>>6234364Well, it's not exactly epic but I guess the Night Lords series by Dembski-Bowden is pretty cool. The Soul Drinker series is more conventionally epic, albeit falling a bit short on writing. Now, they aren't the best thing ever to be written, but if you like the genre (and are game for some pulpy, grimdark writing) you can give them a go.

>>6234385Actually, the first 4 are considered the best in the series alongside book 12. Books 7 through to 10 are usually considered to be steaming piles of shit.

For fantasy Book of the New Sun and Farseer are the best, though they're not very epic. New Sun is a dreamlike journey with excellent writing and Farseer is a character driven drama. For something truly epic on a grand scale, try Malazan Book of the Fallen or Stormlight Archives. Mileage may vary for those two.

Malazan Book of The Fallen is the definition of epic fantasy. As if the author just took the genre and pushed it to its limit.

Just keep in mind that the first book in the series was written 10 years prior to the second, and in that gap Erikson became a significantly better writer. The difference in quality is quite extreme in my opinion.

Erikson is an archeologist and an anthropologist. This shows heavily in his world. His universe is absolutely gigantic, spanning multiple continents riddled with magical realms. Every place is thick with history, the ground beneath every building is layer upon layer of civilizations that came and went, burial sites hide ancient, immortal creatures from times that have been forgotten or distorted by time and the subjective nature of history.

The sense of wonder you feel when reading is unmatched by anything else. His is truly a fleshed out world.

Literal Gods walk the earth, powerful enough to shatter entire continents. Ascendants can transform into giant dragons, swords are imbued with pocket universes in which those slain by said swords are imprisoned for eternity. He seems to follow the Diablo rule of not being afraid of massively overpowered characters and forces; if something is awesome, it stays. And he deals with the consequences of it -- people who've lived for millennia, since the beginning of time itself battle eachother in a never ending game of power, wrecking havoc on the mortal world in the process; most Gods consider mortals mere pawns to use and discard. But even so they depend entirely on mortals, it's from the ordinary people, the worshippers, that the Gods derive their power.

So if the Gods are this terrible, why do people keep worshipping them? These kinds of questions are everywhere.

POV characters are both superpowered demi-god killing machines and impoverished peasants and hopelessly romantic teenagers. Every aspect of life is dealt with in some way. More than anything, it's a tale of how people deal with the senseless cruelty of an indifferent universe, a story on the importance of compassion and the perils of certainty.

It's utterly impossible to give it an adequate description. The only thing I can say is that if you enjoy massive, sprawling epics, then look no further. This is, so far, the end all be all of EPIC fantasy. In every sense of the word. The scale of the world, of the plot, the struggles associated with being a thinking creature... etc...

It has everything you could want in a fantasy story: Cloak and dagger assassin action, massive armies clashing, magic on an unprecedented scale, political intrigue, romance, explorations of the human condition. Everything.

And to top it all off, he's just a damned good writer. The only two authors that have ever brought me to tears are Nabokov and Steven Erikson -- they're both masters of tragedy in their own ways.

If you aspire/fantasize about becoming a fantasy writer, then you HAVE to read this series. Not doing so is equal to wanting to become a chemist without learning the periodic table.

Pic related: It's a flying, hollow mountain used by prehistoric, cognizant pseudo-dinosaurs as a city... And this does not even scratch the surface of the beautiful insanity that is this series.

It's important to understand that he is very much unlike other fantasy others in that he does absolutely no hand-holding. You're just thrown into the middle of the action with no clue what the fuck is going on. In the beginning nothing makes any sense -- but stick with it. The more you read, the more it begins to make sense. It's like a puzzle where you have to find the pieces yourself. He never straight up tells you what's going on or why. In this way, I guess, you could say he's the antithesis of Brandon Sanderson.

Just don't lose your motivation; you're not meant to understand any of it at first. But you will if you continue.

>>6235773You did not just destroy a poster's (whose time they METICULOUSLY spent writing an entire paragraph of non-sequitur sentences to justify in total conclusion to a point of absolute NECESSARY justification - mark me, sir, NECESSARY JUSTIFICATION - without being asked mind you - for the purpose of informing) dream.

