(16-08-2015 12:38 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote: I never got this new trend. To me it seems to be nothing but a problem and will do nothing but further the divide between Americans. I think that this motto is nothing but exclusionary. Do we as black people have problems with racial profiling with law enforcement? Sure. But I feel that continuing to fight this battle with riots, marching, etc will do nothing. Having the conversation on why this is being done will. Sitting in a room with people of the other side is the only way peace has came in war time(well that or complete annihilation). I just feel that all of those who fought for civil rights would have some type of problem with the way this is handled.

But I would be willing to deal with it had it not been for the backlash people are getting for merely say All Lives Matter. I still didn't understand why this was bad until I read a post from someone on facebook who happens to be "pro-black"

‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ does not mean that only black lives matter. It's a slogan created to counter the insidious notion that they are somehow less important than other lives. ‪#‎AllLivesMatter‬ is a counter to that statement implying that black people have never actually been treated any differently in this country than any other group of people, and therefore, drawing attention to issues that specifically affect them is unwarrented. It's true that most groups in America have faced discrimination and unfair treatment at some point in her history. Systemic racism is more American than apple pie. That does not, however, preclude black Americans from creating a slogan to represent a movement that is unique to their cause. BLM does not mean that white people don't matter or that police don't matter or that animals or the economy or foreign affairs don't matter. It simply means that, contrary to historically popular belief, black lives DO actually matter. Black people are citizens with every bit as much of a right to be here and to be represented as any other American, and it's time our laws, policies, media, and culture reflected that.

This....this is what is happening now. This is what the majority of my fellow black friends believe(over 200 likes). Pay attention to how ass backwards the first two sentences are. It's almost like they love to hate.

I'm sorry I had to put this out there too...black people are some of the most racist people I have met. We use slavery to justify it but it's there all the same. So when I see this shit it kind of doesn't surprise me. We sit here with the look of awe of why white people hate us mean while we aren't even attempting to have peace because every time we turn around we bring up slavery. Now I'm not excusing slavery(my great grandmother has told me plenty of stories that were passed down about the abuse, traumatizing stuff) but come on we have to move on at some freaking point. I think it goes back to something we use on here about getting blamed for you parents mistakes. I don't think it helps anything blaming people who weren't alive then for things they didn't do. So until we move on(don't see it happening) it's going to be the same battle.

The black people I know personally and would consider friends are not racist towards white people. I would likely have a different relationship with them if they were. The phrase "Black Lives Matter" is insulting to me. Reciting this slogan to me, as if I need to be told that black lives do in fact matter, sets me on the defensive because right out of the gate I'm being accused of racism. Only a racist would think that black lives really do not matter. It seems like silly circular argumentation in a way to say this, but assuming all white people are racist is itself racist. Some black people that never became more than acquaintances to me were of this view. Curiously, those individuals never had any white friends.

(16-08-2015 12:38 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote: I never got this new trend. To me it seems to be nothing but a problem and will do nothing but further the divide between Americans. I think that this motto is nothing but exclusionary. Do we as black people have problems with racial profiling with law enforcement? Sure. But I feel that continuing to fight this battle with riots, marching, etc will do nothing. Having the conversation on why this is being done will. Sitting in a room with people of the other side is the only way peace has came in war time(well that or complete annihilation). I just feel that all of those who fought for civil rights would have some type of problem with the way this is handled.

But I would be willing to deal with it had it not been for the backlash people are getting for merely say All Lives Matter. I still didn't understand why this was bad until I read a post from someone on facebook who happens to be "pro-black"

‪#‎BlackLivesMatter‬ does not mean that only black lives matter. It's a slogan created to counter the insidious notion that they are somehow less important than other lives. ‪#‎AllLivesMatter‬ is a counter to that statement implying that black people have never actually been treated any differently in this country than any other group of people, and therefore, drawing attention to issues that specifically affect them is unwarrented. It's true that most groups in America have faced discrimination and unfair treatment at some point in her history. Systemic racism is more American than apple pie. That does not, however, preclude black Americans from creating a slogan to represent a movement that is unique to their cause. BLM does not mean that white people don't matter or that police don't matter or that animals or the economy or foreign affairs don't matter. It simply means that, contrary to historically popular belief, black lives DO actually matter. Black people are citizens with every bit as much of a right to be here and to be represented as any other American, and it's time our laws, policies, media, and culture reflected that.

