There is some reason for qualified celebration, but as the article states most are hatchery fish. We should keep the celebration subdued until the wild runs are restored (and some Snake dams knocked down). I submit as long as nets are in the river (which cannot discriminate between a hatchery or wild fish), this will be a precarious victory for wild salmon (and steelhead).

There should be a five year moratorium on nets in the river and any stakeholders (treaty tribes should take most of theirs from hatchery stock at Columbia fish ladders in my view) with possible supplemental compensation in the interim, and an accomodation for a very few net sets for subsistence and religious purposes.

You know, they are doing a study to build more dams on the Boise and Payette rivers. The reason are all hatchery fish is because the salmon cannot reach their spawning grounds up the Boise and Payette due to the dams already in place.

There are alternatives. They can build off-steam storage rservoirs and remove the on-streams dams. It would not cost very much more.

Water is going to become a big issue in Idaho. There is already a hundred thousand acres of farmland near Twin Falls that may need to be returned to desert due to lack of water.

I am a Civil Engineer, and while I believe we need to store water, we do not need to build on-stream dams to do so. On-stream dams are a cheap band-aid type of fix with high long term costs. There are many areas in Idaho where large reserviors could be constructed, off-stream, that would not affect fish runs…or at least not to the degree that dams do now. Most of Idaho’s famous salmon runs could be restored.

I like your thinking, pointswest. There is a lot that can be done to maintain or restore riverine and riparian ecosystem processes even in the presence of a hydroproject. Actually, that’s a large part of what I participate in at the company I work for.

What sucks even more than Americans planning dams are countries like China and Italy building mega-dam projects in Africa and South America where environmental regulations are nearly non-existent, at least when there is money involved.

Largest bear removal effort in WA state history – More on the 10 black bears that were either destroyed or trapped and relocated to Mt. Rainer NP. Oysterville, where this incident took place, is on the Long Beach Peninsula about 20 miles north of the mouth of the Columbia. The peninsula is less than 2 miles wide for most of its 23 mile length (known for its continuous sandy beach). Over the last forty years or so it has been built up with summer homes (they will all be gone if a Tsunami hits, as it is flat).

It appears now there are as many as 15 bears involved, not the stated 10.

This has also generated discussion in small communities along the coast, which are enacting their own ordinances against feeding wildlife – and that is good news -since the state is apparently not inclined to pass an aggressive law, says the article. Geez.

I have posted it before, but Captain John C. Fremont wrote in his journals that salmon were so numerous at the base of Shoshone Falls on the Snake River (near Twin Falls, Idaho) that fishing Shoshone and Bannock Indians would only need to cast their spear aimlessly into the water to take fish.

Sounds good until you get to this part “working with stockmen to advise them when wolves are near their livestock and to provide recommendations that will minimize depredations.”
But actually, I know just the woman for this job. She had a previous temp job down in the border areas of Arizona to shoot coyotes to reduce bighorn predation. She’s tall, blonde, and beautiful and likes to go bear huntin’. I can just see her knocking on the doors of ranchers to talk wolves. I’m sending her the link!

From a Yellowstone newsgroup…
==================
Visitors with tents and pop-up trailers can again camp in
Yellowstone’s Norris Campground. On Thursday afternoon, the campground was temporarily restricted to hard-sided units only because two young grizzly bears had been seen frequenting the campground.

Initial efforts to haze or relocate the bears were unsuccessful. However, the sub-adult male bear was captured Friday evening. On Thursday, this bear had entered an unoccupied tent, slightly damaged another, and then bit a generator. Because of this behavior, the bear
was not a good candidate for successful relocation back into the wild. Instead, the 185-pound grizzly was transported on Saturday to Zoo Montana in Billings.

With the male bear gone, the young female grizzly left the campground area. She was later spotted causing a bear jam along the road near Roaring Mountain, several miles north of Norris Junction. The temporary ban on tents and pop-up trailers was lifted Sunday.

Visitors are reminded to keep food, garbage, barbecue grills and other attractants stored in hard-sided vehicles or bear-proof food storage boxes when not in use. This helps keep bears from becoming conditioned to human foods, and helps keep park visitors and their property safe. Bear sightings should be reported to the nearest visitor center or ranger station as soon as possible.

I think it is good to keep Yellowstone grizzlies in zoos to make sure the genetics are preserved but zoos may soon fill up. Why couldn’t they move gizzles that have been conditioned to humans to the wilderness areas of central Idaho…where there are no humans?

Could you please link to the information that says, Montana wants to manage down to a population of 150 as you claimed yesterday, I have searched for hours and have not found the information…if your going to make the claim, please cite your source, because I have not heard this at all in the many meetings with FWP that I have attended…

And I will add, I am not against wolves, but I am not happy right now, with the decreased hunting opportunities, and I have been talking to a lot of people, who are of the mind to shoot them and leave them lay…this is not going to be a pretty hunting season…it is at the point that bullets are against politics in the west and it will not be a pretty picture when it is all over…

SB, 150 wasn’t too off the mark from what was discussed. The article in today’s Jackson Hole Daily states that the “MFW and Parks Commission considered three different quotas 153, 186 and 216, reducing the population by 8 – 20%”. After 1,500 public comments, which Carolyn Sime referred to as “very diverse”, they have decided on a “186-wolf quota over 13 wolf management areas”. Other changes and parameters are being decided during meetings today and tomorrow.
And please to all my fellow wolf supporters, we cannot give up the fight for wolves rights here in the West. Wolves are wildlife too and they deserve to hunt this land as much as humans do. The hunters cry for balance and that’s exactly what we need, a balance between allowing the wolf enough latitude to survive and at the same time, have some hunting “privileges” left intact. The world changes everyday and we need to change with it! This is not 1910.

I am well aware of what the plans say are the minimum, but at no time has Montana stated, they are managing for the minimum number! As far as I am concerned, I feel that no matter what happens, there are going to be a hell of a lot of wolves killed because of all this crap…support them all you want, but remember those living with them have guns and the closest law is a long ways away, when it comes down to it..

And, I am sorry, in US law, wolves don’t have any “rights” at all. And no, it is not 1910, it is 2010 and virtually everybody, no matter what side of this issue they are on, has internet access and they can choose to listen to the pro wolf extremists or the anti-wolf extremists, right now, from what I see, the anti-wolf extremists are winning…

At the heart of this matter, the hunter matters not, until such time as Wildlife Services is reorganized, they will keep killing wolves, they are the problem, not the legal hunters! Even if the wolf is re-listed, wolves will continue to be killed in mass!

I think, that I would want to take my chances with one hunter, killing one wolf, than a Wildlife services group killing a whole pack at a time, lets see in Wyoming, they just killed a whole pack, including pups, in SW Montana, they have taken out whole packs, in OR, they are trying to take out the Alpha’s in a pack, The government is the problem, not the legal hunter that can take ONE wolf..

