The Aliens and UFO Phenomen - Why the "Truth" never might be understood

This might get a long and "complicated" post for which i apologize in advance.

But i want to point out the main problem which might be arising when we talk about UFOs and Aliens.

As so many others, many years ago i started to become interested in the phenomenon of UFOs and Aliens. I read quite a few books, ranging from classic
books about UFO sightings to the interesting books about the Abduction phenomenon. I attended chat rooms, watched movies etc..etc.. So i am pretty
sure that this is very typical thing and many people on ATS have the same history.

The longer i started to have an interest in the overall subject and the further i dug into the subject, with the help in particular of the VERY good
books by Jacques Vallee plus some others which go in the same direction (plus Hopkins/Mack with their reports about Abductions) - it became more or
less clear to me that the UFO phenomenon is very, very likely much, much more complex than what many people assume.

One very common theory and assumption is that UFOs are "craft" controlled by ET (extraterrestrial beings). The UFO phenomenon is seen as a physical
phenomenon - as "real" as for example if we would send a probe up to mars or send astronauts to another planet etc.

But it became more and more clear that the UFO phenomenon has WAAAYYY to many aspects of what you would call "spiritual" to it to simply explain it
with extraterrestrial craft.

Many things told by abductees dont make any sense on a "scientific" level - or they are simply "too far out" and just don't fit in into a simple
explanation.

Many accounts of encounters, abduction or sightings have elements in them which contradict any know science and the "Aliens" behave more like spirits
or ghosts.

Vallee i think was the first one who pointed out the similarities between what people reported in the middle-ages as either demons or angels..and how
many of those phenomenons in the past have similarities with today's UFO encounters.

There is also a STRIKING parallel to what people experience when they "astral travel" (out of body experience) which i personally know as real
experience, depending on how you define "real" of course.

Reports of people meeting Aliens when they have out of body experiences, and of course the extremely striking similarities of OOBE experiences with
the Abduction phenomenon! (Mind you i am NOT doing off the experiences as not being real, i am merely pointing out the similarities!)

In time, i realized that the whole phenomenon is way more complex and there might indeed be ties to religious/spiritual things PLUS maybe to what we
know from ancient scriptures etc. aka "Ancient Alien Theory".

There is a common, often heard claim which can be found throughout all kinds of Abduction/Alien stories...this is that there is some relationship
between "US" and "THEM".

Here is a very nice snippet which i try to recite from memory, i read that a few weeks ago i think here on ATS.

"XYZ has an encounter (out of body experience( and he finds himself amongst Aliens. He becomes aware of this situation and the fact that he is indeed
sleeping but lucid.
He confronts the Alien and tells him "Heck you know i am SLEEPING right now and that all i experience right now is a figure of my imagination. So tell
me...if i imagine/dream all that...how comes you are here?

The Alien then gives some surprising answer which goes like "Well you think you created us in your imagination, but to tell the truth..it's exactly
the other way around. You did not create us, we created you"

There are also countless reports by abductees where they are taught (or instinctively know) about a relationship between us humans and "them"
aliens...and the knowledge given and experienced is sometimes...MORE than baffling, to say it mildly.

The theories range here from that we are indeed created by them (for whatever purpose)....or that we are the Aliens...or "simply" that the "Aliens"
are indeed beings which live "in another dimension"....as opposed to coming from another planet.

Now it gets really interesting if we take the "other dimension" theory and look at history.

We know that many ancient cultures do indeed claim that their Gods/creators come from the sky. Even someone who thinks the AA theory is nonsense
should acknowledge this please.

No ask yourself why it is VERY common throughout cultures to talk with Gods/Spirits/Ghosts/"Aliens" using techniques for changing consciousness, this
could be drugs or trance, meditation and so forth. Shamans, priests, "Magicians", you name it. Every culture had them, some STILL have them.
(Aborigines, Tribes etc.)

It was always those people who knew how to change consciousness using any of the above methods to get in contact with "the other world" and then
getting all kinds of insight from them by using such methods.

And this is again where the circle closes itself...from the reports of ancient "Gods" or creators, angels, demons or beings encountered...and how
people in ancient history might have had more knowledge of those things than we have today trying to understand the phenomenon with "rational"
science.

