I just do not get the excuses that some players give when they loser to a so called pusher.

First of all, if you are losing to a pusher then you are not as good a tennis player as they are. They must have better hand to eye coordination than you do. That being since they can keep the ball in the court and you can not.

You obviously think you have superior stokes than they do but why do you think that? You must not have any type of decent weapon. At least not sufficient enough to bother them. Of course, with your self elevated image of yourself, you love hitting winners against your normal opponents. And of course since they have strokes like you do, you assume they play good.

It boils down to this. These days the courts are full of players who possess all the TV strokes but can not hit 5 balls in at a time. They could care less since, their self image revolves around how they look when they nail that topspin backhand down the line. Maybe one out of ten times if they are having a good day.

The so called pusher, is not impressed. All that huffing and puffing and all that extra motion just amuses them. To them that big shot you have worked on, that looks so good, is no big deal to them. If it was they would not get it back all the time.

Just to prove they are better than you try this: Just try getting your ball back in the court like they do. If that does not work then just admit it you are outclassed.

A pusher sets his goal to be the best he can be with the strokes he already has.
A hitter sets his goal to be the best he can be with the most advanced strokes he can acquire.
Who is right?
Depends on his goals.

To me this pusher, bad stroke vs hitter, superior stroke argument is natural and inherent in recreational tennis. That's because rec tennis doesn't have a clearly defined objective. It gives a lot of room for losers to come up with excuses and reason for their lose which is a natural coping mechanism.

You don't see this stupid argument in WTA and ATP because every participant is on the same page, the same mission that is to win, though there are plenty of pusher hitting style existing such as Radwanska, Murray.

So to cure this "phenomenon" that exists in rec, which is a long shot, naturally you need to get people on the same page, view or objective. If you could get people to play with real stakes like I suggest in another thread, the rule of economics will occur. That is big hitters are going to change, either to substantiate their superior strokes or stop hitting luxeriously bad shots, unless they enjoy losing their stakes.

If you could get people to play with real stakes like I suggest in another thread, the rule of economics will occur.

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In economics, there exists such a thing as violations of market principles that do not involve intervention. In tennis, how can players violate the rules?

Some players are indeed dishonest: they stretch the rules, doing something which is legal, though illegitimate. For instance, not enabling your opponent to warm up properly by trying to hit winners off every ball is not prohibited, but it's not legitimate (morally acceptable). Sometimes, they may outright cheat, making seriously bad calls. However, overall, these little efforts only rarely do a lot of damage. In an economic competition, this is all the opposite. As a businessman, I could very bluntly and legally make the market less competitive to increase my profits.

So, I would have rather used Darwinian evolution as a parallel. But, regardless, this approach is somewhat bizarre... it's too much centered on individuals when they actually do respond to a context that is provided by all other players, tennis matches, videos, instructions, etc.

It would be more appropriate to use a dialectical analysis, I think (that is, consider the interaction of individuals and their tennis community). Besides, I would also focus on culture instead of using a rationalist approach wherein people's behavior is simply asserted as the research of some optimal solution. To my sense, those you call pushers and those you call hitters do not share the same values and norms with regard to the game of tennis. For some player, maybe is learning a very formal mode of ball striking is valuable, in itself. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who values formal ball striking and who sees tennis as playing these strokes in a match... what do you see when you play a pusher? A person who doesn't play tennis. At the limit, he doesn't play by what you views as the norms of the game (using formal movements) and you sanction negatively such behaviors: you insult them, laugh, belittle their achievements, etc. You're expressing your commitment to a norm which, from what we can see, isn't shared by pushers. On the reverse, you may applaud any formal ball striking that forces you into a mistake... These comments just expresses something that is being respected or transgressed: the norm of using formal strokes.

