You can read straight romances or sexual ones. You can watch films and TV. You can listen to the soft words of your parents, ‘Daddy’s little princess’, but the blunt truth is, most little girls do not end up marrying rich men. So why do we perpetuate this myth?

*warning*

This rest of this post is mildly sexual in content and may put you off your breakfast/lunch/supper, depending on where you are in the world.

Like many others, I haven’t read Fifty Shades of Grey. This isn’t out of sexual prudishness, but rather that I tend not to read the flavour of the month books. So I haven’t read The Hunger Games whatever they are, I only read Twilight and a Potter book when they appeared in one of my free book bags.

I actually thought Fifty Shades was quite a literary novel for some reason. Probably the title. When I initially heard about it nobody mentioned BDSM.

Eventually, ie a few weeks ago, I ‘looked inside’ on Amazon and it was so riveting (not) that I can’t remember a thing about what I read.

However, I have read other BDSM books. I’m not for a minute going to profess to know anything about the lifestyle so please put aside images of a) Roughseas dressed in a (fake) leather corset and thigh-high boots brandishing a whip, and b) Roughseas naked and chained/tied to the bed submitting to the Dom of her dreams. The only thing I know is that everything should be safe, sane and consensual, which seems a good idea to me. And therefore what consenting adults get up to together is their business alone. Or is it?

However, back to reading the books. Some of the BDSM books are total tat. They are poorly written and either not edited at all or badly edited or someone’s sister or reading group had proofread it. Others are much better. The sexuality comes not from the tedious descriptions of the sexual acts but from the interplay between the main couple in the story. All the ones I have read have been heterosexual, and the books have invariably been written by women. They are basically romance books with some graphic sex added.

And of course, the relationship starts out as purely sexual with Mr Cold and Handsome not being interested in soppy stuff, just having a really good fuck and being totally in charge.

Rather than fifty shades of plot, there only seems to be one. The Dom is always tall, dark and handsome with tight muscles, a wonderful arse, and a huge cock. I lie. Occasionally he is fair-haired.

Clearly none of these Doms took part in the recent survey of penis size which said the average length was 3.5 inches or something. Oh, here you go:

The enduring question now has a scientific answer: 13.12 centimetres (5.16 inches) in length when erect, and 11.66cm (4.6 inches) around, according to an analysis of more than 15,000 penises around the world.

In a flaccid state, it found, the penis of the average man is 9.16cm (3.6 inches) in length and has a girth of 9.31cm (3.7 inches).

Thanks, Guardian. Always good to have this interesting info at ones … fingertips? Let’s hope there aren’t the usual Grauniad errors with those numbers …

But back to the non-plot:

The woman (the sub) either isn’t remotely interested in a D/s relationship and/or she may have a mild interest in it. Handsome Dom is always extremely experienced, incredibly good at sex, and immediately realises our heroine is a natural sub just crying out to be trained. By him.

Skip this next bit if you want to enjoy your boiled egg/lunch/supper.

There is lots of foreplay. It always follows the same pattern, starting with masturbation. And at some point in their foreplay he usually rips off her knickers, gazes at her beautiful arse and says ‘you have a beautiful ass’ (they’re all American, even the odd sexy Brit who appears manages to say ass), and spanks her. Hard.

There is always oral sex. These men love it. Oh and the women are always shaved/waxed. Either fully or almost. No stopping midway through for handsome hero to have a coughing fit on a stray hair. There is no mention of the men being shaved for the other way round though, and the women always swallow. No going ‘yuk, that’s salty’ and spitting it out.

Finally, after twenty orgasms through foreplay for the woman, they have PIV sex when, naturally there are another fifty shades of orgasm. Two very important things to note. 1) the woman is in a permanent state of sexual arousal, and 2) she always has the most fantastic orgasms ever. The man is only interested in her pleasure (???) and he has an impeccable sense of timing.

Sometimes the woman has reached her mid-twenties and is still a virgin. Really? She’s always beautiful, usually with a decent pair of tits, a fit arse, yet she’s gone through school, university, and started her career without one single shag?

If she has had sex it’s not been the mind-blowing sex she gets from her wonderful Mr Best Shag in the World. Either way, she’s def an anal sex virgin. But with the help of our kind and considerate Dom, yes, our no longer an-anal-sex-virgin has yet another wonderful, rather, different, orgasm.

Our submissive heroine is often taken to a club where she gets to see what the experts get up to, although she is only ever tied up, sometimes blindfolded, and always spanked. Nothing heavy.

There we have it really, a quick summary of all the BDSM books that are around at the mo. Invariably part of a series.

Nearly forgot. One other really important sexual attraction. The men are not just millionaires, they are billionaires. Because these days, Cinderellas are going for mega bucks.

And to think Lady Chatterley’s Lover was banned.

However, the serious points about these books are:

Reinforcement of the myth that pretty women being sexually complicit always end up with the handsome rich prince

Women don’t really want a career, just a handsome rich prince (complete with BC) so they can settle down happily ever after in large mansion and have 2.4 kids (plus maids, gardeners, cooks, chauffeurs etc)

Being sweet and innocent always ensures the woman is rescued by the handsome (rich, BC) prince

You have to be beautiful, drop absolutely dead gorgeous to even get a look in for the prince

Now, if that isn’t Cinderella revisited what is?

