So, there we were at the latest WARGs meeting, and we noticed that there were not many people around. At first we thought of ways to try and recruit more people into coming along, but conversation soon turned to what WARGS was set up for.

Recently WARGs, as generously hosted by Wargames Supply, has been a place for gamers to meet up in a relaxed environment to hang out or try new games.

Originally WARGS (paraphrased from Morgues post) was looking to provide some structure for Wellingtons gaming community, and particularly at providing an opportunity to meet regularly and to provide accessibility for new gamers in town with no independent contacts.

There is some argument that this role is now being adequately filled by the number of conventions that we've got going. KapCon predates WARGS, but ConFusion, FrightNight, Day of Games and the new LarpCon have changed the shape of the Wellington roleplaying scene. For some of these (particularly ConFusion) WARGs helped out a lot, for others, probably not a lot directly, but perhaps the connections that WARGs enabled helped out. Perhaps not.

In any case, I personally think that it is now a lot easier to jump into the Wellington community through these conventions.

So, what about WARGS?

Well, it is nice having a regular meeting spot reserved, but is it enough?

That's what this post is asking. For you, as a roleplayer, what would motivate you into coming into town once a month or so? If anything?

Does there exist any reason to have a monthly meetup?

Personally, I think that it can still be valuable to have a low-pressure meeting place for newbies, but perhaps we can see if the VicGames club might step into that role, since a reasonable proportion of newbies will probably be students new to the area. Maybe it would be better to concentrate our efforts rather than to fragment them.

Perhaps WARGs might be more valuable as a co-ordinating organisation? Where there are few regular meetings, but the club consists of people who a) are reasonably well connected and/or b) willing to help other roleplaying events take place?

Perhaps it is time to retire the club?

Ultimately WARGs was set up to foster the Wellington Roleplaying community, and so I address this to you: Is there any way that we can help you?

I'm really interested to see what people say to this. I'll give it some thought myself in an abstract way - I think I'm not in your target audience right now.

I love the existence of WARGS in town, because it undoubtedly played a role in developing the thriving Wgtn game scene. And because it echoes in many ways the thriving Open Roleplaying Community that I launched in Edinburgh. I hope we stumble across the right value proposition to give it focus.

So I'll start by asking a question that's a variation of yours, Grant, but hopefully a revealing one, and one anyone can answer:

I don't want to be misconstrued here, but I think this is exactly the problem that WARGS is suffering from at the moment. I had the same thought myself when the post first popped up. When the mainstream of your hobby is thinking "this isn't relevant to me" you're screwed.

WARGS used to be a hub/nexus catering to different segments of the population in different ways. It did allow new gamers a space to meet experienced gamers - but to my mind it also offered something to the old hands. Old hands don't come along to meet new gamers: they believe what Morgue has just said.

I've not come along to WARGS in months because my perception is that it has become Grant's monthly de facto Shadowrun game. I have love in my heart for SR, but it's all nostalgia._________________The opinions prevalent in one age... are confuted and rejected in another and rise again to reception in remoter times. Thus the human mind is kept in motion without progress.
- Samuel Johnson, Preface to Shakespeare

I haven't been along mainly due to a run of other commitments scheduled for the same time. Itís also getting a bit hard to disappear for four or so hours on a Sunday leaving a partner alone at home with two kids as they get older. I also felt a little uncomfortable playing SR in the middle of what was essentially a corridor outside of the shop.

I have tried to run several games at WARGS over the last few years with little or no interest and it seemed that I would have needed to organise players prior to the event to get enough for a game. I think Mash hit the nail on the head as usually the two games that did run were Grant's SR and some form of Indi style game by Paul. The opportunity to try new board games is cool but not necessarily why I am there in the first place.

