You might remember that the Vatican’s quasi-official magazine La Civilta Cattolica embarrassed itself a few weeks back. It published a nasty, ignorant attack on America. And on conservative Protestants. Oh yes, and on pro-lifers, free marketers, and the vast majority of faithful U.S. Catholics who voted for Donald Trump. The piece read like something cooked up over the second bong at a Soros-sponsored non-profit. I answered it here at The Stream with the scorn it deserved.

Matthew Schmitz dug a little deeper over at the Catholic Herald (U.K.). His analysis is fascinating, but it reveals a few blind spots of his own. (I’ll get to those later.)

I was grateful to learn from Schmitz that the lead author of the cringe-worthy attack, Rev. Antonio Spadaro, did scholarly work on Flannery O’Connor. She’s a wonderful author. I’ve written academic papers on her, too. But if her stories formed the basis of Spadaro’s understanding of America. … That’s like grounding a comprehension of Italy on the movies of Fellini. Or better yet, the novels of Gabriele D’Annunzio.

America: More Violent, More Religious Than Europe

Schmitz notes that O’Connor offers a useful window, nevertheless, into the differences between Western Europe and America. Those differences include a comfort with violence, an acceptance of risk, a positive birth rate, and yes, an ongoing interest in religion. Schmitz writes:

Americans are indeed more indulgent of both public religion and public violence than are their European counterparts. From prayer on the 50-yard line to stand-your-ground laws, from the First Amendment to the Second, Americans never seem to walk far from heaven or hell.

Spadaro probably learned this from the writer and Catholic apologist Flannery O’Connor, on whom he wrote his thesis, but the man who has thought most deeply about Europe’s and America’s differing approaches to religion and violence is the French political scientist Pierre Manent. “For Europeans the abolition of the death penalty constitutes the most eloquent expression, the one dearest to their hearts, of their identity and their distinctive values,” he writes. “Europeans find the American retention of capital punishment almost incomprehensible.”

It is no coincidence that America is more comfortable with both religion and violence – in some strange way, the two go hand in hand.

Actually, there is nothing strange whatsoever about that fact. That’s something Schmitz seems to miss. And I think I know why. You see, while he’s an orthodox and in some ways even traditionalist Catholic, Schmitz is also quite publicly a socialist. Joe Carter of the Acton Institute recently complained about the rising tide of socialism at the once-free market First Things magazine, where Schmitz is an editor.

Socialism Hides the Fall of Man

Religion, violence, fertility, and the free market all go together. Socialism doesn’t just suppress one of those things, but all of them inextricably and at the same time. That’s why most of the nations in the European Union simultaneously:

Cushion people from economic risk through cradle-to-grave government programs

Suppress patriotism and flood their citizens with foreigners

Forbid capital punishment

Marginalize religion, and

Produce fewer babies than corpses every year.

Why do these things move together, most of the time? The answer is not economic or political, but religious. Faith answers many needs in the human heart. But its primal function is this: It’s an answer to the obvious fallenness of the world. To natural evils, like death. And scarcity. And suffering. And violence. Our Christian faith does better than pagan creeds at diagnosing the deep, causal connections among these things. It doesn’t sugarcoat the ugly truth: that death, scarcity, conflict, and suffering all came into the human world because of sin. We didn’t suffer from any of that in Eden. If our forebears hadn’t sinned, we wouldn’t still struggle with them now.

The Big Heresy: We Don’t Need Redemption

I wrote back in 2009 that most of heresies abroad in the world, and many of our personal sins, come out of one impulse. It’s the urge to sneak back into Eden. To reject the fallen/redeemed world that we learn about in the Old and New Testaments, in favor of some earthly utopia. Some world where sin doesn’t really exist — just “sickness.” Where every sharp edge and pointy corner is filed down. Where none of our actions have any really tragic consequences. Where violent emotions and actions are relegated to the dead past of our forgotten ancestors. A world of rubber bullets, guaranteed incomes, and purely decorative churches. A world that’s not really fallen, so it doesn’t need redemption. Just a little tidying up.

Under socialism, you never confront an economic crisis that might drive you to your knees in desperate prayer for help. You toddle on down to the local welfare office and file a claim for your entitlement. No criminal is really evil, so you can’t go and hang them. They simply need rehabilitation.

In such a world, you never confront an economic crisis that might drive you to your knees in desperate prayer for help. You toddle on down to the local welfare office and file a claim for your entitlement. No criminal is really evil, so you can’t go and hang them. They simply need rehabilitation — such as the Swedes are offering dozens of ISIS fighters, who came back and filed for welfare benefits. No need to bear children who will someday look after you when you’re old, sick and feeble. The state will take care of that, and when you are too far gone it will euthanize you like a senile Persian cat. You trade the stink of diapers for the promise of the needle … .

By the Sweat of Your Brow

Isn’t that just the worldly utopia that the Vatican authors crave? Isn’t it the imaginary world inhabited by the oligarchs who run the European Union via secret, appointed committees?

It’s also the world that fills the fantasies of young Christians who identify as socialists. For instance, the Tradinista Collective, which Matthew Schmitz defended in First Things. Its authors’ central demand (in their uproarious “Manifesto”) was this one: That people be able to live comfortably without working. Those grumpy, churchy Millennials complained:

The foundational relation of capitalist society is between those who are compelled to sell their labor-power on pain of destitution and those who, by their ownership of capital, are enabled to exploit the former.

That’s just a pretentious, Marxian way of saying: “By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Gen. 3:19) Or: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” (2 Thessal. 3:10)

Societies that follow the socialist fantasy and sever the bond between hard work and financial success cut a lot of other ties at the same time. They snip the bonds between parents and children, our ancestors and our descendants, and between God and man. Socialism doesn’t just destroy the economy. It dissolves the nation and empties the cradle. It takes the place of God as the omnicompetent, benevolent refuge in our hour of need. It is the church of the Golden Calf.

So multiple popes have warned us. I wish that Matthew Schmitz — and the current pope — would go back and read them.

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Dean Bruckner

The Papal Octopus group and other tradinistas, exemplified by Matthew Schmidt (Literary Editor at First Things) will, sooner or later, meekly follow the culture into sexual anarchy, abortion and euthanasia. Marxism is idolatry, and if you’re an idol worshipper, that’s what you do.

Dean Bruckner

I tried to read the Tradinista manifesto but the server was down. I guess they were relying on other people’s money to pay the bill, and it ran out.

Zmirak

Ha! I will find an alternative link and fix, thanks!

Dean Bruckner

I can’t find it from Google. Apparently the server is down or the website has expired. In either case, it ran out of gas, and no coincidence, I say.

Matt

Having published their manifesto, they promptly disappeared. Their Twitter feed has been inactive for nearly a year. Did the work get too hard, young socialists? Did the dishes refuse to do themselves again? Did you think people with real jobs and responsibilities would pick up the slack for you? Keep dreaming about your utopia that you wouldn’t lift a finger to realize. Better that than your Marxist brethren who brought about their utopias one trigger pull at a time.

Dean Bruckner

Well said, sir! I trust “you” in your comment means the tradinistas, not me.

Matt

Most assuredly. Although it feels like I’m speaking to an empty room, as the tradintistas have seemingly disappeared without a trace.

Dean Bruckner

I guess the latest Call of Duty is more of interest these days in Mom & Dad’s basement, or in the off-campus gourmet coffee shop.

James

This article unintentionally does an excellent job of making the case that Marx was right and religion is the Opiate of the Masses. Unlike Marx, the author thinks this is a good thing.

Capitalism needs religion and religion needs capitalism. Prayers are cheap, social policy is expensive. Who needs bread on Earth when you’ve got Pie in the Sky when you die? Besides, the masses deserve it because of Adam, so there’s no sense in trying to change it.

This view of religion fits the Marxist stereotype perfectly.

Bryan

I think you missed the part where Marxism eliminates religion but then becomes The Religion. Men can’t completely get rid of religion because Man needs something to worship, be it God, Buddha, money, or himself. So in the Marxist State, the government becomes the religion for the people to worship.
Marxism says we can make a better world together because we’re really not that bad. It tries to regulate and legislate morals in a society but usually crushes most of the people under it’s weight. Christianity says you really are bad but God has provided the only way to be righteous. Then because you are considered righteous before God, go and sin no more.
I think you mistakenly correlate capitalism and religion. Religion doesn’t need capitalism. Christianity and many other religions can be lived out regardless of the economic systems in place in the rest of society. However, Christianity is foundational to the Free-Market Economic system when both are functioning correctly. So Capitalism needs a Christian moral system in place to balance Man’s innate selfishness, greed, lust,etc.

Zmirak

I would say that religion DOES need freedom, including economic freedom. Socialism can suffocate faith for the masses by masquerading as God. It does such a BAD job of meeting people’s earthly needs (much less their need for meaning) that it never lasts. But it can survive long enough to destroy a civilization. That’s what happened in much of Europe. It may be too late. It could happen here.

James

Marxists realized that their plans don’t work and that the masses needed an opiate. Not surprising that they tried to become a substitute religion.

Shaquille Harvey

Even though socialism/communism is atheistic at root.

pearl87 ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

Though Christianity may not “need” capitalism (a word Marx coined as an invective against the free market), a society founded on true Christian principles cannot be socialist.

