Thats the problem there is no logic comparing a lack of belief in the improbable to the belief in the improbable, that is where your logic breaks down. You are comparing 'i think i will win the lottery' to 'I think i will lose the lottery' and making them equally reasonable.

No. There is nothing breaking down. You simply believe it is improbable. And no matter what arguments you have. It can all be summed up in some form of "perception bias".

Thats the problem there is no logic comparing a lack of belief in the improbable to the belief in the improbable, that is where your logic breaks down. You are comparing 'i think i will win the lottery' to 'I think i will lose the lottery' and making them equally reasonable.

No. There is nothing breaking down. You simply believe it is improbable. And no matter what arguments you have. It can all be summed up in some form of "perception bias".

You are welcome to all the faith you like but you arent free to call it logic unchallenged.

You can't know if the cat is alive or dead, until you go and observe. Related to God this means you can't know if God exists or not, until you are in a position to observe. Let it be afterlife, OOBE, NDE, PLE, LSD, Mushrooms, loss of beloved relatives, friends or whatever experience in this world or an other makes people believe or disbelief in God. And even then it is just a personal experience. You can't prove / disprove it to others.

You can't know if the cat is alive or dead, until you go and observe. Related to God this means you can't know if God exists or not, until you are in a position to observe. Let it be afterlife, OOBE, NDE, PLE, LSD, Mushrooms, loss of beloved relatives, friends or whatever experience in this world or an other makes people believe or disbelief in God. And even then it is just a personal experience. You can't prove / disprove it to others.

Yes me believing a known universe is more likely to exist without an unknown and inexplicable god is just a pure 50/50 lol

Yeah....

Look I didnt start this thread, but I was called to challenge by it and if you dont like it then dont post in it, but saying god is 50/50 with 0 evidence in support is utter nonsense and akin to believing winning the lottery or losing it is 50/50.

Yes and not believing in santa clause is also just another faith, am I right? No easter bunny, just another faith. Tooth fairy, just more faith.

To have faith means that you trust something to be true. As in this case that no God exists. And as I said: Since you can't verify or falsify the existence of God, all you can do is believe that no God exists.

Faith has several definitions based on context, but the primary relevant definition, if you look it up, is that of belief without proof or evidence. The more general definition is loyalty or trust.

Dictionary.com:1.confidence or trust in a person or thing:faith in another's ability.2. belief that is not based on proof:He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

You're making a philosophy 101 type error which is a version of the Argument from Ignorance.

While we cannot verify or falsify the existence of god(s) in an absolute certain sense, we can <i>assign a reasonable probability</i> based on lack of evidence, just as we do with rejecting faith/belief in e.g., leprechauns, unicorns, and the Norse god Thor, the latter of which people in Scandinavia had faith in for 2000+ years before being Christianize by the dictate of King Harald Bluetooth .

Extraordinary claims that there are supernatural, all-powerful, all-knowing being(s) requires extraordinary evidence. Faith by definition 2 lacks evidence and thus can be intellectually dismissed. If one wants to have a kind of metaphorical ontological (being) faith in what are at core mythologies, that's another matter, but not an epistemic (grounded in knowledge based) one.

That after thousands of years of human progress in understanding the universe many still argue and sometimes kill each other over this most basic disagreement about the natures of these proclaimed supernatural beings should give any intelligent person pause to wonder why this is so.

Look I didnt start this thread, but I was called to challenge by it and if you dont like it then dont post in it, [...]

You act like this is a discussion about who's right or who's wrong. But there is no right or wrong in this. And I don't feel challenged or "dislike" something. I don't mind at all if you think that believing in God or not is a game of probabilities and compare it to lottery. All I say is that Atheism is a different form of belief.

And yes: It is a 50:50 chance. Either God exists or not. And it is up to you what you want to believe. You create your own reality.

[...]2. belief that is not based on proof:He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.[...]

If you dig deep enough, you will find out that our modern world view and knowledge of the Universe is pretty much based on that.

Sorry, but this is farcical. What we know about the universe and how it works is extraordinary. Just because there's always something left that's not understood doesn't undermine what we do know. Just a few hundred years ago, even in the West, almost nothing was understood and almost every event was god's judgement or will fatalistically acting on a mysterious universe.

If you always want to find god in the gaps of knowledge to create "faith" I can guess you can do that, but god is getting restricted into ever tighter, more obscure spaces. Every time you fly on an airplane or have a complex medical procedure that cures a disease or communicate instantly with someone on the other side of planet shows just how many extraordinary claims to knowledge and validated hypotheses in fact exist.

