Thursday, December 7, 2006

Verizon doesn't know Dollars from Cents

I have a Verizon unlimited data plan in the U.S. and recently crossed the border to Canada. Prior to crossing the border I called customer service to find out what rates I'd be paying for voice and data. The data rate I was quoted was ".002 cents per kilobyte."

I was surprised at the rate so I confirmed it with the representative I spoke to, and she confirmed it "point zero zero two cents per kilobyte." I asked her to note that in my account.

I received my bill and was charged $.002/KB - which is dollars - "point zero zero 2 dollars per kilobyte". As it is translated to cents would be .2 cents or 2 tenths of a cent - which is a 100 times greater rate than I was quoted.

My bill for my data usage in Canada was therefore much greater than I had expected - using the quote I was provided before my usage.

I have tried to resolve this issue with customer service reps on the phone, but noone seems to see the difference between ".002 cents" and ".002 dollars".

Here is the audio of my most recent call with them on the matter. I started recording when they put on the supoervisor - I was a bit ticked at that point.

Who knew what confusion "$1 = 100 cents" could cause?

I'm still currently on the hook for the $71 and change. Hopefully someone at Verizon will figure this out and make ammends.

309 comments:

You could understand it if one maybe 2 of their people made the mistake. You could understand it if they realized the error after it was spelled out that they are mixing up their units of measurement. But after explaining it multiple times like that?

These people must be breathing some bad air or something. I mean, what if that manager calculates the pay cheques this way?

2) Calling $0.002 point zero zero two cents is a common mistake among common people, get used to it already.

3) You talked for almost 2 hours on the phone over a $71 bill.

4) You yourself made mutliple math mistakes while grilling people on math and the semantics of saying .002 cents.

5) You explained the problem like a drunk crackhead with a learning disability. When you talk in circles and don't clarify what you mean then common people don't understand you. I have no idea about the first x people you spoke with but I could have shown Andrea where she was wrong in under 1 minute. It appears as if you are doing this on purpose.

6) You are a patronizing asshole when you speak. Talking to people in the background with quotes similar to "Oh God" and "I'm teaching math here" is not going to make someone take the time to help you.

7) This post will probably get on the first page of Digg. When your blog posts are the same drivel that the guys with 4 hours of work and 16 hours of video games per day will Digg and praise you for then it's gay.

LOL mikeWhat makes the recording so interesting is I kept on thinking of the ways I would teach these people how to convert dollars into cents.

But the problem isn't that they don't know (as Andrea said, 1 cent is .01 dollars) the problem, as George hit on in the call, is a misunderstanding in terminology. These people are seeing $.002 on a screen and are calling it .002 cents.

My best attempt:

"Looking at the rate on your screen, it says .002 with a dollar sign in front of it, correct?"

"How many pennies are in .002 dollars?"

"Now, how many pennies are in .002 cents?"

Of course, these people seem to have a deep-seated mental block and I doubt any amount of explaining over the phone would change their minds.

That was the most frustrating thing in the world to listen to. There are a few different ways to try to get through to them that you didn't try, but I doubt they would have understood regardless.

The only thing I would have done was had her set up the conversion on paper.

.002cents/kb * $1/100cents * 3500kb = $0.7 (approx.)

As for tha, how would you like it if the government made a mistake like this on your taxes? Instead of paying say $5000 you would be paying $500,000 dollars, which you most likely would be unable to pay.

He also said multiple times in the audio that he understands that the rate is actually $0.002, but he was asked for clarification that it is 0.002cents and they noted it. They made the mistake and gave him misleading information, he should have to pay the rate they quoted.

Furthermore, he may have seemed patronizing by the end, but I listened for 5 minutes and I was frustrated beyond belief.

You could try asking them to put you on the line with someone who is good at math. But, failing that, you could try asking them what your bill *would* be if it was .002 dollars -- they would probably say $71.

As for tha - 1) Even if everyone is stupid, that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for accuracy in daily life.

2) The difference is that some people can admit when they make that mistake, and some can't.

3) The recording was actually only 27 minutes -- for some reason it displays as 2 hours in WMP.

4) See #2

5) Under 1 minute? How would you do that? You can't just make vague claims and then not back them up.

6) Those comments were when he was on hold -- he was as courteous as anyone can be expected to be when faced with a mistake that people adhere to with this level of stubbornness.

7) Ad hominem attack. Completely meaningless.

I wasn't a Verizon customer before, and now I will never be. This is as ridiculous as that tape of the retention department at AOL or wherever it was.

No wonder people are saying India and China are going to kick our asses next century. We need some congresscritters to hear this.

If anybody actually cares to get the rates it looks like this is the page.

It doesn't matter though - I had Verizon disconnect a client's DSL line when there was an order in for a line speed upgrade. I had the same kind of telephone ordeal. As I was on the line the speed upgrade order disappeared from the "your status" page, so they can claim there was never an order placed (but then couldn't explain why it was disconnected... heh). They're monopolistic scoundrels and are hiring the cheapest employees they can find to maximize their revenues at your expense.

Perfect example of Marketing / Accounting trying to stick it to the customer by using a rarely used expression ($.002) to make it look cheaper then it really is ....

... but then having it come back around to (eventually) bite then because the agents are being tricked the same way it's intended to trick the customer.

Might I suggest getting an e-mail address for the manager and writing the equation out the way they are explaining it (.002 cents x 35894bytes = 71.786 dollars) , and then ask the question "Based on the equation above, where does the word 'dollar' come from?"

Or have them conference in their accounting department.. They *should* see the difference, or otherwise that might be an interesting investigation into accounting of Verizon!

good luck, it's going to be a fun battle as it shows the flaws in the education system when it comes to decimals.

George you are amazing...by all rights your head should have exploded about 5 minutes into this conversation. (BTW my 4th grade daughter thought this was as funny/horrible as I did...but I doubt that phone customer service is in her future)I laughed the whole time, because I have had far too many experiences like this. Part of the problem is that there's no reality check going on --the time that the water company charged me $7,000 (instead of $70) after they "upgraded" their software, the very first person I talked to said "oh, that can't be right." But since they meant to bill you $71, they can't tell that they are wrong. (About 5 years ago I got a VERY polite phone call from a Verizon VP after a similar problem, that is why I'm still a Verizon customer.) Hopefully, you'll win in the end!

I contacted verizon through my account and informed them that I was considering changing phone service as a result of your treatment and wanted to be informed when your issue was resolved. You should encourage everyone who reads your blog and uses Verizon to do the same.

Sorry that you have to go thru all this. I wonder how many other people were quoted the rate of .002 cents and never realized that they were overpaying. (I smell class action lawsuit). At any rate I hope you can take a bit of solace in the fact that it supplied humor to my day, and maybe a good math example for some teachers. (I updated the link at my blog per your request.)

