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Actually Iz none of that is proof of what I actually said and I can say all of what they said to me right back at them if I so chose to and some that attacked me there were the ones harping about how she had to go back to being British so they were doing what I was then accused of doing...but it was fine for them to do it...and how was I bullying anyone, was I calling anyone any derogatory or insulating name, calling any of them stupid, all I keep hearing is how what I want for said characters and how my views on characters on wrong...that sounds like bullying to me...

I think that Warren will get a permanent solution about as soon as Jean does with the Phoenix sadly...

Actually Iz none of that is proof of what I actually said and I can say all of what they said to me right back at them if I so chose to and some that attacked me there were the ones harping about how she had to go back to being British so they were doing what I was then accused of doing...but it was fine for them to do it...and how was I bullying anyone, was I calling anyone any derogatory or insulating name, calling any of them stupid, all I keep hearing is how what I want for said characters and how my views on characters on wrong...that sounds like bullying to me...

If you want to be ignorant. Be ignorant. But when people call you out on it because you can't learn to be decent don't come ranting in the forums expecting people to be nice or that anyone is going to take your side. If you have proof show me the quotes and show me the source where you got them or else it didn't happen. If I can find proof in 5 minutes so can you.

Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33

I've never once insulted anyone or called anyone a name...and there's been more than a few who have done what you're describing to me and yet no one says anything about them...and my comment was not attacking any poster...

I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

Anybody can accuse anybody of anything, I was asking for the posts that where I supposedly bullied people or blew my top...I'm not saying that I've never disagreed with anyone or argued with anyone only that I don't remember any of my posts that would be considered bullying, I don't remember the thread her where I said that Laura and Betsy were kinda sisters and then you came back and said that I'd said that they were sisters...not exactly the topic at hand but it's an example where you edited what I said to make me look wrong/bad...

As for Warren still hoping that he doesn't die anytime soon, not with so many dead characters coming back, hope they don't want to balance things out...

Anybody can accuse anybody of anything, I was asking for the posts that where I supposedly bullied people or blew my top...I'm not saying that I've never disagreed with anyone or argued with anyone only that I don't remember any of my posts that would be considered bullying, I don't remember the thread her where I said that Laura and Betsy were kinda sisters and then you came back and said that I'd said that they were sisters...not exactly the topic at hand but it's an example where you edited what I said to make me look wrong/bad...

I gave you proof but as I said if you want to be ignorant, be ignorant. Show me you are being bullied or else it didn't happen. If I can you could too.
Also please learn to read a post. Not everyone that replies is attacking you but if you want to see it that way go ahead. Make things up and accuse people of taking things out of context, its what you do best.

I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

Again I'm not bashing Charlotte as a character, their relationship, or saying that it was ended well by Marvel...again as for Neal he and Betsy only happened because CC was leaving Uncanny to write X-treme and didn't want to take Warren along, otherwise W/B would not have broken up for a good long while so it was a rush job and then Neal just blew up in a bad way as a character and is now best left in limbo imho...

Yeah it's bad what Warren said but again he'd just had his head messed with by Nate on top of his head already being messed up with the two sides of himself already in there so he was far from being in his right mind when he said it and no I don't just expect them to just rush back together just saying that so far there's nothing that can't be overcome, nothing that would take years of storytelling to get past imho...

Yeah they might have not liked the X-Men to have romantic interests outside of the X-Men and that could have helped lead to the demise of the pairing...

I'm going to have to disagree with you when it comes to Betsy and Neal, Logan. It's because I think that you have to go with what appears on the written page of a comic as canon, and not what story a writer may have intended to write later on. And Psylocke was definitely after Neal. That's why Angel broke up with her, and it happened on panel. Sorry.

If you don't like Charlotte than that is fine. I see no needless bashing in your post. It's not bashing a story or character to simply state that you don't like it.

