what gives - California Shipping liquor

Hi all,
Hope this isn't to far off topic and approbriate to this forum....

Just recently California shops have stopped shipping spirits (scoth included) out of state. I've talked with a few of the shops there, and they say to check back in a few weeks/months. But didn't really go into (or know) exactly what was going on, they did mention something about UPS handling liquor.
I assuming they are all waiting on some legal decission to come down sometime in the near (how near) future.
I was wondering if anyone had anymore insight into this issue.

There has been a lot of mad things going on over shipping alcohol world wide eventhough the states is particularly bad.

I know in the states it can be a state to sate issue of allowing or not spirits over state lines.

Another reason I heard in relation to international shipping was that spirits are too flamable to be carrying on Planes and are a major safety risk if they are broken and leak and some airlines have banned it totally....

follow the money

Someone mention to me it's about taxes. I also heard the issue with under age kids ordering online isn't all the prevelent to be an issuse.
I think the Federal government ruled it was ok for individuals to order across state lines, but some state are refusing to go along with the ruling.
Calif still ships liquor in state, so that knocks down arguments such as, kids ordering online or flamable substances.
I think UPS has stopped shipping across state lines because it doesn't want to get caught up in the confusion and fined.
But who knows for sure what is really going on ?
I'm just trying to get an idea if, if ever, and when Calif will begin shipping out of state again. What was encouraging was that the places I had spoken to there both told me to check back with them, suggestiong that the issue will get resolve in the not to distant future....I'm thirsty now....
Needless to say, the places I was ordering from had malts that I couldn't find locally and/or had much better prices.

When did this happen? I received a bottle from California (I'm in Texas) just a couple of weeks ago.

As far as legality goes, I found from the TABC (state liquor control board here in Texas) that shipping spirits directly to the consumer is illegal in this state, so officially it shouldn't have been shipped here. Still, I'd imagine the ultimate reason is taxes. If it's shipped here from CA, the state of Texas doesn't get tax revenue from the bottle, and taxes on alcohol here are not insignificant.

Taxes is the issue

Puck et al:
Up here North of the 49th, I know that taxation on luxury items varies from province to province, (ie: tobacco, cigarettes, vehicles). When tobacco prices were higher in the West some enterprising persons would buy large quantities of cigarettes in Ontario and ship them by mail to other provinces, thereby dodging the higher taxation. Revenue Canada shut this down a number of years ago and there is a Tobacco reporting station at the edge of the Ontario/Manitoba border.
There is also no shipping of alcohol between provinces for much the same reason and I understand Canada Post will refuse to deliver or destroy any alcohol they find that gets past their counterpersons. As for vehicles bought in other provinces, when you license them, you pay the taxes at that time to the Provincial government at the MTO license office.
Mayhaps, our draconian laws are infecting the neighbouring countries. Musky Pete

calif

Puck - I order some stuff going back 3 or 4 months and everything was ok, then I tried again, oh a month or so ago and that was a when it was denied.
It doesn't surprise me that your were able to get an order in though. Considering the people who work at those places probably don't know what the heck is going on half the time, they get an order and ship it.....UPS doesn't really know what's in the box, even if they suspect it bottles, it could be wine, which is OK, well sometimes to some states, and they guy picking it probably has a million things to worry about, least of which is what is that box.
Although I have to say, my UPS driver, that I sort of know, did give me a funny little smile when he handed me a box one time with the "So-and-So Liquor Store" return label on it.
I ordered twice from a dealer in New York, online, the 3rd time I tried they sent me back an email saying they don't ship out of state, evidently the kid in shipping had no clue he wasn't suppose to be shipping liquor out of state.
I thought of trying to just place an order online and take the chance that it would go thru. But the one place in Calif that I order from, post it in big letters on the site "NO OUT of STATE......CURRENTLY", another place I called up first....perhaps if I had just placed the order, it would land in some kids lap in the back room and he would have sent it, who knows.
In any case I'm surprise you got it in Texas, I hear they are really strick there.
Yup there is a big ta-do about cigarettes shipping going on, it became and issue in my state when they but another dollar per pack tax on them. All of a sudden everyone was ordering from out of state...dah...what did they think was going to happen.....
And yup, I think it's taxes taxes taxes = money money money
Funny thing, and how ironic, our wonderfull government, always giving us that crap about open borders, free trade, no tariffs, free markets, but you can even order a bottle of scotch, for fear you might screw them out of a lousy buck............typical politicians, talking out of both sides of their mouth.........but don't get me started.

That's interesting. At the place I ordered from - Wine and Liquor Depot - the guy I talked to does most of their scotch stuff and I get the impression he's the guy most people talk to when they order from there. His name is Howard, by the way. It's been about three weeks now, maybe they've changed too? Maybe not. Give them a call and see, they have a pretty decent selection.

