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That's a terrible, idiotic thing for anyone to say, and there's a reason Chipper isn't asked to do much more than show up and accept awards for the Braves any more. That said, harping on "wud" and Twitter syntax is pretty stupid.

Primer highlights ball players being stupid all the time. It's a legitimate conversation on a baseball site. It's no less relevant than Otis Nixon's crack habit.

(to be clear re: my post @2, I am in no way attempting to reduce or deflect the shitstorm Chipper should and will receive for this stupidity, merely pointing out that the grammatical nannying is a distraction from the meat of the problem with this tweet, itself.)

While it's certainly possible to discuss the issues surrounding illegal immigration without making it a racial issue, I don't think it's an enormous stretch to suggest that people who joke about a possible solution being a 'gator filled moat, might have some underlying racist motivations. Especially when the person making the joke occupies the spot on the Venn diagram corresponding to the cross-section of people who played MLB, have only a HS education, and knock up Hooter's waitresses.

He (a) expressed a policy opinion, however loosely (the policy opinion boils down to "stop people from crossing the border illegally") and (b) called people who cross the border illegally "illegals."

He also suggested laying traps in the Rio Grande* for human beings. You boys can hash out the pedantry of whether that measures up to your internal and eternally moving definition of what is or is not "racist." In the meantime, the rest of us will simply feel embarrassed for the fool and regret that our athletes have a public bullhorn via which to make fools of themselves in public.

*playing to the very old, very standard, and generally understood to be *racist* notion of "wetbacks."

Because the people who run this site decided some years ago that baseball wasn't interesting enough to enough people to sufficiently move the hit needle, so they decided instead that they were going to cater to our fanatical cadre of hyperpoliticized left-wingers with lots of free time and no lives, and this group is obsessed with crap just like this "story". You can identify them pretty easily because they generate like 90% of the 160-170 posts a day on the OTP monthly thread.

the policy opinion boils down to "stop people from crossing the border illegally"

Well, making the blanket statement that the "illegals" you want to keep out are Mexicans who will be swimming across the Rio Grande does, at the very least, have some racist overtones.

I'd also be willing to place a wager that Larry doesn't care nearly as much about keeping out the attractive women who come to this country illegally from eastern Europe and end up stripping as he does keeping out male migrant farm workers from Mexico.

Because the people who run this site decided some years ago that baseball wasn't interesting enough to enough people to sufficiently move the hit needle, so they decided instead that they were going to cater to our fanatical cadre of hyperpoliticized left-wingers with lots of free time and no lives, and this group is obsessed with crap just like this "story". You can identity them pretty easily because they generate like 90% of the 160-170 posts a day on the OTP monthly thread.

Did someone fall down and hurt his wittle booby head? Poor, wittle thing. Don't worry, Joey. They're almost certainly assured of a World Series next year.

The Double Dime, named for the uniform numbers worn by father and son, is known as a "hunter's paradise"

If you read between the line, Chipper Jones hunts Mexicans crossing the border near his ranch for sport and the authorities look the other way. This particular man that they found decomposing likely evaded the hunters but then succumb to the heat.

I'd also be willing to place a wager that Larry doesn't care nearly as much about keeping out the attractive women who come to this country illegally from eastern Europe and end up stripping as he does keeping out male migrant farm workers from Mexico.

If you guys can figure out a way to have crocs and gators greet potential tourist visa overstays at JFK passport control, do let us know.

*playing to the very old, very standard, and generally understood to be *racist* notion of "wetbacks."

A couple of months ago I finally got around to reading a book I've owned for well over a decade on the Investigative Reporters & Editors project on the '77-or-so bombing murder of Arizona Republic reporter Don Bolles (the results of which Bolles' own cowardly employers infamously refused to publish, lest they offend the bloody-handed Barry Goldwater among others, but I digress), & I was taken aback at how nonchalantly the author used the term "wetback" in referring to exploited undocumented immigrants. I guess sensibilities (with a few obvious exceptions here & elsewhere) have changed considerably over the last 35 years, but I wonder when that started.

He also suggested laying traps in the Rio Grande* for human beings. You boys can hash out the pedantry of whether that measures up to your internal and eternally moving definition of what is or is not "racist." In the meantime, the rest of us will simply feel embarrassed for the fool and regret that our athletes have a public bullhorn via which to make fools of themselves in public.

*playing to the very old, very standard, and generally understood to be *racist* notion of "wetbacks."

