Im not saying that there shouldn't be a crackdown on dogfighting. Im not saying that at all. What Im saying is, that it's hypocritcal to have been punished for something, then turn around and say the next guy deserves a harsher punishment.

he can be an advocate for animal rights, he can start his own rescue shelter, but what he cant do IMO is say the next guy should be hung out to dry for doing what he did. it aint right no matter what the overall agenda is. If he wants to do that, he should volunteer to do the extra time himself...otherwise he's just a hypocrite.

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July 21st, 2011, 4:34 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

Quote:

Hypocrisy involves DECEPTION

what??and where did you come up with that??

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July 21st, 2011, 4:43 pm

DJ-B

Pro Bowl Player

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2578

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

noun, plural -sies. 1. a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess. 2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude. 3. an act or instance of hypocrisy.

—Synonyms 1. See deceit.

There is No pretense here. He has admitted to his crimes, admitted he was wrong, says he is changed and is acting accordingly.

He isnt a hypocrite unless he hasnt changed/continues to endorse dog fighting while speaking out agaisnt it.

let me try andsimplify this...if by his recamendations they extend the sentance he got to 4-6 years ...great..big win for animal rights. awsome. but if Vick does 4-6 yerars that he would be recommending, does he play football again?

let me try andsimplify this...if by his recamendations they extend the sentance he got to 4-6 years ...great..big win for animal rights. awsome. but if Vick does 4-6 yerars that he would be recommending, does he play football again?

No he doesn't, but the fact is it WASN'T the law at the time and Vick has ZERO obligation to serve any time he is not sentenced to. If on the back end of his punishment he focuses some of his time on helping push better legislation in place to help give incentive to prevent said crimes from being committed by others... there is ZERO hypocrisy there if that means he would have been given a heavier hand given his crimes.

Again, you don't really know what hypocrisy means if you are going to continue to say this. Vick doesn't need to give himself the same punishment he is pushing for, there is not obligation, there is no hypocrisy. There is a man who SEEMINGLY is trying to do the right thing and provide absolutely important insight into what we need to do to help give intensive to stop.

There is ZERO deception in what he is doing therefore there is ZERO hypocrisy. Look, given the choice he would never have done it in the first place... but he did... and all he can do now is pay the debt he was told he needed to pay and possibly finds ways to prevent it in the future. You want something from him he can't possibly give to the world and is under no obligation to self impose it.

so you see NO PROBLEM with someone who gets caught doing something wrong (after months of lying about it)comming away from it saying others that do it should be punished harder than them, oh and also, enusre that no one else can get the same oportunity at a second chance at redemtion and wealth that they had?

you dont have a problem with that whatso ever? you don't think that everyone should be treated equally and fairly?

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July 21st, 2011, 7:22 pm

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

regularjoe12 wrote:

so you see NO PROBLEM with someone who gets caught doing something wrong (after months of lying about it)comming away from it saying others that do it should be punished harder than them, oh and also, enusre that no one else can get the same oportunity at a second chance at redemtion and wealth that they had?

you dont have a problem with that whatso ever? you don't think that everyone should be treated equally and fairly?

Life isn't fair. I never had a chance to make the millions Vick did and I never even came close to going to jail, let alone dog fight. You cannot take circumstances that he has no control over changing and suddenly expect him to be able to. The past is the past, you can't change it, you can hold it over people's heads for the rest of their lives like they suddenly can make it all better or it is a choice they now can go back and fix.

I know you don't like him, but don't let your unwillingness to forgive him cloud your logic on this to create some reasoning that is completely untrue. You write this as if he's not allowed to do the right thing because he himself did the wrong thing in the past. That is crap... you are giving him a no win situation here.

so you see NO PROBLEM with someone who gets caught doing something wrong (after months of lying about it)comming away from it saying others that do it should be punished harder than them, oh and also, enusre that no one else can get the same oportunity at a second chance at redemtion and wealth that they had?

you dont have a problem with that whatso ever? you don't think that everyone should be treated equally and fairly?

Life isn't fair. I never had a chance to make the millions Vick did and I never even came close to going to jail, let alone dog fight. You cannot take circumstances that he has no control over changing and suddenly expect him to be able to. The past is the past, you can't change it, you can hold it over people's heads for the rest of their lives like they suddenly can make it all better or it is a choice they now can go back and fix.

I know you don't like him, but don't let your unwillingness to forgive him cloud your logic on this to create some reasoning that is completely untrue. You write this as if he's not allowed to do the right thing because he himself did the wrong thing in the past. That is crap... you are giving him a no win situation here.

