Open Letter to the Russell Tribunal

2011-11-08 12:24

Janis Just

My name is Janis Just, and I am a political science student at the University of Cape Town. I attended the full proceedings of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine as I am covering it on behalf of a German newspaper. I attended in my individual capacity and am not part of any specific lobby group.

On Monday November 7, I attended the post Tribunal press conference. Organisers of the Russell Tribunal recognised me from a different press conference last week where I asked a question about Hamas’ violations of human rights. When attempting to ask a question this time, the organisers called me a “serious heckler” and a “Zionist activist”.

The first accusation is patently untrue, as I did not engage in any heckling whatsoever. As to the second accusation, I have no problem wearing this title. However, their labelling of me as a “Zionist activist” was their attempt to delegitimise my argument and me as a person. This is not only against any democratic convention, it is contrary to the stated intention of the Russell Tribunal itself - which is hears all evidence and seek the truth.

Simply for asking an uncomfortable question, which apparently did not fit with the agenda of the Tribunal, I was forcibly removed from the Russell Tribunal's official press conference. Not only was I not allowed to ask any questions, but in attempting to raise issues of concern, I was thrown to the floor, dragged out of the conference and threatened with more violence.

It would seem that my mere presence there constituted a threat so serious that I had to be removed by any means. What they were afraid of was not that I would disturb their session, but that I would expose their biased agenda.

I have laid a charge of assault against the Tribunal organisers. However, what concerns me more than the physical abuse to which I was subjected, is that a gathering of such eminent persons for a process that has the stated aim of attempting to examine testimony and uncover the truth, in the spirit of judicial enquiry, not only were not capable of hearing differing opinions, but that such opinions were forcibly silenced. That is far more reminiscent of the apartheid regime than any of the allegations levelled against the State of Israel at the Tribunal itself.

The question I wanted to ask and still need answered is the following: Hamas is not only responsible for murder, torture and human rights violations among their own people, but also for terrorist attacks against Israeli citizens. What official position does the Russell Tribunal jury take towards the Islamist regime of Hamas ruling the people of Gaza?

To the jurists of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine: I demand an answer to my question and an apology from the organisers of the Tribunal for physically attacking me.

Sincerely,Janis Just

Comments

Mart - 2011-11-08 12:37

Israel is right and has my full support. The Israelies are rarely the aggressor against these 'muppets' that hide behind women and children. They and their supporters are born and die as cowards.

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 14:27

I Agree Mart. And as South Africans who lived during Apartheid and this term developed in this country, it is South Africans and this Russel Tribunal who should know first hand that there is no Apartheid of any form happening in Israel what so ever.
Arabs living in Israel have the same rights just as any other Jewish citizen in Israel if not more in some cases.
There are Arab political parties in Israel, there were no Black Pol parties in SA.
There are Arab commanders serving in the IDF where no black commanders in the SADF.
There is Arab Magistrates in Israel, none in SA during Apartheid. Funny enough it was also a Arab judge who sentences a Ex Isralie president to 7 years in jail for rape, in this country you get promoted to President for that kind of offence.
The list goes on.
At this point in time South Africa is more of a apartheid state now with its many policies like BEE and AA, where as Israels policies come nowhere near to ours. South Africa is experiencing another apartheid its just reversed.
The Islamic holy book the Quran itself acknowledges that Israel is the Holy Land of the Jewish people.
The Russel tribunal itself is a biased meeting, which is why lots of Jewish organisations declined to attend, and the fact that Janis was thrown out for asking a fair question shows how biased this meeting is.

Ax - 2011-11-08 15:58

Mart you dont know what yo are talking about. The issue is about land and isreal knows how to manipulate people.
The scenario is simple, almost Shakespearean:
Act1-The hidden side or what you people dont want to know about:Isreal occupied land that wasn't theirs in the contented territories, palestine went to the UN to object, the UN puts a resolution forward, the US vetoes the resolutions leaving the palestinians with a sense of injustice. Check the records, you will find over ONE HUNDRED resolution vetoed by the US when it comes to isreal.
act 2-Some factions of the palestinians have enough of this injustice and decide to resiste against the occupation, isreal engage the propaganda, sorry media, machine and broadcast the attacks to the world crying about hos violent the other side is and use that to legitimize their retaliation
Act 3-palestine tries to go back to the UN and back to act 1.
as to JANUS, if the shoe fit..., since you say you have no problem wearing the label “Zionist activist”, then you are one obviously and lack the minimum objectivity to work for a german newspaper or any other.
Why didnt you plan to ask also about the use of white phosphorous by isreal recently, why not ask about the disappearance of thousand of palestinians after their arrest, why do you ask about the assassination of an iranian minister in his country by your beloved country, NOOOO that would be biting the hand that feeds you