>>6235856It's easy to recommend BotNS to a fantasy reader, as even if you disagree with the fantasy/"science fantasy" categorization, it shares many of its trappings. Just because there's more than meets the eye doesn't mean it is out of place in a fantasy discussion.

That said, it's true that it definitely doesn't belong in an epic fantasy discussion.

>>6235762Well then, I feel compelled to start the second book after reading this. I finished Gardens about a year ago and remember most things in it but not all of them. If you could name a few things that are important to take away from it, what would they be? I don't feel like re-reading the entire book.

>>6238242>Daily reminder that if you read anything other than J.R.R. TolkienWhy do people think this?

Tolkien is terrible. I wasn't even able to make it through the trilogy because of how bad it was. Now, I've heard Simarillion is good, but Tolkien is not a good fantasy writer; I don't care if he was the first, or whatever he is

>>6235762Thanks for writing all that. I was planning on reading Malazan after i finish The Black Company series and you have just convinced me even further.How do you think it compares to The Black Company by the way? I heared it's pretty similar, but even better.

Tor.com has a "Malazan re-read of the Fallen" series you could try. They summarize each chapter, and follow up with commentary from two hosts, one of whom is new to the series. The commentary isn't spoilery if I remember correctly, but the user comment section is a minefeild.

I read GotM about a year ago and recently decided to continue the series (just started Memories of Ice), my plan was to use the reread to refresh my memory and then start Deadhouse Gates. I found it so helpful/compelling I ended up reading GotM again and enjoyed it even more the second time.

Another vote for Malazan. I really liked that you were just plunged into the story with no explanation. By the time you are half way through the book you realize it was all on purpose! Battling armies trying to seize a well developed city without destroying its infrastrucure,, ninja-like spies going around killing people, a character playing two roles so separate that it is hard to place it till he leaves at the end.

It all converges at a garden party where all he different stories come together. Some resolve themslves (like a bombing planned outside the garden wall, an assasination a theft) and many are not.

The second book sold me though. That chain of dogs made me emotional. A wagon train of war refugees fleeing through inhospitable lands including deserts and beseiged on all sides constantly. Tha desperation, that fear, tha starvation, infighting, stray dogs and former pets joining alongside the warriors. It gave me some trail of tears feels.

>>6241103People like Dresden Files, I didn't really enjoy the first two that much, to which I usually hear that it picks up around 3 or 4, but I have enough to read without clogging up my to-read pipeline with what feels to me like mediocrity (then again, I'm no fan of fantasy in general)

>>6235762I've read the first four books but I don't plan to complete the series. Honestly have too much other stuff to read that is more appealing. Could you tell me how the full story ends? Also, if you wish to specify on one character, my favorite character/concept was Itkovian, the Shield Anvil. I know he becomes 'reincarnated' but that's all.

>>6238682>RothfussNo. No more words wasted on what filth his writing is.

Sanderson is one of the few non shit-tier fantasy writers alive. No mary-sues, no shitty self-inserts. Magic systems that are thought-out, expansive plots in an expansive world.

The only valid criticisms of his writing that I've heard are that his romances are sterile and his "witty" dialogue is lame. Both reasonable complaints. Sanderson is also a conservative mormon and his writing reflects that - no sex and light on the edginess.

He writes very quickly, minimum of one book a year. His writing has definitely improved from when he first started out - some of his early works are mediocre. Pic related is one of his best, and is the first in a 10 book saga that will be considered a genre fiction classic.

>>6245486Alloy of Law will have four books in its series total. AoL came out a couple years back and two sequels are out soon, as well as whenever the fuck he writes the fourth.

AoL itself wasn't even going to be a thing at first. The original Mistborn trilogy is the first in a trilogy of Mistborn trilogies. He was never done with Mistborn after Alloy and I have no clue where you heard that from.

In what order should I read Malazan? According to pic related I should read Deadhouse Gates after Gardens, but this re-read of the fallen from Tor.com suggests reading Night of Knives after Gardens. Any suggestions/opinions?

Second Amber series is also really good, but a lot of people jump right into it after finishing Corwin's tale and get all pissy because WHEN YOU CHANGE THE PROTAGONIST IN A FIRST PERSON NARRATIVE YOU ALSO CHANGE THE NARRATOR OMGHERESYEXTERMINATUS!

