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Our TCC is 1.071 where the cutoff is 1.07 for IRC1 in Turkey. Next season I am hoping to move to IRC2 where it will be more fair as we will line up against 30 plus footers instead of 40 plus footers in IRC1.

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Another superb day onboard Gp26 today. First to finish line, first on corrected time in sportboat racing. 20 miles geographic course which was basically windward leeward racing. Wind always over 20, picking upto 30 in gusts later. Max speed, 19.6 with long streches in 17s and longer streches over 15. Video later...

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Another superb day onboard Gp26 today. First to finish line, first on corrected time in sportboat racing. 20 miles geographic course which was basically windward leeward racing. Wind always over 20, picking upto 30 in gusts later. Max speed, 19.6 with long streches in 17s and longer streches over 15. Video later...

Excellent news; really want to see that video!

Jim

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Yes we did. Antal base is turning 360 degrees. It came easier for helmsman to tack with the main sheet at hand and take the slack sheet from behind instead of taking from front of the fine tune. We will figure out another solution for finetune next season.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above.

Sailing Melges 24s in Hawaii with 5 people aboard also showed the benefit; the gains up wind compensate for the losses downwind.

In the begining off the video you see a crew of 5, and in the windy race they had 6.

You could probably fit a 7th person but it would be VERY crowed getting through tacks and gybes.

The extra weight downwind slows the boat down (obviously), but they don;t seem to be having an issue with this . . .

In the conditions in the video with a guy or two missing, the boat would be a few knots faster downwind.

Upwind you'd be 1/2 a knot slower and want a flatter jib/mainsail

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I noticed in the video there is a lot of play/movement of the tiller arm, where is that coming from?

Boat No 1's tiller was the first tiller built, and not optimal - it doesn't fit the rudder head as well as it could, and tends to rotatee up a bit too easily; you'll see it doing this when the driver pulls the rudder to weather. It's not terrible and isn't affecting the race resullts, so it looks like they have learned to live with it.

I am in Hong Kong right now with Hull No 2 and the tiller has a much better fit; in fact it is a gorgeous thing; I'll get a photo to post.

The finish of this hull No 2 is fantastic - BETTER than the photos show - the quality is right up there with the best builders.

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Great video. Looks like a great deal of fun to be had. My only concern is the number of crew in most of these videos. With a max crew weight of 340kg (from the GP26 Class page) that is only three of me or four smaller guys. I had a feeling these boats were designed for 4 or maybe 5 crew and all of the videos I see have 6-7 on board. Does the change in weight have a significant change in power and ability to drive to these speeds.

VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above.

Sailing Melges 24s in Hawaii with 5 people aboard also showed the benefit; the gains up wind compensate for the losses downwind.

In the begining off the video you see a crew of 5, and in the windy race they had 6.

You could probably fit a 7th person but it would be VERY crowed getting through tacks and gybes.

The extra weight downwind slows the boat down (obviously), but they don;t seem to be having an issue with this . . .

In the conditions in the video with a guy or two missing, the boat would be a few knots faster downwind.

Upwind you'd be 1/2 a knot slower and want a flatter jib/mainsail

There were 6 people on board.

I was mostly behind the camera because of my weight (100 kg )So the total weight was around 460 kg.

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

Hmm... you mean, it's like almost every other boat anybody's ever heard of in that respect?

It's a better question to ask if the added crew/weight gains enough upwind to make up for the loss downwind, but as always it depends on the specific conditions. I'd guess that in flat water, crew weight upwind would be less critical.

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

These are the kinds of answers I'm looking for... is it a boat that I can sail with a crew that I can reasonably expect to round up; two or three good sailors (most likely my wife will be one of them most of the time, very knowledgable but dislikes being scared) and whoever else is standing around when I say "Hey let's go sailing."

It's a beauty and must be a blast to sail, unfortunately in our area we need shallow-water capability. It's very exciting to think of this becoming possible!

