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ALright, so the wife and i finally saw TLJ and are both sort of confused as to why everyone is bitching.

We both liked it a whole hell of a lot, and we've both been into star wars for the vast majority of our 37 years.
i mean, i wear star wars pajamas and shit. this isn't about me being too casual of a fan.

The movie sits at 7.5 on IMDB, and most of the ones (including myself) who are bitching agree that the movie is decent or even good. Unless you expected a travesty like The Room, I don't see the root of your confusion. The visuals, sound design, acting and nostalgia are all part of the package. As handicapped the story was, seeing Yoda, watching the Kylo-Rey duo and seeing the space-kamikaze were still drooling moments for me.

I didn't even have high expectations; especially not after Rogue One. Aside from ep IV and I, none of the SW movies aimed to be some groundbreaking cinema experience. I mean, if someone wants a good SW story with fleshed out characters and dialogues, then play KOTOR I-II, or read some books (which may or may not be canon anymore).

I don't like that there's an attempt to try to portray this movie as divisive because it's brave and new though. It's none of that. It's divisive because it has high highs and deep lows.

I also blame the unproffesionalism of Mark Hamill, which fueled the flames. He signed his contract, got his money, then kept trashing the movie so much that he had to back-pedal, apologize, and explain what he meant. I love the guy, and he did an amazing performance, but Jesus Christ, hundreds of people have worked on this movie; could you wait at least 6 months to bitch about it? Not to mention that most of his criticism about TFA and TLJ are extremely antiquated and/or selfish.
If you are the jesus Christ of a franchise like SW, you should hold your temper.

the titles of these youtube videos that keep popping up had me thinking this thing was a stab-out-your-eyeballs trainwreck and that the good reviews had come from people threatened by Evil Mickey Mouse :P
You know, "TOP TEN REASONS TLJ IS SO FUCKING AWFUL" etc.

You either have 30 minutes long Snoke theories, or these clickbait videos. Many people can't accept that the movie is far from flawless OR that the movie is not entirely garbage, so videos titled HERE'S 5 REASONS WHY TLJ TRULY SUCKS/ROCKS!!! bound to bring in viewers. And sadly, the content barely matters. Maybe there are some good vids or write-ups out there, but why would anyone want to swim through the pile of shit just to find something reasonable?

Snoke theory videos never stopped coming, so prepare for the worst.

Also, if the Solo movie will be as awful as the signs indicate, I should already buy my popcorns. I personally wouldn't mind if it was such a disaster, that they had to pull themselves together, which would mean a quality Obi-Wan movie among others.

This may be the problem with how that element was handled in many minds. To suddenly jump Lukeís character from what he had grown into by the end of ROTJ to how he was portrayed in TLJ is jarring. If this paradigm shift is the direction the creators want to take his character, thatís fine, but they needed to earn that kind of character shift through good and thoughtful storytelling. For many of us, the 15 second flashback clip of Luke one random night deciding whether or not to murder his nephew in his sleep isnít the kind of story crafting that earns this kind of sea change for such a well established and iconic character. It felt very ham-handed.

I get where you are coming from, but I disagree.

The best comparison I can make is Vader. There was a tremendous gap between viewers learning only the bare bones of Anakin's fall and Vader's rise. That story was only fleshed out in film some 20 years after the first trilogy. I'm not sure that we ever see in Episodes 4-6 what Luke sees when he believes that Vader can be redeemed - nor do the Prequels do a great job of showing that either but I digress.

Meanwhile, the last spoken dialogue in a movie from Mark's Luke was Return of the Jedi in 1983.

Yes, Luke of Episode 7/8 is far different than the far more involved Luke from any number of the novels and such that have been de-cannonized, but ultimately it makes sense.

Luke of The Last Jedi (to me) resonates strongly with Empire's Yoda - the seclusion alone has made them weird, experience has made them wary. Both Yoda & Luke carry the burden of their past failures and it weighs heavily upon them. There are some callback mannerisms to reinforce that - casual disregard for equipment, a perhaps odd focus on food.

Maybe it is just me, but the visuals alone of Return's youthful & triumphant Luke after having saved the galaxy a few times already compared with the world weary Luke in The Last Jedi, that alone tells most of the story, not everything needs to be explicitly stated.

