I felt pretty let down by the movie. As Lordnine points out there just isn't anything special about Bane. I am sure you are saying "he beat batman!" but he beat a batman who was just coming out of retirement, how (as we saw at the doctor) had not cartilge in the knees, shoulders and a host of other problems. And the fight just didn't show anything which made me think "oh he is powerful" - well in the second fight he does punch cement and break it but that was awful late in the movie to convince me.

I also thought the whole separate the city for 84 days plot was just ridiculous. I fault our government for a lot of things but we are really, really good at killing and war. There would have been more special forces inside Gotham than rats. They would have know which truck had the nuke and then bombed the shit out of it, because as far as I have read (i.e. Tom Clancy) a nuke will not detonate unless it is done just right. Heck if it was easy to make it go off every country would have nukes. So the could bomb the truck and there would be some radiation issue but no nuclear explosion. Goodness knows no worse than what would happen with it blowing up over a lake near the ciy.

The fact that the entire police force of Gotham couldn't figure out how to get out of tunnels for months but could keep their clothes clean and shave was very weak.

I swear I need to have my chiropractor see this movie so he can just buy a rope to cure people's problems!

Anyway I could rant on but I know that most people liked the movie so I don't want to be a dick about it. Suffice to say I thought it was very, very weak overall. And I loved the first two so I felt pretty disappointed.

imho, like many sequels, it suffers from "trying too hard." In a way, it reminds me of Die Hard sequels that keep trying expand the franchise behind the original "in a building" motif to a city (Die Hard 3), and practically the entire country (Die Hard 4) and apparently next, I dunno, the world? I'm not convinced that making things bigger, larger, more complicated, throwing more characters on screen, makes sequels better.

For me, what's most compelling is Batman face-to-face with someone who has polar opposite values. Getting to see those Batman-Joker scenes in TDK again on a big screen was very compelling Thursday. I knew Batman wasn't going to kill Joker in that police station interrogation room scene, but when I watched it, I still felt like "Wow, he just might kill him." And I didn't know how to feel about that because Batman's unwillingness to break that rule (kill anyone) is something I find very appealing ... even if most comic characters not named The Punisher have that same rule.

I didn't want TDKR to be a TDK clone, I just think it's lacking a bit in scenes like that just grab you by the throat. Still, I plan to take my mom to see it again, probably in a week or two at an IMAX theater.

I have this dream that if Heath Ledger had lived, perhaps they would've set a Dark Knight sequel right in Arkham Asylum (like the successful game a few years ago). So instead of making a third film bigger, to the point you have hundreds of extras you know nothing about charging each other on Gotham's streets like a scene out of Braveheart, you might just have had a few characters you love battling it out in the cramped confines of Arkham Asylum. I think that would've been awesome -- perhaps the inevitable Reboot will consider something like that.

And the fight just didn't show anything which made me think "oh he is powerful" - well in the second fight he does punch cement and break it but that was awful late in the movie to convince me.

I remember Bane doing several (little) things throughout the movie which hinted at just how strong he really was.

Spoiler for Hiden:

In the first scene he almost effortlessly breaks out of his handcuffs. They might have been zip-ties, but either way it was impressive. Later he crushed a guys neck with his hand, caught batman's punch, crushed his helmet, etc. etc.

It was enough that very early on in the movie I had the thought that this was the most "comic booky" of the trilogy, and Bane was way stronger than anyone else in the films. Batman has done some crazy things, but he also has a suit that allowed him to do some of those things, like bending a gun barrel in the first film.

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And the fight just didn't show anything which made me think "oh he is powerful" - well in the second fight he does punch cement and break it but that was awful late in the movie to convince me.

I remember Bane doing several (little) things throughout the movie which hinted at just how strong he really was.

Spoiler for Hiden:

In the first scene he almost effortlessly breaks out of his handcuffs. They might have been zip-ties, but either way it was impressive. Later he crushed a guys neck with his hand, caught batman's punch, crushed his helmet, etc. etc.

It was enough that very early on in the movie I had the thought that this was the most "comic booky" of the trilogy, and Bane was way stronger than anyone else in the films. Batman has done some crazy things, but he also has a suit that allowed him to do some of those things, like bending a gun barrel in the first film.

