Attack Of The Manjaws!

Something is afoot in the land. An ossified pall hardens like cement over our Western women. Armies of bony, chiseled, jutting mandibles of maxillofacial transsexuality following in formation behind blitzkrieging boffo chins are mowing down reserves of beauty and femininity.

The horror!

Run for your lives!

It shoots friggin’ laser beams from its chin!

Her jaw is a geometric proof.

Overdeveloped blowjob muscles?

What is happening to our ladies? Their collective femininity is disappearing before our eyes. First come the manjaws, then come the newlywed chicks who sign up for internet cuckold-making services offering endless discreet trysts and humps in the alley behind Wawa. The traditional domain of women — their softness and erotic vulnerability — is yielding to a Grrl Brigade who look like they chew nails for fun. I half expect AskMen’s next Top 100 Babes to sport stubble.

The manjaw plague didn’t happen overnight, though it seems that way. It’s been in the works for a couple of generations now. Reasons abound.

One word: Plastics. Are endocrine disrupting chemicals in that cherished SWPL standby, the plastic water bottle, masculinizing our women?

Parabens. Or is it the stuff put into cosmetics? Could women be slavering testosterone boosters onto their cheeks each time the get ready for a night out on the town?

The Pill. Let’s face it, the pill has been a huge society-wide experiment on women (and men, indirectly), which… interesting… ramifications are only now coming to light.

Soft polygamy. What happens when you give women the run of the place? Well, besides voting for socialist diaper changers, you get a bunch of chicks chasing lantern-jawed alpha males and having illegitimate children by them, leading inexorably to future generations of more masculine daughters being raised by ever more feminine beta hubbies.

A combination of all the above.

On my occasional forays into the ghetto, I recurrently note just how beastly the local girls look. Huge jaws and brows that could sprout Wolverine claws when roused to anger. Maybe this is the end result of a mating market where generations of women have spread for the most violent, thuggish men in the hood. If so, is there a trickle up effect to the rest of society? Are redneck girls getting manlier also? Will the upper classes figuratively and literally barricade themselves from the manjaw invasion, creating not only a cognitive elite but a neotenous elite? I can imagine the pendulum swinging back in time, as legions of red-blooded American men become so turned off by the Lara Croftian trannies in their midst that a price premium is placed on the pixies, nymphs and sprites. Perhaps all this masculinization of our women will render their wombs barren, restricting their ability to contribute to the next generation. Demographic shift happens.

We must return to the old ways before beauty and sublime femininity all but disappear from the land. We must find a way to bring back the dainty, feminine jawline. I’ll do my part by banging only flaky, neurotic waifs who don’t have an ambitious delicate bone in their bodies.

“When selection favors sexual dimorphism, high-fitness parents often produce low-fitness progeny of the opposite sex. This sexual conflict is thought to overwhelm the genetic benefits of mate choice because preferred males incur a cost through the production of low-fitness daughters. We provide a counterpoint in a lizard (Anolis sagrei) that exhibits sexual conflict over body size. By using mate-choice experiments, we show that female brown anoles produce more sons than daughters via large sires but more daughters than sons via small sires. Measures of progeny fitness in the wild suggest that maximal fitness payoffs can be achieved by shifting offspring production from daughters to sons as sire size increases. These results illustrate how the resolution of sexual conflict can restore the genetic benefits of mate choice.”

I’m starting to suspect that Angelina Jolie was in her true physical form as she-dragon-monster in the “Beowulf” movie, and is digitally altered to look human in all other appearances, including publicity and paparazzi photos.

I have angular facial features for a woman, which thanks to this website I’ve become rather self conscious about, although I was aware of it before. I look like my alpha (somewhat) father rather then my feminine mother. There’s really not much I can do about it short of plastic surgery. My saving grace is that I’ve alway had a nice figure. Anyway, although my facial features are not ideal for a woman, I think some of these same features in my brother, father and my two sons make them handsome.

Back during the 1980s, redneck/prole girls were hot. Sure, many dressed tacky, spray-feathered their hair way past 1983, had ‘tude and dressed crass…

but underneath the excess makeup and cheap perfume many had pretty, vivacious faces; they were thin, leggy, and spirited in an attractively feminine way when shown in good light. A visit to a working-class area McDonalds was a treat for the eyes.

Today, thirty years later, are they getting manlier also? sadly, hard to say underneath all that fat.

Being on an eastern European vacation, I have noticed that while your beloved slavic girls are indeed very feminine, the local guys look really hard. So your theory of chicks going for thugs making the next generation more masculine seems incorrect. Wouldn’t it make the sons masculine and the daughter’s feminine?

Also, everything I’ve heard about plastics is that they add estrogen to the body, but that is only as it pertains to men. Why wouldn’t it work the same on both?

@Laura,
and there you have it. One of the ugliest babies I’ve ever seen was had by two “beautiful people”. It’s revenge of the nerds. When the betas do manage to reproduce their own actual progeny, they create beautiful women.

Agree on many of them, but that’s a wholly unrepresentative shot of Olivia Wilde at the bottom (’13’ on House). She’s a definitely feminine looking woman, in a model thin kind of way. Not my type but a 10 for sure, in any scheme which allows for 10s and doesn’t just elevate one’s idiosyncratically most favored type.

I have angular facial features for a woman, which thanks to this website I’ve become rather self conscious about, although I was aware of it before. I look like my alpha (somewhat) father rather then my feminine mother. There’s really not much I can do about it short of plastic surgery.

Hair and makeup, especially hair can do a lot to soften an angular look. Longer hair worn in a face framing style, rather than pulled back.

I think under matriarchies, where the most masculine men impregnate the most women, the pull will be towards masculinized people, both male and female, over several generations, because the more delicate-looking (gay-faced) men will father less children than their bigger brothers do. Its funny to me that “masculinized” women still want the most masculine men possible to act as a foil to themselves. If they wanted pretty daughters, they’d pick more suave-looking men. People can be mated for breeds just as surely as dogs can be. Ive read that most dog breeds only came to being over the last few hundred years by selective breeding for various traits. Just think…….the Old English sheepdog with all that hair is still related to an English Bulldog with short hair, and an enormous Irish Wolfhound. Same set of islands, just different breeding strategies by professional breeders. Middle Eastern and Caucasian men are really hairy (chests, back, legs), but Asian men seldom have much hair below the neck, and usually have sparse hair on their faces. It would probably be perplexing to an alien. The Aniu in Japan are really hairy…..Asians. But then Human biodiversity is a taboo subject so I guess we must be politically correct and not ask about these verbotten things.

a lot of these women probably have much lower body fat percentages than average women. i don’t just mean that they’re not fatties, but that female celebrities are much leaner and more sinewy in appearance than your everyday hottie. this may contribute to the disticnt jawline.

As well to some extent, a meme gets kicked off around here almost always by H and there can be group think. Some really already agreed and there’s a band wagon effect.

I don’t think Elin Nordigren is very masculine looking myself, despite this choice of picture. Joie has certain become more and more so as she’s aged however. I think she tries to accentuate that actually. It’s her niche, esp. since Laura Croft.

I think you’re missing the obvious reason- as the taboo against exploiting feminine sexuality evaporates, “beauty” has come to be re-defined in terms of T & A much more than facial beauty. Most of the women in the photos in the post have crazy bodies. If compared side to side, face only, I think most men (and women) would still select dainty feminine facial features as more attractive. Throw in the T’s or a full body shot, and facial features become only one of many beauty variables. Back in the day, a woman had her face and her “figure”, that was not nearly as exposed and accentuated as it is today.

I think it’s interesting that the female examples above are linked to “pretty” and/or beta men.

BPAs in plastics not only mess with the female endocrine system but males also because they act like estrogen in the body. Could these men be choosing manlier looking women to compensate for something they are lacking?

Further, as western women gain weight and breed more and more hypo/hyperglycemic disposed genetics into the human soup, we are more susceptible to insulin issues. High levels of insulin promote higher levels of testosterone. So, a pregnant female with higher levels of testosterone may have a manlier looking girl baby. If she has higher levels of estrogen, she may have a girlier looking boy baby. And the cycle continues until we breed manly men and feminine women out of the populace. Not sure about the others, but Angelina had fertility issues – one of the simplest reasons for infertility in women is an insulin imbalance interfering with estrogen and ovulation so in her case, it is entirely possible hormones are the cause of that crazy jaw line.

“…the taboo against exploiting feminine sexuality evaporates, “beauty” has come to be re-defined in terms of T & A much more than facial beauty…Throw in the T’s or a full body shot, and facial features become only one of many beauty variables. Back in the day, a woman had her face and her “figure”, that was not nearly as exposed and accentuated as it is today.”

I know that in BSG, Number 6 was supposed to be some super sexy, femme fatale type. But I never found Tricia Helfer very appealing – and the reason is she’s all angular…and well…manly, for me. To me, Grace Park was far sexier, and normally I’m not that attracted to Asian woman.

These women are really the products of their mother’s breeding with alpha men who have strong jaws. This type of woman has always existed because alpha males have always been rather successful at breeding. I think you are just noticing it more because the ideal has shifted from a round face and a thin, soft body to the more hard-edged look. It is certainly possible that we will see the softer side back in style in a couple of decades. Don’t fret.

I wonder if there is any correlation to man-jaws and deeper voices too? My square faced friends tend to have lower tones.

This also reminds me of a conversation I had with one of these man-jaw friends of mine – she bragged about how having a square jaw line allows her to wear her hair any length/style and still be attractive to which I remarked “yes, but what hairstyle will make you look less like a man?” Luckily, she knows my sense of humor and just threw a shoe at me.

I agree with you Sidewinder that the whole package makes a difference. This particular friend I mentioned had a killer body and no trouble finding a date.

I wonder if there isn’t something to the HGH theory. As well there’s been a considerable fashion in Hollywood at least since Laura Croft for comic book girl/woman warrior types, dominatrixes of a sort. I wonder if some don’t get testosterone injections. Probably helps them keep weight off too, which as well adds to the athletic, masculine, but w/great tits and ass, look.

