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Topic: Sicko (Read 5053 times)

So I just saw Michael Moore's new documentary today, and I'd like to see what everyone who has seen it thinks of it. This is not the place to debate political solutions to the health care problem, nor is it a place to rant about Michael Moore or his politics. This is in Free-for-All. I will be posting a related thread in Politics for those who care to discuss those issues. Here, I want to know the following:

1) Technical aspects of the film--what did you think was well done or poorly done? Were the questions fair? Were the interviewees representative? Were the stunts really cool, or totally lame?2) Issues the film brings up--are they representative of the various health care systems he describes, or is Moore way off base when he states what is wrong with American health care and right with the foreign health care systems?3) What has been your experience with health care, whether in America or abroad?

Again, please limit your responses to non-political answers. Political responses should be placed in the related thread in Politics. Thank you.

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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Haven't seen the movie, don't know if I will (maybe on DVD), but I can answer #3.

Having lived in Canada for 25 years and in the USA for 10 years, I'd say I've experienced both quite well. There are aspects of both I like better than the other and IMHO if you take away corporate greed (insurance companies) and personal greed (doctors) the USA would have NO problems. Unfortunately, does anyone see that happening?

I'll write more when you open it up in the politics section as my response will be better suited to that section.

I like your quote. I bet Bono would be for universal health care. I wonder if we can turn this thread into a U2 thread???

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

I saw this film yesterday, with my wife and my daughter and my daughter's beau (we are on vacation right now till next Monday, yeah, baby, yeah! )

I liked the film, even though there are some propagandistic flaws (for example, I don't believe that he really shows the viewer a "typical" French family and a "typical" treatment of strangers in a Cuban hospital). The issues that Moore brings up are most definitely very serious, and the documentary is, overall, very good, deep, thought-provoking, and, even though ironic and often sarcastic, nonetheless very kind and humane.

As for my experience of health care in the USA vs. abroad: I grew up in the former USSR, and I graduated from a medical school over there; so, I do have a first-hand experience on both "ends" in a system of completely socialized, government-run health care. It certainly had its drawbacks - dentistry, in particular, was, overall, very poor because there were constant shortages of materials for filling, little or no anaesthesia, etc. Yet, there were advantages, compared with the system in the US. We had the so-called "dispanserizations" - physical checkups for all people, including kids, at least once a year, which did not cost a thing. It did help to reveal illnesses at their early stage. When I was in third or forth grade, a doctor diagnozed recurrent tonsillitis in me, and sent me to a series of "sanations" (sprinkling of my tonsils with something like furazolidone, etc.). Of course I hated it, but there was no escape . And my tonsillitis was really cured, it never became chronic and I never had any complications like rheumatic fever or kidney disease, which are so common - and so crippling! - in adults with chronic tonsillitis. What would happen if I were born in the US? Of course, if my parents had money, my tonsillitis would have been treated even better and cured; but if I were born to a family that had a small income? Shudders.

Also, we had house calls. I cannot imagine for a second having a sick child at home and a pediatrician not visiting this child every second or third day (in difficult cases, even daily).

Generally, I concur with the European idea of "solidarity" of people in matters of health care. I do not, in this regard, share the American philosophy of the "why should I pay for HIM or HIS kids?" kind. I believe socialized, taxpayers-supported health care should exist, just like socialized, taxpayers'-supported army or police of education exist. Private doctors can remain, it's fine - those people who can afford them, will continue to use their service. But people with modest income should be helped by socialized medicine without any interference of for-profit organizations like HMOs.

I agree with you that the cases he showed abroad were definitely rosier than could reasonably be expected, but he did make a good point that socialization is not what we've been told it is. It's not evil, it's not repressive, and it's not substandard. Thank you for the story.

By the way, what are house calls?

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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

agree with you that the cases he showed abroad were definitely rosier than could reasonably be expected, but he did make a good point that socialization is not what we've been told it is. It's not evil, it's not repressive, and it's not substandard. Thank you for the story.

I concur with your assessment as well Y.

As a side note, I have been impressed with your latest posts. You have much wisdom in you padawan. You sound as if you have been paying close attention to the Nacho.

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

I consider Nacho to be my adopted brother. He is a rock in my life. We have been friends for nearly 15 years, and have made our journey to the ancient faith together. (and what a journey it has been!)

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

BTW, I like your new icon, and I saw the thread that said don't feed the troll. What exactly is a troll anyway?

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

I think they are all valid points, but I guess it comes down to how you view healthcare. I view it as something which should exist as a fundamental right, just as a matter for our being alive.

Most Americans would probably disagree with that notion.

