Wow 2tone going in on this topic i see. Time for me 2 get my one poltical statement out there. Peronsally I feel the vaccum was created more when we invaded iraq not when we left. ISIS is a remnant of the most radical of AL-qaeda former members mixed with sunni tribes and the most radical of followers of wahhabi islam along with a large foreign radicalized contingent. To ensure defeat of ISIS we must limit the presence of wahhabi islam. However that could be difficult as Saudi Arabia has been the one propping up and funding madrassas, islamic charities with ties to isis. Saudi Arabia has been an ally but this needs to be the middle easts fight. Al Shabab in somalia was defeated by the US partnering with Kenya, and the AU as a whole. Ground troops for the us need to be off the table us foreign policy has to get smarter we need middle eastern troops on the ground to defeat ISIS. Airstrikes can only do so much and us ground troops cant stay in perpetual war forever. ISIS can only be truly defeated if the middle east steps up to the plate. The US needs to partner with Iran yes I said it. Only Iran has the influence to sway the shia government of Iraq and the military will to deal with ISIS. Turkey could join however that would be better but erdogan is a hard man to read and cannot deal with the root causes of sunni disenfranchisement in Iraq. If you partner with Iran that in my opinion will be the most effective strategy for dealing with ISIS. Obviously that would take some conncessions but just throwing this out there Iran has worked with the us in the past.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_uprising_in...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabi_movementhttp://blogs.reuters.com/mark-leonard/2014/06...

For those who might not understand ISIS its roots and what needs to be done about it.

TheTruth

Post #227

Wednesday October 8, 2014 12:02am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950

Now this is one topic that we gotta get adms to lob up a few posts on. That would bring clarity to the matter.

Jesus, the thought of some of you guys debating middle east policy is pretty goddamn hysterical.

dfw_fanDfW

Post #228

Wednesday October 8, 2014 3:43am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 999

back to regular programming after politics 101?

Rey Regicide

Post #229

Wednesday October 8, 2014 1:18pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 2,001

Where does Holmes rank with us at least? Is he ahead of Green Gyau ? Or maybe in line with what we've seen from Pulisic etc those likes?

recycledhumansDFWTX

Post #230

Wednesday October 8, 2014 3:22pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467

Original post from Rey Regicide

Where does Holmes rank with us at least? Is he ahead of Green Gyau ? Or maybe in line with what we've seen from Pulisic etc those likes?

I thought he played more of a central role, like a box-to-box who's starting position is offset slightly toward offense, but not quite a CAM...

No matter where he plays, with the quality coming up it'll be hard to break into this squad before 2018 on a permanent basis.

EKneezyAtlanta

Post #231

Wednesday October 29, 2014 4:52pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,065

Holmes has been recalled back from his loan at Bury.

stone88

Post #232

Wednesday October 29, 2014 6:31pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from 2tone

Yes the US created a vacuum in Iraq, but the rub is that the vacuum was created by the US pulling out way to soon.

ISIS is evil pure unadulterated evil. The US created the vacuum for ISIS to seize, but the US did not create ISIS.

Everyone acts like what ISIS is doing is new in that part of the world? It's not new. It's just that now it's in your face on a bigger scale.

Beheadings, genital mutilation of women, stoning's, killing of free thinking Muslims, Christians, and any other religious sect has been going on for decades and generations.

News flash: there are evil people in the world. There are evil people who seize control of large groups of people and captivate them all into one evil mind set. Religion is the easiest portal and incubator for large masses of people to be swayed into killing their fellow man.

When ISIS is defeated could it be replaced by an even more brutal organization? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean you don't fight that evil. If anyone thinks we should leave ISIS alone and allow them to slaughter thousands more people, and allow them to take over the Middle East, not only would we have to fight a much more bigger and more dangerous foe in the future, but you are asking for the American government and public(me) to turn there backs on thousands of innocent people who are in the way of the storm that is ISIS. You all could be fighting ISIS in the future if we just sit on our coaches and put a policy in place of appeasement. What do you think will happen if that organization gets multiple nuclear war heads? Those Nukes will be pointed right at us.

Duane Holmes has a right to his opinion just like anyone else.

