Everyone wondered how good a healthy Pittsburgh Penguins club would be.

The Philadelphia Flyers showed their Pennsylvania rival was good for six games in the Eastern Conference quarterfinals, but no more.

The Flyers sent Sid’s Penguins packing Sunday afternoon, Philly’s 5-2 victory in Game 5 ending any chance of Pittsburgh enjoying a lengthy run through the postseason.

A good many thought that last year’s Stanley Cup finalist, the Vancouver Canucks, would be the Western Conference’s representative at the end this season.

No one bothered to tell the Los Angeles Kings.

Sunday night, Jarret Stoll’s goal 4:27 into OT sent the Canucks into summertime, the Green Men now free to do their gardening. The Kings’ 2-1 win over Vancouver ended that series in a brisk five games.

Okay please don’t take this the wrong way Tom. But I can read your excitement over next years draft. For whatever reason when I reread your post, i did so with Pierre McGuire’s voice speaking it and I started to laugh. You just needed to include their home towns and it would have been perfect! And oh yah call at least one of them a monster.

I only say this, because I do respect your hockey opinions and your passion shows through so much.

Hab fans are concerned about the two centres but the real issue is how all the Dmen will shake out once Murray is selected. Toronto’s pick may also be of interest, especially if it turns out to be the centre that the Habs didn’t select.

Rumour on the street is that Timmins is in Sweden right now conducting a personal interview with Filip Forsberg.

Question to the Junior Hockey fanatics. How does team Canada choose its under 18 team? Is it similar to the World Championships, where Junior teams not making playoffs are picked over by Hockey Canada and the coach?

I assume that the more important a player is to the team’s penalty kill, the more important it is for said player to avoid committing penalties.

Penalty minutes are weird statistic. Rarely does a player take a penalty and everyone says, “What a great play.” However, when taken in aggregate, a large quantity of penalty minutes is often considered virtuous. It appears to be an odd double-standard. But I suppose in the latter instances, “penalty minutes” is a euphemism for “fighting majors,” which has to be the only reason someone would praise a player for collecting a large number of PIMs.

Let’s say he can choose 8 teams that he will accept a trade to. What if 4 already have a #1 and #2 center in place, and 3 more don’t have the cap space or budget. Then you’re down to 1, and the bargaining gets really tough.

It’s just something that has to be considered, as Mick has pointed out.

I tried to ask about Halak’s injury situation yesterday ( I had been away on vacation and didn’t know what happened to him) and while one or two people replied with a civil answer I also got some very snarky replies. It seems that some Price supporters cannot stand to hear any discussion what-so-ever about Halak. By the way, Elliott is doing a fine job for the Blues so they certainly are in no rush to get Halak back.

A year earlier than Plekanec had his second go in Hamilton, Eller in his first full season of AHL hockey scored 57 points in 70 games while playing with mononucleosis. Scored an underwhelming 17 points in 77 games with the Habs last season as their 4th line centreman while Jeff Halpern was promoted to the wing or third line centre when the team dealt with injuries.

This season he scored sixteen goals and 28 points a year younger than Plekanec had his first full season with the Habs where he tallied 29 points.

Eller was a 13th overall pick of the St. Louis Blues and was 5th on the draft board of Jarmo Kekalainen. Also known as the guy who built the St. Louis Blues through the draft.

Eller’s career progression is a year ahead of Plekanec’s. This season Plekanec scored a point for every thirty-two minutes played and Eller scored a point for every 43 minutes played.

Eller’s best linemate all year was Andrei Kostitsyn and from the beginning of the season through the All-star break Eller drew the opposing team’s top lines contrary to popular belief.

It isn’t even close to far fetched to believe Eller will be capable of becoming a second line centreman next year. Big difference between Gionta and Bourque and Moen, Kostitsyn, Darche, Leblanc and White.

Highly unlikely.
He should be in Hamilton playing more and developing his skills.
The only reason he is in Montreal is to make former Pierre Gauthier and Bob Gainey look good in the Jaroslav Halak deal. We could have gotten more in the Halak deal IMO and I was not a fan when we traded him.
Eller is a work in progress and next season is make it or break it for Eller and time to shine in his third full year with the club! No excuses!
If not, it will be another bust for our club in terms of rating prospects.
Personally, I don’t see Eller doing anything for our club in terms of offensive production.

For one thing, I don’t know who said he was an elite player. Not I.
But a top #2 centre man is how I view him.
I’m not saying don’t trade him. But as I mentioned to you earlier, I think you’re a year off with Eller. He still needs another year of developing and mentoring.
And when you send a player like Pleks out, who covers all the ice, does in fact play against other team’s top lines (often) and hustles his derrière off, that should encourage Eller to work even harder and hopefully become the elite player we all want him to be.
This team is sorely lacking in leadership, and I don’t think we should move the few who show it.

Pleks is a solid 2-way center who on any other team would be 2nd or 3rd in depth. I like the player, but PG was dumb enough to give him top $$$ ($5MM for another 4 years) and pretend him to be a #1 centerman. I say time to trade Pleks, get some decent value for him now, free cap space, and assign the role to Eller. I say Eller will grow into that role nicely and likely exceed his predecessor.

