Starbucks has also been involved in pushing for legalization of same-sex “marriages.” Two years ago, Starbucks announced its support for Washington’s push to legalize such behavior under state law.

“Starbucks is proud to join other leading Northwest employers in support of Washington State legislation recognizing marriage equality for same-sex couples,” stated the company. “We are deeply dedicated to embracing diversity and treating one another with respect and dignity, and remain committed to providing an inclusive, supportive and safe work environment for all of our partners.”

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Neiman

These things are but signs of the evil times in which we are living. Homosexuality and gay marriage are but tools that Satan is using to persecute the Church and oppose Christ; and people like Breaud and companies like Starbucks and Target, will profit from their being children of the evil for a season; while Christians should pray for them, as unless they repent their everlasting torment will be horrible.

Sadly, how many Christians will be willing to buy coffee elsewhere as a protest against this evil?

I should mention that Seattle, the home base of Starbucks is one of the most Soviet minded cities in America.

Krauss Allie

Wow, so much stupid in one post I’m not sure where to start…. I suppose I’ll start at the end and work backward.

Seattle is home to Starbucks, this is true. I know of no connection between “Soviet-mindedness” and Seattle, but even if the Emerald City were teaming with Communists, just what kind of point are you even trying to make? I really hope all your thoughts aren’t this disjointed, but from the rest of your comment, I’m afraid they are. So, in your mind, did you really try to connect homosexuality with Communism through Seattle coffee????

Secondly, every Christian that is offended can go elsewhere for their coffee, and just like Target, and Honey Maid, nobody will care in the slightest bit. Christian’s previous attempts at boycott have been laughably ineffective, and painfully hypocritical unless you’re prepared to stop watching NASCAR and all major television networks, stop visiting Wal-mart, McDonalds,Bank of America, Capital One, and Allstate, and of course, you’d better stop using your computer, whether you’re on an Apple or a PC.

Nobody cares anymore about your antiquated views, and while you stick to your Holy Bible, young people are fleeing the church in record numbers largely because of Evangelical Christianity’s anti-gay stance.

I’ll humbly ask that you spare me any scripture since our laws are totally secular and Jesus Christ has no say over citizen’s rights, and don’t bother spout “love-the-sinner, not-the-sin”, because I read these posts regularly, and I see the vitriol contemporary Christians have for gays, Muslims, atheists, or anybody who may be different from you, despite being every bit an American citizen.

I’ll leave you with a paraphrase of something Robert Ingersoll once wrote:

“You are the inferior of any man whose rights you trample under foot.”

Good day, Dr. Allie Krauss, PhD

James Grimes

DOCTOR Krause, before calling someone stupid, please look in the mirror. BTW, I don’t think too many readers are impressed here with you referring to yourself as “doctor.” Your responses tell us everything we need to know about you.

Neiman

I will try and keep it simple, as it is obvious your major was in hate, not reason.

A. I was not talking about a boycott, I simply asked the rhetorical question about how many Christians would buy their coffee elsewhere as a matter of standing with God and against the pro-homosexual juggernaut (a literal or metaphorical force regarded as mercilessly destructive and unstoppable) by liberal minded companies, with Starbucks as a leading member among them.

B. Soviet minded and communist are not necessarily connected. I refer to the Soviet Mindset among most liberals today, which is passionately atheist, anti-Christ and wherein they demand submission to the Liberal Agenda or else; and, wherein everyone becomes a spy against everyone else, trying to silence all opposition via cheap political, criminal and civil thuggery.

C. God told us that in this time in human history there would be a great falling away from the faith, so the fact that young or old are turning away from God and towards a false, wholly anti-Christ liberal utopia is not only not surprising, but encouraging, as it is another sign that the return of the Lord is near.

D. No one’s rights are being trampled under foot except those of Christians, by the falsely called Progressives in this country. You and your fellow travelers have eviscerated the First Amendment protections of religious liberty, which I might I remind you, is not only the FIRST right enumerated therein, it is so because our founding fathers knew it to be the most important of all our rights, that without it being fiercely protected, the nation would fall into a moral abyss and fall from world power. To that last point, might I remind you that for the first time in almost 150 years, we are no longer the greatest economic power, officially taken over by The Peoples Republic of China last week and they are also rapidly becoming the greatest military power as well.

I agree with James Grimes, your pretense at having a PhD is laughable.

Phipps Mike

“. I refer to the Soviet Mindset among most liberals today, which is passionately atheist, anti-Christ ”

Jesus was a socialist. You fail. I also have hundreds of Liberal friends, only ONE likes the idea of communism.

“your pretense at having a PhD is laughable.”

I wasn’t aware that doctors all have to be anti-gay.

Neiman

Jesus was most certainly not a Socialist, He has already judged and is not part of this world system.

Again, a soviet mindset and communism are not interchangeable terms. I defined my terms: “I refer to the Soviet Mindset among most liberals today, which is
passionately atheist, anti-Christ and wherein they demand submission to the Liberal Agenda or else; and, wherein everyone becomes a spy against everyone else, trying to silence all opposition via cheap political, criminal and civil thuggery.”

The Liberal/Progressive movement is socialist and whether or not you or they like the idea, a Communist utopia is their ultimate goal.

I never said to be a PhD one had to be anti-gay, albeit as products of an extreme Left Wing educational system, most people gaining the doctorate degrees are extremely liberal and pro-gay.

Phipps Mike

“a Communist utopia is their ultimate goal.” I think I am MUCH more qualified than YOU to say what the Liberal goal is since I AM a liberal. Only a FEW believe in any type of Utopia and NONE want full Govt control of all of our businesses. You obviously live off stereotypes and Faux News,
Progressives are responsible for freed slaves and women’s suffrage, inventions such as the computer you type on, your apple devices…etc.. I can name hundreds of improvements to society that was brought about by the Liberal/progressive plan.
No change=stupid idiots trying the same thing over and over gain (insanity). Example? trickle down economics.
Jesus was TOO a socialist. His whole lifestyle was socialist, its HOW Christianity SPREAD.

Neiman

“Jesus was TOO a socialist. His whole lifestyle was socialist, its HOW Christianity SPREAD.” Prove it, don’t just say it.

It was mostly conservative minded Christians from Britain and America that risked and lost their lives freeing the slaves,

It is inevitable that for your socialism to succeed is that you must: (a) Destroy the Christian faith, just as all your Soviet minded brothers have done. Liberalism is anti-Christ as it hates religious freedom. (b) They must control every aspect of life, just as all your Soviet Minded brethren have done. (c) They cannot allow liberty to exist.

Phipps Mike

there are MANY liberal Christians. It does NOT hate religious freedom, it hates made up anti-gay bigotry. Don’t blame Gods word for this. Liberals seek to NOT control peoples lives hence the reason they are FOR marriage freedom….duh! Liberals want total freedom to do what they want without persecution, Conservatives are the ones who want control by trying to employ religion into law.
Liberty is about NOT being oppressed by the Bible or any other mans ideas that he should be able to dictate strangers lives. Lincoln was a progressive that was kicked out of the Whigs FOR wanting to free the slaves. The Whigs were Conservatives, stodgy ones at that. You have EVERYTHING backwards. Fighting the Kings men was a LIBERAL act. Liberal MEANS freedom (defined as).
You couldn’t BE any more wrong than what you are with this last reply. “protestant” means to protest. To protest is LIBERALLLLL. Kiss the liberals for fighting to found this country or you are a TRAITOR.

Neiman

The Founding Fathers were not Liberals and it was they that not only gave us the First Amendment and protections therein of religious liberty, they were mostly people of the Christian faith and they gave us that liberty.

From the American Revolution up to Afghanistan, almost every male and many female members of my family, on both sides, fought for this country, including my Vietnam Era service, so I would not throw around that traitor label if I were you.

If a liberal supports abortion, special homosexual rights, gay marriage and kicking God out of the Public Square with the lie of Separation and State, vote for those that support such evil, are at best carnal Christians and almost wholly practical atheists. Calling oneself a Christian while opposing His Word is an oxymoron.

It was people like Wilberforce in Britain, a host of Christian leaders and laity in the United States, a Republican President and Congress that opposed and died to end slavery, people of a decidely conservative mindset and none of your historical revisionism will change that fact.

franklinb23

“It was people like Wilberforce in Britain, a host of Christian leaders … that opposed and died to end slavery,”

True, but it was also Christians that led the fight FOR slavery, most notably the founders of the Southern Baptist Convention.

It just goes to show you that the Bible can be read to mean anything you want it to mean. It’s like the Magic Eight Ball of holy books.

Bayne MacGregor

Well the founding fathers were often Deists but not Theists, an important distinction different to most modern Christianity. And they didn’t come up with the idea of Rights, that they got from mainly Scottish philosophers who were debating the notions of an English philosopher.

Hobbes Leviathan gave an argument for the existence of a state versus the ‘state of nature’. Hume Locke and others then, building largely on the Reciprocal Ethics of Christ, of Confucius and of Exodus, as well as classical pagan philosophies of Greece and Rome argued that Hobbes was partly correct and partly incorrect putting forward arguments that refined the Social Contract which gives us the state while also Rights which limit the power of the state over individuals and in the case of a democratic state over minorities.

As for your ‘carnal christians’ i suggest you actually read what Christ taught.

He said not to pass judgement over others in Romans 14

Besides Mathew 7:12 is enough. He who lives by that rule lives as a liberal. Would you like Gays to ban your own Heterosexual marriage? Then you should not attempt to ban their marriage. It really is that simple.

This appeal to Reciprocal Ethics was made many times in the Old Testament and was a key teaching of Jesus. It applied to people radically different as was clear when in Exodus the Egyptians (who had gods who engaged in homosexuality!) were referenced. Exodus 22:21 Thou shalt neither vex a stranger nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt.

It might be time you took another look at what Jesus had to say.

Neiman

First, about judging:

This is an issue that has confused many people. On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil. How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of
judgment about them?

Christians are often accused of “judging” whenever they speak out against a sinful activity. However, that is not the meaning of the Scripture verses that statement, “Do not judge.” There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise—with careful discernment (John 7:24).

To judge an individual in a condemning way, as with the woman caught in adultery, when we are all guilty of sins worthy of death, is not approved by God. To judge certain acts, lifestyles and attitudes as being sin is mandatory that we might make sin to be known as sin and by the conviction of the Holy Spirit, lead others to Salvation and to cause us to repent of our own sins. So, pardon me but you do seriously err.

