If it is a business he doesn't like... you and your whole category are out of here! Kill everyone because most are bad type attitude.

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[19:09] <midnightmagic> "Hey, some fucktard just deleted the entire Games category. I believe that fucktard is Midnightmagic" "Is that what you're implying fucktard?" "was it a group idea to delete the page or one fucktard?" I am emphatically against this person being in charge of curating the commercial business listings in the Wiki. Due to things like exit scams, illegality in some areas, and the resulting[19:09] <midnightmagic> opponents we inevitably *build* (e.g. Calvin Ayre) by aggrandizing their businesses, I think the entire idea of removing commercial activity from the wiki is still valid. In particular, the Wiki originally was configured to help boost Bitcoin businesses who were accepting Bitcoin--but now that we have the benefit of 7+ years of experience, we now know that **we are directly responsible thereby[19:09] <midnightmagic> as a result of poor curation and impossible curation** for thousands of dollars of thefts and scams.

I did come in #bitcoin-wiki saying fucktard, I've apologized publicly and privately to Midnightmagic! I still think it is a Fucktard thing to do though.

I'm just saying... if you are deleting things that are purely "commercially" & likely exit scams it seems that the exchange page is the place to start (however... the page remains: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trading_bitcoins )

I strongly disagree with most of MidnightMagic's recent deletes and I firmly believe that the "Games" (I believe this was on the front page of Bitcoin.it prior to being deleted...) & Bitcoin faucet lists should be added back for the good of the Bitcoin community.

There are lots of websites that use these links to help steer noobs in the right direction... Example of "noncommercial" websites using pages recently deleted Bitcoin.IT pages to help inform their users.: http://www.freebitcoin.com/faucets.html

So, the discussion has been going on for quite some time (many years now) as to the commercial content on the Wiki. Unfortunately, and much too often lately, we have been caught hosting links to outright thieving sites who persistently add themselves back into the wiki under new names that are impossible to identify until money has already been stolen.

The purpose of the commercial links in the Wiki, early on, was to give a special boost to commercial entities who accepted Bitcoin in order to reward them for coming on-board so early, and to encourage others to do so. There is no longer any reason to do that—simple Google and other search engines are better at it, and paid listings were done, and better, at other sites anyway.

bitcoin.it is a volunteer service, for the edification of its readership. The technical content is relevant (though sometimes a bit out-of-date,) and those parts of it are strong enough that some people have even included large chunks of it in their books.

It is no longer serving that purpose. The commercial aspect of it can't be verified; it can't be patrolled; it can't be vouched-for. All it is is a linkdump/liability.

In terms of *acquiring* Bitcoins, and in terms of widely-affecting events such as exchange exit scams or the history of Bitcoin, some commercial aspects should remain in place.

But in terms of pointing towards businesses?

What's the point when we can't do these businesses the justice and courtesy of effort they deserve?

Really, the businesses themselves should be building their own collective directory. A commercial effort would fare better, would provide a more trustworthy place to point users to, and could provide membership in ways that the Bitcoin Wiki—really, really can't.

The purpose of the commercial links in the Wiki, early on, was to give a special boost to commercial entities who accepted Bitcoin in order to reward them for coming on-board so early, and to encourage others to do so. There is no longer any reason to do that—simple Google and other search engines are better at it, and paid listings were done, and better, at other sites anyway.

Can you not see the problem with this?

It's like... if you started a new company with $10, got really large and then you past a law that new companies need $1000 to be a "thing".

These "big companies" wouldn't be as big as they are now without the leverage and they can afford to market the ways you described. Part of Bitcoin is getting the communities support... I thought. These big companies and such don't need help paying for advertising. Scammers can always afford ads because they make the highest margins... Bitcoin.it seems like much less of a target than Google Adsense etc.

I know I used/still use the Wiki a ton for this type of stuff .

So you are removing all these Mom and Pop places, but I seriously doubt you are going to touch the Coinbase Business page or https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trading_bitcoins. (mind you I don't think you should delete either of those pages, but I don't think you need to kill a shitton of Mom and Pop places in order to "protect" people from scams that haven't happened yet...)

What's the point when we can't do these businesses the justice and courtesy of effort they deserve?

I thought Bitcoin.it wiki page gives these businesses a chance to give them self justice and courtesy their own wiki pages as well as they think it deserves? Everyone contributes that wants to contribute.

Also, noobs that simple couldn't do a wiki page use this as well...

I'm the perfect example of this noob example... I knew I wanted to be a part of Bitcoin, but I couldn't keep bots from destroying my Wiki page! I know I can safely afford to post my Bitcoin related thing on this nice little Wiki just for Bitcoin. I trust Bitcoin.IT MUCH more than anyone off Freelancer.com or whatever I'd need to use to make a FreeBitcoins.com wiki page.

It's my personal opinion that the pages and listings should be written from a neutral-point-of-view, and many of these are total advertisements at best. I don't see a problem with what MM is doing as long as quality, neutral content is left over. The genuine businesses will do better here if they aren't on a list with 200 defunct or outright fraudulent services padding them.

I've since had my wiki editing rights revoked... This is something I paid for and I've obviously not received a refund for this either. I've also been muted in all the Bitcoin IRC channels as well.

Fishy? Yes. (However... I did call MidnightMagic a fucktard right from the get-go. Today I told MidnightMagic that I hope they die in a car wreck via PM after discovering my mute. Calling someone a fucktard who is attacking something you love should not be a permaban.)

It feels like someone is trying to kill Bitcoin from the inside out by killing off the very guts that make Bitcoin and I firmly believe MidnightMagic is involved.

It's my personal opinion that the pages and listings should be written from a neutral-point-of-view, and many of these are total advertisements at best. I don't see a problem with what MM is doing as long as quality, neutral content is left over. The genuine businesses will do better here if they aren't on a list with 200 defunct or outright fraudulent services padding them.

You need to calm down. There's no big conspiracy against you, there's no reason to call anyone just doing their job a fucktard, and spammy wiki pages from 2011 are not the very guts that make bitcoin. A company doesn't need to be large to have a page. It doesn't even need to be notable. It just needs to not be spam, rather written objectively and neutrally for the purpose of educating the reader, not closing a sale.

Because you couldn't understand this, you told someone that you hope they die in a car wreck, on Christmas no less. I don't get it.

I don't feel like there is a conspiracy against me, but I feel like one person saying a whole industry that sole purpose to get people involve with cryptocurrency is a "faucets are a pernicious blight" is a bit.... eh? I mean Gavin ran the very first faucet for a reason and I'd hardly call it a pernicious blight.... a pain in the ass maybe!

MidnightMagic has the ever so common "Bitcoin is bigger than you" type feel. Which I feel strongly about clearly.

If MidnightMagic wants to write an encyclopedia then great... write one, but a wiki is something to help people and that page helped a lot of people. I'd maybe order one even.

It's a fucking shame the faucet page is deleted. The page had all working links and was alphabetized. *woo I know*

As a paying wiki member (xmember I guess at this point) I strongly disagree with his edits (woo hoo I know). Leaving ETH, but removing Bitcoin Cash domains just blow my mind. ETH rolled back $40 million dollars of someone's coins and that isn't scammy?