This is a road rage incident cause by a couple of morons. Those guys will get arrested.

My point is what is the better option.

!. His car is in the auto shop and his family and him were traumatized but he can go to work etc.

2. He pulls out a glock and kills a few jerks and his life is permanently affected for years with lawyers, court, permanently traumatized, financially poorer, etc.

Sometime the choice is between bad and badder.

OR the guy in the SUV pulls a gun and the biker moron thinks twice and the whole situation is deescalated.
OR the guy in the SUV pulls a gun and the biker morons pull their guns and there is a shootout with 10 dead/wounded as though this were a Chicago neighborhood.

I am not using this as a gun conversation just violence in general. As I said I would have used my truck as a weapon (I don't own a gun) if I felt my family were threatened. Sounds like he was being harassed from the start. If the driver really tried to pull over and his tires were slashed I think there should be a lot of arrests and the guy was well within his right and his actions could even be considered reserved for the situation.

By the way, if I was the guy in the range rover, I would've stayed on the highway and looked for as much open road as possible. Maybe even make a break for the GWB, where there is sure to be tons of cops. He was definitely the victim in this case.

By "got a broken leg early on" do you mean "had his leg broken by the guy on his anniversary drive when he ran him over at 0:51 of the video and kept driving down the West Side Highway"?

First, I'd never have been in that situation to begin with, since I wouldn't have run over anyone just because I was pissed at being stuck in a motorcycle rally - and if I had gotten into an accident, I'd have stopped the car and called 9-1-1. I also would have called 9-1-1 while being chased by cyclists - which this guy couldn't do without being arrested, since he had just committed a hit and run.

The argument that this "poor guy" should have been allowed to shoot a few people in order to avoid a beatdown arising out of the fact that he had just deliberately run over someone and then tried to race off . . . well, I'll let you come up with the appropriate word for that.

Not to say the beatdown was appropriate; cops should have been called, and the guy arrested and spent a few years in jail for assault with a deadly weapon (the car) and the hit and run.

OR the guy in the SUV pulls a gun and the biker moron thinks twice and the whole situation is deescalated.
OR the guy in the SUV pulls a gun and the biker morons pull their guns and there is a shootout with 10 dead/wounded as though this were a Chicago neighborhood.

I am not using this as a gun conversation just violence in general. As I said I would have used my truck as a weapon (I don't own a gun) if I felt my family were threatened. Sounds like he was being harassed from the start. If the driver really tried to pull over and his tires were slashed I think there should be a lot of arrests and the guy was well within his right and his actions could even be considered reserved for the situation.

By the way, if I was the guy in the range rover, I would've stayed on the highway and looked for as much open road as possible. Maybe even make a break for the GWB, where there is sure to be tons of cops. He was definitely the victim in this case.

Who says the guy had to open up and mow everybody down with a semi automatic? Just flashing it and letting the bikers know that he was armed and won't take any sh*t would have probably saved him a beating and a trip to the emergency room.

Who says the guy had to open up and mow everybody down with a semi automatic? Just flashing it and letting the bikers know that he was armed and won't take any sh*t would have probably saved him a beating and a trip to the emergency room.

And who says your scenario is the way it plays out. If he has a gun and they have 400 guns, then it is more likely a violent ending IMO.

Did you? Did you see what started the fight? Dude straight up mowed down a cyclist because he didn't like being stuck behind the motorcycles, then raced off. Which is the reason he didn't bother calling the cops to help protect him - he didn't want to face serious jail time. I'm not shedding any tears for him.

I'm surprised that's what you got out of this. First did you not see the bike slam on his brakes in front of him at 0:26?

Then him pulled over at 0:33?

At around 0:45 it looks like a punch his thrown at or into his window.
0:45-0:48 it looks like the guy is trying to drag him out of the vehicle, his head and arms are in it. This is all very far away so it's hard to tell exactly what's going on. But then and only thing, after he had stopped does he decide to "straight up mow down a cyclist"? Sure looked like he was in fear for his life to me.

So while i'm sure you'd make an excellent lawyer for the defense, what i saw was:

SUV bumped the back of a bike who slammed on his brakes.

Bikers swarmed around him, and began trying to physically remove him from his vehicle.

He hit the accelerator to get away, running over one bike and rider.

They chased him for what looks like miles, trying multiple times to get him from the vehicle until they finally crushed his window, then reportedly beat the hell out of him.

