Town Square

The Wave that changed the world

Original post made
on Mar 17, 2017

The classroom guards, symbolic armbands and secret salutes carried out by members of an elite student movement at Cubberley High School in Palo Alto may have ended decades ago, but that brief, ominous week in April 1967 when a history lesson took an unexpected turn continues to have worldwide impact on the eve of its 50th anniversary.

Although many may attempt to associate Trump with Hitler, the true bullies of today are Islamic terrorists and leftist socialists. Whenever these two groups are challenged for their violent tactics, they accuse opposition of being racist or bigots. With the defeat of Clinton, the protests did not include any form of debate, but simply involved violence and intimidation in the attempt to force conformity to the leftist view. It is true that it is happening today. Just look at the public schools and universities to see how leftists have controlled the lessons being taught and influenced students to have disdain for their own country while terrorists are glorified as heroes. And millions of patents are willing to spend billions of dollars on such nonsense without question. Parents should demand a refund.

Posted by resident
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 17, 2017 at 7:56 am

Have you seen the latest "NEWSWEEK" they have gone all out with this Godwin's Law hysteria. They put Hitler on the front cover, a flag of the fringe American Nazi Party on the back, and the entire issue is devoted to Trump-Hitler comparisons.

You are gravely insulting all the Americans around you who voted for him.
As grandson of European Jews who were gassed, I find these comparisons incredibly disturbing.

The sensationalist media ought to be ashamed of themselves. www.paloaltoonline.com has lost all credibility.

Posted by member
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2017 at 9:02 am

Here's a more apt simulation of societal parallels to fascism, which is described in the Concise Encyclopedia of Economics as socialism with a capitalist veneer ( Web Link ):

The PA city council passes a comprehensive plan that refers to the history/uniqueness of PA. The plan also recognizes that property owners are links in a historical chain of ownership, and City of PA -- enduring as it is and as owners are not -- must guide property usage to ensure progress, harmony amongst the people and common interest, and preserve the history and uniqueness of PA.

Plausible? Yes! Would you agree?

Compare to:

"The [goverment] should retain supervision and each property owner should consider himself appointed by the [government]. It is his duty not to use his property against the interests of others among his own people." Adolf Hitler (as quoted by Barkai 1990 in the reference, above)

Posted by True Equivalencies
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2017 at 9:18 am

Having studied the Holocaust and the factors leading up to it, as well as the post-war soul searching, I think people who try to deny the lessons of it and how ordinary people get swept into movements like this are the insulting ones. There are indeed many echos today. We must not be afraid to remember the past - including how ordinary people can end up complicit in such unspeakable crimes - so that we understand that it can happen again and that there was nothing hugely different about the people of Germany at that time and anyone else.

@David, As far as disdain for the country, protest is enshrined in the Constitution, the right of assembly, the right of free speach.

The real disdain here is the Rightists trying to destroy our government, so that other nations think the nation that produced the atom bomb and put men on the moon, can't do anything right (maybe even faked the latter). Our enemies are only too happy to go along with it. Who is trying harder to destroy our government, the one we have fought wars to defend? The Rightists or the Russians? People who tell themselves they believe in Creation, but are doing everything in their power to destroy it, who say they believe in markets but are doing everything possible to put a giant thumb on the scale for the wealthy,who say they are patriots but try constantly to undermine our national standing in the world, people who claim they believe in competition, but won't have honest discussions in which they use actual facts (as opposed to alternative ones), people who claim they are motivated by Christian values but only ever do the opposite of what is actually in the Bible so thoroughly that the public thinks Christianity is the same thing as a fascist-leaning Republican party - these are people regularly lying to themselves to remain part of a movement that isn't fiscally responsible, isn't really conservative in the true sense if the word, but us very much a group with an authoritarian leadership like described above.

