Metrics are tough in IT. Response time is an absolute must. I get it. Take the ticket, write something. Respond. Make an effort. This is basic customer service. If you don't have that, you don't belong in Help Desk.

As for resolves, should we have an open password reset for 24 hours? noWill we have a more complicated ticket open for longer? sure.

Metrics i've found, are a good way to number crunch good people out of the door and prevent good people from staying.

You either have the skills to get it done---or you don't.

Someone mentioned one on ones with folks. That's a good plan. Maybe a meeting that expresses how we need to reach the goals you mentioned and deal with employees on a one on one basis as to why they aren't meeting a resolve time, etc.

TL;DR: Leadership doesn't necessarily mean being a jerk and metrics are numbers. Numbers don't always tell the full story.

or I'm just so used to dealing with 25 year olds that dealing with 45 year olds is a struggle for me...

As soon as I got to this line, that's when my thoughts went "ding ding ding!!! We have a winner."

You are evidently accustomed to 25 year olds, and unsure how to deal with people like me. :) I'm 46. I've been in IT professionally for over 20 years, and was also shadow-IT for a few years before that, so in a way, I've been working longer than most of your former staff have been alive.

All I see in your post is "how do I motivate them?" You say nothing about motivating them to do what.

You want them to behave a certain way, but haven't made it clear to them or to me what the benefit of that behavior is. They clock in, do their job (I'm guessing adequately enough to meet requirements and deadlines, yes?), and clock out and go home. What more do you actually want them to do?

I see lots of job postings from milennial-targeting companies that tout their working environment, filled with open collaboration spaces, writable walls, impressive breakrooms with catered snacks and meals, games, etc. None of that is appealing to me and my generation.

It sounds like your bewilderment comes from not having asked the first question you should have asked: what do YOU want? You've tried using the same tactics that brought you success with kids 20 years younger and at the dawn of their careers. You're now dealing with people who are in the middle to end of careers, and with much more outside of the worksite that are of greater priority.

Consider this: how many of your former staff had mortgages, spouses, and children? How many of your current staff do?

What kind of health insurance benefits did your previous employer offer you and your staff? What does your current employer offer you and your staff?

You said "putting in any real effort." To do what, exactly?

"but I need more out of them" Like what?

"And I MUCH rather have 6 hours of great work than 8 hours of sub-par work" That's your value proposition. Have you asked them what theirs is?

The point of this is that it doesn't sound like you've taken the time to get to know them first. You charged in with your own preconceived notions of how the world works, and are finding that, no, it's a lot more complex and nuanced than that. I suspect you're also closer to the same age as your former colleagues than you are to "me," because the words you wrote were just all red flags.

If you get aggressive, as you wondered whether you should do, I suspect you'll find that'll backfire on you spectacularly. And instead of a motivated workforce, you'll have several new positions to post, interview, hire, and train instead.

Remember the adage "people don't quit jobs; they quit leaders."

Can't agree with this more. Especially the back fire part and last line.

Wonder why it should be changed. If change is needed, explain to them how you see things and are used to work. Make sure that a meeting like that is handled confidential. It's not for others, only for you and the people working in your TEAM.

Make sure they feel that they can rely on you and that you're not just one of those asshole managers that's just there to jump fast forward to the next job with better (wel, whatever you might want better). They probably have seen a dozen of those already.

Don't manage team, be part of it. Listen to them, be honost about things that can't be done and that can. Get to know them, but let them get to know you.

Good luck!

If all this doesn't work, ask yourself this question: "Is working with older people what I want and what I can?".

or I'm just so used to dealing with 25 year olds that dealing with 45 year olds is a struggle for me...

As soon as I got to this line, that's when my thoughts went "ding ding ding!!! We have a winner."

You are evidently accustomed to 25 year olds, and unsure how to deal with people like me. :) I'm 46. I've been in IT professionally for over 20 years, and was also shadow-IT for a few years before that, so in a way, I've been working longer than most of your former staff have been alive.

All I see in your post is "how do I motivate them?" You say nothing about motivating them to do what.

