Future Frosting nerf too much?

Alright so lots of posts have gone by and I don’t feel like quoting each one, so I’ll just talk about what many of these posts are discussing.
Achievements
The only achievement you need to rely on others for is floor is lava, otherwise you can get them on your own.
Slowness
Let me go back to what I said when I started this thread. As a heavy frosting user myself, even I’ll admit that the snowballs are overpowered. Frosting is an achievement kit, so it deserves to be strong, but right now it’s too strong. I didn’t say the future frosting nerfs were not needed, I said they were too much, meaning something in between what frosting is now and what it would be without the slowness. I mentioned reducing the effect and duration of the slowness, which would honestly balance it out. Or like others have said, increasing the quantity of the snowballs if the slowness effect were removed completely. I can’t deny that frosting is overpowered at the moment, but the planned nerfs are too much. Again, I feel that reducing the effect and duration of the slowness instead of removing it completely, or remove the slowness but increasing the quantity of snowballs would balance the kit while still keeping it strong.

Also I saw people saying that by removing the slowness but increasing the quantity of snowballs it isn’t really a ‘nerf’. It’s more of a rebalance, the slowness is what makes snowballs overpowered is it not? By removing it, but increasing the amount of snowballs, they wouldn’t be so overpowered but the frosting player will be able to use them more freely, which, given the slowness is totally removed, would be fine since the snowballs themselves aren’t overpowered. Or as I mentioned several times, reducing the effectiveness of the slow and how long it lasts on the affected player while leaving the quantity as it is could balance out the kit.

Nope. Frosting is an achievement kit, so it deserves to be fun, rewarding and unique.

Kits in general do not work if one is clearly superior, they work when each kit offers a different playstyle. The concept of the Cake Wars kits has that: 1 long range kit - Archer, 1 close range kit - Warrior, 1 mid range kit - Frosting, and 1 utility kit - Builder. Frosting isn't really mid range but you get what I mean.

But there is a clear hierarchy: There's Frosting, then a way down is Builder, then there's a colossal gulf between Builder, and Archer and Warrior. This is not what we want. We want the achievement kit to offer a unique playstyle which is rewarding, but not rewarding as in you get free combos.

So, our aim - to make the game balanced - is to buff Warrior and Archer to Builder level, and nerf Frosting so it's on par with Builder. Last time I checked Warrior and Archer had planned buffs, so we can forget about them temporarily. But you're suggesting nerfing Frosting in one way, but buffing it in another. We can't do this. We need to nerf Frosting, so also buffing it defeats the entire purpose.

As I mentioned several times, reducing the effectiveness of the slow and how long it lasts on the affected player while leaving the quantity as it is could balance out the kit.

Click to expand...

This would balance out the kit relative to the average kit across every minigame. But the kits Frosting is fighting against (Warrior and Archer) are not the average kit, they're below average. One average kit (Frosting) versus a below-average kit (Warrior or Archer) still isn't fair. Builder would also lose to Frosting in pvp, but since it was a kit not designed for pvp, that is to be expected, so I can't say Frosting should also be nerfed because it beats Builder. And remember that just because a kit is an Achievement kit, doesn't mean it is objectively better. It should always beat some kits (Builder), win some fights (Warrior), and always lose to another kit (Archer).

Think of Cake Wars like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Archer is rock, Warrior is Paper, and Frosting is Scissors. You're saying that because Frosting is an achievement kit, it should be stronger than everything else. That's like saying scissors should not only beat paper, but also rock. This isn't fair, and breaks the game, as I am sure you can see.

A fair game would have scissors beat paper, and rock beat scissors. A fair game would have Frosting lose to some kits and win against others.

Just because you like scissors doesn't mean it should win against both paper and rock. Just because you like Frosting and it's an achievement kit doesn't mean it should win against both Warrior and Archer.

Nope. Frosting is an achievement kit, so it deserves to be fun, rewarding and unique.

Kits in general do not work if one is clearly superior, they work when each kit offers a different playstyle. The concept of the Cake Wars kits has that: 1 long range kit - Archer, 1 close range kit - Warrior, 1 mid range kit - Frosting, and 1 utility kit - Builder. Frosting isn't really mid range but you get what I mean.

