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SPNer

I have been researching Sikhism for a while now and am enjoying it very much. It is rational, does not require me to believe in superstitions, and the Guru Granth Sahib emphasizes living this life to the fullest without worrying so much about the next. It is nice and I like it.

There is just one problem. As I understand it, Guru Nanak rejected miracles and claims of supernatural abilities. The thing that stumps me though is the story about how Guru Nanak was granted Guruship- going missing in a lake for 3 days, coming out, saying 'there is no Hindu, no Muslim", reciting the mool mantar etc... Sikhs proclaim that Guru Nanak was summoned in the court of God and awarded Guruship by Waheguru Himself. Is this not a miracle? Is it not superstitious/asking me to believe something that can't be proven?

Furthermore, I thought that Waheguru was omnipresent, how could Guru Nanak be summoned in the court of God if Sikhism rejects reincarnation/heaven/hell i.e. there is no court, the Abrahamic faiths proclaim a court of God because they believe in the day of judgement, but Sikhism doesn't, so was it a figure of speech?

How did Guru Nanak survive 3 days under water though, everyone thought he was dead, it sounds like a miracle, unless the story is made up and something else happened. If this did happen, then does that mean Sikhi accepts the possibility of miracles? Then why not believe that Jesus turned wine into water or that Muhammad split the moon?

Other than that, I also have a question about Guru Granth Sahib. The way I understand it, the Adi Granth was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev, he included his work and the work of the 4 previous Gurus, as well as devotees such as Bhagat Kabir. Between that time and when Guru Gobind Singh added further hymns to the text, what guarantee is there that nothing additional had been added, that it was not changed/unpurified? After that, how do Sikhs know for sure that the Guru Granth Sahib has not been changed since the time of Guru Gobind Singh?

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Enthusiast

WriterSPNerThinker

What makes you think he went underwater for 3 days? Are you sure he didn't just go to the river, maybe come out the other side, chill out in his mind for 3 days and then come back with his bright idea?

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1947-2014 (Archived)

With some searching of this forum you will find threads related to your basic questions. Let me talk about 2 in brief because I am getting kind of tired right about now.

1. One can read the sakhis in perhaps 3 different ways. a) literal accounts of the life of Guru Nanak; b) imaginative morality stories intended to teach spiritual lessons, but not to be taken as the literal life sketch; c) for the most part completely bogus, and written to insert into Sikhi ideas more akin to the brahmin culture that Guru Nanak challenged.

Many of the sakhis that tell of incredible tales are those said to be written by Bhai Bala. There is a strong historical argument that Bhai Bala never existed. He is never mentioned by Bhai Gurdas in his vaaran. Bhai Gurdas was the biographer of 6 Gurus and the trusted colleague of Guru Arjan Dev when he compiled the Aad Granth. I am keeping this short as I said. The motive to re-write the life of Guru Nanak can be explained by political rivalries in his immediate circle of family and friends.

Not all collections of the janaamsakhis are under suspicion. This is a electronic book by Dr. Kirpal Singh who does a balanced job of analyzing the Janaamsakhis - life sketches of Guru Nanak. It is long but you seem like the kind of kaur who would enjoy it. http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/janamsakhi.pdf

2. The integrity of the text of the Aad Granth is another very important issue. There are disputed texts also dating back to the times of the Minas, the group often associated with the questionable tales told in the Sakhis. One topic to search in the forum is that of the Mina conspiracy. However, more helpful in the short run is this book, written by Professor Sahib Singh, http://www.globalsikhstudies.net/pdf/Compilation of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.pdf

He explores in depth how the Aad Granth was compiled in such a way to prevent add-ons and extensions from being inserted. There is a lot of reading there, but it is written in a way that is both educational and entertaining.