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How is the GP26 to sail shorthanded (2-3 up)? When you say it's faster on W/L with 6-7 people over 15 knots TWS, then is it massively overpowered 2-up at that wind strength?

To quote what I posted previously,"VPP studies suggested that a heavier crew weight than GP26 class rule would be generally faster around a W/L track in 15 knots and above."

Essentially the GP26 4 person crew weight is too light for optimum performace in over 15 knots. 5 is better.

As the wind strength increases, and you need to sail upwind, extra crew will make the boat faster upwind.

Hmm... you mean, it's like almost every other boat anybody's ever heard of in that respect?

It's a better question to ask if the added crew/weight gains enough upwind to make up for the loss downwind, but as always it depends on the specific conditions. I'd guess that in flat water, crew weight upwind would be less critical.

A Gp 26 will be less over-powered with a short-handed crew of 3 than similar "powered up" sportsboats; the boat has a heavy bulb on a deep fin, and my design has a very stable hull form.

Would it be easy to sail a GP26 with 3 people in 15 knots or more?

A crew that small will need to be very, very good to set/gybe/take-down the spinnaker.

These are the kinds of answers I'm looking for... is it a boat that I can sail with a crew that I can reasonably expect to round up; two or three good sailors (most likely my wife will be one of them most of the time, very knowledgable but dislikes being scared) and whoever else is standing around when I say "Hey let's go sailing."

It's a beauty and must be a blast to sail, unfortunately in our area we need shallow-water capability. It's very exciting to think of this becoming possible!

FB- Doug

The hull's stability makes it much easier to sail than a Melges 24 by comparison.

New crew members will have an easier time getting used to the boat and not get taken out by the boom on the first gybe.

When the gust hits, the hull heels a bit and the heavy bulb at the end of the deep fin does it job remarkably well.

Added to this is an efficient rudder that stays immersed and will direct the boat wherever you want with little effort.

Forget spinning out of control and just hang on as the boat accelerates:

Have a look at the www.wraceboats.com website at the videos; check out the helmsman and what he is doing with the tiller - you don;t need much movement to keep this design tracking.

and the sailing photos we are getting back from Istanbul are just fantastic:

Curious what draft reduction would be needed?

Maybe this conversation would be better shifted to the current thread on that topic?

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A no recess rule doesn't make it so that you can't have a drop keel since when the boat's measured (i.e with the keel down) there is no recess. I'm sure if you had asked the rules tech people they'd have told you that - if they didn't then they don't understand English. Only restiction with a drop keel is it does prevent you from doing some things like certain kinds of sweep etc. No way I'd be buying an 8m boat that weighs fuck all and then need to have cranes to take it out of the water and a high boy trailer and all that shit. And really how much weight is it going to add to the boat? As for the retractable underhung rudder Heribertos pics show one way and the Firebird 26 catamaran also has them. A boat like thins shouldn't have a transom hung rudder.

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The GP 26 rule specifies a "recess" not greater than 20 litres in volume for the purpose of keel attachment and that the keel when fitted totally fills the recess.

A recess ( Webster's) is not a trunk and to bring a trunk safely above the waterline may well require a volume greater than allowed. As an IM in 3 classes I am quite sure that a rule change is required. As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26, I would be happy to propose the rule change. I think that the concern people have about water access is well founded and the class is open to the modification. Having said that, I also think that for official class events once they get started venues will need to be selected so that all boats can race. I am pretty sure rule wording can be submiited and the rule adjusted before the 2013 version is published.

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The GP 26 rule specifies a "recess" not greater than 20 litres in volume for the purpose of keel attachment and that the keel when fitted totally fills the recess.