You want them to behave a certain way, but haven't made it clear to them or to me what the benefit of that behavior is. They clock in, do their job (I'm guessing adequately enough to meet requirements and deadlines, yes?), and clock out and go home. What more do you actually want them to do?

I see lots of job postings from milennial-targeting companies that tout their working environment, filled with open collaboration spaces, writable walls, impressive breakrooms with catered snacks and meals, games, etc. None of that is appealing to me and my generation.

It sounds like your bewilderment comes from not having asked the first question you should have asked: what do YOU want? You've tried using the same tactics that brought you success with kids 20 years younger and at the dawn of their careers. You're now dealing with people who are in the middle to end of careers, and with much more outside of the worksite that are of greater priority.

Consider this: how many of your former staff had mortgages, spouses, and children? How many of your current staff do?

What kind of health insurance benefits did your previous employer offer you and your staff? What does your current employer offer you and your staff?

You said "putting in any real effort." To do what, exactly?

"but I need more out of them" Like what?

"And I MUCH rather have 6 hours of great work than 8 hours of sub-par work" That's your value proposition. Have you asked them what theirs is?

The point of this is that it doesn't sound like you've taken the time to get to know them first. You charged in with your own preconceived notions of how the world works, and are finding that, no, it's a lot more complex and nuanced than that. I suspect you're also closer to the same age as your former colleagues than you are to "me," because the words you wrote were just all red flags.

If you get aggressive, as you wondered whether you should do, I suspect you'll find that'll backfire on you spectacularly. And instead of a motivated workforce, you'll have several new positions to post, interview, hire, and train instead.

Remember the adage "people don't quit jobs; they quit leaders."

WOW!!!! WeirdFish!! Nice Hat trick with your response.

Entitled!!!!!, I had a boss younger than me behave that way. I know so many under 40s that have no respect for the time and effort that 40 and olders have put into this world to make it as easy for them as possible. My motivations are bonuses (who doesn't like extra money). I have plenty of vacation time, I have plenty of game systems. I have plenty of house. All of us are past Twitter parties and pizza parties. dklea7, your post defintiely came across Entitled. Honestly, it sounds like you haven't taken the time to learn how your new company runs and what makes it tick. As a supervisor, you are not king of the mountain. You have to show that you can get your hands dirty right alongside the rest of your team. Team doesn't have "I" in it. Talking about your team and stating they have a lack of motivation is wrong. Maybe they don't like how you are approaching them, so they shut you out. And if you don't praise achievements and reaffirm the positive things in your team, you will get nothing in exchange for your effort

and WeirdFish is correct on his last line. I have seen the mass exodus happen. And the way you are approaching these people you work with, you will either be run out or working a lot of overtime.

Wayne9773 Ya you apparently didn't read the rest of the posts. As I said before I spent the first 3 months making zero changes and only doing their jobs and trying to understand issues and literally getting my hands dirty. If anyone here is ageist, its you. At no point have we had "twitter" parties as you condescendingly say. Pretty much all your points have been dispelled already, but you obviously didn't take the time to read so I won't waste any more time on your comment either.

dklea7, Your original post mentioned nothing of the 3 months you were there. That was in a later response that I did not see initially. I was doing IT stuff so my response took me a while to complete. My apologies. My real point was that You can't take history and process with you from one job to the next in all situations. There is not a single playbook for every scenario. I based my comments on YOUR original post which came across disparaging towards older people. Looking at most of the comments, it is possible the original post could have used a little more diplomacy in the text.

or I'm just so used to dealing with 25 year olds that dealing with 45 year olds is a struggle for me...

Remember the adage "people don't quit jobs; they quit leaders."

If I could award a best answer for me this would be it!

In my case the roles are reversed. I'm pushing 60 and I manage/work with a 35 year old. He quit once. I got him what he needed to stay (which honestly was not unreasonable). He like to go out an party and sometimes comes in a little tired. I remember those days and I make allowances for the fact he is not yet designed to work the same way I do. When he screws up I let him know and also let him know it doesn't bother me. It's more of a suggestion on how to deal with things in the future.

