During my first viewing I was really angry and disturbed by that ! After the second time I wouldn't take that seriously through. Let's look at the context:

Luke: I failed you, Ben. I'm sorry.Kylo: I'm sure you are! The Resistance is dead. The war is over. And when I kill you, I will have killed the last Jedi.Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.The Rebellion is reborn today.The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi.Kylo: I'll destroy her, and you, and all of it.Luke: No. Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with. Just like your father.

My personal take is, that he is angry and hurt - at Luke, the Resistance the whole Galaxy. It seems like a despite reaction... and maybe even a twisted take on "if I can't have her, then nobody should! Particularly not the Resistance and Jedi- his archenemies. And don't forget from his point of view she betrayed him on the Supremacy... going for the Lightsaber instead of his hand. At the end when he is kneeling and looking up at her in their forcebond he seems to beg for forgiveness. He sure doesn't look like "Wait till I hunt you down b****"

Kylo's in tantrum mode, nothing he's saying is a logical declaration. We all know he won't destroy Rey. I think there would be more reason to worry if his last scene in TLJ was being angry and declaring his intent to destroy her. But we all know that, instead, it's him kneeling in a dark room with light shining down onto him through the windows after he just looked up at Rey with the most ridiculous sad puppy face possible through their powerful and rather romantic mental connection that lives on after Snoke is long gone.

During my first viewing I was really angry and disturbed by that ! After the second time I wouldn't take that seriously through. Let's look at the context:

Luke: I failed you, Ben. I'm sorry.Kylo: I'm sure you are! The Resistance is dead. The war is over. And when I kill you, I will have killed the last Jedi.Luke: Amazing. Every word of what you just said was wrong.The Rebellion is reborn today.The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi.Kylo: I'll destroy her, and you, and all of it.Luke: No. Strike me down in anger and I'll always be with. Just like your father.

My personal take is, that he is angry and hurt - at Luke, the Resistance the whole Galaxy. It seems like a despite reaction... and maybe even a twisted take on "if I can't have her, then nobody should! Particularly not the Resistance and Jedi- his archenemies. And don't forget from his point of view she betrayed him on the Supremacy... going for the Lightsaber instead of his hand. At the end when he is kneeling and looking up at her in their forcebond he seems to beg for forgiveness. He sure doesn't look like "Wait till I hunt you down b****"

I shared your sentiments upon first viewing. It wasn't until the second or third that I appreciated that moment. I think it's interesting that when Luke says "I will not be the last jedi," Kylo's thoughts immediately go to Rey. He's already promised his uncle in anger that he'd wipe out the jedi so he's going to double down in that heated moment. It's funny because Luke's got to be like, "Nope. I saw you guys holding hands."

An interesting, and kind of scary thing I heard on a Star Wars music podcast is that in the moments leading up to the "I'll destroy her," line, you can hear a phrase of the Order 66 theme. Spooky...

My take on this now is that Kylo is in this cycle of destroying everything he hates--everything that has hurt him and caused him pain. It's the same thing Finn is doing flying into the cannon before Rose stops him, but Kylo's been at this for years. "Let the past die. Kill it. If you have to."

He kills his father because he needs him no matter how much that relationship hurt him--he feels abandoned by both parents who loved their causes more than him (from his point of view). When Rey asks why he killed his father, I initially found his answer completely unsatisfying, but now I think it's actually perfect. "Your parents threw you away like garbage. But you can't stop needing them."

Before he kills Han he confesses he just wants to be free of this pain. And the way he's been addressing all of his pain is to destroy everything that has hurt him, as though once it's all destroyed, he will be free. Some better world can rise from the ashes, one defined by him, one that cannot hurt him.

Rey reaches out to him and he's falling in love with her. But then after they join forces and realize something of what they could be together, she rejects his offer to join him. He begs her to accept it. He allows himself to be way more vulnerable to her than to anyone in the trilogy so far, and she "turns on him" becoming his enemy again.

His immediate reaction is a return to form. Destroy it all. Burn it all down. He is even more sure of this now. And he'll destroy her too because now she is someone who has burned him.

But then Luke arrives and tells him that if he strikes him down in anger, Luke will always be with him, just like his father. Kylo killed his father and it split him in two. It didn't lessen the pain--it worsened it. Luke is telling him that destroying what he hates is not the way.

At the end Kylo is hopeful for a moment in the Force connection with Rey. Is it possible she didn't really reject him completely? Is it possible she will come back? But when she shuts the door, her expression hard, he winces in pain. Her rejection hurts anew. But then he looks back to Han's dice in his palm. They fade away.

He's left with a choice, a chance. And it's all about his father, the man whose heart Snoke said he had too much of, the man who allowed Kylo to kill him trying to save him. Maybe he can't understand right now that his parents loved him. But he can decide not to try to destroy Rey because she hurt him (from his perspective). He can try to do something else, because he has to know Luke is right. Han torments him even more now that Kylo has killed him.

