eRe4s3r wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:57:Have you guys even looked at GIMP? That is a complete train wreck of usability nightmares, the fact that it doesn't have a FULL SCREEN CONTAINED GUI is the death sentence before any other consideration.

Beamer wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:55:Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

Verno wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:05:I don't know, its probably better for small businesses and students in the long run so I can sorta get behind this. The number of pirated copies of CS in a college setting would shock most people, the high cost was always a barrier of entry even with student/academic licensing models sometimes.

Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

Adobe doesn't care about #2, for good reason. If you're a hobbyist you're likely using a pirated version. If you pay, it's actually cheaper this way, assuming you like the newest versions. PhotoShop is $20 per month.

And, for the hobbyist, PhotoShop Elements is still a stand alone.

I'd guess the vast majority of people bitching, not everyone in this thread but overall, has pirated most of the Adobe CS products they've used.

We licenced CS4-Cs6 for £9k for a site licence (tier 1). It will now cost us 13k with the cloud model. It has been such a shake up that the curriculum is being changed to drop flash (was on the cards anyway) and look at alternatives ranging from GIMP, serif even corel(!) we have 6 months remaining till renewal.

So that is one customer adobe has lost, along with all the students who wont need it either (private institution, piracy isnt likely to be an issue)

Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.

eRe4s3r wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:57:Have you guys even looked at GIMP? That is a complete train wreck of usability nightmares, the fact that it doesn't have a FULL SCREEN CONTAINED GUI is the death sentence before any other consideration.

Beamer wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:55:Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

I've always despised Photoshop anyway. I can do 95% of what I need to do with Paint.NET without having to endure Adobe's non-standard and irritating UI choices, not to mention the bloat and business practices. The other 5% is covered by IrfanView, Inkscape, and ImageMagick which are progressively less friendly but are capable enough. All free software.

Julio wrote on May 7, 2013, 16:46:I'd prefer an hourly charge for how much you use it, if they really want to push a subscription model.

Nope, won't happen. I agree, but it won't happen. Companies have learned that that is not how they make their money; that's how they lose money. They learned that they make tons of money by having you constantly pay a flat rate monthly fee.

Beamer wrote on May 7, 2013, 13:49:Yeah, the guy that upgrades PhotoShop rarely for something like that, but $19.99 per month isn't terrible if you use it for business, and since we admit most of those people rarely upgrade, what is stopping them from continuing to use their old version?

Also, I agree with the "GIMP sucks" thought stream. I wanted PhotoShop just for simple cutting and pasting at work. Not enough to buy PhotoShop, but enough that I needed something better than posting screenshots into PowerPoint and cropping them. I tried GIMP.Man, GIMP is so painful to use.

Thankfully we eventually moved to Windows 7 and I could just use the genius Snip tool. Why did that take so long to come!?

Gimp is painful, but Snip is too limited. For basic image manipulation, I recommend Picasa. It's free, it's easy to use, and it does most of the basics pretty well: cropping, contrast, auto "fixing" washed out or under saturated photos, red eye, etc. It also has a bunch of fun filters like sepia, B & W, etc. It's got facial recog so you can auto tag your photos. Check it out. I've been using it for years.

I used to use Capture One on OSX along with Picasa, much faster and more streamlined for actual photo editing. Did i mention much faster? photoshop bridge is a massive mess of a program try working large format RAW or TIFF files with it.

The thing is, Bridge interlinks extremely well with photoshop and other applications. To a point where ALL my work is based on dragging files to the applications I want, instead of using any save dialogs or load dialogs. You can "batch" images together with labels and instantly select them. That is one feature I can't miss and is why I am stuck with Bridge... on the other hand it is a really nice tool if you have a LOT of images... I think i have over 10000 texture source images and simply need SOLID label and "CONSTANT" preview functions. (Bridge creates thumbnails for every image, which is why first loading a directory can take ages.. but once that is done you can INSTANTLY browse huge libraries.

That said, I would never pay subscription for Photoshop, not even for Bridge. But nobody is forcing me to upgrade.

Beamer wrote on May 7, 2013, 13:49:Yeah, the guy that upgrades PhotoShop rarely for something like that, but $19.99 per month isn't terrible if you use it for business, and since we admit most of those people rarely upgrade, what is stopping them from continuing to use their old version?

Also, I agree with the "GIMP sucks" thought stream. I wanted PhotoShop just for simple cutting and pasting at work. Not enough to buy PhotoShop, but enough that I needed something better than posting screenshots into PowerPoint and cropping them. I tried GIMP.Man, GIMP is so painful to use.

Thankfully we eventually moved to Windows 7 and I could just use the genius Snip tool. Why did that take so long to come!?

Gimp is painful, but Snip is too limited. For basic image manipulation, I recommend Picasa. It's free, it's easy to use, and it does most of the basics pretty well: cropping, contrast, auto "fixing" washed out or under saturated photos, red eye, etc. It also has a bunch of fun filters like sepia, B & W, etc. It's got facial recog so you can auto tag your photos. Check it out. I've been using it for years.

I used to use Capture One on OSX along with Picasa, much faster and more streamlined for actual photo editing. Did i mention much faster? photoshop bridge is a massive mess of a program try working large format RAW or TIFF files with it.

"Hey guys, we have the best industry standard graphics software; because of this fact, we are going to own you and milk you every month for it; because we CAN; because you cannot live without Photoshop; so, deal with it."

Beamer wrote on May 7, 2013, 13:49:Yeah, the guy that upgrades PhotoShop rarely for something like that, but $19.99 per month isn't terrible if you use it for business, and since we admit most of those people rarely upgrade, what is stopping them from continuing to use their old version?

