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Topic: Pizza Hut (Back in the day) (Read 29014 times)

Back in the day, when Pizza Hut made the dough in store, and they had the big white dough sheeters and deck ovens, I absolutely loved the thin and crispy. I don't know if thin and crispy (thin) would be considered a cracker crust, but I would think so. Yesterday I got to visit with an experienced Pizza Hut guy from the 70's. He acted as though he enjoyed my questions and he was happy to recite the thin crust recipe by heart.

25# flour (he said it was AP)9# 105* water6 oz yeast (kind not specified) by weight9 oz oil (he said high quality vegetable) by volume4 oz salt (kind not specified) by weightDough was made in a spiral mixer, proofed at kitchen temps. until up to a line in a dough container (which is similar to a large rubbermaid trash can) for about two hours

Procedure: grab a hand full of dough, run it through the sheeter, place on cutter pan and cut, then dock. The leftover sheeted dough from that one skin was added to the next handfull of dough and sheeted again. On a busy night cutter pans could be loaded with a skin, but they were never allowed to sit undressed for more than 30 minutes. Because he said they would rise to much and not be right.

I have tried to the best of my ability to make a bakers percent version of the recipe that he gave. I hope someone will check it and make sure it is correct.

Flour 100%Water 36%Yeast 1.5%Oil 2.163%Salt 1%

He said it was mixed until it started to tear and looked scrappy.

The water and salt looks low as does the yeast, unless it was cake yeast. I really love thin and crispy. Somebody care to weigh in on this recipe?

If 9 ounces of oil by volume is used, that is 1 1/8 cups, or 54 teaspoons. For vegetable oil, that translates to 8.65 ounces by weight, or 2.163% of the formula flour.

A hydration of 36% would have been normal for a cracker-style crust. In fact, if you look at DKM's cracker-style recipe at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizzainnstyle.php, you sill see the same hydration value. In fact, if you look at the other ingredient percents in DKM's recipe, you will see other similarities to the dough formulation you posted.

As for the yeast, the recitation of 105 degrees F suggests that the yeast may have been active dry yeast (ADY). IDY came into being in the 1970s and did not require rehydrating in warm water. It is possible that the yeast was cake yeast, even though it does not require 105 degrees F water to rehydrate (it can be cooler), so if you can follow up with the former PH guy, that will be a plus for you. However, I'm guessing that the yeast was ADY. If it were cake yeast, the equivalent baker's percent for ADY would be about 0.75%. I think that would be too low for a dough to be used in a couple of hours. I think 1.5% ADY was intended.

If you decide to try the recipe, you may have to do some experimenting with the amount of dough and try to get the right final weight of the dough skin. In my experience with the cracker style, that is important in order to get uniform, consistent results.

I have left this alone until I finish my research, but something to me just doesn't add up. I talked to another PH guy from the 70's again yesterday. He said in the beginning they used straight AP flour, then PH started sending the flour in bags with a PH label. He commented that the pizza crust was much better with the original AP flour than the new (at the time ) PH flour.

Two things don't add up to me.1) the new PH from the 70's guy said the dough was ready to go in 4 hours. Even though I made and emergency DKM http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11766.msg108999.html#msg108999 in a few hours, I feel that the PH environment would not have been as warm as my microwave. Thusly, letting the dough proof faster in the warmer microwave than it would in a rubbermaid trash can in PH. What i am saying is that I don't think the dough would have proofed as much as mine did.

2) I made a comment to both PH guys about the low hydration. I said the dough must have been really dry and scrappy. I also said that maybe it looked like cornmeal. Neither one of them agreed with my assumption. They both said no, it did make a "dough". Nothing I can think of can explain why they considered it a "dough" and not scrappy or dry. The only other thing I can think of is the weight of the dough, all piled up in a trashcan would help it come together better than we do, by pushing the scrappy dough together in a ball.

1) dry yeast2) dough was not docked (hence the burns and no hair on his forearms)3) dough was kept as far away from oven as possible. He said the dough could blow, then it smelled like Cutty Sark4) dough was allowed to double (about four hours) then it was used5) sauce was Contidina tomato sauce, and mixed with a pre-mixed spiced bag.

Even a dough as low as 36% hydration if let to proof for 60 to 75 minutes, "can" be soft and very easy to work with a sheeter. I emphasize "can" because flours change, and at times the dough comes up very firm and in pieces....but I would say 95% of the time the dough is very soft and easy to work with.

