It seems that there are always 'worldly' blessings attached to serving the Lord in Mormon culture. Heaven forbid that in following Jesus one actually gets a cross and privation rather than a beautiful family, successful career, and a large suburban house with 2 SUVs.

Is it embarrassing to the church? Y - Speaking as a man N - Inspired doctrine, unless some point in the future it becomes embarassing, in which case - Speaking as a man

you forgot third option:Is it an exaggerated or fabricated anecdote put forth by an atheist or bitter former member or self-doubting critic? Y - then thread is bait.i do not believe a word of the story in OP.

_________________Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your libertyI can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at themwhat is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams

well i have recently discovered that factual and verifiable events are of the utmost importance in establishing the credibility of any "story".viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20563

Quote:

Sadly sub, if anything, I've underplayed what he actually said.

in light of the above mentioned thread you must be able to offer evidence/proof that what you say is true and actual and verifiable....or else you may be a "liar.There is more reason to believe you fabricated the OP than not.

i can wait for the proof of what you say in the OP.....then....we can legitimately discuss your "point".(just wait until you re-tell that story in 40 years, no telling what you will say)

_________________Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your libertyI can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at themwhat is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams

Great response, except I'm not a Prophet standing up at a Conference on behalf of God and I absolutely could be fabricating this tale and you have no way of verifying it (unlike Monson's Conference story).

However, if you read above I think you'll find a poster who doesn't see eye to eye with me on a number of things, confirming that this type of thing actually does go on.

So sub,

1. Do you believe this is down to human error? or2. Does the Church believe this?

_________________'Church pictures are not always accurate' (The Nehor May 4th 2011)

Morality is doing what is right, regardless of what you are told.Religion is doing what you are told, regardless of what is right.

Alvin R. Dyer did a missionary conference talk years back (he was a member of first pres) in which this concept dated back to faithfulness levels in the pre-mortal existence, where mortal rewards resulted in one being born to goodly parents in the "promised land" verses waking up in Ethiopia starving and with aids.

There is nothing new about rewards based faithfulness in the LDS religion.

Is it embarrassing to the church? Y - Speaking as a man N - Inspired doctrine, unless some point in the future it becomes embarassing, in which case - Speaking as a man

you forgot third option:Is it an exaggerated or fabricated anecdote put forth by an atheist or bitter former member or self-doubting critic? Y - then thread is bait.i do not believe a word of the story in OP.

Apparently you're an inactive Mormon and not familiar with what goes on in these sorts of meetings.

Great response, except I'm not a Prophet standing up at a Conference on behalf of God and I absolutely could be fabricating this tale and you have no way of verifying it (unlike Monson's Conference story).

However, if you read above I think you'll find a poster who doesn't see eye to eye with me on a number of things, confirming that this type of thing actually does go on.

So sub,

1. Do you believe this is down to human error? or2. Does the Church believe this?

it is a given that you are not a prophet...however the thread mentioned did not make that a condition for the truthfulness of things...nor is it perpetuated that a prophet is infallible (even Christ missed one or two).

you have yet to prove that "this" exists at all - see my prior post.so, answers to both 1 and 2, are "no" with regards to what you would consider "this".

still waiting for your "evidence", until then i stand by the claim that your story is a fabrication and merits no further discussion, founded on the thread i have referenced above.

_________________Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your libertyI can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at themwhat is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams

Alvin R. Dyer did a missionary conference talk years back (he was a member of first pres) in which this concept dated back to faithfulness levels in the pre-mortal existence, where mortal rewards resulted in one being born to goodly parents in the "promised land" verses waking up in Ethiopia starving and with aids.

There is nothing new about rewards based faithfulness in the LDS religion.

reductionist crap.1. The topic of this thread is clearly stated in the OP, and those "facts" are in question.2. A notion of "choice" and "better" is relative in this context.3. The "concept" is true, but the application of that concept in this thread's OP is not.

_________________Seek freedom and become captive of your desires...seek discipline and find your libertyI can tell if a person is judgmental just by looking at themwhat is chaos to the fly is normal to the spider - morticia addams

reductionist crap.1. The topic of this thread is clearly stated in the OP, and those "facts" are in question.2. A notion of "choice" and "better" is relative in this context.3. The "concept" is true, but the application of that concept in this thread's OP is not.

Well, I could care less about arguing if the OP stories true, heck I've personally heard the "concept" told many times in many varieties.

Even the idea that Mormon's believe your item 2 and 3 is what is troubling to many other Christians that believe that Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven work on the concept of "Grace".

It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.

Out of 7 heavens, the upper 5 only appear to be available to Mormon's (via endowment), and to achieve the highest is very "requirements" based.

It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.

And women are once again reduced to being judged based on appearance rather than intrinsic worth. For their bodies instead of for their minds. For their rlative attractiveness instead of their abilities.

Foolish foolish men.

_________________(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.

It is very unfortunate, for the Mormon's that this very concept leads to such elitism, even among the members.

And women are once again reduced to being judged based on appearance rather than intrinsic worth. For their bodies instead of for their minds. For their rlative attractiveness instead of their abilities.

Foolish foolish men.

They are reduced to trophy status.

_________________not all facts are even facts~ldsfaqsAnd if pigs flew we wouldn't usually eat pork.~ldsfaqs

~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~

I've had many a missionary relate the belief that they will get a prettier wife by going on a mission. Many still believe it. Perhaps the church leaders that have stated this do so in inspiring more men to go on missions - at any cost and for any reason.. For shame.

In the book of Job God had placed a hedge around Job because he was a righteous man. But God allowed Satan to take away Job's possessions and then torture him. Job remained righteous. So we learn that God does place a hedge around some people. Abraham comes to mind and the entire future after Abraham is changed because those who bless the offspring of Abraham will be blessed and those who curse his descendants are cursed. But do these blessings and curses come in the flesh or are they after we die? I would say a mixture. To promise a blessing from God about a future relationship does seem like a stretch but if one sees this through different eyes it may make more sense. If indeed your are a righteous person will you attract a righteous mate? If you surround yourself with righteous people are the chances better that you will have a righteous wife? These kinds of things are better left in general context and people should avoid making statements that appeal to the flesh. But many do think rewards will be on the earth. It can happen but is rare. More than likely trials will take place.