Originally Posted by Izanami

The only one who dodges the weird in hindsight bullet is Candy Southern and to an extend Dazzler. Had Louise stayed longer she would of developed the relationship further as shown in X-Factor Forever. It was nice seeing Warren take Timmy to school and bond. Same with X-Men Forever where Warren is still with Claremazon style Charlotte. It does make me wonder what if Warren joined Excalibur or stayed in X-Factor what sort of relationship would he of had or what other character they would of paired him with. It seemed really lame the way they treated Charlotte its not her fault for what Louise did with Candy being put in the refrigerator. It was very unimaginative how they paired a black cop with a black time cop. Very original. *sigh* You think when Candy showed up they would of at least not killed her off. It would of been interesting had she survived and adopted powers similar to warlock. We all knew Candy was the brains behind the relationship and The Defenders. She could of been an interesting support for Warren as well as communicator, that way they won't overshadow one another and she gets to be in the action without being a damsel in distress. I know there are people out there who believe I am a Psylocke x Warren hater but the forget that I mention several times if the characters are happy with one another I am okay with the relationship. It's why I like several pairings with the same character. Their modern stories with each other are just boring in my opinion and they just keep falling flat for me. It was a nice run but they had their time. I look forward to their future relationships with other characters than with eachother. And no, you are not going to convince me their relationship is worth salvaging. Its just toxic and irreparable for me. If you disagree, you disagree and just leave it at that.

I'm going to have to be honest. I didn't like X-Factor Forever, or X-Men Forever. And I particularly found Warren's relationship with Charlotte and her son to be uninteresting.

It would be hypocritical of me to not point out that stories Simonson intended to write and than didn't get the chance to shouldn't count as cannon. Not after what I said about Psylocke/Neal earlier in this post. And X-Factor Forever was out of continuity anyway. Not saying this to bash.

I do like the idea of Candy having continued on as a Warlock type of character after Hodge brought her back. She would have made for an interesting partner for Archangel. And you are right about Candy being the brains behind the Defenders when she was leader of that team. And I believe that it was stated that Candy basically ran Warren's business company while he was off playing super hero.

Originally Posted by Izanami

Inconsistency is what I meant but I couldn't think about it at the time. At this point, his persona and status are unknown after Disassembled. From there we will see what is in store for him if death or limbo don't claim him. He needs to leave X-Men desperately in my opinion. Wonder how he will be in the Thunderbolts or in Thor's world? Feel free to disagree.

If Warren were to leave the X-Men, I would prefer for him to appear in the Thunderbolts. I really like Jason Aaron's Thor, but I don't see how Archangel fits in there. Especially as Asgard already has Angela, and the angels of Heven. I just don't see any room for Archangel there. But who knows? Maybe someone has a great idea for how to use Archangel there.

I'm going to have to be honest. I didn't like X-Factor Forever, or X-Men Forever. And I particularly found Warren's relationship with Charlotte and her son to be uninteresting.It would be hypocritical of me to not point out that stories Simonson intended to write and than didn't get the chance to shouldn't count as cannon. Not after what I said about Psylocke/Neal earlier in this post. And X-Factor Forever was out of continuity anyway. Not saying this to bash.I do like the idea of Candy having continued on as a Warlock type of character after Hodge brought her back. She would have made for an interesting partner for Archangel. And you are right about Candy being the brains behind the Defenders when she was leader of that team. And I believe that it was stated that Candy basically ran Warren's business company while he was off playing super hero.

It's fine, you like what you like.
Simonsons writting is a hit or a miss, you either like it or you don't, but at least she gave us Cameron Hodge the bunny boiler and sweet Archangel with Apocalypse drawn by her husband.
I found the relationship interesting due to the potential dynamic. I would of liked to see Archangel adopt Timmy one way or the other even if it meant Charlotte no longer lived muahahahaha. Sadly comics are an ongoing series and there are no happy endings. If Warren were to die and not be brought back or replaced it would be a sad day for us indeed. And dude, no need to worry I can tell when someone is bashing and someone is not. You disagree, you stated your point, and you kept it civil. That a lot considering how easily these forums turn into flame wars. Thanks.

I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

I don't deny what happened between Neal and Betsy, only that it was never intended to happen and highly unlikely to happen again anytime soon, sadly I can't say never as this is comics but it's one of the more unlikely ones and it all had to happen in a rush so that contributed to everyone involved being written badly to many...

Not sure where Warren would fit in if he left the X-Men, then again they could always restart Excalibur or something like it and have Warren go there along with Betsy and Brian and Meggan and say Kurt and one or two others or something like that...