I used to teach high school math for 3 years. If I were still doing that, I would play this conversation in class and tell my students that if they learn one thing it would be the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars. In fact, that would be a question on every exam and any student who did not understand the difference between the two numbers would not pass my class. Seriously, I wanted to call the manager. Apparently, Verizon does stop working for you.

That's unbelievable. This story has got to get out. You did everything right, and they should correct the charge. I emailed the tonight show... hopefully Leno or someone will pick it up to show the stupidity that exists.

That was amazing. I can only recommend that he shouldn't have said the words "thousandths" or "hundredths." I think that's when he lost them the most. He should have probably continued down this path:

Is 20 dollars the same as 20 cents? No (obviously)Is 2 dollars the same as 2 cents? No.Is 0.2 dollars the same as 0.2 cents? No.Is 0.02 dollars the same as 0.02 cents? No.Is 0.002 dollars the same as 0.002 cents? Yes. D'oh!!!

Actually, I think the only problem is that Verizon won't take responsibility for misquoting the rate. It's not really a math issue, it's their unwillingness to make reparations for their many reps making the same mistake. They're saying, "This is our rate, and even though we told you it was lower, we are insisting that you pay the rate we actually charge."

Hey man, we all support you. We should all post and post so that this gets a lot of visibility and hopefully makes the mainstream news. If you ask me, this is borderline fraud and you should consider getting a lawyer involved.

The problem you were having over the phone boils down to a simple problem of reading $0.002 as ".002 cents" because if you saw something marked $0.75 for sale, you'd call it "75 cents." If you had said something like, 'the decimal is there for a reason; to show you that it's really saying three quarters of a dollar' and then asked, "are you looking at a figure that stands for 2 thousanths of a dollar, or 2 thousants of a cent?" you might have gotten the point across.

Hi!I find it really ludicrous that a big company like Verizon can't really get things this elementary straight. As for the employees, I feel that even though they understand things correctly, they perhaps act stupid (because it is possible if they acted smart and acted against Verizon, they may get fired).Finally, hats off to you (George, I guess I got it correct) because of your steadfastness and not giving in to these crazy demands. Hope you are able to reverse the charges- my good wishes are with you.

Holy crap. You need to sue for them wasting your time. I'm not even kidding -- this is beyond ridiculous. I've had some BAD experience with tech support, but this makes my experiences sound like...euphoric or something. I feel your pain!

Dude, that was awesome. Loved your comments about "ambiguity between 0.002 dollars and 0.002 cents in the educational system". I couldn't resist calling Andrea to give her my mathematician's expert knowledge about how she was confused, but sadly her voice mailbox is already full!

If you have a moral hang-up with taking this money, you then MUST donate it to a math-related education charity (I'm sure one exists); or to buy math books for a needy non-profit school. This will go a very LONG way. Be sure to get a good accountant and keep enough of the proceeds for any taxes and time spent.

-------Further statement of Verizon credibility:I once had Verizon home phone service, and when I moved out of state, it was literally IMPOSSIBLE to turn-off my service through the automated system; and customer service transferred me 9 times unsuccessfully. I had to certify a letter disputing my bill and requesting termination of account to resolve. They do this on purpose; hoping to skim those willing to cave in and pay.

Just letting you know that I thought this was so important, I sent this as an e-mail to the regional news affiliates out in Boston (where I live) after I heard of your ordeal with Verizon. I hope this gets resolved and I definately praise your resolve trying to fix this incompetence.

@James"everyone should know" is no excuse for misquoting a price. If I sold you a brand-new fancy computer for $.01, and then I charged you $100 for it, "everyone should know it wasn't a reasonable price" doesn't keep me from being a liar.And, also, as pointed out many times in the phone call, he had *no clue* what a reasonable amount of money to pay was. He was on an unlimited plan, is no expert on those sorts of things, and should not be expected to be one.Please consider that not everyone knows all about what is feasable in your area, just like you might not know what is a reasonable cost in an area far outside of your area of expertise.

what gets me personally is that that woman called it an "opinion"...and that she cut you off when you were so close.I think you should take it to small claims court, even only so that the company will take notice, and that these people might someday realize how badly they were mistreating you/how stupidly they were acting.I personally wouldn't feel at peace until I got recognition from some authority (the people you talked to themselves, or Verizon itself would be best, but unlikely, but a court would do just as well) that I wasn't a lone hold-out of sanity, that there were sane people with power to make a difference.It's somewhat saddening, what's happened; I would feel sorry for them if it weren't so angering.I hope they apologize, fully and sincerely and without the "half-back we're not going to really admit we were stupid" stuff.

@James: Listen to the call, then post comments. He told them he didn't have context, and given how quickly things change (it probably will be .002 cents someday soon) why should he?

@The people who think George knew full well ahead of time they'd just got it wrong: Only he knows. But data on your mobile is accessible to non-techies now. It would be easy for the unsuspecting to take the rate as quoted and run up a bill for hundreds of dollars, just by innocently and ignorantly believing what Verizon told them. Not everyone knows all the ins and outs of the technology they're now using. They might even say "Point zero zero two cents??" incredulously, get that vigorously confirmed by the rep, and shake their heads at how cheap all this stuff is getting.

@Verizon: Your position seems to be that George Vaccaro misunderstood the rate. No, he didn't. Your reps misquoted it and persist in doing so. It's important that you correct the quote your reps are giving by phone immediately. Every time you misquote the rate, you're laying another brick in the foundation of a class action lawsuit by your subscribers. "Point zero zero two cents" is not how you say $0.002. You can say (as George repeatedly does) "Point zero zero two dollars" but you probably want to avoid that word "dollars" because it sounds like a lot, so you might go with "Point two cents per kb" or "a fifth of a cent per kb" or "a penny for each 5kb billed in one kb units". Any of those, but not "Point zero zero two cents" -- that's inaccurate at best, misleading at worst.

You are handling this all wrong. This is fraud, pure and simple. You were quoted one price; you were charged another price. Stop talking on the phone and start sending letters. Find out Verizon's customer service address. Write a letter to your state's attorny general, and ask to file a fraud complaint against Verizon. Send a copy to Verizon's customer service department. Find out what state agency oversees Verizon in your state. File a fraud complaint with them, and send a copy to Verizon. Go to the FCC web site, and find out how to file a complaint against Verizon. File a complaint, and send a copy to Verizon. I think the FTC also takes consumer complaints, file a complaint with them, and send a copy to Verizon. See if they're members of the BBB; if so, file a complaint with them, and send a copy to Verizon. Write a letter explaining the issue to a good class action law firm like Milberg Weiss, send a copy to Verizon.

Before I continue with the reason why I wanted to post, I want you to know that I completely agree with your argument on this subject of units. Also for creating this blog to vent your frustrations with a corporation who will not admit that have made a mistake. You have great patience to persistently try to argue your point knowing that most likely Verizon will not change its position. I myself would have given up much earlier than you and just paid the $71.79. (To make my point to them though I would've found out where I can pay in person and pay them with 7179 pennies. Or better, ask them what percent of Verizon’s gross is $71.07 and then tell them to shove it while I promptly called their competitor. Or best, ask them if they would prefer 71.79 dollars or 71.79 cents shoved up their asses.)

