The point is that the expanded background checks were nothing but trying to get every gun owner into a federal database. They were asking for a background check for gifts from family members and everything else.

Anyone who has bought a gun knows that there is already a law against buying a gun for someone who is not eligible to do it themselves. The purchaser is always responsible and will get massive jail time if caught.

And every gun show I've been to, everyone who was buying a gun had to go through a background check. not saying it's always the case tho.

The point is that the expanded background checks were nothing but trying to get every gun owner into a federal database. They were asking for a background check for gifts from family members and everything else.

Anyone who has bought a gun knows that there is already a law against buying a gun for someone who is not eligible to do it themselves. The purchaser is always responsible and will get massive jail time if caught.

And every gun show I've been to, everyone who was buying a gun had to go through a background check. not saying it's always the case tho.

But opponents of the bill deliberately misrepresented the bill by claiming it could lead to a national gun registry, which many gun advocates fear could lead to confiscation or even tyranny, even though the Manchin-Toomey proposal actually made it a felony for officials to create a registry.

^this is what failed today

Of course the NRA has a starkly different view of what the ATF and gun control advocates view as unreasonable restraints. Chris Cox, the executive director of the NRA's lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action (ILA), did not respond to an interview request. But last February, in the NRA magazine First Freedom, Cox wrote, the "NRA-ILA puts a great deal of effort into protecting gun owners by urging the Congress to pass 'riders'… that help accomplish our agenda." An NRA press release from November 2011 heralded the riders in the ATF appropriation as "Twelve Big Wins for Gun Owners."

According to Cox, the most important of the ATF riders "is a prohibition on creating or maintaining a database of gun owners or guns," which the NRA and other gun-rights advocates say could be used by a tyrannical government to confiscate firearms. The rider, which dates back to 1978, was a response to President Carter's attempt to create a national registry of handguns. A related rider, dating to 1997, bars the government from creating an electronic database of the names of gun purchasers contained in 597 million gun sale records from 700,000 out-of-business dealers. (Those dealers are required by law to turn their records over to the ATF.) In addition, a 1986 law, the Firearm Owners' Protection Act, explicitly forbids the government from creating a database of gun owners.

there would be no gun registry. so that reasoning doesn't jive with the facts.

The point is that the expanded background checks were nothing but trying to get every gun owner into a federal database. They were asking for a background check for gifts from family members and everything else.

Anyone who has bought a gun knows that there is already a law against buying a gun for someone who is not eligible to do it themselves. The purchaser is always responsible and will get massive jail time if caught.

And every gun show I've been to, everyone who was buying a gun had to go through a background check. not saying it's always the case tho.

But that is not necessarily true, I mean if your a gun owner and you purchased a weapon from a legal outlet your already in a national database.......it shouldn't matter if you buy as a gift anyway.....you still want to know who has legal posession of the gun, just in case the gift is to an unstable person.

there would be no gun registry. so that reasoning doesn't jive with the facts.

You are right. But there has been strong criticism against those bills. Even Biden himself came out attacking the supporters of those bills. And it's not too unreasonable to think that they would be overturned sometime in the near future.

Mr AirRic said:

what would be wrong with that? a gun is a lethal device, so it would only be responsible to track where they all are (just as we do with automobiles, etc.

see my previous post above with stats...

Because that's nothing but fear speaking. A knife is a lethal device too. Because of a few bad seeds, you think that you should require every law abiding citizen to submit to a central registry? Point is, these increased laws are not going to affect the criminals. They are going to affect law abiding citizens that did nothing wrong. Look at Kansas. Damn near everyone in Kansas has at least one gun and how many murders are there per year? Now look at Chicago that has some of the strictest gun laws and consequently some of the highest gun violence. And you do know in all the firearm death statistics, a large portion are the result of police officers right? When they talk about gun deaths in the US, that is suicide, police officer, or criminal. The leading cause of gun death in the us is suicide, so that would agree with your statistics that most people who k!ll themselves do it with their own gun.

Dos-effect said:

But that is not necessarily true, I mean if your a gun owner and you purchased a weapon from a legal outlet your already in a national database.......it shouldn't matter if you buy as a gift anyway.....you still want to know who has legal posession of the gun, just in case the gift is to an unstable person.

You do not get put into a federal database. And they don't do Federal background checks. At least in CO when I bought all 3 of mine they did a background check through the CBI. So it's on the state level. But the thing is, they were trying to require a background check if a father buys it for his son. In addition to the one the father already went through.

You are right. But there has been strong criticism against those bills. Even Biden himself came out attacking the supporters of those bills. And it's not too unreasonable to think that they would be overturned sometime in the near future.

Because that's nothing but fear speaking. A knife is a lethal device too. Because of a few bad seeds, you think that you should require every law abiding citizen to submit to a central registry? Point is, these increased laws are not going to affect the criminals. They are going to affect law abiding citizens that did nothing wrong. Look at Kansas. Damn near everyone in Kansas has at least one gun and how many murders are there per year? Now look at Chicago that has some of the strictest gun laws and consequently some of the highest gun violence. And you do know in all the firearm death statistics, a large portion are the result of police officers right? When they talk about gun deaths in the US, that is suicide, police officer, or criminal. The leading cause of gun death in the us is suicide, so that would agree with your statistics that most people who k!ll themselves do it with their own gun.

You do not get put into a federal database. And they don't do Federal background checks. At least in CO when I bought all 3 of mine they did a background check through the CBI. So it's on the state level. But the thing is, they were trying to require a background check if a father buys it for his son. In addition to the one the father already went through.

Yes but you'd be a bit naive to not believe that all this stuff is not in a federal database

Because that's nothing but fear speaking. A knife is a lethal device too. Because of a few bad seeds, you think that you should require every law abiding citizen to submit to a central registry? Point is, these increased laws are not going to affect the criminals. They are going to affect law abiding citizens that did nothing wrong. Look at Kansas. Damn near everyone in Kansas has at least one gun and how many murders are there per year? Now look at Chicago that has some of the strictest gun laws and consequently some of the highest gun violence. And you do know in all the firearm death statistics, a large portion are the result of police officers right? When they talk about gun deaths in the US, that is suicide, police officer, or criminal. The leading cause of gun death in the us is suicide, so that would agree with your statistics that most people who k!ll themselves do it with their own gun.

1) don't compare knives to guns. im much more scared of a crazy person running around with a gun than a knife
2) the stats i posted were strictly on mass murders committed by guns (no suicides, etc). and those facts are that the majority of those mass murders are caused by guns, acquired legally, and by people with mental conditions that a background check would've kept them from buying the gun (or at least wouldve made it more difficult for them)