As to our Founding Father’s, yours is historical revisionism, as a host of direct quotes from them demonstrate that most of them had a belief in God and in His Christ. But, I will not get drawn into this long and useless debate with a liberal. Let it suffice to say that the actions of the Founding Father’s in defense of God and in their support of the Christian faith in their appointing Christian and only Christian Chaplains to call upon God from the Constitutional Convention and in ever session of Congress, on virtually every building and monument and their even buying bible for public schools to teach morals and good government are without dispute.

No one is banning gays from being married, they can marry anyone of the opposite gender they desire; they just cannot marry their own gender which is sexual perversion and contrary to the very definition of marriage.

As to Exodus, surely you are not suggesting that God was advising Israel to tolerate their idolatry, are you? Surely you are not saying that God, Whom expresses His hatred of sin and certain category of sinners, was advising Israel to tolerate homosexuality, wherein elsewhere He says homosexuals should be stoned and wherein His destroyed two cities because of their homosexual perversions, are you? Hospitality assume the guest will not commits sins against their hosts.

Bayne MacGregor

Yes judging is made clear, we are not to impose over others, that is up to God to do.

As for the founding fathers, it’s Deism not Theism, Deism still includes a creator God, if you don’t understand the term it’s worth looking up the difference especially compared to current Theistic Christianity. And who said i was a Liberal?

Gay Marriage existed before the birth of Christ. It was redefined when early Christians took up Roman traditions and mingled them with their own.

And yes, God said very clearly that the Jews must treat the Egyptians and all others different to them better than the Egyptians treated the Jews, that they should remember what it was like and not do so to others.

Are you suggesting that the Jews should have sacrificed to the Egyptian Gods instead and lived as Egyptians so as not to sin against their hosts? We are discussing one of several scriptures that call to treating others with fairness, equality, reciprocity, assuming there has to be a double-standard rather goes against the entire message of those scriptures.

Dealing with contradictions in the Bible can be difficult, such as it’s messages about slavery and rape, but Jesus made clear that Reciprocal Ethics, treating others as you would have them treat you, was the most important teaching of the prophets that Christians must learn.

Would you like it if you were forced to live as a Pagan Egyptian? Would you like only Pagan Egyptian relationship rules be applied legally to you? Pagan Egypt with it’s homosexual activity between Gods and it’s God-Kings with many wives…. of course you wouldn’t.

And by not imposing Christianity on them, and them not imposing their polytheistic paganism on you you could live side by side as amicable neighbours even if they went to hell at the end… and they may be more likely to listen to you about Jesus if you were a friendly respectful neighbour than if you tried to force Christian laws over them and so you’d be more likely to save their soul.

And that is how following Christ leads people to pluralism, and how pluralism leads people to Christ.

Robby Clewley

You are sick . You are against human rights . you are anti women and anti gay . GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY

Neiman

Every generation of my family, on both sides, from the American Revolution have defended this country in the United States military and you say it is not our country?

Gays have full human rights, they just should not have the special rights you demand.

Robby Clewley

being able to marry who you love isnt special rights

Angel Jabbins

Then I will marry my dog….my brother….two women and a man….after all….marriage is only about ‘who you love’. Nothing special about it at all. In fact …let’s just get rid of the institution of marriage all together..since it has now become completely meaningless.

Robby Clewley

oh you are pro military ? figures

Phipps Mike

actually its the Native Americans country and we stole it from them. Imperialism is something the US has done a lot of.

Neiman

So not only are you anti-Christ, but anti-American and anti-military as well, right comrade?

Phipps Mike

no, no and no. I am a Christian, ex-military and not necessarily PRO-american but I am 1000% against greedy capitalism. You claim to be so devout yet you defend greed, selfishness and STEALING (imperialism) Might is NOT right. It is THIEVERY and the meek shall inherit the earth.

Neiman

I hate it when you or anyone claims I have said or believe something I have NOT said. I am against greed, avarice, love of Mammon, but that is NOT what capitalism is all about, albeit sure some, too many, may have greed in their hearts; But, capitalism is about not just earning a living and having material blessings, but by doing so well, to employ and benefit others helping them to share in the benefits of capitalism. I have never supported stealing, it is only your false, Left Wing interpretation of things that claim America stole anything.

You can call yourself anything you want, but your words betray a person that hates our military, our country and in every way possible is opposed to Christ. I stand by what I said.

Phipps Mike

Imperialism IS greed. That is the might is right slogan in its physical form. I am my sons home teacher and we just went through Imperialism that the US employed against several countries. The Philippines, China, Cuba, Puerto Rico, The Panama Canal and others. These are FACTS, not opinions or views. The Spanish were slaughtering the Filipinos, we went there and defeated the Spanish. The filipinos thought we did that to HELP them…guess what? we started a war with THEM and killed several thousand Filipinos to take over their land claiming that they were not “organized enough” to be their own leaders. Dont try and hide and sweep under the rug the horrendous injustices we did to take land, We took 1/8th of China because “Russia and other countries already have portions of it, “we must take a part too so we wont be kept out of world trade!”
Now your accusation that I am in every way possible opposed to Christ would get you knocked out if you said it to my face. Especially when it is YOU that support Imperialism, That is SO ungodlike, its pathetic. Stop projecting.

Bayne MacGregor

Correction: Liberalism is pro-pluralist and pro-secular which are requirements for religious liberty.

You cannot have religious freedom if the government takes sides between faiths, so government MUST be secular for religion to be free.

Yes there can be anti-thiest secularism but that doesn’t make all secualrism so any more than the existence of racist theology makes all religion racist. And yes some liberals don’t understand the pluralist nature of Liberalism just as many Christians forget Mathew 7:12 or Exodus 22:21

Where one religion gets special treatment, is supported more than others by government, that’s not religious liberty it’s religious tyranny where one religion or group trample the religious liberty of the rest.

Do recall that Liberalism is the ism of Liberty.

Phipps Mike

“Where one religion gets special treatment, is supported more than others by government, that’s not religious liberty it’s religious tyranny where one religion or group trample the religious liberty of the rest.”

dont tell him that! he will have to admit he lost this debate in a bad way!

There is not a single word therein that indicates Jesus is or was ever a Socialist. All giving was voluntary, individual and NEVER a matter of government. Jesus condemned this world system, all of it and His government is ruled by God alone.

Phipps Mike

Once again, he DID socialist things> Giving to your fellow man IS socialism. You are in GRAVE error in suggesting that FORCE is a prerequisite of socialism. Anyway, Jubilee was FORCED and it was Gods commandment to do that. Insurance is socialism. Taxes to improve our infrastructure and to pay public employees such as cops, firemen, teachers etc…are ALL socialism. Carpooling and chipping in together to eat at a better restaurant is socialism. Socialism=Good, Greedy Capitalism (as long as I have MINE) is BAD. You are to put NO personal love into “worldly possessions” as according to God. you cant take it with you. You will be worshipping GOD in the afterlife. NOT money or possessions. I think YOU should be forced to give your house away to give you a lesson in humility.

Neiman

You know nothing about God at all. He was not about the governments of this world, He said give to Caesar (State) what belongs to Caesar, but to God the things that are God’s. He never endorsed government forced charity or socialism or capitalism, He condemned this world system and will destroy it all and His government, Divine Government will be without end.

You do not know anything about socialism or capitalism.It is those greedy capitalists that earn the money and pay 90% of all taxes. It is those greedy capitalists and conservatives that personally, outside government, are the most generous in charitable giving many time greater than liberal/socialists. It is the Church that leads in personal, charitable giving. Charity/Mercy have NOTHING in common with socialism which only makes everyone poor and miserable and takes away their freedom.

Phipps Mike

Whatever the precise reasons for the institution of the jubilee year, we should be mindful of the primary concept on which it is based: the land is not our own; rather, the land belongs to God, who, in his goodness, allows us to use it. Thus we should cherish and preserve it.

You really are a hypocrite. First you say force should not be used in the US to redistribute wealth but yet in the SAME thread say it is ok for us to STEAL entire countrys through the use of Military (killing people) so you think its ok if you murder and steal but not have the Govt here re=distribute to the poor,

You are also so wrong about Corp taxes. MOST Corps dont even PAY taxes. That’s why there is such an uproar right now.

Corporate lobbyists incessantly claim that our corporate tax rate is too high, and that it’s not ‘competitive’ with the rest of the world,” said Robert McIntyre, director of Citizens for Tax Justice and the study’s lead author.

“Our new report shows that both of these claims are false,” he said, contending that most large corporations pay nowhere near the statutory 35-percent U.S. corporate income tax rate due to tax breaks that lower their effective tax rates.”

“The group also said that 111 of the 288 companies paid no federal income tax in at least one of the five years measured.”

“We found that while both Republicans and Democrats tend to equally value justice and caring for the vulnerable, Republicans place a much higher value on issues of purity and respect for authority,” said Karen Page Winterich, study co-author and assistant professor of marketing at Pennsylvania State University. “Given these differences, Republicans are more inclined to donate to a charity when these values of purity and respect are met, whereas Democrats are more inclined to donate when the emphasis is purely on equality or protection rather than respect or purity.”

now if you have a problem with the system being owned by citizens as a collective, then not only are you greedy (want to make as much as you can), but you also fail to see that shares of stock in a company is a socialistic system.

Juni

Jesus was a socialist are you nuts, not Jesus was Jesus is and he was never political, he is King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He came to this world to redeem it, God so loved the world that he gave his only son so that all who believe in him would have eternal life. John 3:16. Thats a very good deal and nothing to do with socialism or any political party. Your thinking is a bit muddled. God and read the Bible and get educated.

Phipps Mike

he wasn’t CLASSIFIED a “socialist” because the term didnt EXIST back then. The things he DID would make him a socialist if he were here among us today:

“You and your fellow travelers have eviscerated the First Amendment protections of religious liberty”

What are you yammering about? Christians can say just about whatever they want in their churches, on the radios and on television … and they do. The Supreme Court even recently sided with Westboro Baptist (and they shout their anti-gay drivel at funerals).

A North Carolina pastor said gays should be executed. No one arrested him.

You, sir, are either a liar, or you’re grossly misinformed.

Neiman

As you choose to engage in personal invectives and ad hominems, I will not waste my time with you.

