Barbie wrote:So.. now that there are new admits-- anyone have to make the choice between UF @ sticker & FSU with $$? I'm really wondering everyones thoughts on which they would choose (and why)?

Barbie, I would choose UF without ever having a doubt enter my head. Pay the extra money even if you are OOS because it will come back to you 10-fold. I have multiple family members who graduated from both schools and by far the UF grads are ballin' way harder and much more connected.(Unless you are considering politics which then I would probably advise FSU.)My offer stands that if you can get me accepted to UF I will pay both of our tuitions! However, since that isn't going to happen I say choose FSU and give me a slightly better chance of receiving a seat! haha j/k

Barbie wrote:So.. now that there are new admits-- anyone have to make the choice between UF @ sticker & FSU with $$? I'm really wondering everyones thoughts on which they would choose (and why)?

Barbie, I would choose UF without ever having a doubt enter my head. Pay the extra money even if you are OOS because it will come back to you 10-fold. I have multiple family members who graduated from both schools and by far the UF grads are ballin' way harder and much more connected.(Unless you are considering politics which then I would probably advise FSU.)My offer stands that if you can get me accepted to UF I will pay both of our tuitions! However, since that isn't going to happen I say choose FSU and give me a slightly better chance of receiving a seat! haha j/k

Well, shit, with that evidence I guess I should cancel my trip to Tallahassee for Friday.

Barbie wrote:So.. now that there are new admits-- anyone have to make the choice between UF @ sticker & FSU with $$? I'm really wondering everyones thoughts on which they would choose (and why)?

Barbie, I would choose UF without ever having a doubt enter my head. Pay the extra money even if you are OOS because it will come back to you 10-fold. I have multiple family members who graduated from both schools and by far the UF grads are ballin' way harder and much more connected.(Unless you are considering politics which then I would probably advise FSU.)My offer stands that if you can get me accepted to UF I will pay both of our tuitions! However, since that isn't going to happen I say choose FSU and give me a slightly better chance of receiving a seat! haha j/k

Well, shit, with that evidence I guess I should cancel my trip to Tallahassee for Friday.

While this is just anecdotal evidence, I currently work at a prestigious law firm in Tally right now where 90% of the attorneys graduated from FSU. They are doing VERY well. Grads from both schools succeed in this state. My boyfriend, currently active in the political system right now, also says that there is about an even number of FSU and UF grads as lobbyists and politicians. I think the best idea is to visit both schools, take tours, ask questions, get a feel for the area. Then go where you feel you FIT best, and definitely take into account any scholarship aid.

Barbie wrote:So.. now that there are new admits-- anyone have to make the choice between UF @ sticker & FSU with $$? I'm really wondering everyones thoughts on which they would choose (and why)?

Barbie, I would choose UF without ever having a doubt enter my head. Pay the extra money even if you are OOS because it will come back to you 10-fold. I have multiple family members who graduated from both schools and by far the UF grads are ballin' way harder and much more connected.(Unless you are considering politics which then I would probably advise FSU.)My offer stands that if you can get me accepted to UF I will pay both of our tuitions! However, since that isn't going to happen I say choose FSU and give me a slightly better chance of receiving a seat! haha j/k

Well, shit, with that evidence I guess I should cancel my trip to Tallahassee for Friday.

While this is just anecdotal evidence, I currently work at a prestigious law firm in Tally right now where 90% of the attorneys graduated from FSU. They are doing VERY well. Grads from both schools succeed in this state. My boyfriend, currently active in the political system right now, also says that there is about an even number of FSU and UF grads as lobbyists and politicians. I think the best idea is to visit both schools, take tours, ask questions, get a feel for the area. Then go where you feel you FIT best, and definitely take into account any scholarship aid.

First of all, I don’t want to know which law firm you work at but everyone I know who works at a firm can find some statistic in order to make their place “prestigious.” So using that word to describe where you work doesn’t mean anything.

Secondly, you work at said “prestigious law firm” in Tallahassee and 90% of the lawyers came from FSU? You’re saying that 90% of the people who work there graduated right down the road? Well that is not any big news because you can go to firms (even the prestigious ones) in Gainesville, Miami, etc and they too will be 90% employees who graduated right down the street. I don’t think anyone expects there to be an over-abundance of UF law students flooding the Tallahassee firms.