The same tosh is also churned out minus the sex under the so-called genre of ‘romance’.

But while what people do behind closed doors is one issue, I am worried when it strays into everyday life.

And telling women what to eat ie ordering their meals in restaurants, what to wear, what not to wear, is going off the wall. And it is seriously control freakish when it walks out of the bedroom.

Even worse, when it becomes acceptable in the eyes of the Lord. Because some BDSM blogs do mention this. Because the Lord says women should submit to men? Where and when does religion and sex become so blurred?

When you take sex out of the bedroom, these are mind games you shouldn’t be playing. Especially if you involve silly sky fairies. This stops being about sex. It is about power and control. Ah, wait, perhaps that’s what the whole scenario is about …

It doesn’t matter where you go, the story is always the same. Pretty little girl meets rich handsome prince. And does what he tells her. Bad news people. This is not real life. Princes are few and far between. Sensible women think for themselves.

And it really doesn’t matter whether Kenneth Branagh’s production of Cinderella portrays an active or passive heroine with an extremely narrow waist. The end result is the same. She gets her prince.

When will we stop grooming girls and young women to believe in the delusion that they need to be sexually attractive and complicit princesses to achieve their stinking rich prince? And that they should only concentrate on that one unachievable goal in life?

Here’s a suitable song, Esther has a beautiful voice:

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About roughseasinthemed

I write about my life as an English person living in Spain and Gibraltar, on Roughseas, subjects range from politics and current developments in Gib to book reviews, cooking and getting on with life.
My views and thoughts on a variety of topics - depending on my mood of the day - can be found over on Clouds. A few pix are over on Everypic - although it is not a photoblog.
And of course my dog had his own blog, but most of you knew that anyway. Pippadogblog etc

91 Responses to Fifty shades of … Vanilla Cinderella

This was just awesome. My first post for the day. Kate, you have quite the wit. To add to what you shared, women are socially pressured to be toned, tanned, taut, plucked, and wax. They are also pressured to be free of cellulite, vaginal odor, sweat, gas, menstrual blood, and a host of other so called female ‘problems’ that the commercial industry is insistent on solving.

I recently watched a documentary about the invention of female sex robots. They followed the lives of guys who were either inventing the robots or seeking them out. The two main reasons these guys wanted them was because they wanted to fuck perfect bodies who were completely submissive. These robots also solved the Coolidge Effect, as these men could change out the skin, facial features and hair color. One guy even asked his wife if she would agree to be hypnotized to act like one of these submissive robots.

I was also reminded of the promise to Islam men who get at least 72 submissive virgins with perfect bodies in paradise.

Thank you Victoria. Ruth recently posted about compliments. A comment from you, Ruth, Sonel, Violet (in strict alph order there, and I should prob add more recent pals such as Hariod and MMGreg)), saying you understand my point is a compliment, because it is peer evaluation. I suppose I should strive for a sensible comment from ones who don’t understand, but I know it aint going to happen.

Wit? Depends on your POV (not PIV in this case, those letters are tooooo close together). I had to tone down the post, as I’d written it a lot more graphically, suppose I should have made it passworded like Professor does.

I started this post two months ago. What made me finish it was reading a ‘romance’ by a man that bought into even more crap than books by women. Gah! It was vomit-inducing. But, it still perpetuates crap. First book I have ever had the guts to give two stars on Amazon. Not actually for the content, but the poor writing and lack of editing. However the concept of princesses made me finish this post.

Spooky documentary. What is with this obsession with submission? It’s beginning to feel like a total superiority complex from men, and that as a species we are just regressing into some sci-fi world.

Oh, you are so spot on and it’s got my brain fired up, lol. I grew up with this belief. It was nurtured in my culture, which was a very religious culture. Even the Bible sends this same message — that women are to be submissive in bed and out. Conservative churches teach that women should give their husbands sex on demand whether the women feels in the mood or not. But I digress. After reading your post, I was reminded of the Cinderella Complex, so was reading an article about it.

Alice Eagly, a psychology professor at Northwestern University, said in that society gives mixed messages about gender, but that dependency on men seems to be the more traditional message than being independent from men.

Mary Fraser, Ph.D., a psychology instructor said she thinks women are traditionally taught that men make decisions and have more power than women.

“And then we’ve got the whole Disney thing, where Prince Charming will come and save the day,” Fraser said.

Fraser also states that there is a division between the smart and the pretty girl.

“We can’t do both, evidently,” Fraser said. “And if you are both, then you’re universally hated by both men and women; women because they’re jealous of you, and men because they don’t know what to do with you.” She said that a woman “who is living up to her potential is often cast aside or becomes a social outcast.”

Fraser further states:

“The Beauty Myth: How Images of Beauty are Used Against Women,” by Naomi Wolf, is more of a modern, updated take and continuation of The Cinderella Complex.

I’m glad I broke out of that social conditioning. By the time I was 19, I had secured a good job and independent living some 2000 miles away from my family and a very religious culture that, IMO, promoted, nurtured and encouraged the Cinderella Syndrome.

To some extent I was brought up with the whole concept too, but not from a religious perspective, which just goes to show how it exists everywhere, with or without religion, because the conditioning filters out through insidious tentacles.

