1. It's pretty unlikely I managed to fake 3 nights of results AND manage to kill N2/N3.2. I used an action N3 (yes I could have faked it but how would I possibly know) and had someone you think is town cop me and show that I'm town. So I'm supposedly full godfather yet bessie is part godfather?3. As I mentioned, with only two scum, one scum supported, and seven town with quite a few powers, Regina's role has to be quite strong. OR this is just flavor text and you're actually dealing with Regina and Peter. I guess it's also possible that Regina isn't in the game and that was just a distraction, but I'm not going down that rabbit hole.Unfortunately I can completely see how it would make sense for me to be Regina, UNLESS scum is just using a safeclaim, knowing that Henry isn't in game on purpose. Mods have done that in the past.

My suspicion is that we have Bessie as an SK, and Ben as Regina. Actually I just realized - why are we assuming that Bessie isn't lying? She claims to have targeted me... with an unblockable kill. Does that not strike you as strange / unlikely? It's actually quite likely that Bessie killed SDK and is somehow pinning it on me. Unless "Henry" has some redirecting power.

I'm still re-reading today. I'm fine with being lynched if we truly think there's only regina left, but I'm worried that Regina+SK or something similar will mean us losing the game. I'm honestly a bit lost and will need to spend some time thinking over this. Haven't been paying as much attention as I would have liked. Thankfully still have a few days.

I do want to step away for a second and think - would it be possible that either of Charming / Snow are actually scum? We've had masons where one person in the group is a traitor. Is that possible at all? Because that would be really frustrating to lose on that kind of technicality. Or maybe either of them is being controlled by Regina if there is such a power, as Ben mentioned?

If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

Bessie's claims make the least sense, as I mentioned last post. I prefer to lynch her unless she comes with a really good explanation of what happened.

I've considered Dr Ug being scum, it's possible mechanically speaking but it makes less sense than Ben being scum as far as flavour is concerned. And it makes less than anyone else being scum as far as player scumminess is concerned. I think it's a possibility, but one of the least likely ones.

I’ll be working on this today. I hope to find something to add, but I feel like I already threw out everything that I’m thinking.

First of all, observations on the setup (I’m going to use the word “know” for things with reasonable evidence). We know Rumplestiltskin had a partner (he was Mafia which implies a team). We know Regina is in the game (Madge reveal, Ben’s role PM). We assume Regina is some type of scum (source material flavor, Madge’s role reveal, Ben’s role PM).

Scum Team Guess: Rumplestiltskin (Mafia), Regina (Mafia), Magic Mirror (Regina Supporter, full Mafia if she finds Regina). Shared factional kill and a lot of powers. Maybe possible to use a power and a kill on the same night (because town is so overpowered).

Alternate Scum Team Guess: Rumplestiltskin + Someone Else (Mafia together since beginning of game). Regina + Magic Mirror (second non-town group that must locate each other).

No way: Five non-town since the beginning of the game. Even with the claimed bulletproof/resurrection powers, this just seems like too much.

Dr Ug, as the most experienced mod, can I have your opinion on the above?

Based on maximum four non-town, I don’t see any way that Lawrencelot and Dr Ug can be a scum team together, because there’s no way to fit them into a reasonable setup. I just reread Lawrencelot and JudeMorrigan/Dr Ug and I think that they have been working together (they claimed Masons) since the beginning of the game; there’s not a lot of interaction between them. Point is that I don’t think one was recruited by the other. Can one of Prince Charming or Snow White being scum or controlled by scum? Maybe, but at least not since the beginning because I think Lawrencelot and Dr Ug are too experienced of players to not figure it out.

To reply to Lawrencelot’s no lynch suggestion, I think we need to lynch today. There is a possibility we are at 3-2 or 3-1-1. For no lynch to work we would probably need Lawrencelot’s double vote tomorrow. Lawrencelot, do you have any way of knowing if you still have your one-shot NK immunity? You may have been the NK target N1 or N3 (we still don’t know who killed SDK). Or did the NK immunity come from Emma’s death (still possible N3 target)? Pre post edit: Don't answer this in thread. I just realized that scum shouldn't have this information. But think about it.

