Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

I haven't seen EV's exposition, but I'm heartily tired of hearing theistic condescension explaining that because one doesn't believe in gods, one cannot be concerned about, interested in, informed on, or comment competently on the subjective, the emotional, the moral, the transpersonal, the intuitive, the metaphysical, the subjective, the fantastical or the ecstatic.

And if there's any meaning of 'spiritual' that is not captured by one or more of these ideas, I would also love to hear what it is.

It's one thing to have a competence that others don't. I for example, cannot balance a skittle upon my nose, and would not presume to comment on the expertise this requires. That I have never wished to do so is not grounds to dismiss the skill.

However, it's totally another matter to invent an undefined competence and then patronise others for not having it. That says nothing about expertise nor insight, but a great deal about character.

There are more stakeholders here than just DjR, EV. Please edify and enlighten us.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

I haven't seen EV's exposition, but I'm heartily tired of hearing theistic condescension explaining that because one doesn't believe in gods, one cannot be concerned about, interested in, informed on, or comment competently on the subjective, the emotional, the moral, the transpersonal, the intuitive, the metaphysical, the subjective, the fantastical or the ecstatic.

And if there's any meaning of 'spiritual' that is not captured by one or more of these ideas, I would also love to hear what it is.

It's one thing to have a competence that others don't. I for example, cannot balance a skittle upon my nose, and would not presume to comment on the expertise this requires. That I have never wished to do so is not grounds to dismiss the skill.

However, it's totally another matter to invent an undefined competence and then patronise others for not having it. That says nothing about expertise nor insight, but a great deal about character.

There are more stakeholders here than just DjR, EV. Please edify and enlighten us.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

I'm sorry if I didn't make my point clearly enough, EV. Here it is, elaborated.

By way of context, a lot of atheists feel some religious parties put on airs when they talk of matters spiritual. I understand that 'spiritual' can just be a synonym for 'theological' and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about states of being and apprehension beyond normal sensory awareness.

You haven't said this to me, but I've had other religious people (not all Christian) tell me, "You're not spiritual enough to understand this." And they seem not to be talking about theological indoctrination, but degree of sensitivity.

I'm not clear how they could possibly know that, but they seem certain, and that makes me wonder.

Now I note that astrologers, palm-readers, tarot-readers and faith-healers also use such language when they're talking fatuous crap. It's a cheap excuse -- like saying 'your skepticism is interfering with the spirits'. It's blaming the querent for the claimant's incompetence, evasion and hollow claims to authority.

I hope you're not doing that, EV. I hope you have something insightful to say, and can say it articulately. That would make for an interesting conversation, and could prove educational too.

So I picked up on DjR's question in sympathy, since I've suffered similarly myself.

If you want to be defensive and evasive, that's your prerogative, however it might already look like you're saying exactly what astrologers do: 'Your skepticism is interfering with the spirits.'

That would be disappointing, and no great testimony to transparency and accountability in reason -- two principles upon which I think we'd agree that good debate is founded.

But surely a clear account would demonstrate -- to many if not all -- that you are not being patronising and evasive. It could also inform and educate.

I'd certainly welcome that. So my irritation at past experiences aside, please consider my voice added to Danne's in cordial and sincere invitation to articulate as clearly as you can, what you think spiritual means, and how you recognise it.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

I'm sorry if I didn't make my point clearly enough, EV. Here it is, elaborated.

By way of context, a lot of atheists feel some religious parties put on airs when they talk of matters spiritual. I understand that 'spiritual' can just be a synonym for 'theological' and I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about states of being and apprehension beyond normal sensory awareness.

You haven't said this to me, but I've had other religious people (not all Christian) tell me, "You're not spiritual enough to understand this." And they seem not to be talking about theological indoctrination, but degree of sensitivity.

I'm not clear how they could possibly know that, but they seem certain, and that makes me wonder.

Now I note that astrologers, palm-readers, tarot-readers and faith-healers also use such language when they're talking fatuous crap. It's a cheap excuse -- like saying 'your skepticism is interfering with the spirits'. It's blaming the querent for the claimant's incompetence, evasion and hollow claims to authority.

