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Topic: Don Antonio - Startita (Read 8742 times)

I could wait no longer after speaking with someone about the opening of Don Antonio's in NY. I punched in the adddress and turns out I was 18 minutes away ! so.. under the river and thru the streets I went! I apologize for not having a good camera something has gone wrong with my blackberry camera does not focus so you will have to use you imagination a bit. Place is beautiful! Little bigger than keste with a lot of character and a nice big bar in the front. Roberto was there so I said hello but he was not very talkative ? He was busy doing some paperwork. we spoke briefly (still don't think he likes me for some reason? because of my comments on price of his course? or that I am just a little mobile guy with a huge passion?) He recommend I try the Montanara (fried pizza ) and thats exactly why I was there. Place has a very cool vibe! The oven area sits in the back of building up a 3 step level There is Really Nice kitchen prep area with more room than Keste. Cool thing is they have a camera directed on the prep table which is hooked to a big screen TV. so you watch your pizza being made from your chair !! The Waiter told me camera is linked in to Starita in Naples as well. Of course I spoke with the Pizziaolo and chatted up FWFire. He has aspirations of someday going mobile as well. The Dough looked different than Keste or Amano, not so fermented? I think they are doing a much shorter fermentation here and was told they also use no refridgeration. Oven may not have been to temp as it was just 11:45 when I arrived you can see that by the cheese on the Montanaro I would have also like just a little more to the edge coverage on the pizza, but believe me I did not leave a scrap of dough anywhere on that one. and the Margherita I took to go . Also the crumb shot shows the tight crumb which may be due to less fermentation and or lack of heat. But what do I know? On to the pizza WOW is my description of the Montanara Deep fried and cooked in a pan in the oven special sauce and topped with smoked Buffalo Mozzarella . The grease cooks off nicely and the flavor is fantastic! I wish I could carry a frier on my pick up now. I would have liked just 10 more seconds to melt the cheese as I was one of only 4 t ables at the time . The place was filling up nice when I left? In Honor of Larry I ordered a Margherita to go and had a slice there The salt level is down a bit from Keste? and in my humble opinion the pie although very good not as good as Keste, or Amano. Now Roberto will really hate me ? Well I will return when everything is Jammin and try again and will definitely order the Montanaro again!! Conrats and good luck wish you all the best !!cus I know you read this site Berto

Thanks Scott but I will never be competition for him thats for sure ! Margherita Was not as tender as Keste or Amano, and yes I ate the whole thing yesterday when I got home at 2 pm ! As Larry can attest reheat is a bit of a crap shoot with the neoplitan pizza. so hard to judge. The Montarano is Fabulous a must try Scott!

Craig, Silly me, Forgot to ask , but the waiter said it was different specially made by Mr. Starita for this pizza ? I will have to ask next time. I did not notice a large difference in the sauce between the 2. Maybe some sugar addded ? to go with the fried dough dough is exact same they use on pizza. I did grab a ggod scoop off the Marg and it was just a nice basic tomatoe tast little to no additives. When you coming back to NY ? there are a few more to try now !John

that box is really neat!!! the dough looks fresh.they are probably getting hammered with business.

john, how can anyone not like you? do you remember the demo at amano three years ago. don antonio made that fried pizza as part of the demo. he also explained the sauce procedure to all of us. it was the ciao tomatoes thickened thru cooking with only salt added. the crust had the fried flavor of a pizza hut style dd.with out any oily residue. Italians are known as masters when it comes to frying.

Thanks Larry! 3 years ago you kiddin me? And what did I have for Lunch today ?? The first demo I saw at Amano was Antonino Esposito I dont remember Don Antonio? or who he was at that point? The sauce pot, or the frying Anyway that Montarano baby was very good !! Not Hammered with bus very quiet 4-5 tables at 12:30 but night is probably a different story. The Pizziaolo told me they do dough different than Keste but still 0 refridgeration. oh they offer 8 different boxes vaiour themes shown on back I will put up photo later.John

FWIW, the deep fried pizza is easy. When I first saw the write up on don antonia, I made some right away, 1/2 inch of canola oil in a stainless skillet, infared thermo to 360 degrees, pancake shaped ball. Fry till crisp boths sides, top with warm sauce, just like a grilled pie, cheese, basil on an oven rack under the broiler till done. Outstanding. No pan, deep fryer, or wood oven required imo. John, you could make these skins at home before you leave for a gig I think, let them cool, and they will come right back to life in your oven. Thanks for the write up John. -Marc

Yes, it looks like it was mixed to the intensive stage, and oxidized in the process. That would account for a short fermentation period as well - getting the gluten developed at the front end for a quick rise.

I wonder if Neapolitans obsess about crumb the way we do But I do want to try that fried pizza - thanks for the write up John.

it looks like they are using the dough way too early for my tastes. Although this dough does look over mixed it will probably be quite good once its gone through way more fermentation. This is my biggest issue with the traditional neapolitan (room temp ferment only) pizzerias. What about the pizza served to that first customer of the day? They are going to get something that has not fermented enough. Yes it can be a decent pizza, but not an amazing one. Its usually a good idea to hit authentic neapolitan spots at the end of the dinner/lunch rush so you actually get a well fermented dough.

