Interview with William S. James

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Interview by James E. Massey, Harford County Library, February 14, 1981
MASSEY: First thing I'd like to ask you about -- I see that you were born
in Aberdeen -- who were your parents and what did they do?
JAMES: My father, well, -- let's go back a little bit -- my great-
grandfather's name was John Manderson James. He lived in Philadelphia and he joined the Union Army in 1861. He served a three-year term and, after he was dicharged in the summer of 1864, he got a job with what became the Pennsylvania Railroad, There, of course, was a center in Philadelphia. He came down to work upon the first bridge that was constructed across the Susquehanna River at Havre de Grace. After he finished work there, he settled in Havre de Grace. He lived there for a while and then went to Aberdeen. He established a feed and grain, livery stable business, restaurant -- that type of thing. My grandfather continued it after he died. Of course, that's where my father was born. My father married my mother. Her name was Mary Beatrice Smith. After they were married, they settled in a house in Aberdeen near the railroad tracks and lived there a couple of years until World War I. About 1915, my father, who had gotten into the road-building and construction business, went to Hopewell, Virginia, and helped the Dupont Company build power plants during World War II. After the war was over, he came back to Harford County and bought a home in Havre de Grace, a farm known as the Old Bay Farm which adjoins the old Havre de Grace race track. That's where I live now.
3M: Where did you attend school?
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WJ: I went to the [chuckle] first grade in Elkton, Maryland, which
was my mother's home town; second grade in Havre de Grace; third grade in Elkton. Then I came back to Havre de Grace and went to Havre de Grace from fourth through the eighth grade. I went to
the old Tome School in Port Deposit four years. Graduated
in 1932. I went to the University of Delaware from '32 to '34; then I transferred to Law School and graduated there in 1937 -¬University of Maryland.
JM: When had you decided to be a lawyer?
WJ: I decided when I was in college at the University of Delaware. I
was pretty hard-up for money, and I was a little in doubt whether I would be able to spend four years In the liberal arts situation
and then continue for another three years. This was
the thirties when money was hard to come by. I had had a pretty good, basic education at the Tome School in a very disciplined way. We went to school six days a week there. The standards were very high; so that I felt that I had sufficient basic education to go to law school. In those days you could get into law school if you had sixty credits. I had quite a bit more than that. I decided to go directly to law school after two years of college.
JM: And then where did you open your practice?
WJ: Well, I had a pretty hard time getting started. I came to Bel Air.
I knew nobody. My father had been a friend of Ned Harlan's
father -- the present judge, Edwin H. W. Harlan. They had played
baseball together. Ned Harlan's father was a great athlete -- a famous athlete at Princeton. My father was a pretty good baseball player. They told me to to to see Ned -- Mr. Harlan as I called him in those days. I was 23 years old and pretty young to start
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to practice law. I recall that he was very nice to me when I introduced ma1q. Lt was, oyer here on Cou,rtland Street, J'ye
forgotten the address; but it's where the Republican Headquarters are now. He said, "Let's go upstairs and see what we have up there." We went upstairs. There was an outside entrance to it. We went up. It was an old, dusty area that looked as though it could qualify for a role in a haunted-house movie. And he said, "If you want to hang your hat here until you get your feet on the ground, you're welcome to do it." So, that's where I established myself for a few months. Then Mr. Phil Close gave me a space over here in the buildings now occupied by Cameron, Close and Reed at the corner of Bond and Office Streets. I had my
office up there for about a year or so. I wasn't doing too well. Business was poor. In those days, lawyers were pretty hard-up. They did most of the work themselves. After a couple of years, I got a bit discouraged. So, I got a job with the Maryland
Casualty Company working in the workmen's compensation side
of the Claims Department. I worked there for about a year. I transferred to the Title Guarantee Company and searched titles for about a year. That took me up to about-May of 1942, when I
determined that I was going to run for the legislature. I submitted my resignation to the Title Company. I happened to have a temporary job working in the JiUtual Reserve over at Delaware Park, a race track in Delaware. In those days the race meet was only thirty days. It ran from May thirtieth, Memorial Day, through July the fourth. I worked there duri-ng that period; after that I campaigned vigorously until the September primary. Unfortunately, I was fifth in a race in which the top four were
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elected.
At that point I was sort of at loose ends because I had burned all my bridges. But, about ten days later, I got a call
from Stewart Day, who was a practicing attorney here and later, judge. He asked me if I would like to come and help him with his
real estate title work. I had had a year of intensive experience
in that area with the Title Guarantee Company; so, I was
qualified to do the work that he wanted performed. I was quite delighted with the offer. I worked with him for about three years.
Glas:gow Archer, his law partner, returned from military service.
It made the office a little bit crowded. By that time I was ready to step out on my own. I found a spot with Mr. Charles H.
McComas whose picture is here on my wall. He had retired
from the legal department of the F. & B. Company. He was anxious to have somebody come in who was young and willing to work. So, we formed a partnership. That partnership lasted for about thirty two years. We had a very pleasant relationship. He brought the
business in; and I did the work. [chuckles] We had a very nice
time of it. Of course, I began to be more and more successful in the political world; so, I tried to work seven days a week and
cover both areas.
JM: How did you get an interest in politics?
WJ: My mother had sort of a political background. Her father was
Sheriff of Cecil County for a term. Also, he was in-the House of Delegates. In addition to that, of course, we had a United States senator, Millard E. Tydings, in our home town of Havre de Grace.
His presence sort of stimulated the interest of young people in the political world.
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3M: Now what were politics like in Harford County when you got
involved?
WJ: When I was in the early stages of political activities, the scene
was dominated by the Tydings-Archer organization. Of course, Millard Tydings was long past his involvement in local politics; but, he was associated with Major Robert H. Archer who was political king-pin in the County. They were pretty in for quite a long period of time, L suppose, covering from the twenties up through 1945 and were pretty well able to dominate the elections. I ran the first time without their support. However, I made such a good showing that Major Archer supported me when I ran in '46 for the Hous.e of Delegates.
I was successful on that occasion.
Of course, they had their local political forces in Havre de Grace. Havre de Grace was very active politically. They had very violent political fights. Usually the mayor,-George Pennington, was elected. He was a Tydings lieutenant. Try as they would for many, many years, they were never able to oust Pennington. Of course, he was able to bring his forces to
the support of the Tydings-Archer election efforts.
In Aberdeen Wilmer Cronin was the chief lieutenant of the Tydings-Archer forces. You had that axis of the three towns there: Havre de Grace, Aberdeen and Bel Air which were pretty dominant. You might say, if you could get all of them together, you could pretty nearly hang the balance of power. It went on for quite a while. But, it did disintegrate with Major Archer's death. I think he died in 1948 or 49; somewhere along in there. You really haven't had an organized political machine dominating
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Harford County politics since that time.
JM: What kind of problems, when you were finally elected to the house,
did you see? Was it much like it is today? Or, was it a much, more simpler place?
WJ: The population was not nearly as great when I was elected to the
House of Delegates. Harford County had about forty thousand
people. [There was] no demand to the County to provide any
urban services. The law enforcement problems were relatively simple. Harford County, except for the three towns, was largely rural. The farmers were much stronger politically than they are now. When I was first elected, World War I was just finished. We had a new school superintendent, Dr. Charles W. Willis. He organized a study of Harford County's school buildings. They came back with a report that most of the school buildings in Harford County were in pretty sad shape. We organized a fiscal drive to start re-building the capital plan of the school
buildings. We developed a four million dollar bond bill in the
legislature. [We] held a big public hearing; the County
commissioners, by a vote of three to two, decided to issue the bonds. Milton Walker, as I recall, and Lee Linkoos -¬it was by split vote; I've forgotten the names of the commissioners. They supported it, and we built this Bel Air high school over
here and some other buildings. That started a long-range program. In large measure, the whole school plan witha couple of exceptions, that has been built, we built in Harford County. When I left office, I could almost say we didn't really have a bad school building in the County, with one or two exceptions.
JM: When you went down to Annapolis, what kind of atmosphere
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[did you find.] Was it what you expected? What was it like
when you went down in '46'
WJ: In those days the House of Delegates consisted of one hundred
twenty three members.. When you're just one of one hundred twenty three, you really don't have much political power. You hoped you would get assigned to a favorable committee. However, if you were not on either the Ways and Means Committee or the House Judiciary Committee, which had about twenty five members each, you realty didn't have too much to do because most of the important legislation went to those two committees. They had a mxriad of other committees, such as the Alcoholic Beverage Committee, Chesapeake Bay Tributaries Committee, and heaven knows what else. Those committees would just meet once in a while; and the hills they handled were of minor consequence. Basically, what you had was a House with maybe a third of the members, maybe fifty of the members, actively working every day in committee handling important matters with the remainder not too busily occupied with committee work. They had their own floor sessions;
but, they were not used to the maximum. [inaudible]
Governor William Preston Lana had been elected to that session. He recognized the fact that Maryland's Capital Plant needed a lot of improvement; plus the fact that the school teachers were being poorly paN; the local governments' needed help. So, he supported the sales tax to provide the money to meet all the obligations to the State. He got into a big controversy over that which ultimately resulted in his defeat in 1950.
There was another program in that session which was known
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as the Sherbow Report or Plan. That was a revenue-sharing program of the counties. For instance, a portion of the racing revenue, a portion of the income tax, a portion of this and that certain tax revenue was sent back to the counties by the State to help relieve the burden on real estate tax. Maryland was really a pioneer in revenue-sharing with the local subdivisions. Those were two of the big things in that particular session. Hundreds, almost literally thousands, of things happen in a legislative session.. I have to go back to my records to really see what did happen.
JM: Were you accepted with your colleagues or were you sort of an
independent person down there?
WJ: I don't know whether I was or not. You never do anything by
yourself in a political world; so, anybody who thinks he's an independent and can get anything done, is just living in a dream-world. I did have a nice committee assignment. I was on the House Judiciary Committee. I kept busy and made a lot of good contacts and good friends. However, I can't say that I was a heavy-weight.
JM: What made your decision to go on to the State senate?
WJ: I'd served for eight years in:the House and I think I made a
good record. Eventually the Senate opened up. I believe Paul
J'lcNabb, who-was in the Senate, was appointed to the bench.
Robert R. Lauter was appointed temporarily to hold his position; but, he didn't run again. So, there was a vacancy in the Senate. I turned out to be the logical candidate for, the Senate.
JM: Now, who were your fellow delegates from Harford County when you
were in there?
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WJ: The first tern there was a gentleman named Earl Burkins; he was
an Archer-lieutenant; [and] John E. Clarke who's still
practicing law here in Harford County. Mr. Burkins is dead.
[Also,] a fellow named James J. DeRan who, I believe, is
still living in the upper part of the County. The composition of
the House changed [in the] second session. I believe DeRan
was defeated and Mary W. Ris.teau was elected.
A Freeborn Brown and Rush Baldwin --• they're the ones I served with in the House.when 1 was there.
JM: Do you remember very much ---we weren't able to get an interview
before Miss Risteau died -- what was she like? I'm
sort of curious.
WJ: Oh, yes. I remember her very well. She and I got along rather
well. Let's put it that way. She was a great talker. They were going to make me chairman of the delegation; but, she got so upset when they suggested it to her, that I just said, "Well, let the
lady be chairman and avoid all arguments." I bowed in her
direction in that case. I can't say we were particularly
harmonious. She was on the Ways and Means Committee in the House and I was on the Judiciary Committee. Our paths really didn't cross too much. She was involved more with the State finances. We had cordial relations; but, I can't say we ever worked together in governmental programs.
aM: What was the relationship between the members of the House
and the commissioners back in Bel Air?
WJ: I never had any trouble with the Commissioners_. During my tern
in the legislature we met periodically once a week to discuss problems and then from time to time we'd come back and discuss
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problems with the local governments. Of course, that was
before the time of home rule. The legislative delegation
really had the final say on the amendment of local laws. I remember one instance in which the Commissioners refused to buy voting machines for Harford County. We passed a law making it compulsory for them to buy them. So, if you couldn't get anything done over here, why, you could appeal to the legislative delegation and try to get your law through at Annapolis. Since about '72 you can't do that because Of charter, government. Legislators had a lot of responsibility and local power.
JM: Was there a lot of demand for your constituents for you in the
House?
WJ: Harford County is a pretty nice place to represent because I
never felt the Harford County constituents were very demanding. There were some areas of the State where they would almost drive the representatives crazy. I found the people of Harford County to be, in the most instances, very reasonable.
JM: When you went into the Senate, how different was that for you?
WJ: You had a lot more power in the Senate. You were one of 29.
You figure there's a certain percentage of Republicans, and
you have a certain amount of power because you're one of the majority party. I happened to be on the winning side when I went to the organization of the .Senate. So, I immediately was assigned to the Senate Finance Committee. which was very powerful in the fiscal area. From that time on I just built my political fences, tried to improve the respect of my colleagues., and tried to keep my constituents happy. And, I was fortunate to be able to do so.
JM: Do you remember some of the issues that had come up during your
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tern in the Senate that were pretty important in Harford?
WJ: No, I couldn't. I've compiled my recollections, (which I haven't
finished), and the innumerable issues, the important issues that I've sifted out and. recorded in my written recollections.are there. I'd have to go back and look at them because it's all jumbled together, when I think about it, in one big experience. To identify when issues developed and what they were is almost a research job.
JM: How was it that someone from Harford County could become the
President of the Senate?
WJ: Anytime you achieve political distinction, there's a lot of luck
involved. You have to be the man of the moment. Number one, George Della who was the President of the Senate, was
defeated in 1962. That left a vacancy. If he hadn't been defeated, why then, there would have been no vacancy. In those days the Governor was extremely influential in assisting in the organization of the legislature. There were a number of people who were considered. One of them, (I'm not going to mention any names), was an able fellow; but, he drank too much liquor.
They were just a little bit leary of him. Tawes was from
the Eastern Shore. He didn't want the legislative organization over-balanced toward the Eastern shore. He had to look to the Western shore. He had to look at who had top leadership in the House. He didn't want to give the leadership to the same geographical area. As I recall, Baltimore County had the
leadership in the House. That sort of eliminated the
Baltimore County senator. By process of elimination, they got
down to me. I really was not a candidate until Governor Tawes
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sent a representative to me. [end of side one, tape one]
We met in a restaurant in Aberdeen and he asked me if I'd be interested in being President of the Senate. I said, "Yes; I'd be interested." I got a call from Winship Wheatley a little bit later. He said, "Would you agree to an organization as the President of the Senate with me as majority leader and Malkus as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee?" I said, "Yes, I'll agree to that." When we met with the Democratic caucus, it was all set up. So, I became President. From that time on, things seemed to break in my favor. I was re-elected. We had a Republican Governor the next time; so, the Governor was out of it. The members continued me in office. Then, when Mandel became Governor, he and I were on friendly terms. He supported me again for a third term. It just seemed to be a chain of events there that continued me in office.
JM: Was it a very demanding position?
WJ: Yes; very. It almost consumed my life. It ruined my law practice
because the demands of the office were so great. Eventually, it reached a point that I was either going to have to become a full-time public official or a full-time lawyer. I couldn't be both. That's why I decided to retire.
JM: While you were in the Senate, were political changes occurring
here in Harford County?
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WJ: Harford County was increasing in population all the time.
hh This brought urban problems. I had drafted the legislation
to create the Harford County Metropolitan Commission
which began to supply urban sewerage and water services. I was able to get to do many things like helping to create the Harford
Community College, We had really two problems. We had the
local problems to solve and then we had to face the State-wide problems. You had to sort of divide yourself into two parts. Being President of the Senate tends to divorce you from the local point of view because you have to be interested in solving State problems. You have difficulty in blending the local point of view with the State point of view; and sometimes it's a good way of getting into trouble back home. If you vote to give Baltimore city aid, which, by all rights, from the State point of view, they should have, you are not going to be particularly popular in Harford County.
We got the Citizens' Nursing Home established. It provides
ambulatory services for the Harford Memorial Hospital. We
contributed to the expansion and improvement of the hospital. We did everything. We built schools. Let's see -- built the Community College; built the Kennedy Highway; We were deeply involved in everything that was happening here locally. We established the Department of Parks and Recreation which administers Program Open Space; the Susquehanna State Park; Rocks State Park. Those are a few samples of-the types of things that I and my colleagdes'.in, the legislature --
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Of course, you need the cooperation of the local government to
do a lot of these things. As they say, the secret of being a
good representative is to work with the people. You can't really a lone eagle and get much done. You take a year in the
library in which you operate. I was on the original Board of Trustees from about 1947 until about 1950, somewhere along in
there. I remember we used to have to meet in the old Bel Air Library with the roof leaking. It was really a converted church,
as I recall. We had library programs at the State level. We had some local support; and, gradually over the years, the library system has been built on a foundation which really was laid before I got into office. I think, Governor O'Connor, -- my recollection is -- about 1945, supported the State-wide library program which authorized any local government to create a local library board. From that time on, bricks have been laid and
improvements made to the system. I was involved as a library trustee for four years, providing money to build libraries. It's just been a continual process from that time. I remember I went
into Havre de Grace., they were the last ones to get a County Library. I helped them get that set up. I remember the lady who ran the local library was very upset with me because I was in favor or the County coming in and, really, replacing her service. I remember Mrs. Steiner, who's a good friend of mine, shook her umbrella in my face [chuckles] at a council meeting over there. [She was] very angry about the encouraging of the County system. She was a nice lady and a very public-spirited person. She just didn't like being ousted. And now, the library that was built then, is considered inadequate. We're having a lot of controversy
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about how to replace it; how to improve it; and that sort of thing.
JM: Many of the things you have been talking about have to do with
the growth that has occurred in the last, say, thrity years in Harford. Were you surprised at how much the area has developed? Or
WJ: Yes, it was. I was almost defeated on the issue of planiing and
zoning. I supported it in the legislature. There were many people who didn't like planning and zoning. It has its good and bad features. But, at least, it's given the County some ability to control the limitation of growth. One of the unfortunate things about it, though, it has not really channeled growth exactly where it should be. The chopping up of the agricultural wealth of Harford County is sad to see in many instances. I suppose, right now, Harford County is under threat Of being consumed by the urban sprawl. [You] really ought to have public policies to save some of Harford County's agricultural areas
because a lot are beautiful. There are a lot of natural,
beautiful areas in Harford County; they ought to be saved.
JM; You were also the Chairperson of the Democratic Party.
WJ: Oh, yes. I had a very interesting, almost four years, at that.
Harry Hughes preceded me. When he was appointed Secretary of Transportation in the spring of, -- goodness, I forget now -¬probably '71, I became a candidate. I had Mandel's support. It was a very educational experience. I attended several of the national conventions. I had a basic education in what happens in the Presidential nomination process. The people think they've elected a President in the general election, which is true to a
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limited extent. But, the various machinations that go on, the
"weeding out" of candidates., and the selection of the final
party candidate, really, in a way, is far more important than the general election because the people only have a couple of choices in a general election. Whereas, the party rules that govern the
selection of the Presidential candidate are just so important -¬and getting more important all the time. Prior to about 1960, the national rules were relatively unimportant because they had already the State delegation. Starting in the early '60's, the
national party began adopting a lot of rules about who would be accepted in the convention, until now, the national party completely dominates the scene. Unless the state follows certain rules in selecting its delegations, they can't get in. It doesn't make any difference what the state law says; it's Party practices
that prevail. The complexity of the Presidential nomination process is just unbelievable. Not too many people understand it. You have the problem of raising money and supporting all the Party functions. I remember when I was Party Chairman, at least
we did buy a headquarters. [We] never did have a headquarters
before. We established a very nice headquarters in Baltimore. We got a mortgage and were able, to make the down-payment
and make the payments. I understand
it's pretty nearly paid for by this time. So, that was my achievement. I never considered myself to be a particularly qualified Party Chairman. I'm really not a Party man by nature. I've worked so often with Republicans that it's pretty hard for me to get up and give a speech condemning them as "agents of the
Devil." I guess, maybe, I'm more of the Judicial
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temperament. I got along well with the Party people. I believe I got reasonably good marks; but, I can't actually say that I was as enthusiastic a Party partisan as maybe I should have been.
JM: How was it then, that you became the State Treasurer?
WJ: I never thought I would be State Treasurer. The history of the
position is that it's always been, up until 1975, a part-time position held by bankers. The State Treasurer has always been elected by the legislature. In the first Constitution of 1776 there was a provision that the State Treasurer be elected by the House of Delegates. They had two, one for the Eastern shore, and one for the Western shore. By 1940, they decided they only needed one; so, they eliminated the Treasurer for the Eastern shore. In the constitution of 1851 there was a provision that required both houses of the legislature to elect the Treasurer. However, in my memory, the Treasurer, although he was on the Board of Public Works, and had the power to go with that, made twenty five hundred dollars a year. The post was occupied by a fellow named Cooper Miles, who was President of the Maryland National Bank. Nobody ever saw him. He was sort of a mythical figure. However, he had control of the State money.and State insurance policy. He was a completely non-political figure. After he departed from the scene, -- he was Treasurer from 1935 until '63 -- a gentleman named John Luetkerneyer,(he was President of the Equitable Trust
Company), was named Treasurer by the legislature. He was
completely unknown to the legislature. It was the practicein
those days to accept the recommendation of the Governor. Winship Wheatley was assigned to present Mr. Luetkemeyer's name to the General Assembly. I don't think he ever met the gentleman. He
JAMES 18
couldn't pronounce his name; so, he spelled it. Everybody laughed. Here we were electing somebody we didn't even know. He turned out to be a very fine gentleman. I always had a great deal of respect for him. I think he probably did a better job than Cooper Miles. When I say that, I am probably speaking without sufficient information because I really didn't know Cooper Miles very well. His service went far back beyond my experience. I think J_uetkemeyer was a good public servant. However, he had the essential conflict that a banker has in handling State money. Nobody, no matter whom he was, could really handle that conflict to public satisfaction. The Washington Post had an interview with him one day. He explained to them how the
State funds were managed. This particular
reporter wrote a series of articles in which he charged that State funds were not being properly invested; that the banks were getting the advantage of funds on which they were paying no
interest. My chief deputy, Ed Shamel said, "that's
just not true; They're so cdmlicated [that] they just didn't
understand it." At least, this was the public impression, that
this series of articles gave to the legislature appointment
Committee. [They] decided:to change the whole system.