What if the keep Archangel in human form with metal wings without a broken psyche?

Sorry, for not responding sooner.I am all for this. I know that I sound like a broken record, But I really feel like they should have just kept where Bunn was going with Archangel and the Sleeper Mutants. It could have lead to some nice new stories for Archangel. Just my opinion.

The thing is that when you have a change in creative teams, well, not all of the new writers are going to want to keep all of the old writers' ideas. It seems that right now, the current X-writers prefer to tell stories with broken psyche Archangel. They may not be interested in any thing else right now. Hopefully, Archangel ends up living, and the regression to broken psyche Archangel is just a temporary step to to move Archangel forward in a new direction.

#10 preview is out now and except Warren's attacking Magneto there's nothing wrong with him so far.

Live or die in 20 pages.

I'm almost leaning to live at this point. Warren's role in the story has become so small that he is really nothing more than an after thought. I was getting ready to make a post commenting on how Warren had basically disappeared, and had started to receive very little dialogue. If Archangel were to die, I would think that more would have happened in terms of build up. But, who knows? This story has been a little bit all over the place in terms of characters walking in and out of the story.

If Archangel does get killed, I'm putting my money on it being Nate or Storm who does him in. Nate for betraying him, or Storm because she took his place in the Horseman.
Kind of ironic that Storm didn't seem to trust Archangel all that much after he was freed from Nate's mind control, only to become a Horseman herself.

I'm almost leaning to live at this point. Warren's role in the story has become so small that he is really nothing more than an after thought. I was getting ready to make a post commenting on how Warren had basically disappeared, and had started to receive very little dialogue. If Archangel were to die, I would think that more would have happened in terms of build up. But, who knows? This story has been a little bit all over the place in terms of characters walking in and out of the story.

If Archangel does get killed, I'm putting my money on it being Nate or Storm who does him in. Nate for betraying him, or Storm because she took his place in the Horseman.
Kind of ironic that Storm didn't seem to trust Archangel all that much after he was freed from Nate's mind control, only to become a Horseman herself.

This story really sucks. The plot and dialogue were stupid, Nate Grey was full of nonsense and X-Men continued to be incompetent. None of characters was treated right, I wish writers forgot Warren's existence like they mostly did in previous issues.

I think Nate killing Warren seems reasonable to happen, maybe the final pages were Nate selecting people who he thinks to be qualified to enter his AU. Not every X-Man who has showed up turns out to appear in AoXM, right? But I hope they're just ignored not killed, everybody deserves better than die in this terrible event.

Well so far I don't know why Nate didn't then just make Warren one of his horsemen again unless he couldn't or Storm was closer, and Nate doesn't seem angry at Warren for breaking free of his control that much either, and for all that we know perhaps those that get taken into the event are just the ones closest to Nate or the ones still awake when they get taken, leaving the rest to try to pick up the pieces and wonder what to do next...Warren included...

This story really sucks. The plot and dialogue were stupid, Nate Grey was full of nonsense and X-Men continued to be incompetent. None of characters was treated right, I wish writers forgot Warren's existence like they mostly did in previous issues.

I think Nate killing Warren seems reasonable to happen, maybe the final pages were Nate selecting people who he thinks to be qualified to enter his AU. Not every X-Man who has showed up turns out to appear in AoXM, right? But I hope they're just ignored not killed, everybody deserves better than die in this terrible event.

This is what happens when editorial and several writers clash to get the plot going.

On another note If Warren where to die it would be either a shock moment or a "meh" casualty with very little mourning. The fact that he was reverted badly (again) and was instrumental for being a horseman of salvation may or may not suggest he is part of something. Don't know if that something is good or bad or if he was merely just a fun idea that was thrown around during the creation of this arc. If he were to die while being angry at Psylocke it would be a nice way to cut the mourning and the sympathy as well as having her move on quickly to something new; which they are eager to do. That is just my two cents feel free to agree, speculate more, or disagree.

I come when there's something to take but I never give anything back.
I know what you want. But it is not here. It's gone and it will never ever come again...

This is what happens when editorial and several writers clash to get the plot going.