Zmirak

Ha! Socialism doesn’t provide bread on this earth, either. It can steal bread for a while and redistribute it while holding circuses, but soon enough you run out of other people’s money and other people’s kids. Then the Sharia authorities who take over the empty cities will find all the socialists and hang them. That’s cold comfort, but it’s something.

James

What’s your solution, manna from heaven?

I’m no socialist, but I have little patience for the pie in the sky types. Prayer and $0.99 will buy you a loaf of bread.

Zmirak

Solution to WHAT? To a billion people escaping desperate poverty in my lifetime thanks to globalism and markets? To the likely disappearance of absolute poverty before I die? My solution to scarcity is free cooperation among people, which happens via the price system and markets.

James

Well, that certainly didn’t come across in your article.

I read a lot about the fallen nature of man, the curse of Adam, and the dangers of “trying to sneak back into Eden”, but very little about free markets.

Charles Burge

You should read How the West Won: The Neglected Story of the Triumph of Modernity by Rodney Stark. In it, Mr. Stark shows how Western civilization, under-girded by a solidly Christian world view, has done a far better job of bolstering human flourishing and securing human dignity than any other system on Earth. Christianity is the only world view that can accomplish those things, because it is the only world view that correctly understands the true nature of the human condition.

poapratensis

I think it has a lot more to do with the relative natural abundance of resources enjoyed in North America. Combine that with awareness of said resources and you get flourishing, at least till it’s all used up.

Charles Burge

I can only assume you haven’t actually read the book I mentioned, because your statement makes no sense whatsoever. The book is mostly about Europe.

poapratensis

I didn’t read the book. Perhaps I should refrain from hasty smartphone posts. I was responding to James who was really responding the John: “Prayer and 99 cents will buy a loaf a bread.” The joke being that the 99 cents is what really matters, and the prayer not so much. Pretty much how things work in America, and have, since its founding!

You posted about a book that from title and the description seemed like an answer to the Prayer and 99 cents comment that essentially amounted to something that does not follow. Yes, I agree that Christendom is responsible for more human flourishing than what has ever been seen. But I do not think that the USA is an example of Christendom, or that Capitalism is an expression of Christian theology, and I certainly don’t think prayer is going to buy anybody’s bread (meet anybody’s immediate need). Do you?

“But when the demands of necessity and propriety have been met, it is a duty to give to the poor out of that which remains.” – Leo XIII in Rerum Novarum. Could such an expression be any more opposed to doctrinaire capitalism? A doctrinaire capitalist would find such a sentiment horrifying, since to such a person after the demands of necessity and propriety have been met, it would be a duty to INVEST that which remains, as that is what would produce the greatest amount of wealth. A true capitalist would claim this the moral position since it would produce the “greatest benefit.”

David Davies

Annnnd, the very best thing we can give the poor: Jobs. Income. Self esteem resulting from work.

Not handouts.

pearl87 ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

The foundation for the American success story was Christendom, as it evolved throughout Europe over 16 centuries. Even before America, European culture had mapped out fundamental human rights recognized nowhere else in the world.

poapratensis

Please explain. Because the USA is outside the historical territory of Christendom, was constituted politically OPPOSITE to a Christian monarchy, and makes absolutely no mention whatsoever of authority deriving from God, rather, from “WE, THE PEOPLE.” Its constitution grants the right to practice any religion or no religion. The USA is the FREEMASONIC success story, if anything.

I do happen to think the USA has benefited enormously from the residual morality of Christianity, which kept most people living right and on the straight and narrow and out of trouble, but now that has been eroded nearly to the point of irrelevance in the last 50 or so years since the liberals realized that it would be much easier to overthrow Christian morality than it would be to overthrow Capitalist oligarchy.

Since Capitalism is essentially materialistic, it could provide the “economic platform” for the revolution about as easily as Communism could, just in a different way. I tell you sir, I see apparel on young women every day that would have made Trostsky blush! And it was no doubt purchased in a “free” market with “earned” money and produced by sweatshop workers who no doubt can “bargain” for “competitive” wages.

VisPacem

Most of those I know who truly believe that Jesus is the Christ (or that YHWH is truly G_D) commonsensically live by the axiom that one should pray intensely, since everything depends on the Creator, but act and work with equal intensity since the hands of Providence are at the ends of one’s own arms.

And to best reveal the fruits of Providence one must maintain conditions for the maximal exercise of liberty and virtue. Encouraging both leads to an increase of generosity in assisting others in true need.

As for confirming the dignity of each individual person nothing has better secured such in history than the Incarnation of Christ and drawing out what this implies.

M. Ewbank

Christine Wright

I’m not Catholic I’m protestant, (as I’m gathering this is actually a Catholic newsletter so I thought I should clarify) but honestly, it’s not pie in the sky anything when it’s real. I was a Muslim who had given up “religion”, so horrified I was by Islam that I ended up walking away, didn’t believe in any man’s religion, and was agnostic. Jesus came to me in a dream one night, explained to me salvation, told me the Bible was the word of God, and that night I was saved, that night I believed beyond any shadow of doubt. That for me was just the beginning… But I believe God, heaven, Hell etc is as real as either you or I. I now know the truth.

None of that means our life here will be easy, none of it means we don’t work, none of us are promised a life without any suffering here on earth, for me quite the opposite, I later had a vision of my own death – the price of my faith. But God is with us, walking beside us every step of the way. When we are hungry He is there, our needs are met by Him who created us, but we often confuse matters when we think from our baser selves. Life on earth is fleeting, we will all die. It’s what we do while we are alive that matters. That is what Christianity is. I walk every day in heaven, even while here on earth, even through pain, and suffering, even in death – because I have Him beside me, and I know where I will go after I die.

We work for our food, because that is what we do. We pray, because that is what we love, to be near to Him. And all the while, we know that we wouldn’t be able to work if not for His Hand upon us. If He gives another more, it’s because He knows more than I. I am where I am how I am for His purpose. All things are in His sovereign hand.. But it doesn’t mean I don’t do my part. Every relationship is a two way street.

Paul

John you teased me by including guns in the title but barely gave the topic a mention in the article. I know you have said before that the second amendment isn’t your area of expertise, but that’s feeling a bit like a cop out at this point. A full understanding of why a personal right to arms plus citizen militias was vitally important to the US founders will add new layers to your understanding of liberty. You are lacking without it and this article shows it. Guns was a necessary inclusion but you simply equated arms with criminal violence which completely misses the point.

Zmirak

That would have made the article too long. But here’s a piece I helped with that expresses my views and makes the case you’re looking for. I quoted much of it in my recent “Politically Incorrect Guide to Catholicism,” which vindicates 2nd Amendment rights at length. Check out “Gun rights: Human rights guaranteed by natural law” by Jason Scott Jones at Legatus. I will add the link in to the story.

Paul

Thanks for the link John. If you’re in agreement with Jason then I will ask what part of ‘shall not be infringed’ is so hard to understand?

Jason says: “Therefore, the state has good reason to regulate the level of lethal force available to private citizens, to make sure that it is proportional to the threats they may face.”

Then later he says: “On top of our right to defend ourselves against the daily threat of lawless people, we also have a right to resist the lawless actions of government.”

Using Jason’s own logic, when the threat we may face is from the state then the level of lethal force that should be available to private citizens should be proportional to the threat we face from the state.

That’s why the 2A says ‘shall not be infringed’ but even most conservatives get an F when it comes to the topic. Sad.

Zmirak

Regulate the level, as in not allowing howitzers and tactical nuclear weapons. That’s what he meant–I know him. Do you disagree?

Paul

How would you suggest defending from the govt who has such tools at their disposal?

Zmirak

I think you misunderstood. The article tried to show what BARE MINIMUM gun rights are dictated by natural law, which applies to every nation–even those without any 2nd Amendment style protection. It wasn’t an argument about the proper reading of our nation’s particular constitutional protections. Ok?

Paul

That’s fair though both Jason and you discuss arms in the US and in doing so the Constitution comes into the mix. Case in point your article mentioned both guns and the second amendment as you should because here in the US the two go hand in hand. There’s not many places in the world where the right to keep and bear arms is enumerated in the national Constitution, most everywhere else it is a govt controlled privilege. There’s a reason the big govt types want to infringe on that right, the same reason the founders said it shall not be infringed. The Stream avoids the topic at its own peril for the 2A is a great safeguard of liberty that has been greatly eroded.

Paul

Also as to disagreeing, Jason was using the example of trespassing children regarding regulating the level of lethal force available to private citizens so no I don’t think Jason was speaking about howitzers

David Davies

No way could I support the cost of ammunition for a howitzer.

BTP

I wonder if this path over at FT is a desperate attempt to avoid the implication of the last thirty years of their writing on cultural matters. In the contemporary vernacular: that feeling when you realize you were actually right all along when you were ringing the alarm about the culture, but you are too much of a sissy to want to use the only tools that will fix it now.

