The latest controversy is over the posthumous baptisms of the parents of famous holocaust victims’ advocate Simon Wiesenthal. The Jewish human rights center named for Mr. Wiesenthal issued a statement that clearly expresses frustration with the LDS Church:

“We are outraged that such insensitive actions continue in the Mormon Temples. Throughout his life, Simon Wiesenthal especially revered his beloved mother who was deported and murdered at Belzec death camp in 1942. Such actions make a mockery of the many meetings with the top leadership of the Mormon Church dating back to 1995 that focused on the unwanted and unwarranted posthumous baptisms of Jewish Victims of the Nazi Holocaust,” said Rabbi Abraham Cooper, associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center and who participated in many of the high-level meetings between Jews with Mormon officials.

“We note that these rites were undertaken and confirmed in Mormon Temples in Utah, Arizona, and Idaho. Further meetings with Church leaders on this matter are useless. The only way such insensitive practices would finally stop is if Church leaders finally decided to change their practices and policies on posthumous baptisms, a move which this latest outrage proves that they are unwilling to do. We are grateful to activist Helen Radkey for exposing the latest outrage.”

LDS officials in Salt Lake City were quick to apologize Monday, saying that the Utah-based faith “sincerely regret[s] that the actions of an individual member … led to the inappropriate submission of these names,” which were “clearly against the policy of the church.”

“We consider this a serious breach of our protocol,” spokesman Scott Trotter said in a statement, “and we have suspended indefinitely this person’s ability to access our genealogy records.”

So after 15 years of broken promises to the Jewish people, the Mormon Church regrets that its protocol was breached. I doubt that this brings much comfort to those deeply wounded by the continuing LDS baptisms of their beloved deceased family members, especially when considered in light of a 2007 statement made by Church spokesman Mark Tuttle. When responding to reports that the Church had “apologized” for the Mountain Meadows Massacre, Mr. Tuttle clarified, “We don’t use the word ‘apology.’ We used ‘profound regret.'”

As I’ve said before, proxy Mormon baptism of Jewish Holocaust victims is a very complicated issue. I understand the position of the Jewish community in regards to their deceased ancestors, and I understand the position of the LDS community in regards to their perceived religious duty. There is no easy solution that will fulfill the wishes of everyone. But one thing seems clear: When the Mormon Church makes promises it will not or cannot keep, in the words of Rabbi Cooper, “This wound remains open.”

The promise to the Jewish community about baptism is one empty promise coming out of Mormonism. Another–one that I find deeply troubling–is this: All men (in the company of their spouses) may follow the same path to Godhood as the God of this world, Heavenly Father, has done; the same as all Gods have done before Him.

“We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share” (James Talmage, The Articles of Faith, p. 430).

“The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven. That is the truth about it, just as it is” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses 3:93).

“Here, then, is eternal life–to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one; from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings, and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 346-347).

According to the Bible, this is a promise that cannot be kept (e.g., see Isaiah 43:10; Isaiah 44:8; Isaiah 46:9; Malachi 3:6; Psalm 90:2)–and its failure will cost those who trust in it their very souls.

I plead with those who cling to Mormonism’s empty promises to turn from them and instead place your faith in the One True God–the One who promises eternal life to all who trust in Him (John 3:16). With full confidence, place your faith in the One whose promises cannot fail.

For all the promises of God find their Yes in Him. That is why it is through Him that we utter our Amen to God for His glory. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

About Sharon Lindbloom

Sharon surrendered her life to the Lord Jesus Christ in 1979. Deeply passionate about Truth, Sharon loves serving as a full-time volunteer research associate with Mormonism Research Ministry. Sharon and her husband live in Minnesota.

132 Responses to Mormons Still Baptizing Deceased Holocaust Victims

Rick B says: – February 24, 2012 at 9:13 am – (when I ask you how these prophets and LDS sources dont contradict one another and you never reply to that)

I just went back over this blog and found where I showed you that you had posted your own answer in your question, and yet you choose not to see it. You have to want the answer to see it.

