73 comments

163ct034. One other point. Are the extensive statistics you quoted derived from EU sources? If so, you seem very trusting of an organisation that appears to have great difficulty in having a clean bill of health each year from its auditors. Call me cynical, but I would have great difficulty in giving credibility to figures produced by an organisation desparate to justify its existence.

163ct034. Having a different opinion doesn't equate with gullibility. Neither is a desire to leave the EU incompatible with a wish to see Wales prosper. Rightly or wrongly, my considered belief is that a UK outside the stifling millstone of EU bureaucracy will be significantly more prosperous and better able to compete with the US and the emerging BRIC economies. The trade barriers that the EU and, formerly the EEC, erected against our former trading partners in the Commonwealth and beyond, resulted in a significant rise in the cost of living in the UK. Wales may have benefitted from some EU grants and regional aid, but Is Welsh agriculture healthier now than before 1975? Has our fishing fleet expanded since we joined up? Has the Welsh steel industry grown? The answer to all of these is a resounding no.
Regrettably, the three main parties in the UK have sold the country down the river in the last 37 years and the current bunch of timid career politicians of these three parties are totally disconnected from the opinions of the man or woman in the street.
For all his faults, Farage is down to earth and has the conjones to say what he thinks.
Lastly, it is highly unlikely that the bureaucrats of Brussels have any greater concern for the population of Wales than the Civil Service mandarins in London. For all its faults, the UK government does answer to the electorate every 5 years, whereas the EU does not seem answerable to anyone. UK democracy is far from perfect, but is a damn sight more democratic than the bungling bureaucratic autocracy enjoying the gravy train shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg.
Only time will tell where the future takes us, but freeing ourselves from the shambles that the EU has become has to be a better bet than hanging on the coat tails of Van Rompuy and his cronies.

Bluenorw you may doubt the economic case but leaving the EU would put thousands of manufacturing jobs and companies at risk, damage our exports to Europe and the wider global market and damage inward investment in UK manufacturing these are the facts. it baffles me why so many so called welsh people who call themselves intelligent would follow a political party that's basically a right wing full of ex Tory edl bnp that's got one policy that's to get us out of Europe. that's a crazy policy don't welsh people realise that Wales and Welsh businesses have benefited enormously for being in Europe from access to the Single Market – the world's largest market in GDP terms and Wales' largest single trading partner – since its inception in 1992.
150,000 jobs in Wales depend on access to the Single Market and the distinct benefits this provides in facilitating trade and investment.
500 firms from other Member States are based in Wales, providing over 59,000 jobs.
The Welsh farming sector benefits significantly from EU funds through the Common Agricultural Policy, providing £260 million a year in single farm payments to more than 16,000 farm businesses in Wales.
Wales also benefits from billions of pounds of European Structural Funds, with some £1.9bn invested to 287 projects, representing £3.7bn of total project investment to help Welsh businesses, communities and environment thrive, and help people into work and training. This investment has: helped 169,000 people to gain qualifications;
helped over 38,700 people into further learning;
helped 55,000 people into work;
created 8,200 enterprises; and
created 24,600 (gross) jobs.
yes get us out of Europe and stay part of a union where the Welsh people are not treated like equal partners with the rest of the UK. you can see we (tongue in cheek )the welsh are better off being part of Britain run from Little England's London The grim truth is we are not pay and living standards prove this yet some want us to leave Europe this would put the nail in the coffin of Wales and send us back to the Stone age.official EU figures show Wales is poorer than countries from former communist countries in Eastern Europe.yes get us out of Europe and make us more poor great idea!. it just proves to me that having a university education doesn't mean that you cant be gullible.

163ct034. I doubt that the economic case is as clear cut as the gentleman from Ford has suggested. Given that the remainder of the EU has significant exports to the UK, the question of import or export tariffs is extremely unlikely to arise. As with many industrial or commercial concerns, corporate bodies are more comfortable with certainties and are fearful of major political change. (Look at the hysteria over Scottish independence) Probably the only industries to suffer would be those with interests in land amd the supply of building materials. If we did not have to build hundreds of thousands of houses to accommodate migrant peoples, then land values (and hopefully house prices) would fall. Given that our major cement manufacturers are now in foreign hands, as are many other companies supplying building materials, would this be a problem? Unlikely, given the extent of imported materials in these categories.
There have been derogatory comments made regarding the level of education of UKIP supporters. I have always had a keen interest in politics, have a university education and find UKIP (but certainly not the BNP fascists) to be the only party that is likely to represent my views on the EU. I have known many intelligent people who support the SWP; they have views which are poles apart from my own but I do not for one minute doubt their intelligence, level of education or sincerity. That is what democracy and freedom of speech is all about.

