That's "The Maven". Haven't heard about him for years. People on here would dog him out. Saying his father bankrolled his horse playing. I view that more as his father believes in him. If he wins the 2 mil he could pay him back and people will start giving him national props.

Kudos to mr. Benes. Not many illinois track only pros out there. And nice to see he beat all those guys with computer programs by using the drf newspaper version. Brisnet always tries to get to these guys saying they used them. Maybe drf will use him for ads since he quoted them?

Maybe, maybe not. I think you are guessing. Jim is a very nice guy, but he's not very chatty -- all business during the wagering day. He occasionally stops in the Platinum room after the live card is over.

The point is, making assumptions about which handicapping tools or products people use by peeking over their shoulder at the track is prone to error (especially *paper* products -- my son puts the Form and the Sheets on his iPhone).

I called The Professor out on this very same erroneous assumption years ago when he was extolling the virtues of his newsletter while slamming track attendees who had little else other than a track program in front of them. You don't know.

The point is, making assumptions about which handicapping tools or products people use by peeking over their shoulder at the track is prone to error

There's no "peeking over the shoulder" involved. Jim's been a regular on the 3rd floor for a long time, far more than "occasionally stopping by the Platinum room". Everyone encounters him, and sometimes speaks with him.

We also have the additional evidence that "neither sheets service is braying about 'it was a sheets winner!' on their forum."

That's "The Maven". Haven't heard about him for years. People on here would dog him out. Saying his father bankrolled his horse playing. I view that more as his father believes in him. If he wins the 2 mil he could pay him back and people will start giving him national props.

Is this still true? How many times have you been to Hawthorne in the past year?

Even if it's a good guess, I still say you are guessing. ThoroGraph has picked up quite a few new users in the past two years while you have been away from the track. (Or is it more? You DO know about dime supers, right? )

Is this still true? How many times have you been to Hawthorne in the past year?

Friggin' genius you are. There is a reason I wrote "Unless he has changed course in the past year, no."

With ADW, I don't go nearly as much as I used to. However, the times I did go this Fall, there was Jim, wandering the 3rd floor as usual. I do admit I didn't keep moment to moment track of him.

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Even if it's a good guess, I still say you are guessing.

It's an observation over many years.

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ThoroGraph has picked up quite a few new users in the past two years

Oh yeah, any winner of a contest just HAS to be a TG user. It's just IMPOSSIBLE it could be otherwise, because that money rightfully belongs to TG users. And even if a guy is not known to be a TG user, he just MUST be a closet TG user to keep the narrative going.

Oh yeah, any winner of a contest just HAS to be a TG user. It's just IMPOSSIBLE it could be otherwise, because that money rightfully belongs to TG users. And even if a guy is not known to be a TG user, he just MUST be a closet TG user to keep the narrative going.

Take your meds, Terry.

I never got close to any of what you suggest in your histrionic outburst above...simply pointing out that you have been away and can't be absolute sure that Jim (or anybody else you "know") is not using this or that. Plenty can change in a year. You don't know.

I remember him on Kristufeks show back around that time. I was on a plane going to the BC in 2003 and sat right behind him, he borrowed my form during the flight.

We spoke about the Classic race and I told him that there was too much speed in Medaglio D'oro and Congaree. After I mentioned the blistering pace I saw coming, he said two words to me "Pleasantly Perfect".

Yes, he did a terrific job. I believe the prize was $750,000. He loves to watch replays and make his own speed figures. Also claims to be a professional handicapper does that mean he's unemployeed, retired, or has a wife that pays the bills? He's a lot better capper than me and most if he can pay the bills playing the Chicago race circuit!

I was thinking the same thing. Not that he won, but that he claims he's a professional illinois only horseplayer. Anyone who can play clm5000n1y's at hawthorne and arlington polygarbage only. and say that is their only income, deserves mega props. Because those fake pros who get paid to give out one winner a year are not pros. This guy seems to be the real deal.

I was thinking the same thing. Not that he won, but that he claims he's a professional illinois only horseplayer. Anyone who can play clm5000n1y's at hawthorne and arlington polygarbage only. and say that is their only income, deserves mega props. Because those fake pros who get paid to give out one winner a year are not pros. This guy seems to be the real deal.

Yes and did you notice that he is not BTW nattering all day about how great a handicapper he is.

It takes a good deal of time and work to stay up on racing anywhere. I give him all the credit to be able to come out ahead. You are correct, most handicappers on TV or in print ever show you what they do over time (profit and loss wise).

A guy won the NHC apparently using just the DRF that you constantly deride, and you can't stand it.

Get over it, and be happy for him.

Better check yourself -- you're wrong again. And again.

I'm happy for Jim. He's a nice guy, a sharp handicapper, and since he is a "Hawthorne regular", I'm doubly pleased. I already told him so.