(you claim I am not doing anything.)

I never said that, you have a habit of restating things in a way that never happened, then with your strawman argument you tell me I must correct things I never did. The more I hear from you, the more I understand how you can hide the truth from yourself.

I just went back over this blog and found where I showed you that you had posted your own answer in your question, and yet you choose not to see it. You have to want the answer to see it.

While you were going back over the blog and the reply’s did you notice the many, many questions everyone has asked you? and did you notice the lack of answers from yourself? If you say yes you did, then can you tell us why you did not and cannot answer them? If you say, no I never noticed, then you need me to post them for you?

“………you can again put me down and sidestep your responsibility in learning the truth.”

fred,
rick and the rest of us have put in the time and effort to learn about Mormonism. When you say “truth” what you are screaming is, “Why won’t you believe Mormonism?” See that’s the definition of “truth” for you. It should really be the word “believe”. We know the truth about Joseph Smith and Mormonism. Based on our considerable study, we don’t believe it. We reject it as false. We have concluded that it’s a fraud base on considerable study and in communion with God, led by the Holy Spirit.
So I think you better get your head straight about this. There isn’t any secret information or stone that we have left unturned (magic or other wise) in our pursuit of information regarding Joseph Smith and Mormonism.
Please tell us fred something we don’t already know? We know the story. We know the claims. We’ve sifted through the information. Now if you’ve got something in your tote bag of vast information that we don’t have, please share it.
Again fred, we have the information. We reject it as false. You’re totally out of bullets and you’ve resorted to simply throwing your gun. The gun is to constantly repeat that we won’t “discover” the truth. There’s nothing left to discover fred. We simply don’t believe it. The only reason you call it the “truth” is because you believe Mormonism and therefore it becomes “true” for you.
Basically fred all you are doing is repeating your same simple phrase over and over again which tells me you need to study Mormonism a lot more and in doing so discover that it is not true but indeed false.
But hay, if the fantasy flips your switch have had it.

So fred,
What “truth” are we all missing? Kate was a forty year Mormon. What did she miss? grindael was a Mormon. Served a mission for the LDS church and went to BYU. He got into the archives and began studying source documents. It led him to conclude that Mormonism is a fraud. What “truth” did he miss?
Is there something about the Mormon god that we’ve missed? He’s one of millions perhaps billions of gods who were all former men and who, through adherence to ancient principles, rituals, knowledge, wisdom and right living, all became gods. He lives some where on or near the planet Kolob with his many wives where they in some form or manner procreate spirit children. These spirit children are then born to human parents where they then get to repeat the process and become gods themselves.
Jesus is the spirit offspring of this Mormon god and one of his many wives. He is not “God” incarnate but a created being in the same manner as all people.
So that’s just a couple items fred. Is there some truth there that we are missing?
We also know that when JS started out his quest to form a religion, he had a fairly conventional view of who God is and did in fact include this in the BoM. He then changed his mind and came up with a whole new “god”.
So fred you need to help us out here with what we’re missing in terms of “truth”. The fact of the matter is you have no clue fred. You just keep repeating the same tired line over and over again trying, it seems, to convince yourself that this fraud is true.
We know the facts about Mormonism, the things you call truth. We reject them.

Fred,
Along the lines of what Falcon said. Why is it every single LDS member says, and I mean everyone of them says the same thing.

Any Mormon who left the church, even Mormons who were life long Mormons, 40 years or more, are angry with the church or are in sin, or somehow it is their fault, they left the faith. That is what LDS say.

I have had mormons tell me, Read the BoM and pray about it, I have read it along with the D and C and the pearl and many other LDS books. Yet when I say I read them and prayed about them and felt God say the LDS church is false, then it is put back on me, I was not sincere, or I did not really read the Book, Or I did not get all the facts and really study it out, Etc.

