Pac-10 expansion: Analyzing the options

Have heard, read and seen a load of speculation about which schools the Pac-10 would add if it does expand (presumably to 12 teams, but if the Big Ten goes to 16, then all hell might break loose).

The only way it happens is if the presidents/chancellors find the right fit academically, geographically, athletically and financially. And I can’t emphasize that last one enough.

Commissioner Larry Scott was hired to increase the league’s revenue, which means a bigger TV contract — either with the existing networks or by forming its own network. (My guess is that it will pair with the ACC and/or Big 12.)

Expansion only makes sense if the newcomers bring enough TV households/dollars to the table to offset the cost to existing members of splitting the money two extra ways. This has to be a net positive on the revenue front for the 10 current teams.

I’m skeptical the league can find two teams that satisfy the presidents/chancellors on all fronts. But here’s an assessment of options based on what I’ve gathered over the years from Pac-10 officials, athletic directors, and those well-versed in Pac-10 matters but not on the league’s payroll.

And please note: None of the following analysis is based on my conversation with Scott on Monday morning. We didn’t talk expansion specifics and, in fairness to him, I don’t want people connecting that chat with the following information.

UtahExpansion chances: Decent.Comment: Utah is a large research institution and would bring the Salt Lake City TV market (No. 36 in U.S.). By my figuring of the expansion math, the Utes have to be involved.

ColoradoExpansion chances: SlimComment: If the Pac-10 could get CU, with its solid academic rep and the Denver TV market (No. 18), it would do it in a heartbeat. (Remember: It tried and failed in the 1990s.) But why would Colorado leave the Big 12? Maybe the Buffs are unhappy with the league’s uneven bowl revenue distribution formula: the teams that make the postseason get more than the teams that don’t. Is that a compelling enough reason? Not sure.10:55 a.m. update: The Lawrence Journal-World is reporting that the Big Ten is talking to Texas. If UT bolts the Big 12, then obviously that would have huge financial implications for that league and could potentially spur Colorado to jump to the Pac-10.

Boise StateExpansion chances: Just this side of zero.Comment: A good football team is not enough to join the Pac-10, folks. Boise State doesn’t have the academic reputation, the broad-based athletic programs or the TV market (not in top 50) to satisfy the expansion requirements. As noted above, the newcomers would have to bring enough TV dollars to offset splitting the revenue pie 12 ways. The current members aren’t going to expand if it means their shares decrease.

Fresno State, San Diego State, Nevada and UNLVExpansion chances: Zero.Comment: For all of the reasons stated in the Boise comment, times 3.

Brigham YoungExpansion chances: Very, very … one more time: very … slim.Comment: The Pac-10 presidents look down upon BYU academically and, although no one has said so explicitly, I get the sense that the halls of secular academia on the west coast want no part of a church-affiliated school (regardless of which church that is). And lastly … if you assume Utah is part of the expansion mix … how does BYU bring more net TV revenue for the conference? It would already have the SLC market with the Utes. It’s extremely difficult to imagine the Pac-10 bringing two new mouths but only one new trough.

MissouriExpansion chances: SlimComment: Another school the Pac-10 would grab in a heartbeat because of its academic rep (very good school) and the St. Louis (No. 21) and Kansas City (No. 31) TV markets. Why would Mizzou leave the Big 12 for a conference that’s not the Big 10? I’m not sure.

But if the Pac-10 could get any two-school combination of Utah, Colorado or Mizzou, then expansion might become a reality.

Jon Wilner

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Mizzou to the Pac-10? Um, ok. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard that suggestion and it will never happen. Mizzou wants into the Big Ten so they can get ahold of the Committee on Institutional Cooperation research funds.

As for Texas wanting out of the Big XII… why? They own the Big XII. From day one, the conference was structured specifically to cater to Texas. That’s actually one of the reasons why the conference is in such a weak position now. If they don’t like the conference, they need to look in the mirror.

alaskaman

Jon said, “how does BYU bring more net TV revenue for the conference? It would already have the SLC market with the Utes.”

You should do your homework a little Jon. If you had you’d know that bringing the utes doesn’t bring the TV market. They’re not the #1 team in that area and it’s not even close.

