The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

How will the new development affect bodies like D-e-H whose primary income source is cash collection. Will it all be deposited in a bank? How will key clerics from other sects be paid off? How will crooked journalists be bought to run articles? I'm assuming they would be in the know for some time now and have already started implementing processes to convert cash to other assets. OR they are not affected by this at all simply because they are a religious body and do not fall under tax regulations? My knowledge of economics is rudimentary at best.

Now all abdes/amtes can do Najwa and pay Wajebaats with these banned currency. Black money going to black money hoarders. With their connections they will be able to convert to white (bribing Modi Sarkar aab ki Baar)

This is not a "cash ban", but only of current 500 and 1000 Rs bills. As the article itself says, the plan is to introduce new 500 and 2000 Rs bills soon. I do not believe it will have any impact on religious entities at all. Religion is Big Business in India, and trying to do anything that cuts off the cash flow to large religious groups via cash donation will be suicidal to any government. More than the Bohris, the various Hindu temples also receive huge cash donations. Just walk by any "ganpathi mandir" and you will see what I mean. In short, there will be no effect at all.

I think this will be a big blow to Kothar and their black money. Kothar is known to pile up a lot of cash from ziyafats/vajebaat/title sell/najwa etc etc - a lot of this they invest thru their proxies - but they still have a big pile of cash.

This is will also impact the future source of income from kothar. Majority of people paying heavy cash to ziyafat/vajebat are paying by not paying the tax . But in future when they start paying taxes they will reduce their payments to kothar.

With this move, Goverment is also trying to reduce the cash in general ,by controlling the withdrawal limit at ATM (2000 intially and then 4000) . Withdrawal at bank ( 10K) - so in future people with not have much cash (maybe a few lakhs at max). This will heavily impact Kothar payments (as they accept only cash).

For instance - Muffadal maula is about to visit Nagpur (and nearby cities) next week - with this new his visit is bound to be cancelled as people will not have cash for payingfor ziyafat/ kadam/ salam etc and his visit will go waste

Biradar, I agree the thread title seems misleading in hindsight. I didnt put enough thought into what I should call it instead. Also a little click-bait never hurts anyone. I also agree that they will not be affected by this at all, what they have stashed now is safe. On the other hand, Bakrabhai's point is also correct, cash strapped bohri businessmen will not be as willing to part with a now scarce resource as easily. Let's keep an eye out on the short term cancelled trips and kitty parties, that may be a good indicator of how deep the "love" for muffy runs in the community.
SBM, it would be fun to hear them try and hint at folks to change the method of payment.

I agree that Kothari coffers may suffer. Its hard to say. Its possible that Modi may make an exemption to religious and charitable organization cash collections, and allow them to exchange hoarded cash without the tax and non-declaration penalties. It's not unusual that people give money in mosques and temples in cash. Such donations are not always "black money", but just the reality of religious donations.

More significant is this move to limit or eliminate the use of cash. Its not a good thing. The problem is that it can lead to government spending based on essentially "printing" limitless money, leading to a potential hyperinflation scenario. It has happened in India in the past.

Only time will tell. However, as far as Bohri's are concerned, now they will be made to pay in gold coins. Don't worry. More-la Muffy won't become any less More-la. It may be worse! He may start asking for gold coins, jewels and real estate instead, things he can be sure have value in the future. For Kothar, only the means and not the end will change. They will keep fleecing and Bohris will keep bending over and rolling over dead.

Kothar would not be disturbed a bit. they may face a little inconvenience of having a lot of stash of 500s and 1000s going waste, but they would still have truck loads of 100s and below denominations stocked up. Plus why would they stress, it was not thier hard-earned money. they can always ramp up collections by selling more of muffy maula.

as biradar mentioned, they can have big fat ziyafats collected in kind of gold, real estate, luxury cars, air planes, helicopters and many such other goodies. plus now they are officially into many real estate projects so they have all the avenues to whiten thier black collections. plus modi too is in thier pocket.

cmon, muffy maula is gotta to be haq-na-dai he got his every move, strategy, plan, scheme working in his favor.

