Has anyone heard any info on this? I heard over the last few days that florida might look to move him. Especially since lowe is going to get guarenteed money now and with their salary problems. Rumors were is that they can move him because they will have castillo at the top of the order with speed and i think that pierre will be in for a big raise after this year. I wouldn;t mind seeing the sox try to pry him away and move rowand over. Great outfield of carlos, juan, and rowand. That would give us an excellent base stealer that can play a heck of a center field, and can lay down a bunt along with vizquel(if we get him). Vizquel has said that he doesn;t like to lead off so with pierre leading off he would fit fine in the #2 hole. But who knows, its ok to dream i guess.

jabrch

10-31-2004, 02:16 PM

Has anyone heard any info on this? I heard over the last few days that florida might look to move him. Especially since lowe is going to get guarenteed money now and with their salary problems. Rumors were is that they can move him because they will have castillo at the top of the order with speed and i think that pierre will be in for a big raise after this year. I wouldn;t mind seeing the sox try to pry him away and move rowand over. Great outfield of carlos, juan, and rowand. That would give us an excellent base stealer that can play a heck of a center field, and can lay down a bunt along with vizquel(if we get him). Vizquel has said that he doesn;t like to lead off so with pierre leading off he would fit fine in the #2 hole. But who knows, its ok to dream i guess.
Aren't we already set with Everett and Borchard in RF?

Seriously, with those two platooning in RF, I dont see spending money on Pierre in CF. We still need another front half of the rotation starter and some pen help. I can live with Carlos, Rowand and Ever/Borch if that enables us to get Pavano/Clement/Ortiz and some legit help in the pen.

California Sox

10-31-2004, 02:25 PM

Aren't we already set with Everett and Borchard in RF?

Seriously, with those two platooning in RF, I dont see spending money on Pierre in CF. We still need another front half of the rotation starter and some pen help. I can live with Carlos, Rowand and Ever/Borch if that enables us to get Pavano/Clement/Ortiz and some legit help in the pen.
I think I'm in a very small minority here, but I believe the Sox cannot tolerate the number of holes in the lineup that are currently contemplated. Look at how much the team struggled without Frank and Maggs in 2004. Maggs is gone, Frank could miss a month or more. If you've got Crede, Harris, Davis, and Borchard in the lineup, they are going to score 3 runs or less A LOT. In the Cell the other team is going to score no matter who's pitching. We need to have at least an average offensive team.

jabrch

10-31-2004, 02:31 PM

I think I'm in a very small minority here, but I believe the Sox cannot tolerate the number of holes in the lineup that are currently contemplated. Look at how much the team struggled without Frank and Maggs in 2004. Maggs is gone, Frank could miss a month or more. If you've got Crede, Harris, Davis, and Borchard in the lineup, they are going to score 3 runs or less A LOT. In the Cell the other team is going to score no matter who's pitching. We need to have at least an average offensive team.
Looks like Harris isn't going to be in the lineup. All the signs point to Vizquel as the SS and Uribe moving to 2B. Davis and Burke don't really bother me. I can live with them. Holes.... RF, DH and 3B. Crede - I guess I'll give him one more year. Can we live with Everett platooning with Borch after Frank gets back? Maybe... I'd rather see the money spent on pitching, both SP and RP. Get me Vizquel and Pavano or Clement along with 2 major bullpen arms and I'll deal with the rest of what we have. Won't be a championship calibre team, but should contend for the division again. Let's face it - the Sox aren't going to be a championship calibre team any time soon. So we need to focus on competing to win our division. That's about as high as our sights should be set until a more realistic financial model surfaces for this team. (either higher revenues ownership willing to lose money out of their own pockets to spend for a winner) Since I see neither happening in the near future, enjoy what we have - a team good enough to compete to win the AL Central, but not nearly one good enough to compete with Boston and New York.

