I don't want to start a fight or anything, but I was just reading another thread where gay marriage was brought up. And I have been wondering myself, about exactly what gay people want.

From my perspective, it seems as if gays want the same rights and recognition as straight people, but straight people - mainly "christians" - don't want gays to be able to marry.

To me the obvious answer would be to call gay marriage something other than marriage which affords all the same rights and privelidges.

So, just wondering if any of the gay people here on ADISC would find this to be acceptable?

It was the mormon's who pumped tons of money into Yes on Prop 8 here in California. It's not just Christians who are against it, there's Mormons, Catholics and tons of other groups/religions against it for religious views.

Also here in California I think gay people can file for civil unions which grants all the same benefits as marriage. Thusly people are only fighting over the word marriage. that's the reason why I don't think marriage should be a legal term anymore.

Since I'm not religious, marriage doesn't hold the same "meaning" I suppose. I myself am bi-sexual, and wouldn't mind spending my life with a man if he was the right one for me. Though, I never intend to get married, so I'm not exactly sure what I'm to do about that.

I do however have many gay friends who are christian, my ex-boyfriend Spencer being born and raised a devout Catholic. For them it would mean a lot for a marriage to be allowed, one with religious significance.

If was in charge, not only would disliking David Bowie be punishable with prison time, but all forms of weddings, legal, religious, and other, would be allowed. Their happiness and being together only affects them, and I personally do not see why it makes so many people angry. I understand the religious conviction, but I'm fairly certain that it's not what Jesus was going for.

I also would be the first diaper-wearing, gay-lover having, athiest president, but that is another story.

But Mako, is marriage not traditionally a religious event? And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is? Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?

Giving everyone else "Civil Unions" wouldn't solve any problems, because this is as much a social battle as it is a legal one. Legalizing Gay "Marriage" does more than just grant us equal city, state, and federal rights to marriage, but it also sends a sweeping statement that Gay relationships are just as equal and valid as straight ones.

When anti-gay-marriage advocates say that "Gay Marriage is a threat to Traditional Marriage" or that it "undermines it" or "changes the definition of.." thats exactly what they mean. As long as the word "Marriage" is tied to that definition, as well as the hundreds of different rights and benefits latched on to the world, any other word will not be adequate.

No. Not in the least, marriage LONG predates the religions it's tied too. As well as you have to keep in mind the separation of church and state by the first amendment. Marriage is a legal term, if it were solely a religious term it has no place in law.

And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is?

You don't know many religions then. Abrahamic religions are the main opponents.

Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?

There was similar religious opposition to inter-racial marriage. Should they have just settled with a "oh you can have the same rights, but us god fearing folks don't feel comfortable with you being recognized the same."

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?

Already mentioned that it wasn't the tradition, but me and him said the same thing. Though I don't see people letting go of marriage.

<Edit> Furthermore, this is beyond them trying to "protect" marriage. You don't see protests against atheists getting married. And surely they're just as wrong in the eyes of their religion as gay marriage.

But Mako, is marriage not traditionally a religious event? And does homosexuality not fly in the face of just about every religion there is? Why do you want to enter into a ritual that is associated with a group/s who shun you?

I think that Fire2Box probably has a good idea regarding the subject. Civil unions for everybody as far as the law is concerned, turn marriage back into the religious thing it was traditionally. Would that be acceptable for you Mako?

Marriage was, traditionally, an exchange of property. Not a religious event or a particularly sacred event either. And Civil marriage far predates the sacred hijacking of it.

There was similar religious opposition to inter-racial marriage. Should they have just settled with a "oh you can have the same rights, but us god fearing folks don't feel comfortable with you being recognized the same."

It's true. Interracial marriage was only legalized in Virginia around 40 years ago.

Here's my view. I support gay marriage because churches have no right to infringe on anyone's political rights. For the record, I'm LDS (a Mormon) and would have voted No on Prop 8. Just because my church says that gay marriage is wrong does not mean that we should impose our values on everyone else.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Oh, and...

Originally Posted by Fire2box

It was the mormon's who pumped tons of money into Yes on Prop 8 here in California. It's not just Christians who are against it, there's Mormons, Catholics and tons of other groups/religions against it for religious views.

Mormons and Catholics are Christians, btw.

Last edited by LittleMonster; 22-Jun-2009 at 08:53.
Reason: added quote.

Given what I have just learned, I don't see a problem with legal marriage. I mean, it would seem to me that most religions have a version of it, but none of them invented it. That being the case, why do you think there is such a problem with this issue?

I mean, let the government make it legal, but each church will decide if gays can get married there. Just because it is recognized legally doesn't mean a church has to recognize it.

So is this what gay people are pushing for then, to be married in the eyes of the law? Does it matter if the church recognizes it?