43 responses to “Hanlon's Theatre: this is a real ad”

Covers his ass nicely with the “… but you don’t need to be in the pew every Sunday,” since I doubt highly that he spends much time there. It also lets all the fine Christian folk who only attend church on major holidays and for weddings and funerals know that Ricky still considers them fine, pious, righteous, faith-based Americans.

Yeah, apparently if you can’t force your religious beliefs and celebrations down the throats of everyone around you it doesn’t count. You can pray anywhere you want, you can attend church every damn day if you want, you can celebrate every Christian holiday in whatever way you like — you just can’t force everyone else around you to do the same thing or act like they believe the same things you do. And that’s the rub.

Meh. Fortunately he’s such an idiot as to really be inconsequential at this stage. Wouldn’t he and OneL make a dreamy Republican presidential ticket?

He’s not lying. When the valedictorian can’t say a prayer at a commencement ceremoney it’s a problem, and in fact that does happen.

There’s a well-documented back-story behind the establishment clause, and it has *nothing* to do with the acknowledgement or practice of religion at state-sponsored events, in state buildings, or by civil servants.

So tell me, John, what about the Jews, Muslims, Hindi, Pagan or other religioned people at the same commencement ceremony? Hell, what about those who don’t have a religion? Most of these prayers are said from a Christian angle.

This is why religion is supposed to be left out of these situations. Because you don’t know all the faiths of the people present. And sorry, I don’t feel like worshiping this person’s Version of God, or praying to it, or them saying a prayer on my behalf to it. Better to have no religious tie in, than to waste time on having EVERY religion having a prayer or words of wisdom or whatever said.

“When the valedictorian can’t say a prayer at a commencement ceremoney (sic) it’s a problem, and in fact that does happen.”

Matthew 6: But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, close your door and pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees WHAT IS DONE in secret will reward you. And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words. So do not be like them; for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Of course, JC didn’t realize that one day there would be such a thing as a high school commencement valedictory speech, or American public school classrooms, or high school football games, or even a democratic (would you prefer ‘republican”?) electorate that would pressure their various local, state and national governments to model themselves on the electorates’ narrow view of Him, or argue about worldly things like whether HE is permitted in their consititutions, but there you have it. He probably didn’t dream, nor could He conceive, that there would be eejits like Rick Perry, Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin and Rick Santorum running in His name. Good thing we can fix that for Him.

Yes frito, the obvious retort is that when you have the microphone you can say whatever you choose, and by the same token when someone else has it they should be able to say a prayer if that’s what they choose to say. Even if your interpretation of your scripture says it’s in poor taste to pray out loud.

If you think prayer is so dangerous, then perhaps you should ban public speaking at these events. Maybe that’s the way you should kill God. But in the meantime, as long as people are permitted to speak then whether they pray is a matter of free speech.

“Even if your interpretation etc etc and so forth and so on.” Not my interpretation. It’s a direct quote from the you-know-what that so many think contains all the right answers and one need look nowhere else, etc. etc. Not my interpretation. Run with it.

“Also, I must say that it’s funny as hell to see liberals scrambling to declare prayer “offensive” when one considers all the utter obscenity that they will defend as “free speech.””

IMO, there is no such thing as Free Speech; thankfully Canada realizes this and as much as people can say what they wish, there are limits to what can be said, and there should be. Not just the whole “Fire” in a theater thing, but hate speech, speech to encourage violence, threats, etc and so on. It’s what’s helped us keep psycho’s like WBC out of Canada but lets them prat their so called God down in the US.

“Jesus is okay in a bucket of urine, but God forbid some smart kid credits Him for motivating him to study and get good grades. That would be offensive.”

A smart kid can credit Jesus, Buddha, The Great Earth Mother, God, Krishna or whoever they want for motivating them to get good grades. That’s not at issue. What is the issue is them saying, in front of other people who may not be of their faith, that they all should thank that one deity for their achievements. If they’re going to credit Jesus, then they should also credit all other religious figures/deities as well. If they did that, well for me there’d be no issue.

If you want equal time for Jewish prayer, then the Jewish kid can have that time when he’s won the right to speak at the mic.”

And I’d be saying the same if it was a Jewish kid if they brought their religion into it; that they’d have to include all religions, or none.

Really the easiest way is to not mention it at all and let each person instead thank whoever or whatever on their own. If there has to be some form of God-worship or something at events like this, give a moment of silence so people CAN say a prayer to their deity of choice.

Why is it a problem when the valedictorian can’t say a prayer at a commencement ceremoney (sic)? What if the valedictorian is an atheist, and doesn’t feel like saying a prayer? I didn’t know that was included in the job description.

“What about them? They’ll probably all still be Jews, Muslims, etc., and they’ll be completely unharmed. And nobody will complain if they say a prayer of their own during moments of silence.”

As Mrs. B said – Christians can do the same, no need for prayer by any religion.

