I liked issue #6 because of the interactions and the script. I thought the art style was brave and fitting, though not my taste. I didn't dislike it because Magneto was in it. I don't hate Magneto and despite Rogues poor decision to meet with him (that was a mistake), it didn't ruin the issue for me or the next. From I can tell just because WE hate what Carey did (I disliked the Magneto thing more than anyone), Rogue still sees Magneto as a friend. And she spoke to him, as a friend, as undeserving as he is.

This isn't the issue at all. It is the continued disrespect of Gambit that is the issue. Rogneto happened. Ok fine. So when is Rogue going to flat out apologize to Gambit for it? When is Gambit going to call Rogue out directly for it? KT completely ignored any sort of real reaction about it by Gambit in the mini, hand waved it away with a blanket apology but yet brings it back here by having Rogue contact Mags behind Gambit's back and then share intimate details. So I don't have a problem with addressing Rogneto. I have a problem with KT addressing by showing more respect to Mags' feelings than Rogue has even shown Gambit on this matter. She can go out of her way to apologize to Mags but has yet to directly admit how he treated Gambit during that whole affair was wrong.

I didn't dislike #7 because of Mojo or because Rogue was in it. LOL c'mon, it's a duo book. Theres a 50/50 chance from jump that the story/panel/book will be about her. I didn't dislike it because Longshot was in it while the book takes place in Mojoworld. Last I checked Longshot had more connections here than just Rogue. He is a long time X-Man. I liked the Moonlighting theme and the 4th wall breaking. I do wish that the Guild Arc came before this, but i think this was a set up to tie up some plot before heading into that.

Again this misses the point. The Mini was a duo book and Rogue got the bulk of the focus. This book is a duo book and Rogue is getting the bulk of the focus. How long are we going to make excuses. KT is 12 issues into her Romy story and 70-80% of it is Rogue from a development standpoint with Gambit jumping around like a trained monkey.

It is like Gambit fans are so used to be abused we will take whatever scraps Marvel throws at us. At some point enough is enough. I am tired of this same old explanations about how it makes sense for Rogue to get the focus as if we needed another story about her stupid ass powers. It would be one thing if this was new development but all KT is doing is exploring the same story with Rogue's powers that has been told before.

Not the repetitiveness of her storyline with Romy captured in almost the same way again and Gambit dying right after Rogue was supposedly killed. For someone that was so critical of Asmus, I am shocked at how completely unoriginal her story is. Just feels like a writer going through the motions for a paycheck.

Hmmm, I like it but I would prefer Candra and original Mr. Sinister. Cough... We could rule the galaxy like father and son... Cough

Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.

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Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.

I vaguely remember Gambit interacting with Miss Sinister in the X-23 ongoing from a couple years ago. I can't remember the storyline off the top of my head but it's happened. I would love to see Remy interact with either version of Sinister but finding out he's Sinister's son would probably be the biggest moment in his history.

This isn't the issue at all. It is the continued disrespect of Gambit that is the issue. Rogneto happened. Ok fine. So when is Rogue going to flat out apologize to Gambit for it? When is Gambit going to call Rogue out directly for it? KT completely ignored any sort of real reaction about it by Gambit in the mini, hand waved it away with a blanket apology but yet brings it back here by having Rogue contact Mags behind Gambit's back and then share intimate details. So I don't have a problem with addressing Rogneto. I have a problem with KT addressing by showing more respect to Mags' feelings than Rogue has even shown Gambit on this matter. She can go out of her way to apologize to Mags but has yet to directly admit how he treated Gambit during that whole affair was wrong.

Again this misses the point. The Mini was a duo book and Rogue got the bulk of the focus. This book is a duo book and Rogue is getting the bulk of the focus. How long are we going to make excuses. KT is 12 issues into her Romy story and 70-80% of it is Rogue from a development standpoint with Gambit jumping around like a trained monkey.

It is like Gambit fans are so used to be abused we will take whatever scraps Marvel throws at us. At some point enough is enough. I am tired of this same old explanations about how it makes sense for Rogue to get the focus as if we needed another story about her stupid ass powers. It would be one thing if this was new development but all KT is doing is exploring the same story with Rogue's powers that has been told before.

Not the repetitiveness of her storyline with Romy captured in almost the same way again and Gambit dying right after Rogue was supposedly killed. For someone that was so critical of Asmus, I am shocked at how completely unoriginal her story is. Just feels like a writer going through the motions for a paycheck.

Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol

I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...

It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!

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Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

I vaguely remember Gambit interacting with Miss Sinister in the X-23 ongoing from a couple years ago. I can't remember the storyline off the top of my head but it's happened. I would love to see Remy interact with either version of Sinister but finding out he's Sinister's son would probably be the biggest moment in his history.

