A rapist rapes 50 people each year but he donates to charity once in a while.
That makes him neutral,correct?

Except for that to make sense the whole of Christianity would have to be a single person. Obviously this is not the case.

I know a Christian who is the meanest bitch you'll ever meet. Does this mean her husband, another Christian and the nicest man I've ever had the fortune of knowing, is also an incredibly mean person simply for this tenuous link?

For that to make sense then you'd also be a facist, because Hitler ate food. The link's just as shoddy.

I think everyone should be able to believe what they want. I've never really experience the whole 'shoving it down our throats' thing. The closest would be being spoken to by some missionairies on the way home from university. They asked if I was religious at all and I just told them I was an atheist and that was it.

My friend is pretty strict christian, and although she believe that certain people are going to hell (me being one of them), it doesn't bother me. She isn't shoving her religion down my throat, it just kind of bothers me that her believing some of her friends are going to hell actually made her cry.

I only really come across religion on the internet on here, and there's one main thing pissing me off at the moment. In an interview or something, someone might say 'Thank god blahblahblah'. Then in come a load of atheists "OMG SHUT UP GOD HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT FOR FUCK SAKE STOP SHOVING YOUR RELIGION DOWN MY THROAT"

I believe in God, but i don't take the bible seriously or believe in creationism. 9/10 religious people I know do not take the stories from the Bible/Qu'ran/ other religious texts seriously. As for the argument that religion causes violence, it is usually not the religion that does this, but peoples perception of the religion.

12,000,000 people in the United States still believe in some form of Creationism, regardless of the label you want to slap on it... To say that religion does not help spread ignorance is completely ridiculous.

I think the bashing of religion could use some toning-down on Facepunch. It makes me reluctant to be more open about my Pagan beliefs, despite the fact that most of the hate is directed towards monotheistic religions, like Christianity.

I'm not saying that religion doesn't spread ignorance, but it's the people who perceive the texts as promoting ignorance and that the ignorance as right and just that are at fault. I will say however that there a few passages in religious books that say very dumb and ignorant shit, but what do you expect from people who lived 2000 years ago or whatever. Religious texts are definitely not to be taken literally in my opinion. Also, I don't live in the United States, so I never encounter anyone who is stupid enough to blatantly deny humans evolved.

Of course you are too hard on religion. You just try to find cons with religion and you don't see the obvious pros. Religion does for instance give people a sense of fellowship and structure. Religion is also the source of each society's moral. For example, Christianity is the source of much of of the western societies' moral. You shall not steal, lie etc. Another interesting thing is that we in Sweden (I'm a Swede) have a strong work-spirit from the Lutheran moral.

Every point in the quote can be related to basic humanity instead of religion. Religion does give people a sense of belonging (the fellowship thing quoted), sure, but so do many, many, many other things too. Ethics and laws? The evolution of human thinking and the birth of legal systems, which, by the way, did not stem from religious sources.

Attributing a whole country's productivity to a specific category of Christianity, not even to Christianity, let alone religion in general? Now that's just being an asshole to all the non-Lutheran people in Sweden.

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to be all high and mighty here. I respect people who are religious, despite being an atheist. What I don't respect, however, are statements which portray pros that are utter and complete bullshit.

obviously we evolved from god knows what and the big bang happened, but science tells us mass and energy can't be created or destroyed, so every particle of every substance in the entire universe has existed eternally

assuming that's true then why is it unreasonable to believe there's a divine creator that's always existed? someone or something that is beyond physical limits?

The current leading theory of how the big bang came about is that there were equal amounts of matter and anti-matter in the initial phase of the big bang and that there was no such thing as space or time before the actual big bang. Equal amounts of anti matter and matter would = 0, or nothing, and not nothing as in empty space or a vacuum, but nothing as in non existent (which is a bit hard for our brains to comprehend)

Either way, to simply jump to the conclusion that god has to have caused it therefor god exist is completely absurd and just demonstrates how eager religion is to take advantage of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Science will always progress and continue to improve upon our understanding of the universe while religion seems to be content enough with just screaming "god" to everything we dont know an answer to yet.

While I don't believe in God or Christianity as a religion, I accept it as a vital part of our Christian society and the backbone of morality here. I get irritated when bigoted Christian in the Deep South bicker about gays being satanic and all that though.

