I was just thinking about one of the best edges ever in racing that is now obsolete at most tracks and that was handicapping on a muddy track ! I remember when the surfaces of Chicago tracks would get real muddy and there were certain horses who loved the mud and would be often overlooked in the betting and these certain horses who love the mud would give the bettor a tremendous edge on winning a nice bet . Just to give an example years ago there was this very cheap horse named Ronnie Dean that loved a real muddy track ! Ronnie hardly ever won on a fast track , but in the mud I can remember like it was yesterday one year he raced 3 times on the mud and I bet him on each occasion and he won at roughly 12-1 and then about the same price 12-1 and then finally at about 21-1 ! I dont think there was ever a better edge for a gambler than handicapping mud horses . I know that there are certain horses today who like the sloppy track , but I dont think its close to the same edge as before ! As a gambler I'm always looking for a good edge betting and I really think we have lost the best edges you could get in racing . The race bike edge seems to be gone for now until someone invents a new bike where you can get an edge in betting a horse !

What do you think the best edge is in racing today ?

RTP

P S Just dreaming but bring back the dirt tracks !

Just like the T-BREDS the poly is safer for the horses the dirt would be safer for the harness .

Great post RTP...some of my best handicapping days have occurred on sloppy tracks. On the harness side, I remember a low claimer named Footwork (Bobby Krause), who just loved the mud at old Washington Park. Thoroughbreds, I look at the breeding, especially if their are no running lines in the form on an off track. Also prefer horses who run on the lead.

The angle I play on the thoroughbred side for fast tracks is "horses for courses". I think this is particularly true at Hawthorne. If you can find a horse that ran well at Haw in the spring, then did nothing on the poly at AP, there is a good chance he or she will awaken upon returning to Haw.

At Keeneland, I simply play big-time closers. I don't believe their poly is as "fair" as AP's.

The Red Mile is still, basically, a "dirt track".They try to make it an "all weather" track by adding sand to the mix in very generous quantity. There is very little limestone in the surface as compared to say, Chicago tracks.The fact that they don't race at the "Mile" in the winter allows such surfaces I'd guess although there are a couple trainers who either winter there or train there year around. Big difference between a 1:55 mile and a 2:05 training trip.

that is the problem with you guys you still live in the 70's when stanley was driving and sportmans and rosie was open. times have changed and internet betting with rebates exsist try moving into the new century. hahhahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha

that is the problem with you guys you still live in the 70's when stanley was driving and sportmans and rosie was open. times have changed and internet betting with rebates exsist try moving into the new century. hahhahhahahahahhahahahhahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahhahaha

Yes sir. I remember the days when it would start pouring rain at 430pm and my father would go and buy another program to handicap that nights card for an off - track .

when it comes to handicapping angles-- don't you think no more muddy tracks is just the tip of the iceberg.? And more so one of the main reasons why our sport's following has diminished to basically nothing.

Take for instant these angles that no longer apply. How many tickets where you able to put together because of these:

1. horses that would get there brains beat out at SPK AND Hawthorne have nothing but bad lines are now at the opening of Maywoods spring or summer meet.

2. Horses that had bad lines at maywood because of the turns but loved spk and Hawthorne.

3. Horses that where desperately locked in a two hole and couldn't get out in the stretch behind a dieing horse last week.

4.Horses dropping out of conditions into claimers that would crush a field instead of being crushed

5. 12,000 claimers that could drop to 8 or 10k that could dominate.

6. Pools large enough to tell if a horse was being played and was "live", instead of somebody bet a couple of hundred.

IMO-- all these obsolete things today that were factors back in the day has killed this sport more than anything else.

mcdaddi,that is a very disrespectful thing to say.Barntowire is good because there is no disruption here unlike *** and that other forum sulkie.What did these nice folks ever do to you to show them a lack of respect like that? Tom

Yes sir. I remember the days when it would start pouring rain at 430pm and my father would go and buy another program to handicap that nights card for an off - track .

when it comes to handicapping angles-- don't you think no more muddy tracks is just the tip of the iceberg.? And more so one of the main reasons why our sport's following has diminished to basically nothing.

