Lets first talk about Linux.
Pros.
Ubuntu 11.10 runs GREAT on the nettop. Its fast, you don't need a HDD because with linux you can boot from SD card. I also think the Wifi driver for linux is better then the windows one, at least dealing with n. XBMC runs fantastic my HD rips run fine but I took a uncompressed bluray rip today and it did stutter a little bit I would say about 90%.

Cons.
Flash is pretty much out of the questions. I don't think the flash plugin or the AMD linux driver are up to the task. Even normal SD flash skips a bit.
1080p HD can sometimes stutter.

Now onto Windows.
Pros.
The OS is fluid, just as fluid as my i7. Flash works damn near perfect. You can watch 1080p or any other resolution you want. drivers and a cinch to find. Windows update pretty much takes care of everything. XBMC is screaming fast and drivers are updated constantly.

But I like the smaller form of yours better. Any idea where i can find it for the non black friday price?

NOw im a bit confused you mentioned it cant play flash at 1080p reliably but then it played the dark knight trailer fine.
But your first video had stutter so that concerns me, was that in a linux browser? I know nothing about linux. I am planning on using openelec or xbmc live.

Windows has better driver support for the AMD E-350
Everything will play fine on windows. It was Linux that has trouble with HD Flash because of horrible drivers.

Linux will play HD formats just fine its just HD flash it has trouble with

Installing Ubuntu 11.10 then XBMC is recommended over the prebuilt xbmc live. Because this chipset is relatively new you don't want to be stuck with the older drivers/software

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin

Just my opinion but I don't really want anything that can barely play current videos from today. Doesn't bode well for tomorrow.

Well you can look at it would you rather spend 100 dollars now and then again when a new format comes out or buy a 3 or 400 dollar PC and be pretty sure it will play format when it comes out. But as I said this is more of a secondary HTPC for maybe your bedroom/basement/kitchen.

I biggest grief about these super small form factor is that they all require a power brick. Which makes the cable quite messy.

I am not a fan of Apple but I am very impressed how Apple fit a power supply inside the Apple TV.

I guess as far as linux goes. I would rather try to hack something up like the Apple TV, the Raspberry Pi or even the thumb drive like devices seen in CES. The E-350 is really meant to run Windows.

BTW, Windows can be made to boot off USB flash drive. I have done it with Windows XP. There are many tutorials on the web to do it for Win7. I believe the SD card reader is also USB based. But I think the USB 3.0 ports are more suitable.

I biggest grief about these super small form factor is that they all require a power brick. Which makes the cable quite messy.

I am not a fan of Apple but I am very impressed how Apple fit a power supply inside the Apple TV.

I guess as far as linux goes. I would rather try to hack something up like the Apple TV, the Raspberry Pi or even the thumb drive like devices seen in CES. The E-350 is really meant to run Windows.

BTW, Windows can be made to boot off USB flash drive. I have done it with Windows XP. There are many tutorials on the web to do it for Win7. I believe the SD card reader is also USB based. But I think the USB 3.0 ports are more suitable.

Yeah that would have been nice is the PSU was inside, but what are you gonna do its smaller then my laptop power brick.

As for the windows on a USB device I figured there was a way to do it, but im a Linux user so I really didn't feel like messing with it forever, good to know that I would be able to boot it up.

Apple TV, seems like a decent product but im pretty against Apple whole business model. If you have one handy we should find some common benchmarks and test them. They are about the same price would be nice to see what is fast.

I biggest grief about these super small form factor is that they all require a power brick. Which makes the cable quite messy.

I am not a fan of Apple but I am very impressed how Apple fit a power supply inside the Apple TV.

I guess as far as linux goes. I would rather try to hack something up like the Apple TV, the Raspberry Pi or even the thumb drive like devices seen in CES. The E-350 is really meant to run Windows.

BTW, Windows can be made to boot off USB flash drive. I have done it with Windows XP. There are many tutorials on the web to do it for Win7. I believe the SD card reader is also USB based. But I think the USB 3.0 ports are more suitable.

Curious why you would rather use apple tv or something like that which cannot run 1080p smoothly?

I biggest grief about these super small form factor is that they all require a power brick. Which makes the cable quite messy.

I am not a fan of Apple but I am very impressed how Apple fit a power supply inside the Apple TV.

I guess as far as linux goes. I would rather try to hack something up like the Apple TV, the Raspberry Pi or even the thumb drive like devices seen in CES. The E-350 is really meant to run Windows.

