The next time someone says "no one uses an AR to hunt"

Turn them onto the SPORTSMAN CHANNEL(605 DIRECTV) on monday night at 7:00 pm. The show is Modern Rifle Adventures, they exclusively hunt with AR's. Showing the versitility of the AR and hunting everything from squirrels to bear shows that yes, they are used to hunt with. Show these types that an AR has many uses, including training children to shoot. In fact in tonight's episode an 11 year old girl is hunting dear. If you miss the episode tonight then it is on again on thursday at 4:00 pm. :D

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Justin

February 18, 2013, 08:51 PM

Whenever someone says "ARs aren't used for hunting" ask them why there are so many hits for a Google image search for "AR rifle, hunting."

Legionnaire

February 18, 2013, 08:58 PM

Whenever someone tells me ARs aren't used for hunting, I say, "Not true ... but even if it were, that's beside the point."

SpentCasing

February 18, 2013, 09:01 PM

I own 2 ARs and the only thing I slay is paper. I couldnt care less about the hunting merits of my rifles. The 2A is NOT about hunting and using that as a defense is a lose-lose proposition anyways.

bogon48

February 18, 2013, 09:53 PM

Interesting post, and like Justin pointed out, there are ton's of search hits on their hunting use. But the media prejudice holds more sway than facts in the court of public opinion.

It's illegal here in VA to hunt big game with less than a .24 caliber bullet, but it's fine for varmints. I know that the intent is to ensure humane kills. Still, aren't humane kills are a function of shot placement, bullet energy and bullet lethality at a given range?

ARs should be fine at short to moderate ranges on certain game. But even if you don't like the .223 caliber, people can still get an AR-10 in .308 or AR-15 in a caliber like 6.5 Grendel. It's wrong the way the Stoner design has been considered as only fit for combat.

skeeziks

February 18, 2013, 10:03 PM

They will only say "Fine...they're used for hunting. But you don't need (there's that word again) all those 'Evil', assault weapon-type features on it to hunt, so we're putting limitations on them."

We must not play the "Hunting game" with them.

HammerheadSSN663

February 18, 2013, 10:05 PM

The only appropriate response to such a question should be, "So?"

To respond otherwise lends validity to their false argument.

Justin

February 18, 2013, 10:15 PM

I own 2 ARs and the only thing I slay is paper. I couldnt care less about the hunting merits of my rifles. The 2A is NOT about hunting and using that as a defense is a lose-lose proposition anyways.

You're missing the point.

Whether you're into hunting or not is immaterial.

What is relevant is the fact that the argument that "no one uses an AR to hunt" is a complete lie foisted on an ignorant public by duplicitous activists and politicians.

mastiffhound

February 18, 2013, 11:08 PM

I wasn't saying that hunting is the only argument, it's just one of the many. Home defense, defense from foreign invaders, or from tyranny are all valid too. The main argument I always hear is hunting. They like that one alot so showing them they are full of it usually causes them some discomfort.

Texan Scott

February 18, 2013, 11:17 PM

Best response: "You're wrong about that, but you're also missing the point."

hso

February 18, 2013, 11:25 PM

My wife hunts whitetail with her Colt NM 7.62x39.

There are any number of websites where examples of hunting with ARs can be found.

We also had a thread in General on this where many good examples were provided.

BigBore44

February 18, 2013, 11:47 PM

The 2A doesn't say anything about hunting. It's only about our right to own firearms to keep the power of the people with the people. And any organization or government official who opposes that is not to be trusted in any way or reelected because they are only seeking power and control over the citizens of our country. Period. End of story.

It will not fit in my Fiat 500 without folding the front and back seat down.

I do expect to use it only from a fixed position. It's a hunting rifle and nothing else.

Hardtarget

February 19, 2013, 12:13 AM

I like the response from BigBore 44! That is truth from start to finish.
Thank you.

Mark

r1derbike

February 19, 2013, 01:06 AM

I would hunt with an AR, with MK262 Mod.1 rounds, and nothing larger than a pig, unless a cougar or panther was charging, then I would hunt much faster.