It is amazing, how many peoples focus is so far off base n this issue, I can tell you for a fact, wolves will be killed, do you really want them killed in groups, or take their chance with a hunter? The hunter can only kill one, Wildlife services can kill as many as they feel they need to, and they have a hell of a lot more resources than that hunter…

Another research angle from the closed ecosystem work done at Isle Royale- this one having to do with osteoarthritis – histories in moose bones from the last 50 years. Possible implications of juvenile malnutrition having late in life onsets of disease, with applicability to humans.

Early on in the recovery my wife and I were camping and had a wolf run by fairly close. I reported it and got a nice e-mail from Curt Mack telling me which pack it likely belonged to etc. I seen many since then and have never reported them and never will.

Instead, as documented by scientists and researchers, the wolf’s hunting behavior of testing their prey for weakness can cause elk to avoid open areas, move to higher altitudes, seek out more areas with heavy foliage for cover, or instinctually move toward human dominated landscapes where landowners may offer less hunter access.

The Colorado Wildlife Commission voted on July 8 (yesterday) to authorize CDOW staff to create a formal proposal to reintroduce wolverine into the state. The plan would still need Commission final approval, and then legislative approval. Technically they don’t need legislative approval since there is a wolverine already in the state and they are not yet Federally listed, but they want the legislature’s buy-in. Restoration to Colorado would be a significant increase in the species’ range.

The problem is that ranchers have thousands of stock tanks in place that pump well water to the surface for thier stock. But the stock tanks have also vastly extended the range of deer and elk. So the natural boundry that once existed between Grey Wolves and Mexican Wolves is no longer in place.

I wonder how long the wolf hunting season in Idaho will be as their qolf quota is most likely to be higher than the 220 last wolf hunting season. What surprises me about Montana is the general wolf hunting season is not that long at all.

I have not even though about it yet. During the 4th of July, I was on the edges of the proposed Great Burn Wilderness that straddles the Montana/Idaho border, interesting place. I talked with an outfitter about wolves, bears, lions and ungulates. He is so pissed with the lion population that I was offered a mountain lion hunt for expenses and wages. Wish me luck in the draw but remember that regardless of whether I draw or not thirty hunters will draw. I do not have the money for two taxidermy jobs. I have never been interested in hunting mountain lions but if the price is right, it’s a new adventure.

Sounds about normal, most of the states have lawsuits pending to do this, I posted a link this morning where Utah is trying to do the same thing…I feel change coming, for good or bad, I think there is going to be some kind of change..

I think global warming is likely to make Idaho cooler and greener in the summer do to increased moisture flowing inland from the Pacific. Last year was one of the strangest weather years I have ever seen. It rained nearly every afternoon in July at Henry’s Lake. The mosquitos were terrible. Then it snowed in the Tetons in late August and again in early September. I lived in Ashton for 18 year and never saw it snow in the Teton in August or early September. I think the increased moisture led to evaporative cooling which allowed it to snow.

One of the greenest, wettest moutainsides I have scene is the north side of the Truchas Peaks in the Sangre de Cristo Range in northern New Mexico. Tropical moisture from the south comes up to New Mexico in the summer and it will rain most afternoons above about 8,000 feet.

The same might start happing in Idaho. I think it did happen last summer. In fact, I think the sudden change in climate might explain some of the decline in the elk’s population. Last year was a strange year. Heavy winter (the 08/09 winter) and a very rainy summer….and I still cant get over it snowing in the Tetons in August. It snowed down to about the 9,000 foot level.

SB, unfortunately its slanted towards the human species and how WE can benefit (whether it be our wants, needs or greed) when it comes to other species who to often lately, are just trying to share whats left of the space.

I had an Iranian friend who was in the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980’s who told me stray dogs were a menace in that war too. He said dogs could climb under the rubble of bombed building and find human flesh for food. One they’d eaten human flesh, they would travel in packs and attack and kill people…usually kids as is reported in this story.

Yeah…how misguided the Iraqi’s are. Since these are dogs and dogs are animals, they cannot possibly do evil. Attacking, killing, and eating kids should simply be accepted as the K-9’s normal, natural, and beautiful behavior. The stupid kids had it coming. They should have known that running like a deer or calling like a goose only stimulated the K-9 preditory instincts. If they Iraqi’s weren’t such evil human beings, they would spend hundreds of millions of dollars and train the three million children living in Baghdad to not stimulate the K-9’s attack responses and the stray K-9’s, brothers of wolves, could have all been saved and we would have had an additional 150,000 stray dogs on the planet! …but nooooooooooo! Being evil human beings, they just killed the stray dogs.

It’s a cultural thing with the middle east. Most but not all of Iraqi and Iranian people do not view dogs and cats like people in the U.S. I’ll never forget about 25 years ago I got into a “discussion” with the Iranian boyfriend of my girlfriend’s sister, who was questioning why she needed to take her cat to the vet- he was confused as to why you would do that-This just gives the Chinese more fodder when we complain about their mistreatment of animals- when so called democratic societies cull dogs.

Pointswest, we went over this already. Dogs are not capable of doing evil. If they are infact eating children, they are doing so because they are starving to death most likely and aren’t able to find food. I am not shocked by this. Iraqis have no problems killing each other, so why would they care about all of the dogs they shoot? I feel for the dogs, but a quick death is better than slowly starving to death.

BTW jon…we discussed this before but I felt like you lost the argument. You only repeat your jon-isms such as, “animals are incapable of doing evil,” as if you are some new kind of profit or oracle. You can never formulate any kind of reasoning as to why humans are evil and animals are innocent. You only state that this is the way it is (period).

I think you’re funny on this issue. You make me laugh. I’ll bet most other people think you are pretty funny on this issue too. Even the most hardcore animal rights advocates (quite a few on this blog) probably believe animals are capable of doing evil and think your arrogance is funny.

I have to ask one more question…please do not sidestep it as you have done with so many other questions. Do you believe humans are animals? …that is, did we evolve from a common ancestor with chimpanzees? At what point in time (in millions of year ago) did we evolve to where we were capable of evil while chimpanzees remained innocent? Please provide some reasoning behind your answer…if you are capable of reasoning. I mean, what exactly did our human ancestor do on that day when the first human evil act was committed? What was the first evil act in the world?

You should be able to tell us. You are so knowledgeable on this subject and with 100% certitude. You must speak with the gods, the angles, the spirits or something. Tell us what the first evil act in the world was jon!

Wait, I know…save face by NOT answering any of these prying questions and repeat a jon-ism.

