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Future Expansion : Shadow Of Mordor?

and once i read it i thought the implications could be true. There is a logic behind that speculation.
But i think it's gonna be Gondor/Osgiliath (Shadow = Smoke/Fumes of Sauron, although "Sauron's Fumes" sounds kind of funny...).

It would be a fitting title indeed as the shadows of Mordor deepen the farther things go east. Right now the hosts of the Malledhrim may have fallen back to Lorien to dig in for the retributional strike from Dol Guldur, things get serious at Erebor and Dale and Frodo and Sam are wandering the (player-unfitting) region of Emyn Muir.

It would appear natural to get the player base involved in the beginning skirmishes in Gondor and Ithilien. We hear of scouts at Cair Andros and the Anduin Undeeps and then there is Osgiliath and (maybe) the refugee movements from the last attack. Then we have the Haradrim moving through Ithilien and thus making themselves susceptible for skirmishes and ambushes, both mounted and unmounted.

Lots of opportunities, I'd say.

"So Isildur's Bane has been found..."

"Yeah! It was a limited time offer in the LotRO Store during the 'Mount Doom Eruption Event'. Cost me 2995 TP but now I have a /sauron emote, too."

Yeah, the whole middleearththegame.com and all the other Middle Earth references in the domain are kind of throwing me off. Really seems more like a new game right now or some sort of tie-in to go along with the expansion?

"The Lord of the Rings Online" has already turned into "Middle-Earth Online"; the latest indication being the introduction of three instances that correlate more with the "Hobbit" setting than with "LotR". At least this is my opinion on topical story progression (or the lack thereof).

Other indications are
- the "Winter Town" thing which is practically a completely detached setting
- Wildermore, which is more like an "Evil Ice Queen" expansion from WoW in Rohirrim style
- small things that touch more generic than LotR-specific lore (which is not bad at all), like Hobbit and Dwarves' migration movement in Enedwaith, the Ent-Wives Gardens in the Brown Lands, the Blue Castes etc.

An entirely new game on Middle-Earth background would of course be intriguing as long as it is no browser game oder F2Win. Would depend on license details, I guess...

"So Isildur's Bane has been found..."

"Yeah! It was a limited time offer in the LotRO Store during the 'Mount Doom Eruption Event'. Cost me 2995 TP but now I have a /sauron emote, too."

If this is for a brand new game, that bodes ill for LOTRO. That means no Mordor expansion. That would not be exciting news to me.

If there's no Mordor expansion, then don't count on the LOTRO you know being around. It will be replaced with this new game. Whatever is left of LOTRO that you enjoyed will be wiped, and not likely ported in anyway to the new game. You can also expect to be an F2P grinder, just like they've turned LOTRO into, only it will be so from the start.

You can also expect it to have fewer features at launch. After all, it is costly to put in all that we already have into a fresh engine. That means waiting a long time for housing, if you get it at all. You probably won't have PvMP at all, or yet another WoW imitation, instanced on a tiny map, the same thing SWTOR resorted to. Remember, Turbine tacked it on last minute for SOA. I doubt they'll tack it on again, since they seem to resent doing so for LOTRO.

Basically, say your goodbyes to LOTRO now.

But let's all pray that this is for a LOTRO expansion. Then we can wipe our brows and say, "Whew!" But the fact that they registered their trademark as "Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor" instead of tacking it onto LOTRO as before is disturbing. It would be a low blow for Turbine/WB to wipe our beloved LOTRO and all the hard work we've put on our characters without any advance warning. I mean, if WoW with its pitiful graphics can still be going after all these years, why can't LOTRO continue? *Prays LOTRO keeps on going.*

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a LOTRO reboot. It sorely needs a new engine and needs to catch up to today's MMO "standards". But if a Korean MMO developer is doing it, I'm not sure it would be worth playing. I don't like MMO's that come from Korea or Japan.

That's a weird way of looking at it. SWTOR was just the MMO continuance of an existing IP, Knights of the Old Republic, not a reboot of anything in itself. SWG just plain died.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing a LOTRO reboot. It sorely needs a new engine and needs to catch up to today's MMO "standards". But if a Korean MMO developer is doing it, I'm not sure it would be worth playing. I don't like MMO's that come from Korea or Japan.

Frankly, the idea of a Korean MMO based on LOTR makes me laugh. It's just such a random thing to suggest, I just can't imagine it happening. KRPGs tend to be really grindy with a weak storyline and besides, can you imagine LOTR done in the art style they typically go for?

Frankly, the idea of a Korean MMO based on LOTR makes me laugh. It's just such a random thing to suggest, I just can't imagine it happening. KRPGs tend to be really grindy with a weak storyline and besides, [bold]can you imagine LOTR done in the art style they typically go for?[/bold]

Yes i can. The gay male elves in K-LOTRO... Oh, and the sexy elf ladies in bikinies... rofl.... And the shiny HUGE armour that could crush the one who wear it irl...

