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So I've been reading about the class structure in this game and some other features and I've been excited about it for a while.. but the more I read the more I realize I was fooling myself.

I've played a ton of MMO's since EQ and nothing came close to it... because every MMO I've played since feels like its geared towards solo players with a "get in" and "get out" quick mindset. I think everything is too available and too easy and as a result nobody needs each other so its like playing Skyrim in a room full of other people playing Skyrim! no interaction. Even in GW2 where you get big groups of players together - there is no communication and no teamwork.

I miss needing help to get a corpse rez, or an escort across a dangerous zone, or figuring out a confusing quest, or getting that awesome item, or shouting out "DING!!!" when I got a level because it was an actual accomplishment..

I really just want a clone of the original EverQuest with updated graphics for 2014 and maybe a few fun features.. Dynamic landscapes? cool. Player Housing? Sure sounds great.

I guess this was sort of a rant, but I'm interested to know how many people agree with me and miss some of the old features in EQ that really created a community.. and if they think there is hope that EQN will rekindle some of this old "magic"

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So I've been reading about the class structure in this game and some other features and I've been excited about it for a while.. but the more I read the more I realize I was fooling myself.

I've played a ton of MMO's since EQ and nothing came close to it... because every MMO I've played since feels like its geared towards solo players with a "get in" and "get out" quick mindset. I think everything is too available and too easy and as a result nobody needs each other so its like playing Skyrim in a room full of other people playing Skyrim! no interaction. Even in GW2 where you get big groups of players together - there is no communication and no teamwork.

I miss needing help to get a corpse rez, or an escort across a dangerous zone, or figuring out a confusing quest, or getting that awesome item, or shouting out "DING!!!" when I got a level because it was an actual accomplishment..

I really just want a clone of the original EverQuest with updated graphics for 2014 and maybe a few fun features.. Dynamic landscapes? cool. Player Housing? Sure sounds great.

I guess this was sort of a rant, but I'm interested to know how many people agree with me and miss some of the old features in EQ that really created a community.. and if they think there is hope that EQN will rekindle some of this old "magic"

You might want to check out, Pantheon Rise of the fallen. As for Everquest Next despite all the complaining on here nobody knows how it going to be like. You should try it when it comes out , since its free to play and see if you like the new Everquest or not.

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I agree with your sentiments to an extent, I also don't like how everyone plays in a world together, but separately :) There is a limit though, free time is finite so it's a tough metric to balance.

I think teamwork was in GW2 in the overworld due to AoE effects and heal/rezzing by all. There were of course dungeons for formed groups but like most all MMOs now that's only 10% of the content. I think group content should be all over the place, not just in a few dungeons.

I still hold out hope that EQN will have a variety of areas with difficulty. They said with the AI system they can make mobs "harder" by how they react to conditions. There will be of course solo areas, they'd be stupid not to, but I'm hoping for some challenge.

As far as progression achievements EQN sounds to have a different way of gauging that. Gearing a class to the next tier, the EQN equivalent of levels, is said to take a week to three depending for a max tier of five. That said there are 39 other classes and you don't just purchase them from a trainer, set situations and deeds open up the opportunity. Doing the math on how long it would take to get to the "top" is substantial even before considering additional classes over time.

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Originally posted by JamesErnst

I've played a ton of MMO's since EQ and nothing came close to it... because every MMO I've played since feels like its geared towards solo players with a "get in" and "get out" quick mindset. I think everything is too available and too easy and as a result nobody needs each other so its like playing Skyrim in a room full of other people playing Skyrim! no interaction. Even in GW2 where you get big groups of players together - there is no communication and no teamwork.

I miss needing help to get a corpse rez, or an escort across a dangerous zone, or figuring out a confusing quest, or getting that awesome item, or shouting out "DING!!!" when I got a level because it was an actual accomplishment..

I really just want a clone of the original EverQuest with updated graphics for 2014 and maybe a few fun features.. Dynamic landscapes? cool. Player Housing? Sure sounds great.

I guess this was sort of a rant, but I'm interested to know how many people agree with me and miss some of the old features in EQ that really created a community.. and if they think there is hope that EQN will rekindle some of this old "magic"

I asked in your other post, but what "ton" of games have you played that were geared towards soloing? It amazes me that people feel alone in mmos. In almost 19 years, I've never had that feeling or issue.

I do agree with the "get in/out" feel, but that is what people want. It isn't 1999 anymore. The majority of gamers aren't hardcore geeks that can spend 12 hours a day camping a spawn. It was fun at a time, but that time is long gone. Content can still be challenging and rewarding in a short time span though.

