Please use the comments to demonstrate your own ignorance, unfamiliarity with empirical data and lack of respect for scientific knowledge. Be sure to create straw men and argue against things I have neither said nor implied. If you could repeat previously discredited memes or steer the conversation into irrelevant, off topic discussions, it would be appreciated. Lastly, kindly forgo all civility in your discourse . . . you are, after all, anonymous.

I’m guessing it is frugal people who were driving beaters and couldn’t turn down a ‘free’ $4500 off a car they could already afford. This is precisely why I think that cash for clunkers is only stealing future demand…

A more important issue is that the new cars purchased on average have been getting 9.5 miles more per gallon. That will help the programs original goals to be far better than expectations. Ford and GM must have gotten a god piece of the pie since both have had to call people back to work and increase overtime.

Why do people love bashing GM so much? So they don’t have a top 10 “vehicle”, but they had the highest cash-for-clunkers total sales until Toyota passed them a few days ago. On a global sales basis, GM has narrowed the gap with Toyota this year and could actually retake its throne with a strong Fall. Now I’m not advocating this as a good business strategy, just pointing out that when you don’t cherry pick the facts, you see that some people (i.e., millions) still want to drive GM vehicles.

But, but, but yesterday it was reported that, “DETROIT (Dow Jones)–General Motors Co. said Tuesday it plans to increase North American production by 20% in the fourth quarter and put 1,350 employees back to work.

Demand fueled by the U.S. government’s “Cash for Clunkers” rebate helped GM beat its forecast for the second half of 2009.”

Can we count the # of cars they’re going to sell in the Fall/Winter on our hands? I’m not sure what’s going to be “inflationary” next year when these companies have to slash prices by 40-50% to sell a single vehicle.

This really is shaping up to be a “Costanaza” recovery

TIMMY: Did…did you just double-dip that chip?
GEORGE: Excuse me?
TIMMY: You double-dipped the chip!
GEORGE: “Double-dipped”? What are you talking about?
TIMMY: You dipped the chip. You took a bite. And you dipped again.
GEORGE: So…?
TIMMY: That’s like putting your whole mouth right in the dip! From now on, when you take a chip – just take one dip and end it!
GEORGE: Well, I’m sorry, Timmy…but I don’t dip that way.
TIMMY: Oh, you don’t, huh?
GEORGE: No. You dip the way you want to dip… I’ll dip the way I want to dip.

Lighter cars such as many of the models on this list do get better mileage, but the tradeoff is that insurance costs are greater because they suffer more damage in accidents (e.g. Honda Civic versus Accord, say).

Also, people in lighter cars have more injuries and die more often than people in heavier cars. Armor is a good thing! It would be interesting to find a way to track how many people die or become severely injured in the next couple of years in the new cars they bought under Clunkers program, versus comparative historical data info for the types of vehicles traded in under the program.

The discrepancy is a result of the methods used. Edmunds.com uses traditional sales measurements, tallying sales by make and model. The government uses a more arcane measurement method that subdivides models according to engine and transmission types, counting them as separate models.

“It would be interesting to find a way to track how many people die or become severely injured in the next couple of years in the new cars they bought under Clunkers program, versus comparative historical data info for the types of vehicles traded in under the program.”

Good way to keep the personal injury lawyers fat & happy, and keep their lobby $$ rolling into campaign contributions!

I wonder if the Presidential Limo would make the list…(Probably would)… Can’t get much more than a couple of miles per gallon (unless it’s been outfitted with some new aerodynamic hubcaps or something)…

@DeDude
Where did you get the data that the new cars are getting 9.5 miles more per gallon? I didn’t think that data was available yet.

On a side note—for all of the people who had a reasonably well running, albeit a clunker, car with no car payments that now suddenly find themselves with a shiny new toy that costs them $300 per month for the next 5 years….I can only think the “Car Owner Bailout” will be on the agenda next Spring…

Yes. That’s because the Japanese cars are actually made in the US, and the bulk of the purchase price goes back into workers’ pockets who happen to be American consumers and taxpayers. American cars tend to be built outside the US. The per-car profits going into the respective countries is a pretty small part of the total package.

This answer may be BS, but it’s not more so than the question.

In a free market, one should buy the best product for the best price, and leave nationalism in the closet where it belongs.

