The patented Trump palaver, a gaseous blather of “fantastic”s and “amazing”s and “terrific”s and “incredible”s and various synonyms for “biggest,” is an indispensable ingredient of the name brand.

Oh, bullshit. Every time I listen to him he's calling everything "yooge."

From the description of his apartment:

“This is the greatest apartment ever built. There’s never been anything like it. There’s no apartment like this anywhere. It was harder to build this apartment than the rest of the building. A lot of it I did just to see if it could be done. All the very wealthy people who think they know great apartments come here and they say, ‘Donald, forget it. This is the greatest.’ ” Very few touches suggested that real people actually lived there—where was it, exactly, that Trump sat around in his boxers, eating roast-beef sandwiches, channel surfing, and scratching where it itched?

"In other words, they would become the hottest writer since Watergate, or beyond."

Back to the original point of this post.

In fact, a reporter would not become the hottest writer since Watergate.

They'd become unemployed. Layers and layers of editors would squash such a story and any writer who submitted it would be relegated to writing business reviews of local flooring companies for the upcoming Spring Cleanup special section.

Editors exist to prevent pesky reporters from altering the Democrat Party narrative.

That's why it's so cheap to buy the press. You don't have to buy every reporter ... just the editors.

Had this been George Bush or almost any other President or Presidential aspirant,

Did he mean this?

"I know some of these big guys, they're all still driving their big SUVs. You know, they got their big monster trucks and everything. . . . If you're complaining about the price of gas and you're only getting eight miles a gallon — (laughter) . . . "... "So, like I said, if you're getting eight miles a gallon you may want to think about a trade-in. You can get a great deal."

Because of course The Zero cruises along in a caravan of SUV's getting 8MPG...

The fact that you assume that these fanatical obsessions are worth pursuing and won't blow up in your paranoid faces, exposing your lunatic fringe for what it is, is sad -- although apparently necessary and perhaps ultimately a good thing.

Keep the faith, birthers. Push your theory all the way to Iowa Loony-Fest 2012, where the real loonies get weeded out from the fake loonies.

The hardest thing for a human being to do is to admit that they were so easily hoodwinked.

Look, it's just human nature. It's very embarrassing to admit ... even to yourself ... that you were had.

So it won't. ever. happen.

The easiest thing for people to do at this point is to simply wait it out until 2012 and then we'll be rid of this fucking moron.

And we won't allow ourselves to be so easily fooled by the Democrat Party in the future.

See, the thing is ... people are going to remember it was Democrats who did this to us. They might never admit out loud or to their friends that they were conned ... but they're going to fucking remember it for a long, long time.

We should thank Ann Althouse for keeping the Glenn Beck contingent of the internet "well informed" -- at least by their standards. She's doing a service to disaffected right-wing lunatic conspiracy theorists across the country, who will otherwise have to rely on FOX broadcasts of mere smear and innuendo, rather than outright chalkboard antics outlining the whole damn process of psychosis and alternative reality.

Glenn Beck's firing apparently bodes well for Ms. Althouse as she can now pick up the slack from her former competitor.

"In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate ..."

What the campaign released was a digitally scanned image of a contemporaneously produced short-form "birth certificate" produced by current Hawaiian state officials who - it just so happens - belong to the Democrat Party.

This contemporaneously produced document was made at Obama's request and only included minimal information that Obama would agree to release.

It could very well be forged, since we haven't seen the original document to compare the original to the contemporaneous version. It might not be forged. But it might be forged - just like the Bush memos were forged by Dan Rather and CBS producers leading to his firing. People forge documents all the time. Important people forge documents to effect presidential elections.

The Obama campaign did not, and is currently refusing to, release his original long-form birth certificate.

Americans have a right to see that document if Barack Hussein Obama would like to qualify to run for President. Because the Constitution says we have that right.

Obama is not eligible NO Matter WHERE he was born. His foreign father makes him ineligible, and passed Obama 2 British Citizenship at birth. NO one born with foreign allegiance is eligible for POTUS since 1787. Trump is aware of this, since he made the naturalization certificate of his mother public, proving that Trump was born of 2 US Citizen parents on US Soil (mother naturalized 2 years before he was born). Ergo Trump his a natural born Citizen.

The Media is covering up the most heinous case of Treason ever. Congress has allowed a Marxist Usurper to ascend the Presidency and give illegal orders to our troops. Nah that's not that serious. I wonder if the "law Prof" community will be embarrassed for accepting an illegal POTUS, when he is thrown out of office.

The first step is to see the ACTUAL BC (a pic on a website is proof of NOTHING), to determine if Obama Sr. is in fact Obama's father. Trump knows this.

TICK TOCK. Which "law profs" will come to Jesus, and get ahead of the ousting of the Usurper, and which will be embarrassed for blithely accepting a foreigner in the White House. TICK TOCK.

Everyone on the East Coast knows that Trump is an egomaniacal bs-talker with a long history of bringing projects to bankruptcy. All that someone as respected as Cosby has to do is point this out in a few simple words. The idiots in the flyover who jerk themselves off to Trump's riches will get this one day, if they don't today.

