If Bt corn was a cause of CCD you aught to see alot more cases of it in Illinois and Iowa, the two states with the most corn (and therefore Bt corn) grown in the US. From what information I've received from the Illinois Dept of Ag there have been no documented cases of CCD in Illinois. I know that Bt corn is having a dramatic negative effect on butterflies though.

Neonicotiniods, Gm crops, and a host of other things probably need to be looked at more closely for a whole host of issues. But do I think they are the reasoning behind CCD? No.

I actually would like to know who this beekeeper is from Pennsylvania in the article. As of 06, he was not a registered beekeeper, and seems not to be known in any well informed circles of research, support groups within the industry, or anything else.

But he is not the first person who has the "answer" to the CCD issue. Probably not the last.

I do have questions about his (McDonalds) placement of beehives in two separate environmental settings, then comparing honey production in an attempt to explain poisoning from GM crops. The range alone from what these two test groups could get into, makes the variables so vast in possibilities.

We have the capability of not making assumptions in attempts to claim something viable to pass alone to other by making the claims that McDonald does. We can take away such "observations" by actually testing the chemical levels of bees. And individuals can do that themselves. I'm actually waiting for a couple pollen samples as we speak from one lab.

So again, let me state so no confusion. I think the impact and studies should continue. But it needs to be in the manner that takes out speculation, casual observations, flawed testing models, and knee jerk reactions.

At the 25th Italian Congress of Professional Beekeepers in Sorento,Jan. 21 - 26,2009, two scientists from University in Padova presentedthose in attendance with amazing proof that the talk around the watercooler, now has some substance and only the blind and the deaf cannow argue against it... (And those with their own agendas?!)

Prof. Vincenco Girolami, Univ. Padova, has proved beyond any doubt,that many insecticides which are used to treat seeds are deathlydangerous to all insects and other living things - not only bees. Healso mentioned that the research needed to allow the use of thosechemicals was made in haste in is flawed. He also talks aboutexcuses that the sowing machines ware faulty and that bonding agentswere wrong or not bonding properly. (Many were, but that is not thepoint)They found that the sprouting/growing plants, (Corn in this case)create/leach through active growing period, on its leaves, tiny dropsof watter-like liquid, which is seen/known as dew and is highly desirableto all insects, as a form of water. (To many - the only form ofwater!) Bees are very found of this, slightly sweet dew, and theycollect it "en mass" in early morning, before the sun and wind dryit up.If the seeds of corn, or other crop, ware treated with insecticides,that insecticide is contained in this dew and is highly toxic tovisiting insects.It has been proven that this "morning dew" is deadly for bees! If abee drinks it - it will die within 2 to 10 minutes!If it only tastes it - it will die within 20 to 40 minutes!

Professor Andrea Tapiro, university of Padova, did collect this dewand analyzed it. It shoved that it contained insecticide whichcontains neonicotinoids and concentration in her sample contained 10mg, to one litre of this morning dew.Known fact is, that that contaminant is deadly to bees and other lifein much, much smaller amounts!!!

They even made a video where they planted treated seeds and collectedthose drops of dew and fed them to bees. The results are self-explanatory. . .

Here's an update I found interesting concerning GMO in sugar beets. All advertizing, except credit to source as been removed.

Food companies pledge to avoid GM beet sugar

By Caroline Scott-Thomas, Food Production Daily

Over 70 companies have vowed not to use or sell genetically modified beet sugar by signing a registry set up by food safety, environmental and corporate watchdog organizations on Saturday.

The first GM sugar beet crops – which were Monsanto’s Roundup Ready sugar beets – were harvested in the fall, but signatories of the Non-Genetically Modified (GM) Beet Sugar Registry have said they are worried about a lack of knowledge about the long-term health and environmental impacts of GM beet sugar. The Center for Food Safety (CFS) added that one of the reasons for creating the registry is to give consumers a choice about whether they eat foods containing GM sugar in the absence of mandatory labeling for GM foods.

