Black Sabbath Officially Reject Bill Ward

Black Sabbath have officially ended negotiations with founding drummer Bill Ward, four months after he rejected their offer to perform in their reunion.
In a lengthy post on his website, Bill explains that his last-ditch attempts to come to a deal fell flat when the band would only let him join their homecoming show if he played for free.
"It is with a very sad heart that I bring you this news," he wrote. "I am sincerely passionate in my desire to play with the band, and I'm very, very sorry that it's fallen to this. This statement is even more painstaking to write, as I was particularly excited to play alongside [guitarist] Tony Iommi after the recent treatments he underwent." Iommi was diagnosed with cancer in January, shortly after the band announced their reunion.
Bill doesn't want to blame the band for their situation, but defends his choices - even when it hurts to let his fans down:
"Throughout this process, which began over a year ago, I have had to stand up for myself time and time again. I have had to stand up for myself and in doing so realize my actions indirectly, although unintentionally, are upsetting and hurting a lot of you.
"I made a solemn vow after the last European and Ozzfest concerts that I would never again enter into what was, in my opinion, a totally unsatisfactory contract. I have to stand for something, and as painful as it is, I'm doing it."
The letter reveals details of what happened behind-the-scenes since we last reported on their negotiations in February.
In April, Bill was asked to participate "minimally" in their headline slot at Download festival. "I believe I'd been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath," he wrote.
Bill only heard about their April 30 homecoming show in Birmingham through the Internet at the same time as the fans: "I was upset by the idea that the band was going to play Birmingham and play it assumedly without me. I had no prior knowledge of the date and location, and I felt totally excluded."
Despite keeping his drum crew on standby since mid-January, Bill was told by the band's lawyers that he could "come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."
"I was tempted," wrote Bill, but it wasn't enough. "I can't prioritize the Sabbath fans making one show more important than the other. I can't do that. All of you are important. It's all the gigs or none at all."
Bill's team asked the band whether the negotiations were at an end on May 9th,. The next day, the band's representative confirmed it was over.
"In my opinion, nobody wins this time; the band doesn't win; the fans for an original lineup don't win," wrote Bill. "Nobody wins. Even the ones who thought they did."
While Bill remains open to a fair contract to perform in the original lineup, it looks like this chapter in Black Sabbath's history is closed. Sadly, it could also be their last.

In the end, it's gonna be a couple of Sabbath dates and the rest "Ozzy & Friends".
Well, it made me happy for a couple of weeks last year when the news of a full-on Sabbath reunion broke. Looks like that's all I'm gonna get out of it.

Please just put the speculation to rest...
Were you unsatisfied with the payment you'd be receiving and tried to leverage the situation to receive a higher cut? Or were you honestly just getting boned by Sharon from the get go?

the band would only let him join their homecoming show if he played for free.

Offering to play for free is a good deed.
Being told you have to or you're out of the band is a cu ntish move by the rest of the band. And by the rest of the band I probably only mean Ozzy.
Don't think I'll go support them at Download this year. Best wishes to Iommi though.

That's too bad. They're probably going to have Vinny Appice on drums now... who's ok and can play Ward's parts (and his own) but he won't be nearly as good to write and record with as Ward if they do end up making a new record.

It's possible it might have something to do with his health. He was only offered a contract to play 3 songs at Download and they offered to let him play at Birmingham to "see how it went", it sounds to me that they might be worried he isn't up to it all. Btw I've heard that Tommy Clufetos is the guy going to playing Download and playing on the new album too, as sad as it sounds

I really wonder how much of this is true and how much Bill is just trying to get sympathy. Why wouldn't they attempt to get the original Sabbath together? Why would they only want him to play select shows or songs? I understand that Ozzy and Tony may be paid more but I would assume he would be making the same as Geezer. It seems more like he had very high expectations for his payment and when he wasn't getting those he tries to make it sound like they are lowballing him.

Abacus11 wrote:
That's too bad. They're probably going to have Vinny Appice on drums now... who's ok and can play Ward's parts (and his own) but he won't be nearly as good to write and record with as Ward if they do end up making a new record.

Vinny is currently playing in a band called Kill Devil Hill with Rex Brown of Pantera fame. [Opening for them, this Friday. Stoked.] He has already declined the offer to join them, if they ask.