When people of faith in business are “forced” by the State to engage in business with people that by their lifestyle choices oppose their faith, it is a loss of religious liberty. I could go on with many examples but you have a closed mind,

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;. . .”

Bayne MacGregor

Do you then campaign just as much against the protection Christians get from being just so turned away by businesses?

Do Gay businesses have the right to turn away Christians? Do Jews have that right? Can Muslim businesses turn away Christians? Can Catholics turn away Protestants and vice versa?

This is important not just on matters of general Hypocrisy and the Religious Rights of others, but Matthew 7:12 is one of the most important tenets of Christianity and trying to claim that there is a religious basis to turn away Gays means you would have them able to turn you away.. and if you keep a protection for yourself and deny that to another you are going against the teachings of Jesus as well as going against the right of others to excercise their own religious beliefs.

Neiman

Yes businesses have a right to not do business with people based on their Christian faith. They will do so and with increasing venom in the years ahead. If doing business with anyone causes someone to compromise their faith by seemingly condoning that faith/belief, under the Constitution they cannot be forced to do business with them.

I have given you clear scripture that says your interpretation of Matthew 7:12 is false, it is based on ignorance of the Bible. I have argued why this is so and you have chosen to ignore, as is your want, God’s Word.

Bayne MacGregor

So a Gay Pagan shop-owner can legally turn away Christians

because they are Christians? Sure that’s the law right now?

As for the other scripture stuff, keep it to the other thread so we don’t derail this one. By all means i’ll respond to you there in the discussion chain 🙂

Neiman

The Bill of Rights tells us that people of faith are protected in their free exercise of their religion and that Congress may pass no law that in any shape, manner or form forces them to compromise their religious beliefs.

I will not submit to you and I will quote God’s whenever I choose, even though your side, the enemies of God, would love to deny me my free speech and freedom of religion rights and even imprison and execiute any Christian that opposes your religion of secular humanism.

Bayne MacGregor

Freedom of Religion means freedom for all Religions without favour for any.
The enlightenment philosophers who came up with the conclusion of Rights were inspired by Jesus’s teachings.

Jesus didn’t say Do unto others as you would have them do unto you only so long as they are Christians!

Pagans, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Sikhs, Jains, Farsee… all have the same rights.

And again you show yourself to be a false follower of Jesus, a follower in name only but not in deed. For if you incorrectly think me wicked nevertheless you do not act towards me as Jesus told you to act toward evil people.

He said, again in Matthew, in 5:39 “But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”

Now i do not deny you a single of your rights, unless you grant those rights equally to all others that is your wrong but it is not mine.

Neiman

Sadly, you only want to argue for your secular reasoning and to oppose God in every way you can and it has become a vain disputation with you, a casting of pearls of Divine Wisdom before swine and not profitable for anyone. You oppose God’s Word in favor of your false historical references and even worse scientific heresies.

I will not waste my time as one cannot reason with you, you fail to prove anything I say from God’s Word to be in error and just keep changing the subject, hoping in vain to win some silly contest. I close with a reproof of your false understanding of Matthew 5:39:

“But I say unto you, that ye resist not evil This
is not to be understood of any sort of evil, not of the evil of sin, of bad actions, and false doctrines, which are to be opposed; nor of the evil one, Satan, who is to be resisted; but of an evil man, an injurious one, who has done us an injury. We must not render evil for evil, or repay him in the same way; see ( James 5:6) . Not but that a man may lawfully defend himself, and endeavour to secure himself from injuries; and may appear to the civil magistrate for redress of grievances; but he is not to make use of private revenge. As
if a man should pluck out one of his eyes, he must not in revenge pluck out one of his; or should he strike out one of his teeth, he must not use him in the same manner; but patiently bear the affront, or seek for satisfaction in another way.

But whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also:
which is to be understood comparatively, rather than seek revenge, and is directly contrary to the Jewish canons, which require, in such a case, a pecuniary fine.

“I perceive that thou up braidest us with poverty and want; but in them the great men of other nations glory: for they do not glory but in him, who said, “Whosoever smiteth thee thy right cheek, turn to himthe left; and whosoever taketh away thy coat, give him thy cloak”.”

You call me a heretic but you are a heretic for the Earth still revolves around the sun. Interpretation of Scripture had to change when this was discovered. You are a bearer of falsehoods if you say otherwise and when anyone looks and sees that it is false they may well abandon the whole of scripture. Brittle lies shatter easily and you are holding onto a very brittle lie indeed. For four hundred years it is known that the Earth revolves around the Sun and that interpretation of scripture of that time needed to be reinterpreted because of this fact of Gods Own Creation.

That you follow with some twisting of turn the other cheek as just meaning don’t take private revenge is a joke, that’s the kind of hypocrisy that Jesus railed against amongst the Pharisees. Jesus said to OFFER the cheek unstruck so that they might strike it also, not ‘stay your hand then go to court.’. Jesus did not say “‘he who taketh thy coat, make them pay a pecuniary fine'” the very line is right there after that twisted false nonsense you quoted that he said “he who taketh thy coat give him thy cloak!”

That’s not ‘have him fined by the court’, it’s ‘Give the thief even more than he asked for’!

Jesus said to be kind to the cruel, but you don’t understand that because even the most basic of his ideas is alien to you. It was to the people he came to preach to, Jesus bade them change their ways radically which is why many opposed what he taught. He didn’t arrive with an army but on a donkey, he didn’t arrive as a bloodstained conqueror but a teacher, he didn’t eat meals with the wealthy and popular but with the poor, the despised and the hated.

You have a false understanding of Jesus.
You have a false understanding of truth.
Every time you say that discoveries of Gods Own Creation is in error if it does not match the current Human understanding of Human translations of Human writing down their Human recollection of the words of God you put not just one man above God but a long chain of them!

The Earth revolves around the Sun. Every sunrise says your heresy is false. Every sunset says your heresy is false. Where creation, God’s direct untranslated handiwork, is in conflict with Human understanding of Human translation of Human transcription of God’s Word then it is everything Human that needs to change to match God’s Actual Creation.

Clearly you have read the lies of those who found Jesus’s teachings fearfully radical and confronting, who sought to find ways to blunt them and make them banal and pointless and without challenge, and who twisted themselves into knots in order to spin the teachings of Jesus into manageable things that require nothing of them.

People who want you to skip over Jesus saying people should give away their wealth, that want to ignore Jesus saying not to use the courts to impose on one another, to ignore Jesus instructing to judge not, to ignore Jesus saying to render unto ceaser what is ceasers, or his ministrations to the sick

And as that falsehood is comforting you prefer the comfortable lie to the uncomfortable truth.

No you do not understand Jesus, nor truth.

Neiman

These vain disputations do not profit anyone. You would do best to seek Jesus and His Spirit, to give up your idols, be converted, be born again of His Spirit and find new life in Christ Jesus.

I give you exhaustive answers from Scripture with careful, clear explanations to try and help you escape your secular humanist approach to Scripture and your false interpretations thereof, but you are not sensitive to the Holy Spirit, you are unteachable.

I will pray for your salvation and your turning to God as your all-in-all.

Bayne MacGregor

Neiman there’s nothing vain in showing that you are making an argument that would, if true, have destroyed all of Christendom 400 years ago and ended the entire Christian faith because, let us both acknowledge this fact, the Sun does not revolve about the Earth instead the Earth orbits the Sun. Instead it is compassion trying to lead you away from heresy to truth.

If you are holding to classical human understanding of Scripture then you have a problem, because classical human understanding of scripture from Genesis had it that the Earth was at the centre of the universe and the sun went around the Earth. But this was not true!

Therefore that way of viewing scripture is untrue. We cannot return to it and be truthful, we cannot hold our past flawed ignorant human understanding of scripture above the work crafted by Gods own hand.

But we do not need to abandon the Bible and Christ because some people in the past did not understand the actual meaning of some part of scripture, that with new knowledge about Gods Creation the understanding of the meaning of the Scripture could and did change. That is how Christianity survived Copernicus and Galileo and countless other challenges to out flawed rigid narrow past human attempts to understand scripture.

You cannot deny the Orrery and return to concentric spheres, you cannot deny the maths of Newton, you cannot make that which is untrue be true. Where God’s Creation and the understanding of men, of words translated by men, transcribed by men, words of prophets and of God filtered through the minds of a chain of men are in conflict that the raw unaltered word of God is in his Creation and the altered words of God in scripture must be re-interpreted till they match with the Direct Work of God in Creation.

You deny God in your very attempt to be faithful to Him.

Neiman

I have nothing to discuss with you, I will only correct another error on your part – a vain disputation in the Bible is one that will serve no purpose but to further the goals of the enemy of our souls in creating strife and never harmony.

Bayne MacGregor

No you have not the courage or honesty to face that i have already shown your position on Human Interpretation of Scripture vs Gods Own Creation false.

Does the Earth revolve around the Sun? Can you admit to that?

Neiman

You are wanting to engage in vain disputations so you can feel satisfied in opposing God’s Word and standing with secular, atheist science, with liberal historical revisionism and against Him. I refuse, let God be true and every man a liar. You will stand before Him and answer for your every word and thought.

I do not stand on human interpretation – that is typical of you Christ hating liberals, you stand with secular humanism and against God and accuse me of doing so. The Bible tells us that Scripture is not subject to individual human interpretation, but every word can be established by at least 2-3 witnesses within God’s Word. You choose select scriptures that support your false theology and refuse to look at every passage on the subject and bring them into harmony that you might find the Truth, which Truth is the last thing you ever want.

Bayne MacGregor

Does the Earth orbit the Sun or the Sun orbit the Earth?

If the Earth Orbits the Sun then you must acknowledge that Man’s past understanding of Scripture MUST periodically be reinterpreted when we learn more about God’s Own Creation.

No vanity, no historical revision, no liberalism, just a plain simple truth. Now does the Earth orbit the Sun?

Once you let go of the Heresy that words said aloud in Aramaic and Hebrew transcribed by multi-lingual men into Greek then through several other languages all by fallible men of a text of which there is no definitive copy (even the 4 canon Gospels disagree on the order of some events because they remain the recollections of men even if they were the direct disciples of God!) and searched for meaning and interpreted by fallible men somehow is greater than the direct word of God visible in the observation and discovery of His Own Creation then we can return to discuss the particulars of understanding of the scriptures. But so long as you claim that current interpretation is more true than Gods Own Direct Handiwork you will remain the same kind of Heretic as those who refused to face the reality of Heliocentrism brought before their eyes by Galileo’s Telescope, you will be as far away from God as the Pharisees who Jesus frequently criticised.

