Don't hate on the kid I had a 2.5 gpa but score a 27 on the ACTs. High school success has nothing to do with standardized testing scores, I could take the shit out of test but otherwise didn't give a shit about school.

I had a 2.3 GPA and I think a 33 on the ACT (I had a 28 in 8th grade.) I had admissions from both schools (only Oakland and UM) I applied to call me and ask me to to explain the discrepancy. It happens.

On the flip side, I like a girl for about three years straight, and she maintained a 3.8-3.9 average in your standard schedule. I appreciated how dilligent she was and appreciate nerdiness. Then we got to talking about standardized tests and she scored a whopping 22 on the ACT on her THIRD try after taking a prep class.

I lost interest.

She just graduated from MSU in "product packaging" (?) and is moving to Columbus to start her career.

... Actually MSU has the best school in the country for that field -- at least they used to. It also is a massively important field in retail. Think about the sizes and shapes of boxes from both an operational perspective (packing, shipping, storing) as well as the marketing (Displaying, easy to open, reduced shrinkage).

I know, lots of jokes about it as a career choice, but we have quite a few MSU grads in this space at my company and their contribution is meaningful.

ha, same here with the 2.5 and a 27. Our salutatorian had a 4.0 and a 22, its grade inflation, some teachers give higher grades to students they like more. It really happens a lot in smaller schools like the one I went to

it's a private school charging 20k+ a year tuition. with over 1200 kids in the high school.

"Our Academics

A typical graduating class sends 100% of its members to 100 different colleges and universities, devotes 7,000 hours to community service projects, raises $20,000 for charity and earns upwards of $9 million in scholarship awards."

plus if you knew you were getting recruited for big-time football, would you really prep that much for a great score?

Yep. My girlfriends dad went to this school back when it was a boarding school. Either way, it's a good school. I'm confused by the ignorant comments about schools value by state. Generally our education system throughout the country is suspect.

I live in Georgia (Fayette County). We have very good schools that would be competitive with just about any county in the country (I have lived in CT, MA, PA, NY, MI, AZ, and TX before GA so I have a lot of experience in this regard).

But, in general, you are right that GA does place a higher emphasis on athletics versus academics.

He knows what the teachers are teaching, but that may only count for 30-40% of what's covered in standardized tests. Plus he must have taken that test in the winter or early spring to already have that score back. Not bad for a top level prospect.

My sister was top 10 in our class and scored a 21, and I know a lot of her friends were in that same boat, too. I would say it is probably a pretty common occurence and averages out with the people who have lower GPAs, but score high.

GPA says a lot more about work ethic than it does about brains. Sure, if you're really smart you won't need to work as hard, but especially in high school, most people who want to try really hard can get As or mostly As. Similarly, a person who is very bright but doesn't care to try could very easily get bad grades despite their aptitude.

Standardized tests are different. With the exception of someone who actually studies like crazy for the ACT or someone who goes into it and truly doesn't try, the ACT/SAT do a much better job of determining how smart a student is. For college, both aptitude and work ethic are necessary, which is why they look at both. But it's not rare for a student to have a lot of one and not a lot of the other.

... grade inflation is common in some high schools. That's why we have standardized tests. On the other hand, he could be a smart kid who doesn't do so well on standardized tests. It happens. He probably should be 25 or above on the ACT with the GPA he has, but it's hard to pinpoint unless he took the ACT again. But he doesn't need to, he's eligible. And he's big.

It could also be that he just didn't study for the test. The only thing I found difficult about the ACT/SAT was the time limit. If you haven't practiced, you can easily find yourself running out of time (and thus end up with a disappointing score). If his stated GPA is correct, he only needed a 17 anyway, so he probably doesn't care.

Not being an American I am not exactly sure how it works there, but here we have more than one opportunity to write the standardized test. What I (and many of those I went to school with) did was went into the standardized test without studying/practicing because we basically treated the first sitting as a practice. Most of us did well enough in the initial siting to get into university (though all of us could have done much better given even a little effort) so we simply left it at that. None of us could be bothered to try and get a better score because that would have meant wasting time studying while we could be doing more improtant things like...you know...partying.

But seriously, it could be that he tried this the first time to simply see how he would do, knowing he could sit it again (if you can actually do that in the USA).

GPA and ACT score don't necessarily correlate. It is easy to boost your GPA by taking easy elective classes like an easy health class or music class. I don't think we should be worried about GPA and ACT. Both would have him qualified by the NCAA.

We should be concerned with that offer list. This kid must be good with offers from all of those schools.

I am concerned about his offer list. He doesn't report an offer from Michigan State, and they recruit nationally now. I'm sick of taking MSUs leftovers - if he's not good enough for Dantonio, he's not good enough for me.

We are comparing two different things. A G.P.A., can be earned through hard work, extra credit, and by taking easier classes. A standardized test score depends on several factors; ability in Math, reading, writing, and science and overall intelligence. I work as a college and career advisor in a high school. I have seen students with very similar results as this recruit. Additionally, I have seen students score in the 30s on reading and writing and score around a 15 in math, thus killing their composite. Don't judge a book by its cover.

