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Kinda. I'm saying that the thoughts are simply assumptions about reality. We really don't know one way or the other. If there is pain there upon viewing something, that is OUR pain, not the imagined pain of someone else. By looking at it from this perspective, it becomes recognized that we can allow ourselves to be with that pain, instead of projecting it "out there". And then things REALLY have the opportunity to start to changing permanently in a big way. The sky's the limit.

And I'm also suggesting that the assumptions go so incredibly deep, that to see them clearly even calls separation itself into question.

I hope that clarifies a bit what I'm trying to get at...

Amber2008 wrote:

Hi Mystic,

so what you are saying is that if I am walking along, and see a homeless person, and my thoughts start to judge and think bad things about this homeless person, I should just let the thoughts flow and ignore the feelings and judging?

Light Mystic wrote:Well, thoughts, for me, are not the reality. They are just that: thoughts. But it's very hard to see that if there's a reacting to them or trying not to feel them. So, what if you don't put stock in your thoughts and feelings? They are welcome to be there, but they can be recognized as just not having to do with anything other than how you are thinking and feeling at this moment. They not the reality, the feelings are not really about something. The reality is just that this feeling is coming up. From that perspective then they can be felt and appreciated, because then they are not being avoided in an attempt to fix something "out there". and then I think it starts to become increasingly obvious how they are not the reality, and so will start to fade and drop off naturally over time. That's worked for me.

How do you feel if you give your thoughts and feelings attention, allowing them to arise, but let them not really be about anything other than what they are: thoughts and feelings?

Amber2008 wrote:

Hi mystic,

I feel right now they are both the same living the illusion of this world - the dramas, the judgements and believing that we are separate from eachother. how can I over come that?

Hi Mystic,

so what you are saying is that if I am walking along, and see a homeless person, and my thoughts start to judge and think bad things about this homeless person, I should just let the thoughts flow and ignore the feelings and judging?

Well, thoughts, for me, are not the reality. They are just that: thoughts. But it's very hard to see that if there's a reacting to them or trying not to feel them. So, what if you don't put stock in your thoughts and feelings? They are welcome to be there, but they can be recognized as just not having to do with anything other than how you are thinking and feeling at this moment. They not the reality, the feelings are not really about something. The reality is just that this feeling is coming up. From that perspective then they can be felt and appreciated, because then they are not being avoided in an attempt to fix something "out there". and then I think it starts to become increasingly obvious how they are not the reality, and so will start to fade and drop off naturally over time. That's worked for me.

How do you feel if you give your thoughts and feelings attention, allowing them to arise, but let them not really be about anything other than what they are: thoughts and feelings?

Amber2008 wrote:

Hi mystic,

I feel right now they are both the same living the illusion of this world - the dramas, the judgements and believing that we are separate from eachother. how can I over come that?

Hi Everyone , I haven't been on a while, glad I stopped in to see this discussion about the ego. My ego has such control over my life , and would love to be able to control my ego instead, or to eliminate it completely, especially about judging. An example I had to go to town - in this area there are alot of homeless people. And sadly I was judging them and feared them, and didn't want to be close to them. I was so wrong thinking like that. Instead of having compassion and maybe wanting to help them I had disgust and bad judgement towards them . So what Jason wrote below, I would love to be able to conquer and live egoless....thanks

Jackie

Jason wrote:My heart tells me that I'm still on the path to taming the ego, I know this because my ego still speaks up now & then.

Try this if you dare, an ego exercise. (It's harder then you think)Try to go 30 days without:

judging

blaming anybody or yourself for any "level" of wrong doing

gossiping about anybody behind there back

criticizing anybody or YOURSELF...!

telling someone that there wrong (even if there are)

The ego likes to point out what someone has done wrong.

Love loves to point out what someone has done right.

Our ego wants to continue with conflict and separation - which are food for it's survival.