Never EVER said that I don't like the DRF. Ever. My complaint is with the Beyer numbers, and how sloppy they have become over the years. I don't trust *any* numbers that come out of a system where the basic scale seems to change with the wind. (That's MY opinion of the Beyer numbers, and if you don't agree with it, so what? You ain't gambling on horses much anyway.)

And you yourself couldn't express any joy for Jim winning without taking a shot at the Sheets, so...who is full of crap, again? You keep stirring the shit here, and some is bound to get on you.

My complaint is with the Beyer numbers, and how sloppy they have become over the years. I don't trust *any* numbers that come out of a system where the basic scale seems to change with the wind.

You are correct about how inconsistent the Beyer numbers have become. There is a definite bias to give NY horses a higher number. I always lower the number by 8-10 from a NY Beyer fig to a California Beyer fig.

There's no real rational reason for the many years of sheets users continually waging war on Beyer and his figs. If you don't user Beyer figs, and you're getting along fine with your sheets figs or Colt's Neck or whatever, what possible difference can Beyer figs make to you? If you think they're bad numbers, you're happy the masses are using them, because it's more money in your pocket.

And to be fair most of the guys getting along and going about their business don't wage that war. They just quietly go about their business of making money wagering, just like Jim Benes and players like him do. They're too busy making money. It's only the insecure ones, the ones who have some need to publicly justify to themselves and the world why they're so much smarter and pay that extra money, aka the "sheetheads", who continually yap about it.

Seems that Thoro-Graph lost out on the photo. TGJB suggesting the guy in second place is a practitioner.

He also seems to be saying that one out of four in the contest are Thoro-Graph subscribers. Not sure what that really means. I subscribe to a lot of data providers that I never use.

Every year Thorograph provides free sheets to all the contestants of the NHC and World Series tournaments in exchange for the right to claim them as Thorograph users if they win or do well in the tournament.

I use the form. I watch replays and have my own system of angles that I implement. It's basically information that I'm using....not so much the BSF. If everyone picked horses on who had the last highest fig.....you're ROI would suck!

Every year Thorograph provides free sheets to all the contestants of the NHC and World Series tournaments in exchange for the right to claim them as Thorograph users if they win or do well in the tournament.

Not true.

ThoroGraph provides free Sheets to existing ThoroGraph customersonly for these contests -- not "all contestants" (BrisNet was doing that for a few years with their Ultimate PP's). You can't just show up at the TG web site 3 days before a contest, join their forum, and start getting free product.

Re: another poster's question regarding TG "subscribers", Jerry Brown simply means existing TG customers; some buy a little, some buy the daily limit ($120) every race day, and some have carved out their own deals. There's nothing shady going on with their "subscriber" claim, but if you think TG is going to provide you or me with a detailed customer list and their spending habits, dream on.

The money TG gets from regular horseplayers helps pay the light bill, but their real bread and butter is acting as advisers to horse buyers. Jerry and crew have advised the purchases of 87 stakes winners, including Victory Gallop, Da Hoss, Student Council, and Rachel Alexandra. Owner Ro Parra (Millenium Farms) says that he didn't start competing in stakes races on a regular basis until 2003, when he started using TG as a consultant on horse race purchases.

These TG guys are some of the smartest horsepeople in the game. If you can forget about the uniformed anti-Sheets vitriol found here (from bitter lost souls and bustouts who hardly ever gamble on horses anymore), and you consider yourself to be a serious horseplayer (or you aspire to be one), but the DRF alone just isn't getting the job done for you, I urge you to go out to www.thorograph.com, and have a look around.

I am willing to help anyone find what they need there, or help interpret Sheets, symbols and patterns as needed. Don't forget, I don't consider myself to be a TG expert -- I continue to try to learn and improve every day -- but I'll either help you or direct you to someone that can.

Re: another poster's question regarding TG "subscribers", Jerry Brown simply means existing TG customers; some buy a little, some buy the daily limit ($120) every race day, and some have carved out their own deals. There's nothing shady going on with their "subscriber" claim, but if you think TG is going to provide you or me with a detailed customer list and their spending habits, dream on.

Only reason I mentioned it was because TGJB wrote on his website that less than half the Thoro-Graph guys in the contest resonded for free sheets ... at that point in time. It was like 18 out of 50+ people.

Im a brisnet premium guy. Ive been back to drf since using tablets because when I would try to download brisnet premium on tablets it gave me the condensed version. And I need 10-12 pps because im a pattern handicapper. You cant find patterns in condensed pps. I agree with stivo if everyone played last out high fig you wouldnt have a good roi. Lumber guy was a prime example. Had a high fig yet word was out not doing good in drysdale barn. There are more factors than last out figs. I like to see if theyve hit a high fig in the past rather than last out.

