Are American Democrats turning to Socialism?

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But instead of concentrating on individual instances of credit-worthy minorities being
discriminated against, it enforced sweeping policies designed to arm-twist banks into
making loans available to practically anyone—even those with horrible credit ratings.

“In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending,”
the Times warned toward the end of 1999,

Sinner saved by grace

Well I supose it depends on how you feel about getting better educated and going into debt. Do you see wal mart as an enemy of working class people? How about Harley Davidson moving to Asia? The belief we could work 30 years in a factory, pay for a house in full and retire at 65? That what I was taught.

Senior Member

Well I supose it depends on how you feel about getting better educated and going into debt. Do you see wal mart as an enemy of working class people? How about Harley Davidson moving to Asia? The belief we could work 30 years in a factory, pay for a house in full and retire at 65? That what I was taught.

What I see about Walmart---------
They employ many people who can not find employment elsewhere. (Retired, uneducated, low IQ's)
They pay better than any other employer for like work. (Retail-- $12 to $17 per hour in my area.)
Here in Arkansas they pay higher wages than Kroger that is unionized.
They give employee discounts and bonuses.
They offer affordable product to people who do not make much money.
As for HD, rich man's toys. Who can afford one any way unless you are rich.
I do know of many who worked in factories, paid for a house and retired at 65.

Sinner saved by grace

Here in Texoma Wal mart pays $9.00 per hr, they give their employees a max of 25 hrs per week and an application for medicaide and food stamps, on the first day. They prohibit non supervisory employees from working full time due to disability & unemployment insurance concerns and there are more.

Harley Davidson I really agree with you but they are a symtom of work leaving the country, that's why I brought it up. I feel wal mart is an enemy because they import most of their saleable goods from 3rd world countries. They are not the only ones but they are the biggest. Factory farms and chicken ranches that employ mainly people with temporary visas and undocumented workers are also a threat. Mainly in the southwest where the population is highest a 3 bedroom home on a residential lot costs 1/4>1/2 million dollars. Most of the shipyards are gone, Aircraft factories have left for states where people will work for $20>25 per hour and be glad to get it. Heck a decent car in Oklahoma costs a years wages. In my zip code the average income for a two income family is a little over $46,000 per year but a VW costs over 20, for a stripped down model. I haven't known anybody that owns a mortgage free home in years.

Besides military, Goodyear pays about $20 an hour, fire and police are the highest paid in town. Teachers are next and most of them have two jobs. I agree also we can't just hand money out like halloween candy but our country is in a jam and so sre the people. People are leaving college $100,000 in debt. That's why students are mad.

Most people live in citys now and wouldn't know how to milk a cow. Heck in my hometown cows were outlawed about 1968 and only the very rich have horses, in the gated community a town over. Do we need to teach people how to farm again, how to manage land or conserve resorces? Probably. Are kids being taught that in schools today, except in special ed classes? NO.

Do you have a plan? i'd really like to hear it. Really. How would you put America back to work, $17 an hour wouldn't get much where I've lived, LA, SAN DIEGO, LAS VEGAS and now texoma, Comanche County OK. I'm 64.

Sinner saved by grace

What I see about Walmart---------
They employ many people who can not find employment elsewhere. (Retired, uneducated, low IQ's)
They pay better than any other employer for like work. (Retail-- $12 to $17 per hour in my area.)
Here in Arkansas they pay higher wages than Kroger that is unionized.
They give employee discounts and bonuses.
They offer affordable product to people who do not make much money.
As for HD, rich man's toys. Who can afford one any way unless you are rich.
I do know of many who worked in factories, paid for a house and retired at 65.

Senior Member

Here in Texoma Wal mart pays $9.00 per hr, they give their employees a max of 25 hrs per week and an application for medicaide and food stamps, on the first day. They prohibit non supervisory employees from working full time due to disability & unemployment insurance concerns and there are more.

Harley Davidson I really agree with you but they are a symtom of work leaving the country, that's why I brought it up. I feel wal mart is an enemy because they import most of their saleable goods from 3rd world countries. They are not the only ones but they are the biggest. Factory farms and chicken ranches that employ mainly people with temporary visas and undocumented workers are also a threat. Mainly in the southwest where the population is highest a 3 bedroom home on a residential lot costs 1/4>1/2 million dollars. Most of the shipyards are gone, Aircraft factories have left for states where people will work for $20>25 per hour and be glad to get it. Heck a decent car in Oklahoma costs a years wages. In my zip code the average income for a two income family is a little over $46,000 per year but a VW costs over 20, for a stripped down model. I haven't known anybody that owns a mortgage free home in years.

