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And now that the beginning of the Tetsuya match has Glalie Vs Sceptile, I guess we won't get a Grovyle Vs. Sceptile match either.

Glalie has stolen Grovyle's thunder.

I highly doubt that Glalie will take Sceptile down.
I mean, c'mon, Sceptile is Tetsuya's Trump Card! It can't just go down so quickly. As well as with all these wins, I think Glalie is due for a whooping. If not, then Glalie will have technically not taken a loss this League [as he would have done fine if not for Destiny Bond].

I am happy that Glalie is doing so well this league, but this "Comeback Kid" thing has been taken too far. At least the writers toned it down with Kingler to make it somewhat realistic.

Okay. This battle is totally messed up. What the hell is wrong with Torkoal? It cant even take down a bloody Steelix? I was really hoping that Torkoal would claim the Metang victory and win the battle to get some redemption but, instead it loses with no wins as usual e_e

Corphish took out Swampert with a simple Crabhammer? Man, Swampert has gotten more shaft then Ash's Torkoal in the Whirl Cup. Wow...Corphish really is doing well in this League. Brava...but even I wanted to see a big ass Grovyle/Swampert showdown. *disappointment*

I dont really care that Grovyle or Pikachu fainted. At least Grovyle got ONE win

I really did want to see the Battle Frontier, but seeing what damage it has caused the League by making time for it before the D/P Region, I TAKE IT BACK!!! *cries*

Ok, I liked Onigohri at first, but I'm getting sick of the overgrown hailstone. :P Satoshi caught the thing not even 20 episodes ago, and ever since it evolved it's been this unstoppable powerhouse? What the hell?

I can understand winning a battle or two because of beginner's luck - like Crab for instance - and I was OK with him winning despite an obvious type disadvantage (Heracross did it too after all ^_^), but now he delivers the final blow to defeat Masamune? And he was doing just fine in the Keade battle - the only reason he got knocked out was because of destiny bond. It's just rediculous for a pokémon captured so recently and with virtually no battling experience before the league to be doing so good. Not only that, but it's rather unfair to Satoshi's other pokémon who worked really hard all through the Houen region.

How can you say it has so little battling experience? Sure as a Snorunt it had trouble with Ice Beam but otherwise it was a skilled fighter who went toe-to-toe with Pikachu when it was first captured. We have no real idea of how much experience Snorunt had.

As for Torkoal, it has been getting brushed off a lot. I personally have no problem with it tying with Tropius, since Tropius in the game is one of the most durable Grass types (provided it isn't up against Ice moves), but it is a bit sad to see it lose to a Steelix without taking down any other Pokemon.

I think the writers wanted to show Masumune was good by having him take out a Pokemon using one of his with a type weakness, that seems to be a common theme, to show a trainer is good have them win when the types are against them. And for some reason Torkoal was chosen to demonstrate that. At least being part Ground Steelix also had an advantage, the battles hardly as impossible as you guys are making it out to be. Remember Torkoal's flames mean nothing if it can't hit Steelix with them.

Originally Posted by Cybercubed

I find it amusing that Grovyle, Ash's trump card and one of his strongest pokemon throughout Hoenn, is getting a lot of defeats in this league.

Never mind Torkoal getting shafted in the league (since he was getting shafted throughout the entire region, not just the league), but Grovyle is on a losing streak lately.

How can you say that? Grovyle was one of the main stars in the Kaede battle, and has beaten two other opponents in the league before losing. Hardly what I'd call a losing streak, really it has been handled quite well.

Poor Pikachu... I mean really, except for the match against Hitmonlee its been getting some bad luck going up against a Dugtrio and Steelix.

Corphish takes out half the team... well it is certainly believable given how much battle experience it's gotten lately, AND that Masumune wasn't exactly fighting well.

Still, from the sound of things the Kaede battle is still my favorite for this league so far.

