On September 11 2019 22:01 stilt wrote:Serral is such a nice guy, he seems against region lock and thinks Z op, I wonder why koreans' exclusive fans dislike him

I actually think he can be pretty funny at times. I used to be bothered that he won so many tournaments because I thought he was being over hyped but now I respect him as a great player.

I usually am not really rooting for him to win but it is a similar story to Maru. Feels like both of them have won so much already that it feels unfair. That's why I'm not really rooting for Dark to win this GSL even though he's one of my favourite players. And if I am to be totally honest, I sometimes don't want him to win tournament because I don't want to wake up next day and have to read foreigners > Korean or Korean scene ded. I honestly don't mind if people say Serral is almsot GOAT/bonjwa because even though I disagree, I think it is a valid opinion and he's definitely in the discussion for both.

On September 10 2019 16:55 midhigh wrote:I am not saying i could do it, but for me it is really suprising no terran player basically has ever tried to flank with ghosts. They usually send their ghost's to nuke, while they could try to flank with a group of ghosts from many angles to EMP Infestors, and actually try to kill the Zerg army, or weaken enough to win later. We have seen many games and fights won by Zergs (mostly Serral), against superior army with good ling/roach/etc flanks.

One of the best and most recent examples:

I know, it is kind of risky, but when you are already behind (because Zerg late game is OP theorically), you must try to do something unexpected.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

On September 10 2019 16:55 midhigh wrote:I am not saying i could do it, but for me it is really suprising no terran player basically has ever tried to flank with ghosts. They usually send their ghost's to nuke, while they could try to flank with a group of ghosts from many angles to EMP Infestors, and actually try to kill the Zerg army, or weaken enough to win later. We have seen many games and fights won by Zergs (mostly Serral), against superior army with good ling/roach/etc flanks.

I know, it is kind of risky, but when you are already behind (because Zerg late game is OP theorically), you must try to do something unexpected.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

On September 10 2019 16:55 midhigh wrote:I am not saying i could do it, but for me it is really suprising no terran player basically has ever tried to flank with ghosts. They usually send their ghost's to nuke, while they could try to flank with a group of ghosts from many angles to EMP Infestors, and actually try to kill the Zerg army, or weaken enough to win later. We have seen many games and fights won by Zergs (mostly Serral), against superior army with good ling/roach/etc flanks.

I know, it is kind of risky, but when you are already behind (because Zerg late game is OP theorically), you must try to do something unexpected.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

On September 10 2019 16:55 midhigh wrote:I am not saying i could do it, but for me it is really suprising no terran player basically has ever tried to flank with ghosts. They usually send their ghost's to nuke, while they could try to flank with a group of ghosts from many angles to EMP Infestors, and actually try to kill the Zerg army, or weaken enough to win later. We have seen many games and fights won by Zergs (mostly Serral), against superior army with good ling/roach/etc flanks.

I know, it is kind of risky, but when you are already behind (because Zerg late game is OP theorically), you must try to do something unexpected.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

On September 10 2019 16:55 midhigh wrote:I am not saying i could do it, but for me it is really suprising no terran player basically has ever tried to flank with ghosts. They usually send their ghost's to nuke, while they could try to flank with a group of ghosts from many angles to EMP Infestors, and actually try to kill the Zerg army, or weaken enough to win later. We have seen many games and fights won by Zergs (mostly Serral), against superior army with good ling/roach/etc flanks.

I know, it is kind of risky, but when you are already behind (because Zerg late game is OP theorically), you must try to do something unexpected.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

You're also free to point out where i am wrong.

Actually you just proved my point more that most whiners such as yourself are Gold and has no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

But I'm done feeding a troll like you. Arguing with Terran fanboys is similar arguing with someone who still believes Earth is flat. But feel free and carry on with the rest of your crew.

In general, Terrans never adapt/evolve their playstyle compare to toss and zergs.

Terrans were always praised for their bio splits against banes or HT for years. However, today splitting is a basic skill that all 3 races have in their skillset

Toss and Zergs learned how to use their spellcaster more effectively, e.g warp prism HT. Both toss and zergs know how to flank with their spellcasters at different locations/angles

Been almost a decade and terran still use ghost the same way. Ghost will ALWAYS bunched with the bio and come in the front (one direction). You will never see them use ghost and flank from behind or even hide them in medivac.

