Wednesday, October 25, 2006

Just a Drive By

Still sick here, so just pointing out a couple of updates elsewhere, that coincidentally both point, in part, to Florida.

Noreen Gosch has posted an "urgent announcement" identifying one of the other bound boys in the photograph left at her door as David Leonard Johnson, kidnapped from Lynnwood, Washington in 1985 (three years after Johnny's disappearance). She writes that David's mother, Patricia Johnson Holm, had contacted her three weeks ago but had not sought additional publicity. "Since that time she has seen the interview the Florida Detective [Nelson Zalva] did with Fox TV/Greta Show and is shocked that the detective is again trying to discredit the photo and both of our sons. She has now reconsidered and is willing to share her story and the photo."

Maybe I'm going about searching the wrong way, or I'm wrong to presume there would be something online, but I can't find anything on an abduction of a David Leonard Johnson. Still, Noreen has supplied contact information for Patricia Holm - her phone number, even - which is far more than Nelson Zalva has provided to support his sketchy tale.

Also, Daniel Hopsicker has an interesting follow-up on the seizure of Florida flight school owner Wally Hilliard's private plane with 43 lbs of heroin onboard just three weeks after Mohammed Atta's enrollment. It was Central Florida's biggest drug bust, but the Justice Department declined to persecute Hilliard's pilot, Diego Levine-Texar, for "lack of evidence," though he ignored agents demands that he drop his cell phone which had to be pried from his hand at gunpoint. The affidavit of the arresting agent read, "Based on my experience I know that narcotics traffickers maintain frequent contact with one another while transporting narcotics… I believe Levine-Texar attempted to contact other accomplices as to the presence of agents and other law enforcement officials." Information about Levine-Texar, we're told, is considered "sensitive." Hopsicker notes in Welcome to Terrorland that Hilliard himself was feeling so cocksure after the bust that he shouted out to his employees when the DEA visited his mainstenance facility "Make sure all the heroin and cocaine gets hidden!"

A frequent flier on the flight school drug runs - 39 weeks in a row - Edgar Valles-Diaz, was arrested. Each flight originated in Venezuela, stopped over in Fort Lauderdale and continued on to New York City. A member of the jet's flight crew stated that "When we landed in New York Valles-Diaz would be met by his 'boyfriend.' He gets picked up at the airport by an Uzbek named Igor Rabaev, his heroin connection from Central Asia."

Hopsicker writes that Rabaev "is a prominent member of a Russian Mob family which uses the Uzbek capital of Tashkent as a transshipment point for heroin from Afghanistan.... 'Igor Rabaev is a name to be conjured with in certain circles,' a former U.S. covert operative in Central Asia told us."

Sound like Sibel Edmonds' global criminal network? ("You get to a point where it gets very complex, where you have money laundering activities, drug related activities, and terrorist support activities converging at certain points and becoming one.") Read more here.

157 Comments:

Sometimes I dread reading your posts first thing in the morning because then I cannot concentrate at work all day. But at the same time, I look forward to them. It's kind of like staring at a gruesome car crash. You can't look away and it sticks in your mind all day.

How can I be expected to shop with depressing crap like that running through my head?

Now my Yahoo home page, that's news.

We have this : "Color of M&Ms can influence amount eaten."

& this: "Who is the highest paid dead celebrity?"

Of course some liberal had to screw with the real news by including this: "Study: Earth's resources could run out soon."

Damn those liberals & their fear mongering!

What's next?

Iraq was a mistake?

Bush is an idiot?

The government lies?

I just shudder to think about the consequences for our economy if a fear mongering liberal attains power.

That's why Rick Santorum gets my vote this November. Anyone who can barricade the closet door shut like Tricky-Dick can while simultaneously passing around his dead fetus will obviously have the skills needed to keep the shudder inducing heebie-jeebies away from my rampant consumerism.

Please forgive me for hijacking this thread. You can have it back in a minute. It's just that the comments are so voluminous these days that by the time you get to comment #82 things just don't get noticed.

In http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/10/moonshadow.html#comments I picked up on something that Iridescent Cuttlefish said that plainly wasn't true and came to the outrageous conclusion that Iridescent Cuttlefish is a disinfo agent. I keep worrying whether I went too far in jumping to that conclusion, but at the moment I feel that, on balance I didn't, although I do admit that some of my rhetoric was sloppy and excessive.

What really puzzled me was the silence with which what I said was greeted by all except Iridescent Cuttlefish. So what I ask now is that readers take a look at that thread and comment on it so that we can get to the bottom of what is really going on here, and whether there really is anything sinister about the way the volume of comments on this blog has increased, while the proportion of good quality thought and research, as a couple of posters have pointed out in the last few weeks, has profoundly decreased.

Please note that my first two or three comments in the Moonshadow thread are under the name "Ireneshusband" because I couldn't remember my blogger password or screen name.

Link broken in a paragraph in the "Do you know this Women" story. An important link that I would read. :"She is someone the Department of Justice doesn't want you to know. She is subject to an extraordinary "State Secrets Privilege" gag order, which prohibits her going public with her classified testimony. The DOJ even retroactively classified her public testimony. Quietly, it recently also ADMITTED the validity of her claim of espionage in the translation department, just so you know we're not talking about a crazy woman here."

On Monday, Yechezkel Wells, a 21-year old dual U.S.-Israeli citizen, pleaded guilty to phoning in a false bomb threat on August 26 to Long Beach (California) Airport Emergency Services from a pay phone. Wells claimed that he made the call because he was late for his flight and hoped to delay his plane from taking off. Wells said that there was a bomb on the Jet Blue flight from Long Beach to Fort Lauderdale, Florida. The Jet Blue flight was delayed for one hour.

Not much is known about Wells. He claims he is a student but there is no information on what school he attends. Wells pleaded guilty to a single felony count of conveying false information of a threat targeting an airplane. Sentencing is scheduled for Jan. 29, 2007 and Wells faces a maximum of five years in prison or probation. If the past is prologue, we can expect the Bush administration to agree to probation in return for Wells' deportation to Israel, where he, like hundreds of other Mossad, Metsada, and LAP agents caught engaged in false flag terrorist and psychological operations in the United States before, during, and after the 911 attacks, can continue to ply their trade in deception.

Sorry, Shrub. You gotta play your cards close to your vest sometimes, especially around clever dicks like ireneshusband/robertperrson. The funniest thing about this knob is that he keeps writing posts in subsequent threads asking people to go back and look at his debating skills and my disinfoness. If you do honor his bizarre request, you'll find that the guy refused to discuss the issue of Ruppert's alleged integrity at all while claiming that I "ranted and raved" and "brought up irrelevant issues." This from the guy who devoted all of his "argument" in defense of his hero to linking me with something called the webfairy. Very strange case. I understand what it means to make an ass of yourself, but why would you call attention to it?

Maybe there is some sinister disinforming going on here, but I'm thinking it's more of a psychological issue. But for heaven's sake humor the guy--go back to the moonie bush post and view his enormous critical thinking skills before he calls in the feds or whatever his trip will ultimately bring him to...I even (briefly) considered apologizing for making him look like an idiot, but he did it to himself--do you blame the other duellist when the first one shoots his own fool head off? (Be sure to say nice things about him, though. These folks tend to be a little sensitive...)

Oh 'fess up IC. You know we pass each other every single morning at Disinfo Inc. in fact, just this morning, I said, "a squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?"

& you said, "Huh?"

Playing innocent only forces diligent thinkers like R.P. to dig deeper, & I know that you're not inclined to encourage rectal digging in any form, so a little honesty could prevent this from getting ugly(& a little stinky too).

Shrubageddon's response to my post was to address an in-joke to Iridescent Cuttlefish. Then between the two of them they do everything except address the challenge I originally laid down to Iridescent Cuttlefish, which was to validate I.C.'s claim that Mike Ruppert has advocated mass suicide. The issue of Mike Ruppert's integrity as a person is a separate issue, but there is no point arguing this with people who have no respect for facts.

Flippant personal jibes are no substitute for a well-considered argument. The response to my comment confirms my suspicion that Shrubageddon and Iridescent Cuttlefish are a double act. Just look at how their comments so far just on this particular thread have affected the signal to noise ratio. That they throw in a few good bits along the way does mitigate the overall effect they have on this blog (or at least its comments sections), which is to make it confused and inward-looking. What I am saying is that this is entirely deliberate. As Anonymous 1:25 am (http://rigint.blogspot.com/2006/09/gosch-again.html) put it,

What has happened to the comments here? Not long ago, it was a place to find intelligent, researched writing: A learning and enlightening experience. Unfortunately, it is now a mishmash of off-topic, back biting, vulgar remarks way too personal between the recent "regulars." I guess the disinfo agents have taken over to stop the flow of exchanged on-topic ideas. Sorry, Jeff.

I am not at all interested in anything else either Iridescent Cuttlefish or Shrubageddon have to say about this. What I want to know is what other people think. Are there still enough people reading this who care about it to make this blog worth sticking with? Or have they all been driven off already? Starroute? Jeff?

Flippant personal jibes are no substitute for a well-considered argument.

How about physically threatening people? Does that fall under the category of well-considered argument?

How about calling someone a sphincter? Or an Idiot? Or a Moron? Or a condescending hypocrit? Or a megalomaniac? Or a psycho? Or a nimrod? Or a slug? Gee.....it never seems to end....but one thing's for sure, those who are doing the name calling and insulting seem to be the ones complaining...which is a bit odd, if I may say so, myself.

I see. Six trivial posts while I was composing just one. Four of them from the same name. All in the space of twenty minutes. I was wondering how many man-hours would be necessary to flood a blog to the point of uselessness. Clearly it doesn't take at all long to write flippant rubbish.

If anyone else cares then please put your comment somewhere below and I will find it, no matter how much rubbish I have to wade through.

For that matter, if anyone wants to disagree with me intelligently, and is willing to express that disagreement in a way that someone who has never been here before could make sense of, then please do that too. I would welcome and respect that.

Jeff! You've got to say something about this. Take a day or two to get your health back if you have to, but it's time for you to get off the fence.

I called you almost every one of theose aptly fitting names. Not RS. So apparently your comprehension skills are suffering Shrubism as well. Its HYPOCRITE. But then all I can say is if the shoe fits.....then its not name calling but profiling and dichotomizing. You are losing this one.....just look at the score. You have chosen to battle all but a sacred few up here so I wish you what ever it is you may get as well deserved. You are up here just to stir the pot.

You have no valuable discourse to provide other than your flippant remarks about inane and often SARCASTIC topics. I am not sure about IC but you are definately up here sewing chaos in your own rite. Do you really find this consistently amusing? Most high school kids are out of the crank call mentality by 10th grade...but you just carried that with you into your adult life. I wonder what kind of woman would marry you anyway? So hey everybody look at Shrub....he needs the attention sooooo bad..... :( He needs to feel important, and everytime we respond to him he is empowered and emboldened. I still say Fuck you you hypocritical, condescending, slug. Wow....beatiful fit if I do say so myself sir.....will you be wearing these shoes out today or should I have them bagged for you?

I think everybody on this thread needs to chill the hell out. There is way too much back-biting and not enough discussion.

On the other hand, I come here for Jeff's posts, not the critters infesting the comments. So I don't really care, but there are occassional good comments. You just have to wade through a bunch of tripe to get there, which is no different than the rest of the internet.

call yourself what you want. I was attacked and I am defending myself as I see fit. Yes you are correct this is childish. However I would'nt dream of hijacking a Jeff thread if it pertained to something, but this is just another open thread with Shrub swinging his dick in everyone's face. Sorry I had a hand in degenerating it to that.

It seems a discussion of Globalized Syndicated Drug Dealing is not complete without a discussion of Afghanistan.

Christian Parenti has penned an excellent article for The Nation entitled Taliban Rising.

Here's the link:

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20061030/parenti

Of interesting note, apparently Frist mentioned something to the effect that the Taliban should be reinstated, only to retract, or modify his comments once they received scrutiny.

Would it be a kinder, gentler Taliban....meaning more amiable to Corporate Interests? Can't crack down on Opium production again, can you, after several years of record production and profits...unless, of course, the Global Syndicate purposely had the Taliban clamp down on production in the 1990's in order to manipulate supply and demand.

In the least, we all know there is more here than meets the eye...as there always is.

That's an interesting picture, for a number of reasons. Jeff, is it at all photo shopped, may I ask?

Look at the lightly shaded area above Dubya's head. It's shaped very much like the state of Texas. Also, speaking of Dubya, the window is shaped like a block lettered "D" with Dubya's face serving as the doughnut whole.

Shrub is an obvious jammer of this thread - I would imagine he gets paid to do it. IC could easily be the same. It's a shame but most people here seem to understand the situation. The best thing is to let him do his thing - he's got to eat after all and he may be desperate for money - and work round him. He's amongst the first of a new breed - the digital info warrior or mercenary - and I find it interesting to watch this new 'art' develop on this and other blogs. Makes it seem more real somehow. Don't see why it's not possible to block his IP but presumably these are switched frequently to stop this defence.

There is stuff all sense of humour left in the world. I know hoaxing bomb threats can get a bit stressful for everyone who's not in on it.

But weren't net hoax's a whole different order of business?

The international drug trade is a real interesting mess..

I know that in Australia there was a heroin epidemic, the death toll from OD's was comparable to the death toll from car accidents.

However by the end of the 90s/2000, Heroin had reached drought proportions. It hasn't returned to the use levels in the 90s. But there is another substance competeing successfully. Chrystal meth.

Funny, a friend of mine who grew up in W Germany used to score Afghani hash via East german soldiers, who used to swap weapons and ammo for hash, then sell it via W Berlin. He didn't get it directly off the soldiers himself, but claims to have been one step, removed, his contact brought the gear off the E German soldiers.

At some point I came across something linking Promis to of all things Nugen Hand bank.

I may have seen it here since, but many years ago when Robert Maxwell disappeared/went swimming was when this info was around. This was before the internet, and a lifetime ago. I can't remember any of the detail unfortunately...

I dunno about this source, always seemed a bit weird to me but this is interesting:

Talks about the death of some journo/columnist from Chicago, Steve Neal.

>>Neal was reportedly inquiring into what, if anything, the Bush Justice Department is doing in investigating the criminal role of Jim Thompson, former Illinois Governor, and for several years now Chairman of the huge worldwide law firm, Winston & Strawn and Thompson is a Hollinger official supposedly involved in supervising the auditing of the firm's funds. [In 1994, we did a one-hour documentary on our public access Cable TV Program in Chicago, showing Thompson's role in a secret inner unit of his lawfirm, not doing law work, but reportedly deeply involved in handling huge funds from dope trafficking worldwide. Several employees of the firm confirmed the validity of our documentary. Thompson is also a key operative of the gay underground government and media cult, a corrupt operation mentioned elsewhere on various websites posting our stories,<<

"Our usual response is that you have made it clear that you consider this whole matter a heart-warming story of two sleazy, spivvy, contemptible people, who enjoyed a fraudulent and unjust elevation; were exposed, and ground to powder in a just system; have been ostracized, and largely impoverished; and that I am on my way to the prison cell where I belong."The rough facts are that I am an honest businessman; the chances of my committing an illegality are less than zero," Black says, adding that his accusers are conducting "a prolonged assassination of careers and reputations."

From here:

http://www.thenextagenda.ca/tag/conrad%20black

I only left it in coas I thought this sounded funny:

"... the chances of my committing an illegality are LESS THAN ZERO, ..."

I couldn't find any trace of this Johnson boy, and it's pretty unusual for a missing child to have no online mention whatsoever. He's not even in the Nat'l Center for Missing & Exploited Children database. It's as if someone gave up on ever finding him. His mother seemed to hint that his stepfather was somehow involved in and/or responsible for his disappearance.

Is it just me, or is this thread a bit frayed? I can understand folks not being interested in reading a bunch of bickering and back-biting, but to imply that there is no serious discussion to be found here is nonsense. If the problem is the friendly banter that occasionally ensues, I see even less reason for complaint--what's the harm?

I will grant the point that great tracts of cut & paste are usually without merit, but Jeff has stepped in and wielded the editor's scalpel and given fair warning on this. Therefore, since we know that Jeff is minding the store, all these calls for policing of the comment fields are themselves superfluous. It's a fine line between wit & rancor at times, and we're all prone to the occasional passionate excess--being human and all--but what noble purpose is there to be found in whining? Or in talking about who's friendly with whom? Are we men or are we hens? (Pardon the implied chauvinism, ladies; it was the idiom, not the gender stereotype I was after.) So peace-out, boys & girls, and lighten up already.

it seems to me that with these two pieces of public acknoledgement + what most here historically know to be the ways of the "secret team" - it should be taken as a given that a certain percentage of just about everything on the web is some sort of half-truth - intentional or not. there is a lot of learning going on - and sometimes all the pieces connect don't quite connect.

when i first started looking around the darker corners of the world as we don't publically know it, i found myself off on some unweildy paths to information, mostly true but somethings - not true. it takes a certain amount of time and/or a certain amout of willingness to entertain far-out ideas while checking in with the gut to determine the difference. what does the gut say - true or not true? we all can listen to bodily clues more closely for a lot of overall benefit.

pointing out a disinfo agent over and over and over again seems to be behavior that is nothing more than that of a kid in a third grade class that likes to raise his hand and tattle on everyone incessently.

as the air force link states: "What I see in the future is true cross-domain integration, to deliver effects, like we deliver in air and space, where the commander has at his disposal, truly sovereign options, as stated in our mission, which is the ability to do whatever we want, wherever we want, whenever we want, and however we want -- kinetically, and nonkinetically and at the speed of sound and at the speed of light."

it's something we're obviously going to have to get used to on the web.

Have you considered the possibility that the presence of such circle-jerks as those going on above might be what's making Blog Leader ill?

I am reminded of a certain Monty Python sketch:

"Will that be the five minute argument or the full hour?"

Shoot me, but I don't think Mr. Wells entered the blogging arena to mediate pissy exchanges between 'who-knows-who' and his dance partner 'who-knows-what'. (For the sake of clarity, let me also state for the record, this is a general comment to the assembled and not aimed at any individual[s].)

I've been participating in text-based for a LONG time (since the 1980's) and the phenom I am witnessing here is as old as the format -- and also its (possessive form, no apostrophe) most serious limitation.

The regulars know who they are, and their easy, practiced banter often seems a direct affront to an "outsider" wandering in looking for attention, justice, or to simply stir up some shit. As ever in social circles, the burden is on the "new guy" to fit in or stand out. If they are a shit-swizzle, the mix usually smells much like this. It stinks no matter which way you stir it. If not, they eventually settle down and find their own way to contribute to the local lexicon.

For all I know, EVERY damned one of you is full of it -- and/or working for psy-ops somewhere (another consideration in the net-era) -- so I fact check the lot with self-study anyway. Learned that lesson a LONG time ago via things like "Zinn-free" textbooks back in the school daze.

I suspect Jeff chooses to leave the comment function enabled because his subject matter and style almost demand such room to expand around the speculative webs he spins.

Anyone who's sniffed these sorts of fumes before is likely also aware of the most effective fire-fighting method: pull a Dalai Lama. Stand and smile in the general direction of the loudest defender. There is no rule of law or common sense requiring you to engage.

Of course, such ridiculous wastes of bandwidth DO reduce the greater value of RI as both a resource and as a haven for those who would color outside the lines and use purple for clouds and other such aberrant behavior.

All the sadder for Jeff, whose only "job" here is to enlighten and inform, and perhaps to facilitate the scatter of ideas that results. It's (contracted form) not to chastise those among us who don't need lines to draw or guide the color blind to the chartreuse crayon.

Stop looking up synonyms for "asswipe" in the Roget's, say your piece, and be done with it. If you don't like another poster's ideas or style, it IS possible to say so without resorting to taking the piss. If you feel strongly enough that you need to fling a little feces, send 'em and effin' e-mail and hash it out there.

pointing out a disinfo agent over and over and over again seems to be behavior that is nothing more than that of a kid in a third grade class that likes to raise his hand and tattle on everyone incessently.

I understand your point and I will bear it in mind in future, but I think it is not entirely fair. I myself have been taken in by some seriously damaging disinformation in the last few years and that is one of the reasons I feel so strongly about refuting it. I got taken in by the Pentagon missile hoax for a good while, and I also got taken in by some of the stuff about Mike Ruppert, which is why I sprouted that big red "Mike Ruppert disinfo" button that got pushed the other day and led to all this.

It doesn't actually matter to me whether every disinfo agent gets exposed or not. What matters is that they are prevented from operating effectively.

Personally I've found this experience quite instructive. What you say about the gut is quite correct. As Kathleen Sullivan pointed out when Jeff interviewed her, psychopaths cannot accurately fake compassion or sincerity because they just don't understand it. It was very interesting to see how IC/Shrubageddon would in various ways try to mimic the style of other posters once they realised that the puerile jokes and personal insults, (the things that come easily to psychopaths) weren't working. IC lambasted me over my contempt for logic, the very same charge I had made against IC. And now IC has reinvented itself the voice of moderation, picking up on the tone of Vemrion's post. There is an important lesson here.

Postrchild, I probably don't need to say this to you because you seem to have realised this for yourself, but I will anyway, just in case. Please be very careful about flinging insults about, particularly when they are wrapped in saucy language. I actually thought you were one of "them" for a while because of the tone of some of your posts. The more thoughtful, well-researched and earnest the rest of the thread the more incoherent and irrational the disinfo will look.

I think it's time for me to bow out and get back to the real world for a while ;-)

Anonymous One,aside from all the banter,I think the picture at the start of all this is,GW looks like he's getting his monkey spanked by the guy next to him and that head looks a lot like crazy Carl's.I hope they start handing out the DMT soon,"Good night,and Good luck.",later.

Mohamed Atta & the Venice Flying Circus [teaser of the larger one above]Three of the four terrorist pilots learned to fly in tiny Venice, Florida, a sleepy retirement community with the second oldest population of any city ...www.MadcowProd.com - 5 min - Oct 13, 2006

well I am certainly not a "Them". I am just a lonely person in the world trying to figure out whats trying to "get me" before it "Gets me." My insults have never before been brandished until now in the face of idiotic adversity. I have posted many times to this board on both sides and frankly I don't try to start anything. Actually I take alot of unpopular posts I read here and try to glean useful info from them or at least try to point out its merits. I am no disinfo agent, at best I could be labeled Devil's Advocate, but this is only in the best interest of discourse, and further enlightenment. My sincere apologies to those who's blogging experience was diminished by the previous exchange betwen myself and the Shrub. I won't be lowering myself to his depths anymore. My elevator is broken.

See, it posts like the post above that gripe my fanny. Why must we return to 911 time and time again? The discussion of a Globalized Drug Syndicate is much greater than the events of 911.

That is precisely why I supplied the link about the Taliban Rising in Afghanistan. To co-opt a phrase already co-opted, Afghanistan is ground zero, currently, in this discussion. It is, as most of you are aware, one of the main reasons we stopped off there on our way to Iraq. In fact, one could assert that Iraq is a huge distraction from what's transpiring in Afghanistan....and, perhaps, purposely so.

It behooves all of us to stay keenly focused on the ball, and Afghanistan comprises the seams of that ball.

The funny thing is, they could reinstate the Taliban and spin it to where the majority of the American people wouldn't care one way or the other....and that's the most unnerving and disparaging part for me......the fact that ordinary people, and I use that term loosely, don't give a rat's ass, either way.

I have nothing to hang my head about, whatsoever. Anyone astute enough to have followed the squabble between postrchild and myself knows that I was defending myself. He called my posts worthless, and when I called him on it, he threatened me physically. I'm stunned that no one here has admonished him for such behavior, besides me. It leads me to believe that in a Milgram sort of way, the lot of you condone such treatment of me. He called me every name in the book, physically threatened me, insulted my wife....he even brought my daughter into it. That is despicable behavior....and it's actually quite disheartening that you all have gained some kind of satisfaction from it. And IC wonders why I have no hope for humanity? It's for reasons such as this.

I will have you know, IC, Richard, Jules, Jon, Starroute, Sounder, Atem, Silly Rabbit, Amanda, Rapt and anyone else I forgot, I can stand it alone, as I have, but I would never hesitate to defend your honor if someone crossed the line like postrchild did with me. I would know that my silence would mean nothing short of advocacy for such treatment.

What strikes me after reading all of this bickering (which is impossible not to do when I am trying to read the "real" stuff), is the enormous sense of self-importance displayed by all of the bickering parties.

Disinfo agents sent to disrupt the comments section of this blog (which, I love, Jeff, please don't stop) seems more than a little ridiculous to me. And the way that the charge of "disinfo agent" is so quickly flung around is reminiscent of a witch hunt or a "Red Scare". I suppose every group has its label with which to plaster on perceived enemies, whether it be "terrorist", "commie" or now "disinfo agent".

You know the real threat? It's the info agents.....they get completely overlooked in this sea of disinfo agents.

You have to deploy triple reverse psychology in order to get to the "truth." The real kicker is, though, what if there is no real "truth" and this is all just a guess? If so, info agent versus disinfo agent is a rather meaningless bifurcation.

The think the appeals to Jeff are rather silly and immature. It seems a number of people want to make "this place" there's. I have no such wish. I love the diversity here.....and I appreciate the obtuse one liners and off-thewall posts every bit as much as the academically researched and referenced posts.

Why can't the complainers just let this place be what it will be....and quit trying to make it comform to your image. Deal with your control issues and quit projecting your inner conflict into conflicts with others. If you don't like, or agree with a post, attack the content of the post, not the poster. I shouldn't have to tell you that.

Once again, Jules, I'm not being confrontational, but would you please clarify what I asked you to clarify earlier about my comments in regards to the NFL Hoax and the other Mr. Wells. You mentioned them in the same breath to make a point, but I didn't catch the point, and I believe it was because of my misunderstanding of the jargon you used.

Cleaning your aura is essential for spiritual hygiene. By cleaning your aura on a daily basis, you protect yourself against psychic attacks and illnesses. A clean aura is charismatic and will encourage better relations with others. People will naturally be more considerate and grant favors to one whose aura is clean and radiating with energy. Here is where we influence people and get them to do as we wish. Negative thoughtforms used in black magick and generated from the ill will, jealousy or anger of others attach to one’s aura and invite misfortune- accidents, illnesses and so forth. Cleaning the aura only takes a few minutes a day and is well worth it. When one is ill, depressed the aura is dirty and can take many meditations to clean. What is within reflects in one’s aura.

Ideally, one should clean the aura twice a day- upon awaking and before falling asleep at night. Cleaning your aura before you go to sleep is essential. The more people you come into contact with throughout the day, the more thoughtforms and energy will attach to your astral body and result in problems. People’s astral bodies intermingle on a daily basis. Like viruses and physical germs, the astral body picks up energy.

To clean your aura:

1. Visualize a bright light all over yourself. Hold this for One or more minutes. It doesn’t take very long.2. Now, visualize the light even brighter and more intensified on each of your chakras, like a miniature sun.

That’s all there is to it. If you notice your aura or chakras are dirty, repeat the process. This exercise can alert you to any negative energy or psychic attacks and prevent them from manifesting.

I just got back this evening from a trip down to my local international pub here in Seoul...where I had a very good conversation with an Aussie about American psyops and the paranormal, and had a very sad confrontation with a US army seargent major who just arrived here two months ago after a tour in Iraq where I learned "they love us"...but seemingly wanted to bash my expat "leftist" (but Texan/American Indian) face in...maybe it was the comment about C. Rice on the big screen TV with the sound turned off and I said, "read my lips...lie, lie, lie..." but he was kind enough not to punch me...argh...another loss of expressing my Texan identity...

