I FIREd at 47 from a career that had been rewarding both financially and otherwise but which prevented me from pursuing other activities.

My "number" was an amount sufficient to generate income at least equal to 120% of our annual expenses + a debt free home + an emergency fund with the proviso that most of our savings had to be in assets that had a reasonable expectation of generating rising levels of income over time (i.e. mostly equities and real estate). In other words, there had to be at least some chance of keeping up with inflation. I'm sure this was overkill, but I'd rather front end load a few extra years in a high-paying career than risk looking for a job in my seventies.

In effect I was planning for our savings to last indefinitely rather than draw down principal over time because my wife is several years younger than me, keeps herself in excellent health and has long lived parents/grandparents – I assumed she could be around for another 50+ years which might as well be forever as far as financial planning is concerned. The long term impact of inflation worries me more than market volatility.

Also relevant to my decision: we have no pension, there is no equivalent of SS out here, what the banks call "annuities" are a sick joke, there is no tax on dividends or capital gains and there are no inflation linked bonds of any substance.

Five years in, everything is going well (admittedly under fairly benign conditions) both financially and otherwise.

57yrs old with a plan to retire at 60. $1.6MM is my 401K need, have healthy pension plan to take at 64 ($48K) and SS at 70. At $1.4MM now in 401K and would walk away at $1.8MM if reached before my turning 60yrs old.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

My wife and I projected what our expected pensions were going to be and adjusted our pre-retirement expenses to what our pensions would be. We live on that very happily and don't touch our investments. Someday we might, but we don't see it in the medium term future. We both retired immediately upon being eligible for our pensions.

Our pensions would cost us about $3 million to purchase as an immediate annuity, so I suppose you can say our number was $3 million. Regardless of what our other assets totaled since we don't actually live on our investments.

Retirement is great. I'm very happy with it. If you are thinking about it, just do what YOU want and don't let the naysayers talk you into wasting your life at work just to keep your brain intact. As if that's the only way to stay mentally alert.

Last edited by GCD on Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

2.8M start of new year
61/66 y/o
105K in pensions and SS
Corp. retiree health insurance @ $224 / month for spouse
No Debt
LCOL area
No kids

May be a little off track, but did you ever regret not having kids? We are at 29 and 28 ourselves and we both hate kids (other people's and the thought of our own). We agreed not to have any kids but everyone is telling us that we will feel differently when we get older. Did you?

No, even when I was a young guy (your age) I just never felt it, the desire to have children. I will say that I like kid's, I have 9 nieces and nephews and I have a wonderful relationship with all of them. I love them dearly, and am active in playing Uncle. For me, that's the sweet spot.

Thanks. Neither myself nor my wife have any siblings. Neither of us likes our extended family (cousins) so establishing a relationship with their children is out of the questions too. I can say with relative confidence now that I won't need emotional support when I'm older, but part of me is wondering if that will hold true. My dad is currently selling his house on his way to his retirement. I am handling his closing as his lawyer (free of charge of course). And every time some tiny issue pops up with the closing, he freaks out like a child, and I have to assure a 60 year old man that everything is going to be fine. I can't help but think what if I become like my dad at that age, and have no children to lean on for support?

Sorry for the detour. My number to walk away right now at 29 is 10mm. I want to travel the world, but otherwise live frugally.

I "walked away" 15 years ago at age 58. I had a good, inflation adjusted Navy pension, my (and my spouse's) health care covered for Virtually no cost and the expectation of SS for both of us down the road. My goal was $1M above that and a paid-off house. I got too frustrated with work to continue to that goal, so left with about $920K. A move to a retirement home allowed us to get rid of the mortgage. Both the pension and the portfolio have grown since then, we're completely debt-free, have travelled a lot and we haven't wanted for anything that's really important. If I knew then what I know now, I would have retired a couple of years earlier.

The income streams are probably worth $2.5M -$3M (depending on the imputed withdrawal rates) but of course can't be left to heirs in a will.

Right now, $2-$2.5 million would be enough for me to easily walk away and never look back.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

...

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

All good points. The risk of physical and mental degeneration following disengagement is very real. One of the keys to successfully FIREing is going into it with the mindset that I am not retiring but transiting into something else. Quiet frankly, the thought of not being busy terrifies me. Five years in, I've completed a post-grad degree and am working on a second. I've written (self-published) a novel and am working on another one. I continue to do volunteer work and a little bit of part-time consulting. A few close friends who FIREd at around the same time as me have all kept themselves busy (although in very different ways). Our standing joke is that we have no idea how we ever had time for a job.