I hope you're not doing that, EV. I hope you have something insightful to say, and can say it articulately. That would make for an interesting conversation, and could prove educational too.

So I picked up on DjR's question in sympathy, since I've suffered similarly myself.

If you want to be defensive and evasive, that's your prerogative, however it might already look like you're saying exactly what astrologers do: 'Your skepticism is interfering with the spirits.'

That would be disappointing, and no great testimony to transparency and accountability in reason -- two principles upon which I think we'd agree that good debate is founded.

But surely a clear account would demonstrate -- to many if not all -- that you are not being patronising and evasive. It could also inform and educate.

I'd certainly welcome that. So my irritation at past experiences aside, please consider my voice added to Danne's in cordial and sincere invitation to articulate as clearly as you can, what you think spiritual means, and how you recognise it.

Draba, you just repeated yourself, I haven't blamed you for anything, what would you like know??

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

I'm not into tricks, I have no need for them. How about you try something relevant because it doesn't look like sense is your favorite method :)

In short, whether because I'm an atheist, I'm missing some common human sensibility, or whether the people who claim this are (as I have long suspected) full of pompous, fatuous crap.

Although you haven't accused me personally of the former, the quote DjR excerpted seems to suggest that you believe this of every atheist:

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

Perhaps you meant something by that quote other than what I construed, EV. If you did, then I'd welcome your clarification. But if you didn't, then you sweepingly accused me -- and every atheist -- of some deficiency, and with DjR, I'd like to hear what it is and how you know.

And in case you may have overlooked my previous request, please call me Ruv. When you write 'Draba' in a dismissive and scornful way, it sounds hateful.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

I'm not into tricks, I have no need for them. How about you try something relevant because it doesn't look like sense is your favorite method :)

It seems relevant given the thread title. How do you enter the spirit world? What color is your spirit? Surely you would agree our true essence, its nature is photonic. My house is emerald green with electric speckles of the most brilliant yellow you've never seen. Just exactly what level can you converse on?

In short, whether because I'm an atheist, I'm missing some common human sensibility, or whether the people who claim this are (as I have long suspected) full of pompous, fatuous crap.

Although you haven't accused me personally of the former, the quote DjR excerpted seems to suggest that you believe this of every atheist:

No sir, I've given Dan the information relevant, he likes to play games and he has an agenda. So repeating myself to play games is not something I like.It's not that you're missing anything, rather atheists view the world through only the material, whereas theists view the world both material and spiritual.It is hard to communicate spirituality to a material mindset, because a material mindset is restrained by only one layer of understanding.To understand spiritual things we need to get beyond just the physical, I don't know everything Ruv, I just share what I know and nothing more.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

Perhaps you meant something by that quote other than what I construed, EV. If you did, then I'd welcome your clarification. But if you didn't, then you sweepingly accused me -- and every atheist -- of some deficiency, and with DjR, I'd like to hear what it is and how you know.

You mean the one above? I'm not sure what I've accused you of sir, you need to speak plainly and to the point, we're wasting time.

And in case you may have overlooked my previous request, please call me Ruv. When you write 'Draba' in a dismissive and scornful way, it sounds hateful.

Na I like Draba better, what's wrong with that? But I can call you Ruv.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

And, I wholeheartedly apologize if you have spoken plainly and I either missed it or, as you say, didn't comprehend it. That is why I implore you to write it out here so we may use it as a guide to find God and live by the spirit, as you do. Don't you want to share that knowledge with us and have us live by the spirit, too? Don't you sincerely want us to find God?

If not, why not?

Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

I'm not into tricks, I have no need for them. How about you try something relevant because it doesn't look like sense is your favorite method :)

It seems relevant given the thread title. How do you enter the spirit world? What color is your spirit? Surely you would agree our true essence, its nature is photonic. My house is emerald green with electric speckles of the most brilliant yellow you've never seen. Just exactly what level can you converse on?

