It is Immoral to Spend our Great-Grandchildren’s Money

We are currently spending our grandchildren and great-grandchildren’s money to make our lives better today and that is immoral.

And no, Republicans, it is not all the fault of the president and the Democrats. It is true that the Obama administration has exploded the growth of the debt in unprecedented ways, but other than the Republican congress right after the “Contract with America” (in 1994 – and, yes, President Clinton cooperated in the effort) there has been little evidence of either party really caring about the debt.

So, we have amassed a debt that is over 16 trillion dollars. I remember when it was considered scandalous that we were buying debt in the 200 to 400 billion range annually. Now, it is well over a trillion dollars each year and all we are doing is asking ourselves how much more we can get for us, our projects and our side.

So, the facts are pretty simple. We are borrowing money that our grandchildren, great-grandchildren and their grandchildren will have to repay so that we can continue to fund our comfortable lives right now. We want our government payouts and our low cost of living and we don’t care if someone else has to pay it.

To me, the greatest moral issue in America is abortion – the brutal murder of a baby inside its mother’s womb. Unthinkable. Dwight McKissic has argued, convincingly to me, that the racism that remains in America is another great moral issue. There are issues out there that we need to be concerned about.

But we have to stop looking at the debt as a political issue. We need to see it for what it is – a sinful act by which we rob our grandchildren to pay for our own comforts. Parents are meant to sacrifice for their children, not steal from them. America and its people are willing accomplices to this by electing people who promise to give us this and give us that. We need to start holding politicians feet to the fire about the national debt.

We are going to have to curb spending. Yes, that will hurt, but it has to be done.

We will have to pay more taxes in this time – across the board. We are all going to have to share that burden. For a huge percentage of Americans, tax time is not a burden but a bonanza. With earned income credit and child care credits, many (I have heard that the percentage nears half of all American taxpayers) have a net payout from the treasury instead of paying into it. We’ve turned tax day into a massive money giveaway. No wonder we have some problems. From the bottom to the top, we have to pay what we need to pay NOW so that our great-grandchildren do not get stuck with the bill.

We must consistently vote for candidates who do not promise us the moon but demonstrate a genuine concern about reducing our federal (and state) debt.

I hope this does not come off as partisan. One reason I am a Republican instead of a Democrat (other than abortion and other moral issues) is because I agree with the Republican philosophy on debt reduction. However, Republicans in office have failed miserably to enact those plans when they have had the power. Lip-service must never be enough again. Republicans have been willing accomplices in this national shame.

It is immoral to live well today and send the bill to the generations that follow. It is something that needs to stop.

Some people (democrats and those advocating the “social gospel” need to realize that this means we’re not going to be able to provide for EVERYONE’S needs. Those who are unable to take care of themselves are not gonig to get everything they want. People who don’t want to work hard for what they need are going to find that government can’t play catch up and provide them the same lifestyle as people who are willing to work hard.

As an example, I heard of a guy in line at the grocery store who heard the woman in line in front of him bragging on her iPhone that she’d just purchased a new iPhone 5. When she paid for her groceries, she paid with an EBT card (food stamps). She has no right to own an iPhone 5 and get food stamps. Those on government assistance like that ought to have that assistance reduced when they are able to purchase toys because the government buys them food.

That’s like the folks that we’ll give food to at the food pantry this week that stand outside, smoking a cigarette, throw it out to come in, get free food, then go out and light up a new one.

If they would spend their cigarette money on food, they would eat better than what we’re able to give.

And every one of the people I have encountered that behavior in check the same ethnic group box that I do. It’s not a racial issue.

But, we keep giving food because in between those folks are the women abandoned by their husbands with hungry kids; the senior citizens who worked odd jobs all their lives and had no retirement savings; the men who were injured doing farm labor years ago when there were no personal injury lawyers—and who still work when they can, but just don’t have skills or fully-able bodies.

It’s some kind of mess: people need helping and alongside that, people abuse the helping systems. Which bankrupts those systems.

Fixing that issue shouldn’t be seen as racist or sexist or anything-ist. If we don’t fix EBT/Medicaid/Medicare/EIC/WIC/SNAP by eliminating fraud and abuse, then those truly in need suffer.

