i plan on telling them, i dont discuss grades, tests, or progress. if someone was gone and needs a copy of an outline, that's different, but anything else serves no purpose. someone will always feel worse after that type of exchange.

i'm old and cranky and can get away with it.

I won't discuss exams -- especially not right after taking them. I think that's a simple measure for sanity.

I do willingly give notes to people who've missed a class and, on the rare occasion that I've got one that no one else does, outlines.

The person who has the most impact on my performance is me. Giving my notes to someone else doesn't hurt me in terms of class standing, and does help to keep me human.

and even if it would hurt my class standing, i'd do it anyway. what comes around, goes around.

What many uber-competitive people forget is that their classmates are also, by and large, their future colleagues.

I just mean that you seem like someone I'd dig. Did you see my post earlier (I think it was on the UMich 1L Diaries thread) about how incredibly chill the soon-to-be Wolverine 1Ls strike me? I swear to joe, that played a big part in my decision. I am so not interested in studying with the vein-popping-out-of-the-forehead types for three years.

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

I concur in the notion that most law schools are roughly the same. I somewhat disagree as to the level of competitiveness. Specifically, "all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school." What really matters is the nature of the competition. People are all used to doing well, so there is a high level of intensity in the sense that few people truly don't care what their grades are. But that is generally manifested as a drive to do your best not resentment or aggression towards other students.

The coffee-house studying doesn't happen because it is completely ineffective, not because people want to slam each other.

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

Oh, get off your high horse. Having already made it through a pretty rigorous grad program, not to mention thirty years of life, I think I'm in a good position to predict how I'll respond to the mania of law school. Even while conceding that I've yet to experience it firsthand, and welcome thoughful input from someone who has.

A fair few of the people posting here are grown-ups with plenty of life experience, and enough self-assurance to confidently predict how competitive they'll be. You don't have to believe us; I imagine I speak for the majority when I say that we don't care.

And btw - Michigan doesn't rank its students after first semester, or at any point until graduation. hth.

I wouldn't presume to pronounce you an ass-clown since I don't know you. But I'll take your word for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I seem to be plumb out of clove ciggies...gotta run!

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

Oh, get off your high horse. Having already made it through a pretty rigorous grad program, not to mention thirty years of life, I think I'm in a good position to predict how I'll respond to the mania of law school. Even while conceding that I've yet to experience it firsthand, and welcome thoughful input from someone who has.

A fair few of the people posting here are grown-ups with plenty of life experience, and enough self-assurance to confidently predict how competitive they'll be. You don't have to believe us; I imagine I speak for the majority when I say that we don't care.

And btw - Michigan doesn't rank its students after first semester, or at any point until graduation. hth.

I wouldn't presume to pronounce you an ass-clown since I don't know you. But I'll take your word for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I seem to be plumb out of clove ciggies...gotta run!

Princess Jolie--let's not forget what the function of assclowns are...entertainment for her heiness

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

Oh, get off your high horse. Having already made it through a pretty rigorous grad program, not to mention thirty years of life, I think I'm in a good position to predict how I'll respond to the mania of law school. Even while conceding that I've yet to experience it firsthand, and welcome thoughful input from someone who has.

A fair few of the people posting here are grown-ups with plenty of life experience, and enough self-assurance to confidently predict how competitive they'll be. You don't have to believe us; I imagine I speak for the majority when I say that we don't care.

And btw - Michigan doesn't rank its students after first semester, or at any point until graduation. hth.

I wouldn't presume to pronounce you an ass-clown since I don't know you. But I'll take your word for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I seem to be plumb out of clove ciggies...gotta run!

His comments and your comments are not inconsistent. You're just perhaps destined to be one of the "truly good people" he mentioned. I think the main point is that a) most people don't know how they'll react, b) nobody says "I'm going to go to law school and be an obnoxious, competitive ubertool," c) some people inevitably do, and d) it's pretty much the same story at every school.

EDIT: I'll also add that many of the people who reach stage C have no idea they've done so. Some of the biggest gunners at our school have complained to me about the other gunners.

Princess Jolie--let's not forget what the function of assclowns are...entertainment for her heiness

Aww, greengrl, you're too good to me. I'm definitely not royalty. Maybe they'd let me through the castle gates to play the royal lute or something.

Yeah, I wasn't being very nice. Which, I guess, proves that although I'll aspire to be one of those truly good people in law school, I may be destined to be a crotchety female dog.

MindTheGap, good point. Touche.

MindTheGap--good call. What's the saying--every law class has an asshat and if you can't figure out who it is then it's probably you? something like that--so true. All the more reason to make friends enough with the right people who will tell you that "hey, you're great but you're being a total asshat".

Jolie--didn't you hear? Admission to a T14 is synonymous with royal descent--CLEARLY you haven't read enough of LSD

I think it will be difficult for any of us to be completely "good" or "calm". We're all ambitious, driven and commited to success. I've always had a hard time focusing on my own goals and trying not to be distracted by other people's successes and achievements. It's a constant "am I good enough" feeling--I blame this on my mother She should have had more than just me. Only children are a nightmare heheheh j/k

It's fun to say how chill and laid back you and your classmates are going to be when you have yet to start law school. It's a different beast once people start trying for summer positions, get their first graded legal memos back, are ranked after first semester, etc. 0Ls talking all sorts of game about how law school is going to be just come across stupid or arrogant.

Regardless if you are knighting me with the type-A assclown title, all law students are inherently competitive or they simply would not be at law school. This is twice the case at a school as prestigious as Michigan.

Michigan gives you access to some of the best legal jobs throughout the country. See how long the clove smoking, coffee house studying, thing lasts. And I'm not saying people at UM do the cutting pages out of books, stealing laptops, etc thing. I think that is truly a myth. Everyone has heard of it but I have yet to meet a law student where that was the routine at their school. It's part of the BS Paperchase mystique of law schools in general. I'll concede that some schools might have slightly higher proportions of people that would never share an outline and secretly be rooting for your demise but I think you'll find each school has roughly an equal amount of truly good people, gunner assholes, future patent law attorneys with social anxiety issues, etc.

Oh, get off your high horse. Having already made it through a pretty rigorous grad program, not to mention thirty years of life, I think I'm in a good position to predict how I'll respond to the mania of law school. Even while conceding that I've yet to experience it firsthand, and welcome thoughful input from someone who has.

A fair few of the people posting here are grown-ups with plenty of life experience, and enough self-assurance to confidently predict how competitive they'll be. You don't have to believe us; I imagine I speak for the majority when I say that we don't care.

And btw - Michigan doesn't rank its students after first semester, or at any point until graduation. hth.

I wouldn't presume to pronounce you an ass-clown since I don't know you. But I'll take your word for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I seem to be plumb out of clove ciggies...gotta run!

His comments and your comments are not inconsistent. You're just perhaps destined to be one of the "truly good people" he mentioned. I think the main point is that a) most people don't know how they'll react, b) nobody says "I'm going to go to law school and be an obnoxious, competitive ubertool," c) some people inevitably do, and d) it's pretty much the same story at every school.

EDIT: I'll also add that many of the people who reach stage C have no idea they've done so. Some of the biggest gunners at our school have complained to me about the other gunners.

Yeah, even at collegial oasis UVA I could pick out 2 guys who would be gunners next year in our mock class.

I think a common misconception is people mistaking the intensity of the work for competitiveness. At Cornell the people weren't competitive because it's hard to be a jerk in such a small school and get away with it, but the workload is heavier than it is elsewhere so it gets labled competitive.