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Topic Review (Newest First)

10-29-2008 01:58 PM

weaz4200

the build as of right now

Quote:

Hey Weaz; any progress on your start of a buildup yet? (Just curious, since we hadn't seen any further mention on how you decided to proceed). -Jim.

im gonna do what techinspector suggested and start at the rear of the car...as far as the engine...im most likely gonna go ahead and take the block that i got for $100 and have it machined/cleaned(not sure where yet). get it bored .030 over get a scat assembly to make it a 383 stroker...deck the block to 9.000. this probably isnt the place to talk about rear ends but ive been lookin at the 12 bolt/ford 9"/as well as the dana rear end..but im undecided...because no one has answered my question in a different thread yet...so as of right now...i just stripped everything from the engine bay and from under the car...gonna clean it up a little and paint the bay and maybe the underbody(or just undercoat it)..

10-29-2008 12:31 AM

j.d.brown.042964

Hey Weaz; any progress on your start of a buildup yet? (Just curious, since we hadn't seen any further mention on how you decided to proceed). -Jim.

10-11-2008 11:48 PM

j.d.brown.042964

The problem with "just buying a block" is that in order to determine if it's feasible to bother with a buildup, you must first determine the condition of it. This means having it checked for stresscracks, porosity, coreshift, boretaper, and all the other relevant factors. If you already know the source of the block, and it's history, then it might not be so much a gamble. In the case of buying a block that will need to be hot-tanked and sonic-checked and/or magnafluxed just to determine if useable, you really have no recourse unless the seller agrees to refund your purchase price + the associated costs of having it "checked-out", which is not a realistic likelyhood. I think you would be money-ahead to purchase a good quality shortblock assembly, as "presumably" these basic checks have been done beforehand. The types of problems that could render any given block useless for a hi-perf buildup will not be seen through photographs.
Therefore, I would encourage you to shop around for a shortblock assembly, and perhaps you might be able to find a builder/seller whom might allow you to have some "customization/changes to the basic build" for a nominal upgrade fee(s), (especially if they had just started on a new build and hadn't commited to specific parts yet).
If you are really intent on going with a build from scratch, then you might consider speaking with various speedshops/builders in your area and see if they might procure a block for you, as they would have a better idea of what to look for/what to watch-out for. -Jim

You might contact the Volo Auto Museum and ask them whom they might suggest. tel.#(815)385-3644.
If you are in or near Lake County you might try A.P.S.Inc.on Milwaukee Ave. (Il. Hwy.21) in Libertyville,Il. tel.#(847)362-7624. They (APS) have been around for a long time and are reputable. I had them do some 302/351W heads for me a few years back and was very satisfied with both price and quality. (I knew these guys from when I worked at a dealership in Libertyville for a few years, and most people from around that local area used them, due to their good reputation).
There is also a hi-perf shop in Fox Lake that builds some very potent marine engines, but I cannot recall their name. (The fastest of the fast on the Chain-O-Lakes are usually powered by their engines). I've heard it mentioned that they do engines for automotive hi-perf as well, but I don't know that for certain. They are on route 12 (US Hwy. 12) near the intersection of Grand Ave. The folks at Volo Museum would likely know of them, as it's only a few miles apart.
(I moved to Alabama from Ingleside,Il., so that is why I am aware of the places that I mentioned). Anyways; do your homework and ask any shop that you may consider using, for REFERENCES of satisfied customers, and also check them out on the Better Business Bureau's website to see if anyone has filed complaints against them.
Hope that this might've been of some help to you. -Jim

10-11-2008 11:49 AM

weaz4200

does anyone know of any good (quality as well as price) machine shops in illinois?...i saw 2 that were listed on the site...but im looking for ones closer to chicago....thanks

10-05-2008 12:19 PM

Birdman77

well just putting it out there, this was my combination iono if it's any good. but u could get the edlebrock top end kit. dyno tested 420hp on a 350 sbc. dunno if anyone has had this package but for 1500$ it seems pretty good for me since u get the whole top end package... iono though thats just me..

10-05-2008 09:32 AM

Nothing's Easy

Quote:

Originally Posted by weaz4200

so are you saying that i just take all that,slap it all together,and i'm good? how do i know what gaskets to use, or any specs i will make..like horsepower/compression/torque?

techinspector posted a formula for compression. No one really knows exactly what hp or ft/lbs they're making unless its dyno'd. There are ways of making good guesses.. 1/4 times vs weight. You'll have a ballpark idea if you copy the AFR engine but those dyno engines are tuned perfectly, use electric water pumps or have 1 if any drive belts, fancy ignitions and headers that don't have to fit in anything. and gaskets for a 350 after 1987 for those roller blocks. though i don't think it matter aside from 1piece rear seal, oil pan, and a head/intake specific intake gasket.

10-05-2008 09:09 AM

Nothing's Easy

Quote:

Originally Posted by techinspector1

You certainly don't want to be cuttin' and slingin' pistons out of a NEW short block.
I wouldn't worry about the difference between 9.24 and 9.5 static c.r., although if it bothers you, you could have AFR take a thin cut on the heads to reduce the chambers a little. The rule of thumb is that each 0.006" cut removes 1 cc.
Frankly, it scares me a little to advise you to disassemble a brand new and fresh short block to cut the decks.

I missed this one ^, I thought they had you tearing apart a brand new short block for a half point of compression. Having read this I totally agree with techinspector1. My bad about the $200 I was looking at L31's with heads.. $2200

Seems it was my day for making mistakes.