Other forums are giving the day 1 leader a hard time for slipping to fourth place. I saw "the maven" didnt even get purse money. Needed to be in top 40. Dropped to the sixties. And he had some very bravado quotes after day 1. Instead he bricked worse than dwight howard at the free throw line. Ouch. Tough game.

There's no doubt they're sharp. It's their far less sharp "sheethead" followers who give them the bad rap.

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If you can forget about the uniformed anti-Sheets vitriol found here

"Uniformed"? Like the cops?

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and you consider yourself to be a serious horseplayer (or you aspire to be one), but the DRF alone just isn't getting the job done for you, I urge you to go out to www.thorograph.com, and have a look around.

Dude ... you're responding to alydar66 here, who has already proved himself as a much sharper horse player than you on this forum. Get a grip on the size of your sheethead ...

There's no doubt they're sharp. It's their far less sharp "sheethead" followers who give them the bad rap.

Yet your numerous anti-Sheets posts here make an ill-advised attempt at deriding the Sheets users and creators as a whole, with comments regarding Sheets use like "the aligning of the chicken bones". What, *now* you are going to give Jerry Brown et. al. some credit? If he is in fact a sharp guy, could it be that ( :::gasp::: ) the handicapping products he sells are actually worth the money?

Dude ... you're responding to alydar66 here, who has already proved himself as a much sharper horse player than you on this forum.

Perhaps he is, but his statement that TG provided free Sheets to ALL NHC contestants is incorrect. That was the first part of my response.

The second part, I clearly identified as a response to another poster.

The third part, from which you took your excerpt, wasn't addressed to alydar66 or anyone in particular. I didn't feel like a new, separate post was warranted; I still don't, as most Forum readers as sharp enough to recognize a multi-point post.

You seemed to have some sort of mystical ability to transcend my simple words and look deep into my soul earlier in this thread, finding my alleged hidden meanings and feelings with which I am still unfamiliar, and now...you can't even detect a simple segue from one topic to another? What happened to you? Did you buy your Internet Forum Decoder Ring at Radio Shack? Because, dude, it sucks! (There, decode that.)

Only reason I mentioned it was because TGJB wrote on his website that less than half the Thoro-Graph guys in the contest resonded for free sheets ... at that point in time. It was like 18 out of 50+ people.

Never saw that, only the final tally that showed 57 TG customers were in the NHC contest, and 43 responded to the offer to receive free product.

Yet your numerous anti-Sheets posts here make an ill-advised attempt at deriding the Sheets users and creators as a whole, with comments regarding Sheets use like "the aligning of the chicken bones". What, *now* you are going to give Jerry Brown et. al. some credit?

I've said all along he makes good speed numbers, and that's why the various trainers buy his numbers. Numbers as yet unreleased to the public are also the basis of the bloodstock advisor business - they're not selling "looks like he might circle back to a new top, but then again, maybe not."

The various chicken bone pattern reading, that's still chicken bone reading. When it's done publicly, it's wrong more often than it's right, and is generally a spectacular public failure on big race days. The only time it seems to work out is in retrospect, or redboarding.

He was there on the third floor this past meet, even through the end of the december, saw him there the last time i was at the races. Congrats to Jim! Dont know him personally but have seen him around the track since my teen years when i first started going and know he does it for a living which is a much bigger feat than winning some contest, the contest win and prize money im sure is just icing on the cake for his career as a professional horseplayer(how many people you think can say they are this over the course of decades?). wonder if he takes a little break this spring or a lighter schedule overall going forward, hes definately eanred it!

Is this still true? How many times have you been to Hawthorne in the past year?

Even if it's a good guess, I still say you are guessing. ThoroGraph has picked up quite a few new users in the past two years while you have been away from the track. (Or is it more? You DO know about dime supers, right? )

'What information do you consider essential? I use Daily Racing Program, because it has pace figures. John Walsh (director of simulcasting at Hawthorne) printed out the Friday past performances for me before I left, and I did the work on the plane going out there. He helped me download the Saturday PPís for Daily Racing Program, but I got such a late start that I ended up with a lot of optional plays late in the day, and it turned out that helped a lot. If I had fired with my optional plays earlier, I could have lost. Iíve been reading the Racing Form since I was in grade school. Iím not a sheet player. I donít have a computer program. I just feel comfortable with my own handicapping.'

I know he wants his space. I 'm also an on track introvert, but I'd like to see a one day documentary on him betting illinois tracks only. I'm amazed he can make it his profession without wagering on some bigger tracks.

I know he wants his space. I 'm also an on track introvert, but I'd like to see a one day documentary on him betting illinois tracks only. I'm amazed he can make it his profession without wagering on some bigger tracks.

I have to imagine it would be hard for him (and others) to maintain it as a profession if Dick Duchossois got his way and eliminated half the racing year. I knew some guys who used to make it their profession back in the day and couldn't deal with it when Arlington went from six racing days down to five ... just not enough plays. Imagine now with just the four.