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SPNerThinker

Sikhism is a religion founded by Guru Nanak Sahib and 9 successors. They are known as Nanaks. The poetic utterances of Gurus are contained in Guru Granth sahib. It is treated as eternal successor of Gurus and is worshiped as an embodiment of Eternal divine ‘Word’ communicated to the world through the words[Bani] of Nanaks who were in carnation of the ‘Word” [Shabad or Sabda] and whose words [Bani] came straight from the source as already pointed out by spnadmin ji.
Let us take up your question in three parts

1. The exact word employed in Guru Granth sahib [GGS] for Court of Lord is ‘Dargeh’. It has appeared more than 500 times in GGS.
If one believes in the GGS one need to believe in what is inked therein. It may be a physical place or otherwise. It can be one’s mind also besides hosts of other possibilities.

2. He is present every where yet he is one. He is one yet many. The one is the unformed and all forms. He is full of qualities and yet beyond all qualities. He remains one in Himself and in multiple creations. He created the world of forms and He inter relates all forms with all forms with one thread.

3. I shall answer the third one by quoting the meaning of a single line that has appeared in GGS [ ref: sukhmani Sahib]. Only Brahmgyani can know the state of another Brahmgyani.

Besides, I totally agree with spnadmin ji in regard to her classification of sakhis or stories.

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SPNer

What makes you think he went underwater for 3 days? Are you sure he didn't just go to the river, maybe come out the other side, chill out in his mind for 3 days and then come back with his bright idea?

Here is an excerpt: "Early one morning accompanied by Mardana, Guru Nanak went to the river Bain for his bath. After plunging into the river, Guru Nanak did not surface and it was reported that he must have drowned. The villagers searched everywhere, but their was no trace of him. Guru Nanak was in holy communion with God. The Lord God revealed himself to Guru Nanak and enlightened him"

I forgot something. You ask, "Why Should I Believe Guru Nanak?" The only thing Guru Nanak asks us to believe is the Mool Mantar. All of the Ripley's believe-it-or-not stuff comes from other sources.

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Firstly, thank you for your well-thought out post above, I appreciate it

As for this, I am basically asking, why should I believe Guru Nanak when he says that he went to the court of God and got Amrit from God. This is the reason Sikhs believe Guru Nanak to be a figure of authority, right? To me, it seems to contradict with other teachings of Guru Nanak, like God is all-around (how do you get "summoned" when God is omnipresent?), rejection of reincarnation/heaven/hell (why does God even have a court if not to judge you?) and rejection of miracles (sounds superstitious to me).

Now that I have had time to collect my thoughts a bit, I would also like to know, in addition to the above:

1) There are parts of Guru Granth Sahib that talk about having your deeds read out in the presence of the lord of Dharma, about how according to your deeds you will be judged. How does this reconcile with no belief in reincarnation/heaven/hell?

2) Is God in Sikhi interfering, or does He tend to stay out of human affairs? If he is interfering, why is it so implausible to believe that He could help people perform miracles? If not interfering, why did He "summon" Guru Nanak to His court?

3) Kind of ties in with the above, but Guru Nanak sometimes talks about spreading God's message. This implies that it was given to Him by God, which implies that God does interfere in human life. Sikhism emphasizes the life of the householder, that it is possible for ordinary people to realize God, that you don't need mediators. Why then was this message given to the Gurus and a select few other people? If I live an honest life, will God also communicate with me and give me the message? Also, what then about the messengers of Islam/Judaism/Christianity etc... did they too get the message from God, or were they fakes?

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Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

MentorWriterSPNerThinker

>>>>>>>>>As for this, I am basically asking, why should I believe Guru Nanak when he says that he went to the court of God and got Amrit from God. This is the reason Sikhs believe Guru Nanak to be a figure of authority, right? To me, it seems to contradict with other teachings of Guru Nanak, like God is all-around (how do you get "summoned" when God is omnipresent?), rejection of reincarnation/heaven/hell (why does God even have a court if not to judge you?) and rejection of miracles (sounds superstitious to me).>>>>>>>>>