AFR catalogue says Fel-Pro 1003 (which was already recommended)Head gasket, and a Fel-Pro 1206 intake gasket. You can get complete engine gasket sets or just wait and see what you need after you get your parts.

10-04-2008 11:56 PM

weaz4200

let me just start by saying this..i welcome everyones input and im not trying to offend anybody but this part of the forum is called tech help..with that being said...

Quote:

Take that ZZ4, slap on some AFR heads, your cam of choice, and you'll have a blast in that camaro.

so are you saying that i just take all that,slap it all together,and i'm good? how do i know what gaskets to use, or any specs i will make..like horsepower/compression/torque?

10-04-2008 10:44 PM

j.d.brown.042964

As far as the idea of getting opinions and prices from local engine builders, so as to compare with "pre-packaged" short or longblocks, I agree that it certainly wouldn't be a bad idea to do so.
So far as this thread running long (because Weaz wants to get alot of information and feel confident in his upcoming decision{s}), I don't have any problem with continuing to try and help with any and all questions he may have, at least to the best of my own abilities. Can't blame a man for wanting to make an informed decision, can you? Besides, no one is holding a gun to your head and FORCING you to read this thread are they?
I will admit that perhaps some of his questions might've been able to be answered thru the KB as opposed to additions to this thread, but where is the harm in his wanting to know more? If you don't think proper advice has been offered, then feel free to speak up and explain not only what you think should be done, but also why you think it to be the logical choice(s). Quite frankly, I think it's better he asks all those questions now, as opposed to after the purchase(s) being made. But for now, I'll also stand aside for awhile and let the others impart their knowledge to this, so have at it boys. -Jim

10-04-2008 10:10 PM

techinspector1

Although I'm not posting advice any differently than I would to any other on this board who is a first-time engine builder, this particular build involves a factory short block, something that I wouldn't start with in the first place. Investing $4,000 into a build means checking everything and optimizing it in my opinion. But in the end, that's what it is, my opinion and the way I do things.

At this point, I will respectfully yield to the gentlemen from Canada and Cincinnati and bow out of this thread.

10-04-2008 07:57 PM

weaz4200

Quote:

The ZZ4 short block is a great short block for just about any build. Its the short block Edelbrock uses on all their 350 crate engines, even their 500hp supercharged motor and I'd be surprised if it wasn't the short block used to do the AFR dyno numbers.

and they do this without changing anything about the rotating assembly?

I also think you are missing a major option if you don't at least call and talk to some of the more popular/knowledgeable engine builders out there.

like who?

Quote:

There is a very good chance you can get your engine completely built, tuned and tested for the same cost as if you would piece-mill the thing together.

i dont want someone to do all the work.. i agree that ive been rackin my brain with all of this info..but i look at the plus side...ive learned a lot.. like i said before, i dont wanna dish out cash when i could have made a better choice and go with something different...my hopes is that i can soon have a list of components to get...so i could get a pretty good idea of what im looking at power wise....plus this build is just getting started...im doin everything...an i mean everything..from engine to trans(not myself) to rear end to suspension...reinforcing the frame, addressing all the small things.

10-04-2008 06:17 PM

yknot

I have to go along with the last poster, It's absolutely stupid to think about buying a new short block then taking it apart (voiding warrant) and machinery it. If that was the case, and you felt so confident about your engine building skills, then just go purchase a good block and have at it, then come back later on and tell us how bad it all went. I build engines and have machine work done all the time, it's not cheap. To bore and engine (V-8) with torque plate bolted on, your looking at $400-450.00. Aline bore the mains, theres another $150.00-200.00. Deck the surface, $150-200.00. Clean, check and service rods, $150-300.00. That just the block and rods, balancing and other services add up quickly. For someone like you, that isn't that experience with engines, you are wise to go with a short or long block. I would stay with the L31 or ZZ4, they are good engines for the money and have a major brand warranty. The heads should also not be this hard to choose from or with so much drama, I would call all the major builders and do my selection from there customer//thecnical/knowledge/ service you get. If they are screwed up before the purchase just think how they'll be once you have a problem.
I also think you are missing a major option if you don't at least call and talk to some of the more popular/knowledgeable engine builders out there. There is a very good chance you can get your engine completely built, tuned and tested for the same cost as if you would piece-mill the thing together.

10-04-2008 04:53 PM

Nothing's Easy

This is the most complicated 350 build I have ever seen. Theres no reason for it to be this complicated. ALL new GM 350 short blocks have a .025" deck height unless its the blueprinted ZZ4. Which doesn't matter at all, I don't know why people have you so worried about deck height and compression ratio. The ZZ4 short block is a great short block for just about any build. Its the short block Edelbrock uses on all their 350 crate engines, even their 500hp supercharged motor and I'd be surprised if it wasn't the short block used to do the AFR dyno numbers. I was looking into doing the exact same thing you are a couple months ago. The L31 is a good motor, those P/M rods will work fine, but the block won't accept a mechanical fuel pump which will be a bit of a headache later on and though I hate to bring it up... the ZZ4 ($200 more?) will get you that 9.5:1 compression ratio thats just about perfect for pump gas with those 64cc AFR heads and will accept a mechanical fuel pump . Even if it only works out to 9.0:1 or even a high 8 it doesn't matter at all, DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT!! A half point of compression isn't worth any of the machining costs let alone the circles these guys have you running around in.

Forget about all this machine shop B.S. The short block is built and brand new with a warranty. Take that ZZ4, slap on some AFR heads, your cam of choice, and you'll have a blast in that camaro.

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