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When did he use Force cuffs on Obi-Wan? When Obi-Wan was knocked out by two anonymous Death Watch soldiers in Season Two's "The Mandalore Plot," he was suspended upside-down in one of the mining compound's energy fields.

That's right. I could recall 100%, I just remember the means to hold him was glowing.

Nowhere in your incoherent ramblings did you come anywhere close to the answer. Thanks to you, everyone in this room is now stupider having heard you. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul. -Billy Madison-

You know, I'd put this episode among the best in the series' history. I can't post spoilers (out of white font, at least) until it seems more people have seen it, but I'm just sayin'...

Savage AND Satine die? Wow.
Sidious is a master with the blade. Those fight scenes were great; love how the Mando blade contrasts the glow of lightsabers.
Apparently it really takes NO training to operate a jetpack?
The Mandolarian "prison" and landing dock have the WORST SECURITY EVER. That's sad.

From the small details like bringing back Korkie and the cadets (so is Korkie Bo-Katan's son, or maybe just nephew?), the return (and destruction) of the Twilight, and tying in episodes from Seasons Two, Three, and Four, to the big details like the most inventive, grand, well-choreographed battles we have ever seen on this show (pretty much nonstop), it was just amazing. I was genuinely saddened by the two big deaths - they were handled incredibly effectively. The music finally went full-on with the Imperial March and Palpatine's theme and it was glorious.

It's sad that this was Ian Abercrombie's final performance on the series (or at least close to it), but holy crap, what an episode to end on. I do find it a little odd that they essentially revealed that Palpatine and Sidious were the same person (the same scene also introduced the red Royal Guards to the series if I'm not mistaken). It makes sense that Sidious would use two blades since we know from ROTS that he likely has at least two copies of his saber (unless he hired a guy to find the one that Mace caused to fall out the window).

The Darth Sidious elements of this episode should have felt like deus ex machina, yet they gave real character motivations and actions to Maul and Sidious (sorry Savage, you got the short end of the saber) so it instead held up quite well and made for exciting action - provided you can swallow Revenge of the Sith's style of Sidious action.

The stuff with Obi-Wan though, while it wasn't hard to watch, I felt like it delivered a very ineffective character with no competent resources. Sure there were scenes aping the movies as "homage", but ultimately The Clone Wars once again presents the Jedi, and especially Kenobi, as bumbling and quick to action but poor to thinking, not to mention overly concerned with personal connections despite that being against a core tenet of the order. Considering Kenobi's story is supposed to be the episode's main plotline, I don't see a lot of folks talking about that aspect - I mean, Obi-Wan's initial plan was really stupid and simple, but it was meant to be the driving force of this episode.

At least Saltine got her crackers quick and without hesitation, even if the Maul boys then left Obi-Wan covered in gadgety armor to use the same Force tricks they themselves used to escape the same jail they were sending him to. The second she mentioned her sister though it became obvious what was going down, and I couldn't be happier that Duchess Mopeyface is dead and her sister now has a rocketpack fueled with vengeance for that too (she's still honked about Pre Viszla, I'm sure), if we don't see Bo-Katan as leader of Mandalore next time we visit the system I'll be disappointed.

I would have liked to have seen Maul slobber with rage at Obi-Wan upon first viewing though, that felt like a lost moment since Maul from the beginning of the season (and end of last season) was still pretty darn cheesed off at his bisect-er.

Unfortunately this episode had to be dedicated to the memory of Ian Abercrombie, the show's voice of Chancellor Palpatine, because he passed away a year ago not long after recording this episode. That said, Seinfeld's Mr. Pitt cemented his place as my second-favorite Palpatine with this episode's fine work, still trailing Ian McDiarmid's performance in ROTJ but outshining Old Lady Monkey Eyes, ROTS's Darth Sidious, and Special Edition ESB Palpatine and his clumsy dialogue of doom.

IGN's review pointed out how silly Korkie and his constant "auntie!" stuff was at the beginning rescue scene, totally right on the money, but also it reminded me of something else more compelling... Korkie was Satine's AND Bo-Katan's nephew, apparently SW.com is saying not her son, so did Satine also have a brother? I like the idea of Bo-Katan now angry about her mentor, her sister, and her nephew being splashed (although it would have been better had it been her son).

Overall, the stuff with Palpatine was very strong even if Savage was underused and dispatched, Maul turned into a punk and now will be toyed with in some way. Bo-Katan bringing the fight to her former comrades was pretty good. The stuff with Obi-Wan had a few solid moments (piloting the ailing Twilight to the landing platform, disguising as Rako Hardeen, and having to watch Satine get run through) but largely bumbled through what was supposed to be the A-plot. And there's the whole Korkie thing which was... well, not great, I mean, why didn't they put Satine on a speeder bike instead of a slower, easier-to-hit car? Oh, because the plot wouldn't have been as quick to tell.

