A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

This post is presented especially to Swiftsearcher in response to his post of topic #16, "Re: Here it is", posted on Oct. 8th, 2008 at 1:57:04 PM., between him and "Beale" about each others ideas as to where the upper mines are located.
Below is a copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky., it was obtained by Paul Henson. It is said to be the original journal of Johnathan Swift and was signed by him incursively. There seems to be much controversy as to whether Swift worked the upper mines or the lower mines.
The many journals that are out there all state differint facts about this particular subject.
As this journal states, "by Swift", that he and his company separated at the forks of the Big Sandy Creek, Swift says, my group went west to work the upper mines and the others went southwest along the great ridge to the lower mines. I guess it depends on which journal you go by.

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Swizard...
Great to see you back on board, This version of Swifts journal seems to be the most accurate of all the Swift journals...There is a wealth of information to be found in this version of the journal, in the two paragraphs above even gives a world of information of there own...
1. Swift tells he worked the "upper" mines, and that he seldom visited the "lower" mines...
2. The "upper" mines were a considerable distance west of the "headwaters" of the Big Sandy. The headwaters would have consited-ed of several forks of the Big Sandy. This is what some people get the area of Louisa confused with i believe, when in fact the "headwaters" are a bit more south of this area...
3. Swift tells of completely covering up or hiding all mines they worked...this would be the "upper mines" that was concealed.
4. Now the most interesting is Mundays mention of the "Meccas" Swift mentions that they was attacked at the forks of Big Sandy creek by Meccas of the Shawnee tribe ( It is known that the big sandy was traveled both by Catawba and Shawnee when they made war on each other) There were five divisions of the Shawnee tribe in Swifts era, one in particular being the "Mequachake" notice Swifts spelling of "Meccas" to "Mequa" they are in fact the same Shawnee Indians described by Munday to Swift.

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Does anyone have an idea of where the main campground of the "Mecca" Indians was? Surely someone recorded it. Although they could have been wiped out rather quickly by the diseases brought by white men.

Yea, though I walk through the Valley of Death I will fear no evil for thou art with me.

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Curtis...
Before 1754, i believe the Meccas or Mequas where in fact the Indians who built Eskippakithiki. But after 1754 the group disbanded spreading to several diffrent locations. The Shawnee were like Munday described "nomadic" they would travel in pursuit of game, its hard to say exactly where they were encamped when Swift encountered them. With them being nomadic, they could be any where in the state..... I'll look into this though -Ki-

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

swift said, we went from Alexandria to fort Pitt. first time was to locate the mines. second time was to start working the mines. they crossed the big kanawha. they used the ford just south of Charleston wv. the same one that the waybill of the indian mines on the little sandy, tells about. there are several carvings on this large rock, one is JS with a triangle. sad that some idiots carved over some of the indian pictures. they followed the buffalo traces to get to the forks of sandy. at fort gay on the west va. side. there is a large flat rock known as indian rock. on it there are many indian carvings, but also Turkey tracks and yep another triangle. the large track points due west. one of the buffalo trails heads west from the forks. to day rt. 32 follows this trail to blaine ky. here the trails split up. going north, south and west. turkey tracks just past the gas station on your right pointing west. 32 runs into into a cutoff that heads to 172 than heads into west liberty. from there west on rt. 460 along the large buffalo trace. see part 2

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Thats awesome Boomer, thats the same as i have it maped. I believe From 460 the buffalo trace ran to just around the Shawnee village at Old Fields, There the trail forked in a few directions, one other way north and two other ways south. The two trails south were rt 11 along the Red River, and the other trail going on south through Station camp creek. The trail north ran through Limestone or close to i think. correct me if im wrong though this just off the top of my head...

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Part 2:
West Liberty is interesting, the main trace went east on 460. but there is another trace that went north on rt. 7 to Sandy Hook, KY., easy traveling if you had pack horses. This is the headwaters of Little Sandy River. Just past sandy Hook on rt. 7, you go into an area that is surrounded by cliffs, on the right side there is a small rockhouse. Carved is an (>> pointing north) and a date 176?. You can make out the first three numbers. but the last? maybe a 2 or 3 or 7. i can't say for sure, who put this there, no idea?
Paintsville, KY. there is so much evidence on this 460 trail being one of the main routes heading east. The JS carved on the top of the ridge were lower devils creek ends. 460 is about 40 yards from this carving. Out side paintsville, one of the branches on paint creek is rockhouse branch, it flows southwest following 460. this rockhouse was used by both Indian and whites. On the left side are several initials, Jb, JS and SB and a triangle. Just outside Paintsville a bridge was being built across paint creek, several silver bars were found. Not far east from the bridge, a place known as flat rock. this is flat lime stone that's in the creek, on the side of the hill there a rotten leather bag was found with silver coins laying around it (English crowns). Swift said, we left 2 horse loads concealed at the mouth of a large creek running east. Just southwest from the mouth of this creek, at one time there were several small cabins found by early explores. there was a lot of indian picture writing on the rocks near the cabins. One was a triangle and a J above it. The buffalo were smart, always take the easy way. so did the miners and settlers. The upper mines are east of big paint creek.