Anyway...it was sad because he was so ignorant...I feel for these guys...I really do...so much brainless patriotism...I tried to remind him he, along with el presidente took an oath to uphold the Constitution...clueless...again, argh...

No wonder we're ****ed...Virginia...what were you doing when you were supposed to be teaching this guy during eighth grade civics class?

At any rate...I just got the new Marrs book "The Terror Conspiracy" from amazon.com...and every package I've gotten from them for the last year or so has been opened by the Korean postal service...oh well...and I recommend it if for nothing else the appendix by Barbara Honegger, entitled "The Pentagon Attack Papers." Barbara is the senior military affairs journalist at the Naval Post Graduate School...a great read. And having said that..."hi" out there to ya'll at NSA whom I used to work with...hope you're having a good day (or evening, whatever)...

Establishing control over one’s emotions is very important. Out of control, emotions can be detrimental to one’s health and well-being, and at worst can be lethal. In a situation where panic takes control and gives way to terror, where fear is completely out of control; one can freeze up when immediate action is called for and wind up dead. Out of control, emotions interfere with and even prevent rational thought. Here the panic/terror takes over one’s entire being. Control of emotions and having a calm mind can mean the difference between life and death.

Worry does nothing to change a problem. It drains energy and can cause serious health problems. Again, the mind is out of control, as the same thoughts compulsively repeat themselves over and over, accomplishing nothing but upset. Bad situations and problems need to be rationally thought out for possible solutions and then let go.Constantly rehearsing a bad incident over and over isn’t going to solve the problem. This will only create other problems. Stress tears down the body and mind. Mental and psychological pain can be just as bad as physical pain. A strong mind can refuse this pain. When the mind is calm, often solutions will present themselves and problems can be worked out. We are also more open to the spirit world when we are calm, often we can find help here. If we calmly ask our mind for answers regarding a certain problem before we fall asleep at night, we will usually have answers when we awaken, or sometimes answers will come to us in a dream.

nunnatsunega,Nice snapshot. I've got another, similar and yet more promising little anecdote. A guy I grew up with has a deeply military family--a Navy SEAL, an Army Intelligence officer, and a Ranger just in his generation. He, my friend, took a lot of shit for hanging out with the hippies when we were in high school, and I often wondered how he balanced the two poles in his life. Thirty years later I ran into him again, and the façade's all cracked, the underpinning splintered. Two of the scary brothers have renounced the whole tradition; one is now a missionary/aid worker in Africa, while the other runs some kind of counseling service for the killing machines who want to be human again. The most surprising thing in the story is that there's no bad blood between these guys who've finally seen the light and the small fragment that still hangs with hawks. The hawks know they've lost not just this "war" but the whole murderous way of life. The yellow ribbon forest is thinning, and that's a deforestation we can celebrate.

As I've mentioend before, my wife works at the Montessori School attended by my two children. A teacher recently returned to the school after a year's stint in Houston....her husband was relocated there by his employer, so she obviously moved with him and taught at a Montessori School while there......a Christian Montessori School..which is interesting, in and of itself.

Anyhow, the following she related to my wife concerning a particular experience.

As part of a lesson she was giving, she exposed the children to Ghandi and his use of Non-Violent Resistance. It wasn't the focus of the lesson, but merely a part of it. Well.....the following day one of the children's parents calls and asks for a consultation with this teacher. In the meeting they berate her up and down and order her, in no uncertain terms, to never expose their child to such utter garbage again.

The Father told the teacher that he comes from a family of warriors, and no child of his, especially his son, is going to be exposed to Pacifistic Propaganda.

This teacher is an amazingly wonderful and genuine person with a great heart...and a great way with children. She's from Argentina. She told my wife she was genuinely afraid and completely unnerved by it all. The Administration, as you could probably guess, took his side and admonished her.

I'll repeat what I said before. Pat Tillman was an Idiot, and a murderer, regardless of what he thought of the conflict. He could have refused, as any Noble and Brave man would, but he didn't, and I think it reveals the lack of character of those who hold him up as some kind of hero. That's no hero....and, in fact, appealing to the concept/construct of hero is part and parcel of "our" problem.

Two of the scary brothers have renounced the whole tradition; one is now a missionary/aid worker in Africa

Is it Christian Missionary work, IC, may I ask? If so, I don't necessarily grant this carte blanche as a good deed. Thee are countless examples that such missionary work is highly exploitive in many ways.

A good read on such is Barbara Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible,.

I know of people in my own personal life who have done the same. One guy I know was an devout Atheist, if that's possible, in high school and joined the Marines when he graduated. He's now a Christian Missionary in Thailand and spouting scripture everytime you hear from him.

I don't call that a necessarily healthy transition. Certainly better than murdering people for hire, no doubt, but it's replacing one source of blind faith in authority with another....and it's that penchant for blind faith that's at the root of it all.

Truthfully Shrub, I've been in awe through this whole thread. Generally I have to ramble on about shit or Santa for 3 paragraphs before I piss people off as much as you do with just a few sarcastic comments.

Anymore, I just don't really see the point to posting anything here unless I'm extremely bored.

It isn't as if any real investigation into anything is going on here. It's basically a group of folk who sit at their computers obsessively staring at badly pixellated videos of 911 while trawling through mountains of news articles for tidbits of info that reinforce their particular worldview. Anyone who offers alternative views quickly becomes a "disinfo agent" in service to "CIA masters."It is quite the hoot pal.

I'm still trying to understand why folk who feel that the media is a co-opted corporate propaganda machine continually link to news articles. To be fair, this isn't behavior exclusive to left leaning progressives either. Practically every right-wing "blog" does the same thing. They just replace the "corporate media" tag with a "liberal media" tag & then merrily link to news story after news story.

I also enjoy the "end is near" fog that encircles this place. The end is near, but not near enough to stop a book deal, eh? It reminds me of a book I'm reading called 'Skipping Towards Armageddon' by Michael Standaert. It deals with the LeHaye Left Behind doom & gloom publishing monolith. Mr. LeHaye sells the same 'sky is falling' chicken little babble as he simultaneously builds a huge & profitable stock portfolio. Nothing like investing in the future to prove your belief in no future, eh?

& finally, always remember Shrub, that sticks & stones will break your bones but names will never hurt you. If you believe otherwise you're just falling for a load of politically correct horseshit created by people whose feelings are way too damn delicate for their own good. Also, I'd be willing to bet the farm that anyone who threatens your wife & child on an internet comment board would find their tongue magically tied in knots if you were standing right in front of them.Peace, Shrub.

How is your son doing in Cross Country? What's his best time thus far? I ran it one year in High School. I completed the first meet in something like 19:42 and promptly quit. It about killed me. Believe it, or not, I'm a better runner now than I was then......because it's a matter of mind over body, and my mind is much more powerful now than it was then.

So, Imagine you are a smoke jumper in Montana and you get recruited by the CIA and next thing you know you are fighting a war in Laos. this was early to mid 60's. The Company had a certain legitimacy. By late 60's early 70's, after all those ear pelts dangling from the necks of lurps on TV, the CIA was run off of most campuses it tried to recruit (hit one of them myself with a snowball in the back of the knee). Now it is like a viable career option for 20 somethings. War on terror. Protect the homeland. Move large amounts of white product for mass murderers, future presidents and billionaires. Write a book. Make a movie. God bless America. More war soon. Was in a plant yesterday where they provide canteens for US military. HUGE HUGE orders coming in. Can't make 'em fast enough. will they raise the draft age to 50?

We fight this fascist regime and their globalist controllers together or we submit to enslavement as we bicker over the wedges that the elites [or easily trimmed back Shrub(ageddons)] have supplied for us...

Thanks for asking Shrub. My son, like you, was doing piss poor at first but, & I give the kid tons of credit, he stuck it out to the end. His recovery time shrunk to a negligible length by the end so I know the running accomplished what I wanted, which was to help make his body stronger. He's not the fastest right now, but that's completely unimportant to me, although it pisses him off.I just try to stress to him that he's a constantly changing work in progress &, if he wants something bad enough, he possesses all the internal tools to make that happen with the necessary work.Being discouraged is totally natural, I just don't want him thinking that his discouragement is the sum total of what he's capable of.Overall, I want him to be what he wants to be not what I want him to be. Honestly, parents who vicariously live through their children just creep me out to no end so I try to avoid the typical obsessive/compulsive win at all costs father behavior.I think it comes from being 12 years old & watching a father beat the shit out of his kid because he didn't pitch a winning baseball game.

Shrub,Yeah, the missionary thing wasn't my first choice of alternatives for the reformed bloodluster, but from the little my friend has told me, it's not the typical psychic rape/colonial subjugation model, but some vaguely Unitarian deal. Unlike their similar-sounding cousins, Moon's Unification mind control outfit, the Unitarians aren't bad as far as organized religions go. I think they let you keep whatever belief system you inherited and just layer some ethical precepts on top of those structures.

At any rate, Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible is a good read on the subject, although it doesn't really come close to Robbins' Another Roadside Attraction, which, to my mind, is the last word on the subject, insofar as any subject can have a last word. In fairness to our host, Anxious Gravity also puts the human into the crazy business of prosyletizing religions. In a strange-loop echo of Oarwell's recent YouTube link to Frank Zappa's "Honey Don't You Want A Man Like Me?", the last verse of which goes:

He just got in his car,But the battery's deadSo he asks to use the phone,And she gives him some head...

there's a scene in AG which I won't reveal but which combines the feed-your-head motifs quite interestingly.

This is the "Director's Final Cut" authorized version of Aaron Russo's documentary, America: Freedom To Fascism (AFTF). It is being uploaded to Google Video for the first time during the evening of October 19-20th, 2006. (Actually a previous version GOOGLE PURGED when it got there.) Aaron has listened to everyone's feedback - volunteers, students, lovers of freedom & liberty, young and old alike - and, true to his word, he is putting this up "for free" on Google Video knowing that the hour has come for Americans to either be awakened to restore the Republic or be swept aside by the dark global forces of fascism that seeks to enslave mankind.http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4312730277175242198

& one other thing, a while back I said that I thought we were far too sophisticated to fall for a Millgram type experiment. I now realize that I was, once again, eating my own shoe leather.

"Nearly three years after an 18-year-old high school senior was strip-searched and sexually degraded for hours at a McDonald's restaurant in Mount Washington, a jury this week will be asked to decide if a former prison guard from Florida is responsible for her humiliation.

David R. Stewart of Fountain, Fla., is scheduled for trial tomorrow in Bullitt County on charges of impersonating a police officer and soliciting sodomy through a bizarre hoax he allegedly perpetrated on April 9, 2004, from a pay phone hundreds of miles from Kentucky.

His lawyer, Steve Romines, will try to convince the jury that Stewart, 39, who worked previously as a propane truck driver, a mall security guard and church janitor, is too unsophisticated to have pulled off the call, which included the background noise of a police scanner and the mention of real McDonald's executives' names. "

--snip--

"Stewart is charged with "commanding or encouraging" another person to engage in "deviate sexual intercourse" and other crimes as the alleged mastermind behind the four-hour detention of Louise Ogborn, a counter worker whom the caller accused of stealing a customer's purse.

If convicted, Stewart could be sentenced to more than 15 years in prison.

According to video and court records, Ogborn was forced to take off her clothes by assistant manager Donna Summers, then led through an embarrassing series of exercises before being forced to sodomize Summers' then-fiance, Walter W. Nix Jr., whom Summers had called in to watch the teen.

Both Summers and Nix have said they thought the caller, who identified himself as "Officer Scott," was a policeman, and that they followed his commands."

Half the time when you "dialogue" with yourselve(s), like the recent Shrub/Richard "exchanges", there isn't even enough time between your respective posts for you to have read the post and then typed a response. You must just keep typing non-stop.

Tell me, are your strings pre-written? Or do you just improvise as you type along? Is that why you sometimes forget to change persona, and talk to "Richard" as Richard, and to "Shrub" as Shrub? You've just forgotten which annonying persona you've adopted for the moment.

Why don't you see a shrink?

Or does the USAF or NSA or whomEVER actually pay you to do this sort of crap? I find that hard to believe, but seeing as how they waste billions all over the place, I guess it's possible.

Of course, we know that beyond tiresome is refreshing....so, thanks for the compliment. Sure, it was an obtuse and unorthodox way of putting it, but it's the thought that counts....and the thought that's appreciated.

You've just forgotten which annonying persona you've adopted for the moment.

Well, I can't speak for my other MK Ultra Alters (but, I will anyway), i.e. Jules and Richard, but the latest incarnation, postrchild, who you so appropriately added to the list, has been our greatest challenge, to date, for obvious reasons. We knew we were treading into dangerous and murky waters with the physical threatening business, but it's a chance we felt compelled to take.....and, we feel it paid off quite nicely.

Thanks for acknowledging us....but, please, could you include all members next time. We're a sensitive group, and as I'm sure you can understand, nobody likes to feel left out....not even those of us who work for the NSA.

Shurb, you WISH you were I.C. Although I might only agree with I.C. around half the time, I.C. is obviously intelligent and thoughtful. You couldn't even come close to I.C.'s level of rhetoric, for better and for worse, in your own best wet dream.

Oh, come on, Mort. IC just so happens to be in your good graces right now. As soon as he pisses you off again, and I'm sure that will be sooner, rather than later, he will be back in your Albert Pike Shit House again.

Shrubbage, Wrong you are, as usual. As I said, as multiply-afflicted with voices in your head as you seem to be, you still ain't I.C., though at times I'd surely bet a few bucks that you were Jeff. (Now ain't that a mind fuck?) Either way, as the shrub, you can't whack your way out of the tiniest thicket of proper prose. Your "literary" skills are beyond limited. They are disabled. Keep dreaming.

Sorry to have to cut off this pointless dialogue. I'm sure others are as bored with it as I am. And some of us have real lives, too. Maybe you should try it some time.

Breaking News!! Borat wants Madonna to adopt his Grandchild. He's going to put chocolate all over his grandson's face to make him more appealing to her.

I think it's a Freemason Plot....what's you say?

You're correct about IC's prose. He's quite talented, and I would do well to try in vain to emulate his form.

Like William F. Buckley, IC could tell you he passed gas so grandiloquently, you would think it's something wonderful.

But, that's not what impresses me about IC. In fact, sometimes IC's prolixity can be an impediment to my dissection and absorption of his meaning. I don't mean that as an insult, by the way. It is the God's (which one, I'm not sure) Honest Truth.

I so feel that love you're always ranting about. You exude it like boiled eggs exude the smell of Sulphur.

At best this site has been a place for people to compare notes, to find out that their secret dreams and fears aren't theirs alone, to toy with viewpoints different from their habitual premises. A safe space, a sandbox (in the technical computer sense), a controlled experiment.

At worst, it's just a lot of people shouting past each other with nobody listening. It's been like that far too much, lately, and I'm not sure why. Jeff being largely MIA has a lot to do with it of course, but is unlikely to be the complete explanation.

One possibility is that gathering-places like this one arise out of the collective consciousness for certain, specific purposes -- and once those purposes are fulfilled, they either die or become irrelevant. If the central metaphor of this blog had to do with seeing the Cheney's of this world in terms of child molestation and black magic, then that function may be far less vital now that the closet doors of corruption and pedophilia are being flung wide open and the Republican Party is going into full meltdown.

Without a central organizing metaphor, it's no wonder if the most we can do is mutter individualistically about 911, or the Taliban, or globalization, or whatever takes our fancy.

Of course, it's also possible that this period of enforced absence will prove to have been an opportunity for Jeff to recharge his batteries and come up with a devastating new metaphor for the discussion to re-organize around.

Either way, things find their own channel, and it's not worth regretting. As the saying goes, "The dogs bark but the caravan moves on."

Thanks Morty 'ol puddin, 'ol pal. Everytime one of you delusional weirdos lets your crackpot inner dialogue seep out into public view with your Shrub/Richard/Jules hallucinations it just makes reading this comment section so much easier.You've just joined the ever increasing list of babbling RI comment board dunderheads whose inciteless incites can be safely skimmed over at top scroll speed.

"some of us have real lives"

What a fucking hoot pal. I'm sure your stellar life involves huge dollops of psychotropic meds that you, being the bad boy rebel feared by governments that you are, haven't been taking lately.

For shame little mental case. For shame.

Mommy would be soooooooooo disappointed in you.

"Half the time when you "dialogue" with yourselve(s), like the recent Shrub/Richard "exchanges", there isn't even enough time between your respective posts for you to have read the post and then typed a response. You must just keep typing non-stop."

I see 'ol Portly Morty never progressed passed a 2nd grade reading level did he?

Poor dysfunctional slow-witted friendless Morty.

Gee, it kind of proves that you're a fucking idiot.

On second thought, you're just an idiot.Everyone here knows that there isn't much fucking going on in that 'real life' of yours.

What a strange thing this ritualized antagonism is: the more it's addressed, the more it grows. Here's a thought. I've recently had my entire worldview turned upside-down by reading Susan Blackmore's Meme Machine, the basic premise of which is that we are nothing more than vehicles for memes, which can be loosely and imprecisely defined as ideas, concepts, songs, whole books, etc, but are probably best understood as coherent units of thought, similar to Pound's concept of ideogrammic language. At any rate, the theory is that we are the product of two separate systems of natural selection, the first replicator that drove evolution was genetics, while the second, newer replicator (only 2-3 million years old) is memetics. Blackmore says that the memes are, like Richard Dawkins' selfish genes, only interested in perpetuating themselves, regardless of the consequences to the hosts (us).

Since everything we think, including the systems by which we try to make sense of the world and our experience in it, come to us through imitation (just as I'm explaining "Blackmore's" idea), wouldn't it be easier, and certainly more honest, to address the memes driving us than the hosts they've commandeered to get them in circulation? That way, both the disinformationist meme and the intelligent commentator fictions can be dropped as irrelevancies. Who cares what package something comes in, when it's only the thing being sent that is "real"?

I realize that this way of looking at things can be deeply unsettling and for some folks very unsatisfying, but ego-death and assimilating the ephemeral nature of free will are both highly liberating experiences, from what I understand. Sure, you have to give up any notion of your particular contributions to the group mind, but in exchange you can begin to appreciate your connection with the Mind of Mankind. Most of us know that Edison was more collaborator and thief than Great Man--the vehicle called James Burke has demonstrated this quite clearly in "his" zany Connections series, and I think that we naturally intuit that change occurs through a dizzying web of inter-connected memes, all mindlessly propagating themselves and unknowingly producing ever more complex patterns and structures.

If we could view ourselves as viruses rather than potential Great Men, we might actually derive some wider understanding of what goes on around us and in so doing avoid the trap of endless acrimony in these discussions. Just a thought (but it's not mine, really.)

Great concept, IC, but tell me, what meme was circulating in the McDonald's that day in regards to the article Richard posted?

Sorry, I can't avoid juxtapositions.

Why don't we just cut to the chase and say why we are here. I'll start. Here's a few reasons, but I surmize it's more complex than even this:

1.) Glean unique insights.2.) Ventilate3.) Learn4.) Share5.) Connect

Now, if I apply why I come here to Starroute's Theory, it may be true that everything's starting to sound like a record in a rut, and therefore, #1 is eliminated....and, perhaps #2, but I don't think entirely. Perhaps it has a rhythym all it's own...one that's unpredictable. I don't think Jeff sets the rhythym, instead, I think he provides the port key.

Either way, for me, at least, #'s 2,4,and 5 are always constants, but I don't think they are for everyone. For some, it's just #1 and #3, and that's fine, but please don't disrespect me if I require more than those two.

My problem with "bookish" people is that they have a difficult time with #'s 2,4 and 5, and they therefore are disturbed by, and frown upon those who don't. They consider them a nuisance and in a graceful, yet condescending manner, belittle those who are just trying to be human.

One possibility is that gathering-places like this one arise out of the collective consciousness for certain, specific purposes -- and once those purposes are fulfilled, they either die or become irrelevant.

It sounds like it has been pretty clear to some of the people here for some time, although it has only just become clear to me, that nearly all the jamming on this blog is the work of a single author working under an increasingly long list of pseudonyms, of which Mort Jacobs is only the latest. He/she may have other collaborators contributing from time to time, but I find it hard to say for sure - a comment that I may consider to be unhelpful or misleading may be someone else's honestly held point of view. I'm thinking particularly of the "Stop the bickering! You're all as bad as each other!" kind of posts. Anyway, the point I am making is that it is not a general loss of interest that is sending the comments section downhill. It is mainly the malicious activity of just one person that is doing it.

What motivates that person? Although I had not really thought of this earlier, I think we should consider the possibility that the jammer is, as one poster has implied, a lone nut with a personality disorder and some kind of pension. In that case his/her activity doesn't really say anything about the relevance of this blog.

However if, as seems more likely to me, the jammer is earning a salary for what he/she is doing, then that would be clear proof that this blog is intensely important.

The question then would be "Would it be important enough that this obscure blog be jammed that a significant amount of time and money be devoted to doing so?"

If we consider (a) that Jeff clearly as a a formidable ability to join the dots and to express what he has discovered eloquently and even poetically, (b) that, before the jamming started in earnest, the discussions after each of Jeff's posts were often very fruitful in themselves, (d) that the people Jeff talks about have huge amounts of money at their disposal, (e) the consequences for these people, not only in terms of money and power, but also in terms of personal safety, if the kind of stories Jeff unearths ever were to enter the general public consciousness, and (f) that great oak trees grow from tiny acorns, then jamming this blog would seem like a fairly inexpensive form of insurance.

For better or for worse, I intervened to expose disinfo because I am convinced that what this blog is trying to do is still immensely important.

For any thin skinned, thick headed, sharp tongued, ill mannered, or childish posters who have nothing better to do than insult and offend all the readers here with their ill thought out and malicious clutter, I suggest you park your egos at the door and concentrate on the integrity and appropriateness of your own contributions to the matters at hand rather than wasting space trying to second guess or cast aspersions on anyone else's.

To be blunt, it serves no usefull purpose and the only credibility or ulterior motives that are called into question by such disingenuous remarks are your own.

This place, just like the real world in which we we live, certainly doesn't need any additional help from anyone to merely make matters worse.

The proverbial "elephant" in our midst, both here and at large, that is obscuring and distorting our views of one another isn't going to be gone anytime soon without some honest humility, mutual respect and not a little co-operation if it is to be finally ushered out of the door.

Now everyone has their own quite unique and individual perspective on life just as everyone occupies their own quite unique place in time and space from which to have it. That's not news, that's reality.

So it should come as no great shock or profound revelation to anyone over the age of five that those perspectives can and do vary greatly as they must. If they didn't there'd be precious little worth sharing and no reason at all to be sharing any of it here.

Now the gravity and importance of most of the topics can and quite often is utterly depressing.

We must each do what we can to cope with our own doubts and fears and realize that they are common to us all. Tolerance and consideration for one another in light of that fact is the only way we can grapple with their discouraging nature.

It takes courage and bravery to speak what we believe to be the truth in the face of genuienly brutal and menacing prospects. Regardless of how anyone musters the courage to do that they are to be commended and respected for that effort alone.

Worthwile discussions require only an honest intention to have one. To increase our understanding by sharing our own and fairly considering the various points of view offered by others.

Everyone has ideosyncracies that can be just as irritating or frustrating as the next person and none of us is exempt from that. Being polite and refraining from making an issue out of them is only common courtesy. Trying to embarass them embarasses one and all.

"Offence" is always a two way street. None is ever given so much as it's taken. Kindly keep that in mind.

Richard, you're a good guy. I like you. We had a rocky start...but we came to respect each other. I don't know about you, but it gets tiresome listening to these preachers. I have to listen to them all day long...day in and day out....controlling, admonishing, preaching, posturing and politicking. So, Silverfox is right in that regard, yet he does what I have to listen to all day long.....preach. As Madonna said....Papa don't preach... Everywhere you go, people are trying to control you and talk down to you....and it's no different here, I suppose. I posted a number of talking points in a constructive manner, but no one pays attention to that, or responds to it. Instead, they want to berate us for defending ourselves, once again, from Mojo's persistent sniping. You know what, Richard? They're afraid of him, that's why. That's why I don't consider myself a lefty. They tend to roll on you in a pinch....leave you hangin...out to dry.

This is for you, Silverfox, because apparently you're having difficulty discerning amongst the various shades of gray. A nice dialogue was ensuing between various posters until Mojo (now Mort) posted this gem:

to Shrub/Richard/Jules/postrchild:

(and whoever else is in that dark room with you),

Half the time when you "dialogue" with yourselve(s), like the recent Shrub/Richard "exchanges", there isn't even enough time between your respective posts for you to have read the post and then typed a response. You must just keep typing non-stop.

Tell me, are your strings pre-written? Or do you just improvise as you type along? Is that why you sometimes forget to change persona, and talk to "Richard" as Richard, and to "Shrub" as Shrub? You've just forgotten which annonying persona you've adopted for the moment.

Why don't you see a shrink?

Or does the USAF or NSA or whomEVER actually pay you to do this sort of crap? I find that hard to believe, but seeing as how they waste billions all over the place, I guess it's possible.

Either way, it's beyond tiresome.

I'm going to ask you to quit acting like a parent and call out the perpetrator. He stifled positive momemtum...as has been his, and other Anony's goal for quite some time. So, don't you dare lump me in with them....and please refrain from talking to me, and others, as though you are somehow our parent. No need for Paternalism.....that's part of what's wrong with the world in which we discuss.

And, another thing. I am disgusted when people try to insult others by referring to them as children. Have you people no regard for children? I do, and I think you insult all children when you invoke your perceived status of them to derogatorily criticize others. I'm gald I'm still in touch with my inner child.....and I really feel for you who can't....because that's a sad thing...really. It's really quite sick and twisted, if you ask me. You're so preoccupied with them being molested, raped and killed, yet you invoke use their so-called lack of status and respect to criticize those you despise. Something's not quite right with that equation, IMHO.

If you wanted to get things back on track, Silverfox, as I was trying to do prior to Mojo/Mort's obfuscation, you could have addressed any number of the comments I made in this thread where I didn't have to defend myself. And, please, don't claim you can't find any because of everything else....because if that's the case, then you really don't give a shit anyway.

We need moe irreverence in this world, not less. In these times, irreverence, IRL, can and will land you in a heap of trouble, and that is increasingly going to be the case in regards to the Internet, as I have been saying as of late. Let's not self-impose restrictions on that irreverence before we are forced to two the line. This is the one place you're able to think freely, and irreverently, without suffering the harsh consequences if done so in your daily life.

Mr. Taibbi,Your glib conclusion that, “It may be that America has become too big and complicated for most people to deal with being part of. People are longing for a smaller, stupider reality” pretty much sounds like the self involved pretension of alot of pseudo-alternative music intellectuals circa early 90’s at many urban colleges and mudhoney/Sonic Youth shows. Save your pithy, clever entirely empty, pop-pyschological generalizations for you and your friends when you try and recreate that early 90’s“political awareness”. You’re a fool. An accurate appraisal of the conspiracy crowd should at least go beyond the tactical theories of planes, demolition, etc. Check out a guy by the name of Dave Emory or the website Rigorous Intuition in order to develop a larger context in order to understand the current political takeover. The learning curve in this sort of research is steep; don’t give up yet Taibbi, oh yea you can’t give up you obviously haven’t even started. And, while your at it, with your talent for communicating stunning “insights” could you right a column on Michael Chertoff’s role in defending terrorist connected- by the governments own admission- charities after 911? But, I guess that would mean you’d have to educate yourself beyond your drivel of demolitions, holograms, etc. Why don’t you write a real column on the conspiracy by investigating the claims of someone like Daniel Hopsicker. Oh yea, that would mean once again you’d have to go to madcowprod.com and actually investigate beyond your pretension. You’re fucking pathetic.

