This game is going to hell with the introduction of these OP assassins all the time, but seriously though, how absolutely stupid does it look for all these assassins with their puny weapons to parry huge weapons like LB, Raider, Shugoki, Warden or HL? I think this would fix some of the turtling meta and give the OG roster a chance against these unchecked new kids on the block.

What do you guys think? Sick and tired of this fockery. Perhaps you could come up with a more specific and better thought out version of this idea.

EDIT: lets just give them the ability to parry everyone in revenge mode, but other than that, no one except for their own classes.

CandleInTheDark

11-16-2017, 04:01 PM

Given assassins are the least likely to parry, how exactly does this fix the turtle meta? Also most of the people you mentioned already have an advantage in that parry puts them out of range for an attack so at best it avoids chip damage.

MafiaRider

11-16-2017, 04:10 PM

Given assassins are the least likely to parry, how exactly does this fix the turtle meta? Also most of the people you mentioned already have an advantage in that parry puts them out of range for an attack so at best it avoids chip damage.

HAHA WAT?? Assassins are the MOST likely to parry against slower characters like I already mentioned. It fixes the turtle meta in the way that slower characters get more confident and keep pushing forward.

Tundra 793

11-16-2017, 04:14 PM

HAHA WAT?? Assassins are the MOST likely to parry against slower characters like I already mentioned. It fixes the turtle meta in the way that slower characters get more confident and keep pushing forward.

Assassin's generally benefit more from their Deflects than parries. That's on top of their limited guard stances and fast dodges, statistically speaking, they are the least likely to parry.
I'm a rep 20 Berserker, and I didn't get good at parrying until i started maining Highlander.

MafiaRider

11-16-2017, 04:22 PM

Assassin's generally benefit more from their Deflects than parries. That's on top of their limited guard stances and fast dodges, statistically speaking, they are the least likely to parry.
I'm a rep 20 Berserker, and I didn't get good at parrying until i started maining Highlander.

Hmm I see, what would you suggest then? I still think removing their parry would help the rest of the roster without nerfing assassins to the ground.

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 04:34 PM

What is your reasoning for removing assassin's ability to parry? Is it just because of "realism" as in a smaller weapon wouldn't be able to block a bigger weapon?

MafiaRider

11-16-2017, 04:48 PM

What is your reasoning for removing assassin's ability to parry? Is it just because of "realism" as in a smaller weapon wouldn't be able to block a bigger weapon?

That and as mentioned, a form of turtle meta fix and to help the rest of the roster

CandleInTheDark

11-16-2017, 05:35 PM

HAHA WAT?? Assassins are the MOST likely to parry against slower characters like I already mentioned. It fixes the turtle meta in the way that slower characters get more confident and keep pushing forward.

Keep right on pushing forward. Give me a top heavy, I will deflect all day, give me a side heavy I will dodge and attack you off that. No parry necessary.

That and as mentioned, a form of turtle meta fix and to help the rest of the roster

And as I said, removing parry fixes little. If I parry, a good deal of the rest of others I am not in range for an attack, at best I take stamina off you. If I deflect, which is same timing,I just have to learn my distances and dodge timing otherwise it is riskier, against most (anyone without hyper armour) I get a free attack. If I dodge an attack which just means going earlier than I would for deflect, then quite likely I get a dodge attack off.

So tell me where on my list of priorities you think parry is.

I play warden, conq, valk and nobushi as well, for those I learned to parry, but I was rep 6 or so (peacekeeper) before I ever needed to learn it.

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 05:40 PM

That and as mentioned, a form of turtle meta fix and to help the rest of the roster
Alright. I see 2 problems with this.

1) The realism argument goes flying out the window when you consider that this is not a game overly concerned with realism. From the way characters do twirls while attacking (which would get you killed in a real fight), to the fantasy inspired world and weapons to the way slashing weapons damage fully armoured warriors and last but not least the going Super Saiyan against multiple foes. The game has always meant for fantasy and entertainment to come first.

