I wonder just how much of this fiasco do we really and fully understand? All we know for sure is that this has been coming for quite awhile, and that's it has been exacerbated by greed, tax breaks for the rich at a time when we were coerced into beginning an unwinnable war, greed, reps in both houses of Congress like John McSame and Nancy Pelosi...did I say greed?

[url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26890600]Readers weigh in on the financial mess
Want to join in the discussion on the financial crisis? Log on to Newsvine
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How about the rest of us that have sacrificed in order to pay our mortgages each month by working harder and scraping to get by, what do we get out of this except the fact that we will have to pay for other people's mortgages more or less?
— MBritt

There are a lot of msnbc.com readers who agree with you: Why should I have to pay for the mistakes made by my neighbor who borrowed too much money?

It's an absolutely fair question. Here are few things to keep in mind: Relatively few homeowners who borrowed too much — or who were tricked into loans the brokers knew were unsustainable — are getting off easy in this mess. Millions have already lost their homes; only a few hundred thousand have worked out modified loans with their lenders with more affordable terms.

The rise in foreclosures is at the heart of the current financial crisis. The reason mortgage backed securities aren't trading is that investors who buy them have no idea how many mortgages in that pool are good — and how many more will default. Until we can figure out how to stop foreclosures, all of this mortgage paper will continue to clog the financial system. Whoever is to blame, the risk to the wider economy is very real.

Think of it like a patient who has a clogged coronary artery. Unless he gets bypass surgery, he's at high risk of a heart attack. If we don't come up with a solution — quickly — we risk an economic heart attack that would seriously damage the economy. And we'd all get hurt — no matter how prudently we've handled our personal finances.

Read more at the link.

Also:

Quote:

Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil.

Without mentioning her by name, Rep. Adam Putnam, R-Fla., No. 3 Republican, said: "The partisan tone at the end of the debate today I think did impact the votes on our side."

Putnam said lawmakers were working "to garner the necessary votes to avoid a financial collapse."

But the defeat was already causing a brutal round of finger-pointing.

"We could have gotten there today had it not been for the partisan speech that the speaker gave on the floor of the House," House Minority Leader John Boehner said. Pelosi's words, the Ohio Republican said, "poisoned our conference, caused a number of members that we thought we could get, to go south."

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., the whip, estimated that Pelosi's speech changed the minds of a dozen Republicans who might otherwise have supported the plan.

Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., scoffed at the explanation.

"Well if that stopped people from voting, then shame on them," he said. "If people's feelings were hurt because of a speech and that led them to vote differently than what they thought the national interest (requires), then they really don't belong here. They're not tough enough."

More than a repudiation of Democrats, Frank said, Republicans' refusal to vote for the bailout was a rejection of their own president.

"The Republicans don't trust the administration," he said. "It's a Republican revolt against George Bush and John McCain."

More on this story Newsvine: What should Congress do next? Click for full text of the Wall Street bailout plan (PDF)

In her speech, Pelosi had assailed Bush and his administration for reckless economic policies.

"They claim to be free market advocates when it's really an anything-goes mentality: No regulation, no supervision, no discipline. And if you fail, you will have a golden parachute and the taxpayer will bail you out. Those days are over. The party is over," Pelosi said.

"Democrats believe in a free market," she said. "But in this case, in its unbridled form, as encouraged, supported, by the Republicans — some in the Republican Party, not all — it has created not jobs, not capital. It has created chaos."

Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26884523/page/2/

For once I agree with Pelosi. It's Bush's failures and his cronyism that have led to this...and John McSame votes with Bush over 90% of the time.

_________________

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help. That other party, they work for people who don't need help. That's all there is to it."~Harry S. Truman

I wonder just how much of this fiasco do we really and fully understand? All we know for sure is that this has been coming for quite awhile, and that's it has been exacerbated by greed, tax breaks for the rich at a time when we were coerced into beginning an unwinnable war, greed, reps in both houses of Congress like John McSame and Nancy Pelosi...did I say greed?

You are right, we have known that this has been comming for quite awhile.

"If the people allow private banks to control their currency the banks and corporations will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." - Thomas Jefferson

We could do this for hours, days, weeks for that matter. We could go all the way back to the foundation of this country listing all of the warnings. We could point to each and every legislation that has finally lead to this fiasco.

Yet no one wanted to listen.

This system has not been caused by Bush but instead Bush is the result of a system that has been in the making for many, many decades.

Never forget, we get the rulers we deserve.

Crimson.

