Bad player or no player? Which is worst?

Ever notice that people complain about being down 200 hive but if your short a player no one cares? Imagine a 8v9 game with 1800 hive avg, the team with 8 effectively has a 0 hive player so their acctual hive score is 1600. Even worst when your down a player because someone good left so it showes 1700 vs 1800 BUT its really closer to 1500vs1800.

Still wishing that the end of round stats had a skill and player count chart.

The following link shows a function in wolframalpha that shows the probability of winning given a hive skill difference. A 200 hive skill difference will put the down team at about a 10% chance of winning, at least if I am reading this correctly.

Not quite what you are looking for, but related.

Edit: The above function is something Moultono did, not me. I only linked his work.

Post edited by Nordic on January 2018

From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.

Other than that, an empty slot has the potential to be filled by a good player. A player slot filled by a bad player does not.
And bad players can make things worse. Ever had rounds where marines would get up three phase gates, then would clump up around the one in the front and keep suciding into a nearby alien occupied room while aliens took the rest of the map? Of course you did.
It takes bad players to keep the momentum of these plays up, and that's a bad thing. I'd rather have one player less overall to make these kinds of situations more obviously hopeless so maybe the rest of the team will catch on.
It's also less frustrating to look at five useless players on your team instead of six.

a low skill player is better than no player. If we play 9v9 with a low skill player the team elo will drop and therefor hive predicts a different outcome. with 8v9 the teamskill of the 8 member team is higher even though the team is not stronger and therefor hive would predict a bigger likelyhood of the 8 team winning which would mean that the players on that team lose more elo.

Bad player because the no player spot can be filled by someone who isn't bad.

In short. You can upgrade a player slot by populating it, potentially getting a good or above average player, while there's still a chance for a bad player to spawn in. However you can't upgrade a bad player instantly

But hey, even bad players can be used for cannon fodder and distractions, whereas an empty slot, well is quite absent for anything really

Why no comparison between AFK and bad player, also how bad is this hypothetical player we're talking about here!?

Even without the possibility of a good player coming in, a bad player can clog your spawn queue, block your shots/movement and expose your location. What do you get from a bad player? A meat shield who probably also doesn't weld?

Ever notice that people complain about being down 200 hive but if your short a player no one cares? Imagine a 8v9 game with 1800 hive avg, the team with 8 effectively has a 0 hive player so their acctual hive score is 1600. Even worst when your down a player because someone good left so it showes 1700 vs 1800 BUT its really closer to 1500vs1800.

People just like to complain... You can literally have a game start like this

Marines - 2400 vs Aliens - 2500...

15 minutes into the game Marines are clearly winning and someone on Alien leaves, so it changes

Marines - 2400 vs Aliens - 2200

7 minutes later the game ends with a Marine victory and people on Alien will point to hive and go "we lost because we were down 200 hivescore the whole game!!!!"

It's even worse with playercount. Nobody ever cares if the team is down 1 player, yet people freak out like there's no hope of victory if their team is down 2 players for any longer than 30 seconds. Nobody seems to be aware (or care) that autobalance keeps the other team from spawning those extra two players... (If anything being down 2 players HELPS because it keeps 2 people locked in spawn, whereas being 1 player down doesn't trigger autobalance at all)

^ This is the kind of mentality that leads to innocent people (mostly rookies) being harassed and/or votekicked just because they're a bad player.

There's a huge difference between a bad player and someone who just stands in the same spot accomplishing nothing all game trolling their team, bad players aren't kicked, they get yelled at with the proper information to not be bad in that particular scenario. Trolls who do nothing on propose because they feel like they "don't have to do what you tell me" and cripple their team (in a heavily TEAMWORK oriented game) get kicked.

Calling someone "bad" is not harassment, sorry if you feel like it is. If your sensitive enough to perceive smack/trash talk as harassment internet gaming is not for you.

Even after they leave rookie status, the so called bad players greatly outnumber the so called good players.

A bad player is also a highly subjective term. I still consider myself a bad player even though I am technically far above average.

From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.

If its 8 marines vs 9 aliens. Then one alien wont spawn. That alien could be their best player or worst. Also the new player filling the slot could be better or worse. Players leaving multiplayer games is a tale as old as time.

If its 8 marines vs 9 aliens. Then one alien wont spawn. That alien could be their best player or worst. Also the new player filling the slot could be better or worse. Players leaving multiplayer games is a tale as old as time.

I think auto balance only kicks in if the difference is two players or more, but I'm not sure. Used to be that way, anyway.

If its 8 marines vs 9 aliens. Then one alien wont spawn. That alien could be their best player or worst. Also the new player filling the slot could be better or worse. Players leaving multiplayer games is a tale as old as time.

