Thursday, December 9, 2010

On December 1, we responded to a story that had been and is still making its way onto a number of blogs and e-mail chains about the TSA screening of a military charter arriving at Indianapolis International Airport from Afghanistan. The unattributed story claims TSA confiscated multi-tools and nail clippers, while all on board were allowed to carry military issued firearms.

After responding, some folks, including the blog that posted the original story, stood by their claims. Well, since the facility is run by the National Guard, we went to them and received the following quote.

“TSA does not have personnel or conduct any screening in the facility where military charters are processed at Indianapolis International Airport.”

Hey BB, I seem to recall a post from you earlier which stated that while airports can hire private security instead of TSA, they must follow ALL TSA rules. Is this not the case now?

So while the agent who confiscated the nail-clippers from the assault rifle toting solider wasn't a TSO, he/she was trained under TSA guidelines. Or is it that private security can deviate from TSA guidelines? Is there something wrong with my logic here?

Other soldiers confirmed that that sort of thing happens. On the original article page, scroll down to read the comments. You'll see things like:

Went through same thingKudzu Thursday, November 18th at 11:29PM EST (link)

In 2005 when we deployed via charter flight out of Hawaii. TSA told us we had to check bag our knives but then it got better. With our rifles we had to remove the firing pin (most removed the bolt carrying group) even though we had no ammo....

and like:

I can verify this story tootadams1138 Friday, November 19th at 9:38AM EST (link)

Almost the exact same thing happened to us in 2005 going out of the US heading to Iraq. In my recollection, we made everyone with anything sharp (K-bars, bayonets, leathermans, etc) into one sea bag for the company....

and:

I beg to differ with you, bub. As a former Soldier I can identify with the story. I was coming back from Korea just after 9/11 and I had a tiny hem remover confiscated from my uniform sewing repair kit. It was maybe an inch long with a small hook on the end of it. The customs idiot actually stood there and “demonstrated” its lethality by jabbing himself in the finger to show me how it could be “used” as a weapon.....

SFC Cheryl McElroyUS ARMY (RET)

Are these people lying, too, Bob?

In response to your response, someone said:

Here's What I saidrvail136 Wednesday, December 1st at 5:37PM EST (link)...My brother came back from Afghanistan last summmer. He is an officer in the USA (regular, not reserve) and was carrying both an CAR4 as well as a 44mag revolver (no one is going to tell him he can’t carry it)…and had nail clippers confiscated. Bob, you’re a liar, or utterly misinformed about what your TSA thugs are actually doing....

This pic shows "Indiana Army National Guard Soldiers with the 76th Infantry Brigade Combat Team march into the Col. H. Weir Cook Terminal civic plaza at the Indianapolis International Airport on Nov. 12."

The Col. H. Weir Cook Terminal civic plaza is a "midfield passenger terminal" that "contains up to 44 domestic gate positions and 2 international gates".

It is NOT a "remote transit terminal" as you claim. And yet, there are soldiers there. Hmmm.

You keep coming up with these weaselly statements that never actually come out and say "Soldiers are not screened when returning". You've said that it's not policy to take nail clippers (except for a lot of things that look like nail clippers to anyone else) however the counter-evidence is overwhelming that TSO's do routinely take nail clippers.

Now, we have a statement from a National Guard PR person that the TSA doesn't do screening at Indianapolis. That's not saying that no one does screening as such. Did another agency search these returning soldiers and confiscate their nail clippers? Why is the National Guard the final say on the Indianapolis airport?

Anonymous said...Sadly, no matter what you say most of the public will refuse to believe you. They only want to believe the worst of the government.December 9, 2010 9:26 PM -------------------------It’s truly unfortunate, because they are choosing to ignore the truth. But hey… that’s their choice. If they don’t want to believe, I can’t make them. I can only continue to offer the facts. -------------------------Anonymous said...Hey BB, I seem to recall a post from you earlier which stated that while airports can hire private security instead of TSA, they must follow ALL TSA rules. Is this not the case now? So while the agent who confiscated the nail-clippers from the assault rifle toting solider wasn't a TSO, he/she was trained under TSA guidelines. Or is it that private security can deviate from TSA guidelines? Is there something wrong with my logic here? December 9, 2010 11:25 PM -------------------------This is not a private security company. This facility is run by the Indiana National Guard. My point is, if somebody truly took nail clippers from soldiers at this facility, they were not employed by the TSA.-------------------------Anonymous said...We know DHS takes precedence over DoD, so why should we believe that Director Gardner isn't just echoing whatever the heck you told him to? Or that he even exists. December 10, 2010 1:09 AM -------------------------I think if you did a little Googling, you could find who is in charge of public affairs for the Indiana National Guard. If you’re not going to believe us, or them, I don’t know why you’re looking to us for an answer. -------------------------Anonymous said...Now, we have a statement from a National Guard PR person that the TSA doesn't do screening at Indianapolis. That's not saying that no one does screening as such. Did another agency search these returning soldiers and confiscate their nail clippers? Why is the National Guard the final say on the Indianapolis airport? December 10, 2010 7:44 AM -------------------------As I stated earlier, this is not a private security company. This facility is run by the Indiana National Guard. My point is, if somebody truly took nail clippers from soldiers at this facility, they were not employed by the TSA.