Say what you want, but it is Mob mentality for you. It is always some how are fault, we lack faith, we dont study hard enough, we dont listen to you, whatever, say what you want but this is the case. Then we point out to you and other LDS, the bible says to contend for the faith, search the scriptures, give any man an answer, Etc. Yet LDS simply do not do this, and when we/I point this out and ask how you really do do this, you either dodge the question, or say, I am pointing you in the right direction. Pointing me in a direction is not giving an answer or contending for the faith. You have not and are not showing the love of Christ, if you claim I am wrong, give details as to exactly how you have shown the Love of Christ.

So according to fred, we all have to study harder to find the truth of the restored gospel of Mormonism.
Kate, grindael, Mike R, spartacus, Sharon, rick can any of you think of what it might be, this truth, that we have missed in our study that we’ve already done? I really can’t think of anything. Is there some secret piece of information, some factoid that if we had it BANG Mormonism would suddenly all become clear and we’d go, “BONK I should have had a V8”?
I’ve studied Christianity inside and out from a historical as well as theological perspective. I’ve prayed diligently. I have had supernatural experiences in my life. I’ve had God confirm to me the truth of the revelation contained in the Bible as I’m sure all of you have. I don’t think I can pray any harder or any more sincerely regarding who God is and what He has done for me through His Son Jesus Christ.
Is there some additional thing we have to do to get right with God? No, I don’t think so. God’s plan is not complicated. It’s not hidden. It’s not difficult to understand. The key ingredient is faith. There is nothing that can be added to it to get us right with God.
So as to the five points of the Mormon testimony, I reject it. There’s nothing in it that contains the truth. In fact quite to the contrary it is false from beginning to end. There is no additional piece of information that will make it true. Jesus warned about false prophets with false gospels. Knowing the Lord Jesus Christ in a personal way is the only path to the father. Any thing else is a road to destruction, a dead end.

Falcon, I’m sure that I mentioned this a few times but it bares repeating I guess.
30 years ago I spent a lot of time and money looking into the claims of Mormonism .
I could list the Mormon publications that I purchased , it’s a long list , from many
of the sermons of the early leaders right up thru to the 1970’s. This gave me a very
well rounded view of Mormon doctrine. I talked to at least a dozen Missionaries over
a 5 year time frame and wrote some letters to a Mormon apostle [ LeGrand Richards].
My conclusion was this : The vast majority of Mormons are decent people who are
striving to serve God , but they have detoured by their leaders into false doctrine on
some very vital issues, issues that directly effect a relationship with God . I came to
see that Mormon prophets/apostles , despite their claim of being personally directed
by Jesus to teach spiritual truth, have only exhibited behavior that reveals them to be
unreliable in what they have taught as the gospel of Jesus . Therefore I had no choice
but to see them as the true apostles in the N.T. described them — false prophets and
apostles . As I have said before not all false prophets are immoral or devious men , this
is a mistake many people make when we say “false” prophets etc. So for me the verdict
is in: Mormon people = yes. MormonISM = no .

Mike,
Great post and great report.
But you and I know the Mormon response, right? What do we know of the Mormon mindset? If you don’t accept the Mormon narrative as “true” then you did something wrong. The only correct answer and one that is acceptable to the Mormon is that Mormonism is true, period!
Nothing else matters except that Mormonism is “true”. It doesn’t matter if the Mormon prophets contradict themselves or each other, Mormonism is true. It doesn’t matter if JS changed his mind on who God is, that there are countless changes in the BoM, that the BoA is a total ruse or that JS married young girls and married women, Mormonism is true. It doesn’t matter that their is absolutely no archeological evidence that supports the BoM, that DNA evidence proves that the American Indians are of Asian origin and not Jewish, and that linguistic evidence shows no support for a Jewish origin for the Indians. Mormonism is true.
Any explanation to support the notion that Mormonism is true, no matter how nonsensical, off the wall and just plain not true; Mormonism is true.
There’s no reasoning with this mind-set. Among TBMs nothing will dissuade them from what they desire to believe.
Thankfully a lot of Mormons figure it out and leave.

