# [01:38] <Hixie> but i don't want to remove them without opera and webkit agreeing to remove support (or at least agreeing that the test shouldn't have them and that they might remove support), because then it just looks like i'm trying to make it easy for firefox to pass after having "tricked" webkit and opera into implementing something, or whatever

# [01:51] <roc> probably a lot, but can't you phrase it so it's clearly not an Apple position?

# [01:51] <Hixie> yeah i can say "i got an e-mail from roc, maciej, and (whoever)"

# [01:52] <othermaciej> I can certainly try, however, if there is any significant chance it would result in a C|Net story citing the remarks as "Apple says X", I would have to preflight it, or else people would get really upset at me

# [01:53] <roc> Hixie: what if you don't name names, but just say "representatives from Mozilla, Webkit and ..."?

# [01:53] <Hixie> roc: sure, i just assumed that would be considered more formal

# [01:54] <roc> if you say "Webkit" the trail doesn't lead back to Apple

# [01:54] <roc> unless an enterprising reporter crawls this channel, in which case maciej is already in trouble :-)

# [01:54] <Hixie> roc: i really don't mind either way, whatever is most convenient for you -- i just want to have some cover so i can honestly tell people it was a request from a plurality of browser vendors

# [02:02] <doublec> given the reddit thread and comment's on roc's weblog I suspect the change will result in a fair amount of publicity around the "acid 3 test changed so IE and Firefox can get 100" idea

# [03:36] <MikeSmith> I think it would be good for vlad to consider adding that as informative background to the Introduction section of the TypedArray spec

# [03:39] <Hixie> how should i detect if a file is an SRT file: by a whitelist of MIME types, by searching for --> on the second non-blank line, by looking for a magic string (which would work for WebSRT but would mean plain SRT files need a trivial modification to be used), some combination thereof, or by some other mechanism?

# [09:20] <annevk> I do think it would be nice if we had a signature for SRT

# [09:20] <annevk> But that would mean subtitle files cannot be exchanged in an interoperable way until players are updated, but given how fast WebM is adopted it might be easy to patch existing players...

# [14:57] <gsnedders> hsivonen: In the "In foreign content" insertion mode, under the "A start tag whose tag name is one: [Long list of HTML element]" step, it seems to reprocess the token in the same state and go into an infinite loop

# [14:57] <gsnedders> hsivonen: What did you do? Change to the secondary insertion mode?

# [21:33] <MikeSmith> e.g., see the statement, "Since most distributed Reading Systems utilize Web browsers to present content to end users, and many standalone Reading Systems utilize Web browser rendering technologies in their implementations, it is desirable to improve alignment with Web standards as implemented by modern browsers."

# [21:44] <Hixie> (and then took it back when fantasai didn't like it)

# [21:46] <MikeSmith> well, Murakami-san can argue with some vehemence, for sure. But his an implementor. Not a browser implementor but anyway an implementor of a fairly complex and powerful application

# [21:48] <TabAtkins> There's the IE approach, frex, where switching the writing mode to vertical just "rotates" everything, so that, for example, padding-top now adds padding to one of the horizontal sides.

# [21:49] <TabAtkins> But most people in the group think that's stupid.

# [21:54] <TabAtkins> Another possible solution is to introduce logical-direction equivalents of every physical-direction property, so you can do padding-before, frex, and have it mean padding-top in horizontal writing and padding-left or whatever in vertical writing.

# [21:55] <TabAtkins> This would work "automatically", but only in relatively limited circumstances where you're not adjusting the layout based on writing mode.

# [21:55] <TabAtkins> It also doesn't solve related problems, like the fact that in japanese vertical writing an underline goes on the opposite side of what you'd expect.

# [21:56] <TabAtkins> So a third possibility is to have some sort of selector or media query or whatnot that distinguishes between when a document/element is in vertical or horizontal mode and lets you apply arbitrary CSS to it.

# [22:51] <jgraham> Random fact of the day: whenever I hear "Let Down" by Radiohead I hear the start skipping and jumping in my head, just like it does on my CD. It is quite disorienting when it plays normally

# [22:53] <gsnedders> TabAtkins: Sorry, but the fact that myself and a colleague have had that in our heads for the past two months (almost) and sung it numerous times around jgraham is obviously missed on you.

# [23:04] <MikeSmith> so a read an article that says "HTML5 is to HTML4 as Werner Herzog's 'The Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call - New Orleans' is to Abel Ferrara's 'Bad Lieutenant' -- and HTML5 is to Flash as Herzog's 'The Bad Lieutenant: Port of Call - New Orleans' is to 'Sex and the City 2' and its underlying franchise.'

# [23:12] <jgraham> The later "Bad Lieutenant" film apparently borrows from the earlier one, whilst the director claims never to have seen the earlier one. The director of the earlier one is apparently very angry about the existence of the later one

# [23:13] <jgraham> It you believe wikipedia, the earlier one has much more sex than the later one

# [23:14] <jgraham> So I guess the point of the metaphor is that HTML5 is less likely to get you laid