Saying that any nail-clipper-confiscating screener was not actually employed by the TSA seems like a non-answer. Aren't screeners trained to adhere to TSA guidelines in matters of security? I would think that the Federal government would insist upon that, given the clear necessity for, and effectiveness of, TSA procedures in identifying the terrorists among us.

Bob said "My point is, if somebody truly took nail clippers from soldiers at this facility, they were not employed by the TSA."

So you are indeed playing with words. They were simply following TSA policies. Maybe his or her paycheck didn't come from the TSA, but he or she was following YOUR policies.

I'm perfectly OK if this story continues to get posted because in the eyes of the public, and my eyes, anyone affected by policies created by the TSA can only blame the TSA, regardless of who is executing them.

Your department is an utter embarrassment and you should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Anonymous said...Saying that any nail-clipper-confiscating screener was not actually employed by the TSA seems like a non-answer. Aren't screeners trained to adhere to TSA guidelines in matters of security? I would think that the Federal government would insist upon that, given the clear necessity for, and effectiveness of, TSA procedures in identifying the terrorists among us. December 10, 2010 11:32 AM-------------------------TSA Regulated screeners do not work in the facility. It is run by the National Guard. -------------------------Anonymous said...So you are indeed playing with words. They were simply following TSA policies. Maybe his or her paycheck didn't come from the TSA, but he or she was following YOUR policies. I'm perfectly OK if this story continues to get posted because in the eyes of the public, and my eyes, anyone affected by policies created by the TSA can only blame the TSA, regardless of who is executing them. Your department is an utter embarrassment and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. December 10, 2010 12:22 PM--------------------------TSA Regulated screeners do not work in the facility. It is run by the National Guard. -------------------------- Mike E said...I look forward to an "Updated TSA response" regarding the lady who was locked in a glass cage for an hour while the TSA supervisor(!) tried to comprehend the rules she had helpfully provided. December 10, 2010 12:47 PM--------------------------I responded to this on 12/7.--------------------------Red Bane said...Bob,really looking forward to seeing your next equivocal post surrounding the outrageous treatment of the Indian Diplomat. This blog is better than youtube!December 10, 2010 1:18 PM--------------------------I have asked for more details on this.--------------------------

Not really sure what the deal is with all the incendiary comments on here, but I guess this a good place to air differences, so here goes.First of all, I have traveled back and forth to theaters overseas, I can't remember how many times. Security is tight, and, get this. It is never the same. By design. It's called making yourself a hard target. Variate behavior to diminish the enemy's ability to recognize habitual patterns.I'm not suggesting that is what TSA is doing. I'm just saying that's what the military does, and we deal with it, live with it. Because it's the smart thing to do. Google it up. It is much more than American travelers endure.Compliance with security measures is a challenge no doubt. I encourage you to help one another. Help me if I need it and I'll help you. But most of all, help TSA keep us all safe. The threat as we all know, is real. None of us can do our jobs unless TSOs first do theirs, get us to where we need to go.As for the so-called Indianapolis incident... didn't happen. Although it may ring true, there are some major flaws in the story, but I'm not going to share those, because that would be divulging far too much about a secure facility.I will tell you this. I have gotten to know the security folks at that facility, and they are great folks, fellow Hoosiers who have a great respect for soldiers. I know that because they tell us that all the time. They are friendly, professional and great patriots whose only concern is the safety and security of the soldiers they serve.And I'll go ahead and sign this, unlike the author of the provocative piece that seemed to be about nothing more than driving a wedge between organizations charged with the same mission, your safety and security.Staff Sgt. Les NewportIndiana National GuardGoogle me up!

Extremely similar stories are common, even if this one isn't true. Coming back from Iraq in 2006, I distinctly remember giving up a lot of hygiene products before beginning our journey back to the land of the free. With our weapons.

Let's remember the bigger picture, although it is incontestable that the TSA HAS taken people's nail clippers, that is a very small matter. What is NOT a small matter, is that the government/TSA is TAKING AWAY OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS, INCLUDING THE 4th AMENDMENT!!

If Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were alive today, they would OPPOSE what the TSA and the Feds are doing.

"Variate?!" lol - again, who are we trying to deny the ability to recognize patterns?

"It is much more than American travelers endure."

For aircraft screening? Not in my experience, not by a large margin. I'm Navy and I fly but these comment - if they are intended to relate to screening of military personnel - could not be further from my experience.

BTW - 23 years and counting, active and reserve, and I didn't spend it so that government agencies could administratively eliminate American freedom, replacing rights with "privileges."

Wow, every time Bob refutes this story in some new detailed way, all you wacky TSA hating conspiracy nuts come unglued a little bit further.I'm in the Army, and I have been on those planes chartered by the military, both coming and going, and I have never seen a TSA agent anywhere near where we left from or where we arrived at.You people are the reason why we cannot have a civilized dialogue on an issue such as this!

anon said:"If Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were alive today, they would OPPOSE what the TSA and the Feds are doing."please tell me how you and the others on here that state the same thing can be sure of this? the political environment of the late 18th century and that of today are in different universes. today these gentlemen would probably be following what ever their lobbyists want them to do just like the current legislation. it is the political system that all americans have estiblished and allow...

It's a shame that these brave soldiers are fighting for our freedoms and they come home to America only to have their freedoms taken away from them. 4th Amendment anyone? anyone? Do they even teach that in school anymore? What's the Constitution?

My aunt just returned from a trip to Denver. She was pulled aside and made to go through the new AIT screening. After going through that, she was also questioned as to her purpose of her trip (going home), how long she had lived there (many years) and why she had come to Denver. I feel this is completely out of line. We still live in America and have the freedom to travel between states without having to "show papers" or "prove residency" or have we now lost that freedom too?

I do not think this happened. I'm not sure how to verify the person who came out with.

I was in the Navy for six years and the Army for three years. Don't recall much security for Sailors or Soldiers. I think TSA is far more thorough in their screening. Then again you probably aren't going to have many terrorists try to board a plan in BDUs. I'm not sure where the Sgt has been but I've never gone through any security flying then TSA.

That being said I don't agree with the scanners or the searches (come on their not "pat" downs). I do see it as a fouth amendment issue.

I also don't know what the founding fathers would have thought about it. I'm sure some federalists would have supported it. But then again it is a gross violation.

The only thing TSA has going for it with all this excessive screening is that it can call on national security. Of course we can never see the intellegence they have or say they have. It's a stacked deck. Really the courts need to decide this. If they find in favor of it kiss your freedom good bye. The government will be able to use national security to justify every time they take away your rights.

Can someone tell me how to get an actual response from the TSA? I sent an email to Tsa-ContactCenter@dhs.gov a month ago and got a generic reply back today that has nothing to do with my question. I don't think any of the emails sent are actually read!

"...Anonymous said...Can someone tell me how to get an actual response from the TSA..."

Join the club. I tried to contact on multiple ocassions when I ended up with a burn from that "safe swab" as I was pulled, infront of everyone with bags left unattended, simply for the crime of wearing a brace. I set nothing off, it wasn't hidden. There was no reason for me to be pulled out.

The burn lasted 4 days and I wanted answers, as I don't break out or get skin burns from dry gauze.

That was in July.....Still waiting......Good thing I wasn't severly injured.

Please rest assured that proper procedures were followed in your incident. Our always professional and well trained Officers deny the incident took place as you describe becauas it is not policy.

Unfortunatley the video of your incident is not available.

However, the officers in charge have been retrained.

Regards,TSA

LOL!

December 17, 2010 8:00 AM

.........While I get the humor and sarcasm in your post it is so close to the truth of how TSA actually responds as to strongly underline a large part of the problem that is TSA.

With as many TSA administrative employees that TSA has on the payroll you would think one of these Einsteins would see the problem and take some action, yet TSA keeps doing the same old thing while expecting a different result.

"If Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin were alive today, they would OPPOSE what the TSA and the Feds are doing."

And they would also be screaming, OH MY GOD, HUMANS HAVE BUILT MACHINES THAT CAN FLY!

They also opposed ending slavery. So maybe all of their ideas weren't so great.

