My mom just told me yesterday that she wants grandchildren and expects me to deliver because according to her, my oldest little brother cannot take care of children, my little sister is probably going to get married with an egyptian and then she won't know the children and my youngest little brother if probably gay (what the fizzle. he's 9. if he's gay she has NO IDEA what kind of person he will end up being. I mean gay or not, he has not exactly formed an adult personality yet and gay people can have babies!). I told her that right now all I want to do is become an architect. Whenever I've tried pulling the career-card, she says "I have 4 children and I have a career". And it's really hard to not say "Yeah, that's not exactly what I mean when I say career..". Of course you can have a career AND babies, but hey, right now I don't think I'll choose that.

It's strange because a while back she told me that she'd given up on me ever having babies. Guess that was not entirely true..

I'm 32 and my partner is 27. We've been together for three years and neither one of us has a strong desire to have children. I spend much more time with my coworkers than they spend with their children, and I think the division of labor in modern life (add post-s as necessary) is not conducive to reproduction. My partner also has a genetic autoimmune disorder that he doesn't want to pass on. I wouldn't have a kid in various institutions for the mere pleasure of passing on my DNA. I have an eight-year-old niece who is awesome and I like children. I think people need a solid reason to have children, and I've never understood the whole instant knowing and wanting to make and raise babies. One day I may look into having foster kids with mental health diagnoses. Although I think there are genetic components to what most call "mental illness" I think a lot of it is trauma and attempting to adapt to a pretty crazy and forked up society.

My husband and I would have liked very much to have had children, but we have chosen not to.

We are low income - one bedroom apartment, no car, no savings and much debt- this will change but by then we'll be much too old.

We both also suffer from mental illness . We also are both low energy introverted home bodies and know without a doubt that raising a child would be much too stressful for us. We are nurturing types and would love the bones off our child, however a child needs and deserves more than love, in our opinion.

When we came to this decision it was a full year of grieving and bargaining, an accidental pregnancy had made us aware that we were still fertile. It's been a really difficult year - to put it mildly, but we know we made the right choice. It would have been irresponsible to bring a child into this world who most likely would have inherited our temperament. And we are not equipped to handle the stress of caring for a baby without support while living paycheque to paycheque.

We don't see it as fair, we would like to be different people, and have the opportunity to have a family. But life is not fair. We know our limitations,the choice was right for us.

A year after the abortion we are doing much better, it was devastatingly painful for a very long time, but we are recovering, and even looking forward to a life with just the two of us.

Interestingly, we were both adamantly childfree by choice before that pregnancy - I think for us, pregnancy brought out something quite primal in both of us.

We now consider ourselves childless by choice, as opposed to childfree.

_________________I would eat Dr. Cow pocket cheese in a second. I would eat it if you hid it under your hat, or in your backpack, but not if it was in your shoe. That's where I draw the line. -allularpunk

Ugh, yeah, that happens at my work all the time. Luckily I established pretty early on that I am not the person who's going to stay late and clean up after people. My job is just a job for me, not a career, and I have no interest in living to work.

Hello, childless thread! I've never wanted kids. I told my mom when I was 5 that I wasn't going to have any babies, and people were like, "you need to set her straight," but my mom just said I could do whatever I wanted, because my mom is awesome. My feeling never changed. I'm about to turn 30 next month and I've been through a lot of reproductive drama in the last year (failed IUD, ectopic pregnancy, surgical abortion and sterilization with nearly fatal complications) and now after all of it I literally can't have kids, partly by choice and partly by necessity. While it's not how I would've preferred to get here, I'm 100% happy with being sterile. Thankfully my family and friends have never given me crepe about my decision, and my boyfriend and I are on the same page. A couple of dogs will be enough parental (and financial) responsibility for us.

Sorry, but I honed in on this because you need to get a dog like yesterday.

_________________"The Tree is His Penis"

The tree is his penis // it's very exciting // when held up to his mouth // the lights are all lighting // his eyes start a-bulging // in unbridled glee // the tree is his penis // its beauty, effulgent -amandabear

Sorry, but I honed in on this because you need to get a dog like yesterday.

