My preference is for climbers to learn outside. It seems climbers who learn outside are more safety conscious and self-sufficient, while in a gym most every safety aspect except tying in is done for you.

I can see your point there. I believe there are pros and cons to both, ultimately we all need to take the self responsibility to be safe no matter who or where we are. I've been to Taqhuitz once and climbed a 5.5 (Angels Fright)as a second that in some areas I think I would have been pretty scared on lead. Perhaps I was not as experienced then on multi pitch so that may have contributed to it, but it still felt harder than other 5.5s I have done on more recently developed areas. I would not recommend going as a total newb by oneself.

That is true. Like I said earlier, I'm surprised I didn't get myself killed their when I was just still learning. As for the ratings, The Trough was originally rated 5.0 and over the years it's rating has been creeping up. Now the current guidebook rates it as 5.4+ but its easily a 5.5 or a 5.6 if it were at other climbing areas. Tahquitz is stout for the grade!

but its easily a 5.5 or a 5.6 if it were at other climbing areas. Tahquitz is stout for the grade!

You are aware that the YDS was born at Tahquitz, right? The original ratings of those early climbs ARE the standard, all these other areas where they would be rated harder are just soft-like-kitten areas.

"if you crush 5.7 why take people up white maidens (probably the worst route on the rock?) I think you are the person this posting was for...keep your gumby ass and your friends off of our rock asshole. By the way their is a reason experienced people dont climb in the freeze/thaw zone this time of year as you may have heard of the rock fall on "the trough". I bet you felt like a "stonemaster" leading that group but that doesnt make you a leader anymore than bagging on the people who are."

Some people have no sense of humor. But this ingenious missive from Eric Coffman got me thinking... I'm pretty sure I've seen this dude at Tahquitz before...

I got some pictures a couple of times:

Mountin' Lyin'

Then once while following P2 on Fingertrip:

Mountin' Lyin' 2

And then on the Long/Wong linkup last fall:

mountin lyin 3

In case you doubt that that is, indeed, the mountainlion, here's a video of him pulling down at the Thin Wall in Josh. You'll see the resemblance, I'm sure.

Next he'll be collecting a toll to use the friction descent... At the very least he should be charging for sharing info about what part of Tahquitz is in the "freeze/thaw zone." Lord only knows where that might be, since only parts of the rock are subject to freezing temperatures. Oh, wait...

On a more serious note, the Maiden, far from "the worst route on the rock" is an awesome route for new climbers. Among the six people in our three-rope team, four had never climbed a multi-pitch before. Along with a bunch of other people in front of and behind us, we managed to enjoy ourselves without bothering a single elitist douchebag like Eric Coffman.

Sorry dude...take your self-important nonsense to some other crag. Nobody needs your advice at Tahquitz. People have been getting themselves in and out of trouble there for years. Your brilliant unsolicited advice is neither wanted nor needed.

Well, apparently the mountainlion forgot how to post. Another semi-literate email received today:

"I stand by my posting bagging on people whose only goal is to help prevent injuries and death means you are not a leader. By the way lets see a video of you if you aren't to cowardly to post it on you tube"

Oh man, don't say you didn't ask for it. I'll post it right here!

Feast your eyes on this delight; me, brand new to climbing, out of shape, flailing, huffing, and puffing on the start of The Flake in Joshua Tree...for like 5 minutes. You gotta be brave to share video like this:

Yee Haw! Man, mix in a few salads, fat boy...

I guess I don't need to stroke my ego with videos of myself leading some dinky .10a that I have wired or better yet...Eric Coffman CRUSHING 5.1 while soloing THE EYE!:

were you on white maidens on sunday? i ran into someone who had a crew who never climbed tahquitz before.

We were there on Saturday...A group of three two-person ropes which became a four-person rope and a two-person rope midway. Ha! Ironically, the only thing that slowed us down (no worries, we got a late start) was the three-person rope in front of us...that is, until they made a 50-foot unprotected traverse on the fourth pitch that probably took them somewhere near fool's rush.

It was so funny I had to take a picture of it. Look near the top of this photo (taken right before the doubtful corner) to see that traverse. Ha! As I climbed straight up past where their third had just started the traverse, she asked "oh, are we off route?" I was like "oh, no worries...I've been over there, it's easy." :) Pictures of our noob parade are here.

I love that route...it was one of my earliest leads (single or multipitch) and I've taken plenty of noobs up it. More than one has told me after the fact over a cold one that it was one of the most exciting things they'd ever done. How can you beat that? To me, that's what climbing is all about.

Tahquitz is a great place. This weekend I'll be on Angels Fright with a friend and his 11-year old son, and we can take our time without being in anyone's way. I'm sure that I'll get to watch some folks testing themselves on the Vampire while I belay the upper pitches. If not, I can enjoy the great scenery and the swifts zipping around. Always a great day up there.

Hi Will S., Yes, I do understand that the YDS was begun at Tahquitz and that The Trough is probably the first climb at Tahquitz. Just making a commentary on how those grades are stout compared to other places.

Yet, for argument's sake, if more beginners climbed at Tahquitz perhaps we would have tougher climbers in the world. Just a thought.

My preference is for climbers to learn outside. It seems climbers who learn outside are more safety conscious and self-sufficient, while in a gym most every safety aspect except tying in is done for you.

Tahquitz is great for beginners!!! Just Kidding. Me and my buddy went out and tackled WMW for our second Trad multi-pitch ever. It was heady at times, we got off route, scared ourselves to death, and past one party that bailed. If you are a confident leader and know how to look ahead and make good decisions on the rock then go climb there. I loved every pitch of it!

Jonathan, Be sure to wait until you CRUSH 5.7 before you return to attempt such routes as Fingertip Traverse, The Trough, The Left Ski Track, Jensen's Jaunt, The Larks, etc. Failing to do so could result in dangerous levels of excitement, overnight epics, and even potentially upsetting those who are certifiable CRUSHERS of 5.7. I'm just sayin'

Thanks Chris I will work harder... I am just learning how to crush the one 5.7 in my gym. Do you think once I get to the top of that I am good enough? Right now I have to hang half way up to get the pump out. Also why does my gym only cater to those who climb HARD like 5.9 how am I supposed to learn without some 5.5's?

Chris, awesome vimeo on The Flake. Looks like 5.8 was crushing you and vice versa. Re: NOOBS. I don't know of a better place for multi-pitch trad beginner. As long as they can climb a ladder onto a first story roof and smear to the peak, they can do the Trough. After crushing that successfully, they're ready for Tahquitz/Suicide's awesome array of multi-pitch moderates (Angel Fright, Left Ski Track, White Maiden Walkway, Fingertrip/tip, Sahara Terror, El Whampo, Graham Cracker, etc) that arguably as good as you'll find anywhere. So, if you can CRUSH lead 5.7a+ PG (or 5.6a- for you Gunky hardmen) or pull 5.12+ overhung in the gym, plug a crack with gear, and set up an anchor and belay, it doesn't get much better. I just read this entire thread and it's hilarious. BTW, last time at Tqhquitz, we met another party at the summit. We used friction descent and they rapped the Open Book (bad idea). We beat them down to lunch rock by a bunch.