This. Also, re: the second fight wanting Batman to use more strategy

Spoiler for Hiden:

He did. He went for the past, which he was told while imprisoned would incapacitate Bane due to the pain in which he'd be.

anyway i saw it at AMC,it didn't say it was IMAX anywhere and the seat was least expensive i have paid to see a movie for the past 3 or so years

They do charge more for IMAX. I don't recall the precise amount for a single showing; The Dark Knight Trilogy event Thursday was $40 at the IMAX screen, $25 at the non-IMAX.

If you really want to see IMAX in all its glory (and can survive 2 hrs 44 mins without food/drink), you should try to catch it at a "true" IMAX screen at a museum. Examples in my region are I think the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History in DC, and the Udvar-Hazy Air and Space Annex near Dulles Airport. These are amazing, 6-story tall screens.

The caveat is kind of restricted show times (since they still have to be able to show documentaries during the day), so like 4:30 and 8:10 are the showtimes at those places for TDKR (think they had midnight shows only last Thursday-Friday). I don't think they allow food/drink though. It's unnatural. I would love to see it in one of those places, but generally I like to attend weekend late morning shows these days (i.e., 10-11 a.m. type stuff).

Many (not all) AMC theater complexes have had one screen "retrofitted" as IMAX. It's good (though I find IMAX 3-D not as clear/bright as Real3D), and I hope to take my mom to see TDKR on one of those in a week or two. I have blabbed here about liking AMC's "ETX" theaters, which have massive sound systems and "floor to ceiling" high screens. If your AMC doesn't have an IMAX screen, you might see if it has an ETX one.

And the fight just didn't show anything which made me think "oh he is powerful" - well in the second fight he does punch cement and break it but that was awful late in the movie to convince me.

I remember Bane doing several (little) things throughout the movie which hinted at just how strong he really was.

Spoiler for Hiden:

In the first scene he almost effortlessly breaks out of his handcuffs. They might have been zip-ties, but either way it was impressive. Later he crushed a guys neck with his hand, caught batman's punch, crushed his helmet, etc. etc.

It was enough that very early on in the movie I had the thought that this was the most "comic booky" of the trilogy, and Bane was way stronger than anyone else in the films. Batman has done some crazy things, but he also has a suit that allowed him to do some of those things, like bending a gun barrel in the first film.

Bane impressions

Spoiler for Hiden:

I thought Tom Hardy's Bane stole the movie. My favorite part was when the double crossing Wayne Enteprises board member tries to intimidate and tell Bane he's in control. Bane just puts his massive hand lightly on the man's shoulder and asks, " Do you feel in control?

What many are also missing is that while Bane's strength makes him a formidable adversary and a match for Batman's training and abilities, his intellect also made him a truly challenging foe. He wasn't only scary strong, but he was scary smart, and I think that, when combined with his overwhelming strength and absolute ruthlessness, made him that much more fearsome.

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And the fight just didn't show anything which made me think "oh he is powerful" - well in the second fight he does punch cement and break it but that was awful late in the movie to convince me.

I remember Bane doing several (little) things throughout the movie which hinted at just how strong he really was.

Spoiler for Hiden:

In the first scene he almost effortlessly breaks out of his handcuffs. They might have been zip-ties, but either way it was impressive. Later he crushed a guys neck with his hand, caught batman's punch, crushed his helmet, etc. etc.

It was enough that very early on in the movie I had the thought that this was the most "comic booky" of the trilogy, and Bane was way stronger than anyone else in the films. Batman has done some crazy things, but he also has a suit that allowed him to do some of those things, like bending a gun barrel in the first film.

Bane impressions

Spoiler for Hiden:

I thought Tom Hardy's Bane stole the movie. My favorite part was when the double crossing Wayne Enteprises board member tries to intimidate and tell Bane he's in control. Bane just puts his massive hand lightly on the man's shoulder and asks, " Do you feel in control?

anyway i saw it at AMC,it didn't say it was IMAX anywhere and the seat was least expensive i have paid to see a movie for the past 3 or so years

They do charge more for IMAX. I don't recall the precise amount for a single showing; The Dark Knight Trilogy event Thursday was $40 at the IMAX screen, $25 at the non-IMAX.

3D still would have added a bunch more shows though, can't speak for the rest of the nation but around here 3D adds 4-5 bucks per show. it'd have been interesting to see what it might of done had they put in 3D; at the very least it would have annoyed Razgon and that's not a bad thing, is it?

