So I've been reading a couple threads on the weight board tonight that seemed to go together but in an inverse way.

I've read, in essence:

"I want to be desired, but as a whole person, and not just a fat body."

"This guy says he loves SSBBWs so he should be true to that desire and only date SSBBWs, right?"

I see both perspectives as completely valid, and yet they can't coexist very easily. If someone only likes SSBBWs then what happens if the SSBBW loses weight? It's a bit of a pickle, and it can be difficult on both sides of the equation.

And when I say "it can be difficult on both sides of the equation" what I really mean to say is life is heart wrenchingly beautiful, unresolved, and right now.

I don't really know where I'm going with this post... but I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts on the matter. also, it might be nice to weigh in with personal experience instead of abstract philosophical musing. feelings... that's where it's at!

"This guy says he loves SSBBWs so he should be true to that desire and only date SSBBWs, right?"
If someone only likes SSBBWs then what happens if the SSBBW loses weight?
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I've battled with these questions for years from some of my family members...who think that sometimes I date women just because they are fat!
OK...its true! LOL...but if I was really into someone and she lost weight...I would still love her. Bottom line...what if my appearance changes...would she still love me?

I've battled with these questions for years from some of my family members...who think that sometimes I date women just because they are fat!
OK...its true! LOL...but if I was really into someone and she lost weight...I would still love her. Bottom line...what if my appearance changes...would she still love me?

Well, yeah, but loving someone and wanting to stay with them forever are two different things. Let's just be clear. I've definitely been in love with thin women and it's like I just don't think I can deal with this long term. The fact that I love them just makes it more painful.

I've written about something similar in the past and I very often worry about this too. Ultimately she was in the lower 200's when we met and is currently 300+. And I most certainly objectify her (not something I'm proud of but I am extremely physically attracted to her as well as emotionally. If she lost weight would I still want her (I will always love her) I think it depends on how much weight she lost. Baring a serious illness she isn't losing 200 lbs any time soon. What I'm trying to say is I was gaga for her at 220 and I'm still gaga at over 300. Now this is probably shallow but if she were 150 lbs I'd probably have a problem desiring her physically.

If you're talking about objectifying women, I find myself doing it in a different way than just objectifying fat vs. not fat. I tend to focus on particular body parts. I'm always talking about, "Oooo...she has great breasts," or "ooo...she has thick thighs." And I'm not often very attracted to women who have breasts or thighs that are less big. Ironically, my wife, who is a BBW and who is bi, does the exact same thing. She loves butts and will talk about women who have big butts, but tends to pay significantly less attention to women who don't. There may be a sub-section of FAs who are also BPAs (body-part admirers.)

all we ask is that those without fetishes respect the notion that the vast majority of fetish-havers know how to reconcile their kink with the dangers of reality just as you would assume your next door neighbor is not a pedophile.

I posted about this elsewhere but I have had 2 instances where BHM partners lost weight. Both were men I knew through work and in addition to the sexual relationships, I was able to see them in professional situations where their intelligence, work ethic, and talent were highlighted. Both were also very funny, and anyone of any gender or size who can make you laugh is generally good to be around. Both lost weight. In once case, I still very much loved the person; we had a personal friendship as well as a sexual relationship and he was a great friend. I continued to be able to appreciate his personal qualities but I was less sexually attracted after the weight loss. I did not love him less, but the sexual attraction was less.

In the other case, the guy and I had an intense mind-blowing personal chemistry. We had an amazing physical and mental connection. I simultaneously never wanted to keep my hands off him or stop talking to him. Any contact, even a text message brought me immense happiness. He lost weight after I had not seen him for several months. I almost reflexively converted the weight loss into positive ideas; I admired his hard work and discipline in going to the gym, I admired his perseverence in losing the weight since I knew a fat guy going to the gym as a beginner might be self conscious, I took notice of how a lot of the weight loss showed in his face and it made his eyes stand out more, I shared his pride in his accomplishment.

So really, from my personal experiences I'd say there are an infinite number of variables including the relationship outside of the bedroom, the particular chemistry between partners, the level of "FA-ness" in the FA, the importance of sex in a relationship.