2) You are implying that assassin characters somehow dispraportionately carry the lion's share of turtling in the game. I don't see that to be true. If anything the assassins are the anathema to turtling. They are built around being aggressive and promoting an attacking playstyle over a passive, defensive one. Characters like the Conqueror, Warlord and Shugoki benefit the most from turtling (because they each benefit a lot from punishes) and they are all heavies. So no, removing parry from assassins will do nothing to fix turtling.

The direction the game is going in is what is already getting rid of turtling as the meta. The last health bar regen is gone so no more back dashing to recover life - a mechanic that is primarily responsible for carrying the turtle meta on its back and making it so prevalent. The 2 new characters are both built around being aggressive rather than staring at each other and relying primarily on GBs and parries for their damage.

Actual fighting is going on in Duels right now when I meet the new heroes. Actual, honest to goodness fighting with attacks being thrown out, pressure applied, mind games being played and punishes being worked in as moments of opportunity present themselves - as it should be. And all this in For Honor. The fighting game that put the defence into "fighting" game " :)

I honestly had to check that I was in fact playing For Honor yesterday because 1v1 Duels were actually fun. It's like someone switched on realistic mode or reverted us back to the beta because people were actually attacking! To be honest the state of the fighting in this game is in better shape now than it has ever been.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 05:56 PM

Alright. I see 2 problems with this.

1) The realism argument goes flying out the window when you consider that this is not a game overly concerned with realism. From the way characters do twirls while attacking (which would get you killed in a real fight), to the fantasy inspired world and weapons to the way slashing weapons damage fully armoured warriors and last but not least the going Super Saiyan against multiple foes. The game has always meant for fantasy and entertainment to come first.

2) You are implying that assassin characters somehow dispraportionately carry the lion's share of turtling in the game. I don't see that to be true. If anything the assassins are the anathema to turtling. They are built around being aggressive and promoting an attacking playstyle over a passive, defensive one. Characters like the Conqueror, Warlord and Shugoki benefit the most from turtling (because they each benefit a lot from punishes) and they are all heavies. So no, removing parry from assassins will do nothing to fix turtling.

The direction the game is going in is what is already getting rid of turtling as the meta. The last health bar regen is gone so no more back dashing to recover life - a mechanic that is primarily responsible for carrying the turtle meta on its back and making it so prevalent. The 2 new characters are both built around being aggressive rather than staring at each other and relying primarily on GBs and parries for their damage.

Actual fighting is going on in Duels right now when I meet the new heroes. Actual, honest to goodness fighting with attacks being thrown out, pressure applied, mind games being played and punishes being worked in as moments of opportunity present themselves - as it should be. And all this in For Honor. The fighting game that put the defence into "fighting" game " :)

I honestly had to check that I was in fact playing For Honor yesterday because 1v1 Duels were actually fun. It's like someone switched on realistic mode or reverted us back to the beta because people were actually attacking! To be honest the state of the fighting in this game is in better shape now than it has ever been.

What op means, is that Assassins have no cons.

They are fast, do lot of damage, have high hp, because most of them have 20 points less than a vanguard, which is laughable.

Can spam lights ( new ones can also spam UB bashes lol), can turtle if they want, can deflect and CAN parry.

Whats the drawback of beeing an assassin ?

You may say thet OG assassins has no opener. Yeah as well as most of the other classes, but they are still slower, and if you got consistently parried as pk, try to imagine what would happen with a raider, kensei, or a nobushi, or a shugoki, or a LB

CandleInTheDark

11-16-2017, 05:58 PM

Alright. I see 2 problems with this.

1) The realism argument goes flying out the window when you consider that this is not a game overly concerned with realism. From the way characters do twirls while attacking (which would get you killed in a real fight), to the fantasy inspired world and weapons to the way slashing weapons damage fully armoured warriors and last but not least the going Super Saiyan against multiple foes. The game has always meant for fantasy and entertainment to come first.

2) You are implying that assassin characters somehow dispraportionately carry the lion's share of turtling in the game. I don't see that to be true. If anything the assassins are the anathema to turtling. They are built around being aggressive and promoting an attacking playstyle over a passive, defensive one. Characters like the Conqueror, Warlord and Shugoki benefit the most from turtling (because they each benefit a lot from punishes) and they are all heavies. So no, removing parry from assassins will do nothing to fix turtling.