I'm not sure if deer are legal to take with such a small bore here in AR, but will check.

EDIT: It appears that hunting deer with .223 centerfire is legal, as anything smaller than .22 centerfire is prohibited. I would, for the sake of the animal and hopefully humane kills that the 70-72 gr. MK232 5.56 NATO or Sierra Match King civilian equivalents be used. I personally would use other more powerful rounds. But deer may be hunted with .223 here. 1/7 or 1/8 twists minimum for the heavier projectiles.

Blackstone

February 19, 2013, 05:54 AM

I think the point is to say that first of all, that it is or isn't used for hunting is irrelevant. That said saying they aren't used for hunting is wrong anyway.

Ehtereon11B

February 19, 2013, 09:52 AM

The first time I saw an AR used for hunting it was in NYS and a friend of mine from high school bagged a deer with a 5.56mm AR and 5 round magazines. I, not knowing much about firearms, thought it was overkill. When in fact it was close to underkill. Currently AR is about hunting first, freedom second.

303tom

February 19, 2013, 09:59 AM

What is an AR ??????????????

Akita1

February 19, 2013, 10:23 AM

I have a DEDICATED 6.8mm AR for hogs & deer. My .270 is jealous!

Dr. Sandman

February 19, 2013, 10:42 AM

One of my distinguished co-workers says that he wants to ban guns, but not those used for hunting or target practice. I was quick to show him some pix of my recent hog hunting trip, with ARs and AKs in the hands of the hunters. I was sure to thank him for supporting our right to own ARs and AKs. He could not come up with a retort at that moment!

palmrose2

February 19, 2013, 11:16 AM

The first time I saw an AR used for hunting it was in NYS and a friend of mine from high school bagged a deer with a 5.56mm AR and 5 round magazines. I, not knowing much about firearms, thought it was overkill. When in fact it was close to underkill. Currently AR is about hunting first, freedom second.

One of my nephews bout shat when he saw me wielding a bone stock Saiga 7.62x39 while hunting deer. He hasn't seen it since I've converted it to it's more natural ergonomic configuration. I imagine he may just faint at the sight of it.

Akita1

February 19, 2013, 12:09 PM

The first time I saw an AR used for hunting it was in NYS and a friend of mine from high school bagged a deer with a 5.56mm AR and 5 round magazines. I, not knowing much about firearms, thought it was overkill. When in fact it was close to underkill. Currently AR is about hunting first, freedom second.
Not sure I agree - freedom comes first, then hunting (and yes, I am an avid hunter and use ARs to hunt). 2A is not about hunting, it's about freedom from tyranny. Hunting with such tools granted under that banner is a fringe benefit.

gym

February 19, 2013, 12:15 PM

They are used for every purpose including hunting people if they try and break in your house or the need arises for people to defend the country against ,tyranny, "foreign or domestic", of any type, along with getting dinner, and sporting purposes.
It's the swiss army knife of rifles.

mcdonl

February 19, 2013, 12:16 PM

The anti's are doing their best to seperate us from Sportsman and we are not helping. If they are going to continue to use "hunting" as the item they are trying to protect than we need to use sportsman to fight with us.

An example is in my State, I am working with the Executive Director of the Sportsman Alliance of Maine to visit my gun club, and others in the area to share the merits of the AR platform with hunters.

Spread knowledge, not fear and hate. Let the anti's do that.

We need to stick together. Trust me... hunters want to defend the 2nd amandment as much as anyone.

jerkface11

February 19, 2013, 12:18 PM

I would, for the sake of the animal and hopefully humane kills that the 70-72 gr. MK232 5.56 NATO or Sierra Match King civilian equivalents be used. I personally would use other more powerful rounds. But deer may be hunted with .223 here. 1/7 or 1/8 twists minimum for the heavier projectiles.

55gr hunting bullets exist and work wonders on whitetail.

