That's alright. I have a fairly simple metric in such matters. I give the benefit of the doubt to the ship[s] that stayed above water.

But, back to this subject--a number of hits by the IJN cruisers Nachi and Haguro at the Batle of the Java Sea were also at very great range. Japanese action reports show firing at the allied battle line under Doorman at ranges of 23,700 meters [26+k yds] up to 27,800 meters [+30k yds] in the opening phase of the battle. One of the dud hits on De Ruyter later may have been in the 19,200m [21k yds] to 27,600m [=30k yds] range. Both hits on Houston were probably at ranges from 21k to 25k meters...

alecsandros wrote:... All the claims have been disproved in more recent analysis, IIRC...Japanese records are notoriously overstated.

So every claim, huh? I'd like to see the sources for these refuted claims, if you would. Because frankly, this sounds like standard issue Ameriburger butthurt. Can't stand having the other guy get an edge up, so naturally his claims must be bogus.

There's an ongoing discussion at navweapons forum about this. So far, the best argument the supporters there have is "Japanese sources mention 34000y hit and that MUST BE CORRECT". Oh, realy... ?

alecsandros wrote:... All the claims have been disproved in more recent analysis, IIRC...Japanese records are notoriously overstated.

So every claim, huh? I'd like to see the sources for these refuted claims, if you would. Because frankly, this sounds like standard issue Ameriburger butthurt. Can't stand having the other guy get an edge up, so naturally his claims must be bogus.

It's funny you should say that, because essentially all of the American posters are defending the Japanese claim against Alecsandros' attempts to refute it.

alecsandros wrote:... All the claims have been disproved in more recent analysis, IIRC...Japanese records are notoriously overstated.

So every claim, huh? I'd like to see the sources for these refuted claims, if you would. Because frankly, this sounds like standard issue Ameriburger butthurt. Can't stand having the other guy get an edge up, so naturally his claims must be bogus.

There's an ongoing discussion at navweapons forum about this. So far, the best argument the supporters there have is "Japanese sources mention 34000y hit and that MUST BE CORRECT". Oh, realy... ?

..... I don't agree at all with Alecsandros's characterization of the Navweaps discussion. Readers here are invited to read the Navweaps forum discussion and draw their own conclusions.