Besides military, Goodyear pays about $20 an hour, fire and police are the highest paid in town. Teachers are next and most of them have two jobs. I agree also we can't just hand money out like halloween candy but our country is in a jam and so sre the people. People are leaving college $100,000 in debt. That's why students are mad.

Most people live in citys now and wouldn't know how to milk a cow. Heck in my hometown cows were outlawed about 1968 and only the very rich have horses, in the gated community a town over. Do we need to teach people how to farm again, how to manage land or conserve resorces? Probably. Are kids being taught that in schools today, except in special ed classes? NO.

Do you have a plan? i'd really like to hear it. Really. How would you put America back to work, $17 an hour wouldn't get much where I've lived, LA, SAN DIEGO, LAS VEGAS and now texoma, Comanche County OK. I'm 64.

You might want to check your facts on Walmart. They increased the starting wage to $12 per hour this year.
Ask yourself this --could those working for $9 per hour find work anywhere else?
Retail is always the lowest paying jobs.
As for Walmart importing everything, would not happen if people refused to by it. The are just giving the public what they demand.

The only reason a house cost $500,000 is because some people are willing to pay that price
The higher the pay scale, the higher the cost of everything.

There is no reason for a kid to leave collage with a $100,000 debt. Again, that is a choice.
Both my kids graduated in 4 years with a masters degree and debt free. They went to learn, not party.
They chose a collage close to home. Drove 60 miles one way every day. Worked part-time. And we started saving when they were born.

Why would anyone buy a $20,000 VW. Why buy any new car. There are a ton of good used cars out there.
And if you save and pay cash you can really fine good values for $4000 to $5000.
May not be fancy or pretty, but good transportation.

Do I have a plan. Yes, I did 55 years ago.
Work hard. Save some of every check. Live within my means. Never buy on credit.
If I could not pay cash, I went without.

I know there are exceptions, but most people create their own problems.

Senior Member

If people really want to change things, learn to say no to imported product.
Say no to a house or car that is over priced.
Say no the the employer who does not pay a livable wage.
Don't shop at a place that does not pay a livable wage.
Say not to that credit card offered by your bank.

Of course, that will never happen.
Everybody wants to by it cheap, buy it now on credit, and then complain, complain, complain about how the government has failed them.

Sinner saved by grace

You might want to check your facts on Walmart. They increased the starting wage to $12 per hour this year.
Ask yourself this --could those working for $9 per hour find work anywhere else?
Retail is always the lowest paying jobs.
As for Walmart importing everything, would not happen if people refused to by it. The are just giving the public what they demand.

The only reason a house cost $500,000 is because some people are willing to pay that price
The higher the pay scale, the higher the cost of everything.

There is no reason for a kid to leave collage with a $100,000 debt. Again, that is a choice.
Both my kids graduated in 4 years with a masters degree and debt free. They went to learn, not party.
They chose a collage close to home. Drove 60 miles one way every day. Worked part-time. And we started saving when they were born.

Why would anyone buy a $20,000 VW. Why buy any new car. There are a ton of good used cars out there.
And if you save and pay cash you can really fine good values for $4000 to $5000.
May not be fancy or pretty, but good transportation.

Do I have a plan. Yes, I did 55 years ago.
Work hard. Save some of every check. Live within my means. Never buy on credit.
If I could not pay cash, I went without.

I know there are exceptions, but most people create their own problems.

my daughter worked for walmarts/sams club, she's a certified medical and billing assistant but it barely pays much, she got a job as a customer service rep working for Obama care [it was ridiculos.]

We left california and vegas due to the cost of living. In vegas a 2 bdrm. in a seedy neighborhood costs $800 per mo. in long beach that'll get a 1 bdrm in gangland. It's called white flight. We got out. I don't know about where you live but around here, there is mostly military related jobs and easy credit for that same reason, cars are sky high, I don't have one. I wouldn't spend 20 grand on a bug either, I think it's silly but people who drive 100 miles a day to go to work do. and they're worn out before the 5 or 7 year payment plan is over.

