Friday, April 02, 2010

The Current Crop of Black Men (Contd!)

There are things black women are not allowed to admit even if it is staring them in the face. Black women are desperate to see black men as part of the solution not the major part of the problem that they actually now represent to black women and the general black situation.

It's like one of those equations that you struggle with and it never balances, you go to bed with it and think and think how you can get it to balance. You say 'Should I put A on the left hand side or on the right?' .... it never balances until you do the right thing and in this case until you put black men in the side of 'the problem'. Then everything falls into place.

'The current stock of black men are not interested in the uplift of the black family, once you recognize this fact, every other thing explains itself.'

'Black men are a fallen pillar which will never uphold a race', looking to them to do this is just an effort in futitlity. Recognize this is and save yourself the time and energy of crying over them and wishing they would just plug in to the black effort etc etc.

Accept that, IT IS THE WAY IT IS, which would then beg the question, 'what are you going to do about it on a practical term now with this situation, to get yourself what you need now they as men are out of the equation?'

One of those things black women are not allowed to admit is that, we are not dealing with the same breed of black men that was our fathers generation.

We are dealing with men who have different uses of women than their fathers. What you think they still need you the black woman, for, well guess what, it is not what they do, just look around you if in doubt.

They are not working or willing to work with black women towards the plans that their fathers had as goals and dreams for their community. And before we start on the ‘what have black women done to bring this about’ detour (which is always the knee jerk response that occurs whenever such issues are raised), let us take needed time to dwell on this analysis part because it is never done and is crucial in understanding what happened and what next for black women.

We have a different breed of black men that have their own priorities, interests, politics and plans and uses for women, again a different set of priorities, concerns and interests and uses of women than that of past generations.

Most black men are not emotionally invested into worrying about the state of the former AA family. Most of them just don't care about it; and they like the status quo (having an unmarried, desperate, "surplus" population of black women to be used for The Booty Call Corps).- Khadija

It is not that black women cannot see but it is often that they are not allowed to admit this to themselves because that is like saying 'THE END'. And of course the black community has no 'terminal point' for black women to throw up their hands and says ‘well there is nothing left to this idea of black men and women together.’ You see black women are expected (and know they are), to stay down in the trenches fighting a lost war (that tells you something about the value on black women's lives doesnt it). Black women are not allowed to admit that 'it is over' even if it is glaringly obvious.

This boils down to permission again, the fact that black women look for permission to name what they see, and admit their fears for what they are, so they can move forward (See, admit, and move on or remain trapped in nervousness and apprehension if you resist the truth!), and because the black community wants them to 'Stay the course', permission will be denied. Indeed didnt you know, that its all about staying the course, all this aggitation when black women think about doing things differently, its because black women have to stay the course, thats all. It has never been about finding a solution to the issues affecting black women, its simply about getting the black woman to stay the course even that which will send them over the clift. I mean notice the exchange when black women say things are hurting or not working for them, there is either blame or a countering of their assertions or folk tell them that they are imagining things and etc etc. Is it not clear that this responses is geared towards getting black women to stay the course no matter how unprofitable. And some of you thought these folks engaging you really cared about your situation lol!

Someone said to me the current crop of black men are created not born, and I agree with that assertion. Many black women are afraid of admitting the truth about black men because they think that would be saying that black men are inherently bad and selfish etc etc but again this has never been the case. Admitting that a generation of men are on a different path to black women has never meant saying they are innately bad, just accepting that paths have divereged, but we have been warned this is what it means by those who 'suprise suprise', want to head off any dawning reality of what black men are really about.

When you look at the actions and acivities of the current crop of black men, it makes sense within the framework of self-centredness and personal aggrandizenment. It is only when you look at their activities throught the prism of 'but they are suppose to be all about the community', thats when you see their actions as selfish....

CONTINUED

“If black men where really all about black unity, they wouldn’t have the highest interracial rates in Europe”.

Characteristics of current stock of black men

Black men have been free agents detached from community concerns

Black men are about their immediate gratification to much to put up with the regimes of discipline required to push race ahead.

The focal point of black men isn’t community but personal aggrandizement and there is strong opportunism which comes at the expense of a general black interest so much so a general black interest plan is no longer viable.

Whether black men do even register their actions on a conscious level, does indeed say something final about their participation in 'continuing’ a black community. “It seems to me that black men have become so used to being given the whole and full floor that they actually have lost the ability to reflect and see how selfish and self serving they have become.”-cw

Black men act as free agents in the presence of opportunity, they are not used to putting any moral or ethical barriers in the way of personal aggrandizement even that which comes at the expense of the general body of black people.

BWE/IR writers speak about how black men deliberately leverage wider racism and racist practice in their personal pursuit of status, and self-aggrandizement. Yes black men might not have generated the original oppressive forces against the black community, but have become effective ‘Agents’ of white racism against black women and their communities. Though this key point is down played and skirted in general black commentary for obvious reasons, BWE/IR writers are adamant that this calls for a reassessment of the idea of brotherhood with black men.

Indeed why would black men co-operate with and indeed exploit for personal gain, a system that has its foot on their necks and the necks of 'their people' rather than seek to undermine and destroy it. Anyone who answers with a,‘Well it’s human nature to take advantage of a situation to ones benefit,’ has just about admitted a key fact here that black men no longer possess the ‘spirit’ needed to advance the black race. GAME OVER!

It has always been about having the 'spirit' and 'ineterst' and 'committment' to race. Many black women dont understand this key point and go on about, 'Well if black women would do X Y Z then black men would respond favourably!' But you see, the terms and conditions of 'black uplift' were never about it being pleasurable and immediately beneficial to participate! It was always about sacrifice and the willingness to sacrifice and forgo certain options and choices in other words A LABOUR OF LOVE. At the point where it became about making it worth while for black men to be for their communtities, families etc, at that point, all is already lost, because building the race was always going to be a hard, thankless job, that required the spirit of sacrifice and committmnet, not immediate tallying of what stands to my immediate and self-above community gain. This is how it becomes clear that the 'spirit' for community uplift among black men is lost.

A social set up which black men reacted to and where enabled to react to in a very self serving way, has resulted in the self-absorbed black man of today and there is no rewind button, so black women shouldn’t internalise any blame (as they usually do in these cases) and try to get involved in some salvaging operation.

Yes the black man’s politics has become very self serving. Everything about race/racism and the whole ’how black people can overcome’ talk etc is co-opted by them into their own personal aggrandizement plans. He expects to feed from the community and take refuge in it, as a right, and yet is not requested to invest something back into it, in fact is so totally oblivious about how it sustains itself.

Black men’s definition of race uplift is, ‘If I am doing well then that represents the race doing well’, ‘hence my personal aggrandiszement should be pursued with all zeal'. However black women don’t count their individual progress as synonymous with race progress in fact black women feel guilty and are made to feel guilty and to look into ‘giving back’ each time they make marginal progress, even when they do not have the surplus to do so.

Culled from a free booklet, 'Why Are Black Men this way?' available for free download in May 2010

You can gain insight into the relationship reality facing black women today, and find out more about the Interracial Option, read the IR E-book

81 comments:

trish
said...

I think most people have an inkling as to what’s going on with black males but are too afraid to say.I was on facebook and I saw that my cousin (black male) had a poll asking women to pick the category to which they belong, “bust it babies, wifey, or some other unflattering ghetto term used to describe black women. I wanted to ask him why it was necessary to classify black women in such derogatory terms but I knew I didn’t go to enough family reunions to offer such a critique. It did, however, make it crystal clear to me that today’s black male places little value on black women.

Le sigh. I've been fighting the good fight and saying the EXACT same thing on my BW hair board in the context of Jill Scott's latest addition to the tired "Waiting to Exhale" meme...more "get it" than you might suspect, but still far too few.

On the whole, many BW are starting to wonder what's the deal and are starting to think for themselves, slowly....VERY slowly. Permission seeking is a step many are coming to slowly but surely, but it'll be come work to overcome lifelong training on that one. :( The thing that's REALLY troubling is how so many keep wanting BM to account to them for their actions and when they do these women won't actually listen. It's not like these guys are saying they want to be more responsible. They are looking for a bigger pool of suckers and basically say that outright. Just how many times does an adult woman need to be told something in order to "understand"? LOL...what will make these women GROW UP?! Much of this is pure immaturity IMHO.

Ya know, one thing too many BW don't get is that actions have consequences. The more you whine about wanting these BM that don't want you, the more you alienate ALL men. No sane man wants a woman who's either trying to control him w/ guilt/shame OR wants a woman who's so off the cue as to socially acceptable behavior as to behave like Ms. Scott. They don't even see how those actions ARE socially UNacceptable for women in almost every society OTHER than Black American and that men of all races are observing and taking note.

This Jill Scott mess even made it to CNN (hopefully not CNN International, but I fear it has) and few seem to appreciate how alarming and irresponsible it is to have a BW celeb saying things like this?! This is damaging to us ALL and worldwide to boot...not to sound too melodramatic about it, LOL,but it is what it is.

I think some BW are starting to see the serious implications of such "shoot in foot-ism" and hopefully we'll see fewer women sending out these bad memes.