Can’t believe hamrlik was so badly out of position on the winning goal against last night. He plays left defence and was on the right boards when seguin was walking in all alone to score the winner,talk about brutal.

Actually Hamrlik did not look too bad during the game. I specifically kept a close eye on him and thought he was solid (I would guess he was top 3 in minutes on the team for defense). Think about it, he is better than Campoli, Kaberle, Weber, Diaz, etc….

Let’s assume the Habs are getting ready to to part ways with Gomez. If they trade Pelks, that leaves them with just two bonafide NHL centres heading into traing camp. That’s bad enough, but what happens if DD or Eller gets hurt, or Eller can’t make the jump to 2nd line status? That makes us Columbus.

Even if Gomez stays, how do you justify trading Pleks and keeping a guy who is a huge disappointment (and liability) to the team?

I think Hab fans need to accept the fact that next year may not be a great rebound season. Lots of factors point to waiting it out and keeping our powder dry.

Also between Plekanec and Desharnais….if they continue putting up 50-60 points each a season, that is just as good as having a number one center putting up 80+ point seasons, and having your number two center putting up 40.

Not every team has two centers putting up 60 points(give or take)

Personally, I think your dislike for Pleks, is a little unfounded.

Look at a team like Boston….they don’t have any top point producers…but have depth. That’s what we have to realistic hope for from our 3 Centerman. And give him some wingers for crying out loud……that’s the much bigger problem here.

Steve, I am not specifically advocating trading Plex, but I do think the new GM will make some changes. And in order to get you have to give. I just think there will be a trade or two done by the new GM which may surprise us.

I think talk trading Pleks is premature also. He can play way better than he has. A couple years ago Crosby (after getting his tail handed to him by the Habs) remarked that a team can’t win playing that way. It is probable he was correct. If Pleks feels the same way he needs a chance under another system to show if his sulk is all about him, or about the direction the team was heading.

I hope he can too, but it’s also possible he over-achieved this year. And while it’s a possibility that Plekanec is moved, it’s also quite possible that either of Patches or Cole gets moved from DD’s wing as well.

I also don’t expect this team to to turn around or rebound next year or for seasons to come. We have a weak farm team and really we are praying that our prospects will step it up to the next level like Kristo, Gallagher, Tinordi, etc.. to name a few but only time will tell but I’m not looking forward to next season and at least 2 or 3 more of non-playoff hockey will come to haunt us.

It is time to stop comparing Tomas Plekanec to the game’s elite players.

He has topped the 60 point mark only twice in seven full NHL seasons and coincidentally has only topped the 40 assist mark twice over that time as well. Line combinations and penalty killing time are a crutch for his admirers. His wingers have included but weren’t limited to Andrei Kostitsyn, Alex Kovalev, Alex Tanguay, Mike Cammalleri, Brian Gionta, Guillamme Latendresse, Sergei Kostitsyn, Matt D’Agostini, Max Pacioretty, Chris Higgins and Michael Ryder.

His defensive abilities while close to elite aren’t quite there. His takeaway, faceoff percentage and plus/minus totals have been.

2, 7, 12, 11, 15, 13 and 21. Those are the teams penalty kill rankings since Plekanec became an integral part of the special teams unit. Funny that the jump from average to elite coincides with Price’s taking over as a full-time starter and Hal Gill’s arrival.

So as one of the best penalty killers in the league his team didn’t rank in the top 10 for his first five years on the penalty killing unit.

The notion that he’s an elite player at anything is ridiculous. He’s had to take the bulk of the time on the penalty kill as a Hab because there weren’t any other options.

Good penalty killer? Yeah. Good defensively? Sure. Elite? Not a chance in hell.

The same way he always has. Hovering somewhere in between 50 and 60 points, just like Desharnais did. He brings good defensive play, which is not worth an additional $4 million annually and not worth the investment as a 1st line centreman.

Tom I think the reason many people here don’t like the idea of trading Plex, is because he has in some ways been the consistent poster boy for forwards/centers on this team for the past 5+ seasons.

He has generally provided good hustle, has been accountable for his play and most importantly he was a product of the Habs drafting and developing him. Given how many players the Habs have done a poor job of retaining and perhaps trading away for too little, there is a great deal of intrepidation for fans to have faith in the organization trading one of its “Stars” and getting full value.

Hopefully with the new GM, comes new credibility. However, in order for this team to take steps forward there will have to come change. In order for this change to be beneficial long term we as fans will have to accept that sometimes a fan favourite will be traded in order to get something really good back.

I can live with Plex being traded, BUT! for damn sure it better be a good trade. Because while his point totals don’t put him in the elite center bracket, he certainly is a complete 2way player who does provide good effort for the most part.

You could compare him to second line centres around the league and say he’s in the right ballpark. But at this point in time with the state of the franchise, it makes no sense to continue paying him that salary and giving him that role when Eller and Desharnais are both capable of being second line centremen and in addition having a blue chip centreman coming in for the 2013-2014 season at the latest. Grigorenko plays from day one, Galchenyuk needs another year in junior.

Well if you think the team needs to continue to finish at the bottom, that will be a worthwhile scenario, where the team could compete only in a few years.
While I think keeping Pleks and improving the wings could have them competing next year.

