And the title just about sums it up. I'll try not to ramble and I'm sure by the end I'll have an actual question or point.

I have been interested in ... well I guess I don't even know. Ok NOW I'll try not to ramble.

I'll start with saying that I know for sure I am a masochist and I want to experiment with submission / bottoming. I have played online with some wonderful people that have helped me learn a lot about myself but imagination and reality are sometimes worlds apart and I want to experience the reality.

So I have met someone local on fetlife. We have quite a few kinks in common (The only problem I have with fetlife is the misuse of the word fetish) and have similar boundaries. So he invited me for coffee. I got very evasive, he lamented the days before the paranoia of the internet and I decided, well fuck it, it's just coffee, setting a date for a week later, giving myself time to wrap my head around the idea.

Now I am both nervous and excited. I know there are no expectations. I know this is simply seeing if there is any actual attraction and connection. I also know if I don't suck it up and jump out of the cyber world at some point I will be wondering forever what I am missing. I've come close to deciding to meet locals before and just ... chickened out I guess.

Ok maybe there are no points or questions within this post. Maybe I just need to ramble this out to people who aren't going to say "You're meeting a sadist for coffee?! Are you insane?!?"

I think the internet has given us the means of quicker communication but it doesn't really tell you what's going on in someones mind if we're honest with ourselves.

You have been given great advise already with keeping meetings in public places... get to know this person properly before you commit to anything... you are embarking on an adventure and you need to be totally reassured you're handing over control (if you want it to go this far) to someone you can trust.

__________________
Quality not Quantity and curvy ones are more juicy!!!

If you're already on Fetlife, I'd suggest finding a local munch and going to meet others and talk to them.

Of course, some are creepier than a coffee with a sadist.

__________________
"Gemini-born men are intellectual, energetic, enthusiastic and fun to be with, but they are stunningly unpredictable. Are they fully reliable? Well, it is doubtful. Itís not because they are deceitful, disloyal or dishonest, itís because they are so prone to change their minds and shift to newer, more exciting things that it is very difficult to know what they are up to."

If anyone ever makes a joke about "paranoia" or "the good ol' days" or is anything less than 100 percent behind what-the-fuck-ever hesitation I express due to my own safety concerns, that's setting off an alert at the back of my mind.

Now it may be a "just kidding", a nothing, I'd give someone the benefit of the doubt for coffee, but it's one reason that they get the super caution treatment. They have now doubled down on my "not getting into their car for some time" resolve. They now have to really prove themselves more.

The entire purpose of meeting this person would be to see if ANY of my other boundaries are crossed, questioned, or minimized during this conversation. ONE and forget it at this point. This person would be going in with a serious strike against them, with me.

The tone of how it was said would matter, but still doesn't change the implication. Haha, just kidding? Hmmm indeed.

__________________If I had my way we'd sleep every night all wrapped around each other like hibernating rattlesnakes.

If anyone ever makes a joke about "paranoia" or "the good ol' days" or is anything less than 100 percent behind what-the-fuck-ever hesitation I express due to my own safety concerns, that's setting off an alert at the back of my mind.

Now it may be a "just kidding"

(Take this as general rant, not specifically directed at you, Netzach.)

One of the reasons why I have learned to hate internet dating with a passion are women chickening out. I really wish I would own a copy of the Point of View Gun. It's always us guys that are supposed to understand the position of the weak, innocent, endangered females - I wish we would deserve this very same treatment and that at least once a woman tries to understand the point of view of a man. It just plain sucks to get stood up over and over and over again. It sucks and frustrates and why shouldn't we express this frustration? It scares you? So what, we are spending most of the time trying to figure out if we are chasing a Fata Morgana, because 99% of the time we are.

We have spent days, weeks, nights chatting with you, sharing our secrets, learning yours and tried our best to fawn over you. And then we aren't even worth half an hour of your real life and a coffee _we_ will pay for. The bum two blocks from you has spent more time with you in real life than we did - you walked past after all.

So, while you picture yourself already as Norman Bates next victim when you just leave your apartment and ponder, whether this date is worth the risk, it really merely comes down to the question, whether you have the decency to have a date with your date or not.

Thank god I'm married and past all this.

So, no, I don't think he was just kidding. I don't think either that it makes him more or less creepier. It just shows that you are not the first person he tried to date (and no, this doesn't make a guy creepier either.) Yes, Norman Bates might say something like this to entice his victim. But worrying about whether he is dangerous or not because of this is about as useful as worrying about whether you have a car accident on the way or not and if this shouldn't be reason enough to cancel the whole idea of meeting someone. Seriously, please...