So, we are going to Helm's Deep. What is next? Everyone seems to think that we move to Gondor and Minas Tirith. The problem is that this way, we leave half of “The Two Towers”, the whole of book 4, out. It is without doubt very tricky to follow but it is doable with session plays if we are way behind Sam and Frodo.

You are the Thane of Hytbold. Your town lies on the eastern borders of Rohan, fearing the next invasion, plus two of your good friends now venture alone across the river. It seems natural to me that you can try a quick scouting trip.

That trip can take us to the Dead Marshes, the Black Gate and finally to Ithilien (kindred to the Rangers of Ithilien anyone?). There are many interesting quest hubs along the way and the epic can follow Sam and Frodo's path. We find clues about Golum being there as well. We can quest as close to Minas Morgul as possible. Finally, as the armies of Mordor start their march to Gondor, we can provide cover to the Rangers while they retreat to Osgiliath, with hit and run delay tactics (warbands?).

We can even get an instance cluster. What about twelve heroes convincing a certain wounded but angry spider, that after the first shock, instead of going after that strange little creature that wounded her, it would be wise to stay at home.

So, we are going to Helm's Deep. What is next? Everyone seems to think that we move to Gondor and Minas Tirith. The problem is that this way, we leave half of “The Two Towers”, the whole of book 4, out. It is without doubt very tricky to follow but it is doable with session plays if we are way behind Sam and Frodo.

It sounds terribly dull, in the main. Mostly all they do is walk, through some of the most awful, depressing places in Middle-earth.

That trip can take us to the Dead Marshes, the Black Gate and finally to Ithilien (kindred to the Rangers of Ithilien anyone?). There are many interesting quest hubs along the way

You can't have a quest hub without NPCs to hand out quests. Who on earth would be supposed to be hanging around in the Emyn Muil, the Dead Marshes or anywhere near the Dagorlad and the Black Gate, bearing in mind these are desolate wastelands where nobody lives? The nearest friendlies are the Rangers of Ithilien, and that's not only a long way away but they only come into the story later.

What about twelve heroes convincing a certain wounded but angry spider, that after the first shock, instead of going after that strange little creature that wounded her, it would be wise to stay at home.

Epic fail, that's what. The fight with Sam left her so messed up she wasn't going anywhere. You can't have the player-characters intervening everywhere, every single time, it just gets silly.

It sounds terribly dull, in the main. Mostly all they do is walk, through some of the most awful, depressing places in Middle-earth.

While Angmar and Mirkwood where bright cheerful places

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

You can't have a quest hub without NPCs to hand out quests. Who on earth would be supposed to be hanging around in the Emyn Muil, the Dead Marshes or anywhere near the Dagorlad and the Black Gate, bearing in mind these are desolate wastelands where nobody lives? The nearest friendlies are the Rangers of Ithilien, and that's not only a long way away but they only come into the story later.

We've already met some helpful Easterlings, we are known to accept quests from ghosts and Ithilien is before Gondor in the books.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Epic fail, that's what. The fight with Sam left her so messed up she wasn't going anywhere. You can't have the player-characters intervening everywhere, every single time, it just gets silly.

I've read epic discussions in this forum about how over our heads a boss like Shelob is. A wounded Shelob, one that we don't have to fully defeat, just convince to stay home, is more doable. And about player-characters intervening everywhere? Am I playing the wrong game all those years???

If this is for a brand new game, that bodes ill for LOTRO. That means no Mordor expansion. That would not be exciting news to me.

If there's no Mordor expansion, then don't count on the LOTRO you know being around. It will be replaced with this new game. Whatever is left of LOTRO that you enjoyed will be wiped, and not likely ported in anyway to the new game. You can also expect to be an F2P grinder, just like they've turned LOTRO into, only it will be so from the start.

You can also expect it to have fewer features at launch. After all, it is costly to put in all that we already have into a fresh engine. That means waiting a long time for housing, if you get it at all. You probably won't have PvMP at all, or yet another WoW imitation, instanced on a tiny map, the same thing SWTOR resorted to. Remember, Turbine tacked it on last minute for SOA. I doubt they'll tack it on again, since they seem to resent doing so for LOTRO.

Basically, say your goodbyes to LOTRO now.

Holy cow! Panic about nothing much?

Even if this is a new game, that doesn't mean the end of LotRO. LotRO will be around as long as it makes money for Turbine. There's the option on the IP license that needs to be extended before it expires in 2014, but that's a simple matter. Also, keep in mind that if the license ISN'T renewed then your "new game theory" goes right out the window as well.

They had to invent NPCs for both, remember? That's a bit harder to do for, say, the Dead Marshes where there's not supposed to be anyone and there's nobody even nearby. Not even any mobs to fight!

We've already met some helpful Easterlings, we are known to accept quests from ghosts and Ithilien is before Gondor in the books.

Nothing would be scraping the barrel quite like umpteen quests being handed out by ghosts. To do what, fight other ghosts?

