Why is it that some of us feel the need to defend HipHop culture right or wrong?

It would appear to me that every culture has it's imperfections, but not hiphop. Even American so-called culture and society has attempted to deal with it's imperfections however unsucessfully or half-heartedly. I have never seen HipHoppers honestly and fearlessly assess and critique hiphop. That is what, it seems, is missing to me in this picture, despite all of the posturing and glowering in HipHop - true fealessness and intelligence to challenge what is clearly WRONG like two left feet in the culture.

I see no HipHoppers challenging, not only the terrible stripper/vid vixen imagery in HipHop, but the crazy nihilistic imagery of prison and street life that comes across like a subliminal self-fulfilling prophecy. It is like leading our children off to their predestined slaughter/imprisonment. The well-worn excuse for constantly remaking variations on this insidious theme is that this is what the hiphoppers see, and thus are keeping it real. REALLY! Well, change the image man! That is why you've got an imagination. There is no need to remain stuck on a theme of dumb, stupid, and insane.

I see no rappers actually challenging the petty materialism/capitalism in HipHop. Making Paper is EVERYTHING and the ONLY thing in HipHop, and I've heard many a misguided young person talk about how revolutionary it is for Black people to make lots of the White Man's money. There is nothing new nor particularly revolutionary about that. What are they doing with their truck-loads of money beyond giving it right back to the White Man? Who among rappers and hiphoppers acutally challenges this un-revolutionary behaviour?

In fact, few Black folks in the world today are LESS revolutionary than the people of this culture, which doesnt even feel the need to do any self-examination. No wonder nothing changes in the culture. It is as Nihilistic as it was 10-15 years ago, and getting worse.

I see no HipHoppers challenging, not only the terrible stripper/vid vixen imagery in HipHop, but the crazy nihilistic imagery of prison and street life that comes across like a subliminal self-fulfilling prophecy. It is like leading our children off to their predestined slaughter/imprisonment.

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I understand your concern, but you need to seriously broaden your horizons if you think hip hop is all negative. When you align your views with those European conservatives, chances are great that your outlook is wrong when later viewed from an Afrikan center. Sure, there are a multitude of negatives in hip hop, but your inability elucidate on the positives is irresponsible and misleading. The earlier poster gave you positive examples, so me doing so would be reductant.

Common, Taleb Kweli, The Roots, Dead Prez, KRS1, P.E. There also plenty of other rappers that don't expouse materalism, and sexists lyrics. People just don't acknowledge or listen to them.

Soo, I can understand frustration and disappointment in the pop rap lyrics, its not fair to label all rappers, and say that no rappers are willing to stand up for what's right and what's wrong.

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"Common, Taleb Kweli, The Roots, Dead Prez, KRS1, P.E." is that your idea of "plenty"???? PLEEEEZE, man... BTW, brother, I aint THAT old KRS1 and Public Enemy are from my generation, and they don't make music for public consumption anymore. Dead Prez and the ROOTS??? When were they last popular, brother???? This is 2007, man, and HipHop is 30-some odd years of age. If that is all you could come up with over that span of time, then I am not impressed at all. I could name many more, and that still would not be impressed with my own list.

Here's the deal brother JGYKnowledge. No genre touted itself as much a revolutionary "CNN for Black Youth" like Hiphop did(See Chuck D.), and failed to deliver the substance behind the bombast. It didn't have to do all that, but it did, and because it did, I've got a right to ask What the hell happened? I've got a right not to hear B.S. excuses, as well, from a people who want to be taken seriously. This is the same kinda nonsense George Bush pulls when you ask him about them weapon of mass destruction - he starts to spin, and make all kinds of wild assed excuses. He's got a lot in common with the HipHop generation in that regard.

Again, you never pointed out those in HipHop who are speaking out against some of the more nihilistic aspects of the culture, itself. Many in the genre have spoken out about stuff that happens outside the culture itself("Bush Don't Love Black People.!"), but what of what goes on underneath their noses, and right inside their videos or the videos of others? Recently, I heard John Legend say that there's nothing worth talking about hiphop and R&b these days, so that is why he lives in a world of the older music. I admit that I was impressed with that, but beyond John Legend, I don't hear anybody saying or doing anything but going along to get along.

I understand your concern, but you need to seriously broaden your horizons if you think hip hop is all negative. When you align your views with those European conservatives, chances are great that your outlook is wrong when later viewed from an Afrikan center. Sure, there are a multitude of negatives in hip hop, but your inability elucidate on the positives is irresponsible and misleading. The earlier poster gave you positive examples, so me doing so would be reductant.

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Chucky, you fell into the same trap as JGY. You named some guys who are old and washed up in rap, and whose name and words mean nothing to the present generation - nothing! Truth of that is in their influence.

