I've not watched the GP3 races yet, but both F2 races were very enjoyable and had more than enough overtaking. Particularly through the first couple of corners, where cars were fighting down into turn one and then all the way through the following left/right section. Clearly the F1 race did not follow that trend, but in my opinion the track can lend itself to interesting races and the fact that the F1 race wasn't is more due to the cars than the track.

Dump it and replace with a Tilkedrome that offers more or less the same challenges and characteristics of the other ones.

I like Hungary, for the same reason I like Monza, Monaco, Baku, Singapore and Interlagos. It gives a different challenge and similar to Monaco it puts an emphasis on track position. It is one of the tracks where the art of defensive driving can be fairly rewarded.l

Would I like to see a season of Hungaroring races - no. However I appreciate a different challenge from the typical modern F1 track.

Its likened to Monaco except on a track and Id be quite happy to see that snoozefest cancelled too (lets face it - its only still on the calendar due to its prestige!). The only time when there are interesting races at either of these tracks is when there is rain.

Its likened to Monaco except on a track and Id be quite happy to see that snoozefest cancelled too (lets face it - its only still on the calendar due to its prestige!). The only time when there are interesting races at either of these tracks is when there is rain.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

_________________Shoot999: "And anyone who puts a Y on the end of his name as a nickname should be punched in the face repeatedly."

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

If we have to have such a boring track as Hungary on the calendar, I think your idea has a lot of merit.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

Why someone feels that faster cars should be given all the space in the world to get by slower ones, and thereby giving us the same race winners week in week out, is beyond me. Given the choice between Thierry Boutsen's 3rd F1 victory or Ayrton Senna's 42nd I know which one I would have preferred watching

IMO the base problem is not the track but the cars. And here we go back to a familiar theme, the aero makes it hard for cars to get close and manufacture a pass. How many times has this been discussed, how many different solutions proposed, and how may years has it been a stumbling block?.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

And the race was way more exciting for it. Much more interesting that Senna just breezing passed for yet another win.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

And the race was way more exciting for it. Much more interesting that Senna just breezing passed for yet another win.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

TBH I would say the majority of tracks are boring for racing between the front cars.

Why someone feels that faster cars should be given all the space in the world to get by slower ones,

If you check the text, you'll see that NO ONE has said give cars "all the space in the world".

You are refuting an argument that does not exist here. I've thought about it, but can't really figure out why you are doing this. It's a significant distraction to have to make these specific corrections.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

TBH I would say the majority of tracks are boring for racing between the front cars.

I would still say it's difficult at other tracks because of the dirty air like Malaysia, Spa, Canada, USA.

Basically you're rarely see an overtake up front unless there's a different tyre compound or age. Treasure the few you will see.

Disagree about Japan, Brazil, and Austria.

And while it may be very difficult to pass in those other tracks (Monaco aside) the key point is that it is not impossible, or virtually impossible.

I've got nothing against Hungary. I am against any track where drivers believe that there is 99.9% chance they will never pass someone. That needs to change. Hungary is a primate candidate in this regard. It doesnt have the money and prestige of Monaco.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

TBH I would say the majority of tracks are boring for racing between the front cars.

I would still say it's difficult at other tracks because of the dirty air like Malaysia, Spa, Canada, USA.

Basically you're rarely see an overtake up front unless there's a different tyre compound or age. Treasure the few you will see.

Disagree about Japan, Brazil, and Austria.

And while it may be very difficult to pass in those other tracks (Monaco aside) the key point is that it is not impossible, or virtually impossible.

I've got nothing against Hungary. I am against any track where drivers believe that there is 99.9% chance they will never pass someone. That needs to change. Hungary is a primate candidate in this regard. It doesnt have the money and prestige of Monaco.

I would say between the top cars on the same strategies it's virtually impossible to overtake including Austria which was proven, Japan and Brazil will be the same. Brazil and Japan will only see overtakes if it rains.

It's not like it's ever been easy to overtake at the front but I'm just stating at the front it's near impossible at most tracks.

Perhaps a little thought should be given to the calendar and perhaps ensure that we don't go into the break from a track like Hungary which has had more than it's fair share of processions. Hungary should probably be the first race of two back to back races in future, not the borefest that leads into the break.

It's a "borefest" no more frequently than most other tracks.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

And the race was way more exciting for it. Much more interesting that Senna just breezing passed for yet another win.

Hungary, along with Monaco, has long had a reputation for producing exceedingly dull F1 races. That alone shows that your statement above is incorrect. Most other tracks do NOT have this type of reputation.

"....the Hungarian Grand Prix is associated with processional races, with sometimes many cars following one another, unable to pass. Thierry Boutsen demonstrated this perfectly in 1990, keeping his slower Williams car in front of champion-elect Ayrton Senna, unable to find a way by."

A track where the likes of Senna cannot find a way past a slower car. Yeah, that's a quality I like to have in a track.

And the race was way more exciting for it. Much more interesting that Senna just breezing passed for yet another win.

The 1990 race was a very good one actually.

You and I watch Formula One for VERY different reasons.

Have you watched the race in question?