ohh how sweet cameron, shall we share some videos?
No problem go check all that:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search=Search&resnum=0&oi=spell&search_query=israeli+abuse&spell=1&suggested_categories=25%2C27%2C29%2C22&sa=X

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 16:48

@Ax Do you know how many of those videos are made by Pallywood?

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 17:36

And my age has what to do with any of this? Shame that a old person like you is too blind to see.

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 17:53

@Ax
@Ax
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=23a_1231593272&comments=1

spartan888 - 2011-11-08 20:48

AX, screw palestine, and you

spartan888 - 2011-11-08 20:51

AX i dont care "who was there first". The israelis turned desert into arable land. They built up a nation that the arabs can only dream of in their pea brain heads. Long live israel (im not even jewish). I met some israeli girls last month;) verrrrrrry niiiiiiice!!

Silver - 2011-11-08 12:42

Would love to hear their response... but alas this whole tribunal is nothing more than a bias and one sided scripted publicity stunt.

PeggySven - 2011-11-08 21:14

Silver is it not rather ironic that Israel is the only "Democracy" in the whole region. Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Oman, UAE are definitely not, Egypt is a long way from being democratic and Iran cannot be called a Democracy after it's last election, nor can Iraq be called a fully fledged democracy. Israel is the only country in the region that recognises all it's citizens as voters, not just the Jewish ones. It is rather unfortunate that there is such a deafening silence around the abuses by the other countries in the region and such rabid calls for the destruction of Israel at the UN.

Pieter - 2011-11-08 13:07

What really gets me is all those old fossils sitting around doing absolutely nothing. Shame on you all!!

Roberta - 2011-11-08 13:16

Janis, with a biased mob like this so called tribunal you eirther say what they want you to say or your differing opinion will not be tolerated. That unfortunately is the way these people seem to think. And what sickens me more is that eminent people such as Bishop Tutu shout their heads off against Israeli attrition. What is his agenda? I fail to see it. BTW - I am not jewish or a zionist - I just support fairness.

Ianm - 2011-11-08 13:24

Tutu is senile. Send him to an old age home!

Jeff - 2011-11-08 13:29

For a 'christian' like tutu to be anti Israel says volumes of his belief in the bible.

Iwan - 2011-11-08 13:31

Agreed, even Goldstein gave them a piece. Anywoo, like the background in the profile pic.

Iwan - 2011-11-08 13:38

*Goldstein = Goldstone

frans.visserdsb - 2011-11-08 13:56

It is unfortunately the latest cause celebre - everybody on the bandwagon and no dissent allowed... unfortunately Tibet is not as fashionable a cause, because China is more powerfull than Israel...

Ianm - 2011-11-08 13:21

You will not get an honest answer or an appology. This is a "support terrorism" group.

ruben.maistry - 2011-11-08 13:23

Interesting to hear the response to Janis Just's question from the Russell Tribunal.

Jeff - 2011-11-08 13:26

This Russell setup is just anti Israel. Typical of south africa to support all the rogues like palestine, libya, cuba, north korea, etc.
Birds of a feather flock together.

Iwan - 2011-11-08 13:39

They are anti-western actually.

spartan888 - 2011-11-08 13:30

Dont worry Janis, let the silly "tribunal" say what they want. It means nothing. The israelis dont give a rats ass about what this farse of a tribunal thinks

Mike - 2011-11-08 13:30

Unfortunately the "Democratic" manner in which most African (note I did not say South African)politicians conduct themselves leads me to wonder whether they actually understand the true meaning of Democracy. Rather they tend to believe that Democracy gives them the power to be right when all others (that do not agree) are wrong. Sort of Tribal don't you think? Is there really hope still for the Rainbow nation where ALL can be treated equally and have their say??

