Derek Jeter for MVP

His .322 average leads all Yankees, and small sample size doesn’t apply — only one other player has amassed more plate appearances this season.

His .396 OBP is by far the highest among starters.

Okay, so the .456 slugging is comparatively low, and brings down his OPS, but Derek Jeter isn’t Derek Jeter because he hits for tremendous power.

Jeter’s 132 hits lead the Yankees, and only Robinson Canó, at 126, is anywhere close.

He’s stolen 19 bases and only been caught four times — the 19 are more than he stole in the entire years of 2007 and 2008.

We’ve been saying that 2009 has been a Jeterian Renaissance, but this is not just a Renaissance. This is the type of season that an MVP has, and in a league where no one’s doing anything Pujols-like, Jeter deserves some serious consideration.

It’s not just Jeter’s offensive numbers, either.

Jeter’s .984 fielding percentage is the best he’s had since 1998. 1998. There are three Yankees with a UZR that is positive — both center fielders and Jeter. Say what you want about UZR as a statistic, but the statistics bear it out: 2009 is one of Jeter’s best defensive seasons.

In a Major League career that started fifteen years ago, that says quite a bit.

Of course, there are the intangibles, too.

He’s batting a Cabrera-like (yes, I went there) .375/.435/.518/.953 in situations described as “Close and Late”, and his highest BA comes in games that have a difference of one run or less.

It’s kind of funny, right now, to think that at the beginning of the season we were, largely to a man, arguing that Jeter should bat lead-off to avoid grounding into so many double plays, as he seemed to do all of last year.

Some of us cast a wary eye towards 2010 — including 2009 Baseball Prospectus, which, in its write up argued that by the end of 2010 Jeter’s defense wouldn’t play in the infield and his bat wouldn’t play anywhere else.

B) Please learn how to use the reply button. You’re not responding to me, you’re responding to mg. You don’t just stick your response onto the end. Each comment has its own nested reply button. Thanks in advance.

Doug

but dye and ramirez didn’t make the playoffs that year.

in the eyes of the voters, good season on “winning” team > great season on “losing” team

WAR is one of many factors I consider. Raw production is another. The fact that Jeter put up his line at SS should count for something, but not for everything. I agree that middle infielders may have been historically undervalued in MVP consideration in the past, but I don’t want to swing the pendulum too far in the other direction… that’s how you wind up with dumb MVP votes like Dustin Pedroia, 2008.

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

That is fair. However, to me, MVP is based a lot on “where would this team be without me.” The fact is, the Yankees would lose more wins if Jeter went down for the season than if any other player went down other than Zobrist or Mauer. That means a ton to me.

No, I’m not ignoring defense. I’m trying to weigh all factors equally. If Dye and Manny hadn’t been so far and away, heads and shoulders better hitters than Jeter, I’d have picked Jeter over them.

But Dye and ManRam ran laps around the field offensively.

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

Dye was 35th in WAR that season. If you consider defense at all, Dye is not even in the conversation.

Make it 27

For what it’s worth, Jeter also stole 34 bases in 39 attempts in 2006….24 more than dye, manny, and morneau combined..

A.D.

100% works for me

Doug

The biggest problem with Jeter’s candidacy is that the voters of the these awards like shiny numbers: high BAs and especially large HR and RBI totals. And these are the exact things Jeter lacks. Unfortunately, not sure 15 HRs and 65 RBIs is going to cut it.

Basically if he tears it up to end the season, he’ll be in serious contention, if not they’ll probably look to someone else that helped their team squeak out the playoffs late.

zs190

Ichiro won the MVP with 8 HR and 69 RBI, so it’s possible to win without having the counting numbers. I think if Jetes wins the batting title somehow and we end up with best record, Jetes has a shot.

Doug

He also batted .350 that year….a pretty impressive counting number

But I do hear what you’re saying. And yes, winning the batting title would help enormously.

http://pinstripealley.com Edwantsacracker

I don’t think he has a shot. Because the baseball writers have been writing countless stories about how A-Rod changed the whole team when he came back.