Legislation was introduced which converted the post into a full-time post and required. the treasurer to have no relationship to banks -- any relationship whatsoever. As a consequence of this legislation, a full-time post was available for candidates in January, 1975. I had made up my mind that .I was going to leave the legislature because of the conflicts with my profession as I previously explained to you. When this post became
JAMES 19
available, I decided to become a candidate for Treasurer.
It had some aspects that appealed to me. It would keep me Posted on the legislative operations. I would be the legislative representative on the Board of Public Works. I would be close to the Executive branch.and the State government in which I've always been very interested. It had a fiscal aspect to it which appealed to me. After I had looked the whole situation over, I decided it was a job I could handle and I had the governmental experience to do a good job. I was elected.
JM: We have covered pretty much of your active life. Do you regret
having contributed so much? It seems that you had to have so much time for all these many facets of government life, that your private life hasn't had as much time as you would have ordinarily given it.
WI: I don't look at it that way. When you do what you like, you're
not making any sacrifice. I missed my family and my wife. I didn't get married until I was forty years old, number one. And number two, my wife's, Margaret's, father was a court stenographer and he was also a lawyer; her brother was a lawyer. She had great familiarity with the life that a lawyer leads. I don't think she has run into any surprises. She's been very tolerant of my activities. I've always kept in touch with my family by telephone. I tried to keep all the contacts that I felt that I could. Of course, anybody who is busy is going to have the same problem -- soldiers and sailors; people in the diplomatic corps. Politicians aren't the only ones who devote themselves to activities that may keep them away from their families to a degree. It's just a matter of trying to organize your habits in
JAMES 20
a logical way so that you continue to maintain a good relationship. But, I don't regard myself as any kind of a self-sacrificing hero. I don't see how I could have lived a more pleasant existence. In many respects the life of law and government is one of the most pleasant of lives.
JM: Did you ever have times that you felt --
WJ: Sometimes you get tired. [laughter]
JM: Were there times of very much frustration between what the
constituents wanted and what you saw [that] government should be doing?
WJ: I had a philosophy. When I first went to the first session of the
legislature, John Clarke was a candidate for Speaker. He was unsuccessful. I'll never forget when he came back to his seat and sat down and turned to me and said, "The first rule oflife is: you don't get everything you want.' If you think that you are going to get everything you want in the political world, you are going to be greatly disappointed. You had to accept you victories with satisfaction and your defeats with resolution. If you don't win this time, maybe, you'll win next. There are some things that happened that I do regard with some degree of chagrin. I've always opposed the lottery. I think for the State of Maryland to be involved in urging people to gamble is a very unfortunate thing. It makes me a little bit ashamed of the State. Gambling is wrong. Not that I won't gamble a little bit. But, a consistent policy of gambling is wrong, because, generally speaking, it preaches the philosophy of "something for nothing." It's an invalid philosophy and one that you really shouldn't rely on to finance government. Number two, it takes from the many and gives
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to the few, generally speaking. And, that's not a sound philosophy. Things could go against what you believe. You have a choice: You can quit and say you won't have anything more to do with it; or, you can make up your mind to try harder.
JM: What happened with the thing they were trying to do to have a
new constitution? You were involved in that.
WJ: Yes; I spent four months in that constitutional convention in
1967. It was an excellent document. It would have made a good replacement for the present constitution. It met the approval of
scholars who looked at it as a model. But, we rubbed too
many political forces the wrong way. They coalesced
and defeated it in spite of the support of most of the leadership in Maryland. It had the touch of Vernon Eney who had
just recently died. Vernon Eney was a
brilliant fellow who insisted on perfection. Probably, there were some things in there you could have eliminated because of thei.r political distaste without hurting the document too much. Another thing that might have been done, it might have been split into eight or ten issues so [that] the opposition might have been split. But, that was not done. I can't say that I suggested it. For instance, they had put thingsinthere like raising the percentage of people that could petition to go to referendum, from three to five per cent. The opponents. said we were trying to kill democracy. That type of change is absolutely unimportant. But, it was the politically wrong thing to do. It affected the
sheriffs. and circuit court clerks. The idea of electing
the circuit court clerk is absolutely ridiculous. This affected
JAMES 22
that. All the courts, and their political influence, and all the heriffs and their political influence went against it.
These office& are anachronisms the way they are operated today. You appoint the Clerk of the Court to the-District-Court; you appoint the Clerk of the Court to the Court of AppealS and Special Court of Appeals. But, you elect the district clerk and the circuit clerk from Harford County; and nobody had the slightest idea when a person is a clerk, whether he's doing a good job or not. They just know he's Clerk of the Court. It's a hangover from nineteenth-century pure democracy. I believe the offices $ should be elected when they control policies; But, if they don't have any policy-making function, really you are crowding the ballot to the extent that people don't know what they're doing when they vote.
JM: What do you think State government should do for the people?
WJ: The purpose of government is to do things collectively for the
people which they can't do individually.
fend of side two, tape one]
Government should provide support for such
things as law enforcement. Adam Smith once said that government ought to defend the country and to keep the peace. He had one other thing which I've forgotten. He wanted to limit government to several things; but, the modern theory of government is that government is really basically an instrument of civilization. The problem is to keep the cost of government down to the point that the people can afford it. So, you really have the problem
JAMES 23
of trying to decide, in each instance, whether the cost of a particular program is worth what has to be paid for it. That's the big issue that's in the country today. You have a lot of different views on that. Some people think that government should support the arts, culture, the opera, theatre; the libraries and everything that goes into a cultured society. Others think "no" -- that private interests should support culture. When I was
in the legislature, I thought the government
did not support cultural institutions. When the issue arose to give the Baltimore Symphony fifty thousand dollars, it was a
unique issue. [There were] a lot of different opinions on it
in the legislature. That step should
be taken to follow the principle of non-support of the arts by government. It passed. And, now, we have an Artistic Properties Commission that gives a reasonable large appropriation of large corporations. Most of the cultural institutions like the
Baltimore Opera, the Maryland Ballet, the Maryland Institute
so forth and so on, have substantial State and Federal support. The ideas change from year to year on how far government should go in affecting the lives of people. To show you how much things have changed, when the State House was built, it did not have the dome. It was completed back in 1779; and, later it was decided to add the dome.. It was just about ten years later. During the construction of the dome, an Irish workman fell to his death. His widow petitioned the legislature for one of two options: either passage back to her native Ireland for herself and her child or a pension. The House of Delegates appointed a committee to study the request. They came back and recommended that she be given
JAMES 24
passage back to her native Ireland. The fun House considered the recommendation and voted it down and gave her nothing. She
was on her own. somebody should [chuckles] was something that an tolerate. Now, we have all kinds the unfortunate and the poor, the luck. It was probably an advance
individualistic society couldn't of social programs to assist people who are down on their for civilization; but, a lot of
people object to paying for it. [laughter]
JM: What do you see as Harford County's future?
WJ: I wrote an article for The Aegis, which you can get out and include
in this if you want to. I'm always trying to remember exactly
what I said. [chuckles] I'll give you a copy of it.
They asked me to analyze Harford County's future.for the year two thousand. It'll probably be more exciting; although, maybe, the population won't increase quite as fast. It might go up to a couple hundred thousand. I think it's a hundred and forty [thousand] now. It might increase in the next twenty years. But, I think the population growth has slowed because of, number one, the inadequate facilities to support construction; and, number two, the gas crunch.which is keeping people closer to the metropolitan area. I don't foresee particularly radical changes
in the next twenty years. I think you'll see more of the
sprawl. Probably we will continue to he dependent on the military. There'll be some industrial development; but in a large measure, it will continue to be a residential community. And you'll find, probably, some cultural activities will expand.