If you follow the herd and don't take the initiative, you have no room to complain. No one is forcing anyone to be alone or not work with others. No way i could of ran a 40-man raid in WoW or killed multiple groups of players in DAoC, WAR, GW2, all by myself. There are those that put in the effort and those that don't.

While I think EQN will hit on a lot of what EQ vets miss, Pantheon is probably the best choice for those that want no originality and just want to go back in time. I get it, but if I had wanted to play EQ99 forever, I would still be playing it, so would many others that seem to have forgotten why they left in the first place.

Community is what you make of it. Some games are better than others, but no game will ever be like EQ. It was a special time. The gaming world is too vast today and it can't be recreated. Doesn't mean people can't still have a great social experience. I've always had one and plan to continue to do so.

EQN has many elements that will help a "Community" grow and thrive. We know little so far, but it is looking better than anything else coming out.

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The argument that most gamers are casual and want to sit down and enjoy a video game for 30 minutes seems to be common, but it's patently false. Before the novelty wore off, SWTOR's average play times were quite high. I guarantee that most gamers find ample free time to play something and want to be engrossed while doing so. The problem is that a very vocal part of the MMO community clamors for things they really don't want, thus the garbage that's been pumped out the last 10 years.

This notion that the paradigm has shifted in a way that doesn't allow people as much free time is just ridiculous.

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Originally posted by supertouchme

The argument that most gamers are casual and want to sit down and enjoy a video game for 30 minutes seems to be common, but it's patently false. Before the novelty wore off, SWTOR's average play times were quite high. I guarantee that most gamers find ample free time to play something and want to be engrossed while doing so. The problem is that a very vocal part of the MMO community clamors for things they really don't want, thus the garbage that's been pumped out the last 10 years.

This notion that the paradigm has shifted in a way that doesn't allow people as much free time is just ridiculous.

While I agree the 30 minute number is a bit low, on the other hand, I doubt most want to spend 5+ hours in a raid or days trying to get their corpse back either.

Problem is that many "vets" want a game that only caters to them aka gaming is my life and I can spend endless hours in-game. Seems their egos can't handle others having a good time while they are "working hard" for some random goal they think has importance. While others are fine with a game that caters to everyone.

It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. A game can have decent 30min-1 or 2 hour content and 5+ hour content. EQN sounds like an attempt to please everyone.

Those on the extreme ends of either side will be upset, but the majority hanging out in the middle will be more than happy.

Those that want to be "the hero" and do a "raid" in 10 min can stick to WoW and those that want a painful PVE grind can go for Pantheon or whatever.

I think you are right that nothing has shifted, but the player base has grown immensely. EQ's playerbase is now just a part of the whole, not the whole. Gamers now come in every shape and form and no longer fall into a simple 1 size fits all category.

...Maybe its me. I was so young when I played EverQuest and now I just experience these games differently.. I've just read a lot of posts about people who feel similarly to me so I didn't want to think it was me.

I try to talk to people in games now and most of them ignore me. I remember in Everquest I could be running across a continent and I'd find another traveler on the road and it was common to throw out a /hail and find out where they were going and I thought that was cool. I feel like when I log into a game now I'm wandering around Manhattan, where it would be strange if I went up to someone on the street and said hello! hahaha..

I do really miss the way quests were in Everquest as well... I've not seen a quest system like that since.

...I will definitely be trying EQN and I'm going to look into Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen!

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Originally posted by JamesErnst

...Maybe its me. I was so young when I played EverQuest and now I just experience these games differently.. I've just read a lot of posts about people who feel similarly to me so I didn't want to think it was me.

I try to talk to people in games now and most of them ignore me. I

You're not alone. It's a symptom of the way games are designed these days.

You don't ever have to be social to succeed fully at the game, so people never do. They play it like a singleplayer game. GW2 was one of the most weirdly anti social games I ever played. I was "soft grouped" with people all around me, but they might as well have been bots. No interaction, no chat, no grouping.

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Originally posted by Tibernicuspa

Originally posted by JamesErnst

...Maybe its me. I was so young when I played EverQuest and now I just experience these games differently.. I've just read a lot of posts about people who feel similarly to me so I didn't want to think it was me.

I try to talk to people in games now and most of them ignore me.

You're not alone. It's a symptom of the way games are designed these days.

agree, it wasnt your age

i was 38 when i played EQ in 1999.. EQ was a more social game (for me)

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Agreed with you up to a point.

I really miss the teamwork in older MMO's. Although I didn't play the original EQ, one of my fondest memories in MMO gaming would be when people got together to do the first open group zones in EQ2's Antonia (the gnoll caves), or the ruins in Qeynos, or when we grouped up to fight that one worldboss drake. That game was great for stuff like that and few games after it have giving me that same feel.

At the same time, the whole genre has moved on as well and although GW2 failed to provide that teamwork spirit, I did enjoy the fact that I wasn't locked into a role forever.

If EQN can capture both feels, by allowing you to explore every role and switch between the different options, but not necessarily requiring everything to be universal in one given fight or situation, I think it could really make for a mighty strong experience.

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Sure I miss many things that made EQ a great game, but I don't think SOE is making their newest baby for the people who enjoy the really ancient parts of the MMO genre. And frankly I don't think they should...

Some of us want to relive our finest memory in EQ, but you've got to admit it's a really niche market. People kept complaining about GW2's zerg fest and lack of group mechanics... hell I WAS one of those whiners! But the fact is that lots of people are enjoying the game and Anet is still doing very well no matter how many haters are claiming that the game is dead. At the end of the day, I think it's quite obvious that the gamers have changed in the past decade, for better or worse.

EQN is probably going to be pretty cool if they can really give us what they've pitched at the grand reveal, and from what I've seen in Landmark I'm actually looking forward to see what they have up their sleeves even though it might not be that hardcore.

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I could see a mall shooting or the like happen nowadays because someone got "Traaaaaaaaain!"'d in the Burrow or waited 5 days for a guy to spawn for a .5% chance of a cloak only to have someone jump in and kill steal it.

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So I've been reading about the class structure in this game and some other features and I've been excited about it for a while.. but the more I read the more I realize I was fooling myself.

I've played a ton of MMO's since EQ and nothing came close to it... because every MMO I've played since feels like its geared towards solo players with a "get in" and "get out" quick mindset. I think everything is too available and too easy and as a result nobody needs each other so its like playing Skyrim in a room full of other people playing Skyrim! no interaction. Even in GW2 where you get big groups of players together - there is no communication and no teamwork.

I miss needing help to get a corpse rez, or an escort across a dangerous zone, or figuring out a confusing quest, or getting that awesome item, or shouting out "DING!!!" when I got a level because it was an actual accomplishment..

I really just want a clone of the original EverQuest with updated graphics for 2014 and maybe a few fun features.. Dynamic landscapes? cool. Player Housing? Sure sounds great.

I guess this was sort of a rant, but I'm interested to know how many people agree with me and miss some of the old features in EQ that really created a community.. and if they think there is hope that EQN will rekindle some of this old "magic"

Yes so far I am looking at 2 MMOs that will fill my desires for MMO's Pantheon by Brad McQuaid or Camelot Unchained. Both look promising. I am into Old School MMOs not this easy kiddie crap. I want my work to give a feeling of accomplishment, not just a grind then the feeling of "I did it again for the 100th time"

I am a founder for Camelot Unchained, but if that does not impress me I definately will give Pantheon a try I might try PAntheon a try anyhow, as it comes out a few years later anyways. I wish there were some good old school MMOs out now.

NirrtixALPHAs:-Pantheon-Shroud of the Avatar-Camelot UnchainedBETAs:-World of Warcraft-City of Heroes-Star Wars Galaxies-Saga of Ryzom-Homeworld-Starcraft II-Warcraft III-Hearthstone-Star Wars The Old Republic-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

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Originally posted by IkedaI could see a mall shooting or the like happen nowadays because someone got "Traaaaaaaaain!"'d in the Burrow or waited 5 days for a guy to spawn for a .5% chance of a cloak only to have someone jump in and kill steal it.

Fond memories of BB TRAIN!!! then 200 gnolls would come plowing everything in sight. That is something I miss...

NirrtixALPHAs:-Pantheon-Shroud of the Avatar-Camelot UnchainedBETAs:-World of Warcraft-City of Heroes-Star Wars Galaxies-Saga of Ryzom-Homeworld-Starcraft II-Warcraft III-Hearthstone-Star Wars The Old Republic-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

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Originally posted by leoo88556

Sure I miss many things that made EQ a great game, but I don't think SOE is making their newest baby for the people who enjoy the really ancient parts of the MMO genre. And frankly I don't think they should...

Some of us want to relive our finest memory in EQ, but you've got to admit it's a really niche market. People kept complaining about GW2's zerg fest and lack of group mechanics... hell I WAS one of those whiners! But the fact is that lots of people are enjoying the game and Anet is still doing very well no matter how many haters are claiming that the game is dead. At the end of the day, I think it's quite obvious that the gamers have changed in the past decade, for better or worse.

EQN is probably going to be pretty cool if they can really give us what they've pitched at the grand reveal, and from what I've seen in Landmark I'm actually looking forward to see what they have up their sleeves even though it might not be that hardcore.

Not everything has to be like the old Everquest. The problem is instnaces and stuff. Why not guides to the people you group with or something? There are other ways. The games need to be social, not instances everywhere. WoW is a very anti-social game. Ever compare WoW's community to EQ1 or EQ2? WoW is very anti-social in comaprison.

The problem is the new games changed the genre too much. Why not have competition again? Why not have 24 hour camps again? Why not have zones groups share? WoW got rid of that.

EQ1 did many things right modern MMO's got rid of. Some things it did right do not have to stay, one thing new MMO's did right (but was more of a technology thing )was outdoor instances. Many players took advantage of it against mobs though.

NirrtixALPHAs:-Pantheon-Shroud of the Avatar-Camelot UnchainedBETAs:-World of Warcraft-City of Heroes-Star Wars Galaxies-Saga of Ryzom-Homeworld-Starcraft II-Warcraft III-Hearthstone-Star Wars The Old Republic-Vanguard Saga of Heroes

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Originally posted by Allein

Originally posted by JamesErnst

I've played a ton of MMO's since EQ and nothing came close to it... because every MMO I've played since feels like its geared towards solo players with a "get in" and "get out" quick mindset. I think everything is too available and too easy and as a result nobody needs each other so its like playing Skyrim in a room full of other people playing Skyrim! no interaction. Even in GW2 where you get big groups of players together - there is no communication and no teamwork.

I miss needing help to get a corpse rez, or an escort across a dangerous zone, or figuring out a confusing quest, or getting that awesome item, or shouting out "DING!!!" when I got a level because it was an actual accomplishment..

I really just want a clone of the original EverQuest with updated graphics for 2014 and maybe a few fun features.. Dynamic landscapes? cool. Player Housing? Sure sounds great.

I guess this was sort of a rant, but I'm interested to know how many people agree with me and miss some of the old features in EQ that really created a community.. and if they think there is hope that EQN will rekindle some of this old "magic"

I asked in your other post, but what "ton" of games have you played that were geared towards soloing? It amazes me that people feel alone in mmos. In almost 19 years, I've never had that feeling or issue.

I do agree with the "get in/out" feel, but that is what people want. It isn't 1999 anymore. The majority of gamers aren't hardcore geeks that can spend 12 hours a day camping a spawn. It was fun at a time, but that time is long gone. Content can still be challenging and rewarding in a short time span though.

If you follow the herd and don't take the initiative, you have no room to complain. No one is forcing anyone to be alone or not work with others. No way i could of ran a 40-man raid in WoW or killed multiple groups of players in DAoC, WAR, GW2, all by myself. There are those that put in the effort and those that don't.

While I think EQN will hit on a lot of what EQ vets miss, Pantheon is probably the best choice for those that want no originality and just want to go back in time. I get it, but if I had wanted to play EQ99 forever, I would still be playing it, so would many others that seem to have forgotten why they left in the first place.

Community is what you make of it. Some games are better than others, but no game will ever be like EQ. It was a special time. The gaming world is too vast today and it can't be recreated. Doesn't mean people can't still have a great social experience. I've always had one and plan to continue to do so.

EQN has many elements that will help a "Community" grow and thrive. We know little so far, but it is looking better than anything else coming out.

I think that to say we want no originality is wrong. No Pantheon is different than EQ1. Pantheon keeps what EQ1 did best, but adds new concepts too. Fact of the matter is that Pantheon is an Old School MMO, EQ NExt is trying to be something new loosly based off the EQ universe. That is not what we want at all. Besides, EQNext is free, so there is nothing stopping us from trying it we can decide first hand.

NirrtixALPHAs:-Pantheon-Shroud of the Avatar-Camelot UnchainedBETAs:-World of Warcraft-City of Heroes-Star Wars Galaxies-Saga of Ryzom-Homeworld-Starcraft II-Warcraft III-Hearthstone-Star Wars The Old Republic-Vanguard Saga of Heroes