CAN YOU SPECIFICALLY QUOTE THE SHABADS THAT SAY THIS ? sikhs only beleive in whats written in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji under Mahalla 1 as what GURU NANAK JI says.
The Translations at sikhs.org are too literal...the metaphorical meanings are lost on most. When Guru nanak ji says..He gave me a Job...it doesnt mean God summoned him to attend an interview and gave him a job as you and me get a job..when Guru nank Ji says he got a sirapao..a robe of honour..there is no yellow robe, or yellow ribbon or sheriffs star pinned to his chest by the Supreme Sheriff in the Sky..we have to go beyond the literal to get the metaphorical meanings buried deep...that takes effort and study and a frame of mind..so there is no "physical Court" where God is seated on a gilded throne..long beard and red turban etc..with servants waving flags over his head etc etc...no physical dharamraajs with pens and paper or huge books with your crimes recorded etc..etc..Gurmatt REJECTS all these notions which are more suited to christain/jewish ideas of God as in the Bible..

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SPNerThinker

I also have a question about Guru Granth Sahib. The way I understand it, the Adi Granth was compiled by Guru Arjan Dev, he included his work and the work of the 4 previous Gurus, as well as devotees such as Bhagat Kabir. Between that time and when Guru Gobind Singh added further hymns to the text, what guarantee is there that nothing additional had been added, that it was not changed/unpurified?

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Guru Arjan Dev Ji was not the first one to include the hymns of Bhagats(including those of Bhagat Kabir, as you have correctly pointed out) in the Granth. Historical sources point out that Guru Nanak Sahib carried the Pothi, literally the notebook, wherever he went during his Udasis, compiling the hymns and wisdom of Bhagats, which were later to become a part of the Granth. An instance,

ਮਃ ੩ ॥ Third Mehl:
ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਵ ਮਰਹਗੇ ਕੈਸਾ ਮਰਣਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
What do I know? How will I die? What sort of death will it be?
ਜੇ ਕਰਿ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮਨਹੁ ਨ ਵੀਸਰੈ ਤਾ ਸਹਿਲਾ ਮਰਣਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
If I do not forget the Lord Master from my mind, then my death will be easy.
ਮਰਣੈ ਤੇ ਜਗਤੁ ਡਰੈ ਜੀਵਿਆ ਲੋੜੈ ਸਭੁ ਕੋਇ ॥
The world is terrified of death; everyone longs to live.
ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਜੀਵਤੁ ਮਰੈ ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਸੋਇ ॥
By Guru's Grace, one who dies while yet alive, understands the Lord's Will.
ਨਾਨਕ ਐਸੀ ਮਰਨੀ ਜੋ ਮਰੈ ਤਾ ਸਦ ਜੀਵਣੁ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥
O Nanak, one who dies such a death, lives forever. ||2||

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The following example is even more evident, for the sake of keeping the post brief, I shall post only the 'Rahau' tuk (although you can always go back and search the whole Shabad..)

Here is a Shabad by Bhagat Baba Farid,
ਸੂਹੀ ਲਲਿਤ ॥ Soohee, Lalit:
ਬੇੜਾ ਬੰਧਿ ਨ ਸਕਿਓ ਬੰਧਨ ਕੀ ਵੇਲਾ ॥
You were not able to make yourself a raft when you should have.
ਭਰਿ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਜਬ ਊਛਲੈ ਤਬ ਤਰਣੁ ਦੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥
When the ocean is churning and over-flowing, then it is very difficult to cross over it. ||1||
ਹਥੁ ਨ ਲਾਇ ਕਸੁੰਭੜੈ ਜਲਿ ਜਾਸੀ ਢੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Do not touch the safflower with your hands; its color will fade away, my dear. ||1||Pause||(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 794)

Another Shabad by Guru Nanak Sahib, which is literally a tuk-by-tuk explanation of this Shabad by Bhagat Baba Farid,
ਸੂਹੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥ Soohee, First Mehl:
ਜਪ ਤਪ ਕਾ ਬੰਧੁ ਬੇੜੁਲਾ ਜਿਤੁ ਲੰਘਹਿ ਵਹੇਲਾ ॥
Build the raft of meditation and self-discipline, to carry you across the river.
ਨਾ ਸਰਵਰੁ ਨਾ ਊਛਲੈ ਐਸਾ ਪੰਥੁ ਸੁਹੇਲਾ ॥੧॥
There will be no ocean, and no rising tides to stop you; this is how comfortable your path shall be. ||1||
ਤੇਰਾ ਏਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਮੰਜੀਠੜਾ ਰਤਾ ਮੇਰਾ ਚੋਲਾ ਸਦ ਰੰਗ ਢੋਲਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Your Name alone is the color, in which the robe of my body is dyed. This color is permanent, O my Beloved. ||1||Pause||
(Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj, Page 729)

