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Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

I'll never understand the desire some have to say only bad things about a player or team they are a fan of. I don't understand it.

In other words, some posters seem to only talk about what's wrong, never celebrating what's right.

I'm actually a Granger fan, yet I'm labeled a hater around these parts. I love his shooting ability and his toughness. But I am not blind to the rest of his game. Yet I'm supposedly a hater because of the criticism.

Perhaps it's because I am pessimistic about his return. But why shouldn't I be pessimistic after watching a decade of knee issues with JO and JBender? Tell me how much money was wasted on those guys.

Just because I think his ability to pass, dribble and defend are at best average in the NBA I am labeled a Granger hater. But I hardly ever get an argument back on the points.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

I wouldnt say posting Granger can't dribble, pass or defend as describing his abilities as NBA average... That's why you come across as a hater. I know you're not. I know vnzla is not.

I think his ability to dribble, for a starting small forward, is below average in the league. His ability to pass (which is extremely important for a wing) is at best average for a starting small forward. His defense is probably average for a small forward. It would be above average if he had stamina and/or showed the type of intensity you see from Iggy or Deng. He also gets burned on D at times because he's not paying attention. It's not his thing. He's just not naturally interested or motivated on defense...and it shows. Instead, Granger likes to shoot which he does that very, very well.

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Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

Let's just drop it now. It's almost time, can't we all just be excited now for the guy! Let's be critics after, but for now I'm ****ing pumped up for the guy. Regardless of what we think we are all hopeful he can contribute, bottom line.

Are we really comparing a prime Danny to a 22 year old player in his first year as the go to guy? Danny needed a super human like 6-8 weeks towards the end of the season to get his numbers up to where they were. He was pretty bad for most of that season.

Please tell how Danny evolved his game with Vogel in charge, I'm interested in that.

So in other words Danny was superhuman for half the season, and terrible for the other half. It was a shortened season 6-8 weeks was half the season. Also Danny and Paul's progress in scoring in their first 4 seasons mirror each other extremely closely. Years in the NBA tend to be more consistent in indicating development than years of age.

This argument is silly to me. Paul makes passes that Danny can't even see. High assist guys always turn the ball over a lot because they sometimes make passes that are risky. The fact that their turnover rate is similar but Paul doubles his assist totals is telling. Danny simply doesn't risk passes because he often doesn't see them. I'm not saying he never passes but that lack of vision is a detriment to his teammates at times. There's no double standard.

Their turnover rates are not similar. Danny's has ranged from 9.3 - 12.8, while Paul's has ranged from 12.1 - 15.2. For a career Granger is at 11%, Paul is at 14.2%. That is a big difference. We are talking about Paul turning it over 25% to 33% more often than Danny. Also is it necessarily a lack of vision, or maybe it is Danny understanding he doesn't have the skill to make those passes so he smartly doesn't make them. Part of being a good/great player is recognizing your weaknesses, and playing in a way to minimize your weaknesses. It is smart basketball. Something Paul still needs to learn.

Still - how does that make him the best player for those games ?? SO, LeBron guarded him and shut him down. He guarded LeBron and got lit up.

Maybe I'm missing something.

He was the best player on the team easily. He didn't start the series shooting well but he played better each game (shot over 40% in 4 of 6 games, the first game where he went 1-10 really hurts his average, and 1-10 from three in the first 2 games, from game 3 on he shot well) until Lebron took him out of game 5. I also don't think it is surprising that game 5 was easily Lebron's best game. In the 5 games Granger played from start to finish Lebron's best shooting night was 52.2 (game 6 after Danny was gimped), and he was 1-17 from 3-point land. In game 5 Lebron shot 61.5%, and was 2-4 from 3. He also had a +/- of +28 that game. The rest of the series he was +16 (he was a net 0 through the first 4 games). That was also the only game Lebron didn't play 40+ minutes. Also Lebron's averages last year, with Paul guarding him the majority of time, were extremely similar to Lebron's averages the year prior, with Granger guarding him the majority of the time. Only rebounds and 3P% were significantly different. The reality is, in the playoffs Paul didn't do any better of a job guarding Lebron as Danny did the year prior.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

I'm glad it's almost gametime.

Screw the debates. Everyone has valid points, but I've really missed seeing Danny out there. He's not my favorite player ever, but I know how badly he has surely wanted to get out there with these guys. I'm incredibly happy for him

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

That may or may not be true. But I would hate to have seen a 22 year old Granger (who happened to still be in New Mexico) attempting to guard a prime LeBron James.

Let's try to not compare Danny and Paul. LeBron knows the difference and it is vast.

Has Lebron said as much? I know Lebron didn't feel the need to try and injure Paul like he did Danny.

If you can't compare players how can you know one is better than the other? Paul is obviously a much better defender against most players, but he doesn't really guard Lebron that much better than Danny does, cause Paul has one weakness, his strength. Stronger players like Lebron can take advantage of that. Danny doesn't have the same weakness, making them defensively, at least before the injury, about equal when it comes to guarding Lebron. Offensively they are different players with different styles, so it might be that Paul is a more difficult cover for Lebron, but on average Paul is at a similar level to what Granger was prior to his injury. What make Paul the better player is his defense, but sometimes the match-up dictates that a normally lesser defender might be an equal, or near it, against that player.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

Has Lebron said as much? I know Lebron didn't feel the need to try and injure Paul like he did Danny.

