077 How to Embrace Effortless Flow in Life and Business with Jackie Knechtel – Transcript

Michaela: Welcome back to the show. I'm here with Jackie Knechtel, and we're gonna talk about how she embraces effortless flow in her life, and business. And she'll show you how to do that. She built a business without following that normal formula that they tell you in business books, and made it successful. And she also knows how to fit in when you might stand out. And how she turned down a 10 million dollar funding deal to get something bad because her intuition told her to do so. We’ll also look at how she found a business partner. Is quiet a story there that's very spontaneous, and her intuition just guided in that. And we’ll also look at how she lives effortlessly, and how you can too. So welcome Jackie.

Jackie: Thanks so much for having me.

Michaela: You’re so welcome. And if you don't know Jackie, she is a master of living in the flow. I bumped into her in Lisbon, and we connected there at a conference. Didn't know her before, and here we are talking on the show. She is a master manifester, super connector, and she also confided to me that she's a recovered perfectionist, and recovered people pleaser. So maybe I we’ll sneak in a little talk about what that means later. But let's talk about how you've been… You've built your business with a business partner. And we'll talk about how you met that business partner in a moment. But you haven't followed the traditional route for building this business. So how have you built your business into a successful business?

Jackie: Yeah, well it's been super [inaudible] [01:44] props that's how we've built our business. And just from the start it came together, and we knew that we had to work together. And so we decided… After we met, we mapped out a vision. And that included writing a book, and then we were going to start a speaking tour nine months later. Well fast forward, a month into knowing my business partner Justin, we ended up doing our very first talk. And from there now we've spoken in ten countries, and have taken hundreds of students through our online training, and taught thousands of people around the world this methodology that we created. But the way we did it was really not following the formula, and doing all of the things that people think that you need to do first.

And what we really did was follow or excitement. And so flow Principle Number one is to follow your highest excitement in every moment. And our excitement was taking us to Coast Rica for an efficient festival. And well we thought, “Why don't we just speak there?” But we hadn't really ever spoken anywhere before. And so the normal path would be to do some sort of speaker training, and to practice going to Toastmasters, and really just build yourself up as a speaker first. But we had just decided we were gonna go for it.

And so we reached out, we applied, but they said that all of the speakers had already been chosen. And I think that's where most people shut down. Once they hear a no, it's end of story, case closed. And we thought, “Well how else could this happen? How else could this be possible?” And so we asked around in our network if anyone had any connections to envision. And we were connected with the founder who put us in touch with the speaker coordinator, and she got on a call with us. And we just shared our message about flow, and effortless living.

And she was so interested that she ended up moving the whole schedule to open up a prime spot for us, gave us an all-expenses paid trip there, and we had our very first speaking gig there. Which then led to a bunch of other speaking opportunities that different events, and conferences, and festivals, and it has been nonstop ever since. So it was really just stepping out and doing the thing that we were most excited about; not taking no for an answer, not feeling like we had to have all of the systems in place. And then even if we had our website up at that point. But it was just honoring the whole what we were most drawn to do.

Michaela: I love those questions you said, “How else could this happen? How could this be possible?” Tell me a bit more about how you think those work when you ask those questions for yourself. And who’re you asking when you asked those questions?

Jackie: Yes, so those questions are really just kind of breaking you out of limitation. And that's really what flow is. It's really this new operating system for consciousness that allows you to experience more limitless for reality. Because your rational mind will say, “Oh well, speakers are already chosen, so now I have to wait for next year.” But when you're holding the space for infinite possibilities, and realizing that everything is actually possible, that allows for magic to happen, and spontaneity. So even where I met you at the DNX conference in Portugal, how that came to be was I was supposed to be going to speak at an event in Greece. And a friend of mine said, “Oh well hey, I'm speaking at this thing in Portugal.”

And she's like you should come. And I was like, “Well do they need any more speakers?” Same thing. She said, “No, it's been booked up for months.” And I was like, “That doesn’t really mean much to me. I would you be open to reaching out to the organizers.” And so she reached out, and asked if they needed any speakers. And they said, “No.” All of the speakers were booked. But the MC just backed out. Would I want to be the MC for the events?

And I was like, “Holy shit!” And in that moment, I was frozen because I'd never MCed at an event before. This was 500 people, so it was the largest event I would have spoken at. So I had never done this before. So it was terrifying to me, but also thrilling. And that's really the sweet spot for flow is following the thing that is in your highest excitement, but also scares the shit out of you. So by asking those questions, “How else could that be possible?” That keeps you in a more expansive limitless reality rather than going into the logical rational minds with that will just shut down all of these different possibilities.

Michaela: And I remember when you were the MC. You admitted on stage in front of 500 people. I have never done an MC before and I my little nervous.

Jackie: Yeah, I also sang on stage which is something that I never imagined I would do.

Michaela: Right and it was fun, and you had to do a little a exercises. We have a 3-minute break between the speakers, and you'd have a stand up, and talk to our neighbor, or I forget what else you had. But it was all quite experiential which is quite hard to do with 500 people. So you weren’t just an MC, you were an engaging MC.