Sorry, where was I? Zelazny. Zelazny's the shit.

Heinlein's also fun if you aren't a butthurt political football fan who can't enjoy a work of fiction exploring alternative viewpoints. Much of his work is set in the same timeline, just different places and times, not to mention the later works that tie everything together with metafictional dimension hopping, and, frankly, kind of blow.

I have been enjoying the hell out of the Matador series. Pacifist Space Shaolin Ninjas! Start with The Man Who Never Missed, by Steven Perry.

Dresden Files is decent urban fantasy that even those who, like me, tend to vomit at urban fantasy, kind of enjoy, if you can get through the first two books, which kind of suck, but can't really be skipped without missing out on important plot points.

The Destroyer series is not what most people think of as fantasy or sci fi, but, nigga, I been doing martial art for more than twenty years, and I'm stout as fuck, but any martial art that can do what Sinanju does classifies as magic and/or sufficiently advanced technology.

>>6235762Okay. I just wanna say, I've been hearing this series recommended for years now, all kinds of shit from all kinds of people to read this shit, and I've been all, like, meh. Got other things to read. You? You just sold me. I am now putting this series on page 1 of my to-read list, entirely because of what you said, even though prior to reading your post, it was nowhere on my list.

>>6241964This. Dresden Files is urban fantasy for guys. Not the best shit in the world, but if you want to read about werewolves and vampires in an otherwise realistic setting, but don't want the werewolves and vampires having a gay sex competition to see who gets to be friendzoned by the most boring teenage fatass narcissistic bitch in the world, it's Butcher or write your own.

>>6247731I wish I looked up a reading order before starting to read the series. On bonehunters right now and im starting to think reading them chronologically would make more sense>>6246121Thats in one of the earlier book. The whole chain of dogs story was awesome

>>6247937The original Han Solo Trilogy. And I'm told good things about Rogue Squadron and Republic Commando, though I've not got to them yet. Other than that, none that I'm aware of. I mean, if you're really into Star Wars, you probably won't get too pissed off at the mediocrity you'll face in most of the stories, but if a good book, and by a good book I mean a book that is good, not simply a book that's not too terrible for a Star Wars novel, is what you're after, licensed properties are not the way to go.

Speaking of licensed properties, apparently the Vorkosigan Saga was originally Star Trek fanfic, and when Bujold got a rejection letter for daring to have a protagonist who is short, not beautiful, and not physically imposing, she said, fuck it, filed off the serial numbers, and produced a series that, frankly, blows Star Trek out of the water.

>>6234385>Even if it gets good, no book should take SEVEN fucking books to do so.Having read the whole series I can tell you it's all downhill from the first book until the last few books, and they aren't even that great. Only read if you have massive autism that doesn't allow you to leave things unfinished.Even at its very best the series is nothing more than a half-decent LOTR rip off, and genrally much worse than that.Honestly in the entire series the only thing that really stuck with me was a handful of battle sequences that I thought were well done.

He basically became a start-up/minor god. People who visited his shrine would receive blessings from him in the form of dumping their guilt and sins onto him like a good shield anvil. It's revealed later he is either not conscious of it in death, so his soul is ever more burdened/tortured, or he isn't able to refuse anyone.

This eventually got abused to shit. Eventually a high priestess was named, and through her he could communicate with the world to build a formal religion.

>>6247908There has got to be more urban fantasy for guys than Desden files/nightside/felix castor.

Some of the female written shit is not that bad, but it's like finding a tiny ass diamond in a giant ass universe of shit. and I can't be fucking fucked to read through 60000 twilight 2.0 books to find that one good/okay series.

>There has got to be more urban fantasy for guys than Desden files/nightside/felix castor.

No that's really it. UF has largely been taken over by ghost detectives and paranormal romance.

Actually I'm unwilling to classify Twilight/MI and the like as "urban fantasy" just like I'm unwilling to classify Hunger Games and Divergent clones as "Dystopia," but sadly until someone writes something that's actually groundbreaking (Urban Fantasy has never had this and Dystopia hasn't had one in a long long time), we won't be seeing anything more than derivative schlock, so buckle up and enjoy the ride.

