Will Apple Adopt Windows? -- NO! (My Response to Dvorak)

by Matthew Russell

Or perhaps I should say, "Hell No!"

I normally don't comment on articles that are already running rampant on Slashdot, but I can't help myself here. Windows is my nemesis, and there's an article running on PC Magazine that suggests that Apple may actually switch its OS to Windows.

Is it April Fool's day today? No. Is Dvorak insane? Maybe. Will Apple switch to Windows? Not a chance. Let's take a look at a few blurbs and attempt to at least provide a cursory disarmament.

53 Comments

rom
2006-02-16 13:24:31

I agree! This is a st***d argument made by Dvorak. I do not know what he has taken nor what the psych prof took! Why on Earth would Apple spend the last 4 incarnations of Mac OS X to run on Intel if they are really after running Windows on the Intel Macs? Apple could have presented Windows on the first Intel PowerMac last year and claimed that they have seen the 'light'. But no, Mac OS X is too powerful for Windows to match.

And like you, I'd ditch Apple in a second if this comes true. I'd revert back to Linux as my main OS, on the server and on the desktop.

Small Paul
2006-02-16 13:35:23

The only reason I buy Macs is OS X. I'd never buy a Mac just to run Windows, no point.

Why the heck would Apple pour so much resource into OS X, iLife, iWork, Safari, et. al. simply to throw it all out and switch to Windows?

Small Paul
2006-02-16 13:39:16

Plus, Apple already took an operating system and customised it. That's what OS X is - customised Free BSD.

Apple have said they won't stop people running Windows on Intel Macs. If they find 90% of people buy Macs and run Windows on them (like iPods, most connect to Windows computers), then I'd understand it. But I really don't think there are that many people looking to run Windows on Mac hardware.

Christopher Roach
2006-02-16 13:41:46

Matthew, I have to agree with you here. I can hardly fathom that anyone could possibly believe this scenario has a chance of happening. Everyone knows that software drives hardware. I mean, I love the way my powerbook looks and all, but seriously, drop OS X and I'm buying a cheap Dell and running Linux. The only place I use Window's is at work, and only because I am required to. Oh, and Mr. Dvorak's argument that Apple could design the interface and leave the grunt work to Microsoft is great idea, but instead of using Microsoft Window's for the grunt work, why doesn't Apple use a much more well established, secure, and functional kernel--you know like Unix. Oh, yeah, they already do--its called OS X.

Bottom line here is that Apple's software is what drives its hardware sales. I used Window's long ago, back before I realized what a computer was capable of. I switched to Linux shortly after realizing just how bad Windows was, and OS X a few years later. If Apple drops OS X, I'll move back to Linux, I'm not sticking around and paying higher prices to use an inferior OS that sucks all of the fun and enjoyment out of computing and replaces it with virus problems and spyware.

moose
2006-02-16 14:20:10

Well, I think Dvorak is waaaaay smarter than you think... All he wanted was to get loads of traffic, trackbacks, quotes etc. and did he get it? Oh boy yes he did...
Just ignore the idiots...

Roshambo
2006-02-16 14:39:09

Moose is right about Dvorak. I honestly wouldn't even dignify his statement with a response.

Brad B.
2006-02-16 14:40:30

Nobody seems to get it: this is what Dvorak is PAID TO DO; stir up non-exstant trouble. That's his whole purpose in life. I read the article and as soon I as I saw it was a Dvorak article, my first thought is, "This should be fun." Seems he hit a nerve with this article.

BTW, I am a definite Mac user. I've owned Macs since 1984.

ptwobrussell
2006-02-16 15:47:42

@everyone: Yes, Dvorak definitely hit a nerve on this one. OS X is in my mind one of the most amazing engineering marvels of this time (really), and I definitely found it reprehensible that he would even suggest such a thing. But yes, a few of you definitely picked up on something else: he's definitely smart (for getting loads of trackbacks, etc. and controversy) -- but at the cost of looking like a fool. I'm not sure I'd ever be willing to make that sacrifice, especially with something so absolutely ludicrous. Just seems like one of those lines that's not worth crossing. Besides, eventually, he'll just lose all credibility and phase himself out. You can only be so ridiculous for so long. Eventually, folks really won't bother acknowledging his existence.

