When Max Effort Meets Lack of Effort….

Posted in Uncategorized by Flavor on May 14, 2014

It was only a few threads ago that I asked “Is Buster Posey Afraid to Play Catcher?” It was a harsh title. But watching him jump out of the way of an onrushing Starling Marte I felt it was a normal question to ask.

Somehow, last night’s play at the plate was worse.

Last night was about one thing: lack of effort. Put simply, Jason Heyward tried harder than Buster Posey. That half-assed tag was like a runner failing to hustle to first base. It was like a runner failing to MAKE IT to first base and just peeling off the base line and heading back to the dugout.

After the game, Posey said, “You don’t expect a big guy to be able to move like he did.”

I reject this excuse. Posey has been playing Heyward in baseball since Little League. If anyone knows how athletic Heyward is, it’s Posey.

Another comment: “I thought I was in the right position. You don’t have time to think it happens so fast.”

I summarily reject this claim as well. Maybe he didn’t have time to *think* during the Marte play. That was bang-bang. But when Posey received the ball last night he had time to whip out a pair of binoculars and gingerly focus them on the distant, yet oncoming, Heyward. He had all day to *think*. As Heyward approached, he could have thought about a lot of things. And what he *thought* was that Heyward was just going to give up and run into the tag. Whoops. Heyward kept trying. Buster is the one who quit.

If you want to be a catcher you are going to have to engage in contact from time to time. You might even have to invite it. It’s part of the job. Whether Posey quit on the play (as he did last night) or whether he is now instinctive jumping out of the way (as he did last week) it is simply unacceptable behavior for a major league catcher.

I don’t think Posey will ever play aggressively. But he certainly can be expected to play assertively. He gets paid the most. He is a leader. And he can’t keep playing catcher like this…..

109 Responses

25 yrs ago playing softball I used to try the Heyward move on close play at the plate. go in head first dive, angle body away from the C and grab the edge of plate with left hand. Force the C to bend all the way down to tag your hand, only part of your body he can get to. Usually worked too.
Second time I saw the replay I counted Heyward taking 3 full strides from when Posey had Pence throw and ball in his glove. Plenty of time to get in front and tag him out. Instead the only touch he tried to make was on his back as Heyward went around him to score.
I think he just misjudged where Heyward was going and allowed him to get around him and hit the plate. But ball was there in plenty of time and you gotta make that play by any means necessary.

It was a weak play. Posey certainly needs to put more effort into applying a tag in that situation, and in similar situations. The flip-side is, as you mentioned Craig, he is the highest paid player on the club. He’s the franchise, and you protect your interests. It is a fine line (being agressive on those plays at the plate vs. ensuring you do not get hurt), and I think a much more fine line than that you portray. It very well could have been a misjudgement. We don’t know. We will never know. I know one thing, while I would like to see a bit more effort on applying a tag in that situation, no way in hell I want the guy blocking the plate. He is too big a piece of this club to lose over one run.

It was a bad play and he deserves to catch shit for it. Do I think it was absolutely awful and we should start calling him a pussy and lobbying for a position move? Absolutely not. Maybe he is shying away from contact a bit and I have no problem with that whatsoever. I don’t care if Buster went to kindergarten with Heyward. Heyward’s a big ass dude and I don’t blame him for avoiding a collision with him in the 40th game of the season. Buster IS kind of a key player for us. I’m in no hurry to relive the Whiteside/Chris Stewart nightmare. I know we have Hector now and I’m as high on Hector as anyone, but I have serious concerns about him catching the majority of our games. His asset is his bat, not his glove.
Buster made a shitty play. Go ahead and call him out on it. But lets not turn this into some big issue that must be addressed.

I disagree. If it happens again in 10 games, so be it. It is NOT worth losing your all star catcher…the face of your franchise over a play at the plate. Buster is playing plays at the plate predominantly because he has been instructed to do so by management.

I agree with San. He deserves to be called out on it, and then time to move on. I’m done with this one. It really is not a major as far as I am concerned.

Charlie – I don’t think he is “gun shy.” I think he is basically playing the game the way management has asked, and in the case of last night, he made a misjudgement on the tag. For as infrequently as a tag is missed at the plate, I don’t see it becoming an issue. People are making a non-issue, and issue, IMO.

I’m with James…not going to try to find stats on this (and not sure they exist), but I doubt Posey’s numbers on tagging runners (or not) is that much different than the league mean.

Well said, guys, and I’d second what Zum said at end of thread last night too. I think Posey just thought he had an easier play than he did and got faked out. Taking a guy like Heyward on head up I don’t agree with and I doubt Bochy would either. Giants never scored all night so they weren’t winning anyway.

Which brings me to Morse. He’s hit the skids in May, batting .163 (7 for 43). Miller said coming in he was 2 for his last 24 and he had an 0-4 last night. No XBH since the 11-10 game vs. Pirates when he had 2 doubles. Thought last one was a hit up the middle but Braves had overshift on and 2b was positioned perfectly.
No Pagan today, so Blanco (who did have a double last night) likely in the LU somewhere. Should be very warm day, hopefully big guns leave the yard a few times for SF, and Bum holds them down.

