In Response to Re: offensive coordinator : Try doing that as the weather gets cold and see how that works, especially playing in Foxboro. And what was the result in 2007? I try to think about 2002, 2004 and 2005 when thinking how to right the ship, now if this were fantasy football...?Posted by wozzy

In Response to offensive coordinator : Thank you for pointing out the real problem with the PAT's. I've said this before and I'm saying it again, THE SINGLE BIGGEST LOSS THE PAT'S HAVE SUFFERED IN BILL'S TENURE WAS THE LOSS OF CHARLIE WEISS. It's something we've never quite recovered from. We were in the red zone multiple times against the Jets and instead of powering it in, we tried to finesse it. Charlie would have run some counter and off tackle and pounded it in, only when we couldnt squeeze it in with the first couple of downs would he run a short play action to a tight end. The formations were the same in the 2nd half that they were in the first, two split out to the left and Moss in motion on the right. I dont see any halftime adjustments? We averaged 4.2 yards rushing as a team but Maroney and Taylor, our horses, averaged nearly 6 yards per carry. We were running effectively. But it seems as if the top brass didnt learn a lesson from 2007 that a passing team isnt nearly as effective in a tight match as a team that can run the ball. 2007 was a fantasy stat geek's dream, but it's not how you win in the post season or against divisional opponents who look at every game against us as a super bowl. I miss the days of smash mouth football , power running and an attacking defense that was constantly fresh because they didnt spend the entire game out on the field. Charlie Weiss had a simple philosophy, get first downs not touch downs, be good in third down situations and always get 6 when you get in the red zone. I think Bill needs a real offensive play caller; he is the defensive guru and he needs a polar opposite on the other side of the ball. Let's hope Notre Dame crashes and burns...Posted by wozzy

Bottom line is they're too predictable on offense (70/30 pass/run) and aren't moving the ball down the field efficiently and both the coaches and players are too blame. IMO it's a matter of better execution and more balance (pass/run ratio) on offense..........

Below is a capsule of their offense through 2 games.

Run:Attempts- 26th in the league (43 attempts)Yds per game- 26th in the leagueYds per carry- 22nd in the league

Pass:Attempts- 1st in the league (100 attempts)Yds per attempt- 26th in the league

yes, they need to start going down field more. but is he really the OC?Posted by kansaspatriot

They're not going downfield because they don't have the pass protection for those types of plays to develop. Brady's life is in danger every time he drops back.Why they haven't been using the screen pass which has always been a patriot specialty, it a complete mystery to me. Faulk and maroney are perfect receivers for screens, the one thing maroney does well is running after the catch.

When you lose so many coordinators within a few years, hiring from within gets really, really thin, and this is what has happened to the Patriots. If we were to lose two more coordinators after this year, the equipment and strength trainers would be promoted to the positions. This has to stop. BB needs to go out and get guru coordinators who have the NFL experience to do it right. The game plans have been awful, the defense is playing reactive football, and the offense is totally predictable. This team should have learned after the Giants beat them in the Super Bowl (the biggest travesty ever!!) that draws and screens are needed to protect Brady and slow down overly aggressive defenses. If we would have adjusted at halftime and incorporated this strategy, we would have won that Super Bowl and have gone down as the best team ever!!!!!

McDaniels blew the SB but not adjusting to the run, so to say he is missed is ridiculous. He had Brady as his QB. Not hard to call games with Brady and Moss?Welker. Weis was the best, no doubt. What I want is more balance and less predictablity. All these buffoons claiming the O Line, which was unreal 2 years ago and very good last year, is somehow the problme, will all pipe down and realize it's more about balance in the offense. If Manning threw 50 times per game, he'd be carried off on a stretcher by now. Mankins is a beast, Neal is a very good run blocker and Koppen is easily on the best Centers around. Run the ball.Posted by russgriswold

I completely agree with everything you just said. Why can't we learn the lesson that we need to establish a run repoir. Teams cannot gameplan against our offense if they know we can run the ball all game. It is near impossible to stop Brady with his weapons if you have to respect the run! O-line is good game plan is bad!

I do not think it is the offensive coordinator. I believe it is the mix of run versus pass, TE blocking/decoy, and Maroney's inexperience at running; the latter being the most important.

See if this works for any of you. In 2007, the Pats used a two tight-end set and three receivers (Gaffney or Stallworth) and the field was open. I think what hurt in that dominating season, in which Maroney was not hurt was that we did not play the "smash" mouth football that we played in the years of Corey Dillion and Antoine Smith (I think that his name). Even when Dillon and Maroney shared touches, they each had over 700 yards. I think that year we actually hurt ourselves by not bringing Corey back and or another veteran runner like we now have with Taylor.

Hear is my observation; first the Patriots are committed to controlling the ball and have given the mix between and pass a balanced look in the first half of the both games; we only went to the pass exclusive because we were behind in both games going into the fourth quarter. If you look closely Maroney either pops a nice run or he is taken down with no gain or a loss, there is no "in-between" with him. With Taylor, Dillion, and experienced runners they have a "delayed" sense to wait for the play to develop and then they see more opportunity to create something. Maroney only see the play called and never waits for anything to develop. I believe this comes with experience. This make the running game so predictable and easier to stop. I saw Taylor consistently grind 4-6 yards versus 6 and then nothing; this keeps the LB's thinking and actually provides Brady with more options when taylor is in the game.