Tragg

10-31-2004, 02:43 PM

Looks like Harris isn't going to be in the lineup. All the signs point to Vizquel as the SS and Uribe moving to 2B. Davis and Burke don't really bother me. I can live with them. Holes.... RF, DH and 3B. Crede - I guess I'll give him one more year. Can we live with Everett platooning with Borch after Frank gets back? Maybe... I'd rather see the money spent on pitching, both SP and RP. Get me Vizquel and Pavano or Clement along with 2 major bullpen arms and I'll deal with the rest of what we have. Won't be a championship calibre team, but should contend for the division again. Let's face it - the Sox aren't going to be a championship calibre team any time soon. So we need to focus on competing to win our division. That's about as high as our sights should be set until a more realistic financial model surfaces for this team. (either higher revenues ownership willing to lose money out of their own pockets to spend for a winner) Since I see neither happening in the near future, enjoy what we have - a team good enough to compete to win the AL Central, but not nearly one good enough to compete with Boston and New York.
The problem is that this swing and miss offense hasn't been good enough to win this division except once. And that's with Maggs.
And that includes 2003 when we had 2 top flight starters and a better pen than we do now.
We lose power- we need players to get on base so that we can score without power and/or when we do hit a homer, someone is on base to enjoy it with them.
Here is a guy who had a .374 OBP last year- now THAT is a real leadoff hitter, which would help our offense tremendously

In addition he makes 2.4 million.. 2.4 -and we would prefer to pay a 37 year old shortstop with inferior skills 4 MILLION?
Huh?

hitlesswonder

10-31-2004, 02:50 PM

Here is a guy who had a .374 OBP last year- now THAT is a real leadoff hitter, which would help our offense tremendously

In addition he makes 2.4 million.. 2.4 -and we would prefer to pay a 37 year old shortstop with inferior skills 4 MILLION?
Huh?
Great post. I agree the big problem with Sox offense was a lack of OBP, especially at the top of the order. I don't think Vizquel actually fixes that since his OBP last year was pretty much the same as Harris's (and that was a very good year for Vizquel). They still need a leadoff hitter. Pierre would be great, the only problem is that he's not a FA. I think FL would want a lot for him. But it would be nice, at least for me :smile: , to see the Sox focussing on what I think their biggest problems are: OBP and pitching.

nodiggity59

10-31-2004, 02:58 PM

The problem is that this swing and miss offense hasn't been good enough to win this division except once. And that's with Maggs.
And that includes 2003 when we had 2 top flight starters and a better pen than we do now.
We lose power- we need players to get on base so that we can score without power and/or when we do hit a homer, someone is on base to enjoy it with them.
Here is a guy who had a .374 OBP last year- now THAT is a real leadoff hitter, which would help our offense tremendously

In addition he makes 2.4 million.. 2.4 -and we would prefer to pay a 37 year old shortstop with inferior skills 4 MILLION?
Huh?
Excellent leadoff hitters are not available on FA market for that cheap. You have to develop them yourself in most cases.

If you look and the contenders, most of their leadoff hitters were pretty pricey. Except for Womack, but he was a surprise. If KW had picked him up last year, most folks here wouldn't have believed in him.

SOXBOY

10-31-2004, 03:16 PM

Pierre will fill one big hole at leadoff hitter and the whole outfield gets better with Lee RF,Pierre CF,and Rowand LF.Crazy Carl can be DH until Frank is back and be the 4th outfielder.Forget about Vizquel and spend money on SP or BP help.

Ol' No. 2

10-31-2004, 08:00 PM

I think I'm in a very small minority here, but I believe the Sox cannot tolerate the number of holes in the lineup that are currently contemplated. Look at how much the team struggled without Frank and Maggs in 2004. Maggs is gone, Frank could miss a month or more. If you've got Crede, Harris, Davis, and Borchard in the lineup, they are going to score 3 runs or less A LOT. In the Cell the other team is going to score no matter who's pitching. We need to have at least an average offensive team.That holey lineup was good enough to finish 3rd in the AL in offense. And 11th in pitching. Which do you think is in bigger need of an upgrade?

Thats a pretty good lineup, expeccially if Crede and Harris pick it up a notch. We dont need a new shortstop, spend the money on a quality starter and bullpen.

hold2dibber

11-01-2004, 01:29 PM

Pierre will fill one big hole at leadoff hitter and the whole outfield gets better with Lee RF,Pierre CF,and Rowand LF.Crazy Carl can be DH until Frank is back and be the 4th outfielder.Forget about Vizquel and spend money on SP or BP help.
If they could land Pierre, I'd think long and hard about dealing Konerko. He's in the last year of his contract and his value is probably at its highest. Carl can move to 1st (w/Gload as a defensive replacement). I've got to believe that Konerko could bring either some significant bullpen help and a decent position player. For example, move him to Baltimore for Roberts and Ryan, giving the Sox a line-up of:

They free up some money and sign Radke and the rotation is set; with the addition of Ryan, the bullpen is much improved. Not sure who you trade to get Pierre - maybe Garland and/or prospects.

jabrch

11-01-2004, 01:36 PM

The problem is that this swing and miss offense hasn't been good enough to win this division except once. And that's with Maggs.
And that includes 2003 when we had 2 top flight starters and a better pen than we do now.
We lose power- we need players to get on base so that we can score without power and/or when we do hit a homer, someone is on base to enjoy it with them.
Here is a guy who had a .374 OBP last year- now THAT is a real leadoff hitter, which would help our offense tremendously

In addition he makes 2.4 million.. 2.4 -and we would prefer to pay a 37 year old shortstop with inferior skills 4 MILLION?
Huh?
except he isn't a FA. You want to trade something of value in our system for him? As far as inferior skills, Vizquel is a very good defensive SS while Pierre is an average, at best CF (weak arm, but decent range). I'm more worried about SP than I am about OF. A top of the order of Rowand and Vizquel will score runs. I'm not happy with the thought of who our 5th statrter is as of now.

Rocky Soprano

11-01-2004, 02:16 PM

Kenny go get us Pierre! That would be an awesome pickup.

Flight #24

11-01-2004, 02:43 PM

Kenny go get us Pierre! That would be an awesome pickup.
Who do we think the Marlin's might take for him? I can almost guarantee that they have no interest in Konerko, and likely little in Lee. That leaves prospects (or ARow, to which I would say NO).

I suppose I could be convinced to part with one of Anderson or Sweeney for Pierre, but I think I'd draw the line at one of our young pitchers.

Crede+Anderson/Sweeney? & Move Uribe to 3b?

mdep524

11-01-2004, 02:57 PM

Who do we think the Marlin's might take for him? I can almost guarantee that they have no interest in Konerko, and likely little in Lee. That leaves prospects (or ARow, to which I would say NO).

I suppose I could be convinced to part with one of Anderson or Sweeney for Pierre, but I think I'd draw the line at one of our young pitchers.

Crede+Anderson/Sweeney? & Move Uribe to 3b?
I thought I read the other day that Lowell was going to work it out so he stays in Florida. Either way, Cabrera is the heir apparent at 3B for the Marlins, so I doubt there is any interest in Crede. I wouldn't be against trading Garland and/or a couple prospects to get Pierre in the fold with the '05 Sox. I would really like hold2dibber's proposed line up and pitching staff.

Rocky Soprano

11-01-2004, 03:11 PM

Who do we think the Marlin's might take for him? I can almost guarantee that they have no interest in Konerko, and likely little in Lee. That leaves prospects (or ARow, to which I would say NO).

I suppose I could be convinced to part with one of Anderson or Sweeney for Pierre, but I think I'd draw the line at one of our young pitchers.

Crede+Anderson/Sweeney? & Move Uribe to 3b?
I was thinking Anderson or Sweeney.

spataro51

11-01-2004, 04:54 PM

I know that they wouldn't want crede because lowel just signed a new contract that guarentees him something like 24 mil over the next 3 years.

