I missed 2012 and it was a shame. I've resolved to not miss 2013, especially for the same reason as last year. So here is the idea. Next summer I will spend as much time as I can muster back in the saddle of a bike. This is primarily because I love to ride bikes, but secondarily because I now have a disorder which precludes driving. That's right, no more cars for this hombre. In many ways this is already the direction my life was headed so its no big deal. Hell, I've lived for long periods of time without a car.

But then the thought occurs to me, what about celebrating my favorite and now necessitated mode of transportation by making it the central theme of this week of Bacchanal? Would there be others out there interested in cycle touring to the burn? Would it be possible, by getting there collectively to share the load and develop a freaking comfortable and awesome camp with potentially the option of a ride home at the end?

I've been a project manager for many years now and the vision for this is about half fleshed out in my head. Is there anyone else out there that would be interested in combining super powers to make a 2013 theme camp of cycle tourists?

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

What a car centric view. I mean all those people touring all over the world on roads packed with cars being driven by tired, strung out drivers must also be risking life and limb. Shit man, everyone should get a car. And when I say car, what I actually mean is a big fucking SUV, because a "car" as it were isn't going to be nearly big enough. In fact, now that I look around and actually see what is being driven screw that, there are only maybe two SUVs that qualify. Hell I need a tractor trailer without the trailer. I mean what could happen if I were to become involved in an "accident". I need all that mass to save my ass.

Seriously, you've both vastly overstated the danger inherent with getting to the burn by bike. With planning and some radical self reliance it can be done safely . Nevada is one of the 20-something states with a 3 foot rule. A SAGed ride would improve the situation considerably. And lets not forget I'm looking for cyclists with some experience; people who ride at least as much as I do. Not cagers who wouldn't consider riding across the desert regardless of the destination.

Notice nowhere in the original post did I say "Hey, looking for people who wont be interesting in riding their bike to the Burn. I could really use some uninformed hyperbole from people who don't ride." Rather I've posted a query seeking riders who are informed and might be interested in forming a theme camp together based around the idea of bicycle independence. This same post has been left at a variety of bicycle boards as well.

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

Hey Saguache, and Merry Christmas to you! I'm a big fan of bicycling and I applaud your initiative.

But we are replying outside your stated parameters because we are concerned about life and limb, including yours.

We wonder if you are adequately familiar with Hwy 447 and the last stretch beyond it? The rule to the effect that motorists must give bicyclists three feet clearance is good and well, but on much of this road there simply is no three feet available. When one of us comes traveling with a motor home or truck or old school bus (me), and one of the many 18-wheelers who travel this road comes the other way, there is simply no room to give you -- both motor vehicles' tires will be right close to the edge of the pavement to keep our rear view mirrors from colliding. Technically, at least one of us is then supposed to slow down or stop to avoid this three-abreast situation, but the reality is that such avoidance is grimly unlikely to be successfully performed.

Everyone needs at least 1.5 gallons of water per day they are on the playa. A gallon of water weighs 8.35 lbs so that is a weight premium of 12.5 lbs of water per day. So for 7 days it would be 87.5 lbs alone... plus camping gear, clothing, food, etc.

The highway 447 does not have a paved shoulder. If two larger vehicles meet on the highway they barely stay on the pavement.

Not to mention the altitude, and heat. ...

Tell us your well thought out ideas, and you will probably get a bit of support.

Since you have indicated this is your first year, we (those of use who have attended for years) have some skepticism on your ability to safely pull this off.

Love Rice

Roach: "I feel like in this day and age, every girl should know how to build a flamethrower."

Elliot wrote::D Hey Saguache, and Merry Christmas to you! I'm a big fan of bicycling and I applaud your initiative.

But we are replying outside your stated parameters because we are concerned about life and limb, including yours.

We wonder if you are adequately familiar with Hwy 447 and the last stretch beyond it? The rule to the effect that motorists must give bicyclists three feet clearance is good and well, but on much of this road there simply is no three feet available. When one of us comes traveling with a motor home or truck or old school bus (me), and one of the many 18-wheelers who travel this road comes the other way, there is simply no room to give you -- both motor vehicles' tires will be right close to the edge of the pavement to keep our rear view mirrors from colliding. Technically, at least one of us is then supposed to slow down or stop to avoid this three-abreast situation, but the reality is that such avoidance is grimly unlikely to be successfully performed.

