Isolationism is a hypnotic platform that has seduced the American public (and other great powers) throughout its history. It is not and never was part of the founding fathers’ long term ideals — despite the selective quotes that “Paulites” may recite about Washington‘s address on “foreign entanglements.” (Robert Kagan writes a convincing study of America’s consistent engagement with the wider world since independence in Return of History and the End of Dreams. It effortlessly demonstrates American exceptionalism.)

The most simple rule of history, as Paul Kennedy unwittingly provides in the Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, is that if you don’t entangle, “they” will entangle you, and usually from a position of superiority and untapped aggression. The twentieth century was a depressing list of lost opportunities to confront extreme leviathans that were once just sea urchins — from Prussian militarism, fascism, and communism to Islamism. Mr. Paul and his allies would do well to understand that it is precisely those entanglements that must and will continue to enhance our security.

China is indefatigably on the rise with its finger on U.S. debt. North Korea is governed by a temperamental adolescent seeking ever more dangerous toys. Russia is rediscovering how to bully a country into submission with its paws firmly on the oil throttle. Pakistan (a big kid already with dangerous toys) is staring itself and the world into potential anarchic terrorist meltdown. Is Ron Paul seriously suggesting withdrawing and leaving the world “to it” in the belief that the U.S. will be unaffected by such regime lovelies?

One can only assume the ease with which Mr. Paul is cringingly taken in by Bruno represents accurately his general perception of dealing with world and international menace. For the sake of U.S. security (and as a humble Brit, dare not I say the rest of the western civilized world), keep your foreign policy fantasies to yourself. In the era of sound bites, doing nothing will in the end ultimately mean doing much more (and perhaps when it is a mushroom cloud too late).

Spencer McCarthy graduated from Cambridge University with a degree in
history, specializing in British and American international relations.
He is a freelance correspondent for the BBC as well as for other
media organizations, and spends his time between London and Los
Angeles.

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1.
Marc Malone

People are getting a taste of his folly now with Obama. Obama is trying to disentangle us from the world, and it is not working. The only things that seem to work are the Bush policies he has chosen to maintain. Who could have predicted that? Oh, wait….

Assertive interventionist foreign policy in the US requires a sure footed nation secure in the moral superiority of its cause. Those days ended in the 60′s and we have had 40 years, two more generations of ‘education’ in our schools and ‘news’ from our media sources teaching exactly the opposite. Iraq proved that we are a divided nation unable to even justify to ourselves the removal of a terrible dictator. Nor do we have the money to keep acting as the world’s policemen, our reward being more hatred directed at us each time were intervene in some other part of the world. Isolationism is relative term, right now we are the most interventionist country in the world and the citizens no longer support it. How about we just scale back to having an average interventionist policy? Figured according to how much effort other 1st world countries put into maintaining stability around the globe. Average number of naval ships patrolling waters other than their own coast, average number of soldiers deployed overseas etc.

So we can gather that you have a strong dislike for Ron Paul. Honestly, I am having a difficult time finding the relevance in this article to what is happening in the news cycle. I whole-heartedly agree that his foreign policy ideas are reckless but again, where is the relevance? This article appears to me, intended not to inform or provoke thought but to be a sucker punch in the dark, it would have been better to bring this up in 2012.

‘Isolationist’ is a propaganda ploy to keep those who don’t research misinformed & deceived. To call Ron Paul one is a blatant lie! Ron does not want to isolate US from the world. The Founders also said trade, travel, friendly relations with all nations. Entangling alliances with none.

Then there is the little & oft neglected fact THAT WE ARE BROKE!!! & can’t afford to by the cop of the planet. Ike warned us about the military industrial complex, but the author of the article seems not to know that or that the MIC is costing us $$ we don’t have.

I’m no supporter of Ron Paul, but the issue is not black and white. To say that if we took Paul’s advice, we’d lose the peaceful world we have now is ludicrous. The world is a vastly complicated place and it is difficult to say with certainty whether our involvement in a far-flung conflict helps or hurts. I blame militant Islamists for 9-11- no one else. I think we were right to take on the Third Reich. However staying in Europe, propping them up, freeing them from having to pay for defending themselves all to have them hate us and sneer at us and elect Socialist governments anyway may not have been the best use of our resources.

Spencer, you rightly slice into Ron Paul’s Achilles Heel, his slavish adherence to the Democrat regimes’ theories that dilly-dallied our involvement in WWs I and II, costing millions of lives. He’s wrong.

Sadly, without the slightest nod to Ron Paul’s main philosophy, you take down one of America’s most articulate Libertarians at a time that Libertarian economics (von Mises, Hayek, Sowell, Friedman) represents the only exit from the Fascism now flourishing here. That must mean you approve of what the corruptocrats do here.

I’d rather live with American isolationism than import your Euro political paradigms that gave us 55 million dead in WWII, including my father. Take your BBC “let America do it, then blame America” back home and stuff it.

That Ron Paul advocates removing our military from around the world does not, in any way, imply disengagement. I believe his most common phrase on foreign policy is from Thomas Jefferson – “Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none.” Seems to me that “commerce” would imply engagement. That you have made that logical leap negates other, valuable points you might have made about Ron Paul (of which there are many, such as his desire to go back to a gold-standard).

First time I heard Ron Paul talk about isolationism I knew he wasn’t the man to lead the country. The idea of isolationism may have worked in the 17 century but it’s not going to work in today’s world. Pulling U.S. forces from strategic posts throughout the world and building a huge wall around the country isn’t going to make or keep us safe it’s just going to invite more attacks. Maybe it’s time for Mr. Paul to retire to his compound, surround himself with semiautomatic weapons and enough freeze dried food and bottled water to last him for a couple of decades and wait for the end.

Erik of Dale, please put up an article or video of Ron Paul talking about isolationism.

That may be a problem since Ron has NEVER talked about isolating the USA from the rest of the world.

You did what the main article did, you put words in Ron’s mouth he has never spoken. I must presume you took his policy & overlaid it with your own definition, just like the misleading lead did.

I put up links to what Ron REALLY said. They are on here some where.

If you don’t like liberty, freedom, peace & prosperity just say so. Those are what RP stands for.

Please quit trying to make Ron in your own image by twisting, lying & misrepresenting & inserting your opinion onto what he says. Doing that will give us another McLame to oppose 0. If Romney, Perry, Cain, Huntsman, Santorum, CFR member Newt or vote to extend the ‘Patriot’ Act Bachmann get in as POTUS, we will be back to the R version of 0bama. 0 is the D version of GWB.

Is it not time to get the USA back to the Constitution, as Ron Paul has been trying to do, usually alone, for over 30 years. Yup. sure is.

Don’t be scared of Ron Paul. While I don’t agree with many of his ideas, his pros greatly out weigh the cons. NeoCons don’t like him because he points out Republican hypocrisy such as fiscal responsibility, the fed reserve problems and undeclared wars.

Dems don’t like him because they are against almost everything he stands for.

1. Marc, Obama is not leading us to Isolation he is swapping are old allies with new ones. It is no improvement.
Meanwhile as a Ron Paul Republican I think disentanglement is not such a bad idea. Once we get out of obsolete positions in Europe and Korea, the Islamist threat will become clearer. I do not think the current permutations of the Bush GWOT initiative will do any thing but waste time, money and life. IMO we should be telling those in power in the middle east that if the effort is to make the US submit or die, we won’t. Plus this is a prime condition for opening a Frontier. Do the Governments in the region really want New Frontiersmen running around there territory playing Cowboys and Arabs? The frontier response to submit or die is “No, You submit or die and than we will take your sacred homeland and turn it into real estate”. Read the Northwest Ordinance of 1784.
BTW if we end the unconstitutional “War on Drugs” the Taliban, Al Quada, FARC etc will lose at least 80% percent of their funds. This of course will lead to further decay of their power and capability to annoy us.

