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Author
Topic: Confused? (Read 23823 times)

What is the deal with unprotected insertive oral with a prostitute? I have been on this site before and had one mind set that I wouldn't be infected in this manner and then you have all the others including the CDC claiming that studies have been done to prove that oral sex is still a risk. The main study I'm referring to is from a conference 1/30-2/2 2000, between the CDC and the Univ. of Calif. San Diego. I understand you can contract other STDs through this but is it really necessary to test for hiv if this is the only exposure? It lasted for about 2 min. and the only visible fluid was saliva, but isn't it possible blood could enter the opening if present. By the way the study was named the Options Project.

Having someone perform oral on you is one of the most common sexual acts. In the entire 25 years + history of the epidemic there's never been a single documented case of transmission in this manner.

I feel I'm on safe ground when I say you aren't going to make history by becoming the first. As you have noted, other STDs can be transmitted orally. So if you're sexually active it's a good idea to regularly have a full STD panel done. At least annually and every six months is even better.

As far as getting a blowjob, you don't have to worry about it in relation to HIV. Period.

Thank you Andy for your quick response. I won't get into all the what-ifs since I understand there is nothing that will change the outcome (blood, cuts, etc.) right? Also what is the deal with that study I quoted from the CDC, did anyone get a chance to see it?

In regards to another incident (deep kissing/ getting oral) would anyone consider a swollen parotid gland (1 year now) and recurring welt/acne like spots, and dark spots under skin on arms in any way related to hiv? I have been told it's Dermatitis, Folliculitis, and the third Derm. said he really didn't know since it spreads itself to other skin it touches. If not related to hiv, if anyone has any info as to waht it could be I would really appreciate it. I'm giving up on the doctors since I get different answers. By the way the arms problem has been ongoing for over a year now. When I google search Folliculitis or swollen parotid gland of course hiv comes up as a possible cause. Is this how it is for everything or just what's wrong with me. I did test at 88 days for these incidents and was told it was negative (didn't actually see the paper). Is that good? Or should I have looked at it, I think they shred the results when done.

Ghost, simply because you haven't had a proper diagnosis yet of your symptoms does not by default mean HIV is the issue. From what you have reported you didn't do anything which put you at risk for HIV.

Pursue the matter further with your doctor(s) to get an explanation. Happily this is not an HIV situation.

1. What about the CDC study? What are they saying by referring to oral as a low risk and that there have been confirmed cases?

2. What is the basis for the decision of insertive oral being no risk? Is this because everyone has done more then that alone, or are there just not enough cases to say it is a risk. I'm just a little confused on how they figure this out. I'm sure there are people out there who claim they have been infected in this manner. Are they just discredited. If so do you know why?

3. What does Jonathan mean by receiving(insertive) oral is a slight risk in his response to someone on 6/30/06. Sorry but I don't remember the title of the thread.

4. How do insertive oral and deep kissing differ or are they pretty much considerd the same? Is there any difference since the penis hole is a direct entry into the body? I understand the mouth is safer because of saliva, is this correct?

Just read your link Rod, its great info. Do you know if when they say oral does that mean both involved? If so do you suggest being tested for all of them. I thought it was just Clam., Syph., Herpes, and Gonn.

One thing I didn't mention is my wife and kids. I am so scared I really screwed up and have no idea what to do. After I get the std panel results is it at all necessary to test for hiv, or am I safe to resume relations with my wife? Should I even be kissing her right now not knowing about the other stds, could they be transmited that way at all? Thanks again.

Also if anyone could respond to the last few posts I would appreciate it. I know everyone is probably sleeping now. I'm working so I have to be up.

The main STIs you need to worry about with oral sex are syphilis, herpes and gonorrhea, but unless you are the one who has been performing the oral, then you don't need to worry about kissing your wife where these STIs are concerned. Kissing is NOT a risk for hiv infection as saliva is not infectious.

There have been long-term studies of couples where one is positive and one is negative. In the couples who used condoms for anal or vaginal intercourse, but no barrier for oral activities, not one of the negative partners became infected with hiv. Not one. This shows us two things. One, condoms are very effective for the prevention of hiv transmission. Two, oral sex is much lower risk than previously believed. We now have the evidence that oral sex is a very low risk activity where hiv transmission is concerned.

