Neil I have seen those shell casing lasers you put in the Bbl but was wondering how accurate they were? I never put a piece of paper over the muzzle to see if it was centered, and I never rotated one in a Bbl in a jig to see if it rolled, or stayed in the same position at a given distance. There could be a lot of error if it is not consistently centered.

I tried one at night sighting the back ot the trap house in my Seitz and it confirmed gun was a high shooter.

I've no idea, Gary, but am am learning fast with three laser pointers in my shop trying to get organized into an experiment.

If all you want to know is if a gun shoots high or not, I'll bet they work fine, but so does just looking at the rib-pitch and rings.

Likewise sideways. If a barrel is bent to the side it'll tell you I suppose, but so will reading the rings. How 'bout if the barrel is straight but the gun still shoots a bit to the side - will it pick this up? I don't know, and the only way you could tell is shoot it for POI and once you do that, why do you need a laser?

Shooting is pretty easy once you are set up and the results pretty certain after a box or so of shells up close. A laser is quick and can be used in the gun shop. But I wonder - has anyone ever passed up an otherwise OK shotgun based on a laser warning? And if they did, how did they know the laser was right?

Neil, I used a laser from Pat gottberg as I was thinking that my bottom Barrel of my Kolar was shooting much higher than my top barrel. After checking out both barrels with the laser, I found that both were shooting at 100% at 40 yds. After finding this out I've shot much better as I can no longer put the blame on the barrel. lol Odie

A group in our club bought one of these http://www.lasersales.com/product_info.php/products_id/2084 because it had the shotgun adapter. It worked really well in rifles but it was not reliable in shotguns; they couldn't find a gun that it fit in well enough to say that it was giving a reliable reading. Just closing the action of a break gun seemed to knock it out of kilter.

I've used lasers for rifles and shotguns for over 25 years. Several times I've observed chamber lasers diverge quite a bit from the actual point of impact and have not had any real problems with those that are a concentric fit in the muzzle.

I've seen lasers used in pairs on the rib and muzzle, but in the ultimate analysis, I think the best route is to use Neil's 13 yd. bench tecnique to get a good vertical and reproducible POI then follow Phil Kiner's -adjust the comb and rib for live firing at 16 yds. until they smoke. Then, check it with the laser at 35yds on reflective paper for a reference point and maybe fire another group off the bench at 13.

Lots of shooting, but I'm a scientist and an old fart and it's a good way to spend an afternoon.

The chamber lasers are only good if they fit the chamber nice a tight, have the runout adjusted out of them, and your barrel is perfectly straight. After all they are showing you where the chamber is pointed, the muzzle is what determines where the shot is going.

If you have a laser that would fit the muzzle end and be nice and concentric with the bore with not slop no runout it would work pretty good.

I have had some luck with muzzle lasers telling me pretty close how a barrel will perform. I don't rely on them as absolute. I would not trust a chamber laser in a shotgun, because most barrels have an upward bend in them. Aside from a pattering board, shooting into loose dirt with an observer tells me more than anything else. I have one gun with two bends in the barrel and both the rings in the barrel and the laser say the gun shoots to the left, but at the board, in the dirt and shooting at targets, the barrel is straight and high.

At best the laser can tell pretty darn close where the barrel is at and perhaps if the gun fits you. I noticed at 40 feet I can get a good idea on gun fit. At 40-50 yards, the laser tells a lot about point of impact.

Chamber lasers used in rifles and pistols are much better telling the story for these firearms.

I wonder what Dennis Devault uses (he referred to using one to set the POI on an over/under, and seems to be very confident in it).

You'd almost need a laser that shot out of the barrel at the same ID of the barrel, since you could feasibly have a barrel that has an EXTREME bend the last couple inches, but the laser would still show it as straight if it doesn't hit the barrel first.

Dear Lazer Interested Shotgun Shooters.
A company was present at the 1992 Spring Grand in Phoenix, AZ. They had a very nice set-up that was used by the P factory and P/USA. Also used by a few other mfg's. It was pricey...$600.00 range. It was used for checking the barrel straightness/POI before shipment from the factory and after arrival in the US. I tryed the demo unit in the booth and was impressed with it's performance from my knowledge of metrology. Their single largest equipment customer was the P-factory. BUT, when all is said and done, Neil Winston's 13 yard live firing procedure is the one to use in my humble opinion.
Respectfully submitted,
Jet Boat Bill

A co. in Fountain Hills, Az., makes a series of laser bore sighters. The one I have is the SL 100, which works for 22 cal. up to 12 ga. shotguns. Costs about $100.00. Works great for adjusting ribs, stocks, etc. for POI. Their address is: Concept Development Corporation., P.O. Box 18970, Fountain Hills, AZ., 85269. Ph. 800 472 4405, e-mail: sitelite@aol.com. G.E.G.

Here is what I do and it works just fine::: Cabelas 12 ga. chamber lazer, first I take a clear piece of packing tape and I put it around the lazer body ( not overlapping it onto it's self this will take any slop out,) you can overlap it but then cut thru both layers and remove the overlapping piece, this will leave you with just one complete layer on the lazer then take a 20 ga. empty and knock the primer out of it and install the 20 ga. hull into the muzzle of the barrel ( Brass out wards " like I had to tell you that LOL ) now the lazer should pass thru the open hole in the 20 ga. hull, you may have to rotate the lazer in the chamber to achieve this but you will at least know that the beam is comming out of the center of the muzzle...... thaaaaaa

I had a Beamer-Line that I bought at the Grand in '92 or '93 and it fit the muzzle with a couple of O rings to keep it concentric. I would not recommend it for absolute impact...but it would tell you if the gun is at least close. I almost bought an expensive English side by side and I checked the barrels with the laser. It was poorly regulated and the barrels would have to have been redone, an expensive procedure at best. I figure the laser saved me a couple of thousand dollars on that one deal.

I now use and sell a muzzle oriented 12Ga. laser that I check guns with in my shop. I am amazed how close this will measure POI. Normally within 1 inch at 35 yards! Again, I don't think it is a substitute for patterning the gun, however some older guns (and some new ones..) don't exactly shoot where you think they might. A lot of older O/U Perazzi's will shoot real high in the bottom barrel and dead on on the top, OK if that's what you want, but if you were going to use it as a sporting gun it would be a nightmare! I have seen some Beretta guns that the barrels shot in different zip codes too. That why I laser them, just to be sure.

The Laser-Line I sell is $225.00 and I'll have them on my website above tomorrow or Saturday. Thanks,

If you have a laser that fits in the muzzle of your shotgun try this. Sight in on a target or background as far as your laser will work, usually 25 yds in the dark can be done, and note where the laser dot is in relation to your bead. Now turn the laser a quarter of a turn and check again, keep repeating until you've been all the way around. Then you will see how accurate your laser is.

I use an Arrow Laser Shot device for checking gun fits and POI. It can be adjusted to keep the beam centered to the bore C/L, and works pretty well at that. I also use it along with a T. Jordan Wall Chart for practice.