Ol' No. 2

11-01-2004, 05:01 PM

I know that they wouldn't want crede because lowel just signed a new contract that guarentees him something like 24 mil over the next 3 years.I don't think they're that excited about Alex Gonzalez at SS, and with Hee Sop Choi gone, they need a 1B, too. I don't know what they've got in their minor leagues that might be ready, but if Kenny gets Vizquel, they could offer Uribe and Gload for Pierre.

spataro51

11-01-2004, 05:25 PM

or they can give lee up because if florida puts lowel at first, they can move cabrera to third (his natural pos.) then they can use lee to fill the whole from cabrera spot.

Jjav829

11-01-2004, 06:27 PM

I'd love to get Pierre for the top of the order. He'd give us the true leadoff hitter that we have been missing for a few years. Florida is in payroll trouble so they would probably want cheap, young players. That means I doubt they would want Lee unless the Sox ate part of Lee's contract.

Maracucho

11-01-2004, 06:44 PM

or they can give lee up because if florida puts lowel at first, they can move cabrera to third (his natural pos.) then they can use lee to fill the whole from cabrera spot.
How about giving them Lee+prospects for Lowell and Pierre. I know Lowell is a bit pricey, but Florida definitely wants to get rid of his contract and he's pretty good ballplayer. Plus it also allows to trade Crede for starting pitching or bullpen help, preferably the former.

Jjav829

11-01-2004, 06:58 PM

How about giving them Lee+prospects for Lowell and Pierre. I know Lowell is a bit pricey, but Florida definitely wants to get rid of his contract and he's pretty good ballplayer. Plus it also allows to trade Crede for starting pitching or bullpen help, preferably the former.The Marlins just guaranteed Lowell's contract for the next 3 years, rather than possibly giving him the option to opt out of his contract. What makes you so sure the Marlins want to get rid of him?

Tragg

11-01-2004, 08:55 PM

Konerko for Pierre.

Maracucho

11-01-2004, 10:27 PM

The Marlins just guaranteed Lowell's contract for the next 3 years, rather than possibly giving him the option to opt out of his contract. What makes you so sure the Marlins want to get rid of him?
Actually it was a player option, not a club option. Lowell had the chance to become a free agent in case the Marlins didn't secure a ballpark deal, however he declined he option, deciding to keep the current contract.

Jjav829

11-02-2004, 02:25 AM

Actually it was a player option, not a club option. Lowell had the chance to become a free agent in case the Marlins didn't secure a ballpark deal, however he declined he option, deciding to keep the current contract.
I didn't say it was a club option. What I said was that they could have taken the chance of Lowell opting out of his contract, but instead they chose to secure him for the next 3 years. He did not choose to keep his current contract. He chose to accept a new contract whereby the next 3 years of his contract are now guaranteed and no longer based on the Marlins getting a new stadium deal in place. If the Marlins want to get rid of Lowell, why would they revise his contract to guarantee the next 3 years?

Mohoney

11-02-2004, 03:31 AM

If Florida wants prospects and doesn't want to take on salary, maybe we can go through a third party to get this deal done. We find out which prospects Florida might be targeting. We trade either Lee or Konerko to a team in need of pop in the lineup, and get two upper-tier (one of which is a pitcher) or three middle-tier (two of which are pitchers) prospects back. We then package either the upper-tier position player or the middle-tier position player and one of the middle-tier pitchers with either Gload (if Lee is moved instead of Konerko) or Uribe (if we sign Vizquel) to get Pierre. Of course, Florida would have to be interested in Gload or Uribe for this to work.

We end up with Pierre, a minor league pitcher to add to our farm, and significant cash to sign a FA SP for Konerko/Lee and Gload/Uribe.

wdelaney72

11-02-2004, 09:05 AM

Lowell's contract is 3 years 25.5 million (8.5 million per year). His defensive stats were among the best in 2004 (2nd in F% and errors). He hits above .280 with decent power.

I'd take that contract in a heartbeat, and so would a lot of other teams.