So fred tells us that if we just study more we will come to the truth and that truth, that nugget or nuggets of information, will convince us that Mormonism with it’s restored gospel is the ultimate spiritual truth.
I find this kind of interesting because we are usually told that the way to discover the “truth” of Mormonism is to read the BoM and pray to God to personally reveal to us if it’s true. The procedure is said to produce a “burning in the bosom” which is a type of a physical response indicating that God is confirming that the BoM is in fact a revealed truth.
The interesting thing about the process, other than the fact that it can be illicited and produced by the power of suggestion, is that it’s a supposed reliable test for truth. So someone prays, reads the BoM, gets a warm feeling about the story and therefore all of Mormonism is true. So the procedure, while prayed about to get confirmation of the BoM, now is transferred to all the different elements of Mormonism (not just the BoM). It seems that the LDS church has expanded the scope of the pray for the truth of the BoM.
The other interesting ploy of Mormonism is the “in addition to” or “upping the ante” psychology of the pray for a testimony of the BoM. Here’s how it works. The only acceptable answer for a Mormon, is that the BoM is true. So if someone reads it and doesn’t get a testimony regarding it the person didn’t pray, they didn’t pray correctly, they weren’t humble and sincere and finally just keep reading it over and over until the bosom burning comes.

Falcon,
when it comes to Mormons saying, A burning in the Bosom is proof, I must disagree.
But them LDS would expect me to anyway. First off the Bible never says “Pray” about truth. I have meet many Mormons who have said, the never prayed about the BoM and never received a burning in the bosom, yet still believe.

I love hot food, hot peppers so hot they could blister your mouth. I have eaten the super hot Ghost Chili, and use it in 2 of my 3 spice blends. So really spicy foods, or certain foods can cause this burning in the bosom. But we all know LDS will simply ignore the fact that a burning in the Bosom can come from spicy foods or other things.

Falcon;
You have a habit of saying I said things I did not say, and then you use your “new truth” to prove I am wrong.

fred

Fred, I cannot speak on this, it’s between you guys, But I will say this, You have a habit of avoiding questions, claiming you have and know the truth, claim the facts our out their and then not share any of this with us. Here is an example, I am a professional Chef and Baker, I can read recipes and formulas. Yet the vast majority of people in general cannot, this is why their are many problems with the average home cook. If I took your approach and said to people, whats the matter, all the information is right in front of you, cant you read? How hard can it be to make a cake?

You cannot claim to have all the truth, and say it’s right their if you simply open your eyes. Then when we claim to have looked over all this info, and we dont see what you see, you cant blame us. We even provide what we feel is contradictions, and instead of explain how they are not and how we missed something, you either say we are wrong, or tell us were no really looking. So as I asked before, How is this helpful to us? And exactly how are you being Christ like and showing us the Love of Christ? IMO you are not.

Rick B says: – February 25, 2012 at 6:48 pm – (If I took your approach and said to people, whats the matter, all the information is right in front of you, cant you read? How hard can it be to make a cake?)

After a few thousand times of “cooks” stopping at the end of the first page and saying there is no second page I think you would also think like I do.

Fred, When you claim to have the truth, but do not share it, this shows you L-I-E.
When LDS claim to follow the Lord and claim to call Him saviour, yet they do not, cannot, will not show the Love of Christ, this shows the L-I-E.

When I ask you show me and tell me exactly how you are showing the love of Christ to us who are lost, and you cannot answer that question, or choose not to, this shows you are a L-I-A-R.

And it shows you follow your father and Jesus told us, the Devil is the Father of L-I-E-S, AND you speak his language. If you say I am wrong, then answer my question and tell me how, not just say, Because you said so and believe it.

Fred, perhaps I missed it , but could you tell me what was the work you did to find
the truth ? Can you please be specific . I’m not so concerned with the problems you
may have seen among some ” Protestants ” in the South , rather how did you arrive at
the point that you knew the Mormon gospel ( not Church ) was the true gospel ?
Again, be very be specific ( and please no links to Mormon apologetic sites ) Thanks.