Could an idea be more absurd. Unfortunately there was another blog post today from another moron pundit that might be more absurd. Paul Murphy saying Steve Jobs should say Oops and switch back to PPC with a vaporish dual core G4.

Read and weep: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Murphy/?p=531

ptwobrussell
2006-02-16 16:55:17

@anonymoose: Nice!

Jerry
2006-02-16 17:13:57

The main reason I have a Mac is because of OS X. Its based on UNIX and is very stable and secure. I don't think Apple is that stupid because OS X is one of the best products they have ever produced.

Charlie
2006-02-16 18:42:44

Hear hear! This guy (Dvorak) is a total clown... I just keep reminding myself of that to keep my blood pressure down! I'm done with Windoze no matter what, preferably sticking with OS X for the forseeable future, but onto Linux if this absurdity that Dvorak is driveling ever comes true... Too bad he's making crazy money off these "predictions"...

Magnus
2006-02-16 19:36:37

The OS (and the software running on it) sets Mac apart from Windows at least as much as the hardware, if not more. If Apple ditched MacOSX and just became another Windows box maker, I would not be a Mac user anymore. And I would not go to Windows, I would go to Linux.

I think Steven knows he has a good thing going in MacOSX and now with Intel it seems to run even better than on PPC, so why give up on the OS? I think Dvorak is just trying to be his grumpy old self, trying to get people all worked up. That's what he seems to be good at, not predicting anything in tech.

Zac
2006-02-16 20:09:27

Dvork is a douchebag, he always has been. This idea is ludicrous at best.

Zeke
2006-02-16 21:32:19

I remember when Steve 1st announced the apple to intel switch he remarked that "we have already made a switch from os 9 to os X and that will set us up for the next twenty years. . ." so maybe in twenty years if Steve is dead, and even then I doubt it.

Al DIablo
2006-02-16 21:43:22

John Dvorak is from the same generation as Peter Norton. Norton created some successful software products and retired. While Dvorak on the other hand, who by all rights should also be retired by now, has to keep writing controversal articles to keep the money flowing to pay off all the debts from the failed technologies he has invested in. Like most bloated obsolete software, as long as there are users, the product will continue to survive. John bloated and obsolete has managed to do the same. At least give him credit for pulling off that feat. P.S. Met the man once. He rambled on about his wine expertise and ended up ordering the most expensive worst tasting wine anyone at the table ever had.

Al Diablo
2006-02-16 21:50:14

And here's the best part....

I went to the PC Mag link to post a comment and received an error message from Microsoft SQL server saying there was a configuration error, so I couldn't post.

Yeah, Apple will drop OS development in favor of Microsoft's superior products. Hehe... Sums up Dvorak and Microsoft all in one moment.

ptwobrussell
2006-02-16 21:53:21

@Al DIablo: That's awesome intel. Thanks for sharing it. And speaking of Norton -- man, I used to love his books. He really dug into architecture that a jr high schooler (at the time) just couldn't get anywhere else. I remember buying the Norton tools (or whatever they were called) and manually undeleting a file one time from a floppy disk by manually inspecting the sectors with some sort of visualization program that came with the pack. It was really cool stuff. Anyone seen a good tool like that lately -- the kind that make sit easy to visualize disk sectors, etc.

And about your other comment that just arrive while I was typing this -- HA! That is the ultimate irony. Don't you love that?

Jens
2006-02-16 22:30:09

Move along, nothing to see...

Dvorak has been predicting the imminent demise of Apple (and/or its platform) since the early '80s. He's paid to act like an idiot and stir up controversy: it sells papers. MacUser magazine even had him as a columnist for a while.