Why is everyone seemingly sold on Hector as a starting player based on his offense? I’ll be pleasantly surprised if “Finesse Hitter” Sanchez continues to better his numbers. He’s K’ing in 35% of his PAs and he doesn’t draw walks. Through yesterday, he’s played just as he has over his career. We’ve seen previous stretches where he’s hit the ball hard. He’s been lucky to hit well with runners on through 69 PAs, plus he’s had a ton of runners on base to drive in.

I’d rather see more of Colvin than Hector, at least based on the history.

Agree, James. Hector is what he is…a backup catcher. Better than Whitey or Stew, but not ready for prime time by any stretch of the imagination. His upside is he can put a charge in the ball, on occasion, and he is a switch-hitter.

I’ve been wondering this same thing and caught that “finesse hitter” line last night too. Maybe he picks it up with more playing time but at the moment the dude is putting up .254/.275/.413/.688 and still lacking behind the dish. He’s gotten some key hits so there’s that.

I’m not going to try to look up or figure out the ratio of safe to out tag plays at the plate with Buster there. I’d still be willing to bet money that his 2014 % isn’t very different from other catchers.

I caught Krukow’s take on KNBR this morning. Usually I don’t really care for that segment because, to me, it comes across to me as his homerism thought out overnight but I agreed with him this morning. Posey missed the tag. It was the key play of the game. He felt terrible about it. I know, I know feelings are for pussies but shit happens. He missed the play. He’s made some other terrific plays. This obviously wasn’t one of them.

Key play of the game? That’s a stretch IMO. Vogelsong even said that it was simply a missed tag, and that it was upon him to make pitches and get the team out of the jam, and in that regard, he said he failed.

If Posey made that play it would have been two out with a runner on second and no run scored. Instead it was one out with a run scored and another in scoring position. Instead of possibly getting another out and escaping the inning without giving up any runs, Vogelsong went on to give up two more runs and ended up with his highest pitch count of any inning in that inning and didn’t come out for the 7th. I think it was a key moment where the game was basically put out of reach. Hardly a stretch.

Hector pulls that play at the plate last night, he gets skewered from here to next week for his bad defense. Posey does it, and everybody looks for reasons why it happened. It happened because he got hurt at the plate 2+ years ago, that’s why it happened…

I mentioned this in the last thread but where does Hayward cross outside the baseline? he sure looked outside it to me. doesn’t 100% excuse buster, who i’m willing to give a hayward (pass 🙂 to, but seriously, this guy came from the on-deck circle. How much of the field is he expected to guard against?

Count the number of runs Posey allows. Count the number of runs Posey accounts for. Oh that’s right. You can’t count that high… I’d rather him miss the tag then miss the season or a career. enuff already

You guys are acting like Heyward came into the plate like a human missile or something. Buster was in no freaking danger last night, lol. He simply failed, for some unknown reason, to tag a guy who was basically standing right in front on him.

I have not made this type of analogy. I stated he missed the damned tag, and it very well could have been (probably was) a misjudgement. I think this is being made into something bigger than it is. Whoop-ti-fucky-do…he missed a tag. The dude is still one of the best in the game. Shit happens. Next…

Well, that’s the problem I had with the play. Heyward was basically giving himself up. He didn’t try to do much to avoid the tag. Posey alligator-armed the tag and missed.

I’m not saying he’s gunshy forever, but if this becomes the trend, then he should start taking balls at 3rd base. HE says he wants to remain a catcher. Well, if so, he’s going to have to put forth better efforts than that.

Maybe this was just a play that he missed. No harm, no foul. But based on the last few plays at the plate, he certainly appears gunshy regarding contact. Marte was coming headfirst, for God’s sake. Posey wasn’t going to get blasted. He just had to put his mitt down. He didn’t and the run scored.

Yeah, until he has a physical play at the plate and comes through it without issues he’ll probably continue to be gun shy. Remember the play at 1b earlier in the year after Posey bunted and was sort of horse collared? Wasn’t that Freeman? Posey has had a some weird things happen on the base paths.

Okay time to lighten the mood around here and have some fun. June 8 is Hello Kitty Day. How many of you who have daughters or wives, are going to this game to get your daughter/wife one?? Yes, yes, I am going.

I did not see “the play” live, only on replays. But yeah, it was pretty bad. No way to defend Posey on this one, no matter how “creative,” as Bochy put it, Heyward ad-libbed his slide. And while it was by far the most egregious mistake of the game, it was a terribly flat night overall for the Giants, who wasted runners on 2nd at various points and let in the final run on yet another fielding gaffe by a pitcher. But Posey’s not being moved from the catcher spot anytime soon, so maybe this latest incident will prod Posey to the realization that he can’t continue to be so embarrassingly passive on plays at the plate.

Cannot get audio to go here from work (damned firewall issue) so following on Gameday (sucks balls). Love to see Blanco pushing it with the stolen bases and scoring on the throwing error. And great to see Pence with the big fly. Dude was WAY OVER DUE.

