Format shifting, low damages put Canada on IP watch list

To my Canadian brothers and sisters just north of me (yeah, I am an American), if our corrupt government comes to you with any of this crap be sure to tell them to go f' themselves. The media greed mongers have already ruined the American government and pissed on the Constitution, it is too late for us and our unlimited limited copyright term increases and absurd copyright restrictions. Be sure to save yourselves.

-Yet another American who just wants to world to know that we aren't all represented by our paid and bought for government or the media pigs.

Originally posted by Baldr:I can't speak for many other industries except for the Video Game industry. I know most of the profits from games go straight back into the development of new games. Piracy takes out around 17% of profits for large studios and at least reported triple that amount for independent game studios profits. Video game developers are among the most under paid professionals in the creative industry and some of the most hard working especially during crunch cycles.

I can say with 97% accuracy that 63% of percentages said on the internet are unsupportable 43% of the time and come from some crap study 78% of the time.

Trying to figure out how much piracy hurts sales is always going to be a guessing game.

Also, going from Blizzard/Activision's financial statements, they've made over $400m on $2.7b of revenues for the first 9 months of the year, with a huge chunk of their expenses dedicated to marketing, distribution and "general and administrative". Profits will probably go to shareholders rather than being pumped back into game development and giving game developers better wages, that's what companies do.

Plus every creative person is the most underpaid person on the planet, depending on which creative person you ask. My girlfriend is a graphics artist, actually getting paid is harder than anything else.

quote:

Pirates justify they are only taking from greedy corporations, which I know is an outright lie, especially in the game industry. Games are going online and cloud based, and this is just the beginning, so I'm not to worry about the industry and DRM is just a phase.

Going "we keep the software you paid for on our servers so you can only use it exactly how we say" isn't removing DRM, it's putting in the worst DRM available. At least in Canada if I buy a game and want to crack it so I can play it how I want, I'm not going to be hounded to death for doing so.

I can't believe this farce of an organization is actually trying to tell us how to run our government.Music and movie piracy does not harm those industries no matter how you slice it. People who pirate probably weren't going to see the movie/buy the cd anyway. Also, our industries grow by a larger percentage than theirs every year.

The RIAA/MPAA was this close... to getting a DCMA in Canada. Then the prime minister got worried about his own skin and prorogued parliament, essentially cancelling all progress on any bills so far and wiping the slate clean for a March restart. This means the process will start all over again, and it will be months to years before a low-priority issue like this becomes a law. With the threat of another election soon, it's also possible that any new bill will be given a CTL-ALT-DEL again in less than a year.

This has been going on for over 5 years now. The RIAA/MPAA have been buying politicians of both parties, to no avail. Not only do they not deliver, but some actually get tossed out by the electorate. Thanks to his smooth move on prorogation, our beloved prime minister may join that line shortly.

I suspect this recent brief is an effort to get the congress to put pressure on Canada to stand and deliver.

The content tax on blank media was NEVER touted as being for people to make their own personal copies. It was always the argument that "people make copies for their friends, this is a way of getting some money for starving artists out of that".

Originally posted by nightwing2000:The RIAA/MPAA was this close... to getting a DCMA in Canada. Then the prime minister got worried about his own skin and prorogued parliament, essentially cancelling all progress on any bills so far and wiping the slate clean for a March restart. This means the process will start all over again, and it will be months to years before a low-priority issue like this becomes a law. With the threat of another election soon, it's also possible that any new bill will be given a CTL-ALT-DEL again in less than a year.

This is why I personally was quite happy about him proroguing. This and that stupid crime bill that'd make it major jailtime for possessing 5 marijuana plants.

"Canadians currently pay levies for things like blank CDs. What these "private copy" levies cover has been a subject of intense dispute, but IIPA demands that Canadian law be changed to make clear that "the [copying] exception applies only to copies of noninfringing recordings owned by the person who makes the copies."

Silly question:

If the law is going to apply only to non-infringing copies, then what are the levies paying for? By definition, if it's a non-infringing copy, nobody needs to be compensated for it. The levies exist on the presumption that anyone (or, more accurately, *everyone*) buying a blank CD is going to use it to make an unauthorized copy of something. The compensation to the copyright holders is built into the system.

