Doing the honourable thing....

It seems Liam Fox - the UK's defence minister, lest we forget - made 'serious mistakes' when he allowed some bloke to sit in on high security defence meetings. It's difficult not to wonder if this was all made possible because the bloke in question was Fox's best man at his wedding. Security vetting? Nope.....no problem there. You were his best man for pity's sake......what more d'you need? Like they say, it's who you know, especially when you're a Tory.

It seems Liam Fox - the UK's defence minister, lest we forget - made 'serious mistakes' when he allowed some bloke to sit in on high security defence meetings. It's difficult not to wonder if this was all made possible because the bloke in question was Fox's best man at his wedding. Security vetting? Nope.....no problem there. You were his best man for pity's sake......what more d'you need? Like they say, it's who you know, especially when you're a Tory.

[quote]It seems Liam Fox - the UK's defence minister, lest we forget - made 'serious mistakes' when he allowed some bloke to sit in on high security defence meetings. It's difficult not to wonder if this was all made possible because the bloke in question was Fox's best man at his wedding. Security vetting? Nope.....no problem there. You were his best man for pity's sake......what more d'you need? Like they say, it's who you know, especially when you're a Tory.[/quote]
Reading your post it may have potentially made some sense BUT the minute you tainted it with your party bias, which in reality is utter nonesense, you spoiled the honesty of your point. Do you think Labour dont have their privately educated wealthy members, old boys or their dubious friends or allow shamed characters into positions of power - see Mandleson. They are as filth ridden and contemptuous as any other party.

Quote:It seems Liam Fox - the UK's defence minister, lest we forget - made 'serious mistakes' when he allowed some bloke to sit in on high security defence meetings. It's difficult not to wonder if this was all made possible because the bloke in question was Fox's best man at his wedding. Security vetting? Nope.....no problem there. You were his best man for pity's sake......what more d'you need? Like they say, it's who you know, especially when you're a Tory.

Reading your post it may have potentially made some sense BUT the minute you tainted it with your party bias, which in reality is utter nonesense, you spoiled the honesty of your point. Do you think Labour dont have their privately educated wealthy members, old boys or their dubious friends or allow shamed characters into positions of power - see Mandleson. They are as filth ridden and contemptuous as any other party.

political mumbo jumbo.....why bring politics into a conversation since labourites and conservatives rarely if ever agree on anything and certainly arn't about to change one anothers point of view.
Terry.

political mumbo jumbo.....why bring politics into a conversation since labourites and conservatives rarely if ever agree on anything and certainly arn't about to change one anothers point of view.

[quote]Political mumbo jumbo.....why bring politics into a conversation since labourites and conservatives rarely if ever agree on anything and certainly arn't about to change one anothers point of view.
Terry.[/quote]
Yes - it isnt about "especially when you are a Tory". It is about behaviour, judgement etc .. something that all party's seem to lack at some time or other. Unfortunately attempts to score political points is inevitable - apologise and you admit fault, dont apologise and you are arrogant and not accepting responsibility etc etc .. but it is a governmental issue rather than anything to do with party politics.

Quote:Political mumbo jumbo.....why bring politics into a conversation since labourites and conservatives rarely if ever agree on anything and certainly arn't about to change one anothers point of view.

Terry.

Yes - it isnt about "especially when you are a Tory". It is about behaviour, judgement etc .. something that all party's seem to lack at some time or other. Unfortunately attempts to score political points is inevitable - apologise and you admit fault, dont apologise and you are arrogant and not accepting responsibility etc etc .. but it is a governmental issue rather than anything to do with party politics.

People make mistakes, the question is should a man in charge of probably the most important department in the government?
and what of the civil servants around him? This isnt just one mans judgement, there would have been travel arrangements to make, security measures in place.
The statement about 'not breaking the rules' shouldnt really hold water, especially after the expenses scandal, because we all know that those rules dont stand up to public scrutiny, nor should they.

People make mistakes, the question is should a man in charge of probably the most important department in the government?

and what of the civil servants around him? This isnt just one mans judgement, there would have been travel arrangements to make, security measures in place.

The statement about 'not breaking the rules' shouldnt really hold water, especially after the expenses scandal, because we all know that those rules dont stand up to public scrutiny, nor should they.

[quote].....it isnt about "especially when you are a Tory[/quote]
[quote]They are as filth ridden and contemptuous as any other party[/quote]
Say what you like but being a Tory is more about who you are than what you are which is why incompetence is one of the party's foundation stones. Unelected representatives are in all political parties but to allow someone unchecked into high level government meetings when they have little qualification to do so other than that they were your best man and shared a flat with you.....well

Quote:.....it isnt about "especially when you are a Tory

Quote:They are as filth ridden and contemptuous as any other party

Say what you like but being a Tory is more about who you are than what you are which is why incompetence is one of the party's foundation stones. Unelected representatives are in all political parties but to allow someone unchecked into high level government meetings when they have little qualification to do so other than that they were your best man and shared a flat with you.....well

[quote]Say what you like but being a Tory is more about who you are than what you are [/quote]
What a load of....drivel. All politics is about 'who you know'. How about Blair and his Northern junta? I think it is that sort of knee-jerk one-eyed view that does our democratic system a huge disservice. Whole swathes of population on both sides of the political divide vote for no other reason than 'their dad did it' wihtout any consideration of the merit of the party. And then people complain about the type of government we get.