I think you under value just how much Pleks has been doing for the Habs this season, and this in a season where the majority would agree he under-performed.
They could still make the PO’s without him, but serious improvement would need to be made on the lineup, and a veteran/solid 4th line C would be needed to alleviate the lack of experience of the other C’s.

Tom, I think you’re putting too much trust in Eller’s development.
I’m not saying he won’t turn out, but he still needs a lot of work.
I would trust the Habs would keep Pleks at least another year, hopefully with more competent and CONSISTENT wingers.
Perhaps then, if Eller has become a top #2, then you can consider it.
But the team still lacks too much depth.
And I agree with Shiram, his money is no longer considered top $ for what he offers. I think he brings more than fair market value.

May I add that in order for a GM to properly evaluate the benefits of trading a Plekanec or not he must do the following:

Set up a game plan for the next 3 years minimum.
Determine Plekanec’s niche and contribution in it.
Determine how Plekanec’s effectiveness is affected by the current roster.
Determine how Plekanec’ effectiveness would be affected by applicable changes to the current roster.
Determine how any changes to the current roster enlarges or diminishes Plekanec’s importance.
Then with such an evaluation in mind… a GM can decide one of the following:

Keep Plekanec while changing the roster and fit him into a lesser or ‘revised’ role.

Trade Plekanec as part of revising his roster.

It is no coincidence that Plekanec’s name comes up in many trade discussions among fans and analysts. He is one of those players who on his own will never be ‘the face’ of the franchise… but also one of those players you can neither trade away for simple equal value or hang on to if all that does is maintain a staus-quo re your team’s performance.

Habs need true team-construction GM’ing now.. and that will include a decision on a player like Plekanec… regardless of loyalty etc.

I could have easily made the argument that Kesler was expendable prior to Hodgson being moved.

Backes is his team’s captain, a selke nominee and he contributes offense, defense and leadership alike. But in the grand scheme of things without his great leadership, yeah he is expendable for the Blues with all of their talent.

Mike Richards isn’t expendable to the Kings because he brings more to the Kings than Jarret Stoll at a similar salary and career length.

This is a case where Eller and Desharnais can play #1 and #2 centre on this team and it probably doesn’t miss much if anything offensively and misses little defensively with the improvement in Eller’s two way game being what it’s been. In addition, as I’ve said and most others have concurred on that the team is poised to add Grigorenko or Galchenyuk in the draft. Galchenyuk will be back in Sarnia next year, Grigorenko will make the jump immediately.

I think Plek at his best can do 60+ points with a solid positive plus/minus. I think the habs need to be sure DD is the real deal offensively AND can stand up to the additional defensive punishment he’s going to garner next season before considering trading Plek. The only reason to trade him is that he can bring back some strong prospects who can play in Hamilton with Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Holland and Gallagher next season. I’d love to see the habs pick up Emerson Etem and another Anaheim prospect for Plek.

I dont think the HABS need be sure if DD is the real deal or not. Because if DD is NOT the real deal, then based on track record Plekanec has not demonstrated the he is anymore likely to be the real deal…. if by real deal you do mean a true prototype (production and leadership wise) number 1 or number 2 centre.

Exactly. Plekanec has proven between Carbonneau, Gainey and now Martin that he will not do better than he has. He’s peaked. So why not give the opportunity to Eller and Desharnais to run with this team in conjunction with the new addition coming from the draft?

DD has not proven to be a better center than Plekanec, DD’s upside right now is mostly about his excellent cap hit, they are both good centers.
I’d keep both untill Eller matures a bit more, and the Habs have another center that can eat PK minutes.

If you want to see why the Canucks will never win the Stanley Cup with their cash locked up with teh Sedin sisters, watch the highlights of the Kings’ tying goal, and focus on H. Sedin. He makes a lazy givaway exiting his zone; he floats back vaguley toward his won goal, and co-incidentally arrives at the same time as the Kings player who scores the goal, and fails to try anythng to tie him and prevent the goal.

Weak, pathetic, and, it must be said, European. No Cup with the Sedins.

Must be said, hehe, oh yah must be. Should L.A. get Kopitar off their roster before the next series starts?

Edit: I have no issue with taking H.Sedin to task for his play, it is just the generalizations. So following your logic, Kesler played like a bag of crap, so American like, Lapierre was useless, so typically Quebec, Higgins was crap, another crap American, etc, etc, etc,….

Gerald – No need to pick a former Hab for this job. And French would certainly not be a requirement.

I see it as a three step process. Provide mentorship and guidance for drafted players, keep training them as they move to the pro level and have a vastly improved scouting system in terms of evaluating NHL players, both our own and those on other NHL teams.

It’s a perfect opportunity to bring in fresh blood from outside the traditional Hab culture.

Tom do you think Gainey and Timmins would have been as accessible as the two examples in the article would have been? And if I am a rookie player or 2nd year player with team, it would be quite intimidating to approach BOb Gainey with my day to day concerns.

This Montreal team is a rich team, they can afford to hire someone full time to do this I think. Timmins should be more than busy with his scouting than to have to worry about food diets and players girlfriend problems. Obviously I am overgeneralizing the players issues, but I think a small position like this should be done properly and professionaly by the habs, not by committee and part time.

I don’t know how often players can reach out to people in that defined role.