And you’re right, if you can get a brand-new iPhone or any other luxury gadget (phones that do more than phone are luxury gadgets) then you shouldn’t be needing assistance with food. Food comes first.

Restricting government help to those who truly can’t help themselves. Punishing people who are on government assistance but drive brand new cars and buy iPhones by reducing their food, housing, and medical assistance by an amount equal to that. Educating those on the government dole that they are not going to be able to achieve anything close to a middle class lifestyle, but at least they won’t starve.

Dave Miller, I have considered the national debt to the biggest issue in each election since 1996 (when I became aware of what the budget deficit and national debt really entails). Thank you for your irenic and balanced perspective. I always liked the fact that Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton locked horns in the mid-1990s, simply because their partisan agendas were forced out the window in order to find common ground on centrist issues – the national debt/deficit being one area of focus. As a result, we had a balanced budget for the first time since the 1960s and the middle class benefited. The middle class seems to always benefit when politicians focus on centrist issues.

However, the nation’s debt can no longer be classified as a “centrist” issue. Our elected representatives obviously have no desire to sacrifice partisan ideals for public interest. Although I recognize that the “Almighty Dollar” may be the biggest idol in America (alongside the humanistic god of “self”), it is perhaps the most important issue in this election. Moral issues are HUGE – abortion is my personal moral litmus test in evaluating a candidate for office. Yet the practical effects of such a huge national debt are enormous, too. If congress ignores the necessity of a balanced budget and the responsibility of reducing our debt, then that will likely be the metaphorical glacier that sinks our proverbial ship.

What’s the rationale then for the GOP’s “miserable failure” on this same front?

Just a couple years ago, 17.2 million households were food insecure with almost half of SNAP recipients being children or the elderly. I’m sure those numbers are higher now. But for those families, tax credits especially EITC are no bonanza (not to mention that EITC was a bipartisan idea that was greatly expanded under Reagan). Fighting poverty through credits and deductions is the definition of Bush’s compassionate conservatism, right?

And, to answer your question, the Republican’s failure was the unwillingness to stick to their principles. I think the Democrat’s problem is their principles, the Republican’s problem is the failure to act on theirs.

I don’t think politics is that simple—simply because there are so many clearly unprincipled people in elected office. Also, we just can’t treat Democrats and Republicans as a monolithic groups respectively. Too much diversity.

What does the reality that much of the national debt is driven by the costs of two simultaneous prolonged wars do to your claim that Republicans simply failed to live out their supposed shared principles?

What happens when principles conflict? Impossible to fund wars and keep a balanced budget. Also, doesn’t the weakened neo-conservative impulse on foreign policy questions within the Republican Party signal that principles often change and evolve just as Congress itself changes and can even do so in the short-term?

Chalking up the national debt to Democrats have bad principles and Republicans failed to live out their principles doesn’t explain our current circumstances.

Considering that the tax code is not “flat,” government giveaways come in many shapes and forms. You are in Iowa, right? I’m sure you know much about those other types of giveaways.

I just don’t view a federally-funded Summer Meals Program or similar programs for the truly poor to be a “government giveaway.” A basic safety net is something that both parties have historically supported.

September 23, 2012 10:28 pm

Frank L.

David,

Good insight in regard to principles.

BDW,

“”””I just don’t view a federally-funded Summer Meals Program or similar programs for the truly poor to be a “government giveaway.” “””””

I think you are correct in general in regard to these types of programs. It would be nice better: 1) for the government to let church members keep more of their money; and 2) those church members provided more of the charity.

I think anything the government can do in this regard, private charities, and especially the church, can do better.

Even saying that, I don’t think we can ever get back to where the government was not a charity.

September 27, 2012 5:10 pm

Christiane

you both bring light to the argument that God’s moral law encompasses all areas of human behavior

September 23, 2012 6:50 pm

Christiane

(comment was directed to DAVID and AARON)

September 23, 2012 6:50 pm

M.O.E.

No doubt there is some abuse in the system. Surely it is not on the scale that you all are making it out to be. Would you want to make severe cuts to the eleven hundred dollars that your parents may receive from Social Security. Would you want to cut their Medicare to the point they have to pay more.
We all have heard about the forty seven percent that don’t pay taxes. The largest portion of the forty seven percent are the retired folks. The next largest portion are the children, and finally there are those that are on some type of assistance for various reasons.
Let’s not be too quick to condemn all who don’t pay taxes, it would be wrong.
We have elected officials that won’t get off the golf course long enough to deal with these issues.