Face your faithless Heresy that puts faith in Men’s ideas of God over God’s Own Creation. Answer Does The Earth Orbit The Sun?

Laurie WackoBird Ballard

Fascinating how “God’s Own Creation” makes 100% plain His intended functionality of the sexual union; and today’s “‘Human Understanding’ of His Word” viscerally opposes His intent and His will (Again: Plainly Expressed in His Own Creation and in Scripture (o.t. and n.t.))

Bayne MacGregor

The sexual union has precisely nothing to do with Transgender unless you are an Evolutionist in which case look up Kin Selection and the study of the Fa’Afa’Fine of Samoa just for starters. Otherwise the Transgender gene discoveries means he made them that way.

The Lone Ranger

Evangelical Christianity’s anti-gay stance. If (Oboma ) Balak would give me his( White) house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the Lord, to do either good or bad of mine own mind; but what the Lord saith, that will I speak?… Numbers 24:13 .
…I’ll humbly ask that you spare me any scripture since our laws are totally secular and Jesus Christ has no say over citizen’s rights, God will not look over your ignorance sir if you choose to remain the same your , Dr. , PhD will not help you when you get to eternity I warn you!….I’ll leave you with a paraphrase of something Robert Ingersoll once wrote: I’ll leave you with a proverb king Solomon once wrote: He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. Good day sir. The Ranger

APRODEFA

Since you do not seem to care about what you refer to as antiquated Christian views here are 17 or so pages of secular arguments outlining the harms of so called “homosexual marriage” and homosexual adoption/child trafficking:http://fielesalaverdad.org/documents/adoption.pdf

One who promotes “lifestyle choices” which
damage health and reduce lifespan does not love his neighbor.

Chrissy Vee

I care about Neiman’s “antiquated views” AKA the TRUTH. And if you are going to quote Robert Ingersoll… Incase you haven’t noticed, Christians’ rights are being trampled under the feet of people like them and you so, I will leave you with this… you’re saying that you believe that you are inferior to Christians. (according to this quote) Nice. Christians don’t even believe that. Sigh…

Jack Rohde

You are the stupid one, you are brainwashed by the satanic Illuminati media, to think the way you do, you have went to the schools that said your smart, and read the books they told you to read, watched the films and presentations they told you to watch, took the tests written by them and now years later you are nothing but a programed robot recording, designed buy the Illuminati to regurgetate crap thy programed you to say to further their satanic agenda, good job robot.

Robby Clewley

Neiman is one of these anti gay closet cases . ignore him . He talks anti gay stuff then sneaks away to the bath house

wandakate

KRAUSSE ALLIE: Yes, the world is more corrupt, and yes Satan is the god of this world (for now), but he and “ALL” of his followers including you will lose in the end. The first will be last and the last will be first. Satan just has a short time left so he’s busy. GOD knows all of this and that is why he created HELL…You may be happy now but you won’t be in due time. You could repent but of course that is your choice. He forces no one to come unto Him and have eternal life. You will reap what you sow.

Phipps Mike

“Seattle, the home base of Starbucks is one of the most Soviet minded cities in America.”

politics 101- liberalism/socialism is NOT Communism. Communism is 100% Govt owned. Socialism…is NOT. You still have free enterprise with socialism. And don’t get started with the “gateway” theory. Its mere tripe.

if you want to talk politics, it doesn’t apply here in this subject.

Neiman

A. Who are you to decide whether or not politics apply to this subject?
B. I have defined a “Soviet Mindset” twice and now for the last time, “I refer to the Soviet Mindset among most liberals today, which is
passionately atheist, anti-Christ and wherein they demand submission to
the Liberal Agenda or else; and, wherein everyone becomes a spy against
everyone else, trying to silence all opposition via cheap political,
criminal and civil thuggery.”
C. Socialism is the intermediate step between a free society and a Communist State, we are rapidly moving towards that atheist and Communist State.

Phipps Mike

“Socialism is the intermediate step between a free society and a Communist State”

wrong, you need to read again: “Communism is 100% Govt owned.”

Communism is 0% socialism and socialism is 0% communism. two DIFFERENT ideologies, totally.

Politics have NOTHING to do with the subject of Gays. Get over it., There are many CONSERVATIVE gays whether YOU like it or not. They are just more in the closet about it.

Neiman

There are surely economic and limited government gays; while the vast majority are Christ hating liberals.

You are not very well educated, are you? I said “intermediate,” which means from Capitalism, liberalism morphs into socialism and it will always end in full blown communism.

James Grimes

Neiman, I agree completely with all your points. You said it very well.

franklinb23

What’s evil here, exactly? Didn’t Milton Berle wear a dress on stage (as well as the Three Stooges in their short films)?

Tell me this: is wearing the clothing of the “opposite gender” evil? If so, keep in mind that the Founding Fathers all wore silk stockings and powdered wigs, and Sarah Palin wears pants.

Neiman

You are equating homosexuals with transvestites.

Yet, to answer your question from a Christian perspective:

For a man to despise his gender and identify as a woman, or for a woman to abandon her gender and present herself as a man, is wrong. It is a defiance of God’s design when He created male and female. Deuteronomy 22:5 says, “A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.” This command was not as much about clothing as it was about guarding the sanctity of what it means to be a man or a woman. Romans 1 shows that gender confusion is merely a symptom of a bigger problem. When people reject God’s authority and set themselves up as their own gods, chaos results. Verses 21 and 22 illustrate the problem: “For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.”

Thinking that we know better than God is the doorway to becoming a fool. When a man defies his masculinity or a woman rejects her femininity, it is a symptom of grosser sin: rejection of God’s ultimate authority. The closer we grow to God, the more we can embrace our gender identity. Both genders display certain aspects of God’s character in a unique way. When we pervert His choice for us, we limit the opportunities He gives us to demonstrate the glory of being created in His image (Genesis 1:27).

If one wants to get closer to God and gain Heaven, they should submit to God in all things. If they choose to reject His plan for our lives, they must pay the consequences.

franklinb23

You didn’t answer the question. You just tap danced around it.

A kilt looks an awful lot like a Catholic school girl’s skirt. What’s the difference? Is Jesus always irate at the Scottish?

What about pants? Can women wear pants or not? You know, pink used to be a color assigned to men, not women.

A robe can look like a muumuu … or even a dress.

These assignments are arbitrary … what’s masculine one year is feminine the next.

Neiman

I cannot help you, God tells us that spiritual things are only spiritually discerned, to understand God’s Word requires one be spiritually converted to a new life in Christ Jesus, having His Spirit within – otherwise, as Jesus so often said, the things of God are hidden from those that have not His Spirit.

I gave you the answer from Scripture – I can do no more. It is all a matter of the heart, of submitting to God’s plan and order and when we, by our outward appearances and actions, deny His perfect plan for our lives as regards our gender, we cannot have peace with God nor true happiness in life. To argue over the silly matters you presented is a waste of my time.

What is in the heart of those wearing clothes or by their general appearance that seem to deny God’s plan for their lives? That is what is important, submitting to God’s Word, even without understanding and when we do, understanding will come to us.

Bayne MacGregor

Except that in Biblical times transvestites and transsexuals were called Eunuchs. Amongst the Scythians, Babylonians, Assyrians and the Cybelline faith found from one end of the Roman Empire to the other there were Religious sex-change practices. All around Israel they existed. And we KNOW God makes some people these Eunuchs because Jesus himself told us so!

Mathew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, who were so born from their mother’s womb:
and there are some eunuchs, who were made eunuchs of men: and there are
eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s
sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Now the passages seen to condemn this have arguments over translation from the Greek, the line in romans uses a word that can mean two things, effiminacy or lack of conviction and willingness to stand up for ones self. The other passage is from the OT and so not covered by the new covenant anyway (and if you eat bacon and prawns or wear cotton-wool blend socks your in just as much trouble!). But this here in Mathew 19:12 tells us these people are born that way, something science has only been proving in the last 30 years. And science has shown it’s genetic, epigenetic and neurological.. science has shown they are indeed born that way.

Science and Jesus agreeing? Usually a positive thing… except when it means that centuries of mistranslation needs to be fixed and centuries of persecution was going against the teachings of Jesus.. well actually all persecution was anyway which really makes things hard for those who want to pretend to be Christian and keep persecuting. But when people can point directly to what Jesus said it just makes it even harder to be a fake-Christian!

Reason2012

Eunuchs are men born with a birth defect for their genetalia or men who castrated themselves. They are not men who felt like they wanted to wear women’s clothes.

To claim the OT condones men wearing women’s clothes or vice versa is flat out wrong.

Deuteronomy 22:5 “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.”

Bayne MacGregor

No, lets start with Gods observable creation.
Firstly Intersex exists, there are people of mixed biological and genetic anatomy like XXY chromasomes or androgen insensitivity, that’s MUCH more than just some genital deformation some people are even chimera, a male twin and a female twin fused just after conception building the one body, but it does not end there. The cross-sex neuroanatomy of transgender people has been known for decades now from autopsies in the 90s and now can be seen in living brains with FMRI scanners. They literally have transgender brains. That genetics is involved was known since 2008 (they haven’t found a ‘gay gene’ yet but they have found Transgender ones!)

Now you can read that only one of two ways. Either Jesus spoke of that in Mathew 19:12 which proves Jesus right OR Jesus and Isaiah didn’t know about that which makes the Bible a pack of lies.

It’s the same problem that came up with Galileo, reinterpret human-translated and transcribed scripture so it matches what we can see of Gods actual creation with science or lose the entire thing.

Now as for Deuteronomy i SAID there were translation problems, that passage in the Torah is about dressing up like a soldier when you aren’t a soldier or a soldier dressing in a civilians disguise AND as part of the old covenant it wouldn’t be binding on Christians any more than Leviticus’s ban on Bacon. Tell me, did you EVER eat Bacon, Pork, Oysters, Prawns do you have a tattoo or have you EVER worn cotton/wool blend? Cause even if we ignore the translation problem if you ever ate Pork you’ll be insisting on the New Covenant replacing the old one.

Now you have a simple choice to deal with, you have to decide was Jesus really the son of God in which case God created Transgender people born that way as science has shown is true and it means Jesus included them along with Intersex people in Mathew 19:12 or was the whole thing a pack of made-up stories in which case there’s no point to objecting anyway.