Shrub, I'm with you, pal. We did get off to a rocky start but that's way behind us .Hell, I haven't even posted on this board for a week. If you weren't on here I probably would have stayed off, but I just wanted to give a friendly hello to one of the few posters on here who I've come to view as a real living breathing human being instead of a block of text.But then the creepy chorus has to chime in with their disinfo crap & their Richard/Shrub crap.It's fucking annoying.I tried to counter this shit with humor once but I refuse to do it again.Bile is what they need so bile is what they'll get.I've got oceans of it inside me just aching to get out.

According to Silverfox though, I should just roll over & play nice.Sorry.Won't happen.Although, don't you find it quite amusing that a poster on a site that flirts with revolution finds trash talk offensive.It would interesting to see the look on the face of such a delicate soul when the billy clubs start wailing.Hey, maybe it'll be such a nice civilized touchy-feely revolution that all the stormtroopers will have to pull out is a picture of a billy club & everyone will be suitably cowed by the utter meanness of it all to just abandon ship & run home to mom.

This is America folks....an America where a guy with Parkinson's disease has to defend himself against a bloviating right-wing windbag about whether he exaggerated his tremoring or not.

If you think I disturb the ambiance in your comfy little cocoon, I suggest you shut off your little tv screen with text, contemplate your navel for a few hours & thenwake up, wise up & grow the fuck upcause the ugly beastie y'all want to beat your little fists against make me look a virginal choirboy .

"That's why I don't consider myself a lefty. They tend to roll on you in a pinch....leave you hangin...out to dry."

" And a vast paranoia sweeps across the landAnd America turns the attack on its Twin TowersInto the beginning of the Third World WarThe war with the Third World

And the terrorists in WashingtonAre shipping out the young menTo the killing fields again

And no one speaks

And they are rousting outAll the ones with turbansAnd they are flushing outAll the strange immigrants

And they are shipping all the young menTo the killing fields again

And no one speaks

And when they come to round upAll the great writers and poets and paintersThe National Endowment of the Arts of ComplacencyWill not speak

While all the young menWill be killing all the young menIn the killing fields again

So now is the time for you to speakAll you lovers of libertyAll you lovers of the pursuit of happinessAll you lovers and sleepersDeep in your private dreamNow is the time for you to speakO silent majorityBefore they come for you!"

Lawrence Ferlinghetti

"The birth of a nation of sheepThe deep deep sleep of Middle AmericaThe underground wave of feel-good fascismThe uneasy rule of the super-richThe total triumph of imperial AmericaThe final proof of our Manifest DestinyThe first loud cry of America über allesEchoing in freedom’s alleysThe last lament for lost democracyThe total triumph oftotalitarian plutocracy

CODA

Cut down cut down cut downCut down the grassrootsCut down those too wild weedsin our great agri-fields and golf coursesCut down cut down those wild sproutsCut down cut down those rank weedsPull down your vanity, man, pull downthe too wild buds the too wild shootsCut down the wild unruly vines & voicesthe hardy volunteers and pioneersCut down cut down the alien cornCut down the crazy introvertsTongue-tied lovers of the subjectiveCut down cut down the wild ones the wild spiritsThe desert rats and monkey wrenchersEasy riders and midnight cowboys in narco nirvanasCut down the wild alienated lonersCut down cut down all those freaks and free thinkersWild-eyed poets with wandering mindsSoapbox agitators and curbstone philosophersFar out weirdos and rappersStoned-out visionaries and peace-niksExiles in their own land!O melting pot America!"

My own little "drive by shooting" was aimed just slightly over the heads of those whose attention I was mainly seeking to attract.

If you were inadvertently grazed by a ricochet I can assure you it was completely unintended.

I didn't actually excpect any incriminating responses and was rather more hopefull for some modest restraint and a perhaps a little more thoughtfullness from all concerned.

There's no need for you to feel defensive about it. I suspect that's more of a matter between you and your conscience than it really is with me.

As a matter of fact it was the unwarranted crudeness and the personal nature of the missives that have been sent your way that actuallly prompted me to write it.

Now you're a big boy and I'm certainly no one to be pulling some small squabbling children apart who persist in trying to excuse themselves by claiming the other fellow started it.

You know as well as I that isn't the point. Someone else's bad behavior never excuses our own. Nothing can ever be gained by letting them drag us down to their own level. Actually you've held up rather well all things considered.

That point I mentioned can never be made strongly enough or repeated often enough in these times.

Our civility is under enough of a psychic attack without giving it a helping hand ourselves. If we can't resist the temptation to use the same kind of methods on one another we might as well surrender right now and start shopping for a pair of jackboots our size before they're all gone...hmmm?

Now I admire your honesty and I do indeed know just how difficult that is to manage. How hard it is to try and express ourselves honestly when all we have are these mere words to do it.

Very few of us can put a simple idea across without it being twisted or distorted by someone looking for an arguement.

I have, as you can see, no small talent for words myself, yet there are many times I've failed to post on topics I have been interested in for most of my life, even after repeatedly spending a considerable amount of time and effort to write them.

That too is a giving into fear that undermines my own confidence in what I have to say or whatever value it might have for others.

I wrote that post to try and defend some small space here for people like myself who are primarily interested in pursuing ideas not primal therapy.

Now the small truths you occaissionally manage to squeak out amidst all your perverse humour and irrevernt outbursts speak loudly and well enough for themselves.

I at least understand the necessity for that somewhat odd mixture on your part and I was by no means being critical of it.

It's those smaller and humourless minds who only see it as some opertunity for a personal attack and then have the gall to pat themselves on the back or think they can ingratiate themselves with others for doing it.

That isn't your fault, of course, but you do need to mindfull not give them any more opportunities to do that than you absolutely have to or pay any attention to it when they do. It's simply not worth it.

As I said each of uses whatever we can to push our fears aside to get at the truth of things. How we do that is really unimportant, that we respect one another for the effort and continue to try is.

I can't believe that I am responding, finally, for the first time to this blog and comment board, after reading it now for more than a year, and it is just to say that Please will someone get Shrubbageddon out of here!!!??? Really, please, aren't there other forums for petty grammar wars, talking about kids in track and quoting Pink Floyd and trying to prove how many friends you have on this blog? Can't you just email them and discuss your need to connect, and have out with your catty wierdness somewhere else? Shrubbageddon, if you are such great friends with all the folks you like to list, surely you can get email addresses. I too miss listening in on the intelligent conversations here, but unfortunately this constant interjection of insult, bullying and then the requisite "Oh Richard how are your kids," as if to remind us or yourself that you really are just a regular nice guy is ruining it for me and probably many others. Jeff, if you're reading, please keep up the good work, and I hope this bullshit in comment land gets worked out before too many more respectful and thoughtful readers and responders are driven off in disgust.

Any so called "bile" you splash is just as much an affront to the host of this site and all the people who both read and write here with only the very best of intentions, as any of the idiots you despise for doing it.

Just because they have ignorantly and maliciously done it doesn't mean that you have to oblige them in helping to trash up the place.

I do not suggest that you roll over, merely be big enough and adult enough to refrain from rolling in that muck yourself.

Getting angry is quite natural, controlling it and not behaving stupidly on account of it takes intelligence.

Since you obviously have some I suggest you apply it to the task instead of letting your emotions and imagination get the better of you. That is of course exactlty how those idiots get their rocks off and why they do it in the first place...hmmm?

So indulging those small and narrow minds who are only looking to disrupt things for their own twisted amusement only gives them the kind of importance and attention they crave, or is that too difficult to see?

Now it's far better to simply step over an offensive pile of fresh dog crap in the middle of the sidewalk than to try and swiftly kick it into the gutter.

Regardless of how noble or altruistic you may consider that gesture to be the sight you'll make of both it and yourself won't be any proud moment for you or your friends to remember.

There are far more important and interesting things that are actually worth discussing. Give them rather than those pests your attention. If they can't get a rise out of anyone they'll soon depart for easier pickings.

What a rocking vibe. Pardon my ancient idiom, but far-fucking out! Look at what's just happened here, folks, because it's absolutely awesome. Not the breakdown in civility, which is unfortunate, but temporary; as soon as we all remember that fires require feeding they'll go out again. There's actually something very good in what's happening here, believe it or not. Tempers had been rising here of late, discord in the fields, just like in the bigger world outside. As this postless thread began, our rudder again incapacited, frustration and doubts began to bubble up amidst the general rancor. Eulogies were briefly written, regrets were exchanged and downplayed...but then out of the chaos & darkness came insight & light. Fueled by passion, bitterness and commitment. It's anarchy, folks, and it works!

This is what they scare us with outside--they tell us in so many ways how much we need their Order and Submission, 'cuz without it we're savage beasts, without it we'll revert to our base natures and rip each other to shreds. This is what they saved us from. Like everything else we're told, it's a lie. Starroute made the most bizarre pronouncement, that RI had served its purpose:

If the central metaphor of this blog had to do with seeing the Cheney's of this world in terms of child molestation and black magic, then that function may be far less vital now that the closet doors of corruption and pedophilia are being flung wide open and the Republican Party is going into full meltdown.

Mission accomplished, starroute? Turn out the lights and go back to our workstations now that the wheels of justice had finally been coaxed back into motion by Jeff and his army of misfits? I think you must have intended that ironically, my friend, since you know as well as any of us that the alleged meltdown of the Repugnant Ones means less than nothing. Hillary and the other principled & independent Democrats are going put things straight again? The dope isn't grown that could make such fantasy reality. There is no central metaphor of this blog. The wormholes do not stop at "child molestation and black magic", or do you forget, starroute, how much your understanding of the mess grew when we dissected Lyman Lemnitzer, patron saint of the national security plague?

If any of you think we haven't accomplished anything, or that we've run out of gas, or that the current level of incivility precludes doing anything constructive anymore, you're wrong. We're being cited now by others discovering the the nasty web of intrigue that goes far beyond Cheney's sexual predilections. If you're depressed about the state of the dialogue, go read that link and get refreshed.

These little feuds don't mean shit, unless they make you stop. Everybody's fixated on the dreaded disinformation syndrome, but what do you think the goal of that mission is? To get us to shut up, of course. The sanest response to this 'crisis' I've seen yet comes from Dr. Bombay:

Who gives a fuck if there's a "disinfo" agent on this blog?!If they want to control what I think they will have to pry my thoughts out of my cold dead..head!!

Everybody gets upset when the dialogue breaks down, but there's a very simple antidote. Silverfox's suggestion was well-intended, but admonitions to be courteous will be perceived as paternalistic by the anarchists (us!) and it's not really necessary. Out of chaos comes order and vise versa. I've gotten into heated exchanges with any number of posters here and it always works out, as long as we don't pull the disinfo alarm. That's it--simple as it could possibly be. It's a cowardly, discussion-killing action and the only thing that can stop us because it spreads fear just like yelling "Fire!" in the theater or "Terror!" in America.

Yesterday I had a fine, fine discussion on the possibilities of anarchy as a political system with two posters who weren't so sure about discussing anything with me. One was an anonymous Anonymous and the other was Mojo Workout. We didn't necessarily observe the conventions of polite society to do it, either; we just didn't pull the D-Alarm. Go look at what we came up with, it's at the end of yesterday's thread. It might not have changed the world, but I learned something from it and I think MW did, too. This is why we're here: to educate ourselves, not each other.

Of course, you can always educate yourself by yourself, and having dropped out of high school at 16 I know something about that, but like sex, it's usually better when you're not by yourself. This is the bright promise of the Internet. The combination of serendipitous hyperlink connections and the same neural fireworks between open minds. We all flock to Jeff's house because we share, to greater or lesser extent, his take on things. It might not be a big house--Republicans are notoriously fat-assed and just wouldn't feel comfortable among the paranoid skinny people (sorry about the fat metaphor)--but we're obviously not all that monolithic, either. Shrub and Richard are way over on the other side of the Pessimism/Optimism Room from me, but I can talk to them. Starroute might seem like my sister sometimes because she stands so close to me in that same room, but I just told her she was full of shit, didn't I?

So here's the simple answer (again). Just ignore the weenies trying to get you to shut up by yelling "Disinfo!" in a crowded blog. Richard just did, with that perfect poem from Lawrence Ferlinghetti. Don't be afraid of the freedom to disagree. If you are stopped from expressing yourself by some fear of being called a you-know-what by some boy scout pretending to keep the class in order while the teacher's in the principal's office, then the self-appointed police have just made this blog an extension of the outside world, not an oasis from it. Never listen to people who say shit like the following, because these guys certainly are not interesting in encouraging dialogue, but in stifling it:

It doesn't actually matter to me whether every disinfo agent gets exposed or not. What matters is that they are prevented from operating effectively.

For better or for worse, I intervened to expose disinfo because I am convinced that what this blog is trying to do is still immensely important.

Here you have all the warning signs: "disinfo" appears in every other sentence; they proclaim their noble, selfless motivation in their "intervention"; and they refuse to do the very thing they claim to be protecting, which is to engage in a dialogue, to talk about the ideas and events that we're trying to make sense of. We know we're under siege out there; don't let them sell you their "protection" in here.

a repost of Jeff's previous post that is germane showing that Sibel Edmonds herself fails to see a difference in the global terrorist narcotics networks and the 9-11 events. Anything boldface is my boldface instead of from Jeff's original that he linked to above:

--

So, since the blog's drawing a number of new readers, I thought I'd ask: do you know this woman?

This is Sibel Edmonds, a 9/11 whistleblower, formerly of the FBI translation department. She speaks English, Farsi, Turkish and Azerbaijani. She does not speak Arabic.

She is someone the Department of Justice doesn't want you to know. She is subject to an extraordinary "State Secrets Privilege" gag order, which prohibits her going public with her classified testimony. The DOJ even retroactively classified her public testimony. Quietly, it recently also admitted the validity of her claim of espionage in the translation department, just so you know we're not talking about a crazy woman here.

Edmonds is prohibited from speaking in detail - naming countries, business, names - but she's still been able to tell us much. She has hinted that people ought to look behind administrations [for explaning 9-11 terrorism], to the confluence of state, business and criminal interests. Including big oil, and big drugs.

From an interview Edmonds gave Jim Hogue of The Boston Chronicle:

JH: I understand why you can't say anything about this, but there are several books out about the Bush ties to the Saudis and the bin Ladens in particular. And in David Griffin's book, The New Pearl Harbor, there is a very good synopsis of the ISI, which is the Pakistani intelligence service. He shows the direct connections between the CIA, the ISI, and Mohamed Atta. He makes a very convincing case that the Pakistani ISI had been helping to plan 9/11 for a long time.

SE: You are correct. But I can tell you that the issue, on one side, boils down to money--a lot of money. And it boils down to people and their connections with this money, and that's the portion that, even with this [Kean Commission whitewash] book, has not been mentioned to this day. Because then it starts touching some people in high places.

JH: Can you explain more about what money you are talking about?

SE: The most significant information [concerning 9-11 networks] that we were receiving did not come from counter-terrorism investigations, and I want to emphasize this. It came from counter-intelligence, and certain criminal investigations, and issues that have to do with money laundering operations.

You get to a point where it gets very complex, where you have money laundering activities, drug related activities, and terrorist support activities converging at certain points and becoming one. [Another point against the "Shrubbageddon thesis" of 9-11, 'U.S. national politics,' and the global narco-terror trades being separate; instead they are one global morass, according to Sibel:] In certain points - and they (the intelligence community) are separating those portions from just the terrorist activities. And, as I said [I disagreed, she says], they are citing "foreign relations" [for her gag order] which is not the case, because we are not talking about only [foreign] governmental levels. And I keep underlining semi-legit organizations and following the money. When you do that the picture gets grim. It gets really ugly.... I can tell that once, and if, and when this [9-11] issue gets to be, under real terms, investigated, you will be seeing certain people that we know from this country standing trial; and they will be prosecuted criminally.

Wait a sec - The ISI? Money laundering? Drugs? I thought we were talking about 9/11 here - when do we get to the missile part?

What Edmonds tells us lies in the deep background of 9/11 - money laundering, narcotics, arms dealing and covert terrorist support - corroborates the testimony of other whistleblowers like Indira Singh and Michael Springmann, and the work of investigative journalists such as Daniel Hopsicker and Michael C Ruppert. It begins to look a lot like what the late Danny Casolaro described, before it took his life. It looks like Casolaro's Octopus.

Yeah, I know; it sounds crazy. Crazy spooky. It sounds like tinfoil hat time. And yet John Ashcroft justified her gag order by pleading with the courts that what she knows could grievously harm national security. [i.e, "out a 9-11 terrorist network that was intimately a part of his U.S. intelligence network"] Are fabrications so dangerous?

Would it surprise you to learn the Kean Commission Report doesn't mention any of this?

Yet if you don't know this woman, you don't know what you're talking about when you talk about 9/11.

This investigative account details how America's economic and intelligence associations with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan led to the devastating September 11 attacks and illustrates the role that private military companies are playing in George W. Bush's "new world order." Based on personal interviews, never-before-published classified documents, and extensive research, this examination details the criminal forces thought to rule the world today—the Bush cartel, Russian-Ukranian-Israeli mafia, and Wahhabist Saudi terror financiers—revealing links between these groups and disastrous terrorist events.

[Some corrupt as hell Israelis are part of the 9-11 U.S. terrorists--you don't say? That's a place "where even Jeff fears to tread." More on these Israeli-Mossad 9-11 networks, that Wayne Madsen as intimated in Jaded Tasks that are involved in 9-11 is at the link far below--after some reviews and more information about Jaded Tasks. It would be interesting to compare how deep even Wayne Madsen's sourcing gets into them or how selective it is...]

About the Author

Wayne Madsen is an investigative journalist and syndicated columnist whose articles have appeared in publications such as In These Times, The Miami Herald, and The Village Voice. He is the author of Genocide and Covert Operations in Africa 1993–1999 and The Handbook of Personal Data Protection. A former U.S. naval officer, he has appeared on 20/20, 60 Minutes, and Nightline. He lives in Arlington, Virginia.

[It's an over 300 page book! However, Amazon.com is selling it priced like a 100 page one. Is Amazon.com practicing "profit dumping" to either keep more profits away from Madsen and Trine Day where you can buy it directly, or is Amazon.com powers that be contributing to sell the book? "Direct from the publisher" is 19.95 + S&H and it's more expensive. I am unsure what to think about Amazon.com's price strategy here, particularly when Trine Day is suffering under huge legal costs to even stay open to the public, due to the recent runaround that their book Expendable Elite had with the U.S. Special Forces group--a court case the U.S. Special Forces lost in banning the book. U.S. Special Forces were caught lying in court about it and completely trounced, and Trine Day won their case that there was nothing false about the book. So help out Trine Day if you can--it's supposedly going to be Jeff's next book publisher as well!Here's a link to all Trine Day books so far.]

"Madsen tells the reader the intricate details on how the spider web is built then lets you decide if that web was built to catch prey or spun as a conversation piece. He is what journalists were in our grandparents time. His independence seems to harness the trust of honest people in the intel-politico world. He factual illustrates why George W. Bush has done more damage to America's international reputation than any president in history. The so called "suicides" he investigates is worth the price of the book."

However, how deep down the (and I quote Madsen) "criminal forces thought to rule the world today—the Bush cartel, ussian-Ukranian-Israeli mafia, and Wahhabist Saudi terror financiers"--is Wayne Madsen getting? His book was held up in legal cases for two years, so it's probabaly got quite a lot. If it does get into the Israeli-Mossad aspects of the 9-11 terrorism network, then that's pretty much the first "mainstream" book to do so.

Compare notes to find out how deep down the rabbit hole Madsen (ex-NSA whistleblower!) goes. He probabaly goes quite far. The following link has lots of historical issues how it got this corrupt to seamlessly plot 9-11 terrorism events as mere 'sideline' to global narcotics trades, using the same people.

Bracked numbers indicate individual complicty of particular Israelis --- 150 EVIDENCE POINTS show Bush family/Israel CONDUCTED TERRORISM ON WTC hit from 1976-2001 --- Project Throwing Star: 150 evidence points that specific Israelis are responsible for 9-11 with Bush family, built from serious treasonous infiltration by an Israeli double agent fifth column in the U.S., connected with infiltration by Jewish organized crime and Mossad drug dealing; this is a list of ISRAELI NAMES who can definitely be implicated either as ACCESSORIES BEFORE THE FACT or ACCESSORIES AFTER THE FACT in the 9-11 strikes. However, the list has nothing to do with "Israel the state" or "Zionism" or "anti-Zionism." Ideologies or whole states in abstract are unable to have legal cases built against them. Only people can. --- All specific Israelis mentioned below are accused of facilitating or carrying out the 9-11 attacks. --- This list concentrates on particular interlocks between Israeli and U.S. citizens individually responsible for 9-11 events. Individual Israeli citizens are hardly the only group involved in 9-11, because it depended upon high treason of the Bush family, most of Bush Administration, high treason of U.S. military, and espionage by NATO. Other key institutions on U.S. side of operation would be Committee on the Present Danger, CSIS, and Team B. Avoid throwing collectivist guilt trips; go after invididual criminals. See an int'l organized crime, drug-running, terrorism network of both Israel and United States for what it is--a separate, parasitical, self-destructive, self-interested cabal eroding both these states, instead of loyal. The evidence is overwhelming, and the death penalty is too good for them.

All in all, I'm glad it was destroyed before it was used more tactically to destroy something. The U.S. was hiding some serious firepower in that ammo dump--none of the other explosions throughout the whole segement compare to that blinding flash and mushroom cloud...

"The discussion of a Globalized Drug Syndicate is much greater than the events of 911."

Peoples pretences determine what they choose to be the causal origins of our strange current events.

Some may see 911 as the boogy man, some may see the GDS as that man. While both deserve to be examined,the boogy man that I choose to consider as important is Dualism and its incidious effects of obscuring the origins of our causal condundrum.

Can you please elaborate on your post because I'm not quite grasping the point? I have researched the concept of Dualism, but I have to say, its meaning evades me. It seems rather lofty and erudite, and as such, there's a certain ambiguity to it. Can you break it down for me using the example you cited in your post?

Keep in mind that I'm not the one claiming either/or. I acnkowledged that the events of 911 are a part of the GSN....but not necessarilly the GSN. The reason I want to make the distinction is important, though. It's because I don't want people to drug back down into the Mosh Pit of arguing over the semantics of 911. That's a trap, and I think you know that. Otherwise, I wouldn't care so much about the distinction.

"If you give a man the correct information for seven years, he may believe the incorrect information on the first day of the eighth year when it is necessary, from your point of view, that he should do so. Your first job is to build the credibility and the authenticity of your propaganda, and persuade the enemy to trust you although you are his enemy." ~ A Psychological Warfare Casebook - Operations Research Office - Johns Hopkins University (1958)

Alas mom/pop Silverfox I fear I will never be as adult & grown-up as you.

Sorry.

I am doomed to wallow in my own feces. Occassionally flinging the stinky missiles far & wide as, arms all akimbo,I plummet into the hellish pit of my own immaturity.

Again sorry.

On a lighter note though, I'd like to suggest a nice scary Halloween flick for those of you who crave a good scare.I mentioned it on on an earlier thread, but now that I've seen it,I can recommend it wholeheartedly.It's called Jesus Camp.You can find the trailer here:http://www.jesuscampthemovie.com/

It was refreshing to see fundamentalist Christians,no slackers these folks, as they seek to eclipse those pesky Satanic child rapers in the domain of pre-adolescent mind rape.

This is the movie that made me glad I was raised Catholic. The penguin lady nuns were a bit outre, I'll admit, but they couldn't hold a candle to these fat creepy fundie loons.

Mission accomplished, starroute? Turn out the lights and go back to our workstations now that the wheels of justice had finally been coaxed back into motion by Jeff and his army of misfits?

No, of course not, and you know me better than that. But what I was really trying to say, as so often here, was something subtle enough that I fumble for the words to express it clearly.

The simplest way to say it might be just, "The spirit moves on."

Or, as Heraclitus put it, "Panta rei."

Many years ago, I undertook to read a fair chunk of early 20th century science fiction and fantasy in a purely chronological sequence. One of the things I discovered was that at any given moment, no more than 2 or 3 central themes -- social or philosophical problems -- would be the focus of the most memorable stories. (For example, the linked themes of decadence and alien invaders in the middle 30's. Or the question of human self-destructiveness in the wake of World War II.)

Those themes would be endlessly hashed over, debated, and examined from a variety of different perspectives. After a couple of years, some might have been resolved to most people's satisfaction, others exhausted without any clear solution, but either way the discussion would move on.

Eventually, I came to think of the entire human enterprise as an ongoing conversation (or, perhaps, an ongoing meditation in the "mind of god"), moving from topic to topic and from problem to problem in an intuitively-guided manner. Those stories or songs or political positions which strike us as particularly fresh and new and insightful are those which are on the leading edge of the discussion. Those which seem old and tired -- or which have jumped the shark in a failed attempt to keep up -- are that way because they've fallen behind.

The internet is no different. Certain locations serve as temporary watering-holes -- places where the discussion can settle in for a while because the chairs are comfortable and the drinks inspire reflection. But no fixed location serves forever. Message boards get over-concerned with respectability. Bloggers burn out -- or prove to be too tied to the concerns of one particular moment to move along with the flow.

I see a couple of things happening right now. One is that Jeff is showing signs of burning out. His body is telling him he needs to slow down. His posts are less frequent, and have less power to steer the ensuing discussion.

This is no criticism of Jeff. Being at the focal point of the discussion is essentially being a sacrifice, being pinned to the hitching-post of the sun and used by forces larger than yourself. (Like, say, Dylan c. 1965.) It's not something any mortal should be expected to sustain for more than a limited period.

The other thing I see happening is that after the election, no matter what its outcome, I expect things to be different. The issues discussed will not be the same as they have been since 2003. The forces in play will be somewhat different and will operate through different channels. Ideas about what is possible and what is necessary will be radically altered.

Among other things, I expect that whatever happens, there will be an increasing split between those who have pinned their hopes on the Democratic Party and those who haven't. And though I don't see a lot of hope-pinners here at RI, a change like that in the larger blogosphere is bound to affect us as well, if only in terms of increasing attention from those looking for alternatives.

Part of the declining signal-to-noise ratio at RI may simply be a matter of having already attracted more readers. How much additional attention can a simple blog like this one take before it founders under the weight?

