I thought Apocalypse was a better springboard to the next series rather than a wrap up novel to a nine book series. Like VileZero said in his review, the villains (aside from Vestara Khai) were the weakest point. I enjoyed reading about Abeloth's origins but I felt like it was too rushed. I was disappointed in the Jacen Solo parts. There were honestly times when I wanted to punch him in the nose. Don't get me wrong. I don't hate the Apocalypse. It's not Invincible 2.0. I wanted (or expected) something different.

Regarding Darth Krayt, I'm glad we finally got to know who the Dark Man finally is, and now that he's active we'll finally see the future that Jacen was willing to create an apocalypse to avoid. After knowing more about Abeloth, I'm starting to see prophecy in a different way. If the future is modified and triggers Abeloth, then is everything truly in motion?

Hey guys, haven't posted in a long time, and I've never been a big poster here, but it's hard to believe that FotJ is finally wrapped up. While it wasn't a conclusion as much of an introduction to possible future stories, I don't think that that is bad thing. Instead of the ending of NJO, where the Vong kind of went MIA, we'll have more characters and villains for the future.

So much happened. I'm glad that Denning wrote an epic rather than a shorter Invincible-style story.

Again, so hard to believe that FotJ is over. I think it was a good series.

The one thing I kept thinking during Apocalypse is how frustrating it was how disconnected it made the Legacy comics feels. Obviously it tied in a lot, but because of when Legacy was written it didn't look back enough. But it does help to explain how the One Sith could grow so large and powerful in 90 years (absorbing the lost tribe).

I was also surprised at how far it went into the fantastical. I hadn't watched the Clone Wars, so I hadn't previously known anything about Mortis, but it seemed to an odd way to take Star Wars. I don't think it is bad, but it will throw a lot of fans off.

Overall, but the biggest problem I had with it was how Abeloth was defeated (or at least contained) through very mundane means. For a being of the power she was shown (and hinted at) to have, I was expecting a bit more.

At one point I was disappointed with what was happening with Vestara Khai, until I remembered back to the death of Natua Wan, and then it really made sense. There was no where else her character could go.

Ultimately, It made me want to read more. Which I guess is the ultimate goal of any Star Wars title, because they aren't written out of goodwill towards fan, they are written with a goal of making money and continuing to make money. I think Alanna has a lot of potential in the future and I really like her. I think it was also time for something good to happen with Jaina, so I'm happy for the marriage. I actually got really choked up when Luke first called her "Master Solo". I'm hoping that the the EU, going forward, does a better job of doing right by the character that Jaina is, and making her worthy of inheriting the mantle from the OT characters.

I've not read the book and frankly, the very idea of reading it feels repulsive to me after reading spoilers. So, what follows can be seen, among
other things, as ignorant and uneducated rant.

I have just read spoilers, but in the light of those, Denning has done a thorough job in dismantling the post-RotJ EU and taking all hope out of it.
Everything coming after TUF together is an utter and total fiasco in my eyes, Legacy included and more so in the light of Apocalypse's spoilers.
It feels like anti- Star Wars.

There's little in-universe reason for all the Jacen hate, the eagerness to kill him and denying redemption from him in LotF and FotJ, when you consider
Luke's allies in this series. Denning must have just wanted to destroy the character. Creating stories that would make any sense or make characters
act true to their established natures seem to have been of no consequence to him. The Darth Krayt spoilers really broke the camel's back for me.
Luke spares no effort to kill Jacen and then this? I would say that Luke is the big, un-recognized villain of Denningverse. A Dark Man who prepares
path for evil and just doesn't see it. And I don't like it.

The recent series have been an utter waste of paper, of trees. I sincerely hope that Denning doesn't get to write any more Star Wars in any format
and that future authors will do extensive retconning of the years 35-44 ABY and the fate of characters, in life and in death. Or else I will welcome a
re-booting of the post-RotJ era, because what Denning has wrought with these series is antithetical to what Star Wars is and should be.

Rant over.

EDIT: Beyond Rant: Considering Captain Cardboard spoilers, is him leaving the position of Moff of Moffs instead of being elevated to Emperorshipanything else except a reason to have more novels between Apocalypse and Legacy? Because if he would have become Emperor, it seems like allwould have been neatly wrapped up between 44 and 127 ABY.

I think, to me, the saddest and most irritating part is that... if you're a Sith, and your last name isn't Skywalker... NO REDEMPTION FOR JOO.

It's just.. sigh. Vestara had progressed so much during this series, but nope. Right back to "lolzevil". And Jacen comes off... well. After his character was utterly assassinated during Legacy, I didn't think there was anything else that could be done to him. Nope. I was wrong.