I KNOW. We just don't have room right now. We're hoping to move into a bigger place sometime at the end of this year/early next year, and pretty much immediately upon arrival I will be adopting a dog. I might not even move my stuff in first.

Thanks for this. This kind of subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) discrimination is rife in my workplace, and it drives me insane.

Yes. My work is pretty cool about flexibility for everyone, not just those with kids, but I think sometimes in my mind I'm kind of defensive about it, you know? So instead of leaving early to take the kids to swim lessons, I leave early to get my highlights touched up and that makes it better to me. However, I don't have the guts to say "leaving to get blonded up" like I would "leaving to take little jenny to piano." But I promise you, so help the person who says I can stay late because I elected not to have children...Fisticuffs.

The day I actually let myself admit that I did not want to have children was a very freeing and empowering day. My husband and I have been together for 14 years and it is definitely the right decision for us. All of my siblings have had multiple children and I have 18 nieces/nephews now. I love being an aunt and it suits me just fine! And there is no pressure at all from my family, they have plenty of kids to go around.I still love and go gaga over babies and I spoil my "kids" rotten when I have the chance. It took me a few years to get past the idea that you're "supposed" to have kids because that's what everyone does/expects. But now that I've made it known and embraced it, I can finally relax.And I can't wait until my nieces/nephews are old enough to come stay with me without their parents and I take them to get their first tattoo and watch them turn into rad adults and change the world! Cause they totally will...some of them at least. ;)

I had a moment of frustration a few days ago.I'm pretty open about not wanting kids, and voicing support for women who are questioning the notion of becoming a parent. I was talking to a coworker and said that some people make very personal, derisive comments to me and other women who don't want kids. She got really exasperated, rolled her eyes, and said, "Oh, Jesus, who is saying this stuff to you? I don't believe you, you're just exaggerating." I told her it was very common, and she said, "Whatever, no one really says that stuff." She became a parent under traditional circumstances (planned, within a marriage, the same age as her peers who were starting families at the time, et cetera), and it made me angry that she completely dismissed the experiences of others because she herself did not share the experience.

Guh. A friend of mine has been bugging me about having kids lately. He recently messaged me asking me when my boyfriend is going to knock me up. I didn't reply, hoping the hint would be taken. When I talked with him later about our new apartment, and how we are hoping to buy a house in the future, he brought it up again. I said that kids weren't really on the table right now, hoping that would end it, but he persisted, until I really blatantly changed the subject.

I love this guy, and I know he doesn't mean anything by it, but holy shiitake, DUDE, GET OFF MY JOCK ABOUT BABIES.

It actually really bugs me, because it put me in such an awkward situation, with a person I care about. I don't want to be put in a situation where I feel like I have to either lay the smackdown or suck up something I shouldn't have to suck up, particularly with a close friend.

_________________If you spit on my food I will blow your forking head off, you filthy shitdog. - MumblesDon't you know that vegan meat is the gateway drug to chicken addiction? Because GMO and trans-fats. - kaerlighed

one of my close friends (who i also work with) just had her first kid. my best friend is getting married next summer and she's already planning out the baby stuff. i'm happy for them and everything, but... i don't want our relationships to change. i don't want to have to plan stuff around the kids nor my social life with them to revolve around the kids. it will, though and... jeeze i wonder if as get further into my 20's i'll end up gravitating towards making friends with people who also don't want to have the whole family life thing.

I managed to largely avoid this til recently with most of my friends but sometimes you think you have made friends with people of a like mind and things change.

I lost touch with school friends who had kids early til their kids were a bit older but we were only in sporadic contact then anyway. One close friend had a baby (when I was in my 30's) and again we lost touch while the child was small as she was all about the baby but once he got bigger we got close again. She got accidentally pregnant with her second child during a fling after her marriage broke up and that was the first time I had to be up close and personal with a friend's pregnancy and baby/child (he's 7 now). We have remained close but that has a lot to do with the value she places on her friends now she is a single parent as well as the tendency to be a bit more laid back with a second baby when you're older. We work things so I come over just before the younger child goes to bed, then we get to spend quality time late into the evening and where possible part of the next day after the school drop off.

