In a conference call posted online yesterday, Rick Santorum said separation of church and state is a Communist idea and has no place in our thinking. What started the Great Lie rolling was a caller’s comments:

[A] number of the things that the far left, a.k.a. the Democrat [sic] Party, and the president is pushing for and accomplishing actually accomplishes a number of the tenets of ‘The Communist Manifesto,’ including the amnesty, the elevation of pornography, homosexuality, gay marriage, voter fraud, open borders, mass self-importation of illegal immigrants and things of that nature. So I think that’s a huge cause for concern that would raise a number of red flags for any politician…

Obviously, pornography and homosexuality and gay marriage etc. are not in The Communist Manifesto. The word “homosexual” itself, while it is 19th century pathology, was not first used in print until 1869, twenty-one years after The Communist Manifesto was written. The caller had – in typical conservative fashion – not actually read the book he was complaining about, and Rick Santorum had likewise not read it, or – also in typical conservative fashion – was willing to pretend the book said something it did not say.

Whatever his reasons, Santorum told the caller,

“The words ‘separation of church and state’ is not in the U.S. Constitution, but it was in the constitution of the former Soviet Union. That’s where it very, very comfortably sat, not in ours.”

Take a listen courtesy of Right Wing Watch if you can’t endure the entire call via the link above:

No, the actual words “separation of church and state” are not there, but the separation is there by virtue of the First Amendment, which forbids the establishment of a state religion. If the state cannot “establish” religion, then of necessity, church and state are separate.

And then there is the not so small issue that the words “wall of separation between church and state” were used by Thomas Jefferson on January 1, 1802, in his famous letter to the Danbury Baptists:

I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state.

That is not the only time Jefferson wrote of church and state. He wrote to Charles Clay in 1815, of the “loathsome combination of church and state.”

And James Madison, who is known as the Father of the Constitution, wrote to Robert Walsh in 1819 that “the morality of the priesthood & the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State.”

Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history.

Jefferson and Madison were both Americans. Neither was a Communist.

Jefferson was right to fear ecclesiastical bodies, as the Religious Right is now seeking to accomplish what the Founding Fathers fought so hard to prohibit.

Religion and government are equally necessary, but their interests should be kept separate and distinct. No legitimate connection can ever subsist between them. Upon no plan, no system, can they become united, without endangering the purity and usefulness of both—the church will corrupt the state, and the state pollute the church. Christianity becomes no longer the religion of God—it becomes the religion of temporal craft and expediency and policy. Instead of being the sacred guide to lead mankind to heaven, it becomes the prostituted instrument of private cupidity and personal ambition.

In fact, far from being un-American, the separation of church and state is something quintessentially American. Americans invented the idea, after all, unlike mom, apple pie, and the flag. From America, it has spread to other nations.

And Communism? Modern Communism, the type Santorum is familiar with, came about as a result of the 1917 Russian Revolution. Before that, we could speak of the Bolsheviks, whom we can date to 1902. Before that we can talk about Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels and The Communist Manifesto of 1848, which introduced to the world the idea that “The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles.”

Obviously, Thomas Jefferson was unfamiliar with all this. Marx was 8 when Jefferson died in 1826.

It did not take atheistic Communism to banish religion from government. That was already accomplished by the Founding Fathers by way of Article VI, paragraph 3 of the Constitution, which forbids religious tests for public office, and the Constitution’s First Amendment, which clearly forbids the establishment of a state religion. One might call the separation of church and state America’s contribution to the European Enlightenment.

The First Amendment’s wall of separation was, in a way, the final act severing the New World from the Old World’s long history of religious wars and oppression. And if anything here is un-American, it is Rick Santorum and the Religious Right which spawned him, for seeking to undo an essential component of that American recipe for religious freedom that is the Founders’ legacy not only to us, but the world.

Rick Santorum Lyingly Claims Separation of Church and State is Communist and un-American was written by Hrafnkell Haraldsson for PoliticusUSA.