We should not give up on Maroney, but hopefully this being his fourth season we would see some of this experience come through. Watching the Dolphins last night showed me the magic of why Ronnie Brown and Ricky Williams are special, they actually wait for plays to develop and take advantage of the gaps therein.

Maroney actually has Marshall Falk like raw ability, but he has to learn to operate in more than one speed.

McDaniels blew the SB but not adjusting to the run, so to say he is missed is ridiculous. He had Brady as his QB. Not hard to call games with Brady and Moss?Welker. Weis was the best, no doubt. What I want is more balance and less predictablity. All these buffoons claiming the O Line, which was unreal 2 years ago and very good last year, is somehow the problme, will all pipe down and realize it's more about balance in the offense. If Manning threw 50 times per game, he'd be carried off on a stretcher by now. Mankins is a beast, Neal is a very good run blocker and Koppen is easily on the best Centers around. Run the ball.Posted by russgriswold

Nope..it is ridiculous to say he is not missed because he "blew the Super Bowl".With McDaniels they had balance in the offense. Just keep your eye on the Broncos.

McDaniels got way too much credit with the best QB in the league under center. Weis was the best because he not only used all the personnel, it's the TIMING in which he used it. McDaniels was very predictable. O'Brien, so far, is as predictable if not more so than he was. I can't believe it, but it's true so far. BB needs to immediately take the reins and make sure there is more of a balance. You could hear BB hint at this in the post game quotes. He said something to the effect of 70 passes or 70 runs, whatever works. Guess what? The 50 pass routine DOES NOT WORK at will like it did in 2007. I am not saying never attack a team again like that, but it makes NO SENSE to make yourself one dimensional when you have Brady and his surrounding personnel. It's ridiculous. No one was hurt except for Welker and Edelman played a fine poor man's version of that on Sunday. WHy is Sammy Morris not used more? Where is Ellis? Both of those guys hit the holes well.Posted by russgriswold

Who was the QB for Weis ? Oh yeah..Brady. So Mc D gets no credit from you (wow you are hard to please) because he had Brady, but Weis had Brady and it was all coaching. You don't make any sense. It's your mentality that Brady doesn't need coaching that got the Pats in trouble in the first place. Brady needs a good OC just like any other QB. This year has not proved that to you ? What about 140 yards per game rushing last year don't you understand ?Mcdaniels was the OC for that balanced attack. Mc D is better than what we have now, which is the point. He is missed. Leaving the Pats left them in worse shape with no adequate replacement.

In Response to Re: offensive coordinator : Try doing what as the weather gets cold ?Posted by rocher

IF you've never dropped into a three point stance, jamming your hand into 6 inches of sleet, ice and mud, waiting an eternity for the QB to snap the ball in a noreaster than I can't possibly describe it for you. Have you ever tried catching a ball running as fast as you can across an icy, snow covered field with your cleats packed full of snow and ice, did you notice how the cold air expanded the pigskin making it hard as a rock and so dry that it's slippery. Not ideal passing conditions...

Thats all it takes to knock a high powered passing attack off the top in a conference final, one day of bad weather and the team that can't run the ball or defend it loses. 2007 was fun for me to watch, but only in proving to the stat-philes who thought Brady couldnt do it better than Payaton Manning and other stat hounds that he could in fact do it, and better... but I was always concerned about the change in philosophy and our ability to finish a season at #1.

In Response to Re: offensive coordinator : IF you've never dropped into a three point stance, jamming your hand into 6 inches of sleet, ice and mud, waiting an eternity for the QB to snap the ball in a noreaster than I can't possibly describe it for you. Have you ever tried catching a ball running as fast as you can across an icy, snow covered field with your cleats packed full of snow and ice, did you notice how the cold air expanded the pigskin making it hard as a rock and so dry that it's slippery. Not ideal passing conditions... Thats all it takes to knock a high powered passing attack off the top in a conference final, one day of bad weather and the team that can't run the ball or defend it loses. 2007 was fun for me to watch, but only in proving to the stat-philes who thought Brady couldnt do it better than Payaton Manning and other stat hounds that he could in fact do it, and better... but I was always concerned about the change in philosophy and our ability to finish a season at #1.Posted by wozzy

Uhh..if you check the stats on the games at the end of that year 2007, you are proven completely wrong.Despite your little description of what it's like to play cold weather football, you are off base.The Patriots starting in Dec (when it gets cold for you)

wow..pretty good rushing yards to me in almost every game in the dec/jan.Pretty good for a "passing" team.Next time look to the stats before you try and make an issue out of something that is not there.Again..the pats with McDaniels were a very good rushing team..even in 2007.Balanced offense.