I almost reflexively converted the weight loss into positive ideas; I admired his hard work and discipline in going to the gym, I admired his perseverence in losing the weight since I knew a fat guy going to the gym as a beginner might be self conscious, I took notice of how a lot of the weight loss showed in his face and it made his eyes stand out more, I shared his pride in his accomplishment.

So really, from my personal experiences I'd say there are an infinite number of variables including the relationship outside of the bedroom, the particular chemistry between partners, the level of "FA-ness" in the FA, the importance of sex in a relationship.

I've never experienced the latter example but I'm glad to know someone has.

"This guy says he loves SSBBWs so he should be true to that desire and only date SSBBWs, right?"
If someone only likes SSBBWs then what happens if the SSBBW loses weight?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've battled with these questions for years from some of my family members...who think that sometimes I date women just because they are fat!
OK...its true! LOL...but if I was really into someone and she lost weight...I would still love her. Bottom line...what if my appearance changes...would she still love me?

I believe that there is an innate confusion between physical love and attraction and the intangable attraction of love between a couple.
If I were to love a woman and love her deeply her appearance would be of no regard and she would know that I truly loved her. If she lost a quantity of weight would I find her to be as physically attractive to me? Probably not, however I would still share the heartfelt adoration and love for her as a person and a woman.
Would I still find her attractive? Yes, but not in the lust inducing way that she as a fat person generates in me as an FA. Ultimately she is still the same person that I fell in love with before she lost weight. She would just look different.
Rollhandler

I don't know if this is where this topic is trying to go, but my stance on the matter of objectifying/basing your decision to interact with any given woman is that I base my initial decision on whether or not I find myself attracted to the woman in question. If I am, I will persue her, if not, I won't. I do realize that these women I desire are individuals just like myself and a relationship with them would have to be primarly based on chemistry between our two personalities, but by the same coin, I have to be attracted to that person as well. If I'm not, then there's a very rare chance that I'm going to be interested in the woman in the first place.

I believe that there is an innate confusion between physical love and attraction and the intangable attraction of love between a couple.
If I were to love a woman and love her deeply her appearance would be of no regard and she would know that I truly loved her. If she lost a quantity of weight would I find her to be as physically attractive to me? Probably not, however I would still share the heartfelt adoration and love for her as a person and a woman.
Would I still find her attractive? Yes, but not in the lust inducing way that she as a fat person generates in me as an FA. Ultimately she is still the same person that I fell in love with before she lost weight. She would just look different.
Rollhandler

I kinda like where rollhandler was going with this, but I want to take it a step further.

What most guys have here is an attraction to fat, curvy women, no different than guys who like redheads, or large breasts, etc.......

What happens when I guy likes large boobs, and his object of desire has a mastectomy due to breast cancer. Does he move on? Does he stay with who he loves, yet yearns for another? Is that fair to the other person?

Change is inevitable. Rollhandler's point about how love factors into that can't be emphasized enough. Love can carry one through any change, if one truly knows how to love, and realizes that love is not just about body size or form. It's just the package that houses the person.

Soooooooo.......if it's just a physical thing between you & your objectified woman or man, and they're down with it, then so be it if they lose weight, and change the parameters of what you saw in them. However, when love comes into the picture, all that goes out the window.

__________________"O Lord, help me to be pure, but not yet." ~ Saint Augustine

I don't know if this is where this topic is trying to go, but my stance on the matter of objectifying/basing your decision to interact with any given woman is that I base my initial decision on whether or not I find myself attracted to the woman in question. If I am, I will persue her, if not, I won't. I do realize that these women I desire are individuals just like myself and a relationship with them would have to be primarly based on chemistry between our two personalities, but by the same coin, I have to be attracted to that person as well. If I'm not, then there's a very rare chance that I'm going to be interested in the woman in the first place.

Have you ever thought about the question How deep is your love? Or what the question implies in regards to connections and attraction in relationships?

They say love has to grow and deepen. But where does love initially start?
Love begins with infatuation and is shallow and visual. This is how humans are designed to attract each other. However once the initial attraction is made love has to deepen to grow. I have always maintained that men and women sexually and in relationships want the exact same things but go about getting them differently and for different genetic hardwired reasons.