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This proves beyond doubts that all the Gurus before Guru Arjan Dev Sahib not only possessed the Bani of the Bhagats, but also continuously studied the same and added their own explanation wherever they felt necessary to clear any apparent ambiguity.
So contrary to the popular belief, Guru Arjan Sahib was not the one to 'include' the Bani of the Bhagats, but he did 'compile' the whole Bani of the previoius Gurus(worthy of mention here, is that counterfeit non-canonical works like 'Praan Sangali', 'Bacahan Bilaas' were rejected, which would not have been possible in absence of a source of reference for these Banis), that of the Bhagats, and his own Bani into what came to be known as the Adi Granth.
The point to consider here is that the copy of the Adi Granth at the Harmandir Sahib, Amritsar was not the only one existing at that time. Dharamsals,(literally 'place of religiousness), or the then Sikh places of worship, had been setup throughout the North India and faraway places like The Gangetic plains and Bangladesh. Here the Sangat would gather and meditate upon the Gurbani, which was copied from the Adi Granth by the Sikhs.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਹਥਿ ਸਕਥ ਹਨਿ ਸਾਧਸੰਗਤਿ ਗੁਰ ਕਾਰ ਕਮਾਵੈ।
Worthy are the hands of the Sikh who in the holy congregation do the Guru's work.
ਪਾਣੀ ਪਖਾ ਪੀਹਣਾ ਪੈਰ ਧੋਇ ਚਰਣਾਂਮਤੁ ਪਾਵੈ।
Who draw water, fan the sangat, grind the flour, wash the feet of Guru and drink the water therefrom;ਗੁਰਬਾਣੀ ਲਿਖਿ ਪੋਥੀਆ ਤਾਲ ਮ੍ਰਿਦੰਗ ਰਬਾਬ ਵਜਾਵੈ।Who copy the Guru's hymns and play the cymbals, the mirdang, a small drum, and the rebeck in the company of holy.
(Bhai Gurdas Vaaran, Vaar 6 Pauri 20)

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Needless to say, 'if any' discrepancy would have been there in the Adi Granth regarding the copy originally 'compiled' by Guru Arjan Dev Sahib, it would have been pointed out by comparison with the existing copies present at multiple places the country at that time.
At the time of the crossing of Sutlej, when the copis of Adi Granth and the works of the court poets of Guru Gobind Singh Sahib were lost to the flooding waters of the river, the Guru Granth Granth Sahib was still compiled afterwards(the works of court poets could not survive because the only copies were lost, they are available now only in fragments) from the other existing copies, and the Bani of Guru Teg Bahadur Sahib was included.
After the coronation as the Guru, Guru Granth Sahib was carefully preserved, one can judge by comparison of the Birs or canons of the Granth Sahib that not even slight discrepancies like that of matras or accent marks are there.

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Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

MentorWriterSPNerThinker

And MOST IMPORTANT of all....GURU NANAK JI NEVER COMMANDS.."Beleive in ME..to be "saved"..that command is reserved by Jesus (and others) but NOT Gurus of Sikhs. Gurmatt - following and believing in GURUS/Bhagats/Sheikhs/Bhatts of SGGS is entirely VOLUNTARY with no strings attached, no promises..NOTHING. 110% VOLUNTARY beleiving and following after one has reached an AGE OF MATURITY !! So no such thing as .."I believe in Guru Nanak ji because my FATHER told me to...either. So your QUESTION is basically and fundamentally flawed as well.