Now getting to the original reason for my post: I became very frustrated while listening to your audio recording, because you were skipping a crucial link in your explanation of the difference between dollars and cents. “Per cent” means literally one one-hundredth part of what value is given; this is where we get the word “percent” (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/percent). So what you needed to do was have them connect how they knew that two cents is equal to $0.02, have them write it down on paper, and then work backwards to 0.002 cents with them like you were trying to do.

It is my opinion that you should never teach anyone Mathematics, or any subject for that matter, because you yourself have to learn that you have to bring the learning down to their level. Yes, I know that you should not have to teach adults this elementary stuff, but let’s face it, most people in this world are complete idiots, as I am daily reminded of this fact. Remember that smart people too can make a mistake with units, hence the Mars orbiter that crashed because one group at NASA used SI while the other used English units.

I was cracking up with laughter at Andrea when asked whether 0.002 dollars equals 0.002 cents, she responded, “Yes,” after just correctly responding to your previous two questions. Thanks for the laugh!

James, the bandwidth on my 3G service with Sprint (which I assume is similar to Verizon's 3G) maxes out at nearly 250 kB/sec, or 1 MB per 4 seconds. If you're near a tower and the network is not being used heavily, you can burn through 100 MB in a little less than 10 minutes. I think any normal person would consider $2 for 7-15 minutes of data to be reasonable.

Here's my two cents (sorry, couldn't resist the temptation...)I think you should have tried the following strategy:"So one Kilobyte would cost 0.002 cents, right?"rep would confirm"therefore, TEN kilobytes would cost 0.02 cents, true?"Allow them to think this one out thoroughly. multiplication isn't their strong side."so ONE HUNDRED kilobytes should cost 0.2 cents, yes?""and ONE THOUSAND kilobytes? 2 cents? good.""so TEN THOUSAND kilobytes would cost 20 cent?""Great! and I used close to 40 Thousand kilobytes, which is four times Ten thousand kilobytes, so it should cost four times 20 cents!"

And have them write these down in front of them so they see it before their own eyes.

Have sent it to CNN, Fox NEWS, some local spots and other BBs that I frequent, we need to get the word out cause this is NOT the only instance of ow deficiency in math affects all of us, but is a extremely well documented case.

This shouldn't all be pointed at Verizon; Verizon is no different from any other company. The fact is that people hired for the front lines (customer service) are ordinary people who can be had for cheap, and who have simple relationships with numbers - the left side is the dollars, and the right side is the cents. It would be helpful and useful to glean some understanding about people from this, rather than demand that everyone make the synaptic leap to unit conversion.

Keep in mind the customer service model works 99% of the time, so companies are probably not going to be too interested in doubling wages just to attract people with sharper math skills.

I would file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau (you can do it online) and also check to see if you can file a complaint with your state's Attorney General's Office (Consumer Protection Division, if it exists).

That will usually get things escalated to an 'Executive Response' center with reps who have more discretion in helping customers (and who hopefully understand money, fractions, and decimals).

I think the problem is they don't know how to say "0.002" without saying "cents". They think that for everything to the right of the decimal we say "cents", so for 1.01 we say "one dollar and one cent", for .01 we say "one cent", and when they get to the magical .001 they think we say "point zero zero one cents". They seem to have lost the concept that cents are a unit, a whole number, not a fraction.

I think you almost had them at ".10 is 10 cents." As a suggestion, try stepping them through this simple progression:

2.00 is the same as 200 cents

.20 is the same as 20 cents

.02 is the same as 2 cents

.002 is the same as .2 cents

(At this point they'll probably lose their minds, but you'll have to get them to bear with you for the next 2)

.0002 is the same as .02 cents

.00002 is the same as .002 cents

Try to get them to see the progression of the decimal points on both the left and right sides, and that the number on the left is always two decimals to the left of the number on the right.

Then point out that all the number on the left are dollars, just as all the numbers on the right are cents.

Actually, I think unless you really make a laughing stock of them, take it to the media, etc., they'll never get it.

I think it's obvious they're having decimal confusion. I would remove dollars from the table completely, and lead them down a path that only dealt with cents. Perhaps if you emailed them some straight up examples for them to verify on their own time. Maybe something like this:

Let's start with establishing the basic conversion if the rate was 2.000 cents per kilobyte. This an exercise designed to prove one thing. Multiplying cents * [any number] yields a number still in cents:2.000 cents per kilobyte, used 1 KB: 2*1 = 2 cents2.000 cents per kilobyte, used 10 KB: 2*10 = 20 cents2.000 cents per kilobyte, used 100 KB: 2*100 = 200 cents2.000 cents per kilobyte, used 1000 KB: 2*1000 = 2000 cents

Ok, now that we've established that cents*KB yields a total still in cents, lets move down from the hypothetical rate of 2.000 cents per kilobyte down to the rate quoted of 0.002 cents per kilobyte. Note that the total doesn't do a magical jump into dollars here either:

i learned the difference in 5th grade So hey if i ever fail at math in my country then i will come to the states and work for Verizon. apprently IQ's over 80 is not a need so i can probably make it to Supervisor in an hour.

I have a $20 a month "unlimited data" plan, using their 'EDGE' network. I do not get billed per kilobyte. No matter how much I use, I pay $20.

Last month, while driving to, staying at, and driving home from my in-laws' house for Thanksgiving, I downloaded an album on iTunes (32.7 MB,) plus a video podcast episode (62.7 MB,) as well as email with attachments totalling (going into my email program to calculate right now,) 39.8 MB. (Mostly not-very-funny video joke forwards.)

That was about 135 MB, not counting the web browsing. Not counting my usage earlier in the month. At $20, that comes to point zero one four cents per kilobyte; again, not counting any web browsing, or other monthly usage, which I know I would have used at least another few dozen MB, at minimum. Until RIGHT NOW, I would have had no idea how much the equivalent cost per kilobyte is.

As I pay $20 a month for 'unlimited' data transfer, ANY number that isn't obviously ridiculous ($1.00 per kilobyte, for example,) would have been as reasonable as any other number. If they had quoted me the (correct) point zero zero two DOLLARS per kilobyte, I would have accepted that as reasonable, and just watched my data transfer. If they had quoted me point zero zero two CENTS per kilobyte, I wouldn't have been too worried. I probably wouldn't have downloaded the video podcast episode, but would have likely downloaded everything else.

