What?! How could you not want to keep him after big wins over the Seahawks and Rams?

:sarcasm:

I'll be saving my ire for the guy that wants to keep him after those 2 lame wins. We all know where the buck stops.

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 02:16 PM

Dadgum, I wish I would've been there.

This thread's getting a bit ridiculous, no? I think we all want what's best for the Texans and have differing opinions on what that would be. IMO, it's practically obvious Kubiak will be here next season whether we like it or not and there ain't diddly we can do about it. I can understand threads with civil discussions of what to do and why. I don't understand verbally *****-slapping each other when somebody else won't support a particular opinion that quite frankly, ain't likely going to happen either.

Just remember, we all want the same thing.

Yes. Yes it has. It's spun into the absurd, although some of the verbal *****-slapping is kind of funny........ in a pathetic sort of way.

hobie

12-16-2009, 02:19 PM

What?! How could you not want to keep him after big wins over the Seahawks and Rams?

:sarcasm:

That game has not been played yet, and God knows that is not a sure thing !

Grams

12-16-2009, 02:23 PM

[QUOTE=Second Honeymoon;1326104]i hope you are right but I don't want to fire Kubiak to somehow punish Kubiak or to punish the people still supporting him. I want an upgrade. I don't want another experiment or hotshot coordinator. I want a proven commodity that can help this team live up to expectations and play to the best of their ability.
its basically Cowher, Gruden, Schotty, or Holmgren for me. There are a few guys out there that are unproven that I wouldn't mind taking a look at, but I think we need a guy with a proven plan, good coaching connections, experience in game situations, and who has run a team before. it's a short list but why wouldn't anyone want to come here. Young team, great facilities, and one of the few local economies that aren't completely in the tank. QUOTE]

I do not like Gruden - don't ask me why - don't know - just something about him. It looks like Holmgrin is wanting to be a GM and not a coach and has stated that he wants his deal done by Christmas - kind of looking like Cleveland.

Now Cowher or Schotty - I would have to agree I think either of them would be an upgrade.

I do not want a change in the coaching staff for change sake. Get an upgrade with a proven coach only. No more rookie coaches.

HOU-TEX

12-16-2009, 02:28 PM

Yes. Yes it has. It's spun into the absurd, although some of the verbal *****-slapping is kind of funny........ in a pathetic sort of way.

Even though our playoff hopes are all but gone, we still have 3 games to watch, disect and discuss. Our verbal *****-slapping should be towards Rams fans (if they have any left), Phins fans and Pats fans. Not each other.

Geez, y'all are making me sound like a big puh C.

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 02:35 PM

Even though our playoff hopes are all but gone, we still have 3 games to watch, disect and discuss. Our verbal *****-slapping should be towards Rams fans (if they have any left), Phins fans and Pats fans. Not each other.

Geez, y'all are making me sound like a big puh C.

Well..... :whistle:

3 games then football season is over. :cry2:

noxiousdog

12-16-2009, 02:36 PM

Are you suggesting we just ride it out with Kubiak no matter how long it takes because eventually he will become a good coach?

I would be very happy if we could replace Kubiak with Gruden (though, I don't think he's coaching until 2012 at the earliest). I'd be optimistic replacing him with Cowher or Schottenheimer. I'd be ok with with replacing him with Holmgren, but as I understand it, Holmgren doesn't want to coach, he wants to run the organization.

I would be interested in looking at Jim Harbaugh (though college coaches scare me too), and I'm sure there's a few other names that after evaluation might cause me to think it's a positive move.

However, I think that replacing Kubiak with Shannahan or a rookie head coach has much more potential for negative results than positive at this point. Kubiak isn't a success, but he's not a buffoon either. The chances of a rookie head coach is much greater at buffoonery than success.

Has McNair given any indication that he's any good at hiring coaches/GMs? I suppose you could argue he got better at it this time, and next time he'll get it right, but I'm not sold.

But all in all, I'm almost always against change for change sake. Getting rid of Kubiak is completely dependent on who replaces him.

houstonspartan

12-16-2009, 02:37 PM

[QUOTE=Second Honeymoon;1326104]i hope you are right but I don't want to fire Kubiak to somehow punish Kubiak or to punish the people still supporting him. I want an upgrade. I don't want another experiment or hotshot coordinator. I want a proven commodity that can help this team live up to expectations and play to the best of their ability.
its basically Cowher, Gruden, Schotty, or Holmgren for me. There are a few guys out there that are unproven that I wouldn't mind taking a look at, but I think we need a guy with a proven plan, good coaching connections, experience in game situations, and who has run a team before. it's a short list but why wouldn't anyone want to come here. Young team, great facilities, and one of the few local economies that aren't completely in the tank. QUOTE]

I do not like Gruden - don't ask me why - don't know - just something about him. It looks like Holmgrin is wanting to be a GM and not a coach and has stated that he wants his deal done by Christmas - kind of looking like Cleveland.

Now Cowher or Schotty - I would have to agree I think either of them would be an upgrade.

I do not want a change in the coaching staff for change sake. Get an upgrade with a proven coach only. No more rookie coaches.

You probably don't like Gruden because he's a fraud. He won with Tony's team, and then ruined it. He makes funny, goofy makes that makes him look "tough" and we laugh and say, "Oh, look at Chucky, he's so cool!"

noxiousdog

12-16-2009, 02:38 PM

Damn Grams, are you inside my head?

HOU-TEX

12-16-2009, 02:38 PM

Well..... :whistle:

3 games then football season is over. :cry2:

Yep, it'll be over for the Texans. I'll still be watching, recording and re-watching. Gotta have something to discuss over another long off season.

HoustonFrog

12-16-2009, 02:41 PM

Can I post something again or will Big Brother be counting it toward me not listening and getting the last word?Just wondering.:peek:

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 02:43 PM

Yep, it'll be over for the Texans. I'll still be watching, recording and re-watching. Gotta have something to discuss over another long off season.

You probably don't like Gruden because he's a fraud. He won with Tony's team, and then ruined it. He makes funny, goofy makes that makes him look "tough" and we laugh and say, "Oh, look at Chucky, he's so cool!"

He took two teams to championship games, losing to the Patriots only because of a ridiculous tuck rule.

He wasn't the GM in Tampa, and allegedly the ownership there is anything but stable, which is only slightly better than Oakland.

He may have won with Tony's team, but he did far better with it than Tony did, and he's been in the playoffs 5 of 11 years with an overall winning record in the playoffs.

Gruden left Tampa? Already 5 more losses for Tampa this year.
Gruden left Oakland? While Callahan did get one extra win his first year, it's been 4 or 5 wins since with a 2 thrown in for good measure.

Yeah, if the Rockets falter we might be in for a bad professional sports year for Houston.....again.

Texecutioner

12-16-2009, 03:01 PM

He took two teams to championship games, losing to the Patriots only because of a ridiculous tuck rule.

He wasn't the GM in Tampa, and allegedly the ownership there is anything but stable, which is only slightly better than Oakland.

He may have won with Tony's team, but he did far better with it than Tony did, and he's been in the playoffs 5 of 11 years with an overall winning record in the playoffs.

Gruden left Tampa? Already 5 more losses for Tampa this year.
Gruden left Oakland? While Callahan did get one extra win his first year, it's been 4 or 5 wins since with a 2 thrown in for good measure.

Gruden killed that TB team after so many years. He left that franchise in dire measures. He's not a bad coach by any means. He's not a great one either though. He's a very stubborn coach though and is always having battles with certain players on his team that seems to distract his team's improvements. He is a guy that could possibly end up having a lot of success somewhere possibly. I wouldn't bet on it, but it's possible. He really wouldn't be high on my list for possible replacements, but I do know that he can lead some teams to the playoffs. He's done it with two different teams now and has been to the post season more than once with both so I'd still take hi over Kubes right now since Kubes can only go 8-8 at best.

Silver Oak

12-16-2009, 03:02 PM

Dadgum, I wish I would've been there.

This thread's getting a bit ridiculous, no? I think we all want what's best for the Texans and have differing opinions on what that would be. IMO, it's practically obvious Kubiak will be here next season whether we like it or not and there ain't diddly we can do about it. I can understand threads with civil discussions of what to do and why. I don't understand verbally *****-slapping each other when somebody else won't support a particular opinion that quite frankly, ain't likely going to happen either.

Just remember, we all want the same thing.

this whole MB stuff is crazy. I think it's time for another self imposed hiatus.

I've been compared to a lump of coal and a parrot within the last few days!

Are you suggesting we wait seven years before firing Kubiak?Mussop did you even read the post I responded to? He identified Kubes as a failure after four years and indicated he could not do better. I gave one example of a coach doing it before and becoming a hall of fame coach. I did not say Kubes would end up like Landry or that we should wait seven years.

I have not made up my mind yet and I am allowed to do that. I am leaning towards him needing to go but what concerns me is who replaces him. I have no facts to support my opinion but I can't see Cowher coming here. Could it happen? Sure and that is the fun of discussing it. None of the other coaches mentioned stir me. I don't agree that replacing Kubes automatically slows the progression of the team. People say Colts have lost starters as has Houston but my thought is were our back ups as good as Indy's? Gary Kubiac is similar to David Carr imo as he was crushed by many posters. David definitely had his weaknesses as does Kubiac but the Texans did not lose only because of these two men. There are huge statements being tossed out by both sides in this thread that are more based on emotion of the writer rather than fact.

Dan B.

12-16-2009, 03:10 PM

I voted keep because I don't want to fire him outright. I've stayed out of this thread and most of the Texans threads these days. It's too contentious and gets too ugly.

I'm discovering that I can't discuss Texans football right now, because most people are so embedded on one side or the other that they go into defensive mode and assume I am the polar opposite of them on retaining Gary or cleaning house. I've actually gotten into an argument with a friend over this crap. It ain't worth that.

I am very disappointed in Kubiak. I really thought he learned from his mistakes last year, but I keep seeing them again and again. I think we can do better. I have no problems with Smith and agree with most of what he's done.

However, I don't want to fire Kubiak for anyone. If we can get one of the better coaches on the market, than I say go for it. No unproven college coaches or coordinators, please -- and no Chuckie. I am with those that don't buy into his carefully selfcrafted wunderkind image. I don't hate Kubiak and I don't think he's a total disaster. I just don't put all of the blame on the players.

badboy

12-16-2009, 03:10 PM

Dadgum, I wish I would've been there.

This thread's getting a bit ridiculous, no? I think we all want what's best for the Texans and have differing opinions on what that would be. IMO, it's practically obvious Kubiak will be here next season whether we like it or not and there ain't diddly we can do about it. I can understand threads with civil discussions of what to do and why. I don't understand verbally *****-slapping each other when somebody else won't support a particular opinion that quite frankly, ain't likely going to happen either.

Just remember, we all want the same thing.Good Post!

Second Honeymoon

12-16-2009, 03:15 PM

this whole MB stuff is crazy. I think it's time for another self imposed hiatus.

I've been compared to a lump of coal and a parrot within the last few days!

http://threadbombing.com/data/media/2/omgwtf_eyes.gif

SO, you are not a lump of coal purely on the strength of your signature.

maybe a little stubborn but you have graduated from lump of coal status, fwiw.

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 03:16 PM

Yeah, if the Rockets falter we might be in for a bad professional sports year for Houston.....again.

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:

HOU-TEX

12-16-2009, 03:25 PM

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:

I'm right there with ya, brah. I'm just not as much of a fossil as you. It'll only be 40 years for me in 2010.

Dan B.

12-16-2009, 03:34 PM

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:

C'mon man. The Comets won 4 Championships and The Dynamo 2.

Ok, so the Comets no longer exist, the WNBA appears to be following their lead, and the Dynamo might move again if the new stadium falls through. Still, we have those cherished memories of Sheryl Swoopes and Cynthia Cooper guiding us to immortality. Brian Ching is a legend in these parts, right?

Man, I just depressed myself beyond belief. I may just have to look into some Pacific island real estate near you.

I'll still root for Houston teams though. I just can't help myself.

Thorn

12-16-2009, 03:35 PM

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

HOU-TEX

12-16-2009, 03:37 PM

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

Oh geez...:hides:

J_R

12-16-2009, 03:37 PM

John Clayton thinks he'll be back as long as we dont collapse.(Oh wait, didnt we already?;):rolleyes:)

Q: I've heard rumors that Gary Kubiak might retain his job because the Texans are closer than it seems to a future playoff appearance. If they do keep him, what steps do you think Houston should take to keep the team moving forward? Could something as simple as a change at running backs coach help them out?

Alex in Austin, Texas

A: The Texans are close, but I thought the four-game losing streak in the division could cost Kubiak his job, particularly with Mike Shanahan and Bill Cowher available. As long as the Texans don't collapse, Kubiak is expected to stay. What he has to figure out more than anything else is how to keep the running game consistent. Steve Slaton was going great until he had the seven fumbles, and then the running game was shot. Ryan Moats and Chris Brown didn't work out. The Texans have developed a good, young defense. Matt Schaub is on the verge of moving into the elite class of quarterbacks. But at some point, the Texans have to do better in the AFC South. Going 7-3 outside the division and 1-5 in the division leaves them in the 8-8 rut.

