September 18, 2008

Or was he born in some foreign country, thus (perhaps) disqualifying him from becoming President?

Of course he was born in Hawaii.

Have you ever looked at where Hawaii is on a globe? It's farther from foreign countries than even the American mainland. The idea that his heavily pregnant mother (flying is not at all fun for pregnant women) would get on an early 707 and fly at great expense to some foreign country is ridiculous -- especially the popular theory that he was born in Kenya. Do you know how many different flights she would have had to take to get to Kenya in 1961? Honolulu to California, California to the East Cost, the East Coast (refueling at Gandar Bay) to London, London to maybe Cairo, Cairo to Nairobi. How much would that have cost? And then you would be stuck having your baby in Africa rather than in a modern American hospital in Honolulu.

Or you could go the other way around the world -- it's about the same distance either way. Kenya and Hawaii are more or less on the opposite sides of the globe, almost as far apart as two places can be.

Haha! Now I'm imagining the Obama conspiracy theorist version of those sequences in the Indiana Jones movies where the little red dot cruises its way across the globe, going over now-defunct territories like British Honduras, Palestine, and Persia.

Hey, my mom flew me out of Alaska on a Northwest Orient prop-powered Stratocruiser to be born on the East Coast, where the hospitals at least had telephones. A two-day trip, no less. This was about five years before baby Barack, so maybe statehood was an issue in my case.

I think Steve's obsession with "affordable family formation" is leading to Freudian typos such as "the East Cost". (It does hit the spot, however.)

Oh, and one thing barely mentioned this election season is the weird way we're celebrating the upcoming quinquagenaries of statehood, with both an Alaskan and a Hawaiian on the ballot. One of them is sure to be sworn in in January.

So there's a theme for 2009 cocktail parties-- 49/50. Parkas and bikinis, leis and forget-me-nots, poi and salmon roe...

I doubt Obama was born outside of the U.S./Hawaii but I'm sure the MSM is helicoptering in their best gumshoe reporters to various locales to investigate this fully...yeah right.

I'll tell you what, if the NY Times, CNN, Washington Post, etc. were handed absolute proof that Obama was born in Kenya...they would likely sit on it or destroy the evidence. Think about that - the story of the century, a document disqualifying the Democratic candidate for President a month before the election, and the MSM would bury it. Why? They feel their main mission is to act in the public interest. That doesn't mean, to them, "all the news that's fit to print" and "who what when where why" and all that good stuff; no, it means promoting the leftist/liberal project. Obama losing is contrary to that mission.

Would be silly to suggest his religion is listed as "Muslim" on his birth certificate?

well, it would be more crazy or stupid than silly. This country doesn't treat religion as a legal status. Obama was legally as Muslim in Indonesia because religion is a legal status there.

Hawaii at the time did list religion of the child. So yeah, there is something for Obama to hide.http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_3.jpgno, Hawaiian birth certificates did not show religion, and it would be irrelevant if they had.

Anyone who has looked into it knows that Obama was a Muslim in elementary school, but almost no one cares. The guy was 7. Now you want to blame him for his status at birth?

I thought the theories were that he was born in Canada (somewhere in the Vancouver area) or that the parent's weren't legally married (ever, according to some conspiracy theorists).

Even if he was born outside the US to a single mom who never did marry her baby daddy I don't think that disqualifies him but the secrecy is suspicious.

The thing is with secretive people, a lot (usually) most of the things they're secretive about are trivialities that no one would care about. The weird thing is such a secretive person running for the least secretive job in the world.

If he wins, I think the biggest problems will be management. My take on his personality is not that of any of the good bosses I've had, he's:

The possibility that a candidate for office belonged to a faith, either at birth or at some point in his childhood, which he clearly no longer professes, is about as irrelevant a matter imaginable. (E.g., Sarah Palin's infant baptism as a Catholic.)

The only exception that comes to mind is if the adherents of the (alleged) former religion are commanded by their scriptures to murder apostates. In that case, we may have a security problem.

There is a rumor going round that some people in the Democratic Party are concerned about Obama's real nationality being revealed as Indonesian or something. Some say his Hawaiian birth certificate was faked, that it was really his sister's. Anyway, I'm not aware of anyone looking into this diligently.

I'm in a real hurry today, and I don't have time to respond to all of the misinformation on this thread, but let me just make a few points.

1) We start with the assumption that Obama was born somewhere on Planet Earth in August of 1961 [which might not be a good assumption - at least the "August 1961" part - but let's go ahead and make the assumption anyway].

We know for certain that Stanley Ann Dunham had already returned to the state of Washington, as a single mother, at the very beginning of 1962:

...Susan Blake, a classmate and former city councilwoman from Mercer Island who long ago changed the infant Barack's messy diaper, said of her friend: "Hers was a mind in full tilt"...