So sad for you, RIAA: you fought hard to get these costs tacked onto blank media and treat everyone in Canada as if they had presumptively violated a copyright. You got your pound of flesh. Now choke on it.

Originally posted by Smeegy:People who pirate probably weren't going to see the movie/buy the cd anyway.

You don't know that and it was obviously of value to them if they took the time to download it.

Would they buy every album that they downloaded? No, but it is unreasonable to believe the opposite which is that they would have bought nothing.

When I was in college I saw people who drove BMWs pirating music and movies like crazy. They could obviously afford to buy the media but chose not to. They same goes for pc gaming. I knew quite a few people that would spend a grand on a gaming pc without blinking and then pirate the games.

Songs on itunes and RedBox movies are a buck, I really don't feel sorry for any cheapskates that get fined. Laws should exist in the favor of business owners and content producers, not scumbags who want to skip out on the bill.

It has become "tech hip" to decry the organizations like the RIAA but that doesn't justify supporting cheapskates who don't want to support the people who work all day creating media that we enjoy. Eliminating copyright law would eliminate the paychecks of millions of independent artists and programmers. That would be far worse than anything the RIAA has done.

Originally posted by robrob:Trying to figure out how much piracy hurts sales is always going to be a guessing game.

Also, going from Blizzard/Activision's financial statements, they've made over $400m on $2.7b of revenues for the first 9 months of the year, with a huge chunk of their expenses dedicated to marketing, distribution and "general and administrative". Profits will probably go to shareholders rather than being pumped back into game development and giving game developers better wages, that's what companies do.

MMO companies have a natural insulation against piracy through server side processing so their profits really say nothing about how piracy affects the software industry.

The products that are vulnerable to piracy are the ones that can be easily duplicated like music, movies and software that doesn't require a server connection or isn't securely tied to hardware.

There's been a significant disinvestment in high-end single player pc games like Crysis in the last 5 years and piracy is the main factor. We've already seen in parts of Asia where once the piracy rate gets high enough in a market the producers will leave. Strong copyright laws are needed to protect intellectual property development that otherwise wouldn't exist due to the ease of duplication.

No one wants to spend 3 years working on an auto part patent if it means some big company like Ford can just take it without payment. Copyright laws exist for good reason which is why they have wide support among economists. Certain types of intellectual property will not be developed without them. Investors will just take their capital and put it elsewhere.

These are sad days for America, the government should just put up a great big "For Sale" sign. The rich get richer at the expense of the middle class and the poor are just shit outa luck. I am ashamed of our government, ashamed or our politicians, ashamed of the executives on wall street. "Greed is good" Seriously? does no one care about improving the quality of life for humanity? When you're on your deathbed and you look back at your life what contributions will you have made to the world? Will your money comfort you then? When the ghost of your anemic conscience pricks, will you regret? Life could be so much better for so many if we just weren't so greedy.

I've said it before and I will keep saying it, these companies don't care about piracy, they only care about control, and the American government is giving it to them. Corporations beholden to shareholders have no morals, no conscience, no desire to advance mankind, they only care about money.

It is the digital age and the reproduction and distribution costs have become almost non-existent but these greedy bastards want to keep charging the same amount so they can make even more money? I hope for a future where artists produce their own music and developers govern themselves free from the interference of parasitic publishers. I want to pay them, the creators, not the bean counters and money shufflers.

If you make a game/movie/music your profits go to the publisher, the license holder(console maker/blu-ray/DVD/etc), the distribution channel, and then the reseller. All these parasites contribute NOTHING to the product yet they gain the lions share of the profit? to hell with all these leeches.

Canada has the right idea for now, I hope they stick to it because it is certainly too late for us, American politics now come with corporate sponsors and those sponsors want your money.

"In regard to the watch list, Canada does not recognize the 301 watch list process. It basically lacks reliable and objective analysis. It's driven entirely by US industry. We have repeatedly raised this issue of the lack of objective analysis in the 301 watch list process with our US counterparts."

unDear IIPA,

Shove it.