I do know that our draftees are reached out to monthly at the very least.

It’s a good question though. I doubt that the people in these roles make themselves THAT available to the players. It could wind up being a problem being seen as circumventing the player’s coaching staff.

It shows doesn’t it. You read about Brisson grooming his clients with the pros, or JT’s as usual great blog, and you begin to look at what happened to Montreal picks. From 2004 8 of 9 are not with the organization. 2005 6 of 7 gone. 2006 5 of 6 gone. The under 22’s are better, largely because many are in college.

Then you vaguely remember management quotes over the years about how they’re mature and professional and able to look after themselves. Then you read stories from the old days about how this or that player mentored this or that guy into the league. Took care of them and made sure they didn’t steal purses even if it was to protect a team mate’s reputation.

Sometimes as Habs fans we cut the team too much slack and let the players wear it all. Or it could be they just can’t draft worth a hoot. Either way the fickle finger of responsibility may need to be pointed to the folks wasting assets.

Such love-in this morning. Add-nauseum.
I can tell there’s no playoff emotions going on here.
It almost worries me.
But I’m too frustrated by my playoff pool.
Good thing I’m not an odds-maker.
My predicted Stanley Cup winner is already out!

Reading about Vancouver, I honestly think that their Presidents Trophies are because of, much like Washington, playing in an incredibly weak division. No other Northwest team made the playoffs this year or last year. It’s easy to pile up on the points when the rest of your division are bottom-feeders.

As history with this franchise has shown, it’s a bad decision to trade players when their value is low.

It’s very likely that we’re about to add a centreman either ready to play right away or one year away from ready through the draft. Plekanec has been underwhelming and inconsistent. Bourque fits the mandate of what this team needs on the wing.

Eller is light years ahead of where Plekanec was at the same age, so you certainly don’t move him out and Desharnais is steadily improving while playing the centrepiece on the best line on this team and one of the better lines in the league.

If you want to see if Eller is going to reach a higher ceiling than Plekanec he needs a more prominent role and not even considering that thought it’s highly likely if not a sliver short of certain that the newly drafted centreman will enjoy a more productive career offensively than Plekanec.

My day job treats me well so I don’t have plans on leaving it but I’ll be surprise if Plekanec is still a Hab beyond June of next year.

“underwhelming and inconsistent”.
Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that he’s a top-5 penalty killer in the NHL, and had 23 (yes…twenty three) different line combinations this year.
Do you think maybe that had something to do with it?
Personally, I think Bourque might have some value on the trade market (perhaps not much, but some may think the way you do), so offer him along with a 2nd rounder, and go get the other beast centre man we need.
Without Pleks, there’s no way our PK would have finished 2nd. He contributed big minutes to the only thing that worked this year.

Ryan has topped 60 points twice in four seasons.
Getzlaf four times in six seasons.
Toews three times in four seasons.
Alfredsson eleven times in 16 seasons.
Nash four times in nine seasons.
Semin three times in six seasons.
Heatley eight times in nine seasons.

My point is most of the players I’ve named are big money players, with little or no PK time.
Every player has up and down seasons, but I believe that Pleks has conditioned himself as a team player without a selfish bone in his body. I don’t know of a better PK specialist in the NHL. There might be 3 or 4 out there as good, but none better. That is worth a chunk of points, IMO.
Doug Jarvis, Bob Gainey and Guy Carbonneau were PK specialists who didn’t necessarily rack up big points, but during their primes, no one would have thought of trading any of them.

EDIT: My player selections are unrealistic to you in your view of what a top forward should be.
In my view, a top #2 centre man who plays PK and shut-down vs. the other team’s no. 1 line is not a top-point specialist.

Bourque can do alot better than he did this season, he has done so before, but it would be important for someone to sit him down and see where he is at before the season starts.
As for Pleks, I’d keep him, but everyone sees him as expendable and a valuable trade asset, though usually they won’t post about what to expect in return.

Pleks > Mike Fisher
Next years draft is said to be quite deep, so piling the picks could be a good idea, but it’s long term improvement.
I’d like to see Eller take on a larger role, but I don’t see him filling Plek’s shoes just yet.
Pleks covers alot of responsibilities for the 2 other young centers, and with White not being so great, I would not feel too comfortable going into next season with DD/Eller/White + whomever.

I would doubt Tinordi jumps the AHL, but if he could he would bring the type of D the Habs need.
I also doubt White’s role as 4th line C, it might have been an off year for him, but he was not good at that role, and the has still desperately need someone to take those important/tough faceoffs.

If you know the pick is top 10 then maybe you consider it. If it’s outside the top 10, then the pick will likely project to a 2nd line player. Sure, there’s some upside, but there’s also bust potential and time value to consider. In short, we take a 2nd line sure thing, and turn in into a 2nd line ‘maybe’.

Don’t forget he had more point than M Richards, Kesler, Laich, and was pretty close to Backes, Getzlaf and others. This with getting way more PK time than any centers above him in scoring.

The offensive production isn’t there to justify him being a number one centreman. None of this is personal. It’s just a desire to have an offensively gifted number one centreman and I believe it’s reasonable to conclude that the defense wouldn’t suffer to the point where it wouldn’t justify the move with Eller and Desharnais behind him.