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What many are also missing is that while Bane's strength makes him a formidable adversary and a match for Batman's training and abilities, his intellect also made him a truly challenging foe. He wasn't only scary strong, but he was scary smart, and I think that, when combined with his overwhelming strength and absolute ruthlessness, made him that much more fearsome.

Yes. He was far from a one-dimensional villain.

I loved the lack of music and flair in the first Batman/Bane confrontation. It made it feel like you were part of the asskicking. It was real and brutal. There was never any doubt that Batman was in over his head and he knew it, which is what made it so riveting.

What many are also missing is that while Bane's strength makes him a formidable adversary and a match for Batman's training and abilities, his intellect also made him a truly challenging foe. He wasn't only scary strong, but he was scary smart, and I think that, when combined with his overwhelming strength and absolute ruthlessness, made him that much more fearsome.

That is certainly the comic lore but it was not very well laid out in the film. The spots where I think we are supposed to see genius in Bane never really cut it for me. Perhaps I need to have it more clearly laid out.

What many are also missing is that while Bane's strength makes him a formidable adversary and a match for Batman's training and abilities, his intellect also made him a truly challenging foe. He wasn't only scary strong, but he was scary smart, and I think that, when combined with his overwhelming strength and absolute ruthlessness, made him that much more fearsome.

That is certainly the comic lore but it was not very well laid out in the film. The spots where I think we are supposed to see genius in Bane never really cut it for me. Perhaps I need to have it more clearly laid out.

Probably you were trying too hard to understand what Bane was saying, to understand his genius. I know that was the case with me. OH I understood Bane MOST of the movie but anyone who says there weren't at least one or two moments where you had to cup an ear, point it at the screen and yet still all you heard was something like "Esht tahm fuh Kosham to havsht hish wekonin." WHAT? I know there was at least ONE point where that's what I heard.

Heck, I gotta take my mom to see it just so I can figure out the Bane lines I missed.

Another voice thing that struck me in the process of The Dark Knight Trilogy event last Thursday was that Bale's voice as Batman was so much closer to being clear in Batman Begins. I mean, you could tell it was Christian Bale. Not Christian Bale emulating Clint Eastwood at age 73 (as in TDK). In other words, in BB, you didn't feel the need to yell at the screen, "HEY BATMAN! TAKE A THROAT LOZENGE!"

The vocalization of Christian Bale's Batman (which was partly altered during post-production) was the subject of particular criticism by some commentators, with David Edelstein from NPR describing Bale delivering his performance with "a voice that's deeper and hammier than ever". Alonso Duralde at MSNBC, however, referred to Bale's voice in The Dark Knight as an "eerie rasp", as opposed to the voice used in the Batman Begins, which according to Duralde "sounded absurdly deep, like a 10-year-old putting on an Ďadultí voice to make prank phone calls".

The vocalization of Christian Bale's Batman (which was partly altered during post-production) was the subject of particular criticism by some commentators, with David Edelstein from NPR describing Bale delivering his performance with "a voice that's deeper and hammier than ever". Alonso Duralde at MSNBC, however, referred to Bale's voice in The Dark Knight as an "eerie rasp", as opposed to the voice used in the Batman Begins, which according to Duralde "sounded absurdly deep, like a 10-year-old putting on an Ďadultí voice to make prank phone calls".

And Alonso is some sort of expert I should trust? I think Alonso has bad hearing.

Thanks for the info though. I love all the movies, so my nitpicking is only out of love. I just feel like Bats sounds like he's got severe asthma in TDK, or really bad phlegm buildup in his chest. I've experienced that, and people sometimes said I sounded like Batman, so perhaps it's appropriate....

What many are also missing is that while Bane's strength makes him a formidable adversary and a match for Batman's training and abilities, his intellect also made him a truly challenging foe. He wasn't only scary strong, but he was scary smart, and I think that, when combined with his overwhelming strength and absolute ruthlessness, made him that much more fearsome.

That is certainly the comic lore but it was not very well laid out in the film. The spots where I think we are supposed to see genius in Bane never really cut it for me. Perhaps I need to have it more clearly laid out.