I don't for a moment expect the discussion to end. But it does need to take a leap of some sort -- either within RI, if Jeff has the vision and strength to take it up a level, or to a new venue with fewer tourists and knick-knack sellers.

starroute,Thanks. Yeah, I do know you better than my interpretation of that post would suggest. Everything does change, and the plus ca change adage is correct, too. We haven't begun to tap what's in us or out there, although we've started some amazing forays into both. The value of continuing is that the group mind is capable of so much more than any individual. I know it looked like anger and distrust had the upper hand for a while there, but we're stronger than these elements which seek to stop the discussion by fueling the animosity and distrust that are an unfortunate but unavoidable consequence of letting people with divergent beliefs loose with no rules. But it's still better this way than an artificial and arbitrary peace. I love bouncing ideas off you, for example, not because your mind works in a similar fashion to mine, but for the same reason I try to engage people with very different orientations: what comes back grows me. Das Ding an sich, as your friend Kant was wont to say, is what a free-form forum is, composed of disparate elements, striving after similar goals. Again, thanks. And to the rest of you.

as a nice example of the "themed themelessness" he's talking about. I don't think that starroute has hit upon "the" theme of this blog. The theme, if anything, is the high level knot of how completely different and to the 'world outside' topics are all related to these same damn people.

Mission accomplished, starroute? Turn out the lights and go back to our workstations now that the wheels of justice had finally been coaxed back into motion by Jeff and his army of misfits? I think you must have intended that ironically, my friend, since you know as well as any of us that the alleged meltdown of the Repugnant Ones means less than nothing. Hillary and the other principled & independent Democrats are going put things straight again? The dope isn't grown that could make such fantasy reality. There is no central metaphor of this blog. The wormholes do not stop at "child molestation and black magic", or do you forget, starroute, how much your understanding of the mess grew when we dissected Lyman Lemnitzer, patron saint of the national security plague?

If any of you think we haven't accomplished anything, or that we've run out of gas, or that the current level of incivility precludes doing anything constructive anymore, you're wrong. We're being cited now by others discovering the the nasty web of intrigue that goes far beyond Cheney's sexual predilections. If you're depressed about the state of the dialogue, go read that link and get refreshed.

The sanest response to this 'crisis' I've seen yet comes from Dr. Bombay:

Who gives a fuck if there's a"disinfo" agent on this blog?!If they want to control what I think they will have to pry my thoughts out of my cold dead..head!!

...

Yesterday I had a fine, fine discussion on the possibilities of anarchy as a political system with two posters who weren't so sure about discussing anything with me. One was an anonymous Anonymous and the other was Mojo Workout. We didn't necessarily observe the conventions of polite society to do it, either; we just didn't pull the D-Alarm. Go look at what we came up with, it's at the end of yesterday's thread. It might not have changed the world, but I learned something from it and I think MW did, too. This is why we're here: to educate ourselves, not each other.

Of course, you can always educate yourself by yourself, and having dropped out of high school at 16 I know something about that, but like sex, it's usually better when you're not by yourself. This is the bright promise of the Internet. The combination of serendipitous hyperlink connections and the same neural fireworks between open minds. We all flock to Jeff's house because we share, to greater or lesser extent, his take on things. It might not be a big house--Republicans are notoriously fat-assed and just wouldn't feel comfortable among the paranoid skinny people (sorry about the fat metaphor)--but we're obviously not all that monolithic, either. Shrub and Richard are way over on the other side of the Pessimism/Optimism Room from me, but I can talk to them. Starroute might seem like my sister sometimes because she stands so close to me in that same room, but I just told her she was full of shit, didn't I?

So here's the simple answer (again). Just ignore the weenies trying to get you to shut up by yelling "Disinfo!" in a crowded blog.

Yes, it's quite easy to just keep moving on regardless of the fear tactics being planted, though I don't think that you can completely igorne the CIA spends more money each year on disinfo (in its above the board budget of over 40 billion dollars) than the ENTIRE Russian military budget from some figures I have seen in the past year or so.

And remember that some supposed "leaders of the debate" can indeed be total Emmanuel Goldsteins.

In Orwell's 1984 novel, "Goldstein" is rumored to be a former top member of the ruling (and sole) Party who had broken away early in the movement and started an organization known as "The Brotherhood" (Al-Queda), dedicated to the fall of The Party. (the Neocons). The novel raises but leaves unanswered the question of whether Goldstein, the "Brotherhood," or even "Big Brother" really exist, though Goldstein ends up simply working for Big Brother in the novel and entrapping honest souls attempting to escape like flies to flypaper.

Osama bin Laden is such a flypaper.

Michael Ruppert is such a flypaper.

Chip Berlet is such a flypaper.

I would even think that Amy Goodman is such a flypaper.

The "feminist leader" Gloria Stinem is such a flypaper.

There are many other flypapers set around to do just the same thing that Orwell talked about.

Now, back in the 1970s, if people went around saying "Stinem is disinfo! She's part of the CIA!", her defenders (innocently) would think that would "disinfo." However, it was TRUE.

At RigInt here, you really have to open your mind to keeping in mind that your main assumptions might be dashed at any moment around here and that culture and counterculture can have a common completely disinfo based origin.

If you are unwilling to countenance that, calling something "disinfo" may have a psychological protection for yourself. However, that doesn't mean that disinfo can be so easily interpreted as a personal discourse strategy by some. It's very real. It's so real, that disinfo is the way that most culture and counterculture works from the start nowadays:

...writer and consulting editor for Ms., which she cofounded in 1972--and her CIA background. She became a media darling due to her CIA connections. MS Magazine, which she edited for many years was even indirectly funded by the CIA. Steinem has tried to suppress this information, unearthed in the 1970's by a radical feminist group called "Red Stockings", which she was actually observing /witnessing. In 1979, Steinem and her powerful CIA-connected friends, Katharine Graham of the Washington Post and Ford Foundation President Franklin Thomas prevented Random House from publishing it in "Feminist Revolution." Nevertheless the story appeared in the "Village Voice" on May 21, 1979.

With so many levels here, the difference between disinfo and culture and counterculture becomes incredibly blurred here at RigInt, particularly with this sentiment:

"With our great influence in publishing and publicity we are able to selectively popularize theorists whose views are incidentally beneficial, compatible, or at least not in conflict with our own goals. This way we obtain sincere, energetic activists to propogate our desires without having to reveal our motives even existence....[Thus], the brilliant researchers and experimenters who make most of the break-throughs earnestly believe that their techniques are destined strictly for the betterment of mankind." --Anomymous, Transcripts of the Global Elite

Steinem may be half in and half out of that quote's sentiment given that she was hardly an innocent and already compromised when selected by CIA's Cord Meyer to be "leadership of feminism" by the CIA.

'In 1958, Steinem was recruited by CIA's Cord Meyers to direct an "informal group of activists" called the "Independent Research Service." This was part of Meyer's "Congress for Cultural Freedom," which created magazines like "Encounter" and "Partisan Review" to promote a left-liberal chic to oppose Marxism. Steinem, attended Communist-sponsored youth festivals in Europe, published a newspaper, reported on other participants, and helped to provoke riots. One of Steinem's CIA colleagues was Clay Felker. In the early 1960's, he became an editor at Esquire and published articles by Steinem which established her as a leading voice for women's lib. In 1968, as publisher of New York Magazine, he hired her as a contributing editor, and then editor of Ms. Magazine in 1971. Warner Communications put up almost all the money although it only took 25% of the stock. Ms. Magazine's first publisher was Elizabeth Forsling Harris, a CIA-connected PR executive who planned John Kennedy's Dallas motorcade route.'

...

Getting into how Stinem made her original 1958 CIA connection is still unknown though I think that is a kind of "RigInt" topic, as I see it here. When you are faced with culture and counterculture blurring in the 'high wierdness' at the elite level, and with intentional subcultures generated by this elite for its own purposes and set against each other or in attempts to keep them from being a true opposition force, you are basically left with FOLLOWING THE NETWORKS AND THE MONEY TRAILS down the rabbit hole.

"Down the rabbit hole" I guess would be the loosest theme here at Rigint I see, where multiple topics are loaded onto the same criminal parapolitical network, This is particularly so when the core of the group are dissociative identity disorder multiples and from occult families as high level Illuminati outs like Svali indicate.

Some, however, are truly on the outside looking in (perhaps one layer beyond Stinem like the people she would hire to Ms.), while others are on the inside looking out (who came up with the idea of implanting and funding a non-Marxist feminism for the CIA--with a known compromised agent like Stinem they could control).

This core can basically be basically without identity except for its strings pulling activities. It wants to sponsor other informal layers of clients working for them. Some of them without knowledge that they are, others with knowledge that they are and loving it with sadistic pleasure, or partially hating it (perhaps compromised by blackmail of her CIA past like Stinem) as the case may be. They'll sponsor you, though you are theirs.

Sometimes you get to see this occult recruitment only when people talk about refusing to be recruited as well. First, Alex Jones had an interesting bit I heard once in a speech he gave. He said that he was approached by such politicios offering him the world if he towed their line, and he refused. The story that the WTC hero and head janitor Rodriguez tells of him being immediately sponsored to go into "Republican Party finishing school," meeting the Resident, etc., and being told what to say, that they wanted to run him as a Republican--failed to fly with him either. He refused to be sponsored like that, and is currently a huge voice spreading 9-11 information to other countries on the lie of 9-11 official story.

You can watch him here talking about this in one part. Instead of using his learned public relations skills for the Republicans (he additionally was some underling connected to Cuomo earlier in his life), and his natural charisma and his true heroism to sell more of the GOP pedophile network some 'street cred', he's talking about the controlled demolitions:

WTC hero recounts basement-level explosions coincidental with tower explosion. His story in detail about the preliminary basement explosions before the planes hit, and his ongoing rescue of WTC personnel after all other rescue teams fled with their master keys, and his views on the 9-11 cover-up and becoming a worldwide 9-11 truth activist.

There is a blackout campaign on him in the United States, though he has taken the 9-11 Bush complicity message worldwide and made first opening stories on their local TV nightly news everywhere he went, for nights on end, from Malaysia to Venezuela and on...http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/10/347702.shtmlhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5770036334651717094

Back to a larger theme, all of European based society seems to have been converted into an occult graduated induction layer based society via this route in the past several hundred years, by sponsoring more than individuals, though by sponsoring whole cultural and countercultural social movements as well.

Back to the smaller theme:

Who would have thunk that Ms. Magazine is a CIA front, run by a CIA asset no less--SPYING on the left instead of popularizing it--and funded by the CIA, to boot? Though there it is... Disinfo exists, don't ignore that.

And much of what passes for reality is the disinfo veil. Most mistake reality and disinfo every day.

Though unless you give people something to wear in substitution before they have it demolished, they would rather wear the disinfo as their own I have come to observe, than want to know it was someone else's lies they are leading.

I think RigInt is for those who are willing to take some time peeling and poking beyond these veils--some worn so closely that no one is even aware of them--until they are pointed out.

On one level RigInt is of a longer tradition--of pointing out the Emperor has no clothes.

On another level, Rigint is a big collective knitting party for people disgusted with current epistemologies for understanding politics and the world at large, where we as politely as possible point out more than the Emperor has no clothes. We point out people who are still acting as the Emperor's cultural or countercultural inventions.

Moving a bit further, we rip our own veils to shreads and then construct something useful--far more warm and far more safe to believe in.

I don't know if there IS a kind way to do this latter bit. Though it's strictly voluntary of course, and that is the limit of its kindness.

There are people who participate in RigInt for seeing that the Emperor has No Clothes, and then there are those who take it further and are attempting to cloth themselves as well, aware of their own nakedness or disgusted by the current 'one size fits all' clothing standard issue from the State univerities which peddle increasingly threadbare historical lies.

I think we require a different term than disinfo. So much of 'culture' and 'counterculture' at least in the past several hundred years as European imperialism and "European based revolutions" were equally elite sponsored rubbish for disinfo purposes though becasue the rubbish was so widely adopted, it was a culture or counterculture. Karl Marx, another "Gloria Steinem", was hired for the Illuminist secret society League of the Just as their cribber/writer. That's just one example of the "unseen masters" sort of theme that Jeff occassionally touches, when he talks of Blavatsky for instance, who seems to be yet another hired or sponsored cribber (and HUGE plagiarist to boot, in her case--just like Marx was as well). [cite: Fire in the Minds of Men: The Origins of the Revolutionary Faith; and Sutton's little bit about Marx in The Federal Reserve Conspiracy]

Currently, the very informal steering of much of popular culture AND popular counterculture is common disinfo at root--instead of 'disinfo' being some sort of single shot in the dark.

Disinfo can be calculated in a decades long attempt to steer a whole culture--and even invent one--or even invent a counterculture, or invent a terror cell, as the case may be (as in the Mossad running Al-Queda cells in the Palestinian Territory).

My 'favorite' example of disinfo creating both popular culture memes and counterculure (here, terrorist recruitment) both run by the same people is the decades long policy of the Mossad to generate the culture of "Arab = terrorism" meme when all the major cases go back to Mossad false flag attempts to get people to accept disinfo as truth, and using such to create the 'counterculture' (terrorists) as controlled--like so many clueless though honest believers gravitating around Stinem for instance.

If much of what passes as both culture or counterculure is 'disinfo,' then we should make a differentiation between different strategies of disinfo instead of simply the term 'disinfo' being thrown about.

RigInt might be additionally characterized as focusing on the "disinfo creation process" as well as what has to be done to maintain it or steer it, as much as the other question of what is behind this disinfo.

The kind I think IC and others are talking about is some old fashioned quaint kind of an 'evil whisperer'--when by golly, when false flag terrorism is the ultimate in disinfo reality and ultimate in countercultural creation simultaneously, why whisper? Read this link below and then see if you don't see what I mean. All of the below is both disinfo and reality generating at the same moment.

http://judicial-inc.biz/False_Flags_summary.htm

[1] Coming to terms with this, and [2] taking responsibility for being gullible as this, and [3] moving out of this toward something else (than an occult steered based society that keeps people as mental slaves) I think is the collective endeavor here.

From that Judicial-inc.biz link, it says in one place which I think is one example of how one sided interpretations can get you misled:

Hitler stood alone and defiant against the tidal wave of Jewish organized Communism then sweeping all before it. The Communists had seized Russia and were at the bottom of civil unrest and revolution throughout eastern Europe; Britain, France, - the Spanish Civil War -, the British dominions and the United States. Germany alone repelled and held in check this tidal wave of subversion and insurrection.

That website is so keen on one side of the story--though a very important hidden side--that it ignores that Germany was equally funded by the same Wall Street Bolsheviks as well. Counter and counterculture.

And another "jumping the gun" on the interpretation here:

In one case two men, dressed as members of the SS, went to an SA Standartenfuehrer (Colonel) and ordered him to destroy the nearby synagogue. To understand the absurdity of this one must know that the SS and SA were completely separate organizations. A real SS member would never have tried to give orders to an SA unit. This case shows that the strangers were foreigners who did not even understand the distinctions of German authority. The SA Standartenfuehrer rejected the demands of the self-styled SS men and reported the incident to his superiors.

Given that Hitler had made a deal with the Junkers and the SS to destroy the SA, it figures that it could have been attempts to frame the SA and then do away with them, a move that failed.

Another fascinating failure is the Polish Bolseviks attempting to get the Germans to invade Poland with mudering thousands of Germans in the Danzig Corridor.

Instead, what is remembered is the only "lit fuse" event of the German staged Polish attack on its border. Because it is useful to blame the loser of course. However, wars are so artificial nowadays that both sides are run from the same boardroom. Another example of this is that the "police action" in Korea was run through the U.N. organizations against the USSR--while the U.N. chair in charge of that was a Russian general.. Hmm. And CIA Dulles visited the South Korean area a day before they attacked, and likely gave the word for it to start, according to a Dave McGowan book (that is equally one sided on the other side of the whole thing).

Thus, a lot of history is filled with these 'unlit fuses' attempts, until one goes off. And it is unfortunately only the fuse that goes off that is seared into the popular mind and remembered, instead of all the ones that failed to fire or were caught before they were lit that were equally real (like Putin being responsible for the Russian apartment bombings through his KGB connections simultaneous to running for Russian Presidency on a 'law and order crackdown on the terrorist', etc. etc.); or all the ones that were perpetrated by the winning sides that would make them look bad.

If that Judicial-inc.biz is vociferously one sided on the international communism angle, Dave McGowan's views in his Understanding the F-Word book are eqally one sided on the international fascism networks. It's the high wierdness that both are the same occult necromantic leadership that I think RigInt is treading. Most of 'history' is designed for public consumption.

Much of what passes here is watching the recipe being made by intentional poisoners who have killed the real chefs, and then watching in horror people outside eating it with relish and ignoring your entreaties that it is poisoned fare. "How can it be poisoned? Jean-Paul is my favorite chef!" etc., etc. Which translates back to: "How can I be eating elite propoganda! Leave me alone! I enjoy it so!"

Another wierd high level parapolitical flag recently flown is the anti-Zionism book by Jimmy Carter (heavily David Rockefeller/Trilaterial compromised; Carter is a founding member with David and Zbigniew Brez., "Mr. Grand Chessboard" pro-American Empire himself; FEMA created under Carter's watch in 1979--Carter appointed dozens of Trialterials (vetted privately by David Rockefeller to the organization, always) to "Carter's" administration; Carter authorized the ATTACK on Afghanistan that led to the CIA's long "biggest-mini" war that started up the Al-Queda 'database' of useful Muslim fundamentalists; David Rockefeller's brother Nelson Rockefeller attempted to run as the Republican candidate in 1976 while David Rockefeller ran Carter on the left side in 1976. That's "American competition."

Carter (another Rockefeller puppet) arranged all this start of Zbig's Grand Chessboard as well, via his authorization of the Afghanistan attack, to do what? Why, to topple a country attempting to stay neutral against the USSR and the CIA and Carter agree to ramp up the Cold War there. They sold the high wierdness connected Naval officer Hiram Rickover and his proxy Carter, a Navy nuclear engineer/officer, as "just a Georgia peanut farmer, yes I am."

Don't forget that inimitable line of the international revolutionaries, in real life seen in the book The Strawberry Statement want to stage fake street protests to disguise themselves when they want to go political; in the 1960's they wanted to be seen to be 'safe to go far more left' "in response" to things they staged; in the 2000s' they stage "terrorism" because they want to be 'safe to go far right' to things they staged.

A "serialized reality show" of the 1960s encapsulated so well this motif. The Patrick McGouhan stareded series the Prisoner has one actor pretending to be a defected spy that McGouhan sees as a party (appropriately, in one of his electronically, externally manipulated dreams): the defector says to him: "Whichever way you look at it, we both want to conquer the world....Sides don't matter, only success."

That I think pretty much sums up the modus operandi of the internationalists--they'll sponsor anything to see what kind of NWO milage it has against 'other species' of ideas and organizations, and then let off if they dislike it, or ramp up funding if they like the effects.

There may be a left wing and a right wing of international revolutionaries, though it's easy to argue that that is simply a fiction of different historical strategies of them.

The Carters represent or are minions of the left side, the side that comes from the (32nd degree Freemason; grandson of Skull and Bones/Russell and Company head drug lord at Canton, China Delanos--) the Delano-Roosevelts that sponsored and wrote the U.N. Declaration of Human Rights and constructed and supported the (Sabbatean led) Soviet Union which was the abomination of what their other hand was doing. Roosevelt is honored at a plaque near the Bohemian Grove redwoods, in a forest right outside. U.N. first formulation meeting in San Francisco was occuring near (and I think at the same time?) that Bohemian Grove international elite sex snuff filming playground was having their typical two week summer solstice party. "Midsummer sets us free!" The ever smiling Averell Harrmian (Skull and Bones) goes back and forth betwen high USSR connections and his high U.S. appointment positions throughout the "Cold WarTM, as seen on television".

The Bushes and the Bones-heavy CIA have come to integrate the rightwing internationalists though "sides don't matter, only success"--which is why the CIA and the CFR sponsored the revolution in Cuba to create Castro in 1958-9--just so they could invade (Project Northwoods and all that) and remove him.

However, there are lots of "unlit fuses" that went out in that project over the years; now death-rattling Castro is still there; Kennedy got killed for opposing the CIA "completion" of the Northwoods style operation to remove Castro which they just set up right under the outgoing president.

CIA as well sabotaged the peace feelers of Eisenhower to the USSR, by despite Eisenhowers direct orders to land all spy planes during the meeting, the CIA sends up one and it get "suspiciously" shot down (perhaps intentionally), just to create huge Cold War ire and wreck a "non financially lucrative" peace. and a "non revolutionary lucrative" peace at that.

The Rockefeller visit to the USSR had Kruchchev "fired."

CIA helped set up the drug networks that arranged the funding for the 'left' Nicaraguanan Sandinista revoultion against Samoza, when the CIA got tired of him. (Not that there aren't legitimate left issues--just that that is what makes it work so well. There ARE legitimate groundswells and grievances to harvest and organize (or invent) everywhere, from the American and French Revolutions onward.)

Samoza, placed there by the CIA, and I'm saying this hardly to defend the other dictator, he attempted to purchase guns to defend himself against the CIA funded left revolutionaries--though the U.S. stopped his Israeli arms shipment--just to let him fall to the Sandinistas.

Then there was a convenient 1980s secret war to run drugs and other things. However, like the "completion" issues that the CIA seems to have a hard time with like with Castro, that failed to work out either militarily and the Sandinisata were only 'toppled' by what was U.S. vote machine supplied 'elections'. Ol Carter was there to "verify that the elections were true", etc.

Later Bush Senior removed his CIA drug puppet in Panama, just to "get this North American military consolidation back on track" I would venture that had been stalled so long. Bush Senior joined GATT immediately as well. Bush Senior had the Larouche guy (the cult atmosphere, instead of their drug networks analysis) repressed as well, threw him into jail as fast as you could say "let's join GATT."

If it makes you sick, you're having a proper reaction. Remember, sickness is a first immune response.

You will handle it better the second time around when you body (and in this case, your mind) slams such elite attempts to sculpt your mind into their tool. With a better immune response, you will recognize it immediately.

RigInt is toward that building of a secondary immune response to such cultural and countercultural propoganda, not because there aren't legitimate grievances, only because such legitimate grievances will never be aired and will only keep expanding when people support such occult leadership in control of organizations set up to redress their grievances.

Get well soon, Jeff. Your secondary immune response is assuredly stronger than most...

In case anybody bothers to read this far down I probably need to say the following. Starroute's current line, to put it bluntly, is that, in a kind of vaguely mystical way, Jeff's lost it and he isn't really breaking new ground any more, thus accounting for the deterioration of the comments section.

This is completely misguided, as I have already argued. Jeff's research and thinking are as strong, provocative and relevant as ever. The comments section is being deliberately sabotaged.

What really troubles me about Starroute's posts on this thread is that they completely fail to acknowledge that any question about the true identities of Shrubageddon etc. has even been raised. They don't even contain so much as a simple "I just don't believe that so-and-so is a disinfo agent." This means either that starroute is not entirely rational in his/her thinking (which is certainly a possibility), or it means that he/she is deliberately misleading us.

In a way it doesn't matter which of these is true. What does matter is that people reading this should keep their wits about them and not be taken in by arguments, such as this one, that are superficially appealing, but which take little account of either logic or evidence.

Robert Persson is a blatant purveyor of half-truths - not even quite half.

Whether it's deliberate or not is something I don't know. My guess is that he's not terribly bright, and he's stuck on himself and his opinions. Just like many others here.

There is quite a lot of crap and sludge in the coments section, including a lot of mudslinging. Mostly it's just a lot of fevered egos that should be ignored in order to avoid so mush wasted effort and attention in the future.

I suggest we focus on the factual claims rather than the personalities and mud.

Everyone hs has "a right" to their own opinion and everyone is, of course, entitled to it...hmmm?

Whether those opinions are baseless, irrational, or even complete fabrications designed to mislead and confuse others, doesn't negate their basic right to have it.

Now the only thing we are genuinely required to respect is that basic right, not the opinion itself.

Just remember that any "wheat" we separate from the "chaff" here is entirely our own and we have to trust in our own individual ability to do that, not anyone else's, including Jeff's.

We also have to mindfull that the person behind any opinion is also a human being and respect that fact too, even though they may seem misguided or showing attitudes that suggest a less than honest intent.

So none of us are obliged in any way to give anyone else's opinion any more due consideration than our own intuition should rigorously incline us towards, if you'll pardon the plug. Just as none of us are obliged to dignify any untoward comments with a reply.

Bear in mind this is a open forum and one person making an ass of themselves is their problem.

Calling attention to it or trying to help them do a better job of simply making a spectacle of themselves only causes futher diruptions and discourages all those who may have had something genuine or important to add that is no longer possible and the dicussion always suffers as a result.

In fact most of us are here, (or should be), to discuss whatever facts and circumstances our own intuition has inclined us towards.

To puzzle and muse over Jeff's findings and compare them with our own. The resulting brew, for good or ill, is what you see on these boards.

Sometimes it sparkles and percolates along quite nicely and can be quite heady stuff, and at other times certain elements mixed together can become quite toxic without anyone realizing it untill the headaches, squabbles and inevitable retching all over the boards takes place...hmmm? LMAO

Now regardless of how well written or even how interesting any of these discussions appear to be, a grain of salt is always prudent.

In Starroute's case perhaps even a big blue salt lick might be more appropriate if you intend to chew on those wads of cud for any length of time...hmmm?

Now "intuition" is essentially what we know, (or feel we somehow know), without a great deal of facts or evidence to support it.

That altogether peculiar sensation that we are in the presence of some larger truth without being able to put our finger on exactly what it is.

Sort of an alarm bell that sometimes goes off in the face of obscure, odd, curious, or uncomfortably strange and baffling little details that seem very out of place.

These are either not where they belong or simply missing from where they normally ought to be. In short the existing facts don't quite add up.

The truth is there somewhere but it's not what it simply appears to be. This is really far more the reality of all things than we ever dare to honestly admit, even to ourselves.

What we don't know tweaks our curiousity and imagination but it is also the source of our two deadliest foes...ignorance and fear.

I have entered into this discussion because I have spent most of my intellectual life trying to deconstruct those two foes and as much as possible disable the power they can exert over myself and others.

There is no particular immunity from them beyond recogising when they are pulling our strings for us and making us do things we otherwise would not.

Never believe that humans aren't altogether quite remarkable creatures with a wide array of equally remarkable qualities, talents and abilities were it not for the presence of those two foes to interfere and distort them out of shape.

There is no problem, difficulty, or conflict of any kind that you won't also find them both fueling and feeding off of, including any you might see here.

The torrent of drivel continues 24/7, but the style changes now and then. Witness Silverfox's most recent comment, which is nonchalantly patronising - quite different from the hyperactively chummy Shrubabageddon/IC/Richard stuff you get at other times of the day and week. It all depends< I presume, on who is working that particular shift. When you're pumping out words as fast as these people you don't have time to hide your personality very well.

So now starroute is a you-know-what, too, Mr. Persson? You, Sir, have revealed your purpose quite clearly enough. Just for the record, could you please show us something you've written which does not contain this pervasive, and telling, disinfo meme? We may be an unruly bunch, but we're not as stupid as your method would seem to imply...

I've said here once or twice that the occult has a trickster nature -- and I deeply believe that. It eludes detailed scrutiny, regularly changes form and method, and breaks down into a heap of plausible deniability the moment you get close to it.

So why should an ongoing and largely anonymous discussion concerning the occult side of politics be any different?

But then, you seem to have little tolerance for the "vaguely mystical," so it shouldn't be surprising that you'd rather interpret any ambiguity or contradiction you encounter here in terms of a deliberate disinfo agent posting under many masks.

To the extent that this blog feels "alive," it means that whatever is going on is beyond the ability of any of us as individuals to comprehend. We are all just cells of the hyper-organism, playing our various parts in the process.

