INFO ON EVANGELION 3.33 INCLUDING DVD/BD RLS

Main points:

The Japanese rip is out now with english subs. Most people seem to prefer the UTW subs.

The dub was in some US theaters in February 2014. The English language DVD / BR release has been delayed on a number of occasions, apparently because of translation issues. Last we heard, Funimation were redoing the dub in places, and are aiming for a late 2015/early 2016 release window. Manga Entertainment canceled the UK / PAL release for now.

Questions about 3.33 in general? The evageeks wiki page on the movie is very useful indeed

Welcome

The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth. Welcome to the Neon Genesis Evangelion subreddit. Feel free to post anything Evangelion related, including philosophical questions raised by the show.

Should I read Sadamoto's manga?
It's very similar to the anime, but has some scenes left out and some new scenes. There's more backstory to it and more focus on Rei than in the series. The final issue was published in June 2013.

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I'm not sure if this plays into the spoiler policy, so mods, feel free to delete this thread if need be.

On that note, as I'm sure just about everyone and their mother is aware, the 3.33 rips are out and a number of English dubs are up an running. I know some of you have already seen the cams/read plot outlines for the movie, but there are also those (myself included) who have just finished watching for the first time and probably have a lot of questions and theories they would like to discuss. So I figured we could save the mods the hassle of deleting every spoiler post and just localize all discussion about the film to one thread that can be easily avoided by those who wish to retain their Evarginity until some future time. Cool? Cool.

It's Jesus symbolism. The collar is representative of Shinji's sin (said directly in the movie by someone, forgot who) and by putting it on Kaworu is taking on Shinji's sin. He did say he was the first angel before he died, since he is Adam, at least in the original series. As for why he likes Shinji so much, no clue. It's implied that the manga, series, and rebuild are all in the same universe, just take place after each respective instrumentality. Kaworu remembers his experiences despite this and I guess he just grows really fond of Shinji over time.

Misato still has feelings for Shinji. He was basically one of her good friends before everything happened.

Asuka is contaminated by the angel Bardiel, which happened in 2.22 during the Unit 03 activation test. Going berserk brings you deeper into the Eva's core, which I suppose the contamination reacts to. This also explains her super-strength.

Never said. Some people think that he's the guy in the purple flight suit on Wunder, but personally I think he's at the human camp Asuka mentions at the end of the movie. Either way he's most likely still alive since one of the new bridge bunnies talks fondly of him in present tense.

The corpse was Lilith, though I don't know why it has Yui's head now. The skulls I'm guessing are remnants of the eva-like creatures that are shown hanging onto Lilith.

It's the head of Lilith, and since it looks like Yui now Gendo has a thing for it.

Because they're sexy.

Kaworu implies that it can if you have the two different spears, Longinus and Cassius. These belong to Lilith and Adam respectively. Lilith and Adam, at least in the original series, are splits of the the First Ancestral Race's life technology. Combining them makes you a god for whatever reason, hence the ability to remake the world. Gendo's plan is unclear, but assuming it's the same as the original series it's just to get back with Yui cause he's creepy.

Damn, you answered that so much more elegantly than the half-baked response I was coming up with.

Just curious, where have you heard the theory that the manga, series, and rebuild are in the same universe? I've always sort of viewed them as alternate universes with each one being just as canonical as the others and taking place at the same time just within separate timelines.

The series post-instrumentality and Rebuild share numerous scenes that imply that Rebuild takes place post-instrumentality. There's the blood streak on the moon, the LCL filled oceans, the MP Evangelion outlines dotting the landscape... plus Kaworu, after he impales awakened Unit 01 in 2.22, mentions that he will make Shinji happy this time. Here's an image with that stuff on it. There's a newer version somewhere but I can't find it.

As for the manga, it would just make sense. It's also supported by a few scenes in the manga such as when Kyoko tells Asuka that she must be better than 'that' woman's daughter. The daughter in question looks quite a bit like Mari.

The sequel theory is only a theory. I don't subscribe to it and while it's commonly mentioned in this fandom, I don't feel it really holds up. For me, these are just different continuations, different retellings.

Right. I'm apprehensive to draw any conclusions before any sort of conclusion, however I hadn't noticed the parallels before. It's an interesting perspective I hadn't thought of before. Even if it's just a crazy theory, that's one more thing I love about Eva... Now I'm more eager than ever to see 4.0

Interesting, I'm not sure if that's common knowledge for most of the fanbase or not but that actually makes a lot of sense... Kind of depressing when you think about it knowing the cycle never really ends, but hey, that's Eva.

No problem. And yeah, honestly while the basic plot points of Eva can be understood without looking at the extended information none of the stuff really makes sense until you do. I think that's overall a weakness of the series. Most of the important information comes from things like the video games, and who honestly plays those?

That doesn't look super moon-ish to me, but it seems to fit with the whole F.A.R.-seeding story. Are you sure that's what it is? I thought it might be some sort of cap to the area containing the black moon.

This feels spot on. I also feel like Kaji might be in the Lilin camp. He's made reference to in the Wunder cockpit sequence by the big bald guy, which makes me think he didn't get Third Impact-ed in 2.0/tang'ed by Rei if this is an EoE continuation.

First off: I read summaries and reviews of the film when it was first theatrically released in Japan, but I haven't actually seen the camrip. Thus, I'd say I was probably mentally prepared for the dramatic change in plot and tone from 2.0, but I really hadn't seen or heard much besides a few stills and the soundtrack.

Also, this goes for the entire thread but SPOILERS BELOW

I gotta say, I really enjoyed it. As Chaka said, it did, at times, feel less polished than the other two in terms of visuals and music, but about 3/4s of the way through (as they were descending into Central Dogma), I was hit with the feeling that I was watching a vamped-up, intensified version of Episode 24, which is what 3.0 is supposed to be. Honestly, when looked at that way, a lot of it makes plot-based/in-universe sense. The disjointed storytelling, the chaotic and overwhelming visuals, the dark, angry music, and Shinji's feelings of guilt, desperation, and confusion are all perfectly in-line with the last few episodes (right before eps 25 and 26/EoE, which I'm guessing will be 4.0). All it needed as a ten-minute segment of Ode to Joy, and it would have been perfect (I kid...but seriously, Sagisu, more Ode to Joy next time).