By the way, if I was the guy in the range rover, I would've stayed on the highway and looked for as much open road as possible. Maybe even make a break for the GWB, where there is sure to be tons of cops. He was definitely the victim in this case.

Most of these guys are nothing but off-duty punks, drug dealers and thugs that thrive on chaos, violence and messing with the cops.

Interesting fact, as far back as the late 80's and 90's, huge gangs of these bikes used to congregate on W125st in the vicinity of the Apollo and the Harlem State Office building to the point where the Highway Unit used to have a detail assigned there just to keep it under control; There was always danger in the air and these bikers always knew they had strength in numbers in case anything stupid happened, which it often did ( I watched helplessly from across the street as a thrown bottle crashed across the top of one of my guys heads...thrown simply because they thought they could get away with it. They didnt) None of this stuff ever made the press as nothing above W110 st was important to the press, including the daily homicides in each precinct.

THe only reason this made the press, I'm guessing, is because one of these miscreants was dumb enough to tape it.

I'm surprised that's what you got out of this. First did you not see the bike slam on his brakes in front of him at 0:26?

Then him pulled over at 0:33?

At around 0:45 it looks like a punch his thrown at or into his window.
0:45-0:48 it looks like the guy is trying to drag him out of the vehicle, his head and arms are in it. This is all very far away so it's hard to tell exactly what's going on. But then and only thing, after he had stopped does he decide to "straight up mow down a cyclist"? Sure looked like he was in fear for his life to me.

So while i'm sure you'd make an excellent lawyer for the defense, what i saw was:

SUV bumped the back of a bike who slammed on his brakes.

Bikers swarmed around him, and began trying to physically remove him from his vehicle.

He hit the accelerator to get away, running over one bike and rider.

They chased him for what looks like miles, trying multiple times to get him from the vehicle until they finally crushed his window, then reportedly beat the hell out of him.

Is it possible all parties bear serious blame for the event in question?

Because while I certainly understand the anti-biker sentiment and the wrongdoing of their attack/assault, the fact remains that "slamming on his brakes" in front of the SUV driver does not give carte blanche amnesty to hit him then run over him and his bike in an attempt to flee the scene of a traffic accident.

I feel like we're discussing the Martin/Zimmerman case all over again, actually.

Most of these guys are nothing but off-duty punks, drug dealers and thugs that thrive on chaos, violence and messing with the cops.

Interesting fact, as far back as the late 80's and 90's, huge gangs of these bikes used to congregate on W125st in the vicinity of the Apollo and the Harlem State Office building to the point where the Highway Unit used to have a detail assigned there just to keep it under control; There was always danger in the air and these bikers always knew they had strength in numbers in case anything stupid happened, which it often did ( I watched helplessly from across the street as a thrown bottle crashed across the top of one of my guys heads...thrown simply because they thought they could get away with it. They didnt) None of this stuff ever made the press as nothing above W110 st was important to the press, including the daily homicides in each precinct.

THe only reason this made the press, I'm guessing, is because one of these miscreants was dumb enough to tape it.

You get out of NYC and a lot of these groups are just regular people that like to ride in clubs. My neighbor has a bike and rides with a club on various weekends. They are a pain in the butt to listen to. Their mufflers are all real loud and they seem to have a need to rev up the engines constantly.

It has to be difficult for cops to face a 100 or more bike riders for violations. Maybe strength in numbers applies.

Is it possible all parties bear serious blame for the event in question?

Because while I certainly understand the anti-biker sentiment and the wrongdoing of their attack/assault, the fact remains that "slamming on his brakes" in front of the SUV driver does not give carte blanche amnesty to hit him then run over him and his bike in an attempt to flee the scene of a traffic accident.

I feel like we're discussing the Martin/Zimmerman case all over again, actually.

Are you ignoring that his tires were slashed and he had been harassed before the start of the video? Personally I would flee too if I had a biker trying to pull me from my truck even if I had to take out one his buddies to get away.

Are you ignoring that his tires were slashed and he had been harassed before the start of the video? Personally I would flee too if I had a biker trying to pull me from my truck even if I had to take out one his buddies to get away.

I'm not ignoring anything. There is a huge amount of "alleged" in this story, obviously. And a good dose of "why didn't he call 911 here, here or here? as well.

With that said, slashed tires, if true, does not excuse hit & run. And the video, whilst good at inflaming passions, is clearly not the whole story in and of itself.