But there is a clear hierarchy: There's Frosting, then a way down is Builder, then there's a colossal gulf between Builder, and Archer and Warrior. This is not what we want. We want the achievement kit to offer a unique playstyle which is rewarding, but not rewarding as in you get free combos.

So, our aim - to make the game balanced - is to buff Warrior and Archer to Builder level, and nerf Frosting so it's on par with Builder. Last time I checked Warrior and Archer had planned buffs, so we can forget about them temporarily. But you're suggesting nerfing Frosting in one way, but buffing it in another. We can't do this. We need to nerf Frosting, so also buffing it defeats the entire purpose.

Click to expand...

Never said frosting should be far superior to the other kits, I only said it deserves to be strong. And yes, archer and warrior do need a buff. Where I disagree with you is when you talk about the frosting nerf. I’m suggesting either nerfing it a bit less than planned (reducing slowness) or to increase the amount of snowballs if the slowness is removed. It seems like it would be OP right now, but keep in mind that’s IF the slowness is removed, in which case having more snowballs wouldn’t be overpowered. It would allow frosting users to use their snowballs more freely but the snowballs still wouldn’t be overpowered without their slowness.

Think of Cake Wars like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Archer is rock, Warrior is Paper, and Frosting is Scissors. You're saying that because Frosting is an achievement kit, it should be stronger than everything else. That's like saying scissors should not only beat paper, but also rock. This isn't fair, and breaks the game, as I am sure you can see.

A fair game would have scissors beat paper, and rock beat scissors. A fair game would have Frosting lose to some kits and win against others.

Just because you like scissors doesn't mean it should win against both paper and rock. Just because you like Frosting and it's an achievement kit doesn't mean it should win against both Warrior and Archer.

Click to expand...

I see what you’re saying as far as kits countering each other go, but it doesn’t really work that way in cake wars. Also, cake wars is not, and most certainly should not, be anything like a game of Rock Paper Scissors. Rock Paper Scissors is a game almost entirely of luck, (and a little bit being able to predict your opponent but still mostly luck) and cakewars is a game of skill and strategy. In terms of kits, this statement is a little more valid, but it still doesn’t really work that way. It’s not just one kit beats another and that’s that. Each kit gives an advantage in a certain situation, archer can attack from range, builder can rush faster and platform suffocate, frosting is good for starting combos, Warrior is good for fighting multiple people, you get the idea.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this but I wanted to add that it seems like frosting reduces your range for hitting players. I'm not all sure if this is true (and I attribute it to the slowness).

Click to expand...

It doesn't reduce your range, and as far as I know, no plugin can. It's just that the slowness also makes your FoV (field of view) smaller, which makes distances warped. Also, if someone's attacking you and they're repeatedly pressure w then you can't hit them, no matter if you're snowball or not.

It doesn't reduce your range, and as far as I know, no plugin can. It's just that the slowness also makes your FoV (field of view) smaller, which makes distances warped. Also, if someone's attacking you and they're repeatedly pressure w then you can't hit them, no matter if you're snowball or not.

Click to expand...

the Slowness kills your momentum so the other person will pretty much always get that first hit if both players are aiming right. It's like the same thing as trying to hit while shifting.

As for the OP, I stick by my earlier comment. Nerf is fine, let the kit be balanced.

That's the whole point of frosting being an achievement kit. It's a kit that can be used easily / better than the other payed kits.

Click to expand...

No, that’s not the purpose of an achievement kit. The purpose is to give unique gameplay for users that have completed all the achievements. In no way is it fair for an already experienced players to have a bigger advantage.

Games are balanced to be balanced, not so that you’ll feel a certain way.

x

No, that’s not the purpose of an achievement kit. The purpose is to give unique gameplay for users that have completed all the achievements. In no way is it fair for an already experienced players to have a bigger advantage.

Games are balanced to be balanced, not so that you’ll feel a certain way.

Click to expand...

