I'm definitely going to have to read the actual study, because this sounds like a great exercise to apply to your own kids.

At worst, it doesn't do anything and just takes maybe an hour or so a week from your kid's time (while at the same time helping them work on their writing skills). At best, it can motivate them for better academic performance in the future.

So wait, if you apply yourself and work hard and set expectations for yourself you'll go far in life? WHO KNEW???

No. People who are self-affirmed apply themselves better and work harder. Not all kids get that, growing up, especially not minority kids (often new immigrants or first generation) or low-income kids. They don't get the kind of affirmation they need to succeed later on.

I'm definitely going to have to read the actual study, because this sounds like a great exercise to apply to your own kids.

At worst, it doesn't do anything and just takes maybe an hour or so a week from your kid's time (while at the same time helping them work on their writing skills). At best, it can motivate them for better academic performance in the future.

I'll take that bargain.

If you are a parent it's pretty easy. My wife and I always talked to our daughters as if college were a foregone conclusion. We talked about college as if it was a given. School doesn't end at high school, it ends when you graduate college. It was always assumed in any school conversation. The idea that college was an optional thing never even came up.

Worked too, both have graduated from college (one with a masters degree). Start now, you can't do it too early.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I'm definitely going to have to read the actual study, because this sounds like a great exercise to apply to your own kids.

At worst, it doesn't do anything and just takes maybe an hour or so a week from your kid's time (while at the same time helping them work on their writing skills). At best, it can motivate them for better academic performance in the future.

I'll take that bargain.

If you are a parent it's pretty easy. My wife and I always talked to our daughters as if college were a foregone conclusion. We talked about college as if it was a given. School doesn't end at high school, it ends when you graduate college. It was always assumed in any school conversation. The idea that college was an optional thing never even came up.

Worked too, both have graduated from college (one with a masters degree). Start now, you can't do it too early.

As a side note, make sure your kids are aware there are other routes as well, and that there is nothing wrong with them if that is what they want to pursue. I've meet too many people who think going to a technical college or getting a trade skill is the 'loser' route for people that can't go to a 4 year college, when contractors, plumbers, and electricians are just as important jobs.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

So wait, if you apply yourself and work hard and set expectations for yourself you'll go far in life? WHO KNEW???

No. People who are self-affirmed apply themselves better and work harder. Not all kids get that, growing up, especially not minority kids (often new immigrants or first generation) or low-income kids. They don't get the kind of affirmation they need to succeed later on.

If you live in a culture or a family where you are told repeatedly that only the kids with certain financial or social advantages will succeed and all others will fail, you tend to follow that path. It's hard to break the limits you put on yourself. This appears to be one method to at least put a crack in those self imposed limits.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

Citation please. Public schools in many areas in the US are quite bad and school segregation is quite high, especially in places that people might not expect like New York.

So wait, if you apply yourself and work hard and set expectations for yourself you'll go far in life? WHO KNEW???

No. People who are self-affirmed apply themselves better and work harder. Not all kids get that, growing up, especially not minority kids (often new immigrants or first generation) or low-income kids. They don't get the kind of affirmation they need to succeed later on.

If you live in a culture or a family where you are told repeatedly that only the kids with certain financial or social advantages will succeed and all others will fail, you tend to follow that path. It's hard to break the limits you put on yourself. This appears to be one method to at least put a crack in those self imposed limits.

For the most part, in my experience, it's not the culture or the family that's telling the kids that, it's society at large.

I'm definitely going to have to read the actual study, because this sounds like a great exercise to apply to your own kids.

At worst, it doesn't do anything and just takes maybe an hour or so a week from your kid's time (while at the same time helping them work on their writing skills). At best, it can motivate them for better academic performance in the future.

I'll take that bargain.

If you are a parent it's pretty easy. My wife and I always talked to our daughters as if college were a foregone conclusion. We talked about college as if it was a given. School doesn't end at high school, it ends when you graduate college. It was always assumed in any school conversation. The idea that college was an optional thing never even came up.

Worked too, both have graduated from college (one with a masters degree). Start now, you can't do it too early.

So wait, if you apply yourself and work hard and set expectations for yourself you'll go far in life? WHO KNEW???

Yeah, this idea is much easier said from a high-horse than done with people who come from generational poverty. When you grow up impoverished, and your family has always been impoverished, and your entire neighborhood is impoverished, and media reaffirms your poverty, worthlessness, and otherness, it becomes a part of your identity.

But you're right, who knew not being poor was as easy as just not being poor!

I really recommend this podcast in particular (hopefully it's the right one that I'm thinking of)

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

Education does not begin and end with college.

