I think the what the OP's picture really proves is that what a person believes in doesn't come from their religion, but from who they already are. This is why you'll see people cheering on the abuse of children and rampant homophobia.

I suppose that is what I meant, more than being completely unbiased which as you stated is impossible. You learn than when filming a documentary for example, objectivity is destroyed merely by your presence.

You can still be objective by saying "this is how I feel, this is why, this is what I found, this is how I reconcile the two". You at least want to work against trying to turn outright blatant distortions into facts.

Are you kidding me? Dan Savage did not have to apologize for the "pansy-ass" comment?

When he's giving a talk about stopping bullying and he's calling people leaving his lecture "pansy-asses"? That is not exactly taking the high road.

In fact, Savage really hurt his credibility on this one. He's turned what should be the idea of bully prevention and turned it into gay rights vs. the bible. I fully support gay rights and denounce the BS in the bible every chance I get, but what Dan Savage said was wrong. He should be standing up against bullying in all of its forms, not just when it affects gay people. Rather than discussing something with people he disagreed with, while they were simply leaving his talk, he chose to verbally label them with derogatory language in front of their classmates. That's bullying. And he's a grown man, he should know better.

Dan Savage needs to think about what he's really fighting for here, because if he really cares about stopping bullying from happening in schools, he needs to look at the example he's setting.

You can't talk to an action... he was addressing the individual. He called people who were walking out of his talk "pansy-asses" while trying to promote an anti-bullying message. That definitely damages his credibility. How are we supposed to respect the message he's trying to convey when he can't even stick to his own moral standards while he's giving the talk.

I really like Dan Savage, but he dropped the ball here and hurt his, and much worse, hurt the message.

Nah. He was being critical of their actions. They can choose to not be pansy-asses and hear him out. They'll still be fine after. The kids who get the shit kicked out of them for being sexual minorities? Not so much.

Actually, he didn't actually say "you're a bunch of pansy-asses", or refer to them directly in any other form (other than to say that they could come back in if they so wanted to). He was speaking in general, and it could have been inferred that he was speaking about them, but he did not say it to them.

He really wasn't that bad, calling a room full of adults pansy-ass is not bullying. No one is going to be traumatised by that event. He is also the underdog in this situation as are gays in general in the US.

Admittedly it might not help his case but I think he is actually fighting for gay rights and against religious bigotry quite successfully.

Nope. He was actually making a statement about the hypocrisy of the argument from the other side. A good chunk of Dan Savage's vocabulary includes words that are casually defamatory against gay people - he just uses them to describe people that are anti-gay in the form the word was intended to be used.

pan·sy [pan-zee]

noun, plural pan·sies.

(3) Slang: Disparaging and Offensive

a. a male homosexual.

b. a weak, effeminate, and often cowardly man.

People walking out on a gay man pointing out that the bible was used as a primary reason for him being beaten as a child, who don't want to have to actually think about what their 'good' book causes is a very 'pansy-like' action.

I think Dan Savage could have come across as more civil and level-headed. Public perception on issues of civil rights is best improved by clear maintenance of the moral highground. That said, while Dan Savage may have been a bit of a dick, I think even a large number of Christians would agree that Sean Harris is a super-King-Kamehameha Dick with a capital D.

While I do believe that the teachings in the bible that tell you gay people are bad is pure nonsense, if you are trying to get people to see it your way it is generally easier to do it without calling their beliefs 'bullshit'.

Catch more flies with honey than vinegar and all that. He was probably doing damage control. I mean not all Christians are crazy homophobes.

I was surprised when I saw how hard the media took it when Dan pointed out how ignorant the people defending the "facts" in the Bible were. I agreed completely with what he said and everyone fucking overreacted when some simple evidence was put out. You know, as usual.

This makes me sick. I'm a Christian, and honestly I don't care about the Athiest vs Christian battle going on on Reddit. I just try to do the right thing in life. You by no means have to be Christian to do the right thing, either. In this case, hurting people because they have different points of view, or different sexuality, is horrible. I don't get how people could follow that shit. There should be no conflict over the fact that the Bible shouldn't be followed word-for-word, by any means.

