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I've got a question for those of you who may know. In just about every professional sport I know of the criteria for being a "pro" player are that you have the ability to compete at the highest level and that they are capable of making a living at it.

Now I may be wrong but isn't the criteria for being a pro paintball player the amount of tournaments you participate in? First you start out as a novice, then after so many events you have to move up to rookie and so on through amateur then pro right? So would a pro then be a person who just participates in lots of tournaments, regardless of skill?

As to making a living at playing tournaments is there anybody out there actually doing it? No full or part time jobs or business ownership, just income from playing tournaments that is sufficient to make a living. Sponsorships can be considered income I think, it is a form of payment. I suppose it is possible but I haven't heard of anyone doing it.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mykroft:I like watching tourney's, and tournament players. Unfortunately my experience of competetive players has generally been pretty bad. There are guys like the Beach Boyz and PSI who are cool, don't cheat, and don't mind playing a few newbies (which I am compared to them), but playing against guys like Masters of Mayhem, who are real dicks, and well known for cheating, and overshooting, even in rec ball, is simply not fun. If there was a major tour, which enforced a code of conduct, and was death on cheaters (I say wiping=DQ minimum) I would be very interested in supporting and possibly playing rookie/novice in that league.

The Problem with tourney's, to quote a unnamed PB video:

"That's just splatter Mr. Long" ref to Bob Long, after 4 breaks on his shoulder.

</font>

heh that reminds me, one day at one of the fields i goto, there was a guy he was either Pro or Am. in one game, i was watching ( it was raining that day so i didn't feel like playing in a muddy field) and that guy just wiped out entire team and at the end, he came back to his own flag station and goggled everysingle newbie and first timers sitting in the back because they were accedently shooting at him.

Ok,
I hate to beat a dead horse... But I wanna put in my 2 cents. I've met a few tourney players. The 2 guys I met that were on an amateur team where great. They were friendly, good sports and gave up advice without being arrogant. They took my friend and me onto their team (playing recball) without hesitation after the "pro" players at the field blew us off. I really couldn't even tell you if they were pro or not but the am players said they heard of em. But I'm happy to report that despite them wipping a few times and almost getting into a fist fight over a clean hit, we whipped the crap out of them. I found that because they were so cocky, I got mad at myself if I screwed up. I had to play flawlessly against them just to shut them up. And it sucked all the fun out of the game for me. I don't care if I get gogged 3 games in a row as long as everybody laughs about it afterwards,(well... I might feel stupid) Just don't forget why you are playing the game.

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God was my Co-pilot, but we crashed into a mountain and I was forced to eat him...

Ego crazed fools many of em. Just watch the paintball videos... what do they all talk about? How good he is, how good that guy is, what a legend of the game this guy is. They are inventing their own greatness.

I wish there was a great team out there that didn't have the sponsorships, didn't open their mouths, played with great sportsmanship... and whooped their sorry butts every time. And I have no doubt that there are people out there fully capable of this, and then some. These pro's haven't had the chance to meet people that can out right whoop em... the best out there never played the game or never decided to excel in it. The bar can be raised quite a bit.

Paintball is a very small and young sport. Where are the Paintball instructors, the multiple books on Paintball theory? This sort of thing, the signs of a developed sport... there is nothing like this. You have to learn by playing. What mainstream sport is like this? None. What sport is there where you can become a pro in just 2 years or some really short amount of time? Something wrong with this picture. We have yet to see an extremely high level game of paintball.

I'm not impressed by most pros by any means... a lot of them just want to make you beat them with a stick because they are so full of themselves.

I'm impressed by players who play hard, play fair, help other players, legitimately know what they are talking about... they love the sport for what it is. The one's that seem to be enjoying themselves on the field, win or lose.

I think another thing is that the games tend to be so short compared to other spectator sports, and most of all, as has been said many time before, it's not on tv; most tourny info I learn comes from various magazines, a month or 2 after it happened, you see no plays, you have to rely on someone else to describe it.

Someone like Micheal Jordan or Wayne Gretzsky, or whoever, they have spent years and years, most of their lives, devoted to their sport. They practiced every day. From the ages of 5 to the present they dedicated themselves to the sport. Thats what makes them pros.

Our "pros" are guys who have been playing for what, 10 years tops? 90% of them have been playing less than that. And they practice every weekend?

Granted, paintball is a little expensive to go out and practice every day, but we have yet to hit the level of play that other "professional" sports have reached.

Its easy to respect a player like Micheal Jordan, or even someone who plays pro and sucks. Its a lot harder to respect someone like Todd Martinez who has been playing a few years only, and gives an interview like he did. Even if they don't have the attitude that he has, it still isn't the same.

