Primary Navigation

Re: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts

In all those television cooking programmes, even top chefs like Ramsay and Oliver etc, the emphasis is constantly on taste. Anyone who doesn t taste his

Message 1 of 26
, Mar 17, 2013

0 Attachment

In all those television cooking programmes, even top chefs like Ramsay and Oliver etc, the emphasis is constantly on taste. Anyone who doesn't taste his product gets a roasting. It's plain commonsense.

Dale Brinley

This is my first reply and response to this group. So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I ve been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful

Message 2 of 26
, Mar 18, 2013

0 Attachment

This is my first reply and response to this group. So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty drink using my son as a taster. His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good". My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets. The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted. I don't cut out the fore shots or the end. Having read about the Europeans who add
methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning. Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.

This is my first reply and response to this group. So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tasty drink using my son as a taster. His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good". My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets. The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted. I don't cut out the fore shots or the end. Having read about
the Europeans who add
methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote for methanol poisoning. Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.

I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
How do you determine when to cut?
– Temperature?
– Smell?
I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
Robert

tgfoitwoods

Dale, For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I m not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails. With regards

Message 4 of 26
, Mar 18, 2013

0 Attachment

Dale,

For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> This is my first reply and response to this group.Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÂ drink using my son as a taster.Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote> for methanol poisoning.Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > ________________________________> From: last2blast last2blast@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > Â > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > How do you determine when to cut?> â" Temperature?> â" Smell?> > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.> > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > Robert>

White Bear

Good answer ZBob - The only thing I can add to this is, learn to make your cuts, 1. Foreshots - Lowend alcohols, really bad for you 2. Heads -

For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of
unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

>> This is my first reply and response to this group.Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÂ drink using my son as a taster.Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks

for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote

> for methanol poisoning.Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > ________________________________> From: last2blast last2blast@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > Â > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > How do you determine when to cut?> â€" Temperature?> â€" Smell?> > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste

and smell.

> > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > Robert>

tgfoitwoods

Joe, It scared the hell out of me, too. Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits

Bad Hooch Kills 102 in Calcutta

For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> This is my first reply and response to this group.Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÂ drink using my son as a taster.Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
> for methanol poisoning.Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > ________________________________> From: last2blast last2blast@...

> > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
> > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > Robert>

Dale Brinley

Thanks for the info, I don t add methanol to my liquor. I guess I didn t word my response very well. I ordered your book, by the way. Still waiting for

Message 8 of 26
, Mar 18, 2013

0 Attachment

Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor. I guess I didn't word my response very well. I ordered your book, by the way. Still waiting for it.

For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.

With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.

http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm

http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf

So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of
unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.

As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).

Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!

>> This is my first reply and response to this group.Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÂ drink using my son as a taster.Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks

for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote

> for methanol poisoning.Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > ________________________________> From: last2blast last2blast@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > Â > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > How do you determine when to cut?> â€" Temperature?> â€" Smell?> > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste

and smell.

> > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > Robert>

tgfoitwoods

Dale, Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I ve gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don t see your

Message 9 of 26
, Mar 18, 2013

0 Attachment

Dale,

Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.Â Â I guess I didn't word my response very well.Â I ordered your book, by the way.Â Still waiting for it.Â > > > > > ________________________________> From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM> Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > Â > Dale,> > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.> > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.> > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm> > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf> > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.> > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).> > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!> > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits> > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> >> > This is my first reply and response to this group.ÃÂ So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÃÂ drink using my son as a taster.ÃÂ His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".ÃÂ My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.ÃÂ The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.ÃÂ I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.ÃÂ Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that> ethanol is an antidote> > for methanol poisoning.ÃÂ Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: last2blast last2blast@> > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > > > > ÃÂ > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > > > How do you determine when to cut?> > Ã¢â¬" Temperature?> > Ã¢â¬" Smell?> > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.> > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > > > Robert> >>

waljaco

Methanol can make you blind and even kill. Propanol will give you a headache. wal