Trish Today's BM places little value on ANY women of any race or even their own kids. All measurable data shows this. This is why they are failures across the board in relationships. They rarely marry anyone and usually fail when they do. BW need to realize that "Becky" ain't getting no prize and let "Becky" have it! LOL The disgusting misogyny you see among many BM is positively Medieval. Even "other races" find this out, the hard way. A woman hating man will hate women...no matter their color. BW need to get over cussin' and cryin' about these dudes UNTIL they show they are capable of growing from spoiled boys to adult men. BW just reward bad behavior from these guys by acting like they are so necessary when they haven't earned that consideration.

I believe Black men as INDIVIDUALS do pretty good and are married to the women (no matter who they are) BUT black men as a GROUP are very VERY trifling and black women need NOT PUT UP WITH THE MESS ANYMORE..I believe it started with the RAP/HIP-HOP culture myself

I agree with anonymous about the rap and hip hop. It first started ok but as it progressed it got worse and worse. Now you see men everywhere with their pants off their behinds, earrings in their ears, wearing pink(camron), grillz, etc. They want to be just like the idiots on tv so bad. Some of them look like zombies to me.

We black women NEED to leave the 'community' whats left of it for a while so it can get strong again. We blacks have a rich heritage and we shouldn't put ourselves in a position of being 1/3 of all abortions AND 70% illegitimacy as well..Only men can raise men: after age 13 especially and when I say men, I mean MEN

We black women NEED to leave the 'community' whats left of it for a while so it can get strong again.

BLACK WOMEN NEED TO LEAVE THE 'COMMUNITY' FOR GREENER PASTURES WHETHER IT GETS STRONG AGAIN AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE OR NOT. REGARDLESS IF "THE BROTHAS" GET THEIR ACTS TOGETHER (ON A MASS LEVEL THEY WON'T BECAUSE THE DESIRE IS SIMPLY NOT THERE) OR NOT.

BLACK WOMEN NEED TO LEAVE THE 'COMMUNITY' FOR GREENER PASTURES WHETHER IT GETS STRONG AGAIN AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE OR NOT. REGARDLESS IF "THE BROTHAS" GET THEIR ACTS TOGETHER (ON A MASS LEVEL THEY WON'T BECAUSE THE DESIRE IS SIMPLY NOT THERE) OR NOT.********************************

Have to agree with Anon 11:20pm. Even if (and that's a BIG IF), masses of black men get their act together and start doing what they are suppose to be doing, Black Women cannot afford to revert back to the UNWAVERING LOYALTY that has caused majority of black men to become so ARROGANT, SELFISH and EGOTISTICAL when in comes to their lack of regard for black women in general.

Black Women need to learn that there is no such thing as UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and SUPPORT w/o RECIPROCITY. Giving, giving and giving to BM w/o demanding much in return is what has gotten BW and overall the BC into the current state it's in.

When it comes to dating/marriage, even if black men get their act together, it should no longer be an automatic assumption that black women would give them first priority just because they are black. They would have to equally compete and qualify with other groups of men based on other criteria.

I hope as the BWE/IR movement grows that black women in America especially, never forget that their destinies don't have to tied to black men. We have options for those who choose to expand their minds and horizons.

I trully believe that the black communities are not asking for or holding these men responsible. The music, the movies are all geared towards this selfish nature: "just get what I want when I want it attitude." Women and families are not valued (but fast money & cars, and loose women are) and unfortunately many women have lowered their standards to be appealing. The down side to that is why should a man ask or look for anything better. Unfortunely, the value of family and quality women seem to be lost in the black community

I don't know where to start. I agree with you about black men. Many of them today as a group don't have any loyalty or respect for black women. Some of them outright proclaim their hatred for black women. As a group, they are also failing as fathers for black children. It seems like they expect for black women to be the sole providers for their children. Just like one poster said, there are individual good black men but as a group the situation is more negative.

The action of black men rejecting their children and black women does have consequences. It leads to low self esteem, breakup of the family unit, and greater rejection from mainstream society. Some non black people are very aware of how black men disrespect and mistreat black women. The racist ones have no sympathy for black women. Sometimes black men let them join in, in degrading black women.

I also read Jill Scott's piece too. I do agree with her sentiments, but it is somewhat embarrassing for this to start becoming public knowledge. Many black women do feel the pain of being rejected and being told in a thousand ways that they are not good enough. This is something only black women should talk about in our own private settings.

On the other hand, I see how her article piece could be used negatively to make us look depressed, and jealous of black men with non black women. Some non black women with black men do feel like they are superior to us and some like to flaunt their relationship because they believe it makes black women jealous and angry. Other non black people have also told us to get over it and let other people have their own preferences. They don't understand the pain, disrespect and rejection that many black women have gone through.

Many black women need to realize that many black men today are racist and sexist to black women. In some cases, they think non black women are superior to us. These men don't care about black women or their children. Black women need to start looking out for only themselves and their children. They need to make better choices in selecting men to be the father of their children. I so so so apologize for this being so long. I had so many thoughts.

So-So True. You ladies are right. This generation of so called black men make the past generations so ashamed they could roll over in their graves. There is no fight in them, no sense of moral uplifting to the young men in front of them. Just give them J Lo or Lucy Lu and a blunt and the rest of the world can just go away. LAZY! DUMB! NASTY! And just plain unappealing is the way I describe them. Other races of men have always,(and still do)fight for what they believe; they do all in their powers to strenghten and protect for their families, but when it comes to black men( who think they are the best things in bed and every woman wants him because of this!!)they don't want to be bothered. That's why I consider myself a human being, proud of who I am. I tell my 3 daughters the same thing. Marry the man who loves and respects you. RACE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. But if it's a black man. NO!!There's just nothing there. You have these foolish men who have been raised by silly black women. Nothing there!! Their ideas of doing the right things are a new pair of Jordan's for everyday day of the week. But you ladies are right and I hope that other ladies who are tired and sick of this nonsense finally wake up. I know other races of men, especailly white men, look at them and just laugh !!

"Indeed didnt you know, that its all about staying the course, all this aggitation when black women think about doing things differently, its because black women have to stay the course, thats all."

Excellent post!!!That's it in a nutshell.Sheer USURY of bw.It's like i've always been saying anytime a black woman shows or says that she desires what other women have,a man that will love her, highly prefer her looks and all, protect and provide for her and their children, she is always told you CAN'T have that and WON'T get that because we,bm,don't think you're worthy of all that cause you're too __________,_____________________,________& ___________ (fill in blanks with any negative or mean spirited comments about bw physical appearance or attitudes)

But we as BW are never tooo anything to be used by bm.You're never too ______ to be sexed by a black man.You're never tooo _______ to bear a black mans children.You're never tooo _________ to have a bm living in your house not contributing anything.You're never toooo _______ to march and protest on behalf of ANY low quality or good quality bm when he experiences some form of harassment from a wm.The only time you as a bw will ever be tooo __________ is when a bm has money or anything of any value to give and he won't ever give it to you because you're tooo __________.

To most bm and many others,bw are nothing more than tools,resources,something given to their cause,something to be used and discarded.I try and tell my sisters that if you tell a man what you want out of a man and a relationship and he tells you you're not worthy because you're tooo__________ BEWARE because you are most likely looking in the face of a USER.

Remember you will never be toooo anything for him to take something away from you.

joanshearer:"Trish Today's BM places little value on ANY women of any race or even their own kids. All measurable data shows this. This is why they are failures across the board in relationships. They rarely marry anyone and usually fail when they do. BW need to realize that "Becky" ain't getting no prize and let "Becky" have it! LOL The disgusting misogyny you see among many BM is positively Medieval. Even "other races" find this out, the hard way. A woman hating man will hate women...no matter their color."

This is how I've felt for a long time now. Modern AA culture is very misogynistic-many AA men simply hate women, period. They put the blame on Black women because that is their closest target. However, their true colors will eventually show as more and more of them date/marry out. I say good riddance!

On the topic of Jill Scott, I honestly don't know what to make of her recent nonsense in Essence. I just saw the cover in the supermarket and kept it moving. I don't support poison with my dollars or time. What's worse is she then pedaled her dribble to CNN.

I am sick and tired of these bm-identified bw being the mouthpiece of ALL bw. This is why I honestly can't stand them. Leave the rest of us alone who don't give fig what bm do. When are bw going to give it up? Decades of the same old whining on this topic. Talk about beating a dead horse. Yet not a beep out of these same misguided bw about the scores of bm abandoning the women they have children with or the violence and contempt they have for black women. But these same women have no problem shooting off at the mouth on bm being with non-bw. Priorities???? Some of us are like a tired broken record that keeps skipping. I don't know if Jill Scott recently got dumped for a ww, but let her own baggage stay rightfully where it belongs-with her.

I truly don't understand this pathological fixation with bm. I really don't, and to be honest, I don't want to.

Shummy I have to admit, I don't feel anything about BM's mating preferences. I don't "wince" or "soul burn" when I see them w/ other because I know they others ain't getting a bargain and I don't feel a loss.

What does bother me is that all in all, no women are getting a bargain at that store! LOL We need to shop elsewhere.

Her meme isn't new...the cat's long out of the bag. It's well known all over and has been since at least the 90s. Anybody who cares (and even those that don't) have heard "BM don't want BW and it makes me so sad..yada yada".

