Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) interjected that background checks would mean "criminals won't go to purchase the guns, because there will be a background check! We'll stop them from the original purchase." Addressing LaPierre, Durbin said, "You missed that point completely!"

As the audience began to cheer, LaPierre interrupted Durbin, "Senator, I think you missed the point!" As tensions grew higher, committee Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) was forced to bang his gavel and call for order.

Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA

Keene has been on TV fairly often - that doesn't work to loosen up your wallet a bit? One person is on your "don't like list" and that's why you don't join NRA - really? LaPierre hasn't been in his NRA position forever. Were you ever in NRA?

I will agree, NRA ought to use someone other than LaPierre when addressing middle of the road types. It seems to me he's best for preaching to the choir.

I've been and am in all sorts of organizations. I don't agree with everything they stand for or how they're run, it's always a balancing act. With ACLU I'm lucky to hit "50 - 50".

To borrow a phrase from work you're making very good the enemy of perfect.

i think the facts are speaking for themselves. People see him as "The Gun Owner" and they are turned off. 4 million NRA members but 80 million gun owners. the vote is in and the NRA is losing badly. How does the NRA get some of those 76 million gun owners? Change everything. Public image, speakers, everything. First to go should be LaPierre but it should not stop there. There needs to be a complete houscleaning and while the message should not change the messenger has to along with the tactics. The NRA is doing the same things and expecting different results. The last time i heard that was definition of insanity when someone keeps doing the same thing expecting different results. And the NRA wonders why gun owners are not joining. Bad image, bad tactics, and bad results even among those the NRA expects to recruit. calguns is more impressive and maybe it needs chapters in every state.

I think the NRA needs multiple representatives speaking for it, including an articulate woman. The country has changed demographically and I hear a lot of " old white guys" bashing. Like the republican party, the NRA can't be seen as being out if touch with the "new" America. People need to feel welcome and get drawn into the positive aspects of firearm ownership. (disclaimer: female poster here)

You're absolutey right. There are alot of good people out there who'll cut a positive, sympathetic figure to the general public. NRA does a fine job of "rallying the troops". I think that's important, getting the lazy, complacent gun owners off their fannies. But selling appeal to the rest of the country is important. Women, older people, single mom or dad. A little Advert 101 wouldn't hurt.

That's all? How about a black gay transgender with eloquence ?That should sell to the people who want to sensationalize the cause of 2A. Perhaps we can attract more people from the other side?? Lets play chess not checkers people...shaking my head

i think the facts are speaking for themselves. People see him as "The Gun Owner" and they are turned off. 4 million NRA members but 80 million gun owners. the vote is in and the NRA is losing badly. How does the NRA get some of those 76 million gun owners? Change everything. Public image, speakers, everything. First to go should be LaPierre but it should not stop there. There needs to be a complete houscleaning and while the message should not change the messenger has to along with the tactics. The NRA is doing the same things and expecting different results. The last time i heard that was definition of insanity when someone keeps doing the same thing expecting different results. And the NRA wonders why gun owners are not joining. Bad image, bad tactics, and bad results even among those the NRA expects to recruit. calguns is more impressive and maybe it needs chapters in every state.

Agreed. The NRA needs to send someone over to CGF with a pencil and notebook.

Hes awful and the main reason I wont join the NRA. Keene is 10 times better and should be the one out front for the NRA

Ugh...really?

So what ARE you doing to further RKBA other than posting on CalGuns.net?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wherryj
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

I'm a NRA life member, I'm sure WLP is quite good at organizational management, lobbying, etc. IMHO, its not that he is a bad public speaker, I think he's a better public speaker than he is a debator. NRA needs to get away from the visual of old/white/male. We need a younger more dynamic presence in the lead speaker and voice of the organization (this coming from me who is 48/white/male). I'd like to see a woman in charge - Gayle Trotter did a good job prior to WLP at this hearing. This is a PR campaign when doing dog+pony shows like today's hearing. To not cater to that reality, is to miss opportunities.

It is frustrating to see WLP get tripped up by leaky Leahy on the background check question.... sigh.

I agree with that, and more perhaps what LaPierre's role really is and where he is the most effective.

However we have to at least see that the NRA, in the court of public relations and image handling in the mainstream, can use more charisma and a better strategy. It certainly is that LaPierre should not be the only source in front of a camera doing that. It needs to be more saavy, and in a way that represents also a voice to a younger generation as well.

IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwiese

Most of you folks are forgetting the issue.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."

The moment the idea is admitted into society, that property is not as sacred as the laws of God, and that there is not a force of law and public justice to protect it, anarchy and tyranny commence.' and that `Property is surely a right of mankind as real as liberty.'- John Adamshttp://www.usdebtclock.org/

MSNBC is claiming WLP is a lobbyist representing gun manufacturers and not rank and file NRA members. Seems the perfect in for a very likable advocate speaking for member interests. Must be somebody that would come off well in the organization.

Just to be clear.. my "love" was sarcasm. I can't agree with your point about kids being desensitized to killing solely based on video games and movies... but Hollywood does need to STFU a lot of times. If anything, lack of parenting and just shoving brain pills into a kid's mouth hoping for magic fixes really mess things up more. Just look up all the spree shooters and you'll notice majority of them were on psychiatric meds.

