trilobyte wrote:Perhaps consider planning moop sweeps along the perimeter fence? Once on Thursday should give you a sense of the moop factor (you could see a bunch, a few, or none at all), and then another at the end of the event.

I approve this post

Burning Man isn't about the stuff you see when you get there ....it's about the people that brought that stuff there

sftex wrote:I've asked many of you point blank what YOU'VE done for Burning Man, what YOU CONTRIBUTE, what separates YOU from being a SPECTATOR or to put out the Principles and to date, none of you have answered.

perhaps if you interacted in eplaya outside the scope of your nose project you might become more familiar with the folks round these parts... becoming familiar with what they do, what they contribute, what their passions are, and what makes them anything but a spectator...and possibly, something more than just a troll...

it may be people havnt answered you because that kinda stuff is well known outside of this.. and other nose threads, youve participated in... the nose threads that youve participated in, nearly entirely to the exclusion of all other places in this little online community.

i think if you strayed out of this thread, and did more than browsing (spectating) but actual participating elsewhere on eplaya you might understand a bit more why this thread is at over 150 replies rather than languishing at 10... and that the reason for such a high rate of replies is not solely related to throwing stones and trolling...

motskyroonmatick wrote:I approve too but..... Will a nose go through the slits in the MOOP fence as it flaps in the wind? I see a staged test with a leaf blower in the future. Send me 25 noses and I'll do it...

See upthread. Must say, this project is *exactly* what Burning Man is all about these days.

Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~pieholePlan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

2 of the 3 years I've been at Burning Man, at some point in the week, a wonderful stranger offers me a tennis ball, with a whole cut in it to put on the kick stand of a bike. The first year, even though I wasn't riding a bike or had a bike, I took one. It has sat on our "Burning Man" shelf in our house ever since, as a keep sake. It has never been put on a kick stand. Last year I respectfully declined the tennis ball, even though I WAS on a bike.

Would a clown nose given as a gift, be much different than tennis balls with a whole cut in it? They're both made in China, Mexico, Korea, etc...

Just a thought.

Why don't ya stick your head in that hole and find out? ~pieholePlan for the worst, expect the best. Make the most out of it under any conditions. If you cannot do that you will never enjoy yourself. ~CrispyDave

Can't you put a tennis ball with a hole in it on your nose? That way it would be as liberating as a clown nose -- perhaps even more so. Who wants to look like all the other clowns, anyways? Besides that, it would be way less MOOP-inclined, and you could stash some certs or something in there when your utilikilt runs out of pockets.

If you want drama to stop following you everywhere, try letting go of the leash.

motskyroonmatick wrote:I approve too but..... Will a nose go through the slits in the MOOP fence as it flaps in the wind? I see a staged test with a leaf blower in the future. Send me 25 noses and I'll do it...

See upthread. Must say, this project is *exactly* what Burning Man is all about these days.

sftex wrote:...Every distribution point will have noses in 55 gallon (or smaller) plastic, heavy barrels, the tops of which will be covered by a sheet of latex that's been sealed around the top edge with a slit in the middle so people can reach in and grab a nose. Unless someone grabs too many at once, the Noses WON'T fly away at random, they are essentially sealed in place...

I like.

And like that you're thinking. I guess the various "trolls" expressing their concerns about the moop potential did finally succeed in getting through.

You might want to make sure these distribution barrels are clearly marked "NOT a trash can", or it could get a nasty mess, and wreck a lot of noses. Maybe include a spray stencil of some sort alternating between a clown face and a clown nose, to help indicate that this barrel has a purpose that is not for trash?

Does this mean that each nose will be lose inside that barrel? As in, you're no longer planning to package a nose with your "contact me" card into a little plastic bag?

sftex wrote:... I don't think to many people will fuck this up, but hey...you never know, it IS Burning Man and mistakes DO happen...

Surely no one at BM would ever get drunk enough to start throwing handfuls around, or tip a barrel over and empty it out.

sftex wrote:...If some Noses get loose, they get loose, but it won't be from ME or any supporters lack of making an effort to prevent that...

No. It's always someone else's fault. Like the consequences of a pillow fight: he who brought and made available the down pillows is creating a "foreseeable consequence". Like the seed bombs and the floating candle lanterns.

sftex wrote:...Last, I WILL have myself and others patrol the trash fence at least once a day in sections, to make a concerted effort to remove any "strays"...

Good start. Grabbing any Little Red Plastic Tumble-Weeds before they get out on the free-range playa, or past that and into the Black Rock Desert, would be a good thing.

Apart from plant matter, feathers and the like, most moop doesn't have travel-out-into-the-desert potential like the roll-in-the-wind potential of your Little Red Plastic Tumble-Weeds.

weather man wrote:Seriously.... I put one of these on the other day here in N. Nevada with a typical 25-30 mph afternoon wind ablowin'. It lasted about 5 seconds...As light as they are, once airborne, theys travel at pretty much the speed of the air around them...