The current state of our national debt is truly horrendous and disgusting.
On a happier note, the Oregon Ducks are loudly quacking as they march bill first toward the #1 spot in the NCAA polls (currently held by CB Scott’s precious Crimson Tide). That’s why it’s called the “Quack Attack”! What’s that I hear boys? The PAC 12 can’t play football? Really?
And it appears that the Yankees will once again endure an American League spanking at the hands of the beloved and saintly Texas Rangers.
National debt? What national debt?????
(Sorry, Dave, but I can find nowhere else to post my current elation.)

Dale, I am an Arizona Wildcat fan, and I certainly do not appreciate the beating that we took at Autzen last night. We had a really nice winning streak going there a few years back. Actually, Arizona did run up some impressive yardage, and got into the red zone six times, but the wheels came off in the second half. Still, I have quite an appreciation for Oregon and the Pac-12. One thing I don’t think you’ll ever see is the Crimson Tide playing in Eugene.

Our government debt and spending policies are a reflection of what the American people want. It’s the way most people handle their personal finances these days. It’s a philosophical view that has come forward in force with the baby boomer generation, and it is being passed along. But let me step on some toes. It’s hard for Christians to preach to this issue. Churches in this country have become high priority business for lenders, at high interest rates, spending significant amounts of their money on debt service to construct facilities for their own, inward selfishness. There is very little creativity in building multi-million dollar facilities, mainly for our own comfort and enjoyment, complete with recreation facilities and other devices to occupy our time. Not only is the debt service a waste, but the money spent on the building is too. Church debt has, according to several sources, including the SBC’s own Lifeway, grown exponentially in the past two decades. But I digress. Necessarily.

George Washington’s warning about the divisiveness and ineffectiveness of partisan politics is true. Neither party is serious about cutting spending, because the defense budget could also take a major trimming and the Republicans aren’t serious about that, and corporate subsidies aren’t even being discussed. BTW, I became an independent several election cycles back when I realized the Republicans were just going to give lip service on the social issues like abortion, too.

Look at the third party candidates and see if there’s someone among them who is serious about these issues, and vote your conscience. If enough people do that, it will at least send a message.

I haven’t seen much from third party or off-brand politicians that make me think they are any real improvement.

I think that we have to begin to approach the national debt issue as a moral issue, not just a fiscal one.

September 23, 2012 9:33 pm

Christiane

The really GOOD thing about God’s Law is that for those who follow it, or attempt to, they will come to the place on their journey that asks of them more than they can possibly do on their own.

Hence the concept of ‘communio’, of being a part of something more than ourselves, of accepting a role in a greater enterprise than our own selfishness . . . the concept of ‘communio’ is best expressed by St. Paul in sacred Scripture, here:
“The chalice of blessing, which we bless, is it not a participation [“communion” in the Italian text] in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? Because there is but one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread” (I Cor. 10:16)

But there is more:
WITHOUT CHRIST, THERE ARE NO SOLUTIONS

It will always be that Christian people in ‘communio’ will feel responsible for others, the healthy for the sick, the rich for the poor.
It means a sense of individual awareness, of reciprocal responsibility;
it means we are conscious that when we give, we receive,
and that we can always give only what has been given to us
and that what we have been given never belongs to us for ourselves alone.

Christian people who live according to God’s moral law offer something wonderful to the world:
Sometimes we call it ‘Sanctuary’ – a place of rest and peace surrounded by the followers of Our Lord who have the heart of Christ within them and who offer for those who are troubled, a place to come and rest a while and be cared for.
Sometimes we call it ‘hospitality’ – a place of welcome that receives those who are suffering so that they can be nurtured by people who bear within themselves the heart of Christ . . .
Whatever you call what is offered by Christian people to the world, it comes down to this:
WITHOUT CHRIST, THERE ARE NO SOLUTIONS

a young woman pregnant and frightened can find many places to go, but if Christian people in ‘communio’ offer to her ‘sanctuary’ and ‘hospitality’, she is received into a community which has the heart of Christ.

“We will have to pay more taxes in this time – across the board. We are all going to have to share that burden.”