I love the fact that the series is back to being depressing and fucked up. 2.0 was great, and it was badass, but one of the things that made the original series so compelling and emotionally interesting was the steady descent into depression, hatred, and confusion, which was then "resolved" in the LCL world of EoE (or the stage world of eps 25/26) when Shinji found the motivation to live life for himself.

Again, I think the major argument against this film is that it did feel very rough, and much of the enjoyable subtleties of characterization of 1.0 and 2.0 were tossed in favor of more dramatic visualizations. Another big complaint on my part is that I wish we had seen more of bitchy!Misato and the rest of the Wunder crew. I really wish Anno had honed in on that undue anger they felt towards Shinji and had more clearly driven him back to Nerv and Gendo. Anno - I love seeing depressed!Shinji and semi-flirtatious!Kaworu, but I'd also like to see more of the other characters.

Based on the original series and now this, the formula seems to be: establish world, present potential for happiness, everything gets fucked up and depressing (successfully pissing off a large portion of the fanbase), then finally end with a bang by shoving all the worst parts of humanity in your face yet leaving you feeling better in the long run.

Honestly, I cannot wait for 4.0, it's pretty clear that Shinji has retreated into his own mind (a la ep 25-26) by now and I'm eager to see how EoE plays into Rebuild.

Yeah Mari has never seemed to have much of a purpose outside of fanservice and having her as a stand-in during that battle in 2.22. She MUST have some kind of greater purpose to the story though and I feel like we'll see that play out in 4.0

Hmm...I do believe that the Rebuilds are a sequel, rather than a pure retelling, but Anno himself has stated that the entirety of the series is about people who continually get stuck in the same horrible situations over and over again, yet struggle to inch forward however they can.

So, yes, it's not a perfect retelling of Ep 24, and I don't think it was meant to be that. Rather, it was supposed to recall and invoke all the emotions that episodes 20 - 24 originally caused in people. In that regards, it did what it was supposed to. It made people angry, upset, depressed, and very, very confused. People were mad at Anno for "changing the directions of the Rebuilds," but personally, I think a lot of the fandom played directly into his hands.

Feel like they scratched my Ode to Joy itch pretty well, to be honest. They used it in such a manner that they evoked exactly what they needed to evoke with it, similarly to how they used Thanatos in 2.0.

Oh, no, they had a fantastic rendition of Ode to Joy, but I was kinda surprised by the placement. It was perfectly placed, but I was definitely expecting it to happen when Kaworu died.

Then again, I love Ode to Joy, so I'm always okay with more. The soundtrack for 3.0 is good, probably my favorite yet for the Rebuilds, but what I really love are those "this song clearly doesn't fit with this scene - time for some cognitive dissonance" moments. Basically, the Rebuilds need more Ode to Joy, Hallelujah, and Komm Susser Todd scenes (although the "Please Give Me Wings" song during the Near Third Impact in 2.0 was perfect).

I've watched 3.33 three times since I located subs, and all I can bring myself to think about is how much the OST fucking rocks. Shiro Sagisu...holy shit. He can score my existential crisis/Judeo-Christian sci-fantasy opera any time.

I agree with most of your points, but I want to address a few specifically.

First off, the colors. This is an entirely different world resulting from the end of 2.0. It is bleak. It is barebones and depressing. I think the limited colors reflect that well. Furthermore, it stands in stark contrast to the previous two films. I think that makes it very effective.

Completely agree. What I really noticed was the dramatic change in visuals that, to me, implied a steady descent into Hell. Most of the vibrant, whimsical (if you could call them that) colors are a part of Wunder and its crew, even if they are all kinda pathetically angry at a 14-year-old boy who just woke up from a 14-year coma. The last vestiges of beauty are found among the humans fighting to keep the world alive - yet we grow increasing frustrated and confused by their actions and attitudes towards Shinji.

This is followed by the dramatic change in color schemes when Shinji arrives at the oblierated Nerv headquarters. The colors are now mostly blood/rust red, black, grey, and white. In fact, some of the only other colors we see are: the tree/vegetation by the piano, the sketchy art and the piano-playing sequence, and the sky during a few segments with Kaworu. Kaworu's friendship/love is one of the few remaining things coloring Shinji's world (and he even says that playing the piano with Kaworu was "one of the happiest things he's done in a long time"). In a way, it's kinda ironic, since Kaworu's (and Rei's) color schemes are red, grey, and white.

Finally, we get the dramatic "descent into Hell" during the descent into Central Dogma, and it's just brutally "barebones" as you put it. Hundreds, maybe thousands of skulls, the rotting corpses of Lilith and Mark06, the long pillar of bloody bodies...just intense. It doesn't help that Shinji/Eva 13 has to crawl through part of it to reach the spears. And then, of course, by the end, everything goes red, except for Eva 13 and the Door of Guf.

Another thing I liked is that it returned to wtf territory. Flying ships, copilot Evas, Gendo's basement (and choice of eyewear). I'm disappointed that the psychological aspects are less pronounced, but they're still there (poor, poor Shinji...).

I agree with the WTF territory, but I kinda disagree with the "less pronounced" psychological aspects. I think that, unfortunately, the time limits on the film prevent it from fully covering everything that happened in the second half of the original series with the same slow-spinning pace that NGE had. Instead, Anno and company opted to represent the psychological aspects almost entirely visually, and, in my opinion, it's brilliantly done. The shogi scene, the revelation of the Giant Rei/Yui head with the eyes rotted out, the disgusting rotting corpse of Lilith, the beautiful simplicity of Kaworu removed the collar and putting it on himself, Rei Q's tiny little "room" (which still had the apartment name plate, btw - great touch there) - it all did a very good job of representing episodes 20 - 24. It was basically a new version of these episodes, minus Rei II's death and Asuka's mind rape (which, let's admit, are pretty big parts of the last part of the series. Imagine how much better 3.0/3.33 would be if somehow these had been included). It also had all the "jittery-ness" and disarticulated feeling that begins to show up in these episodes, which, to me, explains why it felt so disconnected at times.

All in all, I really enjoyed it. I'm glad Evangelion is back to being depressing.

