Leaking Siberian ice raises a tricky climate issue

CHERSKY, Russia (AP) — The Russian scientist shuffles across the frozen lake, scuffing aside ankle-deep snow until he finds a cluster of bubbles
trapped under the ice. With a cigarette lighter in one hand and a knife in the other, he lances the ice like a blister. Methane whooshes out and
bursts into a thin blue flame.

Gas locked inside Siberia's frozen soil and under its lakes has been seeping out since the end of the last ice age 10,000 years ago. But in the past
few decades, as the Earth has warmed, the icy ground has begun thawing more rapidly, accelerating the release of methane — a greenhouse gas 23 times
more powerful than carbon dioxide — at a perilous rate.

Some scientists believe the thawing of permafrost could become the epicenter of climate change. They say 1.5 trillion tons of carbon, locked inside
icebound earth since the age of mammoths, is a climate time bomb waiting to explode if released into the atmosphere.

"Here, total carbon storage is like all the rain forests of our planet put together," says the scientist, Sergey Zimov — "here" being the
endless sweep of snow and ice stretching toward Siberia's gray horizon, as seen from Zimov's research facility nearly 350 kilometers (220 miles)
above the Arctic Circle.

I wish people would just look at a graph over time
Climate was changing up and down through many Ice ages and warm periods long before man ever arrived on the scene
I can't understand how that goes ignored by the man made global warming crowd.
Unless they have invested in carbon credit trading and they don't want anyone to notice that because thier carbon trading investment would fall to
zero.
get a job
but not one critical to the well being of other people.

if man made global warmists have their way the result will be millions dead because of the financial repercussions, thats a bigger danger then MMGW
duh

edit on 21-11-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-11-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason
given)

edit on 21-11-2010 by Danbones because: to remove the phrase homicidal crimminal insanity

Of course the climate will change and will continue to change with and without man-kind, that does not imply that we are not in
actuality having a significant effect on the climate either nor does it imply that what we are doing now won't have a very large negative effect. Get
it right.

Also previous climate change events can be studied in great detail - we can look at what caused these past climate changes and examine the effect they
had. By deducing what caused these climate change events we can find the effect that man-made emissions will have on the climate - warming. This is
actually a fundamental part of modern climatology. Previous climate changes, therefore, merely reinforce the notion that our emissions are and will
adversely change the climate.

if man made global warmists have their way the result will be millions dead because of the financial repercussions, thats a bigger danger then
MMGW

Baloney.

Nobody here is suggesting that we should support the political agenda for carbon credit fees on developing nations nor carbon taxes on developing
nations. There are plenty of wars to fight climate change, what you have done is cherry pick one and form a straw-man around it. Create an
international framework into moving to a carbon-free economy at minimal cost, support research and development into low-cost sustainable energy at a
lower cost than fossil fuels, or support tax and 100% dividend (that's where you tax polluters and give 100% of the money back to the people in tax
reduction or otherwise).

Originally posted by Danbones
I wish people would just look at a graph over time
Climate was changing up and down through many Ice ages and warm periods long before man ever arrived on the scene
I can't understand how that goes ignored by the man made global warming crowd.
Unless they have invested in carbon credit trading and they don't want anyone to notice that because thier carbon trading investment would fall to
zero.
get a job
but not one critical to the well being of other people.

if man made global warmists have their way the result will be millions dead because of the financial repercussions, thats a bigger danger then MMGW
duh

edit on 21-11-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-11-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

You are quite right about that but the planet hasn't been that populated as these days before and will have more effect then before.

Agreed. It's just their attempts at misdirection to try to push their proven "cherry picked" data. It just amazes me when "scientists" present
"scientific conclusions", and when they are asked to present the raw data, they can't or won't.

Climate change is real it is the supposed man-made cause that is a hoax. They want us to feel guilty so when they tax us for breathing we will think
its fair and accept paying for air, like we do water.

OK correct me if I am wrong.
The premiss of the article is that the melting ice is causing the gas to be released. Yet the article also states that the methane has been leaking
for 10,000 years. If the methane has not escaped at the same rate as it is leaked their must be one huge methane bubble under the ice. And this
scientist is walking around Siberia with a lighter. This could make Tangusta look like 4th of July celebration.

Originally posted by nocents
OK correct me if I am wrong.
The premiss of the article is that the melting ice is causing the gas to be released. Yet the article also states that the methane has been leaking
for 10,000 years. If the methane has not escaped at the same rate as it is leaked their must be one huge methane bubble under the ice. And this
scientist is walking around Siberia with a lighter. This could make Tangusta look like 4th of July celebration.

You aren't wrong it has been leaking for thousands of years but the last 30 years it is accelerating, that is what they are troubled about.

After the global cooling caused by mt Toba's eruption the human population fell to 5000 that was natural, if we can easily mitigate the effects of
natural global warming simply by opting to build Thorium reactors and cutting down our oil use surely that's a good thing all round.

Why is the USA's oil use so much higher than Europe's when it could be argued that across the board we have a higher standard of living?

I am not deciding here if the climate change is a hoax or not, I will leave that to experts and I am no expert. I am just pointing a fact about the
permafrost which is in a rapidly melting stage. And with all that methane in the ground and in the ice of the lakes it is reason for concern.

There is a consensus among 97 % of the scientific community, specialized in climate related subjects.

They agree that the evidence suggest the climate change is caused or at least major influenced by man.

Yes you should feel guilty not because you are responsible, but you are one of many that use more then you need.
Don't fall for the money scam either. A carbon tax won't do any good. They will not solve the problem with it.

So a consensus in science is different from a political one. There is no vote. Scientists just give up arguing because the sheer weight of
consistent evidence is too compelling, the tide too strong to swim against any longer.

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