Will Jrue Holiday work out for the Warriors? Something to monitor

ESPN’s Chad Ford did a mock draft today, and he had the Warriors using the No. 7 pick to select UCLA guard Jrue Holiday, which makes a lot of sense on the face of it.

Bigger-than-normal PG play-maker, can defend shooting guards, and that means Holiday has a chance to team up well with Monta Ellis in a fast Warriors backcourt.

I’d say, all outside issues being equal, Holiday and Memphis’ Tyreke Evans and Louisville’s Terrence Williams are the most likely options for the Warriors at 7, given their needs and Don Nelson’s interests.

Holiday might be the rawest of them all (a freshman like Evans, but Evans played the point at Memphis, while Holiday played off the ball because Darren Collison was the UCLA point; Williams is a senior)…

But Holiday also seems to be the most skilled. One NBA executive told me Holiday was going to be a very good point guard, maybe the best of this draft class, but the team that drafts him is going to have to wait for a year or two while Holiday learns the position.

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Anyway, these three guys are all bigger guards who have a shot to be NBA point guards and one or two of this group should be there for the Warriors at 7.

We’ve still got more than two weeks, with tons of twists and turns certainly to come. So if anybody wants to guess Holiday to the Warriors, yep, hard to argue that one. All outside things being equal.

However… I’ve noted a time or two over the last few weeks that Holiday’s advisor/agent Dan Fegan could possibly come into play in the Warriors’ decision-making and vice-versa, the Warriors’ dysfunction could enter the thinking of the Holiday Camp.

And I cannot help but notice this interesting schedule quirk:

* EARLIER TODAY: The Knicks, sitting one spot behind the GSWs and also looking for a perimeter play-maker, worked out Holiday and Davidson’s Stephen Curry;

* TOMORROW: The Warriors are scheduled to work out Syracuse’s Jonny Flynn and Brandon Jennings, the prepster who went to Italy for a year–both smaller, explosive point guards;

* FRIDAY: The Kings, drafting 4th, are scheduled to work out Flynn, Jennings AND HOLIDAY.

You notice a little absence here? Why isn’t Holiday working out for the Warriors in this roundelay?

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(You could also ask why Curry hasn’t yet worked out for them, but he’s not as ideal a physical fit for the Warriors. And of course, there’s plenty of time for both Curry and Holiday to work out.)

OK, there could be easy rational explanations.

I realize that Holiday was on the other coast today and it’s a long flight to get back here for an intense work out, if he wanted to, with Flynn and Jennings at the Warriors HQ.

Maybe Holiday’s camp just wanted a day in between, which meant he skipped the Warriors and goes straight into the Sac work out with the same guys.

But I think it’s notable that Holiday worked out in NY, which has the 8th pick, and so far has not worked out for the Warriors at 7 and is working out in Sacramento one day later, with two players who are scheduled to work out with the Warriors tomorrow.

That seems a little… different.

Whether that’s by schedule weirdness or by Holiday/Fegan’s choice or by the Warriors’ choice, I have no idea. And in the next two weeks, nothing says Holiday can’t travel here–publicly or secretly–for a Nellie Looksee.

But it’s interesting. It’s possible that the two sides are avoiding each other, at least for now, which possibly could lead to the Warriors not getting a good look at Holiday, a player who seems to fit a lot of what they want (except the he’s-too-young-for-an-old-coach thing).

I’m going to get all sorts of yelled at for noticing this, which is never a bad thing, I always figure. Come get me, TC Firehouse!

Terrence Williams name needs to NEVER be spoken again. Why are we talking about him? We have the 7th pick not the 17th pick. After Griffin, Rubio, Thabeet, you have to talk about Harden, Evans, Holiday, Jennings, Curry, Flynn, Hill, Blair, and Clark before you even bring Twill into the conversation.

