This thread has a simple purpose. A lot of people have some pretty ridiculous and stupid ideas of what people do in the Russian mafia and other organized crime syndicates. I do not. I was a member for 7 years before getting flipped and rolling my way out with a plea bargain, and I now devote a large portion of my time to preventing at risk youths like I used to be from ending up with the same illusions I used to have. That is the purpose of this thread.

I know a great deal about the local, national, and international workings of the Russian mafia, as I was given an unusual opportunity early on by the man who recruited me. I will answer any questions you ask, with the following restrictions.

1. All names will be fake. Some will be repeated. There will be many Ivans and Boriss simply because I can. They will be lettered and numbered as needed.

2. All locations will be generic or not given. This is for a number of forum and legal reasons you need not know.

3. All dates will be incorrect or contradictory. I have no intention of providing anything approaching a usable picture of what my and my associates activities were when I was active, as that would get me shot, put in jail, or both, and probably give at least some of you the wrong idea.

4. I was given mod approval for this thread, and am attempting to reproduce the rules as accurately as possible. If I have missed anything, it is your responsibility to keep up with any later mod additions. I will only add to the op if I feel like it.

With that in mind, feel free to ask about how organized crime, with an emphasis on the Russian mafia, and an emphasis on the corporate end of things, is actually run. I will answer questions for as long as there is interest and whenever I have the time. If I miss you question, either repost it, or PM me and I will either answer it here or PM you an answer. Any private questions must abide by the rules I have laid down and any future rules the mods lay down that I missed or they will be ignored or reported by me.

Did you ever do work for or know anyone else who might have worked for politicians doing things like threatening reporters or rival politicians? How powerful has the Russian mafia become because of the Russian economy?

Is there a difference between a Compton street gang, MS13, and a mafia? The mafia is always portrayed as old men in suits, respectable people who just happen to be criminals, while MS13 type gangs are always portrayed as a bunch of illegal immigrants who listen to rap and "shoot niggas up becuz they be dissin mah boys" all the while throwing out gang signs.

Also hitmen. Hitmen are usually shown as associated with the mafia. Do they do stealth type stuff or not, because if they don't I am severely disappointed .

E: Also, what do you think the percent risks are of being jailed or killed?

drunken officeparty fucked around with this message at Jul 10, 2008 around 03:48

Ziir posted:

If you were really in the mafia, aren't you scared when you go around devoting your time to prevent other people from joining?

Being a former member puts me in the best position to try to keep people from joining actually. Alot of people from the old days owe me favors, or at the bare minimum are obligated by our mutual friends to not just shoot or beat me if I disrespect them, so I am in a prime position to work a deal when a kid screws up and gets in over his head. Sometimes I have to compromise and cross the line to get them out the hole they've dug for themselves, but people like me are in my experience safer than ordinary people, unless the ordinary people keep a high enough profile with the local cops that they'll be missed.

Ziir posted:

How does it compare to the movie The Godfather?

That depends. The Godfather was a different time, a different place, and a different mob. The Italians run things differently now. They're much less centralized, and are largely focused in unions, with an emphasis on cement and trash, and drugs. They aren't anywhere near as powerful as they used to be. The only people who have power in their home base even close to that are some of the Mexicans, some of the Colombians, and some of the Russians.

Ziir posted:

What did you do exactly when you were in the mafia?

I did a number of things. But that is a question dependent on time. When I first joined I was strictly a runner. I ran numbers, drugs, guns, the occasional diamond or some such, anything you could fit in a small bag and risk taking on a bus. Eventually I had enough cash to get myself a nice suit, a decent car, some good gloves and a kit. A kit is what I needed to move up to the next tier which for the outfit I was part of was hybrid bagman/enforcer. I split my time between handling troublesome dealers and middlemen, playing bodyguard or chauffeur, handling bodies, and guarding shipments in transit. I would say I spent about 30% with a pipe or a gun in my hand, 25% behind the wheel, 20% standing around, and 15% talking to people, and 5% handling cadavers. Getting to that point took two years. I spent the next 5 in that position, as a general work around man. I then upgraded to middle management. I arranged the shipments, of people, drugs, guns, diamonds, requested the occasional heist and basically did a lot of horribly immoral and illegal paperwork. I was instructed to, and carried out, the framing of 5 people for various crimes. That took up the last 2 years before I was flipped.

funkedpunk posted:

could you just describe a "normal" day for you while you were in the mafia?