Women with masculine facial features seem to be more prevalent in Hollywood these days. Its not so clear that they are more prevalent every where in society. What is clear to me is that obesity is far more prevalent in every day society today than it was 30-40 years ago and that this is a much bigger trend than athletic women with masculine facial features.

BTW, Fergie (in the third photo) is just absolutely hideous. As much as I can’t stand Angeline Jolie, Fergie is far more repellent to me.

Well she looks rather strange. Pointy jaw. She’s good looking yes, but certainly not traditionally feminine looking. Tom boyish looking really, more than girl warrior sort. She reminds me a little of …. she was in this sorta chic flick about a girl determined to force a guy to marry her … a blonde … guy was a mid 30s tv show producer or assist producer or something on the rise and she’s an interior designer. ak, got it. She married Pete Sampras. Brigitte Wilson. That’s who alessandra’s looks remind me of a bit. Well Brigitte seems pretty scary to me.

The way women of a particular race look probably has not changed within the last several decades. It would probably take longer to seriously alter the facial phenotypes of a kind of women.

However, two things might have occured.

1) Racial mixing from blacks trickles into the caucasian gene pool and results in “white” women with more masculine features. Who’s to say Angelina Jolie isn’t 1/10th black? The longer we live in a racially mixed society, the greater percentage of offspring will have some mix of other races in them.

2) Women have not changed, but gay men are more prominent. Hence, in any media endeavor more masculine women get more attention. Thus, what is on the Askmen top 100 list doesn’t necessarily reflect the way the rest of the population looks.

This picture encapsulates so many themes that have bounced around inside my head:

That blonde could be classically beautiful. She has a bunch of tattoos because she thinks they make her look “badass”, and she thinks (wrongly) that men are attracted to “badass” women because she is attracted to badass men. Jesse James aside (outlier), men aren’t attracted to “tough-chicks”. Men like delicate, effiminate women who are the soft-foil to their hard-masculinity. That blonde is a classic case of projection. Her heavy eye-make-up is applied aggressively in such a way as to make her look like a tough-woman-to-be-reckoned-with or vampy-chick. It actually detracts from her very blue eyes. A little blue-eye shadow and light eye-liner would make those eyes look larger and more vunerable, which would make the hair on men’s chest stand up.

By trying to masculinize her look, she has made herself less desireable. A tall task because she’s pretty damned hot. If a really good beauty consultant could work with her, he’d have her in a shapely dress or blouse with tight slacks, just the right amount of make-up, low-heels, nice earrings and shiny brooch dangling low on her neck. Im thinking white, beige, or tan bouse. Glittering jewelry. She’d sparkle and men seeing her across a room would draw a quick intake of breath and their lungs would immediately fill to capacity and the extra oxygen would run down to their balls (orders from above: manufacture more testosterone) and their dicks would begin to fill with blood despite themselves. Instead men look at her and figure: biker chick thats slept with 50 men. Herpes. Fuhgget-it.

“Women have not changed, but gay men are more prominent. Hence, in any media endeavor more masculine women get more attention.”

Yeah, this could have something to do with it (regarding my question). But what about the women who are on the covers of maxim/playboy/in porn. It is more likely that straight men are selecting these women to display for the masses.

The number one thing that a relative lot of tatoos esp. big ones in prominent, indiscreet locations, and piercings are meant to and do communicate is that the girl is a tiger in bed, available fast for alpha males, and willing /wanting to be totally abandoned / submissive for them without any need for security or commitment first. She probably doesn’t consciously think all that and might well want to get a better deal, but she’s subconsciously advertising that’s where she is on the spectrum.

Just the next rung up the ladder toward a global government, i.e. merging the sexes into one, horrible amalgam of the worst parts of masculine and feminine. In 20 years, girls will be born with dicks. At least that’s what Alex Jones told me…

Now the big question is how did these men with boobs get to be famous and worshipped by the teeming masses?

Oprah is famous too, and though she has her fans, she isn’t exactly a sex symbol.

Obviously, most men think that these women are gorgeous.

If you don’t then you’re a freak.

I don’t mean if you say you don’t to make CH happy, but then chase women who look like that and are trying to, in real life. I mean if you truly could not get a boner for them no matter how many other guys do, because they look like men to you.

To be that kind of freak is very rare, and I would bet that most of you who deride them here, now, are lying. Any other day, you’d be wanking to them or their peers.

So instead of jumping on the bandwagon of someone who does have a long standing preference of a type that is within the very feminine end of the spectrum, let’s do something constructive and explain why you in the past have spent money to look at such women, and energy encouraging women to look like that…and why in your past you have likely rejected perfectly fit women who just didn’t fit that image.

Emily, actually feminists are the origin and the driving force behind the boy look. Google the history of Twiggy and modelling. They haven’t managed to hunt down and destroy all related documentation, partly because Gay men are sick of getting the blame for this.

The men who buy the hype are just sheeple who fell for the scheme.

Notice, actual butch women and bodybuilders are still considered fringe. Angela Basset was considered to be too butch for most people’s tastes, for instance.

I don’t think women in general have more masculine faces; it’s more that the current “in” look for women is more masculine. This could be due to a number of factors: the preeminence of gay taste in style-making, the influence of feminism seeking “strong” looks to show that women aren’t soft and weak, and American obesity leading to obsession with thinness/athleticism as a status symbol are the ones that come to my mind. The end result is that the women who receive the most attention are the ones who exhibit the strong jawline and more athletic (broad-shouldered, narrow-hipped, yet slender arms and legs) builds. More traditionally feminine women still exist, but their looks are not in vogue. Consider how much attention Christina Hendricks of Mad Men receives for ~daring~ to have a voluptuous body. Fifty years ago she’d have been considered much less of an oddity in the entertainment world. Nowadays a lot of people just think she’s fat.

I also wonder if, in our highly sex-charged culture, more masculine-looking women are given more value because their body’s advertisement of more testosterone signals easier-to-get sex and better quality.

Agree that something is up. Not just man jaws… But female hair growth has increased I think.

In the old days women could get by on waxing etc maybe once in a while. They just didn’t have that much extra hair – regardless of race or being “mediterranean” or whatever. (Even Frida Kahlo’s paiting were way worse than her in photos.)

Today, the hair removal industry has boomed. And not just because of increasing demands for hairlessness. I really things girls have more hair – the delicate balance between androgens, testosterone and enzymes is whacked.

My mom, aunts, and female cousins in India only had to start removing hair (legsies etc) in adulthood – like college. And one wax was enough for like a year of smoothness.

Heard similar things from other immigrant/first gen girls.

Us girls in the US however? Not that way, unfortunately. Have to start at puberty (which we hit sooner than our cousins back in the old country). And have to deal with it longer and more aggressively. Sucksssss…hatttteee it. I bet even East Asian girls are hairier in the West, than they are back in Asia.

I bet that would be a great way to test out some of these theories… Compare people in families where some live in an industrialized country with plastics, etc. with those who don’t.

By the way, this is gonna be weird to say… But I tried taking natural hormones (like fennel seed capsules and wild yam rubs and stuff) when I was like 23 to grow my bust. Now I’m really interested in Suzanne Somers hormoe therapy for antiaging, although she got breast cancer from it apparently. Natural breast growth horror stories I read online talked about people getting endometriosis etc and I stopped. (Interestingly they seem to have grown lately per the fiancee… I have been going organic and in a more girly state of mind with him… but who knows)

I don’t understand why this (tranny) look is so popular right now. I hear from lots of men that they think these kinds of women are gross. where is this popularity coming from?

It’s because most men don’t think these women are gross. Some do, fine. But really, most don’t. I’m sure I could go out and poll 500 men on the street right now (500 straight men), and a ridiculous majority of them would say that they think Angelina Jolie or “Thirteen from House” is H O T.

Women have gotten more athletic. Fifty years ago no women played sports or worked out. I know some women who workout a lot. While they are thinner in general and more fit I think sometimes they look more masculine. If a women eats sensibly basically a half hour walk a day (and not being too sedentary in general) is all the exercise she needs to maintain her weight.

i can’t stand these types of masuculine women that the media shoves down our throats. why do they do it? good question. i hate fake breasts and shaved pussies as well. give me the good old natural beauty any day!

solution? marry and have kids with Asian women. they are feminine, smart, hot, and great mothers. the children (1/2 white, 1/2 Asian) are beautiful and smart.

@z
“That blonde could be classically beautiful. She has a bunch of tattoos because she thinks they make her look “badass”, and she thinks (wrongly) that men are attracted to “badass” women because she is attracted to badass men”

I do 90% of my pickup “in real life”, however I also have an adultmatchmaker profile that I basically use as a drag net to gather “low investment” lays. I have tattooed sleeves and you would not BELIEVE the amount of girls who leave me messages ASSUMING I should be attracted to them by default because “Hey, I have tattoos too!”.

They get really angry with me when I reject them for not being “feminine” enough. These women can’t seem to understand how basic masculine/feminine polarity works.

Such a shame, because as you said a lot of them would be really attractive otherwise. I mean, damn… I would rather them have a face full of piercings even.

Z says, “Its funny to me that “masculinized” women still want the most masculine men possible to act as a foil to themselves.”

A butch woman is still a woman. Her relative masculinity compared to others in an ethnically diverse environment has no bearing on her actual needs.

There’s a line though, between a woman who’s strong, and a woman who is masculine. That is the neck. Relative masculinity is only from the neck down because no matter how much a woman with sufficient estrogen works out, she is never going to have as much testosterone as a man. So unless something is masking her estrogen (like steroids), she’s got what she’s got.

Feminists have an interest in herding men towards more masculine, older women. These women would do just fine under a more nature friendly system because some damned body would marry them if they were interested in being decent wives. Women aren’t supposed to want to be decent anymore though. They’re supposed to be men with vaginas who let daycare raise their kids, and you men are supposed to be turned on by women like that.