FNQ

Holiday here makes too much sense… but when have we ever been really interested in a player in early June and then followed up with taking them? There wasnt ever any AR buzz until a few days before the draft… NYK is poised to make a move, but if they feel the Warriors won’t take Holiday, why move up?

If there’s one thing I’m never going to doubt, its Nellie’s deception around draft time. Holiday HAS to be on our short list of people at 7. Terrence Williams will never happen at 7.

Hank

Hmmmm. Marcus Williams and Demarcus Nelson, it was reported, were talking to Holiday. Marcus told him how much Don used him as a pass-first point and Demarcus chimed in with, “Don really loves a big point that plays defense (all ACC defense) and distributes.” “I’d be perfect,” said Jrue, “and I can’t shoot either. I pass first, play D and distribute. But since I didn’t play point in college, I’ll need some time to develop, like 3 years.” Terrance Williams was there playing OUT with Jrue and neither could put the ball in the hole. Terrance reminded Jrue that he was a bigger version of Jrue and because of his size, he was being called a “point forward.” “I know Don likes a scoring point, but because of my size, he won’t care if I can’t score.” Paahleese.

Gizzm

I guess you’ll never be on Fitz and Brooks again.
Oh well, all Bob does is spew forth arrogantly while wearing Warrior horse blinders. Still don’t know what Brooks is good at.

Tim, the link you gave is only for ESPN Insiders.
Sorry, I’m not PAYING for that shit.

Chris

Brooks is good at one thing: stuttering. “I, I, I, I, I, I can’t believe KNBR is paying someone with a speech impediment to be on air”. Fitzgerald is an arrogant POS – the know it all jerk you always wanted to smack. Last time I turned them on it lasted all of about 2 minutes.

Twinkie defense

If the Warriors have already decided who they really want, they might not bring him in, just as subterfuge. They don’t always pick a guy they brought in.

A’s in 2009

Jrue Holiday is the one guy you NEED to bring in for a workout, because he showed so little at UCLA(which I blame on the coach).

Twinkie defense

Oh I think he’s going to suck. But also that you don’t necessarily know what it means when a guy comes in (or doesn’t).

Chad ford’s mock draft just lost all credibility when he said, tyler hansbrough is getting selected at 11 by New Jersey! This guy is barely a first round talent, Blair before him

GSWFan24

If the Warriors knew better they’d steer clear of Holiday…think about it?

Positives: He has good size, solid college defender, and good handles.

Concerns: He struggled “BIG TIME” at off gaurd after being moved there because Collison was a better fit at PG for UCLA. Mind you all!!, UCLA was not a very good team last year, (Memphis and Syracuse were better, who happen to have their productive PG’s Tyreke Evans and Johnny Flynn available in the draft).

How come his game doesn’t show up in competition??? Thats a major concern. How come he couldn’t just relieve Collison of his PG duties, you mean the coach wouldn’t play the best player?

Then he get’s compared to Westbrook from OKC and the only thing they have in common is both attended UCLA, Westbrook is an explosive athlete and Holiday plays his game on the ground.

Holiday, according to experts will be ready in 2 years, the DUBS don’t need a guy that will be ready to play in 2 years, thats 2 too LONG!!!

It amazes me how a player can play a whole season and struggle, then have a couple workouts for an 1 hour 1/2, then he’s a number 1 prospect?

Allow me to enlighten you. First off, you missed a bunch of Jrue’s positives. You forgot to include that despite struggling as a shooter he at least has good form on his jumper. Practice will breed a more consistent jump shot and more confidence in taking it. Jrue has a high basketball IQ which is apparent in his exceptional feel for the game. He can finish around the rim with both hands. He’s also a great playmaker that looks to pass first and score second. You also forgot to note that he rebounds well for his position.

I can’t tell you exactly why Holiday didn’t play point guard instead of Collison. My guess is that Collison played point because he had been to 3 final fours, helping lead the team to two of them. I thought, given Holiday’s superior playmaking ability and Collison’s superior shooting and conditioning, Holiday should have triggered the offense and Collison should have come off screens. My guess though is that Howland felt that Collison had proved himself worthy of running the point by helping UCLA reach the final four 3 years in a row.