I'm enjoying The Stormlight Archive so far, even if you can see a few things coming from a mile away like Kaladin and Shallan, not that I really mind. Also I'm glad the story has finally moved beyond the Shattered Plains.

>>6246946Not him but it's shite. I don't need a setting hand fed to me, but within the first five chapters I should have something resembling a single fucking idea about what the fuck is going on or who the protagonist is supposed to be.

>>6256186This is basically the common issue that divides people. If you need to understand everything right away, then Malazan is not for you. For the first book you basically have no clue what's going on -- if you can't simply enjoy the ride, then it's just not your kinda book.

If you stick with it it will gradually begin to make sense. The more books you read, the more pieces fall into place. It's an immensely gratifying experience to figure the puzzle out by yourself instead -- as opposed to being spoon fed information like you do in Sanderon's books.

>who is the protagonist

There is no protagonist. There are so many POV characters that it doesn't even make much sense to talk about it pluralistically. Atleast not until the latter half of the series.

>>6256670Yeah, sure, definitely. What I mean is stuff like how the magic works, who the characters are, what the plot is about etc.

It takes several books before you even begin to understand the overall plot of Malazan.

I didn't mean it in a necessarily negative sense. I personally really enjoyed the first two Storm Light books. It's just that the two series are massively different. If there is a hand-holding continuum, then Sanderson and Erikson are as far apart as you can be.

Just curious; have you read Malazan? Because if you haven't, then you should give it a try. If nothing else then just to see what I mean.

I have the 2007 Chronicles of the Black Company omnibus. At the end of Shadows Linger, there's a misprint(?) saying that the Lieutenant, not Raven, died from splitting his head open after slipping . How do you fuck up a book release so badly?

>>6258287>the brothers Juss, Spitfire, and Goldry Bluszco, and their cousin Brandoch DahaI have no idea if you're serious or not, but the names are fucking crackpot ones in it. No theme at all, just weird sounding shit.

>>6256186>but within the first five chapters I should have something resembling a single fucking idea about what the fuck is going on or who the protagonist is supposed to be.What the fuck, I'm just reading Malazan now. Even though GotM is the weakest one so ar, it still does a good job of giving you information if you pay attention.

Okay, I'll confess that I'm pretty pleb as far as readers go, but I didn't really get it.

I read all of it, and I understood the plot and most of its nuances, but it all felt rather dry. It's impossible to connect with any of the characters because they act in their unpredictable and impossible to grasp non-human ways(as they probably realistically should in that scenario, but nevertheless). It is indeed pretty well-written, and has some twists that really blow your mind, but the story ultimately feels kinda pointless, as I neither cared about anyone in it, nor the fate of the universes, nor pretty much anything.

>>6235762What I like so much about Book of the Fallen is that most of the time gods play with mortals like they're pawns on their chessboard, but sometimes the roles are reversed and a mage manages to trick a god.

>>6259893I just finished the first book as well. It was pretty alright it but I couldn't shake the feeling that it was lacking in some aspect. Seems rather odd to not be able to put my finger on it much further than that. With most authors I know exactly what I like and don't like about their books, but not so here.

>Runelord series after the 5th bookWhat the fuck was that author thinking? I have never seen a series so thoroughly wrecked by it's creator. Good thing the 4th book tied everything up and everything after can safely be ignored.

>>6245525While not fantasy and more sci-fi, the Otherworld series by Tad Williams is the best use of the Virtual Reality concept I've seen.

>>6259915The one person I've recommended Cosmere stuff to has only read Mistborn so far and enjoyed it; even recommended it to one of his friends. Haven't been able to get him to read anything else yet but he's also reading other shit so who knows.

>>6234364It might not be what you're after, since it's only a single book, but The Stars my Destination is a fantastic book. It's Monte Cristo in space, and I can almost assure you that you'll like a lot more than you think after looking it up on Wikipedia.

You should read Castle of the Otter (you can find it stand-alone or collected inside "Castle of Days"). Its Gene writing about writing New Sun and books in general. There's a lot of interesting stuff in there.

>>6260256I love WoT, but I can see how people wouldn't like it. If you aren't interested in the characters or world then the pacing would be terrible. The last three books really didn't give me the best impression of Sanderson either. Give his Stormlight series a try, he has a stronger focus on characters and slows the pace down compared to the last 3 WoT books or his Mistborn series.

