PulseAudio to be replaced by Pipewire

After all the shit design, shit implementations, and broken audio involved with PulseAudio, they're just gonna be starting over from scratch anyway, and now we're gonna have this new shit called PipewireNot even fucking kidding.pipewire.org/

afaik it's not made by Poettering himself, but it's a Redhat project.I think it's a weird combination of gstreamer, PulseAudio, and JACK.To be honest, i'm not entirely against the idea of bringing PulseAudio and JACK together, but why in the fuck does video have to be involved now?

PipeWire is Free Software and is developed in the open. It was created by Wim Taymans, Principal Engineer at Red Hat and co-creator of the GStreamer multimedia framework.Wim Taymans sounds like a white background character in a Japanese video game.

Containers, apparently. Forwarding X and audio from containers without compromising security is not entirely trivial, this could make things easier. Imagine using higher-risk stuff like internet browser from secure container with no hassle. Seeing as it's redhat working on it, I'm afraid it's gonna be botched, but since it's not Mr. L. working on it, it might just not end up being shit.

Seeing as it's redhat working on it, I'm afraid it's gonna be botched, but since it's not Mr. L. working on it, it might just not end up being shit.yeah redhat's usually shit, but occasionally has a good idea or two, like libvirt.

I'd say if they pick up the difficult parts from jack, there's a chance it will actually be the rare case when it's gonna be widespread thanks to being good as opposed to being widespread thanks to being not-quite-as-bad-or-user-unfriendly-as-everything-else.

Flatpak is a new application distribution format they're making that will allow for the easier management of desktop apps.For example, you get Chrome as a flatpak, and it will be in a sandboxed container with all the dependencies bundled.I think it's supposed to be like how proprietary Windows and Mac software comes with all the libraries and shit it needs bundled with it.I guess their plan is for this new pipewire system to be able to more effectively handle sound and video coming to/from these sandboxes.

I think it's supposed to be like how proprietary Wangblows and Mac software comes with all the libraries and shit it needs bundled with it.Yes, MacOS ``apps'' are actually folders, which is easier for the layman to wrap their head around when downloading consumer software.I guess their plan is for this new pipewire system to be able to more effectively handle sound and video coming to/from these sandboxes.That is not the reason why pipewire exists.

I guess their plan is for this new pipewire system to be able to more effectively handle sound and video coming to/from these sandboxes.

That is not the reason why pipewire exists.Yes it literally is. A major motivation for PipeWire was an abstraction layer so that sandboxed applications didn't have to be aware of audio or video drivers... which means interfacing with libGL to avoid multi-vendor hell on the Flatpak side.

This is exactly what I wanted to ask.also looked at the github issues and it seems like the devs are not clinically retarded like lennart is, they actually seem to take issues into consideration and act upon them instead of EWONTFIXing everything.Overall, mite b cul/10. A replacement for pulseaudio is long overdue, I've been on alsa for a while now since pulse has shit audio quality and still bugs out to this day. But the lack of per-application sound control is pretty annoying.

Wim Taymans sounds like a white background characteri wouldn't say white, i think he's spanish. "Belgian national based in Barcelona, Spain"en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wim_TaymansBelgian national doesn't mean anything since none of the EU countries have borders anymore.

There isn't much on him, he had social media at some point but hasn't updated any of them in 5+ years, he appears to have abandoned them but left them up.

So is the case for most people.There are legitimate cases to be made against PulseAudio. There are some circumstances were Jack or even ALSA is better; but most of the criticism on *chan boils down to:muh UNIX way (even though the operating system is literally called GNU is Not Unix)it didn't work on my Arch install and wrapping my head around sound in GNU/Linux was too difficult so I decided to uninstall it instead of trying to fix it (even though the point of Pulse is to make it easier for the end user and the point of Arch is to be a clusterfuck)a bunch of buzzwords and memes thrown togetherFor most case scenarios Pulse is good and works good.

Belgian national doesn't mean anything since none of the EU countries have borders anymoreEach country still requires visas to stay in. The "free movement" is about not having to wank off at the border with all of it's kinds of arbitrary waits, checks, and regulations.

