I am at this race. Weather was certainly a factor today. Should clear up tomorrow. Cheering for Schumacher and Rosberg since we are here as guests of Mercedes AMG Petronas. Hopefully Schumi has a good race.

Webber will take a 5 place grid penalty for a gearbox change, so he will start 8th, and Schumacher will start 3rd. It should be an interesting race. I'll be cheering for both Williams, Vettel, and anyone other than Alonso or Schumacher :P

Interesting moment in the Thursday press conference where Seb Vettel said his first visit to Hockenheim was as a 5 Y/O in 1992 when his father took him to see Michael Schumacher race, wonder how the senior Mercedes AMG Petronas driver sitting next to him felt?

Sunday News,
RedBull are being investigated for breaches of engine mapping rules that increase mid range exhaust output that allegedly increases the gas flow through the diffuser during cornering.

Not sure how this works as the cars"reportedly" do not have blown diffussers any more, indeed the exhaust is mandated to exit out the top of the chassis to preclude this.

According to some reports they may have to start from the Pit Lane.

IMHO if they are in breach of the rules*** they should not start at all.

Quoting ScarletHarlot (Reply 2):I am at this race. Weather was certainly a factor today. Should clear up tomorrow. Cheering for Schumacher and Rosberg since we are here as guests of Mercedes AMG Petronas. Hopefully Schumi has a good race.

I'm jealous, how did you get invited ?

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

Watching the German GP right now. Shame the locals can't be bothered to turn up!!

I am no fan of the artificial races in places that have no racing heritage or passion, those Middle Eastern, Asian(and others) locations will be familiar to many readers here but the lack of patronage at the German Grand Prix takes the sting out of that "purist" argument.

If the Euro purists don't want to see the races then maybe the future is elsewhere!

Quoting stealthz (Reply 6):Watching the German GP right now. Shame the locals can't be bothered to turn up!!

I am no fan of the artificial races in places that have no racing heritage or passion, those Middle Eastern, Asian(and others) locations will be familiar to many readers here but the lack of patronage at the German Grand Prix takes the sting out of that "purist" argument.

If the Euro purists don't want to see the races then maybe the future is elsewhere!

Let's drop the emasculated Hockenheim race, no one cares anyway!

The price of the tickets might have to do with the attendance.

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

I wish they could hand the crybaby a penalty as well for having a go at Hamilton as he overtook Vettel fair and square.

Yes, a deserved penalty. According to Tom Christensen they discussed and agreed earlier this year that you are not allowed to overtake with all 4 wheels off the track. And with regards to Hamilton overtaking Vettel I think they need to look at DRS rules. Why was Hamilton allowed to use DRS? He was not within 1 second of Vettel, he was 1lap +1 second behind.That said Vettel need to control his frustrations.

DRS rules are about position on the track, physically. It was always like that and we often see leaders using DRS behind lapped cars (in fact Alonso's engineer told him during the race to do this, and he did), but also lapped cars doing it, however usually just to gain speed and defend their own position against a rival also lapped that is using DRS.

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

Well, great fun today, with the first 3 positions very close to eachother for the entire race. Alonso was superb in keeping his nerve and not making mistakes despite having the pressure of Vettel, Button and even LH (what the hell was he doing?). About Vettel's manouver ... I was unaware of this specific rule, but honestly, I don't like it, at leat in today's race. Vettel's move seemed legit, pure racing if you ask me.

anyway, Forza Ferrari!!!! Unbelievable how the car has improved throughout the season!!

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 12):About Vettel's manouver ... I was unaware of this specific rule, but honestly, I don't like it, at leat in today's race. Vettel's move seemed legit, pure racing if you ask me.

Vettel's move was in no way legit and if he had given the spot back as he should have he would still have finished second and kept it due to Buttons tyres being finished. Vettel made a poor decision in the cockpit and got rightly punished.

I just saw the start and the first 5 laps, and then had better things to do - driving a Ferrari Italia on a wonderful afternoon!

Coming back I was happy to see that Alonso won as after the first few laps it was looking like Vettel would be faster and getting him soon. Vettel´s penalty was fully justified, even a rookie knows then if he overtakes by taking a shortcut he better should let the other one pass again. The adolescent whining and nagging of the Red Bull team and Vettel himself, now to be watched each and every race, is really not champion-like.