But it also means that if you attempt to pick the stream of consciousness apart to get at the "truth" behind it, you will be left with only a handful of meaningless shards. The truth is in the whole and not in the parts. Even if there are disinfo agents here, they are also a part of the overall flow and not some foreign element that can be harmlessly isolated and extracted.

As far as Jeff goes, what he does here is insanely difficult and all-consuming. It would be as stupid to demand that he continue it indefinitely as to suggest that he's "lost it" (which I never said.) Jeff's decisions are his own. But for myself, I'm starting to thing that it might be timely for the organizing consciousness here to pull a trickster hyper-move and change form and method.

Just to keep things groovin', you understand.

I'd forever talk to you,But soon my words,They would turn into a meaningless ring.For deep in my heartI know there is no help I can bring.Everything passes,Everything changes,Just do what you think you should do.And someday maybe,Who knows, baby,I'll come and be cryin' to you.

If anyone has time on their hands (like you Shrub) someone should do a chart and see how many useless comments are flooding this board.

While all this useless drivel is flooding this board, did anyone take into to account that it must be Christmas and not Halloween, cause look at all the white powder that is blanketing this country, and driving all the poor haz mat teams jumpy.

Why even the big boy got sent somehttp://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4703270

White powder at Clinton office found non-toxicSecret Service says substance found with a "rambling diatribe" letter Eyewitness News(Harlem - WABC, October 27, 2006) - NYPD and Secret Service agents said the white powder found inside former President Bill Clinton's office on West 125th Street in Harlem has been deemed inert and non-toxic.

Late Friday night, several Clinton staffers were still being held inside the building as officials decide whether or not to decontaminate them. Richard Staropoli, a Secret Service spokesman, said one of Clinton's staff members opened a package delivered to the office that contained a white powder and a letter and called officials around 3:45 Friday afternoon. Staropoli described the letter as a "rambling diatribe."

We are told that the former president was not at the office during the incident, but was at an event in Manhattan celebrating his three-day birthday bash -- a fundraising event for his foundation -- The William J. Clinton Foundation. His birthday, however, was in August.

Jay Carson, Clinton's spokesman, said the building at 55 West 125th Street had not been evacuated. Around 50 people in the building were detained to make sure any harmful substance would not spread.

Secret Service spokesman Eric Zahren said they had determined through a field test that the substance was harmless, and that the envelope was turned over to the Secret Service for investigation. Zahren, however, would not comment on if anything else was found in the envelope or how it was addressed.

Secret Service officials say every letter and package first goes through a security screening. There is no word on if this package went through the security process.

Clinton's office was briefly evacuated in April of 2004 in a similar incident involving a suspicious powder inside a package. Authorities later found the substance to be non-toxic.

Clinton has a 10-year lease for the penthouse floor of the 14-story building. The Secret Service takes up 300 square feet of the space.

Police and hazmat crews were twice called to a local business after someone found a powdery substance.

Police were first called to the U.S. Bank Check Processing Facility on Wooster Pike in Linwood around 11:00 p.m. Wednesday after a worker found an envelope containing powder on a conveyor belt. Then, around 3:00 a.m. Thursday, someone spotted more powder. Hazmat crews once again responded.

Fire investigators said they think the powder in both cases was probably detergent.

LOS ANGELES, Oct 24 (Reuters) - About 12 Los Angeles Times employees briefly evacuated the paper's newsroom on Tuesday night after white powder was found in an envelope sent to the publication, but police said the substance was not toxic.

Police responded to the newspaper's downtown Los Angeles offices shortly after 7:30 p.m. local time after a clerk discovered the powder in the envelope.

The powder was not toxic, Sgt. Mark Hurley of the LAPD hazardous materials squad told reporters.

Hurley said the envelope contained a letter with the name of a man and "general ramblings," but "there was no threat to anyone at the L.A. Times."

Well said Starroute.I personally enjoy the discourse here, even when it gets into a few ego cat fights, which in itself is rather entertaining and informative.Lighten up a little and have fun-50 years from now, it probably won't matter.

Anonymous 5:21 said that our collective endeavor is “moving out of this toward something else”. Could we start a thread on this? Would you please expound and expand on this? What something else is there? How do we get there? (I’ve tried MapQuest and AAA, but they’re not buying in…)

Ruppert is flypaper? Okay, I’ll acept the thesis on the surface for the sake of expanding my clarity; but what of Catherine Austin Fitts?

Who are the trustworthy truth-tellers in this world? How do we separate, as SilverFox said, the wheat from the chaff?

Worried Sick,By asking what it means, whom it benefits, and whether the claim is true. All of these steps are exercises in logic & research, but the intuition comes in at the point where we sense the connections to other ideas & events. The Ruppert puzzle is a great example. We know that the Earth is in trouble and we know that most resources are finite, but we also know that those in control of essential commodities or services, like energy, benefit from scarcity and are somewhat less than forthright about their business practices.

If it turns out that the central tenet of Peak Oil--that there is no alternative to the role played by petroleum in the economy--is false (google "solar fabrik," sustainable architecture, industrial hemp, and the prison boycott, for starters) then we can begin to guess at the scale of a swindle that traps the so-called "Left".

If, on the other hand, we are discouraged from raising these questions, or from doubting the intentions of organizations like the Club of Rome, with all of its nefarious connections, then our intuition will tell us that something is indeed rotten in the state of...

starroute said:As far as Jeff goes, what he does here is insanely difficult and all-consuming. It would be as stupid to demand that he continue it indefinitely as to suggest that he's "lost it" (which I never said.) Jeff's decisions are his own. But for myself, I'm starting to thing that it might be timely for the organizing consciousness here to pull a trickster hyper-move and change form and method.

That makes some sense. I'm sorry I misunderstood you. What you call a "trickster hyper-move" the more prosaic among us might call a tactical retreat. I could imagine Stan Goff (http://stangoff.com) saying substantially the same thing, albeit in the very different language of a former military man who understands guerilla warfare.

I'm not sure whether or not it is in fact the right time to wind this up. We know that Jeff is planning a move to http://rigorousintuition.ca. Perhaps he already has some kind of surprise move in mind.

What we do know is that Rigorous Intuition is still considered a threat because resources (i.e. salaries etc.) are still being committed to jamming it. The crucial question is how far these efforts are likely to succeed in containing the threat this blog poses. Can we circumvent these and regain the synergy between Jeff's essays and the ensuing dialogue, or do we have to cut our losses and do something fundamentally different?

For instance, what if only those who had been explicitly approved by Jeff or a designated administrator upon a personally written request were allowed to post comments? I'm sure that ways would be found to make life very difficult for the administrator, but there are bound to be software designers and administrators around who have already developed some effective countermeasures to this kind of thing.

Btw, it was a very welcome surprise to realise that there is still someone else trying to post constructively this far down the page. I was as surprised by this as if I had seen a live cod at the bottom of the Pacific.

The only reason I had been continuing to plug away at this thread was because it was turning into an interesting case study in its own right, revealing a little about who is doing it, what kind of people they are, what their working day is like, and some of the strategies they are liable to use.

It is more than likely that the people jamming this blog are also doing the same in other places. If we could identify stylistic similarities between the bogus posts here and those at those other places it might be possible to say more about both the scale and the structure of the operation. How useful this would be I'm not sure. Nor do I have much of an idea how to go about identifying all those other Shrubageddons in the blogosphere. But an intriguing idea nonetheless.

Ruppert is flypaper? Okay, I’ll accept the thesis on the surface for the sake of expanding my clarity; but what of Catherine Austin Fitts? Who are the trustworthy truth-tellers in this world? How do we separate, as SilverFox said, the wheat from the chaff? How do we best formulate rigorous intuition?

This is an interesting question that I think can only be done by knowing more about the interaction of three variables you should weigh about the person: [1] 'where they come from' institutionally as well [2] as who they are, and perhaps related to the last one how motivated they are to learn the truth and what motivates them to do so; combined with the all important [3] what is the powers that be reaction to these people? ARe they trumpeted as useful or are they hounded or in some cases nearly killed or actually killed?

Here are five examples of people I typically find truthful, and two examples--one of Ruppert which I question his endless 'nine lives' sort of feel about him; and one of the 'founder' of Wikipedia.

For those five, I find that those who are burned optimists and optimists still after high level institutional experience nearly destroyed them have an interesting command of both the actual relationships going on as well as have salvaged intact their moral stand against such things.

1. I'm thinking of poor Richard Grove's hyperkinetic speil of "I'm about to be killed at any minute so that's why I'm talking at 1000 words per minute about 2000 years occult history and the corruption in the international software industry"--which are linked to his personal high level experiences in the WTC building and the date of 9-11 which he seems to have been MEANT to be killed off like all of the other software developers on his team--Grove might still be killed...he better keep talking as protection....

2. I am definitely thinking of Catherine Fitts. More on her seperately below.

2.5? Ruppert himself has, at least in his version of his own story, mind you, been burned by the LAPD (one characteristic requirement of potential trustworthiness) and hounded out by not cooperating with drug coverups by the LAPD as L.A.'s biggest drug syndicate. Ruppert's additional story is that he was dating a CIA officer female who was working transshiping drugs out of New Orleans for the U.S. military, utilizing everything from coded messages and night vision goggles. What Ruppert does describe is pretty much a "Barry Seal Revisted" operation going on, if you read Hopsicker's opus Barry and the Boys which is MUST READ for anyone.

3. Hopsicker, for a third example is someone else who had a high level "regular corporate media investigative journalism" position, until he was burned I think--hounded out for broaching some taboo truths or wanting to do some research that no one wanted to have done. (Additionally, remmeber Connie Chung? And her "exposure of Skull and Bones that will be aired within a week." It never did. And Connue Chung left the networks soon after that. Connie didn't seem to be as burned as much as Hopsicker, or perhaps as morally strong perhaps. Hopsicker admits in the introduction of the second edition of Barry and The Boys, staring at himself in the bathroom mirror, after he started getting death threats for his research, "why the hell am I doing this?"--and finding that "I realized that I am a person who wants--at some point before shuffling off this mortal coil--to have some vague idea of what the bloody hell was going on while I was alive."

Hopsicker writes:

Norman Mailer once wrote that the only valid reason for a writer to write is money. This makes a certain cynical sense. There are easier ways to make a living than stringing words together on a page, especially when the headline we used to advertise Barry and The Boys on our www.madcowprod.com website turns out to be too too true: 'Read a book you're not supposed to.' It is only after five long years of costly and painful litigation that Barry and the Boys is finally making it to the shelves of your local Barnes and Noble. Now, I could wax as bitter as any other obscure writer who thinks he should be hanging out with Oprah. What was it about the book which made some people work so hard to keep it from coming to light? We'll let you draw your own conclusion. But we will mention one odd fact: Four best-sellers had already been written about Barry Seal before we moved to Louisiana to do ours. And all four failed to mention Seal's life-long career as a CIA agent. Perhaps we should have taken the hint. But we didn't. And we're glad. In the years since Barry and the Boys was released it has managed to become an underground bestseller...Still, it hasn't made it into bookstores, which is, after all, the place where they sell books.

I have a reason beside Norman Mailer's for writing. How I found out was when I briefly became significant enough to receive the odd death threat while writing it. Getting a death threat can be wonderful for focusing the mind, and the experience taught me several important lessons.

One is that you can feel relatively safe if what you're doing reveals details about 20-year old covert operations. However, this is decidedly not the case if you begin to do what those in the 'trade' refer to as "threatening to compromise current operations."

And this is the mark of someone you can trust:

In between locking all the doors and windows, I stared at my face in the mirror and asked myself more than once why was I doing this. And answering the question actually taught me something important about myself. With a shock of recognition, I realized that I am a person who wants--at some point before shuffling off this mortal coil--to have some vague idea of what the bloody hell was going on while I was alive.

It doesn't seem too much to ask. Does it?

So there you have someone willing to continue their research regardless of where it goes. Ruppert instead has sort of fled the building so to speak after a partial expose.

4. Once of the Hoover Institute of all things, British born though American citizen Dr. Antony Sutton, PhD, Economics; originally an international consultant/factory boss for metal working industries) I think is another person whose life history hits the three points well: [1] high level institutional and real life exposure for 'how it works,' [2] incredible optimism about such institutions as an insider, then [3] burned and hounded out for asking incredibly pertinent questions of "Why is all of the Soviet Union's technological complex, even down to the words for things, entirely built from U.S. borrowed corporate technology, down to military classified technologies sent there--throughout the Cold War?" With Sutton, I think he can additionally supply an example of how you can read and admire someone and completely disagree with their (heavy libertarian) political ideas for solutions, though agree on the common problems at issues at hand.

5. Another person who hits all three variables is Dr. Morgan Reynolds, ex of the Bush Administration and a huge voice for saying they are traitors for perpetrating 9-11.

A great aphorist, Chamfort, is a sort of historic version of the above. He was burned himself by French society because of his courtly breeding yet his bastard illegitimacy, familiar with both worlds of court and non-entity grocer's son all at once. Chamfort lived during the French Revolution and more a humanist than an ideological revolutionary. Despite being part of the revolutionary cadre and member of the parapolitical Lodge of the Seven Sisters with Franklin and Voltaire, he later came to despise the excesses of the French Revolution because it failed to meet his expectations and was more violent than humanist. He later got a revolutionary position as head of the ex-Royal Library. Chamfort kept amusing and scathing notes about people and events concerning the ancien regime and the French revoluiontary period he observed. He wrote that the heart either "se brize ou se bronze"--breaks or bronzes (hardens though becomes experienced, golden, stalwart). A great many people in the above list, including perhaps Chamfort, had leurs cours se bronzent instead of breaking.

That's as general a method of approach as it gets I think. You have to weigh these three points for yourself.

However, to venture a somewhat comical and probably useless 'general theory about truthworthienss', keep reading.

I would say that the people that get burned and escape from inside such high level organizations (like Fitts, like Sutton) and continue to be successful in exposing them by wanting to rat on what was really going on that upset their original optimism, "se bronze", are the real deal.

On the other hand, people like Ruppert (whose last 'independent media' office was within a government complex? and seems to have trashed his own computer equipment before leaving the U.S.? to Venezuela--that the U.S. is attempting to still overthrow?), seems more like a huge distractive plant. Ruppert is really a mind fuck: he's really complex. Perhaps he started out as a truly burned ex-cop who refused to deal the LAPD drugs like he says, ends up hounded out and homeless--and paraphrasing, "by sheer determination pulls together a newsletter and is, from his own admittals, accepted as a peer into the friendship circles of the highest levels of DC journalism." Or not.

Or, perhaps by sheer sponsorship, personal desperation, depression, and lonliness, accepts some form of spy position within the media for yet against the very people he is to be journalist reporting about, i.e,. a double agent. Perhaps Ruppert's double agency is driving him crazy? (My supposition.) Perhaps Ruppert's motivation is that he hates himself, so simultaneous to writing of his burned experiences and his governmental exposures, he knows that he can only tread so far, and is required to tow some sort of directives of what to expose and how and who to go after--or we expose you as well, Ruppert? (Huge assumptions go into that point.) For instance, one main thing that annoys me about Ruppert is that despite writing his huge tome on 9-11, he completely ignores the controlled demolition issue and continued to do that DESPITE Silverstein waving a little traitor flag and saying "I did it! I'm the 9-11 terorrist! It's me! Silverstein! The building owner! I blew up my buildings on 9-11!"

Ruppert spent most of his time attacking people who only commented that Silverstein basically admitted that the whole 9-11 operation was a Silverstein operation instead of Al-Queda's (i.e., Silverstein's admittal he blew up his own WTC7, sort of casually and opportunistically, the day of 9-11) and instead of the war games issue alone. Why? Because if you trace the controlled demolition evidene to personel you get the smiling brother of George W. Bush, Marvin Bush, as head of security of the WTCs.

Silverstein's admittal fingered the Bush family as blowing up and allowing the rigging of the buildings on 9-11 to blow up.

Fitts is interesting. Despite the Ruppert lauds, she's her own person. and was long before Ruppert appeared on the scene. She's (obviously, duh) a female so she's not Skull and Bones--though she immensely intelligent and accomplished to be where she was in the international private bank of Dillon, Read that has been SUPREMELY powerful in the post WWII period in the United States, and has at least half a dozen Bonesmen within it--with its (Bones and nonBones) banker minions becoming open and somewhat covert advisors and appointees to the U.S. federal government [cite: The Life and Times of Dillon-Read by Robert Sorbel].

For instance, Fitts is the "Sibel Edmonds" of the financial world--the one who can still talk. So listen. See the common story?

quoting the great New Zeland website, Scoop.nz:

Our readers may remember Catherine Austin Fitts' 2001 series for Narco News, "Narco-Dollars for Beginners: How the Money Works in the Illicit Drug Trade." Fitts, a former board member of Dillon, Read & Co. investment firm and Assistant Secretary of Housing under President George H.W. Bush, has a unique perspective on both the financial world and the workings U.S. government agencies.

Today Narco News publishes part one of Fitts' new six-part series, "Dillon, Read & Co. Inc. and the Aristocracy of Prison Profits." She exposes, based on her own experience, a glimpse of a system of money laundering, drug trafficking and rigging of the stock market that underlie Wall Street, Washington, and the private contractors working for the U.S. government, especially in the prison industry.

http://www.narconews.com/Issue40/article1644.html

Fitts writes in her introduction:

"There is a strongly held myth in America. The myth says that large corporations are efficient. They have big profits. They have lots of capital to hire the best people, the best accountants and the best law firms. Everyone looks so spiffy. Their technology is the latest. The best thing for the economy, sings the siren song, is for inefficient government to defer to corporate leaders and corporate 'survival of the fittest.' Powerful corporations, the myth goes, earned their power through performance in the marketplace by providing the best services and products.

"The real truth on the corporate model is far darker, however, and can be found by understanding our current central banking-warfare economic model and the resulting total economic return of activities. That means not just looking at the corporate profits and growth in stock price, but the true cost to people, the environment and government of a particular corporate activity. This necessitates understanding the economy as an ecosystem that is a dynamic living system in places. If corporate profits come from laundering narcotics trafficking used to destroy communities, and from government contracts used to build expensive prisons crammed full of small time non-violent drug distributors and customers, then they are part of a 'negative return on investment' economy. This is an economy where the real cost of things is hidden behind secret black budgets, complex government finances, under-the-table deals, market manipulations and economic and military warfare, until they finally show up in the most irrefutable ways: environmental destruction and the exhaustion and death of communities."

Fitts calls her story of Dillon Read a case study in this. In part one, Fitts describes how a relationship with Bechtel brought the firm into military and intelligence circles (including the Bush family), and correspondingly into the giant profits to be made from government contracts. She also looks at how the firm gained through its business with R.J. Reynolds as the tobacco company was involved in narco- trafficking and other criminal activities.

The series is an indictment of the elite class in the U.S. that sanctimoniously decries drugs and crime while profiting off of them and insuring their continued existence. As the old New Jersey street saying that Fitts quotes at the beginning of her series goes, "Make a law, make a business." Read the first installment here:

http://www.narconews.com/Issue40/article1644.html

[from http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0602/S00349.htm ]

In other words the useless general theory of trustworthiness is somewhat like

trustworthiness ratio = (high organizational personal experience divided by how they were jettisoned from the organization) times the degree they were burned and their original assumptions were dashed times the "se brize ou se bronze" issue. And that whole thing divided by (i.e., made smaller ratio of truthworthiness) their degree of high level corporate media appearance or sponsorship.

Note the corporate media hate Alex Jones, that should be enough to make you read him. Ever seen Alex Jones arrested for asking Governor Bush a question in Texas?

Ever seen Alex Jones screaming at the Bilderbergers through a bullhorn?

And get this latest blurb, that you will likely see only printed there:

Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo, currently receiving a wave of plaudits for his latest release, America: From Freedom to Fascism, told The Alex Jones Show that Nicholas Rockefeller had personally assured him there was going to be an "event" that would trigger the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq eleven months before 9/11 took place.http://prisonplanet.com/

A lot of these people have hearts of gold (or bronze), and they were simply human beings who were strong enough to refuse to be bricks in someone else's wall.

Dave McGowan I think, with typical somewhat overboiled sarcasm, points out that Ruppert's most recent escapade and "escape from the United States" doesn't make sense except perhaps as what is called in the intelligence trade as a 'legend'--or in this case the destruction of his previous legend and the invention of a different one.

I could go on about Ruppert though I don't think that he's really worth it, frankly. There's so much information he absolutely refuses to integrate into his 9-11 narratives that that detracts from any of his more excellent jounnalism on the "Fitts-esque" world system he describes in his book.

Here's some interesting posts on the issue of Ruppert selectivity that you can make up your mind about yourself, Dave is a data fiend, like myself:

NEWSLETTER #84August 27, 2006Mike Ruppert's Harrowing and Heroic Flight to Freedom (or Flight from Justice, or Reassignment, or Whatever the Case May Be)http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr84.html

(I have large suspicions about Amy Goodman as well as flypaper, first--particularly how SHE got to go into miliarized areas during the Indonesian military's police crackdown of East Timor that "made her legend", as well as her cooperation with known CIA contacts like Chip Berlet to create unscheduled format changes during her interview of kindhearted 9-11 author/9-11 researcher David Ray Griffin, quoting:

"I think the real story was how does Chip Barlet get implanted onto any program about 9-11--particularly when Chip Barlet has admitted secret police state intelligence meetings--designed for defamation intent--of which he was a part. ...And his real name is a morph of the founder of the CIA, John Foster (Dulles) Berlet."

We, the undersigned, would like to state that the recent (5/26/04) appearance of David Ray Griffin on Democracy Now! (DN) repudiates every principle of press freedom that you claim to represent. It was a shameful betrayal to the movements opposing the Bush() Regime around the globe.

First of all, it is very revealing that you chose to have Griffin appear on your show in a hostile "debate" format. [Actually, she called up Griffin for an indepth personal interview according to Griffin, then Amy changed the arrangement without notifying Griffin, which is a Fox New Tactic as well EXACTLY, when they threw in Bush family bag man Ollie North to 'debate' 9-11 Scholars for Truth co-founder Fetzer. They roped him in and then planned to trash him. However, Fetzer prepared himself by forcing the Fox News staff to put on the pre-comments to his introduction (they didn't want to!) to show him how he was being introduced. Moreover, only on the way to the show they tell Fetzer, according to him, it has been 'switched' to a hostile attack/debate format.

Thus Amy Goodman and Fox News were using the same (CIA recommended?) tricks.

Title: VIDEOS: Scholars for 9/11 Truth Under Attack, by FOX and by physical threatsAuthor: kudos watchDate: 2006.07.12 05:53Description: ..though the group is fighting back successfully,...http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/07/342456.shtml

quoting that in part:

Fetzer observed that the right wing [that's wrong, he observed that Fox did, not some amorphous "right wing"] is continuing to attack faculty who speak out on 9/11. "During an appearance on Hannity & Colmes (June 22, 2006), with Ollie North sitting in for Hannity, I made points about controlled demolition, the "stand down" order, and the FBI's position," he said, "but they were more interested in whether I was discussing these things with my students than whether they were true." On a subsequent appearance on Laura Ingraham's program (June 30, 2006), "She had her staff chanting about 'nutty professors' before I was even introduced. Then, after I made some telling points at the end of the program, they edited their archived copy and cut it off after a long harangue attacking me. That is intellectually dishonest."

Back to the same Amy Goodman strategy on 9-11:

This contrasted remarkably from the easy, non-confrontational (and extended) interviews recently given to Richard Clarke, Peter Lance and Sibel Edwards. (Richard Clarke is a "defector" from the Bush Regime. Peter Lance is an author. Edwards is a "whistle-blower". All three uniquely advocate the official story of 911.) The clear implication is that DN is biased in favor of sources who advocate the official propaganda of the State.Second, while Chip Berlet's affiliation with the Political Research Associates (PRA) was made known, you failed to mention the controversy related to PRA's alleged ties to the Ford Foundation:http://tinyurl.com/yuptu It is also known that the Ford Foundation has a long-term connection with Democracy Now and Pacifica generally:http://www.questionsquestions.net/feldman/feldman01.html

Recall that the Ford Foundation has been reportedly linked to the CIA for decades. By specifically choosing Berlet to challenge Griffin this episode of Democracy Now! strongly resembles a CIA propaganda campaign.

...

Fifth, during Griffin's ordeal he made many important points concerning specific anomalies with 911 (e.g., the Pentagon, WTC 7, etc.) that were ignored by Berlet. When will these be addressed on your program?

Lastly, we'd like to emphatically state that the science which disputes the official story of 911 can be understood by almost every high school graduate in your audience. By having Berlet and Goodman both dismiss Griffin's sources because they lack some unspecified credentials Democracy Now! seemed medieval. Surely DN can no longer claim to represent "Resistance Radio" when it discourages its audience from making the most basic of inquiries about the innumerable flaws with the official story of 911.

Until Democracy Now reexamines what happened on 9/11/01 with some intellectual integrity we will regard you and your program to be speaking on behalf of the CIA. To quote the Clash, you are solidly "Working for the Clampdown."

Sincerely,

Scott Loughrey

from:http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/05/289545.shtml

where the huge outporing of vituperativeness over making such connections seems reminiscent the increasing starroute observed "noise to signal" comments to Jeff's blog.

(I didn't get into Jimbo Wales's Wikipedia (see link), the internet encyclopedia run by a libertarian ex-pornographer Chicago stock futures trading "social movement leader"--hyped by the (Bones filled) Washington Post and the (Bones founded) Time Magazine itself...though perhaps another time, though perhaps that link is enough.)

And you can probably trust Jeff. :-) He's being published by the friend of Antony Sutton later in his life, researcher of Bones, Kris Millegan. If you are reading Kris, "om, peace" yourself, dude.

"A mind is a fire to be kindled, not a vessel to be filled."--Plutarch

"A slave is someone who sits down, and waits for someone to free them.--William Douglas?

"The American People have become so estranged from the Truth that they basically have to risk insanity to follow the diabolical machinations of the events to their source of origin."--Richard Grove

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banners openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their garments, and he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of a city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared." --Cicero, 42 BCE

"Because of the dictatorship we were under, they used to call me every day to ask me to speak to the people, to try to convince them they were having mass hallucination, but I always refused."--Wellaide Cecim, a physician working during the 70s in a health care unit in Village of Colares, Para, Brazil.

""The American People have become so estranged from the Truth that they basically have to risk insanity to follow the diabolical machinations of the events to their source of origin."--Richard Grove"

Are the majority of American's "estranged from the truth" or are they just stuck furiously treading water in order to keep their loved ones afloat?As just one example of what could be many, one lady I worked with up until 3 weeks ago was working 80 hours OT in a 2 week pay period, every pay period. She has a hearing impaired & physically disabled husband & she has to bring home the bacon. Where in a continual string of 16 hour days does someone like that find time to play hunt the truth?Are they diminished as human beings because they're busting their asses everyday instead of glued to a computer screen?How large of a segment of the land of plenty has to live this way?

Thanks for responding to my questions, for taking the time and doing some "work". I appreciate it.

I am familiar with most all of the articles and examples you cited. I thought you answer was very well written (expressed). I am in concurrence with it. I've read a lot of Ruppert, and most of Fitts. And when I discovered RigInt (I am not new to most of its topics), I read most everything here and find little that is inconsistent with my own insight and perspective, and a lot that added to it.

