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“The point here is that the things sold in the store do not give a clear advantage to other players.”

Few cash stores give a items which give players a direct advantage over other players. P2W is creeping in by giving players an indirect advantage. Anything which gets you to top level in PvE faster makes you better at PvP, XP boosts, buffs, teleport potions etc. Passes which allow you to do raids which get you PvP gear. All indirect but all P2W.

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For those of you who don't know, the game "Neverwinter Nights" published by Bioware is not the first Dungeons & Dragons game by that name.

AOL hosted a Neverwinter Nights game back before the internet was even available to the average Joe. It was the first MMO that had graphics. The server could hold 150 people (with upgrades it was later bumped to 300).

As you can imagine everyone knew everyone. It was in this game that the acronyms (pvp, afk, ect) were created and guilds were first created there as well.

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Originally posted by MumboJumboI would say that trailer is atrocious, but it avoided using CGI so I won't that far. What exactly was that show-casing??

or people could do a modicum of research and see there are numerous gameplay vids from all the cons like E3 and Pax. Neverwinter has also taken best of show at Pax East and Gamescom 2012.

So for those of you that are holding your breath in anticipation of the invite (turning blue here Cryptic/PWE save a fellow) I've compiled a list of gameplay videos to take the edge off I apologize if there are duplicates however my eyes started to cross after awhile Also some of these are interviews with gameplay. For those of you that are interested the video with Athene speaking to Andy covers some things about PVPhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylmYK...yer_detailpage

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Originally posted by Arcona

People really whining about P2W in a PvE game?

Not that I have seen anything that show P2W in this game.

Because it's PWE, F2P, and has a Cash Shop. Same reason why people rant that GW2 is P2W even though there is nothing there that gives a player an advatage. Karma/XP boosts are not an advantage over a player.

It is in my book. It just so happens that the day they announced Beta schedule they release these founders pack that grant CB access, all CB as it stands are paid for from either TL2 and RaiderZ with the exception of the lifetime members from STO and CO, they enphasize several times that it grants you beta access not to mention the very first line in the video is summed up as "bu founders packl and get Beta access." They ARE selling beta access, closed beta access at that. If they did not include it in the package I will gurantee that the packs will not nearly as sell as well and they know this. Beta access is the new sales pitch or carrot on the stick to sell pre-orders or "founders packs."

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BETA = painfull test you done at your own time, full of alg = little pleasure, IMO.

I have no idea who and why can pay for beta test on himself.=D

Beside 200$ for ANY game is too much, even if it's a very good game. My WoW standard tell me that in case game cost 200$ + even optional, 15$ per month must be 100% same quality as WoW

I have no idea how to find out game quality from beta test.

I have huge doubt this game can be even to WoW (when great names like Tera, GW2, Aion etc failed).

I guess I don't even want to try it for free as it sound like unfair money trap already.

Good luck with hypo and one more "innovative" Asian MMO.

For the record this isn't an asian MMO and wish people will get it through their heads. Neverwinter was already a finished product before PWE came into the picture and allowed Cryptic to develope the game more. When they did Cryptics was the one doing all the designing and artwork. Bout the only influence PWE is financial backing and probobly Cash Shop elements.

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Originally posted by RayshePersonally i think we need to stop Gaugeing Success via a Dollar Sign. "Success" should be something that has paramiters set by the company making the game. not by a bunch of no name internet junkies who throw around Xfire Stats.

Money is the score for activities within the economy. Its also the main reason for the exercise to start with. But only the company (and/or its investors/publisher) can determine if its profitable enough. As for the chattering class, managing their expectations and perceptions is what CM's and such are for.

If that isn't a sign of things to come then I don't know what is. I was looking forward to seeing this game but I'm not going to get nickled and dimed like that. I don't even want to see how they limit you in other aspects like storage.

It's the same character slot allotment you get in STO. It's more a sign that they seem to be modeling their micro-transactions like STO. They could always change it by launch, but it doesn't seem odd to me as it is.

They're going to monetize the game. All games do that. Take that as you will.

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I have to say, at this stage, knowing so little about what this game is really goint to be like - including the way in which we're going to pay for it, I really would never consider spending $200 on it. I'd rather leave it and see what the thing is like when it comes out. Been too badly burned by MMOs in the past to risk another hit...

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I said it long ago when this game was first announced and i will still to it...

"they will nickle and dime the player base threw the foundry".

That's my quote and if I am right you read it here, if not you can bash me, but that is the perfect cash shop ever devised. People that denied it before and probably now will rage against me with that comment, but if I was them I would be doing the same thing. Sadly, I just don't have that type of cash to throw around to make my stories ultra cool in chance that someone might actually play them out the of thousands that will be produced daily.

"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"