Why not just call it 0th level and they have to earn... oh 1K EXP to get to 1st. They still get the extra HP and skill ranks, but there's no confusion about if they can get to 6th... what about feats? As some of these are 1st level class feats, should they be used?

I didn't mind the step back to what amounts to a zero level state, I've done that more than once in AD&D. But I'm very wary of the decision to cut the point buy in half. That means a recreation of character concepts and basically creating a new character. I'll have to give this serious thought. I've never agreed with the concept that player characters are heroes, but I also think that having to spend valuable feat slots to make characters compitent enough to "do" things is asking too much if it's to fix a low point buy.For non-humans, there's only 3 feat openings as it is.

Its up to the all-knowing and all-powerful GM, low fantasy-ish is fine for me or if you go to regular fantasy say 15 points on the point buy. Or keep the thread going maybe another GM will offer to run a higher point buy game while we get into this one or not.

Why not just call it 0th level and they have to earn... oh 1K EXP to get to 1st. They still get the extra HP and skill ranks, but there's no confusion about if they can get to 6th... what about feats? As some of these are 1st level class feats, should they be used?

To keep it simple I prefer the 1st Level NPC Class/Character Class just pretend the NPC class is part of the Character Classes and its not counted.

EDIT: My sheet so far is still under construction, used one of the human racial options and arcane school selection to beef her up. Transmutation is always a good school it has the most spells and makes her a bread and butter sort of wizard.

Physical Description:Lydia could be best described as a striking woman of unusual beauty. A mass of rich chestnut colored hair falls about her face and shoulders in curly locks; framing a lightly tanned face that’s dominated by slightly upturned almond shaped Sky blue eyes. Slightly pouty lips under a straight nose and a firm, almost stubborn chin completes her visage. An athletic figure with a combination of soft curves and firm muscles is accentuated with generous C-cup breast, a slender, toned waist and flaring out into rounded hips and rear. Long, lean legs and well worked arms complete the image. She is most often seen in well made, serviceable, if not overly expensive clothing in natural colors.

Personality:Lydia is a woman who enjoys life with a zest that could leave some winded simply by watching her. A constant, vibrant energy seems to infuse her every breath and she firmly believes that life is meant to be lived, people anoyed and humor above all is to be encouraged. If you’re as likely as not to die tomorrow, live for today! A relatively good natured person, she is as much at home in a crowd of people in a tavern as she is in the wilds of the forest as she tracks evil beings wherever she might find them.

Background:Lydia is the only child of parents with a serious taste of wonderlust and desire to see what was around the next hill; settling down only long enough to restore their supplies, make some more coin and gather up items to sell in the next town or settlement that they came to.

When Lydia was in her early teens, her family was set upon by an Orc band and it was, as to be expected, a slaughter. Her parents were killed and Lydia left for dead among the wreckage of the wagon and supplies. Lost and alone, she continued along the roadway and avoided the same band of bandits only by shere luck before she was found by a older ranger and taken under his wing just outside the town of Sandy Point. As time went on, Lydia became an not uncommon sight in the forest and surrounding lands as she learned her craft and made decent bows to sell in town from time to time for the extra coin.

That's why I was asking about the 0th level option. Aside from working to reach 2nd level twice, the NPC class doesn't give you very much to begin with and there's a reason why games start at 1st level. Still, a GM is a GM is a GM.

I like the 0-level idea. And since it is zero level, you don't start with a feat. Skills and saves and BAB are all great little perks for playing pre-1st-level. And I assume first comes when the GM decides, and not at some arbitrary amount of XP.

Sorry, I didnt realize that that idea was going to spin so many heads. On second thought I guess just forget it, we can just use the characters we started with. I hate to do that to all of you, but it seems like the easiest solution.

Sorry, I didnt realize that that idea was going to spin so many heads. On second thought I guess just forget it, we can just use the characters we started with. I hate to do that to all of you, but it seems like the easiest solution.

I will use my new Wizard but not sure of buy points now your the GM make some final decisions and I'll do a character.

I like the 0-level idea. And since it is zero level, you don't start with a feat. Skills and saves and BAB are all great little perks for playing pre-1st-level. And I assume first comes when the GM decides, and not at some arbitrary amount of XP.

Hmmm, in AD&D (I have next to no experience with any D&D beyond 2nd Ed), there were rules for 0 level characters and an EXP amount that signified advancing to 1st level. Somehow, as 0 level was not used very often, I doubt that either system took it into account.

I think that there isn't a pre-1st level is because 1st level is suppose to represent the beginning of adult life. You've served your apprenticeship, training or whatever you need to from about the age of 13 to 18-20 (for humans) and you've decided that you're ready to go out into the world with the bare minimum to keep you from hurting yourself accidently... as death rates for 1st to 3rd level is suppose to be somewhat high, those "few" who survive it have something to say, "Been there." You've already been the lord's son, or the commoner, or the scribe for some wizard who decided to teach you a few cantrips before you actually get a "real" spell.

Anyway, we'll see what happens. As a 0 level character, I agree that there wouldn't be a feat, but it's been stated that it's 1st... wonder if that means another feat when you hit 1st level again? lol