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Re: Everything All The Time

Originally Posted by xi0

He did? I think I heard something similar. To me, as someone who played a bunch of different sports...I sort of scoff at sabermetrics, because it's a game, not math. However, the business side always takes precedent, and because it "works", and I say "works" because the Oakland A's have never had the ultimate success using this method.

Though I wonder if it could be applied to different sports with the same results as baseball. Who knows really, it's a bit over my head.

Every action in baseball can be quantified numerically. Stats mean everything in baseball, always have, always will. Batting average, ERA, runs batted in, and other traditional stats are still math. Sabrmetrics are simply better math, accounting for more variables, and allowing a better understanding of performance.

Advanced statistics only work for baseball. Baseball is the only sport that can be completely expressed by numbers. There is no way to numerically quantify how well basketball players set screens, route running in football, etc. In most sports there are to many things happening away from the play, that can not be computed statistically. In baseball everything can, including fielding.

Baseball teams can not be judged based on titles. Playoffs did not even exist until 1969. Franchise success is best measured by division titles (league titles before 1969) and number of winning seasons. By that measure the A's have been an incredibly successful franchise under Billy Beane.

Trading star players, or allowing them to leave as free agents, is nothing new for the Athletics. That's how they've operated for 100 years, since Connie Mack broke up the first dynasty in 1914.

Quote:

He owns around two thirds of the shares, the rest is owned by a shady soviet uzbek billionaire, Alisher Usmanov.

Would I be wrong to say that shady billionaires from former Soviet Republics and Middle Eastern oil billionaires have major financial stakes in European Football?

Re: Everything All The Time

Originally Posted by Doraku

Considering that I witnessed several sport teams which are using sabermetrics - not professional teams, though - are quite successful, I believe that the usage of statistic in sport is not something I'd hate. So in general I think if the team's budget can be used more efficiently, why not?

It's best applied in those cases. When you have more money than god, it's not really necessary to run a team that way.

Ah cool!

Originally Posted by Imperium

So how excited is Baltimore getting for this weekend?

There was a send-off parade for the team today down in the harbor before they caught their flight to New Orleans. My brother actually asked if I wanted to go, and then I slapped him around a bit for being stupid. It coincided with some icy weather, so that made it even worse of an idea.

Originally Posted by 3c

Who else has gone from so godly to so average? I can't think of any... Maybe my mind is dull. Kaka got destroyed by injuries and never finding back to his form. It's not Madrid's fault. It's not like Madrid has forced him to stay for so long. Kaka hasn't used the transfer windows because he loves the club and its players.

Who cares about Arsenal v Pool, the latter is a joke of a team. I hope Arsenal keeps a clean sheet and keeps Suarez at bay, so I get good stats in the fantasy league.

Well yeah, that's injuries playing a part as well I guess. Just coincidence I guess?

Every action in baseball can be quantified numerically. Stats mean everything in baseball, always have, always will. Batting average, ERA, runs batted in, and other traditional stats are still math. Sabrmetrics are simply better math, accounting for more variables, and allowing a better understanding of performance.

Advanced statistics only work for baseball. Baseball is the only sport that can be completely expressed by numbers. There is no way to numerically quantify how well basketball players set screens, route running in football, etc. In most sports there are to many things happening away from the play, that can not be computed statistically. In baseball everything can, including fielding.

Baseball teams can not be judged based on titles. Playoffs did not even exist until 1969. Franchise success is best measured by division titles (league titles before 1969) and number of winning seasons. By that measure the A's have been an incredibly successful franchise under Billy Beane.

Trading star players, or allowing them to leave as free agents, is nothing new for the Athletics. That's how they've operated for 100 years, since Connie Mack broke up the first dynasty in 1914.

What? How can fielding be accounted for mathematically so precisely? It accounts for every variable? What a player did the night before? Him wearing a new pair of cleats that he hasn't broken in fully yet? Him forgetting to put down his shades of a fly ball lost in the sun? C'mon . The game is played every day for 5+ months essentially. While I don't sneeze at sabermetrics or advanced statistics, I can't accept that it accounts for EVERY variable in a game. It just doesn't sounds reasonable to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

I think I have heard of it being used in other sports though, and considering how many tertiary stats there are in soccer I don't know it's beyond the realm of possibility that it can be applied in some of the same ways. It did come from business after all.

