Everyone seems to agree that it's fine - as long as it doesn't require any proprietary dependencies.

Will switch from MySQL to LMDB as the backend.

It does *not* supercede the existing wallet-rpc application.

Jaquee has started integrations with the GUI and this proposed MyMonero open backend.

This may also allow for the MyMonero 13 word seed to be supported natively.

Next meeting is scheduled for May 21st, 2017.

Full Log[]

<fluffypony> 1. Greetings
<fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
<fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
<fluffypony> 4. MyMonero-in-tree discussion
<fluffypony> 5. Any additional meeting items
<fluffypony> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<fluffypony> so let's start with 1. Greetings (aka roll call)
<fluffypony> hi
<_Slack> <johnalan> hi
<vtnerd_> present
<_Slack> <sgp_> hello!
<fluffypony> tewinget apologises, he'll be late
<_Slack> <ajs> Sup
<endogenic> o/
<_Slack> <rehrar> Yo
<fluffypony> hyc / luigi1111 / ArticMine / othe / smooth / anonimal / binaryFate / dEBRUYNE / dnaleor / gingeropolous / iDunk / IPGlider / Jaquee / jwinterm / kenshi84 / knaccc / luigi1112 / luigi1115 / NoodleDoodle / papa_lazzarou / pigeons / RedLion[m] / redlion_
<Jaquee> hhelo
<pigeons> :)
<vtnerd_> also me
<Jaquee> medusa_
<fluffypony> anyone I forgot
<iDunk> o/
<vtnerd_> oh those are not present whoops
<fluffypony> lol vtnerd_
<fluffypony> ok so
<fluffypony> 2. Brief review of what's been completed since the previous meeting
<fluffypony> merged a bunch PRs
<fluffypony> kenshi84's GPG key changed
<fluffypony> I've confirmed it via sidechannel
<fluffypony> we have a new sweep_below function in the CLI, which you may find useful
<fluffypony> we also have a new heavier bias in output selection towards newer outputs
<fluffypony> moneromooo can fill us in on that
<ArticMine> Hi
<othe> oi
<fluffypony> smart mining is enabled in the GUI
<fluffypony> as in the selection box
<moneromooo> Hmm, I just twiddled the settings for the recent output selection, really. To match some data in the Miller et al paper.
<fluffypony> which is pretty cool
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<_Slack> <sgp_> indeed
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<fluffypony> also Jaquee has done some work on getting iOS back on track after it borked (visually)
<fluffypony> well iOS / mobile
<fluffypony> which brings us to
<fluffypony> 3. Code + ticket discussion / Q & A
<Jaquee> yes. and there's some new translations added to gui
<fluffypony> we have a number of open PRs
<fluffypony> when tewinget is off his bus he can update us on 0MQ
<fluffypony> which I'd REALLY like to move forward with ASAP
<fluffypony> it's been sitting in a holding pattern for ages
<fluffypony> Snipa: also if you're around maybe you can update us on the testing on that ?
<moneromooo> I'd like it to be optional, so it can be merged (and thus tested), without causing massive breakage if it does break.
<fluffypony> afaik that was the case
<Jaquee> sounds like a good idea
<fluffypony> also disposable addresses is still hanging around - I think that's pending a review from one of the luigis?
<moneromooo> AFAIK yes. Also RandomRun had an idea to make it better.
<fluffypony> I don't think there's a problem with that hanging around and being improved
<fluffypony> as long as the parallel MRL write-up is there
<fluffypony> I'd like to discuss 1998
<fluffypony> the PR, not the year
<fluffypony> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/1998
<fluffypony> at this point in time I'm still swaying towards prevent-user-stupidity-by-default
<fluffypony> at the slight inconvenience for a power user / sysadmin who might go "omg really" and then add the flag
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<fluffypony> I know vtnerd_ feels the same way, which is why he added it in the first place
<fluffypony> I'd be interested in strong arguments for removing the flag
<Jaquee> wouldnt a text disclaimer be enough?
<Jaquee> i don't have a strong opinion
<fluffypony> Jaquee: if you try bind externally and start it without the --confirm-external-bind flag then it refuses to start
<fluffypony> and it tells you why
<Jaquee> ok. apparently hyc started the discussion. Are you around?
<fluffypony> I know hyc doesn't like it
<fluffypony> vtnerd_: has anyone else expressed disdain for it?
<vtnerd_> AFAIK, just the people on that PR and the one referenced
