The one and only free public forum for Bohras. The focus of this forum is the reform movement, the Dawoodi Bohra faith and, of course, the corrupt priesthood. But the discussion is in no way restricted to the Bohras alone.

The year is 2001.As human beings,we have progressed dramatically during the past century.Equal rights for all,right? Wrong. Not at least for bohris because of Burhanuddin's regime ("Thug Kotharis")- they imposing ridiculous "fatwas" for past more than fifty years and robbing the community.Their belief in equality for all not exist,barbaric and mutilating practices prevent some women from enjoying the simple unspoken natural gift of sexual pleasure.<p>Female Circumcision Operations are a prime example of a cult type religion practice that has potentially great medical implications. The emotional and physical implications of this demeaning practice need to be stopped immediately. Women who have undergone such an operation have emotional problems such as anger and rage. In some cases, these women have resorted to feelings of embarrassment and acceptance. Medical complications can include sexual dysfunction caused by mental and physical trauma,scarring, and lacerations in the genital area. The continued use of this medical procedure is indeed a tragedy. It seems that strong measures could be imposed on to stop the mutilation.After all, isn't mutilation a crime?

<br>With reference to Genital mutilation I like to reproduce a letter sent to Boston Globe by Takara Stanely of Brookline, MA. On 1/25/01<p>DON’T LINK ISLAM WITH MUTILATIONS<p>The Article “Question left in genital mutilation case: Why?”<br>(Page B1, January 17,2001), subtly links the practice of female genital mutilation to Islam by saying that Islam is “the common thread” in places where it is done. In fact, unlike male circumcision, female gentile mutilation is not teaching of Islam. It dates to time of the pharaohs and predates Islam. It has persisted among certain groups regardless of whether they are Christian, Muslim, or animist.<p>TAKARA STANLEY, Brookline, MA <p><br>

Neither male nor female genital mutilation is mentioned in the Quraan. It is the sunna of the Prophet, or so they say.<p>I suggest we let girls and boys grow up to adulthood and then let them decide if they want to follow this practise.<p>They would then be in position to decide if it is barbaric or Islamic or medically sound.<p>But to inflict this ciustom on children when they have not reached any understanding is barbarism. It is much worse than indoctrination into faith, which is also barbarism. At least that can be reversed, albeit with difficulty.<p>

I tell it the way it appears to me. There are enough religions in the world without me adding another one. And what a sorry state the world is in. Look at this message board!<p>Truth got lost when they packaged it in religion. Mullaism is new barbarism.<p>Truth does not need to be defended by reference to any scripture or mulla. It is available to everyone at every moment. We just have to open our eyes to recognize it.

Br Anajmi, Porus, Muslim First and Mumineen<p>Dosent Sunnat mean if u do it its ok, but if u dont then its not a sin.<p>does that hold any weight in this particular argument about Genital mutilations or also Circumcison<p>please explain

Dear Bro wondering,<p>Yes sunnat doesn't mean that it is ok to do it. Sunnat is something that the prophet practised but did not force the muslims in general to practise. If you do whatever is Sunnat it makes a muslim, a better muslim. I do not advocate FGM cause there is no clear cut evidence that the prophet made it Sunnat - he allowed it on one occasion but did not explicitly ask anyone to do it. Male circumcision is a different case altogether. Even the jews and the christians need to do it as a part of their religion. There are other threads discussing this topic in detail. Read and decide.<p>I would try to follow as much of the prophets Sunnah as possible and then ask Allah for forgiveness. Remember, that is if you believe in heaven, not everybody in heaven will be in the same position, it will depend upon your deeds and their worthiness.<br>The better the deeds the better the position. So what are the good deeds, there isn't a good deed that wasn't performed by the prophet and not all of them have been made fard, infact most of them are Sunnah. <p>We are trying to get away from the Sunnah just because it is inconvenient for whatever weird reasonings we may have. The fact is that we no longer have faith in heaven and its rewards. May Allah guide us all.<br>

Thnx Br Anajmi<p>Excellent explanation, But dont you think Br Porus has a Valid point, when he says let the children grow up, and then decide for themselves.<p>Or does Islam say it is the parents responsibility????

Dear Bro Wondering,<p>Why did Allah have to send down so many messengers to guide us? Why couldn't he just let us decide? Parents are the first guides of a child. A good parent will teach good things to the child. A child will grow up and eventually do what he/she wishes doesn't matter what the parents thought them but that does not free up the parent from the responsibility of guiding the child.<p>Come on brother wondering, you are not that naive to not understand something as basic as this.<p>Doesn't matter what Islam says (it always says what is right) but don't you think that it is right logically?

Thnx Br Anajmi,<p>You do make a valid point, and i have to agree with you, that parents do need to guide their children.<p>And Br Anajmi I didnt mean to offrnd you in any way, it was an honest question.<p>Thnx Again

Christians do not practice make genital mutilation as a religious practice. It was not even performed in the West til the late 1890's when some quack doctors adovcated it as a cure for masterbation (which of course it failed to prevent). It is little used in Europe and its falling in use in the USA as well (some insurance coimpanies no longer pay for it and the is a growing number of males sueing the doctors who did this for child abuse so its days are numbered in the UsA). The New Testament explicitedly states that Gentiles (non-Jews) do not have to be physically mutilated to be Christian so it was not practticed.

This is interesting discussion...not the genitial mutilation part..but that of if parents guide their children or if they even need guiding. Please start another thread referecing it to continue the discussion.

Its an abominable practice and the sooner the world is rid of it the better. What frequently annoys me though is why doesn't anyone care about stopping male circumcision? It has about as much medical justification as female circumcision.<p>-N<br>

I am sorry to disappoint you all (don't I just love to do that) but I do not support FGM without the acknowledgement of the girl. No girl should be forced to do it and it should not be made compulsory. The prophet did not and we shouldn't either.

Male circumcision may not have any medical benefits. The only reason my parents made sure I was circumcised and I will make sure my son (if I have a son) is circumcised is because the prophet (pbuh) said so.