You might not see it, but your comment also carries a peculiar tennis culture which you have internalized as yours. It colors your vision of the game and, apparently, you think that the point of tennis is to win a match. It might not have occurred to you because you probably do not enjoy the game this way, but most hours I spent on the court are either alone hitting strokes or with someone else playing rallies. I barely ever play matches and most of these situations (those when winning becomes an objective) are spent playing tie breaks. And that's how I enjoy the game. I used to be a lot less careful and patient on a court, a lot more inclined to be frustrated and to pull the trigger too soon... exactly like the archetype of your hitter who hated pushers. However, I've spent months hitting tennis balls with the goal of being able to play my game even when a pusher was on the other side. With time, effort and experience, my perspective changed. Funnily, the pushing friend I had stopped pushing once I got used to it and once I stopped being annoyed by it, but it was still worth the go.

The stroke of a pusher is merely getting the ball back. This stroke takes considerably less skill than the strokes needed by the opponent to defeat a pusher. This is the problem. This is exactly why people say pushers aren't as skilled as the opponents they beat.

To defeat a pusher (without you yourself pushing), you need a couple of quality strokes. This is why people lose. If you only have one quality stroke, you will not defeat the pusher.

To defeat a pusher by bringing them to the net, you need a decent forehand shot to get the pusher back on their heels and then a dependable drop shot or short forehand... to bring them to the net.

To defeat a pusher by running them left and right until you draw the short ball... you need a solid dependable forehand that can hit both corners... and then a solid ability to hit a short sitter.

While I don't think it is universally true that pushers aren't as skilled as their opponents... I do think it requires twice as much skill as the pusher in order to beat them.

The stroke of a pusher is merely getting the ball back. This stroke takes considerably less skill than the strokes needed by the opponent to defeat a pusher. This is the problem. This is exactly why people say pushers aren't as skilled as the opponents they beat.

To defeat a pusher (without you yourself pushing), you need a couple of quality strokes. This is why people lose. If you only have one quality stroke, you will not defeat the pusher.

To defeat a pusher by bringing them to the net, you need a decent forehand shot to get the pusher back on their heels and then a dependable drop shot or short forehand... to bring them to the net.

To defeat a pusher by running them left and right until you draw the short ball... you need a solid dependable forehand that can hit both corners... and then a solid ability to hit a short sitter.

While I don't think it is universally true that pushers aren't as skilled as their opponents... I do think it requires twice as much skill as the pusher in order to beat them.

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I agree that this makes sense in theory but the "pusher" has a much, much bigger weapon that has gone unmentioned. Namely the fragile ego of his opponent. I mean think about it. If the "pusher's" strokes are so inferior why couldn't his superior opponent just hit the same shots, just better? No, the "pusher's" opponent feels that his strokes are better than the pusher's. So he spins this story to himself that he won't stoop to the pusher's level blah, blah, blah and continuously hits "better" shots wide, long and into the net. True, he'll hold his head up high... in defeat. But an "L" is still an "L" at the end of the day.

Playing a pusher sucks all the fun out of the game. I don't care who wins--playing a pusher simply isn't fun. I play tennis for fun, which is why I avoid pushers.

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This is the other side of the coin. Pushers may win by running every ball down and bunting it back into play, but pretty soon, nobody wants to play against them. Even those who beat the pusher usually don't enjoy the experience.

Again, this gets us into a definitional issue. If you can consistently hit a topspin ball down the center of the court, you may consider yourself a pusher, but your opponents don't. You'll find plenty of people who want to play against you if you can hit a topspin shot like a ball machine.

There are already rules explicitly defined for a tennis competition and that is you hit out you lose. Follow that. As for cheating, you may be able to get away once or twice but your reputation will get around and you'll be shunned, or simply get a friend to be an umpire.

The immediate point of a match that all parties can agree on is to compete on win and lose. Everything else is your own preferences. This point is important to emphasize because without a common objective the game is really lost. I have actually witnessed that people nearly got into a fist fight and called the police when they couldn't agree on how to conduct a court time together. One guy called the other guy stupid and told him to save his dropshot attempts for a match when they were hitting ...and it escalated fast.

10s, you're an example of how rec tennis gets weird. If everyone enjoys hitting balls alone, there won't be enough courts. And how would you enjoy a rally if the other guy kept trying to hit winners or dropshots?

