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This kind of pertains to Eva as well as other mecha of this type but why are the pilots required to be hot blooded and irrational like we see in Asuka. Granted, Asuka as a person is somewhat unbearable and Asuka herself is basically driven by the need to be the best there but is required in most super robot anime that the characters should be that? I don't know whether it is the idealistic hero thing or just plain tradition but Eva a shows that may not always be a good idea to have that kind of pilot and deconstructs quite violently this trope. Again, I ask why it required to have pilots like Asuka?

Although not every mecha does this, there is always a war against something, someone, some organization or some force threatening humanity but why is this prevalent in mecha anime? Granted, I hadn't acutally watched that many mecha anime and they may also use some innaccurate military strategy but still why is this so prevalent? Even Gag series have some of story going that involves some big bad dude trying to takeover the world or something like that but do shows like that need a story at all? Anyway I just want to ask why is this prevalent in the Gundam series especially or in other series?

This kind of pertains to Eva as well as other mecha of this type but why are the pilots required to be hot blooded and irrational like we see in Asuka. Granted, Asuka as a person is somewhat unbearable and Asuka herself is basically driven by the need to be the best there but is required in most super robot anime that the characters should be that? I don't know whether it is the idealistic hero thing or just plain tradition but Eva a shows that may not always be a good idea to have that kind of pilot and deconstructs quite violently this trope. Again, I ask why it required to have pilots like Asuka?

Hotbloodedness doesn't mean irrational, Hotbloodedness means that one has a very passionate or intense drive or fighting spirit.

Asuka is hotblooded because she has an intense fighting spirit, she takes to the fight more than anyone else in the story. But she is not irrational because of her hotbloodedness. Her irrationality comes from her tsundere personality, she has a strong attitude and character that makes her extremely tsuntsun and hard to work with.

Why is Asuka required in EVA? Because she is the GAINAX red head, GAINAX Bounce heir, the fanservice tsundere and her EVA requires her to synchronise. She is a GAINAX staple character, GAINAX always carries on legacies and homages their own anime. Asuka's roots can be traced back to Jung of Top wo Nerae!, as the hot headed rival of the main character.

Hotblooded characters having their powerful fighting spirit, prefers to solve conflicts with their fists, by smashing up the enemy directly. They are not irrational, they just choose the most direct path and end it quick. Hotblooded doesn't mean hotheaded, a pilot doesn't need to be an angry or hot tempered person. Angst has no relation to hotbloodedness as well.

Guy from Gaogaigar is the greatest example of an intelligent and calm hotblooded character, he tactically solves things by smashing them up.

Hotbloodedness is the passion and spirit, the drive to achieve something. Be it defeating enemies with a heroes' fighting spirit, completing scientific research as a scientist, grabbing the heart of someone you love, etc. Hotblooded heroes are easy to understand, hotblooded scientists are everywhere in mecha as well, for hotblooded love, look at Eureka 7.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guernsey

Although not every mecha does this, there is always a war against something, someone, some organization or some force threatening humanity but why is this prevalent in mecha anime? Granted, I hadn't acutally watched that many mecha anime and they may also use some innaccurate military strategy but still why is this so prevalent? Even Gag series have some of story going that involves some big bad dude trying to takeover the world or something like that but do shows like that need a story at all? Anyway I just want to ask why is this prevalent in the Gundam series especially or in other series?

Mecha is not a genre just for explosions, in fact the very first mecha series, Mazinger Z deals with the human will to do good or bad. 'With Mazinger Z, you can become a Devil or a God', Kouji deals with the internal struggle to do good with his invincible robot or become a rampaging devil. Mazinger itself was inspired by Tetsujin 28 and even earlier, Tetsuwan Atom(Astroboy), which tells of relations between robots and humans. Mecha anime always talks about philosophy and the mecha itself is an extension of the human spirit and ideals, to help the character achieve a goal.

'Some organisation threatening humanity' is not just prevalent in mecha, its prevalent in almost every story with fighting and conflicts out there. And military strategies were always inaccurate in fiction, besides military fiction like Tom Clancy, which also takes some liberties.

The important point of mecha in story perspective is not the war itself, but usually the struggle of the character and how he develops. The war is the stage, the story is the characters. Mecha is about the human will and spirit, its because its a human in the robot, it is called a mecha and not just a robot.

