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wondim

Posted 19 November 2012 - 11:50 PM

wondim

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Member

29 posts

Joined 25-April 09

@Tihiy

I really like your tool! I used Ex7forW8 and that is perfect too! So I want to contribute to make StartisBack even better. As I previously installed Ex7forW8, when installing StartisBack, I reverted back to Win8 explorer.
Below of are list of my suggestion.
1. No start menu shortcuts for StartisBack. I have to go to C:/Program Files (x86)/StartisBack to open the StartisBack. It is difficult to find the tool for beginners and time taking for advanced users too, till they create short cuts.
2. In StatisBack configuration, under Start Menu  Power default actions, there is no way of setting Hibernate as default. Hibernate is not at all in the list but it still exists on start menu.
3. Not 64bit application. The 32bit works on 64bit but having a native 64bit edition add value to the tool as some might not like 32bit apps on 64bit machine.
4. The term Modern UI make it feels like the App is Windows 8 UI fan. It makes me feel like Windows 8 UI is modern and Windows 7 UI is traditional. Why not just say Windows 8 UI instead. Modern UI is a vague word to understand in as it doesn’t refer to anything.
5. Under Modern UI, “use hotkeys to invoke Start Screen:” it is useful but it doesn’t turn off metro completely! To know if metro exists or not after unchecking that command, I just opened a video with the metro – video app. It opened it without any problems. The metro is still there! So would you add another command to completely kill this tablet metro? To avoid not implemented error messages when using metro apps from desktop, it is better to completely remove them from associated programs list, if possible. Say when I click on open with on a video file, I shouldn’t see video metro app. Thus the “not implemented “error will go away!

roirraWedorehT

Posted 20 November 2012 - 06:53 AM

roirraWedorehT

The Keeper of a lot of Useless Knowledge

Member

321 posts

Joined 09-December 06

OS:Windows 8 x64

Country:

1. No start menu shortcuts for StartisBack. I have to go to C:/Program Files (x86)/StartisBack to open the StartisBack. It is difficult to find the tool for beginners and time taking for advanced users too, till they create short cuts.

I know you directly addressed Tihiy, but I'm going to respond anyway. Hope you don't mind.

What shortcut is necessary for StartIsBack? Once installed it runs automatically. Configuring StartIsBack is just like configuring the Windows 7 Start Menu, right click either on the Orb or the Start Menu itself and choose Properties.

2. In StatisBack configuration, under Start Menu  Power default actions, there is no way of setting Hibernate as default. Hibernate is not at all in the list but it still exists on start menu.

Seconded. I use Hibernate often and although at this current moment I prefer the power default be Lock, if I ever change that again it would probably be to Hibernate.

3. Not 64bit application. The 32bit works on 64bit but having a native 64bit edition add value to the tool as some might not like 32bit apps on 64bit machine.

The configuration program might not be 64-bit but StartIsBack itself has both 32 and 64-bit DLLs for the appropriate system. It is the DLLs which actually make StartIsBack work. Personally, I don't think there's reason enough to make a 64-bit version of the configuration program. It's a tiny program and certainly doesn't make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Unless someone can think of reasons which are more than aesthetic...?

4. The term Modern UI make it feels like the App is Windows 8 UI fan. It makes me feel like Windows 8 UI is modern and Windows 7 UI is traditional. Why not just say Windows 8 UI instead. Modern UI is a vague word to understand in as it doesn’t refer to anything.

Although it's confusing, Microsoft is who calls it "Modern UI" (previously known as Metro). It's already confusing enough without adding any more aliases for what it's called.

Under Modern UI, “use hotkeys to invoke Start Screen:” it is useful but it doesn’t turn off metro completely! To know if metro exists or not after unchecking that command, I just opened a video with the metro – video app. It opened it without any problems. The metro is still there! So would you add another command to completely kill this tablet metro? To avoid not implemented error messages when using metro apps from desktop, it is better to completely remove them from associated programs list, if possible. Say when I click on open with on a video file, I shouldn’t see video metro app. Thus the “not implemented “error will go away!

Tihiy (and anyone else) who kills Metro completely will then experience problems with some portions of the Desktop UI, which use parts of Metro to display, for instance, Wireless Networks, new drive detected interface (AutoRun) and other elements. This was one of the problems Tihiy fixed to the best of his ability in Ex7ForW8. SiB couldn't remain as elegant and direct as it is right now if Metro would actually be disabled. He'd then have to re-implement the "toast notifcations" just as he did in Ex7ForW8.

If he chooses to implement that possibility at some point or even soon, that's his choice and as long as the user can decide whether or not to turn Metro completely off or not, I don't think anyone would have any serious problem with it, but I doubt if that's a high priority on his to-do list.

Tihiy

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:26 AM

When disable all hot corners is disabled you can now select icons etc on the top 4 pixelsNew UI option to hide Windows 8 Modern UI applications from the Windows 7 start menuNew UI option to use ctrl + winkey as an alternative for right winkeyNew UI option to use shift + winkey as an alternative for right winkeyOne undocumented thing is a middle button click on the start button should open the Win8 menu

In August of 2012, rumors began circulating that one of Microsoft's retail partners, German company Metro AG, had threatened legal action against the software giant for infringing on the "Metro" trademark. A memo was sent out to developers and Microsoft employees to stop using the term "Metro" until a replacement term is established or the legal case is settled.[21] Microsoft is temporarily referring to the design language as Modern UI.[22] On August 9, 2012, it emerged that Microsoft was planning to use the term "Windows 8" to replace Metro in consumer marketing materials. The "Modern UI" term appears to be intended for developers who plan to build software based on Redmond's new design principles.[23]

