Penalty fare issued 15 seconds into journey as asking for ticket

I just caught the 1304 from Bradford on Avon to Bristol which was running about 3 minutes late.
2 carriages, sat down straightaway halfway down first carriage and immediately saw train staff coming down the carriage he seemed to be walking past but I was geting my wallet out and managed to catch his attention and asked for a cheap day return to Oldfield Park, about 15 seconds after the train had set off from BOA.

He spoke vey quietly and seemed to say somethng about a penalty fare.
I had to clarify what he was saying and really took 2-3 attempts to clarify he was charging me a penalty fare.
Baically he didnt dispute that I was running late and purchasing a ticket at the first opportunity.
Tough. 20 quid thanks.

Is it really supposed to work like this ?
Whats the point of the stuff on nationalrail.co.uk saying buying on train at 1st opportunity is ok ?

I just caught the 1304 from Bradford on Avon to Bristol which was running about 3 minutes late.
2 carriages, sat down straightaway halfway down first carriage and immediately saw train staff coming down the carriage he seemed to be walking past but I was geting my wallet out and managed to catch his attention and asked for a cheap day return to Oldfield Park, about 15 seconds after the train had set off from BOA.

He spoke vey quietly and seemed to say somethng about a penalty fare.
I had to clarify what he was saying and really took 2-3 attempts to clarify he was charging me a penalty fare.
Baically he didnt dispute that I was running late and purchasing a ticket at the first opportunity.
Tough. 20 quid thanks.

Is it really supposed to work like this ?
Whats the point of the stuff on nationalrail.co.uk saying buying on train at 1st opportunity is ok ?

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That's exactly what a Penalty Fare is for.

You failed to use the ticket facilities prior to boarding, because you were running late (which isn't the railway's problem).

A Penalty Fare is effectively just a higher priced ticket only sold when you have made an error.

If you board any of our trains without a ticket, at a station where ticket buying services are available, you may be charged the full Single or Return fare relevant to your journey, or be reported for prosecution, or receive a penalty fare (if travelling from a station within the penalty fares zone). If purchasing tickets on board you will not be eligible for any railcard or other discounts.

Where Penalty Fares apply, rail passengers must buy their tickets before they start their journey wherever there are facilities for them to do so. If a passenger gets on a train without a ticket at a station where ticket facilities are available, they will have to pay a Penalty Fare if asked to do so by a ticket inspector who has been appointed as an 'authorised collector'.

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To avoid paying a Penalty Fare, you must purchase a valid ticket to your destination for the class of travel you wish to use before starting your journey.

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When can Penalty Fares be issued?

Penalty Fares can be issued if a passenger:
travels without a valid ticket

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You may be surprised to know that you actually committed a criminal offence which some TOCs would have prosecuted you (successfully) for.

I just caught the 1304 from Bradford on Avon to Bristol which was running about 3 minutes late.
2 carriages, sat down straightaway halfway down first carriage and immediately saw train staff coming down the carriage he seemed to be walking past but I was geting my wallet out and managed to catch his attention and asked for a cheap day return to Oldfield Park, about 15 seconds after the train had set off from BOA.

He spoke vey quietly and seemed to say somethng about a penalty fare.
I had to clarify what he was saying and really took 2-3 attempts to clarify he was charging me a penalty fare.
Baically he didnt dispute that I was running late and purchasing a ticket at the first opportunity.
Tough. 20 quid thanks.

Is it really supposed to work like this ?
Whats the point of the stuff on nationalrail.co.uk saying buying on train at 1st opportunity is ok ?

Click to expand...

Because some dishonest people try to avoid payment, the TOCs regard everybody as a potential criminal, and surcharge even the honest people who, for various reasons, have been unable to purchase a ticket at the right time/location, or who have got the wrong ticket because they failed to understand the fiendishly complex ticketing system. Welcome to Rip-Off land.

Oh, and the same would apply if you arrived early at a station, but the inadequate numbers of staff had been unable to sell a ticket to everybody in the queue before the train departed.

By his own admission, cumfey made no attempt to purchase a ticket before boarding a train on which penalty fares apply. I don't get why the result comes as a surprise.

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I can't read cumfy's mind, but how about he didn't realise he couldn't buy a ticket on the train? While there is no doubt the PF was correctly issued, not everybody is a fare expert like on here, and if you don't frequently travel on a line you might not realise you can't do this.

I can't read cumfy's mind, but how about he didn't realise he couldn't buy a ticket on the train? While there is no doubt the PF was correctly issued, not everybody is a fare expert like on here, and if you don't frequently travel on a line you might not realise you can't do this.

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I don't pretend to be able to read minds either, but the PF was correctly issued. I have empathy for the sting in the wallet but I don't see that there any reason for indignation. Searching out and misquoting web pages after the fact isn't going to make it invalid.

I don't know Bradford-on-Avon station, but all of the FGW stations that I use frequently - even those which do not involve walking through a physical station building if it is closed/ TVM only - do have Yellow penalty fares posters up to warn people of 'what is expected of them'.

I can't read cumfy's mind, but how about he didn't realise he couldn't buy a ticket on the train? While there is no doubt the PF was correctly issued, not everybody is a fare expert like on here, and if you don't frequently travel on a line you might not realise you can't do this.

They're saying that because they can't check everyone's ticket they put a penalty in place to encourage people to buy tickets who otherwise might not.

Think of it from a fare dodger's point of view: without penalty fares, if I don't buy a ticket and get caught I just pay the fare. With penalty fares, if I don't buy a ticket and get caught I feel the pain in my wallet.

They're saying that because they can't check everyone's ticket they put a penalty in place to encourage people to buy tickets who otherwise might not.

Think of it from a fare dodger's point of view: without penalty fares, if I don't buy a ticket and get caught I just pay the fare. With penalty fares, if I don't buy a ticket and get caught I feel the pain in my wallet.

Yes, I know what you mean, but I think there are some train companies where you can ignore them and pay on the train. You certainly could do this at Donny with NT and TPE in the past and still can with GC. And I know this was a PF zone, but how many people read the notices?

I also wonder sometimes about "discretion". A lot of staff on this site say they can recognise someone who has made a genuine mistake and those who are trying it on. If guards show discretion - or perhaps they aren't allowed to? - and others see this happening they may assume it's OK.

As I said, there is no doubt the PF is correct, but I can also see why the OP could have been surprised and annoyed.

Yes, I know what you mean, but I think there are some train companies where you can ignore them and pay on the train. You certainly could do this at Donny with NT and TPE in the past and still can with GC. And I know this was a PF zone, but how many people read the notices?

I also wonder sometimes about "discretion". A lot of staff on this site say they can recognise someone who has made a genuine mistake and those who are trying it on. If guards show discretion - or perhaps they aren't allowed to? - and others see this happening they may assume it's OK.

As I said, there is no doubt the PF is correct, but I can also see why the OP could have been surprised and annoyed.

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This exactly ! I've had a very small number of comments on Northern re getting a ticket before travel, yet on 99% of trips I've been sold one on the train - similarly, my old boss a very respectable sort, six figure salary was stumped at being selected for a finger wag on TPE going from Hull to Manchester - a journey he makes several times a month and has always bought a ticket on the train - operators can't have it both ways, you either can or you can't - stop profiteering on customers.

It seems to me the problem, on some TOCs at least, is that the regular conductors are happy to sell tickets on the train. This may be due to either or both of them getting commission on the tickets, or that they want to avoid a confrontation when they have no backup.

Then when there happen to be RPIs on the train, passengers who are accustomed to buying a ticket suddenly find they are being "penalised".