Lol I've always been spiritually sensitive, I've cultivated spiritual principles into my life since I was a kid. I don't do tricks or breathing methods or none of that crap, what I've experienced is purely organic, just observing what I see and what I sense I don't force anything I just learn from it.

I seek God in spirit to learn spiritual things, I listen, I move, I observe.

No sir, I've given Dan the information relevant, he likes to play games and he has an agenda. So repeating myself to play games is not something I like.

I assure you, I'm not playing games, as Ruv said, I'm hoping to get something educational out of this. If it works, I only have you to thank.

It's not that you're missing anything, rather atheists view the world through only the material, whereas theists view the world both material and spiritual.It is hard to communicate spirituality to a material mindset, because a material mindset is restrained by only one layer of understanding.To understand spiritual things we need to get beyond just the physical

Okay, that's a start, but it really doesn't get to the crux of the matter, which is to get beyond the physical, as you say, how do we do that? And, don't worry, I have more than one layer of understanding. As long as you can deliver on the goods, I'll be completely honest and forthwith in it's execution and the full acknowledgment it deserves.

Please carry on your explanation as best you can and I'll simply ask questions if I don't understand something.

Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth

At 5/24/2015 7:41:50 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:It's not that you're missing anything, rather atheists view the world through only the material, whereas theists view the world both material and spiritual.

Hm... So the spiritual is unimportant then, since I'm not missing anything? Or it's important and I am missing something, but you're just trying to console me because you think I'm beyond help?

It is hard to communicate spirituality to a material mindset, because a material mindset is restrained by only one layer of understanding.

Oh dear. That's what others have told me too. Yet it feels to me that my understanding is very layered and nuanced. For example I feel that I apprehend the world physically and emotionally; consciously and unconsciously; empirically and morally; rationally and intuitively; analytically and artistically; personally, interpersonally and transpersonally; pragmatically and ecstatically; behaviourally and empathically; philosophically and operationally; functionally and compassionately; as a moment and as a continuum of moments stretching far behind and beyond my span of life - and I often feel that I apprehend others as though they are not just one moment, but an assembly of them -- the child present with the adult now, and the adult later.

Are you saying that none of these is spiritual and there's something more? If so, what is it? Are you certain it's a waste of time to tell me? If so, how can you know?

To understand spiritual things we need to get beyond just the physical, I don't know everything Ruv, I just share what I know and nothing more.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

I'm not into tricks, I have no need for them. How about you try something relevant because it doesn't look like sense is your favorite method :)

It seems relevant given the thread title. How do you enter the spirit world? What color is your spirit? Surely you would agree our true essence, its nature is photonic. My house is emerald green with electric speckles of the most brilliant yellow you've never seen. Just exactly what level can you converse on?

Lol I've always been spiritually sensitive, I've cultivated spiritual principles into my life since I was a kid. I don't do tricks or breathing methods or none of that crap, what I've experienced is purely organic, just observing what I see and what I sense I don't force anything I just learn from it.

I seek God in spirit to learn spiritual things, I listen, I move, I observe.

Okay. I understand where you're coming from, but know this: nobody can be truly spiritual in the physical world, nor many of the other worlds that are still bound to degrees of time. The world "spiritual" in calculation is partly a deception used to confuse your ego that it can be more than the child it really is. But I get what you're saying.

Mostly I travel in the light of my soul, and that can be rewarding, but also a risk if you come across something grumpy. But to truly go home, to step back into the light of your real spirit, this is difficult, this is greatly more rewarding, for this is the only time all unwashed amnesia becomes scrubbed clean. The state of mind in spirit is pure ecstasy and knows all the secrets of the universe. But is not the mind of God. I could say more on this another time, but I've got to get some sleep. To swear to Jesus to tell not a lie, truly I say you are ego, you are soul, and best of all, you are spirit.

