All I can say is when they come out with Blizz All-Stars I will play it. I already play LoL, but a MOBA by Blizz is something I'd be interested in trying.

Basically I don't think you can say "this market is oversaturated", because look at the MMO market...I would have called it oversaturated years ago, and yet here we are in 2013 and there are STILL big MMOs coming out (Elder Scrolls Online), and probably a bunch of smaller ones I don't even know about. I think there's definitely space for Blizz All-Stars...it's not going to earn as much as their other franchises, but it's still going to earn a lot.

Given that as of a few years ago, Valve was valuated around $3 billion by analysts (with Gaben being worth roughly $1.5 billion of that), I think we can safely assume that they haven't run out of money, and aren't going to run out of it any time soon.

Between revenue from their own game sales, and the insane amount of money they're making from Steam, I'd be hard pressed to come up with a reasonable scenario that has led Valve to run out of money.

DotA2 has a lot of work done for them already, i.e. Ability and Character/Environment Design, they've obviously made changes and updated the engine/visuals but the framework of the game was already there. I doubt they are over-budget, selling things in a cash shop is a staple for a f2p game.

If blizzard did exactly what Valve is doing with DotA2 and sold early access to Blizzard All-stars, the amount of shit they would get for being greedy would be enough to fill the Atlantic. It's a strange phenomena to say the least.

Either way your post was answered with the the first and second reply OP. I think we are done here.

"Dear your holiness, your army is safe and sound, they're down here dying for you."

Well i know that i will love to play BAS (Blizzard All-star) with my friends, and when it comes out, i will say "THESE IS BETTER THAN X BUT WORSE THAN Y" or "THESE IS THE BEST MOBA GAME EVER!" or "THESE GAME SUCKS!" so for the moment... i don't know, BTW i hope Blizzard say something about BAS in the next Blizzcon

There is still a budget. If they exceed that budget... there is still a decision that needs to be made... take more equity out of the company or finance by other means.

If they can charge for a game that is supposed to be f2p and give out some relatively cheap to produce bonuses, rather than take money out of their pockets then i'm sure thats what was done.

If it turns out they don't get enough revenue from those sales to satisfy their budget needs they can always revisit dipping into the company piggy bank.

You make the most nonsensical argument for a company like Valve that I've ever seen. If you think Valve would micromanage budgets and not be willing to expand the budget for a game if it were to go over...I'm not sure what to think.

At this point, if anyone buys the game that's their choice. There are so many extra keys floating about (I have 6 that I can't give away because I've yet to find a single person that has any interest in the game and doesn't already have one) that you don't need to buy one. I agree it's strange that they still charge for the game in the store, but assuming that has to do with budgets for a company like Valve is ludicrous. That's like assuming that because Blizzard charges for account services that other games provide for free (Rift provides free server transfers), that they are somehow in dire need of funding (which isn't true at all).

You make the most nonsensical argument for a company like Valve that I've ever seen. If you think Valve would micromanage budgets and not be willing to expand the budget for a game if it were to go over...I'm not sure what to think.

At this point, if anyone buys the game that's their choice. There are so many extra keys floating about (I have 6 that I can't give away because I've yet to find a single person that has any interest in the game and doesn't already have one) that you don't need to buy one. I agree it's strange that they still charge for the game in the store, but assuming that has to do with budgets for a company like Valve is ludicrous. That's like assuming that because Blizzard charges for account services that other games provide for free (Rift provides free server transfers), that they are somehow in dire need of funding (which isn't true at all).

its kind of a starter pack aswell with items added to it so its not just for access alone.

You make the most nonsensical argument for a company like Valve that I've ever seen. If you think Valve would micromanage budgets and not be willing to expand the budget for a game if it were to go over...I'm not sure what to think.

At this point, if anyone buys the game that's their choice. There are so many extra keys floating about (I have 6 that I can't give away because I've yet to find a single person that has any interest in the game and doesn't already have one) that you don't need to buy one. I agree it's strange that they still charge for the game in the store, but assuming that has to do with budgets for a company like Valve is ludicrous. That's like assuming that because Blizzard charges for account services that other games provide for free (Rift provides free server transfers), that they are somehow in dire need of funding (which isn't true at all).

And for you to suggest that just because valve has lots of money that the budget for DotA is virtually limitless, is just as ridiculous. Their R&D costs need to be less than the projected revenue or the game isn't going to be profitable.

The bulk of Valve's revenue (according to analysts) comes from Steam. Valve doesn't have stockholders but it still has investors.

There can be various reasons why (in some years) they want their income to appear to be less, but as a general rule for business you want your revenue and income to be growing. If DotA DID go over budget they would need/want to keep funding it (obviously) but that could/can mean that they would need to cut into a year or 2 worth of profit (which isn't a bad thing it happens for most companies developing product) but IF for whatever reason they DIDN'T want to show a reduction in the years income they may explore OTHER options.

You guys need to stop being so damn defensive for a minute your twisting my words and making it seem like I'm saying your favorite company is struggling... I'm not.

But while you think I'm "so ridiculous" you haven't presented another possibility as to why they would offer an option to pay for something that is supposed to be free and most people can still get for free if they just find someone.

But DotA 2 is supposed to be F2P... the fact that they are having you pay for early access, means they ran out of money for development.

Me not liking the product isn't really a factor here... I hope it does well and they can be profitable, it sucks when projects like these flop despite all the hard work.

Such a fallacy, it isn't even funny. They charge money for early access so they must be broke? Really? How about, they charge money for early access because people will pay and they will make more cash. Even suggesting Valve doesn't have enough funds is so ludicrous I cannot even describeit.

Such a fallacy, it isn't even funny. They charge money for early access so they must be broke? Really? How about, they charge money for early access because people will pay and they will make more cash. Even suggesting Valve doesn't have enough funds is so ludicrous I cannot even describeit.

I will try it as I have tried all the MOBA's and a Blizzard game is always welcome, they produce nothing but highly crafted content. Also for the person saying more people play LoL then dota, that is just wrong. The exact number of dota players is exactly known because of bootleg copies and such but the amount of bootleg copies played in China alone is around the LoL numbers IIRC, and with valve preparing for a china port (March 15th again IIRC) I expect Dota 2 to blow up massively this year when they finally release it FTP fully.

Originally Posted by Xarim

It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

If they are unknown... then the market isn't saturated. Also being that the leader in the genre is only a few years old. There is plenty of opportunity here.

Me not liking the games may not have any bearing on whether the market is saturated.

But having a few titles out there in a given genre, with only 1 having decent success, doesn't make the market saturated.

In fact its the complete opposite, its an opportunity to release a superior competing product.

Blizzard had all the keys to make a successful standalone moba game from Dota for years but they didn't use them. Now
everyone have all the skins and items in LoL and Dota 2 and won't just jump into Blizzard-All-stars and abandon everything
from their previous mobas.

Getting new players to the moba genre will be extremely difficult. I think Riot has managed to hog vast majority of them and
I the ones that are starting now are basically recruited by friends who are already playing LoL or Dota 2.

You have zero information on dota 2's revenue stream beyond what they are charging for access and what is available through the store. Which still only gives you a cost to the customer and doesn't include their expenses or how much of a given product people are purchasing.

Such a fallacy, it isn't even funny. They charge money for early access so they must be broke? Really? How about, they charge money for early access because people will pay and they will make more cash. Even suggesting Valve doesn't have enough funds is so ludicrous I cannot even describeit.

Once again... You need to stop being so defensive.

I didn't say "valve" didn't have the funds. I said they PROBABLY went over the budget that they allocated for development.

Developers: "we need more money!"
Valve: "hold up how far along are you?"
Developers: "we have this, this and this done"
Valve: "we'll give people a little bonus skin and heroes unlocked and charge em for early access and open up the store"
"We'll see where you're at after that"

I never said they were broke... Stop twisting my words and use your reading comprehension skills..

---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 10:50 AM ----------

Originally Posted by edgecrusher

He never said Dota2 made a billion. He implied Steam made an estimated $1 billion in 2010, which was before Dota2 or the TF2 marketplace made it out.

You have zero information about their revenue stream as well, yet are claiming that they're under budget constraints. This is all speculation based on limited information, on all sides.

Over *fixed*

You need to come off your high horse for a second...

Because I've made it very clear that both sides don't have access to that information, and have also attempted to clarify that it is ALSO speculation on my part.

Also, you have yet to pose an alternative possible reason. (No one has)

And being the fan that your bias posts clearly suggest, you wouldn't dare go to the most obvious defense which is that they are greedy.

Feel free to abuse your power and close the thread at anytime.

Feel free to abuse it even further by giving me an unwarranted ban... Because I've taken screen shots in anticipation for my appeal.