Do you think you can equate the left of the last decades with Communist leftists? I don't, but I do see stirrings of that in response to the Rightist quest for permanent majority/destruction of democratic control. The way to stop that is not doubling down on this road, it's empowering the intelligent and pragmatic right that used to exist but hasn't been seen for decades. Fiscally responsible people, like Jerry Zbrown (yes, I am making a point there - haven't seen any actually fiscally responsible conservatives in decades. Penny-wise and pound-foolish is not the same thing.)

Posted by Sanctimonious City
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 17, 2017 at 10:49 am

It is pretty clear that the initial "Wave" started at the Frankfurt School in pre-war Germany with Cultural Marxism. After WW2 it moved to the US and took hold in leftist academia and then flowered among them during the Vietnam movement. In the last 40 years, it has infiltrated and taken over large parts of the education, entertainment, media and government sectors.

Because of the development of societies with large middle classes as well as highly publicized implosions of countries that embraced socialism, the theories of economic Marxism fell out of favor. So the left employed new tactics based on identity politics to separate out grievance groups and build temporary coalitions to seize power.

Where people were uncomfortable with giving a small minority of elitist technocrats the power redistribute wealth, they were more open to the idea that maybe the intelligentsia could re-write social norms and contracts given the civil rights abuses of the past. The grand bargain was to give up freedom and control in return for social justice.

Predictably, once the progressive elites gained power they started dismantling the Bill of Rights and the separation of powers outlined in the constitution. They implemented globalism to enrich themselves and multiculturalism as a way to fragment society and make it easier to create constituencies.

They also developed a version of amplified political correctness with virtue signaling as a way to grant indulgences and penances for excepting themselves from their own dogma. It is also very handy as a distraction from the obvious hypocrisy of stealing wealth while supposedly caring for the masses.

As identity politics has been exposed for what it is (run of the mill thugocracy) and populism has risen up to counter it, the left is shifting gears again. Now we see references to fascism and totalitarianism as scare tactics to bring the populace back under control.

Wondering around the bookstore in Town Square (Books, Inc which is excellent by the way), one finds almost the first 1/3 of the retail space dedicated to topics about surviving Trump and fighting back.

Ironically, it is populated with many of the conservative anthems like 1984, Animal Farm, the road to serfdom and the origins of totalitarianism. I am just not sure if they are intended as therapy, self help or blueprints for the next "Wave."

Posted by kimmy
a resident of another community
on Mar 18, 2017 at 1:33 pm

I was a student at Gunn when this Third Wave experiment took place, and my cousin was in Ron Jones' class. My cousin was very traumatized by it, and contrary to the article's claims, there was a great deal of discussion going on at the time about this "experiment." A few years later I was at Stanford during Zimbardo's famous prison experiment, which he himself had to shut down because of similar loss of boundaries and increasing hostility to "the prisoners," and a complete willingness to follow the head guard, Zimbardo himself. It is a very good thing to think about the Germans and Hitler at this time, whether or not comparisons can be made specifically. Take a look at what has happened in this country. The millions who followed Trump and still support him even after a disastrous few months display an inability to see the reality of who Trump really is. People always said that " It could never happen here, " and I do believe "it" will not be the same, thanks to the incredible resistance going on to the cruel policies the Republicans are trying to enact, the disastrous climate denial, the international fiascos happening daily, and the huge rise in hate crimes. As a Jew who lost 26 family members in Auschwitz, I thank the PAW for running this story!

Posted by Curmudgeon
a resident of Downtown North
on Mar 18, 2017 at 10:38 pm

" Ironically, it is populated with many of the conservative anthems like 1984, Animal Farm, the road to serfdom and the origins of totalitarianism."

Conservative anthems? Orwell? Well I suppose they could be used as blueprints for right-wing totalitarian regimes, so we are fortunate that Mr. Trump does not read literature. However, The Donald has Bannon, Sessions, Conway, and the Wall Street Swamp at his right hand, so he is definitely not being counseled in the ways of democracy.

Posted by resident
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 19, 2017 at 8:08 am

[Portion removed.]

