Peter Shcheglov: They think that the Ukrainians as a species have been for centuries

Peter Shcheglov: They think that the Ukrainians as a species have been for centuries

12.07.2016

“The romantic understanding of the territory of Ukraine belongs to us. None of us “Russian” names don’t steal. We voluntarily abandon it,” – said the newspaper VIEW, the academician Peter Tolochko, Ukrainian historiography, anticipating a bleak future. Informed nationalists disrupted a presentation of his book.

“This action was clearly planned in nature, were well choreographed and was yet another clinical manifestation of anti-Russian hysteria” – the Russian foreign Ministry commented on the massacre, which the activists of the party “Freedom” arranged the presentation of the book of the famous historian Petro Tolochko “How went the Russian land.” Moscow hopes that Ukrainian authorities will cease to escalate Russophobic sentiments, emphasized on Smolensk square.

“I have many years of more living in the era of Kievan Rus, than it is today. I am travelling with the princes, accompanying them in their campaigns and battles, debating with the scribes…“

The Russian centre of science and culture, which was assigned to the presentation, material damage, Tolochko heard threats of physical violence, told the then head of the representative office of Rossotrudnichestvo Konstantin Vorobyov. What the claims presented to him by the rioters, in an interview with the newspaper LOOK told the academician of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, Director of the Institute of archaeology of NAS of Ukraine Petro Tolochko.

OPINION: Peter, as the presentation you blew off, could you now explain what your new book differ from the previous?

Peter Shcheglov: I Have a book of authorities in Ancient Rus’, but to the subject of the origin of Russia, I got only recently. In the new book considers the perennial question posed by another chronicler Nestor: “where have gone the Russian land”. For two hundred years have accumulated a very large historiography, expressed different points of view. The main, perhaps, two. One state and the name of the Eastern Slavs brought the Vikings, the Normans. The second pochvennicheskaya: state was born of the Slavs regardless, before the arrival of the Vikings.

Being an archaeologist, I bring, of course, and archaeological evidence. During research was found about 15 of the early grads 6-8 th centuries, founded before the arrival of our lands and the Vikings and the Khazars. This is quite a centres such points of growth of the early statehood.

So I’m leaning to the conclusion that statehood was grown here, due to the socio-economic development of the tribes themselves, which, according to Nestor, were twelve. Ruled large tribal education – as the chronicle calls them, “the reign” – is of particular fortified centers, one of which was Kiev.

Peter Shcheglov (photo by Alex wolf/RIA Novosti)

The Vikings are essentially built into the system, which was already in Russia, became princes, posadniks, tysyatsky, though at home they were called “lords” and “kings”. But Russia did not call some “Alstom”, and was the Principality. And the Varangian princes very quickly oslavyanilis. Already he was practically raised in a Slavic environment, married to Olga-the maid of Pskov. His son became the first Prince received the Slavic name Sviatoslav.

OPINION: AND what are your differences with the nationalists?

P. T.: any Disagreement I have with them is not! Nationalists do not store the studies of those issues that I’m exploring. When they swept all the guards and broke into the Russian cultural centre on the hem, I turned to them: “Let me tell you that in this book!” They are: “no need to tell us!” – “And you’ve already read?” “No, I have not read, but we know that you’re lying!” If people come with that attitude, they come not to discuss the differences, but just to disrupt the meeting. They have coped with their task.

I must say that for Ukraine this is not so news. They’re stripped and performances, and meeting of the courts, where to get careless with “volunteers”. It is such today accepted the norm, a kind of ataman. Can’t understand why our government, the President is not paying attention. Maybe because in large part thanks to these people and they came to power. But still need to rebuild, westernized.

OPINION: according to reports, the nationalists showed you and specific claims…

P. T.: as far As one could tell from their screams, they associate the “Russian land” with Russia, not with Ukraine. Here you say, does not admit that it was Ukraine that the Ukrainians were! I tried to explain to them that Russia is our common that at the time, neither Russia wasn’t, neither Ukraine nor Belarus. But they never got it. They think that the Ukrainians as a species have been for centuries. But if Tolochko do not agree, then it is unpatriotic.

