In Massive Social Collapse, Your Only Rights Are Those You Can Defend

In a massive social collapse, law and order break down and man’s true nature will be revealed. During this time of chaos, an individual will have rights only as long as he can defend them.

A devastating social collapse will smash your preconception of safety & security…

This is the subtle logic of violence. Your rights are those you can defend.

Most people may feel uncomfortable with this, but it is true. For your chance to survive a major social collapse, you must understand this.

Many (most) people live in (mostly) safe and secure suburbs and have never had to defend themselves or their property. These same people (mostly) will not grasp, understand, or accept the logic of violence. Criminals on the other hand, understand it fully.

During the years of our lives we have lived in an orderly society, where most people obey the laws and those who do not are dealt with by the police and the justice system. Most criminals are held in check by the threat of force by the police who enforce the law which results in a mostly orderly society. When there is violence to be done, the police handle it.

While there are exceptions to any scenario, I trust you get the general idea…

Following a major social collapse however, the criminal element will be unleashed while the police become overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of the collapse coupled with the fact that many of them will be busy defending their own home, property, and family.

Collapse will be worst in the city (where martial law may be declared), less so in the suburbs, and even less so in rural America.

If and until order is restored,your rights will consist of those which you can personally defend.

Defending your rights under social-collapse conditions will (with high probability) result with engaging in the threat of force or violence, or the action thereof. It’s not a pleasant thought for most people used to an orderly and safe society. But it will be a reality. It’s best that you consider it.

Most people don’t have much if any experience with guns or defending themselves against violence. While a great many Americans do own a firearm, there are also many who do not. Many or most of those who do own a firearm probably have not given serious thought to the circumstances of a major social collapse and the ensuing reality of having to defend one’s rights for real. Most people think it can’t happen…

If you are reading this, then I hope you will at least think about it. If you own a firearm(s), practice with it (them). If you do not, then I hope that you will consider it.

The best weapon for home defense may be the shotgun, one with a short barrel (easier to handle). A shotgun and its big barrel is an intimidating site to be staring down… it’s nearly impossible to ‘miss’ at close range, and the sound of racking the action is enough to make anyone think twice…

Perhaps a 12 gauge Remington pump 870 with an 18” barrel. Check the legality in your state regarding barrel length restrictions. Although having said that, during collapse, who really is going to stop you…? Just saying…

52 Comments

The main trouble for most people will be determining the moment when force is required to save one’s life, the life of those under one’s wing, and the property, which sustains life. There are so many factors involved, so many options to consider. But, there are a few rules which never change.

1. Never let the enemy know anything which may benefit them. (Do not tell them anything about anything.)
2. Never give them any warning you are about to take action against them. (Let the report of your firearm be the first clue.)
3. Never flash your weapons, or bluff, or shoot to wound.
4. When you realize a fight is about to happen, STOP TALKING. (The last thing you should say, as you get ready to attack…is to ask the enemy a proper question…(“What if I surrender?”, “Sheesh! You ever take a bath?”)…watch their eyes, and when their eyes move (usually up and to the left), as they are thinking of a reply…kill them.)
5. Leave no wounded enemy.
6. Take no prisoners.
7. Two to the center of mass, one to the head.
8. Continue to eliminate the enemy, even if they are running away.
9. Shoot the guy with the white flag.

When while in reality, sometimes the enemy surgeon would be caught before poisoning the water or in the act of poisoning the water and sometimes he would be caught after the first 1 or 2 or few people die.
And yes out of the many, many good incidents of people coming together and viable communities forming, there will indeed be a few incidents of betrayal. That is life, real life and that is what it takes to really live.
Ultimately you come together, in peace, to forge a new future.
Or you all die, some slowly some not so.

An old warrior once told me, “If you want to kill an idea or ideal, you must kill everyone who harbors those concepts right down to but not including those too young to remember, least those who harbor resentment come back to fly in your face” !
Ision, you have said it perfectly !