If the Pac 10 wants that TV market they will have to bring BYU. The Utes aren’t even the favorite team in their own town, BYU is. If the Pac 10 took Utah and not BYU, when football season rolls around and it’s gameday, and BYU is playing a MWC foe, and Utah is playing, ohhhh let’s say, Washington St, I guarantee you 80% of the TV market will be watching BYU’s game on TV.

Plus, haven’t you noticed when BYU comes to play in your stadiums? When we traveled to LA in 2007 to play UCLA we had more than 10,000 fans come out to root us on. The Utes don’t get that. We go to bowl games and sell out the seating every year (including the tickets that didn’t get sold by the Pac10 teams).

The Utes don’t do that. No sir, if the Pac 10 wants the SLC/Provo TV market, they need to bring in the team that owns it. BYU
P.S., just between me and you…I really hope they don’t invite us. I’d rather be in the MWC.

alaskaman

The Sunday play excuse is absurd. Men’s Volleyball combines BYU with several teams from the Pac10 (UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc) and they seem to have no problems working out their schedules to accommodate each other with playing on days other than Sunday.

All of these lame excuses are just a smokescreen to hide the real reason: The California schools are religious bigots and don’t want to own their own baggage. Anyone remember what Stanford’s band did during halftime when BYU came to play in 2004? Their AD and University President had to apologize for them afterwards.

You can say things without saying things. The Calilfornia schools speak loud and clear on this subject.

Milehighduck

It’s a folly to think that adding CU would give access to the Denver TV market. I am huge fan of PAC10 athletics, and it is painful that I get stuck with crappy BIG12 football games on the ABC affiliate instead of the Premier Athletic Conf game. Although I would love getting more P10 games here, I don’t think it would ever happen. Denver is melting pot of many alums from all over, and has very little following for CU. Denver is a great sports town and they take their professional sports very seriously. This town will always be a Broncos first town. Also, people around here view Boulder as “50 square miles surrounded by reality” and don’t follow their athletic programs. It’s a folly to think that adding CU would give access to the Denver TV market.

joe-slc

byu will never be invited,we are talking about a church owned
school that discriminated against african-americans until the late
70s.the cal. schools will not stand for that!

Bob

Why all the talk about Texas and its academics? First, these are athletic conferences we’re talking about. Throwing research into the mix has nothing to do with winning football or basketball games or any other games for that matter. As for Texas, you’re talking about a school that has one of the lowest graduation rates for football and basketball players in the country. It’s dead last in the Big 12. If you’re interested in the state of Texas market and academics is a big deal then go after Texas Tech. Highest football athlete grad rate in the Big 12 and highest public institution football grad rate in the country after the private Stanfords, Vanderbilts, Wake Forests and Rices of the world. In addition, the Pac 10 already has one major arrogant member in USC – why would it want another (Texas) that’s even more arrogant. By the way, I am a Long Beach State grad living in the Austin, Texas suburb of Dripping Springs for the last 16 years and know full well the grip the Univ. of Texas and all its money has on the rest of the Big 12, including Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Texas Tech and Nebraska.

Scooter

If BYU is kept out becuase of prop 8 and the supposed Mormon factor involved there (gee, let’s see…Mormons are 2% of the population and somehow, magically, they found a way to multiply their vote by 50…) then, the seleciton process also needs to consider that Utah student body and athletes are also 50/50 Mormon/Non-mormon. Professors/faculty….probably 30%. If you’re going to lump all Mormons into some Prop 8 issue to disgard them, then, you have to take whatever rating you come up with to admit Utah and discount it based on the Mormons at the school. Cuts both ways, right?

jkstewart2

There’s too much stupidity in these discussions.

1. The PAC10 because of extreme mismanagement has lost it’s glamor. The TV contract is a joke. The SUNDAY basketball game on a minor cable network is sad, especially watching the empty stands Even when the PAC10 was the best in BB, it got no national TV coverage….thanks to a stupid commish. Furthermore, the BOWL games tie-ins are bizarre….

2. To the majority of Coloradans, it is a state in the great plains. More closely identified with Nebraska and Oklahoma (although, why anybody wants to be identified with Oklahoma is a mystery). Even though, the Boulderites might desire to strut their stuff on Polk street, the Politicians ain’t going to be happy leaving the BigXII.