Pulseaudio has always worked on my machines I used in on too. But it uses like 1-4% proccessing power when idle, which is literally more then my web browser. So I switched to entirely ALSA to avoid the botnet.PipewireIt's a fucking botnet. This is because it is abstracting pulse, alsa, OSS, opengl pre 3 and post 3, DRI2/3, Glamor, KMS, and fucking whatever openbsd/freebsd uses. It's also made by redhat. They would have to design it to be modular so you could compile out what you don't need to abstract per instance. Ontop of the fact that if they are going for wayland usage they are going to have to abstract every wayland compositor's functions which will increase bloat per window manager they support. Also assuming you don't get a won't fix for certain untained by (((them))) wayland compositors.pulsegoodPick one, OSS did what pulseaudio did with the performance of ALSA and still performed better then ALSA.This.Pulseaudio has no usecase now. Use alsa if you need exotic bluetooth audio devices with multiple outputs. If you want software mixing of audio for things like recording and karoke use JACK with alsa. If you want all the features of pulseaudio without download jack for ALSA then install OSS drivers if your audio card is supported by them. I won't deny that pipewire is a step in the right direction for being rid of pulseaudio, but adding video to the mix is only for (((them))) and for vidya.

There is nothing wrong with putting all software settings into software's directory along with folders instead of evenly smeared configs across /etc, /bin/usr/etc, /usr/etc, /home/user and so on.

There is nothing wrong with supplying software with containerized set of dependencies, on a desktop of course, not an embedded router woth 1mib ROM. Supplying dependencies prevents package management struggles and dependency hell. NixOS is going in the right direction.

However, RedHat are capitalist jews that write shitware to sell their useless (((certificates))) and tech support to end users since selling free software is really pointless with today's broadband speeds, they decided to complicate the software and system administration procedures up to Microsoft's level. See, modern Gnome/systemd distros boot slower than even windows 10 out of the box, not joking, true story.

There is nothing wrong with putting all software settings into software's directory along with folders instead of evenly smeared configs across /etc, /bin/usr/etc, /usr/etc, /home/user and so on.It makes sense in a single user system (Windows (multi user is a hack that shits itself frequently)), but it's better to have global and local configs in a multi-user system (UNIX).

When was the last time you've seen a "multi-user" "Unix" system being used as multi-user, not an abstraction for single-user application permission control, or a web server that does all the user-management itself? Multi-user systems are the reason we have "cloud" cancer. Multi-user systems are not needed for most computing appliances.

SDF has a couple dozen active users, tops, and runs NetBSD. It's the past, not the future, and it's an utterly miniscule representation of internet users, operating system users, computer users, and any other metric you can measure. I'm an ARPA member and even I think it's largely a relic.

my dad works at nintindo, the postProof or get out as a liar without an arguement. Single user is indeed cancer for large organizations and servers. But has its uses in a terminal for plebs. Yet not one person has developed a microkernel OS around such a concept that isn't shit or non-FOSS.

Security is critical though, and multi-user lets you do privilege separation. With old 80's computers it didn't matter so much, even without memory protection. Back then you could just power-cycle the machine and return to factory state. Now you have malware that digs into your firmware and hides itself where the OS can't see.And security has been a big concern on Internet servers since the mid 90's at least, when the buffer overflow exploits became widespread. Cloud shit came much later.

Only through manual specification. So every time you open an application, instead you should wrap it with an alsa sound-source redirection, but only after manually writing to the alsa.conf to add that sound source. You should rtfm instead of being retarded.

How is it that Microsoft can get away with using the same sound API for 20+ years yet Linux has to have a new one that's total shit every 2-3 years? At this point, why not just admit not having a clue and copy Microsoft's? Putting a real-time buffer in userspace was never going to fucking work and the novelty of watching people try and fail wore off before most of you were born.

When was the last time you've seen a "multi-user" "Unix" system being used as multi-userLiterally today.ltsp.orgwiki.x2go.org/

I give my friends unprivileged shells on my colocated Debian system, and since I have x2goserver running, they can even use it as a remote desktop. I've also previously run a telnet/ssh BBS on a Linux system. My record was six simultaneous human users plus me.

Worst part is another superior operating system did this already: Solaris! It lives on today as Illumos kernel and OpenIndiana project. Joyent's SmartOS and SDC is the best FOSS hypervisor and pop-up cloud you can find. Once hardware is installed and wired up, it's only a matter of an hour or two with SDC before you have a live cloud. Solaris Zones were invented about a decade ago, yet Linux is STILL trying to ape them and BSD jails still haven't surpassed them despite jails being the project Sun was motivated to duplicate in Solaris.

SPARC-platform second hand servers are going for cheap on eBay right now. SPARC is the native architecture for Solaris. SPARC also relies on OpenFirmware rather than kiked EFI. Not sure if SPARC was immune to Spectre or Meltdown, but chances are good SPARC and POWER+PowerPC were being that they were independent designs unless they leased rights to Intel's IP to use the vulnerable components.

