Actually, I like hearing other people's viewpoints. Hopefully, it broadens my opinions and knowledge. My comments before were not meant to say otherwise and if they came across as seeming like other POVs were not welcomed or appreciated, then my apologies. Maybe I didn't say it very well. That being said however, to me there's a big difference between saying "I feel XYZ" and "I feel XYZ and you should too and act accordingly." I think the latter implies a right and a wrong and a moral judgment and that's the part that upsets me.
So as far as I'm concerned, bring on the other POVs!

Well, that's not at all the way I feel. I thought it was a calm, reasonable, reasoned, back and forth discussion and welcome the opportunity to engage with someone with a slightly different POV (after all, our points of agreement are far greater than those of disagreement) and try to understand more where the truth lies between the two.

I think, if I'm not misunderstanding, that the part you think some of us aren't open to is the idea of "Just do it; go all out for 30 days and then everything will be fine", no excuses, while I just want to share the reality that I, and many others, did just that - and still couldn't succeed. I'm interested in hearing why you think those experiences don't directly address your suggestion, as opposed to just "not being open" to it.

I hope you realize you'd be welcomed to re-engage if you'd like to bring anything further into the conversation.

Unfortunately, I think for people who don't have an obvious improvement in some condition during those 30 days or an increase in energy or SOMETHING to show that health is improving will find it difficult to keep saying no to the food they missed during that 30 days. I, for one, went pure primal/paleo from September through January. I saw no marked improvement in energy level, weight loss, didn't remarkably start feeling better, etc. I am sure health markers, like cholesterol, improved. However, the other things so many people state happened for them did not happen for me. It becomes easier to "fall off the wagon" or cheat here and there...which becomes all the time...when obvious relief, like Griff posted about, does not happen. For those of us, it takes some other reason to stick with it! I am still trying to figure out that reason!

A lot here seem to go through phases, sometimes they will be super strict and sometimes go with a softer approach on themselves. So long as you are being honest with yourself you can't go far wrong. It's when you start making excuses that the snow ball starts, and before long you are buried under layers of chocolate and cookies.

Just stop snacking. I think of it as a mini-IF. Just before I started primal I read a book called Mastering Leptin. The author, Byron Richards, recommends 5-6 hours between meals for optimal hormone function. I found it really helped me not want to snack and I had fewer cravings. It might take a white knuckle approach at first until the body adjusts. I find it keeps the chocolate and nut monsters off my back

True healthcare reform starts in your kitchen, not in Washington. ~Anonymous
The worst carrot is better than the best candybar.--TornadoGirl

When I began taking 5-HTP and amino acids, a la Dr. Michael Murray and Julia Ross, everything -- all the years of struggle, meticulous planning and record-keeping, self-loathing for not being able to stop bingeing/being "weak", extreme dieting -- completely went away in one fell swoop, like a magic eraser. Then I knew it has nothing to do with willpower and everything to do with biochemistry. All one must do is give the brain what it needs (and was getting from bingeing) -- serotonin and dopamine.

I now have zero cravings, zero struggle, my food is super clean, and it is so easy that it actually makes me mad.

TigerLily, would it be right to assume that a meat-heavy diet would provide all the amino acids needed? RR is based on the idea of creating serotonin with diet, but I've never had any kind of depression issues, not even close. I don't think I'm deficient in it unless it can show w/o depression, but I'm definitely curious about the amino acids. I eat a LOT of meat! (but did not used to, at all)

When I began taking 5-HTP and amino acids, a la Dr. Michael Murray and Julia Ross .

I've read Julia Ross's books The Diet Cure and The Mood Cure. Was very impressed with what she had to say, particularly about nutrition and amino acids. Was a little reluctant to just go ahead and start taking the stuff though...without any medical advice. Did you actually go see her in CA or just follow the suggestions in her book?

Is the Dr Michael Murray you're referring to the guy who wrote Hunger Free Forever? Do you actually take his fiber stuff?

Mama: From my experience and reading, serotonin deficiency is key to all this (and, secondarily, dopamine), so it sounds like RR is definitely on the right track. I think for those with only mild depression/bingeing issues, a meat-heavy diet alone might suffice. (And we've seen that bear out here on this site.) But I was/(am) a particularly hard case, and there is a tragically long history of mental illness and whacky eating disorder issues throughout my father's family. The Primal WOE definitely does help, but I need more. I need to supplement.