Please feel free to put this under the “stupid things Jim has posted” pile but is Timmins’ job as safe as Molsons? Given the fact that most scouting has been complete and the importance of this draft to the Habs future isn’t it too late to replace him if a new GM so desires?

I think that Timmins is pretty safe. Other than the brain fart of taking Fischer instead of Giroux, Timmins’ draft record in the high rounds is very solid. While nobody is as safe as the guy that signs all the cheques, I’ll say that he’s more secure in his position than Pierre Gauthier was on March 15th.

Can people please tell WTF is going today? All I am reading here are respectful exchanges and good ideas being bandied about. I thought we were Habs fans!! I thought we devour our young!!! I thought we were divided and perpetually at each others throats!!!

C’mon Geoff!!! Do something crazy like hire Pierre McGuire as GM and Patrick Roy as coach so we can start the HIO games again!!

HR1. No need to comment because I know you’d love to see that scenario happen. 😉

Keep in mind that Getzlaf is going to be a UFA next summer. Giving up 3 huge pieces of the team’s present and short-term future for a guy that could just as easily walk next summer would be ridiculously short-sighted.
———————–
GO HABS GO! 2011-12 is probably not our year!
“Scott Gomez is an elite NHL player” – VancouverHab

When there is absolutely nothing in the post to suggest sarcarm, i.e. a blinky face, and it’s a post that is sadly not too far removed from other trade proposals involving Plekanec and/or Getzlaf, I simply assume that a person is being forthright in their comments. Shame on me for such an Internet crime, I guess.

Watching Philly the other night and realized they are nto a big team by any stretch….6 forwards under 6 feet (giroux, briere, read, talbot, rinaldo and wellwood and one d at 5’10” in Timmonen). They have a big d corps and some very tough and skilled players but they have plenty of “smurfs” or at least that is what they would be called if they had lost the series.

Every one of the forwards under 6 feet that you mentioned save for Briere plays as if they’re 6’6.

And by the way I have to take this opportunity to rub it in that I predicted the Flyers to win and said the Pens would be lucky if it went six games. I believe you had a different opinion of how that series would go down.

Yup, guilty as charged…thougth the PEns were on a path to the finals…not sure what happened to Fleury and their composure but a team that was so rock solid the last couple of seasons was giving up numbers straight out of the 1980’s….did not see that coming for sure.

Sports networks want to make money.
The only way they make money is through getting readers/viewers. The only way to get readers/viewers is to have material someone would like to read/view.
Nobody knows who Bergevin, Brisebois, Loiselle, Lacroix , Giguere etc. are, so nobody reads those stories.
Everybody knows who Roy and Mcguire are, so people naturally will read those stories.
The media is just trying to manufacture candidates so that they will be able to make a couple bucks off a situation where they know people want news, when there really isn’t much news to give. Unfortunately, this can have a negative effect because they make people believe that these unlikely, under-qualified people are the best choice, and when they’re not chosen, the ignorant fans get angry.

That was not exactly an uncommon opinion in the year 2005. We had Jose Theodore, Yann Danis, and Cristobal Huet, after all! Obviously in the year 2012 the idea of picking Brule instead of Price is absurd, but hindsight’s 20/20.

Dave, you’ve often cited the placement in the standings as a standard by which to conclude where a team should be to determine their probability of winning the Cup. You pointed out a couple of flaws or the odd anomaly to the system of rating 1 through 5 or 1 through 8.

I looked back since the lockout shortened season and saw that only three teams have had less than 45 regular season wins and gone on to win the Cup. All three(Detroit twice and Carolina once) occurred when ties were awarded and none have since the lockout obviously.

And with that, barring the incredibly unlikely. The Rangers, Bruins, Flyers, Devils, Blues, Preds or Blackhawks will win the Stanley Cup.

I think this system opens up the field a bit more but it’s no less accurate and accounts for tight races in the standings where a potentially elite team might be a couple of points out of the top 5 or top 8.

I think parity will allow for more opportunities for the lesser lights to shine, but given the play-off structure the odds still favour one of the better teams to go all the way. Even if it is true that only top 5 teams win the Cup (which it isn’t as there are examples of top 10 teams winning) it still leaves only a 1 in 5 chance to do so. In my opinion though, teams finishing outside this sweet spot (or 45 wins) makes the odds much more stacked against them.

I think my major point of contention in all this as has been noted by HiB is that I’d like to see the Habs be considered a power house in the future. Something they haven’t been since the 70’s, barring possibly the 1989 team, and even then they were a defensive powerhouse and not known for putting the puck in the net.

Youre not crazy. My wife also picked the panthers to win (after I took a pretty sweet 20-1 bet -at the time- on NJ that looks like its going to the crapper now), she knows nothing about hockey, doesnt watch it, but each year I name the teams in the playoffs and she has a knack for picking a team that’ll go deep, even picking the Stars to win the cup a couple years back.

[Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

I think everyone agrees that the better the regular season, the better your chances in the playoffs. Essentially, it is a simple and accurate theory. However, there are exceptions when a team may have a significant injury or injuries which prevent team from attaining the 45 wins or the high seeding but get healthy in time for the team to gel and have a good run in the playoffs.