1. Marc, Obama is not leading us to Isolation he is swapping our old allies with new ones. It is no improvement.
Meanwhile as a Ron Paul Republican I think disentanglement is not such a bad idea. Once we get out of obsolete positions in Europe and Korea, the Islamist threat will become clearer. I do not think the current permutations of the Bush GWOT initiative will do any thing but waste time, money and life. IMO we should be telling those in power in the middle east that if the effort is to make the US submit or die, we won’t. Plus this is a prime condition for opening a Frontier. Do the Governments in the region really want New Frontiersmen running around there territory playing Cowboys and Arabs? The frontier response to submit or die is “No, You submit or die and than we will take your sacred homeland and turn it into real estate”. Read the Northwest Ordinance of 1784.
BTW if we end the unconstitutional “War on Drugs” the Taliban, Al Quada, FARC etc will lose at least 80% percent of their funds. This of course will lead to further decay of their power and capability to annoy us.

It is not and never was part of the founding fathers’ long term ideals — despite the selective quotes that “Paulites” may recite about Washington‘s address on “foreign entanglements.” (Robert Kagan writes a convincing study of America’s consistent engagement with the wider world since independence in Return of History and the End of Dreams. It effortlessly demonstrates American exceptionalism.)

You have got to be kidding. Apparently, when you’re right and have god on your side as McCarthy obviously does, you don’t have to back up any of your points. Really, where does it say that they were or weren’t isolationists?

ooOOOooh. The Campaign for Liberty and Ron Paul is being attacked by pajamas media. This is great! That means the movement is becoming more successful and the Powers That Be feel the need to attack it. This means the Campaign is being effective. Awesome.

It’s interesting how some people define putting America first as “isolationism.” Spencer, have you noticed that we no longer have a border? Have you noticed that the whole world is blood-sucking us as a result?

There is no such thing as isolationism. Please stop branding people with that tag.

Ron Paul is at times over the top but he reflects that America is much more likely to win a war than the country is to win a conference. For example, currently the American people’s greatest enemy is the International Court of criminals at The Hague. The survival of the people may require nuke them.

Mark Twain in the nineteenth century used to argue that the French revolution was relatively mild when weighed against the brutality of the French aristocracy that went on for centuries. If you do not do the politically correct thing and do charge the cost of the static against international diplomacy that keeps in place and he is right. Diplomacy is so debilitating to societies, diplomacy should only be engaged in with the greatest of caution and only as a last resort.

I too got caught up in the Ron Paul hysteria after watching some the excellecnt youtube videos his supporters made. I even became a pretty big supporter and talked about him with friends and family. But then came one of the Presidential candidate debates and he started calling America an empire over and over again and blamed ourselves for 9/11. My support for him then dropped immediately. I’m under no illusions, I’m very self-aware and I can look at my country from an outside perspective. But he’s simply wrong. And when I strated to learn more about him it became obvious to be that he was a hardcore libertarian ideologue. He became obsessed with economics and wanted to do as much as possible to reduce the taxes of Americans and keep the economy strong. Which is fine. I feel exactly the same way. But you can take those goals too far. Insulting your own country, giving aid to our enemies, excuse making for islamist terrorists, supporting the total destruction of government agencies such as the CIA were just absurd. And to top it off what really pissed me off was how smug he was about his opinions. He constantly acts like we’re too thickheaded, ignorant or brainwashed to understand what he’s saying. Another random example of Ron Paul absurdity happened when he gave an interview on American history and derided Thomas Jefferson’s decision to create the U.S. Navy to liberate the thousands of Americans who had been kidnapped and enslaved by islamic jihadists in Northern Africa. He said it was a typical foolish example of “adventuring” and trying to play the worlds police. Which makes you pause and wonder if he’d react the same way if thousands of Americans were kidnapped from their coastal towns and enslaved by muslims today. His anti-Americanism and moral relativism is a typical trait of the left. It seems to me that he’s gone so far to the right he’s gone full circle and is mixture of far and far left nuttery. I’m glad someone finally took him to task for his cracy views for once. I couldn’t believe how many right wingers he turned into anti-war America haters. I also was disturbed by how much support he had from islamists (terrorist supporters) and from people who generally hated America with a passion and would dance in the streets if we were nuked into oblivion. Hmmm, I wonder why… Enemies of America and the West LOVE Ron Paul. But I don’t want to be too hard on the guy. I like a lot of domestic policies and there’s nothing wrong with injecting some more libertarianism to our country. But most of his foreign policy and his extreme domestic views are just too much for me personally.

18.
NO RED ALERT! THE WRITER’S WILLFULLY DISTORTING. HE’S NOT ACTUALLY THAT STUPID.

This scribbler doesn’t know which side of his bread is buttered. Ron Paul is not about isolationism. At last someone in Congress is taking a stand against Jewish supremacism.

In America this racket cannot be better exemplified than in The Federal Reserve. The Reserve represents the biggest heist in U.S. history. It sprang from a 1913 collusion between Wall Street and Woodrow Wilson, which arranged for our government to finance it’s needs by borrowing from private bankers – sidestepping a true national bank, which would issue it’s own money according to provisions of the Constitution, saving our country the exorbitant cost of paying interest on loans.

IRS is a department of The Fed, not of the United States Government. Notice that when you receive mail from the Internal Revenue Service is not cost-free government delivery, it is posted and paid as private mail, exactly what it is. Has it come to your attention that when a tax-payment-check returns it has been signed over to The Federal Reserve? The Fed then signs it over to the International Monetary Fund as payment on U.S. debt. Not one penny of IRS revenue is used for government expenses. Hard-earned, American tax-payer dollars are being channeled to international bankers for funding the establishment of a wanna-be One World Government.
It is precisely through this surreptitious pact between government and corporate entity that Fascism in this country actually began. It‘s not a question of, “are we headed there?” Fascism has been a fait accompli in this country since 1913. The Federal Reserve is at the root of most of our present statutory regulations, “laws”, in control and regulation of virtually all aspects of human activity in the United States, through successively socialistic constructions laid upon the Commerce clause of the Constitution. Basically, the Federal Reserve is the “STATE” of the United States.
Ever hear of The Independent Treasury Act of 1920?

“The Independent Treasury Act of 1920 suspended the de jure (meaning “by right of legal establishment”) Treasury Department of the United States government. Our Congress turned the treasury department over to a private corporation, which when seen in its true light, is a fascist monopolistic cartel, the Federal Reserve and their agents. The bulk of the ownership of the Federal Reserve System, a very well kept secret from the American Citizen, is held by these banking interests, and NONE is held by the United States Treasury:

Rothschild Bank of London
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Lehman Brothers of New York
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York

Rather than impeding the courageous initiatives of Representative Ron Paul, Spencer McCarthy should honor him as a national hero in demanding transparency of the Fed, and eventually it’s dissolution in favor of a legitimate national bank, which functions in the interest of the American people rather than that of international banking scheisters.

And as for the brouhaha about terrorists, Representative Paul has the good sense to know that the true terrorists are swarming the shores of the Potomac and the global banking cartels, not the Middle East. Anyone of perspicacity understands that it was from these sewers that 9/11 sprang, rather than from Iraq or Afghanistan. If we sincerely want to stop the heckling of Taliban and Al-Queda, it’s a simple matter: just cut Israel loose. This infernal, boiling cauldron is not the responsibility of American citizens.

