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[QUOTE=Angela;600041Plus, THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MAJOR POINT. What does the EU mean? If it doesn't mean that member states facing the first wave of a common emergency can get help from other member states, at least in terms of PPE, ventilators etc., if it's each country for itself, then screw the EU. Get out just like Britain did. It was the best thing Britain's done in a long time. All they want you for is to serve as markets.[/QUOTE]

I'm pro solidarity in the EU, for humanitarian reasons and also for the self intrest of the EU countries (one big market, is for exporteurs like the Dutch a big pro).

Nevertheless how fare does this solidarity reach? Legitimate question.

The Dutch (even many of the social democrats, yes Angela you read it well) government are strict followers of the lessons of the Chicago school of economics, reduce the public debt.....cut cut cut reduce reduce reduce this mantra has been consequent over times.....

The Italians were let's say it mildly not so consequent in this respect. You would say it in the NY way: they made it a mess ;)
And now is the Dutch government to blame to have taken Friedman c.s. too serious?

Let's be clear I'm not total into that 'calvinistic Scroodge' c.q. Friedman like politics.....but 'right wingers' have IMO no right to blame this kind of neo-liberal policy! ;)

Besides that everyone knows that a Italian EU exit is most of all tricky for the Italians.....(and honesty I would miss them in all aspects, but that's a personal opinion).

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.

and all over the world there are 2 capitalistic model, by what I can see you call them right wings

The one I call anarchocapitalism, great example of such is G Sorros, from Neo-liberians to GlobaloTraders amd money transfer, Friedman school
The one I call middle class capitalism, typical of EU great glory days, Fiscal policy Central bank, Keynes model,

The communistic theories of Marx have already been rejected,
Yet it is a good study for economists and law school,

The socialists had no model, only the dream and the social (name me public) help
They have turn to be 2 groups in Europe
The ones that make their flag after Toma Piketty's work
the ones who accept a kind of 'social war' against capitalism, or monetarians, police and state, etc.
the hardest of the last are the ones who comes in Greece and Italy to 'save illegal immigrants'

Lately comes a new party,
The Capitalo-Socialisto-Globalists,
Like our ex prime minister,
They support the idea of a Global Goverment,

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.

It's the actual discussion.
You and others did also a contribution in this respect.
And now I must keep my mound shut because of the crisis.....???
I keep it respectful for all members. And I'm not communicating in caps lock style or whatsoever. No ad hominem. So I keep it clear within our rules.
So I don't see a reason why I should not made a contribution.....

It's the actual discussion.
You and others did also a contribution in this respect.
And now I must keep my mound shut because of the crisis.....???
I keep it respectful for all members. And I'm not communicating in caps lock style or whatsoever. No ad hominem. So I keep it clear within our rules.
So I don't see a reason why I should not made a contribution.....

Or is this because you or others disagree with me?

The reporting is this,
11+1 ask for Corona bond, for their own reasons,
4 deny, for their own reasons
EU authorities think different, towards a 'Marshal plan',
That is the beauty of EU,
Discussion, and Democracy, pluralism of ideas and solutions, and respect to the Veto even of one.

Epidemiologist at the Clinic (Hospital in Barcelona): "If you want to win again, we will accept a new culture of epidemiology"

Anna Llupià argues that "stricter confinement is not needed" but "more selective", in reference to people with symptoms still down the street

The coronavirus pandemic will not be able to be buried in a month or a half. At least this is the certainty that Anna Llupià conveys when contemplating the future approach to the infection. She is an epidemiologist at Hospital Clínic and has been closely monitoring Covid-19's behavior in recent months. Now, as we are about to reach two weeks of official confinement by the state of alarm, Llupià points to the crucial step that in the near future will have to be taken "to get out of it." "We will have to start accepting a new culture of epidemic or self-isolation as a routine," he warns.

That will be the price of returning to a kind of everyday life, says Llupià. "If we want to go out and relate to a certain amount of normality, we should apply this culture. And that means that anyone who has a little neck pain, can detect softer stools or suffocates, he must consider that. it is a positive case to prevent and isolate yourself, "says the Preventive Medicine and Public Health specialist.

That is, the minimal detection of symptoms linked to SARS-CoV-2 should be an immediate reason for confinement to the affected person, but not exclusively. "His contacts, with whom he had been in connection with the previous days for less than two meters and for more than 15 minutes, must also be isolated for two weeks," he adds.