I worked on behalf of verizon for 13 months. They didn't even give us real bill figures, just some calculated average that in practice wasn't very accurate, I mean like a 20 dollar difference, as in a 40 dollar total spread. they didn't tell us how much the taxes were... We really didn't know anything. As soon as I saw this on ytmnd.com I knew I had to comment on this, it's just not surprising. I myself am a business student at the university, but I worked with high school drop outs, retired people, ... hell there were a hand full of drug dealers on those phones. they pay well, but you're really taking your chances on those calls. I got a seriously hilarious kick out of this. And BY THE WAY, getting a supervisor means NOTHING, they don't even make calls, they just walk around... The floor manager doesn't even know whats goin on... He told everyone to open their task manager with "Crtl+Alt+Tab" and was bewildered when it didn't work in practice, "this computer must be broken". If you get the floor manager on the phone it means you dragged him away from watching UFC on his computer in his office... I got a serious kick out of this call, hahaha I don't work there anymore but it's so funny to hear what we sounded like.

I know that sometimes explaining things the long, seemingly-slow way around, actually gets you to the end faster. For example, there are 15 steps below, each only taking a few seconds for anyone with a calculator to figure out (even a clueless tech support person), and going through all 15 steps could've taken mere minutes instead of over an hour. It seems like a lot of work, but you're done so much sooner.

.002 cents per KB. Let's double this, both sides.

Step 1) .004 cents per 2 KB.

Step 2) .008 cents per 4 KB.

Step 3) .016 cents per 8 KB.

Step 4) .032 cents per 16 KB.

Step 5) .064 cents per 32 KB.

Step 6) .128 cents per 64 KB.

Step 7) .256 cents per 128 KB.

Step 8) .512 cents per 256 KB.

Step 9) 1.024 cents per 512 KB.

Step 10) 2.048 cents per 1024 KB.

Step 11) 4.096 cents per 2048 KB.

Step 12) 8.192 cents per 4096 KB.

Step 13) 16.384 cents per 8192 KB.

Step 14) 32.768 cents per 16384 KB.

Step 15) 65.536 cents per 32768 KB.

The billed usage was for 35,893 KB, and we're very close to that. It should be obvious to anyone by this point that the billed money should've been closer to 65 cents than 65 dollars.

George, I honestly have no idea how you are so patient and handled this so well. Simply listening to this made me want to pull out every single hair on my head, individually haha. This was one of the most painful things I've ever heard in my entire life. How anyone can be so ignorant towards basic math skills is just unbelievable. I don't know if it's because I'm a mathematics major or if it's just because there is absolutely no common sense being used, but that just totally irritated me. I really REALLY hope this gets resolved. Good luck!

You just need to teach Verizon something simple yet amazingly powerful called dimensional analysis. Have them write out the math and carry and cancel the appropriate units.http://www.chem.tamu.edu/class/fyp/mathrev/mr-da.html

The sad thing is that youhave no concept of how dumb you are topublish the audio. I would have just left it as a story...easy to be retratced. Now when you're dragged into court for libel you won't have a leh to stand on. It's illegal to record and publish someone in any media without written or verbal consent in every state.

It's all very well everyone saying what he SHOULD have done, but when you're on the phone at that second, you don't think of everything. He was very patient, and I'm the worst person EVER at maths, and I understand there's a difference.

Here's my attempt at explaining what's going on:I think the Verizon people were forgetting the true meaning of "cents" as a unit of measure and thinking of it as meaning "we're right of the decimal point." So .002 is "cents" because our right-most digit is right of the decimal point. ".002 dollars" might sound like the same amount, it's just that you "forgot" to use "cents." Still incredibly stupid.

"Allright, i just HAD to leave you guys on Verizion a message!I just stumbled upon this website http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-from-cents.html

And it's about this company (Verizion) and it's incapability to understand extremely simple mathematics, mathematics that are deceiving your costumers and even your selfs! After reading the content on the web page (the one i linked to) and listening to the recordings of the telephone calls between you and this guy I must say i am totally and utterly SPEECHLESS!

How can you, as a big business fail at the simple understanding that 1 dollar does not equal 1 cent!?

I think a speak for a majority of people when I'm saying i ain't never going to use your services in the future and i hope the man involved gets compensation for this ridiculous error in your system which you refuse to acknowledge."

Haven't you ever made a support phone call? There's always a disclaimer that says "This call may be recorded for quality control purposes." That means there's an existing implicit consent of both parties to the call to be recorded.

Okay, my method is very similar to another person above (apples), but I think that the problem is that they have a "lock" going on in their brain and they simply can't see their mistake. Trust me, it happens.

Start>

OKay, lets take this one step at a time. Do you have a pen and paper handy? (If they answer yes...)

Good, now, write down what I'm about to tell you and I'll reveal what I'm trying to accomplish after we get done.

First, write down "1 apple" ... then "x" for multiplied by and "2" followed by an "=" sign. Now, how many apples do you have after that? (They should reply with "2 Apples")

Great. Now lets go ahead and plug in our real numbers. Now don't let this confuse you... Just write this right below your previous equation and if you have any questions, just refer to your above equation.

Write "0.002 apples" then "x" for multiplied by and then "35000" (actually, put in the real number) finally "=" sign. So, how many *apples* does your calculator say you have? (If they say 71 dollars, continue... if not, goto next paragraph) Where'd you get *dollars* from? We're talking about *apples*. You have 71 *apples*. Am I right? (Oh yes, of course)

Now, all I want you to do is replace every time you see "apples" with a "cents". (If they say "Oh my gosh! You're right!" then you win... if not, clearly they are TRYING to yank your chain and you should sue them for not only the money they are trying to steal from you, but also your time)

If you really want to try to jar them out of their "dollars to the left of the decimal, cents to the right" pseudo-reality, then point out that the prefix "centi" means "1/100", and that the word "cent" is really just short for "centidollar", or "1/100 of a dollar". Then, teach them that "milli" means "1/1,000" and "micro" means "1/1,000,000". (You might cite meters, centimeters, millimeters, and micrometers to help.) Finally -- and this is the part that destroys the dollars-left-and-cents-right mentality (because there are no more decimal points to be seen!) -- state that you are being charged2 m$/KB (i.e. millidollars/KB),but you were quoted a rate of20 μ$/KB (i.e. microdollars/KB).

Then, listen on the line as their brains meltdown, or explode. ;)

What this country needs is... "Next up, Cookie Monster teaches scientific notation and the SI prefixes!" ("la-la-la ... C is for centi; that's good enough for me ... la-la-la") LOL

(The above is clearly in jest since there is approximately zero chance of them understanding this, considering that they did not understand what you actually did say... I just find it amusing to use unusual units sometimes to make people rethink their normal paradigms. e.g. What's the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight? *grin*)

Best of luck in your endeavours, man! That conversation made me want to stab something. *sigh* (You deserve your money back, and I think you'll get it if you're persistent.)

I think the problem is that they're being confronted with 2 contradictory pieces of information. On one hand, they have the established knowledge that 0.02 = 2 cents and 0.002 is a fifth of a cent. On the other hand they have the pattern that you supply which is '$2 is not 2c' implies '$0.02 is not 0.02c'.

They assume the company must be right and you must be confused.