Playing a pusher sucks all the fun out of the game. I don't care who wins--playing a pusher simply isn't fun. I play tennis for fun, which is why I avoid pushers.

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But what do you consider a pusher?

To some players you are a pusher when you could hit two shots in a row. And where does this go when those players tell you that you suck and playing with you isn't fun? This ends up either a fist fight or no more tennis..can you imagine..an argument that destroys the very thing that it argues for.

If someone beats you, they are better than you. Sometimes we feel like we had better strokes and that they just "got it back" and won. Well, that person is better than you because they won (that's what your TRYING to do, right?).

It IS frustrating to play someone who doesn't have the same technique and beautiful shots as you but can beat you because they are more consistent. But if you can't take the heat, get outa the fire. Being good at tennis means you can adapt and beat opponents no matter what stops they pull.

The stroke of a pusher is merely getting the ball back. This stroke takes considerably less skill than the strokes needed by the opponent to defeat a pusher. This is the problem. This is exactly why people say pushers aren't as skilled as the opponents they beat.

To defeat a pusher (without you yourself pushing), you need a couple of quality strokes. This is why people lose. If you only have one quality stroke, you will not defeat the pusher.

To defeat a pusher by bringing them to the net, you need a decent forehand shot to get the pusher back on their heels and then a dependable drop shot or short forehand... to bring them to the net.

To defeat a pusher by running them left and right until you draw the short ball... you need a solid dependable forehand that can hit both corners... and then a solid ability to hit a short sitter.

While I don't think it is universally true that pushers aren't as skilled as their opponents... I do think it requires twice as much skill as the pusher in order to beat them.

playing a good pusher is better practice than hitting with a ball machine or against the wall.

not sure why players hate playing pushers so much. I would understand if they pose no challenge and people can bagel at will then it would no fun playing them but this is not the case. Most people cannot handle pushers.

And the challenge in tennis is to play against opponents who are difficult to beat not opponents who you can beat easily.

That's right. I know the problem it's mine. I'm not even one of the people that think pushers aren't real tennis players.

But I give up. I can't play against them. Don't want to. Don't know how to.

Today I had the most incredible match against a pusher I've played numerous times. I dictate the points. I am aggressive. I go for my shots. I open dome angles. I draw him in to the net. He's always defending and putting moon balls with no pace.

In today's match I was always at deuce, 30-40 or 40-30... But somehow... With all of this.. He won 6-0, 6-2. God...

This was on clay. The one time I played him on hard court I won 61, 60.

It's not the case that he's a better player. I have more strokes, fitness and power than him. The only thing he's stronger is the mental game. Never.. Not once.. I've seen this guy loose its cool or even say anything on court.

I think my game just doesn't fit. Is it just poor tactics?

Another thing: I can stay with him in most points and make him go for his shots a bit more... But it's soooo boring... It's all in slow motion. His shots just sit there.. In mid air.

It's just boring to play that way.

I give up

--------------------------------------------Here's what I think works pretty dam well.

Yes, they are quite sick people. Their goal is to make the game as boring as possible because they want you feeling like "this game is a waste of time, get me out of here"

The only effective way i went about it, was using another racquet specifically against them. A moonballer and a short/low pusher (or both) mainly has one weapon. Dying balls. Its no point trying to hit top spin groundies against them, The more they sink like a stone. The harder it is to hit through. And the more you're opponent will hope for your errors.

Put away your good hybrid or poly set up racquet. Forget about your abilities. And get something forgiving and comfy for the long haul. Something with a bit more power so you can have a slower swing. If you're fitter and faster. You're gonna win because they'll start to hate their own games and take risks. Chances are you're much fitter and faster. I've never met pusher that I couldn't outrun.

You need the wins to move up. So swallow your proud power pride (like what i had to do) and use your "B" game.