Of Fitts, I think it can be said that, while her heart has been bronzed, it has also been bruised. Of her, and perhaps not too many others, you can see the bruises, because she lets her humanness be visible. This alone gives her a measure of credibility. You can see and feel (viscerally) her passion. And I think you nailed it when you said she had re-discovered herself and her true ground, her true nature.

This is an interesting assortment how many of the false 9-11 truthers like Ruppert (and surprisingly, Barry Zwicker) have been caught up in the money trail of Adnan Kashoggi, and have taken to hawking "anything that needed to be hawked" for psyop purposes, from John Gray's "Men are From Mars" books (with its Kashoggi connections), to perhaps (...Hopsicker leaves this open, though it would make intuitive sense for the 'genesis' of this branch of hawking as well) various other PGI corporation connections "perhaps the largest tax fraud scam in U.S. history") connected to Ruppert, to, of all things, the Hale Bopp Comet Cult itself--keyed off by the 'false reportage' of the same 'Genesis' connected network off Kashoggi.

The CIA implanted culture industry main vehicle, under Kashoggi networks? With a different 'subsidiary' for each operation, each named "Genesis" Something? Read on.

AS AN INTRO to what might be called

"The 'Genesis' of the Adnan Kashoggi Wing of the 9-11 Truth Movement":

Back in the early 90’s satirical magazine “Spy” launched an operation to find the world’s cheapest man, and they sent checks for 64 cents to a couple dozen friends of 'The Donald.'

Those that cashed the checks got another check from Spy, this one for 32 cents. If they cashed that check they got one for 16 cents.

Adnan Khashoggi was the last man standing.

The billionaire cashed a check for 32 cents.

Any quick look at the Saudi arms dealer shows his notoriety stems from more than just singing too loud in church, or mosque, or whatever temple roof he and Imelda Marco huddle underneath together with their personal guru.

Even Khashoggi’s guru has CIA connections, we learned: the vastly rich swami has been under official suspicion in the assassination of Indian Premier Rajiv Ghandi, and was even arrested by Indian police for currency fraud.

Adnan Khashoggi revealed: He is wanted in Thailand, where he was convicted for fraud in absentia; is currently being sued, in a major and well-publicized case in Federal Court in Minneapolis for what may turn out to be criminal fraud; reportedly, he is also currently the subject of a massive investigation being conducted by the U.S. Attorney in Los Angeles.

Add to that the recently declassified American intelligence report from 1991 listing the top 100 drug traffickers and associates. It included lawyers, right-wing paramilitary fighters, a Peruvian rebel commander, a Colombian singer, a pre-dead Pablo Escobar, a pre-jailbird Manuel Noriega... and Adnan Khashoggi.

Well now.

No wonder [false] denials of impropriety in accepting money from Khashoggi's business partner John Gray were so quick from so-called 9.11 [disinfo wing of the] "Truth Movement" principals [accepting Kashoggi money].

Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo, currently receiving a wave of plaudits for his latest release, America: From Freedom to Fascism [watch for free], told The Alex Jones Show that Nicholas Rockefeller had personally assured him there was going to be an "event" that would trigger the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq eleven months before 9/11 took place.

Saying he had been approached many times by the Rockefellers and other members of the CFR elite in an attempt to recruit him, Russo recalled a conversation that would come home to roost on September 11, 2001.

"Here's what I do know first hand - I know that about eleven months to a year before 9/11 ever happened I was talking to my Rockefeller friend (Nicholas Rockefeller) and he said to me 'Aaron there's gonna be an event' and he never told me what the event was going to be - I'm not sure he knew what the event was going to be I don't know that he knew that," said Russo.

Russo related how Rockefeller knew precisely what the event would lead to and which countries would be militarily targeted by the elite.

"He just said there's gonna be an event and out of that event we're gonna invade Afghanistan so we can run pipelines through the Caspian sea, we can go into Iraq to take the oil and establish bases in the middle east and to make the middle east part of the new world order and we're going to go after Venezuela - that's what's going to come out of this event."

"Eleven months to a year later that's what happened....he certainly knew that something was going to happen."

"In my relationships with some of these people I can tell you that it's as evil as it really gets - this is it - this is the game," stated Russo - also relating how members of the elite were routinely obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times.

For those who are unaware of the 'first family' of the United States, even this lighthearded and hardly indepth History Channel documentary (and sometimes I'm yelling bullshit at the screen) and in the History Channel's own words were "reshaping America" is informative:

Part two, the juicy bits are censored and the link has been down ever since the link was live..

And who is Nicholas Rockefeller? This gets positivity Jeff Wellsian so while Jeff is ill, read this by Hopsicker as a substitute, and what a substitute it is:

According to Hopsicker:

"The story of the auto thief from Cleveland who discovered 39 dead bodies in Rancho Santa Fe Ca. in March of 1997 in the Heaven’s Gate cult mass suicide is a reflection in a fun house mirror of America's secret history of freakish cults, financial fraud, and the occasional member of the Rockefeller family, all of which helped make possible today's 9.11 cover-up.

October 13 2004-Venice,FL. by Daniel Hopsicker

After finding the bodies of 39 members of the Heaven’s Gate cult on a balmy afternoon in Southern California, arrayed in neat rows and wearing brand new Nikes, Nick Matzorkis became instantly famous.

Soon he’d sold rights to the story of the cult suicide to the Hollywood entertainment company for which both he and some of the dead cultists worked. It was a smart move.

But fame can be a two-edged sword, and Matzorkis wound up suffering the twin fates common to people in certain circles in L. A.: a short-lived production deal, and jail time.

A probation officer saw him on national television, and 'made' him as a wanted felon who'd skipped out on his sentence.

He was jailed and returned to Cleveland, coincidentally the home of financier Carl Icahn, who will figure later in our story for allowing his name be used to prop up Adnan Khashoggi and John Gray’s Genesis Intermedia in an announcement he’d extended the company a $100 million credit line even as company principals were filling their pockets with pens and staplers on their way out the door.

Nothing was left behind...except thousands of angry investors.

Ichan [from Cleveland, Rockefeller home town originally], strangely, also figures peripherally in the Heaven’s Gate saga: when the cultists threw themselves a final going-away-to-Hale Bopp party in January of 1997, they held the bash at Icahn’s Stratosphere Casino in Vegas, which he was then in the process of purchasing out of bankruptcy.

A 10-year old girl, looking out to sea

We were first tipped to the interesting Mr. Matzorkis by researcher Kelly Cooke, adding a human dimension to a story that otherwise sometimes seems to take place in the 13th Dimension.

Sadly for Ms. Cooke, both of whose parents committed suicide under the influence of the group, it didn’t.

After the mass suicide, a Marin County, Ca. newspaper reported, “Michael Sykes of Modoc County, a former owner of Point Reyes Books, remembered the couple fondly. "Nick was an artist and philosopher and very much a conversationalist, talking late into the night," he said. "Suzanne was lively, animated, and interested in the arts."

“Sykes… recalled she took Kelly with her to Washington State to plant trees for a timber company. It was upon her return that she started following a group that preached of heavenly UFOs, he said.

"I thought they went off the deep end," said Susan Deixler of Inverness Park, whom they asked to take care of their daughter.

Recalling their determination to leave, Deixler said: "They seemed hypnotized. You would come up against the wall when you tried to talk to them about this. It was strange."

Mathewson and her ex-husband eventually accepted responsibility for Kelly. "It all happened very quick, and there wasn't much time for an explanation," she said.

“Charlie Morgan of Inverness recalled 10-year-old Kelly "standing on the corner [in Point Reyes Station] looking bewildered and alone because her parents were off with the space people."

While following the often-convoluted story, the memory of this image provided a simple illustration of what it is about.

Auto thieves drinking with 'the swells'

We became suspicions of Matzorkis after reading a neighbor of the cult, businessman Anthony Demopoulos, recall that the cultists seemed slow-talking, deliberate, almost robotic in their actions.

"They were not normal people," he stated flatly. "Something was done to them."

Pretty astute.. Demopoulos noticed that one cultist [the agent], John Craig, known as "Brother Logan," held sway over the others. "He would never let them even be on the phone alone to talk to me. They couldn't breathe without him."

“In contrast, Beverly Hills computer businessman Nick Matzorkis [who "discovered" the cult's bodies], who employed about a dozen cult members to design World Wide Web sites, had the impression that they were not being coerced. His employee Richard Ford, or "Rio," is the former cultist who discovered the bodies,” read a wire service account. "The one thing that's been made very clear to me in conversations with Rio is that anyone was free to leave at any time," Matzorkis said.

Cultists deaths forgotten, Matzorkis went on to help raise $ 54 million in an Internet initial public stock offering for a heavily-advertised online venture called U.S. Search.com. Two years ago he founded a company in China with a partner with a slightly-more illustrious pedigree, Nicholas Rockefeller.--[the very person who is friends with Aaron Russo, who told Aaron 11 months before 9-11 some "event" would happen that would allow the Caspian oil pipeline and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.]

The press release announcing their company said the principals were “Nicholas Matzorkis, who in 1994 founded US SEARCH, the number one people locator service in the world, and Nicholas Rockefeller Esq., a leading venture capital counselor.

GlobalAgora is believed to be the first U.S. company to launch first in the People's Republic.”

From auto thief to Beverly Hills businessman and partnered in an international company with a scion of the Rockefeller clan...just another heady American success story?

To paraphrase Latin ballplayer Chico Esquella’s famous line on Saturday Night Live:

“Heaven’s Gate Been Berry Berry Good to Me.”

There’s no real way to ask the question politely: Are Matzorkis’ connections with Nicholas Rockefeller coincidental to his earlier involvement with the Heaven’s Gate Cult?

As they say in Hollywood… Let’s take a look.

What to Do Do when the Spot Spot won’t come Out Out?

The highly-visible campaign spreading ever-more implausible red herrings about the real mysteries of the 9/11 attack owes its existence to a simple fact of human nature.

As far back as the ancient Greeks—and as true today as then—is the idea that crime always shows itself, and is eventually discovered.

Certain news cannot be suppressed.

Truth will come to light.

“Though it hide a year or two, or three,” wrote Chaucer, “Murder will out.”

Certainly this is a line to send a shiver down the spine of anyone with so far unannounced culpability in the 9.11 attack.

For example, American national security officials conducting ‘business as usual’ before the attack must have felt they’d gotten caught without a stool when the music stopped.

Who wanted to cop to playing "Dialing for Dollars" with the world’s Heroin Kingpins Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar before the plane's hit?

These two men dominated the world’s heroin market, yet there had been no reports in the press of any shortage of heroin during the months before the attack, either in the U.S. or abroad.

Somebody had exposure.

The American people may be forgiving, but what if they had learned that the terrorists presence in the U.S. had been tolerated and even protected by U.S. officials engaged in international trafficking with Atta’s paymasters in Kabul?

Picture Jerry Falwell trying to peddle forgiveness for that down the aisles at Liberty Baptist in Lynchburg.

You see the point.

If only figuratively, heads would certainly have rolled.

Clearly, the revelation in “Welcome to Terrorland” that a Lear Jet with 43 lbs of heroin on board belonged to the man whose flight school Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al Shehhi had only recently begun attending was a bit of dashed bad luck for someone.

It didn’t help that the plane had been flying weekly milk runs to Venezuela and back for 30 consecutive weeks before getting caught.

That the pilot’s day job was as chief pilot on Venezuela’s Air Force One only made things worse….

That the co-pilot was himself reportedly a DEA agent stationed in Guyana was yet more bad luck…

The fact that the flight school owner actually has a close connection with the Reverend Falwell made this a sticky wicket of potential major consequence.

Did someone go a little queasy in the stomach at the discovery that a key player in the 9/11 terrorist conspiracy had been implicated in the biggest narcotics bust in the entire sordid history of Central Florida?

We like to think so.

Because when you’re going after people who could be charged with 3000 counts of 1st degree homicide, its important to savor the little victories.

Because when you're waging a 9.11 info war with powerful people with a lot to lose, there may not be any bigger ones.

Especially when they order up a circus:

“Send in the Clowns World Tour ’04.”

“The 9/11 Truth Movement gives one insight why the term ‘conspiracy theorist’ came to be shorthand for "discredited whacko" in the invisible guidebook of mainstream media,” wrote Sander Hicks.

“Suddenly, it’s not hard to understand why the obvious anomalies in the JFK assassination never received proper attention in accepted media channels.”

"If you have just as many nutty theories about the driver of the limo turning around and shooting JFK as you have honest scientific inquiries about the real probability of multiple shooters, the wheat drowns in the chaff.”

Sander Hicks Interview by Mickey Z: "Hicks gained national notoriety when he published Jim Hatfield's controversial Dubya biography, "Fortunate Son." The scathing, well-documented expose of the Bush dynasty resulted in near financial ruin for Soft Skull, a brilliant film documentary ( http://www.hornsandhalos.com), and Hatfield's tragic suicide[--or murder?]....Sander Hicks has reported on 9/11 issues since 9/2001 [ ] Air America [which perhaps happens to be named after the famous CIA narco-airline for spooking the sheep one more time...], and [Hicks strangely can even find himself sponsored to] address...a massive audience at the historic [Rockefeller built Gothic cathdral] Riverside Church, in New York, on the topic of the "9/11 Cover Up." [Just as Ruppert can be sponsored as per his 'legend as 9-11 truth activist' by the high elite Commonwealth Club in San Francisco; Just as Gloria Stinem, CIA asset, is sponsored into the eye as "feminist leadership" directly by CIA's Cord Meyers' when he prints and sponsors her articles along in Fortune Magazine. Watch the venues!!!]

Today's disinformation offensive on the real questions about 9.11 that must be answered, however, is not the first time Americans have been manipulated...

So there's a paper trail.

This is good news, but first, let's begin our journey with a visit to the psy-ops murk of Saudi Genesis.

What's being lost in the White Noise is the news that evidence constituting inconvenient knowledge about the 9/11 attack continues to seep to the surface...It just isn't being noticed much anymore.

...

Real Clues for Real People

Here’s a real clue to unraveling 9/11, a huge gold nugget, in fact, tucked unnoticed in a 9.11 third anniversary recap in the Chicago Tribune:

“And yet his (Atta’s) bank and credit card records show repeated contributions to Islamic charities working in the Balkans, the mark of a devoted Muslim. In what appears to be a more noteworthy act of generosity to someone he barely knew, in 1995 Atta lent a Turkish baker, Muharrem Acar, some $25,000 to help Acar open a bakery.”

“Acar told the BKA that Atta didn't even ask for a promissory note when he made the loan.

“I don't know why El-Amir had so much money," he said. "I did not want to know either. I heard later that his father was a lawyer. Maybe his family supplied him well."

Where did penniless grad student Mohamed Atta get $25,000 in 1995, years before the official story has him joining Al Qaeda?

Where did Atta get access to so much cash that 25k was no big deal?

Discovering who the terrorist ringleader’s paymaster was back in 1995 would be a huge piece of the puzzle. Following a money trail is not brain surgery either...

Government prosecutors find answers to questions like that all day long... when they want to.

This is the essence of the concept of ‘the secret history.’

“6 Second Abs & 9.11 Conspiracies Revealed!”

“Ladies and gentlemen of the press, Peak Oil activists worldwide…”

See the Flash? Now? How ‘bout now?”

Rockefeller's Favorite Martian

The Rockefeller family got interested in the reptoids earlier than most, and apparently for different reasons. Most use stories of UFO's for mild amusement. Not the Rockefellers, though. They were interested in using the stories for control. In fact, if it weren’t for the Rockefeller Foundation's previous mass psychology experiments, which starred the Martians, today's cover-up effort by American officials might not be proceeding as smoothly as it has.

Here’s what happened:

At precisely 8pm on the evening of October 30th 1938, the Mercury Radio Network interrupted the music of Ramon Rachello and His Orchestra for a special news bulletin. A huge flaming object, believed to be a meteorite, had fallen on a farm near Grovers Mill, New Jersey.

Moments later comes a correction…

“Its not a meteorite, no! Incredibly, there are Martian cylinders falling all over the country!”

The famous War of the Worlds broadcast has begun. With its terrifyingly real descriptions of an invasion from Mars, before the night is out a million people will run panicked into the streets.

But what has been--for almost fifty years--a closely guarded secret, is this: Orson Wells' broadcast was no mere show business stunt, but an Experiment in Fear, a psychological warfare test conducted for the Rockefeller Foundation.

Here's a quote from “America Under Attack” A Reassessment of Orson Welles War of the Worlds” by Paul Heyler of Willfrid Laurier University:

“A grant from the Rockefeller Foundation to Princeton University helped create the Princeton Office of Radio Research. The director was Paul Lazersfeld, an Austrian Jewish émigré and a social psychologist whose expertise in quantitative methods was tempered by a humanist leaning. He teamed with two associates, psychologist Hadley Cantrell and CBS researcher Fred Stanton, a PhD in psychology who would eventually become network president.”

Paging Jerry Falwell

Pretty smart company. The book continues:

“The broadcast was a psychological warfare experiment conducted by The Princeton Radio Project. The Rockefeller Foundation funded the project in the fall of 1937. An Office of Radio Research was set up with Paul F. Lazersfeld as director, and Frank Stanton and Hadley Cantrell as associate directors.

Using demographic data on the broadcast’s audience gleaned from a 10-page interview questionnaire given to 135 people, they created a book, “Invasion From Mars: A Study in the Psychology of Panic.”

The results were available to only a few, apparently, with no talk of any paperback release. Yet more than 12 percent of the American radio audience had listened to the broadcast. More than half that number took it seriously. By sociologist Hadley Cantrell’s account, published in a landmark study for the Rockefeller Foundation, more than a million people were frightened by Welles' broadcast.

The strongest currents of fear were among less-educated people and poor Southern folk. (Jerry Falwell took note.)

The emergence of the comet Hale Bopp decades later will mark a resurgence in warnings of catastrophe; insistent messages of doom & gloom; the end of Life As We Know. Remember Y2K?

There were actually people peddling the 'hot tip' that freeze-dried foods would soon attain the status of Kobe beef just after the clock struck "Y2K" and the grid went dark...

Imagine that.

Everything you need to know about Adnan Khashoggi

Info on Khashoggi runs the gamut from the ridiculous to the sinister.

To get the serious stuff out of the way first:

"Khashoggi was among a number of prominent Arab businessmen, like Khalid Mahfouz, who agreed to continue what have been described by US intelligence officials as "protection payments" to bin Laden at a meeting in Paris in 1998, said London's Sunday Business Post October 7, 2001.

[And business partner with Mafooz networks? Why, the head of the 9-11 Cover-Up, I mean, 9-11 Omission, I mean, 9-11 Commission, Mr. Kean himself, through Amereda Hess Oil Company which has Mafouz connections. And Mafouz is brother-in-law to the bin Ladens, the supposed 'official legend' people of the 9-11 terrorist events are only one remove away from Mr. Kean himself. Remember Max Clelend leaving the "commission" saying "the whole thing is a cover up." He's right. It's more than that its being run by bin Laden/Bush proxies, thus to get into the actual story would implicate themselves, like Mr. Kean, so they had a personal incentive to be quiet about it.]

But there's also a fun side to Adnan's slightly-slimier side...

Back in the early 90’s satirical magazine “Spy” launched an operation to find the world’s cheapest man, and they sent checks for 64 cents to a couple dozen friends of 'The Donald.'

Those that cashed the checks got another check from Spy, this one for 32 cents. If they cashed that check they got one for 16 cents.

Adnan Khashoggi was the last man standing.

The billionaire cashed a check for 32 cents.

Any quick look at the Saudi arms dealer shows his notoriety stems from more than just singing too loud in church, or mosque, or whatever temple roof he and Imelda Marco huddle underneath together with their personal guru.

Even Khashoggi’s guru has CIA connections, we learned: the vastly rich swami has been under official suspicion in the assassination of Indian Premier Rajiv Ghandi, and was even arrested by Indian police for currency fraud.

Adnan Khashoggi revealed: He is wanted in Thailand, where he was convicted for fraud in absentia; is currently being sued, in a major and well-publicized case in Federal Court in Minneapolis for what may turn out to be criminal fraud; reportedly, he is also currently the subject of a massive investigation being conducted by the U.S. Attorney in Los Angeles.

Add to that the recently declassified American intelligence report from 1991 listing the top 100 drug traffickers and associates. It included lawyers, right-wing paramilitary fighters, a Peruvian rebel commander, a Colombian singer, a pre-dead Pablo Escobar, a pre-jailbird Manuel Noriega... and Adnan Khashoggi.

Well now.

No wonder [false] denials of impropriety in accepting money from Khashoggi's business partner John Gray were so quick from so-called 9.11 [disinfo wing of the] "Truth Movement" principals [accepting Kashoggi money].

"I asked John [Gray] personally about what connection, if any, he has or had with Adnan Khashoggi,” said Toronto talk host Barrie Zwicker. “John satisfied me that he is aware of the anti-life nature of Khashoggi's activities, that he has not associated with him and would never want to, that he was caught up in the aftermath of dirty dealings by Khashoggi and other dot com crooks and in fact was one of their victims.”

The Great 9/11 Bun & Thigh Roller Deception

"A victim of circumstance and “dot com crooks”

Here we do not believe Zwicker is referencing the friendly folks at Pinnacle Quest, a vehicle for international fraudsters endorsed by Michael C. Ruppert on his website.

He also provides them a vigorous defense; perhaps he feels cheating widows and orphans reduces population pressure and so is ultimately all to the good.

Ruppert said, “PQI has presented some remarkable information that is totally suppressed in the US. That includes successful treatments for cancer and for many other serious diseases…”

Here we note that self-described “Detective-Journalist” Ruppert has apparently slipped in “Clinician” too, when no one was looking.

We pictured Andy Griffith in the con man classic Elmer Gantry.

Some sample quotes about Ruppert’s fraudster friends:

“ Anderson was extradited to the United States a few days ago (December 4, 2002), his brother (Wayne Anderson) was recently sentenced to serve much of the rest of his life in a federal prison, most of his key people have been incarcerated, and his offshore empire has crumbled."

“On March 31, 2002, Global officially went out of business, replaced by Pinnacle Quest, International (PQI). At the official introductory gathering at the Hyatt Hotel in Bellevue... "

"A lawsuit has already been filed against Pinnacle Quest in Arizona.”

"On April 22, 2002, Squaw Valley California residents Terri Yvonne Lewis (42), and Steven Lyle Anderson (37), each pled guilty in US District Court/Fresno to charges related to conspiracy and obstruction of justice. The defendants are children of Wayne Anderson and they were charged with shredding documents and erasing computer files in an effort to thwart a federal grand jury investigation.”

“The reality is that Global, much like Investors International, holds seminars in exotic places where the true believers rally round and sing the system’s praises to new initiates while (more or less) independent hucksters promote their particular schemes to the attendees.”

“North Dakota issued a cease and desist order to keep the company from doing business there.”

“On top of the $1,200 audiotape package, Global members are invited to attend seminars in places like Cancun, Mexico and the Bahamas where independent entrepreneurs pay IGP to make their pitch. The cost of attendance: $6,250. For more than 12 hours a day, the attendees sit through one sales pitch after another for real estate prospects, tax avoidance schemes and high-growth investment opportunities.”

More that 12 hours a day?

We wondered if it was one of these things where they won't let you pee.

Ruppert said, “Am I aware that some members of PQI have had criminal charges pressed against them? Absolutely! So have many dedicated patriots and whistleblowers throughout our country's history…”

"The Paul Revere Ponzi Scheme?"

We tried to picture it. It was a little hard. But "9/11 Flim-Flam Man" was an easy image to conjure up.

Ruppert's PQI, with its fresh start to do right this time, has already been in trouble.

In U.S. Court proceedings filed in Oklahoma against a former PQI consultant, for example, whose actions were described as being part of "perhaps the largest and most notorious tax fraud scheme in history."

The Massachusetts Securities Commission declared Global Prosperity Group (which was closed down in May last year and "re-opened" the next day as PQI) to be "an illegal pyramid scheme."

They were ordered permanently to cease trading in that state.

PQI sales consultants are in New Zealand promoting a "three-stage educational process," we learned.

"First, you buy a set of instructional CDs (cost, $2200). Second, you attend a seminar. The next is in Mexico (cost, $10,800). Then, you attend another seminar on a cruise ship (cost, nearly $26,000). These fees cover entry to the seminar and purchase of the CDs. They do not include airfares, accommodation, food or expenses."

“Pinnacle Quest International (PQI) is a US company that promises to introduce you to "secret companies" that will provide returns of over 100 percent, and teach you how to avoid ever paying tax again. You'll also be in line for some hefty consultant commissions.”

"People like Queen Elizabeth II and Muhammad Ali are involved with PQI. Not many people know this," sales consultants confided.

"As for the secret companies, only the mega-rich have known about them up until now."

Could it all be somehow true?

"The lion will lay down with the lamb...But only one will get back up."

Neither Queen Elizabeth nor Muhammad Ali responded to MadCowMorningNews requests for confirmation of their involvement in secret companies for the mega-rich as touted by PQI.

Could they be hiding something?

Maybe they just don't want the masses in the cheap seats to know about it...

More likely that the self-appointed "pit-bull of 9/11" & the 'Fearless Leader' of the 9.11 'Truth Movement cadre' is all out of credibility except when hawking secret companies at 9.11 cadre functions, during those odd moments when they're not going all out in search for the real truth.

John Gray’s financing of infomercials touting Zwicker’s new 9-11 documentary were vastly more entertaining that Ruppert’s thoughts on cancer cures, anyway. Greedy People are as endlessly fascinating as their many schemes; those who have just "Gone Puffy" are only good for a laugh if they can also pull off sticking their hand inside their shirt, Napoleon-like.

Canadian talk host Zwicker's laissez faire attitude towards the controversy had a brazen quality that was not altogether unattractive... "John is helping out financially with various aspects of the 9/11 skeptics movement,” Zwicker sniffed. “In my own case there are no gifts. The money has to be paid back."

We try to think the best of people.

At least Zwicker wasn't holding forth on curing cancer.

In this crowd that's a plus.

So we prefer to think his motivation for his new 9.11 infomercial reflects nothing more heinous that a desire to meet "Stop the Insanity's" Susan Powter.

As German author Broeckers said dryly, “That a 9.11 conference of investigators probing to learn the truth about the attack could be funded by the very people supposedly being investigated... came to me as quite a surprise.”

Unlike the droll Broeckers, some writers use a full wind-up first, before throwing their Khashoggi pitch…

“Adnan Khashoggi’s mercenary army of global corporate criminals lives in Mafia mansions, basks in the political limelight, enjoys the privileges of royalty in tyrannical desert dystopias, and sips vodka in the shadow of gleaming Moscow spires,” wrote Alex Constantine.

As Dr. John Gray, "Ph.D." himself might put it: "Wow, what a powerful share."

"John-Boy of Arabia"

Constantine's litany of miscreants form the backbone of the organization we call "Saudi Genesis," whose backing and marketing prowess made John Gray a franchise and a household name, we discovered.

Here's what happened: Men Are From Mars was not an instant hit when it was first published. Almost ten months after its release, Gray’s flagship book had received little acclaim and climbed no best seller lists.