Trump will not and cannot run; he's just competing for your fringe, which only amounts to vapors in the real race. Cosby has enough credibility to smack that comb-over fraud with a few words, but maybe you have something against the guy for not being a WASP. Want to see his birth certificate, too? Was Cosby born in Kenya?

Oh boy! And no sooner than that has "Mick" arrived, with his never-ending warped universe bullshit about a hypothetical British citizenship somehow cancelling out American naturalization status. What a tool.

Where the fuck do you get these guys? The nut-house is really swinging this morning.

Both issues are big. The press supports Obama no matter what because he's black. Period, end of story. The birther issue is big because electing a total questionmark president is fraught with danger: danger that is now unfolding for all but the willfully blind to see.

I dunno, TG. More talented comedians seem to have their wits about them. Those comedians who burnt themselves out artificially on cocaine and Jack or whatever saw their day in the late 1960s through the early 1980s, which would be right about on time for now in the tardy, three to five decades behind the times Conservatard culture.

Although we must still mourn Mitch Hedberg, who went a little later than that trendline. Maybe deep down, he was really a conservative.

The fourth estate is in bed with the progressives, marxists, and the various unions. They see this as an existential threat to their plans for power maintenance. They have set up a Maginot Line that will only fall as Tea Partiers pressure the GOP, Independents, and conservative democrats to do an end run around them.

It will not be pretty and the way will be fraught with every form of subterfuge available to the noisy progressives who will not go down without a no-holds barred fight. We live in a democracy that is split 51 per cent to 49 percent. Dirty tricks are to be expected and prepared for. The road to 2012 will not be for the faint hearted as the states and the federal government struggle to get their respective houses in order.

Our educational institutions should be next on the list to target for reform. Who is going to decide our country's future? East coast Brahmins on Beacon Hill and their toadies on the west coast or the "Joe and Josephine plumbers" who live in flyover country?

Unlike you, my allegiance to human intelligence is greater than any allegiance to any political party. Hence, I don't have any problem calling out these antics as a disgrace to human intelligence, regardless of what they do for your pathetic excuse for a political party.

That's ok. ;-) I'm perfectly willing to sit back and see where you end up going with this updated, infinitely more whacked out version of the costly fishing trip that was Lewinsky-gate. You're doing a bang-up job all by yourself, Caveman Guy "Ut".

What's the matter? Were grunts not available for use as an acceptable Blogger profile name?

It's ok, Tery, I mean "Trey". People who can spell their own names correctly understand that you don't have the morals or honor to avoid putting a fraudulent conspiracy theory to what you consider to be "good use". It's not like you have the decency to put honesty above a good effort at firing up your otherwise demoralized fringe base. And I do mean "base" in every sense of the word.

I'm not. By attaching the serious, legitimate issue of the way the press is behaving to the less serious, almost trivial (at this point) subject of birtherism, Trump is ensuring that it will be marginalized.

He's right about the press. I'm glad he's out there making that criticism.

Yes, the major outlet press is in the bag for Obama.

Obama is starchy and professorial. Not to mention black.

And Trump... well, he's sort of like Walmart in comparison. That is, I think he more closely approximates what those real Americans out there really admire and want. And the blue nose, preachy liberals think he's gauche and commercial... just like Walmart.

It is rather bizarre that no one in the press has bothered to go to Hawaii to convince some records person to go take a peek at the long form birth certificate, isn't it?

I'm sure Obama's long form birth certificate is locked up in the Governor's safe at this point, just to keep someone from snooping. I bet that his academic records from Columbia and Harvard Law are also locked up somewhere special, for precisely the same reason.

All this noise and the most credible explanation anybody can come up with is Trey's (or as he alternatively spells it, "Tery"'s) idea that no one wants to know that Anne Dunham put "white" as the race?

Really. Is this the best that can be provided? All this noise and that's it?

Enough said.

It's like Bill Maher said about Glenn Beck: The guy is close to playing with his poop.

It's a sad comment on the press that we have to rely on the Enquirer for true investigative journalism when it comes to Democrats.

No kidding. That alone should make national level journalists ashamed. I mean, really, not one of them outside of the Enquirer can be bothered to look into scandals involving Democrats? You'd think they'd have cleaned up their acts after the embarrassment of the John Edwards scandal.

I mean, come on guys! If the National Enquirer can't find out about how Colonel Mustard did it with a rope in the in the ballroom (hid the birth certificate, that is), then we are seriously fucked as a country.

Personally, Freeman (@9:12), I think the butler did it with the pipe in the parlor.

Except it's not a game, it's real life, and the people who are suppose to gather information to inform the rest of us are not interested in gathering information that hurts favored politicians. That's a bad, bad thing.

I'm sure Obama's long form birth certificate is locked up in the Governor's safe...

I think Gov. Abercrombie pretty much disproved this point when he came up with nothing. And while still in an initial state of shock, admitted he had come up with nothing; no original, no long form, no nothin'.

"Oh boy! And no sooner than that has "Mick" arrived, with his never-ending warped universe bullshit about a hypothetical British citizenship somehow cancelling out American naturalization status. What a tool.

Where the fuck do you get these guys? The nut-house is really swinging this morning."

Right, Obama Admits, at Fight the Smears, that he was born British. Only those born w/ Singular allegiance to the US are eligible to be POTUS, and eligible to be CIC of the armed forces. It's common sense.

