Today Alaskacop and I went to the range. I had a new TR24 to sight in and test out. I wanted him to do my CQB drill with one of his pistols and rifles to see which was faster for him at 7 yards. We also shot a rifle qualification.

During sight in I was very happy with the accuracy I got with my Colt. I was able to get better groups than I was with my previous Aimpoint M4 and 3x magnifier. This is due in part to my stigmatism.

Once it was sighted in I fired 3 groups at 100 yards. I used some reloads I had made with Sierra 77 grain bullets and TAC powder and Remington Match Primers. The first group I fired was .75, the next one I fired was 1.60. I had Alaskacop fire a group as well and he managed 1.33. That is an average of 1.23 inches. Previously my average with this rifle was 1.96 with the Aimpoint. The TR24 was very bright and clear. I have tested the scope in a variety of lighting conditions from daylight to complete darkness and the reticle is always bright. The only way I was able to make it go black was to be in a dark room and look outside into a bright area. I am very happy with this scope.

Following sighting in the guns, Alaskacop and I shot a department rifle qualification. I managed 147 and he got 139. That is out of 150. 120 is needed to pass.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/1-18-10%20Range%20report/IMGP1821.jpg
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/1-18-10%20Range%20report/IMGP1823.jpg

Alaskapopo

01-19-2010, 03:08

He was shooting his MSAR STG556.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/Friends%20guns/JamesMSAR1.jpg
Of course I was shooting my Colt
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/AR%20style%20rifles/Colt3.jpg

Then I wanted Alaskacop to participate in my ongoing pistol vs. rifle at close range drill. I had him shoot his STG556 at 3 targets at 7 yards. The targets were spaced 3 yards apart. He started with his gun in low ready. I also had him do the drill with his Les Baer Thunder Ranch Special in 45 acp. I shot the drill with my Colt and with my Daniel Defense using my back up optic sight the Primary Arms micro dot gen 2.

(Did so bad the first day I tried the AR10 again. I had to slow down to get my hits)

AR10 12-1-09

Time

1. 3.95
2. 4.04
3. 3.42
4. 3.22
5. 3.33
6. 3.03

Average: 3.50

Hits
T1 10 A 2 C
T2 11 A 1 C
T3 8 A 4C

Total 29A 7 C

AK47's

Gun Saiga AK47 Reddot (Aimpoint ML2)

1. 2.91
2. 3.28
3. 2.71
4. 2.71
5. 2.67

Average time 2.86

HITS

T1 9A 1C
T2 10A
T3 9A 1C

Total hits: 28 A 2C

MAK 90 Krebs (Apature rear sight)

TIME:

1. 2.88
2. 2.87
3. 2.89
4. 2.08
5. 3.05
Average time 2.75

HITS

T1 9A 1C
T2 10A
T3 7A 3C

TOTAL hits 26A 4C

PISTOLS

GUN STI Edge in 40sw. My limited gun for USPSA. Caliber 40sw.

TIME
1. 2.88
2. 3.01
3. 3.10
4. 3.10
5. 2.70

Average time for all 5 strings is 2.95

HITS

T1 6 A 3C 1B
T2 7 A 2C 1D
T3 9A 1C

TOTAL 22 Aís 7 B&Cís 1 D hit

Glock 17

1. 3.38
2. 3.13
3. 3.37
4. 3.46
5. 3.15
Average 3.30

HITS

T1 9A 1C
T2 5A 3C 2D
T3 7A 1C 1D 1 Miss

Total 21A 5C 3D 1Miss

CONCLUSION.

I have come to some conclusions. For me at least the rifle is always faster and more accurate than a pistol except in the case of the AR10. I had to slow down to control the recoil with it. But at the .223 and 7.62x39 level of recoil the rifles were better. I affirmed that a muzzle brake does work. My Colt times with the Vortex were worse than all my other 5.56 guns and they all wear muzzle brakes. Even my AK times were better and they have muzzle brakes. I learned that Irons at 7 yards are faster or at least as fast as any of my optics. A red dot sight helps in low light but its not faster in normal conditions. I still recommend optics but I don't believe the hype that they always make you faster. It depends on the range I believe. I had similar results in an experiment I did a few years back testing irons and various optics on one rifle. The irons were a tad faster at 15 yards. They were slower for me at 25, 50 and 100. But for close quarters work I believe Irons give up nothing in the way of speed in normal lighting conditions. Kurt was right about Irons being fast up close. There I said it. Like most type A personalities I hate admitting when I am wrong.

I have not trained that hard with it yet. Yes I bet it will be more difficult than using a red dot in those positions. But it does have forgiving eye relief on 1x. With everything there is trade offs. For close range a Red dot sight is great. But they suck as the range extends. They also suck for target identification. They also suck for those of us with astigmatism.
Pat

RMTactical

01-20-2010, 00:21

Thanks for the report. :wavey:

Jitterbug

01-20-2010, 16:21

Alaska

Thanks for the time, money and effort, being an AR newbie, I really appreciate the info!

Kentak

01-23-2010, 23:14

What the hell's wrong with you? Never, ever pose an AR with laundry products.

:shame:

Just kidding. Thanks for the info.

snappydad

01-24-2010, 10:44

Good post Pat. Looks chilly!! Sorry if I missed it but does your TR24 have the triangle or German reticle?

Alaskapopo

01-24-2010, 14:14

Good post Pat. Looks chilly!! Sorry if I missed it but does your TR24 have the triangle or German reticle?