NijaG...you're so right about everything. No matter what happens, BM and BW must relate differently to each other ir these patterns will never break. No point in keeping the same dysfunctional mess going, no matter who we/they marry.

Halima...it's achieved nothing but overempowering the wrong people and disempowering the right people, IMHO. I don't see how people don't see the connection after 20 years. Le shrug.

"I am sick and tired of these bm-identified bw being the mouthpiece of ALL bw. This is why I honestly can't stand them. Leave the rest of us alone who don't give fig what bm do. When are bw going to give it up? Decades of the same old whining on this topic. Talk about beating a dead horse. Yet not a beep out of these same misguided bw about the scores of bm abandoning the women they have children with or the violence and contempt they have for black women. But these same women have no problem shooting off at the mouth on bm being with non-bw. Priorities????"

ITA.

This is slightly off topic, but I was on another board and the men were calling Chilli (TLC) a 'b*tch' and a 'ho' because she didn't want to date a man who eats pork on her TV show.

There were a few BM who thought they were being foolish, but the majority seemed upset because *SHOCK HORROR!* she dared to have her own personal standards.

Of course her age was bought into it, and the 'brothas' were labelling her 'old' and 'washed up'.

I think that her stance on IR dating may have contributed to the hate. (She once said in Essence mag that BW should keep their options open).

You said, "Black men’s definition of race uplift is, ‘If I am doing well then that represents the race doing well’, ‘hence my personal aggrandiszement should be pursued with all zeal'. However black women don’t count their individual progress as synonymous with race progress in fact black women feel guilty and are made to feel guilty and to look into ‘giving back’ each time they make marginal progress, even when they do not have the surplus to do so."

What's so interesting about this (in a car crash sort of way) is that it's upside-down and backwards.

When BM get any significant material resources they typically hand those resources over to the non-Black women (and her non-Black relatives) that they hook up with. OJ, Van Jones, Prof. Henry "Skip" Gates, Reginald Lewis, Kobe Bryant, and so on unto infinity.

Very, very little of anything from BM doing well materially EVER winds up back in the hands of Black people in general. And certainly NOT in the hands of the countless, silent, un-compensated BW who were typically instrumental in supporting that individual BM's rise.

[For those who are confused about this: Just think of all the nameless BW that help with BM's homework assignments throughout high school and college. Who raise money to create stipends and scholarships for them. Who come running to their rescue when they get in any sort of trouble during the early stages of their careers (and beyond). Who eagerly support BM's aspirations in a thousand and one countless and unsung ways.

Now, contrast all this ongoing, critical and material support that BW give to BM's aspirations with how much (or little) BM actively contribute to other BM's aspirations.]

In terms of BW being expected and almost required to "give back"---it's like a tax on BW's resources. BW must pay for having any little bit of advancement in their lives. Whether they can afford to pay this "giving back tax" or not.

But you see, the terms and conditions of 'black uplift' were never about it being pleasurable and immediately beneficial to participate! It was always about sacrifice and the willingness to sacrifice and forgo certain options and choices.

The above sentence speaks to the building up of any nation or group/community. If you look at the history of any great nation or group today and those that are currently on the rise, you will see that it took/takes hard work, sacrifice, dedication, cultural/ethnic pride, Long-Term planning and a VISION.

This starts with the leaders, influencing elites, and then the general population/communities. The problem like you said is that the BM leaders and influencing elites became more about themselves than the community in general. Of course this attitude infected the BM in the general population and that’s how we have the chaos in the BC today.

This issue especially of lack of proper leadership and guidance is not just an AA issue. You can find this in most BCs around the globe although w/o the woman blaming which seems to be for now mostly restricted to black communities in the USA and to some degree U.K.

Black men’s definition of race uplift is, ‘If I am doing well then that represents the race doing well’, ‘hence my personal aggrandiszement should be pursued with all zeal'. However black women don’t count their individual progress as synonymous with race progress in fact black women feel guilty and are made to feel guilty and to look into ‘giving back’ each time they make marginal progress, even when they do not have the surplus to do so.

You know this reminds me of a program I was watching on Micro-Lending in Third World countries (most countries in Africa being included). The banks/organizations said that over the years they had stopped lending to most men because they found that 95% would just spend the money on themselves (not on the proposed business intent, and most times not on their families) on things like drinking, women, using it generally to show off amongst their peers. Also, this money would never get repaid.

However, when they lent the money to women, 95% used it to start their business which in turn helped their families and the general community. The repayment rate was almost 100%. That’s why many micro-lending banks are usually women focused nowadays.

Indeed it has always been about having the 'spirit' and 'ineterst' and 'committment' to race. Many black women dont understand this key point and go on about, 'Well if black women would do X Y Z then black men would respond favourably!' But you see, the terms and conditions of 'black uplift' were never about it being pleasurable and immediately beneficial to participate! It was always about sacrifice and the willingness to sacrifice and forgo certain options and choices. At the point where it became about making it worth while for black men to be for their communtities, families etc, at that point, all is already lost, because building the race was always going to be a hard, thankless job, that required the spirit of sacrifice and committmnet, not immediate tallying of what stands to my immediate and self-above community gain. This is how it becomes clear that the 'spirit' for community uplift among black men is lost.

On having the spirit to uplift the race and the fact that many people,bm specifically,lack it.This reminds me of discussion I had a very long time ago with a bm.We were discussing why all the blame for every problem in black constructs go to black women.This man had engaged in calling out some black women for their negative behaviors and the effect it has on the (non)"community".I bought it to his attention the many ways that black men are contributing to the downfall of the black family and the eradication of the black community.Then I asked him why is it that black men such as himself can "check",police, or "call out" women for their behaviors but NEVER try to "check","police",or "call out" other black men for their dangerous behaviors.He flat out told me it is because he, as well as other black men, are scared of black men and black boys.

Back in the day it seemed like there were black men willing to die for what was right.They were willing to risk being hunted down by other men in their fight to free and provide for their women and children.This has changed.The spirit is not there.They are willing to sell black women out to eat the scraps from the masters table.But they are not going to fight,suffer,or die for the upliftment of anybody.Not even their ownselves.Look at how poorly they represent themselves(Tyler Perry and others).Look at how despite the fact that they may make a little money it ends up right back in the hands of white men and women.They claim they hate white men.They claim white men are the enemy but they marry some of the brokest white women and pay so these women can be stay at home moms for their children and if that white woman has no other siblings and her white father gets old guess who's money pays to support the white father in old age.I don't care what they do but I just like to keep it fresh in my mind why I need to look out for myself and not let the actions or beliefs of any black man dictate what I do with my life.

I believe black men are in a very BAD state BUT ALL MEN across the board are going to college less (it's getting hard for ANY woman to find her husband or boyfriend in college AND ARE WEARING CAMRON AND PIERCING THEIR EARS TOO. not just black men: like being 'macho' or 'passive' although i'm not just making excuses for black men..sistas need to look out for a guy who has it together and don't become 'crybabies' and give you much stress and have YOU lift his load as well as yours..black men as a group are just further downhill

You know what also kills me and sickens me about the typical Jill Scott like diatribes regarding BM and "woe is me the BW b/c NOn BW are taking our men blah blah blah" is that there is always a need to fall back on slavery and use that as a REASON why BM should not pursue Non BW. Yet BM do not seem to be the least bit phased about slavery and lynching’s that were done to them in relation to WW. They seem to have no problems with forgiving all the WW who cried “rape” and got a many of Black men hung back then, so why are BW trying to act like this is a reason BM should stay away from WW? If BM are not bothered by being with WW knowing the history why are BW? Like I told a co worker of mine (yes she is a Jill Scott kinda of sista) and she was like "I understand what Jill was saying". I asked her why BW seem to be bothered by things BM have moved on from. Slavery has not stopped BM ONE IOTA for seeking their happiness and bliss with WW and others.

Notice the only time BM will bring up slavery is when BW start talking about expanding their horizons to dating WM. LOL. You never hear BM telling each other to avoid WHITE WOMEN b/c of what happened during slavery. YET the only time they are concerned with slavery is when BW start openly speaking about dating non BM.

I am sooooo sick of the Jill Scotts and her ilk. As soon as some tired essay like Jill’s hits the airwaves and newsstands you have a flock of BW circling around for the pity party high five slapping and singing negro spirituals on this same beaten dead topic. Its like no one gets it – ITS TIRED, PLAYED AND DEAD! The only people who still care about this crap are silly BW who can’t stop placing their self worth into MEN who could give a rat’s arse about them or if they fell off the face of the earth YESTERDAY! Enough already! I mean daymn BW been crying and complaining about this issue for decades and it hasn't changed anything. BW need to understand they are NOT going to guilt or shame BM into "coming home" to exclusively be with BM and not date Non BW. The reality some sistas do not want to face is BM FEEL NO SPECIAL INTIMATE TIES TO BLACK WOMEN. PERIOD. Accept it and move on already.

The world is moving on and forward and you got silly BW still sitting around accomplishing NADA singing the same ole tunes. Are there any critical thinking BW left anymore? Geez! Jill Scott needs to be ashamed of herself. Frankly, she makes me sick. She pulled this same crap at one of her concerts in LA OVER 10 years ago after having a hissy fit b/c of all the BM that showed up with their non Black partners.