It is easier for you to say that then for you to do the work necessary to find the truth.

fred

Typical LDS dodge. Again you avoid my questions and tell me I am simply not searching for the truth.

Again, please explain how you are being Christ like, and explain How if I say I read all 4 standered works, Went to SLC and toured the temple, Have been to many LDS church services, Bought and read the JoD. Miracle of forgiveness, The Original D and C with the original Lectures of faith bound in them, Read numerous other LDS books, have flat out showed you quotes from LDS prophets, presidents, other LDS members and sources that clearly contradict one another, and you keep saying over and over, I am at fault, I am not really looking, or I dont really care. You keep beating your little drum, But unless you can answer these questions, It really shows I am right in my thinking of you, and you are not proving me wrong, all you are doing is blowing smoke to keep people from seeing the truth.

We both know you wont answer me, if you say anything at all, it will be more of the same, I am not really looking even though I have more than proven I am and have.

Man alive fred!
Would you please show some connection to reality. I, along with the other Christian posters here, have been very specific with you, with detailed presentations, requesting that you give us your truth. rick is right in insisting that you actually formulate an actual presentation of this truth and not just list a bunch of LDS websites.
But, as rick has correctly pointed out, we go through this continually with a certain type of Mormon. That is, a simple recitation of “study and find the truth”. It has been pointed out to you that those of us who post here have studied Mormonism up-side-down and inside-out, this includes those who have been Mormons and left (the LDS church) after detailed research.
So again I ask you, give us that nugget of truth that we Christians are missing. The fact of the matter is you can’t provide one scintilla of evidence to support the claims of the Mormon restored gospel. We have pointed out to you that Mormonism has at least seventy different sects all claiming a prophet who speaks for God. These various sects all claim the “truth”. So there isn’t one restored gospel but a variety of mind bending assertions and claims.
Once again fred, all that I can conclude is that you are either incredibly lazy, or ignorant of the facts of Mormonism, or indoctrinated beyond reason or blinded by a spirit of deception that is blocking normal thought process.
Repeating continually, “study and find the truth”, is tantamount to the kid who says, “If you don’t know I’m not going to tell you”, revealing that (the kid) doesn’t know the answer himself.
I would suggest fred that you take your own advice by putting aside your desire for Mormonism to be true, and engage in some real inquiry and research.

Maybe fred you could tell us the truth about Joseph Smith first vision out there in the little grove of trees. At last count there was something like eight versions give or take, of Joseph Smith’s magnificent adventure in the woods. In the first version, he went to the woods to seek confirmation of the forgiveness of his sins. I think this was pretty standard operational procedure in that era. In fact if you’ll take a look at Charles Finney’s testimony it bears a striking resemblance to Smith’s story. They lived in the same proximity at the same time and Finney became a famous Christian evangelist. I would guess that his account of his conversion was pretty widely reported.
“North of the village, and over a hill, lay a piece of woods, in which I was in the almost daily habit of walking, more or less, when it was pleasant weather. It was now October, and the time was past for my frequent walks there. Nevertheless, instead of going to the office, I turned and bent my course toward the woods, feeling that I must be alone, and away from all human eyes and ears, so that I could pour out my prayer to God.”
So Finney went out into the woods to seek God. The above quote is from his personal testimony.

“There was no fire, and no light, in the room; nevertheless it appeared to me as if it were perfectly light. As I went in and shut the door after me, it seemed as if I met the Lord Jesus Christ face to face. It did not occur to me then, nor did it for some time afterward, that it was wholly a mental state. On the contrary it seemed to me that I saw Him as I would see any other man. He said nothing, but looked at me in such a manner as to break me right down at his feet. I have always since regarded this as a most remarkable state of mind; for it seemed to me a reality, that He stood before me, and I fell down at his feet and poured out my soul to Him. I wept aloud like a child, and made such confessions as I could with my choked utterance. It seemed to me that I bathed His feet with my tears; and yet I had no distinct impression that I touched Him, that I recollect.”

