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Dear Sirs, if a corporation cannot have a land patent without Congress granting it, the timber corporations only own the real estate & not the land. Therefore the mineral rights should still belong to the Land Patents heirs or assignees? The state leased the real estate from the timber companies and issued citations to any one travelling public roads, the lower courts throwed them out, now the timber companies sued claiming the roads & the county would not defend the roads. 13 patriots stood up & sued the timber companies, the timber companies strong armed the jury 3 jurors held them in court for 5 days till 1 remarked they would have to come back next week & the rest relented. I rode a school bus on these roads, the county has maintained these roads. 1 plaintiff has died another is in a nursing home & 11 are retired. The judge ordered us to pay the court cost & fees of 117 k, & if we appeal we have to front another 20k for their lawyer. This property is also open range for cattle but they tore down the fences to keep them off the highway. If we do not appeal they will land lock personal property, but if we lose I cant afford to pay 137k. Timber companies stole most of the real estate in this county through taxes due to the ignorance of our ancestors. I am a direct descendant to 2 Texas Land Patents of 9000 acres in this contested area the timber companies claim. My 8th GFather fought in the American Revolution is buried on this land. By Law can the timber companies take these roads?

DogLeg55:I can't understand the entirety of your post; but, I can answer directly your question about the mineral rights. Mineral rights are an interest in property appurtenant to the Land; thus, they can be bought, sold, traded, etc. Wherefore, the mineral rights belong to whoever has the right to them. You would have to do a title search to find out who owns said mineral rights. You could start at the present owner of the real estate and trace the ownership back to the Land Patent. Once you get back to the patent, you can follow the conveyances forward keeping your eye out for anything regarding the mineral rights. You would want to make sure you run every owners name from the patentee and forward in the grantor index. Often, mineral rights are conveyed separately from the real estate itself.

DogLeg55:The answer to your question: “can the timber companies take these roads”, is:They can do whatever they can do (or get away with).Of course, that largely depends on what they have a right to do (contractually or otherwise). Respectively, without actually seeing all of the records related to the situation you described no one can give a better answer than that.

Metaphorically, 10 years ago one might ask a similar question: “Can Congress seat someone that is not a “natural born Citizen” as: President of the United States?“ Of course, given that the Constitution forbids Congress from doing that, one might have then answered the question with an emphatic: “Absolutely not!” However, today we see that Barrack Øbama was so seated twice.

Respectively, one might ask: “How did that happen?”And, of course, the answer is: “Because the people failed to stop Congress from doing it.”And, why did the people fail to stop Congress from doing it? The answer is all too simple. “They did not know how; and/or, if they did know how, they simply imagined someone else would do something.”

The way to stop such things from happening is: “Learn and apply the law!See: Call to ActionOf course, history shows that metaphor applies directly to causes like yours—wherein organizations often expand upon their actual rights just as far as the people (that have the right to stop them will allow them to.

Respectively, you have to ask yourself—do you know how to learn what their limitations are and what your rights are; do you know the law and do you know how to apply the same? Because, if you don’t, Chief Justice Warren Burger of the United States Supreme Court, nailed it when he said: “If you don’t know what your rights are, you don’t have any.”

The bottom line: your rights are only as good as is your knowledge of them and your ability to maintain them.

Respectively, our purpose is to help people learn how to learn the law so that they can learn how to apply the law properly—you can only do what you know how to do—and limitation is a matter of choice that is completely up to you to resolve. We can help.

We hope this information is helpful to you.Tell everybody about Team Law!

Thank You Sirs, for your reply, that was the best explanation of what has happened to our country & government. I brought up the 2 land patents in court involving these roads my ancestors built & was totally ignored.The defendants lawyer spread the color of law like ferilize and the jury belived every word as if it were the actual law of the land, they even belived that the commissoners court was illegal, he even made them believe that the county had to have deeds for the roads. The last DA here when confronted said it was the new golden rule, he who has the gold makes the rules. Its time for change & the only way is to actively particpate in your government & learn the law, prepare yourself to battle the lobbyist paid for system the corporations have built to control us. My name will be on the ballot for the next County Judge election in March. As for jurors & voters I seriously believe one should have to take a test to participate, if you dont have a clue whats going on in a court room or know what candidates stand for your a big part of the problems we face today.