Terran engagements has always been the same with very minor changes through the years. Frontal engagement and hopefully break enemy with brutal bio DPS

Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

You're also free to point out where i am wrong.

Actually you just proved my point more that most whiners such as yourself are Gold and has no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

But I'm done feeding a troll like you. Arguing with Terran fanboys is similar arguing with someone who still believes Earth is flat. But feel free and carry on with the rest of your crew.

It's a bad thing to brag about one's own skill so i will do it for luolis, he is about gm level and was available to vote for in the recent nation wars polls for finland. You on the other hand are a new account with 18 posts. I wonder who we'll give more credence based on these informations in general :O

BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | Rosé | IU | Yuna Kim | SoHyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone

On September 11 2019 00:13 deacon.frost wrote:[quote]Is this a troll account? HAve you like ever seen the top Maru's games? The ones where the spectator has issues of following the fight on the maximum zoom-out while Maru engages from 3 different angles, simultaneously? IN HOTS? Where have you been when mulitple shifts in T play happened? It may surprise you but T play evolved. If nothing else - the damn Raven play?

Like, seriously?

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

You're also free to point out where i am wrong.

Actually you just proved my point more that most whiners such as yourself are Gold and has no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

But I'm done feeding a troll like you. Arguing with Terran fanboys is similar arguing with someone who still believes Earth is flat. But feel free and carry on with the rest of your crew.

It's a bad thing to brag about one's own skill so i will do it for luolis, he is about gm level and was available to vote for in the recent nation wars polls for finland. You on the other hand are a new account with 18 posts. I wonder who we'll give more credence based on these informations in general :O

Many EU Terran shamelessly whine on their own streams against Protoss being broken, Inno usually whines about Terran being underpowered before steamrolling everyone(and we know Inno tends to win when Terran is in a good state, unlike Maru for example); playing at the highest level doesn't necessarily make people objective when it comes to balance.

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

You're also free to point out where i am wrong.

Actually you just proved my point more that most whiners such as yourself are Gold and has no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

But I'm done feeding a troll like you. Arguing with Terran fanboys is similar arguing with someone who still believes Earth is flat. But feel free and carry on with the rest of your crew.

It's a bad thing to brag about one's own skill so i will do it for luolis, he is about gm level and was available to vote for in the recent nation wars polls for finland. You on the other hand are a new account with 18 posts. I wonder who we'll give more credence based on these informations in general :O

Many EU Terran shamelessly whine on their own streams against Protoss being broken, Inno usually whines about Terran being underpowered before steamrolling everyone(and we know Inno tends to win when Terran is in a good state, unlike Maru for example); playing at the highest level doesn't necessarily make people objective when it comes to balance.

I haven't really even argued balance in this thread. I mostly find the notion that Terrans are not as "imaginative" as Protosses and Zergs laughable.

to be fair, he said terran players don't adapt/evolve compared to protoss and zerg players.

And I'm inclined to agree.

Look at 2019 for example. Protoss and zerg were met with massive nerfs.

Protoss lategame was obliterated (carriers turned to garbage with the loss of graviton catapult, Tempests were temporarily when they exchanged durability for speed, but then nerfed into the ground when they lost most of the speed buff while still losing all that durability, and feedback was nerfed in half).

Zerg early and mid-game was decimated by the new creep dynamic (creep used to advance and recede at the same rate, now it recession rate is higher) and the transfuse nerf

Protoss pros developed insanely sharp timings to end the game before lategame.

Zerg pros developed a defensive "turtle" style that led to the feared broodlord + infestor compositions that have become very common compared to pre-creep/queen nerfs.

This is all thanks to the NERFS the races received.

Terran has received nothing but buffs but we have guys like innovation and maru standing there after winning more premier tournaments, talking about how the race is weak and underpowered.

Of course Terran play evolves to some extent. He was talking about relative to Protoss and Zerg though.

Gumiho is the closest to a Terran pro that pushes the boundaries in terms of innovation. Maru is up there too of course, but when you compare him to stats or dark for example, the dynamism isnt on the same level.

Thank you, finally someone who can understand.

I never said terran players were garbage. They just never adapt/evolve their playstyle.