3. BYU vs Utah is one of the great rivalries in college sport. It’s every bit as savage as USC vs UCLA and Duke vs UNC. I would find it very hard to believe that Utah would leave BYU to pursue the glory of taking on WSU. I am a SC alumnus and have lived in Chapel Hill and Salt Lake.

4. Since when did having a medical school become the criteria for belonging to a sports conference? And, since when is having a graduate program the end all for a college conference… Somehow, I thought that the majority of NCAA athletes were undergraduates… I must have missed the change over… Of course, it sounds much worse to say that the Pac10 is excluding BYU because they are unwilling to comprise their Mormon beliefs. It stinks of religious intolerance….

5. The primary funding of BYU is through the tithing of church members. They will not be playing on Sunday. However, like all college sports programs they will stand on their heads for national TV coverage… witness Thursday night football games in November…

6. BYU undergraduates have higher incoming standards than Utah, any BigXII institution, and most of the Pac10.

7. Texas aint goin to the Big11. I can’t see them missing A&M to play Indiana or Illinois. They are a public institution and the revolt in Texas would slaughter all the administrators. Furthermore, has anyone looked at a map, I really wonder if they teach geography any more?

8. Ridiculous comments about Mizzou have been raised. WHy stop here, why not go after Penn State or ND…. really get a clue….

Religious tolerance

Easy to fix the no play on Sunday.!!! ………………………………………………..

The Pac 10 teams that play a lot of sports on Sunday keep playing. There will be two divisions, put the teams that play on Sunday, in one division, and the teams that don’t in the other division. I know the playoffs are different. The NCAA accommodates BYU by respecting there religious beliefs. Many of the Pac 10 team’s play very little on Sundays. It is interesting that very few conferences across the country play sports on Sunday. If they can do it what is the big deal.

I ask one thing of the 750,000 Mormon’s in California alone, that live in your communities are they good families. How about a little religious tolerance.!!!

This conversation is going on in Arizona,Washington, and Oregon and BYU is the favorite by far.!!!

gcp

I really don’t understand where the PAC 10 is coming from. In college sports, revenue is everything. Who cares if the liberal West Coast schools don’t like the more conservative BYU. The fact remains that there are BYU fans everywhere (especially in California). The PAC 10 would add a much bigger TV market and fan base to its conference by adding BYU. So what if they don’t drink coffee or alcohol, so what if they won’t play on Sunday. Let them play on Saturday and watch them fill the stadium and bring in more money. Plus, BYU has much better all around athletic programs than Utah or Colorado does.

Realist

I don’t understand why people think that if the Pac 10 takes Utah, then they’ll get the whole TV market. BYU has a much, much…one more time, much bigger fan base than the Utes to. That includes inside AND outside the state of Utah. What the Utes bring to the table has been highly exaggerated. BYU fans won’t care one bit about watching the Utes play if they’re invited into the Pac 10. I don’t think you understand the rivalry and hatred between these two teams if you really think that the Pac 10 will get the whole market. Or perhaps you’re really bad at geography and can’t see that Provo (BYU) is only 50 miles south of Salt Lake (Utes).