You won’t be surprised to know that I did read around about the Cinderella thing before I published this post. I like to check 🙂 but, my point was, it’s very simple. Pretty girl meets rich person and lives happily ever after. No. It. Don’t. Happen. Like. That.

How many times do we need to say this? A woman gains independence by gaining economic worth. Preferably not selling herself for sex or pornography. After all, we are capable of other things aren’t we? Cleaning for example? (although not in my case).

I’ll be honest, sure the Cinders myth is nice. But it isn’t true. Handsome rich prince does not sweep your average woman off her feet to live in luxury. Statistically it is flawed as there aren’t enough rich princes.

Journalists are class at never letting the facts get in the way of the story, but not enough rich princes to go around is an awfully big one, hence, possibly darlings, we may need to adjust our expectations. So, why can’t we debunk the Cinders myth?

Kate, this is such an interesting topic. I was also thinking about the story of Jesus, how he is considered a prince, a king, and a bridegroom who will come for his bride — a bride who is spotless, pure, perfect, submissive and obedient. He will wisp them off to a paradise where there will be great wealth, jewels, streets of gold, flowing honey and mansions for each of his brides. When we start to dig into this subject, we can see just how much this myth has permeated society with the conditioning (through fantasy movies, etc) beginning at very young ages.

Oops, lost my earlier reply, sorry, V, wasn’t ignoring you. You know the religious version far better than I ever will, or even have any inclination to know it, but yes, the brides of Christ parallel is an interesting one. Although given that Jesus recommended the whole poverty, eschewing riches thing, there might be a slight contradiction there … no, silly me, there couldn’t possibly be.

Ah, no wonder I stand no chance of meeting a nice (single ) lady if they’ve all beggared off looking for rich Princes to marry. I don’t satisfy on monetary grounds, don’t satisfy on the grounds of being a Prince and so far haven’t indulged in BDSM. I wondered where I was going wrong.
xxx Huge Hugs Kate xxx

Absolutely superb writing- but more so, superb thinking.
These points are hammered so deeply, people don’t normally realize what’s going on.
I know a Welshman who is entirely convinced his partner’s planet cannot (should not) turn without his input. His parents were born in the 20’s; his sense of male princely authority does not waver and he doesn’t even see it. That’s the reason for the success of 50 shades. Most people are conditioned to general concept, infuriating as it is to those of us who know what it means.

Thank you. In terms of the writing, I cut out the X-rated parts (the lube, the probes, the plugs etc) I realise not everyone is comfortable with reading about sex. Sadly. And my main point wasn’t actually about sex, it was about indoctrination as you clearly worked out.

I think it would be nice to have been born with rich white male cis privilege, but I wasn’t. So there we go. I manage two out of four. The two of the least worth. Hence why the Cinderella myth is such an absolute disaster.

Kate, you have ruined my breakfast this Sunday morning and now I have to go to church to help myself.
I am sympathetic to anyone waiting/ searching for the ideal Mr/s Right and or those who dream that some men have johns so long they wind them around their waists.

Search me. I think he was mainlining let alone smoking. On the character assessment scale I think he scored minus 10. At the best. It doesn’t take too much to read around the Internet and work out I am not a potential convert. But, see, now he’s worked that out, I’m no longer persona grata. I’m starting to get the shirty treatment. In fact, I’ve been accused of being complicitous with Ark! How to ruin a woman’s reputation in one swift and evil comment. I hang my head in sad and extremely sinful shame.

Thanks. It could have been worse. I could have been linked with John or Arch. Or even you! Hell hath no whatever like a woman linked with evil men … these men are evil. Liars. Etc etc. meanwhile I really must reply to my Christian sister who has so far called me smug, self-righteous, condescending, naive, and ‘dear’. Oh and delusional. Almost forgot she called me mad. Have to dash and thank her for her thoughtful insight.

This is a fair critique of “mainstream” BDSM literature written for the brave blossoming closet-kinksters. 🙂

As you might have known and as you’ve recently gotten to know me (and introductory BDSM), the actual real-life S.S.C. BDSM diverges from the mainstream. I would like to know what books you’ve read. I may have one or two to recommend, maybe, aside from my own actual first-hand 24-years experience in the lifestyle…which is not published. Most of the BDSM’ers I am around and in contact with have none of their experience published. For reasons you can imagine, our art-form (at least in the bible-belt of the U.S.) is very similar to actual art, i.e. art isn’t overly structured or standardized. Otherwise, people’s interpretations of “art” would always fall into predictable categories and boxes. Yet, since the sexual revolutions of the 1950s and 60s, sex and its practices educationally (including BDSM) are still in their adolescence for the general public as well as those authors writing about it, BDSM especially given its popular public reactions of premature suspicion by outsiders. It might be fair to say BDSM is the newest-youngest of sex sub-genres “coming out” in society. Hence, good/great ACCURATE BDSM literature is likely hard to find?

Thank you. As I’ve said, I don’t have sufficient knowledge to comment on the lifestyle. My post was more about how the books are written to a prescriptive formula, even down to how they all have sex in exactly the same way, and how each action is carried out in exactly the same order. There are only so many times you can read that which is why the personal interaction is of more interest.

I read the offers on BookBub and readcheaply. There have probably been about three that I thought were interesting. Not from the sexual perspective, but, as before, from the relationship angle.

