/m/orioles

Reader Comments and Retorts

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

I agree with the basic premise, but Jones seems to be pretty wrong about some stuff here. People who run on the field get punished harshly, and they certainly aren't shown on Sportscenter, or anywhere else.

It's amazing to me how certain private businesses get special laws and abilities while others do not. It doesn't happen all the time but people walk into places they are supposed to be in rather frequently in all kinds of businesses.

Back in my restaurant days we'd get some drunk fool walking into our kitchen to disrupt us at least 3 or 4 times a year. There probably isn't a cop on the planet that would arrest someone for that. If we did call the cops and the drunk was still somewhere around the place they'd probably try to manipulate him into doing something stupid but they certainly wouldn't cart him off as soon as they saw him like they do at stadiums.

I think there's an unspoken fear not articulated, much less addressed. To me, it's an indication of a lack of security, and it could lead to danger. Like fans who throw things (or pour things) at players on the field, if not dealt with very harshly, it could give people ideas. If a fan is allowed to pour beer on the centerfielder's head, why not acid? How easy is it for a fan to run out on the field with a pistol?

I remember when John Lennon got kudos for being accessible on the streets of New York. How did that work out? How many celebrities want access to them restricted, on and off the field. There might be a reason. Clemens once was asked why he became kind of cold about autographing after games. He said he stopped after sufficient examples of people taking advantage, sometimes scary advantage. He said he'd sign autographs for an hour or something, then when he had to cut it short to go eat, someone would called him a mother ###### as he walked away. He'd look down there was writing all over his clothes and even pieces of his jacket had been cut off. As he put it, who needs that ####? The mob is not always nice.

re: security: This is my concern as well. One also thinks of Monica Seles; the guy who punched the White Sox first base coach, or whatever it was, a few years ago; or even narrowing it down to Yankee Stadium, Grim LeRogue. (That's funny now because the guy was too crazy to carry out even the simplest plan, but if he wasn't...)

I think any athlete would be entirely morally justified in assuming that any fan who enters the field of play intends to inflict harm, and in reacting accordingly. Unfortunately, neither the player nor the team is probably up for a multimillion-dollar lawsuit after somebody gets punched. So maybe write it on the ticket, much like waiving liability for being hit by foul balls. I am serious about this, BTW. (My main concern would be whether the waiver would hold up.)

My favorite is this Jimmy Piersall incident (wish I could have found a video). Piersall gave a retreating fan a kick swipe that had his leg finish the kick level with the top of Piersall's head, like a ballet dancer.

Ah, how sweet. But, then, DiMaggio never passed up an opportunity for a photo-op.

OTOH, my favorite: My man, Ted Williams, recounts in his book how two guys came at him while he was in the field. Of course, in the Boston papers it was reported that it was fans who didn't like Williams and had attacked him. Williams said it was actually a couple of guys who had had a couple of beers too many who had ran onto the field to tell him where some fish were biting.

It'll probably be a lot easier after the next "originalist" Supreme Court decision on the Second Amendment gets handed down. Chief Justice Scalia couldn't possibly imagine George Washington going to a baseball game without his trusty AK-47 to protect him against foul balls.

“You look like an [idiot] when you run on the field...Your [butt] is going to jail with a fine...I wish the cops tase the [hell] out of them.”

I [copulating] wish the [Deity-cursed] newspapers would have the [copulating] [testicles] to print the actual [copulating] words he [copulating] said. These [penis-vacuuming] sons of [female dogs] should print the real [excrement], not this [copulating] candy-[buttocks] [excrement]!

The Dimaggio case is different because it's a kid. If a 9 year old comes running up to you, you'll react a lot differently than if a drunk 22 year old does the same.

I don't think Jones makes the best case here but I would have no trouble with a player who lays out an onrushing adult. I would have no trouble with that anywhere to be honest. Now, if the guy is just doing loops in the outfield, that isn't a threat. But if he is actually coming at the player? No jury in the world, civil or otherwise, would convict on that.

The Dimaggio case is different because it's a kid. If a 9 year old comes running up to you, you'll react a lot differently than if a drunk 22 year old does the same.

Actually in that Dimaggio case, there were four separate incidents in the same game of fans running out to Dimaggio, in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th innings. According to The Sporting News, he began signing at least one of those times before the cops came out, and when the kids were hauled away, the crowd booed the cops. It's hard to say what the ages were for all of these incidents, because the photo in the Times** shows only the five kids (who look to be about 10 to 12)*** who ran out there in the 5th inning.

BTW Dimaggio still managed to go 3 for 4 in the game, with two home runs, so those fans must not have bothered him too much.

