Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

oh, this is getting rather fun, isn't it?

****************************************************************************************************************************************We balance probabilities and choose the most likely. It is the scientific use of the imagination.

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

Yeah, I realized it recently while watching this gif. It gets lost in the whole scene, but here it's stiking. Not 100% sure if it's deliberate though. I know, it's hard to believe, but there are things in this show that are actually random

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

JP wrote:

Yeah, I realized it recently while watching this gif. It gets lost in the whole scene, but here it's stiking. Not 100% sure if it's deliberate though. I know, it's hard to believe, but there are things in this show that are actually random

I don't believe you.

----------------------------------------------------------------------Proud President and Founder of the OSAJ. Honorary German"Anyone who takes himself too seriously always runs the risk of looking ridiculous; anyone who can consistently laugh at himself does not". -Vaclav Havel "Life is full of wonder, Love is never wrong." Melissa Ethridge

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

In this thread, I only see three posts that entertain the notion that this scene may not have been referring to a third Holmes sibling.

Swanpride wrote:

"The other one" might not be Mycrofts brother but the last agent they send on the mission. Just saying.

Ivy wrote:

I don't think he talked about a brother at all, he was probably talking about his predecessor or another agent, who couldn't get this job right because of personal feelings. Maybe the agent Anthea (Andrea) mentioned in Empty Hearse, the one who lost his life.

sherlockskitty wrote:

I've been thinking that Mycroft's remark may NOT have referred to another Holmes brother too. There's so many possibilities for mikey's remark.

Let's look at the actual dialog of that scene (transcript courtesy of Ariane DeVere):

MYCROFT: As my colleague is fond of remarking, this country sometimes needs a blunt instrument. Equally, it sometimes needs a dagger – a scalpel wielded with precision and without remorse.MYCROFT: There will always come a time when we need Sherlock Holmes.SIR EDWIN: If this is some expression of familial sentiment ...MYCROFT: Don’t be absurd. I am not given to outbursts of brotherly compassion.MYCROFT: You know what happened to the other one.MYCROFT: In any event, there is no prison in which we could incarcerate Sherlock without causing a riot on a daily basis. The alternative, however ...

In the classic style of the writers, these lines are ambiguously written, allowing several interpretations. The interpretation that Mycroft is referring to another sibling is the most obvious - which, to me, actually makes this interpretation suspect.

It can also be interpreted as, "You know what happened to the other person who exercised brotherly compassion".

Regardless of which interpretation one believes, anyone who claims absolute certainty of a particular interpetation is wrong in their certainty. The fact is, we don't know for sure what is actually being said here.

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

After two and a half years of thinking I had quite a simple idea of who "the other one" might be:

Sherlock - The Other One?

I love simple solutions. And while there are lots of brilliant metas about who the Other One might be, I would like to throw in my simple two cents:

What we have is this: Sherlock Holmes who has shot an unarmed man in front of several witnesses, police among them. This is something not even Mycroft Holmes can sweep under the rug. His brother is a murderer and has to be punished.

However, what he can do is this: hide the true reason Sherlock killed Magnussen. Why should he do that? Because this way he can protect Mary’s true identity. Here are some, but surely not all, possible reasons for doing so. Mycroft could be in cahoots with Mary. If so, he would probably wish to conceal this from Lady Smallwood and his colleagues. Or Mycroft is under Mary’s thumb for some reason. Or Mycroft truly does not know about Mary’s past (highly improbable) but suspects that Sherlock shot Magnussen to save John and wants to keep this a secret. Whatever the reason may be, we can safely assume that Mycroft does not want the truth to come out. Also in the conversation with his political colleagues Mary and John are never mentioned.

Now let’s have a look at the Other One scene.

The scene obviously starts in the middle of the meeting, they have been talking about how to handle Sherlock for some time. What if we assume that Lady Smallwood, Sir Edwin and the others have been told that Sherlock shot Magnussen in order to protect his own brother? That Mycroft was targeted by Magnussen (which is not even a lie) and Sherlock saw no other way of dealing with the threat than shooting Magnussen? Lady Smallwood would have readily believed this after her own bitter experience with the man. Which would make Sherlock someone acting out of familial sentiment and brotherly compassion. Mycroft distances himself from these feelings in order to keep his iceman appearance intact. He sacrifices Sherlock’s reputation as a cold thinking machine in order to save his brother, at least for the time being. Please read the scene again with that in mind and you will find nothing that really contradicts this reading.

What I like about this idea is that it explains a lot, most of all the pressing question why everyone in the room seems to know about the Other One.