I don't completely understand what is going on here, either. It seems like the other band members would be stoked to have Bill on board. I know he's suffered health problems, in the past, and, like Ozzy, Geezer, and Tony, is also getting up in his years....but....Why would they just expect him to be pushed around like that?
It seems Bill was always the one to get the shaft, after all these years. I suppose they expected him to just go along with it. I don't know, but I don't support this 'reunion' if Bill Ward is not on stage. I just don't. It's not Black Sabbath without Bill.

So hang on, I'm assuming he would be the only member of the band to play for free, assuming he'd agreed to that? And the other guys woulda got some sort of payment?
Cos when i first read this article, I figured they were all gonna be playing free. Very naive, perhaps.
But if they're getting paid and he wasn't offered shit for his time, then good on him, and shame on the other guys!

p_a_morgan wrote:
Abacus11 wrote:
That's too bad. They're probably going to have Vinny Appice on drums now... who's ok and can play Ward's parts (and his own) but he won't be nearly as good to write and record with as Ward if they do end up making a new record.
Vinny is currently playing in a band called Kill Devil Hill with Rex Brown of Pantera fame. [Opening for them, this Friday. Stoked.] He has already declined the offer to join them, if they ask.

Yeah I've heard Kill Devil Hill, they're horrendous. So if Appice won't do it I wonder who will end up behind the drumkit... Mike Bordin maybe? I'm just guessing now.

You know I recently seen an interview with dio about right after he got kicked out of sabbath after the dehumanizer album. Basically he was talking about how Ozzy has an insane amount of power over the band, even when they weren't with him, and he shit talks to them all the time to.
Interviews here (starts talking about it at 2:15):

This means I'm skipping them at Lollapallooza this year. Nothing worth seeing. I could go to any concert and hear songs from Black Sabbath. It would have been unique ot have seen the actual Sabbath. Too bad.

I remember when Sabbath posted that countdown and that video announcing their comeback on their website. I had a huge smile on my face...
The only thing that I can do looking at this article is shrug. Anyway, at least Iommi seems to be recovering very well from that stupid disease.

Abacus11 wrote:
p_a_morgan wrote:
Abacus11 wrote:
That's too bad. They're probably going to have Vinny Appice on drums now... who's ok and can play Ward's parts (and his own) but he won't be nearly as good to write and record with as Ward if they do end up making a new record.
Vinny is currently playing in a band called Kill Devil Hill with Rex Brown of Pantera fame. [Opening for them, this Friday. Stoked.] He has already declined the offer to join them, if they ask.
Yeah I've heard Kill Devil Hill, they're horrendous. So if Appice won't do it I wonder who will end up behind the drumkit... Mike Bordin maybe? I'm just guessing now.

Yeah, well, it's called 'Ozzy and Friends' so, maybe Bordin. I think Mike's a great drummer. No one can be compared to Bill, but I think Mike could pull it off, easily.
The Ozzy and Friends tour is supposed to be Ozzy, Geezer, Zakk, Slash, and 'other guests.' So, we'll see.

I've seen a lot of people lately who don't even think the rhythm section even matters, and who are going to these shows essentially to say they saw Ozzy first, Iommi second. Which I find funny; if Iommi truly carried Sabbath on his back and was a lone wolf in writing genius music, people would hold Eternal Idol or Tyr at the same level as their classic Ozzy/Dio material.

I bet Tony Iommi's greedy ass is behind all of this. He's been screwing over his band mates for decades now. Its such a shame that they can't all be treated equally and fairly. Bill always gets the short end of the stick. =(

"I believe Id been offered no more than three songs to play while another drummer presumably played the rest of the show with Black Sabbath,"
...
"come to the UK, play for free and see how the first show goes."

What if Bill Ward can't play the drums anymore like he used to? It would be sad, but it would be even more sad if they toured with him and he couldn't play the way he used to anymore.
If Bill thinks he is still up for it, but the other Sabbath members don't see him reaching the required drum level, it would be very clear why all this is happening. Money can't change his ability
Could someone link me a recent live performance of Bill Ward?
I am only mentioning this as a possible reason and do not mean to insult Bill Ward or other members/fans in any way!

ZWH wrote:
I totally understand Bill in this situation. Black Sabbath without anyone from the original line-up isn't Black Sabbath.
lars17 wrote:
Whats so hard about giving him 25%? Why is this a problem all of a sudden after 43 years? I don't get it.
This.