Women want sex as much as men do and masturbate in the absence of a quality mate or fulfil the need with casual sex. The perception of the acts in question are merely percieved differently by society standards and how we treat those who act them out.

Men want love as much as women do but the trait is seen as a flaw or weekness in the natural selection process in favor of other more aggressive qualities. This is seen all over the place in how women are tired of seeing emotional men (pussies) and want one more aggressive, especially in the bedroom. This reinforces the aspect in men that aggressive behaviour is prized by women over the emotional, we react in nature accordingly in order for us to attract the partner who can provide support for our emotional and sexual needs. This also reinforces my point of going about getting our male human needs fulfilled differently than women who are allowed by nature and society to display these traits openly to attract males.

Men and women want the same things from intimate relationships as much as the other but once again the perception of how we go about achieving this is different.

If men were only sexually driven creatures there would be no relationships nor marriage for any other reason than to propogate the species. There would be no masturbation, nor sex with any woman outside of her optimum fertilization period. He would only marry those women he could continually make pregnant with success. There would be no intimacy related to the act.

If women were only sexual creatures then there would only be sex when an optimum male was available to do so. they would be just as sexually aggressive as males and they would not have sex outside of their optimum fertilization period, masturbate, or deal in sex practices outside of that optimum state. Casual sex would be last resort to pass genes on and be with a single mindedness of propogation at all costs. Once again no intimacy

If men and women were ONLY emotional creatures they would meet, connect, and never be attracted to another until or even after death, and vanity of physical appearance would not be relevant qualities in either gender.
intimate sexuality would only occur later in the relationship once emotional depth was achieved. It would not be a hormonal response to physical stimuli.

In men and women once the initial visual/physical attraction is made certain receptors in the brain shut down causing some flaws in personality to be overlooked so that one pays more attention to other traits of what attract two people. This is why a woman can get horny and wet looking at a well built man and men get erections and want to take the woman they just saw to bed.

The natural response of both toward the other is more physical, sexual and shallow. We are taught that this response to stimuli is the desire to want to get to know the male/female better on other levels. The response to initial attraction is more basic, animalistic, and sexual more often than not. Women are trained since birth to see it as something else, and not act on the sexual until the emotional can be satisfied as well. Men are taught to pursue it aggressively at this level. We test and temper each other in society to achieve the end result of the lifelong relationship through our dating games and mating rituals.

Once the couple is together and the shiny penny has worn a bit nature has given them a chance to get to know each other a bit and the relationship begins to heighten and deepen as they share experiences, and each other on a level more than just physical. If not, they stagnate. The flaws that weren't perceived initially become an issue and the relationship either ends or continues unhappily. Some couples never achieve emotional depth and don't realize it until something in the physical appearance of one partner or the other changes and they no longer feel an attraction toward that partner. These couples inevitably either accept their lot and continue or break up.

The couples that stay together through physical changes and life are the ones who have deep and abiding connections with their partners through the emotional connections they have nurtured over time. We as humans have an sense of instant gratification and although we desire the instant connection for a mate to see our minds as attractive as well as our bodies the initial attraction of our species is just not that way and we still seem shocked and offended when it just doesn't happen fast enough even though we realize that instant connections are rare without the initial visual connection to pave the way and create the desire necessary for intimate relationships to grow.

Men and women seek different qualities in each other. Both just as shallow as the other initially. I've been turned down for dates based on my income, some for looks, and for others it was my manner of deportment. Women are hardwired to seek men who can provide security(on various levels), genetic material for optimum offspring, safety, and income, amongst other things. A lot of time they see his ability to provide these things initially, in physical appearance, and translate that subconciously into intelligence ambition, and a level of aggression toward being able to provide these things.

This is why there are "guys, post pictures of your (insert name of masculine body part here.)" threads. Women just look for different characteristics within the physical traits and extrapolate differently the percieved abilities of a man on a basic subconcious level.

Men are visually driven but what we look for is different things in attraction and more driven toward the womans ability to pass on our genetic material. With men and women both, nature takes us to the most basic level of what traits we look for in a mate before we look deeper to the person for what will sustain the relationship past the point of infatuation.
Anyway enough rambling, on with the thread.
Rollhandler

The bottom line is that I think most male FAs have a comfort zone, being very visual in terms of sexual attraction as all men are, in terms of size for a partner.

