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Well-Known Member

the sentence stating "a man can die without knowing Jesus and still receive resurrection" is not accurate either. Primitive Baptists believe wholeheartedly that EVERY elect will know Christ through Regeneration. What Primitive Baptists DENY is that every elect person will hear the Gospel. There is an enormous difference between the two concepts.

So I would be interested to hear what "NEW SCHOOL" Baptists think about the above paragraph. Please advise. thanks.

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Well-Known Member

the sentence stating "a man can die without knowing Jesus and still receive resurrection" is not accurate either. Primitive Baptists believe wholeheartedly that EVERY elect will know Christ through Regeneration. What Primitive Baptists DENY is that every elect person will hear the Gospel. There is an enormous difference between the two concepts.

So I would be interested to hear what "NEW SCHOOL" Baptists think about the above paragraph. Please advise. thanks.

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I had a conversation with a PB preacher several years ago and the talk got around to the heathen nations being saved or not saved without the gospel. I used the American Indians as an example before the white man brought the gospel to them. This is what he said. quote: Take for example a Indian riding along one day on his horse and God regenerates him. It's possible the Indian might think the horse had something to do with what just happened to him, he doesn't really know for sure but he knows a change has been made in him unquote. IMO if a man has never been taught who Jesus is, how can that person know anything about the person.

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Well-Known Member

I had a conversation with a PB preacher several years ago and the talk got around to the heathen nations being saved or not saved without the gospel. I used the American Indians as an example before the white man brought the gospel to them. This is what he said. quote: Take for example a Indian riding along one day on his horse and God regenerates him. It's possible the Indian might think the horse had something to do with what just happened to him, he doesn't really know for sure but he knows a change has been made in him unquote. IMO if a man has never been taught who Jesus is, how can that person know anything about the person.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

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Well-Known Member

I had a conversation with a PB preacher several years ago and the talk got around to the heathen nations being saved or not saved without the gospel. I used the American Indians as an example before the white man brought the gospel to them. This is what he said. quote: Take for example a Indian riding along one day on his horse and God regenerates him. It's possible the Indian might think the horse had something to do with what just happened to him, he doesn't really know for sure but he knows a change has been made in him unquote. IMO if a man has never been taught who Jesus is, how can that person know anything about the person.

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Funny you mention the Indian... I am also of the PB brethren... Check the history what the white mans religion did to the Indian. Lets see the Indian believed in the Great White Spirit, Heaven (a happy hunting ground). Where did he get that belief?... Were Indians the people of God. Sounds to me like they are. The fool say in his heart there is no God!... Since God writes his law in the hearts and minds of his people an to me the Indians are his people before the white man interfered and told him he wasn't!... Check history and get on a different horse!

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Well-Known Member

Funny you mention the Indian... I am also of the PB brethren... Check the history what the white mans religion did to the Indian. Lets see the Indian believed in the Great White Spirit, Heaven (a happy hunting ground). Where did he get that belief?... Were Indians the people of God. Sounds to me like they are. The fool say in his heart there is no God!... Since God writes his law in the hearts and minds of his people an to me the Indians are his people before the white man interfered and told him he wasn't!... Check history and get on a different horse!

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Well-Known Member

Funny you mention the Indian... I am also of the PB brethren... Check the history what the white mans religion did to the Indian. Lets see the Indian believed in the Great White Spirit, Heaven (a happy hunting ground). Where did he get that belief?... Were Indians the people of God. Sounds to me like they are. The fool say in his heart there is no God!... Since God writes his law in the hearts and minds of his people an to me the Indians are his people before the white man interfered and told him he wasn't!... Check history and get on a different horse!

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I don't have to check history as I have a lot of Indian blood in my veins. The red man worshiped many Gods before the white man came. The bear is my brother and the earth is my mother. I also believe because they believed in many gods the true and living God brought judgment upon them unto this day. Human's will worship something even if they have never came into contact with civilization. Happy hunting ground, Great Spirit and even the word Indian is white man's words.

