I am going to build a pair of 4411 clones, thanks to a forum member offering me a pair of 044 tweeters I can build what I want instead of mixing together different drivers. I have not seen a pair of 4411 speakers up close in 2 decades so I am am hoping I can get some help from the forum on a few things,

Were the front baffles painted or was a vinyl veneer applied? What was the original finish like. smooth or textured?

Was the rear of the cabinet flush or indented 1/4 inch?

I already have the box vulume and porting dimentions worked out, I am using 1.6 cu ft with a 3 inch tube. I would like to use furniture grade plywood for the sides rather than MDF, I will use MDF for the front and back. I hope the plywood does not adversely affect the sound too much.

If anyone can post pictures or help me with some front baffle distances I would appreciate it. I will post some pictures of this as I go along, should be interesting.

Akira

08-12-2005, 09:19 AM

if you need further info post...i've owned these speakers for 8 years and never really got into them so there's not a lot i could tell you...except measurement. good luck with your project. everyone here would enjoy pic updates.

DMMD

08-12-2005, 09:42 AM

if you need further info post...i've owned these speakers for 8 years and never really got into them so there's not a lot i could tell you....

Well, I guess you can send them to me.... I love 'em.

duaneage

08-13-2005, 03:16 AM

I noticed the foam around the grill frame. Is that original or was it added later? My 128H woofers have foam surrounds instead of accordian, are your woofers 123s?

I am making mirror image pairs for improved imaging. I had to move the midrange away from the woofer slightly to allow the midrange enclosure to fit behind.

I'll get some pics of it so far. don't think i'll use blue cloth, WAF is higher for black

Lancer

08-13-2005, 06:28 AM

No wonder he isn't too wild about the 4411, his have the wrong woofers...
I wonder what bright bulb put those in there...

Akira

08-14-2005, 05:51 PM

No wonder he isn't too wild about the 4411, his have the wrong woofers...
I wonder what bright bulb put those in there...

don't know much about this series 4310 offspring...i do know that the bass and mid sound really good, very tight well defined and clear, quite a surprise when tested in open air. hate the metalic sound of the 044HF's.

so what are the proper drivers? these are 2213H @ 8ohms

duaneage

08-15-2005, 05:01 AM

The correct woofers are the 128H series. They have a foam surround and work really well in small boxes considering they are 12 inch woofers.

How deep does that 3 inch port go into the box? How long to you figure it is.?

Akira

08-16-2005, 10:31 AM

the port is exactly 6" deep (end to baffel) and uses the popular 3" diameter tube.
this 12" sounds great. i would never trade in the accordian style surround. stiffness limitations aside...30 plus years of life.

Lancer

08-16-2005, 11:07 AM

this 12" sounds great. i would never trade in the accordian style surround. stiffness limitations aside...30 plus years of life.Personally knowing the designers of this system, I'm really glad they didn't feel the same way. ;)

Robh3606

08-16-2005, 11:33 AM

Here's what a 128H vs a 2213H looks like in WinIsd.

Rob:)

johnaec

08-16-2005, 11:40 AM

Green is 128H?

John

clmrt

08-16-2005, 11:49 AM

I've been wondering about those bloated curves. Same with the 125 / 127 in the 36 / 26, a big old bump in the response. Sealing the port flattens the curve and gives a high Q of around 1.1.Did Lansing et al purposefully make the bass behave this way? My L88's were WAY over the top in that area, the 36's and 26's less so.

Sorry if this is a hijack.:blink:

Zilch

08-16-2005, 12:08 PM

Did Lansing et al purposefully make the bass behave this way? To match the bloated upper mids, perhaps? :p

[Sorry....]

duaneage

08-16-2005, 07:58 PM

Here is a shot of the front baffle board routed out for the 2105 mid. The midrange can is visible through the hole. I used a 5 inch pvc electrical coupler for the can and plugged the rear with a 3/4 inch particleboard slug. 4 ich pvc was too small and I did not want to build a box.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00466.jpg

duaneage

08-16-2005, 08:05 PM

Here is a wider shot with the woofer and port holes cut. All I am waiting for now are the 044 tweeters from Vertical800 and I can cut those holes next. I will use brass wood inserts for the midrange screws to prevent hitting the mid can. The woofer cutout is routed so the 128 H is almost flush. The baffle board will sit on top of the sides rather than inserted. I like the cleaner look of the baffle that way.

A plywood backer was added to add support for the woofer and give the mounting screws more wood to work with. The midrange can is mounted in a groove I cut with the router that is about 1/4 inch deep. Gorilla glue was used to attach it to the baffle, the expanding action of the glue worked perfectly to seal the can.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00461.jpg

duaneage

08-16-2005, 08:12 PM

The side wall of the cabinet was notched and relieved to allow the L-pads to fit. I brought the foilcal out to the edge rather than recessing them 3/8", again this is a personal preference for a clean looking baffle. It also gave me more room for the grille frame. It was rather difficult to line up the mounting holes to the attenuator board, I had to massage the holes on the first one to fit but got this one right on the first try. Hidden behind the foilcal it should be A-OK

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00462.jpg

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:34 PM

Long time no update.

I finished the project after a delay in getting the tweeters.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00500.jpg

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:35 PM

Da otha 1

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00499.jpg

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:41 PM

I did a few things differently from the originals.

The duct tubes were made from 3 inch pvc elbows. I cut out the middle 6 inches so the port would curve in and down . This puts the opening of the port 1.5 inches from any cabinet wall and reduces high power compression. The foilcals were placed at the edge of the cabinet rather than 3/8" in. I like the look of the foilcals being on the edge although the cabinets had to be routed out for the controls.

The baffle is on top of the sides rather than being framed. This looks cleaner than exposed wood edges framing the baffle and is a favorite technique of mine.

The midrange is flush routed to the cabinet as well as the 128. I am going to shim the 128 out 3/16" though because it is difficult to remove once in the cabinet. But Ido like the flush mounting so I may keep it.

I used stainless steel hardwre for the driver mounting, i have to paint over the tweeter screws yet.

I have not made grills yet. Waiting for a rainy day for that project.

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:47 PM

The port seamlessly blends into the baffle board, I think better than the originals. I cut a 3 inch hole through the front then a 3 1/4" relief on the baffle board rear was made so the pvc pipe slips into the rear tightly. Gorilla glue was used to glue the pipe in place. After the glue dried I used a Dremel tool to sand flush the baffle with the opening. The result is a professional looking port transistion
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00502.jpg

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:51 PM

The sides are made with 3/4 inch red oak plywood. I think the MDF is a better choice acoustically but the plywood was acquire real cheap and I wanted to try it. I used a rather dark stain, two treatments, to give it a walnut appearance. I was warned that there would be a red tint but I don't notice any. One downer iturned out to be glue on the veneer that came through as light patches. I guess I could sand them doen again and restain, If anyone has an opinion on doing that let me know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/duaneage/DCP00501.jpg

duaneage

10-06-2005, 09:59 PM

Listening tests ranged from Jazz to disco and classic rock to spoken word.

I don't like the room they are in, too many hard surfaces and no good sitting positions. I plan to use them for reviewing vinyl records that I have cleaned up with Sound Forge and audio processors.

I found the lower midrange to be a bit brighter than I thought they would be. The 2105 has a 1 db advantage over the LE5-9 so I lowered the midrange level a bit. Imaging is incredible. Almost surround sound like.
The bass is super tight. The 128H woofers have new surrounds and are bit tight. The surrounds are pretty firm compared to the grey originals. T/S tests revealed the values were changed a bit but in the cabinets they worked out pretty close. I can't complain.

These are very easy speakers to listen to. I know JBL made better, but I am estatic with them. I made a few mistakes making them but I learned quite a bit and I am ready for my next two projects, L100T3 and a redesign of a pair of Polk Audio 10Bs I have (whoops, should have not let that slip)