Sure a team can be judged on titles. You just proved my point by pointing out League Pennants and Division titles. That's not the same as that ugly World Series trophy, but it sure accounts for something. The fact that you're playing another month of winning baseball and having a roster deep enough to do so. The Oakland A's have won ONE postseason series under Billy Beane's watch. Most owners and GMs do care about winning, but to stay afloat they have to be solvent, and that is what sabermetrics helps a team to do more than anything. Bill James and Billy Beane have revolutionized the way many front offices do things, especially the ones that can't begin to compete with the wallets of the big-market teams. I just question what the results really are. If you're a GM, your job is to be under budget and win games. Sabermetrics does one of those things quite well, and the other...I mean, if all you care about is winning percentage in the regular season, fine. But if you're a fan of a baseball team, you want to see your team play well into October and for some fanbases, that's all that really matters. So the math-geeks can kneel at the altar of Billy Beane all they want, but it helps when you have the likes of Tim Hudson, Mark Mulder, and Barry Zito taking the ball every fifth day to stop the bleeding. The only thing that REALLY matters is starting pitching and it doesn't take VORP, WAR, or whatever boring acronym for advanced statistics you want to use to figure that out, in my opinion.

Re: Everything All The Time

The fantasy team part wasn't serious. However I wouldn't get hyped over any Liverpool game. Liverpool can play an occasional good match due to the single good and decisive player they have - Suarez, but other than that they are a middle-tier team. Had you said "United vs City" or "Arsenal vs Chelsea" I would have understood the hype. Unless you have some ties to Pool.

I don't know the details surrounding Kaka too well, but why wouldn't it be a coincidence? It's in Madrid's best interest that he recovers his form and plays at his best. That was especially true in the past. Kaka was an expensive signing and is loved by the fans, and has been given high amount of freedom in terms of the transfer windows. Madrid could have sold him in any of the transfer windows, but has given him full decision power, and so far Kaka has chosen to stay, and it looks like it won't change in this window either perhaps.

Re: Everything All The Time

Özil's playmaker spot is essentially his main competition, and Özil has overall played really well after coming to Madrid. But there's always room for more, and for rotation. Kaka has struggled to even be substituted when Özil goes off after 70ish minutes. Now we have Modric too, but I'd rather see Kaka get some time on the pitch during less intense games. Lately Özil's a beast in combination with Ronaldo. Looks like they've finally found back to last year's form. The Classico will be really interesting considering Madrid can't use several key players, not ideal.

Re: Everything All The Time

Originally Posted by 3c

Özil's playmaker spot is essentially his main competition, and Özil has overall played really well after coming to Madrid. But there's always room for more, and for rotation. Kaka has struggled to even be substituted when Özil goes off after 70ish minutes. Now we have Modric too, but I'd rather see Kaka get some time on the pitch during less intense games. Lately Özil's a beast in combination with Ronaldo. Looks like they've finally found back to last year's form. The Classico will be really interesting considering Madrid can't use several key players, not ideal.

Re: Everything All The Time

Not sure either to be honest. I suppose it gives some extra security in case e.g. Özil gets injured. Overall Modric is an inferior Özil type of player, albeit still good. When Kaka doesn't have his form in, you need playmakers. Mourinho probably noticed some minor complications last season when Özil didn't play too well for a few games in a row. If you look at the squad, you see people like Di Maria who often play, but fluctuate a lot. Sometimes he delivers superb games and passes, sometimes his passes plain suck. The two REALLY stable passing machines are Özil and Alonso. In that regard Modric is great as well. However he hasn't fully adapted to the Spanish style of play and Madrid's style yet.

Re: Everything All The Time

Originally Posted by Kaiten

Would I be wrong to say that shady billionaires from former Soviet Republics and Middle Eastern oil billionaires have major financial stakes in European Football?

It honestly depends on what country you are speaking about. I would assume that soviets naturally have a stake in clubs in the former soviet republics, but I dont much more. For the major European leagues its significantly less so, the hub of foreign investment in a football clubs in Europe is England. In England the major foreign stakeholders are actually Americans. I only know of Abramovich, Usmanov at Arsenal, and the owner of Reading who are russian/soviets etc. There is a larger Middle Eastern/Arab contingent though, with Manchester City, Leeds and Nottingham forest being owned by Gulf nationals and Fulham and Hull being owned by Egyptians (one is a Hull resident though and the other is Mohammed Al Fayed). The top league in England is about half foreign owned. PSG in Paris is also now owned by Gulf nationals.