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Catra is a PoP figure who is also part of the Horde. How hard is this to comprehend? She's as much a Horde member as she is a PoP member.

Damn.

I spit out water when I read this. It's true though. I know I want to see some of the "Classic PoP toy female figures from Wave 1 and 2" in MOTUC more than anything, but I also understand that in MOTUC- the lines are going to blur quite a bit and I can step back and see a bigger picture here: We do indeed have a really good amount of She-Ra, her allies, and Horde- with more around the corner. Catra and Shadow Weaver to me are both PoP and Horde and this isn't really a big deal to me. I don't care what is stickered what on the package, because bio aside, that all goes in the garbage as soon as I open them up. And does it really matter "how Mattel sees them"? They're doing a good job so far... a little slow in some regards... but my toy shelf looks nicely varied. Look at your shelves. We already have Evil-Lyn, Teela, Man-At-Arms, Trap-Jaw, He-Man, Skeletor, Beast Man, etc. etc. Most of the well-known heavy hitters remaining are the well-known characters from the PoP and NA lines. No doubt Hydron, Flogg, Angella, Glimmer, Frosta, Castaspella, etc. are all coming. Sure, we'd be happier if Castaspella had come out in fall 2009 and Flogg was a first quarter 2011 release... it wouldn't feel like "we've been waiting forevvvvvver!"... but nobody said anywhere "The last PoP female to be released in 2012 is Shadow Weaver"... so who's to say Frosta or Glimmer aren't coming our way in fall or winter 2012? Who's to say the SDCC exclusive isn't a three-pack of Madame Razz, Broom & Kowl? Or that the Q4 beast slot won't be Sagitar?

I'm genuinely confused by the factions now. Are ALL Horde members going to be considered as PoP characters in the line now, because they also appeared in the PoP cartoon? Does it depend of where they first appeared (MOTU toy, PoP cartoon, etc.)?

Hordak, Leech, Hurricane Hordak. Were those PoP figures in MOTUC? How is Mattel classifying these?

If these classifications mean more or less slots for PoP a year, it is a good idea to figure out where Mattel is coming from.

Based on Mattel's statements, I assume that they consider crossover characters like Hordak MOTU characters, since his vintage figure said "Masters Of The Universe" on the card.

All Horde members will get a Horde logo, just as all Snake Men get a SM logo. Octavia is probably considered POP by Mattel, but would still get a Horde logo on the package.

I'm genuinely confused by the factions now. Are ALL Horde members going to be considered as PoP characters in the line now, because they also appeared in the PoP cartoon? Does it depend of where they first appeared (MOTU toy, PoP cartoon, etc.)?

Hordak, Leech, Hurricane Hordak. Were those PoP figures in MOTUC? How is Mattel classifying these?

If these classifications mean more or less slots for PoP a year, it is a good idea to figure out where Mattel is coming from.

Are you really genuinely confused - or just playing it up to make a point?

It seems pretty clear that first and foremost any character that had a figure done in the original vintage Masters of the Universe line is considered a vintage Masters character - and that includes the Horde characters that came out in the boys toy line originally - so Hordak, Leech, Grizzlor... those are all vintage masters characters from the Horde faction - even though they appeared on screen in the PoP cartoon.

For something like Catra - her figure was released in the She-Ra and PoP action figure line and would therefore be considered a PoP character who also was a member of the Horde faction.

Their production in the original toy form would be the first factor driving how a character is perceived. If there was no original toy - like for Shadow Weaver, then it would come down to media appearance. She was in the PoP show and not in any version of any He-Man show, so she is associated with PoP while simultaneously being a member of the Horde, like Catra.

So, basically anybody that either appeared in the vintage PoP toy line or never had a toy but only appeared in the PoP cartoon is probably going to be loosely classified as a PoP character. Some of those other characters appeared in the MOTU toy line first so, aren't labeled as PoP characters despite appearing in the cartoon.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

And - taking a phone call in the middle of typing this I missed your subsequent clarification...

It looks like people asking questions are going to have to be very specific from now on when they mention factions. Maybe we should come up with new acronyms or something... Princess of Power Female Member of the Great Rebellion. POPFMOTGR. Rolls right off the tongue.

What I will hate the most is when I finished repainting my double Star Sisters set and they announce they will release the toy colours. Lol.
I loved the repaints I saw of the sisters.

lol i know! but they would need new tooling for the toy look
Jewel Star
she IS a jewel they are not just part of her outfit
very rocky with jewel's on hips
clear very deep glitter reddish pink
no outline on star

Starla
clear red glitter legs
NO orange
sash over 1 arm
NO ****ing HAT
no red outline on arms or legs
no outline on star

Based on Mattel's statements, I assume that they consider crossover characters like Hordak MOTU characters, since his vintage figure said "Masters Of The Universe" on the card.

All Horde members will get a Horde logo, just as all Snake Men get a SM logo. Octavia is probably considered POP by Mattel, but would still get a Horde logo on the package.

That makes sense...but Octavia is even more confusing because she's based on "Octopus Woman" who was a concept for the MOTU toyline in the 80's.

Originally Posted by PantherCult

Are you really genuinely confused - or just playing it up to make a point?

I'm genuinely confused how Mattel views them as Horde or PoP...especially when Catra and Shadow Weaver are Horde members...but I don't think they're counting them as Horde?

For something like Catra - her figure was released in the She-Ra and PoP action figure line and would therefore be considered a PoP character who also was a member of the Horde faction.

The toy line Catra was NOT a Horde member though. She was an evil Sorceress that turned wildlife into her dark minions, cast spells into her crystal ball and her power came from her shield! Her mask let her turn into a cat still.