If you view it as I do, then a two-tier system becomes ridiculous. Basically it becomes like car shopping... the rich guy can afford the better, bigger and safer car as a result of his wealth. Well that might be fine for cars, but why should a rich guy have access to a better oncologist than Joe blue collar who worked in an assembly plant making armor for our troops, but couldn't afford the private docs? Is his life worth less, or less worthy of ACCESS to the best we have to offer?

SouthSerb99: A two tier system will exist regardless of the health care system of a country. In Canada, for instance, wait times for minor surgeries can be as high as a year or more. And as a result, Canadians with wealth will often seek much needed medical attention beyond their borders.

Here's a short documentary which seeks to expand upon that point further. It's entitled Dead Meat.

"Dead Meat is a 25 minute short film which shows the reality of health care under Canada's socialized medical system: Canadians wait ... and wait ... and wait. ... And sometimes they die while waiting for free government health care."

In my opinion, universal health care is an inevitability. Whether we want it or not, it's coming. However, with open-borders and American altruism, it'll cost us an arm and a leg and quality of service.

"Dead Meat is a 25 minute short film which shows the reality of health care under Canada's socialized medical system: Canadians wait ... and wait ... and wait. ... And sometimes they die while waiting for free government health care."

Yes, so I've heard. Do I think it has happened? Quite probably, do I think you have made a case that it is representative of the Canadian system? Absolutely not.

Why? Because ever major study ever done on the subject suggests you are wrong.

Most recent one I read. You'll see that overall mortality in Canada is LOWER than in the USA for people entering the healthcare system. Have I said the Cdn system is perfect? Absolutely not, as I think it has serious problems as well (like patient abuse). I think the answer to the problems in the Canadian system are fixed easily (with user fees - Americans call them co-pays). Slap a small user fee on services and it takes away the guy who only has a headache out of the ER.

Am I wrong? Probably, but since you know more about this subject than I, could you direct me to some resources that purport to show me how wrong I am? It'll be much appreciated.

Overall mortality in Canadian hospitals may be lower than in the US system (by 5%). But if you cannot enter the system in the first place (the article mentions that wait times in Canadian hospitals are much higher than the US), then what's the difference?

(I also have quibbles about mortality figures, but I don't think this is the forum to air those comments.)

Just to clear things up, I don't think a Canadian style health care system will be such a bad thing. But I am a skeptic. I'm weary of those that believe that we can adopt a system from one country and expect it to work in ours, given our unique circumstances and demographics.

In essence, what works in Sweden won't always work in the USA.

There's a couple of journal articles by a Canadian social scientist, Keith Banting, that explores that topic further. I'll post links if I find them.

I think the answer to the problems in the Canadian system are fixed easily (with user fees - Americans call them co-pays). Slap a small user fee on services and it takes away the guy who only has a headache out of the ER.

It might work in Canada, but it sure does nothing here. My wife worked in ER admitting for a while and saw all kinds of people come in all the time for paper cuts and headaches, despite having co-pays of even $200. Here I think that has more to do with the "I want it now" mentality as usually doctors only keep regular office hours and even urgent care clinics usually close around 11 or midnight. So, if they have a headache late at night, they don't want to wait until 8; they want it right now.

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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

^^^ Shocking but good to know. I guess I oversimplified the solution as any "quick fix" is usually not the answer, I had assumed the idiot going to the ER for a headache would think twice if it actually cost him/her.

Or that the person has been trained to think critically while attempting to think quickly (which is not the case). I don't know why people have this need to snap to a decision ASAP without considering options (oh, right, decisiveness is a virtue... but this is too much).

OTOH, it would help if people weren't constantly paranoid about each headache being some sort of life-changing thing...

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"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."" Isaac Asimov

I agree with you that the cases he showed abroad were definitely rosier than could reasonably be expected, but he did make a good point that socialization is not what we've been told it is. It's not evil, it's not repressive, and it's not substandard. Thank you for the story.

By the way, what are house calls?

It's when you are ill or your child is ill, and you pick up the phone and ask a doctor to come over. In the former USSR, that was a routine, a part of life nobody could even imagine existing without. A physician would show up in an hour or so (in emergency cases, even earlier). He/she would examine the patient, write referrals, prescriptions, and a document exempting from work/school (in regular cases, it was for up to three days). If a patient had fever and/or other serious symptoms, the physician would always come back again in a two or three days, for a follow-up. Pediatricians who took care of small kids could come back even on a daily basis. All calls were free of charge (sometimes patients stuffed small gifts or small denomination paper money into doctors' pockets, as a sign of their gratitude, but that was actually illegal).