Lawrencelot, would you care to comment the part in my previous post where you claim to not know where you got your double vote, but later claim it was from Emma?

Ben, please reply to my previous post.

Ninja’d by Lawrencelot.

I need to go out for a few hours but I’ll be back with more later, and I will reply to Lawrencelot and dimochka’s posts.

Sorry Dr Ug, I asked you a question in my previous post and it seems like you already gave your updated opinion on the setup here, and I missed it.

Dr Ug wrote:So either we have a single mafia member (being Regina), or we have an independent Regina with one other mafia member left.

So from my point of view, Ben or dimochka or both must be scum. I’ll start with Ben.

Theory: Ben is Regina (if lone remaining scum) or Other Scum (if two remaining scum, because Regina is in the game from mod flavor), I’ll just use Peter Pan for convenience and because the players with flavor knowledge think Peter Pan could be in the game. It’s possible that either Regina or Peter Pan might know that Henry is not in the game (from role PM flavor) so Ben could safely make this claim (as I said before, it’s a rather bold false claim to pull out of the air). If Ben is scum, then the SDK kill makes sense, because SDK was leaning heavily on him and would not let up (on D3 SDK was still pushing Ben on D1 content, and would probably keep the heat up on D4). If Ben is scum, his cop claim on dimochka makes sense. If Ben was town I think he would have targeted SDK (because he was pressured by SDK), or Lawrencelot (because Lawrencelot was his scummiest read at the end of D3), or even bessie (because she claimed werewolf with a kill). Targeting dimochka makes the least sense for town!Ben.

I was thinking about this, and I think that it is a valid theory, especially since we have a double voter. I reviewed the votes, and didn’t find anywhere where someone’s vote wasn’t counted. So it’s possible Lawrencelot killed Emma and stole her heart, and that’s why he has a double vote. But I’m pretty solid on Lawrencelot as town both because of my read and for gameplay reasons outlined in my previous post.

SDK wrote:Should I just accept that you'll never fully answer my questions, Ben?

BenM16 wrote:I unvoted Madge while I was waiting for your response SDK.

Okay. Why? Were you planning on voting her again?

Repeat: Did you believe her claim at the time?

What response from me would have caused you to vote again, or to keep the unvote?

BenM16 wrote:SDK: Yes I would lean to believing her claim. If you had said no that was not your character I would have revoted Madge, and then if she was a town role cop then we could have voted you. If you agreed as you did in a way then unless she was indie or maf name cop (which I didn't thin she was) I would have stayed with my unvote.

Ben, what are you trying to say in this response to SDK? SDK confirmed the name cop so you believed Madge was town? That’s why you didn’t revote? What would your conclusion be if SDK denied being Granny? If SDK said “No I’m not Granny” would you have revoted Madge? Why is SDK clear in both these scenarios?

And answer my question I posted here and reminded you of here and here.

Actually, I really want an answer to that question. I think I will post it again to make sure you don’t overlook it.

bessie wrote:

BenM16 wrote:3. Dr Ug is a really really good maf. (Unlikely)

Why is this unlikely? I think this a good possibility.

I’m still working on my read of dimochka, and on my response for Lawrencelot. More tonight (hopefully).

Here’s some more analysis. I’m trying to fit it between all the other things I have to do this weekend, and my husband has a gig in a few hours.

This is from Ben’s last post on D3.

BenM16 wrote:I never said everyone else is clear, just said Lawrencelot looks the least clear.

How did you go from Lawrencelot as most suspicious to Lawrencelot must be town because of his power (which was revealed before you made the above comment)?

BenM16 wrote:Lawrencelot is Town, plain and simple (due to his double vote which would never be given to maf by mod)

Now to my analysis of dimochka. I already posted a few ideas on why dimochka could be Regina here on D3.

bessie wrote:dimochka – I don’t like his defense of Madge in his final D2 post. I’m actually wondering if dimochka is Regina and he found her breadcrumb and figured out her role.

