usedtobebabson wrote:Well put ER. I guess depression is a part of life, or we couldn't recognize it. I think depression is a choice we make in our mind and thoughts. Some of the Vets would describe it as " a love affair with "misery" thoughts. But breaking the threshold of depression is more difficult than learning to avoid it by slowing down and focusing on self awareness. (Hey was self awareness a theme of the 60s:)

for those people who have depression that is physiologically based it's not a matter of choice. they can focus on self awareness all they want and it ain't doing any good.

Good point OB, either that or the Pharmaceutical companies are brainwashing us to peddle their meds and make a buck. I guess if it's this chemical imbalance in the brain, you're screwed. Couldn't be that you can't wait to get back to your misery, in that case. I guess that I just don't know all. I guess that I just don't know

Where have all the young men gone? Long time passingWhere have all the young men gone? Long time agoWhere have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every oneWhen will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

Now back to our misery. Sometimes self-awareness brings the depression, sometimes it's being distant from everything else, at least for some people. A lot of the time, if not most, it's knowing the complete truth. So some people build stronger walls, everybody has their own wall inside, but for some it's not strong enough. And acceptance seems to be a lot of it, either having a wall to keep the world and everyone else out, or having a wall to keep everything and everyone that you find acceptable in. But however you look at it, everyone wants to be both accepted and independent, in their own ways, and it's that clash that keeps a lot of people from being truly happy, and it creates depression. But there's just too many reasons and explanations to completely discuss it...

I think if there's a general cause for depression in Western society, it's the contradiction between our promise of individual freedom, and the actual isolation created by our society. We are told we're all special and deserving in order to get us to behave as consumer units.

Anyway, I can only tell you what the mushrooms told me about my own black moods. I can't say what makes the rest of you loonies tick.

The gist was this. The centre of depression is pure fear. It's without content, but it grows when it attracts negative thoughts and lends them the illusion of truth, creating depression. If that process can be interrupted, you can "sit beside" the fear without falling into this negative spiral. In time the fear will fade.

It seemed like endless terror, that trip, but something useful came from it.

Yes.A convincing words from someone who has really been there.You gave a clean,vivid portray of the black dog, it's genesis,the way it strikes, the pain and effects of the bite.And one of the ways to fight it.It takes a great deal of courage and volition to overpower the beast.I know you are a brave girl,Sue,because I know what you are talking about.Did you also have a feeling of substantial solitude when you were depressed ?I sincerely hope it is all in the past for for you now.

Susan Butcher wrote:The gist was this. The centre of depression is pure fear. It's without content, but it grows when it attracts negative thoughts and lends them the illusion of truth, creating depression. If that process can be interrupted, you can "sit beside" the fear without falling into this negative spiral. In time the fear will fade.

It seemed like endless terror, that trip, but something useful came from it.

Wow! probably the most valuable words I've seen on these forums. Priceless! Now I have something of substance I can ponder. I only got as far as fear intensifies it, so I would force myself to dig it, thus wouldn't be afraid, and it would go away (the intensity, and terror). But fear being the center of depression! Negative thoughts! Grows and lends the illusion of truth! Never saw those coming.

Where have all the young men gone? Long time passingWhere have all the young men gone? Long time agoWhere have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every oneWhen will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

Not exactly solitude OKD, but a feeling that what was happening was too weird to explain to anyone, and I was therefore beyond help. Not true! That trip was over two years ago. I still get depressed sometimes, but it seems easier to ride out now.

I was diagnosed with something similar to depression. I know for me personally, depression is something that can be very hard to avoid or very easy. It depends on the trigger, the mood I was in before, and what I'm doing at the time. Most of my depression deals with feelings of isolation and not feeling good enough. It's not hard to deal with since most people do have depression at one point, but it's harder when you DO fall into a depressive period and can't seem to let go of the mood as easily as others can. And depression doesn't mean I've lost the ability to feel happiness, anger, love, or any of those things. But I suppose depression has a bigger grip on me for some reason.

I can't say I know the answers to depression or what causes it or how to treat it. I just know every individual must know their own bodies and what cures their ailments to rid of it...even if it's only temporary.

EmbryonicRabbit68 wrote:As for depression, for me, it's a drug, that has no high. Maybe I'm not the best judge because I'm not depressed often outside of heartbreak, but from what I've heard about certain drugs, it acts like the downside of some of them. And sometimes depression can come from chasing an emotional need you just can't get, striving to be a better person yet it's just nearly impossible, so you're reaching for that one thing that'll make you happy, but you can't get it. Sometimes you can predict it, sometimes you know that what you want you can't have, so the depression is going to come anyway. I don't find much of a need for drugs because it's all in your imagination, if you free your worries well enough, psychedelics will come to your mind freely. But that might just depend on the type of person... But they're all highs and lows we can achieve on our own. I think a lot of people, such as Janis and her generation, "needed" drugs to get there because they didn't think like that growing up, it was an entirely different world. But that's my opinion, my mind acts very weirdly.

I agree with you on this. Depression is a drug to some, but not all. It can be very addicting, though not by intention. It's like a leech more than a drug, imo. It just grabs onto you and doesn't let go, sucking all the life out of you.

I do think that the 60's hippie generation needed the drugs, as well. I know Grace has said that "No, we weren't depressed, we were happy"...well, duh, obviously if you're on drugs that make you happy, you WILL be happy. But she fails to mention before any of them ever did drugs. What did they feel then? Did they feel like an outcast, or that they weren't loved enough, or that they never deserved love, or that they were lonely? I think we can all feel the effects of psychedelics, uppers, downers, etc, all naturally. In fact, taking a drug feels fake to me - like to feel happy, transcendental, or high. It feels better when I am naturally happy, transcendental, or high...

Anyways.

With you standing here I could tell the world what it means to loveTo go on from here I can't use words, they don't say enough

I completely agree with you there, it's more like a leech than anything else. And taking a drug does seem fake too, I can just as naturally get high off of the music I love, that's why I love bands like the Airplane, they just naturally get you high. As does Janis, sometimes when I get depressed I play her music and I feel so not alone, and it was all gone before I even noticed it. The true test, whatever it really is, may be learning to really expand your mind and heart without the use of an outside chemical influence.

I do think that the 60's hippie generation needed the drugs, as well. I know Grace has said that "No, we weren't depressed, we were happy"...well, duh, obviously if you're on drugs that make you happy, you WILL be happy. But she fails to mention before any of them ever did drugs. What did they feel then?

Before that drug period, we were like the Hell's Angels, but not as extreme. We mostly drank, went to dances, chased girls, got into fights and had a few brawls with neighboring cities. Didn't get laid much before the free love fad happened, in my area wasn't until '68. Basically we had good feelings, but not enriching ones like from the Hippy time period. It felt good to fight (if you won), it felt good to get drunk and go crazy (car wrecks, beating someone up), trouble with the parents and cops for the drinking. The thing about the Hippy period is that when you weren't high you were still a quite different person, living in a much more fulfilling world than previous to that.

Where have all the young men gone? Long time passingWhere have all the young men gone? Long time agoWhere have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every oneWhen will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?

ER, I know exactly what you mean. Turn on some music and I can feel much more relieved of any negative feelings I may have had before. Getting naturally high is not hard to do at all. It's very easy to do, actually. But I guess if you're secretive about your feelings, it may be harder to let go and feel things that openly. In other words, someone who doesn't as easily accept or admit how they feel will probably find more comfort in drugs or alcohol than to do it all naturally.

I have a theory about alcoholism, actually. I've been studying psychology the past 2 years and I've heard a zillion theories on what causes drug usage and alcoholism. I think with alcoholism, it's both hereditary and environmental. For instance, there are alcoholics on both sides of my family, but I have no use for alcohol whatsoever. I think something in the environment must trigger that need for alcohol and getting shitfaced. Whether it's not feeling good enough, needing to let loose, wanting to fit in with the "in crowd"...I think some sort of environmental situation triggers it.

Anyways, that was a bit off topic.

Usedtobebabson, I can imagine that the 60s were a good time for those involved. I just wonder about their internal emotional life before that. Growing up in the 50s or 60s and how it affected them. I mean, I'm sure it was all fun and that nobody was depressed during those times. But from what I hear about what went on in people's lives before then (I mean mostly musicians), it didn't sound too fantastic. Though everyone is different. Not everyone was miserable, and not everyone was happy, either...like anything else, I suppose.

With you standing here I could tell the world what it means to loveTo go on from here I can't use words, they don't say enough

There's no such something as "fake" happiness. That's a Christian idea, and I refute it. If you feel happy, then that's happiness. But you do need to consider the quality of it, how long it's going to last, and what it cost you to get there.

PR, read "The Hidden Persuaders" by Vance Packard. That might give you an idea of the mental landscape of Fifties America, and why there was a cultural revolt in the Sixties. It doesn't sound like fun at all!

By fake happiness, I didn't mean that it wasn't real. It's just brought on by some sort of drug or alcohol or whatever is being used. And by real happiness, I meant that it came naturally without the use of anti-depressants or anything like that.

And no, the 50's weren't fun. That's what I've been saying. But thanks, I'll check the book out.

And people - I know I say things in an odd way, but before accusing me of getting my definitions fucked up, just ask me what I mean. I say things that make sense to me but not necessarily to you. And that goes vice versa as well, and we all know that...since especially on this forum, definitions of words seem to be so sacred to everyone. *rolls eyes*

With you standing here I could tell the world what it means to loveTo go on from here I can't use words, they don't say enough

We can't see facial expressions or hear voice tones, so there is a lot of room for misinterpretation on these virtual conversations.

Where have all the young men gone? Long time passingWhere have all the young men gone? Long time agoWhere have all the young men gone? Gone for soldiers every oneWhen will they ever learn? When will they ever learn?