And then I was surprised by two inexplicable bad performances: Webber´s (this man won two races this year?) and Massa´s (I thought he had overcome his bad performances of the first races). Certainly good for the sport that the Red Bulls are far from first place in the championship at least for some races to come.

Whoever becomes champion in the end, and it looks a lot like Alonso this time, I do think that his win again clearly showed who´s the best driver. The last two years the best car won, this year it could be the best driver for a change, hopefully.

He was overtaking a slower car. But as Vettel can not drive when having traffic around him, he had to complain about it.
Hamilton did not hold up Vettel or forced him to go off the racing line either when overtaking him, so Vettel did not lose anything, apart from his childish temper.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 12):I was unaware of this specific rule, but honestly, I don't like it, at leat in today's race. Vettel's move seemed legit, pure racing if you ask me.

The rule was clarrified after the Hamilton/Rosberg incident earlier in the season. What Vettel did is not much different from overtaking by cutting a chicane. Same rule applies - he left the circuit and gained an advantage. As for his BS excuse - "I didn't know where he was, so I left him room." If he didn't know where Button was, he shouldn't be driving an F1 car.

Quoting sudden (Reply 8):I wish they could hand the crybaby a penalty as well for having a go at Hamilton as he overtook Vettel fair and square.

I think you wrote his name wrong.

Double World Champion Sebastian Vettel.

Yes, I agree Hamilton's move to unlap himself was all fair and above board. Yes, Vettel was gesticulating at Hamilton. So what? How is that worth a penalty? Under which rule could the penalty be imposed?

Quoting Larshjort (Reply 10):Yes, a deserved penalty. According to Tom Christensen they discussed and agreed earlier this year that you are not allowed to overtake with all 4 wheels off the track

Quoting na (Reply 14):Vettel´s penalty was fully justified, even a rookie knows then if he overtakes by taking a shortcut he better should let the other one pass again.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 19):What Vettel did is not much different from overtaking by cutting a chicane. Same rule applies - he left the circuit and gained an advantage.

Yes, there is the rule which says you cannot gain an advantage while having all four wheels off the track, but I think that move was intended for drivers who overtake by cutting a chicane. Vettel didn't do that. He went around the outside - the long way around. That he gained an advantage was not because he had all four wheels off the track, but because Button's tyres had gone by that time. Or let me put it another way: the fact of his having all four wheels off the track is not the cause of his gaining an advantage.

I will grant, however, that by the strict letter of the law, Vettel had breached that provision, but the penalty was ludicrious, in my view. Nevertheless, not much to do now apart from to get on with it and make sure Alonso doesn't get too far ahead.

Quoting EZEIZA (Reply 12):About Vettel's manouver ... I was unaware of this specific rule, but honestly, I don't like it, at leat in today's race. Vettel's move seemed legit, pure racing if you ask me.

I agree.

Quoting na (Reply 14):The adolescent whining and nagging of the Red Bull team and Vettel himself, now to be watched each and every race, is really not champion-like.

What whining and nagging? Care to name an example? Care to name a driver who hasn't gesticulated at another driver from the cockpit?

Quoting na (Reply 14):The last two years the best car won, this year it could be the best driver for a change, hopefully.

What a load of rubbish. Best car or not, it is not an easy task to win championships. Even in the best car, you still have to beat your teammate. In winning the title last year, Vettel dominated his teammate in the same car. He drove almost faultlessly the entire season, and showed great maturity well beyond his years. The year before that, Vettel had to fight for his championship, right down to the wire where he drove a faultless race to win the final round in Abu Dhabi, while Alonso and Webber both stuffed up. This is another example of Vettel keeping a cool head when the pressure's on.

Vettel is right up there with Alonso and Hamilton as the best drivers currently on the F1 grid. Hopefully, Vettel will come back from behind like he did two years ago, and win his third title in a row to become the youngest Formula 1 triple world champion.

Quoting sudden (Reply 15):But as Vettel can not drive when having traffic around him, he had to complain about it.