Take for instant these angles that no longer apply. How many tickets where you able to put together because of these:

1. horses that would get there brains beat out at SPK AND Hawthorne have nothing but bad lines are now at the opening of Maywoods spring or summer meet.

2. Horses that had bad lines at maywood because of the turns but loved spk and Hawthorne.

3. Horses that where desperately locked in a two hole and couldn't get out in the stretch behind a dieing horse last week.

4.Horses dropping out of conditions into claimers that would crush a field instead of being crushed

5. 12,000 claimers that could drop to 8 or 10k that could dominate.

6. Pools large enough to tell if a horse was being played and was "live", instead of somebody bet a couple of hundred.

IMO-- all these obsolete things today that were factors back in the day has killed this sport more than anything else.

3. Horses that where desperately locked in a two hole and couldn't get out in the stretch behind a dieing horse last week.

The absolute dumbest thing I have ever seen is an open stretch on a mile race track!!!!! What dope came up with that Idea?

Pezz, I hate the open stretch even on a 1/2. You get these dopes driving and they draw 1-2-3 you have to invest so much more in your exotic wagers cause they can just sit and get a piece. Before the open stretch you would just throw these guys out because at some point if they were in a hole they had to make a decision to sit or go and 9 of 10 it was the wrong one.

3. Horses that where desperately locked in a two hole and couldn't get out in the stretch behind a dieing horse last week.

The absolute dumbest thing I have ever seen is an open stretch on a mile race track!!!!! What dope came up with that Idea?

Pezz, I hate the open stretch even on a 1/2. You get these dopes driving and they draw 1-2-3 you have to invest so much more in your exotic wagers cause they can just sit and get a piece. Before the open stretch you would just throw these guys out because at some point if they were in a hole they had to make a decision to sit or go and 9 of 10 it was the wrong one.

Exactly Charlie, Now these idiots get a free pass and don't have to think. Watching the races at Deleware, it was nice to see no open stretch. if the driver on the lead knows the only horses that can beat him is behind him and he is good enough, slow it down a little so that horse never gets out.

Charlie & Pezz , I have said the same thing for years and I dislike the open stretch more at Maywood than any other track . One other reason is the horses that sit in the 2 and 3 before the open stretch would pull somtimes especially the horse sitting 3rd and by that horse pulling he put pressure on the leader much sooner and that gave horses from behind a better chance that the race would collapse and the price shots had a much better chance ! Today the horse pulls from 4th or 5th and by the time he gets near the front the leader has had to much of a breather and carries the 2nd and 3rd horse to the stretch turn . Before the open stretch a lot of times the leader might not make it to the stretch turn and those horses on the rail were dead meat . When a race shaped up like I'm saying with a lead horse who got early hard pressure . BINGO you could win a nice bet . It seems today this happens only once in awile in a race where the leader collapses early , he has to be a real pig to collapse where the 2nd and 3rd horses lose all chance .

Charlie & Pezz , I have said the same thing for years and I dislike the open stretch more at Maywood than any other track . One other reason is the horses that sit in the 2 and 3 before the open stretch would pull somtimes especially the horse sitting 3rd and by that horse pulling he put pressure on the leader much sooner and that gave horses from behind a better chance that the race would collapse and the price shots had a much better chance ! Today the horse pulls from 4th or 5th and by the time he gets near the front the leader has had to much of a breather and carries the 2nd and 3rd horse to the stretch turn . Before the open stretch a lot of times the leader might not make it to the stretch turn and those horses on the rail were dead meat . When a race shaped up like I'm saying with a lead horse who got early hard pressure . BINGO you could win a nice bet . It seems today this happens only once in awile in a race where the leader collapses early , he has to be a real pig to collapse where the 2nd and 3rd horses lose all chance .