A good argument and it ought to be raised when there is a referendum for the people to decide for themselves whether or not they want to continue with the European Project.
Personally, I'm not that much against the EU, my concerns with Labour and Conservatives is the erosion of our liberties. E.G Labour wants to introduce citizen ID cards, Conservatives introducing laws that allow the taxman to raid your bank account and both of them increasing surveillance methods on the population. UKIP on the other hand wants smaller state intervention in people's lives.

"The economic case to stay in the EU is overwhelming. The creation of the Single Market was instigated by Britain, and is now the world's largest trading bloc, containing half a billion people with a GDP of £10 trillion."To Britain, membership is estimated to be worth between £31bn and £92bn per year in income gains, or between £1,200 to £3,500 for every household... "On exiting the EU, we would lose not only the benefits of this free trade agreement, but all 37 already in existence. "The benefits of membership overwhelmingly outweigh the costs, and to suggest otherwise is putting politics before economics.". "If, some Tory and Ukip ( the same people in my mind ) Voters want us to to withdraw from the EU then we would also lose out on the benefits of being part of 37 free trade agreements with other parts of the world and fail to be able to participate in the talks for a similar arrangements that could bring as much as £10bn into the UK. To renegotiate all of those would not only be immensely time consuming but more likely to result in the UK having to settle for less favourable terms than if we remained in the EU. ". Leaving the EU would put thousands of manufacturing jobs at risk this was the statement by Stephen Odell, head of Ford Europe, warning of the possible adverse economic consequences that could follow if the UK chose to exit the European Union, Odell said that, in the event of a future UK exit from Europe, Ford would have to re-evaluate its operations in Britain. in his words ("Clearly we wouldn't be alone in doing that. Would it mean tariffs? Would it mean duties? We'd take a look at what it meant," Odell said.
"I would strongly advise against leaving the EU for business purposes, and for employment purposes in the UK.") Ford employs over 8,500 workers directly in the UK at its engine plants in the North West,England South Wales, Dagenham, in R&D in the South East England and in warehousing in the Midlands. Odell's remarks follow similar warnings from Japanese vehicle manufacturers with major operations in the UK – notably Nissan. Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn said of any EU exit: The main aim of the hard-line Eurosceptics is to leave the EU no matter what in the belief that all will be fine and it won't matter in terms of jobs. Stoking up anti-EU sentiment may be popular with the right-wing press,and their small minded followers but it creates uncertainty around jobs and investment. the point is that trade with the European Union contributes directly to over 3 million jobs in the UK – the EU is still one of the major trading partners for UK businesses.leaving the EU would put thousands of manufacturing jobs and companies at risk, damage our exports to Europe and the wider global market and damage inward investment in UK manufacturing. Isolation from the EU for people working in manufacturing is unthinkable. job s would be at risk that's a fact.

There has been minority MPs on TV from both Conservative and Labour saying that UKIP are not a racist party, yet the chant of "wyyyycist" goes on. The recent tweets have been reported out of context and it seems beyond the reach of some, that people can hold personal views on gay lifestyle but at the same time accept it and act in a non-prejudicial manner.

Philosoraptor the race card is the easy to play with UKIP, because so many of their supporters and election candidates keep on saying racist things. Not only that but sexist and homophobic things as well. But at the end of the day that's what the far right do, they can't help themselves it's in their DNA. We saw it in the 1930's and we're seeing it today. Not to worry though one thing we can always be sure about with the extreme right wing is that they always destroy themselves through infighting.

Well, Philosoraptor, if you wish to make general points do not address them to me personally.
Did you watch the video? I have no idea about a "foreign national who follows these UKIP pre-election visits to promote his own agenda to ban them from a legal political establishment." but, frankly, it seems absurd.
"... media propaganda who have a vested interest in ruining UKIP as they are owned by people who are strongly linked with either of the big three parties"? Are you totally barking?
"I will however say now that if you agree to protesting at a political pre-election visit with the aim of disrupting that party's legal standing then you are not a supporter of the democratic system" How can a non-violent protest disrupt a legal standing of a political Party these days?
So, you think that no one has the right to peaceful protest? Or, are you saying that heckling should be made illegal?
Resignations over decades? Please, if you can, list all those who resigned over racist remarks and compare them with those given the boot or suspended by Farage over the last few months.
If you're happy to vote for a Party that does its utmost to get the worst deal for Britain in Europe, that's your democratic right but don't expect everyone to be fooled. Has someone pointed out to you that not only do UKIP MEPs claim expenses to the limit but two of them were jailed for fiddling?