Work your conscience out, determine if the bible is true but needs re-understanding or was lies the whole time. Either way you cannot undo the discoveries i have told you of.

Neiman

There is absolutely no proof of any gay gene nor any transgender gene, but even if it could be established to exist, is it cause or effect? Is it normal or a mutation caused by sin? Even if such genes could be found, as your Christ hating scientists have said an alcoholic gene or perhaps even a pedophilia gene exists, doesn’t society tell us that such abnormal desires must be rejected and not acted upon, for the good of all?

Reason 2012 does not say we should get back under the OT, but that God has definitely spoken against such things and has even condemned such desires in the New Testament. Saved by Grace does not mean we throw out every word of God in the OT, God changes not, being saved one would turn from these things for the love of God, not as a matter of law and if they do not turn from them, it is evidence they have not been converted at all.

But, without His Spirit, you cannot hope to understand spiritual things, as they are only spiritually discerned. You assert things which are not objectively established and yet, even if they were, they do not excuse sin and that is the point.

Reason2012

Hello. We’re not talking about animals, we’re talking about human beings – so referencing what animals do to in any way infer what humans should do is a flawed argument.

The topic is what is meant by Eunuchs – not opinions about transgenders being people who were supposedly born in the wrong body type, as if their feelings are genetic but their genetalia are not.

You left out a third way: unsaved man is the one that has it wrong, as it’s only their opinion that your feelings are genetic but your genetalia are not.

No, that passage says nothing about soldiers – it’s flat out talking about men who try to dress in women’s clothes or vice versa. Please support your claim that it’s talking about soldiers. Quote the verse and prove it.

We all have a simple choice: we can either turn to Christ realizing without His righteousness we remain guilty of breaking God’s laws countless times daily, or we can make up whatever stories we wish to justify some sins kidding ourselves that God will be swayed.

Making up beliefs that cannot be proven is not a discovery, it’s storytelling.

Neiman

I think you replied to the wrong person?

Bayne MacGregor

Referencing that some scientists found the mechanism God put in place that creates Transgender in mice is relevant though. God put the mechanism there in many kinds of animla life and in humans. Whether you like it or not.

Eunuch in biblical times covered more than just Castrati. But as to your lack of understanding on genetics, all people start out female and then based on key genes and Epigenetic Switches become either more female or are transformed into male in several stages or end up in between during Hormone Washes in the womb. The brain and nerves are gendered in one stage, the outer body in another.

Regardless Transgender people have key brain structure differences, their brains are literally more like those of who they say they are than otherwise. God and God alone can be responsible for that because he is the sole one in charge of creation.

Reason2012

Hello. No, there’s no such thing as a gene that makes someone transgender. There are genes that give people genetalia along with the rest of their gender. There is no gene that makes someone “feel” like their genetics are wrong.

No, eunuchs in the Bible covers men with birth defects in their genetalia, or choosing to castrate themselves to commit themselves further for the Kingdom of God. It has absolutely nothing to do with a man “feeling” like he should have been a woman, nor trying to even be one.

Indoctrination can do far more than merely convince someone their genetics was a lie and they instead should have been genetically born the opposite_sex.

No, man is “in charge” of the fact we insist on sinning countless times daily and hence are just as responsible for the fall. We prove we are just as responsible for the disease suffering and death that ensues. It’s nothing new that people want to pretend it’s God’s fault that we sin – just another attempt to elevate man and judge God. In the end it’s God we’ll have to convince it’s his fault. Please think again.

Bayne MacGregor

No such thing? The FIRST Transgender gene connection was the discovery of the long-variant Androgen Receptor Gene and it’s high occurrence in Transgender people http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7689007.stm That discovery was 2008, there’s been more discoveries building on that one since then.

“Indoctrination can do far more than merely convince someone their
genetics was a lie and they instead should have been genetically born
the opposite_sex.”

No that is false, they try that every year and it fails over and over again. Famously there was the John Money case where a severely botched circumcision had the doctor advise the family to raise the baby as a girl instead, but try as they might it would not work. The Gender Identity was already written deeply in the babies brain and the child struggled and rebelled against this attempt to turn them into a girl.

But that’s not the only case, there are hundreds (maybe thousands) of Intersex babies born every year who doctors surgically alter based on purely a guess as to whether it’s a boy or a girl or based on whats the easier surgery for them to do on a baby! Many people think they are Transgender till they go in for surgery and find out they were Intersex all along, this happened with the first ever case of such surgery in the modern world back in 1931 with Lilly Elbe! Many discover only under the surgeons knife that they are fixing another doctors mistake from their childhood, surgery done to them as babies they never knew about.

So no it’s not indoctrination, we have thousands of cases where it’s shown that people resist being pushed or tricked into the wrong gender. We know it’s wired in the brain.

Just like Galileo’s telescope proving the Earth went round the sun our limited human understanding of scripture needs to change.

We have looked through the telescope and seen Copernicus was right… those who believed only in a rigid interpretation of the bible saw where it said the opposite to the truth Galileo had shown and lost their faith, or lived in denial of the demonstrable truth of God’s own creation making them a laughingstock for centuries. The same is true right here.

In the biblical era many religions had a role for Transgender people, some would crossdress and perform religious duties such as in the temples of Babylon and Assyria, some would castrate themselves as found across the entire Roman empire with crude surgery to become womanlike and one of the tools of this pagan religious act was found in the river Thames, London England. Amongst the Scythian tribes they drank the urine of pregnant mares to get premarin, the same hormone used in birth control now and hormone replacement therapy to ease menopause in order to feminise their bodies.

Israel interacted with all of these cultures and religions, this was common practice and could not be unknown to Jesus, the disciples and those they took the word of God to even if they were all just men let alone Jesus being God made flesh. So when the word Eunuch was used in ancient times it wasn’t just harem guards of the Ethiopians that came to mind but also included these religious Eunuchs both self-castrated and uncastrated. That is part of the context of the words of Jesus.

And if Jesus didn’t know that God made Transgender people born that way then he wasn’t the son of God after all, are you really going to argue that Jesus was unaware of God’s creation?

No Jesus knew. Jesus, like Isiah before him, made clear in his words that there was meant to be a place for all these Eunuchs in the faith. It’s only Men ignoring the word of God and Prophets, who removed them. And now we add the facts of Gods direct Creation alongside the words of Jesus and Isiah to that which Men ignore in order to cast the innocent from the house of the Lord on Earth, though the Lord said there would be a place for them.

Bayne MacGregor

The first Transgender correlated gene discovery was 2008, 6 entire years ago. 2 more have been found since.

As for sin, sorry Mathew 19:12 says they are born that way, whether an illness created by the fall or part of Gods Plan is up to God, we still must live with the reality. And this is not Sin.

And do you eat Bacon? Simple question. Regardless the errors of men in translating the Bible has lead to a problem, but it still requires ignoring the parts of the Bible that require Reciprocal Ethics. Anyone living by Matthew 7:12 will be fine with Transgender people.

Neiman

Transgender gene?
Cause or effect? Is it 100%, meaning all having the gene are transgendered? Is it a mutation, a defect caused by sin or other external factors? Just your liberal minded, atheist scientists saying thus, does not make it so, they are proven wrong over and over again

Matthew 19:12
As is your pattern, your liberal twisting of Scripture is unfortunate for you and those whose lives you negatively impact with your flawed theology.

For there are some eunuchs
Our Lord here distinguishes the various sorts of persons, that can and do live in a single state with content: some by nature, and others by violence offered to them, are rendered incapable of entering into a marriage state; and others, through the gift of God, and under the influence of his grace, abstain from marriage cheerfully and contentedly, in order to
be more useful in the interest of religion; but the number of either of these is but few, in comparison of such who choose a conjugal state, and with whom it is right to enter into it, notwithstanding all the difficulties that may attend it. Some men are eunuchs, and of these there are different sorts; there are some,

which were so born from their mother’s womb;
Meaning, not such who, through a natural temper and inclination of mind, could easily abstain from marriage, and chose to live single; but such who had such defects in nature that they were impotent, unfit for, and unable to perform the duties of a marriage state; who, as some are
born without hands or feet, these were born without proper and perfect organs of generation; and such an one was, by the Jews, frequently called, (hmh oyro) , “an eunuch of the”: that is, as their doctors explain it, one that from his mother’s womb never saw the sun but as an eunuch; that is, one that is born so; and that such an one is here intended, ought not to be doubted. The signs of such an eunuch, are given by the writers, which may be consulted by those, that have ability and leisure. This sort is sometimes called (Mymv ydyb oyro)
“an eunuch by the hands of heaven”, or God, in distinction from those who are so by the hands, or means of men, and are next mentioned:”

In every case it is not speaking of transgender people, as they all have a God assigned gender, but people that for various reasons, even those coming from the womb who are biologically defective, who are unable to participate in the marriage bed, procreation and function as a normal mate. There is not a single word here that supports such defects as being normal or good, but only recognizes its existence. Further, being born that way, unable by physical defects to participate in marriage is explained by thew Holy Spirit through Paul that they should then stay eunuchs, that is, celibate and devoted to God rather than engage in sexual activity or to act other than their assigned gender, otherwise it is sin.

There is no such thing as your liberal construct of Reciprocal Ethics. It is surely a rule of Christian living to love and not hate our brothers or enter into judgment as pertaining to their fate after death, but despite my giving you Scripture which tells us we are to judge sin as being sin and not to associate with evil doers in a Christian sense of fellowship, you in a liberal mindset have twisted it all to say we are not to hate sin at all, we are not to oppose sin and speak out against sin at all, to you it is just live and let live. Where then comes the word of God to convict men of their sins that they might turn to God and be saved? Where then is our teaching our children and brothers/sisters in Christ about to everlasting punishing promised against all who sin and thereby leading them away from sin? No like most liberal minded folk, you would counsel Christians to shut up, stop preaching the Gospel of Salvation and thus do away with the idea of sin entirely, unless of course anyone is not politically correct, wherein any such failure to be thoroughly liberal would be a sin to you.

Bayne MacGregor

First all scientists aren’t atheists, many are Christian including most of the early scientists and many still today. Many are conservative not ‘liberal minded’ and facts are facts without political ideology. What science may find can only be Gods creation.