I haven’t looked the other comments, but this is my take on the missed tag:
This is not about “he just missed the tag” nor is it about “creative” slides. I do not buy that it’s about Buster needing to “man up”, either. And it’s not about the new rule. It’s the club directive. Buster was setting up way too far from the plate last year and even more so this year. Last night setting up wasn’t the problem but the directive was. The club has gone too far in what essentially tells the catchers to avoid contact at any price. Buster wasn’t victimized by Heywood’s slide. It’s simple-he was trying to make the tag while avoiding any significant contact with the runner. A lot was made about his non-reaction to the safe call. IMO, he was just flat out embarrassed.

Added notes: I was very down on Posey on these type of plays. I changed my mind when I thought it became clear that it was team policy. They even encourage and coach the swipe tag to keep the catchers away from contact. I do think that Buster was a little gun shy but I think that he thought he could make the tag easily because the throw beat Heywood by10 feet.

agree about the *embarrassed* call. And I don’t know what stammering around and yelling would have done. If you do that AFTER the call it doesn’t matter. They still just go to replay. Stammering and stomping around doesn’t do shit anymore. In fact, it never did anything…….

About the non-tag (beaten to death already), I know James was kidding yesterday when he joked about what, no props to Heyward?, but I do tip my hat to Heyward for giving it everything he had in a dead duck situation. If Pagan had done that to an opposing team, we would be singing his praises, what a stud, etc. No question Buster was completely out-played on that one and yes, he definitely was completely embarrassed by it. Team directive or not, I’m guessing he won’t ever look that foolish again.

I don’t understand the fawning over Steve Kerr . . . If he had gone to the Knicks, he would have implemented the “Triangle” offense, as Phil Jackson was his mentor/teacher. Does that mean he is going to have the Warriors utilize it? I have no idea, but I hope not.

However, I digress . . . This guy gets a 4 year $25 million dollar contract as a 1st time coach? HAHAHA . . . I understand now why the Knicks initially resisted – for a couple of weeks – giving him that 4th year. Just my take, but I would have taken George Karl, as I saw him coach in Denver and he was outstanding. More important, he didn’t take any guff from the lunatics in the asylum (players and GM), including Carmelo Anthony. Consequently, the owner and GM fired him. Pfffftttt!

Karl is associated with an uptempo style of play that relies on pressure defense to force turnovers and quick shots by opponents to allow his teams to get out and run. In truth, it was only his Denver teams that consistently played at a high pace. Prior to that, he had teams all over the map in terms of pace, though he’s never coached an excessively slow team. His Seattle teams varied from middle of the pack to high paced, and his Milwaukee teams were (by necessity) not particularly fast. In Denver, with the altitude, he ran a fast paced team every year.

Karl has won with a variety of different kinds of teams–ferocious defensive teams in Seattle, perimeter offensive squads in Milwaukee, running teams in Denver. He’s won with a big scoring star (Carmelo Anthony) and with a more balanced approach. His teams have consistently forced a lot of opponent turnovers–his Seattle and Denver teams in particular, though even with a more defensively challenged roster in Milwaukee he had some good turnover teams.

Offensively, his style has varied based on his personnel, but it seems like he understood the value of the three pointer and free throws fairly early on. Some of his Seattle teams were at or near the top in both 3PA and FTA. He didn’t have free throw drawers in Milwaukee, but increased their reliance on the three pointer throughout his tenure there. In Denver, his teams regularly led the league in FTAs, and most years were at least in the top half of the league in 3PA. In short, I think Curry and all of our long range bombers would have loved him. I am not certain about this, but I think he has the inside track on the Timberwolves coaching gig.

In Kerr’s defense, he has played for some excellent coaches – the aforementioned Jackson and Pops in San Antonio. Maybe he has channeled some of their smarts (albeit, I am of the opinion, that Jackson ALWAYS entered a situation where the hard coaching and transition to being a good team had already been made by the previous coach . . . If you want the baseball equivalent, see Joe Torre, who got all the credit; even though Showalter did all the work and got fired for his effort).

Great day at the yard today. The weather was unusually warm for San Francisco, quite nice, and the yard played small. I was rockin’ the Flapper shirt. I am 2-0 now when wearing the shirt at games. 🙂
It was great getting to meet up with Snarkk and Blade for a couple of innings. Two awesome dudes; Flappers are exceptionally cool folks.
On the drive home, my wife and I listened to Wilco’s album “Sky Blue Sky,” and then to the Marlins beating up on the Dodgers on a radio broadcast via iPhone MLB app, plugged into the car stereo. Terrific day of baseball all around!

A local Jersey guy, Anthony DeSclafani, from Freehold (home of the Boss) out of Colts Neck HS, got the call-up today from the Marlins to start against the Bums in what would’ve been Jose Fernandez’s spot. DeSclafani left after the 6th with a 13-2 lead. I like his chances for his first big-league W.

To think I was going to leave it at my mom’s house. Glad I brought it along. That was funny when the Masked Mexican Crusader (I’m serious – this shit is too far out there to make up) asked to be photographed with me. We should have been thinking quicker snarkk and took our own shots of him and I. That was one weird hombre, eh?

Zum, ditto on what you said . . . It was a pleasure seeing you again. My phone is dead right now, but tomorrow I will send the group photo of us to Flavor. 🙂