I tend to agree with John on this point. On the assumption that the yeast was ADY (because of the water temperature specified), at 1.5% ADY there would be a substantial likelihood of the dough doubling in about 4 hours. In fact, 1.5% ADY would be about 50% higher than one would normally use for an emergency dough that can be made and used within a few hours. It is also possible that the "mass effect" was at play because of the size of the dough batch and the increased biochemical activity as a result. See, for example, Reply 490 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg30150.html#msg30150.

I was a driver at Pizza Hut off and on between 1992 and 1994. Although I didn't work on the line, nor did I discover my passion for making pizza until several years later, I still remember a lot of Pizza Hut's procedures from my time there. (Yes, they did still make dough on-site when I was there, although the dry ingredients were pre-mixed and packaged at a commissary.) I'll try to organize my memories and post again later with some useful information.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

1) the new PH from the 70's guy said the dough was ready to go in 4 hours. Even though I made and emergency DKM http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11766.msg108999.html#msg108999 in a few hours, I feel that the PH environment would not have been as warm as my microwave. Thusly, letting the dough proof faster in the warmer microwave than it would in a rubbermaid trash can in PH. What i am saying is that I don't think the dough would have proofed as much as mine did.

2) I made a comment to both PH guys about the low hydration. I said the dough must have been really dry and scrappy. I also said that maybe it looked like cornmeal. Neither one of them agreed with my assumption. They both said no, it did make a "dough". Nothing I can think of can explain why they considered it a "dough" and not scrappy or dry. The only other thing I can think of is the weight of the dough, all piled up in a trashcan would help it come together better than we do, by pushing the scrappy dough together in a ball.

1) My memory says the dough was ready in much less than four hours, but I’m not sure, so just forget I said that. I think they may have mixed the thin crust dough first thing in the morning, hours before I would arrive for a daytime delivery shift. The dough (stored in a trash liner within a Rubbermaid container at room temperature all day) did not change much physically throughout the day; it didn’t really rise. When you ripped off a new piece to sheet, whether it was noon or 9:00, it pretty much always looked like it had just been mixed. It never felt airy, nor were there any tiny gas bubbles.

2) The dough was very stiff but definitely not dry or scrappy. Your cornmeal comment reminded me of some pics I shared in the Tommy’s Pizza thread (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,12446.msg120916.html#msg120916). The first pic is what you mean by cornmeal, right? Well, PH thin dough didn’t look like that. It looked much more like my 2nd and 3rd pics, but a little more developed. (The only difference between my first and second pic is that I formed a ball out of the “cornmeal” by compressing all of it with my hands. However, Pizza Hut used a planetary mixer, not a food processor or a cutter-mixer, which makes me think they mixed for a couple minutes longer than it takes to incorporate all the dough ingredients.)

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Maybe the combination of Peter's advice of the "mass effect" and the possibility that AP flour was a little lower in protein back in the 70's, could yield a "dough". --Just sayin.

If one could make a Pizza Inn or Pizza Hut thin crust with a Ken's (predecessor to Mazzio's) or Mazzio's sauce, then I would likely marry them on the spot, no questions asked. Except how to make the sauce that has that perfect acidic bite.

What I need is for someone to remember the dough weight per size of pizza. One of the big mistakes made is people rolling the dough too thin.

There is no scaling of the thin dough. You just rip a chunk from the dough mass, run it through the sheeter, then dock and trim it on the cutter pan. Regardless, I'm thinking a 10" pizza should be about 7-8 oz of dough. That would make about 10.1-11.5 oz for a 12" pizza and about 13.7-15.7 oz for a 14".

It's all about the sheeter. Without a sheeter, I think you just have to go by feel.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

There is no scaling of the thin dough. You just rip a chunk from the dough mass, run it through the sheeter, then dock and trim it on the cutter pan. Regardless, I'm thinking a 10" pizza should be about 7-8 oz of dough. That would make about 10.1-11.5 oz for a 12" pizza and about 13.7-15.7 oz for a 14".

It's all about the sheeter. Without a sheeter, I think you just have to go by feel.

There was back when I did it. Everytime we set the sheet for thin, we had to weigh out a medium until it was the right weight. I just don't remember what the weight was.

...Regardless, I'm thinking a 10" pizza should be about 7-8 oz of dough. That would make about 10.1-11.5 oz for a 12" pizza and about 13.7-15.7 oz for a 14"....It's all about the sheeter. Without a sheeter, I think you just have to go by feel.