I am pretty sure those dogs weren’t killed to feed the iraqi people. When you start claiming animals are capable of evil, you lose the argument plain and simple. No logic in that what so ever. The only being laughed at was you when you started calling animals evil. saying animals are evil, that’s a good one pw. Sure to get a few laughs.

People on here think animals are capable of doing evil? Which one said that pw? I believe several on here explained to you already that animals are not capable of evil. Does them killing things in order to survive or defend themselves make animals evil pw? Animals are not capable of evil acts. They act out of instinct. When you start applying human terms to animals, there is something wrong with you. Explain to me how are animals capable of doing evil? When an animal kills a person for self-defense reasons, is that an animal being evil? To me, that is an animal defending itself plain and simple. Everyone knows humans are capable of evil deeds, that goes without saying but that doesn’t apply to animals and anyone with half a brain realizes and understands that, but you clearly don’t.

jon…now you are putting words in my mouth and confusing the issue. Please answer the question you sided stepped. What was the first evil act? At what point in our evolution did we cross over from being innocent animals and become evil humans?

Evil and superstition are one and the same…both feed on the unknown. I see no difference in any animal behavior (including humans in this kingdom). Evil is an extension of Aryan master race …species… superiority arrogance. So there….

When I was a kid in high school I used to make a little money feeding horses in winter. A horse trainer who had a ten acre field nearby used to bring up thorobreds from California and winter them with his utility horses, for lack of a better term “cow ponies.” These were a mix of horses with histories unknown to me, a sixteen year old kid just hired to toss some hay out into 12 x4 foot rectangular shaped feeders, knee-high, and made from 6 inch lodgepole pine logs, every morning before school. If the weather was bad I did the same thing in the afternoons. I had strict instructions – hay only in the feeders, and none on the ground and a precise amount per day, no more.

The trainer (who had a very successful career producing many winners) theorized he could toughen up these yearling+ racing prospects by taking them from their privileged, daliy groomed, upbringings in sunny warm CA, and put them in the cold of winter, with below freezing temps and little shelter from the weather, to compete with larger and more experienced horses for a meal. I guess there were on average 20-30 head, feeding at those rectangular feeders, with maybe enough room for just over half that number feeding together. About a third would be the scrappy cow ponies, a couple of Irish jumpers and the rest young pampered, and no doubt very expensive, thorobreds trying to survive in the presence of the others.

There was one particularly “nasty” black gelding who loved to mix it up with those young thorobreds. He was well nourished, but didn’t seem to eat more than any other of the cow ponies. He spent most of the time chasing these sleek colts away from the feeders. Ears back, head down, then up with a couple of quick side to sides, a nip on the but or withers, a couple squeels and then flying hooves. He wasn’t always content to go after the young ens. When he tired of that novelty, he would go after the other cow ponies. He loved to come after me when I would try to chase him away from the feeders. Or even when I (occasionally and against the feeding rules)would drop hay outside the feeders for the young en hanging back waiting their turn at the troughs. He could turn on a dime and just when you thought you were facing off with him, he would wheel, kick out with the heels about head high. Why? because he could to it, and he enjoyed it.

That horse was evil! I named him BZ (short for Beelzebub and his demonic behavior). Maybe a trained observer could say othewise.

By the way, if you came to the corral with bucket of grain he was sweet as they come, nuzzling up, soft whinnies…..until it ran out.

I just saw your response. I’d say your “evil” horse was a proud cut gelding…the same as the one I used in Yellowstone for 15 years. Everyone called him a sociopath, I called him Blondie, short for Blondie the bit.. .

Best horse I ever rode…but because of prior human insensitivities he was left to be very dysfunctional.

But all this “evil” usually is the result of very superiority tainted humans…whether “animal” or that other animal, humans. Just as domestic breeding bulls get very angry, the same applied to the Mandingo’s of USA slavery days. The amount of time “used” before they were fit for nothing in society was the same …about a year and a half. People sure screw up animals and “humans”.

Gelded a little later could be part of the explanation, but this horse had some other behavioral things going on, as well, as they seemed to go well beyond what a stud would do.

Speaking of neutering, do you do cut your buffalo calves or leave them au naturale? And, recalling an earlier conversation about fencing, you mentioned a simple 4 or 5 strand wire. Do you do heavy posts or ties, and hot fence, as well? Anything special with your bulls when cows are in, as in your own animal husbandry intervention, or do you let nature do the selecting for you?

To answer your questios; Any herbivore, domesticated or otherwise, will breed at the appropriate time if formed up in functioning extended family herds. By functioning I mean those family members are not fed with vegetation or grain out of that animals normal cylce of needing nutrients appropriate to those changing seasons.

So no, I do not castrate nor keep bulls out of the matriarchal components, ever…like all those very dysfunctional management cattle producers do. These folks are very stupid for having to do either of these labor intensive “practises”. The meat on steers is not as nutritious and by not allowing males with the family groups the females to not get to know these males well enough to accurately judge the ones they want to reproduce with.

And as for electric fences I do use them but only to keep the neighbors young cows and heifers out. Disorder seeks out order and since these stockers have no order they want to get in with my herd.

And as for electric fences and camps, the most impotant thing they did in Thorofare country was the ourfitters camps that used these bear “deterents” changed from swill holes to cleaner areas…. even to the point of having grasss in and around the tents and camp areas.

And why did these outfitters place them? Because it gave the clients a false sense of bear security.

Bears went under, over and around these electric fences to get to elk carcasses…but all is well in the mind of “enforcing” FS and game wardens.

And to use them in the back country away from the permanent camps….. they worked to keep horses in till griz spooked those horses…or a moose came through at night.

And as for packing electric fences for use around individual tents in griz country it works a lot better to pile brush up around these tents whether little baby rip stop nylon or canvas wall tents (the Indians did this all the time in temporary overnight camp situations in bear country. In fact I have found a number of these overnight lodges where poles were leaned up against tall fir tress and then brush piled three or four feet out) . Of course, unlike the Indians, I always scattered this brush afterwards.

Bears would pull people out of wall tents just as well as those little pup tents in Yellowstone. Saw lots of examples of whole sides ripped open and sleeping bags etc pulled out of these sliced like butter gashs.
One outfitter I patrolled on got so spooked he had all beds in camp pulled to the center of the room. still the sleeping bags were pulled out …but between hunts so nobody in them.

Ranchers should chill about wolves and spend their energy worrying about other more serious problems. Like, how much longer is the public going to let them get away with welfare ranching?

Many ranchers in Oregon graze their cattle on public lands. According to the “Welfare Ranching” book, federal permittees pay only $1.35 per month to graze a cow-calf pair while the average monthly cost of grazing a cow-calf pair on private lands is $11.10. So us taxpayers should have a lot to say about what happens on public ranchland, since we’re the ones subsidizing the ranchers.