Madge wrote:From the list it looks like Zelena is definitely a bad guy, and Mr Gold too, and Regina's description does not reflect well on her towniness.

I’m still pondering dimochka’s D3 post. It’s a long post but without many player reads. I agree that it’s very unlikely we have five anti-town characters in this game. We know Rumplestiltskin, Magic Mirror, and Regina are in the game. Based on your flavor knowledge, do you really think Granny is the fourth anti-town?

And some general thoughts on dimochka’s scummy behavior here, also from D3. I won’t quote because it’s a bit long.

Why would it be difficult to fake N1-N3 results when you didn’t claim your results until D4? You had nine pages of content to help you with that.

My analysis of dimochka has stalled a bit because I’m in a hurry this morning and also because as I reread the thread, I keep finding examples of contradictory behavior in Ben’s posts.

Lawrencelot, I’m still pondering what happened with my kill. I don’t think we have a redirector. I think Madge was the redirector as I explained here.

bessie wrote:bessie’s WAG (wild ass guess): SDK was redirected, but it was by Madge. She was a Mirror. My guess is that SDK tracked her N1 and got a result of tracking her to her own house and a result of werewolf, and he believed she was Red. Reminder: SPACKlick pointed out a strange lie detector claim by Madge that she didn’t have control over a kill, and Lawrencelot thought Madge might be Red too. Madge claimed she targeted SDK. It was after her claim that SDK changed his mind on Madge and said she lied, I think because his result didn’t match her claim. That’s when he claimed to have been redirected.

My current theory is that SDK was the mafia kill. My kill didn’t happen because I was blocked or because SDK somehow interfered with it.

Your quote from my last post, was me simply defending myself. Notice the "said," as it was what I said previously.I thought he was suspicious, yes, but then he proved he had a double vote, which would never be given to maf, quite unlikely.I CAN CLEAR MYSELF. SirG SAID THAT THIS GAME IS BASED ON CHARACTERS ON SEASON 1 ONLY, QUITE CLEARLY. PETER PAN DOESN'T COME IN UNTIL SEASON 3.SDK is not clear in both scenarios. Madge and SDK were my two scum reads, and so I wanted to wait to see their reactions to each other.6 players left. SDK had been acting a whole lot better near the end of the last day. Lawrencelot was clear due to double vote. Dr. Ug was my strongest town read. You had claimed miller. The only person I didn't really have any reads for was dim. Dr. Ug/ Jude has been playing pretty townie, plus he and lawrencelot cleared each other.

BenM16 was Henry, Town Universal Backup (gained Emma’s powers), immune to having his heart ripped out.After the mysterious disappearance of Henry, Regina became enraged and revealed her true self. “You!” she said, pointing at Snow White. “This is all your fault! You took away my son, and now you will pay!”“It wasn’t me!” Snow White cried. “I have no idea what happened to him.”“I don’t believe you. So now I’ll make you suffer. First I’ll kill your best friend,” Regina said. Then she reached into her purse, pulled out a heart, and crushed it, causing Red to die instantly.“And then I’ll rip out your heart,” she said, as she proceeded to do just that.“And then I’ll force you to kill your precious prince.”Prince Charming watched in horror as Snow White took out her bow and arrow and shot him in the chest.bessie died on night 4. She was Red, Town Werewolf (bulletproof vigilante miller on night 3).Lawrencelot was lynched at the beginning of day 5. He was Prince Charming, Town Mason; if both masons vote for the same player, their two votes combined count as three.Dr Ug’s vote was under mafia control at the end of the game. He was Snow White, Town Mason.dimochka was Regina, Mafia, able to rip out a player’s heart instead of killing, godfather any night she neither kills nor rips out a heart.

Game Over, Mafia and Magic Mirror win.

In case anyone was wondering, mafia almost certainly would have won even without the modkill, unless Dr Ug had switched his vote to dim before dim had a chance to post, it just would have taken longer.