I still don't understand why there's comments about Sharon on here. Black Sabbath is Tony's band, and if you read any past interviews from musicians he's worked with, he does this to everyone. His lawyers write up a contract in which you receive no money and no credit so that you have no control over anything in the band.
I love Iommi as a guitarist, but sorta hate his personality. Even with all this drama, I still can't wait to see them live. Sure it's lessened without Will Ward, but I guarantee I'll still end up with nosebleed seats.

Who is getting his share? Why even offer the free outlet to him when you know it's how he makes a living? I've always liked the Ozzy era Sabbath, and had no interest in anything with Dio or Appice or any of the other drummers. This whole thing's kind of tarnished for me now.

Iommianity wrote:
I've seen a lot of people lately who don't even think the rhythm section even matters, and who are going to these shows essentially to say they saw Ozzy first, Iommi second. Which I find funny; if Iommi truly carried Sabbath on his back and was a lone wolf in writing genius music, people would hold Eternal Idol or Tyr at the same level as their classic Ozzy/Dio material.

I completely agree with you.
Geezer and Bill are my favorite rhythm section and also my favorite bassist and drummer respectively.
Original line-up had that undeniable chemistry which gave birth to one of my favorite genres of music.

I don't think Sharon should entirely take all the flack for this, Tony Iommi's/Black Sabbath's management have been known to make some pretty harsh deals for the past 25-30 years. This possibly explains Bill and Geezer's drifting in and out of post Ozzy line ups.
The crooks of it all really is that Tony Iommi IS Black Sabbath and has been through the good and bad times, and I will be watching him at Download, whether he has Bill, Vinny or a Quadriplegic behind the drums.

SkepsisMetal wrote:
the band would only let him join their homecoming show if he played for free.
Offering to play for free is a good deed.
Being told you have to or you're out of the band is a ****ish move by the rest of the band. And by the rest of the band I probably only mean Ozzy.
Don't think I'll go support them at Download this year. Best wishes to Iommi though.

I'm definitely not missing my chance to see them at download this year, but yeah, that's a totally dick move on their part.

Sigh... I was planning on going to see the first half of the Sabbath show at Lolla then head over to see the Black Keys on the other side of the park. I think now I'll just stay at the Black Keys like everyone else I know was planning :/

It's really sad they can't get on the same page. Split the money the by 25%. Everyone get their equal cut. It really sad it has to come to this. Bill Ward was on those first albums during the Ozzy days and was just as big part of that band. It's sad because this might be the last shows/tour that these guys get to due and they can't even pay Bill what he deserves. It like when Ozzy try to sue the Iommi a few years back. Stop it. You guys were amazing. Stop being money greedy bastards. Get up there and play together like the legends you are for one last time for all of us fans. Dio is gone. Iommi has cancer. Lets put this crap to bed, so we can one last Sabbath reunion before another core member of Black Sabbath dies.

boo hoo youre not getting paid as much as youd like. Go and honor the band and the fans that made you in this world. This is your golden opportunity and you're turning it all away on the count of money.

sucks...wouldn't surprise me if Sharon demanded 40%+ for ozz or no reunion...very disappointing that my 1st favorite band in 1974 has become greedy capitalists in the new millenium. screw the Mayan calendar, this is a true sign of the apocolypse!

Abacus11 wrote:
p_a_morgan wrote:
Abacus11 wrote:
That's too bad. They're probably going to have Vinny Appice on drums now... who's ok and can play Ward's parts (and his own) but he won't be nearly as good to write and record with as Ward if they do end up making a new record.
Vinny is currently playing in a band called Kill Devil Hill with Rex Brown of Pantera fame. [Opening for them, this Friday. Stoked.] He has already declined the offer to join them, if they ask.
Yeah I've heard Kill Devil Hill, they're horrendous. So if Appice won't do it I wonder who will end up behind the drumkit... Mike Bordin maybe? I'm just guessing now.

I think Mike Bordin is too busy with Faith No More again. This is a shame. Don't the other remember when they were a struggling band before they became Sabbath? Wasn't all for one and one for all? Didn't Geezer write most of the songs so shouldn't it be Geezer and Friends?

Man. Contract law sucks.
You know what would be awesome, a free loving music fest where legendary artists just play their shit get their cut. You know, minus the labels, just have "anonymous" dudes play classic tunes but everyone knows what's up. RESPECT. This goes out to all contributing members of Kyuss!
KYUSS LIVES! SABBATH LIVES! **** the bull shit, bang out those tunes brothers!!
Also sorry dude, this doesn't really compare to Sublime w/ Rome bc the new Sabbath release actually has potential to be solid despite line-up changes and everyone is still alive

slap-a-bass wrote:
boo hoo youre not getting paid as much as youd like. Go and honor the band and the fans that made you in this world. This is your golden opportunity and you're turning it all away on the count of money.