Hrafnkell Haraldsson, a social liberal with leanings toward centrist politics has degrees in history and philosophy. His interests include, besides history and philosophy, human rights issues, freedom of choice, religion, and the precarious dichotomy of freedom of speech and intolerance. He brings a slightly different perspective to his writing, being that he is neither a follower of an Abrahamic faith nor an atheist but a polytheist, a modern-day Heathen who follows the customs and traditions of his Norse ancestors. He maintains his own blog, A Heathen's Day, which deals with Heathen and Pagan matters, and Mos Maiorum Foundation www.mosmaiorum.org, dedicated to ethnic religion. He has also contributed to NewsJunkiePost, GodsOwnParty and Pagan+Politics.

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Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

Proverbs 13:5 A righteous man hates lying: but a wicked man is loathsome, and comes to shame.

Proverbs 14:5 A faithful witness will not lie: but a false witness will utter lies.

Proverbs 17:7 Excellent speech becomes not a fool: much less do lying lips a prince.

Notice how lying is an “abomination to the LORD” just like Santorum and the religious right’s favorite deviant sin.

JC

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:13 am

“And if anything here is un-American, it is Rick Santorum and the Religious Right which spawned him, for seeking to undo an essential component of that American recipe for religious freedom that is the Founders’ legacy not only to us, but the world.”

And then there is the mind-numbing stupidity of the religious right who are too ignorant to comprehend the principle of separation of church and state. Being here in rural Texas, I see this on a nearly daily basis in our local news feeds, the outrage when they can’t put their nativity scene on the courthouse lawn, etc.

e brent gingell

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:21 am

if i remember my history correctly, the reason we came here was to get away from the english forcing the church of england upon us

Robyn Ryan

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 11:41 am

You’re being too kind to Europe. People fled the Continent to escape being tortured, burnt alive, massacred and starved to death. For Jesus.

Mr. Frothy and his ilk needs to be thoroughly beaten with an illustrated history of religious war in Europe 1100 – 2014.

Then locked in a room with the ghosts of Oliver Cromwell and James II.

pattiepea

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:26 am

Rick Santorum has always been a liar wrapped with an American flag and holding a bible. Rick wouldn’t know the truth if God served the truth on a platter. The idea that he or anyone thinks he is Presidential material is laughable. Rick is just one notch above Sarah Palin and Duck Dynasty.

In school we were taught about the Constitution and the separation of church and state. Rick Santorum is an unprincipled lying moron.

Yogi29073

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:49 am

Ah, to be honest, I think he is BELOW or equal to the other two deviant fools you mentioned.
Go figure.

Yogi29073

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 9:01 am

Santorum has always been a religious “nut job”. I think he took lessons from the other Anti Christ ted cruz. Both are very capable of taking a lie and making into a sound bite that is quoted by the media.
What I find so disturbing about the whole “far right religious nut wing goons” is the fact that the trash they have spewed froth has now become the policy of the GOP.
From attempting to make Christianity the main religion of Mississippi via a law now in the state legislature, to louie groumets asking a government employee in committee if he doesn’t believe in the “light and the way”,(a clear religious test, which is Unconstitutional) the religious right is slowly creeping its way into attempting to change our Constitution to obliterate that “wall of separation” so necessary to keep our civil freedoms of religion in place.
What is so unsettling is they may actually do it, and that would be very dangerous to our freedoms…very dangerous!!!

Shiva

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:43 am

There is no religion here but a grab by certain church or cult leaders for power.

Religion cannot be a beneficial leader. It has to maintain its power in any way possible lest the people find a new religion or leave the religion that will be “required”.

Religious rule is never peaceful or to the peoples benefit. It is repressive and as the article states, the religion is no longer concerned with the belief system they started with but only with holding power and gaining wealth. This is today’s conservatives and fundamentalists who are using each other.

