Between 2008 and 2010 money lender Wonga sent out almost 45,000 threatening letters to customers in arrears from fake law firms that did not exist.

The letters gave the "misleading" impression that outstanding debts had been passed on to a law firm or third party with the "threat of adverse consequences" if debts were not repaid quickly, including customers being charged administration fees to send out the letters.

Wonga has now been landed with a £2.6 million compensation bill after Watchdog the Financial Conduct Authority (FCU) investigated.

Wonga said: "We apologise unreservedly to all of our customers."

For more on this story buy next week's Waltham Forest Guardian and Chingford Guardian - out on Thursday.

Comments

Has she denounced the last Labour government where these firms flourished with their assistance?

No, thought not because she knows nothing except playing on twitter.

Has she denounced the last Labour government where these firms flourished with their assistance?
No, thought not because she knows nothing except playing on twitter.Villagecranberry

Has she denounced the last Labour government where these firms flourished with their assistance?

No, thought not because she knows nothing except playing on twitter.

Score: -2

mdj
11:20pm Fri 27 Jun 14

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.
Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?mdj

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Score: 4

Villagecranberry
12:02am Sat 28 Jun 14

mdj wrote…

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Great point, too obvious, she goes for the easy option, says zero.

Typical Labour, hypocritical nonsense. Cherry picker.

[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote:
Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.
Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?[/p][/quote]Great point, too obvious, she goes for the easy option, says zero.
Typical Labour, hypocritical nonsense. Cherry picker.Villagecranberry

mdj wrote…

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Great point, too obvious, she goes for the easy option, says zero.

Typical Labour, hypocritical nonsense. Cherry picker.

Score: -1

Alan_1976
7:27am Sat 28 Jun 14

mdj wrote…

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Last time I checked they do offer loans at lower interest rates than the stratospheric rates of Wonga in common with other banks and credit firms. What they won't do is offer loans to people who can't afford the repayments.

Is that what you're suggesting they do?

[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote:
Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.
Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?[/p][/quote]Last time I checked they do offer loans at lower interest rates than the stratospheric rates of Wonga in common with other banks and credit firms. What they won't do is offer loans to people who can't afford the repayments.
Is that what you're suggesting they do?Alan_1976

mdj wrote…

Stella Creasy is sponsored by the Coop, which as we all know has a bank.

Has she ever asked why this bank doesn't put Wonga, Oakam, and all these other unsavoury outfits out of business overnight by offering their customers loans at lower interest rates?

Last time I checked they do offer loans at lower interest rates than the stratospheric rates of Wonga in common with other banks and credit firms. What they won't do is offer loans to people who can't afford the repayments.

Is that what you're suggesting they do?

Score: 9

mdj
1:05pm Sat 28 Jun 14

'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'

You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.

None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.

It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.

The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.

Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.

About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.

'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'
You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.
None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.
It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.
The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.
Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.
About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.mdj

'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'

You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.

None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.

It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.

The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.

Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.

About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.

Score: 2

Alan_1976
8:20pm Sat 28 Jun 14

mdj wrote…

'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'

You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.

None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.

It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.

The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.

Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.

About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.

If only the cooperative had a credit union...

http://www.co-operat
ivecreditunion.coop

[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote:
'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'
You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.
None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.
It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.
The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.
Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.
About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.[/p][/quote]If only the cooperative had a credit union...
http://www.co-operat
ivecreditunion.coopAlan_1976

mdj wrote…

'Is that what you're suggesting they do?'

You may not realise that the Coop was the first bank to red-line poorer applicants wholesale as a category. Perhaps they lacked the resources or the competence needed for the one-by-one assessment of peoples' means and motives.
They had long since lost in many peoples' minds the homespun, neighbourly image they still sought to project.
I was one, perhaps of many, who first started smelling a rat with the Coop when they introduced their 'ethical' policy, which never seemed to apply to how they treated their customers.
It was their habit of sending pious bumf on recycled paper about their love for dolphins in the same post they charged you £35 for going 10p overdrawn the previous quarter which rankled as much as their well-known inefficiency.
It was this type of sanctimonious PR that sensitised me to the same cheap rhetoric when LBWF tried it on as well.

None of us have any persuasive power with a bank remotely on the scale of Stella Creasy's with the Coop. She has chosen to build a high profile on the topic of credit for poorer people without coming forward with any solution other than rebuke for those who,however unpleasantly, fill a gap in the market that the banks, including her sponsor, have refused to fill.

It has been calculated that a money-lender who does not take deposits, cannot lend at a multiple and needs a nationwide network of single-purpose retail outlets has to charge a minimum 100% simply to open its doors, assuming all loans are repaid.
As you say, many cannot afford to repay: would you prefer the poor instead to have no access to credit which will not be reclaimed with the threat of violence?
I have happily been out several times leafletting in the High St to promote the Credit Union, but we all know it has minute powers to affect the overall situation; unlike a bank, it cannot operate on a fractional reserve.

The situation is hateful all round; it especially grates to think that the money Wonga and Co lend has mostly been borrowed at much lower rates from banks that our money helped to bail out.
Only a bank of some sort has the resources and structure to alleviate it.
We know the funding is there, because we see Wonga lending it.
At an affordable rate the default risk would be minimised, creating a virtuous cycle of lower rates and improving paybacks, and hard-up people escaping debt.

Stella Creasy is sponsored by a bank - admittedly one whose actual size its own Chairman had no concept of before a parliamentary committee, which has been run into the ground by massive incompetence, wishful thinking and grandiose self-righteousness, betraying all its noble origins and abusing the trust of its depositors,leaving just a shell of hypocrisy and sleaze.

About all this she has absolutely nothing to say.

If only the cooperative had a credit union...

http://www.co-operat
ivecreditunion.coop

Score: 0

mdj
11:57am Sun 29 Jun 14

Edit, Alan, edit!

'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.

Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.

Edit, Alan, edit!
'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.
Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.mdj

Edit, Alan, edit!

'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.

Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.

Score: 1

Alan_1976
2:12pm Sun 29 Jun 14

mdj wrote…

Edit, Alan, edit!

'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.

Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.

Pardon? What are you editing about?

"I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam". A sentence dearly in need of some editorial care.

As to the bank "collapsing in corruption" the Coop bank did not collapse, nor did it actually require injection of funds by the taxpayer unlike so many other banks....

[quote][p][bold]mdj[/bold] wrote:
Edit, Alan, edit!
'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.
Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.[/p][/quote]Pardon? What are you editing about?
"I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam". A sentence dearly in need of some editorial care.
As to the bank "collapsing in corruption" the Coop bank did not collapse, nor did it actually require injection of funds by the taxpayer unlike so many other banks....Alan_1976

mdj wrote…

Edit, Alan, edit!

'If only the cooperative had a credit union...'
I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam.

Our banking problems will be fixed, if at all, by a banking solution; hopefully in the form of a genuinely popular bank to replace the bogus one that has collapsed in corruption.

Pardon? What are you editing about?

"I don't see opening its doors next to Oakam". A sentence dearly in need of some editorial care.

As to the bank "collapsing in corruption" the Coop bank did not collapse, nor did it actually require injection of funds by the taxpayer unlike so many other banks....

Score: 2

stickmanny
7:40pm Sun 29 Jun 14

Nor did it launder money for international drug barons (HSBC) or commit one of the frauds of the century ie LIBOR fixing (RBS, Barclays) that swindled all of us out of tens of millions.

I expect Stella has links with the Co-op because it is exactly that: a co-operative in which all members have shares and all members share profits. A better model than HSBC, RBS, Barclays ...and Wonga, who may well have committed blackmail / deception by posing as solicitors in order to recover debt.

Nor did it launder money for international drug barons (HSBC) or commit one of the frauds of the century ie LIBOR fixing (RBS, Barclays) that swindled all of us out of tens of millions.
I expect Stella has links with the Co-op because it is exactly that: a co-operative in which all members have shares and all members share profits. A better model than HSBC, RBS, Barclays ...and Wonga, who may well have committed blackmail / deception by posing as solicitors in order to recover debt.stickmanny

Nor did it launder money for international drug barons (HSBC) or commit one of the frauds of the century ie LIBOR fixing (RBS, Barclays) that swindled all of us out of tens of millions.

