Sorry this has taken a lot longer than it should have. An explanation is in order...

We got lost in the weeds of the problem of printing white legends on black PBT. It's a lot harder than I thought it would be. We have a process worked out, but our main factory's laser machine is not up to the task, so they are buying another one.

We also had some mechanical issues to deal with, getting ALPS to play nice with Cherry stabilizer mounts commonly used for spacebars. We've designed and tooled up a hybrid clip (photos attached). These will fit onto any ALPS keycap and allow you to use Cherry-style mounts (with appropriate balance bar). I've posted photos of prototypes before, but these are now in production.

(Sorry the photos are not better. They were taken on a hotel sink basin in China -- flew back the day before yesterday.)

We've already started transitioning to our own keycap tooling, and PBT will follow.

Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.

Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.

First of all, thanks for the update, Edgar!

Glad to hear things are starting to roll forward.

I have a Tactile Pro FK302 (white keys) and two Laptop Pro FK303QBT (black keys).

I use DSK exclusively, and no one ever gives any love to us Dvorak users. As you know, the sculpted layout on the FK302 does not lend itself to repositioning those keys; I would rather have sculpted DSK layout similar to what the existing QWERTY keys provide with appropriate option legends in the right place, but I'm not sure I will get my key dreams fulfilled

We've designed and tooled up a hybrid clip (photos attached). These will fit onto any ALPS keycap and allow you to use Cherry-style mounts (with appropriate balance bar). I've posted photos of prototypes before, but these are now in production.

Cool. So if I'm planning a custom hand-wired Alps-based monstrosity I should use Costar style stabs, so as to have the most flexibility in choice of keycaps.Does this also mean that for future Alps keyboards you'll be using exclusively the Cherry/Costar style stabs? Are you hoping to kill off the old Alps-style stabs?

Our experience selling normal ABS caps has been that most people buy blanks. I don't know if that will be the case with PBT. Would love to hear people's opinions on that.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.

We've designed and tooled up a hybrid clip (photos attached). These will fit onto any ALPS keycap and allow you to use Cherry-style mounts (with appropriate balance bar). I've posted photos of prototypes before, but these are now in production.

Cool. So if I'm planning a custom hand-wired Alps-based monstrosity I should use Costar style stabs, so as to have the most flexibility in choice of keycaps.Does this also mean that for future Alps keyboards you'll be using exclusively the Cherry/Costar style stabs? Are you hoping to kill off the old Alps-style stabs?

The Costar style stabs we made for spacebars only. You could use them for other keys, but that would require non-standard balance bar wires.

We are still using ALPS stabs for the 2u to 2.75u keys. The provides the most flexibility of keycap choice.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.

The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).

Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.

The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).

Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.

Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?

Traditionally, PBT caps have always had a UV layer. PBT is highly resistant to sun damage (preserving its colour over time) but it is porous and prone to scratching/staining (hence the UV layer).

If you're using PBT blanks without UV, the porousness makes them feel really nice and dry. This porousness also makes White PBT more vulnerable to staining -- which of course can be an advantage, if your plan is to stain them or dye-sub them.

ABS is the flipside to PBT, in terms of strengths/weaknesses. ABS is highly resistant to scratching and staining, but is vulnerable to sun damage.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.

The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).

Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.

Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?

Traditionally, PBT caps have always had a UV layer. PBT is highly resistant to sun damage (preserving its colour over time) but it is porous and prone to scratching/staining (hence the UV layer).

If you're using PBT blanks without UV, the porousness makes them feel really nice and dry. This porousness also makes White PBT more vulnerable to staining -- which of course can be an advantage, if your plan is to stain them or dye-sub them.

ABS is the flipside to PBT, in terms of strengths/weaknesses. ABS is highly resistant to scratching and staining, but is vulnerable to sun damage.

With the UV layer, does the cap still feel dry? How much different is it from ABS? I am not very sure about the scratch resistant part. From what I have heard of, PBT is much more resilient to shining than ABS. Isn't keycap shine the result of wearing down the keycap? If PBT is more resilient to wearing down, why is it less resilient to scratch?

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

Yes, for the laser-etched PBT caps, there is a UV layer applied to prevent staining and scratching.

The blank PBT caps are just straight PBT (no UV).

Sounds great! I have seen long opposed of laser etech legends because their vulnerability to stain. If this is no longer a problem, I would really love to have white on black caps. For me, though black on black or blank looks more geeky, printed ones are still more practical.

Will the UV layer change the texture and feel of PBT though?

Traditionally, PBT caps have always had a UV layer. PBT is highly resistant to sun damage (preserving its colour over time) but it is porous and prone to scratching/staining (hence the UV layer).

If you're using PBT blanks without UV, the porousness makes them feel really nice and dry. This porousness also makes White PBT more vulnerable to staining -- which of course can be an advantage, if your plan is to stain them or dye-sub them.

ABS is the flipside to PBT, in terms of strengths/weaknesses. ABS is highly resistant to scratching and staining, but is vulnerable to sun damage.

With the UV layer, does the cap still feel dry? How much different is it from ABS? I am not very sure about the scratch resistant part. From what I have heard of, PBT is much more resilient to shining than ABS. Isn't keycap shine the result of wearing down the keycap? If PBT is more resilient to wearing down, why is it less resilient to scratch?

Yes, matte UV is still dry but not as dry as direct PBT, but still dryer than ABS.

PBT is a harder material than ABS, so it won't turn shiny. ABS is softer. It's kind of like the difference between bone and cartilage. ABS is like cartilage, more likely to bend than break. PBT is more like bone; it's stiffer but will break when stressed.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

What are you doing to your keycaps that they become stained? Have you tried soaking them in fizzy denture cleaning solution?