Probably you were trying too hard to understand what Bane was saying, to understand his genius. I know that was the case with me. OH I understood Bane MOST of the movie but anyone who says there weren't at least one or two moments where you had to cup an ear, point it at the screen and yet still all you heard was something like "Esht tahm fuh Kosham to havsht hish wekonin." WHAT? I know there was at least ONE point where that's what I heard.

Heck, I gotta take my mom to see it just so I can figure out the Bane lines I missed.

Another voice thing that struck me in the process of The Dark Knight Trilogy event last Thursday was that Bale's voice as Batman was so much closer to being clear in Batman Begins. I mean, you could tell it was Christian Bale. Not Christian Bale emulating Clint Eastwood at age 73 (as in TDK). In other words, in BB, you didn't feel the need to yell at the screen, "HEY BATMAN! TAKE A THROAT LOZENGE!"

IF you've already seen the The Dark Knight Rises, and you've decided it deserves the Prometheus Award for Most Plot Points and Scenes That Don't Make Any Damn Sense At AllTM, you may find this EW feature amusing...

I like the movie fine. I just don't understand how people get paid hundreds of thousands, or millions for their screenplay work, and then nobody bothers to sit around the table and just say "does THIS make sense?" "Is THIS realistic?" "WHY would he/she/it do this?" "What's the point?" I think you can do all that and sort things out in a way where it's still entertaining, but moviegoers don't sit there scratching their heads and grunting "Huh?" and "WTF?"

I guess you could say summer movies are just like that, but imho, they don't have to be. I'm not sure if it's getting worse that way, or we're all just more aware of it now.

BTW, on one of those, near the ending:

Spoiler for Hiden:

The reason he survives the blast is because Batman is hiding in a lead lined refrigerator in his aircraft! HAHA!

Finally got around to seeing this last night and thoroughly enjoyed it. Keep in mind, this is coming from someone who isn't really a Batman fan at all. While I thout the first film was decent and the second was so-so outside of Ledgers incredible performance, this is the first one that felt like it really came together as a whole. I thought Bane was an appropriately menacing (if a bit generic) villain, and the extended story outside of the batsuit really kept me interested (sorry, I can never get past the stupid "bat voice") and developed Wayne as a more believable and fallible character. Caine put in a fantastic performance as well...Mrs Gratch was in full-on tears at one of the scenes towards the end. Thought the set pieces were fantastic, the twist was amazing (totally didn't see that coming), and the movie flowed remarkably well from start to finish. Been a long time since I enjoyed a movie as much as this one.

However, the biggest surprise for me was Hathaway. I came in fully expecting to dislike her (couldn't imagine how a queen of chick flicks would work here), but she damn near stole the show. She did a fantastic job playing what has traditionally been an overly silly character. Kudos to Nolan for making her not only work, but totally shine in that role.

Side note: Did anyone else think Bane sounded like Deckard Cain? Kept expecting a "Stay a while and listen".

Finally saw this yesterday. Overall, I really enjoyed it. Bane could have been a little more like comic book Bane but he was still a good villian. Hathaway was really good. I expected very little from her and was suprised by how good she was in the role. There were some silly plot holes but it didn't kill my enjoyment. For some reason, it was easier for me to swallow that

Spoiler for Hiden:

Batman survived a nuclear explosion than a rope and a punch to the spine can cure a broken back.

I give the movie a thumbs up and I'm sure it will get a spot in my collection on blu ray.

Batman survived a nuclear explosion than a rope and a punch to the spine can cure a broken back.

Well I think it was more that:

Spoiler for Hiden:

he had a dislocated vertebra

.

Spoiler for Hiden:

True but a punch to the back is still kind of a silly cure for a bulging disc. If it was that easy, spinal surgeons would be out of business. I guess if I can suspend belief enough to believe a guy can run around fighting crime in a bat suit I can let this go too.

Batman survived a nuclear explosion than a rope and a punch to the spine can cure a broken back.

Well I think it was more that:

Spoiler for Hiden:

he had a dislocated vertebra

.

Spoiler for Hiden:

True but a punch to the back is still kind of a silly cure for a bulging disc. If it was that easy, spinal surgeons would be out of business. I guess if I can suspend belief enough to believe a guy can run around fighting crime in a bat suit I can let this go too.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Having recently had disc replacement neurosurgery, I too found this bit in the film slightly implausible. I'm fairly certain if my surgeon could have merely punched me in the neck while I dangled from a rope he would have opted for that route as it would have been far more efficient than surgery. Still, having an idea as to what Wayne was coping with, I found his recovery to be emotional and inspiring, however fictional, given the pain and struggle I knew his character to be going through.