I thought I was in safe and settled territory with my long term friends, having reached my forties, but break ups and new relationships have thrown things into new territory and people who were resolutely child-free have formed relationships with younger people who want children. One such friend had a baby last year and we've hardly seen them since and another couple we're very close to are now talking about starting a family and even moving out of London to do it.

I don't hate kids but I do get bored of them after a while - I find them exhausting and they don't seem to realise I'm there to see and speak to their parents not play with them! But often it's the parents who change and that's why we drift apart.

Almost two years ago our close friends adopted an 18 month old child and it totally changed our relationship. They were basically out of the loop for a year, unwilling to leave the child in the evenings or have people round because that would be too noisy. Eventually they have started socialising occasionally but things aren't springing back to how they were between us. I was especially close to one of the couple and she was at home looking after the child four days a week so we tried to meet up regularly, especially at the start - I didn't especially want to interact with the child but I didn't want to abandon my friend when her life was changing so rapidly, she'd given up her job etc so I made a huge effort with them both. It has been really difficult though. Whenever the child is awake, which is most of the time unless I manage to get there while she's having a nap, it is all about her and my friend and I basically can't get any adult chat in at all. It's so sad, I feel like we've lost our friendship, for now at least. I've kind of given up making the effort to see her cos I get nothing out of it and she isn't bothering either cos now she has made friendships with other parents and has a hectic timetable of baby yoga, story time at the library etc taking up her time.

So now I'm having this weird thing where I see hot guys with babies and I'm like ooohhhhh from some deep animal core within me. It's funny, because it's not like I want the baby, or the baby with the guy, and I still feel totally confident that I made the right decision in getting myself sterilized. But now that I guess I'm entering "that age" (I'm 33) where the ticking of biological clocks starts getting very loud, I'm totally cool with (and even a little excited by?) babies when I see them. I still have no interest in one of my own. But now I'm like, "yay, babies!" whereas before I would have been like "meh."

But anyway, yesterday I saw a very handsome guy with a close-cropped salt-and-pepper haircut toting a little bean in a baby bjorn through BART and I was like HOT DAYUM. Then I texted my boyfriend about how I want to jump his bones.

I've always found men who are good with children to be deeply attractive, whether or not I've wanted to have children (because that fluctuates with me). My dude is pretty resolutely anti having babies (which I'm a ok with), but he's still good with kids, and I find it really sexy. Biology is weird. (I'm assuming that's biology.)

_________________But if one were to tickle Pluto, I suspect that it might very quietly laugh. - pandacookie

55k usd is like 4 cad or whatever equivalent in beavers you use on the island - joshua

Yeah, biology is weird! I totally understand that weird primal feeling, it's completely separate from my intellect, rationality or reason. So I understand how some people just NEED to have children, that feeling must be really strong for them. Fortunately for me and my wishes, it only comes on so infrequently, and I still rationally know that I don't actually want children, even if my body does sometimes.

eta: Also, what is it with hot guys with grey/silver in their hair? It just makes a hot guy even hotter.

_________________Did you notice the slight feeling of panic at the words "Chicken Basin Street"? Like someone was walking over your grave? Try not to remember. We must never remember. - mumblesIs this about devilberries and nazifruit again? - footface

But now that I guess I'm entering "that age" (I'm 33) where the ticking of biological clocks starts getting very loud, I'm totally cool with (and even a little excited by?) babies when I see them. I still have no interest in one of my own. But now I'm like, "yay, babies!" whereas before I would have been like "meh."

Interesting. I am in my mid forties and have never had the sensation of a biological clock at all (nor have most of my child-free friends to any significant degree) so I don't think it is inevitable. I do have a friend who had cooing over babies phases but she knew they were phases and she just allowed herself to go through them without suddenly worrying that she ought to have a baby because she knew it would always pass. I think being caring and not afraid to show a softer side is very attractive in a man. These men pushing prams with one hand exasperate me.

Ha, seriously! My dude has salt and pepper hair and I recently thought I saw hair dye in a shopping bag and was like, 'Dude, noooooo!' and then was promptly told to chill because it actually a set of clippers for his sexy s&p facial scruff.

_________________But if one were to tickle Pluto, I suspect that it might very quietly laugh. - pandacookie

55k usd is like 4 cad or whatever equivalent in beavers you use on the island - joshua