If you can't compare players how can you know one is better than the other? Paul is obviously a much better defender against most players, but he doesn't really guard Lebron that much better than Danny does, cause Paul has one weakness, his strength. Stronger players like Lebron can take advantage of that. Danny doesn't have the same weakness, making them defensively, at least before the injury, about equal when it comes to guarding Lebron. Offensively they are different players with different styles, so it might be that Paul is a more difficult cover for Lebron, but on average Paul is at a similar level to what Granger was prior to his injury. What make Paul the better player is his defense, but sometimes the match-up dictates that a normally lesser defender might be an equal, or near it, against that player.

Paul is much stronger this year. Again, imagine a 22 year old Granger taking on that beast. But sure, Granger can guard LeBron in the post better. That is the one place prime Danny beats the young Paul George. But Paul guards LeBron, even at his young age, where it counts most...out on the floor and in the passing lanes preventing LeBron from making his team mates better.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

That may or may not be true. But I would hate to have seen a 22 year old Granger (who happened to still be in New Mexico) attempting to guard a prime LeBron James.

Let's try to not compare Danny and Paul. LeBron knows the difference and it is vast.

You would hate to have seen it? Hmm. Ok...Maybe youre younger, not sure. But quite a few of us actually watched a 22 year old rookie Danny Granger actually guard the MVP runner-up Lebron James in Dannys rookie year 2005-06. 4 times before Danny ever turned 23. And I dont think those of us that watched it hated it at all. Call it baptism by fire or whatever, but Ron Artest had really worked quite a bit with Danny before the season started and it showed when Danny played Lebron. Danny embraced it just as Ron had done years previously.

The first game was Nov. 24, 2005. Ron was still with the team so Danny only played about 15 minutes. But between the two of them they held Lebron to 19 points on 6-20 shooting and 6 turnovers. Danny was able to score 6 points on 3 of 6 shooting.

Game 2 was Dec. 23, 2005 and by this time Ron was no longer around. So Danny ended up playing 32 minutes scoring 8 points on 2 for 4 shooting and grabbed 10 rebounds while Lebron had a season low 14 points on 4 of 16 shooting.

Game 3 was Jan. 24, 2006 and Danny started this game and played 30 minutes, scored 12 points on 4 of 8 shooting and grabbed 11 rebounds while Lebron scored 23 points on 7 of 21 shooting.

Game 4 was 3 days later on Jan. 27, 2006 and Danny again started and played 42 minutes....scored 21 points on 8 of 11 shooting and grabbed 14 rebounds while Lebron scored 30 on 12-23 shooting and 6 turnovers.

So for the 4 games Lebron averaged 21.5 ppg on 36% shooting...this in a year when Lebron averaged a career high 31.4 ppg and shot 48% from the field. So in Dannys 4 games he was held to 10 under his average and never once scored his average.

From the very beginning Danny was always fired up to play Lebron. Not unlike most guys. But as we have seen countless of times hes never backed down from Lebron. But most importantly to your point, Im guessing if you had a chance to watch a 22 year old rookie Danny Granger play the NBA runner up Mvp Lebron James you wouldve been like most of us that were able to do so-quite excited about the outcome and the future and feeling a little more at ease about the fact Ron was gone because we had someone that we felt good about going toe to toe with the King at least 4 times a year for the foreseeable future. One thing for certain, hate wouldve been the last thing u wouldve felt when watching Danny go at him.

Like i said earlier...it seems a few around here have forgotten just how good Danny was. Both on the floor and off.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

I've seen people on this board call Danny the greatest pacer ever. When Antonio Davis was on nbatv he admitted he wasn't a fan of Danny and felt he was overrated. I'm sure other pacer greats think the same.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

Like i said earlier...it seems a few around here have forgotten just how good Danny was. Both on the floor and off.

Ron was the primary player in the first game. I seriously doubt Granger spent much time guarding LeBron, particularly because Stephen Jackson was also starting and played 35 minutes to Granger's 14.

You also fail to mention that while LeBron scored only 14ppg in that game, he almost had a triple double and the Cavs beat the Pacers without Ron. In the first time with Ron, the Pacers destroyed the Cavs by 22 points.

Game 3, did you even know the Pacers only scored 66 points and lost by 30 to the Cavs? Do you really think LeBron was being stopped in that game? He scored 23 points with 7 boards and 8 assists. He played about 8 minutes less in that game than his average. Always over 40mpg, he only played 35 minutes.

Game 4 you mention, LeBron was dominant. 30points, 7 boards and 9 assists (well over his average)...and the Cavs won again... Not exactly numbers to brag about for a defender.

Re: Danny Granger 13-14 Discussion

I've seen people on this board call Danny the greatest pacer ever. When Antonio Davis was on nbatv he admitted he wasn't a fan of Danny and felt he was overrated. I'm sure other pacer greats think the same.

Unless you have quotes suggesting as much you have no basis to make such an assumption. One ex-Pacer who never played with Danny doesn't like him. AD isn't the God of Basketball, his opinion isn't fact, just opinion.