Jill Scott needs to be ashamed of herself. Frankly, she makes me sick. She pulled this same crap at one of her concerts in LA OVER 10 years ago after having a hissy fit b/c of all the BM that showed up with their non Black partners.

I'm not into the neo-soul genre of music so while I know who Jill Scott is I've never really paid attention to her music.

My sister who no longer lives here still has a subscription of Essence and the May issue has Jill Scott as the feature. With all the hoopla, I decided to read what she talking about. I was fine when she talked about her new music and movie.

However, when she she talked about her most recent rlsp that just ended and left her a single baby mama, I had to shake my head. I skimmed most of that part.

I consider her and her cohorts some whom she mentions as close friends (Erykah Badu, Mo'Nique) as the most dangerous type of BM identified BW. I think of them as the Black Power Spiritual Sista Soldiers. Women like them honestly truly believe that with enough love and acceptance that they can help heal the broken and damaged souls/psyches of the BM, especially those they are involved with.

Preach neecy Preach and Jill needs to take Erykyah Badu right along with her ass and sit down. Those so called afro-centric sisters are the worst.Badu kills me with her eccentric ass and wack ass morals talking about people should not eat meat when she needs to leave the man meat alone until she gets married with all those babies she got and no husband.Now Badu is talking about she wants to sex all the rappers and of course everybody is co-signing with her and laughing because she is a down righteous sister and the men she wants are all black.Had some bw star had said she wanted to do the whole new Star Trek movie cast they would have ran her out of town.Brothers heads are all swole up at the attention they have gotten over this mess and now they are walking around like their ish don't stink. Now some preacher has announced he is going to pay erykah's fine for her.WTF people are losing their homes and this church can pay somebody's fine.While bw are going to this church and tithing and barely making ends meet they can pay this wench's fine for strolling around naked trying to be artistic. Black folks are starting to look ridiculous over all this mess and need to get their houses in order.

I only read Jill's article about IR's as a link on the Essence website. Since I don't even LOOK at an MESSence on the newsstand (I won't even read it for free LOL) I will never know who they are interviewing.

I am not surprised by Jill Scott's admissions. She is the typical BC BW who sees the reality and is living it herself and still feels the need to preach and promote this "save our BM from the Non BW" nonsense.

I am actually starting to believe Jill and her ilk don't really believe Black love can be saved. They know they are at Plan -Z for Black "love" and continue to hold onto some already dead ideal b/c they do not have the GUTS or COURAGE to face their fears about expanding their options. It may mean changing their attitudes, realizing that BW have been on their own for decades, losing weight, whatever is going to be needed to be attractive partners to other races of men. instead, they would rather wallow in the cesspool of "eligible BM" b/c that means they as BW don't have to improve much as women (physically/mentally/emotionally)since these BM don't demand anything except that they be worshiped, taken care of and not questioned about the role they play in the destruction of the Black Community.

See many BW realize that healthy men of other races usually REQUIRE or want healthy women. If you are dating a group of males who have no incentive to be men and rely on women for everything, then all you need to bring to the table is a female organ (you know what that is), time and resources you are willing to use to "keep" him around.

DO NOT get me started on Erikah Badu. Now I wasn't aware of her comments about sleeping with all Black rappers. The only thing I have recently been disgusted by is her latest video. I mean really? Seriously? I am all for being deep and thought provoking. But that video of hers is why they think all BW are crazy with no morals. Did she really need to get naked in public in front of children? And I consider myself a bohemian type who can take a lot. but I hate false fake eccentrism. What was she trying to prove? I was so disgusted by her nonsense.

LOL One of my friends even went so far to say that since Erikah has always been super skinny that now that she had all those kids and got some "booty" she wanted to show it off to the Black men out there. So she used this whack video to try to make it seem like she was being deep when in reality she wanted to show her body to the BC to know she has some Booty. B/C how else could she do that without coming off like a video "hoochie"? That would go against her so called "morals". LOL. Now that may be far fetched but at this point the crap that BW do to get BM's attention, I wouldn't be surprised or put it past her. But then you mentioned she went into wanting to have sex with all the rappers, so now I am not so sure that the above idea is far fetched. You feel me?

Oh and regarding the preacher paying her measly $500 fine? par for the course these days with these "religious Black male preachers". i am sure some BW in his church could have used that $500 for some food or to help with her rent.

I definitely agree with Neecy.Black men are not going to stop dating interracially. Interracial relationships are increasing for black men and black women. I think Newsweek did some research that showed that over 10% of black men are with non black women. That doesn't even include the couples that are not married. In Britain, it's around 50% for black men. You can even go to different message boards online and see increasing numbers of black men brag about being with non black women.

In some ways, black women like Jill Scott uplift black men with non black women. It makes some of the non black women feel more arrogant towards black women. Some black men laugh themselves because they are not going to stop dating interracially. Some of them even flaunt their relationships in the presence of black women, because they think it makes black women jealous and angry.

About the history thing, many black women say they can't date white men because of the rapes and abuse that took place. Guess what, when America fought wars in Asia during World War 2, Korea and Vietnam, there was a lot of abuse and rapes that took place between white men and Asian women. That hasn't stopped them from establishing relationships with white men. The same thing happened to the Indian women. Yet some of them also have no problems marrying white men.

My point is, is that yes the abuse and rapes took place. Black women today should not look at all white men as rapists. People should not use history to stop interacting with other people. Different groups of people have been abused and mistreated throughout human history. This is a human problem, not a racial problem. Black women should never let history stop them from being with someone because of their race. Many black men also have sexually exploited black women. Today, many black men still abuse and rape black women in the so called "black community".

Don't forget to add Lauryn Hill and India.Arie to this nutty neo-soulette list too. LOL These two also have some of these beliefs they spout, but they are usually a bit more discreet than EB or JS.

It's hard to believe that Jill would berate people at her concerts...imagine if Bruce Springsteen did that? LOL How stupid and ungracious is it to hassle paying customers w/ your bigotry?

What these "Waiting to Exhale" types don't get is that their behavior is socially unacceptable w/ almost any sane people and a turn off for men of all races. BM don't buy it either, nor should they. Not only will "Lassie" NOT come home, you'll scare away the other ones too.

It's odd that these male identified types understand so little about men. That always surprises me. It's disturbing that they seem so clueless about how the basic man functions. How many women would ask a man "why don't you want a woman that looks like your mother"? Yes because that's exactly what they want to think about when they're being intimate...their mother. Yikes.

How many women would ask a man "why don't you want a woman that looks like your mother"? Yes because that's exactly what they want to think about when they're being intimate...their mother. Yikes.

How many non BW even question whether the men in their racial group (who obviously share their complexion, hair texture, facial features, etc...) will reject them outright for sharing those same racial characteristics?

The answer is ZERO of course. Non BM are not self-hating and racist against the women of their group even when they do marry IR to black, asian, and other non white women. They (unlike BM) don't speak with hatred and ridicule towards women who share their racial characteristics. The women who metaphorically speaking have given birth to them.

Because WM, AM and others are NOT damaged like BM.

THAT is what these Neo-Soul mammy's don't want to accept. That fact that most BM are damaged beyond repair.

These deluded nothing but a "brotha" types SEE that other non BM DO in essence love their mothers (and thus where they came from) for the simple fact that they don't discriminate and hate women who resemble their mothers (meaning women in general who share their racial features).

So... in reality there is no subtle incestuous undertones (although it is an ignorant non productive statement meant to shame BM into normality) in the comment "why don't you wan't a woman who looks like your mother". What these deluded BW really mean is... why unlike other non BM do you hate, reject, and abandon women who share your mothers complexion, black features, and hair-texture. The reason why BM subconsciously (and these days openly) hate BW and their mothers is because they see a reflection of THEMSELVES in BW and this is what they actually hate. The reminder that THEY'RE black and as men on a group level have failed miserably on the global stage.

When these self-hating BM are with non BW they can FANTASIZE that they are on the SAME powerful and independent level as WM and other non BM.LOL

A group of men deluding themselves like this that are fed, clothed, educated, hospitalized, incarcerated, etc... by WM is laughable.LOL

BM can dream and delude themselves and live in a fantasy world in their own minds with non BW. BUT with a black women the FACT that they are black, and descended from the black race (which has been a failure almost globally DUE to the weakness and misogyny of it's men) hits them in the face DAILY.

And this causes frustration and rage with them.

Which is why abuse of women and children is so rampant in the "bc". Weak and cowardly BM taking out their rage and disappointment with being black on innocent BW and children.

It's also what explains the abnormally high black male on black male murder rate that continues to grow in America and the world. Check out the evening news. Local and world. They are trying (and succeeding) in killing their OWN image which they hate.

Most BM don't want to be reminded of themselves (and their failures) and resent reminders.

What these mammy's don't realize is BM "leaving home" has nothing to do with them personally. It's about BM trying to escape themselves (and the failures associated with the black race due to damaged BM) and nothing more.

These BW need to be encouraging MORE BM out the door and would do so IF they accepted the fact that most are damaged to the core.

