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8 Friends with Benefits Rules You Must Obey

Following
up my
piece yesterday on "The 4 Stages of Every Friends with Benefits
Relationship", today I'm going to get into the nuts and
bolts of running your casual relationships by giving you 8 friends with
benefits rules that are absolutely mandatory
you follow... to not have everything go to hell in a hand basket, that
is.

Friends with benefits are lots of fun, but these relationships are
also loaded with the potential to get messy on the turn of a dime. All
it takes is a little bending of the rules, and you can very quickly
find yourself:

About the Author: Chase Amante

Chase woke up one day in 2004 tired of being alone. So, he set to work and read every book he could find, studied every teacher he could meet, and talked to every girl he could talk to to figure out dating. After four years, scads of lays, and many great girlfriends (plus plenty of failures along the way), he launched this website. He will teach you everything he knows about girls in one single program in his Mastery Package.

Comments

Nice article, great as always. I have a couple of questions for you, and it's a specific situation with a girl though relevant to the content of this article.

I have a girl with whom I was in a 5 month long FWB with two summers ago and we had a good sex life, and I tried to get in touch with her again out of the blue, using the "deleting your phone number" strategy from the boards. Lo and behold, she responded, and just last night we went out on a date of sorts...had hookah and hot dogs and caught up on things.

It's been a while and I had no idea where she lives now, and I live an hour out of my city at the moment, so I proposed we met in downtown (which turned out to be an hour away from her place also in a different direction). Her vibe was very flirty, bubbly, and very much akin to talking about a whole lot of things, especially work. At the same time, she seemed really stressed out about work and had a LOT of things going on, and doesn't want to be distracted. I ran the date reasonably well, she expressed good vibes with me...leaning into the table 75% of the time, keeping conversations going, kicking me and punching me a few times, and hanging out close. I touched her legs a bunch of times around the knees and she didn't mind it at all. By the end of the night our vibe was much less, partly because we were both tired and I'm not sure how much else there was to catch up on, really.

She also asked about my personal life over the last year and a half (through which I've mostly been in a relationship) and I asked about hers (she's not a commitment type, but has had a few FWBs that all lasted a few months). She seemed very, very curious about my time with my ex-gf, and I only hinted at a few things about her, mainly that she was like XX and it was a good experience in XX ways. A couple of times she also subtly remarked on our own time in bed together, comments like "yeah...you were probably really dominant in bed with your ex," and "remember that time you were on top of me and you said/did..."

She didn't want to go home with me last night, to her place. I proposed three times at different instances (using a yes ladder to deduce she was having a good time with me) that we go back and watch tv for bit or just hang out, and that I'm going out of town in the morning and can't stay. I also persisted with my requests, ramping up the second half hour later to "but if you're so stressed out right now, I can help you relax for a bit..." and the third fifteen minutes later to "remember what we had last summer? do you want to have that again? What say you we do that?"

Her rough responses:
- She has a lot going on and doesn't have the time to have fun or relax right now, at least until something in work next week is over.
- In response to watching a show, she said "how about you watch some of the show and then we can watch it maybe next time?"
- She said "maybe next time, but not this time..."
- She lives with her brother as a roommate and seems hesitant to bring a guy back to her place.

At the very end, there was a bunch of mis-communication and the overall energy between us felt low. We both walked to the subway, and on the way I asked her about what we had and if she'd like to do it again (yes, I asked again, not smooth). When clarifying, she said that she liked what we had and always thought of us as friends (even though we were also fucking on the side). She also apologized for cutting me off coldly at the end of that FWB, as she felt it was getting kind of serious then and she doesn't like commitment. At the very end, when we hugged goodbye, I attempted to kiss her, and she dodged it twice and then said "chill out man..." as she walked away, and I left immediately after. I texted her two hours later "not my smoothest moment, good luck through next week," and she replied with "thanks, was great to see you! =D."

I realize I did a number of things wrong last night...by not setting up the right frames and buying into hers, by not pulling at a high point, and screwing up the end (basically laying out my cards with restarting a FWB) and seeming desperate and un-sexy when I attempted to kiss her. I still want to open this up again as a FWB, if it's salvageable.