I didnt read X23. I know he "fought" the real Mr Sinister, I wasnt aware he interacted with Miss as well?

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Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol

You said just because We hated Magneto so you aren't merely saying what you liked or disliked, you are implying that others only beef with Mags appearance is based on our disliking Rogneto. I am telling you that is not the case. The problem is KT's writing. Has nothing to do with Legacy. It has to do with the 12 issues she wrote. She wrote Rogue going out of her way to apologize to Magneto directly and explicitly explaining what she was apologizing for. She then wrote Rogue not having the decency to tackle Mags head on and apologize directly and explicitly for her actions all while writing Gambit lacking the balls to call Rogue out for it. That is the problem in KT's writing. A writer that actually cared about the character would have him stand up for himself eventually. KT will never have Gambit do that in any meaningful way and that is why we have issues with her writing. She pretty much admitted as much by having him say an apology is not necessary. You can chalk that up to self loathing but as he is a fictional character, KT had the power to write a different outcome for him but she chose keep him impotent in the face of Rogue.

I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...

It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!

I like Gambit. I don't like characters or writers that s*** on him and too many writers s*** on Gambit whenever he is around Rogue. It's not like I am going out and supporting any of the writers that did that crap to Gambit so not sure why I should support KT making Gambit look like a b***h by never confronting Rogue directly about Mags all while having Rogue fall all over herself to apologize to Mags. The contrast here is striking in that it appears Mags is deserving of a full explanation and apology while Gambit is not. Gambit is forever the chump that just goes along with whatever Rogue decides.

Yeah, but Sinister doesn't care about ruling. Nice call back to Star Wars though lol. Even if Gambit is his son it's most likely the result of an experiment or a means to an end of some sort. In AoA Sinister made Nate to get rid of Apocalypse. Gambit may have been the same thing but through different means.

I knew that you would cath call back

I think we had a fan video about Gambit origin a year ago. We also was afraid that some of writers will see it and make as canon. More or less I think it is the way it supposed to be.

I didnt read X23. I know he "fought" the real Mr Sinister, I wasnt aware he interacted with Miss as well?

I googled Miss Sinister's appearance in the X-23 ongoing. Apparently Miss Sinister was an actual woman who Mister Sinister injected his DNA into secretly just in case something happened to his main actual body. So Miss Sinister isn't a usual created clone but an actual person who was one of Sinister's test subjects who had her own sort of demented villain personality. What happened is that Sinister's DNA slowly started to form a presence in her mind with the goal of Sinister eventually self-resurrecting if he's able to take hold of her mind. Sinister nearly gets control of her mind and manifests for a little bit (her body literally morphs to Sinister's male body for a sec), but Miss Sinister is able to regain control of her mind/body. Miss Sinister does have a lot of the same powers of Sinister because of his DNA and his DNA basically turned her into a genetically female version of him . Sinister then takes possession of one his other test subjects, a girl who Gambit and X-23 were trying to help. They help the girl get free of Sinister but he secretly survives by taking possession of a clone of the girl and gets his main body back.

Point? Issue? I'm not debating anything, man. I'm talking about what I liked and disliked about this and the last issue. I'm not trying to prove a point or convince you guys. I just wanna chat, about this, not something Rogue did and apologized for. I mean, no it she didn't grovel at his feet and beg forgiveness, but she addressed it. Its a comic book. At some point we need to stop treating characters as if they have free will. We're referencing stories that took place a long time ago, written by one or two different people who obviously had agendas. I don't find rehashing Legacy again interesting or fun. I hated that @##$! lol

I mean, if we as Gambit fans can just hand wave his forced buffoonery following X-Treme (blinding himself, lashing out, Foxx/Mystique etc), his convenient idiocy during Blood of Apocalypse, his unexplained duality in Messiah Complex, his lack of anything after that, all of Racky Lebeau, his very unsuave freak out after kissing Frenzy (wtf was that!?), Captain 1-Punch (sob!), getting busted by Wolverine mid-heist, wishing for naked death after unknowingly sleeping with his boss' wife, his humiliating strike-out with Polaris, getting shutdown offering back rubs wearing clown pants (mother$@$#%#), most of Deadpool V Gambit, him constantly losing fights to his now mother-in-law (2x), Fantomex getting the better of him in terms of confrontation and billing, and fumbling the most advanced non-Nimrod Sentinel into existence... why can we not get out of this very uninteresting and from I can tell from your post, very upsetting cycle of self deprecation? I mean, did I miss anything? If we can ignore all this and still love this guy...

