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i would just like to say that international law is a decentralized system. the un is not a congress or a parliament that can pass binding international laws, only the un security council can pass some resemblance of a international law and even then only to a very limited degree. . the only international laws that are biding to a state are the ones that a state agrees to.

The US has a pretty good track record with having the internet, I don't think letting countries that Censor the internet have control of the internet is a good idea..
(I cant tell if you are but if you are implying that Europe is a US Client state you need help.)

A Client state is not a state that politically, economically or militarily subordinate to the more powerful state.
because that would mean that everyone was the Client state of the US and everyone was the Client state of China. if you read more than one line of wikipeidia maybe you will find out what a client state is.

The economy of the United States is the world's largest national economy and the world's second largest overall economy, the GDP of the EU being approximately $2 trillion larger.

Lol, the US doesnt have the final say in where European countries put there money, Military or Economic.

The EU is now a joined Economy, there are no taxes for trading between UK and France for example, so from an economic standpoint the comprison between the USA's Economy and the EU's economy is perfectly reasonable,
or should we compare the GDP of Texas to the GDP of the UK?
Considering Texas is more than twice as large as the UK its surprising that the UK has a GDP more than twice that of texas eh?

I'm talking more about infrastructure. I mean, to call what I have broadband is an absurd notion. I know we're rolling out the NBN, but they're going about it the wrong way. I can't get any form of wired broadband, and they're not starting work within 3+ years. Meanwhile, areas that already have ADSL2 are to have work started within 3 years.

Sigh. The EU is banning high end video cards next year because they consume too much power. They're also making spying without warrants an everyday practice. Not to mention the European Parliament is a fucking advisory with no power. The European Union has no democracy. You think the US is out of touch? Oh boy

The sole person who said this would happen was an AMD insider who had absolutely no clue about the law.

Yes, the EU is setting minimum standards for energy efficiency, but that doesn't mean you can't buy things that go over the efficiency cap. Almost all white appliances in the EU have an A-F energy rating based on efficiency. You can still buy F-grade appliances.

2012/10/17 15:00: After feedback from our valued readers it has been made clear that the graphics cards above said bandwidth are exempts to the regulation.Meaning that the very high-end (future) graphics cards aren't in danger.

That guy clearly didn't read the article then and is making bullshit up.

Nation states are a mixed bag at best. This 'Murica hatred is misplaced in this sub. Do I have to do a spreadsheet to determine which nation is winning the ethical race? Or are we just repeating silly tropes we heard on the internet.

Illegal actions are still illegal if it is in the same context of the law but just reapplying the technology component.

Say harassment via phone call is illegal the law will say 'harassment is illegal' so then this would apply to harassment via the internet, sms/txt message or megaphone. Harassment is harassment is harassment, meaning the medium can change but it is still the same function.

Please elaborate. They seem to be doing a decent job on the child pornographers, hackers and whatnot. I don't see how regulations would help in those departments (though they claim it will).

Ignoring or bypassing regulations isn't very difficult for somebody who would otherwise break the law anyway, it only hurts legitimate people who would comply. Puts the burden on those people the most.

Why not? Servers are a physical bodies on which illegal content/actions take place and since servers have to be somewhere, they have to obey the law of the country they are in. I honestly don't know what's wrong with such thought process

Did anyone else react to the countries that are against regulation and centralisation of "the internet"?

I had heard about this before visiting reddit today and was hoping to find some comments on it. My reaction was along the lines of this. Why would not the players that are for a "free" internet put that power in an arena where if censorship occurs it'll leak out... Maybe because it would shed light on current censorship (passive and other)?

tl;dr There should be some ulterior motive(s) to why EU, USA and google are against central regulation - thought of the possibility that current censorship might have to be revealed in the process of regulating.

Am I really the only one who isn't really comfortable with the current situation where the US controls the whole thing? Granted, if even the EU says this specific ITU treaty is a terrible idea, it probably is, but I still think the Internet should be run by a neutral international body.

I am of the opinion, my opinion being based on local and international news which I follow pretty closely, leads me to believe that the EU delegates can not and will not make intelligent, carefully considered, decisions. Therefore I was surprised that they at least got the internet right... well in a small way, because what don't "tell the public" is that the EU has it's own little plans to restrict the internet, like ACTA(the reborn and secretly revised version) and the Canadian trade agreement (I forgot the exact name) that are being pushed through the EU parliament, in secret.