Even Laurence Tribe said it: ( "natural born Citizens are those born WITHIN the Territory AND ALEGIANCE of a nation".)

Foreign Nationality law has as much standing in the US as US law, just as those born of US citizens abroad are considered US Citizens.

The Donald is a pretty clever guy. He knows the press can't resist him. When he walks into the room, the press reacts like a pack of Okie meth heads in the presence of fresh junk from the lab. They're hooked.

As a result, what he says gets out there, and that's a good thing. The press can't cover up The Donald and sweep him under the rug. He's effective. Look at what happened when he went off on the View. It was like a bomb going off. People couldn't ignore it. He brought up the birther stuff, and the women went batshit! The resulting squawking was like a fox invading a henhouse.

Really, I don't care about the whole birth certificate thing. True or not, I only see it as a weapon against Obama. Anything that hurts him and his credibility with the people is good in my eyes. If it's not true, and it damages him, I'm cool with that. This is an ongoing war, and I'll use any arrow in my quiver to damage Obama's chances at reelection.

wv: clang; the sound made every time The Donald slaps Obama upside the head with the birther thing.

Well, whatever. If, as Trump promises, he's got his investigatahs down there digging up the dirt, then I'm sure your anticlimactic solution to this boring conspiracy is just around the corner. After all, since you Republicans believe that money can do anything, then if Trump can't do it, no one can.

I mean seriously, he almost lured Rosie O'Donnell's ex-girlfriend away from her using a lesbian foil. He's a REALLY SERIOUS GUY!!!

I think that Trump makes some very valid points. The media has gone way above and beyond their job by allowing--and actually helping--Obama's camp to produce a narrative without actually having any evidence to back up any of the information they claim as fact.

You'd think it would be in their best interest to produce these documents--birth certificate, college transcripts, etc. After all, the BC is a Constitutional matter. As far as the transcripts are concerned, well, if Obama really is the most intelligent president we've ever had, then you'd think they'd be happy to show us his grades at Harvard, just like we've seen the transcripts for all other recent presidents.

I agree with Trey: The fact that the Obama administration flat-out refuses to produce such documents suggests that there is something in them that goes against the narrative that they so forcefully have imposed on us over the past 3 years.

But, can you tell what would be more serious than to discover that Obama isn't constitutionally qualified to be president?

That's pretty damned serious.

Why should I have any trouble believing that if it was really not only serious, but credible, that mainstream, non-partisan fact-gathering organizations and attorneys filing suit would have said and put out anything to cast doubt on the issue?

Why should I have any trouble believing that if it was really not only serious, but credible, that mainstream, non-partisan fact-gathering organizations and attorneys filing suit would have said and put out anything to cast doubt on the issue?

Once again, I'm not saying there is a believable issue here.

The argument is that the mainstream media is so in bed with Obama that they refuse to investigate. I think there's reason to believe that.

For instance, the mainstream media did everything it could do to minimize and distract public attention from Obama's decades long relationship with Rev. Wright.

You're missing the point. It doesn't matter whether you consider this serious or not. It only matters that it makes people doubt Obama's legitimacy. True or not, it's an amazingly effective weapon. It's gone from being fringe/crazy (ala Mick) to being mainstream. The Donald has made talking about the certificate normal. Obama and his people look like they're stonewalling, and that raises doubt. Doubt damages.

True believers like yourself can kick and scream about the unseriousness of the allegations, but you can't deny that it's not drawing a little blood. Each time this gets out into the press, it's another cut.

One day, one newspaper, one data point. On a fricking weekend, at that. (@9:37).

And you Republicans say that your empiricism skills are par excellence! Not only do they survive intact, they are blistering!

Newsflash on New York Times: They're also still, at least as I understand it, allowed to be a local paper from time to time and can report on local events, including the goings-on amongst the local celebutards. Don't hate them for doing a better job of also somehow becoming the paper of record for the rest of the country. I mean, I've got nothing against the Des Moines Register if they're up for the challenge also.

"Why should I have any trouble believing that if it was really not only serious, but credible, that mainstream, non-partisan fact-gathering organizations and attorneys filing suit would have said and put out anything to cast doubt on the issue?"

That is an Mi>"appeal to authority" and is a well-known logical fallacy. Where did you attend school? Did they not teach you about this fifth-grade level error in thinking?

Again Ritmo, you make the Democrat Party look like morons who know nothing of science or logic.

What is it, Chef (@9:40)? The Chinese Water Torture of Untruth and Speculation in the Minds of a Minor Mob? Fact-check.org and a bunch of credible others did the math and I can't find anything mainstream on this. It's all up to the "alternative" press on the right, now, and that's a series of sources I take as seriously as the left-wing "alternative" press. Biased, biased, biased and always a bit goofy in where and how they want to cast their fishing lines.

"All the very wealthy people who think they know great apartments come here and they say, ‘Donald, forget it. This is the greatest.’"

The egoism shown here is driving this stunt. Be extremely wary of egoists, whether driven by money, fame, or personal charisma. People who believe their success in one area means they're right on everything are dangerous. And this guy has the worst case I've ever seen. He's a buffoon, a poseur, who apparently manages to see himself as serious.