For what it's worth, I don't think there's anything wrong with judging, as long as you realize that it doesn't devalue them just because they are wearing silly clothes, etc.. The judgments aren't in the way, just the strong belief in their reality. If there's no belief in their reality, then you can be free to judge without it having to be this horrible thing. I think you kind of already get that, but you see what I'm saying....

Thanks for your response. I kind of feel like the feeling of separateness itself, the ego, that feels the need to judge. That's natural if there is separation, it's just that the appearance of separation isn't true. So there's nothing wrong with judging on the face of it, just believing the judgments. And then only because it makes us unhappy and suffer. You know? Who says that certain behavior is okay and other isn't? I don't think it's possible to be more loving by judging yourself for judging yourself. It might be unkind to oneself and others NOT to tell someone they are wrong if that is what is right for us in the situation.

That said, I actually really appreciate your point, because that list is pretty all encompassing (about not blaming yourself, etc.). But I can just a see situation where someone goes "aah! I shouldn't have judged them! Oh wait, I shouldn't judge myself! Ahh! I just did it again - I'm judging myself for judging myself. Okay, so maybe it's okay to judge myself, I'll give myself a break. No! But wait...I'm supposed to go 30 days!" and so on. Ultimately, it's important to realize how innocent we all are. No one hurts themselves or others intentionally, and when it's done intentionally, it's only out of extreme pain. If we give ourselves a break, then we can start to receive more, and then we can finally get a hint of how infinite we really are and what God really thinks about us. We deserve to know how amazing and perfectly crafted we all really are....

Jason wrote:My heart tells me that I'm still on the path to taming the ego, I know this because my ego still speaks up now & then.

Try this if you dare, an ego exercise. (It's harder then you think) Try to go 30 days without:

judging

blaming anybody or yourself for any "level" of wrong doing

gossiping about anybody behind there back

criticizing anybody or YOURSELF...!

telling someone that there wrong (even if there are)

The ego likes to point out what someone has done wrong.

Love loves to point out what someone has done right.

Our ego wants to continue with conflict and separation - which are food for it's survival.

Last edited by Light Mystic on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

So ego is identification with individuality. And when that identification goes, we realize we never were individuals in the first place...

Sounds good to me Jon. That was my experience....

Jon28 wrote:Light Mystic............to my understanding, the simplest way I can phrase it, is that the ego is who we think we are, and the soul is who we truly are..........The soul is perfect, can not do wrong, Ego has covered up or has hidden the soul because of its nature................but the soul is still there, shining. Once we lose ego, we are like children again...........trusting, amazed by simple things, loving naturally. To obtain the kingdom of heaven, we must be like a child.........That is, what I believe Jesus meant..........the kingdom of heaven is within each of us. Just lose the ego..............

Akindra wrote:So do you think after we pass on from this life, that we might take our "knowing" with us, but not our ego and conditioning?

Thats a good question Akindra, in which I have no answer. I would "guess" that we would leave ego behind - maybe?

We were born from love - not ego, so my opinion would be we only come across ego on this plane, in which you'd think it would reside here when we move on to the next plane? That "is still" a good question Akindra...

Hello Light Mystic,

Light Mystic wrote:So does that mean the ego can drop off according to this scenario? Or is it rather just seen to have never existed? Or is it an important part of life that just ends up in balance? All of the above? None of the above?

Humm... Some spiritual teachers would agree with getting rid of the ego, I'm still sitting on the fence with this one, it's hard to answer that sort of question when most of us are answering from a "ego" point of view.

You'd think balance would work well here? But again to me we are only answering this from the mind, and not the heart.

Light Mystic wrote:Also an important point, on the self love note, is that ego, in addition to a complete focus on being better and what your getting and so forth can also go the other way. It can be "I'm not good enough, I don't have enough, I could NEVER deserve that!" Etc.

The other side of the coin - ego dressed in rags instead of robes. As you point out, neither is really just being open to yourself. And when we have permission to really be open to ourselves, then we can finally really be open to others. That's what I've noticed for myself.