Best warranty? The Elantra. In addition, the front interior driver/passenger space meet or exceed (by my metrics) that of many medium sized vehicles. However, I was able to get my Sonata for less than an Elantra. Such a deal…

I am surprised to not see the VW Jetta TDI on the list. This car gets 30/41 mpg city/highway according to the window sticker but I am actually getting 38 mpg city and 47 mpg highway. After the engine is broken in, I expect to get 50+ on the highway driving between 65 and 70 mph.

There was an article, I think on CNN, where somebody parsed the numbers on the clunkers program. In order to make it look like people were driving off in eco friendly sedans the government divided the trucks and SUVs into several additional categories to make sure they didn’t appear in the top 10 list. The article had a new list based on a more honest approach and many of the trade ins are simply to buy new SUVs (with slightly higher mileage of course).

There was an article, I think on CNN or Time, where somebody parsed the numbers on the clunkers program. In order to make it look like people were driving off in eco friendly sedans the government divided the trucks and SUVs into several additional categories to make sure they didn’t appear in the top 10 list. The article had a new list based on a more honest approach and many of the trade ins are simply to buy new SUVs (with slightly higher mileage of course).

davver1; the average improvement is 9.5 miles/gallon. I doubt that is a slight improvement in anybody’s book. The program actually allowed for as little as 2 miles improvement for certain deals, so there are probably a few cases of big SUV to big SUV with slightly higher mileage, but that would have to be rather rare in order for the average improvement to be as high as 9.5.

In other words, people are getting rid of vehicles that were frivolous choices even back during good times.

Unless you’re a farmer, a contractor, or a cowboy, there is no good reason for anyone to drive a pickup truck. I know a few honest-to-god farmers, but most people I know who drive pickups are suburban wannabe cowboys. A pickup is usually a fashion statement, not a smart choice of vehicle.

nemo, you’re flat out wrong. in my town, we haul our trash to the “transfer station”. right or wrong, b.s. or no b.s. , that is the crap we have to deal with. so, a pick up and/or suv has tremendous utility. some of us also have to haul away our yard waste to the transfer station if we don’t have a place to dump that on our property. those to uses, combined with the fact that are plenty of people who can and like to do their own home maintenance means that there are people other than farmers, contractors, or cowboys who find the pick-up to be useful. what’s the negative? 12,000 miles per year / 16 mpg x $3 per gallon = $2,250 per year gas expense. not exactly breaking the bank.

Also, light cars have higher fatality rates mainly when hit by heavier cars, but they don’t have a rollover problem. If everyone drove lighter cars we would have lower fatality rates – it’s not armor, it’s a weapon.

And gm stole 100b? What about the goldman boys who manipulated oil prices to $147/barrel. Sales for american car makers plummeted, so their sales had dropped off a cliff 6 months before lehman failed. So wall street gets consumers to stop buying then totally fucks the economy and it’s GM’s FAULT?

I personally think the financial services industry should pay back the gm bailout, as well as unemployment benefits to states and foreclosure costs for prime mortgage holders. (easy to add to that list)

GM stealing $100BB is an uninformed argument. The sad reality is that inheriting GM pensions/benefit obligations would have been much more costly to taxpayers than bailing them out. I personally think the decision came down to simple math… and now we are right back to the pension/health care problem the US faces.

I traded in my 1989 Jeep Cherokee 4WD for a 2009 Hyundai Accent sedan. The
Jeep had a combined mpg of 16, the Hyundai has a combined 29 mpg. The Jeep was
my only vehicle. I paid cash for the Hyundai, $7921 including sales tax, prep fee.
Why wouldn’t I do it? A good warranty, much less cost to operate. The Jeep is heavier,
but the Accent has all the airbags, the Jeep none. I would have had to buy another vehicle
in a year or two, but I would have been able to afford only a good used car, not a new one.
This is my first new car. The Jeep polluted way, way more than the Hyundai does. This
CARS program is great for someone like me who makes a middle class wage and has enough
savings to pay cash.

primordial; even for those who don’t have the savings to pay cash, I have seen a lot of offers with payments of about $125/month for 72 months. However, just the savings in gas alone pays half of that amount. For people in your situation this was a great deal.

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About Barry Ritholtz

Ritholtz has been observing capital markets with a critical eye for 20 years. With a background in math & sciences and a law school degree, he is not your typical Wall St. persona. He left Law for Finance, working as a trader, researcher and strategist before graduating to asset managementRead More...

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