Not to mention my personal feelings of the Jedi becoming assassins. I'm still uncomfortable about that. Some kid saw that Sith get electrocuted to death on live television and is going to have nightmares about it for the rest of their life, especially considering that kid didn't even know it WAS a Sith, just some reporter twitching and flailing as her skin boiled....

Ugh.

Anyway.

I'm just so underwhelmed by the last two series that I don't know if I'm going to bother continuing.

Rouge77 wrote:
The recent series have been an utter waste of paper, of trees. I sincerely hope that Denning doesn't get to write any more Star Wars in any format

and that future authors will do extensive retconning of the years 35-44 ABY and the fate of characters, in life and in death. Or else I will welcome a

re-booting of the post-RotJ era, because what Denning has wrought with these series is antithetical to what Star Wars is and should be.

Rant over.

EDIT: Beyond Rant: Considering Captain Cardboard spoilers, is him leaving the position of Moff of Moffs instead of being elevated to Emperorshipanything else except a reason to have more novels between Apocalypse and Legacy? Because if he would have become Emperor, it seems like allwould have been neatly wrapped up between 44 and 127 ABY.

I have gotten the feeling, through some interviews that Denning has done recently, that his stewardship of the post-RotJ era is over. He's made it sound like he's gonna be doing other things, which I'm fine with. His books are great, technically speaking. Content-wise, well - your mileage will vary. I actually thought that, out of the three books he wrote in this series, Apocalypse was probably his worst. But with the focus going to standalones and duologies, and with the huge amount of jumping off points that different books can turn to, there really isn't a place for Denning. I do hope someone will take the task of reviving Jacen, though. I know that the Powers That Be periodically read our stuff and know what fans want, and as tacky as bringing someone back from the dead can be, Jacen can be revived. Best part is that it can be done without seeming ridiculous, and fans will really love it.

I liked that they distanced themselves from Legacy. They'll get there eventually, but I like that there's enough wiggle room that they can tell great stories without feeling boxed in. I'd expected Jag to become Emperor, and instead - he isn't. That's fine, because when he was Head of State... he was BORING! When he gets cut loose and gets to have an adventure, he's a lot more fun to read. Luke also didn't let Darth Krayt live, they were both drained after defeating Abeloth. And they were "walking in shadows" or whatever, so it's not like the two were there together physically. Luke knows that Krayt exists now, and I suspect he'll be on the hunt for him. We do know that Krayt was in stasis for a while, though, and having a reason for that be because of the outcome of the Abeloth fight seems like a really cool (and believable) idea. It also gives authors the chance to pull a Kemp and use Luke in a cameo/mentor role, rather than have him take center stage, and let new/underutilized characters have a chance in the spotlight.

As blah as Fate of the Jedi was, I thought its ending was really filled with hope for the publishing future. There's a lot of different angles that stories can take, and it really feels like anything can happen at this point.

I can see that. It's just that with Luke knowing about Darth Krayt we are left with the question why the One Sith could hide, sabotage the Vongforming
and then join the Empire in the Sith-Imperial War as an apparent surprise. (Of course, Luke knowing about Krayt doesn't have to mean that Luke will
come to know about the One Sith and their plans, but Luke being Luke I think that should follow.)

I don't know whether Luke tells of Darth Krayt to anyone, so if it's a collective failure on the part of the Jedi, or from part of Luke, so that he becomes a
like Mara in Sacrifice, hiding things that should be told and then - because that, in my own opinion, keeping this hidden would have to mean - goes on and
gets killed by Krayt, wounding him so perhaps that he needs to go in stasis.

I don't mind Luke dying a heroic death at some point, if it's well done and fits his character, but no matter how a defeat to Darth Krayt would be spun in
an actual novel, it would be a defeat and a terrible end to Luke's existence on the material plane as far as I am concerned. And I don't want to see Luke
being Mara to Darth Krayt's Jacen. Open your mouth and tell everyone, and don't go alone facing enemies, Luke.

I would have wished that Denning would have just done what was expected and made Jagged Fel an Emperor or left him at the cusp of becoming a
one, because this has all the makings of a similar long running saga as Jaina and Jagged Fel's on-off-on-off-on -romance. We know how the story
must end, so to me personally this is - at this point - an unnecessary postponing of an inevitable and necessary plot event, emperor Jagged Fel.

Rouge77 wrote:I don't know whether Luke tells of Darth Krayt to anyone, so if it's a collective failure on the part of the Jedi, or from part of Luke, so that he becomes a
like Mara in Sacrifice, hiding things that should be told and then - because that, in my own opinion, keeping this hidden would have to mean - goes on and
gets killed by Krayt, wounding him so perhaps that he needs to go in stasis.

