10/26/2009

NEWS AND NOTES

--There was a long article about JoePa in this week's SI. As you know, PSU isn't really my cup of tea, but I'm doing a good deed and passing this along in case you Nittany Lion fans haven't seen it yet. Forgive me, Panther fans. [SI.com]

--Passing along a press release of interest to many of you from the NFL...I know I will be watching:

Styx's "RENEGADE" has become a Steelers Nation fight song. . .how did it happen? Find out this week, as "NFL Films Presents" tells the true story of the “birth of Renegade”. . .featuring interviews with Mike Tomlin, Ben Roethlisberger and "Renegade" song-writer, Styx's own Tommy Shaw.

91 comments:

I hope this happens so Pitt can beat that ass and refuse to play Poop state again until someone with a brain runs the program and agrees to have a natural state rivalry like every other big football state does...plus there will be some great pre and post game fights between fans...pitt wins

I'm not a PSU fan, or a Pitt fan. Follow them both a little bit, though. I also may be too young to see them as rivals, because I don't recall them ever having played each other.

That being said, I think that would be a great game against two fairly even and very different teams, and the game atmosphere out in AZ or even dahn Sahside would be electric. I really hope it does happen, but until then, enough with the "rivalry back-and-forth". It ruins the comments field on all these posts and makes us all look worse than Philly fans. PSU has more history and a more storied program, but Pitt seems to consistently field solid teams. Good teams, good game, that's it.

I'd love to see Pitt beat Penn State, but I also have fun every year watching a team from the Small Ten Conference go to Pasadena and prove what a joke they really are by getting smoked in the Rose Bowl.

9 national championships Pitt has so you can have all the wins in the weak big 10...every penn st fan I know wants to play pitt for the rivalry and proximity so adam my son, looks like you my boy, are the only one who doesnt want a rivalry... I bet you love as a fan playing bottom feeders like Akron to make you feel good..may it be that when we beat up on penn st that you cant take the heat..

NickDawg,Um...yeah...every Pitt fan I know knows those NCs aren't legit. Marino's in '78 was, but beyond that it's a crapshoot, and any real Pitt fan knows that. They also cringe at that stupid banner at Heinz Field that has a bunch of BCS National Championship trophies on it because, well, the BCS is less than 20 years old, and Pitt (nor Penn State to be fair) doesn't actually own a single trophy that resembles those ones.

-You wanna play OOC games? Ok, let's look at the numbers:1. Pitt plays 5 OOC games to Penn State's 4. Since we're talking "bottom feeders" here, and because Pitt has more flexibility to schedule good OOC teams by having an extra game, we'll thow out Pitt's best, which is Navy at 6-2. We'll also throw out the I-AAs of Eastern Illinois and YSU, because their records are irrelevent; they should be beaten no matter what.

Pitt's OOC: NC State (3-4), Buffalo (3-5), and Notre Dame (5-2).

Penn State's OOC: Akron (1-6), Syracuse (3-4), and Temple(5-2).

Same number if losing teams, same number of winning teams. And remember who's playing Alabama next year...(hint: it isn't Pitt)

-Proximity is only in your mind. While there are a lot of Penn Staters living in the Pittsburgh area, the vast majority live in areas like Philly, New York, and the Beltway. What reason have they to care about Pitt? Absolutely none. The only Penn Staters that strongly dislike Pitt are people like me: Pittsburghers. But Pittsburghers alone do not make a rivalry. A generation of Penn Staters have graduated without Pitt being anymore than a passing presence, so explain to me why they should care now?

I'm a Pitt fan, and I'm willing to concede that PSU would probably beat Pitt 8 out of 10 or 9 out of 10 times. That being said, those 1 or 2 wins Pitt would get would be so incredibly sweet, it would more than make up for the other losses.

I don't get why Joe Pa wouldnt want to play Pitt, esp. if it'd be an easy win for his perennial powerhouse.

Dear Mav,The JoePa myth has been perpetuated by sour, old Pitt fans who try to act as though they aren't old and sour by calling Joe old and sour.

The truth is it's all about the Benjamins baby. Penn State Athletics, in order to remain self-sufficient from the University and taxpayer funds (and Pitt fans like yourself), needs at least 7 home games per season to support the other 29 varsity sports we field. This means we can't be involved in more than one home-and-home series with a major BCS level opponent at a time. It simply doesn't behoove Penn State to have that home-and-home series be against Pitt every year. We have games with Alabama, Nebraska, Virginia, and Rutgers lined up at the moment, and I for one like the variety.

