No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

well no, none of my group was acting stupid or anything of the sort. all of us know what were doing and we were very friendly. your thoughts on my whipper could have been it though.. it looked bad from the ground but it wasnt bad at all. they could have thought what you said and that makes me think better of them. i'll go with that.

Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

lol wow yours is worse than mine! thats just an obvious slap in the face by a selfish person.. sorry to hear that. i am always nice to everyone. me and my gf are always eager to make friends and share unique experiences.

Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

That's pretty silly. The beauty of single pitch climbing is, as long as you're willing to lead, any two people can partner up without slowing one another down. Certain crags may be out of the question but there are plenty of crags that have a really solid mix of climbs.

In the loose affiliation of climbers I belong too, people max out everywhere from .10a to .13b on lead and its rarely a problem. If someone is projecting it can require some compromise but it is a "partnership" after all.

I had a similar situation with a climber who knew what grades I climbed. I could clean their routes if I was hang dogging and it was agreed upon that I would clean their routes and they would clean mine. We drove to the New and I covered the gas on the way there and they were going to cover it on the way back. Unknown to me they had plans to meet another climber there, more up to their level and I was left to try and find a partner to climb with. I said F-THAT and packed up my rack (which they wanted to use) all of the camping gear (all mine including the sleeping bag they had borrowed from me) and hauled my ass to NH and solo'ed in Huntington. It was one of best trips. I never talked to them again, but I know they gave up climbing and are now about 100lbs over weight.

No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.

Alright so i was at summersville at the long wall. There was a group already there and we made friends quickly.. well after a while, I gear up to climb a 5.9 (forget the name). Well i couldnt finish the route.. my body was just crushed from 3 days prior of climbing from 9 am till about 7. i took a pretty sweet whipper on that route too. but after I was lowered to the ground the group we were talking to completely shunned us after that. It was so crazy, i couldnt understand what the deal was till our neighbors at the campsite (AAC) told us about some climbers being arrogant fucks.

there are alot of people who are scared of their own shadow ... many of them simply top rope moderates all day and/or lead easy stuff with double racks

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.

I hope you are not talking about the Darkside accident that i am thinking of. I don't think so, bc I don't think there was warmup at Solar Collector, but it is pretty sad that there has been more than one accident at the same crag by now.

I have struggled with saying something vs. not saying something. A lot of times, you can tell ow your comment would be received even before you open your mouth...

If it is a simple thing, e.g.:

--hey, your knot is not finished! --hey, your rope end is not on the ground! --hey, you are standing way too far from the wall, he is going to drag you in if he falls. --hey guys, you really should have the directionals if you want to toprope this route. --hey, keep him tight, there is a lot of rope stretch when you are starting to toprope a long route like that

that's pretty simple and if I see something like that I would say it. (And actually have said all of the above, some things on more than one occasion)

But sometimes it is just too much. It feels like you would have to actually take people under your wing and spend hours explaining things if you were to do a thorough job, and at that point it is just not possible for me.

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

No, I have not had an experience like this. However, I have walked away from areas occupied by groups that seemed like way too much clusterfuck in the making.

I am not saying that this is what was going on in your case, but one person's "sweet whipper" is another person's "holly shit, this guy came within an inch of being carried away on a stretcher, and he is whooping with joy and doesn't seem to realize it, and neither does his belayer, who only seems to have caught him by sheer dumb luck".

When you encounter such situation, where it doesn't seem like a simple short advice or correction would help remedy the situation, when a group of people behaves obnoxiously and doesn't seem to realize it, then people do tend to withdraw or leave.

Again, not saying that this was the case in your situation. Arrogant assholes happen in every walk of life, and climbing is no exception.

You know, I did this one time. I still regret it to this day.

My wife and I were climbing at Solar Collector in the Red, just trying to get warmed up for the day so we could move over to the Gold Coast. We were both a little sketched out by the party next to us who seemed to be distracted and having a lot of difficulty communicating. The belaying wasn't perfect, as is usual in the Red. We assumed they were relatively new and we had been helping a whole lot of people stay safe through the course of the last month. I even had to ask a guy if he was thinking about tying in while he was clipping the first bolt on the day before. As usual, they were offended I said something.

This was our last trip until the Fall, so we kept out heads down and our mouths shut. We even walked over to the other side of the crag. This party left and went to the Dark Side. Not an hour later we learned of the accident in this party.

Not saying that everyone has to say something, but it will always be right for me to speak up when people are sketchy. A lot of people think I'm a dick at the crag, but I'm really just trying to make sure that I never feel like I could have prevented an accident again. No one ever really gives a shit; I always get ignored. But I can't just let it go.

I hope you are not talking about the Darkside accident that i am thinking of. I don't think so, bc I don't think there was warmup at Solar Collector, but it is pretty sad that there has been more than one accident at the same crag by now.

I have struggled with saying something vs. not saying something. A lot of times, you can tell ow your comment would be received even before you open your mouth...