(all that being said, maybe the era of video on demand isn't kind to really long form storytelling for me these chapters are 30ish years apart, for someone else they may be far more compressed)

...Luke of The Last Jedi (to me) resonates strongly with Empire's Yoda - the seclusion alone has made them weird, experience has made them wary. Both Yoda & Luke carry the burden of their past failures and it weighs heavily upon them. There are some callback mannerisms to reinforce that - casual disregard for equipment, a perhaps odd focus on food...

While respecting your view, Iím still not sure. I understood Yodaís initial silly persona in ESB to be a farce employed to hide his true identity in order to learn about Luke and test Lukeís patience. Once Yoda revealed his true identity and began talking to Kenobiís force ghost about how he couldnít train Luke for reasons, then the farce was dropped and his true persona came to the fore, a persona much more in line with his jedi master prequel era persona. Luke struck me as being truly just a crazy olí mountain man in TLJ, almost like he turned into the Gary Busey of the Star Wars universe.

But Iím probably just thinking about stuff too much, being too negative. It was an entertaining movie, most people enjoyed it, guess thatís what really matters.

While respecting your view, I’m still not sure. I understood Yoda’s initial silly persona in ESB to be a farce employed to hide his true identity in order to learn about Luke and test Luke’s patience. Once Yoda revealed his true identity and began talking to Kenobi’s force ghost about how he couldn’t train Luke for reasons, then the farce was dropped and his true persona came to the fore, a persona much more in line with his jedi master prequel era persona. Luke struck me as being truly just a crazy ol’ mountain man in TLJ, almost like he turned into the Gary Busey of the Star Wars universe.

But I’m probably just thinking about stuff too much, being too negative. It was an entertaining movie, most people enjoyed it, guess that’s what really matters.

They could've definitely done a better job at making the viewers underastand Luke's perspective, but as lame as it might sound, the mistery of the question is an answer within itself. It's kinda like Snoke: you don't know anything about him, except he was the reigning Sith Emperor. Do you need an entire movie showing you how he got his title? I don't think so. Same with Luke. The movie tells you that he had high hopes, but his own weakness led to terrible events, basically killing his own sister's son, and he could never forgive himself.

You can't really say "oh, but the Luke I knew would have started again!!" - no, the Luke you knew never experienced anything similar to the events which went down with his pupils. I think he himself believed that he is some sort of flawless hero, so when he failed, the fall was even bigger; everything he believed in was shattered.

They could've definitely done a better job at making the viewers underastand Luke's perspective, but as lame as it might sound, the mistery of the question is an answer within itself. It's kinda like Snoke: you don't know anything about him, except he was the reigning Sith Emperor. Do you need an entire movie showing you how he got his title? I don't think so. Same with Luke. The movie tells you that he had high hopes, but his own weakness led to terrible events, basically killing his own sister's son, and he could never forgive himself.

You can't really say "oh, but the Luke I knew would have started again!!" - no, the Luke you knew never experienced anything similar to the events which went down with his pupils. I think he himself believed that he is some sort of flawless hero, so when he failed, the fall was even bigger; everything he believed in was shattered.

Ehh, Luke's character is what it is at this point. Guess there's no need to give it too much more depth of thought.

So I'm seeing that a lot of people online are criticising TLJ for being feminist/left wing. Some of these people are also mad that there are characters of multiple races in TFA, Rogue and TLJ.
These people are really fucked up, and they really scare me. I didn't think about these movies being "left wing" for one second.

So I'm seeing that a lot of people online are criticising TLJ for being feminist/left wing. Some of these people are also mad that there are characters of multiple races in TFA, Rogue and TLJ.
These people are really fucked up, and they really scare me. I didn't think about these movies being "left wing" for one second.

Me either but I don't see the point of people inserting that agenda to defend it either. Can't Finn just be portrayed by an african american guy and thats it? No motive for it or being "left" accepting him. He was offered the part, he got the part, he deserved the part. End of story.

Me either but I don't see the point of people inserting that agenda to defend it either. Can't Finn just be portrayed by an african american guy and thats it? No motive for it or being "left" accepting him. He was offered the part, he got the part, he deserved the part. End of story.

