[Discussion] Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

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All along, I've always thought that if teen girls usually dated younger boys, the teen pregnancy rate would be significantly lower. What's a more likely scenario: 1) an 18 year old man pressuring a 16 year old girl to have sex; or, 2) a 14 year old boy pressuring a 16 year old to have sex?

Come on, you know that many more times than not, the boy who gets on the girl's case to lose her virginity is older. Even one year older is substantial, when we're talking a 15 year old girl and 16 year old boy.

It just stands to reason that a boy will feel more confident about putting on the heat to a naïve girl to have sex, if she is younger.

Several years ago, it finally happened: A demographic study came out that verified my suspicions all along: A boy is far more likely to pressure a girl to have sex when she's younger!

Girls say they prefer older boys because they are more mature. Where did they get this idea from, considering that older boys seem to have only one thing on their mind? A boy talking a lot about having intercourse, telling the girl she should lose her virginity, threatening to break up with her if she doesn't - THAT'S maturity?

On the other hand, a boy who openly shows a sincere, genuine interest in an older girl is a boy with self-confidence who doesn't easily follow the crowd. He doesn't care what the herd mentality thinks and is not easily swayed by the foolish opinions of others. Sounds like a pretty mature kid to me. But typically, the girl of his affection will blow him off because he still doesn't need to shave, or doesn't have a driver's license. Now THAT'S immaturity on the part of the girl.

That older boy, with his gleaming car and part-time job, has more appeal to her. But a car and money don't mean he's mature and responsible!

If your 15 year old daughter has a crush on a 13 year old boy, don't fret! So what if he's only 5-2! In a few years he could be six feet. Would you rather that your daughter do what all the other girls her age are doing - going after the college boys?

Suppose you speak to 1,000 teen girls who had out-of-wedlock pregnancies. Now honestly, what percentage do you think got pregnant by younger boys? Be honest. You know doggone well you'd name a very, very, very low percentage.

Now, that 14 year old boy may be on course to becoming a very horny, pushy 17 year old. But like I said, it's logical to conclude that a 14 year old boy who approaches a 16 or 17 year old girl is a boy who feels very sure of himself, perhaps thinks on a very mature level, and isn't intimidated by what his peers might think. I can easily see him developing into a trustworthy, sensitive and respectful young man.

Lastly, when a teen girl is in an abusive relationship, what are the odds that the boy is younger, and I don't mean two months younger, but rather, she's 17, he's 15; or she's 16, he's 14, or she's 14, and he's 13? You know the answer.

So straight girls evaluate males Raki in terms of wether he has traits that make him daddy material, like his proving himself as a man to protect Clare, whilst straight boys aren't looking for such traits in other males so they're more likely to remember him as crying when he was first introduced, rather than his manliness which led him to overcome his crying, and they don't tend to notice that he did it for Clare because they aren't checking him out as a mate. If they had the instincts to find a male mate, they'd innately recognise his 'stick around' alpha traits before the timeskip, which we girls did.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

From a literary standpoint Raki is a damsel in distress. He possesses few masculine qualities that typical readers are familiar with.

Originally Posted by faintsmile1992

but straight females tend to have a crush on him both before and after ?

I've never known anyone healthy having a crush on Raki. You might say "some" females have a crush on him but if we're talking about having a crush on ficitional character then that's an entirely different discussion littered with its own landmines.

Originally Posted by faintsmile1992

Women might not want to admit it but when it comes to what they really want in a man it's all about good looks and sex appeal, according to new research.

According to the 2800 women surveyed in the study, honesty, trustworthiness, love, respect, humour and kindness were the most important attributes a man could bring to a relationship.

But further questioning revealed what really mattered the most to them was sexual attraction, good looks, sharing similar interests and masculinity.

D&M research director Derek Jones, who led the study, said the research had come up with some unexpected results.

"What I thought I was going to unearth was the importance of the "bad boy quality" but it didn't really turn out that way," Mr Jones told ninemsn.

"Instead I found that you just can't underestimate the power of sexual attraction and good looks."

The national study, which included women of all ages, found the top five turn offs in a man were dishonesty, anger, arrogance, poor hygiene, and rudeness.

How does any of this tie-in with a manga?

Originally Posted by faintsmile1992

Raki does have the positive aspects of the 'bad boy' quality, he's certainly not a beta. He's an alpha who respects and worships his lady, and his post-timeskip personality traits haven't really changed from before, they've only been nurtured by Isley.

Issue number one is that contrary to what interpretation you may have taken from these findings, Raki does not exhibit any traits of a "bad boy." Not only that but while some women might be attracted to a man who "worships" them, embodying this trait is emasculating for men and more or less irritating for women who value their independence.

Is hot a scientific term? The article does not explain why Raki is hot. The article explains why some researchers believe teenage girls should date younger boys. The entire issue with this ridiculous thread is that you misappropriated, well, everything you posted here. The article is dealing with, you know, actual human beings. Claymore well, it's a comic book. Secondly, this article only has bearing in socially and mentally healthy teenage girls. Most of our Claymores are adult women with social and psychological issues.