<vtnerd_> and _possibly_ one person in IRC, but they seemed to be questioning why it was necessary (I think)
<vtnerd_> its somewhat low effort to get around it, so most people just add the flag I thnk
<vtnerd_> no one has privately contacted me about it for any reason if that was the question
<fluffypony> ok
<fluffypony> unless hyc comes in I move to close the PR, we can always re-open it later
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<Jaquee> ok with me
<fluffypony> ok next PR for discussion is 2011
<fluffypony> moneromooo had concerns that it was touching consensus critical issues
<fluffypony> so/issues/part of the code
<moneromooo> Yes, but it turns out it's actually bypassed when a tx comes from a block. The patch is fine.
<moneromooo> I OK'd it since.
<fluffypony> ah ok'
<moneromooo> Well, wait.
* fluffypony stops...hammer time
<moneromooo> It's really uneeded (only the wallet bit was wanted). But it's not forkworthy. That said...
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<moneromooo> Older wallets *might* create txes which aren't relayed by newer daemons.
<moneromooo> That's fairly unlikely, since my code targets 2/3 of max size, but the size approximation is not very precise.
<moneromooo> That said, I think it's fine to merge.
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<hyc> hey. just popped in. reading history
<fluffypony> hi hyc !
<dEBRUYNE> Re: 2011, perhaps it also should be dependent on the fee priority level used
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<monero> [monero] moneromooo-monero opened pull request #2017: wallet2: fix sweep_unmixable assuming wrong minimum mixin at v5 (master...suv5) https://git.io/v9wdD
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<hyc> ok, if n0b0dy else cares about that external bind thing then whatever. to me it's redundant
<fluffypony> ok
<hyc> since you had to explicitly request a non-localhost address already
<fluffypony> sure, but you'd be surprised how few people know that 0.0.0.0 exposes everything :-P
<endogenic> ^
<hyc> it d0esn't protect against typos/accidents. it only pisses off people who expect the computer to do as it's told
<fluffypony> hyc: view it like a weak password warning
<fluffypony> you can't just expect the computer to accept 1234 as a password
<hyc> yeah, ok...
<moneromooo> Well, I would...
<fluffypony> lol
<fluffypony> moneromooo is the exception to every rule :-P
<fluffypony> now on the GUI side, the only thing I wanted to bounce around is 688
<fluffypony> tooltips are fine, but if we're going to do some sort of unified help then I would veer towards an overlay that shows once the first time you enter a screen, and can be re-called by clicking the [?] button on the taskbar
<fluffypony> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c1/e1/bf/c1e1bfd7fb2770f6745d95af8bf89865.jpg
<_Slack> <johnalan> like that style
<fluffypony> https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/43/6e/74/436e746b35142f41d5f9bb8e765963e4.jpg
<fluffypony> http://eyeviewportal.com/_filecache/b38/73d/85-cropped-w545-h409-of-1-FFFFFF-ev_appguiguide_contentimage_002.jpg
<fluffypony> like that
<hyc> sounds good
<_Slack> <johnalan> :+1:
<Jaquee> problem is [?] is not around if you use native title bar
<fluffypony> Jaquee: where else could we add a help button? bottom left?
<endogenic> one suggestion i'd make for that is to make it c lear to the user they can recall it easily by doing "X" so that they don't fret about having to memorize everything before it's closed
<endogenic> recall it -> the help screen
<Jaquee> i think ^ is good as a start
<moneromooo> Where is it on the title bar then, since it's not a WM thing ?
<fluffypony> endogenic: agreed
<moneromooo> s/Where/Why/
<Jaquee> but some buttons could need longer desriptions
<Jaquee> like sweep_unmixable and payment_id for example
<fluffypony> Jaquee: there's enough space in the help overlay, we can use a smaller font to explain them
<redlion_> how breadwallet on ios handles it when setting up is quite good
<fluffypony> or move the help to somewhere where there's space
<fluffypony> and use an arrow
<Jaquee> yeah. we could find a place for that help button
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<fluffypony> ok - any other PRs that need discussion or can we move on? there's general Q&A shortly
<_Slack> <sgp_> I'd like to merge 261 on monero-site