Stop asking me ridiculous questions that you know no one knows the answer to. It is not my fault you made a fool of yourself when you said that animals commit evil acts. If you are so certain that animals are capable of evil and commit evil acts, go ask a wildlife biologist what they think about animals being evil.

My question is not ridiculous. I have a very reasonable answer to this question. You do not and yet you are so certain about things good and evil in the human vs animal realm. It seems like someone so comfortable with their beliefs that they would repeat them over and over could come up with some kind of answer to a directly related question.

I do not go ask a wildlife biologist questions about good and evil in humans and animals because I do not believe wildlife biologists are experts in the field of good and evil. They typically have no more training in philosophy, theology, or religion than an accountant or a chemist might have. Why would I go ask a wildlife biologist about animals being capable of evil acts? I just as well migh go ask a chemist.

I think this is a dumb discussion, but if you are adamant that there are evil animals, then I think you must similarly believe that there are saintly wild animals that exhibit altruistic behaviors out of pure love, separate from any influence from natural selection. The reason that the words “good and evil” are not generally applied to animal behavior is that they don’t share human morals. That is the only measure of good and evil that we have, is it not? Is it evil for killer whales to torture their prey for an hour before killing it? To say they are evil is to project your own moral beliefs on them in a very anthropomorphic way. I have known animals that have struck fear into me or that I consider to behave badly, but to me most behavior is the result of evolution and natural selection, paired with an animal’s unique experiences after being born and how those shape its behavior. It’s the same with us.

You are not alone….
You rarely hear something about the Red Wolves here on this blog. Found something from May: Feds Investigate Deaths Of 2 Red Wolves In Hyde Countyhttp://www.witn.com/home/headlines/93083539.html
From some of the lovely comments I see that a true “Southener” loves those “treehuggers” from “elsewhere” as much as some “Idahoans” and “Montanaans” do!

The article reads:
“While the official recovery goal is 220 animals in the wild in three different locations, some scientists think the peninsula has reached wolf capacity.”

So once again, it is not hunting, it is not public attitudes, it is not that the locals not sacraficing enough; the problem comes down to the amount of good habitat. I do not understand why so many pro-wolfers are not more active in trying to preserve habbitat and only decry hunting and ranching that often helps these endangered species.

“But Benston thinks the agency doesn’t fess up to all the problems the wolves can cause…’It’s bred into these animals to just constantly kill and not because they’re hungry,’ said Benston, who also is a retired state forest ranger.”

More unhelpful–and untrue–rhetoric from someone who should know better.

The article also says “Between 1999 and 2006 gunshots accounted for 32% of deaths among breeding wolves and six to eight have been gunned down yearly since 2007”, and goes on to suggest that one of the problems is hunters mistaking red wolves for coyotes.

The article also cites a firearms store owner who noted, “I’ve heard it said many times, when they see them they’re going to put a bullet in them because it’s ruining what they enjoy doing.”

Seems attitudes, hunters, and habitat may be problematic in this instance.

I know people can be real idiots. I am not defending poachers and trigger happy thrill killers who call themselves hunters. I am saying the greater issue is habitat. With more protected lands, the human caused deaths at the periphery will be lower.

You know, in a circle, the area varies with the square of the radius (pi r squared) as where the circumference varies only with the radius (2 pi r). So if you quadruple the radius of a circle, the area is increased by a factor of 16 while the circumference is only four times larger. The larger the area of a protected habitat, the lower the periphery where conflicts occur. I few hundred thousand acres is not enough.

Indeed, the best management of predators is exactly what California has done with cougars—eliminate all hunting of predators, except for those which pose a direct threat to human life and/or livestock. With regards to livestock we should require changes in animal husbandry practices to reduce conflicts such as immediate removal of carrion, use of guard animals, among other practices. Then and only then the only animals that should be killed are those that are habituated livestock killers.

“The reason for these unexpected results has to do with the social ecology of large predators. Killing of large predators like cougars (wolves) can skew populations towards younger animals. Younger animals wander more widely where they are more likely to encounter humans, and they are less experienced hunters. As a consequence they are far more likely to attack livestock, and in the case of cougars, even attack people rarely.”

I would like to see some science on this. For one thing, cougar attacks are so rare, it is difficult to interpret the statistics to mean anything. Also, California has had some erratic weather over the past few decades. They’ve had El Nino years that dumped 20 feet of snow in the San Gabriel Mountains and that destroyed piers along the coast that had been standing there for 100 years. This was followed more recently by warm dry weather and an epidemic of wildfires. Many of the wildfires are started by people and are near cities. This fact alone could account for the variation in the incredibly small pool of statistics for cougar “incidences.”

But I’m certain any statistical change, however slight and meaningless, could somehow be used to rationalize a hatred for hunters.

Also, wolves and cougars are two very different animals. Cougars have never been a real problem for civilization as where wolves have been a great problem and have been so for eons. It is interesting how this author (inserts) the word wolf in his writing to suggest that all the same priciples in his rationale apply to wolves. So he makes is implication but has done so with such craft that it can easily be denied later.

The guy who wrote this article is actually a hunter himself. He just disagrees with the attitudes of some hunters. He is not anti-hunting. He is anti-predator hunting which a lot of people are. Actually, I believe mt. lions were wiped out in some areas before. If they weren’t a problem, they wouldn’t have been killed off in some places pw.

george is also a former Montana hunting guide. This is going to be good. Tell me how a former hunting guide and a person who hunts is anti-hunting? He is just against hunting predators and he gives good reasons for it.

George worked for the same outfitter that I did, but 2 years yearly. The outfitters was a nothing, a thief and the hunts were glorified camping trips out of Cooke City, Montana. None of us has the experience or knowledge to guide and kill a legal ram in the unlimited areas. It paid $60 a day for 10 days. He worked in 1977 and I in 1979, maybe he worked for someone else later or earlier that I do not know. I have worked for 4 or 5 outfits and been a client 4 times.

“The reason for these unexpected results has to do with the social ecology of large predators. Killing of large predators like cougars (wolves) can skew populations towards younger animals. Younger animals wander more widely where they are more likely to encounter humans, and they are less experienced hunters. As a consequence they are far more likely to attack livestock, and in the case of cougars, even attack people rarely.”

I would like to see some science on this.

PW–I would like to see some studies being done on this, considering how much we don’t know about wolf management. Isn’t that a reasonable thing to expect from those managing them?

Elk –
Did this guy operate out of Cooke Pass? We rented a couple of horses & pickup to retrieve an elk on the Wyoming side from a short dirty desperate-seeming guy there who could easily have played a loser-villian in a western, in 1973 or 1974. I shuddered at the thought of somebody booking a hunt there . . .