Yeah I agree, ego is very sneaky and a lot smarter then what we think, it makes us believe that we will be better off being broke and what you said above.

Ego makes us believe that hating the self is more "important" then loving ourselves. And over 10, 30, 50 yrs we drift further & further away from love, and closer & closer to self-hate or EGO.

Hi John, You've made some good points, children yes, we do lose ourselves, we forget who we are, or we've forgotten who we were. It's only on returning to love that weakens and dismisses the ego.

Light Mystic............to my understanding, the simplest way I can phrase it, is that the ego is who we think we are, and the soul is who we truly are..........The soul is perfect, can not do wrong, Ego has covered up or has hidden the soul because of its nature................but the soul is still there, shining. Once we lose ego, we are like children again...........trusting, amazed by simple things, loving naturally. To obtain the kingdom of heaven, we must be like a child.........That is, what I believe Jesus meant..........the kingdom of heaven is within each of us. Just lose the ego..............

So ego is that individualization mechanism? That sounds like a pretty good definition to me. So does that mean the ego can drop off according to this scenario? Or is it rather just seen to have never existed? Or is it an important part of life that just ends up in balance? All of the above? None of the above?

Also an important point, on the self love note, is that ego, in addition to a complete focus on being better and what your getting and so forth can also go the other way. It can be "I'm not good enough, I don't have enough, I could NEVER deserve that!" Etc. The other side of the coin - ego dressed in rags instead of robes. As you point out, neither is really just being open to yourself. And when we have permission to really be open to ourselves, then we can finally really be open to others. That's what I've noticed for myself.

It reminds me of:

Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate,but that we are powerful beyond measure.

It is our light, not our darkness, that frightens us.We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant,gorgeous, handsome, talented and fabulous?

Actually, who are you not to be?You are a child of God.

Your playing small does not serve the world.There is nothing enlightened about shrinkingso that other people won't feel insecure around you.

We were born to make manifest the glory of God within us.It is not just in some; it is in everyone.

And, as we let our own light shine, we consciously giveother people permission to do the same.As we are liberated from our fear,our presence automatically liberates others.

~Nelson Mandela

Anyway, I would quite enjoy hearing what you have to say about the follow up questions....

Thanks for posting!

Jason wrote:Hello everybody, I'm new here but I'll have a stab in the dark at this one...

Ego's job role says to the self: Hello I'm your ego and I'll help you look after number one. Then it goes on to counsel us to lookout for ourselves at the expense of others. It teaches us selfishness, greed, competition and judgment. It convinces us that we are separate from everyone else.

Ego: I'm going to be better then him, How much can I get? I need more then her, What can I get out of it? I'm better then you, me me me, I I I.

Self-love: How can I serve? How can I help someone else today? What can I do to help? Service...

So if ego is that which has soul by the throat, then what is ego exactly? And what is the difference between the two?

Jon28 wrote:Consider this quotation, related by Brother Anandamoy an advanced disciple of guru Paramahansa Yogananda."The ego has the soul by the throat." If the soul is perfect, a divine piece of God in each of us, thereby we may deduce that we are God. There is only One..........each little individual ego acts as if it is the center of the universe........being buffetted by storms of anger, jealousy, hatred, superiority, inferiority, et. al.

When the ego has become attuned to God, it may act as a friend, only if it is subservient to the soul. If our actions are guided by divine wisdom and we are in tune with God and guru, the ego becomes lost in essence and we act as the perfect soul that we are.

Hello everybody, I'm new here but I'll have a stab in the dark at this one...

In my opinion I'd say that the ego is just literally a fearful thought, that's been learnt on upbringing. Now coming from this point - all natural thoughts are affected. A feeling of "separateness" as Light Mystic says.

When a child is born he runs towards his mother, his father, a butterfly, or flower because of his unconditional love. A child has no mind, he only feels with his heart.

