If you take Christ out of Christ-mass, all you have is the mass. How would Christ be honored by affixing His holy name with a pagan mass? We should remember the birth of Christ everyday in our lives, not just on a day set aside by the papist. If God wanted us to set aside a specific time of year, He would have specified it in scripture, not leave it up to man's devices.

Michael Hranek wrote:DBWhy??? From what some professing to be Calvinists tell me they are regenerated (aka saved) before and apart from any personal repentance or faith and give the impression that any kind of repentance and faith must be works salvation.

Interesting how you skirt around an important issue like repentance. You brought up the subject of repentance, I asked you a valid question. For the record, Calvinist do not aka. as you call it, regeneration with being saved. Regeneration is regeneration, justification is justification, sanctification is sanctification and glorification is glorification.

The question is still on the floor, can an unregenerate person repent of sin by his own power and free-will in light of Romans 8:7-8? I'll quote the verse for you.

"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."

Michael Hranek wrote:DBDon't have time to respond right now.Knowing the "Puritans" were persecutors of Baptist type Belivers if I should read them it will be so with much prayer and a red pen to mark where I boht agree or disagree with them and give the Scriptural reference or basis why. It would be so wrong to read them or any other popular group of religious writers especially Catholic writers without serious discernment and wariness. Thanks

And did you know that it was the reformers who were burned at the stake by the RCC for preaching the gospel of God's saving grace and printing the Word of God in the language of the people so they could read it for themselves. What did the baptist ever do? Men like William Carey, John Bunyan, Charles Spurgeon were the greatest baptist and they preached the gospel, translated the bible (Carey) and were staunch Calvinist. Everywhere you have Arminianism, you have totalitarianism. The USA was founded on the Presbyterian form of government, a system of checks and balances that insured the freedoms you and I all enjoy. The framers of our Constitution were all Calvinistic in their beliefs.

Also when you get a chance, consider the question on repentance as it deals more with the original topic.

'As the apostle says to Timothy, so also he says to everyone, 'Give yourself to reading.' ***He who will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.*** You need to read. Renounce as much as you will all light literature, but study as much as possible sound theological works, especially the Puritanic writers, and expositions of the Bible. The best way for you to spend your leisure is to be either reading or praying.'

When you read the Puritans in requires you to THINK, something most of your Baptist-type churches frown on. One well known IFB preacher once said, "Keep your people so busy that they won't have time to think, because if they have time to think, they will become Calvinist."

If you was to completely dismantle your theology and reassemble it by the word of God, can you come up with the same as you did before?

I do however agree with your point that personal repentance is lacking from most preaching.

Ask yourself a question, is it possible for an unregenerate man to repent of sin by his own power and free-will?

Michael,Since you seem to be an authority on what Calvinist believe and does not believe, would you share with us what books you have read and preachers you have listened to that support your claims?The church I attend has a burning passion to see souls repent and come to the saving knowledge of Christ. That is why they preach in the church, prisons, street corners, send out gospel tracts, and I mean real gospel tracts, not the 1-2-3 repeat after me, 4-5-6 let's see if it sticks, 7-8-9-10 let's try it again. By the way, God is the only soul-winner here, we are only the messengers pointing the way to the Savior and relying on the power of the Holy Spirit to regeerate those that are lost, quicken them and opening their deaf ears, blind eyes and replacing that stoney heart for a new heart so that they might believe the gspel. It begins with God and ends with God. He poured out His divine wrath, His anger and fury on His only begotten Son because of my sins. Christ was completely innocent of all charges, but was wounded for our transgressions. Michael, when you look to the cross and see the extend of Christ's crucifixion, all of what he went through to save sinners, how can you add your own freewill to the equation. It was because of the bondage of that He died to free us.

