Apple has added more prominent text to its online store in Australia, informing consumers that the 4G version of the new iPad does not work with LTE networks in that country.

"This product supports very fast cellular networks," the new disclaimer reads. It is stated prominently above the the 4G LTE models in Apple's online store. "It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX networks. For service from a wireless carrier, sign up for a simple, month-by-month plan on your iPad and cancel anytime without penalty."

In the fine print, Apple has also added: "This model can roam worldwide on fast cellular data networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA."

The changes were made after the Australian government accused Apple of employing "misleading" advertising with the new iPad, advertising that the model with a cellular radio could connect to high-speed 4G LTE networks. But the new iPad is only capable of connecting to those networks in North America, because other overseas networks operate on different, incompatible frequencies.

"The ACCC alleges that Apple's recent promotion of the 'new iPad with WiFi + 4G' is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product 'iPad with WiFi + 4G' can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case," the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission said in a statement.

In response, Apple agreed to send out an e-mail to all Australian customers and offer them a full refund if they are unhappy with a "4G" iPad. The company also told the ACCC that it was willing to post disclaimers to notify customers, as it has now done with the revised website.

The Australian government's issues with Apple's advertising of the 4G LTE iPad spread quickly to other countries, including Sweden and the U.K., where the appropriate agencies said that they, too, were looking into the matter. The new iPad can connect to 3G networks in countries around the world, but its 4G LTE abilities will not work outside of the U.S. and Canada.

See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

What's even worse is that the ACCC only uses the courts as a last resort so Apple could have done this long ago.

See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

You seriously don't see that it still says WiFi + 4G and the same exact information has been there since day one?

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Even customers offered a full refund will soon be clamoring for blood as they start to smell the possibility of winning some lame class-action suit against the very, very rich Apple. It turns my stomach.

Apple please do this to all countries where the iPad can't connect to LTE, get it over with, and stop all the bitching and inquiries, save all the hassle in dealing with and everyone can move on with their happy lives..

That's until people find another thing you're doing wrong. But that's for another day.

Apple please do this to all countries where the iPad can't connect to LTE, get it over with, and stop all the bitching and inquiries, save all the hassle in dealing with and everyone can move on with their happy lives..

That's until people find another thing you're doing wrong. But that's for another day.

They never advertised 4G LTE for other countries, clearly marked on every page that 4G LTE only worked in the US and Canada. The problem was that it said 4G... and it still does.

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This text leaves no place for confusion. That's how honest business should be done. Well done, Apple.

I hope the authorities will be equally vigilant against more obscure companies when they are unclear in their advertising. The consumers win from unambiguous information, and the companies earn respect and more customers.

Never never advertised 4G LTE for other countries, clearly marked on every page that 4G LTE only worked in the US and Canada. The problem was that it said 4G... and it still does.

No it didn't Solip. I mentioned that more than once the past few days. There was no mention that 4G wasn't available to Aussie buyers when they ordered their iPad directly from Apple's order page. There is now.

No it didn't Solip. I mentioned that more than once the past few days. There was no mention that 4G wasn't available to Aussie buyers when they ordered their iPad directly from Apple's order page. There is now.

Even AI noted this on March 09, 2012 when the iPad was first announced. It was made that clear:

Quote:

The wireless models now 4G connectivity, allowing users to connect to long-term evolution networks from providers like AT&T and Verizon. The new iPad will offer download speeds of up to 73Mbps over LTE. International 4G LTE partners are Rogers, Bell and Telus.

This was stated on every iPad page and was even mentioned during the event, I think by Schiller.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDoppio

This text leaves no place for confusion. That's how honest business should be done. Well done, Apple.

I hope the authorities will be equally vigilant against more obscure companies when they are unclear in their advertising. The consumers win from unambiguous information, and the companies earn respect and more customers.

Except that it still says WiFi + 4G and there many people saying that you can't call it 4G unless it works with Australia's 4G LTE network.