But, if it's caught at the trash fence, it's not a problem. It's the ones that get past that fence. How far can they go? (hoping any get clogged down with playa dust, long before they reach the fence)Off the playa and out into the Black Rock Desert?What harm could 500, or 5,000, Little Red Plastic Tumble-Weeds do to fauna or flora?What can/will you do to retrieve them if they get loose past the fence onto the playa? Out into the Black Rock Desert?

sftex wrote:... Send me a PM with your phone number and I'll call you directly and we can discuss this as adults. That's right, you can CALL ME or I'll call YOU...

Not a chance. Keep the discussion on moop, which you've repeatedly trivialized, or ignored questions or concerns, (which you do have the right to do - however wise or unwise that may be) in the open, where all concerned can participate.

But, most importantly (to me anyway), glad to see you're finally responding, and showing you're at least thinking, about the moop potential.

Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries..... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

motskyroonmatick wrote:...Will a nose go through the slits in the MOOP fence as it flaps in the wind? I see a staged test with a leaf blower in the future. Send me 25 noses and I'll do it...

Well?Someone's offered. You can find out in advance some indication if there is or isn't a Past-The-Fence moop problem?Seems to me this is too valuable an offer to pass up.And maybe weather man would be willing to duplicate it? Or test a piece of same sized fence with the wind? Or a nose roll test on the ground in the dust to see if they keep rolling or clog up and get too heavy to get anywhere they can do damage?Maybe there's someone willing to let one loose on playa to see if the dust clogs it up and it gets too heavy to get anywhere it can do damage?It would be really nice to know in advance that they're not a problem, other than potentially some more cleanup within BRC's perimeter.

Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries..... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

sftex wrote:... I don't think to many people will fuck this up, but hey...you never know, it IS Burning Man and mistakes DO happen...

Surely no one at BM would ever get drunk enough to start throwing handfuls around, or tip a barrel over and empty it out.

sftex wrote:...If some Noses get loose, they get loose, but it won't be from ME or any supporters lack of making an effort to prevent that...

No. It's always someone else's fault. Like the consequences of a pillow fight: he who brought and made available the down pillows is creating a "foreseeable consequence". Like the seed bombs and the floating candle lanterns.

FYI, and because I think it's germane to this discussion: After listening to a lot of people's concerns about MOOP, and thinking seriously through different MOOP-disaster scenarios and ways to try and prevent them (or at least make them less likely), I decided that seed bombs would be an inappropriate gift for BM precisely because of the foreseeable yet unintended consequences of non-native seeds being dispersed in a fragile ecosystem. This is not because I don't think seed bombs are awesome when used properly -- I do! In fact, I think they have a greater potential impact than disposable red noses -- but because I recognize their potential for harm if used or disposed of improperly, and because I accept that no matter how hard I try, I can't control what will ultimately become of them.

Now, I recognize that seeds may have a greater inherent risk than balls of foam, as they are capable of introducing a new species to an ecosystem and altering it permanently, but what I had in mind was a small, focused distribution to recipients I had gotten to know and felt were trustworthy -- not an unsupervised "help yourself, one for every burner" scenario like that being proposed here. Even with such precautions, I realized it wasn't worth the risk of bringing seeds to the playa, and I relented. By the way, I say seeds may have a greater inherent risk, not that they do, because I don't know what all the risks of the foam noses are. Do they look enough like fruit or berries that fish, birds, or other animals might swallow them? Do they offgas or leach chemicals into water? I don't know, but you should.

Sftex, I have no doubt of your passion and sincere belief in the potential of the red nose as a gift to the world, but I think that passion might be clouding your judgment a bit. Just... think. Try to imagine the end consequences if things go wrong. Think of dead birds being found with their bellies full of these, or of BM losing its land-use license due to 1000 red noses being recovered from a nearby waterway. If one of these things happened, would you still think bringing all these noses to the playa was the right decision?

Last edited by catinthefunnyhat on Fri May 04, 2012 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

If you want drama to stop following you everywhere, try letting go of the leash.

catinthefunnyhat wrote:... Sftex, I have no doubt of your passion and sincere belief in the potential of the red nose as a gift to the world, but I think that passion might be clouding your judgment a bit. Just... think. Try to imagine the ultimate consequences if things go wrong. Think of dead birds being found with their bellies full of these, or of BM losing its land-use license due to 1000 red noses being recovered from a nearby waterway. If one of these things happened, would you still think bringing all these noses to the playa was the right decision?

But, it might get him the media attention he says he's after. Just not the kind of attention he's after nor for the reasons he anticipated...

And, from all I've seen presented, the "magic" in this appears to not be receiving a nose, but from the interaction with Sftex gifting you with a nose. Not the same thing as grabbing a nose out of a barrel.

Odd. No bears to watch in the dump. Oh well, lets go across the road & pick blueberries..... but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

The barrels will become trash cans. Almost a guarantee. We put boxes of newspapers in centercamp with a "Free! Take One!" sign on them. We go back, the papers are half gone, there's garbage in the box on top of the other papers. We have a closed newspaper rack in front of our camp. We check it in the morning- yep, garbage. (No puke yet, thank god).

Any container that's in plain site is a magnet for people to dump shit they're tired of carrying.

From a personal perspective, I really don't understand why an interaction with 100 or so people who actually seem to want the noses isn't enough. This "gift" seems more about the giver than the recipient, which just reminds me of nouveau riche people at a wedding who make sure their gift gets seen more than anyone elses.