It's a wonder we're still fans of comic books after at all that.... Crap, now I'm mad. You happy?! You brought me back into that dark place! This is what made me quit reading for almost ten-years, and I wasn't even around for half of this mess!

I think that a lot of people are still upset with Legacy or see it as an unavoidable blemish currently because it had a huge impact on Rogue and Gambit's relationship which is at the forefront of their ongoing. Mr & Mrs. X is literally a comic focused solely on their marriage (relationship). While yes you can label it as buffoonery and bad writing, it is still canon. And while Gambit has suffered from much of this crappy writing/buffoonery we know the reasons why he made many of his nimrod choices from the past. Whether it was Deathbit, his role in the Marauders, the Racky Lebeau stuff, and some of the more recent things. Sure you find his reasoning unsatisfactory but at least we know why. Had these moments been written better I would actually be fine with them and wouldn't hate those stories as much because it makes Gambit's character seem more human and multi-faceted instead of just a goody good spotless super hero like Clark Kent.

Many people still hold a grudge over Rogneto because we don't much about Rogue's reasoning for pursuing a relationship with Magneto and the little bit that has been written in the comics on this is very vague in explaining her reasons. Rogneto literally unfolded by having Rogue go to Magneto's room at night to sleep with him, she promised him only one night but then all of a sudden a few issues later they're in a full blown relationship and are shown in bed together post-coital before deciding to have more sex. We only have two instances where Rogue explains her reasoning for pursuing Magneto, yes she explicitly pursued this relationship (this is clear in Legacy). The first is in Legacy #248 where she recites the part of Gambit harbor speech where Remy says the reasons for and reasons against love don't matter anymore when you love somebody, to explain why she's about to make love to Magneto. That's all we got from Legacy because after that they were in a relationship. The second instance is in R&G #3 when she tells Remy she couldn't be with him when she had control of her powers because she had to try someone else first, that's all we got from that.

We never found out how Rogue was able to come to terms with Magneto's past, something she had a lot of trouble doing with Gambit. As Kelly Thompson has said herself in a podcast, we never found out how she was able to come to terms with things like Antarctica where she herself accused Magneto of mentally violating her on panel and how this caused her to leave Gambit to freeze/starve to death in Antarctica. Not to mention the other stuff Mags has done, like mass murder. You can infer from what we do have in the comics is that Rogue just loved Magneto that much that she just looked past those things without a care to address them when pursuing a relationship with Erik after not having interacted with him in years and even now she feels more comfortable discussing her relationship with Gambit to Magneto than with anybody else , this is a level of affection and sentimentality she has never shown towards Gambit.

This doesn't reflect well on Rogue when you factor in that in MMX where Gambit is seen as being more supportive and devoted than ever (this is a good thing in my opinion) but she still continues to put up walls towards and tries to run at the first instance hence why he has to remind her of the vows she made during their wedding in issue 5. Hell I'm under the impression that Rogue would've never even cared to try to fix her powers on her own had they not gone all bonkers. She would've been fine with the marriage to Remy despite all the constraints due to her powers and the collar.

I like Gambit. I don't like characters or writers that s*** on him and too many writers s*** on Gambit whenever he is around Rogue. It's not like I am going out and supporting any of the writers that did that crap to Gambit so not sure why I should support KT making Gambit look like a b***h by never confronting Rogue directly about Mags all while having Rogue fall all over herself to apologize to Mags. The contrast here is striking in that it appears Mags is deserving of a full explanation and apology while Gambit is not. Gambit is forever the chump that just goes along with whatever Rogue decides.

Yeah, I'm not asking anyone to "support" anything. I'm just here to talk about the book... I simply don't understand why we can't talk about this without wading into the crap-storm that Legacy turned into. I'm not saying any way that you currently feel is wrong. I'm just kinda over it all. Perhaps its because I review and analyze so much now, that I've learned to not be so attached to things. I'm reading in a vacuum, not judging "A" while taking "X" into account. Its not worth it to me. Retcons and reinterpretations happen all the time in books. It's how Gambit went from being called one of the best hand-to-hand fighters by Nick Fury, to getting 1-punch KOed by Mystique. I want to read books while thinking about X-Men Legacy as much as I like biting into a juicy Scotch Bonnet while eating stewpeas. That's not fun, though some people do like it... so to each their own.

« Last Edit: January 09, 2019, 06:01:38 PM by DonPriceTag »

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Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

I think that a lot of people are still upset with Legacy or see it as an unavoidable blemish currently because it had a huge impact on Rogue and Gambit's relationship which is at the forefront of their ongoing. Mr & Mrs. X is literally a comic focused solely on their marriage (relationship). While yes you can label it as buffoonery and bad writing, it is still canon. And while Gambit has suffered from much of this crappy writing/buffoonery we know the reasons why he made many of his nimrod choices from the past. Whether it was Deathbit, his role in the Marauders, the Racky Lebeau stuff, and some of the more recent things. Sure you find his reasoning unsatisfactory but at least we know why. Had these moments been written better I would actually be fine with them and wouldn't hate those stories as much because it makes Gambit's character seem more human and multi-faceted instead of just a goody good spotless super hero like Clark Kent.