JCBlues

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 9:03 am

like a broken record I continue to say the most ardent ‘defenders’ of the Constitution haven’t really ever read it… carrying around a copy of any document in your pocket doesn’t mean you’re going to absorb it thru osmosis…

wasn’t it George Orwell, in 1984, that wrote about re-writing history to conform to the government’s needs? Santorum and his ilk would like to re-write history so they can take over the government…

Joseph P. Uhl

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 10:17 am

May I submit strongly that YOU Rick Santorum are the one who is Un-American and not communist but should be COMMITTED!!!

gsb

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 2:15 pm

OH! Mr Uhl. if only that were a possibility.

Kim Serrahn

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 10:39 am

Who knew we were a communist country all along. I want to thank Rick for pointing that “fact” out to us all.
What a meshugener.

I see one “This is not for me vote” beneath the article already and I’m sure there will be 5 or 6 by day’s end. There is a number of trolls here who downvote every article but never comment. So what is going through their heads? How they can support such blatant hypocrisy, ignorance, and lying from supposedly religious, God-fearing & Bible-adhering, honourable “leaders” is just unbelievable. Where are your ethics? Are politics and race more important to them than being a good human being, loving others as you love yourself, doing unto others as you would have others do to you, etc.? It certainly appears so and this alone isolates them from their goal of being good Christians and their place in “Heaven”. If God chose to come down and punish the wicked he/she would incinerate these hypocrites first for their falsehood. As an atheist, even I hope that comes to pass.

DownriverDem

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 9:23 am

Most likely the trolls are scared whimpy white men who are motivated by all the repub lies, propaganda and brainwashing they have been exposed to for the last 30+ years. No wonder folks in European countries think we are racist and ignorant. It makes me want to puke.

Boscoe

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 1:35 pm

No, No, Santorum is right. So please someone inform him that we’ll be implementing Sharia immediately, and thank him for clarifying what the Founders intended. :P

Shiva

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 1:40 pm

LOL!

Mintie

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 2:29 pm

You call Santorum a liar, but the sad truth is he’s just an idiot. No, really, I’ve met the man. He’s a stone-cold moron, to such a level that he simply does not have the brain power to comprehend how wrong he is.

Suzanne Moore

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 8:35 pm

Well, he is the one who said women couldn’t get pregnant from being raped because “something” in their bodies prevented it under such circumstances. If only that WERE true. But it isn’t, and he IS a stoned moron.

Buhe1

Thu, Dec 4th, 2014 at 12:11 pm

Rick is worse then a lier because he strictly lives in a fantasy world where he thinks he’s telling the truth.

People like him and his followers are the reason why the 1st admendment was created because they expect people to believe what tbey believe or else.

Danny Adams

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 7:04 pm

“Every new & successful example therefore of a perfect separation between ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance. And I have no doubt that every new example, will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt. will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”

-James Madison, letter to Edward Livingstone, 1822

“When religion is good, it will take care of itself. When it is not able to take care of itself, and God does not see fit to take care of it, so that it has to appeal to the civil power for support, it is evidence to my mind that its cause is a bad one.”

-Benjamin Franklin, letter to Richard Price, 1780

Danny Adams

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 7:05 pm

“Resolve that neither the State nor Nation, nor both combined shall support institutions of learning other than those sufficient to afford to every child growing up in the land the opportunity of a good common school education, unmixed with sectarian, pagan, or atheistical dogmas. Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the Church, and the private school, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the Church and State forever separate.”

-Ulysses S. Grant, speech before the convention of the Society of the Army of the Tennessee meeting in Des Moines, Iowa, 1875

LookingForward

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 7:42 pm

To Mintie….that’s frightening! But then I just look at Cruz, Palin, Louie Gohmert, et al and realize that whole RW is batsh!t nuts…..
If they disagree with history books (Jefferson and Madison’s influence )they will just buy them back, burn them, and rewrite to their liking!

Mintie

Tue, Dec 2nd, 2014 at 8:55 pm

That’s what happens when you’re raised in a vacuum, which so many of these people are.

