My paladin for example can have a fully healed ehren, cassiel, knight of westlock, angel, and a buffed mage by turn 6. Except that as long as my temple is alive I will always have action advantage.

Presumably you have thrown a Harmonise down on the Temple to do that. If not, the Temple will not give you an action advantage since you'll have to use a Cleric's action to allow the Temple's action.

I think I'm with Obsidian on this one.

A Double Crystal turn 1, followed by hard cast every turn would give 5 fairly beefy creatures during turn 6 (let's say a pair of Knights of Westlock, a temple high guard, a guardian angel and a highland unicorn), with a few mana spare for a couple of little pieces of equipment or enchantments on the mage or the creatures.

I would have one more creature than you, and I'd wager the above set of five(+mage) against your suggested four(+mage) most days of the week.

Additionally, if you spend some of that spare change mana on a push or teleport, the mobile spawn point that is the Mage moves as well, whereas the temple is static. So my creatures are possibly better placed than yours.

All theoretical, of course, but I have always found the Temple of Asyra to be quite a weak spawnpoint due to the costs involved (in actions and mana) to get it working effectively.

And im not sold on it.If i change Obsidians Spellbook a bit:Remove the 2 Mana Crystals and the Moonglow Amulet, replace with Temple of Asyra and Asyran Cleric + Meditation Amulet.

Rather than having 13 channeling i would have 10+3+1+1. With the hardcasting Priestess not being able to move i cant see how she can take out the temple. Or take out anything early on actually.

Vs an aggro player the hardcasting might be better, but likely not vs a turtle like herself.

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Meditation Amulets require full actions to use, so I do not particularly see how that is much better, since you are not moving while you generate mana. It is also quite a target for a Dissolve if they see you using it each turn. Anyway, you are still having to stay in the back with your Temple since you are not summoning creatures with your Mage, and Priestesses lose if they turtle (something silverclawgrizzly taught me during our first few months of playing).

Meditation Amulets require full actions to use, so I do not particularly see how that is much better, since you are not moving while you generate mana. It is also quite a target for a Dissolve if they see you using it each turn. Anyway, you are still having to stay in the back with your Temple since you are not summoning creatures with your Mage, and Priestesses lose if they turtle (something silverclawgrizzly taught me during our first few months of playing).

I think Biblo's point is with med amulet and temple, you have better action economy and mana generation. You likely won't dissolve it until at least round 7 since you want to hardcast.How do Priestesses lose if they turtle? I don't follow the logic here?

Meditation Amulets require full actions to use, so I do not particularly see how that is much better, since you are not moving while you generate mana. It is also quite a target for a Dissolve if they see you using it each turn. Anyway, you are still having to stay in the back with your Temple since you are not summoning creatures with your Mage, and Priestesses lose if they turtle (something silverclawgrizzly taught me during our first few months of playing).

Well you can´t dissolve the Meditation Amulet when your stuck in your starting corner and your opponent stays in her starting corner.

So Meditation Amulet and Temple seems to be +2 mana vs your book.

Also imagine going with Temple + Asyrian Cleric and a Mana Crystal. (or an extra cleric)Now mana is the same, but she has +1 action.

I don´t think your doing real well vs other mages with a spawnpoint and a stronger/larger army.Wizard, Druid, Necromancer, Warlords and Beastmasters comes to mind.

All of these could have better economy and more actions than you.

Quote from: Obsidian Soul on January 13, 2018, 06:39:50 PM

"It is easy enough to deal with a priestess that depends on a Temple. A Priestess spends 10 mana to summon the Temple, meaning that she suffers from a 10 mana deficit, and she gets only an extra mana every turn and an extra action every other turn from it. A hardcast priestess can use that 10 mana to gain +2 channeling from Mana Crystals."

This is what i disagree with. You seem to be arguing that its easy to deal with a Temple Priestess. I don´t think so. Especial not if you won´t be able to launch an attack on her before turn 10 or so.

I agree here. There seems to be an idea that an agressive book will beat a "base builder" priestess. Any good priestess book will drop angels, armour, and other defenses that will blunt an attack when it comes. At the earliest a book will attack at turn 3-4 as you have to get to my side of the board. In that time I can ancipate such from your opening. If your coming to me then I'd rather drop a forge and crystals, get to 13c and drop an angel and brace etc. The longer you leave a temple build the stronger it gets. It may be seen as slow but it is a turtle, armoured and it wins a slower race.

My paladin for example can have a fully healed ehren, cassiel, knight of westlock, angel, and a buffed mage by turn 6. Except that as long as my temple is alive I will always have action advantage.

Presumably you have thrown a Harmonise down on the Temple to do that. If not, the Temple will not give you an action advantage since you'll have to use a Cleric's action to allow the Temple's action.

I think I'm with Obsidian on this one.

A Double Crystal turn 1, followed by hard cast every turn would give 5 fairly beefy creatures during turn 6 (let's say a pair of Knights of Westlock, a temple high guard, a guardian angel and a highland unicorn), with a few mana spare for a couple of little pieces of equipment or enchantments on the mage or the creatures.

I would have one more creature than you, and I'd wager the above set of five(+mage) against your suggested four(+mage) most days of the week.

Additionally, if you spend some of that spare change mana on a push or teleport, the mobile spawn point that is the Mage moves as well, whereas the temple is static. So my creatures are possibly better placed than yours.

All theoretical, of course, but I have always found the Temple of Asyra to be quite a weak spawnpoint due to the costs involved (in actions and mana) to get it working effectively.

I honestly think that people underestimate the temple fair too often.I have tried harmonizing a temple and I have never found it worth it, it is too much investment for me.The whole notion that you lose action advantage if you use clerics to pray I just don't understand. Asyran Clerics are extremely versatile and I can say after 6+ months of paladin experience that they are well worth it in every game. Even against super aggro books, they aren't a terrible choice.

Yeah I hear ya Red. I've been doing 3-5 asyran cleric temple Priest for years and it takes people by surprise quite a bit. the 1 armor and 6 life is surprising just out of reach for instant kill and usually people don't bother wasting actions killing them. That turns into free healing or damage every round. That being said I am not a fan of temple turn 1 or Harmonize.