You’re right, Westbrook and Holiday aren’t alike, though both did play shooting guard at UCLA, putting up less than spectacular numbers. Holiday may not be as explosive as Westbrook but he’s a much better ball-handler, has a better feel for the game, and is a better playmaker than Westbrook. He’s actually more of a true point guard then Westbrook. Westbrook is capable of playing the 1, but he’s more suited to play the 2 but he prefers to attack to score, not pass. Holiday would definitely benefit by taking on a more aggressive mindset. I think that if he plays at his natural position -point guard – he’ll be more aggressive because his job will be to make plays for his teammates not himself.

A player can struggle most of the season and then be talked about as a potential lottery pick because when it comes to the draft it’s about potential. Playing in a rigid, structured offense of UCLA out of position, Holiday didn’t get the opportunity to showcase his skills, only his potential.

The Warriors can afford to wait on Holiday. At best next year the Warriors are going to be fighting for the 8th seed and a first round exit against the Lakers. There’s no need to pick the “safe player” at 7 who’s more ready to play right away, but has very limited potential.

Done TMC

The talent in this year’s draft stinks. 7th pick has Todd Fuller written all over it.

Trade it.

EB

I haven’t yelled at TK for a while so I’d love to take a shot, but not for his opinions on the players. I don’t get why Holliday’s agent has anything to do with who the W’s end up taking. In the NBA, rookies salaries are set based on where they are picked and they don’t change for 3 or 4 years. So if I was a player who had an agent that caused a team higher in the lottery to not pick me and cost me a higher salary, I would not have that agent. NBA agents only come into play in players second contracts and beyond. But of course TK would never bring that up, that would make too much sense. Seeing your shitty attitude towards every sport when you’re on Chronicle Live makes me hate your reporting more.

fumblin’ frank

Fitz says, “Jrue Holliday needs the Fitz and Brooks MOJO!”

Raven

Hey Tim……I guess you won’t be a guess anytime soon on KNBR

I just hope this bumblin franchise will catch a break…for the loyal fans sake

Rich in DC

I’m sick of the W’s getting shooting guards to convert into point guards, the W’s suck at it. Just draft a damn PG. We need one and the best possible athlete excuse has proven them wrong because now we are stuck with a team of tweeners log jammed at the 2 and 3 spot and the W’s trying to ram Monta as a PG down our collective throats. Round hole, square peg?

Reason

LOL @ “one NBA executive told me”…clear National Enquirer-esque BS.

If the W’s front office isn’t talking to Timmy then who would he be talking to? The Kings FO? The Lakers FO? Give me a break.

And one last thing, when using the word dysfunctional in a sentence with the GS FO and Dan Fegan, its a no-brainer as to which one should get the label. The one that hamstrings GM’s (including your buddy Mullin) and still manages to screw over his clients (Rubio) is the king of dysfuctional.

alan t.

Love your stuff, but how ’bout not linking to a pay site? ESPN puts Ford’s stuff in their hustler pay-to-play section, which I’m not about to do.

alan t.

Oh, also, why is an Alyssa Milano tweet appearing up with your tweets? If not for the fake boobs, that chick would never have had a career. Come to think of it, the same can be said of Don Nelson.

derek

i’d go with the deft analysis of the guy who’s also predicted “A’s in 2009.” he’s clearly got his finger on the pulse of things.

GSWFan24

Mr. Stan,

While I appreciate your thoughts regarding Holiday, I think you missed the mark.

1. You continue to make excuses for this kid on why he wasn’t productive.

2. I thought it was absurd to say Holiday is a better ball handler and playmaker than Westbrook from OKC. Westbrook was a top rookie this year in the NBA. Holiday struggled in college BBALL. Their is no comparison between the two.

