why is that all the people i count among my closest friends (excepting sarah, she feels my pain) have such long lasting relationships, and i can't even get a damn date. even amy found a guy, and now she got kicked off Virgin Island. dude i'm going to be 25 this year. it can't be ALL my fault can it? what the fuck am i doing wrong. im getting the hell out of sacramento this weekend, there's nothing worthwhile here.

I've been with someone (as friends) for the past year who was a "nice guy". He liked me as more, it wasn't mutual, and I often found him blaming this on him being "too nice". This isn't the first time it happened, but after being around someone a year, it's been on my mind a lot recently. These are pretty much the things I told him and I'm not directing it at you. I can't really say what YOU'RE doing wrong since I've never met you in person. Anyways, this is just my perspective and I'm not sure if there are any other girls out there who would agree with this (I seem to be pretty weird myself).

I've met too many guys who buy into the whole "nice guys finish last" cliche and use it as a cop out. I'm tired of hearing "I'm just too nice of a guy, if I was more of an asshole, you'd probably be more interested in me". The truth is, it had nothing to do with them being too nice. I think the real problem is with issues that many "nice" guys have.

Sometimes desperation and neediness is covered up as niceness. When it comes to romance, desperation and neediness are bad bad things. Sometimes they just try too hard and instead of winning the girl's affection, they scare her away.

Many "nice" guys are very shy and have trouble with their social skills and how they present themselves to girls. Shyness can also be a bad thing because they don't meet as many girls as the more outgoing and socialable "asshole". This also decreases their chances of a successful relationship because, since they aren't meeting as many different girls, they are also meeting less girls who are potientially their type.

Often the "nice" guy lacks self confidence. I can understand why someone might lack self confidence if it seems like girls always turn him down when he does try. But still, it's there, and when he lacks self confidence others can often tell. If he doesn't come across as thinking he's a great person (not to the extreme of being arrogant though), why should he expect girls to?

There are also some "nice" guys who are just too lazy and unambitious. I like guys who have goals and dreams... and not only that, they're actively working toward those goals through their own self motivation. I like guys who have hobbies and want to do fun things with me, not just because it's what I want to do and they want to please me, but because we're both having fun. I don't want a guy who is down all the time and expects me to be his savior. I don't want to have to tell him to do things before he will do them. I don't want to be his main motivation in life to achieve his goals. I'm not there to change him or solve his problems, and I dislike the pressure and guilt that comes with feeling like he expects that of me.

There are some girls out there who do seem to like the assholes, but I can't imagine why any emotionally healthy person would want to be with someone *because* they are mean and inconsiderate to them. And I definetely don't think "becoming an asshole" is a good strategy for getting in a healthy, long term relationship.

Sometimes desperation and neediness is covered up as niceness. When it comes to romance, desperation and neediness are bad bad things. Sometimes they just try too hard and instead of winning the girl's affection, they scare her away.

yeah that's me... i actually got told once i was trying too hard, but unfortunately i have no idea what that means, and no gauge to measure it against.

Many "nice" guys are very shy and have trouble with their social skills and how they present themselves to girls. Shyness can also be a bad thing because they don't meet as many girls as the more outgoing and socialable "asshole". This also decreases their chances of a successful relationship because, since they aren't meeting as many different girls, they are also meeting less girls who are potientially their type.

yeah shy, that's me. i don't have any social skills.

Often the "nice" guy lacks self confidence. I can understand why someone might lack self confidence if it seems like girls always turn him down when he does try. But still, it's there, and when he lacks self confidence others can often tell. If he doesn't come across as thinking he's a great person (not to the extreme of being arrogant though), why should he expect girls to?

where does the confidence come from, and how do you fake it? and why is it such a huge deal?

There are also some "nice" guys who are just too lazy and unambitious. I like guys who have goals and dreams... and not only that, they're actively working toward those goals through their own self motivation. I like guys who have hobbies and want to do fun things with me, not just because it's what I want to do and they want to please me, but because we're both having fun

someone at work asked me today what i enjoy doing that i'm really good at, and i couldn't think of an answer, except perhaps writing which i never take the time to do.

yeah that's me... i actually got told once i was trying too hard, but unfortunately i have no idea what that means, and no gauge to measure it against.

What I consider trying too hard is when it feels like a guy is trying to "force" me to like him. Here are some examples:

-we just met and I was nice to him. He clings to my side for the rest of the night without letting me out of his sight.

-he knows my schedule and is always waiting for me. If I'm not available for something, he is... anytime I want, and he's sure to let me know.

-I'm gone for a couple of days. When I come back, he goes on and on about how much he missed me.

-he buys me gifts all the time, even though I barely know him and I never gave him anything

-when we walk together on the sidewalk, he inches closer to me. I inch away. He inches closer to me again. Pretty soon, I'm walking on the grass.

-I talk about something I'm interested in, and he says "it's so cool that you like that!", but doesn't ask any questions about it or show any sincere interest

-he moves too fast and is always going on and on about how great I am... even though I still feel like I hardly know him and that I haven't opened up enough to him for him to like me that much

-he never takes initiative because he wants to please me and do whatever I want. Sometimes I'll mention doing something and can tell he isn't really into it but he'll do it anyway just for me, and he never dares to suggest that I do the same for him.

-we're hanging out with other people, and a guy comes up to me and touches me in a flirty way. Seeing that it worked and I let it happen, he tries to do the same exact thing.

-he ASKS if he can hold my hand/kiss me

-the cliche "give him and inch, and he'll take a mile" frequently comes to mind when we hang out

That is by no means an all inclusive list, but some experiences that I've personally had. The thing is, not all the things on that list are necessarily bad things for a guy to do in a relationship. It's more about the timing... too much too soon and before the girl reciprocates will just make you look desperate.

where does the confidence come from, and how do you fake it? and why is it such a huge deal?

Basically, it comes from having a healthy self esteem and being secure with yourself. Take a look at this simple graph:

insecure--|-----|-----|-----|--arrogant

It's good to be in the middle and not too far on either side. It's a huge deal because guys who are more sure of themselves are more attractive than guys who aren't. Some of the things on my other list can also be traced to lack of confidence. For example, "he ASKS if he can hold my hand/kiss me" is bad because it shows lack of confidence. A guy with more confidence wouldn't have asked. This doesn't mean it would have been ok to just do it... a guy also needs to be aware of signals the girl is giving off and have good timing.

someone at work asked me today what i enjoy doing that i'm really good at, and i couldn't think of an answer, except perhaps writing which i never take the time to do.

Maybe that's something you should work on? Maybe you should go out and join something, volunteer, join a club, or travel more. And I'm not just saying this so you can meet people and get dates... it should be something you actually have fun doing. Not only would it give you opportunities to meet people with that common interest, but you would also be learning new things and it would give you things to talk about. Didn't you say something about volunteering for the SPCA before? Whatever happened with that?

Anyway, I'm far from a relationship expert. This is mostly just stuff I've experienced with "bad dates/guys who liked me" and what I thought the guys were doing wrong with me personally. Have you talked to any other girls about this? Maybe you should get some other opinions.