However, what gripes me is that the plot for these books is no different to any other. Beautiful poor girl meets rich prince = Cinderella. This does not happen for 99.9 % of people in real life.

Then, I am concerned re BDSM messages about the impact on women and the concept of submission. I’ve discussed this separately elsewhere with both you and Victoria. However as you have basically said, (and I’ll take your word for it) the portrayal of Grey in Fifty is of an abuser. While it does the BDSM community no favours, my concern is that it reinforces abusive stereotypes that women want to be abused. That is also my general concern about the gradations of BDSM, eg 24/7 domination, that it can be damaging to women.

And adding a little spanking and anal sex to the Cinderella myth doesn’t change the basic untrue message. It’s just a twist on the same old variant.

Have to say though, I prefer reading about SSC BDSM than graphic crime novels where people have their eyes ripped out or bodily parts hacked off all while still alive. Now, that, to me, is seriously sick.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment to someone who knows zilch about the subject without ripping me to shreds. Thank you for the lessons. After all, you are the Professor 🙂

Everything you’ve stated in your reply Roughseas I cannot argue. In fact, it may surprise you a little that in “real-life” S.S.C. BDSM there is proportionally little PIV or sexual penetrations compared to the plethora of other activities and stimulation that occur throughout the evening in a public dungeon. 🙂

As a warning though Roughseas, also in those dungeons or in proper S.S.C. BDSM privately, humiliation is one kink that is played out — it is also not gender-specific, but role/character specific. As a Top humiliation is not a part of my repertoire or preferences or kinks — which partly explains more why I am a Top and not a Dom.

Yes, it does surprise me in one sense, although, thinking about it, perhaps not so much.

The humiliation aspect has me squirming though. One book I read said the idea was never to humiliate, which seemed reasonable. Women have enough daily humiliation as it is! Which is why I’m interested in learning more vis-a-vis feminism, and to look at the two together, because it seems very suggestive of the porn/prostituion debate.

As a complete sidenote to our comments Roughseas, but for those readers here curious about proper S.S.C. BDSM — not the fictional erroneous E.L. James version and many others — most all BDSM’ers I know will always suggest for Newbies, the curious, or dabblers, I/we consider a must for BDSM 101:

Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism by Philip Miller and Molly Devon. E.L. James probably has no clue about this book because she has NEVER been to a legal public dungeon, nor has she ever participated for one minute in any S.S.C. BDSM activity. Yet, look at what her ficticious writings pander to.

As you’d imagine, BDSM isn’t a subject publishing houses are frantically seeking out to generate revenues, unless it’s complete fiction and panders to shallow mediocrity ala E.L. James. 😛 Perhaps then the (unedited?) book won’t be your cup-of-tea. But if I were you I’d decide that for yourself being the independent feminist you are. 😉 ❤

Well I think fiction has its place if it portrays a good and fair image of BDSM. So, for example, in one book I read, there was an experienced but selfish, thoughtless irresponsible Dom. And, the book pointed this out by saying why, which I found really instructive. I mean it was fairly clear he was a tosser, but it was explained clearly why he hadn’t behaved in an SSC way.

I found one that said it was free to download but I needed to sign up etc. and truth is, I’ve no spare time atm.

As I said, part of my interest is the potential clash with feminism regarding female subs and taking the Dom concept outside scenes.

When you take sex out of the bedroom, these are mind games you shouldn’t be playing. Especially if you involve silly sky fairies. This stops being about sex. It is about power and control. Ah, wait, perhaps that’s what the whole scenario is about …

Um….yes. Exactly this. Yes, the Bible does say that women are to be submissive to men…in everything. It does not say that the men must dominate the women unless she’s a gossip or tries to talk in church. Then it’s perfectly okay. I digress..

Probably TMI,but hell, you’ve read the rest of my story. This one sentence right here is what turns me off to BDSM. Because I haven’t experienced it in a positive way I now don’t even care to. It’s not about one bad experience. It’s about tennish(probably a few more) years of bad experience. The way I experienced it was definitely not healthy and thus I’m just not interested. I don’t know that much about the “lifestyle” but my own personal experience was just…not good. It was one of power and control inside and outside the bedroom. Though as I understand it, properly practiced, a woman can just as easily be the dom and the man the sub, totally flipping the traditional roles on their heads.

Having said that I can see where practiced in a healthy way, the way I’m assuming it’s meant to be practiced, people might enjoy it and feel a closer bond. But this, as you called it, Cinderella finds her Prince Charming and does everything he asks or wants – everything to suit him – is really not a positive image of what SSC BDSM is.

Thank you Ruth. But to be practical, I miss posts all the time. Shit happens and so does life.

I’ve now got this image of you as an evil, gossiping church-talker 😀

I think there are a lot of issues wrapped up in this post, and I did keep it relatively short (for me). But to me, the main ones are:

1) perpetuating the poor pretty girl meets rich man myth, and trades sex for money. (However you look at it)
2) the confusion about power, control, and sex
3) the mixed messages about BDSM and a lack of understanding about it, I’ll include myself in that

Probably, what means most for me, is combining all this lot into one results in a powerful package that continues to put women down in society and reinforce a submissive, sexual role as a pleasure object.