If Pitt can keep it's act together like it seems to have now, then they might just find themselves on Penn State's schedule soon. But even then, it won't be an annual event like it used to. Penn State is in a conference now, and wants some variety with the precious few OOC games it can schedule. It's not sour graps, its just commons sense.

thanks for the synopsis but 9 is 9 buddy..and you made my point exactly..i would love to can a crappy ooc team to play and restart an in-state rivaly..the fact that penn st plays 7 home games is hilarious, thats why they will never get any respect...penn st takes an elitist view (and by the way there is nothing elite about any facet of penn st sports or academics) that they need to schedule more home games to be self sufficient..thats bull and 90% of schools if not more simply dont do that..i know plenty of penn st fans both family and friends and friends of friends that want this game to happen so regardless if a generation hasnt seen the game, it would be a worthwhile event and they do care now. Notice how you are the only penn st fan saying this on the pittsburgh blogs..show me where all these penn st fans are that oppose the game and take an elitist view as your self and I promise you my son you wont get further than the mirror

@NickDawg"the fact that penn st plays 7 home games is hilarious, thats why they will never get any respect"

Almost every BCS team schedules at leats 7 home games. Even your Pitt Panthers. It's just the way the system is. Your comment looks really dumb consider the entire top 5 do the same thing.

Also, you can trash the Big 10 all you want but we still get 10 times more respect than the Big East, it's not even close.

@Steve

Since you aren't quite up to this reading thing I'll help you out. The person who said PSU would win 9 out of 10 times, began his comment by saying he was a Pitt fan. Most people read left to right and up to down, although apparently some start in the middle and just assume what the rest says.

The fact is this, PSU is considered a better football school by everyone, writers, fans, recruits, analysts.

As a Pitt fan, I really don't care about Penn State. Adam and I jobbed each other on this topic a bit last year, and it was actually a pretty good natured exchange (though he took offense to me calling it 'State Clown College').

My point is, we have West Virginia and Cincy looming on the schedule, which are much bigger than a hypothetical Penn State matchup. Let's focus on that, and to a lesser extent, rivalry games with Cuse and the Domers.

Let Caesar have what is Caesar's and ditto for Joe Pa and Mr. Wannstedt.

The four remaining games on the schedule will define the future of the program more than barbs about football games played two or three decades ago.

I personally like the Pitt/PSU matchup because we had our family reunions at the games, but as for them playing, neither one needs the other. I think it speaks more though that one old man with too much power is responsible for the two not meeting anymore. In a way I'm thankful because Pitt's main focus (finally) is on WVU as a rival.

That said, the biggest joke was the NCAA adding the 12th game, it just gave most programs the chance to gobble up more money, cry poor, and schedule cupcakes. They all do it, but the sad thing is some can fill up stadiums on it, so why would they ever play?

Clint Pitts - big 10 is a joke all around. There is 3 ok teams the rest garbage plus they cant beat anyone in any bowl games let alone BCS games. Who in the last 10 yrs has put out more pros pitt or penn st? Pitt by far so to say the big 10 gets more respect is asinine. The thing all you penn staters are ignorant too is that the rest of the county enjoys seeing you get stomped by the pac-10 or sec every yr when you think penn st is good for beating on the weak big 10. I dare to say the big east has been way better than the big 10 the last three yrs by far in football and especially hoops.

I am a Pitt fan, but will try to be as logical as possible!! University of Penn State's front 7 does not have an answer for Dion Lewis &/or Henry Hynoski... #27 &#28 are just too good. University of Penn State's secondary would also never be able to match-up with the heighth of J. Baldwin or Oderick Turner. If they did choose to try to double Baldwin or Turner, Dorin Dickerson would be too much to handle in the middle of the field. In the event that DD couldn't get open Nate Byham would be there. The fact is Pitt has waaaay too much offense. As far as the other side of the ball, Romeus, Sheard, Mick, and Mustakas would cause too much havoc for Darryl Clark and Evan Royster. The ground game would never get going. Darryl Clark would have a better chance scoring a 700 on the SAT's than figuring out the rush. University of Penn State's receivers are also not physical enough to play with Dom DeCicco, Elijah Fields, Jovani Chappel, or Aaron Berry. In fairness, UPS usually does have a good kicker, so I will give UPS the advantage in the kicking game....