Runner: Wake up. First thing was check my cell phone. The only thing they gave m was a cell phone. I paid for everything else. On it would be a time, a place, and a name. Sometimes, instructions, but usually we would have been introduced at an innocent occasion prior to the exchange. Find out the bus route. Get out there, make the exchange, call it in, and make the drop. Make the next exchange, and keep going till they're done with you for the day. Repeat till they give you some time off. Their are missing steps in that chain, but I'm not going to teach you how to make a drop, pick up or exchange.

Enforcer: Depending on what's needed, a lot of things. Usually, I got a call about somebody falling behind in their rent. This was code for somebody not meeting the expected over/under for their assigned area. I was expected to convince them to remedy the mistake. This usually involved violence. Without going into any great detail, yelling or extended beatings were not involved. You made on, quick and extremely painful act, and you had their complete attention. Then you could have a very civilized conversation. People very rarely pulled guns or fought back. You never got sent after people stupid enough to do that alone. Or you just pick somebody up. Or you drive a truck full of something incredibly illegal. Or you get the address of a warehouse, which means cadaver.

Middle Management: Be the person who makes the calls the previous two types of days are filled with. You get them from above or figure them out on your own, and then pass them out depending on who you feel you can depend on.

The key thing to remember in all of this is that any failure to produce the expected over/under comes out of your pocket. If you can't shake it out of the people under you, the people above you either flip you, or bury you alive. It's all about money. I was essentially a jittery accountant, then a violent accountant, then an accountant with a high probability of going to jail.

I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie, there is no system. The universe is indifferent.

Have you seen Eastern Promises and, if so, can you talk a little bit about how well it portrays members of the Russian mafia? If not, it's a great film independent of any relation to the mafia.

You might want to skip this one, but it seems like you have an excellent command of English. Are you a native Russian and did you grow up there? Are you helping youths resist getting involved in this stuff in Russia, or is it elsewhere?

Can you elaborate on what you mean by framing people for various crimes? Is this another way of saying that one of your jobs was to cover your group's tracks? I'm not well-read on how mafias work, but I didn't know that there were jobs dedicated to this sort of thing, although it does make sense to me in hindsight. I'm mostly curious about the mundane bureaucracy that you seem to suggest the Russian mafia possesses, and its importance.

And finally, how did Putin change things for the Russian mafia, if at all (tougher or easier to operate)?

Edit: Was it easy for you to get out? I would think that there would be people upset that you got out, considering the things you might know. Are you protected simply by the fact that you have, as you said, some mutual friends?

Electric Crayon posted:

Is it true that the Russian mafia is extremely ruthless in comparison to the other, more "established" organized crime branches established in America?

Also: Why do they love the Miami Beach area so much?

Yes and no. The Isreali's, who are often Russian mafia members but jewish and thus excluded from the regular mafia, are feared even more, But what makes the Russians exceptionally ruthless is not the violence but the willingness to turn members over to the police if the situation calls for it. They are exceptionally violent, but flipping the weakest link over to the cops is something you can get away with if you can pay your way out of the hole.

Miami beach because they can wear Hawaiian shirts without being able to call each other gay. And the weather.

Blueballs posted:

Did you ever do work for or know anyone else who might have worked for politicians doing things like threatening reporters or rival politicians? How powerful has the Russian mafia become because of the Russian economy?

Yes. The oil money helps, but the Russian Mafia is, and will probably always be more dependent on the contribution of people like Viktor Bout. The Petroleum profits get funneled up, and as legit as the mafioso are back home, they're paupers compared to the Russian ultra rich.

drunken officeparty posted:

Is there a difference between a Compton street gang, MS13, and a mafia? The mafia is always portrayed as old men in suits, respectable people who just happen to be criminals, while MS13 type gangs are always portrayed as a bunch of illegal immigrants who listen to rap and "shoot niggas up becuz they be dissin mah boys" all the while throwing out gang signs.

The difference between a mafia and a gang is scale, and funding. A gang is small, localized, and dependent on key people. A mafia is decentralized and has deep pockets. MS13 blurs the line and is moving towards mafia everyday. The thing to remember is that they all kill for the same reason in the end. Money. Respect is just another way of saying money. You need respect to earn it, and that's it. Money is what these people care about, and that's it. That and staying out of jail.

drunken officeparty posted:

Also hitmen. Hitmen are usually shown as associated with the mafia. Do they do stealth type stuff or not, because if they don't I am severely disappointed .

There are hitmen. Some of them are like you imagine them in most respects, but they all have unifying aspect. They are absolute sociopaths who would kill you for a penny if they felt like it. I'd say about 25% are actually independent, but in reality that isn't that many people as the hitman industry isn't terribly big. They don't competition, and you don't need very many if you've got good enforcers.

drunken officeparty posted:

E: Also, what do you think the percent risks are of being jailed or killed?

Roybot posted:

Could you elaborate on this? What opportunity?

I was picked out of the runner pool for promotion after I got my act together because I was smart and not Russian. This meant I could make it to middle management, but never become an underboss. That would make me an effective and loyal subordinate should he replace his current boss. The plan never fleshed out, but he worked on it and trained me best he could.

Roybot posted:

In your area, what business did your crew gain the most money from (guns, smuggling etc)?

Guns. We supplied a wide variety of firearms to virtually everyone in the area. We had strong military connections.

Roybot posted:

Have you ever killed anyone, or seen anyone get killed?

Yes, and yes.

Roybot posted:

Did you see the movie Eastern Promises? If, so, what was your opinion on it, and how accurate was it in terms of hierarchy and importance on tattoos?

That is a prison gang. I was in a military business crew. There are two very different kinds of Russian mobs. The prison gangs are more common, but the military/business crews are run more professionally, and tattoo wise generally only have unit tattoo's or drunken dare tattoo's.

Zcientista posted:

What are the biggest money-makers for the Russian mafia? How big are they in the US? On the West Coast (where I live)? What are the ladies like? I assume very attractive.

Guns, drugs or women. Bigger everyday. Bigger than anyone thinks on the West Coast. As for the women, the higher you get, the more attractive the women you have access get.

Coccidia posted:

I have no illusions of joining the mafia so dont take this the wrong way but . . .

I always got the impression the money was amazing. How much did you make and what determined how much you make(was it a percentage?) ? Do you know if your pay was fairly standard among gangs etc ?

The people at the top make a great deal of money, the people in the middle make middle class wages, the people at the bottom make minimum wage or below. And unless you are luck or at the top you probably won't make it out of the bottom or middle alive or unjailed.

h4x posted:

What do you mean when you say "flipped".

I was forced to turn over half of my group, and the stress pushed me over the edge of my severe congenital mental disabilities. I had a psychotic episode and was committed. While in they turned their file on me over to the FBI. I was approached and in return for an insanity plea and the remainder of my group along with a number of my remaining contacts. I was allowed to walk away by the men upstairs on condition of silence on certain aspects and names.

h4x posted:

You seem intelligent and coherent - how was your education and family life growing up?

I was borne to a very poor and violent and broken family. We're all very intelligent, but we don't function. As far as I could tell the mob was my only way out. I'm self educated, and I have no family life.

h4x posted:

What was the coolest moment ever (there had to be some good movie-esque times, right?).

A 15 man shootout where I didn't die.

h4x posted:

What was the scariest moment ever?

A 15 man shootout where I almost died.

h4x posted:

How much money would you say you made over the years?

I have a quarter of a million in rainy day money left over.

Zoo posted:

Have you seen Eastern Promises and, if so, can you talk a little bit about how well it portrays members of the Russian mafia? If not, it's a great film independent of any relation to the mafia.

From my experience with prison gangs, it was fairly accurate. They really are that unprofessional.

Zoo posted:

You might want to skip this one, but it seems like you have an excellent command of English. Are you a native Russian and did you grow up there? Are you helping youths resist getting involved in this stuff in Russia, or is it elsewhere?

I'm not a native Russian, and no native Russian would recognizer any of the "Russian" I speak.

Zoo posted:

Can you elaborate on what you mean by framing people for various crimes? Is this another way of saying that one of your jobs was to cover your group's tracks? I'm not well-read on how mafias work, but I didn't know that there were jobs dedicated to this sort of thing, although it does make sense to me in hindsight. I'm mostly curious about the mundane bureaucracy that you seem to suggest the Russian mafia possesses, and its importance.

Simply put, it was at certain times my job to arrange for it to appear that certain people might have appeared to have done certain things so that other people would not appear to have done said thing. The details are highly illegal, but extremely common.

Zoo posted:

And finally, how did Putin change things for the Russian mafia, if at all (tougher or easier to operate)?

Putin is a blessing of indescribable proportions to the mafia.

Zoo posted:

Edit: Was it easy for you to get out? I would think that there would be people upset that you got out, considering the things you might know. Are you protected simply by the fact that you have, as you said, some mutual friends?

How involved is the Russian mafia really in computer crimes, and carding (and various reshipping mule scams, getting Americans to reship stuff bought on stolen credit cards to Eastern Europe)? Are these types of crimes handled more by the unorganized prison gang mobs you talk about, or are they a small branch of a much larger organization?

I hate to break it to you, but there is no big lie, there is no system. The universe is indifferent.

Since it sounds like you didn't exactly volunteer to leave, how long do you think it would have taken you to get out if you hadn't been flipped or killed? Would you have? And I take it (by your tone) that you are glad now that you made it out.

Al Capwn posted:

How much control does the Russian Mafia have over Eastern European container ports? In order to clear a container, do I have to grease members who control the ports, or are the ports independent operations / too closely related to Government Customs to be controlled by the Mafia in that way.

Radd McCool posted:

Anything that, oddly enough, you'd only really learn in such a line of work that's actually quite useful in day to day life?

I can defend myself very easily. I'm also good with cars now.

Radd McCool posted:

Could you kill me with your thumbs? How would you do it? How else could you do it?

Yes. And with all of my other fingers. Just look it up. I don't intent to teach people how ti kill people.

Radd McCool posted:

How was Putin so helpful?

It has become impossible to get arrested in Russia if you have friends, and extradition for military mobsters is a non problem.

Radd McCool posted:

Any body-disposal anecdotes?

You have no idea how disgusting it is to dispose of a body until you've done it. Nothing comes close. It is an experience that really any sane person should avoid at all costs.

Dorkus posted:

How involved is the Russian mafia really in computer crimes, and carding (and various reshipping mule scams, getting Americans to reship stuff bought on stolen credit cards to Eastern Europe)? Are these types of crimes handled more by the unorganized prison gang mobs you talk about, or are they a small branch of a much larger organization?

The Russian Mafia that I was associated with didn't deal with computer crimes generally, but some do. Most do not from what I hear however.

Zoo posted:

Since it sounds like you didn't exactly volunteer to leave, how long do you think it would have taken you to get out if you hadn't been flipped or killed? Would you have? And I take it (by your tone) that you are glad now that you made it out.

I'd probably have been a lifer, but I wouldn't have died a natural death to say the least.

Al Capwn posted:

Why did you Join the mafia?

I thought it was the only way out.

Al Capwn posted:

What did you to get out of it?

See Above.

Al Capwn posted:

Do you feel paranoid?

I carry a gun and three knives. I'm always paranoid.

stratdax posted:

How much control does the Russian Mafia have over Eastern European container ports? In order to clear a container, do I have to grease members who control the ports, or are the ports independent operations / too closely related to Government Customs to be controlled by the Mafia in that way.

Control is too strong a word. But a cozy relationship certainly. At least with the local gangs who might control.

ashgromnies posted:

Did you operate in Russia or the US or elsewhere?

I went to a lot of different places and risked some very long jail terms. Connect the dots.

ashgromnies posted:

How did a non-Russian manage to fall into this, anyways? I was under the impression that it was something usually passed down through family lines. Did you live in a Russian neighborhood or something?

You elaborate on the difference between a gang and an actual mafia. Would you consider the Nortenos, Surenos (Which I know are part of a "Mexican Mafia" but maybe it's in name only), or say, Hells Angels mafia organizations? I get the impress that both the Nortenos and Surenos are so broken up into smaller gangs that they really aren't. On the Hells Angels I'm just very curious, since I know very little about them.

quote:

While in they turned their file on me over to the FBI. I was approached and in return for an insanity plea and the remainder of my group along with a number of my remaining contacts. I was allowed to walk away by the men upstairs on condition of silence on certain aspects and names.

Could you elaborate on this anymore than you have or clarify? Also, if you can, explain why even though you seem to have had good connections, why those above you still weren't furious enough to have you killed?

Are those stories about the russian mafia killing family members as a punishment true? If they are, is it common, or just a special case sort of thing? What kind of people are the higher-ups: ex-military, businessmen, self-made types who worked their way up the ranks?

Any advice on how to clean a car? I've got a few years worth of grime to remove from a vehicle's interior pretty soon. I feel like you may know some fast, effective methods to do this, as such knowledge would likely come in handy with clearing evidence off an auto's interior surfaces. Though I do imagine this mostly is an issue of simply preventing such evidence in the first place.

Ever come across something you would describe as 'upsettingly lethal?'

Dogless Liberal posted:

You elaborate on the difference between a gang and an actual mafia. Would you consider the Nortenos, Surenos (Which I know are part of a "Mexican Mafia" but maybe it's in name only), or say, Hells Angels mafia organizations? I get the impress that both the Nortenos and Surenos are so broken up into smaller gangs that they really aren't. On the Hells Angels I'm just very curious, since I know very little about them.

Hells Angel are a very large gang. The Mexican Mafia is a much like the Italian Mafia. A collections of smaller organizations.

Dogless Liberal posted:

Could you elaborate on this anymore than you have or clarify? Also, if you can, explain why even though you seem to have had good connections, why those above you still weren't furious enough to have you killed?

No as a matter of fact I can't. I left it vague and confusing intentionally.

Roger RamJet posted:

Any funny or amusing things happen? What are your fondest memories of being in a gang? Did your family know? What was your contact with non-mobsters like?

I think you're missing the point here. You don't really have fond memories. I beat people for a living. That's not something you look back on fondly once you get in a straight frame of mind.

cardgame posted:

Are those stories about the russian mafia killing family members as a punishment true? If they are, is it common, or just a special case sort of thing? What kind of people are the higher-ups: ex-military, businessmen, self-made types who worked their way up the ranks?

Radd McCool posted:

Any advice on how to clean a car? I've got a few years worth of grime to remove from a vehicle's interior pretty soon. I feel like you may know some fast, effective methods to do this, as such knowledge would likely come in handy with clearing evidence off an auto's interior surfaces. Though I do imagine this mostly is an issue of simply preventing such evidence in the first place.

Ever come across something you would describe as 'upsettingly lethal?'

This is the only question like this I'm going to answer. Ice pick. As for quick cleaning, we just dumped em in the nearest body of water or torched them. Dirty cars didn't merit cleaning.

Why are you posting this thread without fearing for your life? It's a good idea and all but you'd have to be sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that they wouldn't find you, get some information on you, and kill you.

Approximately how many politicians were on the mafia's payroll?

In terms of ruthlessness, where would you rank the Russian Mafia with regards to the Italian, Jewish, Japanese, and other mafias?