If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You will have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Kashem

Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"

That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Resileaf

That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.

Its also worth pointing out that at the time, they would have only been competing with themselves. There were no other MOBA competitors until LoL, and DOTA 2 was coming out right at the same time they were developing their own. Creating their own game would have just pulled people off of Warcraft 3.

“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Kashem

Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"

Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went.

Originally Posted by Resileaf

That was before the merger with Activision. I dare theorize that Blizz was a lot more chill when they were their own company. I mean, they hired the guy who created the DotA game, no? They just went "We'll get the talent and we'll let him keep his creation and since he's our employee, we'll get his next ideas" or something.

yep.

Originally Posted by Keltest

Its also worth pointing out that at the time, they would have only been competing with themselves. There were no other MOBA competitors until LoL, and DOTA 2 was coming out right at the same time they were developing their own. Creating their own game would have just pulled people off of Warcraft 3.

WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?

Last edited by KorvinStarmast; 2018-07-12 at 11:31 AM.

Originally Posted by Malifice

(paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.

Originally Posted by greenstone

Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.

Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast

Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went. yep.

WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?

I mean a hypothetical blizzard DOTA released before LoL.

“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Kashem

I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"

The official entry, the Halloween-themed Extreme Candy Wars, was free...and also tried hard to replicate World of Warcraft heroes (Never playing WoW myself, I can't fully attest to that; but the weird rage/energy instead of mana on warrior/rogue does fit what I've read).

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Sure. I was referring to a timeline, and DoTA only happened due to the way WC 3 implemented the hero feature, so it had to post date WC 3. Fair point on the Blizz versus LoL/Riot thing.

… Yes, I know, that's my point. MOBAs as a concept didn't really take off until Warcraft 3 and the custom map DOTA. At that point, theres no competition for Blizzard. Interested people need to buy Warcraft 3 anyway, DOTA is already a complex and well done map, and the only people Blizzard would be attracting are people who are already playing a Blizzard game. Then LoL came out, and there was actual incentive to have a competing game engine, but the original DOTA was still on Warcraft 3, so they functionally had a horse in that race already. then DOTA 2 started development, and suddenly the original DOTA wasn't in blizzard's camp so much anymore, which is, not coincidentally, around the same time that Heroes of the Storm started development as Blizzard DOTA.

“Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Keltest

Yes, I know, that's my point. MOBAs as a concept didn't really take off until Warcraft 3 and the custom map DOTA. At that point, theres no competition for Blizzard. Interested people need to buy Warcraft 3 anyway, DOTA is already a complex and well done map, and the only people Blizzard would be attracting are people who are already playing a Blizzard game. Then LoL came out, and there was actual incentive to have a competing game engine, but the original DOTA was still on Warcraft 3, so they functionally had a horse in that race already. then DOTA 2 started development, and suddenly the original DOTA wasn't in blizzard's camp so much anymore, which is, not coincidentally, around the same time that Heroes of the Storm started development as Blizzard DOTA.

Gotcha. Fair points all. I just found out that things are getting a bit more interesting.

At The International 2017, Dota 2's premier championship, Valve announced Artifact, a digital collectible card game designed by Magic: The Gathering creator Richard Garfield that builds upon the existing lore of Dota and its gameplay, such as having the same heroes and featuring three lanes. Artifact is expected to be released in late 2018.

WoTC is getting in on the act.

Originally Posted by Malifice

(paraphrased) Rulings are not 'House Rules.' Rulings are a DM doing what DMs are supposed to do.

Originally Posted by greenstone

Player agency doesn't mean they get to roll for everything. Agency means that they control their character's actions; you control the world's reactions to the character's actions.

Gosh, 2D8HP, you are so very correct (and also quite handsome) or so I am told ... by 2D8HP

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

So, an OotS 4x isn't in the works? I was dying to invade The Western Desert.

How about a turn-based OotS version of Axis and Allies? Or would it be more like Shogun? Well, in the south it might.

I miss the old games from when computer gaming was new. Turn-based strategy has fully migrated to phone-apps, but there was a lot of fun and replayability in the games designed back then. The graphics are far better now, and the gameplay is much faster and smoother for those who grew up with a keyboard and a controller in their hands but, for an old guy like me, twitch-control games are an exercise in training for years to be good enough to be considered mediocre.

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Kashem

Honestly, I feel like Blizz is just sore that DotA started as a modded Warcraft III map, and they got basically nothing from the fact that an entire genre was started on their platform. I've been shocked for ages that Blizz wasn't the first company to say, "Hey, there's a theme to these games that tons of people are playing on our Warcraft III servers, maybe we should try and monetize this?"

I would reckon so, indeed.

Originally Posted by KorvinStarmast

Uh, wasn't DoTA originally based on a StarCraft map/mission, but run in WC III? Aeon of Strife IIRC. I think that the key to making this mod was how the hero/leader was implemented in WC III with 4 skills ... and off it went. yep.

WC3 was already out; are you referring to one of the expansions, or WoW?

Hah, careful you'll hurt WC fans' feelings.

A lot of the maps and genres often attributed to WC3 were actually pretty popular back in SC:BW, before WC3 came out. But WC3 was... more recent? And mainstream? And had a much more powerful map editor. But yea the rudimentary genre of DOTA was already present in SC. Also tower defenses, which for some reason are also attributed to WC3 often... very popular in SC:BW.

Attention LotR fans

Spoiler: LotR

Show

The scouring of the Shire never happened. That's right. After reading books I, II, and III, I stopped reading when the One Ring was thrown into Mount Doom. The story ends there. Nothing worthwhile happened afterwards. Middle-Earth was saved.

Re: OOTS #1125 - The Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Peelee

I choose to believe there's an OotS mod for Sins of a Solar Empire.

It'd almost have to be on top of the E4X mod, as that's the one that introduced hero units. Probably have to expand it to 5-6 per faction, and maybe even put it on top of Interregnum. That way you can have the Empire as Tarqin's faction, Probably Xylon's faction as the warlords, and of course the OOTS as the plucky rebels.

Xylon of course would come as a dragon-riding Titan who mostly uses abilities that sacrifice his minions.