They are Grinch SA-24 shoulder-launched missiles, also known as Igla-S missiles, the equivalent of U.S.-made Stinger missiles.

A CNN team and Human Rights Watch found dozens of empty crates marked with packing lists and inventory numbers that identified the items as Igla-S surface-to-air missiles.

The list for one box, for example, written in English and Russian, said it had contained two missiles, with inventory number "Missile 9M342," and a power source, inventory number "Article 9B238."

Grinch SA-24s are designed to target front-line aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and drones. They can shoot down a plane flying as high as 11,000 feet and can travel 19,000 feet straight out.

Fighters aligned with the National Transitional Council and others swiped armaments from the storage facility, witnesses told Human Rights Watch. The warehouse is located near a base of the Khamis Brigade, a special forces unit in Gadhafi's military, in the southeastern part of the capital.

The warehouse contains mortars and artillery rounds, but there are empty crates for those items as well. There are also empty boxes for another surface-to-air missile, the SA-7.

Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch emergencies director, told CNN he has seen the same pattern in armories looted elsewhere in Libya, noting that "in every city we arrive, the first thing to disappear are the surface-to-air missiles."

He said such missiles can fetch many thousands of dollars on the black market.

"We are talking about some 20,000 surface-to-air missiles in all of Libya, and I've seen cars packed with them." he said. "They could turn all of North Africa into a no-fly zone."

There was no immediate comment from NTC officials.

The lack of security at the weapons site raises concerns about stability in post-Gadhafi Libya and whether the new NTC leadership is doing enough to stop the weapons from getting into the wrong hands.

A NATO official, who asked to not be named because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, said 575 surface-to-air missiles, radar systems and sites or storage facilities were hit by NATO airstrikes and either damaged or destroyed between March 31 and Saturday. He didn't elaborate on the specifics about the targets.

Gen. Carter Ham, chief of U.S. Africa Command, has said he's concerned about the proliferation of weapons, most notably the shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles. He said there were about 20,000 in Libya when the international operation began earlier this year and many of them have not been accounted for.

"That's going to be a concern for some period of time," he said in April.

Gilles de Kerchove, the European Union counterterrorism coordinator, raised concerns Monday about the possibility that al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, based in North Africa, could gain access to small arms, machine guns and surface-to-air missiles.

Western officials worry that weapons from the storage sites will end up in the hands of militants or adversaries like Iran.

The governments of neighboring Niger and Chad have both said that weapons from Libya are already being smuggled into their countries, and they are destined for al Qaeda. They include detonators and a plastic explosive called Semtex. Chad's president said they include SA-7 missiles.

An ethnic Tuareg leader in the northern Niger city of Agadez also said many weapons have come across the border. He said he and other Tuareg leaders are anxious about Gadhafi's Tuareg fighters returning home - with their weapons - and making common cause with al Qaeda cells in the region. Gadhafi's fighting forces have included mercenaries from other African nations.

The missing weapons also conjure fears of what happened in Iraq, where people grabbed scores of weapons when Saddam Hussein's regime was overthrown.

Bouckaert said one or two of the missing artillery rounds are "enough to make a car bomb."

"We should remember what happened in Iraq," he said, when the "country was turned upside down" by insurgents using such weaponry.

There have been similar concerns in Afghanistan, where the United States provided thousands of Stinger missiles to the Afghan mujahedeen when they were fighting the Soviets in the 1980s. The United States has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to buy them back, fearful that they would fall into the hands of terrorists.

For once, the terrorists should target refineries, pipelines, tank farms, tanker ships, munitions factories.... I bet they're a lot easier to hit than high security areas like airports, or cities. Why do those terrorists always want to goad us in to fighting them?

More reason to use rail, bus, or car transportation across the US and avoid the body scanners, long wait times on the tarmac, baggage check fees, pat downs, and getting shot out of the sky by missiles. But last time I checked 9 out of 10 air crashes are caused by pilot error, followed by human factors, and maintenance or design flaws. Oh, and I forgot to mention geese (Flt 1549 in the Hudson River). Those are the serious type of surface-to-air/air-to-air weapons. I blame Canada for them!!!

Yes. Or something even worse. My gripe with this is that CNN found a dozen empty cartons and expresses concern that IRAN might have somehow gotten ahold of them. The concern should be that one of them gets smuggled into the US. Which could be very bad. Or something like that. I just wish the reporting was more balanced. Iran already has these, and there are full crates of these everywhere in libya. Empty crates to me sounds like they were already used.

Don't buy into this nonsense..."Western officials worry that weapons from the storage sites will end up in the hands of militants or adversaries like Iran." Iran as it is manuactures its own equipment such as the "Qaem "- anti-helicopter, light-weight, laser guided missile or the "Shahin" – upgraded MIM-23 HAWK, supersonic ground-to-air guided missile with a range of more than 40 kilometers capable of targeting fighter jets and helicopters. The list of weapons manufactured by Iran is extensive and these are just a couple of examples.

Now what does CNN or Western Officials want us to believe useless weapons from Libya are destined for Iran? This is pathetic!

Exactly my point. It strikes me as very ignorant. Iran is busy trying to arm something 300 times more sophisticated with a nuke. Plus, there are literally half a million of these banging around the world. These are vintage.

After USSR went bust, a lot of these went missing. 12 more are not the issue. It would have been better for someone to write an editorial about all the weapons, specifically ak47s, that are ending up in the hands of the every day person in North Africa.

September 8, 2011 at 3:14 am |

blah

I cant understand, why people are referring to AKM's (Автомат Калашникова Модернизированный; Avtomat Kalashnikova Modernizirovanniy or "Kalashnikov's modernized automatic rifle") as AK-47? AK47 was produced only for short period of time, and you can not possibly get your hands on it. You can probably get an AK74M, AKM, AKMS or AK 103-105 range.
Look at the producers webpage http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/weapon.shtml

September 8, 2011 at 4:55 am |

nick ric

mr ruski, you are very serious about your Калашникова. Needless to say, we aren't talking about new shipments of weapons built in 2011. We are talking about stuff bought like 25 years ago. And the AK47, as a class of weapon, is the most popular on the globe. The fact that the new ones, 50 years after the design is now just called AK74 just proves my point. And if you want to split hairs, in reality this weapon is made in several countries now including china. And even th US now. Yes, really. No, it is not called 'AK47' exactly there either when the name is spoken in Chinese. You russians are so literal sometimes.