So when could US forces pull out of Iraq exactly? 10, 20, 30 years from now. Hell, why don't we just admit right now we want to be old school Britain and just take Iraq for ourselves. It's laughable that people still push the idea that we left Iraq too soon, as if we had only stayed there a couple more years the Sunnis and Shia would be best friends again and the 1400 y/o schism that divides them would be gone.

Sure, ISIS and their barbaric methods need to be defeated, but at what cost to Americans, when the larger region of the middle east doesn't want to fight it themselves. Please tell me 2tone, you aren't one of these war hawks wanting us to send troops back into Iraq again, only to get embroiled in another decade long sectarian struggle wasting American lives and costing the American taxpayer to the tune of 7 trillion dollars (total cost of the Afghan/Iraq War when all is said and done).

stone88

Post #233

Wednesday October 29, 2014 6:39pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

..

2toneTen-Towns

Post #234

Wednesday October 29, 2014 10:55pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178

Original post from stone88

So when could US forces pull out of Iraq exactly? 10, 20, 30 years from now. Hell, why don't we just admit right now we want to be old school Britain and just take Iraq for ourselves. It's laughable that people still push the idea that we left Iraq too soon, as if we had only stayed there a couple more years the Sunnis and Shia would be best friends again and the 1400 y/o schism that divides them would be gone.

Sure, ISIS and their barbaric methods need to be defeated, but at what cost to Americans, when the larger region of the middle east doesn't want to fight it themselves. Please tell me 2tone, you aren't one of these war hawks wanting us to send troops back into Iraq again, only to get embroiled in another decade long sectarian struggle wasting American lives and costing the American taxpayer to the tune of 7 trillion dollars (total cost of the Afghan/Iraq War when all is said and done).

"All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke

No man is an island,
Entire to itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own,
Or of thine firend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therfore, send not to know,
For whom the bells toll,
It tolls for thee. -John Donne

War hawk? No. I served in the military. I know the cost of war. I saw what war does to a soldier. But don't think for one minute that somehow ISIS will stop if they are successful in their venture of setting up an Islamic Caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

You tell a 10 year old girl why their mommy and daddy was beheaded because they have a different religion while those who have the capacity to stop it just stand by and allows mass murder go unrestricted.

If you allow ISIS to grow stronger each day, then all Americans will be fighting against a much more stronger foe 10, 20, or 30 years from now.

I would rather fight now in my day, so that my future family has peace in their day.

At what cost to Americans? meaning what? The cost could be far more severe if ISIS is allowed to be.

dunlopp9987

Post #235

Wednesday October 29, 2014 11:10pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,640

I also agree that Holmes has faded from the USMNT picture.

That's what we're talking about here, right?

COYB!!

stone88

Post #236

Thursday October 30, 2014 2:32am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,483

Original post from 2tone

"All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."- Edmund Burke

No man is an island,
Entire to itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manner of thine own,
Or of thine firend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therfore, send not to know,
For whom the bells toll,
It tolls for thee. -John Donne

War hawk? No. I served in the military. I know the cost of war. I saw what war does to a soldier. But don't think for one minute that somehow ISIS will stop if they are successful in their venture of setting up an Islamic Caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

You tell a 10 year old girl why their mommy and daddy was beheaded because they have a different religion while those who have the capacity to stop it just stand by and allows mass murder go unrestricted.

If you allow ISIS to grow stronger each day, then all Americans will be fighting against a much more stronger foe 10, 20, or 30 years from now.

I would rather fight now in my day, so that my future family has peace in their day.

At what cost to Americans? meaning what? The cost could be far more severe if ISIS is allowed to be.

So I'm guessing that is a yes on putting ground troops back into Iraq to fight another global apocalyptic evil for another who knows how long, for another who knows how may trillions of dollars. Look, all that flowery language is nice, but I live in the real world. The world where America can no longer be acting like the global cowboy police, entering into every little conflict for some supposed high minded principle that in reality is nothing more than a money grab from corporations and military contractors at the expense of American middle-class lives and wealth.