I can understand why these guys are demotivated. They got screwed over and are now doing something less than their skillset with no real path back. Because we regularly encounter hiring situations where the person doing the hiring is half our age it makes it rather difficult to refind that path. Figure out how to help them find that future and maybe you will be able to stop complaining about them. If you can't help them then you as the leader might just have failed your (the OP) primary role and may need to move on to a role that you are more compatible with

...Three of my guys are from an acquisition 5 years ago, they were actually system admins for an old IBM AS400 system. When they were acquired they didn't have a need for that role so they just said "here you can be help desk"...

This was the "Ding,Ding,Ding!" line for me. These guys used to be mission-critical sysadmins that couldn't be lived without and now they're stuck in a dead-end helpdesk job. They're likely overpaid to the point where they can't leave. I think I'd also find it difficult to get motivated in that situation.

I can sympathize but don't have a solution. I doubt carrots are going to do much for them.

I went through this and I see a lot of talk about pushing them or offering carrots and so far nothing about offering challenges. I'm not talking about challenging them to meet metrics, challenges of trying something new or off-beat to get the minds stimulated. You are probably dealing with the group that built what is in place and is now in maintenance mode. Challenge them to find better ways, find better solutions to issues, find new paths. You came in and watched what they do and probably have ideas on what and how to improve, toss the challenge to them, see if you can lead them to embrace the ideas you might already have or to even possibly find something better than what you originally thought. There is decades of experience there, use it. Sure you can set basic metrics and there is nothing wrong with that, but lead them above and beyond, expand their options and their minds.

At that age the crappy trinkets mean very little (and I am getting a lot of crappy trinkets now) but do something or give them something that means something to them. A gift card to a nice local restaurant that they can take the significant other and/or family to, line up a babysitting service for an evening, have a department family picnic, etc. Most will be more motivated by family oriented things. I'm a bit older than most that have posted their ages here and I have had a lot of bad manages, a pile of mediocre, and one complete standout. Would have left almost any job to go work for him again but he retired a few years later. He set parameters and turned us loose, let us be creative in our methods, let us find new and better ways of doing things, and the biggest one is he supported us in challenging ourselves.

Do your best not to stifle what creativity they have left. Like others have said, they probably got kicked to the sideline somewhere so get them going again, challenge them to get going again but in a good way. If someone is truly under-performing or is dragging the department down then termination is appropriate, if you start using termination as an incentive to perform better, leave your job now, it is not the right position for you. Fear breeds resentment and demotivates the person eventually leading to a toxic and failing department.

As you stated in the OP, younger workers are looking for external schtuffff, older ones are looking for internal challenges.

the leaving early would motivate me BUT, having worked with and for a few companies you have to acknowledge burnout, if they are veterans and have never moved off or from help desk, especially if long time veterans, sometimes burnout ...well... means they are burned out.

I’m happy to at least hear you have at least 8 on your team. I’m part of a help desk team that’s currently short handed in staff. We have about 4 in our team (myself included) with a 5th who’s our PC setup guy who checks into help desk Thursdays/Fridays. We’re the first in line for our managed 250+ companies, and technically we’d be tier 1 & 2 mixed together with what we accomplish with Engineers as the escalation point. I’m just glad it’s the slow season considering we lost 3 people recently. We’re a mix of those in our 20s with two in their 50s, and I feel personally like the most motivated there. I hope your team gets their burst of motivation, otherwise you’d be working with the same guys until you retire/move on because they wouldn’t be the go getters to move up, which honestly might be kind of boring. I hope everything works out!

Most people think they are motivated by money. They are not, they are motivated by what the money can do for them. And most people don't really know what they want or what motivates them. Makes managing them kind of difficult.

I think Jim4232 above is on to something. I manage a team of 7 for a school system supporting 7k windows machines, 7k chromebooks and 2k linux boxes. I also put in a lot of unpaid overtime because I love my job and I believe in what I'm doing (supporting the infrastructure that educates thousands of kids). I don't expect my team to work overtime. My guess is these guys feel like they've been shafted or passed over. Show them how they are making a difference in the company or give them projects that will make a difference. Give them a reason to want to come to work, and a paycheck isn't it.