This is silly. You on a daily basis post much worse than this. Do you feel embarrassed on a daily basis for what you say here?

I see his 'jk' Tweet like casually mentioning gas chambers and their potential use for a particular type of people without realizing the brevity of what he is saying.

Maybe Chipper Jones' humor works for a lot of people, particularly in his circles [even if they weren't any more racist / prejudiced than your average person] but I'd rather not hear it from him on Twitter - it makes him look ignorant.

I was taken aback at how nonchalantly the author used the term "wetback" in referring to exploited undocumented immigrants. I guess sensibilities (with a few obvious exceptions here & elsewhere) have changed considerably over the last 35 years, but I wonder when that started.

Why is "wetback" so beyond the pale? Any others? How about "redneck" or "cracker" or "hillbilly" or "brutha" (unless, of course, you are a brutha) or "coonass"? Decorum can get really spinster auntish (oops, another I created one).

FWIW, I have a few friends that told me they don't bother to come here much any more because they no longer find the baseball discussions all that stiumulating or informative. They used to come here to learn things about baseball, but now there just isn't much here that can help people advance their knowledge of the game.

And since they aren't interested in the political and non baseball stuff, they pretty much have left the site.

I still check in every day to see if anything interestin. I like the HOM threads, even though I don't vote. But my activity here is less and less, obviously. My interest to come here is to talk baseball, and there is less baseball talk here than before, ergo....

You know the quickest way to have a conversation about baseball is? To actually talk baseball. There seems to be a lot of passive people who want the conversation to be handed to them on a platter. Well, that isn't how it happens. If you want to talk about the Angels then you need to submit Angels' articles and talk about the Angels. You can't simply wait around and hope someone will post an Angels' article and will have a conversation going by the time you get there.

I think McCoy is right, ShoeGrit. None of us are being paid to entertain you. We're having a conversation. If you don't like the conversation, you don't have to participate. But if you expect to get what you want, you better be prepared to ante up. Entertain us a little. What is you want to talk about? Engage us.

What embarrassment I feel is about being associated with the likes of you lot.

You know the quickest way to have a conversation about baseball is? To actually talk baseball.

I'm in the OMNICHATTERs as often as I'm in the political OTP thread these days. Of course, that might change if someone started making a run at the Braves' lead. At that point I might hide like a Nats fan. Who knows?

(I'm interested to know what I say on a daily basis that grinds McCoy's gears so much, though.)

You don't grind my gears but you stated that Chipper should feel embarrassed because he stated that the Rio should get stocked with gators and meanwhile Sam is well known for being the neck stabber and threatening everyone and everything with a stabbing.

FWIW, I have a few friends that told me they don't bother to come here much any more because they no longer find the baseball discussions all that stiumulating or informative. They used to come here to learn things about baseball, but now there just isn't much here that can help people advance their knowledge of the game.

And since they aren't interested in the political and non baseball stuff, they pretty much have left the site.

I still check in every day to see if anything interesting. I like the HOM threads, even though I don't vote. But my activity here is less and less, obviously. My interest to come here is to talk baseball, and there is less baseball talk here than before, ergo....

Yep. Sadly ShoeGrit, you're far from alone. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of guys who used to post here about baseball, but finally gave up and left within the last two or three years, almost certainly because they got fed up and just couldn't take all the bullcrap any longer.

In fact, many people were complaining about the trend for quite some time, but the site masters didn't really care and they ultimately made the decision to sacrifice quality for red diaper baby quantity. I personally believe they made a huge mistake and having these tiresome blowhards dominate the site sucks, but what's done is done.

I still participate, and I still submit, although less. If you don't believe the focus on this site has shifted immensely over the last 2-3 years then thats fine.

I happen to be a fan of a team that nobody ever wants to talk about unless it's to make fun of Kevin Towers, which I'm down with too.

I have to admit, ever since Dan left to go behind the curtain at ESPN, the dog kind of died for me here. Transaction Oracle, and analysis debates, as well as HOF/HOM, MVP, player evlauation, all that stuff, thats my biggest interest. And there is less of that here now. It's a fact. But there are still some interesting discussions, so I keep coming back.

Joey, why the #### are you still around, since everything about this site seems to offend your brown stained diaper sensibilities? Do you think a single person here ever pays the slightest bit of attention to anything you say, other than brief annoyance? You remind me of the Warren William line in The Dark Horse, where he comments about his own gubernatorial candidate: "Every time he opens his mouth, he subtracts from the sum total of human knowledge." What have you ever contributed to this site except incessant whining?