I highly doubt that Glalie will take Sceptile down.
I mean, c'mon, Sceptile is Tetsuya's Trump Card! It can't just go down so quickly. As well as with all these wins, I think Glalie is due for a whooping. If not, then Glalie will have technically not taken a loss this League [as he would have done fine if not for Destiny Bond].

I am happy that Glalie is doing so well this league, but this "Comeback Kid" thing has been taken too far. At least the writers toned it down with Kingler to make it somewhat realistic.

Okay. This battle is totally messed up. What the hell is wrong with Torkoal? It cant even take down a bloody Steelix? I was really hoping that Torkoal would claim the Metang victory and win the battle to get some redemption but, instead it loses with no wins as usual e_e

Corphish took out Swampert with a simple Crabhammer? Man, Swampert has gotten more shaft then Ash's Torkoal in the Whirl Cup. Wow...Corphish really is doing well in this League. Brava...but even I wanted to see a big ass Grovyle/Swampert showdown. *disappointment*

Have we forgotten about Metagross already, which i think is Tetsuya's trump card pokemon, and i hope Glalie does knock it out so we don't have a Grovyle/Secptile showdown, besides what's to stop it, if it beat a Charizard, and a Metang, it very well could deep freeze Sceptile in it's tracks, and if Sceptile was Tetsuya's trump card pokemon why would he use it off the bat.

The way things are shaping up i wonder why the writers gave Torkoal to Ash at all, it hasn't done much since he caught it, and i think that it deserved better.

think of it this way, you can't blame Swampert for going down so quickly, that's Masamunes fault due to the fact he didn't concentrate.

How can you say it has so little battling experience? Sure as a Snorunt it had trouble with Ice Beam but otherwise it was a skilled fighter who went toe-to-toe with Pikachu when it was first captured. We have no real idea of how much experience Snorunt had.

True, but what I was saying is that Satoshi never actually used it except to blast of the Rocket-dan at the grand festival. It may well have been in battles before in the wild, but judging from its inability to use ice beam correctly it was still at a rather low level of experience, and it evolving was just sort of a fluke.

Compared with all of Satoshi's other pokémon I think we could agree that it has had far less experience as far as competitive battles go, so having it win all the time while his more experienced fighters get KO'ed is just wrong. o_o

Still, from the sound of things the Kaede battle is still my favorite for this league so far.

And with good reason.

1. It's been the longest battle we've seen take place in the Hoenn League. Masamune's and Tetsuya's fights start with a single brawl then lead into a new episode, while Kaeda gaves us 3 Pokemon shown from the start. And then it lead into a (nearly) whole episode.

2. Kaeda had some real world style battling impressed onto her. C'mon, switching for type advantages, Destiny Bond, annoyance tactics. She gave us a good fight that was believable.

3. Not so much the fight itself, but the dissmal competition from the other fights. Hyuuga's was good, but not great. Tomono's short-changed Torkoal again. Masamune's double battle was thrilling at least, but that was only because of Gligar. And Masamune vs. Ash was disappointing. We didn't even get to see one of Ash's near the beginning. So, there isn't that much to compete with.

Guys... I don't think anyone's seen the episode yet. The stuff I saw posted wasn't exactly a summary of the whole battle, it was from a Japanese message board and could have been just a list of how each one won or lost throughout this battle. Seriously, if ONLY the stuff I mentioned in my post happened, and nothing else, the battle would only last about 10 minutes, not even 15. And a whole 10-15 minutes of just talking to Tetsuya and pre-battle stuff just seems unrealistic, considering how little we see of the start of the fight.

I'd wait for someone who's seen the episode to post before making judgements just yet.

Sadly, it seems Ash will always have a Pokemon that gets the shaft in each league. In Kanto, it was Pidgeotto, in Johto it was Phanpy and now in Hoenn it's Torkoal's turn, which is a shame because I really like that Pokemon, even though it's only had three wins since Ash caught it (Steelix, Scizor, Lombre).