This comfort zone isn't a specific weight, it's just a general size. If a woman is too thin and fits outside the comfort zone, it's difficult to develop and maintain an erection while trying to engage her in sex.

When Haunted says: "Now this is probably shallow but if she were 150 lbs I'd probably have a problem desiring her physically." ...

... Umm not it's not shallow because if you can't get it up and have sex you can't get it up. It's not something you should feel bad about! The girl is not turning you on. A physical component to a relationship is very important.

I think the "comfort zone" fluctuates throughout an FAs life, but I'm willing to bet many FAs out there have had that experience where you've tried to have sex with normal or chubby girls and you were into them, but physically you just could not develop and/or maintain an erection, and that you felt you were "forcing" yourself to become erect in the first place in order to consummate the sex act.

As an interesting side note, I think watching SSBBW porn has a negative effect on the comfort zone, in that smaller girls who might have done it for you before are now too small.

The bottom line is that I think most male FAs have a comfort zone, being very visual in terms of sexual attraction as all men are, in terms of size for a partner.

This comfort zone isn't a specific weight, it's just a general size. If a woman is too thin and fits outside the comfort zone, it's difficult to develop and maintain an erection while trying to engage her in sex.

When Haunted says: "Now this is probably shallow but if she were 150 lbs I'd probably have a problem desiring her physically." ...

... Umm not it's not shallow because if you can't get it up and have sex you can't get it up. It's not something you should feel bad about! The girl is not turning you on. A physical component to a relationship is very important.

I think the "comfort zone" fluctuates throughout an FAs life, but I'm willing to bet many FAs out there have had that experience where you've tried to have sex with normal or chubby girls and you were into them, but physically you just could not develop and/or maintain an erection, and that you felt you were "forcing" yourself to become erect in the first place in order to consummate the sex act.

As an interesting side note, I think watching SSBBW porn has a negative effect on the comfort zone, in that smaller girls who might have done it for you before are now too small.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Yeah, pretty much, definitely.

But there is definitely an emotional component that can weaken/strengthen an erection for men. But it might be difficult to reach that place with a thinner gal.

Have you ever thought about the question How deep is your love? Or what the question implies in regards to connections and attraction in relationships?

They say love has to grow and deepen. But where does love initially start?
Love begins with infatuation and is shallow and visual. This is how humans are designed to attract each other. However once the initial attraction is made love has to deepen to grow. I have always maintained that men and women sexually and in relationships want the exact same things but go about getting them differently and for different genetic hardwired reasons.

Women want sex as much as men do and masturbate in the absence of a quality mate or fulfil the need with casual sex. The perception of the acts in question are merely percieved differently by society standards and how we treat those who act them out.

Men want love as much as women do but the trait is seen as a flaw or weekness in the natural selection process in favor of other more aggressive qualities. This is seen all over the place in how women are tired of seeing emotional men (pussies) and want one more aggressive, especially in the bedroom. This reinforces the aspect in men that aggressive behaviour is prized by women over the emotional, we react in nature accordingly in order for us to attract the partner who can provide support for our emotional and sexual needs. This also reinforces my point of going about getting our male human needs fulfilled differently than women who are allowed by nature and society to display these traits openly to attract males.

Men and women want the same things from intimate relationships as much as the other but once again the perception of how we go about achieving this is different.

If men were only sexually driven creatures there would be no relationships nor marriage for any other reason than to propogate the species. There would be no masturbation, nor sex with any woman outside of her optimum fertilization period. He would only marry those women he could continually make pregnant with success. There would be no intimacy related to the act.

If women were only sexual creatures then there would only be sex when an optimum male was available to do so. they would be just as sexually aggressive as males and they would not have sex outside of their optimum fertilization period, masturbate, or deal in sex practices outside of that optimum state. Casual sex would be last resort to pass genes on and be with a single mindedness of propogation at all costs. Once again no intimacy

If men and women were ONLY emotional creatures they would meet, connect, and never be attracted to another until or even after death, and vanity of physical appearance would not be relevant qualities in either gender.
intimate sexuality would only occur later in the relationship once emotional depth was achieved. It would not be a hormonal response to physical stimuli.