Our local college is 3 grand per semester so my grandson enlisted in the navy to become a nuclear engineer. A batchelors degree costs 24 grand here, Plus books, if they can get in without going to community college first.

Part of the problem is location, or should I say people not willing to leave highly populated areas to find a place where they can afford to live. That's what we did and were living like middle class people in California do on half of the money.

This is about socialism though and why people are fed up with a system where the top 1% earn more than the lower 50 or 60% They just can't do the math. My grand children went to an Obama, 'no child left behind school" All they had to do to pass was show up! Boy were they shocked when they got here.

I was taught in school that Social Security was my retirement account. My dad and all of my uncles retired on it. My father worked 38 years for star kist pressure cooking tuna cans.

I think we need a huge national re-education plan to teach youth that the Roosevelt era dynamics have reached the end of their course and we have to find something to make that the rest of the world wants to buy or else we'll be no better off than we were 100 years ago.

well besides dinner and a few laps around the yard, I''ve been working on this 3 hours now. I fou think FDR was a socialist, then I guess I'm one too however I have come to realize that taxing the rich to help the poor dosn't work any more. So I'll let it go from here. BTW My grand mother had a photo of FDR on the mantle between JFK and JESUS. bob

Member

because capitalism has ran its course and is corrupt the capitalist pigs run this country. 9% for them 2% for you oh but we going to take your 2% away we just needed to do that to get your yes on the biggest tax scam ever. keep sucking n that poison candy.

Senior Member

my daughter worked for walmarts/sams club, she's a certified medical and billing assistant but it barely pays much, she got a job as a customer service rep working for Obama care [it was ridiculos.]

We left california and vegas due to the cost of living. In vegas a 2 bdrm. in a seedy neighborhood costs $800 per mo. in long beach that'll get a 1 bdrm in gangland. It's called white flight. We got out. I don't know about where you live but around here, there is mostly military related jobs and easy credit for that same reason, cars are sky high, I don't have one. I wouldn't spend 20 grand on a bug either, I think it's silly but people who drive 100 miles a day to go to work do. and they're worn out before the 5 or 7 year payment plan is over.

Our local college is 3 grand per semester so my grandson enlisted in the navy to become a nuclear engineer. A batchelors degree costs 24 grand here, Plus books, if they can get in without going to community college first.

Part of the problem is location, or should I say people not willing to leave highly populated areas to find a place where they can afford to live. That's what we did and were living like middle class people in California do on half of the money.

This is about socialism though and why people are fed up with a system where the top 1% earn more than the lower 50 or 60% They just can't do the math. My grand children went to an Obama, 'no child left behind school" All they had to do to pass was show up! Boy were they shocked when they got here.

I was taught in school that Social Security was my retirement account. My dad and all of my uncles retired on it. My father worked 38 years for star kist pressure cooking tuna cans.

I think we need a huge national re-education plan to teach youth that the Roosevelt era dynamics have reached the end of their course and we have to find something to make that the rest of the world wants to buy or else we'll be no better off than we were 100 years ago.

well besides dinner and a few laps around the yard, I''ve been working on this 3 hours now. I fou think FDR was a socialist, then I guess I'm one too however I have come to realize that taxing the rich to help the poor dosn't work any more. So I'll let it go from here. BTW My grand mother had a photo of FDR on the mantle between JFK and JESUS. bob

You said colleges in your area cost $3000 per semester or $24,000 for a 4 year batchlor degree.
So why would a person leave with a $100,000 debt?
$3000 a semester, $6000 a year is about $125 a week.
A 20 a week part time job at Walmart at $9 per hour would pay for that degree.
Any one who can not work 20 hours a week and keep up their studies should not be in college.

Senior Member

because capitalism has ran its course and is corrupt the capitalist pigs run this country. 9% for them 2% for you oh but we going to take your 2% away we just needed to do that to get your yes on the biggest tax scam ever. keep sucking n that poison candy.

Sinner saved by grace

You said colleges in your area cost $3000 per semester or $24,000 for a 4 year batchlor degree.
So why would a person leave with a $100,000 debt?
$3000 a semester, $6000 a year is about $125 a week.
A 20 a week part time job at Walmart at $9 per hour would pay for that degree.
Any one who can not work 20 hours a week and keep up their studies should not be in college.

