Knull can one shot anyone but at the same time he lacks the feats to say he could tank anything from the phoenix force.

Same goes to PF Cyclops. Apart from harming God Doom(which is actually impressive but I don't think its makes any neat difference given Doom broke his neck then and thereafter), all of his fts happened due to plot from AvX.

@willpayton: Neither of those are really offensive/defensive TP feats. So I wouldn’t say that’s enough to say he can shut down a TP barrage from one of the most powerful offensive telepaths in DC.

I know, but they show his level of power. Since he can use his magical abilities to do things like TP (the first scan), there's no reason to think he cant use that offensively. As far as defensive, like I said he's fought the Spectre and done well against him, being able to hold him off for a while (of course the Spectre would eventually win). If he did not have very high TP resistance, the Spectre would just have taken him down immediately after the fight started.

While someone like Fernus is extremely powerful in TP, I dont think he can actually do much to a classic Dr Fate. If Spectre cant do it, he's not doing it. In this fight, I see him just casting a spell to shut down TP from the other side completely.

@willpayton: I don’t believe Spectre has ever tried to mindrape Fate. But if he has that would certainly be a valid enough feat to say that he could last in a TP encounter, but he’d definitely be out the fight. All he’d be doing is stalling Fernus.

And again, that’s IF the Spectre has tried a TP engagement with Fate, which I’m pretty certain he hasn’t. On top of that, Spectre varies wildly. He doesn’t necessarily always have TP superior or even equal to that of MMH.

@willpayton: I don’t believe Spectre has ever tried to mindrape Fate. But if he has that would certainly be a valid enough feat to say that he could last in a TP encounter, but he’d definitely be out the fight. All he’d be doing is stalling Fernus.

And again, that’s IF the Spectre has tried a TP engagement with Fate, which I’m pretty certain he hasn’t. On top of that, Spectre varies wildly. He doesn’t necessarily always have TP superior or even equal to that of MMH.

He would not be out of the fight because all he'd have to do is cast a spell just like in the first scan. He can do many things at the same time.

It wasnt explicitly stated that Spectre tried TP on him, but then again the Spectre was trying to take him out and there's no reason to think he just forgot about the glaring weakness if Fate indeed cant defend against it. Spectre won this fight finally by sending Fate through infinite dimensions such that Fate would take too long to get back to continue to oppose Spectre.

And that brings up another thing that Fate can do here... which is to summon very powerful monsters from the "netherworlds" to fight for him.

@willpayton: Well if Spectre never used TP against him then we can’t say Fate has a counter for it.

So again, Fernus mindrapes him and that’s it.

I see what you’re saying, Spectre SHOULDVE used TP against him. But its comics, people don’t use powers that they should all the time. So since Fate has no feats showcasing TP power on the scale of Fernus, he gets mindraped just like everyone else.

@willpayton: Well if Spectre never used TP against him then we can’t say Fate has a counter for it.

So again, Fernus mindrapes him and that’s it.

I see what you’re saying, Spectre SHOULDVE used TP against him. But its comics, people don’t use powers that they should all the time. So since Fate has no feats showcasing TP power on the scale of Fernus, he gets mindraped just like everyone else.

You can assume that if you're only going on feats, but I dont. Oftentimes characters at high levels dont have certain feats because they are irrelevant. Does TOAA have TP resistance feats? If not, he gets mind-raped as well by Fernus. Right?

Sure, in the fight the Spectre didnt outright use TP, but given the situation, it's reasonable to assume that if that was an option he'd know it and he'd have used it. Sure it's speculation, but then again... we're talking about who'd win between fictional characters that dont even occupy the same universes and have never met each other. So speculation and assumptions are the name of the game.

I'm not sure who wins between the two teams, but classic Dr Fate is likely the most powerful entity in Team 1. I'm not that familiar with Knull... maybe he's above Fate. Overall both teams are stacked with very powerful people... the fight could probably go either way.

@willpayton: Well, recently that notion has been questioned in-universe.

But to answer your question, the writers have confirmed it, they’ve confirmed it in universe, it’s a very commonly understood.

Again, you just had a bad question mate. I get your point, but you’re going about it the wrong way.

Fernus can’t mindrape anybody on a completely different cosmic level than him. Fernus has never, to my knowledge, mindraped any multiversal being, or on a multiversal scale, so he couldn’t do so to any multiversal being.

@willpayton: Well, recently that notion has been questioned in-universe.

But to answer your question, the writers have confirmed it, they’ve confirmed it in universe, it’s a very commonly understood.

Again, you just had a bad question mate. I get your point, but you’re going about it the wrong way.

Fernus can’t mindrape anybody on a completely different cosmic level than him. Fernus has never, to my knowledge, mindraped any multiversal being, or on a multiversal scale, so he couldn’t do so to any multiversal being.

That’s how feats work my man.

So you want feats, except when you dont. What happened to:

"Can’t just be applying powers to characters that have never showcased said powers."

Many in Marvel have been described as omnipotent, from Odin, the Galactus, to the Beyonder and the Celestians.

And Fernus cant mindrape anyone who's on a multiversal level, but he can mindrape Dr Fate who I already showed has multiversal-level feats? Dr Fate who once imprisoned Ynar and Vandaemeon, two multiversal entities... one a Lord of Order and the other a Lord of Chaos.

You're not making sense. You made a claim about wanting feats, but then quickly disreguard that for specific characters because it's "commonly understood". But, maybe I dont "commonly understand" it, so how about you give me feats instead. Then you also ignore that Fate is indeed multiversal, which by your second claim would also make him immune from TP from Fernus. You need to make up your mind what rules you want to go by.

To be honest the only TP feats of Classic Fate I can think of are all from his half helmet era (no Nabu in the mix and no where near the same level of power - very limited magic). During that era he often tp communicated with Inza.

He shouldn't however be MMH level based purely on the grey man story. Grey man mentally dominated Fate and he was released by MMH.

To be honest the only TP feats of Classic Fate I can think of are all from his half helmet era (no Nabu in the mix and no where near the same level of power - very limited magic). During that era he often tp communicated with Inza.

He shouldn't however be MMH level based purely on the grey man story. Grey man mentally dominated Fate and he was released by MMH.

I think the reason why there are few or no such feats is because it's kind of irrelevant to him at the level he operates at (in classic form). He was going up against universal and multiversal level threats. As I pointed out above, when he was going against an enraged Spectre, if all the Spectre had to do to stop him was telepathically put him to sleep or some such thing, he'd have done it instead of wasting time and then having to resort to BFR'ing him into infinite dimensions.