Of course! We should also keep in mind that, for the original series, Anno budgeted things poorly, so some scenes were just jaw-dropping in animation quality, audio, voice acting, writing, etc, and others were choppy and poor. So far, with the Rebuilds, it seems like he's paced himself pretty well (and I'm sure his budget is bigger, but, again, he's making 4 full-length high-quality animated movies, instead of a single animated TV series back in the early 90's). Both mediums have their pros and cons - for movies, one of the big cons is time constraints. It's not feasible or profitable to make 3.0 three hours to cram as many details in as possible (can you imagine all the new, Rebuilds-first fans sitting through a three-hour screening of Shinji crying and Kaworu playing the piano?).

Anyways, I'm glad to help. I'm really enjoying the discussion in this thread so far, and was glad to see someone who was initially upset by the film think it over and see some of the merits in it.

What if the start (1 and 2) of the rebuild movies were all a "dream/alternate reality" that Shinji experienced while he was in the coma caused by the instrumentality in the original serie? Could he be back in the world of the series and NOT in the world of the 2 prior movies? What if those 14 years of coma were lived as 14 years of living in a different world (or in his head) in the 1.0 and 2.0 movies?

... Or maybe the reverse, the 14 year coma might have been Shinji living his life in the original series and now that it ended he's back in the rebuild ...

After having watched 3.33 I'm not sure of anything anymore in the series and I don't really remember if the End of Evangelion movie ended in a way that works with this new crazy idea ...

Really, the piano scene just pissed me off. Probably because I used to play when I was far younger. Late edit: I would not describe myself as a musician by any stretch :P

They should have done a far better job of indicating that there was literally nothing to do at NERV except sit around and learn to play the piano (although it's heavily implied). Not show Shinji going from one finger tapping to duet playing in a matter of seconds.

It's funny that NERV is utterly destroyed - except for a few perfectly clean, spartan rooms they manage to find to house Shinji after his recapture and subsequently for him to sleep in. No dust rubble or blood in those, nope. The rest of the place? Trashed. That one hospital room or that one crew quarters? Not a speck of dust.

Who cleans the place? Where do they get their linens (other than reusing the shirts of former 15 year olds). How did they manage to build (birth?) a new Eva?

I don't mind a bit of mystery, but come the fuck on.

On the flip side everything up until Shinji goes to NERV was pretty much amazing, although every time I see the AAA Wunder battleship all I keep seeing is a VF-25 from Macross Frontier. To me, the beginning set the tone absolutely perfectly. They just didn't capitalize on it. The moment Shinji goes to NERV, the storytelling falls apart and nothing makes sense.

So Gendo and Fuyutuski arranged to kidnap Shinji so that Koaru would fall for him and take on the DSS choker. They lied about the spears so Shinji would pull them out to "lay the path for Eva-13's ascendance" and Koaru would be conveniently killed by the triggered choker. They pretend 4th Impact is actually happening so they can pull the plug on SELEE and get them out of the way altogether, knowing Koaru is going to pike out at the last minute and backtrack.

I mean, we've seen some pretty hardcore manipulation but this just beggars belief.

I didn't think how Shinji learned piano so quickly was too weird. It's basically like episode 9 in the TV show where Shinji and Asuka had to learn how to synchronize dancing in a short amount of time. Neither of them were very good at dancing, and the two of them clashed a lot so synchronizing must have been very difficult, but they managed to do it. Keeping this in mind, Shinji learning piano like this seems even more easier to believe. Kaworu already knew how to play very well, and unlike Asuka, he and Shinji got along right away. Shinji even practiced in his free time, unlike in ep 9 where he had to be encouraged.

There's been speculation on evageeks that it's actually Mari but I'm far more inclined to go with her mom. It can't be accidental (well, it could be trolling) but the glasses in particular mark her out as connected to Mari.

But as far as we know, her first time in an eva was at the start of 2.0 and she looks no older than Asuka then. She does have an odd desperate desire for LCL, though. Maybe she was introduced to that prior to being a pilot and it's that which activates this 'curse' thing (read: a way for Anno to take the story on fourteen years without losing teenage girls as merchandise potential).

I hope im not the only one who thinks this, but i really do think that Asuka is loads more tolerable than she's ever been in this rebuild. On one hand, I miss her equally as fucked up Shinji side, but I can only guess that Anno doesn't have the time to fully develop that within her. (Hence why even during 2.0 she seemed less than troubled by her mommy issues) I don't know, it bothers me on some scale, but then again, rebuild since its beginning has always felt a bit off and I guess I can't pass my final judgement until the final movie come out.

I hope im not the only one who thinks this, but i really do think that Asuka is loads more tolerable than she's ever been in this rebuild.

She's tolerable but feels less...present or important. In the original it felt like Asuka and Rei had similar levels of important, Rei more in plot and Asuka more in her similarity and reactions to Shinji. But in the Rebuilds she wasn't really central to Shinji so thus so she feels less important.

I liked the fact that Anno preserves some of the original traits of the characters we love/hate but yet added some twist to them so it does not make them feel the same old characters thus making them unpredictable to the old fans. This new rebuild keeps me guessing and anticipating for whats to come. Just like in 2.22 where Unit 3 comes in and Touji pull up a "Hazure" (Miss) for his ice cream stick (somewhat a subtle hint to whoever were guessing that he will be the pilot for unit 3 at the time).

I loved Asuka in the TV series, but I really disliked her in 2.0, so I agree that she's better in 3.0. In 2.0 they took away her issues (dolls, Kaji, etc.) and just put her in tons of fanservicey moments (both views of her in skimpy situations and things like competing with Rei for Shinji). In 3.0 she's really cool and I like her a lot! This isn't the Asuka I know from the TV series, but I enjoyed her a lot in this movie.

Wow is pretty much all I can say. I made a point to stay away from spoilers so I went into this completely blind. I remember reading awhile back that the story took place in the future and immediately backed out so that was all I knew going in.

The movie felt a lot more like the series than the previous two. Which is weird seeing as how none of the actual plot points are the same. It has that WTF mind rape quality that I loved about Eva that spawned months of crawling the Internet for info and discussion.

I'm kind of mixed on how I feel about the movie itself though. It is still settling in and I will probably have to watch it again once a better sub comes out (and then buy the English dubbed DVD and watch again) but while I loved the tone, I was kind of irritated at how they just don't explain WTF is going on.