Leif
2006-02-17 01:21:25

I dont know what planet this Dvorak figure is from, but it sure aint this galaxy.

hadalaff
2006-02-17 02:49:37

mmm, the bait was on the hook and you bit ;)

ptwobrussell
2006-02-17 04:25:08

@hadalaff: Some things just can't go unanswered.

Ketema Harris
2006-02-17 05:23:15

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Its not even worth responding to. Apple is the best and they will continue to do things the way they always have, and eventually the stupid windows users will move over, and the greedy business people will realize that is costs them LESS when their users are more productive and their computers don't crash.

FARfetched
2006-02-17 06:45:58

I guess Dvorak is trying to get people to forget his near-constant "Apple is dying" screeds, in the face of all fact and evidence to the contrary.

What a moonbat. Y'know, he invested heavily in Be & lost big when Apple bought NeXT, and his columns have reflected a personal vendetta against Apple ever since. I guess Apple's roaring success of late has driven him over the edge.

w2ed
2006-02-17 07:01:29

And the tides of war stir once again, bringing idiocy supreme for a new generation.

First, remember that for every eighth of truth Dvorak might utter, there's seven-eighths more of "stupid" to follow. Although, at one time, I did respect him, most of the stuff he's done for the past few years has been nothing but Fanboy work. Therefore, you have to sift through the mound of dirt to get to the few gems he has.

I wouldn't put money on a mac running Windows unless #1.) it cam with OS X, and #2.) I could afford it. No, I wouldn't buy it if it was Windows only, because it would simply be an expensive Windows Box, and I could do better for cheaper. If I were rich, I'd reconsider, since I'd be able to afford and have need to, but not right now.

That said, if OS X Development were abandoned, dropped all today, I wouldn't be phased. I've always viewed computers as my tool of choice, and just because one OS goes down doesn't mean I couldn't learn or work on another. So long as I can accomplish what I need, I could care less.

This discussion, IMHO, is another glorified "Who's OS is Better?" debates. debates are full of stupid and ridiculous opinions. Opinions are like Butts. Get where I am going with this?

Chas Blackman
2006-02-17 07:23:13

Yeah, when I read Dvorak's article my stomach dropped. And then I thought about how Apple would never do that. But -- if they did I would switch to Linux. I would make it work.

Certain apps might not be there, but I would MAKE IT WORK instead of running Windows on an Apple. That and there's always eBay (to buy old, real macs, heaven forbid).

If I wanted a custom Windows PC I would build it myself, not ask Apple to do it. It's like asking Aston-Martin to build you a nice Ford 500.

Robert Jung
2006-02-17 09:00:59

John Dvorak's insights into Apple are as accurate as George W. Bush's skills in fighting terrorism.

McUser
2006-02-17 09:05:53

If Apple were to drop OS X in favor of Windows, then they would be nothing more than another Alienware.

They make great hardware too, but since they are saddled with Windows, to most users, they are just someone who sells pcs that are way more expensive than Dells. Apple would be totally out of the computer business in less than 2 years.

ptwobrussell
2006-02-17 09:06:35

Insight from a reader who e-mailed me directly -- pretty insightful. Sounds a lot more plausible than Dvorak.

I think Dvorak has it backwards. Perhaps it's intentional sleight-of- hand, or just delusion on his part.

Microsoft will adopt Mac OS X.

Think about it. What can Microsoft offer with Vista that Mac OS X doesn't provide already? Can Microsoft continue to allow Apple to trump it in the OS department, and Open Source in the software department?

[Of course, I have tunnel vision -- I'm only familiar with Mac OS X and the user version of Windows -- so I don't know what technologies Microsoft has out there for higher end, server-based, etc. processes that may actually be useful.]

If anyone needed to start with a clean slate, it's Microsoft. With Mac OS X, they can transition to a newer OS, which now runs on PCs, so if they get VirtualPC working then you can fall back on Windows if necessary.

shoqman
2006-02-17 09:20:28

Are you freaking kidding me? That is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. That doesn't make sense for ANYONE involved. The whole freaking point of the Mac is that it isn't windows and never will be. He clearly doesn't understand that.

