Sadiq

someone kenrug and i listen to - a british comedian who turned to political commentary a few years ago. very much like him and the way he says things - don't always agree, but i do enjoy him nonetheless.

Active Member

I don't agree that the American people wanted to be liked, rather it was the lefty politicians who decided THEY wanted to be admired as understanding- touchy feely- above it all beings.
Who was it exactly who began the American mission so-called of exporting democracy etc etc? Not the average American.
A nifty graphic, says much.

Ze Good German

Yes I remember that too Ken!
It is rather simple Obama was loud and clear when he spoke to the citizen of Berlin!
And iirc, the other old fellow was sitting on the Heimatfront in a German diner, eating sausage.

Ze Good German

Back to topic
I don't know if a law, like mentioned by Sarcozy, will be the best solution for the burqa problem.
Who wears such a piece of clothing,the 2nd and 3d generation of Muslims?
I think not.

Pat has made some interesting points, but what he missed to adress is another problem with the Muslim minorities living here.
They lack political representation in Europe.And they don't form an ethnically homogenous group.
Muslim members of parliament are rare exceptions in EU countries.
In Germany for example, we've only Cem Özdemir (Greens) as a member of the Bundestag.

Also,I can't really blame Pat Condell for being too agressive,cause we also have quite fewer new Muslim immigrants in Germany as they have in the UK.

Another difference is ,the British and French muslim minorities are rooted in their colonial past while the German muslim minority is rooted in a policy of inviting South Europeans and Turks to work temporarily in Germany after WW2.

How about America ?
Aren't people with Mexican or Hispanic immigration backround organized in blocs within the Democrat or Republican parties ?
Or do they need to push their political agenda via the Catholic church ?

Sadiq

Condell had one good point: the burka actually has nothing at all to do with Islam. Seriously. It's a "tribal" artifact of culture.

We have many Turkish members here, and I can well imagine them gnashing their teeth in frustration at this misinterpretation of their faith. Turkish women (often drop-dead gorgeous) do not belabor themselves with nonsensical Arab/South-Asian garb. Yes, they (like the rest of us) are concerned with their daughters' virtue, but - eh - that's religion for you.

They just want to keep their wives and daughters away from lechers (looks up at the ceiling, whistling ). But a burka is not universal to Islam - try finding one in, oh say, Indonesia.

it's part of the hijacking of islam, a very literal example - in saudi arabia, the salafi leadership has expressly stated that women should be wearing the burqa that covers the eyes, because "showing both eyes encouraged women to use eye make-up to look seductive."

while the BBC article doesn't go into the details i got form my iranian friend back when this happened, the cleric who said this also went on to say "they are entirely awrah (sexual parts), and thus must be entirely concealed, to covering one eye, or they will pose a shameful threat to themselves and to their family, through being uncontrollably attractive to strange men."

because it's never the fault of the man.

remember, this is a country to sentences women to death, and has the guards gang-rape them to make sure they are not virgins so as to not violate mohammed's law against killing a virtuous woman.

Sadiq

Miss Tolouee's account of her ordeal confirms recent reports from opposition groups that Iranian intelligence officials use sexual abuse against female prisoners as an interrogation technique and even rape young women before execution so that they cannot reach heaven as virgins.

Sadiq

These men, of which you speak, have no Honor. They are afraid of women, and that is their nature. Normal Muslim men are cool, calm, educated and a benefit to their society. That cleric is an insult to humanity since we stopped walking with our knuckles.

If he can't get a date (Mohamed Atta comes to mind), seek other women. Don't murder them.

Atta was nothing more than a Ted Bundy serial killer with a pilot's license.

re: the last line - i gotta remember that one. best visual image since someone asked me how my druid does at DPS in WoW and i replied without thinking "well, i hit like a block of cottage cheese left out in the sun, but i can keep a 3-man karazhan running."

otherwise, i agree that a woman's eyes are one of the sexiest features on a woman, but i do not and have never felt that a woman's eyes does the inviting -is she doesn't say it, it doesn't happen, that simple.

Sadiq

A woman's eyes communicate. That's it. That's all there is. A man's eyes communicate, also. Try giving a level stare at a guy in a bar.

Wager is, within five minutes you'll get into a fight.

Male-to-male eye contact is a sure sign of aggression. Or so I've found ( ). But a woman's eyes do communicate, and we are prone to responding to those looks. We're built for it, and so are women.

I can't, and don't, dislike my appreciation for womens' appreciative "looks." It's a major part of my enjoyment of life. I like women. I don't feel the need to justify it. I also have an aggrieved nature to those self-flagellating men who like them so much that they are unseated by it, and seek to revenge.

exactly how i feel a lot of the time when one of my comrades sends an e-mail back from afghanistan - i hate being stuck sitting here when i SHOULD be there helping them, but can't. makes you feel helpless.

Sadiq

Certainly. Some dude from Nazareth also had a word about that. Even Mohamed probably had something to say about it. Which is why this burka (intentionally misspelling) issue is a mischaracterism of Islam.

Save the e-mails. I'm not a friend of anybody.

Seriously, though, what better measure? The Swiss just recently granted suffrage. We did it almost a hundred years ago. Much to our consternation

I feel a little unclean even discussing this.

But you've managed to tap in to my essential self; That part of me that Objects.

I don’t share your concerns that we are still prone to war.Only sociopaths tend to like war.

Ken,the last war in Europe had extremely adverse effects on health, wealth and freedom.
The hardship of rebuilding a continent that was bombed to rubble is obvious.
It took us Germans almost two decades to recover materially, so the war meant a loss of three decades.
You should ask some of our British or French members how long they needed to rebuild their countries and get their economy back on tracks after the end of WW 2.So I guess its save to say that we learned our lesson.

I'm better just going to skip past this blame and get back to your assertion of continuity
The USA is no longer a slave-owner society although it has undeniably those roots, right?

Registered Faceseat

Condell had one good point: the burka actually has nothing at all to do with Islam. Seriously. It's a "tribal" artifact of culture.

We have many Turkish members here, and I can well imagine them gnashing their teeth in frustration at this misinterpretation of their faith. Turkish women (often drop-dead gorgeous) do not belabor themselves with nonsensical Arab/South-Asian garb. Yes, they (like the rest of us) are concerned with their daughters' virtue, but - eh - that's religion for you.

They just want to keep their wives and daughters away from lechers (looks up at the ceiling, whistling ). But a burka is not universal to Islam - try finding one in, oh say, Indonesia.

Well, we've not been at war since 1945 but it is not against the law to defend our country in a war against potentional foe's.

German constitutional law :

Article 87a [Establishment and powers of the Armed Forces] (1) The Federation shall establish Armed Forces for purposes of defense. Their numerical strength and general organizational structure must be shown in the budget.

Tztztz
Ken please...Using such a primitive rhetoric trick, you should know me better.The intervention in the former Yugoslavia wasn't an European war.
Bombing, raiding and occupying neighbours is not acceptable in Europe, that's a fact. But we did not declare war on the Serbs or any other ethnic group.

It would be at least a very unusual level of violence for a war with German participation.We're instead in what could be called a ongoing peacekeeping mission in the former Yugoslavia.

Btw. a fair discussion is almost a precondition for a good discussion.
Oh and it seems 145 years isn't enough for your President!

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