Again if you want to split hairs, one can quite easily get ahold of something classified as exactly, a technical, and literal ak47 anyway. They are just 'used' weapons. Or antique. You may not in russia, I don't know. but it we are talking about North Africa right now anyway. Jagshemash

September 8, 2011 at 5:47 am |

2bits

Probably Al Queda has them and plans to bring them to USA to shoot down commercial jets.

As much as I would like to disagree.... .I cannot. You are probably exactly right on whose hands those missiles are in and this is the EXACT reason why I kept on saying "Hey, getting rid of Qaddafi might be a bad thing!"

I know people still believe about our government after ten years. The media has done nothing really now or in the past for that people that matter. Oh yeah, let go back and stuff my face with cheese burger and watch Dick Cheney on Leno while everything stays the same.

the civil rights movement was a cia op. youtube 'peter paul mary civil rights '. study each frame, blurred faces, white guys in sun glasses...million 'gros just did not gather unless dressed/bussed by cia....its all made in hollywood

September 8, 2011 at 2:21 am |

wilbur

'For a long time i denied 9.11 conspiracy, now i am convinced based on the aftermath. USA = USSR+THIRD REICH
BECAUSE OF ALL THE NEEDLESS FEAR. Oh...look...a Muslim...must be a terrorist. for crying out loud.

The teabaggers bought most of them to keep big governement from inner-fearing wit there peaceful prejedjuices.

September 8, 2011 at 1:38 am |

Jim

First you blame Iran for getting nukes, and then blame them for trying to get 1950s technology (that they can make themselves or by directly from Russia or China)? CNN is 100% run by J E W S. Total J E W propaganda.

Did your parents have any children that lived? How in the hell did you manage to take an article that expressed concern about how 20,000 stinger-like missiles could end up in the hands of terrorists; who in turn could them on U.S. and NATO Forces? You my friend are truly gifted...your momma/sister must be proud of you and your fancy 2nd grade education! I bet she is going to give you a gold-plated wife/sister-beater for your intellectual superiority!
Now let's think logically, that means reasonably or in a clear and consistent manner...If these shoulder fired, heat seeking missiles end up in the hands of Taliban/AQ we could have another situation where a a Chinook...that means big helicopter gets shot down carrying some of our nation's finest warriors. DO YOU GET IT? Or are you to high on super-glue and moonshine to comprehend...that means understand. Chances are you don't and are a 5'2" 120lb wanna-be skinhead who talks like a tough guy while seated in his mom's basement that he refers to as the "Death Star" and would crap himself if he saw a person who isn't white. I dare you to take your stupid little klan outfit to the "ghetto" and strut around yelling white power....I'm sure the folks could use some clean sheets after they slap you silly.
Grow Up Loser.

It was 'possibly' several dozen. And all they found are empty crates. These things were probably fired in '88 anyway. Got to stick to the facts, man...

September 8, 2011 at 1:22 am |

patrick A.

Sometimes the Truth sure HURT.

September 8, 2011 at 2:00 am |

Spica

Gawd, I love a man who can spin words like you just did. My hat is off to you.
Damn that was excellent compared to the usual pap on these forums. ❤

September 8, 2011 at 2:00 am |

london

HEY HARD BODY<

First of all you sound like a racist biatch, second of all if these weapons are in the wrong hands so what??? what makes you think whatever US does to every other damn country is OK but if someone drops a bomb on you then there is problem? you make your bed and then you sleep in it. US decided to invade again another country who was no danger to the US but because of all the other shiiit that they have like oil all of a sudden someone who was your friend for 40 years is now a dictator and after you attack the country some missiles go missing. Ok even if Iran has them so f....g what? the f.....g Israeli jews can have whatever the hell they wish but no other muslim country can defend itself with new technology weapons? wake the f... up before i myself shove a missile where sun dont shine BROTHER

September 8, 2011 at 2:41 am |

Calvin

Who should we claim for the U.S anti-tank, ground-to-air missles and tons of machine guns including satellite phone and GPS .... that Obama has given to this guy in the last 3 years? Where are these weapons? Are they in Iran or Somalia.... hand?

I got it. The missiles were looted by the CIA. Maybe they'll try setting up one of those provocation incidents and blame it on Kaddhafi supporters. That way Bushama and Clinton can use nuclear weapons. Great they're running things.

Everyone on here is tripping because CNN found some shoulder fired rockets are missing? How are people so stupid? Who do you think the Taliban has been firing at US helicopters for the last 10 years, every day, 10 or 20 times a day? And how do we know these things were actually just FIRED during the MONTHS of fighting that has been going on in Libya? are people really this dense?

And IRAN might get them? Like they can't just buy their own from Russia? Seriously? This is 1950's technology.

Isn't IRAN working on getting Nukes, like their friends North Korea and Pakistan? Meanwhile look at all the americans on there freaking out that some shoulder fired rockets were reported missing by CNN. What nonsense.

Even if not, just how few of these things do you think the taliban has? How many do you think Victor Bout has up for sale? We are talking a few dozen missing rockets in the face of probably several hundred thousand in the hands of Pakistan and Taliban.

Who cares? Next they are going to be freaking out because they find some empty crates in Ukraine where ak47s used to be.

who is this 'Rick' you are talking about? if you read, it's clearly 'Nick'. And your comment was rubbish either way

September 8, 2011 at 12:27 am |

Marine5484

Ummm....there not just rockets like a RPG-7 or 9 but, a surface to air guided missile that actively tracks the IR signature of the exhaust off the engines of a helicopter or jet engine and is a big concern to the US military. It is also a huge concern for civilian aircraft that have no countermeasures to defeat these systems.

My point was there are hundreds of thousands of these things already out there. Heat seeking or not. And already in the hands of you don't know who. Anyone could have them, they are for sale by Russia and also many smaller countries. Many, many terrorists, rogue paramilitary, and the nations of concern ALREADY HAVE THEM. Case in point, Libya under Q had thousands upon thousands of these things. And back to Iran. Iran has all kinds of guided and unguided missiles, shoulder fired or not, and many of them technologically superior to these models. Russia sold these same things to Q, and they also sell to the P of Syria and PM Yemen and who ever they so choose.