The direction the game is going in is what is already getting rid of turtling as the meta. The last health bar regen is gone so no more back dashing to recover life - a mechanic that is primarily responsible for carrying the turtle meta on its back and making it so prevalent. The 2 new characters are both built around being aggressive rather than staring at each other and relying primarily on GBs and parries for their damage.

Actual fighting is going on in Duels right now when I meet the new heroes. Actual, honest to goodness fighting with attacks being thrown out, pressure applied, mind games being played and punishes being worked in as moments of opportunity present themselves - as it should be. And all this in For Honor. The fighting game that put the defence into "fighting" game " :)

I honestly had to check that I was in fact playing For Honor yesterday because 1v1 Duels were actually fun. It's like someone switched on realistic mode or reverted us back to the beta because people were actually attacking! To be honest the state of the fighting in this game is in better shape now than it has ever been.

That is why some of the criticism confuses me. people have cried loud and long for getting rid of the turtle meta,now yes lights might need looking at though with the shaman range on some of them and on all the cancels that is not so much an issue there, people are also already dodging or striking through her pounces. Apparently the pounce tracks around corners and ignores revenge, those need to go, but giving all the characters kits with aspects of gladiator, centurion, shinobi, I would argue aramusha with his true feints though he could use some love and shaman, making aggressive play pay, that is how you get rid of the turtle meta. At the moment it sounds a lot like 'I don't have!' and the devs are working on reworks.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 06:06 PM

That is why some of the criticism confuses me. people have cried loud and long for getting rid of the turtle meta,now yes lights might need looking at though with the shaman range on some of them and on all the cancels that is not so much an issue there, people are also already dodging or striking through her pounces. Apparently the pounce tracks around corners and ignores revenge, those need to go, but giving all the characters kits with aspects of gladiator, centurion, shinobi, I would argue aramusha with his true feints though he could use some love and shaman, making aggressive play pay, that is how you get rid of the turtle meta. At the moment it sounds a lot like 'I don't have!' and the devs are working on reworks.

the same devs that barely touched the centurion in 5 months, now are gonna rework 16 characters.

Wake up man, and stop blowing ubi's *****

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 06:15 PM

What op means, is that Assassins have no cons.

They are fast, do lot of damage, have high hp, because most of them have 20 points less than a vanguard, which is laughable.

Can spam lights ( new ones can also spam UB bashes lol), can turtle if they want, can deflect and CAN parry.

Whats the drawback of beeing an assassin ?

You may say thet OG assassins has no opener. Yeah as well as most of the other classes, but they are still slower, and if you got consistently parried as pk, try to imagine what would happen with a raider, kensei, or a nobushi, or a shugoki, or a LB
Dodge strike and hyper armour are pretty effective tools in combating assassins from my experience. Most assassins are squishier than a Vanguard so if you have moves that enable hyper armour you can trade hits with them and will usually come out on top. The only assassins that can out-trade a Kensei for example are the Zerker and the Orochi's top double light.

I've never had a massive problem against assassins. Perhaps due to my playstyle, I like playing aggressively and I react to what the opponent throws my way. I much prefer an opponent that attacks me than one that just stares at me and feeds off of punishes only. I main Kensei and Highlander and I do much better against assassins than against characters that are forced to turtle because their kit either massively favours turtling or they just don't want to throw out anything that isn't a guarranteed safe move.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 06:21 PM

Dodge strike and hyper armour are pretty effective tools in combating assassins from my experience. Most assassins are squishier than a Vanguard so if you have moves that enable hyper armour you can trade hits with them and will usually come out on top. The only assassins that can out-trade a Kensei for example are the Zerker and the Orochi's top double light.

I've never had a massive problem against assassins. Perhaps due to my playstyle, I like playing aggressively and I react to what the opponent throws my way. I much prefer an opponent that attacks me than one that just stares at me and feeds off of punishes only. I main Kensei and Highlander and I do much better against assassins than against characters that are forced to turtle because their kit either massively favours turtling or they just don't want to throw out anything that isn't a guarranteed safe move.

GB on shugo, no more armor = free mobile target.

Nobody except kensei finisher has hyper armor, and hensei side, is basically parried 90% of the times. No t to mention that if they want, assassins can also turtle too, and attack only with safe lights, and istant zones. Which is a pretty safe way to deal damage.

Removing the parry from assassins you would incorage them to actually dodge. And dodge can be punished, parry attempts cannot, due to assassins's fast heavies.

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 06:24 PM

the same devs that barely touched the centurion in 5 months, now are gonna rework 16 characters.

Wake up man, and stop blowing ubi's *****
You got a right to be sceptical but consider that it is generally easier to add stuff to a down and out hero (like literally anything usable they give to Kensei would be a buff) than to take away stuff that might render the hero useless due to the way they are built around their specific playstyle.

They had to make sure the Cent was toned down but enough of him was left to still remain a viable hero. No mean feat considering how the bar stuard was built around man handling others. Fortunately they have learned since then. It'll be much easier to give the 16 other heroes more options now that they know what works and have a couple of benchmarks to measure up to.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 06:43 PM

You got a right to be sceptical but consider that it is generally easier to add stuff to a down and out hero (like literally anything usable they give to Kensei would be a buff) than to take away stuff that might render the hero useless due to the way they are built around their specific playstyle.

They had to make sure the Cent was toned down but enough of him was left to still remain a viable hero. No mean feat considering how the bar stuard was built around man handling others. Fortunately they have learned since then. It'll be much easier to give the 16 other heroes more options now that they know what works and have a couple of benchmarks to measure up to.

i think i won't be here to see them doing it, and so a lot of players.

They are too slow to do anything.

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 06:43 PM

GB on shugo, no more armor = free mobile target.

Nobody except kensei finisher has hyper armor, and hensei side, is basically parried 90% of the times. No t to mention that if they want, assassins can also turtle too, and attack only with safe lights, and istant zones. Which is a pretty safe way to deal damage.

Removing the parry from assassins you would incorage them to actually dodge. And dodge can be punished, parry attempts cannot, due to assassins's fast heavies.
Highlander gets hyper armour from Celtic Curse. Sure, it's parryable just like the Kensei's finisher but if they're too aggressive they get eaten in a couple of hits. If they get smart then I use Kensei's mixup and feint game and Highlander has his guard crushes after baiting out parry attempts for when Celtic Curse is not viable. Against turtles that never attack and thus never give you an openeing then my two characters are very restricted in what they can do. Playing an assassin character practically begs you to throw out something so I'd much rather face assassin characters. The super fast zones aren't exclusive to just assassins and they each come out from a specific direction which just means you always have to keep that in mind. Again, I'd much rather that than being unable to form any kind of attack pattern from my opponent because all they do is sit and turtle.

If the devs somehow get convinced to remove parries then they might as well remove parry from everyone to be honest and give everyone a free heavy from a GB. I see no merit in removing parry only from assassins. It won't fix anything. And the game without a parry mechanic in it at all will be less deep and less strategic.

MafiaRider

11-16-2017, 06:43 PM

If you want realism, than stop referring to parrying, represented IG, as parrying, for it is not in fact a parry, but rather it's just blocking the attack and pushing it to the side magically, and if you know anything about historical swordplay, what you see in game is simply not a "parry".

Btw that IS nerfing them the **** to the ground, how are they supposed to stop someone's chain when they're OOS? You can't just simply get rid of a whole class of heroes' ability to parry attacks.
And no, deflect is not a defensive option to replace parrying.
You'd basically be making characters with feintable unblockables even stronger, which is the last thing this game needs..

Wanna get realistic? Okay, why is it possible to be uninterruptible? Is tanking a swing from Raider's battle axe realistic?
Oh what about blood coming out of armour? Last time I checked, slash attacks don't just magically penetrate plated armour.

They can stop chain by blocking or moving tf out da way like everyone does. I said to remove their parry ability against ALL NON ASSASSINS, they should be able to parry against themselves.