If I’m going to be able to keep affording to feed my kids today, then I cannot afford to pay more taxes. Whatever the future may bring for my kids, I know what the present brings for my kids if expenses get much higher – and this is my concern with the tax increase known as Obamacare.

We can certainly consider the national debt issue as a moral one. It is. But health care is also a moral issue, not just a business enterprise. Unless you are one who is at the mercy of big insurance, and corporate medicine, you don’t have any sympathy for those of us who are. I can’t afford to pay health insurance premiums that don’t go to cover my health care, but pay $100 million bonuses to insurance company executives. I’ve been in situations where a health insurance company “case worker” has made a medical decision affecting my life, rather than letting my doctor do it, because it wasn’t a matter of what was best for my health, it was a matter of what the insurance company wanted to pay for, even though I had handed them a considerable sum in premiums. That certainly affects who appears to be the “lesser of two evils” from my perspective. Of course, I see Dwight McKissic’s statement that voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. I don’t really like the choices we have this time around.

Health care is not a moral issue in that God does not expect the government to solve it. There is no biblical mandate for socialized medicine, no matter how loudly you moderates and left-wingers cry “It is, it is, it is!!!!!”

September 27, 2012 4:20 pm

Bruce H.

We the people must push for financial reform, and now. Leaving it in the hands of politicians will allow legal corruption to continue. We have over bought and the cost of maintenance is staggering. It was like we won the lottery in 94 and spent recklessly ever sense. The only solution is total government control or people control. Half the nation really thinks the government needs to fix it and that is going to be our downfall. We the people need to take it out of the politicians hand and fix it ourselves. That could get nasty, but it is necessary and legal.

September 24, 2012 4:30 am

M.O.E.

As we talk about moral issues, national debt issues, and legal corruption,
we are careful not to point a finger to any particular group of people. As I try to read between the lines, it seems that this conversation is about those that are on some form of Governament check.

I want to take this time to defend those on Social Security and Medicare.
I have been paying taxes since I was fourteen years old, I am considered an elderly gentleman now. I have been paying Social Security since I was fourteen years old.
I have been through paying the high cost of health insurance, and know what it is like.
I know what it is like to raise a family, with all the costs involved in doing so, home, care, insurance, electric, phone, clothes, doctor bills, food, and a whole lot of other things, I didn’t even mention Church and lending a helping hand to other people.
I am hurt by the comments that some have made, saying we have to do some cutting. I have a brain tumor that has made me legally blind, I have a tough time even writing this. I am one that has worked all my life, I deserve Social Security. I’ll bet If you went to your parents and told them they didn’t deserve Social Security they would probably give you a mouth full. Not only they would give you a mouth full, but forget Sunday dinner. I want you to know, that it is now a bed of roses being on Social Security.
One definitely has to watch their p’s and q’s in order to survive.
Some people draw less than I do. They are hurting.
In my opinion, it is so easy to say the word “cut” but down here where the rubber meets the highway, down here in the valley, people are hurting.
Maby you know some cases where some might not deserve what they receive from the governament, I don’t know. You shouldn’t try to hang the rest of us who have paid and paid dearly all our lives.
Don’t hang the ones who has diapered you fed and clothed you, wiped your butt, and held you when you were sick.
Why not cut the ones that receive free money, like the oil companies,
governaments around the world, congress and the senate, Only the Lord knows how much we give away.
Yes I am offended.

September 27, 2012 3:43 pm

Frank L.

“””” I deserve Social Security””””

On this, we totally agree. You earned your Social Security. It is not a gift from the government. It is called a “Trust” for a reason.

September 27, 2012 3:51 pm

M.O.E.

Some of you pastor’s need to tell your church that their Social Security benefits need to be cut. Guess what will happen.

September 27, 2012 3:49 pm

M.O.E.

Dave Miller,
I have to disagree with you on what you said earlier, “generational dependance on governmental checks”. Sir, sir, sir, this is almost funny. In case I misunderstood you, what does this phrase mean.

September 27, 2012 4:48 pm

M.O.E.

Frank L.
Thank you, We have got to get you out of purgatory. You can only get this type of humor from Kentucky.

September 27, 2012 4:54 pm

M.O.E.

Dave Miller,
Never mind I know what you mean, I had to think about it, and I agree it is a problem. With the current laws what can we do?