If it is a simple thing, e.g.:

--hey, your knot is not finished! --hey, your rope end is not on the ground! --hey, you are standing way too far from the wall, he is going to drag you in if he falls. --hey guys, you really should have the directionals if you want to toprope this route. --hey, keep him tight, there is a lot of rope stretch when you are starting to toprope a long route like that

that's pretty simple and if I see something like that I would say it. (And actually have said all of the above, some things on more than one occasion)

But sometimes it is just too much. It feels like you would have to actually take people under your wing and spend hours explaining things if you were to do a thorough job, and at that point it is just not possible for me.

It is the accident you are thinking of. We really thought that the belaying and level of distraction was sketchy. I had been blown off one too many times recently and didn't feel like dealing with it for once. Never again.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

Sorta... there's is someone I met from this forum and they climbed a much higher grade than me.

This wasn't an issue when I was driving their ass to the Red, it wasn't an issue when they needed me to set their tent up for them, wasn't even an issue when they didnt know how to operate their stove. They didn't seem to have a problem with me when they asked me to pick up groceries in town since I was going anyway.

However, once the subject of grades came up, I was a full 2 points below them. This meant that she had to find another partner to climb with - since neither douchewad bitchface or her new partner had a vehicle, I was good enough to be told I should drive them to the crag, but I wouldn't get any climbing in because I'm not at their level and her climbing is serious business.

Since I opted not to play taxi to someone who still hadn't paid for gas for the 10hr drive down, I was shunned for the rest of the time I was there... Quite comical to be having awesome conversations and connections with the other 99% of people I met and just the one dumbass giving the death glare every time I was within sight.

first rule of road trips ...

dont go with someone who climbs much easier or harder than you ...

the "better" climber will be bored as hell ... and the "lesser" climber will be struggling on stuff all the time

many crags that the better climber will want to go to wont have stuff that the lesser climber can lead

and dont even talk about multi ... nothing kills a climbing trip than having to haul someone up 10+ pitches

find someone within a grade of you for long trips ...

its that simple

I disagree.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

Life is definitely easier if two partners climb comparable grades, but I agree, for single-pitch sport cragging it is entirely workable with any grade combination-- as long as there is desire to work together.

For example, this spring i went on a week-long trip with a partner whose climbing ability doesn't mesh well with mine. The logistics of climbing were very simple and the trip was very enjoyable. We were on staggered 2on/1off schedule, so it meant that one day it was my choice of a crag, he was just belaying. Then it was his choice of the crag, I was just belaying. And then it was a compromise choice of a crag that worked for both of us.

But on the flip side, this was a trip without a major goal. It was a trip to check out a new climbing area, so everything was new and fun, regardless of the grades.

If you have a goal to work/redpoint specific routes, and your climbing partner does not have the same goal, and cannot climb/is not interested in climbing anything at the area where your "project" is located, and the trip is relatively short (say, a week), this is where widely disparate grades start to affect the partner harmony.

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

You get your day of 5.13 single-pitch wankery where I'll belay for hours on end on your project, you put up a toprope on an 11 for me to practice hard moves on while you're between burns.

The next day we'll go do a day of easy stuff while you rest up for your redpoint tomorrow. We do 15 pitches on a 5.6 just for the joy of it.

After that we meet some people split up for a day or two and climb again.

Holy shit, everybody wins! No need to be a douchebro just to prove you're better at a very (in the grand scheme of life) insignificant skill than someone else.

on road trips people often have objectives ... and those objectives often involve doing certain climbs at certain levels

especially on multi, which is a goal for many roadtrips to places like yos, squamish, the rockies ... if you want to do a multi near your limit ... the person needs to be able to follow quickly and efficiently and not hangdog ... its simply not safe on long multi to not be able to do the climb decently ... youll be wasting time increasing the objective risks, youll be making it a gongshow for everyone else, and there are simply places even following where you cant fall safely

for cragging roadtrips ... youll be limiting yourself to crags that have easy stuff for people to warm up on and lead ... many places i know with the "best" hard sport climbing generally have most of the climbs in the "harder" range ... you simply cant go to those crags anymore as your climber cant make it up

usually those who climb at a good level want to push themselves as hard as they can ... and if yr spending the money on a road trip, you want to do certain climbs and not have a partner that limits you as to what you can do

cragging at your local crag is a bit different as you know youll have many days to take your time and climb ... also with local partners youll take up "lesser" ones to train em up for the longer term

one of the more common complaints and reasons for not doing roadtrips again with some people is because their climbing levels dont match

i dont expect people who climb much harder than me to take me on road trips ... and i expect you to lead at a certain level on a road trip ... never had an issue with any roadtrip which had that expectation stated up front

Then don't ever ask me for a lift.

Or ask for a lift but specify that you don't plan on climbing together. AND PITCH IN FOR GAS + OIL CHANGE (esp if your driving Ontario -> RRG)