Set an example and fire one of them. If nothing changes, drain the swamp and back fill.

I've learned a few things with motivating various generations. With older generations, it's typically pretty easy as it's typically the legacy benefits: Money, medical, retirement. If you aren't competitive in those, you aren't going to be able to retain top veterans.

With younger generations, this is where I really struggled in the beginning. I tried throwing them money, gaming consoles, full medical, awesome retirement... NOTHING worked. It was so frustrating. But then I realized that younger people (typically) don't put too much thought into retirement, and no amount of money is going to get in the way of their weekend. So I offered to give them more time off in the form of PTO; work harder and you'll accrue (1) extra day for every 30 days. Exposure to new tech is a shiny thing, it's a great short term fix but it wears off pretty quick with most; same goes for traveling to go to conferences/projects, etc. Travel is great for a short time but then it turns into a pain for people once the shine wears off.

Going back to the older generations though. If you've tried legacy tactics, younger generations tactics, and all you get is "I'm happy with how things are" then you have two options: Accept the output (hopefully it is good, but it sounds like it isn't), or let them go and back fill. It might be more difficult in your state to fire without cause if you aren't in a right-to-work location, it's any form of government, or public education.

If their output is at a place where you're satisfied, then live with that. Someone being in a position for years (or decades) has taught them how to maintain the day-to-day and just get the job done. Going to fast for an extended period will burn people out, and you don't want that either; incentives will only carry people so long. But a long-term veteran needs to know that they need to maintain a certain level of productivity to be relevant to the organization; and not be told often about that.

Older people are wiser and realize whats going on, how the game is rigged & care less about labels, titles & disproportionate pay increments and don't want to be in a golden cage.

They are looking for quality of life rather than being duped into making someone else richer.

Its unwise to work at 110% as this is not sustainable long term.

We never run our servers CPU's at 100% for very long it only spikes to that on occasion, The human machine is no different.

The pushing of ones self to 110% leads to burnout & nervous breakdowns for the individual and profit for the company and in the long term reduced productivity from the employee and reduces any creative thought.

An aggressive stance with older people is ill advised as they may value old school manners.

If they are Geeks then this wouldn't be so bad

But if they are simple tech workers doing a geeks job then they may need to be replaced with some one that wants the job or has the passion for it.

Bear in mind this is only if they are not performing and provided they have been offered the proper training they require to do the job.

If they are older then they are not fresh out of college and possibly not to date with all the latest technologies and operating systems this would certainly affect there work.

have they been retraining ?

Is the work repetitive demanding or uninteresting ? If so this would certainly break any motivation and break their spirit.

On the up side. If you can motivate them then they are less likely to leave and take all that experience and training with them and you have a consistent team and are not hemorrhaging staff and experience, less training costs etc.

With younger people they often gather all the training and experience from you then leave the company after 2 years taking all that with them can be a revolving door.

For me its all about working smart not hard, If im working too hard then something is wrong, I look to find creative ways to solve problems and automate.

Previously in some help desk roles this was discouraged in favour of short term stat boosts so the managers can cash in on bonuses.

Id ask

Are they lazy or is it they dont know how to do the job ?

Are they true IT enthusiasts ?

If they show no interest in taking company provided training and expanding their IT skill set then you may have no choice but to replace one of them

If the replacement is clearly more productive that the remainder then you have some clout in motivating them and still being fair.

...My real point was that You can't take history and process with you from one job to the next in all situations. There is not a single playbook for every scenario...

This is a common mistake managers make. Mostly because they are so eager to proof themselves (and get a better position fast?). They tend to forget they work with people who also know a lot (or maybe even more) about what's happening, what's needed, etc.

...Figure out how to help them find that future and maybe you will be able to stop complaining about them. If you can't help them then you as the leader might just have failed your (the OP) primary role and may need to move on to a role that you are more compatible with...

This part especially is what managers should remember.

A new environment doesn't mean everything is going to go your way. There already are ways of working in order.