It’s not just a look they’re selling. The look that they’re selling comes with an ideology that you’re supposed to buy.

Men like variety. Porn has variety in the main, variety in the niches, and a variety of all kinds of people doing all kinds of nasty stuff. Porn is dependent on the reality of actual fantasies to make money. Porn doesn’t do ideals or ideology. It does sex.

The mainstream, corporate controlled media though, attempts to shape fantasies according to its agenda to shape reality. It can apparently social proof a tranny looking woman who probably has AIS, into being the feminine ideal.

Brace yourself to be told, should you ever open your mouth about your dislike of the ManJaw, that you’re oppressing women by liking them to be soft and smaller than you, or even soft and rounder than you. Men will also say that you’re Gay for not liking the most worshipped sex(ually confused) symbols of the day. Either way, you’re not kneeling before the Great Harpy of Tomb-I-mean-Doom, even while feminists are now kissing fat women’s ass. The next trend is going to be the Great Breast Reduced Potato Torsoed Banshee of Boom.

Even scarier than the manjaws are the statistics at the bottom AshleyMadison.com article she linked to:

“Membership figures as of March 2010:

In the Greater Toronto Area:

159,611 members (up from 82,959 a year ago)

111,202 male

48,409 female

All of Canada, U.S., U.K. and Australia

5,410,347 members (up from 2,802,664 a year ago)

3,898,468 male

1,511,879 female”

Now you may think: ‘okay so there’s less girls than guys cheating, good think.’ But cheater Susan says she has had four affairs, meaning she’s running a male harem. And according to mathamatics, she’s likely had eight affairs. The article hints female hypergamy given the 300 percent increase in newlywed females registering at the site.

“Women have gotten more athletic. Fifty years ago no women played sports or worked out. I know some women who workout a lot. While they are thinner in general and more fit I think sometimes they look more masculine. “

Really?

I think most people, both men and women, are fatter today than they were 20 years ago. Sure, the women I see in the gym are athletic and hot. But most women I see in the airports, planes, and in stores seem fatter to me than they did during the 1980’s.

I think this obsessing over athletic “masculine” women is quite silly. You should obsess over obesity instead. It is real problem in this society.

Genitically speaking, we are looking for what we do not have. High testosterone men want high estrogen women and those inbetween want others inbetween.

Too much testosterone lowers the imune system. No point in being big and tough if you die before you are 12. In fact the whole point of the RED QUEEN is that we need good imune systems. It is the viruses that kill us not the lions.

You make a good point. Im just attempting to highlight the fact that as a trend, women are becoming physically a bit more masculine. Did you see the three photos I linked of “old-time” movie stars from the 1940’s?

Those weren’t the most delicate stars of their day, just three random pretty movie stars. They’d be the most gentle creatures in Hollywood today by a long shot. I think most men would be more primally moved by them than any starlet of our time -IN PERSON- if they got to meet them for very subliminal back-of-the-brain-stem reasons. Whiskey has highlighted how gay men and feminist women have influenced Hollywod to promote masculinized transexual-looking women. You made mention of a similar phenomenon of older feminists wanting men to be interested in older, more masculine women. I just dont think men can suppress their natural urges for the most feminine, delicate, young women available.

Porn has had a subtle effect on people of both sexes in differing ways. I think porn has probably made stripping a much harder profession for women to be in because men can view nude women anytime they want on their computers. I think porn’s greatest effect on women economically might be how many women who would have been strippers have been forced into professional prostitution by it. Advocatus Diaboli’s posts on the subject got me looking around online one night a few months back. Even my jaded eyes were suprised at just how many internet prostitutes could be found of surpisingly high quality in our larger cities. Pages and pages of them. Im inclined to believe these gals would have been strippers in the 80’s and early 90’s, but there they are…….at 300 to 800 an hour, in Chicago, NYC, LA and smaller towns across the plain.

A woman now born with a especially delicate face, if she played her cards right, could really have the run of the field out there because she’d stick out like a dog’s balls against the psuedo-trannies she’d be competing against. She could marry the handsome doctor, accountant, or lawyer by using old fashioned feminine wiles and charms. Women should never forget to be “soft”. That works like catnip on men, and they (men) will never be able to help it.

more butthex, big chick jaws, and beta male anal raping in divorce court. more depopulation lzozlzl more tiger woods trumping the athletic ideal and doing it inb the butt. more tucker maxes being lauded and having their lies about their heiaght repeeated in the pages of weekly standard by charlotte allen who forget to mention that tucker max filmed anal sex with a girl without her consent, and laud tucker max and give him space in teh pages of the weekly stanhdard while ignoring true amerian heroes dying in their foreign wars on foreign shores. lzozlzlzll meet the manly neocon ladies!!

That’s too funny. These girls are being placed on an incredibly high pedestal. It makes me wonder if there is any girl out there who is truly “hot.” Those girls all look like they have a promising future in the boxing ring.

Abelard, most people are older than they were in the 80’s. You were also younger then, and weren’t having your entertainment field of vision bombarded by elderly women trying to pass themselves off as “hot”. So your eyes probably glazed over anybody over 30ish.

(Eye bleed warning!)

Now you notice the bodies of women my age because damnit, we (as a group, not me specifically) demand to be noticed for our bodies and not our character anymore. You’re supposed to want to shag me.

Well don’t you???

Don’t you want some of this hot, rippled ass?

Well if you don’t then you are oppressing me with your unrealistic expectations.

I don’t want you to forgive my flaws. I want you to pretend that I don’t have any.

(End eye bleed warning.)

Okay, back to reality. There is no obesity epidemic. There is an old folks and not starving to death epidemic and to some degree, an endocrine disease epidemic. Most women of nubile age are not overweight unless you, like the CDC, lump women over 30 in with 20 year olds.

That’s just something fad diet promoters say to sell you packets of powder, and old fat people say to make themselves feel better.

My dad graduated high school at about 90-95 lbs. My brother graduated high school at about 150 lbs. That is a substantial weight gain between 1967 and 1994, but it doesn’t make my brother overweight or mean that my family has an obesity problem. It just means my dad made more money than his dad, so my brother got to be bigger and taller than him.

Yes, people are fatter than they used to be on average, but not many more women are actually fat under 30. The same girls who are fat now, would have been fat in the 70’s or 80’s, and even according to the CDC, with the munged statistics, there hasn’t been a substantial rise in women between the ages of 20-39 since the 80’s.

I read some bullshit on askmen one time – it was this ranking of women that were the female equivalents of the ‘man crush’. female boners or something. jolie made the top spot. but that says something don’t it.

Z, men like what men like, and will generally shag who they’re going to shag. The question is whether or not men will bend to the pressure of fashion and social constraints on what kind of affection is considered appropriate.

They will. First, they had to be convinced that protective feelings for a woman they care for were wrong, and then it was easy to sell them women who don’t elicit those feelings.

As far the “I’ll do my part by banging only flaky, neurotic waifs who don’t have an ambitious delicate bone in their bodies” I am with you on that one. I will commit to do my part as well.

Most women, as well as men, are fat today. Look around you. You see about 50-75% fatties these days. Some of them are quite disgusting. Then you have all these hyper-masculinized trannies wandering around. I find Angelina Jolie too butch for my tastes. It is hard to find a truly delicate, feminine woman these days, but as someone mentioned above, that makes them all the more valuable and desired. Women should take note of this, because it is what men truly want. I like a woman who is in shape, but not overly butch or masculine about it. And yes, I think part of this masculinized trend in fashion and looks is due to the influence of gay men projecting their erotic desires for young men onto the way women look. Many of these models look like fifteen year old boys in their facial and body features.

Like H, I like feminine women. If you look at women in primitive societies, they are usually quite hideous. I would never fuck an Aboriginal from Australia if you paid me. Why the women are like this, I do not know, but I am sure it has something to do with the hard life as well as the toughest males producing the toughest children to survive that life.

Mike raises an interesting point with the HGH hypothesis. However, I am going to say that it is probably plastic surgery, believe it or not.

These people are having themselves altered to look good on camera, and having a strong jawline may work better for video. Obviously, it has its flaws when it comes to stills, but keep in mind that caricature and reality are converging in cinema.

Whatever the case, I’d bet that Chateau’s post here will have an effect, and the plastic surgeon who gave these women manjaws will see his business fall as a direct result of this post.

The term “lantern jaw” is entirely appropriate here. It’s a flaw that one sees in a lot of Irish women, which diminishes their relative attractiveness, especially when the skin tightens and exposes the angles of the bones. The problem is that they don’t have the cheekbones and skull volume to match up to the wide jaw. I count myself lucky, because although I have a pretty massive jaw, I also have high, wide cheekbones and a very large cranium to accommodate the lower mandible. If you have a relatively small cranium, as most actresses do, the big jaw stands out a lot.

So I’m going to give Chateau props here for pointing out a creeping problem that has overtaken the entertainment industry. It may be that gay males have imposed their own ideas of what is attractive, i.e. the manjaw, upon the female actresses that rely on them for fashion tips.

It’s a mistake that will unfortunately lower their value prematurely, but so it goes. Women are cursed with the short, hot flame that burns twice as hot for half as long, while men smolder for decades.

this was actually one of the only places i diverged from here and found it hard to understand his position. i used to think his taste was for sterile steroidermodels who come across like sex to them is an alien ritual involving suction pods and surgical tools, but again, deep in our hearts… pixiettes with a real command of the coy and sincere…

for me, the main reason manjaws are such instant dick-shrivellers is that you just know from one look they’re gonna be a mt. olympus in terms of challenge and a widowed mormon with aspergers in terms of having a sense of humor.

Susan, now 27, says she loves her husband and does not plan to leave him. More than that, she’s convinced Ashley Madison has helped her marriage: she’s made many friends who understand her, both male and female, and she’s now had four very satisfying affairs.

“I come home smiling after and I’m just fulfilled, which kind of cuts up my resentment toward my husband, because I just feel better — physically, emotionally, everything.”

