Re: Breaking Bad

The finale ultimately rung hollow for me. I honestly feel like Gilligan would have left the show with a stronger ending with Ozymandias instead of bringing Walt back into a space of some sort of likability by providing for his family and rescuing Jesse. I was also disappointed that the characters of Flynn and Skyler ultimately seemed unresolved -- I was hoping for something a little meatier at some point during this series but Gilligan seemed content to use them as shallow foils for Walt.

Things I did like about the finale:
- Jesse as Jesus-like carpenter, which served to both reward long-time viewers as a reference to Jesse's box he built in shop class for his mother but then sold for weed instead of giving to her, and also served provide a sort of religious allegory (Jesus was a carpenter, Pinkman suffers for the sins of Walt, etc).
- The choice to bring Badger and Skinny Pete back (that pair seem to be pulled straight out of the Rosencrantz & Guildenstern playbook to me).
- The beautifully haunting sequence with Walt in the snow-covered car waiting for the police lights to recede in the distance, and the visual tie-in to the repeated theme of blue ice.
- Walt's spot-on impression of the reporter while on the phone with the Gray Matter administrative assistant lady. (Do any of you have any theories as to why Walt removed his watch?)

Also, on first view, seeing the camera pull back from Walt's body in a sort of classic drifty overhead shot made me think he had finally decided to try his baby blue, and had gone out on a meth overdose. Which would have been a pretty fantastic way to end-- really hitting home that his one true love was the product all along. But as the camera pulled back and I realized there were no tell-tale signs or paraphernalia, I realized I was probably wrong.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by Miroir Noir

It was a good ending, very fan-pleasing, but in some ways almost fan-pleasing to a fault. I thought they hit perfect notes with Walt's final confession to Skyler, and with Jesse's refusal to do Walt's bidding after he saved him. At the end of the day, the Nazis, and Todd, and Lydia were characters who were brought on to the end of the show as a means of ending the show. It's hard to feel invested in the resolution of the story with their demise. For me, the narrative and thematic elements of the show were all satisfied (and better satisfied) in "Ozymandias." I like that Walt was made to suffer and look small in that episode. The Taxi Driver/Pulp Fiction redemption-through-massacre ending of the finale felt in some ways tacked on to all of the richness that came earlier.

An interesting parallel I thought of last night: my favorite episode of season 4, maybe the entire series, was "Crawl Space," where Walt absolutely loses it when he realizes Fring has got him and he's seemingly lost everything; two episodes later in "Face Off," Walt emerges victorious against Fring in a grand spectacle of a MacGuvyer action set piece, and I really didn't like it all that much. Something similar happened for me with this season as well, right down to the chronology of the episodes. I always thought this show was at its best when it reveled in despair rather than triumph. And although Walt met his end (was there any doubt he would?), his it ultimately felt more triumphal than dreadful.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by guedita

I don't think so. That maybe the most ambiguous part of the finale -- whether or not Walt has finally come to terms with how his monster enslaved Jesse.

there should have been a question mark in there, but it seemed the one time walt lost any control in the finale was when he confronted jack about partnering with jesse. it was the one thing he was wrong about.

Originally Posted by canexplain

If moles had subways, molestation wouldn't be one of the creepiest words there is ....

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by Miroir Noir

It was a good ending, very fan-pleasing, but in some ways almost fan-pleasing to a fault. I thought they hit perfect notes with Walt's final confession to Skyler, and with Jesse's refusal to do Walt's bidding after he saved him. At the end of the day, the Nazis, and Todd, and Lydia were characters who were brought on to the end of the show as a means of ending the show. It's hard to feel invested in the resolution of the story with their demise. For me, the narrative and thematic elements of the show were all satisfied (and better satisfied) in "Ozymandias." I like that Walt was made to suffer and look small in that episode. The Taxi Driver/Pulp Fiction redemption-through-massacre ending of the finale felt in some ways tacked on to all of the richness that came earlier.

An interesting parallel I thought of last night: my favorite episode of season 4, maybe the entire series, was "Crawl Space," where Walt absolutely loses it when he realizes Fring has got him and he's seemingly lost everything; two episodes later in "Face Off," Walt emerges victorious against Fring in a grand spectacle of a MacGuvyer action set piece, and I really didn't like it all that much. Something similar happened for me with this season as well, right down to the chronology of the episodes. I always thought this show was at its best when it reveled in despair rather than triumph. And although Walt met his end (was there any doubt he would?), his it ultimately felt more triumphal than dreadful.

IMO it wasn't "more triumphal than dreadful", it was a pretty much a total triumph. Walt got pretty much everything he set out for minus the things he couldn't give to the folks who wouldn't let him. He gave Skyler and Jesse all he could (after they paid their price for not getting with the program, and it wasn't even Walt who made them pay it).