For instance, when Shinji woke up on the ship. If they know that Shinji has been unconcious for 14 years and knows nothing why would they not explain what is going on ASAP so he doesn't make the wrong choices? It felt like we the viewer and Shinji the character were left in the dark for huge portions of the movie and it felt kind of artificial.

And I know that Shinji is supposed to be a study on bad decisions, guilt, and fucked up decisions but he was particularly dumb as fuck this movie. The goddamn angel sitting beside you tells you to chill and wait a minute and he goes right ahead and grabs the Lances. If this is really all in the same universe as the original series and End of Eva movie that makes like three times Shinji has caused an Impact. Really think that dude needs to train up to be a bridge bunny or something because he really isn't that good at preventing mass extinctions...

I think the entire point was that 14 year old children aren't prone to making good decisions. I mean, shit, he just found out that he wiped out almost ALL of Tokyo 3. For (as far as he knows) nothing. Then comes Kaworu, implanting in him a way to save everybody.

Both 2.0 and 3.0 were showing the (not) scenarios, that is to say, in 2.0, shinji did not advance, and in 3.0 he could not redo.

the previews however, were showing what would have happened in the future, in (not) universes. whereas 3.0 is in fact showing the result of not stopping 3rd impact, since the black moon and lilith are both out as it was in EoE. And this explains the inconsistency of shinji's memory since he was stopped in 2.0.

as for the character Kaworu's statement of bringing happiness to shinji in 2.0, and that they would meet again in 3.0. I speculate that his soul traveled back through the door of gulf in 3.0 after his death, if you watch closely you can see that when shinji get's ejected, a vision of Kaworu was also "ejected" just before the door closed.

once this soul returned to 2.0's universe, Kaworu wake up from the coffin, just like the cylons in battle star Galatia. And that, is why he had to die while the door is open. and that the door only closes right after his ejection.

Mari is in fact the girl in the picture Kozo showed shinji, the one on the bottom right corner, which explains all the senior attitude in her language towards the other characters as if she is indeed very old. She appears to be young but that could be because the curse of eva Askuka spoke of, since she did not age in 14 years, imo, it simply means that in syncing with the eva, they pilots either become parts of eva or obtains parts of the fruit of life, which delays aging process. Mari could got this from the first contact made by Yui Ikari, since if she is the person on the picture she is most likely present when that happened.

and that "only practice makes it better" hints that in the final film, shinji is probably gonna impact again, but in echo with EoE so that he will make the final decision to either fuck everyone up or fuck everyone up again.

I had a completely different reaction. This was definitely my favorite rebuild movie.
The characters were very good and showed progression. Shinji was himself. Kaworu was intriguing and had very strong dialogue given his character. Gendo and Fuyutsuki continued their path and reaffirmed the similar intentions in the original series. Asuka had two great scenes: punching the glass wall and trying to help Shinji in the end. Misato had great progression for the amount of time she was there. Her reaction and attitude towards Shinji are very similar to her original reaction to Kaji. Based upon a bad event, she tries to block the other out of her life and focuses on destroying her past. However, she wasn't in control of her feelings and thus unable to kill Shinji. Rei wasn't that great. I'll be honest. Mari's best parts were her relationship with Asuka, but she wasn't nearly as bad as in 2.0, so at least she had an improvement.
Not to mention the plot left many fewer questions about what happened than I expected. I liked presenting in between the third and fourth impact. I thought that learning everything in hindsight was a very good move.
Overall, a great addition to the series. Made me actually start enjoying Rebuild. And 4.0 should come out in the fall, so we should have a Blue Ray camrip in about a year!

Her reaction and attitude towards Shinji are very similar to her original reaction to Kaji.

I find her reaction more similar to that towards her dad. Here's what I posted a few months back:

"So she was a member of the Katsuragi Expedition, in which her father unknowingly initiated Second Impact and died while she is the sole survivor. She says that she hates him because of this, but strives to avenge his death by being at the forefront of the battle with the Angels as the Operations Director for NERV. Also, she went mute for a while after the incident, not talking to anyone.

Let's compare that to the current situation: she was present at Third Impact, this time initiated by Shinji, and is one of the survivors. She seems to hate Shinji for it, but can't kill him. She strives to take down the people responsible for it by leading WILL-E against NERV."

I'd read a bunch of spoilers so I knew what I was getting into. Even so, I never watched a cam rip so sitting down to it a lot of details had faded in my mind.

The retrieval of EVA-01 and Shinji's subsequent reintroduction to the world is incredibly well done. We see Shinji building on his character from 2.22. He's no longer running from his problems, reflecting the change of mind that leads him to fight Zeruel at the end of 2.22. When the Wunder comes under attack, even though Shinji is lost and confused, he still offers to pilot an Eva. That to me is growth of character and entirely consistent with the previous movies. I didn't have any of the issues with the crew that initial viewers had (probably because i'd been spoilered) and in fact everything about it oozed insights into the newness of the breakaway organization. The whole lead in was simply fantastic, although I haven't really taken a liking to Misato's new organization or shiny new battleship just yet. They're too new.

Where I feel the whole thing falls apart is when Shinji travels to NERV - which is everything after the first half hour, pretty much. His confusion goes from 10 on the scale to 11. Rei's reverted to a blank slate. Koaru is introduced. The piano scene is fantastically animated. But it's all rushed. It wasn't given enough time, and after some distressing revelations the audience watches a dual piloted eva - all very new and confusing - take a trip down to central dogma to retrieve two spears - something else new and confusing - for reasons that sound too good to be true. I understand that Shinji was distraught and bought into a pack of lies. But even so there's too much new, confusing, incongruent or just plain pointless shit that doesn't make sense and feels like it was introduced just because it was cool. Why even bother with a four armed Evangelion or a dual pilot system? Why prepare yet another Eva for "ascendance"? Gendo's talking to a decapitated Rei head, yet fourteen years ago he thought they were almost finished. What the fuck. This is all unexplained bullshit i'd expect to see tossed out in a fanfic. The confused, internally inconsistent changes detract from the story rather than enhance it.