Did I shoot myself in the foot and will this prevent me from getting back with her, by buying into her friends frame last night?
How do I sleep with her again?
Is she still a viable option?

Basically, I'd like to know your opinion on how you think I should handle this.

I was thinking of texting her later in the next week (seven days from now) to see how her schedule is over the weekend, and if she'd be down to hang out at my place or hers. I think she'd be hesitant to come to me since it's so far, so I'm more concerned with how to get her in bed at her place, if this is still possible. What do you think?

I think your biggest mistake was the terrible logistics. An hour out of the way in each direction. You weren't making things easy for her. All the other stuff didn't help either. You got needy and may have shot yourself in the foot as a result. Good luck though.

Like Jack notes, logistics don't help, and the neediness makes a big mess. In this kind of situation, you want to just hang back, play it very cool, and let her chase if she wants it. You're not going to convince her to hop back into bed by chasing yourself.

My gut is contacting her a week later is too soon. I'd put it on ice for 2 weeks and let her wonder what happened to the needy version of Ozzo who seemed so desperate to see her after a week. Follow-up's challenging because you already chased hard to see her and acted needy and clingy when she specifically noted she broke things off because of that before.

Rather than try and get her on another date, which is all wrong for this kind of a relationship and history, I might suggest having her join you on some kind of a fun outing with the potential for sex - outdoors is perfect if you're somewhere warm right now, but if you're snowed in or it's cold, you probably can't do a camping trip / night at the beach. You're not going to get to her place, and you live 2 hours away from her, so that makes things really difficult too.

I think my top recommendation here would really just be "find a friend with benefits who lives closer to you." Probably not what you want to hear, since it's clear you like the girl a lot, but this one's problematic for a lot of reasons, and you're really better off finding someone new. I was going to suggest inviting her to a party, but she's pretty cool on you already, which means there's a good chance you end up watching jealously as she pairs off with someone new, so that one's not such a good idea on second thought. I'd move on - you can always circle back later and check in with her a month or two down the road.

I can see these as rules for keeping casual relationships casual, which I totally understand is what most guys want. Still, I think it's a little much to say that they're mandatory.

What I mean is that I personally don't mind a more involved relationship forming, because any woman I'm sleeping with on a FWB basis is going to understand up front that I don't do exclusivity. The minute she wants to equate a little romance with not seeing others is the minute I'd leave her.

Again, I'm not really railing against the article. It's probably just fine for someone that sees involvement/romance/love => exclusivity/cohabitation/marriage. I'm just saying it might not be mandatory, or applicable to everyone.

If your experienced then you can bend any of the rules in pick-up/ seduction/ game, etc. But these rules are damn good and well worth following for beginner/intermediate guys. It took the community a decade to figure out this shit. Chase has summarized it all nicely.

Just quickly, I'd like to say that this blog and your book are EXCELLENT! They've completely changed the way I look at not only women, but all social interactions. I now feel like I'm in control, and I have you to thank for that.

On to my question, and yes, it is very unrelated to this post. I just wanted to comment in the newest one to ensure a response.

What is your opinion on hats? When I go out I tend to wear a baseball cap (backwards usually) or beanie at all times. This is because I am 20 years old and I am already going bald. I know my thin hair is unattractive, especially at my age, so I just cover it up. As well, when you recommend getting an interesting/stylish haircut, it obviously doesn't really apply to me. Of course, if I was older, I'd pull a Jason Statham and embrace it, but I don't think that's an option yet. What would you do if you were in this position? And, if hats are fine, what kinds do you think work best?

I used to wear an Indiana Jones-style fedora from the late '90s through the mid-2000s. Fedoras became a fad in the late 2000s, and shaming people wearing them also became a fad, so I left off wearing them when it suddenly became something everyone else was doing... it stops being cool when it stops being rare.