September 8, 2011 at 12:35 am |

london

gooooooooood, then US can get some of his own medicine. You aint a super power anymore so wake the f up

September 8, 2011 at 2:46 am |

2bits

Well lets hope that the next missing items don't turn out to be the mustard gas that Gadhafi stockpiled. That wracks havoc inside tunnels.

Wow, good job with fear mongering on Iran. Forget Iran the Taliban gets their hands on some of these rockets we will be running out of Afghanistan with our tail between our legs as fast as the planes can take off.

They will most likely turn up in Mexico. Qaddafi wanted to trade oil to China so they would put some communications satellites for the African Union thus cutting the Europeans out of oil and a very lucrative multi bandwidth system run by them. Now who would have figured on that, there is more to the story than meets the eye. Follow the money!

i can see a bunch of nazi idiot,trying to say jesus blank someone butthead youre going to get the worst wrath from God you will go downfall in no time its the truth thats goes to jman3 you should be banned from commenting craps Grow up!!!!!!

Nick Green, You're 100% correct Iran does not need does weapons it manufactures it's own does are kiddy toys for Iran biased new's making Iran look evil to rev up the war propaganda. They are very good allies of Russia and China and do not need these weapons they can easily obtain them from Russia and china . media is pure biased and war propaganda demonizing Iran.

The really funny and sick thing about this story is the U.S. could not sell weapons to LIbya in the past, but now with a new government, how long will it be before the U.S. is selling weapons to Libya,,,,
like we are to Iraq,
and Afghanistan...

All the lastest weapons make the world go round,
the world go round,
the world go round,
All the lastest weapons make the world go round,
All the live long day.

Another 'Blame it on Obama' charter member of the Teabagger Tin Foil Hat Brigade. I got a newsflash for you; The Libyan rebellion was all the Libyan's idea. Obama was nowhere near the place & his job (which he did) was to keep American boots off the ground. Never let the facts interfere with a good partisan rant.

Sharp you are wrong on every aspect. Obummer pushed NATO into Libya with France and the UK but didn't have the balls to stand out front.

September 7, 2011 at 11:50 pm |

sam

you dont even know nothing mike,,,ur soo ignorant ,,what does obama have to do with the war on libya,,,its france and england wo declared the war and the united state just participated...what a races you are...not because u dont like obama it means he is responsible for every problem...

i totaly agree, i was a staunch supporter obama then he acts like bush and decides america and its military needs to attack libya to "free them from tyranny" totally the opposite of what he campaigned against. Obama is a failure and now thanks to him my brothers have to worry about 20.000 more surface to air missles that will no doubt be fired at them. No sand niggers freedom is worth the life of a american soldier!

The premise of this article is pure baloney. Its quite obvious why the corporate media have turned into a war-mongering propaganda drivel exercise; all the major US media outlets are owned by the same private conglomerates that manufacture weapons of war. The US corporate media are giving Joseph Goebbels a run for his money... but there is a difference: at least the Nazi propagandists weren't lying about their mission. In contrast, the US mainstream media has the same basic mission as wartime Nazi Germany, but pretending to be a free, unbiased and objective disseminator of news and current affairs.

The problem here is that the awareness, education and knowledge of history on the part of the US public is at an alltime low... in a National Geographic poll taken around 2003, while the Iraq war was raging, at least 80% of high school student were unable to locate Iraq on a map of the world (!), and 50% could not even identify the Pacific Ocean, the largest geographical feature on the planet (!!!!). No wonder the warmongers can constantly lie their way into multiple wars, or pull a false flag terror attack on our own nation, and more, without the majority even raising an eyebrow, while they wave flags like so many docile idiots, pretending to be "patriotic", under some make believe feel-good notion that they are "supporting America".

This is how nations fall, and dictators and rogues take over. First Bush, now Obama.

By the way, you stupid writer of this imbecilic article... Iran hasn't attacked anyone in >250 years, and is hardly likely to now. They are more interested in defending themselves through strength.. no wonder they are developing a nuclear program... so they are less likely to get attacked by some rogue "coalition of the coerced" in order to steal their natural resources.

Some posters have said that these weapons are likely inoperable due to bad batteries. Let us hope fervently that this is true. If they can get them operational & into Europe or the US I don't see how we can protect civil aviation. My guess an airliner takes about 5 minutes & 20 or 30 miles of flying to get above 11,000 feet altitude. That's a lot of territory to place a hidden firing site in. If they can get large numbers into Afghanistan they can seriously challenge our air superiority there, at least where helicopter flights are concerned. The same with any other hot spot. THANK YOU RUSSIA.

No, Your disruptive graphics posts are shit, just like you. Anything to grandstand & prevent real people from having a discussion.

September 7, 2011 at 11:12 pm |

Dreamer96

It is true what you say about a plane coming in for a landing or taking off, but not much has changed here,,,,Those weapons were on the black market before this, and we have been pretty good at catching any coming into the U.S.

It's good to make this public, but looting of army supply depots happened before in Iraq, and as for Libya's WMD's some of those have a short life span too, the chemicals go bad,,,look up what the Weapons inspectors found in Irag between the Gulf War of 1991 and the 2003 invasion/war, many chemical weapons loaded in shells and containers had gone bad...

Those of you who link this to President Obama are exactly the sort of morons who have brought our country to it's knees. Think! What in in the $%!+ does our President have to do with this situation? You are so consumed with hatred and racial prejudice you a re unable to form a logical thought. You are a traitor to America because you place hatred above the well being of our country. Turn off Fox News and get a brain!

Morons? You guys want to give him credit for Libyan falling, well it is now time to man-up and lay the blame with things get screwed up over there. Then again, you probably wouldn't know much about being a man.

Why is the question of Iran even open other than as a pop term? They have third-party nuclear resources in one form or another. It's years past, both figuratively and literally, worrying about their surface to air capabilities.

Exactly, we should more concerned about someone wanting to make a quick buck and sell to anybody who willing to take down a plane for their extreme politics. Leave Iran alone till this get some nukes and the smackem'

Mean while here in America. An individual walks up to an IHOP in Carson City, Nevada and starts shooting inside the restaurant from an AK-47 that was supposedly banned from China and yet some how we're supposed to secure Russian made Missiles in Libya??? Really????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

SORRY, YOU'RE WRONG! AND YOU'RE YELLING! What does missing SAM missiles have to do with Libya arresting (allegedly) al-Qaeda members? And as far as being better with than without Mr. Q, I'd suggest asking the Libyan people about that.