Originally Posted by Darth Metalmute

I was surprised that i really liked this episode even if it did include Maul. There was one super-huge, drive a star destroyer sized hole in the plot though. Mandalorian Warriors are supposed to be intelligent, correct? Then why did Pre stick two known Jedi/Sith into a glass jail cell? It's not like he hasn't seen Jedi in action, in fact he captured Obi-Wan and used those force cuffs...

It was pretty clumsy, but to be fair, Maul was about to do the exact same thing with Obi-Wan in this episode. I suppose one could argue that no Force user had ever pulled a feat like that before, the Sith were an underground organization for the last thousand years so their abilities wouldn't be well-known. But yeah, that whole thing could have been avoided with metal bars on the cell. On the other hand, maybe the writers were just too lazy making the walls smash open so easily, we've never seen a Force user break open a starship's transparasteel windows before this, why wouldn't a jail cell be made of that?

Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL

This guy showed up in the preview back in August and he was mentioned somewhere on this site, if not necessarily in this thread, I think. Anyway, the Maul-looking armor makes sense if the Mandalorians want to emulate or look up to their leader (which, isn't that an element from the comics with the leader being called "Mandalore"?), so it's not out of the realm of possibility that they would want to look like him or pay respect to him - it's also not out of the realm of possibility that Maul would be vain enough to make them do it. It IS pretty fanboy servicey, but I'm a fanboy, so there ya go.

I bet the painting of young Ani won't be that obvious, but I don't think it's any worse than Plo Koon having a picture of himself and the words "Plo's Bros" written on his gunships, or any of the other nose art (which they unfortunately haven't had much of lately).

It was seriously fan-servicey, and then it was only that 1 guy. It's corny, but I won't say it was bad beyond that. Still, c'mon, it was corny and fanwanky.

You were right on the money, I freeze-framed the nose art and STILL couldn't make anything out. I liked watching the Twilight all smoky and screwed up, but watching it blow up was a bummer.

Originally Posted by El Chuxter

Oh, how I so want to respond to this comment, but I'll behave.

Why? What am I missing there?

Originally Posted by Bel-Cam Jos

You know, I'd put this episode among the best in the series' history. I can't post spoilers (out of white font, at least) until it seems more people have seen it, but I'm just sayin'...

Savage AND Satine die? Wow.
Sidious is a master with the blade. Those fight scenes were great; love how the Mando blade contrasts the glow of lightsabers.
Apparently it really takes NO training to operate a jetpack?
The Mandolarian "prison" and landing dock have the WORST SECURITY EVER. That's sad.

Again, a great show IMO.

Spoilers my aunt satine. It aired, the end, spoilers are for pre-air only IMO - if you don't want to be spoiled after it airs, don't read the thread until you watch the episode.

The blade Pre Viszla used and ended up in Maul's hands is a "darksaber", it originally was going to be a vibro-blade but Lucas shot that down, said no physical object can deflect a lightsaber, so it ok'ed the change to making it a darksaber.

If you look again, when Obi-Wan takes off he's not as sure-footed as the mandalorians, he zigs a little before flying away.

Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL

Wow. Quite simply: Best. Episode. Ever.

From the small details like bringing back Korkie and the cadets (so is Korkie Bo-Katan's son, or maybe just nephew?), the return (and destruction) of the Twilight, and tying in episodes from Seasons Two, Three, and Four, to the big details like the most inventive, grand, well-choreographed battles we have ever seen on this show (pretty much nonstop), it was just amazing. I was genuinely saddened by the two big deaths - they were handled incredibly effectively. The music finally went full-on with the Imperial March and Palpatine's theme and it was glorious.

It's sad that this was Ian Abercrombie's final performance on the series (or at least close to it), but holy crap, what an episode to end on. I do find it a little odd that they essentially revealed that Palpatine and Sidious were the same person (the same scene also introduced the red Royal Guards to the series if I'm not mistaken). It makes sense that Sidious would use two blades since we know from ROTS that he likely has at least two copies of his saber (unless he hired a guy to find the one that Mace caused to fall out the window).

Now I'm excited to see what use Sidious has for Maul.

I thought the same thing about Korkie being Bo-Katan's son, Obi-Wan acted surprised to learn that Satine had a sister, so either he doesn't know her very well or Satine only has the one sister and she's a secret. That said, I'm told the commentary on the episode says that Korkie is not Bo-Katan's son, so I can only reasonably assume that Satine and Bo-Katan have a brother who is Korkie's father.