BTW, Windows can be made to boot off USB flash drive. I have done it with Windows XP. There are many tutorials on the web to do it for Win7. I believe the SD card reader is also USB based. But I think the USB 3.0 ports are more suitable.

Pretty sure apple TV uses an arm based CPU, so you are talking nil power use.

I bought two of these things and when they work they work great. The problem is that I'm having one bsod after another.

I'm sure that updating the bios will work but windows 7 won't run the update from foxconn's website. Is there a better way?

I didn't need the wireless so I disabled it.
I unplugged the internal speaker because it never shut off and the sound quality wasn't very good.
I removed the cpu cooling fan and scraped off the foam garbage that they used as a thermal paste and put arctic silver 5 on there instead.

All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

I bought two of these things and when they work they work great. The problem is that I'm having one bsod after another.

I'm sure that updating the bios will work but windows 7 won't run the update from foxconn's website. Is there a better way?

I didn't need the wireless so I disabled it.
I unplugged the internal speaker because it never shut off and the sound quality wasn't very good.
I removed the cpu cooling fan and scraped off the foam garbage that they used as a thermal paste and put arctic silver 5 on there instead.

Intresting. I've been running mine since blackfriday with no BSOD. Funny thing is though I pushed the magnets into the case so I had to remove the motherboard to push them into the right spot so it forced me to reapply the thermal paste since day one. I also notice it seems that the GFX chip was slight lower then the CPU so I cut a square in the center of the thermal pad and put paste in that seems to be working just fine. What BSOD error are you getting? I've also heard they can be picky with memory so if anyone is planning to buy one of these you can see my memory model uptop.

Just my opinion but I don't really want anything that can barely play current videos from today. Doesn't bode well for tomorrow.

IMO, tomorrow is irrelevant for what barely plays today. I think if it plays now, it will only be better if anything tomorow. Videos arent going to move beyond 1080p for the foreseeable future, and as far as containers/formats/compression goes, I think things will only change for the better in terms of efficiency if anything and not backwards. Now combined with future front ends which may end up requiring more resources to run well, that is a different story of course. Most basic HTPC functions are it either works or it doesnt sort of thing, so you dont really get the same each bump up in specs net you a few percentage points faster operation like typical computer use.

I know you def know your stuff with HTPC's, but I think on the same note, you are a little too quick to write off some of these low power setups. While a few bucks more def gets you a MUCH more powerfull setup with a lot more potential, I think these type units are fine for people who just want a basic setup to maybe replace cable boxes as well as simply playing their ripped/downloaded video collections. They are simple, small, known very quiet, and cheap (this one for example not much over $150 including the DVD drive at times). Seems once tweaked up propperly, 1080p silverlight like netflix is the only big shortcoming in basic functionality these days. I cant comment on the silverlight as I dont use netflix or anything using it, but overall mine works great for TV/DVR, feeding 360 extender, and all my downloaded stuff incl 1080p MKV's. Now I'll never be able to do anything crazy with it like hardcore ripping and reencoding, or very intensive post processing, etc...but even at the level it can do, it's just as good if not a little better then what the typical cable box puts out.

IMO, tomorrow is irrelevant for what barely plays today. I think if it plays now, it will only be better if anything tomorow. Videos arent going to move beyond 1080p for the foreseeable future, and as far as containers/formats/compression goes, I think things will only change for the better in terms of efficiency if anything and not backwards. Now combined with future front ends which may end up requiring more resources to run well, that is a different story of course. Most basic HTPC functions are it either works or it doesnt sort of thing, so you dont really get the same each bump up in specs net you a few percentage points faster operation like typical computer use.

I know you def know your stuff with HTPC's, but I think on the same note, you are a little too quick to write off some of these low power setups. While a few bucks more def gets you a MUCH more powerfull setup with a lot more potential, I think these type units are fine for people who just want a basic setup to maybe replace cable boxes as well as simply playing their ripped/downloaded video collections. They are simple, small, known very quiet, and cheap (this one for example not much over $150 including the DVD drive at times). Seems once tweaked up propperly, 1080p silverlight like netflix is the only big shortcoming in basic functionality these days. I cant comment on the silverlight as I dont use netflix or anything using it, but overall mine works great for TV/DVR, feeding 360 extender, and all my downloaded stuff incl 1080p MKV's. Now I'll never be able to do anything crazy with it like hardcore ripping and reencoding, or very intensive post processing, etc...but even at the level it can do, it's just as good if not a little better then what the typical cable box puts out.

All valid points.

