Rape Fantasies vs. Ravishment Fantasies - from Em and Lo

We were recently having a discussion on EMandLO.com] about "rape fantasies" when a passionate commenter pointed out the offensiveness of such a term: "...People of course may have fantasies where they wanted to be dominated/be submissive, but the people involved still want to be participating in whatever sexual act they are participating in. No one actually wants to experience what actually being raped would feel like..."Do you think the phrase "rape fantasy" should be officially retired in favor of the commenter's suggested alternative: "ravishment fantasy"?

"Ravishment" brings to mind the romance novel classic virile duke trapping the innocent maiden in her chambers. Ok, now I'm over the giggles. Yeah, I could see how it could be a more appropriate term. I've also seen the term "forced fantasy" used instead. Then again, "rape" has a powerful connotation to it, and gives a private fantasy or consensual encounter a certain edge. Not having ever been raped or knowing anyone close to me having raped (that I am aware of), the term "rape fantasy" doesn't offend me. Possibly it could be likened tentatively to groups reclaiming slur words, and in using them in a way that they control, talking back some of the power in the words and what they represent in actuality.

The thing about fantasies though is they are frequently illogical and/or private. Sometimes crazy stuff can turn you on; sometimes stuff you would never share even with a trusted partner or desire to act out consensually.

We were recently having a discussion on EMandLO.com] about "rape fantasies" when a passionate commenter pointed out the offensiveness of such a term: "...People of course may have fantasies where they wanted to be dominated/be
...

We were recently having a discussion on EMandLO.com] about "rape fantasies" when a passionate commenter pointed out the offensiveness of such a term: "...People of course may have fantasies where they wanted to be dominated/be submissive, but the people involved still want to be participating in whatever sexual act they are participating in. No one actually wants to experience what actually being raped would feel like..."Do you think the phrase "rape fantasy" should be officially retired in favor of the commenter's suggested alternative: "ravishment fantasy"?

Yes, I do! Rape is a crime, not a sexual fantasy. Rape puts one's very life in danger. I understand domination, but I'm sure anyone sane, would not want things to be taken to that limit.

I could see people being offended that have been raped before. But its all about the context: My bofriend always talks about taking me "against my will"
but its a dominence thing and we both know I always want it anyway... he doesn't mean it in a "I want to ruin someones life" way and he would never actually rape a person.

We were recently having a discussion on EMandLO.com] about "rape fantasies" when a passionate commenter pointed out the offensiveness of such a term: "...People of course may have fantasies where they wanted to be dominated/be
...

We were recently having a discussion on EMandLO.com] about "rape fantasies" when a passionate commenter pointed out the offensiveness of such a term: "...People of course may have fantasies where they wanted to be dominated/be submissive, but the people involved still want to be participating in whatever sexual act they are participating in. No one actually wants to experience what actually being raped would feel like..."Do you think the phrase "rape fantasy" should be officially retired in favor of the commenter's suggested alternative: "ravishment fantasy"?

I think we all are taking Rape in the modern context of the criminal act Miriam Webster defines the word rape to originally mean in the archaic

"to seize and take away by force"

Rape has many connotations in the legal sense too and your reader I think was commenting on only the most violent and offensive of the types of rape. Remember date rape does not require there to be violence, only for one of the parties to be non consenting.

Getting back to calling them "ravishement fantasies" or anything else. Here is what I think, this is a case of "if you change the name I can feel more comfortable with wanting to do it" It IS a rape fantasy in the most classic sense of the word, the person wants to feel a loss of control (aka being dominated). To call it by any other name is just looking for a way to make their fantasy more PC sounding.

Secondly I DO think there is a major difference between "Ravishment". I think alliegator got it right and this is very much the "unwilling becomes willing" fantasy that we see in bad romance novels. Whereas a "rape fantasy" is more forceful. And there is nothing wrong with that, we often see such things more fetish type behavior with doms and submissives. Also, what is wrong with a little, for lack of a better word but "violence" in sex? We do not tell those with sadasitic or masochistic tendancies that they are wrong? Who is this reader to say that NO ONE wants to know what that feels like? Does the reader know that? I'm sure there are some people in the more "extreme" side who may really want to know what a real rape feels like. Who knows but for her to make a broad sweeping statement like that is akin to saying "No one enjoys it hurting during sex" which we know is a total lie.

Anyway I'm sure I've bored everyone to tears but let me just end with this. Rape as a crime is always about dominance, it is rarely about the sex. The fantasy is very much about dominance in sex so why on earth would it be wrong to call it what it is? Let remember that by calling it a rape fantasy we are not belittling the people who have been victimized in a terrible and very personal way.

Rape in real life is obviously a terrible thing. I think if it were something I had endured I would not have the fantasies I do. But since I am a sane adult without this burden I can easily distinguish fantasy from reality. Just because something is terrible in reality doesn't mean it can't be exciting in fiction. I read plenty of erotic fiction most of which depicts very extreme sexual acts which I wouldn't want actually done to me or to any other person ever. Many of these stories feature rape. And it is rape not ravishment. It is completely non consensual and sometimes (depending on the story) painful.

Also ravishment just sounds silly; it's associated with fluffy romance novels. I read things that are much more explicit and violent.