I expect Stella has links with the Co-op because it is exactly that: a co-operative in which all members have shares and all members share profits. A better model than HSBC, RBS, Barclays ...and Wonga, who may well have committed blackmail / deception by posing as solicitors in order to recover debt.

Score: 2

mdj
8:45pm Mon 30 Jun 14

By 'edit' I mean, please don't copy and paste vast areas of type when all you are responding to is a couple of lines. It hurts the eyes!

What grates about the Coop is that it pretended to be something better, when it had ceased to be so years before. Along with other banks, it washed its hands of people in the greatest need, but unlike them made a big thing of preaching its superior virtue.

I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say.

It is surely worthy of comment that Stella Creasy has said nothing about the chaos and incompetence that has laid low the institution that sponsors her? Will hedge funds be quite so generous?

Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?

By 'edit' I mean, please don't copy and paste vast areas of type when all you are responding to is a couple of lines. It hurts the eyes!
What grates about the Coop is that it pretended to be something better, when it had ceased to be so years before. Along with other banks, it washed its hands of people in the greatest need, but unlike them made a big thing of preaching its superior virtue.
I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say.
It is surely worthy of comment that Stella Creasy has said nothing about the chaos and incompetence that has laid low the institution that sponsors her? Will hedge funds be quite so generous?
Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?mdj

By 'edit' I mean, please don't copy and paste vast areas of type when all you are responding to is a couple of lines. It hurts the eyes!

What grates about the Coop is that it pretended to be something better, when it had ceased to be so years before. Along with other banks, it washed its hands of people in the greatest need, but unlike them made a big thing of preaching its superior virtue.

I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say.

It is surely worthy of comment that Stella Creasy has said nothing about the chaos and incompetence that has laid low the institution that sponsors her? Will hedge funds be quite so generous?

Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?

Score: 2

stickmanny
9:36pm Mon 30 Jun 14

Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?

No they aren't. The problem is workers are not being paid a living wage.

Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?
No they aren't. The problem is workers are not being paid a living wage.stickmanny

Are those failures not related to the shameful fact that desperate people are forced into the hands of leeches such as Wonga and Oakam?

No they aren't. The problem is workers are not being paid a living wage.

Score: -1

Alan_1976
6:44am Tue 1 Jul 14

"I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say."

By your logic MDJ this article is pretty damning of the entire Conservative party....

As to editing I'm not a particular fan of your favoured process of extracting single sentences out of context.

"I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say."
By your logic MDJ this article is pretty damning of the entire Conservative party....
http://www.independe
nt.co.uk/news/uk/pol
itics/margaret-thatc
her-made-repeated-at
tempts-to-get-jimmy-
savile-knighted--des
pite-pleas-from-conc
erned-aides-8713407.
html
As to editing I'm not a particular fan of your favoured process of extracting single sentences out of context.Alan_1976

"I don't think any of the main banks had a senior figure associated with Cyril Smith and the foul goings-on related to child protection in northern cities ; if you have a better word than 'corruption' for that culture, and an explanation for its apparent symbiosis with the Labour Party, do please say."

By your logic MDJ this article is pretty damning of the entire Conservative party....

As to editing I'm not a particular fan of your favoured process of extracting single sentences out of context.

Score: 1

Alan_1976
8:04pm Tue 1 Jul 14

Also mdj presumably it is that "symbiosis" that you perceive that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith. A fact you conveniently ignore

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-politics-28
113517

Also mdj presumably it is that "symbiosis" that you perceive that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith. A fact you conveniently ignore
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-politics-28
113517Alan_1976

Also mdj presumably it is that "symbiosis" that you perceive that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith. A fact you conveniently ignore

http://www.bbc.co.uk
/news/uk-politics-28
113517

Score: 0

mdj
1:13pm Wed 2 Jul 14

'.. that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith...'

...years after he left the party of which Paul Flowers remained an honoured member, building on his career as Deputy Chair of Childrens' Serrvices in Rochdale, which oversaw the notorious Knowl View childrens' home
Mr Danzcuk's actions are highly praiseworthy; what took so long?