Thirdly, you make a point to say that people at your firm are doing VERY well and even capitalized “very” but I don’t know what kind of background you come from so I don’t know what to compare that to. Even without the “doing very well” information I still would have assumed them to make good money since it is such a prestigious establishment. However, if you read my statement, I said “the grads from UF are ballin’ way harder.” Not that the people who went to FSU are bums. They are doing very well but the UF grads are doing much better. Levin College of Law grants its alumni with far more access to success than FSU and that is just a fact. Do you know who Fred Levin is?

Finally, if anyone is that interested in Fin Aid and has an acceptance from UF they are not willing to accept because they are too proud to pay for it then please PM and let me know. Maybe we can work out an agreement with UF that would allow me to take over your seat and in exchange I’ll give you sticker price cash so that you can attend FSU. PM me if you want to try to make it happen!

JD is Gucci, you don't have to get an attitude... she was just offering another view. I'm sure it wasn't meant to offend you personally or to derail everything you offered. This is a long debate and you should expect people to offer evidence for both sides. We are all in the same place, lets play nice.

Barbie wrote:JD is Gucci, you don't have to get an attitude... she was just offering another view. I'm sure it wasn't meant to offend you personally or to derail everything you offered. This is a long debate and you should expect people to offer evidence for both sides. We are all in the same place, lets play nice.

JD is Gucci wrote:First of all, I don’t want to know which law firm you work at but everyone I know who works at a firm can find some statistic in order to make their place “prestigious.” So using that word to describe where you work doesn’t mean anything.

Secondly, you work at said “prestigious law firm” in Tallahassee and 90% of the lawyers came from FSU? You’re saying that 90% of the people who work there graduated right down the road? Well that is not any big news because you can go to firms (even the prestigious ones) in Gainesville, Miami, etc and they too will be 90% employees who graduated right down the street. I don’t think anyone expects there to be an over-abundance of UF law students flooding the Tallahassee firms.

Thirdly, you make a point to say that people at your firm are doing VERY well and even capitalized “very” but I don’t know what kind of background you come from so I don’t know what to compare that to. Even without the “doing very well” information I still would have assumed them to make good money since it is such a prestigious establishment. However, if you read my statement, I said “the grads from UF are ballin’ way harder.” Not that the people who went to FSU are bums. They are doing very well but the UF grads are doing much better. Levin College of Law grants its alumni with far more access to success than FSU and that is just a fact. Do you know who Fred Levin is?

Finally, if anyone is that interested in Fin Aid and has an acceptance from UF they are not willing to accept because they are too proud to pay for it then please PM and let me know. Maybe we can work out an agreement with UF that would allow me to take over your seat and in exchange I’ll give you sticker price cash so that you can attend FSU. PM me if you want to try to make it happen!

I notice that you have a love affair with UF. Seeing as you haven't been accepted, do you think it is perhaps just because it is your dream school that you over-glamorize the university? Don't talk down on FSU just because you have already made up your mind that YOU want to attend UF. I just said that I really think it's important for someone to examine both schools completely before making such an important decision as this one.

By the way, knowing my background is not relevant to my interpretation of how "VERY" well the attorneys are doing. If someone is earning in the top 1-5% of incomes in the U.S., that person is doing "VERY" well.

I also believe that a person would not "ball way harder", simply because he chose UF over FSU. If someone is smart and does well at UF, I am pretty positive that person would do similarly well at FSU and "ball way harder" than the lower ranked students at either of these schools.

JD is Gucci wrote:Barbie, I would choose UF without ever having a doubt enter my head. Pay the extra money even if you are OOS because it will come back to you 10-fold. I have multiple family members who graduated from both schools and by far the UF grads are ballin' way harder and much more connected.(Unless you are considering politics which then I would probably advise FSU.)My offer stands that if you can get me accepted to UF I will pay both of our tuitions! However, since that isn't going to happen I say choose FSU and give me a slightly better chance of receiving a seat! haha j/k

JD is Gucci wrote:First of all, I don’t want to know which law firm you work at but everyone I know who works at a firm can find some statistic in order to make their place “prestigious.” So using that word to describe where you work doesn’t mean anything.

Secondly, you work at said “prestigious law firm” in Tallahassee and 90% of the lawyers came from FSU? You’re saying that 90% of the people who work there graduated right down the road? Well that is not any big news because you can go to firms (even the prestigious ones) in Gainesville, Miami, etc and they too will be 90% employees who graduated right down the street. I don’t think anyone expects there to be an over-abundance of UF law students flooding the Tallahassee firms.

