heh heh... interesting comment, seeing as how all christian denominations originally were rooted in the catholic.

Let's face it, you can argue until you're blue in the face, but the fact that modern christianity has at a minimum, a trinity of father, son and ghost, that's polytheism. Add in a dash of Mary, that's your goddess aspect (which, by the way, if you read papal decrees, is the whole reason for the addition of Mary. Because the indiginous peoples that they tried to force conversion on wouldn't accept a total lack of the female in faith). Now, add some sprinklings of saints, be it modern or john, paul, george and ringo, minus the final two, and you have a pantheon. The, friends, is a polytheistic belief system.

Argue it as you will, the facts are the facts and remain true, no matter what one says or how they try to twist them.

And as a side note, to stir things a little. The romans didn't crucify on a cross with nails, they used and "X", bound your wrists and ankles, broke your legs and poked a hole or three in you for a slow and painful death. Again, historical fact.

They also had some tremendous records that they kept, very detailed, especially of crimes, punishments and governmental workings. They never recorded a "Jesus of Nazareth" or a "Jesus...." as being a criminal, more less one who was punished through crucifixion.

Oh, and RainForest is anything but simple. Valid points were made and should be respected.

Just more to ponder and to open minds, that is if the minds aren't clouded by delusions.

Andy wrote:I will agree with you on that, the catholic church does use instrumens such as beads, and pagans use instruments too. Its good to see that the differce between christian and catholic is know here.

Andy

Okay. I've seen a couple of strange claims from you. I really would like to have a definition of "Christian" from you. I think we're using the word differently. We're refering to the myriad of faiths claiming to be based on someone called Jesus Christ. You seem to have a more limited version (only relgion X, perhaps?)

"There's not much that's contrary to nature if you just know how to coax her along a little."- Mad Amos Malone (A. D. Foster)

I will agree with you on that, the catholic church does use instrumens such as beads, and pagans use instruments too. Its good to see that the differce between christian and catholic is know here.

I suppose that awful spelling is to be expected from someone that doesn't even know that Catholics ARE Xtians. Is there any chance that you'll take a hint and crawl back under the rock you slithered out from?

The spirit abides immovable; it beholds the infernal monsters swarm down upon it, and does not fear. (Eliphas Levi -- The Sixth Hour)

dragonflydrummer wrote:
I suppose that awful spelling is to be expected from someone that doesn't even know that Catholics ARE Xtians. Is there any chance that you'll take a hint and crawl back under the rock you slithered out from?

OK, let's play nice. There really isn't any chance that Andy is going to convert anyone here as we are all well read, well researched and quite open minded. If it makes him feel better to try and point out the "facts" to us, he is more than welcome - just as we have been equally pointing out historical and proven facts to him - which, BTW Andy, you haven't really been able to come back on with anything other than generally well known dogma.

I myself am rather enjoying watching the conversations, and, again, understand that part of Andy's chosen path requires him to try to "save" others, even if it is dressed up in the clothes of open-mindedness. We would be showing ourselves to be less than what the Goddess and God ask us to be if we tell him to get lost and deprive him of the opportunity to try to do what HIS God tells him to.

however, I want to see the memo from YHWH saying to go out and try and convert those whom aren't interested. I mean, history and papal decrees show us why it happened originally with ole momma rome, but in modern times? Where's the memo, I didn't get one *pout*, now I'm gonna have to go yell at the admin assistant for keeping me out of the loop... oops.. work bleeding over again

Non... Stormy is right... play nice.. you can point out where things said are false, especially if you can prove it, but you don't have to be blatantly mean or rude or spiteful about it... just deliver the cold, hard facts with or without theory based upon it.

Rain ForestMoon wrote:Up to now I had accepted the general view that christianity is one of the "abrahamic" religions. But of late I have come to a different view.

Christianity claims that Jesus was the Son of God, born of a virgin.

Anyone who has studied what the God of Abraham was like would agree that having a child by a virgin would be a most un-characteristic thing to do.
The prophet Mohammed is reported to have said: God (presumably the god of abraham) does not beget children.....

However, Gods having children (especially with virgin mothers [well, they generally were virgins to begin with] seems to have been the fashionable thing with Gods of antiquity (just look at the Greek or Roman pantheon....).

So where does this leave christianity? Are they all pagans after all? Or is the whole of christianity just a bit of a misunderstanding? or a fabrication?

Any thoughts on the matter?

Blessings

Christianity is def not Pagan, I could list the differences but we'd be here all day, a few examples though are that we dont have a Goddess, we dont believe in any other Gods other that God/Jesus, we dont have alters in our homes, we dont say spells to heal etc.

"So where does this leave christianity? Are they all pagans after all? Or is the whole of christianity just a bit of a misunderstanding? or a fabrication?"

Great to see you have respect for christianity, im sure if I said the same about Paganism I would be told I was offending someone!

Andy

Andy, if you are offended by something I said on a pagen forum about christianity, then I suggest you don't read my posts.

As far as the catholics not being christians: If they are not, then neither are any of the prostestant churches (because they are offspring of the catholics), and so the only "valid" christians are the orthodox ones.

Just a question: If christianity is, in your view, not a pagan religion, then why are you posting on a pagan forum?
I would have thought that the very fact that you, a (self confessed) christian, are here on this forum, lends credence to the theory that christianity is a pagan religion.

The reason why Christians took our holidays is because we wouldn't follow their calendar so they moved a few things around and hey presto we have no choice and over the years they seemed to think that their holidays had always been there. Sorry about that out burst oh yeah I was going to say if I remember from what my Jewish relatives used to say is that the word virgin didn't used to mean a woman who hadn't had sex it meant young woman, so if that is right it is possible to have a virgin birth because we have grown up with the word virgin meaning hasn't done it yet then we think that's what it means in the bible, to me I believe she was a young woman who got pregnant and because she was young she was called virgin if that makes sense to anyone. Or there's my dads way of putting it she was raped by a roman and had to say something.
I have an e book called 101 contradictions in the bible anyone want to have read, it shows that not even their holy book can get it right.