I had the same problem, ended up just uninstalling the MS update. Does anybody know what exactly it was that was causing the problem? I do not necessarily think that MS should feel required to test out their stuff with various popular pieces of software such as zone alarm, but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this. At the very least a warning in the update description informing users that the changes the update contains may cause this sort of an issue. Then again maybe I'm just asking too much from a company that's charging so much for their operating system.

July 14th, 2008, 08:22 AM

gore

This may not be 100% their fault but it's not like they've never broken something before with fixes. Hell just install an off the shelf version of Windows that doesn't come with your computer and you'll start to wonder why people think ANY OS is hard to install. The installer of a REAL Windows off the shelf looks a lot like any other text based one. You have t do partitions, lay them out, just like you'd do in Slackware. The only difference is not many people do that and think the installation is that recovery disk you get with some PCs when you buy them, which it's not. You use that half version of fdisk it comes with and then you have to try and find drivers for everything. I still wonder how people can say it's easier than anything else when the store bought version is actually harder to set up than any version of Linux on that shelf which has drivers ready to go for most of the stuff you're likely to have.

I still have my copy of Windows 2000 Professional that I bought off the shelf, and getting it installed and running takes HOURS because it doesn't have any drivers for the NIC, I have to find the drivers for that, and of course you can't download them since you have no network connection, because it can't find the card that came with a Windows 98SE computer years before it, and the graphics are of course crap until you get the drivers for your video card, and the sound card is the same way, so you have to do all that stuff, and then it's update time. Download, install, reboot, repeat.

In Vista is it still the same where you have to download certain updates by themselves? I know in XP some of the patches you had to do one at a time because it wouldn't allow you to download those with anything else, which just makes it take that much longer to try and do, and on the Linux end, I can walk into a shop, buy SUSE off the shelf, go home, install, and not only is my NIC working, but so is sound and graphics, especially if you have Nvidia. And downloading updates you can do all at once.... I hate freshly installing Windows. It takes way to long.

Most people only ever see the crap the restore CD has which also includes drivers for all the hardware you have, which without that, you're searching for drivers yourself.

And even if you don't use a NIC, it's not like your modem is going to just work out of the box, you have to install drivers and reboot for that too.

I can't even remember the list of crap SP2 broke. I went on a class trip to a company for a networking class and the admin told us flat out they weren't going to even try to install SP2 because of the stuff they run and checking it on test boxes it broke everything. Of course now if you don't have SP2 you're screwed anyway.

Guess that's one way to get people to buy Vista, just drop support for anyone not on SP2 even though it breaks a lot of stuff.

Oh and don't forget that once you get updates that are listed ALL installed, you have to run Windows update again because then you have MORE patches to install to fix what they broke the first time they tried to fix what they broke, and once those are installed, you have another round of patches to fix what they broke with THOSE patches. After a while, and 30 reboots, you're almost done. But then if you installed Office you have to update and do all that again for Office.

Why on God's green earth you need to reboot for patches to an Office Suite is beyond me but you have to.

Now, of course I'll get half quoted here and someone will say I'm bashing or something or other, or tell me to just not use Windows if Linux is so much better and miss what I said entirely but, before someone does, here is a hint:

I can't. I go to school, and therefore I'm forced to buy software for Windows that barely runs on my machines because of the minimum requirements, and have no say in it because for some reason, they all use Windows in their offices too. Wanna know why? They don't even know that PCs have more than Windows to use in the first place. I know, I've seen the Mac lab. People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.

July 14th, 2008, 08:54 AM

Cider

Hi there Gore

Well with Vista I jsut have problems installing one update, jsut keeps failing.

I will read up on any update before updating my box - I dont care what the update is :)

Quote:

People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.

ROFL - Ahh that made me giggle for about an hour.

July 14th, 2008, 10:06 AM

The-Spec

Quote:

but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this.

You're blind to the fact it's pretty specific to ZoneAlarm because their product is both the cause and effect.

Quote:

company that's charging so much for their operating system

Steve Jobs will sell you the "iWheel" for your eternal soul. If your lucky he'll even let you suck him off.

Quote:

I can't. I go to school, and therefore I'm forced to buy software for Windows that barely runs on my machines because of the minimum requirements, and have no say in it because for some reason, they all use Windows in their offices too. Wanna know why? They don't even know that PCs have more than Windows to use in the first place. I know, I've seen the Mac lab. People actually think that if you run a PC you have to run Windows and that nothing else will run on it even though my laptop has Linux and XP on it, they think I just found a theme for XP to make it look like Windowmaker.

No. They just don't particularly like you. But they take alot of enjoyment out of watching you squirm each time a simple computer related task is needed. And they laugh behind your back each time you turn red-faced and slam your keyboard around.

The best part is when you put the mouse to your face like a microphone and yell, "stupid compoutar! Why won't j00 workz?!"

July 14th, 2008, 11:29 AM

nihil

@greygnome

Quote:

Does anybody know what exactly it was that was causing the problem?

No, other than it had something to do with the way ZA was hooking the Windows Kernel in Win2000 and XP. The DNS problem ( not directly related to the problem, but a catalyst) was that stuff was tending to use a very limited number of ports. When MS increased the randomisation, ZA saw this as a threat, and denied internet access (I guess they hardcoded the allowed port(s)?). You will have noticed that this only happened when you applied the strictest security rules?

Quote:

I do not necessarily think that MS should feel required to test out their stuff with various popular pieces of software such as zone alarm.

Antitrust law enforcers would see that quite differently. Anyone remember the great IBM bashing sessions of the early 1980's? Basically, on its own, any operating system is about as useful as teats on a boar............. people run applications, and a free economy demands freedom of choice.

Quote:

but I do think they should be careful enough with their updates to not change something so drastically as to cause results such as this.

And the quickest and most reliable way to do that is on a test installation. Any other method would require an in-depth knowledge of a third party's product(s) which you are not allowed to modify, even if you were prepared to. That is why I expressed surprise in my earlier post (rather than outright criticism). In work environments you have "reference machines" on which you test new stuff, before rolling them out into your production environments. And I would point out that MS and ZA worked round the clock to get a fix out............. I am calling it as "one that slipped under the radar".

//joke

"I never make mistakes.............. I thought I did once, but it turned out that I was wrong" :D

I can only imagine that you don't use Windows that much so you haven't gotten a routine?

:D

Anyways, I love installing Windows........... it is probably the smell of the fresh PuTTY?

How many will actually understand that one?

July 14th, 2008, 02:25 PM

chaosclown

yeah i like installing windows too. im constantly reformatting, specially when im learning, :D. as for PuTTY, ive never used any. i wonder what i could patch with that bad boy. :ph34r:

July 20th, 2008, 03:22 PM

gore

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Spec

.No. They just don't particularly like you. But they take alot of enjoyment out of watching you squirm each time a simple computer related task is needed. And they laugh behind your back each time you turn red-faced and slam your keyboard around.

The best part is when you put the mouse to your face like a microphone and yell, "stupid compoutar! Why won't j00 workz?!"

I just saw that... Given how my weekend has gone though, I don't think it matters much. It's after 9 AM and I'm still awake from when I got up yesterday. I had to get up early and go to my cousin's Wedding and told all his friends how he's terrified of Gnomes, so they went and bought one and while driving back from the store saw a garden in someone's front lawn with like 40 of them and so they stole like 4 of them and brought them all back to the hall while my cousin and his new Wife were gone to have pictures done, and set them up on the Podium where the guy "hosting" was standing, basically right in front of where my cousin had to sit... Then put another one on his chair, and another on the gift table and one at the entrance.

He looked like he was enjoying himself until the one on the chair landed on his foot and he had to actually touch it. Good times!

Oh and I got to go pick up my Drunk Mom and Aunt who decided that "Hey we have a driver let's get hammered" and since my Mom rarely drinks at all, she was pretty much obliterated.

That ride home just couldn't go fast enough. And they thought it would be "cute" to have little bells at EVERY table in the place to ring when you wanted them to kiss since we all know no man has a hot meal at his Wedding.

Now, the humidity was at like 100%, it was hot, and just standing outside meant sweating. That gave me a huge Migraine, and then add to it my aunt was drunk ringing THREE of them... I got pissed and grabbed one from her hands and ripped the little metal piece out with my bare hands and handed it back... Which was a Kodak Moment(R) as she, being drunk, tried to ring it and didn't notice at first it was ripped out.... Which made everyone who was sober enough to not be obnoxious as crap laugh.... Yea....

Anyway where was I... Oh yes, rambling on and on about what I did that no one probably cares to hear about, yet I'm typing it so you'll read it anyway buahahahaha...

I don't use the mouse like a PA though I DO like that Dilbert cartoon too. And they probably don't have to laugh behind my back, I can hear it every time I reboot for a damned update to a media player that shouldn't need a reboot in the first place. Seriously what other OS on the planet needs a reboot for a media player? I'm no coder, but isn't that a bad idea to make a reboot necessary for an OS because Windows Media Player has another problem? Considering it came standard on Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition and I'm assuming the others too, which is dumb because a Server doesn't need media player anyway, isn't that bad and going to cause down time ?

July 20th, 2008, 05:40 PM

The-Spec

Quote:

I can hear it every time I reboot for a damned update to a media player that shouldn't need a reboot in the first place.

*Shrug* Use the policy editor to disable that then.

July 20th, 2008, 08:45 PM

nihil

Quote:

Seriously what other OS on the planet needs a reboot for a media player? I'm no coder, but isn't that a bad idea to make a reboot necessary for an OS because Windows Media Player has another problem?

No, that's the way Windows works because these things are integrated with the OS. Obviously, if applications are integrated with the operating system, it makes sense that you verify their integrity when you update them?

Run non-Windows supplied applications and all you might be asked to do is to restart the application, or you will be informed that the application will be updated next time you restart it.

As for Windows Media Player, you can uninstall it, or just not install it in the first place (custom Windows installation).

July 20th, 2008, 11:17 PM

gore

Yea, I know, I just thought it was funny the first time I installed it that it was there by default. I was like WTF is going on here, I don't think I've ever seen an admin who allows people to play movies or music on the server...