I am sure that he is dead my now; it was Wisdom Pack Station in Cooke City. Most outfitters carry in the saddlebags needed equipment for the trail: human and horse first aid equipment, spare horse shoes, toilet paper, etc. One day we rode up to check on the horses and stop by a small stream for a rest. He opened up his saddle bags and there was mimi bar. Two liters on one side and mix, glasses and a very small cooler with ice on the other side. There were custom made saddle bags.

Interesting bit of psychology. Not strictly wildlife, but directly relevant to some of the back-and-forth on here, and more particularly with regards to the Anti/Pro-Wolf debates in the broader world outside the readership.

When my wife and I were in graduate school we both had various spells of “impostor syndrome”, whereby one feels intellectually inferior to one’s peers (very similar to Dunning–Kruger bias you linked to). I learned later on that this is something nearly every graduate student experiences.

No Elk Calves Killed By Wolves and Only One Possible Grizzley Kill…so finds a study taking place in Island Park:

TRACKING CALVES
Fish and Game study, in its second year, funded by Rex Rammell’s fine
JOYCE EDLEFSEN
Rexburg Standard Journal

[…]
Year No. 1 of the study showed a very low calf mortality of 10 percent, with one calf dying of starvation, one dying at the hand of a black bear and other by mountain lion predation. The study was conducted on the eastern part of Unit 60 that included the Henry’s Lake area of the Centennials to the Montana border as far south as the northeastern tip of Island Park Reservoir.

[… Year 2]
In early June 42 elk calves were captured and fitted with modified collars, Roberts says. The elk were pretty spread out within the study area.
“We’re monitoring the survival rate now,” Roberts says. Of the original 42, nine elk calves no longer have collars.
–Three calves were killed by black bears. (A grizzly may have bee responsible for one of the three. More study is needed to find out for sure.)
—A coyote killed one.
—One died after becoming tangled in a fence, not related to the collar problem.
—Two died of unknown causes. There was blood on the collars but no carcass to examine.
—Two collars were off, but there was no sign of predation.
Roberts says coyotes are known to “play” with the collars once they are off the animal, hauling them long distances from where the collar may have come off the calf.
And another researcher tells of seeing an elk cow pick her calf up by the radio collar and shake it until the collar came off.
After subtracting the mortalities and mysteries, that leaves 33 calves this week still being monitored and tracked through their radio collars.

No…you have to take a boat and go on a tour. Will probably do it since my boy is a little older now and might enjoy it. I have been up to San Simion beach many times. It is to the north where elephant seals and harbor seals haul out and you can view them anytime and at no cost.

Austria once had an excellent WWF funded Bear Project in the Alps. Unfortunately almost all bears somehow “disappeared” in the meantime. Few have been found again, stuffed in a poachers collection. Hunting and poaching, with hunting easily tipping over to poaching, has a long tradition in the alpine regions and is still well embedded in folklore and culture. The latest victim: Bear “Roznik” shot and skinned http://www.merkur-online.de/nachrichten/welt/fotostrecke-roznik-erschossen-gehaeutet-842434.html
The article is in german language only and the text is meagre anyway but the attached pictures say a lot…….

Austria once had an excellent WWF funded Bear Project in the Alps. Unfortunately almost all disappeared in the meantime. Few have been found again, stuffed in a poachers collection. Hunting and poaching, with hunting easily tipping over to poaching, has a long tradition in the alpine regions and is still well embedded in folklore and culture. The latest victim: Bear “Roznik” shot and skinned http://www.merkur-online.de/nachrichten/welt/fotostrecke-roznik-erschossen-gehaeutet-842434.html
The article is in german language only and the text is meagre anyway but the attached pictures say it all…….

This is *sort of* good news for my favorite stomping grounds. An agreement to allow a natural pipeline to go through important wildlife habitat, but millions of dollars will be paid for conservation activities and RETIRING GRAZING PERMITS. I think it is a *decent* trade off, but of course it all depends on how the pipeline corridor is managed, etc.

Montanans For Effective Wildife Management (MFEWM) made 98 claims of campaign violations including:
Failure to report “in-kind” contributions, Failure for Footloose financial supports to file proper forms for making donations, Failure to report use of corporate equipment – such as fax machines – which constitutes a contribution – . Failure to report the use of a RV in the signature gathering process, and so on………………

Tom Barnes of Dillon, chairman of MFEWM (and I believe I read somewhere, he’s also an official in the MT. Fur Trappers Assoc) claims Measure I-160 has the potential to deliver a devastating ecological and economic blow to the state of Montana (read somewhere that trapping fees bring in a “whopping” $100,000 a year)

MFEWM is a broad-based coalition of trappers, ranchers, farmers, wool growers, small business owners, sportsmen and conservation groups and concerned citizens across the state.

A blow to a grassroots group just trying to make public lands a safer place for pets and wildlife.

It’s obvious that anything that they feel threatens their strangle-hold on the public trust and public lands is a threat to them. Indeed, when you choose to make a living off of the publicly owned resources, you are subject to the will of “we the people” and established policies that are designed to protect publicly owned properties and resources from exploitation by those who choose to make their living from exploiting publicly owned resources.

But then, in recent years, it seems that no matter what horrid events and conditions that might emerge from exploiting public resources (the commons like air, water, public land) seem to be legally acceptable if you are making money from it. If you make money from some activity, it seems that it is sanctioned by the law because acquiring money is sacred after all… regardless of how it’s done or the consequences for everyone else. When “we the people” choose to take action to stop endangerment of our resources, these exploiters scream bloody murder rather than be forced to change their practices, like the rest of us have to. They want it their way only, to hell with everyone and everything else so long as they get what they want.

The act of attempting to discredit anyone objecting to their exploitation and endangerment of our lives is right out of the KKKarl Rove playbook.

What a bunch of nonsense. A trapper will tell you anything in order to keep trapping around, but it is infact a public safety hazard and it puts people’s pets at risk as well as other wildlife besides the intended target and maybe even children and adults. If I lived in MT and my dog got trapped and got killed because of it, I would make it my life’s work to go around Montana and throw away every single trap there is on public land. Trapping on public lands needs to go. how disgusting that iin 2010 we still have people trapping and killing animals for their fur. The fur belongs on the animal. These trappers care for nothing, but their trapping. They don’t even care about the fact that people’s 4 legged friends might get trapped or other wildlife because if they did, they would understand that traps don’t belong on public lands.