20 x $9 will not pay for rent, food, books, fuel, medical, clothes, electricity, transportation, insurance and tuition. Not here, not anywhere I've ever been. Do you think that most parents are willing to foot the bill now days. Many of the ones who do are co-dependent but they more likely will be against any thing that causes children to leave the home, that's why so many 30 year olds still live with their mothers and most are men.

The colleges I'm familar with are in California and if a person has to have a full time job while going to get a batchelors degree it takes more like seven years especially if they use the student loan for support as well, like most do. Is if a batchelors degree was enough to be much more than a school teacher. And $24,000 is a fortune to a family of 4 that makes $50- 70,000 a year combined, before taxes and pays $1000+ rent, which is very low. +$300 utilities. trash & sewer not to mention cable monopolies, phone etc. Maybe you don't have these kinds of expenses, but at least 50% of us do. People don't get dowrys any more and start married life with a pay check. A suit case and a set of old dishes and an old car, 50% either have a child or are pregnant.. I don't feel sorry for parents that WON'T help their children, I feel sorry for their children though. People start off life on the wrong foot to begin with more often than not and by the time their children are grown its time for them to either leave or get a job and help relieve the finincial burden that they are on the family. So most choose to leave. Do I expect Christians to help? YES!

Student loans are a scam, borrowing money to pay tuition rent and other of life's expenses then paying interest on the money borrowed to service the loan because family can't or won't send their kids to college or because they moved out when they became adults. Is a big sophisticated con game. They probably learned from their parents that credIt is good, the more the better and many have credit cards at 19 or 20.

This is why people are turning to socialism, mainly people under 30. That's not me. I supported the new deal but I voted for Ford, a Republican, because he stopped spending money on Viet Nam and turned the nation around. I'm proud to live in a nation where through hard work, common sense and a tight wallet people can still get ahead or at least stay afloat. I think that if the nation was really a Democraticly run republic that the latest banking and wall street disasters would have put the perps. Under a prison somewhere. And those on capitol hill that call themselves Democrats are in fact corporate socialists, more conscerned with the wealth of their donors than the good of the people that voted for them.

I've learned to lower my expectations and accept things that I can't change but to change that I can. People don't learn this much any more. The so-called democratic socialists are rebelling against the corporate socialists, both so called Democrats and Republicans who don't see our so called leaders as servants of the majority but rather as rulers for the rich minority that must be obeyed, Fascists in other words. Antifa are more Marxist than most people understand or will admit and are willing to start a riot or even a civil war to get attention. Just like Lennon did 100 years ago. That is straight out communism.

There is a difference between the labels that are attached to groups than what the words really mean. The young learn much more political science than folks of my generation did. I'm a baby boomer and most of you are more gen-x or younger. Libertarians are closer to anarchists than modern socialists are, yeah they believe in freedom of speach, as long as they agree with it, they don't believe in govmt. regulations like the epa, don't believe in taxes or publicly funded roads. The younger see through this charade and know that Ayn Rand was a narcissist who wouldn't feel compelled to help somone out of quicksand if it would get her clothes dirty and dosn't believe in civic responsibility. The younger know what the words really mean and struggle against those who still use them as labels and divide our nation, the U.S.A. that is.

I remember McCarthyism, the Red scare, the Cuban missle crisis. An uncle bought a bomb shelter, lol, which might have been useful if he lived away from ground zero. We used to practice hiding under our desks in school in case the commies attacked. Schools closed when JFK was murdered, for 3 days in LA at least then 5 years later Martin and Bobby, our Heros, killed in cold blood because they wanted to level the playing field a little. We went to Viet Nam to prevent the commies from taking over the world just to find out the truth when the pentagon papers were leaked and also found out that the 1972 Presidential election was rigged. Watergate and the Chicago seven proved that! What was then TOP SECRET is now public knowlege. Most of us know we have been decieved and most Christians realize, it's by powers and principalities way beyond our comprehension! It's going to get worse.

Most adults know that the communist boogy man is dead and burried, but his ghost still lingers and is dragged out of the grave often when those with a vested interest in tyrany like the political, oil, chemical, banking and military industrial maniacs want to scare us into submission and obedience and make us worship the, ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR,. This is truly IDOL WORSHIP! In one of the worst forms. Even atheists recognize this.