Dvorak is either:
A) Just trying to piss us off because he's a little girl and doesn't have anything better to do.
or
B) A COMPLETE idiot. Like, no hope, stare-directly-at-the-sun, certified idiot.

Vermit
2006-02-17 09:23:04

I know this article was written because there is an irresistable urge to defend the Honor and dignity of the Mac....but I think You should never have even responded to Dvorak's Faulty Logic. He is always rigging up some messed up plan for Apple....but the distortion is in his mind alone...And we should just let his voice disappear into the distance like his mind obviously has.

James
2006-02-17 11:11:37

Dvorak has made a career out of bashing Apple ever since he left MacWorld or MacUser magazine a million years ago. It seems to me that ever since Apple lost the desktop wars (round 1) because it wouldn't license the operating system early enough to affect marketshare (which he strongly advocated) Dvorak has had a personal vendetta against the company and everything it has done. The strength of his arguments has constantly decreased as his predictions have become increasingly rediculous. He simply is trolling for Mac users to predictably respond to him, thereby increasing his readership. Please do everyone a favor and just ignore the idiot.

Pashtun Wally
2006-02-17 11:26:19

just cannot BELIEVE anyone still thinks Dvorak has a sensible contribution to make. Perhaps he knows "enough" to maintain credibility w/ the Windows crowd, but who cares? He's as ignorant as he is opinionated where non-Windows matters are concerned (a position dominated on the Mac side by 'BadAndy' over @ ArsTechnica (and on computers-in-general by 'jade' at the same address)).

Since it's Friday, I urge his co-workers @ PC-mag to fill his back-seat w/ MD 20/20, and then while he's gone delete his accounts & change the lock on his office: he'll never know what hit him....

Lee Givens Jr.
2006-02-17 11:53:00

Dvorak's previous job was weapons of mass destruction chief for Bush. He's also Timothy Leary's lab buddy in college (not sure if John finished college, he's not that bright).

Guys, don't get upset. Dvorak exists for one reason and one reason only - to drive people to the PC Mag website. And Dvorak is crazy like a fox - he knows the best way to get clicks coming his way is to get Mac users in an uproar. Bottom line - Dvorak is a click whore.

Zato
2006-02-17 14:48:50

Another possibility:
Dvorak is secretly a Mac friend. He could be writing much worse anti-mac FUD than this. Like Paul Murphy, linked to above, and many other's in the MS controlled PC press. He gets all the attention for his out-there theories, and the really nasty black PR goes un-noticed.

Jochen Wolters
2006-02-17 15:53:31

Whenever I see a link to an article by John C. Dvorak, I tell myself "Don't read it. IT'S JUST NOT WORTH IT." I just can't help feeling that Dvorak is in fact tech journalisms head troll who simply enjoys provoking us Mac heads with utterly rediculous ideas that even he himself can't possibly consider reasonable.

In this specific one (ahem, I can't always stop myself from reading them, after all ;) ), he points out that it is the UI that makes a Mac a Mac *duh*, so there is no point in replacing that with the clunky Windows Vista UI. Also, why should we trade in a solid, technically mature OS underlying all that UI beauty: just because the odd hardware driver is missing? Because Windows is the market leader? Why not try to sell a Porsche customer a VW Rabbit, just because more people drive VWs than Porsche?

Ah well, enough time wasted already. Any more time I will spend on something by a guy called Dvorak will be by listening to Dvorak's classical compositions. Antonin Dvorak, that is!

Pete
2006-02-17 17:21:09

Dvorak needs to stop smoking that stuff microsoft are sending him ... Seriously, his arguments make no sense.

Ben
2006-02-17 20:14:32

Shomeone's been hic, hitten the bottle again. Shorry oshifer.