All Ainu. It turns out they’re kind of a mutt ethnic group–4 different mitochondrial DNA lineages that make them part, oh, Turk, Japanese, Southwest Asian, European, Indian and they even share mtDNA with some native Americans. They also have a completely unique language unrelated to anything else in the world. I have no idea how this massive ethnic clusterfuck happened in Hokkaido 15,000 years ago.

I work in medicine and consider other’s mandibles with thoughts of intubating them should they become a patient with siesures/coma/trauma. Outside Hollywood, the world is full of many many many men and women with small mandibles who would be difficult to intubate. The sketched woman that I linked to above, would be a nightmare to intubate. My eye prefers substantive mandibles. Aesthetically, at age 50+, men and women with larger mandibles get less swallowed up by redundant neck skin. They maintain their neck profiles longer.

Abelard Lindsey,
I agree with you. I have been noticing so many overweight women lately and I personally could never find them attractive. I also think carrying all that extra weight around makes them very irritable. I have no problem with athletic women and I personally enjoy playing sports myself. I just know a few women that almost seemed obsessed with exercise(most are not) and can’t skip a day at the gym. I don’t think a woman who works out hours a day looks that much better in general then someone who eats healthy and exercises moderately. I have trouble sticking to any exercise program so maybe I’m just making excuses.
I think all this obsessing with masculine looking women is a little ridiculous. Sorry we can’t all be perfect 10’s.

From the Toronto Star article regarding infidelity by recently married women:

“I just think that women are stronger and coming into themselves and following their own path,” says Toronto relationship therapist Nancy Ross. She says infidelity is often what brings couples to seek therapy and that, increasingly, men are initiating therapy.”

Wow.

So in other words, when women cheat it shows their strength and grrrl power ability to “follow their own path.” And, it’s a good thing because it brings the couples into “therapy.”

“On my occasional forays into the ghetto, I recurrently note just how beastly the local girls look. Huge jaws and brows that could sprout Wolverine claws when roused to anger. Maybe this is the end result of a mating market where generations of women have spread for the most violent, thuggish men in the hood.”

Female celebrities definitely take HGH to restore “youthful” skin tone and muscle tone. HGH does in fact lead to jaws growing… I’m not surprised that people like Madonna rub “testosterone” jells on their crinkly hands, so they can stretch their looks. Too bad women who take steroids will suffer from enlargement of the vocal chords that leads to deeper voice, hair growth and enlarged clitoris.

I have also read the study that mentions that high testosterone will seek out feminine or girls with higher levels of estrogen. No shit that your genes will seek what is most fit for your future self. There is a reason why football players usually bang cheerleaders…

Dude, I just got done telling you that they’re lumping in 20-39 year olds together as “young women” and saying that “young women” aren’t more obese than they were in the 80’s.

Oh, but there’s an epidemic, and so many more fat chicks around because wusses wanking to anime want it to be so, so they can feel okay with sitting on their asses and not learning game, or fearing commitment rather than just eschewing being a pawn of the divorce machine.

You’re lazy or flaky because girls are fat. Is that how it goes?

“Look at the fucking animated graphic.”

If there’s an animated graphic, the moral panic du jour must be justified.

Laura, as an individual, nothing would please me more than if the collective dick of all mankind rose and fell according to my whims.

I am a freak whose physical fitness goal is to be a kind of softer Monica Martin. I like my biceps. I like my calves. I feel sexy when I’m sweating. I do.

…but all humanity will end the day a woman like me becomes the overall feminine ideal.

A fetish or the opposite of the natural standard, rather than an ideal based on the natural standard, should not be the standard others are measured against.

My thing is a look thing and an individual overcoming personal obstacles thing, not a thing that should be representative of womankind.

Yeah, I know it’s strange to see a woman promoting something that would leave her out of the loop, but I recognize the difference between my needs and society’s needs. Truthfully, even my needs are best met in a stable society that progresses to make strong citizens who can fight for my right to be me.

Those are all Hollywood actresses and Hollywood is run by gay guys and manginas, so is it any surprise the actresses listed as ‘hot’ by their standards are manfaced. Also, add Sigourney Weaver to that list.

@ Laura: Audrey Hepburn was a pixie who retained her pixie looks well beyond her youth

@ HeMan3: Karen Gillan is hot, bring on the next Dr Who season.

@ Nicole: Oprah is famous because women love her and made her rich, not men. Also, men aren’t women – just because everyone else likes a woman doesn’t raise her value in our eyes. No matter how many manginas rub one out to Jolie won’t make other guys change their opinion of her manjaw.
And I’d rather be a freak than a sheeple in this society worshipping manly women and begging for the scraps of attention from spoiled bitches – which is what our society promotes.

@ Lilgirl: Isn’t it more likely that people on the street would be lying rather than anonymous people on the internet. If you ask some insecure guy (and most seem to be insecure these days) whether Jolie is hot they’ll say yes ought of fear of being considered gay even if she can’t give them a boner.

@ Abelard Lindsey: Obesity is caused by a heavily grain based diet. And no matter how hard the propagandists try men aren’t finding fat women hot, but somewhere along the way the masculine woman has been slipped under the definition of hot and there is no known cure for manjawitis unlike obesity.

@ Woland: Do you have any actual evidence (i.e citations) for the myth that High Testosterone lowers immune system?

I was born on Bloomsday, for what it’s worth. You know JJ owed his success to Ezra Pound, and then he sold him out. It’s hard for me to overlook that.

As for my visits to the motherland, I first went to Kerry to honor my paternal grandfather. It was worth it. Beautiful place, and I met some distant cousins there. It was so strange to visit the local pubs and look into the eyes I knew so well separated by a century. Very powerful stuff. They even spoke the Gaelic my grandpa would use to curse after taking his whiskey.

However, I have family from the north, too. I have to admit, I always did have a thing for those pistol-packing provo girls in Belfast, even if my ancestors from up there were orange prods.

Breeze, what I’m saying is that mangina is the norm these days. It kind of always has been in a philosophical sense, but now it’s more literal.

Humans are vulnerable to whatever their culture deems ideal, even when it is harmful. There are many examples of harmful trends that are blamed on the “patriarchy” but for which women either deserve to share in, or take the full blame. Men however, shoulder the same level of blame for helping to enforce these that a soldier does, who follows an order that is stupid and destructive, and could bring shame to his unit.

I’m glad you’re okay with going against the tide. I just want you and everyone else who does, to understand that it is a long, bloody battle you’re signing up for.

You know JJ owed his success to Ezra Pound, and then he sold him out. It’s hard for me to overlook that

I can see that. Geniuses are often not the best of friends to have. It happened with Fitzgerald and Hemmingway too. Also, often people don’t appreciate others who do something for them (this can apply in friendship as well as in love)

As for my visits to the motherland, I first went to Kerry to honor my paternal grandfather. It was worth it. Beautiful place, and I met some distant cousins there. It was so strange to visit the local pubs and look into the eyes I knew so well separated by a century.

Yes, Gregory Peck (who also had relatives from Kerry) expressed himself in similar terms, only he claimed to have seen his lookalikes at mass rather than in the pub.

Very powerful stuff. They even spoke the Gaelic my grandpa would use to curse after taking his whiskey

That surprises me, I didn’t think there were too many native speakers in Kerry anymore, but perhaps they camp it up for the tourists.

However, I have family from the north, too. I have to admit, I always did have a thing for those pistol-packing provo girls in Belfast, even if my ancestors from up there were orange prods

Belfast is north-east. My folks would be from much further west, clinging on to the Atlantic coastline in two obscure counties really You are Scots-Irish then? As well as Gaelic Irish Kerry blood? There is really very little difference as we native Irish colonised Scotland long before our Scots descendants came back over to visit us at King James’ invitation. Needless to say there is no feud like a family feud.

So, our flighty colleen, do you work with words?

In a way. Doesn’t everyone? Could any of us do our jobs if we couldn’t speak, read or write? What about you?

There are actually very few lantern jawed women in Ireland (though as ever, there are some in every race, particularly in small isolated villages in the south west, due to inbreeding, possibly with sheep)

and

in fact it has been documented that sexual dimorphism among the Irish is quite high, therefore lantern jaws among the men does not necessarily equate to such among the women. It is true that Irish men are quite masculine looking this does not mean the same is inherently true of Irish women, although a layer of fat can masculinise any woman, an inevitable consequences of a junk food & beer diet.

That study doesn’t say shit. All it says is that there is a possiblity that testosterone may indirectly affect the immune system. And without seeing the actual method and results I’ll take it with a grain of salt

Not to be rude, but this post is pure nonsense and of all personal and subjective analysis. Which of course you’re entitled to given it being your blog and all.

The bone structure of woman (and men) has not much changed in the last 400 years give or take. There has always been angular features that have been held in high regard along side fuller, fleshy faces. You now have people trying to birth conspiracy theories to explain bone structure.

There are many art periods in which an angular face of a woman was considered the highest mark of beauty. To each man his own but it is somewhat irresponsible to imply that there isn’t room for all tastes, but again, it s your blog. I personally don’t like thin, light hair on guys and I wouldn’t collect a tiny amount of pictures showing my own personal preferences and try to ignite a theory that men are evolving away from full, thick hair. Just saying.

Picasso, Matisse, Gauguin, George Braque, Cezanne, Juan Gris, Robert Delaney, Fernand Leger, Albert Gleizes, Francis Picabia, Marcel Duchamp and Roger de la Fresnage, and countless other artists admired and made millions off of painting the angles of the female face.

Taste is taste and that is all. Art movements and the ideal of what beauty is changes with the ebb and flow of the decades. The women you have pictures of are all beautiful women in their own right, and if you label them as unattractive it is for your own blurred preferences that makes them so, not any objective measure that does.

Also, a popular gal in these parts, Katy Perry, has quite a pointy and jutting chin, so even your own tastes are inconsistent and based in mood.

