I dont understand why people that voice disapproval for ''illegals" entering the country are met with stuff like thats unamerican or you want to
isolate America from the rest of the world. My ancestors came to this counrty legally learned the language and hundreds of thousands of people do this
every year even today.

Some people think all illegals come here just looking for jobs and most of them are but not all of them. People should look how many illegals are
California jails right now for violent crimes murder,rape,robbery, ect . These people may be a minority in the whole but when your dealing with
10million plus people that minority is a whole lot of people.

Ask someone that lives in a southern border state what is really going on.

So should we let all the murders,drug dealers,rapist into the country too?
If you say ofcourse not that would be crazy, well its not going to happen without a secure border.

Im all for legal immigration, guest worker programs the whole 9 yards. But to have any order it needs to be secure first.

Originally posted by donguillermo
My understanding is that attempts are being made in California to allow them to vote in local, and possibly state elections.

That's more than just a scary thought; that's unconstitutional. And it's ethically wrong. If I moved to Mexico illegally and lived
there, do you think they'd let me vote in local & state elections there? Don't bet on it.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Some people think all illegals come here just looking for jobs and most of them are but not all of them... So should we let all the murders,drug
dealers,rapist into the country too?

Well, most of the the educated Mexicans with good jobs are not coming over; after all, they've got jobs and can make a living in their own country.
The U.S. gets the socioeconomic "leftovers" from Mexico, so to speak. Mexico is taking advantage of these serious lapses in U.S. judgement,
encouraging Mexicans to enter the U.S. illegally so that we can be forced to pay the bill for what should be Mexico's welfare recipients...

Umm the US and Canadian border is the longest undefended border in the world. Think about that for a sec...

Exactly. Another reason we should shut it down. Seeing how Canada freely gives assylum to known terrorists, its about time we did something about it.

Ive said it before, and Ill say it again: the best solution here is to bring all those troops home from Iraq, and every troop stationed abroad.
Instead of occupying other countries that have no benefit for us, they need to be along the borders patroling, and preventing crap like this.

You know what makes me ill?
It is holier than though, uneducated Americans who blame their own god damn problems on everybody else. How stereotypically inept!

Seems to me that I recall back on September 11, one of your dedicated public servants (read crooked corrupt politicians) stated that the evil
terrorists all allegedly came into the US via a ferry from Canada. I also seem to recall that this turned out to be utter horsesh**.

Same thing happened with the mad cow scare and the blackout, just to give you a few more to chew on.

By the way, do you honestly think the US economy and everyone confined within its barbed wire borders would survive for more than a week if the
Mexican and/or Canadian borders were closed? Who do you think the US' largest trading partner is?

No 'terrorist' has come from Canada and committed an act on US soil.
You have far more compelling problems of your own. We aren't the ones that continually put 'terrorists' in the White House, are we?

Don't forget - you import more natural resources, consume more natural resources and pollute moreso than any other industrialized nation on the
planet. This goes hand in hand with having literally none of your own resources left. So what are you talking about?

You need to occupy these resource rich 'SOVEREIGN' nations to keep your economy and your country running.

By the way, do you know from which country the US imports most of its oil and natural gas? Hint: It isn't Saudia Arabia.

I never would have suspected any issues with Canada. Perhaps it is location that has created a sense of naivety. Don't Know. However, Mexico is a
different ballgame altogether it would seem. We are not getting massive amounts of criminals from Canada, however we are from Mexico. There is
legislation being adopted by some of the southern border states that will make everything bi-lingual. I really think our country has taken it on the
chin a bit too much as of the past 20 years. The voting issue in California makes me green and ill. It is not right on so many levels. It also makes
pause to wonder, would it only be those illegals who have not commited any other offenses since their *extended* visit?

How on Earth are these people going to survive as the U.S. becomes more and more reliant on Information Technology and Automation? I get the distinct
feeling (empathy perhaps?) that many illegals are unaware of it, or simply think that it won't effect them, since 'things like that just don't
happen in their part of the everyday life'. The only kind of adaptation I can see that will allow them to function in that manner, would be
supporting the education that their country should be giving them, which is of course, next to nothing at the moment, thus we get to help them adapt
as well. jeez!

It would be nice to have a leader that would put his foot down with Mr Fox on these issues.

I however, applaud the fact that the U.S./Canada border is the largest undefended border in the world. It is a reflection of mutual trust and
diplomacy. If only it would work so well in other places too.

Would like to extend and add on to Cryss' commentary. Alot of the *illegals* that have crossed over from Mexico into the US,(at least the ones I
have met personally) don't look for the type of work, that involves information technology.
They look for jobs, mainly that don't require much paperwork in general,(construction, gas stations, landscaping, etc.) that pay in cash. They look
for jobs through connections with friends that help them, and get paid well enough to support themselves and their growing "familias." I see them
all the time, mowing and edging lawns, getting paid half of what the contractors get paid. They subcontract out the work, and get cheap labor. That
is what these people are to them. Cheap Labor. And Labor jobs is all they seem to look for.
They are good people, generally, amiable, but clichish. They stick together with their Mexican friends, parties, loud Mexican country music or Latino
bands of continual support. How are they to survive the technology or advances thereof? They don't progress, they lay low, until they can feasibly
get their papers or they don't care about it. Unfortunately, I have asked many of them about it, and they don't care. That is the truth. They
care about their families alone, and that's that.

