At the same time posts like this one are so sophomoric in their understanding of women's safety.

We want women to be safe and feel safe anywhere they go. To say rape has nothing to do with fashion misses the point that certain types of fashion attract certain types of rapists. If you can't be honest with yourself and the world by admitting this, then frankly you're doing more harm than good for women.

It's like the statistics on those child beauty pageants. The fact that a portion of the viewership it attracts are child abusers, predators and pedophiles shouldn't surprise anyone. To talk about it doesn't make you some ancient misogynistic out-dated relic either. To not want your own children to participate or be at those conventions or shows does not make you a narrow minded horrible parent.

Fire exited 100 years ago, and fire existed 10,000 years ago. But dousing yourself in gasoline and smoking is also a fucking terrible idea.

Expecting society to somehow get criminals to change their behavior is a losing proposition because many of these issues are not cultural as much as psychological. In the most liberal utopian society you will still find pedophiles, murders and rapists. If anyone wants to act like an idiot and say, "I should be able to walk through any back alley wearing anything I want at any hour" is fine, just don't blame society when some lunatic attacks you. Because ultimately, mental illness doesn't give a shit about your internal monologue about equality and rights.

Wearing what you want yet also being cautious and careful are not conflicting thoughts.

I'd bet that when raped by a stranger it has a lot more to do with where you are and who you're with than what you're wearing. I think clothing affecting a potential rapist is a myth. I think rapists are looking for opportunity and availability when hunting for a victim. Clothes dont affect that. Being alone and being under the influence probably put you more at risk but unless your clothes are so baggy they conceal your gender I dont think it makes a difference.

Actually - there's been work done that say women carrying purse get attack more then women without purse. Women with longer hair get attack more frequently then women with short hair. I know there's similar ties into things like coats, skirts, pants, shorts. I know women in heels tend to get attack more than women in flats

I think rapists are looking for opportunity and availability when hunting for a victim. Clothes dont affect that -It depends on the rapist and the situation. they can impact that but it's not a generality. it a case by case basis.

Something to consider - Having been abroad - i was groped when i was out almost nightly when i wore a skirt out...it wasn't even a miniskirt. I wore jeans the next time no problems. I talked to a few locals who explained to me that skirt is code for wanting sex - and you'll get grabbed if you do that. I was in a VERY PROGRESSIVE country on women's issues as well .

The “What Were You Wearing?” exhibit shows what rape victims were wearing when attacked. It’s morbidly neat and fascinating, and disturbingly doesn’t seem to trend towards anything that could be considered “revealing.”

you are confusing rape with sexual harassment. of course if a woman is dressed provocitavly, they are going to get more attention. that attention can come in the form of lust, jealousy, or resentment sure, and it may lead to harassment, or even some assault (groping)

​

but rape... like real ass rape. where someone forcibly gets access to an orifice and puts something inside of it without the womans express consent is so far out of the realm of how normal humans treat each other that no, how a woman dresses cannot possibly be the trigger point.

​

if you have a wife or daughter or girlfriend or mom or whatever and you are concerned about them being harassed for their clothing, yeah sure, I get that. But conflating that harasment with RAPE is at best naive and more importantly, is a perpetuation of errant thinking which muddies the waters on this issue and slows down any progress we make.

To say rape has nothing to do with fashion misses the point that certain types of fashion attract certain types of rapists. If you can't be honest with yourself and the world by admitting this, then frankly you're doing more harm than good for women.

Being honest with myself, I don't believe there are statistics that back this up. This is a myth that sounds plausible on the surface, but there is no actual evidence that it is true. In fact, I'm pretty sure there's more evidence to the contrary if we look at actual studies on the topic.

From a fact-based perspective, there's no evidence correlating how women dress to rape risk. You're just talking in circles here. To quote your own post: "posts like this one are so sophomoric in their understanding of women's safety."

These changing rates are part of a culture in which everyone, including all men, and I mean all men (not just rapists/potential rapists) participate. Which is a fact that gets lost in the whole #notallmen thing (one of the biggest whooshes of our time).