Many, many amongst us support Trump. We would love to express this but we can't. The Trump-haters are so vocal and they assume that anti-Trump feelings are unanimous -- this assumption of unanimous anti-Trump sentiment is powered by the mainstream media and propagated all across social media -- it is a massive trend that gains steam and grows exponentially.

However, it does not cause any Trump voters, whether they are diehard or reluctant, to change their minds. We simply remain silent. We cornered, bullied. We have to hide our support for Trump -- or else. We can only express ourselves anonymously on forums such as these... and in the voting booth, with the curtain drawn.

Posted by TrueEquivalencies
a resident of Another Palo Alto neighborhood
on Mar 19, 2017 at 10:05 am

@resident,
"Many, many amongst us support Trump. We would love to express this but we can't. "

I think you will find that if you adopt these key practices, you will find you can express youself. I love having discussions with all people:
Be willing to stick with facts
Be willing to question ultra-rightwing radio and media and use more impartial sources like science and bipartisan organizations
Be willing to consider what the views of the other person actually are, and be willing to have an open mind
Don't just parrot rightwing party talking points.
Don't assume the other person is a straw man liberal (don't assume what the other oerson's virpewpoints are, then argue against those assumptions - I find it's impossible to have a rational discussion with so many rightists because they more often than not, don't seem to be arguing with me or indeed any real person, just their false talk-radio-induced ideas about liberals.
Don't shut down and quit just because the other person is making more sense and chalkenging things you want to believe, son't get angry just because someone disagrees with you. I am happy to debate head to head with anyone who wants to be rational. It's hard to find that on the right these days.
Don't assume the person on the other side doesn't want to espouse fascally conservative ideas - just realize, they are almost certainly thinking about the Republican party of Lincoln and Eisenhower, and not what we have today which is in many ways unrecognizable from the previous.

Many, many of us are Christians who believe in what Jesus taught in the Bible, and feel we must mostly hide it or people incorrectly think we are political rightwing ideologues and assume we hold a host of rigid political views that we don't have and are actually antithetical to the teachings of Jesus. Even though a recent Pew Research study found that only one segment of Christianity, most (but not all) white evangelical churches are large majority republican, but they found a lot of denominations majority democratic, the overt push by rightwing politicians to co-opt the most authoritarian side of the church and claim it represents Christianity, attaching the extreme and often dishonest, anti-common person political views to Christianity, has made it difficult to be open as a Christian lest people close themselves off. I recognize that people aren't aganst the views of Jesus when they learn them (like, you cannot serve both God and money, either you will love the one and despise the other...), but against hateful and ireation, often antithetical to the actual Biblical views, and it's impossible to have those discussions if people assume we are the rigid idelogues most rightwingers come across as in dialog. I would much rather people know me, and be open to knowing I am aChristian once they do. You could try that fir a change, too.

Posted by Explain
a resident of Mountain View
on Mar 19, 2017 at 1:23 pm

@bully, my point was that a clearly liberal media continues to censor information. Regardless which side, the fact they feel they need to control what we say and/or see is exactly what Trump and his supporters are rallying on.

@TrueEquivalencies I for the most part agree with @resident and would say to you this:

@resident,
"Many, many amongst us support Trump. We would love to express this but we can't. "

I think you will find that if you adopt these key practices, you will find concervatices can express themselves. We love having discussions with all people:
Be willing to stick with facts
Be willing to question ultra-left wing radio and media and use more impartial sources like science and bipartisan organizations
Be willing to consider what the views of the other person actually are, and be willing to have an open mind
Don't just parrot left wing party talking points.
Don't assume the other person is a straw man conservative (don't assume what the other oerson's virpewpoints are, then argue against those assumptions - I find it's impossible to have a rational discussion with so many leftists because they more often than not, don't seem to be arguing with me or indeed any real person, just their false talk-radio-induced ideas about conservatives.
Don't shut down and quit just because the other person is making more sense and chalkenging things you want to believe, son't get angry just because someone disagrees with you. I am happy to debate head to head with anyone who wants to be rational. It's hard to find that on the left these days.
Don't assume the person on the other side doesn't want to espouse fascally liberal ideas - just realize, they are almost certainly thinking about the Democratic party of Roosevelt and not what we have today which is in many ways unrecognizable from the previous.