If you love the USA more than the Lord, your not a friend of mine. If you think that capitolism for its own sake is Godly, you are decieved. If you think that being white makes you superior, you are in league with the enemy! If you are in league with the ruling class, I think you are the enemy.

Member

You might want to check your facts on Walmart. They increased the starting wage to $12 per hour this year.
Ask yourself this --could those working for $9 per hour find work anywhere else?
Retail is always the lowest paying jobs.
As for Walmart importing everything, would not happen if people refused to by it. The are just giving the public what they demand.

The only reason a house cost $500,000 is because some people are willing to pay that price
The higher the pay scale, the higher the cost of everything.

There is no reason for a kid to leave collage with a $100,000 debt. Again, that is a choice.
Both my kids graduated in 4 years with a masters degree and debt free. They went to learn, not party.
They chose a collage close to home. Drove 60 miles one way every day. Worked part-time. And we started saving when they were born.

Why would anyone buy a $20,000 VW. Why buy any new car. There are a ton of good used cars out there.
And if you save and pay cash you can really fine good values for $4000 to $5000.
May not be fancy or pretty, but good transportation.

Do I have a plan. Yes, I did 55 years ago.
Work hard. Save some of every check. Live within my means. Never buy on credit.
If I could not pay cash, I went without.

I know there are exceptions, but most people create their own problems.

Member

years ago when wal marts was first on the rise and was abusing their employees and importing everything under the sun to under mind other american retail business.which they did causing them to start to import to keep up. the unions fought against them but the republican party called the unions communist. Of Course Wal Marts was giving the republicans a lot of money to say the lest. Well this of course cause the down fall of the factories here in america as the unions said would happen. Now all of a sudden we going to do something to late tariffs will cause more damage then good Should of imposed them along time ago then it would of done something

The same with nafta when it was in the making durn the Bush senior years ( although Clinton sign it into law) the unions where called evil by the republicans oh well the story has been written.

Senior Member

20 x $9 will not pay for rent, food, books, fuel, medical, clothes, electricity, transportation, insurance and tuition. Not here, not anywhere I've ever been. Do you think that most parents are willing to foot the bill now days. Many of the ones who do are co-dependent but they more likely will be against any thing that causes children to leave the home, that's why so many 30 year olds still live with their mothers and most are men.

The colleges I'm familar with are in California and if a person has to have a full time job while going to get a batchelors degree it takes more like seven years especially if they use the student loan for support as well, like most do. Is if a batchelors degree was enough to be much more than a school teacher. And $24,000 is a fortune to a family of 4 that makes $50- 70,000 a year combined, before taxes and pays $1000+ rent, which is very low. +$300 utilities. trash & sewer not to mention cable monopolies, phone etc. Maybe you don't have these kinds of expenses, but at least 50% of us do. People don't get dowrys any more and start married life with a pay check. A suit case and a set of old dishes and an old car, 50% either have a child or are pregnant.. I don't feel sorry for parents that WON'T help their children, I feel sorry for their children though. People start off life on the wrong foot to begin with more often than not and by the time their children are grown its time for them to either leave or get a job and help relieve the finincial burden that they are on the family. So most choose to leave. Do I expect Christians to help? YES!

Student loans are a scam, borrowing money to pay tuition rent and other of life's expenses then paying interest on the money borrowed to service the loan because family can't or won't send their kids to college or because they moved out when they became adults. Is a big sophisticated con game. They probably learned from their parents that credIt is good, the more the better and many have credit cards at 19 or 20.

This is why people are turning to socialism, mainly people under 30. That's not me. I supported the new deal but I voted for Ford, a Republican, because he stopped spending money on Viet Nam and turned the nation around. I'm proud to live in a nation where through hard work, common sense and a tight wallet people can still get ahead or at least stay afloat. I think that if the nation was really a Democraticly run republic that the latest banking and wall street disasters would have put the perps. Under a prison somewhere. And those on capitol hill that call themselves Democrats are in fact corporate socialists, more conscerned with the wealth of their donors than the good of the people that voted for them.