To have your eyes opened as they’ve never been opened before read the free online edition of Final Warning by William Allen Rivera at this site:

To see the light of day for the first time, read “Final Warning” by David Allen Rivera at this site:

Spencer McCarthy doesn’t know which side of his bread is buttered. Ron Paul is not about isolationism. At last someone in Congress is taking a stand against Jewish supremacism.

In America this racket cannot be better exemplified than in The Federal Reserve. The Reserve represents the biggest heist in U.S. history. It sprang from a 1913 collusion between Wall Street and Woodrow Wilson, which arranged for our government to finance it’s needs by borrowing from private bankers – sidestepping a true national bank, which would issue it’s own money according to provisions of the Constitution, saving our country the exorbitant cost of paying interest on loans.

IRS is a department of The Fed, not of the United States Government. Notice that when you receive mail from the Internal Revenue Service is not cost-free government delivery, it is posted and paid as private mail, exactly what it is. Has it come to your attention that when a tax-payment-check returns it has been signed over to The Federal Reserve? The Fed then signs it over to the International Monetary Fund as payment on U.S. debt. Not one penny of IRS revenue is used for government expenses. Hard-earned, American tax-payer dollars are being channeled to international bankers for funding the establishment of a wanna-be One World Government.
It is precisely through this surreptitious pact between government and corporate entity that Fascism in this country actually began. It‘s not a question of, “are we headed there?” Fascism has been a fait accompli in this country since 1913. The Federal Reserve is at the root of most of our present statutory regulations, “laws”, in control and regulation of virtually all aspects of human activity in the United States, through successively socialistic constructions laid upon the Commerce clause of the Constitution. Basically, the Federal Reserve is the “STATE” of the United States.
Ever hear of The Independent Treasury Act of 1920?

“The Independent Treasury Act of 1920 suspended the de jure (meaning “by right of legal establishment”) Treasury Department of the United States government. Our Congress turned the treasury department over to a private corporation, which when seen in its true light, is a fascist monopolistic cartel, the Federal Reserve and their agents. The bulk of the ownership of the Federal Reserve System, a very well kept secret from the American Citizen, is held by these banking interests, and NONE is held by the United States Treasury:

Rothschild Bank of London
Rothschild Bank of Berlin
Warburg Bank of Hamburg
Warburg Bank of Amsterdam
Lazard Brothers of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Chase Manhattan Bank of New York
Goldman, Sachs of New York
Lehman Brothers of New York
Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York

Rather than impeding the courageous initiatives of Representative Ron Paul, Spencer McCarthy should honor him as a national hero in demanding transparency of the Fed, and eventually it’s dissolution in favor of a legitimate national bank, which functions in the interest of the American people rather than that of international banking scheisters.

And as for the brouhaha about terrorists, Representative Paul has the good sense to know that the true terrorists are swarming the shores of the Potomac and the global banking cartels, not the Middle East. Anyone of perspicacity understands that it was from these sewers that 9/11 sprang, rather than from Iraq or Afghanistan. If we sincerely want to stop the heckling of Taliban and Al-Queda, it’s a simple matter: just cut Israel loose. This infernal, boiling cauldron is not the responsibility of American citizens.

To have your eyes opened as they’ve never been opened before read the free online edition of Final Warning by William Allen Rivera at this site:

So then, PM has become yet another squawk box of the COMMUNISTIC?
.
Great.
.
And here I was hoping you people might actually be possessing of the ‘real.’
.
Yet ~another~ alternative media outlet which has been compromised …
.

pretty pathetic article of a neo con arguing against ideas he thinks ron paul has. using selective quotes and straw man argumentation, not to knock ron really, but to support the neo con ideals.
lets be clear, neo cons have nothing to do with conservatism or american tradition. i will not speak for ron paul, but i will speak for me as a far right wing traditional conservative. neo con use of the budget is obscene. neo con foreign adventures in democracy building are obscene. neo con ignorance of almost every country in the world is obscene. neo con racism, anti trade notions, and ethnocentric facism is obscene. none of the mentioned obscenities have a thing to do with the conservatism. they are the fascist right. not the liberty right.
if you think using the military to bring countries into the usa’s sphere is smart. if you believe in building walls and trade restrictions. if you believe english culture and the usa s the center of the universe. you are not conservative, you are a dumb neo con. in that respect, ron paul makes a heck of a lot more sense than neo cons. neo cons, have not and never will be conservatives.

neocon rino of a blog. can we get a picture of this guy dressed up in his jackboots, clutching the bible, wrapped in an american flag? right from the start, the incredibly distorted use of the word isolationism, he might as well be using a dictionary from mars. we’re so far up the ass of everyone else around the globe, that we’re a million miles away from isolationism. we’re not even in the same multi-verse with true isolationism. it’s not even possible. people using the words isolationism and united states in the same breath are proof that humans have the power to delude themselves about anything.

this country is an empire. we’ve done some bad things, and we’ve done some good things. to deny that we’re an empire is to put one’s head in the sand. Spencer knows this. Except instead of wanting us to ease back on our over the top “up everyone’s ass” interventionism, he’s embracing the idea that we’re an empire. expand the power, expand the influence, expand the empire is Spencer’s answer.

it’s incompatible with liberty. and inversely proportional. might as well spit in the founding father’s faces.

Say what?
Paul is no isolationist.
Our wars are what have isolated us. No foreign entanglements should be what we stick to. Talk, trade, and Travel is all we should be doing overseas.
And he didn’t blame us for 911 either. He blamed those who did it. He only said that many of our policies, like interventionism, are what ticked off, and enraged some enough to commit those terrorist acts.
Thanks for trying though.
Perhaps you could send a little outrage towards the other politicians that are ACTIVELY destroying our nation, one law at a time. Obama, Bush, Mcain, Clinton..The lot of them could stand to have your microscope aimed at them.
I suggest you calibrate it first, however.

I could not agree more with the comments made by “gcblues.” Pathetic arguments, which are in fact incorrect. Ron Paul is not an isolationist. The author of this article is the one who is dangerous, and I hope that he is the one who will rest in peace after writing such a story.

“..as a man harping back to the ideals of a bygone era that never really was.”

Does the author refer to an era when we followed the Constitution? I long also for a time like this. McCarty should read it sometime soon and then write about who in Congress supports the Constitution more vigorously than Dr. Ron Paul. If he did, the page would be blank as this one should also be.

“Isolationism” is not good because the support for Israel might suffer. American taxpayers must understand and submit to this cause. Fortunately we have AIPAC who will teach the “refusers” when nessassary.

Cody, would you mind making some sense? I think this is a first for Pajamas- we have a troll who isn’t a leftist. FACT: The total income tax receipts of the US Treasury is five times the annual debt servicing expenditure, according to the Congressional Budget Office, which is a nonpartisan arm of the Treasury Department, whose job it is to project revenue and expense expectations for the government.

Yeah, dude. I mean, like I’m so sorry. I should have supported Ron. He meant it when he said he’d legalize hemp. This Obama jerk lied to me. When he said “hope and change”, I heard “dope and change”. But no. He’s an asshat just like all the Repubs. Except Ron. Ron’s cool. I learned my lesson. I’m for Ron. These Mexican hosers charge way too much for a kilo, and I can grow it myself. And I don’t need no stinkin’ medical marijuana, either. I just want to grow my own. And I don’t want to fight them A-rabs, either. I mean, they invented hashish. How cool is that?