It's about the press. Their unwillingness to wrap up the birther thing is just another example of how unserious they are about fact finding. In the case of the birther issue, even if they think the idea is stupid, they know that a lot of people in the United States think that the President was born somewhere else.

That is serious because it's important for people to believe in the legitimacy of the President. And yet, instead of doing the work and informing people to put the issue to rest, they belittle the people with a collective eye roll and go work on investigating Redford's views on politics, Middleton's hairstyle, and whether or not an Obama advisor likes the cuts that Obama doesn't like (Guess what? He doesn't!).

And I thought Trump was going to go the "I'm a businessman; I can run this country" route. What advisor told him "Go the birther route and then when you've got their attention, whip out your economic recovery plan"?

"Fact-check.org and a bunch of credible others did the math and I can't find anything mainstream on this."

If you read factcheck.org carefully, you will plainly see that they make comment only about the contemporaneously produced "birth certificate" that the Obama campaign proffered as evidence that he is an American.

factcheck.org has not seen Barack Obama's original long-form birth certificate.

Many people have concluded that factcheck.org have not seen that original long-form birth certificate because it does not exist.

In fact, the current Democrat governor of Hawaii went in search of that very document but reported to the mainstream media that he was unable to locate that document in the Hawaiian birth archives.

Many people maintain an open mind and would be willing to be persuaded that Barack Obama is, in fact, an American.

So, we'd like to see his original long-form birth certificate which isn't an unusual or particularly onerous request.

All Americans have to provide such documentation on a daily basis when filling out their I-9 form to be gainfully employed in the United States.

Donald will run with it all the way to the primaries -- if he survives that far (which he probably won't). Once a nominee is chosen, it won't be an issue. Listen to the Cos; he's wiser than most Americans.

Trump is just doing this as his own pet hobby, of the sort that only other rich weirdos of the Howard Hughes mindcast, and with that much time and money on their hands, can appreciate.

I'm simply amazed at how easily you allow for people to be manipulated by just another rich weirdo. Oh well, he's definitely got his audience cut out for him.

"Many people maintain an open mind and would be willing to be persuaded that Barack Obama is, in fact, an American. So, we'd like to see his original long-form birth certificate which isn't an unusual or particularly onerous request."

In the absence of that proof, many people will conclude that it's better to just be safe than sorry and vote for somebody they KNOW is American.

In the case of the birther issue, even if they think the idea is stupid, they know that a lot of people in the United States think that the President was born somewhere else.

Oh. And why would they assume to think that? And if they do, why should they be engaged?

The issue can just as easily be cast as the press not pushing for an iron-clad level (to the point of almost hypothetical) of evidentiary standards as it can be silly nativism. So if it comes down to "The Narrative" (as someone else called it) why play this silly little political game to an obviously anticlimactic end? What will be gotten for it? The timely understanding that there were no WMD in Iraq?

Again, priorities. If you're going to take the press on, you might want to try doing it over something that matters. But we all know where that would lead you...

It doesn't matter if Factcheck supports your argument. What matters is The Donald is constantly on TV mainstreaming the birther question. Most people don't know Factcheck from a hole in the ground, but they do see that clip from the View being played over and over. On Youtube, that clip has got over 300,000 views. Factcheck can't compete with that exposure.

Most hospitals in the U.S. issue a souvenir birth certificate which typically includes the footprints of the newborn. However, these birth certificates are not legally accepted as proof of age or citizenship, and are frequently rejected by the Bureau of Consular Affairs during passport applications. Many Americans believe the souvenir records to be their official birth certificates, when in reality they hold little legal value.

In the United States and Canada, when a person is legally adopted, the government will seal the original birth certificate, and will issue a replacement birth certificate noting the information of the adoptive parents, and the adoptive names of the child. In those cases, adopted individuals are not granted access to their own original birth certificates upon request. Laws vary depending on state or province. Some places allow adopted people unrestricted access to their own original birth certificates, whereas in others the certificate is available only if the biological parents have given their permission. Other places do not allow adopted people access to their own original birth certificates under any circumstances.

The seckrit long-form birth certificate is bullshit. The Federal and state governments recognizes no such thing as legal birth certificate except what the state prints out and stamps for you when you ask them for one.

The demand for a sekrit "real" birth certificate is based on totally made-up law.

This is like when tax protestors think they can avoid paying taxes by declaring themselves to be a "live person". There are no sekrit laws and sekrit brith certificates.

It doesn't matter if Factcheck supports your argument. What matters is The Donald is constantly on TV mainstreaming the birther question. Most people don't know Factcheck from a hole in the ground, but they do see that clip from the View being played over and over. On Youtube, that clip has got over 300,000 views. Factcheck can't compete with that exposure.

Guess what, Julius Caesar Mojo: I'm glad you've discovered the power of the mob and its attendant sensationalism. That must be an exciting personal epiphany. Can't always really easily compete with those things on their own terms. But, thankfully, most of us with morals would do a better job distinguishing between what can be done, with what should be done. And when all else fails, the shelf-life on our appetite for flash and glam is limited. It expires. It rots. People find better things to do and an eventually more sensible way to do it. But in the meantime, knock yourself out. Mold may even grow some hallucinogenic stuff, but at the end of the day, most of our minds will recognize the need for some simple bread and butter.