All good points. The risk of physical and mental degeneration following disengagement is very real. One of the keys to successfully FIREing is going into it with the mindset that I am not retiring but transiting into something else. Quiet frankly, the thought of not being busy terrifies me. Five years in, I've completed a post-grad degree and am working on a second. I've written (self-published) a novel and am working on another one. I continue to do volunteer work and a little bit of part-time consulting. A few close friends who FIREd at around the same time as me have all kept themselves busy (although in very different ways). Our standing joke is that we have no idea how we ever had time for a job.

Cool, but if that's what FIREing means, then I might as well keep my career going assuming I find my job fulfilling and fun-enough. I don't think I'll start writing like Joseph Conrad in advanced middle age, don't see much point in going to school yet again so late in the game, etc. Might as well keep advancing in my field, building on skills that I honed for many years in that area, rather than dabbling suddenly in a bunch of completely new stuff. I realize that this is not universal (others have other circumstances, talents, and personalities), but that's my personal perspective.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

Scooter's post should be in the Wiki. I'll post a slightly different view:

I'm an immigrant and have been in the US for 30 years now. Like all immigrants, I've deep seated insecurities around money since most immigrants believe that they are one step away from the poorhouse => work is everything.

When I exited my last startup, I was 54 and while I had done things that I wanted to do, I'd never done things that I loved - in fact I didn't even know what I loved. A year hence, I'm still learning. Like Scooter, I feel fortunate for what I have, but it is still hard for me not to "go to the office" - even though I'm working as hard as ever and as productive in terms of turning out code. The first few months when I was trying to figure out the course forward were hard and the temptation to go back to the familiar confines of the techs that I'd worked in WA was significant.

So, I don't just think that a number will make you happy, it is the number that lets you sleep at night, and the path forward that does. Sometimes it takes a bit before you can figure out the path that keeps you engaged and feeling that you are making a difference while keeping the demons of insecurity at bay.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

It is an interesting post for sure. I've bolded the points I'm going to touch on as they seem to be at odds with one another. And yet, in a way, I agree with both sides.

I retired young. Late 30s. Like those you know, I've spend the last decade traveling and have been to almost 90 countries to date. You seem to judge this sort of lifestyle negatively. For me, it has been a positive. It keeps me humble and allows me to experience people and cultures in a way I could never do while working. From the first line of your post - I was supposed to deteriorate. I have not. I am more fulfilled than when I was working. Of course, I am not of the age where deterioration would normally begin. But as you also mention, I am just coming into the age where some will pass away. This was my impetus to retire young and do the things I've wanted to do. I've become a rescue diver and have >400 dives. I've mentioned the traveling. I was able to care for my parents before they passed and spend time with them during their last years. All of this was possible because I "walked away".

With the above said you might think I disagree with you - and yet, I do not. It was a huge transition retiring young. Much of my "self value" initially came from work. I had to look within and do soul work to truly understand who I am and what was important to me. I also had to learn how to explain (or not explain) to friends and family what I was doing with my life. Judgments abound. I am a better person today due to this self-work and do not regret in the least early retirement. But I absolutely can see it ruining some. If you don't have a plan or your plan is to do nothing, you will deteriorate in many ways. For example, at my age - I'm a very rare breed. Since others are not in a similar situation, being retired can lead to social isolation and requires a lot of effort to ensure it does not. Luckily I have a wonderful group of close friends and they are quite supportive.

The advice you give is true to an extent - but for me is pointed in the wrong direction. You correctly explain that some of us will pass young. For me - this is an impetus to stop working if you are financially able (unless it is your passion). And then spend time doing your passion. Life is short and none of us know how much time we have left. It's not solely about passing early. Health problems increase as well - and none of us know how healthy we will be as we age. For me, I was healthy the past decade and it allowed me to travel as I would not have been able to do in my 70s. It is and was priceless. And I wouldn't trade it for work under any scenario.