In men and women once the initial visual/physical attraction is made certain receptors in the brain shut down causing some flaws in personality to be overlooked so that one pays more attention to other traits of what attract two people. This is why a woman can get horny and wet looking at a well built man and men get erections and want to take the woman they just saw to bed.

The natural response of both toward the other is more physical, sexual and shallow. We are taught that this response to stimuli is the desire to want to get to know the male/female better on other levels. The response to initial attraction is more basic, animalistic, and sexual more often than not. Women are trained since birth to see it as something else, and not act on the sexual until the emotional can be satisfied as well. Men are taught to pursue it aggressively at this level. We test and temper each other in society to achieve the end result of the lifelong relationship through our dating games and mating rituals.

Once the couple is together and the shiny penny has worn a bit nature has given them a chance to get to know each other a bit and the relationship begins to heighten and deepen as they share experiences, and each other on a level more than just physical. If not, they stagnate. The flaws that weren't perceived initially become an issue and the relationship either ends or continues unhappily. Some couples never achieve emotional depth and don't realize it until something in the physical appearance of one partner or the other changes and they no longer feel an attraction toward that partner. These couples inevitably either accept their lot and continue or break up.

The couples that stay together through physical changes and life are the ones who have deep and abiding connections with their partners through the emotional connections they have nurtured over time. We as humans have an sense of instant gratification and although we desire the instant connection for a mate to see our minds as attractive as well as our bodies the initial attraction of our species is just not that way and we still seem shocked and offended when it just doesn't happen fast enough even though we realize that instant connections are rare without the initial visual connection to pave the way and create the desire necessary for intimate relationships to grow.

Men and women seek different qualities in each other. Both just as shallow as the other initially. I've been turned down for dates based on my income, some for looks, and for others it was my manner of deportment. Women are hardwired to seek men who can provide security(on various levels), genetic material for optimum offspring, safety, and income, amongst other things. A lot of time they see his ability to provide these things initially, in physical appearance, and translate that subconciously into intelligence ambition, and a level of aggression toward being able to provide these things.

This is why there are "guys, post pictures of your (insert name of masculine body part here.)" threads. Women just look for different characteristics within the physical traits and extrapolate differently the percieved abilities of a man on a basic subconcious level.

Men are visually driven but what we look for is different things in attraction and more driven toward the womans ability to pass on our genetic material. With men and women both, nature takes us to the most basic level of what traits we look for in a mate before we look deeper to the person for what will sustain the relationship past the point of infatuation.
Anyway enough rambling, on with the thread.
Rollhandler

Pretty much agreeing with what Fuzzy Necromancer and voidhead said.. Except the bit about ssbbw porn.. What actually cemented my exclusive desire for a bbw gf (who's at least a size 18 or 20 but pref. a 24 or bigger) wasn't an arbitrary idea or a fantasy or porn.. It was my three year LTR with a gorgeous bbw who was just so mindblowing in bed and so fulfilling in hugs.. Loving her meant NOT having to fantasise during sex.. Loving her meant being truly alive in the moment.. Once I had experienced what it's like to be with a proper fat girl there was no going back for me... And re. the sex vs. love thing.. Yes sexual attraction between people might end/reduce with physical changes.. But even if you split with someone cos of that there's a loving friendship that can endure.. Well that's been my and my most recent ex's experience anyway.. And if I appreciate, care for and love her even tho we are no longer a couple, nor sexually involved - well that'd be the opposite of objectification - IMO

I'm having some difficulty with understanding how not being able to "get it up" for thin women has anything to do with the OP's actual post, about objectifying fat women.

Quote:

Originally Posted by voidhead

Can we just stop beating around the bush for 2 seconds?

The bottom line is that I think most male FAs have a comfort zone, being very visual in terms of sexual attraction as all men are, in terms of size for a partner.

This comfort zone isn't a specific weight, it's just a general size. If a woman is too thin and fits outside the comfort zone, it's difficult to develop and maintain an erection while trying to engage her in sex.