Honestly, the first question, isn’t it self-explanatory? Seeming you are part of GI, you should know that a nerf can’t be put in place, if the community isn’t happy with it.

The second part, I’ve changed my opinion and I know that’s not actually the purpose of an achievement kit, so in future I would be grateful if you stopped quoting me on the same point I previously stated.

Honestly, the first question, isn’t it self-explanatory? Seeming you are part of GI, you should know that a nerf can’t be put in place, if the community isn’t happy with it.

Click to expand...

Majority of GI agrees with the nerf, along with most of the community. Even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t see it fair to reject a nerf just because you (in general) don’t like it, without providing reasons that are relevant to game balancing.

So I’ve heard that the slowness effect is going to be removed completely from frosting, and while I will say frosting is definitely overpowered at the moment, I think that’s too much of a nerf. First off, that would defeat the entire point of frosting and the kit would probably become underpowered and make grinding the achievements not even worth it. I’d say itd be better to reduce the slowness to 1 from 2, and maybe reduce the duration of it as well. Frosting would still be a strong kit but wouldn’t be as overwhelming as it is now. Secondly, frosting does take skill to use, despite what many people will tell you. The most fundamental uses for frosting that I’ve seen such as engaging with it at least would require you to aim and time the snowballs properly. If you mess this up then you would just be better off with a different kit. Also using snowballs similarly to a rod in battle is even harder. If you mistime a snowball or just miss it completely, not only does it do nothing for you, but it will hurt you if you’re mid fight. So yeah, frosting is definitely overpowered at the moment, but it also requires timing and precision to utilize to its fullest. I’ll say it does need a nerf, but the slowness effect shouldn’t just be completely removed.

Click to expand...

Slowness should be removed, yes. Not only do the snowballs act as a rod they also give slowness. Those achievements aren't even something that is extremely hard. In a week or less of grinding you could have the kit in your hands and you will get a lot of kills from just knocking back people and slowing them at the same time...

Part 1: I definitely think slowness should be removed. Doesn’t require much skill to look at someone, kill their momentum by clicking and then hot keying to where your weapon is. I’d vouch for maybe more max snowball with slowness removed so it could be used as a combo starter/breaker.
Part 2: I think kits should affect gameplay but also require skill to use. Right now with froster, doesn’t really take much skill. Now with builder, there’s no combat advantage so it takes actual pvp skill and the kit can be used strategically. Another good example of this would be the shocking hider kit in block hunt (only other game I’m really familiar with lol), it’s not overpowered and requires pvp skill to use properly. Kits should aid the player in a certain aspect of the game but they shouldn’t make it near impossible for the opposing team/players to win; it should be balanced.

Part 1: I definitely think slowness should be removed. Doesn’t require much skill to look at someone, kill their momentum by clicking and then hot keying to where your weapon is. I’d vouch for maybe more max snowball with slowness removed so it could be used as a combo starter/breaker.
Part 2: I think kits should affect gameplay but also require skill to use. Right now with froster, doesn’t really take much skill. Now with builder, there’s no combat advantage so it takes actual pvp skill and the kit can be used strategically. Another good example of this would be the shocking hider kit in block hunt (only other game I’m really familiar with lol), it’s not overpowered and requires pvp skill to use properly. Kits should aid the player in a certain aspect of the game but they shouldn’t make it near impossible for the opposing team/players to win; it should be balanced.

Click to expand...

Couldn't agree with you more. Kits should be used to aid the player and not just make it more challenging and frustrating for the opposing player.

Frosting is incredibly frustrating for newbies who are getting used to cake wars and already aren't too good at pvp. Frosting makes it impossible for a newbie to win at pvp. They are already at a disadvantage due to the skill gap and frosting only servers to exacerbate the disadvantage.

Part 1: I definitely think slowness should be removed. Doesn’t require much skill to look at someone, kill their momentum by clicking and then hot keying to where your weapon is. I’d vouch for maybe more max snowball with slowness removed so it could be used as a combo starter/breaker.
Part 2: I think kits should affect gameplay but also require skill to use. Right now with froster, doesn’t really take much skill. Now with builder, there’s no combat advantage so it takes actual pvp skill and the kit can be used strategically. Another good example of this would be the shocking hider kit in block hunt (only other game I’m really familiar with lol), it’s not overpowered and requires pvp skill to use properly. Kits should aid the player in a certain aspect of the game but they shouldn’t make it near impossible for the opposing team/players to win; it should be balanced.