They got rid of Saddam Hussein and Kadaffi. I do not think whoever replace them are any better. Even worse. Now all the weapons are stolen. Now the US will have to be more involved in yet another country.

What a stupid story.... Frizz head likely bought those to "protect" himself against the US and others (at least shoot down a few planes). But after seeing that happened to the Iraqii airforce, he likely just spent his money elsewhere and saved the money on gas 🙂 Plus I'm sure after Lockerbie he wasn't getting a lot of spare parts. He likley could have tried to sell them, but who wants outdated aircraft that likely don't fly? and those who do can't afford them.

And what about the US and britain? all our hardware that could have been spent on our people? Where's this reporter from?

that said, Frizz head did spend and steal a lot of the nations money. 36B over 6K people is $6,000 for every man, woman and child in Libya. With an average family size of say 3.2, that's $20K per family. Now that's a better angle at a story

Show some civility on these psoting sites and dont use swearing or name calling. Gaddaff, Megrahi, Libya are innocent of the German and Lockerbie bombing and both of these have been declared cleared by multiple experts. The false trial had Israel, UK paid millions for phny witnesses to lie. The retrial would have cleared him and a fair trial the first time also. Remember that Nato countries have repeatedly lied about Gaddaffi along with their media sites and CNN,BBC,Aljazeera,Reuters,France24, Time many of these admit there are lies about Gaddaffi by their own staff on their sites. These sites are good to see photos,videos, make comments, but they are biased and repeatedly wrong. Nato website and US military and US Govt all lie. Sites print what they want you to believe. See more crediblew info on Gaddaffi at http://www.english.pravda.com and http://www.mathaba.net and http://www.globalresearch.ca Why dont you attack the politicians and these media sites I just named and the UN,ICC, and Nato and Nato countries , rebels, and NTC, for killing thousands of people, for refusing to stop the war and the war is committing treason punishable by death so Gaddaffi soldiers had the right to kill all armed protestors and they were all armed. Nato admits they and ntc and rebels planned and started war with Nato spies and Nato military. WHy not blame all of them? NTC and rebels destroyed the country. Gaddaffi is a hero for trying to save it. Punish your politicians plus blame the ICC and UN for not stopping the war.

Now those WMDs, the chemical/biological. The dept for those are located a few hundred miles away from civilization. Last time they were checked on, which wasn't too long ago, the containers were in bad shape. A trek across the country-side would be too much. Plus, Ghaddafi doesn't have the technology let alone the right materials to make a decent delivery system for those types of weapons. Maybe a modified SCUD. But when the US bombed Libya we took out practically all of those kinds of delivery systems. The same way the US did Iraq in the 90s. Also, as far as terrorists getting their hands on them, nearby countries have already been notified to look out for them at border-crossings. They are looking for them. AND even if they did, Al-Quida doesn't have the right delivery system for them. It's not like you can strap a canister on a bomb and boom. The heat would destroy the chemicals in a rudimentary type of explosive they use. A nation-state would have to provide the materia, ready-made. Iran maybe, but they can't even get a few hundred guns and motars near Israel.

Shoulder fired missiles are rather low-tech devices. You have to be able to see what you're firing at and then fire the missile in the general direction of the target in order for the missile to acquire the target. A large portion of the initial attacks on Libya were at night. Can't shoot down what you can't see.

There were a significant number of helicopter missions during daylight hours. A fairly soft target yet the Libyan military did not engage. Perhaps they agreed not to fire in exchange for safe passage into Niger. Who knows, but CNN is obviously not going to tell us everything.

The guidance system on those rockets are infrared aka heat seeking. You can hear helicopters coming, see their lights and fire away. But that's not the issue. The issue would be Ghaddafi shooting down NATO helicopters on "peacekeeping" missions. With a US warship and NATO fighter jets already bombing key structures but not intentionally attacking ground to cut their numbers, shooting them down would be catastrophic for Ghaddafi's military. It would draw out ground troops and actual attacks on Ghaddafi's forces. It would be an actual war between Libya's already crumbling regime and world super powers. Bad idea. Ghaddafi didn't necessarily need command and control stations to fight I'll-equipped/experienced rebels; or so he thought. The biggest mistake would have been to intentionally go after NATO. Honestly, I think this whole "put up a fight" was to buy time to secure assets, get safe points, formulate and coordinate an escape and try to disappear. When Ban Waldi surrenders, I would be surprised if Ghaddafi is actually there. He would go to a friendly nation, with no extradition, that's too far away for a rebel army to get to with out violating certain laws.

September 7, 2011 at 10:05 pm |

wisdom4u2

Not!! LASER GUIDED RPG can do great damage!!!

September 7, 2011 at 10:27 pm |

PacerLJ35

The SA-24 is a very modern IR-guided missile system. It's quite a bit more advanced than the SA-7. While it's true that you typically have to "see" the target in order for the seeker head to get a lock, it is possible to target aircraft at night.

September 7, 2011 at 10:36 pm |

Matt Cusumano

Qadaffi has been a stalwart supporter of the U.S. in it's war on Terror..and look what that got him. Qadaffi, and the Libyan government have done the U.S.'s bidding in every possible instance. Just recently Jon McCain met with top Qadaffi government officials in crafting the Libyan position on radical islam. Qadaffi was stabbed in the back ruthlessly by the U.S.
Libya had nothing to do with Lockerbee. The reason the U.K. released the man convicted in that bombing is only because he was about to be released as NOT GUILTY upon appeal. The U.K. would never have released him if he wasn't truly innocent. They released him because they felt they could control the story if he was released on "Medical Grounds" rather than having his conviction overturned. All one has to do to find the truth is to check out the news coverage on this in Scotland, where everyone, even the victims families admit that the Libyan was falsely convicted and had nothing to do with the lockerbee bombing.

