Hoshin The terms Aiki jutsu and Jujutu when you refer to a traditional Japanese style, usually mean a " Ryu-Ha" i.e a system, and encompasse weapons training. The style that I did was Kazi arashi Ryu and they did throwing and locking, striking, sword and blade work, stick work, and strategy, and you could get the equivalent of a black belt in each discipline.As with Aikido the throws and strikes were very similar to the sword and stick work, same body movements same targets, so that when you did one it was easy to change to another. some people think that Aikijuts means jujitsu mixed with Aikido or Aikido done dirty, it doesn't.Ueshibas Akido is one of many Aiki styles

When you think of it, any so called defensive 'skill set' or tactics require dealing with and projecting violence of our own ...that is the basic common denominator to all defensive moves.

So _ If there is a 'complete art' at all, it is not just about practicing various skill sets, it is about ingraining the perfection of ruthless violence when violence is the only answer to a situation.

Give it a thought and ask yourself if you are capable of such a study.

Yes, I've seen Rick and Laird's stuff online and have gained much from it. Very disappointed as some of Laird's videos have been removed from you tube. My other thoughts are that many of us need to expand our training and look for ways to train the more practical aspects of uechi. I have worked on and off with my sons as willing "meat puppets" over the years to ingrain personal bunkai to the kata practice, especially seisan. As time went on my most willing son grew to be a 6'4 270 lb weightlifting fanatic and I learned as he grew what would work or not, much like the Greek myth of Milos who lifted a baby bull daily as the bull grew. I know there are few dojos that train balls to the wall, but occasionally getting a little off the reservation is a good thing. My sensei, Joe Graziano, allows the senior to explore their own bunkai at times and it has made the past 4 years of my 23 year study some of the most rewarding. Always great to have seniors that allow students to explore what they can do with karate as opposed to how they can make it look.

My reasons for the interest in Abernethy's comments were that it sometimes appears there is too much emphasis in karate of all systems in how it looks as opposed to functional, practical self defense.

RFWell that's a perfect segue to talk about kung fu. I went to China five times, for business, from the early '90s to about 1996. In between I sought out famous masters and their schools, not to be a wise guy but to learn…I was thoroughly disappointed each time. Obviously the stuff must have worked at some time in history [probably not since the boxer rebellion] but I don't know what it is, they just don't make effective fighters, everyone knows this but its not spoken of, and even in San Shou, look at them fight, they use western wrestling and boxing techniques (a apt example is Cung Le), where's the kung fu?

KeatingRight, I agree, and this goes back to something Sir Richard Burton said.

RFThe explorer? The guy who searched for the source of the Nile?

KeatingYes, that Sir Richard Burton. He said this stuff about methods, systems and styles is nonsense, because any human being with two legs and two arms all move on the same matrix.

There are a set of universal motions that govern man under times of stress and violence, and you may think you will move a certain way but very rapidly you learn you don't.

The rest may be developmental, it may be healthy, it may be beneficial and entertaining, but when it comes to life and death combat; all human beings whether they are seven foot tall Africans or a tiny guy from Canada, it doesn't matter, everybody moves the same.

RFAnd responds the same with adrenal rush…

KeatingExactly and this is what Burton was trying to say, that you must access those core movements and core mechanics and motions, because that is what is going to guide you.

Quote"Well that's a perfect segue to talk about kung fu. I went to China five times, for business, from the early '90s to about 1996. In between I sought out famous masters and their schools, not to be a wise guy but to learn…I was thoroughly disappointed each time. Obviously the stuff must have worked at some time in history [probably not since the boxer rebellion] but I don't know what it is, they just don't make effective fighters, everyone knows this but its not spoken of, and even in San Shou, look at them fight, they use western wrestling and boxing techniques (a apt example is Cung Le), where's the kung fu?"that's nonsence, I haven't even been to China and I have found real good kung fu fighters.......and what about Kanei Uechi? he learnt his art in China. Maybe this guy didn't look around enough

Tyson was referring to how his fighting style could overwhelm the best trained boxer in the ring because his opponents weren't prepared for the reality-check he possessed in his thunderous fists.

The same goes for self defense...

"Everyone has a plan... until they get attacked."

In other words, your training may be giving you a feeling of confidence because you've been able to hit your training partner... disarmed that plastic handgun... and escape that headlock on the ground.

But without the proper "programming", all of these techniques will still fail you in the horrific brutality of a real attack.

There's actually a scientific reason for this...

You see, when you're attacked, your brain automatically switches from your Frontal Lobe (the place where reasoning happens) to your mid-brain (where your fight, flight, submit and posture mechanisms reside - some people call this the "reptile" or animal brain).

The problem with self defense is that you PRACTICE when you're in your "frontal lobe" or a "state of reasoning."

In other words, you have the ability to "think" of possible defenses for specific situations and then imagine what you will be able to do when you're attacked.

But those complicated defenses crumble apart when you're forced into your reptile brain.

Many people who do some type of Asian weapons work do not comprehend how superior western fencers really are and don't realize that if they were to face off with a fencer using a real weapon, they would be run through helplessly.

KeatingI think if a person were to learn one thing, it should be fencing, not these other arts, and not that I'm against them but I'm just saying to get it all complete in one package, that is well explained, well understood and scientific…and again this goes to difference between a fighting art and a fighting science. I prefer a fighting science. Western arts have rarely pushed too much religion or superstition, but what they have done is applied geometry, mathematics and science to these combative equations to produce a high degree of replication, and success in combat.

Just a point Van why do you think that the UK uses Gurkha troops? why do you think we had sikhs fighting for us?.these are Asian Warriors using Asian arts. I love the western styles boxing,wrestling ( I wanted to be a wrestler ) and fencing.but it's nonsense to say the East hasn't got stuff to offer.yeah you can find idiots doing mindless Kata that they make their own moves up for.but that is not the fault of the arts, it's just that they have been taught very badly..........................Why do you think the US is having such problems with Afghanistan.nobody has ever defeated them..Asian warriors.its wrong to generalise

Our David Moy trained personally with Mr. Keating and he had nothing but good things to say about him.

Then there are others who respect him immensely:

James Keating

Introduction by Jerry Van Cook

How do you introduce someone like James A. Keating? Anyone interested in self-defense who doesn't already know who he is has to have been living in a cave. That said, there may be a few of you who have slipped through the cracks so I'll do my best to fill you in.

As far as I'm concerned, Keating is in a class of his own when it comes to the study, application, and teaching of realistic self-defense. For well over 30 years now he has made it his life, and literally thousands of students have been the beneficiaries of this pursuit. Whether they came to him in order to study firearms, sticks, knives, unarmed combat-or more importantly the integration of all forms of defense-they went away with both new skills and a new outlook on protecting themselves and their loved ones.

As I have said before, on my forum, I don't want any of the well known people I bring up offended directly, so I have deleted your post.