In case anyone wanted to know the details of the roles, here are all the role PMs:

Spoiler:

dimochkaYou are Regina, Mafia. You want Snow White and all in her kingdom to suffer at your hand for what she did to you, and even your love for your adopted son Henry won't stop you. However, for Henry’s sake you have been trying to be good, and so you can be mistaken for a townsperson when you are not actively killing.You win if all non-mafia are dead.Your mafia partner is Vytron (Rumplestiltskin). You may communicate privately with your partner before the game begins and during the nights (please copy the mod on all PMs).The mafia team possesses a factional kill. You will carry out that kill on even-numbered nights (all nights if your partner is dead), unless you choose to withhold it. When it is your turn to carry out the kill, you may instead choose to rip out a player’s heart, allowing you to control their vote and the target of their night action for the remainder of the game. You may only control one player at a time; if you rip out a second player’s heart, the first one will die.On any night on which you do not carry out the kill or rip out a player’s heart, you appear town-aligned to all cop investigations.

Vytron You are Rumplestiltskin, Mafia. You are the Dark One, and as such you possess substantial magical powers; you would do anything to avoid losing these powers, even killing everyone in town.You win if all non-mafia are dead.Your mafia partner is dimochka (Regina). You may communicate privately with your partner before the game begins and during the nights (please copy the mod on all PMs).The mafia team possesses a factional kill. You will carry out that kill on odd-numbered nights (all nights if your partner is dead), unless you choose to withhold it. On any night on which you do not carry out the kill, you may use any one of the following actions:• Learn the role name of a player of your choice• Learn the powers of a given role (You send me the name of a Once Upon a Time character, and I will send you their role PM. If you choose a character that is not in the game, I will make up a role PM to send to you.)• Block the night action of a player of your choice• Redirect the night action of a player of your choice to a different player of your choice• Redirect all night actions to a player of your choice• Kill a player of your choice (you may only use this action once during the game)• Appear town-aligned to all cop investigations for the duration of the night• Appear to trackers and watchers who will target you tomorrow night not to have targeted anyone• Learn who, if anyone, targeted you during the night

Madge You are Magic Mirror, Independent Role Name Cop. You are in love with Regina, and you desire nothing more than her happiness. As the town journalist, you intend to use your investigative abilities to help the woman you love.You win if Regina wins.Once per night, you may target a player and find out their role name.

Ben M16 You are Henry, Town Universal Backup. You have the heart of the truest believer, and as such your heart cannot be magically ripped out of you. You believe so fully in your fellow townspeople that you can take their place if they die.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.You gain the powers of the first town-aligned player to die. Any attempt to rip out your heart will fail.

mpolo You are Emma, Town Cop/Lie Detector. You are the sheriff of the town of Storybrooke. Your “superpower” of being able to recognize when anyone is lying to you is very helpful to you in carrying out your duties as sheriff.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.Each night, you may choose a player to either cop (you will receive a result of Town or Not Town) or lie detect (PM me with a quote from any post from the previous day, along with a link to the post in which it was made; I will then tell you whether the quoted statement is a lie).

JudeMorrigan /Dr UgYou are Snow White, Town Mason. You and Prince Charming are the rightful rulers of your people. You are also highly respected by the townspeople, so as long as the two of you are united, your opinion carries great weight.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.Your mason partner is Lawrencelot (Prince Charming, Town). You may communicate privately with your partner at any time before or during the game (please copy the mod on all PMs).If you and Prince Charming both vote for the same player, your two votes combined count as three.

Lawrencelot You are Prince Charming, Town Mason. You and Snow White are the rightful rulers of your people. You are also highly respected by the townspeople, so as long as the two of you are united, your opinion carries great weight.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.Your mason partner is JudeMorrigan (Snow White, Town). You may communicate privately with your partner at any time before or during the game (please copy the mod on all PMs).If you and Snow White both vote for the same player, your two votes combined count as three.

bessie You are Red, Town Vigilante. You are a werewolf, as your mother and grandmother were before you, but you have gained the ability to control your wolf side, making you a powerful ally on the night of the full moon.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.On night 3, you are immune to all nightkills, you appear as non-town to all investigations, and you have a one-shot unblockable kill.