They say that the Yankees were a .500 team without them and he put them over the top.

I don’t agree, but that seems to be the storyline of the year.

Ellis

Pedroia’s 2008 MVP season:

.326, 17 HR

jjyank

Consider me on the bandwagon, but I’m wary of Jete’s chances. Still though, I would love to see him get an MVP, and the clock is ticking.

zs190

Maybe they’ll give Jetes the Wakefieldesque MVP for career achievement~

ledavidisrael

AROD called it last year. I guess we are seeing the results of the jeters new regime now??

http://twitter.com/themanchine Bruno

This is true. I almost forgot that A-Rod said Jeter would win MVP this year.

monkeypants

The problem is the MVP voting seems to follow popular wisdom, which at worst is simply wrong and at best lags behind more critical analysis. So finally, after years of Bill James and Rob Neyer complaining about Jeter’s defense, etc., the worm turned and voices have been much more critical of him the last couple of years. By the time anyone bothers to notice the season he is having this year it will be three years down the line.

Jon W.

Cap’n Jetes is having a great year, but there’s no way he deserves the MVP over Mauer.

Jake H

I would love to see Jeter win one. I do think he needs more RBI’s thou. I don’t see a really dominate player in the AL right now.

whozat

He’s a leadoff hitter. He’s not going to get a lot more RBIs because he doesn’t see nearly as many guys on base as 3/4/5 hitters see.

And it’s “dominant”

Doug

Agree with those on here saying that Mauer deserves the MVP, but if the Twins don’t make the playoffs, don’t think he’ll win it. Especially if the Yanks finish 1st and Jeter closes strong. The other thing working against Mauer is his own teammate at 1B…..remember those shiny numbers I talked about before.

He’s having a great, All-Star season. But there’s others who are having far better seasons. I haven’t even mentioned Morneau, Tex, or Bartlett. Jeter’s probably 9th.

Doug

yeah, but tommie, you and i both know that the voters are idiots and don’t care of even know what the stats you posted even mean. they like BA, HR, and RBI. i actually can see this year’s voting ending up awfully similar to 2006 with morneau winning it and jeter/mauer trailing.

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

I totally disagree. Jeter is second in WAR, so I could make a similar list based on WAR and voila, Jeter is right there.Neither WAR or wOBA is the be all end all, but Jeter has a real shot.

But not because he doesn’t deserve it, just because he’s Ben Zobrist, and thus, idiot baseball writers won’t vote for him because they don’t know who he is. Right?

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

Yup. But that does not mean that Jeter is not in the conversation. I’m not saying he is the best candidate, I just don’t get why you are so dismissive of his candidacy. It is certainly as good as Youkilis or Cabrera’s, and probably right below Mauer’s and Zobrist’s.

You’re being too liberal with the phrase “dismissive of his candidacy”.

I didn’t say he sucks. I said he’s not in the top 5. Which you just alluded to yourself in naming four other guys (Mauer, Zobrist, Youkilis, and Cabrera).

I put both Cabrera and Youk firmly above Jeter, you put them tied with Jeter.

We’re splitting hairs here.

Stryker

why are you picking hunter and cabrera over morneau? morneau has a better WAR and wOBA than both of them and the difference between miggy and morneau in defense is very small.

Phil

Very surprised this post wasn’t about Jesus Montero.

http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

…or Francisco Cervelli.

YankeeScribe

Jeter’s my boy but there are two guys in Minnesota who are more deserving…

Moshe Mandel

Huh? Which two? I think that if the Yanks hold off Tampa and Minny fades, Jeter should have a great shot. Remember, Mauer has been great, but he missed a month.

YankeeScribe

Mauer and Morneau are having MVP-like seasons. If they keep it up, I don’t see Jeter winning over either of those two…

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

Mourneau is not having a better season than a number of other first basemen. He is not an MVP candidate in my book.

Doug

but in the book of the voters, he will be. he won in 2006 with a very similar season.

http://www.lennysyankees.com lenNY’s Yankees

Moshe. Morneau is leading the AL in homers and RBI with a .308/.391/588 line. Not only is he a candidate, he is probably the favorite at this point.