One last point: Why does Mycroft use this cryptic expression instead of saying “You know what happened to Sherlock/my brother”? Two suggestions:

Because the writers knew there would be a hiatus of at least two years and they love us racking our brains over these things. And it would also be a nod to the non-canonical theories of a third Holmes brother who is speculated about by Sherlockian scholars but never mentioned in the stories. It may also be read as an expression of disgust and contempt, “the other one” who does not have his feelings under control, who cannot be trusted to be above all that sentimental stuff, the little brother who now “goes for that sort of thing”. This way Mycroft distances himself from Sherlock in order to preserve his image as an emotionless power player.

Last edited by SusiGo (September 11, 2016 10:47 am)

------------------------------"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

I kind of like that idea. It's very neat. And I've always had it in the back of my mind that "the other one" could just be the writers having a bit of fun - they know people will pick up on it and speculate. I'm not sure that it rings true that Mycroft would say it like that (or that the others would understand what he meant), but I think it wouldn't be the only time they've written something in an odd way to allow for more than one interpretation.

I know we'll have to wait for S4, but this is a nice new theory to add to the list!

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

I also like simple solutions - especially when the authors would not have to explain too much to the "normal" audience in series 4.Sherlock as "The Other One" - interesting idea, Susi. Mycroft would have used this expression here as a code for Sherlock used by the government members.But: If Mycroft wants to keep up appearances of being the Iceman - why would he have "waded in" to save Sherlock in Serbia, a fact his colleagues would certainly know about?Of course Mycroft could have told them that it was just for the fact that Sherlock could help solve the Underground network case, but there was no reason for him to go to Serbia in person. Some other (maybe even Serbian speaking) secret service member would have done this job maybe even more professionaly. No, in my opinion, Mycroft, taking on the burden of dealing with "people" does show his brotherly affection for Sherlock quite clearly.

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

Thanks for your answer, tobe. You have a point regarding Serbia. But then we do not know how secret Mycroft's operation was. I suppose he has means to keep things secret even from government members. For example, are you sure he told his superiors that he kept Moriarty in a underground cell? The man who later invaded Pentonville, the Tower, and the Bank of England? I would think that Lady Smallwood and her colleagues have no idea what Mycroft is up to, that he is a state within the state. He probably told them he would get his brother back to London, full stop.

We should remember that probably no one but Sherlock and John know about Mycroft's feelings for his brother.

------------------------------"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

SusiGo wrote:

We should remember that probably no one but Sherlock and John know about Mycroft's feelings for his brother.

Apart from Magnussen and Moriarty, of course.

Mycroft being a state within the state - a tempting thought but to me not convincing. If it were so Mycroft would be extremely busy to hide his unofficial actions from the official secret service. And it would not only be him involved but lots of other people working for him. Quite risky and a constant danger to be discovered and prosecuted.

As you mentioned, Susi, Mofftiss placing the phrase "the other one" here would keep the fandom busy with speculating during the hiatus. That's very like them!

But, if your theory "the other one" being Sherlock is right - isn't it a bit awkward that Mycroft would use "Sherlock Holmes", "Sherlock" AND "the other one" within this short conversation to name his brother?

Re: The other brother - my head just exploded

tobeornot221b wrote:

SusiGo wrote:

We should remember that probably no one but Sherlock and John know about Mycroft's feelings for his brother.

Apart from Magnussen and Moriarty, of course.

Mycroft being a state within the state - a tempting thought but to me not convincing. If it were so Mycroft would be extremely busy to hide his unofficial actions from the official secret service. And it would not only be him involved but lots of other people working for him. Quite risky and a constant danger to be discovered and prosecuted.

As you mentioned, Susi, Mofftiss placing the phrase "the other one" here would keep the fandom busy with speculating during the hiatus. That's very like them!

But, if your theory "the other one" being Sherlock is right - isn't it a bit awkward that Mycroft would use "Sherlock Holmes", "Sherlock" AND "the other one" within this short conversation to name his brother?

I see your point and as I said, it is just a theory. But to me it seems more plausible than digging up a third sibling that is not Canon (whereas all other main characters are, except Molly). We all know that Sherrinford was ACD's original name for Sherlock so according to Canon Sherrinford would not be the third brother but an earlier version of Sherlock himself. And a secret sibling that has never been mentioned but is known to Lady Smallwood and all the others without even mentioning their name?

------------------------------"To fake the death of one sibling may be regarded as a misfortune; to fake the death of both looks like carelessness." Oscar Wilde about Mycroft Holmes

"It is what it is says love." (Erich Fried)

“Enjoy the journey of life and not just the endgame. I’m also a great believer in treating others as you would like to be treated.” (Benedict Cumberbatch)