"Every state recognizes these "contemporaneously produced" documents as the only legal and valid birth certificate."

Incorrect.

Every state recognizes contemporaneously produced documents as one of many forms of legal and valid birth certificates ... unless there is reason to believe the document may have been forged or otherwise not factual.

Then a court would go to the originally filed "time-of-birth" long-form birth certificate to determine the truth of the matter.

It is trivial for Barack Obama to settle the matter at any rate. Every American is required to prove their identity before obtaining legal work in the United States.

If I were a betting man--and I am--I'd lay money on the proposition that ALL of Obama's "sealed" records--of every stripe--no longer physically exist in original hard-copy form. The logic goes like this: If you were Obama, would you rather the public be pissed because you have hidden and/or even acknowledge to having destroyed them, or would you rather risk the public/legal outrage if the public ever sees what those documents REALLY reveal? Those original hard-copy documents--ALL OF THEM--are looong gone.

What Obama produced as his birth certificate is ALL and ONLY that you, I, or anyone else would be legally required to produce in any situation, and no sekrit "long-form" would be acceptable to a court or a government.

"What Obama produced as his birth certificate is ALL and ONLY that you, I, or anyone else would be legally required to produce in any situation, and no sekrit "long-form" would be acceptable to a court or a government."

But we're not in a government court, Gabriel. So those rules of evidence are meaningless.

We're in the court of public opinion, where Obama's originally filed long-form birth certificate is the ONLY acceptable evidence.

The hog is definitely uncut, probably dangles to the left and when hard a shiny head pops out. Likely has some cheese in the sheath. I don't see him as a shooter though, more like just some wimpy drips.

All the Lefty reporters who got into journalism because they wanted to be the next Woodward and Bernstein have perhaps the greatest story in American history at their fingertips and they're too swept up in their own idolatry, PC, and corruption to see it.

Whether anyone likes it, there are some weird anomalies in Little Zero's story, not the least of which is that his SSN is apparently for someone born in CT, not HI. What the story is really, I can't say (I was skeptical of anything more than something humorously embarrassing), but The Donal is correct when he says a certificate of live birth is not the same thing as a birth cert and does not constitute legal proof, which I learned in my own case some years ago.

Why should they be engaged? Are you kidding? That is a politician's argument. The press isn't supposed to be engaging in political maneuvering. That's the entire point at issue here.

The press thinks that a lot of people's beliefs are incredibly stupid, and it rushes to correct them. Take, for example, the silly idea that Obama is Muslim; the press engages with that because people believe it. They've engaged extensively with the idea that all gays are living wild lifestyles. They've engaged with the idea that all Muslims are violent. They've engaged with young Earth creationism.

But when it comes to something that might be negative for a favored politician? "Oh, we just don't have time. Got to find out what Charlie Sheen was up to last night and whether or not those Palin kids are up to any shenanigans." Please.

That is a politician's argument. The press isn't supposed to be engaging in political maneuvering. That's the entire point at issue here.

They implications are not limited to politics: The politically obsessed weirdos fixating on this are citing legal claims, to which they have none. Hence: They deserve no engagement. Read Gabe Hannah. C'est tout.

Oh, and Althouse isn't citing legal claims, either - as she obviously knows better. Hence, to her it's all just about politics too, yet she runs with it anyway. To her shame.

Don't help. You're little better than a troll and if you actually cared about this issue you'd offer evidence and not snark. It's more important for you to be a jackass, that's your choice, but don't involve me.

Comedian Bill Cosby has settled a lawsuit filed against him by a Canadian woman.

The terms of the settlement with Andrea Constand of Pickering, Ontario, are confidential.

Constand's American lawyer, Dolores Troiani, issued a statement that confirmed the two parties "have resolved their differences, and, therefore, the litigation has been dismissed."

Cosby’s publicist David Brokaw told the Associated Press a settlement was reached but said there would be no public comment from the legendary comic.

Constand sued Cosby for allegedly sexually assaulting her at his mansion in Cheltenham Township in January 2004. She sought compensation from Cosby for "mental anguish," "post-traumatic stress disorder" and the "loss of enjoyment of life's pleasures."

The massage therapy student, now 33, alleged that Cosby gave her medication and then fondled her breasts and put his hand on her genitals one evening while the two were in his home.

She said she developed a friendship with the star while working at his alma mater, Temple University.

Constand filed a complaint against Cosby with Durham Regional Police in January 2005 and the case was turned over to police in Philadelphia.

Prior to the Obama birth certificate issue, there were several thoughtful articles about McCain's own birth location problems. McCain wasn't the first candidate to have a possible problem (George Romney was another), and the press consensus seemed to be that eventually we would have a winning candidate for whom we would have to go through the legal system and get it figured out.

But Obama's bc issue came up and the thoughtful articles went away. Even though Obama had handled the whole thing in such a weird way- first developing a website for it (Stop the Smears), but instead giving it to Kos at the last minute- the press accepted it.I don't know why that didn't make the press more curious. Even if there is no there there, the lack of curiosity stands out.

The politically obsessed weirdos fixating on this are citing legal claims, to which they have none. Hence: They deserve no engagement. Read Gabe Hannah. C'est tout.