Gundam is not the representation of mecha, in fact Gundam is only a tiny portion of the gigantic genre. Gundams deals with humans attempting to solve human conflicts in wars and how the characters struggle and realise the good or bad of humanity.

People nowadays don't watch alot of mecha, the mecha genre is broader than any other genre out there. Simply because you can add mecha to any other genre.

You can have almost every genre out there as a mecha story. People just don't watch much mecha in the West, they don't know how broad mecha is and how much it really is about. Alot of mecha out there don't sell more toys than moe animes sell figures of the girls. While mecha itself suspends belief, it takes on genres alot more seriously than other genres, simply because death and violence is everywhere.

Many people still tend to sell the mecha short I think. The stereotype that it's all about action, violence and explosions 100% of the time is still unfortunately alive. I think C.A's done a pretty good job at showing otherwise, but it's also up to people to actually go out and experience a show in the genre to see whether their preconceived notions about it will hold true.

You can have almost every genre out there as a mecha story. People just don't watch much mecha in the West, they don't know how broad mecha is and how much it really is about. Alot of mecha out there don't sell more toys than moe animes sell figures of the girls. While mecha itself suspends belief, it takes on genres alot more seriously than other genres, simply because death and violence is everywhere.

So, in summary, I take it that moe is to otaku audiences today what mecha was for otaku yesterday?

Meaning to say, mecha anime is, probably was, just a trend — yes, they still help to sell toys today, but not as much as moe does. And within each trend exists the archetypes and stock characters that make up generic anime, mecha or otherwise.

Nothing much has changed except the chosen fad to make money out of, perhaps.

Anime is supposed to be giant commercials to sell stuff, but the commercial can also be a beautiful piece of art, a great story.

Mecha anime has lots of such great stories, its just that people do not have a clear idea of what it really is about.

Just like people who dislike mecha, there are also lots of people who dislike moe, thinking that moe is just fanservice and there's no depth in the story. The fact is that great stories exist in both mecha and moe.

I like mecha, but I wouldn't say I loved it. The best possible way for me to describe mecha is " its ok", just a neutral genre, that I will watch when recommended to do so. This does not say that I would put it at the top of my scheduled viewing list (pretty big, still catching up on 08's fall anime season), but nevertheless I would watch it, eventually.

To put it simply my feelings for mecha are no different to that of any other genre. I don't criticise and discriminate between genres, as I find this to be somewhat ignorant. Thus my attitude towards genres is similar to that of my attitude towards race. The important thing is not where you come from, its your qualities and characteristics that truly matter.

Why I dislike/like a certain anime or manga is allot more complex than simply the genre to which it belongs.

Lol after reading my post it seems very philosophical and gives the impression it has a deeper meaning. It doesn't, so don't look for one!!!

Just like people who dislike mecha, there are also lots of people who dislike moe, thinking that moe is just fanservice and there's no depth in the story. The fact is that great stories exist in both mecha and moe.

yup

i personally dont hate mecha shows, some of my favourites belong to this genre

but mecha alone is not enough, the good ones normally also consist of other elements, such as war, action, romance etc

This is an interesting topic. Personally, I am a mecha fan since the mid-eighties and only the last few years I have seriously started looking at other non-mecha anime.

From my experience mecha anime fans have their own fansites and forums. You can say that there is a major split between mecha and mainstream anime fandom ( or should I say non mecha anime?) with limited overlap.

The question of course is why. Fans don't just watch mecha anime for the mecha, the mecha is a tool to create a different world, to make the impossible possible, a world that is different, more exiting then our own. Similar to the function of magic in fantasy.

In contrast slice of life, high school, romance, etc try to keep the story in a more realistic setting to make it more recognisable. It's essentially the same split as in live action. Sci-fi escapism versus recognisable real life drama/comedy situations. People can easily enjoy both but some are more drawn to one side or the other.

Although I love the Gundam series but I haven't been watching mecha animes for quite some time. As that most mecha animes are focused on the issues of politics, terrorism, and war. There isn't one that has nothing to do with it. This is especially true with the Gundam series.