PeggySven - 2011-11-08 14:27

Mike, it would seem that they believe that Democracy means that once the ruling party has been voted into power, it has "Supreme Power" and that they forever rule by decree. The checks and balances that are normally set up to keep the Executive from making laws that are unfair or against the welfare of the "People" are soon destroyed and it is not long before laws that curtail "Freedom of Speech", "Freedom of Association", "Freedom to Produce" and "Freedom to Own Property and Businesses" are propagated.
African Democracy is a contradiction of terms.

Rolene - 2011-11-08 13:41

Janis, this Israeli salutes you for your courage!!! Well done. Look at how these self proclaimed human rights activists behave! Well, done of them, Leila Khaled, had a career as an airplane hijacker!! Thank you for standing up for the truth.

gillkittykatz - 2011-11-08 16:10

Well said Rolene! And I have to say I am impressed with the calibre of comments here, aren't you?

markdeanbrown - 2011-11-08 18:49

Ax, the same question could be asked (and I'm not saying it's a legitimate question, which it isn't) of some so-called 'Pro-Palestinian' activists and yet you target Rolene. Your double standards are showing comrade.

Ax - 2011-11-08 19:15

well mark, on my side i dont consider myself palestinian lebanese or whatever nationality related to this conflict.
I am merely an observer with some knowledge, who tries to see clearly in this mess.
but she openly declares that her allegiance is to another nation, which can even be considered treason.
If she said that she was of jewish confession hence supporting blindly isreal ok, why not, but when you put in nationalist sentiment that's a different ball game, geddit?

spartan888 - 2011-11-08 21:25

AX, treason for having allegiance to another country? Who said Rolene wasnt also a south african patriot? you can love more than one country at once im sure. As an "objective: observer u are pretty biased. Palestine will never be, and im happy about that because its ALL Israel. Gaza and West bank are jokes.

Rob - 2011-11-08 13:42

Before making any comment on the politics and geography of the Southern Levant and Transjordan ask yourself some questions. Who are the Israelis; Where is Israel; Who are the Palestinians; Where is Palestine. It is so complex that is hardly suprising that there is a kalaedescope of opinion about who is and who isn't right. Through all that confusion ia a foundational fact/idea. So called Palestinians, who are Israeli citizens living within the artificial borders of present day Israel have standards of living and political freedoms that are envied by most of the states bordering on modern Israel. Now consider that many of the Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank are descendants of the thousands of local people who chose to leave when the expected Arab decimation did not materialise after the unilateral declaration of independance in 1947/48. A large proportion of the land that had been owned by Arab/Turkish residents prior to the 1947 war had been volountarily sold to Zionist settlers.
Does anyone realistically expect Israel to back off? Why should they?

Paul - 2011-11-08 13:53

Agreed ... there isn't even a Palestinian languish ..writen or spoken ... so how can there be a Palestinian Nation?

E - 2011-11-08 14:40

Paul, that is really a nonsense argument. If you follow that line, countries like Egypt, which speaks Arabic (not 'Egyptian') or Argentina, which speaks Spanish (not 'Argentinian'), just to name a very few, also do not qualify as 'nations'. What about the USA, or Australia? - they speak English, generally - the examples are endless.

Jeffrey - 2011-11-08 14:40

@Paul.
Neither are there such languages as chinese or indian, but those countries each have populations of over a billion. Other countries without their own language include Brazil, Switzerland, Belguim, Mexico.....

haigs - 2011-11-08 14:48

This may shed some light.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ByJb7QQ9U&feature=feedlik

Liz - 2011-11-08 14:48

I agree. It must be difficult for Israel to come to any reasonable compromise with people who openly state that their objective is the Total Destruction of the Israeli State. As to who has the greater right -Arabs or Jews - how far back do we go? The Jews were there first - Christianity and then Islam followed! The Jews were prepared to live in peace with their Arab neighbours, but this has never been reciprocated.

Paul - 2011-11-08 16:18

Over 80% of so-called Palestinians are expat Jordanians. Fact. They just can't stomach living in Jordan. It's not a legit nation.