Ron

No one mentioned the Air Force Academy and they should. First lets eliminate the above. According to insiders close to Larry Scott, Tim Weiberg was brought on board as COO and Deputy Commissioner of the Pac-10 specifically for his strong experience as having been the former Big 12. In Weiberg was bold and confident in bringing on board such an equally competent right hand man to support him. This is not all about money as most claim, rather it’s about financial survival, academics and perception. The Pac-10 is “The Conference of Champions. If you are a member that is your conference motto. Despite the nonsense about the Latter-Day Saints, Utah has nearly an equal amount of Mormons. This is no more than political fodder to stir up controversy. BYU and Utah offer great potential to the Pac-10.
Many insiders discount the idea that only one the two teams is necessary to secure the Salt Lake City/Provo television market for TV contractual reasons and the financial support it brings. The reason is simple, the Pac-10 is not just looking at a two-team expansion rather they are seriously strategizing a four-team blitz that includes the two aforementioned teams as well as Colorado and Air Force.
For academic reasons the Pac-10 will not consider Hawaii, San Jose State, San Diego State, Fresno State, UNLV, Utah State or Boise State. They serve their communities well and despite accusations of insider conference snobbery they just don’t measure up academically and historically with the other traditional Pac-10 schools.
At a recent family social event someone asked about Colorado State and Colorado but that idea was immediatley extinguised. State will never measure up to the Pac-10. Colorado would be free to include Colorado State on its out of conference schedule every year much as Notre Dame is part of USC’s legacy and history. Air Force, meanwhile is a natual rival in the state for Colorado. As a military academy it may not seem to offer a specific local TV market rather it does offer prolific national following for any and all who served in the Air Force ranks.
The Denver and Salt Lake City/Provo markets would be secured. Those who choose geographical distance lose this one as both Colorado locations are closer to Seattle than either Arizona or Arizona State. The conference would offer two solid seven-team divisions. Historically the four California schools (USC, Stanford, Cal and UCLA) provide somewhat of an anchor for the conference. In private conversation each team would play its divisional competition each year equating to six games. In addition, each team would still secure three non-conference games annually leaving 3 games left to play. Currently teams typically play a twelve game schedule with occasional thirteen game schdules.
The possibilities and potential for the conference are profound from a financail perspective. As far as diversification, which is very important as far as perceptions, it would be unmatched nationally yet it would secure the highest academic standings adding additional prestige to the conference. For a nation that recently elected an African-American President no one thinks BYU is a challenging addition. If it was, it would put our country’s social back by decades.
You heard it here first: Utah, BYU, Colorado and Air Force.
TCU would most likely take Colorado’s place in the Big 12, Air Force is independent anyway casuing no harm or conflict. Arguably it leaves the Mountain West crushed. However, there really is no problem here as TCU would certainly replace Colorado in the Big12 leaving five schools in the Mountain West Conference to incorporate into the WAC conference which would also increase to 14 teams thereby insuring a BCS birth.
Away from insider talk I have not heard any word on how the two divisions would, should or could look like. Herein, I offer my own ideas for two divisions. They would be split into a North and South Division. The North would be comprised of Oregon and Oregon State, Wahington and Washington State, BYU, Cal and Stanford. The South Division would be comprised of USC, UCLA, Arizona and Arizona State, Utah, Colorado and Air Force. Some traditionalists might have issues with USC not playing Cal and Stanford each year but they would play on a rotating basis. If a USC-Stanford or USC-Cal or for that matter UCLA-Cal or UCLA-Stanford comes between closing a deal or not I’m confident the conference and individual institutions would work it out amenably. From my perspective I point to the Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry that was such a prolific national rivalry. Those two rivals now play on the national fottball scene home and away for two years and then don’t play for two subsequent. Who would have thought that could ever be possible.
The 14-team concept is in the works. It may not happen but there are serious conversaqtions taking place at the highest level of the institutions involved.

Poncho

I’m a Ute fan but I also like BYU, I think it would be good for everybody if the Pac 10 took Utah and BYU. If there are reasons that BYU wouldn’t get invited I would still watch BYU play and I’m sure BYU fans would watch the Utes play too.
If the BYU fans or Utah politicians tried to stop Utah from going without BYU that would be stupid, the LDS church sure wouldn’t want anything like that to happen since there are a lot of church leaders that are “Utah Men”

Xenon

I think in the end, BYU will end up in the BigXII and not the PAC10. And I think that is fine …..

I have checked lots of boards about PAC10 and BigXII expansion. Every single PAC10 board has a bunch of negative stuff about BYU and the Mormon church, while essentially none of the BigXII boards.

Why does it matter …. Because “perception is reality”. The last thing the PAC10 wants is to worry about protesters at the announcement press conference booing the choice. They don’t want to have to try an figure out with their new TV Partner how to make sure bigoted signs don’t make it on TV (see ESPN’s coverage of the SDSU fan’s at the recent BYU Basketball game). They don’t want to have deal a small but very vocal minority of PAC10 fans that have at the least biased opinions and the worst bigoted opinions.

Meanwhile, the BigXII has no such worries. Their fans, while they may not agree with Mormon Doctrines, certainly don’t see BYU and the Mormons in nearly as negative a light as the progressive liberals of the West coast. (Kind of ironic huh, the progressive liberals preaching tolerance and diversity, can’t tolerate diversity in their conference).

