Thursday, August 03, 2006

Pretty Girls Are Hard To Draw, Pose and Animate

Boy, is it hard to draw girls. But girls are so cool in cartoons that I just have to do it.

Not only is it hard to draw them in a still pose, it's even harder to draw "functional" drawings of them - that is, consecutive drawings that move from pose to pose and have to do a continous action within a set story. Whattaya think, Chad??I always loved the few classic cartoons that animated pretty girls. My 2 favorites are Red Hot Riding Hood and Coal Black.I love the design and animation of Coal Black, particularly the Scribner scenes. Preston Blair's animation of Red Hot is not only, pretty, functional and smoothly animated-it's also animation of dancing! Holy crap. Talk about a pile of nuts to crack all at the same time!

This is an area of animated cartooning that is not explored enough. Maybe because it's so hard to do (David Germain excepted!)

If I had my way, I'd make lots of cartoons with pretty girls in them.

A funny thing, the best pretty girl artists these days seem to be girls! Katie, Lynne, Brianne and others all leave me in the dust.

Sody Pop is my favorite of the spumco girls so far. You gave her such personality in that pizza cartoon and she a jimmy just seem to fit well together.Can't wait to see more of her when you do that straight to DVD Godamn George Liquor neighborhood series.Check out the latest noir influenced pic's on my page if you get a chance.

Hi John, just wondering if you at all do comissioned drawings? I've got something that'd I'd like drawn, and I think you're the guy to do it. Would that be possible? If so, please email me at cody_howes@hotmail.comCheers mate

Thanks for elaborating on this point more. But I could still use some more elaboration. Is it actually physicaly difficlt or is there moreso a feeling of walking on eggshells (If I exaggerate things too much she looks ugly but if I don't exaggerate enough she looks stiff and boring)?

Also, why is the previous post locked? I didn't see things turn nasty in the commnts section.

The simplest possible characters using 40s principles are Elmer Fudd, Porky Pig and Tom and Jerry.

Tom and Jerry are each constructed out of a circle sitting on a pear, with 4 tubes coming out of them.

Have you seen any of the modern incarnations of Tom and Jerry? Not since the original 40s and 50s Hanna Barbera cartoons have they ever looked good. And those are the easiest 40s style characters to draw.

So if it's hard to draw a ball on a pear, imagine how hard it is to draw human anatomy-which is much more complex.

A cartoon girl doesn't have to be exactly realistic, but to be sexy, she has to have enough complex forms on her to get you excited.

And these complex and subtle forms have to be in just the right place. If you are off by a small fraction, the girl becomes ugly.

So doing 1 drawing of a sexy girl is extremely hard (how many people do you know who can do it?).

Now imagine moving her around in space and making her talk. It's infinitely harder than drawing and animating Elmer Fudd-which is already hard enough.

If it was easy to draw pretty girls, every male artist would be doing it.

They don't. It's a specialty and very few artists in history have been able to do it, and even fewer cartoonists.

Actually John.. I think that is a good idea, that should have been done a while ago.

It seems like there is an increasing number of ignorant people who are such huge losers that they have nothing better to do, but ruin this blog for everyone else with badly reasoned, ridiculously stupid and hateful comments, becuase they want to make a name for themselves by spamming hateful idiocy here.

It seems just becuase of your straightforward and honest opinions about cartoons today, that some offended people who can't accept that someone else who knows what they are talking about seem to want to provoke and get a rise out of you.

Just recently, a certain inexplicibly popular website has written a puzzingly uninformed, self-pitying, angsty, self-centered, hostile article about this blog, tempting even more abusive, rejects to come to it.

So, now, for whatever reason, there are people whining and writing sladerous, self-pitious garbage about your informed views from people who don't even work as cartoonists and have 0 percent of your infomed input.

So now there's a website run by a loser that's trying to post slander and purile, 3rd-grader written garbage about you and even Katie Rice, in a bad attempt to promote themselves off of your name.

So, allowing comments has left this board open to invasions by spamming little children and grade school-drop out webmasters trying to get some fame at your expence.

Sad to say, John but I think comment moderation is a good idea. There are too many people that listen to idiots and take their uninformed opinions over the word of a cartoonist that actually talks about cartoons on their own blog.

As bizarre as it may sound there are people that actually would rather promote the idea of coming to this blog and completly destroying the discussion here, in favor of common internet idiocy, becuase it amuses them for about 2 minutes.

I think if comments were moderated, the discussion value and the actual enjoyment of this blog would go way way up, so we can tune out the idiots and let the people that are actually intrested in discussing these posts rationally, discuss them.

The Internet IS hateful and sexual. Those are two of it's most defining features, save the digital ocean of Spam and Scam-ads. I ain't a blogger, but if I was one, I wouldn't touch anyone's comments. Sometimes they get so rediculous it's actually funny.

