I'm going to try to type this without getting pissed off, because it's important that everyone know about it.

He made all his videos private.He logged into the root livestream staff account.He removed everyone's streaming permissions.He changed the password of the wrtlstaff root account for the livestream.He changed the password of the gmail the wrtlstaff account was set up on.He also changed the recovery email for the gmail to my email, in a strand of twisted logic.He then messaged me on skype and told me what he did.

Unfortunately, gmail does not allow recovery emails to be used until several days after the recovery email is changed. So I am locked out of the livestream.

I did this so you would be pissed at me and tell me to never come back

So yeah, apparently our move to twitch is coming sooner than expected. In the meantime, if you're wondering why you can't stream, that's why. And obviously he succeeded in making me pissed off.

If shotoku is reading this, please send me the password so I can clean up your fucking mess.

-----

In the meantime, does anyone have the video files or .sols for Angel, Metropolis Run, or any of his other tracks? I have Smile, but that's it.

Last edited by rabid squirrel on Thu Sep 10, 2015 11:17 am; edited 2 times in total

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This isn't really out of character at all. He's been fine one minute and ragequit the next. He has created multiple "demote me" threads in team place in the past only to change his mind later. Once when I was inactive for 2 weeks he rage-demoted himself because "the site is dead" and then told me he didn't really want to retire now that I was back, when I asked him after I came back. He has deleted all his videos and then regretted it later and reuploaded them several times. When he gets upset about something, he gets REALLY upset and does really stupid stuff through some bizarre rage-logic he has. I've never talked about all of this publicly because of staff solidarity and such but he's crossed a huge line this time. Accidentally, actually. If I had been able to recover the account this would all have been swept under the table. He didn't count on gmail's security being smart.

Here's the skype he sent me:

[9/10/15, 4:32:43 AM] Austin Roberts: I set you as the recovery e-mail for WRTLstaff@gmail.com[9/10/15, 4:32:57 AM] Austin Roberts: the password was changed, as well as on livestream[9/10/15, 4:33:01 AM] Austin Roberts: nobody can stream right now[9/10/15, 4:33:10 AM] Austin Roberts: if you want to change that, you'll need to recover both passwords and change them[9/10/15, 4:33:28 AM] Austin Roberts: I did this so you would be pissed at me and tell me to never come back[9/10/15, 4:33:48 AM] Austin Roberts: Please don't ask me for anything related to LR again[9/10/15, 4:39:20 AM] Austin Roberts: If there's anything you want me to unprivate form my YT channel, I'll make it unlisted and that's about it, I'd rather you didn't re-upload anything to IRTLTube[9/10/15, 4:46:22 AM] Austin Roberts: I don't want or deserve access to the TP section on WRTL, so I would advise setting me under normal members so I can't see it if I ever get the urge to log in again[9/10/15, 4:52:22 AM] Austin Roberts: Also, I swear I did make that Reddit post, I know I saw it get posted on there, I'm not lying. I know I clicked save and I know I saw it there before I closed the tab[9/10/15, 4:53:03 AM] Austin Roberts: but that isn't the sole reason for this

my guess is because he has (I assume) very little activity history on reddit and he was critical of reddit in his comment, his comment was auto-deleted by a reddit admin/bot.

In the meantime, here's smile:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ea-xZVwaE4k

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Well, Rabid said that he usually calms down after a week or two. We can talk to him calmly and probably get him to un-private his videos and stuff. We need to learn from this though, he is normally pretty nice, but these fits of rage put all of our stuff in too much of a security risk. I don't feel comfortable with some one who is randomly unreliable in charge of things. I don't have any problem with him coming back, but he'll have to be demoted permanently from any position that would give him means to sabotage anything. That said, he'll probably be sorry later for what he did. If anything, he hurt himself and his credibility.

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My Newest Line Rider Trackinternal dialogue

Working on new track right now!

At least Hedge believed in me.

@Hedgehogs4Me wrote:I can see you becoming known as one of the best riders of 2012.

if i were in your position rabid i would also take a break for a few days

@Traxis wrote:Probably need a system (unless twitch already does) to prevent stuff like this when the move to twitch happens.