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

I don't buy that. The Rockets beat the Bulls the majority of the time in Chicago's heyday, right?

I know for sure that no one in the league had an answer for Olajuwon. Vernon Maxwell couldn't completely shut Jordan down, but I'm pretty sure that he could outperform whoever the Bulls threw at Hakeem.

Thorn

12-16-2009, 03:43 PM

I don't buy that. The Rockets beat the Bulls the majority of the time in Chicago's heyday, right?

I know for sure that no one in the league had an answer for Olajuwon. Vernon Maxwell couldn't completely shut Jordan down, but I'm pretty sure that he could outperform whoever the Bulls threw at Hakeem.

Jordan leaves for two years to play baseball, the Rockets win the championship. Jordan comes back and the Rockets don't win the championship anymore.

Just saying..........

houstonspartan

12-16-2009, 03:43 PM

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

Actually, he was suspended for two years for massive gambling issues and it was covered up, but that's another can of worms...

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 03:45 PM

I'm right there with ya, brah. I'm just not as much of a fossil as you. It'll only be 40 years for me in 2010.
Sure. Kick a dog when he's down! Rub that salt in the wounds.... :aggressive:

C'mon man. The Comets won 4 Championships and The Dynamo 2.

Ok, so the Comets no longer exist, the WNBA appears to be following their lead, and the Dynamo might move again if the new stadium falls through. Still, we have those cherished memories of Sheryl Swoopes and Cynthia Cooper guiding us to immortality. Brian Ching is a legend in these parts, right?

Man, I just depressed myself beyond belief. I may just have to look into some Pacific island real estate near you.

I'll still root for Houston teams though. I just can't help myself.

Thanks for that cheery little post, Dan!!

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

Jordan was in the league during one of the Championships, but nice!! That's what I really needed to hear was about the old * next to the Rockets Championships.

Is it time to get drunk yet? Because between y'alls posts, I'm pretty depressed right now... Thanks guys!!

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 03:50 PM

Jordan leaves for two years to play baseball, the Rockets win the championship. Jordan comes back and the Rockets don't win the championship anymore.

Just saying..........

He played in the 94-95 season for the Bulls.

Thorn

12-16-2009, 03:52 PM

He played in the 94-95 season for the Bulls.

That not how I remember it. But then, a lot of things aren't how I remember them these days.

Nevermind. LOL

badboy

12-16-2009, 03:54 PM

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:Competitive bikini watching!

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 03:57 PM

That not how I remember it. But then, a lot of things aren't how I remember them these days.

Nevermind. LOL

He played that season.... But it was only for about 17 games. He came back right before the playoffs started that year. The Bulls and Jordan lost to Orlando in 6 games.

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 03:57 PM

Competitive bikini watching!

Awesome!!

mussop

12-16-2009, 04:09 PM

I would be very happy if we could replace Kubiak with Gruden (though, I don't think he's coaching until 2012 at the earliest). I'd be optimistic replacing him with Cowher or Schottenheimer. I'd be ok with with replacing him with Holmgren, but as I understand it, Holmgren doesn't want to coach, he wants to run the organization.

I would be interested in looking at Jim Harbaugh (though college coaches scare me too), and I'm sure there's a few other names that after evaluation might cause me to think it's a positive move.

However, I think that replacing Kubiak with Shannahan or a rookie head coach has much more potential for negative results than positive at this point. Kubiak isn't a success, but he's not a buffoon either. The chances of a rookie head coach is much greater at buffoonery than success.

Has McNair given any indication that he's any good at hiring coaches/GMs? I suppose you could argue he got better at it this time, and next time he'll get it right, but I'm not sold.

But all in all, I'm almost always against change for change sake. Getting rid of Kubiak is completely dependent on who replaces him.

I havent seen anyone one side or the other say any different. There are plenty of good choices out there that have a better resume than Kubiak. I think what we all want is a HC that is a proven leader that is capable of making adjustments and doesnt make the same mistakes over and over again.

mussop

12-16-2009, 04:11 PM

And if Michael Jordan hadn't left the Bulls to play baseball, the Rockets wouldn't have those two championships.

Agree! No one was going to beat a team with MJ on it.

The refs/NBA wouldnt allow it.

Double Barrel

12-16-2009, 05:25 PM

I have read this thread with increasing disgust. I came across Grams post and thought that she was the only one saying what I was thinking.

Why would you pick out this one line and dump on her?

I prefer to pick out the bolded part and applaud her.

I didn't know Grams was female. :)

Huh? - dude is sporting three Super Bowl rings - one as QB coach and two as OC.

You make a great case for Kubiak as an assistance coach. :ok:

I consider a win over a division leader a big game, but that's me.

Especially when it's the only division win we'll get this year! :clap:

Dude, 42 years... 42 freakin years and all I've seen were a couple of championships by the Rockets (which was 15 years ago), and 1 WS appearance. Screw it, I'm moving to Maui. :lion:

Damn, man...you're making me depressed to be a lifelong Houstonian now. My pancreas might just have to endure a drinking binge as a result! :barman:

spurstexanstros

12-16-2009, 05:29 PM

Agree! No one was going to beat a team with MJ on it.

I would have liked to see 98 Bulls vs 99 Spurs
Spurs in 6

powerfuldragon

12-16-2009, 05:31 PM

Agree! No one was going to beat a team with MJ on it.

everyone knows toni kukoc was the heart and soul of that team.

Texan_Bill

12-16-2009, 05:38 PM

He played that season.... But it was only for about 17 games. He came back right before the playoffs started that year. The Bulls and Jordan lost to Orlando in 6 games.

Not sayin', just sayin'!

Damn, man...you're making me depressed to be a lifelong Houstonian now. My pancreas might just have to endure a drinking binge as a result! :barman:

Sorry man. I had to purge a little of the frustration that is being a Houston sports fan.

Grams

12-16-2009, 05:44 PM

I didn't know Grams was female. :)

Yup she is. Grams short for Grandma.

Thorn

12-16-2009, 05:47 PM

And The Kubinator stretches his lead to 7 points..........

Double Barrel

12-16-2009, 05:48 PM

Sorry man. I had to purge a little of the frustration that is being a Houston sports fan.

nah, we're birds of a feather. Being a Houston sports fan is just one of those things that you have to live to understand.

Yup she is. Grams short for Grandma.

Nice. I have always appreciated your perspectives and takes, so now it all makes sense! You deal with grandkids, which isn't so much different than dealing with forum members sometimes. ;)

Grams

12-16-2009, 05:54 PM

nah, we're birds of a feather. Being a Houston sports fan is just one of those things that you have to live to understand.

Nice. I have always appreciated your perspectives and takes, so now it all makes sense! You deal with grandkids, which isn't so much different than dealing with forum members sometimes. ;)

Thank you.

OzzO

12-16-2009, 08:24 PM

Well, for me - if it's possible - I'm still on the fence. I just can't commit to one side or the other, at least till the season's over. It was posted earlier, to not replace for the sake of replacing (which I think everyone agrees with) but that the replacement must have a proven track record (as an HC is probably a better specific) and not a noob.

I was thinking, I wondered how our two coaches have done in their Texans career v. the AFC South.

If he does get his last year of the contract, it'll defintely be more than the "playoffs or bust" everyone from McNair to the fans were chanting - it'll be the "put up or shut up".

This year v. the AFC East was supposed to be the year. Not that the NFC East next year is THAT much better, but I think it'll be just a little more of a challenge to add to the 6 games already in the AFC South.

Joe Texan

12-16-2009, 08:39 PM

I will go on the record to yell put up or shut up next year. I think we have all the pieces and will add some and will dominate next year but if we all use the "pink Soap" then we will be 3 more years till we do anything.
That being said if Kubiak comes out next year and pushes us to the playoffs then does he stay longer or does he take a bath with the soap droppers.

OzzO

12-16-2009, 08:44 PM

Not sure if that question was for me, but personally - it HAS to be playoffs next year. I think making it will get a possible extension - but winning at least one will quell all nay sayers much more. I'm thinking the Texans will have to take it at least one deeper into the playoffs since this year was the "sneak into to the playoffs"

If playoffs are missed, then it'd better be at least a 10-6 season to have that "possible extension" mentioned earlier. I don't think 9-7 and a winning season will cut it next year.

thunderkyss

12-16-2009, 09:31 PM

Then, Kubiak came in and didn't he say something to the affect of building a team to take down Peyton and the colts?

I still believe this team is the team built to take down the Colts. & we will. It just didn't happen this year.

This year, I think is the first year we got our guys playing good football. They just need to learn to put it together for 4 quarters.

I think that will happen next year.

Then we'll dominate.

GP

12-16-2009, 10:12 PM

I disagree about retaining Bush and Kyle. I don't think it'd work for many experienced HC. Then you have the job looking like offers from Dallas and the Raiders. I think Bush has done a decent job, but Kyle hasn't done anything to impress me that he should be an OC in this league yet.

I don't know if he's play calling or Kubiak, but either way things like picking HB throws(by Chris Brown) when you need to score doesn't strike me as something most OC would call for.

I think its also a fallacy of logic to believe that getting a new HC(especially a rookie one) means we'll have to have rookie coordinators as well.

You do understand that (a) Kubiak officially handed off playcalling duties to Kyle at the end of last season, (b) it was lauded and celebrated in the manner of "Kubiak is all grown up, he's handed off the playcalling duties, and this year (2009) he's going to be a big boy head coach," and (c) early on in THIS season it has been on record that Kubiak has taken playcalling duties BACK from Kyle.

Kubiak has stuck his nose right back into the playbook on gameday.

He's panicking, and he's trying to save himself.

Kyle hasn't done anything because Gary Kubiak let him have the reins for all of about 1 game in 2009.

Gary Kubiak has got all of you guys whipped. LOL.

Carr Bombed

12-16-2009, 10:14 PM

I will go on the record to yell put up or shut up next year. I think we have all the pieces and will add some and will dominate next year but if we all use the "pink Soap" then we will be 3 more years till we do anything.
That being said if Kubiak comes out next year and pushes us to the playoffs then does he stay longer or does he take a bath with the soap droppers.

So when you see soap, the first thing that pops in your head is "prison rape"? Hmm.....that says more about you than anybody else here, or are you rehashing past experiences here or what? :backsout:

Anyways now that we've waded through your sick fantasies, why on earth would it take another coach 3 years to get this team where everybody wants them to go? (which lets be honest here, the bar isn't set very high. We're asking for a winning season, a playoff appearance, and god forbid...maybe even some good divisional wins). Even you yourself said you would call for Kubiak's head if he doesn't get us over the hump next year, so maybe other people are just ahead of the curve here.... oh yeah, that's right....we can't be, because we aren't "true fans" and we don't cheer loud enough. I mean that's the reason why this team can't win more than 8 games right, the home crowd leaves too early. :gun: Keep shaking those pom poms, it's bound to make Kubiak smarter one day. Every time a cowbell rings, a wanna-be head coach gets his wings.

GP

12-16-2009, 10:27 PM

It's pretty funny to see how Jeff Fisher is proof that Gary Kubiak can get it done in year 5 (and beyond!).

When I put those two guys side-by-side, the difference in GAMEDAY coaching is hilarious.

Gary has gotten his ass kicked by his divisional opponents. He's a joke. His opposing divisional coaches hope that Kubiak stays the coach for a long, long time. Kubiak is good medicine for their ailing teams.

Does the Keep Hope Alive! tour have an official theme song yet?

I suggest this gem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8arvEzHsA8

:brando:

houstonspartan

12-16-2009, 10:54 PM

You do understand that (a) Kubiak officially handed off playcalling duties to Kyle at the end of last season, (b) it was lauded and celebrated in the manner of "Kubiak is all grown up, he's handed off the playcalling duties, and this year (2009) he's going to be a big boy head coach," and (c) early on in THIS season it has been on record that Kubiak has taken playcalling duties BACK from Kyle.

Kubiak has stuck his nose right back into the playbook on gameday.

He's panicking, and he's trying to save himself.

Kyle hasn't done anything because Gary Kubiak let him have the reins for all of about 1 game in 2009.

Gary Kubiak has got all of you guys whipped. LOL.

Not me, bro. I was impressed late last year when Kyle got playcalling, because I THOUGHT Gary would grow up. It actually made me renew my season tickets. But, it was clear early on that he did not.

DexmanC

12-16-2009, 11:19 PM

Not me, bro. I was impressed late last year when Kyle got playcalling, because I THOUGHT Gary would grow up. It actually made me renew my season tickets. But, it was clear early on that he did not.

Kyle got shut out, and Kubes had to take his Denny's menu back.
:chef:

houstonspartan

12-17-2009, 12:28 AM

Good lord. John McClain wrote a column about how Andre has flourished under Kubiak (which is bs), and people on other message boards are jumping on board, agreeing with him.

You have got to be kidding me. Andre has been a baller since the day he moved to Houston, and, suddenly, Kubiak created him????

No words.

Carr Bombed

12-17-2009, 12:51 AM

Good lord. John McClain wrote a column about how Andre has flourished under Kubiak (which is bs), and people on other message boards are jumping on board, agreeing with him.

You have got to be kidding me. Andre has been a baller since the day he moved to Houston, and, suddenly, Kubiak created him????