I'd so like to see this go to court. "I'd like to call Miss Adams, grade school teacher as my first witness"

After reading/listening to this I called verizon customer and posed i similar question about how much the rate in canada actually is. I also got .002 cents per kilobyte (as opposed to .0015 cents in the US if not on an unlimited data plan) as the quoted rate. I endured a similar ordeal trying to explain the difference between .002 dollars per kilobyte when i asked how much I would be charged for 1,000 kb.

After a lengthy ordeal and establishing that $1 was not equal to $0.01. I could still not manage to establish that $.002 was not equal to $.00002.

***********IMPORTANT************

The crux of the matter (as mentioned in previous posts) is that on their screens it comes up as $0.002 which they read as .002 cents. They may quote this number all day long but if it is in writing I believe that that is the rate that they are going to charge (like they did) and that is the rate that they will expect you to pay.

Yes, it is certainly a problem. However, other than something like a corporate memo of how to read numbers with decimal points in them, I don't think this thing will accomplish much.

I asked to speak to a supervisor who quickly assured me that the rate that I was quoted was wrong and that the actual rate is .002 DOLLARS per kilobyte.

From my conversation with the manager I learned that verizon may not believe that Puerto Rico is part of North America. First of all, there is no data plan for the island and normal cellular use under any plan including the North America plan, costs the same there.

There are not the most mathematically astute people working at a call center, but at least they are polite while someone politely berates them as though they are a complete idiot (deservedly so though).

I listened to the phone conversation again and still couldn't believe it. Makes me wonder if you stumbled into what could be the simplest test for math/logic skills ever.

However, I did get a glimpse of bad math skills before from a seemingly intelligent person. My 'lawyer' friend actually believed that buying tickets for every lottery combination, and hence winning, is profitable (she read or heard it from somewhere). Not as simple as ".002 dollars = .002 cents?", though.

Ha, this is pretty crazy... I wonder if they'd understand better if the problem was reversed.

Somehow, I imagine that, if they had mucked it up the other way around (quoted you $0.002/kb and billed you c0.002/kb) they would've be more likely to understand the problem. Seriously is decimals and fractions really that hard? Surely there must be SOMEONE in that company/call-centre that can understand such simple mathematics.

George i really think you have a strong case for a class action... you wouldn't have to pay anything out of pocket... you need to find a contingency law firm... because this is a huge error and could mean a huge victory for you and all verizon customers

This was just ridiculous. I'm a community college math tutor, and I'm fairly certain most of my students would understand this.

It reminds me of a few years ago when my parents were at the end of a car lease, and had, of course, gone over their miles. I'm not sure what the exact charge per extra mile was, but let's call it $0.10/mile. Their quote, though, was .10c/mile. Again, not sure of exact amounts, but after many fruitless hours of argument and frustration, they sent in a check of (let's call it) $1.96. To this day, it has not been cashed. We think it's probably sitting in some idiot's office as an example of what NOT to do.

This bothered me to no end.What happened here was multiple associates telling you:

$.002 == .002 Cents

and that is no different than saying$1,000 == $10

Which is no different than me going to a shop and buying a laptop for 10 bucks, I verify the price from an associate and pay on my shops credit card. Later being billed $1000 for it, I go back to the shop to complain about the billing mistake and they still admit the price of the laptop is $10 bucks adhere to the idiocy that my bill for $1000 is correct. NO DIFFERENCE. Wow, frustrating to no end!

Their posted rates do not matter when a Rep of the company quoted the rate of .002 Cents per KB. When they noted it on your account they were locked into upholding that quote. Talk to a lawyer about Suing them for Fraud.

I worked for Ford Motor Credit Company we handled similar issues all the time.

Personaly If I was a Rep or a Manager at that company once I saw that quoted rate of .002 Cents per KB I would have just credited your account with $72.00 and thanked you for your time.

Yeah, sure, laugh. Your common sense told you it was wrong, but yet... well anyway. You're going to have problems communicating this, mainly because without writing it down, it is confusing. Especially if you half-care, like most representatives.

I'd suggest, if you want a credit, write them a letter. Demonstrate the miscommunication in a way that can't be ambiguous.

I only say this, because I work in a call center--Cingular's, not Verizon's. And you'd expect the most basic things to be easily communicable, but they aren't. A lot of exegesis is required to make a point. And even then, the representative might not be listening, might not be paying attention--maybe something else is wrong in their life, or they just had a shitty call. The rep might also think that she or he knows the answer and wants to just get past your story and tell it to you.

Most written letters go to an environment where the issue is addressed in a more professional manner. Write it down on paper, and ask for a rerate.

Crowder and Academicdave touched on this, but I don't think they emphasized it enough:

They are charging people 100 times more than their rates advertise. Either they're guilty of stealing because they do this on purpose, or they're guilty of criminal negligence by having a 100x rift between their banking code and their rates.

This means that everyone affected by this is victimized and is entitled to at least a 99% refund, if not a couple hundred k apiece for being shafted. (And thats a couple hundred k dollars, not cents)

Sorry to post so far down the line, but I feel I must share my Verizon story.

For two months, my DSL would randomly stop loading webpages for hours at a time. I'd call to complain, and they would say they were working on it. One day I called them because it hadn't worked at all for days. I had called billing to inform them I would not be paying for those days, they transferred me straight to Tech Support without listening.

Two hours on the phone with an unfortunately very patient woman in India. "Are you using the Verizon approved phone cord?" "Is the modem plugged in?" I kept trying to tell her that it wasn't a problem on my end and she kept trying to tell me that if I just upgraded FROM XP 64-bit edition TO XP Home edition, my problems would be solved.

Finally she told me that my account was suspended, and that I would have to call billing. "Billing closed an hour ago." Call billing tomorrow. "Tomorrow is Saturday." Call billing on Monday. "I have no internet and I have a huge project due Monday." Call billing on Monday.

Called billing on Monday morning. They said they would call me with a resolution by noon. I received a message saying that it should only take about two weeks to set up my NEW service. I called and asked why the hell I had to go three weeks without internet, and the woman very condescendingly explained that it take time to set up a new service and that I should be patient.

To be fair, my service was eventually turned back on, but now, four weeks later, I still have no explanation as to why my internet was turned off, and they charged me a $40 setup fee as weel as $80 for a wireless modem I did not get.

One positive thing happened during the 8 hours or so of time I spent on the phone (cellphone minutes, of course, because billing closes at 5, an hour before I get home). I had been transferred twice and was over-patienly explaining the situation yet again to someone who would not help, and the guy in front of me on the bus, hearing the irritaion in my voice, said "You're talking to Verizon, aren't you?"

I sent the following to Verizon via their customer support section on their website:

To whom it may concern:I am a very frequent cell phone user unsatisfied with my present plan from another company. Our current contract is due to be up within the next few months. Verizon was on the top of my list.

However, after hearing about this incident:http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/2006/12/verizon-doesnt-know-dollars-from-cents.html

... I will NEVER purchase any service from Verizon. Any company that doesn't know the difference between $0.002 and 0.002 cents (a one-hundred fold difference) will never get any business from me.