The ways schools are funded is the opposite of what it should be. Schools in poor or troubled areas need more funding not less. As you mention opportunities to attend college don't mean much if you don't have a good educational foundation that starts at a much younger age. Schools should probably also draw their funding much a larger population, e.g. from the state level rather then the local level.

I'm definitely going to have to read the actual study, because this sounds like a great exercise to apply to your own kids.

At worst, it doesn't do anything and just takes maybe an hour or so a week from your kid's time (while at the same time helping them work on their writing skills). At best, it can motivate them for better academic performance in the future.

I'll take that bargain.

If you are a parent it's pretty easy. My wife and I always talked to our daughters as if college were a foregone conclusion. We talked about college as if it was a given. School doesn't end at high school, it ends when you graduate college. It was always assumed in any school conversation. The idea that college was an optional thing never even came up.

Worked too, both have graduated from college (one with a masters degree). Start now, you can't do it too early.

Other way 'round: If you're a kid with two parents, middle-class, at least one white one, it's easy.

I find this result fascinating. It's especially fascinating because of what it says about life circumstances relative to going to college.

I'm not saying there aren't all kinds of prejudices and handicaps that minority students have to overcome. There absolutely are. But it seems like this study hints that the underlying problem is the mentality induced by the circumstances, not the circumstances themselves.

Which fits well with all the anecdotes of people managing to elevate themselves above poor starting circumstances (their mentality for whatever reason was not fully defined by their circumstances) and ALSO with the clear data showing that poor economic and social circumstances hamper achievement.

I find this result fascinating. It's especially fascinating because of what it says about life circumstances relative to going to college.

I'm not saying there aren't all kinds of prejudices and handicaps that minority students have to overcome. There absolutely are. But it seems like this study hints that the underlying problem is the mentality induced by the circumstances, not the circumstances themselves.

Which fits well with all the anecdotes of people managing to elevate themselves above poor starting circumstances (their mentality for whatever reason was not fully defined by their circumstances) and ALSO with the clear data showing that poor economic and social circumstances hamper achievement.

Obviously this is anecdata, but often with those stories, you hear that there was one person (parent, grandparent, teacher, coach, etc) who "believed in me" or "had high expectations and I didn't want to let them down". Basically someone doing this affirming for them.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

Education does not begin and end with college.

The ways schools are funded is the opposite of what it should be. Schools in poor or troubled areas need more funding not less. As you mention opportunities to attend college don't mean much if you don't have a good educational foundation that starts at a much younger age. Schools should probably also draw their funding much a larger population, e.g. from the state level rather then the local level.

It's not as simple as more funding. Throwing money at this will not necessarily resolve the problem. There are many failing schools that receive more dollars per student than successful schools. But with more money being redirected to repairs, extra security, extra social programs and the like, less gets spent on education. In addition, the PTA/PTO groups tend to be more active in the better schools.

And, for more than 90 percent of them who received the self-affirmation assignments, this meant college. That's higher than the rate seen in their white peers (though the difference wasn't statistically significant)

Quote:

There are a lot of systemic reasons for this gap—persistent poverty, poor access to good preparatory schools, discrimination, and more.

And, for more than 90 percent of them who received the self-affirmation assignments, this meant college. That's higher than the rate seen in their white peers (though the difference wasn't statistically significant)

Quote:

There are a lot of systemic reasons for this gap—persistent poverty, poor access to good preparatory schools, discrimination, and more.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

Education does not begin and end with college.

The ways schools are funded is the opposite of what it should be. Schools in poor or troubled areas need more funding not less. As you mention opportunities to attend college don't mean much if you don't have a good educational foundation that starts at a much younger age. Schools should probably also draw their funding much a larger population, e.g. from the state level rather then the local level.

It's not as simple as more funding. Throwing money at this will not necessarily resolve the problem. There are many failing schools that receive more dollars per student than successful schools. But with more money being redirected to repairs, extra security, extra social programs and the like, less gets spent on education. In addition, the PTA/PTO groups tend to be more active in the better schools.

Obviously it's not the only necessary change but part of what I mean when I said they need more funding is specifically to spend on education. If extra money needs to be spent on repairs/security then that's even more funding that's required. The goal should be that all Public schools across the state provide similar qualities of education.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

It's cool when you base your entire posts on objectively false statements, because it makes things a lot easier for me.

Education equity within OECD countries has been studied pretty extensively, and they release the results in their annual PISA reports. Canada outdoes the US both in terms of overall performance and in terms of educational equity, as do a pretty broad number of other OECD countries. It's not even hard to find that information - if the OECD's reports are too long for you then you could just look up the topic on Wikipedia, scroll down to their pretty map, and have a clear visual indication of just how poorly the US does here.

