Should ECU declare its independence?

I say get rid of BC and Miami and Wake Forest and add ECU...it would be great for the conference...all you sports fanatics with "loads of common sense" and who "know the real deal with sports" go ahead and argue....I'm just stating my opinion...

— Posted by robster

Wake Forest? Why not Florida State? We could also get rid of Georgia Tech while we're at it. Then drop down to the FCS where we could be one of the strongest conferences in football, instead of the FBS where we would be among the weakest.

Who needs all that BCS money anyway?

— Posted by Ken D.

I like that idea alot - chuck BC, Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, and keep just the regional teams in the Carolinas, VA, and MD...adding ECU. Quit the crooked BCS, play some really entertaining football against each other, the occasional BCS opponent, and participate in a 20 game playoff to determine the real champion.

— Posted by scousler

There may, however, be a flaw in your thinking. If the ACC were to part ways with those four schools, they would have an eight team league. What makes you think they would add ECU?

I doubt they would invite ECU even if they only had seven teams. I think the only chance ECU has of getting into a BCS conference is if the Big East can't get either Villanova or Notre Dame to join. Even then, I don't think ECU would be their next choice. I think UCF would be more likely, or even Navy (especially if they were to agree to take less than a full revenue share).

Personally, I think ECU made a mistake when they didn't join App State in the FCS. I think they could have been a perennial national contender at that level. Even on the off chance that they get into the Big East, they aren't going to be a contender, any more than Carolina, State, Duke and Wake are. I guess it just depends on what you want out of your athletic program.

If I had the choice I would like to have ECU in the Big East and still play a strong non- conference games. Now IF ECU can get into BCS conference will they still get to play our ACC sister schools as most ACC fans do not see ECU as a RIVAL but the schools still sale out those games and some circle the date.Why is that?

I say get rid of BC and Miami and Wake Forest and add ECU...it would be great for the conference...all you sports fanatics with "loads of common sense" and who "know the real deal with sports" go ahead and argue....I'm just stating my opinion...

— Posted by robster

Yes, BC being in the ACC makes about as much sense geographically as TCU going to the Big East. BC being in the ACC is all about money, &amp; that's all. BC used to have these great B-Ball rivalries with the Big East teams &amp; usually had decent B-Ball teams. You think BC fans are going to travel to Greensboro for the ACC tournament? Haven't seen many the past 2 years.

But triangle ACC fans don't want to think about ECU joining the ACC &amp; leveling the playing field, then they would have nothing to belittle us by on message boards &amp; in social circles. As much as I would like for this to happen for the close rivals &amp; possibly being able to go to all away games, I don't think it ever will. There are too many egos running these schools to ever consider it. Big East or SEC would be a better fit.

ECU going independent is not the way to go at this time, with BCS conferences taking over in all sports. I used to think that baseball was the last sport where the playing field was virtually equal for all schools, but since the formation of the BCS when is the last time you saw schools that used to make regular appearances in the college world series like Cal-State Fullerton, Long Beach State, Rice, &amp; Wichita State win? 7 years ago... right before the BCS began to un-level the playing field for those not in a BCS conference.

I say get rid of BC and Miami and Wake Forest and add ECU...it would be great for the conference...all you sports fanatics with "loads of common sense" and who "know the real deal with sports" go ahead and argue....I'm just stating my opinion...

— Posted by robster

Wake Forest? Why not Florida State? We could also get rid of Georgia Tech while we're at it. Then drop down to the FCS where we could be one of the strongest conferences in football, instead of the FBS where we would be among the weakest.

Who needs all that BCS money anyway?

— Posted by Ken D.

I like that idea alot - chuck BC, Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, and keep just the regional teams in the Carolinas, VA, and MD...adding ECU. Quit the crooked BCS, play some really entertaining football against each other, the occasional BCS opponent, and participate in a 20 game playoff to determine the real champion.

Too many automatic bowl tie-ins are assigned to the conferences for ECU to make the independent leap at the moment. They do not have the nationwide name recognition that schools like BYU or Notre Dame possess. Their only real option is a Big East bid, but they probably won't get that without at least another couple of very good seasons. If they were to go independent and without a breakup of the BCS and the current bowl tie-ins, they would be in the same ironic position they were before - putting up good football records against quality teams, yet failing to cash in without getting any good bowl bids.