Well to be fair, we fans are all presuming that the Dark Man is Darth Krayt. He's never named - but being a man, Sith, having facial tattoos, and apparently missing an eye and portion of an arm, have kind of solidified the idea that it is, in fact, Krayt. I suppose authors could, later on down the line, say otherwise. But for all intents and purposes, it's probably Krayt - as Ship hints pretty hard when it takes Vestara to live with them. That in itself was an interesting twist, because I think it's pretty obvious that Vestara is going to be a recurring character. So her relationship with the One Sith seems questionable for how they manage to remain hidden for so long. There's a lot of hinting that her time spent with the Skywalkers and tricking them could be of great use to the One Sith.

For some reason, I thought that the book ended with a bunch of Jedi going off in search for the One Sith - but looking back, they're heading off to find the Mortis monolith and the Force-dagger from the TV show.

Honestly, I think Paul S. Kemp's duology is going to focus the One Sith heavily, moving forward. We know it's a hyped duology as being major, and he's actively utilized the One Sith in both his post-LotF books. And not giving ANY hints about the books seems to lend credence to wanting to wait for Apocalypse to be out for a while, so that when the books are announced, the ending to FotJ won't be spoiled by those who have yet to read it. The more I think about it, the more I think it makes a lot of sense.

I just finished reading Apocalypse, and I have to say it was well thought out, if not completely satisfying. As the previous FOTJ novels were released, and more plots were added, I was increasingly worried that there was no way relate the disparate plots. As Apocalypse opens, Abeloth is loose, the Lost Tribe are everywhere, and Daala, Jagged, and the rest of the Empire are in a firefight. What impressed me more than Denning's weaving of these jumbled plots into a single story was his explanation for why it all happened in the first place.

The idea of the balance of the Force being disturbed is growing on me. It explains why the last half century has seen the Clone Wars, the Galactic Civil War, the Yuuzhan Vong War, and the most recent LOTF and FOTJ conflicts. Before that, the galaxy had gone a thousand years without war, and now can scarcely go a decade without a galaxy-spanning conflagration. Having seen the Mortis Trilogy on the Clone Wars TV show, I was initially disappointed that Denning used Force Wielders (The Ones), instead of a pure Celestial-related origin for Abeloth. However, as I thought about it, I like that the actions of Luke's own father, the Chosen One, had repercussions beyond his lifetime. With Sith arising all the time (every thousand years, minimum) It seems silly for a prophecy of a Chosen One to be foretold thousands of years before a singular Sith (Palpatine) comes to power. When cast in this light, Anakin's rejection of the Father and subsequent fall to the Dark Side goes beyond bolstering Palpatine's power seizure, it shifts the galaxy for decades, perhaps centuries to come. Luke and Ben are now heirs to Anakin's legacy, cursed by his mistake and tasked with watching for Abeloth's return, While still ambiguous, I think the prophecy of the Chosen One has become more significant as a result of Apocalypse.

Regarding specific characters' resolutions, I was content with where Denning left them. Vestara clearly has an interesting future as a archenemy or secret saboteur, and despite their great chemistry, I'm glad Ben will have the freedom from Vestara to develop without constraints. The same goes for Jagged Fel--It's a long time before Legacy, and there shouldn't be a rush to get there. And how sweet is it that Jaina is finally not only a master, but also on the Jedi Council? Although I would love a change of heart, I think Jacen's unrepentant attitude shows how far he had fallen. I feel this better justifies Luke's actions that resulted in Jacen's death. If years in the Lake of Apparitions spent contemplating his actions haven't softened him, I doubt Jacen would ever have been redeemed. I think his confession that he saw Allana next to Krayt in his vision explains why Jacen was willing to embrace such a dark path to alter the future.

Moving forward, the galaxy seems to be a darker, but more interesting place. I think Apocalypse has done a fair job of tying up loose ends that have dangled since Dark Nest, and has opened the door for a new era, one that hopefully isn't so taxing on the reader to enjoy.

It does seem like she is being groomed, in the same way that the Solo kids were, to take part in the next generation of Star Wars adventures.

There’s this whole theme about Allana’s destiny that goes all the way back to the Dark Nest
trilogy. I tried to hammer that pretty heavily: she’s a special child
in the Force, she’s the one that they keep seeing on the Throne of
Balance, and she’s got a destiny. One of the things that the Solos have
been trying to do is prepare her to meet that destiny. They’re not just
being guardians and protectors; they’re trying to teach her how to live a
perilous life. She understands the things that she’s going to face in
her life and she’s doing her best to prepare herself. There’s a lot of
stuff that’s going on off-stage to prepare her to be a character of
destiny in the future.