If quoting the point you are responding to 'quoting out of context', these exchanges would become interminable.

stickmanny is quite right; workers are not being paid a living wage: despite the Minimum Wage which was the best thing the Labour Party did in its largely wasted years in power, it's far too easily evaded, and cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason. We know who did that.
Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about, and the Coop has fallen far from its honourable beginnings. Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters.

We all know who our enemies are in this context; they have never changed, and never will, since human greed will never change.
What worries me is that our culture is so susceptible to false friends. People seem content to believe what's on the label, without looking further.
Is it unduly cynical to ask whether the Party of the Poor really wishes to see its wherewithal abolished?

'.. that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith...'
...years after he left the party of which Paul Flowers remained an honoured member, building on his career as Deputy Chair of Childrens' Serrvices in Rochdale, which oversaw the notorious Knowl View childrens' home
Mr Danzcuk's actions are highly praiseworthy; what took so long?
If quoting the point you are responding to 'quoting out of context', these exchanges would become interminable.
stickmanny is quite right; workers are not being paid a living wage: despite the Minimum Wage which was the best thing the Labour Party did in its largely wasted years in power, it's far too easily evaded, and cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason. We know who did that.
Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about, and the Coop has fallen far from its honourable beginnings. Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters.
We all know who our enemies are in this context; they have never changed, and never will, since human greed will never change.
What worries me is that our culture is so susceptible to false friends. People seem content to believe what's on the label, without looking further.
Is it unduly cynical to ask whether the Party of the Poor really wishes to see its wherewithal abolished?mdj

'.. that led the Labour MP to help expose Cyril Smith...'

...years after he left the party of which Paul Flowers remained an honoured member, building on his career as Deputy Chair of Childrens' Serrvices in Rochdale, which oversaw the notorious Knowl View childrens' home
Mr Danzcuk's actions are highly praiseworthy; what took so long?

If quoting the point you are responding to 'quoting out of context', these exchanges would become interminable.

stickmanny is quite right; workers are not being paid a living wage: despite the Minimum Wage which was the best thing the Labour Party did in its largely wasted years in power, it's far too easily evaded, and cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason. We know who did that.
Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about, and the Coop has fallen far from its honourable beginnings. Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters.

We all know who our enemies are in this context; they have never changed, and never will, since human greed will never change.
What worries me is that our culture is so susceptible to false friends. People seem content to believe what's on the label, without looking further.
Is it unduly cynical to ask whether the Party of the Poor really wishes to see its wherewithal abolished?

Score: 2

Alan_1976
3:01pm Wed 2 Jul 14

"what took so long?"

Given that the dossier was presented to Leon Britten in the 1980's that was rather the point of the article....

"Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about"

You seem to have rambled far away from that point.
The COOP is not the bank. An organisation that is part of the COOP movement happens to be a bank.

They also have a Credit Union organisation as I pointed out previously.

"Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters."

Again the Coop is not the bank. The Coops funding comes from the retail stores in the main and members fees.

"cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason"

http://www.cityam.co
m/blog/1394030304/ca
n-you-handle-these-3
-facts-immigration
Or in fact not a reason as it isn't a correct statement...

"what took so long?"
Given that the dossier was presented to Leon Britten in the 1980's that was rather the point of the article....
"Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about"
You seem to have rambled far away from that point.
The COOP is not the bank. An organisation that is part of the COOP movement happens to be a bank.
They also have a Credit Union organisation as I pointed out previously.
"Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters."
Again the Coop is not the bank. The Coops funding comes from the retail stores in the main and members fees.
"cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason"
http://www.cityam.co
m/blog/1394030304/ca
n-you-handle-these-3
-facts-immigration
Or in fact not a reason as it isn't a correct statement...Alan_1976

"what took so long?"

Given that the dossier was presented to Leon Britten in the 1980's that was rather the point of the article....

"Access to credit for the poor is the point we're talking about"

You seem to have rambled far away from that point.
The COOP is not the bank. An organisation that is part of the COOP movement happens to be a bank.

They also have a Credit Union organisation as I pointed out previously.

"Those who benefit from the Coop's support need to be candid about this, for they are in the best position to change matters."