Beat them at their own game. Use a racquet with just some comfy springy synthgut and just hit back junk like them and move them around. Chop it down low if you have to. Make them bend over as much as possible. You want them hating you, and you want them to try everything they can to stop you. Then mix it up with some moonballs. They'll start moving in for an easy passing. Be sure to serve short and low. Always short and low You want them hitting up and bending so you can slam one down. Then follow up with short and low groundies. Just plod along between points. Or you can try to serve as soon as they're ready to upset their rhythm and wear them out faster. Almost give the body language like you're humoring them and that you're that much better than them. Be cheerful about it

There may be even times when you can easily end the point, sometimes it might help if you dont and make them sprint that extra 10-15 yards. Do that if you're in good position and in the lead.

Why? Because despair will set in. They'll try to hit with more pace and up the level of play to end points quickly (which you're already better at). You can always just switch to your normal racquet afterwards if you feel the need. But if it slips away. Go back to the mockery style.

Next time you play them, I guarantee that they'll try to belt the ball past you and you'll probably destroy them with your normal "A" game.

Now that I've moved up the 2 grades that I wanted to, I don't have to resort to that as much these days (the pushers aren't there). But If need be, I will.

I'll never understand why people get so worked up about pushers. Develop a net game and the match is quickly over. I don't care if a pusher has Monfils type wheels because they're not running down many short angled volleys as long as they're only pushing back approach shots. Hell, you don't even have to be that aggressive with your net positioning and can actually hang back a bit to take away the lob.

But there's the catch. People would rather bash winners from the baseline to claim GOAT status instead of finishing up at the net with an easy volley. Something deeply ingrained in the male ethos I suppose.

If you hit a ball that your opponent can't get thats in the lines or forces them into an error, chances are you win the point. Do this to a pusher, and you most likely will win the point. Do this to a pro and you will probably win the point.

If you lose a match cos you make too many unforced errors then you deserve to lose. Pushers feed on their opponent's inability to not make errors. Yet they are classed as moral cheats for not making them. More like sour grapes from the people who cant beat them....

Pushers dont have a magical ability to get to every ball. Or any more ability to get to a ball than other players. They do well to get a majority of their shots within the lines - which, from my understanding of tennis, is one of the fundamental requirements of the game to win.

So to beat pushers - hit it wide of them, force them into errors, and dont make any unforced errors. Just like any other player! The ball is coming back slower so it should be easier. Simple! If not, keep smashing it into the net and losing. Least you'll still look cool... least you'll sharpen up on making excuses on why you lost to an apparently worser player...

In economics, there exists such a thing as violations of market principles that do not involve intervention. In tennis, how can players violate the rules?

Some players are indeed dishonest: they stretch the rules, doing something which is legal, though illegitimate. For instance, not enabling your opponent to warm up properly by trying to hit winners off every ball is not prohibited, but it's not legitimate (morally acceptable). Sometimes, they may outright cheat, making seriously bad calls. However, overall, these little efforts only rarely do a lot of damage. In an economic competition, this is all the opposite. As a businessman, I could very bluntly and legally make the market less competitive to increase my profits.

So, I would have rather used Darwinian evolution as a parallel. But, regardless, this approach is somewhat bizarre... it's too much centered on individuals when they actually do respond to a context that is provided by all other players, tennis matches, videos, instructions, etc.

It would be more appropriate to use a dialectical analysis, I think (that is, consider the interaction of individuals and their tennis community). Besides, I would also focus on culture instead of using a rationalist approach wherein people's behavior is simply asserted as the research of some optimal solution. To my sense, those you call pushers and those you call hitters do not share the same values and norms with regard to the game of tennis. For some player, maybe is learning a very formal mode of ball striking is valuable, in itself. Put yourself in the shoes of someone who values formal ball striking and who sees tennis as playing these strokes in a match... what do you see when you play a pusher? A person who doesn't play tennis. At the limit, he doesn't play by what you views as the norms of the game (using formal movements) and you sanction negatively such behaviors: you insult them, laugh, belittle their achievements, etc. You're expressing your commitment to a norm which, from what we can see, isn't shared by pushers. On the reverse, you may applaud any formal ball striking that forces you into a mistake... These comments just expresses something that is being respected or transgressed: the norm of using formal strokes.