Because here is the kicker: If we do indeed deal with entities which are "living" in another "dimension", then we can try to explain them with our
science but we will simply NEVER be able to understand.

Because the phenomenon, the Aliens, *are* not really in/at our current level of consciousness. - they might be more evolved in a way which is way
beyond our understanding...maybe entities which evolved in such a way that they already long ago left behind being dependent on our physical world and
are able to live as entities basically "one step above" what we call "our reality".

And they might very well be the same as what we call(ed) Ghosts, demons, spirits, angels, Gods even...

I know this might all sound like "new age" mumbo jumbo..but this is what i realized studying the phenomenon and reading book and this is the
conclusion i made. There are simply too many aspects to the phenomenon which have this "spiritual" touch to it...and 100.000 UFO videos and sightings
reported in the news will likely NOT be able to explain it. Because it goes much, much deeper than what the average Joe thinks it is.

A broad survey of the phenomenon throughout history would seem to demand that the hypotheses put forth by the incomparable Jacques Vallee and other
serious researchers must needs be seriously considered.

My years spent delving into the subject finally led me to believe that some form of the interdimensional hypothesis fits all the data much better than
the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

Originally posted by The GUT
A broad survey of the phenomenon throughout history would seem to demand that the hypotheses put forth by the incomparable Jacques Vallee and other
serious researchers must needs be seriously considered.

My years spent delving into the subject finally led me to believe that some form of the interdimensional hypothesis fits all the data much better than
the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

I must admit, I completely agree with you and the author of this thread. In regards to inter-dimesional beings, I have witnessed this myself while
fully conscious, in no altered state of mind, while sitting on my bed on a Saturday using my laptop. Although, I expect ridicule and a sort of "yeah
right, sure you did" response...it happened to me within the last year. I know what I saw and will never forget it. I have also experienced Out of
Body travels as well...this first happened while sleeping and the ending involved a witness. My hubby who was in the bed with me witnessed something I
did before I woke up that I do not believe either one of us will ever be able to explain.

So although, I have opened myself up to scrutiny and ridicule, it's okay. It's hard to tell others of strange experiences when you can't define them.
I like many others have read so much on the topic and it's good to know that there exists those that believe in these "strange" happenings even though
we can not "scientifically" explain them to be true.

I personally think that Science needs some major corrections and a huge boost in morale as I think it is being taught all wrong. Just my $0.02's.

Its due to the kind of universe we're in and defining real and life. Every star is a clock that determines your time program and also your channel.
Every frequency is also a channel. There are infinite time frequency channels. If you were on Mars with a slightly offset time clock than earth, you
would be able to stealth very easily from us, and we could be moving slower mode. If you program a intelligent bot to experience your day in 15
minutes, you would disappear form his sight, he would appear to be moving in slow mode or standing still as if in a dvd o a story book.

We're a kind of astral density too, but the testing ground. All is spirit. All is thoughtscape, but making use of energies that exist to shape or
imprint the holographic school.

ie like the double slit experiment where they fired one electron at a time through the slits and still discovered an interference pattern, which meant
it was interferring with itself, and there were infinite possibilities and probabilities and then something, be it consciousness or whatever,
syncronized it into place.

Well, the fact is, you have to treat everything like that, mathematically, as possibility/probability, existing all at once. ie. Why is there
something here, why not nothing?

Answer: All possiblities of that equation exist, infinitely. There is something, and there is nothing, and there are infinite shadows inbetween,
shades, and all are real, and exist within an infinite platform where measurement cannot be taken, so exists all at once and there can be no other
answer to this.

Is all that is Consciousness and Sentient, ie. like what we think of as God? Answer, there would be all expressions of energy, both animate and
inanimate, in infinite varieties that would have all forms of connection/oneness, to infinite variety and individual existances. There is a Spirit of
Conscousness between us, and we are individual infinite rays of consciousness that can grow or decrease with expression of consciousness, love,
awareness and unity or thinking of others. And there is inanimate energies that can be printed on like holographic constructs, schools.

What does frequency mean. Meditate on rocks, and singularities and gravity? What kind of a gravity or frequency is guilt or harm? What is murder?
What is unity, cooperation, love, goodness, light as a feather stuff, growth and expansion.