When Haunted says: "Now this is probably shallow but if she were 150 lbs I'd probably have a problem desiring her physically." ...

... Umm not it's not shallow because if you can't get it up and have sex you can't get it up. It's not something you should feel bad about! The girl is not turning you on. A physical component to a relationship is very important.

I think the "comfort zone" fluctuates throughout an FAs life, but I'm willing to bet many FAs out there have had that experience where you've tried to have sex with normal or chubby girls and you were into them, but physically you just could not develop and/or maintain an erection, and that you felt you were "forcing" yourself to become erect in the first place in order to consummate the sex act.

As an interesting side note, I think watching SSBBW porn has a negative effect on the comfort zone, in that smaller girls who might have done it for you before are now too small.

I'm having some difficulty with understanding how not being able to "get it up" for thin women has anything to do with the OP's actual post, about objectifying fat women.

yes...a man making everything about his penis and less about the woman he desires is objectifying, IMO.
A guy that just wants to ask me questions about my weight, size, etc and has ZILCH interest in knowing anything else about me is objectifying...and his questions aren't even really about me....but how well he will be satisfied.
There are other factors involved that go beyond feeling physically attracted to someone....and only caring about yourself when dealing with others is not a good way to treat other people.
I believe that is one of the things that takes it to the level of objectifying another human being.

__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

"The longing of my heart is a fairy portrait of myself: I want to be pretty; I want to eliminate facts and fill up the gap with charms."

"See these eyes so green, I can stare for a thousand years, Colder than the moon
It's been so long and I've been putting out fire with gasoline"

yes...a man making everything about his penis and less about the woman he desires is objectifying, IMO.
A guy that just wants to ask me questions about my weight, size, etc and has ZILCH interest in knowing anything else about me is objectifying...and his questions aren't even really about me....but how well he will be satisfied.
There are other factors involved that go beyond feeling physically attracted to someone....and only caring about yourself when dealing with others is not a good way to treat other people.
I believe that is one of the things that takes it to the level of objectifying another human being.

Some men need to realize it's not all about them . A man better learn how to satisfy ME or my dimply, cute fat ass will just waddle on away to something better, and by satisfy, i mean satisfy my body, mind and soul. I'm not an object to admire and play with at someone's whim, i am a living, breathing person.

The bottom line is that I think most male FAs have a comfort zone, being very visual in terms of sexual attraction as all men are, in terms of size for a partner.

This comfort zone isn't a specific weight, it's just a general size. If a woman is too thin and fits outside the comfort zone, it's difficult to develop and maintain an erection while trying to engage her in sex.

When Haunted says: "Now this is probably shallow but if she were 150 lbs I'd probably have a problem desiring her physically." ...

... Umm not it's not shallow because if you can't get it up and have sex you can't get it up. It's not something you should feel bad about! The girl is not turning you on. A physical component to a relationship is very important.

I think the "comfort zone" fluctuates throughout an FAs life, but I'm willing to bet many FAs out there have had that experience where you've tried to have sex with normal or chubby girls and you were into them, but physically you just could not develop and/or maintain an erection, and that you felt you were "forcing" yourself to become erect in the first place in order to consummate the sex act.

As an interesting side note, I think watching SSBBW porn has a negative effect on the comfort zone, in that smaller girls who might have done it for you before are now too small.

Does anyone else feel this way?

Thats where imagination comes into play...Its not impossible to maintain an erection or have sex with someone that may be outside of the our normal type of woman...just requires a tad more effort.

It isn't just FA's. Or men. We all do it to eachother. There are some men out there with hot sexy six packs (hellooooo sexy!!!) or bhm... (for all the bhm lovers out there ) I think that a lot of us BBW's feel objectified on dims because that's what a lot of FA's are here for. They want to fulfill their fetish desires by catching free shots of the paysite girls or peeking around in our silly picture laden threads . Also, I think that men have the right to date SSBBW's exclusively as I have the desire to date hot, muscular men with full heads of hair exclusively. If you love the partner enough, hopefully that initial infatuation wouldn't be the deciding factor if say- your ssbbw lost 300 lbs or my dream muscle man became bald, hairy, and pot bellied... **no offense bhm's.... no hating here I promise **