This proposal also goes in line with what it proposes when assessing the current confinement situation, regulated by Royal Decree. "Confinement alone doesn't work. In fact, you don't have to be stricter, or as much as you are now, but more selective. We could organize ourselves. But the obvious thing is that what's happening now can't happen. that you should not be able to go super, "says the specialist at the Clinic. According to the defense, knowledge about coronavirus has not changed in recent weeks. "At the medical level, we knew everything. We did contact studies and ICU forecasts." However, he states that "it has been very fast." "Surely, on a social level, the control measures of the spread of the virus have overtaken us. And now we need to develop new tools," he concludes.

It also hints at the thinking that has been installed in many people, saying that coronavirus does not affect young people without previous pathologies. "It's a virus that attacks the entire population. It's true that if you are young and you have the means, you will usually leave, but that doesn't mean there is no risk," he says.

Precautions in the supermarket
On the security measures that can be taken during confinement, Anna Llupià is committed to raising awareness of the movements that are made when leaving, for example, when making a purchase. "Gloves are hands that you cannot wash as well as you would. So if you touch an item with those gloves and then you scratch your face or mucous membranes, we have broken it already," he says.

Managing what to do with the food packaging we buy is also not easy. The epidemiologist in woman gives some advice. One of the proposals for everything we do not have to eat the same day and that are medium term forecasts is to quarantine it. "You keep it and do not touch it for a few days. The virus lasts for a few days," he says. If they are foods that we want to consume immediately, there are other options, such as being very careful when spilling the contents of the container on the plate or the cooking utensil where we pour it. to do with gloves. "You have to consider the surface of that can to be dirty," he warns. The alternative is to disinfect the package. "But you have to do this with high concentration bleach and it's more complicated."

"We are giving everything"
The culture of isolation and social estrangement was one of the two important legs in managing an epidemic, says Anna Llupià, because it has to do with controlling the spread of the virus. The other crucial aspect is the current health response to the Covid-19 crisis. Barcelona hospitals are looking for new useful spaces, and administrations are starting to enable out-of-medical spaces - such as hotels or sports centers - to treat infected people or to welcome workers. "We will take care of the sick with all available means, but it must be clear that they will not be enough. Basically, because there will be attendances in spaces that have nothing to do with regular care. Anyway, we are giving everything, "he claims.

He also acknowledges the lack of material and the endless efforts being made by the centers to try to have as much resources as possible. However, he warns that there will be situations that are still unknown as to how they will end. One of the possible aids in detecting who has coronavirus and increasing the traceability of the infection is the rapid testes. But it's not easy to buy insurance and find out its usefulness. The Spanish government today acknowledged that it purchased more than half a million faulty fast pots. Llupià assures that the quality of this kind of test, when available devices, will be checked "with validations".

Plz not Now,
After the end or stabilization of CoronaWar we will have plenty of time.

and all over the world there are 2 capitalistic model, by what I can see you call them right wings

The one I call anarchocapitalism, great example of such is G Sorros, from Neo-liberians to GlobaloTraders amd money transfer, Friedman school
The one I call middle class capitalism, typical of EU great glory days, Fiscal policy Central bank, Keynes model,

The communistic theories of Marx have already been rejected,
Yet it is a good study for economists and law school,

The socialists had no model, only the dream and the social (name me public) help
They have turn to be 2 groups in Europe
The ones that make their flag after Toma Piketty's work
the ones who accept a kind of 'social war' against capitalism, or monetarians, police and state, etc.
the hardest of the last are the ones who comes in Greece and Italy to 'save illegal immigrants'

Lately comes a new party,
The Capitalo-Socialisto-Globalists,
Like our ex prime minister,
They support the idea of a Global Goverment,

In the Netherlands the 'targeted lock down' is just extended to 28 april....and the schools are closed till 4 May....with overall a possibility of a prolonging of the measures.....so a 'house arrest' until begin May....a way to go.

The government is going to pay all the salary of the people that are working in company that has lost 20% or more of the sales volume.... in order to prevent an 'economic lock down'.

Trivial detail....due to corona crisis the Euro Song Festival is down the gutter......

For all the 'lock downers' here....the supposed to be Dutch contribution, the songtext reveals something more, a (personal) message, from me to everybody here ;)

You just can't help yourself, can you? Even in the midst of all of this, practically every post has a personal or national insult. You think because it's subtle it's ok?

You've been exhibiting this kind of behavior since you showed up here, even on genetics threads with Maciamo. It didn't start with the Covid 19 discussions.

For your information I've been against the EU for ten years or more; it has nothing to do with any emotional reaction to Covid 19.

Did you think we wouldn't get your ethnic stereotyping that Southern Europeans are being too emotional? Or you thought that was the only way to do it and stay technically within the rules of the forum about insulting other people or ethnic groups?

