"Who is going to save our Church? Not our bishops, not our priests and religious. It is up to you, the people. You have the minds, the eyes, the ears to save the Church. Your mission is to see that your priests act like priests, your bishops, like bishops, and your religious act like religious." - Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen, 1972

Friday, December 30, 2016

TRAPPED!

Posted by Chuck White

Some seminarians and priests in the Neocatechumenal Way feel that they are indeed trapped, unable to leave their Redemptoris Mater Seminary and/or the Neocatechumenal Way. Here's a story of one such priest in a parish in the United States...read more.

22 comments:

the travel perks are pretty good as well. many of the kiko priests here are one pass elite. they travel, they wine and dine, and maybe go in mission. then they travel back to guam to make sure they still qualify for their visa and green card application. once they get their green card they are free to go anywhere they please. and our poor diocesan priests scamble to make ends meet. very dirty way to insure these kiko men from poorer countries stick to the plan!

Aston Wong went to RMS before he graduated from FD. Where did he finish high school? What's so interesting or entertaining story about how he was drunk the day he went to RMS and was hung over for the next two days and didn't realize until the third day that he had become a seminarian. Hilarious. Not. Archbishop Byrnes? Have you ' listened' to Msgr David and Aston yet?

I don't buy this trapped business! If you are greedy enough to say yes to the temptation of all the "trappings" of becoming an NCW priest or any other ordered priest, then suffer the consequences until you grow a pair of cahones big enough to move mountains. It's their lack of faith to begin with that got them there. Lesson learned? I grew up hearing that the priesthood was sacred, that priest's were called by God. I was taught to honor and obey a priest as if he were my parent. Then I learned later in life that there are priest who became priest simply because it was their ticket out of poverty! I'll grant that it's possible that It was God's plan all along for some but for most trapped in that situation, they have no business becoming a priest yet voila! There they are up at the Altar leading souls to hell because there's no sincerity or importance and lack of faith when they say Mass.My heart aches when I hear or read about the abuses by priests. I pray for those who have been truly called by God to remain strong. I also pray for more discernment for those who chose the priesthood out of personal gain to avoid that millstone around their necks.

Thank you, Anon 6:23. I believe that you missed the point of Chuck’s article. The NCW sponsored RMS seminaries are known to hold seminarians against their will (in some cases, even literally) and force them to finish their studies for the priesthood, to get that coveted ordination and add that priest to the tally of “products” manufactured by the RMS priest assembly line that is perpetually set on an accelerated production schedule. With that, who cares about the quality of the priests or even if they wanted to be priests in the first place? For the RMS, it’s the numbers from the priest production assembly line that counts, not the quality of priests and in many cases, absent the element of a calling from God. Instead, the RMS seminarians are responding to a “calling” from Kiko Arguello and his catechists to pump up those ordination numbers for the bishops who are fixated with “the numbers”. This is unlike non-NCW seminaries where a seminarian is free to leave his study for the priesthood if, at some point, he comes to the conclusion that the priesthood is not for him. With this freedom, the faithful and God are properly served by a priest who sincerely wants to dedicate his life to the priesthood, rather than one who “was forced” into that life. The latter is exemplified by the rebellious parochial vicar in Chuck’s article. The former is exemplified by Pope Francis. When the pastor is unhappy, so goes the parish. When the bishop is unhappy, so goes the diocese (we have experienced this in the Archdiocese of Agana --- happiness can’t be achieved if one lives in deceit the way Abp Apuron does). It behooves the seminaries, therefore, to form priests who happily accept their calling from God.

A know a man from England. He left his girl friend , next his career as a teacher which is well paid and finally his house. His catacists said "you have to make yourself poor" he was sent to Bosnia in poverty.. was this man also greedy as you say for NCW trappings? Please understand. NCW catacists take over people's lives. They slowly get control of you. Using terms like..this is God's will for you. It's scary stuff people slowly sink into it ...you've got no idea ... there may be some who want out of poverty but you are confusing things. ..

Why are you thanking me Rose? My reading comprehension is just as good as the next person in here. I do believe you missed my point. As much as I detest the NCW and the RMS for their ill formation and tactics of increasing the numbers of priests, the blame does not fall squarely on the laurels of the RMS, as is the case of the priest in Chucks article. He made decisions and consequences ensued. True, as recounted, he was being coerced to stay but when you say no and then someone offers you something to make you change your mind and give in, well then who really is to blame? Lets try this: I want you to join the NCW Rose. You have two options. If you join I'll give you $100,000 or you can join just because you have faith that can move mountains and this you strongly feel is a calling from God. Which option is more appealing to you? I'm pretty sure the former was more appealing to the RMS priest trapped in Chucks article. My point in my original post is that you gotta be stupid to even join the RMS and then get yourself trapped. Even the person recounting the story premised that the RMS attracts people by offerring a better life out of poverty. The priest trapped wanted his cake and to eat it too. I think he bit off more than he can chew. Good example of how not to get into the RMS. Chuck says "some" are trapped. I suspect most are happy compared to their former life and in the case of Anon 10:17, seems like they are more than willing to give things up and choose the later option.