In short...When Pitt has the ball... Advantage PittWhen UPS has the ball... Advantage Pitt

I have heard PSU fans say that comment and I apologize. It is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Our season ended on a happy note yours ended as on a bad one but that doesn't put our program anywhere close to yours.

@NickDawg

"There is 3 ok teams the rest garbage"

We'll ignore the English and focus on the argument in general. The Big 10 (like every other conference this year) isn't looking good but Iowa is #4, PSU is #12, and OSU is #17. Little bit more than OK. The bottom of our conference most years, Northwestern, Indiana, and Minnesota tend to be garbage but every conference has those.

"Who in the last 10 yrs has put out more pros pitt or penn st? Pitt by far so to say the big 10 gets more respect is asinine."

Good job Clint Pitts. Although shooting down 90% of Nickdawg's made up statistics isn't too terribly difficult. Nevertheless... well done.

Can we all agree that it's senseless to discuss a football 'rivalry' that has only been played 4 times since 1992? And it's even more ignorant to pretend that there's anything to talk about during hoop rockin season. Winning the NIT means you finished 66th in basketball that season. Last time that i checked it was better to finish 5th-8th than 66th... not even close, comrads.

The fact is that neither program needs this 'rivalry'. That doesn't make either program 'chicken' or 'scared-ee cats', that's just the way the business is. Would i love to see a pitt-psu bowl game? You bet your a$$ i would! Don't get lost in the 'stache, pitt vs psu would be a good, competitive matchup this season. At least it would be better than watching another 7-31 at the half or 3-0 final game!!!

I would admit that Penn State is more of a 'football school' than Pitt.

I don't know what that means if the two were to play, or how many teams on PSU's schedule are actually 'football schools'. Michigan and Ohio State definitely, but you have to really stretch after that.

Agree that neither need each other, but I do find it fascinating the article comes from a Penn State writer in Altoona.

The well hungarian..couldnt describe the potential dismantling better... hope to see them in the fiesta bowl or see them get stomped on by usc again...

as for clint pitts aka "the grammar teacher".. my statistic may have been off (not by much though) stat boy but what you didnt list list is who those draft picks are and what they turned out to be because all or most of them work at the place i get my car washed...what I meant to say was pitt puts out more quality pros..im sure your proud to be affiliated with the likes of Kerry Collins and KiJana Carter, and Levi brown...we are fine over here in Oakland putting out players who actually matter in the pros like Shady, Fitz, Revis, Otah, sessions, blades, bryant, etc.....to name a few...playmakers is what pitt puts out not car washers...back to your regulary scheduled program

The only people making real sense here are those saying this isn't really a rivalry. I'm a huge Panther guy, went to Pitt, blah blah but I just don't feel the burning need to play PSU--it's just inferiority complex stuff.

I like making fun of their 90-year-old coach and all of the excuse-making fans, but really what's the difference? I'll stick with my hatred of anything and everything WVU--at least we play them every year in every sport, not just the ones "convenient" for them (aka ones they won't lose in). It actually means something a lot of times, too.

Morelli went 9-4 twice here and won two bowl games, which is much more than can be said of the entire Pitt program during that time. Don't tell me you're glad he didn't go to Pitt. Even his worst daya at Penn State was better than anything Pitt has experienced in the least 25 years plus.

@Adam - Sorry, but i went to PSU when Morelli was QB. And to hear anything remotely positive about him tears me apart inside!!! Those teams went 9-4 in spite of the worst quarterback i've ever seen at any level since pop warner. His worst day & his best day are both worse than Rod Rutherford's... and that ain't sayin much! I HATED HAVING TO WATCH MORELLI CONSISTENTLY F UP ON SATURDAYS!!!

@NickDawg - Congrats! You finally posted something factual. Nigerian Nightmare is indeed the second dumbest poster on here. A bust is a bust regardless of injury (See K.Carter, M. Haynes), but you're still wrong about the pitt drafts vs psu drafts in the last ten years. The 'facts' that you present for your agruement are soft. You could compare our bests/worsts at each position drafted over the last 10 yrs. But you chose to make rediculous claims with no backup instead. Granted, Larry Fitz & Revis are studs, but PSU has graduated some great professional players too. I'm not going to go down the players list by list (i could name busts & steals from PSU drafts), but the fact that the top of your list included Shady (who likely will be have a good career), shows your homerism. His NFL career is 7-8 games long. Nothing can be predicted yet.