Sorry but I'd rather chose a revolution for democracy than a dictator lap dog. The US stalled on the situation enough to allow innocent people to be killed. It's not like the US is the most conscientious country in the world. But the US had to throw their hat in. The UN Security Council was eventually going to get involved and that was the revolutions survival. If the US played mum and the revolution went the same way, we would have a non US-ally where we already had one. It was a win-win-win for the US. Stand up for democracy, take out a dictator, new US ally. Plus, the US will get oil for cheap over it and probably rebuilding contracts.

Really? either you actually believe that win-win-win crap or maybe your just being sarcastic but either way. Democracy did not win in Libya I can guarantee you that.....not by a long shot.

September 7, 2011 at 10:27 pm |

LouieD

I know what you mean, Matt. It's not like Qadaffi deserved the benefit of the doubt, but by supporting the NATO actions, Obama basically comes across as no better than the Bush crime family, who always seem to backstab their high-profile overseas business partners. Manuel Noriega and Saddam Hussein learned this the hard way. Sad to say, but Obama's decision to involve us in an action against Qadaffi, at a time when he was being relatively cooperative with us, can't possibly instill any trust or confidence in the U.S. from many international leaders who would otherwise have thought of reaching out to us.

What does Q's relations with the US or any other country have to do with the Libyan people toppling his despotic regime? You make it sound like we're the ones who started the Libyan revolution. News for you – we didn't. It was the Libyan people as far as I can recall. Are you saying we should have helped him put down the revolution? We've tried that tactic numerous times before, and it doesn't work. Ask the Shah of Iran.

All of these Arab Uprising are all in fact caused by Nato countries deciding to overthrow all countries. Nato countries see this not as destroying countries, leader's jobs and lives but as Nato PROTECTING CIVILIANS. NTC andrebels and Nato and Coalition members including military and politicians admit to planning this back to 199-2000. IT is a game,sport,entertainment to them like playing chess or any jigzaw puzzle or board game. The warmongers who cause all these wars like Clinton,Bush,Cheny,Obama,Sarkozy dont have familiy getting killed, it is not their home or schools being destroyed by napalm,depleted uranium or white phosphorous or agent orange, their job is not getting shelled or hit with gunfire or bombs, they arent getting beheaded, raped, tortured so they dont have any compassion for those who are suffering. They never visit the actual morgues,secret prisons,never see torture or get on the front lines. They all profit from war and it is the idea that starting a war will bring them riches,more power, a political election. It is necessary to vote them out of office,never vote for these pro war people like McCain,Obama,Pelosi,Reid,Graham,Cardin,Boehner,Lieberman,etc. Keep pressuring them to end wars, demand justice from ICC and UN to punish the war causers, demand they cant profit from war, dont join the military, boycott the war companies, dont buy war games, or video games or movies, keep blaming the media who like CNN and BBC actually promote all wars. The media should all be against war and help prevent it and end it. It is also trillions of dollars wasted but the biggest loss of course are all the lives destroyed and each war usually leads to more wars in the future. Money spent on waars is money no longer available for retirement,medical,housing,education,curing cancer, stamping out poverty and homelessness,welfare, etc.WRONG. This is lose,lose,lose. All wars, no one respects the war causers. No one respects Clinton,Biden,Obama. Politicians ruin their own careers. More chance or Nato citizens in danger worldwide after this. The US is bankrupt. Wars cause lifelong suffering to the war victims that can last the rest of their lives. War is always lose,lose,lose,lose for everyone. Everyone is negatively affected by war even if they dont always see it.The whole world have Nato,Nato country leaders,pilots,military,staff, and politicians.They will be hated for the rest of their lives plus people will write books and say these Nato coalition people all deserve hatred and suffering for the wars they cause. So the war causing Nato politicians like Obama may profit now but in the end he and all the rest will suffer.

September 7, 2011 at 11:17 pm |

patrick A.

But most IDIOTS here doesn,t know that,if they did they would ask why would Scotland released this guy only if, he agrees NOT to Appeal his conviction.

When it comes to those SAMs (surface-air missiles), NATO and the US fly their missions higher than the weapons max. distance because of the SAMs. They would be able to target helicopters but not fighter jets nor (as everyone is freaking out about) commercial airliners. First, commercial jets fly well above 10k; second the only time when they would be in range is for someone to magically sneak on to an airfield/port with a big box the size of a launcher, pull it out, target the plane and fire it. That takes a lot more time than you think and they would have a rocket contrail leading right to them. That kind of attack is not your typical suicide where it's instantaneous, you have enough time to get some good ol' fear in you about those CIA black-sites. Lastly, I saved the most common sense one for last, HOW MANY COMMERCIAL JETS HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT GETTING KNOCKED OUT OF THE SKY BY A ROCKET?!?! It's not like these SAMs are super special compared to the ones the terrorists already have. They're actually the exact same. There are just going to be more of them. Besides, I don't know about to guys but I dont really fly around Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, etc. They use their own commercial jets.

Commerical aircraft commonly fly below 10k feet. How else do you think they depart and arrive at airports? Typically they are flying well within the weapons engagement zone of a SA-24 many miles out from the airport. These weapons probably won't wind up in the US (they could, however). More likely they will pop up in some civil war or other conflict in Africa, or possibly wind up in Afghanistan.

CNN is saying that pro-Qadaffi forces might somehow give weapons to al Queda? That's ridiculous. Qadaffi is the enemy of Al Queda. Al Queda is fighting with the NTC, and the Rebels. They need to worry about the NTC looting the weapons and using them in terrorist attacks. The only reason why this entire uprising wasn't characterized as an Al Queda sponsored terrorist coup de etat is because the west supports the terrorists in this case. CNN is just the propaganda arm of the NATO and by extension, the terrorists.

Oh this is going to turn out well. Why in the name of god didn't the nato forces think this one through. They had been talking about it for a while, but now .......... It would have been very helpful to destroy these warehouses at the get go. So kdaffy is still free and now thousands of stinger equivalents are free as well. Good job Nato and you morons who thought that Libya was a walk in the park.

The only problem with your statement is that, yes the US did nothing during the looting of the weapon depots when we were invading Iraq, although Libya isn't a United States invasion. It is being spearheaded by NATO and the United Nations via a Security Council Resolution. The United States is hanging back on this one while other nations such as France are doing most of the fighting via JET AIRCRAFT NOT GROUND TROOPS. So Yes the United States is doing nothing to stop this, because we are NOT ON THE GROUND OR HEAVILY INVOLVED IN THIS CONFLICT. So next time you decide to open your mouth and spew your nonsense do the research. Oh yeah and have a nice day.

