Revision as of 00:28, April 17, 2007

Title

I don't understand why this article is entitled 'Orthros' when 'Matins' is both the accepted and proper term in English. Can someone enlighten me? -- Pistevo 14:22, December 13, 2005 (CST)

Early on we had a discussion and elected to go with the Greek Orthros rather than the Latinate Matins as the standard for this article. This follows the pattern used elsewhere on OrthodoxWiki of preferring the Greek form of a name as the main article, with variants redirecting to it (see, for instance Diakonissa and Shamassy, Presbytera and Matushka, etc.). —Dcn. Davidtalkcontribs 14:47, December 13, 2005 (CST)

Thanks. I knew that was somewhere, but couldn't find it quickly. You are always rescuing me. I appreciate it. ;-) —Dcn. Davidtalkcontribs 15:18, December 13, 2005 (CST)

As far as I can see, the relevant part of the style manual says: "Thus, the preference for OrthodoxWiki will be to use Greek terms where no standard English word is predominant among Anglophonic Orthodox writers". The critical difference between Matins vs Orthros and Presvytera vs Matushka is that Matins is an English word, and is unquestionably predominant. -- Pistevo 03:02, December 14, 2005 (CST)

Is it? At least in the US (can't speak for y'all in the Global Deep South), Orthros is the preferred term among Byzantine tradition churches (which are in the majority). —Fr. Andrewtalkcontribs(THINK!) 07:37, December 14, 2005 (CST)

*greatly surprised*. If Orthros is predominant in North America, then I agree that it's probably best as it is (since most English translations - and most web-surfers - are from there anyway). In my neck of the woods, I'd have to pronounce Orthros with a Greek accent (like, say, Pistevo), because it'd sound like I was using a technical term. -- — by Pιsτévοtalkcomplaints at 16:46, December 14, 2005 (CST)

Using the Google Method -- Orthros vs. Matins

Indeed. (No doubt your millions of voters there are mostly heretics, however!) However, this is not a spelling issue. This instead falls under the "Do we use Greek or Russian or Arabic or English technical terms"? "Matins" is clearly not favored by a massive amount of Anglophonic Orthodoxy, so the standard we've long used is to use Greek terminology for technical and theological terms, since it is original and universal.

Then, if you look at the major English translations, you have Nassar, Hapgood, Ware, Boston, Jordanville, and St. John of Kronstadt Press, all using Matins. In fact, I am unaware of any widely used Orthodox English text that uses "Orthros". I know what "Orthros" is, but honestly, I think far more people don't... and at least Matins rings a bell with most. But while this is my opinion, I am partly just yanking your chain here. :) I can live with "Orthros". :) Frjohnwhiteford 17:11, April 16, 2007 (PDT)