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

1st Post so bare with me Please!! Just got bit by the swift bug a short time ago.. I like your thinking Boomer. It sound like some good research went into the post.. I have been looking through some old map of Ky dating 1785 and on that map they only show the Sandy forking in the area of today's Louisa. If the mines were on the east bank of Big paint creek, chances are they are covered by water since Paintsville lake was impounded.. I hope not!!! A bit of history on Paint Creek, It got it's name from the many Great Paintings by the Indians on trees at her mouth.
I would also like to know if Alve Rice gave him the original or just a copy

Re: A copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky

Originally Posted by The Swizard

This post is presented especially to Swiftsearcher in response to his post of topic #16, "Re: Here it is", posted on Oct. 8th, 2008 at 1:57:04 PM., between him and "Beale" about each others ideas as to where the upper mines are located.
Below is a copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky., it was obtained by Paul Henson. It is said to be the original journal of Johnathan Swift and was signed by him incursively. There seems to be much controversy as to whether Swift worked the upper mines or the lower mines.
The many journals that are out there all state differint facts about this particular subject.
As this journal states, "by Swift", that he and his company separated at the forks of the Big Sandy Creek, Swift says, my group went west to work the upper mines and the others went southwest along the great ridge to the lower mines. I guess it depends on which journal you go by.

Swizard...
Great to see you back on board, This version of Swifts journal seems to be the most accurate of all the Swift journals...There is a wealth of information to be found in this version of the journal, in the two paragraphs above even gives a world of information of there own...
1. Swift tells he worked the "upper" mines, and that he seldom visited the "lower" mines...
2. The "upper" mines were a considerable distance west of the "headwaters" of the Big Sandy. The headwaters would have consited-ed of several forks of the Big Sandy. This is what some people get the area of Louisa confused with i believe, when in fact the "headwaters" are a bit more south of this area...
3. Swift tells of completely covering up or hiding all mines they worked...this would be the "upper mines" that was concealed.
4. Now the most interesting is Mundays mention of the "Meccas" Swift mentions that they was attacked at the forks of Big Sandy creek by Meccas of the Shawnee tribe ( It is known that the big sandy was traveled both by Catawba and Shawnee when they made war on each other) There were five divisions of the Shawnee tribe in Swifts era, one in particular being the "Mequachake" notice Swifts spelling of "Meccas" to "Mequa" they are in fact the same Shawnee Indians described by Munday to Swift.

This post is presented especially to Swiftsearcher in response to his post of topic #16, "Re: Here it is", posted on Oct. 8th, 2008 at 1:57:04 PM., between him and "Beale" about each others ideas as to where the upper mines are located.
Below is a copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky., it was obtained by Paul Henson. It is said to be the original journal of Johnathan Swift and was signed by him incursively. There seems to be much controversy as to whether Swift worked the upper mines or the lower mines.
The many journals that are out there all state differint facts about this particular subject.
As this journal states, "by Swift", that he and his company separated at the forks of the Big Sandy Creek, Swift says, my group went west to work the upper mines and the others went southwest along the great ridge to the lower mines. I guess it depends on which journal you go by.

Swizard...
Great to see you back on board, This version of Swifts journal seems to be the most accurate of all the Swift journals...There is a wealth of information to be found in this version of the journal, in the two paragraphs above even gives a world of information of there own...
1. Swift tells he worked the "upper" mines, and that he seldom visited the "lower" mines...
2. The "upper" mines were a considerable distance west of the "headwaters" of the Big Sandy. The headwaters would have consited-ed of several forks of the Big Sandy. This is what some people get the area of Louisa confused with i believe, when in fact the "headwaters" are a bit more south of this area...
3. Swift tells of completely covering up or hiding all mines they worked...this would be the "upper mines" that was concealed.
4. Now the most interesting is Mundays mention of the "Meccas" Swift mentions that they was attacked at the forks of Big Sandy creek by Meccas of the Shawnee tribe ( It is known that the big sandy was traveled both by Catawba and Shawnee when they made war on each other) There were five divisions of the Shawnee tribe in Swifts era, one in particular being the "Mequachake" notice Swifts spelling of "Meccas" to "Mequa" they are in fact the same Shawnee Indians described by Munday to Swift.

This post is presented especially to Swiftsearcher in response to his post of topic #16, "Re: Here it is", posted on Oct. 8th, 2008 at 1:57:04 PM., between him and "Beale" about each others ideas as to where the upper mines are located.
Below is a copy/section of Swifts journal given by Alva Rice of Oil Springs, Ky., it was obtained by Paul Henson. It is said to be the original journal of Johnathan Swift and was signed by him incursively. There seems to be much controversy as to whether Swift worked the upper mines or the lower mines.
The many journals that are out there all state differint facts about this particular subject.
As this journal states, "by Swift", that he and his company separated at the forks of the Big Sandy Creek, Swift says, my group went west to work the upper mines and the others went southwest along the great ridge to the lower mines. I guess it depends on which journal you go by.