Michael Hranek wrote:QuestionI trust you should be well able to do that yourself.Give yourself to living for ChristBe deeply into His word having it richly dwell within you and live itBe filled with the Holy Spirit empowered and led by Him in serving ChristBe about serious prayerBe about soul winningBe about seeing individuals become genuine fellow followes of Christ NOT "cookie cutter Christians conformed to the "faith tradition" of any particular denomination"AND THE ENEMIES OF THE CROSS will most likey be happy to make themselves known to you or put on serious camoflage to pretend they are really Christians and your friends to sabotage your faith.

Michael, I would have to say a big AMEN to those points. That is why you should embrace the great doctrines of the reformation.

If their salvation is in themselves like most Arminians here, they have reason whereof to hear for the security of their soul, but if their salvation is in Christ alone, then their assurance is in the faithfulness of Christ in that he accomplished the will of his Father in the complete redemption of his people. Their is no such thing as partial redemption, either you are or you aren't.

Sin will indeed destroy the believer's testimony and fellowship with the Lord and will in some cases result in premature death.

Not only that, but Christ did not come to give everyone an opportunity to get saved, he came TO SEEK because no one was seeking him and TO SAVE that which was lost. He didn't come to try to save his people from their sins, he came TO SAVE his people from their sins. He saved all of those who the Father gave him.

The only problem Michael is that there are so many out there evangelizing with a false gospel. No repentence, just pray a prayer to invite Jesus into your heart and you'll be OK. When Jesus preached to the lost, he preached hell fire and repentence. When the Holy Spirit is involved in the conversion of souls, the sinner will see himself as God sees him, a dirty, filthy, rotten, stinking sinner. The Holy Spirit brings him to repentence to turn from sin to faith in Christ. Most of what is called evangelism is anathema. That is why so many who are caught up in this type of evangelism struggles with their assurance of salvation. Reason being, they don't have it. They were convinced that if they prayed a certain prayer, asked Jesus in their heart that they have eternal life.

It is not that hard to figure out. Since the Jewish day began at 6pm, working backwards. The third day which was Sunday began at 6PM on what we consider Staturday evening. Using our time schedule, from 6am Saturday to 6 am Sunday was one full day. From 6am Friday to 6 am Saturday was two full days. From 6am Thursday to 6am Friday was 3 full days. Christ was taken down from the cross after 3pm on the first day and placed in the grave before 6pm. This was still considered daytime. So yes he was in the grave three days beginning Thursday afternoon and three nights and rose again on the third day before daybreak Sunday morning.

I can't see how the Romish can fit all of this in a Friday afternoon crucifixion.

The problem with the KJV 1611 or the Geneva 1560 is not in the typset or the spelling, but the conviction it brings to the sinful depraved person reading it. It declares sin for what it is and the Savior for who he is.

So you reject the eternal security of the believer. That is another term for OSAS as well as perseverance of the saints. You would also have to reject the preservation of the saints. Thus you believe in salvation by works.

JD, deal with the passages I posted. You have a habit of getting testy when others prove you wrong. The key is reconciling the Old Testament and New Testament passages together rather than looking at them isolated from each other which is the error of dispensationalism.

It looks like it is you who is changing the subject. You asked for proof of "sons of God" in the Old Testament, well it has been presented, deal with it and accept it. Your system of interpretation works both ways my friend. If the verses from Deuteronomy doesn't convince you, then I don't know what will.

Since dispensationalist are allowed to support thier doctrine of pretrib rapture by taking bits and pieces here and there, using inferences and reasoning, then others should be allowed to prove their position likewise.

Deu 8:5 "Thou shalt also consider in thine heart, that, as a man chasteneth his son, so the LORD thy God chasteneth thee."

Heb 12:6 "For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."

Deu 7:7 "The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:"

Deu 7:8 "But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."

Heb 12:7 "If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?"

Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye b*******, and not sons.

You know Mr. J, one of the verses that comes to mind is when Jesus told the woman at the well that "God is a Spirit and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. What is truth, the inventions of man or the word of God?