There is nothing wrong with supplying software with containerized set of dependenciesHave fun trying to secure such a system where no one's maintaining a million copies of a million versions of the same library on your system with a vuln.

try ossmuddled sound (about midway between alsa and pulseaudio)can't play sound in webmsfuck that shit. I have no clue how it's possible for a sound system to work but only with specific media formats. Somehow, it's a well-known issue and hasn't been addressed in years though.

PulseAudio broke Linux audio for like a decade. After a decade of turd polishing it has finally started to work well. And now they're gonna write another PulseAudio, and break Linux audio for another decade.

What is wrong with these people? Code does not rust, it does not go bad or spoil. Why do that act like it does?

muddled soundWith what application? VLC works just fine with it. Same for my audio player.can't play sound in webmsThat's a lie, its just how you set it up. I can play sound in webm's just fine you faggot. Did you forget to adjust settings under ossmixer? Are you using crapware like firefox with it instead of something else? Do you even have libsalsa set up properly?

I haven't been using Linux for a few years now, but wasn't it only just recently becoming common for distros to come with Pulse instead of ALSA?Pulse operates on top of--not instead of--ALSA on all of the distros with which I'm familiar.

The answer to your question is no. Fedora started using Pulseaudio as their default sound system in 2007, and Ubuntu did the same in 2008. Fedora and Ubuntu and their derivatives constitute the vast majority of desktop Linux installs.

pulseaudio is very much undesirable by my experiencewhen trying to get a mic working, the mic was not muted, but it still wouldn't pick up soundafter playing with settings, i got the mic to work, but the speakers wouldn't work, which is necessary for dubbing and monitoring dubsit took me in all less than an hour to eventually get it to read input from the mic and output data to the speakers,but really what makes pulseaudio stand out on its design philosophy, there is no quit button or quit menu item to select in pavucontrol, so you are dependent either on the close button of your preferred wm or know by experience the common keyboard combination for closing the program

but why in the fuck does video have to be involved now?Wayland is so restrictive you need something like this just to run software like OBS or scrot. It's not "pulseaudio for video", it's DRM for screenscraping.

There's this weird proprietary HP setting from this third party software that you can use to help you configure ALSA that always comes up when you need automatic headphone detection. That's all I know, I'm not really that good at the internals of linux

nothing works automatically with alsanothing works automatically with ossnothing works automatically with pulseworks automatically with sndiodrealy maeks you thinkStop using shitware and it will just work

I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Cux, is in fact, GNU/Cux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Cux. Cux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many cucks run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Cux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU cuckoldry, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Cux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Cux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the cuckoldry processes of our Cucklord, Richard Stallman. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Cux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Cux added, or GNU/Cux. All the so-called “Cux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Cux.

Second hand sparcs are where it's at. Seriously, 120 bucks will get you a fun hobby rig. Actual usability? Pretty good, just get used to compiling all your stuff. They are loud so make sure you have good fans and a chassis that will fit their proprietary board designs, unless you like the primal screach of 6 40mm fans.

From a security perspective, separating the files itself into different partitions is a drastic security improvement to prevent container escape, rather then some virtualized shit form of dockerpajeet code to do so. Can't access/change files from a specific attack vector if you don't have access. If it's all bundled together it becomes significantly easier to priv esc out of some shitty container.

Can't wait. Honestly I'm tired of whatever is in charge of audio on Linux.call someonemicrophone and headphone signals get mixed up sometimes. Anyone I'm talking to now hears the audio output of my OS while they don't hear me (input), but I still hear them fine. Have to kill the process and re-call the person to fix this.

try discord on Linuxloud artifact buzzing sounds whenever something is being outputhave to open a software which outputs sound, play media/sound, then close it (example, a browser) then artifacts are gone. This doesn't even always work. Sometimes this is randomly fixed within a minute or two and I still have no idea what's causing it or fixing it at least.

microphone and headphone signals get mixed up sometimes. Anyone I'm talking to now hears the audio output of my OS while they don't hear me (input), but I still hear them fine. Have to kill the process and re-call the person to fix this.If you are using pulse audio, you can just use pavucontrol to select the correct microphone.

For me it always picked the wrong device or managed to break so hard that shit wouldn't start properly at random, even a fresh reinstall of pulseaudio wouldn't fix it. Not only that I had weird sound crackling and a really shitty bass when using it. This is some years back for those reasons never used it again. Just ALSA works fine for me.

Pulseaudio has a habit of exposing faulty ALSA drivers. When running ALSA directly, there seems to be no problem but when run through PA, all kinds of problems reveal themselves. This is a good thing because it leads the driver writers to look into the driver to improve the drivers making them work better with or without PA.