@Nigerian Nightmare - I see that you can list players from the roster and then add 'can't be stopped' afterwards. Nicely done. That just shows your ignorance. No team is unbeatable, no player is unstoppable. Some teams are stronger than others, like NC State is to Pitt. So it appears as though your list on names are indeed human.

Adam- The records in this decade are very similiar, PSU even up a game. You would think that they would be up much more considering that Penn State plays in a weaker conference and schedules weaker non-conference opponents. Also, Pitt changed coaches and playing styles during this decade which created down years between 2005-2007.

Got to agree with HomeRun, I hated Morelli. We went 9-4 because of our defense in spite of our offense.

@Well Hungarian

I thought your prediction was a joke so I didn't bother responding. A defense that averages less than 9 pts/game and has 2 All-American LBs along with a pretty good defensive line, would have no answer for a freshman tailback who was held to 79 yards by Navy?!? I like Dion Lewis and think he's good but come on now, it's not Dorsett.

Also, why would we need to double Oderick Turner, he has 18 catches, he's not a threat. Baldwin is a threat but it's not like he's Moss. He would get double teamed on passing downs but that's it.

Your defense is good but it buts nothing special. I will even say it matches up evenly with our offense. But when our defense is on the field we would clearly have an advantage.

"Penn State plays in a weaker conference and schedules weaker non-conference opponents."

In that time our out OOC opponents have been: USC, Miami, Nebraska, Boston College, and Notre Dame. In the next 4 years we play Alabama, Virginia and Rutgers. Not exactly weak OOC opponents.

Like almost every BCS team, PSU schedules 1 cupcake, 2 mid majors and 1 solid OOC game. The past 2 seasons its been Syracuse. So we took 2 seasons off but it's not like we're that much worse than every other team.

Also the Big Ten may be weak compared to the SEC and Pac-10 over the past few seasons, but the bowl games we're losing aren't to Big East teams. We're still considered a tougher conference than the Big East.

@ HomeRun.....what the hell are you talking about. I didn't say a single word about players that can't be stopped or make any kind of list. I haven't actually added a word to this Pitt/PSU argument besides making fun of NickDawg for obvious reasons. For the record, PSU would win.

Baldwin is a very good receiver but he's not so incredible that no defense can shut him down, hell almost no receiver since a good pass rush can ruin a passing game(Giants vs. Pats Super Bowl). He was held to 1 catch by Rutgers and only has 3 TDs this year, he's not Jerry Rice quite yet.

i don't know man, 6' 5" & 225lbs is about as unstoppable as they come in college & Stull is learning how to use him, but I do agree he can be stopped. My point though is I don't think Penn State has the personnel to stop him. If they did "sell-out" to stop him, that leaves Dorin Dickerson un-accounted for in the middle of the field and also opens up the ground game for Dion Lewis.

Meatballs:Look, Morelli is a douche. I'm not denying that. And I'm not even saying I'm pleased with how things went during his time here. We had some big opportunities and he blew just about every single one of them. That said, I think we can both agree that any Pitt fan who think he has a leg to stand on while talking smack on the guy is a complete idiot. He turned them down, and he won football games for us while Pitt sucked. Could he have won more games for us if he was more competent? Absolutely. But even someone with his skill could have elevated those awful Pitt teams, and that's all I'm saying.

Dear NickDawg:24-7-1

Dear Hungarian,"Playing styles"?

And I could draw up an arbitrary timeline during which we kicked your ass, but I'm not going to do that because what happened at the beginning of the decade is completely irrelevent. The players on the field now are all that matter, and the players playing for us won a Big Ten Championship and two bowl games. Any further back than 3, maybe 4 years is in the past, and has nothing to do with today, and the players on the field for us today have accomplished far more than any of Pitt's.

Morelli would've done much less at Pitt than he did at PSU--he had a very talented collection of weapons and did not "excel" (yes they won 9 games but we mostly agree that wasn't any of Morelli's doing). Pitt's receivers and backs were weaker during that window--in fact, one of the few players I would've taken from Pitt over PSU during those times were the QBs, yes that means Palko.