That's kind of what I'm getting at. I didn't THINK about any of this shit being "liberal." I don't think the movies are feminist either. I guess I should have clarified.

Star Trek should be the franchise for touching on real world societal matters. Star Wars is meant to be a fantasy-land epic. We go to Star Trek for deeper philosophical musings, and Star Wars for escapism. The people angling TLJ with the intent of projecting skewed societal/political views on others, well, they should be subjected to a healthy dose of force lighteningÖ or fed to a sarlacc. This is a fantasy world in a galaxy far, far away that has nothing to do with the current horseshit of the right or the left or any other agenda.

So I'm seeing that a lot of people online are criticising TLJ for being feminist/left wing. Some of these people are also mad that there are characters of multiple races in TFA, Rogue and TLJ.
These people are really fucked up, and they really scare me. I didn't think about these movies being "left wing" for one second.

I read about a "men only" cut of The Last Jedi online and it disgusts me, fucking why? in what way are some female characters so god damn threatening to these people?

It's been going on since TFA, and wouldn't stop unless Rey will be walked around by a guy with a collar on her neck. Here's a bold prediction: ppl will bitch about Rey* after ep IX too. You've heard it here first.

*Her character was terribly written in TLJ, but if anything, it made her more anti-sjw.

It's been going on since TFA, and wouldn't stop unless Rey will be walked around by a guy with a collar on her neck. Here's a bold prediction: ppl will bitch about Rey* after ep IX too. You've heard it here first.

*Her character was terribly written in TLJ, but if anything, it made her more anti-sjw.

I didn't like Rey in TFA She was too powerful without any explanation and it turned on like a light switch.

I didn't like Rey in TFA She was too powerful without any explanation and it turned on like a light switch.

I enjoyed her character, her story arc and writing in The Last Jedi.

What explanation did you find in TLJ about her powers? Because she grew even stronger within a few days, and out of the 3 promised lessons from Luke, she got 2, but one of them was more of a showerthoughts session with him.

What explanation did you find in TLJ about her powers? Because she grew even stronger within a few days, and out of the 3 promised lessons from Luke, she got 2, but one of them was more of a showerthoughts session with him.

I didn't feel it was so contrived in TLJ's writing. She also proved some weaknesses and overall had more of a personality and goal to me. TFA kinda fell flat for me in those regards.

Rey is too powerful in TFA, ugh are we still hung up on that... really? What was not understood about her upbringing that would have contributed to her skills as a survivor? She spent her life on a desolate world with cutthroat scavengers and people out for themselves, i think it's entirely plausible based in terms of her lifestyle that she might become a bit of a quick study.

What's so hard to grasp about that? she never had an aunt or uncle keeping her sheltered and withdrawn from the world the way Luke did so she's going to experience shit differently. Son of the chosen one or not, i think if he's not put into similar life or death situations on a daily basis that would develop his instincts it's no wonder he had more of a learning curve than Rey did.

Luke got knocked on his ass by sand people and Rey would have absolutely been able to hold her own in that situation because that's the difference between them.

Also since when did we need explanations for everything? i seem to recall that being one of the big contentions people had with OTHER Star Wars films.

So, I saw The Last Jedi for the second time last night with a friend who had not yet seen it and something stood out to me this time around. It was a small detail, but I thought it was cool nonetheless. Hopefully this isn't something that most people picked up on the first time around, but Spoiler:at the end when Kylo faces off with Luke's force projection, they make a point to show Kylo twist his foot as he gets into his battle stance, and in doing so, he brushes some of the salt aside, revealing the red ground beneath. Luke, however, does not disturb the salt resting on the red soil as he moves around, which is likely an intentional clue that he isn't actually physically present at the time. Anyway, I thought that was a cool/interesting thing to notice on the second trip through the movie. I appreciate it when filmmakers take the time and effort to plant these small, subtle kinds of clues that you might not notice the first time around, but will discover in subsequent repeat viewings.

Yeah, considering that this is in addition to the stand-alone spin-off movies, the new trilogy to be directed (and written?) by Rian Johnson, AND a possible new Star Wars TV series, I think you might be right. Just maybe.
EDIT: And now today, they've announced that there will be "A FEW" TV series on the way...