It seems as though we all want to see Amir get PT and develop so that he can provide real value in the Playoffs. We're all on the same page here.

Flip is clearly not satisfying this desire. Same page again.

However, he is doing pretty well with the other young players. Everyone seems to be down with that.

Because of the good job that he is doing in other areas, some of us are willing to live with the 1 defect while others are not satisfied. Some of us actually converted from unsatisfied to pretty satisfied just recently.

It's down to 1 player getting 5 mpg vs 10.

That is the biggest gripe on PF.com right now. Not a bad situation.

We're #1 in the power rankings. We're a lock to make the playoffs. 2nd best D in the leauge (behind a team we beat on their court). No injuries. Vets and youth. GM making solid trades.

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Great points, Tay. I also wonder how much development would our beloved LB do?

Yes you can. Dumars fired Carlisle after 2 fifty win seasons. Then he fired Brown after winning it all and coming within a quarter of basketball of winning a 2nd championship. Past success in winning games certainly is no guarantee of keeping a job.

If Dumars wants to win it all this year, then Amir must play, and Dumars knows this. If it takes firing the coach to get this done, then Dumars will do it.

Like he says, he fights complacency every day. Just maybe is tired of fighting with Flip and wants to find a coach on his side. (One who wants to win in the playoffs.)

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Carlisle and LB getting fired IMO, had nothing to do with not playing someone. Carlisle got fired because Dumars wanted LB, and LB got fired because he wanted to go somewhere else (Calm down Low).

So, neither got fired for the reason you are calling for Flip to go.

Saying that we can`t win it all because Amir doesn`t play is (fill in the blank)!!

I see what you are trying to do; if the Pistons don`t win it all, it will be because Amir didn`t get enough PT. I will be waiting anxiously if the Pistons do happen to win the title with AJ getting limited minutes.

Carlisle and LB getting fired IMO, had nothing to do with not playing someone. Carlisle got fired because Dumars wanted LB, and LB got fired because he wanted to go somewhere else (Calm down Low).

So, neither got fired for the reason you are calling for Flip to go.

Saying that we can`t win it all because Amir doesn`t play is (fill in the blank)!!

I see what you are trying to do; if the Pistons don`t win it all, it will be because Amir didn`t get enough PT. I will be waiting anxiously if the Pistons do happen to win the title with AJ getting limited minutes.

Development appears to be prioritized in the order of Max, AA, RS, AJ. Obviously RS slipped when injured. As long as there is regular tangible proof that Joes plan is being executed why beef over the itty bitty details. The season is long.

In case no one noticed some major development occurred against the Rockets when we ran three or four consecutive plays to JMax against the former DPOY. That didn't happen by accident. FYI, our 6th man is a blossoming STUD. You can bet Mount Motumbo was none too happy gitting the business like that.

As much as I dislike Flip, it's impossible to argue that he should be fired. The team is playing better than they ever have under him. CB, Sheed, Dice, and JMax have all improved this year. Flip has to get some credit for that.

He's built the team with the players that he wants, and they are still winning.

And the defense is still tops in the league.

I'm not sure how much of this Flip deserves credit for, but I can no longer say that he's doing anything to hold this team back.

As much as I dislike Flip, it's impossible to argue that he should be fired. The team is playing better than they ever have under him. CB, Sheed, Dice, and JMax have all improved this year. Flip has to get some credit for that.

He's built the team with the players that he wants, and they are still winning.

And the defense is still tops in the league.

I'm not sure how much of this Flip deserves credit for, but I can no longer say that he's doing anything to hold this team back.

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Maybe the solution is to modify Flipper's contract so that:

1. He only coaches pre-season and regular season.
2. Pound for Pound coaches us during the playoffs.

#3- Keep developing Afflalo as a defensive stopper, and contributor on offense.

#4- Increase Amir's minutes during meaningful parts of games. Let him learn the system and shake the rookie mistakes.

#5- See what Herrmann can do. Possibly create a little competition for the backup 3 spot.

#6- Give Bresek enough minutes so that we'll know if he can add value in case of injury... or just against big centers.

#7- Samb- Get him back to the D-league I guess. He's so far down the food chain that it really doesn't matter. It would be nice to play him, but not at the expense of 1-6 above.

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1&3 are a go. 3 is iffy. 4&5 extremely unlikely to happen.

The main problem w/ Flip that seems to be indicative of his playoff failure is that he clings to the wrong player. Afflalo and Amir will be the ones that will help in the type of play you need in the playoffs, but he's stuck on Hayes (who will get exposed defensively) and Brezec (who already got exposed defensively).

Those tendecies make me think he has no clue about what it takes to win when it counts.

OK, I had a thought. We all know and understand that a team loses before it wins. Piston fans know like no other that the internal drive needed to become a Champion is found in the bitter losses on the road to a title. What if, just what if....the same is true for coaching. What if those ugly ECF losses for Flip was the proving ground he needed. I believe with everything that's in me the Piston Nation will not be disappointed this summer. We may not win the title, but that crap we saw the last 2 years, ain't goin' down this year.

Remember, we handled the SA loss OK, we gave the Spurs the nod, and vowed to come back. We thought we were on the verge of creating a Bos-LA type Finals rivalry for the 00's. It's not that we hate losing, we just hate losing the Flip way. Well I think Flip is learning how to be a championship coach, he knows that if this team loses the way it did the last 2 years, he's outta here, he knows if he wins, he'll get Pop type tenure in Det. When you look at our rosters age, experience, talent and cap flexibility...this is a dream job for the next 3-5 years.

In a lot of ways, I like what Flip is doing right now better. He's getting the defensive performance out of the team without the relentless riding of the players. Also, the offense is potent enough to win comfortably, which allows rest for the starters and development for the young players.