Also, I agree with the "GIMP sucks" thought stream. I wanted PhotoShop just for simple cutting and pasting at work. Not enough to buy PhotoShop, but enough that I needed something better than posting screenshots into PowerPoint and cropping them. I tried GIMP.Man, GIMP is so painful to use.

Thankfully we eventually moved to Windows 7 and I could just use the genius Snip tool. Why did that take so long to come!?

Gimp is painful, but Snip is too limited. For basic image manipulation, I recommend Picasa. It's free, it's easy to use, and it does most of the basics pretty well: cropping, contrast, auto "fixing" washed out or under saturated photos, red eye, etc. It also has a bunch of fun filters like sepia, B & W, etc. It's got facial recog so you can auto tag your photos. Check it out. I've been using it for years.

Prez wrote on May 7, 2013, 14:05:Despite the aforementioned rampant piracy I see this as a bad move myself. I personally would never subscribe to a setup like this in a million years. And for the record I have only ever used legally obtained Adobe products.

Which products are you using? Have you actually paid the multiple hundreds for a new version, or are you using the cheaper home versions (which are still available in a box at the same price as before?)

Despite the aforementioned rampant piracy I see this as a bad move myself. I personally would never subscribe to a setup like this in a million years. And for the record I have only ever used legally obtained Adobe products.

“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Verno wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:05:I don't know, its probably better for small businesses and students in the long run so I can sorta get behind this. The number of pirated copies of CS in a college setting would shock most people, the high cost was always a barrier of entry even with student/academic licensing models sometimes.

Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

Adobe doesn't care about #2, for good reason. If you're a hobbyist you're likely using a pirated version. If you pay, it's actually cheaper this way, assuming you like the newest versions. PhotoShop is $20 per month.

And, for the hobbyist, PhotoShop Elements is still a stand alone.

I'd guess the vast majority of people bitching, not everyone in this thread but overall, has pirated most of the Adobe CS products they've used.

I think the people who will be hurt the most will be freelancers/artists/small businesses. These are people who buy and pay for Photoshop to do stuff like publish online comics, touch up wedding photos, do web design, etc. and can afford to buy the software only every other or every third generation.

Yeah, the guy that upgrades PhotoShop rarely for something like that, but $19.99 per month isn't terrible if you use it for business, and since we admit most of those people rarely upgrade, what is stopping them from continuing to use their old version?

Also, I agree with the "GIMP sucks" thought stream. I wanted PhotoShop just for simple cutting and pasting at work. Not enough to buy PhotoShop, but enough that I needed something better than posting screenshots into PowerPoint and cropping them. I tried GIMP.Man, GIMP is so painful to use.

Thankfully we eventually moved to Windows 7 and I could just use the genius Snip tool. Why did that take so long to come!?

Verno wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:05:I don't know, its probably better for small businesses and students in the long run so I can sorta get behind this. The number of pirated copies of CS in a college setting would shock most people, the high cost was always a barrier of entry even with student/academic licensing models sometimes.

Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

Adobe doesn't care about #2, for good reason. If you're a hobbyist you're likely using a pirated version. If you pay, it's actually cheaper this way, assuming you like the newest versions. PhotoShop is $20 per month.

And, for the hobbyist, PhotoShop Elements is still a stand alone.

I'd guess the vast majority of people bitching, not everyone in this thread but overall, has pirated most of the Adobe CS products they've used.

I think the people who will be hurt the most will be freelancers/artists/small businesses. These are people who buy and pay for Photoshop to do stuff like publish online comics, touch up wedding photos, do web design, etc. and can afford to buy the software only every other or every third generation.

I use Photoshop and Acrobat Pro at work every day for hours at a time, and Illustrator almost every week. I refuse to pay a subscription - this is a great opportunity for Adobe's major competitors. Impress me and I'll switch, and all my colleagues will as well.

This is just a corporation that feels they have a monopoly and so they should leverage it to the hilt. Bad mistake.

But to Photoshop ? Have you guys even looked at GIMP? That is a complete train wreck of usability nightmares, the fact that it doesn't have a FULL SCREEN CONTAINED GUI is the death sentence before any other consideration.

I had to use GIMP for some game projects and I nearly jumped off a cliff. That is how much it drove me nuts (especially how it handles 32bit PNG and Alpha vs Transparency) oh my, fucking, god.

If you have no idea what I talk about there, be thankful. Be very very thankful. Personally I am going to CS6 and then never upgrade again. 90% of Photoshop work is plugins that you can't "cloud" anything. And you need it localized anyway because game development IS NOT RUNNING ON A FUCKING CLOUD.

Though I guess if it's just subscription it is not as bad as cloud. But yeah, I wish adobe good luck with that. If there was another alternative to Photoshop, one that is NOT named GIMP I'd long since use it.

Verno wrote on May 7, 2013, 11:05:I don't know, its probably better for small businesses and students in the long run so I can sorta get behind this. The number of pirated copies of CS in a college setting would shock most people, the high cost was always a barrier of entry even with student/academic licensing models sometimes.

Yeah. There are typically 2 users of Adobe products:1) Corporate/business users, who make a lot of money off of Adobe and pay for Adobe2) Home/hobby users, who do not pay for Adobe

Adobe doesn't care about #2, for good reason. If you're a hobbyist you're likely using a pirated version. If you pay, it's actually cheaper this way, assuming you like the newest versions. PhotoShop is $20 per month.

And, for the hobbyist, PhotoShop Elements is still a stand alone.

I'd guess the vast majority of people bitching, not everyone in this thread but overall, has pirated most of the Adobe CS products they've used.