I've learned to lower my expectations and accept things that I can't change but to change that I can. People don't learn this much any more. The so-called democratic socialists are rebelling against the corporate socialists, both so called Democrats and Republicans who don't see our so called leaders as servants of the majority but rather as rulers for the rich minority that must be obeyed, Fascists in other words. Antifa are more Marxist than most people understand or will admit and are willing to start a riot or even a civil war to get attention. Just like Lennon did 100 years ago. That is straight out communism.

There is a difference between the labels that are attached to groups than what the words really mean. The young learn much more political science than folks of my generation did. I'm a baby boomer and most of you are more gen-x or younger. Libertarians are closer to anarchists than modern socialists are, yeah they believe in freedom of speach, as long as they agree with it, they don't believe in govmt. regulations like the epa, don't believe in taxes or publicly funded roads. The younger see through this charade and know that Ayn Rand was a narcissist who wouldn't feel compelled to help somone out of quicksand if it would get her clothes dirty and dosn't believe in civic responsibility. The younger know what the words really mean and struggle against those who still use them as labels and divide our nation, the U.S.A. that is.

I remember McCarthyism, the Red scare, the Cuban missle crisis. An uncle bought a bomb shelter, lol, which might have been useful if he lived away from ground zero. We used to practice hiding under our desks in school in case the commies attacked. Schools closed when JFK was murdered, for 3 days in LA at least then 5 years later Martin and Bobby, our Heros, killed in cold blood because they wanted to level the playing field a little. We went to Viet Nam to prevent the commies from taking over the world just to find out the truth when the pentagon papers were leaked and also found out that the 1972 Presidential election was rigged. Watergate and the Chicago seven proved that! What was then TOP SECRET is now public knowlege. Most of us know we have been decieved and most Christians realize, it's by powers and principalities way beyond our comprehension! It's going to get worse.

Most adults know that the communist boogy man is dead and burried, but his ghost still lingers and is dragged out of the grave often when those with a vested interest in tyrany like the political, oil, chemical, banking and military industrial maniacs want to scare us into submission and obedience and make us worship the, ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR,. This is truly IDOL WORSHIP! In one of the worst forms. Even atheists recognize this.

If you love the USA more than the Lord, your not a friend of mine. If you think that capitolism for its own sake is Godly, you are decieved. If you think that being white makes you superior, you are in league with the enemy! If you are in league with the ruling class, I think you are the enemy.

When you said "colleges in your area", I assumed you meant in OK. where you now live.
I assumed you meant within driving distance of the students home.
I assumed that the student would live at home and his only expese was the $3000 a semester all the money he would need.
I guess I assumed wrong.

My kids lived at home when they went to college. I supported them just as I did when they were in high school.
They drove 60 miles to college every day. Worked after school and then drove 60 miles home every day.
The only extra expense was school and gas.
There are many kids doing just what my kids did.
I just do not buy the belief that the only way to go to college is to go onto debt.

Senior Member

$12 starting wage at Walmart is $4 more that at Kroger and Kroger employees have to pay union dues.
What would you call a fair STARTING pay to run a register or sweep the floor?
And remember this, when you make a purchase , that pay is included in the price.
So how much more are you willing to pay just so that clerk can make more money?

Member

$12 starting wage at Walmart is $4 more that at Kroger and Kroger employees have to pay union dues.
What would you call a fair STARTING pay to run a register or sweep the floor?
And remember this, when you make a purchase , that pay is included in the price.
So how much more are you willing to pay just so that clerk can make more money?

never heard of Kroger. and not sure about that 12.00 an hour at wal marts buddy of mine only making 10.00 and been there 4 years.
I would say a fair starting wage is around 12 to 15 depending with health care and paid time off and sick leave. the america way.

The average hourly wage for a Kroger bagger is around $8.00. Pay rates for Kroger baggers often increase with experience. In addition to base salary, Kroger offers excellent employment benefits. A qualified Kroger bagger may earn medical coverage, company-paid life insurance, 401(k) retirement plans, and paid time off.

Walmart Walmart Stocker salaries$10/hrWalmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$10/hrWalmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$26,506Walmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$1,593/mo without benefits and being a stocker is hard work I do it at home depot

Walmart Cart Pusher salaries$9/hrCostco Wholesale Cart Pusher salaries$12/hrSam's Club Cart Pusher salaries$9/hrWalmart Cart Pusher salaries$18,575
difference between union and nonunion. I was a union worker for 30 years and 95% of the stuff they say about unions are a lie.

