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Nero Video project size WRONG

Hi, I have a problem with Nero Video: the size of my ouput project is not 4.36 Gb (as it should be with a disc of 4.37), but it's something like 4.29 Gb, so I miss about 70 mb that could be used to improve compression quality. This is my way to work:

Editing file in Virtualdub, saving it as avi with NO compression.

Open this file with Nero Recode, and converting/saving it as MPEG 2 with LCPM audio. Then I have an .mpg file of about 6,65 GB. Now I put this file in Nero Video to make a dvd, which obviously it will be resized to fit 4,36 limit. Then after re-encoding in Nero Video, I can save my final result in .nrg Image file.

I noticed this problem with few MPEG 2 files (sometime project file is 3.98 Gb, missing about 380 mb) , so what's the problem? Thanks

I capture the video with an usb stick, the file is saved in avi. Then I edit the file with virtual dub (cutting, deinterlacing, filtering, etc). Virtual dub can save only in avi, so I save it uncompressed to have same quality of source. I know that there are a lot of software for video editing, but for my work virtual dub is the best. Obviously it's this the problem, because every file of my Nero Video project came from Nero Recode.

Davide:
As I understand this (thanks to Mister_M), the compression achieved during the transcoding process is content dependent. I have no idea what the criteria are in determining the output size estimate on the Burn Options page, but it seems that it is generally slightly conservative. Anyway, here's a little experiment I did to demonstrate what I think you are seeing.

Two MPEG-1 videos were made using Nero 2014 Video. Each consisted of a sequence of 16:9 pictures surrounded by the same Nero theme with music and pan/zoom. Each was about 21 minutes long. They were different in that the first comprised the ten Nero sample pictures repeated over and over; the second was a basically white background picture repeated over and over. The MPEG-1 output files were essentially the same size:

Well, I gave it a rather extreme example to work with! I think that even my "complex" example is simpler than a typical video scene. There have been cases in the past where the actual storage was slightly more than the estimate when fitting to disc. Now, that really prompts some anger! As I see it, there's no way to accurately predict the output size without actually doing the transcoding; anything less is simply a guess.

So you are saying that a software that costs about 100 € CONSTANTLY give "random" output size? We are talking about programming, something based on mathematic calculation, not about a prediction by a fortune teller.

Nero Company are you reading this?

I think a fix must come out as soon as possible, because it's an unbelievable situation for users.

Davide:
I'll leave it to the 23 Nero employees "participating" in this forum to defend their estimation algorithm. However, please appreciate that there is a vast difference between a precise "mathematical calculation" and what goes on using mathematical estimation techniques. A quick search result is here.

I don't know that I really want to prolong this, but I did my little test over using the same theme but without pan/zoom and using a blank white background. The MPEG-1: 120 MB (vs 1000 GB); the DVD est.: 150 MB (vs 1270 MB); the actual: 21 MB (vs 699 MB). As I said above, my examples are extreme! Whatever Nero is doing, I'm sure they are taking for granted that "compressing" white space is not a consideration.

I don't know the answer to that question. There have been questions concerning reported file sizes for every version of Nero all the way back to v8. I don't know if they view it as something to be fixed since they have the technical knowledge which may explain why it does this.

Without a detailed technical response from technical support, it's not possible to say if a real problem exists. It's really very complicated and depends on the characteristics of the files being used. I would like it if you would quit imposing your vengeance towards Nero AG, because they wouldn't hire you, against us in the forum who are trying to help people resolve problems.

This hasn't to do with my personal attitude against Nero AG.
It must be possible to talk about results of following forum threads about this size problem since years. Maybe I'm a bit more critical than others, because I've a background in software development.
And there is a problem since years in estimating DVD size for certain files. Because Nero Suite isn't just a free time project of some guys but a commercial product, paying customers can demand professional support and development!

I agree with what you said in your last comment. What I have a problem with is that most of your comments merely criticize Nero AG and tech support. I don't see a need to do that repeatedly and it doesn't help resolve the problem.

Critisism is because of the discrepancy of the green headline of this community and the activity of Nero employees. :(
Help is given by other Nero customers and comments of Nero employees don't show really some acknowledgement of the problems.

The problem of this thread is a good example for this statement.
Not been hired is not my problem with them. But since that time I cannot see activity in the field of QA.

This is not surprising, a mpeg-2 has a better compression as mpeg-1 - so mpeg-2 is able to store the complete video without reduction of quality in less bytes - where is the problem?

So, you always have two cases for "fit to disc":
a) The data are fitting without reduction of quality (lossless compression):
In this case of cause the data can be smaller as the size of the disc - it does not make sense to add "empty" bytes.

Note: If the input-data are beyond dvd limitations (e.g. resolution), of cause first the resolution has to be lowered.

Also, a Video-DVD has some limitation (e.g. bitrates) - so if you have a video that has some very complex parts and many still parts, you can also reach the point, that for the complex parts the maximum bitrates is used - and the still parts are encoded without any loos.
This can also have the result, that the file does not fill the complete disc.

b) The data are "too big", so the compression must lossly.
In this case nero determines the parameters in way the that as less loos as possible is used.
Of cause, this is not every time a 100% match - but what the problem? You will not see any quality difference from 1%. But, encoding would take much more time - for no gain...

The problem is that if I know that I can put more than 4,36 GB, I would add another clip/video to make the dvd full. Don't you think so? I would know exactly which would be the final size, not a randomly one. Am I asking something crazy for you?

In regards to the version number, each application has it's own version number. For instance, currently Nero Video is 15.0.23 whereas Burning Rom is 15.0.25. For each application, select Help, About and look at About Nero.................

The problem is that if I know that I can put more than 4,36 GB, I would add another clip/video to make the dvd full. Don't you think so? I would know EXACTLY which would be the final size, not a randomly one. Am I asking something crazy for you to a PRO software ?

Video files on a DVD always are compressed files. Compression uses the fact that audios/videos contain many parts, which are equal.

An exact calculation of the resulting size is only possible if you simulate the compression process on the raw video data. This is really time consuming. Another problem arises because usually you do not have the raw video data but only another compressed file. The reason is clear if you compare the size of a raw audio file ( .wav ) to the size of the corresponding MP3 file.

Because of this the resulting disc size is estimated from the original video files. The function tries to optimize video quality for the set of videos of the DVD.
With automatic parameter calculation you can check whether another clip is possible by adding this video and looking for a change in quality.

The exact size is only know when the recoding process for the dvd has finished.
Recode is necessary because the original videos are compressed too.

This estimation function has two constraints:

estimated size must not exceed resulting size of the DVD encoding process; the DVD would contain to few videos

resulting size must not exceed estimated size; the project cannot be burned to the chosen disc

This function isn't trivial and Nero development is continiously working on a optimization ( I hope ).