I’m probably going to wind up making knitting nemeses or something by posting this, but I just came home from the weirdest Stitch ‘n’ Bitch of my entire life. Dude.

I’d been to this particular group once before. I’d made plans to meet up there this week with turtleknitter (Mary)–we were going back and forth between either meeting up on Thursday or going to the S’n’B tonight (Wednesday) to see the musician they’d booked. Apparently he’d come to play once before and a lot of people liked his show. Having listened to some clips on his MySpace page, I said I was interested in going to see him, so Wednesday it was.

I almost cancelled–I had a bunch of work to do by EOD today (spent a couple of hours finishing it up once I got home from knitting)–but decided no, I should make the effort to go see some live music and meet some new people.

The S’n’B is held in a very large local cafe with lots of different rooms. The concert was in a room all the way in the back. When I arrived, people were sitting around four tables arranged in a circle; on the other side of the room was a stage with folding chairs set up in front. I sat down, started chatting to the people around me, and not long after that it was time for the music to get going. The organizer of this S’n’B asked if we should perhaps either move to the chairs in front of the stage, or move the tables forward so they all faced the stage. Since yarn and coffee was already spread out everywhere, there wasn’t a lot of enthusiasm about either idea, and the musician ended up just sitting at a chair at the circle of tables.

He requested that perhaps we could all stop talking and quietly listen while he played, if that would be OK. I have to admit I was kind of put off by this, since I had come to the S’n’B pretty much specifically to socialize, and the postings about the concert hadn’t really made it clear that we weren’t supposed to talk at all. I guess I’m not sure whether the default at a concert should be talking or not talking, but I’ve been to a lot of coffeehouses over the years, worked in one in high school, and I’ve never been to one that demanded absolute silence from the audience. Usually the normal background activities go on during the music–talking, drinking coffee, studying, working–and if the musician is really good, people will shut up and listen.

The woman next to me kept talking to me and showing me her knitting. I admired (she had some great fingerless mitts made from Rowan Scottish Tweed Chunky in a deep purple color, and a newly finished merino hat) and after the first song, we were admonished again by the musician: “please, it would be really helpful if you would not talk while I’m playing, it’s really, really distracting.”

“Well, it’s not like you even wrote that song yourself,” said the woman next to me (he’d just played a cover song).

“Well, this one is one I wrote myself,” he said, and went on playing.

So we sat quietly for a while and listened to the music. Mary came in, and sat down across from me–I sneaked over and gave her the skein of handspun I’d been saving for her:
(posed below alongside my new Sundara yarn:)
Mary had given me a huge chunk of this delicious purple Miss Babs BFL batt at our last spinning meet-up, so I thought it would be nice to give her the squooshy, lofty, pretty Navajo-plied handspun that the batt became. (As it turns out, it was great timing, since it was her birthday on Monday and I didn’t know! Happy birthday, Mary!)

I admired the mittens she was making vewy, vewy quietly and then went back to my seat.

The musician played a cover of “Androgynous,” by the Replacements, which I appreciated, and a fun song about sneakers. He apologized if he had sounded bitchy earlier, and told us he had been to Africa and “it’s amazing how it changes your life.”

After a bit, the musician took a break, and the organizer made an announcement that anyone who felt like talking should go into the other room before the music started up again. “It’s not just distracting for him to play, it’s distracting for us, who want to listen.”

I may be misquoting a little here, but this is the gist of what happened next:

The musician called out to the woman next to me, “You should try working on your attitude!”

She retorted, “Well, you should try working on your singing!”

He started talking about how his singing might be an acquired taste, and maybe you would have to have refined tastes and appreciate music in order to like it.

The organizer said to the woman next to me, “Go fuck yourself!”

And about half of us trooped off into the Talking Zone and the rest of the room arranged themselves adoringly before the musician for the rest of his set.

So, yeah. We got kicked out of the S’n’B for being too loud. And the organizer swore at us. It was really weird. Now I’m kind of afraid to go back! It wasn’t even that I was trying to make a statement about the music, or identify myself as a troublemaker… actually, I thought the guy’s music was nice; he sings and plays the guitar well. It was just that I came to S’n’B for socializing in general, and Mary and I had specifically made plans to meet up there to chat, and neither one of those goals was being met by the concert setup. But now I think I may have been blacklisted.

I also found out afterwards that the organizer is engaged to the musician, which would explain a lot about the interpersonal dynamics there.

It was just a very, very odd experience all around.