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by heart cooks brain

beyond that, we all agree that walt intended to take jesse out until he saw he was a, you know, meth cooking slave.

not at all agreed. Don't believe at all that Walt intended to take Jesse out. The "Jesse's your partner" bit was a desperate stall tactic. Do you really think he was stupid enough to believe that Jack would "partner" with Jesse? He didn't have to see Jesse all fucked up to know that he was working as a slave.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by jackstraw94086

IMO it wasn't "more triumphal than dreadful", it was a pretty much a total triumph. Walt got pretty much everything he set out for minus the things he couldn't give to the folks who wouldn't let him. He gave Skyler and Jesse all he could (after they paid their price for not getting with the program, and it wasn't even Walt who made them pay it).

Yes -- this was pretty much the best possible ending Walt could have hoped for. He gave his family money, killed the dudes he hated, didn't have to go to jail, and Heisenberg's legacy will live on (I can see the booby-trapped trunk gun set-up becoming the stuff of lore and urban legend). There was no way Walt was going to live, so given that he had to die, he pretty much got everything he could have wanted.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by Courtney

Do any of you have any theories as to why Walt removed his watch?

Gilligan said there were 2 explanations. The first is that when they shot the season 5 premiere, he didn't have his watch on and for continuity sake, he took it off. the second reason was that it was a gift from Jesse on his 51st birthday and he didn't like it anymore. I think it was because he was on borrowed time and knowing what time it was just didn't matter to him any more.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by scenicworld

Gilligan said there were 2 explanations. The first is that when they shot the season 5 premiere, he didn't have his watch on and for continuity sake, he took it off. the second reason was that it was a gift from Jesse on his 51st birthday and he didn't like it anymore. I think it was because he was on borrowed time and knowing what time it was just didn't matter to him any more.

To me, the second reason (gift from Jesse) only would have made sense if Walt had removed the watch a few episodes ago.

Originally Posted by jackstraw94086

I forgive every error or shortcut in the finale for two perfect moments

"It was for me. I liked it. I was good it it. I was... alive".

and this:

I think the scene-stealer line for me would be: "You're going to need a bigger knife."

Re: Breaking Bad

Although bringing Gretchen and Elliot into the finale seemed a little bit forced to me -- they were there to serve as a way to get the money to Flynn, but Gilligan never really resolved Walt's relationship with them or what DID happen to cause such a rift in the Gray Matter days.

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by jackstraw94086

not at all agreed. Don't believe at all that Walt intended to take Jesse out. The "Jesse's your partner" bit was a desperate stall tactic. Do you really think he was stupid enough to believe that Jack would "partner" with Jesse? He didn't have to see Jesse all fucked up to know that he was working as a slave.

On Talking Bad, (someone) stated that Walt intended to take Jesse out until he saw that he was enslaved and decided to save him, and Vince was nodding in agreement. Not saying this is a definite confirmation...just pointing it out.

Originally Posted by RandyInHeaven

Devin - how does it feel to know that there are still more women in the world that would fuck me at this very moment than would fuck you?

Re: Breaking Bad

Originally Posted by captncrzy

On Talking Bad, (someone) stated that Walt intended to take Jesse out until he saw that he was enslaved and decided to save him, and Vince was nodding in agreement. Not saying this is a definite confirmation...just pointing it out.

I thought this was surmised just from Walt's voice tone and facial expression when he reacts to learning that Jesse is still alive. He probably figured out the forced partnership in the process though, serving as an excuse to piss off Jack and making him bring Jesse to the room, giving Walt just the right amount of distraction needed to conveniently grab his keys.

Re: Breaking Bad

I think the scene-stealer line for me would be: "You're going to need a bigger knife."

That was a good one too, but I think that was mainly thrown in there as the dude's punishment. He belittled Walt in front of the nation, but at least Walt could emasculate him in front of his wife.

Originally Posted by captncrzy

On Talking Bad, (someone) stated that Walt intended to take Jesse out until he saw that he was enslaved and decided to save him, and Vince was nodding in agreement. Not saying this is a definite confirmation...just pointing it out.

maybe. But Vince may have just been politely nodding at the interpretation. Walt didn't go back for the money, he didn't go back to kill Jesse, he went to eliminate the nazi's as a threat to his family/revenge (perhaps in equal measure). Saving Jesse was a bonus, I see absolutely nothing in any of the writing so far that would suggest to me Walt still needed to settle that score. In fact I still think Walt felt guilty about what he said to Jesse the last time they saw each other. The only reason Walt screamed about Jack not filling his part of the bargain was to stall them from shooting him before he could reach his car keys.

Re: Breaking Bad

Either way, I'm glad he saved him. That was really what I wanted in the end.

But I really felt bad for Walt Jr. He got no closure. Last words to his father were that he wished he would just die already. He looked so sad limping up to the door of that shitty apartment in those crutches.

Originally Posted by RandyInHeaven

Devin - how does it feel to know that there are still more women in the world that would fuck me at this very moment than would fuck you?

Re: Breaking Bad

I just wish he could've known that Walt never killed Hank or Gomez. I know he killed a lot more people, but Hank's death was the one that really seemed to destroy his son. At least he got to see him one last time even if he didn't get to speak to him or hug him.

December 10 - Children of Bodom/Abbath
December 16 - 18 - Day For Night
January 30 - Sleep
July 3 - Roger Waters