I've been climbing sport for a while now, and want to make the transition to trad climbing as I'm a big fan of cracks. I have also recently acquired a new job after being a destitute university student for some time, and I've decided to blow my first pay packet on a brand new trad rack.

I've done a bit of research and think I'll get:
- a set of cams (probably the smaller sizes of C4s)
- at least one set of nuts (BD or DMMs)
- a set of hexes with slings, not wires

I've also just come back from thailand and a lot of Americans raved to me about ball nuts for really small placements, although I've never seen them used in Aus before.

Can anyone give me some recommendations or thoughts on the rack I want to build and ball nuts?

On 27/01/2013 Stugang wrote:>...Snip... Learn to walk before you learn to run, so buy RPs or similar before offsets.>Buy the offsets later when you're better at spotting placements.

I have to disagree here Stu. Being a gear whore I had a set of DMM walnuts, WC rocks and BD stoppers. That was until I received a set of the DMM offsets and peenuts. I love them and find they go in anywhere any of the other stoppers go though excel in weird shaped placements, anywhere.... I've since sold the Rocks and Wallnuts and I only kept the BD stoppers because they were a gift from my wife;)

>Ask what is best for where you are going to do most of your climbing,>i.e. don't bother with Rp's if you're going to learn to lead at Frog.

Good question; where will you be climbing?

I'm in Melb. (West side represent) and started with BD C4's .5-3 (Purple-Blue), Mastercams 000-1, a few quickdraws, slings, helmet and stoppers. My rack has since multiplied asexually and includes much more than I need;)

Camalots are good from thin hand sizes on up. In the smaller sizes, the width of the head is a pain and outweighs any other benefits. Since you're starting from scratch, I wouldn't buy a camalot smaller than green. In the small sizes, check out mastercams, the new spanish aliens, I think dmm and black diamond might be making alien clones too. The BD 3cu things are quite good also, but they only come in quite small sizes.

>I have to disagree here Stu. Being a gear whore I had a set of DMM walnuts,>WC rocks and BD stoppers. That was until I received a set of the DMM offsets>and peenuts. I love them and find they go in anywhere any of the other>stoppers go though excel in weird shaped placements, anywhere.... I've>since sold the Rocks and Wallnuts and I only kept the BD stoppers because>they were a gift from my wife;)

Shit, this reminds me of my job, and the wonderful saying 'opinions are like like arseholes...'. Which is to say Mikey, Im not convinced of the general purpose utility offsets for three reasons, (a) when I climb with them I use them, but when I climb without I make do just fine a very great majority of the time, (b) generally speaking offset nuts don't offer as useful endwise placements (c) some normal nuts like WC rocks have a taper that fits gently flaring cracks in an endwise orientation, and so offers some of the utility of an offset.

If you must get RPs or similar just get sizes 2 through 4, the smallest and largest aren't so useful.

I agree with ODH about C4s being most useful from .75 up, except if you climb with totem cams (great), in which case revise that to 2 and up. Which for a starting rack probably means just 2 & 3.

If your going to get Hexes, get the DMM ones, there are only 4, with long slings, the colour coding matches C4 cams, and they are a good shape.

I usually climb in the Bluies as I live in Sydney - forgot to add the crucial details. Pretty sure it's very varied up there so I'll come across a lot of different climbs, but I don't think it should radically change any of the advice you've given me so far.

I might buy both a normal and offset set of nuts as they are relatively cheap and I'm sure you guys will agree that I should get the hang of the passive gear so I don't rely on cams too much.

I'll probably just get a couple of cams of the larger sizes based on what you guys have said. I also have a few hexes that my dad gave me when he tried climbing in the 80's (along with a great canvas chalkbag and a fluoro purple dynamic rope), so I might just replace the cord and use those instead of buying some new ones.

On 28/01/2013 phillipivan wrote:>Shit, this reminds me of my job, and the wonderful saying 'opinions are>like like arseholes...'. Which is to say Mikey, Im not convinced of the>general purpose utility offsets for three reasons....

Good point Phillip. What I meant to say, in my original reply, was, 'I'm right and everyone else is wrong! Unless they're agreeing with me, than they're right too!' ;) heh heh heh

>I agree with ODH about C4s being most useful from .75 up, except if you>climb with totem cams (great), in which case revise that to 2 and up. Which>for a starting rack probably means just 2 & 3.

The totems are pretty darn awesome cams, I want some.

>If your going to get Hexes, get the DMM ones, there are only 4, with long>slings, the colour coding matches C4 cams, and they are a good shape.

On 28/01/2013 kinglukexiv wrote:>I usually climb in the Bluies as I live in Sydney - forgot to add the crucial>details.