I think the main point you and HH and others are making is valid, in that we want the Habs organization to become an elite team again, and not just be a team satisfied to be good enough to make the playoffs.

I think we all want that, but along the way to the top there will be 6th, 7th and possibly 8th place finishes, and you can never rule out how good of a run the team can get on.

That much I can also agree with. If a team finishes 8th in the conference and then 6th the next season one can hope it is a sign the team will finish 4th or perhaps win the division.

As it stands the Habs went to 15th. Which is why the Habs are hard to figure out. Are they a team that over-achieved in the past two years and showed their true colours this season, or are they a team that showed that it has some decent pieces in place but was poorly constructed in the off season and ill prepared for the regular season once it started. I tend to see that a little of both points of view are valid.

What can clearly be ascertained is that the Habs are not elite by any stretch of the imagination.

I don’t think it was reasonable for this organization to have expected the playoffs with Weber, Diaz and Emelin seeing important roles on defense and Plekanec, Cammalleri and Gionta on one line.

Having said that, Gauthier’s work might not be as poor as it’s believed to be right now. Adding Bourque could still prove to be a piece that pays huge dividends and the forward group as constructed is not in any worse shape than many dangerous or elite teams in the East. For example, I’d far rather have our forward group than the Devils, Rangers, Panthers, Senators, Capitals and many other non-playoff teams in the East.

Bob McKenzie said last night that he doesn’t expect Vigneault to get the boot, and I tend to agree. Goaltending issues and superstar injuries aside, he’s coach this team to back-to-back President trophies, not a small feat. Coaching was not why the Canucks lost the series.

“There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
– Jerry Maguire

I sense a trade more than anything. Don’t be surprised if it’s Schneider shipped instead of Luongo. Easier contract to move, younger with more upside means a better return.

As for Vigneault, he got a raw deal here and probably gonna get another raw deal. The thing is, Luongo didn’t have an epic collapse on a Fleury-esque level, although Schneider put up much better numbers. Vancouver only put up 8 goals in 5 games. Burrows blew hard as did their entire defensive corps with the exception of Edler.

“There’s genius everywhere, but until they turn pro, it’s like popcorn in the pan. Some pop… some don’t.”
– Jerry Maguire

Although Vancouver is a much more talented team than Montreal “in every dept” their management made the same mistakes about not getting enough big scoring tough guy’s who can and will dish it right back at you “something Ottawa did right!” and being the game’s about winning it all ,it’s a joke to me that any management that don’t understand this reality even got their job to begin with!

If they would have lost 4-0 then the chances may have been higher. If they would have been blown out once or twice chances would have been higher. If he would have made a big coaching gaff chances would have been higher. None of these things happened and his team played a somewhat competitive series against a decent team and lost. He’s not going anywhere

It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if Vigneault were fired. Gillis is going to need a scapegoat for an embarrassing and quick first round exit. The scores weren’t lopsided, but the difference in the standings going in was.

Agree again, Gillis will make Vigneault the scapegoat if he has to, and then get his chance to bring in “his” guy. All GM’s tend to do this and owners usually give the GM a chance to hire their coach. Just as in Toronto this year, Technically Burke didn’t hire Wilson, so now he has been given his chance to bring in his guy. If this fails for another year, then the GM is next for chopping.

That may conceptually make sense as a reward, but owners will never go for it, they need that playoff revenue and a team getting swept would only get 1 home revenue gate (if the lower seed is swept), that wouldn’t cut the mustard with many owners.

I’m not sure what Mattyleg is suggesting by asking if the regular season is too long, but he’s right that it’s not just one season. In the past 7 years, the president’s cup winner has lost in the first round 4 times. Number 1 overall has lost more often in the first round than they’ve won. There’s no doubt that anything can happen in the playoffs.

Since 1994 when the Conference format was introduced every Cup winner was top 5 (over-all) save 3 that were top 10. Those 3 cases:
1995 Devils at 9th in a shortened lock-out season.
2008 Pens at 8th a year after they finished 3rd and were Stanley Cup finalists.
2011 Bruins at 7th in a year when the difference between 2nd and 8th was 4 points.

I never said an 16th place team can’t win the Cup. What I said is that if it happens, because it hasn’t happened yet, it will be an anomaly and an exception. What I have always maintained is that teams that are best in the regular season are contenders and not those that back into the play-offs. Parity is changing things to a certain degree but home ice advantage means a lot. One only need look to the Mighty Duck – Devils series.

Yes the Oilers made it to the finals. What happened to them after? Same for the Flames. Both teams fizzled out.

It isn’t exactly fair to include the Flames considering they were robbed of a Cup on a good goal disallowed.

I agree with your point though. I would instead of going by points set the bench mark at 45 regular season wins

Edit: Detroit(twice) and Carolina are the only teams who’ve won the Cup with less than 45 regular season wins and they all occurred when ties were awarded. During that same time period of course(Didn’t include the lockout shortened season)

Not really,half the eastern conference favourites either have been or are on the brink of elimination. Now the nucks are gone,the hawks and wings though both lower seeds were the favoured to win,now the wings are out and the the hawks may follow tonight. Habs in burlington is actually right,the difference between 1 and 8 in this era of hockey over a 7 game series is very little.