So it's entirely possible that Stanley Ann Dunham had already returned to Washington by August of 1961, and that [as "michael farris" indicates], she might have crossed over the border into British Columbia to give birth to Obama [the thinking there being that - both for social & legal reasons - in that era, many Leftist American girls fled to Canada to give birth their mulatto children].

BTW, in 1961, US Law held that if a child was born overseas to one American parent and one foreign parent, then the American parent had to have lived in the USA for five years as an adult if the child were to receive birth citizenship. However, as Stanley Ann was only 18 when Barack was born, and if the birth was overseas, then Barack would not have qualified for birth citizenship.

[Apparently, though, Congress altered the law a few years ago, and gave "ex post facto" clemency to any children who had been subjected to the original requirement, so if Obama were born overseas, then you'd have to argue against the constitutionality of the ex-post-facto-ness of Congress's more recent legislation].

2) We know for a fact that the original "COLB" [Certificate of Live Birth], as released to the public, was a forgery; the best source for this is probably Pamela Geller's Atlas Shrugs blog:

4) We know for a fact that Obama was called "Barry Soetoro" in Thailand, and that he lied about it to the Illinois State Supreme Court:

BREAKING: "Obama" Soetoro lied to the Illinois State Supreme Courtfreerepublic.com

5) We know for a fact that Thailand forbade dual citizenship in the 1960's [they only began to recognize dual citizenship just a few years ago], so it's entirely plausible that in the late 1960's & early 1970's, Obama, as the child, "Barry Soetoro", was exclusively a Thai citizen, and NOT an American citizen.

From there, the conjecture becomes:

5A) Did Obama ever apply for and re-establish his American citizenship as an adult, and swear an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution [thereby explicitly renouncing the Thai citizenship which he held as a child]?

5B) Did Obama, as an adult [NOT as a child], in the early 1980's, travel to Pakistan on an exclusively Thai passport - i.e. was there a point in time, AS AN ADULT, when Obama considered himself to be a citizen of Thailand and NOT a citizen of the USA?

The best source for all of this used to be TexasDarlin's blog, but she seems to have taken it offline in an attempt to shield herself from the wrath of the Nut Roots; however, there is an overview of her work at Free Republic:

Obama Citizenship Controversy - Did Obama Travel to Pakistan on an Indonesian Passport? A Summary.freerepublic.com

[See especially the conjecture about just what it was that Obama's supporters were looking for when they broke into the State Department passport files.]

6) Finally, may I assume that everyone is familiar with Philip Berg's federal lawsuit, which is trying to force Obama to provide proof of his USA citizenship?

When was Obama in Thailand? That country and Indonesia really have little in common (though globally they're not so far apart).

I'm not really concerned about the details of his birth.

If I were forced to guess in order of probability, I'd say that it's pretty likely that Stanley never did marry Obama senior (in any legally recognisable way though there may have been some kind of proto-hippy non-commitment ceremony) and he may have been born (for some reason) in Canada.

But I don't see anybody wanting to overturn the legislation that would make him retro-actively a citizen since birth (if that's all that would make him a citizen) and I really don't care.

I'm not enthusiastic about him as president partly because of general personality issues I already mentioned and the fact that he makes all my 'sociopath!' alarm bells go off. I've been lucky enough to survive some too-close-for-comfort encounters with hardcore people-are-playthings-for-my-amusement sociopaths and he's reminded me of them from the moment I first saw him on videotape. Yes, I know all politicians are sociopathic to some extent but he's at 11 on my dial (yes I could be wrong, but better safe than sorry).

How sociopathic? Unlike Steve I don't think he gives a crap about being accepted by US blacks or has ever worried about being 'black enough' (except to win their votes). He worries about being 'Obama' enough and figuring out what other people's weaknesses are. Think a dozen Richard Hatches on special sociopathic supplements rolled into one and too smart to talk the camera.

Obama is thought to have been born on August 4, 1961. Assuming a full gestation of 280 days, Obama's father inseminated his mother on October 29, 1960. His mother was born on November 29, 1942. Therefore she was age 17 years 11months at the time of conception. Hawaii's age of consent is 16, prior to 2003 it was 14 years. While apparently legal in Hawaii, in many states their relationship would constitute staturory rape. This of course leaves aside the bigamous or adulterous nature of the relationship if you take into consideration Obama Sr's already-married status.

"the thinking there being that - both for social & legal reasons - in that era, many Leftist American girls fled to Canada to give birth their mulatto children."

Is there any evidence for this odd assertion? Canada's reputation as a place admired by American leftists dates back to the flight of Vietnam-era draft evaders and the (coincidentally around the same time) beginnings of the Trudeau era, both in the late 1960s. For most of Canada's history it was regarded as more conservative than the U.S., not less.

Washington state, for what it's worth, was one of the states (of which there were rather few west of the Mississippi) where interracial marriage was legal even before Loving. That doesn't mean it was necessarily socially accepted, but would it have been in British Columbia either? (I don't know if B.C., or any Canadian province for that matter, ever had laws against interracial marriage or relations. Does anyone know?)

