Dresden holocaust where hundreds of thousands of civilians were murdered. You justify it but they did nothing wrong. They were largely women and children. Disgusting how the Allies can be so self righteous yet commit crimes like that and the atomic bombings of Japan!

There is no such thing as a Nazi child, but almost everything was blown to smithereens in Germany during WWII (as well as Japan). It was all in a good cause - destroying Fascism - but some of the methods used may have been disproportionate and therefore counted as war crimes.

[Graphic picture of dead German bodies removed.]

And we see today that not much has changed. Gaza is run by a fascist dictatorship, and the innocent people there suffer for it.

(Original post by felamaslen)
There is no such thing as a Nazi child, but almost everything was blown to smithereens in Germany during WWII (as well as Japan). It was all in a good cause - destroying Fascism - but some of the methods used may have been disproportionate and therefore counted as war crimes.

And we see today that not much has changed. Gaza is run by a fascist dictatorship, and the innocent people there suffer for it.

1) hasn't time changed and do we as citizens of the world not operate by a different set of rules than to those preceded by nearly 70 years, what is the use of the geneva conventions, the UN, the Hague courts if everyone is fair game and indiscriminate bombing of civilians and basic infrastructure such as hospitals is ok and is nothing to bat an eyelid at.

2)If that is the case then there is nothing separating the leaders of western democracy and ''what the west stands for'' aka USA, UK...etc, there is nothing separating them from dictatorships such as the Assad regime and his indiscriminate bombing of his own people.
What makes the Assad bombardments and use of heavy disproportionate force abhorant and barbaric yet the same activities when carried out by the IDF, they have the right to ''defend themselves'' and '' both sides need to de-escalate'' as though it is a fair fight between two equal powers.

(Original post by StopJewishWars)
Dresden holocaust where hundreds of thousands of civilians were murdered. You justify it but they did nothing wrong. They were largely women and children. Disgusting how the Allies can be so self righteous yet commit crimes like that and the atomic bombings of Japan!

(Original post by Al-farhan)
1) hasn't time changed and do we as citizens of the world not operate by a different set of rules than to those preceded by nearly 70 years, what is the use of the geneva conventions, the UN, the Hague courts if everyone is fair game and indiscriminate bombing of civilians and basic infrastructure such as hospitals is ok and is nothing to bat an eyelid at.

2)If that is the case then there is nothing separating the leaders of western democracy and ''what the west stands for'' aka USA, UK...etc, there is nothing separating them from dictatorships such as the Assad regime and his indiscriminate bombing of his own people.
What makes the Assad bombardments and use of heavy disproportionate force abhorant and barbaric yet the same activities when carried out by the IDF, they have the right to ''defend themselves'' and '' both sides need to de-escalate'' as though it is a fair fight between two equal powers.

Nothing is defensible about indiscriminate bombing, the point I was making is that some vile regimes sometimes make it unavoidable. The bombing of Germany and Japan in WWII and the "collateral damage" which occurred because of it, was far worse than anything the IDF does, although the enemy which Israel is fighting (Hamas) is no less evil than Hitler or Hirohito's empire. In both cases, if you support human rights you should support the people doing the bombing - even if you think the bombing itself is not justified.

(Original post by felamaslen)
There is no such thing as a Nazi child, but almost everything was blown to smithereens in Germany during WWII (as well as Japan). It was all in a good cause - destroying Fascism - but some of the methods used may have been disproportionate and therefore counted as war crimes.

This is what happened to innocent Germans as a result of their fascist leadership:

And we see today that not much has changed. Gaza is run by a fascist dictatorship, and the innocent people there suffer for it.

That image is going to give me nightmares . I can see the guys burnt face.

(Original post by mojojojo101)
Since WW2 marked the advent of total war pretty much every military force going has engaged in at least some degree of needless civilian slaughter.

Worth noting that they almost always use the same justification as felamaslen did, that they were/are inevitable casualties of a war against dictatorship.

It wasn't a justification as such, and I treat them as war crimes. But they may have been necessary, at least some of them, in order to defeat fascism.

I also treat the collaboration with Soviet Russia during WW2 as another war crime, and that was certainly necessary. If the USSR had remained allied to the Nazi regime, the Western allies would have been defeated.

I don't know about during the war, but after the war former German occupied countries/ regions sought revenge on innocent aryan.babies - the result of illicit relations with their women and nazi soldiers

Check out the lebensborn programme and what happened to many of these children after the war -. It's quite

(Original post by Al-farhan)
1) hasn't time changed and do we as citizens of the world not operate by a different set of rules than to those preceded by nearly 70 years, what is the use of the geneva conventions, the UN, the Hague courts if everyone is fair game and indiscriminate bombing of civilians and basic infrastructure such as hospitals is ok and is nothing to bat an eyelid at.

2)If that is the case then there is nothing separating the leaders of western democracy and ''what the west stands for'' aka USA, UK...etc, there is nothing separating them from dictatorships such as the Assad regime and his indiscriminate bombing of his own people.
What makes the Assad bombardments and use of heavy disproportionate force abhorant and barbaric yet the same activities when carried out by the IDF, they have the right to ''defend themselves'' and '' both sides need to de-escalate'' as though it is a fair fight between two equal powers.

The Geneva convention only applies if you lose or you aren't a major power. If the US goes to war against, say, Russia, commits breaches of the Convention left, right and centre, wins the war and emerges even more powerful who would enforce it against them? If everyone's scared enough of you, or just figures fighting you will be too hard to be worth it, you can what the **** you want.

You need to differentiate between the actions of a state and its people.

Whilst the lies and propaganda being pumped out by the Israeli state is largely supported by their population, there is increasing anger over in from within the country itself. And Israel certainly does not represent Jews as a whole.

The idea that the Israeli state is protecting its citizens from the "terror" of the Palestinians, must be severed in the minds of the Israeli people.

And to answer the question, "we", as in ordinary British people killing ordinary German people on behalf of the state will of course be justified in the state's eyes. Murder becomes the highest duty in war!

It is worth remembering though that the technology that went into aiming weaponry in WW2 was about as sophisticated as the average pen.

During the first few years of the war the RAF found out that less than a third of all bombs dropped were dropped within 5 miles of the correct target. We simply didn't have the ability to hit something accurately, certainly not to the degree we can now.

Lots of German women were raped (even really old and young) by the invading Soviet forces which is absolutely disgusting, even if they supported the NSDAP - it's not their fault as such if they were brainwashed, naive, any of these things and to do that is totally unnecessary. The same applies to killing German children in land liberated from the Nazis or revenge attacks on ethnic Germans living outside Germany, it was unnecessary and totally unjustified and I do think the USSR is not condemned by history in the way that it should be. On the other hand, when it comes to destroying factories used to create weapons and munitions or blowing up railway lines used to supply Hitler's army, civilians would die but it had to be done.