Jackie: And that was the thing as a well and here again doing things that are different, not following the mold. I could have read about how to be an MC, and followed a formula for how to do it. But instead, I just felt empty. Like what would I want if I were in the audience participating? How would I want to experience this event? And so I brought the things that I know, and that I love, and that I would want to experience. And so I ended up leading with a meditation, and people were crying in it, and coming up to me after like, “Wow I've never experienced anything like that before, and certainly not at a conference”.

And it was like they'd never expected anything like that or authentic relating practices. And so doing things differently allowed for a completely different experience, and for people to be exposed to completely new practices. So I think we even did breathe work on one of the breaks. So it's certainly not your typical conference. But rather than fitting into a mold of how I think it should be done, I felt into what would feel exciting for me, and what I think would serve the audience. And it ended up being really, really fun, inexpensive for people.

Michaela: I would definitely say so. I think it helped really you improve the event; not the event was amazing to start with. So you mentioned that it was… this is something that was terrifying, and exciting when you're following your flow, and doing stuff spontaneously. And I'm going into these infinite possibilities where you didn't take no for an answer, and you didn't require yourself to have all the experience, and training to do it. What… I'm kind of curious. What's the difference between terror, and excitement?

Jackie: Well to me they're actually the same because they're all… it's just energy. So someone once said (I care a member who was) but that anxiety is just excitement without the breathe. So it's really just energy moving through your body. And so if you can really focus that energy, right. So when I got on that stage… Initially it was more backstage whereas feeling really nervous. But then once I got out there, I just took a deep breathe, and that relaxed me. And then it just it felt like home. Like being on stage. I had a theater background. So for me it just it took me back to being in that place where I'm a loved being on stage and performing. And suddenly, it wasn't like this big scary task that I was taking on.

But really that… So we say that they're the greatest flow accelerator is finding that sweet spot between the thing that feels really scary. Because it's an edge that you're leaning into. It's a fear. But it's also something that you really want. Like I was approached by… well someone who works with Ted. And he is.. he finds my story compelling. And he wants to help get me on the TED stage; and not Ted acts like Ted. And so that scares the shit out of me. It's like that wasn't even on my radar of something that I thought I wanted. But once I heard it, it was really exciting to me.

But then I'm also finding like, “Oh my God that's in two months! I can't do that.” It's like a growth. But it's that thing that I can totally see myself doing it. But then when I actually think of myself up there, I'm like, “I can't do that.” And any doubts and fears start to creep in. So but that's the thing that's gonna be the greatest growth edge for me. So when I can really step into that place that's where I'm gonna experience the most flow. Most people don't into that because fear holds them back. So holds themselves back, and stay in their comfort zone rather than pushing their edges, and playing with those boundaries.

Michaela: Yes almost like instead of having the horse of fear holding you back and keeping you in your little prison cell of comfort, you’re like jumping on the fear horse, and riding it. It seems a lot of practice of growth.

Jackie: A lot of practice at that. So I'm very well versed in that now. I have always been someone who’s pushed my edges in every way. And I've traveled the world for the last several years. And been to over 60 countries, and I've jumped out of planes. I've done Canyon swings across Gorges. I'm done night dives.

Michaela: What’s a Canyon swing?

Jackie: It's like a bungee jump. But it's like swimming across the gorge.

Michaela: Oh! Like a trapeze artist.

Jackie: Something like that. I've also trapeze. So that was also terrifying too. Is… I was afraid of being upside down. I have a memory, and I don’t know if this actually happened of being a child, and slipping on a swing, and hanging upside down by my hair. That may not have actually happened. It was this very real fear around that. For a long time I was terrified of being upside down. It would did I do? I signed up for Ariel sulks classes and antigravity.

And so I pushed that edge in the first time I had to do a backflip in the class, I was bawling my eyes out. It was so embarrassed because I was crying about doing this you know, going upside down in this [inaudible] [13:37]. But consistently lean into those edges. I was also really terrified of being underwater. And I was caught in a rip current with it, and so had the [inaudible] of being held under water. So never became a great underwater swimmer.

And my first surf lesson in Costa Rica when I was on the sand. When you're… I don't know if you've ever done a surf lesson. But I was on the sand doing the preparations. You know how to jump on your board. And while I was on the land, I was crying because I was so afraid because I knew what was coming. They were gonna make me get in the water, and then the waves were going to come. So even before I got in the water, I was terrified. But I pushed myself, and I did a dive training. And there was a moment where I was… when I had to take the regulator out and let it go. I was like [inaudible].

Michaela: This is when you’re like five or ten feet down and…

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: Like take the oxygen out of your mouth.

Jackie: Yeah and I was like, “Hell no! I'm not doing that. You've got to be insane.” And it took me a good five minutes of meditating under the water, and just really having that moment with myself to talk myself through it to actually do it. But in the end I did it, and then I've had some amazing dives since then.

Michaela: It's a magical world. I mean I learnt to dive. And the first dive, it was choppy. And it was kind of the water was moving around on the water, and probably I was nervous. And I was really afraid I'd show up inside the regulator which is not a good idea. So I didn't throw up in the regulator. But as soon as I got to the surface into the boat, I did throw up, and I felt really shaky, and I was like I'm not doing this again. But I went back two days later, and got my qualification overcame the fears I had. So…

Jackie: Life becomes so much richer when you're really lean to these edges.

