2chris2:The caisson is for those that are killed in action, all officers and some senior non-commissioned officers receive caisson and army full-honors funeral.

So every officer in the U.S. military is a hero?

No, every officer is part of a tradition started centuries ago that endures today. They're not heroes, just men and women who are accorded certain respects because tradition demands it. The officer has always been elevated above the average enlisted man. It's been that way for centuries and will no doubt continue until we see the end of war and the need for soldiers.

It was part of a three volley salute, which is the tradition for military and police funerals. This is not the same as a 21 gun salute, which is reserved for the President and other heads of state. In fact, there is a chart showing the number of salutes a person is entitled to based on their rank.

I'm not a jingoist. I'm not that guy who says "Murka, fark yeah!" or thinks that all servicemen are heroes. But there's something about the ceremony of burying our dead that gets me. I saw a film of the burial of a Marine and I farkin' cried. I didn't know the guy or how he died, but the respect given to him was amazing.

There's a scene in an early NCIS episode (Charles Durning was nominated for an Emmy, and he's a REAL WAR HERO), where they exhume a marine from WWII. Touching scene every time I see it.

It was part of a three volley salute, which is the tradition for military and police funerals. This is not the same as a 21 gun salute, which is reserved for the President and other heads of state. In fact, there is a chart showing the number of salutes a person is entitled to based on their rank.

I've walked behind one of those caissons, too recently and for someone far too young. The pageantry of the whole event was equal parts lovely and awful. No one thought to mention the gun salute to the KIA military member's MIL, who speaks no English and is wholly unfamiliar w/ American military customs. The volley rang out, she screamed and jumped, her daughter had to grab her by the shoulders to hold her down on her graveside chair. Luckily Marine One drifted along and was a nice, brief distraction to us all.Thank you, horses.Thank you, heroes.

Aquapope:I'm not a jingoist. I'm not that guy who says "Murka, fark yeah!" or thinks that all servicemen are heroes. But there's something about the ceremony of burying our dead that gets me. I saw a film of the burial of a Marine and I farkin' cried. I didn't know the guy or how he died, but the respect given to him was amazing.

There's a scene in an early NCIS episode (Charles Durning was nominated for an Emmy, and he's a REAL WAR HERO), where they exhume a marine from WWII. Touching scene every time I see it.

I know that episode of NCIS very well. I cry every time I see it. Can't help it, don't want to.

It was part of a three volley salute, which is the tradition for military and police funerals. This is not the same as a 21 gun salute, which is reserved for the President and other heads of state. In fact, there is a chart showing the number of salutes a person is entitled to based on their rank.

Also, rifles vs. cannons.

Correct, thank you for pointing that out. I believe the three volley is done with 3, 5, or 7 rifles, as opposed to a "salute," which is done with the specified number of artillery.

ThePea:I've walked behind one of those caissons, too recently and for someone far too young. The pageantry of the whole event was equal parts lovely and awful. No one thought to mention the gun salute to the KIA military member's MIL, who speaks no English and is wholly unfamiliar w/ American military customs. The volley rang out, she screamed and jumped, her daughter had to grab her by the shoulders to hold her down on her graveside chair. Luckily Marine One drifted along and was a nice, brief distraction to us all.Thank you, horses.Thank you, heroes.

What worries me is, they have had to begin implementing stricter entry requirements, because their current estimates have the cemetery reaching full capacity by 2030.

What irritates me is someone may not qualify to get a space there, that deserves it...but this guy gets a plot:

In accordance with the 1986 Title 32 Code of Federal Regulations Part 553, section 15, the following individuals are eligible for interment (ground burial) at Arlington National Cemetery:

Any active duty member of the Armed Forces (except those members serving on active duty for training only).Any retired member of the Armed Forces. A retired member of the Armed Forces, in the context of this paragraph, is a retired member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, or a Reserve component who has served on active duty (other than for training), is carried on an official retired list, and is entitled to receive retired pay stemming from service in the Armed Forces. If, at the time of death, a retired member of the Armed Forces is not entitled to receive retired pay stemming from his service in the Armed Forces until some future date, the retired member will not be eligible for ground burial.Any former member of the Armed Forces separated for physical disability prior to 1 October 1949 who has served on active duty (other than for training) and who would have been eligible for retirement under the provisions of 10 United States Code (U.S.C.) 1201 had that statute been in effect on the date of his separation.Any former member of the Armed Forces whose last active duty (other than for training) military service terminated honorably and who has been awarded one of the following decorations:Medal of HonorDistinguished Service Cross (Air Force Cross or Navy Cross)Distinguished Service MedalSilver StarPurple HeartPersons who have held any of the following positions provided their last period of active duty (other than for training) as a member of the Armed Forces terminated honorably:An elective office of the United States GovernmentOffice of the Chief Justice of the United States or of an Associate Justice of the Supreme Court of the United StatesAn office listed in 5 U.S.C. 5312 or 5 U.S.C. 5313The Chief of a mission who was at any time during his/her tenure classified in class I under the provisions of Section 411 of the Act of 13 August 1946, 60 Stat. 1002, as amended (22 U.S.C. 866, 1964 ed.)Any former prisoner of war who, while a prisoner of war, served honorably in the active military, naval, or air service, whose last period of active military, naval, or air service terminated honorably and who died on or after November 30, 1993.The term "former prisoner of war" means a person who, while serving in the active military, naval, or air service, was forcibly detained or interned in line of duty-By an enemy government or its agents, or a hostile force, during a period of war; orBy a foreign government or its agents, or a hostile force, under circumstances which the Secretary of Veterans Affairs finds to have been comparable to the circumstances under which persons have generally been forcibly detained or interned by enemy governments during periods of war.The term "active military, naval, or air service" includes active duty, any period of active duty for training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty, and any period of inactive duty training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died from an injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty.The spouse, widow or widower, minor child and, at the discretion of the Secretary of the Army, unmarried adult child of any of the persons listed above.The term "spouse" refers to a widow or widower of an eligible member, including the widow or widower of a member of the Armed Forces who was lost or buried at sea or officially determined to be permanently absent in a status of missing or missing in action. A surviving spouse who has remarried and whose remarriage is void, terminated by death, or dissolved by annulment or divorce by a court with basic authority to render such decrees regains eligibility for burial in Arlington National Cemetery unless it is determined that the decree of annulment or divorce was secured through fraud or collusion.An unmarried adult child may be interred in the same gravesite in which the parent has been or will be interred, provided that child was incapable of self-support up to the time of death because of physical or mental condition. At the time of death of an adult child, a request for interment will be submitted to the Executive Director, Army National Cemeteries Program, Arlington National Cemetery. The request must be accompanied by a notarized statement from an individual who has direct knowledge as to the marital status, degree of dependency of the deceased child, the name of that child's parent, and the military service upon which the burial is being requested. A certificate of a physician who has attended the decedent as to the nature and duration of the physical and/or mental disability must also accompany the request for interment.Widows or widowers of service members who are interred in Arlington National Cemetery as part of a group burial may be interred/inurned in the cemetery, but not in the same gravesite as the group burial.The surviving spouse, minor child, and, at the discretion of the Secretary of the Army, an unmarried adult dependent child of any person already buried in Arlington. (Army Regulation 290-5 defines an adult dependent child as an adult permanently incapable of self-support because of physical or mental disability incurred before age 21.)The parents of a minor child or unmarried adult dependent child whose remains, based on the eligibility of a parent, are already buried in Arlington National Cemetery. (Army Regulation 290-5 defines an adult dependent child as an adult permanently incapable of self-support because of physical or mental disability incurred before age 21.)

"An average of 1,800 veterans die each day, and 10 percent of them are buried in the country's 125 national cemeteries, which are expected to set a record with 107,000 interments, including dependents, this year. And more national cemeteries are being built.

"The peak year for veterans' deaths will be 2007 or 2008, Tuerk said. An estimated 686,000 veterans died in 2007. Although many World War II veterans are dying, so are an increased number of Korean War and Vietnam veterans."

So if 10% make it into a natl. cemetery, about 69,000 vets went there in 2007.