If these deluded "sister soldier" type BW would accept the reality that most BM are absolutely worthless to BW, and that it has nothing to do with them - or anything they've done or failed to do - they would be FREE to open their hearts to HEALTHY, LOVING relationships leading to marriage with NON damaged actual men. Non colorist and non racist WM and others who have retained their masculinity.

It's hard to believe that Jill would berate people at her concerts...imagine if Bruce Springsteen did that? LOL How stupid and ungracious is it to hassle paying customers w/ your bigotry?

Yes that's exactly what I was thinking too. What if bm/ww or whatever couples are the only people buying Jill Scott's music or they buy it more than bw do? Then where would she be? On that 'Where Are They Now?' show that was on VH1 many years ago or on some silly reality TV show possibly! LOL

Bless you Anon@ 1:47P You are on point. Black men hate anything that reminds them of themselves. Black males are an epic fail on a global scale. AND Surprise everyone knows this except the mammy mules. Something else I know from 50 + years of observation. Black males want to be white men. But not the white men of today. Black men long to be the white man at his most powerful. Black men want to be the white male slave owner. Look at how black males treat women and children in general. Look at the systems black men set up. The black church is an excellent example. Look at the religion black men flock to (Islam), look at the suggestions now in 2010 from black men suggesting a return to polygamy!!! Black males are the most ineffective males on this planet. Our only sin is our continuing alignment with that which hates us. Black males have yet to learn that they will never attain manhood through a white woman's vagina.

The writing has been on the wall for a very long time and maybe BW need to be honest with themselves. In one of the psalm, it says do not put your trust in princes, do not put your trust in Kings, but put your trust in God.

Black men have always like white women, since 77BC in Pompei, there was a house, known as the House of Marriage, where African men, married Italian women.

Black men remind me of Samson, still running after Philistine women, they are crazy about them. Even though Jim Crow and what happens, they still were crazy about them lusting after them.

If you take white women out of the equation, black men will marry women who don't resemble them. In Guyana, South America, despite the racial problems, between Afro-Guyanese and Indo-Guyana, the highest amount of inter-racial marriages is between male Afro-Guyanese and female Indo-Guyanese, the numbers are growing like wild fire. There had a case of a lot of Brazilian women moving to Guyanese, many men left their wives and children for the Brazilian women. Look at the rap videos, who are the women, Ms Latina, Ms Asian, Ms South America, not us!

We black women have to understand how things are, the world is an oyster and we make the world to how we want it. Death and Life is in our mouths and if we say, no-one but the black men, many will end up very lonely, because you will have what you say, and when you have what you say, you don't like the outcome, then foolish churches are telling you, you have been chosen by God, not to get married, that is an absolutely lie. Marriage was sanitified by God. Every woman can get married if they want to, but some are not interested in marriage and many others make bad choices of men.

Unfortunately many of us live in communities, where they need the black women to look after them, that is why we are told look after black men. We go to churches who speak about waiting on God for a man and yet don't understand the waiting on God is standing on the word of God, not sitting on your home waiting for a husband to knock on your door, during your 'Waiting period', you lose weight, if you need to, fix up your finances, take your supplements to make sure you are healthy, drop your silly friends, start to think and act like a wife. Sow into ministries, which specifically deal with marriage, finances and getting out of debt, change the type of clothes you were, your makeup, get your nails and hair done, so you look elegant, if you read Esther and Ruth, Abigail, look at the preparations they did to get their husbands, basically work on you. Drop Auntie, Mum, Dad, Sister Odeal and others, who tell you, that you are a sell out. When you are saving your money, don't help out your broke brother, cousin, uncle or any of your male cousins and if possible move away from them, if Abraham did not move from his father's house, it would have blessing of not Abraham is mine.

As individual, many black men are decent and hard working and look after their families, as a group, they suffer from Samson sickness, "I want a Philisthine woman". And we cannot worry about them, we have to bless them and let thenm go, and believe and thank God that they are wonderful men, who will love us, and cherish us, believe that we are fearfully and wonderfully made and we are beautiuful and well favoured. We will attract Kings and Princes.

As for Jill Scott, she is not doing anyone favours, she needs to concentrate on her own life and just because bm may be rich and have a nice car and married to non-black women, doesn't mean they have wonderful marriages or relationships. Tiger Woods, Ashley Cole, Reggie Bush, and the one who left his Asian wife after 11 years of marriage, two sons and she is 8 months pregnant with twins, for a 23 year old 'hot' blonde, these men have dirty, disguisting characters, would you want then for your husbands, I think not!

anon @1:47...you're wrong. Plenty of women of "other races" worry about such race based rejection and WW worry about age based rejection. IOW, women of all races worry about rejection of some sort. This is NOT merely a Black thing and to make it so is yet again missing the cue.

Black men (or any others for that matter) have an NO OBLIGATION to want women who share their physical traits. When BW get this, they'll be alot happier, IMHO.

OK anon can you really say that this line of argument is working out well? You're still not accepting that men "hear" these arguments differently than women mean them....recall that men are visual creatures.

Some of y'all need to really ask yourselves, are you REALLY open to dating/marrying out OR seeking revenge on BM? Honestly, all this focus on BM and their failings makes me wonder.

They're going on and doing what they want...they're not thinking about you (or me)....and I'm doing the same. It's not a reactionary thing either...I just dig non BM and non American men. How come the talk is rarely about THEM?

"anon @1:47...you're wrong. Plenty of women of "other races" worry about such race based rejection and WW worry about age based rejection."

Then name these other raced women. And ask yourself if these other non BW have a 70% single rate and 70% OOW birthrate.

"IOW, women of all races worry about rejection of some sort. This is NOT merely a Black thing and to make it so is yet again missing the cue."

Of course all women worry about rejection but name me ONE non black group who has the same concerns - and to the same degree - as BW. It would be eye opening to hear of such a group

"Black men (or any others for that matter) have an NO OBLIGATION to want women who share their physical traits. When BW get this, they'll be alot happier, IMHO."

And who said they are? Not I. Just like BW ALSO under no obligation to want men who share their physical traits. It's the two-faced hypocritical and anti-BW "bc" who makes it socially acceptable for BM to publicly make and live by such statements at the same time DAMNING, ostracizing (and sometimes killing) BW who make and live by these same statements. The problem is BW listening to and caring about a "community" that doesn't give a damn about them.

Most BW are still limiting their options in 2010 because of fear of what some non-existent "bc" will think about them if the date and marry out. When BM couldn't give two damns.

This is PITIFUL, suicidal and insane and BW will continue to suffer as long as they continue caring what hypocritical BM and mammy's think.

"OK anon can you really say that this line of argument is working out well? You're still not accepting that men "hear" these arguments differently than women mean them....recall that men are visual creatures."

Please reread my comment regarding the stupidity of BW making these statements.

I clearly stated in my comment...

(although it is an ignorant non productive statement meant to shame BM into normality)

You are correct. It is TOTALLY unproductive for BW to continue this tired and played out line. BW shouldn't be saying diddly to the majority of negroes out there. About anything including who they date and marry.

BW need to start focusing their feelings and emotions on those who are RETURNING the love back. To do anything else is a totally bad look.

The only reason why the psychology behind BM's behavior is even discussed on these various blogs is because most BW are STILL under the misguided impression that the behavior is related to them when it's NOT. This spell needs to be broken and it can only be done by telling the truth about what's really motivating the behavior.

That was my intention anyway.

I do agree with you that the focus ultimately needs to STAY on marriage minded men (who outnumber BM) who ARE interested in BW.

The amount of hatred, mockery, and anger being thrown at Erykah, Jill, & other Afrocentric sisters is really frightening to me.

First of all, let me say that I fully, 100% support Black women expanding their options and persuing romantic relationships with non-Black men. But I also understand that some Black women only want Black men. Do I approve of that? No I do not. Black men have shown by their own thoughts and actions that they do not love Black women, nor hold Black women in high regard. In my humble opinion, Black men are not worthy of Black women for those very reasons. However, that is just my personal opinion. For whatever reason, a lot of Black women are more loyal to Black men than Black men are loyal to them. That bothers me, saddens me, and angers me, but I am not going to hate on the sisters who feel that way. They do not deserve to be hated on for that. It is not Black women's fault that Black men do not love her, it is Black men's fault. There is nothing wrong with Black women loving the men of their group, there is something wrong with Black men for not loving the women of their group.

I read Jill's article, and I fail to see what she said that was so terrible. Look, chances are that Black women who are open to dating non-Black will ignore her, while sisters who want nothing but Black men will aympathize and agree with her. Is that really so horrible?

Neecy, your comments disturbe me the most. Your anger at Jill and Erica worries me. If a Black male artist said the same if he saw BF/NON-BM couples at his concert, would you attack him the same? Joan, would you call it "Bigotry" if an afrocentric Black male artist did the same to those couples? Also Joan, other races of women do not face the same rejection from their men that Black women do from theirs. Let's be realistic here please.

Valerie & last anon, I agree with much of what you guys say, except about the parts where you say Black men hate who they are. I think it is Black women and girls who they hate. Black men are in love with themselves. Their narcissm is truly at an unbelievable level these days.

Some of these anti-Erica/Jill/Lauren/India comments remind me of the way Black women as a whole are torn apart, scorned, hated, mocked etc every day on and off the internet by Black men, non-Black women, and other races/groups.