What if I posted a thread asking if it's true that European surveys show the Dutch are considered the least sympathetic,most obnoxious people in Europe? Would that pass muster? How about if I asked whether there are higher levels of Asperger's Disease in The Netherlands? How about that?

I tried to give you a second chance, but you just won't stop. You are on permanent ignore as far as I'm concerned. You will get no responses from me.

New Coronavirus in China

You just can't help yourself, can you? Even in the midst of all of this, practically every post has a personal or national insult. You think because it's subtle it's ok?

You've been exhibiting this kind of behavior since you showed up here, even on genetics threads with Maciamo. It didn't start with the Covid 19 discussions.

For your information I've been against the EU for ten years or more; it has nothing to do with any emotional reaction to Covid 19.

Did you think we wouldn't get your ethnic stereotyping that Southern Europeans are being too emotional? Or you thought that was the only way to do it and stay technically within the rules of the forum about insulting other people or ethnic groups?

What if I posted a thread asking if it's true that European surveys show the Dutch are considered the least sympathetic,most obnoxious people in Europe? Would that pass muster? How about if I asked whether there are higher levels of Asperger's Disease in The Netherlands? How about that?

I tried to give you a second chance, but you just won't stop. You are on permanent ignore as far as I'm concerned. You will get no responses from me.

If people are smart, they'll do the same thing.

We communicatie besides each other.

That mess thing is something about New York, you talk imo in a NY way, that's in our ears sometimes kind of rough....no problem with that. And if I listen well to Cuomo that is even part of the NY self awareness.

"Did you think we wouldn't get your ethnic stereotyping that Southern Europeans are being too emotional?"

That's something that I didn’t mention in a single contribution. So I don't know what you are meaning. Based on nothing.

What if I posted a thread asking if it's true that European surveys show the Dutch are considered the least sympathetic,most obnoxious people in Europe? Would that pass muster? How about if I asked whether there are higher levels of Asperger's Disease in The Netherlands? How about that?

Be my guest. To me it are kind of laughable questions. But make it to a topic. I consider it kind of humor.

I tried to give you a second chance, but you just won't stop. You are on permanent ignore as far as I'm concerned. You will get no responses from me.If people are smart, they'll do the same thing.

The way you communicate does remind me of a sit com we saw in the eighties, the Golden Girls, you probably know it. And of them was Sophia Petrolli. Mark this is not stereotyping all Southerners or Italians (sic!), but you style reminds me very striking of her, wiki:

Sophia is best known for her wisecracks, put-downs and brazen remarks,

You don't seem aware how much this marks this forum.....

My grandfather told me 'every bird sings as they were born', so no single problem with any style or whatsoever but a public and repetitive call for ostracism is IMO not fair, nothing more nothing less.

Live and let live Angela! And debate is an oxygen of a forum....even if you don't like the person or the opinions of the members!

the ratio among biggest confirmed infected country to lowest at EU is 70,52 times !!!!! (LUX/HUN)

East of Alps all countries are bellow average EU's infection !!!!!!

the graph on a logarithic scale shows a stability on Italy and Swiss, but a liitle tense for Spain, but under a control situation
estimation of full control can be done for the above but what meaning has to post it, some countries appear to have 2 booms.

Italy keeps the record of high confirmed mortality, while some other countries keep 0,00 like Latvia 0/398

I'm surprised he says malaria is still present there, although I know it used to be in the areas around the Po, but it's certainly possible that people with long ancestry there might have higher levels of thalassemia.

Whether, if they carry it in higher numbers, it's protective, I don't know.

Interestingly enough, people who have malaria are given quinine, and hydroxychloroquine (Plaquenil) is being tested because it seems to help some patients who have severe Covid 19. I hope they hurry up with the tests. People with autoimmune disorders like rheumatoid arthritis have been taking it for decades, and the only worrying side effect at "very" high doses is vision changes, so people are checked periodically.

The question of varying genetic susceptibility to Covid 19 is something I've been thinking about too. The common cold is a coronavirus too, after all, and some people are much more susceptible.

I was actually going to post this article.

"Yosuke Tanigawa and Manuel Rivas of Stanford University, who have also been involved in the Host Genetics Initiative, studied data from UK Biobank to look at leucocyte antigens and blood types to understand the role of genetics in Covid-19 infections. Their work, which has not been peer-reviewed, was published on preprints.org on March 24."

"Drawing on studies that found an association between more severe Covid-19 cases and individuals with lower lymphocyte – or white blood cell – counts, the two said that lymphocyte count “may play a role in susceptibility to viral infection and disease progression”.