No words.

Andre has flourished with Matt Schaub, you know a QB who can progress through his reads and actually passes downfield. Andre would put up great #s in any offensive system worth a damn. :rolleyes:

I will give Kubiak props here though........He does do a GREAT JOB at moving Andre around, but I'm sure most offensive minds would be able to do much of the same with a elite WO.

DerekLee1

12-17-2009, 02:42 AM

Frank Bush, in just his first year as our d-coord, is out-coaching Gary Kubiak's offense when it comes down to gameday strategy AND the implementation of the strategy.

I never dreamed the defense would garner my praise, and the offense would fail me so badly. But it is what it is.

David Carr hit his ceiling once defenses knew to throw exotic blitzes and stack 10 guys in the box as if they were blitzing all 10 of them and running only one safety back to cover our 4 receivers. Result: Drop back to a zone and either pick off the pass as David stumbled over himself in the face of a phantom blitz, or watch David run out of bounds and eat a needless sack.

Kubiak is also hitting that ceiling, TK.

You can see it. You don't want to see it, but it's there.

I agree with most of your post. Frank Bush's defense, past the first three games, has been pretty spectacular. However, I have to cut the offense some slack because of injuries. OD was a huge loss to this offense, and has taken them several games to adjust. Add to that the OL injuries, and the fact that they have still been outstanding, and I'd say you have to give this staff another year. I keep going back and forth on whether or not to keep Kubiak, but I think injuries considered, he needs one more season. I think he has the potential to be a top tier HC, but he needs to learn from his mistakes as Belichick did. I just hope he does it as OUR head coach, and not with another team.

sometexansfan

12-17-2009, 03:23 AM

Jordan leaves for two years to play baseball, the Rockets win the championship. Jordan comes back and the Rockets don't win the championship anymore.

Just saying..........

That's because we couldn't get past Utah in the Western Conference finals.

OzzO

12-17-2009, 07:27 AM

I still believe this team is the team built to take down the Colts. & we will. It just didn't happen this year.

This year, I think is the first year we got our guys playing good football. They just need to learn to put it together for 4 quarters.

I think that will happen next year.

Then we'll dominate.

Unfortunately, I think that's been the battle cry for some time. Kubiak started out well in the division at 3-3. What's happened since then? (Question not necessarily directed at you.)

Capers did just about the same division record in the same amount of time with, what I think we can all agree, less quality players.

GP

12-17-2009, 08:45 AM

Not me, bro. I was impressed late last year when Kyle got playcalling, because I THOUGHT Gary would grow up. It actually made me renew my season tickets. But, it was clear early on that he did not.

I thought the playcalling was better late in the season last year, too.

But we started off with a whimper against the Jets and POOF! back to the old way of doing things. Which is sad, because the whole t-e-a-m looked shell-shocked out there. Not just the offense.

WWJD

12-17-2009, 08:54 AM

I still believe this team is the team built to take down the Colts. & we will. It just didn't happen this year.

This year, I think is the first year we got our guys playing good football. They just need to learn to put it together for 4 quarters.

Folks, it's not so much the fact that we've had 4 seasons of mediocrity with Kubiak, but more in HOW we've gone about those 4 seasons WITH the talent we have. Suffice it to say that after 4 seasons we still don't utilize our talent effectively and we don't manage games well.

mussop

12-17-2009, 12:28 PM

I still believe this team is the team built to take down the Colts.

Seems more like a team that is built to mirror the Colts to me. Only we dont have a Manning at QB.

If you want to build a team to beat the Colts you needs a power running game to eat up the clock and keep the ball away from Manning and a defense that can get after the QB. We have neither.

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 01:07 PM

What some people don't understand about seeing poor abilities in a coach is how we lose. It's the melt downs, it's the horrible game managing, it's the "quit" that I've seen in Gary in years one and two when he would run the ball on 3rd and 12 towards the end of the game when we were still in it to where we would be handing a game over, it's the inability to search for another kicker, it's the consistent stubborness of sticking with Chris BRown at RB no matter how awful the guy is.

I just can't trust the guy. Not at all. It seems like many fans have the bar set so low for expectations that they don't know what success is. It's not about just having a coach that can get you into the playoffs. It's about having a HC that can consistently get there and find ways to win as well in the playoffs. If Gary stays, what good will it be if he gets to the playoffs finally and then has these same coaching blunders where we could have won, and he mismanages a game like he so frequently does or stubbornly sticks with a bad player that ends up killing us in a playoff game. I just can't trust this guy as a HC. I can't feel confidence in this guy because he consistently shows me that he doesn't learn from past mistakes. He'll repeat them over and over. That is the only thing that I can trust about him, is that he'll do something to damage the team's chances of winning a game by having the wrong RB in there, or forgetting to call a timeout at the right time, or calling a HB pass play at a horrible time with the worse guy to do it. Even if Gary could get us in the playoffs, he isn't the kind of coach that could win in the post season. He struggles to get past 8-8 and constantly loses the big divisional games that mean a lot.

DexmanC

12-17-2009, 02:41 PM

What some people don't understand about seeing poor abilities in a coach is how we lose. It's the melt downs, it's the horrible game managing, it's the "quit" that I've seen in Gary in years one and two when he would run the ball on 3rd and 12 towards the end of the game when we were still in it to where we would be handing a game over, it's the inability to search for another kicker, it's the consistent stubborness of sticking with Chris BRown at RB no matter how awful the guy is.

I just can't trust the guy. Not at all. It seems like many fans have the bar set so low for expectations that they don't know what success is. It's not about just having a coach that can get you into the playoffs. It's about having a HC that can consistently get there and find ways to win as well in the playoffs. If Gary stays, what good will it be if he gets to the playoffs finally and then has these same coaching blunders where we could have won, and he mismanages a game like he so frequently does or stubbornly sticks with a bad player that ends up killing us in a playoff game. I just can't trust this guy as a HC. I can't feel confidence in this guy because he consistently shows me that he doesn't learn from past mistakes. He'll repeat them over and over. That is the only thing that I can trust about him, is that he'll do something to damage the team's chances of winning a game by having the wrong RB in there, or forgetting to call a timeout at the right time, or calling a HB pass play at a horrible time with the worse guy to do it. Even if Gary could get us in the playoffs, he isn't the kind of coach that could win in the post season. He struggles to get past 8-8 and constantly loses the big divisional games that mean a lot.

Co-sign. It took me awhile to see the same thing. Gary's a good guy, and
it's hard not to like him. Bum Phillips praises him, and Mcclain preaches
what Bum says on the radio like Gospel. However, I see now that if
Capers can get 7-9 with the crap he had, Kubiak has had an embarrassment
of riches in talent compared to the old regime, and the best we can do
is STRUGGLE to REACH 8-8.

I'm all "one-more-year'd" out.

beerlover

12-17-2009, 02:55 PM

What some people don't understand about seeing poor abilities in a coach is how we lose. It's the melt downs, it's the horrible game managing, it's the "quit" that I've seen in Gary in years one and two when he would run the ball on 3rd and 12 towards the end of the game when we were still in it to where we would be handing a game over, it's the inability to search for another kicker, it's the consistent stubborness of sticking with Chris BRown at RB no matter how awful the guy is.

I just can't trust the guy. Not at all. It seems like many fans have the bar set so low for expectations that they don't know what success is. It's not about just having a coach that can get you into the playoffs. It's about having a HC that can consistently get there and find ways to win as well in the playoffs. If Gary stays, what good will it be if he gets to the playoffs finally and then has these same coaching blunders where we could have won, and he mismanages a game like he so frequently does or stubbornly sticks with a bad player that ends up killing us in a playoff game. I just can't trust this guy as a HC. I can't feel confidence in this guy because he consistently shows me that he doesn't learn from past mistakes. He'll repeat them over and over. That is the only thing that I can trust about him, is that he'll do something to damage the team's chances of winning a game by having the wrong RB in there, or forgetting to call a timeout at the right time, or calling a HB pass play at a horrible time with the worse guy to do it. Even if Gary could get us in the playoffs, he isn't the kind of coach that could win in the post season. He struggles to get past 8-8 and constantly loses the big divisional games that mean a lot.

excellent explanation of your skeptical prognosis in regards to Coach Kubiak. this is what happens when you build your franchise using first time coaches & managers, but I'll take the accepted risk moving forward, much better to me than some washed up retread :ant:

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 03:05 PM

excellent explanation of your skeptical prognosis in regards to Coach Kubiak. this is what happens when you build your franchise using first time coaches & managers, but I'll take the accepted risk moving forward, much better to me than some washed up retread :ant:

Well this is what really worries me in the long run. What if Kubes made it to the post season this year or somehow gets there next year? What will his followers and Mcnair be saying to themselves? They'll be acting like they knew it all along and that Kubes somehow redeemed himself and proved everyone wrong since he finally made it to the playoffs. Then Kubes will get this great extension and to many fans with such low expectations, they'll think the guy is even more of a GOD just because he got to the playoffs finally. But then when we're matched up against some great team like the Colts or the Pats and play a great game where we can win it, and Kubes makes one of these horrible calls or plays not to lose where we fall short, then you're kicking yourself saying good god if only we had a better coach, but since ole Gary finally got into the playoffs people will be saying "wait until next year" because now Gary will be playoff tested and will be a better post season HC. Now he's been in that situation and that environment and he'll know better. :gun:

I think a lot of people have this view now that once the Texans are in the playoffs that it will be like a SB for us, since we've been so bad and since it's been 8 long years now. But then you've got the problem of wondering can this HC be a big time great HC that can not only get to the post season, BUT IS HE A GUY THAT CAN WIN IN THE POST SEASON and not just the regular season? There have been many coaches that have failed in this regard and there have been a lot of poor coaches that had good talent and got to the post season on talent alone, but really weren't the greatest of HC's.

I just think the expectations have been set so low now days for this franchise by a lot of fans and the owner as well, and it's going to be really really hard to ever shake that stigma away at this point.

Goldensilence

12-17-2009, 03:12 PM

Well this is what really worries me in the long run. What if Kubes made it to the post season this year or somehow gets there next year? What will his followers and Mcnair be saying to themselves? They'll be acting like they knew it all along and that Kubes somehow redeemed himself and proved everyone wrong since he finally made it to the playoffs. Then Kubes will get this great extension and to many fans with such low expectations, they'll think the guy is even more of a GOD just because he got to the playoffs finally. But then when we're matched up against some great team like the Colts or the Pats and play a great game where we can win it, and Kubes makes one of these horrible calls or plays not to lose where we fall short, then you're kicking yourself saying good god if only we had a better coach, but since ole Gary finally got into the playoffs people will be saying "wait until next year" because now Gary will be playoff tested and will be a better post season HC. Now he's been in that situation and that environment and he'll know better. :gun:

I think a lot of people have this view now that once the Texans are in the playoffs that it will be like a SB for us, since we've been so bad and since it's been 8 long years now. But then you've got the problem of wondering can this HC be a big time great HC that can not only get to the post season, BUT IS HE A GUY THAT CAN WIN IN THE POST SEASON and not just the regular season? There have been many coaches that have failed in this regard and there have been a lot of poor coaches that had good talent and got to the post season on talent alone, but really weren't the greatest of HC's.

I just think the expectations have been set so low now days for this franchise by a lot of fans and the owner as well, and it's going to be really really hard to ever shake that stigma away at this point.

Rep'd....can't spread yada yada.

I guess I'm at the point of wondering if he can win big during the REGULAR SEASON.

I agree on how low the bar is set here. I think I've scaffolded my expectations with Gary here. You know ok with what he did the first year, was pleased with the first 8-8 season, despite some question marks (Browns loss anyone?). Next year was a race to get back to 8-8 and looked like with some staff changes and the weak schedule this year the bar should've been raised to playoffs or bust.

I don't think that's outrageous as some suggest.

DexmanC

12-17-2009, 03:21 PM

Well this is what really worries me in the long run. What if Kubes made it to the post season this year or somehow gets there next year? What will his followers and Mcnair be saying to themselves? They'll be acting like they knew it all along and that Kubes somehow redeemed himself and proved everyone wrong since he finally made it to the playoffs. Then Kubes will get this great extension and to many fans with such low expectations, they'll think the guy is even more of a GOD just because he got to the playoffs finally. But then when we're matched up against some great team like the Colts or the Pats and play a great game where we can win it, and Kubes makes one of these horrible calls or plays not to lose where we fall short, then you're kicking yourself saying good god if only we had a better coach, but since ole Gary finally got into the playoffs people will be saying "wait until next year" because now Gary will be playoff tested and will be a better post season HC. Now he's been in that situation and that environment and he'll know better. :gun:

I think a lot of people have this view now that once the Texans are in the playoffs that it will be like a SB for us, since we've been so bad and since it's been 8 long years now. But then you've got the problem of wondering can this HC be a big time great HC that can not only get to the post season, BUT IS HE A GUY THAT CAN WIN IN THE POST SEASON and not just the regular season? There have been many coaches that have failed in this regard and there have been a lot of poor coaches that had good talent and got to the post season on talent alone, but really weren't the greatest of HC's.