JAMES 25
The community college has been quite an instrument of culture. As people become more sophisticated, they more and more support the cultural aspects of life.
End of Interview

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Transcript

Interview by James E. Massey, Harford County Library, February 14, 1981
MASSEY: First thing I'd like to ask you about -- I see that you were born
in Aberdeen -- who were your parents and what did they do?
JAMES: My father, well, -- let's go back a little bit -- my great-
grandfather's name was John Manderson James. He lived in Philadelphia and he joined the Union Army in 1861. He served a three-year term and, after he was dicharged in the summer of 1864, he got a job with what became the Pennsylvania Railroad, There, of course, was a center in Philadelphia. He came down to work upon the first bridge that was constructed across the Susquehanna River at Havre de Grace. After he finished work there, he settled in Havre de Grace. He lived there for a while and then went to Aberdeen. He established a feed and grain, livery stable business, restaurant -- that type of thing. My grandfather continued it after he died. Of course, that's where my father was born. My father married my mother. Her name was Mary Beatrice Smith. After they were married, they settled in a house in Aberdeen near the railroad tracks and lived there a couple of years until World War I. About 1915, my father, who had gotten into the road-building and construction business, went to Hopewell, Virginia, and helped the Dupont Company build power plants during World War II. After the war was over, he came back to Harford County and bought a home in Havre de Grace, a farm known as the Old Bay Farm which adjoins the old Havre de Grace race track. That's where I live now.
3M: Where did you attend school?
JAMES 2
WJ: I went to the [chuckle] first grade in Elkton, Maryland, which
was my mother's home town; second grade in Havre de Grace; third grade in Elkton. Then I came back to Havre de Grace and went to Havre de Grace from fourth through the eighth grade. I went to
the old Tome School in Port Deposit four years. Graduated
in 1932. I went to the University of Delaware from '32 to '34; then I transferred to Law School and graduated there in 1937 -¬University of Maryland.
JM: When had you decided to be a lawyer?
WJ: I decided when I was in college at the University of Delaware. I
was pretty hard-up for money, and I was a little in doubt whether I would be able to spend four years In the liberal arts situation
and then continue for another three years. This was
the thirties when money was hard to come by. I had had a pretty good, basic education at the Tome School in a very disciplined way. We went to school six days a week there. The standards were very high; so that I felt that I had sufficient basic education to go to law school. In those days you could get into law school if you had sixty credits. I had quite a bit more than that. I decided to go directly to law school after two years of college.
JM: And then where did you open your practice?
WJ: Well, I had a pretty hard time getting started. I came to Bel Air.
I knew nobody. My father had been a friend of Ned Harlan's
father -- the present judge, Edwin H. W. Harlan. They had played
baseball together. Ned Harlan's father was a great athlete -- a famous athlete at Princeton. My father was a pretty good baseball player. They told me to to to see Ned -- Mr. Harlan as I called him in those days. I was 23 years old and pretty young to start
JAMES 3
to practice law. I recall that he was very nice to me when I introduced ma1q. Lt was, oyer here on Cou,rtland Street, J'ye
forgotten the address; but it's where the Republican Headquarters are now. He said, "Let's go upstairs and see what we have up there." We went upstairs. There was an outside entrance to it. We went up. It was an old, dusty area that looked as though it could qualify for a role in a haunted-house movie. And he said, "If you want to hang your hat here until you get your feet on the ground, you're welcome to do it." So, that's where I established myself for a few months. Then Mr. Phil Close gave me a space over here in the buildings now occupied by Cameron, Close and Reed at the corner of Bond and Office Streets. I had my
office up there for about a year or so. I wasn't doing too well. Business was poor. In those days, lawyers were pretty hard-up. They did most of the work themselves. After a couple of years, I got a bit discouraged. So, I got a job with the Maryland
Casualty Company working in the workmen's compensation side
of the Claims Department. I worked there for about a year. I transferred to the Title Guarantee Company and searched titles for about a year. That took me up to about-May of 1942, when I
determined that I was going to run for the legislature. I submitted my resignation to the Title Company. I happened to have a temporary job working in the JiUtual Reserve over at Delaware Park, a race track in Delaware. In those days the race meet was only thirty days. It ran from May thirtieth, Memorial Day, through July the fourth. I worked there duri-ng that period; after that I campaigned vigorously until the September primary. Unfortunately, I was fifth in a race in which the top four were
JAMES 4
elected.
At that point I was sort of at loose ends because I had burned all my bridges. But, about ten days later, I got a call
from Stewart Day, who was a practicing attorney here and later, judge. He asked me if I would like to come and help him with his
real estate title work. I had had a year of intensive experience
in that area with the Title Guarantee Company; so, I was
qualified to do the work that he wanted performed. I was quite delighted with the offer. I worked with him for about three years.
Glas:gow Archer, his law partner, returned from military service.
It made the office a little bit crowded. By that time I was ready to step out on my own. I found a spot with Mr. Charles H.
McComas whose picture is here on my wall. He had retired
from the legal department of the F. & B. Company. He was anxious to have somebody come in who was young and willing to work. So, we formed a partnership. That partnership lasted for about thirty two years. We had a very pleasant relationship. He brought the
business in; and I did the work. [chuckles] We had a very nice
time of it. Of course, I began to be more and more successful in the political world; so, I tried to work seven days a week and
cover both areas.
JM: How did you get an interest in politics?
WJ: My mother had sort of a political background. Her father was
Sheriff of Cecil County for a term. Also, he was in-the House of Delegates. In addition to that, of course, we had a United States senator, Millard E. Tydings, in our home town of Havre de Grace.
His presence sort of stimulated the interest of young people in the political world.
JAMES 5
3M: Now what were politics like in Harford County when you got
involved?
WJ: When I was in the early stages of political activities, the scene
was dominated by the Tydings-Archer organization. Of course, Millard Tydings was long past his involvement in local politics; but, he was associated with Major Robert H. Archer who was political king-pin in the County. They were pretty in for quite a long period of time, L suppose, covering from the twenties up through 1945 and were pretty well able to dominate the elections. I ran the first time without their support. However, I made such a good showing that Major Archer supported me when I ran in '46 for the Hous.e of Delegates.
I was successful on that occasion.
Of course, they had their local political forces in Havre de Grace. Havre de Grace was very active politically. They had very violent political fights. Usually the mayor,-George Pennington, was elected. He was a Tydings lieutenant. Try as they would for many, many years, they were never able to oust Pennington. Of course, he was able to bring his forces to
the support of the Tydings-Archer election efforts.
In Aberdeen Wilmer Cronin was the chief lieutenant of the Tydings-Archer forces. You had that axis of the three towns there: Havre de Grace, Aberdeen and Bel Air which were pretty dominant. You might say, if you could get all of them together, you could pretty nearly hang the balance of power. It went on for quite a while. But, it did disintegrate with Major Archer's death. I think he died in 1948 or 49; somewhere along in there. You really haven't had an organized political machine dominating
JAMES 6
Harford County politics since that time.
JM: What kind of problems, when you were finally elected to the house,
did you see? Was it much like it is today? Or, was it a much, more simpler place?