Hopefully next week we'll get Torkoal vs. Metagross and the writers will let the turtle get some glory back!

Torkoal got to shine in the battle with Tropius, yes it had a draw but Ashs Bulbasaur had a draw with Meganium, they shined because they were a match for such strong Pokemon its just Corphish shined more in that episode

Don't kill me for saying this but I think that the anime has plans for Torkoal. Think about all the pokemon Ash has had that don't evolve, like Heracross, Lapras and Snorlax (well technically) what do they all have in common? They're all power houses, while Torkoal is on the same level as those weak pokemon that don't evolve who get boxed in the games and only caught for the sake of the 'dex. Dare I say this... one word, they're gonna pull a... Manyula... me thinks anyway.

Although this episode sounds interesting, if I'm honest I'm a little dissapointed at some of the match ups... like Gligar defeated Grovyle and Corphish hammering Swampert.

Torkoal got to shine in the battle with Tropius, yes it had a draw but Ashs Bulbasaur had a draw with Meganium, they shined because they were a match for such strong Pokemon its just Corphish shined more in that episode

The difference is, Bulbasuar had 2 freakin' series of the animé to battle, was used frequently and usually came out on top. Torkoal taking a draw against Tropius is hardly any sort of redemption for all the losses and lack of any decent battles. If Torkoal were to ever 'shine', it would be in a match were it puts up a long, hard fight and comes out on top. Not a tie, not a loss, but a win~

Originally Posted by IMPERIAL DRAGON

...while Torkoal is on the same level as those weak pokemon that don't evolve who get boxed in the games and only caught for the sake of the 'dex. Dare I say this... one word, they're gonna pull a... Manyula... me thinks anyway.

Forgive my total ignorance for in-game stats but...is Torkoal really so weak that it warrants an evolution? From using it in my game and beating a few E4 pokemon with it, I'd always assumed it made for a pretty good tank :/

Well put it this way... you can use a Pichu to take down a Dragonite in the games so pretty much any pokemon can be used in battle but the point is Torkoal isn't on the same level of power as the likes of Heracross. Stats wise, Sneasel has a total base stat amount of 430 and that's now got an evolution, while Torkoal has only 470 combined base stats so it's not that powerful so an evolution is possible. Look at Golbat, it's got 455 combined base stats which isn't much less than Torkoal so it is kinda possible. All I'm saying is that Torkoal is unique because all of Ash's other pokemon that don't evolve are much more powerful in general.

Torkoal beat Slakoth win one hit during the Petalburg Gym Battle...not that I think he hasn't gotten screwed, just to mention that there is something to add to the above list of wins..and yes, I realize this was after Slakoth spent a lot of time battling with Pikachu, but still, Torkoal finished the job properly

The difference is, Bulbasuar had 2 freakin' series of the animé to battle, was used frequently and usually came out on top. Torkoal taking a draw against Tropius is hardly any sort of redemption for all the losses and lack of any decent battles. If Torkoal were to ever 'shine', it would be in a match were it puts up a long, hard fight and comes out on top. Not a tie, not a loss, but a win

3 accully, Bulbasaur was the 2nd longest Pokemon to be in Ashs team. Also Torkoals had many appearences, hes not battled in all of them in fact most Torkoal appearences he was just there. It shined in this episode because it had a draw with a powerful Pokemon like Bulbasaur with Meganium or even Grovyles win against Slaking.

Have you guys actually seen the episode? I haven't, that's why I'm not jumping to any conclusions yet. And about Torkoal being shafted: Too bad for Torkoal and its lovers (sorry about that Torkoal Stu), but at least ONE pokemon has to perform badly in the league. It would be incredibly boring and unreal if every pokemon got equal number of wins and losses. If some pokemon get more wins, that means less wins for some other pokemon, it's pretty inevitable. In Kanto it was Pidgeotto, in Johto it was Phanpy/Totodile/Noctowl etc. In Hoenn it was bound to be either Corphish or Torkoal. Turns out that Corphish is Ash's powerhouse (score-wise: 4 wins 1 draw 1 loss), and Pikachu got shafted (YAY!) as well as Torkoal.

Grovyle, Corphish and Swellow getting an ample amount of spotlight is good. Grovyle isn't the second Charizard like some people suspected, and Swellow has broken the old tradition that bird pokemon should perform horribly in the league.

Corphish.... Corphish.... so people, do you still think that Corphish should evolve into Crawdaunt because it's not strong enough?

I think I'm the only one in the forums that is pretty satisfied with the results.

Don't worry, Torkoal probably will get some decent spotlight against Tetsuya. I'm sure of it.

But Torkoal has done well in like three battles I can name off my head. Scizor in the drake epsiode, Slakoth in the firth battle and against Tropius. So i'm hoping for some spotlight in the battle against Tetsuya.

But frednmethod your right about one having to be the weakest and constant hints were goving though out hoenn due to it only having one gym battle.

But I don't see the point of Ash having one anymore, however they have given MAJOR possiblities for Torkoal such as

Metang
Shiftry
Venomoth
Skarmory(If Winnona had used it)
Scizor(Last battle against the girl)

Except Sneasel always pretty much sucked, which was why it needed an evolution, hopefully they'll rearrange its stats so it can take advantage of some friggin' STAB or give it more defense so it can take a hit...Torkoal is very playable on it's own, and I know I'm not the only one who got my *** handed to me by Flannery's Overheating Torkoal early on. The point is, Torkoal, game-wise, is fine. Ash's Torkoal doesn't seem to be able to pull its weight like the others, but it doesn't seem to be a problem, as they haven't actually addressed it on the show.

Personally, I'm content with the Hoenn League. I wasn't expecting some 20 episode story-arc, nor was I expecting any surprise evolutions. I just wanted to see Ash's Pokemon duke it out in some tough battles. I don't see Masamune as another Gary. Hell, they're nothing alike at all. Their only similarity is the match number Ash faces him at. Moreso, I like Masamune's team, despite the fact that the Pokemon I wanted to see battle the most, Girafarig and Growlithe didn't do so well. As for Tetsuya, He has enough of a past, and we've seen him battling to at least make him believable. He has a badass Meowth, and his team isn't full of super powered up Pokemon. Hell, the only reason Harrison was even worth a damn to anyone was because he had a Blaziken. Take away Blaziken, and the rest of his team was "meh".

The only problem with this battle I'm having is that Swampert was KOed by Corphish. I mean, is it me, or is Corphish a savage in this league?! He's wiped out enough Pokemon to skip the Crawdaunt stage and turn into Mewtwo! XD I'm glad Corphish is getting his revenge, but I wanted to see Swampert power through some of Ash's Pokemon. But then again, it's nice to see a 3rd stage Starter Pokemon that isn't godly in power.

frednmethod mentioned that Noctowl got shafted in Johto, which I can't say I totally agree with....it won nearly the entire Morty battle by itself with this outta-nowhere super-powerful psychic attack...it just blew in the battle against Harrison because it was up against a Steelix...but Phanpy I totally agree with, that little cutie didn't get enough airtime at all

Corphish.... Corphish.... so people, do you still think that Corphish should evolve into Crawdaunt because it's not strong enough?

The only reason I preferred it was because I thought it would have been left out (well I guess Torkoal gets that honor now...damn writers). I was thinking about it the other day. Crawdaunt can't be the easiest thing to draw and make move around. Plus as a Corphish it seems to have more agility (not the speed move) to manuver (that doesn't look right) than Crawdaunt would.

Before you flame me for the writers not making Squirtle, Totodile, or Cyndaquil evolve, I'm sorry, but I can't figure that one out. The way I see it Squirtle and Cyndaquil should have evolved.