My heart actually hurt a little for Hoyer. That guy was quick and decisive. Not a world beater, but he did a good job.Weeden's presnap communication sucks, the offensive line's adjustments are suspect, and they're easily confused and beaten by simple stunts while Weeden sits back in the pocket and counts to 20.(though, yes, Weeden was much better than Tuell and his shoestring missiles)

And damn, Chud / Norvelicious love to run the ball into piles of people.

I guess what I'm saying is Cleveland can go back to tanking the season and it's a shame. They've been (*gulp*) fun to watch this year.

On Weeden, he's really good when he gets his rhythm down. But the problem with him is that he needs to get in rhythm to be any good. There was a tangible difference in throwing speed between him and Hoyer. He has too much fear of the pick that Hoyer didn't have (and that led to corrections to turn his 3-pick game against the Vikings into a 0-pick game against the Bengals.) The hesitation throws off his timing and his arm speed, and you see just what happens to thrown balls that are affected by it: Over everyone's head or into the ground...or if upfield, possibly picked off. But, the game was a microcosm of the Browns' season so far: Just when you think they've given up, they storm back and beat you. If the team can keep playing like that, they'll actually be able to win some games despite Weeden...and then there'll be a few games where he's lights out.

And yeah, the timing of the injury is absolutely the worst - 2 games to make you think "Hey, what's that?... that looks like respectable maybe even good QB play..." but not enough games to think "Yep, he's the guy for next year"...

So now we've got Weeden who clearly ISNT the guy (my god is he slow getting the ball out).

3 more freaking games would have answered the question of moving ahead next year with Hoyer or confirmed the need to get move up and get a QB in the draft - and damn was I excited thinking about using all those picks on players instead of having to buy our way up to get another possibility at QB.

Fizpez:Is Hoyer out for the year? I can't seem to find the news anywhere...

And yeah, the timing of the injury is absolutely the worst - 2 games to make you think "Hey, what's that?... that looks like respectable maybe even good QB play..." but not enough games to think "Yep, he's the guy for next year"...

So now we've got Weeden who clearly ISNT the guy (my god is he slow getting the ball out).

3 more freaking games would have answered the question of moving ahead next year with Hoyer or confirmed the need to get move up and get a QB in the draft - and damn was I excited thinking about using all those picks on players instead of having to buy our way up to get another possibility at QB.

Pretty sure the Browns already knew Hoyer wasn't anything more than a stopgap.

EyeballKid:And, what's worst, they're winning, so they can't even participate in the Tank for Teddy, which the Steelers are looking to be the odds-on favorite.

The Rooney family should probably clean house if this gets worse this season. This is a disaster and Steelers aren't known for being disasters in the Modern Era. They need to get rid of Todd Haley now. Tomlin will probably leave for the Jets, Ben Roethlisberger will get signed by the Browns.

Fizpez:Is Hoyer out for the year? I can't seem to find the news anywhere...

And yeah, the timing of the injury is absolutely the worst - 2 games to make you think "Hey, what's that?... that looks like respectable maybe even good QB play..." but not enough games to think "Yep, he's the guy for next year"...

So now we've got Weeden who clearly ISNT the guy (my god is he slow getting the ball out).

3 more freaking games would have answered the question of moving ahead next year with Hoyer or confirmed the need to get move up and get a QB in the draft - and damn was I excited thinking about using all those picks on players instead of having to buy our way up to get another possibility at QB.

degenerate-afro:Rhypskallion: Subby's headline might be true. But right now, the Browns are the class of the AFC North. Whodhavethunkit?

For two more days at least.

Baltimore plays @ MIami, not an easy game this year, I'd give edge Miami at this point.

Cincinnati gets the Patriots at home.... while on paper this seems like the Bengals should have a shot.... historically the Patriots always play even better than their roster dictates, and the Bengals always play below their collection of roster talent.

I would not be surprised in the least if Cleveland is in first place in the division by themselves after this weekend.

Fizpez:Is Hoyer out for the year? I can't seem to find the news anywhere...

And yeah, the timing of the injury is absolutely the worst - 2 games to make you think "Hey, what's that?... that looks like respectable maybe even good QB play..." but not enough games to think "Yep, he's the guy for next year"...

So now we've got Weeden who clearly ISNT the guy (my god is he slow getting the ball out).

3 more freaking games would have answered the question of moving ahead next year with Hoyer or confirmed the need to get move up and get a QB in the draft - and damn was I excited thinking about using all those picks on players instead of having to buy our way up to get another possibility at QB.

IlGreven:vdawg: There might be two wins left for this team. Another 5-11 season in the books. The defense will keep them in games, but with little ability to move the football effectively, it's all for naught.

They have Jacksonville, the Jets, and Pittsburgh twice. They'll go 7-9 in spite of whatever Weeden does on O.

That would be good if they were getting those games earlier on and could build upon good feelings and a 5-3 or 6-2 record... unfortunately right now they'll be going into a gauntlet of Detroit, GB, and KC..... unless they show us they are really for real, that looks like 3-5 for the halfway point. I would say them winning any 1 of those 3 though would be a morale booster... 4-4 at the halfway point, most likely in the thick of a mediocre division race, and they beat a good "team on paper" at least (even if GB continues to not play well, a win against them looks good on paper considering their QB and history the past 4-5 seasons).

On a lighter note, the Bills cut their punter today, as though it was his fault the Bills couldn't tackle Travis Benjamin. Hell, he was the only thing keeping Benjamin from having two punt return touchdowns.

IlGreven:On a lighter note, the Bills cut their punter today, as though it was his fault the Bills couldn't tackle Travis Benjamin. Hell, he was the only thing keeping Benjamin from having two punt return touchdowns.

He was practically kicking short line drives. No height or hang time at all.

And no Terry Pluto from the Akron Beacon Journal is reporting that Coach Chud's conference call included a confirmation that the ACL is torn, surgery will be required and that Hoyer won't play again this season.

Nana's Vibrator:IlGreven: On a lighter note, the Bills cut their punter today, as though it was his fault the Bills couldn't tackle Travis Benjamin. Hell, he was the only thing keeping Benjamin from having two punt return touchdowns.

He was practically kicking short line drives. No height or hang time at all.

In the game I watched last night, the punter was rushing every kick because he had pressure up in his grill on EVERY snap. He never had *time* to wind up and kick it to his fullest.

I'd laugh at you, but I am too busy preparing my "told you so" speeches for when Matt Cassell starts shiatting the bed. All the while ignoring when he does I either get Ponder or our third stringer. All after we get just enough wins to get ourselves out of the top 3 picks of next years draft.

dletter:IlGreven: vdawg: There might be two wins left for this team. Another 5-11 season in the books. The defense will keep them in games, but with little ability to move the football effectively, it's all for naught.

They have Jacksonville, the Jets, and Pittsburgh twice. They'll go 7-9 in spite of whatever Weeden does on O.

That would be good if they were getting those games earlier on and could build upon good feelings and a 5-3 or 6-2 record... unfortunately right now they'll be going into a gauntlet of Detroit, GB, and KC..... unless they show us they are really for real, that looks like 3-5 for the halfway point. I would say them winning any 1 of those 3 though would be a morale booster... 4-4 at the halfway point, most likely in the thick of a mediocre division race, and they beat a good "team on paper" at least (even if GB continues to not play well, a win against them looks good on paper considering their QB and history the past 4-5 seasons).

Jacksonville + one against Pittsburgh + the three wins they already have = 5

Unless Weeden morphs into somebody who doesn't hang on to the ball for 4.5 seconds on average, I see nothing more than those two wins.

vdawg:dletter: IlGreven: vdawg: There might be two wins left for this team. Another 5-11 season in the books. The defense will keep them in games, but with little ability to move the football effectively, it's all for naught.

They have Jacksonville, the Jets, and Pittsburgh twice. They'll go 7-9 in spite of whatever Weeden does on O.

That would be good if they were getting those games earlier on and could build upon good feelings and a 5-3 or 6-2 record... unfortunately right now they'll be going into a gauntlet of Detroit, GB, and KC..... unless they show us they are really for real, that looks like 3-5 for the halfway point. I would say them winning any 1 of those 3 though would be a morale booster... 4-4 at the halfway point, most likely in the thick of a mediocre division race, and they beat a good "team on paper" at least (even if GB continues to not play well, a win against them looks good on paper considering their QB and history the past 4-5 seasons).

Jacksonville + one against Pittsburgh + the three wins they already have = 5

Unless Weeden morphs into somebody who doesn't hang on to the ball for 4.5 seconds on average, I see nothing more than those two wins.

Oh, that is certainly, and most likely possible.... I was just saying, IF they somehow managed to win one of the next 3 games, that, by itself, would probably be a morale booster, considering the team they'd have beaten. If their next 3 games were Pittsburgh, Jax, @Pittsburgh... they might actually have had a chance to go 2-1 or 3-0 in that stretch, and then, being 6-2 (even if a somewhat overinflated 6-2) can sometimes make you play over your abilities in later games. The fact that they'll most likely be a demoralized 4-7 by the time they get to those easier games at the end of the year, doesn't bode well.