I don't mind that Shinji bought it. I find it entirely believable that after the hit of a 14 year timeskip, the hit that the girl you thought you rescued never made it, the hit that your actions caused so much devastation... I find it fully consistent that he'd latch onto the one sympathetic person and buy fully into the purported path to redemption. I think the attachment came much too fast, but as a concept it's perfectly fine. I'm just not fine with the bullshit that was outright invented to make that particular story happen. It's like they envisioned the first twist (timeskip) and last twist (splat) and filled in the story as an afterthought.

.

Side note: the Wunder control room operates like an entry plug, making the entire ship seem like the creepy bastardization of an Angel. That's the final nail in a really interesting paradigm shift from the original Eva, and a common theme carried forward from EVA-05 in 2.22: in the Rebuild universe humans give no fucks bastardizing the hell out of these artificial life forms to make them do whatever they want. In the TV series it was a synthetic life form with armor plating that had attachments and things were "regrown" or "healed", there was an almost cooperative approach taken. TV series evas are very angry things under restraints that you handle with care, almost. In the Rebuild series they have no problem simply swapping out arms or legs for more convenient appendages, replacing whole bits of skull and brain and arms with plating/cannons, forcing synchronization, switching an EVA into berserk mode, and sacrificing it completely. It's a much more brutal, ruthless, dark view on Evangelions where they are just another tool to be used callously by humans to achieve their desired goals.

Side note #2: Suzuhara must be older than Shinji if Shinji was 14 in 2.22, as Suzuhara was probably in the upper single digits of age.

i loved the Wunder entry plug scene, but Wunder itself made me uncomfortable, maybe for the exact reasons you stated. Also the fact that it seems like the humans are overstepping their boundaries more and more, blurring the lines between simply fighting for survival and killing out of hatred. I really hope the next movie explains what Wunder is, why Wille said that Adam is its original master (I keep getting the image that it's Adam's pet, which I'm sure is not right)

I dunno if I would say it was invented anymore than the TV series was. Think back to when you first watched Eva, maybe at episode 16. Before that, NGE felt like a monster of the week show with some extra darkness and a more troubled main character. After that, main characters were being killed, sent away, suicidal, and weird things started happening in the character's minds. I could hardly tell what was real and what wasn't. And that's not even talking about the tripfest that was End of Evangelion! I watched NGE for the first time recently so the feelings I had are still fresh with me.

Things happened differently, but honestly, the feelings are the same. The level of surprise feels the same. NGE's old plot is not very surprising anymore, especially to people who watch a lot of anime. I think they might have wanted to recreate that feeling of shock and confusion that was in the TV series.

IMO a big issues going forward is caused by the time skip, which may or may not have been necessary.

The whole plot was basically centered around nobody telling shinji jack shit. Asuka and misato are upset with him for something that was a complete accident. Misato actually encouraged shinji in 2.0, but now she hates him because of the results? All they had to do was sit down and show half an ounce of compassion for him, but then we'd have no plot.

Im seeing way too many unanswered questions heading into 4.0. Some examples include:

Who the fuck is mari?

What happened to rei?

Where is Kaji?

What specifically transpired through the 14 year time skip?

What is asuka's beef with Shinji?

How do organizations that have giant biomechs and flying battle stations not have a competent psychologist on staff?

Where is the rest if the support staff for building all these Eva's for nerv?

This here is Problem Alpha One. I have no problem with the film posing honking great massive questions (so long as the answers come in the next one, or something fills in the gaps eventually) but really, can we have humans that act like humans? They leave him alive, bring him onto the bridge (with a bomb on his neck, smooth move security) and proceed to ignore him; it's only when he's about to leave they even tell him who they as a group are. That's the only thing I feel is actually impossible to understand here. The rest will come with time, but this...

Anyhow, as to your questions:

Who is Mari? Don't know yet. Someone important and probably related to Asuka, going by the photo.

What happened to Rei? As I see it: EITHER still in insubstantial form inside Unit 01 OR gone forever OR POSSIBLY inside the SDAT, but that seems epicly cheesy to me.

Where is Kaji? Don't know, probably dead. I missed him too.

What happened during the Timeskiplol? Presumably, Gendo was pissed off at the incompleteness of Third Impact and continued to try and make it happen his way again, including the reconfiguration of Unit 06 as an autonomous unit and sending it into Central Dogma, Lilith coming down from the cross (accidental/done by Gendo/done by Lilith?), taking off her head and dumping it in the command centre because [insert reason here, I challenge you] and whatever response the rest of the world had that resulted in a nice view of the stars from the Eva 1 cage and the avantgarde crater-themed redecoration of the entire geofront. One assumes that most of Nerv were less than impressed by this behaviour and left to form Wille along with whoever survived Thirdimpact Interruptus.

What's Asuka's problem? She thinks Shinji caused Thirdimpact Interruptus by not giving a flying shit about anything other than saving Rei. True dat. Also she might be a tad annoyed at what Unit 01 did to Unit 03/Bardiel/her eye.

Competent psychologist? That's an oxymoron.

Support staff for Eva construction? Don't know. Possibly it was made more autonomous as more Nerv people left?

Mari's comments? If there's no more angels, who knows what happens next?

I could come up with a theory that explains some of it - for example, placing 3.33 after an EoE-like scenario.

But it's pure fanwankery, it doesn't even come close to explaining it (why is Lilith's head so far from her body, why is EVA-06 where it is, etc), and quite frankly, we shouldn't have to make shit up to fill in the blank. After 3.33 I hold little hope of everything being magically explained in Final.

I'm not of a mind to excuse bad storytelling because I was suitably confused by it. The only way I see this actually getting explained is as a LCL dream (or Shinji-controlled instrumentality loop), and that would be so incredibly cheap.

OK, I'm not going to say I'm pleased by this film, it's still sinking in but my instant impression isn't particularly good. I think the storytelling is highly lacking too. Thing is, I also think that's a conscious decision - it would be cheap, quick and easy to add some scenes explaining this to Shinji/viewers but there aren't any. That's not an accident.

This leaves us with two possible scenarios:

1) We don't have to make shit up. There will be another film, and it has yet to explain itself properly.

2) the fourth film doesn't explain a damn thing and is even more far-out than this was, in which case we can assume the whole thing has gone to hell, all the comments by Anno about putting in Mari to destroy Eva and the rumours that he hates the fans can be taken as more true than not, and basically the entire Rebuild project was a waste of time/a marketing initiative.

