/m/community

Reader Comments and Retorts

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

6, 7, and 9: Thanks very much. I saw Sonnanstine had a career 112 OPS+ (26 plate appearances!), and that he's pinch-hit twice thsi season... I was really hoping there was a better reason than that, heh.

People do remember that Clemens played for the Jays (since he did win the pair of Cy Young awards in his brief time). Personally, I'd replace him with Phil Niekro, who gave the Jays three disastrous stats in 1987, before returning to Atlanta for his farewell game.

On September 5, 1976, New York Yankees starting pitcher Catfish Hunter pinch-hit for second baseman Sandy Alomar in top of the 6th inning and stayed in the lineup as the pitcher for the Yankees in the bottom half of the inning. Cesar Tovar, the one-time designated hitter in the game, then took over at second base. [7] (Note: There is now a section of the rule that states that the game pitcher may only pinch-hit for the designated hitter; therefore, this move would have been allowed then, but now it would be prohibited.)

During the month of September, 1980, Baltimore Orioles manager Earl Weaver inserted a pitcher into the DH slot but would use a hitting specialist (such as Benny Ayala or Terry Crowley) to pinch-hit when the designated hitter's first turn came up. There was a game on September 17, 1980, during which the Orioles and the Detroit Tigers both used the short-lived strategy. [9] (Note: Due to the loophole taken advantage of by Earl Weaver, there was a rule change shortly thereafter that states the DH must come to bat at least once, unless the opposing team changes pitchers.)

I'm trying to figure out what the advantage was. Surely the PH couldn't come back into the game. Like Crowley batting in the first and 6th and Ayala in the 4th.

[28]. They wouldn't be pinch-hitters, but they'd assume the DH spot for the rest of the game. The only advantage I can see is it would allow you to delay your choice of DH until his turn in the order came up.

Note: Due to the loophole taken advantage of by Earl Weaver, there was a rule change shortly thereafter that states the DH must come to bat at least once, unless the opposing team changes pitchers

So I know is a hugely unlikely event, but what happens if Travis Hafner is on-deck for his first AB, taking a practice swing and his knee gives out? Is the rule that he just has to limp up and make the best he can of it?

The only advantage I can see is it would allow you to delay your choice of DH until his turn in the order came up.

That's exactly the advantage. It's not a big advantage, as you can see, but Weaver wasn't one to pass up any advantage, no matter how small.

OK, but the rule that says that you forefit the DH if he takes the field means that you could only do it in road games and the DH had better be batting 1, 2, or 3. So does it really gain you anything to delay your DH choice for , at most, 2 batters?

edit. But how to reconcile this?

There was a game on September 17, 1980, during which the Orioles and the Detroit Tigers both used the short-lived strategy.

From Wiki:

The designated hitter could also become the pitcher, in which case the pitcher or a pinch hitter must hit when that spot in the batting order comes up again.

Milt Wilcox was the Tigers listed DH and starting pitcher. He pitched the bottom of the first, and was pinch hit for in the top of the second. The guy who hit for him batted twice in the game. That conflicts with the rule, so that must be another change since 1980.

OK, but the rule that says that you forefit the DH if he takes the field means that you could only do it in road games and the DH had better be batting 1, 2, or 3. So does it really gain you anything to delay your DH choice for , at most, 2 batters?

No, Weaver would write in the name of a pitcher who wasn't pitching that night, so he wouldn't lose anyone.

So I know is a hugely unlikely event, but what happens if Travis Hafner is on-deck for his first AB, taking a practice swing and his knee gives out? Is the rule that he just has to limp up and make the best he can of it?

I assume it's some sort of double-switch in which the pitcher ends up batting for himself.

A few years ago Minnesota had Mauer DHing and the backup catcher catching. The backup got injured early in the game, so Mauer had to go behind the plate - and the pitcher batted the rest of the game.

It's a bit backwards of your example, but I assume something similar would happen. I can't imagine they'd make an injured player ever bat.