UNC_Samurai:What irritates me is someone may not qualify to get a space there, that deserves it...but this guy gets a plot:

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 640x603]

He's misunderstood. McNamara made a pretty convincing argument that his role was to advise the president, but since the president is elected he represents the will of the people and by appointment would ultimately carry out the orders he was given.

Tapes show he advised Kennedy to withdraw from Vietnam in 1963 and then later Johnson was complaining to McNamara about how he used to make talk about withdrawal and sounding like a loser to Kennedy. Also, the whole Gulf of Tonkin incident was basically the Navy brass bumbling around with mixed information, no doubt about that... I think.

sat1va:UNC_Samurai:What irritates me is someone may not qualify to get a space there, that deserves it...but this guy gets a plot:

[farm9.staticflickr.com image 640x603]

He's misunderstood. McNamara made a pretty convincing argument that his role was to advise the president, but since the president is elected he represents the will of the people and by appointment would ultimately carry out the orders he was given.

Tapes show he advised Kennedy to withdraw from Vietnam in 1963 and then later Johnson was complaining to McNamara about how he used to make talk about withdrawal and sounding like a loser to Kennedy. Also, the whole Gulf of Tonkin incident was basically the Navy brass bumbling around with mixed information, no doubt about that... I think.

A lot of people think McNamara is a son of a biatch.

He also probably saved millions of lives with the insistence on automobile safety and the introduction of the seat belt and non-impaling steering wheel while at Ford.

McNamara was a very complex and complicated person, no doubt. He was the wrong person to be handling Vietnam, I will say that--I'll also observe that even though it was decades too late, he was the only member of any administration involved to say he was wrong about Vietnam.

I don't know if I could do that. Remaining somber that long and that often would wear on me....

I lucked into a short trip to DC in 2011 when Lordfortuna had to attend a training session for a few days; he had a college car to get there and was reimbursed for hotel and had a food allowance, so for $40 of my own money I was able to play tourist for three days. Arlington was the first stop on my last day, and I had no idea how big the place was, or how much it would affect me. Ended up spending a big chunk of the day there, and was pretty emotional the whole time. The weather was beautiful though.

when clinton was appointing pals to get buried there,we would march to the graves, and do the ceremonies with our nuts hanging out."hey, the horse is winking at you"!- off-post soldiers funeral where the taps player was too drunk and forgot his mouthpiecehe stood at the top of the hill with the van behind him playing taps from a cassette- the black family that didn't want white guys carrying the casket, they fell in the wet grass and it slid down a long incline- doing mr. Miyagi's fake funeral- the cheap casket where the embalming fluid soaked through. The bottom started to open and the body was sliding out..kicking the arm back in as we put it down.- standing at the tomb demanding some idiot get their baby away from the mat

natas6.0:when clinton was appointing pals to get buried there,we would march to the graves, and do the ceremonies with our nuts hanging out."hey, the horse is winking at you"!- off-post soldiers funeral where the taps player was too drunk and forgot his mouthpiecehe stood at the top of the hill with the van behind him playing taps from a cassette- the black family that didn't want white guys carrying the casket, they fell in the wet grass and it slid down a long incline- doing mr. Miyagi's fake funeral- the cheap casket where the embalming fluid soaked through. The bottom started to open and the body was sliding out..kicking the arm back in as we put it down.- standing at the tomb demanding some idiot get their baby away from the mat

ladyfortuna:cuzsis: JosephFinn: Up to eight full-honors funerals a day? Wow.

Yeah...

I don't know if I could do that. Remaining somber that long and that often would wear on me....

I lucked into a short trip to DC in 2011 when Lordfortuna had to attend a training session for a few days; he had a college car to get there and was reimbursed for hotel and had a food allowance, so for $40 of my own money I was able to play tourist for three days. Arlington was the first stop on my last day, and I had no idea how big the place was, or how much it would affect me. Ended up spending a big chunk of the day there, and was pretty emotional the whole time. The weather was beautiful though.

Glad you enjoyed them. I never deployed, but being prior service, you feel an extra weight while walking around there. The first two are of the Women's Memorial, which I didn't even KNOW about, and I was lucky enough to meet the female general who spearheaded the display areas behind it. I'll never forget that day...