Because it's the benefit of Christianity, and almost every religion. People are going to adapt it to fit beliefs they liked anyway. Yet when the chips are down, they're going to join the group that makes them feel most safe, and are going to demonize the things that make them feel least safe. Sad, but human nature in a nutshell.

I'd say it's at least over 90% they don't like.
There are a few passages in the new testament where Jesus is telling people not to be dicks, but everything else is either a 'metaphor' or it's 'out of context' or 'that's not what Christianity is (now)'

Don't feel injured by the backlash focused on assholes like Sean Harris, join in the condemnation of him--not just here but in real life too!

I'm not trying to say you don't, just that there are a lot of folks who cry "But we're not all like that!" in response to someone like Savage but who are mysteriously silent when the bigots are spewing their hate.

To be fair, Savage also called them all pansyasses in what was supposed to be an anti-bullying message. Not trying to diminish the OP but that definitely gave some fuel to their fire.

EDIT - Since lots of you are getting your panties in a twist about this let me say something - It doesn't matter whether you think it was justified. What matters is how it was perceived and used in the media. That's all that ever matters. Please calm down and stop being so damn defensive.

He was giving a speech to a bunch of journalism students at a journalism conference. Real journalists don't storm out of the room in protest when someone starts to say something they disagree with personally.

I see nothing wrong with Savage calling them on their bullshit and calling them "pansyasses" for not having the respect, courtesy, and integrity to not make a huge hissy-fit scene because the truth about their holy book is inconvenient to listen to.

To be fair, he slung the word "pansy-ass" to a group who 1) clearly didn't want to listen to the anti-bullying message once their religion was brought into it; 2) to a group that, either by ignoring or directly advocating, promotes violence towards gays (ie, his "peer group" if you will); and 3) he threw the word out once. One name-call does not equate to bullying. It's being an asshole, but it's not bullying; not once did he say all Christians are pansy-asses, he said the people who walked out were behaving like pansy-asses because they couldn't handle criticism against their beliefs, even when it came to something as serious as bullying.

Had there not been a walk-out, had they done their part and stayed for the duration of the journalism convention and proceeded to write their own articles with their own take on his speech, the word would never have been used. They never would have been called out.

Not saying what he said was wholly appropriate, but it's not bullying.

Those students deserved it. It's not like he picked them out at random. They walked out on a very real problem that faces the LGBT kids and any other kid deemed to be gay: the religious bullshit used to justify violence against them.

If Dan is apologizing for anything, it's to prevent the "offended" from further taking their anger out on LGBTs. That doesn't mean anyone here has to carry water for these cowards.

The inability to respect the opinions and rights of others is the essential flaw in the world today. It simply comes down to worrying about yourself and understanding that if others are not hurting you, its none of your damn business

With all due respect, it was the latter parts of Dan Savage's speech that were deemed more offensive. Savage was not fair in everything he said, and Savage himself posted this article from The Economist that does a little more justice to the situation.

" I have never suggested children or those in the LGBT lifestyle should be beaten, punched, abused (physically or psychologically) in any form or fashion. The gospel is the only source of power sufficient to deliver anyone from the power, penalty, and presence of all forms of sin including, but not limited to, all forms of sexual immorality including homosexuality. "

no no, it's not about being embarrassed by their "dirty house." it's that they agree with those ideas. "ignore all that bullshit that tells you to hate gays." "boo hiss! that's offensive!" "if your boy's acting queer, beat the shit out of him." "yeah, that's more like it! that's how things should be!"

Savage has a long history of undermining his own valid message with horrifically bad tactics. A few years ago, he caught the flu. He then proceeded to lick the doorknobs at a Republican campaign office, with the goal of intentionally spreading a disease that sometimes kills people.

