It's funny how after IM3 came out, suddenly these Mandarin "fans" start coming out of nowhere.

No kidding.

I'm pretty sure most of them are not Mandarin fans, they are "fans" of the Nolan-esque Mandarin they saw in the trailers. . . and by that I mean they had visions of "finally, a movie we can take seriously!"

Which is to say, they weren't, and aren't, fans at all. They became fans only when it looked like they might get a darker and edgier movie, to finally wash away all that icky poo optimism and heroism that 'infects' the franchise.

Aldrich Killian IS the Mandarin, something that many fans tend to ignore or outright deny. Accounting for the dissatisfaction from the so-called fans, they tend to use the Joker as an example, such as "what if Joker turned out to be a mascot who’s controlled by a scheming businessman and you say that that guy is the Joker?" Now, that comparison doesn’t actually work because the Joker has had one general consistent and very iconic look to his character: a guy in some purple formal wear, with white skin and green hair that looks like a clown. I can't say the same about the Mandarin. I have yet to see the Mandarin make any sort of impact in the Marvel comics universe. Cartoons, toy makes and writers have always been baffled about how to present him and usually create incarnations of their own. He's portrayed as everything from a sorcerer, to an ancient ghost, to a green-skinned alien, to a business man, to a teenage descendant of Gengis Khan in magic armour. Iron Man 3 isn't doing anything new by doing their own version.

This line of argument is even worse, for it gets it all backwards on top of everything else wrong with it. Nobody is saying the 'mascot', that is, Kingsley, is the Mandarin. A somewhat more analogous metaphor would be 'What if the Joker were a behind-the-scenes manipulator who used clown-faced agents who claim to be him as pawns and distractions?' Which. . . actually sounds like a viable take on the Joker, to me, as long as his motive is still "create theatrical crime and chaos."

This line of argument is even worse, for it gets it all backwards on top of everything else wrong with it. Nobody is saying the 'mascot', that is, Kingsley, is the Mandarin. A somewhat more analogous metaphor would be 'What if the Joker were a behind-the-scenes manipulator who used clown-faced agents who claim to be him as pawns and distractions?' Which. . . actually sounds like a viable take on the Joker, to me, as long as his motive is still "create theatrical crime and chaos."

I disagree. That is just as bad.

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Originally Posted by Lord

They did get that, he was just not Asian, was blonde and didn't have the rings

Here's my gripe with that - I don't think it should just be okay to up and change the race of these comic book characters, unless it is being adapted by a certain of the character that is a different race.

They made Heimdall black and completely ignored that he's Sif's brother. They made Electro black. If race is not supposed to be important, why do they always make sure lucius fox or war machine is black?

Was it because their first comic incarnations were not white? Well then times diversity was written to be, it should be there to be realized on film as well. I know Yinsen was changed to Middle Eastern in IM1, and it's unusual for an Arab to have a name such as Ho Yinsen, but it worked very well in the film. Mandarin, on the other hand, is identified much more closely with Chinese culture than Yinsen because his parentage is specified.

Not really, a character being Arab or chinese isn't racist, the problem is the context in which the character is presented, Ra's Al Ghul doesn't sound racist at all, but a villain called: The MANDARIN! does.

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Originally Posted by childeroland

Plenty of male-led action films fail, yet the actors' gender is not blamed. Why should it be different for women? Especially since far more male-led action films are made than female-led action films?

Not really, a character being Arab or chinese isn't racist, the problem is the context in which the character is presented, Ra's Al Ghul doesn't sound racist at all, but a villain called: The MANDARIN! does.

I still do not agree. From a racial perspective, naming a Chinese villain mandarin is not offensive. It would only be so if it were named after a stereotype or something. Like if Ra's al Ghul (which translates to demon's head) had an alias of like, 'Building Bomber' or something, and if mandarin had an alias like 'Dog Eater'.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since I was never a hardcore iron man fan, i.e the comics, but I think fanboys were looking for something more on the lines of this

They did get that sans the rings.

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Originally Posted by metaphysician

This line of argument is even worse, for it gets it all backwards on top of everything else wrong with it. Nobody is saying the 'mascot', that is, Kingsley, is the Mandarin. A somewhat more analogous metaphor would be 'What if the Joker were a behind-the-scenes manipulator who used clown-faced agents who claim to be him as pawns and distractions?' Which. . . actually sounds like a viable take on the Joker, to me, as long as his motive is still "create theatrical crime and chaos."

Point taken. The modern interpretations of the Mandarin have him portrayed as a scientist/business man who manipulates people from behind the shadows which is exactly what Killian did in IM3. He was far more closer to the comic Mandarin something these so called 'fans' don't even acknowledge.

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Originally Posted by Spider-Aziz

Marvel studios made big changes too

They have but the MCU have been far more true to source material than Fox with the X-men. I was responding to that guy, CyclopsWasRight who has huge hatred for the MCU for unknown reasons. Did you not read what he said? I like the X-Men films with X-2 being my 2nd favorite CBM of all time but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend that Singer didn't butcher more than half the characters to the point where the films have become the X-Men in name only. That being said, DOFP is my most anticipated CBM next year.

I'm pretty sure most of them are not Mandarin fans, they are "fans" of the Nolan-esque Mandarin they saw in the trailers. . . and by that I mean they had visions of "finally, a movie we can take seriously!"

Which is to say, they weren't, and aren't, fans at all.They became fans only when it looked like they might get a darker and edgier movie, to finally wash away all that icky poo optimism and heroism that 'infects' the franchise.

Iron Man 2 - 8.5/10 - Very good but you just can't beat the first. Some liberties taken starting to bother me.

Iron Man 3 - 5/10 - Unforgivable if it stays as is w/o some retcon or something.

Pretty much agree but for me the twist was the least of the problems with the film although it was pretty aweful. Iron man was wonderful but I wouldn't say its the absolute best for me but it was the first of the best.

Iron Man- still a solid movie, dare I say still my favorite of the MCU?

Iron Man 3- Great movie, tons of fun, few flaws here and there, but overall a very solid start to Phase 2.

Iron Man 2- If not for the cast being so professional at what they do, I probably wouldn't care for this movie. Not bad, but in the grand scheme of things, this is the worst directed MCU movie, thanks to Marvel's meddling.

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Originally Posted by Tacit Ronin

The way SONY dominated Marc Webb was way more hardcore than anything in 50 Shades anyways.

Pretty much agree but for me the twist was the least of the problems with the film although it was pretty aweful. Iron man was wonderful but I wouldn't say its the absolute best for me but it was the first of the best.

Just to clarify, I wrote that about IM3 during the first week or so when it was out and the twist had me hot and pissed off. I got over it soon after and now I'd give IM3 a 7.5/10. Still the least of the series for me but on the whole I think it's still a good movie. Though I still hold out hope for a retcon since they left plenty of wiggle room for it. My opinions on the first two have not changed though.

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I love all three films, though, but the first is the best, definitely. Imo, I've always loved part two & thought it was a great sequel, although part three ultimately won over it for me because it featured a stronger & more interesting villain.