The real issue is understanding who is mature enough to have this responsibility.

That's the issue with a community thing. In a perfect world, everyone would be on a schedule and we'd all be free to use the livestream and there would be no issues. But it's not a perfect world, and sometimes people want to ruin things or they're immature, etc.. And since the issue this time was a mod, it's hard to say who's trustworthy and who's not. Sure, we all know rabid is fine on it (he's the one who has to clean up after other people's mess, he wouldn't make the mess), and someone known for trolling wouldn't be allowed, but people in between aren't really quantifiable. Who's to say X is allowed when Y isn't, despite being in a similar position for both responsibility and trust and activity. Is age a factor? Based on post quality? Do you have to be a mod (except not this 'cause reason)?

Quantifying maturity isn't easy, as I'm sure you know. Especially on the internet, in communities like this.

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@Hedgehogs4me wrote:Threadmaster Trax has requested a death. I shall snipe it from the window.

@Traxis wrote:You're tellin' me someone like THIS gets mod, and I couldn't even get Power Rider? Jeez.

I can't tell if this is meant to be a joke, but if it is supposed to be it's in incredibly poor taste. You know full well why you never got anything. It's because you made an alternate identity and bragged about it? And were a dick to staff for months/years afterward?

I dunno if you were watching, but shotoku ran tons of contests, featured videos, organized collabs, and ran an editing shop, on top of being a super active and nice member and making some killer line rider tracks. He was kind of the only active staff member for like a year. He was also an excellent moderator for a long time and dealt with high-pressure situations well for his first few months as mod.

This stuff started happening when he had a fallout with kevans, who he used to be friends with. He was constantly telling the rest of the staff how he hated kevans's guts, he rage-banned him a couple times, and while we couldn't really disagree with him that the shit kevans was pulling on him personally was straight-up awful (manipulation, intimidation, turning any discussion into an argument), we had to tell him that that kind of thing was not appropriate. He never really recovered from this, but his "issues" were limited to rage-banning kevans a couple times, repeatedly deleting his own line rider videos, yelling at me to demote himself and then changing his mind later, etc. I never dreamed he would actually sabotage anything, especially the livestream channel - that he actually set up himself, when I went inactive and they needed a channel that all the staff had access to. He didn't even mean to actually sabotage the stream, if you look at what he did in the OP, just to make me hate him so he would never be welcome here again.

@theacp127 wrote:these fits of rage put all of our stuff in too much of a security risk. I don't feel comfortable with some one who is randomly unreliable in charge of things. I don't have any problem with him coming back, but he'll have to be demoted permanently from any position that would give him means to sabotage anything.

Of course. Goes without saying.

Were any of y'all around when .org admin ilT deleted like half the site? If this is the worst that has ever happened in 8.5 years of IRTL/WRTL, we should count ourselves very lucky. It wasn't even intended to be an actual sabotage and all we lost was a stream site that we are planning to replace anyway. And even that was only lost for like, 5 days, until the recovery email activates. Shotoku could have deleted all of our youtube channels (LCC, IRTLTube, etc) if he had really had vicious intentions.

Last edited by rabid squirrel on Sun Sep 13, 2015 12:56 pm; edited 7 times in total

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@Fauxfyre wrote:maybe I did snap back at him [kevans] too much just now, but it was after several other recent things (as mentioned), and it was because he keeps bringing up something I've told him no about for at least the third time (the cotm idea), so I think I probably had too strong of a reflex against that. But then Opal came to defend him when he didn't need to, and he began arguing and accusing at me directly, which is about where you stepped in once that shit was in the chutes. So I'm not sure whether to apologize or to feel justified with getting agitated at Opal and to an extension Kevans.

@Fauxfyre wrote:I was trying to play along with him [kevans], but when I said I didn't think his thread was impressive because it was an off-topic thread for spammy messages, he takes it all personal and accuses me of hating him and every thing he does, then starts to try to get in a personal argument with me for what I can only assume to try to make me pissed off enough to do something I'm not supposed to. All because I tried to acknowledge his existence.

@Fauxfyre wrote:Okay, I've just about had the last I can deal of Kevans. He's been bitching at me all day of why we're going to be so restrictive of his streaming, and when I was streaming he said something completely uncalled for. Lankher asked if Sheldon was in, because he needed help with a track, and Kevans said, verbatim, "Sheldon will just look at your track and say 'I have no time to deal with peasants'".

Why is he even here after all this time anyways? Wasn't his bullshit "review" of Valence 2 completely uncalled for, on top of everything else he's done? I don't know if anybody else knows this, but he circumvented our allowance of him being on the stream by joining somebody's Skype call while they were streaming

@Fauxfyre wrote:Sorry, just had to really vent at that moment. Rabid has been talking to me about it today, and I'll explain some things here.

I have something to confess, I was the one that banned him last Winter, and it was mostly a personal issue between us and an impulse decision which is why I tried to hide it. I was largely ashamed with myself. This is why.

A week earlier, I told him I was giving up on our attempt to port LR to C++ for the first time, together. We were good friends at the time. The following was in a private chat on Steam. I told him the site was too dead at the time for me to feel it was worth the work. Then he asked the worst question one could ask, "Are you stopping because of that, or because you don't want to do it with me?" I was hurt by this, and suggested he think more about what he says to people before he speaks, because this is what causes some people to get angry at him.

He blew up in my face, way overreacted, swore at me, calling me a hypocrite, and altogether being a baby over that whole situation. I remained mostly silent and calm, putting up with his attitude, until he ragequit the conversation and left. A day later, I was still feeling terrible about the whole thing, and removed him from my friends list on Steam. About a week later, I still wasn't over it, especially since he wasn't being kind at all in the livestream chat on the site to me.

I was just so fed up with how bad he was causing me to feel that I banned him, with a vain hope he would just go away forever. I am sorry for not telling you guys.

Since then, he hasn't gotten over it, even though I got him back in the chatbox myself, which was the most I was going to do to atone for what I had done. I have been courteous to him ever since, but he has been antagonistic. Eventually, I thought we were both over it.

Then about a month ago, I decided I wanted to get back into computer programming. What did I want to make? Why not Line Rider? The day I started working on it, I posted a thread explaining my plans. Then, he attacked me in the livestream chat for all to see. He called me a "fucking hypocrite", which I don't completely understand, and then further abused me verbally for no good reason. I asked him if he was upset because I told him I didn't want to work on it before and he told me "this isn't about fucking line rider". After feeling bullied, I couldn't continue working on my program, too upset by what he told me. His attitude toward me has only worsened, and I can't even bring myself to be in the chatbox the same time as him anymore.

I've had the problem my whole life of having difficulty thinking about the good in life, and focusing only on the bad, which you guys have probably noticed. I feel as of late however, particularly since the incident, that I have matured in my thinking, especially in real life too. I cannot however, forgive Kevans for how he has treated me. Every time I see a post or message by him, an anger grows inside of me, and I have to distance myself. I recently took two weeks away, partly for vacation, and partly to calm down, but things haven't changed in my absence.

Right now I have a zero-tolerance policy for Kevans. Luckily for him, he's been on good behavior since last time he blew up on me. However, all I can think about when I think about WRTL is how I want him to leave, or do something to something to escalate the issue beyond more than a personal battle, and have a better reason do expel him from here. I do appreciate what he has done for the community, and will never take that back, but as a person, well, you've heard enough about that already.

I'm sorry about everything, but I hope you guys will believe me that I have matured very much in the last 9 months, and am a lot more stable mentally.

I'll be damned if this most recent interaction with kevans didn't trigger this insanity. (He said he skyped him to try to talk to him about the reddit thread)

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I really hate how I do this to people. I’m so used to this that I’ve stopped bothering trying to fight it. It’s never going away for me and I just hate it. I’ve failed my entire life trying to be a good person. Someone always gets hurt in my wake and I don’t mean it. I tell people to just politely tell me what I’m doing wrong. I don’t want to put the blame on shotoku, but he never talked. He just never stopped me. I say this so much to people to just stop me because I can’t stop myself and no one think or believes me. I don’t want to hurt people I can’t help it. I’ve done so many things to my friends I have in other groups. I’ve bought them games, donated to their patreons, bought them dinner when they couldn’t afford to eat for the night, I even convinced a kid I just met that day to not kill himself and I’ve been the one thing keeping him alive AND I STILL SOMEHOW HURT PEOPLE WITHOUT WANTING TO WHY CAN”T I DO THIS WHY CAN”T I DO LIFE WHY CAN”T PEOPLE JUST STOP ME I DON”T WANT TO HURT ANYONE. No one shows me that sort of caring. No one just waits for me to be calm and say “look, I’m sorry for getting angry, I just didn’t like how you were treating me”. No it’s always my fault. I don’t want to be the antagonist, but for some fucking reason I cna’t help but to be antagonistic and now I’m afraid this rant is making me look like i’m trying to show I’m the victim. I DON”T WANT TO BE A VICTIM I DON”T WANT TO BE THE VILLAIN I JUST DON”T WANT TO HURT PEOPLE AND NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY TO EXPLAIN I CAN”T HELP IT THERE”S ALWAYS SOMEONE. ALWAYS SOMEONE. PLEASE I CAN”T STOP. I CAN”T EVER STOP ON MY OWN.

I don’t even remember these fights he talked about. That’s how I know they were dumb fights because they’re not significant enough for me to remember. But the ban. That I remember because he lied to my face. And I put him like that. I made him hate me. I made him want me gone forever. I didn’t want this. I never wanted to cause this. And I do it anyways.

Do we know what situation he's talking about? I can't remember any time when I would've specifically accused him of anything, except for one time when I told him to calm down and take a deep breath because he was getting worked up over something irrelevant, but that had nothing to do with anything involving Kevans...? Assuming it was recent, that is. If it was a long time ago, I really don't care by this point.

@[senpai] kevans wrote: I really hate how I do this to people. I’m so used to this that I’ve stopped bothering trying to fight it. It’s never going away for me and I just hate it. I’ve failed my entire life trying to be a good person. Someone always gets hurt in my wake and I don’t mean it. I tell people to just politely tell me what I’m doing wrong. I don’t want to put the blame on shotoku, but he never talked. He just never stopped me. I say this so much to people to just stop me because I can’t stop myself and no one think or believes me. I don’t want to hurt people I can’t help it. I’ve done so many things to my friends I have in other groups. I’ve bought them games, donated to their patreons, bought them dinner when they couldn’t afford to eat for the night, I even convinced a kid I just met that day to not kill himself and I’ve been the one thing keeping him alive AND I STILL SOMEHOW HURT PEOPLE WITHOUT WANTING TO WHY CAN”T I DO THIS WHY CAN”T I DO LIFE WHY CAN”T PEOPLE JUST STOP ME I DON”T WANT TO HURT ANYONE. No one shows me that sort of caring. No one just waits for me to be calm and say “look, I’m sorry for getting angry, I just didn’t like how you were treating me”. No it’s always my fault. I don’t want to be the antagonist, but for some fucking reason I cna’t help but to be antagonistic and now I’m afraid this rant is making me look like i’m trying to show I’m the victim. I DON”T WANT TO BE A VICTIM I DON”T WANT TO BE THE VILLAIN I JUST DON”T WANT TO HURT PEOPLE AND NO MATTER HOW HARD I TRY TO EXPLAIN I CAN”T HELP IT THERE”S ALWAYS SOMEONE. ALWAYS SOMEONE. PLEASE I CAN”T STOP. I CAN”T EVER STOP ON MY OWN.

I don’t even remember these fights he talked about. That’s how I know they were dumb fights because they’re not significant enough for me to remember. But the ban. That I remember because he lied to my face. And I put him like that. I made him hate me. I made him want me gone forever. I didn’t want this. I never wanted to cause this. And I do it anyways.

Please just perma ban me from here, i cause too many problems

Well. That was a post.

I know I'm a big cause for the distress here, and I want to rectify that somehow, but I don't really know what would help. So I'll just say this.

Life isn't about protagonists and antagonists, or victims and villains. We're all just people. We like things and dislike things. We make each other laugh and cry and we piss each other off. We do lots of great things, some which are noticed and some which aren't. We do lots of terrible things, some of which are noticed and some which aren't. Some people we just click with, and we will almost always enjoy time with each other. Some people just grate on us, and we will virtually never get along. Sometimes we make someone's day. Sometimes we hurt someone.

As an admin of a dying website with people on it who are very different and are from very different places, I've been forced to interact with lots and lots of people that just grate on me. It's never pleasant. And I can't really say that people never intentionally hurt other people, because I've seen it happen all the time. But when you say you don't meant to hurt anyone, I believe you.

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@Traxis wrote:You're tellin' me someone like THIS gets mod, and I couldn't even get Power Rider? Jeez.

I can't tell if this is meant to be a joke, but if it is supposed to be it's in incredibly poor taste. You know full well why you never got anything. It's because you made an alternate identity and bragged about it? And were a dick to staff for months/years afterward?

You're still rather angry, I'd take a few more days off. I've made multiple posts in the past acknowledging everything to do with me on this subject, and I feel like everyone else knew it was a joke. And not one in poor taste either. Assumed as a joke, it was taking a jab at 12-14 year old me, nothing against the site. In that manner, yeah, the wording was bad, but it was more meant as "damn I really sucked if I couldn't get power but this [sarcastic]evil[/sarcastic] man can get mod." The 'jeez' was an extra notion toward this. Trust me, I know what the original post said, and I know what all the staff have done over the years. I've been here a while. I have nothing but respect for you guys, and I was just here to lighten the mood up, since I rarely had anything to do with the livestream and just wanted to break some of the stress.

I understand the pressure of being the top admin of this website, having to be profesional, but as you said, we're all humans. Lighten up and calm down. You gotta remember, as important of a site as this is, if you disapeared forever, and the site inevitably destroyed itself, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The community would be rather upset, but between reddit and Youtube and Skype, anyone who wanted to contact others would be able to do so. You need to stress out about this place a little less, it's not good for your health.

[[[And more off topic stuff, feel free to ignore this so the thread isn't derailed, PM me if you feel the need to reply, but damn, was I really a dick for years? I know my annoying shenanigans with SDemon and Traxis and Encentric Beast and all the other accounts caused some ruckus (and I fully understand why I never got Power, and I've expressed that I no longer care, multiple debates and stuff has declared Power completely useless, and even Elite was near useless with minor exceptions), but years? We've all grown up since then, that was 7 years ago, if anyone is still truly / actually mad at me, or has a shitty opinion of me for stuff back then, I would seriously like to have a chat with them and try to change that. I'm a cool guy ]]]

Edits after reading rabids second post:

So there's this:

Lankher asked if Sheldon was in, because he needed help with a track, and Kevans said, verbatim, "Sheldon will just look at your track and say 'I have no time to deal with peasants'".

which he got rather mad at. kevan used the word peasant, how could this be taken remotely serious? It was obviously a joke, it was to Lankher, KNOWN for being a troll, which is to say the intended audience would not be offended, and in reality, Kevan did nothing wrong. Through just these first quotes, it seems Kevan has done nothing wrong.

Then he asked the worst question one could ask, "Are you stopping because of that, or because you don't want to do it with me?"

By itself, this looks terrible on Kevans part, but knowing context, knowing that they had been annoyed with each other in the past, though only briefly as they 'were good friends at the time', and knowing Kevan is a defensive person (not to shit talk, it's simply a personality trait), that question should have been taken much less offensively. If he was actually kevans friend, he'd know kevan second guesses himself a lot, and would be able to respond with something like 'nah, it's not you man, you're a cool guy, I just have other things to do, maybe I'll come back if the site activity comes up and the work will be worth it'. Yes, kevan said something in a badly worded tone, but its the way he's posted for years, and it should be realized by now that he never means to be offensive, it's simply the way he speaks. It's an accent, in a way. Sure, you could force a different accent, but naturally, you have an accent, and it rarely changes without long periods of new culture.

By itself, kevans messed up, but in reality, kevans again did nothing but be himself, ask a question, and instead of being answered, was harshly judged.

He blew up in my face, way overreacted, swore at me, calling me a hypocrite, and altogether being a baby over that whole situation. I remained mostly silent and calm, putting up with his attitude, until he ragequit the conversation and left. A day later, I was still feeling terrible about the whole thing, and removed him from my friends list on Steam. About a week later, I still wasn't over it, especially since he wasn't being kind at all in the livestream chat on the site to me.

Now kevan is the bad guy. I'm not gonna try and defend him, saying Shotoku shouldn't have deleted him, could have tried to talk to him at a later date to calm him down. That's too late. At this point, I understand the hate for kevan. Now kevan is a 'bad' guy.

Since then, he hasn't gotten over it, even though I got him back in the chatbox myself, which was the most I was going to do to atone for what I had done. I have been courteous to him ever since, but he has been antagonistic. Eventually, I thought we were both over it.

Now this is the part that could be up for debate. What is antagonistic? As stated, kevans has a defensive personality. You could be mistaking that for being rude or trying to cause problems. Maybe not, but there's a chance.

After this, the gist is that kevans was a huge dick, Sho was 100% fed up, can't get over it, and can't deal with kevans. At this stage, there is no return. Kevan could give a million dollars to charity and Sho would still hate him. This is now the big problem. The 2 literally can't be together, despite having several common interests. If they come together, problems arise. Sho, being the more emotional one, will act less rationally towards these problems, and thus become the 'bigger problem'.

My opinion of this, though trust me I know how hard it is to change these things; Sho needs to calm down on the internet, not get super angry about stuff, even if people are verbally abusing him. Kevan needs to cuss less, not be so jumpy and hostile when things aren't going his way, and then everyone can be super happy and we can all go back to livestream goodness.

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@Hedgehogs4me wrote:Threadmaster Trax has requested a death. I shall snipe it from the window.

^ Sorry bro, the joke wasn't funny. I can see how it's funny to you, but an important factor in humor is timing and your timing was pretty poor.

Also (@ part 2), you can't say bad things about someone and justify it by being sarcastic. Especially on the internet, you should not only think about how you want to come across but also about how you COULD come across. I hope you understand.

I agree with the majority of your post though. Fueds like this tend to go towards a negative spiral in which both parties antagonize and objectify eachother. I guess this went wrong because we two sensitive people were involved. Neither party really is to blame. I think this all could've been avoided if they were aware of each others' sensitivity from the start.

@Rafael wrote:^ Sorry bro, the joke wasn't funny. I can see how it's funny to you, but an important factor in humor is timing and your timing was pretty poor.

Also (@ part 2), you can't say bad things about someone and justify it by being sarcastic. Especially on the internet, you should not only think about how you want to come across but also about how you COULD come across. I hope you understand.

I agree with the majority of your post though. Fueds like this tend to go towards a negative spiral in which both parties antagonize and objectify eachother. I guess this went wrong because we two sensitive people were involved. Neither party really is to blame. I think this all could've been avoided if they were aware of each others' sensitivity from the start.

what sarcasm? in that entire post i dont remember any part having sarcasm, I'm actually confused at that comment o.o

but yeah, i guess thats my end point really. both made bad choices, and if they just paid attention to each others personalities, everything would be great

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@Hedgehogs4me wrote:Threadmaster Trax has requested a death. I shall snipe it from the window.

But seriously I just don't like locking threads these days, we're so tight knit that it doesn't help a lot. And I get enough crap for being a supreme overlord already.

Also, I'm sorry Traxis, saying you were a dick for years is probably an overreaction. I've rarely seen you in the last 3 or so years, so I'm sure you're a cool guy in other places and have matured, as we all have. Just a knee-jerk reaction triggered by old memories. I have too many memories.

Anyway, I don't think the best course of action is to try to judge people from a one-sided series of quotes from a somewhat long time ago. The only reason I felt the need to post them was to hopefully provide context to what I am guessing triggered the rash actions shotoku took. Negative side effect of making kevans upset. (TBH I didn't think he'd see it...)

None of us will ever know who was "right" and "wrong" and debating it won't do much good. But you can see pretty clearly that shotoku felt wronged and had some serious hatred brewing, and that's all I was trying to point out.

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