Again the Coop is not the bank. The Coops funding comes from the retail stores in the main and members fees.

"cynically importing poor people who will collude with their own exploitation out of desperation is a major reason"

http://www.cityam.co
m/blog/1394030304/ca
n-you-handle-these-3
-facts-immigration
Or in fact not a reason as it isn't a correct statement...

Score: 1

stickmanny
5:29pm Wed 2 Jul 14

...and the idea that Stella Creasy has any influence over the Co-op bank, now 70% owned by three US hedge funds, is a bit silly.

...and the idea that Stella Creasy has any influence over the Co-op bank, now 70% owned by three US hedge funds, is a bit silly.stickmanny

...and the idea that Stella Creasy has any influence over the Co-op bank, now 70% owned by three US hedge funds, is a bit silly.

Score: -2

mdj
11:53am Thu 3 Jul 14

The Coop sponsors Stella Creasy - though for how much longer, who knows? - because they think she has influence and wish her to use it; she is very vocal figure on the topic of lending and the poor, but is apparently not expected to use that influence in respect of the Coop itself, which says a lot.
I'm not singling out the Coop because it's the worst offender, by any means, ; but the other failures in this field don't preach so much about the failings of others.

Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?

Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?
Does Stella Creasy?

The Coop sponsors Stella Creasy - though for how much longer, who knows? - because they think she has influence and wish her to use it; she is very vocal figure on the topic of lending and the poor, but is apparently not expected to use that influence in respect of the Coop itself, which says a lot.
I'm not singling out the Coop because it's the worst offender, by any means, ; but the other failures in this field don't preach so much about the failings of others.
Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?
Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?
Does Stella Creasy?mdj

The Coop sponsors Stella Creasy - though for how much longer, who knows? - because they think she has influence and wish her to use it; she is very vocal figure on the topic of lending and the poor, but is apparently not expected to use that influence in respect of the Coop itself, which says a lot.
I'm not singling out the Coop because it's the worst offender, by any means, ; but the other failures in this field don't preach so much about the failings of others.

Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?

Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?
Does Stella Creasy?

Score: 4

Alan_1976
1:55pm Thu 3 Jul 14

Again MDJ you talk of the COOP as if it is the bank and nothing else. Stella Creasey is not sponsored by the Bank she is sponsored by the Cooperative Party.

A party which is very active in the fight against Payday lenders

http://givethemcredi
t.org/

"Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?"

Statements like the above show how poorly you actually understand the structure of this organisation but are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor? A bank owned as Stickmanny pointed out by not the cooperative group but by US hedge funds? Those well-known charitable organisations.

"Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?"

Do you have any sensible statements to make with regards to the actual Cooperative group organisations Food, Travel, Insurance, Pharmacy, Legal Services , Farms etc? You know the ones that actually provide the funding for the MPs?

Again MDJ you talk of the COOP as if it is the bank and nothing else. Stella Creasey is not sponsored by the Bank she is sponsored by the Cooperative Party.
A party which is very active in the fight against Payday lenders
http://givethemcredi
t.org/
"Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?"
Statements like the above show how poorly you actually understand the structure of this organisation but are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor? A bank owned as Stickmanny pointed out by not the cooperative group but by US hedge funds? Those well-known charitable organisations.
"Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?"
Do you have any sensible statements to make with regards to the actual Cooperative group organisations Food, Travel, Insurance, Pharmacy, Legal Services , Farms etc? You know the ones that actually provide the funding for the MPs?Alan_1976

Again MDJ you talk of the COOP as if it is the bank and nothing else. Stella Creasey is not sponsored by the Bank she is sponsored by the Cooperative Party.

A party which is very active in the fight against Payday lenders

http://givethemcredi
t.org/

"Alan, do you seriously expect a Coop in-house credit union to have more power to help the poor than its own high street bank?"

Statements like the above show how poorly you actually understand the structure of this organisation but are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor? A bank owned as Stickmanny pointed out by not the cooperative group but by US hedge funds? Those well-known charitable organisations.

"Do either of you have any thoughts as to how this venerable institution, founded with such noble principles, came to fall into its present abject state?"