Without Respect,Canada

I don't blame the American people, but damn, your government and supreme court have been making some really terrible decisions lately. Just keep in mind, foreign countries are sovereign entities. You don't get to make our laws, as much as your corporations want to.

/Proud Canadian

P.S.: Now if I could just get a nice high resolution version of that Canadian Pirate Flag; would make a great T-shirt

Originally posted by Smeegy:People who pirate probably weren't going to see the movie/buy the cd anyway.

You don't know that and it was obviously of value to them if they took the time to download it.

Would they buy every album that they downloaded? No, but it is unreasonable to believe the opposite which is that they would have bought nothing.

When I was in college I saw people who drove BMWs pirating music and movies like crazy. They could obviously afford to buy the media but chose not to. They same goes for pc gaming. I knew quite a few people that would spend a grand on a gaming pc without blinking and then pirate the games.

Songs on itunes and RedBox movies are a buck, I really don't feel sorry for any cheapskates that get fined. Laws should exist in the favor of business owners and content producers, not scumbags who want to skip out on the bill.

It has become "tech hip" to decry the organizations like the RIAA but that doesn't justify supporting cheapskates who don't want to support the people who work all day creating media that we enjoy. Eliminating copyright law would eliminate the paychecks of millions of independent artists and programmers. That would be far worse than anything the RIAA has done.

Personally, I don't know if it's of value until I download it and watch it or listen to it.

I don't pirate video games because I respect the programmers. Most studios aren't trying to profit from a video game that's 15+ years old. Musicians on the other hand....

As a previous writer pointed out, http://www.law.duke.edu/cspd/publicdomainday/pre1976 copyrightwas 28 years with an extension for another 28 if the artist so wished, for a total of 56 years. The industry is making sure that anyone who grew up with new music they liked they will not be able to download it during their life time for free. Example look at all the old music that Time Warner is peddling to the over fifty's crowd called Memories. All late fifties and early sixties. If they wouldn't have extended the copyright, within 10 years all the early rock songs would have been in the public's domain, free for downloading. Piracy is a smoke screen, keep everyone focused on a non issue while they change the copyright laws for total control. Think global that's a hell of a lot of money to still be made by these greedy bastards, I have no guilt what so ever of downloading what I consider my legacy and right which was taken away from me by some under fifty jerk off who can't see past his dick and his next paycheck. Theirs no one here who can't possibly believe that 56 years isn't long enough for a return on their artistic talent. Just ask the old timers who are doing the retro comeback how much their getting for any appearances. If the industry could get away with it they would charge them for singing their own songs in public.

The RIAA, MPAA, and the BSA are LEECHES in our society. They can form parent organizations all day long but their lobbying is against the interest of US Citizens, the USA, and obviously the foreign countries they bully.

Funny thing about the US. Their restrictions on shared information through DRM, copy write and patent laws has left the country at the mercy of patent trolls, copy write restrictions on intellectual property, and restrictive uses by others on your very own property. Universities are encouraged to not share new discoveries for fear of monetary loss. Artists and creative programs are restricted under the guise of copy write. Software programs are becoming harder to create without violating some ones patent . This ultimately restricts technological advancements that will become more evident as the newest and greatest will be designed somewhere else. The RIAA and the MPPA are dinosaurs of the past, refusing to except the new business opportunities of the internet. They will do whatever they think serves their need , even strong arming the US government to carry out their agenda. They will lose this one as the whole US economy is waining under this restrictive mentality.

Living in Canada (in a suburb of Toronto, to be more precise), I can understand why we would be put on this list.

No one in this country has been prosecuted in any way for illegal filesharing.

Illegal copies of DVDs, games, etc. are sold openly (commercially, for profit) in some places. (Police do - rarely - "crack down" on some of these places.. but it happens so rarely, and the punishment so impotent that it is not in any way a deterrent for these criminals to stop their activity..)

Not to say I agree completely with the IIPA (I absolutely don't on some things..), but Canada absolutely does need to enforce our laws more vigorously (and change the law where appropriate) to prevent and discourage these illegal activities.