A recess ( Webster's) is not a trunk and to bring a trunk safely above the waterline may well require a volume greater than allowed. As an IM in 3 classes I am quite sure that a rule change is required. As an owner of a deep fitted keel, non-retractable rudder and really tall custom trailer Donovan designed GP 26, I would be happy to propose the rule change. I think that the concern people have about water access is well founded and the class is open to the modification. Having said that, I also think that for official class events once they get started venues will need to be selected so that all boats can race. I am pretty sure rule wording can be submiited and the rule adjusted before the 2013 version is published.

Best regards,

Kevin

The purpose of the 20 litre recess rule is not very obvious, and it doesn't make sense to prevent a 26 foot yacht from having a lift keel for trailer transport.

The beam of the yacht has been held within trailering limits, so the boat should be allowed to have a keel arrangement that is also suited for trailering.

I have towed a lot of yachts this size thousands of miles, and quite honestly I prefer having the boat up high on the trailer.

You can see under the hull which makes merging into traffic and lanes changes far easier.

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Sorry, I should have said aside from inboard engine. There are lots of medium distance races that are calling for yachts basically capable of Cat 2, excluding the engine requirement.

I'll review and ask specific questions. For example, I understand that Kevin's boat has "watertight" compartments that may or may not be in the Windseeker boats as part of the standard build. Is that correct?

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I have a different question. I've seen the mast that Kevin is putting in his boat and it is a pretty beefy carbon section, seems very stiff. How are you feeling about the Pauger masts in your builds? Are they stiff enough? Would you go stiffer than what they are now? any problems tuning or keeping the tune in the rig?

The GP 26 rule restricts mast tube dimensions and weight.

The resulting mast is quite strong and stiff - you will appreciate this with the large spinnaker propelling the boat at speeds exceeding 20 knots.

The Pauger section was developed specifically for the GP 26.

The Hall section uses an existing section with laminate designed to maximise stiffness within GP26 rules

There were some early examples of GP 26 built in timber that weighed near the limit (possibly over).

There was some discussion about raising the maximum allowable weight, but fortunately this did not happen.

I know that the boat in SF is near minimum wieght, as are the boats my friend Martin Billoch designed in Argentina.

When I mention it is "difficult" to build a GP 26 to minium wieght, this is due in large part to the size of the boat (freeeboard and internal volume requirments) and the requirement to meet a scantling rule for the structures. Normal production boat building methods will yield boats near maximum weight.

The Windseeker boats are built like a carefully constructed custom yacht to control excess weight.

When I mention it is "difficult" to build a GP 26 to minium wieght, this is due in large part to the size of the boat (freeeboard and internal volume requirments) and the requirement to meet a scantling rule for the structures. Normal production boat building methods will yield boats near maximum weight.

What about those GP26 in Argentina, I read somewhere that they are over 1100kg?

1005kg is excellent, congratulations on that.

Is that ready for sail just except sail?

You said that normal production method isn't good for building GP26 near minimum weight, can I ask what method you had in mind?

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with you bare hands.

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

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I have this problem when I talk to people about boats of different sizes. Most people think only of the length of the boat -- overall length. The thing is, boats are 3 dimensional objects. They have different shapes. Those light sportboats down under are small for their length. Just like the Viper is small for it's length. You can not compare the difficulty of building a viper to it's weight with the difficulty of building a melges 20 or a U20 to the same weight, or even a cal 20. The viper is a smaller boat, even though it is approximately the same length. A single scull (http://www.empacher....ote/1x_R_e.html) even longer, and they weigh 85 - 100 kg. It's a little like explaining the difference between peeling an apple and peeling an orange. It is very difficult to peel an apple with your bare hands.

Ah. Thanks for the correction. I was thinking it sounded heavier than I remembered (from 20 years ago!). But it makes the point even more salient. The length of an object is not a good predictor of weight (or even cost/value), and that holds for boats, unless you assume everything else is the same.

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If that is what you feel why haven't you bought one? How many have been sold to date? Hull#2 to Asia without the cutouts in the cockpit and then Hull#1 demo boat was for sale....., but now a new option to have a lifting keel.....