Of course, as always, there was a lot of abuse of the system. Old retired people sometimes called doctors simply because they needed someone to talk to. Schoolchildren and college kids could invent most fantastic reasons for a doctor's call because they just did not want to go to school, etc.

Also, this system was a terrible burden on doctors in big cities during the times of flu epidemics. I remember that when I was a "subordinator" (a 6th- year medical school student, close to graduation) working as a "district practicioner" in Kyiv in late January-early February 1981, at the hight of flu, I made something like 30-35 calls per day, and that was considered a very light load; "real" doctors could have a lot more calls.

Thanks for the information on house calls (BTW, I understand the concept; I was merely making the point that in the US, the idea of a doctor making them is so far in the past it borders absurdity). It is interesting that such a thing can work, and work well, under a state system. After all, police make house calls; I had an officer come out when I lost my wallet once, and filed the report right there. Why not doctors? Of course, the "false report" check on calling the police over nothing doesn't work quite as well with medicine, as it's less clear to many people what is/isn't serious. The point is, though, that it works in other places, so it could work here--if we commit ourselves to finding a workable system.

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"It is remarkable that what we call the world...in what professes to be true...will allow in one man no blemishes, and in another no virtue."--Charles Dickens

Thanks for the information on house calls (BTW, I understand the concept; I was merely making the point that in the US, the idea of a doctor making them is so far in the past it borders absurdity). It is interesting that such a thing can work, and work well, under a state system. After all, police make house calls; I had an officer come out when I lost my wallet once, and filed the report right there. Why not doctors? Of course, the "false report" check on calling the police over nothing doesn't work quite as well with medicine, as it's less clear to many people what is/isn't serious. The point is, though, that it works in other places, so it could work here--if we commit ourselves to finding a workable system.

Agreed. I was shocked when I saw doctors making house calls in the movie. There have been times where I have been so sick, I literally could not go to the doctor. I remember I made myself go one time because I was sure I would have died if I didn't. It was so horribly painful words wouldn't even describe how horrible I felt those few hours. Plus I was stuck in the waiting room forever at a Kaiser Permamente hospital (which quite frankly, any national healthcare clinic could not be as bad as their waiting rooms).

I like to think outside the box. I am open to the possibility they could work in the future.

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Being that I've only recently began to look at the situation, I can't really add much to the topic; at least, that is, when we're discussing nationalized health care. Until the country can come up with a viable solution though, it seems that a pro-active outlook would be decent start. By that I mean that we, Americans, need to become actively engaged in seeking a more healthy lifestyle. The two BIG words in this approach are DIET and EXCERCISE. We are killing ourselves with our pleasure oriented, immediate gratification based society. Rather than trying to cook healthy meals, we grab a processed (very unhealthy) pre-cooked boxed or canned meal. I realize that for many of us, time is of the essence. But that's the point I'm trying to make here. Try to eliminate the unnecessary activities in your life so that you do have time to prepare more healthy meals. And as far as becoming more healthy goes, we're going to have to become more active. There's no way around it. You can lose weight with pills and gimmicky diets, but that doesn't mean you'll be healthy; skinny does not necessarily mean healthy. Consider it axiomatic that it *will* be difficult at first. Your body won't immediately like it, you might go through sugar withdrawals, and you'll feel pretty yucky for the first week or so. Afterwards- you won't believe just how good you feel. And your energy level will skyrocket. As a sidenote- I'm talking in general here. I realize there are people with extenuating circumstances that will prevent or limit them from fully realizing my advice. As always, before you begin any kind of exericise regiment, pls talk it over with your PHP.

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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying

Being that I've only recently began to look at the situation, I can't really add much to the topic; at least, that is, when we're discussing nationalized health care. Until the country can come up with a viable solution though, it seems that a pro-active outlook would be decent start. By that I mean that we, Americans, need to become actively engaged in seeking a more healthy lifestyle. The two BIG words in this approach are DIET and EXCERCISE. We are killing ourselves with our pleasure oriented, immediate gratification based society. Rather than trying to cook healthy meals, we grab a processed (very unhealthy) pre-cooked boxed or canned meal. I realize that for many of us, time is of the essence. But that's the point I'm trying to make here. Try to eliminate the unnecessary activities in your life so that you do have time to prepare more healthy meals. And as far as becoming more healthy goes, we're going to have to become more active. There's no way around it. You can lose weight with pills and gimmicky diets, but that doesn't mean you'll be healthy; skinny does not necessarily mean healthy. Consider it axiomatic that it *will* be difficult at first. Your body won't immediately like it, you might go through sugar withdrawals, and you'll feel pretty yucky for the first week or so. Afterwards- you won't believe just how good you feel. And your energy level will skyrocket. As a sidenote- I'm talking in general here. I realize there are people with extenuating circumstances that will prevent or limit them from fully realizing my advice. As always, before you begin any kind of exericise regiment, pls talk it over with your PHP.

