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I like biner brakes, too, but I think I may be about the only person left who still carries ovals.

Closest rappel f/u: Sporty and I were beating a hasty retreat from the E. Direct on the N. Face of Edith Cavell amidst a real artillery barrage of rock fall. One of the scaredest I've been, and he still says the same, even after three tours in Iraq in the seals and catching an AK round in the chest (gotta love ceramic armor). High stress situation, about 600' up the face, and as he leans back to rap I look down and realize only one rope is through his ATC. Fortunately I grabbed him before he went to the glacier and took the ropes with him.

Even tho I am climber from back in the early 1980's, for that reason alone I dislike the ATC and still use a Fig 8 to rap. Pretty hard to screw up rigging a Fig 8 wrong when rapping. I have nearly done the same thing with the ATC was well at times.

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Michael Urban, RN

DLottmann

Even tho I am climber from back in the early 1980's, for that reason alone I dislike the ATC and still use a Fig 8 to rap. Pretty hard to screw up rigging a Fig 8 wrong when rapping. I have nearly done the same thing with the ATC was well at times.

I think every time I rig a rappel I think about how close death is and that helps me double check shit before I lean back... thatís all it takes, regardless of preferred method...

I like biner brakes, too, but I think I may be about the only person left who still carries ovals.

Closest rappel f/u: Sporty and I were beating a hasty retreat from the E. Direct on the N. Face of Edith Cavell amidst a real artillery barrage of rock fall. One of the scaredest I've been, and he still says the same, even after three tours in Iraq in the seals and catching an AK round in the chest (gotta love ceramic armor). High stress situation, about 600' up the face, and as he leans back to rap I look down and realize only one rope is through his ATC. Fortunately I grabbed him before he went to the glacier and took the ropes with him.

Ovals !! Tough to find a good oval now. I use my olr Big Easy's.. not bad. Petzl Sprits are decent, good volume and tough to kill.

My USMC bud thinks i should teach... no way i'm moving to Carolina and for SURE not 29 palms

Even tho I am climber from back in the early 1980's, for that reason alone I dislike the ATC and still use a Fig 8 to rap. Pretty hard to screw up rigging a Fig 8 wrong when rapping.

Me either, and when I take my figure eight, as a different device, I know that I am in danger and take extra care. When I am tired, I back up the figure eight with a shunt, above it, so the rope is not twisted (rope must be the same diameter). Retreat with a 8 can be very fast.

Even tho I am climber from back in the early 1980's, for that reason alone I dislike the ATC and still use a Fig 8 to rap. Pretty hard to screw up rigging a Fig 8 wrong when rapping. I have nearly done the same thing with the ATC was well at times.

I think every time I rig a rappel I think about how close death is and that helps me double check shit before I lean back... thatís all it takes, regardless of preferred method...

Who gets to untangle those ropes after you rap with that figure-8?

No one. My Mammut never seems to tangle from my Fig 8 for whatever reason. Maybe I am just 'lucky' - I dunno.

I just read about that incident incloving a ATC where someone put the 'keeper cord' in their locker but forgot to put both strands of rope into the locker as well!'While I check my rig 3-4x to make sure all is well before I rap with my Fig 8 - it's either 'threaded correctly or it's not.' Easy to see by looking. To me it's a PITA poking 2 strands of my rope thru a ATC - esp when ice climbing and the rope is as stiff as hell!

I really don't see the ATC as being any kind of an issue, at least not for me. I also pretty much always extend mr belay device with a regular sling when rappelling for more control. In addition I use a BD Guide ATC that I can use in Self Locking mode to bring up my partner. It has a number of other uses as well.

A figure of 8 weighs what, 4 times as much as an ATC? And you still have to bring an ATC or equivalent to belay, unless of course you use a Munter. But then you could use a Munter for that as well!

If one full weighs the rap lines before disassembling the anchor, then I contend any device should work fine. Champ is right though; one can rap faster with an Eight (perhaps essential in some cases) but I have yet to meet anyone who can do that without twisting the s#@t out of the rope.

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"You have to decide to do a flag, where you can broke your vertebrae or a barn door depending of your pro" - the poster formerly known as Champ

I stopped using an 8 just after buying it and never went back... twisty, twisty and just another chunk of gear.

It twist when the rope is twist under the figure eight. If you feed the figure 8 untwisted, it wont twisted after. A little bit harder to control before, but it is when you throw the rope that the problem arise. If the rope are well a part, it is easy to rap with no twisted in the rope, if the rope is throw togheter, it is harder to separate the two rope

I stopped using an 8 just after buying it and never went back... twisty, twisty and just another chunk of gear.

I bought one as well and don't think I ever used it. It's still sitting in the bottom of a gear bin somewhere in my basement along with a gi-gi, a pile of various ascenders, pulleys, snow pickets, and other crap I never needed.

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Have a quiche, now, or maybe a tort. You deserve it!-bristolpipe

I like to keep things simple, even if it's faaaken painful and miserable.-Stoney Middleton

This is grain, which any fool can eat, but for which the Lord intended a more divine means of consumption.-Friar Tuck

DLottmann

I stopped using an 8 just after buying it and never went back... twisty, twisty and just another chunk of gear.

This.

There's a reason they sell 100 ATC's to every figure-8.

Only makes sense in some rescue, caving, and tactical reasons. We used them in the Marines for high speed rappelling on Static ropes as they don't heat up us much as ATC's... important for SWAT teams and Military... there is no reason for a recreational climber to be rapping that fast... and carrying an extra piece of gear with such limited function...