I have been reading about this little PC today and like some of the things that I am reading. It does seem like you still need to add a hard drive and RAM along with Windows 7 of course. So the $180 machine quickly turns in to a $350 machine and then I don't think it is much better than something I could build that's almost as small but a hell of a lot better PC.

I bought two of these things and when they work they work great. The problem is that I'm having one bsod after another.

I'm sure that updating the bios will work but windows 7 won't run the update from foxconn's website. Is there a better way?

I didn't need the wireless so I disabled it.
I unplugged the internal speaker because it never shut off and the sound quality wasn't very good.
I removed the cpu cooling fan and scraped off the foam garbage that they used as a thermal paste and put arctic silver 5 on there instead.

If you have the original ver1 BIOS installed, it probably will fix your issues as nearly every BIOS release since has addressed RAM issues. As far as updating goes....just download HP USBTool and make a bootable thumb drive, drag the extract BIOS download on to it, and boot from the thumb drive, then let it do its thing.

I have never had that big of a problem with the ext speaker, but I also unplugged it just to avoid the nice little pop when the machine powers up before switching to the normal audio source.

With the AS5....how did that affect your temps? This thing runs warm not surprisingly due to the notebook type cooling solution, but it can handle it. I have thought about cleaning up the factory stuff and putting on some AS5 myself just cause I have some laying around, but havent gotten around to doing it at all. Did it make a noticeable difference?

I have been reading about this little PC today and like some of the things that I am reading. It does seem like you still need to add a hard drive and RAM along with Windows 7 of course. So the $180 machine quickly turns in to a $350 machine and then I don't think it is much better than something I could build that's almost as small but a hell of a lot better PC.

That's all I am saying. Where am I wrong?

HDD, RAM, and software I dont take into account as it is all necessary regardless what you build. Size, simplicity, and known quietness is what the attraction is with these if you know your need and wont be asking to do too much out of em. Ones like this model for example, I dont think people know really how small they are untill seen in person. It's literally smaller then a lot of routers! Small enough to VESA mount it on even wall mounted setups if the way the wall bracket installs allows it.

As for myself, I knew what my needs were and this would work, even if it meant closing off potential in which case would of gone unused anyways. I actually was right on the fence leaning towards an ITX G620 setup as I was looking at right at $200 for case w/PSU, Asus P8H61, retail G620, and 8gb ram (only cause it was literally a couple dollars more then just 4gb). Then right before pulling the trigger, newegg puts this foxconn on sale with matching DVD drive for like $150, plus another $20 for a 4gb stick of ram. Thought about both for awhile. For either setup, I already have hard drives laying around to suit either, windows for both, and a DVD drive for the intel setup if I went that way. Question was would a bigger machine that is much more powerfull with unknown noise properties be worth an extra $30 over a tiny attractive machine that I also felt was a better bet being quiet enough for my taste as is that would at least cover my needs. Ultimately it came down to the better bet on quietness in conjunction with price. I felt there was a better chance of throwing together the foxconn and being done with it hardware wise with an acceptable amount of noise vs the intel where I may or may not have found it quiet enough, and if not potentially spending up to an additional $50 if I had to replace the CPU cooler and/or PSU fan to suit my taste, as well as maybe having to add a case fan to control heat.

So in the end, I am not saying these type units are a better option, just a viable one not to be quickly written off depending on the situation.

Question was would a bigger machine that is much more powerfull with unknown noise properties be worth an extra $30 over a tiny attractive machine that I also felt was a better bet being quiet enough for my taste as is that would at least cover my needs. Ultimately it came down to the better bet on quietness in conjunction with price.

I see what you are saying. But unless you need something incredibly small and ultra quiet some might prefer a dramatically more powerful htpc with easier to upgrade (and potentially better quality) parts for $10-$30 more. I have had great success with small builds unsing the stock Intel Cooler [outside of the Habey EMC600 case (which now is almost completely silent after I drilled a 80mm hole in the top of it over the CPU with a bimetal saw)].

But I get your point.

Neither choice is necessarily better than the other. Personally if I am paying $350 for something I would probably get something different with a stronger CPU and easier to upgrade/expand/replace internal parts.

If there was a reliable and easy way to load and run Windows 7 onto a SDHC card or flash drive (which there doesn't appear to be as I have been reading about this for the past hour) then this option becomes much more attractive to me.

Apparently it's possible to boot Win7 from a flash device when this poster said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixelation

BTW, Windows can be made to boot off USB flash drive. I have done it with Windows XP. There are many tutorials on the web to do it for Win7. I believe the SD card reader is also USB based. But I think the USB 3.0 ports are more suitable.