I have been using a KBP V60-MTS as my daily driver for over a year now. There is no sign of staining on the white laser legends. There are a few dark patches of dirt or dust, but these are easily removed with soap and water and rubbing with a fine cloth.

Given my previous experience with laser etched caps, I probably will only go for dye sub or blank. The white laser etched legend on my stock KBP V60 stained very quickly and was impossible to remove. I appreciate the effort of making white laser etched legend on black caps, but I can't persuade myself to getting another set of laser etched keys unless there's some special tech that prevents the legend from being stained.

What are you doing to your keycaps that they become stained? Have you tried soaking them in fizzy denture cleaning solution?

I have been using a KBP V60-MTS as my daily driver for over a year now. There is no sign of staining on the white laser legends. There are a few dark patches of dirt or dust, but these are easily removed with soap and water and rubbing with a fine cloth.

FWIW, the lasered caps on my Quiet Pro got slightly stained fairly quickly. Same with the orig caps on the V80-MTS, which appear to be exactly the same except for the legend font. It's weird because I bought the MQP used, so someone used it before me but the legends didn't stain, but with my grubby fingers all over them they stained up rapidly. I guess it reacts differently to different peoples sweat chemistry. And btw, soap and/or denture tabs didn't remove the stains.

The lasered caps on my Ducky 1008XM wore *horribly*. The whole board was sort of a fiasco quality-wise, but the caps... the lettering rubbed off over time, leaving at best a groove in the cap where it was. The Matias lasered caps held up better, but I replaced them with some SGI dyesubs pretty quickly.

What are you doing to your keycaps that they become stained? Have you tried soaking them in fizzy denture cleaning solution?

I have been using a KBP V60-MTS as my daily driver for over a year now. There is no sign of staining on the white laser legends. There are a few dark patches of dirt or dust, but these are easily removed with soap and water and rubbing with a fine cloth.

Just regular typing. I have sweaty hands though. Legends on keys that are frequently used shows have an uneven stain that makes them appear lighter than white (especially compared to pure white legends on side of keycaps). It's not obvious in every light condition but kind of bothers me a bit. I have tried soap water, dish washing liquid, laundry detergent, denture tab and even ultrasonic cleaner but no luck.

I noticed you've just put up sets of blank ABS Planck keycaps for sale, is there a possibility of a PBT variant?I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard, since it's just a bunch of 1U caps with a 2U thrown in...

I noticed you've just put up sets of blank ABS Planck keycaps for sale, is there a possibility of a PBT variant?I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard, since it's just a bunch of 1U caps with a 2U thrown in...

I noticed you've just put up sets of blank ABS Planck keycaps for sale, is there a possibility of a PBT variant?I'm hoping it wouldn't be too hard, since it's just a bunch of 1U caps with a 2U thrown in...

It would be nice to have a planck specific option, but if there's a full 104 key option then you can use that to fill a Planck pretty easily.

What keycap profiles will these caps have? I prefer Cherry more than the Filco / 'OEM' Profiles.

I am also excited about having some new sets of dyesub thick PBT caps for Alps.Please think about supports such as 1.75u R_Shift, 1.5u R2 delete, and bottom row 1.5u Alt Ctrl modifiers, as well as various spacebar options, because these key cap sets are long awaited by both the new and the old Alps mounted switches enthusiasts.

Will definitely buy if you offer any RGBK / CYMK modifier sets, or RGBW / CYMW sets (Laser-etched to get the white PBT out again, like how EnjoyPBT do it).

To support popular colour combinations, we plan to have each keyset composed of 2 subsets (which will be available separately): a Main Set and a Mod Set...

The Main Set is dominated by alphanumerics, plus other keys that share the same colour.

The Mod Set includes all modifier keys, plus additional keys of the same colour.

There are also a few duplicate keys that appear in both sets, to satisfy varying tastes. This approach offers quite a bit of flexibility. For example, you could combine a Black Mod Set with a White Main Set, or get both Main and Mod Sets in Black for all Black keys, etc.

Some keys will have duplicates in multiple sizes (e.g., 1.25u and 1.5u for Ctrl, etc.).

I am also excited about having some new sets of dyesub thick PBT caps for Alps.Please think about supports such as 1.75u R_Shift, 1.5u R2 delete, and bottom row 1.5u Alt Ctrl modifiers, as well as various spacebar options, because these key cap sets are long awaited by both the new and the old Alps mounted switches enthusiasts.

What keycap profiles will these caps have? I prefer Cherry more than the Filco / 'OEM' Profiles.

They are our own design. Our aim was to make them look modern, while still maintaining the sculpted comfort of traditional caps.

On this topic, can you allude to which existing profile they would be closest to, just for our reference?

If they were close to DCS for example (or at least closer than the traditional Alps-fitment keycaps) then it would make it much easier to put together custom combinations of alphas and mods. I think that's something the custom Alps community is missing right now..

Holy crap this is exciting news, I'd heard that something like this was in the pipeline ages ago, it's great to hear that it's coming to fruition.

On this topic, can you allude to which existing profile they would be closest to, just for our reference?

If they were close to DCS for example (or at least closer than the traditional Alps-fitment keycaps) then it would make it much easier to put together custom combinations of alphas and mods. I think that's something the custom Alps community is missing right now..

Yes, we're very excited about the possibilities. High quality lasering on PBT (via the new process we devised) opens up a lot of interesting possibilities for custom sets.

The BoW shown, is that dyesub or laser? Detail, clarity, contrast looks lovely. I should ignore that slight misalignment, right? Will the black legends on BoW caps be a darker black than that? It looks a little grey on my screen.

So, the next thing after BoW sign-off is a production run of blank black - is that right? So the first round of blanks could be only a couple months away?