I actually feel a little sorry for conservatives, right now. They're deeply scared. Talk radio hosts and campaign ads have been telling them for weeks that the man we just elected president is a Socialist terrorist who will destroy our economy, take away all of our guns, and allow us to be nuked by Iran. They're afraid for their country right now. They also feel trapped. As liberals, if we're feeling panicky about the state of the nation, we can always fantasize about emigrating to Canada or any number of other liberal democracies. Conservatives have no such safety valve; I mean, where would they go that's more conservative?

A lot of them are also feeling a sense of shock. They really thought they would win. Right-wing news outlets were talking up McCain's chances of victory, and so was McCain himself. People whose news came only from those sources didn't see this one coming.

It will take them a while to realize that Obama isn't a tenth as radical as they've been led to believe. You're going to see a lot of unhinged, intolerant ranting from the right for the next couple of weeks. It's best to pay it no mind. These people are venting because they're afraid of the imaginary monster the right-wing pundits have constructed and labeled with a nametag that says "Obama." I'm sure there will always be a strong, seething anger, like was directed at Clinton, because conservatives fundamentally believe that Democrats have no legitimate claim to power. The current level of venom, however, is not likely to last.

Seagull, why should we pity used asswipes? At all? They've spent the last eight years supporting a complete fuckwit as he destroyed the infrastructure of the U.S., butchered our civil rights, violated our privacy, wrecked the environment, committed mass murder, and allowed by his own inaction a bunch of assholes with boxcutters to fly two jetliners into the World Trade Center.

No, we should not pity regressives. We should watch them flail uselessly and scream in mortal terror of an Obama administration. Then when the U.S. doesn't come to an end and they realize just how profoundly stupid they've been, we can point at them and collectely laugh our asses off.

Until they realize just how wrong they and their party have been on nearly everything, until they show some goddamn sorrow and remorse at what they've inflicted on us all, regressives can piss off.

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Panda: Well, thinking about stress, I think it'd be at the highest right about then.Marsillio: Yep.Marsillio: Getting his ass handed to him.Marsillio: He gets all pissy when he starts being questioned.Marsillio: Even losing his temper would be great.Marsillio: Doing so on live national television would be impossible even for our corporate media to cover up.Panda: "It appears Obama slipped something into McCain's drink before the debate began..."Marsillio: hahahaPanda: Fox News Pundit: "...see, just look at his cup..." *Master Hand has been skillfully photoshopped in, dropping some tablets into McCain's cup just before he drinks it*Marsillio: XDDDMarsillio: No no, Crazy Hand!Marsillio: Because he's CARAAAAZEEEE!Panda Bear: XD

I agree mostly with Marsillio. I feel no sympathy at all for the conservatives; indeed, I feel a strong sense of delight. The bastards have had this coming a long damn time.

As for the conservatives having no place to escape to, it's not because there's nowhere more conservative. There are plenty of places. Poland, for instance, is one of the most conservative countries in Europe right now; it is one of the most devoutly religious countries in Europe at present with an 89% Roman Catholic majority, they've already managed to ban abortion, and there is no legal recognition of same-sex couples there either (and with the current conservative government, that looks very unlikely to change).

No, the real reason conservatives feel trapped with nowhere to run to is because they've spent years perfecting the delusion that there is nowhere on Earth that can possibly be better than the United States. Their twisted sense of patriotism, that America is The Greatest Country in the WorldTM, is what has brought them here. They've spent so long spouting that bullshit that they believe it, and if the Greatest Country in the WorldTM can fall to a black-anti-American-radical-socialist-liberal-terrorist-sympathiser like Obama, then what hope is there anywhere else?

Personally, I doubt the venom will drop as low as Seagull expects. In fact, it may only get worse. I imagine we'll be seeing an influx of disgruntled conservatives to this forum in due course too.

Oh yes, I'm writhing in pain and agony, as I cry out "Why has America abandoned me?" as I make my plans to move to Vanuatu and live there while we at least have a Democrat controlled White House AND Congress. The tears that I shed could fill a lake if I could shed tears.

Seriously, though, while I am disappointed that Obama was elected, and I am nervous that he has, for all tense and purposes, a rubber stamp Congress, I'll continue to live life thankful that we have a stable change in government, unlike most other governments where change only happens through Molotov cocktails and machine guns. I'll continue to live in this great country of ours and make the best of what I have while building for a better tomorrow.

First. before we go any further, lets get our terminology straight here. Most of you are talking about the 30% of the population that are Neoconservatives (the number comes the polls that still approve of President Bush jr), not Conservatives. A good many of who voted with us to get Obama elected.

Now the 16ish percent the voted for McCain that art Necons believed the talk radio and fox that necons and conservatives are the same are the ones that still have to wake up.