You might not see it, but your comment also carries a peculiar tennis culture which you have internalized as yours. It colors your vision of the game and, apparently, you think that the point of tennis is to win a match. It might not have occurred to you because you probably do not enjoy the game this way, but most hours I spent on the court are either alone hitting strokes or with someone else playing rallies. I barely ever play matches and most of these situations (those when winning becomes an objective) are spent playing tie breaks. And that's how I enjoy the game. I used to be a lot less careful and patient on a court, a lot more inclined to be frustrated and to pull the trigger too soon... exactly like the archetype of your hitter who hated pushers. However, I've spent months hitting tennis balls with the goal of being able to play my game even when a pusher was on the other side. With time, effort and experience, my perspective changed. Funnily, the pushing friend I had stopped pushing once I got used to it and once I stopped being annoyed by it, but it was still worth the go.

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My guess is that when one really been far even as learned once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as valuable to use even go want to do look more like

All I do with pushers is heavy, penetrating topspin to push then back, approach on the short ball, and volley the winner away. I had struggled with pushers before even at 4.5, but once you take the time to learn the tactics required to beat them, it's easy to take away their advantage. Once you show them they can't win just putting balls in play they will change their tact or lose. Time management is definitely key. Bring them to the net or you come up. Take the ball on the rise and don't allow yourself to get pushed around. Play smart tennis.

I like playing pushers because I typically get a chance to set my feet. The big ball bashers I feel like I'm always on the run trying to retrieve their shots. You also get the best exercise against a pusher. Several have mentioned coming to net to beat them. If you can hit a swinging volley out of the air, it sucks away all their time when you hit a good shot and they reply with their typical defensive lob.

I have only really ever played one legit pusher in a match. It happened to be a match where I was play testing 4 different racquets too. So it dragged on and I had a lot of UE's. He was very determined to get everything back and I just didn't have the tactics and game at the time to push my will and win the way I wanted to. It wasn't a lot of fun, which I think is where I fall on the issue.

I don't begrudge someone who wants to play a certain way, that is what makes tennis interesting. But I agree with others that the game is not as fun, it's more like a chore that you have to get done when playing a legit pusher.

I agree that this makes sense in theory but the "pusher" has a much, much bigger weapon that has gone unmentioned. Namely the fragile ego of his opponent. I mean think about it. If the "pusher's" strokes are so inferior why couldn't his superior opponent just hit the same shots, just better? No, the "pusher's" opponent feels that his strokes are better than the pusher's. So he spins this story to himself that he won't stoop to the pusher's level blah, blah, blah and continuously hits "better" shots wide, long and into the net. True, he'll hold his head up high... in defeat. But an "L" is still an "L" at the end of the day.

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That is not a weapon of the pusher. A pusher relies on the other person failing. A strategy of letting the other person fail is not a "weapon." It is a tactic, yes, but not a weapon.

And that is really simple and incorrect logic to say "why don't they hit it back, but better?" That's the whole point of pushers. To do what they do and be "better" means hitting safer and safer shots. Eventually two pushers will be lobbing the ball back and forth to each other for minutes on end (see Kerber vs Wozniacki at IW this year). It is stupid, pointless, not fun, not entertaining, and a waste of time.

I have only really ever played one legit pusher in a match. It happened to be a match where I was play testing 4 different racquets too. So it dragged on and I had a lot of UE's. He was very determined to get everything back and I just didn't have the tactics and game at the time to push my will and win the way I wanted to. It wasn't a lot of fun, which I think is where I fall on the issue.

I don't begrudge someone who wants to play a certain way, that is what makes tennis interesting. But I agree with others that the game is not as fun, it's more like a chore that you have to get done when playing a legit pusher.

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Yeah, I don't have a problem with pushing if there are real stakes to the game. But a friendly match? Who in their right mind would ever resort to pushing? Only people who want to win at all costs and suck the fun out of the game.