Secondly there’s 3 Genes found so far AND an epigenetic switch. Transgender people are also found in all peoples on earth whether the culture celebrated them like the Native Americans or oppressed them. If it was a Mutation it must have been early in Man’s ancestry to be found in all the peoples of the world unlike the milk-drinking mutations found only in some Europeans and some Africans (and different mutations in Africa to Europe!)

As for God assigned Gender you forgot the term Tumtum which according to Tractate Yevamot in the Babylonian Talmud (leaf 64a) included Abraham! Now the Mishnah (Zavim, 2, 1) says that of a Tumtum where the law is stricter towards men than women, they are treated as
men, but where the law is stricter towards women, they are treated as
women.

So even Abraham, the one who God made the first Covenant with and from whose willingness to sacrifice their child at God’s command lead to the existence of 3 religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, would be male in some places and female in others determined not by God at creation but based on man’s law in any place Abraham visited.

Also note that Sarah was said in the same Talmud to be Aylonit.. a woman without a womb. Which may mean she had Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome and so was chromasomally XY, genetically male but developed as a woman on the outside!

Eunuch in biblical times did not mean celibate. Otherwise how come there were many Eunuch prostitutes accross the ancient world? Heck Emperor Elagabalus was said by some historians at the time to have become one!

No you are playing “let’s pretend” if you try to claim that somehow the Apostles who came from many nations somehow did not know the word Eunuch was used for crossdressing and sometimes sex-changing people who were often priestesses or prostitutes or both. This was true in Greece and Rome were the Galli had spread from Phrygia across the biblical lands and up through the roman empire. Cybele, the Goddess of the Galli was made into one of the Roman State Gods in 204 B.C. centuries before Jesus was even born!

And those are just the Galli of Cybele, there was also the Gala/Kalu priestesses of the Babylonian/Akkadian/Sumerian Goddess Innana/Ishtar.. no there was no such ignorance in the Apostles nor the Jews especially as once Israel was ruled over by the Babylonian Empire till the Jews were restored to their lands with their treasures by Cyrus the Great of Persia.

The Greeks knew of this, the Romans knew of this, this was part of life in the biblical world. So the apostles who carried the word of Christ to Greece, to Rome, to Phrygia, to Egypt etc knew of this and they knew of it even if they had been just ordinary men, they knew the word Eunuch across those lands also included these people. And are you going to say the son of God did not know it? That when there were words for Abstinence he did not use them and instead used the word that included these Transgender people in some kind of error?

And as Science is finding Transgender people are born that way are you saying Jesus did not know that?

Neiman

While in history many scientists believed in God and not a few were Christian; nonetheless most then and all but a tiny minority now, are atheists and most of those claiming any Christian beliefs, by their false interpretations of the data, only prove that they are practical atheists. Science is now the battle ground of the Left wherein they are at war against God and that to their own destruction.

Most of the left wing historical revisionism and false science you regurgitated from the work of these anti-Christ scientists, is not worth commentary. I will leave that to others.

Science have NOT found any transgender gene, they only can say that some people are born with genital mutations. They have found NO gay gene. Jesus knows everything!

Transsexualism, also known as transgenderism, Gender Identity Disorder (GID), or gender dysphoria, is a desire to change one’s sex or to fulfill the role of the opposite gender. Transsexuals / transgenders usually describe themselves as
“trapped” in a body that does not match their gender. They will probably practice transvestism / transvestitism and may also seek hormone therapy and/or surgery to bring their bodies into conformity with their perceived gender.

The Bible has plenty to say about human sexuality. Most basic to our understanding of sex is that God created two (and only two) genders: “male and female He created them” (Genesis 1:27). All the modern-day speculation about numerous genders—or even a gender “continuum” with unlimited genders—is unbiblical.

In Psalm 139, we learn that God fashions each one of us. “For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb. I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made. . . . My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in the secret place. . . . your eyes saw my unformed
body” (verses 13-16). God’s creation of each individual must surely include His designation of gender/sex. His wonderful work leaves no room for mistakes; no one is born with the “wrong body.”

After the fall of man, it did not take long for gender issues to become confused. In Abraham’s day, homosexuality was widespread in some cities (Genesis 19:1-7; Jude 7). The Bible is unmistakably clear that homosexuality is a sinful perversion of God’s gift of sexuality (Romans 1:18-32; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Another possible reference to transsexualism is 1 Corinthians 6:9, where “male prostitutes” is listed as a separate category from “homosexual offenders.” The King James Version uses the word “effeminate” here; that is to say, the “male prostitutes” might be transsexual men who act as women.

No matter if the gender distortion has a genetic, hormonal,
physiological, or psychological cause, the Bible clearly and
consistently labels any sexual activity outside of marriage or not between a man and a woman as sin, rebellion against God’s plan. But following this realization is good news: sin can be forgiven and lives can be changed through faith in Christ. The Corinthian believers are an example of such a change: “And [homosexuals] is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name
of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (1 Corinthians 6:11). There is hope for any sinner, transsexuals, transgenders, and transvestites included, because of God’s forgiveness available in Jesus Christ.

Your many writings here prove beyond all shadow of a doubt that you are against God, against His Word and an enemy of Christ. So, pardon me if I dismiss your nonsense as being nonsense.

Bayne MacGregor

Where is this study that shows most Scientists are atheists? As many i know are Christians.

If you claim data has been misinterpreted then show where the methodology was flawed and win international acclaim like the student who found those (conservative!) Harvard Economists had failed even basic spreadsheet use. You can’t just state anything you don’t like must be misinterpreted, you must show how and why it was done so.

They called Galileo and Copernicus and everyone who supported Heliocentrism enemies of God too but that was not true, God put the Earth in orbit around the Sun. Satan didn’t move it. God created it that way. You don’t get to just claim anything that goes against a traditional understanding of scripture must be untrue, that notion was proven false centuries ago when the reality that the Earth went round the Sun was proven. You are 400 years wrong if you think otherwise, four hundred years!

Not only have i already pointed out the translation problems in the other passages you mention and i mentioned older copies of the old testament which clearly mention 2 key figures, one of whom being one of the most important people of the entire Old Testament was not clearly male but could be considered male or female in different places, you cannot just pretend those issues are not there.

But even were i wrong on every single detail despite all this evidence still, still Matthew 7:12 requires you to treat them as you would have them treat you.

Exodus 22:21 requires you to not vex them nor oppress them but to treat them as the Jews would have wished to be treated by the Egyptians.

So important it’s said again in Exodus 23:9

And again through the old Testament it is repeated, even in Deuteronomy where as i pointed out there is debate about the anti-crossdressing rule nevertheless it says in Dueteronomy 10:19 to show love to strangers for the Jews were strangers in Egypt.

No wonder that Jesus said this was the teaching from the old testament that Christians should carry.

That means you cannot impose your interpretation of scripture over others just as Jews would not have been ok with being forced into following the rules of Ra or Bastet. Jesus made that clear in Romans yet simply obeying Mathew 7:12 is enough.

You call me an enemy of God and yet it is you who argue against the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 7:12, the word of God in Exodus 22:21 and 23:9 and Deuteronomy 10:9

Unless you would have a Galli of Cybele force you to obey their pagan Transgender religious practices and rules then you may not impose your view of the conflicting translation of Deuteronomy on them.

You say i am the enemy of God yet you bore false witness when you claimed scientists had not found that Transgender gene link, i posted the BBC news article to it from 2008. You may not want it to be true but you don’t get to make up what is true in your imagination and call it so.

When you are lying in direct denial of the reality of God’s creation like those who lied about the Sun orbiting around the Earth when Copernicus and Galileo showed that was not true then it is you are the enemy of God. Because a narrow fragile scripture based on things people can show are not true turns people away from all of scripture and away from God when they learn that some things in it are not literally true in the limited understanding of the past.

Do you want to go back to when the common telescope found in millions of backyards, found in every toystore, would turn people from the bible because it showed the Earth went around the Sun and the old understanding of scripture said the Sun went round the Earth?

Is your faith so fragile it must be protected by lies? Do you think Jesus can only be followed by trampling on his teachings? By ignoring his instruction to turn the other cheek, to judge not, to not put obstacles in the paths of others, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you?

That’s not true faith. True faith would mean living by those teachings of Jesus.

Neiman

Many you know, if they do not submit their data to God’s Word, may call themselves Christian or Chrysler Cordoba’s or anything they choose, but their refusal to bring all their work into harmony with God’s Word makes them, at best, practical atheists.

If they were Christians, the interpretation of the data they discover, if it contradicted God’s Word, they would know it to be a false interpretation and turn to God to show them how it harmonizes with His Word and wait until He showed them how it confirms and does not deny His Word. If they reject His Word on any point, then they cannot truthfully says they believe in God, as they are making man’s interpretations above God’s Word and making Him into a Liar, a Deceiver.

All scientific data is the same data, they are just facts that have been uncovered, but the difference is the interpretation of that data and which life model they choose as the place where that data best fits. There are many Creation Scientists and Creation Science Research organizations which have refuted the false interpretations of secular science and who have demonstrated that the data best fits Divine Creation and cannot fit the evolutionary model at all. Of course, because liberal political correctness of our educational institutions will not publish that data and will punish any scientists that goes contrary to their godless interpretations of the data, they either submit or professionally die. You likewise refuse to go to those Creation Science publications and organizations, because you too are at best a practical atheist and oppose God’s Word.

You said: “You call me an enemy of God and yet it is you who argue against the
teaching of Jesus in Matthew 7:12, the word of God in Exodus 22:21 and
23:9 and Deuteronomy 10:9.”

That is a lie, I have shown you from God’s Word that your interpretations of those passages are false. In treating strangers with kindness and hospitality, could God Who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and raged against the idolatry and sexual immorality in Romans possibly mean quietly accepting their sexual perversions in their land? Would this God say welcome them and their idols into your homes, don’t speak against those sins against God? Just the most basic understanding of God’s Word and His hatred of sin would tell you He surely cannot mean welcoming their sinful lifestyles and pretend they are okay in God’s sight. Why else did God tell us in the New Testament, “come out from among these people and be separate from them?” Why else would He say do not be unequally yoked together with them because of their idolatries?

Like all unbelievers you look for passages that you can twist into excusing your sins and the sins of others, but you refuse to know the whole Word of God. You cannot know it, because Spiritual Truth is only Spiritually discerned and as you oppose God’s Word, you cannot have His Spirit.

Bayne MacGregor

That is false. That false Christianity was shown to be false centuries ago with Heliocentrism. You are 400 years wrong. And you toss truth into the fire.