Afrocentric sisters are not the problem.

The fact that Black men hate Black women is the problem.

Also Joan, do you realize that these Black men you defend & think have no obligation whatsoever to Black women, do think that you and all Black women have an obligation to them even though they date non-Black?

Neecy, would you say a Black man who objects to sisters dating out is throwing a "Hissy fit"?

And Neecy, while I agree that the Black women in that Texas church could use some extra cash, the fact that that preacher is willing to pay Erica's fine is way overdue. It is about time a Black man repaid a Black woman for something.

"They're going on and doing what they want...they're not thinking about you (or me)....and I'm doing the same. It's not a reactionary thing either...I just dig non BM and non American men. How come the talk is rarely about THEM?"

DITTO, but I think this is because Im not really all that attracted to BM.

Anonymous 1:35, you are on the ball here. I agree with the message of this blog but some of these anti-"afrocentric" BW comments are absolutely appalling.

Whether you like their music/philosophy or not (as if they ALL have the same opinion anyway-India Arie is really good friends with Pink, that should tell you that looks are deceiving) those women have done WAY MORE for positive Black female imagery in the last 15 years then any other entity I can think of. They are some of the first black female artists to veer away from Eurocentric beauty standards *with confidence*, and guess what? They get sh*t from Black men for it too. It is not all black and white. Do they really need Black women throwing them under the bus? They have pushed for the acceptance of natural features and a wider variety of black female beauty. I believe they are owed credit for that.

It is possible to have afrocentric features (natural hair/dark skin) and afrocentric opinions and still date successfully IR. A few of those women are my friends and family members. They are not hypocritical Gates types either.

I do not agree with Jill's "soul burning" (lmao @ the thought). It's ridiculous. But I find the biggest problem is that her opinion is overly represented in the media as an indication of how most BW thing, not that it exists. BW have historically shown far more acceptance of others than most other groups. And I believe this bitter black women rhetoric is overplayed not only to stroke the BM ego, but to take attention away from the fact that whites are still hyper-exclusionary and in focusing on "hateful black women", it takes attention away from their specific brand of anti-IR. That brand that is practiced but no longer openly stated. It is NORMAL in this society for people to want to be with people of the same race. I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it is a norm. YES, I've heard all too often Jewish women ask their men if their GFs were "nice Jewish girls". That cultural pressure exists outside of the black community for every group EXCEPT Asian females. Black/White/Latina women are all more harshly judged for dating IR. It's how you respond to it that matters.

Again, I agree that Black women should expand their horizons. But I am troubled by the vitriol spewed at other BW who choose to live as they do. How are you really any different from BM who do/say the same nasty things? Badu has never complained about her life nor said anyone needs to be like her.

And BTW, her naked video (gasp! shock! nudity!) was inspired by a video done by a white woman and a WHITE MAN. But Im sure the complainers don't have a damn thing to say about that.

No man is an island unto himself. I can understand the need to loosen this black community ideology, but if you completely abandon or even attack every Black woman who is not like you without seeking understanding, you are no better than those you criticize.

Valerie & last anon, I agree with much of what you guys say, except about the parts where you say Black men hate who they are. I think it is Black women and girls who they hate. Black men are in love with themselves. Their narcissim is truly at an unbelievable level these days.

.......................

I respectfully disagree. If black men loved themselves so much, they would want to recreate their image in their progeny. And assure that their children who are apart of them succeeded and prospered in this harsh world. But black males routinely reject and abandon their children - black AND mulatto, female AND male - every day across this planet. They reject their flesh and blood at higher rates then all other races of men.

This is not a sign of self-love. The rate at which black males kills themselves with violence, drug abuse, and suicide (which is growing) is also not a sign of self-love.

To the Anon who stuck up for the neo-soul singers, I know that I have nothing against these singers' preferences in men but what I DO hold against them is when they impose themselves on other women by acting like they are THE mouthpiece and representative of all black women with all of that 'we, we' we' talk? 'We...we'? This ain't Paris, well I'm not in Paris anyway! LOL

Jill Scott's on CNN talking a bout a 'wince'? Look that wince is only JILL'S wince so she needs to stop saying 'Oui, oui all feel this way madame!' And somebody in the comments said that Erykah Badu was in a college beauty pageant telling BW 'to stick by the brothers'? How about you be quiet and get what man you want and stop telling the rest of us what we feel and what we should do?

I also don't understand the BW friends/close relatives/work colleagues etc. of other BW who really want these other BW to date a black guy 'instead' of dating the non BM she met, when no one's saying or forcing on them that the BW friends/close relatives/work colleagues etc. should date a WM, AM, HM etc. it's just that this other BW that they're related to or know wants to date or marry one. So what?

You stick to the black love to the day you die if you want, just take your imposition somewhere else, and this goes for the famous rich singers especially.

@1:35 I don't think it's disturbing. What I find disturbing is undying loyalty to a a person or a group who show they do not want or love you. Now that's disturbing. Being that no one here is bashing bm just calling out bm, bw, bc on their crap. Yes there is nothing wrong with bw being attracted to bm, but many bw who are, are usually trying to guilt you, make you feel you are somehow not really black etc. for not going for the status quo. Even the so called bc. Like has been stated before not every BW/IR blog will be for every BW-IR oriented person. And also you have to take into account how many bw are waking up to the facts. We women talk things out. That's what we do.

And Neecy, while I agree that the Black women in that Texas church could use some extra cash, the fact that that preacher is willing to pay Erica's fine is way overdue. It is about time a Black man repaid a Black woman for something.

How is he helping, by using black women's money? Because we all know that's mostly where the money comes from. You think he'd help a black woman in trouble who does not go with the status quo?

The focus of this thread was to be on the current crop of men and how they think. To the Anons who think we are picking on the afrocentric sisters, we are not, we are merely stating that they sometimes throw blind allegiance to all black men when not all black men are worthy of this support. In a rush to be "african, black etc..." they forget that they are women also and are worthy of certain reciprocity which not all black men are capable or caring enough today to give.As far as that preacher giving money to erykah, it is not his money to give and just because some white woman showed her ass first doesn't mean erykah had to show hers. We are judged by different standards and bw should know that by now. Plus had her act not been so sexual I am sure that black preacher would have ignored it say if she threw oil on an oil exec etc...

Here's a thought. How did this all start? Just think about that for a minute. Black women have been indoctrinated from girlhood for generations, decades, etc to stick by Black men through thick and thin, while Black men from boyhood have been told in that same period that it's perfectly okay for them to want and lust after non-Black women, and that Black women are worthless slaves here to do their bidding, and for nothing else.

So are we suprised that a good number, perhaps a majority of Black women have this "Down for the brothers" attitude?

At the same time, we have Halle, Paula (Patton), Diana, Gabby, Karen, and a good number of other prominent/famous Black women openly dating/marrying non-Black men and otherwise showing young Black girls that it is okay for sisters to expand their horizons this way. That was not so even 10 years ago. So while Erykah, Jill, etc are saying/doing the opposite, young Black girls tired of the status quo now have a counter message of hope and change. So it appears that there is a battle for the hearts and minds of young Black girls. And if enough young Black girls start following in the footsteps of the Halles & Dianas when they reach dating age, then maybe they will show the older diehard sisters that it's time for a change. You know what they say, "Out of the mouths of babes".

Exactly. Jill Scott or whoever else Black female singer aren't exempt from criticism if they are also fuelling stereotypes in some way.

I don't give a damn if their hair is natural, if they burn incense all day long.....people will get called out.***********************************

I think this is where the annoyance towards Jill Scott and Cohorts is coming from. These women sing/preach about loving yourself, valuing yourself, etc. However, when push comes to shove are they actually living that way in their personal lives?

Many Black women talk a good game, but I’ve always said that if you want to know how a woman truly feels about herself deep down inside, then look at her romantic relationships. Look at who she choices to get involved with and/or what she decides to tolerate in the relationship and for how long. Then you’ll have your answer.

Like I said before, I’m not into the neo-soul genre so I don’t really follow Jill, Erika, Indie, etc. When I read the current May issue and she talked about getting involved with a man who had 3 kids from 3 different women, I basically had to skim the rest of the story to the very familiar and foregone conclusion. She ends up as the 4th baby mama and the relationship of course ends.

Jill actually tastefully narratives the story, She tries to add deep meaning and spirituality to it, by making it a story of personal triumph and so on….. However, at the end of the day it personally boils down to her not truly valuing herself and making better choices.

Erykah Badu had 3 kids from 3 different men. The only difference btw her and the typical “Welfare Queen” is that she has been lucky enough in her career that she can provide for her kids if the baby daddies decide not to help her.

Lauryn Hill same thing, she chose to be an additional baby mama to a man who had another family or just spread his seed wherever. Instead of leaving, she stayed until the situation drove her over the edge.

All these women are considered positive role models for young black girls and women. However, the example they’re setting leaves a lot to be desired.

If black men loved themselves so much, they would want to recreate their image in their progeny. And assure that their children who are apart of them succeeded and prospered in this harsh world. But black males routinely reject and abandon their children - black AND mulatto, female AND male - every day across this planet. They reject their flesh and blood at higher rates then all other races of men.***********************************

My friend has been a social worker for a number of years now. She says that the number of mixed/biracial kids that come into the social service system has been rapidly increasing.