Best episode ever? C'mon, it was good but it wasn't better than Rookies, Landing at Point Rain, Lair of Grievous, Brain Invaders, The Zillo Beast, or Ambush. I mean, it had Korkie who sucks and he's blathering on and on about "auntie" for the first few minutes constantly, and Obi-Wan's big plan was a terrible and simple and failed miserably and had emotional attachments driving his actions, and Obi-Wan in general in this episode really didn't do much of anything and didn't show much in the way of resources or forward-thinking. I'm not saying it was bad, just that I'm not sure that you'll still feel this was the "best evah!" after a few days away from it. Top tier? Maybe. Best ever? I'm doubtful, auntie.

Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

"In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"

The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

Well at least I can see why I got the response from JT that I got out on the main article for this:

"I don't like this telling people what they should or shouldn't think. It was a good episode but it wasn't without its faults, unless you're a really big fan of Korkie, the nephew of Duchess Satine."

Your post (above) really seems like an attempt to influence the majority into thinking that this episode wasn't as good as we think. Thus, telling us what we should or shouldn't think. You say you don't like that but it looks to me that is exactly what you're doing.

Last edited by Maerj2000; 02-03-2013 at 07:49 PM.
Reason: Cause I felt like it.

Clarification: when I said the darksaber was originally meant to be a vibro-blade but Lucas said it had to be changed, they changed the whole design not just the name.

Originally Posted by El Chuxter

Damn, JT, you're going to make me spell it out and misbehave?

Oh, all right....

"That's pretty bad, because everything this show has done has been bad fanfic."

Leaving the thread again now.

Not as obvious as you thought, I guess you haven't been vocal enough about it to create that seed in my mind. Plus, I wouldn't have thought it obvious since the entirety of the prequels... wait, I'll take your lead and not say it.

Originally Posted by Maerj2000

Well at least I can see why I got the response from JT that I got out on the main article for this:

"I don't like this telling people what they should or shouldn't think. It was a good episode but it wasn't without its faults, unless you're a really big fan of Korkie, the nephew of Duchess Satine."

Your post (above) really seems like an attempt to influence the majority into thinking that this episode wasn't as good as we think. Thus, telling us what we should or shouldn't think. You say you don't like that but it looks to me that is exactly what you're doing.

Wow, as I said in the news comment thread, super defensive there.

You are inferring motive that's not intended or implied, and your assumption of motives is especially off-base since the majority of the post was written yesterday in the early afternoon over on TV.com while waiting to get together with my sister for her birthday, long before I had read - or most of you had posted - the comments in this thread and the SSG news.

I don't give a care what "the majority" thinks of the episode even a little nor do I want to change that, I'm confident in my assessment and stating that as such. The only thing that could be misconstrued otherwise is the thing I said to JabbaJohn when I asked if his cheerleading response of "best evah!" might have been slightly overstating things in HIS opinion when seen through the lens of time and compared to other top-tier episodes (of which I freely admitted that this could be included as one). Perhaps you might read it again without a chip on your shoulder.

Darth Vader is becoming the Mickey Mouse of Star Wars.

"In Brooklyn, a castle, is where dwell I"

The use of a lightsaber does not make one a Jedi, it is the ability to not use it.

The stuff with Obi-Wan though, while it wasn't hard to watch, I felt like it delivered a very ineffective character with no competent resources. Sure there were scenes aping the movies as "homage", but ultimately The Clone Wars once again presents the Jedi, and especially Kenobi, as bumbling and quick to action but poor to thinking, not to mention overly concerned with personal connections despite that being against a core tenet of the order. Considering Kenobi's story is supposed to be the episode's main plotline, I don't see a lot of folks talking about that aspect - I mean, Obi-Wan's initial plan was really stupid and simple, but it was meant to be the driving force of this episode.

I liked the Obi-Wan aspects, but I think it's mostly that the Sidious scenes were just so mind-blowing that they overpowered everything else. Obi-Wan didn't have much to do after Satine was killed other than to escape and try not to get killed himself, but he can still be instrumental in deciding the fate of Mandalore if/when he reports to the Republic. This episode was more about Obi-Wan's emotional state and him remaining calm and not focusing on his anger since he knows that's what Maul is really trying to do here. I really liked the dialogue between Obi-Wan and Maul on the Dark Side and how Obi-Wan knows Maul didn't actually choose it. Technically Obi-Wan didn't choose to become a Jedi, either, but he still makes the choice to use his power for good.