“Actually, I’m pretty sure the “argument” for leaving out religion is a constitutional one. And I’m even more sure that the constitutional argument has *nothing* to do with “knowing all the faiths of the people present.”

Obviously the meaning of what I posted went over your head; that’s okay though, I expected no less.

“But if what you *really* mean is that it’s usually atheists who have no religion of their own (not Jews, Muslims, etc.) who sue to keep religion out of the state events, and that the “Christianity offends people of other religions” concept is entirely bullshit, made up in order to advance an atheist agenda, that isn’t the intent of the First Amendment at all, then I’m inclined to agree.”

I wouldn’t say not entirely bullshit, John. Some kids are smart enough to realize that just because they’re Christian doesn’t mean they should take every opportunity to remind the world they are Christian. If kids want to pray in the school, they should be going to a private, Church run school. They can pray to their hearts content there. But public school is a totally different matter and prayer doesn’t belong there. And yes, that includes, IMO, Muslims and their five times a day stuff and the special conditions some schools go through to provide a place for them. Unless they do it on their break/meal times, which is their personal times, they shouldn’t be doing it at all.

“public school is a totally different matter and prayer doesn’t belong there”

It’s the people’s school, and the people can pray there. That’s the meaning of the Constitution, except that so many (like yourself) are too ignorant to understand it. When a citizen has the microphone, whatever they want to say is protected free speech — including prayer.

I’m sure you already understand the background and the original intent of the establishment clause. It has everything to do with restricting the state from imposing religion on the people, and nothing to do with restricting people from being religious in public settings.

I’m sorry if the Constitution isn’t more clear on this, but the truth is that they didn’t have the same kind of intolerant useful idiots that we have today back when it was written.

How so is a student a customer when the state will call them truant if they don’t show up, have the cops pick them up, and the state will cut funding if attendance doesn’t meet a certain floor? Customer my ass.

“It’s the people’s school and the people can pray there. That’s the meaning of the Constitution, except etc. and blah-blah.” Perhaps, in a club setting, or in a set-aside space. As for pushing prayer on the student body at-large, I do believe the federal courts have said otherwise. Correct me if I’m stupid.

@John Galt
Yes, dick, that’s the whole point of the separation of church and state. People can silently pray whenever and wherever they want to. They don’t need a microphone and they shouldn’t expect everyone else to join them or wait while they do it. My goodness you’re dense.

<i>In the United States, the term is an offshoot of the phrase, “wall of separation between church and state,” as written in Thomas Jefferson’s letter to the Danbury Baptist Association in 1802. The original text reads: “… I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.” Jefferson reflected his frequent speaking theme that the government is not to interfere with religion.[7]</i>

If the state gives someone a microphone to make personal comments, then it’s perfectly constitutional for them to say a prayer. If you limit what they say, then you’re violating their First Amendment rights.

You are. The federal courts are not the Constitution, and the original intent of the establishment clause is not ambiguous simply because liberals choose to interpret it incorrectly. Putting liberal judges on the bench doesn’t change it either.

Where but Texas, and maybe Arizona, could dumb fucks like Perry and Shrub be elected Governor? Oh, I forgot Florida, where Bush stole the election with that criminal, Kathrine Harris’, assistance. Oh, not to forget the “Supremes” inappropriate assistance..

The United States is a wonderful country. Anyone who is a natural born citizen, shall be eligible to the office of President; attained to the age of thirty-five years, and been fourteen years a resident within the United States.

The Constitution does not disallow stupid people. Nor does it disallow stupid people with money backing a stupid person’s candidacy.

Also, for good or bad, stupid people get to vote.

Even stupid people with a college education can run for president and vote.

Stupid people can decide an election.

Is this stupid or inevitable?

I give you George W. Bush.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Stupid can include either a lack of intelligence or common sense…or both. Hello George and Rick!

“”Shouldn’t”? WTF is “shouldn’t”? It’s a free country, and the state should rightly be powerless to stop people from praying wherever they are.”

If you’re going to quote me, John, use the whole damn quote. As it is, yes, I don’t believe there should be ANY prayer in schools that are public. Private school is different. It’s paid for by like-minded people and as such they can dictate how the school is run. The state, however, cannot allow there to be any “sides” given. And IMO, it would be better to keep religion OUT of the schools. That’s what church is for. School is for learning about everything else the Church won’t teach, or doesn’t want kids to know or learn about.

“You people who worry that what one person says in prayer might somehow “offend” another person have no clue what the First Amendment is about. Offensive speech is the *most* protected kind. Consider the hypocrisy of all the things you’d insist a person *could* say, compared to the things you’d forbid them from saying. It boggles the mind.”

Thankfully I live in Canada where it’s not something so mind boggeling. Here, offensive speech is NOT protected, as it shouldn’t be. If you want to be offensive, be prepared to get into trouble for it. Of course it depends on the level of offensiveness, but even a loud, obnoxious drunk idiot can be charged for disturbing the peace or being offensive in public.