June 22, 2011

The reported facts are sketchy, and Meade and I didn't happen to be there to witness what happened. Here is a snippet of video — from the Wisconsin State Journal — showing former state Senator David Zien (in a wheelchair )— circling the rotunda in what looks like a deliberate attempt to move the singalong crowd to the periphery of the rotunda.

Zien — the rider of the 1st Million Mile Harley, who lost his leg in a motorcycle accident last March — seems, at the beginning of the clip, to be trying to dislodge his nonmotorized wheelchair from the foot of one of the singers. Judging from the position of the foot, it looks to me as if the singalong man had extended his foot. In any event, Zien looks determined. The singalong people are a regular group that takes over the prime rotunda space every weekday noon hour to sing about how they will overcome Scott Walker some day and how they're sticking to the union and so forth.

The report in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel says that, according to one of the singalong participants, Zien yelled "Walker for president." Accompanying Zien were 2 men — "Green Bay resident Henry Rahr and Shorewood, Minn., resident Eugene German" — who carried "Don't Tread on Me" flags. So these men were rivals for the greatest free-speech territory in the state: the rotunda.

A singalong participant named Sue Trace said that the men "draped Zien's 'Don't Tread On Me' flag over the singers' heads." That's not in the video, so try to picture what that might have looked like. There's a big range of possibility with respect to how much flag-head contact occurred and how intentional it was. Based on the video we have, I'd guess that the 3 pro-Walker men decided the singalong crowd had no right to control the rotunda territory and decided they would make a counter-demonstration out of taking it back.

In that situation, emotions surge in unpredictable ways. Here's the Journal Sentinel description of what happened next:

Michael Dickman, 50, said Rahr and German were bumping into him along with other singers and grabbing their banners. Dickman said he tried to pull the flag away from Rahr. Dickman said Rahr then put him in a headlock and punched him in the face, chipping his front tooth.

Rahr, 50, was charged with battery but denied punching Dickman. Rahr said Dickman tried to tear the flag out of his hands....

Police cited Rahr, German and Dickman for disorderly conduct.

There must be more video of this unfortunate melée. For the most part, over the long weeks of the Wisconsin protests, people supporting the Governor have stayed away, while the anti-Walker people have chanted "Whose house?/Our house!" over and over and over. Zien felt moved to take a stand — from the position of a wheelchair — and the singalong group chose not to withdraw beyond the pillars that ring the rotunda — not to let the man have the space.

Capital police ought to move all this shit outside. "People's house" my ass. It's an office building to do the people's business not a fucking parade ground for all manner of kooks of whatever stripe. No wonder Badger state politics are so crazy.

Looks to me like he's just wheeling around to yell at them...and certainly there has been no shortage of that done by lefties at the capitol over the last months. The only difference is that it is usually a hoard of protesters versus one.

As far as "running over their belongings" that happens once, he backs up, and then avoids it at two more "opportunities"...so that's crap.

The lack of manners is, frankly, shocking. But after witnessing what I did during the Palin rally a few months back, it’s no longer surprising. Apparently no-one else has a right to have a voice. silent majority indeed.

It's an office building to do the people's business not a fucking parade ground for all manner of kooks of whatever stripe.

It is an office building, yes. But different from any other office building, I hope you can see. If citizenry are not allowed to petition lawmakers where the laws are made, then everyone has lost something. If the lawmakers are losing patience with this particular aspect of their job, well I suggest that others are quite willing to take over for them.

It is an office building, yes. But different from any other office building, I hope you can see. If citizenry are not allowed to petition lawmakers where the laws are made, then everyone has lost something. If the lawmakers are losing patience with this particular aspect of their job, well I suggest that others are quite willing to take over for them.

Really, dude? You really see this type of protest theater inside the capitol building as something that's essential to democracy?

These people aren't "petitioning" anybody, they're making a goddamn nuisance of themselves to anyone who might want to might want to use that particular public space for something else. Like a regularly scheduled blood drive, for instance. Or even people that want to get some state business done without the distraction of protesters and counter-protesters chanting, screaming and pulling each other's hair like a bunch of 10 year old girls.

You're a state employee, how would like these yahoos to have their little singalongs outside your cubicle?

Oh Please, MadMan, you've been dodging and equivocating on behalf of these Government thugs since day one. Now your point is that if people don't like the constant disruptions and denial of free speech, assembly, etc. by anyone other than Govt. approved protesters, they should get out of the State House? Let the violence prevail. Just keep trying to justify the actions of these goons and hoods who run your State by force, and maybe they won't turn on you. Such a brave and principled man.

I'm not seeing the lack of manners, S. The one fellow, picked up his stuff so Zien could continue. Others even stepped back as he came by. Both have a right to be there to hold vigil, to raise awareness and to bear witness. However, if you're there to provoke, that's another matter.

Indeed. It tends to be those smelly folks in t-shirts adorned with clenched fists demanding more wealth transfers from the productive segment of society.