Statistics on rape and other sexual assaults are commonly available in industrialized countries, and are becoming more common throughout the world. Inconsistent definitions of rape, different rates of reporting, recording, prosecution and conviction for rape create controversial statistical disparities, and lead to accusations that many rape statistics are unreliable or misleading. In some jurisdictions, male-female rape is the only form of rape counted in the statistics. Countries may not define forced sex on a spouse as "rape". Rape is a severely under-reported crime with surveys showing dark figures of up to 91.6% of rapes going unreported. Prevalence of reasons for not reporting rape differ across countries. They may include fear of retaliation, uncertainty about whether a crime was committed or if the offender intended harm, not wanting others to know about the rape, not wanting the offender to get in trouble, fear of prosecution (e.g. due to laws against premarital sex), and doubt in local law enforcement.

Please don't go espousing such an unrealistic idea. Women should not feel safe "anywhere they go." Neither should men. It's just irresponsible to say such things. It would be nice if we could all feel safe in every situation. The problem with that is we live in the real world. All we can do is do a little better each year, which is what we are doing.

I don’t believe clothing affects the likelihood to be raped, I do however believe that it affects the likelihood of a woman being touched, harassed etc at a club or the like. The “look what she’s wearing she must want it” sounds like drunk people logic to me.

Still not right but as you say it’s better to be realistic abd teach women what to do abd not to do to be as safe as possible than to go “do what you want” abd expect people to suddenly all be good.

Every single person I've brought it up with that thinks woman should not be half naked to reduce their personal risk of rape is not doing it to reduce the risk of rape as a whole, but to reduce the individuals risk of rape.

No matter how much you try to justify it, YOU CAN'T STOP SOCIOPATHS EXISTING WITH EDUCATION. These people will rape, every time a person says "you should have worn less revealing clothing" it's exactly the same advice as anyone who tells you not to flaunt all your money. Advice to protect you individually when being viewed as a target by these people against the general population.

Tell people not to steal! Don't victim blame the person waving around $300,000... utter nonsense.

Gotta love how you're trying to be caring about people and anti rape and then say rape is only a thing men do, because women don't rape women, and that women can't rape men. That is probably the most depressing thing I've seen on Reddit today, watch this.

It is irresponsible to make a false equation in terms of the most likely perpetrators. Having said that, other men are most likely to be murdered. Women are more likely to be seriously injured or killed by spouses by a wide margin. Male victims of sexual assault are not treated seriously. Women are more likely to see a perpetrator go free.

Statistics are available for those who look. I have rarely seen a post that actually addresses the hard truth. It just makes people uncomfortable.

So by that logic it is irresponsible to not say that because half of all violent crime is commited by african american males that make up 15 percent of the population that we should watch out for black people? Everyone can be a criminal, and if you start looking at people by what crime they are most likely to commit, you start to become sexist and racist in a hurry. Do i go to a woman police officer because she is more likely to be less abrasive, do i hire a male accountant because women are more likely to commit fraud or forgery? If i am walking down the street and a black male is walking towards me should i walk the other way. The only truth that is out there is that stupid people do stupid things. If a woman is raped by another woman the last thing she will be thinking about is “wow, i can’t believe it wasn’t a man”. There will always be people out looking to do harm to others, and it is much more irresponsible to look at what others might do because of their gender or race, than it is to assume that anyone is capable of violence and to be vigilant because of that fact alone.

Kind of a sexist thing to say women are incapable of rape, wouldn't you say? Rapists come in every colour, shape, and size; it has nothing to do with sex but with power, it's about someone in a position to abuse another. Sure the proportion is not the same, that is undeniable, but being an abusive person has nothing to do with your chromosomes.

I agree, I think rape is horrible but I don't like how people say men get raped less, if you go back in time when rape was barely a concept and only about 10% of women came out and said they were raped, those statistics would be very different than today, and like today the idea of men being raped seems unfathomably, which makes me think barely any men speak up about being raped, here's a video on why I think this.

Mental health is the answer, upbringing is the answer, society is the answer. Gender is not an answer.

