posted May 11, 201621:21
Here is a Midland break action a guy is doing in 24ga FH.

Here is old catalog picture of different stuff used in old daysfor shotgun loads. Some would be hairy in brass cases

Here is picture of a MN a guy is doing 585HE in..It is singleshot. Redid bolt handle, mounted it on the bolt further back, so the port could be lengthened for our long case.Also puts handle back where it is easier to grab.Needs, more shaping, polishing, blueing, scope rail added.

Here is another picture of the 585HE with great looking stock.Nice looking wood. Ed

posted January 06, 201723:18
Our friend Brian from the far north went to Africa with his 24ga FH he did ina NEF break action and got 3 nice buffs with it. Good job.

Our 585HE, 700HE and the great 12ga FH are now in the new COTW bookpublished in Oct, now out for sale,

We now have our target 375 HE cartridge, made by necking down our 585 HE.The other couldn't make enough 375s, so we started our own. It has different shoulder taper, length, neck length, improved over the other one...Got a bunchguys doing it, most into the 2 mile shooting venues, We're making cases,testing, reamer prints at reamer guys, we are getting guys going. King of 2 mileshoot last year really got the interest booming for 375 necked from our case,

Here's how we size and seat 375 HE, a simple die, a 1" die, no huge dies needed A die we can make with resize reamer from reamer guy, a regular die body,then pass on to the next guy, one reamer can make whole bunch of dies for folks.

I do primer work separate, not in the press.That way I can clean pocket, checkflash hole,....... SO First with lock ring set, I size cases.

When coming back out of dies with case, we notice the case still well centered, held straight, when it is down as far as the length of the 375 HE neck... IEthe sides and shoulder corner still supported tight. About .35" down.

So we put washer or another lock ring on, same thickness as neck length,below original lock ring, screw down tight tight in press,

Dies had a 5/8 x 24 thread in top, had powder fill bushing and other stuff same thread, reamed out from bottom to set bullet height, with ram, case,and bullet up,

After priming, loading in the powder charge, we carefully start(boat tail makes it easy) bullet in case by hand, slide up in die, into holder, raise ram to to top, bullet seated perfect. Die can have different thread in top as long as big enough to hold seating bushing of some kind , that can be made from many items.

These target bullets held in by strong neck tension, no crimping needed, and notice bullet point will get no marks or dents, fast, easy, no 380-500 buck special dies. Bushing centering bullet on ogive is very accurate.

OVER 900 375HE cases piled behind presses getting done. About 600 on another bench nearly ready. Small batches in shelves.And we will do more.

posted April 25, 201715:29
Here is picture of a brake on 12ga FH with real hot loadedhollowbase lead slug, brake needed more clearancefor the expanding slug.

Here is the before and after of 375 HE cases, 2 on left necked, 2 on right formed in hydro die after necking..

Here is pic of 416 HSM second from left we are experimentingwith, going to see if we can make the ultimate 416 ELR case.Can be 3.60" to 4.00" long, a long one pictured.Holds over 280 gr ball powder under bullet. In the picture,1st case is 416 HE, 2nd 416 HSM, 3rd 375 HE, 4th 378 WEA.

416 HSM will get 400gr to 4100 plus without needing BMG action,470 gr 3800 plus , it may be the ultimate target, singleshot 416..Case will work in fat bolt actions, with heavy enough barrelto have good, milder, barrel harmonics and srtill be under 50 lbs.A lot of the 2 mile type shoots are adopting 50lb limit.

Here is picture of the 416 HSM fireformed once, next to bmg case we make it from and as we improve wildcatting process next few weeks some specs may make small changes, now from base to shoulder is 3.45", case 3.97" long. Ed..

Manson has 416 HE and 408 HE prints, as well as 375 HEHe can also make you a resize die reamer from that info.We got 700 cases in 416 and one more pass if 408s wanted, , Going to do lot more cases for these 2 sizes also,Questions, PM or email. ph 989-644-5228..

posted June 26, 201712:47
Guys asking about strong economical bolt gun to use for 28ga and410 ga and 32ga with brass cases and higher pressures than plastic cases.They can use a MN bolt action, here is pic of one withour 585 case in the action.Guys can get Magtech brass cases or have RMC make them....Guys can make 32ga case from 500 NE,410s from 9.3 x 74 brass, etc..

Here is picture of our 416 HSM case sectioned next to originalBMG case on the right sectioned, to show that we still haveenough thickness in the sides to handle high pressure,in a case with 310 gr capacity..We are getting the wildcatting work set up so we can do at least hundred a month.We have lots of 585s, 375HEs, 416 HEs, 408 HEs.....And working toward getting 416 HSMs in big numbers.

Here's comparison of 416 target cases, 1st 416 HE, have whole bunch. Second is model of what I'd have made on medium machine, if I could, the 416 HE Long. It has capacity of 230gr.. Third is our 416 HSM which we are working on making by wildcatting bmgcases, And if had run long cases, make longer 375 HE necking down 416 ..

posted July 23, 201718:06
The 12ga FH case now is in the new COTW book onlast page in the wildcat section, I think page 324.They gave good credit to Rob for the idea of that case....

The model 416 HE long case in middle, hydro formed one,

has case capacity of 240 gr, and the 416 HSM in picture,

on the right, we fired a case twice, capacity is 320gr.. Ed..

More info out now; short, fat cases sticking, pockets not lasting as expected.Trying to get best speeds the things raising pressures are bad case proportions, too sharp of shoulders, too fast of powders........... and debth of the bullet into the powder space, as shown in the picture below..My 375, 416, etc testing, bullets loaded like bottom one, in longer freebore....Ed.

posted February 12, 201808:39
For big long cases our testing is showing that the 416 easier to get powders to work with, less problems ..Maybe building a target gun,don't have 375 barrel all ready, maybe go 416....