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SPNerThinker

Here is an excerpt: "Early one morning accompanied by Mardana, Guru Nanak went to the river Bani for his bath. After plunging into the river, Guru Nanak did not surface and it was reported that he must have drowned. The villagers searched everywhere, but their was no trace of him. Guru Nanak was in holy communion with God. The Lord God revealed himself to Guru Nanak and enlightened him"

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If such an important incident had really happened, would not it have been included in the Guru Granth Sahib or the Vaars of Bhai Gurdas(Remember, Banis of important historical significance like the 'Siddh Gosht', 'Oankaar', and the Shabad on the fate of 'Sulhi Khan-Sulbi Khan' are included in the Guru Granth Sahib). Why is it that we get these 'miraculous' Saakhis from spurious or third hand sources, well that is because they never happened.

As for this, I am basically asking, why should I believe Guru Nanak when he says that he went to the court of God and got Amrit from God. This is the reason Sikhs believe Guru Nanak to be a figure of authority, right?

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Guru Nanak Sahib never claimed to have 'visited' the court of the Lord' or to 'get Amrit from God'. You cannot sccuse of contradictions without having studied the Gurmat philosophy in its most pristine form, The Guru Granth Sahib. The more you study the Gurbani, the more you will realise that these 'contradictions' heapeed upon the Gurbani are nothing but baseless accusations.

Kind of ties in with the above, but Guru Nanak sometimes talks about spreading God's message. This implies that it was given to Him by God, which implies that God does interfere in human life.

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See, you have not specified a single Shabad in your list of questions-counter questions, means you have only read what you wanted to read. You are basing your questions on nothing more than what you may have 'heard' from others. Until you keep your cup of misconceptions and prejudices empty before studying the Gurbani, the cup will always spill.
:gingerteakaur:

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SPNerThinker

So no such thing as .."I believe in Guru Nanak ji because my FATHER told me to...either.

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Can you imagine a boy of a middle class Hindu family refusing the Yagyopaveet ceremony in front of a whole gathering of relatives, neighbours and friends, simply because because he saw no logic in blindly following age-old rituals?
Guru Nanak Sahib did such a thing.
He questioned everything, and so should we, but the onus of first studying about a philosophy before questioning it always lies on the questioner.

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Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

MentorWriterSPNerThinker

Can you imagine a boy of a middle class Hindu family refusing the Yagyopaveet ceremony in front of a whole gathering of relatives, neighbours and friends, simply because because he saw no logic in blindly following age-old rituals?
Guru Nanak Sahib did such a thing.
He questioned everything, and so should we, but the onus of first studying about a philosophy before questioning it always lies on the questioner.

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And that wasnt a small ceremony either..imagine the crowd, the food cooked (a whole live Bakra was slaughtered),...and the imposing Brahmin, elders of the community etc etc..and the YOUNG LAD NANAK saying "NO" - No janeau unless you can show me a "thread" that wont break, wont be soiled, wont be burnt with my body at cremation etc...and then NANAK spelled it out word by word WHAT an actual JANEAU should be made of..a janeau that He would be PROUD TO WEAR !! This Shabad is also metaphorical...the "Cotton" etc used to make this SPIRITUAL JANEAU cannot be seen/touched/felt with the PHYSICAL SENSES...

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SPNer

3) . Kind of ties in with the above, but Guru Nanak sometimes talks about spreading God's message. This implies that it was given to Him by God, which implies that God does interfere in human life.Sikhism emphasizes the life of the householder, that it is possible for ordinary people to realize God, that you don't need mediators. Why then was this message given to the Gurus and a select few other people? If I live an honest life, will God also communicate with me and give me the message? Also, what then about the messengers of Islam/Judaism/Christianity etc... did they too get the message from God, or were they fakes?

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Welcome ExploringSikhi ji ,

its not like Mr GOD sitting in court with Prophets , allotting heaven to one and hell to others .

in Sikhi GOD is all pervading and one can attain this understanding /self realization/enlightenment by following ShabadGuru Granth Sahib ji .

and the story of "Guru Nanak and river" is like that of "Buddha and Bodhi tree "at Gaya where Buddha attained perfection ,Nirvaana .

