[QUOTE=ChocoTaco369;1172961]I believe PUFA's exist in nature because everything on Earth is supposed to age. We are born, we live and we die. I believe PUFA's are crucial to accelerate the aging process because we are supposed to age. While eating fresh fish and raw nuts is much healthier than eating fish oil and canola oil, I believe that a diet rich in salmon and walnuts will age you faster than a diet rich in pastured beef, potatoes, watermelon and coconut. PUFA's are in everything because we are all supposed to get old and die.

That being said, I'd never advocate the ingestion of fully hydrogenated oils. Even though they may technically be "safer" because they're PUFA-free, I don't agree with eating laboratory generated foods. Ray Peat, even with all his anti-PUFA talk, recommends coconut oil over MCT oil because he specifically states to always choose real food over laboratory food. This is why I avoid fully hydrogenated oils. Partially hydrogenated is a no-brainer.[/QUOTE]

Interesting outlook. I too believe that we are not meant to live indefinitely, mostly due to DNA transcriptional errors that tend to accumulate over time. The thing that guards against this, however, is telomere shortenening, not PUFA poisoning, as far as I know.

-PK

04-26-2013, 07:32 PM

ChocoTaco369

I don't think my outlook is strange at all. Death is a natural part of life, and our bodies age as the years go by. Aging is an outside force. Our bodies don't age on their own - it's the foods we eat, the stress we put on ourselves physically and mentally, radiation from the sun, attacks from bacteria...our bodies don't age on their own, the world around us does it. PUFA's are just another part of that. To me, they're generally unhealthy because they're the precursor to a lot of modern diseases. But in the grand scheme of things, getting old is a part of life and they help make that happen.

I love this quote by Peat:

[quote]Even living in the tropics, there are many possibilities for diets rich in signal-disrupting substances, including iron, and in high latitudes there are opportunities for reducing our exposure to them. As a source of protein, milk is uniquely low in its iron content. Potatoes, because of the high quality of their protein, are probably relatively free of toxic signal-substances. Many tropical fruits, besides having relatively saturated fats, are also low in iron, and often contain important quantities of amino acids and proteins. [B]In this context, Jeanne Calment's life-long, daily consumption of chocolate comes to mind: As she approaches her 121st birthday, she is still eating chocolate, though she has stopped smoking and drinking wine. The saturated fats in chocolate have been found to block the toxicity of oils rich in linoleic acid, and its odd proteins seem to have an anabolic action.[/B][/quote]

[url=http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/alzheimers2.shtml]The problem of Alzheimer's disease as a clue to immortality Part 2[/url]

It makes you think.

The Kitavans smoke like chimneys, yet they don't have any incidence of cancer. They eat tons of starch with little fat and protein. They are on very low fat diets, and since starch stores as SFA and MUFA in tissues, they probably have next to no PUFA in their tissues. This is probably why they don't get cancer even though they smoke like crazy. PUFA creates the inflammatory response, so if you have no PUFA...do you get inflamed? Maybe you don't!

[quote]Kitavans reportedly smoked heavily (77% for men and 78% for women). Interestingly, the Kitava Study mentions no malignancy in Kitavans such as lung cancer, but only points out the relationship between Western diet and risks of diseases including cardiovascular disease and certain forms of cancer. [1] Perhaps, the Kitavan diet also helped significantly reduce or prevent the risk of cancer in addition to cardiovascular disease, because of their low levels of serum glucose and inflammation.[/quote]

[url=http://www.carbohydratescankill.com/2435/pearl-of-kitava-study-2-of-2]Pearl of The Kitava Study (2 of 2) | Carbohydrates Can Kill[/url]

Think about it.