Rob - 2011-11-08 18:36

Come on Ax, there were Zionist settlers in the Southern Levant long before the 'Sick Man of Europe' (Turkey) exited at the close of the 1914-18 war, wasn't the Zionist movement founded by Theodore Herzl in 1897 with the specific objective of resettlement in what was then Turkish ruled Palestine . Even earlier there was immigration, mostly from Russia as a result of the pogroms there in the 1880s. The sale of land by Turkey to Jewish settlers obviously happened because the Ottomans 'issued new orders and decrees in reaction to Jewish immigration in the 1880s to reduce limit land purchase (reference The Boundaries of Modern Palestine, Biger G 2004, Page 15: Routledge). Over 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants left their towns and villages in 1948, while Rashid Khalidi puts the percentage at 50. Factors involved in the flight include the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes, the collapse in Palestinian leadership, an unwillingness to live under Jewish control, Jewish military advances, and fears of massacre after Deir Yassin(Reference Nur-eldeen Masalha). It is easy it is to pick holes in a few lines of text that are attempting to illustrate a point, but here you have referenced comments. I am neither Jewish nor Israeli, but I do have a considerable library on this subject....So I suggest that you check your references before throwing insults. By the way, in 1949 Israel offered to accept the return of 100,000 Palestinian refugees, they refused!

susan.greyling - 2011-11-08 13:45

This whole thing is just an echo chamber. I often think our government is obsessed with Israel purely because they had friendly relations with the NP. It has nothing to do with principles. It's about revenge. If they were principled, they would not be so chummy with African dictators. How can you support Gaddafi and then act like you have any moral currency?

sackstein - 2011-11-08 13:45

Amazing that in a week when 50 rockets were fired by Hamas at civilian targets in Israel -the Russell propogandists said nothing. The mere fact that the Goldstone report accused Hamas of war crimes and deliberately targeting civilians and this was ignored by the Russell propogandists is not a shock. The fact that Hamas did nothing to investigate its war crimes as required by Goldstone and the Russell propogandists said nothing is par for the course.
The Russell propogandists cannot allow facts to get in the way of the circuis they want to create.

Ahmed - 2011-11-08 14:14

Isreal is a racist apartheid state and so are all the pro-isreal howlers on this forum

Iwan - 2011-11-08 14:20

Ahmed,
Judge Richard Goldstone, writing in The New York Times in October 2011, said of the Russell Tribunal on Palestine that “It is not a ‘tribunal.’ The ‘evidence’ is going to be one-sided and the members of the ‘jury’ are critics whose harsh views of Israel are well known. In Israel, there is no apartheid. Nothing there comes close to the definition of apartheid under the 1998 Rome Statute."

Rob - 2011-11-08 15:35

For Ahmed. You priveledge me by your identification of me as a'racist apartheid state', and you don't even know me. Would I be correct to also assume that you have not experienced Israel first hand, but nevertheless have extremely solid, maybe extreme, opinions. Work your way through what I have said, I am sure that what you will realise is that this approach is one of the biggest barriers to finding a settlement that will not substantively destroy the infrastructure that has been built in Israel in the past 60 years

Allan - 2011-11-08 15:53

@ Ari, I would rather be an Izzie than a Mozzie!

Ax - 2011-11-08 16:30

yes allan, thank you for perpetuating the world stereotypes ranking, better to be white than black, christian than jewish and jewish than muslim.
FYI we are in the 21st century, you still live in the 1900 it seems...

Ari - 2011-11-08 18:17

@Allen I noticed that you capitalised "Izzie". I didn't. The word reminds me of lizards and similar reptiles . . .

Scatmanza - 2011-11-08 13:55

Janis as a South African I would like to apologise to you. We love to claim that we have a progresive constitution, but looking at the way we handled your issue, the Dali Lama issue and the general xenophobia around this country shows that as a nation we have no interest in world peace unless it suits our own personal agenda's. We have a long way to go before we can truthfully clain to be citizens of the world.

Rob - 2011-11-08 14:31

Well said! ANyone who cannot see the truth in this should indulge in a little self reflection and examine what they understand by 'principles' and 'being principled'

Richard - 2011-11-08 14:26

This tribunal has no legal standing whatsoever and seems to be more of a publicity stunt. Oh and in case I forget, a total waste of time and money. To the author, i'm sorry that had to be treated in the way descibed in your letter.