Michaela: And just to be clear to people listening. We're not talking about something that is rationally really dangerous. Like I don't know; can’t think of anything really dangerous. But I mean it's not like you take a machine gun and shoot bullets to yourself or something hoping to miss. It's like you're doing something that's an irrational fear that on a rational basis. Other people have done this, or you can tell it's not highly likely you're gonna injure yourself or die. But you’ve got [crosstalk] [16:25].

Jackie: The pushing your physical limits because you wanna be afraid. If you're going to step out on the wing of the plane, I would hope that some fear mechanism [inaudible]. So those are there to support us, and some of us are just adrenaline junkies and live for the real. But the thing is fear is the biggest dream killer. So fear holds us back from everything that we want in life. And the thing is it's not the fear that you're saying that you would expect to face when you're facing a hungry lion, or jumping off a building.

You want that kind of fear, is a protective mechanism. The kind of things that hold us back are fear of being seen. So if you have a fear of being seen you're not gonna be going on Facebook Live, and filming podcasts, and putting yourself on stage. Because there's that fear of rejection, or all of these deeper psychological fears that feel really real, but are just holding us back from everything that we want.

Michaela: Yeah or fear of messing up or…

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: Got some of the big qualm for a lot of people.

Jackie: And I don't love… I'm much more of a behind the camera kind of person. I love taking pictures and taking videos. I… it's not…

Michaela: Jackie, I just wanna let you know you're actually in front of the camera right now. I know you thought you were gonna be behind it.

Jackie: That's actually way more comfortable for me. When I started doing these videos and stuff, I was so uncomfortable.

Michaela: Yes, me too.

Jackie: I'm still not super natural. There's people that love it, and thrive in front of the camera. It still feels a bit awkward for me. There especially when it when there's no one of the other ends. Like when we're filming our course or something. And I'm just looking at a blank screen and talking. It feels really uncomfortable. But for me I know that this message is so important to share that I can push aside any of my own stuff, and lean into that fear, and that discomfort of the growth hedge. And then over time it just becomes easier. So now I'm so much more comfortable than I was before. And as they continue to do it who knows maybe one day I'll even love being in front of the camera.

Michaela: It's possible. I had some friends recently. They did this 90-day video challenge where you publish a video every single day for 90 days. If you miss a day, you have to start again counting at one. So and I was like, “Shit that sounds too frightening. I don't think I'm a little nervous being on video. What if people don't like what I have to say, or I look stupid, or I'm changing my gender so which gender am I gonna be when I'm on the video?” Oh my God! But something in me said, “Yeah, you need to do this.” So I said, “Yes, I'll do it.” And I think I'm on day 83 right now in the challenge.

Jackie: [Inaudible] [19:35]

Michaela: Yes and I'm so much… I'm just echoing what you said. I'm so much for having done that. I'm much more comfortable doing it. And there are other people doing a similar 90-day challenge where they're writing content, blog articles because they're afraid of sharing their writing in public. And they committed to publishing something every single day. And it's amazing the gymnastics our egos will go through up to make up an excuse why we can't do that, or why we can't do it today, or why it's not good enough to publish, or I'm not feeling good I can’t do a video today or whatever the thing is. Or the other thing I've seen. I didn't do this because I opted to do Facebook lives. I figured let's go in the fucking deep and do the think that I any other videos will be easy having done live ones.

Jackie: oh yeah

Michaela: Plus I already know from having edited video in the past that creating one minute video can take an hour of editing. So in a perfectionist would just go nuts on video editing.

Jackie: I totally get that.

Michaela: People also make things so complicated. I don't know if you've seen that for your live for other people. It's life so in business they… instead you know there's an easy way, or there’s the hard way. A lot of people go for the hard way.

Jackie: Very much so, yeah. I mean that's what we're working to shift here is to bring people into a new paradigm of effortlessness, and be done with the hustle and grind, and struggle, and we're working out of alignment so that things feel challenging. And one of the things is really by staying in your zone of genius, and doing the things that are naturally inspiring to you, and exciting to you. And I think that's one of the reasons why my business works so well. Because Justin and I are very clear on what we're great at. And we stay in our lanes, we stay in or zones of genius, and so we naturally complement each other in that way.

So he's doing the things that would normally paralyze me. Like back end tech stuff, and copywriting. And things like that where I'm naturally an extreme extrovert. So it's totally my zone of genius to be out in the world at conferences with hundreds or even thousands of people. And just being open, and sharing this message. And so we just do the thing that feels effortless to us and what feels like play. And then things work so smoothly.

Michaela: Now I love that. And you mentioned earlier why fit in when you can stand out? How does that relate deals zone of genius? It sounds like that's maybe part of it.

Jackie: Yeah, I think a lot of people try to fit into a mold or they read a book about like how Iran mosque was successful in the trial, what it's like to be on mosque, and Iran is of very special type of person and not everyone can be like that. So following the Iran mosque formula doesn't work for everyone, or whoever it is. You might be inspired by someone and trying to build a business or do things the way that they do. But that's not living in your zone of genius, or doing the thing that actually lights you up, or is exciting. You're just doing the things that you think you should be doing because you read a book, or you heard it from Gary Vaynerchuk; whatever it is.