If the Turks, Saudis, Iranians, Jordanians, Lebanese, you know, those who share borders with these lunatics and have the most skin in the game, don't want to fight ISIS on the ground, why should we? Seriously, why should we throw more troops and more money into a region that 1) will only see us as invading infidels again, 2) wants to again draw us into another gorilla style insurgency war that proved to be extremely difficult for us to fight the first time around, and 3) will be no better off the second time if and when we decide to leave.

I feel for the average Syrian and Iraqi, and that 10 year old girl who suffers violence I really do. However, I also feel for the thousands of people in the Congo being slaughtered by Christian fundies that we chose to ignore, or the millions of North Koreans living under a brutal dictatorship that we don't decided to destroy, or the 7 year long genocide of half a million Sudanese in the Dafur Conflict, which the US and the west sat idle. There is evil all over this world and we chose to work with it, ignore it, or simply do nothing about it ALL THE DAMN TIME! So to act like we have this overwhelming moral obligation to fight these peoples fight is just dumb!

And finally, how the hell do you know ISIS will continue to get stronger and stronger until, of course, we will have to oneday fight them 10, 20, 30 years from now? You are arguing from a complete hypothetical. I don't agree to war because of a hypothetical threat. Preventative wars are stupid and illegal under international law! Come back to me when you have evidence that ISIS has invaded Kansas, or that they actually have the ability to put up the black Jihadi flag over the White house. Or even come back to me when any Middle-eastern state has troops willing to fight with and along side us to defeat these bastards, then I'll concede to you.

dunlopp9987

Post #237

Thursday October 30, 2014 3:17am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 2,640

According to Duane Holmes' Instagram account, he recently received a parking ticket.

How bout that, AM I RIGHT??

COYB!!

hamsamwich

Post #238

Thursday October 30, 2014 3:38am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,982

Original post from dunlopp9987

I also agree that Holmes has faded from the USMNT picture.

That's what we're talking about here, right?

that, or the fact I'd rather watch him play soccer or have 2tone give his opinion on it, rather than focus on their off field viewpoints. It's great everyone has opinions but they aren't relevant to soccer.

2toneTen-Towns

Post #239

Thursday October 30, 2014 4:27am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178

Original post from stone88

So I'm guessing that is a yes on putting ground troops back into Iraq to fight another global apocalyptic evil for another who knows how long, for another who knows how may trillions of dollars. Look, all that flowery language is nice, but I live in the real world. The world where America can no longer be acting like the global cowboy police, entering into every little conflict for some supposed high minded principle that in reality is nothing more than a money grab from corporations and military contractors at the expense of American middle-class lives and wealth.

If the Turks, Saudis, Iranians, Jordanians, Lebanese, you know, those who share borders with these lunatics and have the most skin in the game, don't want to fight ISIS on the ground, why should we? Seriously, why should we throw more troops and more money into a region that 1) will only see us as invading infidels again, 2) wants to again draw us into another gorilla style insurgency war that proved to be extremely difficult for us to fight the first time around, and 3) will be no better off the second time if and when we decide to leave.

I feel for the average Syrian and Iraqi, and that 10 year old girl who suffers violence I really do. However, I also feel for the thousands of people in the Congo being slaughtered by Christian fundies that we chose to ignore, or the millions of North Koreans living under a brutal dictatorship that we don't decided to destroy, or the 7 year long genocide of half a million Sudanese in the Dafur Conflict, which the US and the west sat idle. There is evil all over this world and we chose to work with it, ignore it, or simply do nothing about it ALL THE DAMN TIME! So to act like we have this overwhelming moral obligation to fight these peoples fight is just dumb!

And finally, how the hell do you know ISIS will continue to get stronger and stronger until, of course, we will have to oneday fight them 10, 20, 30 years from now? You are arguing from a complete hypothetical. I don't agree to war because of a hypothetical threat. Preventative wars are stupid and illegal under international law! Come back to me when you have evidence that ISIS has invaded Kansas, or that they actually have the ability to put up the black Jihadi flag over the White house. Or even come back to me when any Middle-eastern state has troops willing to fight with and along side us to defeat these bastards, then I'll concede to you.

Look it's pointless to get into this debate. You have your opinion I have mine.

Come back to you when ISIS has invaded? All you have to do is open your eyes. They are already here.