I find it a bit hard to define what would motivate me to keep coming to WARGS. I think it might look like this:
-An opportunity to mix with and discuss roleplaying with people
-The opportunity to turn up and run a game to introduce people to what I like to play with the likelyhood that I will get enough players to do this
-Space to spread out and feel comfortable to run/play a game
-Product previews/run throughs/discussion/presentations_________________Playing: Call of Cthulhu (Masks of Nyarlathotep/Kingsport Adventures)
Running: Call of Cthulhu (Delta Green)
Planning: Call of Cthulhu (Cthulhu Britanica/Cthulhu Invictus)

-An opportunity to mix with and discuss roleplaying with people
-Product previews/run throughs/discussion/presentations

Yes, this! _________________The opinions prevalent in one age... are confuted and rejected in another and rise again to reception in remoter times. Thus the human mind is kept in motion without progress.
- Samuel Johnson, Preface to Shakespeare

I think Mash hit the nail on the head as usually the two games that did run were Grant's SR and some form of Indi style game by Paul.

That is a good point, is having my Shadowrun game as a regular fixture at WARGs actually detrimental? Does it suck players away from other things which might be new or different? I'm happy to change Shadowrun to a different day if it will reignite enthusiasm for WARGs in general.

It's something that I've worried about in the past, but it has been hard to gauge the effects that it has had.

-An opportunity to mix with and discuss roleplaying with people
-Product previews/run throughs/discussion/presentations

Yes, this!

Ok, cool, is there anything you have in mind? If X players turn up to chew the fat and/or demo something? Or would you be thinking more formal, as in a regular schedule of people who have something cool to show.

WARGs could potentially be a forum for KapCon replays if there is demand. Or it could foster local talent? A while ago there was a thread stating that lots of people had things in development, could WARGs offer an opportunity for play-testing?

I don't want to be misconstrued here, but I think this is exactly the problem that WARGS is suffering from at the moment. I had the same thought myself when the post first popped up. When the mainstream of your hobby is thinking "this isn't relevant to me" you're screwed.

WARGS used to be a hub/nexus catering to different segments of the population in different ways. It did allow new gamers a space to meet experienced gamers - but to my mind it also offered something to the old hands. Old hands don't come along to meet new gamers: they believe what Morgue has just said.

What was it that it offered to old hands? That might well be worth attempting to recapture.

I think Mash hit the nail on the head as usually the two games that did run were Grant's SR and some form of Indi style game by Paul.

That is a good point, is having my Shadowrun game as a regular fixture at WARGs actually detrimental? Does it suck players away from other things which might be new or different? I'm happy to change Shadowrun to a different day if it will reignite enthusiasm for WARGs in general.

Quite the opposite I would suggest. Im pretty sure that the main reason for some people coming to WARGS is to play your Shadowrun game and would probably stop coming to WARGS if you moved the game to a different location and time._________________Playing: Call of Cthulhu (Masks of Nyarlathotep/Kingsport Adventures)
Running: Call of Cthulhu (Delta Green)
Planning: Call of Cthulhu (Cthulhu Britanica/Cthulhu Invictus)

I, too, used to come to WARGS every month. I stopped after I started getting into LARP for my RP fix, and found it more interesting than tabletop (for me).

For me, the WARGS meetings every month were mostly board game sessions, rather than any form of roleplay (although I know a few tabletop games were on offer). While board games can be interesting, I find that most of them are just a set of mechanics in which you aim to achieve the most points. I find this a lot less appealing than a good story.

As has already been said, roleplay with a bunch of people you don't necessarily know in a hallway in public is nowhere near as enriching as roleplay with close friends in the comfort of a friendly home. Even given the option, I wouldn't roleplay at a WARGS meeting.

I'm not so sure that the Wellington LARP convention (Hydra) will take away from WARGS, because WARGS doesn't seem to have much involvement in LARP. Certainly nowhere near as much as NZLARPS does. The other RP conventions, however, are certainly a very good opportunity for new and old players to mix.

As for new players, the Vic Games Club (or whatever it is calling itself now) seems to have most of this covered when it comes to tabletop RP and board games. As others have said, NZRaG is also a better way in which to create connections between new players and old for the purposes of tabletop RP. Diatribe serves a similar purpose for LARP.

There are only so many people in Wellington, with a limited amount of spare time and money to do things that they are interested in. For me, I get more for my time and money in attending the conventions held throughout the year than I did from attending WARGS regularly._________________Playing: None
Running: None
Planning: Sci-fi LARP Campaign

I used to be a (fairly) loyal WARGS-goer a few years back, when I was newly arrived in Wellington and WARGS was at WHS. It was a great venue for meeting gamers and finding games in a new town (and indeed a new country). So why have I fallen from the way?