You must have missed all the times that it is brought up (mostly by me I suppose), that the Braves have never in their 130+ year existence, had anything close to a great player spend his entire career with them. The current best career (retired) Brave is either Rick Camp or Bruce Benedict.

You must have missed all the times that it is brought up (mostly by me I suppose), that the Braves have never in their 130+ year existence, had anything close to a great player spend his entire career with them. The current best career (retired) Brave is either Rick Camp or Bruce Benedict.

So what you are trying to tell us is that Chipper is going to end up retiring as a Met?

You must have missed all the times that it is brought up (mostly by me I suppose), that the Braves have never in their 130+ year existence, had anything close to a great player spend his entire career with them. The current best career (retired) Brave is either Rick Camp or Bruce Benedict.

How many pitchers have lengthy careers with one team? A look at the first third of HOFers from an alphabetical standpoint shows Drysdale, Faber, Feller, Ford, Gibson. The Red Sox best entire career pitcher is either Mel Parnell or Bob Stanley.

I'm trying to think of who it would be after Halladay. It's probably either someone who is still active (like Aaron Hill) or some generic starter/middle reliever. Almost every star I can think of for the Jays at least played a season or two somewhere else at the beginning or end of their career.

Ooh, that's not good when a franchise is almost 50 years old and its greatest "career player" is an active guy in his ninth full season. But it's pretty desperate - Rusty Greer was a better hitter than Young, but his career was even shorter. I don't know who the Rangers' best "career pitcher" would be, Roger Pavlik maybe.

I went looking to see if Luis Leal is really the best "career" Blue Jay, thinking that there HAD to be someone else.

Among retired players, he's it. It's hard to find ANY retired pitchers on the Blue Jays top 50 lists that had their full career as a Blue Jay. Even including active players, it goes Halladay, Leal, Frasor/Marcum.

Yech.

I gave up looking for any batters. Damn you, Lloyd Moseby and your brief Detroit career!

Ooh, that's not good when a franchise is almost 50 years old and its greatest "career player" is an active guy in his ninth full season. But it's pretty desperate - Rusty Greer was a better hitter than Young, but his career was even shorter.

Both of whom are far better than Bruce benedict. Some teams in recent years have made huge ugrades: Angels, Mariners, Astros. I really thought the Braves would join them.

Short career, obviously. Bates was one of the first Rockies ever. He played on the 1992 Bend Rockies (short season A ball), one of the minor league teams that played the season before the big league team debuted.

Roger Bailey, Quinton McCracken, and Craig Counsell were also on that team.

I'm most out of step with the results of the poll on Colletti ("Fans" have him 3rd to my 24th), Brian Cashman (2nd to 15th), Reagins (8th to 18th), Jocketty (14th to 28th), MacPhail (23rd to 10th), Minaya (25th to 12th) and Huntington (29th to 19th).

Usually having the best record in baseball, as the Dodgers do, suggests the team doesn't have the 24th best GM, but there could definitely be exceptions.

The guy that signed Juan Pierre, Andruw Jones, and Jason Schmidt to massive deals.

Signing a 34-year-old pitcher who had made 151 starts over the previous five years, with an ERA+ of 127, a record of 71-36, 1000 strikeouts (yes, exactly 1000) and 361 walks, to a three-year contract is a mark of incompetence?

It's a little late in the dugout for trivia - especially a question to which I don't the answer, but I'm curious...

Anyone know the longest streak a pitcher has ever maintained perfection -- i.e. consecutive batters retired without one reaching by any means?

I was thinking it would just be a matter of hitting retrosheet and looking at the before and after starts for all perfectos, but then I got to thinking that perhaps Eckersly, Quisenberry, Rivera or some reliever might have eclipsed it.

Jeff Clement removed from game in 3rd inning, Mariner blogosphere is het up about a trade.

EDIT: Jeff @ Lookout Landing: "Outside of Clement and one other Mariner minor league who you will probably not miss, nobody has any names right now. Nobody. Anything you hear is just speculation. All we can say is that we’re trading Clement and at least one other guy."