Making zine spaces accessible - We Make Zines2015-03-31T20:53:00Zhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?commentId=2288844%3AComment%3A165378&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIt seems like for a small or…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-01-05:2288844:Comment:1674242011-01-05T20:01:30.926ZDan 10thingshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/Dan10things
<p>It seems like for a small or one off event, where even finding a space can be difficult, our expectations should be lower. We did one Seattle convention in a gallery up a flight of stairs and no one thought about it, but it sucked even for able-bodied folks hauling all your boxes up a long flight of stairs. Live and learn. And discussions like this are great for people thinking of doing their first event. Most public spaces - galleries, VFW or community halls, punk clubs, libraries, public…</p>
<p>It seems like for a small or one off event, where even finding a space can be difficult, our expectations should be lower. We did one Seattle convention in a gallery up a flight of stairs and no one thought about it, but it sucked even for able-bodied folks hauling all your boxes up a long flight of stairs. Live and learn. And discussions like this are great for people thinking of doing their first event. Most public spaces - galleries, VFW or community halls, punk clubs, libraries, public schools and rented halls will already be ADA accessible because they have to, which makes them a great option. There's really no excuse for a large established zine fair/conference to not think about these larger issues, I help put on a pinball and arcade show each year that draws 3,500 people, it's definitely something talked about and planned for. Although I think free childcare is pushing it in what expectations people should have when coming to a zine convention. Bearing children is your choice and parents should be responsible for making arrangements for their own children, being disabled isn't a choice and is totally different.</p> I agree with Dave R and also…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-01-05:2288844:Comment:1673742011-01-05T12:42:04.847ZThe East Village Inkyhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/TheEastVillageInky
<p>I agree with Dave R and also with the courtesy with which he expresses himself.</p>
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<p>I tabled at the NYC zine fest and a few days before, was approached by some others who had signed up to table asking that I join them in protesting the fest's lack of free childcare.</p>
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<p>Perhaps some of you who do not have children are not aware that this can be a big issue for parents ... or perhaps you do as I can think of several articles in fairly well circulated / high profile…</p>
<p>I agree with Dave R and also with the courtesy with which he expresses himself.</p>
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<p>I tabled at the NYC zine fest and a few days before, was approached by some others who had signed up to table asking that I join them in protesting the fest's lack of free childcare.</p>
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<p>Perhaps some of you who do not have children are not aware that this can be a big issue for parents ... or perhaps you do as I can think of several articles in fairly well circulated / high profile zines about the need to make sure people with little children feel welcome at activist spaces and events - which we can extend to zine spaces and events.</p>
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<p>I should say that my own kids are now old enough to rumble around a zine fair on their own and depending on the location, even take the subway home together if they're bored. And when littler, they were not the Yay!!! FREE CHILDCARE types ... they were more like, I want to stay with you and take the money, or go around and touch everything types.</p>
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<p>Anyway, I bring this up because of several reasons :</p>
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<p>1) Potential zine fest organizers are using this thread as a sounding board for what the public needs in order to have a good, safe, accessible, well-provided-for zine fest</p>
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<p>2) No one else has mentioned childcare</p>
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<p>and</p>
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<p>3) Although I believe in the righteousness of free childcare at zine fests, in this particular instance, I wished the request had been filed a lot earlier than a few days before and I was distressed by the rude, accusatory tone of some of those asking for it, not wanting to have that tone assigned to me by association. I reckoned that the organizers would be plenty stressed out anyway because the fest was but a few days away - loading the cannon with red hot terms like insensitivity and boycott and firing every couple of minutes from a variety of directions seemed unproductive and rude to me. Better a firm, polite, vigilant pressure that starts well before deadline.</p>