You can also look at the match as a practice session on consistency. I'm pretty decent at the net so I can put away shots quickly, but sometimes I will hang back and keep hitting with them just to see how consistent I can be. I guess knowing you have a weapon in your pocket helps, but I don't try to win outright from the baseline against them.

I will take a big swing at sitters and they will go out on me, but I don't get myself down and basically consider it as practice. I tell myself that eventually I will have to take the risk and take that big shot so I might as well try it now and analyze what I did wrong vs what I did right on the times it did land in. They are great to play against when you take on the mentality of a competitive practice session. You get to hit a lot of balls and you can fine tune your swings.

I don't agree with all this bashing of pushers. The true pusher has skills. They are just different from the skills you see on the ATP Tour.

A true pusher is not just someone who plays conservatively. No one is whining about a guy who feeds you balls all match. The true pusher makes you hit a series of awkward shots and forces you to take risks that are outside your comfort zone.

The pusher first and foremost can return serve. Otherwise, they get blown away. They get their own serve in, and it's usually just good enough that you can't really put them under too much pressure with your return.

Where the pusher really excels though is making you hit the shots you really don't want to hit. Moonballs, lobs over your backhand side, lobs that hit six inches from the baseline, moonballs that bounce over your head, etc, etc. You had better be able to hit a half volley from the baseline and take a swinging volley from midcourt. Otherwise, you are in for it.

Again, I say that if you do not have a weapon, do not blame your loss by calling your opponent a pusher. I do not consider myself a pusher. I hit topspin forehand, topspin and slice backhand and I try to keep the ball deep. I do however, prefer to keep the ball in play.

If my opponent had a weak backhand, or better yet, a beautiful backhand that he misses a lot, I will just hit to his backhand. Then he will hit a couple of TV shots which really have no penetration and then hit the next one 4 feet out.

Why bother risking to pass him? He can not hurt me.

Or my favorite one, is the guy who has a nice approach shot but no overhead.
I just lob and lob. These types can not hit 3 overhead in a row to save their life.

That is not a weapon of the pusher. A pusher relies on the other person failing. A strategy of letting the other person fail is not a "weapon." It is a tactic, yes, but not a weapon.

And that is really simple and incorrect logic to say "why don't they hit it back, but better?" That's the whole point of pushers. To do what they do and be "better" means hitting safer and safer shots. Eventually two pushers will be lobbing the ball back and forth to each other for minutes on end (see Kerber vs Wozniacki at IW this year). It is stupid, pointless, not fun, not entertaining, and a waste of time.

Reread my post. I didn't say that hitting high percentage shots was a weapon. I said that the fact that many, many Club player's egos are so far beyond their skill level that they feel perfectly comfortable hitting high pace shots out or in the net that they essentially help the high percentage player win faster and easier. (You don't have to call that fact a "weapon", you can call it whatever you want, but it results in more points won than most "weapons").

As an aside, if 97% of the folks on this thread could hit their groundstrokes a fraction as well as Wozniacki can, their games would improve dramatically.

That is not a weapon of the pusher. A pusher relies on the other person failing. A strategy of letting the other person fail is not a "weapon." It is a tactic, yes, but not a weapon.

And that is really simple and incorrect logic to say "why don't they hit it back, but better?" That's the whole point of pushers. To do what they do and be "better" means hitting safer and safer shots. Eventually two pushers will be lobbing the ball back and forth to each other for minutes on end (see Kerber vs Wozniacki at IW this year). It is stupid, pointless, not fun, not entertaining, and a waste of time.

I heard a lot of cheering and no boos during or after that clip so apparently many people don't agree with you.

There sure is a lot of whining and hand-wringing over the temerity of players who play the game the way they want to play it. If you don't have the mental fortitude to face any kind of player who is not resorting to gamesmanship or cheating then perhaps tennis is not the game for you?