Quote:Say what you like but being a Tory is more about who you are than what you are

What a load of....drivel. All politics is about 'who you know'. How about Blair and his Northern junta? I think it is that sort of knee-jerk one-eyed view that does our democratic system a huge disservice. Whole swathes of population on both sides of the political divide vote for no other reason than 'their dad did it' wihtout any consideration of the merit of the party. And then people complain about the type of government we get.

Politics is about getting things done. Who to contact to get your view enacted.
In other words 'who you know'. Not in the negative way you meant it but in a practical sense. The downside of that is that at some time and MP/minister will be working with people who take advantage or the MP will stretch the boundaries intentionally or unintentionally.
And I am sure there are a zillion other MPs whose relationships with friends and lobbyists could be interpreted in the same way as Fox and Werrity. As well as Mandelsson and his cronies, think Blair and Ecclestone. And the significant criticisms Cherie Blair has received as getting her shout in the trough even though she was only the PM's wife.
I am not defending Fox, just that I have not yet heard enough to be convinced he did a huge amount that was wrong. And I have not heard anything (yet?) to say that Werrity had access to confidential and secret MOD information.
But then again, modern politics (especially press couverage) is majorly about character assassination and not discussion of issues that really matter.

Politics is about getting things done. Who to contact to get your view enacted.
In other words 'who you know'. Not in the negative way you meant it but in a practical sense. The downside of that is that at some time and MP/minister will be working with people who take advantage or the MP will stretch the boundaries intentionally or unintentionally.
And I am sure there are a zillion other MPs whose relationships with friends and lobbyists could be interpreted in the same way as Fox and Werrity. As well as Mandelsson and his cronies, think Blair and Ecclestone. And the significant criticisms Cherie Blair has received as getting her shout in the trough even though she was only the PM's wife.

I am not defending Fox, just that I have not yet heard enough to be convinced he did a huge amount that was wrong. And I have not heard anything (yet?) to say that Werrity had access to confidential and secret MOD information.
But then again, modern politics (especially press couverage) is majorly about character assassination and not discussion of issues that really matter.

[quote]modern politics...is majorly not [about] discussion of issues that really matter.[/quote]
So what do they do in parliament? I don't dispute the point that wheeling and dealing plays a major role in politics but this situation, occurring as it has on the back of Coulson, gives ammunition to those that perceive the Tory party as a priviledged club operating clandestinely as a law unto itself. According to what I read, Wheeting was using Fox's parliamentary office to promote himself and his business interests to the extent that Fox was warned by a civil servant about it.

So what do they do in parliament? I don't dispute the point that wheeling and dealing plays a major role in politics but this situation, occurring as it has on the back of Coulson, gives ammunition to those that perceive the Tory party as a priviledged club operating clandestinely as a law unto itself. According to what I read, Wheeting was using Fox's parliamentary office to promote himself and his business interests to the extent that Fox was warned by a civil servant about it.

[quote]So what do they do in parliament?[/quote]
Try to score points from each other.
[quote] Wheeting was using Fox's parliamentary office to promote himself and his business interests to the extent that Fox was warned by a civil servant about it.[/quote]
Therein lies the essence of modern politics (all parties) where business/corporate interests are served before that of the people who elect politicians, although technically our own electoral system is more akin to a dictatorship. Its all very unsurprising. This 'error of judgement' thing is wearing a bit thin in politics, there seems to be a lot of it, shame the rest of us are exempt from its overuse.

Quote:So what do they do in parliament?

Try to score points from each other.

Quote: Wheeting was using Fox's parliamentary office to promote himself and his business interests to the extent that Fox was warned by a civil servant about it.

Therein lies the essence of modern politics (all parties) where business/corporate interests are served before that of the people who elect politicians, although technically our own electoral system is more akin to a dictatorship. Its all very unsurprising. This 'error of judgement' thing is wearing a bit thin in politics, there seems to be a lot of it, shame the rest of us are exempt from its overuse.

[quote]Try to score points from each other[/quote]
In prime minister's question time, yes. But the bulk of parliamentary procedure isn't about that. It's long debates over forthcoming bills and proposed government policy. It's MPs raising and discussing their constituents' genuine concerns. Then there's the work that goes on back in the constituency itself, holding clinics, standing up for local concerns, initiating action, working with party activists etc. Folk like this friend of Fox's do the country a dis-service imo by appearing to work the system to their own advantage whilst not really contributing anything. Note that according to one article I read, Fox and his mate had set up a consultancy offering expertise in certain areas of government activity.

Quote:Try to score points from each other

In prime minister's question time, yes. But the bulk of parliamentary procedure isn't about that. It's long debates over forthcoming bills and proposed government policy. It's MPs raising and discussing their constituents' genuine concerns. Then there's the work that goes on back in the constituency itself, holding clinics, standing up for local concerns, initiating action, working with party activists etc. Folk like this friend of Fox's do the country a dis-service imo by appearing to work the system to their own advantage whilst not really contributing anything. Note that according to one article I read, Fox and his mate had set up a consultancy offering expertise in certain areas of government activity.