We see this a lot with our clients too. This wanting to look and be a certain way because you're afraid to truly express yourself. And that's one of the things that I admire so much about you is you know… especially in the shift that you're going through. And being so visible, and sharing it so openly. It's really vulnerable and magic. But that fearlessness, and that really just showing who you are is inspiring. So if you are operating from a place not wanting to be in your truth and who you are, that's gonna create an energetic barrier that people aren't gonna be able to feel who you are. And I'm really weird. And so the more chance…

Michaela: You are!

Jackie: I mean [crosstalk] [24:12].

Michaela: What’s the weirdest thing about you Jackie? Do share.

Jackie: Weirdest thing about me. I have a quirky sense of humor. I've done some really strange things over my life.

Michaela: What the strangest thing you've ever done? And you feel okay to share with our audience.

Jackie: The strangest thing I've ever done. Yeah, I don’t know. I mean in high school, I just kinda had a thing where everyone else was like I went to a Catholic school, so we all had uniforms, and everyone looked the same.

Michaela: That's pretty strange to start with.

Jackie: Well that wasn’t really my choice. But in the end I'm grateful for it. It was an amazing school. But I don't know if you can imagine this. But I was super into punk rock.

Michaela: A punk rock Catholic school girl!

Jackie: I had a super short pixie cut. I had my eyebrows pierced and it's such a change a… I changed from who I show up as now. But there was this non-conformist that I wanted to be able to express myself in a way that I didn't feel like I had the capacity in just school where everyone looked the same, and dressed the same. And out so I would just do weird things just to see if people would still like me. Like I walked around with a rubber duck on a leash at one point. And the irony people were more curious, and I had more friends. And just by being my weird quirky self, and people can feel who I am and they can connect to me and relate to me.

And so when you're operating outside of that and trying to be a certain way because you think you have to or I have friends who go and speak on stage in Burning Man gear. So you think just because you're doing like a professional's speaking gig, or speaking at a corporation that now I've got a button up and put on a suit. It's staying true to who you are no matter what that you will draw in the people that are so fully aligned with you that they're gonna want to buy all of your products. They're gonna want to engage with whatever you're putting out there because they're connecting to you.

And the thing is I think if… And coming from a former people pleaser, I really… In the past, I really wanted everyone to like me. So I can understand why people would wanna try and make their content so it suits everyone, or don't want to say the wrong thing is that it will trigger people, or maybe to lose some of their audience. But the thing is if you're truly being yourself, you may polarize some people. And you may lose some of your fans or your customers. But they were never truly connecting with who you are anyway, and that's really stifling. So by being authentically you, you're gonna draw in your exact right people who are gonna be super loyal and super committed.

Michaela: I think that's a great way to look at it and to just let you know that people pleasing. And it doesn't mean you have to go to people bashing, or whatever the opposite people pleasing is…

Jackie: right

Michaela: … opposite it's being your true self and letting your light shine. I guess that's what a lot of people are afraid of; really letting their light shine, their energy shine out.

Jackie: Yeah, they're in there so much baggage that comes along with that as well.

Michaela: So speaking of letting your life shine now. You have it you were funded for 10 million dollars for your dream business. You had been working on for six years. Someone was going to fund it for 10 million dollars, but your intuition told you to down that deal which took a lot of bulls which…

Jackie: Yeah, if I had them. Infinitely it was.

Michaela: bass troubles

Jackie: Yeah, I mean it was definitely a bold decision, and one that a lot of people couldn't really understand. But it was so true for me. And what happened was I've been holding this vision, I'm still holding this vision. To revolutionize the way therapy is delivered for special needs children. That's really centered around caring for the caregivers as well as the children.

And this offer for funding came through on paper. It really looked like everything that I'd been holding out for for years. And I checked in with my body, and I wasn’t excited. There was nothing about it that was lighting me up. And I kept checking in because here's everything I thought I wanted. And I even got reflections from colleagues of mine that are really successful coaches. And they reflected back to me that they didn't seem really lit up by this.

And I just knew I can accept it because even though it was like 90 percent of everything that I thought I wanted, it wasn't a hell yes for me. And so being able to say no to the nine to make space for the ten because I have this radical trust. I would rather hold out for the thing that may never come. And it may never come and that's okay. But I would rather hold out for that than sacrifice what I truly want. And so I was able to say no to that to go and coach on a tech incubator in Chile for three months where I wasn't getting even paid. So try explaining that to people. They just they didn't get it, but then…

Michaela: Yeah, let's see. We've got 10 million dollars funding nine out of ten from my six year dream. We've got paid trip to foreign country I haven't been to before.

Jackie: Yeah, I mean it's just… It was a crazy decision. But I knew what I was feeling drawn to. And now we work with so many tech companies and founders that I didn't even realize there was a whole world out there. That's why I first heard a bitcoin and 3-D printing, and all of these things. And I was like, “Wow! Where have I found been since like… You know there's a whole things that were so inspiring to me. And now my favorite people to work with are these people who are working in emerging tech, and all of these disruptive industries.