Originally posted by Jazzerman
AntiPolitrix....I stand by what I said. I do not think we should close our borders to Mexico either. I dont have the faintest clue why you thought I
did not read that?

Anyhow, don't you believe that your freedom within the country will be limited as well? If you return from say Mexico, you will be questioned and
interrogated. Plus, I dont want to live somewhere where people that enter our country are guilty before being proved innocent. If that happens you
might as well kiss your freedoms goodbye.

Anyone realize that closing borders was one the signs of the rising Nazi party?

One big difference, i would like to close the borders for protection not suclusion. Hitler wanted to close off the outside world to brainwash the
Germans into thinking the Jews were sub-human and everyone that wasn't the "Perfect Race" should be killed. BIG Difference, we are trying to keep
the Amerian public safe from illegals bringing drugs and guns to America. And then the Mexican Army is providing cover fire to illegal drug smugglers
running back to Mexico. Wake up Jazzerman, i don't know where you live but down here in Texas they are all over the place like roaches. Don't try
bringing up the Berlin Wall either, that was to keep people in not out.

The only trade it would prevent would be illegal trade -- in drugs and weapons, and sex slaves (unfortunately, yes, there are real cases of this). The
legal trading of goods would continue as usual. Sounds good to me!

I think the problem is even worse than many realize; there are over 10 million people illegally in the U.S. right now, and over 70% of them are
from Mexico (over 90% of them are from Latin America in general; I think the reason for these numbers is obvious -- the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans
prevent mass illegal immigration from Asia, Europe, and Africa, while the U.S. has a land border with Mexico, and thus, Latin America). And the
numbers keep going up. Unlike legal immigrants, illegals here in the U.S. (I don't even like using the term "immigrants" to describe them because
they're breaking the law just by being here; it does a disservice to those who immigrate here legally) have no intention of becoming a part of the
U.S. in either language or culture. In fact, many are openly hostile to the U.S., as people living in southern California can testify.

The "La Raza" ('the race' in Spanish) is a racist movement that has been gaining momentum. It is to Hispanics what the KKK are to white Americans
and the Black Panthers are to black Americans (hate is hate, no matter the source). And worse, within that movement is another movement -- the
"Aztlan" movement. They say on their own websites (sometimes in Spanish, sometimes in English) that they hate whites and blacks, Jews, "European
society" in general, call themselves the "chosen race," and want nothing less than to give the southwestern U.S. back to Mexico. "Aztlan" is
based on lies (history is easy when you make it up) and literally demands that the southwestern U.S. (TX, NM, AZ, CA, UT, CO) be "given back" to
Mexico a la the 1845-1848 Mexican-American War.

I fear that, as the "Aztlan" movement grows, it's only going to be a matter of time before the extremists start resorting to desperate tactics,
like terrorism, to force their ideas out in the open. The U.S. will then have a situation simliar to the Basques in Spain, or Northern Ireland, as a
couple of random examples.

Most people don't realize how serious the situation is. Remember, there are 10 million illegals in the U.S. -- to put that in perspective, there are
18 million New Yorkers, 20 million Texans, and 35 million Californians... Also, 43 of the 50 States have less than 10 million people. What will
be the spark that will start a mini-revolution of sorts that will make the horrific riots of the 1960's look tame in comparison?

The U.S.-Mexico border needs to have a huge wall built across it -- even the Rio Grande part -- now. The only way in or out should be through legal
ports of entry. The U.S. Border Patrol also needs to be increased by a factor of 10 (in resources, manpower, everything). While this problem doesn't
exist at the U.S.-Canada border, that border needs to be closely monitored as well...

[edit on 8/2/2004 by ThunderCloud]

Nice Post, like the majority of these posts. I did not know anything about the "La Raza". That is a real eye opner, going to start watching my back.
That is scary to know that we have 10 million illegals in our country and our government isn't doing enough to stop it or slow it down. I know we
can't stop everybody but mabe we should start stopping SOME of them. You would think after an attack like Sept 11th the US gov would be more open
minded about actualy stopping the flow of illegals into this country.

Originally posted by Romeo
I am continually amazed at the degree of violent solutions offered for Americas problems on this site. So many of the Americans here seem to have
psychopathology I think building a wall is a great idea, to protect those poor b@stards living next to you.

Yea...and thats why 1500 Americans sneak across the border into Mexico EVERYDAY. No Romeo, im not calling for violents, like the violents of the
Mexican Army providing cover fire for Illegal Mexicans running drugs and guns across the border. But Mexicans need to be protected from Americans. I
know alot of Americans who run drugs to Mexico, there is a Huge demand for American drugs in Mexico. Come on Romeo, 10,000,000 illegals running around
in America. Im not sure where you live but that would be problem in anyother country around the world. It only took 19 terrorist to bring down the
WTC on Sept. 11th, i don't even want to think about 100 or 200 terrorist attacking us. It is too easy for these people to get across and we have to,
we need to do SOMETHING about it.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
If america has anything to fear, Its not Mexico. Americn needs to fear its self.