Another case of projection. Whilst women will all go loony-tunes over the latest fashionable male star, this is not true for men and the latest fashionable female star.

Just because a woman is famous doesn’t mean that men think she is gorgeous, want to shag her, or want to marry her.

It is quite amusing when a woman tells me, usually forcible and angrily that such and such a feel star really is gorgeous. I mean, as if she’d know! And why is she taking it personally?

Examples include, Kate Moss, (does absolutely nothing for me, probably because she looks like a prepubescent boy), Kate Winslet (a heifer), Madonna (even when she was young she was trying too heard to be a ghetto ho), Brooke Shields (boy). The list is huge, or at least would be if I turned my mind to it, but I have better things to do then try to think of icky ‘celebrity’ women.

All this criticism of Angelina Jolie and Elin Woods ignores the fact that they both have children with top alphas. So what if they’re not world class beauties, they both have a pretty nice life. How long can a woman’s beauty really hold a man anyway?

That study doesn’t say shit. All it says is that there is a possiblity that testosterone may indirectly affect the immune system. And without seeing the actual method and results I’ll take it with a grain of salt

Even though I think I’m on the same side of this as Breeze is, I read the study differently.

Namely, that T is a crucial part of the immune system. If you remove it, all the other components have to amp up their role because they’re then having to carry more weight. That’s how I interpreted that short report on the research, which after all was on mice, not men. Because of our much longer lifespans compared to mice, our immune systems are more complex.

Of course there’s a natural limit, as higher than normal T levels are also associated with weaker immune systems — perhaps because if some other element of the system falls down, the body tries to compensate by upping the amount of T to make up for that (-just taking a flying stab at it).

@xsplat Oh… ;-) hehe. I have heard that happen to friends. I wonder if it is just temporary swelling of b00b tissue though (I hope it isn’t but)… I think the Brava (mybrava.com) system is supposed to encourage actual tissue expansion but it’s too cumbersome.

So no one seems to think girls are hairier nowadays. Manjaws can’t be looked at in isolation. I bet if everyone talked to their grandmas about their youth, they would find those women just didn’t have that many problems usually (unless a high libido aka testosterone Marilyn Monroe type).

As for the lower body fat theories, and how the chiseled look makes a woman look more masculine…

Thing is, being teeny tiny makes a girl look more feminine. The way to get petite is by losing weight, no?

So where’s the balance between femmy soft roundness and femmy petiteness? Is it really a choice between your face or your @$$?

Fitness pros criticize the skinny fat look of Lindsay Lohan and Nicole Ritchie all the time, but I actually think they look good and wouldn’t mind being a bit less toned to keep some softness.

By the way Jayne Kennedy is beautiful but I also noticed the big jaw too. Sad she got so fat later…

It seems like women with more estrogen in their system have a tendency to get endometriosis later. Jayne Kennedy did, I’ve heard of others… I can’t recall where I read the study about this link (not sure if causation or correlation). If you look at very girly looking women, in face or body, it seems like endometriosis is a side effect or something… Some of them also have thinning hair later in life too.

One issue which hasn’t been brought up yet is how much of our Hollywood production is exported to all places on the globe (movies especially).

Perhaps it’s vital to the mission of those at Propaganda Central to have the rest of the world see all these strong, manly, kick-ass women, because the viewers must then subliminally think what godlike Manly Men these women must belong to. And then they’re way more reluctant to consider even messing with us. I’m thinking of the masses, not those in high places who likely know the real score. Somebody else can easily translate this concept into the local vernacular of game-eese, as I’m not particularly fluent in it.

It’s only because we live here that we know what a totally dysfunctional mess this place is, but like a screwed up family it’s important to present just the right face to the neighbors. I certainly remember where I was the day celebrity culture declared Jolie to be the world’s most beautiful woman, even though I’d barely heard of her, and couldn’t recall having gotten to vote for (or against) her as just the most beautiful women in America.

Says life. I’ve known many round-faced women who are tyrants and quite masculine both in their thinking and their manner. The topic itself is quite subjective so it is hard to argue with firm boundaries for either side, yes?

the realist-

dude, what’s your problem? We are talking of other women. What I find beautiful in woman is not any of my own features as I have sated before on other sites. Would it be possible for you to just leave me the fuck alone? I do not address you ever and I was undeserving of your cruelty and yet you continue to attack me. It takes guts to post pictures of myself in this sphere, and 90% of the women here don’t post pictures of themselves for the very reason of being picked on. You have succeeded in hurting my feelings and embarrassing me, you have won. I am ugly, I get it, please stop.

LSB, in my opinion, people should focus on fitness, whichever flavor suits them. Nobody should be pursuing an externally generated physical ideal outside of grooming and ornamentation.

Nature takes care of itself just fine.

The problem is that when you’re talking about cultural representations of the ideal, it’s not the women’s looks that are the problem, it’s what they represent.

Back in the day, a considerable amount of time and money was spent scouting women who were both slender and feminine. They wanted women on the screen who men would instinctively feel aroused and warm fuzzies for at the same time. On the side, there were the tough chicks with moxy. There was room for everything in context.

In real life, it often is a choice between your face or your ass. Better yet, in real life, a functioning mother or nurturing type has more things on her mind than maintaining some wacked out 13% bodyfat. They’re too busy having a life. So usually, it balances out.

Most guys are okay with real life if they’re allowed to be. I’d say though that a slender feminine woman is closer to most women’s reality at least at some point during her life, than a super lean Amazon with visible facial ligaments.

Nicole, you overlooked the basic mathematical point even though you reproduced the numbers.

The issue is the change between 1997 and 2007. The key number is the 31.7% of 18-29 year olds graded obese in 2007.

Even though the 1997-1998 numbers are for different age groupings, the 1997-98 numbers of 12.5% for 18-24 and 19% for 25-44 imply that 18-29 year olds in 1997-98 probably had an obesity rate between12.5% and 19%.

So there was a jump for that age group from something less than 19% to 31.7%. That’s quite notable in only a decade.

Wow, come to think of it, most of us actually were that slender, feminine ideal at around 15-18.

Young women that age are off limits now though. So I stand by my assertion that men are being herded towards older, more masculine women. The ideal used to be totally reachable, and almost everyone passed through a phase of looking kind of like the starlets of old.

Guys aren’t allowed to like nubile looking women anymore though. It doesn’t stop them from liking that or the mature ones who don’t mind an older lady from liking women who maintain their freshness later in life. They just aren’t explicitly allowed to anymore.

Polymath, I stand corrected then. I can’t confirm whether or not this is how it looks at ground level because I haven’t been in the U.S. for more than a month at a stretch since 1998.

Maybe you guys are being rapidly stampeded. I’m sorry.

It’s just hard to believe that young women are getting fatter with so much dieting and surgery going on. If it is so, I wonder how much the economic situation has to do with it.

I still suspect that the current moral panic about obesity, combined with national healthcare, is building up to Christmas for pharmaceutical companies and surgeons like it is here. They are making a killing on weight loss drugs, lap band surgery, and gastric bypass for people who are barely edging overweight.

If that happens in the U.S. you’ll have mostly skinny girls with big boobs like here, but they will poop themselves if they eat an egg.

Anoukange,
I looked at your pictures and you’re pretty. If these guys find Angelina Jolie unattractive, I can’t imagine what they would think of me. Most men in real life do not seem all that picky about facial beauty contrary to what the ones on here are saying.

[editor: correction: “most men in real life lack the high value to afford being picky about a woman’s facial beauty.”]

Most want slender women because being overweight signals undesirable habits such as laziness and overeating. I can understand that. I don’t have a beautiful face and I’ve never had problems getting dates, so I would take much of what is said on here with a grain of salt.
Nicole,
If you’re really into fitness and lifting weights I think that’s great. I don’t see why a woman can’t be both athletic and feminine. I admire women who are in great shape.

I can see that. Geniuses are often not the best of friends to have. It happened with Fitzgerald and Hemmingway too. Also, often people don’t appreciate others who do something for them (this can apply in friendship as well as in love)

But Joyce took it a step further than Hemingway, who was just an irascible loudmouth concerning any and everyone.

Yes, Gregory Peck (who also had relatives from Kerry) expressed himself in similar terms, only he claimed to have seen his lookalikes at mass rather than in the pub.

I did go to St. Mary’s in Dingle, but I didn’t attend mass. The most striking resemblance I saw was in a rather masculine young woman in a pub in downtown Dingle. She looked like a cross between me and my sister. I did notice that a lot of the women down there were a bit mannish. They were tall, broad, and had angular features. Lots of blondes, too. Reminded me of the typical American pioneer women you might see in those 19th century photos.

That surprises me, I didn’t think there were too many native speakers in Kerry anymore, but perhaps they camp it up for the tourists.

In my experience it was the opposite. They wouldn’t speak any around me, but the proprietress of the B&B would have friends over at the end of the day and they’d speak Gaelic to each other indoors. I think it’s just the strip along the coast there where they still speak Irish — I didn’t spend much time in Killarney.

Belfast is north-east. My folks would be from much further west, clinging on to the Atlantic coastline in two obscure counties really You are Scots-Irish then? As well as Gaelic Irish Kerry blood? There is really very little difference as we native Irish colonised Scotland long before our Scots descendants came back over to visit us at King James’ invitation. Needless to say there is no feud like a family feud.

I know Belfast is NE, but it’s still pretty close to the NW. I imagine the dialect might be similar. And yes, from my mother’s side I’ve got a heavy dose of Scots-Irish. But I’ve also got Welsh on both sides, and had a Norwegian grandma (from Trondelag). I call myself a European/North Atlantic Islander (as opposed to Asian/Pacific Islander).

Funny thing about the feud is that it doesn’t matter so much here in the states. I have also noticed that a lot of my Irish friends are Anglophiles, but they still look down on the northerners, one saying “they’re just like Americans.” I thought that was funny, and kind of true. Makes sense, given how many Scots-Irish flooded the colonies in the 18th century. The people who self-identify as ethnic “Americans,” mostly concentrated along the Mason Dixon line, are of Scots-Irish extraction.