Unfortunately the guy is a walking object lesson in why you don't use bullshit to fight bullshit. He's best ignored.

That's absolutely awful. I'm not ashamed to call myself a Christian, but I am definitely ashamed to share that label with people like this pastor. He has no idea how much harm he's doing and how far his message is from the love God has for us. It makes me so angry that I'm going to write a letter to him. Thanks for sharing.

TIL that many atheists are homophobic.
I assumed atheists arrived at their atheism via critical thinking, and applied the same method to other aspects of their world-view. I feel so naive and disappointed.

Just a quick reminder of Dan Savage actual "offensive" comments that prompted the walkout:

He mentioned that people use Leviticus (and Timothy, and Romans) to point out that homosexuality is wrong...

while ignoring what the bible says about "shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation... we ignore bullshit in the bible about all sorts of things. The bible is a radically pro-slavery document."

Said students didn't walk out because he called them "pansy-assed." They walked either because he called out their text's hypocrisy or because he called out its savagery.

Children, these are two separate audiences and there are only two different speakers. Not every atheist speaker would say what Dan said, and not every Christian would say what Sean said. And not every audience would respond the same. Some Christian audiences, if presented the pro-gay view in the right way, might come to terms with the fallacy of their beliefs; and some might also disagree with the idea of physically abusing their child for displaying feminine traits.

I irrationally hate the bible as much as the next guy, but this is truly an unfair comparison. walking out on someone because they call something you want to fully believe is perfect is bullshit is a perfectly fine act that is in no way harmful to others. saying that they need to look at an individual pastor who they are completely unaffiliated with, other than a variation of a set of bullshit (I certainely do agree full heartedly with dan) beliefs, is like saying that because an athiest killed a room full of babies, all athiests need to figure themselves out before they condemn religion. its just not fair. also, typed quickly on an ipod, dont hate.

You put the word "Pastor" in quotation marks. This implies that he is somehow not a true pastor because of his comments. This gives too much credit to other pastors, considering them of some "higher stock". The fact is this guy is a pastor, and those comments were fucking horrible.

ex.
In sarcastic reference to a leader of a group, you might say:
"Oh look at our 'leader,' I guess he's telling us what to do again."
This implies that the person in question is not really a leader, but he just accepts that title.

TLDR: This guy is not a "Pastor" for an otherwise kind and gentle religion (ie. a man who's not a "true" pastor). He is an actual pastor who teaches a several thousand year-old book filled with lies, violence and bigotry as fact.

You know, if Christians actually just followed the example of Christ and love one another (you know, like the name "Christian" implies) then they would probably find that it solves a lot more problems than trying to exert control over peoples' lives.

I'm a Christian too, and I believe that it is okay to be gay. What really makes me mad are not the atheists, but the people who give Christians a bad name. For example: the Creationists. These guys are Christians that think that everything in the bible is 100% fact. In my Scripture class at a Catholic high school our teacher even told us that we should not take everything in the Bible literally, but stories such as the Creation story are biblical myths that aren't historical, but provide a religious truth to them. I happen to be a big believer in both science and Christianity and think that both can coexist. Now the reason that Sean Harris Christians make me mad is that they give out a bad reputation to the Christian faith, and do not represent all of us. If all Christians were this ignorant, I would be atheist too.

I think "devout" is the wrong word. They're more fanatical than devout. A devout Christian focuses on what Christ said and did, while a fanatical Christian is the extremist treating non-Christians like crap.

To be fair, most Christians probably don't attend or support the ravings of Sean Harris. I'd be surprised if most were even aware of his existence. This seems dangerously close to being like something that "we" would make fun of "them" for saying.

We can't forget that the Dan Savage walkout was staged by Focus on the Family. By the way, Focus on the Family promotes the same bible based hatred towards Gay and Lesbian Americans that pastor Sean Harris was promoting to his christian congregation.

Two things I hate are people who 1) "take offense" to something trivial, and 2) people who call others "haters" and continue doing whatever it is people give them shit for. Grow up and realize that not everything you do is OK just because it "defines who are". In the end, I'm just going to define you as an asshole.

