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I ordered all black, but were back ordered for 2 wks. So I changed to green and got the last 2 they had. After discounts (special offer code on catalog) I paid $101.00 for the 2 tires.

Old topic, but it certainly seems to have come back around and there are several new tires since 2008, plus most would be set to much wider rims now as well, so I thought it was worth revisiting... and I've always been a fan of Randall Graves, so "I'm taking it back!"

Vittoria Open Pave - a decent reputation for toughness and ride, but unchanged for years and the 24c size is the biggest that would fit in regular road bikes

Michelin - extra-volume of their 25c is a plus, as they still fit in most road bikes, but they've not always the most resilient tires in the past (see question below)

Continental - GP4000s in 25c has been a nice addition to their line-up, as everyone knows what you're getting with a Conti by this point

So I suppose the questions are:

1) Does anyone have experience with the new Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires? They are mentioned as being a replacement for the Krylion Carbon, who's resilience I've been AMAZED by, so I'm keen to know if they're suitably strong and still have the typical volume of Pro3Race and Optimum 25c tires.

2) What else is out there that people have had the best experience with? Bonus points if we can keep it limited to what would fit into a standard road bike.

Vittoria Open Pave......they probably haven't changed them because there is little to do to make them better. I use them on my "training", i.e. bad road, gravel, dirt road wheels and they never disappoint. Not to mention they aren't too shabby on the road either and only 220 or so grams per tire.

Vittoria Open Pave......they probably haven't changed them because there is little to do to make them better. I use them on my "training", i.e. bad road, gravel, dirt road wheels and they never disappoint. Not to mention they aren't too shabby on the road either and only 220 or so grams per tire.

Hmmm, I will certainly go back and re-check my weights. Maybe I didn't weigh a brand new pair? I'll let you know what I find.

Also, I haven't had your experience with the Pave's as mine have performed wonderfully in dirt/gravel situations which can extend for miles on a route I take regularly. Maybe the dirt/gravel has larger chunks rather than the flint you are referring to

Well years later I have tried all the tires. No contest. Not even close. The Michelin ProRace 2 in size 25. Still find them once in a while. I think they are about 260g and measure 27mm. Great ride and durability. Traction and handling on dirt and gravel is the best.

Hmmm, I will certainly go back and re-check my weights. Maybe I didn't weigh a brand new pair? I'll let you know what I find.

Also, I haven't had your experience with the Pave's as mine have performed wonderfully in dirt/gravel situations which can extend for miles on a route I take regularly. Maybe the dirt/gravel has larger chunks rather than the flint you are referring to

Will be amazed if you weigh a few new ones on an accurate scale and they come out at 220g. 245-250g pretty consistent IME

Smaller flint kills them yes. Generally their puncture protection is pretty good however.

Gregario - have you tried the Optimums, as they certainly seem to have the 27c look to them. I've ridden with a customer on some truly gnarly gravel (he was seriously the ONLY client we've had all year who could have still been smiling at the end of it), and he had a pair of Optimums on Zipp 101 - they looked like Balloons!!!

Sawyer - can you back up your durability comment for the Optimums. I'd love to hear a bit more of your experience so I can understand how it relates to what I'm planning. Also, have you any comparison to the Pro4Endurance?

I have a been running 23mm GP4000s over a fair bit of gravel roads and they have stood up pretty well. I typically get one flat per year and it has always been the side wall that has failed presumably after having hit a larger rock.

Gregario - have you tried the Optimums, as they certainly seem to have the 27c look to them. I've ridden with a customer on some truly gnarly gravel (he was seriously the ONLY client we've had all year who could have still been smiling at the end of it), and he had a pair of Optimums on Zipp 101 - they looked like Balloons!!!

Sawyer - can you back up your durability comment for the Optimums. I'd love to hear a bit more of your experience so I can understand how it relates to what I'm planning. Also, have you any comparison to the Pro4Endurance?

HI - I have a set that have done some commuting service through London with no punctures. That said, I've only had one set ... a victim to too many tyres to ride and too little time. But they are really a reinforced version of a 25mm ProGrip. Not like Krylions though ... much more supple and fast rolling. In fact I think the front essentially is a big ProGrip and the back has all the additional tread.

my michelin pro4 sc 25mm weigh 220-225g. they measure 26.5 on a quite narrow rim (pro lite bracciano. To me these are exelent for bad roads, but not grippy enough for the supersteep gravel paths around here. I can go quite low on pressure as well with latex tubes, 70-80psi is okay with my 75kg

Hmmm, I will certainly go back and re-check my weights. Maybe I didn't weigh a brand new pair? I'll let you know what I find.

Also, I haven't had your experience with the Pave's as mine have performed wonderfully in dirt/gravel situations which can extend for miles on a route I take regularly. Maybe the dirt/gravel has larger chunks rather than the flint you are referring to

I agree with sawyer in that the Paves are not resistant to punctures when used on roads made of crushed stone (man-made gravel). The small particles are as sharp as pieces of glass and even a brand new Pave will puncture very easily. I think this is due to the soft rubber compound, which makes the flints stuck to the tyre. Otherwise Pave is a great tyre for winter/bad weather riding.

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