For me, I always know before crossing over whether I'll get home or not simply by the length of increasingly long durations to time between breaths. Each breath takes longer and long to occur. Until the point to which you're tempted to open your eyes and gasp for air. But stay calm until the morbid sensation peaks, and then poof...you're gone. And then you realize you never needed air to live. It's not easy.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Ask me to reveal something, and on an on I guess we'd get into the intimate details to the pineal gland, because therein is the revolving door.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Ask me to reveal something, and on an on I guess we'd get into the intimate details to the pineal gland, because therein is the revolving door.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Ask me to reveal something, and on an on I guess we'd get into the intimate details to the pineal gland, because therein is the revolving door.

I don't understand your posts and dont pretend to. Sorry.

I figured that much, and that's probably why instead of asking for your thesis of comprehension, instead what was said was to ask a question.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Ask me to reveal something, and on an on I guess we'd get into the intimate details to the pineal gland, because therein is the revolving door.

I don't understand your posts and dont pretend to. Sorry.

I figured that much, and that's probably why instead of asking for your thesis of comprehension, instead what was said was to ask a question.

At 5/24/2015 5:48:01 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:I've spoke plainly but you are unable to comprehend simplicity apparently.

If you want to converse with me here I'm gonna need to see something worthwhile. You're going to have to surprise me and show me you are capable, good luck Atheist.

So I'll step to this challenge, and challenge you, yes I will push you to the highest limit a mortal can achieve. If you are unable to answer my question, then my achievement, over and over will humble you right quick. I will give you the answer if you cannot explain what happens just before one becomes free to ALL moorings binding us to not just this realm, but all realms. So please, describe for me the breathing process just before this necessary demise.

If you want humble me then first make some sense, thanks.

To enter the unseen you would close your eyes. This trick anyone can do and go here and there, but to go to the farthest reaches, to become a veteran cosmonaut, well something scary happens to the process of breathing. Could you explain this?

I'm not into tricks, I have no need for them. How about you try something relevant because it doesn't look like sense is your favorite method :)

It seems relevant given the thread title. How do you enter the spirit world? What color is your spirit? Surely you would agree our true essence, its nature is photonic. My house is emerald green with electric speckles of the most brilliant yellow you've never seen. Just exactly what level can you converse on?

Lol I've always been spiritually sensitive, I've cultivated spiritual principles into my life since I was a kid. I don't do tricks or breathing methods or none of that crap, what I've experienced is purely organic, just observing what I see and what I sense I don't force anything I just learn from it.

I seek God in spirit to learn spiritual things, I listen, I move, I observe.

Okay. I understand where you're coming from, but know this: nobody can be truly spiritual in the physical world, nor many of the other worlds that are still bound to degrees of time. The world "spiritual" in calculation is partly a deception used to confuse your ego that it can be more than the child it really is. But I get what you're saying.

The spiritual is simply the spirit world what encompasses the physical. It's all around us and we have a layer of our being that is spirit, some call it consciousness, some call it soul it just means the part of you that remains when the flesh dies.The spirit part of our being is what discerns spiritual things not our material body. Our spirits have the ability to recognize that which is spirit, by cultivating these abilities through the spiritual lifestyle one can learn and observe from it.

One can live in spirit while on the earth, that is what Christianity is it's about putting down the flesh to elevate that which is spirit, to be "spiritual" simply means to begin to release the flesh and pursue and apply spiritual elements to ones life but no, no one can be "perfectly spiritual" in this body, I would agree with that.

Mostly I travel in the light of my soul, and that can be rewarding, but also a risk if you come across something grumpy. But to truly go home, to step back into the light of your real spirit, this is difficult, this is greatly more rewarding, for this is the only time all unwashed amnesia becomes scrubbed clean. The state of mind in spirit is pure ecstasy and knows all the secrets of the universe. But is not the mind of God. I could say more on this another time, but I've got to get some sleep. To swear to Jesus to tell not a lie, truly I say you are ego, you are soul, and best of all, you are spirit.

Sounds like your promoting astral projection, while I do not oppose this, this is not generally Christian ideas in that the spiritual structures are somewhat different.

