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Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Albert Di Salvo

Why did the left go crazy about Citizens United? Because the left saw it as an illegitimate power grab. That's why President Obama beat on the Supreme Court at his State of the Nation speech a couple of years ago. It's the political culture that requires we fight to the death. It's the way America does business in this age.

That's seriously hyperbolic and full of wild assumptions, unsupported assumptions.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by teamosil

That's just the reality of modern day legislation. It isn't anything deceptive or anything, that's just how it works for everything. The actual legislation passed by Congress sets up high level goals, it creates administrative agencies or positions or departments within agencies that are then tasked with coming up with the more specific regulations, then through a mix of agency and court decisions it continually gets more fleshed out and changes shape over time. That isn't just health care, that's how every major piece of legislation works. The major environmental statutes, for example, continue to generate tons of new regulations and directives and whatnot every day. Life is just way, way, too complicated to like spell out everything we'll ever need to know to totally redesign the health care system in a nice neat 10 page bill.

It's not that we don't know what's in it, because it has been throughly read by now. However, laws take a life of their own and we can't say with any certainty how it will play out. This gives rise to wild rumors and speculation.

AUSTAN GOOLSBEE:I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

It's not that we don't know what's in it, because it has been throughly read by now. However, laws take a life of their own and we can't say with any certainty how it will play out. This gives rise to wild rumors and speculation.

And rightly so. We were told numerous times this was not a TAX, the president. But IT'S A TAX. We were assured this was going to be paid for and we wouldn't have to change anything. "We the people" were lied to by everyone involved.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Billy the Kid

And rightly so. We were told numerous times this was not a TAX, the president. But IT'S A TAX. We were assured this was going to be paid for and we wouldn't have to change anything. "We the people" were lied to by everyone involved.

Four Supreme Court justices -- all conservative -- say that it isn't a tax. Are they lying, too?

And of course Mitt Romney agrees with them ... and disagrees with them.

"The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by AdamT

Four Supreme Court justices -- all conservative -- say that it isn't a tax. Are they lying, too?

And of course Mitt Romney agrees with them ... and disagrees with them.

Well, if we go back to stephanopoulos interview where Obama originally claimed it wasn't a tax, his justifications for doing so were rather weak, to say the least. Which made it seem more political ploy, than a well thought out, and articulable, position.

Re: SCOTUS LIVEBLOG - Obamacare Mandate Survives-Part 2

Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles

Well, if we go back to stephanopoulos interview where Obama originally claimed it wasn't a tax, his justifications for doing so were rather weak, to say the least. Which made it seem more political ploy, than a well thought out, and articulable, position.

Lots of Constitutional lawyers agree with the President that the mandate should have come under the Commerce Clause - the SCOTUS disagreed with that view. How was the President to know in advance what the Court's ruling would be in the matter?

“And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822