E.G. In HOTS Toss/zergs were forced to learn and improve their splitting due to Mines (One of the most cancer unit in HOTS)

It’s hard to adapt or inovate when any build that strays to far from the norm is nerfed into the ground. Consider the following list of nerfs Terran got as they came up with new builds:

BC rush, yamotoe cannon nerfed tuning the build fown to the point it’s rarely seen at a professional level any more.

Compare this to zerg who have had only one playstyle killing nerf recently: ultra armor nerfed, and one nerf that weekend but did not kill a style, hydra upgrade split.

Why don’t terran’s inovate much, because whenever they do the style gets nerfed so hard that it’s killed off entirely. I can’t think of any nerfs outside ultra that have so radically destroyed a race’s entire game plan in an existing meta. Name a time recently that Zerg had a unit core to one of thier stratagies completely reworked? Name a time recently that Zerg has one of thier infinite value late game spells removed from the game?

If we go back even farther look at all the crazy nerfs in wings:

Terran invents 5 rax reaper, nerfed after heavy use in mlg.

MVP innovates ghost snipe late game nerfed into the ground after one tournament leading into years of bl infestor dominated games.

Edit: this is probably the whinyist post I’ve ever written but seriously it’s so hypocritical to complain about a lack of inovation in Terran builds when anything that strays to far from the norm is nerfed not just into line but out of the game.

Funny how you only list all the terran builds that were nerfed, but not mention any of the toss/zerg builds that were nerf to the ground. Want me to list all the zerg/toss builds that were nerfed to the ground cause of the terran whine community?

Instead of complaining about it, Zerg/toss still found new builds and playstyle.

Like i said, Terran has no excuses not adapting and learning how to flank with ghost from different angles.

Parting was the first to show how powerful it was back in WOL daysZergs kinda figuring it out how to flank with infestor from behind. (against Hellion cyclone style)Yet Terran still bunch ghost with it's bio ball and emp from the front.

Terran whine community xD

I mean come on man your comments read like parody.

Similar to all your comments in this thread though.

Not sure if you were trolling or being serious, either way I did get a few chuckle from your posts lol.

Everytime I need a small laugh, I just need to read some terran fanboy post =)

I mean reading your comments kind of makes it obvious that you don't really know how starcraft 2 works on a fundamental level, which is why your ideas are kind of laughable. Combine that with an ego bigger than the sun and no self awareness and we have a nice cocktail. :D

You're also free to point out where i am wrong.

Actually you just proved my point more that most whiners such as yourself are Gold and has no knowledge of the game whatsoever.

But I'm done feeding a troll like you. Arguing with Terran fanboys is similar arguing with someone who still believes Earth is flat. But feel free and carry on with the rest of your crew.

It's a bad thing to brag about one's own skill so i will do it for luolis, he is about gm level and was available to vote for in the recent nation wars polls for finland. You on the other hand are a new account with 18 posts. I wonder who we'll give more credence based on these informations in general :O

Many EU Terran shamelessly whine on their own streams against Protoss being broken, Inno usually whines about Terran being underpowered before steamrolling everyone(and we know Inno tends to win when Terran is in a good state, unlike Maru for example); playing at the highest level doesn't necessarily make people objective when it comes to balance.

I never said it would, but that poster made some dumb statements about it being clear proof that luolis is a gold league player which is so easy to disprove that i had to go for it. In the end arguments matter, but it's pretty hard to really argue objectively about sc2 strats, it oftentimes comes down to experiences more than anything.

BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | Rosé | IU | Yuna Kim | SoHyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Laugh, and the world laughs with you; Weep, and you weep alone

Ghost flanks might work, but i'm spectical again about how much APM it requires and atleast vs Z they feel pretty impractical considering how many ghosts you need for the flank to actually get the energy off of the infestors.

If anything I feel it’s the other way around, least I find it easier to babysit a Prism than staggered Templars, especially when trying to time a storm. I think partly that’s because you’re pre-actively planning a move vs reacting quickly to your opponent showing up in the right spot.

I was testing it a bit earlier, seems doable.

On the other hand in how it fits into the flow of a game, Hm. The only scenario I feel you’d ever want to sac medivacs and EMP drop is as a Hail Mary to try and nail all the Infestor energy in a TvZ.

