Still kind of confused by my Hit rating - any advice please?

Post by PaleKing

Hello,I'm pretty confused by the whole business of hit and expertise caps. I have tried trawling through a lot of help guides on all sorts of helpful and detailed sites and although there is often presented a huge amount of detailed information, it's the basics that are still puzzling me.

My Hit Rating at the moment is as a lvlv 85 Draenei 1697 (+16.56% hit chance). As a dual wielding melee I read that my chance to miss is 24%. Does this mean that I need to get my Hit Rating up from +16.56% to +24% in order to get my miss rate to zero? - (2,210 Hit Rating for Draenei at lvl 90, and that is my Hit Cap?)

I read on Icy Veins that "Hit Rating decreases the chance that your melee attacks will miss their target (7.5% against a raid boss). Therefore, your goal is to reach the 7.5% hit cap (see section below), which will ensure that your attacks never miss.. Where does this 7.5% come from? Is that just special attacks? i.e. the soft cap? If so, why is it advising that at 7.5% my attacks never miss? Should I not be aiming for 24%

I'm just as confused with my Expertise cap. It seems I'm on 538 (5.25%). Am I as far off the mark as I think I am?

Any help with the basics would be appreciated. I really don't know what I should or shouldn't be aiming for at the moment with regard to gear at the moment.

Post by Darango8

I'm going to assume you're an Enh Sham. This means you need 7.5% hit AND 7.5% expertise(which eliminates your chances of the target dodging). The combination of the two satisfies the 15% hit rating.

In game, it should show your % of hit that you have, just by looking in the melee section of your character profile. If you put your mouse on that number, the window pops up and shows you your chance of missing different level mobs. I'm confused where this 24% is coming from though, if you satisfy the above requirements, you should be good to go.

Post by PaleKing

Sorry, but I'm clearly missing something fundamental. If my hit chance is listed as +17.5%, how come I still have chance to miss a level 87 boss? Its listed as miss chance 8.94% vs a level 88. Therefore I'm not hit capped? but if I need 15% and I'm on 17.5...?

I've found plenty of detailed explanations on hit caps but there is something counter-intuitive going on that I'm not getting here...

Post by Merberan

There's a difference between the special cap and the white hit cap. White hit cap only affects your melee attacks, while special cap makes sure your stormstrike etc doesn't miss. The basic percentage you need is 7.5%, for both hit and expertise. More hit will make you white melee swings hit more often, but is usually quite neglegible compared to other stats such as crit, haste and mastery.

Post by Darango8

Well you stated that your expertise is only at 5.25%, which is below the expertise cap and will make you miss. Could have something to do with you not being level capped and these numbers all come into equilibrium then, I don't know.

Post by Twizelbang

All abilities that youuse "spells "etc.. for attacking / doing damage. These are called "special attacks" (Yellow damage)

This has its own cap rating. This is set at 7.5% - This will stop any "spells "etc.. from missing the Boss. (This is also called a "Soft cap")

Next type:

"White damage" / "Auto attack." ( meleehits )

When you enter combat your character will hit the target & start doing "Auto attacks", ( meleehits ). This is when you can miss lots, even if you have 7.5%, since the Hardcap, for this is loads higher, near impossible to actually reach.

This is a normal mechanic, so don't worry if you miss... only worry if you keep "missing" ..time after time.. Then this is a problem.

So depending on your class, some might try to get a balance between getting extra hit.. so "Auto attacks" , ( meleehits ), don't miss so often. This can increase the over-all damage that you can do. Since you will miss less often.

Expertise: has a "soft cap" set at 7.5% for DPSplayers... "Very important to get this amount".

"Warning" This is only when you standbehindor at the side* of a boss. For this mechanic will work.

"Side" This means more near its back legs / middle , sometimes Boss can Cleave, parry. If near the front legs.

Post by lordlundar

And for a brief summary that in no ways is meant to be a "is all end all" reference. (It's also how it was explained to me when I started tanking back in Wrath, those these references might have changed since then)

Hit affects your special attacks chance to miss. If there is a chance to miss, you will see "Miss!" pop up in the Scrolling Combat Text.

Expertise affects your ability to bypass a dodge from your target. If it fails, you will see "Dodged!" pop up on the SCT.

There is a third avoidance Which pops up as "Parried!" on the SCT. This is a frontal mechanic so attacking from the back or flanking position prevents this from popping up by default. If everything goes smoothly the only one that should be seeing the parry response should be the tank. It's why positioning is so integral for tanks. Their ability to keep attackers in front of them so they can parry attacks and to keep enemies backs to the group so party members attacks don't get parried.