Michael - 2011-11-08 14:27

The fact is that Palestinians and Israelis have been at each other's throats ever since a group of people occupied a region, citing religious text as basis for the occupation.

stephen.titus1 - 2011-11-08 14:35

This tribunal is a complete farce. A tribunal is supposed to adjudicate and not suppress dissenting opinions or points of view. It is therefor patently obvious that its sole purpose is to propogate their dark agenda that the Israeli-Palestinian issue be seen in the same dim light as the world saw apartheid South Africa - an evil pariah state that needed to be sorted out. To the organisers and members of the tribunal I say: You have failed in your task; rather stick to the jobs you became famous for in the first place.

chiepner - 2011-11-08 14:39

The Russel Tribunal is nothing more than a side show, a prologue to something much more sinister. Things like these usually try to give a reason before something which is actually totally unjust starts apearing. Superpowers has subtle little ways to first try and win public (in this case world support) based on lies, smoke screens and half truths before the can be allowed to walk in and just take what they want.

Se-a Spencer Ikeremm - 2011-11-08 15:05

the world should just stop giving this palestine/israel war so much coverage. nothing will ever make them stop. They've been fighting forever and will conrinue to do so. Even in the Y4k it'll b happening. it is their existence. the sooner we take the tv cameras out of that region, the better the world will be. just leave them to their fights and we can continue ours with global warming, the economy, technology, finding a cure for cancer and for hiv...the famine, human trafficking, rhino killings, UFOs (lol) see, so many things these news networks could be covering instead of a never-gon-end war.

Nadeem - 2011-11-08 15:11

i find it very interesting that out of all the news to come out of the Russell Tribunal News24 has found place for this open letter only! Nothing else was newsworthy. #news24balancedandobjective?#whoarewekidding?

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 15:23

Well the Russel Tribunal was never news worthy to begin with and this is their way to justify why its not news worthy and shouldnt receive the attention its getting. Its a one sided tribunal chaired by biased and known Anti Israel representatives, not people on a neutral standing. So the result would be biased.

pcrous - 2011-11-08 15:22

Janis, please forgive them as they do not know what they are doing. I am not an Israeli, but they are God's chosen people. Soon the whole world is going to find that out. Palestinians, Hammas and whoever, they do npt stand a change against Yaweh's chosen. Read the Torah or the Bible and as you sanely said so does the Koran acknowledge that fact.
What do you care what the Russell commission says. They had a pre-planned Agenda and will go on with it.
You can't compare the Israeli's with the Apartheid system 2 Total different kettle of fish. So be cool about it. Just keep your nose clean and don't give anybody any satisfaction over you. I will pray for you.

markdeanbrown - 2011-11-08 15:23

As a South African, I have to apologize for the way you were treated in my country by my fellow South Africans. I was there yesterday and it was indeed shameful. Keep asking tough questions.

Rosemary - 2011-11-08 15:33

I was appalled at the condition of Gilad Shalit when he was released. The Palestinian prisoners released by Israel were obviously in good health and had been well fed and exercised. This shows the inhumanity of Hamas.

Brogan - 2011-11-08 15:43

When I first entered this debate I was completely neutral. But the more I look into it, the more I support Israel. Israel has been completely honest as far as I am concerned in all of her relations and she remains the ONLY democracy in the middle east. She welcomes all arab and muslim people (sometimes there is a distinction) to be her citizens and offers them the same rights and privileges of her Jewish Citizens. Palestinian leaders, however, have already said that they want to remove Israel from the face of the map(a threat of genocide, that I should think should be taken seriously) and that no Jew or Christian may ever enter Palestine when they take control of it. THAT IS APARTHEID if ever there was an apartheid in that area. Throughout History politicians have used propaganda and half truths to make sure that they get their way, and the palestinian authorities are using these same tactics. Something that has been on my mind is this: They receive millions of dollars worth of international Aid for their people,but their people are still not receiving this Aid. Israel is not stealing it, so one must ask, who is? And if someone is stealing it why is that? Lets assume the Palestinian leaders are keeping the money to themselves and then blaming Israel...would that not create more hostility within the arab world against Israel? I think it would. And i think this is what is happeningBut still, The Quoran says that The Land of Israel was Allah's gift to the Jewish people.I Agree

markdeanbrown - 2011-11-08 18:55

Amen!

ashne.segal - 2011-11-08 16:14

Ahmed, your name says it all!!!!!