WJ: The population was not nearly as great when I was elected to the
House of Delegates. Harford County had about forty thousand
people. [There was] no demand to the County to provide any
urban services. The law enforcement problems were relatively simple. Harford County, except for the three towns, was largely rural. The farmers were much stronger politically than they are now. When I was first elected, World War I was just finished. We had a new school superintendent, Dr. Charles W. Willis. He organized a study of Harford County's school buildings. They came back with a report that most of the school buildings in Harford County were in pretty sad shape. We organized a fiscal drive to start re-building the capital plan of the school
buildings. We developed a four million dollar bond bill in the
legislature. [We] held a big public hearing; the County
commissioners, by a vote of three to two, decided to issue the bonds. Milton Walker, as I recall, and Lee Linkoos -¬it was by split vote; I've forgotten the names of the commissioners. They supported it, and we built this Bel Air high school over
here and some other buildings. That started a long-range program. In large measure, the whole school plan witha couple of exceptions, that has been built, we built in Harford County. When I left office, I could almost say we didn't really have a bad school building in the County, with one or two exceptions.
JM: When you went down to Annapolis, what kind of atmosphere
JAMES 7
[did you find.] Was it what you expected? What was it like
when you went down in '46'
WJ: In those days the House of Delegates consisted of one hundred
twenty three members.. When you're just one of one hundred twenty three, you really don't have much political power. You hoped you would get assigned to a favorable committee. However, if you were not on either the Ways and Means Committee or the House Judiciary Committee, which had about twenty five members each, you realty didn't have too much to do because most of the important legislation went to those two committees. They had a mxriad of other committees, such as the Alcoholic Beverage Committee, Chesapeake Bay Tributaries Committee, and heaven knows what else. Those committees would just meet once in a while; and the hills they handled were of minor consequence. Basically, what you had was a House with maybe a third of the members, maybe fifty of the members, actively working every day in committee handling important matters with the remainder not too busily occupied with committee work. They had their own floor sessions;
but, they were not used to the maximum. [inaudible]
Governor William Preston Lana had been elected to that session. He recognized the fact that Maryland's Capital Plant needed a lot of improvement; plus the fact that the school teachers were being poorly paN; the local governments' needed help. So, he supported the sales tax to provide the money to meet all the obligations to the State. He got into a big controversy over that which ultimately resulted in his defeat in 1950.
There was another program in that session which was known
JAMES 8
as the Sherbow Report or Plan. That was a revenue-sharing program of the counties. For instance, a portion of the racing revenue, a portion of the income tax, a portion of this and that certain tax revenue was sent back to the counties by the State to help relieve the burden on real estate tax. Maryland was really a pioneer in revenue-sharing with the local subdivisions. Those were two of the big things in that particular session. Hundreds, almost literally thousands, of things happen in a legislative session.. I have to go back to my records to really see what did happen.
JM: Were you accepted with your colleagues or were you sort of an
independent person down there?
WJ: I don't know whether I was or not. You never do anything by
yourself in a political world; so, anybody who thinks he's an independent and can get anything done, is just living in a dream-world. I did have a nice committee assignment. I was on the House Judiciary Committee. I kept busy and made a lot of good contacts and good friends. However, I can't say that I was a heavy-weight.
JM: What made your decision to go on to the State senate?
WJ: I'd served for eight years in:the House and I think I made a
good record. Eventually the Senate opened up. I believe Paul
J'lcNabb, who-was in the Senate, was appointed to the bench.
Robert R. Lauter was appointed temporarily to hold his position; but, he didn't run again. So, there was a vacancy in the Senate. I turned out to be the logical candidate for, the Senate.
JM: Now, who were your fellow delegates from Harford County when you
were in there?
JAMES 9
WJ: The first tern there was a gentleman named Earl Burkins; he was
an Archer-lieutenant; [and] John E. Clarke who's still
practicing law here in Harford County. Mr. Burkins is dead.
[Also,] a fellow named James J. DeRan who, I believe, is
still living in the upper part of the County. The composition of
the House changed [in the] second session. I believe DeRan
was defeated and Mary W. Ris.teau was elected.
A Freeborn Brown and Rush Baldwin --• they're the ones I served with in the House.when 1 was there.
JM: Do you remember very much ---we weren't able to get an interview
before Miss Risteau died -- what was she like? I'm
sort of curious.
WJ: Oh, yes. I remember her very well. She and I got along rather
well. Let's put it that way. She was a great talker. They were going to make me chairman of the delegation; but, she got so upset when they suggested it to her, that I just said, "Well, let the
lady be chairman and avoid all arguments." I bowed in her
direction in that case. I can't say we were particularly
harmonious. She was on the Ways and Means Committee in the House and I was on the Judiciary Committee. Our paths really didn't cross too much. She was involved more with the State finances. We had cordial relations; but, I can't say we ever worked together in governmental programs.
aM: What was the relationship between the members of the House
and the commissioners back in Bel Air?
WJ: I never had any trouble with the Commissioners_. During my tern
in the legislature we met periodically once a week to discuss problems and then from time to time we'd come back and discuss
JAMES 10
problems with the local governments. Of course, that was
before the time of home rule. The legislative delegation
really had the final say on the amendment of local laws. I remember one instance in which the Commissioners refused to buy voting machines for Harford County. We passed a law making it compulsory for them to buy them. So, if you couldn't get anything done over here, why, you could appeal to the legislative delegation and try to get your law through at Annapolis. Since about '72 you can't do that because Of charter, government. Legislators had a lot of responsibility and local power.
JM: Was there a lot of demand for your constituents for you in the
House?
WJ: Harford County is a pretty nice place to represent because I
never felt the Harford County constituents were very demanding. There were some areas of the State where they would almost drive the representatives crazy. I found the people of Harford County to be, in the most instances, very reasonable.
JM: When you went into the Senate, how different was that for you?
WJ: You had a lot more power in the Senate. You were one of 29.
You figure there's a certain percentage of Republicans, and
you have a certain amount of power because you're one of the majority party. I happened to be on the winning side when I went to the organization of the .Senate. So, I immediately was assigned to the Senate Finance Committee. which was very powerful in the fiscal area. From that time on I just built my political fences, tried to improve the respect of my colleagues., and tried to keep my constituents happy. And, I was fortunate to be able to do so.
JM: Do you remember some of the issues that had come up during your
JAMES 11
tern in the Senate that were pretty important in Harford?
WJ: No, I couldn't. I've compiled my recollections, (which I haven't
finished), and the innumerable issues, the important issues that I've sifted out and. recorded in my written recollections.are there. I'd have to go back and look at them because it's all jumbled together, when I think about it, in one big experience. To identify when issues developed and what they were is almost a research job.
JM: How was it that someone from Harford County could become the
President of the Senate?
WJ: Anytime you achieve political distinction, there's a lot of luck
involved. You have to be the man of the moment. Number one, George Della who was the President of the Senate, was
defeated in 1962. That left a vacancy. If he hadn't been defeated, why then, there would have been no vacancy. In those days the Governor was extremely influential in assisting in the organization of the legislature. There were a number of people who were considered. One of them, (I'm not going to mention any names), was an able fellow; but, he drank too much liquor.
