You absolutely are. You're characterising the girl in a way that allows you to dismiss the hard evidence that's available in the video. I mean to say that she is thirsty because she tagged Ariana Grande in a tweet is genuinely laughable. Again though, the tweets that have been attributed to her from 5 years ago are awful, but even they don't change the actual content of the video, which was of them hurling abuse at women. On the evidence available, which you seem to want to cling to with regards to the Phillips thing, they were being smug, boorish pricks. And yet your reply is that, well, who knows what happened before the camera came out, they might have provoked it (which is classic victim-blaming when it comes to harassment btw). I don't know how you don't see the self-contradiction there.

And now you're also mis-representing me, GG. Don't make me rescind my honorable mention for you in the POTY thread! If you'll recall, I made no such judgement that they were racist. I don't have a position on that confrontation with Phillips. I know you've seen the whole video, and apparently in it they were making hand-chop signals, taunting about indigenous land rights and colonization, and other common pejoratives when it comes to American Indians. Did you see that? If so, I'd say that's a pretty conlusive answer to you question, but as I said, I'm not the one making that judgement as I havent seen it.

I'm not at all. You are just suggesting so because you don't like the answer. I don't give a shit about the kids. I don't care about left or right politics. But I do care about facts and what I view as right and wrong. The attack on the kids was wrong. Even if he called the ingenious man 20 racial slurs, the backlash was over the top - educate not humiliate.

"hard evidence" - that's has less evidence than the original footage that painted Sandman as a racist. It's 8 secs...after an interaction. That's the point. We have zero knowledge of what she said before or what the context even is. The thirsty comment was in response to you saying "why would she post it". Why? Just like Phillips lied. Get news time and potentially $$$ to sell the story. Would have thought that was easy enough to understand. Social media is a shit show of people begging for the one's above to 'like' or 'retweet' and she has proof of doing that so it justifies my point of her wanting a few like and follows.

They are separate incidents. One doesn't justify the other. The point is the racism between the boys and Phillips - not some distance shot people are clinging to as justification for the backlash. It's purely desperation. If a few video was released and those girls said nothing to antagonise etc. and the boys were rude etc. then their parents can say "hey, that was wrong. No more of that sort of stuff". Don't incident over. 90% of the population would be shot down if we start thinking back to how we reacted to the opposite sex when we were 16. I pinched a girl on the bum at a high school social when I was 16. She told me off, said it wasn't appreciated. Lesson learned never did it again. Interactions like that happen all the time but we are in for some trouble if we think hollering at the opposite sex deserves intense scrutiny and doxxing by adults.

Then I apologise for dragging you into that. That wasn't my intention. I've lost track at who I'm returning fire in here lol. Yes, I've seen it all. Boys were dancing assuming they were joining in etc. Phillips walked over to Sandman. Sandman stood still. His friends were giving the 'oooohhhhh what are you going to do Sandman?' which is part of the reason why the smirk started. Another indigenous man was getting vocal about them owning the land and it turned into a "you're European go home etc." and Sandman could tell it was getting out of hand so turned to his friend to shut it down...all over. As Sandman said in hindsight he should have just stepped aside but Phillips made no attempt to go around. We also know Phillips has done this in 2015 and lied about serving in Vietnam so you can't tell me he didn't want his 5 mins of fame.

But yeah end of discussion on this topic for me. I'm sick of it. I just hate seeing kids doxxed and receive death threats/trial by media. It's not on. If he called Phillips names send him to bloody Dr. Phil...not try and get scholarships removed, parents fired, death threats and all that. I'd say we are better than that but clearly we aren't.

Cancelled

I'm not at all. You are just suggesting so because you don't like the answer. I don't give a shit about the kids. I don't care about left or right politics. But I do care about facts and what I view as right and wrong. The attack on the kids was wrong. Even if he called the ingenious man 20 racial slurs, the backlash was over the top - educate not humiliate.

"hard evidence" - that's has less evidence than the original footage that painted Sandman as a racist. It's 8 secs...after an interaction. That's the point. We have zero knowledge of what she said before or what the context even is. The thirsty comment was in response to you saying "why would she post it". Why? Just like Phillips lied. Get news time and potentially $$$ to sell the story. Would have thought that was easy enough to understand. Social media is a shit show of people begging for the one's above to 'like' or 'retweet' and she has proof of doing that so it justifies my point of her wanting a few like and follows.