Originally Posted by faintsmile1992

So straight girls evaluate males Raki in terms of wether he has traits that make him daddy material, like his proving himself as a man to protect Clare, whilst straight boys aren't looking for such traits in other males so they're more likely to remember him as crying when he was first introduced, rather than his manliness which led him to overcome his crying, and they don't tend to notice that he did it for Clare because they aren't checking him out as a mate. If they had the instincts to find a male mate, they'd innately recognise his 'stick around' alpha traits before the timeskip, which we girls did.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

'Hot' may not be a scientific term, but science shows the traits that attract people to mates of the opposite sex. And as to 'You are aware these studies deal with human men yes?', if you mean what I think you mean then women are attracted to the same things in fictional characters as they are in real life. This is however the interesting bit of what you just wrote.

"Issue number one is that contrary to what interpretation you may have taken from these findings, Raki does not exhibit any traits of a "bad boy." Not only that but while some women might be attracted to a man who "worships" them, embodying this trait is emasculating for men and more or less irritating for women who value their independence."

Zero Phoenix, would you say the medieval courtly knight of medieval literature is a manly alpha, or an emasculated beta? My point was that not all alpha men are 'bad boys', its possible for an alpha to respect women, and Raki is the kind of male the troubadors sang about in northern Iberia and southern France. That's why Raki has an appeal to female Claymore fans on the different forums that most of the male fans don't understand. The first article in particular explains why men and women see Raki differently, so it does have something to do with Claymore. People think Raki changed his personality after the timeskip. He didn't, his personality traits from before the timeskip are still present, he's just got stronger.

(The idea that alphas are bad boys and betas are good is a myth of a media led by beta males and feminists who seek to promote emasculated men and to demonise alphas. And because of the message, many alpha types now feel they have to be bad boys because its expected of them.)

Please keep this thread respectful towards others and decent (non-vulgar) too, or this thread will be closed.

I'm going to be a bit more passive with arguments being made in the posts as this is more of a political debate or discussion. But, if anything offends you, please pm me or report the post, and I'll address it quickly as I can (and let you know that I am looking into it), so please don't respond with a post of your own that will get you into trouble. PM me or report the post if anything offends you, and let me adress it, so you don't get into trouble yourself.

Last edited by HegemonKhan; November 03, 2011 at 09:25 PM.

"The internet’s perfect for all manner of things, but productive discussion ain’t one of them. It provides scant room for debate and infinite opportunities for fruitless point-scoring: the heady combination of perceived anonymity, gestated responses, random heckling and a notional “live audience” quickly conspire to create a “perfect storm” of perpetual bickering." - Charlie Brooker

"I hold the wolf by the ears, I am in a dangerous situation and dare not let go" -an old saying in Latin

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Eh? The spikes in blood pressure in some people in this thread is quite confusing. So the heck what if Raki is more appealing to girls than guys? It's not surprising.

For one, this is a manga about hot blonde women in silver suits jumping around and killing monsters. That's automatically going to shift the manga appeal to more guys than gals (plot's a nice motivator and whatnot, but Claymore's plot isn't the most original or driving that I've read, so fanservice is the deciding factor).

Think about it: had Raki never been introduced, I doubt there would be as many female fans. While mainly acting as a our viewpoint so we could pull apart and examine Claire's character and motivations, he doubled as an interesting character on his own. I certainly wouldn't have started reading Claymore were it not for his tenacity and dedication to follow Claire. It was a good hook, and gave a nice relationship to examine. Relationships are more interesting to girls, if you think about it (social dynamics with females is alliances, with males it's looking for the angry face - see anthropological studies on this.)

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

For me, I watched the Claymore anime first before reading the manga. Hearing the horrible annoying voice of Raki in the dubbed English version of the anime has forever earned my loathing for this character. Die Raki die! Die die die!! Never has a character I wanted to get ripped apart and eaten by yoma in Claymore then Raki.

If you have any respect for Raki at all, make sure to turn on mute whenever Raki speaks if you watch the dubbed Englih version of the anime!

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

It's a shame I can't dislike posts Khorr,

But a lot of people seem to dislike anime Raki whilst showing respect for manga Raki. Of course Raki really is a little kid when he first appears in the manga, so that explains why he cried so much at first, but he's taller when he first appears in the anime. According to the Funi audio commentaries, Raki is 12 through the entire series, which is much less acceptable especially to men, but he's still only entering his teens anyway, so he will be a bit more childlike at first. If he wasn't then we couldn't squee as he gets manlier lol.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

1. He was willing to die with Clare in the cathedral, in an attempt to protect her from her letting Galk decapitate her.

For a boy who had nothing, and that would probably die anyway if left alone, dying 1 day before, or 1 day after made no difference.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

2. He certainly was not a damsel in distress against Ophelia, he just didn't have the power to succeed, which was to be expected obviously.

Why do you assume it was bravery? Why not blind anger?