_________________CrimsonEagleThe war to end all wars can only be fought on the front-lines of the mind.

The greatest deception they have perpetrated is that we need them. Our greatest mistake is that we believe them.

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve will pump an additional $630 billion into the global financial system, flooding banks with cash to alleviate the worst banking crisis since the Great Depression.

This is pretty much what they asked for is it not? Note "Global financial system".

Is it really any different than if congress passed the 700 billion bailout?

Not really. It will have the same effect as far as we are concerned.

Quote:

An inflation tax is an analogous pejorative for the economic disadvantage suffered by holders of cash and cash equivalents in one denomination of currency due to the effects of inflation, which acts as a hidden tax that subtracts value from those assets. Like most concepts that don't sit well with the ruling establishment, inflation tax is not a rigorous economic concept.

The Austrian School views that inflation tax affects the middle and lower class the most. [1] Some argue that inflation is a regressive consumption tax. [2]

When central banks print notes and issue credit, they increase the amount of money available in the economy, usually as a reaction to worsening economic conditions. Through a change in real money balances, this causes inflation. Financing expenditure in this way is called seignorage and the effect of increasing the money supply and causing the holders of money to pay an inflation tax is the most obvious cost of inflation.

David Corn explains why the Dems and the Repubs who voted NO were against the bill:

David Corn summarizes the left's case against the bailout in this article.

His main points are:

*The taxpayers will not only bail out U.S. companies, but also foreign ones

*Million-dollar-a-month CEO salaries will continue

*The five-member oversight board will include three Bush appointees

*Few home owners will be saved from foreclosure *There are no guarantees that the treasury will get warrants commensurate with its investment

*There is no regulatory reform in the bill

He argues that there is no need to panic. A good bill in a week's time is a lot better than a bad bill right now.

Conservative Republican Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) also made a clear case against the bailout. His main points:*Economic freedom means the freedom to succeed but also the freedom to fail

*This bill gives the government the right to interrupt free markets

*The bill forever changes the relationship between the government and the markets

*The American people will have to foot the bill for Wall St.'s mismanagement

For a lot of ordinary Americans, this crisis reminds them of the story "The Boy Who Cried Wolf." As the Washington Post put it: "The leaders of the country said: Trust Us. The people said: Not this time."

Too many people still remember about how the administration said we had to invade Iraq right now with no time for debate because, as Condi Rice put it, "We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud". Maybe there is a wolf this time, but the administration has no credibility any more. The House is operating exactly the way the founding fathers wanted it to operate: to reflect the will and passions of the people.

John McCain blamed the failure of the House bill on the Democrats, even though 60% of the Democrats voted for the bill and only 33% of the Republican did so.

The old Maverick McCain would have said: "Government interference in the markets is a bad thing, something Republicans understand and Democrats don't, so we defeated this evil bill."

But Candidate McCain knew that would not sell so well, so he didn't say it.

McCain clearly realizes that his suspending his campaign and zipping off to Washington to provide leadership doesn't look so great now that the bill went down to defeat not because the Democrats opposed it, but because 2/3 of the House Republicans opposed it.

Who is the real leader now that Nancy Pelosi got a majority of her people behind the bill but McCain was unable to rally more than 1/3 of his troops and all eight members of the Arizona congressional delegation--four Republicans and four Democrats--voted against it?

__________________________

Here's something I've not heard discussed much about this mess:

CONSIDER (AND correct me where I may be wrong...it's all rather convoluted in many ways):

Treasury Sec. Paulson submitted a THREE PAGE proposal to Congress which REQUESTED $700 BILLION BUCKS to "bailout" certain companies in freefall. (short summary, to be sure.)

BUSH comes on television with his "the sky is falling" speech, looking like a deer in the headlights again, and says that Paulson's request must be approved by Congress IMMEDIATELY!

These are REPUBLICANS who wanted the bill passed IMMEDIATELY....what if Congress had NOT HESITATED? Look at Corn's list of points included in the bill that made both Dems and Repubs say WHOA... and consider what it would have meant if they had not stopped the bill in its tracks.

Now, WHO WANTED IT PASSED IMMEDIATELY? BUSH, PAULSON, MCCAIN, and a few other members from both parties.

Does it make sense to vote for the candidate who supported Bush and Paulson the first time around?

_________________

"Behind every great fortune lies a great crime."Honore de Balzac

"Democrats work to help people who need help. That other party, they work for people who don't need help. That's all there is to it."~Harry S. Truman