Go #### in a hat Moursund. Yes, you're the absolute king of the big mouth blowhards; the prime example of what I'm talking about, and congratulations, because unfortunately the site now almost totally caters to the likes of you. You, Hutcheson, and all the rest of your ilk are the biggest reasons why ShoeGrit and so many others like him rarely (if ever) come here any more. I'm sure that he has way too much class to tell you this himself, but I'M telling you. And it's very unfortunate, because in my opinion one of him is worth ten of you.

You, Hutcheson, and all the rest of your ilk are the biggest reasons why ShoeGrit and so many others like him rarely (if ever) come here any more.

If so, then he (or she) is not trying very hard. Go to the Newstand home page. Scan down the list of articles submitted. If you discount this one (which is a questionable decision, but whatever) 19 of the first 20 are about... baseball. Mets demoting players. Mets cutting players. The draft. Yasiel Puig. The Nationals lost season so far. The Royals inability to develop players. Why Ian Kennedy was allowed to throw 50 pitches in an inning.

Baseball, baseball, baseball and more baseball. Daniel Day Lewis talking with a Marlins player about baseball. A guy trampling a kid to get to a baseball. Lots of articles about why the New York teams are so bad at baseball this year. If you're not talking about baseball on this site, it's your own damned fault. Perhaps you should not mistake the Hot Topics bar and the OT threads that linger there as the actual content of the site. Perhaps you should talk about baseball with the baseball fans who are talking about baseball in a hundred other threads, instead.

(Note: the current topic of the "political" thread which Joey's idiotic ass is whinging about is, as far as I can tell, mid-20th century movie and film directors and dialogues... It's also worth noting that only the people that Joey disagrees with politically are "responsible" for the massive comment counts of those OTP threads. Regular OTP participants from the right are, of course, free of blame. Because Joey is an idiot.)

Where do you start with this? First of all, the very people he is mocking probably have a better grasp of the English language than Jones. Sure, people abbreviate on Twitter, but there’s abbreviation and there’s ‘wud’. Secondly, his choice of target, an ethnic minority group, is cowardly. Jones come across as a school yard bully.

Where doYou start with this? First of all, he isn't mocking anybody; if you think he is, then you need a better grasp of the English language. Second, there's nothing remotely racist about it.

I have to admit, ever since Dan left to go behind the curtain at ESPN, the dog kind of died for me here. Transaction Oracle, and analysis debates, as well as HOF/HOM, MVP, player evlauation, all that stuff, thats my biggest interest.

It's a dumb comment for sure, but he clearly meant it as a joke, since he labeled it as such. Chipper actually runs into a lot of immigrants on his ranch. In a story about it a few years back, he talked about how when they're out driving the ranch roads, they keep water on hand, because they often run into groups of lost, dehydrated individuals wandering around. Now, they generally call the authorities to come pick them up. It's not like they drive them to town or something, but i think that is perfectly acceptable, and a far cry from the picture painted by the author that he advocated for the bloody murder of all mexican immigrants.

The breakdown of the tweet by the writer is even dumber, if that is possible. Breaking down grammar on twitter? Get a life.

As far as dumb athletes saying dumb things are concerned, i feel like this barely moves the meter.

HOWEVER, I am very disturbed by the idea that the ecosystem of the rio grande might be ruined by imported alligators and would like to protest this plan.

I'd be more than happy to contribute the occasional TO column if the audience is there for it. I've been pulling part time game wrap duties at Braves Journal in it's post-Mac incarnation and sort of have the "write some things about baseball" groove back. If there's an audience there, I'd contribute to a resurrected TO.

I knew several guys illegally in the country once upon, they having come north with their parents. All them hated the term "wetback". As they told it, they were all, including the littlest sister quite capable in both the crawl and breastroke.

My attitudes on "illegal" immigration were reinforced by a long July driving trip along the CA-Mexico border. It was about 118 degrees. Some relief group had left blue barrels of water out in the desert. I figured that anyone who saw those would realize the desperate straits people must feel themselves to be in to make that kind of trip. Not the Minutemen, whom I later heard were having a riotous summer using those barrels for target practice.

FWIW, I have a few friends that told me they come here more than ever before because they find the baseball discussions stiumulating and informative. They come here to learn things about baseball, and now there is just so much here that can help people advance their knowledge of the game.

And since they are interested in the political and non baseball stuff, they pretty much have stayed at the site.