Yes, I very badly wanted Morelli to come to Pitt and was ticked off badly when he didn't. Then, I watched him perform and realize he certainly wouldn't have been an upgrade at that spot.

Is there nothing more important right now regarding Pittsburgh sports than this Pitt-Penn State drivel? Wasn't this news and notes bit posted last week already? I hear Tyler Kennedy won't play tonight, that's at least something.

bill stull is better than clark ... wannstedt has better bladder control than paterno ... true frosh lewis is better than 7th year senior royster who is only playing until he gets caught raping a co-ed

Judging by the comments Mondesi, a Pitt - Penn St. post is like shooting fish in a barrel. 65 posts and counting... While their respective records might provoke flashbacks to the early 1980's, neither program "needs" each other in 2009. That said, a potential bowl matchup would surely embolden the smack talkers on the message boards. Maybe that would be a good thing to end these incessant Pitt-Penn St. posts. I really feel bad for Adam because it is painfully evident that he derives his entire self worth through Penn St. football. When people use "we" or "us" to refer to their favorite team, you know you are dealing with a FANATIC in the true sense of the word.

I eat what Penn State feeds me. I sleep where Penn State houses me. This is my home, and the 40,000 other people that live here are my family. That includes people like Daryll Clark and Evan Royster, but it also includes the lady that drives the shuttle that takes me to class, the guy who gives me my donuts at the HUB, and the instructors who work their asses off to give me every opportunity to have a great future.

Our family gets the chance to come together as one a handful of times every fall, and that's to watch this football team. Football games aren't just about football for us, and that's why you see 110,000 people show up for games against the Akrons and Eastern Illinois's of the world. There's something greater going on here, and football is how we celebrate it.

We Are ALL Penn State, and unless you've walked in my shoes and lived what this place is all about, you're in no position to tell me how I evaluate my self-worth.

Adam, I graduated in 2000 with 2 degrees from Penn St. -main campus all 4 years, lived in Shunk Hall my freshman year. I just happen to be one of the few people at the school that did not drink the Kool-Aid regarding JoePa or Penn St. football. I grew up in household of die-hard Pitt fans so I see both sides of the arguments objectively. I loved the university and the education, but I am able to look at things rationally and separate education from a football or basketball program. I have walked in your shoes and all over that place for 15 minute walks to class.

I say we for everything. Steelers, Penguins, hell even my high school team. As a fan I feel a part of the team. I don't think when I tell people 'We won the Stanley Cup', they think I mean I was playing along side Crosby and Malkin. Some people just use different language but as long as no one is dumb enough to assume I'm a player on the team, just part of it as a fan, then there is not really harm in it.

Dallas Mike,I don't care what you did here, you don't have any right to tell me that my entire life is wrapped around Penn State football because I refer to them as "we". Got it? You don't know me, and you made the argument personal, and it was completely out of bounds.

Hungarian,Pitt's offensive line is solid but unproven. Our front seven includes two first team All-Big 10 guys and an All-American. Not sure Rutgers or UCONN is bringing that to the table when stopping Lewis.

As for the Second Coming, he has 16 less receptions than Eric Decker who came in here and caught exactly one ball. I wasn't afraid of Decker, and I'm definitely not afraid of Baldwin.

Pitt might score their points, I'll give you that, but to say 38-7 is blatantly homeristic and you know it.

I was looking more for a particular scheme or player that Penn State would use to stop Baldwin and if they were able to stop Baldwin how they would stop Dickerson and Pitt's other weapons. I agree, 38-7 is a bit homeristic on my part, but the way the two teams match-up, Pitt would beat them handedly. Let's hope we can see it....

WellHungarian, what do you want us to call the plays? They'll do what they always do. Run the 4-3, occasionally blitz linebackers and on passing downs play nickel and probably shade a safety to Baldwin since he's the main threat and the other WR don't need to be doubled.

Baldwin is a good WR, especially for a Soph. but to call him unstoppable and act like he could beat any defense thrown at him is ridculous. Same with Lewis. Very good young players but it's not like its they haven't been shutdown this season by defenses much worse than Penn State's.