Of course, for the young audiences. They would most likely don't understand any of it and instead are totally amazed at the unique designs of mechas and also the intense and fierce battles between machines. However, for the ones who know what they are watching, the featured issues are actually rather interesting and also complicated. In most cases, it questions the general view of the global issues and offers its own version of a perspective. The creators of the mecha series obviously had done tons of hours of studying and research on the issues of war and terrorism to the point that they know it so well that it is obvious the creators know exactly what they are talking about. And accompanied by the various unique types of mecha designs, as well as character designs, animation, and cast of seiyuu. Its awesome!

However.. When I have time to watch anime, I prefer to watch something more interesting. Or perhaps to say, more enjoyable as opposed to spending hours on the issue of wars and terrorism over and over again. I usually give "9" ratings yet it always end up on my "on-hold" list as that rarely do I ever feel like watching it...

Nonetheless, thanks to all these mecha mangas and animes that there are so many awesome games which I do spend time on. I love Gundam games!

Although I love the Gundam series but I haven't been watching mecha animes for quite some time. As that most mecha animes are focused on the issues of politics, terrorism, and war. There isn't one that has nothing to do with it. This is especially true with the Gundam series.

Of course, for the young audiences. They would most likely don't understand any of it and instead are totally amazed at the unique designs of mechas and also the intense and fierce battles between machines. However, for the ones who know what they are watching, the featured issues are actually rather interesting and also complicated. In most cases, it questions the general view of the global issues and offers its own version of a perspective. The creators of the mecha series obviously had done tons of hours of studying and research on the issues of war and terrorism to the point that they know it so well that it is obvious the creators know exactly what they are talking about. And accompanied by the various unique types of mecha designs, as well as character designs, animation, and cast of seiyuu. Its awesome!

If by 'most', you're applying to the entire mecha genre and not just Real Robots, then you're wrong.

There are more mecha anime that deals with less politics, terrorism or war. In fact not all Real Robots deal with the 3 subjects as well. Conflict between humans is more for Real Robots, Super Robots mostly put humans against a greater threat than humanity itself, you don't do much politics with them.

In fact until Tomino created Gundam, there are not too many mecha animes that deals with politics, terrorism or war, because most of these mecha anime are indeed for kids.

Politics, terrorism and war could be a focal point for a number of Real Robots, but Super Robots almost always deals with the human spirit and how far it can be stretched. Super Robots are about humans doing impossible things with the power of sheer will.

People tend to look at Gundam for mecha, but to hardcore mecha fans, Gundam only represents the Real Robot genre. Most people don't know what Super Robots are about because to them mecha = Gundam and everything else that's different from Gundam is hard to accept.

There's also a recent group who thinks they've seen the best mecha anime ever, in the form of Gurren Lagann. Gurren Lagann is just another one of the great Super Robot animes in history, in fact Gurren Lagann's Spiral Energy is almost a direct copy of Getter Robo's Getter Rays and the Getter Robo series had always maintained its great epicness for more than 2 decades.

While Real Robots always had 'mature' topics like politics, terrorism and war, they do not go too deep into it and while being 'real', its unrealistic most of the time. In fact at times you have to suspend your belief more than you have to do for Super Robots. Realism is not for the mecha genre, mecha is about stretching the boundaries of humanity.

Also when mecha fans who watch both Real and Super Robots rank their best animes, the best would often be Super Robots. People should give Super Robots a try and not just stick with Gundam because its the only thing you've heard before.

[...]
Politics, terrorism and war could be a focal point for a number of Real Robots, but Super Robots almost always deals with the human spirit and how far it can be stretched. Super Robots are about humans doing impossible things with the power of sheer will.

[...]
While Real Robots always had 'mature' topics like politics, terrorism and war, they do not go too deep into it and while being 'real', its unrealistic most of the time. In fact at times you have to suspend your belief more than you have to do for Super Robots. Realism is not for the mecha genre, mecha is about stretching the boundaries of humanity.

Also when mecha fans who watch both Real and Super Robots rank their best animes, the best would often be Super Robots. People should give Super Robots a try and not just stick with Gundam because its the only thing you've heard before.