In a way. Doesn’t everyone?

In a manner of speaking…

Could any of us do our jobs if we couldn’t speak, read or write?

Maybe a few. I’ve seen some day laborers who are deaf, dumb and mute for all intents and purposes.

Laura, taking it with a grain of salt is the right attitude. First of all, because in the case of this post, they’re talking about Hollywood celebrities that are being sold and nearly imposed on them as representations of ideal physical beauty.

I like cake. Cake is a nice thing to have occasionally. If however, someone tried to sell me cake as a superfood and derided me for eating anything other than cake, I would be pissed off. So you’re seeing the pissed off reactions of guys who are having cake shoved down their throats as if it was cabbage.

They’re also commenting on the natural results of a cake exclusive diet: weakness/manginaness.

This doesn’t have a whole heck of a lot to do with their selection in real life because most women of marrying age are past their close-to-natural ideal phase, and most of them have also stated quite clearly in the past that they don’t have to have an extreme beauty.

Most women have some level of beauty, but many destroy it in pursut of non ideal ideals, or refusing to age gracefully, or behave gracefully or decently.

The only conclusion is that the industry is designed to appeal to women, not men. I can see two reasons for this:

1) The ideal that models must be anorexic six-footers creates artificial scarcity. The idea that beauty is very exclusive is appealing to women, compared to the reality that beauty is actually quite abundant among young women (say, ages 17–21). In other words, women want to believe that their sexual competition remains minimal as they age.

2) The ideal that models must have mannish, mature faces is appealing to women, compared to the reality that men actually desire nubile features (again, say, ages 17–21). Again, the image of the looming out-competition is unbearable to aging women.

In short, the model industry sells cognitive dissonance to women; an escape from the ugly truths of the sexual market.

I think the word we are looking for here is Patrician. It seems those delicately boned attractive patrician females (and males to a certain degree. Think Montgomery Clift) have been and are continuing to be bred out. I always found the heavy jaws on woman to be kind of creepy. They look very much like some kind of Germanic doll. Like something out of one of those Christmas stop motion specials from the early 70s. You also forgot the whole pointy chin thing too. You could chop wood with Reese Witherspoons chin along with J. Love Hewitt (nice body though in younger days) and dont get me started with that hag Sarah Jessica Parker. Ugh. Where is my sick bag.

But Joyce took it a step further than Hemingway, who was just an irascible loudmouth concerning any and everyone.

You give me an example re Joyce & Pound, I’ll cap it with an example of Hemmingway & Fitzgerald. And Hemmingway deliberately cultivated the image of a loudmouth not just to pull women but because it allowed him to get away with being covertly malicious without people realising.

Reminded me of the typical American pioneer women you might see in those 19th century photos

I’ve never been to Kerry myself, believe it or not, so I can’t really dispute this. Kerry is a *ahem* unusual place, the ordinary rules do not necessarily always apply. And yes, any Kerrywoman I’ve ever met has been a tough cookie.

the proprietress of the B&B would have friends over at the end of the day and they’d speak Gaelic to each other indoors

The main use of knowing Irish from my point of view is being able to speak it round foreigners so that they don’t understand what you are saying. Very useful wherever one wants to avoid being taken for English (or American, though this has never happened to SDaedalus, possibly because she doesn’t wear sports shoes when walking round cities on holiday as a general rule)

The SDaedalus form of Irish is somewhat polyglot though, learnt during summer college where one was sent home if one spoke an entire sentence in English; of course it was easy to get round this by inserting one or two Irish words into each sentence. Generally speaking this dialect can only be understood by someone else who had the Gaeltacht summer school experience, fortunately there are a lot of us out there.

I know Belfast is NE, but it’s still pretty close to the NW. I imagine the dialect might be similar. And yes, from my mother’s side I’ve got a heavy dose of Scots-Irish. But I’ve also got Welsh on both sides, and had a Norwegian grandma (from Trondelag). I call myself a European/North Atlantic Islander (as opposed to Asian/Pacific Islander)

That is very interesting. You are definitely from seafaring stock I would say. Norway, Scotland and the North of Ireland are all similar, the people there are all straight out of an Ibsen play (depressive). In Kerry they are more manic (SDaedalus can only take Kerry people in small doses) What do you think you got from the Welsh bit?

The people who self-identify as ethnic “Americans,” mostly concentrated along the Mason Dixon line, are of Scots-Irish extraction.

SDaedalus wonders whether or not the Scots Irish could actually have contributed more to the development of America the world superpower than any other ethnic group. Obviously as a non-American she is not in a position to comment but would be interested to hear views.

My advice is to HELP your “beta” pals get it on with some women! They will produce more feminine girls and by the time theyre eady to have sex,I will have read a bunch of books on scoring with much younger women–and we all win!!

That is very interesting. You are definitely from seafaring stock I would say. Norway, Scotland and the North of Ireland are all similar, the people there are all straight out of an Ibsen play (depressive). In Kerry they are more manic (SDaedalus can only take Kerry people in small doses) What do you think you got from the Welsh bit?

No doubt I’m descended from seafaring people. I can’t think of one single farmer in my family going back some 200 years, but can name several fishermen and whalers. There must have been a few farmers, but I don’t know who they were, and that’s pretty rare I imagine.

Good question about what I got from the Welsh. Probably some kind of aristocratic sensibility, as they were southern patrician types prior to the Civil War, like Thomas Jefferson, who was also Welsh. Ironic that Jefferson became such a radical democrat, considering his origins.

SDaedalus wonders whether or not the Scots Irish could actually have contributed more to the development of America the world superpower than any other ethnic group. Obviously as a non-American she is not in a position to comment but would be interested to hear views.

Most definitely. Ever heard of Andrew Jackson? The most aggressively expansionist Americans in the 18th and early 19th century were Scots Irish. They started fighting the Indians, moved on to the Mexicans, and got the ball rolling for manifest destiny.

However, concerning Manifest Destiny, the guy who coined the phrase, John O’Sullivan, had an Irish daddy, so the other Irish were in on it as well. Some Irishmen – veterans of the Civil War – also tried to conquer Canada in the 1860s. They came close to pulling it off.

America is more Celtic than even the names indicate. During the initial settlement, very few English or continental women deigned to go live in the colonies, so most men – including the English and Dutch – took Irish or Scottish wives. Irish and Scottish women in Colonial America therefore served the same role for the male colonists that Indian women did for Spanish men in Mexico.

Not a bad deal, I suppose — some of those Celtic women made pretty good workhorses, and they even scared the Indians off on occasion.

BTW, speaking of Scots Irish, did you know that the term “cracker” comes from “craic?” Or that “hillbilly” comes from supporters of William of Orange back in Ulster? “Jock” and “redneck” have Scottish origins. Funny how many of the terms for rural/white Americans originated in Ireland and Scotland.

I have to admit that I felt pretty much at home in Ireland. More so than in Britain. As someone from (Donegal?), you’d probably feel little in the way of culture shock in the states yourself.

One fascinating side note which came out of the Jefferson/Hemings YDNA testing was that Jefferson’s YNDA was akin to Middle Eastern rather than typically Welsh. I think there has been a lot of racial mixing in Wales for a long time (seaports?) Look at Tom Jones, the most African Welshman ever.

How did your ancestors fare after the Civil War? Did they decline into faded gentility, like Ashley Wilkes, or prosper a la Scarlett O’Hara?

Yes I have heard of craic, hilbilly, redneck, Jock and the Fenian invasion of uslter but not Manifest Destiny. I think Davy Crockett or some other Alamo veterans may have been Scots Irish.

The Scots Irish are definitely underrated, if America had been left to the WASPs would it have become as powerful? Or are Scots Irish a sub-clade of WASPs anyway. I think not, but may be wrong

Although SDaedalus is a nice Dublin girl there is indeed a Donegal component in her genetic makeup.

‘Sup, I’m here to drop some science on you. Parabens are, in fact, some of the “stuff put into cosmetics”, but the concern about them is that they mimic estrogens in the body, rather than testosterone.

Re: manjaw it seems most likely to be the fault of all the excessive plastic surgery. Just my opinion.

One fascinating side note which came out of the Jefferson/Hemings YDNA testing was that Jefferson’s YNDA was akin to Middle Eastern rather than typically Welsh. I think there has been a lot of racial mixing in Wales for a long time (seaports?) Look at Tom Jones, the most African Welshman ever.

I wouldn’t put much stock into any of these modern Jefferson DNA studies. If they can get their hands on his bones, then I might pay some attention, but until then it’s all speculation. I think I recall some guy claiming Jefferson was a Sephardic Jew. Poor fella must’ve had a few marbles loose to come up with that one.

How did your ancestors fare after the Civil War? Did they decline into faded gentility, like Ashley Wilkes, or prosper a la Scarlett O’Hara?

Like Mark Twain, they went West. In fact, they ended up in the same exact town – Virginia City Nevada – which also happened to be chock full of Irish at the time (the local church was a “St. Patrick’s”), hence my Kerry ancestry.

Yes I have heard of craic, hilbilly, redneck, Jock and the Fenian invasion of uslter but not Manifest Destiny. I think Davy Crockett or some other Alamo veterans may have been Scots Irish.

Yeah, I think Davy Crockett, but these guys were legion. They spread out all the way from Florida to Oregon territory.

The Scots Irish are definitely underrated, if America had been left to the WASPs would it have become as powerful? Or are Scots Irish a sub-clade of WASPs anyway. I think not, but may be wrong.

Well, it’s a good question. If you ask me, the only true “WASPs” are the New England yankees, and possibly Mormons (who came from New England originally), but the term generally refers to people of a certain socioeconomic rather than ethnic class. My mother’s mother was of pure Scots Irish descent (she’s actually the most Irish of my grandparents), but her family became quite wealthy and then went to the Episcopalian church, where they took on all the characteristics that people would refer to as “WASP,” including that upper-class New York drawl.