Other decision the EU has made, like how the Netherlands (and other Northern European countries) can pay for Greece's screw ups, resulting in us needing to cut in our own healthcare and education. The facts that Greece's finance wasn't checked properly before joining the EU, because off their blind drive to increase EU members. The fact that Greece has been forced by Germany to buy German tanks, even though they didn't have the money. That the EU budget is ever increasing, with delegates that are isolate from the citizens and have no intention to listen to the citizens because it would hamper the EU's "progress", the fact that shit is hitting the fan right now in the EU, the economical and social problems the EU is facing now might be a good indicator of male-governing by EU delegates. That they are disassociated bunch of money grubbers, a Belgian delegate told the EU minister (or what ever it is called) of Fishery that he hasn't been to 1, not even ONE, meeting in two years... the head of Fishery... but he did get a salary... A big one I might add.

For me there is plenty of evidence that the EU is a malicious organization, run by monkeys on little unicycles, that do what ever they want in their big ivory tower in Brussels and have as sole goal to make 1 unified Europe. I am, till this day, pro Europe and pro EU, but not this way, the EU parliament is foggy grey area in which people reside, I have never met, seen, nor heard about (Me being Dutch, I only know of 1 Dutch person in the EU parliament Ms Neelie Kroes) The rest are anonymous political party drones that have not proven their skill to the public and are expected to represent the people of a country.

That why I used insults, that's why I think they are money grubbers and now you know where in the EU I live.

You know, like, every other treaty is negotiated in secret. It still will have to pass European Parliament.

like how the Netherlands (and other Northern European countries) can pay for Greece's screw ups

Because you're in a union. It's like saying that New Yorkers shouldn't pay for the Californians if they go bankrupt. You're in a union, and if one falls, you help them for fucks sakes. What's with all this, "I don't want to help him, he's from a different country"?

The facts that Greece's finance wasn't checked properly before joining the EU

Greeks themselves lied about it, so I'm not surprised. Maybe it's true that EU enlargement was a little too fast, but you can't change anything now.

That the EU budget is ever increasing

The budget is 1% of EU member states wealth, dude. That's... like, not a lot.

with delegates that are isolate from the citizens and have no intention to listen to the citizens because it would hamper the EU's "progress"

What do you mean by that? MEPs? They're accountable. European Commission president? He isn't, because he/she is appointed by the heads of member states, the same with European Council President.

Maybe, it's that you just don't follow the EU laws that closely, and think that they're unaccountable, or you just read only anti-EU propaganda. But in any case, EU is democratic. There are problems with it, but it isn't like what anti-EU propagandists preach.

What do you mean, male-governing? Men are in power everywhere, not only in the EU.

of Fishery that he hasn't been to 1, not even ONE, meeting in two years... the head of Fishery... but he did get a salary... A big one I might add.

The guy, Guy was talking about is Nigel Farage, the anti-EU propagandist, which /r/conspiracy, and eaglebertarians(libertarians) support. He's the epitome of anti-EU propaganda in E.P.

the EU parliament is foggy grey area in which people reside

Umm, dude, the last voter turnout didn't even reach 50%. Such low turnout hasn't happened since 1980's I think. People don't come to vote who goes to the EP, and you fucking whine who goes there? Also, EP elections happen every 4 fucking years. MEPs aren't appointed, they're elected.

What because of Soviet spies? Yes a measure of secrecy is needed, but not purposefully keeping it away from civilian eyes. It's not like they are discussing the key positions of their nuclear arsenal. It actually should be made public so the people know what the EU is doing and what is going on, the development there of, now we need to wait, and hope it will not pass Parliament... really good system for a organization that is supposed to be for the people of the EU.

Because you're in a union. It's like saying that New Yorkers shouldn't pay for the Californians if they go bankrupt. You're in a union, and if one falls, you help them for fucks sakes. What's with all this, "I don't want to help him, he's from a different country"?

We as the Dutch, pay the most towards the EU... the most of all countries, we have always paid. And I'm not mad about needing to help pay for another county, no sir. But the fact that we need to pay for a mistake by EU delegates that in their blind zealot ways have bunched us together with rotten apples.

Greeks themselves lied about it, so I'm not surprised. Maybe it's true that EU enlargement was a little too fast, but you can't change anything now.

Wrong... The entire EU lied about it, that's the fun bit, what Greece did to mask their deficit, a tactic invented by Goldman Sachs if I'm correct, was also used by all the other European countries... all of them... doesn't that show incompetence if anything?

And no, we've bought the horse and didn't check it's mouth so now it's our problem true, but if you know you've bought a faulty horse in the past you pay extra attention when you buy a second horse... but EU doesn't... They got the same global tunnel vision they had at the start.