This....this is what is happening now. This is what the majority of my fellow black friends believe(over 200 likes). Pay attention to how ass backwards the first two sentences are. It's almost like they love to hate.

I'm sorry I had to put this out there too...black people are some of the most racist people I have met. We use slavery to justify it but it's there all the same. So when I see this shit it kind of doesn't surprise me. We sit here with the look of awe of why white people hate us mean while we aren't even attempting to have peace because every time we turn around we bring up slavery. Now I'm not excusing slavery(my great grandmother has told me plenty of stories that were passed down about the abuse, traumatizing stuff) but come on we have to move on at some freaking point. I think it goes back to something we use on here about getting blamed for you parents mistakes. I don't think it helps anything blaming people who weren't alive then for things they didn't do. So until we move on(don't see it happening) it's going to be the same battle.

The black people I know personally and would consider friends are not racist towards white people. I would likely have a different relationship with them if they were. The phrase "Black Lives Matter" is insulting to me. Reciting this slogan to me, as if I need to be told that black lives do in fact matter, sets me on the defensive because right out of the gate I'm being accused of racism. Only a racist would think that black lives really do not matter. It seems like silly circular argumentation in a way to say this, but assuming all white people are racist is itself racist. Some black people that never became more than acquaintances to me were of this view. Curiously, those individuals never had any white friends.

See this was the point I was looking to make. Just being stuck in the mind set that you even need to say black lives matter makes white people and other races feel as though we are excluding them from the conversation. I know black faces a lot more problems than whites with the cops but to keep acting in this mindset only hurts us as a people and slows up the process of peace. To me it feels as though we are so childish and can't help ourselves that we need approval that our lives matter. Shouldn't we know by now that our lives matters? And if we have known this for a time we should at least acknowledge that this slogan doesn't get a good conversation started.

On one hand you get racist whites(and blacks) that think only there side matters. On the other side you get whites that support it simply out of white guilt. See it never really sparks the conversation we need to have. How do we truly see each other and is it truly a progressive way that includes every race? You don't see native Americans doing this silly shit and they were practically wiped out.

My friend who's Navajo made the point that they already know they matter and they celebrate holidays they acknowledge to never forget where they came from but also to move on. And there lies our problem as blacks and whites...we have yet to have the mindset to move on. This slogan is no where near close to it.

(16-08-2015 11:27 PM)BryanS Wrote: The black people I know personally and would consider friends are not racist towards white people. I would likely have a different relationship with them if they were. The phrase "Black Lives Matter" is insulting to me. Reciting this slogan to me, as if I need to be told that black lives do in fact matter, sets me on the defensive because right out of the gate I'm being accused of racism. Only a racist would think that black lives really do not matter. It seems like silly circular argumentation in a way to say this, but assuming all white people are racist is itself racist. Some black people that never became more than acquaintances to me were of this view. Curiously, those individuals never had any white friends.

See this was the point I was looking to make. Just being stuck in the mind set that you even need to say black lives matter makes white people and other races feel as though we are excluding them from the conversation.

That is part of the problem that makes the slogan "Black lives matter" necessary. White feelings are not more important than black lives, and any conversation that really tackles the issue should make white people uncomfortable.

John Metta says it better than I do.

Quote:But here is the irony, here's the thing that all the angry Black people know, and no calmly debating White people want to admit: The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings.