What is Et?

Real people also in cosmic schools, and we're like bottom of the heap for not getting the tests and unity. The only reason the DARK SIDE can pull
this lack of advancement and regression of consciousness off by is by Breeding out the Love, poisons, wars, control., poverty, slavery and intense NLP
programming. Most aren't like this let me tell ya!

Its a frequency match, everything is. Even a comet can't hit or a planet tilt if the frequency is growing kindness, love awareness, freedom and
equality wedded and growing in higher levels of perfection, and not through laws and fascism.

But karma is a trap its not true in the least. The worst people are doing very well on this planet. Its only something that is meant as a tool for
those who are having bad things in their lives and start to notice patterns, always choosing the same kind of relationshiop, always in the same
arguments, and who start to go through their childhood, heal their inner child, and try to learn from their mistakes.

all karma is is natural psychology, and its only applicable to self, and you can only judge self and no other, ever but strive to listen to them,
understand them, not dictate the solutions,but nourish them and equalize them, and honor who they are. Forgive all.

Et is both corporal and entity, both astral and planetary, of all polarities in this universe. And we come here into these tests wtihout memories to
see what we're made of, Love? Apathy? What do we need to perfect? And for really harming we end up with consequences, we sentence ourselves
temporarily to winterlands, we face what have done, with our memories. Because we have to correct, to blow off the mud and distortions and
insanitites of harming others. But we can also experience forgiveness depending on circumstances too and never buy into the inevitability of
winterlands and consequence because Family Above is here on bended knee even if necessary to convince you of love and we're surrounded by thousand
angels, or light being guides around us, everyone is precious.

Et is past/present/future versions of all of the above, corporal or entity, all at once in No Time, and of our own families, past/future as well,
trying to pull us through.

I talked with some people who had out of body experience or astral travel, call it what ever you want, and you're right,they said there were beings
everywhere.Some of them were black and some of them were white.I remember that some researcher said that there is a war between good aliens and evil
aliens, and he also said that we can't see them.
So it made me thinking.What if,these beings that you can see when you are out of your body, are at war?Maybe we can't see them because we are
currently at very low spiritually level?Maybe our real eyes(mind) is closed?

I don't really have any hard evidence, except assumption, but it's still interesting.

I see a world with advanced telepathy, sensitivity and caring for others, not rules, not a system of law, virtues and high human rights, with no money
or slavery, but complete equality and abundance and ensuring everyone, the elderly, the handicapped, and even those who are struggling with problems,
depressions, or those with children, all are equally supported, all with food, full stomachs, homes, beauty and opportunities. High education.
Anything you dream of can be done, with volunteers, for there are no cost analysis needed. Doing the right thing is always sought.

And then I was thinking, well if its truly run like that with only some things global, and regional, but local counsels and input from citizens, who
are not retaliatory and do not harm or punish others. What do you do if some people start abusing the system, want the best spots, and like to
exclude others, what do you do if they think they can set up inequality on local levels?

Then I thought, hmmm... wouldn't you arrange a separate downgraded territory that still gave the ability to escape, to advance, to correct ones mind
in, to grow beyond to higher levels, that was still beautiful and still had lots of nourishment and goodness, not too bad, but harder,till they
overcome it, rather than prison. But it would have easy outs, in my books, easy rescues for people? It sure would be more merciful than prison, than
and far more instructive.

Then I realized. Oh dear. Thats what earth is like isn't it? Except we don't have fast enough outs, I would never allow horrible things to
happen to people and rescue them immediately.

I think you may have something there Flexy. The Xtraterrestrial argument just doesn't make much sense. Interstellar distances are just too far for
these guys to be showing up here in such small craft. And what's with all their shenanigans ? All the light shows, erratic movements, aerial
acrobatics...etc. Just doesn't seem to me that if they can travel interstellar / intergalactic distances, why the need for all the pretty lights ? To
what purpose ? Wouldn't they have stealth technology ? Interdimensional makes much more sense to me.
I think that a lot of the craft that are seen are actually our technology...reverse engineered or not.
But you are right in saying that we may never know.
Thanks for the post. Very thought-provoking.
Noro

Yes thanks for a very well crafted thread, that leads each person to consider the views that have taken you time and effort to simmer through. I will
add to what you say in a very simplistic manner, which may be of help. I like the word dimentions, because a room has dimestions. I believe we are all
living in a multi level space full of rooms. if we only stay in one room, those that abide in the other rooms rarely pay us a visit. If we say we are
the only ones, egocentric view, why would they bother? Compassion perhaps.It may be a case of us discovering the other rooms, same as on earth.
explore then decide.
There is a story that covers this.