Does Brady have the authority to audible? Asked 3 times without an answer.Posted by underdogg

Under, the only people that would know that are BB, Brady and O'Brien. BB doesn't tell his basement GM's and Coordinators anything, we aren't even allowed to talk to the media. All we can do is complain, praise and type about the Patriots on Bos dot com. No one know what BB is thnking haven't you seen him in a press confrence? And agian go to Indy sites please I am sick of talking/hearing about the colts, they would never be mentioned if you werent here to type Dungy, Manning, Polian and Colts into our Patriots Discussions. Thank You

IMO as I see it there are 5 factors 1. Lack of an effective game plan. 2. Questionable originality of calling O-Plays by QB/O C. too predictable. 3. Quarterbacks inability to get ball down field and into the end zone. Demeanor appears to be preoccupied. 4. O-Line's ability to run block effectively on a continual basis. 5. Stupid needless penalties and big plays. The 0-line IMO did an effective job pass blocking considering there where always more blitzer's than personnel to pick them up. Without corrections being made at once this season will be lost by the time the Pats return from England.Strange two weeks ago this board was alive with anticipation of a high powered offense and chastising of the defense. Two games and a total of 33 points allowed, not too shabby of such a poor defense.

In Response to Re: offensive coordinator : Charlie Weis would not return to the Patriots if he was fired by Notre Dame. He and Romeo Crennel were among the lowest paid coordinators in the NFL. Before he was hired by N.D., his agent was trying to find another job for Charlie in the NFL.Posted by JimKe

What did Charlie and Romeo do before they came to the Patriots? And what have they done since they left? Money doesn't make you a better coach. BB, Romeo and Charlie had a great run while together. Since they split up BB is the only one that has had consistent team. And he is now on his 3rd OC and wish he was on his 3rd DC.

Not a huge ND fan but has Charlie brought them back to the promise land? No! He is supposedly recruiting talent that hasn't shown up with a win against a top program. Charlies only BCS apperence was with Willinghams players, and the other 2 bowl games were case the Alumni Support.

Romeo and Charlie were great when here and if they were still here I think the Pats would have had 19-0 and probably 5 Super Bowl Victories but they wenn't to "Greener Pastures"

In Response to Re: offensive coordinator : Uhh..if you check the stats on the games at the end of that year 2007, you are proven completely wrong. Despite your little description of what it's like to play cold weather football, you are off base. Posted by rocher

There is a profound and palpable difference between a power running game and a high powered passing game.

One passes to sneak in a run now and again, the other crams it down your throat with run, run, run, play action TD. A passing attack spreads the field out opening up draw plays for your back, what we did in 07 and last week when we lost. A power running game smacks you in the mouth, wears you down and controls the time of possession.

One can score very quickly and put up big numbers in a passing attack, while a running game holds the ball from an opponents high powered offense keeping them watching from the sidelines as their defense gets worn out, like our old, veteran defense did at the end of 2007 with our offense looking on.

A passing attack has the lineman and blockers on the backs of their heels all day, a running game has them attacking the defenders downhill. Ask an offensive lineman which he prefers?

I have no doubt that in the regular season a team can win with this passing first offense. I agree that the offense was awesome in 2007, but you also cant deny they scored less and less as the season wore on, that Brady was taking more direct shots from defenders and our defense was spending more and more time having to go right back into the game after another 3 and out and wearing down.

The almost perfect season could have happened, all Josh Mac had to do was go back to power running the ball and converting on the short downs, creating inventive short/screen passes in concert with a heavy dose of running. Allow Dante Scarnecchia to dust off some of those old running plays and blocking schemes allowing his lineman to punch those other guys in the mouth instead of taking shot after shot as Tom drops back in yet another 7 step drop. In 2007 the passing game fizzled at the end... yes the very end, but the end nevertheless.

The goal is to win the superbowl, not win the fantasy football pool. All I can remember is a huge underdog Patriot team whupping the high powered passing offense of the Rams to usher in a new age of football for PAT's fans in their first super bowl victory. It didnt matter how many points we won by that season, just that we won.

This team was couple of passes and catches away from winning 40-10, and you want to blame the OC. As I have stated numerous times I love the passion, but passion w/o common sense is a dangerous combination.

Bump... If the need for a balanced offensive attack or that our D is pretty good is still in question after todays game..? 39 rushes, 42 passes Now if only they would run it in down in the red zone instead of insisting on passing we would be really dangerous.Posted by wozzy

With the run game re-established look for Brady to connect on more of these passes as guys continue to get better looks! Balance was great today and we showed we can run the ball! Soon we will bring back the play-action pass and crush defenses again.

This team was couple of passes and catches away from winning 40-10, and you want to blame the OC. As I have stated numerous times I love the passion, but passion w/o common sense is a dangerous combination.Posted by DBAZ22

If we were to count the opportunities in the red zone the last two games where we came away with three instead of six you would find a common thread, each time we tried to pass it in instead of run it in. The first rushing touchdown today was a beautiful thing, it was as easy as can be...

So by your rationale "almost" winning is as good as winning outright..? They dont count "almost" touchdowns.