So where these Polaroid camera’s built under license really the first instant camera’s available in the Soviet Union? They didn’t make them until the late 1980’s. The instantly developing film packs these models use dates all the way back to the early ’70s.

The problem I have with this, is the Russian people/(government?)have stolen so much, in the way of patents and inventions (that’s why Theremin was sent here, to raid our patent office, he was a spy).

Pretty needlessly too I might add, because the Russian people are smart, and inventive on their own. They just seem to have no problem stealing something somebody else has done (exactly too, not even modifying it at all), and calling it their own. (the Boeing bomber is a great example, a copy right down to the logo on the steering column).

Anyway i’m not the least concerned about the skill set of America’s real hackers, you know the ones who work at the National Security Administration (NSA). But i’m certainly not going to foolish discount the skills Russians bring to the table.

You’re completely wrong when you say the Soviets copied the B-29 Superfortress “exactly too, not even modifying it at all”. Wrong, during the course of reverse engineering “Ramp Tramp” they re-engineered the entire plane to be manufactured in METRIC instead of Imperial units. A huge task and it’s impressive as hell that it still looked identical, because it wasn’t really identical at all.

Also i’ve read that Tupolev substituted his own favored airfoil for the TU-4. It is not the same airfoil used on the Boeing B-29. The engines are different as well although use some of the same parts. There are many other differences as well, which is part of the reason the TU-4 ended up weighing over 3100 pounds heavier then the B-29.

Which is all rather odd given Stalin’s order to build and EXACT copy of the B-29. They were so worried about that they copied things like the Boeing emblem on the yoke! lol also just as amusing they replicated things like an accidentally mis-drilled rivet hole in the wing of the boeing example they copied for fear of violating Stalin’s directive to replicate the plane exactly, and they copied the U.S. IFF system which was useless to the Soviets. That’s how much in fear on Stalin they were and the degree to which they followed orders to replicate the ship!

Which makes it all the stranger the changes they were willing to make after much bureaucratic wrangling and signing off on to cover the butt.

In the end the story of the TU-4 is a testament to just how immensely fear Comrade Stalin was and the lunacy that results from such fear.

But the TU-4 is not an exact copy like you dismiss it as. It is so much more then that.

Air & Space magazine did an incredible story chronicling the massive effort to dupe the Suprefortress and it’s a great read for anyone interested in such things.

USSR was strong on rocket science during the ’30s, unfortunately Comrade Stalin actually saw fit to purge many of those great minds along with so many other millions. Toward the end of WWII the Soviets made extensive efforts to engage in “intellectual reparations” just as the U.S. did. Specialized teams scoured Germany looking for all kinds of German technology and scientists to recruit. But when it came to Germany’s rocket scientists they wisely fled to the western zone to be recruited by the United States. Russia’s loss… maybe if Comrade Stalin hadn’t been such a murderous thug they would the USSR had better luck with that, although they capture some technology and German scientists, mainly focused on the A-4 rocket system.

And BTW Russia’s attempt to build a moon rocket was a complete disaster as i recall. The rocket itself may as well have been a bomb.

Also Segei Korolev himself spent time in Germany as part of that effort, and as i recall his mother was only Russian by fact it was imperial Russia at the time. She and Korolev where from Ukraine. His father was a migrant Russian.

“When it comes to space technology, the Russians were masters whereas Americans had Germans put them on the moon.”

If you say so. History says those Russian masters failed miserably when they tried to put a man on the moon, whereas the United States triumphed. Which highlights the differences between the two nations. The Unites States is a nation of immigrants, there is no shame in that. We take pride in it. And our openness to welcoming great minds from abroad into the fold is one of our strongest assets and set the stage for the Unites States kicking ass during the 20th century.

I don’t recall too many people with brilliant minds being eager immigrate to the USSR during 20th century, and for good reasons. Russia’s loss…

True that was the way the came to America, but that status didn’t last long. Wernher Von Braun became a naturalized citizen of the United States on April 15 1955. As early as 1947 he was given permission to return to Germany to marry a cousin he purposed to and returned to America that same year bringing his father and mother with him as well. Being a high high value prisoner of war was simply the method by which he immigrated to the United States. So yes, he was an first generation American immigrant.

lol, Russians are just hurt that they failed so miserably at going to the moon! Get over it. It was such an embarrassing defeat to the Soviet government that they scrapped the whole moon program and pretended like they never wanted to go.

True about that, although at least we flew our space shuttles more then once, unmanned. Speaking of the Russian shuttle…

“The program was designed to boost national pride, carry out research, and meet technological objectives similar to those of the U.S. shuttle program, including resupply of the Mir space station, which was launched in 1986 and remained in service until 2001. When Mir was finally visited by a space shuttle, the visitor was a U.S. shuttle, not Buran.

The Buran SO, a docking module that was to be used for rendezvous with the Mir space station, was refitted for use with the U.S. Space Shuttles during the Shuttle-Mir missions.”

the same folks who concealed the fact that Yuri Gagarin bailed out at 23,000 feet and parachuted back to Earth because Vostok 1 wasn’t capable of soft landing a cosmonaut without life threatening injuries. That’s fine except for the fact the Soviets blatantly lied about it get the flight certified as an FIA Record. Doesn’t change the fact he was the first man in space but it does sully the moment by his being forced to lie about it to the world for stupid propaganda purposes. It’s the same reason they later airbrushed cosmonauts who didn’t live up to expectations out of group photographs. They couldn’t admit a cosmonaut was anything less then perfect, and when some proved to be they were oficially erased from history.

“The FAI rules in 1961 required that a pilot must land with the spacecraft to be considered an official spaceflight for the FAI record books. Although some contemporary Soviet sources stated that Gagarin had parachuted separately to the ground,[39] the Soviet Union officially insisted that he had landed with the Vostok; the government forced the cosmonaut to lie in press conferences, and the FAI certified the flight. The Soviet Union did not admit until 1971 that Gagarin had ejected and landed separately from the Vostok descent module.”

Besides ayaa it was less then a month later that Alan Shepard rocketed into space and safely returned to Earth. It’s not like we Americans just gave up after a bunch of spectacular failures, you know, like the Russians did with their moon program.

I don’t need to ask myself why i do it. It’s amusing to me that Russians here red flag even the most truthful comments if it hurts their national pride in the slightest. Given that silliness why not push their buttons and have some fun with it? It’s not like i’m mad about it, the whole thing is funny to me. I don’t waste my time engaging in stupid stuff that makes me mad for no good reason.

And BTW geoff, the comments of yours that i’ve ignored are for the most part about some high minded ideals or principles and debating them over the internet accomplishes nothing. I’m not going to change your opinion on them and neither are you mine. That’s probably why you get upset trying to debate such things with people on the internet. Opinions are like butt holes everyone has one. Just stick with your ideals and live them. That’ll accomplish far more then debating your ideals on the internet. You win very few over that way. you end up preaching to the already converted or hopeless arguing with people who are never going to see it your way. Why bother? You’ll just get yourself upset for no good reason. I’d rather avoid that trap. Better things to do with my time.

And no i haven’t gotten around to doing that photo project you asked about, but i will. That’s the sort of thing i’d rather spend some time on then getting into serious arguments on the ‘net.

the above is not important to me at all, just some tit for tat button pushing for fun. Literally (reply up/down) and figuratively.