You know that old saw about an army of monkeys on typewriters eventually producing the works of Shakespeare given enough time?

Well, it takes about one monkey, with a lobotomy, scribbling with a crayon for about 10 minutes to produce one of these boring, predictable, inaccurate, and ridiculously unconvincing hit pieces on Ron Paul. (He opposes “just about every other form of contact with the outside world”? Really? Adults are supposed to believe this?)

What’s the matter — 534 warmongers in Congress aren’t enough? Can’t have even one guy with a different point of view? Threatens the illusion of consensus a little too much? Oops.

Well done, Spencer McCarthy. You are cool enough to be in the club now! You may put down your crayon and go retrieve your banana!

In the United States, this foreign policy has been advocated at various times in the country’s history, notably during the first century of U.S. history. George Washington, the first U.S. President, advised the country to avoid “foreign entanglements.” Thomas Jefferson favored “peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations; entangling alliances with none.” John Quincy Adams wrote that the U.S. “goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.”

Ron Paul is just another patriot in a long line of American Patriots that stand for true liberty and freedom for all.

How can you claim to be conservative and for limited government but then advocate keeping troops in 130 countries around the world spending our own people into oblivion? This helps keeps us in debt and debt=slavery…

Do you know how much we spend on our foreign policy?

Ron believes the number one goal of our fed. gov. is defense. – BUT this does not mean nation building down the barrel of a gun you shmo

Ah, yes, the Empire loving neo conservatives quixotically charge at Dr. Paul. Yes, yes, yes – destroy our liberty and society at all cost so that we can rule the world, muaha ha ha ha. Neocons unite ( I better be careful with that term before I am call an anti-dentite – against dentists).

Give me a break with the tired isolationist tripe. Newsflash, we can return to our republican roots once the big government conservatives like you wake up and realize what we have lost. Its not such a bad thing to defends ones own borders. Its time to make eurotrash like you pay for your own damned defense.

We cannot impose liberty, but we can spread trade. Trade benefits both parties, whereas military force does not. Seems this whole trade thing has changed the game in China and Vietnam. How ’bout that and we didn’t drop one bomb north of the Yellow River.

Just look at what our century of engagement, defense against the reds, and now war on terror has gotten us. We can brag of consolidated warehouse schools for social indoctrination, thousands of imprisoned blacks courtesy of the DEA. Our local and traditional mores, along with the vitality of our many and diverse small communities have been thanks to the draft, WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Bush War I & II, and the interstate highway system. The states have lost their sovereignty. Our culture has been nationalized, demonized, and debased. Mothers have been taken from their home and children into industrialized day care. We now worship militarism. And we have lost innumerable individual liberties.

Yes, yes, we must stop this damned Paul fellow. Oh what damage he could do. He is threatening to end this great empire. Yikes, isolationism must be stopped.

Paul is an isolationist. There is no discernible difference between Paul’s brand of “non-interventionism” and isolationism.

Thankfully, he will never get close to the White House. Some of his economic ideas are useful, but his idea of foreign policy is suicide, just as Mr. McCarthy says.

It’s becoming very clear to me that there are no sane people left supporting “The Campaign for Liberty,” and only government hating, history-distorting, reality-challenged lunatics, based on the comments here.

I’d like to point out the significance of these two following quotes, as they summarize your position quite well.

“In his often recited critique of 9/11, Paul never once mentions the fiery rage of jihadi fundamentalism that aims to restore “the lost caliphate” and invoke medieval Sharia.”

I strongly encourage you to read Osama Bin Laden’s Fatwas issued against the United States. I’m sure you’ve heard the age old piece of wisdom to “Known Thine Enemy”, correct? Rep. Paul has done nothing but convey some of the many reasons for the attacks on US targets both domestic and abroad. These are reasons that everyone in the Islamic world already know, and anyone who is willing to ‘Know Their Enemy’ would be aware of.

“Not once does he answer why, if U.S. foreign policy causes so many people around the world to “hate us,” Islamic murderers carry out their belt-exploding best in India, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Nigeria, and other unaligned (Muslim) nations.”

- And HERE is where that “fiery rage of jihadi fundamentalism that aims to restore “the lost caliphate” and invoke medieval Sharia” you speak of comes into play. Indeed, instilling medieval Sharia in developing Muslim nations, and combating more progressive Islam in Muslim nations, is a major goal of many fundamentalist terror groups. But the United States ISN’T a developing third world Muslim nation, nor a fundamentalist Muslim nation combating a progressive movement. To suggest that Islamic terrorists have the exact same reasons for attacking the US targets as they do other Muslim targets is preposterous.

Next time you present a hit piece on this subject, do more research on the opposing viewpoint, instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions and presenting half-truths as fact.

Ron Paul did one good thing last year- made me undestand the Constitution.His isolationist slant wont work in todays world.A few submarines wont cut it there Ron Paul since the rise of the internet.His obsession with the Federal reserve isnt normal.Especially since there is a completely logical and valid reason why it operates the way it does.I found out why the Fed cannot be audited and for good reason.Afghanistan is a UN mandated mission for you dimwits out there.So to call it a fake war is way off base.Without the banking system you have no ability to capitalize on wealth.Why do you think the Templars were persecuted by the Church?Banking.So forget the bankers are source of all problems speil.The libertarian “im for free markets” wouldnt exist without banking.
Im amused by those who try to label me with names.whats even more pathetic is when they try to woo my support.

The author would do well to read Paul’s “Foreign Policy of Freedom”. He might learn a thing or two about foreign policy and, well, freedom.

By the way, Paul is the least isolationist of all the major candidates in 2008 – he wanted unabridged free trade, no sanctions or embargoes against foreign countries, and diplomacy with foreign nations.

You don’t see random small countries in Europe getting attacked for a reason – they are pissing people off. If the US didn’t go around the world trying to piss everyone off, there wouldn’t be any reason for foreigners to want to us harm.

Ron Paul is no isolationist. He is a non interventionist. Democrats want to spend trillions on BS social programs. NeoCons want to spend trillions fighting BS wars. Big government is big government whether it is at home or abroad.

The problem is that Ron Paul follows the Constitution. Does that document allow us to keep bases oversees? to give trillions to other nations in “aid”? to spend billions on pork projects that have nothing to do with the “common welfare”?

Ron Paul took an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution of the U.S. It’s just that he is one of the few Congressmen to actually take the oath seriously. If the Constitution does not allow congress or the president to do something, he’s against it. Imagine that, a man of honor serving in Congress…no wonder people don’t understand him.

Isolationism serves here, as it almost always does, as a straw man while Wilsonian neo”conservatives” can demolish easily. Unfortunately for that argument, Ron Paul is not an isolationist.

To the contrary, Dr. Paul and other conservatives have simply pointed out that massive, direct U.S. military intervention in a non-Western country aimed at “spreading democracy” is grossly imprudent, contrary to U.S. national interests, and antithetical to anything worthy of the name conservative.

What we have now is working so very well… NOT
All the neocon idiots were pontificating how sound the economy was even as the tsunami was about to drown them in their own sea of ignorance.
Theirs is a history of endless screw-ups, yet they insanely keep pushing the same switch even though the wires have been ripped out by the blowback of their past actions.
It was fun not being in their market for the planned meltdown, then getting back in for a while this year just to add insult to the injury they would like to have inflicted. I’m not greedy and am bailing out before they crash it again…
I know the elite profit from it all and have reason to carry their water, but the little peon neocons remind me of an abused hoe who worships being abused by her pimp and will defend him to the death.

