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True we do need to upgrade our Oline and Dline but teo looks like the next ray Lewis a prospect u can't pass up... I mean think about it guys out D will still need a leader , sum one who call the shots nd puts the defense in the right spots to make the stop , a leader to motivate the rest of the team. After this season who will be left on the defense ? Thats why I think teo should be the pick because he will change the culture and attitude on this defense. We need our own Patrick Willis . I wouldn't mind seein star bein the pick but DT's are always a gamble because its the one position with the highest bust rate. I rather jus pick teo knowing he can Contribute and become the face of the defense right away

I've seen a lot of people talking about grabbing the NT out of Utah. I completely disagree.

Let me offer a different path.

First, I like Lotulelei, but I think he'd be useless as a DT in a 43 defense. Furthermore, the Raiders don't have enough depth to function in the 43 defense - how do we expect them to switch to a 34? Shaughnessy, Bryant, Burris and Wheeler are instantly useless in a 34 scheme, IMO, and aside from Houston, who else is even worth keeping?

So, no go on a NT - at least not this year.

The first pick should be aimed at getting a pass rusher - the proverbial "tweener" who can function as a rush 43 DE next year, eventually be shifted to the designated rusher in a 34 scheme.

The second pick should be aimed at grabbing an athletic MLB - someone capable of going sideline to sideline in a 43 scheme. This player, IMO, does not need to be 'great' - they just need to survive the '13 campaign as Reggie repositions the defense towards being a 34.

Eventually, you can run a 'multiple' defense - 34 / 43 - by having a NT on the field at all times and using Houston as either a DT (43) or DE (34) and moving the 'rusher' from DE to DT to give opponents multiple looks.

No way, he is too talented to be useless in the 4-3. We lack depth no matter what defensive scheme we choose.

Wheeler, Burris and Bryant are useless in a 34. They can be good players in a 43, however.

As far as Lotulelei goes, I really doubt he's athletic enough at his weight to succeed as a 4-3 DT. 43 DT's have to be big enough to hold their ground, but athletic enough to rush the passer.

In the 43, he's essntially just a run-stopper. Do you want to spend a top-5 pick on a one-trick player who will not succeed in disrupting the flow of the game?

Seems like a waste, IMO...

Originally Posted by rubiconraider

Out of curiosity, what tweener in college would you draft in the top 10??

The 34 OLB's? Some of the smaller 43 DE's?

Jones (UGA), Moore (A&M), Mingo (LSU), Okafor (Texas) -- these guys are worth a first rounder. Some are worth a top-10, but not all; it's possible Oakland trades out of the top-10, which would be phenomenal.

Originally Posted by rubiconraider

I still think the best approach is "draft best available" period. That would be a drafting "faux paux" to focus on body types.

You think the DT from Utah would be useless in the 4-3?? That is quite a statement.

First - it's about position, not body-type.

Tweener is the "DE / OLB" position - OLB in a 34, DE in a 43. Play them as a DE next year and eventually shift them to the rusher in a 34. I could have used a better term, I guess.

Secondly, it's not that Star is a 'bad' player, I just doubt he can be an effective pass-rusher in a 43 scheme. If the Raiders move to a 34? Yeah - he's worth it, but what do you do with Bryant, Burris, Wheeler, Shaughnessy, Houston, etc...?

There's very little to build around on defense, and switching to a 34 means the team will have even less depth, even fewer players in the proper position, etc.

Drafting a DE/LB rusher gives them another year or so to move towards transitioning to a 34. You can do that with the edge rusher - you can't do that with Star, IMO.

I've seen a lot of people talking about grabbing the NT out of Utah. I completely disagree.

Let me offer a different path.

First, I like Lotulelei, but I think he'd be useless as a DT in a 43 defense. Furthermore, the Raiders don't have enough depth to function in the 43 defense - how do we expect them to switch to a 34? Shaughnessy, Bryant, Burris and Wheeler are instantly useless in a 34 scheme, IMO, and aside from Houston, who else is even worth keeping?

So, no go on a NT - at least not this year.

The first pick should be aimed at getting a pass rusher - the proverbial "tweener" who can function as a rush 43 DE next year, eventually be shifted to the designated rusher in a 34 scheme.

The second pick should be aimed at grabbing an athletic MLB - someone capable of going sideline to sideline in a 43 scheme. This player, IMO, does not need to be 'great' - they just need to survive the '13 campaign as Reggie repositions the defense towards being a 34.

Eventually, you can run a 'multiple' defense - 34 / 43 - by having a NT on the field at all times and using Houston as either a DT (43) or DE (34) and moving the 'rusher' from DE to DT to give opponents multiple looks.

Just throwing my ideal draft path out there, FWIW.

Got to disagree shred. I think we can make the move to a 3-4. Obviously even if we stick to the 4-3 there will have to be some sort of stopgaps in place because we need a good amount of new starters. For example lets say we draft star and move to a 3-4. The thing about star is hes a great run stopper but hes a great pass rusher as well. If you can get adequate pressure from your NT in a 3-4 it makes your D that much more dangerous. Houston can be a pretty good 3-4 DE. The other DE position in the mean time imo can be filled with Desmond Bryant. We then have to find some guys in FA for depth. Aubrayo franklin comes to mind, and we can find other guys on short term deals as well. Miles burris imo can make a pretty good ILB in a 3-4. He just needs another ILB. Yes we are short of money and lacking a pick but even if we stick with a 4-3 we still would have to find a new MLB, mcclain is a goner. As for Wheeler I honestly think he would make a fine OLB in a 3-4. Wheeler is pretty good in pass coverage something that is very much needed in a OLB in a 3-4. The only knock is Wheeler is just a decent guy at getting to the QB, however, the fact that he can hold his own in pass coverage makes me comfortable in keeping him there. Now that we can getting adequate pass rush out of our OLB, some decent pass rushers in the DE positions, and a great pass rusher in star, the other OLB position is a must. This is where we need a dynamic pass rusher, sadly i think we would have to use a stop gap for this position until the next draft.

I for one don't think we should draft star unless we can trade down a couple spots. I have a good feeling we are going to end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick.

I just have no idea when the day will come where our defense will be built so much positions need to be addressed

Our personel fits a 4 3 and the kid out of utah is being compared to ngata..a freak athlete who can play both 3 4 and 4 3...the kid out of utah is not a typical nose atleast that's not his projection oor else he wouldn't be a top 5 prospect

Got to disagree shred. I think we can make the move to a 3-4. Obviously even if we stick to the 4-3 there will have to be some sort of stopgaps in place because we need a good amount of new starters. For example lets say we draft star and move to a 3-4. The thing about star is hes a great run stopper but hes a great pass rusher as well. If you can get adequate pressure from your NT in a 3-4 it makes your D that much more dangerous. Houston can be a pretty good 3-4 DE. The other DE position in the mean time imo can be filled with Desmond Bryant. We then have to find some guys in FA for depth. Aubrayo franklin comes to mind, and we can find other guys on short term deals as well. Miles burris imo can make a pretty good ILB in a 3-4. He just needs another ILB. Yes we are short of money and lacking a pick but even if we stick with a 4-3 we still would have to find a new MLB, mcclain is a goner. As for Wheeler I honestly think he would make a fine OLB in a 3-4. Wheeler is pretty good in pass coverage something that is very much needed in a OLB in a 3-4. The only knock is Wheeler is just a decent guy at getting to the QB, however, the fact that he can hold his own in pass coverage makes me comfortable in keeping him there. Now that we can getting adequate pass rush out of our OLB, some decent pass rushers in the DE positions, and a great pass rusher in star, the other OLB position is a must. This is where we need a dynamic pass rusher, sadly i think we would have to use a stop gap for this position until the next draft.

I for one don't think we should draft star unless we can trade down a couple spots. I have a good feeling we are going to end up with the 2nd or 3rd pick.

I just have no idea when the day will come where our defense will be built so much positions need to be addressed

3-4 is a horrible idea at this point. Right now we need a MLB, 2 corners and a DT. If we go to a 3-4, we would need 2 ILB, 1 OLB, 2 NTs and 2 corners. It seems likely we can get 4 quality players, than us getting 7 or 8. Not counting the holes we have to fill on the offensive side of the ball.

This team needs difference making players..that has been their biggest issue there is no one who other teams must account for...and i feel that the dline is the best place to add a diifference maker because that effects the whole defense and makes everyone better