SoCalNoMore

February 19, 2013, 12:30 PM

I don't hunt, but if I needed to I am sure my Colt AR would do just fine.

ssyoumans

February 19, 2013, 12:42 PM

I took a 6pt GA buck last November with my AR15 in 6.8 SPC II using a 95gr TTSX hand load. It does the job very well. Plan to take it hog hunting this year.
I took deer last year with a muzzleloader, 243 Win and the 6.8. I chose taking the 6.8 over my 308 bolt action. I think her feelings were hurt :D

HOOfan_1

February 19, 2013, 12:46 PM

Best response: "You're wrong about that, but you're also missing the point."

The argument used by some - AR's aren't used for hunting - does need to be addressed. Those who say it are repeating 1) a lie, and 2) are completely uninformed. And, I hear it from gun guys, too. The president of the National Turkey Federation said it the other day.

One thing they like to point out is that "nobody needs a 30 round magazine to hunt." Which completely ignores the fact most states have a capacity limit of 5 to 10 rounds regardless. That needs to be pointed out - it's a major tell they aren't a hunter, or are deliberately ignoring the facts to support their emotional rant. We need to get them thinking - not arguing among ourselves. They are wrong regardless, stick to the real problem.

When people say AR's aren't used for hunting, my next question is "Do you hunt?" Likely, if they aren't feeling threatened, they answer no. Don't get dramatic, simply tell them it's not true, it's better to say that you do, and it's no different than any other gun. Let them go for another try - it's likely the magazine thing.

The problem isn't them spouting ignorance, it's US not having a polite and reasoned answer. What usually happens is the discussion gets into a debate over social class and masculinity - both parties are monkey dancing to see who is the dominant male. It's the locker room measuring contest all over again, and if you aren't prepared to calmly ignore their baiting, then you will play the role of thug to their reasoned adult, and you lose.

Oh, by the way, the AR is a better hunting rifle, and I can discuss the point. I've posted it here and elsewhere. In short, the magazine makes it safer to unload, manual actions often require you to cycle every round thru the chamber with a cocked firing assembly. The AR, drop the mag, pull the charging handle, empty right now. Second, the AR is usually in a lighter caliber, and the biggest interest in shooting AR IS in a hunting caliber to bring down game humanely. You can shoot an AR more accurately because it has less recoil AND you know it. Further, you can let off a follow up shot more quickly with less game loss, you don't lose your sight picture cranking the action with your trigger hand. The AR is a SUPERIOR hunting rifle.

Those who work retail have a great deal of experience handling ignorance from customers with no clue - if you do, that's the approach to take. Polite, informed, educational, and sell them the truth. Nobody wins if you think the other guy is a complete idiot - that is the #1 clue you're getting into a measuring contest of wills. Be the responsible adult, and you have given them an example of the role model they need to see as the actual AR user.

Lots of people DO hunt with an AR, and it's the ones deflecting that issue or in denial who are helping the anti gunners. It's exactly the point of their oft repeated lie, and it needs to be directly confronted. Every lie we expose is a win for us.

Over 21 million veterans are trained on the M16, and its the biggest selling firearm in the marketplace for the past five years. The AR is a hunting rifle, it's safer, it's more accurate, and it's more humane in use.

Stop feeding the lies.

gym

February 19, 2013, 06:50 PM

Did you see Biden today, he said a doubble barell shotgun is all you need. He was responding to a reader who sent in a comment that was pro 30 round magazine. He said he told his wife to go out on the porch "or deck" and fire both shells. Has to be one of the dumbest things you could say.
I wish it was a live debate.

Ehtereon11B

February 20, 2013, 01:03 AM

Not sure I agree - freedom comes first, then hunting (and yes, I am an avid hunter and use ARs to hunt). 2A is not about hunting, it's about freedom from tyranny. Hunting with such tools granted under that banner is a fringe benefit.

Was speaking about modern times. 2A was written to prevent tyranny. It has been on the back burner for 200 years. Been moving closer to the front recently.

wacki

February 20, 2013, 01:22 AM

Whenever someone says "ARs aren't used for hunting" ask them why there are so many hits for a Google image search for "AR rifle, hunting."

Perfect

Big_John1961

February 20, 2013, 01:35 AM

I think Justin, BigBore and others are right on point; stay focused on what matters and that's the 2nd Amendment. All this chaff being put out there by the antis can only detract (or distract) from what really matters and that's our right to keep and bear arms and without these ridiculous restrictions being proposed. It's really as simple as that.

