It's about as good as you can get and certainly the R58 is not better, I have extensively tested both. The temps in the R58 brew boiler fluctuated greatly, due to it's size and design. I don't know how they have handled that with the current machine, if it's not fluctuating, perhaps hidden it within the PID like La Spaziale used to do with temperature overshoots on their temperature display...which would not display a temp higher than the one you set! Styeaming was also lacklustre, but I believe has been improved a little.

There is also a lot to like in the Duetto over the R58. The Quickmill DB may prove a worthy competitor, we shall have to see.

The Duettos main problems are it's size and look, plus it has made small incremental improvements which have done nothing to improve it's function (some even make it worse) BUT it has got a LOT more expensive. I would have liked to seem them move it to the next level by now, but they are just sitting on their laurels. They did this before many years ago and sales of a particular machine plummeted as the rest of the market moved on.

I really like the R58 myself. What I don't like about Rocket, is you have to pay extra for a stainless rail (minus the R58) and the prices are substantially higher than other makes. I like the hidden PID on the R58 though. It's not something I care to look at 24/7. I also like that the R58 is slightly narrower than the Duetto 3. Where I am putting the machine, I can probably squeeze a Mazzer Mini Type-A in next to the R58, but certainly not the Duetto 3. If I can get a slight discount, the R58 V2 will play in my overall decision.

I really like the R58 myself. What I don't like about Rocket, is you have to pay extra for a stainless rail (minus the R58) and the prices are substantially higher than other makes. I like the hidden PID on the R58 though. It's not something I care to look at 24/7. I also like that the R58 is slightly narrower than the Duetto 3. Where I am putting the machine, I can probably squeeze a Mazzer Mini Type-A in next to the R58, but certainly not the Duetto 3. If I can get a slight discount, the R58 V2 will play in my overall decision.

In the one I tested, you couldn't even set the PID parameters for tuning, no offset could be programmed in and one was blind to what the PID was actually doing, the machine would not even run without the PD attached by that esthetically pleasing cable (mine was a flat ribbon cable at the time?

And you prefer this?

It also would have taken no real imagination/engineering for any of the manufacturers to put the Gicar PID unit where you couldn't see it. It could have been at the back or side of the machine, or in a box on an extension cable....but fortunately they didn't.

You can't go wrong by buying a Rocket Espresso machine. When you open up the machine, you'll see why it costs than some others. Copper tubing throughout and quality construction. Rocket's styling is second to none, in my opinion.

In the one I tested, you couldn't even set the PID parameters for tuning, no offset could be programmed in and one was blind to what the PID was actually doing, the machine would not even run without the PD attached by that esthetically pleasing cable (mine was a flat ribbon cable at the time?

And you prefer this?

It also would have taken no real imagination/engineering for any of the manufacturers to put the Gicar PID unit where you couldn't see it. It could have been at the back or side of the machine, or in a box on an extension cable....but fortunately they didn't.

That is what I said...yes. I don't want to look at a PID 24/7. I stated it in my original post and understand why Rocket did this. Some people have Islands where the machine can be seen 360 degrees, or from more angles than one. I will be one of them. It's obvious you don't like Rocket, your attitude towards them and those inquiring, or mentioning them as an option, shows, and simply astounds me.

That is what I said...yes. I don't want to look at a PID 24/7. I stated it in my original post and understand why Rocket did this. Some people have Islands where the machine can be seen 360 degrees, or from more angles than one. I will be one of them. It's obvious you don't like Rocket, your attitude towards them and those inquiring, or mentioning them as an option, shows and astounds me.

I agree. Dave comes across as very biased against Rocket. All of the other manufacturers have just slapped a PID on the front of their machines without any consideration of how the machine looks. Rocket focuses on styling and quality. Having a separate PID is consistent with Rocket's design philosophy. An external, detachable PID doesn't detract from the usability of the machine, based on my experience with PID'd machines.

If you value product design, then Rocket's R58 will appeal to you. If you don't like the design, then buy another machine. It's a personal choice and doesn't mean a machine like a Duetto is better than an R58.

I agree. Dave comes across as very biased against Rocket. All of the other manufacturers have just slapped a PID on the front of their machines without any consideration of how the machine looks. Rocket focuses on styling and quality. Having a separate PID is consistent with Rocket's design philosophy. An external, detachable PID doesn't detract from the usability of the machine, based on my experience with PID'd machines.

If you value product design, then Rocket's R58 will appeal to you. If you don't like the design, then buy another machine. It's a personal choice and doesn't mean a machine like a Duetto is better than an R58.

Your putting words into my mouth, I didn't say it was better, I did say that the Duetto was not worse in temperature control. I actually own both machines along with a number of others. I have also been fortunate enough to have extensively tested and used 30 or so other prosumer machines of all types. I see a lot stuff discussed about all sorts of machines that is just plain incorrect and comparisons made which are unfair. I try not to be biased, but apply facts based on actual experience to my opinions.. I'm not biased against Rocket at all, I have reviewed a few of their machines including the R58 and I don't believe they are a bad manufacturer. They certainly try to do the right thing.

You make a lot of assumptions about why manufacturers do things....perhaps not all of them correct. It now feels a bit feels like I am dealing with people who might perhaps have more limited experience with the different machines on the market. Best I leave this thread for those who want to believe whatever they want to...

Your putting words into my mouth, I didn't say it was better, I did say that the Duetto was not worse in temperature control. I actually own both machines along with a number of others. I have also been fortunate enough to have extensively tested and used 30 or so other prosumer machines of all types. I see a lot stuff discussed about all sorts of machines that is just plain incorrect and comparisons made which are unfair. I try not to be biased, but apply facts based on actual experience to my opinions.. I'm not biased against Rocket at all, I have reviewed a few of their machines including the R58 and I don't believe they are a bad manufacturer. They certainly try to do the right thing.

You make a lot of assumptions about why manufacturers do things....perhaps not all of them correct. It now feels a bit feels like I am dealing with people who might perhaps have more limited experience with the different machines on the market. Best I leave this thread for those who want to believe whatever they want to...

It is quite obvious to me that you certainly know what you are talking about and give facts which some people may not like. I'm looking forward to your review of the QM Vetrano 2B and hopefully an ECM DB!!

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