Your comment about realism is crap, there are tons of features in this game that ARE REALISTIC. Taking one unrealistic feature and turning it into realistic isn't as big of a deal as you make it sound like.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 06:48 PM

Highlander gets hyper armour from Celtic Curse. Sure, it's parryable just like the Kensei's finisher but if they're too aggressive they get eaten in a couple of hits. If they get smart then I use Kensei's mixup and feint game and Highlander has his guard crushes after baiting out parry attempts for when Celtic Curse is not viable. Against turtles that never attack and thus never give you an openeing then my two characters are very restricted in what they can do. Playing an assassin character practically begs you to throw out something so I'd much rather face assassin characters. The super fast zones aren't exclusive to just assassins and they each come out from a specific direction which just means you always have to keep that in mind. Again, I'd much rather that than being unable to form any kind of attack pattern from my opponent because all they do is sit and turtle.

If the devs somehow get convinced to remove parries then they might as well remove parry from everyone to be honest and give everyone a free heavy from a GB. I see no merit in removing parry only from assassins. It won't fix anything. And the game without a parry mechanic in it at all will be less deep and less strategic.

Celtic curse is awfull, and you know it.

His HA on heavies connects too late in the animation, the counter on lights can be easily baited because everyone know its their only true tactic if you want to defend yourself.

Even parry attempt is risky because heavies are so slow, that can be Gbroken almost on reaction.

CandleInTheDark

11-16-2017, 07:09 PM

Wake up man, and stop blowing ubi's *****

People seem to believe if you are not spending your whole time here yelling like a two year old (and that is being unkind to two year olds) you are blindly defending the devs. So let's go through this again because you are not the first person to say this,90% of my posts in my first two months here were your planned nerfs for my main don't address what people find toxic about her and I still call for a rework to address them. When they made the second season deciding round sound closer than it was I went to town on them,also that they changed rewards without telling us thus annoying the winners also and again when they changed the rewards again even though my faction benefited from that. Asked them what they thought they were doing when they did free weekends before dedicated servers were in, especially when they did it a second time. So when I think something is wrong, I say it, and I say why, and hey I don't need to use capital letters or mis-spell cuss words to beat the filter to do it.

i think i won't be here to see them doing it, and so a lot of players.

They are too slow to do anything.

So if you're not having fun, why are you still here? Why are you getting stressed out by something that should be fun? Why, rather than saying Tekken sounds good, don't you get Tekken? No one here is saying you shouldn't or putting a gun to your head to make you play, but you and a bunch of other people seem determined that if you are going, you are taking as many people as you can, read a few like that this week.

You are telling me that I am wrong for enjoying this game, you and others are telling people who are enjoying this game that they should just quit 'like everyone else'. What does that get you? What does it accomplish? Have Tekken offered you money to bring players to it with you or something? Or are you just sad and bitter and trying to hurt the people who haven't acted to your liking quick enough?

Because I can tell you something now, all you are doing is stewing in your own toxicity. You are not convincing people that they are not enjoying the game, you are not bringing people with you, you are clearly not having fun and that is sad,you should be doing something you enjoy. But you don't get to tell me that I have not seen improvements and you do not get to tell me to stop playing this game, that goes for you and everyone else whingeing out there who want to take as many people as they can with them.

And I know exactly what you are going to say, course I am having fun, I play Peacekeeper and I am playing Shaman. I also play Conqueror and am enjoying that, he is among the first batch due reworks. I also play Valyrie, I play Nobushi and I play Warden, those are just the five rep 7 and above, I am also playing Berskerer (also in that first batch along with Kensei) and Shinobi, when servers come in and I can get more games finished there are several others I fully intend to pick up,not to mention ranked duel and dominion.

The devs have delivered on pretty much most things they have out and out promised, two of their first reworks affect me and I will be happy to try them, and to see what they do with any of the others they decide need them.I am here for the long term because I am enjoying this.

Go play something you enjoy, it will make you happier than moaning here,perhaps come back in six months and see what is different.

Vakris_One

11-16-2017, 07:13 PM

Celtic curse is awfull, and you know it.

