There was a target selected and tasked to a select group of remote viewers. The remote viewers produced a body of work and submitted it within a protocol acceptable by science for the submission and collection of data.

However, some might raise the issue of viewer blindness to the objective. Viewers were told it is an event, and the specific types of events and characteristics of them deemed suitable as targets were apparently available to the viewers ahead of time, further reducing the degree of blindness of the viewers.

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The project manager wants you to come to your own conclusions as to whether or not an event of remote viewing occurred.

If that is the case, then the comments on the Farsight site should have stated so; not phrased the outcome the way it is done there. If the summarizing comments there had said, "Take a look. Are there matches between the session data and the target event?" and no claims of the type made were stated, then I, for one, wouldn't have raised the objections I did. There clearly is data in the sessions which is consistent with the Mena, AR tornado event.

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When a viewer gives you a session on a target they have given you so very much more. The session will be a compilation of good data, bad data, and contamination, as well as give you a look at the psychology of the viewer, their intellect, lexicon, and how they communicate within their own mind. I can look at the session work produced by these viewers on this target and see those moments when they really did shine a bit brighter.

These comments and others in your post refer to some of the ABC's of remote viewing - in case you aren't aware, many who take part in this forum are experienced in all phases of remote viewing and familiar with the issues you are referring to. As Marv wrote, and as I raised previously, the issues at hand lie elsewhere.

These comments and others in your post refer to some of the ABC's of remote viewing - in case you aren't aware, many who take part in this forum are experienced in all phases of remote viewing and familiar with the issues you are referring to. As Marv wrote, and as I raised previously, the issues at hand lie elsewhere.

My concern is that many of the nice drawings in the session data showed rivers or waterways over flowing, one went into detail about how the pipes could not handle the flow. This would be indicative of a flood more so than a tornado. The floods of April 2009 were far more damaging than the tornadoes.

Possibly anytime you want to forecast an extreme weather phenomenon wouldn't it be easier just to look on this page? When you think about it the only extreme weather ever predicted for April is a tornado..

So while you might see some significant matches in the sessions, nobody hit the target associated with the feedback picture.

Well this isn't quite the case with the tornado sessions, for as MilkyRabbit states, many of them do touch upon a tornado type event. Trouble is that many of the so called 'exceptional' sessions are so polluted with noise that were it not for the benefit of the feedback text one would be hard pressed to draw any kind of 'tornado' prediction.

We need to be totally up front when it comes to presenting and reviewing our RV sessions and not afraid to call a spade a spade when necessary. We have to ensure that our claims are watertight or else the skeptics will have a field day, as I suspect they would with this project.

It is a shame no blind analysts were employed to sift the sessions and actually post a prediction BEFORE the feedback was provided. Had they turned around and declared that the sessions indicated that the a tornado was on the way...well, then the claims made by the project managers would be a little more credible.

Still wouldn't be a prediction, however...tornados happen every day. One will happen somewhere tomorrow. There...there's my prediction. Amazing, hey.

What these sessions predicted (possibly....with hindsight) was the nature of the target eventually selected by the targetter. He chose 'tornado', and thus there is some tornado data in the sessions. Big difference between describing the concept eventually settled upon by the targetter and using 'remote viewing to accurately predict a future event.'

Of course there is also the possibility that the viewer somehow 'sensed' the best fit for the sessions and chose the target accordingly. It's a slim possibility but still a factor worth considering nonetheless.

However flawed, this was still a nice attempt at a project; presents plenty of food for thought.

Clearly there needs to be some blind analysis of the data to make this project a little better (maybe the blind 4 options - pick one type of thing). If the project is going to claim the prediction of real events.

I do think the emphasis on this target has shifted towards a Tornado and did we describe a tornado or the tight Tornado or the right location which isnt really part of the question really. The part of the question for me is did we pick the same target/content that the tasker picked as his news item. Where the tornado was and if it were the right one does not matter.

Did we predict what type of target the tasker would eventually pick out of all the news event in that month?

A problem we also have two future events here in play, both the 'actual event' reported on and the event of the tasker picking a target, which is the event that I feel we are predicting.

Its good to discuss all this though - opinions and debate can help clairify and improve.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.

Didn't Puthoff and Targ take their outbond results to a couple judges and let them make the determination of whether Ingo and Hella et al had correctly hit the mark?

I do believe so.