Senior Member

never heard of Kroger. and not sure about that 12.00 an hour at wal marts buddy of mine only making 10.00 and been there 4 years.
I would say a fair starting wage is around 12 to 15 depending with health care and paid time off and sick leave. the america way.

The average hourly wage for a Kroger bagger is around $8.00. Pay rates for Kroger baggers often increase with experience. In addition to base salary, Kroger offers excellent employment benefits. A qualified Kroger bagger may earn medical coverage, company-paid life insurance, 401(k) retirement plans, and paid time off.

Walmart Walmart Stocker salaries$10/hrWalmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$10/hrWalmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$26,506Walmart WalMart Overnight Stocker salaries$1,593/mo without benefits and being a stocker is hard work I do it at home depot

Walmart Cart Pusher salaries$9/hrCostco Wholesale Cart Pusher salaries$12/hrSam's Club Cart Pusher salaries$9/hrWalmart Cart Pusher salaries$18,575
difference between union and nonunion. I was a union worker for 30 years and 95% of the stuff they say about unions are a lie.

Kroger is second only to Walmart in grocery sales. Operates under several names, but Kroger here in Arkansas.
Kroger employees are unionized, pay union dues, but make less than Walmart.
Walmart here in Arkansas starts all new employees at $12 per hour. My neighbors wife has worked at Walmart for 10 years and makes over $17 an hour as a night stocker.
She gets paid holidays, 3 weeks vacation, employee discounts and receive over $2000 in bonus pay last year.
Don't know why your friend only makes $10 per hour.
Don't rely on the internet for information on pay scales.
The closes Walmart to me is 35 miles, so I very seldom shop there. Maybe 2 or 3 times a year.
I have never been in a union nor have I dealt with one as a business owner.
My only concern with unions is when a person is forced to join or pay dues just to work.
If you want to join a union, that is your choice, but no one should be forced to join or pay dues just to have a job.

I think a lot of things should be considered when determining a starting wage. One size does not fit all.

Sinner saved by grace

$12 starting wage at Walmart is $4 more that at Kroger and Kroger employees have to pay union dues.
What would you call a fair STARTING pay to run a register or sweep the floor?
And remember this, when you make a purchase , that pay is included in the price.
So how much more are you willing to pay just so that clerk can make more money?

Ok, I'm with you now, I was speaking on a more national scale, where most people live in towns of 100,000 or more, or cities of 1million or more, and that is why we came to OK. We got real, most people aren't willing to do that. They were born and raised in places where convience stores are 1/4 mile apart and busses run 24 hrs a day and the cost of living grows 50% faster than the wages do. Here a single person can live on $12 per hr @ 40 hrs per week. But not in a medium size place with a population of 500,000 people, heck my hometown has about 75,000 people and it isn't even on most maps. People don't want to leave their comfort zone, friends and family to do what we did. Between my retirement, VA disability and my daughters income we bring in a tad over $46,000 gross a year. Which is fine, here.

I wasn't complaining about our circumstances. I used what I personaly know or knew to be true just a few months ago,to me 2016 was just a few months ago to me. My cost of living hasn't changed much, neither has my income. I'm not struggling to get by with what little I get any more, and I don't get waken by gun shots and sirens very often but that's why we came here.

How much would I pay for someone to someone to run a cash register for me. Well if they proved to be honest, responsible and trust worthy, that they can work alone, providing we had the traffic and income possibly prevailing wage + 40 percent or so, but certanly no snowflakes that will abandon ship if their relief calls in sick or allows them to work if that person should show up drunk to work. I would reward responsibility and people willing to work late, show up early and stifle their complaints.

Sweeping floors is quite a different matter, I would most likely never pay more than more than the prevailing wage but junkies, illegals, drunks, gamblers and all kinds of reprobates take these jobs. They live commune style sharing bottles, cigarettes, needles, sex partners and disease. They are a blight on on the nation.

The minimum wage is totaly unfair on a national level. people in Montana that can carry loaded guns in their pick up trucks to hunt food are pitted against southern California where you need a permit to carry an unloaded gun and a lock blade knife in your pocket is a felony. It's considered a dagger by the law.