Message 10 of 26
, Mar 19, 2013

0 Attachment

Methanol can make you blind and even kill. Propanol will give you a headache.
wal

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:
>
> This is my first reply and response to this group.Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÂ drink using my son as a taster.Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that ethanol is an antidote
> for methanol poisoning.Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: last2blast <last2blast@...>
> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM
> Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts
>
>
> Â
> I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:
>
> http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.
>
> Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:
>
> How do you determine when to cut?
> â" Temperature?
> â" Smell?
>
> I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.
>
> This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.
>
> Robert
>

Dale Brinley

Amazon, the order says it has shipped. Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify. In my short description, I omitted

Message 11 of 26
, Mar 19, 2013

0 Attachment

Amazon, the order says it has shipped. Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify. In my short description, I omitted some steps. Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter. Along with previous cutting of the fore shots. Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments. I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments. I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor. I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe. So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks. To those who only
had negative comments against me personally, lighten up. Don't take yourself so seriously.

Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.Â Â I guess I didn't word my response very well.Â I ordered your book, by the way.Â Still waiting for it.Â > > > > > ________________________________> From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM>
Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > Â > Dale,> > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.> > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.> > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm> > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf> > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure
as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.> > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).> > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amyl alchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!> > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits> > > ---
In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> >> > This is my first reply and response to this group.Ã‚Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÃ‚Â drink using my son as a taster.Ã‚Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Ã‚Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Ã‚Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Ã‚Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Ã‚Â Having read about the
Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is poison, which is true, but that> ethanol is an antidote> > for methanol poisoning.Ã‚Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: last2blast last2blast@> > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > > > > Ã‚Â > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > >
> How do you determine when to cut?> > Ã¢â‚¬" Temperature?> > Ã¢â‚¬" Smell?> > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.> > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > > > Robert> >>

tgfoitwoods

Dale, Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We d all be horrified to

Message 12 of 26
, Mar 19, 2013

0 Attachment

Dale,

Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> Amazon, the order says it has shipped.Â Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.Â In my short description, I omitted some steps.Â Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter.Â Along with previous cutting of the fore shots.Â Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments.Â I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments.Â I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor.Â I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe.Â So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks.Â To those who only had negative comments against me personally, lighten up.Â Don't take yourself so seriously.Â > > > > > ________________________________> From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:34 PM> Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > Â > Dale,> > Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.> > Please let me know.> > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstillerMaking Fine Spirits> > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> >> > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.ÃÂ ÃÂ I guess I didn't word my response very well.ÃÂ I ordered your book, by the way.ÃÂ Still waiting for it.ÃÂ > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@> > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM> > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > > > > ÃÂ > > Dale,> > > > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.> > > > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.> > > > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm> > > > http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf> > > > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.> > > > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).> > > > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amylalchol, and a bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!> > > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits> > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> > >> > > This is my first reply and response to this group.ÃâÃÂ So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÃâÃÂ drink using my son as a taster.ÃâÃÂ His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".ÃâÃÂ My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.ÃâÃÂ The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.ÃâÃÂ I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.ÃâÃÂ Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is> poison, which is true, but that> > ethanol is an antidote> > > for methanol poisoning.ÃâÃÂ Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > From: last2blast last2blast@> > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > > > > > > > > ÃâÃÂ > > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > > > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > > > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > > > > > How do you determine when to cut?> > > ÃÂ¢Ã¢âÂ¬" Temperature?> > > ÃÂ¢Ã¢âÂ¬" Smell?> > > > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.> > > > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > > > > > Robert> > >> >>

RLB

He might have purchased a used book. Robert ________________________________ From: tgfoitwoods To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com Sent:

Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

Sorry to be harsh with you, but mis-handling methanol is one of the very very few ways in this hobby that you can kill yourself. We'd all be horrified to have one of ours come to harm.

As for the book, I see now that Powell's is now also selling my book through Amazon, which gives us three possibilities. Either you bought my book from Powell's, or you bought Kelley B Arts using a name other than Dale Brinley, or we have a problem. Let me know, please.

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> Amazon, the order says it has shipped.Â Also, for everyone who has responded to my previous comment, I should clarify.Â In my short description, I omitted some
steps.Â Such as triple distilling and passing through a charcoal filter.Â Along with previous cutting of the fore shots.Â Perhaps my mistake was making some tongue in cheek comments.Â I know the dangers of methanol and all the other nasty things that come in the fore shots. What I didn't count on was all the vitriolic comments.Â I'm sure everyone is aware that there are infinite numbers of ways to enhance or detract from the flavor.Â I know enough to stay away from those things that are unsafe.Â So, to all those with constructive comments, thanks.Â To those who only had negative comments against me personally, lighten up.Â Don't take yourself so seriously.Â > > > > > ________________________________> From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@...> To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 10:34 PM> Subject:
[Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > Â > Dale,> > Did you order my book from me at Kelley B Arts, or me at Amazon? I've gone back looking at orders from the last 3 months for both, and I don't see your name. I surely don't want to leave someone waiting who has ordered the book.> > Please let me know.> > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstillerMaking Fine Spirits> > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> >> > Thanks for the info, I don't add methanol to my liquor.Ã‚Â Ã‚Â I guess I didn't word my response very well.Ã‚Â I ordered your book, by the way.Ã‚Â Still waiting for it.Ã‚Â > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > From: tgfoitwoods zymurgybob@> > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 1:34 PM> > Subject: [Distillers] Re: TTB Cuts> > > > > > Ã‚Â > > Dale,> > > > For the first part, congratulations on getting such smooth liquor, although I'm not exactly sure how you did it keeping foreshots and tails.> > > > With regards to the methanol, everything I've ever read, including the 2 MSDS's in the links here, say that methanol had a very similar taste to ethanol, but fainter, and that it's virtually impossible to detect, by flavor or odor, at least, methanol in an ethanol solution. Fortunately, almost nothing you can do simply fermenting and distilling will give you dangerous levels of methanol, and that's helped by the fact that the antidote for methanol poisoning is drinking ethanol.> > > > http://avogadro.chem.iastate.edu/MSDS/methanol.htm> > > >
http://www.cen.iitb.ac.in/cen/usage-policies/msds/methanol.pdf> > > > So, simply put, methanol is not the problem, but it sure as hell is not the solution. The cases we hear of methanol in spirits causing death and blindness are the results of unscrupulous sellers mixing very cheap methanol into their liquors to give similar (at first!!) intoxication to the more expensive ethanol. The main reason they can get away with it, before people start dying, at least, is that nobody can taste methanol in ethanol.> > > > As far as added flavor and complexity, there are lots of highly-flavored compounds that can be created by fermentation and distilling. We call these "congeners", and in the correct trace amounts these can give certain liquors their characteristic flavors and odors (and possibly headaches).> > > > Some of these are acetone, acetaldehyde, ethyl acetate, ethyl proprionate, amylalchol, and a
bunch of others, Never never NEVER add methanol to your liquor!!!> > > > Zymurgy Bob, a simple potstiller Making Fine Spirits> > > > > > --- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley dalebrinley@ wrote:> > >> > > This is my first reply and response to this group.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â So, have mercy on me. As far as taste, I've been reading a lot of comments and picking up a lot of useful information. (Even bad information is useful) I've been able to convert my "corn wine" to a tastyÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â drink using my son as a taster.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â His criteria is "if it doesn't cause me to make a face, it's pretty good".Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â My distilled "corn wine" is quite smooth and doesn't cause a face, and I can verify that. I use a pH balancer and corn meal and sugar and a good whiskey yeast and pour all the slop back into the mash and re-use it. The
more I slop back (is that a proper term?), the better it gets.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â The taste, straight up, with no ice, is better than I've ever tasted.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â I don't cut out the fore shots or the end.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Having read about the Europeans who add methanol to their drinks for flavor, I though, why not, let's get creative. I've read that methanol is> poison, which is true, but that> > ethanol is an antidote> > > for methanol poisoning.Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â Too much methanol in a drink will give you a head ache, but just the right amount adds flavor.> > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________> > > From: last2blast last2blast@> > > To: Distillers@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Saturday, March 16, 2013 9:55 PM> > > Subject: [Distillers] TTB Cuts> > >
> > > > > > Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â > > > I am reading an 85 page presentation put on by TTB who controls spirit production in US:> > > > > > http://www.ttb.gov/expo/presentations-black/s06-bw-ammended.pdf.> > > > > > Yes I know some of you old timers will hate this, but TTB states:> > > > > > How do you determine when to cut?> > > ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" Temperature?> > > ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â€šÂ¬" Smell?> > > > > > I guess they are not keen on the idea of taste and smell.> > > > > > This presentation is informative, and it helps to clear up some misconception for us US hobbyist who are thinking of going legal one day.> > > > > > Robert> > >> >>

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Dale Brinley <dalebrinley@...> wrote:>> You're right, it was sold by Powell's. Bought in my name.Â Est. delivery 3/15 - 4/01.Â Should be arriving any day now.> > > > ----snip----

jsducote

Do you mean that you re having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2 pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to

Message 17 of 26
, Mar 20, 2013

0 Attachment

Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
-j

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Angelis <angelis1972@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small?
>
> Michael

Angelis

Didn t even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up Michael

Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
-j

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, Angelis <angelis1972@...> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to make a coil out of 3/8 tubing to fit into a 2 inch pipe but don't think I can get it to it. Can I use 1/4 in or is that too small?
>
> Michael

girlguidebiscuit

This pdf will help you. It helped me. http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=20214 Do you mean that you re having trouble winding the coil

Message 19 of 26
, Mar 20, 2013

0 Attachment

This pdf will help you. It helped me. http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=20214

Do you mean that you're having trouble winding the coil tight enough without kinking to use a 2" pipe as the water cooling jacket? If so, why limit yourself to 2"? The water jacket pipe will not come into contact with your wash/distillate, so you can use any material. PVC is readily available in much larger diams.
-j
_._,___

RLB

Be very careful. Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic. Robert

Message 20 of 26
, Mar 20, 2013

0 Attachment

Be very careful. Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic.

I made a condenser using 1/4 inch copper. To keep it from kinking, I bought the copper in a coil, unrolled it, taped one end and filled it with salt. I then

Message 21 of 26
, Mar 20, 2013

0 Attachment

I made a condenser using 1/4 inch copper. To keep it from kinking, I bought the copper in a coil, unrolled it, taped one end and filled it with salt. I then wrapped it around a pipe, the notched a bigger pipe, slid the bigger pipe over my inside coil and wrapped it back the other way. I then flared on the connections and hooked it up to the water hose. It took about three hours to sit there under pressure before it dissolved the salt and shot a stream of water out the other side. I came out nice, fits inside my 2" still and works well.
Doug

According to plasticpipe.org, the maximum suggested temperature for PVC is 150F, while max temp for CPVC & PEX is 210F. But unless I m envisaging the usage

Message 22 of 26
, Mar 21, 2013

0 Attachment

According to plasticpipe.org, the maximum suggested temperature for PVC is 150F, while max temp for CPVC & PEX is 210F. But unless I'm envisaging the usage incorrectly, this is for a cooling jacket around the condenser line, not the condenser itself. Do your coolants reach either of those temps? The only point to worry about might be where the condenser enters the jacket, but that could be made with a rubber or cork bung instead of directly touching the jacket end-cap.
-j

--- In Distillers@yahoogroups.com, RLB <last2blast@...> wrote:
>
> Be very careful. Water and steam will be 200+ and plastic melts 250 to 285, so a nick might cause a leak in that soft plastic.
>
> Robert
> ________________________________
> From: Angelis <angelis1972@...>
>
> Didn't even think about using PVC. Was not sure how it would hold up
>
> Michael

Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.