Amusingly enough, one of the people who left the room with us was an anthropology student who had come to the meeting because she had to write a paper about a group of people, and she had chosen to come observe a group of knitters in action. She had expected to write a fairly boring paper about a standard Stitch ‘n’ Bitch session–looks like she hit the anthropology jackpot.

On the bright side, I’m now about 4 inches into both sleeves for my Flicca coat. Soon, cuddly sweater coat goodness will be mine! I’ll have to decide soon if I want to close it with buttons or a belt or leather toggles (I’m leaning towards toggles, but I think they’ll be the most trouble to locate). It is pretty gigantic and heavy already (10 skeins in) and I can only imagine how heavy the versions on Ravelry knit in Rowan Yorkshire Tweed Chunky must be–I have both yarns in my stash, and RYC Soft Tweed seems pretty airy and lofty, while Yorkshire Tweed Chunky is much heavier and denser. I did the math and ten yards of RYC Soft Tweed weigh 5.7 grams, while ten yards of Yorkshire Tweed Chunky weigh 9.17 grams!

Edited to add a few corrections to clear things up as per some comments made by the organizer (Mackenzie), since it looks like I did misquote:

The person who was talking was talking loudly and yes, her comments were rude. I think that was already clear from the description of what she said, but just in case that wasn’t, there you go. I also missed reporting an additional bitchy/sarcastic exchange between her and the musician, which you can read about in Mackenzie’s comments below

I was wrong; it wasn’t the organizer who said “go fuck yourself,” but the person sitting next to her.

I accidentally gave the impression that the Africa comment had to do with asking people to be quiet, which it didn’t. I was just summing up the different things he said during the first part of the set. It was unrelated banter between songs and had to do with the content of one of the musician’s songs.

Mackenzie wasn’t the one who organized the show; the owners of the cafe did that.

Woah. That’s ever weirder than that time we were shushed and trooped out of stupid Rachel’s. And that thing about Africa was just…bizarre. It sounds like the organizer person just wanted people to listen to her fiance because she thinks he’s wooooonderful. Bleh.

I think you and Mary and the other nice people in your group should start your *own* knitting group.

Very weird concert for a coffee shop, agreed. Also possibly a weird choice of venue for SnB though… I hafta say, I generally prefer to go to knitting groups where the surroundings are pretty quiet (so I can hear people talk), but not too quiet (so I can talk myself).

Still, not as bad as the London S&B group’s recent experience in a bar where they were very, very rudely treated by the manager – including being openly mocked – on account of apparently not suiting the bar’s trendy image. (Bear in mind knitting in public is still far less commonly seen here than in the US. And of course the group comprises women of all ages. Quelle horreur!)

Hahaha- Sounds like that pretentious coffeehouse musician was a real pain. What kind of narcissistic tool demands entire silence? Stuff like that is earned, not demanded from strangers just because you’ve ‘been to Africa’. Yeesh. And obviously the owner is no winner, either!

I don’t go to S n B very often, but when I do, I repfer the ones held in the yarn stores. I never could figure out why until I read this post!

I was going to make a poetry-reading joke, but chemgrrl and Norma both beat me to it…. Very odd. You could always drive back down here every other week…. We miss you and your scissors. I had to bring my own last night. 🙂

Ugh…that is just bizarre! I was put off of organized SnB’s when two friends and I showed up at one in a bar in San Francisco and were completely ignored the whole time. I mean, I don’t need my hand held, but I found it odd that a) no one looked up when we arrived, b) no one acknowledged us when we attempted to introduce ourselves, c) no one moved to make space for us around the table, and d) we complimented one girl on her Clapotis and she made a funny face and looked away. WTF?!

So. very. weird. I don’t understand the connection between Africa and the need for silence. I hope the fellow understands that if he continues to play, perhaps at venues where the organizer is not his fiance, people will make noise whether he can concentrate or not. Being able to talk is the whole point of Stitch n’ Bitch, to my mind. I can knit and listen to music in solitude at home. When I get together with other knitters, we don’t shut up.

I have few friends who knit so I’d like to socialize with a SnB group but I joined a Yahoo group for my city and was so put off by the tenor of their messages that I never even attended a meeting.

However, my public library is very knit friendly [they have a knit book club and a knit movie night] and their knitting classes are so popular that they always have waiting lists. I sign up for as many of those as possible and I find having the common goal of the class project seems to keep us on the same page regarding socializing and knitting.