My father shoveled fish guts and steamed and processed them 38 years on union wages, bought 2 homes, out right, one on credit one cash with equity earned by making improvments and payibg his bills. Bought a new car, once in his life. Kept it 25 years, wore out 3 speedometers. Fortunately he had a son who became a professional mechanic [me]. He died broke, over $70,000 in medical bills which was above what his insurance allowed for personal assets. Mom gave up and died 5 weeks later. I had to go to a loan shark to get the money to sue the state for my inheritance, and sell it to pay off the loan shark and medical bills. I cashed out w/ 20 gs to spare bought a mobile home and a year later I was broke the mobile home was paid for. but space rent wasn't. They wanted to get rid of old beat up ugly coaches that lowered the property values so that new ones that cost over 200 k could replace us. The coaches were old, not movable any more and the whole community got evicted. Welcome to California!

Please don't try and second guess me, I did what I had to do at the time with the education I had to make it work. i was just a mechanic with trade school certificates in smog and brakes.

My heart bleeds for people that don't have the opertunity that I've had, my father told me straight out that he never expected me to finish high school and if I decided to drop out it would be ok, there was allways work in the [fish] cannerys it sucked.

Senior Member

Ok, I'm with you now, I was speaking on a more national scale, where most people live in towns of 100,000 or more, or cities of 1million or more, and that is why we came to OK. We got real, most people aren't willing to do that. They were born and raised in places where convience stores are 1/4 mile apart and busses run 24 hrs a day and the cost of living grows 50% faster than the wages do. Here a single person can live on $12 per hr @ 40 hrs per week. But not in a medium size place with a population of 500,000 people, heck my hometown has about 75,000 people and it isn't even on most maps. People don't want to leave their comfort zone, friends and family to do what we did. Between my retirement, VA disability and my daughters income we bring in a tad over $46,000 gross a year. Which is fine, here.

I wasn't complaining about our circumstances. I used what I personaly know or knew to be true just a few months ago,to me 2016 was just a few months ago to me. My cost of living hasn't changed much, neither has my income. I'm not struggling to get by with what little I get any more, and I don't get waken by gun shots and sirens very often but that's why we came here.

How much would I pay for someone to someone to run a cash register for me. Well if they proved to be honest, responsible and trust worthy, that they can work alone, providing we had the traffic and income possibly prevailing wage + 40 percent or so, but certanly no snowflakes that will abandon ship if their relief calls in sick or allows them to work if that person should show up drunk to work. I would reward responsibility and people willing to work late, show up early and stifle their complaints.

Sweeping floors is quite a different matter, I would most likely never pay more than more than the prevailing wage but junkies, illegals, drunks, gamblers and all kinds of reprobates take these jobs. They live commune style sharing bottles, cigarettes, needles, sex partners and disease. They are a blight on on the nation.

The minimum wage is totaly unfair on a national level. people in Montana that can carry loaded guns in their pick up trucks to hunt food are pitted against southern California where you need a permit to carry an unloaded gun and a lock blade knife in your pocket is a felony. It's considered a dagger by the law.

My father shoveled fish guts and steamed and processed them 38 years on union wages, bought 2 homes, out right, one on credit one cash with equity earned by making improvments and payibg his bills. Bought a new car, once in his life. Kept it 25 years, wore out 3 speedometers. Fortunately he had a son who became a professional mechanic [me]. He died broke, over $70,000 in medical bills which was above what his insurance allowed for personal assets. Mom gave up and died 5 weeks later. I had to go to a loan shark to get the money to sue the state for my inheritance, and sell it to pay off the loan shark and medical bills. I cashed out w/ 20 gs to spare bought a mobile home and a year later I was broke the mobile home was paid for. but space rent wasn't. They wanted to get rid of old beat up ugly coaches that lowered the property values so that new ones that cost over 200 k could replace us. The coaches were old, not movable any more and the whole community got evicted. Welcome to California!

Please don't try and second guess me, I did what I had to do at the time with the education I had to make it work. i was just a mechanic with trade school certificates in smog and brakes.

My heart bleeds for people that don't have the opertunity that I've had, my father told me straight out that he never expected me to finish high school and if I decided to drop out it would be ok, there was allways work in the [fish] cannerys it sucked.

You found a way. That is the America way. That is what is lacking today. When things do not go as expected people go with a hand out.
I was blessed by being born in the Arkansas hills. Never left. Never wanted to.
Never been to California. Don't think I missed anything by not going.