They were just a little bit leary of him. Tawes was from
the Eastern Shore. He didn't want the legislative organization over-balanced toward the Eastern shore. He had to look to the Western shore. He had to look at who had top leadership in the House. He didn't want to give the leadership to the same geographical area. As I recall, Baltimore County had the
leadership in the House. That sort of eliminated the
Baltimore County senator. By process of elimination, they got
down to me. I really was not a candidate until Governor Tawes
JAMES 12
sent a representative to me. [end of side one, tape one]
We met in a restaurant in Aberdeen and he asked me if I'd be interested in being President of the Senate. I said, "Yes; I'd be interested." I got a call from Winship Wheatley a little bit later. He said, "Would you agree to an organization as the President of the Senate with me as majority leader and Malkus as Chairman of the Judiciary Committee?" I said, "Yes, I'll agree to that." When we met with the Democratic caucus, it was all set up. So, I became President. From that time on, things seemed to break in my favor. I was re-elected. We had a Republican Governor the next time; so, the Governor was out of it. The members continued me in office. Then, when Mandel became Governor, he and I were on friendly terms. He supported me again for a third term. It just seemed to be a chain of events there that continued me in office.
JM: Was it a very demanding position?
WJ: Yes; very. It almost consumed my life. It ruined my law practice
because the demands of the office were so great. Eventually, it reached a point that I was either going to have to become a full-time public official or a full-time lawyer. I couldn't be both. That's why I decided to retire.
JM: While you were in the Senate, were political changes occurring
here in Harford County?
JAMES 13
WJ: Harford County was increasing in population all the time.
hh This brought urban problems. I had drafted the legislation
to create the Harford County Metropolitan Commission
which began to supply urban sewerage and water services. I was able to get to do many things like helping to create the Harford
Community College, We had really two problems. We had the
local problems to solve and then we had to face the State-wide problems. You had to sort of divide yourself into two parts. Being President of the Senate tends to divorce you from the local point of view because you have to be interested in solving State problems. You have difficulty in blending the local point of view with the State point of view; and sometimes it's a good way of getting into trouble back home. If you vote to give Baltimore city aid, which, by all rights, from the State point of view, they should have, you are not going to be particularly popular in Harford County.
We got the Citizens' Nursing Home established. It provides
ambulatory services for the Harford Memorial Hospital. We
contributed to the expansion and improvement of the hospital. We did everything. We built schools. Let's see -- built the Community College; built the Kennedy Highway; We were deeply involved in everything that was happening here locally. We established the Department of Parks and Recreation which administers Program Open Space; the Susquehanna State Park; Rocks State Park. Those are a few samples of-the types of things that I and my colleagdes'.in, the legislature --
JAMES 14
Of course, you need the cooperation of the local government to
do a lot of these things. As they say, the secret of being a
good representative is to work with the people. You can't really a lone eagle and get much done. You take a year in the
library in which you operate. I was on the original Board of Trustees from about 1947 until about 1950, somewhere along in
there. I remember we used to have to meet in the old Bel Air Library with the roof leaking. It was really a converted church,
as I recall. We had library programs at the State level. We had some local support; and, gradually over the years, the library system has been built on a foundation which really was laid before I got into office. I think, Governor O'Connor, -- my recollection is -- about 1945, supported the State-wide library program which authorized any local government to create a local library board. From that time on, bricks have been laid and
improvements made to the system. I was involved as a library trustee for four years, providing money to build libraries. It's just been a continual process from that time. I remember I went
into Havre de Grace., they were the last ones to get a County Library. I helped them get that set up. I remember the lady who ran the local library was very upset with me because I was in favor or the County coming in and, really, replacing her service. I remember Mrs. Steiner, who's a good friend of mine, shook her umbrella in my face [chuckles] at a council meeting over there. [She was] very angry about the encouraging of the County system. She was a nice lady and a very public-spirited person. She just didn't like being ousted. And now, the library that was built then, is considered inadequate. We're having a lot of controversy
JAMES 15
about how to replace it; how to improve it; and that sort of thing.
JM: Many of the things you have been talking about have to do with
the growth that has occurred in the last, say, thrity years in Harford. Were you surprised at how much the area has developed? Or
WJ: Yes, it was. I was almost defeated on the issue of planiing and
zoning. I supported it in the legislature. There were many people who didn't like planning and zoning. It has its good and bad features. But, at least, it's given the County some ability to control the limitation of growth. One of the unfortunate things about it, though, it has not really channeled growth exactly where it should be. The chopping up of the agricultural wealth of Harford County is sad to see in many instances. I suppose, right now, Harford County is under threat Of being consumed by the urban sprawl. [You] really ought to have public policies to save some of Harford County's agricultural areas
because a lot are beautiful. There are a lot of natural,
beautiful areas in Harford County; they ought to be saved.
JM; You were also the Chairperson of the Democratic Party.
WJ: Oh, yes. I had a very interesting, almost four years, at that.
Harry Hughes preceded me. When he was appointed Secretary of Transportation in the spring of, -- goodness, I forget now -¬probably '71, I became a candidate. I had Mandel's support. It was a very educational experience. I attended several of the national conventions. I had a basic education in what happens in the Presidential nomination process. The people think they've elected a President in the general election, which is true to a
JAMES 16
limited extent. But, the various machinations that go on, the
"weeding out" of candidates., and the selection of the final
party candidate, really, in a way, is far more important than the general election because the people only have a couple of choices in a general election. Whereas, the party rules that govern the
selection of the Presidential candidate are just so important -¬and getting more important all the time. Prior to about 1960, the national rules were relatively unimportant because they had already the State delegation. Starting in the early '60's, the
national party began adopting a lot of rules about who would be accepted in the convention, until now, the national party completely dominates the scene. Unless the state follows certain rules in selecting its delegations, they can't get in. It doesn't make any difference what the state law says; it's Party practices
that prevail. The complexity of the Presidential nomination process is just unbelievable. Not too many people understand it. You have the problem of raising money and supporting all the Party functions. I remember when I was Party Chairman, at least
we did buy a headquarters. [We] never did have a headquarters
before. We established a very nice headquarters in Baltimore. We got a mortgage and were able, to make the down-payment
and make the payments. I understand
it's pretty nearly paid for by this time. So, that was my achievement. I never considered myself to be a particularly qualified Party Chairman. I'm really not a Party man by nature. I've worked so often with Republicans that it's pretty hard for me to get up and give a speech condemning them as "agents of the
Devil." I guess, maybe, I'm more of the Judicial
JAMES 17
temperament. I got along well with the Party people. I believe I got reasonably good marks; but, I can't actually say that I was as enthusiastic a Party partisan as maybe I should have been.
JM: How was it then, that you became the State Treasurer?
WJ: I never thought I would be State Treasurer. The history of the
position is that it's always been, up until 1975, a part-time position held by bankers. The State Treasurer has always been elected by the legislature. In the first Constitution of 1776 there was a provision that the State Treasurer be elected by the House of Delegates. They had two, one for the Eastern shore, and one for the Western shore. By 1940, they decided they only needed one; so, they eliminated the Treasurer for the Eastern shore. In the constitution of 1851 there was a provision that required both houses of the legislature to elect the Treasurer. However, in my memory, the Treasurer, although he was on the Board of Public Works, and had the power to go with that, made twenty five hundred dollars a year. The post was occupied by a fellow named Cooper Miles, who was President of the Maryland National Bank. Nobody ever saw him. He was sort of a mythical figure. However, he had control of the State money.and State insurance policy. He was a completely non-political figure. After he departed from the scene, -- he was Treasurer from 1935 until '63 -- a gentleman named John Luetkerneyer,(he was President of the Equitable Trust
Company), was named Treasurer by the legislature. He was
completely unknown to the legislature. It was the practicein
those days to accept the recommendation of the Governor. Winship Wheatley was assigned to present Mr. Luetkemeyer's name to the General Assembly. I don't think he ever met the gentleman. He
JAMES 18
couldn't pronounce his name; so, he spelled it. Everybody laughed. Here we were electing somebody we didn't even know. He turned out to be a very fine gentleman. I always had a great deal of respect for him. I think he probably did a better job than Cooper Miles. When I say that, I am probably speaking without sufficient information because I really didn't know Cooper Miles very well. His service went far back beyond my experience. I think J_uetkemeyer was a good public servant. However, he had the essential conflict that a banker has in handling State money. Nobody, no matter whom he was, could really handle that conflict to public satisfaction. The Washington Post had an interview with him one day. He explained to them how the
State funds were managed. This particular
reporter wrote a series of articles in which he charged that State funds were not being properly invested; that the banks were getting the advantage of funds on which they were paying no
interest. My chief deputy, Ed Shamel said, "that's
just not true; They're so cdmlicated [that] they just didn't
understand it." At least, this was the public impression, that
this series of articles gave to the legislature appointment
Committee. [They] decided:to change the whole system.