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See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

I will be quite worried if they and any other manufacturer is able to call their next phones "4G" if they won't work on 4G anywhere in the world except the US (not to mention if you go to the US (or travel internationally anywhere) you have to disable data anyway to avoid $10,000 data fees.)

The ACCC is quite correct that any phone that says "4G" must work on Australian 4G, not be clarified in smaller print as "this doesn't work on current Australian 4G networks". They've been pushing quite hard generally for any important 'fine print' to be the same size as the prominent slightly-misleading (but true) headlines.

So in Apple's case, they would need to say in equally big writing

"Wi-Fi + 4G (not 4G compatible)"

It would have been just the same if the "iPhone 3G" didn't work on 3G networks, just 2G. But it did work on 3G, so no problem
The "iPhone 4" was nice marketing.... make the "4" connection without actually saying "4G".

Even AI noted this on March 09, 2012 when the iPad was first announced. It was made that clear:

Also from March 09, 2012:
This was stated on every iPad page and was even mentioned during the event, I think by Schiller.

No matter how many times you say it, it was not ever mentioned on the product order page where a buyer would expect to be informed. Even you mention it was on the specs page, far short of every page, and even there it was footnote 2.

There's no way you think any of that was nearly as clear as Apple's current statement right on the product page.

No mater how many times you say it, it was not ever mentioned on the order page. Even you mention it was on the specs page, far short of every page, and even there it was footnote 2.

There's no way you think any of that was nearly as clear as Apple's current statement right on the product page.

Then prove it. Show me a screen shot or a cached page from the 9th that has Apple appended the specifics to every iPad page except one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDoppio

Well that's the name of the product. If people get confused by that despite the clear text "It is not compatible...", then it's their own fault.

So the argument that you can't call something 4G in Australia without it being LTE is bogus? There is absolutely no consistency with the arguments here so everyone that is saying "That was easy, all we wanted was Apple to make the fine print bigger" are full of shit.

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I will be quite worried if they and any other manufacturer is able to call their next phones "4G" if they won't work on 4G anywhere in the world except the US (not to mention if you go to the US (or travel internationally anywhere) you have to disable data anyway to avoid $10,000 data fees.)

The ACCC is quite correct that any phone that says "4G" must work on Australian 4G, not be clarified in smaller print as "this doesn't work on current Australian 4G networks". They've been pushing quite hard generally for any important 'fine print' to be the same size as the prominent slightly-misleading (but true) headlines.

So in Apple's case, they would need to say in equally big writing

"Wi-Fi + 4G (not 4G compatible)"

It would have been just the same if the "iPhone 3G" didn't work on 3G networks, just 2G. But it did work on 3G, so no problem
The "iPhone 4" was nice marketing.... make the "4" connection without actually saying "4G".

With the change I don't have any more problem with it personally. Does it satisfy the ACCC? I'm sure we'll soon know.

The Federal Court has accepted an undertaking from Apple Pty Limited in response to an urgent application filed by the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) earlier today.

The ACCC has alleged that the promotion of the "iPad with WiFi + 4G" by Apple Pty Limited and Apple Inc is misleading because it represents to Australian consumers that the product "iPad with WiFi + 4G" can, with a SIM card, connect to a 4G mobile data network in Australia, when this is not the case.

Today Apple Pty Ltd provided an undertaking to the Federal Court that until further order or hearing, Apple Pty Limited would as soon as is reasonably practicable and by no later than 5 April 2012:

display a statement that the This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks in its promotional materials, on its website and online store

distribute signage with the same wording to resellers to be displayed at points of sale

contact by email any persons for whom Apple Pty Limited has an email address and who have purchased the iPad with WiFI + 4G between 16 March and 28 March 2012 (including pre-orders prior to 16 March 2012) including statements to the effect that This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMAX Networks and that such persons are entitled to return the product and request a refund within a timeframe specified in the email.

A directions hearing has been scheduled for 16 April 2012 at 9:30am. A mediation has been ordered for 18 April 2012. A hearing on liability has been set down commencing 2 May 2012.