Here's my visual on this controversy:

A couple dozen hunters are in a thick forrest with their shotguns. Their guide points in a general direction and says "The target is that-away, 'bout a half mile, and it's a building." So the hunters all aim at various heights above the trees and shoot in the direction pointed out by the guide.

Sure enough, when examined, the old barn does in fact have some fresh, new lead pellets embedded in the old wood sides. But so does the old farmhouse, the chicken coop, the pig pen enclosure and the horse stables -- not to mention lead pellets all over about a square mile of surface around the old, abandonned farm (should a metal detector be tediously used to scan for, and dig up all of them).

In another thread, I wondered if the necessary double-blind protocol wasn't being adhered to, especially, in the earlier public tests; i. e.; the LA quake one. Isn't this front-loading both viewer and monitor ? As I recall, Swann worked very hard to eliminate front loading which resulted in contamination from memory images, rampant imagination, and creative, ad-hoc visualizations. McMoneagle also adheres to a strict double-blind protocol. And it seems whenever the protocol is 'relaxed', the signal-to-noise ratio goes all to hell.

Only a few 'naturals' such as Pat Price and Ingo had the ablity to maintain a good ratio (without double-blind protocols, although they could operate within the protocols also), relying, no doubt, on some internal method.

After McMoneagle had his NDE (the Austrian event), his psychic abilities dramatically increased to a point where he sought help (Monroe) to regain control over it. NDEs blurs the boundary between the physical and etheric . And if I were seriously contemplating a career in rv......

But my efforts at RVing have been .. lackluster, having tried about 30 targets (double blind, of course) -- I think it's the coffee :-) using Joe's 'RV secrets' as my guide.

A couple dozen hunters are in a thick forrest with their shotguns. Their guide points in a general direction and says "The target is that-away, 'bout a half mile, and it's a building." So the hunters all aim at various heights above the trees and shoot in the direction pointed out by the guide.

Sure enough, when examined, the old barn does in fact have some fresh, new lead pellets embedded in the old wood sides. But so does the old farmhouse, the chicken coop, the pig pen enclosure and the horse stables -- not to mention lead pellets all over about a square mile of surface around the old, abandonned farm (should a metal detector be tediously used to scan for, and dig up all of them).

You have a really important target form a client.Its a mother - her baby has been stolen.

You know you have a group of say 8 decent remote viewers.Now do you target them double blind knowing that they will most probably not get enough data to 'quickly' allow you to access a gps location for the baby, and that you most probably would have to re-task them to look closer to get more indepth data, because rv can produce shot gun effect type data as the viewer doesnt know what to focus on in a target that could have lots of things (life, land, structures, emotionals, objects).

Or do you let them know that its a 'life' and you want a detailed location.Cutting the noise and retask time allowing you to respond faster?

Now giving this small amount of information still leaves more than enough 'blind' info to check data against feedback for accuracy - which is the primary aim of Ingo's blindness in the protocols.

ie. if the viewer describes a small life form/baby then you know they are on, if they describe a large fat corporate exec you know in this case they are off).

Real world application or RV dictates (sometimes) that a small amount of minimal information is necessary - the real world is not a lab, its dynamic and rv has to adapt to be usable, especially on time critical or search projects.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.

"If the CRViewer is a highly perfected one, it doesnot matter whomever (monitor and /or viewer) knowsbefore hand what the site is. Indeed, the perfectedCRViewer will have no interest in what is known ornot known, since all that is completely irrelevant - exceptingsites utilized for training purposes, in which case the training monitor knows but the trainee never does. "

You have a really important target form a client.Its a mother - her baby has been stolen.

You know you have a group of say 8 decent remote viewers.[...]

===Have you found children this way?

If this frontloading works for you, then keep up the good work. Naturals are able to do this.

But if the target is the mother, you're probably not going to find the child.

I would place all relevant info into the envelope, the child's name, address and photo of the child and use the co-ords or random numbers on the envelope, as usual. There's nothing wrong with putting in as much information about the child as possible. RV either works or it doesn't. But i would want to be as specific as possible. (ex: the child's name is John Smith, named after the father, who also lives there; if all you use is 'John Smith at such an address' there is going to be ambiguity in the result.)

My targetting would include where the child was when taken, where it is now, and where it will be in an hour, 2 hours 4 hours from now ('now' being the time of the rving) etc

Regarding the location of the child, gps might work (aren't numbers difficult to rv?), or an address, or a pin stuck in a city map, or the name and address of the kidnapper.