SPACKlick/DjehutynakhtYou are Dr. Frankenstein, Town Doctor. You are a trained medical doctor, but you have also, with a little aid from magic, succeeded in raising the dead. Both of those skills may be valuable in protecting the town from the villains.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.Once per night, you may choose a player to protect. That player will be immune to nightkills for the duration of the night.Once per game, at night, instead of using your doctor power, you may target a living player of your choice to attempt to resurrect. If that player is killed during that night, they will return to life approximately 24 hours after the beginning of the following day, after their abilities and alignment have been publicly revealed. Once you use this ability, whether you successfully resurrect anyone or not, you may not use your doctor ability for the remainder of the game.

SDK You are Granny, Town Tracker. When you were younger, you were bitten by a werewolf. You no longer transform at the full moon, but you still retain your enhanced senses, making you excellent at tracking people. Your sense of smell also gives you some information about the person you are tracking.You win if all threats to town are eliminated.Once per night, you may choose a player to track. You will be informed of who that player targeted during the night. If the player you target is not human, you will also be informed of their species.

Also, since this is my first time modding, any comments on how I did or suggestions on what I could do better in the future?

Bit of a bummer how the stuff with Ben went down, but good game, all. Thanks for filling in for me Dr. Ug. SDK pretty much got the source of my distraction down in one. There are complications (aren't there always), but it was (and still is) a thing about a girl.

And apologies to bessie for what was pretty much a pure OMGUS reaction my part. I had a pretty strong suspicion that I was doing so on a townie by the time I bailed on the game, but I was having a beast of a time finding the time to play properly.

Thanks for having me, and I thought this was an well-modded game with some really interesting roles.

Knowing flavor honestly helped me a lot in this game. And great playing everyone. I was not sure that I would win this even after the modkill. Upsetting that it ended that way.

Also for most of the game I really wanted to claim independent but was worried (probably for a good reason) that it wouldn't fly. After rumple was lynched and I didn't do much to save him, I thought I was done. And I totally didn't expect to have another supporter.

If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

Well played scum. I was really lost at the end, it could have been anyone.

SirGabriel you did a great job. I don't know how the modding could have been improved. Maybe the game favoured scum since apparently the second 'mislynch' cost town the game, while having lynched correctly twice. The reviving the dead mechanic looked cool and pretty balanced since you get a confirmed town only if you correctly guess what scum will do.

I gotta ask - could you tell that I was the magic mirror? In one of my early posts I did a breadcrumb - 'regina's description does not reflect well on her towniness' - hoping that regina would know they had a mirror and would use that breadcrumb to identify me, but it looks like you didn't have that information so there was no hope.

Madge wrote:could you tell that I was the magic mirror? In one of my early posts I did a breadcrumb - 'regina's description does not reflect well on her towniness' - hoping that regina would know they had a mirror and would use that breadcrumb to identify me, but it looks like you didn't have that information so there was no hope.

In retrospect I should've noticed this. But no, I had no clue whatsoever that (a) the mirror was in the game, (b) the mirror was somehow related to me, and (c) you were the mirror. Only once someone pointed out how Regina should've noticed that did I actually realize it. I'll look more closely next time!

I did feel that there needed to be someone else anti-town, but I didn't think it would be helping scum directly. I totally suspected an SK. But I was also making so many (educated) guesses throughout the game with my claims that it was tough to keep it all straight

If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

1. To some degree it was a bit overpowered that I had control of two votes (if you think about it - it's as if I have two votes AND town has one less), but only from the perspective that town wouldn't have even thought of that. I'm not sure if there was any way to let town know that there may be some bastardry with the votes, but maybe something along those lines.2. I would've really liked a hint in my role PM about the mirror!3. I would definitely play another game related to the show, though maybe this time not related to one specific season! I actually like that Regina has not been evil for a few seasons now.4. This is completely a personal thought, but what I did in my Scooby game is let one mafia supporter (who was also a type of mirror / reflection) search for the mafia leader. If found, the mafia supporter would join the mafia chat. That way he/she would be less lost.

