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Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.

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Re: One World Government

Originally Posted by Wessexman

I disagree completely, the American republic has tried its hardest to fight against this, and partially succeeded, but it has still succumbed. The federal gov't has grown massively in power at the expense of locales and states and accountability and restraints have decreased. The American republic is an admirable example that safeguards can have some effects but can't hold the inevitable tide for ever.

The power of the government has increased, however, we have still maintained a liberal democracy. You asserted that with such a high population under a world government democracy and liberalism would essentially be meaningless, however, if anything as population size in the American Republic increased so too have the rights of the individual IE total incorporation plus of the Federal Bill of Rights into the states through the SCOTUS's interpretations of the due process clause of the 14 amendment.

Re: One World Government

Originally Posted by PeteEU

Remember to take off the tin foil hat when going outside in a thunderstorm.

Why?

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Re: One World Government

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

The power of the government has increased, however, we have still maintained a liberal democracy. You asserted that with such a high population under a world government democracy and liberalism would essentially be meaningless, however, if anything as population size in the American Republic increased so too have the rights of the individual IE total incorporation plus of the Federal Bill of Rights into the states through the SCOTUS's interpretations of the due process clause of the 14 amendment.

Well okay I agree I did go a little too far; democracy would be meaningless, whether the society would be liberal and in what sense and for how long is not certain but I would think its liberality would be no better than ours at the best and be very precarious at the best. As a decentralist I do think therefore it would be in a worse position than a more decentralised society in this sense and in several others like the economy, society, culture and such.

Last edited by Wessexman; 09-08-09 at 02:10 AM.

"It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.

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Re: One World Government

Originally Posted by Wessexman

Well okay I agree I did go a little too far; democracy would be meaningless, whether the society would be liberal and in what sense and for how long is not certain but I would think its liberality would be no better than ours at the best and be very precarious at the best.

Our liberality is greater than it's ever been. On what basis do you make the claim that increased population size has a causal relationship on diminished liberalness? Within the structures of existing liberal societies it appears to me that the exact inverse is true. That's not to say that there is a causal relationship between increased population size and increased liberalism, however, there does appear to be a correlation.

Re: One World Government

I disagree, the state is larger and more intrusive than ever and it hardly looks likely to become less so in the near-future.

On what basis do you make the claim that increased population size has a causal relationship on diminished liberalness?

A knowledge of hunanity and history. Germany went to war 14 times, if memory serves, in about 800 years before it unified, it produced a flourishing culture and civilisation. After unification it embarked on three massive wars in a less than a century.

When gov't is small it is easier for the individual to check, he has a voice, he can maintain some oversight of it and have a hope of keeping it accountable.

Within the structures of existing liberal societies it appears to me that the exact inverse is true. That's not to say that there is a causal relationship between increased population size and increased liberalism, however, there does appear to be a correlation.

I don't see that at all. Ever since the EU keeps getting involved more and more in British affairs our liberties are becoming more and more restricted. You can't even smoke in a private bar any more.

"It is written in the eternal constitution that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters." - Edmund Burke

Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.

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Re: One World Government

Originally Posted by Wessexman

I disagree, the state is larger and more intrusive than ever and it hardly looks likely to become less so in the near-future.

Not in the U.S. due to total and partial incorporation of the bill of rights into the states.

A knowledge of hunanity and history. Germany went to war 14 times, if memory serves, in about 800 years before it unified, it produced a flourishing culture and civilisation. After unification it embarked on three massive wars in a less than a century.

When gov't is small it is easier for the individual to check, he has a voice, he can maintain some oversight of it and have a hope of keeping it accountable.

Today Germany has a larger population than it did when those wars were fought and they certainly are far more liberal than they have ever been.

I don't see that at all. Ever since the EU keeps getting involved more and more in British affairs our liberties are becoming more and more restricted. You can't even smoke in a private bar any more.

You may not be able to smoke in a bar but you can vote for your leadership, there is universal suffrage, slavery is outlawed, being gay is not a criminal offense, discrimination based on race, creed, or religion is not permitted, you can't be hung for pickpocketing, child labour is not allowed, etc etc..