I enjoy beating them at their own game. Great workout!
Consistent overheads, swinging volleys, and short angle ground strokes (of course be ready to pull the next ball into the open court) will usually get the job done if you are not in the mood for long rallies.

I love how he just stands there and takes a rest during the point after each shot.

Shows the deficiencies of the modern grinding topspin game, when the guy in blue can't put away any of the paceless balls that hit in the middle of the court. The shirtless guy isn't cooperating; he's not giving him chest high balls with some pace at the baseline to make the guy in blue look good.

If someone's attacking game were on, they would destroy the shirtless guy if he played like that. However, I have a feeling that he has alternative strategies in that case. He's certainly beatable, even by another 4.5, but he would be a nightmare to play in any case.

But in the first few games the blue-shirted guy wins a lot of points off unforced errors by the shirtless guy.

And the blue-shirted guy comes to net a few times and fails to finish the point, even on overheads.

In some ways, both are pushers. While the blue-shirted guy looks more "TV Like" he clearly lacks point-finishing weapons. Pretty strokes and lots of grunting, but in the first few games I didn't see him hitting winners, just enjoying points from UEs.

Later the blue-shirted guy seems to cough up more UEs, probably from fatigue. The shirtless guy is running blue-shirt all over the court while remaining calm himself and saving his energy.

But in the first few games the blue-shirted guy wins a lot of points off unforced errors by the shirtless guy.

And the blue-shirted guy comes to net a few times and fails to finish the point, even on overheads.

In some ways, both are pushers. While the blue-shirted guy looks more "TV Like" he clearly lacks point-finishing weapons. Pretty strokes and lots of grunting, but in the first few games I didn't see him hitting winners, just enjoying points from UEs.

Later the blue-shirted guy seems to cough up more UEs, probably from fatigue. The shirtless guy is running blue-shirt all over the court while remaining calm himself and saving his energy.

love the shirtless guy... the other guy deserves what he gets... deserves to lose... mindless spinny balls, no angle, no point construction, no pace, no depth, no finishing skills on sitters, a lot of grunting.

guy get's in position to hit inside out and instead of going deep cross court, or at a severe angle, hits mid court bouncing rally ball... what's the point? he grunts too.

wow even just watching this makes me annoyed. i gotta say, despite thinking im much better than both these guys, the shirtless would probably give me fits.

its clear that the blue guy really needs to work on overheads. many of these points would be over if he just took them out of the air. that being said, i think many many recreational players have crap overheads which shirtless probably exploits on a regular basis.

another thing i noticed is that he never brought shirtless to net. I'd be would be curious how he handles hi-pace shots and lobs while at net.

love the shirtless guy... the other guy deserves what he gets... deserves to lose... mindless spinny balls, no angle, no point construction, no pace, no depth, no finishing skills on sitters, a lot of grunting.

guy get's in position to hit inside out and instead of going deep cross court, or at a severe angle, hits mid court bouncing rally ball... what's the point? he grunts too.

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apparently the blue guy won (and wins regularly now)... as per the comments.

A pusher's game will likely not progress if they aren't working on strokes. If you are working on strokes and improving your game, then eventually you should beat the pusher and your game should progress.

i think its because people think they are awesome because they think they have Fed like strokes. they see a "pusher" and they think that they don't put in the work like the "hitter" does, so they think it is unfair when the pusher wins.

Pushers have simply embraced #3 because they don't feel comfortable with #1 and #2. No shame in that.

Ask yourselves this: what if you played against a big-time ball basher, a total power hitter. However, you STILL won the match due to this power hitter's unforced errors. You didn't have to hit winners, he just couldn't keep the ball in play.

would you still classify the winner as a pusher? No, even though he won the majority of his points from unforced errors.

Some matches, you don't have to hit many winners. Some matches, your opponent will hand you the match. Other times, it's not that easy.

i must be a pusher. i just dont see anything wrong with playing like that in those videos. shirtless guy seems to have found a way to not tire himself out (being able to recover in between points) while also being able to put away the ball when needed (sounds good to me). and the WTA stuff can get annoying to watch, but dang those deep high balls can be an aggressive play in itself.

the argument of "oh they would get killed by x player".... DUH!

any person with any playing style will get beat by someone BETTER THAN THEM. just doesn't make sense.

I think we should leave the Pushers alone. I met a Pusher the other day and he was Depressed. He said " That is all I know how to do, and I beat a lot of players",,,,,"That is all I can do, What can I say ??" "Maybe I should take up Golf instead......."

I just do not get the excuses that some players give when they loser to a so called pusher.

First of all, if you are losing to a pusher then you are not as good a tennis player as they are. They must have better hand to eye coordination than you do. That being since they can keep the ball in the court and you can not.

You obviously think you have superior stokes than they do but why do you think that? You must not have any type of decent weapon. At least not sufficient enough to bother them. Of course, with your self elevated image of yourself, you love hitting winners against your normal opponents. And of course since they have strokes like you do, you assume they play good.

It boils down to this. These days the courts are full of players who possess all the TV strokes but can not hit 5 balls in at a time. They could care less since, their self image revolves around how they look when they nail that topspin backhand down the line. Maybe one out of ten times if they are having a good day.

The so called pusher, is not impressed. All that huffing and puffing and all that extra motion just amuses them. To them that big shot you have worked on, that looks so good, is no big deal to them. If it was they would not get it back all the time.

Just to prove they are better than you try this: Just try getting your ball back in the court like they do. If that does not work then just admit it you are outclassed.

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No need to get a bunch of balls over the net or hit hard, just soft and low up the middle of the court and then try to pass me (you'll have to supply the pace) or lob me. Good luck.

I think we should leave the Pushers alone. I met a Pusher the other day and he was Depressed. He said " That is all I know how to do, and I beat a lot of players",,,,,"That is all I can do, What can I say ??" "Maybe I should take up Golf instead......."

He seemed Really Down...............

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I agree. We shouldn't get mad at them, we should respect his or her game. We all have our "go to" methodologies that we use to win. As long as you aren't cheating, then it shouldn't matter how you win. We all play "amateur" tennis, after all.

Funny how people here hate playing pushers but most pushers do not like to play me lol. I am a former pusher before I developed into all court/junker player. I can hit hard and love bashing on the baseline but will bring out my slice and dice game just to throw of my opponents.

When I come across a pusher, I will make sure to give this pusher a workout of his life. I am quick and in great shape and love grinding people down. Most people will try to run a pusher side to side but sometimes that is his/her strength. I will try to run them side to side and also turn on my slicing game and pull a pusher to the net and lob...most pushers tend to lack of overhead skill. I don't go for a big shots from the beginning because I want a pusher to know that I'm here to battle and ready for a workout (mind game).

I will also chip-charge and make sure to get ready for a lob. You need to throw in many verities of shots just to make sure not to let them get into any pattern or rhythm. Also it is a great way to find out his/her weakness. We all know they are great at retrieving and thrive on your mistakes.

Calling someone a pusher has really become a code for saying "I LOST".Why not call someone a really horrible name like "serve&volleyer" or Just "another topspiner".As some have said it really does get out of control at the rec. level and even higher.I guess it isn't discussed much at the pro level because the losers either find a way or get tired of collecting smaller checks.As I said in another thread we had a player who constantly called others pushers and then in a match he won was called just another pusher.Be careful who you call a pusher.

People seems to think that "pusher" can only play one style. That's ignorant!

I've seen a guy playing around 5.0 level (a vert good player with many tournament victories) and play like a pusher at times. He knows how to hit a winner when needed but he mostly try to hit the ball high. He has exceptional stamina and knows how to play net game (very good double player too)

I used to hit the ball hard before, but now I try to develop a "pusher" game because I find that hitting the ball high is a simple way to finish most of the low level players and still preserve most of my stamina, which is extremely helpful when playing in tournament.

When you lost to someone with good defensive skill and call them "pusher", just remember that Nadal also employ a pusher-like game at times to soften off his opponent.