Honestly everything above are just my opinions, and the game was very enjoyable and well-planned without any of them. Thank you for putting this together!

If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

dimochka wrote:1. To some degree it was a bit overpowered that I had control of two votes (if you think about it - it's as if I have two votes AND town has one less), but only from the perspective that town wouldn't have even thought of that. I'm not sure if there was any way to let town know that there may be some bastardry with the votes, but maybe something along those lines.

I did hint at it:

SirGabriel wrote:Game-Specific Rules2. Just because something appears to be hammer doesn’t necessarily mean it is. Therefore, discussion and voting may continue after hammer appears to have been reached, until I announce the day has ended. If it was actually hammer, any votes placed after the hammer will not count.

The only way something could appear to be hammer but not actually be was if someone's vote didn't count (or at least didn't count for the person they thought they were voting for).I was surprised at how little discussion there was of that particular rule.

dimochka wrote:2. I would've really liked a hint in my role PM about the mirror!4. This is completely a personal thought, but what I did in my Scooby game is let one mafia supporter (who was also a type of mirror / reflection) search for the mafia leader. If found, the mafia supporter would join the mafia chat. That way he/she would be less lost.

What i got was I was meant to use my role powers to find Regina, and then Regina would be informed of me, or I'd be informed of her, or something so we'd be able to communicate. If I found Regina and was just told "you've found Regina" I'd be really screwed. I considered reporting Regina as a different person if I did find her, so that way Regina would know I had her back, but at the same time, if I did that Regina might assume there was a redirector and deny the fake claim I gave to her.

I also assumed Regina would leave a hint for me so I scoured as best I could but came up empty, I ended up investigating SDK N1 because I figured SDK would be the most useful regina to me, and in absence of anything else I may as well seek out my most useful regina first.

Thank you SirGabriel for running this game! I won't have time to read the spoilers until tonight, so I will post my feedback after I figure out what happened. Are all the night actions in the spoilers?

N1 - tore out bessie's heartN2 - killed mpolo (kept control of bessie, but completely forgot to try to target someone with whatever actions bessie would have - would've been useless anyways)N3 - withheld kill, but redirected bessie at SDK. I had no idea that bessie was an SK, I actually provided a 2nd target - Dr Ug - in case bessie's action somehow affects two people.N4 - stole Dr Ug's heart, which by default would kill Bessie

D5 - I thought lawrence still had his double vote so the plan was to force a tie by having me and dr ug vote against lawrence, which means i kill at night and win.

If you're curious about the origin of my avatar, google "Cheburashka".

I read over the role PMs and they are really very clever. I really like the Mason/vote power, because although it is a strong power, there can be a disadvantage to using it early in the game because it will reveal the Mason team. I think scum was a bit powerful because they could each use a power or kill every night. And could Regina control another player in addition to her action every night? Also, I think that it said somewhere in the spoilers that Magic Mirror might pass the lie detector because they wouldn’t know Regina was anti town. I think that could have been very confusing if it happened.

JudeMorrigan, my gut instinct was always that my disagreement with you was town/town, but it was early in the game, Vytron had pretty much dominated D1, and there weren’t a lot of scumtells from anyone else yet. You played a good game and I hope a get an opportunity to play with you again someday. (And thanks for the update; I hope everything works out with the girl!)

I think dimochka played a brilliant game. I thought he was scum, but I was never able to build a really solid case, even to myself. Interestingly, one of the reasons I thought he was scummy was his defense of Madge at the end of D2 because I thought that he found her breadcrumb, and it turned out he didn’t even know he had a supporter. dimochka, why did you target me N1? I know now that I spent too much time D4 on Ben’s contradictory behavior and ran out of steam going after dimochka. I would like to believe that I could have convinced Dr Ug and Lawrencelot to lynch dimochka instead of me if D4 didn’t end early, but hey, town was cheating and that modkill was well deserved. It was unfortunate this happened, but I fully agree with the way SirGabriel handled the situation.

Thank you SirGabriel and I look forward to playing another one of your games!