As for YankeesScribe, Mauer is tough to vote for because he missed a month and he hasn’t led his team back to first place with his return. Right now, here’s my top 5:

1. Morneau
2. Jeter
3. Mauer
4. Teixeira
5. Abreu

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

Mourneau’s numbers are hard to distinguish from a number of other first basemen. He is in the top 10, but no way is he the leader right now. I would have him 8th, if only because he is on the same team as the guy I have first.

http://www.lennysyankees.com lenNY’s Yankees

I’m not making it up. When you think of all the great first basemen in baseball, you are talking about Pujols, Fielder, Howard and A-Gonz. All of which are in the NL. As I said, Morneau is in fact the leader in both categories and easily makes him the favorite.

but Mauer missing a month and his team not being in first place could be directly related though correct? you cant blame him for not leading his team back to first when if he played in that first month of the season, they very well could be at this point.

and is that Bobby Abreu you have 5th? hes having a pretty good season but i dont think him or Teix are in the top 5 at this point.

If the logic is “Guys in Minnesota shouldn’t win the MVP over Jeter because their team didn’t make the playoffs and Jeter’s did”, I have two responses for you.

1) Boston, Detroit, Tampa Bay, and Los Angeles need to also miss the playoffs for that to matter, because the Sox, Tigers, Rays, and Angels all have at least one player having a better season than the Yankees.

Tommie, I love you man, but that is just hyperbole. As usual, it depends on which metrics you use. If you go by WAR, Jeter is tied for second with Mauer, behind Zobrist. Jeter has a solid case, and I’m not sure why you are putting him behind 8-10 players.

In regard to the winning team bit, I’m not saying it is the right way to weigh things, just that there are many voters who account for that.

You give a lot of weight to Jeter’s SS play, huh? Because Youkilis is a good defender at 1B as well, you know, and he’s a FAR more productive hitter than Jetes is.

the artist formerly known as (sic)

Damn right his SS play gets value, just like Mauer’s positional scarcity makes him valuable.

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

I give a lot of credence to the replacement player idea. The gap between Jeter and a replacement SS is greater than the gap between Youkilis and the replacement 1st baseman, as evidenced by the fact that we could legitimately place 4-5 first basemen in the top 10.

I give a lot of credence to the replacement player idea. The gap between Jeter and a replacement SS is greater than the gap between Youkilis and the replacement 1st baseman, as evidenced by the fact that we could legitimately place 4-5 first basemen in the top 10.

And this is the difference between the two of us: we value different statistical concepts differently, I suppose.

I don’t have a big problem with voters taking position into account. Jeter’s WAR is 4.5, Youk’s is 4.1. Jeter’s defense at SS has been much more valuable than Youk’s defense at 1B has been. Jeter also puts up his offensive numbers at a position at which most of his peers are way below his level, which you can’t say about Youk.

How would you define MVP? As I said above, to me, it is about where the team would be without the player. Except for Zobrist and Mauer, no team would lose more due to an injury than the Yankees would lose if Jeter got hurt.

How would you define MVP? As I said above, to me, it is about where the team would be without the player. Except for Zobrist and Mauer, no team would lose more due to an injury than the Yankees would lose if Jeter got hurt.

I define MVP as a combination of “the player whose presence on/absence from his team means the most to that team” and “the player who had the best season in the league”.

I try to weigh all the factors equally. Inferior raw numbers at premium positions get weight. But not ALL the weight. Superior raw numbers carry weight too.

Chris

But he’s still a first baseman (and sometimes 3B).

http://theyankeeuniverse.com Moshe Mandel

Fair enough. Just out of curiosity, what would your MVP list look like?

Okay, the “probably 9th” was probably incorrect. I wasn’t going into super detail on the list. Here’s more detail.