After talking to a few different neapolitans in the pizza business it seems like many of the famous pizzerias over there tend to do three batches of dough a day, but some only make two. If its a two batch a day kind of place its easy...just go near their closing time and your going to have awesome pizza, but if its a three batch a day kind of pizzeria it gets a bit trickier. The three batch a day places make one batch first thing in the morning when they get to the pizzeria that is used for mid lunch service through early dinner service. another batch made later in the day or with less yeast is used for the bulk of dinner service. The third batch is used for the very end of the night pizzas and some doughballs from this batch are put into the walk in for the beginning of lunch service the next day. (yes even pizzerias claiming to do room temp only ferments hold that dough overnight!)

I broke my internal pane of oven glass again, so I have been back to fried calzones lately myself. I have been in no hurry to replace the glass LOL!

scott123

After talking to a few different neapolitans in the pizza business it seems like many of the famous pizzerias over there tend to do three batches of dough a day, but some only make two. If its a two batch a day kind of place its easy...just go near their closing time and your going to have awesome pizza, but if its a three batch a day kind of pizzeria it gets a bit trickier. The three batch a day places make one batch first thing in the morning when they get to the pizzeria that is used for mid lunch service through early dinner service. another batch made later in the day or with less yeast is used for the bulk of dinner service. The third batch is used for the very end of the night pizzas and some doughballs from this batch are put into the walk in for the beginning of lunch service the next day. (yes even pizzerias claiming to do room temp only ferments hold that dough overnight!)

Roberto talks about a minimum of 24 hours of fermentation. From talking with Robert myself, he gave me the impression that most of his dough balls get used well beyond that 24 hours. While same day dough approaches can produce dramatically different results during earlier and later times in the day, I think that lunch and dinner doughs between a 24 to 36 hour ferment are going to be pretty similar.

While I think this is great advice for typical Neapolitan pizzerias, I don't think it applies to Roberto's places. I also believe that fermentation is not a factor in the issue John is witnessing.

While same day dough approaches can produce dramatically different results during earlier and later times in the day, I think that lunch and dinner doughs between a 24 to 36 hour ferment are going to be pretty similar.

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I do three day room temp rises all the time and that last 12 hours makes a big difference for me.

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I do three day room temp rises all the time and that last 12 hours makes a big difference for me.

I completely agree, 12 hours at the margin can make a HUGE difference.

Scott123,When Roberto showed us around Kestea few months ago, my memory is that he talked about 24 hours in bulk and a minimum of another 24 in balls. I remember him telling us that the plan is for 48 in balls and the reason is two-fold: 1) he gets the flavor he wants at 72 hours total (48 hours in balls), and 2) this gives him a safety margin if a batch should fail for some reason - he can bring the most recently balled dough up where it is warmer and use them after only 48 total hours (24 in balls) if necessary.

Logged

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza." Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Scott, are you using yeast for these rises? And what temps are you talking. I really have never stretched out fermentations that long. Sounds quite interesting. What type of yeast percentage are you using to achieve that? Also what flour(s) do you use. -marc

scott123

I guess we will have to disagree on this one. I do three day room temp rises all the time and that last 12 hours makes a big difference for me.

When I do 3 day room temp ferments, there's differences in the last 12 hours, but it's not that dramatic and I work with malted flours. When you remove those enzymes from the picture, the fermentation window widens. As long as you're fermenting at cellar temps (like Roberto does) and using a miniscule amount of yeast, fermentation stays pretty constant and doesn't run away on you towards the end.

The window from 6 to 18 hours is incredibly vast in terms of differences in fermentation. 60 to 72, much less. There's always going to be that optimum hour, that as a home baker, I try to hit, but, on a commercial level, using unmalted flour, 60-72 is acceptable and isn't cheating the customers consuming 60 hour dough.

Now, 24-36 is going to be more dramatic than 60-72 and less dramatic than 6-18. Maybe I missed the mark by saying 24-36, but since Craig's memory is better than mine, Roberto is at 72 (with most likely a 12 hour window), so I still stand by my statement that varying levels of fermentation are not a factor here. Assuming that the oven is at exactly the same temp, if Roberto's lunch pizza has noticeable differences when compare to his dinner pie, I'll eat my hat

Scott, are you using yeast for these rises? And what temps are you talking. I really have never stretched out fermentations that long. Sounds quite interesting. What type of yeast percentage are you using to achieve that? Also what flour(s) do you use. -marc

try .01 fresh yeast. I have done it with the RD 00 as well as caputo. Just make sure its in a cool area (I use my basement) Also, Dont worry if it rises more in the bulk stage than your used to. Good luck!

Scott, I don't know about robertos pizza from lunch to dinner. Are you sure he only does one batch per day? I guess I am really picky, but I only like the super fermented doughs...almost on the verge of death.