What is crap is your reply here...you are putting words in my mouth that earlier in the thread I have already stated is the oposite, and you are making it personal to you for no reason. Im not putting him in a no win situation, all im saying is someone who has been punished for something shouldn't be asking for harsher punsihments for others. Im sorry you cant understand that, but i really cant think on any other ways to state it. you have YET to give me a valid reason to think otherwise...DJ-b on the otherhand, has at least given me a reason to look into things.. as I may have misunderstood the penalties he was asking for.

and as far as

Quote:

Life isn't fair

...apply that same logic to the birth control thread...

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July 22nd, 2011, 8:15 am

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

regularjoe12 wrote:

Im not saying that there shouldn't be a crackdown on dogfighting. Im not saying that at all. What Im saying is, that it's hypocritcal to have been punished for something, then turn around and say the next guy deserves a harsher punishment.

he can be an advocate for animal rights, he can start his own rescue shelter, but what he cant do IMO is say the next guy should be hung out to dry for doing what he did. it aint right no matter what the overall agenda is. If he wants to do that, he should volunteer to do the extra time himself...otherwise he's just a hypocrite.

You are confusing things. Look, I don't like Michael Vick. I felt, and still feel, he should have been barred from the NFL. But, it wasn't my decision.

But, at the same time, I'm not going to call him a hypocrite, as long as it seems that he is being honest RIGHT NOW.

You say he's a hypocrite because he's calling for harsher sentencing. I say he's living proof that the previous sentencing guide lines didn't work, because they didn't prevent him from getting involved in the activities.

It's called experience, not hypocrisy.

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July 22nd, 2011, 9:01 am

steensn

RIP Killer

Joined: June 26th, 2006, 1:03 pmPosts: 13429

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

regularjoe12 wrote:

What is crap is your reply here...you are putting words in my mouth that earlier in the thread I have already stated is the oposite, and you are making it personal to you for no reason. Im not putting him in a no win situation, all im saying is someone who has been punished for something shouldn't be asking for harsher punsihments for others. Im sorry you cant understand that, but i really cant think on any other ways to state it. you have YET to give me a valid reason to think otherwise...DJ-b on the otherhand, has at least given me a reason to look into things.. as I may have misunderstood the penalties he was asking for.

regularjoe, you are arguing he's hypocritical which puts him in a no win situation because you are implying deception by using that word. DJ-B gave a technical reason why he may not even be asking for harsher penalties for the same crimes he committed... but the facts still stand that if he did you would be saying the exact same thing you are now. I don't care what the facts are in this case I only care about how we as a society react to them.

In this case I find it saddening that one would disallow someone from doing the right thing because he once did the wrong thing. Suddenly he's not capable of doing what is right, for what? Some petty excuse that it's not fair?

regularjoe12 wrote:

and as far as

Quote:

Life isn't fair

...apply that same logic to the birth control thread...

Nope, because those children have no chance to pull out of it on their own. We are talking about grown adults here.

Mike, I absolutly get where you are comming from. If he were to put forth or encourage programs to educate, or even start a wistle blowing program for those doing it now,I'd be all for it. I simply dont think it's right though, to have a guy be given chance to completly pick up his life again go out and say no one else should have this chance. To me that IS hypocrital. "whats good for me is too good for anyone else." thats what this sounds like to me..and Im simply not a fan of it.

Steensn...i am to the point that you have no idea what Im saying anymore as your last post had no real input on this particular discussion...you are trying to put words in my mouth, claiming there I'm putting him in a no win situation, when several times I've offered alternatives that i would have no problem with. there are TONS of things he can and has done to "do right". just because i think this in particular thing would be wrong im saying he can do no right?? i dont think so..... and Im a STRONG advocate of fair play..be it for children or adults. If having a sense of fair play is "petty" then so be it, ill gladly call myself petty all day long.

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July 22nd, 2011, 5:37 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: Vick urges Congress to make attending dog fight FED crim

DJ-B wrote:

In addition, he is pushing for something that isnt a FED Crime to become a FED Crime... attending dog fights.

He isnt pushing (at least from the excerpt in the OP) for Harsher punishments for running a dog ring... which is already a Federal Crime (and what he was busted for).

I would say not only is he not a Hypocrite, but we arent even dicussing the right change in laws that he is pushing for.

you are correct sir. Just had time to read the full bill and you are 100% right. apples and oranges. While i stand by what i said, the reality is that this debate has become hypathetical as I was wrong about he is actually encouraging. good catch.