__________________
"Gemini-born men are intellectual, energetic, enthusiastic and fun to be with, but they are stunningly unpredictable. Are they fully reliable? Well, it is doubtful. Itís not because they are deceitful, disloyal or dishonest, itís because they are so prone to change their minds and shift to newer, more exciting things that it is very difficult to know what they are up to."

In my experience, if you're going to meet IRL you might as well do it relatively soon.
I'd rather meet casually for coffee a few times in public places than chat "forever" and build great expectations and often a false sense of security.

(Take this as general rant, not specifically directed at you, Netzach.)

One of the reasons why I have learned to hate internet dating with a passion are women chickening out. I really wish I would own a copy of the Point of View Gun. It's always us guys that are supposed to understand the position of the weak, innocent, endangered females - I wish we would deserve this very same treatment and that at least once a woman tries to understand the point of view of a man. It just plain sucks to get stood up over and over and over again. It sucks and frustrates and why shouldn't we express this frustration? It scares you? So what, we are spending most of the time trying to figure out if we are chasing a Fata Morgana, because 99% of the time we are.

We have spent days, weeks, nights chatting with you, sharing our secrets, learning yours and tried our best to fawn over you. And then we aren't even worth half an hour of your real life and a coffee _we_ will pay for. The bum two blocks from you has spent more time with you in real life than we did - you walked past after all.

So, while you picture yourself already as Norman Bates next victim when you just leave your apartment and ponder, whether this date is worth the risk, it really merely comes down to the question, whether you have the decency to have a date with your date or not.

Thank god I'm married and past all this.

So, no, I don't think he was just kidding. I don't think either that it makes him more or less creepier. It just shows that you are not the first person he tried to date (and no, this doesn't make a guy creepier either.) Yes, Norman Bates might say something like this to entice his victim. But worrying about whether he is dangerous or not because of this is about as useful as worrying about whether you have a car accident on the way or not and if this shouldn't be reason enough to cancel the whole idea of meeting someone. Seriously, please...

Oh, don't get me wrong. I am not saying "bail now and freak out!" - which some people totally would. I'm just saying "see if this establishes a pattern, and if it does, fuck that noise."

"It scares you, so what?"

Well, so I don't have to show up if you scare me that much, and fuck you. Not you, personally, just that's the reaction that attitude brings out. Remember I've screened clients, I've always had to be hyper sensitive to that scent of bitter entitlement that a worker wants to avoid at all costs for her safety.

It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when someone is negative about the process and demoralization of the dating process itself. Yeah, it's bullshit to pretend to like things you don't but that's the social contract of dating in a way - you get to see one another at your cheeriest and most positive. It's the job interview of the fuck-world, and the bitter bastard does NOT get hired.

Like how a guy has every right to bail on some chick who can't stop talking about her ex, comes across as a potential stalker weirdo, or for ANY reason that makes him feel unsafe also. (Not only guys are dangerous fuckers.)

I'm one of the first people in line to say "get off your computer and check the person out IRL, in public"

However, personal safety trumps the other person's demoralization. Period. Whether you're men, women or whatever. The only thing you can be responsible for is your own safety, and this includes the emotional safety of being dicked around - it's fine for a dude to have boundaries around those expectations also. I think it's totally respectable when a guy's profile is like "coffee soon, no games, not here for internet relationship, have references, be ready to meet."

Flaky standing-ups suck, and it's not just guys who are on that end. Having dated and pursued women, I can't think of a more demoralizing process offhand.

But nobody ever died. Soldier on.

__________________If I had my way we'd sleep every night all wrapped around each other like hibernating rattlesnakes.

it's fine for a dude to have boundaries around those expectations also.

No, it's not.

Well, yes, of course.

About what kind of reality are we talking now?

__________________
"Gemini-born men are intellectual, energetic, enthusiastic and fun to be with, but they are stunningly unpredictable. Are they fully reliable? Well, it is doubtful. Itís not because they are deceitful, disloyal or dishonest, itís because they are so prone to change their minds and shift to newer, more exciting things that it is very difficult to know what they are up to."

First thank you for you replies, and I am really glad my post sparked a small debate. I agree with both sides of it.

His frustration was a small red flag for me too. Something to be wary of but not focus on. Once I agreed and then told him I was really bloody nervous. He then told me we didn't have to meet up immediately and could do what ever I was comfortable with. We discussed it back and forth a bit and he made me realise he had as much to worry about as I do, in a way, we're both worried about the possibility of meeting crazies. Once that clicked I relaxed quite a bit and the banter has been a lot more relaxed and enjoyable since. I am still being cautious. Hubby wanted to take the day off work and stalk us just to make sure I was safe, but I thought that was a bit much. (Now that I think about that, maybe hubby would be more open to the idea of going to a munch with me) I do have to call hubby and another friend before and after, and hubby would really like me to drop past his work place afterwards. We haven't set a meeting place as yet, but most of the cafes in the area that we are meeting in are very open and very public.