Music and movie piracy does not harm those industries no matter how you slice it.

Is it really necessary to indulge in such hyperbolic happy talk? Quantifying how much piracy hurts those industries is always going to be debatable, but claiming it has no effect whatsoever is utter and zealous bullshit.

As a Canadian, I have no desire to go to the American way of life, which is to be controlled by industry. Americans might smarten up one day to this corporate control(which with new legislation in the U.S., is only getting stronger). I really hope they do. I for one will not bend to these ridiculous ideas brought forth by American industry.

Want to know why I don't feel bad about pirating?1. I subscribe to satellite radio which pays royalties.2. The blank media I purchase pays royalties.3. I go to the movie theater frequently4. I rent movies from blockbuster frequently.5. MTV Cribs.

"Not to say I agree completely with the IIPA (I absolutely don't on some things..), but Canada absolutely does need to enforce our laws more vigorously (and change the law where appropriate) to prevent and discourage these illegal activities." Transplanted American. You are an Idiot or a troll(both the same), our laws do work for us and are being used everyday by the authorities.You are an Idiot or a troll(both the same) who watches to much Fox News. If our law enforcement doesn't do what Fox news says Canada should be doing its because we are not breaking any laws. If you would like to live in a country that has those kind of laws and don't like ours then move the F**K down there where you can enjoy those kind of laws, and then feel smug about it, and then you can piss on the rest of the world because they don't have the same shitty laws as America and if you go some where in the rest of the world and they spit on you, you'll know why.First of all I don't give a F**k about America and their laws. Their ideas are bankrupt, because they are so egotistical, narcissistic, pig headed, selfish, arrogant, self centered, conceited, haughty, supercilious self seeking, egocentric, altruistic, self-important, vain, smug , stuck-up, superior, high and mighty, verbose, pompous, that's just off the top of my head. They can't tell you what good their doing now so they keep rehashing about what they did fifty years ago or earlier.

I'm a Canadian. I enjoy legally-purchased music and movies whenever possible. I want to support my favourite artists and writers, but I don't want to support their grandchildren. The statistics spouted by the RRIA and others are largely false, as statistics tend to be. ACTA is just plain scary, and I hope it goes down the toilet. The copyright laws of the US are idiotic, and I hope Canada holds the line against this pressure to change. This is one person's opinion!

And in case anyone is still reading this thread: Canada now has a Pirate Party. If there was every a time to be a single-issue voter, it will be some time in the next few election cycles. Go ahead and sign up, even if you won't stay forever. Making public how you plan to vote tends to effect more policy change than your actual vote does.

Keep your friends/family up to speed on this stuff, too. I'd hate to see some (more) goofy laws slip by under a veil of ignorance. I kind of like free speech, privacy, and the open exchange of ideas.

Originally posted by robrob:[QUOTE]Canadians currently pay levies for things like blank CDs. What these "private copy" levies cover ...QUOTE]

...You shit in your own beds and now you're whining about shitting in your own beds. Welcome to Canada, where the entire country doesn't roll over for a pissy corporation (it's a nice, relaxing improvement over Australia, where content is 6 months late and you will potentially be reamed under US style laws if you pirate it)

+1I realy wish our (I'm Australian) government would tell the US government to go fuck itself. No offence to the Americans out there (unless you're a senator or something).

"I really wish our (I'm Australian) government would tell the US government to go fuck itself. No offense to the Americans out there (unless you're a senator or something)."

Why are you being so nice, its the Americans that VOTE these idiot, corrupt officials into office. Its time to stop being so accommodating, were passed that stage. Americans have to start taking responsibility for their actions and what is happening in their country. Only they can put a stop to this. The sooner we quit sticking up for their incompetence, the sooner the Americans will hopefully see the light. I hear a lot of talk from them but no action. Its like they bitch bitch bitch and have been taught that that is all they can do and give each other a pat on the back for having the First Amendment right to be able to do so, forgetting that half the world has that right. Don't feel sorry for the Americans, PITY them. Their digging their own graves and trying to take as many as they can with them. Their EGO says that whats good for them must be good for everyone else in the world.