The budget is 1% of EU member states wealth, dude. That's... like, not a lot.

So you got it laying around? 151 Billion? the entire EU is crumbling and they are increasing the payment, what about next year, and the year after that? Why? because they want to redistribute it... if anything, looking at the current EU situation they should be cutting down. In my opinion giving them even 1 euro is to much.

Maybe, it's that you just don't follow the EU laws that closely, and think that they're unaccountable, or you just read only anti-EU propaganda. But in any case, EU is democratic. There are problems with it, but it isn't like what anti-EU propagandists preach.

It seems democratic... nothing more... I have only once did anything democratic regarding the EU, what was something the EU actively tried to block, voting on a referendum on the EU constitution. (Afteer wards EU sympathizers tried to push it through regardless, you know what that's called, dictatorship.)What was the result, the Dutch said fuck off with your constitution. Never ever again have I heard of any initiative of the EU to make it democratic. The EU isn't a small player any more, so they wtf are they thinking about making members of state vote for MEP's, the pubic should do that if they really where that democratic.

Already is getting fixed, you know.

Really? I can't seem to agree with you, we've just lost a bunch of money and the Greeks are crawling with nazies, France is about to topple over and the only thing they can do is address their feelings of grandeur, let's make it even bigger.

Yeah! great they are finally doing something good... only when it's their heads that are about to roll, where the fuck where those smarty pants when they started? Fixing the dumb stuff you did doesn't absolve them from the fact that they should have figured that shit out long ago. The EU should reflect and learn from what they have done, now they will be saying, look we fixed we did good, let's go ahead with the same course that didn't work the last time. (Yes yes, there probably will be written a few laws and decelerations that keep them from making the same mistakes, the same mistakes, they will fuck up on other shit because they have the same damn mentality. EU>>> BIGGER=BETTER)

What do you mean, male-governing? Men are in power everywhere, not only in the EU.

I didn't mean it in as male-government but more like as malpractice... my mistake.

The guy, Guy was talking about is Nigel Farage, the anti-EU propagandist, which /r/conspiracy, and eaglebertarians(libertarians) support. He's the epitome of anti-EU propaganda in E.P

This bit I must admit I didn't hear it in context, but I agree with Verhofstadt.

Umm, dude, the last voter turnout didn't even reach 50%. Such low turnout hasn't happened since 1980's I think. People don't come to vote who goes to the EP, and you fucking whine who goes there? Also, EP elections happen every 4 fucking years. MEPs aren't appointed, they're elected.

Ooh, so because 50% is to lazy to vote the other 50% doesn't matter? I voted, that matters, I vote for everything because I believe that is my duty as a citizen, for me and for my neighbours.

Once again, I'm not against the EU, deep inside I'm pro, but I disagree with the direction we as the EU are going.

Yes a measure of secrecy is needed, but not purposefully keeping it away from civilian eyes. It's not like they are discussing the key positions of their nuclear arsenal.

Everyone is doing their treaty negotiations secretly. Even the US president does it. I've no idea why, really, but it's common. Maybe to evade the kneejerk reaction from the public if they hear/see something they don't like? I really don't know.

We as the Dutch, pay the most towards the EU...

What do you mean, pay the most towards the EU? You mean per capita?

what about next year, and the year after that? Why? because they want to redistribute it...

They redistribute it to the poorer regions, which were ravaged by the soviet and nazi regimes.

It seems democratic... nothing more... I have only once did anything democratic regarding the EU, what was something the EU actively tried to block, voting on a referendum on the EU constitution.

Yes, that was stupid, but you blocked it. Also, Lisbon Treaty isn't a constitution of the EU, it's a constitutional basis for the future.

only when it's their heads that are about to roll, where the fuck where those smarty pants when they started?

You can only really reform when there's a crisis, because you really see then, what you need to reform.

The EU should reflect and learn from what they have done, now they will be saying, look we fixed we did good, let's go ahead with the same course that didn't work the last time.

We'll see how it goes in the future.

Ooh, so because 50% is to lazy to vote the other 50% doesn't matter? I voted, that matters, I vote for everything because I believe that is my duty as a citizen, for me and for my neighbours.

No, it means that 50% didn't vote, and whine when the EU doesn't change, when they themselves didn't vote, probably. It's a disgrace that they didn't show up to vote. Maybe they think that the EP doesn't have any real power, or something.

Once again, I'm not against the EU, deep inside I'm pro, but I disagree with the direction we as the EU are going.