Your reps demonstrated over and over again that they could not understand the simple difference between $100 and $1. They treated Mr. Vaccaro terribly. Despite his enormous patience in explaining over and over again your error, your reps refused to concede to basic mathematics. The fact that several supervisors joined the conversation and still insisted that your mathematical error was correct, despite simple math and a very patient customer, proves to me one thing: you cannot be taken at your word for price quotes over the phone. Neither I, nor any of my subsidiaries, can afford to do business with a company who cannot keep their word.

I am writing this in the likely mistaken hope that you will know that in this society of free information and consumer advocacy, how you treat one very patient, very correct customer, may not stay bottled up in one area of the country, but may lose you a customer somewhere far away.

I am really glad that you posted This on the website,the problem is extremely clear but the reps don't seem to want to take any responsibility for their own mistakes. It almost seems as if their unwilling to listen to reason. I loved the examples that were given, especially the car example, I am stunned that all of these reps still insisted on the same pattern.Hopefully, it's not something that they teach in their call centers. It was especially interesting when just before transferring to the lady manager, there was a silence from the reps side, it's as if he knew it was a mistake and knew it would be better not to comment. (Can't read a person's mind from a recorded conversation)

Side note: What I did learn from this conversation was a way of expressing math.

Why hasn't anyone thought of the obvious answer here-- that the original, verbal-only quote of "cents" was in error, as the person misread $0.002 as .002 "cents" when it should have been .002 "dollars"?

If it had been .002 cents, and not dollars, your roaming data bill would have been $0.71 if I understand your post correctly.

Does anyone else realize that mobile billing software is almost entirely automated-- that they are billing you the same way as everyone else?

Did anyone think that the verbal answer given on the phone by customer service is probably not contractually binding on Verizon, and that their roaming data prices are probably on a website somewhere, not to mention subject to change without notice?

I understand people like to hate phone companies, and certainly Verizon's given me plenty of reasons over the years to hate them-- I also used to be a client, and dropped them for various reasons, and underwent a billing dispute.

It seems to me, though, that someone made an obvious mistake, and you're trying to either hold them to that mistaken rate, or make them admit that they can't do math.

Whether or not they're verbally up to the task of distinguishing between two one thousandths of a dollar and two one thousandths of a cent is probably not the point; the point is, you were almost certainly billed the correct amount, and are trying to have your bill reduced by 100 times based on what a CSR told you over the phone.

The answer here is that the person who first told you "cents" misspoke. It should have been "dollars" Nobody quotes prices in cents, and nobody bills that little for roaming mobile data.

But Verizon decides what the correct rate is, and they keep telling him 0.002 cents/kb. So the guy is going to base his usage on the rate they tell him. Should he waste his time asking for quotes until he gets one that is 100 times higher than the original? Your quote shouldn't a random lottery based on who you are talking to on the phone. If they give you a number they should stick to it.

Does anyone else realize that mobile billing software is almost entirely automated-- that they are billing you the same way as everyone else?

Did anyone think that the verbal answer given on the phone by customer service is probably not contractually binding on Verizon, and that their roaming data prices are probably on a website somewhere, not to mention subject to change without notice?

So freaking what? Verizon's salespersons are responsible for what they say. Few years ago I got a Verizon cell phone plan with "unlimited cell-to-cell calls". I specifically asked the sales rep "Does that mean unlimited calls only to other Verizon phones, or to ANY cell phone?" She answered "Any cell phone" (incorrectly, of course). So for a month I happily called to everyone who I knew had a cell phone without paying attention to my minutes, and then got a $154 over-minutes bill. I called Verizon customer service, and to their credit, they removed $154 from my bill right away. Sure, I was being charged what they charge everyone, and sure, I could have checked their web page for rates, but why should it be my responsibility?? Their saleswoman screwed up. I held the company to her word. Thankfully, they were not being asses about it.

Truly the funniest thing I've heard in a long time. Bravo for doing this, and bravo for your patience during your call! I have had so many bad customer service experiences in the past few years, but none compares to this. I think that any time I get on the phone to any customer service organization, I am going to tape the conversation and Blog it just like this.

While you may be smarter than the average customer service rep in terms of math, your real genius is blogging this.

After listening to all the audio, it doesn't surprise me that the CSRs didn't understand that .002cents/kb does not equal .002dollars/kb. I really don't hold them accountable. That is the way they are trained, it is the information available to them in their manual and probably on their knowledge databases. However, I am quite shocked that the supervisor AND the floor manager couldn't comprehend the concept or understand what the real issue was.

I also had found how the floor manager handled the situation was a bit unprofessional for a CSR manager. She kept cutting you off and referred you to a calculator as if you were an annoyance who didn't understand their billing when you were the one trying to give her an education on how the quoting and billing does not match on the basic concept that .002 cents/kb does not equal .002dollars/kb.

I see that they acknowledged that their manuals and references are going to be updated, but they also might want to take into consideration some higher level training or education for floor managers.

not at the time you had to waste to only come to a dead end (on the call at least), but how "i'm not a mathematician" is a valid excuse for her ineptitude. is anyone that's listened to this a mathematician? probably only like 0.002%

I take advanced calculus in college, and you really have to be care with your units when doing math, unfortunatly this math they are doign is extremely simple math, i bet my 5 year old son could do this math. If these people at verision need a mathmetitcian to point this out to them i know of several. Apparently to work at verision you have to be a high school drop out. You shoulda asked these guys on the phone what 2 + 2 is because it sounds like they would have told you 400. Also if they cant do this simple math makes me scared to ever do buisness with them, because i doubt that these peopel even know how to read. Also can you imagine how many people they have ripped off? they have made literly billions off of this SIMPLE math mistake that they all fail to see. Secondly just because a computer tells you one thing does not make it right. The person that did the programing of thier system screwed up, and that is the key of why they dont see this mistake. They just assume the cents become dollars because the computer does it. And you can not obvisly tell them any different just because they believe the computer. Its like saying you have a 2cm stick and if you attach 5 of them together you get a 10cm stick, only problem here is verision thinks if you take 5 2cm stick and put them together you get a 10meter stick. They are just simply idiots

Apart from the issue of math competence, calculator use and math education in general this affair raises, it is also interesting to note how the U.S. differs from Canada. I much prefer the flat rate plans availabe in the U.S. compared to the petty Canadian system.

"... If you have any problems understanding this, please leverage someone from your accounting department to help you understand it, as I'm sure they know the difference between dollars and cents. ..."

:)))You are a saint, really :)*

I´m glad for you that the problem has been solved. Wish you all bestW.*

Hi, in reading the comments I feel I have to disagree with the definition of "-fold" as given by Damien. I looked up the definition on m-w.com and found it to say the following:

Main Entry: -foldFunction: suffixEtymology: Middle English, from Old English -feald; akin to Old High German -falt -fold, Latin -plex, -plus, Old English fealdan1 : multiplied by (a specified number) : times -- in adjectives (a sixfold increase) and adverbs (repay you tenfold)2 : having (so many) parts (threefold aspect of the problem)

This clearly indicates charging someone tenfold the quoted amount would be (n*10).