My first line of home defense is my 12ga 870 with a smooth bore slug barrel. The factory barrel measures 20″. I don’t think 2″ matters much with #4 loads anyway. Pistol grip, cartridge extension that holds seven loads, and a sling. Hangs perfectly under my barn coat or an overcoat. When setting idle, it stands in the fold of an extra long window curtain. My second is a .357 mag. hid right where my wife can reach it! They are like insurance policies, hope we never have to use them. We have had a rash of home, armed robberies in our listening area. Now that is getting brave! One knocks on the front door when the second one lets himself in the back. Wonder if they think about dying in these situations? Are they just random? The take isn’t much more than pocket change.

“One knocks on the front door when the second one lets himself in the back. Wonder if they think about dying in these situations?”

This is a perfect example of what we might face, but 10x in a major social collapse. The perps are idiots, but chances are that they will be armed and may kill you. This is the cold hard fact that many (most) softened citizens don’t realize or will refuse to accept… the ‘logic of violence’. One MUST be ready for such circumstances… mentally and physically.

Try pouring the buck shot into a pan of melted wax, melted crayons, or even elmers’. Then pour back into the shotgun cartridge. Makes a nice slug. I reloaded brass .410 shells with equal amount of black powder & shot. Seal the end with milk carton material & icing glass or ceramic glue. Works great.

You might want to consider a large “shot” over a slug. double aught buckshot will send 8 pellets .330 inches in diameter down range, great for closer combat, very devastating close range and good for 50-75 yards give or take a little. Good choice for someone who may not be a real good shot. 5 rounds or shots from a 12 ga. = 40 rounds down range making this a good choice for home defense. Most initial confrontational contacts happen at 30 ft or less.

If you do your own reloading there are many things you can do to make effective rounds. #1 .38 balls for blackpowder. I suppose it would be 4 aught buck if there was such a thing. .50 cal bullets for blackpowder put in sabot cup. Load hot. Use hollow points and insert hard steel in hollowpoints. Make hole larger for a hard concrete nail trimmed to fit. Cover with JB Weld. Black powder can be used for improvised things for defense. Look at colonial times and a soldier called a grenadier.

Large fireworks light things up. Not just in the sky. Dangerous? Yes. But so is a bullet coming at you. Crossbows and conventional bows are silent. Bear traps around a security perimeter. Gruesome yes. Sorry, but bad guys do bad things. The point is to stop those bad guys that will outnumber you.

Take a prisoner get info. Discern info and kill prisoner. Its reality. Play nice you lose.

White flag during battle? Good thanks for target marker for next round outgoing. No such thing as surrender. It will ALWAYS be a trick.

Set up a soft barrier inside house in front of entryways.
Why? If they break through door first place they go to cover will be thin soft barrier. Looks safe but isn’t. .308 rounds keep going.

If you have to shoot something 3 times you just may lose. Effective rounds are best. 9 mm isnt always effective. In combat you don’t always have time to clear a jam.

Ruger Redhawk in .44 magnum with 7 1/2″ bbl and hogue or pachmeyer grips has easy recoil. Can shoot acquire new target faster than you can triple tap with a 9mm or .40 cal. One shot per target. High mid chest. Have a pair of them with many speed loaders and practice reloading having someone shout and yell at you.

You have hardened fall back positions in your home. Sheetrock aint hardened.

Board up windows with screws not nails.Have gun ports in them.

Have a giod spitting scope to scan horizon. Have a little yapper? Get rid of it. Have a cat? It can be a weapon. Throw cat. Ever try to catch a cat coming at you with claws out?

Build a tall mound around perimeter of yard. Put very thorny bushes on mound. Tell HOA its a beautification project. In shtf hide bear traps where bad guys would kneel for firing position. Sucks to be them. 3″ fireworks mortar comes in use here. Point and launch. Improvise, adapt and overcome. String fishing line with treble hooks through bushes. Helps thorns be more effective. This all is for a shtf scenario not peace time. See men in blue hats? Chances are they wont be your friend. Look at kosavo and bosnia. Blue hats raped and murdered Christians. Got it????

See platoon , squad or company thats all white, asian or mexican? It aint American. And they are not your friends. If possible bug out evade and escape. Stay in trees. FLIR has difficult time with tree cover. Dont smoke while evading. Quit now even better. Have big dogs? Good. If you bug out put them in a sled dog harness and have them pull a garden wagon you modified. That will carry supplies instead of your back. Stay low. Stay off high points, ie ridges and hill tops. God bless and good luck.