As I said, as with the Martin/Zimmerman case, where people where just as happy to prejudge all parties beforehand, I think such prejudgement in this case is foolish. There is some video evidence of lawbreaking amongst both parties, and substantial "alleged" claims of what happened before.

Till a court figures it all out, to me, it looks like the legal equivalent of offsetting personal-foul penalties. Both parties appear to have broken serious laws, only the courts and evidence presented within can determine if either party had legal justification to have broken said laws.

Is it possible all parties bear serious blame for the event in question?

Because while I certainly understand the anti-biker sentiment and the wrongdoing of their attack/assault, the fact remains that "slamming on his brakes" in front of the SUV driver does not give carte blanche amnesty to hit him then run over him and his bike in an attempt to flee the scene of a traffic accident.

I feel like we're discussing the Martin/Zimmerman case all over again, actually.

He wasn't fleeing a traffic accident, he was fleeing a mob of bikers seeking to assault him.

The driver may bear some responsibility for the first time he hit the biker who slowed down right in front of him. But after that, when a mob of bikers all stopped and started to attack him, he's justified in doing what he had to do to get himself and his family to safety.

Now it's possible something happened before the video that was the SUV drivers fault, it's impossible to know.

I'm not ignoring anything. There is a huge amount of "alleged" in this story, obviously. And a good dose of "why didn't he call 911 here, here or here? as well.

With that said, slashed tires, if true, does not excuse hit & run. And the video, whilst good at inflaming passions, is clearly not the whole story in and of itself.

As I said, as with the Martin/Zimmerman case, where people where just as happy to prejudge all parties beforehand, I think such prejudgement in this case is foolish. There is some video evidence of lawbreaking amongst both parties, and substantial "alleged" claims of what happened before.

Till a court figures it all out, to me, it looks like the legal equivalent of offsetting personal-foul penalties. Both parties appear to have broken serious laws, only the courts and evidence presented within can determine if either party had legal justification to have broken said laws.

According to CNN, the biker pulled in front of the SUV and hit his brakes inadvertantly causing the accident. The driver pulled over to settle it and his tires were slashed and he was threatened by an angry mob. He took off fearing for his life until he could no longer drive as he hit grid lock.

There was no hit and run, he was fleeing for his and families lives. Here's the ABC News story:A group of motorcyclists riding in New York City on Sunday chased and then attacked the driver of an SUV after he collided into a biker, while one biker filmed the entire confrontation, police said today.

The 33-year-old driver of a Range Rover was driving north on Manhattan's West Side Highway with his wife and 2-year-old child around 2 p.m. when he found himself surrounded by a group of motorcyclists, police said.

Video recorded by one of the bikers in the group shows the motorcycles slowing their speed as they surround the Range Rover, and the Range Rover then tapping the fender of a motorcyclist in the group. Twenty to 30 bikers then surrounded the SUV and started gesturing at him, the video shows.

The motorcyclists then began damaging the Range Rover and slashed one the tires, causing the driver to take off and flee north and then exit the highway as his tire deflated, according to Officer Christopher Pisano of the NYPD.

As he was attempting to flee, the SUV driver hit a motorcyclist before speeding off, causing the entire group of bikers to take off after him. The motorcyclist's leg was broken in the collision, police said.

During the six-minute encounter, the Range Rover driver slowed down enough at one point for a motorcyclist to get off his bike, run up to the SUV and open the driver's side door before the Range Rover fled again.

Finally, after the entire group turned off the highway and the SUV rolled to a stop, motorcyclists ran up to Range Rover and one biker, using his helmet, began smashing the windows of the vehicle, the video shows. Other bikers joined in before the video was stopped.

The bikers then assaulted the driver, according to the NYPD. The driver's wife and 2-year-old child were not harmed. The driver was taken to Columbia Medical Center, where he was treated and received stitches, police said.

The video was uploaded by the biker to Live Leak with the caption, "A black Range Rover ran over a group of bikers in New York City during an annual street ride." The information posted with the video claimed that a biker was killed when he was hit by the Range Rover, but police said that was not true.

Police are investigating witness accounts. A video of the chase and confrontation was also uploaded to the Internet. Pisano said police are "combing everything" as part of their investigation, but no arrests have been made yet.

Pisano was unsure whether the motorcyclists were officially affiliated with any group or club. Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said today that the bikers were doing an annual ride through New York City. Kelly said he did not expect the SUV driver to face any charges.