Hey.......if wind can stand on its own without government subsidies, I'm all for it. But this crack monkey idea that we can try to get to all wind/solar energy is as stupid as stupid gets.................

To illustrate...................if this were the case in Britain last Jan and Feb when there was record cold and virtually no wind...............MILLIONS would have died. Funny because isnt it the k00k environmentalists who are always talking "catastrophy"??

Wind farms provide only 3.5% of U.S. energy
By Rolf E. Westgard

Professional Member, Geological Society of America

On May 24 this year, President Obama visited wind turbine blade manufacturer TPI Composites in Newton, Iowa. There he announced that his &#8220;To Do List&#8221; for Congress, included extending the wind energy&#8217;s Production Tax Credit (PTC). The PTC, which expires at the end of 2012, gives 2.2 cents per kilowatt hour(kwh) to wind energy producers. For all of 2012, U.S. wind farms are expected to provide about 3.5 percent of U.S. electric power, or 145 billion kwh, making wind producers eligible for $3 billion in tax credit subsidies.

On May 30, candidate Mitt Romney took up Obama&#8217;s Iowa challenge to his energy policies. Romney&#8217;s campaign spokes person told the Des Moines Register that Romney &#8220;will allow the wind credit to expire in 2012, end the stimulus boondoggles, and create a level playing field on which all sources of energy can compete on their merits.&#8221;

Through 2011, the wind industry had the option of a 30 percent investment tax credit that could be received as up-front cash grants, instead of having to wait until power was generated. Of the most recent $1 billion in wind energy grants handed out by the government, 85 percent &#8212; a total of $849 million &#8212; has gone to foreign wind turbine companies, such as Germany&#8217;s Siemens , Spain&#8217;s Gamesa, India&#8217;s Suzlon, and Denmark&#8217;s Vestas. Spanish utility company, Iberdrola S.A. alone has collected $545 million in recent years through its American subsidiary.

The head of Vestas, the world&#8217;s biggest wind turbine maker, has said that the U.S. wind turbine market is likely to fall by 80 percent next year if the PTC for wind expires. Vestas also warned that failure to extend the PTC could force it to cut 1,600 U.S. jobs. By contrast, a study by Wood MacKenzie reports that new U.S. oil and gas production could create an additional one million U.S. jobs by 2018.

The residents of Obama&#8217;s home state of Illinois sweltered along with the rest of us as the Midwest experienced record high July temperatures. Power demand soared as all ACs were on full. The Illinois legislature has enacted strong renewable portfolio standards(RPS), and 2,900 megawatts(MW) of wind power (same as Minnesota) were standing ready with electrons. And that&#8217;s just what they did &#8212; stood by with motionless turbine blades. Fortunately, Illinois nuclear plants ran around the clock, and all Illinois ACs stayed on.

As usual on those hot muggy days, there wasn&#8217;t a &#8216;breath of air&#8217;. Chicago temps were high on July 6, and 2,900 MW of wind capacity managed 4 MW, enough to power a very small Chicago neighborhood. For that week, Illinois wind turbines averaged about 10 percent of rated capacity.

During 2012 to date, our nation&#8217;s 50,000 MW of wind capacity are producing an intermittent and unpredictable 29 percent of capacity. This is a major reason why wind energy needs those subsidies.

Subsidy data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration(EIA) shows that on a per unit of energy produced basis, oil and gas producers receive $0.28 cents; nuclear receives $1.79; biofuels got $20.37; and for wind it was $32.59.

Britain is a world leader in wind with a subsidized program to take advantage of the windiest conditions in Europe. But its program continues to fail. Figures released in early January showed that as temperatures plunged to well below freezing and electric power demand soared, electricity production at Britain&#8217;s 3,100 wind turbines fell from an average of 8.6 percent of Britain&#8217;s electricity mix to just 1.8 percent. On the evening of Dec. 20, Britain&#8217;s average temperature fell to minus 5.6 Celsius. At 6:30 that evening, Britain&#8217;s wind farms, which have a generating capacity of 5,200 MW of electricity, were actually generating 40 MW.

As Jeremy Nicholson, director of the UK Energy Intensive Users Group, states, &#8220;What is worrying is that these sorts of figures are not a one-off. It was exactly the same last January and February when high pressure brought freezing cold temperatures, snow and no wind.&#8221; Nicholson added, &#8220;We can cope at the moment because there is still not that much power generated by wind. What happens when we are dependent on wind turbines for more of our power, and there is suddenly a period when the wind does not blow and there is high demand?&#8221;

So ummm.............pardon me if I laugh my balls off whenever the topic of "warming" comes up. Indeed..........those getting all giddy over it fail to recognize there isnt DICK we can do about it even if it is real. Or what........in a bad cold snap, do we keep each other warm by going out and farting on each other?

