Looks like you have jude and his tactics figured out. We probably won't hear from him for a bit because of his "researching" or "training". When you do hear back from him he'll want to know how much you can bench, what karate bunkai you see in the Machida's fights, or how Mike Tyson counters punches. He'll back his facts up by saying he weighs 109kilos so you are wrong and refer to medulanet's posts. Friggin impossible, random, and weird dude that guy.

Interesting how you posted videos, you started a thread, asked questions yet when asked you didint seem to even knew what Machido was doing? or couldnt be bothered stating what he was doing? Or even finding the age uke that lead to a ko in the first video yet you state some MMA guy would come along and do what ever it is you stated?I would request again if you could get one video you posted and state exactly what Machido did to win and how kata is connected to those techniques?

Otherwise how can you reach your conclusions?

When it gets technical you seem to be at a loss?

Jude

The only thing I'm at a loss about is what the hell you are talking about,ever.

Like I asked before Are you talking about age uke in the Franklin fight?

Would someone please lock this thread and ban this douche already??

Guys, look in the site suggestions forum. I'm voting for a ban of jude33.

Do you actually go to regular Goju classes, which is how I would understand someone saying they practiced Goju of any variety and challenged others who teach and study Goju? You say you "study Sepai". I wonder whether any of the Goju practicioners here have a view as to whether you can study a system kata without actually training in that system beyond maybe mimicking the movements.

Jude you claimed to possess previously unseen detailed info on the Chinese origins and practice of Jion, not just supposition based on the starting salutation or the likelihood that many Okinawan kata came from China at some point. In fact you never posted anything beyond-and here comes the surprise-references to your "research". So if you think you proved it, humour me and please repost this research.

Quote:In any case the real problem here is the 2nd half of the posit....namely just being there is not enough...but if they effected MA practice, or if they effected it but nothing remains (n which case so what?) or what if any CURRENT practices remain.

Excellent post, cxt.

_________________________"In case you ever wondered what it's like to be knocked out, it's like waking up from a nightmare only to discover it wasn't a dream." -Forrest Griffin

That is kinda the point...."karate" is an umbrella term which has multiple and varied practices included.Its one of its strenghs--many different approachs and many different practics that seem to work equally well for different people.

Like any ecosystem diversity is a really good thing...keeps it healthy.

The term "karate" is vastly generic........depending on where people feel like drawing lines you can make a case for any given karate being really "alike" or very "different."

The thread isn't "pointless" it just looks that way depending almost utterly on where you want to draw your lines.

Machida may well be doing karate as he was taught and he understands it---which might be very different or very similer to what "I" am doing.Don't know enoug about the man to speak with any accuacy about....plus what he does has no real impact on me and my training, so I really don't think I could care less.

(might be nice to have that ammo for some on-line fight but otherwise....of what value is this to me??? )

Look at Kung-Fu been alot longer---so it has even more variation.As an example there is a classic and well regarded style (name escapes me at the momment) guy that founded it was an expert wrestler and fighter BEFORE he studied under the headmaster and focused manily on this style......so his version of the art "looks" and more importantly "feels" noticably different than the other whom trained with the same guy....and yet nobody thinks this is weird.

Its a aspect of western culture that we seem to feel a need to put everything in a box and lable it.

But back in the day in Okinawa, they were happy with very large, very general and very generic distinctions for their arts--large, broad, largely geographical distinctions---distinctions often that were attached to specific PEOPLE/TEACHERS and a bit less to specific arts.People would talk about say Naha-te in general THEN by way of specifics about exactly in whose dojo you were training.

What I belive is that "karate" as a generic term is far to broad to attach spcific labels to it.You want to label stuff you need to start with SPECIFC styles and work out a very broad strokes outline of commonality.

All Naha-te systems share some broad commonality for example--Goju, Uechi, Ruei-ryu etc.....might even argue they theu are "related" as it were...but you start looking at them really closely your going to find differences--even differences from teacher to teacher, student to student.

There isn't one. I'm sure you believe it is at about 1:00 in the video,but you would be wrong. jude

Oh there is one. A nice sneaky one. Watch his left arm go up then watch the other guys head go up as contact is made right under the guys chin. I think the guy is good and he is fast.And he knows how to use age uke. A karate guy.

Cant understand why it was missed ? But it is in very, very , very basic kata application.

Do you actually go to regular Goju classes, which is how I would understand someone saying they practiced Goju of any variety and challenged others who teach and study Goju? You say you "study Sepai". I wonder whether any of the Goju practicioners here have a view as to whether you can study a system kata without actually training in that system beyond maybe mimicking the movements.

B.

I train with a goju stylist.

As regards system kata ?

Shukokai and shito ryu Karate practice quite a few different kata. Including kata that would as you say belong to a goju system?

I see top shotokan instructors have also studied the kata. As regards training in that system, I dont think there is one as such. As I see it higher dan karate ka have their methods and each method is different. Nuts and bolts are there but application and training methods are worlds apart.

Regards Jion my historical research is complete althoughthe use/ application of the kata(s) would be never ending.

Glad you find it all amusing. Research can stir the hornets nest. I would be interested to know where you think ti originated from ? The roundhouse kick exists in trad karate kata. Why some say it doesnt well they will have their reasons.