**Which unfortunately may be behind a paywall, and only available to Times subscribers.

***Forget about running onto the field. How many unaccompanied kids of that age even go at all to Yankee Stadium today?

It'll probably be a lot easier after the next "originalist" Supreme Court decision on the Second Amendment gets handed down. Chief Justice Scalia couldn't possibly imagine George Washington going to a baseball game without his trusty AK-47 to protect him against foul balls.

Yeah, but then there will be 38,000 other "good guy" fans with their own AK-47s who will start shooting at the bad guy. Problem solved. That's how it works, right?

yes
which makes me beyond nervous about the coming years when we are all supposed to be packing. should i should shoot if some other (swear words female Dog) tries to pull some sheet from me at a sale. isn't that self defense?

Pure paranoia. The number of times a major sport athlete has been harmed by a fan in America in the 100+ year history of American sport is the functional equivalent of zero. Thousands upon thousands of workplaces have proven more dangerous.

And athletes have proven to be a far greater threat to civilians generally than civilians to athletes. If you really wanted to reduce athlete/civilian violence, you wouldn't let athletes go to places like bars, or have wives and girlfriends.

Actually in that Dimaggio case, there were four separate incidents in the same game of fans running out to Dimaggio, in the 2nd, 4th, 5th and 7th innings. According to The Sporting News, he began signing at least one of those times before the cops came out, and when the kids were hauled away, the crowd booed the cops. It's hard to say what the ages were for all of these incidents, because the photo in the Times** shows only the five kids (who look to be about 10 to 12)*** who ran out there in the 5th inning.

Two white guys ran the bases with Henry Aaron as he trotted around 715. This in an environment where it was publicly known that Aaron had received death threats.

The two white guys didn't do anything and life went on. People didn't cower in fear when it happened or cower in fear for months after.

(That was obviously a better country than the paranoid, fanboyish culture of today.)

People who run on the field get punished harshly, and they certainly aren't shown on Sportscenter, or anywhere else.

I think most broadcast teams have a sort of silent agreement that they will not even talk about it - the announcers don't mention it, and the camera crews don't show it. I was watching a game last week (can't remember what it was), where you caught a glimpse of a guy running out in the side of the camera, and they immediately switched to another camera and the announcers didn't talk about it. That's probably the right way to go.

And then, of course, there's the John Sterling way. I was depressed yesterday, so I decided to punish myself further by listening to the SterWaldmanCast of the NYY-BAL game while running some errands. When the fans ran out on the field, Mr. "Hey, I Have A Radio Voice" decided it was a teachable moment for the younguns:

"Don't run on the field. You'll go to jail. You don't want to go to jail, do you? You know, if someone bets you money, or dares you to do it, and they call you chicken, well, then you just say, 'Yep, I'm a chicken.' Don't do it. You'll go to jail. Won't you go to jail, Suzyn?"

Lesson learned, John, thanks!

And, I know this is off-topic, but I can't resist sharing a couple more gems from the broadcast:

On trying to recall whether Jacoby Ellsbury had any hits in the previous series vs. Toronto:

"It's not like I keep my scorecards after the series is over."

On not being able to decipher how deep above-mentioned Adam Jones was playing in center field:

Sterling:
"I'm not very good at this, Suzyn... [sold, five-second pause] Can you tell how deep Jones is playing in center?"Waldman:
"I'm terrible at this too... [another long pause] I'd say he's equidistant between Cruz and Markakis."

I'm working on a battle rap mashup of those two going back and forth saying "I'm not very good at this, Susyn" and "I'm terrible at this too." I'm going to call it, "I'm Not Very Good At This, Suzyn."

I'm sure Tom Gamboa would love to subscribe to Sugar Bear's alternate history wherein he still has his hearing. To say nothing of Monica Seles.

A handful of incidents don't mean that all fans on the field are dangerous would-be felons, but this revisionist history is beyond stupid. A fan on the field is capable of inflicting plenty of damage on a player who--by nature of being focused on something completely different--is a potentially unaware victim

'm sure Tom Gamboa would love to subscribe to Sugar Bear's alternate history wherein he still has his hearing. To say nothing of Monica Seles.

OK, one first base coach and one tennis player in 100+ years of sports. One of them by a German, in Germany.

Like I said -- the functional equivalent of zero.

A fan on the field is capable of inflicting plenty of damage on a player who--by nature of being focused on something completely different--is a potentially unaware victim

And? Every stranger I pass on the street and ride the subway with is "capable of inflicting plenty of damage" on me.

If you want to talk about damage actually inflicted, athletes have inflicted far more on civilians than the other way around, by orders of magnitude. Athletes are dangers to civilians. Civilians aren't dangers to athletes.

The "athletes are precious swans perpetually threatened by fans" meme is fanboy at its very purest.