I certainly did, but that was a long time ago and do not recall it specifically.

I like Hungary because it gives a slower car a chance. If you are 1.5s a lap slower.... you've a chance of keeping in front with good defensive driving. Places the emphasis away from raw speed and onto tactics, track position, qualifying, etc.

Over a season I want to see tight tracks, I want to see wide tracks. I want fast tracks, I want slow tracks. I want technically simple and technically difficult. Chassis tracks, aero tracks, bumpy tracks, smooth tracks, big braking tracks..... and everything in between.

Sure we could have pretty looking, easy overtake Tilke type tracks where one set up (with minor tweaks) fits all.... but that would be boring and.... would always suit the same cars and drivers provided conditions remained similar.

I like my f1 season to give variety. A season of Spa and Suzuka would be boring (despite being 2 of the very best tracks in the world) as both offer similar challenges.

It was a good race. I can't understand why anyone would think it would be more exciting if Senna and cruised past and sailed into the sunset for yet another win.

And I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better.

It's 100% artificial. And if artificial wins impress you, then I can begin to understand why you want Hungary on the calendar.

Anyway, reading more about this race there are some amazing facts. 39 cars showed up to race! Prequalifying weeded out 9 cars and 30 took the green flag.That seems amazing today.

So too you it's not a good race if the fastest package doesn't win?

Hilarious! This entire thread has turned into about how slower cars can keep faster cars behind them. We have people here proudly proclaiming that they like Hungary because the slower cars have a chance. Fastest package? Puuhleese!

In 1990 the fastest package most certainly did not win. The Williams qualified fastest yes. Being on pole does not mean you have the fastest package. It's a snapshot in time. It's a measure of who is fastest over a very short number of laps (6 in 1990?).

The race is what determines the fastest package and all because of the near impossibility of passing at Hungary (5 or 6 cars crashed out trying to pull off passes; it's that impossible), a car that virtually every one acknowledges as being slower than Senna's won.

It is you who do not want the fastest cars wining the race. You just posted earlier about how boring it would have been had Senna gotten past the Williams and drove away (like he most certainly would have).

You don't even want what you claim to want! That is very inconsistent.

... I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better...

Over the course of the season the cream generally rises to the top. But, like many other sports, every underdog may have its day. It's not about one race determining that one ('substandard') driver / package is better then another, more the tension in whether the outsider can hold off the favourite. Adds a little spice to life, n'est ce pas?

It was a good race. I can't understand why anyone would think it would be more exciting if Senna and cruised past and sailed into the sunset for yet another win.

And I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better.

It's 100% artificial. And if artificial wins impress you, then I can begin to understand why you want Hungary on the calendar.

Anyway, reading more about this race there are some amazing facts. 39 cars showed up to race! Prequalifying weeded out 9 cars and 30 took the green flag.That seems amazing today.

So too you it's not a good race if the fastest package doesn't win?

Hilarious! This entire thread has turned into about how slower cars can keep faster cars behind them. We have people here proudly proclaiming that they like Hungary because the slower cars have a chance. Fastest package? Puuhleese!

In 1990 the fastest package most certainly did not win. The Williams qualified fastest yes. Being on pole does not mean you have the fastest package. It's a snapshot in time. It's a measure of who is fastest over a very short number of laps (6 in 1990?).

The race is what determines the fastest package and all because of the near impossibility of passing at Hungary (5 or 6 cars crashed out trying to pull off passes; it's that impossible), a car that virtually every one acknowledges as being slower than Senna's won.

It is you who do not want the fastest cars wining the race. You just posted earlier about how boring it would have been had Senna gotten past the Williams and drove away (like he most certainly would have).

You don't even want what you claim to want! That is very inconsistent.

It was a good race. I can't understand why anyone would think it would be more exciting if Senna and cruised past and sailed into the sunset for yet another win.

And I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better.

It's 100% artificial. And if artificial wins impress you, then I can begin to understand why you want Hungary on the calendar.

Anyway, reading more about this race there are some amazing facts. 39 cars showed up to race! Prequalifying weeded out 9 cars and 30 took the green flag.That seems amazing today.

It was 100% genuine. The Boutsen-Williams package was the better package for the circuit conditions on that weekend. Boutsen started from pole. If Senna and McLaren wanted to win they should have started from the front

I actually can't understand how someone would want F1 to be as boring as you do. Go to the same tracks so we can have the same winners. I'm yawning just typing that out

It was a good race. I can't understand why anyone would think it would be more exciting if Senna and cruised past and sailed into the sunset for yet another win.

And I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better.

You may have forgotten that the Renault engine in the Williams was a new version, and installed just prior the Hungarian Grand Prix. The combination of engine and car was perfect for the track, as shown by the other Williams sharing the front row. Why you think the Williams was substandard to the McLaren, I simply can't understand. Thierry Boutsen himself readily agrees he was not as fast as Senna, and I would remind you they were good friends. But Boutsen was a lot better than you or even he himself thought. He had pole position that race, and one of the deciding things was not coming in for a pitstop to change tyres. The reason why Senna was unable to pass, was that Boutsen was kind on tyres, and drove a perfect defence. Being long before the days of DRS, a driver might have somebody right behind him, yet be able to defend without running people off the track. This race by Boutsen reminded me of the 1985 Dutch Grand Prix, where Prost was also unable to get by. That's how important a good defence can and should be. Except that these days, DRS makes for artificial overtaking.