And the good part is;
That apart from a small group of cultist followers of this Quixotic Texan, he never gained national traction at any place and at any time. His shilling crowd is selective too, Paul’s oblique, evasive, courteous Antisemitism is his socially acceptable magnet – a sharp contrast to the rough, blunt, Aryan Supremacist’s style which is not.

When we turn away from the code-worded Israel bashing, the field gets thinner: open borders, free flow of drug at any street corner, dismantling the modern State structure and replace it with “voluntary agreements between individuals”, old people to fend for themseves (no Medicare) are from his 18th. Century dream world when individuals made wars and peace among themselves, barbers perfumed bloodletting for healing and there was no Centers of Disease Control.

There is no modern State that could exist based on his Quixotism which ignore every aspect of the complexity and interwoven nature of the international arena, the effects of demographics: for non Anglo immigrants all his ideas sound Greek.

There is a zero sum game at work too: you do this, the Chinese will do that. You retreat, Putin will make his steps too. You do this in the Middle East, Iran will do that.
I doubt that Ron Paul ever lived or traveled to foreign countries and is capable of reconciling with 21st. Century realities as they are and not as he thinks they should be.

Kucinich and Paul! Ha, ha, imagine them together in a pub discussing politics: K. for Socialist State control, P. for Stateless voluntary individualism = scenes from the “One flew over the cuckoo’s nest”

Ron Paul went into business with Burt Blumert. Had a decades long friendship with Milton Friedman. Coauthored a book with Lewis Lehrman. Henry Hazlitt wrote the introduction to one of his books and Murray Rothbard wrote the preface for the same book.

if the author had bothered to look up the difference between the words “isolation” and “non-intervention”, he would have had to found another subject to write about. cambridge should be embarassed to have the author as an alumnis. ron paul is the only one in washington worth his salt.

This article is a hit piece made up of emotional nonsensical arguments – a tactic the left uses when they can’t argue with sound reasoning. Paul believes the most important function of the federal government is DEFENSE.

@52. William R:
This forum is supposedly for educated and informed people: Ron Paul rabid anti-Israel stand is public knowledge.

Try a simple query at Google like this: “ron paul anti israel” you will get 162.000 hits. Try to rephrase as:“ron paul anti semitic” then you get 567.000 hits.
So the game stands like your opinion versus 3/4 million countervailing posts Burt Blumert notwithstanding. Got it? Don’t nag at me, read those posts instead.

But my thread is more about Paul childish pseudo-intellectual meandering in a make-believe word where individuals replace organized States, borders are open to “free-flow of anything”, this nation exists in a vacuum ignoring hostile nations and groups, against which a “few submarine will suffice”.

He has no idea about globalization, movement of capital and workers and the assembly lines of production, the effects of any move by Russia, China or say Chavez on the global economical or security situation.

Conclusion: I harbor no ill will towards Ron Paul. I consider him a unrealistic living fossil from a bygone era which already disappeared along with the sweet dreams of many.

@58. kabud:
I know what are you talking about and I concur.
You argument however will fall on deaf ears because isolated, average Americans do not have the necessary prerequisite set of references needed to comprehend things that are brewing outside their borders.

This nation’s land was spared from the occupation of foreign armies, wars, and other type of calamities which wrought havoc elsewhere – and – formed the public perceptions of reality.
Ron Paul represents this archaic image which has a broad appeal for it is rooted in the Glorious History on horseback with swords and flags.

The opposition – like Kucinich – is equally archaic figure: his people still living in the spirits of the 1848. Communist Manifesto like the “Jocker”, forgetting that Marxism is a failed system and according to Drudge: “Cash-strapped Cuba says toilet paper running short…

When I google “Thomas antisemitic” I get over 5 million hits. Sorry Thomas. The very fact that you can’t come up with anything Ron Paul has ever said or written that could be considered antisemitic tells me all I need to know about you!

One of the first things Bush did in office was to initiate steel tariffs as a protectionist policy for the steel industry. And of course not only was that isolationist but such a policy raises prices of American-made goods making them even less exportable than they already are. As a hardcore Republican I was obviously offended by that and viewed it as an isolationist Democrat idea.

Also, the US was making inroads into a lot of places in the Middle East including Iran and Jordan in terms of public support. However, after the war with Iraq that public support evaporated, leading to a more isolated United States. I was pissed above all because it very severely unbalanced the budget, but was mad also that it took steps to isolate the United States.

I was frankly happy to see a Republican like Ron Paul who is very vocal about free trade. Of course that is the most important component to an anti-isolationist government. So really there is no merit to rather goofy concept that Paul is an isolationist.

Regarding Ron Paul blaming 9/11 on America, I’m sorry but that is such a farce comment its hard for me to have to state the glaring obvious fact. I really shouldn’t have to say this but will any way: You see, silly morons who don’t understand responsibility, responsibility is not like a pie graph to be split up such as 50% your fault, 50% mine. No, its more like real life where two people can both be 100% responsible. For example, I work a job where the work requires a lot of verifications to make sure it was done properly. If the guy doing the verifying messes up and passes along crap work without proper verification, then its 100% his fault that the crap work went through. But then again its also 100% the fault of the person who did the crap work in the first place. No its not 50/50, its 100/100. Both people are 100% wrong.

So lets use our common sense now and apply that to 9/11. First the terrorists f-ed up and committed a terrorist act. But then the government f’d up on the job and didn’t stop it, which makes it 100% their fault for not stopping it. Of course the government isn’t the criminal… the terrorist is… but they are still responsible for keeping us safe and when they don’t it is their fault. I do blame the FBI for screwing up badly on 9/11 and I’m pissed they were never punished for it. How dare any person say the FBI did a fantastic job on 9/11. They did a crap job and they deserve hell for it. Oh yeah and the Pentagon did a crap job for not shooting down the hostile aircraft. They are the most important military structure we have and yeah its 100% their fault for allowing hostile craft to pass the perimeter. And anybody who think the US government wasn’t at fault for 9/11 needs their head checked because this is just common sense. Two parties can BOTH be 100% at fault for any given mess-up. Its so obvious people, please! Terrorists: 100% at fault for 9/11. US Government: 100% at fault for 9/11. Is this concept really so difficult to understand?

There are plenty of flaws with Ron Paul so why pick imaginary flaws that make no sense whatsoever?

@65. Random Observer:
I appreciate your understanding which is apparently not shared by most posters on this thread. I, – just like poster “kabud” was born in Eastern Europe so our judgments is rooted in empirical facts and experiences, rather than emotional attachment to idolized local politicians abstract theories.

What high school paper does this guy write for? I’m embarrassed to share the same name. Mr. McCarthy doesn’t even seem to grasp the difference between isolationism and non intervention, instead choosing to paint Dr. Paul with a broad brush. It is sad to see how far the journalistic integrity of this countries media has fallen!!! Can you imagine that this countries journalist were once capable of independent thought and reporting. So sad.

Write what you want about ‘isolationism’. It isnt our responsibility to police the world. Maybe if we wouldnt have overthrown a democratically elected leader in Iran and installed an evil dictator, or if our CIA hadnt radicalized the middle east, or if we wouldnt have gave Hussein weapons to fight Iran…. or stationed our troops in Saudi Arabia.. Where were those hijackers from again???

The list goes on for days. Paul doesnt BLAME America. He points out the obvious. Its to bad this writers has elitism on his mind and a blindfold over his eyes. This argument is fallacy. YOU neo-cons support a bunch of numb nut ideas under the guise of supporting American values. Real conservatives support our Constitution and dont just pay lip service to it.