I just think the expectations have been set so low now days for this franchise by a lot of fans and the owner as well, and it's going to be really really hard to ever shake that stigma away at this point.

It's just like the virgin who falls in love with their "first." After a while,
you'll discover what you've been feenin' over so long ain't all that special.

Ryan

12-17-2009, 03:35 PM

I'm starting to become a member of the "Keep Kubiak" campaign for another year, but i'm keeping the pink soap because Kubiak always wins when he's trule desperate for one and all year next year will be a desperate situation if he makes it to next season.

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 03:36 PM

It's just like the virgin who falls in love with their "first." After a while,
you'll discover what you've been feenin' over so long ain't all that special.

Well I sort of felt the same way about Jack Pardee. Never liked the guy at all. He always seemed to passive and soft and didn't have that mentality of imposing his team's will against the opposition to make them want to quit. The Oilers had so much talent though and they could easily squeak themselves into the playoffs. Those Oilers teams were stacked. Even with Pardee I felt that we could reach a SB though, because we were that talented. However I was proven wrong by the worst playoff loss in the history of the NFL. Coaching in the post season is an entirely different animal than it is in the regular season. You've got to have a HC that knows how to "sieze the moment" and make his players sieze the moment and really ride that momentum or take the other team's momentum away and again "make them quit and lose all their confidence."

If I see a HC make as many mistakes as I've seen Gary make over and over that has killed as many games as it has over the last two seasons, then I can only wonder what he would or wouldn't do in a tight post season game that could break the hearts of fans where we would lose a game we should have won. Look at how angry you get now when these games get blown, just imagine how distraught you would feel if this happened in the playoff game? I don't ever want to get that feeling again. I've had it before, and it's awful. I had to take a nice long break from football after that loss to the Bills because I was way to emotionally invested in the Oilers at the time and that loss still haunts me until this day.

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 03:50 PM

I'm starting to become a member of the "Keep Kubiak" campaign for another year, but i'm keeping the pink soap because Kubiak always wins when he's trule desperate for one and all year next year will be a desperate situation if he makes it to next season.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how any of that makes any sense. I don't understand the logic behind that? You think that he does real well at coaching and can win when he's truly desperate, but don't you ask yourself the question of why he did he have to get into a "desperate" situation in the first place? Does a good HC consistently find himself in a desperate situation? And I don't see how next season would be any more of a desperate situation than what this season was when he was somewhat on the hot seat this year and being in year 4 without a post season visit usually gets most coaches fired. I really don't see how next season's situation would be any different than this season. And going back to the desperate situation, obviously those wins you're talking about that he gets when he's desperate for them are still meaningless wins that don't get us into the playoffs and don't really matter. I just don't see why you would want to keep Kubiak based off of what you just said.

beerlover

12-17-2009, 03:52 PM

not low expectations, realistic expectations.

Gary is a players coach, they are the ones who make plays not coaches. why can't they execute a simple gameplan? if you beleive adversity builds character then the wait will be worth it, if you don't then feel free to unhitch your little red wagon to the next caravan coming along :truck:

houstonspartan

12-17-2009, 03:55 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how any of that makes any sense. I don't understand the logic behind that? You think that he does real well at coaching and can win when he's truly desperate, but don't you ask yourself the question of why he did he have to get into a "desperate" situation in the first place? Does a good HC consistently find himself in a desperate situation? And I don't see how next season would be any more of a desperate situation than what this season was when he was somewhat on the hot seat this year and being in year 4 without a post season visit usually gets most coaches fired. I really don't see how next season's situation would be any different than this season. And going back to the desperate situation, obviously those wins you're talking about that he gets when he's desperate for them are still meaningless wins that don't get us into the playoffs and don't really matter. I just don't see why you would want to keep Kubiak based off of what you just said.

Tex, it's like you're reading my mind. Someone said the other day, "Yeah, Kubiak is a bad coach, and he can't win games when it counts, but I think we should bring him back."

It.Made.No.Sense.

I asked that person to explain further and he kind of hemmed and hawed and didn't really say anything.

You want to talk about pressure? If Kubiak returns next year he may want to think about hiring a bodyguard and keeping a shrink around, because if he comes out struggling, his life will be HELL. That haggard, beat down look he had after the four division losses will be nothing compared to what he will go through if they start slow next year.

JB

12-17-2009, 03:59 PM

It keeps going and going and going...

Thorn

12-17-2009, 04:00 PM

I think the only way Kubiak is NOT the coach next year is he loses the next three games. I truly believe we'll have one more year of Kubiak because we will win at least two of the next three. Some will like that, some won't, but I believe it's what's coming.

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 04:00 PM

not low expectations, realistic expectations.

So are you saying that the Texans never had any chance at making the playoffs this year?

Gary is a players coach, they are the ones who make plays not coaches. why can't they execute a simple gameplan?

Maybe because the right players aren't always in the game to make those plays? Maybe because the players that Gary chooses to be out there aren't prepared enough for those situations? The Texans have executed a simple game plan in many games actually where one or two players made bone headed plays or screwed themselves and the team. But for the most part the players executed a simple game plan and the coach made some bad calls on personel and what play to call at the right time.

And another reason why they maybe can't execute a simple game plan is because they don't want to badly enough and the other team wants to execute "their gameplan" a little more than our players do. That's also where coaching comes in. Your hC has to be able to make players want it more than the other team each week. Gary has never been good at that. It's been one of his worst inefficiencies as a HC is how his players never seem to play with a sense of urgency.

if you beleive adversity builds character then the wait will be worth it, if you don't then feel free to unhitch your little red wagon to the next caravan coming along :truck:

This part right here is saying absolutely nothing.

HOU-TEX

12-17-2009, 04:05 PM

It keeps going and going and going...

Exactly, it seems a couple of posters might think they haven't made their point clear enough when it's quite obvious they have.

I guess I better get used to it, cuz I reckon it'll be beat to death over the off season all over again.

Maybe we'll get lucky and have a Favre watch again

:deadhorse

Thorn

12-17-2009, 04:08 PM

Maybe we'll get lucky and have a Favre watch again

:deadhorse

Maybe the Texans sign Farve to replace Rexxy Baby. LOL

Ryan

12-17-2009, 04:14 PM

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how any of that makes any sense. I don't understand the logic behind that? You think that he does real well at coaching and can win when he's truly desperate, but don't you ask yourself the question of why he did he have to get into a "desperate" situation in the first place? Does a good HC consistently find himself in a desperate situation? And I don't see how next season would be any more of a desperate situation than what this season was when he was somewhat on the hot seat this year and being in year 4 without a post season visit usually gets most coaches fired. I really don't see how next season's situation would be any different than this season. And going back to the desperate situation, obviously those wins you're talking about that he gets when he's desperate for them are still meaningless wins that don't get us into the playoffs and don't really matter. I just don't see why you would want to keep Kubiak based off of what you just said.

Basically it's my way of dealing with this situation. We all know Bobby is not going to fire Kubiak, and i think he gets another year whether we lose the rest of our games or not. And it's clearly obvious that most of the players want to keep him, and the last thing i want is disgruntled players because their coach left, and then they might want out as well. It really is a mess of a situation, and for now we better get used to seeing the Denny's menu for at least another year.

Mr. White

12-17-2009, 04:26 PM

Basically it's my way of dealing with this situation. We all know Bobby is not going to fire Kubiak, and i think he gets another year whether we lose the rest of our games or not. And it's clearly obvious that most of the players want to keep him, and the last thing i want is disgruntled players because their coach left, and then they might want out as well. It really is a mess of a situation, and for now we better get used to seeing the Denny's menu for at least another year.

That's about the size of it.

This is 2006 all over again. Back then McNair had a man-crush on David Carr.

Now, he's got a man-crush on Kubiak. The guy gets 90 minutes of McNair's time every Monday and apparently he's used that time pretty well to sell his skills as a head coach to him.

I guess being a nice guy is more important in McNair's book than being effective at your job. Reality will smack him with Kubiak just like it did with Carr.

The only choice we have in the matter is how much we spend.

beerlover

12-17-2009, 04:30 PM

So are you saying that the Texans never had any chance at making the playoffs this year?

everybody has a chance, just not everybody can make it.

Maybe because the right players aren't always in the game to make those plays? Maybe because the players that Gary chooses to be out there aren't prepared enough for those situations? The Texans have executed a simple game plan in many games actually where one or two players made bone headed plays or screwed themselves and the team. But for the most part the players executed a simple game plan and the coach made some bad calls on personel and what play to call at the right time.

Can't defend some of his decisions & he knows he did wrong the difference between me & you is I beleive he is learning how to win in these situations you on the other hand believe he cannot.

And another reason why they maybe can't execute a simple game plan is because they don't want to badly enough and the other team wants to execute "their gameplan" a little more than our players do. That's also where coaching comes in. Your hC has to be able to make players want it more than the other team each week. Gary has never been good at that. It's been one of his worst inefficiencies as a HC is how his players never seem to play with a sense of urgency.

you must be a sports motivational speaker who can see right through to the crux of the problem & read the players minds. I can't touch that, good luck with your next set of players & coaches so far it would seem you have nothing but negative expereinces.

This part right here is saying absolutely nothing. I'm looking for a smiley bandwagoner just for you :pursefight:

houstonspartan

12-17-2009, 04:39 PM

Basically it's my way of dealing with this situation. We all know Bobby is not going to fire Kubiak, and i think he gets another year whether we lose the rest of our games or not. And it's clearly obvious that most of the players want to keep him, and the last thing i want is disgruntled players because their coach left, and then they might want out as well. It really is a mess of a situation, and for now we better get used to seeing the Denny's menu for at least another year.

Don't underestimate "Bobby." He is no fool. He said late last year that 8-8 wasn't good enough, and he said it several times during the pre-season. If we go 8-8, he may pull the plug.

I just got a call from the Texans asking me how things were going with my season tickets. Naturally, I told them I wasn't pleased with the team and was really disappointed and, for the first time, am seriously not renewing. She apologized. She then told me that they've gotten a lot of calls saying the same thing, and all the calls are and complaints are noted.

I asked if the comments ever make it to the big bosses, and she said yes, because they like to know what their ticket holders are thinking (because we pay the bills (my words, not hers) ).

"Bobby" is no fool. He knows he has a PISSED OFF fanbase on his hands. This is probably the angriest we've ever been, and he probably knows the next move is important.

Thorn

12-17-2009, 04:43 PM

Don't underestimate "Bobby." He is no fool. He said late last year that 8-8 wasn't good enough, and he said it several times during the pre-season. If we go 8-8, he may pull the plug.

I just got a call from the Texans asking me how things were going with my season tickets. Naturally, I told them I wasn't pleased with the team and was really disappointed and, for the first time, am seriously not renewing. She apologized. She then told me that they've gotten a lot of calls saying the same thing, and all the calls are and complaints are noted.

I asked if the comments ever make it to the big bosses, and she said yes, because they like to know what their ticket holders are thinking (because we pay the bills (my words, not hers) ).

"Bobby" is no fool. He knows he has a PISSED OFF fanbase on his hands. This is probably the angriest we've ever been, and he probably knows the next move is important.

If he replaces Kubiak, fine, if he doesn't, fine. What I DO NOT want to see is another newbie head coach. My poor old aging heart just can't take that again.

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 04:46 PM

I'm looking for a smiley bandwagoner just for you :pursefight:

Band wagoner? Because I don't have the optimism that you do for a coach that hasn't gone over 8-8 in 4 years? That's the only drivel you can come up with as a response?

:clap: for you! You're a Joe Texan clone now.

beerlover

12-17-2009, 04:53 PM

Band wagoner? Because I don't have the optimism that you do for a coach that hasn't gone over 8-8 in 4 years? That's the only drivel you can come up with as a response?

:clap: for you! You're a Joe Texan clone now.

thank you. Joe Texan is a great fan to be included along side him is an honor.

HJam72

12-17-2009, 05:21 PM

Fire him. It will make me feel better. :voodoo:

Pantherstang84

12-17-2009, 05:38 PM

Exactly, it seems a couple of posters might think they haven't made their point clear enough when it's quite obvious they have.

I guess I better get used to it, cuz I reckon it'll be beat to death over the off season all over again.

Maybe we'll get lucky and have a Favre watch again

:deadhorse

Or better yet, as the Romo turns.

ObsiWan

12-17-2009, 05:40 PM

Wow. I thought the "Fire Him" contigent would win this by a landslide.
...not that I'm disappointed. I still think the close losses are on the players. The coaches put them in position to win but at the critical times the players didn't "answer the bell". Missed kicks, fumbles, no O-line push when we needed a yard, pick sixes... I doubt seriously that the coaching staff promotes those things in practice.

Texan_Bill

12-17-2009, 05:47 PM

Exactly, it seems a couple of posters might think they haven't made their point clear enough when it's quite obvious they have.

I guess I better get used to it, cuz I reckon it'll be beat to death over the off season all over again.

Maybe we'll get lucky and have a Favre watch again

:deadhorse

:thinking: *wonders which "couple of posters might think they haven't made their point clear enough"*

Double Barrel

12-17-2009, 06:34 PM

Wow. I thought the "Fire Him" contigent would win this by a landslide....not that I'm disappointed. I still think the close losses are on the players. The coaches put them in position to win but at the critical times the players didn't "answer the bell". Missed kicks, fumbles, no O-line push when we needed a yard, pick sixes... I doubt seriously that the coaching staff promotes those things in practice.