I think that most of the sexy girls drawn today are drawn in very close to the same style. Are there any examples anyone can give of sexy girls in a completely unique style that is still cartoony?

p.s. for those who are getting their feathers in a ruffle over the other website running an article that mentions John K.: it is clearly a comedy website and if you can't take a joke you have no business in cartoons.

Best post ever! I also like the hot chick in that Mr. Hook cartoon Clampett did? What was the name of that cartune, John?

That's Tokyo Woes, great cartoon.

I could see why you would want to moderate some comments, some are just pointless. It's one thing for someone to disagree with you and argue their point, it's another thing when anonymous douchebags just leave one line insults.

I've been drawing for about thirty years and I still can't get girls right. Although that probably says more about me than about the difficulty of drawing girls, maybe.

Katie is brilliant. Absolutely. How she manages to draw such flawless depictions of women, animate them, and keep them on-model (except for when she intentionally breaks that) is beyond me. Her mastery of overlapping and secondary action is amazing. I *loved* the Weird Al video! Between your Cigarettes the Cat and her women, it's a pretty fine piece, to be sure. I'd love to be able to look at that thing frame by frame.

Just so my first post here isn't just quoting a site bashing the owner of this here blog, I would also like to add that I've been a huge fan since the original Ren & Stimpy series, and I have the utmost respect for you, Mr. K. Keep doing what you're doing, and shake some goddamn money out of those execs so you can do even more!

Cheesecake is fluffy and delicious, and Sody is one of my favorite flavors.

If I remember, Tex said that Blair didn't even need any reference. He just drew 'em. I really like his dancing hippo from Fantasia, which is basically a fat broad. It's perfect- the weight, the heft, the grace. Outclasses many Disney performances.

If you wanna get this close to David Lynch, it costs 10 bucks a month, and you still probably can't get this close. Probably keeps the noise down, but I'd tolerate noise for 10 bucks a month.

Your girls are my favorite part of your drawings and cartoons. you and Dan DeCarlo have influenced me so much in concepts of beauty and cuteness. I love the combination of cute and sexy, the fantastic curves and the wonderful motion in your cartoons. Just beautiful :)

>>>"Katie is brilliant. How she manages to draw such flawless depictions of women, animate them, and keep them on-model (except for when she intentionally breaks that) is beyond me. Her mastery of overlapping and secondary action is amazing."

She designed the girls and drew layour poses but IIRC she isn't the [flash] animator of them--that compliment would go to the animator.

"A cartoon girl doesn't have to be exactly realistic, but to be sexy, she has to have enough complex forms on her to get you excited.

And these complex and subtle forms have to be in just the right place. If you are off by a small fraction, the girl becomes ugly."

I agree with that. There isn't a universal "Sexy Girl" body type. Instead there is a golden ratio of curves to angles that the human mind equates to sexy.

Finding out this formula of forms is an art in itself. Too many curves and she looks loose and flabby, too many angles and she looks bony and skinny. When you find that perfect medium you're in.

A lot of it comes down to personal taste as well. Frank Cho draws some sexy women, but they are a completely different body type than anything you or Katie draw. When I draw girls they tend to be more flowing and curvy than yours, which look more round and bouncy.

Last night I watched "Visit to Anthony" and the mom was one of the few really generic characters I've seen in a spumco cartoon. Surprising...how could you resist drawing a hot mom? Or maybe this is what John is talking about. On the other hand, whoever drew the bully's father had their shit together. Just that shot of him looking out the car window with that cool rock'n'roll playin...makes me laugh just thinkin about it.

I've always enjoyed the cartoon women drawn by Spumco. I think Katie's women are filled with tons of character and personality. When's the Weird Al video being released? I really want to see it!

Anonymous, Michael Barrier is just jealous because his boring commentary could knock an insomniac unconscious. Seriously, I've never been able to sit through an entire Looney Tune short with his commentary track. He manages to make some very exciting cartoons seem extremely dull.

Comment moderation is a touchy subject, and if abused can easily ruin a board or a good heated discussion. If it's not used too liberally, and is just done to take out the one line insults, that's one thing. If you use it to take out every disagreement that anyone has (which some people do), that's something else. Personally, I wouldn't have the time for either, and I'd imagine that you're just as busy as I am, or moreso.

Forgot to add, the best thing about a Barrier commentary is the interview clips that he uses, especially the ones from the late 60's-early 70's. You learn an awful lot from those because the memories of the interviewee was usually pretty fresh at the time.

This is an area of animated cartooning that is not explored enough. Maybe because it's so hard to do (David Germain excepted!)

I think I know why I didn't have a relatively tough time with my witch character. I didn't really try to make her sexy. She was an anti-social, ferrel, spazoid freak who lived alone in a house dep in the woods for who knows how long. In fact, she hated people so much that she goes crazy because a part of her body has the potential to create MORE people. Who would she try to be sexy for? And why?So, with that hurdle subsided, I had more freedom to distort her with the animation as much as I wanted. I didn't worry about keeping her "feminine" or "soft" in any way.