“I must have continued in this state for a good while; but my mind was too much absorbed with the interview to recollect anything that I said. But I know, as soon as my mind became calm enough to break off from the interview, I returned to the front office, and found that the fire that I had made of large wood was nearly burned out. But as I turned and was about to take a seat by the fire, I received a mighty baptism of the Holy Ghost.”

To finish his account of his encounter with the Lord Jesus and the anointing of the Holy Spirit Finney wrote:
No words can express the wonderful love that was shed abroad in my heart. I wept aloud with joy and love; and I do not know but I should say, I literally bellowed out the unutterable gushings of my heart. These waves came over me, and over me, and over me, one after the other, until I recollect I cried out, “I shall die if these waves continue to pass over me.” I said, “Lord, I cannot bear any more;” yet I had no fear of death.

“How long I continued in this state, with this baptism continuing to roll over me and go through me, I do not know. But I know it was late in the evening when a member of my choir–for I was the leader of the choir–came into the office to see me. He was a member of the church. He found me in this state of loud weeping, and said to me, “Mr. Finney, what ails you?” I could make him no answer for some time. He then said, “Are you in pain?” I gathered myself up as best I could, and replied, “No, but so happy that I cannot live.”

Now the main difference between Finney’s account and his subsequent life and Joseph Smith’s is that Finney had an encounter with the living Christ. Joseph Smith did not.
That encounter led Finney to follow Jesus and preach the true gospel and bring people to repentance and a knowledge of the saving grace that the Father offers all who are willing to accept the gift of eternal life He offers.
There is no truth in Mormonism no matter how sincerely someone wants to believe Smith’s tale.

Fred,
The Bible gives a list of people who will not enter heaven. On that list is people who are not honest, they do not tell the truth, those kinds of people.

Sadly you fit that list and will end up being cast into the lake of fire. I’m still waiting for you to explain how many of us can read and research all the books that we have, most likely the same books you read and maybe even more than you. yet you claim that we are not really doing our homework. How exactly is that possible? And how exactly are you being Christ like and showing the love of Christ.

I notice a pattern with you, you dont answer questions that you have no answer for, then when you keep getting asked over and over, you find a way to vaguely put it on us, it’s some how our fault. Funny how that works.

[Fred, I have removed your comment regarding moderation, per my earlier warning and Mormon Coffee’scomment policy. However, since your comment included accusations of dishonesty of Mormonism Research Ministry and its staff, I will try one more time to explain MRM’s podcast comment protocol. None of the podcasts are meant to accept comments. Podcasts are not intended to foster any sort of blog activity. For some of the podcast posts, “allow comments” (default setting) was mistakenly left on. Then, when a commment was received, we became aware that the setting was incorrect, so we corrected it, which resulted in no comments. To my knowledge, this has happened twice. We hope that the protocol for posting podcasts is now standardized and there will be no further confusion. -Sharon]

I think in addition to removing Fred’s comments Fred should be removed also. I know you explained how this works before, and he wont be removed, I’m just saying he should since he cannot tell the truth to say his life.

Rick B says: – February 27, 2012 at 9:25 am – (Fred, I see you still refuse to answer me, this shows that the truth does not abide in you and you really do speak your fathers language. You accuse with out facts or evidence. Typical Mormon.)

The few answers I did give were ignored, so why should I think you would do different now?

The few answers I did give were ignored, so why should I think you would do different now?
fred

Really Fred? Where are the answers? I dont recall how you told me you were Christ Like, or showing us the love us Christ, or how you can say me and others are not really researching, when I told you just a few of the books I am reading or have read. How can you say I am not really searching when I read the same books as you and have done my research? You honestly cannot answer that question so you dodge it, and it makes you a dishonest person.

Fred, I found the truth and your giving LDS a bad name, Again you cannot answer questions so you just accuse with out evidence and simply blow people off. Your nothing more than a blog troll who just is used by the devil to waste peoples time. I guess I’m really done this time. I figure I have exposed you more than enough for everyone one here to see you cannot answer questions and will not.