— Posted by scousler

Maybe they need to create their own bowl, and host it whenever they have a winning record. The Colonial Bowl has a nice ring to it. :)

I say get rid of BC and Miami and Wake Forest and add ECU...it would be great for the conference...all you sports fanatics with "loads of common sense" and who "know the real deal with sports" go ahead and argue....I'm just stating my opinion...

— Posted by robster

Wake Forest? Why not Florida State? We could also get rid of Georgia Tech while we're at it. Then drop down to the FCS where we could be one of the strongest conferences in football, instead of the FBS where we would be among the weakest.

I say get rid of BC and Miami and Wake Forest and add ECU...it would be great for the conference...all you sports fanatics with &quot;loads of common sense&quot; and who &quot;know the real deal with sports&quot; go ahead and argue....I'm just stating my opinion...

Too many automatic bowl tie-ins are assigned to the conferences for ECU to make the independent leap at the moment. They do not have the nationwide name recognition that schools like BYU or Notre Dame possess. Their only real option is a Big East bid, but they probably won't get that without at least another couple of very good seasons. If they were to go independent and without a breakup of the BCS and the current bowl tie-ins, they would be in the same ironic position they were before - putting up good football records against quality teams, yet failing to cash in without getting any good bowl bids.

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

— Posted by Ken D.

$500 million???

That's a pretty killer bowl payout! ;)

— Posted by TruthBKnown Banned Again02

The standard financial abbreviation for million is MM. M represents thousand (although most people tend to use k).

— Posted by heelman73

Thanks, learn something new every day. I've seen &quot;MM&quot; used, as well as &quot;M&quot;. I always thought they both stood for &quot;million&quot;.

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

— Posted by Ken D.

$500 million???

That's a pretty killer bowl payout! ;)

— Posted by TruthBKnown Banned Again02

The standard financial abbreviation for million is MM. M represents thousand (although most people tend to use k).

— Posted by heelman73

You're right. &quot;M&quot; tends to be used more in banking circles. It's shorthand for &quot;mille&quot; or thousand, and MM equals a thousand thousand, or a million.

The point is, ECU isn't in their conference for the bowl payout. C-USA got $5.4MM from bowls last year, while the ACC's haul was $31.3MM (third highest of all conferences).

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

— Posted by Ken D.

I know but I still think we get more attention as a CUSA school than we would as an indy. I wish we could get an invite to the Big East and then join the CAA for all other sports. Other than baseball, CUSA and CAA are pretty comparable and the CAA schools are much closer to us.

I don't think BYU will do that great as an indy, even thought they call themselves "Notre Dame of the West," they do not have the pull like ND does, right know. If they were to start up a BYU network and play more games in the East to get most Mormons to watch them, they might actually become "Notre Dame of the West."

— Posted by Pirates of the East

The one advantage BYU has is ALOT of money, and a huge following, especially out west. Outside of Utah, there are alot of states with &quot;pockets&quot; of LDS communities, and they tend to have alot of political influence. The last time I was in Utah, the idea of a BYU network was being kicked around, and I think they probably will have the resources to make that happen. However, as you pointed out, they still are not Notre Dame and won't be quite the draw that the Irish are.

^^ But, could they put that slate together. They can be tough in Greenville, and most schools might view going there as not worth the risk. ECU may have to pay out more than they take in to entice schools to come. If so, have they gained anything (other than the exposure you mention). And, how long before even a higher payout fails to attract schools if ECU does manage to beat a few of them early on?

— Posted by heelman73

This is my worry. The ACC schools and SCAR play us at the beginning of the season because with a loss to us in week 1-4 means little because there is still the conference schedule to get quality W's. Those teams will not play us come week 9 and 10 because they will have no time to get their rank back up if they were to lose.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

Getting teams to play you out of conference in November, and even late October, is the challenge for any independent. I'm not sure that's just because of the difficulty of recovering from a late season loss. It's just the nature of conference scheduling.

But ECU's location, which is a disadvantage in C-USA, could work in their favor as an independent located pretty close to the SEC, ACC, Big East, MAC and Sunbelt. They already have long-standing rivalries with both West Virginia and Virginia Tech. I believe they could firm up home and home arrangements every year with both State and Carolina. It's not unreasonable to think they could alternate between Wake and Duke.

I think they could even look to BYU as an intersectional battle of independents, and could also schedule both Army and Navy with some frequency. Marshall and Southern Miss are as close as they come to conference rivals for ECU. And as an independent, I believe ECU would schedule a game against an FCS opponent, which they don't do now. I think scheduling would take a lot more work as an independent, but I think it could be done.

For them it would be a win win....but who will take them......man are they going to get slobberknocked by Little Carolina on 9/3

— Posted by sportznut628

Ha. This team is well coached. They have recruited very well, and the defense is much improved. I would bet that ECU will surprise some teams again this new season. They may surprise UNC. They would have won several games more last season with a more solid D. Go back and check the half-times scores last season.

ECU should try hard to get into the Big East Conference. It would solve their problem.

How's that saying &quot;Been there done that&quot; Where would ECU get 12 schools to play us for 10 years or more if those in the state will not sign a home &amp; home slate to play only once every 3 years. Sorry but as a fan I can only hope ECU will get to go to the Big East or just start running the table in C-USA Someday ECU will get the call but let's not go the Indendent route yet

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

— Posted by Ken D.

$500 million???

That's a pretty killer bowl payout! ;)

— Posted by TruthBKnown Banned Again02

The standard financial abbreviation for million is MM. M represents thousand (although most people tend to use k).

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

Didn't they go that route at some point before joining CUSA? Or, is my memory failing me again?

— Posted by heelman73

The Pirates were independent from 1976 until they joined C-USA in 1997. The previous year, they were 8-3, with wins over South Carolina, Miami and NC State but were not invited to a bowl. Even in 1983, when they were also 8-3, losing by a combined 13 points to Florida State, Florida and Miami, and were ranked #20, they did not go to a bowl. I expect that had a lot to do with their decision to join a conference that had contractual bowl tie-ins.

But what does that say about their attractiveness to a conference? Pirate fans talk about their dedicated fan base as a selling point for why a conference should want them. But repeatedly, bowls whose motivation is bringing fans to their city, have considered them an unattractive choice. Conferences notice things like that.

If ECU were to be independent again, why would it be different now? And if it wouldn't be different, would independence be suicidal?

— Posted by Ken D.

Sounds like they should stick with C-USA and be grateful until something better comes along.

If you look at history then ECU has as about as much of a chance of winning a national championship game as eith State of Carolina even though they are not in the BCS. &quot;Little Carolina&quot;, now that is funny. I sure hope that the writer was not saying UNC is the BIG Carolina.

^^ But, could they put that slate together. They can be tough in Greenville, and most schools might view going there as not worth the risk. ECU may have to pay out more than they take in to entice schools to come. If so, have they gained anything (other than the exposure you mention). And, how long before even a higher payout fails to attract schools if ECU does manage to beat a few of them early on?

— Posted by heelman73

This is my worry. The ACC schools and SCAR play us at the beginning of the season because with a loss to us in week 1-4 means little because there is still the conference schedule to get quality W's. Those teams will not play us come week 9 and 10 because they will have no time to get their rank back up if they were to lose.

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

— Posted by Ken D.

I know but I still think we get more attention as a CUSA school than we would as an indy. I wish we could get an invite to the Big East and then join the CAA for all other sports. Other than baseball, CUSA and CAA are pretty comparable and the CAA schools are much closer to us.

I don't think BYU will do that great as an indy, even thought they call themselves &quot;Notre Dame of the West,&quot; they do not have the pull like ND does, right know. If they were to start up a BYU network and play more games in the East to get most Mormons to watch them, they might actually become &quot;Notre Dame of the West.&quot;

^^ But, could they put that slate together. They can be tough in Greenville, and most schools might view going there as not worth the risk. ECU may have to pay out more than they take in to entice schools to come. If so, have they gained anything (other than the exposure you mention). And, how long before even a higher payout fails to attract schools if ECU does manage to beat a few of them early on?

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

— Posted by Pirates of the East

If my math is right, last year ECU's payout from C-USA for bowl revenue was about $500M. From that, they had to deduct their travel expenses, which means they netted very little, if anything. Central Florida went to Memphis and ECU went to Washington. I don't see one of those trips as all that much better than the other.

It will be interesting to see how BYU does as an independent. If it pays off for them, more schools may try it (although there's no guarantee independence works the same for everybody).

Didn't they go that route at some point before joining CUSA? Or, is my memory failing me again?

— Posted by heelman73

The Pirates were independent from 1976 until they joined C-USA in 1997. The previous year, they were 8-3, with wins over South Carolina, Miami and NC State but were not invited to a bowl. Even in 1983, when they were also 8-3, losing by a combined 13 points to Florida State, Florida and Miami, and were ranked #20, they did not go to a bowl. I expect that had a lot to do with their decision to join a conference that had contractual bowl tie-ins.