This line is getting really old. You forget that Vettel started his career in the midfield, first with BMW, then with Toro Rosso. Then there's the win he scored in the Toro Rosso. There has been several instances of Vettel coming up through the field after qualifying near the back of the grid to finish in the points. Vettel has proven himself time and time again to be one of the very best drivers in Formula 1. I don't know what temper you're referring to. If it's waving his fist at Hamilton, name one driver who has never so much as lifted his finger in anger while in the cockpit.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):Vettel didn't do that. He went around the outside - the long way around. That he gained an advantage was not because he had all four wheels off the track, but because Button's tyres had gone by that time. Or let me put it another way: the fact of his having all four wheels off the track is not the cause of his gaining an advantage.

Actually, in this case, yes it was due to him having all four wheels off the track - the drivers were warned on this exact point twice before the race, in particular about one corner but in general about the race track.

The reason being is that if you take a wider line through that corner, and go off the track to do so, its an easier corner and you lose less momentum doing so - in this case, Vettel passed a car while going outside the track boundaries, and suffered a penalty as a result.

If there was a curb on the outside at that corner, there wouldnt be any issue because that curb (or astroturf, or sand, or gravel etc) would have slowed the car down, but at this particular corner (and the other corner the Stewards were concerned about) its a continuation of tarmac, meaning there is no physical penalty to going over the line.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):What whining and nagging? Care to name an example? Care to name a driver who hasn't gesticulated at another driver from the cockpit?

I am talking about the childish rubbish he often says after the races he wasnt competitive or lost otherwise, not about a gesture in the race. I did like Vettel, but I now see that he´s not grown-up enough to be a real champ. Same has to be said about his team btw.

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):What a load of rubbish. Best car or not, it is not an easy task to win championships.

Are you denying the RB was the best car in 2010/11? Are you denying that its Alonso more than Ferrari who put himself wher he is now? Sure a top driver has to beat his teammate first but if he´s got the best car that almost the only thing to do. Alonso´s task this year was much more difficult so far, but could be easier in the second half of the season.

Quoting na (Reply 23):I am talking about the childish rubbish he often says after the races he wasnt competitive or lost otherwise, not about a gesture in the race. I did like Vettel, but I now see that he´s not grown-up enough to be a real champ

Amen!

Quoting CXB77L (Reply 20):In winning the title last year, Vettel dominated his teammate in the same car

Sure, he is blistering fast as long as he doesn't have to fight his way through the field. It's a known fact that if he has to do just that he has loads of excuses after the race blaming all kinds of drivers why he did not win the race.
And why do you think he dominated Webber? Because Vettel got all the goodies! This year the car is not dominating the grid, and an allround driver like Alonso is wiping the track with the youngster.

When in doubt, flat out!

25 CXB77L
: Fair point, but the counter to that argument is that by going off track he had put himself in an area where there was less grip (he went over a paint

26 moo
: But the effect of that is not guaranteed - lots of drivers have been off on that corner accidentically over the course of the race, so it might not b

27 EZEIZA
: but in reality, this has nothing in common wit cutting a chicane. Actually, I see it as a disadvantage to go outside the track, having less grip and

28 moo
: But the flip side is that it becomes a higher energy turn... more momentum on the exit, which means you are going to beat the tighter turning car in

29 flipdewaf
: Which begs the question, why didn't he just stay inside the lines then? there would have been less disadvantage and he would not have been penalized.

30 EZEIZA
: Feir enough, but I keep on wathcing the sequence and I really don't see Vettel getting an advantage from anything. I agree that had he let Button bac

31 sudden
: True, but if you look at his driving from further back the grid it's simply not that dominant and great as if it is Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton to na

32 racko
: Yeah, sure...except that if it weren't for the alternator breaking in Valencia and Karthikeyan crashing into him while being lapped, Vettel would be

33 ScarletHarlot
: We own an AMG and are members of their owners' club, and this was offered to all club members. Absolutely amazing weekend. I met DC, Mika Hakkinen, a

34 zckls04
: That's irrelevant. The point of a racetrack is that you drive around the track- you don't go offroading. Vettel would not have been able to complete

35 sudden
: Why is it then that always when he has to fight his way for positions, that he always complains after the race finding all kinds of reasons to why he

36 na
: There was more, but just this out of my mind: Valencia: accusing the judges for his car´s breakdown due to an "unnecessary" safety car-phase. Hocken

37 Bill142
: I deny that. Personally I think he's shit. Yuji Ide is better than Vettel. And he was stripped of his super licence. No. The car is fast. You should

38 racko
: Hamilton wasn't a direct competitor, he was a lap down. And that unlapping cost Vettel exactly the time that Button needed to undercut him during the