To me (and please understand this is because work was not my passion) work is a social construct that is not natural. Striving however is natural and in fact I'd say if a human is striving he "dies". I think many misinterpret work and striving. Striving is a requirement or deterioration sets in. But while work is striving, striving can take many forms other than work. It is this key point that anyone seeking retirement at any age must understand and generate a plan for. If they heed this advice, retirement does not culminate in the outcomes you describe.

For what I would expect to provide a basic, but reasonably comfortable, retirement: $2.5 million total portfolio, with at least $1.75 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

For what I would expect to provide a very nice, money is of little concern, retirement: $3.0 million total portfolio, with at least $2.10 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

For what I would consider to provide an extremely luxurious retirement: $4 million total portfolio, with at least $2.75 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

All of the above are based calculations on the following:

1) Previous historical 5 year annual average spending amount for 2 people is $50,845.51; so the portfolio must throw off at least that amount each year using the withdrawal rates noted below;

2) Residence would be completely paid off (which is not included in the total portfolio numbers, nor are any cash holdings that we have) and we have no debt;

3) Anything above a 3% withdrawal rate from the taxable account is not acceptable;

4) Anything above a 2.25% withdrawal rate from the entire portfolio is not acceptable; and

5) The IRAs cannot be touched for at least 20 years from today.

I'm nearing 40, wife is a few years younger, and we are closing in on hitting the first target. Whether I've got the desire to stick around to make it to the other targets is doubtful, and whether I would even know what to do with the money that would be thrown off of the third target is extremely doubtful---which makes me seriously question the value in working long enough to even reach that target.

Quoting myself here because, although we've hit the first and second targets, I'm still not sure that I can walk away.

Which makes me think that it is much easier to come up with some number (which would, presumably, be a number that is greater than what one currently has) and think that "If only I had that much, I could walk away and be happy, content, and fine", than it is to actually hit that number and walk away, be happy, content, and fine. Thus, thinking that one will do something when X occurs is a lot easier---and much less risky---than actually doing said something when X occurs.

Which also makes me wonder just how honest people are being when they post their walk-away number. I don't doubt that they currently believe that such a number is their walk-away number, but I do have some doubts if they will actually walk away when they hit that number.

Or, perhaps, I'm just a big scaredy cat who simply can't walk away due to fear of the unknown, or because maybe deep down I just love money, or because perhaps I have fine some perverse enjoyment out of being miserable, or for some other reason altogether, despite the math indicating that everything will be okay if I were to walk away today.

I plan to retire in 18 years unless the Congress changes the rules on me, I’m a Federal employee and that’s when I’ll be eligible. I’ve saved enough that I’m on track to leave earlier but I’d rather stay for retiree health coverage.

For what I would expect to provide a basic, but reasonably comfortable, retirement: $2.5 million total portfolio, with at least $1.75 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

For what I would expect to provide a very nice, money is of little concern, retirement: $3.0 million total portfolio, with at least $2.10 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

For what I would consider to provide an extremely luxurious retirement: $4 million total portfolio, with at least $2.75 million of that in a taxable account and the remainder in IRAs.

All of the above are based calculations on the following:

1) Previous historical 5 year annual average spending amount for 2 people is $50,845.51; so the portfolio must throw off at least that amount each year using the withdrawal rates noted below;

2) Residence would be completely paid off (which is not included in the total portfolio numbers, nor are any cash holdings that we have) and we have no debt;

3) Anything above a 3% withdrawal rate from the taxable account is not acceptable;

4) Anything above a 2.25% withdrawal rate from the entire portfolio is not acceptable; and

5) The IRAs cannot be touched for at least 20 years from today.

I'm nearing 40, wife is a few years younger, and we are closing in on hitting the first target. Whether I've got the desire to stick around to make it to the other targets is doubtful, and whether I would even know what to do with the money that would be thrown off of the third target is extremely doubtful---which makes me seriously question the value in working long enough to even reach that target.

Quoting myself here because, although we've hit the first and second targets, I'm still not sure that I can walk away.

Which makes me think that it is much easier to come up with some number (which would, presumably, be a number that is greater than what one currently has) and think that "If only I had that much, I could walk away and be happy, content, and fine", than it is to actually hit that number and walk away, be happy, content, and fine. Thus, thinking that one will do something when X occurs is a lot easier---and much less risky---than actually doing said something when X occurs.