...
So the argument that you can't call something 4G in Australia without it being LTE is bogus? There is absolutely no consistency with the arguments here so everyone that is saying "That was easy, all we wanted was Apple to make the fine print bigger" are full of shit.

You can call it whatever you want, as long as you're not misleading your customers. Beating about the bush by using ambiguous definitions and hiding essential information in footnotes is what's not ok.

The information is now up front; the text is unambiguous. It contains the simple "not compatible" that was missing before from the Australian page (and still is from the UK page).

See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

Absolutely. Or words to the same effect depending on territory. It should have been done from the get go. A non brainer.

I will be quite worried if they and any other manufacturer is able to call their next phones "4G" if they won't work on 4G anywhere in the world except the US (not to mention if you go to the US (or travel internationally anywhere) you have to disable data anyway to avoid $10,000 data fees.)

The ACCC is quite correct that any phone that says "4G" must work on Australian 4G, not be clarified in smaller print as "this doesn't work on current Australian 4G networks". They've been pushing quite hard generally for any important 'fine print' to be the same size as the prominent slightly-misleading (but true) headlines.

So in Apple's case, they would need to say in equally big writing

"Wi-Fi + 4G (not 4G compatible)"

It would have been just the same if the "iPhone 3G" didn't work on 3G networks, just 2G. But it did work on 3G, so no problem
The "iPhone 4" was nice marketing.... make the "4" connection without actually saying "4G".

I am sure Apple would be able to phrase it a little better. I am surprised Apple even mentioned 4g in any marketing outside North America. It was pretty obvious somebody would cry foul.

You can call it whatever you want, as long as you're not misleading your customers. Beating about the bush by using ambiguous definitions and hiding essential information in footnotes is what's not ok.

The information is now up front; the text is unambiguous. It contains the simple "not compatible" that was missing before from the Australian page (and still is from the UK page).

Right below the giant buttons for the iPad WiFi + 4G options it says:

Quote:

The iPad with Wi-Fi + 4G model can roam worldwide on fast GSM/UMTS networks, including HSPA, HSPA+, and DC-HSDPA. When you travel internationally, you can use a micro-SIM card from a local carrier. You can also connect to the 4G LTE networks of AT&T in the U.S. and Bell, Rogers, and Telus in Canada.

You call that hiding? ? It also lists a second set of info at the bottom of the page.

Then we have:

Quote:

Really really fast is your only option.
The new iPad supports fast mobile data networks around the world, including HSPA, HSPA+ and DC-HSDPA.2 So you can browse the web, stream content or download a film at incredibly fast speeds: up to 21.1 Mbps with HSPA+ and up to 42 Mbps with DC-HSDPA.

See how clean and easy that was? No need to change the definition of 4G or talk about how technically Apple is correct. This is the way it should be done in every market where they sell the new iPad. No pain or effort in clarifying.

They had up a disclaimer about where LTE did work right on said page. It's not their fault that the carriers didn't train their employees correctly or that buyers lack proper reading comprehension to get that 'only works with X and Y' means if you are on Z it doesn't work.

As for the returns thing, that's standard policy for the first 14 days anyway. all they might be doing is extending it a little so if someone comes in on day 20 it's fine. But they generally do that anyway on a case by case basis as long as it isn't crazy excessive like trying to return it six months later.

No it didn't Solip. I mentioned that more than once the past few days. There was no mention that 4G wasn't available to Aussie buyers when they ordered their iPad directly from Apple's order page. There is now.

It's listed as "up to 4g" and they clearly said that LTE only works in the US and Canada. They had it on the info pages, they had it again on the ordering page (right under the buttons to select your model). You might not have bothered to look but it was there. Just like it is there on other stores like the UK.