They have pushed false narratives over cases of black people dying to cops too many times. If you look into these cases, it often turns out that the deceased were criminals that absolutely deserved the amount of force the authorities used. But the #blacklivesmatter crew just put their fingers in their ears and scream "nah, he was a good boy; he dindu nuffin'!" In the case of a black person committing suicide in jail, they'll even concoct a tin-foil-hat-worthy conspiracy theory to blame the police - like they did in the case of Sandra Bland's suicide.

There are actual victims of police negligence, and there are actual victims of police negligence from racism, but these #blacklivesmatter people bury them in favor of sensationalist propaganda.

(16-08-2015 03:49 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote: Basically the point boils down to this. The line of division isn't drawn by those proclaiming "black lives matter" but by those who proclaim "all lives matter." Because it is precisely that last slogan that the BLM crowd is advocating for, but is not the reality in the world we live in today. Today, black lives are not equivalent in the eyes of the generic american. People don't react every time a black man/woman/kid is killed in the same way as when a white man/woman/kid is. The media doesn't respond the same way.

So the BLM movement is really about saying that Black Lives Matter TOO and that black lives should be given equal treatment in society and in the media.

When people say "all lives matter" all they are doing is dismissing the BLM crowd. A black man/woman/kid is killed in an egregious way (Sandra Bland, Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, etc) and the BLM crowd proclaims that "Black Lives Matter" and then the ALM crowd dismisses it by saying that "All lives matter" when what they really mean is that they don't care about the black lives being taken.

Meanwhile, Zachary Hammond is shot in the back by a cop over pot, and the ALM crowd is suspiciously silent while the BLM crowd have been vocal about this unnecessary tragedy too. The ALM crowd doesn't really care about all lives, they care about specific lives. Specifically, people they consider worthy of being mourned and everyone else should be ignored.

Sandra Bland committed suicide, not killed by police. She really should not even be in the group. She chose to take her own life. Except for the Zach Hammond thing though I agree with you. Zach Hammond has not gotten nearly as much attention as the others.

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In a separate post from the above reply. I really like this photo and quote from a Chief of Police in Texas

Quote:I don’t want to put down law enforcement all together, but … there’s so many things that are happening these days that sometimes we can’t stand behind officers that do bad things. However, the community and the nation can’t condemn every single officer based on the actions of a few.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze

(17-08-2015 05:00 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: In the case of a black person committing suicide in jail, they'll even concoct a tin-foil-hat-worthy conspiracy theory to blame the police - like they did in the case of Sandra Bland's suicide.

Conspiracy theory or not regarding her death, a big part of the issue is how a routine traffic stop escalated to her being arrested. The trooper responsible was put on a desk for violating procedure. She shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Where does that fit in your analysis?

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

(17-08-2015 05:00 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: In the case of a black person committing suicide in jail, they'll even concoct a tin-foil-hat-worthy conspiracy theory to blame the police - like they did in the case of Sandra Bland's suicide.

Conspiracy theory or not regarding her death, a big part of the issue is how a routine traffic stop escalated to her being arrested. The trooper responsible was put on a desk for violating procedure. She shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Where does that fit in your analysis?

She ran a stop sign without signaling and then when the trooper came up behind her she changed lanes without signaling. Following that, the trooper power-tripped like a raging redneck asshole. She shouldn't have been in jail.

(17-08-2015 05:00 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: In the case of a black person committing suicide in jail, they'll even concoct a tin-foil-hat-worthy conspiracy theory to blame the police - like they did in the case of Sandra Bland's suicide.

Conspiracy theory or not regarding her death, a big part of the issue is how a routine traffic stop escalated to her being arrested. The trooper responsible was put on a desk for violating procedure. She shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Where does that fit in your analysis?