Ax - 2011-11-08 16:27

What's wrong with his name?? just an arrangement of letters like anyone else.
But i guess since you are a jew, anyone with ahmed as a name is necessarily pro palestine and anyone with an ashne name is necessarily pro isreal and therefore both are extremely biased and refuse the reality of a debate.
You are probably right, your name does say it all

Allan - 2011-11-08 16:38

@ Ax, Who is stereotyping now, thanks for contradicting yourself. Are you still living in the 1800's?

Ax - 2011-11-08 16:49

geez, didn't they invent sarcasm in the 1900...

ashne.segal - 2011-11-08 16:54

Yes Ax I am a Jewess and proud of it, and by the way there are plenty Indians with that name. And Yes, my name does say it all - PROUDLY ISRAEL!

cameronrh1 - 2011-11-08 17:35

@Ax you must have fallen hard you poor thing...

Rolene - 2011-11-08 19:29

@Ax - I live in Israel Ax. Sorry to disappoint you.

rodney.mazinter - 2011-11-08 21:52

From: Curious Rod.
Why did we not see the Russell Tribunal find against Islamic dictatorships? Or the Burmese dictatorship and others? Or the enslavement of millions of women who live without any legal protection? Or the use of children as human shields, or worse, bombs? Or in support of the victims of Islamic dictatorship in Sudan, many of whose victims fled to Israel when the Egyptians turned on them? Or the acts of terrorism committed against Israel as was cogently and deservedly put to the Tribunal by Janis? Or why is the Western Left, represented by the members of the Russell Tribunal, obsessed with the two most solid democracies, the USA and Israel, and not with the worst dictatorships on the planet?

Joe - 2011-11-09 01:25

Really convenient, a google search on this person brings up zilch, kinds like the guy on 702 trying to make a name for himself. Covering the tribunal without a media pass, really convenient once again, hardly expected from a German newspaper. Just a thought they can have as many tribunals, meetings, marches, talks and whatever else but the way I see it one side has got to go. There aint no diplomacy that can solve this lets have an old fashioned gun fight!

mahdokt.pretorius - 2011-11-09 14:13

Even if u hit some with the truth in the face they wont recognise it they are too busy clinging onto their seats on the gravytrain to hell, forgive them Janus the only lingo they understand is money in the hand, their vote always goes to the highest bidder, same old same old SA..

Israel wants to be regarded as a democracy and a legitimate state ? let's talk about numbers, how can you call Hamas a terrorist group while Israel has killed a number of persons not even comparable to the what Hamas has ever done ? and this is a state, part of the UN and that receives billions of aids from the US and other countries, we are supposed to be much more critical regarding a state with these privileges than to any kind of other organization that is forced by the overwhelming power of the enemy and its continuos attacks and deprivations to react.

dani.kedar.5 - 2013-04-22 10:51

Ax, there is a difference between demonstrating a critical approach to the Israel/Palestinian issue, vs having an utter hatred for an entire nation, to the extent that organizations such as BDS will even protest Israel's existence! Also, the anti Israel lobby has hijacked the liberal banner, to deny people, and even turn violent when questions are asked that challenge the integrity of Israel's opposition, is un acceptable, and the fact that they are indulged is pure anti antisemitism. Last week 2 protestors were removed for disrupting a function celebrating Israel's independence day, typical of the anti Israel lobby, they have cried out of the brutality of the 'Jewish' not the 'Zionist' community, amazing how ant Zionism so quickly leads to antisemitism, however, a journalist who asks questions regarding Hamas, is physically removed from the conference?? The anti Zionist campaign needs to be stopped, not because it disagrees with Israel and its policies, but because it is turning into a violent and aggressive cult, of which the same practices of the emerging Nazi Germany are appearing, such as the encouragement of boycotting Jewish businesses, the dehumanizing of Israeli citizens as rodents, murderers, blood suckers etc... the disregard for Israel's legitimate security concerns, goes back to the low regard that eastern Europe had for the sanctity of Jewish life.

dani.kedar.5 - 2013-04-22 10:55

And Ax, since you brought up Israeli illegally occupying Palestinian land, let me give you a history lesson. Before 1967 the west bank belonged to Jordan, the Gaza strip belonged to Egypt. After the 6 day war, both these countries last these areas, bohoo, cry me a river, but sorry, that is life. They started a war with Israel, and they lost. But, eventually Israel, Egypt and Jordan signed a peace treaty, in which Israel, and their new borders were acknowledged. So eventually, Israel's post 1967 borders became their official borders.