So, in the end, the PAC10 will pass on the school the meets their stated criteria the best (best athletics of the three BYU/Utah/Colorado, best control of a TV market, best facilities of the three, etc.).

And honestly, I think that is best for everyone involved. I honestly believe that majority of the PAC10 fans are NOT anti-Mormon at all, BUT there is an extremely vocal and crude minority that is. And I think the PAC10 leadership, BYU’s leadership, and others will wisely avoid that potential landmine.

Mike

What about Texas and Oklahoma?

OT

There is one major west coast research institution that Jon Wilner did not mention as a potential fit for the Pac-10.

This university has been eyeing the Pac-10 for many years, and vice versa.

This major west coast research university:

1. …has a main campus that is located on a bluff overlooking the Pacific
Ocean, and the campus is separated from the urban area of a major
multicultural west coast city by a forest

2. …has an enrolment (spelled correctly with only one “L”) of 45,000
students (more than 9 out of 10 Pac-10 schools; only Arizona State has more students) and an endowment of over $1 billion (more than 5 out of 10 Pac-10 schools)

3. …already plays Pac-10 schools each season in a number of non-revenue sports (Hint: many of this school’s non-revenue sports teams are in the NAIA)

4. …has a new indoor arena for basketball and ice hockey

5. …does not need a big on-campus football stadium because it can rent an off-campus (indoor) stadium if it were to play in the NCAA Division I
Football Bowl Subdivision

6. …will be able to recruit the best student-athletes from an entire
nation, not just from the surrounding area, if it were to join the Pac-10
(note that the high schools in the surrounding area all play American
Football with 4 downs and 11 players on each side of the line of
scrimmage)

7. …will offer the Pac-10 a new west-coast TV market in the Pacific Time
Zone, and access to a regional sports cable TV network which currently does not carry Pac-10 sports (Hint: that particular regional sports TV network does carry the Seattle Mariners.)

8. …has a crosstown rival which is one of the NCAA’s newest member
institutions

Can you name the university and its location?

mk92

UBC, eh? Ain’t gonna happen (though it would be fun).

TrueBlue

I find it interesting that everyone cites BYU’s ties to the LDS church and that church’s stand on Prop. 8 as a reason to keep BYU out of the PAC 10. It appears that everyone believes that the “open minded” and “free thinking” powers that be in the PAC 10 will only allow other institutions into the PAC 10 IF those institutions’ open-mindedness and free thinking agrees with that of the PAC 10 presidents. Is it just me or does this sound as closed minded and hypocritical of a position as I have ever heard? This country was founded on the principles of self-determination, free speech, and liberty and everyone appears to be saying that the PAC 10 is afraid of these principles because BYU doesn’t think like other institutions in the PAC 10….WOW!

The more interesting fact, however, is that this is about PAC 10 athletics and MONEY. The truth is that the University of Utah is a far distant second to BYU in Utah both in TV set tuned in AND attendance at basketball and football games. BYU regularly sells out is 64,000+ seat stadium for football and averages 15,000 for its home basketball games. This is compared to Utah, which only infrequently sells out home games in football at its 50,000 seat stadium and averages only 7,500 in attendance at its basketball home games.

Add to this the fact that when BYU comes to town in the PAC 10, the home teams’ attendance jumps 10,000-15,000 for football and 2,000-3,000 for basketball. Then, you add to this the fact that there are 1,000,000 LDS households outside of Utah that tune in to BYU football and basketball, which, in effect, quadruples or quintuples the number of TV sets that tune in to watch Utah sporting events.

The bottom line is simple. If the PAC 10 wants to expand and actually bring in revenue to the conference, it should be looking at BYU way ahead of Utah, not the other way around.

The Wisdom Cow

Trueblue said, “This country was founded on the principles of self-determination, free speech, and liberty and everyone appears to be saying that the PAC 10 is afraid of these principles because BYU doesn’t think like other institutions in the PAC 10….WOW!”

You don’t get it!

No Pac 10 school President believes LDS (and thereby BYU) does not have the rights you listed. The problem being that people believe LDS does not honor those principles themselves as applied to homosexuals with Prop 8.