It is amazing that Ghayab Naa Jankar did not have a foresight of this coming. Did not the Imam forewarn him about this happening
Who knows they may already have converted their cash into Real Estate or deposited some where else.
On a serious note, the requirement from the Govt of India to convert old currency into new currency is declare it, pay the taxes and penalty and you are done.
Well Kothar is a Non Profit Religious Entity so they have NO legal issue in declaring and converting Black Money into White Money. As a matter of fact many Abdes can use Kothar to convert their Black Money into White money (of course Kothar would take hefty commission and will know for future how much that person has)

I absolutely agree with Reporter. More-la Muffy is the greatest man on Earth, and he had knowledge of this move many years in advance. Hence, he has been actively telling all Bohri's to hand over all their wealth and earnings over to him! I mean, why else would he ask you for more and more and more? Why would he ask you to bring money in every single event? Why would he ask you for faakhir raakam on every occasion? Not because he wants it! It's for your own good. If you just listen to him and give him your money, property and earnings you would be in tip-top shape. After all, he is "jaan and maal na maalik". So please, Bohris fork out all your notes, land, gold and jewels to More-la. You have nothing to fear. Trust him.

amils did the same thing, they have deposited big chunk of money in qardan hasanah in bank and will wait till the new currency is normal in floating, then they will withdraw all their money from banks.

Govt has exempted all religious organization from any tax so this does not make any sense. Kothari Goons can convert all their money using
religious affiliation.
There is no loss for Kothari Goons. Now they will be able to convert all their black money in white without any penalty.

First estimates indicate that the trading-driven bohra community will be hit hard by the demonetised currency in india. Most bohra traders have traded in cash and under-reported their tax disclosures and bohra businesses could stand to lose a significant part of their wealth overnight and awoken poorer.

The big question: Why?

Here follows an interesting perspective.

The first rate in tax compliance, it is not that he or she has been a poor citizen (though this is fundamentally so); it is that the bohra has had little reason to be tax-compliant.

Reasons:
Being totally community-driven, the bohra has had to do salaam, pay vaajebaat, perform ziaafat, fund qardan/jaman and seek haddiyat - with CASH and no Cheque's.

Considering that every bohra has wanted to rise in the community’s esteem more than anything else. For decades the bohra have recognised the value of cash in exchange for community respect. It is the community’s preference for cash that made the bohra a tax-evader.

What would happen if the bohra wanted to pay by cheque? It is quite possible that the vazarat would have deterred him in the first place for fear of opening a new problem.

So what happens now?

Answer:
A huge fear. These are the things that could happen:
Lower the cash flows among mumineen because of wealth evaporation, so a lower desire to donate to the community
Growing unwillingness to donate to the community from tax-paid savings (imagine paying tax only to pay out to the community!

Mumineen contributed to the community largely because it was free money with no tax to pay!

Fear of making large cash payments to the community that could be traced and so paying with rs 100 notes is out of the question because of the sheer quantum needed. Paying through new rs 500 notes would be possible but not entirely free of fear; paying through rs 2000 notes could invite tax scrutiny.

So what does this mean?

It means that the number of those seeking haddiyat and offering ziyaafat by paying tax-paid cheques could disappear, severely affecting vazaarat cash flows. It also means that the rates for haddiyat and ziyaafat could crash to more realistic, if such a thing exists, levels coupled with a wider number of mumineen being drawn into the net (what you lose by value you make up by volumes).

It also means that the financial epicentre of the community could move from india to East Africa/Middle East for the next few years until people in india are inclined to pay by cheque and the vazarat is prepared to receive by cheque. It also means that with the financial back of the community engine having been broken, a new reality could emerge.

Could it also mean that the vazaarat itself could be a LOT poorer considering that virtually its entire machinery was driven by cash?
In the old days, whenever the vazaarat needed cash, it turned to mumineen for additional funding. This time it’s different. the supply line could be starved as well.

The new reality:

Increased humility within the clergy, greater fear of allah and a greater invocation of allah for help. Allah transforms realities within minutes. They did gradually forgot this, but after this new banned currencies …Allah transforms reality is coming back big time and fast.