And I have a wonderful LYS that encourages people to sit and knit any time — and have monthly pajama parties [start when the store closes and goes til midnight with people bringing goodies to share].

I was impressed at the idea of a SnB group that arranges music performances until you said that he was the organizer’s boyfriend. I wonder if it was their way of helping him fulfill an arts degree requirement of performing recitals in front of an audience?

This is ridiculous. I’ve been to Africa, and I didn’t come back an asshole, so he can keep that excuse.

It’s weird to read this today, when last night at our knitting meet-up a man was set up to do a reading from his book. He didn’t ask for silence, but he did talk on a microphone, which effectively silenced most people. One large group even left.

Before he began we politely moved over and informed him that we had met to talk. He didn’t seem to mind and even gave us some bookmarks and a cheerful goodbye on his way out.

Ok, this is just too hilarious. I think I would have snickered the whole time. And probably would have gotten the boot! Sure you don’t wanna come back to the Harmony knitters? 😉 I promise we won’t make you be quiet!

We asked people who were talking to move to the other room AFTER he’d resumed playing and the person in question was talking so loudly it was hard to hear.

At that point, people started packing up, so the musician thanked everyone for coming and said he hoped they’d enjoyed the music. The talky woman then said “oh totally” in a very sarcastic tone, and the musican said “wow.. somehow i don’t quite believe you” The talky lady then retorted with something else in a nasty tone I couldn’t quite make out, and the musician said “maybe you’d enjoy it more if you adjusted your attitude”

and then what took the cake is that talky lady said right out loud “maybe if you’d work on your singing! you suck”

and that was when the go eff yourself comment came out. this woman had sat through a show we’d scheduled and talked and talked and then had the nerve to insult the musician when asked to leave the room or be quiet.

in my opinion she was one of the rudest people i’ve ever met, hands down, and her incessant yapping and negative attitude ruined the whole night for everyone. this musician has played for us before and that night was great.

and it may also be worth noting that i didn’t actually organize the show. the owner of escape did that, but when we sat in the back before, it got rave reviews and i assumed people would be interested in seeing it again.

no one was forced to sit there and listen if they didn’t want. i don’t know why anyone wanting to socialize didn’t just go talk in a different room…

ugh.. and lastly, if you’d been listening he was telling the story about africa because the song he had just sung was ABOUT his trip to africa. he wasn’t talking about it in anyway that was related to wanting people to not talk over him.

Despite all of the weirdness that went down last night between the various factions (I was so totally feeling like Switzerland), it was great to see you!!!!!! That coat you are working on is going to be gorgeous! Wonderful for the weather we are about to find ourselves up to our eyeballs in. And thank you again for the handspun skein of squishy wooly good. I love it. Love. It. It is simply gorgeous and well spun. Here’s to better kinder knitting environments in our future!

I have a lot of things I want to say in response to your post, so I’ll try to be succinct and not too confusing! I hope you make it to the end of my looooong comment 🙂

First of all, I want to apologize for your having a negative experience at SNB. I have been in this group for over two years, and this is the first incident of “drama” that I can recall.

Second of all, it was I, not Mackenzie (the organizer), who told S. (talky lady/woman next to you) to go fuck herself. I said it because I couldn’t believe she insulted P.’s (the musician’s) singing. It isn’t easy to perform in front of a crowd, and to heckle someone in something that’s supposed to be a safe space is, I think, unconscionable. But don’t blame Mackenzie — I was the one who said it, not her.

Anyway, I don’t think the idea was ever to have or demand “absolute silence.” As I saw it, it wasn’t for me to decide; P. was the one playing and I wanted to respect his wishes. I felt a little badly for those who came to SNB without knowing that a musician would be playing, but I figured they’d just realize that they would be able to do the chatting bit next week and the week after that and so on. So I was surprised that, even after P. requested quiet, S. kept talking pretty much incessantly, which, by the way, I think is a whole different animal than a comment here or there. I doubt anyone would have had a problem with the latter. But really, I thought everything was pretty polite and copacetic until S. replied so snidely to P. thanking her (and the rest of the leaving people) for coming. As *I* recall, it went like this:

P: Thanks for coming. Hope you enjoyed the music!
S: (sarcastically) Oh, totally! You were really nice.
P: Thanks, so were you. By the way, I didn’t really believe you when you said that.
S: Yeah, that happens to me all the time.
P: Then maybe you should work on your attitude.
S: Maybe you should work on your singing!
Me: Go fuck yourself (oops)

As I saw it, S. invited the “work on your attitude” comment by suggesting that people often think she’s insincere. Where the “work on your singing” bit came from, I have no idea. I thought it was beyond rude. But nobody had a problem with you or anyone else who was there besides S. So I hope you come back.

