Bob Wedl of Education|EvolvingOctober 16, 2015Keep students motivated and save
money byredesigning high
school to offer grades 11-14

Overview

Education|Evolving Senior Associate Bob Wedl
makes the case for redesigning high schools for the 21st century by
creating grade 11-to-14 schools. Those schools, he says, would eliminate
the overlap between high schools and postsecondary institutions, which
often offer the same courses. And the 11-to-14 schools would offer high
school students the opportunity to earn free college credits and
credentials, possibly even A.A. or B.A. degrees, while still in high
school.

Wedl says that Minnesota's Post Secondary
Enrollment Options (PSEO) program, created by the Legislature in 1985,
is a step in this direction. It allows high school students to take
college classes for free, while earning both high school and college
credits. He points out the large savings PSEO offers families whose
students are earning free college credit and the savings to the state
from paying out less for some college courses than for per-pupil aid to
school districts. High school Advanced Placement (AP) and International
Baccalaureate (IB) programs have also offered the potential for
high school students to earn college credits. But Wedl says high schools
should drop those programs in favor of students taking actual college
classes through programs like College in the Schools, PSEO and
partnerships with postsecondary institutions, so students get guaranteed college
credits.

Although Wedl says we should try to improve
the current system, he doesn't see that as really creating the system
change the 11-to-14 schools would create. He believes those schools
would offer more personalized and more motivating learning opportunities
for high school students and even potentially draw back to school
students who have dropped out. He points to a number of Minnesota school
districts and chartered schools that have developed ways of merging high
school and postsecondary education. As in those examples, Wedl sees
openness to the redesign coming from creative school superintendents and
school boards, but not from the state.

2. Further study warranted. It would be
helpful to schedule additional interviews on this topic.

3. Bad idea to separate high school, college.
Keeping high school and the first two years of college separate is a
wasteful impediment to students' education.

4. College credit earned in high school saves
money. Allowing students to earn college credits while in high
school could save Minnesota families hundreds of millions of tuition
dollars.

5. College credit earned in high school frees
up state funds. Allowing students to earn college credits while in
high school could also save the state millions of dollars that could be
reallocated to other needs.

6. Grades 11-14 would motivate more students.
Implementing grade 11-to-14 schools would result in more
personalized learning that could help motivate students and keep some
potential dropouts in school.

7. Drop AP, IB for programs guaranteeing
credits. High schools should drop Advanced Placement (AP) and
International Baccalaureate (IB) programs in favor of College in the
Schools, PSEO and partnerships with postsecondary institutions that
offer students guaranteed college credits.

8. State government ineffective in redesign.
State government isn't working effectively to bring about the
necessary redesign of education.

9. Local units more likely to effect change.
Creative superintendents and local school boards are more likely to
provide leadership in bringing about effective redesign of education.

Response Distribution:

Strongly disagree

Moderately disagree

Neutral

Moderately agree

Strongly agree

Total Responses

1. Topic is of value.

0%

0%

0%

30%

70%

10

2. Further study warranted.

0%

0%

0%

30%

70%

10

3. Bad idea to separate high school,
college.

0%

0%

10%

60%

30%

10

4. College credit earned in high school
saves money.

0%

0%

0%

20%

80%

10

5. College credit earned in high school
frees up state funds.

0%

10%

30%

20%

40%

10

6. Grades 11-14 would motivate more
students.

0%

0%

30%

40%

30%

10

7. Drop AP, IB for programs guaranteeing
credits.

0%

0%

30%

40%

30%

10

8. State government ineffective in
redesign.

0%

0%

0%

40%

60%

10

9. Local units more likely to effect
change.

0%

0%

20%

30%

50%

10

Individual Responses:

Scott Halstead (10) (10) (7.5) (7.5) (2.5) (5)
(5) (10) (5)

4. College credit earned in high
school saves money. There would be tremendous savings in room and
board costs. How would this work across state lines? Would we lose out
of state students immigrating to Minnesota? What is the impact upon
students wishing to attend schools out of state? National Testing? How
many additional classrooms/schools/instructors and at what cost? How do
you integrate vocational and technical education?

5. College credit earned in high school frees
up state funds. That is going to require a lot of cost analysis.

8. State government ineffective in redesign.
Minnesota state government is not working effectively in all areas!

Ray Ayotte (10) (10) (10) (10) (10) (10) (10)
(10) (10)

Gordy Ziebart (10) (7.5) (7.5) (10) (10) (10)
(10) (7.5) (10)

1. Topic is of value. Totally
agree. Additional educational opportunities are a must. High school must
change and become much more individualized.

5. College credit earned in high school frees
up state funds. Why not combine resources?

6. Grades 11-14 would motivate more students.
I am a principal of an ALC. Students graduating upon completing 12th
grade is often more the goal of adults than the students.

7. Drop AP, IB for programs guaranteeing
credits. These students should be in PSEO. AP and IB are total
wastes of resources.

8. State government ineffective in redesign.
I believe MDE would like to do more. However, they are strapped for
resources like everyone else.

9. Local units more likely to effect change.
Has to start at the local district level. It is up to the individual
districts to form partnerships with higher education.

Our current system is in need of significant
overhaul. These concepts and ideas are very attainable.

Dennis Carlson (10) (10) (10) (10) (10) (10)
(7.5) (10) (10)

4. College credit earned in high
school saves money. It also allows students who could never afford
current college costs to actually get a degree.

7. Drop AP, IB for programs guaranteeing
credits. A transition needs to take place. Anoka-Hennepin is making
those changes currently.