@ badabing - Speaking as someone who until quite recently worked in a technical call center environment, all these major companies with customer service or technical call centers have statements playing during hold times which indicate that all calls can be recorded. The customer service rep /technician knows he or she is being recorded because these recordings are usually reviewed as part of that employee's call quality metrics. Legally, if one party is allowed to record a call and all parties are aware recording may be taking place, then any involved party may record the call. Your comment makes no sense.

Wow, I am so shocked by what I just read! I am a CSR for Cingular, and I can't imagine arguing with a customer to the point of talking to 5+ reps and sups.

We have a very simple way of looking at our clients. "The Customer Rules!" is the bottom line...if a customer is that adamant on us billing them wrong, we will do what is needed to fix the problem to their satisfaction and keep them as a continuing happy customer with us, as well as hope they spread the word about our level of service.

It's $71.00. The company is not going to to go broke over a credit of that miniscule amount (for them, not you!!). Because of them fighting you over this, they have now given one easily credited charge and the end of the problem over to x amount of people now knowing about this incident and losing present clients as well as potentual ones. How sad.

I currently have Sprint service and I am very happy with the customer service I've had with them...but if something were to happen and I had to switch companies, any chance I would have had of going to Verizon is gone...I will stick with the ones that value their customers, even when it costs them a $100, to keep them happy and continuing to make those monthly payments.

I feel really stupid admitting this, but I probably wouldn't have noticed the difference if you hadn't pointed it out. When the math is written out I see the point, but when we speak it I can see how they don't understand what you're trying to explain.

I guess the reason they get away with stuff like that is that most people don't pay that close of attention. OR most people would have understand her to mean .002 dollars, even though that's not what she said. Kudos on getting your money back though.

I have previously worked in the billing/tech support industry for almost 5 years. I started out doing dial-up tech support and billing for a little no-name company that had a very small service footprint, making good money, which supported every piece of software and hardware under the sun. We spent a lot of time of the phone with each customer, helping them solve their problems. At the same time I was working with top-notch people, most of which had a college education and loved their jobs. In the long run, we hung up and 10 seconds to 10 minutes later, we would do the same thing on the next call. Time went on, and eventually the big companies, Verizon, Comcast, and Cox were the only places that were hiring for billing and tech support. I moved on, the pay did increase a fairly small amount, but it was what i knew and enjoyed, at that time. It boils down to pure "cost efficiency" now, 1 out of 30 people in your generic tech support/billing cubicle maze has any actual experience, and is making any livable wage. The rest are what the most of the veterans call "monkeys with headsets". Unfortunately the big communication giants, unlike the companies I started with, don't care about hiring people that have hands-on experience. Don't care if these people can answer a simple question about math. Don't care if these people can actually help and, at the same time respect the customer. What do they care about? Taking the next call. If you can get someone off the phone, or pass them off to a "supervisor", which is rarely better, alas the adage, "crap floats to the top" you are a good little robot. If you say, "Hey this customer has been treated badly." or, "This customer has a real complaint that should be referred to someone with an I.Q. over 12.", you are summarily knit-picked into unemployment. I have, as well as many others, customer and employee alike, experienced this many a time. Quantity vs. Quality, aka how many calls can we answer with the least amount of dollars. This is a disease symptomatic of corporate America. They need to wake up. If you answer 100 calls, using 100 people an hour and nothing is solved, how many calls are you going to have the next hour? It's called multiplication.If you can answer 100 calls in 2 hours and every problem is solved, it's called division, or at least equilibrium. Ah, corporate logic.

Wow! I'm aware that it's a little confusing, but seriously, didn't these Verizon people ever do anything with units? That's like taking 60% of $1 vs. 60% of $0.01. I probably just confused them all! Switch to Cingular! I've never had any problems!

Dude, you were very much in control and I commend your imperturbability; I've been known to tape calls and exploit idiots and I can tell you there would have been many more comments issued if that was myself on the line with that level of cue-card-reading stupidity.

The fun part is, you had how many people re-quote you wrong and you have it on tape -- REFUND!

The way to make them understand it is to say "put one cent in your calculator" .01 "now multiply that by .002" now they have .00002, which is the price/kb in dollars, as you were quoted, then multiply by the amount of data used. This way the end result will be in dollars and maybe, just maybe... they will understand (doubtful though)

I have to agree with people regarding this issue: you did a good job remaining calm on the phone despite the idiocy you were confronted with. I'm wondering if you got it resolved because, even though I wouldn't do it, I'd definetly -want- to jump in and help you out. :P

Contracts with telecommunications companies rarely to never state the price of the package involved, let alone a package which will be used in another country.

Instead they state that the price details will be available by checking online OR BY CALLING THEIR CUSTOMER SERVICE. (if you have neither internet nor telephone you really don't need to check what price you're being charged, although technically I think they often also state that you can mail them a request for billing info, although that's not legallly required.)

If the contract states that he can check pricing by calling the company (which, at least in many places, is a legal requirement) then any price he is quoted by the company's representatives on the supplied phone number is binding to the company.

Honey, call me too suspicious, but if they are so incredibly stupid, and there's more than one of them, it just might be that they are not just a bunch of retarded monkeys, it's possible that Verizon is telling them to lie, in order to confuse the customers. Think about it this way: if every person who gets the bill gets a little confused and doesn't notice the cent - dollar change, they make a fortune of people's backs without anyone noticing. And that's not being idiots, that's ingenious..

Maybe you can take it further, you might be on the track of something bigger here. Could be they trust people to think they are just stupid and let it go..

As a former VZW customer service rep, I would have graciously credited the entire amount to your bill. Being that a CSR has no control over the pricing of the plan, I would have advised you the pricing was incorrectly calculated and no fix was possible until management grew some brains. At least you would have understood why some people no longer use their service or work for them! Good luck getting the right person on the phone, might I suggest you find a local employee and befriend them. That would be personal service that the we are bigger, better, dont care about the little guy companies out there.

I had a similar problem, little off topic, but in the same ball park of CSRs not understanding the diffrence.

Years ago when first signing up for a broadband connection, I was quoted X kilobytes per second. Come to find out I would only recieve X kilobits per second. The CSRs read kbps as kBps. The worst part was trying to convince them 8 bits = 1 byte. Then getting them to realize I was getting 1/8th of what I was told I would get.