* Old WARGS threw up all sorts of crazy stuff (much of it due to the reality-distorting influence of Mr Michael Sands, but by no means all). When I've gone to New WARGS, I've played Shadowrun or board games. Don't get me wrong, both of these are fun, but not something I feel the urge to go out of my way for.

* When I first came to Wellington, I was looking to meet potential regular gamers as much as looking for a one-off game. WARGS delivered on that, for which I remain immensely grateful (thank you again, Nasia and Mash). But after living here for a few years this is no longer a compelling reason to go to a monthly event unless it is very lively indeed; Kapcon, Day of Games and Confusion generally suffice.

* Convenience. A variety of factors mean that going to WARGS is not as convenient as it used to be. These factors are mostly personal and unavoidable, and therefore not useful to discuss.

So how could WARGS work for me again? Well, give me a venue to meet (or be directed towards) people who I'd like to meet, and give me a chance to play (or run) games that make me sit up. The former follows directly from the latter, so I guess what I'm looking for is a bunch of wild-eyed gamers pimping a bunch of interesting-sounding games.

Which sounds a great deal like Confusion or Day of Games.

Which in turn makes me wonder if the mini-con model could be a useful one for WARGS.

Thinking out loud here. Wellington has conventions in January (Kapcon), May (DoG), August (Confusion) and October (Fright Night). (I haven't been following the LARP discussion so we might have even more by now.) Could WARGS hold a March mini-con, and maybe a Kapcon playtest fest in December? If this were coordinated with Sophie and Kat (e.g. slipping DoG to late May and Confusion to mid-August), it should be possible to find times so that newcomers would rarely be more than a couple of months away from a 'meet.' With suitable differentiation of the mini-cons it might be possible to avoid the feeling of "just another WARGS meeting" so as to bring in the games and GMs, while still having a WARGS presence to make newcomers feel welcome. Kapcon playtesting could be the theme for one; I think Marcus has already tinkered with the idea of a "different theme every year" convention which could suit the other.

In this scenario, WARGS monthly meetings go away and WARGS effectively becomes a sponsor for a series of mini-cons (some existing, some new) running approximately every two months.

Obviously the danger is convention fatigue -- the risk that extra mini-cons could damage existing cons more than they grow their own membership. I hope this could be avoided if the additional cons had distinct themes or purposes (a "Kapcon playtest fest" is unlikely to harm either Kapcon or Fright Night), but only Morgue known for sure. But I think the 'one-off feeling' could be a way to spice up the WARGS calendar.

I agree with most of the comments here. I like Liam's vision for WARGS (which reminds me of the initial WARGS meetings), but there seems to be a catch-22 implicit in this view - most folks would like to have the option of going to something that offered these kind of events, but these kind of events are only likely to occur if most people go. I think it reinforces the idea that (some) people need additional value in order to justify taking the time to attend. What lies behind this, is just how much effort and work it would take to get such a thing off the ground, and then how much effort, planning and favour-calling it would require to be sustainable.

Ivan's mini-con suggestion seems like a much more sustainable option - it's more likely that people can commit to a single event rather than a regular meeting - but obviously it still requires a minimum number of folks to show up, a venue booked, fees charged, advertising and various other organisation - not huge, but an effort which is easy to underestimate and which innevitably saps energy and enthusiasm._________________Playing: Delta Green
Running: BASH: Reverie
Planning: Rogue Trader

Whilst I agree with everything Dale has just said, I would point out that a single event does shift WARGS focus a little. The advantage of regular meetings when dealing with newcomers is that you have a meeting within the very near future to point them at. There's a good chance that if you say that there is a meetting in over 2 months time that the momentum or memory will have been lost by then._________________Playing: Doomstones (WFRP2e); Shades of Terra (Exalted: Dragonblooded)
Running: Thousand Thrones (WFRP2e)
Planning: Incarnadine Crucible (Exalted: Alchemicals); Tale of Twin Kings, Angels of Death and the Lover Who Stole All Things (Exalted 1e)