Enter Adnan Khashoggi and lieutenant Ramy El Batrawi, who, we learned, has also used the nom de guerre “Remy Al-Batswani,” while running an air carrier for Khashoggi used in illegal shipments of arms to Iran which was eventually placed on the State Department’s list of “unsavory” companies and barred from doing business with any agency of the U.S. Government.( http://pmdtc.org/debar059.htm )

"It took a year to get on the best-seller list,” said Jack McKeown, president and publisher of HarperCollins trade group, in an interview.'

John Gray is the beneficiary of a turbocharged marketing campaign, in which the author is an active partner.”

So John Gray owes his huge success and resulting fortune to Khashoggi’s “Saudi Genesis,” an intricate web of rapidly changing corporate fronts and dummy corporations with the word “Genesis” in their name, involved in wholesale criminal fraud that looks to be a textbook example of a Continuing Criminal Enterprise.

Saudi money picked up John Gray's book (and Gray himself) and ran with it; creating infomercials that drove sales of until they became a worldwide publishing phenomenon. Michael C. Ruppert and the phony [side of the] 9/11 'Truth Movement' are defending taking money from owes his fame and success to Saudi money from Adnan Khashoggi, provided through a company incorporated by Barry Seal’s attorney, the same man currently suing us [Hopsicker] for 'emotional distress.'

No doubt this is just a freak coincidence.

Gray is even alleged to be involved, in papers filed in a major lawsuit in Federal Court in Minneapolis, in the recent $200 million looting the Genesis principals engaged in while on their way out of town.

His trading account was used in the scheme, alleges the suit.

But apparently that doesn't make him a close associate of Adnan Khashoggi...not at least for purposes of taking money from him.

Not in Michael Ruppert's book.

...

"The boys" from Tampa & L.A.

From their base in Tampa Florida, Khashoggi and El Batrawi controlled a network of companies, all using the word “Genesis” in their name.

[Half of the "Al-Queda" funding came out of Tampa as well through Al-Arain, who was a close personal friend of George W. Bush:

Versions of the company have traded under a number of stock symbols: GNNX; NTER; BMOO; GMGI; and GENI... What's the purpose? [Guess! according to Catherine Austin Fitts, above...]

Clearly this is a difficult company to keep track of...exactly the idea.

One innocent businessman who had a website mistakenly associated with 'the boys' at "Saudi Genesis" posted this desperate explanation for why he had nothing at all to do with them:

"Over the last several weeks, I have put together these facts:

The Scammers might be related to Genesis Media Group, a subsidiary of GenesisIntermedia Inc. GenesisIntermedia is in financial trouble. See the section below about GenesisIntermedia.

The Scammers have a website of www.familyproductsllc.com which is only an email front, there is no "real" website there. You can email customerservice@familyproductsllc.com which is their published email address. Most persons have not gotten a response.

The Scammers may use the following websites: www.ab-energizer-exercise.com, www.ab-fitness-exercise.com, www.familyproductsllc.com. More information about the owners of these websites follows in this email (Including address and phone numbers).

The Scammers may use the following phone numbers: 1-800-457-0825, 1-800-801-6130, 1-888-602-7878, 1-818-902-4100 fax: 123 123 1234, 1-888-255-2525..." [if you call those or invest in companies with these numbers, how did you get money to invest in the first place?]

“The proof is in the patterns! And so are the trading profits!”

The "Saudi Genesis" companies specialized in marketing to the masses, through infomercials and on the internet. Everything from Plastic Surgeons Crème to ab-energizers to fraudulent get rich quick schemes like “Trade Your Way to Riches,” created after Ramy El-Batrawi of Genesis approached Jake Bernstein at a seminar in Burbank, California about the possibility of marketing Bernstein's futures trading products through the creation of an infomercial.

Jake Bernstein billed himself as the world's foremost authority on pattern recognition and cycles and author of over 25 trading books.

(He must be pretty good at recognizing when its time to leave town, at least, cause he hasn't gone to prison recently.) Bernstein website: "Jake found an easier way to get rich. Instead of trading futures he would trade on investor gullibility," wrote a whistleblower.

Bernstein starred in an infomercial that aired on 400 TV stations, hyping a video course called Trade Your Way to Riches. A farmer named Harold Henkel told viewers how well Bernstein's approach has worked for him.

Henkel later admitted he lost money trading using Bernstein's products.

We hope his “endorsement fee” made up for it.

Critics were unkind to Jake.

“There's one born every minute. Seasonal Suckers is the cold truth about Jake Bernstein's futures theories.”

"Jake Bernstein has a lousy record trading futures but has made plenty trading on investor gullibility"

The boys at Genesis Intermedia made out like bandits.

The C’mon Back Scandal Revisited

And then there's the Genesis Communications Network.

There's actually two of them, seemingly unrelated, but they're so extremely similar in the fraud department to each other and to "Saudi Genesis" that the relationship appears strongly familial.

We're still uncertain as to how close they all are; kissing cousins, at the very least.

The first GCN is a so-called "patriot" network hosting Alex Jones and Dave Van Kliest, the, ah, the individual fronting for the latest See the Flash extravaganza, advertisements for which are spamming the Internet at a rate that must be causing concern among conservationists of our digital landscape of '1's and ' 0's.'

VanKliest is our pick for Disinfotainer of the Year… an especial honor, considering that there was some fierce competition.

Of course, "See the Flash Dave" from the powerhour, like Alex Jones, is part of the GENESIS Communications Network. ( gcnlive.com ) ( genesis radio hosts )

[Interesting...]

He reminds us of Tattoo from Fantasy Island, pointing and shouting “De Plane! De Plane!”

When we fingered this checkered crew in last week's story for involvement in what we termed the “C’mon back scandal,” we hadn't meant it literally... So we clearly underestimated them, because they’re not above personally getting behind the wheel when the opportunity arises to “to back up a truck.”

They're [Kleist?] involved in an internecine scandal, documented on the web at some length by “Christians” for whom time must hang heavy during the long Montana winter... "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7:15," their screed began.

“Christian Media has repeatedly sought to expose the treachery at the Genesis Communications Network…They stole their original equipment from another patriot network named Republic Radio. Fraudulently claiming they had purchased the network, the management of Genesis literally backed up a U-Haul, and loaded up the broadcasting equipment while the rightful owner was out of town!”

Lily Tomlin, Prophetess of Our Times, said, “No matter how cynical I get I just can’t keep up.”

Welcome Back to “Honk-if-You-Love-Jesus World.”

GCN programming “broadly ranges from provocative politics to gardening, health and pop culture, and targets specific audiences with useful guidelines for surviving & prospering in an increasingly complex and challenging political and socio-economic environment."

The Exec VP at Genesis Communications Network in Minnesota is Michael@midasreport.com ( Midas Report ) We noticed the address at the bottom. Mike with the “Midas Touch” shares the same address as another website called "BRIDGES FOR PEACE," where you can "VISIT ISRAEL WITHOUT LEAVING YOUR COMPUTER."

Bridges For Peace is a Jerusalem-based, Bible-believing Christian organization supporting Israel and building relationships between Christians and Jews worldwide through education and practical deeds expressing God's love and mercy…

Whatever these people think they’re doing its clear their mind is on only one thing: TAKING THE RUBES FOR A RIDE. WARNING: The following links should not be clicked on by anyone with difficulty metabolizing sugar, or who are allergic to gagging…

celebratelove.com

mymasterytvnet.commymasterytvbiz.com

celebrateintimacy.comauthorsandspeakersnetwork.com

Take a peek at Larry, for example.

“Larry James - Internet secrets revealed! Larry reveals what he considers to be the most important key to shameless self-promotion on the Internet. This article has loads of shameless examples! This article appears in the book, "Confessions of Shameless Internet Promoters" by Debbie Allen. Now available in Larry's Book Store in the Author/Speaker Section.”

We appreciated that they didn't make a cheap buck commercializing the 9.11 tragedy in every sentence. Just in every other sentence...

"Midas Resources has a fully trained team of professionals with decades of experience in the coin and metal markets. We are here to assist you and to provide you with personal service and attention. We specialize in U.S. semi-numismatic coins. Coins of historical significance to collectors that derive a substantial portion of their value from their underlying gold or silver value…The new U.S. $20 dollar bill contains hidden pictures of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks!”

...

The weird thing about the second Genesis Communications Network--in Florida--is that it doesn't appear that any of their listed websites were real websites.

They look like ghost websites...Most have no links to them... at all.

Some look like commerce sites, but they don’t appear to sell ‘nothin to nobody.’

They reminded us of a fake street front at Universal Studios Check a few out, then click the Alexa tag.

syncpac.net

bizbanc.net

ecommxpress.comalexa details

alexa details

alexa details

They were like website “Ghost ships.”

consumer1st.com

advancedscientifichealth.com

savethe-usa.combusinessownersinstitute.org

commissionsoft.com

fsicorporate.com alexa details

It was spooky. And then we read something about the Genesis Communications Network in Florida that made out heart grow cold… or at least cold-er.

In the July 23, 2001 South Florida Business Journal was a story called “Florida's tech leader under investigation.”

“The state's chief information officer is under investigation for grand theft. Roy Thomas Cales Jr., 39, has been accused of using a forged letter to obtain a loan from the Farmers and Merchants Bank of Tallahassee on which he later defaulted,” the story started. The story said, “Cales was on a Latin American trade mission trip with Gov. Jeb Bush and was not available to discuss the investigation.”

We got a picture of "trade mission" that looked like a couple of guys bringing girls back to the hotel.

But then, we're not trained Remote Viewers. But we saw something much more serious.

“Cales had complete decision-making authority over what kind of computers each state agency purchases, who gets hired to take care of them and what they do with them.”

The next line made some sense of the 2000 Presidential Election in Florida: “The current investigation on Cales is not his first brush with the law.”

“When Bush was elected Florida's governor in 1998, he vowed his administration would bring honesty, integrity and truthfulness to state government. A key aspect of that quest has been the use of technology, such as the state's MyFlorida.com Web site, to provide full information to the public.

“The point person behind the effort had been Cales, whom Bush has publicly referred to as his "chief tech dude."

“Point dude” had full authority as the state’s chief information officer to do pretty much anything he wanted.

In a controversy surrounding a fishy no-bid computer sales, newspapers around Florida reported that EMC2, a Boston-based computer company, had sold $4.3 million in computer equipment to three state agencies without having to go through competitive bidding.

Financing for the deals at all three agencies, it turned out, was worked out by [Gov. Jeb Bush co-trade mission "chief tech dude"] Cales.

We really really really wanted to know if they’d used the computers in the states’ election efforts...

But we were frankly too afraid to find out to read further.

Everybody has their limits. We’d just reached ours.

...

Like the attack itself, the story of the secret network involved in a coordinated and apparently government-sponsored cover up of the 9/11 attack sprawls across the widest canvas imaginable.

“It involves a fugitive arms dealer, two convicted drug dealers (one reportedly murdered by a Colombian cocaine hit squad), the CIA, and golden oldie (operatives) from the Iran/Contra scandal,” wrote business journalist extraordinaire Christopher Byron in an article about Genesis called “Kiosks, Cocaine, and Khashoggi.”

Its a succinct summation, and we’d be tempted to let it stand, except to mention added elements including, the Power Hour, the Solar Temple, the Heaven’s Gate cult, dozens and dozens of shell corporations and dummy front companies…

Start with this scene from the Heaven’s Gate story.

The world first learned something was amiss with Hale Bopp on the Art Bell Show. A beautiful and fiery display in the heavens, Hale Bopp was wowing all...

Then one evening in November the Art Bell program received a call from Chuck Schramek, an amateur astronomer from Houston, home of John Gray. Schramek said he’d been "imaging" the comet with his telescope and a camera, and had taken a photo of what appeared to be another body close to the comet with a "ring like" form.

Schramek called it a "Saturn Like Object.” The frenzy began. [And a 1930s Orson Wells smiled, "got them again."]

People wondered: “What on earth could that Saturn-like image be to the right of the comet?”

Following Schramek as a guest on Bell's show [conveinently with that call in] was Professor Courtney Brown -- a tenured political science professor at Emory University in Atlanta, author of a book called "Cosmic Voyage," and president and owner of Farsight Institute, a company specializing in "scientific remote viewing."

Their remote viewers had found the mysterious "companion" object to be larger than Earth, hollow and "under intelligent control" -- a kind of planetary spaceship hitching a ride on the comet.

Now people really wondered.

But we discovered that Prof. Brown may have been experiencing something of a "personal crisis" at the time, when we found this quote he’d spoken the year before in a profile...

“Following the discovery of life on Mars, Professor Courtney Brown of Emory University, Atlanta, has revealed that civilization there is dying, so the aliens have established an underground colony in New Mexico,” the piece read.

"All the prestige I've got is resting on whether there is anything in this," Brown revealed. "I'd be crazy if I went public without being certain."

A Mello Yellow Mars & Venus

For ourselves, we wish he'd held that thought somewhat longer.

Because when Brown appeared again on Bell's program, he brought along Prudence Calabrese, his 'assistant,' who told Bell's audience that a well-known astrophysicist at a "top ten university" had sent Brown information confirming Farsight's remote-viewing results.

This astrophysicist, she went on, had taken several hundred photographs of the luminous object, which was not only real, but emanating "unambiguous radio signals."

More significantly, the unnamed gentleman from the prestigious university planned to hold a press conference in a week to announce his findings.

Meanwhile, he’d sent three rolls of undeveloped film, one of which had "very good astronomical photographs," in Calabrese's estimation.

She claims to have been part of the CIA's onetime effort to learn more about the Soviets via extrasensory perception (ESP), in a project channeled through (or by) California's formidable Stanford Research Institute.

But guess what’s she’s doing now?

If you said “Protecting the Homeland in the fight against terrorism” you could probably get a job there yourself... Or at least a gig working for the San Diego FBI, which retained the services of her firm's 14 employees to assist their efforts to guess where the terrorists will strike next.

This required, she told reporters, "thinking out of the box."

So that's three people in our story making their way in the world with the help of the San Diego FBI: The Unnamed Saudi, our Iranian friend Sam the Sham, and a woman who can see things a really really loooooog ways off. This is a curious crew, and makes one wonder what can be gleaned from it about the San Diego FBI's criterion for employment. [Moreover, some of the "Al-Queda hijackers" actually roomed with San Diego FBI connections" for a while:

"The FBI internal report examines the three best-known episodes in which the bureau, which is the lead agency for counterterrorist activities within the United States, missed or ignored important signals of the coming terrorist attacks. Two of the cases involved local FBI agents who voiced suspicions that were disregarded or suppressed by FBI headquarters. In the third case, the CIA deliberately kept the FBI in the dark--with the assistance of certain FBI officials.

The first instance is the electronic memo of July 10, 2001 from Kenneth Williams, an FBI agent in Phoenix, Arizona, noting the number of students with ties to radical Islamic fundamentalists enrolled at local aviation training schools, and suggesting that a nationwide canvass of these schools be carried out to determine if there was a pattern.

The second is the bureau?s response to the arrest of Zaccarias Moussaoui, an Islamic fundamentalist who was detained by the Immigration and Naturalization Service after his attempts to obtain training on a Boeing 747 aroused suspicions at a Minneapolis-area flight school. Moussaoui was detained on immigration charges in early August 2001, but FBI headquarters blocked efforts by Minneapolis agents to pursue an investigation that could have identified other Al Qaeda operatives at US flight schools.

The third is the case of Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, believed to have participated in the hijacking of American Airlines Flight 77, which hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Despite being on a CIA watch list because of connections to Al Qaeda, the two lived openly in San Diego, California for a year or more. The CIA only notified the FBI of their presence in the US on August 27, 2001, 20 months after their arrival, and only two weeks before September 11."

[Guess that remote viewing failed to work for the FBI, or it just turned up pictures of the FBI helping the terrorists, as the U.S. Gov't's own report noted above.]

Fast forward: The mysterious astronomer never turned up. The photos turned out fake. A cleverly manipulate photo taken from the university of Hawaii website, reversed and rotated to conceal its origin. And according to a sci fi zine called Ansible, Schramek had used his tech skills for hoaxes before. ( link )

“The thing is, Charles Schramek and I went to high school together,” said Gregory Frost. “We occasionally cooked up batches of helium, filled dry cleaner bags with it, attached pie tins containing flares to the bottoms, then sent the bags off into the night….we would call the local airport and report having sighted UFOs. Now and then, especially when other people saw our little flare balloons and called in, too, we made the local papers.”

"I was on hand on one occasion when he ran his voice through a filter that made him sound like Sonar the Warp Master while he communicated with some gullible ham radio operators elsewhere. Chuck convinced a whole flock of them that he was a space alien from Venus.”

Chuck was an inveterate prankster, a ham radio operator, and deviously technological. Just like John Gray, who’d called himself a computer programmer at one time. We wondered if they knew each other. We're pretty sure 'mum's the word' with Gray; and Schramek is dead and can't tell us, either, unless we can cough up enough money for a Ouiji board.

[The last apple of the barrel, I guess, for this government psyop operation, was Schramek:]

Said his high school buddy: “He told us one night that he had pulled a great prank on a neighbor who numbered among the believers by dressing all in black and wrapping his head in aluminum foil, then peering into the windows of the neighbor's house. So when I discovered that the UFO dogging comet Hale-Bopp had been photographed by one Charles Schramek, and that this "discovery" was making a splash in national news, I had a lot of trouble sitting upright for awhile.”

“Chuck was the only person I ever knew who'd actually tried smoking banana peels. It gave him a headache.”

This was the final straw. Maybe we’d just see too much for one day.

We'd slipped on an electrical banana peel on the way to the Level Above Human, and fallen, and now we can’t get up.

We wondered idly if “The Clapper” was a Khashoggi deal. It probably doesn’t matter...

There is no fiction to match these times. We've all been Overtaken by Events.

It was time to turn on television.

“Disturbed by what it takes just to prepare the evening meal?”

"See the Flash? How 'bout Now? See it Now?"

Probably we will always be being sued, given the current state of America's "not too damn free anymore" press. Please help us continue by making a donation directly into our defense fund.

Are the majority of American's "estranged from the truth" or are they just stuck furiously treading water in order to keep their loved ones afloat?

Richard,Isn't obvious enough that this is intentional, that we're kept furiously treading water so as to keep us estranged from truth? If they wanted us educated, informed, and able to enjoy enough leisure time to actively participate in their government "of, by, and for the people," we'd have a very different world, wouldn't we? But you know we just have to trust that the invisible hand of the market, the divinely ordained mechanism that is alleged to drive all human endeavor, must know what it's doing when it decides to pay the CEO 420 times what it pays the worker on the plant floor, or when it decides that the Brazilian rain forest would be better employed as a short term cattle range for McBurgers, right?

The truth we're most estranged from is that it doesn't have to be this way, that our choices are not limited to soul-killing totalitarian regimes of the Right and Left. Economies of abundance provide their abundance by not squandering resources and by not concentrating power in any corruptibly human hands. Especially not in invisible hands.

Yo, who needs disinfo agents...all you jackasses do the job well enough yourselves...cut and paste, cut and paste, "you're an ass," "no, you're an ass,"...sheeet, lets say there really is a worldwide conspiracy who have trillions of dollars of economic influence and power and an unimaginably complicated web of narco-military force which spans the entire goddamn globe and hundreds if not thousands of years of human history...they're gonna be worried enough about a site like this to send disinfo agents...really?...talk about a narcissistic messiah complex...hey buddy, they're all out to get you...now pop you're damn prozac...I'm willing to give everyone who posts here a benefit of the doubt and say "your just a normal shmuck like me" and just get on with exploring the cool, er...twisted...ideas that jeff seems to explore...man, talk about some paranoid freaks with absolutely no sense of perspective...

IC, meet your so called "invisible hands"--visible three times over through the single controller of US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora.--and that single controller is Nicholas Rockefeller, 9-11 Insider.

Find out about these three corporations below.

The Re-Visible Rockefeller Hand: the Private Global Panopticon as a Rockefeller family Enterprise, under Nicholas Rockefeller, 9-11 Insider;

The Very Visible Nelson Rockefeller's Invisible Panopticon: His United Nations Aired Ideas for a Private Proprietary Database and Technology for a Global Wireless Cashless Consumer Panopticon, all under Nicholas Rockefeller, a 9-11 Insider

The cashless society will be controlled by the Rockefellers, and it will be microwave based, wireless, and controlled off the phone tower network.--If he has his way. China is his model. See what he is doing in China below, and see how there is huge synergy between his fingers and his minions' fingers in the corporations US Search, Zebasearch, and GlobalAgora--all linked to him.

INTRODUCTION: NICHOLAS ROCKEFELLER AS 9-11 INSIDER ELEVEN MONTHS IN ADVANCE OR MORE

Nicholas Rockefeller predicted in early 2000 to his "un-recruitable to the CFR" friend, Aaron Russo (which probabaly led in the past several years for Russo to rush through making America: Freedom to Fascism), that an event would soon happen to allow for a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Eleven months later, Russo, said, Nicholas Rockefeller got his wish: the 9-11 events happend and sure enough, soon there was a Caspian pipeline, an Afghanistan invasion, and an Iraq invasion.

Hollywood director and documentary film maker Aaron Russo, currently receiving a wave of plaudits for his latest release, America: From Freedom to Fascism [watch for free], told The Alex Jones Show that Nicholas Rockefeller had personally assured him there was going to be an "event" that would trigger the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq eleven months before 9/11 took place.

Saying he had been approached many times by the Rockefellers and other members of the CFR elite in an attempt to recruit him, Russo recalled a conversation that would come home to roost on September 11, 2001.

"Here's what I do know first hand - I know that about eleven months to a year before 9/11 ever happened I was talking to my Rockefeller friend (Nicholas Rockefeller) and he said to me 'Aaron there's gonna be an event' and he never told me what the event was going to be - I'm not sure he knew what the event was going to be I don't know that he knew that," said Russo.

Russo related how Rockefeller knew precisely what the event would lead to and which countries would be militarily targeted by the elite.

"He just said there's gonna be an event and out of that event we're gonna invade Afghanistan so we can run pipelines through the Caspian sea, we can go into Iraq to take the oil and establish bases in the middle east and to make the middle east part of the new world order and we're going to go after Venezuela - that's what's going to come out of this event."

"Eleven months to a year later that's what happened....he certainly knew that something was going to happen."

"In my relationships with some of these people I can tell you that it's as evil as it really gets - this is it - this is the game," stated Russo - also relating how members of the elite were routinely obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times.

"...obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times..."--say, through a cashless purchase network, that is "no opt out, sorry"? How could anyone ever get such a totalitarian system off the ground, you ask. People would opppose it.

However, it's been in opreation live as a test model in China since July 2001. And this is linked to Nicholas Rockefeller as well, through GlobalAgora "proprietary" wireless phone network purchasing, in league with only Chinese state owned shopping department stores.

Who is Nicholas Rockefeller?

A closet member of the Pakistani ISI, its chief known to have paid off Mohammad Atta soom before a meeting with U.S. Congressmen for a "working breakfast" in the U.S. Capitol during the events of 9-11?

A member of the Chinese Communist Party?

A global corporate revolutionary for a police state consumer infrastructure run by his family?

Can he be all three?

And more to the point, if he got 9-11 right, what else is Nicholas Rockefeller "planning?"

picture:http://www.globalagora.com/elena.htm

Nicholas Rockefeller is or was a partner in the law firm of Perkins Cole LLP. First surname Perkins is Skull and Bones 1830s-1840s drug lords--later Mr. Perkins of the same family is Morgan bank's right hand man. Morgan's right hand man Perkins lived in the White House with Teddy Roosevelt, just so Teddy could get the word from Morgan every morning what to do with himself.

Nelson Rockefeller's law practice has been marked by the filing of a brief on behalf of respondent in the Supreme Court case of United States v. O'Hagan and by the featuring of a number of his transactions in leading periodicals . He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, the International Institute of Strategic Studies, the Advisory Board of RAND, the Corporate Advisory Board of the Pacific Council on International Relations, the Board of the Western Justice Center Foundation, the Central China Development Council, and has served as a participant in the World Economic Forum and the Aspen Institute.

Nicholas Rockefeller recently chaired a panel at the United Nations on e-Commerce and is a co-author of Economic Strategy and National Security.

Strange it says co-author of this book in his official blurb--since he doesn't want people to know he co-authored this book in the wider public venue with his Rockefeller name on the cover--which for public consumption instead says it is merely "edited" by Patrick DeSouza, a close sponsored minion of Nicholas Rockefeller.

"Patrick DeSouza is a banker with Violy, Byorum & Partners Holdings LLC-an investment bank focused on Latin America. During 1997-98, he served in the White House as a Director for Inter-American Affairs on President Clinton's National Security Council. He is a graduate of Columbia College, Yale Law School, and Stanford Graduate School. Dr. DeSouza has been a term member, international affairs fellow, and the inaugural "Next Generation" fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He is the author of several articles on foreign economic policy and law.

The DeSouza/Rockefeller book was published in 2000, a year before 9-11, right as Nicholas Rockefeller was additionally toying with telling Aaron Russo he knew the 'when and why' of a future 9-11 event--so he assuredly knew the 'what where and who' as well.

The cloaked Nicholas Rockefeller book blurb of Economic Strategy and National Security, reads:

The years 1998 and 1999 were filled with economic events that illustrated the changing and complex agenda for American foreign policy in entering the new millennium. In this volume, former senior members of the Clinton and Bush Administrations and a "next generation" of private sector voices set forth and analyze the new intersections between economic strategy and national security. Emerging markets are considered, as well as new threats and new opportunities that are changing our conception of American security.This book arises from a three-year project by the Council on Foreign Relations, one of the world's premier foreign policy think tanks [founded by the Cecil Rhodes Anglo-American revolutionary internationalists], to articulate a "Next Generation" approach to American foreign policy. The volume is intended for those interested in foreign policy and as asupplement to university level courses on international relations and business.The financial, trade, technology, and regional and sectoral topics covered by this book are especially timely. World financial markets have showed themselves to be increasingly integrated and volatile with the introduction of new information technologies. Global markets for goods have showed themselves to be more fragmented and more difficult to free [i.e., enslave to the corporate internationalists] because of populist concerns over labor and environmental protections. [Those crazy super-majorities of the public of the world supporting "concerns over labor and environmental protections." (sarcasm)] Meanwhile, electronic commerce will change international economic relations. [It will? How, says author Nicholas Rockefeller? Because he owns the technology, keep reading.] Regionally, Asia and Russia-our post-Cold War focus-are economically in turmoil. Latin America, our fastest growing market and prospective twenty-first century focus, is teetering due to the lack of foreign reserves. In addition to these changing dynamics, new economic threats such as corruption and information terrorism counter balance new opportunities to influence the world through American know-how in technology and venture capital. [Nicholas Rockefeller talking about his autobiography once more thinking it is the same as talking world history: he's a Rockefeller proprietary technology owner and a venture capitalist.] As evidenced most clearly by the October 1998 vote on [unConstitutionally authorized] Fast Track trade authority for the president, domestic audiences seem to be fueled more by negative messages brought by "economic nationalists" than by those who seek a more "internationalist" approach [that "positively" supports destruction of labor rights worldwide and destruction of the enviroment (sarcasm)]. This communications reality is dangerous and requires attention [and police state apparatus to be in place and used] by the new generation of American leaders who have begun their run for the presidency by the time this book reaches the shelves. This book begins to outline new concepts-political, economic, and philosophical-for American foreign policy in the twenty-first century. In addition, it seeks to drive home the need for the American people to better understand our likely engagement in the new world upon which we are embarking.