The division between Super Robot and Real Robot seems a bit artificial to me. Take for example Top O Nerae! Gunbuster, it blended elements of both and since that show the destinction between Super and Real robot has become trivial. Nor does comedy verus dark and serious distinguish between the two themes. Space RunawayIdeon is Super Robot but it doesn't get more darker then that, in contrast to FMP which is a Real Robot comedy.

The focus on either human spirit or socio-political critisism is not restricted to either as well. Heck, every Gundam since Gundam Wing has essentially been Super Robot. These days the politics and war type mecha shows have strong overlap with cyberpunk (since the decline of Space Opera) which explores the boundaries between man and machine. I can't help but feel that the distinction is often just an excuse for fans to bash themes they don't like in a mecha show.

The criteria to determine whether a series is Real or Super is not decided by a single factor. It is a combined number of factors that decides the genre.

One of the simplest fundamental factors is how far the suspension of belief is stretched.

Say a mecha that deals with politics, war and terrorism. But its about a main character from a parallel universe with psychic powers, piloting a 40 meter tall biomechanical mecha. He is fighting against a secret organisation that's full of psychic time travellers who came from the future to stop the world from becoming the future they came from.

The title mecha is also a gattai of 5 vehicles to a core mecha and it is powered by the psychic powers and sheer will of the main character. Its main weapon is a sword formed by his psychic powers holding a 1 piece of 1 dimensional space in the form of a blade.

I'm sure this easily falls under Super Robots, because it suspends belief too far to be 'Real'.

Technology itself doesn't determine whether its real or super, its how they display it.

Gunbuster is powered by 2 Degenerating Reactors, with the output of more than 2 suns. It takes on Space Monsters that consumes stars and make nurseries out of them. Gunbuster then took on a enemy force thats several billions by itself. But no Gunbuster is not alone, because Gunbuster is Noriko and Kazumi. And Gunbuster is not the ultimate mecha because it has so much power. Gunbuster is the ultimate mecha because Noriko and Kazumi has Effort, Determination and Guts.

"Each of you is a flame (火), but together, you will become a blaze (炎)!"

Coach's words to Noriko and Kazumi. Super Robots emphasise that its the human spirit that's behind the power of the mecha, the mecha is absolutely nothing without its true pilot. Its the will and hotbloodedness from a Super Robot pilot that makes a Super Robot anime what it is.

Xanbungle mecha are weak ground roaming mecha with technological levels the same as a truck, they are powered by Gasoline Engines. But they emphasise one thing, Determination and Guts. Walker Garia the main character mecha is famous for stopping a gigantic nuclear ICBM when its powered only by a Gasoline Engine. It doesn't stop there, Jiron the pilot, decides to throw the gigantic rocket back to the enemy ship and blows it up.

Comedy and darkness? I never went to that point at all. The most I said was that war, politics and terrorism are found mostly in Real Robots, Super Robots mostly deal with threats greater than humanity itself. Mostly is the word I use. After all I did mention that mecha anime, as a whole, works with almost every genre you can come up with. Be its Super or Real, any genre can fit.

The only Super Robot Gundam is still G Gundam, its the only Gundam that carries a Super Robot spirit. A hotblooded martial arts tournament to settle world politics? Yea, Super Robot.

All other Gundams are dealing with realistic problems in the manner of politics, wars and terrorism, just that they have a powerful mecha. And like I mentioned above, the power of a mecha does not determine whether its Real or Super.

In case you do not know, we SRW players rank Astranagant/ Dis Astranagant, Real Robots, in the top 10 of strongest mechas ever. Simply because they are Real Robots that transcend space/time and have an infinite energy source running on souls of the dead from parallel universes. They are impossibly strong but they are Real Robots by nature of their stories.

Of course nowadays we SRW fans also recognise 'Hybrids'. Hybrids are mecha series where there's really no line, an example being Eureka 7.

In a story that deals with realistic matters, a Hotblooded young teen in love with an human form of a mysterious non human species, piloting a biomechanical Real Robot with powers on the global or even dimensional scale. By doing realistic research on LFO archetypes, applying Real Robot technology to make mecha out of the archetypes, they are essentially Real Robots. But Nirvash runs on the love between Renton and Eureka, hoping to save the world. Hard to decide is Real or Super, one of the very few people recognise as a Hybrid.

