I also appreciate your apology. But being unprofessional and apologizing for it, is not the same as not being unprofessional in the first place. Maybe a thread such as this one, where paying customers are complaining about your under performance, is not the correct venue for such behaviour?

Maybe it's also not the correct venue for passive aggressive pedantry.

Posted - 2016.11.04 17:40:54 -
[62] - Quote
Just shoot them in the face, Antiquarian, they are used to it. As for the changes to the graph, i dont see it as so much important. Table is a lot more informative, graph is only for a quick assesment for me.

Posted - 2016.11.06 13:32:30 -
[67] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog: always good to have more input, so thanks for popping by! Changes are coming for this feature so do get ready to check them out on Singularity. The "jumping" is a result of new/limited history items, but there is a fix underway for that specific bug. Switching between any other items, the graph functions as you would expect.

Soltys: Karkur and I are about to spend 20-some hours together on planes headed for EVE Down Under, so I will take a bit of time to make sure she has seen your input. All bug reports may not be defects, but some of your issues may indicate a need for further iteration/development. EVE is an evolving beast, and you could be the mutagen that leads to a selected trait, analogically speaking.

Bad Bobby: Ping me the specific bug report number for your price history graph being nonfunctional. I will check it out. All of the reports identifying ways that the graph does not work as intended have been elevated to defect status or addressed in feature iteration but it is possible that you have something valuable to contribute.

Everyone: CCP thrives by taking player feedback into account and this is the perfect place for that feedback. Thanks again for chiming in!

Soltys: Karkur and I are about to spend 20-some hours together on planes headed for EVE Down Under, so I will take a bit of time to make sure she has seen your input. All bug reports may not be defects, but some of your issues may indicate a need for further iteration/development. EVE is an evolving beast, and you could be the mutagen that leads to a selected trait, analogically speaking.

TBH, I wouldn't mind using that "opportunity" to smuggle few other (not market related) suggestions along the way =)

Bad Bobby: Ping me the specific bug report number for your price history graph being nonfunctional. I will check it out. All of the reports identifying ways that the graph does not work as intended have been elevated to defect status or addressed in feature iteration but it is possible that you have something valuable to contribute.

I think you have misread this. I'm not a volunteer tester. I'm a customer complaining about the shortcomings of your performance and the poor judgement of tone in your posting. Since my complaints are falling on stony ground, I'll waste no more of my time on them.

Players not seeking to report issues (bugs) with the Market Graphs feature but finding themselves in need of further support and formal interaction with CCP including but not limited to the filing of complaints regarding service may submit support tickets at the language-specific sites listed below. Suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. The appropriate email address is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com for such reports.

Players not seeking to report issues (bugs) with the Market Graphs feature but finding themselves in need of further support and formal interaction with CCP including but not limited to the filing of complaints regarding service may submit support tickets at the language-specific sites listed below. Suspicion of developer misconduct can be reported to Internal Affairs via email or petition. The appropriate email address is internalaffairs@ccpgames.com for such reports.

Posted - 2016.11.07 13:42:12 -
[72] - Quote
Dev time is a limited resource. CCP Antiquarian is doing their best to communicate with the players to address critical issues. No matter how well tested something is there will be bugs. Please stop the hostile posting towards the Devs, especially when they are trying to address concerns you my have.

31. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, GG#outingGG% of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.

Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.

Posted - 2016.11.07 21:27:25 -
[73] - Quote
The new graphs I find frustrating, as they always reset to the default timescale. Within a single session it remembers my setting, but it is very annoying having to always adjust this.

Why not give us a drop down with the same presets as before for defaults? I like quickly being about to select different exact time frames, and the dragging a window is just not the same.

Also...the colors. PLEASE do something about the dark on dark color scheme. The current contrast between each component is not very good.

Posted - 2016.11.11 07:57:06 -
[75] - Quote
The colors are indeed a bit problematic, especially when using the market on cheap monitors or on a laptop in daylight conditions.Besides that, it looks really nice. Just a little bit too dark / not enough contrast.

One thing that bothers me: Sometimes the market graph doesn't shop up at all - it just shows a completely blank market window.It happens on items without a market history in citadels / regions and randomly on other items as well.

1) I can't get the time frame of the graph (X axis) to stay 365 days! What am I doing wrong here? bug? I thought this had been fixed? Can we not have a default for this?

2) How do we set a default also to get rid of Negative ISK values on the Y axis?

3) How do I change the cost slider on the Y axis to millions instead of decimal Billions. Why the change? Millions is so much more in line with the price of things than billions. (i.e. the number of items in game that cost in the millions versus Billions!) It makes no sense!

All three of your points ("gripes" seems negative) are addressed in the post-Ascension release which will hit Singularity on or around the 22nd of November.

Aaril, Vickers Secretary, and TheSmokingHertog:

I have a conversation planned with the UI programmer about the colors. I don't know how that will ultimately play out, but my hope is to reach a conclusion that satisfies the largest number of players from the most varied distribution of playstyles on the widest range of hardware in the most disparate spread of environments.

As for the items with no graph, that is the case for items with no history, but I've not seen it happen on other items. If you get it again, would you be willing to hit f12 and ping me a bugreport? (you are of course under no obligation to do that, it would just be helpful in isolating and correcting the problem).

Posted - 2016.11.17 15:08:57 -
[79] - Quote
Hey thanks CCP both for tackling the issues and also for letting us know that it's being worked on. It's always easier to put up with something annoying when you know a fix is in the works.