It's entirely possible the fourth film will actually explain some of this - mostly, why two spears necessitating a four armed Eva, etc. N3I impact didn't require any spear at all, and was in fact stopped by one, so it doesn't make any sense why 4I would require two spears.

I actually don't see hate from Misato. I was expecting to see hate, but I didn't. What I saw was distrust (they aren't sure he even IS Shinji Ikari at first) and a clear commitment to not letting him pilot ever again.

If she hated him she'd have blown his head off. Mostly, they fear him and what he might do.

But otherwise, I pretty much agree with all your points. Tons of issues and questions raised, none of them answered because lol timeskip.

Another one is: how are people at the epicenter of N3I alive (Ritsuko, Misato, etc) yet.. when Shinji asks about the civillian population, all that Koaru says is "mass extinctions happen"?

What if 3.0 is actually Shinji's thoughts and experiences during instumentality? Like when the original series showed the dorky school anime drama version of Eva, what if this is the other end of the spectrum, and Shinji is still just on the geofront in Unit-01.

I dunno, Shinji's instrumentality would be mighty depressing then. I thought instrumentality was supposed to make everyone happy and understand each other, and take out all insecurities. Instead, Shinji knows absolutely nothing, is very ashamed of himself, and is upset for most of the movie.

So yeah, what did you guys think? Any ideas about where they could possibly go from here? Anybody who saw the cams notice differences? It seems like the general consensus is that it's almost exactly the same.

As for the my general opinion about the film, I liked it. I didn't find many issues with the plot nor did I think the character's acted stupidly, as is the common criticism on /a/. The art is great as always even with the glorious chins and cgi. I'm looking forward to 4.0.

Yeah I feel the same way, I heard a lot of criticism about it beforehand and I'll admit I was sort of prepared for the worst. Pleasantly surprised with how it turned out though.

Certain things plot-wise like Misato's extreme metamorphosis and the entire existence of Wunder felt a bit out of place, but I'm sure it was intended to feel like that. 14 years is a lot of time. Overall, I like this interpretation, it can sometimes seem like a bit of a "fuck you" to fans but Evangelion has always had this way of getting that much better whenever shit hits the fan.

Shinji caused the end of the world. It's because of him that most of the world died. You can't expect people to be all forgiving at that point, since people judge on actions, not intent when things are that extreme. It's not irrational anger at all.

Shinji was also at Wille for all of a few hours, at most. Once he wakes up Wille is attacked by the Nemesis series maybe 5 minutes later, and after that is dealt with they do start explaining things to him. Ritsuko's explanation clears up a lot, but not everything because of Rei Q's intervention.

After he reaches NERV Kaworu shows Shinji the outside world. It's at this point he should realize that what Wille said was actually true, hence he really should not pilot an eva. He does anyways and starts another impact because he ignores even Kaworu completely.

Shinji's actions are somewhat understandable so I wouldn't really call them stupid, but people certainly are right to be angry with him.

Well if I recall correctly, most of the Evas are basically clones of Lilith housed in an exoskeleton aren't they? But one of the Evas was actually made using Adam's DNA. So I'm guessing that "Adam's Vessel" means an Eva unit that is made from the DNA of Adam?

Edit: Oh sorry, it seems I had it the other way around, the Eva units were made using the genetic base of Adam, apart from Unit-01, which was made using Lilith.

First of all, I have to say that I appreciate the film quite a bit more now that I have seen a nice proper version of it. My biggest question is what the hell was the floating moon-like thing with blood and the EoE-like grid on it that we see when Kaworu shows Shinji how fucked up the world is? It isn't the Black Moon, that apparantly has a good bit of it cut out around the middle for some reason. It also didn't show up outside during Fourth Impact, which is odd considering how big it is.

I think so, but it also makes you wonder why they would have a shirt labeled for Toji in the first place. That's not just something you grab off the ground. Maybe within the timeskip Toji was working at NERV?

That's the black moon. It gets broken somewhat during the impact fun at the end of 3.0 and that is how it ends up. Watch the preview for 4.0 and you can see it right at the end.

No idea but it seems to have been a product of the third impact.

That's Touji's shirt - Shinji remarks that it's a little big for him and sees Touji's name. Then he goes and tells Kaworu that he's scared about what happened to his friends. The bigger question is who gave it to him - likely part of Gendo's plan to make Shinji curious about what happened, get him outside to see the devastation, make him more determined to put things right.

2 seems to be at the top of the shaft leading straight up from central dogma, though what it actually is I also have no idea. I don't know why but something about it reminds me of Hieronymous Bosch. In fact lots of this reminds me of his work.

3: That's an interesting theory, but it seems almost too planned for Gendo, and it would mean Kaworu was in on it. It was always Shinji's plan to pull out the spears, and Kaworu seemed genuinely upset and shocked that Gendo had lied to him.

I think Shinji would have done it all even if he hadn't gone outside and learned that it was his fault.

Personally, it might have just been a mix-up. They must have a lot of white shirts that they just keep washing and re-using. There's no way to get new ones with the world ended.

This is the way the world ends. This is the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a lot of laundry.

Anyway, yes, could be. But where are the nerv staff? The place seems to be inhabited by three people, an angel, and a clone. I quite like the image of Gendo separating out whites from darks and frowning when a black sock gets in with the shirts. DAMNIT I RAN OUT OF BLEACH SIX YEARS AGO.

Haha I got the impression that they all abandoned NERV when the Second Impact happened! Wille is an anti-NERV organization that is made up of ex-NERV members, so what I get the impression of is that the Nerv staff realized Gendo was a gigantic bad guy so they got the hell out of there.

Quite. So who's running Nerv? Making those delicious meals that Shinji gets through his hatch? Watering the lovely tree by the piano? Heck, tuning the piano even? Will nobody think of the piano tuners killed by third impact?

I have a question about Lilith. I seem to remember that the Angel never got to Lilith in Evangelion 2. However, why was Lilith's corpse on the floor rather than impaled on the cross? Also, what was the Mark 6 doing down in Central Dogma?