And finally, or those of you who are put off by the idea of an SNB at which talking is not encouraged, please understand two things:

1. This is a VERY rare occurrence and
2. Escape Java Joint is a HUGE coffee shop with multiple rooms. Anyone who wanted to talk and/or not listen to the music could have moved to a different room, including the usual SNB space, at any time.

Orata, thank you for sharing… I just love drama. Especially drama in which no one actually bleeds.

Wow. Now I have to figure out how to set up something similarly fascinating here. Though that would require having a night at work that wasn’t totally insane so that I could actually, you know, ATTEND SnB first.

This was pretty accurate the first time around, and good on you Orata, but don’t let other people dictate your own truth. You should not be coerced into changing facts just because the S&B-ers decide you should.

You were sitting right next to me, I’m sure you would have noticed if I was out of line without provocation. It’s not obvious why, but I was singled out in this situation. None of us were more or less loud than the other. Maybe it’s the echo in the room.

I will admit to responding in kind to the sarcasm of the musician. I was taken aback by his rudeness and apparent anger towards me from the start. I still am not sure why he seemed so threatened by me but that’s his own chip on the shoulder and has nothing to do with me.

It seemed to me that everyone was pretty respectful (including me) and kept things very low key except when baited and goaded by that mediocre musician. Yes, mediocre. It’s hard to endure a howler who only uses farmer chords and rips off other musicians. Really – the world has more than open E, C, and G. Really.

Anyway, if a person can’t play a normal coffeehouse audience without losing his shit then that doesn’t bode well for his musical future.

When Mackenzie said the “bitchers” should leave, EVERYONE at the table got up to leave. Quietly. I didn’t say ONE word as I packed up to go.

When the musician began taunting me from the stage I felt that it was only fair to give it back to him. If he couldn’t let me walk out without verbal abuse then he deserved everything he got. He *should* work on his singing. If he hadn’t started giving me shit as I left I’d never have said it.

I never said “you suck,” but maybe I should have now that it’s being said. I was told to go fuck myself…”seriously.”

If I hadn’t given into peer pressure to stay there, to quote Mackenzie “so it doesn’t seem like he’s playing to no one,” then I’d have just walked back out into the other room and been fine with it. I felt sorry for the guy so I stayed. That didn’t last long once I experienced his personality.

I was present and agree with Shelly’s report. I have never been to a S&B where silence was demanded. This was held in a very large room WITH A STAGE. Why the singer felt the need to set himself at our table is beyond me, it was rather intrusive. The room was large enough that had he started on the stage I am sure all would have worked out well. I really didn’t get the Africa thing either??!?? Good for him?
It was also my first time at this one and I was rather put off since when we arrived I introduced myself and basically got stares from the “organizer” and company –I’m a friendly person and this was definitely an uncomfortable situation to be in.
As for the talking during the preformance, I can see that an inexperienced performer might have a problem keeping on track, may I suggest perhaps singing in his bedroom, perhaps in front of a mirror with the radio(or TV) playing in the background??? This might help him overcome his fear of background noise–just trying to help:)

First: There is a conspiracy of Silence about this Shelly person’s conduct. She was heckling that poor hot-looking sensitive musician from the get-go! I mean srsly, it was all, “knit one, purl two, FREE BIRD!!!” OK I like leonard skynyrd as much as the next girl but there is nothing as insulting as asking a musician for FREE BIRD. It was totaly rude.

Second: Africa makes me hot. Everyone is pretending that that’s not how it is for them.

Third: I think Leanna and mackenzie are being very gracious that they don’t talk about how the Entire Stitch and Bitch crew went off into chants of “WHERES MY COFFE BITCH” when the poor hot looking musician tried to tell them to be quiet. He is not a waiter people!!!! They don’t even have waiters at the Escape!!!

Wow, sounds like a really bad experience all around! Suggestion: perhaps check out MeetUp.com for groups in your area, or…scope out a local coffee house like Panera or Starbucks to see if they would let your group meet there? I started a group at Panera and the management is really nice to us, bringing us free bakery samples occasionally! (we’re NOT a quiet group, but we all have a great time knitting/crocheting, talking, eating/drinking, more talking, etc.). Hope your future ‘adventures’ are much nicer.
“grammiepammie”