3. Then you tell me its ok that Holiday shot 29% from the field because he has good shooting form?

4. “Upside” and “potential” are cousins, I prefer guys that actually get it done on the court. Prospects not suspects

slimman

EB – The Warriors have screwed many a Dan Fegan client, so he intelligently steers his clients away from a franchise that he considers toxic to their careers and his future ability to continue to cash in on them. Basically, he’s a good agent. Rookie salary aside, he’s thinking long-term.

joe

Raven’s right.
“Raven says:
I think the WArriors pick will be someone that Nelly won’t talk about or advertised for a workout session.”

Warriors can attend a team’s workout and not hold their own. That could be done as a favor to the agent and to hide their interests.

i’d love to get Holliday…. but would love to get Rubio much more. I was thinking B Wright + a lottery protected future 1st for Rubio if he drops to 3. That may be too much, but I’m assuming the Thunder would want more than just Wright for the #3 pick.

If anyone has missed the mark, it’s you. Take it from someone who’s been to nearly every home UCLA game the last two years and caught nearly every other game on television; Holiday’s going to be a good pro.

I’m not shocked at all by Westbrook’s stellar season. I knew that kid was going to break out before his sophomore season at UCLA just based on watching him during his freshman season. I thought that the Thunder made a great choice when they selected 4th in last year’s draft, much higher than people thought he should go given his production at UCLA. His confidence and aggressiveness combined with his athletic ability convinced that he was on his way to becoming the player he is. That said, Westbrook has a lot of work to do to meet his potential.

Westbrook turned the ball over 3.34 per game this season while averaging 5.3 assists. That’s a 1.59 Assist-to-turnover ratio. Not very impressive for a point guard, especially when you consider that usually at least one of those assists he averaged each game was awarded to him when he hit Durant coming off a screen for an open jumper. You and I could do that. Westbrook can handle the ball adequately for his position, but watch him compared to other quality point guards in the NBA. He doesn’t do a good job of keeping his dribble alive when he gets into the paint the way the top point guards do. If he had a better feel for the game and handle he would do that more. Westbrook also shot less than 40% percent from the field and only 27% from beyond the arc. Also not very impressive. Despite those less than impressive numbers Westbrook did have a very good rookie season and will definitely improve next season as he continues to work on his jumper and hopefully his handle. He also needs to learn to play under control a little better. A couple of times during each game he’ll attack the rim and get out of control and have to throw up a wild shot off the backboard. That had a lot to do with his poor shooting percentage as well.

Back to Holiday. He only shot 29% from beyond the arc, he actually shot 45% from the field. If a player has good form on his jumper he’s likely to improve if he practices. Again, this is speaking to Holiday’s potential.

Also, you must have been one of the people who thought picking Rajon Rondo in the lottery would have been too high given his production in college. Look at his numbers from his freshman year in college; they’re not that different and he wasn’t playing out of position. Don’t get hung up on production in college or you’ll wind up picking players who had great college careers like JJ Reddick, Adam Morrison, and Shelden Williams in the lottery, and not great pros.

Twinkie defense

CC I actually remember watching the Olympics USA vs. Spain and commenting on the game, which you were doing too – you didn’t like Rubio already then. You seem to have soured on him in advance – just too much hype huh, so you’re playing the contrarian role.

You should spend some time watching him, leave aside the hype and I think you will like his game.

ColoradoChris

Get off Brooks. And Fitz is like any play by play guy. If you are not a big name, dont speak against the company or you will need to find new work.

What if Thabeet slips into our hands? Would you guys go for that?

I would rather overpay Andre Miller to come to Oakland than pick a PG in the draft. All the good players we draft usually leave after 2 or 3 years but we could sign Andre Miller to 6 years.

Do you really think the 76ers are more talented than the Warriors? I think its the fact they have a point guard to give direction. That is what the Warriors need. Could of gotten Chauncy last year, will settle for Miller this year.