So, basically anybody that either appeared in the vintage PoP toy line or never had a toy but only appeared in the PoP cartoon is probably going to be loosely classified as a PoP character. Some of those other characters appeared in the MOTU toy line first so, aren't labeled as PoP characters despite appearing in the cartoon.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

This basically makes sense to me, but, in my opinion, it's pretty silly to classify Horde members as PoP characters because they are ALL members of a sub group: The Evil Horde. Evil Horde characters should be classified as Evil Horde characters. All other characters from PoP Filmation, toy, mini-comics, magazines, etc. make sense as "PoP" to me...but any Horde member should be classified as Horde. Evil Horde is Evil Horde, regardless of where it originated.

If new Snakemen characters were introduced on the PoP cartoon, would they be PoP too? *shrugs*

Originally Posted by Count Marzo

Who gives a **** they are all awesome no matter how you break it down! MOTU, PoP, Heroic, Evil, Horde, Snake, Galactic, Filmation, 200x, whatever!!!

Man, you've been AWFULLY grumpy lately!

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

It looks like people asking questions are going to have to be very specific from now on when they mention factions. Maybe we should come up with new acronyms or something... Princess of Power Female Member of the Great Rebellion. POPFMOTGR. Rolls right off the tongue.

I want more STWOMOTOS
Snakemen That Werent Original Members Of The Official Snakemen

OMG, you guys!

To clarify, I'm not confused how I see the affiliations, I'm confused how Mattel sees them. For me personally (in MOTUC), all Horde is Horde no matter where it came from: they are their own sub-group. Everything else from Filmation PoP and other PoP sources = PoP (to me).

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

Mattel will do whatever they want, as usual. If they want to present Scorpia as POP instead of Filmation or Horde, they will do so.

The reality is that MOTU is mainly based on the VINTAGE looks. And in the VINTAGE collection, Scorpia, Octavia, Imp, Madam Razz etc. were nowhere to be seen.

When we say "POP", I think it should refer to the 80's toyline. This would be much clearer, and less confusing.

I suspect Mattel is just trying to keep as many options open for them to present the characters. It will also allow them to shut the mouth of those "pesky fans" who constantly ask for more POP, for more Filmation, for more Horde etc.

I'll just agree with Hordaiquiri that we have to be very specific when asking about characters now, and include terms like: "characters that appeared in the PoP toy line" or "Great Rebellion members from the Filmation cartoon" "Filmation Horde members" or whatever. I don't think the short forms will stick, though.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

I guess my fear with this sort of response from Mattel, is that they're potentially going to prioritize what they deem to be "safer" characters from the world of POP, such as Filmation Sea Hawk, Scorpia etc. (not that I don't love those characters), to further/continuously delay getting to the fluffier gals from Wave 2/core female Rebellion characters.

Now, at first glance, this fear might seem to be unfounded, considering that Mattel said their goal is to get to every character from the vintage toy lines and we're getting the Star Sisters, but if we are in fact getting a healthy mix from year-to-year I guess I don't get why they're making a big deal about POP fans getting so specific then?...or even mentioning their limited slots. Who cares? That's what makes it somewhat worrisome, imo. From what I understood over the years, part of the point of MOTUC was to spread out the A-listers and have a nice mix in the line-up, but now it's kinda like "Oh. Anything goes from POP. We're lumping it all together. It all counts." Moreover, early on we were told that MOTU characters were coming out at a faster rate because of the ratio of MOTU to POP... but like... the gap is now kind of narrowing. And while it may appear that Filmation significantly effects the ratios for each brand, keep in mind that there's only 20 characters on that list of theirs.

That makes sense...but Octavia is even more confusing because she's based on "Octopus Woman" who was a concept for the MOTU toyline in the 80's.

If new Snakemen characters were introduced on the PoP cartoon, would they be PoP too? *shrugs*

Right - I do get your point.

I think the problem is that there's really two separate ways to break the characters down - the media form in which they are best known (mini-comics, vintage line, filmation MOTU, filmation PoP, NA, 200x) or the faction to which they belong (heroic warriors, evil warriors, snake men, horde, galactic protectors, space mutants...)

And obviously there's lots of crossover. I think the one thing we can be certain about is that Mattel will categorize them in whichever way supports the point they're currently trying to make

We use the POP sticker on POP figures unless the belong to another group that also has a team sticker. (so Catra or SW would get their POP sticker trumped by a Horde sticker).

We went with a POP sticker in lieu of an all new "GR sticker" to promote the brand equity of the POP logo. But we did discuss both options for how to sticker. In the end we went with a method we thought would promote the equity of the Horde and POP logos the best. It wasn't designed to confuse as much as it may have!

I guess my fear with this sort of response from Mattel, is that they're potentially going to prioritize what they deem to be "safer" characters from the world of POP, such as Filmation Sea Hawk, Scorpia etc. (not that I don't love those characters), to further/continuously delay getting to the fluffier gals from Wave 2/core female Rebellion characters.

As long as they appeared in the Filmation cartoon and/or vintage lien, they are fine by me! I want Flutterina, Peekablue, etc... just as much as I want Glimmer, Queen Angella, Castaspella.

We use the POP sticker on POP figures unless the belong to another group that also has a team sticker. (so Catra or SW would get their POP sticker trumped by a Horde sticker).

We went with a POP sticker in lieu of an all new "GR sticker" to promote the brand equity of the POP logo. But we did discuss both options for how to sticker. In the end we went with a method we thought would promote the equity of the Horde and POP logos the best. It wasn't designed to confuse as much as it may have!

Okay, I understand how you guys see it now.

How about the "unaffiliated" characters from the PoP cartoon like Mortella, Melog, etc. IF they ever made it into the line, would they have a PoP sticker or no sticker at all?

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.