I think he's really saying that the school quality in a place like Detroit is so bad that a student with a 4.0 might not have the knowledge base to succeed on the SAT/ACT. These tests really measure what you've already learned as opposed to your ability to learn more. A well-drilled student with a good knowledge base will almost certainly score higher than someone without exposure to a significant portion of the material.

I was one of those who killed my results with a horrible math number. Never opened a book in high school and had a less than an impressive GPA. Somehow I got myself into Michigan and ended up graduating with honors. On average, GPAs and test scores might be good indicators but there are exceptions.

It's almost the same, but instead of Tulsa, Utah and WMU you have Wake Forest, Maryland and USF. That's pretty much a wash to me. However, this year Stanford won't be as good as they were last year and you have MSU and USC (two of your hardest, might end up being your two hardest) both at home.

Unless you guys suck way more than people think, you'll make a bowl that's way over your head and get smoked by someone who just missed a BCS game. WolvinLA Prediction 2000.

Haha I was asking because the NCAA said ND had the hardest schedule in the country last year. On a more serious note though, ND's schedule is always supposed to be weak, Utah was a top 15 team when they played, tulsa finished the season ranked 24th, with that ND win playing a part in that of course, and western was MAC competition as expected.

I expected most of that going into the preseason last year though, I expect USF to be above average in their 2nd year though not probably not right out of the gate. Wake and Maryland look more like WMU type opponents right now mostly because I don't pay much attention to them normally.

Not really worried about MSU tbh, if they end up being the 2nd strongest team on our schedule it probably will be a weak season, I still expect UM to be higher rated at the end of the season whether is actual ranking or just record I am undecided. BC could do some things this year, and stanford still has a lot of key pieces on the team from last year.

Well, then the way they calculate that stuff needs to change. It's probably because ND didn't play any total pansies like EMU or a I-AA team, but they had very few tough opponents as well. If you compare UM's schedule, we also play MSU and Purdue, and we play you (like you play us). We play OSU, which is comparable to your USC I suppose, but we have a lot more tough teams after that than ND does. Nebraska and Iowa are both tough teams and Illinois and Northwestern are tougher than Maryland and BC, likely. SDSU is tough, probably on par with Air Force. We have WMU and EMU, but those aren't that much easier than your easiest. Also, this is one of our easiest schedules in a while because we miss PSU and Wisconsin, two of the best teams in the league.

As you can see I am relatively new here, but I am wondering why an Irish fan would be so active on a Michigan website. I have no problem with it, I actually appreciate you different point of view, I'm just wondering why you do it?

I would say that Irish is the most level-headed ND fan I've ever seen on any site. Either that or just has sense enough to temper himself for this board. Either way, I give him credit. I don't think I could handle it as well if I went over there. I'd be banned well before the season started.

His ACT score is right around the state average, and Georgia doesn't make everyone take the ACT. If they did, he'd likely be above average. Even if this test was perfectly indicative of his true testing abilities (about which, ha!), that makes him a C+/B- test taker. A great attendance record and work ethic should put him solidly in the 3-point-somethings. With teachers hounding star athletes to make sure they're eligible and coaches promising to run them into the ground if they slip up, the GPAs often look strangely high. Jordan's scenario isn't really that weird, especially if he had a poor testing day.

Hey Irish, just out of curiosity what site do you look at the most for your ND recruiting info? I can never seem to find any good stuff out there. I know we are spoiled to have Tom, Magnus, Tim, JC3, etc. But i am just genuinely interested.

I mostly just have friends now that I listen to, rivals, irishsportsdaily, scout, blue and gold illustrated is where most of it comes from but there are people higher up the food chain with more informed opinions on those boards.

If you just want trickled down information, domerdomain and goldhelmet are 2 of the more reliable ones, though the first can get pretty headcase-y at times like NDnation. No matter what you read though, the guys who talk the most normally know the least

this year and holds a 3.85 GPA in all advanced classes. Studies her brains out and has the highest compliments as a student in each of her classes from teachers. She hit a 20 on the ACT on her first try. She recently admitted to me that she hates reading as a whole because she automatically re-reads everything to make sure she isn't missing or misunderstanding something. She said she needs to teach herself to "skim read" so that she gets the necessary nuggets out of it, and thus will do better on the timed testing of the Standardized tests.

My son will be in HS next year and will struggle to make average grades in everything but music, where he excels. He can recite the Guiness Book of World records for you, but cannot comprehend anything out of a chapter by chapter book. My son can memorize music by ear and plays the saxophone like nobody's business. He will have to absolutely bust his butt academically, but it wouldn't surprise me to find him in the MMB one day.

Brains - everyone has one and they all work a little differently for each person.

Some people aren't great test takers. His high GPA combined with his decent but not great test score indicates an easy schedule, some sort of favorable treatment, or hard work. I think it is unfair for any of us who lack personal knowledge of his situation to presume it is anything other than hard work.

I congratulate Jordan on his fantastic GPA. To his credit, he is clearly maintaining his focus and seems intrinsically motivated to work hard and do better than the bare minimum to be eligible.

Working hard is what will get him through tough spots in his life, not sitting around and saying, "I smoked weed and drank all through school, but I killed it on the ACTs."

Most non-scholarship athletes who attend U of M killed it on the ACT. I would wager to say that the once your population is comprised on all people of some intellect, the hard workers begin to rise to the top. If he's a hard worker, we want him.