So something like:

– The destruction of the family is a grim fact (Yes! We warned you!)
– Along with that comes the failure of the culture (See!)
– Which involves an indifference to sustaining the elements of that culture (Exactly!)
– And a replacement of the people who made the culture (Oh, well…)
– Meaning the only way to fix things is to, first, stop the replacement of those people (No, that’s not it)
– And, second, to smash those institutions responsible for cultural decay (Smash? We can’t condone…)
– And smashing means sledgehammers, which are crude instruments (That’s not who we are!)
– etc

It’s not logical, but it is understandable. Everyone knows people who, after a diagnosis of cancer, blanche at the radical therapies that are required to fix it and turn toward some holistic fantasy about cures through positive feelings or whatever. Same thing here.

pearl87 ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

You had me until the chemo cancer treatment analogy. Poor choice.

BTP

Gangrenous limb might work better as an example.

Richard W Comerford

A very nice article. Thank you.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

Paul

John, I want to thank you for engaging in discussion with your readers, it is much appreciated.

Christine Wright

Very nice article, I very much enjoyed it. God bless you and keep you.

Boris

You Christian men who are obsessed with your guns and your tiny hands they’ll barely fit in are all a bunch of sissy boys.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Thank you for your concern regarding the tiny hands of Christian men.

Fear not! There is a flood of new small guns on the market that fit quite easily into tiny, male, Christian hands. These guns are single stack, striker fired 9 mm pistols. The 9 mm round is a man killer. But the pistol is so small it can easily be carried in a pocket. (However many experts recommend a pocket holster.) Indeed the pistol is so small that a tiny handed male Christian could easily carry two such weapons instead of a single pistol with a spare magazine. No reload in teh heat of battle!!!

Is not technological progress wonderful!

Thank you again for your concern.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

Boris

States with higher gun ownership rates have higher gun murder rates. For every time a gun is used in self-defense in a home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home. A study in Philadelphia found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. The number of mass shootings stopped by armed civilians in the past 33 years is 0. Men who think they need handguns or assault rifles are usually not as virile as the rest of us, not as handy with the dames, not as confident in public and so the guns make up for this sort of tiny hands syndrome. Unfortunately there’s a lot of anger and resentment. Drivers who carry guns are 44 percent more likely than unarmed drivers to make obscene gestures at other motorists, and 77 percent more likely to follow them aggressively. These punks would not behave this way if they were not armed. Would you?

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Again; thank you for your concern regarding the tiny hands of Christian men.

Every hear the FBI releases its crime stats. Every hear about 10 K to 12 K people in the USA are murdered by the use of a firearm. However the murderers by gun are overwhelmingly located in large cities which have been under Democrat rule for 50 to 100 years. (See, among others, Chicago). The murderers are again overwhelmingly young males, un-Churched, fatherless, and products of government schools and the welfare State. The murders by gun are also overwhelmingly gang and drug related.

Clearly if we outlawed the Democrat Party gun murders would all but disappear.

Your concern for our tiny hands is appreciated.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squrel.

Boris

If we outlawed stupidity you would be where you belong. In jail.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Again; thank you for your concern regarding the tiny hands of Christian men.

I hereby note that on these plantations the plantation owners outlaw the possession of guns except for themselves and their cronies. (See Robert De Niro who legally owns firearms in the Democrat Plantation of New York City.)

I also note that the same folks that oppose gun ownership for everyone but themselves also are fanatical advocates of artificial, contraception, eugenics, abortion, divorce, sodomy, pornography, euthanasia and globalism.

Funny that.

Again your concern for our tiny, male, Christian hands is very much appreciated.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Do you advocate for sexual abstinence or support financial incentives to have children or the curtailment of benefits to welfare mothers? Because those are forms of eugenics. Abortion and divorce rates are twice as high as the national average in the Bible Belt of America. Atheist women don’t have unwanted pregnancies because they use contraception. You believe they should not have that right, right? 70 percent of Christian males and 35 percent of Christian females report that they have a porn addiction problem. You Christians send missionaries all over the world spreading the lies of Christianity everywhere attempting to get everyone on the planet to believe the exact same dogmas and doctrines. Yet somehow that is not globalism when you do it. Or perhaps you accept the Bible’s claim that the earth is flat and that is what you mean by globalism. You’re spreading the gospel to the four corners of the flat earth, right? Before the Roe decision about 10,000 American women died every year from botched abortions. In the nations where abortions are still illegal about 186 women die every day from botched abortions. Can you explain to me why you are against this procedure? Or why your personal ideology is more important than public safety?

I advocate for what JP II called a “civilization of love”. Where, among other things, a woman would be free to marry – for life. She would be free to have children – and raise them. Her husband would be able, no matter what his employment, to support them with dignity in a frugal life style. See Pope Leo X iii Encyclical “Rerum Novorum” (of new things).

You wrote in part: “Before the Roe decision about 10,000 American women died every year from botched abortions.”

Please. The federal Centers for Disease Control reported that 39 women died due to illegal abortion the year before Roe v Wade.

.Now, according to Planned Parenthood, we have 3- to 4 thousand abortions a day – over half babies of color. (60-million murdered babies and counting) Jesse Jackson, before he became famous, called abortion the genocide of black America. Abortion mills, some 80% to 90%, are not located in the “Bible Belt” as you seem to claim but on the Democrat Plantations like LA, NYC and DC. Where they can murder babies of color.

Funny that

Jesse Jackson was right.

Again your concern for our tiny, male, Christian hands is very much appreciated.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Women should also be free to not marry and not have children. Women should not have parenthood forced on them by the government. Women are not government owned incubators. I know you believe they are but much like the rest of the garbage you believe it ain’t so. Rights do not come from any deity no matter what the slave-owning war profiteers who founded this nation said in their angry letter to a benevolent king. Rights come from the state. They always have and they always will. Get over it.

And on the Democrat Plantations marriage, family and fatherhood are, for the poor, almost unknown. However contraception, abortion and pornography are are glorified on the Democrat Plantations. Resulting in gun violence on the gun free Democrat Plantations.

Such are the “rights” that come from the State.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Poor people are more likely to be religious than the rest of us. In their churches they are told their reward is in heaven and that they should be thankful for the life they’ve been given. Perhaps if poor people stopped believing that there would be some kind of reward in the afterlife, they might start working hard for that reward here and now. Contraception prevents unwanted pregnancy which of course prevents abortions. Just because you Christians cannot really be intimate because of the guilt you feel enjoying anything natural doesn’t give you the right to rain on other people’s parades. I won’t be converting. Jesus Christ and his magic merry men never existed.

You posted in part: “Poor people are more likely to be religious than the rest of us. ”

“Us”? I and and my people were those poor. We were poor because the State made us poor. But we were happy because the Church taught us that God loved us and that we should love one another. Now the State has abolished love too.

You also posted in part: “Perhaps if poor people stopped believing that there would be some kind of reward in the afterlife, they might start working hard for that reward here and now”

We worked very, very hard. “Outdoor work” in those days. But the State stole the fruit of our labors.

and in part: “Contraception prevents unwanted pregnancy”

Please. If contraception prevents unwanted pregnancies then why are there 3-4 thousand abortions a day in the USA?

And in part: “Just because you Christians cannot really be intimate because of the guilt you feel enjoying?

Again, please!!! If we could not be intimate then why were there so many families with 10 to 20 children? Immaculate conceptions all?

and in part: “Jesus Christ and his magic merry men never existed.”

And you know this how?

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

“Jesus Christ and his magic merry men never existed.”
“And you know this how?

Because the Bible says Jesus’ fame spread throughout the land and that is not true. No one who was alive during the first part of the first century wrote a word about Jesus Christ. And what’s even more troubling for you Bible thumpers is that none of the supposed apostles are mentioned by any historians either. No mention of Paul preaching from Mars Hill or anywhere else. No mentions of Peter bringing new doctrine to Rome. These are men who were supposedly commanded to make themselves known to the world. Never was there a more epic fail if these men existed. But they did not. Much like the 12 tribes of Israel the disciples represent the constellations in this New Age religion. The fish sign is the dead giveaway that Christianity is a New
Age religion based on astrology and a solar deity. How come every picture of Jesus for the first thousand years of Christian fascism shows him with a solar disc on his head just like all the other solar god men? How come Pope Leo had to issue an edict in the 5th Century telling the Christians to stop worshiping the sun? No one knows less about the history of Christian fascism than you Christians. A bunch of sun worshipers and don’t even know it. Thanks for the laughs.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Thank you for your reply. You wrote in part: “No one who was alive during the first part of the first century wrote a word about Jesus Christ”

Where do you get such foolishness?

Josephus Flavius – 1st Century AD. “Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works; a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. ”

And of course there were the inspired Gospel writers. And there were so many non-inspired religious writers who wrote about Jesus Christ that the Church had a hard time sorting out who was who tin order o form the Canon of the Bible.

And of course there was teh tremendous surge in coverts throughout the Empire in the 1st Century AD.