Kiln

February 20, 2013, 04:37 AM

The guys who think you can't hunt with an AR are the guys that don't understand what a semi-automatic firearm is.

They think that when you pull the trigger the deer is destroyed by a barrage of full auto fire similar to middle eastern bad guys in any 80's movie.

These people are completely ignorant morons.

rdhood

February 20, 2013, 05:58 PM

The argument used by some - AR's aren't used for hunting - does need to be addressed. Those who say it are repeating 1) a lie, and 2) are completely uninformed. And, I hear it from gun guys, too. The president of the National Turkey Federation said it the other day.

I agree. This creates enough misconception outside of those who actually know what an AR is that, if not addressed, becomes true. An accusation that goes unanswered becomes truth.

And the truth is, LOTS of people hunt with ARs. It is so ubiquitous that you even see some of the guys on "Yukon Men" hunt elk with them. Most people hunt with the best gun they have that gets the job done. Often, that is NOT an AR-15. But if all you have is an AR-15... then that is your hunting rifle.

Dnaltrop

February 20, 2013, 06:29 PM

My response to the "AR's aren't used for hunting"?

Pull up Flintknapper's feral hog hunting thread here on THR and point out his .458 SOCOM.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=449721

R.W.Dale

February 20, 2013, 06:36 PM

If you've accepted that the ability to hunt with a firearm is a valid point to make against banners then you've already failed the discussion.

The right answer is WHO CARES IF ANYONE HUNTS WITH IT? the 2a wasn't written with sportsman in mind.

posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complains about

mastiffhound

February 20, 2013, 10:17 PM

The point is putting these fools in their place (in the corner with the dunce cap) every time they open their mouths. The 2A argument is one point, when you throw that in their face they move on to the hunting. Pointing out every time they open their mouths they look stupid is the best you can do. People used to say that George W. was a moron, but he never said that taking a 12 gauge double barrel out back and firing off 2 rounds willy-nilly was a good idea. This is the idiotic retardation we are up against, best to put these morons in their place. Put these idiot window lickers in their place enough and they will shut up and fade to the shadows, NO ONE LIKES TO BE POINTED AT AND LAUGHED AT.

Embarrassment is the only thing these types understand. They are bullies, plain and simple. In school they pushed the little kids down every day to take their lunch money. Like school they always do something stupid. When they crap their pants in class you don't let them live it down, from that day forward you call them crap pants. You push back. It's funny how they end up as the guy robbing liquor stores for change and spending their days in prison. Yeah, I was bullied. I was the small malnourished kid. No, I never kicked the guys butt (by high school I was bigger and was playing football and boxing) and yes he was known as crap pants only in much more descriptive words. I'm just saying don't give them an inch, point out their ingnorance at every turn, and I promise they will crap their pants. Oops, Uncle Joe already did!

ACP

February 20, 2013, 10:41 PM

Of course ARs are used for hunting. A carpenter friend of mine made a bid on my Colt because he wanted to move up from his .204 Ruger for coyotes. And, of course, changeable uppers allow you to shoot larger calibers than .223.

So the anti-gunners show the depth of their ignorance there.

Their other argument is "you don't need a 30 round magazine to hunt deer." And I would reply, no I don't use a 30-round magazine to hunt deer... I use it to plink at targets at the range.

And, BTW -- who needs more than 60 horsepower or so to drive the 65mph national speed limit? If I give up my 30-round magazine because it is "unnecessary" and "unreasonable" will you give up your V-8, 350hp Lexus??

No??

Then we have a deal.

Ehtereon11B

February 21, 2013, 03:05 AM

The right answer is WHO CARES IF ANYONE HUNTS WITH IT? the 2a wasn't written with sportsman in mind.

I was debating an anti not too long ago who claimed the second was about hunting. He felt stupid when I said "Yes the founding fathers loved hunting so much, the made it the second rule when building a new government. The really loved their tasty, yummy deer."

