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Subject: Re: Board report, "Apache internals are starting to become a problem" ?
From: Dave Fisher
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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 10:05:33 -0700
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Alex,
On Apr 5, 2012, at 9:12 AM, Alex Harui wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On 4/5/12 7:12 AM, "Bertrand Delacretaz" =
wrote:
>=20
>>=20
>> I don't think it's fair to blame the secretary or infra for that - a
>> few hours delay in recording a code grant is certainly acceptable, =
and
>> infra requiring big svn imports to happen on weekends for minimal
>> disruption sounds totally reasonable to me as well.
>>=20
>> Those big svn imports do not happen every day, so it seems ok to have
>> to plan them a bit in advance.
>>=20
>> I agree that the overall delays in getting the code in svn are
>> frustrating, but secretary/infra is only a minor part in that IMO. =
And
>> in the meantime people can play with the copy that Carol committed
>> anyway IIUC.
>>=20
>> My suggestion: tone that down a bit, and remove the secretary bit =
completely.
> My goal isn't to blame any set of individuals, but I think the process =
is
> cumbersome given this is 2012. If the actual deadline to submit a =
grant in
> order to make a weekend SVN import is Thursday and not Friday, that =
really
> needs to be known to all future podlings. It is no fun to ask a VP to =
come
> in on his vacation to sign the grant and then have it be for naught.
Please, Apache is a volunteer organization. The secretary is a =
volunteer. Did you give the ASF secretary a heads up that the signature =
was coming and you wanted an expedited approval?
>=20
> I also don't get how SVN scales for 10 years down the road with 1000 =
more
> podlings and 1000000 of files. The maintenance and overhead and maybe
> performance of the server might be prohibitive. Why not assign =
podlings
> their own server and give import rights to a few select folks?
How would 1000 separate SVN servers work?
>=20
> Folks know the code is on the whiteboard, but there is a tendency to =
wait
> until it gets into the trunk. We want to try to start building and
> packaging a release from the trunk and now we are waiting another =
week.
Personally I don't understand the waiting. JFDI.
>=20
> I'll think about how to re-word this section, but I still think there =
is a
> scalability problem that is impeding us. The podling doesn't have =
enough
> autonomy around its own databases.
I think that you can certainly reword the report to indicate that delays =
in importing the large JIRA database are a concern.
The main scalability is the number of paid Infrastructure consultants. =
AFAIK this is now 3.5 people in addition to numerous volunteers. This is =
for 100+ TLPs and over 50 podlings. I don't think that it helps to call =
into question scalability of volunteers. It helps to understand that it =
will always be an issue.
The report should focus on the podling's concerns. The IPMC can then =
note that you need attention that will help.
>=20
>>=20
>>> ...The same holds true for the bug database as well. We have been =
waiting
>>> for the bug database since Feb 1. A gating concern is that our =
import
>>> of 30000 bugs might take down the main JIRA instance. Having =
distributed
>>> JIRA instances would scale better...
>>=20
>> Here I agree that INFRA-4380 seems to be stalled. At some point IIRC
>> we discussed the alternative of importing issues via jira's RESTful =
or
>> other API, throttling to avoid putting too much load on the instance.
>> Has that been pursued?
> Infra refuses to let us try to import this many issues, even =
throttled.
> Again, another example of the scalability issue. If we had our own =
JIRA
> instance, we could try things without taking down everybody else. I =
don't
> know how many issues are in the rest of Apache JIRA, but we're about =
to jam
> in 30000 issues.
When did you have your last discussion with Infrastructure about JIRA? =
Was it the conversation from a few weeks ago that I tried to kick start? =
We'll have to get back to that. Sorry if I've been focused on my $job =
and Apache OpenOffice and stopped pushing that issue with Infra. I'll =
get back on it later today.
Deep breaths, have patience.
Regards,
Dave
>=20
> --=20
> Alex Harui
> Flex SDK Team
> Adobe Systems, Inc.
> http://blogs.adobe.com/aharui
>=20