In both films someone tells him it's not too late. It's never too late to end a destructive cycle. If his attempts to destroy it all only bring him more pain, surely he can see there is no point in continuing.

I'm reminded of Maul in Star Wars Rebels. As soon as he thought he'd gained control of the Sith temple, he declared that now he would destroy all his enemies. It's the same thing--he'll destroy everyone who has ever hurt him, everyone he hates. Villains in Star Wars are people who can't change or learn from their mistakes--or rather they remain villains as long as that is the case.

So, the question is, can Kylo Ren learn from his mistakes? He listened to Han about Snoke. Can he learn this last lesson from Luke? (And Luke was still teaching him, correcting him on where he is wrong.)

The other thing is that if Ben returns it will always be Han who saved him. It will be that killing Han saved him because that would be how he learned that destroying what hurts you only makes you hurt more.

@Acritiqua wrote:My take on this now is that Kylo is in this cycle of destroying everything he hates--everything that has hurt him and caused him pain. It's the same thing Finn is doing flying into the cannon before Rose stops him, but Kylo's been at this for years. "Let the past die. Kill it. If you have to."

He kills his father because he needs him no matter how much that relationship hurt him--he feels abandoned by both parents who loved their causes more than him (from his point of view). When Rey asks why he killed his father, I initially found his answer completely unsatisfying, but now I think it's actually perfect. "Your parents threw you away like garbage. But you can't stop needing them."

Before he kills Han he confesses he just wants to be free of this pain. And the way he's been addressing all of his pain is to destroy everything that has hurt him, as though once it's all destroyed, he will be free. Some better world can rise from the ashes, one defined by him, one that cannot hurt him.

Rey reaches out to him and he's falling in love with her. But then after they join forces and realize something of what they could be together, she rejects his offer to join him. He begs her to accept it. He allows himself to be way more vulnerable to her than to anyone in the trilogy so far, and she "turns on him" becoming his enemy again.

His immediate reaction is a return to form. Destroy it all. Burn it all down. He is even more sure of this now. And he'll destroy her too because now she is someone who has burned him.

But then Luke arrives and tells him that if he strikes him down in anger, Luke will always be with him, just like his father. Kylo killed his father and it split him in two. It didn't lessen the pain--it worsened it. Luke is telling him that destroying what he hates is not the way.

At the end Kylo is hopeful for a moment in the Force connection with Rey. Is it possible she didn't really reject him completely? Is it possible she will come back? But when she shuts the door, her expression hard, he winces in pain. Her rejection hurts anew. But then he looks back to Han's dice in his palm. They fade away.

He's left with a choice, a chance. And it's all about his father, the man whose heart Snoke said he had too much of, the man who allowed Kylo to kill him trying to save him. Maybe he can't understand right now that his parents loved him. But he can decide not to try to destroy Rey because she hurt him (from his perspective). He can try to do something else, because he has to know Luke is right. Han torments him even more now that Kylo has killed him.

In both films someone tells him it's not too late. It's never too late to end a destructive cycle. If his attempts to destroy it all only bring him more pain, surely he can see there is no point in continuing.

I'm reminded of Maul in Star Wars Rebels. As soon as he thought he'd gained control of the Sith temple, he declared that now he would destroy all his enemies. It's the same thing--he'll destroy everyone who has ever hurt him, everyone he hates. Villains in Star Wars are people who can't change or learn from their mistakes--or rather they remain villains as long as that is the case.

So, the question is, can Kylo Ren learn from his mistakes? He listened to Han about Snoke. Can he learn this last lesson from Luke? (And Luke was still teaching him, correcting him on where he is wrong.)

The other thing is that if Ben returns it will always be Han who saved him. It will be that killing Han saved him because that would be how he learned that destroying what hurts you only makes you hurt more.

There’s been a discussion on Tumblr about Kylo’s expression when Rey lands on the Supremacy. Some people think he should be happy to see her after their Force hand touching session, but he looks more concerned that she’s suddenly appeared. I think this post by “psy-kylo-gy” (if you’re here take credit!) hits the nail on the head, because even I was surprised at how quickly and strongly Rey’s desire to “rescue” Ben Solo came on. Things do feel a bit rushed at this point and it explains why she failed.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:There’s been a discussion on Tumblr about Kylo’s expression when Rey lands on the Supremacy. Some people think he should be happy to see her after their Force hand touching session, but he looks more concerned that she’s suddenly appeared. I think this post by “psy-kylo-gy” (if you’re here take credit!) hits the nail on the head, because even I was surprised at how quickly and strongly Rey’s desire to “rescue” Ben Solo came on. Things do feel a bit rushed at this point and it explains why she failed.

I wholeheartedly agree with all of it, but still think that the OP is a bit too harsh on Rey. While I do agree it was naive and childish, but also having in mind what happened before the moment she decided to go to Ben - she was once again rejected by somebody in her life (i.e. Luke), so maybe that's the main reason for her desperate and impulsive decision to believe it was going to be an easy job with Ben.

I always think of Rian, when being asked what was the song that reminded him of Rey and Kylo - it was: Broken inside. And it was clearly meant to be a common thing for both of them.

Ahh, well I think it’s what’s to be expected of her character. Her intentions weren’t horrible, her plan was. Rey is a bit naive and childish in her outlook. Unfortunately, things aren’t as simple with Kylo as she thinks and her bravery backfires. How she acts is understandable, but Kylo not being happy to see her is also understandable.

Kylo does work hard to get them both out of the situation alive. Rey is just there with no plan other than Kylo will turn. Kylo has to figure out how to overcome Snoke. I think that's why he closes his eyes and begins meditating. He needs the Force to help him. Somehow there is a way out of this sticky spot, he just needs to find it. I agree the vision of the future reinforces to him that it's definitely possible.

@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

@Saracene wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

From what I remember, I think he said "I saw something too, etc" then he gives his interpretation. And then he kind of abruptly says I saw something else? Your parents? I think they were two separate thoughts.

I feel that Rian just left it vague on purpose, don't think anyone knows right now. They just create something blurry and then hand it off to the next person to deal with lawls, so the ball is now in JJ's court. Here we are trying to figure it out and the big people probably don't even know lol.

@Saracene wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

Yeah, I get that’s why she decided to go, but she tells Luke, “If I go to him, Ben Solo will turn.” She thought she was just going to show up and he’d leave Snoke and the dark side? I’d say that’s... overly optimistic. Also, did she see them together and happy? I just heard “You will not bow before Snoke. You’ll turn.” Many assume this is a vision of the throne room scene, just with each of their own interpretations. I don’t know how Kylo seeing Rey’s parents fits in... Wish Rian would answer

@Saracene wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

From what I remember, I think he said "I saw something too, etc" then he gives his interpretation. And then he kind of abruptly says I saw something else? Your parents? I think they were two separate thoughts.

I feel that Rian just left it vague on purpose, don't think anyone knows right now. They just create something blurry and then hand it off to the next person to deal with lawls, so the ball is now in JJ's court. Here we are trying to figure it out and the big people probably don't even know lol.

I saw TLJ again yesterday, and I agree that it came off like two separate thoughts. There's the "I saw something, too...you'll be the one to turn, stand by my side," etc... And then as they're exiting the elevator, he quickly adds, "(And) I know who your parents are." (I think I heard an "And" at the beginning of the statement, but I'm not super-confident about it.)

In any case, he has some idea what happened with her parents before he and Rey even touch hands, as during the shirtless scene, when she's ripping him a new one about Han, he makes the comment that her parents threw her away like garbage. So I think he at least saw something back in the interrogation scene.

@ISeeAnIsland - It's probably one of those details which we *may* get more intel about from the novel. But how many times on here has the topic come up that he'd be the person to figure it out via his very specialized set of Force Powers and the way they keep showing that *something* is going on with her about her memories of her parents. Would love to know if they ever came up with a back story about how that influenced his decision to take her back with him to SKB instead of BB-8. Because he always seems way more interested in who she is and getting to know her versus the I am the evil bad guy pew pew pew stuff.

He actually says, “You’ll stand with me. Rey. I saw who your parents are.”WTF did he see that tells him they were “nobodies” who sold her off for drinking money and are dead in a pauper’s grave in the Jakku desert? And when? He makes it sound like it’s from the same vision as when they touched hands.

Someone on Twitter said that if a girl were looking for father figures in your dad and your uncle (“looking for them everywhere, in Han Solo, and now Skywalker.”) that should turn you off to that girl forever, lol.

He actually says, “You’ll stand with me. Rey. I saw who your parents are.”WTF did he see that tells him they were “nobodies” who sold her off for drinking money and are dead in a pauper’s grave in the Jakku desert? And when? He makes it sound like it’s from the same vision as when they touched hands.

Someone on Twitter said that if a girl were looking for father figures in your dad and your uncle (“looking for them everywhere, in Han Solo, and now Skywalker.”) that should turn you off to that girl forever, lol.