Which also makes me wonder just how honest people are being when they post their walk-away number. I don't doubt that they currently believe that such a number is their walk-away number, but I do have some doubts if they will actually walk away when they hit that number.

Or, perhaps, I'm just a big scaredy cat who simply can't walk away due to fear of the unknown, or because maybe deep down I just love money, or because perhaps I have fine some perverse enjoyment out of being miserable, or for some other reason altogether, despite the math indicating that everything will be okay if I were to walk away today.

I'm nowhere near my number but I too consider the reality of actually hitting that number and I think I may be too fearful of the unknown to actually walk away. I'm generally risk-averse and financially conservative to begin with, and in recent years I've seen enough working folks get thrown a financial curveball in their 50's-60's, and I think their ability to continue earning income instead of relying on market returns likely alleviated some stress.

I think the number for me scales down as I get older. Right now at 27, I’d want to have 10 mil. Is that what I need to be FI? Haha no, I think that would be more like 2 mil. But if I hit 10 million I’d definitely slap the eject button right now.

From observing my elders I figured out that when you "walk away" from engaging in the work that gave your life meaning you are almost certain to deteriorate. Everyone I watched in the generation above me who retired had grandiose plans. They were going to write books. They were going to do executive work in volunteer organizations. They were going to take college courses, etc. etc. They didn't. Most just did a lot of luxury travel where they spent their time with other retirees impressing each other with what they used to do back when they were doing things. You could see the brain deficits grow from year to year. Eventually they ended up in assisted living or worse. The few people I saw who did not deteriorate were those who kept doing what they had always done professionally, cutting back on their hours, but still keeping at it. Taylor Latimore here is a very good example. Observing those elders has had a huge impact on how I have lived my own life.

I hit way past my number eight years ago due to the unexpected huge success of a family business and an unexpected inheritance, but I'm still living just the way I lived back when I had what most of you here would probably consider a pathetically low annual income. Indeed, there are times when having more choices because of the extra money seems to impose a burden. We'll see a cute little house in town that we would have been thrilled to live in when we were "poor" but think, no, gotta wait for that primo, beautifully built high quality home we always dreamed of (which doesn't exist in our beautifully unspoiled rural region.)

We still work at the things we used to work at because that keeps our brains going. People keep commenting on how young I seem, though I am far from young and have my share of age-related health issues. Mostly I interact with people far younger than I am because they are who are active in my field. When I meet with people my age who I used to work with, it seems like all they can talk about is their grandchildren and their river cruises, or their health. These used to be brilliant interesting people but they aren't any longer.

My advice to any young person is this: find work you love in your 30s or 40s even if it means giving up that comfy salary. I never minded being poor in my middle years because I was able to find ways to raise my children so they grew up into productive happy adults (unlike so many of their friends who grew up with far more resources and still live off their parents in their mid-30s!) I was doing work that kept me excited and when as happened occasionally it stopped keeping me excited, I found something new to do that reinspired me.

Studies have shown that past a certain fairly modest income level money does not lead to happiness. In terms of your children, too much money often leads to narcissistic personality development and stunted growth. Learning to be satisfied with what is going on in your heart and mind will give you the happiness you will never get from money.

In what other people consider to be old age, I am glad that I don't have to worry about the things money can fix, but if the money disappeared, my life wouldn't be all that different. I would have draw on my connections with other people more to get by, which might actually be healthier mentally--moving in with friends in a group situation, for example, to share expenses instead of living isolated with my mate in the family home out in the country. Several of the very happiest people I stay in touch with now live at income levels that most of you here would find terrifying. They take full advantage of the beauties of nature that surround us and interact with many friends and loving family allowing them to live full rich lives in their 70s.

Beyond that, now that I'm in my 70s I am also seeing surprising numbers of younger acquaintances who seemed completely healthy dying of unexpected fatal health conditions before they even get to retire. Several were worried in their 50s about how they would fund their retirements as they had spent years doing the things they really wanted to do and had not amassed a lot of savings. It turned out not to be an issue for them sadly, but at least those who loved them can take comfort that they did the things they wanted to do while they were here. You can't count on having all that time to do the things you put off "someday." Yet another reason to do the things that matter to you now.

Bottom line: Saving for retirement is important, but putting off doing the things that matter to you until retirement can ruin your life. There is no amount of money in the bank that will give you a satisfying old age if you aren't already satisfied being who you are and doing what you do.