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Like everyone else said here, if they wrote "$.002/kilobyte" in your account(that comment in your account is probably deleted by now anyway)then you're stuck but since you have that audio recording you're covered. I havent listened to the audio but im not entirely convinced someone could be that stupid. Lots of times when im at my work and i encounter a customer that doesnt know tit from tat when its common knowledge ill just play dumb and frustrate the S out of them so that they leave. I know thats not good customer service but im not IN customer service. Either way, its possible she was just playing dumb with you so that she wouldnt have to admit shes wrong. My suggestion, if the floor manager wont do anything then tell them that you are no longer going to call them about the bill and the next phone call they will be recieving will be from your attorney. Then have a law buddy write a letter on some professional stationery and send it to them and wait for a response. I dont think they're going to go to court over 71 dollars. And if they do you've got proof of them making a mistake. At my job i'd much rather eat a 71 dollar mistake than alienate a customer.

The problem here is NOT who has poor basic math skills, but that Verizon has poor basic customer service skills. It should not matter whether you are right or wrong in YOUR math, Verizon should have taken care of the matter because they value you as their customer. If you were calling in on a monthly basis, then sure, they should take precautions to prevent you from scamming them. I worked for a company where the customer was ALWAYS right, regardless of how wrong we think they are. I find it sad that a CEO ever had to be involved with this matter. Your bill overage should have been taken care of by the first person you spoke with in the first 5 minutes of your conversation.

I am a former Verizon customer. I had a problem, and I gave the "supervisor the ultimatum of taking care of my bill and keeping my business, or not taking care of my bill and I would find service elsewhere. I was told that Verizon was a big company, and my decision would not make or break them. I paid $700 to get out of my contract, and am now a happy 2 year alum of Cingular. I am very happy with my service.

Verizon should learn that without customers, they will not be a company. Great blog. Very entertaining.

Man I hate those retards. But it also annoys me that you are too weak when talking to them, letting them interrupt you and not telling them to answer, when they are just quiet.

They tend to interrupt and go on about something completely wrong.

Tell them to stop and listen to you finnish what you want to say, before they start talking. Don't let them keep talking about something completely wrong. Be firm.

Here's a way that might help a little (Maybe not, since they seem incredibly stupid). You say:

"If the rate was .002 bananas per kilobyte. How many banans would I be charged for my 35000 kilobytes?"

The answer should be "71 bananas".

You then say "Ok, since the rate was not in bananas, but in cents, the price is then 71 cents"

And these people are too dumb to keep track of more than one thing at a time, so don't go off track while in the middle of explaining something, by starting to explain how many thousands it is, or that you understand their reason, or talking about, if the rate was .002 dollars, there would be no problem. Then they lose track completely.

It's a strange coincidence that I'm reading this page because just today I had my first experience dealing with Verizon, as someone who was interested in possibly switching from Cingular. A friend who I hadn't chatted with in several months happened to log on tonight and sent me the link to this page, and I hadn't mentioned anything about my experience with them to him before that. My experience was not in any way related to the one here, but it was markedly and astonishingly unpleasant. The first time I called on my (Cingular nokia) cell phone, and my call was answered by an immediately terse black woman. But the connection was poor so I said I would call back. When I called again on my home line, my second call was answered by yet another terse black woman. They were both unaccommidatingly discourteous from the get-go, and while I'm not going to once again type out the details of what occurred during our conversation, suffice it to say that I subsequently wrote a letter of complaint detailing the unpleasantness to Verizon through its website, which I sent twice through different categories, and I will most certainly not be a patron of their company EVER. With such consistently horrible "customer service", they can kiss my ass and go straight to burn in hell.

But I'm definitely not going to do business with idiots, and I'm going to tell all my friends to do the same. Don't settle for anything less than the rate you were quoted, man. You shouldn't have to pay one penny more for their incompetence.

Companies like Verizon tend to screw around with individual incidents like this, they have to get into their skulls that if they don't lose a bit of money here and there to cover their mistakes and satisfy customers they LOSE customers for good.

I love it. I wish i had time to read everything - I ve come in too late on this. Math is great! Please make sure that all the other customers of Verizon get their rebates -hoe long have they been doing this?

In the UK we have a 'watchdog' program that would go to town on this - customers being over charged by 100x - how many millions of dollars is Verizon cheating you yanks out of!!!???? Write to your MP (congressman/senator/mayor)!!!!

Yeah, it's stupid that Verizon would do that, but did you REALLY think that a company would charge .002 cents/kb?

2 MB = 2 cents? Who are you really kidding? Even if you asked for clarification and someone else said .002 cents, you should have just looked it up online to double-check. Most companies post their rates, and you're obviously internet-enabled.

You should email this to TV, and Radio stations. I know it not global news but sometimes they run stuff thats way less important then this. And to tell you the truth I found this really interesting as do a lot of people from the responses.

A local bar used to put up fliers at ECU advertising '.50 cent beer!' (so my brother went around writing '1/2 cent!' on the fliers.) We don't drink beer, though, so we never went there and tried to get some for that price.

@seaneven if the price is charged too low he doublechecked the price and got this answer again ".002 cents". he confirmed and doublechecked that it was not hes error to understand price incorrectly. i do belive i understand this phonecall recording correctly that he would have payd this 70$ if he would have been told that this is the price for KB. problem is that he was told the wrong thing.... even if you write .002 cents and ment 0.002 dollars u should at phone clarify the things up...

secondly they should have understand hes problem not to go "there is no .002 dollar bill"...try to relolve this issue by appologizing and whatnot offering to lowwer the charge for the internet due to the mistake and inform about this incident whole company to avoid things like that...

I bought a Verizon Tre0 700w with no plan,plugged in a wireless card and they sent me a bill for $27,000 for data usage. I sicked my lawyer daughter on them wrote Congressmen/Senators, PUC etc.had several discussions with their legal dept, and they forced me to by a data plan, to cancel the data charges, which i did and then I cancelled Verizon and signed on with Sprint.

Verizon does not 'resolve'. The 'other' department must correct.. billing cannot .. etc. etc.. and Billing does not know what a 'contract' is . ye old run around - NOT resolve. You must be wrong - got it ?

[quote]This shouldn't all be pointed at Verizon; Verizon is no different from any other company. The fact is that people hired for the front lines (customer service) are ordinary people who can be had for cheap, and who have simple relationships with numbers - the left side is the dollars, and the right side is the cents. It would be helpful and useful to glean some understanding about people from this, rather than demand that everyone make the synaptic leap to unit conversion.

Keep in mind the customer service model works 99% of the time, so companies are probably not going to be too interested in doubling wages just to attract people with sharper math skills.

[/quote]

Ahhhh...the stupid people understand stupid people argument. This has been used against me several times in my life...

Wow. All I can say. Props to you for keeping your cool through all of that. I would have flipped my lid, i got pissed even listening to the incompetence. I probably will never have to deal with them, as I live in Canada, but even if I was presented with an option, you could be sure Verizion would be on the bottom of my list - if on my list at all. I recently had a somewhat similar situation in where a restaurant waiter was slow and inattentive. It took almost one hour for him to bring water, but the worst of it being that he argued and said that it was only 30 minutes. At lest the manager was appreciative and gave us a meal for free :). But still, three reps and none can distinguish the difference of $0.002 and ¢0.002. Absolutely gross. Good luck!!