Again, read the substance of what I said. I said there are none of these - including those you mentioned - calling their own to task for what they do. They do not, for all that it is worth, want to be ostracized, and put out of the inner-circle of popularity. So they go along to get along. In other words, brother, there is no internal critique going on as you had during the Civil Rights Movement. As bad as it seemed to have Blacks critiquing one another in public like that, it served the overall good for leaders to know that they were under scrutiny from their community, as well as other leadership. Hiphoppers are afraid to do that unless they're dissing one another to sell records.

BTW, I have been African-centered in my approach Lo-o-o-o-ong before there was such phrase brother.

Common, Taleb Kweli, The Roots, Dead Prez, KRS1, P.E. There also plenty of other rappers that don't expouse materalism, and sexists lyrics. People just don't acknowledge or listen to them.

Soo, I can understand frustration and disappointment in the pop rap lyrics, its not fair to label all rappers, and say that no rappers are willing to stand up for what's right and what's wrong.

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And that's fine. We can agree there is positive rap. But what about the mysogynistic, materialistic, kill em all :flamet: stuff? Why arent more of you talking against that? Has keeping it real gone mad?

" ...ultimately, the man you sleep with is a direct reflection of your character. "

....some women spend more time thinking on what outfit they will wear to the club, than thinking about who is the best man to be father to their children....

"Common, Taleb Kweli, The Roots, Dead Prez, KRS1, P.E." is that your idea of "plenty"???? PLEEEEZE, man... BTW, brother, I aint THAT old KRS1 and Public Enemy are from my generation, and they don't make music for public consumption anymore. Dead Prez and the ROOTS??? When were they last popular, brother???? This is 2007, man, and HipHop is 30-some odd years of age. If that is all you could come up with over that span of time, then I am not impressed at all. I could name many more, and that still would not be impressed with my own list.

Here's the deal brother JGYKnowledge. No genre touted itself as much a revolutionary "CNN for Black Youth" like Hiphop did(See Chuck D.), and failed to deliver the substance behind the bombast. It didn't have to do all that, but it did, and because it did, I've got a right to ask What the hell happened? I've got a right not to hear B.S. excuses, as well, from a people who want to be taken seriously. This is the same kinda nonsense George Bush pulls when you ask him about them weapon of mass destruction - he starts to spin, and make all kinds of wild assed excuses. He's got a lot in common with the HipHop generation in that regard.

Again, you never pointed out those in HipHop who are speaking out against some of the more nihilistic aspects of the culture, itself. Many in the genre have spoken out about stuff that happens outside the culture itself("Bush Don't Love Black People.!"), but what of what goes on underneath their noses, and right inside their videos or the videos of others? Recently, I heard John Legend say that there's nothing worth talking about hiphop and R&b these days, so that is why he lives in a world of the older music. I admit that I was impressed with that, but beyond John Legend, I don't hear anybody saying or doing anything but going along to get along.

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I guess I live under a rock........

The names that I mentioned are some of the artists that I personally listen to. I can't be held liable for what you or anybody else listens to. POPularity of a rapper's music doesn't matter to me, because I listen to what appeals to me. Rap music is POP music. POP music is driven by what the records companies promote in hopes to keeping their cash flow coming in. They're going to promote what sells......sex, drugs, and violence. That's what Americans consume, Black and White.

You don't have to agree with me, but it seems that you will only believe what you want to believe. Why do we expect entertainers to promote Blackness when their goal is to make money?

And that's fine. We can agree there is positive rap. But what about the mysogynistic, materialistic, kill em all :flamet: stuff? Why arent more of you talking against that? Has keeping it real gone mad?

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Why would I waste my time with rappers that make mysogynistic, materialistic, and kill 'em all music? It seems some Black people think that we can force people to make different types of music. Why do ALL Black people have to answer for a few? If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't listen to it, just show no support for it at all. What's soo hard about that?

Why would I waste my time with rappers that make mysogynistic, materialistic, and kill 'em all music? It seems some Black people think that we can force people to make different types of music. Why do ALL Black people have to answer for a few? If you don't like it, don't buy it, don't listen to it, just show no support for it at all. What's soo hard about that?

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The powers that be and the community would have not allowed this type of "music" air play. Dont be suprised if days of yore come back real soon. It's only so many nappy headed ho's and bi***es you can call sisters before they demand a difference.

" ...ultimately, the man you sleep with is a direct reflection of your character. "

....some women spend more time thinking on what outfit they will wear to the club, than thinking about who is the best man to be father to their children....

The names that I mentioned are some of the artists that I personally listen to. I can't be held liable for what you or anybody else listens to. POPularity of a rapper's music doesn't matter to me, because I listen to what appeals to me. Rap music is POP music. POP music is driven by what the records companies promote in hopes to keeping their cash flow coming in. They're going to promote what sells......sex, drugs, and violence. That's what Americans consume, Black and White.

You don't have to agree with me, but it seems that you will only believe what you want to believe. Why do we expect entertainers to promote Blackness when their goal is to make money?

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Brother I guess that answers my question in a nutshell. We are talking about entertainers(not revolutionaries)in, an essentially entertainment-based culture. Maybe that is the reason for the happy face, nothing is wrong mentality in the culture. Cool.