I’ve read oodles of articles about defending ones self and understand the defensive posture, but nobody has addressed what to do with the bodies? If it becomes a free for all…………Neighbors backs to one another, what do we do with that pile corpses? You know its going to happen. Can’t leave them lying in the yard, street? And we don’t have alligators here near about to feed?

This statement from the book “Beyond Collapse” is for all. Still, not a lot of info about the turmoil, confusion, & separation of friend from foe, that will ensue. A lot of paybacks for sure!

Even if you’re selfish and hateful beyond belief, remember this – someday, it will be your body being carried to burial or cremation. You see, death happens to us all…including you and I. Keep that in mind the next time you have to deal with someone else whose turn has come.

When TSHTF all bets are off. Even people you THOUGHT you knew will be a treat to you and your family. I agree with “ISION” don’t hesitate and don’t wound only shoot to kill and worry later about the repercussions as I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6! If your planning on not Bugging Out but staying in your home remember that any intruder is a threat even if you THINK you know them. Don’t EVER tell people that you have weapons, how many what they are and the ammunition you have stored. This could prove a very valuable mistake for you and your loved ones as if THEY don’t have weapons but know you do they will want them for their own protection. I know most people will never kill another human but some of us have already had to deal with this subject and we know that we can and will do what is necessary to survive. If your one of those people that say ‘ guns kill people’ you will most likely be killed very soon as reason will not be a subject to try and teach at this point. When our society breaks down and TSHTF you WILL be on your own to handle whatever situation may come as the law enforcement will not be there to help you and even if the DO show up you will be treated as a threat to them and possibly killed as ‘friendly fire”. Nobody WANTS to kill someone else and especially for say water or food but THAT is exactly what the criminals are hoping for…an easy mark. I realize some parts of the good old USA has laws in place restricting the buying and selling of firearms, the criminals on the other hand doesn’t care about such restrictions and will come at you armed and most willingly WANT to kill you for what you have. Be prepared while you can NOW and get something to protect you and your loved ones from this situation. They DEPEND on you and when TSHTF you WILL have to defend what you have one way or another. I have seen MANY gangs armed and if they have no reservation about killing each other now BEFORE TSHTF what makes one think they will stop killing for what they want? Remember folks that it is YOUR choice to gain access NOW for weapons that WILL protect and possibly save you and your loved ones life. Be ready, stay strong and above all NEVER panic as panic will kill you just as fast as a bullet from an AK-47. Have a plan set in place and have that plan workable and let everyone PRACTISE this plan of survival. The only ones that will survive after TSHTF is the strong and the willing to do whatever it takes for your survival. If you are not ready to take a huge step and do what is necessary to survive you will be just another number on the causality list.

Used to be a Deputy,wouldn’t have strapped a gun on if I wasn’t gonna use it . Ya’ll just remember that even family could be an enemy , let alone your most trusted neighbors , as long as ya’ll can stick together and work through it try , but if it starts to unravel with them get to safety . Don’t get me wrong you will have family and neighbors that will stick it out but be careful , who you trust with the lives of your family and yourself is what I am getting at . As for how I feel I will not trust anyone from the government who says they can help . Oh by the way I like the idea about hanging the corpses where strangers coming into your area can see the consequences of their actions , and getting the skinny on what could happen to them ! Be prepared and ready. Keep your powder dry.

Yeah, armchair commandos. There couldn’t possibly be anyone with any actual combat experience in the world..after all, that’s just in TV Shows and movies..it never really happens in real life. What you see on the News is all pretend.

There are thousands of us with combat experience, both in war and on our own streets.