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<p>For those wondering how this specific story ends, at the zero hour, the wish for free childcare was accommodated. The provider was associated with one of those making the request. It did not get much business, though if it had been in place by the time the posters and ads were being drafted, perhaps it would have.</p> this makes me sad and mad. zi…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2011-01-05:2288844:Comment:1673292011-01-05T02:45:01.479ZBeth Mhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/BethMorgan
<p>this makes me sad and mad. zine spaces should be accessible indeed. accessible in all ways: for those with disabilities, blind, deaf, language barriers (at least get translators for common languages, or at least common languages in the area the fest is in), all different gender bathrooms, etc. (any other ways you can think of?)</p>
<p>I have no idea what to do about it since I'm pretty new to the community and haven't really been to any zine fests or anything yet, but I will remember to keep…</p>
<p>this makes me sad and mad. zine spaces should be accessible indeed. accessible in all ways: for those with disabilities, blind, deaf, language barriers (at least get translators for common languages, or at least common languages in the area the fest is in), all different gender bathrooms, etc. (any other ways you can think of?)</p>
<p>I have no idea what to do about it since I'm pretty new to the community and haven't really been to any zine fests or anything yet, but I will remember to keep all this in mind.</p>
<p>thanks for pointing it out, Erin.</p>
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<p>bumping this thread because this issue is important and relevant.</p> I'm really glad Erin started…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-18:2288844:Comment:1654112010-12-18T17:31:07.369ZFalse Start Distrohttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/Meredith
<p>I'm really glad Erin started this thread! Some friends and I are trying to get together an LA Zine Fest for next year (and by trying, I mean, we talk about it when we're drunk!), and one of the venues I had in mind is probably not wheelchair accessible, something that I stupidly didn't even think about until I read this thread. So that place is crossed off the list for sure now!</p>
<p><br/>So seriously, thanks for bringing this up. It's definitely something that needs to be talked about!</p>
<p>I'm really glad Erin started this thread! Some friends and I are trying to get together an LA Zine Fest for next year (and by trying, I mean, we talk about it when we're drunk!), and one of the venues I had in mind is probably not wheelchair accessible, something that I stupidly didn't even think about until I read this thread. So that place is crossed off the list for sure now!</p>
<p><br/>So seriously, thanks for bringing this up. It's definitely something that needs to be talked about!</p> I was tangentially involved w…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-18:2288844:Comment:1653952010-12-18T06:55:22.587ZDave Rochehttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/DaveRoche
<p>I was tangentially involved with planning one of the Portland Zine Symposiums, and by that I mean I really didn't do anything other than go to meetings, but I know people put a lot of time and energy into organizing these events. There are tons of things to think about and even important stuff can get neglected,especially if the organizers are new to it. While it's not that difficult to make sure rooms are wheelchair accessible, ASL interpreters are provided, and so on, I think anyone…</p>
<p>I was tangentially involved with planning one of the Portland Zine Symposiums, and by that I mean I really didn't do anything other than go to meetings, but I know people put a lot of time and energy into organizing these events. There are tons of things to think about and even important stuff can get neglected,especially if the organizers are new to it. While it's not that difficult to make sure rooms are wheelchair accessible, ASL interpreters are provided, and so on, I think anyone planning to attend who requires something like that should drop the organizers an e-mail so they can see to it. I know it's busted to have to constantly educate people about these things, but it also feels awful to organize something and realize you've inadvertently made it alienating to someone. I disagree with James, I think there is a zine community, however loose, and it's up to us to make it the community we want. One of the things that attracted me to zines, and I imagine a lot of other people, too, is how approachable everyone is, there isn't (or at least shouldn't be) any sort of hierarchy, there isn't the producer/consumer dichotomy of other media. I can't imagine any fest/zymposium organizers would totally disregard a request to make their event as accessible as possible.</p>
<p>To that end, I think this discussion is really helpful and I'm glad it's happening.</p> GOOD POINT! I CAN'T BELIEVE I…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-17:2288844:Comment:1653782010-12-17T21:17:03.188ZBree Adornhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/BreeChumley
<p>GOOD POINT! I CAN'T BELIEVE I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT! PEOPLE *DO* ENJOY BEING IN WHEELCHAIRS!</p>
<p>Thank you for your insight. Truly.<br></br> <cite>whatpeoplearethinking said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=3#2288844Comment165359"><div><p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where…</p>
