Twin Yanmar 8LV with Hamilton 241 pumps in a 32 foot hull. The engines are only 350 HP. They could have put 370's in the boat but maybe to keep it on budget they did not. Now let's hope they find a driver to run it. When Roy retired they lost a great river guy. The last few years the new drivers just wake the hell out of everyone. Had to have a chat with a lady driver about 4 years ago.

Spoke with two fellas from Forest Service at Swallows Nest yesterday afternoon while loading it in the trailer. They were good guys and mentioned they were happy Bentz got the bid to build it. I for one have changed my negative thoughtson this as maybe someday this boat will save someone on the rivers life or provide aide when needed.

idahoracer146 wrote:Spoke with two fellas from Forest Service at Swallows Nest yesterday afternoon while loading it in the trailer. They were good guys and mentioned they were happy Bentz got the bid to build it. I for one have changed my negative thoughtson this as maybe someday this boat will save someone on the rivers life or provide aide when needed.

That's it. They bitch about not enough man power,and money......"oohhh we can't do our jobs". But by god, they need a new 295k jetboat to replace a fully functional one. What a bunch of horse shit. The forest circus is a poorly run agency full egotistical self absorbed hypocrites. I just wrote a very large check to the irs, and if I had my way, they would not get a dime. The people on the river that will save lives and boaters are the people who use the river like most on this forum. Not the people who think they can run it like some kind of pay-to-camp picnic area. What a f-in waste of your and my tax dallar.

There was no need for that boat. I second the opinion the people that potentially save lives and help others in the hells canyon cooridor are other users, not the forest service.

That money could have been 1/3 the money they claim to have needed for the "problems/fixes/repairs" needed to hells canyon facilities. None of which I use or have used.

I could count on one hand how many times I've seen the forest service up there. The one time I did remember seeing their 22' custom weld was in the wild section with 2 guys and 2 women on board. It looked obvious they were up there for a joy ride not business.

They weren't up there when a friend's steering went out and needed a tow. They weren't there when another friend's pump gave out and needed repair. They weren't there when someone smashed a rock and needed assistance because their boat was dead in the water. They weren't there when someone needed a satellite phone when some rafters had one of the members of their party die. Please please tell me when they are utilized?

I have way less hours on that river than most but in all these cases the forest service was no where to be found.

Not to mention they wanted more feet on the ground. You know employing more people to do the work that's already not been done. When a couple of people that moved on used to do that work.

Ive said it before, Ill say it again. This boat build was in the works when the FS was having all the public meetings in various locations re: the new proposed $10 per person fee. All they could talk about was having no money, no budget, no way to accomplish anything in the canyon, claimed they didn't have money for personnel to run the boats they already had. Not one word was said about their new boat build. As far as im concerned, they lied to every one of us, right to our faces. The times of governmental agencies running rampant with no consequences has got to end.

Not that I'm defending the FS but you guys need to learn where this money came from right or wrong. We have the forest service as an entity. Then we have the wallowa whitman forest service. Inside the wallowa whitman forest service we have the HCNRA.

When boat A was built in whatever year you want to come up with. Boat A has a shelf life in the eyes of our government.When boat A is complete, there is a pot of money that is built up over "x" amount of years. GENERALLY speaking this pot of money is from the "general fund" of the forest service.

Let's fast forward 5/10/15 years after boat A has been deemed "past it's serviceable time"Boat B has been building it's pot of money over this time that is coming from the forest service general fund.Boat B has absolutely NOTHING to do with the fact that HCNRA is under funded or that wallowa whitman bringing up this 10$ user fee had anything to do with this boat. They were going to get this boat whether or not they got a fee of 0$ or 500$ a person. They are not connected at all. Our government allows certain money to be used in certain places.

We can argue that this is a giant waste of money and the FS couldn't manage to get laid in a whore house let alone manage the HCNRA, but the boat was going to be built for them regardless of the fee use and regardless if they are crying for more money in the corridor.