I just want you to have the facts in front of you when you plan.

All my best!

Howdy Elliot,

Appreciate the concern, I've ridden (not to the Burn) and driven 447 before and yes I can appreciate that fact that there isnt much siding along its length.

RIght now my rough plan of ingress is to come from 95/47 from the east. While it shares similar road design with 447 it does not share the traffic volume prior to the burn. Additionally, and I'm sure you can appreciate this because you bike, I rather enter the valley at least a day before the burn traffic does. This will, according to prior experience, spread the traffic out considerably so that the three whay you describe is less likely.

Finally, I know that the trip can be ridden (with some precautions) because in 2010 I camped next to a dude who accomplished it. I can appreciate the fact that there is the potential to die along the way, but from a cyclist's perspective this is a constant risk, I may not make it to the burn because someone runs me over on the way to the grocery store.

Hope to talk with you more, if I can get this thing going I'd love to see if we can possition ourselves closely.

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

junglesmacks wrote:I hate to say it, but that reply was 110% stereotypical obnoxious bicyclist-with-a-chip-on-the-shoulder. This isn't a big bad car vs. poor cyclist thing, this is a logical safety issue.

Props to Elliot for explaining it in a clear, concise manner.

Yes props to Elliot, he's been sticking to bike mode for years and at least has the thoughtfulness to avoid pushing buttons. Now as far as obnoxious goes, who posted first? Seriously, Junglesmacks do you think cyclists aren't aware of the risks they undertake when they ride? For that matter, to a guy who has ridden across Nevada a couple of times do you think anything you've said above is news?

Stop and check yourself, ask yourself why that guy riding on the right might have a chip on his shoulder, then give him some room because thats the least you can do.

Then enjoy a nice cup of shut-the-fuck-up

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

Everyone needs at least 1.5 gallons of water per day they are on the playa. A gallon of water weighs 8.35 lbs so that is a weight premium of 12.5 lbs of water per day. So for 7 days it would be 87.5 lbs alone... plus camping gear, clothing, food, etc.

Ten people is the target, 20 days to bike to the burn, 1.5 gallons per person, that's 300 gallons and can more than easily be carried by a truck or van in a truck bed water tank. Notice I did mention SAG in the original post. I would prefer to make this as self supported as possible however, so the water truck would drive ahead and meet cyclists at pre-determined locations. Nevada can be a pain in the butt to cross on bike otherwise because water stops are so infrequent and often even when they are marked on the map they may not actually have water.

stretch80 wrote:The highway 447 does not have a paved shoulder. If two larger vehicles meet on the highway they barely stay on the pavement.

See my response to Elliot, not to mention if you can't keep your vehicle on the pavement you probably shouldnt be driving. The layout of the road is spacious left from right its 26' leaving each lane 13' of clearance. Most vehicles on the road aren't more than 10' wide. Like the law says, if you're uncomfortable passing slow down.

stretch80 wrote:Not to mention the altitude, and heat. ...

I live about 3000' higher than most of the high passes in this state. Getting there is a more or less down hill ride. I'm looking into the train or the bus to get most of the way home at this point just so it dosen't become a month long trip. The heat is more often than not handled with loose fitting clothing and a good hat, you know, sort of like how you deal with it on the playa.

stretch80 wrote:Tell us your well thought out ideas, and you will probably get a bit of support.

Since you have indicated this is your first year, we (those of use who have attended for years) have some skepticism on your ability to safely pull this off.

I indicated that this was my first year biking to the burn, not my first year biking in NV nor my first year going to a burn. Last year I had a ticket and was also dealing with a fresh medical disorder that precluded me from driving anywhere. This year its far less fresh, I still can't drive. Sooooo, I'm back to biking everywhere. There is currently 4' of snow on the ground and its below zero and I'm about ready to get on my bike to get some food from the store miles away. I don't just believe that biking can be a full time and adiquate replacement for driving a car, I know it is (and yes I'm dressing for it cause its chilly).