Yes, I know your story. Mental abuse inside or outside the bedroom is unhealthy. Consistent abuse is domestic violence. I’m sorry I never thought to put a trigger alert. I’ve not been there and I’m remiss in not thinking about that.

My problem with porn, prostitution and BDSM, is that they are fine in theory, fine between consenting adults SSC etc. But when the edges blur (as they do) and exploitation of women creeps in, then I worry. Do all women really want their nipples clamped? Maybe some do, but maybe others don’t. This all feels like a very fine line between victim blaming, shaming and depersonalising the individual. And yes, there are Domme/sub relationships, or so I read. However, we live in a patriarchal society (based on our nice friendly religions) and the automatic assumption is Dom/sub.

And my biggest point over and above the current interest in BDSM, is that the myths remain the same. However they are dressed up. Or undressed.

Well, of course, I agree with everything you’ve written here. I wonder how much many females who are subs really resign themselves to that role in BDSM because of patriarchal indoctrination. They find themselves wanting to be the object of the dom because that’s what society says is the norm.

Yes, indeed. There is many a hardworking man who, regardless of his partners financial status, want to be regarded as the “breadwinner” the “hero”, the “rescuer” of the poor little damsel in distress.

Oddly, I was reading something today that said just that. What actual choices do women make, and to what extent are their choices (heavily) conditioned? I read a great blog post today that I must link to. Someone whose writing I normally dislike but this post was good in terms of nitty gritty feminism. And unapologetic.

Sadly this Cinders never found her Prince. He doesnt give a shit who earns the money so long as someone does. And he’s making the bed atm so who am I to moan?

Women have to deal with enough pain, so it’s beyond me why they would want to inflict more.This is the part of BDSM that is hard for me to wrap my brain around even when I read the psychological studies. According to these studies, when they have this pain inflicted on them they go into an alter state of consciousness. I can think of better ways of achieving this. 😉

Btw, did you ever watch House? Dr. House had a really bad leg injury that apparently caused nerve damage, but he also had an addiction to pain meds. So while he was “dying out”, he inflicted pain on himself to produce dopamine, as dopamine helped him manage his pain. I think BDSM is about dopamine. Lots and lots of dopamine. The DOMs get it by playing the controlling alpha role, and the subs get it by having pain inflicted upon them.

I agree with Ruth that because of the culture and traditional gender roles we were raised it, I find it interesting that people (women) actually get off on being submissive in the BDSM lifestyle.

This is the part of BDSM that is hard for me to wrap my brain around even when I read the psychological studies. According to these studies, when they have this pain inflicted on them they go into an alter state of consciousness. I can think of better ways of achieving this. 😉

Well, they think they are having good sex, of some type, don’t they?
I did group TM for a while. We were in a seedy run-down hotel, sitting in the dark in a nothing atmosphere. Minutes later, I was somewhere else. The weight on my shoulders I didnt know I had just floated off, and it was surreal. Nearly as good as the morphine in hospital.
Couldn’t do yoga before I broke my ankle!

Some of the studies showed that women have an increase in physiological stress, but a decrease in psychological stress when playing the role of a sub. From Psychology today:

“We found this disconnect between psychological stress and physiological stress to be very interesting, and we wondered whether it might indicate that bottoms have entered an altered state of consciousness.

To test this theory, we ran a study in which we randomly assigned switches (BDSM practitioners who sometimes take on the top role and sometimes take on the bottom role) to be the top or the bottom in a scene (Ambler et al., under review). The results revealed that both bottoms and tops entered altered states of consciousness, but they entered different altered states.

Bottoms entered an altered state called “transient hypofrontality” (Dietrich, 2003), which is associated with reductions in pain, feelings of floating, feelings of peacefulness, feelings of living in the here and now and time distortions. Tops, in contrast, entered the altered state known as “flow” (Csikszentmihalyi, 1991), which is associated with focused attention, a loss of self-consciousness and optimal performance of a task. We believe that these pleasurable altered states of consciousness might be one of the motivations that people have for engaging in BDSM activities.”

I do NOT want someone to inflict pain on me and I especially don’t want someone dominating me. Religion was the main reason I am totally turned off by this. Been there done that. It’s NOT fun. Seems to me that those who get off on this lifestyle have to go to more extremes to get the same benefit as couples who have non-BDSM experiences that produce the same or similar symptoms. Kinda like getting addicted to drugs — you have to take more to get the same high. It could be that people who get into this have fewer dopamine receptors, or they are simply adrenaline junkies. *waves to the professor* 😀

Nevertheless, I agree with Kate, there seems to be a strong indoctrination in our society (especially in media) perpetuating this belief that being beautiful and finding a so-called prince will afford you happiness forever after. Sadly, they never take into account the Coolidge Effect. Your prince may be into you now, but he will most likely be “into” someone else sooner than you think.

Bottoms entered an altered state called “transient hypofrontality” (Dietrich, 2003), which is associated with reductions in pain, feelings of floating, feelings of peacefulness, feelings of living in the here and now and time distortions.

Why am I equating this with dissociation? Something painful is happening so in my mind I go to my happy place. Interesting.

Nevertheless, I agree with Kate, there seems to be a strong indoctrination in our society (especially in media) perpetuating this belief that being beautiful and finding a so-called prince will afford you happiness forever after. Sadly, they never take into account the Coolidge Effect. Your prince may be into you now, but he will most likely be “into” someone else sooner than you think.