I've read epic discussions in this forum about how over our heads a boss like Shelob is. A wounded Shelob, one that we don't have to fully defeat, just convince to stay home, is more doable. And about player-characters intervening everywhere? Am I playing the wrong game all those years???

She's already defeated, that's the point. The narrative's quite clear on that, she wasn't going anywhere; she was maimed, half-dead and near-blind. It's hard to see how she could have been any more defeated without being dead.

They had to invent NPCs for both, remember? That's a bit harder to do for, say, the Dead Marshes where there's not supposed to be anyone and there's nobody even nearby. Not even any mobs to fight!

Nothing would be scraping the barrel quite like umpteen quests being handed out by ghosts. To do what, fight other ghosts?

And gather flowers while avoiding to be seen from the Black Gate. I'm revising my last question. Are you playing some other game all those years?

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

She's already defeated, that's the point. The narrative's quite clear on that, she wasn't going anywhere; she was maimed, half-dead and near-blind. It's hard to see how she could have been any more defeated without being dead.

About fighting Shelob in a raid, is more ore less another, independent topic. Yes she is defeated. How is she defeated?

For the first time in her life she felt a blade in her flesh. She is shocked. Yet, she is mad as hell and ready to attack again, “this time to slay and then to rend”.

Sam remembers the Phial of Galadriel and uses it (maybe with the help of Galadriel herself) to finally scare her away.

Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her malice and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from within, rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun once more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow, this tale does not tell.

Galadriel: I need your help <Player_Name>. Our friends are in grave danger. They managed to surprise and scare their foe away but as we speak, she gathers her children to strike back at them in full vengeance. Gather your friends and distract her long enough for Frodo and Sam to have a chance escaping her minions.

PS. Writing isn't my strong point and English is not my native language but you can see where I'm going with that

And gather flowers while avoiding to be seen from the Black Gate. I'm revising my last question. Are you playing some other game all those years?

Anyone would think you actually want to be given content that bad

About fighting Shelob in a raid, is more ore less another, independent topic. Yes she is defeated. How is she defeated?

For the first time in her life she felt a blade in her flesh. She is shocked. Yet, she is mad as hell and ready to attack again, “this time to slay and then to rend”.

Sam remembers the Phial of Galadriel and uses it (maybe with the help of Galadriel herself) to finally scare her away.

Oh, right. Quote selectively and then downplay the outcome.

'No such terror out of heaven had ever burned in Shelob's face before. The terror of it entered into her wounded head and scored it with incredible pain, and the dreadful infection of light spread from eye to eye. She fell back beating the air with her forelegs, her sight blasted by inner lightnings, her mind in agony. Then turning her maimed head away, she rolled aside and began to crawl, claw by claw, towards the opening in the dark cliff behind.

Sam came on. He was reeling like a drunken man, but he came on. And Shelob cowed at last, leaving a trail of green-yellow slime, she slipped in, even as Sam hewed a last stroke at her dragging legs.'

So come off it, she's severely messed up. Tolkien allows the possibility that at some point 'slow years of darkness' thence she might have managed to heal enough to go back to her old ways but the key word there is years, it's not as it it's at all implied to be a case of five minutes and then she's all better.

Actually it depends. Our whole conversation, is based on my speculation that we will go to Ithilien way before Minas Tirith and that the “Shadow of Mordor” name registration may be pointing to that direction. You asked how it will be done and I gave you an answer based on what I have seen in LOTRO all those years. The rough draft I gave you, is based on my (rather poor) creative writing. What you may get from a professional developer, even based on the same draft is another story.

What I would love to get if my speculation is true? A new improved version of SoA days Angmar. I really miss that place and the feeling of danger it used to give you.

What I believe we will probably get if I'm right. Another RoI. I will be content if we get a great epic line, a decent questline to lead us from hub to hub and a mostly bug free release. Quest fillers like get me 10 flowers doesn't bother me any more. I more or less expect them by now.

I would also probably like some nice lore instances, like the one we got with the ghost in the great river. The Dead Marshes is probably a place filled with great stories to tell. Finally my secret hope is that the hit and run attacks on the armies of Minas Morgul I suggested in my first post, will be proper, instanced, challenging MC raids. I know it is a lot to ask with the state of MC now, but one can hope.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

Oh, right. Quote selectively and then downplay the outcome.

I plead guilty your honor

Assuming my first hypothesis is right AND assuming that there are still raids (and raiders) in game, Turbine will be insane leaving an iconic monster like Shelob out. She is the ideal raid boss. They would still have to bend the rules and the quote I gave you is what they can use. That is a lot less rule bending than, I don't know, the whole Mirkwood expansion maybe?

I'm not trying to tell you what the professor meant. You have my full agreement on that. I'm just pointing out one relatively easy to accept scenario, where we meet Shelob in a raid. There would be some nice heated discussions in here but most people will gladly accept it. If it is a good raid as well, it is even better.