I love that several people on CNN have been more offended by Savage's use of the word "bullshit" in front of young children. They are in high school and they've never heard or used that term? No shit. Then they're not ready for any semblance of adult life. The majority of the audience didn't walk out on Savage and cheered his points. So, what the hell are the adults bitching about?

so let me get this straight...The Pastor is being a douchebag and wants us parents to hurt our beloved children if they become gay or lesbians. Call me fickle but aren't we supposed to support our children no matter what the outcome is? Dan Savage has the bluntness and the balls to say it all.

Forget about details of this comparison. Ignore the nitty-gritty details of what they were talking about. Look at the big picture:

One guy has first-hand experience with bigotry and bullying. Through his experience with real people in the real world he has discovered a major motivation for the bullying. He brought to light in simple terms the clear language of the text that incites bigotry. His goal was to stand up to the real bully and educate with words and ideas.

The other guy has latched onto a text that enables him to incite real physical harm on people that are different than himself. He uses this text and his audience to drum up a jovial laughter of abuse and supposed morality. His purpose is to spread bigotry.

Please don't take the actions of these "Christians'" as what Christ preached. I am positive Christ did not hate homosexuals. He loved all and died for ALL. These punks that are afraid of anything different than themselves should get a table turned on their heads

1) Just because someone on the other side has done something worse does not make it okay for someone to say something less offensive.

2) Yes, the Bible is not the divine word of a heavenly deity, but just because something is true does not mean it should be inoffensive. Racists use statistics as justification for their beliefs and reasonable people find it abhorrent. If you think your girlfriend is becoming overweight, you don't say, "You're getting fat as shit!" even if it is true.

Someone who is rude and offensive acts in a deliberate way to elicit the strongest negative emotion possible. That is what he was doing. Sure, if I was there, I'd think it was hilarious. But if we're trying to change people's minds as opposed to starting a culture war which neither side can win, respect is needed. You can't fight hatred with hatred. Ask Gandhi.

Except that this article starts off with the sentence: "I'm not bi-phobic - in fact I love bisexual people so much I wish there were more of them. I do find some bisexuals scary, particularly the ones who are always accusing me of being bi-phobic."

"It gets better" was a good thing, overall. However, its message was focused only on LGBT youth which was a little narrow-minded and selfish IMO. There are plenty of people who are bullied for reasons unrelated to sexuality that Savage doesn't seem to care as much about.

Yes, what Sean Harris said was wrong and shitty on so many levels. That does not mean that other Christians should be subjected to a lecture about how their faith is wrong when they expected a talk about journalism. He does not speak for all Christians, just as Savage does not speak for all gays.

You know who was "effeminate"? Jesus. Dude (supposedly) hung out with a dozen men every single day. He even WASHED THEIR FEET. He said that they should turn their cheeks when struck. He also had a major bromance with an unspecified person who is regularly referred to as his "beloved." And he kissed other men, including Judas.

The Berean Baptist Church in Fayetteville, NC sits next to the Montclair Elementary School. Seeing that pastor Sean Harris directly threatened school age children with violence and encouraged his congregation to physically abuse Gay, Lesbian and gender non-conforming children does anyone know if school district has taken any of the following actions.

Has the court issued a restraining order forbidding pastor Sean Harris or any member of the Berean Baptist Church from entering the school grounds or approaching the children?

Has the Montclair Elementary School added extra security to protect the children from pastor Sean Harris or any member of the Berean Baptist Church?

Have the teachers and administrators at the Montclair Elementary School been advised to closely monitor any children whose parents attend the Berean Baptist Church for signs of physical abuse?

Have background checks been executed on the teachers and administrators at Montclair Elementary School to remove any member of the Berean Baptist Church from positions which interact with children?

Has a notice been sent to the parents of all students attending Montclair Elementary School urging caution when picking up or dropping off their children.