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My pastor has been doing a series of dreadfully boring sermons, so to prevent nodding off, I've been trying to translate some of the morning hymns into greek. Can someone critique the following effort?

One question also: where would I place the article in this section
[face=SPIonic]pas eteros xqonos[/face] ?
Also, if i wanted to use 'men..de' construction: they would just be the second word in each sentence, correct?

"On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand..."

JauneFlammee wrote:My pastor has been doing a series of dreadfully boring sermons, so to prevent nodding off, I've been trying to translate some of the morning hymns into greek. Can someone critique the following effort?

I think you have studied more Greek than I have but I hope you won't mind if I make a few comments anyway.(I have this picture in my mind of someone sitting in Church, chewing on his pencil, notepad on his knee, looking at the ceiling. )

I think the third word should be a)sfala= According to Middle Liddell e)pi/stamai is Ionic. Maybe you want to use e)fi/stamai.Maybe a movable Nu on esti -> estin a)/mmoj can also be a(/mmoj. I don't know if a movable Nu goes before a rough breathing or not.a)/mmoj is feminine so you would have to have the fem. participle, katadu/ousa.

JauneFlammee wrote:One question also: where would I place the article in this section[face=SPIonic]pas eteros xqonos[/face] ?

I don't know if it needs an article

JauneFlammee wrote:Also, if i wanted to use 'men..de' construction: they would just be the second word in each sentence, correct?

That's right. I don't think I would use men but only de (I can't explain why though)

I sure hope I won't be the only one commenting because my comments will likely need comments.

Thanks Bert,
I appreciate your comments, I may have read a bit more but you are a far more detail oriented studier,as far as I can tell your correct on all accounts.
[face=SPIonic]e)pi/stamai[/face] was completely the wrong word.
[face=SPIonic]asfela[/face] was a spelling error on my part. And I need to brush up on my participles a bit. The great thing about composition is it shows you how much you don't know.
I wish the moderators would start a composition board. It would go well with composition downloads, I'm just not sure there would be any interest.

Here's a composition challenge for you Bert (and other textkitters). Here's a few lines from a short poem (pre-1900: no copyright), no strange words.
(Be Strong, by Maltbie Davenport Babcock, circa 1890).

Be Strong!
We are not here to play, to dream to drift;
We have hard work to do, and loads to lift;
Shun not the struggle-face it; tis God's gift

(I spent about 45 minutes doing a really horrid botch translation which I'm too embarrassed to post: the only uncommon word might be 'play' which i think is [face=SPIonic] paizw [/face].

Sure. Rub it in. I took a lot of work for me.
[face=SPIonic]e)/ste karti/stoiou)k e)sme\n i(na pai/zwmen h)\[/face] dream [face=SPIonic]h)\ planw/meqadei= poiei=n h(mi=n polu\ e)/rgon kai\ fe/rein fora/j[/face]I don't have anything for the third line yet but it is bed time now.

I don't imagine that my word for strong means the kind of mental strength this poem speaks of.

it's not at all right/proper to loiter idly, without a share in deeds/actions,
and so taking courage stand up, and accomplish the things to be done,
and receive (inf. as imperat. in epic) the fine gifts from far-shooting apollo.

i'll go have some lunch and see if this makes sense at all after

edit: changed (ekhbo/lou to e(khbo/lou, still don't have spionic so i miss things like this...

Last edited by chad on Fri Dec 17, 2004 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

hi will, thanks for the tips the 1st thing that came to mind was "tou/neka qarsh/saj" and then an adapted plural form of the "to\ de\ kai\ tete..." formula used elsewhere in homer, but then i thought de\ wouldn't follow the aor. ppl. very well, so i put an imperat. in the hemiepes part (as your article puts it) instead of the tou/neka and then to avoid having too many de/-s i changed them to te/-s because i was getting hungry. 15 mins later after a spanish empanada i feel a lot better i've just realised another problem with this is that i'm referring to apollo, giver of the fine things, in a forum about biblical greek... that can't be good

Aww... you changed [face=spionic]fe/rein fora/j[/face] for "loads to lift" which I quite liked... you preserved the alliteration.

I'd be inclined to use [face=spionic]para\ qeou=[/face] for "from god." I'm more used to [face=spionic]para/[/face] for things like letters and orders coming from someone, so it seems like it would work here, too.

annis wrote:Aww... you changed [face=spionic]fe/rein fora/j[/face] for "loads to lift" which I quite liked... you preserved the alliteration.

You are right about the "Aww." It was un-intentional.
Yesterday when I typed this up I had [face=SPIonic]ai)/rein [/face]and a blank for burden.
When I found a word for load ([face=SPIonic]fora/j[/face]) I thought it would be logical to use [face=SPIonic]fe/rein [/face]instead of [face=SPIonic]ai)/rein [/face]but I didn't change it in my notes. So, lo and behold, today I typed the word I didn't want.
I appreciate your comments.
I figured you would be the one to come up with something in (hexa)metre but Chad was the one.
I thoroughly enjoyed doing this bit of composition but I can't make it sound poetic yet, even though Chad, in his article, makes it sound so easy.[face=Arial][/face][face=Arial][/face][face=Arial][/face]

Hey, mine wasn't that far off after all. I don't have time to write it all out and its pretty similar to yours Bert, except I used a string of infinitives for line 2. The only real differnce is I used [face=SPIonic]apexw[/face] and [face=SPIonic]metexw[/face] for 'shirk' and 'face it'.

Thanks for taking up the challenge everyone.

Heres the rest of the poem if anyone is interested to tackle it further. If I get time I'll try to tackle a section but I'm super busy right now. Hopefully Annis and Chad will have a hexameter face-off.

Be strong!
Say not, "The days are evil. Who's to blame?"
And fold the hands and acquiesce -- oh shame!
Stand up, speak out, and bravely in God's name.

Be Strong!
It matters not how deep entrenched the wrong,
How hard the battle goes, the day how long;
Faint not - fight on! Tommorrow comes the song.

Today and yesterday I had some extra time on my hands, I sure won't be able to spend as much time on this on a regular basis.
It is tough to try and translate some of the idiomatic phrases, but here is my attempt.
[face=SPIonic]krataiou=sqe.mh\ le/gete o(/ti [/face]"[face=SPIonic] h(me/rai kakai/ ei)sin. ti\j ai)/tios au)twn;[/face]"[face=SPIonic]e(/zesqe kai\ me/lete; po/poi.i(/stasqe de\ kai\ e)cei/rete eu)kardi/wj e)n o)no/mati Qeou=

annis wrote:So I'm taking an occasional look at the poem text, thinking about how I might tackle this or that phrase, and I find this:

Faint not - fight on! Tommorrow comes the song.

"Tomorrow comes the song." What in the world does this mean? You get the sabbath off? Is there a musical prelude to the rapture? What?

This is the first time I have seen this hymn.
JauneFlammee translated is as 'cry of victory'.
I think he means that it represents the moment of Christ's return, when the struggle will end.
I am inclined to think that it means to indicate the contrast between here and the new heaven and earth. Between struggling and singing. That's why I choose to translate it as 'we will be singing.'
So, you were close when you asked if we get the sabbath off. The "hereafter" is also refered to as the "eternal sabbath."

Does this subject matter remind anyone else of the 'Choice of Heracles' by Xenophon? I don't have it handy and I'm not sure there is an online version, but I bet most of the lines could be lifted straight from that story.