Except that it still says WiFi + 4G and there many people saying that you can't call it 4G unless it works with Australia's 4G LTE network.

it's a model name. Not a promise of service. By that logic they shouldn't have called the iPad 2 Wifi +3g in the US since you would only get EDGE speeds on T-Mobile and any of a dozen regional carriers that rented service from T-Mobile.

the 'new' iPad has the equipment for 4g/LTE. That's why the model is named that. Apple was very clear that they weren't promising you could get that service everywhere. Well clear if you could and bothered to read at above a 3rd grade level

It's listed as "up to 4g" and they clearly said that LTE only works in the US and Canada. They had it on the info pages, they had it again on the ordering page (right under the buttons to select your model)

The statement on the order page never once said 4G wasn't available in any country outside of North America, even in a footnote. Instead it said it was available in North America when traveling with no claim it was the only place.

Why all the efforts to somehow show that Apple had already done what it could to avoid confusion when the changes they've now made make it obviously clearer and unambiguous

A long list of technical abbreviations is equivalent hiding from the average consumer. all the information provided is for what the device CAN do, not what it CAN'T (which was important)

Stating that it works with American providers does NOT necessarily mean that it DOESN'T with local ones. Buyers may well consider this some extra feature for travellers and disregard it

The UK order page is particularly egregious, stating that "4G coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier." The natural assumption of the UK buyer is likely to be "4G coverage is not available in all UK areas and varies by carrier.", while what is meant applies worlwide.

Each of the above points ALONE is sufficient evidence that the previous text was misleading. Taken together, I see no point in continuing the discussion. Apple didn't either, hence the change.

A long list of technical abbreviations is equivalent hiding from the average consumer. all the information provided is for what the device CAN do, not what it CAN'T (which was important)

Stating that it works with American providers does NOT necessarily mean that it DOESN'T with local ones. Buyers may well consider this some extra feature for travellers and disregard it

The UK order page is particularly egregious, stating that "4G coverage is not available in all areas and varies by carrier." The natural assumption of the UK buyer is likely to be "4G coverage is not available in all UK areas and varies by carrier.", while what is meant applies worlwide.

Each of the above points ALONE is sufficient evidence that the previous text was misleading. Taken together, I see no point in continuing the discussion. Apple didn't either, hence the change.

the changes they've now made make it obviously clearer and unambiguous

It's unambiguous if you read it, and I'm glad it's on the first line under the heading. Unfortunately a large proportion of people don't read much beyond headlines

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrDoppio

Well that's the name of the product. If people get confused by that despite the clear text "It is not compatible...", then it's their own fault.

Is it the name? Or is it a description?
Either way, I'd consider it odd if I bought an "iPad White" and it was black, even if there was information under the "iPad White" heading that said "not available in White".

If the iPad was compatible with 4G in Europe but not the US, and in the US it was labelled "Wi-Fi + 4G", and then in the line under it said "not compatible with US 4G networks", would that be acceptable?

The statement on the order page never once said 4G wasn't available in any country outside of North America, even in a footnote. Instead it said it was available in North America when traveling with no claim it was the only place.

Why all the efforts to somehow show that Apple had already done what it could to avoid confusion when the changes they've now made make it obviously clearer and unambiguous

This is exactly the right point. It's fallacious logic to take a list of positive statements (iPad works on 4g here) and assume that everything not included in that list is a negative (iPad works on 4g nowhere else). That would be equivalent to seeing an advertisement for a value pack (the huge box) of cereal and assuming that the regular size is no longer sold.

UNDERTAKING
Upon the First respondent giving the following undertaking:
1.\tThe First Respondent undertakes to the Court, whether by itself, its servants or agents, on a without admissions basis, in connection with the supply or offering to supply or promoting the supply of the iPad with WIFI + 4G, to:

(a)\tuntil the hearing of this proceeding, or further order, include the following statement:
This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMax networks
prominently near references to 4G in promotional materials which:

(i)\tare displayed in the First Respondents retail stores in Australia;
(ii)\tare displayed on the website located at

www.apple.com/au/; and
(iii)\tare displayed on the First Respondents Australian on-line store located at http://store.apple.com/au/
as soon as is reasonably practicable, but in any event, no later than 5pm on Thursday, 5 April 2012;

