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You, I and Mr. Smith are all in agreement on that issue. The market has no morality, it's just a mechanism that seeks the greatest efficiency within the bounds of it's environment.

There is nothing inherently wrong with capitalism. However, a "market" is made up of people. For those within that market there will be folks who do the "right" thing. There will be folks who do the "wrong" thing. In life you choose your sides. The Bible clearly states not to take advantage of others. Capitalism taken to extremes can and will take advantage of others in the hands of folks who have no concerns for anything other than the almighty dollar.

Fun thread/the op has a source for 20% off. I've recently seen the prices the dealer pays. Some of the mark-ups are very high. I visit BMW dealers all over the US and Europe. Some discount/some don't/several add to msrp, which I find to be funny as I see people ordering from them and praising the service they recd.
Any dealer going out of business isn't doing it because they discounted on parts.

Fun thread/the op has a source for 20% off. I've recently seen the prices the dealer pays. Some of the mark-ups are very high. I visit BMW dealers all over the US and Europe. Some discount/some don't/several add to msrp, which I find to be funny as I see people ordering from them and praising the service they recd.

Receiving good service and what you paid for a part have nothing to do with one another. A customer is entitled to good service no matter what the part sold for.

Originally Posted by martyhill

Any dealer going out of business isn't doing it because they discounted on parts.

Thankfully, the Reformation and the Medici's helped us get past that stumbling block. Prior to that time, we only had Jewish people for financial services.

However, your sentiment is correct and Adam Smith's later writings addressed the need for the community to establish social norms (i.e., the Golden Rule from the Bible) for regulating business activity.

Thankfully, the Reformation and the Medici's helped us get past that stumbling block. Prior to that time, we only had Jewish people for financial services.

However, your sentiment is correct and Adam Smith's later writings addressed the need for the community to establish social norms (i.e., the Golden Rule from the Bible) for regulating business activity.

Well, I didn't mean usury specifically but yes that would be included. There are many references Biblically speaking but what I was thinking of is this: Someone needs to sell a valuable car for example in order to pay medical bills for his wife. Or, someone is under financial duress for whatever reason. The car is worth say $150k. Theoretically anyway. Capitalism would state if there are no buyers at $150k the car is not worth $150k. You as a buyer know you can flip that car immediately for that amount. The final buyer isn't aware the car is even available in the market place.

So instead of offering the seller say $125k which would allow a gross margin of 17% (frequently not an attainable number) you hammer the seller for a buy at $75k knowing full well he desperately needs the money. He agrees to the $75k. Everything is in accordance with capitalism so far. But the buyer from a moral point of view has taken gross advantage of someone badly in need of funding so you the buyer now have the means to make a killing on someone else's legitimate problem.

Well, I didn't mean usury specifically but yes that would be included. There are many references Biblically speaking but what I was thinking of is this: Someone needs to sell a valuable car for example in order to pay medical bills for his wife. Or, someone is under financial duress for whatever reason. The car is worth say $150k. Theoretically anyway. Capitalism would state if there are no buyers at $150k the car is not worth $150k. You as a buyer know you can flip that car immediately for that amount. The final buyer isn't aware the car is even available in the market place.

So instead of offering the seller say $125k which would allow a gross margin of 17% (frequently not an attainable number) you hammer the seller for a buy at $75k knowing full well he desperately needs the money. He agrees to the $75k. Everything is in accordance with capitalism so far. But the buyer from a moral point of view has taken gross advantage of someone badly in need of funding so you the buyer now have the means to make a killing on someone else's legitimate problem.

PayDay Loan and Check Cashing businesses would fit that description. Desperation and financial need is the basis for most of Charles Dicken's novels.

Billy, I honestly agree with you and I truly miss those Mom and Pop dealerships that provided great service, but lacked the capacity for the desired corporate aesthetics or volume. Many of those places were great businesses with loyal customers that simply didn't match the desired image of the distributor.

PayDay Loan and Check Cashing businesses would fit that description. Desperation and financial need is the basis for most of Charles Dicken's novels.

Billy, I honestly agree with you and I truly miss those Mom and Pop dealerships that provided great service, but lacked the capacity for the desired corporate aesthetics or volume. Many of those places were great businesses with loyal customers that simply didn't match the desired image of the distributor.

I miss those days as well. In an era of multi-franchise stores I cannot possibly believe it is beneficial for one dealer to be selling 4 or 5 or 6 different brands. The end result is most if not all of the employees, and dealer principal as well, cannot possibly have any depth when it comes to product and/or technical knowledge unless you have true product specialists in both the front end and the rear end. Something which almost never happens.

Being a realist I do understand that the single franchise dealership is going the way of the dinosaur. They simply can't absorb all the overhead anymore. It's a shame because I do believe if you're involved in an enthusiast business bigger rarely equates to better.

Someone said something about something that didn't present both sides of the story and in my zeal I presented the other side of the story to hopefully offer up a fair, two-sided commentary. Some felt I was biased towards dealers and I was really only trying to project the side of the story not presented in the interest of being fair although I'm fully aware being fair is not necessarily the goal of some for who knows what reason because being fair is bad. Hence the Bible. Uh...

I'm not so sure myself anymore but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Someone said something about something that didn't present both sides of the story and in my zeal I presented the other side of the story to hopefully have something that appeared to be fair, two-sided commentary. Some felt I was biased to dealers and I was really only trying to project the side of the story not presented in the interest of being fair although I'm fully aware being fair is not necessaily the goal of many for who knows what reason because being fair is bad. Hence the Bible. Uh...

I'm not so sure myself anymore but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Billy,

I thought you presented your opinion/perspective quite well and I enjoyed the discussion.