You know nothing about the Faith.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

FYI Josephus was not alive when Jesus Christ supposedly lived. That clearly demonstrates the sheer desperation of your position. Even conservative Christian scholars admit those golden paragraphs you tried to foist on me are forgeries done by church propagandist and admitted liar Eusebius. Look it up. Origin quoted extensively from the works of Josephus and he never mentioned those golden paragraphs. That’s because they didn’t exist until Eusebius put them there. Even if there were authentic they’d still be just hearsay and not even first or second hand hearsay. And about 6 decades too late. No one accepts hearsay as evidence except you Bible thumpers because hearsay is all you’ve got. Not a shred of evidence that anything in the text of the Bible even might be or could be true. You’ve never read Josephus or you wouldn’t try to foist his nonsense on me in the first place. Josephus claimed to have seen a 10 foot tall giant cast out demons. Do you believe that? I don’t. Josephus insisted Hercules was a real person a god man. Do you believe that? I don’t. And please don’t tell me about Tacitus. That forgery was discovered in the 15th Century by guess who. The Church. Imagine that, the world’s largest fabrication factory. Forget Pliny and Suetonius. They wrote in the 2nd Century. The authors of Matthew and Luke plagiarized Mark’s Gospel and then just added their own version of the Christian message. And they did this sometime between 170 and 190 CE because that is the first time anything about the gospels is mentioned by anyone. Look it up. Why do we unbelievers always have to educate you Christians about your own fairy book?

Richard W Comerford

Mr Boris:

Thank you for your reply. You posted in part: “FYI Josephus was not alive when Jesus Christ supposedly lived.”

Please. You first posted: “”No one who was alive during the first part of the first century wrote a word about Jesus Christ”

Now you want someone who was alive when Christ was alive?

Kindly make up your mind.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Convert? Christianity – The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree… yeah, makes perfect sense.

Richard W Comerford

Mr Boris:

Thank you for your reply.

“Life. is short. Death is certain. And the life to come will last forever.” – John Cardinal Newman

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

“There is obviously an important difference between an establishment [i.e., science] that is open… and one that regards the questioning of its credentials as due to wickedness of heart, such as Cardinal Newman attributed to those who questioned the infallibility of the Bible. Rational science treats its credit notes as always redeemable on demand, while non-rational authoritarianism regards the demand for the redemption of its paper as a disloyal lack of faith.” Morris R. Cohen (1880-1947)

Richard W Comerford

Mr Boris:

Thank you for your reply.

Please. Mr. Cohen does not know what he is talking about. Catholics do not speak of the infallibility of the Bible. They do speak of Papal infallibility – an entirely different subject.

And you and Mr. Cohen are inventing problems where none exist.

The rule of thumb from the Galileo case: “The Bible does not tell us how the heavens go; but how to go to heaven.”

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Don’t even try that crapola. You believe the Bible is infallible. Any person of sense reading the first sentence of the Bible knows it’s a bunch of nonsense. Yeah the earth created before the sun and vegetation on the planet before the sun was created! ROFL! And people eating only veggies and meat later when we know the exact opposite is true. Not only is the Bible wrong about EVERYTHING it could not possibly be MORE wrong than it is. The dumbest collection of religious nonsense ever compiled. Or I should say piled. One stinking pile. And you love it! Man life is great!

This Boris is just another mean and vicious religious zelot that loves to opress others with these religious beliefs. And they ARE just beliefs. Like most zelots, he does not live according to his beliefs, but he readily uses them as an excuse to persecute others.

Mike Petrik

Boris, say what you really mean. “In gulag.”

Boris

Most Russians didn’t die in gulags. They starved to death because Joseph Stalin rejected evolution as a bourgeois Western philosophy and instead adopted a form of pseudo scientific biology called Lysenkoism. Look it up. This is what caused Stalin to believe they could grow wheat on the frozen tundra. The farmers knew better but 20 million people starved to death because of the Soviet rejection of science. This kind of foolish rejection of science is going on in the United States right now and it’s going to cause a tragedy even worse than what happened in Russia. When it’s 200 degrees in New York let me know how that prayer thing is working for you.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:
Re: Trofim Lysenko

Please.

Trofim Lysenko did not come to power until after the deliberate mass starvation plans of the Soviet Union destroyed the peasantry in general and the Kulaks in particular. (and of course the Soviet Union disarmed the peasants before it starved them to death.)

Trofim Lysenko was actually born into a peasant family and grew up working as a farmer (unlike many of his critics). His methods, however nutty, brought marginal success.

BTW that “Prayer thing” seems to be working fine. After three generations of militant atheism the Russians are now opening or reopening a Christian Church at a rate of three a day.

Who would have thought?

Your concern for our tiny, male, Christian hands is appreciated.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel.

Boris

A God who already knows the future is immune to being petitioned by prayer. I suppose an unthinking person such as you has never thought of that. I’m not against gun ownership. I grew up in and around Washington D.C. when it was the murder capitol of the world. My brother is a gun collector. I do not believe people need hand guns or assault rifles to protect themselves. The Bible tells you to turn the other cheek. If somebody takes your stuff it’s most likely insured for more than it is worth anyway. And the cops will most likely catch the perp and you’ll get your satisfaction when they parade him in front of you in an orange jump suit. You don’t need a gun and you only have one to keep your wife from cheating on you because of your small extremities that don’t work quite as well as the rest of us. Your dirty little secret is out, sissy boy. Now squeal for me. Louder boy.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Thank you for your kind reply.

The Democrat plantation of Washington D. C. is indeed known for its gun violence. Interestingly guns are outlawed except for the Democrat elite.

Funny that.

Luke 22:36: “Whoever has none, must sell his cloak, and buy a sword.” You atheists simply do not know the Holy Bible. Self defense, under certain circumstances, is not only a right; but can be an obligation.

However you do seem to have an obsession with the ” small extremities” of male Christian.

Luke 6:30 and Matt 5:40 have nothing to do with Luke 22:36. It’s a different teaching about a different situation and you would know that if you had actually read the book before you started thumping it. And being afraid of it. Every study that has been done on the subject has shown conclusively that on average atheists know the text of the Bible better than their believing counterparts. We realize that historical narratives do not contain dialog, people all speaking to each other in complete sentences. Historical narratives are not filled with tales of magic and magical beings. These are the hallmarks of fiction. When we hold the Bible up to common standard literary criticism we use for every other form of literature the Bible flunks every test for historicity there is and passes all the tests for fiction with flying colors. Try expanding your smallest extremity which right now is your brain. The Passover event described in the Bible is a complete fiction. That fact alone debunks all three of the best known monotheistic religions, especially yours.

Sorry. The verses in question have everything to do with one another. We have an obligation to love our neighbor to include defending an innocent from an unjust aggressor.

Kindly cite a single “study” that shows : ” that on average atheists know the text of the Bible better than their believing counterparts.

And how do you know that the “Passover event described in the Bible is a complete fiction? Were you there?

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Push

This Boris feller and his oft quoted (laughable) references to “studies” is quite the study. I’m not all that impressed with his “tiny” intellect either. But that’s just me…maybe his intellectual reservoir is actually as vast as Siberia and me being the simple Christian male that I am I just can’t see the taiga for the trees.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Push:

Mr. Boris strikes me as a good Marxist. Good Marxists, like good Muslims believe, usually believe I think, that they not only have a right but a duty to lie in order to advance the cause.

The oft cited Marxist claim that 10,000 women died of botched abortions prior to Roe V wade not only has no basis in fact; but is easily refuted in real, public studies by the likes of the CDC which put the aforementioned number at 39 the year prior to Roe.

Pray for Mr. Boris and all his ilk, Marxist or Muslim; who lie to advance tyranny, will convert to Christ.

God bless.

Richard W Comerford

Push

Indeed. “A lie told often enough becomes the truth” is a noted Marxist axiom. It’s pretty much the first of the Marxist Ten Commandments.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Push:

Thank you for your reply.

I am afraid I must agree with you. Good Marxists, like good Muslims, seem to believe that they not only have a right but a duty to lie for the cause.

May God convert them all.

God bless.

Richard W Comerford

Boris

“A lie told often enough becomes the truth” is a noted Marxist axiom.

If you’d read Marx you’d know he was talking about Christianity. Why don’t you read the rest of what Marx said about Christianity? It’s brutal and I doubt your faith is strong enough to take the hit.

David Davies

Why? Marx was wrong about economics, so why would we think he was not also wrong about Christianity? I mean, he poisoned his own well…….

Boris

Marx was certainly not wrong about capitalism. Why don’t you read what Marx wrote about Christianity? You’re afraid to and we both know it. You have to keep that armor of God on. Right? Can’t let anything like a dose of common sense or a whiff of science penetrate your armor, your defenses against free inquiry and critical thinking. Read it anyway. There’s nothing to fear. You’re not flying off to the Christian magic happy land when you die and neither is anyone else.

David Davies

NOT wrong about capitalism? Boris, that’s like saying Lysenko was not wrong about genetics. It’s observably deranged. And once a writer has poisoned his own well with obvious nonsense, why should I listen to anything else he has to say? I mean, come at me with the allegation that our ancestors believed that the Earth is flat and I will dismiss you. I know that our ancestors knew the Earth is a globe. The Greeks knew. The Hebrews knew. And every sailor who has ever seen an approaching ship rise masthead first over the horizon knew.
I doubt that you understand anything at all about free inquiry or science.

Boris

I know science and religion don’t mix. Science discovers stuff and religion just makes stuff up. First of all the Hebrews did not ‘know the Earth was a sphere they thought it was a flat circle the way the Christians at the Flat Earth Society describe it. At least those Christians are honest enough to admit what the Bible says about the shape of the Earth and brave enough to defend their beliefs. You are neither but then Christianity only appeals to the base human emotion of cowardice. Again you afraid to read what Marx said about Christianity. And it’s easy to say Marx was wrong about capitalism but since you’ve admittedly never read a word he wrote you wouldn’t know. So tell me what exactly was Marx wrong about pertaining to capitalism?