Post by ChairmanKaga

Sorry, but I'm clearly missing something fundamental. If my hit chance is listed as +17.5%, how come I still have chance to miss a level 87 boss? Its listed as miss chance 8.94% vs a level 88. Therefore I'm not hit capped? but if I need 15% and I'm on 17.5...?

I've found plenty of detailed explanations on hit caps but there is something counter-intuitive going on that I'm not getting here...

You seem to be looking at normal (auto-attack) hit chance, not special hit chance.

Dual-wield specs, as a rule, disregard the normal hit cap. (For non-dual-wield specs, the normal and special caps are the same.) As dual-wield, auto-attacks are negligible to your overall DPS, so once your specials are hit-capped, you should start pushing more important secondary stats (crit, haste, etc) instead of continuing to stack hit.

As stated by previous posters, 7.5% Hit + 7.5% Expertise is the special cap. You generally want to get within epsilon of the cap without going over, as any excess has zero value. (Optimization sites like Mr. Robot are starting to aim for this.) Dual-wield is slightly different, as you can theoretically keep going to the hard cap, but the relative value of hit/exp drops to near zero once you cross the special cap line, so you still want to aim for as close to the special cap as possible.

Post by Azrile

You are confusing yourself by going to too many different sites.

It is very easy.

1. Open up your character2. Hit- Make sure your miss chance is 0% for special attacks3. Expertise - Make sure your dodge chance is 0%

that is all.

For parry, and ´miss normal melee attacks´.. it is ok, to get them lower, but there are much better stat priorities. Once you get dodge to 0 and special attack misses to 0, then it takes a lot of math to figure out which stats are best, but it usually is not expertise or hit rating.

Post by PaleKing

As strange as it may seem, I think that this advice is what I've needed! My head has been a bit boggled trying to take in everything in Elitist Jerks and WoWWiki on Hit etc and perhaps I've been looking too hard!

I do appreciate all the help guys. Cheers.

Post by PaleKing

Normal attacks listed for lvl 85-88 all have a chance to miss (ranging from 4.7% - 9.2%) because I have not hit my hard hit cap of 2210 for a lv 90 Draenei. That would be the point I hit with all auto-attacks.

My special attacks are all listed as 0% chance of missing for up to lvl 88 bosses. That would be because I have hit my soft cap.

My Expertise is 538, which gives me 0% chance to be dodged by lvl 85 and 86 but a chance of dodge by bosses of higher level than that.

So, am I right in thinking that now I've hit the soft cap (for my level?) I should ignore hit for a while as pushing for the hard hit cap offers negligible returns? I should instead aim for more expertise until I get everything down to 0%?

Cheers.

Post by ElhonnaDS

The target percentage (once you are max level and want to raid or do heroics) for Hit and Expertise are 7.5% each. It's not just important to hit those numbers- it's also important not to be too far over, because those extra stat points are wasted.

If I have a 0% chance to miss at 800 (or whatever it is at 85) then every point over that doesn't make me any more likely to hit, so it's just wasted. The same with expertise- if someone has a 0% chance to dodge my attack at 700, then anything above that will have no effect (or minimal- it affect parry, but you shouldn't be in front of the boss anyway. It affects the white damage, but not as much as other stats would help your DPS).

If you have +16%, then whatever points you have that contribute to the percentage above 7.5% you are basically just flushing down the drain. What I would recommend is find out what your best secondary stat is (I don't play enhance, so I'm not sure which it is) and reforge as much hit as you can into that stat so it's not wasted.

Also, don't worry too much about your caps until max level. The reason they're important is because raid and heroics bosses are generally higher than max level, and you need certain percentages to hit them consistently. While leveling, you will generally be attacking mobs, even in dungeons, that are the same level as you, or lower, and whose mechanics are a lot less forgiving of a couple of misses, so capping at every level isn't a huge deal.

Post by Darango8

Dude all it comes down to is that the hit ratings everyone is talking about is for a level 90 duel wielding melee. Things might be scaled differently now since you're not level capped.

Since you should be leveling and getting a new piece of gear every so many quests, I would not worry for one second about what your hit rating is until you start doing pve at the level cap. And that's when 7.5% of each hit and expertise will make sense to you.

Post by Azrile

Dude all it comes down to is that the hit ratings everyone is talking about is for a level 90 duel wielding melee. Things might be scaled differently now since you're not level capped.

Since you should be leveling and getting a new piece of gear every so many quests, I would not worry for one second about what your hit rating is until you start doing pve at the level cap. And that's when 7.5% of each hit and expertise will make sense to you.

Yeah, my bad, I didn´t realize that you were talking about lvl 85.