DogLeg55:Because you exceeded Rule 31’s five post limit, set for those that are not Team Law beneficiaries, you will not likely be enabled to reply to this post until you are a Team Law beneficiary; wherefore, we hope you will, again, find this post helpful to you.

Your post indicated: “I brought up the…land patents in court…& was totally ignored”; however, the simple fact remains: “the land patent stands as supremacy law”; which means that because the land patent is evidence of a permanent grant made between two sovereigns, it stands supreme over all that comes after it. It exemplifies Treaty Law; controlling the parties that granted it and all authority related to it—forever. Again, that means, if the court did not take notice of it, either you failed to present it properly or the very nature of what the patent is had nothing to do with the nature of the action in which you attempted to use it.

Quite frankly, judging from the near impossibility of understanding much of what you have posted in the eight posts, to date, you posted on our forum, if that is any indication of the kind of material you used in court, it is no wonder that the court took no notice of your pleading.

Of course, we do not have any evidence of what took place in the case(s) you referred to; so, we have no idea of what happened there. I myself have been is cases where judges went far outside of the law to do certain things in court. They too failed to follow the law. However, in those cases, I brought appropriate actions against them and they were removed from the bench—never to so serve again.

Respectively, our experience in the courts, and in government, is they do work—however, to consistently get that result you have to properly bear up your requirement to know the law and to apply the same; which you cannot do if you don’t know the law and how to apply it.

Thus, when either the law or government don’t work, the cause is almost always all too clear—the people failed in their responsibility to apply it.

Again, at Team Law, we help people learn how to learn the law; so, they can learn to apply the law. Still, we are a self-help organization; which means we help you learn how to study the law from your own firsthand experience studying the law itself from its source. Thus, you have to put forth the effort of studying the law itself before the learning comes. Respectively, to learn and apply the law means you must learn its history and language; which language (here in America) is not “legalese”; rather, it’s the simple application of proper English language usage.

Thus, we ask our forum users to do their best to write their posts using a spellchecker (either by turning on that function in their internet browser or by using competent word processor (like: MS WORD) to compose their posts on our forum (see: Rule 21). We asked you to do just that in our prior responses to you; and, several times referred you to our Forum Rules; yet, eight posts in, have you taken advantage of those directions? Are you using a spell checker yet? It doesn’t appear so.

Though it may seem trite to require such things of people—again, Team Law’s educational service is somewhat like college level classes—requiring people interested in learning to do their best. If you are not willing to do so here, do you just want to go into the far more formal venue and still not be conveying the message you want to have received? Respectively, this is an important issue—and, though there are those that just want to blow off steam, this is not the place for that.

Another example: “The defendants lawyer spread the color of law like fertilize”; beyond the fact that, because the necessary apostrophe is missing, from that statement we cannot tell whether there were one of more defendants, what does “spread the color of law like fertilize” mean? I for one can tell you that though it sounds good, without some referential definition of what you mean by “color of law”, the phrase is meaningless! The same thing goes for “commissoners court”. What is a: “commissoner”? What sets such a thing’s court; and, what makes it “illegal”? Those and at least 10 other grammatical, spelling and/or punctuation errors make your post incomprehensible. Is that the same thing that happened to you in court? Did you have a real cause of action that was lost because you could not be understood; or, was it a misapplied case that actually had no merit before that court in that venue?

Again, from your posts we cannot tell.However, what we can tell is: you need to learn how to learn the law. Then you need to learn the law. And, then you need to apply the law. Respectively, that is exactly what Team Law does. We help people learn how to learn the law.

So, the choice is yours—you can become a Team Law beneficiary so we can help you learn how to so learn or you can continue as you are. Choose!

We wish you well; and, hope this information is helpful to you.Tell everybody about Team Law!