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different. ;)

http://rotntees.com/images/smileybullethole.jpg

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

Thorn

12-17-2009, 06:39 PM

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different. ;)

http://rotntees.com/images/smileybullethole.jpg

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

QFT. Good post there, DB. :)

Texecutioner

12-17-2009, 06:50 PM

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different. ;)

http://rotntees.com/images/smileybullethole.jpg

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

This is 2006 all over again. Back then McNair had a man-crush on David Carr.

Now, he's got a man-crush on Kubiak. The guy gets 90 minutes of McNair's time every Monday and apparently he's used that time pretty well to sell his skills as a head coach to him.

I guess being a nice guy is more important in McNair's book than being effective at your job. Reality will smack him with Kubiak just like it did with Carr.

The only choice we have in the matter is how much we spend.

i hear that, but you think at some point McNair is going to get sick and tired of having the losing horse on most Sundays. How many heartbreaking losses does he have to force the Bushes to sit through on Sundays before he starts trying to compete for a championship and not just 8-8.

thunderkyss

12-17-2009, 09:57 PM

If he replaces Kubiak, fine, if he doesn't, fine. What I DO NOT want to see is another newbie head coach. My poor old aging heart just can't take that again.

Wow. I thought the "Fire Him" contigent would win this by a landslide.
...not that I'm disappointed. I still think the close losses are on the players. The coaches put them in position to win but at the critical times the players didn't "answer the bell". Missed kicks, fumbles, no O-line push when we needed a yard, pick sixes... I doubt seriously that the coaching staff promotes those things in practice.

Don't forget that the games were close, despite the 2 interceptions, or the fumbles, or muffed kick returns.

He still got us within arms reach of winning...

& there's another fumble, missed FG, or INT.

Lucky

12-17-2009, 11:29 PM

I still think the close losses are on the players. The coaches put them in position to win but at the critical times the players didn't "answer the bell". Missed kicks, fumbles, no O-line push when we needed a yard, pick sixes... I doubt seriously that the coaching staff promotes those things in practice.
I think a case can be made that the players put the team in a position to win, and the coach didn't answer the bell.

It's Kubiak who couldn't come up with a 2nd half scoring play in Week 3 versus the Jags and didn't call Andre Johnson's number once in the 2nd half.

It's Kubiak who allowed the team to come out flat in Week 5 and called that dangerous out pattern that went pick 6.

It's Kubiak who told Schaub to run the 2nd Quarter clock to the 2 minute warning at Indy, which allowed the Colts to take a 2nd look at Moats fumble and challenge.

It's Kubiak that came out of the bye week and decided that a lethargic Chris Brown would be made a focal point of the offense.

It's Kubiak that again ignores Andre Johnson for the likes of Vonta Leach, Chris Brown, and James Casey in the 2nd half of the Week 12 Colts game, and allows Indy to come back from a 17 point deficit.

Were mistakes made by Texans players this season? Plenty. Note that these are the same players that Kubiak & staff coached to avoid these same mistakes from OTAs, through training camp, and throughout the season. Obviously, their message isn't getting through. Maybe when these players see the head coach make mistake after mistake, they feel less accountable?

Regardless, to place all of the blame on the players is a total crock. And while I feel it is completely justified and righteous for Kubiak to get the axe, I certainly do not believe this team should come back intact. I've seen enough of Ok0ye to proclaim him a bust. He's this organization's David Carr. Only starting because of his draft status and the team's reluctance to bring in competition at his position. I think we've seen enough of Chris Myers to know that he is not a legit NFL starter. And Dunta Robinson should have his wish granted and get a new address. Good luck with that next contract.

Yes, the Texans need to gain experience, bring in more talent, and develop leadership on the field. What they don't need is to waste another year trying to develop a proven coordinator like Gary Kubiak into a legitimate NFL head coach. It's not working.

houstonspartan

12-18-2009, 12:34 AM

i hear that, but you think at some point McNair is going to get sick and tired of having the losing horse on most Sundays. How many heartbreaking losses does he have to force the Bushes to sit through on Sundays before he starts trying to compete for a championship and not just 8-8.

Exactly. I said it before, I was humiliated after the Monday night game, so you can imagine how McNair felt, when he had Bum Phillips, a ton of other football people and political folks in attendance.

Then, the same thing happened during the Indy game, when the Bushes where in his suite. It's embarrassing to the fans. I can only imagine what he's going through.

Runner

12-18-2009, 12:39 AM

Wow. I thought the "Fire Him" contigent would win this by a landslide..

Speaking for myself, I don't base my expectations for next year on hopes, dreams, and Internet polls. I look at what has happened and extrapolate reasonable expectations based on that history. This season, to me, was the season Kubiak had to show his growth. He didn't, in my opinion, so it's time to move on.

The human brain is good at pattern recognition; it's also good at letting emotion and other factors cloud judgement.

houstonspartan

12-18-2009, 12:57 AM

Speaking for myself, I don't base my expectations for next year on hopes, dreams, and Internet polls. I look at what has happened and extrapolate reasonable expectations based on that history. This season, to me, was the season Kubiak had to show his growth. He didn't, in my opinion, so it's time to move on.

The human brain is good at pattern recognition; it's also good at letting emotion and other factors cloud judgement.

Runner, you are reading my mind. I made a reasonable prediction about next year, and someone told me on another board that it was ridiculus to predict next year because that would be thinking in a vaccuum. WTF?

I started with the division record, which is 6 losses right off the bat. But, I gave them a break, and decided they could pull one win off. Ok, so five losses.

In addition, we have the freaking NFC EAST coming in, and that's at LEAST two losses. That puts us at seven losses.

Then, we always bungle another random game or two. So that puts us at AT LEAST 8 losses next year.

Yes, I'm guessing, but I think it's a fair baseline using past performance. Someone told me that i was nuts. It wasn't that they disagreed with my prediction. They basically told me that it was impossible to even speculate about the team next year because it hasn't happened yet.

I shit you not. That's what they said. Next year's schedule is going to be extremely hard, yet a lot of fans aren't thinking about that. They think Dallas, Philly, NY Giants and Washigton will be walks in the park.

A good friend and I had this conversation. He thought I was being too harsh. Regarding the division record, he thought we'd split the division and end up with three wins and three losses. I then asked him about the NFC East. He actually thought we'd lose at least three of those games.

I said, "You realize that even with your scenario, we're looking at at least six losses, right? And, there will be one or two other losses in there, and that puts us at seven, possibly 8 losses, using your generous scenario."

He looked at me and was like, "Damn. You're right."

No matter how we twist the numbers, based on past performance, next year we're looking at a range between 7-9, 8-8 and 9-7.

barrett

12-18-2009, 01:42 AM

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Do you get where I'm going?

houstonspartan

12-18-2009, 01:57 AM

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Do you get where I'm going?

I see your point. And I understand what you mean.

As I said, I admitted that it was a wild random guess. But, based on past performance of THIS team, I think it's a safe bet. I'm looking at OUR external output towards those other teams. We sometimes make even bad teams look good. Often, that is not about them. It's about us.

See my point?

Goldensilence

12-18-2009, 01:58 AM

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

3 out of the four are likely to finish over .500 and we don't have a big history of beating plus .500 teams?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Have you recently looked at our division record ?

Do you get where I'm going?

Not really?

mussop

12-18-2009, 03:57 AM

I think a case can be made that the players put the team in a position to win, and the coach didn't answer the bell.

It's Kubiak who couldn't come up with a 2nd half scoring play in Week 3 versus the Jags and didn't call Andre Johnson's number once in the 2nd half.

It's Kubiak who allowed the team to come out flat in Week 5 and called that dangerous out pattern that went pick 6.

It's Kubiak who told Schaub to run the 2nd Quarter clock to the 2 minute warning at Indy, which allowed the Colts to take a 2nd look at Moats fumble and challenge.

It's Kubiak that came out of the bye week and decided that a lethargic Chris Brown would be made a focal point of the offense.

It's Kubiak that again ignores Andre Johnson for the likes of Vonta Leach, Chris Brown, and James Casey in the 2nd half of the Week 12 Colts game, and allows Indy to come back from a 17 point deficit.

Were mistakes made by Texans players this season? Plenty. Note that these are the same players that Kubiak & staff coached to avoid these same mistakes from OTAs, through training camp, and throughout the season. Obviously, their message isn't getting through. Maybe when these players see the head coach make mistake after mistake, they feel less accountable?

Regardless, to place all of the blame on the players is a total crock. And while I feel it is completely justified and righteous for Kubiak to get the axe, I certainly do not believe this team should come back intact. I've seen enough of Ok0ye to proclaim him a bust. He's this organization's David Carr. Only starting because of his draft status and the team's reluctance to bring in competition at his position. I think we've seen enough of Chris Myers to know that he is not a legit NFL starter. And Dunta Robinson should have his wish granted and get a new address. Good luck with that next contract.

Yes, the Texans need to gain experience, bring in more talent, and develop leadership on the field. What they don't need is to waste another year trying to develop a proven coordinator like Gary Kubiak into a legitimate NFL head coach. It's not working.

Must spread rep!!!!!!!!

HJam72

12-18-2009, 05:32 AM

Regarding some of these last posts, I'm just gonna call it like I see it. When we lose, it is almost inevitably because we lose at the LOS on one or both sides of the line. I believe that is because we are lacking in talent in the center of our O-Line and lacking in HEART on the whole D-Line overall. Some of that problem is on KUBIAK. I'm talking about a couple of 1st round D-Linemen, among others. We have serious talent on this team that sometimes plays just good enough to remain a starter, which only means playing as well as their backups would. THAT'S BULLCRAP, and it's exactly what's happening. Replace the center and get these lazy D-linemen active one way or another. If I was McNair, I'd do that part myself, actually. There's absolutely no excuse for admitting that you need to give more to your coach, or be more consistent, or whatever is the pansy A&$ most recent way of saying, "I just want my multi-million dollar pay without actually working for it..."

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

Texan_Bill

12-18-2009, 07:53 AM

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different. ;)

http://rotntees.com/images/smileybullethole.jpg

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

Ain't that the truth. :thumbup

Thorn

12-18-2009, 08:18 AM

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

If that were to happen Kubiak would be back next year. Period.

I, for one, would quit my fence hanging, and welcome him back with open arms. I'm already leaning to the side of voting to bring him back next year. Not because I really want him to be back, but I don't see a good enough head coach in the works to convice me a change would be in the Texans best interests. I'd much rather have Kubiak back for another year than take a chance on an another unproven coach.

Kaiser Toro

12-18-2009, 08:21 AM

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

The goal from my side has been making the playoffs this year. I am of the ilk that Kubiak gets a one year pass should we make a miraculous run. Hopefully McNair is thinking the same thing and has laid out that roadmap to Kubiak prior to the season.

However, this is the franchise that gave David Carr an extension after a 2-14 campaign. :clown:

Joe Texan

12-18-2009, 11:21 AM

So when you see soap, the first thing that pops in your head is "prison rape"? Hmm.....that says more about you than anybody else here, or are you rehashing past experiences here or what? :backsout:

Anyways now that we've waded through your sick fantasies, why on earth would it take another coach 3 years to get this team where everybody wants them to go? (which lets be honest here, the bar isn't set very high. We're asking for a winning season, a playoff appearance, and god forbid...maybe even some good divisional wins). Even you yourself said you would call for Kubiak's head if he doesn't get us over the hump next year, so maybe other people are just ahead of the curve here.... oh yeah, that's right....we can't be, because we aren't "true fans" and we don't cheer loud enough. I mean that's the reason why this team can't win more than 8 games right, the home crowd leaves too early. :gun: Keep shaking those pom poms, it's bound to make Kubiak smarter one day. Every time a cowbell rings, a wanna-be head coach gets his wings.

To answer your question the only thoughts that popped in my head were the stories you told about what you like to do with pink soap in the shower and that would turn Boy George straight.

Now talk about sick, anyway if the new coach comes in,I am so sure he says bye to Kubiak and hello to all the others in place, if not he must replace them and that will take months, but wait we got a draft to do and then training camp. Oh well we have great fans that want the coach gone so we will be ok. They don't like pom poms or chearleaders but they do have pink soap so watch out we will be the pride of the lockerroom.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2009, 11:26 AM

Yuck, you made my skin crawl with that list.

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

By acting like Gary is better head coach material than those guys just shows you lack the basic knowledge of football and what success actually is. I know your a grandma and I totally respect that you love football and i know you are a good and loyal fan, but just because someone is the coach of your team doesn't make them good. you have to be honest and objective and not be so biased. gary has proven to be a loser. that is not up for argument or debate. It has been proven over a 4 year span. No argument. He has been a loser and has shown that he lacks the ability to adjust in games, make quality in game decisions, and chokes any time he gets to the big game.

These are all facts and aren't up for debate. If you think another year or two is going to magically change all that, that is your opinion, but i just don't see anything that would give you reason to believe that it will change. he has done nothing to show that it will change. in fact, his coaching was even worse this year. So is it going to change just because you say so? or is it going to change because he is a local Houston product? or is it going to change because he is so niiiiice? if you think that, you are just fooling yourself.