Absolutely forget about it for now. Just take the highest ilvl item you come across as you level. Leveling is very easy, and even if you are missing a few of your special attacks it will make no difference.

Really the only time you have to worry about this is when you are at 90 and doing dungeons or raids. You are way overthinking it right now. Just relax, grab new gear when it is higher ilvl and move through the zones. When you have done a few heroic dungeons, and have an ilvl above 465, then you should worry about hit caps etc.

Post by PaleKing

I understand the point you are making regarding level, but I was just as confused by the whole thing when I was level capped at 85 before MoP was released...

Post by lonewarrior

Using old pre MoP system for simplicityYour stats: zero hit percentage/expertise with 10% crit rating... melee dual wielding 27% miss penaltywhite auto attack. Meaning if you just sat there and watched your toon attack the target dummy without you touching your action bar.

Attack table:Missdodge parry glancing blowblockcrithit

Attacking a mob boss +3 levelsYou are in front of your targetThe attack system uses a dice roll to determine outcome of your attack.

Just using the last two lines..if you increased your crit rating to 20% your roll table at the bottom would look like this roll 41.01 - 61= your attack will critical strike( 20% crit rating) roll 61.01 to 100 =you will have a normal attack(what's left of your roll)

Now special(yellow attacks)the table is different. You have only an 8% chance to miss them. They don't suffer the dual wield penalty nor could they be glanced.

Duel wielders don't suffer for having too much hit. Where let's say an arms warrior using one weapon has no need for going over the 8% hit cap.

The difference in MoP is the employment of a second roll.The first roll determines all factors except critical strike.If the first roll determines if you have hit your target then a second roll will determine if it is a critical strike.So if you have 30% critical strike rating then the second roll will look either likeroll 1-30=crit 30.01 to 100 normal hit or vice-verse. Not sure here. I haven't had the chance to seek out if the percentages have changed in MoP which is why I used the old system.

This link is for rogues..but since dual wielding enhance shammy are similar ..it's still an informative read.

If anyone notices any mistakes please correctHope this help more then it confused :P

Post by MariaSangria1974

May your harvest be great and your livestock fat! Oh my goodness, thank you for this.Hours of pain searching the internet, feeling the same as this person who asked the question.Asking people in-game and being ignored. Thank you a LOT.

Post by rabican1

Hello,I'm pretty confused by the whole business of hit and expertise caps. I have tried trawling through a lot of help guides on all sorts of helpful and detailed sites and although there is often presented a huge amount of detailed information, it's the basics that are still puzzling me.

My Hit Rating at the moment is as a lvlv 85 Draenei 1697 (+16.56% hit chance). As a dual wielding melee I read that my chance to miss is 24%. Does this mean that I need to get my Hit Rating up from +16.56% to +24% in order to get my miss rate to zero? - (2,210 Hit Rating for Draenei at lvl 90, and that is my Hit Cap?)

I read on Icy Veins that "Hit Rating decreases the chance that your melee attacks will miss their target (7.5% against a raid boss). Therefore, your goal is to reach the 7.5% hit cap (see section below), which will ensure that your attacks never miss.. Where does this 7.5% come from? Is that just special attacks? i.e. the soft cap? If so, why is it advising that at 7.5% my attacks never miss? Should I not be aiming for 24%

I'm just as confused with my Expertise cap. It seems I'm on 538 (5.25%). Am I as far off the mark as I think I am?

Any help with the basics would be appreciated. I really don't know what I should or shouldn't be aiming for at the moment with regard to gear at the moment.

Right now the only number you should be worried about is 90. Get your character to 90, and then start worrying about how to balance stats.

Post by yzq85

Draenei have a bonus to Hit rating, which is why you need 2210 to cap @ 90. Others need 2550.

For dual-wielding, you should look at your chance to hit using skills. If you auto-attack while dual- wielding, your chance to miss is super high. Also, no one aims to cap Hit so that their auto attacks while dual- wielding never miss.

Most guides only have a hard cap and soft cap distinction for expertise. Hit rating usually only has 1 cap, the 7.5% one.

Post by mr120

I think the answer you are looking for is,

You aim to get special attacks down to 0% miss, at 90 (not sure of other levels) 7.5% of hit and expertise is required.

But if you go over that number you do yourself no justice, as spending the available gear stat allowance on crit/mastery/haste would actually increase your dps MORE than if you spent that allowance on further hit or exp.

It's better to have a few white (autoattack) attacks miss, but gain a bigger chance to critically hit the target with the attacks that DO hit (namely the special attacks).

Edit: Ahh /sigh.. bloody necro thread..

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