Once upon a time, there lived a frog in a nice, deep well. It had lived there for a long time. It was born there and brought up there. This frog,
every day fed on the worms and bacilli that lived in the water of the well, and became a fat frog with a lot of energy. Well, one day another frog
that lived in the sea came and fell into the well. Our well frog asked the sea frog, "Where are you from?" "I am from the sea." Answered the sea
frog "The sea!" exclaimed the well frog, "How big is that? Is it as big as my well?", and he took a leap from one side of the well to the other.
"My friend", said the sea frog, "how do you compare the sea with your little well?" Then the well frog took another leap and asked, "Is your sea
so big?" The shocked sea frog exclaimed "What nonsense you speak, to compare the sea with your well!" "Well, Well," said the well frog,
"nothing can be bigger than my well; there can be nothing bigger than this; He then shouted, "this fellow is a liar, turn him out."

Originally posted by The GUT
A broad survey of the phenomenon throughout history would seem to demand that the hypotheses put forth by the incomparable Jacques Vallee and other
serious researchers must needs be seriously considered.

My years spent delving into the subject finally led me to believe that some form of the interdimensional hypothesis fits all the data much better than
the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

I agree as well but, isn't there the possibility of both forms existing, not just one hypothesis or the other? In Leslie Keane book, she interviews
military officials, pilots and commercial pilots and not all of their sightings are the same. Especially, if I remember correctly, the commercial
pilot from England who saw two massive aircraft both over a mile in diameter or long (im not sure if it was a cigar shaped craft or circular).
Wouldn't you say that sighting might be more extraterrestrial than inter-dimensional? Again I do agree that there is an inter-dimensional factor in
all of this, in fact I would go as far to say that everything we believe in stems from that in some way, negative and positive. However I think both
hypothesis' are correct and I also agree with the OP when he states that this is far more complex than any of us realize, past and present. Hopefully
in the future we can gain a better understanding of this phenomena in all its forms.

I don't know whether this is true or not( probably imposable to know) but I read somewhere that,the Universe is a mega consciousness (The source)
that is made up of Trillions and Trillions of smaller consciousness's all with different experience's, positive/negative, love/hate and so on but
since we all are one with this conscious, we in turn are the frame work of the Universe itself. When I say "we" I don't mean just the 7 billion
people on the planet plus animals and sentient life, I mean everything in the universe that has a consciousness. As far as I know the mind is the only
thing that can create nothing from something. As massive as the universe is, physically speaking, the mind itself is infinite. Could There be ETs or
inter-dimensional beings that are nothing but pure consciousness? Sorry for the rant just thinking out loud before I hit the bed.

Halfway through your post, I found myself reading with approval, and thinking ‘hmm... this one could well deserve a star and flag from me.’ I was
impressed by your account of the similarities between reports of religious and mystical experiences on the one hand and alien and UFO experiences on
the other.

Unfortunately, you missed the obvious import of this and plumped instead for some far-fetched explanation concerning mysterious pan-dimensional beings
and ancient astronaut wisdom.

Consider, again, the obvious: aliens and UFOs as a sociological phenomenon have been with us since the 1950s. Thousands, perhaps millions of sightings
and encounters have been reported. Yet there is a great deal of inconsistency and disagreement among these reports and we have, to date, no undeniable
physical evidence of UFOs and aliens.

This clearly suggests that the phenomenon is a psychological one. I thought your post was going to address that aspect of things, and perhaps present
us with an interesting or at least amusing new insight or hypothesis in connexion with it.

Sadly, that was not to be. You chose the ‘this is really happening!!!’ route instead, leaving us none the wiser.

No flag or star from me, then. But I am sure there will be plenty of both from others.

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