I know you read my paper, that is a good start in the right direction in beginning to learn about the subject. Secondly, I would suggest going to see the movie "Sicko". It is currently playing at the cambel 16 theater in Springfield.

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

I know you read my paper, that is a good start in the right direction in beginning to learn about the subject. Secondly, I would suggest going to see the movie "Sicko". It is currently playing at the cambel 16 theater in Springfield.

Yes, I did read it, and it was/is very good, insightful and thought provoking. Yet, I still don't feel qualified to weigh in on the subject as I haven't done as much study on the subject as you and the others have. Though I plan on seeing the movie sometime this week, I'll need to do some more research before I feel comfortable in addressing the subject with such heavyweights as you and the Nacho.

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"The Scots-Irish; Brewed in Scotland, bottled in Ireland, uncorked in America." ~Scots-Irish saying

Yes, I did read it, and it was/is very good, insightful and thought provoking. Yet, I still don't feel qualified to weigh in on the subject as I haven't done as much study on the subject as you and the others have. Though I plan on seeing the movie sometime this week, I'll need to do some more research before I feel comfortable in addressing the subject with such heavyweights as you and the Nacho. Smiley

By virtue of the fact that you read my paper and read my postings (as well as nacho's), it makes you an expert.

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

My wife worked in ER admitting for a while and saw all kinds of people come in all the time for paper cuts and headaches, despite having co-pays of even $200. Here I think that has more to do with the "I want it now" mentality as usually doctors only keep regular office hours and even urgent care clinics usually close around 11 or midnight. So, if they have a headache late at night, they don't want to wait until 8; they want it right now.

And now, the wife will weigh in with her thoughts. The $200 we ask for in our ER is for self pay patients, actually. It's meant as a sort of "down payment" toward the total bill (and for reference, it's set at $200 because there is no ER charge less than $200). The usual situation is that those patients don't pay anything. We get a lot of people who move and leave no forwarding address or give a fake address. We actually have a self pay discount and several charity programs available, so it's not that we can't make arrangements in cases where patients have no means to pay. There are several managed care and private insurance companies who expect co-pays now, generally between $50-$275 for an ER visit. Even working for this hospital and using their insurance, my ER copay is $150. (So much for employee discounts. )

Sadly enough, user fees or co-pays don't deter many people from coming in with ailments that could wait until the next day. Some of our most commonly seen complaints are sore throats, coughs, toothaches, and back pain. In extreme cases, yes, these needed to come to ER because they had pneumonia or a fractured spine, but more commonly these patients want what they think is free medication and service (assuming their insurance will pay) or they're looking for narcotics. I think every hospital gets drug seekers, but it seems the non-profit ones who routinely accept Medicaid get the brunt of it. And hey, if you just stay a step ahead of the collections department you won't have to pay anyway, so why should you care if your debt makes everyone else's insurance premiums go up? And naturally, it seems those are the people who are most demanding. They insist they should be seen immediately because they're worse off than everyone else waiting, yes, even worse than the guy having the heart attack. So yes, I agree, there is a lot of "I want it now" mentality and general selfishness for those patients who come in for minor things. By the way, most of them come in about once a week.

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

Welcome EofK!While I agree there is a potential for abuse, the experience of Universal Health Care in Australia has been that this can be prevented by including all Health Care under Medicare. For example, visiting a General Practitioner is covered by Medicare, Drug and Alcohol services (including Methadone and Buprenorphine Maintenance Programs) are covered by Medicare. This means that those seeking treatment for non-urgent conditions and drug addiction can be easily treated elsewhere in the system other than ER. Universal Health Care can only work if all three levels of Primary, Secondary and and Tertiary Healthcare services are covered. If only Tertiary Health Care (hospitals) are covered, then they will be abused.The other thing that we found has worked here is GP (General Practitioner) Clinics in Hospitals. Often, people can't distinguish what is or isn't an urgent medical condition, and will front up to ER to have it diagnosed. Our hospitals now have 24hr GP Clinics with GP's available, so if someone turns up to ER with a minor complaint, they can be triaged by the Triage nurse as not requiring the ER but requiring a GP, and are sent to the GP Clinic. Both services are free, and either way, they get seen by a doctor.