For me, I always know before crossing over whether I'll get home or not simply by the length of increasingly long durations to time between breaths. Each breath takes longer and long to occur. Until the point to which you're tempted to open your eyes and gasp for air. But stay calm until the morbid sensation peaks, and then poof...you're gone. And then you realize you never needed air to live. It's not easy.

Yeah I know what you're talking about, but the different spiritual planes theory is not necessarily Christian in nature, and OBE's are a somewhat different practice what is your "religion" if I may ask?

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Oh bull I've said the same things since I've been here, and that's with both accounts and what I say is direct and simple.The day Dan is ready to apply Christianity to his life is the day hell freezes over lol, I'm not into playing games here, that's his department.

Applying spiritual principles is easy, but it requires the breaking down of the flesh in many ways to reveal more reality of spirit. It's like pealing a banana lol, stripping away layers of flesh to get to the goodies. And that is something I'm not seeing possible in Dan yet, sorry but he just has an agenda.

At 5/24/2015 7:41:50 PM, EtrnlVw wrote:It's not that you're missing anything, rather atheists view the world through only the material, whereas theists view the world both material and spiritual.

Hm... So the spiritual is unimportant then, since I'm not missing anything? Or it's important and I am missing something, but you're just trying to console me because you think I'm beyond help?

Stop assuming things! That is the only confusion here. Let's start over Ruv, forget what I said to Dan and lets move forward.

It is hard to communicate spirituality to a material mindset, because a material mindset is restrained by only one layer of understanding.

Oh dear. That's what others have told me too. Yet it feels to me that my understanding is very layered and nuanced. For example I feel that I apprehend the world physically and emotionally; consciously and unconsciously; empirically and morally; rationally and intuitively; analytically and artistically; personally, interpersonally and transpersonally; pragmatically and ecstatically; behaviourally and empathically; philosophically and operationally; functionally and compassionately; as a moment and as a continuum of moments stretching far behind and beyond my span of life - and I often feel that I apprehend others as though they are not just one moment, but an assembly of them -- the child present with the adult now, and the adult later.

Slow down and relax, what I meant by it's hard to communicate something spiritual to a material mindset simply means it is hard to converse and debate about spiritual subjects while filtering it through a material mindset.An example would be rejecting the existence of God based on the grounds that science is unable to produce material evidence of it's existence.When it's pointed out that God is Spirit by His very nature, which means God is outside the restrictions of material evidence, the material mindset will restrict that possibility by forcing it in a nasty circle which goes like this....... there is no physical evidence for God, therefore God does not exist, repeat repeat repeat. So yes, this is hard to communicate with but I'm not necessarily talking about you Ruv, this is just my observations in general.The material mindset usually rejects anything of a spiritual nature, so naturally this is difficult for theists to deal with.

Are you saying that none of these is spiritual and there's something more? If so, what is it? Are you certain it's a waste of time to tell me? If so, how can you know?

To understand spiritual things we need to get beyond just the physical, I don't know everything Ruv, I just share what I know and nothing more.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Oh bull I've said the same things since I've been here, and that's with both accounts and what I say is direct and simple.

Then answer the OP, directly and simply.

The day Dan is ready to apply Christianity to his life is the day hell freezes over lol, I'm not into playing games here, that's his department.

So Danne is not ready? You don't see that as your failure to show the lolly?

Applying spiritual principles is easy, but it requires the breaking down of the flesh in many ways to reveal more reality of spirit. It's like pealing a banana lol, stripping away layers of flesh to get to the goodies. And that is something I'm not seeing possible in Dan yet, sorry but he just has an agenda.

Sounds like excuses to avoid showing the lolly to me. If Danne is not ready, you won't show the lolly. Yet you can't explain why Danne is not ready or how he goes about getting ready. It's a Catch-22.

I suspect that the only way he could be "ready", according to you, were if he "became spritual" in which case you would have nothing to do. You may fail to see a problem with this.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Oh bull I've said the same things since I've been here, and that's with both accounts and what I say is direct and simple.

Then answer the OP, directly and simply.

I've explained the spiritual, multiple times in this tread alone actually, wow.....AND, I've explained what it means to "be spiritual".