But when the child grows up and starts living in the mind, he starts doubting everything & finding fault with everything. We are taught to compete, with everything, which in my view is a path to the ego. (Edging Goodness Out)

We are taught to be good little boys and girls, which implies we are not that all ready???

My guess is that ego's biggest enemy is self-love, or put it another way the ego is our self-love turned into self hatred.

Ego's job role says to the self: Hello I'm your ego and I'll help you look after number one. Then it goes on to counsel us to lookout for ourselves at the expense of others. It teaches us selfishness, greed, competition and judgment. It convinces us that we are separate from everyone else.

Ego: I'm going to be better then him, How much can I get? I need more then her, What can I get out of it? I'm better then you, me me me, I I I.

Self-love: How can I serve? How can I help someone else today? What can I do to help? Service...

Consider this quotation, related by Brother Anandamoy an advanced disciple of guru Paramahansa Yogananda."The ego has the soul by the throat." If the soul is perfect, a divine piece of God in each of us, thereby we may deduce that we are God. There is only One..........each little individual ego acts as if it is the center of the universe........being buffetted by storms of anger, jealousy, hatred, superiority, inferiority, et. al.

When the ego has become attuned to God, it may act as a friend, only if it is subservient to the soul. If our actions are guided by divine wisdom and we are in tune with God and guru, the ego becomes lost in essence and we act as the perfect soul that we are.

Well, I came across an article just now that was interesting about ego and personality etc - I don't know that it helps - think I'd have to read it a few times to get my head around it. But anyway - here are some extracts below - and the whole thing is at The Human Personality (Pages 3-8

However, if the human personality terminates with death, then who or what returns?

It is necessary to clarify once and for all that it is the ego which continues after death; yes, the “I” returns, the psychological “I” comes back to this valley of tears.

It is necessary for our readers to not mistake the Law of Return for the theory of reincarnation taught by modern Theosophy. The Theosophical theory of reincarnation had its origins in the doctrine of Krishna, which is a Hindu religion of a Vedic type, yet, his doctrine was regrettably modified, adulterated by “reformers.”

In the authentic, original doctrine taught by Krishna, only the heroes, the guides, those who already possess sacred individuality reincarnate.

Yes, the pluralized “I” returns, comes back, nevertheless, this is not reincarnation. Therefore, the crowds, the multitudes return, but this process is not reincarnation.

The Doctrine of Eternal Return and of the wheel of successive lives has also been very wisely taught by Gautama Buddha, but his followers greatly adulterated his teaching.

Naturally, a new human personality has to be created in every return; so, every new human personality is fashioned during the first seven years of childhood. Thus, the family environment, the life in the street and at the school, adds to the human personality its unique, characteristic tinge, and the example of adults is decisive in the formation of the infant’s personality.

The revolutionary psychology of the Gnostic movements, in a clear and precise manner, makes an in-depth difference between the ego and the essence.

However, when the ego begins to control the tender personality of the child, then all the beauty of the Essence begins to disappear and the characteristic psychological defects of every human being bloom in its place.

We must distinguish between the ego and the Essence in much the same way as we distinguish between the personality and the Essence.

Understand: the human being is born with an Essence but not with a personality; thus, it is necessary to create the personality. Nevertheless, the personality and the Essence must be developed in a harmonious and balanced manner.

There is a lot of confusion among the students of psychology regarding personality, the Essence and the ego; some mistake the personality for the Essence, and others mistake the ego or “I” for the Essence.Thus, many are the pseudo-esoteric or pseudo occultist schools that have the impersonal life as a goal of their studies. It is necessary to clarify for them that the personality is not what we have to dissolve.

It is essential to know that we need to disintegrate the ego, the “myself,” and reduce it to cosmic dust, and that the personality is merely a vehicle of action, a vehicle that was necessary to create, to fabricate.