When I asked her the breakdown on the race/ethnicity of the fathers, she estimated that it was about 70% BM, 15% HM, 10% WM, 5% Others

NijaG you nailed it. You are correct. I never analyzed their personal lives before and yet all three of those artists who are held up as positive role models for BW/BG have all made horrible choices in men - that I wouldn't wish on a dog. I fear Lauren Hill may have an Esmin Green moment in her future somewhere.

anon 1:35..acknowledging a FACT is not "defending" anyone. You need to look up the definition if you thought that's where I'm coming from. I'm simply stating a truth. You have no vote over other people's private lives and they have no vote over yours. Do ya thing and let others do theirs. I don't act in reactionary ways or carry around a bunch of useless anger. I value my health and sanity far too much to let other folk keep me riled up over what I can't change.

anon 10:30...do you know any non BW and how they feel about their issues? Why is it so hard to believe that they too feel race based rejection? They too have stereotypes that they hate. I don't dismiss other folks' experiences because they are not my own.

To all...As for these neo soul sistah/singers and them allegedly providing a "positive" image for BW...how many of them are single mothers going from man-to-man or living up w/ someone else's hubby? Normally I don't judge other people's personal lives, but I find the assertion that they are "positive" images of BW laughable. How are they different, besides, money/fame/talent/pribilege, than the usual BW stereotypes? Natural hair doesn't make them so different, ya know! ;) I guess seeing this a "positive" is in the eye of the beholder. Not in my world tho.

Since when does one have to like/support/understand/defend what someone says/does simply because you share the same race and/or gender? What of shared ethics and morals? I'm not against Afrocentric women, per se, but I don't pretend to find their PoV compelling. Besides, how do you think they'd react to you and your choices? Before you defend them and their choices so quickly, consider that they ain't too hip on Black folks in IRs, so....after all, Jill lectures on this very thing at her concerts. Reciprocity doesn't just apply to men, IMHO. BC PC isn't my bag...I support what I believe in, not what's dictated/guilt-tripped/etc...by the usual means.

NaijaG...no, they aren't. If you're gonna talk da talk, walk da walk. There's a good chance that Jill's man left her for a non BW..hence her "soul burn" and "wince".

anon 7:32...exactly. Ideas and the people behind them (esp prominent people using a mass platform) MUST be examined. If they aren't or can't be, maybe their ideas have little merit. All these privileged BW singers, deigning to speak on the collective BW behalf, are where they are because they have talent/drive/luck, but that doesn't exempt them from their ideas being looked at w/ some skepticism. Celebs are given way too much leeway as it is.

NaijaG...no, they aren't. If you're gonna talk da talk, walk da walk. There's a good chance that Jill's man left her for a non BW..hence her "soul burn" and "wince".********************************

@ joanshearer

Which comment are you referring to? Is it the Black Power SSS?

I use that term more sarcastically. It's actually a play on the BP movement of the 70's and the fact that Jill Scott even used the term "Sister Solders" in the current May Essence issue.

All these neo-soul singers like Jill, Erika, etc really seem to think that they have a deep and special magical understanding of what it means to be black women (specifically African American). They honestly and truly deluded themselves into believing that a spiritually and psychically damaged black man can be only healed with the special love of a black woman.

"I don't act in reactionary ways or carry around a bunch of useless anger. I value my health and sanity far too much to let other folk keep me riled up over what I can't change."

As you shouldn't. But you should examine your need to analyze the emotions of others who disagree with your stance. Everyone (including you) is simply expressing their personal opinions here in the comments section. It's really not that heavy or shouldn't be.

I also value my health and sanity and agree no one commenting at any of these blogs should get worked up over that which is out of their control.

People need to control their own lives which obvious. But there's a difference between having and honest discussion and being "riled up".

To all the ANON'S who are "sickened" by my thoughts on BW like Jill Scott and Erikah badu and the rest of that ILK.

Sorry but I calls it like i see it. I could care less how you feel about the way I perceive Jill Scott and her tired ramblings about Bm and NOn BW. I am sick of it and sick of her. She has been spouting off this nonsense since over 10 years. enough is a darn nough already. Every BW is NOT my sister. I am so tired of these BW making complete collective fools of BW b/c their whole existence and self worth is placed in a group of males who don't give a bleepity bleep about them.

And save the "oh its natural for Black women to love and want to be loyal to their brothers even though they aren't to us". There IS NOTHING NATURAL about a bunch of groveling women BEGGING and PLEADING for a collective group of men to love and like them. PERIOD. All BW like Jill, India, Erikah and the rest do is brag and boast about "black love" and whine and wince all day about Bm and non BW and yet NOTHING HAS changed on their behalf. Instead of going on CNN foaming at the mouth about the same tired overplayed topic maybe Jill and her ILK can go sit in a psychiatrists chair and ask them for help b/c this BM groveling is border-lining INSANITY IMO. The definition of INSANITY is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. HELLO! Going to public forums to express your undying obsessive (because that is what its border lining) love for a group of men who are literally DESTROYING women and children who look like them is INSANE - especially when NOTHING is changing.

Jill and her ilk can walk around in African Dashikis and garb and crown full of natural hair - AND??? I'm supposed to automatically support them just b/c they walk around with natural hair? Their actions speak louder then their hair and whatever else folks like to place so much emphasis on. There is NOTHING positive about being a baby's momma and contributing to negative statistic affecting BLACK CHILDREN. There is nothing positive about wincing (or loudly proclaiming you wince) when you see a COUPLE who has NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU walking by or in a relationship b/c you are OBSESSED with a group of men who are not that obsessed with you. I can go on.

Once again. Jill Scott needs to sit down and be quiet and get some self esteem. Her ramblings about IR's between Bm and NON BW are not NEW, INTRIGUING, ENLIGHTENING. Nor are her and the slew of other BW crying about BM and NON BW's relationships causing BM to stop, drop and roll back into the BC and into the arms of all the BW waiting for that day to come.

I can't remember who made the comment regarding BW like Jill and such having NO CLUE about men, how men generally think etc is soo spot on!

If BW were savvy they would realize that sitting around all day crying, begging, having pity parties and yelling from the mountain tops how much you looove a man or group of men, just makes you look DESPERATE! Men do not like or want desperate women except to use them for their resources and bodies (like many Bm are doing to BW).

If a man doesn't want you, you surely aren’t going to "win him over" by making articles, movies, books, CNN reports about how much you love him and are hurt when he runs off with women of other races and how much you want to protect him b/c of what happened during slavery and how NATURAL it is for you to want to be with him and HOW HURT you feel blah blah blah. NO man wants a groveling begging woman.

men like challenges. They want to feel like the woman they are pursuing is sort of off limits to him, b/c when he does eventually GET HER it’s a badge of honor. He had to work for it. How much do you value anything that comes easy to you?? Not much. But when you work hard for something you really really want, you tend to value it more. the sistas who are soooo stuck on getting a BM and/or guilting and shaming BM into "coming home" need a long lesson in MEN 101.

To sum it up available, easy to come by begging women are not at the top of ANY man's list. There are also a lot of Bm who are completely turned off by this obsessive behavior BW have towards them. And the other ones are using it to their advantage by using BW. They have made it clear, they see no EXCLUSIVE intimate ties to BW. BW need to stop looking like a bunch of desperate BEGGARS b/c that is currently what Jill and her posse of "we love our brothers" sistas look like. IT IS WHAT IT IS……

I'm certain Jill Scott's inanity is getting worldwide coverage. CNN loves to take this garbage international. The worst of the worst about black people, esp. women, always gets covered in the media.

It's like the purpose is to make sure we cannot escape negative anti-bw propaganda. So her nonsense sprouting message getting a wide reception at this time is not an accident.

JS seems unaware that her bleeting, along with the other BM beggars, to the world is: "I am unlovable." No other group of women are carrying on this way. It's not womanly or sensible. And it's certainly not feminine.

I agree with all of you who say that she, and her cohorts, need to cut that "we" business off. They are speaking for themselves.

Foremost, they need sit down somewhere with a good therapist and work out their issues privately. I'm tired of these "too much information" sharing celebrities.

Neecy said it right, "Men like challenges."

Chasing, pleading and begging after those guys will get them nowhere.

Frankly, I don't get the hangup over American BM with some of these women. What's the big fuss over? Other men are nowhere close to the same degree of dysfunctional social, economic, mental, and emotional problems as many, if not most, American BM.

IT IS ALSO UN-WOMANLY AND UNDEMOCRATIC TO NOT LET SOMEONE SPEAK ABOUT AND TOWARDS THEIR OWN OPINIONS, EXPERIENCES AND BELIEFS!

That's all that was being said in Jill Scott and companies defense.

I am NOW someone who takes very few "leaders" at face-value, you must look at the person's life; how they ACtUALLY live it, their interactions with others, before deeming them worth following. It's happening all around us now, and we are even re-evaluating our leaders of the past, like MLK jr.

YES, he was Good for the cause, but he didn't respect BW, and now we even have a word for it, BLACK MALE PRIVILEGE. BUT this came with time

SO...