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

3. He stood up to Cid and Galk in Rabona in defense of Clare, that certainly takes bravery. I would never stand up to a cop or policeman, which is the equivalent of Cid and Galk.

There's a big difference between rebelliousness and bravery. Certainly a kid being called a kid, will pretend to be a "grown up". Every kid does that. Until they really grow up, then we all want to be kids again. Hehe.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

4. He managed to follow Clare, until he collapsed in "The Fields".

Again, I think it's a survival instinct, not bravery. This is something that Clare accomplished following Theresa. Does that makes Clare manly?

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

5. He survived on his own after they separated due to Ophelia.

Well yes, but for how long? He found Priscilla and Isley pretty quickly, and I doubt that Isley made him work to earn his bread.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

6. He survived Isley and Priscilla, and Isley's training.

He survived WITH Isley and Priscilla, with them, not them. Priscilla hugging him all the time... I don't know, doesn't sound much of a challenge.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

7. He wasn't afraid of Clare, even though she could Awaken at any time and eat him up

Any "monster" giving you bread is better than starving to death.

Originally Posted by HegemonKhan

8. He bravely tried to punch the NY in his second time.

Then he cried.

I'm not being stubborn, but I just never saw this "bravery" of a little kid who had nothing in his life. It's more like a little puppy struggling to hold to his only chance to live.

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

1. He was willing to die with Clare in the cathedral, in an attempt to protect her from her letting Galk decapitate her.

2. He certainly was not a damsel in distress against Ophelia, he just didn't have the power to succeed, which was to be expected obviously.

3. He stood up to Cid and Galk in Rabona in defense of Clare, that certainly takes bravery. I would never stand up to a cop or policeman, which is the equivalent of Cid and Galk.

Originally Posted by Louvre

For a boy who had nothing, and that would probably die anyway if left alone, dying 1 day before, or 1 day after made no difference.

Why do you assume it was bravery? Why not blind anger?

There's a big difference between rebelliousness and bravery. Certainly a kid being called a kid, will pretend to be a "grown up". Every kid does that. Until they really grow up, then we all want to be kids again. Hehe.

Clue, Louvre-san: teenage boys have a lot of male hormones. And in Raki's case, his desire to be Clare's manly protector 'awakened'...

Re: Why Raki-chan is loved by so many girls but not by that many boys

Faintsmile1992:

If you haven't seen the Anime, please watch in the English version that Funimation released. You'll understand Khorr's point of view, one with which I completely agree. That voice just drives me nuts at times.

I don't understand why anyone would have a crush on pre-Pieta Raki. He's a teen-aged boy, probably no more than 15 years of age. Yagi portrayed him as an insecure individual. He does develop into a fine young man, after the Pieta War, most likely as a result of Isley's regal influence. However, insecure he may have been in the early chapters, you had to admire his devotion to Clare. He saved Clare in the "Darkness in Paradise" arc and was willing to sacrifice himself again, to save Clare from Ophelia. There are some admirable qualities in this young man. Most of us who have read Claymore a few times have come to appreciate both, his flaws and strengths.

This is a bit off topic but Zero Phoenix has made some very good points in discussing your assertions. You need to watch what you're referencing as support material. Just because it's from a newspaper or from an on-line source doesn't mean that it has "credibility" or "bares relevance" in support of your material.

Would I be on point if I stated that you might not have a crush on Raki, the character, but you have a great deal of affinity to the qualities of his personality?

I don't want to die. Even if that makeshift family was all nothing more than an illusion, doomed to someday fall apart. I so wish, so wish, it could have lasted the tiniest bit longer. - Norihiro Yagi

I don't understand why anyone would have a crush on pre-Pieta Raki. He's a teen-aged boy, probably no more than 15 years of age.

That is why.

Younger boys are hotter when they're devoted to you (but of course you have to catch the right one, so its best to let him make the first move). Didn't I already explain that a good way to make sure an alpha is devoted to you is to catch him young before hes tasted other females, and before he's been conditioned by the ridiculous 'alphas are bad boys, betas are caring' shit in the media to become something more undesirable.

Raki is a knight, before and after the timeskip, and he first becomes hot (as Clare herself recognises) during the Darkness in Paradise story arc.

Quote:

This is a bit off topic but Zero Phoenix has made some very good points in discussing your assertions. You need to watch what you're referencing as support material. Just because it's from a newspaper or from an on-line source doesn't mean that it has "credibility" or "bares relevance" in support of your material.

The support material fits with male and female psychology, there's a lot of girls who have crushes on boys like Raki and Hope Estheim whilst an awful lot of males hate such characters, or at least don't see whatever it is that attracts girls to them.

Quote:

Would I be on point if I stated that you might not have a crush on Raki, the character, but you have a great deal of affinity to the qualities of his personality?

Actually I don't, but I do have similarities to Clare and Teresa.

Last edited by faintsmile1992; November 05, 2011 at 03:29 AM.
Reason: I edited out some words in this line: "It was the thing the hormones 'awakened' between his legs that made Raki brave."