if you want to know about thumbers and tomahowks. you should watch me play.; i use them more then any other person i know or play with. i can put it about 350 feet with control. no i don't use the epic. i use the 150 esp plastic flick. light so it don't hurt your arm, flick is one of the fastest and thinnest disc you can have.

FIREBIRD ALL THE WAY BABY!!!!!!!!!!!! I RECOMMEND A FIREBIRD, HAS TO BE CHAMPION. STAR ONES SUCK. Lose their stablity very fast (the Star ones, and off right off the bat too, not soo with other models, but is true with Firebird). Luckily my Star Firebird is a awesome Darkside of the Moon Tye Dye so I just put it on my wall!!! My only on the wall disc (not into that thing).