With emphasis in italics and bold face, he added: "We need you to focus on our primary mission of defending our nation and our allies spying on your friends, family, neighbors and everyone else in America."

"Both sides are becoming identical, what in fact is being created is an international community, a perfect blueprint for world order.When the sides facing each other suddenly realize they are looking into a mirror, they will see this, is the patten for the future. The whole world, as the Village.

lostcat:It still honestly surprises me that the "leak" was a revelation to so many people.

Maybe I'm just old and jaded.

Well some people are lying about what was actually said. Snowden made it sound that the government could listen into US citizen conversations any time with a warrant. Then they asked him more question about it and found out that really wasn't the case.

But that's not stopping people from continue to say and pretend something that isn't actually true.

Corvus:Well some people are lying about what was actually said. Snowden made it sound that the government could listen into US citizen conversations any time with OUT a warrant. Then they asked him more question about it and found out that really wasn't the case.

Corvus:/I know I will get lots of insult and strawman replies from this of people shouting me down.

You damn right you'll get shouted down you government-paid traitor.

"That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary." - Senator Barack Obama, August, 2007

"The ongoing national dialogue is not about your performance," Gen. Keith B. Alexander told NSA employees in a message this week. The workforce "has executed its national security responsibilities with equal and full respect for civil liberties and privacy. The issue is one that is partly fueled by the sensational nature of the leaks and the way their timing has been carefully orchestrated to inflame and embarrass."

Well quite frankly, you should be embarrassed for spying on innocent people. Governments can regain the respect and trust of their citizens if they stop doing illegal, immoral or embarrassing shiat with our tax dollars. For the last several years, authoritarians have been slamming us with that "if you're not doing anything wrong, then you have nothing to hide" routine. Perhaps they should learn how to play it straight, too. And the way you accomplish that is by regaining the respect and trust of the American people.

The only way to do that is to play it straight, not lie about what you do and do what you say you'll do. You see, the thing about calling yourself a "democracy" is that occasionally, you're required to act like one. And even in a fake democracy like ours, the people should be able to get what they want once in a while.

deanis:Before this "scandal", what did people think the NSA actually did? What's it like living under those rocks?

I have no problem with a government that spies on foreigners, other governments (even "allies"), external threats etc. . If fact I expect them to do that an would consider them negligent if they did not do so.It is the domestic spying absent probable cause and warrants I have a problem with.

I don't even have a problem with drone attacks against enemies on foreign soil. It is not like what is essentially a battlefield lends itself to due process.

WhoopAssWayne:You damn right you'll get shouted down you government-paid traitor.

"That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary." - Senator Barack Obama, August, 2007

I highly doubt Corvus is a government paid traitor, if such a thing could exist.

The bolded stuff is what is important about what BO said. He was specifically protesting the Bush-era abuses of putting the NSA beyond the purview of the FISA court. There is nothing here that suggests that BO is saying that FISA supervised surveillance of US citizens is improper or illegal.

You can argue differently about FISA, and it's probably a good argument to have, but this really doesn't show any gross hypocrisy on BO's part.

hasty ambush:I have no problem with a government that spies on foreigners, other governments (even "allies"), external threats etc. . If fact I expect them to do that an would consider them negligent if they did not do so.It is the domestic spying absent probable cause and warrants I have a problem with.

But you do acknowledge that some of the people who intend to do harm to the US are actually in the US, legally, and are regularly communicating with accomplices and handlers outside of the US, right?

How do you propose that the governement maintain awareness of those threats, which seem much more relavant than what some foreigner on another continent is doing?

Nem Wan:You're incorrect.Fisa court oversight: a look inside a secret and empty processThe top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant

Again, there is an argument to whether or not the current FISA rules are appropriate or even Constitutional. It feels to me that they have granted over-broad discretion to the NSA. However, executive branch directed surveillance, when it involves US persons, is subject to laws written by the Legislative branch and overseen by the Judicial branch.

It appears that you have a problem with one of the three independent branches of the government being laxer in their interpretation of the 4th Amendment than you would like. But this is certainly not the case of the executive operating illegal spying, at least as under the applicable laws and oversight.

Skleenar:but this really doesn't show any gross hypocrisy on BO's part.

That most certainly is exactly what is shows, and no amount of whitewashing or astroturfing by you or anyone else will change it. You and many others went to the streets to protest these crimes when someone else was in office, and now you're propping them up, you piece of sh*t scumbag.

WhoopAssWayne:That most certainly is exactly what is shows, and no amount of whitewashing or astroturfing by you or anyone else will change it. You and many others went to the streets to protest these crimes when someone else was in office, and now you're propping them up, you piece of sh*t scumbag.

You're incorrect, at least as regards me. I certainly spilled a lot of ink (pixels) in protest of Bush asserting pre-eminence of the Executive over the Judicial as regards to spying on US persons. But I did not protest the lawful engagement of surveillance. There IS a difference. You are conflating things.

Keep telling yourself there's a difference, dumbass. You and the other liberal scumbags are whitewashing the very crimes you once protested against, you damn well know it, and it's eating you up inside to know you're a fraud, as it damn well should. Keep whitewashing these criminals you piece of sh*t.

FTA: "'Let me say again how proud I am to lead this exceptional workforce, uniformed and civilian, civil service and contract personnel," he continued. "Your dedication is unsurpassed, your patriotism unquestioned, and your skills are the envy of the world.""