YOU are the one making mans interpretations of God’s word higher than God’s actual creation! That makes you the deceiver! You would have people lie in order to protect past poor understandings of scripture? By your argument Copernicus and Galileo should have lied about discovering the Earth went round the Sun! But then if discovery of Gods creation HAS to match the CURRENT interpretation of Scripture and it did not 400 years ago and does not now then that would make scripture FALSE! Proven so by God’s own creation!

Your false theology would make Atheists of the world. Backyard telescopes bought from toystores prove your theology wrong because the Earth does go round the Sun and no amount of lies makes that not so.

Before all else you must acknowledge that the world goes around the Sun, that God made it so. That past interpretation of scripture had to be changed in order to come to terms with new learnings about God’s creation.

For if you cannot, if the only way scripture is true is if God’s Creation matches age-old interpretations of it then it was all proved false generations before either of us were born, before our great grandparents were born.

For Christianity to be true it must be true that interpretations of Scripture must bow to the higher evidence of God’s Own Creation! For if that is not so then it has all been lies, 400 years of falsehood.

So which is it? True but needing to be reinterpreted based on learning more about God’s Creation, or 4 centuries false.

Neiman

Further, in support of your reply, some are eunuchs, as was Paul, and John the Baptist in Spirit, by God’s calling they have no desire for marriage nor sexual relations, that they might devote themselves to God’s service wholly, as the Spirit tells us, that such people have concern only for the things of God and not being responsible for family affairs.

While it is better to be wholly devoted to God, most men and women cannot accept this, they have a desire for marriage, sexual relations and family commitments, wherein the Spirit through Paul told them they should marry that they not sin by engaging in sexual relations outside the marriage bed.

1. If there is any agreeing on science, it is scientists agreeing with God and His Word, never the opposite.
2. There is a great difference between being born a eunuch and being born a homosexual. No one is born a homosexual, they choose to act out on their indecent sexual lusts.
3. There is no gay gene, yet even if it were established, is it cause or effect? And like any perversion of nature, it should be opposed.

No one is persecuting homosexuals, God ordained marriage as between one man to one woman, wherein before Him they become one flesh. To oppose falsely called gay marriage is not persecution, it is standing on God’s Word. Yet, it is now gays that are persecuting the Church, which was ever their father Satan’s goal, using that perverse lifestyle choice to attack the Church. Every day we read of gays and their liberal allies persecuting the Church and opposing God’s Word.

Bayne MacGregor

1, if there is any disagreement on science it is man’s flawed understanding of scripture which is at fault. The physical world is Gods direct creation, his word made solid, scripture is Gods word past through the hands and minds of man, his word translated. Creation will always be closer to God than humans writing of their understanding of God. This is why so many early scientists were Christians and so many now are still Christians. If this were not so the Bible and Christianity would have been shown to be false with Galileo and Copernicus centuries ago.

2, We are talking about Transgender, not Homosexual, so regardless of evidence that people may be born homosexual that’s irrelevant as this is about whether people are born Transgender which has nothing to do with lusts.

3, There are Transgender genes though which is the subject at hand. As for which came first genes may turn on or off (epigenetics) but are there from birth. If you believe in evolution there is an argument that behaviour increases how widespread a gene is in a population, if not then God just puts them there. Either way the Gene comes first and it’s inherited. The key point with these genes is that they are activated during pregnancy before birth while the baby is in the hand of God, still being formed, innocent and unable to sin beyond having the stain of original sin. And beware because now that this is known the Abortionists are already working to kill these babies!

As for marriage, the word comes from the Romans, and much of the modern celebration is Pagan Roman in origin. Marriage only became for heterosexuals only when Rome became Christian, before that gay marriage existed and Christians had the Jewish marriage-like-ritual which was not called marriage.

When Pagan Romans prevented Christian ceremonies such as Christians getting married was it right? No it was wrong.. and so too would be preventing pagans from celebrating Gay Marriages because that’s what doing unto others as you would have them do unto you requires of you. I know it’s hard sometimes but that’s exactly what Jesus said to do. Whether they are going to hell or not unless you would have them ban your own marriage and require you to only marry a gay person and live a gay life then you must not impose yours on them!

The earlier version in Exodus reminded the Jews that they had been strangers in the land of Egypt. Ever thought about that? There was homosexuality in Egypt, Polytheism, a very different way of life. Just as Jews would not want to be forced to live as Egyptians God told them to remember this when treating others different to them.

That means you don’t get to try the double-standard argument and say they aren’t oppressed being forced to live as Christians.

Pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, Gays.. Jesus said you are to treat them, to treat everyone, as you would have them treat you.

Robby Clewley

You are an EVIL man , not a man of Christ

tovlogos

Amen Neiman — I understand what you are saying.

Neiman

These things are but signs of the evil times in which we are living. Homosexuality and gay marriage are but tools that Satan is using to persecute the Church and oppose Christ; and people like Breaud and companies like Starbucks and Target, will profit from their being children of the evil for a season; while Christians should pray for them, as unless they repent their everlasting torment will be horrible.

Sadly, how many Christians will be willing to buy coffee elsewhere as a protest against this evil?

I should mention that Seattle, the home base of Starbucks is one of the most Soviet minded cities in America.

James Grimes

Starbucks was never your friend in the industry. As a big corporate entity, their only interest is the bottom line. If they can increase income by selling themselves to the Devil, they will do it. In fact, that’s exactly what they did.

Phipps Mike

for ONCE I agree with you James. Starbucks IS a GREEDY entity and you know that they set up shops at bookstores across the nation that is full of liberal college kids to sell coffee to. And their prices are expensive. Ulterior motives (money) are their true initiative.

franklinb23

So “money” and profit are not the motives of oil companies like Shell or of “conservative” companies like WalMart or Chick-fil-A?

Go see the homes that the CEOs of these companies live in, and then go look at the relative squalor that most of their employees live in, and then tell me that money isn’t their motive, either.

Phipps Mike

franklin, you are preaching to the choir. Of COURSE most big companies and chains are about money and profit, My statement wasn’t a “vs” type ideology.
I merely pointed out that Starbucks is just a bit too easy to figure out when they are using their facade to look empathetic to the underdog.

franklinb23

You’re just whining because they have a commercial you don’t find amusing, perhaps because guys wearing a dress (even for comedy’s sake) is something you find threatening?

James Grimes

This is the time for you to act like and be a man. Your lame, feminist-oriented response isn’t impressive. If you’re going to hang out with the adults, you need to act like one. BTW, keep your opinions to yourself. I don’t have time for them.

EastOldWest

How very tolerant of you! Keep up the good work, you are shining.

James Grimes

Sorry, but I’m not interested in Atheists’ opinions. Good bye.

EastOldWest

I am not an atheist. And your comment shows even less tolerance then I thought.you had.

James Grimes

I am very intolerant, especially for your nonsense. I only tolerate what the Bible says is true. Why are you intruding into a discussion that you are not part of? You, sir, are insignificant.

EastOldWest

And that part in the bible about not judging others you just choose to ignore them. Intruding, this is a public discussion forum. Anyone can come here and choose to join in. Just as a member of disqus you can go to any of the participants sites and join in.

You Missy, do not get to decided who is or who’s not insignificant.

wait for flash

Hi Oink 🙂 Still trying to bully homosexuals?”

Homosexual Pigs and Bullies pour out their greatest hatred, scorn and derision (which they seem to have huge supplies of) on anyone who dares to celebrate freedom from the dangerous homosexual lifestyle. They absolutely go ballistic when a person bravely and courageously renounces this dead-end lifestyle and moves on to liberty and freedom, and wholeness of life.

Sadly, they detract from the majority of homosexuals, family’s, friends, and others who are truly seeking or offering help…

Don’t ever let anyone tell you that you that you cannot be forgiven for homosexual behavior or any other sin. Here are links to ex-gay testimony, some written and some vids. There are thousands of these links available, just Google “ex-gay testimony”

Gay but not happy?http://unhappygay.wordpress.com/
This website is for homosexuals who are struggling with their unwanted homosexual thoughts, feelings and desires. It is meant to help homosexuals who want to change but do not understand their homosexual tendencies and behavior well. We hope to describe and explain how homosexuality emerges and develops, and why a person becomes a homosexual. Our mission is to give the repentant homosexual the help and hope to recover from his homosexual struggles because change is possible.

Homosexuals Anonymous…http://www.homosexuals-anonymous.com/
Homosexuals Anonymous is an international organization dedicated to serving the recovery needs of men and women who struggle with unwanted same sex attraction. This fellowship of men and women, who through their common spiritual, intellectual and emotional experiences have chosen to help each other live in freedom from homosexuality.

They’re not “cross dressers”. They’re drag queens, and they do it for laughs. However, I realize that the point of the commercial will go over the heads of most religious fanatics as they have no sense of humor.

Tina Taylor

and this is why most companies have policies that our personal opinions are just that and not to speak either way on behalf of our employers

Raiddan

When Bugs Bunny cross-dressed and kissed men they called it “Looney Tunes”. Today, we call it “LGBT” rights.

MattFCharlestonSC

How are any of you going to be upset that a pro-gay company made a pro-gay commercial? This has nothing to do with you. They are marketing to their customers. If a majority of their money came from conservative Christians, then they would be advocating for traditional marriage or remain neutral. I don’t drink
Starbucks coffee because I don’t think it’s worth $6… it has nothing to do with their stance on marriage.