I am not saying those names are great fits as Houston head coach material, but all of those guys have been more successful than Gary has, so why is it that they make you vomit? I know why. because they don't coach for your team and because they arent named Gary Kubiak and are a 'local hero'. Outside of Wannstedt (who shouldn't even be on the same list as a Ditka or JJ) there are absolutely no football reasons that would give Kubiak the nod over those guys other than age (JJ and Ditka) and attitude/personality (Martz) Its just personal bias and homerism. Thank god you don't run our team.

This reminds me a lot of the end of the Carr era. People were still acting like he was going to turn the corner even though all evidence pointed to the exact opposite. Those of us that thought he sucked knew we needed to get rid of him to fix the offense but there were some who were stubborn and homered so much that they actually thought Carr was going to be good. That is exactly what is happening now.

And lets not be surprised that the same people who wanted more time for Carr are the same people that want more time for Kubiak. The same. And the same people that knew Carr sucked long before the Texans finally admitted failure are the same people that know Kubiak is a loser and needs to be fired. So excuse me if we don't put a lot of merit into the opinions of some homers who cheer for the jersey irregardless of how bad the player/coach inside it is performing.

It is following the same course. Vinny, KT, myself, and a few others know that Kubiak sucks, just like we knew that Carr sucked...way before the curve. Is it because we are so damn smart? maybe partly, but mostly its because we are actually honest and not letting homering and team loyalty cloud our judgment. We are just more objective and honest with our assessment. We don't let the color of the uniform cloud our thinking. So when you disagree with us, don't be crying to mama when you are proven wrong and we throw another year or two down the drain trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I knew Carr sucked by the middle of 2003 and was called every name in the book for pointing out what was painfully obvious to any objective fan...and even a few of the Texan players themselves. As early as Year 2, I knew that some of the players knew that Carr sucked but couldn't say anything or complain about it. It split our locker room. I told people about that (couldn't disclose my source at the time) and was told I was full of crap.

Many of the defensive players came to a steakhouse that I frequented, and after a few cigars, a few bottle of wines, and a nice Porterhouse these guys would get loose lips. Jamie Sharper told he himself that Carr wasn't working hard, didn't hang out with the rest of the guys, and would be one of the last to show up and the first to leave. He also complained about his dad attending practices and that Carr didn't show any leadership or accountability after losses to the media. He told me this himself. I couldn't say anything specific at the time because I would have gotten my friend (the restaurant owner) and possibly Jamie in trouble.

Gary Walker also spoke up about it another time at the steakhouse's bar and mentioned how Capers/Casserley coddled Carr and would always come to his defense. Most of the time we talked about video games or the NFL but occassionally we would talk NFL/Texans. On this board, I was always asked to provide proof of my inside knowledge or quote a source, but I couldn't at the time. Now I feel I can because A.) i dont live in Houston and B.) my friend sold his restaurant and C.) Sharper and Walker are both gone as is Carr.

I am not against bringing Kubiak back, but only if we can't attract a truly proven head coaching candidate that will turn things around and bring some passion and fire to this team. Cowher, Gruden, Schottenheimer, and Holmgren all have those traits and we owe it to ourselves and our fanbase to make a phone call and see if they are interested.

i don't want another wasted year and i sure as hell ain't going to pay big $$ for it year after year like I have since 2002.

for those of you who waded through all this text, Merry Christmas and I am sorry for the rant and to those of you who passed, you were probably smart. here it is in Cliff Notes form.

Kubiak is a crappy coach. We need a proven coach. Same people homering for Kubiak are homering for Carr. They didn't know what they were talking about then and still don't know what they are talking about. I am sick of paying big $$ for this garbage and all this losing. Sorry about the length of the post. Merry Christmas.

Joe Texan

12-18-2009, 11:29 AM

Not sure if that question was for me, but personally - it HAS to be playoffs next year. I think making it will get a possible extension - but winning at least one will quell all nay sayers much more. I'm thinking the Texans will have to take it at least one deeper into the playoffs since this year was the "sneak into to the playoffs"

If playoffs are missed, then it'd better be at least a 10-6 season to have that "possible extension" mentioned earlier. I don't think 9-7 and a winning season will cut it next year.

Great post and great answer, I agree that the pressure is on next year and we are not looking for anything but a 10 and 6 or better. If we go 9 and 7 this year then we have a chance to sneak in. If we do not go 9 and 7 the I am mad but I am not mad enough to fire Kubiak. I have the time to wait and see if this ship is sailing or sinking. My bet it is sailing but dropped a sail or two that must be mended to continue.

Joe Texan

12-18-2009, 11:49 AM

It is quite an honor to see that they have Cloned me, and My Clone loves Beer, That says a lot more than "My Clone Loves Pink Soap" which is what I see spewing suds all over this thread.

It has not come to the soapdroppers attention that most fans a slight problem where they are concerned so it might be that more people have enough football knowledge to see that a team is on the ledge and soap is slippery while out on the ledge. Get ready Pink soapers lather up real good and JUMP

WWJD

12-18-2009, 11:59 AM

[QUOTE=Joe Texan;1327402]It is quite an honor to see that they have Cloned me, and My Clone loves Beer, That says a lot more than "My Clone Loves Pink Soap" which is what I see spewing suds all over this thread.

It has not come to the soapdroppers attention that most fans a slight problem where they are concerned so it might be that more people have enough football knowledge to see that a team is on the ledge and soap is slippery while out on the ledge. Get ready Pink soapers lather up real good and JUMP[/QUOTE

Huh?

houstonspartan

12-18-2009, 12:35 PM

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

By acting like Gary is better head coach material than those guys just shows you lack the basic knowledge of football and what success actually is. I know your a grandma and I totally respect that you love football and i know you are a good and loyal fan, but just because someone is the coach of your team doesn't make them good. you have to be honest and objective and not be so biased. gary has proven to be a loser. that is not up for argument or debate. It has been proven over a 4 year span. No argument. He has been a loser and has shown that he lacks the ability to adjust in games, make quality in game decisions, and chokes any time he gets to the big game.

These are all facts and aren't up for debate. If you think another year or two is going to magically change all that, that is your opinion, but i just don't see anything that would give you reason to believe that it will change. he has done nothing to show that it will change. in fact, his coaching was even worse this year. So is it going to change just because you say so? or is it going to change because he is a local Houston product? or is it going to change because he is so niiiiice? if you think that, you are just fooling yourself.

I am not saying those names are great fits as Houston head coach material, but all of those guys have been more successful than Gary has, so why is it that they make you vomit? I know why. because they don't coach for your team and because they arent named Gary Kubiak and are a 'local hero'. Outside of Wannstedt (who shouldn't even be on the same list as a Ditka or JJ) there are absolutely no football reasons that would give Kubiak the nod over those guys other than age (JJ and Ditka) and attitude/personality (Martz) Its just personal bias and homerism. Thank god you don't run our team.

This reminds me a lot of the end of the Carr era. People were still acting like he was going to turn the corner even though all evidence pointed to the exact opposite. Those of us that thought he sucked knew we needed to get rid of him to fix the offense but there were some who were stubborn and homered so much that they actually thought Carr was going to be good. That is exactly what is happening now.

And lets not be surprised that the same people who wanted more time for Carr are the same people that want more time for Kubiak. The same. And the same people that knew Carr sucked long before the Texans finally admitted failure are the same people that know Kubiak is a loser and needs to be fired. So excuse me if we don't put a lot of merit into the opinions of some homers who cheer for the jersey irregardless of how bad the player/coach inside it is performing.

It is following the same course. Vinny, KT, myself, and a few others know that Kubiak sucks, just like we knew that Carr sucked...way before the curve. Is it because we are so damn smart? maybe partly, but mostly its because we are actually honest and not letting homering and team loyalty cloud our judgment. We are just more objective and honest with our assessment. We don't let the color of the uniform cloud our thinking. So when you disagree with us, don't be crying to mama when you are proven wrong and we throw another year or two down the drain trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I knew Carr sucked by the middle of 2003 and was called every name in the book for pointing out what was painfully obvious to any objective fan...and even a few of the Texan players themselves. As early as Year 2, I knew that some of the players knew that Carr sucked but couldn't say anything or complain about it. It split our locker room. I told people about that (couldn't disclose my source at the time) and was told I was full of crap.

Many of the defensive players came to a steakhouse that I frequented, and after a few cigars, a few bottle of wines, and a nice Porterhouse these guys would get loose lips. Jamie Sharper told he himself that Carr wasn't working hard, didn't hang out with the rest of the guys, and would be one of the last to show up and the first to leave. He also complained about his dad attending practices and that Carr didn't show any leadership or accountability after losses to the media. He told me this himself. I couldn't say anything specific at the time because I would have gotten my friend (the restaurant owner) and possibly Jamie in trouble.

Gary Walker also spoke up about it another time at the steakhouse's bar and mentioned how Capers/Casserley coddled Carr and would always come to his defense. Most of the time we talked about video games or the NFL but occassionally we would talk NFL/Texans. On this board, I was always asked to provide proof of my inside knowledge or quote a source, but I couldn't at the time. Now I feel I can because A.) i dont live in Houston and B.) my friend sold his restaurant and C.) Sharper and Walker are both gone as is Carr.

I am not against bringing Kubiak back, but only if we can't attract a truly proven head coaching candidate that will turn things around and bring some passion and fire to this team. Cowher, Gruden, Schottenheimer, and Holmgren all have those traits and we owe it to ourselves and our fanbase to make a phone call and see if they are interested.

i don't want another wasted year and i sure as hell ain't going to pay big $$ for it year after year like I have since 2002.

for those of you who waded through all this text, Merry Christmas and I am sorry for the rant and to those of you who passed, you were probably smart. here it is in Cliff Notes form.

Kubiak is a crappy coach. We need a proven coach. Same people homering for Kubiak are homering for Carr. They didn't know what they were talking about then and still don't know what they are talking about. I am sick of paying big $$ for this garbage and all this losing. Sorry about the length of the post. Merry Christmas.

Very well said. Agree with all of it.

Also, I would sever my right arm for Jimmy Johnson. The man is a freaking football genius.

I think there's a lot of "hometown boy does good" things going on. Gary is getting a huge pass because he is from here.

Grams

12-18-2009, 12:51 PM

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

Wolf6151

12-18-2009, 01:02 PM

This same poll should be taken again at the end of the season after 2 straight losses to Miami and New England. We'll most likely get totally different results.

WWJD

12-18-2009, 01:05 PM

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

Jason Garrett and Wade Phillips make approximately the same amount...3 million a year. Garrett is the highest paid assistant coach in the league. Wade was retained last year on a one year extension. He's definitely a better DC than head coach.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2009, 02:10 PM

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

Goldensilence

12-18-2009, 02:14 PM

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

Yeah lost the Big East title on a missed extra point to Cinci. It was a heck of a game to watch, probably one of the best I saw all year.

Texecutioner

12-18-2009, 02:26 PM

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Wade Phillips has at least coached his team to a 13-3 season where they got a first round bye for having the best record in the NFC. That year and last year may not seem like much to you, but what does that say about a guy who goes 8-8 for 3 straight years?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Martz took his team to the SB against the Pats and lost by a last second FG by Vinatteri.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

Marriucci coached a 49ers team that had one of the best come back victories in the history of the NFL in the playoffs against the Giants. Marriucci went to the playoffs a few times with the 49ers actually. I want to say that he's won at least two playoff games. That game against the Giants was one of the best football games I've ever seen.

noxiousdog

12-18-2009, 02:40 PM

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

This is what I don't understand. For all the criticism of Kubiak, how can you say Wannstadt has been doing real well?

In 2003 and 2004, Pittsburgh was 5-2 and 4-2 in conference.

Wannstedt took over in 2005 and managed to backslide to 4-3, 2-5, and 3-4. Both last year and this year he managed 5-2, neither time winning the conference.

Keeping in mind that the teams he's beating include a Syracuse team that's won 4 conference games in 5 years. Louisville who hasn't had a winning record (including out of conference!) since Patrino left in '06, Uconn who's only had a winning record 1 year in Wannstedt's tenure, and South Florida who has won 4 games 3 times and 3 the rest.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2009, 02:50 PM

This is what I don't understand. For all the criticism of Kubiak, how can you say Wannstadt has been doing real well?

In 2003 and 2004, Pittsburgh was 5-2 and 4-2 in conference.

Wannstedt took over in 2005 and managed to backslide to 4-3, 2-5, and 3-4. Both last year and this year he managed 5-2, neither time winning the conference.

Keeping in mind that the teams he's beating include a Syracuse team that's won 4 conference games in 5 years. Louisville who hasn't had a winning record (including out of conference!) since Patrino left in '06, Uconn who's only had a winning record 1 year in Wannstedt's tenure, and South Florida who has won 4 games 3 times and 3 the rest.