The secondary statement in that quotation is laughable because the Kitavans eat tons of sugar in the form of starch. It ain't the carbs, it's the PUFA I bet you :)

04-26-2013, 08:03 PM

Neckhammer

No I don't think its strange to speculate on our general mortality and the nature of aging.... or even philosophizing on the greater scheme of the universe in this regard. Thats all quite interesting. I just dont agree on the singular focus on PUFAs as the dominant cause of aging . Don't the Kitavins fish alot? What about the effect of sea coast populations tending to live longer? Just as all carbs are not created equal nor are all PUFAs. And we also have the insulin effect... Kitavins are basically IF'ers. So insulin isn't entirely off the hook when discussing longevity even in a relatively high carb population. Lots of factors to consider for certain.

04-26-2013, 08:48 PM

MarissaLinnea

If it's in breastmilk, there's no way it can be bad for you. That's my .02

But remember back in the day, doctors pushed mothers to feed their children formula because they said it was supposedly "healthier" for the child than breastmilk. *shudder*

04-26-2013, 09:33 PM

ChocoTaco369

[QUOTE=Neckhammer;1173312]No I don't think its strange to speculate on our general mortality and the nature of aging.... or even philosophizing on the greater scheme of the universe in this regard. Thats all quite interesting. I just dont agree on the singular focus on PUFAs as the dominant cause of aging . Don't the Kitavins fish alot? What about the effect of sea coast populations tending to live longer? Just as all carbs are not created equal nor are all PUFAs. And we also have the insulin effect... Kitavins are basically IF'ers. So insulin isn't entirely off the hook when discussing longevity even in a relatively high carb population. Lots of factors to consider for certain.[/QUOTE]
Kitava is almost on the equator. Warm water fish are generally very low in fat and therefore very low in PUFA. I just ate wild caught cod tonight for dinner. It was a 1 pound package. The nutrition facts said in 4 oz there is 1g of fat and 20g of protein with 90 calories per serving. I mean seriously, a pound of fish with 4g of total fat. If you're eating 2 lbs of fish filet a day you're under 10g total fat.

That's a singular example, but the point I'm trying to make is warm water fish is generally low in PUFA because warm water fish is generally nearly fat free. It's mainly the coldwater fish that are fatty and need lots of PUFA in their tissues to...literally keep them from freezing in the cold water. If fish had high levels of saturated fat, or even MUFA, they'd solidify in arctic waters. PUFA keeps them liquid because EPA/DHA is liquid at freezing temps.

I don't think PUFA is the only cause of aging. The aging process is multifaceted for sure as most things in life are. However, I believe PUFA to be a driving force. Is it dominant? I don't know if it's #1, but it's up there.

04-26-2013, 09:35 PM

ChocoTaco369

[QUOTE=MarissaLinnea;1173347]If it's in breastmilk, there's no way it can be bad for you. That's my .02

But remember back in the day, doctors pushed mothers to feed their children formula because they said it was supposedly "healthier" for the child than breastmilk. *shudder*[/QUOTE]
There's hardly any PUFA in human breastmilk. Human breastmilk is very similar to goat milk, which has around 4-5% total calories from PUFA or so. Eating meat, vegetables and eggs, you're probably going to hit more like 8-10% calories from PUFA. When I used to eat high fat/low carb, I'd be frequently in the double digits eating just meat and vegetables, even without nuts. Chicken, pork, fish...it's all loaded with it. Now that I consume more calories from carbs than fats my PUFA consumption has dropped a lot.

04-26-2013, 10:00 PM

sakura_girl

I personally feel pretty crappy when I eat too much saturated fat. I have really tried to improve my health over the years, but after I cut out my 60% grass fed burgers, too many ounces of unsweetened chocolate, and daily dose of coconut meat/milk, I have felt immensely better. I have a clearer head, feel less bogged-down, and don't have congestion issues. Don't know why.

04-26-2013, 10:22 PM

cori93437

There are actually many warm water coastal species, easy to catch the surf and shallow intercoastal areas, of fish in the mackerel and jack family that are quite fatty (at least as fatty as that cold water cod) and often eaten. To assume that all warm water fishes are very low fat is just not accurate. Some are... many are not.