There is an inherent suspension of disbelief with superhero films, no matter how grounded in "reality" they attempt to be, and I was perfectly content with the level required to gain complete enjoyment from this Batman installment. It certainly wasn't enough to ruin the film for me or to warrant criticism, especially since I found Wayne's struggle to be necessary to overcome all that stood in his way.

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Beauty is only skin deep. Which is why I take very good care of my skin.

Watched it again. I would definitely say the second viewing was a far better experience. Combined with not going in expecting TDK#2, but a different experience, I came away thinking it is indeed nearly rivalling TDK overall. Where as I'd probably have said 3.5-4/5 on first viewing, I'd now say 4.5-5/5.

A few spoiler thoughts:

Spoiler for Hiden:

To me, this movie really was about hope and it's perseverance. Bane trying to break Gotham via giving them hope then shattering it. The hope of the people restored by Batman. Robin's transformation and wanting to give the kids hope until the end. It felt much more poignant on second viewing.

The epilogue after the bomb was still spot on PERFECT in my mind. Even knowing everything that happens, I still got choked up listening to certain pieces of dialogue.

Speaking of dialogue, Bane was MUCH, MUCH clearer at the theatre I went to this time. Night and day. I think I got every conversation without trying. It made him a much better villain, when you can actually understand him. Still not Heath Ledger level, but very imposing and impressive villain all the same.

The main weakness I still felt was any part having to do with the police. Where in TDK they played a large roll, this time they seem pretty silly. The giant chase at the first sighting of Batman. Then, sending nearly the ENTIRE police force underground? Dumb. That stretches believably past my breaking point, and given it's a superhero movie, that point is pretty far along the line. The brawl/war with the police was similarly goofy I thought. It makes for an impressive scene, but overly silly for my taste.

Side note: Did anyone else think Bane sounded like Deckard Cain? Kept expecting a "Stay a while and listen".

That is exactly who he sounded like.

Saw it yesterday and was trying to place where I had heard a voice like that before. OMG! Bane sounds like Deckard Cain!

I liked the movie. I came into it not expecting TDK so I found myself enjoying it and the references it made to the previous two movies. And as for Bane:

Spoiler for Hiden:

After seeing him get shot by Catwoman I thought, "So he can't dodge bullets. Wonder why more people haven't tried shooting him sooner?

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Saw it yesterday. It really does feel epic in the truest sense of the word. This is Lawrence of Arabia level grand filmmaking. While I don't believe it's as good as TDK, it's a very good end to the trilogy that manages to follow a logical story arc for the character of Batman and Bruce Wayne at the same time.

My favorite bits:

The reveal of Talia was great. I'm so glad I avoided reviews and spoilers for the film as it really surprised the heck out of me.

Alfred's speeches to Bruce were fantastic. Michael Caine can act circles around every single member of that film with the possible exception of Gary Oldman, and he proved it repeatedly. The fact that the rest of the cast is comprised almost entirely of actor's actors makes it even more astoundingly clear how great of a thespian he is. I just wish he hadn't disappeared for large portions of the movie.

Hardy was great (as always). He can express more with his eyes and mannerisms than you'd think possible.

Burn Gorman creeps me out.

My least favorite bits (mostly nitpicking for fun):

Talia's death scene made me laugh out loud. I fully expected her legs to go rigid and her tongue to shoot out of her mouth at the same time. I wasn't aware that watching Wile E. Coyote death scenes was part of her preparation.

The power for Wayne Manor is cut only days after he loses his fortune? Even section 8 renters get at least 30 days notice.

I can't decide whether or not Bane's voice worked for me. Sometimes I felt like he was narrating a Christmas special, the way the phrased things and the tone he used.

Burn Gorman creeps me out.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2012, 03:06:43 PM by hepcat »

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Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

Batman Begins said that a person is defined, not by who they are, but by what they do.

The Dark Knight said that everyone is complicated, flawed, even corruptible, but that people often whitewash their heroes' imperfections for the sake of inspiration.

The Dark Knight Rises says that if you're ever faced with a problem that can't be solved by punching, you need to try punching harder.