I think any of the "you don't need 30 rounds to hunt deer" have never heard of 5, 10, 20 round magazines for ARs. I think that would make their brains implode.

Boostedtwo

February 21, 2013, 07:26 AM

I personally use mine to hunt coyotes and for target.

BigBore44

February 21, 2013, 07:55 AM

Mastiff you sound pretty angry. I too was bullied in school until highschool. And then I did make a few of the bullies crap themselves. But that was highschool. Now in the adult world if we were to go the route you propose we look like the crazy *********s the left is trying to make us look like. However, I do believe in standing up for yourself. But this isn't a fight with a guy at the bar that bows his chest at you. We both know how to handle that situation. Smash his face with a left hook and a straight right. But this is persuading some of the publics opinion about gun owners. I prefer to make the antis look dumb during my cross examination of their ridiculous statements.

CmpsdNoMore

February 21, 2013, 09:11 AM

What a person legally uses a firearm for has nothing to do with whether it should be banned or not.

That being said, I would call one 62 gr. soft point through the heart while running a humane kill.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9386/67990841454828715851147.jpg

I am afraid you may have missed a significant part of the problem. Many of the people not in the know HAVE educated themselves...and done a less than proper job of it. Telling a person to educate themselves when they already "know" what they are talking about won't work. After all, if a person thinks they know the material and thinks YOU are wrong, then why would they educate themselves. They think you are the one in need of education. As such, you can't expect them to learn on their own. Helping them in a nonconfrontational manner would go a lot further than telling them to educate themselves.

mdemetz

February 21, 2013, 10:16 AM

Introduced as a sport rifle in '65 . (http://books.google.com/books?id=4CUDAAAAMBAJ&pg=RA1-PA171&dq=AR-15&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c4sjUce2BuHU0gHtyIDgCA&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAjge#v=onepage&q=AR-15&f=false)

StrutStopper

February 21, 2013, 10:26 AM

Not that this argument is about hunting, but in my state the only centerfire calibers that can legally be used to hunt with are those smaller than .225. It will be interesting to see what our governer (who PROMISED to pass new gun legislation) will come up with to make my perfectly legal hunting rifle illegal in the near future.

Akita1

February 21, 2013, 10:31 AM

What a person legally uses a firearm for has nothing to do with whether it should be banned or not.

That being said, I would call one 62 gr. soft point through the heart while running a humane kill.
http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9386/67990841454828715851147.jpg
On the run through the heart - impressive!

Akita1

February 21, 2013, 10:32 AM

Was speaking about modern times. 2A was written to prevent tyranny. It has been on the back burner for 200 years. Been moving closer to the front recently.
Roger that

JASmith

February 26, 2013, 09:13 PM

Folks are on the mark when saying that the second amendment is not about hunting or recreational shooting. It is all about protecting the citizenry from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Having acknowledged that, I submit that the more folks that use ARs for hunting or competition, the more that will recognize them as tools. That means more people who are likely to understand the value of the AR for both hunting and defense.

An example of AR cartridges designed expressly for hunting is the 6.5 Grendel. Bullets from this cartridge best those from those from the .243 Winchester at all ranges. The wind drift is less. Pretty much the same aimpoint can be used out to past 250 yards when both are sighted in at 200 yards. Past that point, we are likely to lase the target to get the correct holdover or number of clicks so the differences in trajectory are meaningless.

There is more on this in the newly-published 6.5 Grendel Reloading Handbook (http://shootersnotes.com/articles/6-5-grendel-reloading-handbook/).

NY'er

February 27, 2013, 01:23 AM

I was debating an anti not too long ago who claimed the second was about hunting. He felt stupid when I said "Yes the founding fathers loved hunting so much, the made it the second rule when building a new government. The really loved their tasty, yummy deer."

Ehtereon11B absolutely nailed it!

I hope you don't mind if I use this, and often. It's the most "Common Sense" answer I've heard and it makes the point without being defensive or aggressive. Perfect!