I revisited the test cracker dough that I sheeted with my manual dough sheeter. http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,11459.msg108533.html#msg108533 I sheeted two skins to 12" with TF of .05 and .06 . The skins were only as thick as a penny, I felt that they should be roughly twice as thick as that. PH from the 70's guy said he couldn't remember exactly becuse he didn't weight them either. I think Peters rough guideline of TF= .1 for a cracker crust would be very close to do any testing or cooking with.

The GM walked in and joined the conversation, not much came out of it except he remembered 16 oz of oil in a 25# batch.

I'm thinking a 10" pizza should be about 7-8 oz of dough. That would make about 10.1-11.5 oz for a 12" pizza and about 13.7-15.7 oz for a 14".

It's all about the sheeter. Without a sheeter, I think you just have to go by feel.

I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that. Having thought about it a little more, I'd say the higher end of my estimates are probably more accurate. That is, 8 oz for a 10", 11.5 oz. for a 12", and 15.7 oz. for a 14".

Also, I worked at 4 different Pizza Hut delivery units; two in Ohio, one in Connecticut, and one in Illinois. None of them scaled thin crust dough. I don't know why anyone would even consider scaling dough for a PH thin crust because every skin is trimmed on the pan. Scaling dough for that kind of pizza is simply unnecessary extra work.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

I was the morning cook in a Pizza Hut during my college days back in the mid-70's. I even have a little gold pin that says "Dough Master" on it! It really impresses the women!

I went into work around 6AM and made all of the dough for the day, including bazzilions of personal pan pizzas. On busy days I'd make more dough before I left around 1PM.

It was a long time ago, but two things stand out for me concerning the PH thin dough...

1. There was a lot of oil! We used to have a bottle that was about the size/shape of a clorox bottle, only it was transparent. There was a spigot/pump attached so that each press down on the white pump streamed oil out of the spigot. I would guess 1/4 cup per pump. The pan pizza batch would get maybe 3 pumps but the thin would get several more...maybe 3 times as much.

2. The dough coming out of the Hobart was very dry, and was not at all a cohesive lump of dough. There were still dry crumbles in there along with slightly wetter dough pieces. The dough was pulled out of the Hobart and placed in a kitchen trash can sized container lined with a plastic bag. The plastic bag was folded down to cover the dough mass and a plastic lid (not tight fitting if I recall correctly) was placed on top. The container was placed in a two container metal frame with a second identical container (empty with a bag) right next to it. This set up was wheeled into the prep area and placed next to the sheeter. This was the batch of thin dough for the day (on occasion I'd make another batch before I left at around 1PM. When the dough was needed, I'd unfold the bag and grab a glob of dough and press it down thin enough to place into the shoot of the sheeter. As the day went on the dough did rise a bit and become more cohesive but it didn't rise anything like the Pan Pizza dough. I've sometimes thought I'd like to have one of those old sheeting machines as it was a cool device. I had to repair it several times too but it wasn't anything more than replacing a spring or something like that. The dough went in and was spit out thinner, then I rotated it and placed it in the next area to slide though the thinner spaced rollers. Then it came out and I placed it in the cutter pan, trimmed it with a roller, and perforated it thoroughly.

I also remember the thin sauce was spicier and a little thicker than the pan pizza sauce.

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but when Pizza Hut's Pan Pizza was first introduced back in the '70's, wasn't the cheese spread all the way to the inside of the edge of the pan? In other words, was there none of the rim exposed like today's version?

I sure don't remember seeing that Pete. All the way to the edge would have stood out as looking like a deep dish and back then in a Chicago suburb we would have noticed. In fact, all I remember is that it did cause quite a stir because of it's really large, fat rim/cornicione. Maybe in other parts of the country...dunno?

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys, but when Pizza Hut's Pan Pizza was first introduced back in the '70's, wasn't the cheese spread all the way to the inside of the edge of the pan? In other words, was there none of the rim exposed like today's version?

We had a white plastic "donut" ring that fit onto the rim of the pan and created a barrier about an inch in from the pan sides. Inside this barrier is where we placed the cheese and all other ingredients. So, at least where I worked back in '76-'78, there was definitely a rim without cheese. This ring contraption made it so even us chimpanzees could dress a pie without getting anything on the rim!