Absolutely which was my point about women who are subs possibly thinking they are choosing that role when it’s possible that they’ve been conditioned for that role.

Disassociation is an interesting concept, and a very valid one, I suspect. One book I read had a woman totally destroyed by ‘punishment’ by an abuser, and yet, in her out-of-it state she consented to yet more sex. Another person described it as rape because she wasn’t in control (ie in her happy place so everything was good). Very dangerous scenarios.

To me, the issue, is that becoming a sub, for a woman, is portrayed as being very sexual. Maybe it is, but, oh, what is it buying into? … I’d be interested to know how many Doms/subs have never been religious, and how many are aware of patriarchy/feminism.

Where would I be without you? A report at your fingertips. I would get bored even looking, but you pull out the exactly appropriate one 🙂

I dunno about much of this. I cant speak about religion or BDSM. What I want to speak about is imagery, and how it damages women in society overall. And, yes, *waves to professor* too because this isn’t criticising people or a lifestyle, the bottom (wrong choice of word) line is that much of the imagery and conceptions end up damaging women.

Well, I think to some extent that’s what is interesting. Where does (good) physical and mental sex meet? Ie, the whole power control thing?

And why is someone getting off on inflicting pain and someone else accepting that make it remotely sexual?

But maybe it is. Just not something I’ve got involved with. Again, I’m also happy to state my ignorance. Two ways of looking at it: you don’t know if you havent tried it, and you might not want to try it. Both are valid, or should be …

Two ways of looking at it: you don’t know if you havent tried it, and you might not want to try it. Both are valid, or should be …

Exactly. I’m really not very concerned with being educated about it because I’m not interested in it. Which brings me to the question: what would be the purpose of trying to make people aware of it and/or making it mainstream? In fact when Madalyn said something over on my post about society being more inclusive so that these niche groups wouldn’t need to exist, exactly what would that look like? How do you make BDSM more inclusive? Either you’re into it or you’re not.

Well I’m interested because I’m nosy and because I’m concerned about the impact on feminism. And if overall it’s detrimental to women, then, lots of publicity about submissive women aint a good thing. Even if some women say it’s great. Because once I read that the Lord tells me to obey and submit to my husband 24 hours of the day, then I see very manipulative, bad, disrespectful behaviour. To say the least.

Is making it inclusive an issue? Or is it about not ostracising people? Again, do we add porn and prostitution?

Anyway, I’m not sure of the value of inclusivity. I’m too busy worrying about sexism and abuse of animals to add thos one to my list.

I read a Brit crime story, not even remotely BDSM, not only did she have something huge clamping her nipples, she had great big darning pins in them too. ‘He likes titties’ she explained!!

Isn’t that subspace? Or so I read? I knew I should have accepted the morphine after the ankle op though. Settled for tramadol and paracetamol. And I knew how good morphine was from before.

I didnt see House. Me and TV no combina. The only think I would say is that dopamine is theoretically natural, although I’ll let you comment about the effects of an excess of it. So morphine sends you out of it, beautifully, and do you want to go there again? Oh yes. So if XS dope (?!) has the same effect …

I think you are both right. Women see it as being sexy, without even realising the conditioning that gives us this perspective. Although, telling me what to wear and what to eat would most likely result in a slap from me.

There little that can be added to either your comment or those of others here.
So tired of the Cinderella thing. Lovely story, but it’s a story – not an image desirable for life
What bothers me is all the moms pushing this image, the princess dresses in stores, the “Princess parties” for very young girls – it is everywhere and endless. It is grooming.
Like you, it’s not as much as what the book (by a man) is about, it’s that so many feel peer pressure concerning it. It’s not only adults that will use the book as a pattern and a guide (they are grown ups and can do as they wish), it’s the very young girls and boys with little life experiences who are reading and seeing the movie. Peer pressure and trying to be cool. Kids have enough issues to deal with – now this “popular” book/movie.
Terrible message for girls/women. (and for writers – when this badly written on a hot topic does so well)

It’s a fairy story. But to encourage kids to believe in fairy stories, and then to perpetuate that as adults is more than silly. Sure, I’d like to meet the rich handsome prince of my dreams, but I’m realistic and accept that the not rich man I’ve known for thirty years is pretty good.

And, thank you for pointing out Cinderella was written by a man. Well, in the past most stories were, and women had to take pseudonyms.

I think you have more princess syndrome in your country, but as the flaws of America creep across the world, I do hope the whole princess shebang doesnt stray across the Atlantic. It’s like proms and cheerleaders and the whole beauty myth image. Sickening.

As for the film, I read some early reviews that slated it for the narrow waist of Cinders. But no, said the team, she’s a strong character. Yeah. Right. The story’s the same however you portray it. Downtrodden kid gets plucked from the scrap heap by rich man because of her looks. Duh. Heard that one before …

Your first 2 sentences pretty well sum it up. Kids should read fairy tales – from original their sources – not Hollywood or “PC modern versions – and folk tales/folklore from many many countries. Easier to see it’s all fiction and make believe?
Adults should stop shoving their unrealistic dreams/disappointment with their own lives on kids.
To many mixed messages – maybe that’s why women can’t get along and are constantly hacking other women off at the knees…while men laugh at the joke they’ve pulled off?