A supernatural being or entity who exists outside of time and space yet can transcendently work outside or through arbitrary violations of natural laws to influence or determine anything they wish in the material world.

We can prove the tooth fairy doesnt exist tho. You cant do that with a God.Atheists follow the religion of science, and force their beliefs on others.

This is not kinda correct Big Abbo.The difference is - all what science is, is proven over a period of time. Those "results" can be repeated next week, in 5 years, in 500 years or in 10.000 by a complete new civilisation the result is and will be always the same. Like Mathematics, Chemestry, Physics etc etc.

Religion can be erazed right, by war/ pandemy or earthquake or meteor impact.. the result when a new generation have to restart a new generation will be different. Mainly in lack of ground information.

Thats why we have different monotheism religions (jews,christians,muslims just counting here the main religion in the western world). The difference came via time, and distance and informations who fall behind during time and the will of power and dictating people. Also the transfering the ground informations into other languages and syntax.

The meaning of a sentence can be very different if you just translate the words singlewise. Just a tiny winky winky.. the bible has prooven (science) over 280.000 changes since it was official announced by a conclave in the year ~400 A.D.

In 2015 there were made arround 15.000 changes in the luther bible. The original language from the first books of the first bibles where hebrew and armenian and hellenic (greek).. from there it was translated (handmade )into latin and from there into other languages copy by copy -- till martin luther did another translation and from there into english.. so what do you think how much original information is in it.

in the end its like this:

You as person - can't choose where you was born on this planet. You can't choose your genetic parents. You can't decide in which soceity you was born it. You can't decide/or stop (as man) that some other men snip on your tiny penis while you are a helpless newborn (its a criminal assault). You can't decide/or choose that you was born in Australia, India, Southern America, Middle East, Europe. You can't change the flood and sort the flood of information that adults are spreading to you even when they are wrong.

just dont trust a person who just have read one single book in his entire live.

But what you can decide by your own is to be an asshole every day or not.

inDev_ Dusk (12 months) - Subscriber In the Darkfall Univers since 2005in january 2009 i was still in a Darkfall Beta and did wait for a release... dejavu at it best!

[...] What we know about the universe and how it works is extraordinary. [...]

As I said before: Science and religion don't exclude each other. Only religious fanatics would deny scientific progress and discoveries. And on the other hand only a fool would conclude that scientific progress and discoveries are prove enough that there is no God. All we do is discovering God's creation and how He / She did it. Galileo Galilei already said "It [the universe] is written in the language of mathematics."

But no matter how long you have discussions and debates like that. You can't prove or disprove God. Especially not in an internet forum and especially not in the Darkfall forum. In the end it all depends on you and how you want to live your life and how you create your own reality.

A supernatural being or entity who exists outside of time and space yet can transcendently work outside or through arbitrary violations of natural laws to influence or determine anything they wish in the material world.

You can't know if the cat is alive or dead, until you go and observe. Related to God this means you can't know if God exists or not, until you are in a position to observe. Let it be afterlife, OOBE, NDE, PLE, LSD, Mushrooms, loss of beloved relatives, friends or whatever experience in this world or an other makes people believe or disbelief in God. And even then it is just a personal experience. You can't prove / disprove it to others.

Yes me believing a known universe is more likely to exist without an unknown and inexplicable god is just a pure 50/50 lol

Yeah....

Look I didnt start this thread, but I was called to challenge by it and if you dont like it then dont post in it, but saying god is 50/50 with 0 evidence in support is utter nonsense and akin to believing winning the lottery or losing it is 50/50.

Evidence exists everywhere. Look at your DNA. Look at nature, look at nutrition. Look at the eco system. Look at your brain and dreams. Why is your body perfectly symmetrical? Thats maths bro. The creator has left a signature of its maths in nature, look at the numbers. Intelligent design. Nothing is random. A random "big bang" would require more intelligence than a creator, think about it. Life is code. A "random" design so perfectly shaped and grown, that it self serves and learns from itself? God is not such a hard thought to comprehend, just skip over religion. Imagine a world without Bees, then look at the genius design of a bee hive. There is a lot to see if you could simply look past your overly attached ego.

Over 80,000 medical herbs are known to man, with psychedelic plants too that open new dimensions and hold a lot of wisdom. For a random and unintelligent design, nature is very smart. Look at life as code. How do we think? How do we dream? These random chemicals sure hold a lot of depth and sense. Research DMT. You know the Shamans used to take psychedelic plants to ask the spirits which herbs too take for healing?