David Davies

Isaiah 40:22 refutes your argument, such as it is. Please reference the verse which describes the Earth as flat. And please don’t give me something about the ‘four corners’. That refers to directions, you know, like West and North? The same four cardinal directions we have on our compass cards. Surely you wouldn’t contend that the U.S. Navy believes the Earth is flat?
Marx? Labor theory of value. Obviously wrong. The work put into a product in no way determines it’s value. And that is just a start.
Another thing. It is obvious that capitalism as practiced in the U.S. and the West has raised the quality of life for us workers, while socialism as practiced by countries afflicted with Marx has not. The USSR, Cuba and Venezuela are the prime examples.

Boris

Isaiah 40:22 proves that the Hebrews believed the Earth was a flat circle. “He who sits enthroned above the circle of the Earth.” A circle is not a sphere and there is no up or down in the universe. The Navy doesn’t believe the earth is flat but about 10 million American Christians do. Check out the Flat Earth Society. These Christians are not afraid to admit what the Bible says about the shape of the Earth and they post all kinds of Bible verses to prove it. At least those Christians are honest enough to admit what the Bible says about the shape of the Earth and brave enough to try to defend it. You are neither honest or brave. But then Christianity only appeals to the base human emotion of cowardice. Christianity proves it has no compelling evidence for its claims by using threats to induce belief. You shouldn’t let other people frighten you with a bunch of old wive’s tales about what might happen to you after you die. Nothing happens.

David Davies

That should be ‘neither honest NOR brave’. Go back to school and learn to write.

Boris

You Christers nit pic when you get hammered in debates with atheists. Go away little man. Or tran whatever you are.

David Davies

That’s ‘pick’, not ‘pic’.

Boris

Religious people are less intelligent than atheists, according to analysis of scores of scientific studies stretching back over decades
Study found ‘a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity’ in 53 out of 63 studies

David Davies

A poetic expression which you misunderstand as a scientific statement. The Greeks during the same general time period also knew the Earth was a sphere. Eratosthenes calculated it’s diameter and came really close to an accurate measurement. Dante, a late medieval Catholic, depicts the Earth as a globe in his great poem.

You really should refrain from posting and shaming your education.

Boris

Stop it. It’s science when it seems accurate and it’s poetry when it’s nonsense. It was a six day creation until science proved it wasn’t. It’s science that informs religion and makes it change its claims. Religion never informs science. Science explains the unknown with the known. Christianity explains the known with the unknown. You can have it.

David Davies

No, the six days was always the foundation myth of the Hebrews. Really intelligent people who lived long after this story was put down in writing agreed that it is not a ‘scientific’ description. Read your Augustine.

And science is utterly unsuited to the task of answering the question ‘Why?’.

Boris

Only the religious mind wants to know why. The intelligent mind wants to know how. Why questions. Why are we here is what you mean and that is like asking why 5 equals 5. As far as anyone knows there is no purpose to the universe and there is no inherent meaning to life. This means that we humans are free to define our lives with whatever purposes and meanings we choose. Unfortunately you never figured this out and so you have let other people tell you what the purpose of the universe must be and what the meaning of your life must be. You live the life of a herd animal. Having said this we are here for a reason. To move heat. To bridge the heat of the sun and the cold of space. Look it up.

David Davies

You certainly seem to be worked up about things which you yourself say do not matter. Why is that? Or should I say, How can you feel that way?

Boris

What did I say didn’t matter? What bothers me is liars and fact deniers like you. So I get off cutting big mouthed blowhards down to size by exposing their lies. You’re a liar.
I saw you posted this on another thread. “Yes, we had it. So did the rest of the world. We [European powers informed by Christianity] got rid of it. No other group of people in human history ever did that before.”
This is about as many lies as you could squeeze in so few words. The Chinese were the first to abolish slavery. Next came England. If Christianity informed us about slavery how come it took 1800 years? What a crock and what a LIAR you are. The Christians didn’t give a rip about the slaves. They were afraid that Jebus was going to punish the United States for allowing slavery. This the only reason you’re against legalized abortions. The Christian abolitionists were just looking out for their own skin and we know this because as soon as the slaves were free the Christians segregated them and shoved them into ghettos. You Christians are the worst people this planet has ever seen.

David Davies

Boris said: “As far as anyone knows there is no purpose to the universe and there is no inherent meaning to life.”

But Boris cares enough about his meaningless existence to spend time sniping at me. Because it’s fun, right?

Boris

It figures something that simple would still go right over your head. Zoom. My life isn’t meaningless. Yours is though. I am free to give my life whatever meaning and purpose I want and can even change my mind mid-stream. You can’t do anything with your mind. It’s being controlled by the lies of your religion. Jesus Christ never even existed.

David Davies

“You Christians are the worst people this planet has ever seen.”

Even worse than muslims, eh? Worse than ‘godless commies’ who killed upwards of 100 million people in pursuit of their socialist paradise?

Boris

Wrong again. Weren’t you the guy who mentioned Tommy Lysenko? How do you think he got famous? This is an embarrassment for you Christians so you really should not bring it up anymore. Your face is about to get very red. Again. ROFL! Stalin rejected Evolution by Natural Selection as a bourgeoisie Western philosophy just like you do. So he adopted the whacked out ideas of Lysenko which convinced him that the Russian farmers could grow wheat on the frozen tundra. The people who died in Russia either starved to death (20 million) or died in gulags because they refused to go along with Stalin’s anti-science views and his hair brained scheme. So you really should learn the facts of the situation because this is a lesson apparently not learned. However in about 15 years when it’s 180 degrees in North America because climate change denialism caused a runaway greenhouse gas effect we will have a much bigger tragedy on our hands. That is if the Christians and the Muslims don’t immolate us all first fighting over whose fairy tales we all must believe. Like I said you’re the worst and most dishonest people on this planet. You just proved me right. Thanks. How many more times am I going to have to humiliate you before you just crawl back under that rock?

Stalin starved people in the Ukraine as a matter of policy in order to destroy a power center (an independent peasantry) which he saw as a threat.

And you know, of course, that the whole field of genetics was started by a catholic monk messing about with peas?

Boris

“As [Lindzen’s] colleagues at MIT in the Program in Atmospheres, Oceans and Climate, all of whom are actively involved in understanding climate, we write to make it clear that this is not a view shared by us, or by the overwhelming majority of other scientists who have devoted their professional lives to careful study of climate science,” said the March 2 letter, signed by 22 current and retired MIT professors.
The MIT staff addressed specific inaccuracies in Lindzen’s letter, including his assertion that “carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.”
“The risks to the Earth system associated with increasing levels of carbon dioxide are almost universally agreed by climate scientists to be real ones,” they wrote. “These include, but are not limited to, sea level rise, ocean acidification, and increases in extreme flooding and droughts, all with serious consequences for mankind.”

You hate science because science proves that your asinine religious beliefs are false. Deny evolution while you’re at it. Stalin was an evolution denier so he’s just like you. Stupid.

David Davies

So, for you, Boris, facts are decided by majority vote.

Right.

And religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. In fact, it is extremely ironic that the Pope seems to agree with you.

Boris

“So, for you, Boris, facts are decided by majority vote.”

Not for me. For everybody. A fact is nothing more than a widely held observation. For we unbelievers and for science all facts are provisional and all findings are subject to future revision or even outright rebuttal. If you are a mature adult this doesn’t bother you in the least. But for whiny, immature punks like you that is unacceptable. You cannot deal with a world where there is no certainty because you never grew up. So you cling to a religion that was debunked centuries ago because it gives you a false sense of certainty. You have the mind of a small, spoiled child just like the Jesus you worship. We science minded people say that we have proofs without certainty which is much better than having certainty without any proofs. Jesus Christ never existed. There is no heaven or hell. Grow the f@&% up.

David Davies

“The intelligent mind wants to know how.”

Why?

Boris

Intelligent people want to know. People like you think they already do.

David Davies

No, I have no idea why you think this conversation is important.

Boris

It isn’t. So go away and do not post anything else directed at me. You started it. I finished it. CHECKMATE.

Boris

Unsafe abortion: the preventable pandemic.

Grimes DA1, Benson J, Singh S, Romero M, Ganatra B, Okonofua FE, Shah IH.
Author information
Abstract
Ending the silent pandemic of unsafe abortion is an urgent public-health and human-rights imperative. As with other more visible global-health issues, this scourge threatens women throughout the developing world. Every year, about 19-20 million abortions are done by individuals without the requisite skills, or in environments below minimum medical standards, or both. Nearly all unsafe abortions (97%) are in developing countries. An estimated 68 000 women die as a result, and millions more have complications, many permanent. Important causes of death include haemorrhage, infection, and poisoning. Legalisation of abortion on request is a necessary but insufficient step toward improving women’s health; in some countries, such as India, where abortion has been legal for decades, access to competent care remains restricted because of other barriers. Access to safe abortion improves women’s health, and vice versa, as documented in Romania during the regime of President Nicolae Ceausescu. The availability of modern contraception can reduce but never eliminate the need for abortion. Direct costs of treating abortion complications burden impoverished health care systems, and indirect costs also drain struggling economies. The development of manual vacuum aspiration to empty the uterus, and the use of misoprostol, an oxytocic agent, have improved the care of women. Access to safe, legal abortion is a fundamental right of women, irrespective of where they live. The underlying causes of morbidity and mortality from unsafe abortion today are not blood loss and infection but, rather, apathy and disdain toward women.
PMID: 17126724 DOI: 10.1016/S0140-6736(06)69481-6

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Your abstract is right out of Henry Kissinger’s National Security Memo which found that developing countires with growing populations are a threat to the security of the USA. And that contraception had to be imposed on said countries to on said countries so that the natural resources would not be used by the growing populations but reserved for the USA.