39 CXB77L
: All things being equal, yes, I suppose. And I agree that the net effect of going off track is not guaranteed, as you put it. But the grip offered by

40 sudden
: Yes but considering the company I am in here, I am trying to keep it clean. Vettel is failing on lots of things, but just because he has 2 titles und

41 sudden
: Yes, always! Not sure what broadcasting your watching, but on TV he sure let go and show his true colours. Get real. Again, not sure what channel you

42 flipdewaf
: He should have stayed behind then. Button was where he wanted to be then vettel has to respect that. Unless everyone should have to get a blue flag w

43 Bill142
: Maybe he should drive go drive for Lotus. Raikkonen and Grojean have been more impressive in 10 races than Vettel has his entire career. Plenty of it

44 sudden
: No thanks, I think Boullier is happy with his driver lineup as none of them are complaining at each other, or the rest of the grid.

45 scbriml
: So? There's nothing in the rules that says a lapped driver cannot unlap himself. And nor should there be. Hamilton was clearly quicker than Vettel at

46 moo
: The inequality in the cars is part of the competition, so not worth even covering here. The inequality in the grip between on and off track is someth

47 flipdewaf
: 71 times? very interesting, I noticed that some drivers seemed to be almost systematically going wide off some corners and I would image that this co

48 CXB77L
: Vettel has won 22 races out of 91 that he competed in, so unless you can find me 69 examples of his "whinging", I call BS on that one. Calling the mo

49 EZEIZA
: And Alonso used to be like that. But he has become better with time I agree, but although I don't like what LH did, it is within the rules. Team orde

50 stealthz
: He put 4 wheels off the track to overtake someone, did he gain an advantage?? Not even relevant.. he broke the rules, he got penalised for that.. end

51 na
: As for Vettels childish comments, maybe I´m in a better position being a German and having access to his interviews here. There were indeed more tha

52 scbriml
: IMHO, it amounts to the same thing. Nearly every report I've read had pretty much the same headline 'Vettel calls Hamilton "stupid"'. You seem to be

53 sudden
: Actually it's not ok if you only manage post quotes that does not reflect reality. That sort of tells the story right there, that CXB77L does not hav

54 EZEIZA
: I still think Alonso was worse in that sense when he was younger. Schumi, Lewis ... they were all at some point crybabys when things went wrong. Mayb

55 zckls04
: Generally not actually. The penalties are usually within a very narrow range for technical infringements, and the decision is never based on how much

56 CXB77L
: Having seen a replay of the incident I should take back that statement. At the time Vettel steered his car off the track, Button was right beside him

57 sudden
: One of the worst out there must be Massa. He and Hamilton throwing mud at each other was even amusing.

58 Bill142
: He should have backed off and tried again. Drivers were warned prior to this race about passing off the track and he chose to ignore that warning, wh

59 sudden
: That's the one. It was indeed clearly stated that 4 wheels off the track will not be tolerated. This was mainly for turn 1 as well. Vettel opted to i

60 na
: I wonder why RB complained the penalty was too much, unfair or what else, and a reprimand would be enough. What if they would have given a reprimand

61 CXB77L
: No, the one where he could've won the first three races but didn't for reasons beyond his control, but came back through some superb driving to win t

62 stealthz
: It isn't 20/20 hindsight, He drove into a position where such action was the only option. If he could not see that coming he is an undeserving WDC an

63 sudden
: As he knew he broke the rule he should have given the position back to Button, but opted to play faul!

64 CXB77L
: Yes, they were, but: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/101474 Why was Vettel punished when Hamilton wasn't? Where is the consistency in the

65 Bill142
: Not really, he could have backed out of the move earlier. Button was holding his line, which he's entitled to do. If Vettel wanted to avoid a collisi

66 sudden
: Bad comparison! If you look at that one you will clearly see that Rosberg pushed Hamilton off the track. This was for sure not the case last weekend.

67 stealthz
: You have brought this up several times. Because there was a clarification of the rules given to the teams at the British GP. Likely if Hamilton's "of

68 na
: You simply dont get it: even the most stupid driver knows in such case he has to let the overtaken car pass again and try to overtake him later in a

69 sudden
: I still don't think it's a fair comparison. Vettel had the option to back off as this was a low speed corner. The Hamilton vs Rosberg was in a high s