But the situation might not be a simple as that. I have enough life-experience to know that often, all is not as it seems.

Say, the father has taken the child to get him out of an abusive situation or an alcoholic house; then returning the child to that house would be a terrible thing. On the other hand, maybe it's karma working itself out, and the child was an abusive alcoholic in a previous life and is encountering itself in this one to learn through this experience.

Or it could be none of the above...

What's the old saw about truth? There's his story; there's her story; and then there's the truth.

Maybe the first question ought to be : "What's the best outcome for this soul's development at this time and place?"

"If the CRViewer is a highly perfected one, it does not matter whomever (monitor and /or viewer) knowsbefore hand what the site is. Indeed, the perfected CRViewer will have no interest in what is known or not known, since all that is completely irrelevant - excepting sites utilized for training purposes, in which case the training monitor knows but the trainee never does. "- Ingo Swann

"Perfected"? Does anyone really claim to be a "highly perfected CRViewer" or indeed "perfected viewer" with any method? Well, maybe Gary Langford does.

If Ingo Swann means a professional remote viewer who can regularly view full bold frontloaded, I'd like to see the current evidence. Lots of it.

We know Ingo can do that - see that video circulating recently in which he describes how he picked out a murderer from the back of a set of photos and (apparently immediately) described where the guy would be found and in what condition. But this wasn't CRV and doesn't seem like it was RV at all as we have come to know it, but natural psychic ability.

nia wrote to Daz:

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Have you found children this way?

nia, you're preaching to one of the preachers. He has a lot of experience now with the FindMe group which does have a record of helping to find missing people.

Nia, I respect your comments but form your newness here you seem to be a newbie and if this is the case I would say try a few years of using rv for more than practice with groups of multiple viewers then tell me I'm wrong

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Have you found children this way?

Just done my 49th missing persons case for the US police which includes children, murderers, normal people, cold cases and murderers on the run.

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If this frontloading works for you, then keep up the good work. Naturals are able to do this.

Rubbish. Sorry but the 44+ naturals I work with all work severely front loaded with 10X more info than me just knowing Im looking for a life - they have complete profile including gender, name, last location, DOB, last location seen, photograph, and any other info. I'm the least frontloaded by the nature of knowing im doing a missing per project - no other info.

Ive seen naturals wnat victims clothing to hold and smell, to sleep in the bed of the misisng perosn and all kinds of strange/over the top front loaded info so I don't agree here.

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But if the target is the mother, you're probably not going to find the child.

who mentioned mother - if the child were missing the target would be the location of the child.Ive worked woith the police for 2 years now -- and they don't care if you as a psychic can see graphic descriptions of the crime - they only wnat one thing, a gps coordinate of the location - period.

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I would place all relevant info into the envelope, the child's name, address and photo of the child and use the co-ords or random numbers on the envelope, as usual. There's nothing wrong with putting in as much information about the child as possible. RV either works or it doesn't. But i would want to be as specific as possible. (ex: the child's name is John Smith, named after the father, who also lives there; if all you use is 'John Smith at such an address' there is going to be ambiguity in the result.)

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Regarding the location of the child, gps might work (aren't numbers difficult to rv?), or an address, or a pin stuck in a city map, or the name and address of the kidnapper.

The police do not want anything other than a gps - they don't want you to solve the crime - just locate - then they can do the police work.

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I would place all relevant info into the envelope, the child's name, address and photo of the child and use the co-ords or random numbers on the envelope, as usual. There's nothing wrong with putting in as much information about the child as possible. RV either works or it doesn't. But i would want to be as specific as possible. (ex: the child's name is John Smith, named after the father, who also lives there; if all you use is 'John Smith at such an address' there is going to be ambiguity in the result.)

this is kind of what we do? But i do know upfront that the target is the location of a life.

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Maybe the first question ought to be : "What's the best outcome for this soul's development at this time and place?" And then take it from there.

Sorry - don't agree.I have a client - the mother or in my real life cases the police. I have to give them what they want - nothing else is relevant.On my 47th case I correctly identified that the missing person was in the river behind his home, that he was dead and my final gps was approx 200ft from the body's final discovery location.Sometimes minimal information helps the viewer focus their attention - i would never say this should be done for science or trials.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me and through me.And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.

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