So perhaps WASP isn’t really an ethnic group so much as a class.

Although SDaedalus is a nice Dublin girl there is indeed a Donegal component in her genetic makeup.

Believe it or not I have never been to the States.

I have a Dubliner friend here. He went to Clongowes Wood, just like Joyce. He likes the Pac. NW quite a bit, and just moved down to Portland (from Seattle). I grew up around a fair number of Irish natives, too. My old neighborhood was mostly Irish until the 80s, and San Francisco, where my folks live, still has a fairly large Irish contingent.

It’s worth a visit if you have the time. There are things you’ll see here that you’d never experience in Ireland, and you wouldn’t have much problem at all getting along with people. I’d recommend the West coast if you like natural beauty, but the East Coast if you prefer cultural attractions (although San Francisco is pretty good in that regard as well).

I’m sure there are plenty on both sides, but the overall trend I’ve noticed is masculine face -> masculine personality and feminine face -> feminine personality. It has never let me down, and I’ve tried to bang a lot more girls than you have . Sure, there have been plenty that were more/less masculine than their faces suggested, but it still provides a valuable first estimate.

Even a girl with a manjaw has many feminine characteristics, she’s almost never as masculine as even a lower beta, but the masculine qualities are there. Though take the same personality and put it on a man, and he would be the flamingest fag ever.

Steve,
I reread your comment and agree with you. A woman can only do so much with the face she was born with. However, much of a woman’s femininity is her behavior. I think there used to be schools that taught these skills to upper class women because it was so important. I agree talking loudly is very unattractive. Also, there are ways to walk and sit gracefully. Honestly it doesn’t always come naturally, but much of it can be taught. I do believe the average young woman can greatly increase her attractiveness by following some simple behaviors. Honestly, a lot of women are not very aware of what traits men find attractive. It took me a while to figure it out.

Thansus, I said I was sorry already. I still think some of the feeling comes from older women being brought into your field of socially acceptably bangable vision, but I conceded that the numbers might be higher than I thought within naturally bangable range.

You have to understand that anorexia was a moral panic in the past. So was sexism, racism, and other things that when blown out of proportion, have led to legal and policy changes that have screwed the American people.

This may be the time the boy cried wolf was right, but I somehow doubt it. This whole obesity thing looks like a setup, especially when you consider that Americans have been set up to have an increase in diabetes and other insulin issues through the addition of corn syrup to everything from baby formula to cheese.

My personal weight loss issues have revolved around deprogramming my diet and activity beliefs. So I’m trying to get things into perspective.

If what you’re telling me is true, then it didn’t happen out of nowhere. To get people in a thinness obsessed culture to get fat on such a large scale, they have to be fed crap and perhaps addicted to it, without their conscious or informed consent.

All this criticism of Angelina Jolie and Elin Woods ignores the fact that they both have children with top alphas. So what if they’re not world class beauties, they both have a pretty nice life. How long can a woman’s beauty really hold a man anyway?

First off Elin Woods is fugly as hell and the only reason she gets any talk about being beautiful is because she’s White, blond and has some photoshopped pics online.

Look closely, she’s UGLY. It’s genetic, her mom is one of the ugliest women on earth.

Not sure about Mars and some of the outer planets.

Secondly, you haven’t been paying much attention to the so called “news” because Elin Woods has to be going through one of the most humiliating experiences on a global scale. Nothing all that nice about her life right now.

In the whole history of bad ideas, the idea of “fat acceptance” is among the very worst. How about we speak truthfully and call it “hypertension, diabetes, and early crippled-up immobility acceptance?” Or, does that not sound so warm & fuzzy?

Manjaw probably comes from using drugs to quickly lose weight and gain muscle, such as steroids or clenbuterol at a guess. Drugs that, ahem, also masculinize. Angelina Jolie looks like a prime user. It’s an unsettling effect when it collides with what might be custom cheekbones in Olivia Wilson above.

She sat down diagonally on the edge of the bed and, her eyes riveted to the alarm clock, waited without moving for the bell to ring. When she heard it at last and rose to leave, she noticed in the mirror above her dressing table, before turning out the light, her bold, gentle, docile expression.

When she pushed open the door of the little Italian restaurant before which the car had stopped, the first person she saw, at the bar, was René. He smiled at her tenderly, took her by the hand, and turning toward a sort of grizzled athlete, introduced her in English to Sir Stephen H.

ha, ha…thanks. I figured if I say that I’m ugly, people will just focus on the discussion at hand and not on those commenting. I would never tell someone that I found them unattractive or torment them because of my own subjective views. When the hell did it become the norm to be rude? I continued to be shocked here.

Vincent-

Fair enough, I don’t sleep with women, so yes, you would know more as far as that aspect of it goes. I am going off of what I observe around me. Some of the crudest women are very feminine looking. I have heard them belch in public, discuss bathroom behaviors, sit with legs uncrossed in dresses, not shave their underarms, chew with their mouth open, talk very loudly in public, etc. I usually stare at them wide-eyed until they notice and shoot me a look of death. I still stand by the ideal of a hybrid in a woman of both strong qualities and soft qualities. It is unrealistic to expect women to be as they were a hundred years ago. There is such a thing as someone who is too dependent and I can’t see how that would be attractive. A woman should be strong but in womanly things such as raising children, defending her home and family, maintaining loyalty, and showing fearlessness in displaying compassion. Extremes never seem to accommodate my own preferences, in either sex, in both looks and behaviors.

Rum, fat acceptance started as a backlash against the Twiggy ideal back in the late 60s and early 70s.

Today, they’re doing a heck of a lot more to fight actual obesity than to promote it. They’re the ones telling the truth about high fructose corn syrup and other nasty crap that screws up people’s weight.

The ones who use “fat acceptance” as an excuse for being lazy aren’t the core of the movement. Most of us just wish the stupid or otherwise flawed would stop picking on our flaw just because it’s currently unfashionable, and the subject of moral panic.

Nobody is trying to herd you into thinking I’m pretty, but the media is attempting to herd me into thinking I’m ugly, and that the solution to my ugliness can be purchased for $19.95 plus shipping and handling.

They want you to think that I got fat because I didn’t buy the product, so that you will socially pressure me to buy it.

You’re supposed to pick on me and shut me out of whatever you have the power to, until I take the blue pill.

“Manjaw probably comes from using drugs to quickly lose weight and gain muscle, such as steroids or clenbuterol at a guess. Drugs that, ahem, also masculinize. Angelina Jolie looks like a prime user. It’s an unsettling effect when it collides with what might be custom cheekbones in Olivia Wilson above.”

Also, if you are bulemic, the salivary glands will enlarge from all the vomiting and this will make the jaw more pronounced.

Maurice– The book to read on this subject is “Albion’s Seed”, by David Hackett Fischer.

He’s absolutely right. If you want to understand American folkways and regional differences that book is absolutely the bedrock.

I just wish the same author had followed it with something like “Seed After Albion” or something, to deal with German, Irish, Italian, Polish, Swedish and Eastern European Jewish immigrants here, and Chinese and Japanese ones as well, and the marks they’ve left on different regions. Well the Jewish story is endlessly told by them in the movies and in books and TV so that’s pretty well known. Also Cubans and long time Mexicans some whose families came with the territory conquered/won in the Mexican American war, in California and New Mexico esp. Well Texas earlier but that story is also well known.

SDaedalus wonders whether or not the Scots Irish could actually have contributed more to the development of America the world superpower than any other ethnic group. Obviously as a non-American she is not in a position to comment but would be interested to hear views.

Well there’s little doubt that they’ve formed the core backbone of our military forever, esp. our elite special forces of all kinds.

Straight up (lowland) Scots tended to be more our captains of industry, but also Germans. Calvanists of various brands esp. As in Britain and NW Europe.

Nazi scientist Josef Mengele received his PhD for a thesis entitled “Racial Morphological Research on the Lower Jaw Section of Four Racial Groups”, which suggested that a person’s race could be identified by the shape of the jaw.

girl:”As a woman I agree that women are becoming more masculine, and what a shame, too…”

Re:”women becoming more masculine” – This is a process of secular and degenerate modernity. Under hardcore Islam, Orthodox Christianity, or strict Judaism naturally ‘Dionysian’ women are kept more under control by male ‘Apollonians.’

Racder X: “Civilization breeds delicacy and refinement in both sexes.”

Which in due time leads to over-refinement, over-delicacy (no one has survival skills anymore), mass-ennui, over-luxurious living, and widespread decadence…which in turn leads to the downfall of said civilization as it is overcome by more primitive types from lower civilizations.

My point was, for every guy that doesn’t like a strong jaw line on a woman, there’s one that does. It’s just too subjective. And I’m not arguing against the general good looking standards at which to measure by, just that it varies too much in the nuances, same as it does for women. You guys here lean towards certain beliefs and/or preferences in the hopes that they result in a more feminine woman, I’m saying real life proves otherwise. Too many men go against this belief and admire the women pictured.

I’m also not arguing against stereotypes either, they often tend to prove themselves true, but it goes both ways. A woman is feminine in demeanor, in vulnerability, in softness and in showing love, warmth, and affection. This can often come from a woman with a strong jaw line. There have been major alphas (like the artists I’ve listed) that LOVED strong jaw lines. Again, proving it depends on the guy. I argue not against personal preference, but for all types to be included on the table, since taste varies so much. Some men have soft bellies, or love handles…that to me would say beta, among other things, such as lazy, but they could very well be an alpha. In fact, they could be more alpha than some of the guys who obsess and work out daily. I’m against a definitive attitude, not personal preference.

Anoukange you are entitled to your viewpoints, i’m not arguing against that. However, if you intend to use the visual arts as your reference point, do not lump an entire movement into a category for your own convenience.