As for this, I am basically asking, why should I believe Guru Nanak when he says that he went to the court of God and got Amrit from God. This is the reason Sikhs believe Guru Nanak to be a figure of authority, right? To me, it seems to contradict with other teachings of Guru Nanak, like God is all-around (how do you get "summoned" when God is omnipresent?), rejection of reincarnation/heaven/hell (why does God even have a court if not to judge you?) and rejection of miracles (sounds superstitious to me).

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Like Giyani Ji has already pointed out, if you read Guru Granth Sahib Ji, you should not do it literally. The entire thing is poetry, it is full of metaphors and allusions, it was never meant to be taken at face-value.

I get what you are saying. Being "summoned" to the court of God sounds like you are going to a detached place somewhere far away, and as Sikhi rejects heaven/hell/reincarnation, it makes no sense to you. When faced with situations like this, I tend to go to Guru Granth Sahib Ji and find other places the term is also mentioned, to see if it might be able to shed some light. I did a quick search of "court" in Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and here is an instant where Guru Nanak Ji refers to the "court of the Lord":

From the above shabad, it is clear that the "court of the Lord" is not somewhere far away, out-of-reach of the ordinary man and woman. The Gurmukhs reside in the court of the Lord. What is a Gurmukh? Someone who has control over the 5 evils, remembers Waheguru/sees the light in all, lives an honest life and serves humanity selflessly. It is clear that Guru Nanak's message was that "the court of the Lord" is within each of us, it is when we overcome our own personal desires and have complete control over ourselves at all times, anyone can enter the court of the Lord irrespective of religion or background, simply put, being in the court of God means having a certain state-of-mind.

Now, growing up, Guru Nanak Ji was exposed to both Islamic and Hindu belief systems. He had friends of diverse backgrounds and was exposed to a multitude of schools of thought. What do I think happened on the day he got Guruship? My understanding is that he most likely had a bunch of ideas floating around his head, he was definitely living an honest life, knew what was important so had control of himself, but had no concrete "belief system". On that day, absorbed in meditation, like Ishna Ji suggests, he probably had his "AHA!" moment, everything fell into place, he was finally able to express his beliefs in the form of the mool mantar, and from that utterance, the rest of Sikhi took form. I don't think that he "spoke" to God, like you said, it makes little sense from a Sikhi perspective, in my mind, it was the day he was finally able to present his ideas and beliefs in verbal form (mool mantar).

To other SPN users, I do think that OP deserves a break, especially about the story of Guru Nanak's "meeting" with God. To be honest, I understand his confusion 100%, I have heard the same thing myself far too many times to count. A lot of Sikhs, when asked, will tell you that Guru Nanak Ji went under water in the river, and didn't come out for three days. That he had gone to meet God, and had come back with a message. Most users on here know to stick to Guru Granth Sahib Ji for that kind of stuff, but a non-Sikh probably doesn't know that (myself included when I started out), when every Sikh around you is telling you the same thing, you'd take it as truth and assume it was from the scriptures. Of course, I have come to realize that most stories about the Guru's have very little scriptural basis. OP, have you heard the one about Guru Nanak going to Mecca? You probably have, it is the most widely-circulated Guru Nanak story out there. He goes to Mecca, points his feet towards the Kaaba, an angry Muslim tells him to move them, Guru Nanak tells the Muslim man to move his feet in the direction where God doesn't exist, the Muslim man points them in the opposite direction, but the Kaaba is still there. No matter which direction the man moved Guru Ji's feet, the Kaaba would be in front of them. Guru Nanak Ji then proceeds to "enlighten" the man about how God doesn't live in any specific place, and the man stands there, amazed at what he is hearing.

The entire story smacks of ignorance. First of all, Muslims do not believe that God resides in the Kaaba. To suggest such a thing is disrespectful of Islam. Secondly, it is a big slap in the face of Guru Nanak Dev Ji. He had been exposed to Muslims his entire life, his most trusted companion was a Muslim man, you'd think he would know the basics of the religion. Furthermore, it is another "miracle" story. Guru Nanak Ji rejected miracles. To have a story of Guru Nanak Ji performing a miracle be perpetuated by his own followers is just sad, he would be rolling over in his grave if he knew.