Yes. Statistically men may abuse more, and they can because they're physically much stronger. Doesn't mean you gotta pin it on the gender rather than the apparently invisible-to-everyone elephant in the room.

My sister was assaulted while in college. She was wearing a loose blousy shirt, and dress slacks.

My cousin was assaulted at a different college. She was wearing jeans and a hoodie.

My ex went into the navy, and was gang-raped by a bunch of marines after turning down one of their advances. She was just off duty and in regulation attire. They almost killed her. She was in the hospital for weeks with liver damage from the beating they gave her.

A friend was walking from a convenience store back to her motel room while trying to find a place to live. She had her 11-year-old special needs
daughter with her. She was wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and a jacket. A relative of the motel proprietor accosted her, pinned her to the wall outside her room, and groped her hard enough to leave bruises while her daughter shrieked and cried.

I was raped when I was 9, at a summer camp. I was not dressing provocatively (I'm male). I was shy, retiring, and hated attention. There were two counselors in my cabin. Both participated. I was not alone; on top of that, they made us do things to each other. We were physically tortured, too; imagine having to stand on tip-toes, with an ear or a nostril hooked over a maple syrup hook in a tree trunk, as every facial orifice is filled with shaving cream.

I can buy "sick." Seriously. I have mental health issues now (shockingly) and, while I'm not a predator... If I was, as "strongly" as I am what I am? I don't know how I'd deal with it. I'd probably have given in, at some point, and then hurt myself for it, then felt sorry for myself, and given in again, etc. I like to hope not, but I know I shouldn't do the things I do (to myself) now, and I do them anyway.

So, yes, I can buy "mental illness" and "we need to improve our healthcare system." I can also buy "financial stress is lethal; we need to close the wage gap, and stop pouring 90% of everything into billionaires' pockets."

What I can't buy is blaming the victim. Those fuckers can go to Hell. I did nothing to deserve what happened to me. None of the people I've known, who have been through things like that, did anything to invite such vile behavior.

Edit: Sans myself, I know what they were all wearing because they were all presumptuously given shit for that reason, by one person or another, to the point where it started coming out as a pre-emptive defense whenever the subject came up. Victim-blamers can rot.

Agreed. Thankfully rape is being taken more seriously (even though not enough) this generation compared to the past. I mean if you watch some old movies, you can see how common "No means yes" sexual scenes were. Purely disgusting movies in my opinion. Rape should never ever be seen as something normal.

Has nothing to do with fashion, but has to do with choices. If you are so drunk that you cannot make good decisions, and you don't take the necessary precautions, you share the blame. This goes for things other than rape, and it includes all genders. You get mugged because you are passed out in some alley, 50% your fault. You get raped when you let some guy you've just met take you somewhere alone, 50% your fault. So on and so forth, into infinity. Personal responsibility seems to have become optional, but its not.

Not really, no. The picture above was referencing the tired idea that women that dress a certain way are “asking” to be raped.

Now, is “rape culture” a thing? I don’t really know what a “rape culture” is. It sounds a little to extreme. Do we in America have a poor track record when it comes to sexual education, and especially teaching the importance of consent? Yes, I think that’s a major problem.

But I don’t think that as a culture there is anything remotely accepting of rape. Rape is bad, rapists are always seen as bad. There is simply a major gap in education and understanding of rape that leads to a lack of sympathy for the victim

So what's acceptable clothing to lower one's risk? A long loose fitting dress? Are pants acceptable? But not too tight right? What about a T-shirt? Or should our arms be covered?

What one person finds acceptable, another will not. Look at all of the ridiculous clothing standards for Women based on just different sects of Christianity alone. Women aren't more likely to be raped wearing more revealing clothing. That is statistically untrue. Enforcing this notion is just another way to control women, "for their safety." Look at the Middle East. Do we want that? No, no we don't.

Maybe more accurately you could ask if some certain women are higher risk for being raped, and although the rapist is 100% to blame, should women, if they feel the need, attempt to lower their risk in certain settings.

I can be walking with the complete right of way across the street, and a car can still hit me and kill me. So I still look both ways. Because even if I’m in the right, I still have to live with the consequences.