Hi Matty. The 82 game season is here to stay for one big reason. Money. Owners and league officials gave limited interest in the good of the game its about profit and how much of it they can squeeze from Matty and Jim.
The flip side to your thought is that too many teams qualify for the playoffs and the number should be decreased. The same argument for a shorter season holds true for this option also. Greed. I still love the game though.

Is it just me or does Ovi look a lot like Gomez out there
– skating the puck in to the offencive zone, giving it away and finding himself out of position on the backcheck
– the passes to no one
– always out of position
– staying out too long on his shifts

I believe that Alain Vigneault has made his share of mistakes as coach of the Canucks.

He named his goalie captain, he’s allowed the Sedin’s to hold him hostage(not that others haven’t allowed it), he hasn’t been very good with acquisitions and young players(Tanev was among the Canucks’ best defensemen, as was Ballard but both see scarce icetime in limited roles) and he didn’t have a good relationship with Hodgson which essentially lead to him being traded.

Now having said that. Their playoff losses fall on Mike Gillis. From day one he’s been a whiner and complainer and it’s trickled down through the organization. They complain at the hint of being slighted instead of focusing on hockey.

– Gillis also stripped the goalie of the captaincy.
– He traded Hodgson for a dog’s breakfast return.
– He gave up a 2nd round pick for Lapierre(many here thought Gauthier got a bad return, how about Gillis vastly overpaid?)
– He put Michael Grabner on waivers two seasons ago, betcha he woulda helped in the last two post-seasons.

Gillis got himself a GM or executive of the year award last season based on his team overcoming the Blackhawks. Nothing more. The players and Vigneault did that, not him.

Hmmm… I just hope we get a Boston-Philly series. Don’t me wrong I hate both teams with a passion. I just want to see them beat the living crap out of each other and then for Philly to come out on top and then lose to a Western team… preferably the Kings.

Mind you if Washington wants to eliminate the Bruins, then by all means…

@snowmanhab85 – Patrick Marleau like Rene Bourque is a western kid who doesn’t speak a word of French. He has a NTC and when Gainey tried to get him earlier said NYET to Montreal. Thought all had got him out of their system. Not happening…

Lol. Not saying Habs should try to get him but that I’m just saying that I have a sick feeling that’ll he be in a Habs uni when season starts. Besides, Marleau’s contract ends 2 seasons after this. Marleau does have a NMC.

“Responding to the media , or playing to the media, or listening to the fans is the quickest way to start losing” – Sam Pollock

You bring up an intriguing topic. Given that at the conclusion of hard-fought playoff series, honor and tact have the opposing players shake hands with what are often bitter rivals (unless you are Martin F. Brodeur and Sean F. Avery). So if Thomas despises some of his hockey opponents, why is he such a phony in shaking hands with these folks in the aftermath of a series. On top of that, an invitation to be commerorated by the leader of the nation is a huge honor. Honor is too complex a concept for Thomas.

Speaking truthfully, I could care less what Thomas thinks of the President or what his political motivations are, he is a good goalie and I just want to see him get rattled and have Semin in his face all night!

i guess he sees it as being different in some way. because hockey is (presumably?) something he’s been playing from a very young age and you always shake hands with the other team. whereas his political opinions would have been formed later and his respect or lack thereof for the administration and its policies aren’t necessarily related to his conduct on the ice.
/end tangent

Just reading the paper this morning and the Red Wings say they are in the same spot they were in 10 years ago. They went after free agents then and that’s what their goal is now. Suter and Parise want to play together and that’s what Detroit wants to accomplish.

Except for a blip when they had Marian Hossa for a non-championship season, the Red Wings have mostly retained their stars for below market value. They may change strategies, but it could cause a backlash from their current players who had signed for below open-market value, a sacrifice made for the chance to be part of a dynastic championship team, that now may not deserve the descriptor “dynastic.”

I think what irks Cherry most -and I agree with him- is the media insinuates that europeans have more skill than canadians, and thats because you cant attribute other hockey qualities to them usually. The same way they assume d-men from Quebec arent worth as much as others. Theres stereotypes everywhere. Euro goalies got to be very much superior than N.A goalies to have any respect etc

[Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.

Jarome Iginla resembles Mats Sundin of old. Their drive to the net, with second tier shooting ability were inspiring (the power move to the net, not the so-so shooting). Some of the laser snipes to the top corners like Kyle Turris in OT, and even the King’s OT goal is a skill all players want but only a few have. Iginla is more capable of “dirty goals.” We have a lower tier of this kind of player in Eric Cole.

Neat comment. Not sure why you included Alex Edler, ’cause the other European-born players are all past Stanley cup champions. And I learned from the post that Seidenberg and Krecji aren’t North American. Poor Joe Thornton. Good player, but odds are long that he will have Yzerman-like late-career success, unless a team’s management pulled a Raymond Bourque type trade for Joe.

What would you think if Habs and Sharks did a forward swap like they did with Heatley and Havlat? Because I have a sick feeling Marleau will be a Hab next season and Plekanec will be a Shark.

My feelings are never wrong, last playoff run the Habs had, I had sick feeling Bs were going to win the cup and I REALLY hoped I was wrong, and at the beginning of this season, I had a sick feeling Habs will in the crapper this season when they lost Cammy and if anyone cares, Campoli game 2 of this season.