Primalex, I think the world would be so much easier with a POV gun. And I do think his reaction was a venting of frustration more than a manipulation tactic, but I'll get a better idea of that on Tuesday.

This may be a mildly paranoid tactic, but if I were at all suspicious that I might be meeting a crazy, I'd opt for a coffee place that does not provide refills. That just puts a natural end point on the conversation if you want it to. And if you're enjoying the conversation, you can always suggest a second cup or a walk to someplace else, like a park for more talk.

This may be a mildly paranoid tactic, but if I were at all suspicious that I might be meeting a crazy, I'd opt for a coffee place that does not provide refills. That just puts a natural end point on the conversation if you want it to. And if you're enjoying the conversation, you can always suggest a second cup or a walk to someplace else, like a park for more talk.

That's a good thing to consider, and I wouldn't consider it paranoid, I consider it appropriately cautious.

Luckily very few places in Australia offer free refill and they are not the type of place I'd pick for a first meeting. I'm also not a coffee drinker, so I need to be somewhere that does a good hot chocolate... oooh actually a chocolate milkshake. It's too hot for hot chocolate.

That's a good thing to consider, and I wouldn't consider it paranoid, I consider it appropriately cautious.

Luckily very few places in Australia offer free refill and they are not the type of place I'd pick for a first meeting. I'm also not a coffee drinker, so I need to be somewhere that does a good hot chocolate... oooh actually a chocolate milkshake. It's too hot for hot chocolate.

Go ahead and rub it in while we prepare for what passes as frozen winter here.

So today's the day. I sit here nervous, semi-casually dressed, hair and makeup as perfect as my nervous hands could get them. And I don't wear make up often these days.
Shit I just realised I have no idea what this guy looks like. I only got his name this morning. He knows what I look like at least

Hi. Okay so it looks like you are a resident somewhere in Australia - where I spend most of every year and have done for awhile.

Australia has an active 'scene.' Especially in Sydney and Melbourne, but it hasn't been beyond the capacity of Perth to throw a few parties too.

That certain 'attraction factor' I believe, is the absolute key to any of these rl situations. The only problem with gatherings of many people is that they can be a bit overwhelming in terms of what is already going on and how far 'into' things people already are. Sydney in particular has some parties in which there are people from all over the world and some of them are extremely glamorous and clearly wealthy people - and that 'might' be a little like a form of unseen wall around them that makes them unapproachable.

It isn't so easy though to co-ordinate time away from what your 'normal' daily life's demands are to get around enough to reach that 'right person.'

I used to post on something called AUSBDSM and found that the way to work out what people are like is to go by the 'way' they wrote and the things they said. I have never met a person in rl who did not reflect a lot about themselves in what they wrote. 'Odd' people tend to say odd and repetitive things when they post stuff online.

But there are some extremely fine people here too and those who are outgoing and friendly are excellent leads into a broader array of people.

I am not personally one of those overtly friendly or outgoing types and so on, and nowadays I don't even make myself as 'available' as I once may have, partly because of business interests and demands and practicality. Anyone with any involvement with being officially responsible for other people also to be concerned to do the right thing at all times... Teachers and so on(which I'm not btw).

But I do know a lot... about a lot... And if you give me a few clues about your walk of life I might be able to point you in directions that are meaningful and safe.

And I do hope others will chime in if I am, but I see two problems. And, respectfully, both seem to lie with you.

First, I agree wholeheartedly with the boundaries issue. If he will minimize one, he may minimize others. As a possible bottom or submissive or, possibly, even a masochist, you will have some issues with boundaries until you have a little more experience. But, how do you get the experience?

Eh... why does the phrase "as a virgin on her wedding night" keep popping in my head?

Second, and this is more problematic... if you do happen to have true masochistic tendencies rather than submissive or bottom, then you may not have the well-honed defense mechanisms of others. Any nervousness you feel as your subconscious tries to tell you "hey now, this here just ain't right" may be sublimated with the excitement and potential arousal.

I would suggest in the meantime that you make a list. On this list, put the boundaries that you will NOT accept him crossing, including on first meeting. And err on the side of conservative until you get a little better feel. Hopefully there are some good hearted submissives that will help you with that, as I tend the other side of the coin.

But, I can tell you that minimizing nervousness at a first meeting is a danger sign. He doesn't know you well enough to start reaching for your buttons to see how the controls respond. Until the contract is made, he should act as gentlemanly as a prom date in front of your parents. But, that last is only my opinion and how I tend to be until the contract is made. Then, and only then, will I pull out the flogger and the six foot whip. And then only if it's in the contract.

__________________
The difference between genius and stupidity is usually the audience.