Trapping is indiscriminate, often killing endangered, threatened and sensitive species (e.g., Canadian Lynx, American Bald Eagle);
Traps set on public lands, without warning signs, directly endanger the adults, children, and pets that use the land;
Public lands trapping contributes very little to Montana’s economy. In 2008, trapping generated only $94,000 in revenue, while hunting and fishing generated just over 65 million;
Federal studies show that wildlife watching generated over 350 million dollars for Montana in 2006. It stands to reason that limiting trapping to private lands would increase the abundance of wildlife on public lands, and therefore increase wildlife watching revenues;
Trapping undermines sound wildlife management. Currently, no reliable data exist that documents the species and numbers of animals killed in traps;
Trapping kills public wildlife for fur and not for meat. Hunters and anglers are not allowed to sell the meat of wildlife and fish. Profit driven trapping for exotic fashion markets is in conflict with conservation and managing wildlife as a public trust;
Use of steel-jaw leg-hold traps is a cruel and inhumane practice. Animals caught in these traps suffer from fear, anxiety and physical pain for prolonged periods of time, often resorting to chewing off their own limbs to escape.

Why are you suddenly so concerned about women, kids, and pets jon? I thought these uneducated idiots were just standing in the way of grizzly and wolf recovery. Suddenly, they’ve become innocent victims of the evil trapper.

The elimination of wolves from Oregon during the 20th century is one of our state’s greatest environmental tragedies. Their return could become one of our greatest success stories. That won’t happen if the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife and the governor’s office continue to cave to the same fearful, vocal, special interests that killed them off in the first place.

Oregon’s wolves are a native species with a history of violent persecution. Even as science reveals the surprising, irreplaceable and positive role they play on the landscape, a small but vocal minority of anti-wolf interests continue to spread misinformation and fear.

According to Canadian scientists there may be a separate genetic identity of gray whales which are subject to harvest by Makah tribe in far corner of NW Washington. Numbering less than 200, this puts a bit of a wrinkle in future Makah harvests, and may raise the issue of ESA listing.

Well, if this is really what’s going on, it has the potential to solve the human overpopulation problem… unfortunately, it would end up killing off everything else, as we humans have been slowly doing ~ only in a far shorter time. Here we go. Maybe my adopted mantra for situations that annoy or trouble me is the “way to go”. The mantra: It doesn’t matter. (No matter what it is). So why worry? If it truly is what’s happening, it’s far too late to worry anymore, about much of anything.

Who is this author, Terrence Aym? It is always interesting how uncredentialed writers, sometimes for their own ego purposes, put people on edge.

If someone else, for example those individuals cited within the writing, had peer reviewed and widespread credibility it might add weight to the story. Rivkin’s theory is labeled as “controversial.” Gadfly is my first response. Can anyone offer anything more substantial on this guy’s credibility or his doomsday writing?

Wustner is flat wrong that hydatid disease “caused the confirmed deaths of over 300 Alaskans since 1950.” I worked for the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and hunted in Alaska for over 20 years. According to the Alaska Division of Public Health’s Epidemiology Section, there were 300 confirmed human cases of hydatid during that time period – not deaths. Hydatid disease is treatable, and very rarely results in death.

Misinformation about this disease being spread by those looking for excuses to hate wolves and by one Canadian scientist who apparently has an unfortunate history with a family member who contracted the disease in Europe.

WM,I live in an area which has coyotes.I don’t iive in New York state and nor would I be considered living out west,either.Since the rescent attacks by coyotes, we once again had to be reminded of their presence and to use preventive measures;don’t leave dog food out,bring in pets at night,bring in bird feeders at night for they attract animals that coyotes prey apon,and,not to mention,refrain from walking your dogs in the early evening.Time and time again we have to reminded of the wild life that we have in my state.Coyotes seem to manage to live anywhere.

If you’re afraid of coyotes and you want them to move out of your neighborhood, get over it; they’re not going anywhere, according to John Maguranis, Belmont dug officer and wild animal expert.

Killing a coyote isn’t the way to control the coyote population, said Maguranis. If someone kills an alpha male, then all the females in the den will go into heat, which leads to more coyotes being born.

Coyotes are killed year round in some places and it still doesn’t control their #s. Some just use that as an excuse to kill coyotes. Some actually enjoy killing coyotes. I myself see no point nor any sport in shooting a coyote.

In recent weeks, wildlife biologists have come forward to point out that numerous studies have proven that bounties are an ineffective way of controlling coyote populations because female coyotes respond by simply having larger litters.

Jon, I have heard that coyotes respond to population decreases by having bigger litters. That is what I mean by having a season. If they were not killed year-round, would it eventually lower the population. It seems like when there is a mass killing like in those contests it will have just a short-term result.

++If someone kills an alpha male, then all the females in the den will go into heat, which leads to more coyotes being born.++

How many females are typically in a den? Someone can correct me but coyotes do not usually form packs as do wolves. They will do so sometimes when their main prey animal (such as deer) requires a pack to take it down, but most coyotes prey upon smaller game such as rabbits, mice, and birds and so in most or nearly all cases coyotes hunt alone. My experience in hearing coyotes howl seems to corroborate this. I have only rarely listened to a pack of coyotes howl but most often hear a single coyote howl at one time. I have heard them howl hundreds of times. Also, females only go into heat once a year. It not like you kill the alpha male and 25 coyotes replace him in nine weeks. So if most coyotes are not in a pack, then the killing of an alpha male should make little difference.

It sounds to me like someone with an agenda wrote the words quoted above.

++In recent weeks, wildlife biologists have come forward to point out that numerous studies have proven that bounties are an ineffective way of controlling coyote populations because female coyotes respond by simply having larger litters.++

Excuse me!

Could you try and explain the mechanisms of this. How does it work, the females count the number of coyotes they see in a day or hear at night and if it is too few it triggers hormones that releases more eggs from her ovaries? Can you provide some details and proof thereof?

I could believe when a female has plenty of food and has a high level of fat, there may be some biological manipulation of her reproductive systems, maybe hormones, that will increase her litter size. Her pups probably have an increased chance of survival into maturity when there is plenty of food too. Somehow I doubt it is simply that females “respond” to lower coyote populations. How does a 4-year old coyote know she is in a high or low population anyway jon? What is a high populaiton and what is a low population? Can you define this so any coyote knows what it is. You seem to be their brother.

Thanks for that link Tim. I would love to see wolves all over the country, not just in a few states, but I am sure some wolves will be migrating into other states before long on their own. If humans can help speed that process up, I support that 100%.

All I can say, as a wildlife biologist, that really does understand things, I am very disappointed with both sides in wildlife management now a days..nobody seems to learn a damn thing and wildlife suffers because of it..this will do nothing but polarize both sides to a point of no return..stupidity rules in wildlife management now a days, and I am almost ashamed…

Trapped Bobcat Escapes From Chicken Coop
Just one of those little stories that make you smile somehow. What a committed bobcat!http://www.kptv.com/news/24325313/detail.html
Reminds one however on the sad end of that grizz that had do die for stealing a few hens!