Baseball caps and beanies I personally find too scrubby / not classy looking... I haven't seen anyone I'd consider good with women wearing them in real life (aside from some Hollywood stars, who could get women if they were dressed up in gorilla suits)... if I had to pick a hat to wear now, I'd go with a poor boy hat or a flat cap. These look pretty stylish, and they're not overly fad-ish right now.

The other route you can go is just shaving it all off - I've seen some studies of women's preferences where women generally state the impression that bald men are better lovers and have higher testosterone levels. With the right (good) fashion to offset it, you can make the bald image look quite powerful. Just think of "bald = tough", so make sure to offset it with clothes that make you look refined, rather than brutish.

Just own it and shave it off. I started thinning early and shaving early. It's only a matter of time anyway, so best to just embrace it and learn to be confident about it. You can eventually use it in a self-deprecating way for humor in certain situations.

You might lose out on some chicks who must have a thick head of hair to play with, but good game and style will generally overcome this. Especially if you're in shape.

Early 20's you can pull off a ball cap if you're in a more casual setting and its clean and the rest of your style is on point.

Other caps are good conversation starters too though, so find some that fit your style.

Ditch the beanies.

Also, it has been my experience that some chicks really dig bald guys. I've had more than a few random women ask me if they can rub it. Talk about a direct open!

1) Ive been having problems with turning conversations to sounding normal. Its almost like an interview where i ask all the questions then people answer. how do i have a non-interview conversation?

In terms of questions (deep diving) vs statements (me talking), what is the right amount of questions to ask and statements to give in relation to how much the girl is asking questions or giving statements?

Also, i asked about an article on "Body Language to Avoid" in a previous comment and you stated that you put it on the article queue.

im not being pushy/demanding but just wondering if that article is in the works. You have a lot to do so im not rushing you, just asking. Thanks!

I've never sat down to come up with an exact number for how many questions to ask before you switch to statements, but it's somewhere around 4 or 5 or so - if it's just question, answer, question, answer, question, answer, it's too much; you've got to break it up with cold reads and statements about yourself. Read through "The Conversationalist and the "conversation example article - it's all there.

I do have the bad body language topic noted down; it's #393 on my list; looking right at it. I can't give you an exact date for when that'll go up, because the nature of writing is that I'll write on whatever I feel inspired to write on, otherwise it's a drag, and the same with the other authors (sometimes they work off the list as well). So, it'll go up at some point - just when that might be, I cannot say!

Thank you for your comments and advice on my post in the forums! This article could not have been more perfectly timed for my current situation. I am happy to update that I did take the girl down my hall to bed another two times, with the third being the loudest she has ever been with me. =) She mentioned that no guy has ever taken care of her that quickly before (orgasm in under ten minutes), yet ironically I have yet to orgasm with her because she gets worn out after just one... I have always held back in hopes I could get more out of her (like your 2006 girl in Europe— my dream goal), but then she has to stop. This has lead her to feeling like she is bad in bed, and I have a hard time assuring her that that is not the case. I try to play it as the perfect reason to have more sex soon down the road. She says the situation we have is backward from her typical experience with guys, which I have to say actually makes me feel quite proud after all. I almost cannot believe I achieved this in just two months after getting serious with GC training... and two weeks after handing in the dreaded V card at that.

We have communicated significantly less since our third time sleeping together (now about ten days ago) than we did beforehand, but we just randomly ran into each other last night, and she was particularly warm and excited to see me. She even asked if I was busy, but as it stood I was in a hurry. Now that I appear to be firmly in a casual FWB-style relationship, do I still apply the same chase-frame mentality as in a seduction? She has not asked to meet up in the last ten days, and I also do not want to make any gesture that would appear "coupley". Do I just let her make the next move to get us together again and let it rest otherwise...?

Great to hear on the girl - you're doing well. Unless she's a really spunky, take-charge kind of girl, she's not going to invite herself over or ask you to come over, especially not early on into the relationship. "Are you busy right now" is usually the closest you'll get, and because you said you were (which is fine), you've discouraged this behavior... it's now even more on you to invite if you want it to happen.