On another note If Warren where to die it would be either a shock moment or a "meh" casualty with very little mourning. The fact that he was reverted badly (again) and was instrumental for being a horseman of salvation may or may not suggest he is part of something. Don't know if that something is good or bad or if he was merely just a fun idea that was thrown around during the creation of this arc. If he were to die while being angry at Psylocke it would be a nice way to cut the mourning and the sympathy as well as having her move on quickly to something new; which they are eager to do. That is just my two cents feel free to agree, speculate more, or disagree.

I don't think there would be a "shock moment" of Warren again, just plain meh. He being killed is not surprising since the story has already given enough hints, even though I still found it stupid to kill just few less necessary characters in a "No One Survives The Experience" story.

I'm all for Betsy and Warren to go separate ways and explore new things, but not by simply killing Warren off.

This story really sucks. The plot and dialogue were stupid, Nate Grey was full of nonsense and X-Men continued to be incompetent. None of characters was treated right, I wish writers forgot Warren's existence like they mostly did in previous issues.

I think Nate killing Warren seems reasonable to happen, maybe the final pages were Nate selecting people who he thinks to be qualified to enter his AU. Not every X-Man who has showed up turns out to appear in AoXM, right? But I hope they're just ignored not killed, everybody deserves better than die in this terrible event.

Perhaps Nate just decides that Archangel is unworthy of entering his pocket reality because he rejected returning to Nate once he was freed from Nate's control. So maybe Archangel is simply left behind.
Or maybe Archangel is a character that will appear in Age of X-Man, and he just hasn't been revealed yet.
Or maybe I am just getting my hopes up that Archangel wont be killed.

Originally Posted by LoganAlpha30X33

Well so far I don't know why Nate didn't then just make Warren one of his horsemen again unless he couldn't or Storm was closer, and Nate doesn't seem angry at Warren for breaking free of his control that much either, and for all that we know perhaps those that get taken into the event are just the ones closest to Nate or the ones still awake when they get taken, leaving the rest to try to pick up the pieces and wonder what to do next...Warren included...

I still think that Nate didn't restore Warren to being one of his Horseman because Warren had already rejected him.

But, speaking of Storm, I don't know why Nate didn't just pick her to be one of his Horseman to begin with. Characters like Storm, Emma Frost, or Polaris would have made much stronger Horseman than the likes of Blob or Omega Red.

Originally Posted by Izanami

This is what happens when editorial and several writers clash to get the plot going.

On another note If Warren where to die it would be either a shock moment or a "meh" casualty with very little mourning. The fact that he was reverted badly (again) and was instrumental for being a horseman of salvation may or may not suggest he is part of something. Don't know if that something is good or bad or if he was merely just a fun idea that was thrown around during the creation of this arc. If he were to die while being angry at Psylocke it would be a nice way to cut the mourning and the sympathy as well as having her move on quickly to something new; which they are eager to do. That is just my two cents feel free to agree, speculate more, or disagree.

What makes you think that the writers were clashing with each other and editorial? Perhaps I'm not picking up on this because I am having a hard time figuring out which writer is writing which scenes.

If the X-Office is planning to kill Warren off, and the harsh language that Warren uses on Betsy is just a way for Psylocke to move on without having to mourn for Warren, well, that would be pretty lame. Especially as we have already seen something like this. Psylocke was supposed to lose feel her ability to feel emotion in Dark Angel Saga just so that she wouldn't feel sad that Warren was dead, and she could immediately move into a relationship with Fantomex.

Originally Posted by Cyyyke

I don't think there would be a "shock moment" of Warren again, just plain meh. He being killed is not surprising since the story has already given enough hints, even though I still found it stupid to kill just few less necessary characters in a "No One Survives The Experience" story.

I'm all for Betsy and Warren to go separate ways and explore new things, but not by simply killing Warren off.

Yeah, there is no need to kill off Warren just so Betsy can move on without him. I'm tired of Psylocke /Archangel, but killing Warren of isn't a way to move Psylocke into new stories. And like I saidearlier in this post, we have already seen this story in Dark Angel Saga. Surely there is a better way for Warren and Betsy to move on to new stories without killing one of them.