As of the last couple of years he is doing real well. There is nothing tricky about it. He just played a win all game for the Big East Championship. I didn't say he was great there. He started badly, but it is college ball, not the pros. But 5-2 is a nice winning record in conference and he was playing for something. If you are comparing him to Kubiak..who has never had a winning conference record...1 win this year after 4 YEARS...and has never had a winning record overall or played for anything, then it was a fail. Big Difference. You are talking two completely different things...college to pro...and different set ups. Not really sure what your point is except to try and dissect saying someone is doing well at Pitt now.

For comments way back asking why people keep responding in here.....it's this?Taking a random comment that had nothing to do with the subject and turning it into something. Whatever.

noxiousdog

12-18-2009, 03:05 PM

As of the last couple of years he is doing real well. There is nothing tricky about it. He just played a win all game for the Big East Championship. I didn't see he was great there. He started badly, but it is college ball, not the pros. But 5-2 is a nice winning record in conference and he was playing for something. If you are comparing him to Kubiak..who has never had a winning conference record...1 win this year after 4 YEARS...and has never had a winning record overall or played for anything, then it was a fail. Big Difference. You are talking two completely different things...college to pro...and different set ups. Not really sure what your point is except to try and dissect saying someone is doing well at Pitt now.

Only getting to 5-2 in a BCS conference with no powerhouses in 5 years is terrible. Pittsburgh should absolutely own the Big East now that Miami is gone.

For comments way back asking why people keep responding in here.....it's this?Taking a random comment that had nothing to do with the subject and turning it into something. Whatever.

Don't be so defensive. I was just confused why you think Wannstedt was doing well and Kubiak is terrible.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2009, 03:10 PM

Only getting to 5-2 in a BCS conference with no powerhouses in 5 years is terrible. Pittsburgh should absolutely own the Big East now that Miami is gone.

Don't be so defensive. I was just confused why you think Wannstedt was doing well and Kubiak is terrible.

Maybe so, but he is doing well compared to his last pro coaching days. To clear up any misconception, I'm not advocating DW coaching here or in the NFL...just he seems to do a little better in college, especially the last 2 years. He was a much better coordinator....like I think Kubes is. Actually he and many others make a good case for good guys, great coordinators, not always making it. He and Turner were the backbone to Jimmy's stafff in Dallas. You may be right on 5-2 but he is winning and they competed this year.

Not defensive, I just want to point out why I was responding so as not to get ripped for actually debating a question.

Texan_Bill

12-18-2009, 03:14 PM

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

His first 3 years at Pitt was suck!! 16-19. This season and last season were much better but he still can't win the Big East.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2009, 03:17 PM

His first 3 years at Pitt was suck!! 16-19. This season and last season were much better but he still can't win the Big East.

Explained above :)

noxiousdog

12-18-2009, 03:21 PM

Maybe so, but he is doing well compared to his pro coaching days. To clear up any misconception, I'm not advocating DW coaching here or in the NFL...just he seems to do a little better in college, especially the last 2 years. He was a much better coordinator....like I think Kubes is. Actually he and many others make a good case for good guys, great coordinators, not always making it. You may be right on 5-2 but he it is winning and they competed this year.

Not defensive, I just want to point out why I was responding so as not to get ripped for actually debating a question.

No worries. I've noticed things are a lot more heated here lately. I just think Pittsburgh's record and everything on the line game is a scheduling trick that they got to play that game the last game of the season. Had it been earlier in the year he'd have just been playing out the string.

Likewise if Jacksonville was in week 17 instead of week 13, we'd have had a decent shot of that being for a playoff spot. Nah.. that would mean we'd have had to beat both NE and MIA. No chance ;)

Texan_Bill

12-18-2009, 03:32 PM

Explained above :)

I know. I read it right after I posted a response to your quote. :gun:

I'm slow today for some reason.

Grams

12-18-2009, 03:33 PM

Likewise if Jacksonville was in week 17 instead of week 13, we'd have had a decent shot of that being for a playoff spot. Nah.. that would mean we'd have had to beat both NE and MIA. No chance ;)

Never say never. Maybe not probable, but there is always a possibility.

HoustonFrog

12-18-2009, 03:35 PM

I know. I read it right after I posted a response to your quote. :gun:

I'm slow today for some reason.

Friday and the week before a short week. I'm doing nothing and slow myself. Ready to :toast2:

Texan_Bill

12-18-2009, 04:06 PM

Friday and the week before a short week. I'm doing nothing and slow myself. Ready to :toast2:

Hell yeah!!! :party:

ObsiWan

12-18-2009, 04:48 PM

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different. ;)

http://rotntees.com/images/smileybullethole.jpg

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

Yeah, whether you're a Sunshine Club member or a Fire Everybody till we Win person, it shows you care. And when you care, you're a fan.

I mentioned these coaches, because they've all had some semblence of success, then went on to another team, & didn't fair so well.

Jimmy Johnson couldn't get it started in Miami. Wannstedt came in, did ok, but left a 1-8 team midseason. For me, that is unacceptable. Some of you may welcome it, but I would not appreciate two play-off seasons then be dumped mid-way through the next season.

Mariuchi was successful in San Francisco "he's a great coach" & bombed in Detroit.

Martz... same thing, except he inherited a Super Bowl team.

Wade Phillips.... I really have no beef with, I just threw him in there, because he isn't very popular.

Mike Shanahan, Bill Cowher, Marty Schotenheimer, Mike Holmgren... all successful, "proven" head coaches.. if they come here, & they work out, great..... but there is no such thing as a "proven head coach". We're just as likely to find success with the next Sean Peyton, or Mike Singletary ( I like him as a head coach), or the next Bellichick.

Ditka.. did he have a winning season in New Orleans? Forget what he did in Chicago, it didn't help the Saints one bit.

& in case there is something wrong with your reading comprehension.... I'm not saying that Kubiak is better than any of these guys. I'm just saying our next head coach can be a dud, regardless his "track record.

noxiousdog

12-18-2009, 06:45 PM

& in case there is something wrong with your reading comprehension.... I'm not saying that Kubiak is better than any of these guys. I'm just saying our next head coach can be a dud, regardless his "track record.

Like Capers :) It certainly seems like a great hire at the time.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2009, 06:59 PM

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Agreed, but should the mention of their name make you vomit?

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wannstedt isn't in hiding. He is coaching for Pitt and came one missed extra point from BCS.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Why is Wade a bad head coach? How can Gary be a good head coach if he has a losing record, yet Wade sucks? Biased anyone? Dude has led three different franchises to playoffs. Kubiak has done nothing but lose football games. But whatever, Kubiak is better....*rolls eyes*

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

I know why you don't like him. Because he is nearly unlikeable. But he has proven to be a better head coach than Kubiak. He is an ahole though

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

They did win in the playoffs. Remember the TO catch against the Packers. Mariucci is a great guy but may be a bit too nice to be a championship caliber head coach.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

Now your speakin' my language. We agree. I don't want to fire Kubiak to hire some other unproven guy. No way in hell. But we owe to our players and fanbase to try something else and give it a shot if a better opportunity was to come along (cowher, marty, etc.) We agree on this note and probably on a lot more than we realize.

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

Totally agree. I may not keep my season tickets, but rest assured, I will be in front of my TV or in front of the field on Sundays, win or lose. I just want to win this time :) I am sure we both do.

Merry Christmas, Grams. May we both get our Christmas wish. WINNING FOOTBALL!!

WWJD

12-18-2009, 08:07 PM

I wonder if Mariucci ever gets considered for head coaching jobs or if he's just content with his TV job?

He had SOME success...and he's fairly young.

thunderkyss

12-18-2009, 08:11 PM

I wonder if Mariucci ever gets considered for head coaching jobs or if he's just content with his TV job?

He had SOME success...and he's fairly young.

Personally I think Mooch & Martz hurt themselves by taking that job in Detroit. I would bet it's difficult for anyone to consider hiring them as a HC, after that gig.

Second Honeymoon

12-18-2009, 11:36 PM

Personally I think Mooch & Martz hurt themselves by taking that job in Detroit. I would bet it's difficult for anyone to consider hiring them as a HC, after that gig.

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

houstonspartan

12-19-2009, 01:05 AM

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

I'm from Michigan, and I don't think it was Barry Sanders' retirement that hurt the team. It was constant bad personnel decision making. They would get a coach in there, or a general manager, and it was clear after a few seasons that that person wasn't working. Instead of canning the person right away, they kept giving them extension after extension.

Matt Millen was GM for 8 years, and made so many bad decisions he set that franchise back something like 13 or 14 years. It was clear after about four years or so that Millens plans weren't working, but the owner liked him and let him stay. It was a disaster.

Grams

12-19-2009, 06:29 AM

Merry Christmas, Grams. May we both get our Christmas wish. WINNING FOOTBALL!!

Merry Christmas to you too!!

I meant to say Mariucci did not win the SB not the playoffs. Thought he did ok in SF, just not sure if he took over a good team and how he drafted for them. Think they tanked after he left. Nobody seems to do well in Detroit.

Hope everyone has a very happy and safe Holiday.

barrett

12-19-2009, 06:35 AM

are you guys still arguing about other teams coaches?

Grams

12-19-2009, 06:38 AM

are you guys still arguing about other teams coaches?

Not really.

disaacks3

12-20-2009, 04:57 PM

So, I'm waiting for all the exuberant shows of support after today's resounding win over the powerhouse Rams. Kubes clock-management, disciplined team and overall step-on-their throats tenacity is almost enough to make me switch my vote!

mexican_texan

12-20-2009, 05:05 PM

I totally understand he's not going anywhere. I still voted to fire him now. That way next year I'll be well entrenched in the "I TOLD YOU SO!" crowd. Kubiak lost me this year.

I'm typically a shiny, but this has been one pathetic performance too many. I understand Foster fumbled early, but he was doing a lot better than Chris Brown.

Goldensilence

12-20-2009, 05:18 PM

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

I don't think it was just Sander's early retirement, it was hiring and continuing to retain Matt Millen as GM. Him and his staff seemed like it always did a bad job of evaluating talent and how it translates to the NFL.

I think right now they are headed in the right direction with Schwartz.

I actually think Martz did a good job in Detroit as an OC for the most part. I think the team loses even more without him guiding the offense.

Martz's problem has always been his ego and that he can't seem to figure out how to keep his QB protected.

Napa Auto Parts

12-20-2009, 08:45 PM

Kubiak is doing a great job winning two in row againts two strong teams the seashawks and the fastet show on turf.

beerlover

12-20-2009, 11:07 PM

I'm typically a shiny, but this has been one pathetic performance too many. I understand Foster fumbled early, but he was doing a lot better than Chris Brown.

I agree with this point: the Kubiak/Smith approach of RB by committee IS an absolute failure. If they so choose to continue down this pathway it will surely mean their own demise. I had to sit there tonight & watch Carolina RB Jonathan Stewart become the first RB to rush over 100 yards against the Viking defense in 36 games, after DeAngelo Williams had to leave with injury :mcnugget:

bckey

12-21-2009, 08:30 AM

I mentioned these coaches, because they've all had some semblence of success, then went on to another team, & didn't fair so well.

Jimmy Johnson couldn't get it started in Miami. Wannstedt came in, did ok, but left a 1-8 team midseason. For me, that is unacceptable. Some of you may welcome it, but I would not appreciate two play-off seasons then be dumped mid-way through the next season.

Mariuchi was successful in San Francisco "he's a great coach" & bombed in Detroit.

Martz... same thing, except he inherited a Super Bowl team.

Wade Phillips.... I really have no beef with, I just threw him in there, because he isn't very popular.

Mike Shanahan, Bill Cowher, Marty Schotenheimer, Mike Holmgren... all successful, "proven" head coaches.. if they come here, & they work out, great..... but there is no such thing as a "proven head coach". We're just as likely to find success with the next Sean Peyton, or Mike Singletary ( I like him as a head coach), or the next Bellichick.

Ditka.. did he have a winning season in New Orleans? Forget what he did in Chicago, it didn't help the Saints one bit.

& in case there is something wrong with your reading comprehension.... I'm not saying that Kubiak is better than any of these guys. I'm just saying our next head coach can be a dud, regardless his "track record.

I agree with what you are saying here Thunder. I think the main reason most soapers would like a proven coach is because we have rookies from the gm down to the cordinators.

TexansFight

12-21-2009, 10:20 AM

There are a host of reasons why I want Kubiak gone. I will just point out one. Every time you hear Kubiak speak he ALWAYS talks about having a strong running game and establishing the run.

In his FOURTH YEAR, our running game is STILL TERRIBLE. If the running game is such a priority for him why does it still suck and if so why the hell should he still coach the team next year.

He brings in Alex Gibbs the supposed godfather of the ZBS and purported to be a great OL coach and our running game is still terrible.

Kubiak and Smith's handling of RB personnel has been a joke if this is such a priority. Chris Brown is in the trinity of most hated Texans along with Matt Stevens and P-Burnt in my book. That and completely being averse to investing in quality safeties (except for being extremely fortunate to have Bernie Pollard fall into our laps) are just a few of the litany of legitimate reasons to clean house. We all know Kubiak's problems when it comes to game and clock management.

Texan_Bill

12-21-2009, 10:35 AM

There are a host of reasons why I want Kubiak gone. I will just point out one. Every time you hear Kubiak speak he ALWAYS talks about having a strong running game and establishing the run.