No further explanations, you either understand me by now or you don't :-)

I am a Pro Player and my team has been supported by AGD for over 10 Years now. We started out like most of you playing on the weekends for fun. We played in tourneys as Am players for many years. We decided we wanted to try and compete with the top teams in the World at the pro level. I would like to thank AGD for all of there support and thank everyone in the forum for supporting AGD.
Thanks

well if u name any other pro sprot out there u will affilate it with a player. every sport has their great player. paintball however has yet to see this great player. yes we have great players but when it comes to sportsmanship and integrity and off the feild greatness we dont see it. from what i have noticed that all the pro people care about is themselfs and dont care much about the rest of the sport. name one pro team that actually promotes this sport to the general public. also most of the teams considered pro are really not a pro caliber. i can argue this by am B teams wiping out pro teams.

i think this sport is still run by the industry and not the players. this is one big killer of our sport. if any of u try to start a paintball buisness its hard since the big distrbutors run the sport and hurts the small dealers which actually keep this sport alive.

in almost any other sport u have young kids aspiring to play pro. in paintball all the young kids r worrying about getting enough money to go out and shoot 500 rounds in the woods for fun. they dont care about the pro teams cause there r no finacail breaks for them to get there. i see SO many very talented players that cant play cause they dont have the money to pay the price needed to play tournys. so right off the start u elimate most of the good players just because of finaces.

the people that can pay the money to play at a higher level usually dont make it outta the local level. this is due to no team organisation. competitive paintball is a team sport. there is no basis for a team when kids start playing. every other sport has leagues and such at a young age. community support these leagues and bring their kids to play in these leagues and the commited talented players come out and to the next level. with the parents supporting these activites it also helps a lot in the attitude of the players and gives them a lot of respect for where they r. where in paintball do we have any of this?

so we have pro players that arnt pro caliber, and industry that hurt the growth of the sport. most of the general public to put down our sport. and no baisis for a good upbringing for yuoung players.

how can we care about pro players when we r just looking to make it the next game to play and find a team that can do the same.

a lot of work needs to be done to get the pro level any recognition. they need to handel themselves in a professional manner and the industry has to help get these players to the top.

the main reason i dont talk about it is because what is there to talk about other than guess what team won this and what team won that. to me it does'nt matter. but theres i kid on my team who wont shoot a barrel shorter than 14in because almost all pro players use them. its mainly because most paintballers dont care what equipment the pros use. jacksonville could be using angel or emags or shockers and they would still play just the same. (except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mag happy:(except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)</font>

After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take. That's not too bad, considering how much I played in that time period.

Pros:

I've met em, played against em, played with em.

Some are great guys, some are arrogant pricks.

I think the sport wouldn't be the same without them; it's the high end tourny scene that drives the market for the new toys.

We'd still be wearing softball catcher pads as knee/shin pads without the tourny scene. Nitrogen wouldn't be as popular and cheap without it, and fields wouldn't cater to the people that did buy tanks as much as they do.

Goggles: We wouldn't have around 10 different goggles to choose from, we'd have maybe two or three.

Paint? Without the tourny scene being so big and drawing in the kids and the dollars, the paint would still be 90-120 a case for 2500.
Now? You can get a case of 2000 for less than 40 bucks, retail.

It's true, I have issues with the "pros" that toss their equipment on the ground. I consider them and the cheaters to be the real downside to the top end of the sport.

But not miss them if they were gone? I think you'd miss the new toys that come out for the tourny players.
Maybe some of you would be glad to go back to 95 when everyone shot a mag or a cocker, and they worked when you babied them.
You still use C02, so what do you care, right? Let them buy expansion chambers and have massive dropoff after 5 shots in the winter.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by mag happy:the main reason i dont talk about it is because what is there to talk about other than guess what team won this and what team won that. to me it does'nt matter. but theres i kid on my team who wont shoot a barrel shorter than 14in because almost all pro players use them. its mainly because most paintballers dont care what equipment the pros use. jacksonville could be using angel or emags or shockers and they would still play just the same. (except for the fact that if they had angels they'd be jaming the damn bolts back into place all the time.)</font>

its the EXACT opposite...you wouldnt know how many people buy gear because pros use them....i guarantee if Avalanche(the team most kids know about...) all started using warp feeds, you would see a HUGE increase in warp feed sales...

also i could say that the gun does matter. No matter how sweet my shocker was, i couldnt play nearly as effictevly as when i am using my angel or now maybe my emag. THe shocker was just to bulky and the front grip was too close to the grip frame for me to take accurate fast pop shots. This is only me, every gun feels better or worse in other peoples hands.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by MicroB:I have been playing paintball for six months at a local field and they just put in a hyperball field (in may) word got around San Diego. Now pretty much every weekend team Ironman and Dynasty, and sometimes members of the family show up and play. My first experience with a pro team;

1. Ironman; rude, obnoxious cry babes that wipe everything. I was very disappointed. They cuss ALOT. There also rude off the field.