I also had trouble locating this unit on-line... as the Nettop NT-3500 it pops up on Foxconn's site, but the more common listing is parsed a bit differently as Foxconn NTA350-0H0W and also on the egg.

I'd like something tiny and capable... I'm running a Sempron 2.2GHz, 2GB, HD4550 on a Win 7 HomePremium in my bedroom and need just a bit more capability with the DirecTV2PC app and this E-350 seems to be a step above the dual-core Atom units we'd seen. I may jump next there's another combo with the DVD-ROM drive! This is an excellent thread!

YES - that's a very good point! I'd not considered prices... seems the flash is about $32 and todays 32GB SDD are in the $50-55 range although using the internal (SSD) would be a typical Win 7 installation.

Just to play devil's advocate here is another build that I threw together using parts that I tried to keep as comparable as possible...

Note that I added the RAM (which isn't included in the price of the OP's Foxconn) and that you can get a G530 at Microcenter for $40.

So if you take the $12 Microcenter savings and subtract the $19 for the RAM you are looking at $159 for this vs $180 for the OP's Foxconn.

Both are small albeit one is VERY small.

I know which one I would prefer but again, there is no universal correct answer. Just depends on what you want to do and where you want it to go.

Same with Directron.com....that Apex shoebox looking ITX case for $39, Asus P8H61 for $78, Intel G620 for $59, and 4gb ram for $20 (or 8gb for low $20's if you are lucky and find a deal) still gets you just under $200 and gets you an Asus vs Foxconn board and G620 processor. You can def put together an intel machine for cheap if you wanted to.

To be fair though, OP paid $80 on black friday, not $180, so about $100 even with + 4gb ram.

If you have the original ver1 BIOS installed, it probably will fix your issues as nearly every BIOS release since has addressed RAM issues. As far as updating goes....just download HP USBTool and make a bootable thumb drive, drag the extract BIOS download on to it, and boot from the thumb drive, then let it do its thing.

I have never had that big of a problem with the ext speaker, but I also unplugged it just to avoid the nice little pop when the machine powers up before switching to the normal audio source.

With the AS5....how did that affect your temps? This thing runs warm not surprisingly due to the notebook type cooling solution, but it can handle it. I have thought about cleaning up the factory stuff and putting on some AS5 myself just cause I have some laying around, but havent gotten around to doing it at all. Did it make a noticeable difference?

Thank you for the advice. I have tried using freedos but the files won't show. They're listed as read only so I'm going to try and change that to see if that will allow me to ipdate the BIOS. I may end up using your solution if I am not successful. I'm certain that my blue screens are ram related. I used foxconn's support list but my ram might depend on a bios update in order to work.
I haven't checked the temps so im not able to give you data about possible improvements from the as5 but the fan seems to be a bit more quiet. I put the as5 on there hoping to solve the blue screens. I had the nettop mounted to the back of a television but I removed it because I was afraid of heat issues.

All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Just to play devil's advocate here is another build that I threw together using parts that I tried to keep as comparable as possible...

Note that I added the RAM (which isn't included in the price of the OP's Foxconn) and that you can get a G530 at Microcenter for $40.

So if you take the $12 Microcenter savings and subtract the $19 for the RAM you are looking at $159 for this vs $180 for the OP's Foxconn.

Both are small albeit one is VERY small.

I know which one I would prefer but again, there is no universal correct answer. Just depends on what you want to do and where you want it to go.

Also pretty good bang for the buck, but SB supports dual channel ram, you want two sticks. You know the main hurdle to a cheap system right now is Hard drive prices and it sounds like they are going to be priced high for a while still.

Also pretty good bang for the buck, but SB supports dual channel ram, you want two sticks.

Single vs. dual matters only in price -- get what's cheaper. In the real world there's not much of a performance difference - 5% or so. For HTPC applications, 5% isn't going to make a noticeable difference.

Also pretty good bang for the buck, but SB supports dual channel ram, you want two sticks. You know the main hurdle to a cheap system right now is Hard drive prices and it sounds like they are going to be priced high for a while still.

Have you ever looked into this? You gain less than 5% performance while using dual channel. If you do a search on AVS you will find the article that tested this from 3 or 4 years ago. Its a big myth that dual channel gives you a huge boost.

Still if they are the same price then get dual channel. If you have to use single channel its no big deal --- especially for HTPC.