I'm not at all sure you could've won (understatement), but there were things you could do. I think sticking with the platemail for too long was an issue considering your god options, finding Taurog tat late was really misfortunate, but you could've really used the TT potions to great effect. Also picking up Tiki's Edge Earlier, with converting a few items, would've let you use the popcorn for greater benefits, so Yendor could've been used to greater effect. Getting rid of the Platemail would also mean you can get use of GETINDARE, and all that.

Heh, I think we might just have to agree to disagree; I actually think the second video is a perfect example of why scumming is a good thing. Spending a full hour on a run that was becoming more and more doomed with each move just isn't much fun for me. In my mind, a heroic loss is still a loss, and a sneaky win is still a win. (There are more than gameplay reasons why I prefer Rogues and Assassins.) A Tinker can in fact beat Namtar and can do so without even needing your own incredible luck ( ); it's just that the % chance of winning any particular attempt, even with near-optimal play, is much lower than 100%. Abandoning attempts that have a sufficiently low % chance so that I can focus my effort on the attempts that have a higher % chance is just a way of using my time efficiently.

(Granted, my first video wasn't such a great example since my first "good" dungeon turned to be a "great" one with an insta GG, PISORF, easy high-level monsters, etc. I would have happily taken a dungeon with, say, a JJ altar at the 25% revealed mark and made a go of it. But I think I'm going to move on from Namtar for now.)

dislekcia wrote:I like these - the sound quality in your second video is much better

Two things:1) q_3, your videos are amazing; I learned so many things from watching you play in that video that were lost on me from the annotated playthroughs...in fact, within an hour or so of watching your video...

Success! First Vicious Dungeon ever! (and without the lucky dodges ) Which brings me to2) as I'm taking screenshots, Firefox crashes. Before I got to the Kingdom screen. Start DD back up and: No Treasure for my locker, no gold in my vault, no credit for beating the dungeon. Given that if there's a crash any other time we get "credit" by losing our prep gold, etc, it seems kinda lame that it doesn't save dungeon completion at the "Victory" screen...

Heck, I learned from watching your video's, but I was a bit freaked out because of all the times I complain about something and someone shows up with "oh, it's fine, I beat it purist". When I see a comment like that, I don't exactly think it's supposed to mean "oh, it's fine because 2% of the existing content can beat it", I think someone's telling me that I'm missing something. Then I feel like I need to go and reevaluate my strategy, look at the big picture, see what I've missed.

But when it turns out that it ment "it's fine because you can beat it with a GG rogue / zombie gold BM / cb Wizard / trisword whatever" - it makes me go "Hell, no! I knew that, you can't balance around that stuff!". Now I didn't go on about NL in my playthrough notes for no reason - it's really, really hard compared to other places, and being able to beat it with that sort of cheezy stuff doesn't justify it's power level for various reasons. Nor does it's existance justify the huge power gap between those things and all the other stuff. You can actually play this game like a very fun, very even expirience with nice increments of difficulty and if you do NL last - BAM - suddenly you're either knee deep in cheeze or knee deep in sh*t, your call.

And it's not like you don't have anything to teach people who don't know stuff that you do - that's exactly the thing. Make more vids, do a round around other VICIOUS, don't limit yourself to purist. If you want to show of a crazy combo - show it off. Who cares about badges? "Showing" people how to get them this way is the least thing someone can learn from your play...

Congratulations! I promise I'll branch out to other vicious dungeons next. Hopefully Lujo won't scold me too much for my cheap tactics. There should be some awfully silly Assassin shenanigans in future entries.

Lujo wrote:And it's not like you don't have anything to teach people who don't know stuff that you do - that's exactly the thing. Make more vids, do a round around other VICIOUS, don't limit yourself to purist. If you want to show of a crazy combo - show it off. Who cares about badges? "Showing" people how to get them this way is the least thing someone can learn from your play...

Actually, one of the reasons I mostly play purist is that I just use preps so rarely that I'm really no good at playing with them. They add a bunch of new elements to the game that I have a hard time figuring out how to combo well. I'd personally really like to see some prep-heavy videos for the truly mindbendingly difficult dungeons (although at the moment that's mostly just the Tower, isn't it?).

Also, this isn't really meant as a teaching exercise - though I'm pleased if people can learn from it - and more for entertainment purposes only. And of course I can't do non-purist, non-vicious playthroughs, they're both right in the title of the thread!

edit: was really hoping you'd do the PISORF + Bear Mace on Blah Blah but then you converted PISORF and I was sad. He was basically in the perfect position to be knocked along that backwards L shaped section then into the huge column in the middle. FYI, knockback counters blink as long as the enemy actually moves (into a wall or empty square).