2. Dynasty; pretty much the same as Ironman. they mirror each other well.

3. The Family; the whole team hasn't shown but the players didn't wipe that I watched not once, and they didn't swear as much or at all.

While watching them play (Ironman and Dynasty)cussing and scream'en at each other one of Ironmans front players went to bunker a front of Dynasty's and his gun malfunctioned (I think his revvy batteries died and blocked the ball from feeding), so the player throws his 2001 LCD Angel and angel air on the ground so hard he bent the barrel.

The most frustrating part is there are typically 60-80 newbies standing around watching these players wanting to play like them and the teams are acting like this, what kind of role model is that. If they were to televise these teams, I think it would give the sport a bad rep.

These are good players(other than the wiping) and I do learn from watching them, but they need to clean up their act. Given these circumstances, I don't think to highly of Pro-teams. Given this is my only experience with them.

BTW, there were 6-8 newbies fighting over the bent angel barrel.

[This message has been edited by MicroB (edited 07-09-2001).]</font>

I've played with Bob Longs Ironmen at my local Sherwood Forest. They seemed pretty honest, I didnt see any wipe...BTW, you should've ran up and swiped up that angel

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She was a fast machine
She kept her motor clean
She was the best damn woman I had ever seen
She had the sightless eyes
Telling me no lies
Knockin' me out with those American thighs
Taking more than her share
Had me fighting for air
She told me to come but I was already there
'Cause the walls start shaking
The earth was quaking
My mind was aching
And we were making it and you -
Shook me all night long
You shook me alll night long

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Jax-Warriors:I am a Pro Player and my team has been supported by AGD for over 10 Years now. We started out like most of you playing on the weekends for fun. We played in tourneys as Am players for many years. We decided we wanted to try and compete with the top teams in the World at the pro level. I would like to thank AGD for all of there support and thank everyone in the forum for supporting AGD.
Thanks

</font>

PGP: are you going to post here offen? i see that that was ur first post here

Me personally follow pro, but I can compete in the Amateur B division, so I should follow it. But I can see that most of you don't and play local tournament (which is nothing wrong with that) but why should you follow pro, because chances are that you will never play against them.

<font face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by DarkRipper:
After owning 12 angels over a period of 4 years, I can honestly say that I've had to push my bolt back about 10 times, give or take.

On Angel LED's it's really easy to jam the bolt when you chop, a bit of shell get's between the bolt and breech. LCD's have a longer bolt that's harder to jam, just about the only real improvement to the LCD over a late model LED.

After reading the messages so far, it seems to me that the pro ball is ignored in AO because of the lack of knowledge of it.

http://www.p8ntballer.com is a great site directed mostly to tournament players and is affiliated with the Paintball Games International magazine. It has how-to-play articles, interviews, gear reviews and very recently updated forums which have many pro players participating. I recommend you to pay a visit to p8ntballer, there is a lot of information!

Where the beer is deep. The forest is funny colored. Cloud nine is a thought away.

Posts

2,321

I would like to follow the pros on tv or on the net, or even in a weekly highlights paper that you could subscribe to(HINT HINT COUGH COUGH.. somone should pick up on that one), as of now: the word pro means my local field owner..

me.. i'l read the highlights if they are in what ever mag i am reading... maybe even think what a rush it would be to play a format like that on a regular basis.... then to read in the same mag how the teams almost allways try and bully the ref to make a call they want or to change it so it doesn't hurt them... hearing how much some players wipe and get away with it...(this to me would lead to massive overshooting esp. if the ref(s) were not there right away to make a call)

now granted this may only be a small group of players at this level that do this... but the trickle down effect is there.....
now for the players at that level that are as honest as they come.... we need alot more of them and the morals/ethics/responsibilty whatever you call it to this game

with all this i dont follow the pro scene and probly wont.. for the most part because it has no direct bearing on how/where/with what i play with...

myself i feel that all these "pro" events should not be reffed by teams, but should be reffed by indipents(sp??) that have nothing to do with the sport other then to ref...
of course there are other things i would like to see changed... but thats another story....