I am an artist by profession (painter/illustrator/designer) and majored in fine arts and design. Care to chat re: the cubist movement? It was all about the beauty of angles, found in nature and man made. I do not reference it for my own convenience, it is a perfect example how culture and art moved to a liking of those angles and softness was disliked and de-valued as a result. Movements come and go. Guys here hate how hard women have become so the pendulum swings to softness again, but in an extreme manner, as movements tend to do. I push, again, for balance of the extremes and pulling from multiple sources and influences to create the ultimate success…..HAPPINESS. Happiness not by the definition of others (and many here care greatly for social value and do not live for themselves) but for the individual. Being alpha means to create your own path, regardless of what others say to you about your choices.

Almost every artist is an alpha, by definition. For they challenge the norms and live for themselves. It can be a difficult path indeed. But not giving a shit what others think brings what I personally value most: freedom. Freedom of thought, choice, movement, and life. And I’m talking real artists, not posers who claim they are. Artists tend to have been so their whole live, not just within a few years because it is cool.

It was about breaking down forms into basic shapes and displaying them from a range of viewpoints. Hard edges depict masculinity, flowing lines depict a more feminine quality. Speaking of which, your lines, composition and color choice are decent enough, but you could benefit from some additional value and lighting studies.

You know your stuff, how refreshing. :) From what little of my work I have up at my blog, your comments on value and light study actually do apply quite well…ha, ha. But I was hired to do what I was hired to do, and often that is stylized per request of client. So that can lead to flatness. My portfolio includes work that better represents value and light. A lot of male artists were big into Nouveau, so feminine style wasn’t exclusive to females. And masculine lines weren’t exclusive to Cubism. As it would appear you already may know. Anyway, cheers-

[…] about the role of femininity in women’s career ambitions. I have a decidedly infantile face (no man-jaws here) and a very feminine figure, as do my closest female friends and relatives, and we are all […]

Anoukange, you don’t have a clue about what you’re talking about. I would suggest reading endocrinology 101 until you get the basics before you risk embarassing yourself publically any further in this issue.

“There is no direct or even indirect correlation between a woman having an angular face, jaw or chin that implies she is of any less feminine heart than that of a “softer” facial structure.”

Actually, there is both a very clear correlation and a causal explanation: One of the most notable effects of virilization resulting from increased testosterone and growth hormone serum levels in the body is a more square, angular jawline. In fact this is one of the ways people are told to spot steroid users, changing to a square jawline in a time that is too short to be the product of a natural transformation via excircise.

Virilizing effects also include a host of other horrible effects on women like coarse and prematurely aged skin, thinner scalp hair, darker voice, more body hair, infertility, psychological problems etc., so it’s really just basic sense to steer clear of them. And of course not all women with a big jaw have them because of virilization, some just have a more powerfull jaw bone genetically – but it’s a clear indicator, especially if other signs of virilization are present as well.

“Not to be rude, but this post is pure nonsense and of all personal and subjective analysis. ”

No, it’s an elegant way of portraying a real problem suitable to understand for most people. What you’re doing is sophistry, that is pseudo-knowledge used to further your own agenda. Or you’re just ignorant.

“Also, a popular gal in these parts, Katy Perry, has quite a pointy and jutting chin, so even your own tastes are inconsistent and based in mood.”

That’s woman logic right there. It’s like saying a would be perfect ten is worthless because she has flabby boobs. Of course a woman who has a bigger than average jaw can be beautiful if it’s not monsterous and all the other things are great. Especially if the jaw is bigger due to denser bone genetics and not excesss hormones, so you won’t have all the other virilizing effects.

“The bone structure of woman (and men) has not much changed in the last 400 years give or take.”

Actually, a very big increase in average height and body size in the Western world and most other places is really well documented in this period. Those large increases are directly linked to hormone levels, and women who have higher levels and grow bigger have more masculine features as well. If you want to know what white women looked like 2-300 years ago, you should probably imagine someone with Caucasian features, but roughly asian in size and build. That includes having a significantly less protruding jawline.

And don’t link to a picture of some inbred royalty to prove how much people loved big jawed women in the old times. The painter just said he liked it so he could get laid with a thousand small-jawed girls from the money he got from painting the portrait.

I would say that I prefer women who have a more than average pronounced jaw. I guess it is because I prefer thin women (BMI 18-20). I have recently lost some weight myself and my jawline became more pronounced.

The first statement I write is that it is impossible to make a concrete connection between a woman’s facial structure and the innocence or femininity of her heart. In other words, you can never tell how a woman would be in love. That can’t be argued against due to the structure of the comment itself. That is specifically why I chose the word heart.

Square jawlines can be linked to several things including what you write about above. So, you are right, which as a man you rely heavily on, but you are only partially right. The have also been around for hundreds of years and this too, has been well documented.

On this part:

(((“Not to be rude, but this post is pure nonsense and of all personal and subjective analysis. ”

No, it’s an elegant way of portraying a real problem suitable to understand for most people. What you’re doing is sophistry, that is pseudo-knowledge used to further your own agenda. Or you’re just ignorant.”)))

–I write an opinion here, never once denying the quality of writing the author puts out consistently in my praises of him in the past. I was challenging the generalization theme being somewhat irresponsible with its being presented as fact and not opinion.

My point is that too many guys dig on angular faces and have for centuries. Also note my use of the word angular and not square jaw. I puled back some on the terms to open it up. Extreme square jaws are a different story. Your so called evidence is based in guessing mostly and is, again, one of the possible causes of angular faces. There are others. I do not believe there are more angular faces then round faces (square jaw vs. round jaw), I believe from what I have been seeing for over a decade with my own eyes, is that there are about the same number of each. Therefore, there is no “epidemic” as many claim for (ironically) their own agendas. This is about certain men pushing their own personal preferences on other men. There are too many guys out there that represent and have other preferences that differ from the opinions of this particular post. Every time someone posts a piece on beauty, there are always conflicting evaluations and banter. Its just too subjective of a topic in the nuances. Hell, even in the obvious sometimes, let alone the many nuances for people. People crave different things.

There is a reason Hollywood and millions alike, have found the women above attractive. Society has been valuing this jaw line and these angles for some time. It will swing back again and the most popular will become something else. Women in the 1950’s were considered the most beautiful if they had soft features. Anything else, even the beloved “exotic” look coveted today by beauty industry was shunned then. Ethnic/exotic is what is hot right now. Times change, and they’ll change again.

ok…what else? you said this:

(((“Also, a popular gal in these parts, Katy Perry, has quite a pointy and jutting chin, so even your own tastes are inconsistent and based in mood.”

That’s woman logic right there. It’s like saying a would be perfect ten is worthless because she has flabby boobs. Of course a woman who has a bigger than average jaw can be beautiful if it’s not monsterous and all the other things are great. Especially if the jaw is bigger due to denser bone genetics and not excesss hormones, so you won’t have all the other virilizing effects.)))

-wow. got that point wrong. I think she’s fantastic. I was saying that some opinions have been and will continue to be (out of convenient thought and memory I presume) inconsistent. The other irony to this statement is I have a chin similar to Katy’s but not a square jaw line (did as a kid, have outgrown it and have long, tiny jaw) but was told that I have a “man chin” due to its pointedness (or boney-ness) and also due to the huge ass dimple in it. Anyhow, I was not cutting on Katy Perry in any way. You actually argue my point for me but more thoroughly.

I feel it unnecessary for you to have phrased your differing opinion to mine in the way that you have. You could have said simply that you disagree with me and given me the reasons why, no? Was I attacking or aggressive in my comment? Was I insulting? Do I hate on men in any way?

It is fact in art history that the standard of beauty or what was admired and sought after has changed from soft to hard to soft to hard, etc. It is well documented so I am not bringing it into the thread riding a personal agenda. I had knowledge that I knew and it challenged this post a bit, so I offered it up. Simple as that.

I have a chin similar to Katy’s but not a square jaw line (did as a kid, have outgrown it and have long, tiny jaw) but was told that I have a “man chin” due to its pointedness (or boney-ness) and also due to the huge ass dimple in it.

lol. What do the women in these parts see when they look into the mirror?

You were told you have a man chin, because you have a man chin. Just because the chin ends narrow doesn’t mean the jaw line isn’t large and harshly angular.

Nick, my pics don’t reflect my jaw line well, given the angles at which the photos are taken. My own jaw is very narrow and small. I have a long, narrow face and hardly any jaw bones. But my jaw line is not large or harsh. I stuck up for these ladies because I could appreciate their jaw lines, but I am only in ownership of a “man chin” I suppose.

Any womanly parts on you other than your abilities for catty internet insult? Please do post pics.

Anoukange, you have to forgive some of the guys here that were raised in front of a television. They’re not used to women who care about issues that don’t apply to them personally, but are just a matter of principle.

For the record, I think this manjaw thing is stupid, particularly how widely and indiscriminately CH and most of his commenters took it.

It’s a factor in a masculine looking face, which I agree I don’t like so much esp. if the girl doesn’t want to greatly soften that given how she feels, with hair and makeup arts, etc. But really the gestalt look is the thing in whether she looks feminine or not.

This I state firmly, with certainty that my view is right, will stand the test of time, and unlike those others, upholds truth, justice, and the American way. (!)

[…] about the role of femininity in women’s career ambitions. I have a decidedly infantile face (no man-jaws here) and a very feminine figure, as do my closest female friends and relatives, and we are all […]

“The findings are important in demonstrating that perceptions of women as desirable and trustworthy long-term mates can be reliably gleaned by men from viewing only the women’s facial features.”
“Results suggest that information about women’s sexual unrestrictedness, which is related to their risk of infidelity, can potentially be conveyed by the masculinity of women’s faces.”

This post is just an opinion people, (a narrow minded one at that) it shouldn’t be looked at as fact. I don’t think you men who find these features attractive should be ashamed. They are women and God created diversity as well as the attraction for it. No one can agree on what is beautiful that’s why they say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are beautiful people in every category, shape, race etc. To sterotype and say all man jawed women are unattractive is idiotic. Just as there are men who are very attractive with feminine features there are women who are attractive with masculine features, it just depends on how it falls together and the preference of who is judging.