I know. Clever, aren't I?

I think since they (Hollywood) seem to take such an active role in battling the 2A, they should have to answer up for their own sins. Which are much more significant contributors to the problem than you or I. Yet they use their influence that is made possible by us, and our money, against us. And for that I say they should eat a duck.

Are pills causing a problem? Maybe so, its hard to say since we don't know what our kids would be like if they weren't programmed to kill from a young age. But I don't see the pharmaceuticals on TV screaming for our guns to be taken from us, that is done by people like Scarlett Johanson, Silvester Stalone, etc etc.

This "I won't join because of _____ reason" only further divides us. Sad how people like you just refuse to see the big picture. Don't worry, we will save freeloaders rights too.

What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.

What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.

Haven't been around that long eh? They helped us defeat AB962, the online ammo ban among many other things. With the statement you made above get ready to eat crow.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Wherryj
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

Haven't been around that long eh? They helped us defeat AB962, the online ammo ban among many other things. With the statement you made above get ready to eat crow.

Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.

Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.

How about Californians stop electing bozos to populate the state legislature and the governor's mansion? Then we might actually start having some common sense in the politics in this state.

Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.

That is done through the courts, again, haven't been around much? There are plenty of threads that explain what the NRA has done specifically in CA.

__________________

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wherryj
I am a physician. I am held to being "the expert" in medicine. I can't fall back on feigned ignorance and the statement that the patient should have known better than I. When an officer "can't be expected to know the entire penal code", but a citizen is held to "ignorance is no excuse", this is equivalent to ME being able to sue my patient for my own malpractice-after all, the patient should have known better, right?

What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.

There is only so much NRA can do, when the people of California keep electing the same bunch clowns in the Legislature.

There is only so much NRA can do, when the people of California keep electing the same bunch clowns in the Legislature.

And with the prolifers and Prop 8 people having killed the CA GOP.

__________________

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

CGF Board Member / NRA Benefactor Life Member / CRPA life memberNo postings of mine here, unless otherwise specifically noted, areto be construed as formal or informal positions of the Calguns.Netownership, The Calguns Foundation, Inc. ("CGF"), the NRA, or my employer. No posts of mine on Calguns are to be construed as legal advice, which can only be given by a lawyer.

That is done through the courts, again, haven't been around much? There are plenty of threads that explain what the NRA has done specifically in CA.

I think 211275 highlights why we really need to educate people on how we fight for gun rights in CA. What works in the rest of the US doesn't exactly translate to CA.

Just watching both Committee hearings (US Senate vs CA Legislature) on gun control highlights a lot of the differences. Federally we at least have some type of balance. At state level, the balance is so far in their favor that we are bending over and just hoping they use vaseline.

In CA, the NRA and other groups seem to work in mysterious ways but don't doubt they are working.

__________________
"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff

"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X

Which makes me wonder if there is any chance at all at propping up Libertarian candidates in CA?

__________________
"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff

"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X

Wow, big deal. How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.

Name the other states that have any number of day wait. Now I don't know about if that new BS Cuomo just signed but not even NY has a waiting period.

But it seems to me Ron Paul support is higher in the SF Bay than in most other places, so a pro-choice pro-LGBT "libertarian-ish" Republican might have a shot.

It's almost like asking for a unicorn.

Ironically, I'm not even a Republican. I just like a balance of powers. Preferably I'd like more independents but those unicorns became extinct in the early 20th century.

__________________
"When you get the (men) to the range, you just get the men. But when you bring the (women) to the range, you get the (whole family). And that's what's going to save our 2nd Amendment."--Dianna Liedorff

"Since self-preservation is the 1st law of nature, we assert the...right to self-defense. The Constitution...clearly affirms the right of every American...to bear arms. And as Americans, we will not give up a single right guaranteed under the Constitution." --Malcolm X

What has the NRA done for us here in CA? Not a damn thing as far as I can tell. We have to go thru registrations, 10 day waits, use bullet buttons, limited to 10 rounds, can only buy one handgun every month, cant open carry, getting a CCW is impossible...and we are about to get slapped with even MORE gun laws. Where is the NRA fighting for our rights in CA? Please tell me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 211275

How about them pushing CA to let us have high cap mags like most every other state gets to, eliminate the bullet button, a couple day wait like just about every other state and end the one handgun every 30 day rule plus stop any new gun laws from passing here? Then I might be impressed enough to join.

Wayne's not there to impress Joe Blow. Other outreach stuff is for that.

Wayne is there to exert pressure and not necessarily by his public words.

It doesn't matter what he says if House (and even perhaps Seneate) won't fold on gun votes.

It's always important to remember which game is playing.

The real message is "I showed up and didn't delegate this to usual lobbying channels. We're serious, mofos. Remember '94."

Actually no, we're not...

I am sure that WLP is an excellent lobbiest and a fairly good strategist. That in no way guarantees he'll be a good front man or CEO.

That's like making the best engineer or accountant the department manager. It might work but more often than not it does not work. The skills they have as great engineers and accountants do not necessarily translate into great leadership and managerial skills.