Except in this case it was a smelly old crank in a wheelchair and two unemployed (?) tea partiers with Gadsen flags demanding to not be tread upon, while draping their flags over people and punching them in the face.

Wonder what Zien thinks about that 500 million cut in Medicaid he is on?

Except in this case it was a smelly old crank in a wheelchair and two unemployed (?) tea partiers with Gadsen flags demanding to not be tread upon, while draping their flags over people and punching them in the face.

You're such a blatant fucking liar, garbage. You don't know any such thing.

How many thousands - maybe millions of man-hours have been spent exercising it here, and I doubt any minds have been changed, or very few.

The value of free speech is to peacefully persuade, not confront and express disapproval. If all the people who protested sat down and discussed the issue with someone who disagrees, much more would have been accomplished for all of us.

I suspect that often when people protest publicly like this it's because they don't want to discuss it out of fear of losing their hardness, their conviction, their emotional fix and the argument.

Highest motorcycle mileage world record holderLongest distance on a motorcycle world record holderIron Butt Association memberTraveled 48 states in eight daysTraveled 1,616 miles in 24 hoursTraveled 3,032 miles in 48 hoursFirst motorcycle-riding state legislatorPushed the motorcycle through 45 paradesSurvived four motorcycle-deer collisionsRecord holder for most motorcycle rides givenLeast number of speeding tickets per 100,000-mile incrementInducted into the national Motorcycle Hall of Fame with Peter Fonda

"WI public employees are just like blacks in the Jim Crow south! Except for the gold plated benefits, early retirement and higher than average salaries.",

They more resemble the racists who did not want to give up the benefits of their entrenched and favored position or remove the yokes on those who supported it. It's Jim Crow alright. But the unionists are the ones trying to monopolize the lunch counters.

Would,by your construct of "petition," would this type of behavior be permitted in the US Capitol? or 1600 Pennsylvania Ave? I dont think so--

Do you believe that States can operate differently than the Federal Government?

I have no idea how things are done in other states. I don't recall this type of thing being done in PA when I was growing up. But the culture of Wisconsin is a little bit different.

The fact that this is unlikely to be allowed in the cesspool that is Washington DC does NOT mean it should be disallowed in Wisconsin.

The relevant sentence is: Every person may freely speak, write and publish his sentiments on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right, and no laws shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech... You'll notice Except in the State Capitol Building does not appear. You might argue that some are abusing this right. I disagree.

The ongoing riots in Greece, brought on by socialist overspending and the decline of the worldwide economy, has resulted in unavoidable and severe cuts in spending. Unemployment is rampant, and the government has run out of money to spend.

Still, those dependent on the State demand payment. Receiving none, they riot.

I think we are seeing the initial stages of this disorder here, played out first in the Wisconsin rotunda. Obama does not have a successful way out of our Depression and things will remain bad for several years.

Perhaps Pogo is right. Madison might well be the start of the spreading disorder and permanent protest model here in the US. I do not like it, and doubt other States will put up with a 6-month "occupation" of state offices and select buildings by "singalong protestors", union members with the leisure time to take paid days off from their job, do sleepovers.

We also have to be wary of the Walker gambit of saying that benefits and collective bargaining have to be scaled back for all government employees but "The Heroes"...those whose job title aligns them with public safety, a homeland security sinecure. Sadly, special exception for "The Heroes" is very much like Roman Emperors cutting back everywhere save on pay for the Praetorian Guard. Because leaders in troubled times do not want the Heroes turning on them if less gold than they demand isn't a coming.

Garage, we know you think very little about the capabilities of black people but this vitriol towards the physically challenged comes as a bit of a surprise. You are unimpressed by the credentials of the wheelchair bound tea partier. Perhaps you could offer up your own starting with....with anything you could produce that would startle us with your record of achievement.

I make no comment or jump to conclusions until I read the court case and testimony from observers. I am sure folks on both sides have backgrounds to be proud of, but individuals often lose perspective in a crowd or confrontation--

The singalong people are a regular group that takes over the prime rotunda space every weekday noon hour to sing about how they will overcome Scott Walker some day and how they're sticking to the union and so forth.

5 months of protesting, don't recall one assault from union supporters. Crime actually went down in Madison. Except when the tea party comes to town. Not exactly suire what they're so mad about? They got everything they wanted.

"5 months of protesting, don't recall one assault from union supporters. Crime actually went down in Madison. Except when the tea party comes to town. Not exactly suire what they're so mad about? They got everything they wanted."

GM spent months telling us that the threats we were reading had never been written, the swastikas we saw had never been displayed, and the damage to the Capitol we witnessed did not happen. A consistent history of lying means that you have zero credibility, GM, and you only have yourself to blame.

GM spent months telling us that the threats we were reading had never been written, the swastikas we saw had never been displayed, and the damage to the Capitol we witnessed did not happen. A consistent history of lying means that you have zero credibility, GM, and you only have yourself to blame.

Seriously? You lie as easy as you breathe. You couldn't come up with one cite to prove any of this.

