a very good punt returner. However, as we've seen with Tim Brown's (a far superior WR) exclusion from Canton the last few years, punt return ability means little in HOF consideration.

Swann also only made 3 Pro Bowls, so the notion that there was some form of greatness that superceded his meager statistical production is also unfounded.

Among modern receivers, there is simply no precedent that says Swann is anywhere near being worthy of Canton.

I mentioned Harold Jackson yesterday. He was a few years older than Swann, but they were largely contemporaries.

Jackson had almost exactly double of Swann's career yards.

Jackson had 4 appearances in the top 10 in catches. Swann had two. Jackson also had a year where he led the league in catches and another where he was 4th. Swann was never in the top 5 even one in his career.
Jackson made 5 pro bowls vs. Swann's three.

Jackson was in the top 10 in receiving yards 5 times. Swann just 3 times. Jackson led the NFL in receiving yards twice and finished 3rd another year.

Jackson finished with 4 top 10 finishes in TD receptions, and like Swann had a year in which he lead the league in TD catches (13 in 1973).

Lynn Swann is in the HOF. Harold Jackson never even once has been selected as a HOF finalist.

This is why Swann is viewed by virtually every NFL stat expert as being horrendously overrated.

Not only are the stats not there, but neither are the Pro Bowls. The same media that thought he wasn't deserving of a Pro Bowl nomination more than three times in his career suddenly viewed him as HOF worthy??? That's what doesn't make sense in the least.

It goes to show how much of a disproportionate credit a player gets for having the blind luck of playing for a "dynasty". Had Swann played for any other NFL team, there would be zero merit for him being in Canton.

You can argue that Swann's stats suffered due to the era in which he competed, but look at his stats compared to other 1960-1985 era HOF WRs.

Compare him to Biletnikofin terms of times he was in the top ten in the major statistical categories

Compare him to Maynard

Compare him to Bob Hayes

Compare him to Charlie Joiner

Compare him to Charley Taylor

If you take the time to do that, you'll leave scratching your head over how Swann ever became a HOF finalist, let alone found enough support to get voted in.

Regardless of era, 3 pro bowls and 3 appearance in the top 10 in receiving yards doesn't get you into Canton....unless you happen to be a Steeler.

Re: Lynn Swann

Good luck trying to convince an old Steelers fan that one of his heroes doesn't belong in the HOF. When Swann got it a lot of people were stunned, count me as one of them. The bias towards those 70s Steelers and Cowboys from the media has always been there.

Re: Lynn Swann

He helped Pittsburgh win some Superbowls, but I don't think players should be inducted only for their post season accomplishments.

I remember him as a pretty good receiver, but 61 for 880 in his best season, and only 50 catches in his 2nd best season.

Without looking it up, I bet there are several guys who caught more than 61 passes for multiple seasons who will not get in the HOF. I think Todd Heap has numbers that are better than Swann's, so he should be a lock for the HOF.

Re: Lynn Swann

He helped Pittsburgh win some Superbowls, but I don't think players should be inducted only for their post season accomplishments.

I remember him as a pretty good receiver, but 61 for 880 in his best season, and only 50 catches in his 2nd best season.

Without looking it up, I bet there are several guys who caught more than 61 passes for multiple seasons who will not get in the HOF. I think Todd Heap has numbers that are better than Swann's, so he should be a lock for the HOF.

Lynn Swann is the Phil Rizzuto of football.

Love the post, man. Especially the Rizzuto part.

I will state that you can't compare 1970s catch numbers versus 2000s pass #s (Swann vs. Heap argument), but I do get your point. The short passing game that you see now didn't exist in the 70s, so using yards is probably a bit more accurate than passes caught. However, even in yards, as you stated, Swann never had more than 900 of them in a season. He also finished in the top 10 in receiving yards just 3 times. So even if you adjust his receiving efforts for the era, he has no business getting in.

Re: Lynn Swann

No clue. A better question would be "how is Tim Brown still on the outside looking in".

I think Carter and Brown are both slam dunk Hall of Famers, but Brown was better.

One out of the trio or Carter, Brown, and Andre Reed will get inducted this year. The prevailing sentiment is that Reed gets in because if he doesn't get inducted in 2012, he might never. The argument is that Brown and Carter are good enough to get in on their own with little resistance down the road. I think that's a flawed argument, but the fact that Reed made it further in the induction process than Brown did last year might prove the theory valid.

For some reason, Brown not being in Canton already really irritates me. You really have to wonder what more the guy could have done to improve his chances. Top 5 all-time in receptions, yards, and punt return yards. 6th in TD catches all while playing with very mediocre QBs in an offense where there were no other weapons in the Raider passing game.

Re: Lynn Swann

Lynn was a pretty good player but not truly great. He was a ballot finalist for 13 years so it seems many others didn't think he belonged either until maybe they just got tired of seeing his name on there.