This issue about the dissolution of the ego or “I” confuses and annoys the pseudo-esotericists, since they are convinced that the ego is divine; yes, they think that the ego or “I” is the Being, the divine Monad, etc. Yet, it is necessary, it is essential, it is unpostponable, to comprehend that the ego or “I” is anything but divine.

The ego is the Satan of the Bible: a bunch of memories, desires, passions, hates, resentments, concupiscence, adulteries, and inheritance of family, race, nations, etc.

Listen: superior or inferior are always two sections of the same thing. Thus, the superior “I” and the inferior “I” are two sections of the same ego.

The divine Being, the Monad, the Innermost, has nothing to do with any form of “I.”

The personality in itself is only a vehicle and nothing else; therefore, either the ego or the Being can manifest through the personality: everything depends on us.

Therefore, it is urgent to dissolve the ego, so that only the psychological Essence of our true Being can manifests itself through our personality. It is indispensable that educators completely understand the necessity of harmoniously cultivating the three aspects of the human personality.

_________________Glenda :-) May the realisation of all paths leading to the same truth become fruitful in this age of religious intolerance.

Hehe. Well, for me, I just see ego as a feeling of separateness from everything else. Without that feeling there, in the absence of that assumption of separateness, there appears to be a great deal of all encompassing non-separateness. Which is very nice. The idea of losing individuality was certain quite disturbing a little while back (actually close to the time I joined this forum), but since then I've accepting my findings that that there has NEVER been a separate person, just the idea of one. And it was never really true. And the ego was the misunderstanding of that. That said, I find that there always seems to be deepening and refining levels of how connected it is. And if there is a growing connection, then could the lack of understanding of that layer of connection prior to that be considered ego? I really don't know. That's partially why I'm enjoying talking about it with you (and Lalita, wherever she is).

Yes, I believe (or at least I hope) there is an individual soul. Ithink ego might be just part of the human illusion when we take on thisform.

I was speaking to a work friend yesterday and wastelling him about this conversation. He said he thinks that the ego ispart of the human experience and not something we have as part of oursoul because of masters and sages that do not have an ego.

Whetherwe have an individual soul has been something I've looked a fair bit at- and I've read the viewpoints from different religions etc. Ipersonally, can interpret from each one that we do have an individualsoul - but maybe that's just my ego talking????????

What do you think?

_________________Glenda :-) May the realisation of all paths leading to the same truth become fruitful in this age of religious intolerance.

Hey, thanks for your thoughts guys! I appreciate your insights. So, is there an ego as separate from an individual person? Lalita seems to be saying yes, and akindra seems to be saying no? Is that right? And can I have you guys say why yes or no?

I agree with Akindra,For me it is also that which needs to be fed. Anything that gets 'too much' enjoyment that is temporary and needs to be identified with is ego.Ego also thrives on, or maybe is also, attachment. For me in my now I am trying to watch the mind (ego) play games trying to be attached to the body.It tells me "what will happen if you don't think about that anymore?",ie. "who are you without this need?" or "if you let go, this will happen.." It tries all sorts of tricks to suck you in to identify with it, to pull you into feeling good or feeling miserable, it wants you to give it all your attention to feed it.

What a good discussion to have - and I bet there are lots of ways people could answer.

The way I find it easiest to understand for me is that the ego is the mind.

ie...we are made up of mind/body/spirit - and if we use all these tools together then that is the ultimate way of living.

Mostlypeople use ego in a bad sense, which I understand as the use of themind, without input from the spirit and body. eg for sensegratification - human satisfaction without it doing good for the soulor body.

_________________Glenda :-) May the realisation of all paths leading to the same truth become fruitful in this age of religious intolerance.

That’s a great question and has a multitude amount of descriptions and theories ... but before I put forward my own scenario/answer I would also like to see what others have to say first, without my influence.

So come on everyone ... give this question a shot and let’s see how diverse the answers can be.

Being able to look at and answer this question is in itself going to help you understand the prime principle of who you are! This is of course, where the whole spiritual journey has been leading us, getting to know who we truly are.