anyone that thinks new order are better than joy division are, to put it bluntly, massive gay-tards.

And this is based entirely on how i KNOW for a fact that joy division are unbelievable, and how i dont know exactly how good new order were, but how much of a cock peter hook seemed to become after about 1985.

What's heroic about him? Did he show extraordinary courage or bravery? Make some kind of sacrifice for their greater good?

No he fucking didn't, did he? So why the fuck would anyone call him a hero?

Please note this has fuck-all to do with Ian Curtis. I just really hate the use of the word "hero" to describe people who actually didn't do anything that could in anyway be described as noble, courageous, self-sacrificing or in any other sense "heroic"

Yeah, JD gets the nod here, but I hesitate to remind everyone NO's first album was fucking great. Even the second one was good and from there just the odd good single, but ...erm, I dunno... Blue Monday ruled the nightclubs for only about 10 freakin years.