His HA on heavies connects too late in the animation, the counter on lights can be easily baited because everyone know its their only true tactic if you want to defend yourself.

Even parry attempt is risky because heavies are so slow, that can be Gbroken almost on reaction.
Never once been GBed on a Highlander's heavy unless I've cancelled it just before the GB landed. Celtic curse is nice to trade damage when you know an attack is coming your way and the transition can be slightly delayed so as to catch off the ones who are expecting to parry it earlier than they think it should switch angles. The experienced players will always get it of course.

There are ways to use Highlander effectively much to the surprise of someone who thinks it'll be a cake walk but on the whole he's not even remotely close to being a competitive choice. Same problems as Kensei and Conq: his bad matchups far outweigh his good matchups.

Illyrian_King

11-16-2017, 07:57 PM

Please make it happen!

How can that shinobi with his 2 toothpicks parry my bigass halberd in full swing?!

It's not just unrealistic, but also forces people with slow hits to turtle ;b

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 09:21 PM

People seem to believe if you are not spending your whole time here yelling like a two year old (and that is being unkind to two year olds) you are blindly defending the devs. So let's go through this again because you are not the first person to say this,90% of my posts in my first two months here were your planned nerfs for my main don't address what people find toxic about her and I still call for a rework to address them. When they made the second season deciding round sound closer than it was I went to town on them,also that they changed rewards without telling us thus annoying the winners also and again when they changed the rewards again even though my faction benefited from that. Asked them what they thought they were doing when they did free weekends before dedicated servers were in, especially when they did it a second time. So when I think something is wrong, I say it, and I say why, and hey I don't need to use capital letters or mis-spell cuss words to beat the filter to do it.

So if you're not having fun, why are you still here? Why are you getting stressed out by something that should be fun? Why, rather than saying Tekken sounds good, don't you get Tekken? No one here is saying you shouldn't or putting a gun to your head to make you play, but you and a bunch of other people seem determined that if you are going, you are taking as many people as you can, read a few like that this week.

You are telling me that I am wrong for enjoying this game, you and others are telling people who are enjoying this game that they should just quit 'like everyone else'. What does that get you? What does it accomplish? Have Tekken offered you money to bring players to it with you or something? Or are you just sad and bitter and trying to hurt the people who haven't acted to your liking quick enough?

Because I can tell you something now, all you are doing is stewing in your own toxicity. You are not convincing people that they are not enjoying the game, you are not bringing people with you, you are clearly not having fun and that is sad,you should be doing something you enjoy. But you don't get to tell me that I have not seen improvements and you do not get to tell me to stop playing this game, that goes for you and everyone else whingeing out there who want to take as many people as they can with them.

And I know exactly what you are going to say, course I am having fun, I play Peacekeeper and I am playing Shaman. I also play Conqueror and am enjoying that, he is among the first batch due reworks. I also play Valyrie, I play Nobushi and I play Warden, those are just the five rep 7 and above, I am also playing Berskerer (also in that first batch along with Kensei) and Shinobi, when servers come in and I can get more games finished there are several others I fully intend to pick up,not to mention ranked duel and dominion.

The devs have delivered on pretty much most things they have out and out promised, two of their first reworks affect me and I will be happy to try them, and to see what they do with any of the others they decide need them.I am here for the long term because I am enjoying this.

Go play something you enjoy, it will make you happier than moaning here,perhaps come back in six months and see what is different.

Do what you want, but stop blowing ubi's ****. thats all.

Netcode_err_404

11-16-2017, 09:24 PM

Never once been GBed on a Highlander's heavy unless I've cancelled it just before the GB landed. Celtic curse is nice to trade damage when you know an attack is coming your way and the transition can be slightly delayed so as to catch off the ones who are expecting to parry it earlier than they think it should switch angles. The experienced players will always get it of course.

There are ways to use Highlander effectively much to the surprise of someone who thinks it'll be a cake walk but on the whole he's not even remotely close to being a competitive choice. Same problems as Kensei and Conq: his bad matchups far outweigh his good matchups.

he is a heavy, and like all heavies he can be gbroken during heavies attacks.