If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Yeah. Painfull but funny at the same time. Given Datenwolfs German accent it reminds me of the unconditional Germab surrendering from WW1. And history repeats it self. After Lennart Poettering set things straight and humiliated the KLANG clowns a subtle level of hate and frustration is emerging. What ever Lennart does a bunch of haters are there to critize and even defaming him on wikipedia. What a bunch of assholes. Well Lennart keeps coding and the clowns keep bitching.

It is really nice KLANG died in its infancy. It would never pass a mainline review anyway. If it ever was implemented. It would end like Reiser4. LOL.

I've noticed something when I've watched videos of/attended *nix conferences compared to academic conferences. In academic conferences people sit quietly and listen to you, then ask questions at the end. In the *nix conferences, people seem quite happy to heckle the presenter, I've seen somebody call out "That's bullshit".

I can't find a compelling reason for a member of the audience to heckle/shout out instead of waiting until the end to raise their queries/concerns. Can anybody explain this discrepancy?

I've noticed something when I've watched videos of/attended *nix conferences compared to academic conferences. In academic conferences people sit quietly and listen to you, then ask questions at the end. In the *nix conferences, people seem quite happy to heckle the presenter, I've seen somebody call out "That's bullshit".

I can't find a compelling reason for a member of the audience to heckle/shout out instead of waiting until the end to raise their queries/concerns. Can anybody explain this discrepancy?

I've noticed something when I've watched videos of/attended *nix conferences compared to academic conferences. In academic conferences people sit quietly and listen to you, then ask questions at the end. In the *nix conferences, people seem quite happy to heckle the presenter, I've seen somebody call out "That's bullshit".

I can't find a compelling reason for a member of the audience to heckle/shout out instead of waiting until the end to raise their queries/concerns. Can anybody explain this discrepancy?

It is quite easy. At an academic conference you would expect a lecture by people who have merits. This is not the case here. It is just a dude with a microphone proposing some uneducated shit to an audience. Luckily a smarter guy turned up and set things straight. Sure it is not funny to have your incompetence exposed like Datenwolf had but i cant think of a reason why it shouldnt be spelled out.

Could Lennart be more nice? Maybe. But he did us all a favor and dismantled this shit bomb of incompetence. Personaly I like the drama because it will make the clowns do better jobs. Lennart might show up and speak the truth

On the technical side, yes. Lennart had to put many of the details that Draxinger said right, as far as the inner-workings were conserned.

On the other hand, I think the point of the whole session got kind of lost in the arguments between the two people. I undestand Lennart that he is writing software for a larger group of people, and for that he must keep the whole system more complex. The problem is that if everything is interdependent on everything, there is no way to "dumb back" the system for those who are bothered by the additional functionality (and there are many of those people too). All Draxinger is saying is that Linux should keep its software less interdependent, and if not, at least it should always work (which is clearly much more difficult).

The same way Draxinger is forgetting people with more complex needs, Lennart is forgetting people with simpler needs. Why is it bad if people get more than what they need? Because all the inherent complexity and automatism is more likely to cause annoyance. "It is free software, so don't complain" is invalid here, because Lennart is writing the kind of software that, if adopted, allows him to dictate the direction of pretty much the whole Linux ecosystem, so he is not allowed to be that "selfish".

And last, I'd like to dismiss Lennart's argument about everybody being allowed to alter his software. As Draxinger pointed it out, it won't work, because everything is too interdependent. If Draxinger wanted to supply a patch that enables network functionality for D-Bus, extending/altering it, he would have to alter all the other software too, including the login manager, the sound daemon, session/seat manager etc. All because the original plans for D-Bus were somewhat short-sighted (about not accounting for network functionality). And similarly, if somebody wants to simplify just one thing, the desktop will break. So for basically any non-trivial change, someone would have to adapt countless other software too. All because Lennart's "in control" of all the basic software (btw, I think that is what Draxinger meant when he said "... you are doing too much work").

So Draxinger might have been a little humiliated on the technical side, but I find his motivations very valid.