I really hated this movie.

Spoiler for Hiden:

Who is Catwoman's blonde friend? Why do the thugs in the bar allow her to come in, deliver Wayne's thumbprint to the scene, receive any number of coded alarm messages, and then walk out as though she hasn't just seen the faces of the men about the murder her boss? Where does she go during the last third of the movie, particularly when Catwoman blows up the tunnel blockade and tries to convince the audience she's really honestly thinking about skipping town?

What happens to that bionic knee support that enables Bruce Wayne to kick through mortared brick without breaking his foot? It seems important for allowing him to walk on a ravaged joint for about forty seconds and is then never mentioned again, including during that ponderous initial fight with Bane where a few kicks from a steel-toed deathboot might have come in handy, or in the mysterious prison where, one assumes, it would have been removed.

In fact, what happened to all of Batman's gadgets? For a guy whose whole schtick is about making cunning use of the environment and his high-tech misdirection to inspire terror in his adversaries, Batman sure spends a lot of time in this movie walking straight up to people and delivering right hooks.

How does Bruce Wayne know where to find Catwoman after he's been in prison halfway around the world? Strolling up to her in some random, shadowed underpass as she interrupts an apple theft. Why does he place so much trust in a woman who last lured him into a death trap? Maybe he knows she didn't really didn't mean it because of how conflicted she looks as his back is broken?

Why does anyone believe Bane when he reads Commissioner Gordon's confession to the press? The movie audience knows it's real, but to the news audience huddled in darkened homes around the city, he's a murderous psychopath reading a crinkled sheaf of papers that might or might not have anything written on them. Hey, quick show of hands: if James Holmes gets up in court next week and reads a "confession" from Captain Chesley Sullenberger admitting that he somehow cause the crash in the first place, how many people here would call for an immediate investigation of these shocking revelations?

Who tells Bane that Wayne Enterprise's secret armory division exists, much less exactly where to find it? When John Dagget tries to seize control of the company, Lucius Fox makes a big point about how the R&D Division is "completely off the books," suggesting that even newly appointed president Miranda Tate wouldn't know about Batman's secret stash of unused toys.

What is Alfred doing during the five months that Gotham City is under siege? He leaves after a tiff with Bruce over how to handle theoretical criminal threats. Is he still in Gotham during the crisis, using his experience as a former soldier to coordinate resistance to the occupation? Is he somewhere in DC using his intimate knowledge of the situation to help the government respond to the situation? Is he making any attempts whatsoever to determine the fate of the prodigal son he claims to love so dearly? As the only guy around with as much informational and technological access as Batman himself, plus a streak of pro-law enforcement preachiness, you'd think he'd be doing *something* worthwhile with his time.

Why is the timer on the bomb so needlessly erratic? Talia's handheld detonator fails with eleven minutes left on the clock. She then says goodbye, Bain pushed Batman around, Catwoman shoots Bane, Batman shrugs off his stab wound and chats with Catwoman, Talia finds and jumps aboard the bomb truck for some reason, Batman and Catwoman follow after...and discover there are ten minutes still on the clock?!?

I'd ask why the League of Shadows doesn't skip about 9/10ths of their painfully convoluted plot and simply use their infinite resources to smuggle a backpack nuke into the heart of Gotham City, but that one's obvious: it would have denied the writers their chance to opine on the dangers of clean energy. See, the radical left-wing terrorist group needs to initiate their class warfare by occupying Wall Street so they can weaponize the very dangerous clean energy project, release all the violent criminals jailed by the Patriot Dent Act, redistribute the wealth, and know nobody can stop them because every law-abiding citizen in the city has apparently been disarmed by reckless gun control initiatives.

I don't go out looking for political messaging in everything I see. On the occasions that I discover it anyway, I don't mind finding right-wing philosophy woven into Battlestar Galactica, Mass Effect, or Metroid Prime because those projects leveraged those ideals with cleverness, nuance, and class. The Dark Knight Rises demonstrates none of that: it's naked Conservative hackery that dares only to imagine the last batch of crazy-laced e-mails forwarded from Uncle Redstate simply didn't go far enough. It's propagandistic hackery on the scale of Michael Crichton or John Milius, and I'm just amazed they stopped short of calling their gang the Anarchist Citizens League of Undergrounders.