Real and Super Robots are officially recognised by anime and game creators, its not for people to bash themes, its just sub genres. Super Robots are like super hero stories, Real Robots are like war stories or normal action heroes, just that all of them are sci-fi.

I understand the value of dividing shows up in Super and Real robot to make games like SRW or RPGs playable, but trying to squeeze mecha anime in these two positions is too constraining. This is not aimed at you, but just my annoyance with the need of people to file things away neatly. With a lot of mecha themed anime having elements of both. While the terms have become commonplace, they are also carry a stigma, not to mention having to hear to constant debate over which is better.

Also how far would one need to go in terms of suspension of disbelief? Taking SDF Macross as an example: The SDF-1 taking on 5 million Zentradi ships is still Real Robot? But Gunbuster nuking the aliens is Super Robot? Aren't these both stories of the human spirit and coming of age?

What about shows that don't have mecha but qualify on everything else? For example Haruhi Suzumiya can easily be seen as a mecha show disguised as a high school comedy (like an inverted Evangelion). Space Battleship Yamato, Dominion Tank Police?

Mazinger-Z is even more troublesome as it pretty much defined Super Robot while also laying the ground works for Super Sentai, anime Cyber Punk and Real Robot. These days hybrids are fairly common, Eureka 7 is one indeed, but also Rahxephon and Macross Frontier would qualify.

Ironic is that Gurren Lagann, as close to the pure Super Robot ideal as possible, has shown that Space Opera is still viable, the genre which in turned created the first Real Robots anime. Fortunatly in the end its the show that has to prove itself not what type of mecha it contains.

The only mecha show which I have really liked was Evangelion. Actually, I think it's the only mecha show I finished. I didn't like it because of the mecha, rather the fact that everyone was nuts and how the organizations were run but those fights were definitely icing on the cake. Is it just me or do mecha shows often put emo kids in those robots? (Oh, it's just Shinji) But stuff exploding everywhere while pressing buttons is pretty cool; can't deny that. Actually Big O was pretty cool too.

Ironically, my favorite Sunrise series (Mai-Hime) is not a mecha show.

Macross didn't run on human spirit and Macross didn't take on the entire Zentradi alone, Macross itself was also an entire miltary force. Hardcore Macross fans really hate associating Macross with Super Robots, so much that they hate Macross 7.

All mecha tells of the human spirit, as I mentioned in my post on top of the page. But Super Robots run on the human will itself. As long as you have courage, love, determination guts and the hotbloodedness, your mecha will continue to fight.

Using the early Real Robots to compare to Super Robots is not accurate because while Gundam is said to have created the Real Robot genre, the early Real Robots are very much Super Robots with organised military structures. These not so hotblooded, less powerful super robots that are miltary styled, basically formed the foundations for Real Robots. Macross is also famous for its applications of ship and squad formation and tactics to create realistic battles.

A mecha is called a mecha because its a pilot in a robot. No pilot or robot = not mecha. If anything is 'disguised' as a mecha, its Nanoha. Haruhi has no mecha elements in it. I don't really see an 'inverted Evangelion', but Evangelion itself is not a prime example of mecha. After all its the series that changed mecha forever, bringing in a makeover that's both positive and negative. Eva may have created an emo trend, but so called 'emos' have long existed back in old school mecha. Eva being inspired from Ideon, Cosmo himself is one 'emo' character. Like Archon Wing said, he didn't like EVA because of the mecha. Evangelion's mecha element is overshadowed by everything else in the story, its run by character and plot so much, you can almost remove the mecha completely.

Rahxephon definitely can't fit as a Real Robot, therefore its not a Hybrid. Blue blooded humans, mecha that are basically gods and songs that can alter reality itself. Anything that 'is god itself' would instantly fall into Super Robots. Rahxephon was a homage to Reideen, with the Mu race and title mecha being gods.

Terrain doesn't matter, be it space, land, air or sea, or terrain is just one of the minor factors. Its the pilot, mecha and the entire setting that determines whether its Super or Real. Vandread was pure Space Opera, but its a Super Robot anime.

That's a nice way to distinguish between the super and real. I tend to distinguish real and super by the overall feeling from the show through combination of the theme, characters, the plots, and mood it gives out. It's kinda annoying to distinguish them so just getting feel of the show is lot easier for me .