Thirdly, you make a point to say that people at your firm are doing VERY well and even capitalized “very” but I don’t know what kind of background you come from so I don’t know what to compare that to. Even without the “doing very well” information I still would have assumed them to make good money since it is such a prestigious establishment. However, if you read my statement, I said “the grads from UF are ballin’ way harder.” Not that the people who went to FSU are bums. They are doing very well but the UF grads are doing much better. Levin College of Law grants its alumni with far more access to success than FSU and that is just a fact. Do you know who Fred Levin is?

Finally, if anyone is that interested in Fin Aid and has an acceptance from UF they are not willing to accept because they are too proud to pay for it then please PM and let me know. Maybe we can work out an agreement with UF that would allow me to take over your seat and in exchange I’ll give you sticker price cash so that you can attend FSU. PM me if you want to try to make it happen!

leidice wrote:While this is just anecdotal evidence, I currently work at a prestigious law firm in Tally right now where 90% of the attorneys graduated from FSU. They are doing VERY well. Grads from both schools succeed in this state. My boyfriend, currently active in the political system right now, also says that there is about an even number of FSU and UF grads as lobbyists and politicians. I think the best idea is to visit both schools, take tours, ask questions, get a feel for the area. Then go where you feel you FIT best, and definitely take into account any scholarship aid.

Personally, I'd take the money. Of course it depends on how much. If it is insignificant and I found UF to be a better fit, then I would turn down the money. But, if it's significant, maybe 33.33%> of tuition, I'd chose the money in light of uncertainty in the current legal market.

Both of you mention ambigious terms to assert the successes of both law schools. Lawyers at a prestigious firm and F. Levin himself. If you want more relevant, therefore more accurate data, I'd find out what the class of 2010 is doing. It was a vastly different legal market right now in comparison to the market the individuals you refer to graduated.

I think it is more about the student's ability to market themselves, and less about the school's name on your resume (especially when the rankings are as close as they are between UF and FSU). In addition, I think having less debt, from scholarships, will help alleviate anxiety if you find the job market is not to your liking. For every success story you may find, from either school, I can find a horror one to match.

This is by no means a "don't goto law school" post. I'm trying to support my argument for taking money over a couple rankings in the US News. Far more important than 5 ranking spots is class rank.

leidice wrote:While this is just anecdotal evidence, I currently work at a prestigious law firm in Tally right now where 90% of the attorneys graduated from FSU. They are doing VERY well. Grads from both schools succeed in this state. My boyfriend, currently active in the political system right now, also says that there is about an even number of FSU and UF grads as lobbyists and politicians. I think the best idea is to visit both schools, take tours, ask questions, get a feel for the area. Then go where you feel you FIT best, and definitely take into account any scholarship aid.

Personally, I'd take the money. Of course it depends on how much. If it is insignificant and I found UF to be a better fit, then I would turn down the money. But, if it's significant, maybe 33.33%> of tuition, I'd chose the money in light of uncertainty in the current legal market.

Both of you mention ambigious terms to assert the successes of both law schools. Lawyers at a prestigious firm and F. Levin himself. If you want more relevant, therefore more accurate data, I'd find out what the class of 2010 is doing. It was a vastly different legal market right now in comparison to the market the individuals you refer to graduated.

I think it is more about the student's ability to market themselves, and less about the school's name on your resume (especially when the rankings are as close as they are between UF and FSU). In addition, I think having less debt, from scholarships, will help alleviate anxiety if you find the job market is not to your liking. For every success story you may find, from either school, I can find a horror one to match.

This is by no means a "don't goto law school" post. I'm trying to support my argument for taking money over a couple rankings in the US News. Far more important than 5 ranking spots is class rank.

InvictusFortis wrote:This is by no means a "don't goto law school" post. I'm trying to support my argument for taking money over a couple rankings in the US News. Far more important than 5 ranking spots is class rank.