Your argument doesn't work because I just cited four issues for you where the press engaged similar beliefs.

Yes, the current Hawaii birth certificate is used to establish identity. I don't know where people get the idea that it is not. However, it is also printed out from data entered into the computer system from the original long form birth certificate. A lot of people believe that erroneous data was entered on Obama's behalf, data that does not match the original.

Don't help. You're little better than a troll and if you actually cared about this issue you'd offer evidence and not snark. It's more important for you to be a jackass, that's your choice, but don't involve me.

I didn't "involve" you, jackass, I "cited" you. Honor and evidence are two different things. If I'd cared more about how to engage the trolls you disagree with, like Ut, then I'd have bothered to investigate the definitional bare minimum for what counts as evidentiary standards in his feeble mind. But I didn't. You did. So go with it, dude. I'm happy to have you taking him off my hands on right-wing nutter/troll patrol. My conversation no longer concerns nutters like "Ut" and continues with, if anyone, other non-trolls such as Mojo and Freeman. You can take the guy. Have at him. I simply don't have the experience or understanding to know how a mind as warped as his works and am thankful that you obviously do.

Once again, people are making up laws. If you knew anything about how SSNs are assigned, you wouldn't have written

not the least of which is that his SSN is apparently for someone born in CT, not HI.

Your SSN isn't issued depending on your place of birth. It's issued based on where you applied for it.

I was born in Washington but my SSN starts with 4 instead of 5, because I didn't get my SSN there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_number

The Area Number, the first three digits, is assigned by the geographical region. Prior to 1973, cards were issued in local Social Security offices around the country and the Area Number represented the office code in which the card was issued. This did not necessarily have to be in the area where the applicant lived, since a person could apply for their card in any Social Security office. Since 1973, when SSA began assigning SSNs and issuing cards centrally from Baltimore, the area number assigned has been based on the ZIP code in the mailing address provided on the application for the original Social Security card. The applicant's mailing address does not have to be the same as their place of residence. Thus, the Area Number does not necessarily represent the State of residence of the applicant, neither prior to 1973, nor since.

What Obama produced as his birth certificate is ALL and ONLY that you, I, or anyone else would be legally required to produce in any situation, and no sekrit "long-form" would be acceptable to a court or a government.

He has produced nothing, submitted nothing. A pic on a website is proof of NOTHING. Besides, by his own story he is already ineligible, not natural born, because he was born a British Subject. He admits this at fight the smears.

The politically obsessed weirdos fixating on this are citing legal claims, to which they have none. Hence: They deserve no engagement. Read Gabe Hannah. C'est tout.

Your argument doesn't work because I just cited four issues for you where the press engaged similar beliefs.

Yes, the current Hawaii birth certificate is used to establish identity. I don't know where people get the idea that it is not. However, it is also printed out from data entered into the computer system from the original long form birth certificate. A lot of people believe that erroneous data was entered on Obama's behalf, data that does not match the original.

Do I believe that? No.

But a quarter of the American people do believe it, and since it's a matter of fact subject to evidence, the press can easily investigate and inform people on the issue with evidence.

(I have a link for the quarter of Americans stat, but Blogger deleted my comment when I included it. Here is the title in case you'd like to Google it and read it: "Fox News Poll: 24 Percent Believe Obama Not Born in U.S.")

@Ritmo: What you do is not honorable. You just snark at people trying to make them feel inferior to you. You damage every cause you espouse, because people will not listen to anything substantive you have to say.

Your next incarnation might argue differently, and I'd treat you a lot nicer, and people would be more willing to listen to your arguments and be persuaded to the positions you hold.

C'mon, man. I'm trying to do this without resorting to snark or namecalling, ok?

I understand your view on this issue, and it's perfectly valid, but we're not talking about morality here. We're seeing how a meme attaches itself to the body politic. It doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong, moral or immoral; it simply is what it is.

Remember Bush and the plastic turkey? Demonstrably false, but it took off, so to speak, and tenaciously attached itself to Bush to the point of going mainstream. It was used as a weapon, and it was terribly effective.

The birther question is doing the same thing to Obama. The "mob" does matter, and once they begin to doubt, then Katy bar the door.

I'm not interested in whether Obama has a valid birth certificate or not; it's not really an issue at this point. The guy's president, and no court in the land would dare overturn the '08 election and all of us know it. (Well, folks like Ut and Mick excepted, of course...) If, however, the "mob" can be convinced to doubt his legitimacy, then perhaps it can be used as a weapon against him. That's what matters to me in all this. Is it a moral thing to use this issue as a weapon? Of course not, but there's very little in politics that is.

The press already DID engage on this, and this is why the state government said they had seen the birth certificate. They did take the trouble to refute it. They have refuted it for all reasonable people who have any factual of knowledge of what birth certificates and how they work, as opposed to standards that they just make up.

My "original" birth certificate is not even available to me. It may no longer exist, because I was adopted, but even if it does I cannot demand to see it or have it "released".

The birthers are not reasonable and will not be convinced by any sort of evidence. Look how many things they already belive which are easily demonstrated to have no factual basis. They have created an alternate legal reality for themselves.

Four issues without legal import, whereas this one does* - making it inherently more dishonorable to spread and therefore not worth engaging.