The only oral sex that carries even a remote risk of hiv infection is GIVING blowjobs. Getting a blowjob and going down on a woman are not risks for hiv infection.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Thank you very much Ann. I just wanted to be sure what to test for when I go. Do you think 10 days is too early? I think I already know the answer to this but would having 2 small genital warts and a herpes infection (not present at the time of incident) change anything? And even though this is only theoretical ( for hiv) is testing even waranted to assure the safety of my wife?

If you're asking if the warts or herpes change anything about getting a blowjob not being a risk, then no, it changes nothing. Getting a blowjob is not a risk for hiv infection, period. No ands, iffs or buts about it.

As long as you have not been having unprotected anal or vaginal intercourse with anyone other than you wife (who I presume is confirmed hiv negative) or sharing drug injecting equipment with anyone, you do not need hiv testing.

Syphilis shares a three month window period with hiv, but if you do indeed have a syphilis infection, it would likely be picked up (via blood test) before the three months is over. (similar to how hiv normally shows up within six weeks)

The other STIs can be tested for within 10-14 days - or earlier if symptoms such as unusual penile discharge occur.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Good news is that my wife has been my only partner other than this occasion. However, she doesn't know about this and we have never used condoms in the 10 years we've been together. I guess I'm screwed because I'll have no way to explain why I need to wear one. Atleast she doesn't like giving oral so I don't have to worry about that.

Are there any signs I can watch for for syphillis or any others that usually show up? It's been 8 days and the only thing I've noticed is a nickel sized red spot on side of my stomach that seems to be growing, and my folliculitis or whatever it is has seem to broke out again. And I have a cold sore (herpes) blister coming on my lip. Is that normal since I had no contact there? Maybe just stress?

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Please don't take this the wrong way, as I do accept the answers that I have been given. BUT, what happens to the people who claim they were infected through getting oral or deep kissing? Are they just put off as liars, and considered they had other ways of exposure? If it's considered theoretical, then why if someone claims to be infected in that way are they not believed and discredited?

Logged

411

I suspect from the tone of your musings that you will test regards of the offerings you've received, at which point you will breathe a collective sigh of relief for a few days then wonder about late seroconversion, slow to produce antibodies, etc.

Regardless, you'll continue to collect negative tests and your questions will remain unanswered as they fall into the realm of unsubstantiated urban myth given that undeniable fact that HIV is not infectious in saliva. I'm at a bit of a loss on how to dispel your misgivings on this insertive oral deep kissing issue other to say that after many years of experience I have never seen enough convincing information on the matter to sway my position.

The matter boils down to whether you are going to test or not, the facts clearly support there is no need but if it helps you let go of your doubts then collect that inevitable negative and move along.

You aren't the first to question these feelings, fortunately that's all they are.

Liars? No Missinformed? Yes. Many years of study proves you do not get HIV from deep kissing or receiving a blowjob. For everyone that makes the claim, they only did deep kissing and received a blowjob usually when questioned intensively always say, "Oh I forgot about doing that." If it were possible to contract HIV in that manner, how many millions of people would be infected?

And let's not forget all the sex that happens when people are absolutely out of their heads on drink and or drugs. They might remember the blowjob they gave friday night, but not have a clue about the unprotected intercourse they had on saturday night.

By the way, I've never heard of anyone claim to have been infected with hiv through GETTING a blowjob. SUCKING, yes. BEING sucked, no. You won't be the first.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I completely understand what you are saying but what I'm really asking is are there people who claim to be infected in this manner only and test positive, but there exposure story is not believed? I understand it is only a theoretical risk, and that is is possible but not likely, right?

As the cdc quotes on their site getting oral is theoretical if the person has open sores, bleeding gums, etc. in the mouth. Why do they mention nothing about saliva in that case?

Just for clarification, is the urethra a direct entry point into the body? And oral is no risk because saliva isn't infectious? So if blood got in there as the cdc claims would be a theoretical risk, why isn't it?

Lastly, to be totally honest, I believe most of my worries come from the fear not being around to see my kida grow up, losing my wife, guilt, and total disgust for myself in letting this happen.

If someone cut their arm open in front of you and rubbed the head of your penis into their cut, you might have to worry about hiv. Forget all this blood in the mouth stuff - unless you are in the habit of punching a person in the mouth before they give you head, you're worrying over nothing.

One more time... Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection. Not a single person have become infected this way in over 25 years of this pandemic and you will NOT be the first.

If you cannot let go of this - or your feelings of guilt - then maybe you want to consider seeing a counselor.

You didn't have a risk and there's nothing more we can do for you here.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Why does the cdc state it is a teoretical risk if you come in contact with bleeding gums or open sores. I'm really sorry for all the questions, but if they are supposed to be the ones set the guidelines, etc. why do you state here that it would have to be a mouthful of blood?

