IS Innovative Solutions' flagship product is a computer modified to NOT be able to connect to the internet or play music or videos. Huh? Couldn't you just get a regular computer and, say, not use it for internet, music or videos? Is this really a category that needs a solution?

Also, "What's on display at the Amish technology trade show" might make a nice PS contest.

GoldSpider:Skr: Their buggies are already getting hit by cars, I'd wager technology has already made a large impact on their lives.

Indeed, their reflective orange triangle technology is light-years ahead of any other culture.

That is actually a law (at least in Ohio) that any vehicle operating on the road that has a max speed of less then 25 has to display the Slow Moving Vehicle Sign (the reflective orange triangle). You can see it on most tractors, and my grandfather put one on his ATV even though he never got a road license for it. Of course, some Amish fight that law because the triangle is orange and therefore too colorful.

Skr:Their buggies are already getting hit by cars, I'd wager technology has already made a large impact on their lives.

That is actually a pretty damn sad sight. I have seen two buggies involved in accidents. One just looked like it had tipped over, and the other....well, nothing like seeing a dead horse on the road during your morning commute (the police haven't even arrived at that one yet when I passed).

I thought this was funny from the linked article about the power tools...

One table has the kind of loud, candy-colored machines you might drool over at Home Depot. But instead of running off of electricity (which many Amish people don't use), the tools are powered by compressed air.

"It's almost unlimited the tools you can convert to air," the guy behind the counter tells me. "Drills, impact wrenches, saws, table saws."

Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

Burr:Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They are allowed to use hydraulics...

OK, so you could hook a manual compressor up to a water wheel, and just let the thing run. Tank would have a safety valve that when activated shut down the water source via compressed air piston closing off the sluice. A separate valve would vent the piston when tank pressure dropped below some minimum number, piston would retract, and the sluice would open, causing the water wheel to turn and thus charging up the tank again.

Mad_Radhu:Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They buy compressed air cylinders?

To be honest, I think they use windmills and watermills to drive the compressors. Some use diesel or even steam engines, as they had adopted belt driven tools years ago and it is fairly easy to belt drive a compressor and then feed the air to the tools.

dittybopper:Burr: Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They are allowed to use hydraulics...

OK, so you could hook a manual compressor up to a water wheel, and just let the thing run. Tank would have a safety valve that when activated shut down the water source via compressed air piston closing off the sluice. A separate valve would vent the piston when tank pressure dropped below some minimum number, piston would retract, and the sluice would open, causing the water wheel to turn and thus charging up the tank again.

Mad_Radhu:Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They buy compressed air cylinders?

Which are filled by electricity, and don't store THAT much air. That would be a horribly inefficient way of doing things financially.

CheatCommando:To be honest, I think they use windmills and watermills to drive the compressors. Some use diesel or even steam engines, as they had adopted belt driven tools years ago and it is fairly easy to belt drive a compressor and then feed the air to the tools.

That's more plausible, but those engines need electricity in some form to run, unles they crank start them. As for the windmills and water wheels, I don't see those building up enough compression to run the tools for very long, but it's possible.

Burr:And, under certain circumstances, they are allowed to use gas generators as well.

Which produce electricity, and would just cut out the middle man and remove the need for the air powered tools anyway. This is what will keep me up at nights now, everything leads to a new paradox, IMHO.

They do. There's a thriving Amish community in north central Ohio not far from where I went to college, and the machine shop I saw there (using belt driven tools) had a hand started diesel motor to turn the belts and a giant spaghetti system of belts running all over the place.

Mikey1969:Which produce electricity, and would just cut out the middle man and remove the need for the air powered tools anyway. This is what will keep me up at nights now, everything leads to a new paradox, IMHO.

Sometimes I think it is less about "not using electricity" and more about "staying off the grid". Amish communities thrive on self sustainability and try not to get entrapped with "ease of access to electricity" which would diminish their ability to survive.

Remember a few years ago when that psycho attacked and killed some kids in one of their schools? IIRC the cops killed him, but the Amish weren't screaming for vengeance. They were sad, but very calm and even forgiving. That may sound a bit crazy but it's actually very sane.

If I'm ever really down on my luck and become homeless I'm going to find an Amish community. I have no doubt that they'd offer me a place to sleep and some food to eat. It might not be luxurious, but it would be better than sleeping on the street. They'd probably expect me to do some chores, but that's totally fair.

Maybe I'm wrong. I know they don't really like outsiders, but if I were willing to make an effort, I think they'd help.

Also, my (now deceased) father in law was talking to one of the local Amish one day. The Amish man was lamenting the fact that he used to be able to predict the weather based on how the animals acted, and lost that ability because of the weather report in the newspaper.

discordium:I am really curious, too. How is it OK to power an air compressor or hydraulics, but not power the saw? Are there Amish rules on direct use of power? Anyone help?

It's kind of complicated. The rules are locally determined by district and bishop and sect. But the general idea is ... Will this technology move people away from their relationship with God/family/religious community? And/or will it bring with it, other influences that may do so?"

For instance, some farmers will have electricity or generator for the barn, but not for the house. Reason being, that you can have a milking operation that conforms to local sanitary laws in order to run your business and sell your milk, but there is no electricity in the house to run TV/Radio/ Microwave that could erode family life and bring in outside ideas/values.