When did Obama ever live in Thailand? Do you mean Indonesia? I only had time to skim your links, but they seem to all say Indonesia as well. That undermines your credibility. (Especially since you said "Thailand" and "Thai" not once but several times.)

You told the story half-assed--I think. I admit I glossed over this thread. This has gone way past a "rumor" or a "conspiracy." Phil Berg entered his suit in federal court in Pennesylvania, now a second time. Obama has until Sept. 24 to respond. I don't know what the repercussions are. There are a number of perfectly valid points as to why Obama does not fulfill the Constitution requirements of natural born citizenship. The first is Kenyan birth. His mother was visiting the Kenyan relations and at that time obviously pregnant women could not board planes, forcing her to give birth in Nairobi. Obama's paternal grandmother was apparently quoted about being present at his birth. Other than that, there are legal reasons why he became an Indonesian citizen when he & mom moved there and she married Lolo. He never took something called an "Oath of Allegiance" which he would have had to have done before the age of 21, if he wanted american citizenship. He mentions traveling to Pakistan at age 20 on an Indonesian passport, claiming Indonesian citizenship.

the Democratic Party are concerned about Obama's real nationality being revealed as Indonesian or something. Some say his Hawaiian birth certificate was faked, that it was really his sister's. Anyway, I'm not aware of anyone looking into this diligently."

Even the laziest research would reveal to you that "people" have indeed researched this subject very, very diligently. FYI: obamacrimes.com

And if these valid concerns are true, it should be worrying every citizen of the country, not just "democrats." The implications are catastrophic if MSM allows this coverage (and they may not for reasons we all know). It would mean that Obama willingly and knowingly entered the race for President of the United States without an essential, Constitutional qualification. This would make him guilty of fraud at the very least.

I mean, an entire post with many, many references to Obama being a Thai citizen instead of Indonesian? that's like Lithuania instead of Pakistan. It's just a ridiculous error to make repeatedly.

Aside from the one incredibly large repeated error, this was (shockingly) by far the most reasonable "Obama might not have been born in the US" post I've ever read.

Anyway, if you're an anti-Obama partisan, you might want to spend your time going after more productive avenues like pointing out that Obama blatantly lied repeatedly about never having have been a Muslim. (and yes, I don't care about the fact that he hasn't been a Muslim since he was pre-pubescent. I don't think it's relevant, but you could probably score a cheap shot with it, and his lies make it more than a cheap shot.)

A notable fact is that an Obama birth announcement, naming both his parents as "Mr. and Mrs. Barack Obama" and listing a local address, really did appear in the Honolulu Sunday Advertiser on August 13, 1961. That doesn't prove he was born in Hawaii (although some have suggested that these lists were derived from hospital records rather than voluntary submissions; I don't know if this is true), but if his mother really had abandoned Hawaii and moved to Washington/British Columbia by that time, who submitted it? Maybe his grandparents, but why would they give her a local address if they knew she no longer lived there?

Similarly, Obama's school application at age seven (one that contains the surname Soetero and the religion Muslim, so clearly not a forged pro-Obama document) lists his date and place of birth as Hawaii, August 1961. Again, not proof, but has the conspiracy to make him President gone back to his childhood? If his mother hated America and gave birth in B.C. for "social and legal reasons," why had she abandoned this hardline stance just a few years later, at a time when she wasn't even living in the U.S.?

"While apparently legal in Hawaii, in many states their relationship would constitute staturory rape."

They didn't have the relationship in 'many states' they had it n Hawaii. Your questioning the morals of the possible next president would get you jailed or beheaded in many countries but you live in the USA, right?

I flew to Africa in 1953, it took 4 days, the airline stopped overnight.I flew again in 1962. From Johannesburg, refueled at Luanda, Kano, Tripoli, that time it only took 28 hours. The one thing I find very suspicious is Gordon Brown's endorsement, an absolute no-no for a sitting prime minister. I was living in Kenya before independence, around the time his father was leaving to study and I can tell you something about the government of the day. Any black leaving to study was under intense scrutiny, the SIS looked very very closely at those and anyone associated with them. Brown has inherited those files.

I flew again in 1962. From Johannesburg, refueled at Luanda, Kano, Tripoli, that time it only took 28 hours.

Where was your final destination on that occasion? All those stops are within Africa. The distance between Nairobi and Honolulu is 10748 miles, and the distance between Johannesburg and Tripoli is 4203 miles, according to this website. So I'm curious what your destination was.

Obama was not registered until Aug 8th in Hawaii. This is more than enough time (4 days) to fly from Kenya to Hawaii. Even Sarah Obama admits that he was born in Kenya. Lets see the long form birth certificate Obama. Why can't you produce it? Because it never existed. I don't dislake Obama but have to question his validity.

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