But I wouldn't have known that if I hadn't followed my intuition which led me to that. And also very shortly after I turned down this offer, I was at [inaudible] [31:45] in Utah and I was introduced to someone who said it's our destiny to work together. And he introduced me to a neuroscientist who is working with this cutting edge technology. And then I met a geneticist who was mapping autism genome. And like all of these things were so much more of a hell yes for me. And so even though the vision hasn't fully actualized yet, there's still threads that keep unfolding, and I keep meeting people that are more fully aligned with that.

So being okay with the uncertainty, and not clinging and being attached to it actually showing up in a certain way allowed for other possibilities to come through. And also just not being attached to it ever happening. This clinic may never actualize and that's okay because I'm trusting in my guidance and what is actually inspiring me in the moment which now is sharing this message of flow.

Michaela: That is intriguing. So if this lifelong… this six year dream you had doesn't happen, you're not attached to it not happening because other exciting things happened.

Jackie: Right and so often, we get stuck on well now I've invested so much time and energy into this vision, or this project, or whatever this it that we feel like we have to stick or if we don't stick with the thing we said we were gonna do. But that can be a trap. So being able to still hold the vision. I'm not projecting as much energy into it as I am with flow consciousness because that's really where my excitement is. But I'm still holding the vision.

And just last year, I was invited to Jordan to potentially open an autism clinic. And I'm exploring other possibilities with people who are doing cutting edge things in the autism space. So I'm still holding the vision. I'm not projecting as much energy into it. But I'm also not attached to it happening just because I've been saying it for so long. People get caught up in my life talked about this. So now I look like a failure, or I look flaky, or in a way get caught up in what other people think rather than the one.

Michaela: I love that. And are you attach to you manifesting it? Or like if it does appear do you have to be the executive director or what for the role would be?

Jackie: No, I've always said that and I feel that I'm here to birth this vision into the world. And I want zero to do with the actual implementation or execution of the vision. So that's always been my thing. And one of my gifts is I’m a weaver, I'm a super connector. And so I have a capacity to have this strong pattern recognition that I can see connections in people and resources. And so if I'm just the person who calls together all of the people to make this vision a reality that's okay too. I don't need my name on a center. I don't need any [inaudible] [35:03], or fame. It's just I feel strongly that this is something that needs to be birthed in the world. So if someone else does it, amazing. I'm not attached

Michaela: Wow! That's very flowey. So I love how you are super connected. It sounds like you use that talent to connect with your business partner you didn't even know. And I believe you were in Bali and our fans said, “Let's have coffee in New York.” And you said, “Sure!”

Jackie: Yeah, yeah because she reached out, and…

Michaela: She reached out and this was a hell yes for you to have coffee with her, or what?

Jackie: In that moment when I said yes, it was like, “Sure why not.” I had this flexibility in my schedule. At that point I was fully nomadic. I was traveling around. I was in Bali and I was going back what was then home life and actually have a home from the [inaudible] [36:08]. So I was going back to visit friends and family, and my schedule was completely open. So I said, “Sure [inaudible] for coffee and no big deal.

But then when I got back to New York, it was complete mayhem. You know trying to fit in all of my friends, and family, and clients, and business meetings, and things. And my schedule was suddenly jam packed. And I was sitting and I remember sitting on the curb on the street in New York talking to my coach. And I don't know why I said yes to this woman. Like I don't have the space in my schedule right now. And she was something like I needed a filter to just kind of see who's coming to me, and what the actual purpose because I didn't even know why we were meeting.

But intuitively I just said yes and I made the space, and then honored that commitment, and I met with her. Had a really beautiful time together, and I was sharing about flow. And she was like, “Whoa! You need to talk to my coach Justin and Fairmen because he speaks about flow in the same way that you did. And so she put us in touch. And it's just funny to trace back those moments of what if I didn't meet this woman for coffee. What would my life be like now had I not followed that? And let's say you know like my coach said I needed a filter, and she didn't have a real reason for wanting to meet me. And I filtered her out of my schedule.

Michaela: wow!

Jackie: What would my life be like?

Michaela: yes

Jackie: It’s like one of those sliding doors moment. And though really just trusting that intuition. And sometimes you don't know why and it doesn't [inaudible]. But there's a greater wisdom in that and so that led me to this connection with Justin who's now my business partner, and one of my best friends. And we’re doing this this amazing work in the world.

Michaela: That is amazing how you use your intuition… And you didn't even know why you were meeting this woman, and you didn't really want to meet with their. I mean she was fine, but you didn't know until you met with what the why was. But you still went ahead and trusted your intuition.

Jackie: I didn't even ask why. And that's the thing is I tend not to research things or if I'm connected to someone, I don't ever look them up before. I just trust that there's a reason why we're connecting. And that'll play out as were just for that in conversation or something. So I tend to not ask any questions. I have a deep intuitive knowing and that's kind of how it shows for me. And I’ve learned not to question that because a lot of times it just doesn't make sense. So my intuition shows up strongly as like it's a clear yes. I don't need to know the how or why. And I just go with it and see what happens.

Michaela: Now that is something I know some of our listeners have challenge with. They get an intuitive message, but then the ego mind’s like, ‘Why are we doing this? It doesn't make sense. Oh I don't know if this is really my intuition speaking.” All those doubting voices come in. How did you… do you have to have those doubting voices Jackie, or?

