ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

This is a discussion on ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil within On modifying a car, part of the Team-BHP Advice category; @blacktop; You have slightly misinterpreted my post. Valid means that it is a grade which has not been declared obsolete ...

@blacktop; You have slightly misinterpreted my post. Valid means that it is a grade which has not been declared obsolete by API. There are multiple SL rated mineral oils, and also many modern cars demand SL minimum.

@Visaster; Please look back at my posts, and you will find my recommendation that a mineral or semi-synth is much better value for money,and my own experience over 20+ years.

[quote=sgiitk;3075043]@blacktop; You have slightly misinterpreted my post. Valid means that it is a grade which has not been declared obsolete by API. There are multiple SL rated mineral oils, and also many modern cars demand SL minimum.

Sir, I am aware of these API grades and their alphabetic progression. The most current specification is SN. I have seen the product sheet of this oil and it says that it meets/exceeds SL rating. Arvind owns an Alto and Altos generally are compatible with SF rated oils and above(source: Maruti Alto owner's manual). SF is currently obsolete and SL is downward compatible. So this oil is fine. Hope you agree too.

^^SF graded MGO oils for Maruti vehicles are currently sold by many companies, including Shell. Many people buy and use them for Alto, Zen, Wagon R etc. They are not obsolete from our market.

My doubt: though a higher graded oil for these cars will be fine once the engine is hot, what about when it is cold? For instance MGO is API - SF, 20W40. Now, a 0W40, API - SM oil exceeds this spec and will be fine once it becomes hot, but what about when it is still cold? Will it offer sufficient protection TILL the engine attains operating temperature?

My doubt: though a higher graded oil for these cars will be fine once the engine is hot, what about when it is cold? For instance MGO is API - SF, 20W40. Now, a 0W40, API - SM oil exceeds this spec and will be fine once it becomes hot, but what about when it is still cold? Will it offer sufficient protection TILL the engine attains operating temperature?

Sir, SF specification is currently obsolete by API standards. Yes, oils with that specification are still available and widely used. API specification comes from the American Petroleum Institute(so you have SL, SM,SN etc). Society of Automotive Engineers rating(SAE) provides viscosity indexes of multigrade(and single grade) oils. So SAE 0w40, 10w40 etc. are the viscosity indexes of multigrade oils. Now, for your question concerning lubrication at cold temperatures, you should focus on the viscosity index(SAE xWy value) rather than the API specification. A 0W40 (x = 0) oil will provide better lubrication at -10 degree Celsius than a 10W40 oil(x = 10). At high temperatures, both of these oils will have identical viscosity characteristics( y = 40) for both. For your Alto in TN, you can safely use 10w40. Your owner's manual will provide a graph depicting the best viscosity index for your weather conditions. 0w40 is useful in extremely cold weather conditions.

^^SF graded MGO oils for Maruti vehicles are currently sold by many companies, including Shell. Many people buy and use them for Alto, Zen, Wagon R etc. They are not obsolete from our market.

My doubt: though a higher graded oil for these cars will be fine once the engine is hot, what about when it is cold?

Not obsolete since the dinosaurs still continue with them, and other also have to compete on price. I remember buying Petronas Mach 5 graded API-SM and the same was reduced to SG with a price cut a year later.

No issues, I have used synths in my Esteem as early as 2000 or so. After I sold the car the chap who bought it put up over 425,000km on the Odo. Unless your engine is shot or nearly so then it may burn some oil!

I drive a 2007 esteem. My earlier oil change was at 49000 kms :
total quartz: 4000 > Totally worth it ! engine ran real smooth, it got so rev happy that at times it appeared as if clutch is slipping. BUT, within 500 kms, oil leaked and the source was oil filter seals, the leak was considerable enough that i had to put in additional Castrol semi synth just to take it to the garage.
Post all repairs done, i rushed to the nearest pump and they only stocked servo 20W40 mineral.
Performance is alright, nothing as compared to semi synths of castrol and total (total was the best).

Now 5000 kms later, i wish to change oil and filter, please clarify if the leakage was because of usage of semi synth, or 200ml overfilling (esteem takes 3.3, garages put in all 3.5) or is it just a coincidence?

I would prefer a <1200 INR 3 ltr semi synth or mineral with 5000 change intervals than mobil1 synth.
What are my options guys? Which one do you reckon is the best in minerals or semis?

I drive a 2007 esteem. My earlier oil change was at 49000 kms :
total quartz: 4000 > Totally worth it ! engine ran real smooth, it got so rev happy that at times it appeared as if clutch is slipping. BUT, within 500 kms, oil leaked and the source was oil filter seals, the leak was considerable enough that i had to put in additional Castrol semi synth just to take it to the garage.
Post all repairs done, i rushed to the nearest pump and they only stocked servo 20W40 mineral.
Performance is alright, nothing as compared to semi synths of castrol and total (total was the best).