Herb Tarlik wrote:

It's 100% artificial. And if artificial wins impress you, then I can begin to understand why you want Hungary on the calendar.

I don't understand why you would consider the fastest car on the track getting pole position artificial. It may not have been Senna's lucky weekend, with Gerhard Berger outqualifying him, but the fact is that Boutsen outqualified Senna by nearly a quarter of a second. Best car/driver combination on pole, surely that's not artificial?

What I call artificial is mandatory use of more than one tyre compound per race, and therefore, mandatory pitstops.

Herb Tarlik wrote:

Anyway, reading more about this race there are some amazing facts. 39 cars showed up to race! Prequalifying weeded out 9 cars and 30 took the green flag.That seems amazing today.

It doesn't seem amazing, it positively was! Imagine arriving at Francorchamps on Friday morning, and having to pre-qualify. No testing, just into the car on the basic set-up as decided by the team. The late summer early morning mist still lingering on the Kemmel straight and F1 cars trying to set a good enough time between 8 and 9 in the morning, in order to be allowed to go through to testing an hour later... To me, that was almost better than the rest of the weekend.

_________________Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

I actually can't understand how someone would want F1 to be as boring as you do.

What an astonishingly ignorant statement to make. You simply have no idea whatsoever, not even the slightest crumb of knowledge, about what I want about F1. That statement proves that beyond a shred of a doubt.

Why you think the Williams was substandard to the McLaren, I simply can't understand.

Easy. 30+ years of watching racing informs me that whenever a car is able to catch up to the one in front and hang with them virtually nose to tail, lap after lap, very often (99% of the time) is the quicker car. We saw that in Hungary this weekend. Lewis caught up to Bottas and stuck behind him lap after lap. Due to the impossibility of passing at Hungary, Lewis did not even attempt a pass. Team orders got him around and once clear of Bottas, he motored away from him easily. I would bet my paycheck that had Ferrari let Kimi past Vettel (who also was tailing the car in front lap after lap after lap), Kimi would have powered away with total ease. He had the quicker car last Sunday but the track does not allow for cars to pass unless there is a massive difference in power.

Another point- Lewis had to slow down by NINE SECONDS to let Bottas retake 3 place. Nine seconds!

If Ayrton Senna is 0.3 seconds behind any car, lap after lap after lap, and cannot pass, or doesnt even attempt a pass, then you can be certain that you are not watching a race. You are watching a parade.

I don't understand why you would consider the fastest car on the track getting pole position artificial. It may not have been Senna's lucky weekend, with Gerhard Berger outqualifying him, but the fact is that Boutsen outqualified Senna by nearly a quarter of a second. Best car/driver combination on pole, surely that's not artificial?

What I call artificial is mandatory use of more than one tyre compound per race, and therefore, mandatory pitstops.

I dont dispute that Boutsen drove the fastest on Saturday. That was qualifying and was a short snapshot in time, to set the starting grid. Very often a car/driver can punch above its weight for qualifying. Tyre choice, fueling choice (back when that was an option), could affect qualifying speed. In those cases I would not make the claim that being on pole meant that you had the fastest total package.

I agree that mandatory tyre compound changes are beyond stupid. I would get rid of that rule in a heartbeat!

It was a good race. I can't understand why anyone would think it would be more exciting if Senna and cruised past and sailed into the sunset for yet another win.

And I can't understand why anyone is even remotely impressed that a car and driver, both severely substandard to Senna and his car, can somehow be determined by a sporting event to be better.

It's 100% artificial. And if artificial wins impress you, then I can begin to understand why you want Hungary on the calendar.

Anyway, reading more about this race there are some amazing facts. 39 cars showed up to race! Prequalifying weeded out 9 cars and 30 took the green flag.That seems amazing today.

So too you it's not a good race if the fastest package doesn't win?

Hilarious! This entire thread has turned into about how slower cars can keep faster cars behind them. We have people here proudly proclaiming that they like Hungary because the slower cars have a chance. Fastest package? Puuhleese!

In 1990 the fastest package most certainly did not win. The Williams qualified fastest yes. Being on pole does not mean you have the fastest package. It's a snapshot in time. It's a measure of who is fastest over a very short number of laps (6 in 1990?).

The race is what determines the fastest package and all because of the near impossibility of passing at Hungary (5 or 6 cars crashed out trying to pull off passes; it's that impossible), a car that virtually every one acknowledges as being slower than Senna's won.

It is you who do not want the fastest cars wining the race. You just posted earlier about how boring it would have been had Senna gotten past the Williams and drove away (like he most certainly would have).

You don't even want what you claim to want! That is very inconsistent.

All I want is a season with variety.

I want variety too, but with racing intact. Clearly you are willing to set that aside in order to promote an artificial level of variety (allowing slower cars to beat faster ones). I would rather that not happen.