Feel free to borrow my mega-loaner-rack (I'm near Newtown) for a few weekends. All bomber gear, just heavier older 90s gear.
In the blueys I use cams, hexes and big wires (can you jamb?), at Araps I use lots of smaller wires and RPs, cams and (on anything under 20) hexes.

Either way you're going to need 8+ slings and maybe a long cordolette/tanglette

Camalots from #0.5 to #3 or as large as you want, then master cams, aliens, or totem cams in the smaller sizes as small as you want. My totem cams ROCK.

Bulti's been trying to convince me that wired hexes are better, more reach etc. I'm partially convinced, but honestly if you're going to stop to place a hex it doesn't matter too much for me. You can use a cam anywhere you could use a hex.

One full set wires. Doesn't matter what type.

Don't bother with RP's or Ballnuts. If you want to buy fancy gear get a PAS or Grigri or something. Or a #6 camalot or big bros, haha.

Also get a new rope Luke, maybe a 70m, I'll be happy to break it in for you, mine and Bulti's are trashed and the doubles got brought back from the NZ alps after tender loving time with crampons.

On 28/01/2013 kinglukexiv wrote:
. I also have a few hexes that my dad gave me when he>tried climbing in the 80's (along with a great canvas chalkbag and a fluoro>purple dynamic rope), so I might just replace the cord and use those instead>of buying some new ones.> >Cheers for all the advice

Yes! Instant old school rack cred! That'll help with your shiney gear. That's what it's all about

If you are intending on climbing easier climbs in the blueys (like me) , it is worth putting some emphasis on larger gear. A lot of the easier climbs in the Blue Mountains tend to follow biggish cracks, which require biggish gear. Not to mention that in soft sandstone, your bigger gear is probably the stuff that will hold. I found a big difference in the gear needed when I moved here from NZ.

I suggest getting bigger than a number 3 C4. I get a fair a mount of use from my #4. I have C4s 0.4 - 5, and couple C3 cams. 1 & 2?. I'm never sure if the C3s are going to be any good in the sandstone, so they might not be key.

Definitely get some hexes, as these give you a 2nd piece of gear in a given size. I don't have a 2nd set of cams, although I am often with other people I can borrow from if needed (which does come up). I don't find much use from my smallest hex (wild country yellow one).

I often take a gold link cam with me, which means I can use my gold, red or green C4, without worrying too much about not having something in that size later. It is a bit of a compromise, but I think it works out well.

As for small gear, like peanuts, or RPs. Get these for climbing in Araps or something, they aren't much use in the blueys. I have a set and a half of wires, and that is usually plenty. 1 Set would probably do for most climbs.

Don't forget some of the less exciting gear, that trad tends to need.
-Cordelette (I like 7mm nylon cord)
-Long slings, Extendable Draws.
-Quickdraws that have carrot bolt suitable biners, and aren't super short.
-Carrot Hangers (not unusual to come across a bolt on the climb, or a couple at the top)
-Bunch of locking biners for anchors etc

On 29/01/2013 BBSR wrote:>If you are intending on climbing easier climbs in the blueys (like me)>, it is worth putting some emphasis on larger gear. A lot of the easier>climbs in the Blue Mountains tend to follow biggish cracks, which require>biggish gear. Not to mention that in soft sandstone, your bigger gear>is probably the stuff that will hold.

Second that - some of the better trad routes require at least a size 5, if not 6 camalot (Spartan, Peppercorner, Obituary)

Though it's worth asking around to borrow one or joining a club that has them; as it's about $200 a pop for one or two routes...

On 29/01/2013 martym wrote:>Second that - some of the better trad routes require at least a size 5,>if not 6 camalot (Spartan, Peppercorner, Obituary)

I haven't climbed a lot in the Bluies, but I still don't own a #6 or equivalent, and my #5 Friend doesn't get used very often.
The biggest cam I regularly carry is about a #4 Friend size, and even then I'll leave it behind if I think I can. The problem with fist-sized cams is if you need one, you probably need two or three of 'em.

Wired hexes are horrible. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, even me.

On 29/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:>I reckon there are lots of people who shouldn't be entitled to an opinion;)>>>Present company excluded...

Yeh but what do you think of wired hexes?
Personaly I think they suck compared to cord or tape ones because most of the time when you go to fiddle them out the wire slips thru and they dont move if they were tugged on when placed.

On 29/01/2013 White Trash wrote:>On 29/01/2013 Miguel75 wrote:>>I reckon there are lots of people who shouldn't be entitled to an opinion;)>>>>>>Present company excluded...>>Yeh but what do you think of wired hexes?>Personaly I think they suck compared to cord or tape ones because most>of the time when you go to fiddle them out the wire slips thru and they>dont move if they were tugged on when placed.