Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

GREEDY PUNK PAUL ALLEN, THIS LOSS IS ON YOU."I don't give a crap WHAT you gotta pay, Kam is worth it and I don't want to lose a shot at another SB cuz you - a freaking BILLIONAIRE, are cheapskating Kam over a freaking $900,000.You cheapskate." SalishHawkFan SEP 13, 2015 1:47 PM

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

That wasn't his point. It was that some players (regardless of position) take time to acclimate to the NFL.

GREEDY PUNK PAUL ALLEN, THIS LOSS IS ON YOU."I don't give a crap WHAT you gotta pay, Kam is worth it and I don't want to lose a shot at another SB cuz you - a freaking BILLIONAIRE, are cheapskating Kam over a freaking $900,000.You cheapskate." SalishHawkFan SEP 13, 2015 1:47 PM

It took 3 years for Tate to 'get' it. Sidney Rice took 3 years to 'get' it. It took our safeties a year to 'get' it. And so on and so on. We're kind of spoiled because Russell Wilson is so intelligent he already 'gets' it, but he's the exception. Irvin will continue to get better. How much remains to be seen, but PC and JS didn't pick him based on his high floor, you know?

Last edited by Sarlacc83 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

GREEDY PUNK PAUL ALLEN, THIS LOSS IS ON YOU."I don't give a crap WHAT you gotta pay, Kam is worth it and I don't want to lose a shot at another SB cuz you - a freaking BILLIONAIRE, are cheapskating Kam over a freaking $900,000.You cheapskate." SalishHawkFan SEP 13, 2015 1:47 PM

pehawk wrote:Irvin will be fine. Tate, Earl, Kam all stunk up the joint in year 1. Arguably worse than Bruce did.

I know we hold Earl up on a pedastal here, but he got USED by any QB not a rookie in year 1.

DE is a totally different animal than WR, FS, SS.

Umm, yeah, that helps my point.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Most DE have slow development, isn't it kinda notorious for having a large learning curve?

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

Not really. Developing as a WR, FS, and SS is more about the cerebral aspect of the game and learning it. Yes, Irvin needs that as well.

But the bigger concern is does he have the strength and size he needs? I'm not so sure. You can't just use speed as an edge rusher in the NFL - as we saw, tackles just learned to ride him right out of the pocket over and over again. Technique is a big part of that, but he needs to be able to attack with strength as well.

Most DE have slow development, isn't it kinda notorious for having a large learning curve?

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

He is 9lbs lighter than Clem. <---------- Why does everyone here ignore that? Size is not a problem.

Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.

kearly wrote:Football technique is a bigger problem for Irvin than his size (added football to avoid "that's what she said" joke). Dan Quinn could legitimately have an impact there. I still think that Irvin is so far away that it would require a revelatory transformation to see him as a 3 down player. But if anyone could do it, Quinn could.

Agreed, but "bigger" problem still means his size could be a problem. I don't know that it is...it just seems like it could be.

He is 9lbs lighter than Clem. <---------- Why does everyone here ignore that? Size is not a problem.

It's not being ignored. As I said earlier, everyone is built differently. It's not just about raw weight differential, it gets into biophysical aspects like muscle fiber, tone, center of gravity, shoulder span, arm length, etc. Clemons looks a little more stout to me.

If you watch Clemons and you watch Irvin, you can't possibly tell me you don't see a difference in the strength aspect of how they attack an offensive linemen. Again, that could come from technique. But it's perfectly acceptable to wonder if Irvin has enough sand in his bag so to speak. I don't get why people are getting so defensive about it.

Quinn can help, but Bruce has to take the lessons being taught to him and actually use them and work on them constantly. Kinda like how Russell, week by week, always seemed to improve a part of his game that the previous week seemed to be some type of weakness, like 3rd down conversions, redzone, etc.

Hawkfan77 wrote:Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

Hawkfan77 wrote:Irvin was pretty dang raw coming into the league. He played end in a 3-4 at WVU! He's had little time to play end in a 4-3 and we all knew that it would take time for him to maximize his potential.

Even though he was so saw he still led all rookies in sacks. It's funny, most were very high on him before the ATL game and when he disappointed, a lot of those same people now claim that he's nothing more than a situational player or he needs a new position...

Welcome to .net, where hyperbole and overreaction are the norm.

If it was up to the .net majority Flynn would have been the starter this year.

Hasselbeck wrote:Matt Flynn should be our starter. Wilson is nothing more than a backup and will never amount to anything in this league.

Blitzer88 wrote:Quinn can help, but Bruce has to take the lessons being taught to him and actually use them and work on them constantly. Kinda like how Russell, week by week, always seemed to improve a part of his game that the previous week seemed to be some type of weakness, like 3rd down conversions, redzone, etc.

DE and QB are two different animals, and Wilson is in a class of his own. Most rookies hit a wall. Just because Irvin had trouble playing leo the first game at the position doesn't mean he won't improve.