What I didn't understand was why it didn't leave off from EoE or 2.22, I was half expecting to see the third impact or atleast a brief overview of what was going on for the 14 years Shinji was unconscious in the EVA1 vessel.

Well Anno apparently scrapped his original ideas for 3.0 and started anew which created the film we have now and I am guessing that is where a lot of the disjointedness of 3.0 and the 14 year time skip come from.

After watching the preview for Evangelion Q again, I feel like it would've explained the events between 2.0 and 3.0, and help us to understand the ending of 3.0. Please Anno, release the movie based on the original script!

If kaworu is an angel, while isn't he like all other angels? Since Angels are from seeds of life(adam), and seeds of life are supposed to grant great physical strength?

Kaworu is the soul of Adam (the first angel), ripped from his body during the Second Impact, and implanted into a human/Lilin. He is the opposite of Rei, who is Lilith's soul implanted into a human (which is simultaneously a clone of Yui). This was the case in the original series/EoE, but it is unconfirmed if Kaworu's process of angel soul->human body is the same in the Rebuilds. Theoretically, he is, but there are implications that he somehow knows more about the world/original timeline than others.

The dead Evas are either a shit ton of mass-produced Evas, or all the people of Tokyo 3 somehow got turned into Evas.

I believe Mark.06 was housing the soul of the 12th Angel, which is why it went berserk during the Near Third Impact (until someone - probably Kaworu, since he was the pilot - stopped with with a lance). That's also why, when the lance was removed, it reawoke and began the process of merging with Eva 13. The crew of Wunder knew about Mark.06 and the 12th Angel, and were prepared to deal with it, but they were not aware of Kaworu as the original and 13th Angel.

I believe Mark.06 was housing the soul of the 12th Angel, which is why it went berserk during the Near Third Impact (until someone - probably Kaworu, since he was the pilot - stopped with with a lance).

Yes, but clearly some big shit went down between Unit 01 getting lanced at the end of 2.0 and the rotting corpses of Lilith and Mark.06. You can see in 3.0/3.33 that Mark.06 is stabbing Lilith, but if I recall correctly, he's also stabbing himself with the second lance.

It would also explain why Kaworu thought he knew about the lances. If he was there (particularly as the pilot of Mark.06) and ended up stopping the Near Third Impact, then he would have been familiar with the lances. However, somehow Gendo or Seele switched them out without him knowing.

Somehow, Eva 01 got put in its box/container thing, and wasn't released until Wille got its hands on her. I imagine that they've learned to somehow keep it in a dormant state while utilizing its S2/Lilith-Rei engine.

My hypothesis: Eva 01 and Rei II join together, leading to the start of the Third Impact -> Kaworu lances them and the Impact is partially stopped -> enough has been set in motion that Lilith makes an appearance -> people start getting LCL-ified -> Kaworu lances Lilith -> Angel in Mark.06 awakens soon after -> Kaworu (or perhaps Asuka or Mari) lances Mark.06 -> Seele's and Gendo's plans come to light, pisses off Misato and Ritsuko enough to form a new organization

At some point in there, Eva 01 is contained and shot into space, perhaps to prevent her from being used to start the next Impact. Meanwhile, Misato and Ritsuko set about making a ship that can kills "gods" with the dual purpose of being their base and preventing the next Impact. Kaworu joins with Gendo, hoping that Shinji will somehow return to Nerv. Gendo and Seele make Eva 13 with the intention of getting Shinji and Kaworu to use it to trigger another Impact. Kaworu goes along with this because he thinks that he can use the lances to trigger an Impact where Shinji is in control, but he's tricked.

Do you have a theory in this headcanon for why only the minor characters seem to have been LCL-ified? I've seen someone say something about it following a sort of sequence with the epicenter (in this case Nerv and the geofront) being the last to go, but the existence of Touji's sister and the non-Nerv members of Seele seem to suggest otherwise. Also, Asuka's statement at the end about going to "where the Lilin are" also seemed to suggest that a decent amount of the population is still alive and possibly in hiding.

Honestly, I can't really tell you why some would have been LCL-ified and some wouldn't have. In EoE, those with a strong sense of self were able to return to human form, so it could be that those with a strong sense of self were somehow "last" to be LCL-ified, but the Impact was stopped before it got to them. Like you said, some of them can still be alive at a different base.

Am I the only one who enjoyed this? I enjoyed the original series for how fucked-up the characters are, and 3.33 was like that, only with better visuals. I loved the piano scene. It was beautiful and really showed off the relationship between Shinji and Kaworu.

But the freaking SDAT player reformed. You're telling me the freaking SDAT player had more will to exist then Rei. I think something funky is going to happen between Rei number(uh what number would she be?) and the SDAT.

It could be that she's waiting for Shinji inside of Eva 01, and will make a return appearance when he manages to pilot it again. Shinji did say that "he would be content if they could stay like that forever."

She also appeared before Rei Q (briefly) when Rei Q was inside the LCL chamber.

Since it's inanimate I'm not even sure how the thing transferred into Unit 01 from Unit 00. Clothes and stuff never got tanged in EoE, so why did the SDAT turn into LCL? Oh well.

She's Rei III at this point but most people just call her Rei Q. I can definitely see something happening between them as well. If Fuyutsuki didn't say that Rei II was still in Unit 01 it would seem likely that her soul was in the SDAT.

I think it is more that Shinji being unconscious or in a coma prevented it. In 2.22 Rei only managed to get out of the Angel after Shinji rescued her. I think Shinji will have to go back in Unit 01 and retrieve the original Rei. It is way too important to just be part of a random flying battleship.

I have tons of questions and some wonderings, but I'm too tired and have a wrist injury to type them out right now, maybe later.

HOWEVER I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I ENJOYED THE MOVIE A LOT WOW so happy with it, especially after 2.22. I'm glad it fixed what really bothered me about 2.22 as well. Also it's really cool how the looping thing is pretty much confirmed! I hope we really do see more of Kaworu. "We'll meet again, Shinji-kun." I can't imagine how 4.0 will be, but I'm excited!

One thing I did want to ask about: What do people think of the change from Eva 01 being "god-material" to Shinji himself being "god-material"?