I suppose if I had wanted her as sexy as John makes his girls, I'd have had more difficulties.

>What about Mickey Mouse? His construction seems pretty simple, if not, simpler than the other characters you listed.

That's more of the 20s/30s style Ub Iwerks character. Elmer, Tom, and the Dwarves are the 40s style (40s style characters in the 30s)

>John, not to get off topic here, But what is Michael Barriers problem? In his last post about DVD commentaries, he is taking some rather venomous swipes at you.... http://www.michaelbarrier.com/What's up with that

Hahaha, that was one of the funniest things I've read in awhile! John and Mike have have a friendly rivalry for awhile, each taking swipes at each other, but I think they're still friends. Mike thanked John in his book, Hollywood Cartoons. John is friends with Mike's pal Milt and Mike is friends with John's pal Eddie, anyway.

#1 was a jab at Eddie. I've nevr heard John lauhg maniacally in a commentary.

#2 was John

#3 was a jab at John and Jerry Beck.

#4 was John and Eddie.

>Anonymous, Michael Barrier is just jealous because his boring commentary could knock an insomniac unconscious. Seriously, I've never been able to sit through an entire Looney Tune short with his commentary track. He manages to make some very exciting cartoons seem extremely dull.

It's his voice, but he's extremely knowledgable and his interview clips are first rate! Even if he goes off on tangents sometimes...

I love Sody Pop's "back" angle in those drawings. I definitely want to see more of her. She's a sexy, but she's also kind of enthusiastic which is entertaining to watch too.

I don't get Michael Barrier's opinions at all. Seriously, every time I think I have a pattern of what the guy does like or not...he surprises me with a new review.

I also love Shane Gliness' (spelling?) work. About Harley Quinn, I think she's quite sexy when well drawn. Ok, maybe the animation in Batman Animated Series is quite limited, but it got a little better after some time. I think they are better artists than it seems, I quite like the Tv show visuals the way it was, thouhg I understand it's a little stiff for John K's standards. However, take a look at Batman's Mad Love graphic novel. I think the characters look more cartoony and "alife" than in the actual cartoons, and especially Harlie Quinn looks extremely sexy in some of the drawings.

Did you design/animate the sexy girl in the Rolling Stone's "Harlem Shuffle?" And for that matter, did you design/ animate the cats too? I'm not sure what the split was between you and Bakshi on that. Thanks

Heh, I just read Mike Barrier's post about Looney Tunes Golden Collection commentaries. He did make me laugh this time. I expect John'd find it funny too...

However, I still think John's commentaries are much more entertaining. Well, I had only listened the one in Piggy Bank Robbery but it was really entertaining. Incidentally, can you believe they are selling Golden collection 3 WITHOUT ANY OF THE EXTRAS here in Spain? It's especially annoying when they did include the extras in the previous sets...

mann your girls are awesome. They are incredibly hard to draw for me, especially how the neck goes on the body. I always manage to make it look unnatural somehow, gotta work my anatomy skills. Tried to draw one of my friends Iris tonight.Much luv for your and katies girls. They are done so well!

>However, take a look at Batman's Mad Love graphic novel. I think the characters look more cartoony and "alife" than in the actual cartoons, and especially Harlie Quinn looks extremely sexy in some of the drawings.

I don't mean the final result looking rotoscoped like the "Waking Life" style - but the way that Snow White, and also, for example the Fairy Godmother in Cinderella moved. And to a lesser extent Red Hot Riding Hood. To me it seems clear that they worked from filmed models acting out the movements.

Pencil sketches of Snow White on this page:http://www.xs4all.nl/~hwalther/snowwhite.htm looks like they were working from a model to me. And then when you look at the dwarfs and see the comic exagerrations of their forms and faces it bears out John K's point about it being easy to draw males as you can make them ugly - but not so for pretty girls. Her shape has to look far closer to natural in order for her character to work.

Wow! A little late to the game here, but to get the thumbs-up from John K. is great praise indeed. Sody-Pop is one of my fave cartoon girls ever, and I kick myself to this day for not ordering the pencil-topper when I had the chance back in 1994.

I totally dig all the artists mentioned, BTW...Timm, Glines, Xaime, Yeagle...such great stuff!

Ryan G., are you the dude who was busting my balls at Chicago Con all last weekend?

strange I always found pretty girls easy to draw...well once I finished learning from masters like Andrew Loomis, Stephen Rogers Peck (Head and Hands) and taking guides from all my modern hero's of illustration that is . ;)

This is a comment geared toward max ward, he states that pretty girls are hard to draw, pose, and animate. Well I'm here to say that if you are looking to learn how to draw a hot girl or a sexy looking bad girl you can just go to http://www.dragoart.com. They have tons of tutorials that might be useful to you. I Just thought I'd get that out there.

hey john, im thinking about making my own cartoon and i was wondering if i would be able to use the spumco girls in my cartoon and do i have to pay just to draw my own and use them? please write back. thank you.