Chrissy Vee

Always hearing about the “pride” of homosexuality. That’s two abominations in one. Well, three if you consider the great lie involved. People do not have to believe what Christians believe. After all, we all have a choice. But not believng the truth does not change the fact that it IS the truth.
I have a feeling the percentage stated of how many homosexuals are in this world are a lot lower than the actual. Figuring some closet folks in these big companies…my my my…
Blessed be the name of Almighty God, Creator of the heavens and the earth and the seas and everything in them! For THINE is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever!

ella

I am 19 years old straight female. An honors student in college. None of which should be dreadfully important. The thing I wanted to say is, after reading through these comments…
I am outraged and deeply hurt by the hate that is being proudly displayed here from the Christian community. I grew up in a very religious home, went to private catholic schools and participated in church functions weekly. I am not entirely oblivious to the meaning of ‘Faith’ although recently I am actively working to not identify with modern Christians and their philosophies.
It breaks my heart to even say so. As Christians we are supposed to love and accept everyone. Help the weak and support the strong.
Friends, this is a commercial about two friends who’s relationship is saved because a Starbucks barista made them their coffees in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe that’s a shallow plot line, but there’s not much one can do with only a minute to advertise and market a product on television.
Would you be so furious if this were two men (friends), a man and a woman? They are all just people. Just human beings. How can you dare to presume that you are so incredibly superior to your fellow people? Who do you think you are? If an atheist helps the homeless and leads a kind and giving life, do you really think God is going to say, “Well, you didn’t believe in me so off to Hell you go, despite the fact that you lived gracefully and practiced kindness that exceeds that of most “Christians.””
“Well, you loved with all your heart and soul and yes it was another woman, or another man, but you loved you loved you loved. But oh, you loved wrong. Go burn forever.” What in the universe is wrong with you people?
If God is as judgmental and as wretched as the lot of you, I want absolutely no part of your religion, your faith, your god. I would rather burn than be associated with you.
Do you think Ellen Degeneres, the kindest sweetest woman is going to Hell? LOL.
You are doing your principles a tremendous disservice by touting such hate — my generation won’t stand for it.
I pray that if you do make it to heaven. you will hopefully stand before MY God, who scolds you for your meanness and cruelty to your fellow man.
“God, Save me from your followers.”

SashaC

As an atheist, I just want to say that if more Christians were like you the world would be a better place. Thank you.

EastOldWest

Thank you for being what a Christian should be. Some of the mean-spirited comments on this page, on a regular news page would’ve been flagged and deleted. You have to wonder why they let them stand on a page that is Christian-based.Thank you again.

Neiman

If an atheist helps the homeless and leads a kind and giving life, do
you really think God is going to say, “Well, you didn’t believe in me so
off to Hell you go, despite the fact that you lived gracefully and
practiced kindness that exceeds that of most “Christians.”” “Well,
you loved with all your heart and soul and yes it was another woman, or
another man, but you loved you loved you loved. But oh, you loved
wrong. Go burn forever.”

No God will not say that, but He will ask ‘did you believe in and accept my Son as your only Savior and Lord, were you washed in His Blood?’ No one will gain Heaven by being good, Jesus said no one is good, no not one human being is good and none will gain Heaven by being good. Everyone there will be in hell by their own free will choice, because they did not repent of their sins, they did not believe in Christ, they were not converted and were not Born Again.

Jesus came to save sinners, not the righteous and first there must be a sincere belief in God, otherwise what is the point? Next, they must come to see that they are sinners deserving of hell and thereby know they have a need for a savior, then they will sincerely repent of their sins and seek Jesus as their only Savior and their Lord. There is no other way to salvation and heaven, not one atheist will be there, not one truly unrepentant soul, not one that did not come to salvation by the blood of Christ. No not one.

This liberal mantra of loving others is false, it really means, as it does with you, overlooking sin, excusing sin and that is a rejection of God’s Word and of Jesus. We can only truly love others by the love of Christ in us, we have no true selfless, self sacrificial love outside of Christ.

What about John the Baptist? He called all men to repent, he called them snakes and adulterers and made it clear that they were lost in their sins, was he unloving? When Jesus claimed that all have sinned, all have fallen short of the glory of God and would not see His salvation unless they repented and were born again of His Spirit, was He unloving?

Most Christians opposing homosexuality and gay marriage truly love these lost souls, trying to awaken them to their lost state and bring them to Christ for His forgiveness and salvation. Yes, just like the world did with our Lord, these people will hate them because of their testimony, like you do; but, in them is the love of Christ towards saving souls. You on the other hand, by saying atheists and unrepentant souls like homosexuals will be saved by being good are anti-Christ. That is what your Catholic Church and your liberal education have wrought, you are only leading souls away from Christ and into hell by your false ideas of salvation and your denial of Christ Jesus as the only way unto salvation.

Jack Rohde

All the Fags, Weirdo’s, Lezzbos, and Pedophiles, will love Starbuck’s now, we are doomed, and no one can figure out why this country in falling down, because we are cursing our selves by the sins we commit on purpose, and with false pride.

EastOldWest

You don’t talk like a Christian. Those are all very bad words you used. Shame on you. You can have an opinion without talking like that. 🙁

Clae Brewer

I’m a Christian and this has no effect on me. And Im still goin to go to Starbucks. Gays and cross dresser get served at McDonalds and in other fast food chains, what am I suppose to do go on a starving protest as a petition against them? Stop demonizing everything. Where there is no salt there cant any savor and where there is no light there cant be any shine of Jesus. How bout be a witness and show Christ love in any place God gives you liberty to venture. Matthew 5:14 “You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden.

Matthew N Renee

We are all sinners. Lets keep preaching the Gospel and reach as many as we can. We do not care how many people “leave the Church” or do not show up for the truth. We can take the Gospel to them out in the streets.

The Last Trump

You know, when companies like Starbucks want to go ahead and embarrass themselves by pandering to a controversial minority and “help overturn the nation’s federal Defense of Marriage Act” we really should respect their decision and move on. They’ve clearly chosen their customer base. Everyone else should buy elsewhere.

EastOldWest

Oh good it won’t be as crowded anymore.

Robby Clewley

I knew there was a reason i LOVED Starbucks. Another brave company standing up for marriage equality. I think my boyfriend and I will go grab a cup right now 🙂

Diane

And the Lord abhorred them because of the provoking of his sons and of his daughters. KJV Deut 32

EastOldWest

Isn’t Starbucks just one of the most wonderful places on earth?
I think I’ll go get myself a gingerbread latte right now.

as a sexologist, I am appaled that starbucks would confuse cross dressers with lgbt people…do they even know tht cross dressers can oftentimes be healthy heterosexual males ? Cross-dressing is hardly a homosexual theme . Transexuals are also not homosexuals, and bisexuals are a different category. Also prison male on male sex is not homosexual orientation, but is a display of power dominance in incarcerated males !…It is amazing that in this modern day of science and technology probably 90% of the population in lst world countries are ignorant of human sexuality ( forget about 3rd world countries and certainly forget about Islam majority countries ) . CROSS-DRESSING IS NOT SEXUAL ORIENTATION !!! . Homosexual orientation is part of the continuum of sexual orientation. Majority of people are born heterosexual, small % are homosexual, and an even smaller % are true bisexual ( equally attracted to either gender).
This is akin to
‘handedness’, ‘ right or left brain dominant’, ‘right or left eye dominant ‘ etc. In the general population a majority of people are right handed, a small % are left handed and an even smaller % of people are ambi-dextrous ( equally comfortable with using both hands ). We now know there biology/ genetics/epigenetics and the internal environment ( during fetal development ) of the human being determines his/her sexual orientation….more scientific studies are being conducted on human sexualityand everyday we are discovering amazing thing that show us how ignorant we are regarding human sexuality which is such an important part of the human experience. Our knowledge of human sexuality even in industrialized supposedly advanced country are befuddled by religious superstition and ignorance. In olden times for example women were targeted and victimized by religious ignorance and superstition and many a ‘witches ‘ were burnt at the stake, drowned in the river or hung from an old oak tree in Salem, Massachussets.
Later we now know that the convulsions and epileptic episodes of the female victims were due to Ergotism, due to contamination of baked goods/ bread by mold due to bad weather and bad harvest and since women were the ones doing the cooking and baking and had ingested the fungus and fungal spore they were the ones that came down with the disease. Due to religious bigotry and scientific ignorance ..women ( and black cats ) were victimized and killed for nothing. I believe in this modern day and times of space shuttle and our better understanding of quantum physics and cosmology and the understanding of the universe, our knowledge of human sexuality is still somewhere in the stone age if not in the horrific era of the Salem witch trial. Please comment if you agree with my assessement and is a person that is open minded and feel that religion is like a double edged sword, it has contributed horribly to the denigration of women even in modern society and certainly to the denigration and victimization of sexual minorities .
This indictment in particular applies to the so called ‘revealed’ religions/ Abrahamic religions, in particular islam, Christianity (altho in all fairness there has been much progress made in this religion in accepting sexual minorities and in new interpretation of biblical writings ), and Judaism. Among the maverick religions, perhaps Buddhism can be lauded to approach the subject of human sexuality in a humane stance based on psychology and an understanding of mind and consciousness….that is not to say that there are no bigots or ignoramuses in Buddhist, hindu and jain populations !

my small penny. There are so many standing up for “founding fathers” liberalism”, “God says not to judge”, etc. First, God really says not judging sin when you are doing twice as much (splinter vs plank). He also says “Judge righteous judgment” (John 7:24)
Secondly, founding fathers? Whatever. Heavenly Father. We need to stand on the truth of God. That’s it. The homosexual community feels it’s necessary to stand up for their rights, so why should we expect any less? Why should biblical Christians be silenced, and Homosexuals not? Don’t hand me that tired line about preaching hatred, taking away our rights nonsense. Not all Christians take that route. For you, in the gay rights community, it’s simply about shutting Christians up. I don’t care how many times I point to the fact of my having had very close friends who were in the life, and it not change my biblical message, it not being of hate but what the entire bible says about homosexuality, and I preach the same message against adultery, promiscuity etc,.It NEVER matters. In much the same way homosexuals and the LGBT community feel they must stand for their rights (and Christians should expect them to feel that way), how can they not expect biblical Christians, (not founding father Christians, or what made this nation great Christians) to stand up for what we also feel is right, in God’s eyes? It doesn’t matter. Society just wants us to shut up preaching against all sin. And please, Christians, stop acting like the “founding fathers” lived by the bible,and conservatives and this nation aren’t steeped in the sins of adultery, abortions and homosexuality. It’s not about any political party or nation. Simply God and lives of holiness to the Lord, not man.

apeiron

Starbucks was ALWAYS silly…never bought their over priced product.

ProclaimingGodsTruth

I for one will never again purchase a thing from this company. They will not use my money in their anti-Biblical campaigns.
Make no mistake we are within the Days of Lot and Noah – ramping up in the end days before the Lord’s return.

DaveL

I have been a Starbucks customer for years, but I can no longer contribute to this insanity. I am sure Starbucks will not miss me. That is okay. The immorality it is promoting will ultimately come back on it in spades. All of the blessings we now take for granted in this nation, including our prosperity, are conditional. When our culture becomes defined by Starbucks morality, the blessings will be withdrawn, and $5 lattes will become extreme luxuries.

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