<fluffypony> sgp_: there's a website meeting after the Kovri one
<fluffypony> so we can discuss it then
<_Slack> <sgp_> ok
<fluffypony> ok so
<fluffypony> 4. MyMonero-in-tree discussion
<fluffypony> so basically this is about nose-covering and making sure I'm not abusing my position as a maintainer and member of the Monero Core Team
<fluffypony> currently MyMonero has a working API (largely unspecced to be sure), two client implementations (website and app), two server implementations (the live backend and OpenMonero), with a third one coming
<fluffypony> I'd like to make sure there is general acceptance and buy-in that the API can be implemented as the general API for lightweight wallets (ie. wallet that use remote viewkey scanning)
<hyc> is it carved in stone now
<hyc> if we need to tweak it we can still do that?
<redlion_> is the license unrestricted?
<fluffypony> and that MyMonero-written or MyMonero-derived code is generally acceptable to be merged into the source tree (ie. the open-source backend implementation that vtnerd_ is working on)
<fluffypony> redlion_: BSD 3-clause
<fluffypony> hyc: as long as mWo12 changes it, and we match the changes in the live backend and the new backend then yse
<fluffypony> yes
<fluffypony> we can make any changes, and we WILL make changes to make it smarter
<moneromooo> If it's beneficial to monero and it works fully by itself without needing proprietary gunk, then I'm OK with it.
<fluffypony> eg. tx history comes in raw, instead of paginated
<fluffypony> so that needs to change
<hyc> +1 moneromooo
<fluffypony> moneromooo: yeah the new backend will use LMDB instead of mysql
<fluffypony> so it will be unencumbered in the source
<ArticMine> As long as there are no proprietary dependencies I am fine
<hyc> I like it even more now ;)
<_Slack> <johnalan> I think it beneficial too
<moneromooo> Maybe a separate repo (similar to monero-core) might be best, but that's details.
<_Slack> <johnalan> *its
<moneromooo> it's
<iDunk> it's
<_Slack> <jollymort> can't wait to run a mymonero node myself!
<vtnerd_> also the current "primary" wrapper around the DB is actually C, so theres that for you guys
<fluffypony> moneromooo: I thought about that, but it's a single daemon that *should* exist in the repo alongside the wallet RPC etc.
<hyc> doesn't it supersede wallet-rpc?
<fluffypony> now
<fluffypony> hyc: no
<fluffypony> wallet-rpc is good for integration, this isn't
<_Slack> <johnalan> there is obviously an element of centralisation, but it’s nearly impossible to avoid
<fluffypony> also on this topic
<fluffypony> Jaquee has begun working on client integration in the CLI and GUI
<moneromooo> "client integration" ?
<vtnerd_> you mean for light-wallets?
<fluffypony> that will mean that both CLI and GUI will be able to run in lightweight / remote-scanner / MyMonero mode
<fluffypony> moneromooo: as opposed to implementing the server protocol
<hyc> sounds good
<moneromooo> Oh, mymonero client integration ?
<fluffypony> moneromooo: let's call it something else
<moneromooo> That went pretty damn fast :D
<fluffypony> "lightweight wallet"
<_Slack> <jollymort> it's not really centralization if any `monerod` acts as a server
<hyc> but I'm still missing why we need old wallet-rpc if this mymonero api exists
<_Slack> <jollymort> it's literally my monero :)
<fluffypony> hyc: wallet-rpc is completely different
<_Slack> <johnalan> so the core GUI will be able to interact with MyMonero backend too?
<vtnerd_> for people that want to run VPS node but keep their viewkey ?
<moneromooo> Yes, would be nice to see what bits are needed where, and the actual API (even if roughly).
<fluffypony> it provides an API for integrators
<fluffypony> @johnalan yes
<fluffypony> so basically
<_Slack> <johnalan> is this needed with the MyMonero Desktop wallet?
<ArticMine> With what as the backed / server
<moneromooo> That can be posted later though, :49 now.
<ArticMine> monerod?
<fluffypony> lightweight wallets will have 3 server options:
<fluffypony> 1. OpenMonero
<fluffypony> 2. the new in-source backend that vtnerd_ is working on
<fluffypony> 3. the live MyMonero backend
<fluffypony> it will also have multiple client options:
<hyc> afaik the main difference btw an ordinary wallet and mymomero is you tell mymonero your viewkey
<fluffypony> 1. OpenMonero's web wallet (clone of the current MyMonero web wallet)