I thought it was interesting, because in the original series/EoE, Seele pinned all their hopes on Eva 01 becoming their vessel for Human Instrumentality, but Shinji and Yui threw off their plan and people were allowed to become individual selves again. This time, it seems that both Eva 01 and Shinji (and possibly Eva 13) can become the vessels for Instrumentality, and Gendo/Seele picked Shinji this time, and apparently tried to get him to unite with Kaworu (and Eva 13 to unite with the S2 engine from Mark.06) to initiate the true Third Impact.

its just the curse of EVA, all the pilots got parts of the fruit of life as a result of syncing with the EVAs thus the lack of aging as was told by Asuka.

so they are not exactly human anymore thus Asuka starts differentiating them from humans(lilins)

Gendo knew Kaworu will die, that is his plan, and by his death the 4th impact will stop automatically, while eliminating all seele influence, so that he is now the one who can control the next impact as he pleases.

I liked Misato's tonal shift between the end of 2.0 and the beginning of 3.0. Shinji thinks he's doing the right thing, and he's getting cheered on by Misato, only to wake up 14 years later and basically get called a cunt by Misato, Asuka, and the rest of his "friends".

It's not about 3rd impact. It's about all the shit they've been through because of Shinji's selfishness. They don't look like they've had a good time at Wille (look at Ritsuko's hair, and the crew clothing, i'd guessed these guys were living in the Matrix' Zion if it weren't for big ass robots), and it all stems from the selfishness of one little brat. I'd be mad pissed at the little brat who fucked up 14 years of my entire life.

It's not his fault, but it is because of him. He caused 3rd impact, which led to a series of very harsh events for those who stayed. There's also the grudge associated to that he didn't have to suffer through all those times, he was dormant in the EVA the whole 14 years.

I don't quite understand Fuyutsuki's intentions during the whole movie. Is he working with or against Gendo? In the beginning he says "I'm just going along with your plan". Then he takes time to get away from Gendo to talk to Shinji and reveal stuff about his parents, at the end of the shogi game he says, "This should be enough, Yui" like he was acting on Yui's orders to do so.

Also where Fuyutsuki says that Gendo has given up (or will give up? I don't remember) his soul to get his wish granted, is he basically saying that Gendo is no longer human? As in he's become a vessel by giving up his soul's occupancy in his body for something else's soul?

I feel like this movie just doesn't have the epicness of the previous movies. The tension and climax of 2.2 just seemed alot better, same with EoE. When fourth impact started it was just kindof like .... meh.

I really don't think I enjoyed this movie >.< which is really sad considering we've all waited so long for it T_T

I think a part of that can be attributed to the fact that viewers watching rebuild have seen an impact happen twice now, an there is surely to be another in the finale. Because of this, impact looses its mysteriousness and instead becomes somewhat of a big trope of itself when it does happens. It's hard to feel tensed, scared, worried etc. for the end of humanity when impact occurs at least once during each of the movies.

I have mixed feelings about this movie as a whole. Certain aspects were done very well and felt like I was actually watching original Eva, but as a lot of fans have pointed out, it's impossible to NOT feel a bit disconnected to the plot due to the less than stellar writing.

On one hand, Evangelion 3.33 feels the most like original Eva than any of the other two films (which I didn't care for in the slightest, but watched cause I love Eva a little too much), so in that regard it's already my favorite. It also really connects certain aspects of episode 24-End of Evangelion together, especially areas concerning Kaworu, even if his character feels a little bit flat in the film from time to time.

But then on the other side of the spectrum, this movie is also an entirely different entity due to how character development is being treated and the loads of technobable/unexplained questions being thrown at viewers that could otherwise be answered or hinted at through proper explanation of the time skip. I can forgive the lack of character development if I keep in mind that the rebuild series is a series forcing Shinji to experience/pay the consequences of his actions, hence the CAN/CANNOT title mechanics, but the shoddy writing is irking me and as much as I know Anno loves to fuck with his fanbase, I can't help but feel that his attempt to stir something up in 3.33 falls a little bit flat.

Like, yes Shinji is dumb, BUT WHEN EVERYONE INCLUDING KAWORU ARE TELLING YOU TO HOLD THE FUCK UP LETS NOT TAKE THESE SPEARS, I THINK HE'D HAVE MORE COMMON SENSE THAN TO JUST SAY FUCK IT I'M GOING IN ANYWAY. Which makes it seem as if Anno is trying to force a point that isn't really there to begin with. Same with the whole crew annihilating Shinji without giving him any explanation as to the sheer damage he's done to the world since initiating 3rd impact. I see that Anno was trying to create the same, isolating situation Shinji was in during episode 24 to better impact Kaworu's importance to his character and later mind rape at his death, but it really came out as contrived due to the above reasoning.

I want to like this movie a lot because it really does contain that grim, depressing, bleak attitude that the original Evangelion had and the fact that it deals with transcendentalism in a way that is entertaining for viewers to watch makes for great discussion and debate, but unless 4.0 ties up the tons of frayed edges 3.33 has managed to create, I'm gonna have to call Rebuild as a whole a bust.

When they're descending into Central Dogma, Shinji asks why Rei couldn't have piloted the double entry with Kaworu instead of him, and Kaworu said that it has to be Lilin (human) souls. But Kaworu himself isn't human, is he? How does that work?

Yeah, I noticed that too. I want to say it has something to do with the fact that Kaworu is the embodiment of the soul of Adam (at least in the original continuity, he may just be one of the many "Adams" in rebuild) and Unit-13 is an "Adam Vessel", making it easy for him to sync (possibly even more so than the humans/Lilin)

Since Rei is part Lilith, she would likely not be able to pilot something descended from Adam without some kind of complication. She syncs best with Unit-00 because it comes from Lilith rather than Adam like the other Evas, so it wouldn't be a major stretch to say she cannot pilot Unit-13.

Plus, for all we know Gendo could very well be manipulating what everyone believes about this in order to get his way.

My biggest question is what happens directly at the end of 2.0? It looks to me to be very clear that Kaworu canceled the third impact pretty quickly without all that much damage... so why does it look like severe, catastrophic destruction occurred?

Maybe something (maybe a battle) happened between Unit06 and Lilith? Because in the preview for 3.33 we see Unit06 decending into Central Dogma and then in te actual movie we see Unit06 and Lilith down there dead and damaged.