Seriously, how hard is that to get?

Your argument is synonymous with the following: School X is owned by Chruch XXX. Church XXX believes black people should not be allowed to get married as it deminishes their marriages (and they provided money in an election which 52% of a State subsequently agreed with them). Anyone who says the Pac 10 presidents would not admit School X because of Church XXX’s positon does not understand Church XXX’s liberty and free speech interests.

If LDS was open-minded, why did they support Prop 8?

Regardless of which side of Prop 8 you wholeheartedly believe in, you must see the rift exists, and a significant number of people in a legitimate minority believe their rights were infringed by the efforts of LDS. It is the view of this minority which the Presidents are compelled to respect, just as if it were Church XXX against black marriage.

Bret S

If I remember my history correctly. The mormon church in the not distant past used to teach it’s members that black people were cursed.
Until the superstar leaders had a revelation about it. So when the proponents of LDS say that whoever doesn’t accept your church is bigoted I think you all need to look in the mirror. Accepting BUY into the league would be similar to accepting KKK into the league.

BYU = more attendance

BYU can back up the 10,000 to 20,000 thousand additional fan’s with fact’s

Take, for instance, the UCLA game in 2007. To get an accurate picture of what BYU did for that game, you need to measure against other UCLA home games that occurred prior to the start of the academic year.

What BYU did for that game was fantastic.

Look at UCLA’s other home openers, which nearly always come prior to school being in session:

If you would read the book of Mormon instead of talking about something you know nothing about, you would learn that in different time periods all people were cursed. white black hispanic asian . Look in the Bible the story of Noah the whole planet was cursed.

But then again you probably haven’t read the Bible ether. My guess is you are a secularsecular |ˈsekyələr|
adjective
1 denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis : secular buildings | secular moral theory. Contrasted with sacred . person.

No one ever said the Mormon church was perfect, so tell me which religion is. perfect.

Bret S

Buy dude, I don’t read the book of Mormon, the bible stops af the end of of revelation. Beware that whoever adds to the bible will be cursed.
Until the 1970s the mormons preached that blacks were cursed. Haven’t you ever wondered why so few blacks are mormon? So when the mormons talk about everyone else is bigoted, they need to look in the mirror!

BYU DUDE

Bret S

That show’s how ignorant you are. The Mormon church is the fastest growing church in Africa. In 1840 Joseph Smith became a great advocate for the rights of black people. He was one of the first white men to call for the end to black slavery, and he called for the education and granting of equal rights of black people in America, back in 1843. Some historians believe his pro-black teachings influenced Abraham Lincoln, who lived not far from Joseph Smith in the 1840s.

Joseph Smith appointed Elijah Abel, his adopted brother and a black Mormon, to be a Seventy Apostle; a position Abel retained throghout his life.

byu-dude keep living in your perfect world,the only reason
the mormons are the fastest growing religion in africa is
because you bribe these poor people with food once they
take something from you guys they feel obligated.but no one
can change your mind. you just keep drinking that kool-aid
we know where that will get you ask jim jones.

BYU DUDE

joe-slc

The most important thing to me is not that BYU is invited to the Pac10.
Because even if the invitation is extended, I am not so sure BYU would accept.

The most important thing to me is that people out side of our faith, know that the Mormon’s for the most part, are good people that do good works. I believe you will know the Mormon people by there works, and deeds, and not by innuendo and false whiteness. The character of a man is has nothing to do with who you are, but is measured by what you do.

Justin

There are plenty of good Mormons all around the world. There are more Mormons out side of the USA than live inside the USA.

Here is the answer to all of this, with out any expansion. The WAC and MWC champion at the end of the season play the top two PAC TEN teams in a four team playoff elimnation tournament. The winner is the ultimate KING Of THE WEST champion and will represent in a BCS game or championship game depending on there final ranking. For example: this past year, it would of went down like this = sat nov 29th Oregon vs Boise state, sat nov 29th Arizona vs TCU. The winners played each other the following week sat dec 5th for King Of The West championship. No need for expansion, the Pac Ten still gets two teams in, while the WAC and MWC champs still stay the same. Ratings will be off the hook for the those two weeks, season schedule still stays the same with 12 games. Its only fair for all 3 conferences, until there is a real college football playoff like president sujested. (also this would put presure on the big ten to add norte dame to join and make it a 12 member conference) Also for the BIG EAST to do the same (12 members). This would ultimately be the better solution and the answer for this debate :O)

WestBerkeleyFlats

BYU Dude said:

“Before you start Your Bigotry read the Book Of Mormon.”