1) Mauer – best hitter in the AL by far, playing plus defense at a premium position. Shoo-in.
2) Youkilis – heart of the order hitter, having the second best offensive season in the AL, playing good defense at 1B and able to play decently at 3B as necessary.
3) Zobrist – best offensive season by anyone at at defense intensive position in the league. Does nothing but produce, plays 4 positions.
4) Cabrera – heart of the order hitter, plays plus defense, one of the 4 most dangerous hitters in the AL.
5) Hunter – great offensive numbers, plays a premium position
6) Bartlett – great production from SS, a tick better than Jeter across the board
7) Jeter – see Bartlett
8) Morneau – Great hitter, but as a 1B, not outstanding enough to jump over other positional players
9) Tex – I may flip-flop him and Morneau. Tex’s April struggles hold him back.

I think the divide between myself is a philosophical one.

Using primarily a WAR-centric method of determining the MVP is essentially saying “Who amongst catchers, middle infielders, and centerfielders is having the best season, and then are there any other players and defense-poor positions who warrant leapfrogging them?”

Using primarily a wOBA-centric method of determining the MVP is essentially saying “Who amongst heart of the order hitters is having the best season, and then are there any 1-2-5-6 hitters who warrant leapfrogging them?”

I hear where you’re coming from… I just asked the question because while you keep saying you take both approaches into account, it really seemed, above, like you mostly, if not totally, disregarded one approach in favor of the other. You still, in the list you just posted, clearly favor one approach over the other (and you explain why), but above you were really completely disregarding position/relative value/defense.

I mostly agree with the generalizations in your last two paragraphs. In the end, this is a completely subjective and relatively arbitrary decision, no matter which school of thought you happen to favor (unless you’re talking Barry Bonds in his prime, etc.). I come down more on Moshe’s side of this one, but I’m sure you both at least understand the reasons why you disagree and the see why the other side is reasonable. Whatever, it’s fucking MVP.

I’ll say this, though: Your points and Moshe’s points, like this http://riveraveblues.com/2009/.....ent-511091 above, make me retract my Jermaine Dye love for the 2006 MVP. I had forgotten in retrospect how bad he was defensively; thought he was just “meh” and not “OMG WTF STFU”.

So, I concede that point. Dye was a worse MVP candidate than I made him out to be.

Meh, the BBWAA should already have been dissolved for hundreds and hundreds of egregious offenses. What’s one more?

Rob H.

I don’t see how the month will be a detriment or really matter at all. By the time the end of the season rolls around if Mauer is still hitting like he is, it shouldn’t be looked at as a fluke or anything b/c he missed that month and had less P.A.’s than jeter. Plus he missed the month and still has 18 HR’s and 59 RBI’s which I think speaks to his abilities this year.

anonymous

I was saying Jeter wins the MVP this year. He gets simpathy votes for the many years he should have won if he can put a decent year together. This qualifies. Jeter for MVP.

http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies!

Jeter getting MVP this year over Maur would be payback for 2006

Doug

except mauer didn’t win it in 2006

http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies!

Really thanx I didnt know that at all

sarcasm X 100000000000

Doug

sorry about that then. tough to detect on here

http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/e6omir.gif OmgZombies!

What I meant was lots of “undeserved” players win. Why not Jeter this year for losing to Maurs teammate in 2006.

This resurrects the old debate about there should be 2 awards: MVP and Best Player. The murky definition of what constitutes an MVP candidate (as well as the quirky choices from year to year)makes any rationale for a given player pretty subjective. Classic case in point: Ron Guidry loses MVP to Jim Rice in 1978 because an everyday player trumps a once-in-5-days player, then, in 1986, Don Mattingly, an everyday player, loses out to Roger Clemens, a once-in-5-days player (eerily reversing the 1978 outcome). Go figure.

Jimmy

Can somebody compare JEte’s numbers this year to Pedroia’s from his MVP season last year? I bet JEte is pretty close.

Interesting. Is there a significant amount of luck involved in year-to-year defense? Or is possibly having Wang and his serious GB tendencies out of the rotation helping the team?