I used to play tournament paintball, but got so fed up with all of the cheating and "win-at-all-cost" attitudes of players that I almost stoped playing paintball altogethor.
I only play rec ball now, and love it. I have no interest in tournament paintball. If the sport ever gets "cleaned up" I may get back in or at least watch some of it (if it were televised).
I still play a mean (though honest & obsenitiy free) rec ball game (E-Mag / Warp Feed / etc.).

I don't understand how some of you who have never played with some of these pros, who dont know them personally, can criticize them based on heresy. The truth is many of the top contending teams do get full rides, and some pros in the nipple do get paid. But when you have a full shabang like that, you owe it to your sponsors to produce some results or else your arse is getting the boot. Some of the lower calibur pro and AM A's have to pay their way in and when you're forking out that much money, emotions can run high.

You guys complain about the way they act, how much they cuss and their behavior based on what you've seen them do. Don't judge all of the pros just because you've seen a bad apple or two. Have you ever seen what a football player does when he gets called for holding, encroachment, or pass interference?
I don't personally KNOW any pros but I do constantly play with em and against them. FYI not all of SC Ironmen is located in SC. At least not Micah, Ollie, and Rich. And not all of Dynasty is located in SC as well, at least not Alex, Angel, Johnny, Marcus and maybe a few others. People play this sport for different reasons, and for some of us those reasons have evolved into something different than when we first started.

For me, it's all about making it to the top and winning against the best teams. Right now, I'm on that road and I intend to make it there. It's probably the same reason or motivation that current pros had when they were at my stage. I don't play so I can meet Jimbo Joe Schmoe at the local field. I could care less about him. In fact if he gets in my way, I'm gonna do him like I would anyone else. There is no such thing as surrendering in my book (with the exception of girls and little and I do mean little kids...). Sometimes when you're competing at a level where most of the population can't even begin to ponder, behaviors are altered because of the constant pressure thats on you. I'm thinking most of you have never played against a nippler, much less a pro.

When you do, you remember this message and you'll understand what they have to go up against. People like themselves, and sometimes people who are better than them.

Many of us have had bad experiences with top amateur and pro teams, hence the bashing. I've met some great guys who play top-seed amateur (few pro players up here) and some of them are great people, some aren't, and the bad seem to outway the good. Then again, bad and/or controversial news gets better press, so I suspect the majority of Pro/semi-pro players are good people. No matter how much is riding on your performance, pulling a McEnroe (for you tennis fans) is bad sport, bad for your image and bad for paintballs. Guy's like the Jax Warriors, and the Beach Boyz up here prove that you don't have to be a dick to be a pro, and more pro players have to realize that, or watch the league tours die.

To be totaly honest with you AGD, Pro teams realy mean nothing to me personaly. I have been playing tourney ball for about 4 years now, and have never followed who is who, and what team dose what.

I feel that a player is a player. Getting beat by a pro just means that I was just beat by some one beter or a better team. I have played a few big name amature teams of the years, the most notable was the Jackson warrior 2 years ago at skyball. We also played serveral other at that tourney, and we had fun playing them and learning from them. Yes, I know now we don't want to freight train hte flag off the break, but, heck they where the raining skyball champs, we had to try something.

But back to the pro's, are jsut players too. Some beter then other, but all still players.

Any ways, this is the most I have writen on Ao since becomeing a member, I will stop now.

i might follow the pros better if they werent so "perfect". Maybe if they played with gear thats not top of the line all of the time. maybe use a spyder right outof the box. that would be interesting. it thin it would be awesome to see bob long or that cheeze head tod martinez(whom i lost all interest in in that interview) bunker some one with a spyder compact. that would shoqw thier real amound of skill. that would prove to me that they really are pros and not electro toting spwery and prey players.then they would rank with the altimers like wany gretzkey and michale jordan

Why we never talk about pro teams or pro tournaments...
1) Because you never hear about pro teams(You will never find pro player from Ironman or Jacksonville warriors on AO forum or on any other net forum)
2)Paintball magazines never have any articals about pro tournaments
3)They never show Pro paintball tournaments on tv because they cheat a lot they cuss a lot!!! (exemple:match between two pro team and the only thing you hear is gun shots and beap sound thats blocks cussing)
4)It's hard to follow Pro Tournaments because they are only 5 or 6 big tournaments for the holl season and they are only in the really big citys like Los Angeles or New York or somwhere else.... you got the point(why not have more tournaments in more citys)
5) MANY PEOPLE HERE DON'T CARE OR DON'T FOLLOW PRO WORLD BECUASE OF ALL THE FACTORS THAT I LISTED