According to Andrea Roth an assistant law professor at University of California, Berkeley, failure to use a signal is technically an arrestable offense. Not that the officer should have arrested her but If that is true then he could legally arrest her after pulling her over. Once the officer asked her to get out of her car and she did not, she could be arrested for resisting a lawful order. Again, he did not have to be so physical with her but at that point, there was a valid reason to arrest her. The point is though it is being treated as if the cop killed her. Yeah he was an asshole and should not have arrested her but he did not kill her, she took her own life. This honestly all could have been avoided if Sandra put out her cigarette when she was asked.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze

(17-08-2015 05:32 AM)Can_of_Beans Wrote: Conspiracy theory or not regarding her death, a big part of the issue is how a routine traffic stop escalated to her being arrested. The trooper responsible was put on a desk for violating procedure. She shouldn't have been in jail in the first place. Where does that fit in your analysis?

According to Andrea Roth an assistant law professor at University of California, Berkeley, failure to use a signal is technically an arrestable offense. Not that the officer should have arrested her but If that is true then he could legally arrest her after pulling her over. Once the officer asked her to get out of her car and she did not, she could be arrested for resisting a lawful order. Again, he did not have to be so physical with her but at that point, there was a valid reason to arrest her. The point is though it is being treated as if the cop killed her. Yeah he was an asshole and should not have arrested her but he did not kill her, she took her own life. This honestly all could have been avoided if Sandra put out her cigarette when she was asked.

Yeah see people are so fucking stupid when it comes to laws. Does it feel good bowing down to some redneck cop who obviously has a problem with you for no reason? No. HELL NO. But she of all people should've known nothing good comes from arguing with these people, especially in this climate of black people and cops having problems. Her best bet was to take the ticket, pander to his little game and put the cigarette out and take his ass to court. Stop letting people's actions and words have such a huge affect on you ego.

If people can't understand that they are trying to get a rise out of us giving them an excuse to shoot or arrest us. Follow the damn law if you get harassed just keep calm and know your rights. It's the 21st century it won't go unnoticed for too long until someone says something. Then guess what when fox new or what ever other ass clown new stations tries to paint you as a bad guy...no leg to stand on. This is what MLK taught THIS is what starts a change. Not riots, fucking hashtags, or whining. Actually law abiding citizens fighting this with the law/constitution. I understand people are frustrated with the peaceful way of doing things but when we start fighting back in any other way we are no better than them.

(17-08-2015 06:06 AM)JDog554 Wrote: According to Andrea Roth an assistant law professor at University of California, Berkeley, failure to use a signal is technically an arrestable offense. Not that the officer should have arrested her but If that is true then he could legally arrest her after pulling her over. Once the officer asked her to get out of her car and she did not, she could be arrested for resisting a lawful order. Again, he did not have to be so physical with her but at that point, there was a valid reason to arrest her. The point is though it is being treated as if the cop killed her. Yeah he was an asshole and should not have arrested her but he did not kill her, she took her own life. This honestly all could have been avoided if Sandra put out her cigarette when she was asked.

Yeah see people are so fucking stupid when it comes to laws. Does it feel good bowing down to some redneck cop who obviously has a problem with you for no reason? No. HELL NO. But she of all people should've known nothing good comes from arguing with these people, especially in this climate of black people and cops having problems. Her best bet was to take the ticket, pander to his little game and put the cigarette out and take his ass to court. Stop letting people's actions and words have such a huge affect on you ego.

If people can't understand that they are trying to get a rise out of us giving them an excuse to shoot or arrest us. Follow the damn law if you get harassed just keep calm and know your rights. It's the 21st century it won't go unnoticed for too long until someone says something. Then guess what when fox new or what ever other ass clown new stations tries to paint you as a bad guy...no leg to stand on. This is what MLK taught THIS is what starts a change. Not riots, fucking hashtags, or whining. Actually law abiding citizens fighting this with the law/constitution. I understand people are frustrated with the peaceful way of doing things but when we start fighting back in any other way we are no better than them.

Protests and what not are fine but when it gets to the point where people generalize and fight racism with racism, its stupid. It's like fighting a fire with a flamethrower.

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze