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Lol Wow doesn't survive because it is good,it is EASY and MANY games have already been better than Wow.

I can however see if you went from Wow >SWTOR you might think SWTOR is the greatest,however ihave played and seen just about every single last mechanic/quest idea any game can offer.So for me SWTOR was not that intriguing.

I will admit i did have some fun during Beta and it is an OK game.However after a couple weekends i feel i have already seen all i need to see and the game already lost it's NEW feeling and lustre.

To call the game th ultimate or even amazing,you would have to elaborate on the games design and explin how it is different,better or even creative.

It is a nice size world,quite a bit to discover and a decently filled in world.However it is the games CORE systems that are just average and imo soemtimes lacking badly.

Don't get me started on Skyrim either ..lol,YES SWTOR is miles better than Skyrim,that is not why i am saying the game is average.

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How much do I need to play to get an accurate opinion of a game mechanic? I had two level 20+ characters one on each side.

Dialog is nice but when all you're doing is running to a map cord clicking an item, killing ten of these or waiting for a certain number of items to drop it gets a tad underwhelming even if the NPCs are voiced.

I have to agree with this. Story and good dialogue options are the best part of the game and I really enjoyed them. Unfortunately, probably something like 90% or more of my time playing the beta went straight into combat...and the combat system is a boring drag where the specific quest objectives (between cut scenes) are the same crap all the other wow-esque MMOs do. The major problem I have with the game is they didn't innovate at all in the part of the game you spend most of your time.

Originally posted by Wizardry

Lol Wow doesn't survive because it is good,it is EASY and MANY games have already been better than Wow.

Unfortunately, there are NOT any MMOs out there that are better than WoW. Part of the reason WoW has done so well with little changes or innovation is because they haven't had any decent competition. Heck, most of the "innovations" they have made have been to mimic other MMOs that have come out or are coming out. It's just a really polished MMO in a sea of unpolished crap, with a few niche games thrown in that appeal to a smaller number of people by virtue of their design.

I will say that SWTOR seems like it's actually polished enough that it should actually give WoW some competition and hopefully this will lead to more innovation -- but I imagine GW2 will do more in this regard. Based on WoW, I expect SWTOR to be able to capture and hold millions of players which is 10+ times better than other western MMOs except for WoW (yeah, other western MMOs are that niche or that bad).

Honestly even though TOR has voice acting i even found the actual questing better in RIFT which is pretty bad when you think about it since both WoW and Lotro kick RIFTs ass in quality quest content.

I could never go back to WoW questing, now after i tried SWTOR.. WoW would be sooooo boring

SWTOR's quest are extremely below average compared to WoWs.

I know the stories are nice due to the NPC interactions via spoken dialog but think about the actual quest that you have to complete in SWTOR, then think back to all the crazy shit you did in WoW, or the epic quests in Lotro.

SWTOR pales in comparison. It does do a good job via voice acting to mask its sub-standard questing but once you peel that away its mehh.

I don't think you played much at all. Questing in SWTOR I've found is FAR superior to WoW. Even a lot of WoW fans agree to that.

How much do I need to play to get an accurate opinion of a game mechanic? I had two level 20+ characters one on each side.

Dialog is nice but when all you're doing is running to a map cord clicking an item, killing ten of these or waiting for a certain number of items to drop it gets a tad underwhelming even if the NPCs are voiced.

Name a game you aren't doing that? Almost every RPG game boils down to kill x or collect x.

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Originally posted by Z3R01How much do I need to play to get an accurate opinion of a game mechanic? I had two level 20+ characters one on each side.

Dialog is nice but when all you're doing is running to a map cord clicking an item, killing ten of these or waiting for a certain number of items to drop it gets a tad underwhelming even if the NPCs are voiced.

Name a game you aren't doing that? Almost every RPG game boils down to kill x or collect x.

Not really. While there is combat and loot in almost all RPGs, most quests are not "get X drops from mob A" or "kill Y of mob B" or "Interact with Z of world item C".

Let's go waaaay back to Baldur's Gate (the following is as best as I remember it). You come across a farm. You are asked to kill the Ankegs that have invaded it. Once you kill them they are DEAD and the farm is clear. You don't have to "kill X" because they don't respawn. Instead you are asked to permanently change the game world and so you do that. That's one difference between traditional RPGs and MMOS.

Another would be that the combat systems are vastly different and imho, vastly more rewarding and deep in normal RPGs. There's also a heck of a lot less grind even in the oldest of RPGs, because there's no need to artificially inflate playtime to encourage monthly fees (since there are no monthly fees).

I suppose Z3R01 didn't touch on all this, but I think that's what he was getting at and probably a bit more besides.

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WoW has given me the most epic moments ever in any of the dozens of mmo's i played.

WoW has given me alot of online friends

WoW has set a milestone for any mmo studio that wants to be succesfull

WoW has been and still is King of the Hill since 2005

You may dislike the fantasy theme wow has

You may dislike anything that has to do with WoW

But you must admit that Blizzard has been making epic games in their history, from Rock and Roll racing on the console to Starcraft and the warcraft franchise.

With that said alot of us can agree that since their main developer team left to work on TITAN their whole empire is slowly crumbling down.

They work hard up to WoTLK to grow bigger and bigger but after Arthas died the people seemed to notice how dull and repetitive WoW has become.

We got SWTOR incomming and so far i disliked SWTOR ALOT, but this beta had me turned over 190 degrees.

I did Black Talon with a few American players ( I am from the netherlands) and man what an epic run it was.

That feeling i missed in WoW for many years came back to me in this Beta of SWTOR.

Iam a pessimist <--spelling -_- ? or let me say it this way, you need to be from the best of the best to convince me your worth my money.

Warhammer - Aion - Rift - all failed me and wasnt worth my time.

SWTOR on the other hand can be a new King of the Hill if they play it right and WoW keeps pushing out trash packs.

People are bored to death in WoW, and when you got such a massive playerbase and you come out with the next best thing your going to be HOT :)

Cataclysm + MoP come at the worst posible time for Blizzard, and SW might harvest the fruit in december.

I cannot wait to play SWTOR again, and if you would have asked me this 4 months ago i would almost laugh you to death when you would say SWTOR is a good mmo.

How things can change in such a short time :)

WoW died for me when Cata was released and i was lvl 85 in two weeks. Im a terrbibly slow lvler yet i managed to reach 85 in 2 weeks. Im no raider either and the PvP community is immature and don't know how to play battlegrounds anymore like they used to in the first year of the BG's. I have quit since februari and played some Rift but the community there was terrible so i left after a month again. I played on a RP server and damn the people there where mostly ex WoWers..the same people i wanted to avoid cause beside WoW being boring for me i really hated what had become of the WoW community.

SWToR is more story driven so for me thats great. I can do things at my own speed and no group presure. I didn't do enough quests with my short play time in the beta but the quests seemed nice to okay to me. Depends on the class you play i guess and how far you are in. But everything stands and falls with the community for me. If it are nice people who share their love for the game and want to make it great together it will be awesome (like the first 2 years of WoW). If it becomes a egocentric community that lives only for themselfs and being rude to others (like the last 5 years of WoW and the rift community) then its over for me soon.

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Starwars001,

Most of my friends are moving away from their current MMOs after playing the past few weekends. SWTOR is going to make a shift in the MMO world on who is playing what. It might take some time but eventually SWTOR will be the MMO king.

Don't worry about most people around here, they are more machine than human, twisted and evil.

"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist

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The only thing SWTOR is at this point as far as ultimate goes, is ultimate example of a mediocre mmo that fanboi's will buy just because of the star wars label on it. The players need to stick it to BW to put some actual effort into SWTOR like they normally do with their past games.

The character customization in SWTOR is a joke compared to not only every other mmo out there, but BW's own games they have done. That's just one example, but not going to go on a rant because only time will tell if BW actually reads their feedback and bug reports.

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This thread is so much fun I just have to throw my thoughts on things into it.

First of I dont play WoW.. I played the first few years back in 2004-2005...

I played linage2 back in 2003-2004 before I played WoW, that is how old that game is, It was a fun pvp game though..

I have played EvE since 2006-2011 and Im still playing it....

I have tested countless MMORPG games since I got into the genre, AoC, WAR, Champions online, city of heroes, Guild wars, LOTRO and many more

I think the MAYOR PROBLEM is that you can even compare WoW to SWTOR... You cant compare WoW to EvE or Linage2, they are so diffrent there is no comparison, accept that they are Multiplayer games.. You cant compare WoW to League of legends or world of tanks, those to arnt exacly MMOs but they are total diffrent. Point Im trying to make Why do developers constantly trying to make WoW 2.0? Havent we played the Quest, zone, Raid, tank and spank Mechanics enough by now? Cant they come up with something new and thrilling?

I have personaly given up in the last few years even trying new games, because they play exacly like the old games Iv played before, it gets repetative and boring. And after a few hours you feel like you have done it all before, nothing New nothing exciting just move along... This has been reason that so many mmos have failed, They fail do keep people Interested for more then a few months. Because we have all played the mechanics so many times now we dont want to play it again. And voice overs arnt enough to change the basic mechanics of a game.

This is to all developers in the future, please make something NEW... We are tired of the same old bullshit...