In his FOURTH YEAR, our running game is STILL TERRIBLE. If the running game is such a priority for him why does it still suck and if so why the hell should he still coach the team next year.

He brings in Alex Gibbs the supposed godfather of the ZBS and purported to be a great OL coach and our running game is still terrible.

Huh?? There may be a number of reasons to want Kubiak gone, but this? Really??? The Texans are 14 games removed from rushing for 1800+ yards ranking in the top half of the league.

There are a host of reasons why I want Kubiak gone. I will just point out one. Every time you hear Kubiak speak he ALWAYS talks about having a strong running game and establishing the run.

In his FOURTH YEAR, our running game is STILL TERRIBLE. If the running game is such a priority for him why does it still suck and if so why the hell should he still coach the team next year.

In his FOURTH YEAR...I guess that THIRD YEAR with a good running game didn't count. Why does it still suck? - well first remove the still since if we had last year's running game we'd have 2-4 more wins right now. As for why it sucks this year, try your feature RB getting a fumbling disease and then going on IR, a pro-bowl alternate LG going down and the RG going down then every other RB on the team deciding they can't hang onto the ball either.

JB

12-21-2009, 11:16 AM

In his FOURTH YEAR...I guess that THIRD YEAR with a good running game didn't count. Why does it still suck? - well first remove the still since if we had last year's running game we'd have 2-4 more wins right now. As for why it sucks this year, try your feature RB getting a fumbling disease and then going on IR, a pro-bowl alternate LG going down and the RG going down then every other RB on the team deciding they can't hang onto the ball either.

But it is obviously Kubiak's fault. Why doesnt he show them how to hang on to the ball. Oh wait, he is not the running back coach. Still his fault for not benching the RB coach after Slaton fumbled the 2nd time...

Blake

12-21-2009, 12:42 PM

In his FOURTH YEAR...I guess that THIRD YEAR with a good running game didn't count. Why does it still suck? - well first remove the still since if we had last year's running game we'd have 2-4 more wins right now. As for why it sucks this year, try your feature RB getting a fumbling disease and then going on IR, a pro-bowl alternate LG going down and the RG going down then every other RB on the team deciding they can't hang onto the ball either.

Signs point to us needing a new RB coach. Maybe we can draft a shinny new RB for him in Round 2 this year.

Jonathan Dwyer
Jahvid Best I got to thinking about this earlier. Is there any other team in the NFL with 4 Different RBs w/ fumbles? Is that everyone we've had on the active roster? (I'm not counting the FB position).

J_R

12-21-2009, 02:37 PM

No Chris Henry has yet to fumble but I dont think he has seen any action yet.

Thorn

12-21-2009, 02:47 PM

I heard Chris Henry dropped Kubiak's Cappuccino and has been benched.

HoustonFrog

12-21-2009, 02:49 PM

...And around the turn they go, after a weak effort against the Rams, here comes the "No"s on the outside.....

Goldensilence

12-21-2009, 03:14 PM

In his FOURTH YEAR...I guess that THIRD YEAR with a good running game didn't count. Why does it still suck? - well first remove the still since if we had last year's running game we'd have 2-4 more wins right now. As for why it sucks this year, try your feature RB getting a fumbling disease and then going on IR, a pro-bowl alternate LG going down and the RG going down then every other RB on the team deciding they can't hang onto the ball either.

Sure you can give him last year when the line managed to catch lightening in a bottle with Slaton.

I think the point it the running game has consistently struggled under Gary. When he came in from Denver it was supposed to be plug and play at running back and get a 1000 yard rusher in the 7th round. It just hasn't materialized, especially considering we brought in Gibbs who established the system in Denver.

You right about losing Pitts no doubt, but when you roll into the season with Studdard and White as your primary backups you're bound to struggle if your starters go down. Roster decisions ultimately fall on Gary.

cdollaz

01-03-2010, 02:36 PM

My opinion is that if you can't win this, the biggest game in team history, at home, then you've had your chance and it's time to find someone else.

Thoughts? Agree/disagree?

Ckw

01-03-2010, 02:40 PM

Agree. It won't happen but if I were running the Texans, this would be Kubiak's last chance. There were too many "biggest games in Texans history" that Kubiak lost this season to give him a pass one more time.

Sure we can blame the players for not making plays, but it is Kubiak that has decided to continue playing the guys that have screwed us over. It is Kubiak that continued shove Arian Foster to the side and refused to try someone else when Chris Brown was fumbling games away and bringing absolutely nothing to our running game. It is Kubiak that has continued to trot Kris Brown out there to miss FGs and PATs.

Sure, blame the players for not doing there job. But blame Kubiak for putting players out there that weren't capable of doing their job.

beerlover

01-03-2010, 03:11 PM

Band wagoner? Because I don't have the optimism that you do for a coach that hasn't gone over 8-8 in 4 years? That's the only drivel you can come up with as a response?

:clap: for you! You're a Joe Texan clone now.

where are you now "fire Kubiak" bandwagoner :evil:

DexmanC

01-03-2010, 03:15 PM

The results on the field earned him another year. He got off the 8-8 schnide,
which I didn't believe he would do. If they'd lost, then we would have needed
a switch. I just hope he understands the importance of EVERY game, and
no more of this "Oh, well, it's only September."

HJam72

01-03-2010, 03:18 PM

Yes, I do agree that I would have fired him for losing this game; BUT the Texans won and have their first winning season! We've played our last game and STILL have a shot at the playoffs! :fans:

Assuming we don't make the playoffs and/or he doesn't manage to do something special in them, the one(s) I would fire are....well, read my sig...

Ghostform

01-03-2010, 03:23 PM

i think we should still fire him. not impressed with the division record since hes been here and i think we shoulda won more than 9 games this season, but i will say congrats to the team and im glad we got a winning season finally.

rollinstone18

01-03-2010, 03:25 PM

i think we should still fire him. not impressed with the division record since hes been here and i think we shoulda won more than 9 games this season, but i will say congrats to the team and im glad we got a winning season finally.

:mcnugget:

"congrats on the winning season gary. you're fired."

HJam72

01-03-2010, 03:26 PM

i think we should still fire him. not impressed with the division record since hes been here and i think we shoulda won more than 9 games this season, but i will say congrats to the team and im glad we got a winning season finally.

Well, assuming we don't make the playoffs, I'm on the fence. But, that's a lot better than how I felt ever since the last loss.

Lucky

01-03-2010, 05:13 PM

As for why it sucks this year, try your feature RB getting a fumbling disease and then going on IR, a pro-bowl alternate LG going down and the RG going down then every other RB on the team deciding they can't hang onto the ball either.
Add to this list of excuses, how about your best power runner kept on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season.

Scooter

01-03-2010, 05:31 PM

Add to this list of excuses, how about your best power runner kept on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season.

i couldnt agree more. if more teams started undrafted free agents from day one this game wouldnt be so boring. we also should've taken peppers first, traded up for peterson, and gone back in time to get peyton. if we were a real team that's what we would've done ... but kubiak sucks and mcnair's too cheap for time travel.

Lucky

01-03-2010, 05:33 PM

i couldnt agree more.
I knew it was only a matter of time when you saw things my way.

euro-Texan

01-03-2010, 05:43 PM

i couldnt agree more. If more teams started undrafted free agents from day one this game wouldnt be so boring. We also should've taken peppers first, traded up for peterson, and gone back in time to get peyton. If we were a real team that's what we would've done ... But kubiak sucks and mcnair's too cheap for time travel.

rep!

Texecutioner

01-03-2010, 05:44 PM

Add to this list of excuses, how about your best power runner kept on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season.

And then later being punished by being benched on your first fumble of the year.

Texecutioner

01-03-2010, 05:54 PM

where are you now "fire Kubiak" bandwagoner :evil:

Ha ha! Bandwagoner. You don't even know the meaning of the word. Wanting a 8-8 coach fired doesn't make you a band wagoner. It means you don't have confidence in a HC. A band wagoner is someone that only roots for winning teams.

At least learn the meaning of the stuff you're trying to talk about if you're going to throw around some smack. Lol! It just makes you look more foolish.

I just wish I had a HC for my team that could actually handle watching the end of a game.

noxiousdog

01-03-2010, 06:22 PM

Add to this list of excuses, how about your best power runner kept on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season.

What if he couldn't pick up the blitz?

beerlover

01-03-2010, 06:32 PM

Ha ha! Bandwagoner. You don't even know the meaning of the word. Wanting a 8-8 coach fired doesn't make you a band wagoner. It means you don't have confidence in a HC. A band wagoner is someone that only roots for winning teams.

At least learn the meaning of the stuff you're trying to talk about if you're going to throw around some smack. Lol! It just makes you look more foolish.

I just wish I had a HC for my team that could actually handle watching the end of a game.

now your a bandwagoner & sore sport (even though your hometown team has it's first winning season & chance to make the playoffs). good god man show some class :rake:

euro-Texan

01-03-2010, 06:35 PM

Ha ha! Bandwagoner. You don't even know the meaning of the word. Wanting a 8-8 coach fired doesn't make you a band wagoner. It means you don't have confidence in a HC. A band wagoner is someone that only roots for winning teams.

At least learn the meaning of the stuff you're trying to talk about if you're going to throw around some smack. Lol! It just makes you look more foolish.

I just wish I had a HC for my team that could actually handle watching the end of a game.

The soapers ARE down right angry tonight.

Scooter

01-03-2010, 06:39 PM

that's unfair, tex is no bandwagoner. i truthfully dont think he's been happy with anything the texans have ever done, but he's always here win or lose ... consistancy i guess.

Hervoyel

01-03-2010, 07:00 PM

The soapers ARE down right angry tonight.

Dream on. I don't see any "angry soapers". Just you claiming that. Why can't you just shut your pie hole and enjoy the 9 wins? Hell I don't think Kubiak is the answer and even I'm content to do that.

Lucky

01-03-2010, 07:01 PM

What if he couldn't pick up the blitz?
Foster is 6'1" 225 lbs. He played at a big time SEC program. If the coaches' couldn't get Foster ready to play, don't they deserve a little blame?

Nah.

thunderkyss

01-03-2010, 07:33 PM

The results on the field earned him another year. He got off the 8-8 schnide,
which I didn't believe he would do. If they'd lost, then we would have needed
a switch. I just hope he understands the importance of EVERY game, and
no more of this "Oh, well, it's only September."

Are you serious?

I'm not even going to touch this.

infantrycak

01-03-2010, 07:34 PM

Texacutioner and I disagree on many things but he is no bandwagoner. Now dedicated pessimist might be accurate.

thunderkyss

01-03-2010, 07:39 PM

Add to this list of excuses, how about your best power runner kept on the practice squad for the first 10 weeks of the season.

We made the switch to Moats in Buffalo, week 8. He fumbled on the one, in Indy, Week 9. Our next three games were divisional must wins...

I can understand Kubiak holding off on putting another rookie in the line up.

DexmanC

01-03-2010, 07:40 PM

Are you serious?

I'm not even going to touch this.

I'm speaking STRICTLY on Bob Mcnair will do. He's not gonna change
Kubes after today's win, and I'm gonna be on him like white on rice
all offseason, and until he gets our 10th win in 2010. I don't wanna
be stuck on "no playoffs" for another 2 years. Every coach you compare
him to has taken a team to the playoffs in under four years.

Judging by that long ass run to start the Jets game, we'll be watching
the playoffs again THIS year.

Thorn

01-03-2010, 07:50 PM

I am now officially tired of this thread. I'm glad I never voted in it.

Kubes is back next year whether we like it or not.

Besides, depending on the weather or what I ate last, I could change my mind at any time on Kubiac. LOL

beerlover

01-03-2010, 08:05 PM

Texacutioner and I disagree on many things but he is no bandwagoner. Now dedicated pessimist might be accurate.

he's not afraid to give negative rep either :winky:

HoustonFrog

01-03-2010, 08:26 PM

Dream on. I don't see any "angry soapers". Just you claiming that. Why can't you just shut your pie hole and enjoy the 9 wins? Hell I don't think Kubiak is the answer and even I'm content to do that.

Must spread Rep...if I can. No one is angry. Saying the team needs a certain direction is constructive criticism. Why would a fan want a team to lose just to get a guy fired. Most would eat crow if they consistently won. Now I'm fine with next year since it will happen but I just hope that everyone is on the same page with what to expect and hope Bob waits on extension talk

ObsiWan

01-03-2010, 08:28 PM

edit.
not getting back into this again

Lucky

01-03-2010, 08:34 PM

Did you watch the final preseason game?
I didn't. I was out of town on business.

Still, I think Foster's production the past 2 weeks speaks for itself. It's NFL caliber. Credit Kubiak, Smith, the scouts for bringing in Foster as an UDFA. Credit the coaches for working with Foster and not giving up on him.

But...don't tell me that Foster could not have helped this team earlier in the season. When the running game was hemorrhaging or non-existent. I'm not buying it.

GP

01-03-2010, 09:05 PM

The soapers ARE down right angry tonight.

Wrong.

I was one, and will be one again if next season fleshes itself out like THIS one did.

I was thrilled when we won today, and was thrilled when KC won today.

Was also watching the Cincy-NYJ gamer tonite and hoping for a Cincy win so we could get an extra game.