A-Men brother. A lot of people doesn’t respect the fact that there ARE hard men in this world and we do what is necessary because other men doesn’t have the stomach for what needs to be done. These preppy rich folk and their ideas of life are far different than one that had to defend their life on a battle field, so these preppy nerds can have the life they now live. They will never understand what it takes to survive in a combat situation and they will never understand how men like me and “ISION” can do the things we done to maintain there very lifestyle. But my friend when TSHTF and they are subjected to these factors they wont survive a minute. But that is ok. When things get ugly it is hard for them to look in a mirror and be able to live with what they must do to survive. I myself have lost no sleep over what I done and will do to survive. Don’t get upset because someone doesn’t understand us and our thinking process, my doctor has been trying to figure me out for years and still has no clue to what I have done and will do to ensure my and my families survival. All I can say is when TSHTF all bets are off and they will be on their own and I seriously don’t foresee a good ending for them. Stay strong my friend and remember that the things we do in our lifetime will soon be forgotten but what we didn’t do will be around forever as a memory of what should of been.

No I understand complacently what was said. I made a statement about armchair warriors and certain people took offence though I never mentioned any names. While some of the people that responded to my comments may in fact be hardcore folks I have found in my life that when people start talking about being carried by six and eating the dead body’s they mostly haven’t been in any situation that they are talking about. While I may be wrong, if you think about it with an open mind you will agree that most people that are truly hardcore have no reason to be telling anyone about it and rarely use cliche’s to make their point. Either way I attacked no one and have every right to post my opinion on this board the same as you do. By the way since someone wanted to post about yuppies and people not knowing about how the real thing happens they should understand that they know nothing about me either.

N-49December 23, 2013 7:46 PM

The word is ‘complicitly’ complacency will get you in big trouble.
Communication is key in the field.

Nam MarineDecember 23, 2013 3:34 AM

Exactly ! 1968 TET offensive on the DMZ in Northern I Corps, Vietnam.
It was hand to hand for three days !

Pretty simple- You insulted those that have combat experience. You don’t know who has experience and who does not. By stereotyping all here, you insulted those that do. Sometimes saying nothing is the best policy.

AnconaDecember 22, 2013 11:42 AM

I would recommend that anyone with a notion of what SHTF may look and feel like to read Selco over at SHTF School. While I do not know if this guy is for real, it sure as hell reads like it. This man lived through the siege of a city during the Balkan conflict a number of years ago, and to put to rest any talk of how we’re all going to stack the bodies of our dead enemies in front of the house to use as sandbags, I suggest here that the reality is far, far different. He describes in painful detail the horror of all out war, within which brother becomes enemy of brother by simple virtue of street address. He speaks volumes about bare survival and the instantaneous disappearance of simple necessities like personal hygiene goods, salt, Bic lighters, etc.

We all have a certain level of understanding regarding our own families and likely also have a plan of action regarding how we intend to protect those closest to ourselves, but none of us can truly plan for that day when mortars are raining down on our neighborhood and snipers are on roofs taking down random passers by.

I like to think that I have some level of preparations that will allow me a distinct advantage over those who simply walked with the herd and spent every last nickel of their paycheck each week. I know to the can what I have and I know to the bullet what ammunition I have stored, but I have no real understanding of what it would be like to live under constant siege by some force or another.

I would say to anyone thinking that they will simply hunker down in their urban enclave to think very long and hard about that decision, because it may be the last one you get to freely make.

There are times when it simply isn’t going to work out as one wishes. Limited by physical attributes, financial issues, transportation issues, the inability of those under your wing to be as mobile as one wants, one must face the prospect of facing death..because one simply cannot avoid it any longer. You may only have the choice of a quick death, or a slow one.

Many of us cannot run from the enemy and wouldn’t even try to do so. Why die tired and out of breath? In my case, there is simply no place to flee, which would be any better than where I am now. I don’t bother to prep to survive years of social chaos, but for a few months only, for I cannot expect to live much longer than that. Once the gangs start looting, is when I expect to die. All I can hope for is to die well.

10 years ago i became immersed in the bible, not like your local pew potatoes
it will be as you have said or worse if that is possible.
the only thing i could add would be sure your soul is intrusted to the lord,
that may be the only thing that survives hell on earth. the count down is on.