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Well-Known Member

I don't have to check history as I have a lot of Indian blood in my veins. The red man worshiped many Gods before the white man came. The bear is my brother and the earth is my mother. I also believe because they believed in many gods the true and living God brought judgment upon them unto this day. Human's will worship something even if they have never came into contact with civilization. Happy hunting ground, Great Spirit and even the word Indian is white man's words.

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I can see your point and stand corrected, knowing that in the OT God also brought judgement upon Israel. So you feel that this was Gods judgement upon your people?... If I'm not reading you right please tell me, I'm only searching for the truth. Did not mean to offend anyone!:tonofbricks:

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Well-Known Member

Supporter

Funny you mention the Indian... I am also of the PB brethren... Check the history what the white mans religion did to the Indian. Lets see the Indian believed in the Great White Spirit, Heaven (a happy hunting ground). Where did he get that belief?... Were Indians the people of God. Sounds to me like they are. The fool say in his heart there is no God!... Since God writes his law in the hearts and minds of his people an to me the Indians are his people before the white man interfered and told him he wasn't!... Check history and get on a different horse!

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I didn't hear "Jesus is Lord" in any of that. Certainly they need to be aware of the man who bore their sin, no?

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Well-Known Member

PB’s have characteristically held, not to “Lordship Salvation” but, to “Temporal Salvation”. That is to say, our position has been that there is a distinction to be made between Sonship and Discipleship—between being a child of God and being a follower of Jesus Christ.

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to make a long story short, a few of our preachers became enamored with (or you might even say “star-struck by” MacArthur and Sproul and Jay Adams and other popular figures in the “reformed” evangelical community, and they began to subscribe to his views on “perseverance” or “Lordship Salvation”. When these ministers began to circulate these views among the Old Baptists and sought to implement a new paradigm of Biblical interpretation that blurred the classic distinctions between sonship and discipleship—that is, when they married both concepts and taught that regeneration inevitably leads to gospel repentance, faith, and obedience—they stirred confusion among the PB’s.

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[The Calvinistic view of perseverance] fosters a climate of condescension and judgmentalism. It creates a culture of super-saints, who do everything right—from homeschooling, to raising organic vegetables, to taking notes in church and repeating a catechism—and then proceed to scrutinize the rest of us under a cloak of “concern”. It is not a gospel for sinners, but for the righteous – for people who have all the boxes checked. It sets a person up as a judge to determine whether or not another individual has truly been saved.

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New Member

Same place I would put the infants and babies... I'll let the judge do what he deems is right. Elect infants... elect imbeciles... and so on.

It does not change my point. The gospel at its core is about Jesus. No Jesus, no gospel. No gospel, no salvation.

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Sure it changes your point. It's either infants and the mentally impaired are elected or they aren't, (no gospel, no salvation), your words. I usually sit back in the corners on here but I've watched that discussion played out and contradicted in the same paragraph so many times it wears thin.

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Well-Known Member

Sure it changes your point. It's either infants and the mentally impaired are elected or they aren't, (no gospel, no salvation), your words. I usually sit back in the corners on here but I've watched that discussion played out and contradicted in the same paragraph so many times it wears thin.

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All to true....but I think it totally ignores the mercy of God above all things and it makes for a hard and fast religious society hell bent on being right vs seeing the mercyful side of our Lord....quite a ball of confusion when viewied incorrectly.

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Well-Known Member

Remember Scripture before blaming anyone. The Lord mercies who He chooses to and hardens who He chooses as well. He always does right. Puny mortals do not have the same perspective that God has --to say the least. God is not in the dock. He is the Judge --not a defendant.

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Well-Known Member

Remember Scripture before blaming anyone. The Lord mercies who He chooses to and hardens who He chooses as well. He always does right. Puny mortals do not have the same perspective that God has --to say the least. God is not in the dock. He is the Judge --not a defendant.

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I don't blame stupid mortals....I just don't trust them to interpert scripture properly.

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