Do you have any sensible statements to make with regards to the actual Cooperative group organisations Food, Travel, Insurance, Pharmacy, Legal Services , Farms etc? You know the ones that actually provide the funding for the MPs?

Score: -2

mdj
1:27pm Fri 4 Jul 14

As you know Alan, the bank (RIP, effectively) is/was wholly owned by the retail Coop groups; it was never a Coop itself in any way, which many still seem not to understand.
Not long ago it was humiliatingly forced to admit that its vaunted Ethical Policy never applied to its clients!
Large chunks of those groups - insurance, funerals, farmland - are now facing losing their historic status or being sold off as part of the same meltdown.

Like you, I regard this as a tragedy; unlike you, I don't share the state of denial that leads people to believe that a hollowed-out shell is still the same as it always was, simply because the label is the same, and to make excuses - or fail to address entirely - the history of mismanagement and grandiose delusions that has led to this disaster.

Trying to exempt the Coop for its past conduct because of its present fire-sale ownership is grotesque.

And as for this: ' are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor?'

Oh dear, oh dear! I'm suggesting that it is precisely the reason for existence of the Cooperative Movement to do that: having been the proud owners of a bank, they were in pole position to be the innovative leaders in the field of micro-finance in this country, instead of being the first high street bank simply to redline the poor altogether, a shameful falling-away from principle.
Please don't scrape the excuse barrel further.

We probably agree on most social questions, though not their solutions; but constantly mistaking appearances and promises for reality will get nowhere, as the sad history of the Coop has shown.

And all the time, Stella Creasy says nothing...

As you know Alan, the bank (RIP, effectively) is/was wholly owned by the retail Coop groups; it was never a Coop itself in any way, which many still seem not to understand.
Not long ago it was humiliatingly forced to admit that its vaunted Ethical Policy never applied to its clients!
Large chunks of those groups - insurance, funerals, farmland - are now facing losing their historic status or being sold off as part of the same meltdown.
Like you, I regard this as a tragedy; unlike you, I don't share the state of denial that leads people to believe that a hollowed-out shell is still the same as it always was, simply because the label is the same, and to make excuses - or fail to address entirely - the history of mismanagement and grandiose delusions that has led to this disaster.
Trying to exempt the Coop for its past conduct because of its present fire-sale ownership is grotesque.
And as for this: ' are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor?'
Oh dear, oh dear! I'm suggesting that it is precisely the reason for existence of the Cooperative Movement to do that: having been the proud owners of a bank, they were in pole position to be the innovative leaders in the field of micro-finance in this country, instead of being the first high street bank simply to redline the poor altogether, a shameful falling-away from principle.
Please don't scrape the excuse barrel further.
We probably agree on most social questions, though not their solutions; but constantly mistaking appearances and promises for reality will get nowhere, as the sad history of the Coop has shown.
And all the time, Stella Creasy says nothing...mdj

As you know Alan, the bank (RIP, effectively) is/was wholly owned by the retail Coop groups; it was never a Coop itself in any way, which many still seem not to understand.
Not long ago it was humiliatingly forced to admit that its vaunted Ethical Policy never applied to its clients!
Large chunks of those groups - insurance, funerals, farmland - are now facing losing their historic status or being sold off as part of the same meltdown.

Like you, I regard this as a tragedy; unlike you, I don't share the state of denial that leads people to believe that a hollowed-out shell is still the same as it always was, simply because the label is the same, and to make excuses - or fail to address entirely - the history of mismanagement and grandiose delusions that has led to this disaster.

Trying to exempt the Coop for its past conduct because of its present fire-sale ownership is grotesque.

And as for this: ' are you actually suggesting that it is the role of a High Street bank to help the poor?'

Oh dear, oh dear! I'm suggesting that it is precisely the reason for existence of the Cooperative Movement to do that: having been the proud owners of a bank, they were in pole position to be the innovative leaders in the field of micro-finance in this country, instead of being the first high street bank simply to redline the poor altogether, a shameful falling-away from principle.
Please don't scrape the excuse barrel further.

We probably agree on most social questions, though not their solutions; but constantly mistaking appearances and promises for reality will get nowhere, as the sad history of the Coop has shown.

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