Be ready(properly prepared) to 1.Fight 2. Drink 3. Eat 4. Shelter(sleep warm and dry) 5. Evade(Either bugging out or making your current location seem uninhabitated/uninhabitable)… Properly Prepared means mentally,physically and equipped…How you attain these goals is open to ( endless) debate…Its up to you how you go about it…Good Luck..”Watch Out For Stobor”

All this shooting first will not go over well on judgement day ,why not isolate yourself best you can,killing best done when you have no alternative. not only will you make God angry but that persons family and friends..as Nick said The guy with a white flag was the last surgeon to be found for 500 miles. Your daughter succumbs to a burst appendix 9 days later. It matters not how you die just on how you conducted yourself while you lived.

People who shoot second, usually have a hole in them. Shooting friendlies is not the issue. The guy with the flag is from the group which you fought off in the first place, not some new fellow wandering into camp. In such combat as would be taking place, such white-flag approaches are NOT honorable, and are usually used to ambush the more stupid party. What are you going to compromise on? Half your food?

If you were able to drive them off in the first battle, try not to let any of them get away. Try to prevent a siege. You do not want snipers out there. As in the days of old, keep pushing them, break them, give them no rest, and eliminate them. Not only will you make your own community safer, you will be making many others safer too.

The Word of The Most High does not condemn self defense and eradication evil. Yahweh commanded Joshua to kill every last one of the hybrids. Male and female. (The giants that made the scouts feel like little grasshoppers) You hesitate you die and your wife and children are now goners. You just failed. Yeshua said you are worse than an unbeliever if you fail to take care of your family. You better read more and learn to shoot first. If you shoot second, you won’t be shooting.

Ken glad to see that The Daily Sheeple picked up your editorial , it is very informative , and shows folks what will probably happen when the SHTF , keep up the great work ! Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry.

Start groups NOW. If not a club then a volunteer militia or a self reliant tribe. Hell, join a gang if you have to. So many gangs and criminal organizations know about the New World Order and their agenda that they’ve prepared for this. In a state of Emergency, gangs will be running the streets or at the very least, be well stocked enough to hold their ground. Do you think, for example, that a well established biker gang is going to worry about a social collapse? Not in the least. In fact. I think they’d relish in it. Unity will be a great factor to survival. (Unless the government has some secret plan to eradicate everyone and sends drones in then it’s best you hit the forests)

Don’t get me wrong. You can go lone wolf but if you’re ever confronted by a large group, you may be in serious trouble. Also, as humans psychologically, we feel the need to be with others and to feel appreciated. To put in work, to earn influence and respect among your peers. It’s in our nature and has been part of our nature for generations and generations.
We would not be here otherwise. Tribes are just large family groups banded together.

Remember in any survival situation numbers ALWAYS prove a deciding factor. Enemies won’t want to engage if they see you outnumber them greatly.
Attila the Hun knew this. He’d have his men besiege a city then at nightfall, all of them would light 2 torches and hold one in each hand showing double their numbers, double their strength. Heck, the roman empire was begging and paying them off for years and they were the staple of modern civilization.

It will be the power structure and organization of your survivors that prove difficult. Different egos and personalities and a single leader or council of leaders trying to maintain control through the community. That’s the hard part. Smiles and daggers. Even so, imagine you start now, by the time SHTF you have a hundred people, maybe even a thousand ready to organize and move out. Sure, you have more mouths to feed in a large group but you also have a larger labor force able to construct walls, field crops, scavenge and train/recruit others in your group.
But how will you be able to tell if someone can be trusted?
You won’t. That is for you to decide.

Remember looters will be less inclined to invade your town/community/camp if you are already in the hundreds. They would most likely look to join with you or initiate some sort of diplomacy and in that case, you will have leverage due to your high numbers. More members will make you more powerful.
It’s other BIG groups you’ll have to worry about.

Let’s not forget though, there’s no point going out to find other survivors if you can barely survive yourself. If you have a small group and you’re managing well then go and find some more potential recruits.
You’ll still need fertile lands close to natural water sources but as always NUMBERS IS THE KEY. Don;t forget strategy as well. There’s a reason why it is practically the same in almost every European language, even some African, south American and Arabian dialects.

Another perspective for you to think about.

People exist for one another. Therefore, either instruct or endure them..