Suzanne Moore

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 8:40 pm

Wouldn’t be the first time Christians burned all the “heathen” and “infidel” books…

kmom4kids

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 5:49 am

Rick Santorum sold his soul and mind to right wing policy’s long ago. He makes a living lying and distorting facts. So glad when Pa. finally rid themselves of this delusional man. It proves that the right wingers follow blindly,neither reading nor care to know the real facts. If they only read their pocket Constitions they might be shocked. The truth would deflate them.

Anne B.

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 5:54 am

Santorum needs to debate Thomas Jefferson, John Adams and James Madison about the separation of church and state.

Anne B.

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 6:06 am

For starters:

“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the Common Law.” – President Jefferson;
1. 5. “The Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion.”
~1797 Treaty of Tripoli signed by John Adams;
“Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity.”
-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

djchefron

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 7:31 am

Religion is not guarded; there is no bill of rights declaring that religion should be secure. Is a bill of rights a security for religion? Would the bill of rights, in this state, exempt the people from paying for the support of one particular sect, if such sect were exclusively: established by law? If there were a majority of one sect, a bill of rights would be a poor protection for liberty. Happily for the states, they enjoy the utmost freedom of religion. This freedom arises from that multiplicity of sects which pervades America, and which is the best and only security for religions liberty in any society; for where there is such a variety of sects, there cannot be a majority of any one sect to oppress and persecute the rest.

— James Madison, Speech To The Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 12, 1788.

James M. Martin

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 8:34 am

As Santorum well knows, his own claim that C&S separation is a myth is “the Great Lie.”

Rod Wagner

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 9:58 am

Many have died separating “Church and State” in Europe. Many have died in defending our own “Separation of Church and State” and our way of life. Rick ‘Sanatorium,’ would enslave every American to a “Christian Taliban” government and that in my opinion makes Rick a traitor to the Constitution and Bill of Rights. He is a power hungry religious politician who has sold his soul, (if he has one), to the highest bidder.

Rod Wagner

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 10:27 am

The Roman Church is who Ricky is referring to. With approximately 41,000 Christian denominations, with 41,000 different interpretations, which one gets to be THE “Religion of the state” in Rick’s insane desire? “I want my religion to rule!!!” Multiplied by 41,000.

dw

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 10:28 am

41,000 Christian denominations that don’t agree with each other. This is what we need in our government. And tell me which one is right for our right wing to use for their own manipulation of government. The fact that there are 41,000 divisions that don’t agree should be a clue to the importance of separation of church and state.

Shiva

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 10:44 am

the kicker for me has always been not how many divisions there are, but how many gods there are and have been. I mean seriously, there have been well over 1000 gods in time and each one of them was a true god according to someone. Christians have a true god, Muslims have a true God, Hindus certainly have the true God’s while Buddhism doesn’t have a God but a being made up of all of us. It’s a problem trying to decide what the true God is and is almost wholly determined by where you are born

watergirl

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 2:43 pm

Funny,Christianity is not mentioned in the Constitution anywhere either.

Suzanne Moore

Wed, Dec 3rd, 2014 at 8:48 pm

Right, the Constitution never mentions God. That was totally deliberate.

Kevin D. Curtis

Fri, Dec 5th, 2014 at 11:18 am

Separation of Church and State arrives in North America, February 5, 1631.
Roger Williams, pioneer of religious tolerance, arrives in North America. A champion of religious freedom and the separation of church and state, in 1636 he began the colony of Providence Plantation for religious minorities. Williams started the first Baptist church in America. He was an advocate for fair dealings with Native Americans and organized the first attempt to prohibit slavery in any of the original thirteen colonies. -1631

Shiva

Fri, Dec 5th, 2014 at 11:21 am

And to think the Baptist convention was created to defend slavery

Clydene

Sat, Dec 6th, 2014 at 4:27 pm

What do they teach in school/college in Texas and is he not a Constitutional Lawyer?? Guess his religion allowed him to skip that part about our forefathers.