That could very well be but when PulseAudio shits up like a kid on a minefield I wouldn't touch it. Again, haven't used it in years so the problems I have might have been fixed, I just couldn't care less nowadays.

ALSA is a direct part of Linux. Everything that's in the current version of Linux is guaranteed to have a maintainer looking at it. You can find Linux drivers for the most obscure hardware working today simply because there is a maintainer willing to dedicate his time to it.

Mumble has this too. I couldn't take a screenshot while the drop down menu is open (don't know why but this is how Xfce behaves), but it allows me to select ALSA, OSS and PulseAudio. I'll try using ALSA directly from now on and see if discord also has this option. If not I'll try OSS since it also seems to detect voice.

On the Audio side of Pipewire, would it be a replacement for PulseAudio/JACK on top of ALSA/something else, or would it be running on top of PulseAudio/JACK themselves? (...) will it be a PulseAudio replacement?<Eventually yes, although it might not end up replacing all of PulseAudio, maybe just bits of itThanks, Red Hat. We really needed to make audio in GNU more complicated. Debugging ALSA, PulseAudio and drivers wasn't enough; we needed to also debug Pipewire.<Pipewire is the latest creation of GStreamer co-creator Wim Taymans. The original reason it was created was that we realized that as desktop applications would be moving towards primarly being shipped as containerized Flatpaks we would need something for video similar to what PulseAudio was doing for Audio. As part of his job here at Red Hat Wim had already been contributing to PulseAudio for a while, including implementing a new security model for PulseAudio to ensure we could securely have containerized applications output sound through PulseAudio. So he set out to write Pipewire, (...) As he was working on figuring out the core design of PipeWire he came to the conclusion that designing Pipewire to just be able to do video would be a mistake as a major challenge he was familiar with working on GStreamer was how to ensure perfect audio and video syncronisation. If both audio and video could be routed through the same media daemon then ensuring audio and video worked well together would be a lot simpler and frameworks such as GStreamer would need to do a lot less heavy lifting to make it workSo it won't replace GStreamer either. Marvelous.<We know that for many the original rollout of PulseAudio was painful and we do not want a repeat of that history.Go fuck yourself.

Now you understand one reason why I'm a UNIX hater. When they make something new from scratch, it becomes another thing that has to be kept around forever, like Perl. Perl is supposed to replace sed and awk, but having Perl on your computer doesn't let you get rid of sed and awk because of the UNIX "tool" philosophy. Some program somewhere is going to be using sed or awk. Attempts to consolidate bloat and complexity just make the system more bloated and complex. There's the same situation with audio on Linux.

> What I can't figure out is why there isn't a giant market> for improved unix software. For example, it seems like it> would be straightforward to write a decent C macro> processor or garbage collector, and that you could make a> bundle of money selling them because everyone would want> them. But no one does this. Why not? Maybe it's because> weenies are so used to not fighting city hall that they> can't believe things could ever be better?>

You really can't figure this out? It's because everytool depends for its operation on the bugs in every othertool, to exaggerate slightly. Thus anyone promoting animproved version of anything runs smack into insuperablecompatibility problems. You have to work as hard asStallman to make any headway at all.

Stallman was a highly experienced writer of operating systems long before the birth of GNU. He gets to call GNU an operating system because he was there at the beginning of operating systems doing the work of writing operating systems. GNU OS started in 1983 and it has been an OS since 1983.

GNU was always meant to be a modular operating system that could work under different kernels. HURD itself can use different microkernels. So far GNU has worked using Linux, kFreeBSD, NT, HURD and the Solaris kernel.

Also known as "Linux Subsystem for Windows."It's literally the GNU userspace running on top of the NT kernel. There is no Linux code running at all, though they do translate some Linux functions to the NT kernel; not unlike how Wine translates some NT functions to the Linux kernel.

(adequately)Ironically enough, Windows 7 and 8 had POSIX-compliant layers. Those were, in fact, more POSIX-compliant than GNU itself.It was deprecated in favor of the Linux Subsystem for Linux in Windows 10, however.

Can you elaborate more on the POSIX compliance of Windows SFU and GNU. I remember seeing talk that while SFU existed and had all the feature lists, I heard it didn't work too well for Unix software. I didn't actually use this on Windows and I don't have experience in this configuration.

Not really. I never used it either.As far as I know, Windows' POSIX subsystem was 100 % compliant since Windows Vista because some government regulation required the OS they used to be POSIX-compliant.

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