The day Dan is ready to apply Christianity to his life is the day hell freezes over lol, I'm not into playing games here, that's his department.

So Danne is not ready? You don't see that as your failure to show the lolly?

Nope.

Applying spiritual principles is easy, but it requires the breaking down of the flesh in many ways to reveal more reality of spirit. It's like pealing a banana lol, stripping away layers of flesh to get to the goodies. And that is something I'm not seeing possible in Dan yet, sorry but he just has an agenda.

Sounds like excuses to avoid showing the lolly to me. If Danne is not ready, you won't show the lolly. Yet you can't explain why Danne is not ready or how he goes about getting ready. It's a Catch-22.

I haven't made any excuses, what don't you understand about what I said?

I suspect that the only way he could be "ready", according to you, were if he "became spritual" in which case you would have nothing to do. You may fail to see a problem with this.

No because becoming "spiritual" is not a label, that seems to confuse you atheists a lot.To be spiritual is like anything else you want "to be", if you want to learn how to become a musician and play an instrument you learn by seeking out an instrument, observing and learning from others, applying and practicing and observing the progress and the results, it's all the same across the board no different with spirituality. This is how we all learn anything.It's in the application and lifestyle, it is incorporating God into ones life by applying what we learn, observing it and responding to it.What separates the wrapper (label) from the content is moving from what we know from the label, to actually consuming it (applying it).If Danne "really" wants to know what spiritual instructions and principles Jesus taught he can find them in the Gospels, he doesn't need me to spell it out for em. Not complicated stuff.

Two different worlds, two different natures, the flesh and the spirit. You live your life in the flesh, but you also have the option of learning the spiritual, to live by spirit.

I've requested repeatedly the explanation for spirit/spiritual, the learning and access thereof to use in discovering God, to no avail.

EtrnlVw, I ask sincerely that you please explain this process in as much detail as is required for me to learn the spiritual and live by spirit. Show the math if there is any. Thank you in advance.

Good luck. Theists play this game endlessly.

They're like a mischievous child in the playground with both hands behind their back claiming they have a lolly if you guess correctly, left or right. When you ask them to first show you that they really have the lolly, they will make every excuse under the Sun why they can't reveal it.

Oh bull I've said the same things since I've been here, and that's with both accounts and what I say is direct and simple.

Then answer the OP, directly and simply.

I've explained the spiritual, multiple times in this tread alone actually, wow.....AND, I've explained what it means to "be spiritual".

I take that back my apologies, that was after your post. But as well as many other threads I've posted in.

The day Dan is ready to apply Christianity to his life is the day hell freezes over lol, I'm not into playing games here, that's his department.

So Danne is not ready? You don't see that as your failure to show the lolly?

Nope.

Applying spiritual principles is easy, but it requires the breaking down of the flesh in many ways to reveal more reality of spirit. It's like pealing a banana lol, stripping away layers of flesh to get to the goodies. And that is something I'm not seeing possible in Dan yet, sorry but he just has an agenda.

Sounds like excuses to avoid showing the lolly to me. If Danne is not ready, you won't show the lolly. Yet you can't explain why Danne is not ready or how he goes about getting ready. It's a Catch-22.

I haven't made any excuses, what don't you understand about what I said?

I suspect that the only way he could be "ready", according to you, were if he "became spritual" in which case you would have nothing to do. You may fail to see a problem with this.

No because becoming "spiritual" is not a label, that seems to confuse you atheists a lot.To be spiritual is like anything else you want "to be", if you want to learn how to become a musician and play an instrument you learn by seeking out an instrument, observing and learning from others, applying and practicing and observing the progress and the results, it's all the same across the board no different with spirituality. This is how we all learn anything.It's in the application and lifestyle, it is incorporating God into ones life by applying what we learn, observing it and responding to it.What separates the wrapper (label) from the content is moving from what we know from the label, to actually consuming it (applying it).If Danne "really" wants to know what spiritual instructions and principles Jesus taught he can find them in the Gospels, he doesn't need me to spell it out for em. Not complicated stuff.