Santorum suffers from ignorance. Ricky boy, our forefathers were under the rule of a Monarchy – the King of England. The last thing they wanted was a ruler, president, etc., who acted like a God and who pushed religion down their throats as you do in Texas. Therefore, you are totally illiterate to even assume that religious freedoms means that the government promotes religion or has the right to mix in your religion in any way.

This is totally stupid for a Constitutional Lawyer to even go there. Santorum needs a real education because he missed the boat on the one he got. Again, what are they teaching in the schools/colleges in Texas.

TerryLF

Sat, Dec 6th, 2014 at 5:08 pm

Republicans don’t have to be correct in what they say, they know their base is ignorant and that they will not take even 30 seconds to fact-check what they say.

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 10:53 am

You have to love an article that calls someone a liar, and then lies and distorts through the whole article….. And you fools just eat it right up. FACT… Separation of church and state is NOT in stated, only that congress cannot force religion. FACT: Communist manifest #13 states “A complete separation of Church and State…” If you are going to lie, at least lie about something that cant be dis proven in all of about 2 minutes.

Shiva

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 10:59 am

LOL, then I guess you missed the Jefferson letter to the Danbury church.

Santorum cant talk without lying

BTW, there are only 10 planks in the Manifesto. Learn to research before you make a fool of yourself

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:15 am

Pretty sure the “Jefferson letters” are not the Constitution. He said ” … not in the USA Constitution” I stand corrected on the planks, but in the book “The Communist Manifesto: A Road Map to History’s Most Important Political …
By Karl Marx, Friedrich Engels” Page #155, point #13….. States “seperation of church and state… ( Pretty much the same thing right)?

Shiva

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:18 am

No but the Jefferson letters provide intent that the religion remains separate from the constitution. Separating religion and government is not a novel or new idea. Religion in government has proved to be brutal everywhere its every been used. In the US it comes from the Church of England running the English government.

Your girl santorum simply wants religion in control. Run with the commie thing all you want, but you are just a pawn for santorum and religion

reynardine

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:27 am

Guess what? The Communist Manifesto uses words like “and”, “but”, “either”, “or”, and “nor”, so anyone who uses conjunctives and disjunctives is clearly a Communist.

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:27 am

So you are saying that Rick was not lying and the article is. Im glad we can agree on something.

Shiva

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:28 am

No, Rick is lying. He totally disregards the founders and seeks a false path

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:36 am

Can you please show me where in the Constitution it states separation of church and state (thats what he said). I already showed you were its part of the communist platform ( which is what he also said) You may not agree with what he said, but it is factually correct, and certainly not a “lie” Therefore the article may disagree with what he said, or the “intention” of the founders, it is clearly lying by calling him a liar.

Shiva

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 11:39 am

In strict terms yes, santorum for one instance is not lying. However the constitution states the government may not be part of a religion.

Citing some book doesnt cut it, you (and frothy) are saying the intent of the founders was to create a communist state. That is a lie. Therefor frothy is going down a ridiculous path trying to discredit the founders.

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 12:06 pm

The first amendment to the US Constitution states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.. where I agree that reasonable be people can disagree on the actual meaning, to call someone a liar for there interpretation is where I had the problem with this article. As far as just “citing some book”, did you see read the title of the the book and who wrote it? I don’t think you can get a better source than that.

Shiva

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 12:56 pm

You and Frothy are calling the founders commies. You are using something that has nothing to do with the constitution. Frothy simply goes out of his way to lie

A Anders

Fri, Dec 19th, 2014 at 1:23 pm

Actually,( calling the founders commies) you couldn’t be farther from the truth, I think the liberal interpretation that government can have nothing to do with religion, is pushing us more toward the communist idea.
What the first amendment says to me is that government cant force religion, not that it cant be a part of it. No “STATE” religion. But the most important part is that congress shouldn’t stop the FREE exercise of religion.