So, don't want for her to chase - she already tried! (and it didn't work out) It's up to you to invite her over if you want another round.

Hey,
So a friend and I are competing for this girl. We are going about it very civilized and adultlike. Anyway, I was meant to have a date with her this friday and he was meant to have a date with her next monday. I have better skills with women than my friend, but I just realized that I have a flight to another state that evening and i'm getting back monday night. I am going to have to reschedule to next friday, because she leaves the country on the 26. I was wondering what I should text her to reschedule without sounding desperate? Also, will it hurt my chances if he's already met with her. He plans on hooking up with her, but I don't think she'll let him. I have no idea though. Any advice?

I just stumbled across your blog and I must say they are great rules to follow by however my fwb has broken some of those rules. Yes I am a woman. About a year and a half ago I met this great guy and we decided to just stay fwb. After about 4 months of it I cut it off and walked away because I was starting to have feelings and I know that's a big no no. So I had a brief relationship with someone and needless to say he just didn't satisfy me so we ended things. Well it's been just over a yr since I've seen my fwb and I contacted him yesterday to see if he was still single and he said yes and said it was his bday and had some friends over and that I should come over. At that point I should have said no but I didn't and I went. Up until then I never met any of his friends. It was strictly fwb. Anyhow, when I got there he kissed me and told me he missed me and it was good to see me. Then when introducing me to his friends he jokingly told everyone I was his wife. That really caught me off guard since at this point all I want from him is sex. He proceeded to ask me all the bonding questions like how have I been how's work and what's new stuff. Not to mention it's 4th of July weekend and watched fireworks from his deck and had his arm around me. After his friends left and we did the deed I was going to leave but asked me to stay and rubbed my back till I fell asleep. I got up early and left and he kissed me before I left. I txt him to let him know I made it home and thanked him for the fun and he replied with he had fun too and he had missed it. I'm not sure what his intentions are now. Now that I strictly only want fwb could he possibly want more? Only reason I went back to him was we have great sexual chemistry he is incredible in bed and now no one can satisfy me like he can.

Been a lurker on GC for a while -- am 20 years old ('bout to turn the good old 21, so I'm about 10 years younger than you) and I'm currently a college student. Definitely am looking forward to purchasing your books later down the road, after I have enough money saved up. Moreover, I recommend this website above all the other ones -- for a whole host of reasons, most of which I'm aware you're aware of.

(;

Firstly, as a big proponent of Stoicism, I'm all-for seeing how the world as it *is* rather than how it *should* be -- which includes my *own* nature as a human being and as a man, as well. Which is why I appreciate a number of articles on GC but /particularly/ yours.

I'm having my first "real" FWB soon (picked her up online, with a bit of your help ;) and this girl seems like the "Shy, Excited" type you wrote about -- and she's also confided (told?) me she's had 5 sexual partners, the majority of whom have been FWB-type relationships. Like you, as well, I'm a very empathetic person -- almost too much, at times.

At this point, I'm not emotionally attached -- and she's definitely the one chasing -- but I'm wondering: *rationally*, I'm aware that this girl, by all means, should have a non-exclusive relationship with me (and obviously, me with her). However, *emotionally*, it seems as though since this is my first /real/ FWB sorta-deal, I feel a bit... dissapointed? Wrong? When I know that a woman is going to be non-exclusive with me.

Not to toot my own horn (trying to be objective):
- I'm (and so is she) Korean-American, so I (and she) come from very traditionalist backgrounds
- 6' tall, which is decent height for an East Asian man
- pumped my value sky-high -- I try to be as objective as possible when filtering advice; I've yet to see advice (in any sphere, not just pickup) as corroborated as yours; attainbility has been consciously corrected for, as well (;
- etc, etc

So I ask: is this an ephemeral, emotional hump that most men have when having their first FWB? Or is it something more fundamental and deeper than that?

I'm a female who recently began a FWB situation with a guy. I chose a FWB due to my time constraints and the fact that I don't want to bring unnecessary drama in someone else's life, as I have a lot of it. We have been uninvolved about anything other than the basics, like where we work, our ages, etc., up until recently. There just never has been time to chat much other than to just keep each other incredibly horny all day in text and phone calls... and then hooking up as soon as possible.
We've hooked up several times now. We just met a couple of weeks ago and have hooked up 10 times already. We have marathon sex sessions... usually all nighters. He's told me I can stay the night if I want several times, but I've never taken him up on it... I usually duck out around 3am or so after a quick nap. He has told me that he is addicted to sex with me... and I'm the best he's ever had. I admit it, it is pretty fucking amazing.
4 nights ago, we finally found out each others' last names. 2 nights ago, he says... "I realized today I don't know anything about you". So we actually had a conversation, playing 20 questions... just to see if we could make it thru more than one drink without attacking each other. We talked about our favorite things... music, movies, sports, etc.... and found we share the same interests. Like scary same. Then we started making out, ending up in the bedroom where we devoured each other. After round two, he suddenly starts sharing important things about his life to me... I'm talking major events that most would find to be deal-breakers. I told him I appreciated him opening up to me and that I still was his buddy. Then he proceeded to make slow, passionate love to me... not our norm... we've always been fairly rough with each other and literally try to fuck each other until the other taps out.
Does this mean that he is trying to start a relationship with me? I do like him, think he's hot as fuck and everything but not sure that I would be open to a relationship. He is 10 yrs younger than me. I have a graduate degree and a very successful career, own my own home, two cars and have a child. He has an apartment, did not go to college and works at a car wash. I know that is all superficial in the long run, but I can't help but think about it.
Advice please?

I don't agree...
I'm a girl... When I have FWB, I don't really think about falling in love with them. Even if we go out with friends, go to dinner, if we go to his place, etc. That doesn't really bother me, because we're friends. And we can be friends and go out as friends. And only change that in the bedroom or when we're alone ;)
My actual FWB also kisses me in front of his best friend, when we're at home. But it's cool for me, because it's really hard to make me fall in love with someone.

Help!!!
I have been in a friends with benefits situation for about six months. He calls just talk sporadically and he has never gone a day without texting me. We spent our separate birthdays together and exchanged gifts. It's so weird. He hasn't spoke of commitment but neither have I and he hasn't invited me to his place and I have bought it up. I come to his job sometimes and there are time that we don't have sex. I disappear sometimes amd he just keeps calling. I don't know what this is. I'm so confused and now I kind of like him.

Seeing as you have a lot of knowledge regarding this area, I thought I would ask what you would do in my situation, but please bare with me as I might chatter on.

The FWB I had until recently started 5 years ago. It started out as a casual fling but I soon learnt that she really liked me and wanted more but because I had been hurt and deceived in the past, I had built up a wall to my feelings and emotions. We carried on as a FWB situation for about a year and then we started getting more serious. When I mean serious, I mean travelling the country and going places we both hadn't been before and also going on holiday together. I had spent time at her families house for Christmas and we always got each other something for Valentines day.

Then after 2 years, she almost died. It was then I realised I had feelings for her and wanted more than just FWB. She told me that she wanted to try being just friends first and see where it would go from there. That did hit my quite hard as I knew how she felt about me at the beginning but she said she got over me. Yet the FWB situation didn't stop until recently as 2 months ago. She told me that she wants to be in a relationship and that we should just be friends, she said that 3 months ago but all FWB stopped only 2 months ago. I went away for a weekend with some friends and she changed over the weekend. My initial thoughts was that she had met someone, even though we did sleep together after that weekend away.

She has said that no matter what, she always wants me in her life as her friend as we have been through so much together (more than most real friends do to be honest). I said that I can try and be a friend but at this moment I would need to take a step back and lose my feelings for her so that I wouldn't interfere with her moving on (if she really wants to)

With how much has gone on between us and everything we did together, do you think she has run away from the situation (she has a habit of running away from problems in her life) or that she generally wants to be with someone else? The full story would take an age to write but I've tried to be as informative as possible