@Saracene wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

Yeah, I get that’s why she decided to go, but she tells Luke, “If I go to him, Ben Solo will turn.” She thought she was just going to show up and he’d leave Snoke and the dark side? I’d say that’s... overly optimistic. Also, did she see them together and happy? I just heard “You will not bow before Snoke. You’ll turn.” Many assume this is a vision of the throne room scene, just with each of their own interpretations. I don’t know how Kylo seeing Rey’s parents fits in... Wish Rian would answer

Do you think maybe they saw multiple visions? Similar to Reys forceback in TFA, except we as the audience weren't looped in this time? That's one way they could explain how Kylo knows about her parents and why Rey says he will not bow before Snoke. They saw quick flashes of the past and the future, but no real context.

@Saracene wrote:@Cowgirlsamurai I'm pretty certain that the reason Rey got so incredibly invested in saving Ben so fast, and the reason she was so certain that *she* can save him, was that her vision was about her future as well as his, i.e. future where they're together and happy. Except that she wasn't going to talk about her personal life with Luke, so she covered it up with "we need him to win".

This vision thing is one of the most important things that happened to Rey in TLJ, so it's very interesting that we never got told what it was except in the vaguest of terms, while we did get told that Kylo in turn saw the truth about Rey's parents (it kinda puzzles me that the notion of Rey and Kylo seeing the same vision has become a widely accepted thing when Kylo's dialogue clearly explains what he saw - Rey's parents). I'm curious how the novelization will tackle it, or if anyone involved in the movie will get asked about it directly.

Yeah, I get that’s why she decided to go, but she tells Luke, “If I go to him, Ben Solo will turn.” She thought she was just going to show up and he’d leave Snoke and the dark side? I’d say that’s... overly optimistic. Also, did she see them together and happy? I just heard “You will not bow before Snoke. You’ll turn.” Many assume this is a vision of the throne room scene, just with each of their own interpretations. I don’t know how Kylo seeing Rey’s parents fits in... Wish Rian would answer

Do you think maybe they saw multiple visions? Similar to Reys forceback in TFA, except we as the audience weren't looped in this time? That's one way they could explain how Kylo knows about her parents and why Rey says he will not bow before Snoke. They saw quick flashes of the past and the future, but no real context.

LOL acid trip. The thing is too they could have had separate visions of each other. As in Rey only saw visions of Ben's past and future, but at least one of those visions happened to include her. Speaking of vagueness does she ever say what she sees that makes her so certain he'll turn, other than he will not bow before Snoke? Ben said he saw them standing together and then gets that little smirk and twinkle in his eye lol. I can only imagine what he saw and how he's interpreting it

Rian left it very open for JJ to come in an interprete what they saw anyway he wants. Did they have visions of what happened in TLJ or further out? Did they see something that indicated they would be involved romantically? A kiss, a wedding, children?

Do you think maybe they saw multiple visions? Similar to Reys forceback in TFA, except we as the audience weren't looped in this time? That's one way they could explain how Kylo knows about her parents and why Rey says he will not bow before Snoke. They saw quick flashes of the past and the future, but no real context.

Based on the camera work during the hand scene, I'm pretty sure of this. The camera goes back and forth between their faces, lingering on them for a while, and it looks like they both experience a spectrum of emotions, both ending with something hopeful.

LOL acid trip. The thing is too they could have had separate visions of each other. As in Rey only saw visions of Ben's past and future, but at least one of those visions happened to include her. Speaking of vagueness does she ever say what she sees that makes her so certain he'll turn, other than he will not bow before Snoke? Ben said he saw them standing together and then gets that little smirk and twinkle in his eye lol. I can only imagine what he saw and how he's interpreting it

Rian left it very open for JJ to come in an interprete what they saw anyway he wants. Did they have visions of what happened in TLJ or further out? Did they see something that indicated they would be involved romantically? A kiss, a wedding, children?

He knew something (maybe not the whole story) of her parents before the hand-touching scene...otherwise, why have the line about her parents throwing her away in the shirtless scene? Maybe the hand-touching vision fleshed out the details, but he knew about her parents throwing her away from the interrogation.

Having just watched the movie again yesterday, I really think he saw her standing by his side in the vision he saw. He's not just leaping to that in a "I turned when my parents abandoned me, so you'll turn, too" sense.

And Rey absolutely saw a future/belonging with him--she wasn't going to tell Luke that, though. Heck, she hid the Bond from Luke entirely until he walked in on them in the hut. I'm sure we'll get more details on their visions in IX.

HI all, I've transcribed the elevator scene. here's the dialogue (not beta'd but fairly confident). R: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart. Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it. K (whispering): I saw something too. Because of what I saw I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are. -elevator doors open- S-Well done my Good and faithful apprentice!! My faith in you is restored. Young Rey. Welcome.

I think we don't know exactly what they saw! The only specific thing mentioned is that Ben saw who her parents are. The rest of the dialogue is them sharing what they believe based on what they saw. Big difference I wasn't thinking they shared the vision.. but they did share the belief that based on each of their visions, they would be together on the same side. What they disagreed on was which side that would be