I mean... did you even consider looking for actual statistics before pulling stuff out of your ass?

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

It's cool when you base your entire posts on objectively false statements, because it makes things a lot easier for me.

Education equity within OECD countries has been studied pretty extensively, and they release the results in their annual PISA reports. Canada outdoes the US both in terms of overall performance and in terms of educational equity, as do a pretty broad number of other OECD countries. It's not even hard to find that information - if the OECD's reports are too long for you then you could just look up the topic on Wikipedia, scroll down to their pretty map, and have a clear visual indication of just how poorly the US does here.

I mean... did you even consider looking for actual statistics before pulling stuff out of your ass?

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

Education does not begin and end with college.

The ways schools are funded is the opposite of what it should be. Schools in poor or troubled areas need more funding not less. As you mention opportunities to attend college don't mean much if you don't have a good educational foundation that starts at a much younger age. Schools should probably also draw their funding much a larger population, e.g. from the state level rather then the local level.

It's not as simple as more funding. Throwing money at this will not necessarily resolve the problem. There are many failing schools that receive more dollars per student than successful schools. But with more money being redirected to repairs, extra security, extra social programs and the like, less gets spent on education. In addition, the PTA/PTO groups tend to be more active in the better schools.

The problem also gets exacerbated by the unwillingness of parents to shortchange their own children to help someone else's. I, myself, am totally unwilling to send the money I am paying into my local school system into an inner-city school so some kid I'll never see has a marginally better chance of not ending up poor in 30 years. I'd much rather that money went to *my* kid's school where I can watch it enrich my own child's education immediately.

Tribalism writ small. There is no world in which a person's own children are less important than the undefined "other." Nor should they be.

Minorities have the greatest access to education here than any other country, including Canada. While college education is much cheaper elsewhere, the poor minorities in US still can get free education, they simply do not pursue it. It has to be socialized to them and they don't take advantage of it.

It's not a poverty or racism issue when many states are giving free local college education and student loan makes college education quite affordable for the poor.

Middle class is different story, families that make a certain amount can't get tuition assistance and have to pay for their education which minorities get free tuition aren't taking advantage of it.

I worked and my parents also contributed to my college education while I see minorities in college dropping out because they lack motivation.

I don't know where you live, but your feelings don't jive with my experience (living as a new immigrant in minority-heavy school districts and less diverse, wealthier districts).

For the most part, minority-heavy schools tend to be underfunded and under-resourced. The teacher to student ratios are high (compared to wealthier districts). Teachers, especially young teachers, experience high attrition and burn-out rates. The ones that don't burn out sometimes go elsewhere to wealthier districts.

Poorer, minority-heavy students don't get the kind of individualize attention or self-affirmation. And just having funding for cheap college (it's not that cheap, even with government help, I want to warn you) isn't enough, because the damage to learning habits have already occurred by the time a student is going to college. A young lifetime in an under-funded and under-resourced school district is probably also going to leave the young student unable to be accepted to many colleges, or not be competitive enough once they get in.

Education does not begin and end with college.

The ways schools are funded is the opposite of what it should be. Schools in poor or troubled areas need more funding not less. As you mention opportunities to attend college don't mean much if you don't have a good educational foundation that starts at a much younger age. Schools should probably also draw their funding much a larger population, e.g. from the state level rather then the local level.

It's not as simple as more funding. Throwing money at this will not necessarily resolve the problem. There are many failing schools that receive more dollars per student than successful schools. But with more money being redirected to repairs, extra security, extra social programs and the like, less gets spent on education. In addition, the PTA/PTO groups tend to be more active in the better schools.

The problem also gets exacerbated by the unwillingness of parents to shortchange their own children to help someone else's. I, myself, am totally unwilling to send the money I am paying into my local school system into an inner-city school so some kid I'll never see has a marginally better chance of not ending up poor in 30 years. I'd much rather that money went to *my* kid's school where I can watch it enrich my own child's education immediately.

Tribalism writ small. There is no world in which a person's own children are less important than the undefined "other." Nor should they be.

This is why the situation is unlikely to change in the US, however, it works in a number of other countries like Canada. The problem with this viewpoint is that you assume helping the 'other' child does nothing for your own family and that's where you're wrong. Providing solid social services; Education, Health Care, etc for everyone will help the economy in general and that's where you and your children will see a benefit. The other point to make is that often the immediate negative to your child will be much smaller than the positive to the 'other' child and can be made up with things like fund raising (which schools in wealthy areas do anyway).