I'm voting for Led Zeppelin. I love the Jesus Lizard, but based on which records I listen to more frequently (and completely), Led Zep's sprawling range wins it for me.

I sympathise with those who find fault with Plant's voice, their bombast, the drum solos, the Tolkien thing (Ramble On, cheesus cripes), the stadium mania, the trad rock deification of Page, or any other of the thousand facets that they exhibited that are now clichés. But they made maybe five records that I think are fantastic, hugely varied, at times genuinely experimental, and absolutely rocking.

I saw the Jesus Lizard in Manchester about 13 or 14 years ago and the experience counts as one of the best. Indescribably good. Steve's comment (sometime, somewhere) about their putting across a uniquely powerful and pungent account of the human condition pretty much matches what I remember. Goat, Liar and Lash are sublime, and I still have a soft spot even for Blue.

However, I always felt that the Jesus Lizard's range was quite narrow. That they still sound utterly unlike anyone else is testament to this, I believe; once you'd heard one of their great records, the good surprises on hearing others were never really that surprising. (I beg forgiveness for this corruption of a tautology.) With rare exception ("The Associate" is one), I've never been fully taken aback by one of their songs.

This slight predictability (perhaps more on record, given that I've only seen them once) is no bad thing - they did what they did incredibly well. Simply put, they rocked and they made me feel funny. But I often feel weary after listening to an entire album. Too much of their good thing.

On the other hand, at times I am still shocked by Led Zeppelin, and more often for good reasons rather than bad. An obvious example from a recent listen is the break down in the middle of "Whole Lotta Love" - why the fuck did they put this silly thing there? Why does it work? Similarly, this afternoon the ostentatious strings on Kashmir had me pumping my fist in the air, which is unusual when I'm eating soup.

This comparison oddly reminds me of the A. Alvarez quote that rests on most books by Beckett: "His genius has never been inclusive or wide ranging . . . it is like a laser—narrow, intense, continually probing." The obvious comparison (I can't remember whether he makes it explicitly - Beckett certainly did) here is with Joyce, who seemed to try to encompass all styles and everyday experiences. This is an appalling stretch, but given it has popped into my tiny mind, I'll write it anyway: The Jesus Lizard's concentrated music is akin to Beckett, whereas Led Zeppelin's stylistic smash 'n' grabbing is akin to Joyce. Similarly, I love Beckett, but prefer Joyce.

(Awful, awful, awful, I know; but I had to shift the stupid idea stuck in my head somehow.)

Plus, a lot of the standard criticisms of Led Zeppelin don't wash with me. Like this one:

Ace wrote:Led Zeppelin, at their best, were covering Willie Dixon.

If you're referring to riff pinching, then certainly they did this with impunity. However, this happens all the time (I'm pleased to see that both bands are mentioned on the same page). I will go further, in fact, and say that it is necessary. Generally, regardless of the notes played, Led Zeppelin sounded definitely of their own. The notes and chords played are only part of the delivery of a song; the intent is more important. In the main, Led Zep did not sound like Willie Dixon - even if they wanted to (which Plant possibly did in his moments), they could never sound like Willie Dixon. What they did sound like though was a unique, awesome, grooving and balls-out rock band.

To take an unearned liberty, I am fairly sure that David Yow would vote for Led Zeppelin, and that his choice would not be due to his considerable modesty.

Isabelle Gall wrote:A few weeks ago I almost started a 'WHO IS THE BEST BAND?' Thunderdome between The Jesus Lizard and Scissor Sisters.

Yow teamed with Helmet to cover "Custard" on the Encomium tribute album...

Not that this means much.

I saw the Lizard open for Bush once in Milwaukee at a Summerfest thing.

Even though they got some milquetoast sound/PA treatment as openers, and we were far enough out that it turned to an echo-chamber of noisy mush, I still liked them.

I only owned one Lizard album, either Goat or Head... The other was borrowed for a time from a friend.
Whichever one I owned, it's gone. The ex-GF pawned it along with a grocery basket full of my CDs taken at random from the shelf once when she wanted another 8-ball and I was too busy at work to prevent this.

I should re-buy those two, and build the Lizard collection. Aside from those two, anything to go for ahead of the others??

rocker654 wrote:(regarding jail) I can't recommend it. The toast is too rubbery, and the bellboys have too much snotty attitude.

I never saw either band and I would never pay upwards of £40 to see either...unless there was some kind of crazy T&G style thing that I would probably fly to...and anyway, John Bonham is dead so they don't even exist. Both bands have a certain level of bombast but TJL are just dirtier and nastier.

Also, LZ are nuts about LOTR which never really grabbed me and on the whole, LZ fans are marginally less interesting than TJL fans. Marginally.

It's like comparing lager with ale. Or sorbet and ice cream.

I'm sure LZ were deemed 'dangerous' back then but since I wasn't around, I'll go for the danger factor within TJL and that'll have to be my vote.

*mops brow*

Tom wrote: I remember going in the back and seeing him headbanging to Big Black. He looked like he was raping the air- really. He had this look on his face like, "yeah air... you know you want it.".

LZ changed music and what it means to be a music fan. I respect their innovations and their accomplishments. While they played live, it has to be conceded that in all aspects of their lives, they ruled the way nobody else ever has or will. They are at the very top of the rock star class.

That said, I would be straight-up lying if I said there was ever a better band than the Jesus Lizard. The Stooges and the Birthday Party come close.

I agree with this except for Houses Of The Holy and How The West Was Won.

Well, I guess Houses is ok, but other than that: no

Jesus Lizard wins.

"for when you bring two objects of such astounding masses of suck as these two together, they circle each other at incredible velocity until finally merging into an infinitely dense singularity of suck"