Currently, the term "Microsoft design language" is used on MSDN documentation when referring to the design language (since September 2012). [24][25][26][27] Furthermore, in Microsoft's Build 2012 developer conference, the company also uses the "Microsoft design language" name. [28][29]

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:31 AM

When disable all hot corners is disabled you can now select icons etc on the top 4 pixelsNew UI option to hide Windows 8 Modern UI applications from the Windows 7 start menuNew UI option to use ctrl + winkey as an alternative for right winkeyNew UI option to use shift + winkey as an alternative for right winkeyOne undocumented thing is a middle button click on the start button should open the Win8 menu

Do you think you have a legal case against them? It is exactly the same changes you made.

wondim

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:36 AM

wondim

Newbie

Member

29 posts

Joined 25-April 09

I know you directly addressed Tihiy, but I'm going to respond anyway. Hope you don't mind.

What shortcut is necessary for StartIsBack? Once installed it runs automatically. Configuring StartIsBack is just like configuring the Windows 7 Start Menu, right click either on the Orb or the Start Menu itself and choose Properties.

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know where to access StartisBack. That is why I went to C drive. If there is no information where SiB can be accessed, it would be nice if an information is given at first installation.

The configuration program might not be 64-bit but StartIsBack itself has both 32 and 64-bit DLLs for the appropriate system. It is the DLLs which actually make StartIsBack work. Personally, I don't think there's reason enough to make a 64-bit version of the configuration program. It's a tiny program and certainly doesn't make use of more than 4GB of RAM. Unless someone can think of reasons which are more than aesthetic...?

Agreed!

Although it's confusing, Microsoft is who calls it "Modern UI" (previously known as Metro). It's already confusing enough without adding any more aliases for what it's called.

Microsoft is really confused in almost everything these days.

Tihiy (and anyone else) who kills Metro completely will then experience problems with some portions of the Desktop UI, which use parts of Metro to display, for instance, Wireless Networks, new drive detected interface (AutoRun) and other elements. This was one of the problems Tihiy fixed to the best of his ability in Ex7ForW8. SiB couldn't remain as elegant and direct as it is right now if Metro would actually be disabled. He'd then have to re-implement the "toast notifcations" just as he did in Ex7ForW8.If he chooses to implement that possibility at some point or even soon, that's his choice and as long as the user can decide whether or not to turn Metro completely off or not, I don't think anyone would have any serious problem with it, but I doubt if that's a high priority on his to-do list.

I haven't seen any issue with Ex7forW8 by disabling Metro UI. Actually I got peace. So it would be nice to give that option for the users really. It would be nice to give advice on what will happen, like kind of warning with a message of things that could happen.

roirraWedorehT

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:47 AM

roirraWedorehT

The Keeper of a lot of Useless Knowledge

Member

321 posts

Joined 09-December 06

OS:Windows 8 x64

Country:

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know where to access StartisBack. That is why I went to C drive. If there is no information where SiB can be accessed, it would be nice if an information is given at first installation.

I can understand that. If the configuration program only configured the Start Menu itself, like the original Start Menu Properties, then I wouldn't bother. Some people never know that you can configure/do other things with right-clicks. Quite often when I instruct someone I'm helping to right-click on something, they look at me like I'm crazy - they didn't know the right mouse button actually serves a purpose.

I haven't seen any issue with Ex7forW8 by disabling Metro UI. Actually I got peace. So it would be nice to give that option for the users really. It would be nice to give advice on what will happen, like kind of warning with a message of things that could happen.

When he first started developing Ex7ForW8, it became readily apparent that certain things were missing (wireless networks, other similar looking such notifications). He carefully added back in just those items that he had to so people wouldn't be missing things - which Metro previously handled. It was well done, which is why you don't have any issue, but is a little less elegant than this "keep it simple" solution. It won't surprise me if he considers doing this sometime in the future, but I wouldn't hold your breath - it might be a while.

At least for now you can disable all hot corners and never have to see it if that's what you choose.

Tihiy

Posted 20 November 2012 - 07:52 AM

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know where to access StartisBack. That is why I went to C drive. If there is no information where SiB can be accessed, it would be nice if an information is given at first installation.

It *IS* given at first installation and as well in FAQ. I may add a control panel item or start menu shortcut as well, but i hope it's not necessary.

itoy

Posted 20 November 2012 - 08:07 AM

itoy

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25 posts

Joined 16-October 12

OS:XP Pro x86

Country:

Thank you for the answer! I didn't know where to access StartisBack. That is why I went to C drive. If there is no information where SiB can be accessed, it would be nice if an information is given at first installation.

It *IS* given at first installation and as well in FAQ. I may add a control panel item or start menu shortcut as well, but i hope it's not necessary.

Tihiy

Posted 20 November 2012 - 09:29 AM

Oh ok, it only checks once per day. I must have never hit that point???? Is it hardcoded? When does it check?

Only when you run configurator. I may introduce checking in explorer as well, but i don't like obtrusive notifications (nobody does). Do you have an idea how to notify about new version if configurator is not running?

ISOHaven

Posted 20 November 2012 - 10:28 AM

ISOHaven

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Joined 11-October 12

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Oh ok, it only checks once per day. I must have never hit that point???? Is it hardcoded? When does it check?

Only when you run configurator. I may introduce checking in explorer as well, but i don't like obtrusive notifications (nobody does). Do you have an idea how to notify about new version if configurator is not running?

You mean it runs right away when you run the configurator but only once a day? In that case, something is broken. I got back into work this morning and as you can see from the screenshot....I'm not seeing where it's telling me there's a new version....