September 7, 2011 at 8:24 pm |

Eric

OK, lets do some additional thinking:

Suppose the US had fairly complete intel on the weapons storage prior to hostilities. Suppose the special forces and black ops contractors who crossed into Libya during the NATO strike phase for forward observation and targeting were accompanied by a few extra guys, who had a different agenda: find fix and destroy key munitions so they do not fall into the wrong hands.

If a weapons storage facility is bombed, the destruction is sloppy. The site is hastily abandoned, and now breached and unguarded, creating an opportunity for the wrong hands to sort through the wreckage and grab something undamaged of great value, like MANPADS. If those facilities where the most sensitive weapons are sited are instead NOT bombed, but are targeted for a prepared entry just as the guard force loses comms with the Govt forces as the regime goes down, it would be possible – quite easy – to remove the SAMs by the truckload and destroy them in a matter of hours.

Possibly you overlooked this because you just wanted to believe the west is incompetent.

Israel was licky that was surrounded by dictators and those Revolution taking place in the Arab world will be a big head ache for Israel, Syria is in the hot spot and if a Revolution take over the name of the game is going to change and Israel will have to sit and talk with the Palestinians. Those dictators did not care about the Palestinians they just wanted to stay in power and as soon as those countries start to have freedom and liberty they will show the world that the occupation of Palestinian Land for those settler is inmoral and the United States will have change its policy of protecting Israel like they are a big brother and use our tax payer money to be used to opprese the Palestinians People!
Ideassoul

Actually when the countries surrounding Israel have freedom they will not want to have to fight the Palestinians' battles. Meanwhile, Assad seems ready to fight for continued power to the last drop of blood of his citizens. Unless the Syrian army revolts en masse, nothing will change.so you may wipe that anti-Jewish smirk off of your face.

The Mujahadeen in Afghanistan beat the Russians with Stinger Missles supplied by the CIA. In todays wars or confilcts the side with air power wins – unless the other side has the weapons to challenge that air power. In todays's Afghanistan, Iraq, and most recently in Libya the NATO forces have been successful primarily because of their unchallenged air power. When the Coalition Forces attacked the Iraqi's in Kuwait their were warehouses full of anti-air craft missles including the Russia version of the Stinger. Libya had 1000's of the same according to this article. Now – tell me why Saddam in Kuwait and in Iraq and Kaddafi in Libya did not use their anti air craft missles and in particular the Stinger fact similars. It just doesn't make sense to me – these shouldered fired missles in Iraq and in Libya during the US and NATO attacks would have made quite a difference in the outcome – and even now could turn the tide. Big question here. – from a former Vietnam Marine.

Maybe, these stingers have a backdoor method to disable them (electronic counter measure) if they target Western planes. I really really hope so.
Now, even if so, how will you disable them if they target civilian aircraft: Boeing, Airbus may or maynot carry such counter measures: I hope they have had the brains to put it in...

Here we go again – we never learn, even from the most recent history! Western politicians don't really care even though they claim that they do, because they don't directly suffer the consequences relating to weapons thefts. They leave that to others, often innocent civilians.

Standby, don't fly, and who knows who has these very effective missles which the U.S. manufactured. Don't buy the story that the Russians built them and sold them to Libya. Flight 800 was shot down by one of these and the Government feared the truth so they found it was another cause.Just imagine what you would do if you were told 800 dropped with a U.S. built missle that took it down. Whose heads would have rolled. Standby, don't fly, there are now hundreds of these in the market place.We knew we sold them even after Locherby. American Politicans, you got to love them.

Get it straight Justin: Terrorists ...... NOT muslims. Are you one of the bone-headed Americans who believe the wonderful USA is under seige by ALL muslim people? Educate yourself. You might begin by opening a geography book and sharing what's in it with your fellow ignorant American folks.

Not ALL Muslims are Terrorists....But MOST Terrorists are Muslim. Unless you have different facts.

September 7, 2011 at 7:35 pm |

LouieD

So "Hear Ye"... Muslims are not terrorists, we shouldn't generalize like that, but Americans are bone-headed and ignorant; is that how it works? With that kind of stupid comment, you don't exactly come across as a brain surgeon, yourself. I'm guessing you think terrorist 7th Day Adventists attacked us on 9-11?

September 7, 2011 at 8:39 pm |

Stu

How about Americans, Muslims, and Christians are dumb, arrogant, and terrorists!!!

September 7, 2011 at 10:26 pm |

Ritchard

The need to pass the Patriot act was the reason 9-11 had to happen. American's are under siege by our high jacked government.

September 7, 2011 at 10:26 pm |

Truthwillsetyoufree

I bet it was the GOP. They are going after Obama now... The coup begins!

Brussels – Al-Qaeda's north African branch has acquired a stockpile of weapons in Libya, including surface-to-air missiles that are threatening air travel, the EU's counter-terrorism coordinator said on Monday.

Due to the turmoil in Libya, members of al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb have "gained access to weapons, either small arms or machine-guns, or certain surface-to-air missiles which are extremely dangerous because they pose a risk to flights over the territory," said Gilles de Kerchove.

At a news conference marking the 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks in the United States, De Kerchove said that while the threat of strikes by mainstream Al-Qaeda followers had decreased, was taking root both on the Arab peninsula and in Africa, posing a mounting threat.

"It is a group that is Africanising and seeking to extend its area of influence," he said.

Like other al-Qaeda affiliates in Pakistan and elsewhere, AQIM had gained support among locals by using ransom money and possibly drug-related income to fund social services unavailable from cash-strapped African governments.

It had extended its area of action from northern Niger, Mali and Mauritania to northern Nigeria and as far south as Senegal, he said.

To put a brake on any further extension of its influence, European Union nations needed to help African countries such as Chad and Niger to reintegrate the hundreds of thousands of migrant workers who have fled home from Libya in the past months.

Mali alone faced the return of 210 000 people, he said.

Plans were underway also to aid information-gathering and counter-terror centres in Algeria and Mauritania, and to back Malian efforts to redeploy seven to 10 military bases in its remote barren north as well as provide basic services for the population there......................................