Jackie: totally yeah

Michaela: So how did you overcome that?

Jackie: Yeah, so those voices were really coming from fear, and doubt, and all of these other kind of denser energies. Back when I was living in a place that was out of alignment, I didn't really know who I was. And I was trying to play the game more. So that's when it showed up for me. I was also kind of cut off from feeling. It experienced some traumatic situations. And like I just completely stopped feeling because I didn't feel like it was safe for me to feel. So I just wasn't even in touch with my body and sensation. So if someone told me to feel my feelings and rather than think about something I just didn't even know what that meant because I didn't have that access.

So it was really a process of my own healing, and integration, and working through those things that as that fear, that resistance, that doubt, and all of those things kind of cleared out. And I really learned how to feel by just being with my feelings then I learned to actually to an end because that made the way. I mean there are so many different things that you can do to clear the space for your intuition to come through. But it's really just taking the time to learn how it shows up for you. And learning what's fear, and what's resistance, what's doubt, and all of these other things. And the difference is intuition doesn't communicate in motion. It's intuition will communicate through a felt sense, through a sensation.

So if you're experiencing emotions like fear, it's a sign that your rational mind is interpreting this intuitive feeling. So it's really about tuning in and feeling. Does this feel light, and expansive, and open, and free? Or does it feel dark, and heavy, and contracting? And learning what that shows up like in your body and tuning into that felt that felt sense. And then when you start to have thoughts that's just you're rational mind saying, “Oh no you can't do that because that doesn't make sense.” So it's learning to not listen to the mind which will… It's inherently limited based on your belief structures. So your body's wisdom is so much more profound.

So when you can push aside any of the second guessing, or the doubts, or the thoughts that are coming up and really just go with what your body was Simmons telling you, that will profoundly shift you into flow. But it's really a lot of the flow that you teach us about doing the deep inner work to get in and to create these beliefs, and traumas, and things that are clouding your intuition, but also eliminating the noise in your inner system. So we have so much background noise and by eating really clean, eliminating toxins, and in your life there's all these ways that you can become more of a channel for your intuition to come through.

Michaela: I mean I interviewed someone whose name is Jeremy a few episodes ago, and he had like this 18-day fast. So within a few days of not distract himself with food, he was getting [inaudible] [43:23] intuitive messages.

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: I'm not saying you need to stop eating, but we often use food to cover stuff up our mouth and emotions.

Jackie: Yeah, I did a 5-day water fast and it was profound and it just shows you all of the ways you like you said habitually using food, or just eating because you have to and just for the programming and conditioning that's there. And there's so many different ways that people choose to numb out and not feel because we're taught that you don't want to have these emotions like sadness, or fear, or anger. But they're just feelings. Like they're nothing really needs to be scared. And if you just be with them and show up and acceptance and unconditional love for whatever's there, it actually dissolves and they live through pretty quickly. But it's in that resistance and not wanting to feel it that think it stuck.

Michaela: Yeah, I mean I was… I have a friend called Russell who just wrote a book called ‘The Sober Entrepreneur’. And he was using alcohol and working to numb out his feelings. He doesn't think he's got some… I think his business does about four million a year now. But he doesn't think he'd ever have built that business if he hadn't been able to feel his feelings, and pay attention to his intuition, and have clarity. So think it was a lot of value both personally and in business. So I know you’re the queen or princess of an effortless living. I wasn't quite sure which title you had today.

Jackie: And we're gonna go with the Empress.

Michaela: Empress of… I love it. Empress effortless living in Effortdonia. I guess that's the country where a famous effortless living occurs the most, right. So but I know from my own work there's just so much in that entrepreneur mindset you're supposed to hustle and struggle. And if you don't work hard for it, it's not worth it. So all those puritan beliefs get pounded into us in something in America and I think you know the countries. And in school, right? I mean a lot of the school messages… you're not supposed to succeed through intuition, and creativity, and nonconformity. You’re supposed to conform, and work hard, and suffer. And you're a good Catholic girl.

Jackie: Actually was just reading an article or I just skimmed it. So I don’t wanna quote it because they are probably getting it wrong. But it was something that NASA gives this creativity test to their astronauts and they gave this test to 5-year-olds and they all passed with flying colors. And then they repeated it may be at like ten or 15. And just like as the years progressed, they started decreasing to the point where it was just completely stifled, and that's what happens. Yeah and we're taught in school that you've got to work hard, and to get a gold star, and then you're rewarded for putting in effort.

And you start to link your worth to achievement. And you're putting in effort and working hard so that means belief becomes so deeply ingrained that we just don't even think it's possible to experience wealth, or success, or joy, or fulfillment in an effortless way. So it's really… We were working to create this new paradigm where people are living from that place, and really working to shift those deeply ingrained cultural beliefs.

Michaela: So how do you shifts those beliefs? Because I'm imagining some people listening if not most people probably do work long hours in their business and do find parts of their business a struggle.