It is an interesting post for sure. I've bolded the points I'm going to touch on as they seem to be at odds with one another. And yet, in a way, I agree with both sides.

I retired young. Late 30s. Like those you know, I've spend the last decade traveling and have been to almost 90 countries to date. You seem to judge this sort of lifestyle negatively. For me, it has been a positive. It keeps me humble and allows me to experience people and cultures in a way I could never do while working. From the first line of your post - I was supposed to deteriorate. I have not. I am more fulfilled than when I was working. Of course, I am not of the age where deterioration would normally begin. But as you also mention, I am just coming into the age where some will pass away. This was my impetus to retire young and do the things I've wanted to do. I've become a rescue diver and have >400 dives. I've mentioned the traveling. I was able to care for my parents before they passed and spend time with them during their last years. All of this was possible because I "walked away".

With the above said you might think I disagree with you - and yet, I do not. It was a huge transition retiring young. Much of my "self value" initially came from work. I had to look within and do soul work to truly understand who I am and what was important to me. I also had to learn how to explain (or not explain) to friends and family what I was doing with my life. Judgments abound. I am a better person today due to this self-work and do not regret in the least early retirement. But I absolutely can see it ruining some. If you don't have a plan or your plan is to do nothing, you will deteriorate in many ways. For example, at my age - I'm a very rare breed. Since others are not in a similar situation, being retired can lead to social isolation and requires a lot of effort to ensure it does not. Luckily I have a wonderful group of close friends and they are quite supportive.

The advice you give is true to an extent - but for me is pointed in the wrong direction. You correctly explain that some of us will pass young. For me - this is an impetus to stop working if you are financially able (unless it is your passion). And then spend time doing your passion. Life is short and none of us know how much time we have left. It's not solely about passing early. Health problems increase as well - and none of us know how healthy we will be as we age. For me, I was healthy the past decade and it allowed me to travel as I would not have been able to do in my 70s. It is and was priceless. And I wouldn't trade it for work under any scenario.

To me (and please understand this is because work was not my passion) work is a social construct that is not natural. Striving however is natural and in fact I'd say if a human is striving he "dies". I think many misinterpret work and striving. Striving is a requirement or deterioration sets in. But while work is striving, striving can take many forms other than work. It is this key point that anyone seeking retirement at any age must understand and generate a plan for. If they heed this advice, retirement does not culminate in the outcomes you describe.

I agree. A key variable here, I think, that is easily overlooked is the extent to which you draw your identity from your career. I personally do not do this nearly as much as others. For me, my career is a means to an end. I enjoy it, but I wouldn't do it apart from the money I get paid for it. But for many others, they derive a lot of meaning and identity from their career, and abandoning that wholesale could lead to rapid degradation.

“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings

After reading the last few posts here, I deleted my retirement plan from my computer and started working on a new resume.

Flyingaway is the man!!

Yep! If I had followed that path, I would have spent the past 17 years at the "office." Ugh!

I assume that flyingaway was being ironic . Some of the numbers being thrown out here - $30M + are just crazy to me.

I didn't read flyingaway's post as being ironic, but I thought it was more in response to the comments about people deteriorating in retirement (not the ones talking about needing $XXXXXXXXXXXXX to retire).

My number turned out to be about $600,000 at age 55, but I live in a LCOL area, I'm pretty frugal, and I have a non-inflation-adjusted pension of about $26,000 a year. I have enough SS earnings to be just under the second bend point, which will help later, and I'm doing Roth conversions between now and then.

I retired early because of an unusual benefits situation that gave me access to retiree medical insurance if I retired at 55 or 60 and up, but not in between. When I found out about that, I ran some numbers and was surprised to discover that I was in pretty good shape to retire at 55 (summer 2017). I'm thankful every day that I was saved from the "one more year" syndrome because there was no such thing for me.

As delighted as I (still) am to be retired and free of the rat race, the last few weeks I've just begun to feel the desire to do more, and I actually agreed to teach a class in the spring. Even though the pay will be a lot lower, it's good pay for the level of effort I'll be putting in, and, if it cramps my style, I can say no next time.