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<hyc> and the ordinary wallet has all your keys
<fluffypony> 2. the MyMonero applications
<fluffypony> 3. monero-wallet-cli
<fluffypony> 4. monero-wallet-rpc
<fluffypony> 5. the Monero GUI
<fluffypony> hyc: monero-wallet-rpc can still use this on the backend
<fluffypony> so it's unrelated
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<hyc> ok
<ArticMine> ok
<_Slack> <jollymort> about #2011 - you could modify it to (median)+0.6% for it to be mine-worthy, or even have the wallet check for fee setting and then it would be matched like 1: +0.6%, 2: +2.4%, 3: +12%, 4:+100%
<fluffypony> also this will mean that the GUI / CLI may end up supporting the MyMonero 13-word seed derivation by virtue of the integration effort
<fluffypony> does anyone have a fundamental issue with that ?
<ArticMine> no
<fluffypony> I mean, I do, because I don't want to be abusing my position, but it is what it is :-P
<_Slack> <jollymort> didn't you deprecate 13-word?
<moneromooo> Did you not say the 13 word seed was going to be obsoleted ?
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<endogenic> jollymort: working on it
<_Slack> <johnalan> no
<endogenic> but client still needs to be able to read 'em
<redlion_> electrum/mycelium support a few different seed lengths iirc
<redlion_> works well
<_Slack> <jollymort> also luigi was playing around with an idea for 17-word, integrating creation height in it etc
<fluffypony> moneromooo: it's import only
<fluffypony> not create
<endogenic> https://github.com/mymonero/mymonero-app-js/issues/77
<knaccc> doesn't it put a huge load on mymonero when someone asks it to scan the blockchain from zero with their view key? How long does mymonero take to scan the entire blockchain?
<moneromooo> Anyway, I'm fine with that as presented.
<hyc> that all sounds like a win to me. people have been whining about not being able to import their 13-word seed into regular CLI wallet
<shuan_nelson_> so monero-wallet-cli/monero GUI will not be able to create light-wallets?
<fluffypony> knaccc: yes it does - about 10 minutes
<_Slack> <jollymort> yeah import only sounds lovely
<ArticMine> If we are setting the stage for a competitive market based upon FLOSS then I am fine with it
<vtnerd_> I do have the ASM code working, so hopefully that will tighten up some too (altough there is something else blocking that)
<fluffypony> shuan_nelson_: yes they will
<fluffypony> but with 25 word seed, not 13
<fluffypony> we have 7 minutes left - so I'd like to move on to the last item
<shuan_nelson_> awesome!
<fluffypony> we can discuss MyMonero more after the meeting
<redlion_> @shaun_nelson, I think it's just that the CLI/GUI won't create 13-word seeds, but will accept already created ones
<hyc> yeah sounds fine
<fluffypony> 5. Any additional meeting items
<knaccc> 10 mins is quite a speedup vs downloading the entire blockchain, so sounds awesome.
<_Slack> <jollymort> any thoughts on future of penalty/blocksize? i kind of left the research open-ended
<hyc> ^^ get a faster CPU and it'll be quicker ')
<redlion_> Does anyone have a _working_ monero-core or mymonero build on ios currently? I've been fiddling around and I can't seem to get either properly functional on the sim/device, though I may be missing something
<fluffypony> lol hyc
<endogenic> redlion_: pls come join #mymonero but yes i do :)
<Jaquee> redlion_: i have. it has some nasty bugs but it's running
<redlion_> ok thanks, I'll talk to you after this
<hyc> btw iOS still limits process VM size to 4GB so we won't be running monerod native on iOS any time soon
<fluffypony> @jollymort let's discuss it after the meeting, or maybe next week - there are 2 more meetings to go tonight :)
<fluffypony> and that's a large topic
<_Slack> <jollymort> sure, another time
<redlion_> thanks jaquee, are there any build instructions or a (sort of) working build posted somewhere?
<fluffypony> 6. Confirm next meeting date/time
<fluffypony> May 21
<fluffypony> day before Consensus
<hyc> cool
<endogenic> 👍
<hyc> oh. this week I expect to have wolf miner fully ported to Android, with GPU support too
<fluffypony> endogenic can come to my hotel and we can do the meeting together :-P
<endogenic> oooh
<fluffypony> and with that
<fluffypony> we end the meeting on time
<hyc> (whether the hashrate is enough to bother is still an open question)
<fluffypony> with 2 minutes to spare
<fluffypony> because we're that cool