They are separate incidents. One doesn't justify the other. The point is the racism between the boys and Phillips - not some distance shot people are clinging to as justification for the backlash. It's purely desperation. If a few video was released and those girls said nothing to antagonise etc. and the boys were rude etc. then their parents can say "hey, that was wrong. No more of that sort of stuff". Don't incident over. 90% of the population would be shot down if we start thinking back to how we reacted to the opposite sex when we were 16. I pinched a girl on the bum at a high school social when I was 16. She told me off, said it wasn't appreciated. Lesson learned never did it again. Interactions like that happen all the time but we are in for some trouble if we think hollering at the opposite sex deserves intense scrutiny and doxxing by adults.

Then I apologise for dragging you into that. That wasn't my intention. I've lost track at who I'm returning fire in here lol. Yes, I've seen it all. Boys were dancing assuming they were joining in etc. Phillips walked over to Sandman. Sandman stood still. His friends were giving the 'oooohhhhh what are you going to do Sandman?' which is part of the reason why the smirk started. Another indigenous man was getting vocal about them owning the land and it turned into a "you're European go home etc." and Sandman could tell it was getting out of hand so turned to his friend to shut it down...all over. As Sandman said in hindsight he should have just stepped aside but Phillips made no attempt to go around. We also know Phillips has done this in 2015 and lied about serving in Vietnam so you can't tell me he didn't want his 5 mins of fame.

But yeah end of discussion on this topic for me. I'm sick of it. I just hate seeing kids doxxed and receive death threats/trial by media. It's not on. If he called Phillips names send him to bloody Dr. Phil...not try and get scholarships removed, parents fired, death threats and all that. I'd say we are better than that but clearly we aren't.

TBfF I don't think anyone said they deserved to be doxxed, or that any of that was appropriate, but yeah, agreed about your last para. I mean, it's a pretty pointless discussion anyway about something minor that will probably be forgotten about in 6 months. We're probably all wasting far too much energy on it. Let's just get back to frothing about how big Ben McKay is.

Norm Smith Medallist

Need a quota do we? Makes zero to little difference in terms of tolerance, education is more important.

Not particularly, but in this case, blackface was not racially motivated and via that video, the blackout stuff has been stopped for years. Most black neighbourhoods live in perpetual victimhood, it is part of the reason why 90% of the African-American vote goes to the Democratic, borderline indoctrination via social-welfare. I take stock of African-American's who can think for themselves and are not professional victims. White face, if you really want to get into it has historical linkages to social-darwinist racial integration and terms like 'half-cast'. This article explains it: https://metro.co.uk/2017/06/13/whiteface-is-a-thing-too-lets-talk-about-it-6704665/

What hand is that, a bunch of secret racists, really? Why is this video of blackface a problem now, but not a few years ago when it happened, very interesting. Fitting into a neat little narrative.

That is a terrible statement mate. Perpetual victimhood? Hey yeah, you were enslaved for hundreds of years but we freed you, we’ll sort of, you’re not allowed to vote, share anything white people use, and don’t even think about sending your kids to our schools, and you’re not allowed to live where we live, apart from that you’re free. None of us here would have a clue what it’s like growing up on the block with that as part of our heritage. What next? Are your going to tell me that indigenous people of Australia are living in a state of perpetual vicimhood and you take stock of indigenous people of Australia that can think for themselves?

Klay Thompson's Rehab

Things can be one or the other and still be pretty ******* racist, to be fair.

Blackface is a perfect example of why the intent on an individual level might not be racist, and to be honest, I like to think that most of the time it's not, but the historical context makes it inherently a racist symbol.

Canadia Roo

Correct. That's only from the 19 minute footage. There has been longer and different angles shown. Including another ingidenous member shouting "go back to europe where you came from" at a kid. Sandman turns and tells his friend to cut it out (with a hand to the neck gesture) - He actively tried to stop tensions from escalating which should be commended except it isn't.

Proof Phillips walks to sandman:

As Sandman stated: "Phillips had every right to come over and stand there, just like I had every right to stand and hold my ground too"

He said the smile or "smirk" was his way of saying "this is all you're going to get from me if you're trying to provoke any other reaction nothing is coming"

Phillips also tried to lie about something similar in 2015 when he said he was said he approached some kids and they told him to go back to the reservation. Except when the cops came no one was even there and the kids he claimed racially abused him where never even there to begin with.

Again, it’s still my opinion that the kid was confronting, not defusing. He willfully obstructed Phillips's (peaceful) path and refused to move. He faced him head on and stared at him. This is not how you defuse things, it's how you attempt to escalate them. It's a dare. It's what a bully does.