8. State government ineffective in redesign.
Too much time and energy is spent on turf wars. Institutions don't want
to lose revenue so they do not embrace what is best for students and
their families.

9. Local units more likely to effect change.
Yes it happens, but it is very frustrating work as obstacles are found
everywhere at the higher education level.

Bob Wedl is an outstanding spokesperson and
leader on this topic. I applaud his vision and his courage.

Bob Brown (7.5) (10) (10) (10) (5) (7.5) (7.5)
(10) (7.5)

8. State government ineffective
in redesign. Too many decisions are to meet the needs of adults
(teachers' unions, colleges, interest groups, and administrators) rather
than the needs of individual students.

Charles A. Slocum (10) (10) (7.5) (10) (7.5)
(5) (5) (10) (7.5)

1. Topic is of value. This is
one of the most comprehensive policy summaries I have read; very
informative from a historical (post-1985) perspective with most specific
ideas for change to help guide in shaping a successful workforce.

3. Bad idea to separate high school, college.
We must think of it as a continuing experience, integrated to
effectively teach students as they move to the world of work.

6. Grades 11-14 would motivate more students.
Need more study here and some test sites with real measurement.

8. State government ineffective in redesign.
Government in general is not especially effective at redesign—local
better than state, and state better than federal, etc.

9. Local units more likely to effect change.
Must encourage leadership for effective redesign at all levels in every
sector, must test, measure and provide real data to determine who works.

Vici Oshiro (7.5) (10) (5) (10) (5) (5) (5)
(7.5) (5)

Neutral on several questions because
I think this whole subject needs to be considered in a much broader
context. Instead of elaborating let me refer you to thenextsystem.org.
I'd be happy to discuss this more if you like.

Tom Abeles (na) (na) (na) (na) (na) (na) (na)
(na) (na)

This presentation, well crafted and
well known in the education community deserves serious unpacking.

1) Many of the more advanced students and
their parents aim for medallion universities and not graduation from
secondary schools and post secondary programs and into "jobs". Bob's
focus is on convincing students that this is the path to jobs,
vocationalization.

2) While the examples Bob gives, many of which
have been interviewed by Civic Caucus are from the vocational side of
education, there are programs that encourage a broader education. This
includes Early College (a variance of CIS, IB and AP). The latter two
Bob dismisses because of his focus. I would note that Bard now, with its
program at Simon Rock offers students as early as 9 to enter into a
rigorous academic program provided by college-qualified faculty.

3) Buried in Bob's comments is an inference to
competency-based education where students proceed at their own pace. Bob
is right in that if this is created then the old AP/IB/CIS/PSEO credit
based programs will disappear naturally.

4) The programs that Bob cites grew
organically, based on a variety of site-specific confluences. Pushing
the MDE to "mandate" another formal program and then expecting all to
come, as in a "field of dreams" is delusional at best for all the
reasons Bob lists that are keeping parties from coming together.
Mandates are problematic at best.

Commander Jean Luc Picard in the TV series
Star Trek issues a command and then says "make it so Mr Sulu. Education
is not a command/control "Enterprise".

By the way, Market Place did an interview with
an automotive production line worker who noted that high school grads
are making 80K/year in his facility.

Wayne Jennings (10) (10) (9) (10) (8) (9) (10)
(8) (10)

Hooray for the school districts
already moving ahead and for Wedl’s being a continuing spokesperson for
the redesign of high school and postsecondary. It’s much needed. I
appreciate his remarks about other forms of higher education than just
typical college/university course work—in other works vocational,
commercial, service and industry training. Too many students don’t
realize the possibilities of other postsecondary programs.

The emphasis on college and career readiness
(note reversal of these terms—versus career and college readiness)
causes too many students to head to community colleges and sit in on
literature and history courses not unlike their high school courses they
found irrelevant. Results: many drop out without getting their teeth
into career programs. It’s like, for many, that they have to first prove
themselves by persistence and discipline.

A more realistic approach of combining high
school with postsecondary, as with Wedl’s examples, would increase
motivation to acquire better basic skills. We also have to drop the
requirement of algebra II and other programs, meaningless for individual
student goals.

The dropping of International Baccalaureate (IB)
and Advanced Placement (AP) courses is a great suggestion in an era of
the availability of college courses. Those two (IB, AP) now try to
establish pre-high school grades, an example of academia run amok,
though a benefit to gifted students, which would be unnecessary with a
redesigned education.

The Legislature should require colleges and
universities to recognize present College in the School courses that
will be denied under the accreditation agency recent ruling.
Accreditation isn’t going to remove their imprimatur of all MN higher
education institutions in defiance of the Legislature.

Chuck Lutz (8) (8) (9) (10) (10) (9) (9) (8)
(9)

Tom Spitznagle (10) (8) (7) (8) (5) (8) (8)
(10) (10)

Current publicly funded education
systems from K-12 up through MNSCU, their employee’s unions, the
governor and the Democrats (who are heavily dependent on union support)
are way too focused on their own perpetuation at the expense of students
and parents. It’s almost criminal. Allow students and parents to direct
public money according to their needs via vouchers. Let the various
educational institutions, both public and private, collaborate (as a few
seem to already be doing) to offer competitive options for students.
These options could start as early as 9th grade and go up through trade
school or college. Allow creativity to flourish and let the free market
determine the survivors. This approach would help circumvent the
dysfunctional political process that controls education funding which,
in turn, exerts too much control over education systems design.

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