Jackie: Yeah, well I mean there's so much to it. So we talk about this inner flow which is working through beliefs, and emotions, and different traumas, and things. And so just digging up what your actual core beliefs are around work, around relations, around love, life; whatever they are. We have these beliefs that have been programmed in through your culture, media, religion, our families; all of these experiences. So getting to the root of what those beliefs are. And we work through them at emotional, energetic, mental, and physical level to really rewire the neurology and to eliminate these beliefs. But then we also have a principle based system.

So there's by following all of these different things like following your excitement, learning to tap into your intuition; it starts to shift those. Because if you're living out of alignment with what you actually wanna be doing, it is gonna feel like work, and it is gonna feel like struggle on you're gonna have to hustle and make it in order to work. But when you're truly living in alignment, and you're not doing something just because you're afraid, you're not gonna be able to pay your bills so you can't do this project that you really wanna work on.

Because you don't think you can get paid to do what you love or you're working and a job or you know pushing and struggling because that's how the money is coming in. And you're afraid to leave that to do you really wanna do, or we're doing something just because it's more socially acceptable or you wanted to support your parents, or whatever it is. When you're living out of alignment, it's gonna be a lot harder to swallow. So there's a lot of moving parts to that to work through.

Michaela: Yeah, I mean I've met a number of people who are… They have careers that they created their parents wanted them to have.

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: But it doesn’t really doesn't really light their fire.

Jackie: I have so many friends who are in law school, or went to law school, or medical school, or something just because they're from a line of doctors or lawyers and their family the… couldn't pursue their musical career; whatever it is it's what they really do because they didn't want to disappoint their family. And they didn't think that they could you know, it's too competitive, or they're not good enough.

Michaela: too risky

Jackie: Right and they just didn't think they'd be able to support themselves. So instead they're just kind of slowly dying inside because they’re out of alignment. So really the work that we do is to help people navigate that and come back to what is true for them. And as you start to make these inner shifts and your external reality shifts to match that.

Michaela: Yeah, I mean living out of alignment just becomes soul destroying, and aging. I think it destroys people's health as well.

Jackie: absolutely

Michaela: You can see this in people who are stuck in careers because they're afraid to change and they’re just often their health declines and they grow older than some of their peers who are following their joy so.

Jackie: Yeah and you're just living and in a stress response which is toxic for your body, and creates illness, and disease. So it's really…. It's kind of mission critical to do this where I can examine.

Michaela: yea!

Jackie: You owe it to yourself to really come back to that place where you're operating from what's true for you, and what actually lights you up. Imagine a world where everyone was living on their purpose. Like how amazing would that be? An inner joy. I just you know, I kind of get excited and a lot of people are like worried about the Machine Age and the rise of the machines and the robot. Some people are gonna lose their jobs and everything. But I think wow, what an opportunity for people to actually live the life that they want and pursue something that’s inspiring to them that may not have felt like an option before.

Michaela: Do you think in the future the robot's array eyes will be able to follow their joy as well?

Jackie: I'm not sure. I don't know. Honestly, Justin and I were reading an article recently I forgot they have been like Lynn McTaggart or something and I was like how these… I have to read the full article. But these ducklings or chicks were socialized with a robot that was like programmed [inaudible] [52:44] to just kind of move around anywhere. But then that the chicks look prepared just after birth and [inaudible] with its mother. But then the curious thing was then the robot which was programmed to just kind of move all over started spending more time in the area where the chicks or the ducklings were so…

Michaela: Da, da, da, da, da, da, da.

Jackie: Very curious, very interesting how the chicks were able to interact in consciousness with those robot. So yeah, I'm not sure. We're living in an exciting time.

Michaela: Yeah, I mean there's that book ‘The Age of Spiritual Machines’ that Ray Kurzweil. Well if I put in. I think I got his name slightly wrong. I'll get it right in the show notes. But yes, some people do think that machines will have a spiritual aspect once they become sufficiently conscious. So but maybe that's a discussion for another time. Though I will say I've studied plenty of research on the ability of humans. I didn't know ducklings could do this. But it's definitely being statistically demonstrated that humans can modify random number generators by meditative conscious thought. And if you take like Buddhist, monks meditated for decades they can be very effective tweaking with a random number generator, and having it not be totally random.

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: The other experiment I remember is that someone set up random number generators around the world. You know maybe the ten of them around the world or whatever. And they just leave them running and then they look at the news and see if something that would affect billions of people because it's a big newsworthy story happens. And then they look back and see what happened to the random number generator and was cystically lightly that they did what they did. And one of the examples was back whenever the… Who was an American football player who was accused of murdering his wife and her boyfriend?

Jackie: [Inaudible] [55:00]

Michaela: And yeah, when that verdict came out and there were riots in L.A. afterwards when the third it was announced, those random number generators went totally nonrandom.

Jackie: wow!

Michaela: Yeah because billions of people were watching T.V. at the same moment waiting for the verdict. And they either really like the verdict, or they really hated it. And that burst of emotion just shifted that reality. So it's very… That's all stuff from [inaudible] which you're probably familiar with.

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: Right Institute of no added Sciences. Cool! Well we have come close to the end of our time. But I do have a few questions, and I know you want to share how people find you, and so do I. So why are you proud to use your intuition in business Jackie?

