Elchonon Hellinger wrote:PLEASE, I beg of you, this stuff is in no measure to what great port should taste like...

Elchonon Hellinger wrote:If you want real port, my brother is picking up d6 or so bottles of kinor david

Out of curiosity, which great ports have you had, and what makes your favorite Israeli dessert wine qualify as "real port?"

Elchanan is very patriotic about Israeli wine. Let's not get into an argument over designations of origin. Port is widely used in the colloquial sense of fortified sweet red wine, just as champagne is widely used for sparkling wine made in the method champenoise. "Real" Port or not, I agree with him that the Kinor Dovid is incomparably better than any other sweet red wine on the Kosher market (at least from what I've tasted). I can't wait to get my fix.

Like Elie said it well, while not really a Port, the Kinor Dovid is exceptionally tasty.

But Elchonon, that doesn't mean the Porto Quevedo isn't good! I'm not a big fan of sweet red wines in general but I do love the KD. And I don't doubt that for Port-lovers, the Quevedo must be good QPR as I trust David Raccah's and Yossie's opinions.

No wine, however good, which is made out of Portugal by the traditional method may be called 'Port'. Doing so is a breach of international conventions (which Israel is a signatory to - take note Zion Wineries - I spotted bottles of red wine of yours labelled 'Port' this week). Whether it is good or not is another question altogether.

Firstly I highly regard david raccah and yossi horowitz tastes and opinions. But we are comparing to stuff untasted, GG mentions at the kosher "port" level KD is at the top than Tura, I havent had Tura but hope to iyh next week..

Shiloh Fort i havent tasted, I had a ruby port and at 67 tasting i had the psagot port, I think netofah or tzuba ? and another... did not like because it just tasted like a strong sweet liquor as if someone took strong wine and dropped honey in it.

What should port taste like ? http://taylor.pt/en/what-is-port-wine/introduction/ Elie told me last year when I brought the bottles that its a "desert wine" and the KD is just mind boggling.. the aroma the first taste and after taste.. it just pulls you in and never lets go.. and its aged 5 years..

Mike BG wrote:No wine, however good, which is made out of Portugal by the traditional method may be called 'Port'. Doing so is a breach of international conventions (which Israel is a signatory to - take note Zion Wineries - I spotted bottles of red wine of yours labelled 'Port' this week). Whether it is good or not is another question altogether.

1. The kosher ports (that is, those made in Portugal) are made by Taylor Fladgate, one of the top port houses (wineries).

2. As to QPR, I suppose their ports are priced well for kosher ports. However, they are priced considerably higher than non-kosher ports of similar quality. A ruby port, that is, a relatively young, non-vintage port, which costs maybe as little as $ 18-19 in kosher form ($ 28.00 at OnlineKosherWine), is more likely to cost $ 12- 15 non-kosher less at Trader Joe's). Their 2005 late-bottled vintage port is listed at $ 48.00; a typical late-bottled vintage port could be had for about $ 25.00 at Costco or perhaps $ 30.00 elsewhere.

3. Yes, I have drunk a number of fine vintage posrts and have some in my "cellar". They are the world's greatest dessert wines, especially old tawny (wood-aged) ones. The best port I ever drank (bought a bottle for my 40th birthday) was Burnestre "El Duque", which had spent an average 50 years in wood. The Yikvei Zion wine (32 years in barrel) referenced by Elhanon might be of that nature, but I'm not familiar with it and it's not likely to have been made in Portugal.

4. Just in case anyone's interested in trying a pretty good and well-priced non-kosher tawny port, the best QPR I know of is Costco's own 10-or 20-year old tawnies (which are usually made by Fonseca) or the 10-year-old Quarles Harris tawny port ($ 15.00 at Trader Joe's).

YoelA, I concur that old tawnies are some of the greatest values in the wine world-- I wish they were kosher. But in that you placed them together in a thought about vintage Port, just want to set the record straight to those not in the know that tawnies are nonvintage. And it should be noted that one of the reasons for their value is the huge demand for vintage Port by the marketplace, making tawnies often an overlooked category.

Craig; almost all tawny ports are non-vintage but there are occasional vinatge ones. Offley Boa Vista used to bottle some from time to time. They also are very nice but tend to be lighter and more delicare than the non-vintage tawnies.

"Any port in a storm......" I get so confused when it comes to port wine and the rules, regulations, and laws about what you can call port and where you can't call it port and who is a signatory to what. I say that "a port by any other name would taste as sweet." The whole thing is a an accident anyway with someone long ago having added some brandy to wine to prevent it from spoiling when shipped on the high seas to Britannia. The various types of Ruby, Tawney, Aged Tawney, Colheita, Vintage, single-quinta vintage, LBV, crusted, Garrafeira, or even white ports have me completely bamboozled. I would like to get some of the port that is amongst the best of lot so I can have some standard against which to make comparison. I was even sent an email be Victor Schoenfield about this subject in response to a TN of mine about the GHW T squared (sorry, I can't get the computer to write T and superscript 2). Here it is:

Hi! Purely by chance, I ran across your blog entry regarding Yarden T2. First of all, thanks for checking the wine out and also writing about it. In addition, thanks for you kind words in general.

One comment: as you know, Port wine styles are generally split between the Tawnys and the Rubys. You compare ours to a Fonseca 20 year old Tawny. The style of our wine is in the Vintage (Vintage Port being the top of the Ruby style) direction. I think you'll find that Fonseca Vintage Port will normally start at around $40 a bottle and go up from there. That said, ours is still not "cheap". But if you do want to do a comparison tasting some time, I would suggest doing it with a Vintage Port.

This confused me further. I guess I'm going to have to take a course on this whole subject or give up trying to understand it. Any suggestions?