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Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by donc

"America's Triple-A credit "at one time that that meant something to politicians in this country. Kinda looks like its being used as a bargaining chip for the republican party now. This can mostly be traced back to the decision by george the second, that wars should be kept off the general budget; the old outa site outa mind theory.

the total cost of both wars over a decade is roughly comparable to the cost of Obama's Stimulus Program. the Social Security Trust Fund has been raided for years prior to Bush W's Administration; though agreeably he continued it. He tried to reform the system to save Social Security (and the rest of us) some of this pain in 2005; but the GOP abandoned him and Democrats screamed bloody murder. Our choices today would be much wider if he had succeeded, but sadly he did not.

like private industry before, and the States now, the pension systems we built for an industrial-era society with a lifespan of 65 and a birthrate of 3+ is no longer sustainable. it will be altered. the only question is the degree of control we wish to exercise over that process.

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by cpwill

the Bowles Simpson commission said raise the retirement age just like those folks did.

however, in other places on this forum I have gone through the numbers and described the effects of personalized accounts on low-income workers. namely, they can retire financially independent, and even in a worst-case-scenario they make more than twice as much in returns as they would from Social (in)Security. A man could never make more than 32 K a year his entire working life, and still retire a millionaire.

then you now recognize they did NOT say the same exact things
Bowles did NOT advocate investing the social security reserves in the stock market

we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it ​

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by cpwill

the total cost of both wars over a decade is roughly comparable to the cost of Obama's Stimulus Program. the Social Security Trust Fund has been raided for years prior to Bush W's Administration; though agreeably he continued it. He tried to reform the system to save Social Security (and the rest of us) some of this pain in 2005; but the GOP abandoned him and Democrats screamed bloody murder. Our choices today would be much wider if he had succeeded, but sadly he did not.

like private industry before, and the States now, the pension systems we built for an industrial-era society with a lifespan of 65 and a birthrate of 3+ is no longer sustainable. it will be altered. the only question is the degree of control we wish to exercise over that process.

the only change required to the social security program to continue its solvency is the elimination of the cap on social security contributions such that high earners are compelled to pay on their entire wage, just as low wage earners are
that regressive tax policy needs to be ended

we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it ​

Re: The results are in on social security

the video claimed that calls for raising the retirement age were indicative of some kind of Koch Buy Off Conspiracy. At that point I was laughing too hard to pay attention, and stopped watching.

Bowles did NOT advocate investing the social security reserves in the stock market

that's correct. although it remains an excellent idea - we would like some way for benefits to remain high enough to help our poorer retirees, but we have no option but to cut future expenditures. latching contributions to a growth engine is an excellent way to accomplish both those goals.

the only change required to the social security program to continue its solvency is the elimination of the cap on social security contributions such that high earners are compelled to pay on their entire wage, just as low wage earners are that regressive tax policy needs to be ended

even the AARP is now admitting that popping the cap doesn't pay for Social Security. since benefits are linked to inputs, all you are doing is increasing Social Security's future liability. You would need to means-test the payout structure in order to make this even beneficial, and it still wouldn't be nearly enough.

For the most part, the Trustees’ reports [of 2011] are reruns of last year. First, let’s look at Social Security. Actuaries estimate that the unfunded liabilities of Social Security are $17.9 trillion. This means that the government would need to have $17.9 trillion in the bank, today, earning interest at the government borrowing rate in order to fund these programs into the infinite horizon. Oh, but lest I mention there is a $2.6 trillion trust fund that will take care of part of it this liability. Oh, really? Contrary to the mantra that this trust fund will be around until 2037, for all intents and purposes, that ship has sailed. The trust fund money is nothing more than IOUs written to the Treasury while the money has been borrowed and spent on other programs. Technically, this money belongs in the net unfunded liability column, bringing the total unfunded liability into the infinite horizon to $20.5 trillion....

we don't have 20 Trillion. we have negative 14.5 trillion. the real debt that the US owes - which includes her unfunded liabilities - is larger than the GDP of every nation on earth combined. we have literally promised to give ourselves more wealth than the total production of humankind. "popping the cap" on the payroll tax isn't going to fix that.

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by Misterveritis

There has never been a surplus.

Thanks for your opinion. "Social Security is far from bankrupt, with a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus. The federal government has borrowed most of that surplus to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Wall Street bank bailouts, and the Bush-era tax cuts. The government is now wondering how to pay back the loan – it's not their money – it belongs to Social Security."

Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by Catawba

Thanks for your opinion. "Social Security is far from bankrupt, with a $2.6 trillion dollar surplus. The federal government has borrowed most of that surplus to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Wall Street bank bailouts, and the Bush-era tax cuts. The government is now wondering how to pay back the loan – it's not their money – it belongs to Social Security."

Re: The results are in on social security

You are correct, the surplus is invested in U.S. Treasuries, back by the government.
(Where have you been, haven't seen you in awhile?)

Hey PB, just been real busy with work and life. Yep, time for those that got the benefits of tax cuts at the expense of the future SS recioients to start paying back the money.

Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Re: The results are in on social security

From my understanding we still need to do something within the next 25 years. To me the best solution in the mean time to extend this by perhaps another few years is to raise retirement age by 5 years up right now.

"We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by JohnWOlin

From my understanding we still need to do something within the next 25 years. To me the best solution in the mean time to extend this by perhaps another few years is to raise retirement age by 5 years up right now.

I would raise the FICA cap first and place the funds coming in through payroll taxes for SS off limits to general fund spending. The hawks will have to find some other way to fund their imperialist efforts.

Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

Re: The results are in on social security

Originally Posted by Catawba

I would raise the FICA cap first and place the funds coming in through payroll taxes for SS off limits to general fund spending. The hawks will have to find some other way to fund their imperialist efforts.

Yeah sure do that too.

"We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan