But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.

That should NEVER be a consideration. When the law is broken those tasked with investigating and charging should NEVER give any consideration to how long the process will take. Only consideration should be "was the law broken or not". If so, investigate and file charges. The rest is up to the Courts.

EVERY denial should at least get a cursory review to determine if it was a legitimate error or more sinister. The rest should go directly into a deeper investigation. Prosecute the intentional deception and penalize the entities that provided inadequate or incorrect information.

Way too much "so what, what are they going to do to us" attitude among reporting agencies.

_________________"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"For he to-day that sheds his blood with meShall be my brother" - William Shakespeare

But my point about why we don't have the data on the effectiveness of OSP's work is that IF someone is prosecuted, it could take a long time for a final disposition to happen. I agree it should be followed up on, but getting from an investigation to a conviction is always a wandering path. I've worked on homicide cases where we've had unassailable physical evidence (gun with perp prints and DNA and blowback DNA from victim) and the cases take years.

So it is early days yet, but letting people walk without even investigating what is going on, is NOT ok.

That should NEVER be a consideration. When the law is broken those tasked with investigating and charging should NEVER give any consideration to how long the process will take. Only consideration should be "was the law broken or not". If so, investigate and file charges. The rest is up to the Courts.

EVERY denial should at least get a cursory review to determine if it was a legitimate error or more sinister. The rest should go directly into a deeper investigation. Prosecute the intentional deception and penalize the entities that provided inadequate or incorrect information.

Way too much "so what, what are they going to do to us" attitude among reporting agencies.

You're confusing two different issues.

My comments above relate to a request for stats that show effectiveness of the OSP program in terms of convictions. Re-read my first sentence.Early days for that.

I agree with you that if someone is convicted the data should promptly be submitted to the NICS by the local agency.

I would love to know how many slip through the cracks? That is the whole point of a known felon filling out the form isn't it?

What is your definition of slipping through the cracks?

Lied on form and got a proceed?Denied and not investigated?Lied, denied and not investigated?

Simple, felon gets a gun. That can be from lying and getting a proceed or lying and getting past the ten days or whatever it is. Then they get to pick up the gun without a proceed. Mainly the latter. I don't imagine too many felons get a proceed.

_________________"I'm Hub McCann. I've fought in two World Wars and countless smaller ones on three continents. I led thousands of men into battle with everything from horses and swords to artillery and TANKS! I've seen the headwaters of the Nile, and tribes of natives no white man had ever seen before. I've won and lost a dozen fortunes, KILLED MANY MEN! And loved only one woman, with a passion a FLEA like you could never begin to understand. That's who I am. NOW, GO HOME, BOY!"

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones". Albert Einstein 1947

I agree with you that if someone is convicted the data should promptly be submitted to the NICS by the local agency.

Can you explain why it isn't being done promptly? Didn't we recently discuss a "backlog" of entries to the NICS recently? Perhaps the NICS should adopt the same system Auto Insurance Companies use. Get a ticket and it seems like they have a notice of premium increase or cancellation in the mail in a matter of days (well perhaps a bit of an exaggeration) while we read more and more accounts of how delayed reporting has allowed one to slip through the cracks due to reporting lag.

Seems to me that any agency that delays gives up their right criticize a system that lets felons obtain firearms even by lying on the 4473. Same for those who have DV TRO's against them.

_________________"I've learned from the Dog that an afternoon nap is a good thing"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"For he to-day that sheds his blood with meShall be my brother" - William Shakespeare

It takes months to get the results back from the FBI when a person appeals a wrongful denial. How will the state investigate it? They can do the state criminal and mental health checks, but will they be able to do the federal checks? Sometimes the only difference between a wrongful denial and a proceed is a set of fingerprints. That could be easy. But will the state patrol arrest the person during the check? Will that person lose their job if they have a security clearance or work someplace that requires a clean record like security or childcare workers... they do fingerprints for those so the chances of a false denial are much lower than the name and DOB based check that is NICS. Like the intelligence officer who was a victim of identity theft. Everything matches a criminal record because it was his information the criminal used... only fingerprints showed he was a different person when he did his UPIN... and fingerprints and a person knocking on doors when he got is TS-SCI. Or the lady who received a denial because her married name matched a criminal who was from the same city... a very strange coincidence. How will the state figure out the guy who has his CPL and received several proceeds before getting a denial, that was then overturned, got a proceed for his next purchase, then another denial? Because a court in PA was fucked up and never took something off his record that wasn't supposed to be there. Will the WSP get these all done overnight at the latest? Or will the guy who owns a security company have to go bankrupt because he's under investigation for something he didn't do?

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