I’m being Devils advocate here. And I’m a male. I’m just saying women should take whatever steps necessary to give themselves the best chance of being safe. The world is not just or fair

The question that I’ll use to counter your devil’s advocate is those: where do you draw the line? Should women never go anywhere alone? Should they wear a burka? The irony is that the country that says yes to both of those questions - Afghanistan- is also the one where women are most likely to be raped in the entire world, with close to 100% of women being subject to rape, sexual assault, or underage arranged marriage. The countries where women are the least likely to be raped are the ones that have fully nude mixed-gender beaches. So what steps do women need to take, in your opinion, to keep themselves safe? If burkas and male escorts aren’t enough, what is?

Maybe someday the world will be perfect. Until then, people should take whatever steps they need to do they aren’t beaten or raped. It’s not fair, but before we start telling women to walk thru Central Park naked, let’s accept the world we live in while we continue to try to change it

Clothes definitely have a role in making you a victim of rape. You don't actually think that a guy would just ignore your presence while you're wearing a pretty revealing dress or if your clothes are tightly wrapped around your body, do you ?

Women get raped wearing pretty much anything. Shorts and a t shirt? Asking for it apparently. Marching band uniform? Uh oh looks like it was inevitable. There is an exhibit called “What Were You Wearing?” that displays the clothes rape victims were wearing when attacked. It’s really disturbing to see there’s no real “skimpy” or “tight” clothes. Just normal street stuff literally anybody could wear.

The problem isn’t clothes, people should really be able to wear whatever they want. The problem is that some men and women take sexual advantage of others in the most disgusting way imaginable.

Im not saying that clothes define that you'll be rape , im saying that it plays a role in making you a victim of rape. It doesn't have to necessarily be the clothes that attracts rapists but there's a probability that what you're wearing would attract a certain kind of people

If that were true statistically we'd see more rapes happen to women wearing skimpy clothing, but that simply isn't the case. Harassment, yeah maybe but rape is one usually done by someone you know and two if it's out on the street the perp is waiting for an opportunity, not waiting for Jessica Rabbit to walk by.

Interviews with convicted rapists show that women wearing more conservative attire are more likely to be a target, because they are perceived as less likely to put up a fight. So, yes, what you're wearing does have some impact on one's likelihood of being raped, but not in the way you think.

Like I said, (and this is obviously based on what I think, to the person who asked if I'm basing this off of a stats or my own fantasies, im basing this on my own logic) I just thought that clothes would somehow plays a role in making you a victim of rape but I guess im wrong.

And im probably thinking of harassment rather than an actual rape situation, so yeah my bad there too.

I just thought that what you wear actually plays a role in this kind of situation, but i guess, that's not how it works. But it could be like a motivation kinda thing right ? I mean if A saw B in a really sexy attire, then A have this urge to like do something to B , that could possibly happen right ? Or is that wrong too ?

As a male that has been assaulted, I both agree and disagree. Yeah, clothes don’t matter in general wig situations like this (can attest to that), but they do when the POS is convinced that you wore that outfit cuz you’re feeling a bit frisky and want to get it on ASAP (can also attest to that).

Humans evolved away from rape. That's why we pair off and why almost every society in the world condemns it. That's a form of evolution. In this sense, evolution is in direct conflict with biology. Pretty sure it is a fight that absolutely can be won with the right mix of nanny state, AI, robotics and possibly eugenics (breeding out whatever traits makes people more apt to rape). The question is whether or not we want to subject ourselves to that. Probably not.

As much as I agree with this sentiment, the reasoning behind it is not there.

A) Rapists exist a long time ago
B) Rapists exist now
C) Fashion is not the cause of rapists

The conclusion (C) doesn’t not follow from the two supporting arguments (A and B). This makes the argument seem weak.

A better argument would be made if they actually referenced some type of data about amount of reported (and maybe unreported) cases of rape. Probably over only a couple decades since there is less data farther back you go.

Or really if they did some research about the topic instead of assuming that something is true because they believe in it.