Now 5000 kms later, i wish to change oil and filter, please clarify if the leakage was because of usage of semi synth, or 200ml overfilling (esteem takes 3.3, garages put in all 3.5) or is it just a coincidence?

I would prefer a <1200 INR 3 ltr semi synth or mineral with 5000 change intervals than mobil1 synth.
What are my options guys? Which one do you reckon is the best in minerals or semis?

You should be happy with Total 7000, Shell HX7, Mobil XHP or Castrol Megnatec. All are 10W40 semi synthetic oils with API SM or better (Castrol is SN). Total, Shell and Mobil should be around 350/l, Castrol might be close to 400.

Oil leakage should not be due to semi synthetic oil or even 200ml overfill, so it might be bad quality oil filter or just a coincidence. However one should avoid overfilling at all, infact I fill about 100ml less then recommended and top up later if at all required. Suggest you use a genuine, good quality oil filter; Elofic or Purolater should be easily available.

EDIT - you do not need to change any of these oils at 5k km interval. Just follow 10k km or 1 year whichever is earlier and be rest assured, you won't have engine issues due to extended (to 10k km) oil changes.

My Alto is due for its 5th service in the first week of April. I have planned to get the engine oil switched over to Mobil Super XHP 10W40 Mineral oil and have been quoted Rs.1250 for a four litre bottle. Could you please let me know your suggestions on any other better Mineral oil that I could go for or would the Mobil itself be a good choice for the oil change.

I would be happy to hear from Alto Guru's on their choice of Engine Oil for their machines that brings a Smile on their face whenever they Rev the little beauty.

Ive been using Total Quartz 5000 for my Alto for the last two services and its been a good experience. Its 15W40 which is the exact grade specified by maruti for the ambient temperature in my area.

While on this thread id like to ask:
i have an NHC 2006. Talked to a Bosch Service centre in the area , they said they use Bosch 10W30 engine oil and Bosch oil filters. Any idea about how good or bad Bosch oils are ? Im using Total Quartz 7000 10W40 for the past 5K km. Should i take the car there?

I also have an Alto and the guy said they use 10W30 for all cars, even the alto. Is it okay to get the same filled in my Alto for which recommended is 15W40 or 20W40? I dont think i should do this but just wanted to check.

Ive been using Total Quartz 5000 for my Alto for the last two services and its been a good experience. Its 15W40 which is the exact grade specified by maruti for the ambient temperature in my area.

Thanks for that information. I might consider this oil as well while I go for my next change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guptavis

I also have an Alto and the guy said they use 10W30 for all cars, even the alto. Is it okay to get the same filled in my Alto for which recommended is 15W40 or 20W40? I dont think i should do this but just wanted to check...

No it is not okay. And I am very surprised that a Bosch guy says this. I had a very good opinion about them. Turns out I was very wrong. Hope its a one of!!

Coming back, no it is not fine because it violates the basic rule of engine oil grades. If your recommended grade is aaWbb, then you can go below aa and above bb. In your case, bb is 40 but the Bosch oil is 10W30, which is lower.

However, IIRC, that grade would be the correct grade for the Alto K10. Maybe that is what he meant? Highly unlikely though. Maybe he just needs to get his facts straight.

I finally got the Mobil XHP Super 10W40 Mineral Oil 4 litre can today for my Alto Lxi. The Oil is approved by Tata Motors and is recommended for use in Petrol Cars. I have attached the pictures of the can. It meets the requirements of API SL/SJ. I am eagerly waiting and looking forward to get my engine filled up with the new can so that I can Rev hard

I believe the 10W40 spec is ok to be used in the Alto, however the relevance of TATA approval escapes me since Alto is not manufactured by them and OEM approvals are basically recommendations for use in their own models.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arvind6488

I finally got the Mobil XHP Super 10W40 Mineral Oil 4 litre can today for my Alto Lxi. The Oil is approved by Tata Motors and is recommended for use in Petrol Cars.

I believe the 10W40 spec is ok to be used in the Alto, however the relevance of TATA approval escapes me since Alto is not manufactured by them and OEM approvals are basically recommendations for use in their own models.

Hi Khoj,

I got to check with one of the MASS near my place when I went to leave my Uncle's A-Star for service. I was informed that they are using Mobil brand for engine oil fill and top up for Maruti Cars serviced at their station. So I went ahead with Mobil. Also, GPA has used the same in his car and fi

I believe the 10W40 spec is ok to be used in the Alto, however the relevance of TATA approval escapes me since Alto is not manufactured by them and OEM approvals are basically recommendations for use in their own models.

Hi Khoj,

I checked with one of the MASS in near my area when I went to service my Uncle's A-Star. I was informed by them that they use Mobil Engine Oils for Car serviced at their station. Also, GPA who owns an Alto has used this particular Engine Oil in his car and has found the response of the Engine to be very good.

So I am hoping that this 10W40 boosts up my Engine's performance and keeps me and my Car's engine happy. I will update this thread on the performance of the car post Oil Change that is due in another one week.