10th February 2012
Last edited by cccritical; 10th February 2012 at 11:20PM.
Post #134

The current leading theory of how the big bang came about is that there were equal amounts of matter and anti-matter in the initial phase of the big bang and that there was no such thing as space or time before the actual big bang. Equal amounts of anti matter and matter would = 0, or nothing, and not nothing as in empty space or a vacuum, but nothing as in non existent (which is a bit hard for our brains to comprehend)

Either way, to simply jump to the conclusion that god has to have caused it therefor god exist is completely absurd and just demonstrates how eager religion is to take advantage of ignorance and lack of knowledge. Science will always progress and continue to improve upon our understanding of the universe while religion seems to be content enough with just screaming "god" to everything we dont know an answer to yet.

I've always had the big bang explained to me that all matter and energy was condensed into a space the size of a pinprick and it just exploded outward, but even going on what you're telling me, every ounce of mass has existed since before time, correct? something else existing for longer than time itself isn't very far-fetched, especially if it's an all-powerful ethereal being

I see nothing wrong with this since most of the time the thread involves Creationism trying to be taught in school or something similar. Sometimes it comes out of no where but usually it actually is on topic.

Basically, belief is a powerful thing. As with any powerful thing, people want to manipulate it really really badly to get people to think what they want.

So I may have a copy of the Bible that says gay people are the scourge of humanity, and people may listen to me, but that doesn't mean the actual bible said that.

Plus, when I have to clarify points in the Bible for people who don't understand them, I am basically telling them my interpetation of what I have read and saying that's what the Bible meant to say. This would defeat the purpose of the Bible, as it is meant to be able to be interpreted into whatever the reader wants it to be.

Basically, this means everything evil that has ever been backed up by the Bible is just evil people justifying what they have done with what they thought they saw. It's like looking into a mirror and seeing what you want to see - and for that reason, the only thing we can blame all these terrible things on is the people themselves, who are crazy enough to follow through on all things they thought they saw in the Bible.

Those people are psychopaths to begin with. All they want is a vent for all the things they want to do. If it weren't the Bible, it would be anything else you can think of.

Basically, belief is a powerful thing. As with any powerful thing, people want to manipulate it really really badly to get people to think what they want.

So I may have a copy of the Bible that says gay people are the scourge of humanity, and people may listen to me, but that doesn't mean the actual bible said that.

Plus, when I have to clarify points in the Bible for people who don't understand them, I am basically telling them my interpetation of what I have read and saying that's what the Bible meant to say. This would defeat the purpose of the Bible, as it is meant to be able to be interpreted into whatever the reader wants it to be.

Basically, this means everything evil that has ever been backed up by the Bible is just evil people justifying what they have done with what they thought they saw. It's like looking into a mirror and seeing what you want to see - and for that reason, the only thing we can blame all these terrible things on is the people themselves, who are crazy enough to follow through on all things they thought they saw in the Bible.

Those people are psychopaths to begin with. All they want is a vent for all the things they want to do. If it weren't the Bible, it would be anything else you can think of.

Doesn't change the fact that the Bible and other religions still have plenty of things they consider immoral for no good reasons and people belonging to these religions collectively try to impose these standards on the government. It also doesn't change how it's highly manipulative to teach a child about religion, since they have no properly developed critical thinking and their own opinions.

I'm semi religious. Agnostic, but i still go to church on account of my family. Some people here have the attitude that being religious makes you a nutjob. Even when i was Catholic i firmly believed in evolution. Some people seem to forget that religion doesn't cause you to lose your mind, and become a shit spewing dickhead like Santorum. It's just a different way of living, it's like being homosexual except it's a choice. (I feel like i'm treading in no-mans land with that analogy, i don't want to insult anyone)

11th February 2012
Last edited by aaro1450; 11th February 2012 at 02:02PM.
Post #142

I'm not religious and I am good friends with alot of people from alot of different religions, I have no problem with them or their religions. The part I dislike is the people who use religion as a guise to achieve their own ends and the more ignorant people that spend every waking minute trying to disprove science and every other religion.

I was tempted not to post here, as I can go on for a while about religion, but I shall end it there.

Regardless, those things were done in the name of God because they people carrying out the atrocities were essentially brainwashed by their religion into believing it was morally correct to do what they did. Religion was used as an excuse then and sadly religion is still accepted in modern day as an excuse for acts that would otherwise be punishable without a second thought.

Actually, the Crusades were not justified by scripture in any way. It went 100% against Christian scripture.