Is that the "royal we" once more, Nicholas Rockefeller referring only to his own embarking on technology and e-commerce?

Are we really embarking with him? Or pushed, onto a sealed train car? Into a wireless e-commerce grid that he owns?

Those "dangerous economic nationalists" he talks about? Are they a security threat, in their eyes? What's the danger? Voting? (oh...well--they just took care of that in 2001-3 in the U.S., security mission accomplished for a one party state run "of the global pedophiles, by the global pedophiles, and for the global pedophiles, shall not perish from this earth".)

Nicholas Rockefeller has the same background institutionally as his covername DeSouza: Nicholas is a member of the Board of Visitors at the Law Schools of the University of Oregon and Pepperdine University and is active in the affairs of Yale University and Yale Law School, from which he graduated as well.

Another official biography left with the SEC for Nicholas Rockefeller reads: he is a partner with the international law firm of Perkins Coie, LLP where he represents a number of U.S. and foreign companies engaged in financial transactions based here and abroad. He brings to the Company his extensive experience in finance, international transactions, and government relations. Recently Mr. Rockefeller has been principal attorney in matters involving resort financing, U.S. government guarantee of a foreign investment, several venture capital capitalizations and middle market recapitalizations. Mr. Rockefeller also serves as a Managing Partner of the Rockvest Development Group and its affiliate, the Rockefeller International Fund. In recent years, the Fund has made substantial direct and portfolio investments in Emerging Market Economies. Domestically, the Group supervises investments in publicly traded securities and in private enterprises and maintains an active venture capital portfolio. He is Chairman of the Board of Rockefeller Asia, a financial services company with emphasis on infrastructure projects in telecommunications, transportation, and energy. He is a Managing Director of Trenwith Holdings, a merchant bank specializing in middle market transactions. Mr. Rockefeller is a director of Las Aquilas Doradas, the Campaign for Minority Engineers and the Western Justice Center Foundation. He is a member of the Board of Visitors of the University of Oregon Law School and The Pepperdine University School of Law. Also, Mr. Rockefeller is a permanent member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

http://www.zoominfo.com/directory/Rockefeller_Nicholas_13197185.htm

What's so intersting about the CFR issue is that another NWOderite, ex Vice Presidential Candidate and CFR member Gary Hart, was suprisingly working on yet another "prep for the police state dream organization" in his Hart-Rudman Commission, which he had ready by May 2001, ready to introduce after 9-11.

It is even reported that, in addition to Nicholas Rockefeller being in the know of 9-11 future events, Gary Hart was a 9-11 events insider on some level as well--since Hart he took it upon himself to 'warn Condi Rice' about not flying that day.

Who is Gary Hart to warn then National Security Adviser Condi Rice? Though perhaps that is indeed the proper question to ask.

Yet another Nicholas Rockefeller bio mentions that he has served as one of the Company's directors since February 1999. Mr. Rockefeller is an attorney with the law firm of Troop Meisinger Steuber Pasich Reddick & Tobey, LLP, and has been with the firm since June 1997, prior to which he was engaged in the private practice of law for ten years. Mr. Rockefeller also serves as a Managing Principal of the Rockvest Development Group and its affiliate, the Rockefeller International Fund, which supervises investments in publicly traded securities and private enterprises and maintains an active venture capital portfolio. Mr. Rockefeller is also Chairman of Rockefeller Asia, a financial services company. Mr. Rockefeller is a member of the California and Washington, D.C. bars, and holds a J.D. from Yale Law School. Mr. Rockefeller is the trustee of The SHMNM Investment Trust, which is currently a stockholder of the Company and which was established pursuant to a stockholders' agreement between Mr. NicholasMatzorkis and The Kushner-Locke Company.

The "SHMNM"? What?

Mr. Rockefeller was elected a director of the Company as the director designated by the trust pursuant to the stockholders' agreement.

What is this "SHMNM" group, involving Nicholas Rockefeller, Nicholas "Nick" Matzorkis, and The Kushner-Locke Company?

Is the Kushner-Locke Company somehow in the same global surveillance network? It's run out of Beverly Hills--where Matzorkis hails from as well--and is a corporation with 59 million dollars in stock. However, it owns some rather "slasher" violent low budget films in its collection.

Company Name Location Sales ($mil) Company TypeThe Kushner-Locke Company Beverly Hills, CA, United States $59.6 Public (Pink Sheets: KLOC)

Perhaps unsurprisingly, Nicholas Rockefeller, with his one link remove from the Hale Bopp Comet Cult connection, is interested in some kind of deal making with this Kushner-Locke Company, as it owns such "B-classic" death cult/psyop/(MKULTRA programming?) films.

Kushner-Locke has been hoping to get a lock on low budget television and film. The company owns 1,000-plus hours of original TV programming, including TV series, mini-series, and made-for-TV movies. Kushner-Locke's feature films are developed for cable, pay-TV, and theatrical markets. Its library includes approximately 250 titles, including Freeway; But I'm A Cheerleader; and The Last Time I Committed Suicide.

Struggling with debt, Kushner-Locke filed for Chapter 11 and has been operating under bankruptcy protection since 2001 [until "The Big (Hale) Bopper" Matzorkis comes along with Nicholas Rockefeller]. Kushner-Locke is in the process of reorganizing its operations and plans to exit bankruptcy in 2006--

--perhaps with a little help from the Rockefellers.

One Click Leads to 20 Years of Your Info[and three companies all linked to "9-11 insider" Nicholas Rockefeller in doing it]

Thursday, July 28, 2005

CHICAGO — Ray Schabell recently logged on to a popular people-search Web site, and was surprised to learn just how much personal information about himself was available with a couple of mouse clicks. [He would additionally be surprised to find that it is linked back to the Rockefeller family.]

Schabell, an Arlington Heights, Ill., resident, discovered that the Web site, Zabasearch (search), had all sorts of personal information — including dates of birth, home addresses and home phone numbers, both listed and unlisted.

"It’s incredible,” said Schabell. "It's got one ... two ... three ... four ... five ... six different addresses that I've lived at over the last 20 years."

...

But the easy availability of this kind of information to the general public makes some [majority of the] people nervous.

"Put this information in the wrong [Rockefeller] hands and it could be disastrous," said Schabell. "A lot of us have a reasonable expectation of privacy, and we're not getting it."

Companies like Zabasearch are part of a multibillion-dollar online people-search industry. But the surprising part is that the public helped build these massive Internet databases of names and addresses, often without realizing it.

"You gave [personal information] to somebody," said Zabasearch founder Nicholas Matzorkis [a founder with Nicholas Rockefeller connections] "You put it out there in the public domain. It could be subscribing to a magazine ... applying or getting a credit card... possibly filling out a sweepstakes."

Zabasearch, which gets over two million hits per day, does not list social security numbers on their Web site [publicly, that is], and Matzorkis says that it's impossible to steal somebody's identity from the type of information available on Zabasearch.

[Suddenly once private information is attempting to be turned into "only by request" in the panopticon society. And even then Matzorkis says, with a nyah-nyah: "doesn't eliminate it from the records or the voluminous public record databases". So go ahead. Opt out. Do it. It will just go in your file you WANTED to opt out. Thanks.]

People can "opt out" of websites like Zabasearch, but detailed personal information can still be found on the Internet.

"By removing your name or record from [our private Rockefeller files at] Zabasearch doesn't eliminate it from the records or the voluminous public record databases," said Matzorkis, who [just takes the public records back once more from the databases, and combines them] compares the effort to block the flow of information online to trying to use your fingers to plug a crumbling dam. ["A crumbling dam?" He likes crumbling dams? Or is that a dam with Rockefeller dynamite placed near the base that is "sorry, going to explode anyway, we are going to let it happen."]

"We have run out of appendages," [?] said Matzorkis. "There is no stopping the dam." [or the panopticon blitzkrieg, he is saying, is his Rockefeller ordered policy.]

Click here to learn more about protecting yourself from identify theft. [and likely hear a little digital evil laugh of Matzorkis played over and over]

Some Internet companies do ask for permission before collecting personal information, a process called "opting in." Internet privacy groups have long lobbied congress to make "opting in" the law. [which it should be, the default should be privacy, instead of automatic panopticon.]

But the [corrupt] federal government has instead gone in the opposite direction [of automatic panopticon and the privatization of surveillance databases thus without all those nasty legal issues if "the government" wants to know something illegally, it just hires someone else to find out for them in a private organization that colates the organization outside of it. The U.S. is...]...going for an "opt out" approach that puts the responsibility for online personal information squarely onto the individual. [even though Zabaseach says "just go ahead and try it?" "Opt out" is sort of like saying "I'm going to steal all the cars in your city at one go, if some of you want your cars back, you have the right to find me and ask me for them." The "opt out, sucker!" fascism ideology is additoinally being used on simply starting up forced medical testing of the general public in synthetic blood, a human experiment conducted through hospitals on unsuspecting people without their required knowledge in some cities throughout the U.S. Of course they say "you have the right to opt out", though they don't actually inform anyone they have already claimed jurisdiction over your private blood for an experiment should you be in an accident. Interestingly, the Rockefeller family in the early 1920s, had already bought up the blood bank infrastructure of the United States, as well.]

Beth Givens, director of the Privacy Rights Clearinghouse, a consumer advocacy group [so called], says that there isn’t much that an individual can do about having their personal information on the Internet.

"It is just plain not possible to wipe your information off of these databases," said Givens. [Thanks--with consumer watchdogs like you being quoted for the 'other side of the story', there is nothing on the other side of the story particularly when it contradicts the fact that a law could be passed to make "opt in" the only policy, period, as said above. Obviously she's not promoting much consumer privacy, despite her title.]

She says that while the type of [Rockefeller] information companies like Zabasearch offer is not in and of itself that useful to an identity thief, what identity thieves often do is put together bits and pieces of information from several different sources.

[..."often do is put together bits and pieces of information from several different sources..."--you mean like Nicholas Rockefeller? Who is connected to several of these database corporations as well as microwave digital e-commerce pilot projects in China, through types of special multi-purpose cell phones? Could that be one of the issues as well in the U.S.'s recent completely illegal (from the anti-monopoly laws on the books) consolidation of the phone companies networks? Or of course their illegal contract breaking use and monitoring of all phone calls, everywhere? The cashless society network will be off illegally consolidated and illegally tapped microwave phone networks and the cell phones.]

Givens says that the final piece of information necessary to steal somebody's identity — a social security number — comes from public records at a local level, often from property tax files. [However, this contradicts that social security numbers are indeed on the web as well, thus available for Zabasearch, unlike what she said, since:]

"A lot of counties are putting their government records on the Internet these days," said Givens. "And many of them if not most them are doing it without thinking [or WITH THINKING AND MALICE] about just what it is they are revealing."

[She just sort of thinks a global fascist surveillance database of phone records, consumer records, and governmental information in private jurisdition is just sort of being organized by mistake, I guess? She thinks that 100 monkeys in an office somewhere are randomly typing out corporate charters, and occassionally just by accident the write up for Zabaseach comes just out of the blue...?]

Ray Schabell says that he knows that his personal data has always been out there in the form of court records and other public records. But what he says disturbs him is that now anyone can collect that private information anonymously by computer.

"It just seems too simple to be able to gather all of that same information by clicking a mouse," said Schabell.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163404,00.html

Nicholas Rockefeller Test Marketing China as the Consumer Panopticon

Moreover:

There's a triple global surveillance connection between Matzorkis and Nicholas Rockefeller--through US Search (mentioned in the Hopsicker article), through ("supposedly non-Rockefeller") Zabasearch, and through another pair up of Nicholas Rockefeller and Matzorkis in GlobalAgora.

Before we get into GlobalAgora, remember this is the same person Nick Matzorkis:

After finding the bodies of 39 members of the Heaven’s Gate cult on a balmy afternoon in Southern California, arrayed in neat rows and wearing brand new Nikes, Nick Matzorkis became instantly famous.

...

“In contrast, Beverly Hills computer businessman Nick Matzorkis [who "discovered" the cult's bodies], who employed about a dozen cult members to design World Wide Web sites, had the impression that they were not being coerced. His employee Richard Ford, or "Rio," is the former cultist who discovered the bodies,” read a [dissembling] wire service account. "The one thing that's been made very clear to me in conversations with [his employee cult member] Rio is that anyone was free to leave at any time," Matzorkis said. [So Matzorkis is employing these "robotic" Hale Bopp cultists in his web businesses.]

...

Cultists deaths forgotten, Matzorkis went on to help raise $ 54 million in an Internet initial public stock offering for a heavily-advertised online venture called U.S. Search.com. Two years ago he founded a company in China with a partner with a slightly-more illustrious pedigree, Nicholas Rockefeller.--[the very person who is friends with Aaron Russo, who told Aaron 11 months before 9-11 some "event" would happen that would allow the Caspian oil pipeline and the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq.]

The press release announcing their company said the principals were “Nicholas Matzorkis, who in 1994 founded US SEARCH, the number one people locator service in the world, and Nicholas Rockefeller Esq., a leading venture capital counselor.

And the other Matzorkis-Rockefeller global surveillance corporation, GlobalAgora, "is believed to be the first U.S. company to launch first in the People's Republic" Why launch a consumer wireless network in a one party police state? Because a bastion of a police state without any consumer rights or history of seeming rights to privacy (the Chinese supposedly don't even have a word for "personal space") seems to be serving the Rockefellers as culture for an experimental society model without pesky human rights issues, a state supremacy model that the U.S. "opt out only" model he desperately wants to emulate and export elsewhere without all those "pesky rights" people have around the world. So the totalitarian Chinese help Nicholas Rockefeller perfect the bugs in the consumer panopticon, in a police state environment with Nicholas Rockefeller first. Then he with his PROPRIETARY technology for it, exports the model to the world--and the U.S.

"Global Agora China Inc. ("GAC"), a Hong Kong corporation, has developed and deployed (Opening Ceremonies July 28, 2001--mere months before 9-11 made their technology more "salable" in other countries) a proprietary "wireless retailing" technology platform ("Platform"). This [private Rockefeller] platform currently enables China for wireless retailing, which allows consumers to use wireless Internet phones (WAP) to browse, pay, and take delivery of virtually everything available to Chinese retail consumers. The company's fulfillment partner, Wuhan Department Store Group, is the most profitable publicly-traded retail chain in China. Wuhan Department Store Group is under the aegis of the National Trade Union of China (the"NTU"), a retail industry group of 20 state-controlled department store chains with revenues in excess of RMB 40 billion ($5 billion US). A select number of VIP shoppers ("VIP") can presently order from over 40,000 items of merchandise using Internet (WAP) enabled phones. GAC wireless retailing is available to Wuhan Plaza's top VIP shoppers whom account for $80 million U.S. annually in retail sales. Next, the service will be made available to the VIP shopper base of the other NTU members' whom account for RMB 37 billion ($3.5 billion U.S.) annually in retail sales throughout all major markets in China. Ultimately, we will pursue deeper market penetration into the burgeoning general populace."http://www.globalagora.com/CoOv.htm

"Ultimately, we will pursue deeper market penetration into the burgeoning general populace."

And with an "opt out only" framework in place similarly, your transaction is public before it will ever be private, if ever. The "if ever" is soon obviously their global fascist and totalitarian ideal where you can ONLY PURCHASE things on your Rockefeller phones, through such a WAP network.

"Reach out and spy on someone"

Remember that Nicholas Rockefeller recently chaired a panel at the United Nations on e-Commerce as well. He's thinking of making his proprietary global cashless society technology and his "Rockefeller phones" a U.N. mandate or something.

Then there is the useful "Igor" to the Dr. Frankenstein (Rockefeller) here, Mr. Matzorkis. Instead of running out in the dark night to get the brain for Dr. Frankenstein's creature, Matzorkis is running out in the daylight and building the global consumer database and cashless consumer panopticon technology simultaneously linked to Nicholas Rockefeller, creaing a self-filing purchaing technology connected to a wireless microwave phone network and your Rockefeller phone.

These are the two main tools for the Rockefeller Creature of the 21st century--the Rockefeller "proprietary" global cashless society technology platform, and the Rockefeller phones (the WAP).

This is a global private network of tyranny of his family in the making--over the world's consumer data and personal monitoring without an "opt out" in sight.

Matzorkis makes a good Igor: from auto thief, to slightly hiding his hump as Beverly Hills businessman running Hale Bopp MKULTRA cult programmed members, and then perhaps just another half step up where he has to hide his hump a bit more, partnered in an international company with a scion of the Rockefeller clan...just another heady (or humpy) American success story? Hopsicker writes on Matzorkis:

To paraphrase Latin ballplayer Chico Esquella’s famous line on Saturday Night Live:

“Heaven’s Gate Been Berry Berry Good to Me.”

There’s no real way to ask the question politely: Are Matzorkis’ connections with Nicholas Rockefeller coincidental to his earlier involvement with the Heaven’s Gate Cult?

GlobalAgora-China Team

Nicholas Matzorkis, Founder and CEO, is the visionary behind GlobalAgora.

Mr. Matzorkis conceptualizes, builds, and makes businesses work.

Mr. Matzorkis' skills encompass President/CEO management experience, world standard hands-on Internet technology expertise, and a notable track record of marketing strategy successes. Previously, Mr. Matzorkis founded US SEARCH which became the number one people locator service in the world, a 100 most-visited web site, and the top distributor of public record information on the Internet.

US SEARCH had its IPO in 1999 and is traded on the NASDAQ exchange. Nicholas Rockefeller is Chairman of the Board of Advisors of Global Agora.

"In my relationships with some of these people [like Nicholas Rockefeller] I can tell you that it's as evil as it really gets--this is it--this is the game," stated Russo--also relating how members of the elite were routinely obsessed by creating a world identification society where people had to carry ID cards and prove who they were at all times.

Look out for the Rockefeller phones.

They are already live in China from 2001, and Nicholas Rockefeller is talking to the U.N. about them.

"I'm willing to give everyone who posts here a benefit of the doubt and say "your just a normal shmuck like me" and just get on with exploring the cool, er...twisted...ideas that jeff seems to explore..."

Ok, in the spirit of staroute that all types have a place here,feel free to engage.

Are you a material realist? Do you consider that the world is in reality pretty much like it is presented as being on the nightly news? If not where does the variation come in?

"At RigInt here, you really have to open your mind to keeping in mind that your main assumptions might be dashed at any moment around here and that culture and counterculture can have a common completely disinfo based origin."

Most people may allow their derivative assumptions to be modifyied yet few will mess with their foundation assumptions. They are what has made us after all. The contest between (underlying) Platonic idealists and Sophists of the wisdom tradition is seldom seen as relevant and yet it represents a consistent dividing point or choice for expression of ones mentality. Information for one side is of necessity dis-information to the other side. It’s really dis-information all round.

This also is rigint on;

"Though unless you give people something to wear in substitution before they have it demolished, they would rather wear the disinfo as their own I have come to observe, than want to know it was someone else's lies they are leading."

"I think RigInt is for those who are willing to take some time peeling and poking beyond these veils--some worn so closely that no one is even aware of them--until they are pointed out."

One caveat, when that stuff beyond the veils is pointed to, it does not get support from communal representations and can therefor be easily derided and ignored,-even when pointed out. So the new 'something to wear' will have to cross many culturial boundaries and be aesthetically much more pleasing than our current material realist habbits.

Tip of the Hat to Anonymous for the refreshing slap--who, indeed, cares what a few malcontents cut, paste and/or pontificate? Narcissitic messiah complexes do abound--I'm as guilty as anyone, but that's not to say that that saving the world ain't a grand cause. We're fleas on the backs of raging wildebeests; if they notice us at all, I think it's more likely they do so out of amusement than fear. But by all means, take your mission seriously, Mr. Persson: stop this dangerous discussion before the Powers That Be are brought to their knees...to scratch at the damned fleas.

Or, we could look back to W.H. Auden, who wrote this poem to mark the date that, well, you guys know...But has anything changed? Starroute?

SEPTEMBER 1, 1939

I sit in one of the divesOn Fifty-second StreetUncertain and afraidAs the clever hopes expireOf a low dishonest decade: Waves of anger and fear Circulate over the brightAnd darkened lands of the earth, Obsessing our private lives;The unmentionable odour of death Offends the September night.

Accurate scholarship canUnearth the whole offenceFrom Luther until nowThat has driven a culture mad,Find what occurred at Linz,What huge imago madeA psychopathic god:I and the public knowWhat all schoolchildren learn,Those to whom evil is doneDo evil in return.

Exiled Thucydides knewAll that a speech can sayAbout Democracy,And what dictators do,The elderly rubbish they talkTo an apathetic grave;Analysed all in his book,The enlightenment driven away,The habit-forming pain,Mismanagement and grief:We must suffer them all again.

Into this neutral airWhere blind skyscrapers use Their full height to proclaim The strength of Collective Man, Each language pours its vain Competitive excuse:But who can live for longIn an euphoric dream;Out of the mirror they stare, Imperialism's faceAnd the international wrong.

Faces along the barCling to their average day:The lights must never go out,The music must always play,All the conventions conspireTo make this fort assumeThe furniture of home;Lest we should see where we are, Lost in a haunted wood,Children afraid of the nightWho have never been happy or good.

The windiest militant trash Important Persons shoutIs not so crude as our wish: What mad Nijinsky wrote About DiaghilevIs true of the normal heart; For the error bred in the bone Of each woman and each man Craves what it cannot have, Not universal loveBut to be loved alone.

From the conservative darkInto the ethical lifeThe dense commuters come,Repeating their morning vow;'I will be true to the wife,I'll concentrate more on my work,'And helpless governors wakeTo resume their compulsory game: Who can release them now,Who can reach the dead,Who can speak for the dumb?

All I have is a voiceTo undo the folded lie,The romantic lie in the brainOf the sensual man-in-the-street And the lie of AuthorityWhose buildings grope the sky: There is no such thing as the State And no one exists alone;Hunger allows no choiceTo the citizen or the police;We must love one another or die.

Defenseless under the nightOur world in stupor lies;Yet, dotted everywhere,Ironic points of lightFlash out wherever the JustExchange their messages:May I, composed like themOf Eros and of dust,Beleaguered by the sameNegation and despair,Show an affirming flame.

the RigInt blog itself was down last night for about 2 hours...after the sane discussion on 9-11 truth movement infiltration got started up.

bingo?

and the first thing back up to read was the Tourettes driven ad hominem pointless attack by the disinfo man--which sort of begs the question if it's so unimportant as he claimed, why did he spend all that time posting to delegitimate it and attempting to impress us?...and why was the blog down for two hours in the meantime?

"Are you a material realist? Do you consider that the world is in reality pretty much like it is presented as being on the nightly news? If not where does the variation come in?"

First off, when did the nightly news start to define material realism, or anything other than the desire to sell advertising with a teeny tiny pinch of "the jounalistic duty to inform the people." But no, I'm not a material realist. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." The theory I'm working with right now is that body (matter), mind, and consciousness are three different types of reality which interact with each other, and that interaction is Reality. But hey, thats just a thought I'm exploring right now. I'm not claiming any universal scientific validity for it, or that its THE TRUTH.

Also, when did material realism become the baseline for any sort of variation to occur off of. Its certainly not scientifically necesary, science operates off of the philosphy of logical positivsm, not material realism. From my understanding, every major advance in physics in the 20th century contradicts material realism. So if anything, the question should be "are you a logical positivist, and if not where's the variation." But that may not be what you are asking, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, so the balls back in your court

"and the first thing back up to read was the Tourettes driven ad hominem pointless attack by the disinfo man--which sort of begs the question if it's so unimportant as he claimed, why did he spend all that time posting to delegitimate it and attempting to impress us?...and why was the blog down for two hours in the meantime?"

HaHaHaHaHa!

I control the internets.

This is exactly the kind of shit I was talking about. I get bored and post on RigInt's comments section like one weekend a quarter, and suddenly I'm controlling the message boards and trying to impress everyone...dude, I couldn't sleep, was burning some time by reading the comments section here, and holy shit, batman, felt the urge to comment...in the comments section...unfuckinbelievable...

"A slave is someone who sits down, and waits for someone to free them..."

This is what caught my eye in this long, LONG "open thread". How true it rings. It hurts, too. It hurts to realize that the thoughts racing in my own head are dominated by the question of WHO will lead the way, and that I am sitting down.

Just like everything else the government (man?) touches, it's tainted and more often than not, it backfires. Just the fact that this blog has a few interested parties (characters) is enough impetus for TPTB to control it as they do every square inch of the planet. There is no room for free speech, free expression or free association when in the milieu we find ourselves now.

Silverfox made some interesting points which I will have sublimated and Shrub actually looks to be a real person with US so to speak and Starroute and his critique on Meme' has pushed the juice a bit higher in the vacuum.

There are as Yeats called them "frustrators" and they may be from off this planet or at least in a different dimension.

Yes you are right, I perhaps should have asked if you are a logical positivist. While you are right that science has discredited material realism, still it drives the psyche's of most people and it shares its dualism with logical positivism.

Then you said,

"The theory I'm working with right now is that body (matter), mind, and consciousness are three different types of reality which interact with each other, and that interaction is Reality."

Good for you on the (later) qualifiers. In Dualism there are two fundamentally different aspects to reality that cannot interact. Still the world exists, go figure. The question that follows your theory is; Are the three types of reality made of the same basic stuff, or is it different stuff, as in Dualism.

Anyway, it is more pleasant to deal in ideas rather than looking for reasons to judge or belittle other people.

Don't know if this is a dead thread or not, but I figure that I'll continue here anyway.

"The question that follows your theory is; Are the three types of reality made of the same basic stuff, or is it different stuff, as in Dualism"

I don't see the three realities as actually being "made up" of anyhting. The idea of "things," comprised of other "things" (or a singular "thing") seems to be a limiting factor of using Indo-European languages. Its the illusion of reality as a noun, as opposed to the idea of reality as a process (or a verb, to continue the metaphor).

Instead, matter, mind, and consciousness are more like expressions of will/perception. Think of it like a room with three windows, peer into one and the room looks like stuff (matter), peer into another and the room looks like ideas (mind), peer into the third and the room looks like feelings/awareness (consciousness). There, of course, may be more windows, but as far as I can tell, humanity is limited to those three.

So the three different "realities" are more like three different processes. The penultimate Reality is the three(or more) processes interacting with each other. Body, or matter, seems to be so overwhelming simply because it has had more time to develop. If we limit ourselves to Earth and assume that mind arose with complex life, then mind just hasn't had time enough to develop to the maturity, and thus immediateness, of matter.

And I tend to lose people when I get into consciousness, mostly because my understanding and definition of it differs from the common understanding of it. So thats for another day...

"Its the illusion of reality as a noun, as opposed to the idea of reality as a process (or a verb, to continue the metaphor)."

I am right there with you on this sentiment, although I will admit to trouble actually seeing the stuff as process rather than as a thing.

My pretences hold that the process uses the same material throughout all of its expressions. So, for me anyway, it seems that matter is a more congealed form of mind, and mind is a more congealed form of spirit. Matter appears 'overwhelming' because it is gross and slow moving in its participation with process, rather than its developmental time.

So no, I cannot assume that mind arose with complex life. Life was complex long before any physical manifestation that we might recognize.

Whenever a feeling of aversion comes into the heart of a good soul,
it's not without significance.
Consider that intuitive wisdom to be a Divine attribute,
not a vain suspicion:
the light of the heart has apprehendedintuitively from the Universal Tablet. - Rumi