Jeffrey Smith, director of the Institute for Responsible Technology – one of a dozen sponsors of the registry – said: “We need to avoid the all-too-common situation of finding out a product is harmful after it has been approved and widely distributed. Requiring that GM foods be labeled is the only protection consumers have if they want to avoid eating GM foods.”

Monsanto’s Roundup Ready sugar beets are modified so that the crop is resistant to the company’s Roundup-brand herbicide, allowing farmers to quickly kill weeds without killing the crop.

No one from Monsanto was available to comment prior to publication.

Contamination concerns

CFS has also said that the recent mercury contamination of high fructose corn syrup has made companies particularly nervous about the introduction of unlabeled GM beet sugar to the US food supply.

It said: “The registry shows the food industry’s increasing apprehension about the government’s ability to adequately regulate food production technologies.”

Tom Stearns, president of High Mowing Organic Seeds, which has also sponsored the registry, expressed concern that GM sugar beets would cross-pollinate with related crops such as chard and table beets, meaning that the issue could affect other foods and food ingredients.

“Overseas markets have already rejected other GM products, so the economic future of many of our nation’s farmers is being needlessly risked,” he said.

The registry has been signed by 73 grocery chains and food producers so far, documenting a pledge to “seek wherever possible to avoid using GM beet sugar in our products” and urging the sugar beet industry to avoid using GM beets.

A full list of companies that have signed the registry is available here .

This message brought to you by Bee Culture, The Magazine Of American Beekeeping

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Life is a school. What have you learned? :brian: The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

intersting thoughts... I did belive this was a bee forum, though and not a conspiracy site.... I work in the AGG industry in particular grain harvesting. What you may not realize is that all crops fall under the term GM...... the corn we have been eating for 30 years looks and grows totally diffent from the indian corn starts.......

All that argument aside, MANY hundreds of men, all smarter than you and I have worked and tested this stuff for years with the express goal of feeding the world... (one of the true humanatirian jobs left) AND have tested this stuff for things we cannot even dream of...... the spend milllions of hours developing crops that work against one insect or virus,,, in that testing they also know which ones it DOESN"T harm....... and they know how important bees are (as well as teh people they feed)........

SO take off your pointy tinfoil, or buy your own piece of land and grow stuff. but the truth is if you were born before GM grops and our food source, your life expentacy would have bee over by now.....

Wow, life expectancy must be really short in IL. Genetic engineering only started in the 70s. Before then there was no way to insert herbicide resistance genes into corn. Guess all those GM crops are solving the population crisis.

All that argument aside, MANY hundreds of men, all smarter than you and I have worked and tested this stuff for years with the express goal of feeding the world... (one of the true humanatirian jobs left) AND have tested this stuff for things we cannot even dream of...... the spend milllions of hours developing crops that work against one insect or virus,,, in that testing they also know which ones it DOESN"T harm....... and they know how important bees are (as well as teh people they feed)........

I make a pretty good living off these type of experts. It is the big agrochemical companies that are ruining American agriculture. Old seed variety's is what I want.

whats the deal with tinfoil???? you talk about smart people and we have 100's of scientist that cant figure out what is causing CCD, I know the GM people are doing all they can to feed the world and I appreciate that but I am not stupid enough to understand that money talks when something need to get past, I worked for Monsato for years before and I know what goes on with those seed companies, they work hard and spend all kinds of money on a seeds development program but do you really believe they check or even if they do check, report that something is wrong, everything is fine when money talks (they have to prove us wrong to win) , come on man wake up and see what really happens, oh and I dont have a tinfoil cap on but think you might be looking through tinfoil glasses, if it only was like you say we all would be fine but in the real world its not like that..... they make seeds now with insecticides in them and you think these couldn't have a effect, sounds like the insecticide people. dont you think they have smart people to that says nothing will happen to the bee's. time to come back to earth my friend.....

« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 10:41:40 PM by TwT »

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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new. Amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic

if the goal of gm crops is to feed the world, there is a large tree hugger movement that doesn't want to see that happen. they are the same people who want 3rd world countries kept from developing their own energy source, etc. feeding people saves lives. people destroy the earth. those people and industries that might extend life and save lives are the enemy. they must be destroyed.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

if the goal of gm crops is to feed the world, there is a large tree hugger movement that doesn't want to see that happen. they are the same people who want 3rd world countries kept from developing their own energy source, etc. feeding people saves lives. people destroy the earth. those people and industries that might extend life and save lives are the enemy. they must be destroyed.

dang Kathyp if I ever tick you off I am sorry!!!!!!!!!!! you is toughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :-P I'll put on a tinfoil hat on for you :-D

« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 10:59:53 PM by TwT »

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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new. Amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

you do realize that roundup ready means you can spray it with roundup (A weed killer)..... all the insects targeted are ROOT worms and bol weevils??? using that logic breeding bees that are resistant to mites shouldn't be allowed......

hehehehehe, that ain't me, it some poor sole that picture I found on the net, I wouldn't put that on my head if I had to ;) , about the only thing I put on my head is a pumpkin head the morning after :-P

Just sometimes we agree to disagree, its nothing personal. :cheer:

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THAT's ME TO THE LEFT JUST 5 YEARS FROM NOW!!!!!!!!

Never be afraid to try something new. Amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic

I have NO respect for researchers that start a conversation or dialog with "If you do not believe what I say....you must be blind or deaf".

Sounds like kooks from a tree hugging club that have a set agenda, and with information that I am skeptical from the start, in regards to their professionalism, approach, and attitude of others.

It's not at all clear that the researchers said any such thing ... more likely, it was the description from bloggers or who ever described the research. The link goes to something that is only in Italian (which I don't speak), so I can't say for sure.

You got to be kidding me. The GM people are doing all they can do to line their pockets with gold. They are not much different than our elected officials who are helping them at the costs of the people in hard times.

People are becoming educated and that scares the heck out of the GM people because they could loose their gold lined pockets if the masses do an about face.

yes, "profit" is such a nasty word. things should be developed and given to the world as an act of human kindness.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Austrian scientists concluded that GM crops cause infertility....they were feeding mouses. For humans we don't know yet but we will in couple of decades....

Maybe that is the whole point with the corn,population control![/quote]

I'm sure that is part of it since the globalists say we are "useless feeders" and have documented their thoughts on reducing the population. As far as the bees and any other insects go, it is no secret that on of the documented advantages in their opinion to these GMO crops is the built in pesticides.

I can't say, but maybe I should ask, if all the corn around me is Bt corn, but last I heard, no one in Nebraska had reported CCD and we certainly have a lot of corn. All my bees are in the middle of corn.

The other issue of Bt is that I've been spraying actual Bt (rather than the gene that they spliced into the corn that makes the toxin) for many years on combs for wax moths with no ill effects that I can see. So Bt toxin seems to be a doubtful cause of CCD. I'm not saying I think GMO is a wise thing to do, I don't. But I don't think it's the cause of CCD, at least not from the corn.

The neonics seem like a more likely issue. Again, I'm sure it's being used here as well as other places so that might weigh against that theory... but I can't remember the last time I saw dew here... we just don't get dew here often. It takes a particular set of circumstances that doesn't seem to happen often in the summer. So perhaps it's a combination of the neonics and the dew, or a combination of all of that plus other things...

A bee colony is a very complex thing and the world is even more complex...

I am having trouble with the whole "life expectancy" thing and the "30 years" thing. We weren't doing genetic engineering 30 years ago, and in the last 30 I don't see a significant change in life expectancy...

Now if you are comparing selective breeding with GMO and lumping them together, I think you're comparing boxing gloves with hand grenades.