As for telling his cohort to stand down, I read it as "Stay out of my spotlight".

Canadia Roo

White privilege, really, we are going down this rabbit hole again. You want to know the real issue with all this, it isn’t Phillips, it isn’t the moronic African Americans shouting slurs or even the kids, it was the blatant lying by the media on the topic in order to whip up ‘white male privilege’ like hysteria. What made this boy an easy target I wonder and got disgusting grubs sending death threats to him and his family? That smirking lad was White, Christian, male and a Trump supporter, everything that the modern left hates and the media knows it as both sides have fed off it. You accuse Trump of emboldening hate, then what do you call CNN effectively calling for this kid’s head? So much for the tolerant left, absolute hypocrites.

Hall of Famer

On a side tangent, I'll be interested to get poster's thoughts on whether the Australia Day date should be changed and if so, to when? This debate comes around every year around this time, so I'll be interested to get people's thoughts.

Brownlow Medallist

On a side tangent, I'll be interested to get poster's thoughts on whether the Australia Day date should be changed and if so, to when? This debate comes around every year around this time, so I'll be interested to get people's thoughts.

Norm Smith Medallist

On a side tangent, I'll be interested to get poster's thoughts on whether the Australia Day date should be changed and if so, to when? This debate comes around every year around this time, so I'll be interested to get people's thoughts.

Australia Day, Jan 26 means nothing to me, in fact when I was younger it wasn't really celebrated. It seems to be hijacked by beer drinking yobbos who love having a day off so they can have a BBQ and wear a flag as a cape.

Norm Smith Medallist

On a side tangent, I'll be interested to get poster's thoughts on whether the Australia Day date should be changed and if so, to when? This debate comes around every year around this time, so I'll be interested to get people's thoughts.

Absolutely I think it should be changed. It’s a day that celebrates when some people from Europe ‘found’ Australia and thought that meant they owned it. It’s a slap in the face of the first people of this nation to celebrate it.

Norm Smith Medallist

I don’t think Australia Day was that important to your average Aussie till indigenous people pointed out there their issues with it. Once that happened a certain type of Aussies decided that it was an extremely important day that cannot be changed.

Hall of Famer

TBH, I view the day for celebrating the achievements of Australians, but also a day to remember that a lot more needs to be done to help undo past colonial ills. In saying that, I am not entirely opposed to changing the day, but only if it is a day of historical significance that Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals can take pride in as now unified Australians. The only issue in that regard is there are really few suitable historical dates that would placate both sides on this issue.

If there was an alternative day:
May 27 may be the only other date which would work if Australia day was to be changed due to it being the Aboriginal referendum date in 1967. The problem with the May 27 date, however, is that the Mitchell massacre of Aboriginals happened on May 27. Most other dates are either too artificial with little meaning or clashes with other public holidays.

At least with January 26, we can reflect on the positive achievements of Australian settlers and Aboriginals as well as think about why the Aboriginal community still needs help due to the actions of settlers. It’s a national day of celebration and remembrance.

Norm Smith Medallist

TBH, I view the day for celebrating the achievements of Australians, but also a day to remember that a lot more needs to be done to help undo past colonial ills. In saying that, I am not entirely opposed to changing the day, but only if it is a day of historical significance that Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals can take pride in as now unified Australians. The only issue in that regard is there are really few suitable historical dates that would placate both sides on this issue.

If there was an alternative day:
May 27 may be the only other date which would work if Australia day was to be changed due to it being the Aboriginal referendum date in 1967. The problem with the May 27 date, however, is that the Mitchell massacre of Aboriginals happened on May 27. Most other dates are either too artificial with little meaning or clashes with other public holidays.

Norm Smith Medallist

TBH, I view the day for celebrating the achievements of Australians, but also a day to remember that a lot more needs to be done to help undo past colonial ills. In saying that, I am not entirely opposed to changing the day, but only if it is a day of historical significance that Aboriginals and non-Aboriginals can take pride in as now unified Australians. The only issue in that regard is there are really few suitable historical dates that would placate both sides on this issue.

If there was an alternative day:
May 27 may be the only other date which would work if Australia day was to be changed due to it being the Aboriginal referendum date in 1967. The problem with the May 27 date, however, is that the Mitchell massacre of Aboriginals happened on May 27. Most other dates are either too artificial with little meaning or clashes with other public holidays.

At least with January 26, we can reflect on the positive achievements of Australian settlers and Aboriginals as well as think about why the Aboriginal community still needs help due to the actions of settlers. It’s a national day of celebration and remembrance.