I think auto balance only kicks in if the difference is two players or more, but I'm not sure. Used to be that way, anyway.

There are currently 91 players above 4000. There are 5 players above 5000, although Novorei doesn't count because he abused the Hive 1 system to get there.

Post edited by Nordic on January 2018

From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.

Ah ok. server admins should change it to one. That way it always stay even with one person queuing in spawn till one of their teammates dies or another player joins.

People join and leave any multiplayer game. Which has a negative impact on the said game. And while some games “play now” button would push similar skill players into that empty player slot, NS2 doesn't have enough players clicking on the play now button simultaneously to find an equal level player to put into the slot. So it just puts anyone in that hits the button. Otherwise you would be waiting forever to fill the void with an equal skill player from the person who left.

Raging at someone who failed to kill an injured Fade by telling them to uninstall and kill themselves, that is harassment.
Using racial slurs to insult someone is harassment, trying to get them kicked by lying and saying they're doing something they aren't, is harassment.

Just the other day I saw a rookie get kicked and he wasn't doing anything wrong. (from what I saw he spent most of his time attacking their back res towers) Some elitist jerk just got mad we were losing and decided to blame the rookie. They started by yelling at/insulting them, then they started throwing up vote kicks and lying by saying "afk"... Then when I pointed out that they were not afk, the jerk turned around and lied again by saying "he's been sitting in a corner doing nothing all game" Before I could type out "no he isn't, he's been attacking their res" the vote passed and the rookie was gone.

It's sad when a player with less than 100 hours gets kicked for "trolling" when they didn't do anything even remotely wrong. Even on a "competitive" server like TGNS his worst possible offense would've been not being able to hear the jerk yelling at him (he probably muted them because they were yelling at people)

Really i just got annoyed when people were complaining about skill balance when The team with the higher skill was short a player... if they had averaged in a imaginary 500 skill player it would have been even.

But tis true people wana complain....

I just really want those end of round stats so i can be like “nope, the skill was even until 12 minutes, then you were actually up 200 hive, you wernt down hive/players until 20min, which was after our exis crushed your hive!!!” Not that any one would listen, *sigh*

I just really want those end of round stats so i can be like “nope, the skill was even until 12 minutes, then you were actually up 200 hive, you wernt down hive/players until 20min, which was after our exis crushed your hive!!!” Not that any one would listen, *sigh*

From my perspective UWE has been trying to both with what little resources they have given to the game. They don't have an AAA budget, let alone an indie game budget. They have the budget of a game that has been out 6 years. I want to say, don't half ass two things, whole ass one thing. I just don't think they have the resources to do it. Unlike many of the people on the forums, I guess I am just happy they are at least trying even though I may not like what they end up doing.

Just the other day I saw a rookie get kicked and he wasn't doing anything wrong. (from what I saw he spent most of his time attacking their back res towers) Some elitist jerk just got mad we were losing and decided to blame the rookie. They started by yelling at/insulting them, then they started throwing up vote kicks and lying by saying "afk"... Then when I pointed out that they were not afk, the jerk turned around and lied again by saying "he's been sitting in a corner doing nothing all game" Before I could type out "no he isn't, he's been attacking their res" the vote passed and the rookie was gone.

It's sad when a player with less than 100 hours gets kicked for "trolling" when they didn't do anything even remotely wrong.

Since I've seen your incredibly low "mapawareness" several times on pubs, your view might very likely wrong as well... just because you looked at the map and noticed he did something useful, that could still mean he is 90% of the round hiding in a dark place...
You usually see those kinds of players from time to time who think their hiding is useful... and Yes I've seen them kicked by "normal" players...
since I wasn't there I don't know, but in my point of view you lost your credibility for those statements long time ago.

If its 8 marines vs 9 aliens. Then one alien wont spawn. That alien could be their best player or worst. Also the new player filling the slot could be better or worse. Players leaving multiplayer games is a tale as old as time.

I think auto balance only kicks in if the difference is two players or more, but I'm not sure. Used to be that way, anyway.

your view might very likely wrong as well... just because you looked at the map and noticed he did something useful, that could still mean he is 90% of the round hiding in a dark place...

You are making assumptions here. I'd point out how I saw him half a dozen times biting back res alongside myself, or mention the score he attained without getting any kills, but I don't see the point since...

Of course I have... I have an extremely hard time explaining myself, plus I've lost my temper and rage posted from time to time...

Doesn't mean I'm wrong though.

The # of people who abuse the votekick system and lie to kick "bad" players is much much higher than anyone around here will admit.

Some food for thought, if you happened to be one of the 10 people on the other team who voted yes, you would've left that game thinking that a troublemaking troll just got rightfully kicked, when in fact it was a bad player being harassed right under your nose without you ever realizing it.