Well let's see. Wind power you just build a wind turbine and it will keep producing power year after year.

Advantages of wind are simply that you don't have to drill for natural gas, oil or mine coal. The earths weather system makes more and more wind. So once you put up the wind turbine it starts paying its self off.

Wind is limitless! Why not use it? Another thing the UK is building offshore wind farms. Wind farms over the ocean have much more constant wind.

Wind almost never generates power when you need it & only makes power when you don't. Wind energy production is completely out of phase with demand. Texas Wind Energy Fails, Again At 10% installed wind-generation capacity Texas wind capacity is way over built & spilling off power. Likely 7% is all the useful wind capacity we can achieve & it comes at a high price since you still have to build the same amount of Coal & Natural Gas capacity as you would without wind.

Well let's see. Wind power you just build a wind turbine and it will keep producing power year after year.

Advantages of wind are simply that you don't have to drill for natural gas, oil or mine coal. The earths weather system makes more and more wind. So once you put up the wind turbine it starts paying its self off.

Wind is limitless! Why not use it? Another thing the UK is building offshore wind farms. Wind farms over the ocean have much more constant wind.

Click to expand...

The paragraph highlighted in red in the first post speaks for itself, although I do acknowledge that about 20% of the population view the world from a highly idealistic perspective.

Could you imagine if these people were left to make the decisions in the world?

Well let's see. Wind power you just build a wind turbine and it will keep producing power year after year.

Advantages of wind are simply that you don't have to drill for natural gas, oil or mine coal. The earths weather system makes more and more wind. So once you put up the wind turbine it starts paying its self off.

Wind is limitless! Why not use it? Another thing the UK is building offshore wind farms. Wind farms over the ocean have much more constant wind.

Click to expand...

Wind turbines rarely (if ever) pay for themselves. Consumer Reports installed one and in their words it would take millenia for it to repay itself.

"Generous federal and local rebates and credits have helped put wind power on a growing list of options that use the forces of nature to trim your electricity bill. But our early tests of one wind turbine suggest that you could save far less than the manufacturer claimsand wait decades for your investment to pay for itself.

Wind turbines are supposed to save by powering your home and sending or selling any unused energy they create to a utility so that it can credit you that amount. At about $11,000 installed, the Honeywell WT6500 Wind Turbine we're testing at our Yonkers, N.Y., headquarters costs less than many wind systems, even before rebates. It's warranted for five years and can be ordered through True Value stores, from dealers and online, and at some Ace stores. And it's among the few that can mount on a roof. Low noise is an added talking point for this 6-foot-diameter turbine, which was about as loud as a library whisper in our tests. Its bicycle-wheel design is also claimed to be easier for birds to see than three-blade turbines.

WindTronics, which makes the system, says it can deliver 18 to 23 percent of an average home's annual electricity needs, depending on wind speed. That should mean our system pays for itself in about six years, given the energy it should create in our area, the 30 percent federal tax credit for small turbines, and the thousands in state rebates.

But so far, we've seen only a fraction of the total power that WindTronics says we should for our area, even after several visits from a company-authorized installer. At that rate, the Honeywell wouldn't pay its way over its expected life of 20 years.

We'll be updating our data during the next year and will report on further developments as we continue testing. Still, our early results highlight some key steps to take before opting for any wind turbine:"

Wind almost never generates power when you need it & only makes power when you don't. Wind energy production is completely out of phase with demand. Texas Wind Energy Fails, Again At 10% installed wind-generation capacity Texas wind capacity is way over built & spilling off power. Likely 7% is all the useful wind capacity we can achieve & it comes at a high price since you still have to build the same amount of Coal & Natural Gas capacity as you would without wind.

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Clearly the wind doesn't blow at peak usage in Texas eh? And that looks like an EXCELLENT week or two where you don't daylong gaps!!!

I'm waiting for some bright econaut to point out how efficient it would be to cover those windless afternoons with Solar..

Well let's see. Wind power you just build a wind turbine and it will keep producing power year after year.

Advantages of wind are simply that you don't have to drill for natural gas, oil or mine coal. The earths weather system makes more and more wind. So once you put up the wind turbine it starts paying its self off.

Wind is limitless! Why not use it? Another thing the UK is building offshore wind farms. Wind farms over the ocean have much more constant wind.

Click to expand...

And what's wrong with oil, natural gas, and coal.

I also challenge you to tell us what's right with oil, natural gas, and coal.

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