@Burgh

There are 76 comments on this board and somehow Adam is the only guy accused of being too passionate for a team or university. We're all on here arguing a game that has a 95% change of not happening in the next 10 years. We're all a little too involved in our teams. But that's what makes it fun.

Plus to say we care too much about Penn State on a blog that shows pictures of people with Terrible Towels on Mount Everest?!? If anything this blog is one of the few places that its celebrated to care about a logo on a jersey too much. Quit trying to act your above all of this stuff.

Dallas's comment got deleted before I could see so I can't comment on that one.

So you obviously enjoy sports but feel the need to judge how much passion another person can have for their team. Plus, you feel the need to make comments telling other people they care too much and use sign offs like 'Yawn' and 'Carry On' to show how above this you are. Not an elitist at all Burgh.

No one ever says anything critical about that even though "let's" is a contraction for "Let us." So where are "we" going? Onto victory I suppose.

Professional sports, or in this case an "amateur" sport that charges an admission fee to watch, is reliant on the dedication and investment (literally and figuratively) of its fans. We and us are certainly acceptable and appropriate. Trying to show your superiority or maturity by criticizing the use of the first person pronouns just proves the opposite.

Thanks, that was what I was looking for. I'm not too familiar with Penn State's secondary, but from what I see on depth charts online, they look rather short. Who would you have to cover Baldwin (6' 5") and who would you put on Oderick Turner (6' 3"). Mike Shanahan was a pleasant surprise in camp and is now healthy. He is also 6' 5". Also, which of the linebackers or safeties would account for Dorin Dickerson and/or Nate Byham? I agree Sean Lee is a bad-dude, but he can't do everything. Do you think Penn State has the players to shut Pitt's offense down?

They should play. That being said, why wasn't Pitt's unbelievable offense with its big, tall receivers unable to score against NC State when it mattered. That's the same NC State team that Duke hung 48 points on two weeks later. Not Duke basketball- Duke football. Let's not get too big for our britches.

C'mon man, you're gonna compare Moye to Baldwin? Grow up. Baldwin will be a Top 15 pick in the NFL Draft in a couple years. Moye will not make a CFL roster.

Aaron Berry wouldn't have trouble with single coverage on Moye. A couple years ago Elijah Fields owned Derek Moye at Heinz Field in the WPIALs. So even if, which I don't think would be necessary, Berry needed extra help. Now I know a lot has changed since then, but I wouldn't be too worried about Moye, plus I don't think D. Clark would have much time to find receivers with Romeus, Mick Williams, Sheard, and Mustakas applying constant pressure. My bigger concern would be Evan Royster.

Um...they have the same numbers chief, right down to their frames. I don't know how you can possibly say that they're that different when the have A) Equal receptions and B) Equal tocuhdowns. Baldwin averages a little more yardage wise, but c'mon many, you know damn straight you can't look at those numbers and say Baldwin is pieces of Jesus and Moye is shit.

And my point isn't even that Moye is some superstar, it's that Baldwin isn't either. He's a good receiver, but only a blatant homer like yourself could look at two people with the same statistics and say one is a top-15 pick and the other doesn't have a chance.

To say Baldwin is going to be a top-15 pick in the future doesn't help the topic. He's not at that level yet even if you were right.

Plus his first eligible draft is a year and a half away. On 2009 draft day, I'm sure I could have bet anyone on here that Shady would have been a first rounder (I even thought he would go late 1st round) and he went 53rd. Baldwin is talented but he's not at that level yet, and he's not even a top 15 WR this season.

Also by playing a safety over top and CB underneath we would neutralize his height advantage. Other than Dickerson no one even averages 3 catches a game and we have LBs who could run with Dickerson.

Also you can trash our WRs but while we don't have 1 elite guy we have 4 guys who can make plays and we spread it around to. Plus since we average more passing yards per game I would say we have the more dangerous passing attack so far.

Using stats to compare players in college is pointless & useless. If you were to use them, Bill Stull is a better QB than Tim Tebow and Colt McCoy. Ask 10 NFL or College Scouts who'd they rather have and 10 of 10 would say Baldwin over Moye and it's not even close.

Clint, I never trashed your receivers. I, actually, like Moye. I think, if he adds some weight and fills out his frame, he can become another Jurevicius. I think Baldwin is going to be a Top 15 pick based on his raw athleticism-- the guy is a freak & he is only going to improve.