Chris

I think it was the focus on improving team defense. A number of articles have been written about the Rangers (primarily about Elvis Andrus) and Mariners (their whole outfield) taking steps to improve their defense.

The Yankees have seen significant defensive improvements at 1B, 2B, SS, and RF from last year. Two are because of new (better) players, but Jeter and Cano have both also improved significantly – as evidenced by both observations and stats.

When you put it all together, I don’t think this is just a matter of luck.

E-ROC

Wrong year to have a great year for Jeter with Joe Mauer being in a different orbit. I think Jeter would need a tremendous August and September in conjunction with massive Mauer slump for him to win the MVP.

I’m just glad he has bounced back from a “down” year.

Manimal

Over/Under on August 9th(last game of Sox/yanks series at home)is when the MVP chants start

That is interesting, though. If Mauer declines, then yeah, that changes the game.

Chip

No doubt, I don’t think you could make a case for anybody else in the league if Mauer ends up somewhere close to his .355/.426/.592 line with 30 HR and 100+ RBI. We’ll just see if he starts to tire down the stretch.

Unfortunately for him, August and September are his worst months so far in his short career so we’ll see what happens

terri girl

MVP…how did this award become Best Player Award…..Jeter is am amazing player….you could do worse

Mike HC

I for one expected this. So you can’t say “nobody” expected this. Jeter had one “down” year last year (which would be almost any other SS’s best year). You had to expect a bounce back year.

Two, I can see the writing on the wall already. Morneau will once again edge out Jeter as the Yankee hatred continues, or even increases with the “Coor’s field east” bullshit myth. Maybe Mauer will be this years golden boy, but Morneau has killer stats and the voters obviously seem to like him better than Jeter as evidenced by the voting a couple of years ago.

dkidd

not to overstate the importance of coaches (cano needs larry bowa!!! etc) but i think mick kelleher has positively impacted jeter’s defense

Jim Lane

Bobby Abreu gets my vote for MVP right now. With Vlad and Torri Hunter out he is hitting consistently, driving in a ton of runs and the Angels have the best record in baseball.

I’ve always been incensed at the fact that Dustin Pedroia won the MVP last year with more or less the same – and in some cases – inferior numbers to Jeter’s 2006 year. The difference this year, as it has been the last three years, will be Mauer and Morneau. Compare Morneau’s numbers in 2006 when he won the MVP to his 2008 numbers when he came in second to Pedroia. The reason why Pedroia won the MVP and Jeter didn’t, is Justin Morneau, on both occasions.

It will be much the same this year, as both Mauer and Morneau are having terrific seasons, as is Kevin Youkilis. Jeter’s had a great year and still could go on a tear and make a run for it. But once again it’s just not his year.

Tony

Jeter should have two MVPs already. I don’t even care about that bullshit award anymore.

http://www.theyankeeuniverse.com/ The Artist

Good piece Rebecca, really enjoyed reading it!

http://www.livingwithballs.com John

Jeter should have already won MVP twice. He got robbed in 1999 when a juiced Ivan Rodriguez won. Then he lost to 2006 to Justin Morneau who had no business winning either.

Ari

As long as we’re talking about end of the year awards, it seems like in terms of the AL Cy Young the conversation is all about Halladay, or maybe Felix. But shouldn’t Greinke be in the conversations? He’s 1st in the league in ERA, 2nd in Ks, 5th in IP, has just as many complete games as Halladay (5), and has ten wins despite pitching for the worst team (dead last offensively) in the league. It’s pretty clear that if he played for a team with a semblance of offense and a real bullpen, or even one of those, he would be set up for a 20 win season. In fact looking at those numbers shouldn’t Greinke be considered the run-away favorite for the AL Cy-Young?

Derek Jeter deserves the MVP Award simply because he is the most valuable player any team could have because of the way he unselfishly produces positive results for his team and the way he effects his team mates attitudes in a positive way. His stats are better than decent but not the main reason why he should have been voted as the MVP. Anyone who disagrees with this probaly thinks that stats alone should be the determining factor on how good a player is which in my opinion is wrong. Anthony in Pennsylvania