Because it concerns matters of law, it is not worth engaging? Why on earth would that be? I would think that matters of fact concerning the law regarding the President's eligibility for office would be much more worthwhile to engage than somebody's personal beliefs.

Because it concerns matters of law, it is not worth engaging? Why on earth would that be? I would think that matters of fact concerning the law regarding the President's eligibility for office would be much more worthwhile to engage than somebody's personal beliefs.

Obama already satisfied the law. You think he is obligated to satisfy laws that are made up by crazy people?

@Ritmo: What you do is not honorable. You just snark at people trying to make them feel inferior to you.

Oh, thanks for arguing with me on a level where you see us as equals! So honorable. And no snark! How could I forget how "dishonorable" Jon Stewart is. Well, I wish I could make my snark as talented as his, but I guess unlike some people, I can accept my limitations in life without feeling inferior about them.

You damage every cause you espouse, because people will not listen to anything substantive you have to say.

Intentionally ignorant people, yes. I admit that I somehow find a way to make that sort feel emboldened and enraged - almost to the point where they turn themselves into self-parody. Oh well. Nobody's perfect.

Your next incarnation might argue differently, and I'd treat you a lot nicer, and people would be more willing to listen to your arguments and be persuaded to the positions you hold.

You know as well as I do that no matter how "nicely" we treat everyone, there are rabid nutters everywhere who will rage against you on account of taking a position that challenges/or shatters their raison d'etre. You're being subjected to it right now, as a matter of fact. It's a matter of taste that you choose to treat these people in a way that you feel makes them respect you. But I'm simply not convinced of why I should want the respect of these sorts.

But all you do know is Team Blue feces-flinging.

Well, you could say that - among other things. I also contributed a number of objective facts and observations that the non-nutters saw no reason to characterize that way.

"|[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that ”every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is”, in the language of your Constitution itself, ”a natural born citizen”…. "

Vattels Law of Nations:

"The Natives, or natural born Citizens, are those born in a country of it's Citizens"

Minor v. Happersett and Wong Kim Ark:

"The Constitution does not in words say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. "

Pretty plain to see that Obama, born British is ALREADY ineligible, by his own story, no matter if born in the Oval Office. His dad was Kenyan, never US Citizen, and passed Obama 1 British Citizenship.

Because it concerns matters of law, it is not worth engaging? Why on earth would that be? I would think that matters of fact concerning the law regarding the President's eligibility for office would be much more worthwhile to engage than somebody's personal beliefs.

Even lawyers have standards that require an empirical, rather than just theoretical basis. If there was anything close to the evidence required to file suit or proceed further, that would have happened. There wasn't, and it didn't, and therefore, all that remains is the spectacle that is being dishonorably furthered and that should not be engaged among anyone with respectable standing in our politics or media.

"Because it concerns matters of law, it is not worth engaging? Why on earth would that be? I would think that matters of fact concerning the law regarding the President's eligibility for office would be much more worthwhile to engage than somebody's personal beliefs.

Even lawyers have standards that require an empirical, rather than just theoretical basis. If there was anything close to the evidence required to file suit or proceed further, that would have happened. There wasn't, and it didn't, and therefore, all that remains is the spectacle that is being dishonorably furthered and that should not be engaged among anyone with respectable standing in our politics or media."

How does it feel to be a bootlicking Obama internet operative? To aid in treason against this country?

The press already DID engage on this, and this is why the state government said they had seen the birth certificate. They did take the trouble to refute it. They have refuted it for all reasonable people who have any factual of knowledge of what birth certificates and how they work, as opposed to standards that they just make up.

No, they didn't. No one in the press has claimed to have seen the original birth certificate.

My "original" birth certificate is not even available to me. It may no longer exist, because I was adopted, but even if it does I cannot demand to see it or have it "released".

Obama was not adopted, and his original birth certificate can be assumed to exist with all the rest of them from the same time period.

I completely agree with you that the whole thing is silly. But it's a belief that has seeped into the mainstream. It's not just a bunch of fringe die-hards that believe this anymore.

The same poll that showed a quarter of Americans thinking he was born elsewhere, showed four in ten at least not being sure where he was born. That's not good. It should be addressed. You might have some fanatics not convinced by anything, but I don't think that's true of the general public.

How does it feel to be a bootlicking Obama internet operative? To aid in treason against this country?

I suppose this is an example of the sort of worthy heart and mind I'm supposed to change. Oh well.

I'll try to be more selective in whom I respond to in order to stay polite, per Mojo's (and Hanna's) advice. There comes a point when everything worth saying has already been said. I (and the evidence and decent arguments) can only do so much.

Even lawyers have standards that require an empirical, rather than just theoretical basis. If there was anything close to the evidence required to file suit or proceed further, that would have happened. There wasn't, and it didn't, and therefore, all that remains is the spectacle that is being dishonorably furthered and that should not be engaged among anyone with respectable standing in our politics or media.

Again, we're not talking about a court of law. We're talking about the press.

The idea that the press cannot report on matters with possible legal implications until a case goes forward is absurd on its face.

Again, we're not talking about a court of law. We're talking about the press.