YES, you may not agree with her opinion, BUT they are hers to vocalize and she IS a celeb, so they will ask her about it. She CAN say "WE" because there are ALOT of BW who share her opinion. So reading attacks on her and the other Neo-Soul singers positive images of BW is too much, because if we're really 'keeping real' then I guess you haven't noticed that without these selected few, the ones to rep us would only be Beyonce and Rihanna.

Don't take their words out of the context of their lives and opinions and lay that over your life's experience--that's white culture and media's game: you know she isn't talking to you or about you, so let it go.

I think to Kaneisha's about stages of Interracial dating, and though I envision myself a stage 5: attracted to "The Person," and not their race or gender, BUT it took me evolving, getting hurt, learn and choosing for myself that path I wanted to take towards happiness to get there. I'm not going to kick someone down in a one up game, to validate getting to where I am now.

AND THAT IS WHAT ''BLACK WOMAN'' ARE DOING NOW!

EVOLVING, RE-DEFINING, WAKING UP, AND LOOKING IN THE MIRROR---BUT THAT IS AN "INDIVIDUAL" STRUGGLE. the world and it's ways in the west are different; we (BW who have evolved to this pt.) are 'a community,' and JIll and the BW who believe those things are they're own.

Just weeks ago, you weren't complaining about Karyn (Don't bring home a White Boy) being on CNN, but I'm SURE the argument on their boards were.."We--who is this we, making us look desperate," but that was their opinion.

men like challenges. They want to feel like the woman they are pursuing is sort of off limits to him, b/c when he does eventually GET HER it’s a badge of honor. He had to work for it. How much do you value anything that comes easy to you?? Not much. But when you work hard for something you really really want, you tend to value it more. the sistas who are soooo stuck on getting a BM and/or guilting and shaming BM into "coming home" need a long lesson in MEN 101.

Celebrities represent themselves and their own issues. They do not speak for groups of anyone. There is no "we." Celebrities aren't leaders. They are morons with access to a microphone and amplifier.

Unfortunately, the media uses them to be spokespeople for certain groups, especially black women, if they are acting extremely stupid and unfeminine.

I don't know who, or what, Neo-Soul is, but wearing a dashiki or an Afro doesn't make these folks more blacker, soulful, deeper, or intellectual than anyone else. Just because some of them almost speak well doesn't hide their stupidity.

JS needs to spend more time at weight watchers instead of watching black men with white women.

As for Karen, she's an educated woman, marketing a well written book. JS is airing her mental, self-esteem, and bigoted issues.

Unfortunately, the media uses them to be spokespeople for certain groups, especially black women, if they are acting extremely stupid and unfeminine.

Key point Golden, the mainstream is always looking for the worst actors among black people (particularly black women), to reinforce and maintain a negative perception (social perception causes resources to flow towards or away from a particular subject it is now the strongest and covert tool in the arsenal of mainstream which can no longer practice out and out racism)

Bw saying, 'Let me alone let me say what i want to say,' need to take this factor into consideration.

My thoughts on Jill Scotts comments were that if anything, I feel that she is at step one on the path to Black Women's new reality. getting back to the actually topic of the blog entry , this new crop of Black Men today are making one point very clear: the game is different now.

WE ARE NO LONGER ONE COMMUNITY, if we truly ever were one, because now all that was done in the dark, is coming to light. My own bitter pill to swallow and winch is that all my life I've been that life and the world, and our community worked one way- and that was not the case at all.

All the while I was being told, that "THEY" would mistreat me, hurt me, abuse me, lie to me and use me for their own gain, I gave my faith and fidelity to community, church and ideal, and it was my own 'people' who were the ones who the perpetrated MOST of mine and my families mistreatment and misfortune. ..IT IS AN EARTH SHATTERING THING TO REALIZE THAT THOSE WHO SHOULD BE THE "FIRST" TO LOVE AND PROTECT YOU--ARE THE FIRST TO HURT AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF YOU!

And now, seemingly unlike every other race of women, we must re-define, and re-configure, our image, our agenda, our self-esteem, our points of view and culture references for ourselves and on our own.

We as black woman are 'strong,' because despite what we go through; we ARE getting where we want to go because of our capability to do so. (I say, backwards and in heels-but that's my own shoe fetish speaking, ;P )

The sadness is that we can't not 'count on' the similarity of skin coloring to mean that our men--or other bw--will not me-line our hard fought progression towards finally being understood and excepted as beautiful, intelligent, and capable women with a perma-tan.

YES, you may not agree with her opinion, BUT they are hers to vocalize and she IS a celeb, so they will ask her about it. She CAN say "WE" because there are ALOT of BW who share her opinion.

Georgia, no, no, no. Jill Scott has a profile in the media becasue she is a celeb but it looks more aprpropriate and democratic for her to say 'I' whenever she wants to air out her opinions on CNN etc. and not say 'we'. Because she didn't ask or consult with all of 'we' and of course, how could she?

So it should make sense to Jill Scott automatically to say 'I' when she has opinions to address. I didn't say 'censor Jill'. I'm not allowed to! but she needs to use more 'I's because this ain't Paris!

We don't share any anatomy and nor do we have to, we each have our own!

Don't take their words out of the context of their lives and opinions and lay that over your life's experience--that's white culture and media's game: you know she isn't talking to you or about you, so let it go.

That's exactly the problem right there. Black women are far too ready to 'let things go' and brush them off when it comes to black women's images, protection, safety, health and quality of life. And how has THAT been working out so far? It hasn't been what I would call any good anyway.

No, no. All these presumptions from certain public loudmouths has just gone too, too far now. No, no.

"just because some white woman showed her ass first doesn't mean erykah had to show hers. We are judged by different standards and bw should know that by now."

Cosign. The whole other women do x, experience x - needs to stop.

Exactly Oshun. Asian/Asian American women do so well image-wise and with the men most probably because they mostly don't show themselves up in public such as fighting and being too loud on Jerry Springer, Maury etc. unlike the WW, BW, and some HW! And it's about time that I act in a way that works for me, and not follow everybody else's bad moves.

I think this is where the annoyance towards Jill Scott and Cohorts is coming from. These women sing/preach about loving yourself, valuing yourself, etc. However, when push comes to shove are they actually living that way in their personal lives?

I remember Lauryn Hill commenting about black girls (I was in HS)having sex in one of her songs and children etc. and then later we all find out she had sex and had a baby and was not married herself. She also had a lot of to say about unmarried bw having babies. So many of us were disappointed and let down. I think that's what happened to young listeners. They saw she wasn't practicing what she was preaching. Now I know she like me and everyone else in this world ain't perfect. The problem is when these singers make themselves out to be better than everyone else. Some of them do this almost to a point of arrogance.

"I am sick and tired of these bm-identified bw being the mouthpiece of ALL bw."

First of all, I would like t say that I am THRILLED to see such progressive and real dialogue encouraged on a site for BW.

On the quote: I feel that the celebrity BS being spewed is written by a publicist and they are advised to make these statements in order to stay "in" and popular. I dont think that any of the comments are well thought out or responsible and of course $$$ is the objective. I also see this and the misogynistic rap/hiphop as forms of black-on-black crime.

BM's collective attitude of instant gratification and self-agrandizement, BM-obsessed BW celebrity reinforcemet of the staus quo etc really all boil down to a disease of a civilisation. All humans are vulnerable to this disease (but not plants and animals). This disease will ultimately lead to our destruction. That disease is GREED.

I have always dated outside of my race and have been unaccepted by BW because of my choices. I've been told "you think you are better", "who do you think you are" "you're not black" etc by BW my whole life. These posts have made me realise that they were angry at me for feeling deserving of reciprocated love, respect and happiness and being willing to get it no matter where I could find it.I think that BW owe it to themselves and their children (who are WATCHING and LEARNING)to realise that they are deserving of happiness, love and respect. Every NonBM that I have ever dated LOVED everything about the exalted BW. I was never demeaned by them because of my race. If anything I was revered. If you represent a negative stereotype, that's what you will attract into your life. If you have self-respect and self-love, you wil attract that into your life too.

The egoic BM is not as new as you think. I clearly remember having a discussion at an upscale wine bar with 4 wealthy BM professionals in there 50s and 60s (about 7 years ago!). They had their kids and houses and wives at home (yes BW). BUT they were hitting on me and discussing their many conquests with each other. When I asked one of them why they cheated on their wives without hesitation, he replied, that "a good black man is hard to find, so I should share myself" When the wine continued to flow and someone asked me what qualities I liked in a man I replied "Fidelity" then excused myself and went to another table;)

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About Me, About the Blog

Hi I am Halima AndersonI am an author with a passion for the relationship 'well-being' of black women, hence the writing of the book, "Supposing I wanted to Date a White Guy...? It is important for me to specify that this blog is for women who are new to interracial dating or who still have struggles with the idea and want to see if it is a thing for them. This category of black women will be my primary focus!If you are already in an IR or are open to the idea, I wish you good luck!

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BW constitute anything from 60-80% of the makeup of black churches yet they seem to be the ones who have their welfare and needs subordinated to every other agenda, particularly in the issue of marriage and upholding the black family. If your blog is one which critically examins bw's role and place in the church please email me your links.