“Responding to the media , or playing to the media, or listening to the fans is the quickest way to start losing” – Sam Pollock

@ Snowman All right I’ll give you that he scored 30 goals and at 6.9 mil he’s expensive. Nice player, high salary. The Habs are not one player away from being a cup contender. IMHO any assets that are moved should be traded for young players and draft picks. The rebuild need to be done right. I didn’t mean to dis-purge Marleau. My argument, although poorly presented was more in terms of a long term goal. Sorry to upset you.

Habs have lost way too many 1 goal games this season, If those games were to be score 1 more goal at least 30 of them games, who knows where the Habs would be in the standings right about now.

Long-term is Plekanec is signed long term and Marleau has 2 more years of 6.9m cap hit. Who knows, he might re-sign with us in a Plekanec salary cap hit.

I’m saying probably just player swap, Sharks need some space and Habs need some size and goal scorer.
“Responding to the media , or playing to the media, or listening to the fans is the quickest way to start losing” – Sam Pollock

I tend to agree that a “new” look Habs team is on the way. Depending on the new GM/Coach tandem. which will indicate how the new look will look. I am looking forward to this off season sooooooo much. Going to be fun.

I’m think they’ll trade for Marleau too. After AK46 left, the Habs are short one playoff non-performer. Although Bourque may be that guy, we won’t know until the next time they squeak into the playoffs.

Was Marleau’s best year better than Gomez’s? When is Marleau’s expiry date? Has Marleau recovered from a major concussion, and is he less vulnerable now than Pat Lafontaine, who was 34 when he retired?

Montreal has $45.837 mil spent on next season’s cap. They should be looking to tie up Price and Subban to 5 year deals equaling a hit of about $9 to $10 mil putting cap hit to $55.837mil (or thereabouts).
Gomez must be dropped to Hamilton. There are too many players to sign and not enough room to waste any cap space on him. That means no buyout, just demotion. Business is business and he hasn’t produced enough to remain on the team. His contract is his albatross.
With cap back to $55.837mil minus $7.357mil = $48.48mil, that gives room to sign role players.

I’m not certain how you figure $9-10 mil on 2 players coming off average seasons who are RFA’s. Too much money. 6-7 mil is good for both of them this time. More money on the UFA contract when it happens.

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☞ Wow, that’s a nice lookin’ pair of Crocs!” Said no one ever.☜

I was away on vacation 2 weeks ago when Halak got hurt during the second period of the Blue’s 2nd playoff game. I have looked but I have not been able to find out what happend to him. Was he seriously hurt? Is he out until next year or will he be back in the next round? Elliot has been great so it is easy to understand that they keep playing him but I was just wondering about Halak’s status.

Halak got hurt in Game 2 when Barret Jackman collided with him at the side of the net while Jaro was on his knees.

St. Louis hasn’t missed a beat since inserting Carey Elliott (who was injured for Game 1) in his place.

They call it “lower body” and he was seen wearing a boot, whatever they’ve called up some AHLer to backup Elliott.

At the time of his injury, Halak was leading the playoffs with 20 shutouts, a perfect save pct. and had 50 goals (all game winners) and 55 assists…
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Jack Edwards is a clam, the Bruins & their fans are gutless weasel pukes

Pittsburgh showed that as on-ice players, Evgeni Malkin flat out goes into 2nd gear when Sid Crosby is there. Malkin gets coddled with flattering wingers where Sid gets plumbers like Pascal Dupuis and Tyler Kennedy and still puts up the numbers. I’d say it’s time they deal Geno…

Vancouver has a team full of high profile pretenders and an ugly goalie situation with a world class stopper who can’t play in high profile situations. I’m betting Bobbo gets dealt back to Florida so he can bask in obscurity…

As for the Boston BasTURDS, they are their pathetic selves, whining and cheating and they can hardly handle the soft Capitals. And Washington, holy sheep sh*t, if a team is supposed to take on the personality of their coach and the Caps play NOTHING like Dale Hunter.
Too many European softies, yes, European softies, jump all over me with all your PC BS but it’s true, the North American style player sets the tone for the playoffs and OV, Backstrom, Semin, Johanson etc. ain’t following the path the foot soldiers lay (Chimera, Laich, Brouwer, etc.)

OK enough is enough time to pick your GM, and get this ship on the right track. I am sure Gary ( the crook Bettman ) don’t want you taking any shine of this so exciting playoffs. It’s time to get the peices in place before the draft. Also the coach needs time to figure out a game plan . It is now time, so Tell Gary to kiss off and get ready for next year.

Good morning Cat. I was more surprised that the Flyers won then with the Kings winning but I was happy for you yesterday. In my expert opinion I felt goaltending would be the difference in the Pens favor. Shows you how much I know. I should learn to just keep my mouth shut and enjoy the games.

Maybe Toe Blake didnt know how to gamble…Its like poker, its a crapshoot in a way, but theres still some that manage to stick out above the fray with their consistency. Too many members here make the opinion of TV people the be all end all; just saying we here at HIO are just as good ^_^.

[Disclaimer]: I’m a hockey fan. I care about the habs, but probably not as much as you.