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If you're living a happy life as a Christian, you're doing something wrong.

The movie itself seemed to be less inflammatory than Moore's other films, perhaps because he wasn't reacting to a particular tragedy that he had nothing to do with. (And I liked it because of that.) I do think he picked the worst situations for the American healthcare examples and the best situations for the Canadian, British, and Cuban hospitals. One of the women talking about the American experience mentioned she was expected to precertify her ambulance ride to the ER and that sounds terribly unfair, but in my experience most insurances give you 48-72 hours to call them after your visit is finished.

Also, I tend to notice background music in films and it was so predictable in this one with swelling strings at the sad moments, happier music in the pleasant "look how great foreign medicine is" parts. Moore knows how to use filmmaking formula very effectively. I didn't notice anything particularly special about the filmmaking itself, though.

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

While I agree there is a potential for abuse, the experience of Universal Health Care in Australia has been that this can be prevented by including all Health Care under Medicare. For example, visiting a General Practitioner is covered by Medicare, Drug and Alcohol services (including Methadone and Buprenorphine Maintenance Programs) are covered by Medicare. This means that those seeking treatment for non-urgent conditions and drug addiction can be easily treated elsewhere in the system other than ER. Universal Health Care can only work if all three levels of Primary, Secondary and and Tertiary Healthcare services are covered. If only Tertiary Health Care (hospitals) are covered, then they will be abused.The other thing that we found has worked here is GP (General Practitioner) Clinics in Hospitals. Often, people can't distinguish what is or isn't an urgent medical condition, and will front up to ER to have it diagnosed. Our hospitals now have 24hr GP Clinics with GP's available, so if someone turns up to ER with a minor complaint, they can be triaged by the Triage nurse as not requiring the ER but requiring a GP, and are sent to the GP Clinic. Both services are free, and either way, they get seen by a doctor.

The hospital I work for has been trying to get something like the general practitioner in triage for a while, but there are a lot of issues to work out. Most of them boil down to "no doctor want to sit in triage all day, it's not important enough." I am all for having a physician triaging patients by medical necessity. In fact, this hospital provides a 24 hour hotline where you can talk to a triage nurse who will determine if you should go to ER or wait to see a primary care doctor. I've called it a couple of times, once for getting jalapeno oil in my eyes (and home by myself, so I couldn't drive myself to a clinic and wasn't about to call an ambulance for something that stupid). If they do end up referring a patient with my particular insurance to ER, they'll reimburse us $25 just for calling to check first. Nice incentive, that.

« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 06:34:47 PM by EofK »

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

You are the first lady of St. Thomas on this board. Don't worry about any of the bruts on here bullying you. The St. Thomas clan will protect you with our verbal kung-fu.

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

Like I said, it was a great movie; don't get me wrong. I do think; however, Michael Moore looked as though he gained about 50 more lbs between this movie and his last. When he talked, he quite often sounded like he was wheezing to me. Am I the only one who noticed this?? If I was a millionaire, I would hire a gourmet nutritional chef. I would eat nutritiously and in style all the time. Let the poor people who don't have insurance eat the bad food!

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!

I do think; however, Michael Moore looked as though he gained about 50 more lbs between this movie and his last. When he talked, he quite often sounded like he was wheezing to me. Am I the only one who noticed this??

I noticed that as well and I wondered if he didn't make this movie because his own insurance (assuming he has any) screwed him over. A lot of doctors will recommend a weight management program but insurances won't cover it because it's considered "not medically necessary." But then if your weight is obviously impairing your life, wouldn't you think it would be in the patient's best interest to do something about that? And really, from the insurance's standpoint, a little weight maintenance would be much cheaper than treating heart disease, diabetes, etc. The hospital I work for offers weight management plans that include nutrition education, supervised exercise programs, etc. All of which cost maybe $500 total without insurance. Way cheaper than bypass surgery.

« Last Edit: July 27, 2007, 05:36:31 PM by EofK »

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Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -- Douglas Adams

I noticed that as well and I wondered if he didn't make this movie because his own insurance (assuming he has any) screwed him over. A lot of doctors will recommend a weight management program but insurances won't cover it because it's considered "not medically necessary." But then if your weight is obviously impairing your life, wouldn't you think it would be in the patient's best interest to do something about that? And really, from the insurance's standpoint, a little weight maintenance would be much cheaper than treating heart disease, diabetes, etc. The hospital I work for offers weight management plans that include nutrition education, supervised exercise programs, etc. All of which cost maybe $500 total without insurance. Way cheaper than bypass surgery.

Very well put Mrs. Y

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Troparion - Tone 1:O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!