I'm not going to get into the Christian aspect as that's a whole seperate list and discussion and I frankly don't have time.

What @resident was trying to say and what the left continually ignores and cannot seem to understand is that this area is such an incredible bubble and people insist theirs is the only view. I am in no way comfortable speaking my views in even my social circle, for fear of being denigrated and/or labeled a fascist, misogynistic, racist etc.

Posted by resident
a resident of Barron Park
on Mar 19, 2017 at 2:12 pm

^^^ except I was a Democrat and a huge Obama supporter before Trump came along. I am not a pure conservative.

I stopped believing in Obama after the ACA and the Iran deal.

From the day Trump announced, CNN and the rest of the entrenched, monolithic mainstream media covered him in a way that was oddly skewed. The blinders came off. The more Trump was mocked and viciously attacked, the stronger my support for him grew as it became obvious that CNN, etc. were dishonest and their sinister agenda exposed especially when they blew the "Access Hollywood" thing severely out of proportion. That was when my support for Trump went into overdrive.
They jugded him so innacurately and so hatefully, a massive gang up on one man who simply wanted to bring COMMON SENSE and sound fiscal policy into government. So it became personal. When they attack Trump, they attack me. I am not a fan of judgemental people.

Posted by Bully
a resident of Crescent Park
on Mar 19, 2017 at 3:21 pmBully is a registered user.

@Explain

How can you attribute it to liberals when they remove posts from both sides? I know "the media" is a conservative boogeyman, but you're not really providing any evidence of your assertions.

Let's analyze your fear of being called racist or misogynistic. Think about someone who you think is racist or misogynistic. Do you believe they look at their own beliefs and say "Yes, that is racist"? Almost certainly not. Instead, it's been shown that people are quite bad at evaluating their own beliefs. Perhaps you should trust your social circle's evaluation of your beliefs.

Posted by Reginanicole
a resident of another community
on May 28, 2017 at 12:31 pmReginanicole is a registered user.

I was a Democrat until I felt unsafe speaking my mind. I'm trying to figure out how to write this post so that I won't immediately be written off and a bigoted person who should be dismissed. Here it goes...
I used to be seen as a "good" person. When the LGBT fight was for "civil" unions I was good. When the fight was for "accepting transgender's decision to dress how they want" I was wonderfully accepting. But that changed overnight when I didn't think it was reasonable to completely re-define marriage by getting rid of "bride" and "groom". When I refused to acquiesce that a man can become a woman as a "personal" decision I was told I didn't know the science and didn't understand the facts (therefore stupid and to be ignored). When I thought it is child abuse to medically stop puberty for a child because they thought they were transgender (rather than explaining that sex is biologically determined and you can express dress however you want) I really started be see as a hateful person that doesn't care about the well being of children. My point is, I was demonized or dismissed because I didn't go along with the prescribed program like a "good person". I'm no different than I have always been! Society changed.

The leftist progressives need to do a self-evaluation and become aware of the tactics they are using. As a current dissenter against the left's new "social norms" I think the lessons of the Wave Experiment are alive and well. The tactics are being used through the media, the politicians, and the organized political groups.
Their first tactic is to yell "fascist, homophobe, xenophobe, transphobe, and racist" to anyone who dares disagree. If you don't shut up they will deliberately try to get you fired and ruin your reputation (look up Dr. Jordan Peterson). If that doesn't work then they will promote and enact violence (i.e. punch a Trump supporter and shut down conservative speakers). How quickly can things really go off the rail? What about what happened during the Arab Spring? Maybe it really doesn't take much to make the leap into the unthinkable?

So, I hope everyone wakes up and comes back to the middle before either the extreme left or the extreme right take us down into a living hell.