Amazing Race's Idries and Jamil: It Was Hard Getting Over Our Fear of Waterby Joyce Eng

Idries and Jamil were thrown into the deep end on Sunday's Amazing Race. The twin brothers and OB/GYNs were forced to confront their fear of water when both Detour options took place underwater in Bora Bora. They struggled and eventually came in last. But before you chastise them for breaking two of Race's cardinal rules (know how to drive stick shift and know how to swim), know that the twins did take swimming lessons before the show. So what happened?

Do you know how far behind you were?Idries: We didn't know how far behind we were, but we knew we were last. But we didn't know if we were on anybody's heels or just totally out of it.

When was the last time you saw a team?Idries: I think it was while we were still going for the pearls. After that, we didn't see any other teams. When we did the table Detour underwater, we didn't see any other teams there and we didn't see any evidence of teams at the stilts either.Jamil: It's hard to say how long [we were at the Detours], but I would guess we were trying to do the pearls for two-and-a-half hours. The chest one was quick. That took, like, 10 minutes. [Laughs]

Do you regret not doing the chest first?Jamil: Yeah, and that was our original intention. We were thinking we were going to do the chest thing first. It's kind of funny. In Season 18 finale, when they were riding bikes underwater, that's what I was picturing. Then I thought we should do the chest and when we did the chest, it was quick, so I was like, "Oh, my God! We should've done this first."

Jen from that season had a fear of water too. Where did yours come from? Did you never learn how to swim? Did you think you could go through the Race without a water task?Jamil: Our fear of water is from childhood. The way we learned how to swim was at day camp and they just threw us in the deep end and we had to sink or swim. So ever since then, I was afraid of water and we didn't actually learn to swim until we were teenagers. And we knew we would probably have some water tasks, so we took swimming classes before so we could be somewhat OK in the water. For me, it was more a fear of being in the open water. I don't care about a swimming pool, but the ocean freaks me out. If you watch, when we had to, we were swimming. It was just getting over that emotional fear of that deep mass of ocean that was hard.

So all your swimming lessons were in the pool?Jamil: Pretty much!Idries: We live nowhere near a swimmable body of water. Just Lake Michigan, [and] the only people in there are not alive! [Laughs] We didn't have much of a choice!

You considered taking the Detour penalty first. How serious were you about that?Jamil: I think fear played a role, but I was also trying to strategize. If we think [swimming] is our limitation, maybe it's better to take the penalty instead of [wasting] two hours trying to do it and then take the penalty, which would be eight hours total we'd lose as opposed to six.Idries: I didn't want to do that because A) a six-hour penalty would kills us and B) I felt like it was something we could do. I knew we wouldn't do it as fast as everybody else, but I knew we wouldn't die out there. [Laughs] So I figured, let's just do it and if it takes us three times as long as anybody else, at least we did it. I don't quit in life.

Were you aware that Max and Katie, and the country singers were behind from their penalty last leg?Idries: Yeah, that was our thought process going into it. We knew they were like two hours behind, so I figured we could play around for like an hour or so since we had a little bit of a buffer.

You came up with the Express Pass plan last leg. (The first team givesthe second Pass to the second team in that group.) Were you surprised to see John and Jessica wavering?Jamil: I wasn't surprised. They wanted to do what they thought was fair. The reason we came up with that plan was because if we came in first, we didn't want to be in that position of choosing between teams, so we came up with that agreement so nobody's feelings would get hurt or take it personally. It was a little surprising to see them wavering, but it is a competition, so we understand.Would you have kept your word?Idries: Absolutely! I think your word is your bond. I kind of wavered before we started the Race between being totally upright and doing things because it's a game. At the end of the day, I think my main thing was, I knew my wife would be watching, my kids would be watching and our patients would be watching. So, it wouldn't have been worth it to go against my word.

What are you up to now?Idries: Sitting here at work! Playing on the computer. [Laughs]Jamil: We're back at work, seeing patients.

No more swimming in oceans?Jamil: [Laughs] I'm planning on being out there and conquering that fear. I'm seeing if you can go out to some tropical environment and learn ocean-swimming.Idries: You heard it here first. In a couple of years, we'll be back! [Laughs]

The "Twin Doctors" became the second team eliminated from the around-the-world competition after they arrived at the Race's second Pit Stop at Motu Tapu, the most photographed island in the South Pacific, in last place. They had struggled with a Detour task in the deep ocean, fell behind from there and just couldn't seem to ever catch up.