Read the article again... he wants to play all the shows or none at all. They only want him to play 1 show, and see how that goes.

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I hope the crowd at Download and Lolapalooza get right on their backs for this, **** them if they want to marginalise a key component of the early sound due to who gets paid what... bollocks. Played with a Sabbath tribute on Friday night, they were great, AND treated each other as equals... get them in!!

This whole reunion thing was nothing but a money spinner from the get go. It should never of happened. So instead of thinking Iommi, Geezer, Osbourne metal Gods who are legends I now think Iommi, Geezer, Osbourne money grabbing bastards.
Ok, I understand it's probably not those individuals as such, but I would have thought one of them would have had the spine to say to their management team " hey, **** this, give Bill his dignity and lets do this for the right reasons"
But obviously pound/dollar signs mean more than integrity...
Sad, very sad.

It looks to me like the money wasn't really the issue for the other band members but rather whether Bill still has the chops to do the job. If you read Tony Iommi's book it always seems that Bill was a little "unpredictable" - add to that the fact that the others have all been consistently delivering over the years, my guessis that this is about ability rather than money

"It looks to me like the money wasn't really the issue for the other band members but rather whether Bill still has the chops to do the job. If you read Tony Iommi's book it always seems that Bill was a little "unpredictable" - add to that the fact that the others have all been consistently delivering over the years, my guessis that this is about ability rather than money "
hmmm... Here is why your argument is not valid.. this is a reunion for a few shows before they all retire. This is not an extended career, that's one. Second, the drummer has never been an issue for the fans, so if this is about the fans then why make it an issue. Third, with Heaven & Hell all the musical work was awesome, drums included.
Only one thing has changed, and that is Sharon... as many posters pointed out. She's greedy, and Ozzy is speechless... in more ways than one!

zaz5 - I'm not trying to advance an argument for validation. I'm offering an opinion which I still hold and I respect that you have a different one. I'm also concerned that Tony will be fit enough to do Sabbath justice after his illness. Honestly, the fact that we are still talking about gigs when clearly the band isn't currently functional seems to say a lot about everybody's attitude to the money

yeah but what if he just quits the band randomly after he gets what he thinks is his due, he's left the band so many times due to lack of interest or disliking of touring (so maybe he doesnt deserve the cut the more dedicated have)they could just be tired of it, maybe id rather not see him if he really doesnt enjoy himself touring and maybe even really playing, the rest of them are always active and playing and writing, but not him really huh? If I were him id be psyched to be a part of sabbath no matter what... its almost a slap in the face to thousands of wannabe drummers like me who in their dreams would kill to be bill

zaz5 wrote:
"It looks to me like the money wasn't really the issue for the other band members but rather whether Bill still has the chops to do the job. If you read Tony Iommi's book it always seems that Bill was a little "unpredictable" - add to that the fact that the others have all been consistently delivering over the years, my guessis that this is about ability rather than money "
hmmm... Here is why your argument is not valid.. this is a reunion for a few shows before they all retire. This is not an extended career, that's one. Second, the drummer has never been an issue for the fans, so if this is about the fans then why make it an issue. Third, with Heaven & Hell all the musical work was awesome, drums included.
Only one thing has changed, and that is Sharon... as many posters pointed out. She's greedy, and Ozzy is speechless... in more ways than one!

No, here's why your argument 'is not valid'. This reunion was not announced as a few shows before retirement, it was announced as a full tour and album. Then Tony got sick. Sharon doesn't represent Black Sabbath, and has no say in who plays drums or makes what. She's said this. The band has said this. They have individual managers, and a group manager. Heaven and Hell (the band) programmed the drums for their last album and had Vinnie Appice simply record along to them; it's something he's been talking about lately, and the reason why that album has some of the most boring drums on a Sabbath album.
Hardcore Sabs fans absolutely care about the rhythm section and who's behind the kit. Tony absolutely writes and plays based on the musicians around him. It's why early Sabbath had open jam parts and Tony focused more on single note riffing or power chords. The rhythm section was ***** tight, and Bill orchestrated his parts to make every riff stand out. On some of the 80s albums, Tony is just lumbering along while the drummer goes 'bmmm chh'