Jackie: I’m proud to use my intuition in business because my innate guidance system is so much more intelligent than my rational mind could ever be. So it just it gives me access to so many more possibilities and exponential growth.

Michaela: That makes a lot of sense to me. Now as I think you may know I'm on a mission for all entrepreneurs and business leaders to openly use their intuition at work partly because they'll make more money, and they'll have more joy, and less stress, be healthier. But also I just believe if every business leader use their intuition as well as their rational mind, they’d make less stupid decisions that hurt other people on the planet. So what would it take to make business intuition more openly used this year?

Jackie: I think more conversations around it really and there's just our society is trained and taught to respect the intellect and logic and reason and that's great. And there's definitely a place for it and there's a place for strategy. It's not saying that you're never gonna use these things, but it's really some of the most brilliant minds of all time. You know Einstein was rich a huge proponent of intuition and Steve Jobs and all of these really amazing innovators and creative thinkers were operating from this place of really just bringing these conversations to the forefront and shifting that focus on why intuition is important.

Because people don’t even realized that they are intuitive. So I think it… when people are so cut off from that because we're trained to think things through rather to really tap into our intuitive guidance. But I think from the top down is really having more people speak out about the value of intuition. But then I think also from the ground up is really shifting the focus for children and allowing that creativity to flourish instead of stifling them and kind of…

Michaela: No more tests, more standardized tests; that's what we… no.

Jackie: Yeah and really just you know, I think the shift starts from both ends and bringing it back into the school system and allowing for more of that. You know the creativity and intuition to be valued at that level.

Michaela: Yeah, no I think if we can shift to how children are nurtured and learn… I don't wanna use the word educate because it sort of smacks of telling you what to do. It’s what they need to learn and create on their own I think with guidance, or aid; whatever. But that you know, it's… I just was thinking when you were saying that the that program we have in the United States ‘No Child Left Behind’ which sounds kind of all fuzzy and quite nice. But in reality it's like oh you must follow the rules and do the standardized tests and there's no freedom for creativity for the teacher or all the children. It's almost out of [crosstalk]

Jackie: Kids are trapped in a like a dark room where they’re expected to sit in a seat for eight hours a day and you know worked with special needs and there's just not a place for a lot of these kids. So they learn differently and so they're just kind of pushed to the side. They don't know what to do with them because they're trying to fit them into this conformist way of being and their bodies need movement and they need proper perceptive input. And just sitting at a desk all day doesn't work for them.

But then they're labeled as you know that they have special needs or something, so it's really. There needs to be kind of a system wide education overhaul. And I think there's a lot of people that I know my colleagues that are working on creating different kinds of schools where kids are out in nature and they're learning differently, and they're bringing in things that might be more valuable to them in the world like emotional intelligence. And it may be coding or something, and so bringing in different things. And kind of doing schooling differently.

Michaela: And as entrepreneurs even if we're not involved in education in schools, we can still shift the culture in our company and empower the people who work with us to grow those skills.

Jackie: Absolutely, I mean I think just even doing exercises like thumb to use rapid prototyping or something, and things to build your divergent thinking; thinking skills. And really when you're in Britain starring session like really tossing out the most recent ridiculous ideas without criticism because that's where so much innovation comes from, right. So those with the most open third thing can be thrown out in the room and someone may be like, “Oh well wait that could actually work.” And then it's just challenging the status quo not being afraid to say the thing that sounds stupid or silly, and just thinking bigger than you could even dream was possible. So being willing to sound ridiculous. There's so much value in that.

Michaela: Like an ipod doesn't need an on off switch. What a ridiculous idea. And yeah, that was something that someone tossed out a meeting at Apple and it doesn't have an on/off switch.

Jackie: yeah

Michaela: I mean there isn't needed.

Jackie: There's so many things and it just it takes that willingness and also kind of a safe environment, right. So I think that's something that companies and people can build into their corporate culture is this container where it's safe to share ridiculous ideas and to think outside of the box. And where that's value to foster that divergent thinking and that creativity because that's where true innovation and disruption comes from, and everything starts as an idea. And you don't have to know the how, but it all comes from an idea. So just being willing to share your most ridiculous ideas is all [inaudible] start.

Michaela: So before we go to how people can find you, I just wanna apologize for all the fireworks going off in the background. I was gonna speak to that earlier. It's not gunshots guys, it's fireworks. The custodians love to let off fireworks. They don't need to [crosstalk] [1:03:35]. There they go; bomb, bomb, bomb. They really love doing it for in the morning too. Supposedly it's for religious reasons. I think it's just they're following their joy. Yeah, so if people wanna find you online, what are the best ways to do it?

Jackie: They can go to our website flowconsciousnessinstitute.com, or we have an upcoming round of flow mastery which is our core 8-week online training, and that's flow-mastery.com. You can find me on Facebook or Instagram social media. Feel free to follow me there, reach out, say hey, share what insights are impactful things that you heard today, or just say hey.

Michaela: And I understand you and Justin and working on a book magically appear sometime.

Jackie: Yeah we have a lot of cool things in the works. We have a book we’re planning on doing some research later on this year and hopefully building out train the trainer program really seemed.

Michaela: Uhu fabulous! Well thank you so much for coming on the show Jackie.