Even assuming you can get the timing down, scan, find a corridor to boost through, drop and nail your EMPs, compositionally it’s going to be very awkward. I mean presumably a game scenario where you both have ghosts and medivacs and can spare them for such a move you probably have an edge anyway to win with a more conventional engagement.

Yeah my point about it is basically that controlling it would probably be less worth than just fighting conventionally. You still need to control your bio and if your APM is being spent on controlling a medivac dropping ghosts and then EMPing i think it's way too much focus on something that doesn't matter if your main army melts at the same time.

One problem for TvP for that is also that if protoss splits the HTs or has them in the prism, dropping ghosts from medivacs is kinda pointless because the main targets are unavailable to be hit.

The way Terran works, atleast with bio, is almost always the way that it's better to take a conventional engagement than micro one or two units in a different spot, because you almost have to babysit your main army.

But the whole discussion is kinda pointless. HeroMarine(I believe) did a ghost flank few days ago.

There were ghost flanks in the PvT before, that's why Templars are nowadays in the prism, ghosts were too dangerous.

It's just not present nowadays that much, which isn't that surprising considering many players stop using ghosts and before that it was mostly for the snipe.

I was specifically talking about medivac drop + ghosts in this post.

On a plus point if someone does do a ghost suicide medivac drop into EMPing all a Zerg’s Infestors to turn the tide one of those lategame stalemates it will be absolutely fucking sick

Ghost flanks might work, but i'm spectical again about how much APM it requires and atleast vs Z they feel pretty impractical considering how many ghosts you need for the flank to actually get the energy off of the infestors.

If anything I feel it’s the other way around, least I find it easier to babysit a Prism than staggered Templars, especially when trying to time a storm. I think partly that’s because you’re pre-actively planning a move vs reacting quickly to your opponent showing up in the right spot.

I was testing it a bit earlier, seems doable.

On the other hand in how it fits into the flow of a game, Hm. The only scenario I feel you’d ever want to sac medivacs and EMP drop is as a Hail Mary to try and nail all the Infestor energy in a TvZ.

Even assuming you can get the timing down, scan, find a corridor to boost through, drop and nail your EMPs, compositionally it’s going to be very awkward. I mean presumably a game scenario where you both have ghosts and medivacs and can spare them for such a move you probably have an edge anyway to win with a more conventional engagement.

Yeah my point about it is basically that controlling it would probably be less worth than just fighting conventionally. You still need to control your bio and if your APM is being spent on controlling a medivac dropping ghosts and then EMPing i think it's way too much focus on something that doesn't matter if your main army melts at the same time.

One problem for TvP for that is also that if protoss splits the HTs or has them in the prism, dropping ghosts from medivacs is kinda pointless because the main targets are unavailable to be hit.

The way Terran works, atleast with bio, is almost always the way that it's better to take a conventional engagement than micro one or two units in a different spot, because you almost have to babysit your main army.

But the whole discussion is kinda pointless. HeroMarine(I believe) did a ghost flank few days ago.

There were ghost flanks in the PvT before, that's why Templars are nowadays in the prism, ghosts were too dangerous.

It's just not present nowadays that much, which isn't that surprising considering many players stop using ghosts and before that it was mostly for the snipe.

I was specifically talking about medivac drop + ghosts in this post.

On a plus point if someone does do a ghost suicide medivac drop into EMPing all a Zerg’s Infestors to turn the tide one of those lategame stalemates it will be absolutely fucking sick

Yeah it would, but i think it requires more than 4 emps to disable all infestors anyway

Thor + Ghosts will never work to well, because you need 3-3 bio 3-3 mech + 3(-3) air for lategame, while zerg needs 3 melee + 3-3 air. So it is like 15 upgrades on terran side and 9 on zerg and I dont count the unit/spell upgrades, because I dont know how many zerg needs, but I think terran needs more.

On September 12 2019 02:44 Na1d wrote:Thor + Ghosts will never work to well, because you need 3-3 bio 3-3 mech + 3(-3) air for lategame, while zerg needs 3 melee + 3-3 air. So it is like 15 upgrades on terran side and 9 on zerg and I dont count the unit/spell upgrades, because I dont know how many zerg needs, but I think terran needs more.

You definitely dont need 3 3 bio to use ghosts with thor..you have them for their spells which upgrades are completely irrelevant to.