Twinkie defense

If Thabeet slips to #7 the Warriors ought to trade him – should be able to get good value there.

In six years Andre Miller will be 40 years old. Already Philly does not seem too keen on keeping him, and he’s been traded what, like 3-4 times?

Drafting a PG – Timmy Hardaway – has turned out better than acquiring a vet – Mookie Blaylock, Mark Price, B.J. Armstrong – most of the time. Really glad Gilbert Arenas did not accept the Warriors’ $100 mil. At least Baron was still young when the Warriors got him.

Getting Kidd, Nash, or (third choice) Andre Miller would be a good move for the Warriors, as long as they don’t come too long, too expensive. Then why not put a Lawson or Flynn behind them for a year or two? The problem is, if these guys go short and cheap they’re going to go somewhere else most likely.

GSWFan24, leaving aside the decision to start Collison at PG, why is it a problem that Holiday struggled at the 2? We’d be drafting him to play point on offense. Or did he also struggle defensively guarding other 2s? Obviously, he would be called upon to do so if paired with Monte, so I could see that being a problem.

GSWFan24

Stan-
“Take it from someone who’s been to nearly every home UCLA game the last two years and caught nearly every other game on television; Holiday’s going to be a good pro”.

This tells me you are a complete “HOMER” when it comes to UCLA Basketball…your supposed to have an objective opinion when evaluating talent.

Then you go on to state every flaw Westbrook has in his game…the same guy who just had a wonderful rookie year…what Westbrook has to do with Holiday that would need you to type two paragraphs is beyond me???? Hell A.I was a turnover machine his rookie year…

Then you go on to state how succesful college players make terrible pros (name dropped Adam Morrison, JJ Riddick)? lol Genius

All I said was Holiday did not produce in college, your “HOMER ass” thinks the guy was a “Diaper Dandy” cause you attended every practice and game he’s ever played, probably read every program media guide too huh? Your drinking the Kool Aid STAN!!

In closing, I think we’re both DUBS fans so I “come in peace”. If your correct on Holiday, that would be great too, I just think there are 4 other pg’s that are superior to him

Stan

Lol, you’re funny GSW24.

Do you realize that you contradict yourself when you write “This tells me you are a complete “HOMER” when it comes to UCLA Basketball…your supposed to have an objective opinion when evaluating talent.

Then you go on to state every flaw Westbrook has in his game…the same guy who just had a wonderful rookie year”

I’m a “HOMER” and yet I state every flaw in a former UCLA player’s game? Westbrook is only one year removed from being a student at UCLA. He was my favorite player the two seasons he was at UCLA and is my third favorite player in the NBA to watch behind Wade and Ellis. The fact that I pointed out his flaws proves that I am objective in evaluating talent.

You wrote: “I thought it was absurd to say Holiday is a better ball handler and playmaker than Westbrook from OKC. Westbrook was a top rookie this year in the NBA. Holiday struggled in college BBALL. Their is no comparison between the two.”

You also wrote:“what Westbrook has to do with Holiday that would need you to type two paragraphs is beyond me???? Hell A.I was a turnover machine his rookie year…”

Read what you wrote carefully. Do you see the irony in it? It’s ironic that you’re criticizing me for writing about Holiday in comparison to Westbrook when his success during his rookie season doesn’t equate to better ball handling and playmaking than Holiday. Just because he had a good rookie season and Holiday struggled in college doesn’t mean he’s a better ball-handler and is a better playmaker than Holiday. The absence of zone defenses and presence of better outside shooters in the pros allows point guards a lot more room to operate and make plays – to tally assists.

Those paragraphs should have proved to you how much I watched Westbrook (proving I do have some clue as to what I’m talking about) and that I am objective in my analysis.

Holiday had a disappointing season, which I attribute to three factors.
1) He was playing out of position
2) He was playing in a rigid, highly structured offense that limited his freedom to create
3) He was too passive. He never embraced his role as the shooting guard, looking to make plays for others first and shoot second.