Reporter wrote:The new reality:
Increased humility within the clergy, greater fear of allah and a greater invocation of allah for help. Allah transforms realities within minutes. They did gradually forgot this, but after this new banned currencies …Allah transforms reality is coming back big time and fast.

Dear Reporter
Wish this could be the reality, but I don’t think demonetization would dent any of kothar’s conscience or activities. They do not care if their previously collected stash is now pile of raddi. Instead they will get more aggressive to cover up the deficit, They will apply every trick in the book to bring back the losses, if not by value then by volumes, that means more aggressive marketing and coercion techniques.

Willingly or unwillingly kothar has immersed itself in an unending, un-savable vicious circle of looting to fund their activities, ventures, schemes and save their faces, huge investments like SBUT and other major acquisition projects and renovation of dargah resorts along with bribing government officials of various countries. The pay-out is too huge. After all these they have to have enough for their own ayyashi and power balance.

For time being they will divert their attention to outside india as abdes in india are recovering from the shocks. So for now, kothar will change the strategy to make more foreign trips majorly to Gulf, USA and Africa to cover collection targets. Abdes in India need some time to pile up black money in new currency to restore supply to kothar. Also modi being their friends, they would have converted a huge stash of money into legal tenders or were informed in advance to scale down or not trade in old currency.

In fact, this event may have worked in kothar’s favor; abdes would have rushed to kothar to take away all the black money to legalize them under religious donations. Better given to muffy maula then burning them down. They are anyways falling head over heels to pay.

Bohra Bhai with white jungli beard cought smugling 4 crores from Burhanpur, not sure wether he was smugling money on behalf of Darga E Hakimi. Some messeges mentions it belonged to local jamaat and that they were going to Saify Mahal.

Anyone who thinks that Kothar will be more "humble" due to this black-money crack-down is living in a fairytale land. The Kothar does not care. If cash does not work for them, they will pressure people to give money in gold, jewelry and real-estate. Already, Kothar has carried out money collection in gold and jewels when they collected to build the zaarih of M. Fatema. That the zaarih never got built is irrelevant, as soon there will be another such drive to collect more gold.

Kothar is like the demon Bakasura (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakasura). He demanded that he be fed large amounts of food daily. He would consume the food as well as the person who delivered it. It went on for a long time, till Bhima finally killed him. Sadly, like Bakasura, the Kothar Mafia, led by Chief Bakasur More-la Muffy, is a insatiable demon. He wants more, more and more. It never ends. His hunger for money is limitless and can not be contained. More importantly, there is no Bhima who can slay this Kothari demon. It won't happen in our lifetime, or probably ever.

You are probably right Biradar, and the likes of Muffy have their benefactors in high places. Before the demonitzation came into effect it seems the law was amended to exempt government employees and religious institutions from "black money" accountability and litigation. The cash stashed away in saifee mahal is safe, Muffy and gang can sleep in peace. In the short run thought the cash flow form abdes is going to be a problem.

Actually the situation is opposite then what many of you think ! This is a big opportunity for Kothar to make windfall profits. Let me explain the ground reality:-

As per the current scenario, 500 and 1000 rupee notes are available at almost 40% discount i.e. people having black money in these denominations are selling 1000 rupee notes for Rs.600 and it is expected to deteriorate further as 31st December nears. Don't forget that there are many dargahs across India like Raudat Tahera, Ahmedabad, Galiakot, Burhanpur, Surat, Jamnagar, Ujjain, Hasanpir, Mandvi, Radhanpur, Dhrol, Padhari, Kalavad, Ganipir, Amreli, Dongaon, Sidhpur, Halvad, Morbi, Rampura etc etc having Golaks. Not everyone puts 500 or 1000 rupee notes in these Gallas as most of it is in 10, 20, 50 or 100 rupee denomination notes. Kothar will buy the 500 and 1000 rupee notes at heavy discounts of 40% and even more as black money hoarders will become more panicky as days pass by and earn huge profits. Moreover, they will show MORE collection then what actually takes place, they could show collection of say 5 crores per month in Raudat Tahera against the actual collection of 2 crores. Now multiply this by months and the number of dargahs in Kothar's control and figure out !!