DS crits for what.. 200k with decent vengeance? Keg smash crits for over half a million consistently. If you have trouble with other tanks, it's their fault for not watching their own threat, simple as that.

Sure you could probably find ways to increase your threat but at the end of the day, it's up to both players - do what needs to be done, don't just let them tell you to play better - that is the WRONG and terrible attitude to have.

you're obviously going to pull when you have full vengeance and the other tank doesn't. i usually try to ride threat around 108% (you need 110% to pull off the other tank) until my vengeance dies down, then i go full bore again. having the dk use his DRW would make a big difference too (esp if glyphed). the glyph is a dps decrease, but in reality it might be an increase if it allows you to go full bore...

Try opening with Dark Command, IT, PS, DS, HS and saving Outbreak until after you pop glyphed DRW then apply Outbreak so you have four diseases ticking. Hit ERW and start reg dps rotation. As long as monk holds off keg smash for 3 seconds at pull your initial threat will be off the meter.

DS crits for what.. 200k with decent vengeance? Keg smash crits for over half a million consistently. If you have trouble with other tanks, it's their fault for not watching their own threat, simple as that.

Simply comparing two skills numbers won't work. You can only Keg Smash every 8 seconds while you can Death Strike as often as your runes allows it. Death Strike barely crits while a raidbuffed Brewmaster sits at 35%+ crit rather easily. A lot of your damage (=threat) comes from diseases which you apply once and they keep on ticking all fight long. But that won't help you on snap aggro. Actually snap aggro is rather bad for all tank classes right now due to how vengeance works. The old tank has high attackpower while the new one needs to get hit a couple of times to reach that value as well, *one* crit at an early stage of the fight can be enough to bring the aggro back to the first tank despite it's class. Using aggro tools in those stages (hand of salvation, glyph of DRW or the mighty "escape button") is crucial for nice flow.

And an important notice: threat doesn't come from damage alone, monks raid- and selfhealing is at least on par with DKs in a high vengenace scenario but if you happen to remember those T11 changes they nerfed threat generated from death strike to the oblivion allowing other tanks to compete on a fight like Chimaeron while monks threat generation remains untouched since MoP release.

On the mastery vs hit/exp part:
With runestrike always hitting, diseases only needed to be applied once it comes down to death strike & heart strike benefitting from excessive expertise and in addition to those soul reaper and blood boild benefiting from hit rating. With no runes wasted due to a miss/dodge/parry on the first mentioned styles i'd only aim for the hit cap (7.5%) and leave expertise alone if you'd have to sacrifice mastery for it. While the difference between 0% exp and 15% can be notified on the dps side, having 5100 more mastery rating is nothing you could talk down easily.

Originally Posted by zer0xfr

<Jin'Rohk heroic>

Why would the actual tank would want to stand in the puddle?
1) This way the melee zerg has a harder time finding good positions to stay and you have turn him around on time. But if your offtank just stands in the puddle nobody has to worry, he can stay there with all his x stacks and just walk out after the static burst. He has to watch his threatmeter.
2) With the regular tankswap the new tank has some (3-4) stacks left over, he can't start in the puddle. It's just to much back and forth for me compared to just stand in the middle and wait for the things to come.

You provided numbers that in a vacuum may sound cool and all but may have little value in practice.

I was asked to provide some basis for my statements so I did. I hardly think my statements are that controversial in practice either though.

Avoidance is obviously better than accuracy to reduce incoming Auto-Attack damage.
Avoidance does nothing against magical or otherwise unavoidable damage.

I was hoping that this was obvious to most people, if not I'm sorry. That being said, there's to my knowledge no fight in tot where there's enough magic/unavoidable damage hitting the tank to make accuracy beat avoidance for overall damage reduction.

Avoidance adds RNG while accuracy reduces/removes RNG.
Avoidance does little to nothing against burst damage (which is what kills tanks).

It's really not that simple when it comes to dks. We generally use death strikes to deal with streaks of attacks/burst hitting us, and cds (apart from high dmg periods) to cover for times when we don't have a death strike up. Additional avoidance makes streaks of attacks hitting way more unlikely/uncommon, in turn meaning that the times where we are caught without a death strike and/or cds up even more rare. Considering that the only times a dk can/should die under normal circumstances (healers alive and with mana) is when this happens I hardly think that avoidance is as useless as you make it out to be. This is in addition to that you save your healers some mana/time that they can use to take care of the raid, save for later, or dps with.

And in the long run more dps is probably more useful than slightly less damage taken.

I never said anything about if the trade-off is worth it or not, I simply said that gearing for accuracy means that you'll take more damage than avoidance (and that you in return gain dps, that's the trade-off). Personally I'm gearing for accuracy atm, since all the bosses I've tanked in tot so far hit for quite insignificant amounts. If you are further ahead than me, in lower gear or doing 25 mans it wouldn't surprise me if gearing for avoidance proves to work better.