2006-02-18 04:22:43

my take on this is osx will become mainstream but that will effectivly threaten windows not the other way around. windows era soon to be over.

will
2006-02-18 05:33:21

mac users switching to linux will only hurt linux in the long run.

ptwobrussell
2006-02-18 05:41:20

@will: Can you qualify how it will hurt linux? Because we'll actually expect apps with more elaborate UIs than what GTK and apps with the likes of the GIMP can bring? And that'll slow down progress? Or did you have something else in mind?

On the contrary, I think that Mac users have probably helped Linux tremendously. Consider Novell's new desktop (see my last post on it) that's obviously highly inspired from OS X. It's only going to help Linux become more mainstream. Like big time.

Steven
2006-02-18 17:50:41

SGI tried this and failed. Miserably. They had IRIX running on $10,000 workstations, and decided to become a Windows shop. They built some kick butt hardware and wrote a bunch of Windows drivers to make it as good as it could be... and nobody cared.

Just as you point out, the same thing would happen to Apple. They'd try selling their $3,000 PCs running the same crappy ol' Windows OS and Windows based software that Dell sells for $1500. Nobody would care, and Apple would be in the same place SGI is right now. The crapper.

the friendly grizzly
2006-02-19 07:07:08

Dvorak has dispensed what comes from the north end of a south-bound male bovine for more years than I can remember. I still chuckle over his rant about the NEC V20 processor. He ranted on about how geeks were switching to it under the impression it was faster, but that he 'knew' that was all nonsense.

Strange how when I moved MY 8088-based machine to a V20, the compile times on Turbo Pascal went down about 30%. I guess that, too, was nonsense...

Cliff Pruitt
2006-02-19 13:11:17

I'd be switching to Linux in a hearbeat.

A large benifit of the OS X operating system is BSD/Unix, not just the GUI. With OS X, every user gets a heck of a lot of open source software, including a fully functional Apache web server & even PHP with a little configuration. What are they going to do, make all their users move over to using PWS? Heaven help us if we have to all deal with that Windows IIS Server nonsense. A lot of OS X users love the fact that it is a Unix core. You cant keep that by slapping a fancy GUI on Windows. For that matter, Cocoa itself wouldn't run on the windows core without ressurecting YellowBox or something.

Probably the biggest argument against a switch to Windows is Apple's committment to using Open Standards solutions, everything from TCP/IP replacing Apple Talk, PDF/EPS being the foundation of the graphics in OS X, Address Book & iCal using standard (iCalendar & vCard) file formats, iWork using XML, to Bonjour being made an open standard and on & on & on... Apple is committed to standards & Windows is about as Anti-Standards as a company can get.

Cliff
2006-02-19 13:12:02

I'd be switching to Linux in a hearbeat.

A large benifit of the OS X operating system is BSD/Unix, not just the GUI. With OS X, every user gets a heck of a lot of open source software, including a fully functional Apache web server & even PHP with a little configuration. What are they going to do, make all their users move over to using PWS? Heaven help us if we have to all deal with that Windows IIS Server nonsense. A lot of OS X users love the fact that it is a Unix core. You cant keep that by slapping a fancy GUI on Windows. For that matter, Cocoa itself wouldn't run on the windows core without ressurecting YellowBox or something.

Probably the biggest argument against a switch to Windows is Apple's committment to using Open Standards solutions, everything from TCP/IP replacing Apple Talk, PDF/EPS being the foundation of the graphics in OS X, Address Book & iCal using standard (iCalendar & vCard) file formats, iWork using XML, to Bonjour being made an open standard and on & on & on... Apple is committed to standards & Windows is about as Anti-Standards as a company can get.

Cliff
2006-02-19 13:13:38

Sorry guys,
In an attempt to stop Auto-Fill from inclufing my last name I accidently sent the post twice. Please forgive the double post.

Jochen Wolters
2006-02-20 02:36:24

Here's a fabulous view on the whole affair by the Joy of Tech folks:

http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/789.html

Enjoy!

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