I really don't think this is what it comes down to when people recommend UF over FSU. UF has a vastly larger alumni network than FSU (a martindale search shows almost 14,000 UF Alumni as compared to 5544 FSU Alumni). In addition, in terms of reputation in the relevant legal community (which is Florida - outside the southeast FSU and UF are likely indistinguishable), UF has a sterling reputation with lawyers, judges, and the community. Not to say FSU is a bad school, but UF offers more exposure to relevant markets in Florida. In Miami there is simply no comparison. UF has 1144 lawyers practicing in Miami as compared to only 265 from FSU. Same goes for a Jacksonville - UF has more than 1000 practicing lawyers in the city whereas FSU has only 285. In Orlando, UF has 1164 compared to FSU's 381. Even in Tampa, the largest city near FSU, UF still has more than double the amount of lawyers practicing - 1100 to 401. The only market where FSU lawyers dominate is Tallahassee(1245 to 461); now, if you're interested in working for the state, this should be be a relevant consideration. However, it is clear that attending UF is going to give you a better connection to every other major market in Florida, by a long shot.

So when people recommend UF over FSU, realize that there is more to the logic than "zOMG UF is a tier one!!!1" If you talk to almost any practicing lawyer in Florida you're going to be confronted with the reality that UF has a solid, deep rooted reputation as the best law school in Florida. I say this as someone who definitely could have received at least 20k from FSU and didn't even apply.

mteevin wrote:As someone who's taking money @ FSU, I have to disagree with your assessment, mistergoft. Take a look at the placement information from both UF and FSU when you get a chance -- notice something? Both schools are getting people in the same firms, everywhere in the state. If you really believe that UF makes THAT much of a difference, then more power to you, but I'll be enjoying half the debt and the same job.

Where have you found this? When I go through firm websites I barely see FSU represented. Also, of all the Florida NALP listed firms barely any of them show that they recruited at FSU while nearly every single one recruited UF.

mteevin wrote:As someone who's taking money @ FSU, I have to disagree with your assessment, mistergoft. Take a look at the placement information from both UF and FSU when you get a chance -- notice something? Both schools are getting people in the same firms, everywhere in the state. If you really believe that UF makes THAT much of a difference, then more power to you, but I'll be enjoying half the debt and the same job.

I am not sure what this "the same job" argument means. First of all, no. White and Case, which is probably the best firm in Florida in terms of complex transactional work, doesn't even have an FSU grad working for them. I know for a fact my class has people working there this summer (yes, people, plural). There are plenty of good Florida firms (Smith Hulsey Busey for example) who recruit solely at UF. I don't know anything about FSU's OCI, but I would be willing to bet we have better employers come on campus who are looking to hire UF grads. Holland & Knight has 29 attorneys from FSU whereas UF has 111, and UF sends at least 1-2 people to that firm every year. UF has almost triple the number of attorneys working at Carlton Fields. You might think these numbers don't matter, but when 3 of 7 people on the hiring committee are UF grads and only 1 is an FSU grad, guess who gets the offer?

I am not here to trash FSU, but those are the facts.

In addition, you have to realize that a large alumni network is VITAL, especially when you're not getting a job out of OCI. This profession is all about networking; if you have a larger network to work with, you're already at an advantage. When I can go to Miami and talk to 5 UF grads for ever 1 FSU grad that you're talking to, I think it's pretty clear that I have a distinct advantage in the job search.

In addition, UF's tuition, at least when I came here, is relatively low. I'll be graduating with less than 90k in debt, which is definitely manageable, even if I had to take a job in the state making 40k and go on IBR. You may graduate with 40k in debt and end up in the same boat, but in 3 years when I am looking to lateral to a firm and pick up a better salary, I'll again have access to that immensely larger network of attorneys.

mistergoft wrote: I'll be graduating with less than 90k in debt, which is definitely manageable.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match over the merits of UF vs. FSU, because these arguments never go anywhere but I do have to say this: on what planet in $90,000 in debt manageable? I feel like everyone on TLS has been deluded into thinking that they will be the best law student ever, and thus make the best attorney ever. What's 90k going to look like when you don't end up at the top of the class? Even with IBR, $90,000 is a ridiculously large amount of money. I'm not willing to shackle myself to a career that might not work out in the long run. With 90k, you don't really have a choice.

mteevin wrote:I'm not willing to shackle myself to a career that might not work out in the long run.

I'd argue that if you don't think going to law school is going to "work out" for you that you're probably not going for the right reasons. I don't think anyone should go to law school if they don't want to be a lawyer. I also don't think anyone should go to law school thinking they're going to be at the top of their class; in fact, if you search my posts, you'd see that I've advised many people on this site against going to law school for that reason.

mteevin wrote:I'm not going to get into a pissing match over the merits of UF vs. FSU

I don't think it's considered a pissing match when one person throws out relevant statistics and facts regarding employment prospects between the two while the other side more or less goes with this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EhQVo7lWS8