“Nature without wolves is not nature,” he says. “I have a deep-seated, fierce love of nature, and I’m very afraid that slowly, piece by piece, we’re losing it all. The most important thing to me in life, outside of family, is preserving wild nature. And wolves are in the center of that.”-Doug Smith

Killing coyotes is cruel and ineffective. New groups of animals will simply move in to fill the void left by those who were killed. Targeting the animals’ shelter and food sources is key to effective coyote control. Never feed wildlife, and make sure that trash is tightly lidded

The hunts are not based on biology. They are political hunts, the result of pressure from ranchers, who rarely lose livestock to wolves, and from hunters, who believe that only they should be allowed to kill the elk on which the wolves feed. Problem wolves that kill livestock should be destroyed. But until scientists can determine how many wolves are needed to sustain a thriving population across the Northern Rockies, the hunts must end.

The public comments analysis report for the scoping phase of the YNP winter use plan has been published. You can read the analysis of the comments and what the four propose alternative to be examined in the EIS are here:

Personally I’m for plowing the west side of the park in winter but not specifically for commercial concessionaires, it will still cost too much for the public to access their park in an affordable fashion. I’m not for the roads being plowed if it still means that only those who can fork over $100+ a day per person can go in. I’d rather see the Alt #1 take place ~ which is to do nothing… that would eliminate all oversnow vehicles. I think that if the regular, hard working citizens can’t afford it, nobody should be able to go. Winter use for the rich only has to go away.

My first winter of rangering out of West was 1974. I think we averaged around 4 private snowmobiles a day coming through that gate. Most snowmobile use was for govt functions in those days. And a lot of it was by govt. Theikels not smaller machines.

Bob, I know folks at the West gate before and since the early 1970’s and they recall much the same. I know that the park was actually pumping clean air into gate booths and oxygen masks to the gate staff not so long ago…. And yes, I know that technology has improved the exhaust emissions for snow mobiles but only people who can afford $100+ a pop per day is too much. The concessionaires are starving the rest of the businesses in towns that are outside the gate(s), they are the only ones who have income during the winter. So the park is essentially only for rich people in the winter and there’s just something inherently wrong with that.

It’s my park as much as any other citizens’ and I would like to see the park in the winter without paying that much to have someone tell me how long I can enjoy whatever it is that I can see and all the other limitations that would make it not worth the cost even if I could afford it.

With appropriate travel rules, it could be a good fit for the public, the park and the gate communities. Besides, it costs far more to run grooming equipment EVERY night rather than plows ~ even if they ran every night ~ and plowing need only be done when conditions require it. Does the highway get plowed every single night to improve the pavement?
Anyway, I’d like to use my annual pass all year long rather than four months in the summer. Lamar is a six hour drive from the west gate so going there in winter is out of my time/$$ availability. When the park is open, all roads, I can get there in two and a half hours, provided it doesn’t take two hours to get from the west gate to Madison Jct. due to idiot jams…

I took the family to Despicable Me in 3D this afternoon (great in 3D) and saw the previews for a slough of other 3D movies about to open. One is called Alpha and Omega and it is opening Sept 17. It is a 3D animation of a story about two young Canadian wolves, an Alpha female and an Omega male. They are thown together when they are captured in Canada and sent to Idaho to breed and form a new pack. The Alpha female, of course, is rejecting of the Omega male.

I really like these 3D animated movies. But it will be interesting to see how pop-culture deals with wolves. I think it is a very positive sign that they are the subject of a childrens movie. Hopefully, it is a good movie and will be popular. There are many 3D movies in the que for release in the coming months.

The litigants in the case against Wildlife Services in Oregon over the lethal controls on the Imnaha pack report that the WS has suspended those lethal orders until they have completed either an EA or EIS, which would mean to about the end of the year.

Big news in Utah. Rancher killed wolf after depradation of 2 calf (according to the rancher). Interesting is the the rancher did not know how to be proactive and protect his cows. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=11722172&hl=7

Some are trying to pin that hiker’s death on the bear researchers. What if signs were up and the hiker ignored them and still got killed? Would they still place blame on the bear researchers or would they accept that people are responsible for their own actions.

Meanwhile, I continue to marvel at our ability to ignore facts about wolves while jumping on one bandwagon or another. A case in point: It was coyotes and not wolves that killed 23 lambs on a Bitterroot Valley ranch last month.

Because many hunters remain convinced that wolves hurt hunting success, Montana State University studied elk to discover why populations decline in some areas and increase in others. The findings were perhaps surprising: Elk were more bothered by human activities — including hunting and residential activity — than by wolves.

In any case, vehicles bump off more wild game than predators do. But I haven’t heard of any plans to eradicate cars or drivers.

The differentiation between “Buffalo” and “Bison” is a grammatical error, it is a species error, and I did bring that to their attention when I was working with them way back when..seems to me it was around 1998…

Just in case you have not figured it out, it is very easy to follow the preceding admins and make no changes, the current Bison persecution stems back a long ways before Brian was elected to office, in fact, I would suggest other than a political sound bite, Brian had very little understanding of what goes on with Bison..I first became aware of it in ’96….

As long as my lawsuit is pending against the state of Montana, no can do, after loosing my position with FWP and a good portion of my retirement from the Military, it would not be prudent to post on a public chat system under my name..

Bison, Buffalo, I don’t think it matters much. A common name is just that, a common name. I don’t think that you can enforce common names, just scientific names. I happen to use the names interchangeably but I prefer buffalo, partly because it gets under some people’s skin.

Not an intentional jab at you BTW. I just find it amusing that people get a little hoity toity about it. If I talk about “buffalo” you know what I’m talking about. The minutia in this case doesn’t matter.

said lets have a little fun, what is most dangerous current animal in the State of Montana. If both Saves Bears and Timz were in the state at the same time then they are most dangerous animals.

Hey, how about a sword fight or dual in front of the Polebridge, Mercantile after breakfast. I need an excuse to get up there before the end of summer. But first, I want to eat my hot fresh pastry and drink a good cup of Earl Grey before any negative action on their part.

Moose are killing the most people around Yellowstone…at least they were a few years ago. They are very short tempered in the winter when they are hungry and snowmobiling and cross country skiing was getting people too close to moose.

My daughter in Idaho gives moose a wide corridor while she is hunting.
In 2004, on a trip to Maine, we traveled north of the Great Lakes. The road signs were interesting; I particularly liked the aggressive looking moose road crossing signs. Those for snowmobiles were devoid of drivers.

It’s truly a shame that we humans are the reason why those animals are no more barb. Another animal that will be added to that list unless we humans start getting our act together is tigers. Tigers are close to being gone. India can’t stop the poachers and they do a terrible job protecting the tigers over there. Tigers are losing their habitat and food source to the people over there. 1 billion people in India and probably 2000 or less tigers left in the wild. Truly disgusting.