If he remains passive in the pros and loses his confidence, he won’t reach his potential and I’ll be wrong about him becoming a good pro.

I may be biased toward UCLA given that I’m a few days away from graduating from there, but I’m no “HOMER”. I think I’ve proved I can be objective. A lot of people were actually down on Holiday during the season because he failed to live up to high expectations. I’ve been one of the few hyping him the entire season despite his struggles.

Kommon Senze

Word from Chad Ford today is that there is some speculation that Curry may not work out for teams above the Knicks #8 position because there’s an attempt by his handlers to ensure he lands in New York. An interesting twist, if true. I don’t think Curry not working out for the Warriors has to do with the Warriors lack of interest.

I buy the Holiday angle, though. His lack of a reliable 3-pt shot and his less than stellar showing at UCLA probably have hurt his stock from the Warrior perspective. I don’t buy the “he’s young and hard-headed” bit that Tim tried in the other post, but I think there may be a lot of reasons why he and the Warriors may never see eye to eye, so to speak.

Ron Redwoods

I can’t see how the relative FAILURES of Holiday + Jennings to DO THINGS…to…say….score 10 ppg…..to….Start ??? to rank in the NCAA top 200 in assists…..to shoot with a decent %…..makes them top 10 stuff. Is the NBA easier now than Italy? Jennings floundered in a league where Kosta Perovic and Jiri Welsch are successful and Jasekavicus is almost a star.

Jrue’s season had less going for it than DeMarcus Nelson had…less than guys listed as MAYBE rd 2. Rubio is getting a bit much hype…but this freshman class? Gimme a break. BJ Mullin has done…WHAT? He’s got less credentials than P O’Bryant had. DeRozean + Evans…decent but are they even starters a year from now? Curry had a damn strong season,Lawson ….only was an MVP of the NCAA tournament. Flynn had a very solid year. Front court, Griffin was easily the top guy but Jordan Hill,Tyler Hansborough and Blair were GOOD…very good.

Very good…should be what you NEED. Raw potential? Show me what’s in a guys head. Vertical leap and wingspan means NOTHING if the guy won’t pay the dues or tries but never quite gets it. You get an Olowokandi,or a Foyle. Sometimes you REALLY reach and you get less than that.

Good and essential point about Jrue being “too passive”…and I think that’s an understatement.

Bobby Sura and Sam Cassell shared backcourt with Ward at Fla St..the official PG (and football QB). Arenas played SG at Ariz. Oscar Robertson was a Forward in college. If Holliday is really all that special…..you CAN’T stop him from being MORE than an “average” guard…which is all he managed to be. Oh…his D is good! Yeah…that might get a guard a look in rd 2.

Jennings can do streetball. Can he do real 5 on 5 with….defenses? He hasn’t yet.

For GSW, if Ellis is NOT a PG…then we have even more excess at SG+SF….about 5-6 guys for SG…and ALL deserve to start. Meanwhile….one major injury at PF or C and we come apart…done…kaput.
Meanwhile….Ellis becomes our Ben Gordon…the undersize SG who compels us to have a big PG…which becomes limiting…and…then Jack moves back to SF…where he lacks an inside game and makes Maggette more redundant? Morrow and Azubuike are young, athletic, our best pure shooters and get stuck as 3rd string? That won’t go well.

I guess the upside of Jennings would be that he’s off in the D Leaguer and Ellis + Watson do the job. Then it’s on Nellie to distribute minutes wisely.

Might happen.

I hope we do a few slick trades..end up with Hansborough + Lawson ( or Curry) That works. Pretty much is a sure thing. No need for excuses.

Ron Redwoods

A note on the SG>PG converts…last time we saw Monta….42 pt,9 asst,9 reb….and however you slice that..that’s some decent PG results. CJ Watson had a fine 38 pt 9 sst game in the late season, followed with a career high 12 asst against Nash and the Suns.