(b)\tuntil the hearing of this proceeding, or further order, provide Australian resellers with signage which it directs to be displayed prominently at points of sale which includes the statement:

This product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMax networks
as soon as is reasonably practicable, but in any event, no later than 5pm on Thursday, 5 April 2012; and
(c)\tcontact by email any persons for whom the First Respondent has an email address and who have purchased the iPad with WIFI + 4G in Australia between 16 March 2012 and 28 March 2012 (including pre-orders made prior to 16 March 2012), such email to include statements to the effect that:

(i)\tThis product supports very fast cellular networks. It is not compatible with current Australian 4G LTE networks and WiMax networks; and
(ii)\tSuch persons are entitled to return the product and request a refund within a time frame specified in the email,
as soon as is reasonably practicable, but in any event, no later than 5pm on Thursday 5 April 2012.

THE COURT ORDERS THAT:

1.\tThe Applicants interlocutory application dated 28 March 2012 be dismissed.
2.\tThe costs of the interlocutory application be reserved.
3.\tThe proceeding be fixed for a speedy trial (on an estimate of two days), to commence on 2 May 2012, on the question of liability only.
4.\tThe Applicant file and serve a Statement of Claim on or before 3 April 2012.
5.\tThe First Respondent file and serve a Defence on or before 12 April 2012.
6.\tThe Applicant file and serve its affidavits for the trial on or before 19 April 2012.
7.\tThe First Respondent file and serve its affidavits for the trial on or before 26 April 2012.
8.\tThe Applicant file and serve any affidavits in reply on or before 30 April 2012.
9.\tThe proceeding be referred to a mediation to be conducted on or before 18 April 2012.
10.\tThe directions hearing of the matter be adjourned to 9.30 am on 16 April 2012.
11.\tThe parties have liberty to apply on 24 hours written notice.

To be clear, if I check your posting history I won't find a single post by you claiming that you any name something 4G in Austrailia if it doesn't work on their LTE networks? This isn't a load question as I don't know if you stated that but was stated over and over again over the last couple days on these forums. Again, the name still contains 4G so based in those complaints it's still illegal and customers will still confused because "to Australians 4G means LTE."

Again, I take issue with Apple making it more clear ( I think it could still be clarified) but I do take issue with the hypocrisy and what is looking like lies about what you can name 4G is Australia.

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To be clear, if I check your posting history I won't find a single post by you claiming that you any name something 4G in Austrailia if it doesn't work on their LTE networks?

I don't believe so sir. My issues have always been with Apple's lack of clarity, and in my opinion misleading statements.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

Again, I take issue with Apple making it more clear ( I think it could still be clarified) but I do take issue with the hypocrisy and what is looking like lies about what you can name 4G is Australia.

Why do you care what the Australians consider 4G as long as they understand it? Aren't different names for similar foods, animals or activities some of the things that define different people, cultures or countries? That's part of dealing with a worldwide consumer market. they certainly can't do business with China in the same way they do Canada. But you already know this.

IMO Apple was wrong in their marketing, and now (with a little nudge from the ACCC) they've made a big move towards clarity. I don't think the Australians will be the last to push them in the right direction either.

Why do you care what the Australians consider 4G as long as they understand it? Aren't different names for similar foods, animals or activities some of the things that define different people, cultures or countries?

Colloquial uses are fine, but you can't take some technical and deem it not lawful because it's not colloquial that crosses a line. Americans use the term cell phones yet they aren't on cell networks. It's not accurate but it's common and accepted yet there are no laws saying you can't call it a mobile. There are also no laws saying you need to qualify that a cordless phone isn't capable of connecting to a MNO simply because it describes itself a cordless. Again, all this info has been on Apple's site from day one and even today it says WiFi + 4G so nothing has been gained. The idiots will still be confused and those in the know will still roll their eyes at that stupidity of all these complaints.

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