Do you understand what "theoretical" means? It's never been documented to have transmitted HIV. So in the 25+ years it has not happened. If you can't get over this you may need to seek out a mental health professional to help you deal with this no risk issue.

I do understand what you are saying but when it comes to how they are wording it in their studies I have read it doesn't make the same sense.

1. Understood what theoretical means.

2. No risk if it's saliva only kiss or oral.

3. But why do they say it could happen if you are exposed to blood, sores, etc?

4. Maybe nobody has been in that situation by itself, maybe they figured it occured another way.

5. I'm just confused why you state it's a no risk act because it seems like it possibly could be if the right conditions are met, and how was it figured that it would have to be a large amount of blood?

Seek the help you need. We've given you the facts, that's all we can do here. No one is stopping you from getting tested. If you want to test over a non risk issue that is totally up to you. Just please don't come back here playing the anxiety waiting game.

411

Lastly, to be totally honest, I believe most of my worries come from the fear not being around to see my kida grow up, losing my wife, guilt, and total disgust for myself in letting this happen.

Can't help you with the major guilt trip other than to point out that it isn't really constructive in the overall context of your line of thinking and also to suggest that while you are negative and will remain so a few others are not and could "misunderstand" your comments as being veiled to imply something else.

You need to talk to somebody about these feelings. The one sided debate isn't going to change anyones informed opinion on the risk of infection from the activities you engaged in. Get a test, prove the world wrong,..... or perhaps, after receiving that inevitable negative, you'll be more inclined to accept what you've been told.

First, I apologize if I aggravated anyone. You are right, my mind will drive me to test for piece of mind. If I could just get a few answers I would stop all the posting. I'm really not trying to annoy anyone.

1. To confirm from my first exp. 2 years ago, an 89 day test is conclusive except for iv use or suppressed imune system right?

2. Would a person know if their immune sys. was compromised?

3. As far as this exposure, I probably already know the answer, but would a small cut on the tip (opening) of penis make any change in risk?

4. Lastly, not hiv related but if anyone could tell me what the feeling of having to urinate would be when you really don't have to. Does that sound like another std?

1. A test at three months is conclusive. Whether you want to consider three months to be an exact amount of days or twelve weeks or thirteen weeks is largely splitting hairs and irrelevant. A general rule of thumb is 90 days and yes, 89 days is absolutely conclusive.

2. You would know, without doubt, if your immune system were so compromised that it no longer produced antibodies in a timely fashion.

3. No, because saliva is NOT infectious. Getting a blowjob is NOT a risk for hiv infection no matter what sort of spin you want to put on it.

4. Many things can cause the problem you describe, not just STIs. Go see your doctor about it.

There's nothing more we can do for you here. Please read the posting guidelines in the Welcome thread and take note of what it says about repeatedly posting over a no-risk situation.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Sorry about the last post. I have read the posting guidelines and I will comply with the rules. I was just trying to get all my questions answered to give myself the courage to go test for piece of mind. But being told by one doc that I have eosonophillic folliculitis and that is primarily seen in hiv+ individuals, it keeps pulling me back, alonf with the swollen left side of face I have had for over a year now that no one can find a cause for. If it wasn't for these two things stuck in my head I probably wouldn't even be posting in the first place.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You are correct Ann, that is another thing I can expect. They told me there was a risk for the deep kissing with a sex worker last time, so I'm positive they will tell me this was a risk and you know how that can make people like me feel.

--No, you do not have to test out to 6 months or 12 months. That is not even remotely true. The guidelines for a definitive test is 3 months.--Remember, just because someone has an RN or an MD after their name doesn't make them knowledgable about HIV. I could name you many health care professionals that don't know the first thing about it. In fact, the local doctors in my area always send off cases to specialists because they don't know about it--the times I've gone to them for routine care, I've been the one to teach them about what my meds are for, why they should not freak out about that high bilirubin (they always want to investigate whether I have hepatitis or liver damage) and what the tests mean. That is why I go to the specialist.--The "saliva info" is well documented and scientifically accurate. Again, don't assume they know what they are talking about. You are more likely to find a knowledgable doctor if they specialize in infectious disease, have expertise in HIV related issues, etc.--Again, they do not sound knowledgable. There is plenty of evidence to support why you won't get HIV from recieving oral. Though, many times they won't say things with certainty just to be safe.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts