June 25, 2009

Talk about rejuvenating the world towards Christ, I can only pray this to be the truth.

That's right folks, WorldNetDaily claims that the actual Ark of the Covenant to be revealed to the world this Friday by the patriarch of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia!

If this news is in fact true, then that would be yet another sign of the coming of Christ, from what I read. Even Muslims say it will be found near the end of times by the Mahdi – a messianic figure in Islam. It would be hard pressed for Atheists to deny that type of historical archeological evidence, but I am sure they will make it look easy.

Maybe Christianity hasn't jumped the shark, this is something that I have been praying for, a sign, for atheists to start believing the truth. After watching Indiana Jones, one can only wonder what may happen. Stay tuned.

UPDATE: In an e-mail received by WND from the webmaster of a church website in response to an inquiry about the truth of the matter.

"It is not going to happen so the world has to live with curiosity," said the statement, signed only "Webmaster" in response to the WND inquiry.

The webmaster statement described the tempest as being caused either because of a translation mistake or "a slip [of the] tongue from the patriarch."

Even Muslims say it will be found near the end of times by the Mahdi...

Odd... I thought it was the Fremen who spoke of Mahdi (Paul Atreides)...? I guess my mythologies are running together...

Seriously...

If the Ark really is revealed, then it will only prove that Hebrews really had a relic they hauled around. What should be more distressing to you is the fact that these non-Levite Ethiopians are claiming access to it, when we all know that any non-Levite who touches the Ark instantly dies. Given the alleged mystical power of the Ark, I'm surprised it wasn't found in some country where there is no war, famine, or pestilence, as opposed to Ethi-fucking-opia... Sorry... I just got carried away with the irony which constantly surrounds your all-powerful god...

What else? Well, those stone tablets had better be inside, and they'd better be available for scientific testing, and they'd damned well better be inscribed with the ten commandments as depicted in at least one of the three different places in the Pentateuch. My guess -- and this is just a guess -- is that the tablets (assuming they appear, and are inspected) will be run-of-the-mill stone tablets, with crudely hammered inscriptions, and examination of them will not result in anyone's mysterious death, or melting, as it were.

Far more likely, I fear, is that if the "Ark" is unveiled, it will turn out to be a replica based on descriptions in the bible and elsewhere, and it will not serve to do anything other than polarize all parties in this already divisive topic.

Also as expected, I am sure the presuppositions of the scientists and Atheists will not change with this news.

Remember this gem:...

Your presupposition is that there is no God; therefore, no matter what I might present to you to show His existence, you must interpret it in a manner consistent with your presupposition: namely, that there is no God. If I were to have the Ark of the Covenant itself, you'd say it was a replica based on descriptions in the bible and elsewhere...

If I were to have the Ark of the Covenant itself, you'd say it was a replica based on descriptions in the bible and elsewhere...

Putting the cart before the horse, here, aren't you? I didn't say it would be a replica, I said it's far more likely that it will turn out to be a replica than the original. I should expect similar skepticism from you, if you were at all honest, for much the same reason. A replica "Ark" serves no purpose but to cast doubt and shame onto your cause, and according the the WND article, "the actual Ark has been kept in one church, but to defend the treasure, a copy was placed in every single church in Ethiopia."

...so the first thing we can say for sure is that there are fakes.

No, I'm perfectly open to it being the actual Ark, but as I said, this is a problem for you, not for me. Relics and archaeological finds are necessarily common in the "cradle of civilization," and I don't dispute that the bible is a collection of the mythology of an existing culture, including many stories which are based on historical fact (even if they may have been embellished, or augmented to fit the mythology). Having this one artifact exist and be found is no dilemma for anyone other than those who believe it mystically powerful. As I said, if a non-Levite touches it, he should instantly die, yes?

Prudent skepticism is a virtue, and the greater the claim, the greater the scrutiny. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, remember? If some crazy magic happens when the "Ark" is unveiled, we can renew talks concerning the existence of magic, but if not, it's just a box some ancient culture carried around, thinking they'd trapped god inside.

Put it this way, Dan, what if the LDS chose to unveil the golden plates on Saturday? Would you not be skeptical of such a claim? Even if they were revealed, would you suddenly embrace Mormonism?

Give me a break. I'd be just as skeptical of such a claim on the part of the LDS as I am on the part of the Orthodox Church of Ethiopia. You're the one exhibiting inconsistency, if you challenge my skepticism.

I came on here to say the same thing: would you, Dan, suddenly convert to Mormonism if Joseph Smith's seer stones were revealed?

What's that?

"No," you say?

Well then, your presupposition is that there is no Moroni; therefore, no matter what I might present to you to show his existence, you must interpret it in a manner consistent with your presupposition: namely, that there is no Moroni.

OK Dan. Your next goal is to anticipate our responses so you don't have to say "touche" anymore.

It's easy: after you write a post, just replace "Jesus" and "God" and "The Bible" with "Moroni" and "Joseph Smith" and "Book of Mormon" etc and see what YOUR response would be. That's probably a decent prediction of what ours will be.

Stan is correct, all this would say (granting for a moment that it’s true) is that in fact the Hebrews did carry this box around with them. You seem to be looking at it as if it would prove the existence of God – when all it really does is add historical weight to the bible.

We have all sorts of historical documents, relics, and structures from the Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians, but none of it proves that Ra or Zeus exists. Only that people actually believed that crap.

When they find 6000 year old skeletal remains gripping a petrified apple core and a snake (complete with what appears to be the components of a once functioning voice box) around it’s neck, you be sure to let me know…..

Not only that, but if we do find that inside are the actual factual 10 commandments, (etched ever so nicely in stone with hammer and chisel, like God couldn’t have used a laser etch) we’ll have found God’s first act of plagiarism from the God’s of Egypt, copy write “Book of the Dead”. But who has the rhetorical prowess, today and in yesteryear, to stand up against Hebrew attorneys and win that case?

We unhesitatingly agree. Long before this definitive work documenting these problems was published, Kent Hovind was made aware of them by us. Two of our senior staff, Ken Ham and Mark Looy, pleaded with Kent in our US office to distance himself (and hence Biblical creation) from Wyatt’s claims. At this meeting, Kent did not even consider for a moment doing this.

Well, the only source for this "news item" was WND, which isn't exactly known for honest, factual reporting...

I'm guessing that only one (or a few lurkers) person here actually believes anything found on WND, and even he was a little skeptical of this claim (though clearly giddy as a schoolgirl at the prospect of "proof" of god's existence).

No ark, no melting, just dead Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson. And here it was almost a trifecta...

I am sure that "historical weight" would be a mere feather to you also. If true, and easily determined as authentic. plus the Ten Commandments are indeed in tact and still there, that would be Howard Huge dude.

Wait a new thought. When I said "easily determined as authentic" that just placed science as the authority again. So maybe, I shouldn't care if this is real or not. It will not effect my Salvation and I am convinced, at this point, it will not effect the Salvation of anyone here either.

I need to stop looking for outside sources to help Atheists find Sanctification. What we already have should be enough for someone's salvation. Plead with God to help you understand.

"I need to stop looking for outside sources to help non-Mormons find Sanctification. What we already have should be enough for someone's salvation. Plead with God to help you understand. Step one read the Book of Mormon, if not affected, repeat step one."

Inspiration

"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." ~Ronald Reagan----"A great many of those who debunk traditional values have in the background values of their own which they believe to be immune from the debunking process." ~C.S. Lewis, The Abolition of Man (1944)----"If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to Hell over our bodies. If they will perish, let them perish with our arms about their knees. Let no one go there unwarned and unprayed for." ~C.H. Spurgeon----”Prayer is not overcoming God's reluctance, but laying hold of His willingness.” ~Martin Luther----”Occam's razor states that one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything, however, the simple theory must be able to account for or explain what needs explaining. It's not enough to have a simpler theory if you can't account for anything. Though we shouldn't add entities beyond what's needed, we also should not subtract entities beyond what's needed.” ~Paul Manata----Until the Holy Spirit regenerates the sinner and brings him to repentance, his presuppositions will remain unaltered. And as long as the unbeliever's presuppositions are unchanged a proper acceptance and understanding of the good news of Christ's historical resurrection will be impossible. ~Dr. Bahnsen----“One of the most pernicious falsehoods ever to be almost universally accepted is that the scientific method is the only reliable way to truth” ~Professor Richard H. Bube, Stanford University----Rules of atheism"Science":

Theists will consider natural causes.Atheists will ONLY consider natural causes.

Theism posits an eternal mind followed by contingent matter.

Atheism posits matter followed by contingent minds.----"Evolution is the tinfoil hat used by atheists to keep God out of their brainwaves" ~Bevets

"It is not the duty of science to defend the theory of evolution, and stick by it to the bitter end" ~I. L. Cohen----from City of Angels

Seth: You're an excellent doctor.Maggie: How do you know?Seth: I have a feeling.Maggie: That's pretty flimsy evidence.Seth: Close your eyes. It's just for a moment.[touches her hand]Seth: What am I doing?Maggie: You're... touching me.Seth: Touch. How do you know?Maggie: Because, I feel it.Seth: You should trust that. You don't trust it enough.

"Ask the poor. They will tell you who the Christians are." ~Mahatma Gandhi

"Some want to live within the sound of church or chapel bells, I want to run a rescue shop within the yard of hell." ~C.T. Studd

"You don't have a soul, you are a soul. You have a body." ~C.S. Lewis

"Waiting is not wasting when you are waiting on the Lord. God works while we wait." ~unknown

"Since the bible defines a Christian as one who knows God, would you consider yourself to have been a Christian according to the biblical definition?" ~Thomas Bridges

Fun Quotes

Quasar: That's like saying: "look, none of the grasshoppers evolved fire-resistant skin when I put the flamethrower to them! Evolution must be false!"