But what does that say about their attractiveness to a conference? Pirate fans talk about their dedicated fan base as a selling point for why a conference should want them. But repeatedly, bowls whose motivation is bringing fans to their city, have considered them an unattractive choice. Conferences notice things like that.

If ECU were to be independent again, why would it be different now? And if it wouldn't be different, would independence be suicidal?

— Posted by Ken D.

Thanks. Good to know my memory is not completely shot.

I don't think it would be any different now, and independence probably would be suicidal. They're not Notre Dame and just do not have the reputation to be able to pull in attractive bowl bids with 8-4, 9-3 records (although I do think that with the plethora of available bowl slots, they could pull in some of the lower ones - the kind you lose money by attending). I think their best bet is holding on and hoping for an invitation to a more attractive conference at some point.

— Posted by heelman73

You're right about the plethora of bowl spots. There aren't a lot of eligible teams getting left out these days. But a lot of the ones who go lose money as you point out. Their motivation for accepting those bids is the TV exposure and the extra practice time bowl teams are allowed.

But what if ECU could put together an attractive slate of regional opponents that would boost their regular season attendance by 50,000 or so? That would require another stadium expansion probably, but it would yield more money than a bowl would.

NO! Unless your Notre Dame and can force the BCS to give you an automatic bid if you finish in the top 10 (i think?), you will not have success as an indy. I would rather go 8-4 and be CUSA champs playing in the Liberty bowl, then have 10 wins and end up in the Armed Forces bowl like BYU will.

Didn't they go that route at some point before joining CUSA? Or, is my memory failing me again?

— Posted by heelman73

The Pirates were independent from 1976 until they joined C-USA in 1997. The previous year, they were 8-3, with wins over South Carolina, Miami and NC State but were not invited to a bowl. Even in 1983, when they were also 8-3, losing by a combined 13 points to Florida State, Florida and Miami, and were ranked #20, they did not go to a bowl. I expect that had a lot to do with their decision to join a conference that had contractual bowl tie-ins.

But what does that say about their attractiveness to a conference? Pirate fans talk about their dedicated fan base as a selling point for why a conference should want them. But repeatedly, bowls whose motivation is bringing fans to their city, have considered them an unattractive choice. Conferences notice things like that.

If ECU were to be independent again, why would it be different now? And if it wouldn't be different, would independence be suicidal?

— Posted by Ken D.

Thanks. Good to know my memory is not completely shot.

I don't think it would be any different now, and independence probably would be suicidal. They're not Notre Dame and just do not have the reputation to be able to pull in attractive bowl bids with 8-4, 9-3 records (although I do think that with the plethora of available bowl slots, they could pull in some of the lower ones - the kind you lose money by attending). I think their best bet is holding on and hoping for an invitation to a more attractive conference at some point.

Didn't they go that route at some point before joining CUSA? Or, is my memory failing me again?

— Posted by heelman73

The Pirates were independent from 1976 until they joined C-USA in 1997. The previous year, they were 8-3, with wins over South Carolina, Miami and NC State but were not invited to a bowl. Even in 1983, when they were also 8-3, losing by a combined 13 points to Florida State, Florida and Miami, and were ranked #20, they did not go to a bowl. I expect that had a lot to do with their decision to join a conference that had contractual bowl tie-ins.

But what does that say about their attractiveness to a conference? Pirate fans talk about their dedicated fan base as a selling point for why a conference should want them. But repeatedly, bowls whose motivation is bringing fans to their city, have considered them an unattractive choice. Conferences notice things like that.

If ECU were to be independent again, why would it be different now? And if it wouldn't be different, would independence be suicidal?

I guess in football only it may make sense. They need C-USA or back to CAA for scheduling the other sports. They are good at setting up quality non-conf games; the league is so weak though. It is tough to be independent. May be easier to wait for the next conference re-alignment and pray someone needs one more team.

Time seems to be running out on ECU's chances to join a BCS conference. Is it time they start to consider whether membership in C-USA is really worth it? I'd like to know how much money they actually get from the conference from their share of TV and bowl revenues. Then I'd like to know how much they have to spend for all their sports teams - not just football - to travel to conference games.

I am quite willing to concede that the chances of ECU winning a NT in football are minuscule, whether they are in a conference or not. So if the Pirates don't want to compete for one at the FCS level, why not play football as an independent, and join a more geographically suitable conference for other sports? There are plenty of potential opponents closer than most C-USA schools that would be attractive home and home football partners.