A crime that occurs when one person tries to physically harm another in a way that makes the person under attack feel immediately threatened. Actual physical contact is not necessary; threatening gestures that would alarm any reasonable person can constitute an assault.

GM, I invite you to scroll down and find all the early posts on this topic to refresh your memory. I'm sure you won't, because you know what you'll find.Everybody here, and all the lurkers, know that I'm being honest. We all had to suffer your pathetic lies for weeks on end.

"Ok. No union supporters punched anyone in the face that led to their arrest. And technically the person is being charged with battery, not assault. I stand corrected."

Perhaps that's because no one tried to take away anything from a union supporter and was charged with disorderly conduct, which preceeded the battery. You will see that in both my examples the person be assaulted tried to avoid the confrontation. That didn't stop the pro-union mobs from not chasing them down.

Nope, didn't even look. My memory is clear. The question is: Have you looked? I'm calling you a bald-faced liar, and if you have the means to prove me wrong, produce them. First you'll have to build a time machine (or frantically scrub hundreds of old posts), so I'll wait.

Nope, not gonna shut up or post cites. Not for a lowlife like you. I watched you hysterically and dishonestly defend the Govt. thugs abusing their fellow citizens for far too long to have to go look it up. I'll leave it to anyone who cares to check to find out who's lying. I don't lie so I have nothing to fear. Ever had a conscience like that? I can tell you that it's quite a nice way to live. Try it some time.

Some dipshit without health insurance is out protesting against health insurance, falls down, gets right back and talks to reporters. And the next day is in a neckbrace. This is a right wing "assault". It's why you never see a link to the "beating", because it didn't happen. Won't stop you from lying about if of course. It's how wingers roll.

Before someones tries to berate the Kenneth Gladney thing as a wingnut lie, or some such, this happened about ten minutes from me. I was originally planning on attending, but couldn't make it due to kids (damned kids). The friends I was supposed to meet there DID go, however, and saw the whole thing. Gladney was physically attacked, the perps fled the scene, and the city did everything they could to drag their feet on it.

Who are these "wingers"?Are they the filthy animals who marched through the streets with swastikas? Are they the ignorant hordes who stormed the Capitol? Are they the mouth-breathing little pussies who wouldn't let a 14-year old speak? Please, tell me.

Rahr and German are well known activists in the the concealed carry arena. Founders of Wisconsin Patriot in 2001, they testified on Zien's proposed CC legislation in 2005. Both are certified firearm instructors, and were positioned to benefit greatly with the signing of the CC law, licensed to perform the training required by the law. I say "were" and not "are" as I would guess this little stunt could cost them their certification.

Garage, sorry, my friends' eyeballs don't have timestamp ability. They were standing about 30 feet away and had, in fact, just talked to Gladney about his merch before starting to head into the meeting. The SIUE idiots started in on him for being a race traitor (among other things), right up in his face, and then it got physical.

We've seen how Liberals treat blacks who don't toe the line. Thomas, Cain, West, etc. are all subjected to vile and racist abuse by the Left. That Gladney survived the attempted Union lynching is a blessing.

Notice that GM believes the claims of a WHITE protester, but calls the BLACK protester a liar. Maybe living in a segregated society has left him stunted, but even GM must see the inherent racism in his position.

Which isn't *assault* since it doesn't involve another person but it is violent and it is destructive.

As others have pointed out, garage, the anti-Walker protesters were left alone... until now. But they still managed to break things.

You keep saying that flags were draped over singers... I'm still waiting to find out if that's a lie or not, because anyone would be justified in pulling away fabric *draped* on them. But I'm betting it wasn't that at all, and the flag just got close enough to grab and a "I get to take and/or destroy your property" impulse was indulged.

The anti-Walker folks haven't been the least bit shy about getting their counter-protesters out to do their very best to disrupt other people's events, to drown out and make impossible other people's speech.

You think it's obvious, that something is *obvious*, and if there is something obvious it is that up until now the good manners all ran one direction. That there were no assaults or even tuffles before it's because pro-Walker people refrained in the face of provocation, while the anti-Walker people broke doors.

Based on the video we have, I'd guess that the 3 pro-Walker men decided the singalong crowd had no right to control the rotunda territory and decided they would make a counter-demonstration out of taking it back.

There are photos (HERE IS ONE) with the news stories showing people lined up at the rail and then the wingnuts threw their flag in front of those people, also making physical contact.

They draped their flag over other people who were exercising their First Amendment rights.

Then this Batshittery:

Zien felt moved to take a stand — from the position of a wheelchair — and the singalong group chose not to withdraw beyond the pillars that ring the rotunda — not to let the man have the space.

So on Planet Althouse, if a conservative, one person, wants to control the space already occupied by many other people, non-conservatives probably, then the non-conservatives should just get out of the way. If they don't get out of Crazy Dave Zien's way, then they deserve physical abuse and intimidation.

sarge here old zien might of put 1million miles on his hardly (MAYBE) but he aint got thar -Longest distance on a motorcycle world record whatever that is... old ziens a friggin amatuer when it comes to that kinda stuff