I also really enjoyed the Chosen One/Mortis element because it added much more weight to the prophecy. It was weird the books where already halfway finished when Denning got the idea to tie her into the Force wielders but it comes off surprisingly natural. Jaina being not just a Master but on the Council was a real treat. As for Allana being the new Chosen one, that is a pretty damn interesting idea. I would love to see Ben become her Master at some point and relate some of what he learned from Jacen, which could help partially redeem Jacen in Ben's eyes.

It does seem like she is being groomed, in the same way that the Solo kids were, to take part in the next generation of Star Wars adventures.

There’s this whole theme about Allana’s destiny that goes all the way back to the Dark Nest
trilogy. I tried to hammer that pretty heavily: she’s a special child
in the Force, she’s the one that they keep seeing on the Throne of
Balance, and she’s got a destiny. One of the things that the Solos have
been trying to do is prepare her to meet that destiny. They’re not just
being guardians and protectors; they’re trying to teach her how to live a
perilous life. She understands the things that she’s going to face in
her life and she’s doing her best to prepare herself. There’s a lot of
stuff that’s going on off-stage to prepare her to be a character of
destiny in the future.

It depends. There was some play on the idea that Jaina was a kind of Chosen One in LotF. At one point she even thought about it herself. I would think thatwould be a kind of "lower level" Chosen One role, and not a permanent one. If we think of Anakin Skywalker class Chosen One, then we have couple ofproblems with Allana's role; and the main one I have that even when there could come up smaller opponents for her to defeat one way or other, at the endof the day Darth Krayt and his One Sith take over and rule the galaxy for eight years, with no mention of Allana and Hapes staying neutral. That could onlymean failure for her in my own opinion.

Jacen's whole motivation, changed again for Apocalypse, when it comes to Allana and her possible descendants, doesn't seem that right in light of Legacy.At best, Krayt lacked an ally in Hapes which made him an easier target. But, Allana's possible grand-daughter or daughter, Mrs Roan Fel, probably has tobe counted among casualties of Jacen's actions and when you think of her brother's plotting to bring down Roan Fel in a kind of still unexplained revenge,Jacen's actions to save Allana in LotF endangered the whole population of Coruscant in 138 ABY. One could consider Antares Draco a kind of mini- ChosenOne in the style of Jaina in LotF for killing Roan Fel and saving the population of Coruscant.

Allana has, in my eyes, the same problem as anyone else alive on 44 ABY. And that's the future of 127-138 ABY. They simply can't score a major orpermanent victory and in the long game need to come second to Darth Krayt and his One Sith.

I haven't yet read the book, but I skipped and read the parts I'm most interested in...how Jacen was portrayed. I'm having a very hard time reconciling the Jacen in NJOE/DN/LOTF (and even the beginning of FOTJ) with the Jacen in this book. He didn't read the same.

But the part that is bothering me the most, is his motivation for this whole mess and why he didn't tell Luke and then work together. I'm sure Denning thought it would be some powerful moment, but instead it came across as lazy without much thought about what’s been written in the past. I've spent the past couple days trying to come to terms with this premise and just can't.

I can buy that a dad’s overwhelming love for a child can cause him to do something drastic. Taken at the surface, I can see “wow, Jacen did it for Allana.” After all, we saw that with Mara and we know Jacen loved Allana. But stepping back, here is why I reject this premise:
- Jacen had 10+ years to react. It wasn’t an emotional reaction like it was for Mara (or Luke).
- Jacen had no connection to Allana when he saw the vision. While he could have figured out who it was, he had no emotional bond with his to-be-born child yet. Why not tell someone like Luke? If anything, I think he would have tried preventing her birth. At the very least, he would have had a strong reaction when he learned of her birth. (“Uh oh, here comes that vision!”)
- Jacen spent most of LOTF convinced he had to kill Allana. Not once during those internal monologues did Jacen think about how that would be the easy way out of the vision: “Kill her, change the vision. But the dark man would still exist, so what good is it to change half the vision, especially the part I care about?”
- In Betrayal, Jacen clearly chose the Sith path to stop some event where he had to kill Luke, not to save Allana.

If you understand why this makes sense, please let me know…. Why did Jacen think not telling Luke would save Allana? Do you think that the actions in DN and LOTF support the idea that Jacen saw Allana in his vision?

That leads me to this question. Did Jacen know the "Jedi Queen" sitting on the throne of balance with the Dark Man was his future daughter? According to those visions, Did he know he was eventually going to conceive a daughter with Tenel Ka? This is the one thing I don't understand. He had these visions on his 5 year sojourn, WELL before the events of The Swarm War and events following.