We got cases, 416 HE and 416 HSM, as well as 375...CEB and others will have bullets...CEB will be doing .416 in 450gr, 475gr, 500gr, 525gr and 550gr

Got sent 5 thick sided sample cases, same OD base as 585/375.416 cases, same belt, just .180" longer, did a 416 HE, chambered extra barrel , cases stick over 50k. They have about .042" total taper, .021" per side, when I necked couple to 416. That is a lot of taper , twice the taper of my 416HE...hanging up at 50k..

I could maybe go to 65k with these if we made taper with ..012" - .016" more taper to each side, but that is no way to build target cases. I'd have to crunch down case shoulder diameter. And would look like 30-30.

And crazy part is, the case has enough brass material to thin up sides and stretch them way out to 4 or more inches,, They weigh 150 gr more than our 585/375/416,, but with real thick sides they actually hold less than our 416 HE with thin sides, that is .180" shorter...Our case does 65k ok without sticking..

And we can make super long 4" cases work if we had means to get them built, as we have 15 powders slower than HBMG.Here is pic of thin and thick sided cases, sectioned for comparison.Ed..

posted March 04, 201821:42
Here is a drawing depicting the layout of thick and thin sided cases,like my 585/375/416 HE thin sided ones and the thick one in picture.

And my 585 case is not perfect, as where it transitions from theheavier corner to the side it isn't gradual, so case separates thereshortening case life. There are others made that way including brand X.The dotted line is what it should be............

Others have sent cases to section and look at, that are built thick sided and they stick also for the folks, If a longer case with about 5 sq in of side surface sticks and don't spring back, the coefficient of friction is about .01 then the pull needed to move it is 2500-3500 lbs..That is for big cases with normal amount of slant to the sides.

In the picture the nyati gma is one we built most of our first 585s on. Before we had factory run. Reworking made it in size that is my 585 HE, but that brass had the sides of perfect thickness, not too thick, but thin without sharp transition my new factory 585s had, they last forever as 585s......

Fourth one is an older nyati case I used to make about 10 of my 585s from,had thin sides, heavy corner and sharp transition from the corner, tested 20 years ago, and they would separate after 4-6 hot loadsas 585s, my factory 585 with right powders, as a 585 will get 10 hot loads, and necked down to416/375 4- 6 hot loads, right powders used, Moderate 577 equivalent, factory 585 at least 20 loads..Ed.
Posts: 380 | From: Brinton(Mail Lake),MI-USA | Registered: Sep 2000
| IP: Logged

posted March 21, 201815:21
Guy sent thick sided 375 case, next size base diameter up from Nyati.He said,'Yes I ran them in a ___________ rifle built by ____, the best I could get was 44000 psi, any more and they were stuck''

Big bore guys. other forums over the years related that trex/african case in 585size, thick sided cases, stuck when they loaded them over 45k psi.

Another just sent us, thick sided 375, long case, same base OD as our 585 HE,416 HE, 375 HE, and Mitch's 375 Lethal, and the thick ones stuck over 45k psi.

Now you can fill those cases up, with ultra slow enough powder so they won'tstick, but powder is too slow for max speed. Might get a little more speed, with thick sides case, but case got to be 4- 4.5 inches long..

. Anyone needing a sectioned case of the ones I made the first of my 585s from, contact me, if they want to get a general idea of what case side thickness should be, in Gibbs size cases on up to about trex and 375 VM size case diameter.

Here is pic of our 585 based case next to brand X and thick ones, both have same sharp, thinner, corner, where transition from heavy angled corner, to the side, the carbide draw rod could easily be reshaped with diamond wheel, just by grinding off sharp transition corner. Then sides would be perfect.., .

Here is picture of 416 HE in a Choate target/varmint stock guy is doing,using long action BSA U9 action.Setting in stock ready to do bedding..Ed

posted April 20, 201807:29
Here is picture of thick 375 case sent to me, with thick sided trex case, and our HE case,The thick 375 case is .050" bigger OD base, but inside is no bigger than HE cases..These thick sided 375s stuck for the guy using them, when loaded over 44,000 psi....

Got guys asking and doing it, to do 416 HSM case for BMG actions, so leaving rim same,as the original bmg rim, so will neck them, fire form to the longer shoulder, like the others. Base a little bigger, Shoulder same diameter, same 30 degree slant, neck will be same..

Inside of case still has close to same shape, volumne within 3 % as ones we slimmed down more.Some want to use bmg actions and can't wait for intermediate actions, or already have bmg action.And they are really getting interested in the complete line of 416 CEB bullets now being doneclear up to 550 gr...

So there will be 3 versions, one for actions .750" bolt, one for .800-.850" bolt, And one for bigger bmg bolts. The ones for BMG called 416 HSM2 ..

Here is 416 HSM guy working in a Montana PH, in a heavy thumbhole target stock. Ed

All contributions become the property of HardCoreTalk.com The Opinions, Views and Comments expressed by the members of this forum and website are their own and do not necessarily state or reflect those of HardCoreTalk.com or any of it's agents. HardCoreTalk.com does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of these messages and opinions, and does not perform an independent investigation to verify their truth or accuracy. All posted messages are the sole responsibility of the person from which such post originated. HardCoreTalk.com assumes no liability in any way for the content of any posted message or opinion, including, but not limited to, any errors or omissions in any posted message
FAIR USE NOTICE
This board contains copyrighted material, which is reproduced under the Fair Use Provision of Title 17, U.S.C. Section 107, and is posted for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research. This material is posted without profit for the benefit of those who, by accessing this site, are expressing a prior interest in this information for research and educational purposes.
This discussion board is strictly operated as a non profit venture and is for the express purpose of educating and informing our members and visitors.