Wine orders are no longer subject to state-by-state legislation, Bush signed a federal law last year that allows shipping directly to consumers from vineyards and retailers (but not distributors or wholesalers). The law, unfortunately, did not apply to spirits. This was in response to pressure from vineyards in places like California that were unhappy with the unbalanced trade effect some state legislations were having. Texas, for instance, didn't allow shipping wine into their state at all directly to a consumer, yet California did - so Texas vineyards could sell directly to Californians, but California wasn't allowed to sell to Texans. It was becoming a bigger deal as states outside of California became bigger wine producers. I guess spirit manufacturers in the states either aren't in the same situation or can't bring the same pressure to bear. Shipments from overseas are unaffected by the new law, though, so it's still illegal to buy directly from a European vineyard or retailer and ship to Texas. This is why I'm leery of making a purchase from The Whisky Exchange and shipping it here. Domestic purchases can easily be mistaken for wine, which would be legal, but any alcoholic purchase from overseas should be seized (again, direct to consumer only).

thanks

thanks for the tip puck, I'll check them out, on their shipping do they just charge the straight UPS shipping rate, or put a handling charge in, I was only paying like 3 dollars per bottle when I'd order say 4 bottles.

I think it is a recent event this business of shipping out of Calif, because like mention earlier I had no trouble until a month or so ago, at which time the two places I contacted said..."no can do for now"...... the "for now" was encouraging though, that's why I'm wondering what's up.
They had good prices on Laphroiag too, darn, I'm gonna' miss that stuff if I have to pay full price for it locally.

Puck, please let me correct you on one thing...it wasn't legislation that allowed wines to be shipped across state lines, it was a Supreme Court ruling that invalidated laws in many states that banned out of state wineries from selling and shipping directly to their residents.

Johnyy - I believe I paid a ridiculous shipping charge - $11? - but I only ordered a single bottle. It would have been a lot less per bottle had I ordered multiple bottles, but I don't think it would have gotten down to $4/btl if I'd ordered 3 bottles.

Sound about righ

Yea puck, that sounds about right. It does usually run about 12 bucks for a single bottle and gets down to 3-4 when ordering 4 or so bottles...
I usually order about 4 bottles at a time, a few for me, a few for a friend, this way we get the shipping charges down.
And I'll try to find a place that is running specials on a few things I'm interested in.
Sometimes I wonder if it ticks off the retailer when I just order bottles of their lose-leader items (sell at a lose to attract business, to entice you into buying other stuff). There was a retailer online selling Bowmore 12 Year for $20 and I order a bunch.

My guess is this thread originated from one major California vendor that had a no questions asked shipping policy which recently was halted and restored to only CA deliveries - am I right?

If so, based on what has been observed, and I know they claim their delivery services changed and are the issue, but I'm fairly certain they got popped for shipping across state lines & into jurisdictions that they had no permission or authorization for.

wrong again

Sorry Laphraig, this thread was started by little ol' malt sipping me....Johnny.
Personaly, I would much rather be able to go to a store locally and have a nice choice of malts and few deals here and there, unfortunately we have state controled liquor stores here, so we only get what liquor comes thru the state control board, meaning the few liquor stores there are have to buy from the stated, so if the state doesn't get it, the shop doesn't get it. Also the liquor stores are not allowed by law to resell the liquor for less than what they pay for it, so there is a bottom line on what stuff cost....which translates into....I pay more and have few choices, (and you thought America was the land of choice and freedom) As per example, some bottles that cost $57 locally I can/could order for $33 (shipping included).....
It's just another government scam to skim some un-deserved money off of someone else's business. But don't get me started on politics or I will be forced to use the terms "politician", "freedom", "lier" and "scum-bag" all in the same sentence.
So there you have it, the plain simple and un-adulterated truth....

Re: what gives - California Shipping liquor

Does anyone know the status of ordering oversea, such as The Whisky Exchange. TWE tells me everything will be fine, yet John Hansell of MA says the shipments will definitely be stopped at Customs and definitely do not do it. Any recent experience? Thx, David

Re: what gives - California Shipping liquor

david court wrote:Does anyone know the status of ordering oversea, such as The Whisky Exchange. TWE tells me everything will be fine, yet John Hansell of MA says the shipments will definitely be stopped at Customs and definitely do not do it. Any recent experience? Thx, David

"Definitely" cannot be said. Plenty of shipments (majority I believe) come through with not problems at all. TWE seems much more reliable than some of the others for coming through. I wonder if they have some agreement with the US about paying the duty into the US.

Re: what gives - California Shipping liquor

Just got my shipment of 9 bottles from TWE. It was held up in Customs for 5 days. But never had a problem of them being released. I thought that at one point in time that TWE had guarantee delivery into the US. They used an Importer. But I don't know if that is true these days.

Re: what gives - California Shipping liquor

I hope my luck is as good as yours. TWE just dispatched a package to me today, it's still at the international hub in London and making its way over here. How did you know it was held up in customs for 5 days, and did you do anything about it, or just sit and wait, and hope it comes out fine?

As this is my first order with TWE, how is it handled once it lands in the US? Is it from Parcelforce to USPS, or UPS / Fedex / DHL? And do they fly it all the way to the west coast, or does it land on the east coast and then travels by ground from there to here?

There's some stuff in there I really want to try, so I hope I don't lose this.