Bla Bla Bla... Boat A, B cor D, wtf, it dosent matter. All those agencies are funded by taxpayer dollars one way or another. "shelf life" thats a crock of shit too. If they are worried about that then why not have the motors/pumps rebuilt or replaced like 90 percent of us on this forum would do!! They are just wasting our money and enjoying every minute of it.

Darn pretty boat but I have to agree with Cromdog some here. If you are a good planner in your business don't you eventually plan for equipment replacement and don't you fund that when you set you 1, 5, and 10 year capital planning budget. Equipment depreciation being a part of it. I know we do and set prices accordingly to fund equipment needs, business expansion etc. You can say what you want about the FS and you will get very little argument from me but this boat has been around in the hells canyon area since I first started running the river in 1992, 25yrs. At some point the cost of maintenance will outweigh the cost of replacement.

Oak1, not everyone in the forest service is how you describe, my father worked damn hard scaling logs working side by side with loggers and sawmill operators day in and day out for 35 years and I am damn proud of him in his hard work ethic, not getting paid a lot of money, putting a roof over our heads and putting myself and brother through college. Say what you want about the government and the forest service over all but there are hard working quality people out there in the forest service just doing their job, my dad being one of them and they have had to listen to ignorant people like you their entire lives having to bite their lips because of the rural land use communities we live in and people like you!

The way I look at it at this point is...look how many people it helped out.

Bentz crewyanmar crewhamiltoneveryone else on down to who cut the aluminum to who shipped it over to them. These guys got a paycheck to provide for their families out of this boat. Yeah it doesn't look good to all of us seeing it out on the river with the way the river corridor looks but I'm glad so hard working Americans got some of the kick back from it

Sounds to me like if you are planned out 5/10/15 years to replace equipment that is going to wear out, then you are doing a good job of budgeting. If that is the case, how come they haven't budgeted for ongoing maintenance items? Things like the water system and painting at the Pittsburgh Admin site, or the water system at the campground, or toilet paper in the restroom? I could go on and on. Then at the public meetings on the $10 user fee in Joseph on thing they kept harping on was they wanted to see more joint volunteer efforts in the canyon, but no one will return emails or phone call and when you do finally get ahold of someone they say they don't need help with anythiing? I have tried to extend the olive branch and work with the FS on a couple things, to no avail. Fact of the matter is they have a terrible public image right now and seem to be determined to have it stay that way. The whole thing is VERY frustrating to say the least.

desperado wrote:Oak1, not everyone in the forest service is how you describe, my father worked damn hard scaling logs working side by side with loggers and sawmill operators day in and day out for 35 years and I am damn proud of him in his hard work ethic, not getting paid a lot of money, putting a roof over our heads and putting myself and brother through college. Say what you want about the government and the forest service over all but there are hard working quality people out there in the forest service just doing their job, my dad being one of them and they have had to listen to ignorant people like you their entire lives having to bite their lips because of the rural land use communities we live in and people like you!

You right Desperado. I'm being to general in the use of my description of forest service personnel. I'll sharpen the point a little. My verbal description should be taken only to mean the ones making the policy decisions in Hells Canyon, The Umitilla forest, the crimes against recreational miners in Idaho,...ect. The forest service isn't what it was 20 years ago. I am sure there are a lot of retired UDFS employees just shaking their heads at the state of the organization now. It has become a money hungry tool swung by the liberal tree huggers who have some how stolen their ear. The forest service agenda is nothing like it used to be.

cromedogg33 wrote:The way I look at it at this point is...look how many people it helped out.

Bentz crewyanmar crewhamiltoneveryone else on down to who cut the aluminum to who shipped it over to them. These guys got a paycheck to provide for their families out of this boat. Yeah it doesn't look good to all of us seeing it out on the river with the way the river corridor looks but I'm glad so hard working Americans got some of the kick back from it

I would have gone with this except they stood in front of all of us and said they were not building a new boat, and please give us some money because we can't even afford to do simple maintenance at the one campground in the canyon. That was a line in the sand.

You must still not be understanding the people who stood in front of you didn't put the boat order in. The boat being built literally had 0 effect on them asking for the 10$ fee. It's not like they would have had the money to spend in the canyon if they didn't have the boat. That money would have been used elsewhere.