As Bob says, let's see if Chipper wants to sic some rabid dogs on European illegals who overstay their tourist visas. When he comes out for something like that I'll believe he's not a racist.

Not only is this political correctness, but it's stupid political correctness. (But I repeat myself.) Over 80% of the illegal population living in the U.S. originates from south of the border. (Most of the rest comes from Asia.) Why would anyone concerned about illegal immigration focus equally on a tiny portion of the problem rather than the bulk of the problem?

Go #### in a hat Moursund. Yes, you're the absolute king of the big mouth blowhards; the prime example of what I'm talking about, and congratulations, because unfortunately the site now almost totally caters to the likes of you. You, Hutcheson, and all the rest of your ilk are the biggest reasons why ShoeGrit and so many others like him rarely (if ever) come here any more. I'm sure that he has way too much class to tell you this himself, but I'M telling you. And it's very unfortunate, because in my opinion one of him is worth ten of you.

As Bob says, let's see if Chipper wants to sic some rabid dogs on European illegals who overstay their tourist visas. When he comes out for something like that I'll believe he's not a racist.

Not only is this political correctness, but it's stupid political correctness. (But I repeat myself.) Over 80% of the illegal population living in the U.S. originates from south of the border. (Most of the rest comes from Asia.) Why would anyone concerned about illegal immigration focus equally on a tiny portion of the problem rather than the bulk of the problem?

There are millions of people "concerned" about illegal immigration from Mexico who manage to express their concern without coming across as racists, including the people here who have been defending Chipper's tweet. Chipper isn't one of them.

And though I suppose that the bit about putting gators in the Rio Grande can be defended as a "joke", you might say the same thing about Bernal's comment back in #62.** I'm sure that if Chipper had tweeted something along those lines, it would have amused you terrifically, especially without Bernal's "jk" tag at the end.

**

Y'all think if we built some really big ovens like they had in the 1940s the Jews wud stop stealing our money? jk

There are millions of people "concerned" about illegal immigration from Mexico who manage to express their concern without coming across as racists, including the people here who have been defending Chipper's tweet. Chipper isn't one of them.

Nothing he said came across as remotely racist. Nothing he said had anything to do with race.

(By the way, I didn't say "from Mexico." I said "south of the border." While Mexicans are by far the biggest group of illegal immigrants, other Latin American countries are also major sources for illegal immigration.)

Bernal's analogy, to the extent it was intended to be one, fails miserably; illegal immigrants really are sneaking across the southern border, while Jews are not stealing anyone's money. (Also, people really did kill Jews in ovens, while using alligators as a border control measure is obviously silly and not meant to be taken seriously. If he had suggested shooting Hispanic people on sight, that might have been more similar.)

I hope the powers that be find this entire discussion illuminating, and I don't mean the part about Chipper Jones... .

Too many insults passing as commentary from people who should know better, IMHO. Sometimes followed up by an explanation as to why HE DESERVED IT. The noise to signal ratio is getting worse, unfortunately.

Nothing he said came across as remotely racist. Nothing he said had anything to do with race.

Ever the lawyer. As if everyone but about half a dozen people here didn't know exactly what ethnic group he was talking about.

(By the way, I didn't say "from Mexico." I said "south of the border." While Mexicans are by far the biggest group of illegal immigrants, other Latin American countries are also major sources for illegal immigration.)

Great, so as long as you're also talking about siccing gators on the Guatemalans and the Salvadorans, it wipes all the ethnic implications away.

Bernal's analogy, to the extent it was intended to be one, fails miserably; illegal immigrants really are sneaking across the southern border, while Jews are not stealing anyone's money.

No problem; just restrict the ovens to "bad" Jews like Madoff, and brush off anyone who tries to point out that the goyim have stolen a few shekels on their own.

(Also, people really did kill Jews in ovens, while using alligators as a border control measure is obviously silly and not meant to be taken seriously. If he had suggested shooting Hispanic people on sight, that might have been more similar.)

David, maybe at this point you should chastise Chipper for caving into "political correctness" and apologizing, but there really wasn't anything funny about his "joke".

Too many insults passing as commentary from people who should know better, IMHO. Sometimes followed up by an explanation as to why HE DESERVED IT. The noise to signal ratio is getting worse, unfortunately.

Much as I don't like agreeing with Joey, it wouldn't bother me a bit if Repoz stopped putting up pinata posts like this, or at least restricted them to about one every six months. The current OTP thread has had a lot more variety and a lot less venom on all sides as this one has had.