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<p>GOOD POINT! I CAN'T BELIEVE I HADN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT! PEOPLE *DO* ENJOY BEING IN WHEELCHAIRS!</p>
<p>Thank you for your insight. Truly.<br/> <cite>whatpeoplearethinking said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=3#2288844Comment165359"><div><p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where at the end of the game a bunch of the players get up out of their chairs and walk around. They don't need them, they just like riding about on them.</p>
<p>I would say that a person who is poor due to reasons out of their control is worse off than a person who <em>chooses</em> to use a wheelchair.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Bree Adorn said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165330"><div>Comparing your lack of a budget for a hotel to someone having unavoidable physical restrictions is ridiculous.</div>
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</blockquote> and what you hope to gain fro…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-17:2288844:Comment:1653692010-12-17T13:27:21.409ZStephanoshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/aazine
<p>and what you hope to gain from trolling is...?<br></br> <br></br> <cite>whatpeoplearethinking said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?page=3&amp;commentId=2288844%3AComment%3A165359&amp;x=1#2288844Comment165359"><div><p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where at the end of the game a bunch of the players get up out of their…</p>
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<p>and what you hope to gain from trolling is...?<br/> <br/> <cite>whatpeoplearethinking said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?page=3&amp;commentId=2288844%3AComment%3A165359&amp;x=1#2288844Comment165359"><div><p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where at the end of the game a bunch of the players get up out of their chairs and walk around. They don't need them, they just like riding about on them.</p>
<p>I would say that a person who is poor due to reasons out of their control is worse off than a person who <em>chooses</em> to use a wheelchair.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Bree Adorn said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165330"><div>Comparing your lack of a budget for a hotel to someone having unavoidable physical restrictions is ridiculous.</div>
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</blockquote> You're making generalizations…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-17:2288844:Comment:1653592010-12-17T11:22:57.997Zwhatpeoplearethinkinghttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/whatpeoplearethinking
<p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where at the end of the game a bunch of the players get up out of their chairs and walk around. They don't need them, they just like riding about on them.</p>
<p>I would say that a person who is poor due to reasons out of their control is worse off than a person who <em>chooses</em> to use a wheelchair.</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Bree Adorn…</cite></p>
<p>You're making generalizations. Some people just <em>enjoy</em> getting about in wheelchairs. I have seen wheelchair basketball matches before where at the end of the game a bunch of the players get up out of their chairs and walk around. They don't need them, they just like riding about on them.</p>
<p>I would say that a person who is poor due to reasons out of their control is worse off than a person who <em>chooses</em> to use a wheelchair.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Bree Adorn said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165330"><div>Comparing your lack of a budget for a hotel to someone having unavoidable physical restrictions is ridiculous.</div>
</blockquote> All of the Portland Zine Symp…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-17:2288844:Comment:1653452010-12-17T05:00:47.294ZAlex Wrekkhttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/alexwrekk
<p>All of the Portland Zine Symposoiums (So far) have been at Portland State University. As a University they are required to have an accessible space. however, in 2002 we used a cafeteria that had a few risers that were unnavigable for some folks. This was brought to our attention at the event and we realized we had mad this mistake. Every year since we have made it a priority to have an accessible space.</p>
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<p>When it comes down to it it just makes sense to have public events in…</p>
<p>All of the Portland Zine Symposoiums (So far) have been at Portland State University. As a University they are required to have an accessible space. however, in 2002 we used a cafeteria that had a few risers that were unnavigable for some folks. This was brought to our attention at the event and we realized we had mad this mistake. Every year since we have made it a priority to have an accessible space.</p>
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<p>When it comes down to it it just makes sense to have public events in accessible spaces, even able bodied people can appreciate that when they encounter a temporary mishap like a busted ankle or something. I know I did.</p> I can speak for the Chicago Z…tag:wemakezines.ning.com,2010-12-17:2288844:Comment:1653372010-12-17T01:03:55.223Zramsey everydaypantshttp://wemakezines.ning.com/profile/ramseyeverydaypants
<p>I can speak for the Chicago Zine Fest by saying that last year, we had three different venues and one of them was not wheelchair accessible. It was our first year organizing the fest and we had no idea what we were doing. We had ten thousand questions and things to think about. We certainly didn't do everything right and we won't do everything right this year. I can honestly say it didn't even cross our mind in the beginning of planning to think about accessibility of our venues and that's…</p>
<p>I can speak for the Chicago Zine Fest by saying that last year, we had three different venues and one of them was not wheelchair accessible. It was our first year organizing the fest and we had no idea what we were doing. We had ten thousand questions and things to think about. We certainly didn't do everything right and we won't do everything right this year. I can honestly say it didn't even cross our mind in the beginning of planning to think about accessibility of our venues and that's because it's not something we're faced with every day. When we realized it, it was so obvious that we should have thought of it and made it a necessity for our venue choices that we felt very foolish about it. We did include on the website and flyers that the specific venue was not accessible.</p>
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<p>This year, it was a deal breaker when looking at venues. Of course there are a lot of things to think about and planning a zine fest is hard and a lot more work than people would realize. However, that doesn't mean you get a free pass when making important decisions like these. Of course we want to be as inclusive as possible. That's the responsibility you take on when putting on a public event, and it's the respect that the community you're a part of deserves. You're not making a fest for just you and your friends. You're making a fest for everyone. And chances are if you had a friend who needed wheelchair accessibility, you would take it a lot more seriously.</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>James N. Dawson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165334"><div><p>I think I brought up some very valid questions. I don't see anything wrong with someone urging wheelchair access, but just the tone that people who've failed to do that are insensitive, uncompassionate assholes. If Erin's organized her own fests with wheelchair access, that's great. Maybe she has some concrete, constructive advice on how to do that for those organizing larger fests.</p>
<p><br/>I hope the actual organizer's of these less-than-accessible" fests chime in. I'd like to hear their side in more detail. . Maybe they have some good excuses. Maybe they don't. Maybe both sides could work together through civil discussion. We'll never know unless we hear from them.</p>
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<p>You say you want a discussion. It seems to me your looking more for the "amen choir". I realize my directness can put crypto-authoritarian leftists off. I'm not in the habit of making all the right noises and spouting empty pc shibboleths.</p>
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<p>Anyway, I will "shut up", Bree. I'm not sure if there's much point at all in having any sort of substantial discussion on this forum, with the intolerant, hostile and narrow-minded climate that's so typical on it.</p>
<p><cite>Bree Adorn said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165330"><div><p>so James...</p>
<p>Just how difficult do you think it is for a organizer to let it be simply known that the event will or will not be accessible? Yes, it is totally reasonable for a zine fest organizer(s) to be aware and commit to accommodating as many people as possible. For starters, the more people you include in your event the larger the turn out! That not only benefits the people that can be included, but hell, THE PEOPLE ORGANIZING IT. Just how ignorant are you to the many types of wheel chairs there are? Would you be able to lift a 400 pound chair? Or the person in that chair that may have fears or physical restrictions to be lifted and tossed about by strangers? And have you done ANY research on the fact that Erin does indeed organize her own zine fest? It's in a place called New Jersey, not sure if you've heard of it. She's asking for accessibility acceptance at all venues possible, what the hell is so absurd about that? And if you don't think that asking for accessibility at ZINE events to be a ZINE community discussion, well, sorry dude, you're out of your damn element. Comparing your lack of a budget for a hotel to someone having unavoidable physical restrictions is ridiculous.</p>
<p>I can rightfully speak on behalf of people with half a mind or ounce of compassion to your response: shut up.</p>
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<p><br/><cite>Erin H said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://wemakezines.ning.com/forum/topics/making-zine-spaces-accessible?id=2288844%3ATopic%3A164910&amp;page=2#2288844Comment165321"><div><p>All I have to say is FUCK YOU. I don't even know what else to say. <br/> <br/></p>
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