Back in the middle ages, most of the church priests couldn't even read latin, which is what the bible was printed in. It was ignorance that caused the Crusades. Ignorance of the people who being mislead by evil men that were not of God. Sure they did it in God's name, but it wasn't justified at all. God would have been 100% against the Crusades.

It was done in God's name like I'm about to go eat Chickfila in God's name...

Those men skewed religion and used it to their advantage the same way Hitler did.Edited:

Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.

Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.

Man FUCK religion. It is used to control the masses and there is no proof that god exists man. Religion is used for peasants who were not able to reason between their son and a stalk of corn. So they invented it to control them and put them in fear of a "superior" being called god. Most of the stuff the bible even says is either contradictory or false.
And in response to the teenager thing, many teenagers nowadays are able to reason much more and have their own voice. They have the ability to "speak against the man" and they are not afraid to, as you may have been 30 years ago. Schools teach students to use reason, which you may not have in the past so how bout you go fuck yourself and learn how to use your logic that "god(nonexistant)" gave to you. BITCH.

A lot of atheists (usually teenagers) seem to be very harsh on people who are religious. Seriously, get the fuck over it and respect their beliefs. If you do that, then your beliefs will probably be respected too. These militant atheists seem to be far worse than what they make out religious people to be. Tolerance and respect is the best way to go for society, because then we won't have extremist religious people wanting to harm others over their beliefs, and extremist atheists wanting to pick fights with every religious person they come across.

I respect the beliefs of others, regardless of whether they are atheists, christians, buddhists or whatever else their beliefs are. I consider myself agnostic because I don't believe at this stage we can prove the existence or lack of existence of a greater being, and I just really don't care much for that. I won't push my beliefs on to others, and I won't think of others negatively based on their beliefs. And for all I know, your beliefs are as valid as mine. Just don't push your beliefs onto myself or others.

Edited:

Why should something be respected if it is not true and could possibly be a lie? All that we can tell for sure about religion is that it "steals" our money by forcing us to donate or else god will not love us. Look at the mormon church i believe it is approximately 10% of your income must go to the church. What a waste of money!

well since we're generalizing millions of people I guess all mlp fans are 40-year-old basement-dwelling virgin weeaboos right? same way that every single christian on earth thinks and acts just like the members of the westboro baptist church and every german is a nazi

Edited:

Saying religion itself as a whole causes everything you're saying it does is like saying the principles of Communism directly cause people to start revolutions and attack their neighboring countries, or that being anti-SOPA automatically means that you pirate almost everything, upload torrents, and seed them. That is a godawful line of logic.

11th February 2012
Last edited by Lol-Nade; 11th February 2012 at 11:46PM.
Post #155

Sure it does. People go out of their way, derailing threads for the sake of ad hominem almost every time religion or my little pony is brought up. I know you've gotten shit just for having an mlp avatar, haven't you, sirius? Surely you've at least seen someone else with an mlp avatar post in a thread about something else with a post about something else and suddenly the discussion is all about how bronies are all fags and should commit mass suicide?

Point is, we're too hard on both and need to stop stirring up shit when shit doesn't need to be stirred.

Pretty sure you just:

A. Brought up an unrelated subject for the sole purpose of "stirring shit up"
or
B. Made a straw man fallacy in an attempt to turn the debate towards a different topic

Since when is an analogy a straw man fallacy? Or are you trying out fancy new words you don't fully understand?

Here, I'll wiki it for you.

A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

Basically a "Oh yes, one is bad, but check it out, this other one is just as bad or worse" even though MLP isn't even related to this subject.

Religion and MLP are both attacked harshly on Facepunch. Users will go out of their way to bring the spotlight onto these subjects in the middle of an unrelated thread. Attacks are almost never necessary but always overdone.

Let me explain this to you: This is a debate thread over whether or not Facepunchers are too harsh on religion. In an argument with a presumably atheist MLP fan, I used an analogy that would help him understand the other side of the argument. I took something familiar to him and compared it to the subject we're discussing. If he thought rationally he would realize that MLP fans are attacked in ways almost identical to how religious users are attacked on these forums. It's really not a very hard concept to grasp, analogy is a literary device commonly used in arguments.

As Angy Atheist knows, its really annoying being preached at. Yet, whenever i go on Reddit or other sites, its consistently atheists baahing theists saying they believe in "fairy tales." Yet, any mature person can accept anothers' beliefs, and its childish to think otherwise. The basis of any morality, religious or not, is to treat others as they want themselves treated.