Many people still hold a grudge over Rogneto because we don't much about Rogue's reasoning for pursuing a relationship with Magneto and the little bit that has been written in the comics on this is very vague in explaining her reasons. Rogneto literally unfolded by having Rogue go to Magneto's room at night to sleep with him, she promised him only one night but then all of a sudden a few issues later they're in a full blown relationship and are shown in bed together post-coital before deciding to have more sex. We only have two instances where Rogue explains her reasoning for pursuing Magneto, yes she explicitly pursued this relationship (this is clear in Legacy). The first is in Legacy #248 where she recites the part of Gambit harbor speech where Remy says the reasons for and reasons against love don't matter anymore when you love somebody, to explain why she's about to make love to Magneto. That's all we got from Legacy because after that they were in a relationship. The second instance is in R&G #3 when she tells Remy she couldn't be with him when she had control of her powers because she had to try someone else first, that's all we got from that.

We never found out how Rogue was able to come to terms with Magneto's past, something she had a lot of trouble doing with Gambit. As Kelly Thompson has said herself in a podcast, we never found out how she was able to come to terms with things like Antarctica where she herself accused Magneto of mentally violating her on panel and how this caused her to leave Gambit to freeze/starve to death in Antarctica. Not to mention the other stuff Mags has done, like mass murder. You can infer from what we do have in the comics is that Rogue just loved Magneto that much that she just looked past those things without a care to address them when pursuing a relationship with Erik after not having interacted with him in years and even now she feels more comfortable discussing her relationship with Gambit to Magneto than with anybody else , this is a level of affection and sentimentality she has never shown towards Gambit.

This doesn't reflect well on Rogue when you factor in that in MMX where Gambit is seen as being more supportive and devoted than ever (this is a good thing in my opinion) but she still continues to put up walls towards and tries to run at the first instance hence why he has to remind her of the vows she made during their wedding in issue 5. Hell I'm under the impression that Rogue would've never even cared to try to fix her powers on her own had they not gone all bonkers. She would've been fine with the marriage to Remy despite all the constraints due to her powers and the collar.

The Legacy story was Mike Carey finding out Marvel wasn't renewing his contract for the amount he wanted or possibly at all. He accelerated his story following the end of AoX. We didn't get to see Rogue's "reasons" because according to him it was worked out "off panel". To be honest, my concern wasn't so much with Rogue, Magneto, or Gambit after the initial shock of discovering their relationship wore off (this event made me come back to reading comics BTW. I had quite after Gambit blinded himself). My disgust was with the rest of the X-Men. Like they did with being OK that Gambit was left to die years earlier, apparently, no one had a single concern about Rogue's choice in romantic partnering. Probably none of their business, but people like Storm and Wolverine who don't much care about hurt feelings, had nothing to say? Not a word? A comment? Nothing? I found it crazy that the same person that wrote the "harbor speech" everyone loves quoting, is the same person that did the very thing the same people (including me) renounced. It was more proof to me that the whole thing was just a product of Carey's wet dream that he wanted fulfilled before walking out the door.

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Rogue being flung vagina-first at the first male that pops up on her radar isn't how I'd define "romance," but Marvel must be using a different dictionary than me.- NicoPony

Yeah, I'm not asking anyone to "support" anything. I'm just here to talk about the book... I simply don't understand why we can't talk about this without wading into the crap-storm that Legacy turned into. I'm not saying any way that you currently feel is wrong. I'm just kinda over it all. Perhaps its because I review and analyze so much now, that I've learned to not be so attached to things. I'm reading in a vacuum, not judging "A" while taking "X" into account. Its not worth it to me. Retcons and reinterpretations happen all the time in books. It's how Gambit went from being called one of the best hand-to-hand fighters by Nick Fury, to getting 1-punch KOed by Mystique. I want to read books while thinking about X-Men Legacy as much as I like biting into a juicy Scotch Bonnet while eating stewpeas. That's not fun, though some people do like it... so to each their own.

Well because Mags showed up in the book because of Legacy. KT is the one who put Mags in the book to respect continutiy so we are discussing the book. Should we ignore that Mags showed up and for many of us the respect showed to him at the expense of Gambit was problematic?

Not my fault KT wrote a crap story that feaured Mags because of Legacy.