I kinda get what you're saying because they don't have a solid through-thread that ties them together and you could read them in any order. But they're sci-fi novels all set in the same universe, what else would you call them except a series?

Imajica is like a sprawling acid-fuelled epic version of Weaveworld, long-winded but well worth it. The Damnation Game is a much tidier, pacy story with good horror elements and a more grounded tone. His short story collections the Books of Blood are hit and miss but contain some classics. It's been a while so I can't make any really specific recommendations but he's almost always great, the only one I didn't love was Gallilee (sp?) which is more of a period romance with some supernatural stuff, not awful but not really to my taste. I need to go back and read them all again.

You mean, what did I like about it apart from the fact it's Barker? I like how it sets up completely mundane boring British life on one side, then this crazy self-indulgent fantasy world on the other, then has them bleed together. That scene where a storm blows up in the main character's back garden and (from what I remember) the skin of a hangman inflated by the wind blows in to come after him always stuck with me for how it dumps this ridiculous fantasy horror concept into a scene of a Scouser talking to his dad about pigeons. It just gets me.

I honestly can't think of anything similar, it must exist but I haven't come across it. Anything I could suggest would either be 'just' fantasy or horror, I don't know anyone else who does the same blend. Haunted by Chuck Palahniuk kind of has that sense of delirious horror in an urban setting I guess, but that's stretching it.

I don't know if it's suicide to mention 40k on /lit/ but that setting has thrown up some excellent military sf. The Gaunt's Ghosts series has several great examples, really interesting extrapolations from 20th century military history blown up in that lurid 40k style. Any other fans here?

>>6234364Read Revelation Space.And read the accompanying novellas and short stories. The Prefect is also very good. I have not read Chasm City and have little interest but all of it is in one universe and it is all fucking brilliant.

Goddamnit why are fantasy authors some of the most uncreative, boring autistic motherfuckers on the planet?

I've yet to find a fantasy series whose world feels like a NATURAL environment - not some mary sue historical epic creation created by a nerdy 13 year old kid in his room because he spent too much time reading about the Roman Empire.

Where are the chaotic unplanned cities that don't have some architectural gimmick to them? Where are the towns with names that aren't either ripped straight out of Tolkien or generic english villages?

I'm gonna write a novel based on that event.It's going to be a comedy book--displaying the king and all his special needs, and the frustrations of everyone around him, having to do everything he says without question.

Julian May's The Saga of Pliocene Exile and The Galactic Milieu Series have been a staple re-read over the last 20 years or so.

EE Doc Smiths Lensmen series is good, although Ive only read the last Skylark novel i imagine its ok too. Early sci-fi can be a bit basic, but there's some interesting concepts and weapons in his novels.

I've always preferred Corum and Hawkmoon over Elric and Erekose in the Eternal Champion series, so recommend them over the others of Moorcock's especially the pseudo Celtic mythology of the final 3 Corum novels. Oswald Bastables 3 novels are of note, steampunk before the word was invented.

Hawk and Fisher are fantasy whodunnits, and my recommendation out of the authors considerable output of work and although Simon R Greens work is a bit pulpy and incredibly formulaic, I enjoy most of it to be honest. Mindless action and explosions to speed read through and while away some time.

>>6235762Seriously, I could write paragraphs about how shitty Malazan is. I won't, because I've done it before, and Malazanfags come out of the woodwork and goBUT MUH ARCHAEOLOGYBUT MUH ANOMANDER RAKE WHO IS SO BADASS

>>6281746>I'll make the chained god a real god...that way, he'll have to follow the rules! *smugface*

Most of the Gods that actually fuck up shit(read up to book 6 so far) are ascendants, that means they were once mortal. The Chained God is an Elder God he wasn't born in the sense that ascendants were(or you and me), he was never mortal, didn't have to choose shit, he doesn't have humanity's [insert spiel about free will here]

>>6259893What I love about Abercrombie is his fights. They are fucking brutal. Every time a northerner is in a brawl it actually feels like a brawl. Swords? Fuck swords let me just ram the fuck out of you with my shield.

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