Is it not crazy for the media to engage something that is only being pursued for how it could change our country through legal means, when there is no evidentiary basis for any legal action? We ARE talking about the press. And you think the press should not have sufficient knowledge of or respect for the law to avoid acting on and directing their coverage on the basis of, the threat of FAKE lawsuits?

Here's a solution: Let's have a competing, FAKE media that will concern itself with the threat of FAKE lawsuits built on the idea of pursuing FAKE evidence. Oh, wait...

I was born in Detroit, MI in 1946. I received my SSN from Minnesota sometime when I was a teenager. They do things differently now.

Mr. Hanna, you made a convincing case of someone being adopted having a birth certificate containing his/her adopted name only, if obama was adopted, shouldn't his birth certificate indicate his adopted name then?

Freeman,Obama was adopted, which is why he went by Barry Soetero before he reverted to his birth name.

However, that is neither here nor there at this point. The press is playing up the "birthers" in order to associate Republicans with "wingnuts" in the public's mind, and that is about all there is to it.

The same poll that showed a quarter of Americans thinking he was born elsewhere, showed four in ten at least not being sure where he was born. That's not good. It should be addressed. You might have some fanatics not convinced by anything, but I don't think that's true of the general public.

So where does it end? Similar percentages of Americans believe in UFOs and astrology. The reasonableness of a proposition is not affected by the number of fools who believe it, or don't.

So how much nonsense do we have to spend our time on, simply because you can find 25% of Americans who think there might be something to it?

"Obama was not adopted, and his original birth certificate can be assumed to exist with all the rest of them from the same time period.

I have a better idea. Let's not assume anything.

Let's see it.

Show me.

Barack Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. He's not an American citizen. That's why he can't produce an original long-form birth certificate.

One doesn't exist."

The question is whether Obama is a natural born Citizen, not "citizen"The birth story Obama has told, of his birth to a Kenyan father, already eliminates his eligibility as a natural born Citizen. He was born British. Do you really think the foundres would have considered someone born British (except themselves, thus the grandfather clause: "or a citizen at the time...") to be eligibile to be CIC of the US armed forces? It is just silly to even think so.

"How does it feel to be a bootlicking Obama internet operative? To aid in treason against this country?

I suppose this is an example of the sort of worthy heart and mind I'm supposed to change. Oh well.

I'll try to be more selective in whom I respond to in order to stay polite, per Mojo's (and Hanna's) advice. There comes a point when everything worth saying has already been said. I (and the evidence and decent arguments) can only do so much."

Perfect example of the Obama Internet Cy Ops, inventing supposed "conservatives" on the internet to bash "birthers" as unconstructive and crazy (typical Alinsky). WHERE does it say that one born of foreign citizenship can be CIC of the US Armed forces?

Cite an actual court rejecting the state-issued birth certificate and demanding the sekrit "longform" you invented, or STFU.

You've spent hours talking about Obama's penis and golf clubs. You had time insult me. you don;t have time to search Google for a court case that would provide evidence for this imaginary standard you invented?

Why is that Ut?

Because you got nothing. You have no evidence. You just repeat the same lie over and over hoping it sticks.

Cite an actual court rejecting the state-issued birth certificate and demanding the sekrit "longform" you invented, or STFU.

You've spent hours talking about Obama's penis and golf clubs. You had time insult me. you don;t have time to search Google for a court case that would provide evidence for this imaginary standard you invented?

Why is that Ut?

Because you got nothing. You have no evidence. You just repeat the same lie over and over hoping it sticks."

No evidence is needed. Obama has NEVER submitted any evidence to ANY authority that he was born in Hi. a pic on a website is proof of NOTHING. Regardless, he has already admitted his ineligibility by admitting to British Citizenship at birth, so he cannot be natural born, even if born in the White House.

"Barack Obama is residing today in the White House, using CT SS number 042-68-4425, issued in CT in and around March 1977 to an elderly individual named John Paul Ludwig, who was born in 1890, who is presumed dead and whose death was either never reported to the SS administration or reported and deleted from the database by someone."

...the spokesman for the attorney general's office, said state law does not in fact permit the release of "vital records," including an original "record of live birth" — even to the individual whose birth it records.

"It's a Department of Health record and it can't be released to anybody," he said. Nor do state laws have any provision that authorizes such records to be photocopied, Wisch said. If Obama wanted to personally visit the state health department, he would be permitted to inspect his birth record, Wisch said.

But if he or anybody else wanted a copy of their birth records, they would be told to fill out the appropriate state form and receive back the same computer generated "certification of live birth" form that everybody else gets — which is exactly what Obama did four years ago

I don't know if Hawaii has different rules than the rest of the United States (I doubt it) but...

A certificate of live birth is NOT the same thing as a certified birth certificate. In California, the first one means nothing. It is a cute thing that the hospital gives you and sometimes has the child's foot prints on it. I still have my daughter's certificate of live birth. It is not a legal document and cannot be used for any purpose.

You need to have a CERTIFIED birth certificate which is issued by the County in which you were born. It generally has a raised or embossed seal.

"A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth."

The cost to get a CERTIFIED copy is minimal.

I don't see why Obama will not provide this, unless there is something embarassing on it....or it doesn't exist because Obama was likely hatched on a rock.

In any case. The Certificate of Live Birth is NOT the same thing as a Certified Birth Certificate.