As for the conservatives having no place to escape to, it's not because there's nowhere more conservative. There are plenty of places. Poland, for instance, is one of the most conservative countries in Europe right now; it is one of the most devoutly religious countries in Europe at present with an 89% Roman Catholic majority, they've already managed to ban abortion, and there is no legal recognition of same-sex couples there either (and with the current conservative government, that looks very unlikely to change).

You forgetting one big thing here the Necon base comes from Evangelical Protestant base that considers Roman Catholic not to be Christian at all.

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It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the dew of the mountain that thoughts acquire speed; the hands acquire shakes; the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.Economic Left/Right: -7.38 | Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.79 This message is encoded with ROT26. Decoding is punishable by law under the DMCA.Rogue's WeyrRogue's Rabblings

But just so you're aware, I accept Obama as my legitimately elected representative to the world--starting next January. The campaign is over; he won. I believe in democracy even when my party doesn't win. Some liberals seem to have a different view on that than I do, but I might be (and I hope I am) wrong about that.

It falls to the next three years for us to judge how well he does. You can expect many to all of the problems he encounters to be blamed on the Bush administration (both of them, perhaps), and frequent references to Reagan as well. Expect praise for the current legislature even when their approval ratings dip into the single digits. Expect corrupt congressmen and senators to continue to be reelected because they tell you what they want to hear, on both sides of the party aisle.

And you can also realize that conservatives don't believe that America is the greatest country on earth because of its government. Heck no. If we are the greatest, and I believe that we are, then it is because of our people--both liberal and conservative--who make it so.

If the people of America choose to be great, they will be so in spite of their government. If they choose to be (for lack of a better word) wicked, then no government can possibly stop them. Obama is not America. Nor are Pelosi or Reid. They do not control the country; they merely take a whole lot of its money and spend it, for the most part unwisely.

I'm willing to accept that Obama could be a great president. Only time will tell.

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Economic Left/Right: -1.50Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.62

Mormons for Romney kind of sounds like it might be a palindrome, but it isn't.

Conservatives aren't scared. NeoCons are. Conservatism, or the part of it that aligns more closely to my part of the spectrum, was resigned to this fate long before ballots were cast. We don't like the direction the country is going or is likely to go under the current state of leadership with either party.

As others have mentioned, it's best to distinguish conservatism from the NeoCons (epitomized by Rush & Hannity). Mixing the terms is only going to further misconceptions and muddy discourse.

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

I have to say that I'm a little annoyed at how you're pretty much lumping all conservatives together to badmouth and insult. It just comes off as childish.

"Annoyed" doesn't even begin to describe my feelings towards what has been allowed to transpire at the whim of conservatives over the last eight years. And I do lump in other conservatives besides the neocons, because they still went and voted for Bush. Twice. I'll excuse the first time, but the second time I will not forgive.

I have to say that I'm a little annoyed at how you're pretty much lumping all conservatives together to badmouth and insult. It just comes off as childish.

Oh, yes. Childish indeed. Not at all like the way you badmouthed every candidate who wasn't Bob Barr.

Are you aware how many neocons outnumber Goldwater conservatives in Washington these days?

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

I have to say that I'm a little annoyed at how you're pretty much lumping all conservatives together to badmouth and insult. It just comes off as childish.

"Annoyed" doesn't even begin to describe my feelings towards what has been allowed to transpire at the whim of conservatives over the last eight years. And I do lump in other conservatives besides the neocons, because they still went and voted for Bush. Twice. I'll excuse the first time, but the second time I will not forgive.

You've never been offered the Devil's choice, have you?

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"If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind?" — Frederic Bastiat - from The Law

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

"Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all." - Frederic Bastiat - The Law

I have to say that I'm a little annoyed at how you're pretty much lumping all conservatives together to badmouth and insult. It just comes off as childish.

"Annoyed" doesn't even begin to describe my feelings towards what has been allowed to transpire at the whim of conservatives over the last eight years. And I do lump in other conservatives besides the neocons, because they still went and voted for Bush. Twice. I'll excuse the first time, but the second time I will not forgive.

You've never been offered the Devil's choice, have you?

I can't speak for Wodan, but I'm not even aware of what choice you're referring to. "Lesser of two evils", perhaps?

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And if i catch you comin' back my wayI'm gonna serve it to youAnd that ain't what you want to hearBut that's what I'll do -- "Seven Nation Army", The White Stripes

Assuming Medivh is correct, and conservatives considered Bush the "lesser of two evils", it doesn't make me any more sympathetic. By voting for him, they gave their stamp of approval to everything he had done and was going to continue doing. How precisely four more years of an unjust, illegal war, crushing civil liberties, and tearing the constitution to pieces constitutes the less of two evils, however, is beyond me, particularly when Kerry was nowhere near as liberal as Obama. Unless, perhaps, it's more than just the neoconservatives who believe in those things?