Originally Posted by JediTricks

At least Saltine got her crackers quick and without hesitation, even if the Maul boys then left Obi-Wan covered in gadgety armor to use the same Force tricks they themselves used to escape the same jail they were sending him to. The second she mentioned her sister though it became obvious what was going down, and I couldn't be happier that Duchess Mopeyface is dead and her sister now has a rocketpack fueled with vengeance for that too (she's still honked about Pre Viszla, I'm sure), if we don't see Bo-Katan as leader of Mandalore next time we visit the system I'll be disappointed.

In the commentary, Filoni said that Lucas wanted to start killing off some of the characters in this show who aren't in the films. We lost Pre Vizsla, Satine, and Savage in this arc, and yet now we have two characters whose fates we now don't know - Maul and Bo-Katan. So if they're trying to wind down, they're only making it more difficult for themselves.

Originally Posted by JediTricks

I would have liked to have seen Maul slobber with rage at Obi-Wan upon first viewing though, that felt like a lost moment since Maul from the beginning of the season (and end of last season) was still pretty darn cheesed off at his bisect-er.

This time, Maul was the one in charge - he didn't yet have this support or power in "Revival." So he was probably on a power trip and very pleased to see Obi-Wan in a dire situation. As Maul said in "Revenge" and reiterated here, he doesn't merely want to kill Obi-Wan - he wants to see him suffer as much as he suffered after getting defeated on Naboo. This was finally the perfect opportunity, or so Maul thought, to make Obi-Wan suffer.

Originally Posted by JediTricks

Unfortunately this episode had to be dedicated to the memory of Ian Abercrombie, the show's voice of Chancellor Palpatine, because he passed away a year ago not long after recording this episode. That said, Seinfeld's Mr. Pitt cemented his place as my second-favorite Palpatine with this episode's fine work, still trailing Ian McDiarmid's performance in ROTJ but outshining Old Lady Monkey Eyes, ROTS's Darth Sidious, and Special Edition ESB Palpatine and his clumsy dialogue of doom.

Whoever fills in is going to have a lot to live up to. Sam Witwer does a pretty good evil Emperor in TFU, but I don't know how successful he would be as day-to-day politician Palpatine.

Originally Posted by JediTricks

I thought the same thing about Korkie being Bo-Katan's son, Obi-Wan acted surprised to learn that Satine had a sister, so either he doesn't know her very well or Satine only has the one sister and she's a secret. That said, I'm told the commentary on the episode says that Korkie is not Bo-Katan's son, so I can only reasonably assume that Satine and Bo-Katan have a brother who is Korkie's father.

The Encyclopedia on the official site says that Bo-Katan is Korkie's aunt, and gives "Kryze" as both of their last names, so you're probably right that Satine and Bo-Katan have a brother (unless last names are passed down maternally on Mandalore or something).

Originally Posted by JediTricks

Best episode ever? C'mon, it was good but it wasn't better than Rookies, Landing at Point Rain, Lair of Grievous, Brain Invaders, The Zillo Beast, or Ambush. I mean, it had Korkie who sucks and he's blathering on and on about "auntie" for the first few minutes constantly, and Obi-Wan's big plan was a terrible and simple and failed miserably and had emotional attachments driving his actions, and Obi-Wan in general in this episode really didn't do much of anything and didn't show much in the way of resources or forward-thinking. I'm not saying it was bad, just that I'm not sure that you'll still feel this was the "best evah!" after a few days away from it. Top tier? Maybe. Best ever? I'm doubtful, auntie.

I understand what you're saying, as I posted shortly after my first (and so far only) viewing. That's probably part of it - and coming off the D-Squad arc probably helps bump it up in my mind as well.

Just looking over the list of episodes for comparison's sake, here are three that stand out to me as my favorites from each season:
Season One: Rookies, Trespass, Innocents of Ryloth
Season Two: Landing at Point Rain, Bounty Hunters, Lethal Trackdown
Season Three: Monster, Overlords, Wookiee Hunt
Season Four: The General, Carnage of Krell, Bounty
Season Five: A Necessary Bond, Shades of Reason, The Lawless

Some episodes may have done certain aspects better, but I still think "The Lawless" is tops in terms of inventive, well-thought-out action set pieces (the action "Landing on Point Rain" was impressively huge but didn't do much beyond that), emotional moments (of which there are many big ones in the episodes I listed), animation (seriously, compare the facial movements and fluidity of action in this episode to anything from the first few seasons and the difference is stunning), and giving immensely satisfying payoff from storylines that started years ago, tying the series together to make it feel like a whole as opposed to a collection of random episodes, which is of increasing importance to me as the series continues. You're only focusing on the story, which is obviously important, but it's also important to note the technological advancements the show has made since it's continually pushing the envelope for TV animation and not being recognized for doing so. "Best" is subjective and my personal preference can change, but I can say for certain that this was the most thrilling viewing experience I've ever had watching this show.