tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post1137809655951648957..comments2016-12-10T03:29:06.834+02:00Comments on Dienekes’ Anthropology Blog: Correlation of Y-haplogroups J2 and J1 with Neolithic agro-pastoral economiesDienekeshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02082684850093948970noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-79076459383476866592012-12-10T16:12:16.932+02:002012-12-10T16:12:16.932+02:00&quot;Old subject, but it fits in&quot;
This theo...&quot;Old subject, but it fits in&quot;<br /><br />This theorie could explain why Semitic nomadic pastoralists were attracted to Sumer in the first place.<br /><br />Drought May Have Killed Sumerian Language<br />http://www.livescience.com/25221-drought-killed-sumerian-language.htmlCreativehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16649693310029639154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-6337272460250765522011-07-17T00:12:35.676+03:002011-07-17T00:12:35.676+03:00the biggest frequency of J2 was found in north-eas...the biggest frequency of J2 was found in north-eastern Kazbegi mountainous region of Georgia - Georgians of this region had 76% of J2. how can this be explained?zviadanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14156858144592215037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-55482929073875576692010-10-12T03:49:12.500+03:002010-10-12T03:49:12.500+03:00Hello Bilad. Thank you for your informative posts...Hello Bilad. Thank you for your informative posts. J1* with DYS388=13 does indeed occur with exceptionally high frequency among Assyrians. Eighteen of twenty-one J1* Assyrians, as of the current count, are DYS388=13. And, as I suspect you are aware, our Assyrian-Aramaic language continues to feature a functional vocabulary that is very similar to the Akkadian of old.dok101http://www.blogger.com/profile/13206091188143667035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-85250492960754696982009-11-04T20:41:37.897+02:002009-11-04T20:41:37.897+02:00&quot;Dr Golda H. Kaplan is a linguist. She resear...&quot;Dr Golda H. Kaplan is a linguist. She researches Akkadian, especially its system of verb tenses. Her principal ideas can be found in the monograph Use of aspect-tense verbal forms in Akkadian texts of the Hammurapi period (1792-1750 B.C.) published in English in 2002. She wrote also The Sketches On Akkadian Grammar, the most detailed study guide on Akkadian in Russia.&quot; <br />--------------------------------<br /> The Assyrians also had a civilization that flourished to the west of Lake Urmia(Azerbaijan) in the centuries prior to creation of Media and Albania. Most of the ancient documents and inscriptions used for historical analysis of the area come from the Assyrians and from the kingdom of Urartu. In dealing with the history of Azerbaijan, most western scholars refer to Greek, Arab, Roman, and Persian sources.&quot;<br />----------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />In Anatolia, the first millennium B.C. begins in a period of disruption and decentralization: new states form and regroup. Greek colonies are established in southern and western Anatolia and, later, on the Black Sea coasts. By the late eighth century B.C., the Neo-Assyrian empire, with its capital cities in Mesopotamia, confronts small kingdoms in both Anatolia and the Southern Caucasus, including Urartu, Phrygia, and (later) Lydia<br />------------------------------<br />Maybe The above historical and lingo facts might explain too, how J1 388=13 is spread up north to Caucasia since J1 388=13 is very common among Assyrians too.Biladhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00927399981098778299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-7361933895940865162009-11-04T20:30:13.646+02:002009-11-04T20:30:13.646+02:00BRIEF CHECHEN HISTORY
&quot;Ethnic Identity
We, ...BRIEF CHECHEN HISTORY<br /><br />&quot;Ethnic Identity<br /><br />We, the Chechens, are not slavs. We are not Turks, despite the fact that Turkey unites all North Caucasus Muslim into a category which is related to them. We are not even &quot;Chechen.&quot; This was coined by the Russians after the name of a village (Chechen-aul) where the Russians first encountered our people in the early 16th century. The first written mention of our people was in the 7th century, where we were known as the &quot;Noxche&quot; (pronounced &quot;No-h-chee&quot; with the &quot;h&quot; pronounced as if one was gargling from the back of the mouth: very similar to one of the ancient Aramaic letters).&quot;<br /><br />Language<br /><br />The Noxche language is considered one of the most difficult and oldest languages in the Caucasus. Its roots can be traced most closely to the ancient Mesopotamians. A cuneiform-style of writing is evident on some of the stone inscriptions, dating at least to 2,800 BC. The Noxche language, as we know it today, is most linked to some of the words used by the ancient Akkhadians, and can be traced at least to 1200 BC.. It is not related to Russian, Slavic, Indo-European or Turkish languages<br /><br />1,850 BC: bronze working evident as the northern most point. Contemporary to bronze working among the Hurrians, Kassites, Amorites and others to the south. &quot;<br /><br />http://russia.rin.ru/guides_e/3214.html<br />http://amina.com/article/br_hist.html<br /><br />from J1-M267 Y lineage marks climate-driven pre-historical human displacements study<br /><br />D116 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D119b J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D077 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D082 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D084 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D085 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D086 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D087 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D088 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D089 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br />D090 J1-M267 (xJ1a-e) Chechens Dagestan Akkin North-Caucasian Islam<br /><br /> most Chechens are j1 dys388=13Biladhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00927399981098778299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-50809875201450143192009-09-26T07:05:35.611+03:002009-09-26T07:05:35.611+03:00I must comment on Lethe, regarding J1.
The fact t...I must comment on Lethe, regarding J1.<br /><br />The fact that J1 with DYS388=13 exists, is of no importance. It is no more older than J-P58 when you go backwards to the root of J-M267. J-M267 most likely had its original DYS388=15, so DYS388=13 is just two mutations down from the original mode for that marker. If J-M267 is 20+ Ky old then the two downward mutations would bring it to the Neolithic age, much the same age as the date for J-P58. The time to their TMRCA is about the same. J1 with DYS388=13 is just another variety of J1 peculiar to the Pontic region, nothing special. When you check the DYS marker allele values for J1 with DYS388=13 you find that most of the other DYS marker allele values are higher than in J-P58. Father and son studies of mutations across generations have found that mutations increasing allele values are more common than those decreasing allele values. For J-P58 to have mostly lower DYS marker values than the Pontic version of J1 implies that the Pontic J1 originated at a later date rather than earlier.Pontohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01887371055810655999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-51108181248766435372009-09-26T06:50:34.265+03:002009-09-26T06:50:34.265+03:00I mean no offense to King and Underhill as they ar...I mean no offense to King and Underhill as they are competent geneticists good with agarose gel and using technology but the study is the silliest and stupidest one I have ever come across.<br /><br />Why? Simple. Haplogroup J1 is predominated by men from the Middle East who are mostly Arabised Arabs or Arabians who speak forms of Semitic languages and who live in arid regions of the world, specifically the Arabian peninsula, the Levantine and Mesopotamia, not to mention African locales abutting the Sahara. Europe occasionally gets nasty Sirocco winds courtesy of Africa. It is hot and arid there. Where do J2 men mostly live? In well watered lands better suited to agriculture.<br /><br />The stupid study should have shown why the cohort of men who were mostly J1 or J2 took the routes out of the IJ genesis, their Eden, to where they are now found in high numbers, and how they got from the small initial founding populations to predominate where they are now found in such high frequencies e.g Yemeni men are over 70% J1. It is like the question: Why are Irishmen over 90% R1b? Those frequencies over 60% are enough to make people wonder what the hell Irish people and Yemeni Arabs were getting up to. There was no effort made by King and co to extrapolate back in time over the millenia to find out the starting points of J1 or J2 and their movements to end up where they ended up and in their present frequencies. The reasons may be flimsy but something caused that state of affairs.<br /><br />I can imagine a study that will find out that bearers of E1a1 are mostly sub Saharan Africans with thick everted lips, woolly hair, heavy lidded eyes and a propensity to have dark brown skin.<br /><br />Honestly some of these researchers have too much time on their hands.Pontohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01887371055810655999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-1611998762033129272008-06-03T08:49:00.000+03:002008-06-03T08:49:00.000+03:00J2a-M410 and J1-(dys388=13) linked to Hurro-Uratia...J2a-M410 and J1-(dys388=13) linked to Hurro-Uratian.<BR/><BR/>http://www.linguistics.ucsb.edu/projects/Languages-and-Genes/plenary/AbstractKing.pdf<BR/><BR/>Diakonoff and Starostin (1986) argued that the Hurrian and Urartian languages of Northern<BR/>Syria, Northern Iraq, Eastern Anatolia and Armenia were genetically related to the languages of<BR/>the Northeastern Caucasus, such as Lezgi and Chechen. Thus, according to their model, the<BR/>Northeast Caucasian languages were distributed during the Bronze and Iron ages over a much<BR/>larger geographic area than that of their current distribution. Similarly Y-chromosome lineages<BR/>J2a-M410 and J1-(dys388=13) lineages demonstrate their maximal Y-STR diversity in Eastern<BR/>Anatolia/Northwestern Iranian samples of contemporary Turkish and Neo-Assyrian populations.<BR/>In this presentation, we will trace the geographic and temporal origins of the J lineages<BR/>which have been associated with the demic expansion of agro-pastoral Neolithic economy in<BR/>Southeastern Europe, Anatolia, the Levant, Mesopotamia and Iran. WE will adduce evidence that<BR/>Y-chromosome J lineages originated in the coastal area of the Eastern Mediterranean during the<BR/>LGM and then spread to Eastern Anatolia just prior to the Younger Dryas. With the advent of the<BR/>Neolithic agricultural package, J2a-M410 then spread to Central and Western Anatolia, Crete,<BR/>and Southern Italy, while J2b-M12 spread to Greece and the Balkans. J1-(dys388>13) lineages<BR/>diffused to the Levant and the Arabian Peninsula, while J1-(dys388=13) lineages remained in the<BR/>Taurus/Zagros mountain areas of Turkey and Iran. The spatial covariation of J-lineages with the<BR/>Bronze Age to present day distribution of the Hurrian, Urartian and North Caucasian languages<BR/>suggests that the early Neolithic farmers in the Near East and in Iran may have spoken North<BR/>Caucasian related languages at the time.Lethehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17533595569716877250noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-46425147365296574042008-05-30T16:25:00.000+03:002008-05-30T16:25:00.000+03:00I suspect that they will have their own type of J1...I suspect that they will have their own type of J1, related to that found in northeastern Turkey too. Unfortunately, the Caucasus has not been studied with fine resolution markers yet, but hopefully this will change when the Genographic project publishes their results from the region.dienekesphttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01341303424873475334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7785493.post-24553336863866977012008-05-30T07:59:00.000+03:002008-05-30T07:59:00.000+03:00This might be farfetched but did anyone notice tha...This might be farfetched but did anyone notice that the significant J1concentrations in the Caucasus are carried by ethnic groups that speak a Northeast Caucasian language which groups with Hurrian/Urartian and that the ancient Urartian Kingdom was located in eastern Anatolia. So their might be a link between the J1 with the short DYS388 alleles found in northeastern Anatolia and the J1 in Dagestan.<BR/><BR/>“The Alarodian languages are a proposed language family that encompasses the Northeast Caucasian or Dagestan languages and the extinct Hurro-Urartian languages.”Lethehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17533595569716877250noreply@blogger.com