As you mentioned Cinders author was a man, what about Hans and the Grimm Bros? And all rather dark. On the other hand you could read many other skits, the wonderful German one that tells of what evils may befall if you do naughty things. I can look the name up, a German ancestry friend introduced me to him, Peter something I think.

But fairy tales are fables, allegories. Then there is mythology. ie what came before christianity … where is the difference though?

Old Fairy tales, myths, and folk tales from around the world – early versions of horror/slasher movies? German ones are especially grim…some say it has to do with the climate and terrain where the Greeks had such a milder climate/less struggle to survive. Good places to start learning geography, history, environment as well as social structure – cause and effect.
If they are going to read Disney Princess dribble, they need to read other things, too as a balance…but too many moms want to be able to brag able their “pretty pretty princesses” and show them off. Like the neighbor kid – who was a bright child when young, but by 1st grade was going to tanning salons/mani-pedi Mother Daughter events and announced “I don’t have to do good in school. I’m pretty.” Great.

Yes, agree on the grim (Grimm?) German ones. Parts of Greece have a pretty tough climate but I guess they really put their mark on heaven, complete with nectar and ambrosia (not rice pudding).

I think you’ve told me before about your country’s crazy princess beauty parade obsession. Did I mention a whacky film I saw about it? May have done. The mother was going for all out murder so her daughter could be chosen most beautiful whatever. Gah. I think I saw it in hospital. One reason why I read books and didn’t watch television.

Having said that, years ago, my first schoolfriend’s dad said, ‘as long as she has a pretty face and good legs, she’ll be all right’. She did have a pretty face actually.

The Norse myths are pretty harsh, too. No wimps. Celtics? Irish tales are pretty cool. Real storytellers
I avoid all the pageant type shows and stuff – just too bizarre. They were more fun when they had odd talent show stuff like flaming batons – some of them really had to search for a talent skill. (The actually talented ones with violins/pianos never seem to win – just being onstage with the others would be embarrassing.) No doubt there is a film like that – a funny one was “Little Miss Sunshine” about a talentless kid and her kooky family’s road trip to a pageant.
Pretty young girls – better grab one before the beauty fades. That natural selection process give the pretty ones an edge?

“What I want to speak about is imagery, and how it damages women in society overall.”

Kate. I’m going to start a new thread since this comment is lengthy.
This is from the New York Times magazine — the article is quite lengthy so here are a few excerpts:

To call princesses a “trend” among girls is like calling Harry Potter a book. Sales at Disney Consumer Products, which started the craze six years ago by packaging nine of its female characters under one royal rubric, have shot up to $3 billion, globally, this year, from $300 million in 2001. There are now more than 25,000 Disney Princess items. “Princess,” as some Disney execs call it, is not only the fastest-growing brand the company has ever created; they say it is on its way to becoming the largest girls’ franchise on the planet.

“There are no studies proving that playing princess directly damages girls’ self-esteem or dampens other aspirations. On the other hand, there is evidence that young women who hold the most conventionally feminine beliefs — who avoid conflict and think they should be perpetually nice and pretty — are more likely to be depressed than others and less likely to use contraception.”

““Playing princess is not the issue,” argues Lyn Mikel Brown, an author, with Sharon Lamb, of “Packaging Girlhood: Rescuing Our Daughters From Marketers’ Schemes.” “The issue is 25,000 Princess products,” says Brown, a professor of education and human development at Colby College. “When one thing is so dominant, then it’s no longer a choice: it’s a mandate, cannibalizing all other forms of play. There’s the illusion of more choices out there for girls, but if you look around, you’ll see their choices are steadily narrowing.”

The author initially starts out talking about how her daughter is being inundated with the Princess myth, even in the dentist office. She closes with:

“Maybe Princess is the first salvo in what will become a lifelong struggle over her body image, a Hundred Years’ War of dieting, plucking, painting and perpetual dissatisfaction with the results. Or maybe it isn’t. I’ll never really know. In the end, it’s not the Princesses that really bother me anyway. They’re just a trigger for the bigger question of how, over the years, I can help my daughter with the contradictions she will inevitably face as a girl, the dissonance that is as endemic as ever to growing up female. Maybe the best I can hope for is that her generation will get a little further with the solutions than we did.

Kate, I bought into it all myself. I starved myself through my younger years starting at age 11, trying to live up to an unrealistic ideal. I spent years in the gym. No figure, no man was pounded in me by society. I finally said — “fuck that noise”. I don’t maintain my figure for any man, women or society. I maintain it for me — for health reasons.

I was lucky. I could eat as much as I wanted (didn’t include dessert/sweets particularly) and didn’t put on an ounce. I’ve always been hyper hyper. A year’s inactivity following my op has left me my heaviest yet, but I’m still well within BMI crap and less than Marilyn Monroe. I can fill my bra now!

I’d like to lose a few kilos because I’ve had a skinny life, but if not, c’est la vie. I can hardly cut out chocolate, sugar, sweets, soft drinks, biscuits, desserts, ice cream etc.