In fact someone should forward this thought to Wayne LaPierre, all of our representatives who are "trying to protect hunters' rights".... and of course Piers Morgan

Tirod

February 27, 2013, 12:14 PM

The important part of any discussion is being fair and honest about it. If anyone approaches it as a win/lose situation, better you shut up and back off. You will not be the example needed, wrong guy at the wrong time.

Weak egos needing to prop up their masculinity need not apply. I realize that sounds like a challenge, but that is exactly the problem we face - taking things as a personal challenge to one's self esteem.

Guys, it's really a problem bringing that to the table - it plays into their game plan. The whole "disarm America" is them wanting to put us in our place - subordinate to their will. And if you act like a juvenile with a bad attitude and can't hold an adult conversation on it, you need to toughen up and learn how.

The biggest way to tell if you are headed straight to a confrontation is when you absolutely know the other guy is a freaking disrespectful idiot. NO, he is NOT. He's just another guy, JUST LIKE YOU, with an opinion and lots of emotion backing it up.

If your blood pressure goes up when you hear them talk, YOU are the problem. Back off, some dummy spouting off in public baiting the crowd with over the top rhetoric is being an attention getter. Don't feed the troll, same as here.

Talking about gun control is something else entirely, and in public, it's a lot more like a speech and debate tournament. There are rules - you absolutely do not diss the other party. Violate that, and it all goes downhill. It then becomes YOU over THEM, and that is exactly what they are trying to pull off.

Gun control is mostly decided by who is better informed and has the patience to explain their view clearly with the facts. If you can't play by the rules, learn how. We have enough problems from those who go off the deep end and get benched.

Stevie-Ray

February 27, 2013, 02:03 PM

My brother told me, "NOBODY NEEDS AN ASSAULT RIFLE". I told him, "Nobody needs a Corvette, either, and since sports cars kill more people each year than "assault rifles" and the vette is #1 in death for those accidents, maybe we should ban Corvettes. Now you know how silly that sounds every time it's spouted. It's the Bill of Rights, not the bill of needs" :scrutiny:

EnfieldEnthusiast

April 28, 2013, 08:55 AM

"No one uses an AR-15 to hunt"? This is what the anti-gun lobby wants people to think,because in their view these things are unnessecary & Rebecca Peters admitted in the gun debate,in London last year that she knew people used them for hunting in Australia(before the 1996 ban)but thought of them as unnessecary,along with handguns.

This is a personal view on things,not a factual view,by a bunch of halfwits.

Carl N. Brown

April 28, 2013, 09:40 AM

Around here ARs are used in modern military matches.

ARs are also used for varmint hunting using bullets in the 45gr to 55gr weights and, where legal, for deer hunting using bullets in the 62gr to 77gr weights. (The German 5.6x57mmRWS was designed for European red deer, and there are .223Rem loads in the same class.)

Military people who take up sports shooting tend to gravitate toward the guns they are familiar with to the point of instinctive reflex. Soldiers familiar with the 1860 Henry wanted the Winchester 1866 in civilian life. Soldiers familiar with the Krag or Springfield in service wanted bolt actions in civilian life. The AR is the modern sporting rifle (as much as I prefer my Marlin 336 lever action) and that's a fact.

And the two hunters using ARs deer hunting I know (I thought 72gr 223 but one owns a 6.8mmRem AR come to think about it) took deer with one shot kills: I helped butcher the deer (so spare me the "anyone who needs 30 shots to kill a deer aint a hunter" rants).

Ford4x4

April 28, 2013, 11:54 AM

The vast majority of handguns are never used to hunt.

Stevie-Ray, thanks. I might have to order a new bumper sticker: "Its the Bill of Rights. not the Bill of Needs"

Bruno2

April 29, 2013, 03:32 AM

The fact that people do hunt with AR's should be addressed just to expose the lies. However, the argument shouldn't be used to justify why we should always be allowed to have them. That has nothing to do with it.

t's all about the gov not having any say in what guns we should have or shouldn't. That was why the amendment was created to limit the gov's powers over us. The fact that we have any gun laws period flies in the face of the 2A.

That's one of the reasons I whole heartedly oppose UBC's. Do you think that the King would have approved any of the framers or sons of Liberty to own a gun? I bet not.

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