I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU PEOPLE ALL ALONG THAT THE REBELS ARE AL-QAEDA!!

NOW THE TRUTH IS COMING OUT AND NATO IS STILL REFUSING TO ADMIT WHO THEY ARE!

THE REBELS GAVE THEM THE WEAPONS! THIS IS NOT DUE TO ANY TURMOIL IN LIBYA!! THE REBELS ARE AL-QAEDA!!

September 7, 2011 at 6:47 pm |

Hear Ye

So .... you are some sort of CIA operative on the ground and in the know?
OR are you just another Columbo, praeching from the comfort of your easy chair? Go stroke your stupid cat.

September 7, 2011 at 7:28 pm |

mar

hear ye....

I dont have a cat,or a dog aor an easy chair! instead of being the moron and idiot that you are,you should GOOGLE the info from the article that I copied from REUTERS and see for yourself how stupid you are.

just another lying american who refuses to admit the truth that our so called great country is nothing but an imperialist dictatorship disguised as a democracy that kills innocent people while bombing their country to steal their resources under the disguise of democracy.

we sided with the same AL-QAEDA TERRORIST who were killing american soldiers in afghanistan just to remove gadaffi to steal his countries oil. OBAMA AND NATO WILL FAIL! because as you can see with your own ignorant eyes,the rebels are in fact AL-QAEDA!

NOTHING GOOD WILL COME FROM THIS ILLEGAL BOMBING OF LIBYA BECAUSE WE SIDED WITH KNOWN TERRORIST!

YOUR AN IDIOT!!

September 7, 2011 at 7:41 pm |

Sharp

You know, that makes sense. I sure hope you're right. Those towelheads will do everything they can to make them operational. They can get real clever when killing innocent people is the goal.

you can't get more dumb. look up libya on wiki...black in south, arab in north....few people WHEELUS AIRBASE CIA

September 8, 2011 at 2:28 am |

Mike

Probably not... NATO strike aircraft don't generally fly at 11,000 feet, primarily to limit their vulnerability to such weapons. Only a few countries have the kind of anti-aircraft capability to take on NATO strike aircraft, and those countries don't sell that type of weaponry very cheaply, primarily because it would compromise the operational safety of their military aircraft as well.

JUST F–Kin' GREAT. The world doesn't have 20,000 airliners for Al Qadea to shoot down. I guess some airliners will get 2 of these missiles; just to make sure. I hope Russian airliners get it first & often. They are so fond of exporting this kind of weaponry wherever a fast buck is to be made. Let them pay the price.

Israel is on top of this matter, and the US has authorized Israel to use whatever force is necessary to find and destroy these weapons, and the people holding these weapons. We are getting closer to 2012.

The power requirements for these systems are very specific and narrow, and hopefully, the batteries can no longer provide the voltage and amperage needed for the targeting system to operate properly. That said, maybe Obama should have had a little more foresight in how he handled Ghadafi. It's a little late to notice that the barn door is open.

I believe you're right about the batteries.They are a special type, and the missiles do not have a long shelf life unless the batteries are properly maintained. These weapons were manufactured in the former USSR. and are probably as reliable as equipment Made In 'China', so many of them won't fire due to dead batteries. Bomb the battery factories-problem solved. On the other hand, US made Stinger missiles have a unique battery that is only available from one manfacturer and is designed to die if not properly maintained. I pray that one of those insurgents will face-off with an Apache helicopter....."Allah Akbar"!.......CLICK....(WTF?{in Arabic}=2011 Middle East Darwin Award

More ignorance from you! I am self-employed and I am not in a union. You continue to spout crap that bubbles from the place where your brain ought to be. You wouldn't know a FACT if it hit you in the face and so you simply babble.

There should have been more western boots on the ground. French, British, USA special forces teams to make sure these missilles and WMDS didn't fall into the hands of the Al Queda faction of the rebels. Does anybody in the government think ahead? You have to be prepared for every contigency you may come across. We should have known and have been prepared!!!!

Way to go, anncole! The subject is weapons looted from the Libyan armories but you can't miss the opportunity to take a shot at the president. I'm sure you did the same after the "shock and awe" in Iraq when Mr Bush declared "Mission Accomplished" and then the crazies all looted the Iraqi armories – well, did you? Of course you did because you are no doube fair and balanced.

Obama did'nt get involved in Libya and you blame him for some damn missile getting looted,hell,if he had gotten involved you would say that we don't need another money-spending war. There's no pleasing you cracked-brained bitches and that's why when you talk, nobodys gives a fuck.

Very clever, Pete. Are you a Repubmoron? Or maybe a conservadope? Hey do you sit around diddling yourself all day trying to think up cute names to call those who disagree with you? What a child! Grow up.

September 7, 2011 at 5:58 pm |

Jesse James

Pete, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Michael is just mad because he wanted to buy a video of you diddling yourself for his own personal use. Pete, you keep that up you'll go blind...er.

September 7, 2011 at 6:23 pm |

nick ric

Reagan caused this mess.

September 8, 2011 at 1:25 am |

Dreamer96

If you notice the contract date is on the weapons crate, number 60 for the year 2004...The weapons are old, batteries dead,,,useless...

You know nothing about weapons. They are designed to last many years in a bunker. The batteries do not go "bad" in just 8 years because they are not your standard AA batteries. You need to research before you post.

The batteries loaded into those missles, have to maintain a narrow band of constant voltage, amps, and power the flight control fins, guidance computer, seeker head, and gyros...an 8 year of Russian battery is not going to last long, then the missile just flys out uncontroled, a flying rock,,,useless

September 7, 2011 at 10:40 pm |

Dreamer96

On top of the contract date being from 2004, you have no way from this picture of knowing how many years the missiles sat in a warehouse in Russia, before Libya got them....I would not be surprised if the Russians sold Libya old stock, not the new off the factory floor equipment...So the batteries could be close to 20 or 30 years old...