I don't have have it all sorted out yet, but I know that it can be sorted and turn the Burn into a destination that few other cyclists will achieve. Sort of like adding icing to the cake in my opinion, anyone can get there in an RV. I am looking for like minded people who are interested in figuring it out for similar reasons. Not people who are going to instantaneously say something to the effect of "biking to the burn is impossible, there are cars on the road."

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

thisisthatwhichis wrote:Oh, great..... 10+ cyclists to try an avoid on the way in. Please let us know what day you plan to do this, so I can pick another day to go in.....

After all, it's all about you.

Wow, the irony. Cyclists are somehow harder to avoid than tractors, or perhaps cyclists are more difficult to pass than cars? Seriously, did you read what you wrote before you hit the sumbit button? Roads my friend are all about people getting from point A to point B. If we share them they work better. If you create a segment of the population that no longer has access to the roads then you've gone and invalidated the public nature of the infrastructure.

Have a cup of shut-the-fuck-up

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

thisisthatwhichis wrote:Oh, great..... 10+ cyclists to try an avoid on the way in. Please let us know what day you plan to do this, so I can pick another day to go in.....

After all, it's all about you.

I'll agree with TITWI, but I'll add:So many bikers, love the sport. We get that.And, so many do their best, to not impede traffic.....but we also run into the "self entitled" bikers, who get in a lane, riding maybe 15 mph?, and you can see the delight on their faces of the traffic backing up.Bikes don't pay road fees or license, yet, demand lanes and rights and all.

Sure, no one wants to hurt someone else. But you are trying to take advantage of that (it appears), by saying how "the law" says to give you 3 feet clearance, and how we should slow down, rather than pass and inconvenience you.How about: When you see traffic coming, you ride off the side and stand and wait for them to go by? Safe? yup. Oh, that'd impede your progress? Hhmm........but it's ok to impede those on the road who can't get by you?.......hhhhhmmm.........

and know, traffic for 2 weeks before, is pretty bad, but yeah, the day before and the first few days, are when the: janky, half ass packed with package twine and bungees Honda, with a trailer 3 times too big, with shit hanging out all over because it was not tied right, and fishtailing because the dumb shit driving is going too fast and the trailer is not loaded right" comes by, and the second set of laws we live under begin to kick it:"The law of unintended consequences" and "Darwins law".

I think you see alot of us here attempting to dissuade you, and fee we don't like you (probably true for some), but some of us want you to go, and have a great time. And feel heartsick when someone gets hurt or killed, due to lack of comprehending the situation there.

So, if you go, I hope you make it safe.If you don't get there in one piece, know some will say "I told you so", and some will shed a tear, because a good person didn't listen.

I don't recall too many blind curves, but blind hills aplenty. And, certainly, minimal shoulder space. Passing another vehicle, with all that other space in the opposing lane is harrowing enough...if you want to risk your own life, riding an already dangerous road, packed with inexperienced drivers, go for it! But, that you are putting some of those inexperienced drivers at risk, by becoming Another obstacle, is selfish and dare I say criminal?...when you are aware of the danger you knowingly create... Just ride share. And bike in from the playa entrance...or arrange to be picked up on 80 and do so..

Stop saying "I told you so", stop pointing out how it can be dangerous to ride a bike. I originally intended this as a post to see if there was any interest in a theme camp of cyclists. Specifically cyclists that enjoy long distance, self-supported touring. Yes, I know cars have considerably more mass. But guess what, I'm one of those people who for reasons of his own chooses to move at a slower pace under his own power. You can't convince me to move around otherwise, because, more often than not this is the only option I have save walking.

So hence forth, its not a question. You cannot agree or disagree with my mode of travel because it never was a question.

You can say, "Oh that sounds like a really cool way to go to the burn. I'll post that I might like to sort out the details with Sag."