This is a hate thread if you ask me.

SpittingCobra, I do not think that the intent of this thread is hateful. It does demonstrate to what extent people are ready to take in order to
protect themselves. 9/11 and subsequest events have the american people frightened and angry. The when you also consider that much of the world is
expressed a great deal of anti-americanism ( and in some cases rightly so

) It is now becoming a large grassroots belief that maybe america would
be better off closing it's borders, taking care of it's internal issues and basically kiss off the rest of the world.
Note, I am not actually a proponent of this belief, as I think that it will cause more harm than good in the long run.

Originally posted by donguillermo
Do you really think I wasn't aware that the Berlin Wall was built to keep people in??? That has nothing to do with the accuracy of my statements.

Your statement also has NOTHING to do with the original post either. The Berlin Wall was built to keep people in but thats not why we would build a
between US/Mexico. It would be built to protect us from illegals coming IN. I am getting tired of saying that.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
If america has anything to fear, Its not Mexico. Americn needs to fear its self.

This is a hate thread if you ask me.

Hatred towards illegals that come to America to comit crimes like rape, smuggle drugs and guns. It is hard for me to believe, no wait let me edit
that, it is obvious that "spittingcobra" does not live in the Southern states of the US. If he or she did, they would realize that the US does have
a problem, More than 1500 illegals aday. Do you understand? More than 1/2 a million every year. Let me write that out so mabe then you can understand
a lttle easier. 500,000 people enter the US illegaly EVERY YEAR.

And like i said, we found out that it only takes 19 people to bring a nation to its knees but then again if you don't live here you really don't
have a clue.

Sorry i keep repeating the info, it is amazing how many people reply with out reading. If you had read the topic and following replies you would see
we do not want to close off the US from trade, we just want out borders safe.

Originally posted by Kenshiro

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
If america has anything to fear, Its not Mexico. Americn needs to fear its self.

This is a hate thread if you ask me.

SpittingCobra, I do not think that the intent of this thread is hateful. It does demonstrate to what extent people are ready to take in order to
protect themselves. 9/11 and subsequest events have the american people frightened and angry. The when you also consider that much of the world is
expressed a great deal of anti-americanism ( and in some cases rightly so

) It is now becoming a large grassroots belief that maybe america would
be better off closing it's borders, taking care of it's internal issues and basically kiss off the rest of the world.

----AntiPolitrix----
That is not intent either, we don't want to "kiss off the rest of the world". We just want our borders secure, we don't want 1500 illegals a day
or 500,000 illegals a year entering the US. There is too mush at stake.
---------------------

Note, I am not actually a proponent of this belief, as I think that it will cause more harm than good in the long run.

If we were to kiss off the rest of the world we would be in a heap of sh** and thats not what we are talking about.

Originally posted by AntiPolitrix
Sorry i keep repeating the info, it is amazing how many people reply with out reading. If you had read the topic and following replies you would see
we do not want to close off the US from trade, we just want out borders safe.

Originally posted by Kenshiro

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
If america has anything to fear, Its not Mexico. Americn needs to fear its self.

This is a hate thread if you ask me.

SpittingCobra, I do not think that the intent of this thread is hateful. It does demonstrate to what extent people are ready to take in order to
protect themselves. 9/11 and subsequest events have the american people frightened and angry. The when you also consider that much of the world is
expressed a great deal of anti-americanism ( and in some cases rightly so

) It is now becoming a large grassroots belief that maybe america would
be better off closing it's borders, taking care of it's internal issues and basically kiss off the rest of the world.

----AntiPolitrix----
That is not intent either, we don't want to "kiss off the rest of the world". We just want our borders secure, we don't want 1500 illegals a day
or 500,000 illegals a year entering the US. There is too mush at stake.
---------------------

Note, I am not actually a proponent of this belief, as I think that it will cause more harm than good in the long run.

If we were to kiss off the rest of the world we would be in a heap of sh** and thats not what we are talking about.

[edit on 3-8-2004 by AntiPolitrix]

Sorry, I thought that my previous posts made that clear. Agreed, to close off trade will not only hurt other countries but also ourselves (note, we
are not self-sufficient note previous posts. Agreed, there needs to be something done to halt the influx of illegals into the country. Half of a
million per year (as per the last census) is not only stretching our resources (money) but yes as others have posted there has been a marked increase
in crime (verifiable by looking at the statisics released every month.
As to what I said earlier, there is a growing number of people who do beleive that we should shut our borders completely and pull in all of our troops
and to "kiss off the rest of the world" if you look at my post, I was describing this to Spitting Cobra and as I stated, I am not a proponent (read
suppported of this idea.
I apologized if you did not catch this

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