My apologies, I can see where you are coming from now. I was probably looking from a selfish perspective!

01-08-2013, 07:54 AM

chris-uk

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

I've seen F10 recommended for use in this way a couple of times (one of them probably was the F10 website). I've seen it suggested as a treatment for RI, but I don't think I've seen it recommended as preventative measure.

As a principle, I'd be happy using it to treat an infection (although if one of mine is ill I can get to a vet in 25-30mins). I wouldn't routinely treat an asymptomatic animal though.

01-08-2013, 09:10 AM

Selkielass

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Sporadic, preventative treatments are a very effective way to select for antibiotic/pesticide/ disinfectant resistant organisms.
beekeeping is a mess today in part because of scattershot, home brewed and only partially effective treatments for disease and mites. Its a dangerous game.
My apologies if I have overreacted or hurt anyone, but I didn't realize how strongly I felt about this issue until my husband asked me a question, and I realized my body was in a full fledged adrenaline pumping panic attack. Intellectually I know its an overreaction, but my body decided to go int full panic mode. I apologize and I hope I didn't allow anything irrational to make it to this discussion.

I believe nebulization could and should be a valuable treatment for respiratory conditions.
I don't believe home brewed, cobbled together treatments are a safe or effective treatment in the long term. You may save a snake, but you set up condition stat will lead, in the long term to treatment resistant organisms. You also open yourself, your family and your collection to exposure to substances in ways that have not been tested, and may have unknown long term consequences.

Experimentation is necessary to develop new procedures and treatments, but I believe it should be done with careful thought and planning, and the mistakes of the past really need to be avoided.

01-08-2013, 09:36 AM

chris-uk

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selkielass

Sporadic, preventative treatments are a very effective way to select for antibiotic/pesticide/ disinfectant resistant organisms.

That's probably one of the best points of the thread.

01-08-2013, 10:20 AM

d_virginiana

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Yeah, I agree... If one of my snakes actually had an infection and I couldn't get them to a reptile vet, I might try that if nothing else had worked, but I definitely wouldn't use it as anything other than a last resort.

01-08-2013, 10:32 AM

Selkielass

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Thank you.
stepping back now. if specific examples are desired I can point people in the right direction, but otherwise i'll give this thread some space.
Ow. Sorry.

01-08-2013, 09:04 PM

ConcinusMan

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg'sGarters

Actually it is a disinfectant being used as an antibiotic. :D

No, it's a disinfectant being used as an antiseptic. It works by direct contact with microbes that line the lungs. And I have to tell you, using a disinfectant instead of an antiseptic saved my butt and got rid of infections I had, when nothing else worked.

For example... before anyone found a cheap way to make hydrogen peroxide, they used saltwater with chlorine bleach in it, as an antiseptic.

For staph infections of the skin that I have had, peroxide and all other OTC antiseptics were ineffective. The way I got rid of the infections without having to take strong IV antibiotics was, I soaked the infected area in hot, diluted Hexol household cleaner. The key for using a disinfectant as an antiseptic is you have to dilute it heavily. Hexol isn't labeled for this kind of use, but I have to tell you, it worked when nothing else did. Hexol*General Household Cleaner and Deodorant | Walgreens

I saw that original video that Brian posted but when I looked into getting the disinfectant, it was unavailable in the U.S. to the general public. Later, when it did become available, it was dang near cheaper by weight, to buy pure gold, than that stuff. I never looked into it again after that.

If it worked that quick, I think that pure water would have had the same effect.

As far as "research" goes and all that, from what I understand, Brian has been using this method to get rid of mild respiratory infections/illness successfully for a number of years now. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it works. It's simple. Direct contact with a disinfectant kills the infection which is lining the respiratory system.

01-11-2013, 08:06 PM

Greg'sGarters

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

I'm not saying that this is a magic fix, but it is sure helpful. I've been exposed to the fog many times, not dangerous. It is actually designed for animals, and correct me if I'm wrong but it can be administered through the air. I learned the trick from Brian Barczyk, one of the most reputable snake breeders around. If he does it, and recommends it, I would go for it.

01-11-2013, 08:12 PM

Greg'sGarters

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ConcinnusMan

No, it's a disinfectant being used as an antiseptic. It works by direct contact with microbes that line the lungs. And I have to tell you, using a disinfectant instead of an antiseptic saved my butt and got rid of infections I had, when nothing else worked.

For example... before anyone found a cheap way to make hydrogen peroxide, they used saltwater with chlorine bleach in it, as an antiseptic.

For staph infections of the skin that I have had, peroxide and all other OTC antiseptics were ineffective. The way I got rid of the infections without having to take strong IV antibiotics was, I soaked the infected area in hot, diluted Hexol household cleaner. The key for using a disinfectant as an antiseptic is you have to dilute it heavily. Hexol isn't labeled for this kind of use, but I have to tell you, it worked when nothing else did. Hexol*General Household Cleaner and Deodorant | Walgreens

I saw that original video that Brian posted but when I looked into getting the disinfectant, it was unavailable in the U.S. to the general public. Later, when it did become available, it was dang near cheaper by weight, to buy pure gold, than that stuff. I never looked into it again after that.

If it worked that quick, I think that pure water would have had the same effect.

As far as "research" goes and all that, from what I understand, Brian has been using this method to get rid of mild respiratory infections/illness successfully for a number of years now. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out why it works. It's simple. Direct contact with a disinfectant kills the infection which is lining the respiratory system.

100% correct! The thing is that it is a 1:500 dilution ratio I wouldn't directly put this stuff in the nebulizer. It's actually not too expensive if you just buy a little bit of it. 10 mL will treat 5L so that's pretty good right there. And that's exactly how it works it just kills off the bacteria lining the lungs and the water helps to soothe their lungs. It's sorta like putting a humidifier in your room when you are sick.

01-11-2013, 08:16 PM

Greg'sGarters

Re: Nebulization of Sick/New Snakes

Guys, something else I want to add, this is simply for the benefit of the snake. If your snake is suffering, it's better to give him a little time with this until they can get to a qualified vet.