I think Ebola is more deadly than smallpox. Many people are resitant to the smallpox virus and will hardly be affected by it. I believe no one has resistance to Ebola and 90% of those who contract Ebola will die. Ebola is less contageous however, but I am not an expert. Ebola is contained. It only lives in a few labs somewhere…as far as I know.

Peter, there were a couple of interesting articles about Jim Cole in Montana Magazine May/June 2010, and he just published another book called Blindsided, Surviving a Grizzly Attack And Still Loving The Great Bear

Nancy, yes, I bought a copy of his book recently but have yet to find some spare time to read it. I know, he was obviously a rather controversal guy. The more I am interested to read, what he has to say.

The Wildlife Society will call for increased gender, racial, and cultural diversity in wildlife managers at the plenary session of the upcoming annual meeting in Snowbird, UT:

“Biodiversity is indeed critically important regarding our wildlife populations and their habitats. But, given the demographic trends of the population of the United States, diversity of the workforce of natural resources biologists and managers also is critically important.

Wildlife professionals need to continue to be aggressive in recruiting qualified individuals that ensure that the gender, racial, and cultural diversity of wildlife biologists and … It’s important to recognize that this issue extends to not just race, but culture, as wildlife resources and their habitats are viewed and valued differently by the cultures of our global society.”

“I’m actually quite amazed of the amount of people that don’t really know anything about them even Montana residents. So, I think it’s kind of important, especially now as they come out into the prairie and to the big towns. Grizzly bears have a large hump over their shoulders and that’s developed muscle that they use when they dig for their food. The black bears don’t really dig for their food, so they don’t have that hump,” Ranger Intern, Hannah Sylling says.

Breach the 4 lower snake dams, remove dams on the malheur, upper snake, and upper columbia and provide passage past grand coulee and see what could really happen. What is called a good year and what it should be are 2 completely different things.

Park biologist Craig Murdoch was conducting a fisheries survey on the Bartlett River trail late on the morning of July 27th. While hiking along the shoreline of the river, he heard movement in the grass across the river from him, a distance of about 150 feet. As he turned to see what was making the noise, he saw a full grown brown bear charging towards him. Murdoch yelled at the bear and grabbed for his bear spray, which was in his backpack. The bear continued its charge and got within about 15 feet when Murdoch sprayed him. The bear veered away, continued running into the woods, and did not return for a second pass. The Bartlett River trail is temporarily closed until a full assessment of the area can be conducted. This is the first documented behavior of this type by brown bears along this river, although they’re in the area fishing for sockeye salmon. The park provides training for all staff who work in the backcountry in the use and deployment of bear spray, including simulation of incidents of this type.

Hard times have hit Teton County, WY, the wealthiest county in the USA. Ranches that once sold for as much as $60 million are now selling for a fraction of previous values.

The historic Forbes Ranch was listed today for a measly $12 million. …the price of a condo on Wilshire Blvd here in Los Angeles.

Worse, the Teton Valley Ranch is going on the auction block. Parcel I is being auctioned with only an $11 million reserve. It was once listed for $29.5 million. Parcel II, originally listed at $17.9 million is being auctioned WITHOUT RESERVE! You might be able to pick it up for as little as a few million.

“In its August newsletter, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game summarized recent elk studies and found only a minority of elk populations are declining and wolves are culprits in few.”

About 30 cows were collared in each of 11 of the 29 management zones, including 5 of the 6 with declining populations.

“Biologists found that wolves killed significant numbers of collared elk in only one area, the Lolo zone along U.S. Highway 12 in north Idaho. Over the three years, the report claims wolves killed 20 percent of the Lolo sample, or about six elk. Three-quarters of the collared elk survived, less than Fish and Game’s survival goal of 88 percent.”

This is somewhat at odds with the constantly honed and improved theme that “wolves are cutting through all our herds like a hot knife through butter, leaving only scorched earth.” At least it hasn’t happened yet.

Before wolves were reintroduced, elk populations were larger and elk stayed in the open, which is what hunters got used to, Creel said. Now, he said, elk may be acting like they did before wolves were eliminated.

Given time, Creel said, he thinks both populations would stabilize. He noted population sizes are only considered “good” or “bad” based upon arbitrary ideas of what the size should be.

“No predator has ever eliminated its food,” Creel said. “Change is always the most dramatic at the beginning, then population numbers settle.”

There is an ongoing elk calf study in Island Park. Some preliminary results were published by the Rexburg Standard Journal and I posted them here. I am relying on my sometmes feeble memory but of somethning like 30 elk calf deaths, only one was by a grizzly and none by wolves.

I watched two coyotes play against a cow elk defending an already dead (by the time we got there) calf in the Hayden Valley. It was like watching a well practiced football team. One worked in close enough so the cow charged but she had not completed the first lunge when the other from behind was running full out for the calf and got as many bites as possible before she turned around and charged back and followed it off aways, while the other one raced in from behind for a bite or two.

Here is what a posted a few weeks ago…I was wrong. It was black bear that killed the most. It sounds like wildlife people had no idea what was killing calves until this study or ones like it. It has probably only been resently that the tracking technology was affordable to track so many calves.

=================================

No Elk Calves Killed By Wolves and Only One Possible Grizzley Kill…so finds a study taking place in Island Park:

TRACKING CALVES
Fish and Game study, in its second year, funded by Rex Rammell’s fine
JOYCE EDLEFSEN
Rexburg Standard Journal

[…]
Year No. 1 of the study showed a very low calf mortality of 10 percent, with one calf dying of starvation, one dying at the hand of a black bear and other by mountain lion predation. The study was conducted on the eastern part of Unit 60 that included the Henry’s Lake area of the Centennials to the Montana border as far south as the northeastern tip of Island Park Reservoir.

[… Year 2]
In early June 42 elk calves were captured and fitted with modified collars, Roberts says. The elk were pretty spread out within the study area.
“We’re monitoring the survival rate now,” Roberts says. Of the original 42, nine elk calves no longer have collars.
–Three calves were killed by black bears. (A grizzly may have bee responsible for one of the three. More study is needed to find out for sure.)
—A coyote killed one.
—One died after becoming tangled in a fence, not related to the collar problem.
—Two died of unknown causes. There was blood on the collars but no carcass to examine.
—Two collars were off, but there was no sign of predation.
Roberts says coyotes are known to “play” with the collars once they are off the animal, hauling them long distances from where the collar may have come off the calf.
And another researcher tells of seeing an elk cow pick her calf up by the radio collar and shake it until the collar came off.
After subtracting the mortalities and mysteries, that leaves 33 calves this week still being monitored and tracked through their radio collars.

That may mean that there is a grizzly feed issue this year and she, with her three cubs, was only the first to exhibit desparate and bold starvation behavior. It will be interesting to see if more grizzlies don’t cause problems as the lean summer wears on.