In the past I had a manger complaining about how much better IT was in his previous company. How much better this and that was.... I'm not sure if I told him, but I can remember thinking "why the hell did you leave that perfect company or go back there".

I have found that motivation comes from within the heart and that no external source will motivate a person unless this drive is already existing.

When I was younger, I too had "goals" and "plans". I worked hard, trained, obtained a degree, strived, self-trained to better my already known skills and to learn new ones. I got to work early and if need be, stayed late to handle those last minute emergencies that arose while watching the other "clock-watchers" do their time with minimal extra effort. Did this bother me? No, because I was motivated to succeed. Unfortunately, this motivation got little to not attention. Did I reap any benefits such as increased pay or promotions? No. All it resulted in was me being used. I was the one with the reputation of getting things done, keeping my word and handling the fires that no one else wanted to deal with. I never benefited from my hard work and motivation. All of those benefits, the bigger raises, the promotions and advancements went to others. I remember one supervisor during our yearly one-on-one "goals" meeting would actually sarcastically laugh when she asked what my goals were within the company as if to indicate that it wasn't ever going to happen.

The same is true where I work now. I wear two hats, so I come in early, stay late if necessary, (and don't necessarily get paid.) I have the reputation of being the "go-to" guy to get something done, or to at least get the ball rolling should the issue be something that is outside my scope or capabilities; something that would require higher elevation or a totally different department to handle. There are those who say they appreciate my hard work, (and I feel they are being sincere,) and have even been told by my boss' boss that I have the strongest work ethic she has ever seen. Yet, with all of this being said, I don't seem to reap any of the benefits of my hard work, dedication and motivation, yet, I still possess these positive traits.

Now, I didn't post the above to complain. I posted the above to solidify the meaning expressed in my opening sentence. I am still highly motivated at work and I still have high work ethic. I will continue to have these traits because, as said in my first sentence, motivation has to come from the heart. Motivation and a strong work ethic, (I feel these go hand-in-hand) have to be taught at an early age.

Lastly, another thing I have found in my twenty-plus years in the industry is that, as a rule, you can't expect motivation from employees if they are just treated as cattle heading to the slaughter. They have to feel valued, needed and shown that hard work does actually pay off. They have to be treated as individuals with dignity and respect, but in the corporate world, employees are nothing more than just a number, nothing more, nothing less ... sadly. With some, motivation is non-existent. Forget about them. You can't motivate those who merely want to come into work, do what is expected, (nothing more, nothing less,) and then leave for the day.

I'll admit I've merely skimmed the responses and didn't see anything where you say:

What's wrong with how help desk is running now

What you want the employees you manage to things differently

How any of this affects the bottom line

"I want them to do better" is a useless statement until you define what's deficient now and what 'better' means.

Tickets are sitting unassigned to long? Make triaging tickets a weekly rotating role throughout the helpdesk and a standard for when they have to be assigned.

Tickets are taking too long to complete? You need to look at what kind of tickets are lagging the most and why. Making the process require that any open ticket must have work put in every two days at bare minimum helps keeps things moving.

Tickets are open because users don't respond? Institute a "four-three-two" rule for non-response by the end users. over four days, three attempts to get them to supply requested info by two different methods must be recorded - non-response gets the ticket closed with a pointed Ticket closed - requester non-responsive note as the final resolution.

In the end, if you're making policies that aren't being followed, you start the work of getting those people replaced.

Are the other departments unhappy with the way their requests are handled? If you get feedback that changes are needed, come up with how you would like to make those changes and go to HR. You need to be crystal clear as to what you can and need to do, say and document if any of the changes can lead to termination.

I suspect this situation is why the position you now hold became available. It's obvious your low performers are just going through the motions and there is little hope of motivating them but it feels like we still don't have the full picture. Even after reading all the comments I don't understand why this situation is being permitted by management? Is this a government entity? A government contractor? Are the workers unionized? Are these employees related to the CEO? In short, how is it that there is so much extra money that 6 unproductive employees are allowed to remain on the payroll indefinitely? Is this happening in other departments?