The Neo's aren't the only ones to use manipulation of all sorts. I recommend a read of the book Vatican Intervention, a true story. Unfortunately, in our post Vatican II world, the Vatican, and especially the popes, went all in for these "movements of the Holy Spirit." Satan always appears as an angel of light.

To: Anon 3:47, I’m thanking you for your opinion. We in JungleWatch are engaged in a civil discourse. While I don’t comment on most of the writings that are shared here, to those whose writings and comments I add to, I thank them for bringing up a point that provoked my thoughts enough to write a comment. Your comment above has been one of those that provoked my thoughts. Thank you for that. You are also defensive about your reading comprehension. To insult your reading comprehension is not my intent, but that is how you received it. Insults in commentaries have no place in civil discourse. For that I apologize. There are multiple ways and multiple themes to view the a storyline. With that as my premise, your reading comprehension was never an issue to me.

My understanding of your view is that it’s the parochial vicar’s fault for being unhappy in his priesthood because he initially entered the priesthood lured by the trappings of a potential life as a soccer player. He hoped to be assigned to a seminary that will be close to Spain where he could fulfill his dream of being a soccer player. It is his fault, therefore, that his present life as priest is an unhappy one. In your opinion, you are emphasizing self-responsibility on the parochial vicar’s part for the consequences of his decision to enter then RMS seminary. Those decisions were based on, basically, a whim, and based on all the worldly possibilities that he assumed would open up in his life if he entered the seminary. I get your point.

To follow your logic, you are then pointing out (perhaps without realizing it), that the priesthood is an okay place to punish those who enter this life under any other basis than that they were called by the Holy Spirit to this sacred life. In your words, “The priest trapped wanted his cake and to eat it too.” The priesthood should never be a punishment. It is a sacred life. A life that is sacred should never be a form of punishment.

For priests and seminarians who view their priesthood and/or formation as a punishment, they likely entered the life, as you said, under the wrong basis of discernment. If they aren’t called to the life of the priesthood, the Holy Spirit lets seminarians and priests know along the way that they are in the wrong place, as in Chuck’s story above “ … he said he was always in crisis in the seminary … which explains maybe why they all seem so unhappy.” Well run seminaries recognize these situations and are even supportive of seminarians who, at any phase of their formation, come to the conclusion that the priesthood is not for them. This is unlike the RMS in the story above that RMS seminarians are told by their catechist or seminary staff (not by the Holy Spirit) “this is your vocation.” They are forced to complete their seminary studies and are moved into priestly ordination. You and I are in agreement that, as is practiced in the RMS, it is never right to hold seminarians (or anyone) against their will, nor to form priests for as a matter of the numbers game.

clever idea anon 1017: church catechists not the same as neo catacist. Church catechism not the same as neo cataclysm. lets keep calling them catacists or fake catechists that bring division and disharmony

Chuck, every detail in that man's story is duplicated - all in different cases to my knowledge, some eye witnessed by me, including the vicious campaign waged against clergy loyal to their bishop and the nagging at young people on false pretences.

In the case you cite, now that he has proved he has the priestly vocation in spite of them, it is sour grapes to the NCW programme movement because he won't do their thing, only a normal priest thing.

NCW hangers-on are divided into those they deserve, and those they don't deserve.

I was on the way from 1988 to 2004, I am a "former", but I don't like the stupid things . All those who want to become priests can choose between redeptoris mater or other diocesan seminaries. In South America Neocatechumenals are accused by the priests of liberation theology of being elitist, as the opus, in countries such as ecuador, venezuela, santo domingo, followers come from well-off classes (doctors, engineers, teachers etc). Most of them are not in despair, but wealthy, sometimes rich. They do not care about the green card. Almost everyone dreams of being a novel Francis Xavier or Matteo Ricci to convert asia, like my son who is still on the way even though my wife and we went out and now is located in a city of china which even tells us name, working for the branch of a Swiss company,

The point is partly that they are being talked into dislocating from the region they belong and also that the pressure in a great many cases starts when boys are under age and thirdly the economic deprivation - asked to fund your own fares when you have already given lots of money, and having passport withheld, so, 3.47, the case in 10.17 which we haven't been told much about doesn't disprove any of this and doesn't prove your point at all.

Also, I'm all in favour of the international facet of the Christian religion. Now if something (around a person's "call" or their level of belief) doesn't work out too well for someone in Portugal or South Africa (picking country names at random) greater care should be taken not to land the situation under the noses of people in say the UK. I.e make sure people REALLY are - and are going to be - extra well looked after, before opportunities to relocate are overhastily offered (and in an inadvertently emotionally overcharged atmosphere).

I left the NCW because my catacist in the north of England kept telling me I had a vocation to the priesthood. I kept saying I didn't. I was told to let Christ into my life. It made me feel quite unwell so I made a literal run for it.. who do they think they are to assume they know what I should do...