OPINION: Led a group of rioters Kiev city Council Deputy, member of the political Council of “Freedom” Igor Miroshnichenko. Judging by the photos, he is with you still communicated. What are you talking about?

P. T.: With this character I met in absentia, on TV, when I saw they together with people’s artist Benyuk beat the Director of the First national channel of Ukraine. At me then they made a very bad impression. But I could not think that something similar then run himself. This man with women’s hair for some reason decided that you can be the judge for everyone – for the Director of the channel, and for the academic historian, although I don’t know what it is with the education that he graduated. The only thing he kept repeating, like a mantra: “You are Ukrainian! You the crest!” He I shouted. So he’s Ukrainian, he has the right to judge, and I’m the defendant, the crest. This is the only that screamed. Well, with a wave of his hand the hall chanted: “shame! Shame!”

Physically everything was correct, nobody touched me. But in the moral – it was brutal, and I was ashamed of them. I tried to reason with them: “Guys, let’s talk!” Nothing! Blind insanity. Well, they came to do the job. Someone paid for it. 40 people came by bus – it is clear that the event was organized. Well, what to do? In this reality we live in today.

Lookbut you have opponents who do not hit glass, and arguing on the scientific level. For example, the historian Stanislav Kulchytsky, who said in an interview to our newspaper, “we stole the name, we are Russians.”

P. T.: It’s a walking point of view of many nationalists. It is incorrect because Russia was a common name. In post-Mongol time formed three nationalities: the great Russian, little Russian, Belarusian. Since the Russian state was structured, it continued to develop with the same name. However, the name was transformed in the Greek version. “Russia” – so we called the Greeks. Belarus was not structured, but the Belarusians somehow managed to retain the title. And we very long time were called Russians – and even in the times of Bohdan Khmelnytsky. But then our intellectuals, trying to realize themselves as something separate from Russia, beginning more to use the word “Ukraine”. The fact that we – “we, in fact, owe the revolutionary Democrats, starting with Taras Shevchenko, Drahomanov, to a lesser extent, Kostomarov, and others. Such a romantic interpretation of the territory of Ukraine is wholly owned by us. None of us “Russian” names don’t steal. We voluntarily gave it up.

OPINION: Secretary of security Council Alexander Turchinov in April, said: “the Ukrainians had a state with its capital in Kiev long before the rise of the Moscow ulus of the Golden Horde”…

P. T.: When the regions, and Kiev was one of the uluses, if so to speak. Indeed, for some time, we came under the Golden Horde. And as a matter of fact, if Turchynov is a historian, not an economist and a Protestant pastor, he would know that Moscow was at the time part of the General state of the Russian space. It originated in the 12th century – of course, later than Kiev, and was not the capital, and statehood was gained not because of the Tatars, and through internal development. Well, later in Kiev. What’s wrong with that?

OPINION: the Current political and moral atmosphere interfere with your scientific work?

P. T.: My beliefs come from the knowledge of the subject, knowledge of the sources. I have many years of more living in the era of Kievan Rus, than it is today. I investigate the annals, follow the monologues. I am travelling with the princes, accompanying them in their campaigns and battles, debating with the scribes…

In my professional work all of this impact can not. But it will affect the younger generation. I’m middle-aged and some have the same name, and academician not only in Ukraine. Can you imagine if a young historian will so pressure? They are the same it’ll just break. And tomorrow he will write only what they want to hear. This is tragic! As a result, we could lose young academic generation.

LOOK: Even the robbers reproached you that you have published a book on “Russian money”.

P. T.: this is largely true. Well, if I published in English, they would have shouted? They live with American money, then publish a lot of literature. And nothing bad in it do not see. The fact that the theme of the book of common, East Slavic, and interesting for Russia, for Ukraine and for Belarus. I see nothing in this to be ashamed of. If a book someone has financed in Ukraine, for God’s sake! But nobody wants.

It is necessary to speak about the book, whether good or bad, not about what money it was published or where it was presented. They shouted to me: what did you not present the book “Palace “Ukraine”?! Well, it’s all nonsense. “Palace” is a hall for four thousand people. Unless a scientist can afford to present his book? In General, then converged at one point hatred of me and hatred of Russia.