The Book of Mormon is a thoroughly racist text. It states that the ancestors of the indigenous peoples of the Americas were cursed with dark skin for wickedness because dark skin is “loathesome” and light skin is “fair and delightsome.” The book reflects the racist prejudices of the 1820s U.S. society in which it was composed.

art director

I know of no faithful Mormons who consider the Book of Mormon to be racist. The people who have actually read it understand that the difference between the light and the dark in the Book of Mormon is their moral and religious character.

Unlike the racist ideas of the 19th century, where people a born a certain way and are to be treated differently because of it, the teachings in Book of Mormon value personal purity above all else, which is consistent with the values elsewhere in the ancient world.

In the Book of Mormon it is always the actions and personal decisions that make one pure or unpure, not one’s unchangeable racial heritage.

Craig Anderson

Fresno and Boise will never be in the Pac10. They absolutely do not fit in with the Pac10. Boise was a junior college 50 years ago. Of the CSU’s SJSU, and SDSU both do research (at the despise of the UC schools). SJSU has a strong rivalry with Stanford, however and just cant see the oldest CSU (SJSU) being allowed in. The dont get the respect because there are a lot of commuters at the school (but still have a large residential population). They had good success on the football field in 2006, but then slid back to awful. They need to establish themselves like Boise. SDSU has the exact same problems.

Colorado and Utah are both research schools. But, I just dont see the Pac10 expanding at all. They are a very traditional conference, with the teams being geographicly paired up in twos. There are a lot of Pac10 haters. This is a compliment. It has been the most underrated conference in football. Look at the records against the SEC over the last 10 years. The Pac10 owns. They were down in basketball this year, but that is only one year. Over the years they are a extremely stong basketball conference. I think they will entertain the idea of expanding, but if it isnt Texas are somebody else who can bring a tradition of winning (not just the past several years like Boise) it just wont happen and it shouldnt.

As I Ute I want nothing good for BYU, BUT I think (TV market-wise) most people overlook the fact that BYU is not just a geographical team. Mormons are BYU-CRAZED, super-fans to the point of being more annoying than the Denver Broncos fans of the Elway era. What is the church membership now? 6-8 Million or so with a good potion of that in the Western United States? Whatever it is, BYU brings more TV revenue in every western market than was previously there. Ever see them play on the road? 10-50% of the stadium is cheering for them because of the LDS influence and Mormons in any market coming out to see their team.

All that being said, I still don’t think the Zoobs (er, I mean Cougs) get in for the other reasons stated.

Michael Johnson

Once again, I say. DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS!!! MR WILNER. You do not have solid fact that top Pac 10 officials (I can’t even say their jobs) do not want a religious affiliation in this conference. Even if they did, you accusing them can bring more trouble to our conference than it is worth. You could start a firestorm. Boston College is in the ACC, Texas Christian is in the Mountain West. There is LDS all over this nation. I’m not. But they have a following just like Notre Dame and Boston College. Be Nice! We want them. Your financial figures are pulling at cow manure. Colorado is a bad idea. Utah – BYU has an interstate rivalry just like all other pac 10 teams. No other conference has all members with an interstate rival.Period. Colorado – Colorado St…NO. Georgia – Georgia Tech…NO. Ohio – Ohio St…NO. You know Mr. Wilner, I don’t think their are many Buff fans that want to give up Nebraska and Oklahoma.

JM

The perception of academics has nothing to do with it. Under the Pac 10 (old Pac 8) constitution, a member must be a major research institution.

In the 1990s the Pac 10 did not actively pursue anyone, contrary to media speculation. The conference funded a research study to look into possible expansion by analyzing every school west of the Mississippi against their criteria for membership (which includes a lot of variables). Only Texas, Texas A&M, Colorado, BYU and Utah fit the criteria.