In an exclusive interview with Reality TV World on Monday, Idries and Jamil talked about their short-lived The Amazing Race experience and what exactly went wrong prior to their ouster. Below is the first half of the twins' interview. Check back with Reality TV World on Tuesday for the concluding portion.

Reality TV World: How far behind Pamela Chien and Winnie Sung do you think you guys finally arrived at the Pit Stop?Idries Abdur-Rahman: It's hard to say, but I would guess probably no more than like 30-45 minutes. It's just a guess.

Reality TV World: When you guys arrived at the Pit Stop, did you have a pretty good idea you were in last place or were you still thinking there was a chance to finish in eighth or ninth place or something?Jamil Abdur-Rahman: I knew pretty much that there was no way we were anything else but last. So I pretty much knew going into it.

Idries Abdur-Rahman: Yeah, I knew because when Jamil was doing the challenge with the stilts, and I don't want to discourage him, but I kind of started counting the stilts at the end -- you know, where people had left them -- and I knew based on that, that either they got really creative and left some extra stilts or we were behind. But I didn't say anything, because I didn't see the point.

Reality TV World: Did you two have hope it would be a non-elimination leg or did you just kind of feel discouraged at the end of the leg, like your time in the Race was just kind of up?Idries Abdur-Rahman: Of course you always hope, as every Racer does coming in last, that it's a non-elimination leg. But from just watching previous seasons, I've rarely found them happen that early on. So I was pretty doubtful it would be a non-elimination leg. But you always have that little glimmer like, "Come on [host Phil Keoghan], say it's a non-elimination leg." Like, cut! Take two!

Reality TV World: How long did it end up taking you guys to complete the "Pick a Pearl" task?Jamil Abdur-Rahman: (Laughs) It took us about two hours I would say and basically what happened was, as they showed last night, we had dropped a few of the oysters to begin with.

And we basically [wiped] all the oysters clean and we only found on pearl, so we realized there's one at the bottom of the ocean. (Laughs) We could not get down there to get it, so I would say we were there for about two hours before we realized that we had to go do the second task of the Detour.

Reality TV World: Jamil, so it sounds like it was the task itself that proved to be very difficult rather than a struggle to swim efficiently on your part, right? Is that accurate to say?Jamil Abdur-Rahman: To an extent. I mean, I sensed that my fear of the water was still the main issue, because even though I can swim, I'm afraid of deep, open water. And so for a long time, I didn't even want to get in. And when I finally did get in, I'll be honest, I was scared.

So I think that when you get scared, you get tunnel vision. And so, we didn't -- I didn't at least -- neither one of us I don't feel attacked the task properly instead of taking each line. We first started by taking individual oysters, and that's just because we weren't thinking. We were nervous.

And that's what resulted in us dropping one of the oysters. So I feel like indirectly, it was that fear of the water that cost us in the end because we weren't thinking too clearly. But it wasn't an inability to swim. Because I was telling people, if you watched, we both swam. I just didn't want to get in that water at all.

Reality TV World: Idries, you obviously shared that fear, correct? Because the show showed you refusing a couple times to try the Pearl task when Jamil was insisting he wouldn't be able to accomplish it. Idries Abdur-Rahman: No, I mean, I definitely do share that fear of water. But I kind of hopped in there and told him, "Let's get in. The water's not too bad." But I mean, yeah, I'm not a huge fan of water myself. Like he said, I can swim. I'm not going to die out there, but I'm just not a huge fan of open bodies of endless water. It's just not my thing.

Reality TV World: Why did you guys decide to do that task to begin with instead of the "Take a Trunk" one?Idries Abdur-Rahman: It's kind of funny. When we were at the priest, initially we said we were going to do the "Pick a Pearl," but then when we were on the boat, we were kind of talking about it with one another and what I kind of pictured in my mind was from Season 19, the last leg when they were in Florida and they were kind of riding around on those bicycles underwater and had those respirators on.

I told Jamil, "If we're walking on the bottom of the ocean floor, we clearly have to have some kind of respirator." So we, at that point, kind of changed our minds and said, "We want to go ahead and do the Trunk." But the thing is, they were in the same place. If remember reading the clue, it said "the bay" -- I don't remember what bay it was.

So then there was really no way to discern where the trunks were and where the pearls were. So when we got there, we could clearly see the lines of pearls, and I remember Jamil looked over the boat and said, "Oh, there's a trunk!"

But then when we started moving, we were like, "No, that's not a trunk. That's just a swimmer." So we were like, "Well we don't know where these trunks are." I asked the guy, like, "Take us to the trunks" -- or I said, "Take us to the bay." And he said, "We're here." And I was like, "Well I don't see any trunks. So let's just hit the pearls."

Reality TV World: So how long did it take you to actually complete the "Take a Trunk" task? You guys said on the show you got through it fairly quickly.Jamil Abdur-Rahman: Oh yeah, that's what killed. I think maybe 10 minutes -- maybe 10 minutes to do the trunks. It was easy. That just burned even more.

Reality TV World: Oh wow, so if you had opted to do the "Take a Trunk" task in the first place, how do you think it would've changed the course of events for you guys? Do you have any idea what place you might've been able to finish in considering how you ran the rest of that leg?Idries Abdur-Rahman: I think if we had done the trunk task, I think we would've probably come in second or third, because if we would've finished it in 10 minutes like we did, we would've been ahead of everybody that did the pearls.

And so, you know, there was only one other team initially that did the trunks, so we would've kind of been neck and neck with them. So it would've come down to a whole stilt race, but we definitely would've been one of the top teams.

Reality TV World: That must be a crushing feeling.Jamil Abdur-Rahman: It is, just a little bit. (Laughs)

Reality TV World: So Jamil, how long did it take you to complete the stilts Roadblock task? And was it as difficult as it appeared to be?Jamil Abdur-Rahman: I think it took me about half an hour. And it was -- I thought it was really difficult. I think it was a little bit tougher for me just because we had been swimming for three hours.

And so, I was already exhausted and my feet actually were soft because I had been in the water so long. And so, my feet got cut up, and it was really tough. I was physically and emotionally just drained, but it was tough. But I don't think I was doing it for more than half an hour.

Above is the first half of our exclusive interview with Jamil and Idries. Check back with Reality TV World on Tuesday for the concluding portion.

This week on The Amazing Race 22, twin OB/GYN doctors Idries and Jamil Abdur-Rahman were the second team eliminated from competition in Bora Bora.

Although the doctor brothers from Chicago survived the first leg of The Amazing Race in the Season 22 premiere, Idries and Jami found themselves in tougher than expected in ther second leg this week. When the twins were forced to dive for oysters, the deep waters of Bora Bora proved to be a little too much for the OB/GYN physicians from the Windy City.

After a late switch of tasks, however, Idries and Jamil eventually completed the detour but hit the mat in last place to become the second team eliminated from the new season of The Amazing Race.

The following day, The Deadbolt caught up with Idries and Jamil Abdur-Rahman to get their post-race thoughts, how they overcome the tropical waters of Bora Bora, and what the doctors thought when their Amazing Race cover was blown.

THE DEADBOLT: Although you were eliminated, how cool was it to run The Amazing Race in Bora Bora?IDRIES ABDUR-RAHMAN: Oh god, just to be on The Amazing Race was an unbelievable experience. Then to do it in such a phenominal place was even better. It was cool. It was great.

THE DEADBOLT: How long did the second underwater challenge take as compared to the first?IDRIES: The second one took us about ten minutes. The first one was anywhere from two to three hours. I’m ballparking that one, but the second one was much faster.

THE DEADBOLT: Jamil, what exactly was it with the water that you couldn’t do?JAMIL ABDUR-RAHMAN: I don’t know if it was anything that I couldn’t do necessarily. I’m not real comfortable in the water. In the swimming pool, I’m fine with things like that. But the open, deep water, I’m not real comfortable.

I wasn’t comfortable getting in the water. So when I realized that our challenge was going to require me to get in the water and be in there a long time, I was concerned with whether we’d be able to actually do it.

THE DEADBOLT: Idries, as a teammate, what options did you have at that point?IDRIES: Well, there weren’t a whole bunch of options. It was either talking him into the water and get him to do it with me or doing it by myself. The third option, which we should have exercised earlier, was doing the other end of the detour.

THE DEADBOLT: Going into the race, how important was it for you guys to quickly form alliances, especially with the second express pass?JAMIL: I thought it was pretty important right off the bat, especially with the second express pass. I felt that if we weren’t the first team to reach the mat after leg one with the first or second express pass, we’d have an alliance with the team that did have it. So, forming an alliance for that reason was important.

But also I felt that if we were the first team to the mat and we had the first express pass and the second express pass, we didn’t want to be in a position where we had to choose one team over another. That would only leave hard feelings. During a long race, you don’t want to have a bunch of folks who are upset with you.

We thought that by making the proposal and forming that alliance, it took a lot of the pressure off of everybody. No one would look at the decisions with the express pass and ask, “Why did you choose this team versus that team?” They’d all know we made an agreement and we were just abiding by the agreement. So, we felt that it took a lot of the stress out of the process.

THE DEADBOLT: How surprised were you that Pamela and Winnie didn’t believe your delivery men story?IDRIES: You know, honestly, I wasn’t too surprised. We hadn’t really fleshed it that well amongst each other. We said that we’ll just say we’re delivery men. I didn’t expect them to say, “oh, who do you deliver for?” and keep going with it. We’re pretty bad liars, so I wasn’t too surprised they didn’t believe it.

JAMIL: I kind of thought we might be able to pull it off just because technically we are delivery men, we deliver babies. At least if we say that, we’re not totally lying and maybe we’ll be able to pull it off a little bit more. But Winnie was right at us with, “who do you deliver for? Are you lying?” We were like, “oh, wow!”

THE DEADBOLT: How was the race harder than what you expected going into the season?JAMIL: The thing I didn’t necessarily anticipate was that there would be sleep deprivation and there would be stress. I felt like we were prepared for that. But the thing that I didn’t anticipate was just how much of a factor that would play.

In the second leg of the race, when we were doing the oysters, that lack of sleep along with fear really gave us tunnel vision. So we approached the task kind of incorrectly. Instead of pulling the entire rope, we’d pull one oyster at a time.

I think that was the one thing I didn’t prepare for was how the fear and lack of sleep gives you tunnel vision and you can’t think as clearly as when you’re at home watching the show on TV.

IDRIES: You don’t think outside the box. The title of the challenge was “Pick a Pearl,” so I was picking a pearl. I didn’t think that I could take the whole line of pearls. It’s just that you get tunnel vision.

I didn't like them from their edit in the first episode and so it didn't really make me feel anything to see them gone. I think their actions were going faster than their senses, and that's probably partially 'cause of their fear of water. However, something tells me that if the race didn't start out in islands like Bora Bora, they would've been sneakier in a way that would make me super hate them because when they were in America going to Bora Bora, I didn't like what they were doing (how conniving they seemed to be).

I didn't like them from their edit in the first episode and so it didn't really make me feel anything to see them gone. I think their actions were going faster than their senses, and that's probably partially 'cause of their fear of water. However, something tells me that if the race didn't start out in islands like Bora Bora, they would've been sneakier in a way that would make me super hate them because when they were in America going to Bora Bora, I didn't like what they were doing (how conniving they seemed to be).

I agree. I was actually already starting to get sick of them. They seemed to have trouble at just about every task, but I agree that it probably would have turned out a lot differently if they had raced, say, the route of Season 13.

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"The authority of example and considerations of character, unlike pudding, are not whipped up in an instant." - Neal A. Maxwell

'Amazing Race': Idries and Jamil on Whether They Should Have Taken the Penaltyby Kimberly Nordyke

The twin doctors talk with THR about their struggles with the challenge and why they didn't do the other detour sooner.Idries and Jamil Abdur-Rahman

The water challenge proved to be the downfall for The Amazing Race competitors Idries and Jamil Abdur-Rahman in Sunday night's episode.

The Chicago-based brothers, 35, were eliminated in the second leg of the CBS reality competition's 22th cycle. The leg included a detour that called for the teams to harvest pearls from oysters or dive to the ocean floor to collect a trunk and use the contents inside to construct an underwater picnic table.

Idries and Jamil, who initially chose the pearl harvesting, admitted that water challenges were not their strong suit and even debated taking a penalty and forgoing the challenge. Instead, they eventually gave up on the pearls and decided to take a try at the treasure chests. While they found that much easier, they had lost too much time and came in last place.

On Monday, the duo talked with The Hollywood Reporter about their struggles with the challenges and whether they should have taken the penalty.

The Hollywood Reporter: It looked like you debated taking the penalty for some time [Idries didn't want to, while Jamil did]. How long were actually talking about it?Idries Abdur-Rahman: It wasn't too long. It took at the most maybe five minutes. It was a quick back and forth and then we decided, "Let's get going."

Jamil Abdur-Rahman: We spent more time after we decided to do [the challenge] just getting in the water and doing it.

THR: Why did you want to take the penalty so badly, Jamil?Jamil: My concern was I just didn't know if [the challenge] was something we were capable of doing, and we didn't want to spend a couple of hours doing something and realizing we couldn't do it and then having to take the penalty. I would be better to recognize our limitations right away. I didn't think about the fact that we could just do the other detour at that time.

THR: It looked like the other detour ended up being a lot easier for you.Idries: It definitely was a lot easier for us. In retrospect, we'd do that one over again.

Jamil: And I think if we had taken the penalty, we'd have been further behind than we ended up being, so I'm not sure that would have been the best approach. Moving on to the other detour would have definitely been to our advantage.

THR: When did you finally get the idea to do the other detour?Idries: We had [opened all the oysters] but only found one red pearl. We realized we must have dropped the other one [the teams needed to find two to get their next clue and move on] and then realized we could do the other detour.

THR: Would you go back on The Amazing Race if asked?Jamil: We would do it again in a heartbeat. For the first 24 to 48 hours after we got home, that's all I was thinking about.

Idries: [We're moving, so] I didn't even unpack my bag, and I told my mom I was going to leave it packed so one day I could do it again and redeem myself.

I know that there are lots of comments in the cyber-world about Jamil and I and our time on The Amazing Race and in Bora Bora and that’s cool, neither of us expected anything less. Of course a lot of the comments are negative and again that’s not unexpected. There are some people that are going to say negative things no matter what and that’s okay but for the others I’m going to say this.

Jamil and I are getting flamed because people think that we should never have gone on The Amazing Race if we did not know how to swim. The argument being that if there is something that you can’t do or something that you are afraid of, why even go on the show? I will agree that neither of us like the water and that neither of us are the best swimmers. I don’t see having a fear of ANYTHING as being a valid reason for not going on The Amazing Race or for attempting to realize any dream in life. Everyone has a fear of something be it water, heights, the dark, insects, tights spaces, etc… Humans have fears, that’s just a fact of life. A fear is strictly an emotion, strictly a feeling until you decide to let it dictate your behavior, until you let it dictate what you do and do not do in life. Once you give it that much power then all bets are off and it starts to control and limit your life. Those who think you should not live your life because of fears are going to miss out on a lot of life and they are going to set a pathetic example for their children or for anyone else who may be looking up to them.

Jamil and I can swim (and we did swim), but we both have a fear of open, deep water. We took refresher swimming lessons before leaving for the race but that does not eradicate your fear. I would never let a fear of deep water keep me from doing The Amazing Race or from doing anything else in my life that I wanted to do. Fears will not dictate my life. Between you and me, I also have a fear of heights, spiders as well as a bit of claustrophobia. To face my fear of heights I’ve decided to go skydiving twice, to face my fear of spiders I kept a Tarantula as a pet and while I’d like to face my fear of closed in places I have no intention of living in a closet anytime soon (but if I had to face that fear I would as well). I’m not an expert swimmer and probably never will be but that would not stop me from doing The Amazing Race again, from going snorkeling or from doing anything else in life that I want to do. Life is about facing your fears. We faced ours then and I will continue to face mine every opportunity that I have. Those that took that message from our trials and tribulations in the water great, those who want to continue to criticize us because we have fears of the water go ahead. But in the end, I hope that everyone who reads this or saw us on TV (supporter or otherwise) when faced with one of their fears, they will face it and overcome it. Criticize us if you will but we faced our fears and we faced them on national TV no less and I’m proud of the fact that we faced our fears head on and we finished our task.

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The Amazing Race 22: Exclusive Interview with Idries and Jamil Abdur-RahmanPosted on 02/26/2013 by Gina in The Amazing Race and Cast Interviews

by Gina Scarpa

Note to self: If I'm ever cast on The Amazing Race, don't tell the crew anything I am afraid of or wouldn't want to do because you know it's going to pop up in a Detour or Road Block somewhere along the way. Idries and Jamil made it clear that they weren't comfortable in open water and in the second leg, they faced a Detour in the waters of Bora Bora that cost them the race. Despite struggling with an underwater Detour, they finished all the tasks along the leg and checked in at the pit stop, where Phil let them know that they were eliminated. We talked to the twin doctors in an exclusive interview about not only facing their fear of water but of leaving the race way before they ever hoped.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Which one of you wanted to be on The Amazing Race more?A. Idries: You know it's funny. I've been a fan literally since season 1. I loved every episode, every season. Jamil would watch sometimes, he'd start and stop. I've always wanted to apply but I wasn't sure, "Do I do it with my wife? Do I do it with my brother?" Finishing medical school, starting a job, having a baby - there was just never a right time to apply until now.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Idries, how did you decide on running the race with Jamil as opposed to your wife or someone else?A. Idries: My wife and I always talked about it and she thought I'd have a better chance with my brother. She said, "You guys work together well and can do this!"

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Obviously, you guys were not comfortable with the water. Knowing that, did you do any preparation before going onto The Amazing Race?A. Idries: Yeah, I can swim. I do swim. But knowing we'd probably have to do something in the water, and not being super comfortable with it, I took some swimming classes at the Y.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: We saw in the first episode that an alliance was forming between several teams and I was wondering, is that a good idea so early on?A. Idries: In some ways, I think that forming an alliance on the first leg is too early because you haven't had time to feel people out. On the other hand, that's the time to do it. We really weren't sure if we were ever going to form an alliance. The reason we did and the reason we did so early was because the opportunity presented itself.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Of the teams in your alliance, who did you feel you could trust the most?A. Idries: I would've said Pam and Winnie, or Dave and Connor. Dave is like a father figure, so I didn't think he'd stab us in the back. Pam and Winnie, we told them our real professions on day one and they didn't tell anyone.A. Jamil: Those are the two main teams, but I found them all trustworthy.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: It was interesting to see teams abandon the Road Block in that first leg and it didn't seem like a good idea, given the penalty associated with it. What was your take on it?A. Idries: I thought that was still a mistake. Even in the second leg, when Jamil wanted to take the penalty, I was just opposed to doing it. A. Jamil: I almost look at it the opposite way. If you think about it, there were 400 sandcastles. Do the math, you could be out there forever! You realize there's only 3 clues left, you can see it. I don't know that I would've done it because you don't know what's coming next or what you're getting yourself into. But I could see it.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Do you know how long the two of you were at the Detour in the second leg?A. Idries: We don't know for sure but we're guesstimating 2-3 hours.

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: It was great to see you both finish each task on the leg, even though you knew you were far behind. Was there any discussion about whether or not to continue on or throw in the towel?A. Jamil: We didn't have a conversation about it at all. We both knew that there wouldn't be a circumstance where you could voluntarily give up. You don't want your family, your patients, the world seeing you like that.A. Idries: I would drag him across that finish line if I had to!

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: When you arrived at the mat, you had to know it probably wasn't a non-elimination leg being how early it was in the race but you can't help but be hopeful...A. Idries: I was 99.9% sure that it was going to be an elimination leg but of course, like you said, you're holding out hope. Of course, it's disappointing. You see your preparation go up in smoke so it's devastating in the moment, but I wasn't surprised. I will survive!

Q. Gina, RealityWanted: Did being on the show inspire you to travel to new places?A. Idries: I mean, I love to travel anyway! I thought about Bora Bora but the sting is a little too raw right now. Our anniversary is coming in May and we decided on the Maldives, and we saw that one the show.A. Jamil: I don't know that it inspired me to go to Bora Bora, but I did take away things from the entire process. When we ran to the mat, I was getting a little emotional. People were asking if I was crying because I had lost. What had happened was while I was struggling on the stilts, I had said, "There's no way I am giving up!" I was hot, tired, and my feet were cut up. I thought of my grandparents who helped raise me and I said, "Please help me!" It was hot! And all of a sudden, there was a breeze and I just knew. I did it! I felt like something extraordinary had happened out there.

Two former Amazing Race contestants have filed an employment discrimination lawsuit against an Ottawa hospital, alleging they were not hired because of their race and religion.

Twin brothers Idries and Jamil Abdur-Rahman, who practice obstetrics and gynecology, claim they were not hired by the OSF Saint Elizabeth Medical Center in northern Illinois because they are Muslim African-Americans who practice Islam.

According to the suit, the Abdur-Rahmans worked for the Community Hospital of Ottawa, later renamed the Ottawa Regional Hospital & Healthcare Center, on an independent contractor basis while maintaining their own practice. In May 2012, Ottowa Regional merged with OSF Healthcare System, and changed its name to OSF Saint Elizabeth Medical Center.

Following the merger, the brothers were asked to sign an agreement to abide by “Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services” as physicians at OSF Saint Elizabeth, should they be employed by the group. At a meeting in July 2012, the president and Chief Medical Officer of OSF Medical Group allegedly told the Abdur-Rahmans the hospital would make an “impressive offer to hire them,” following a verbal assurance that the brothers would abide by the ethical and religious directives.

In December of 2012, the Abdur-Rahmans were told that the hospital had decided not to hire them, with one reason being that the brothers were “unlikely to abide by” the religious and ethical directives.

The lawsuit alleges two counts of violation of Title VII for failure to hire because of religion and race, and two counts of violation of the Illinois Human Rights Act for failure to hire because of religion and race.

Brianne Riley, spokesperson for the hospital, said in a statement that though it is not their policy to comment on pending litigation, “OSF Saint Elizabeth Medical Center is confident that it has fully complied with all federal and state discrimination laws while providing high-quality health care throughout the region.”

Riley said the Illinois Department of Human Rights dismissed the claims, finding a “lack of susbstantial evidence” to support the allegations.

“OSF Saint Elizabeth Medical Center is and remains committed to serving all who come through its doors with the greatest care and love,” the statement said.

Jamil and Idries Abdur-Rahman competed in season 22 of “The Amazing Race,” traveling to Los Angeles and Bora Bora in the South Pacific during November and December of 2012.

The season premiere was broadcast in February 2013, with the first leg seeing the brothers finish eighth out of 11 teams. They were eliminated in week two after finishing last in a competition that featured open-water swimming, which both brothers confessed to leery of in an interview following the broadcast.

The Adbur-Rahman brothers grew up in Chicago and graduated from Kenwood High School. The 37-year-old twins both studied at Rush Medical College-Rush University and currently practice obstetrics and gynecology with the Vista Physicians Group.

Idries Abdur-Rahman of Grayslake practices out of Vista offices in Lindenhurst and Waukegan, while Jamil, of Barrington,who is also a retired captain with the U.S. Army Reserves, practices in Lindenhurst and Zion.

Representatives from OSF Saint Elizabeth Medical Center could not be reached for comment Wednesday evening.

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"The Amazing Race shows the best and worst out of you. But if only negative things are shown, then it's probably you. - Jobby"

Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

Since US healthcare can be a difficult thing to understand, and it is clear from your comment that you have some significant misunderstanding of the systems, I think we will leave this on the table from here on out. We do not get into religious or political debates at RFF. No further comments please.

Thanks.

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RFF's Golden Rule:Have RESPECT for each other, regardless of opinion. This of course includes no flaming/insulting other users and/or their posts.

Interesting. I never fully understood medicine and religious combinations. Why is a hospital "Catholic"? If it was a separate private practicing-Catholicism organization, different story, but as a healthcare entity they definitely can't discriminate in hiring...my guess is, considering they're already doctors, they don't really care that much about not getting hired and it's a money grab.

Since US healthcare can be a difficult thing to understand, and it is clear from your comment that you have some significant misunderstanding of the systems, I think we will leave this on the table from here on out. We do not get into religious or political debates at RFF. No further comments please.

Thanks.

Understood about not getting into things. But I am American and do work in a healthcare setting actually, so I found that comment to be a little offensive :/ And if discussion on the matter isn't promoted, that's understandable too, but then I believe the post with the article in it should be deleted.

Tell you what. You read what Jamil actually sent to his patients, then perhaps you will understand a little better. This was never a "money-grab".

Jamil Abdur-Rahman ·

Quote

Thanks everybody for this page and for your kind words of support. My brother and I really wanted to have an opportunity to speak with our patients directly either in person, by phone or by letter rather than to have them hear about our future plans from other people. But we understand that word spreads quickly. The last 7 years here in Ottawa/Streator have been great. You all have allowed us to care for you and for many of your unborn children and we are so grateful for the trust that you all have shown in us. It has made every long day and every sleepless night away from our own families worth it. Being your doctor has given my life meaning and made both my brother and I feel like we were really making a difference. When we first decided to come to Ottawa in 2006 a lot of our friends and colleagues back home in Chicago told us that we were crazy. They said that two black guys with funny names from the city would never be accepted "in the country". Well clearly they were wrong. You guys accepted us with open arms and both my brother and I and our families are proud to now call La Salle County home. Just as early as March of this year my wife and I were making plans to build a home along Route 71 and we envisioned ourselves staying here in La Salle County for a long long time. Unfortunately with the acquisition of Ottawa Regional Hospital by OSF in May of this year things did change for doctors and patients alike. OSF St. Elizabeth's Hospital (as Ottawa Regional Hospital is now known) is now a Catholic hospital and like all Catholic hospitals in the United States it is a church ministry first and a hospital second. This is no slight on OSF, it is just a fact. As such OSF is governed by a set of rules called the ERD's (i.e. the Ethical and Religious Directives). These rules are published by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops and they can be found on the web at http://www.usccb.org/about/doctrine/ethical-and-religious-directives/. Everybody should take some time to read these rules. These rules tell doctors caring for patients at Catholic hospitals what medical services they can and cannot provide for their patients based on Catholic religious doctrine. For example the ERD's do not allow doctors on staff at OSF hospitals to perform tubal ligations or vasectomies at those hospitals. They also don't allow doctors employed by OSF (like those at the Ottawa Medical Center) to prescribed birth control. They also do not allow Ob/Gyn's like my brother and I (even though we are in private practice and not employed by the hospital) to treat ectopic pregnancies at an OSF hospital if the baby has a heartbeat, even if doing so would save the mother’s life. And so after OSF acquired the hospital and it became OSF St. Elizabeth's Hospital things changed for our patients and for us. Obviously my brother and I expressed some concerns to the hospital administration about these changes and about how they would affect our patients because OSF St. Elizabeth’s is the only hospital in Ottawa. At the same time my brother and I did agreed to follow the rules imposed by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops because we felt that as private practice doctors we could just provide services no longer available at Ottawa at other hospitals (i.e. Morris and Peru). Unfortunately because we choose to take some of our patients to other hospitals the OSF administration expressed to my brother and I that they felt that we were not "OSF team players". They also stated that they felt that my brother and I might not be able to continue following the ERD's in the future and that they therefore could not do anything for us to make continuing to practice here in Ottawa after OSF acquired the hospital easier. Since we don't work for the hospital they cannot fire us and they even said that they wanted us to stay because we bring a lot of patients to the hospital for care. Unfortunately when the OSF administration tells you that they cannot or will not do anything to make continuing to practice in Ottawa easy for you because they feel that you are not a team player or because they feel that you are not likely to follow the rules imposed on the hospital and on the community by the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops, then they are telling you that they will not support you in the future. If your hospital does not have your back as a doctor who cares for their patients then continuing to practice at that hospital is too dangerous for you as a doctor and this was a consideration my brother and I had to keep in mind. One never knows what the future holds, but as things stand right now it is too difficult for my brother and I to continue practicing here. As always it is our goal to ensure that ALL of our patients are getting the very best care possible even if we are not practicing in this area and so we will advise all of our patients either by letter or on our website of where they can go to continue getting good medical care. We’ve been in conversation with doctors in Morris and Peru and they’ve agreed to see our patients when and if my brother and I leave La Salle County. Again my brother and I REALLY appreciate all of your support and kind words. You guys are GREAT and you deserve the best medical care possible. We’ve tried our best to provide this over the last 7 years and to fight for you and for what is right. Please feel free to share your feelings with OSF administration, they are always happy to hear from the people they are here to serve. You can contact Dr. Gerald McShane (President and CEO of the OSF Medical Group) at 5114 Glen Park Place, Suite 220, Peoria Illinois 61614, 309-683-8100, Sister Judith Ann Duvall (Chairperson of OSF Healthcare) 800 NE Glen Oak Ave, Peoria Illinois 61614, 309-655-2850, Kevin Schoeplein (CEO of OSF Healthcare) 800 NE Glen Oak Ave, Peoria Illinois 61614 and Robert Chaffin (CEO of OSF St. Elizabeth’s Hospital) 1100 East Norris Drive, Ottawa Illinois 61350.

« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 12:18:02 AM by georgiapeach »

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RFF's Golden Rule:Have RESPECT for each other, regardless of opinion. This of course includes no flaming/insulting other users and/or their posts.

Well that's certainly much more helpful, thank you! I would never have targeted the brothers for JUST a money grab, but because this is a message board, forum, and a place for discussion, I was asking the person who posted the article for more background information. The majority of healthcare institutions in the United States are not founded or funded on the grounds of religious affiliations (I believe the last article I saw in 2013 on the topic indicated about 10-13% of just hospitals have some type of affiliation) - even if they are, they are obviously not permitted to not hire someone or not treat a patient based on any type of discrimination, so their case more than has enough merit (my comment was that sometimes you just wonder if people like doctors, lawyers..that upper pay grade do certain things just to rake in more money. After reading Jamil's statement, which provides much more detail about their positioning than does the article initially posted, clearly that wasn't the case!)

Once again, if discussion on this topic of the brother's lawsuit case isn't promoted here, then Jobby's post/article should be deleted and all subsequent posts. If it is promoted, and your comment was just about the religious talk, I was certainly not headed in that direction, just inquiring for more information (which your last post provides, and I appreciate immensely ) Apologies for the tone my first post might have taken, didn't mean offense by it, I just see this kind of thing all the time from health practitioners and just because the brothers are seemingly nice guys and TAR Alums doesn't make them immune to people inquiring why they're doing what they're doing. Glad to see they stick up for the members of their community, especially since that's the only hospital in Ottawa, IL, apparently!

I posted the article because it was related to them and they were on amazing race. Why do you think I will have the background information and I certainly did not make a money grab comment in anyway. I guess let's stop this discussion here?

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"The Amazing Race shows the best and worst out of you. But if only negative things are shown, then it's probably you. - Jobby"