The only isolationism I see is a bunch of wankers with their head in the sand wishing Paul would just shut up.

Oh yea…. How do you feel about Daniel Hannan? I would bet you think he is an isolationist to. If I were a brit I would be singing praise, but alas, since he supports some of Pauls ideas he must be nutty to.

Amazing. A country is trillions of dollars in debt (i.e., flat broke) and is spending hundreds of billions of dollars maintaining over-seas military commitments. It is simultaneously handing out billions of dollars to military dictatorships in Pakistan and supporting absolute monarchies in Saudi Arabia while fighting wars to make the world safe for democracy in Iraq in a bizarre display of international cognitive dissonance. A politician states the obvious, namely that we should bring the boys back home and cut the military budget.

And an entire segment of the current power structure just goes absolutely bonkers and starts throwing enough invective around to start a fire.

As a practical matter we will never achieve a truly non-interventionist foreign policy – we are too entangled to completely withdraw. But it should be the baseline by which all decisions are judged. The default today has been the presumption of intervention. If there is a world event invariably there is some expectation from someone that the United States should be involved (and usually paying for something). This is foolish.

Spencer McCarthy obviously believes that we are in some global war with Islam and is deathly terrified of Arab terrorists. His solution is an aggressive pro-active attack of potential enemies. We have a name for his kind. We call them warmongers. It’s good to see that Dick Cheney has a friend.

Finally, a message to the paranoid anti-semites babbling on about international banks and the paranoid jews babbling on about closet anti-semites: you guys are tedious. Let the grown-ups have the floor for a while to discuss real issues.

If you want to understand Paul’s views, review the debate transcripts from 2007.

Dr. Paul insists that we cut Israel loose, because they are not our “stepchild”. Without us, they’ll have more incentive to forge a lasting peace. (Regular shelling of their people from across the border apparently is not much of an incentive.)

Protecting our interests in our oil supplies is “neocolonialism”.

He also advocated dismantling our “vast military overseas empire”. (Um, Congressman, that is what makes us a superpower, our ability to project power around the world.)

“We shouldn’t police the world.” (Um, who will then, if not us? Europe has had no major wars since we decided to stay and keep the peace. Just sayin’.)

“Iran and other third-world powers are no threat to us. They have no power to attack us.” (I’m not making this up.)

Shall I go on?

His domestic policies are pure Libertarian. No drug wars. (Just say, “Yes!”) No State-sanctioned marriages, because it is not the State’s business. (So, we shouldn’t have laws as to how to divide up the assets of a failed marriage, nor immunity to testifying against a spouse, etc…?) Oh, wait, abortion should still be illegal, because government SHOULD still be involved there. The litany continues on and on.

Only on financial policy does he make sense. He would be a tremendous Treasury Secretary. Other than that, he’s a loon… a likeable loon, but a loon nonetheless.

Marc Malone, you said “Protecting our interests in our oil supplies is “neocolonialism”.” OUR OIL SUPPLIES? In the Middle East? That vanity & greed is part of why we are hated in much of the world.

If Dr. Paul said that he is correct. Neocolonialism is what the foreign policy of interventionism leads to.

How about we drill our OWN oil for a while.

I don’t have time to deal with all your other misinformation, so you can go back to Homer Simpsonville & tell your boss at Media Matters that you won if ya want.

You didn’t really win, at least to those of us who look things us & don’t repackage them in our agenda’s image. But your secret is safe with US patriots who actually give a dern about the country. We who think the founders knew what they were doing. We who support Ron Paul & his 30+ year old call to get the USA back to original intent Constitutional govt.

For that you call Ron a loon & other names. Names & posts that reflect an abysmal lack of insight as to what is going down as the USA is being systematically collapsed, Cloward & Pivon style. Which collapse Ron opposes, but you seem to support because you are either lying or are a brain washed Homer Simpson useful idiot.

Your felicitations are too kind. Remarks I offered were intended to emphasize the importance of Ron Paul’s presence in the House, which has been denigrated by Mr. McCarthy. To my mind this centers around Rep. Paul’s agenda regarding The Federal Reserve – that is to say, the Transparency Act, which, I assume, he intends as the initial step
toward a complete dissolution of the infernal system. My guess would be that the record of the Fed cannot withstand the harsh light of Sunshine.

Surely history demonstrates what a failed policy this has been, in view of the astronomical expense of paying interest on loans to a private bank, when, by contrast, a national bank would be issuing it’s own specie, and controlling it’s policies without corporate influence. By now, history of The Federal Reserve has made this organ an object of public scorn and execration – from it’s plotting on Jekyll Island to the trickery involved in pushing the Reserve Act through Senate. Everything else aside, these sleazy details alone demand an excision of the blight and a return to proper health and vigor of government.

My comments on taxes were intended to redouble the importance of Dr. Paul’s zeal for reform, because clearly the next grievance demanding redress on Capitol Hill is IRS, followed by the FBI and CIA – all of which are without constitutionality, and represent an illegal hold-over of statutes made under Roosevelt’s Emergency War Powers. Further, sir, your calumniation of me is no problem whatever, when it is quite clear, my vision is broader than your own. Editorials by logic introduce contingent issues, and a consideration of these matters is both relevant and in order.

All in all, I would have to say that your collaring me on a tangential detail simply affords us the spectacle of a man who strains at a gnat and bolts a camel. Your credulity concerning reports from Capitol Hill is doubtless of some merit, but, personally, I don’t believe anything at all issuing from the filth of that Gomorrah.

@72. Marc Malone:
He is a cult leader.
Based on the latest election result the majority of this nation voted for Marxism or has arrived at the point where flirting with it is considered as cool thing (over 50%). Please don’t argue and don’t spin the ascent of the Jocker to the throne to make it as if it did not happen.
— For it did.

Not even the ubiquitous daily preaching and face-showing of the Jocker succeeded to convince Paul’s groupies that this decent country doctor has no weight outside his innermost circle, his ideas has no appeal to the nation as a whole, his political beliefs – as laudable as it may appear – is not implementable in real life and belong to the realms of wishful dreaming.

He is as peculiar as many others on the fringes: La Rouche, Lew Rockwell, various groups of Libertarians, array of Communist sects:- nevertheless he is good intentioned person, nothing wrong with him.

Chapter 5 should be titled “How Fear and Worry Can Save You.” That’s right. Fear is good, because there are bad people and scary countries with leaders who want to anthrax you. Fear is basic to survival. Those who fear nothing are not long for this world. As for worrying, the worrier displays a caring attitude. If you really care, then you cannot help worrying. It is those who do not care about anything that never worry. For they have nothing to worry about, being detached and emotionally separated from the concerns of the whole human race. If someone tells you to stop worrying and live in the present, remind him that living in the present is for children and animals. It is not for adults…”

79.
Thomas: Who would have thought the IRS could be forced into bearing the burden of proof?

The spirit of reform belongs to the pure of heart, but only DARING can brave the odds and emerge with victory.

Do you have any idea what forces lie behind The Federal Reserve? The most grasping and dangerous international bankers in the world – the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds. No level of iniquity is beyond the Illuminists, who will drop to any level of behavior on behalf of greed and their lust for power. That’s what the Fed is all about – appropriating the hard-earned dollars of the working class.

The Mafia is one of the ruder chapters of the Illuminati. Their tactics have become more common knowledge, but all Illuminists are as ruthless and murderous. “Globalism” and the “New World Order,” Communism and Socialism are just fronts for the drive for banking monopoly.

You saw what happened to Rep. Jim Traficant, Jr. when he trumped the IRS. He was railroaded into prison on false charges. And you notice that John Demjanjuk has been deported again for trial, though it has been conclusively proven that he was NOT Ivan The Terrible. It was Jim Trafficant who extricated Demjanjuk from those who would execute him in Israel. Now that Jim will be re-emerging soon, they’ve shipped the old gentleman off for trial again. Their evil is without peer.

The people who plotted The Federal Reserve from the very beginning are the most venal, most murderous of mankind. They are the same people who brought us the bloody revolution of the Bolsheviks, and before that the carnage of the French Revolution. Genocide is their banner.

Are you beginning to get some idea of the courage Rep. Ron Paul represents? He is the Eminence grise in Congress. He has no equal, but presents a model to all who witness.

For a better understanding of what is going on I suggest you read the free online edition of “Final Warning, “by David Allen Rivera. I recommend Part I; begin with Chapter 2 – the section on The Federal Reserve. You will find this at: comingjudgement.250x.com.

kabud, what kind of bud you smoking? You are trying to tell us there is no House of Rothschild that owns every major bank in the world & the US ‘Fed’? There is no Spooky Dude, G Soros who owns a lot of US media? That Soros doesn’t fund Media matters, the Tides Foundation & so on?

How about you explain what the goal of Soros’ Open Society is? What UN Agenda 21 is?

@76. William R:
By being a simple poster with an opinion it’s not my task to lecture you on Paul’s public statements and declarations because those stuffs are widely available on the net for inquisitive minds.
I can care less about him because he is an insignificant player compared to the heavy weight guys like Soros and other members of his club.

This is a vanity thread about an ephemeral phenomenon called Ron Paul whose creed is dear to a number of people just like Robert E. Lee is enshrined where I live…his statue shows his outstretched arm pointing to the North.
— Then what?

Ron Paul’s foreign policy would make the U.S. much safer. Instead of squandering precious American lives and trillions in resources on behalf of General Electric, Exxon Mobil, and Goldman Sachs, he would have a very lethal military poised primarily around North America and patrolling the high seas with aircraft carriers and nuclear strike capable submarines. Ron Paul is an avid proponent of free trade and thus would develop unprecedented healthy interaction, diplomacy, and respect between the U.S. and our neighbors.

I understand you disagree with him, but it’s silly to say he doesn’t address points that are obviously important to you when he clearly does.

Back in the late ’80′s, he started predicting that incidents like the Twin Towers attacks (there were 2) would happen if we didn’t follow Reagan’s Lebanon example and change our foreign policy. He was right then, and I believe he’s right now.

Apparently so did the soldiers, sailers, airmen and marines, as he raised more money during the primaries than all the other candidates, and more money than all the GOP candidates combined.

Ron Paul is not in any way an isolationist. You clearly don’t understand his platform, and most of the people commenting here are just quick to agree with something they know nothing about. How about you actually read some of his writings? How about you learn something about political theory and learn the difference between a non-interventionist and an isolationist. Paul isn’t naive or presenting a simple philosophy. It may actually take time to understand. Maybe a lot of time if you are so trapped in such a limited and biased worldview that you judge others views before you even understand them. This article is a hit piece. It isn’t wrong to criticize Paul, but if you are going to do so at least get the facts straight.

“Not only does his rhetoric shadow that of Ahmadinejad’s “wiping off the map” spiel, it unforgivably ignores the fact that a domestic passenger flight from Boston to Los Angeles inflicted 9/11. On how a submarine is supposed to infiltrate terrorism from within, he is less clear or visionary.”

I hope the author attends to the testimony of Sibel Edmonds yesterday. She testified under oath that in her capacity of FBI language specialist she found proof that the “Taliban” was a bought and paid for U.S. Government intelligence asset up to 9/11. That also explains why surveilance of a memeber of the group that allegedly took out the Twin Towers was buried prior to 9/11 – this is well known from a source other than Ms. Edmonds.

Kabud, I followed your link and found the essay to be profoundly dark, perverse and psychotic. If you identify with this line of thinking you should despair of connecting with the American mentality.

A rare display of earnestness is evident in your posts, which I admire, but your views can only mislead. None of the nations of the world have anything to gain from nuclear war, as it is obvious that an aggressor would be instantly and automatically annihilated. There’s no future in such an option. Putin is a comical boy who likes to appear ominous and threatening, but is hip enough to know that nuclear war would be unproductive. He does, however, enjoy a bit of melodrama. The U.S. enjoys significant collaboration with Russia – both in space exploration and in the U.N.

Kim Jong II and Ali Khamanei pose more significant threat simply by dint of backwardness and dementia – the two separated by a very thin line, if at all. But for neither leader could nukes be considered a promising alternative. North Korea and Iran simply want to possess modern defenses, which is not unreasonable, and in many ways the U.N. sanctions may ultimately do more harm than good. The U.S. has acquired enemy status by way of having organized the U.N., and for our alliance with Israel. The latter springs from America’s apparent need to defend the Rockefeller oil empire in Saudi Arabia.

The weak link in the entire chain, of course, is the state of Israel, which should never have been created at all. Arab wrath is fully justified, and any nuclear threat to us would arise from our blind defense of Israel. Israel is the trigger, but there is much wisdom on all sides to work for the preservation of the planet, rather than self-destruction.

Your words concerning the Illuminists are totally without foundation and should be withheld. This international banking cabal was plotting it’s pitiful machinations way before our contemporary differences with Russia. The French Revolution, with all it’s gore and horror, was fomented by them. This cult was imbedded in American culture from the beginning. The national seal and our currency are rife with it’s symbols. Ben Franklin belonged to the Illuminati, as it is believed, did Thomas Jefferson as well.

The Bolshevik Revolution resulted from the writings of Karl Marx, which were commissioned by Adam Weishaupt acting on behalf of Anschel Rothschilds. America’s involvement in World Wars I and II was precipitated by the strategies of this cabal. Their enduring goal has been to maintain such anarchy that the ‘stability’ offered by a New World Order, a One World Government, would be welcome and embraced. The end result wold be a banking monopoly consisting of fewer than a dozen men.

Motivating factors behind this ceaseless agitation reach back to B.C. times, and quite simply, are GREED and GENOCIDE. The people of Judah imagine themselves ‘chosen,’ and have no more regard for Gentiles than for Kosher cattle slaughtered in the controversial new videos. (Google this.) Jewry champions Jewry, and seeks genocide for the rest of humanity.

These are details of which most Americans have been unaware. But there is a great need for enlightenment, and I ask you to stand down now and obstruct no more. You have made your points and they are less than helpful. Your views spring from other cultures and afford us no assistance. Stand down.

In conclusion, I will emphasize, the shabby plot will never come to fruition, springing as it does, from mythology, childish credulity, and a condition of near insanity through inbreeding.

@88. Dennis A.:
Please don’t take it as an offense but Paul’s ideas – even his entire sustenance – is as seminal or important as Jefferson Davis’ vision of the future. He is 73 years old he will be passé before the Jocker’s rule ends.
After that you can quote his wisdom in your various theses along with De Tocqueville’s.

And always remember:Mark Anthony’s Funeral Speech
from Julius Caesar by William Shakespeare

“The evil that men do lives after them;
The good is oft interred with their bones;”

I’m sorry but you are wrong if you are against non-intervention and there is no debate to be hled here provided you can actually analyze history – particularly where is should be most relevant – in the Middle East. You know absolutely nothing about the Middle East and its history if you think the United States needs to get involved in its affairs. Read a history book and analyze the effects of Western Imperialism (particularly that of the U.S., Britain, France, and Russia) and you will find that Western Imperialism spawned nationalism in the Middle East as well as political Islam. Among other mishaps in the 20th and 21st centuries, western imperialism is responsible for the absolute disaster that is the Isreali – Palestinian conflict, using the CIA to overthrow Mosaddeq in Iran, and the Iraqi War. Can you name one good thing that has come from western intervention in the Middle East? If you can, I promise you that in time, that which seems beneficial will become a failure. It only takes time for our meddling in the Middle East to turn to disaster. The quicker the U.S. leaves the Middle East to solve its own affairs, the quicker peace and stability will be brought to the region – and don’t bring up that crap about the pro U.S. governments there falling to dangerous regimes if we leave because most (if not all of those dangerous regimes) grew partly in response to Western Imperialism. By the way, foreign humanitarian issues should not have anything to do with the United States either. Can you find where in the Constitution it says that issues like Darfur are relevant to the U.S. government? Yes issues like those of Darfur and Rhodesia are terrible tragedies, but if you want to fix humanitarian issues join an NGO.

P.S. – I am almost positive that within the next 4 or 5 presidential elections we will have a complete non-interventionist (like Paul) in the White House and I can guarantee the United States will see immediate prosperity and the world will see their prosperity and therefore sovereignty (which go hand-in-hand) slightly after us…

Thomas, you are the only one with a wholistic world view on these comments, uncorrupted by parochial sentiment and small mindedness about their country and its place in the world. Ron Paul seemes to embody that exactly. These people are ‘useful idiots’ – (to quote Lenin).

Dear Spencer, all your fear mongering in support of the military establishment will likely augment your career with the BBC, but you will find yourself on the wrong side of history.

As much as you and your ilk would like to herd our thinking into supporting the developing “order,” humanity is moving inexorably toward personal sovereignty. Disinformation and propaganda are no longer the coin of the land.

I agree with non-intervention unless our security is at stake. It is not the responsibility of the US to fix the world’s problems.

Ryan;

Peace in the middle east isn’t dependent on whether we leave or stay. Instability there is instrinsic. The conflicts are multi-layered – Arab against Persian, this kind of Muslim against that kind of Muslim, this tribe against that tribe, this ethnic group against that one, Muslims against the religious minorities, etc …

This is not denying that Western intervention exacerbated the issues, but you are stretching the truth considerably when you blame centuries old disputes on Western adventurism.

Yes Russia is terrifying! On top of all the economic woes, there’s a shrinking population that coincides with a death rate that doubles that of most developed countries, a military that remains something of a joke and a problem with AIDS. I don’t think I need to tell you about their relation with oil and how we can keep them in line without having to spend a dollar on the military. They have had to resort to patrolling submarines in international water to bluff their “power” lately. That sounds terrifying!!! Don’t lecture me on history either…

And @ Free Quark, yes I completely agree with you – sorry if you got the wrong idea from my post and if you find that I was stretching the truth because I don’t think I am. Muslims were destined for years of war once the Prophet died and there was a power struggle between the Sunnis and Shiites. I agree that the various peoples of the Middle East are destined to fight amongst themselves (Kurds, Persians, Jews, Sunnis, Shiites, Maaronites, Turks, Druze, Berber, etc – you get the point). But aren’t the people of every region of the world going to quarrel amongst themselves?. But like you stated, my point is that we imperial powers have drastically exacerbated things and (gratuitously) made them our problem. However, the quicker we leave them alone, the quicker they can solve their own issues (trust me when I say that this is what they would like the most). The quicker they can work on their own issues, the quicker AMERICANS (key word) – people who live in a country with borders that do not extend around the entire earth wont have to worry about crap that isn’t our business…

- In the end I sincerely appreciate your voice of opposition Thomas – this conversation/disagreement is what these forums are for. But to suggest that I’m narrow minded is foolish, considering your the one who probably buys into Neocon propaganda, while I’m willing to think for myself and question the leadership that has put us in a crash course for disaster. Good luck disagreeing with every person who continues to post here…

Ryan, it is a sign of Thomas’s convcitions and beliefs that he disagrees with everyone on here, and quite right too. It used to be only a few that disagreed with the ‘majority’ before Britain fought Nazism, or the US entered the war (after being bombed by the Japaneses – thinking it could sit that round out too). The crash course in disaster has been sowed by the past 60 years of ‘realism’ in your foreign policy – supporting stooges and autocratc Middle East regimes. That is where your ‘blowback’ eminates. Bush was the first President to realise this, and thank goodness for that.

There’s a reason why Osama Bin Laden’s Fatwa in 1996 was titled: “Declaration of War against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places”.

From what I’ve read here, it seems the authors belief is that the US is targeted because Islamic Wahhabists are aggressive, horny, and want to instill Shariah law in our country. Very interesting theory.

I know, how about we see what the perpetrator of the terror attacks has to say about the reasons for targeting the United States:

“No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:

First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.

If some people have formerly debated the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it.

The best proof of this is the Americans’ continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, still they are helpless.

Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, in excess of 1 million… despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.

So now they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.

Third, if the Americans’ aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews’ petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there.

The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel’s survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.”

There was a famous middle-eastern writer who said something along the lines of ‘great nations should not get involved in the affairs of small tribes’.

Frankly, we should take his advice.

I don’t think Middle-Easterners are destined for perpetual war any more than anyone else. European history is chock full of warfare – in fact the two worst wars in human history were Western sourced.

You are correct, we need to get out of there and let them clean up the dysfunctional messes they’ve blessed themselves with. We have to stop subsidising the four or five governments we’re giving cash to and tell them to find another sugar daddy.

When was the pact between Russia and Germany to divide Europe among themselves? – in 1939.
— Oh it was long time ago…
When invaded the Russian army Finland? – in 1939.
— Oh it was long time ago…
When invaded the Russian army Hungary? – in 1956.
— Oh it was long tome ago…
When joined the Russian army with Egyptians to destroy Israel? in 1967.
(Oh those pesky Jews! Should have been all destroyed! – isn’t it Paul?)
When invaded the Russian army Czechoslovakia? – in 1968.
— Oh it was long time ago…
When invaded and dissected the Russians Georgia? – in 2008.
— Oh the last year is gone, forget about it….

Summary: don’t fear the Russians, they are dying out, our army defeated the Germans at Stalingrad and our Shermans wiped out the German SS Panzer divisions in the battle of Kursk…

If the Russians close the gas valves to Europe, the Nato and W. Europe can stuff it in Christmastime.
So much about the bluffing Russians.
The Jocker, straight from the streets of Chicago, with all the idiots around him is no match to Putin and his apparatus.

Thank You PJM for exposing this nutcase Ron Paul! Everything he says is wrong. His stance against the wars, his support for the outdated “Constitution”, his hatred for income taxes. Everything he says is crazy! Don’t listen to that kook whatever you do!

Sign the petition and it will link you through to your representative and senators’ web sites. They even provide the verbiage if you want to use it. Ron Paul can’t beat the Fed by himself. With the support of a majority of Americans, he can.

You really mean to tell me we can’t do as a country what we teach to our own children?

Keep to yourself and mind your own business?

Safe to say the USA apparently suffers from delusions of grandeur.

You pick up one end of the stick, the other comes with it. Because you fail to acknowledge it, we lose the Spirit of America and shred up the Constitution at the same time. We redefine everything in our history to better suit this “new understanding” that we apparently can’t afford our freedom in order to defend it, but thousands can die for it in the meantime? Why isn’t their shed blood a clue to you that the Spirit died right along with them?