September 7, 2011 at 10:52 pm |

CT Yankee

If accurate, this alarming story is just starting........these are incredibly dangerous and effective weapons and they have been a favorite in the middle east, eastern European, and western Asian war zones since the days of the Afghans mujahadeen who cut their teeth on the U.S. Stinger SAM...........they essentially make a single user the equal of almost any combat aircraft and of course, commercial aircraft are helpless against them........they apparently have a range of approximately 11 to 12 thousand feet up and 19 to 20 thousand feet out and have tracking systems that have an alarming rate of accuracy..........they hit their targets.........as well they are also equally effective against any ground target but are generally saved for aerial targets because of their technically advanced and expensive nature..........it is absolutely paramount that these devilish weapons be re-covered if at all possible before some zealot yahoo figures out how to get some into the weeds outside JFK or LaGuardia.

In testing, a variety of manpads were found to be very effective on moving targets crossing bridges for instance, as well as having a high degree of effectiveness against muntion stores and fuel storage tanks and targets at height like tall buildings.........while you are correct that they are not as effective against level targets or in other words, targets very close to the ground where an rpg or wire guided weapon would be more effective mostly due to the manpads limited payload and other restrictions (sighting/tracking) of the ordinance they use.

September 8, 2011 at 2:01 am |

mar

you are correct and this story doesnt even tell HALF the truth! nato has known for months that the rebels are al-qaeda and have been looting those weapons and GIVING them to terrorist groups in northern africa and in gaza.

the al-qaeda rebels have even looted libya's WMD's and has already transfered them to gaza and the sudan! this is just the beginning! and obama has known it all along and has tried to keep a lid on it! but these are terrorist,couldnt keep that secret for long!

Another 'Blame it on Obama' charter member of the Teabagger Tin Foil Hat Brigade. I got a newsflash for you; The Libyan rebellion was all the Libyan's idea. Obama was nowhere near the place & his job (which he did) was to keep American boots off the ground.

September 7, 2011 at 6:36 pm |

JamesX

Wow first there is WMD in Iraq, now there is WMD in Libya.... You guys have some serious issue with mixing dreams with reality. Whatever flaws Gadaffi had, he was pretty honest with his nuclear programs. As for his Chemical Programs he tossed them out with his Nuclear Development programs back in 2004, some believe because what we did to Iraq. U.N. was the one that inspected the destruction of his Mustard Gas and such. His Nuclear Program have yet to bore fruit at that point.

September 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm |

Tom

@JamesX,

The WMD (Mustard Gas) remaining stockpile was still in Libya. Even the Libyan Government at the time admitted this and asked for an extension for their destruction into 2011. Not all the Mustard Gas was destroyed back in 2004 as you state.

Do a search for OPCW and Libya. Libya was a signatory to the treaty.

'The Executive Council of the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which met from 3 to 6 May 2011, expressed its concern over the chemical weapons stockpiles in the Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, particularly regarding their security and destruction within the established deadlines.
“I have reminded the Libyan Government of its international obligation to meet its destruction deadlines, and I have also reiterated to the National Authority that the responsibility for the physical security of those chemical weapons rests entirely with the Libyan Government,” the Director-General, Ambassador Ahmet Üzümcü, said in his opening statement at the Executive Council.'

So yes there was still a Mustard Gas stockpile in Libya as of 2011.

September 8, 2011 at 6:00 pm |

Mike

I'm not a republican or democrat..I have no affiliation. So as an outsider looking at both parties the democrats are the most abusive, hostile and ignorant people I've ever seen. They love using terms like HITLER..TEA BAGGER....TERRORIST, they never offer any talking points with substance they just resort to name calling and threats. They are also the masters of the double standard. They act like a group of unruly school children behind the craziest person I ever saw in a powerful political position, Joe Biden.

Dang, Mike, I wondering where you're getting that opinion. Maybe from Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck or O'Reilly? The vitriol from the Republicans is as bad as anything our republic has seen in our 225 year history. Just watch the debate tonight and listen to your heroes (don't pretend that you're not a Republican) and then come back here and tell me that they are not as bad or worse than the Dems. Be real.

Perfect example of what happens when you have a Community Organizer in the position as Commander in Chief, who refuses to listen to those in the military that know what the hell they're doing, who leads from behind and outsources this "non-war" to allies who don't have the capabilities that our military does. How many of those missiles will end up being targeted at our aircraft in Afgan, or worse yet, outside the fence at JFK airport? I have nothing against Mr. Obama as a man, but as a leader, he is daft, disconnected and dilusional. All of which will cost us dearly in the long run.

And what does this have to do with Obama? The National Transitional Council in Libya is responsible for the security of these weapons depots, not the US. Allies provided air cover and strike capabilities, not ground forces, which would have been required for such "guard duty". No one wanted ground troops committed to this effort, so it is rather disingenuous to blame Obama for something nobody wanted any way. The Right can't have it both ways. Otherwise, they just look like a bunch of tools.

Let's see, I believe that it was an actor who was the Commander in Chief in the 80s when 240 Marines were blown up at our base in Lebanon. And, I'm pretty sure it was a Texas oil guy and draft dodger running the military in 2001 when the Twin Towers and the Pentagon were attacked. I'm wondering if Jackson was concerned about those presidents? Somehow I'm guessing that Jackson didn't mind those guys being CIC.

The reality is that the US should stop trying to make primitive, tribal countries transform into US style democracies. It's not going to happen and every time we mess around in another part of the world (regardless of the party of the president), we just make things worse.

Every morther is a whoman bet not every whoman that is a morther.Why should Gaddafi send some of his family out libya and he won't his loyalis to fight to ded.let Gaddafi bring back his family to libya and all of tham should fight to ded if he calls him self a camp,if not his loyalis should drop there gon to NTC.

what are the odds that the CIA and al qaeda are behiund the rebel revolt in libya to start with? i have a feeling that somewhere down the road documents will surface implicating just that and once again the american people will find themselves being played again.

I could see why Al Qaeda would want to oust a semi-stable non-Islamic government, but what exactly would we stand to gain from it? If you say oil it just proves the point you have no idea what you're typing

OMG,I didn't blame the NTC,but I don't understand the Mission of CIA,M16 and NATO, is mission completed or are they have a blind EYE,wow not only the Missiles what about a lot of armored vecheiles crossing the border 3x to Niger. God Bless Libya, is there any information about the Mustards??????????
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CNN's Security Clearance examines national and global security, terrorism and intelligence, as well as the economic, military, political and diplomatic effects of it around the globe, with contributions from CNN's national security team in Washington and CNN journalists around the world.