The song itself dates back much further, but Noone claims authorship of the phrase in this interview, and all sources seem to back him up. It's just a brilliant ad lib that seems timeless at this point, I guess.posted by mykescipark at 10:33 AM on February 9, 2012

Not songs but I can find a couple uses of the phrase in books and newspapers from the 1940s. They sound like they are quoting a well known phrase.

The song was recorded in 1965 by Herman's Hermits (it was actually popularized in 1910 or so by Harry Champion, but that version, I think, does not have the "same as the first" verse)

The phrase definitely appears before that:

See, eg: the novel "something's got to give" from 1948: "Second verse, same as the first", or this folk song (The Cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn) cited here in 1962.posted by ManInSuit at 10:40 AM on February 9, 2012

Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn
Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn
Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn
And the doctor said it would do no harm
Second verse, same as the first
A little bit louder and a little bit worse...
(repeat ad naseum)
tune: Turkey in the Strawposted by ManInSuit at 10:45 AM on February 9, 2012

The answers above raise two questions that underlie my original post:

1. At what point did the phrase cross over from Vaudeville/music halls/literature to pop music as we understand it today; and

2. Is the phrase English or American in origin?posted by trivirgata at 10:52 AM on February 9, 2012

This article apparently talks about the Cow Kicked Nelly "circular song" (I think, as with Henery, there may be an older, non-repeating version). I can't read it because I can't get into JSTOR. Maybe someone can help. Now I'm curious, too...posted by ManInSuit at 11:06 AM on February 9, 2012

I can get into JSTOR. The article is a reminiscence of singing various circular songs as a child in 1940s Philadelphia. The lyrics given for "The Cow Kicked Nelly" are the same as above. It notes that it was sung to "turkey in the straw" and the "second verse same as the first" part was shouted. The song only had one verse and you would count up saying "third verse same as the first", "fourth verse same as the first" etc.posted by interplanetjanet at 11:22 AM on February 9, 2012

While I was at I searched JSTOR some more and here's another article about circular songs that mentions the phrase.

trivirgata, all the sources interplanetjanet cited are US sources. (Marion Hargrove, despite his more-frequently-a-lady-name, was a dude most famous for his comic novel about the Army, See Here, Private Hargrove!, which was made into a movie starring Robert Walker.)

At what point did the phrase cross over from Vaudeville/music halls/literature to pop music as we understand it today

Assumes facts not in evidence. I think you see it in Hargrove's comic novel and a beauty expert's column and in social anthropologists' documentation of children's playground songs and games because it originated in the playground songs and games, not in literature or on the stage.

If it were a well-established UK music halls thing, I think we'd be able to find a UK source earlier than Noone.posted by Sidhedevil at 11:59 AM on February 9, 2012

Although it is possible that it was used in the UK too. The sources I'm searching may be US-centric. Google news archive has some non-US papers but most of its sources are from the US.posted by interplanetjanet at 5:45 AM on February 10, 2012

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