Here is my advice to you:

1) Do not read Guru Granth Sahib Ji literally. To do so makes you miss the entire message behind it, you won't understand anything if you choose to do so, not only that, it will be downright confusing, a literal interpretation of Guru Granth Sahib Ji has every page contradicting the last. Read it, but keep in mind it is poetry, a lot of things are metaphors/allusions and should be treated as such. If someone quotes something from Guru Granth Sahib Ji and it seems odd, like it goes against what the Gurus would have taught, most likely the person is interpreting it literally. Do not make that mistake.

2) Take any story not featured in Guru Granth Sahib Ji with a pinch of salt. A lot of them have been created (by Sikhs, ironically) to make the Gurus look like road-side magicians. The people who come up with them probably think they are doing good, but it is a huge disservice, not only because it is lies, but because it causes a lot of confusion and doubt among youngsters and anyone in general who may not know much about Sikhi. There may be some authentic stories out there, but it would be a really big headache trying to separate the wheat from the chaff, do yourself a favor and stick to Guru Granth Sahib Ji, there is no lesson in those stories that you wouldn't be able to learn in Guru Granth Sahib Ji anyways.

What I am curious to know though, from the sangat on this site, is how come that story of Guru Nanak Ji is the most widely-circulated one when it comes to how he obtained Guruship? Where did it originate? When? I watched this video a few days ago: Who made Guru Nanak a Guru? - Question #1 - YouTube watch from 1:28 to 3:33 what do you guys have to say about that? Is it any wonder people are so confused?

I am also curious to know about the "having your deeds read out in the presence of Lord of Dharma" and "being judged according to your deeds", I do not know much about that, if any member could enlighten me as well, I would appreciate it

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WriterSPNerThinker

I am also curious to know about the "having your deeds read out in the presence of Lord of Dharma" and "being judged according to your deeds", I do not know much about that, if any member could enlighten me as well, I would appreciate it

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1947-2014 (Archived)

Unfortunately you cannot ask your question about the sakhi without posting the video. I believe your question was rhetorical -- no answer needed.

p/s much of the foolishness originates with the janamsakhi of the possible "Bhai Balo." Dr. Kirpal Singh did a complete analysis of all versions of the janamsakhi and probably has the answer as to Guru Nanak's 3-day sojourn to the gurgaddi.

My favorite however is the story of Guru Nanak bringing a dead cow to life -- I believe in Delhi.

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You shouldn't believe Guru Nanak ji. You should explore and study and reach your own conclusions. I mean not just study Sikhi, but other ways of life as well.

I believe that blind faith is not a part of Sikhi and that, further, it is the cause of most of the strife in the world today.

To me, one of the most compelling facts of Sikhi is that it doesn't expect me to believe things that I know are impossible. I believe our Creator created this universe to run according to the Natural Law that It set up and that's that. When things happen that appear miraculous to us, that shows that our knowledge is limited, our ignorance great, and the universe is stranger than we thought, nothing more.

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ਨਾਮ ਤੇਰੇ ਕੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਲਗਾਈ (Previously namjap)

WriterSPNerThinker

Maybe what is being expressed by the OP is that the bani of Guru Nanak is very scientific in nature but the miracle-based story of guru Nanak does not add up. So maybe it is an attempt to project a different perspective of Guru Nanak based on His far advanced knowledge as proven by His bani.
JMHO

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Sawa lakh se EK larraoan

MentorWriterSPNerThinker

Guru nanak ji given "Amrit"..and then Guru Gobind Singh ji had to go an make it again in 1699...the One and ONLY AMRIT is GURBANI and we have it word for word in the SGGS pg 1-1429. The Creator is not seated in any physical place...and He is not giving out any Amrit bottles...thats is all HINDU MYTHOLOGY...you wnat to read about such then go read the mahabharta gita vedas whatever..all sorts of devtas churning oceans and having amrit vessels etc etc.. Bhai GURDASS Vaars are NOT 100% Authentic....they are ADULTERATED. FINAL BASIC TEST is SGGS GURBANI.

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