Given this is probably an ongoing work in progress I'd like to add some fine detail feedback. I apologise in advance if this is already covered by the work that's been done.

For me there are two distinct issues with the y axis scaling and labeling. This feedback is in the hope that both get fixed.

The first being the size of jump chosen between marks on the y axis. The auto scaler just makes sure they are even - although even this becomes an issue when the digits are also scaled and rounded. I was looking at market charts today where my points were between graph lines chosen at wierd points. Say it fell between mark xx.9 lower and mark yy.6 higher, so now I have to work out in my head that the gap represents a jump of 0.7 and then I have to guess where on a scale of 0.7 the data point lies between the two, which means more maths because my head works in units of 10, but now in my head I have to rescale that by a factor of 0.7. Then I have to take this and add it back to the original xx.9 marker on the graph. That's a whole ton of mental maths.This goes against the whole point of a graph being an easy visualization of data. With a factor of 10 based scaling we can look and instantly know. With random scaling the amount of math required makes a graph less useful than the page of raw data.

Secondly the numbers in the 100s million range are terrible. On the y axis. 0.17B is terrible waste of screen space. The 0 tells me nothing and needs a full stop after. Of 3 1/2 characters used to convey info 1 1/2 are wasted, and do nothing but chew up characters that could be used to pass on information. 166M is 1/2 a character less and give me more information. Also notice that extra character reduces the rounding error too 0.17 became 166 giving higher accuracy with less characters. Please bring this back into the realms of the sensible. Simple solution. If any number starts "0." then drop that range down to the next range before displaying. I have not checked other ranges where it transitions. e.g. 100s of thousands to millions. Every range transition should be sanity checked.

Same for data points on the graph. I can't work out their values because of the scaling and rounding, so I hover over them.One good point - hovering over them brings up info, without needing to click, good stuff thanks :)The date is there and the value beneath. The data point uses exactly the same number/text formatting function as the y axis, so it's practically useless for all the reasons right above. There's a ton of space, as much space as the date takes up, but it is not used. It could be used, it's currently blank. Please give us meaningful data in here. Less rounding, less guessing, more info please. It's not rocket science, well actually........

I do appreciate CCP as a whole, how busy you guys are with the latest release, and all the cool stuff. But I do genuinely wonder how this sort of stuff ends up in game without someone at CCP going "wtf???" when they see it. I can assume the person who did the new market graph doesn't actually use the market graph in game much themselves, because no way someone who uses it regularly would think it was anything less than a giant step backwards. Run stuff past people who use it.

It's clear someone(s) has put a lot of time and effort into the market history revamp, and it's sad that there's so much negative feedback about it someone's effort. I'd be very disheartened if it was me. I feel sad myself for pooping on someone's parade. But this sort of stuff does need checking and review please. This would have been released to a lot of praise if it had been done properly.

Go to JitaChoose Pyerite or Tritanium - look at the history graphIt's a flat linescroll the mouse wheel to try and expand the detail, the straight line just moves up and down the screen, you don't get to see any detailScroll up a lot and the Y axis scale just goes crazy because the actual price price is so close to zero you just end up looking at random numbers on the Y axisat the moment Tritanium is going for close to 228 ISK per unit according to the graph defaults

The lines are so flat you can see no detail as to how the price is and has been trending. It's just a flat line. All due to the Y axis scaling I assume.

I just got back from Australia and am just catching up on all the news, but what's on Sisi right now is hitting TQ on Tuesday, I believe.

This is quite an improvement ! Really much better.

Two things though:

There is no memory. If I carefully scale/pan graph for some item, it's immediately gone if I switch to 'Show Table' and back again to 'Show Graph'. It would be nice for that to persist at least if we don't switch to another item. If it persisted across other items, even better.

When we move cursor over graph's median dots, it would be nice if it also showed low and high prices as well in tooltips, eg something like:

But there's one problem that still makes it weird to use, and that's Y axis labelling system. I've re-read the thread and it was mentioned one or two times before, but hasn't been addressed yet.

In my opinion, values on Y axis feel weird because of the way we as humans talk about the prices IRL. For example, we don't tell each other "hey i've got a really cheap deal on a Tengu for zero point fifteen bil", yet that's exactly what we see in the market graph: http://i.imgur.com/MLklqhh.png. So generally we talk about billions in price when the price exceeds a billion, and we talk about millions when it's below a bil; same goes for Ks or Ts, or at least that's my impression on how people generally talk about prices.

Posted - 2016.12.22 23:06:02 -
[88] - Quote
One more thing, which was mentioned earlier as well - let it scale initially based on prices in selected period, instead of the whole year (or add an option to select one or the other).

Adding fields can be a hassle with the limited real estate here, but I'll hit up the programmer and see what he says.

How is my custom red line doing? Maybe put the info field in the market quick bar as a label. You can already make a note in the quick bar on an item. I already have the price of each of my sale items on them.

"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X

Posted - 2016.12.28 04:21:48 -
[90] - Quote
I would like to see a right click export as png/jpeg and a copy link to chat..

Ideally the graph should show what, where and when somewhere graphically a bit better for export purposes ofc. Which is also a nice thing for current more clunky screenshot grabbing..

Oh and in a near future would be really nice to be able to have more items showing in ONE graph window, so a detach and drag drop items to add more things in one graph would be pretty amazing..

Its related a lot to my wish for option to open and share market details, without live refresh and link them and have more than one open at the time.. So not with browsing, or live refresh, but just the market "quote"..

This would be a nice step towards adding the same global/universal market benefit that out of game 3rd party tools give, without breaking the servers or the "fog of war"..

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