Or you might say, "Nope, I don't ride a bike. I think its a sport and not an activity I'd enjoy. Or I enjoy driving my car. But, that means I'm not interested in this here theme camp and just like I wouldn't say anything about someone joining a pretty-pony camp of gay, acrobatic, clowns that I'm not interested in joining I'll respect this here camp's potential and move on to the next fucking post. Hell, they might have good drinks and by unnecessarily stereotyping them as 'angry cyclists' and persecuting that idea months, nae, nearly a year before the burn I'd be removing a potential source from my drinks pool."

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

You're right, we can't dictate your mode of transportation, just give you advice. Since you seem too arrogant to listen to it, just please tell us what day you intend to do this. I want to avoid your bunch of bikes for my own protection.

I know you are taking the risk of your own life, but (g*d forbid) if there is a fatal accident, the State could hit any of us with manslaughter charges. That also tends to F*ck up one's life.

So hence forth, its not a question. You cannot agree or disagree with my mode of travel because it never was a question.

We CAN disagree with your mode of transportation! Especially when it poses an unnecessary risk to US! Don't take it personally. Just realize that as fun or necessary, cycling may be for getting to the burn, its a horrible fucking idea! Even for experienced cyclists... Bicycles pose an uneccessary risk to all who share the road. Get over it.

thisisthatwhichis wrote:You're right, we can't dictate your mode of transportation, just give you advice. Since you seem too arrogant to listen to it, just please tell us what day you intend to do this. I want to avoid your bunch of bikes for my own protection.

I know you are taking the risk of your own life, but (g*d forbid) if there is a fatal accident, the State could hit any of us with manslaughter charges. That also tends to F*ck up one's life.

Now you've not only ruined your life, but those of others.

Don't forget to flip us off as we drive around you

Advice is best recieved WHEN ITS REQUESTED!

And thanks for the hyperbolic poo-poo reply. The US, and especially Nevada, ain't Europe where if you hit a cyclist you'd immediatly be liable for wrong doing. Rather, this is a country where the pilot of the automobile is immediately assumed to be blameless regaurdless of the circumstances of an "accident". So in the off chance that you hit me and kill me the magic words are "I didn't see him, boo hoo hoo."

Have any of you guys bothered to look at a map of the area recently? Along most of the major corridors of travel there are a number of parallel routes, often dirt, but that's not much of a problem to a cycle tourist. Interestingly, as a cycle tourist I'm usually loath to ride a road with crazy traffic. I can ride in crazy traffic if needed, but I try to avoid these sorts of encounters if at all possible. Frankly, it makes the ride, any ride so much more enjoyable. Getting off the pavement often means a more plesant progress too; have you noticed that most use automotive designers put the exhaust pipe on the right hand side and then point it at the white line? I have, because it gets my attention every time I have to hold my breath when a Dodge diesel passes me.

So to those of you making the assumption that anyone would want to be sharing Hwy 447 with you, its a bad assumption.

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

Saguache wrote:So hence forth, its not a question. You cannot agree or disagree with my mode of travel because it never was a question.

You can say, "Oh that sounds like a really cool way to go to the burn. I'll post that I might like to sort out the details with Sag."

Well said! I know if we were attending 2013 burn, my husband would love to join your group but alas, that's not the case.Good luck. I hope you find a good group and have a safe trip to BRC!

Thanks wh..sh,

Next time eh? Maybe if we can find enough people and get some momentum going this might turn out to be one of those annual migrations. Even if you're not going to the burn this year, if you'd like to offer input (above and beyond the ubiquitous "don't bike") I'd sure be willing to receive it.

-- Inspire or empower your neighbor, the rest is a waste of precious time

so you post a thread suggesting biking to the burn. immediately expeirenced burners say not to, and why not. Your response is to argue and call them cagers or worse. Let me say, these guys have seen the results of stupidity on 447 and entrance to the playa as have I, so they aren't being anti-bike they are being pro safety,now you could of said actually "i dont plan to ride on the main highway there is a parallel path so i wont be getting in your way" or you could have mentioned you would see if you could get someone with a car to follow you or any number of better response than

Saguache wrote:Have a cup of shut-the-fuck-up

this is not the way to get people to help you acheive your desire especially as you have already pointed out you cannot do it yourself ( you need someone to bring water etc)

FREE THE SHERPASBurners with torches is right and natural and just.-fishy.CATCH AND RELEASE.