Click to expand...

I do agree that if the slowness were removed entirely increasing the quantity of snowballs is good too.

But frosting definitely takes skill. It’s not as simple as “looking at someone and clicking”. That would be like saying pvp takes no skill because you’re just looking at someone and clicking, which obviously isn’t true. The most simple use of snowballs is to engage with them, and if you only to that you’d probably only hit 1 snowball per fight unless you or your opponent disengages. Where it takes skill is when you use them mid fight, as it requires you to switch to your snowball, time it, aim it, throw it, and switch back to your weapon all within fractions of a second. If you mess up even one of those it may cost you the fight. You might accidentally punch someone with the snowball instead of your sword, block your sword instead of throwing the snowball, miss the snowball, throw a snowball when you should have swung with your sword, etc. I can go on at length about why frosting does take skill to use effectively.

You're correct, it takes skill to use it effectively. But it does not take skill to use it. Most pvp situations I find myself in, I am hit with a snowball before the fighting even starts and then they straight line me due to slowness. If someone has the skill to use frosting effectively then they can essentially win every single 1v1, which isn't fair.

Slowness before a pvp is insane to me. Once a player uses frosting, they can immediately get a combo. The only way for the other play to not die is to just forfeit the pvp and run away. As of now, frosting is overpowered and needs a nerf.

Share This Page

New Posts

I remember first playing mineplex many years ago. The first games I played were One In The Quiver and Turf Wars. It's good to see that these games are still on the server. I also played a lot of Micro Battles years ago but overall Turf Wars and One In The Quiver are the first ever games I remember playing.…

Yeah, as said by Tay, StaffRequest is pretty much the only community with this particular problem, and things can go off topic from there but it's more of a mentality problem than a flawed system. If mini modding was not allowed in the community then nobody would make a fuss out of one or two off topic messages, so I can see that as a way to solve that, but in general it's just too…

Hii there!
I absoloutley loved building with you. These came out looking so nice, I love them so much! It was such a pleasure <3 You're super talented in building these too, and they're all super creative and unique. Keep it up amazing!…

This is my first time asking for buffs and nerfs to anything. (Note that all of this is my opinion and I haven't played a lot of SSM for most of these suggestions to be agreeable. Especially since I don't have Sir. Sheep and Villager)But without further ado, here are some needed Nerfs/Buffs for SSM kits. (Also note that not all…

I agree with this, and I feel that enderman is kind of underrated. Not many people use it but the ones I do see using it are super powerful with it and it's really annoying to fight when it can drain half of my life in two hits. And I don't even use chicken. I use squid. So yeah I do think some things should be nerfed. For starters, I think that the melee damage should be reduced and…

Hey!
I actually made a thread on this awhile ago that I will link here.
The answers I had gotten seemed to tell me it was a bug and it might be the version of Minecraft you play Mineplex on (Java Platforms). If you wanna submit a bug report, you can do so here. If you choose to submit a bug report, I would recommend reading over the…

Heres my strat.
Strategy 1: get emerald beacons or tell your team to do that. Once you have enough resources attack other bases. Best done with teamate.
Strat 2(for pvp gods): Get pickaxe, sword and wool and rush to other teams and kill them all. Them get emeralds and kill the other teams.…

"That feed only exists because it ships with xenforo." via wanderer.
We won't be removing it. You can choose to use it as it is or don't use it at all. You can try caching your own requests if you know how to.
Message me with further questions or concerns.…

Hey!
I personally don't think this idea is neccessary.
As @SpyNinja__ mentioned, NANO game's "quick" already has a lot of Bawk Bawk's games implemented, I also think that "quick" is way too similar to Bawk Bawk. I think adding Bawk Bawk games would also be too long for a NANO game. The purpose of NANO games is to be quick/short mini-games…