Sometimes there's just generator because being connected to the grid is forcing you to be a part of the outside world. Not that have to buy diesel for your generator doesn't connect you to the world either, but some see it as a lesser evil.

Again, it all varies by sect. And remember that this is religion that we're talking about. Religion can produce all kinds of cognitive dissonance if you think about it too hard.

discordium:Burr: Burr: Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They are allowed to use hydraulics...

And, under certain circumstances, they are allowed to use gas generators as well.

I am really curious, too. How is it OK to power an air compressor or hydraulics, but not power the saw? Are there Amish rules on direct use of power? Anyone help?

help? ok, religion's rules be cray cray yo. like that big debate they had in judaism about whether pushing elevator buttons constituted doing 'work' on the sabbath. so instead, now elevators just stop on all the floors so they don't have to do the serious business of pushing buttons on the sabbath. pretty much all religions are like this. i just used this anecdote because i found it highly amusing when i first heard about it.

They do. There's a thriving Amish community in north central Ohio not far from where I went to college, and the machine shop I saw there (using belt driven tools) had a hand started diesel motor to turn the belts and a giant spaghetti system of belts running all over the place.

That's insane, but at least the dielsels don't need electric spark, so they stay away from that...

Burr:Mikey1969: Which produce electricity, and would just cut out the middle man and remove the need for the air powered tools anyway. This is what will keep me up at nights now, everything leads to a new paradox, IMHO.

Sometimes I think it is less about "not using electricity" and more about "staying off the grid". Amish communities thrive on self sustainability and try not to get entrapped with "ease of access to electricity" which would diminish their ability to survive.

/my 2 cents

That actually makes sense. It might also explain how you can buy that "hand-crafted Amish fireplace" which is really just an electric fireplace with a nice wooden frame. :-)

discordium:Burr: Burr: Mikey1969: Hey dipshiats, how do you compress the air? Happy thoughts? Yes there are manual air compressors, but I'd bet they aren't enough to power a shop full of tools all day.

They are allowed to use hydraulics...

And, under certain circumstances, they are allowed to use gas generators as well.

I am really curious, too. How is it OK to power an air compressor or hydraulics, but not power the saw? Are there Amish rules on direct use of power? Anyone help?

They will use technology as part of their work but refrain from using it to make their home life "easy".

We added an addition to our house this year - we used an Amish framing crew we have known for years.They arrive on time and are working within seconds of arrival. They use a non-Amish person to drive them around (almost an hour to my house) they pay the guy to basically sit there all day and run the occassional errand.

They happily used a gasoline generator, electric and battery powered drills and saws and the "boss" would use the drivers cell phone whenever he needed to make a call - if it is for work they (at least from this sect) can pretty much use whatever is needed to do the job - obviously no one would hire them if it took 50 times as long for them to cut every board with a hand saw and drive every nail with a hammer.

All in all they are very nice people, humble (being humble is very important), hard working and respectful.

* The Amish Computer has more channels blocked out than the Flander's Family TV.* Your Mother can understand it.* No $5 fee for TotalFark.* Runs on two AAA batteries.* Sound is permanently muted.* No danger of NSFW material.* It costs less than a Palm Pilot and does everything a Palm Pilot can do.* It's got a built-in perpetual calendar--made of paper--so no Y3K problems.* It can be moved around with a hand-cart, so yes, it has mobile capability.* It's already totally non-compatible with 4G, 5G and 6G communications.* It comes in any color you like provided you are inordinately fond of black.* It is Microsoft and Apple crap-ware free.* The desk top consists of a real desk top in your choice of walnut, maple, birch or pine.* It won't be obsolete before you buy it. It's already obsolete before it's built.

My fiance works at a company that creates test kits to detect antibiotics in milk and she talks to amish farmers from time to time on the phone - always struck me as funny

Amish people are generally permitted to use phones. They desire to keep technology and such things out of their homes to minimize the intrusion or effects, but they can go to a centrally-located phone - e.g. in town somewhere - to make a call.

If, for some odd reason, you are ever around north central-ish Ohio (a little to the east actually) this is a pretty neat place to stop.

Also recommended is Heines Cheese Chalet... its basically like when you go to the supermarket and they have a free sample of cheese.... X 100.Resist the urge to sample all the cheese, your colon will thank you by not bricking up.

/Also, a bakery is across the road and a winery (Breitenbachs) is not too far away. So, you can have a cheese, bread, and wine day courtesy of the Amish.

Burr:Mikey1969: That actually makes sense. It might also explain how you can buy that "hand-crafted Amish fireplace" which is really just an electric fireplace with a nice wooden frame. :-)

Lehmans Non-Electric Amish Goods

If, for some odd reason, you are ever around north central-ish Ohio (a little to the east actually) this is a pretty neat place to stop.

Also recommended is Heines Cheese Chalet... its basically like when you go to the supermarket and they have a free sample of cheese.... X 100.[assets.byways.org image 160x240]Resist the urge to sample all the cheese, your colon will thank you by not bricking up.

/Also, a bakery is across the road and a winery (Breitenbachs) is not too far away. So, you can have a cheese, bread, and wine day courtesy of the Amish.

That would be cool if I ever made it up that way. Love the cheese shop thing, we have a local grocery store that actually has a cheesemonger, yum!!