Can’t bear gyms. Tooooooo boring. I am useless at automated exercise. But give me the outdoors to walk or cycle in, and the sea to swim in … 🙂

Bwhahahahha! I started giggling at the beginning of your post (Vanilla Cinderella) and burst out in laughter when I came to the huge cock and where you admit you’re lying. LOL! I was screaming by the time I had to read the survey of the penis size. Tears were streaming down my face. I was howling with laughter. I must go and check if my house spiders haven’t fled. It was hilarious!

Okay, just when I thought I could take a sip of coffee, I started reading about the foreplay. I had to put the cup down and run outside. I nearly choked. All your fault Kate!

I had to rest a while after that fit of laughter I had. 😀

These women are all so perfect, aren’t they? LOL! What I always find funny in these type of movies is when they jam the woman up against a wall or something and lift them up. I am forever thinking I would kill that guy right there and then! Her back and buttocks a-hole! Are you going to take out those splinters or clean the scrapes? Oh hell, no!

You said it so well Kate. Yeah, they’re always so damn rich and most of the women never seem to work either … unless they’re on their backs of course. Nah! I think I’ll rather go and scrub the floors. LOL!

Great points as well hon. That’s the media for you. Most of the young girls of today still believe there’s a prince out there for them. My ‘princes’ don’t have any girlfriends because they don’t have money or cars and they don’t care because they say they are not going to waste it on girls who only wants a good time or believe in fairy tales. Life is tough and it’s tougher when you’re stupid. Loved the video and very suitable. They should go and read their story as well. They got a divorce in 1970. 😀

I think you must rewrite the whole Cinderella myth Kate. Call your book ‘Vanilla Cinderella’ as well. It will be a best seller for sure! 😀

I think now I can go and enjoy my breakfast and coffee. LOL! Have a wonderful day and ♥ Lots of Hugs and Kisses ♥ to you and the boys. 😀 ♥

I liked the alliteration in Vanilla Cinderella. Sort of like Cinderella Rockafella I spose.

It’s always difficult to decide how far to go with sexual posts. One person’s humour is another person’s cringe or another person’s orgasm. I read the penis survey when it came out and so wanted to write about it, I never saw it mentioned on any blogs! Anyway, it fitted ok on here I thought.

Can’t remember now what I cut out of the foreplay bit, but you would def have choked if you’d read the uncensored version. I figured less was more. Well, in some circumstances 😉

The other good acrobatic scene is lifting her up in the shower. All I ever visualise is a wet floor or a bar of soap and bang, everyone falls on the shower floor.

We had a Brit programme where the main sex stud star was Adam Faith as a plumber, Love Hurts maybe? Can’t remember. But there are too many rich businessmen and not enough average working class men in these silly stories. I am, of course, totally biased being married to an average working class man.

Funny enough, I don’t mind sexual posts like that at all. You left just enough for the imagination to run wild. Which I did of course. You know I have a ‘movie’ mind. hahahaha! For a short survey, it fitted in quite well I’d say. 😛

Whahahahah! Now you tell me! I like the uncensored versions, with the bloopers included of course!

Yep, in some circumstances less is definitely more. hahaha!

Oh yeah, forgot about that one! Whahahah! And if it’s not a huge shower, someone might get hurt badly for sure. 😆

The plumber sounds more realistic to me as well and just like you, I am also married to an average working class man. I don’t mind at all. I am way to realistic to believe in fairy tales. I like watching them, but I do prefer my horrors and supernatural/witch stuff more. 😀

Now, what’s wrong with the sex books is that there is too much detail. One of the most famous sex scenes in history in films is Rhett and Scarlett where you see nothing of what actually happens. Clever.

Sexual acrobatics in the shower are for young fit people, or older slower people with very large showers.

You watch, I read. Somewhere we meet in the middle. My film choices are like my book ones, action, adventure, handsome men (why not!)

I did map out the start of the travel books. Will be a long time yet. Cinders may arrive first 😀

I had two dolls. Bella (black) and Belinda (pink). Loved them both. Not remotely skinny, nice faces and normal sized. Wish I still had them. I loved Bella most for some reason. Can’t do with barbie type dolls.

Did you? Not that I knew anything about him, european ignorance is blisssful. James Baker was i to organic vegetarian food so he gets a sort of a nod. Well, for his diet anyway. Now tell me, why is Jim Baker important apart from seemingly being a wanker …

As usual you and the commenters take my thoughts to places they’ve never been before… I’ve not read 50 Shades either. Not a single word- never even picked up one of the many copies on the second hand book tables. So I’m quite perplexed that a more than a few people assumed I have. Hopefully it’s a generic assumption rather than a judgement of some key indicators I display that I’m not aware of making me a likely candidate.
I note there’s a new Cinderella film out that looks very Hollywood Vanilla. I wonder why the industry keeps regurgitating the same old same old, and then I answer myself, because it sells. The world seems to have an endless appetite for outdated drivel tarted up.

Late to the party, so to speak . . . not even the glass slipper left to comment on.

Still, one quick comment . . . I’ve not read the book, but everything I’ve read about it seems to reinforce the idea that “no” means “sure, go ahead” . . . and because of it I really don’t get why this is so popular with women.

At the very least, it will send the wrong message to the average one-brow-mouth-breather male out there. Namely, women really “want it” where “it” apparently is whatever the man wants.

. . . I am so glad I don’t have kids . . . but if I did, and they be girls, they would be handy with knives, guns, razor blades, and very aware of the fact the majority of men really are scum.