The point is, they couldn't oppose a scenario they could never envision.

p.s. They were referred to as "terrorists" by the crown. Times change. Get used to it. Yes, the country has changed a lot since 1776. We already know that. Guess what, the rest of the world has changed too. We're no longer "free" to own slaves, deny women the right to vote, heck, soon we won't even be "free" to not pay for health insurance if we don't want it.

Try looking forward instead of back. You can't change the past but you can change the future. If you don't like what is happening, either run for office or contact your representatives. Whining about a nail clipper blog certainly isn't going to help, and neither is name-dropping a couple of slave owners who died over 200 years ago.

You know what, Bob? I believe you. Your screeners didn't take away anyone's nailclippers. To take them away, they'd have to find them first. And how could they be expected to find a little nailclipper when they miss 6-inch hunting knives (http://consumerist.com/2010/12/oops-i-made-it-past-the-tsa-screeners-with-a-6-hunting-knife.html) and loaded handguns (http://consumerist.com/2010/12/eagle-eyed-tsa-screeners-dont-notice-loaded-handgun-in-mans-carry-on.html).

As a matter of fact, "A person briefed on the latest tests tells ABC News the failure rate approaches 70 percent at some major airports. Two weeks ago, TSA's new director said every test gun, bomb part or knife got past screeners at some airports."

So, if they're missing all that, there is no way they are finding nailclippers.

Yeah, Bob, the TSA "officers" couldn't take away nail clippers without first being able to find them. And the "officers" are using the scanners and X-ray machines to look for larger things. Like this case:

"“He put the luggage through special machines to see whether there was any explosives or anything of concern in the luggage,”... “When he saw that there was something of value in the luggage, he took out the computers or the games.”"

See, he was looking for laptops and Play Stations to steal. How would he ever notice nail clippers??

This sums it up well. My active duty husband and I (with our infant) are traveling on Monday. Lets see if we get pulled out for screening. This will not go down well with my husband who has actually seen people and fought people who want to harm us, rather than "others" who just wish they had the gumption/selflessness.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2010/12/airport_gun_rightsAnother bad news for you TSA Bob, your job is getting worse and worse."A person briefed on the latest tests tells ABC News the failure rate approaches 70 percent at some major airports. Two weeks ago, TSA's new director said every test gun, bomb part or knife got past screeners at some airports.Please Bob, I really like to know what's the excuse you will explain.

There is only one way to respond to TSA trying to cover up the truth with bald faced lies, quoting the National Guard, who only said they do not screen, and said nothing about TSA screeners, which we are putting on the spot: Liar, liar, pants on fire. Yes, I'm posting with ID and inviting you to come lie to my face if you have the courage, which you obviously will not, trying to hide behind a screen of lies to cover-up your extremely poor job and fear mongering to justify it.

I just read a debunking of this incident from a credible (meaning non-TSA source).

So perhaps in this case the TSA didn't act improperly. Fact is, however, that TSA's habitual overreach and subsequent lying to cover it up has given it and its spokespeople about as much credibility with the US public as the average used car salesman.

Airport security is necessary. TSA's approach to airport security is a sick joke. TSA needs to be disbanded in its entirety and we need to put in place security procedures that actually work while preserving the rights and liberties of the US traveling public and our foreign visitors (who are also protected under the US Constitution).

To be subjected to a search that is every bit as invasive as a criminal entering a prison would receive goes far beyond the basic "administrative search" envisioned when the Supreme Court first allowed airport screening to take place in the 1970s. To tell people they must endure such a search as a condition of moving about the country is a violation of our fundamental right to travel (sure you could take other means to travel such as trains, buses or boats, but at what incremental cost of time and how long will those be immune to TSA's overreach?)

When the TSA stops violating the rights of US Citizens then US Citizens will stop verbally beating up the TSA.

Have a happy holiday season and may everyone at TSA find themselves drawing unemployment in 2011.

To the commenter re: eyeglass repair kit: Thanks! I found this propaganda page while trying to find out if I could bring mine in a carry-on. I guess not.

Funny thing: last time I flew, I FIXED THE EYEGLASSES OF A SHUTTLE BUS DRIVER using my repair kit, kept in my backpack. Ask a TSA agent for that kind of help and they'll laugh at you.

Tactically, you *might* be able to make a 1" deep, 1/12" wide hole in someone with the screwdriver, if you have a very strong grip. A ball point pen is capable of more and those are allowed. Don't forget they sell all sorts of trinkets inside the airport that could be used as weapons... but don't tell the TSA you know this or airports will no longer be able to have shops for their customers. What a joke.