This thread seems to have two themes: do you have a number, and are you prepared to retire if you get there? I didn't have a number in mind--I planned to retire based on age, or bail out earlier if I couldn't stand it. But I was so stressed out at work that, with bailing out no longer an option, I decided to take my chances.
Between the spring class I'm teaching and several musical groups, I'll actually be fairly busy early next year. The best thing about early retirement is that I have lots of time for my musical activities, which I hope to pursue as long as possible before future physical ailments make that more difficult. For now, I feel at the top of my game musically, and I feel fortunate to have time to play and sing.

I didn't had one in mind, I just thought I didn't have enough, so I keep working.
I work on my own business until it was no longer interesting and even little painful.
When I retired early couple of years ago I discovered we had way more than 25x our expense.

Picking a number to "walk away" is an interesting concept. I think a lot has to do with your ability to achieve that number. If you make a lot of money (>$500k/year) and your work is enjoyable and not too stressful to make a high income, you make pick a number that has less to do with need and more to do with want (or not even be able to pick a number). If you earn <$100k and your ability to save large amounts of money (ie "essential" needs consume most of your salary), you may be focused on a specific number because getting to your number seems so far away.

I had a conversation recently with my business partner that is 17 years my senior. His net worth close to $15 million. A lot of his wealth is tied up in whole life insurance (we don't discuss that!). He still earns a very very high 6-figure salary per year, but he lives way below his means. I asked him why he continues to work. His answer, legacy. He grew up poor and wants to leave his 2 adult children and grandchildren with as much as possible. I am sure that, if he hit a huge lottery, he would decide that there is "enough" legacy.

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" |
"The best years you have left are the ones you have right now"

Hoping to retire in about 12 years when I am 36 years old. With projected savings and capital gains I hope to have around 2-2.5 million. I feel that if I have my house paid off and can live without splurging I will have enough to enjoy the rest of my life living like I do now or a little better. If a kiddo comes in along the way it might adjust the time frame.

My number has been a moving target. Financial Independence sunk in around $1.2mil, assuming we moved to a lower cost of living area. Comfort hit at $1.6mil and will end up walking away from the job with somewhere between $1.8mil and $1.9mil.

I plan on taking some time away, but I love the game of business and making money. I imagine I'll do some consulting work for clients in exchange for investing in their deals.

I am 53. my NW is over $30mm (stocks, bonds, cash and realeastate and no debt) not countining my 401k and an inherited ira which are a few million more. Thats enuf for me. My portfolio is conservative but still produceses about $700k per year in dividends and interest which is enuf for me. plus my plan is to spend what the govt will seize in estate taxes. i finally decided to check out this year. life is short. enjoy it it if you can i say.

This is a great question. My answer is $100mm. I would have to think hard at $70mm, but I'm done at $100mm actual cash in the bank. Im 51 and have 30 or so mm. Its nice but you need $100mm for true wealth. Maybe at 70mm I woulld change my mind.

I am 53. my NW is over $30mm (stocks, bonds, cash and realeastate and no debt) not countining my 401k and an inherited ira which are a few million more. Thats enuf for me. My portfolio is conservative but still produceses about $700k per year in dividends and interest which is enuf for me. plus my plan is to spend what the govt will seize in estate taxes. i finally decided to check out this year. life is short. enjoy it it if you can i say.

None of my business, of course, but this seems like a really healthy development to me! I wish all the best to you, RAChip. Life is, indeed, short.

Retired at 50 wife 46. 2.3 Million and 300K paid for house so 2.6. Was up over 3M with market run-up at one point. Had 4 kids at home now 2 as two off to college. One on a full ride for sports the other was 50% but now that is changing as there transferring final 2 years to a higher level program and school mid year so probably going to cost us 90k but were willing to do it since the 2 younger ones are now fully funded from roll downs on 529s. Presently if you round up and take 100k off were at 2.65M. Which we have put about 80k into our downsized house were remodeling and have maybe another 2Ok to go and one other caveat is My wife 2 years ago picked-up a job that she really enjoys and great benefits so that saves us and she puts 1k a month into 401k , maxes out HSA and leaves us 1500 extra. So we live on a withdrawal of 85k a year plus her income which having done this going on 4 years I now will come down drastically as some things change. Also , Because of this I am busy as all hell so have not had an issue with my mind deteriorating other than from aging. I exercise 90 minutes to 2 hours at least 5 days a week, make dinner , do remodeling and am very active in all 4 of my kids lives.