Players are starting to say things like "we are creating offense through our defense and our defense is strengthened by our offensive efficiency." You gotta believe that Flip is preaching that if guys like Jarvis Hayes are spitting that out in interviews. And it is the right way to look at it.

In a lot of ways, I like what Flip is doing right now better. He's getting the defensive performance out of the team without the relentless riding of the players. Also, the offense is potent enough to win comfortably, which allows rest for the starters and development for the young players.

Players are starting to say things like "we are creating offense through our defense and our defense is strengthened by our offensive efficiency." You gotta believe that Flip is preaching that if guys like Jarvis Hayes are spitting that out in interviews. And it is the right way to look at it.

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This is in my opinion the main reason that AJ is not getting more minutes and any meaningful minutes. His defense is just not there yet. That of course is easy to understand given that he didn't play any college ball and most of his post high school play has been in the D league where defense is a dirty word.

Brown said of his Detroit experience. "Since day one all I've said was I wanted to coach Detroit. I told them last Thursday that I was prepared to coach. For anybody to say I don't want to coach Detroit ... that's not real accurate." ...

...July 15, 2005: After another meeting on July 13, Brown reiterates his desire to coach in Detroit: “I want to coach Detroit, and I expressed that to (Davidson and Dumars). Now Mr. D and Joe just have to talk to Mr. Glass and decide what they want to do. I want them to be comfortable. I don't want to retire, but I want to move forward.”

"I've told you, nothing has changed since Nov. 3, when I had my first surgery, and nothing has changed since my last surgery," Brown said. "I want to be here. I want to coach. That's what I do. Hopefully, after this season, I can be in a position to coach again."

Brown has been battling a bladder problem since November, when complications developed after he underwent hip surgery. A surgical procedure in March failed to correct the problem.

"This is where I want to be when the season is over," said Brown, who has three years remaining on his Pistons contract. "I've got to get checked up. Hopefully, I'll be able to continue coaching. That's it. I have no agenda at all."

I will agree that things seem for the moment to be better than in past years as far as developing a bench. However, the job is not done yet. Here is a quick list of things that need to happen yet.

Note what thread this is in. Yes, if Saunders does not feel he needs to do the work, we need a new coach. Several years back I said that if either Memo or Prince got at least 10 minutes per game, I would not call for Carlisle to be fired. Memo ended up playing plenty that year. Carlisle was still fired, I was happy about it, but I did not call for his firing. I am being a bit tougher on Flip. Its his third year. No more half way stuff. He has to step up and do the job of getting us fully, not just partially, but fully ready for the playoffs.

1) Amir Johnson needs to become a regular part of the rotation. This will do two important things. One, it will make us pretty much immune to foul troube this upcoming playoffs at the bigs positions. Two, Dyess will remain well rested for the playoffs. (Compared to right now where he is on a pace that is pretty sure to burn him out.)

2) Afflalo must remain firmly established in the rotation, even after Stuckey is integrated into it. This again will accomplish two things. Immunity to foul trouble at guard position for the most part is one. The 2nd is that both Billups and Rip will be very well rested for the playoffs. (Compared to things going barely ok in that department at the moment. Their minutes are down, but its mostly due to all the 4th quarters they are not playing. I want to see each game see them get proper rest thru the first 3 quarters as well.)

3)Small forward backup position must be improved. Either Hayes is going to have to step it up a lot compared to his performance of late, or someone else needs to get those minutes. I am sure everyone knows a couple of favorites of mine for that job. I believe either Amir Johnson, or Sammy Mejia, could do a better job with the minutes.

Next season is the last year of Flips contract. Joe does not like going into a season with lame duck coaches. This summer either Flip is getting an extension or he's getting released, one or the other. The only way Joe will let Flip stay is if we make a strong showing in the playoffs. The only way we exit short of the Larry-O Trophy better be in a Game 7 in the ECF or Finals, on the road, in Triple OT by a 3/4 buzzer beater, with a hand in the face. Flip HAS to get it done this season, he really has no choice.

Next season is the last year of Flips contract. Joe does not like going into a season with lame duck coaches. This summer either Flip is getting an extension or he's getting released, one or the other. The only way Joe will let Flip stay is if we make a strong showing in the playoffs. The only way we exit short of the Larry-O Trophy better be in a Game 7 in the ECF or Finals, on the road, in Triple OT by a 3/4 buzzer beater, with a hand in the face. Flip HAS to get it done this season, he really has no choice.

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In other words what you are saying is that all Flip has to do is get past his regular stumbling block...game six of a conference finals...that is the key game he has lost in the conference finals in 04, 06 and 07 and why he has not got to game 7 or the finals. The way to take all of the suspense out of it is to take care of the celtics or cavs in a sweep or a 5 game ECF series and get into the finals. If he actualy gets the team to the NBA finals and they lose sure I will be disappointed but I may be Ok with him staying, but if they lose in the ECFs again..he's got to go!!

In other words what you are saying is that all Flip has to do is get past his regular stumbling block...game six of a conference finals...that is the key game he has lost in the conference finals in 04, 06 and 07 and why he has not got to game 7 or the finals. The way to take all of the suspense out of it is to take care of the celtics or cavs in a sweep or a 5 game ECF series and get into the finals. If he actualy gets the team to the NBA finals and they lose sure I will be disappointed but I may be Ok with him staying, but if they lose in the ECFs again..he's got to go!!

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This is a tangible goal for Flip. A goal that is achievable and desirable by all who post here. My gut reaction though is that all he has to do to stay is make his annual 50/20*, and then continue to be the good company man.