As admitted in your abstract abortion is just another means to contracept. As in the USA abortion has always been aimed at the elimination of the inferior races to make life more enjoyable for the elite.

Goose stepping to a brighter tomorrow via abortion.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Which people groups do you consider to be inferior races?

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

There is only one human race. We are all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Actually the study of genetics has shown that there were never less than 12,000 homo sapiens on the planet. There’s no such thing as the first two humans, first two bears, first two dogs, that isn’t how common descent works. The change from predecessor species to modern ones is so gradual it is almost imperceptible.

Push

Where did you study genetics?

Boris

At a private Christian college in Allentown PA. That’s where I learned that human evolution is the best documented science we have. Evolution is better established than Atomic Theory, Relativity, Cosmological Theory or any other scientific theory. And in science theory means explanation of the facts. Common descent is a fact and evolution explains this fact. You are arguing and disbelieving facts because OTHER PEOPLE taunted and scared you with threats of eternal damnation. Being the coward you are you knuckled under and surrendered you brains to the lies of religion. And now you’re stuck with them, no way out. And you have to live with the knowledge that we atheists will have the last laugh and man is it a good one! Loser.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

What are you talking about? There are no private Christian colleges in Allentown PA.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Push

Since you’ve fully embraced this cult of evolutionism as fervently as any 18th century Calvinist immersed himself in the teachings of John Calvin are you at least willing to admit the only end result of your faith is nihilism? Can you do that? If not why not?

Boris

Ah the age old question of “Why are we here?” I suspect this is like asking why does 5 equal 5. That the universe has no purpose and life has no inherent meaning is not a bad thing. This means that each one of us is free to choose whatever purposes we want for our lives and free to imbue our lives with whatever meaning we choose. This is a far superior way to live than to have other people tell you what the purpose and meaning of life is. I’m sorry for people like you because you can never be truly happy when you’re not in charge of your own mind and must keep your thoughts in captivity. The end result is the same for both of us. You’re going to spend your life in intellectual servitude to false beliefs so don’t hand me that jive about if you’re wrong you’ve lost nothing. You’ve lost EVERYTHING. Just read some stories by ex-Christians. There are millions of them and 53,000 new ones in America every week. Evolution has been taught in Christian colleges and universities since before the Scopes trial. Your own academic community rejected biblical creationism long before your parents wee born. Adolph Hitler did not however he rejected evolution and the German public schools taught biblical creationism until 1960. By then the only other Christian nation still teaching creationism was South Africa and we know what that was like in 1960. So we see the kind of racist ideology creationism teaches. BTW I can tell you are intellectually lazy. Our school mascot is a Mule. I admit very few people have ever heard of it who don’t live around there.

Push

Why all the anger, Boris? What makes you so emotionally invested in deriding a faith different than yours? You’re a nihilist so you should just shrug your shoulders and say “to each his own, nothing really matters.”

The answer to my question is your faith does matter to you like others’ matters to them. You are no different than anyone else in that you have an inherent drive to proselytize. You seek to convert others to your belief system even if it is indeed a farcical irony to the underlying nihilism of your creed.

Let’s face it — you’re an evangelist. An evangelist for humanism. No big deal just be honest instead of wallowing in cognitive dissonance while boasting of your incredible knowledge of genetics, religion and abortion statistics.

Push

There’s no such thing as a man with no religion. If he dismisses all the conventional ones he’s sure to replace it with one of his own making.

Boris

I knew that last post would really bother you. You Bible thumpers always try to bring atheism down to the level of your religious superstitions. Christianity only appeals to the base human emotion of cowardice. You cowards cannot stand how brave other people are to laugh in the face of threats that drove you so far out of your mind with fear you were willing to believe anything other people told you would save you. You envy us. Faith is belief without evidence. What does an atheist have to have faith in? Don’t avoid this question. We don’t have religion either. You don’t see atheists getting together once or more a week singing, worshiping, screaming, crying, praying, pretending to heal and be healed, preaching, lying… No atheists don’t do that. We don’t need strength in numbers and reassurance from other people to cling to a belief system that was debunked by science a long time ago like you’re doing. In fact trying to get atheists together to do something for atheism is like trying to herd cats. Christians are herd animals. We atheists are not. Finally anyone who would utter the phrase, “cult of evolutionism” is a scientific ignoramus and a liar. Evolution by Natural Selection is the best established science there is. Evolution has been taught in Christian colleges and universities for over a century. Evolution is the model scientific theory because it is better established than Atomic Theory, Relativity, Cosmological Theory or any other scientific theory. And please don’t expose your ignorance further by saying that it is only a theory. In science a theory is an explanation of the facts. Common descent is a fact and evolutionary theory explains the fact of common descent. If you don’t believe me trot on down to the science department at Wheaton College or any other Christian college or university and they’ll tell you the exact same thing. I fight against your religion because it is false and if it were not for the rise of atheism, deism, free thought, humanism, secularism in the West you Christians would be doing exactly what you were doing 400 years ago which is exactly what ISIS is doing now. They must be stopped the way you were. With the truth. Muhammad never even existed. Pass it on.

Push

“I knew that last post would really bother you.”

I’m old enough to have chewed up atheists like you for decades so I have no inclination to accept the idea that you are bothersome to me. Water off a duck’s back, my Marxist muffin. You’ve laughably tripped and stumbled through this conversation and proved your amateurish level of knowledge on the subject and thus revealed your huge reservoir of faith. You really don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re just a scratched record album of talking points you’ve heard from the Dawkins’ of this world. *Yawn*

“You Bible thumpers always try to bring atheism down to the level of your religious superstitions.”

You thump your atheist bible with the best of ’em, O pious one.

Boris

No Christian has ever won a debate with an atheist. Not once, not ever and you know it. You’re a big mouth with a little tiny brain. Your religion is joke. Jesus Christ and his merry men never even existed. The nations of Israel and Judah described in the Bible are as fictional as Atlantis. My ancestors are Jewish. We happen to know quite a bit more about our stupid and false religion than you Christers do. So go away little man. Science has won the day. They teach evolution at every Christian college and university in the world that isn’t a Bible college. So the Christian academics agree with me and know you’re an uneducated science and female hating buffoon. Like my post was something you weren’;t ready for and don’t know how to respond to. And bu the way loser. you just lost another debate with an atheist. POOF. ROFL!!!!

Push

“No Christian has ever won a debate with an atheist.”

From the same source of statistics as the “10,000 annual botched abortions before Roe v Wade?”

Push

“Science has won the day.”

Science is incapable of winning anything. Science is just experimentation and observation.

Now…what you really are talking about is scientism. That’s what you’re espousing. That’s your house of worship. But it’s not science. And it’s not winning. It is trying to compete, however.

Since Gnosticism and other cults of almost 2,000 years ago silly ideas have tried to compete with Christianity. Like I said, it’s no big deal and we’ve seen it all before in some fashion or another.

Boris

No we’ve never seen anything like this before. Ever. Christianity has completely collapsed. It barely exists in Europe and Scandinavia and according to AFR, Dr. Michael Brown and other apologists 53,000 Americans leave the Church every week. Frank Turek quotes the stat that 3 out of 4 Christian college students reject their faith before they graduate. Hank Hanegraaf looked into this and said that the number grows to 94 percent by the time people reach 30. Christianity is like a balloon with all the air rushing out of it flying around the room backward bumping into stuff. Scientists were never out to compete with or debunk your religion. We discovered some stuff about the real world and what happened to Christianity is what we call collateral damage. You tried to stand in the way of science once too often and got steamrolled into oblivion. Christianity was over when your universities began teaching Darwinian Evolution over a century ago. All of your bluster and nonsense isn’t going to change a thing.

Push

Collapsing in Europe? You might be close to the truth there.

Flourishing in Asia and Africa? Indeed.

Your correlation of its decline in Europe with a rise in scientism is dead on but your implied thesis that an increase in numbers of that particular cult adds to its validity could be easily shredded by even your own logic.

Boris

“Missionaries are the perfect nuisances and leave every place worse than they found it.) – Charles Dickens (1812-1870)
Yes Christianity is flourishing in the poverty and ignorance stricken areas of the world where superstition rules but nowhere else. And that’s what so bad about it is that the purveyors of the Christian superstition are taking advantage of these poor gullible and superstitious people rather than helping them.
“The pioneers and missionaries of religion have been the real cause of more trouble and war than all other classes of mankind.” – Edgar Allen Poe (1809-1849)

This is kinda like you bringing up the Cambrian Period to bolster your case for Darwinism. Like I said earlier, you lack the education and intellectual wherewithal to advance your cause when you inadvertently highlight some of the weakest areas of religion in a vain attempt to appear learned.

Boris

When the Christian’s lies are exposed here comes the ad hominem. The gun’s almost empty. Here it comes…… wait for it….. a little longer…. wait…. When all else fails the threat of eternal damnation. The proof the only reason the Christian believes is because he’s afraid not to. OTHER PEOPLE frightened him into his beliefs and he just can’t figure out why he can’t fright anyone else the way he was frightened. If only he could get someone else to believe, even a small child then maybe, just maybe it could be true! Like musical chairs ain’t it? You’re it and if you could just pass it on maybe there’s a free trip to the Christian magic happy land after all. Nope. Wrong again Dude. Thanks for the laughs.

Push

You and I have discussed eternal damnation? Where?

Boris

No and I was just saving you the trouble because that’s almost always the fundamentalist’s move once the atheist calls checkmate. Which I did. You did not answer my question about why there are no reptile or mammal fossils in the Cambrian geological layers. Have you ever played with a person who just plays on after you call checkmate? Chess it’s on that thing you play checkers on. because that’s what you’re doing. You don’t just blab on when someone calls your bluff. I’ll give you another chance to answer the question but you can scour all the creationist websites which I’m sure you already did and you’re not getting help from creationist loons on this one. CHECKMATE.

Push

Good night, cleric Boris. May your dreams be awash in tiny penises.

Me? I’m a vulva man.

Boris

CHECKMATE.

David Davies

I’m with you, Push.

Push

Is there some kind of necessity for mammalian and reptile fossils in the Cambrian Period?

Push

“Christianity was over when your universities began teaching Darwinian Evolution over a century ago.”

You and I both agree that Darwinian evolution and Christianity are diametrically opposed to each other and those who attempt to combine the two are on a fool’s errand. They don’t mix. At all.

However, contrary to your opinion of Darwinian evolution being akin to the laws of physics it is an hypothesis as porous as a screen door on a submarine. It is the Great Lie and “told often enough has become the truth.” The Cambrian Period fossil record inconsistencies expose just one facet of the Great Lie. The lack of observation, aka the Scientific Method, of Darwinian evolution make up the bulk of the huge farce. Its problems are legion. But the priests and converts of materialism and evolution have most certainly been very effective in their proselytizing efforts.

By the way, I hate to shatter your world but many of them thar hominid skulls you dun bin worshiping at the Smithsonian and elsewhere are mostly artists’ renditions based on a tooth or bone fragment. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re completely worthless but impressionable youngsters like you need to know this when they’re taking communion at these holy sites. You know what I mean, Friar Boris?

Boris

Okay you did not answer the question. I asked you why there are no reptile or mammal fossils in the Cambrian geological layers. Typical of the usual highly unethical creationist debating tactics you went right on blabbing about inconsistencies which of course the answer to that question proves there aren’t any. In a real debate the moderator would make you answer the question and you know it. You know what this means. You just lost ANOTHER debate to an atheist. Sorry I’m not going to tolerate that kind of intellectual dishonesty and such an amateur attempt at being sneaky.

Push

The answer to your Cambrian question is why should there be? Now explain the Cambrian conundrum that has perplexed evolutionists for decades. Where are the pre-Cambrian fossils, i.e., the ancestors of Cambrian fauna? Completely missing. Totally absent. Non-existent.

No, Bishop Boris, the Cambrian Period is not your friend. You should skip that chapter and dwell on Galapagos finches or peppered moths but then again you’d just have another set of insurmountable problems to overcome.

You’ve got a tough row to hoe. I can see why tiny penises are your forte, your go-to argument tactic.

Boris

Where are the pre-Cambrian fossils,
What is algae? Yikes! Why don’t you google that and instead of going to an anti-science creatard website go to a real science website. You’re not going to do that because you don’t give a rip about the truth. You’re doing what all creationists do which hurl questions at people hoping they won’t know the answers while ignoring any questions asked of you. It doesn’t get much lower than that dude. Don’t waste my time.

Push

Whoa dude! Algae is the immediate evolutionary ancestor of the Cambrian trilobites? You gotta be kidding me!

No, Imam Boris, we can’t have a simple plant being the great granddaddy of Tommy Trilobite. That’s not how Chuckie D laid it all out, man.

See, Tommy ain’t got nobody down yonder in his family tree. He just popped up outta nowhere! It’s like a…miracle, man! A miracle!

Then again, miracles are part and parcel of Darwinism. They be e’erywhere! I kid ye not.

Don’t nobody run ’round tryin’ to convince this ol’ country boy that Charles Darwin didn’t parallel Joseph Smith for no good reason. When you hook yerself into Chuckie’s cult you guarantee yerself a whole boatload of miracles, sir. It ain’t no frivolity to recognize such.

Boris

CHECKMATE. YOU LOSE.

Boris

You creationists have a lot bigger problems than evolution. The science of archaeology proved that Abraham never existed because camels were not domesticated during the time this fictional character supposedly lived. Of course we thinkers don’t need a lot of proof that a guy who supposedly lived to be 175 and impregnated an old battle ax at the age of 100 is a fictional character. The story was written by men to get other men to follow them blindly. And students of comparative religion easily recognize the Isaac sacrifice story is a direct rip off of the much older Agamemnon bring ordered to sacrifice his daughter story. We know we can take the Egyptian archaeologists at their word when they tell us that if every first born child and animal in Egypt all died on one night they would certainly know something about it. The fact that the Passover event described in the Bible is a complete fiction debunks all three monotheistic superstitions absolutely. The problem is no one cares about the Bible anymore so it’s hard to get this knowledge out there. People know Christianity is false on so many levels already no one needs yet another reason to disbelieve it. But even more devastating to the Christian superstition is the fact that neuroscientists used experiments and demonstrations to prove human free will is an illusion. Humans do not have free will. What is your next thought going to be? See what I mean? This is the final nail in the coffin of Christianity. Now experiments and demonstrations are things that only scientists can do. The Intelligent Design Magic hoaxers promised us they were going to do experiments and demonstrations to prove their boogy magic was real. Gee, I wonder why the ID Magic hoaxers never did any experiments or demonstrations like they promised. What were they going to do? I’ve seen every anti science argument you’ve made a thousand times. Do you think we atheists don’t know you get all of your lies and misinformation from the Discovery Institute and Answers in Genesis? FYI there’s a great Talk Origins website called Index to Creationist Claims. In there is a list of every creationist claim ever made and multiple refutations of each one. Creationist claims are so stupid and brain dead there are almost always about 6 different ways to refute them. And this is why creationists have never and will never win a debate with an atheist. Now you could easily go to this website and have all of your creationist claims solidly refuted right before you very eyes. But you won’t. You are so afraid of and have such a hatred of the truth about things you will simply ignore this website. You’ll tell yourself that Satan is behind it and go on trying to believe what you know is not true. Finally calling me uneducated is a hoot. I had a year of Ancient Greek in high school, three more in college. I can read the New Testament. You can’t. Not only do you not know anything about science you don’t know the first thing about your asinine religion either. And that is what you call a good old intellectual smack down. I’d stay down and quiet if I were you.

Boris

How does a lay person become so arrogant they think they know more about a subject than the people who actually teach and work in the field for a living? There’s no debate about the validity of Evolution by Natural Selection nor has there ever been. Your creationist cult leaders have obviously convinced you otherwise. Please go to the Quote Mine Project. There you can prove to yourself that your creationist cult leaders have not only been lying to you they are the most dishonest people ever. And it’s so obvious.

Push

“Cambrian…inconsistencies which of course the answer to that question proves there aren’t any.”

C’mon man, many of the most ardent evolutionists of all time from Darwin to Gould and beyond admit the huge problems of the Cambrian Explosion. Are you calling your own temple overlords liars? How dare you?

Push

“In a real debate the moderator would make you” cease and desist with the Freudian fascination with tiny penises.

Push

“Christianity has completely collapsed. It barely exists in Europe and Scandinavia.”

By the way, I could inform you that Scandinavia is part of Europe so it’s redundant to say “in Europe and Scandinavia” but I digress.

Anyhow, speaking of Christianity collapsing in Europe…Europe itself is collapsing. So let’s do some of that correlation stuff you’ve been doing and really make some hay.

Push

” All of your bluster and nonsense…”

I had me a LOL moment for sure when I read this. From the guy who began this discussion by obsessing over tiny penises this is priceless.

Push

“…if it were not for the rise of atheism, deism, free thought, humanism, secularism in the West…” we wouldn’t have had the most genocidal epoch in human history, i.e., the 20th century.

Push

Sure you did, pal (study genetics at Allentown Christian college). Suspected of trolling. Now convicted. Not worth my time anymore.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Thank you for your reply.

And how do your geneticists know? Were they there in the beginning?

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

There is no “there.” There is here. We are here and we have a very good idea about went on right here because there’s plenty of evidence. There’s no evidence to support any of your religious delusions. No evidence for any God, no evidence that anything the Bible claims even might be or could be true. You’re welcome to your delusions but science has moved way past anything you’ll ever be able to comprehend with your tiny uneducated brain, your tiniest and most useless organ.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Please

“Evidence”? Pelt Down Man, Peking Man and Java Man were all frauds. What is worse the scientific establishment knew they were frauds early on. Yet the evolutionists maintained the lies for about 75-years before quietly admitting the truth and withdrawing the exhibits from prestigious museums.

Science cannot be based on lies.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Oh please. It was scientists who discovered these were frauds. People passed them off for money and fame not for science. You people act like these are the only things ever dug up. There are thousands of skulls of various hominids dating from 10,000 to 3 million years ago. There are no reptile or mammal fossils in the Cambrian geological layers. Why is that do you think? Why are the simple life forms always at the bottom of the geological strata and the complex life forms always at the top? No exceptions. That’s all the proof you need that your Christian apologist evolution deniers are lying to you so you’ll by their stupid and already debunked books.

Push

If you knew your fossil facts you’d know there’s actually a relative dearth of complete skulls of hominids. Even then usually only fragments and/or a tooth here or there.

And a major faux pas on your part to mention the Cambrian period. The hypothesis of evolution (not talking adaptation here, fella) coughs and wheezes and lies dying on the operating table when the inconsistencies of the Cambrian and pre-Cambrian period are examined. Only with a huge hypodermic injection of Faith can the evolution patient survive the Cambrian Period surgery. It’s simply a deadly affliction.

Boris

You’re messing with the wrong person with those lies. I grew up in D.C. and my father had a store a few blocks from the Smithsonian. 434 First St. S.E. Go down there and count the hominid skulls they have right now. Tell them there are no transitional species while you look right at the transitional species. LOL. Count ’em all. I bet you can’t count that high even if you take off your shoes. Dude when you live there you take field trips there. When you have to lie like you’re doing to defend your religious superstitions it’s time to dump them in the trash and grow up and be a man for the first time in your miserable life. You can find hominid skulls in the science departments at any Christian college or university in the world. The science museum where I live has a few. They’re everywhere. One question and I’ll probably never hear from you again. Then you can disappear like your cowardly friend Richard. Here it is: Why are there no reptile or mammal fossils in the Cambrian geological layers? Answer the question or disappear.

Push

The evidence is “here.” And “there.” And everywhere. And it’s overwhelming. But not to a man blinded by a faith in the cult of materialism and evolutionism. Of course not.

Push

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.”

I Corinthians 1:18 – 21

Boris

How do you Bible thumpers know. Were you there in the beginning?

Actually the universe did not have a beginning. It began to expand about 14 million years ago but the mass-energy that comprises our universe has always existed in one form or another. Look it up. We know this from two different lines of evidence plus the observation that mass-energy can neither be created or destroyed. Claiming your God can create matter is as foolish as saying your God can make a square circle. Fearless Leader sends his regards from here in Frostbite Falls Minnesota.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Why are you so ignorant?

The Roman Catholic Church (See St John Paul II) has always, under certain conditions, accepted the possibility of evolution.

Remember the rule of thumb: “The Bible does not teach us how the heavens go; but how to go to Heaven”?

However the Church also allows us the freedom of not being bound by popular, upper class hosus pocus; but by real science.

Which so far you seem to have ignored.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

No dice. Science does not come ala carte like your Bible does. You don’t get to say “…under certain conditions, accepted the possibility of evolution.” You can’t say we’ll take the micro but hold the macro or set any conditions under which you think certain science is acceptable. The fact that you insist on doing this is the very reason you have marginalized yourself in society. That and the constant lying about science that comes from the creationist publishing cottage industry. and Christian apologists.

Push

“Actually the universe did not have a beginning.”

Faith…in spades.

Push

Don’t you think that question is better reserved for the abortion proponents? After all, the foundation of the modern (past 100 years or so) abortion industry was poured with racial inferiority as a key ingredient.

Boris

Wrong again. The abortion laws made it much more difficult for poor women to get abortions which is exactly what they were designed by people like you to do. White Christians hate black Christians and everybody knows it. Racism only still exists in America on Sunday morning. All you have to do is stick your head inside a church and all the people will be various shades of one color. You impotent geeks cannot satisfy your women so you look for ways to control them.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:

Today there were, sadly, 3-4 thousand abortions. More than half odf which were babies of color.

The only folks opposing this racist slaughter are working class white Christians.

The principal proponents of this racist slaughter are white upper class intellectuals.

Funny that.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

Boris

Abortions were not only legal they were openly advertised when our Constitution was written. Had the war profiteering, slave owners who founded this nation wanted to make abortions illegal they would have at that time. Forcing women to have abortions is wrong. However forcing parenthood on people who don’t want it, can’t afford it, can’t handle it or who have been raped is just as wrong. Of course unthinking people like you cannot see two or more sides to a difficult issue like this. It’s too much for you to have to think for yourself on a difficult issue like this. The Bible not only doesn’t prohibit abortion it gives directions on how to administer an abortifacient to a suspected adulteress. It’s a brutal ritual not anything like abortions today. So you can’t even use your religion to defend your hatred of and fear of women. And Jesus Christ never even existed. Give me one mention of ANY of the apostles by ANY secular writer from the First – well ANY century. Your religion is so easy to see through. You can tell by reading the New Testament that the Church already existed BEFORE long BEFORE any of it was written. So it’s obvious who wrote it. The Church. They were competing with other cults and religions for converts, their money and their young boys. “Look we have these texts and guess what. They leave us in charge of the whole world.” What a bleeping coincidence. Your religion produced texts that said God came to Earth to found THEIR church. Wow that is just sooooooo believable. How gullible can you be? The most obvious scam ever and you bought it hook, line and stinker.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:
RE: Re-Post

Sorry. I do not know what I am doing wrong. My two previous replies to your post have gone missing.

There is only one human race. We are all sons and daughters of Adam and Eve. Our Race has only one enemy – Satan.

Christ is passing by. Time to convert.

God bless

Richard W Comerford

P.S.: My regards to Natasha and watch out for Moose and Squirrel!

David Davies

The question should be ‘Which people groups did Margaret Sanger consider to be inferior races?’.

Boris

David I want you to tell me exactly what it is you do not like about Margaret Sanger. Step up to the plate.

David Davies

Sure. Sanger wanted to weed my wife and her relatives out of the human race. You know, the brown ones?

Boris

Where and what is your evidence for that exactly? Lies from a creationist website no doubt. Sanger said:
“Discrimination is a world-wide thing. It has to be opposed everywhere. That is why I feel the Negro’s plight here is linked with that of the oppressed around the globe. The big answer, as I see it, is the education of the white man. The white man is the problem. It is the same as with the Nazis. We must change the white attitudes. That is where it lies. In that same article, Sanger described an encounter with an “anti-Negro white man”: When we first started out an anti-Negro white man offered me $10,000 if I started in Harlem first. His idea was simply to cut down the number of Negroes. ‘Spread it as far as you can among them,’ he said. That is, of course, not our idea. I turned him down. But that is an example of how vicious some people can be about this thing. Not exactly the words of a woman hell-bent on exterminating Black people, are they?” Sanger was quote mined by lying Christian apologists. When you look at how her quotes were dishonestly taken out of context to paint her as being anti-black you will see an example of just how dishonest Bible believers really are. The enemy of brown skinned people is this white redneck religion called Christianity. Dump it now.

David Davies

“We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”

Boris

It seems to me from my experience where I have been in North Carolina, Georgia, Tennessee and Texas, that while the colored Negroes have great respect for white doctors they can get closer to their own members and more or less lay their cards on the table which means their ignorance, superstitions and doubts. They do not do this with the white people and if we can train the Negro doctor at the Clinic he can go among them with enthusiasm and with knowledge, which, I believe, will have far-reaching results among the colored people. His work in my opinion should be entirely with the Negro profession and the nurses, hospital, social workers, as well as the County’s white doctors. His success will depend upon his personality and his training by us.
The minister’s work is also important and also he should be trained, perhaps by the Federation as to our ideals and the goal that we hope to reach. We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.
A related memo written by Dr. Gamble in 1939 clarifies the point:
There is great danger that we [the Negro Project] will fail because the Negroes think it a plan for extermination. Hence let’s appear to let the colored run it.
Sanger’s full quote in context has the exact opposite meaning that anti-choicers like to attribute to it.
ROFL! Open mouth insert foot. How does your foot taste? What a moron.

David Davies

“I accepted an invitation to talk to the women’s branch of the Ku Klux Klan … I saw through the door dim figures parading with banners and illuminated crosses … I was escorted to the platform, was introduced, and began to speak … In the end, through simple illustrations I believed I had accomplished my purpose. A dozen invitations to speak to similar groups were proffered.”

Boris

Yes and your problem with trying to get the women in the KKK to use birth control is what exactly? Do you think at all? Or are you too busy playing the victim card?

David Davies

Hahaha. Sanger was there as a co-belligerent.

Push

Hmmmm….now let’s hunt and peck for the 10,000 annual botched abortions “studies.” You first, you made the claim.

I’ll put on a pot of tea while I wait.

Richard W Comerford

Mr. Boris:
RE: Re-Post

Sorry; but my original reply went missing. I will try and re-write.

The year before Roe Wade the CDC estimated the number of women who had died from botched abortions at 38.

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