Legislation was introduced which converted the post into a full-time post and required. the treasurer to have no relationship to banks -- any relationship whatsoever. As a consequence of this legislation, a full-time post was available for candidates in January, 1975. I had made up my mind that .I was going to leave the legislature because of the conflicts with my profession as I previously explained to you. When this post became
JAMES 19
available, I decided to become a candidate for Treasurer.
It had some aspects that appealed to me. It would keep me Posted on the legislative operations. I would be the legislative representative on the Board of Public Works. I would be close to the Executive branch.and the State government in which I've always been very interested. It had a fiscal aspect to it which appealed to me. After I had looked the whole situation over, I decided it was a job I could handle and I had the governmental experience to do a good job. I was elected.
JM: We have covered pretty much of your active life. Do you regret
having contributed so much? It seems that you had to have so much time for all these many facets of government life, that your private life hasn't had as much time as you would have ordinarily given it.
WI: I don't look at it that way. When you do what you like, you're
not making any sacrifice. I missed my family and my wife. I didn't get married until I was forty years old, number one. And number two, my wife's, Margaret's, father was a court stenographer and he was also a lawyer; her brother was a lawyer. She had great familiarity with the life that a lawyer leads. I don't think she has run into any surprises. She's been very tolerant of my activities. I've always kept in touch with my family by telephone. I tried to keep all the contacts that I felt that I could. Of course, anybody who is busy is going to have the same problem -- soldiers and sailors; people in the diplomatic corps. Politicians aren't the only ones who devote themselves to activities that may keep them away from their families to a degree. It's just a matter of trying to organize your habits in
JAMES 20
a logical way so that you continue to maintain a good relationship. But, I don't regard myself as any kind of a self-sacrificing hero. I don't see how I could have lived a more pleasant existence. In many respects the life of law and government is one of the most pleasant of lives.
JM: Did you ever have times that you felt --
WJ: Sometimes you get tired. [laughter]
JM: Were there times of very much frustration between what the
constituents wanted and what you saw [that] government should be doing?
WJ: I had a philosophy. When I first went to the first session of the
legislature, John Clarke was a candidate for Speaker. He was unsuccessful. I'll never forget when he came back to his seat and sat down and turned to me and said, "The first rule oflife is: you don't get everything you want.' If you think that you are going to get everything you want in the political world, you are going to be greatly disappointed. You had to accept you victories with satisfaction and your defeats with resolution. If you don't win this time, maybe, you'll win next. There are some things that happened that I do regard with some degree of chagrin. I've always opposed the lottery. I think for the State of Maryland to be involved in urging people to gamble is a very unfortunate thing. It makes me a little bit ashamed of the State. Gambling is wrong. Not that I won't gamble a little bit. But, a consistent policy of gambling is wrong, because, generally speaking, it preaches the philosophy of "something for nothing." It's an invalid philosophy and one that you really shouldn't rely on to finance government. Number two, it takes from the many and gives
JAMES 21
to the few, generally speaking. And, that's not a sound philosophy. Things could go against what you believe. You have a choice: You can quit and say you won't have anything more to do with it; or, you can make up your mind to try harder.
JM: What happened with the thing they were trying to do to have a
new constitution? You were involved in that.
WJ: Yes; I spent four months in that constitutional convention in
1967. It was an excellent document. It would have made a good replacement for the present constitution. It met the approval of
scholars who looked at it as a model. But, we rubbed too
many political forces the wrong way. They coalesced
and defeated it in spite of the support of most of the leadership in Maryland. It had the touch of Vernon Eney who had
just recently died. Vernon Eney was a
brilliant fellow who insisted on perfection. Probably, there were some things in there you could have eliminated because of thei.r political distaste without hurting the document too much. Another thing that might have been done, it might have been split into eight or ten issues so [that] the opposition might have been split. But, that was not done. I can't say that I suggested it. For instance, they had put thingsinthere like raising the percentage of people that could petition to go to referendum, from three to five per cent. The opponents. said we were trying to kill democracy. That type of change is absolutely unimportant. But, it was the politically wrong thing to do. It affected the
sheriffs. and circuit court clerks. The idea of electing
the circuit court clerk is absolutely ridiculous. This affected
JAMES 22
that. All the courts, and their political influence, and all the heriffs and their political influence went against it.
These office& are anachronisms the way they are operated today. You appoint the Clerk of the Court to the-District-Court; you appoint the Clerk of the Court to the Court of AppealS and Special Court of Appeals. But, you elect the district clerk and the circuit clerk from Harford County; and nobody had the slightest idea when a person is a clerk, whether he's doing a good job or not. They just know he's Clerk of the Court. It's a hangover from nineteenth-century pure democracy. I believe the offices $ should be elected when they control policies; But, if they don't have any policy-making function, really you are crowding the ballot to the extent that people don't know what they're doing when they vote.
JM: What do you think State government should do for the people?
WJ: The purpose of government is to do things collectively for the
people which they can't do individually.
fend of side two, tape one]
Government should provide support for such
things as law enforcement. Adam Smith once said that government ought to defend the country and to keep the peace. He had one other thing which I've forgotten. He wanted to limit government to several things; but, the modern theory of government is that government is really basically an instrument of civilization. The problem is to keep the cost of government down to the point that the people can afford it. So, you really have the problem
JAMES 23
of trying to decide, in each instance, whether the cost of a particular program is worth what has to be paid for it. That's the big issue that's in the country today. You have a lot of different views on that. Some people think that government should support the arts, culture, the opera, theatre; the libraries and everything that goes into a cultured society. Others think "no" -- that private interests should support culture. When I was
in the legislature, I thought the government
did not support cultural institutions. When the issue arose to give the Baltimore Symphony fifty thousand dollars, it was a
unique issue. [There were] a lot of different opinions on it
in the legislature. That step should
be taken to follow the principle of non-support of the arts by government. It passed. And, now, we have an Artistic Properties Commission that gives a reasonable large appropriation of large corporations. Most of the cultural institutions like the
Baltimore Opera, the Maryland Ballet, the Maryland Institute
so forth and so on, have substantial State and Federal support. The ideas change from year to year on how far government should go in affecting the lives of people. To show you how much things have changed, when the State House was built, it did not have the dome. It was completed back in 1779; and, later it was decided to add the dome.. It was just about ten years later. During the construction of the dome, an Irish workman fell to his death. His widow petitioned the legislature for one of two options: either passage back to her native Ireland for herself and her child or a pension. The House of Delegates appointed a committee to study the request. They came back and recommended that she be given
JAMES 24
passage back to her native Ireland. The fun House considered the recommendation and voted it down and gave her nothing. She
was on her own. somebody should [chuckles] was something that an tolerate. Now, we have all kinds the unfortunate and the poor, the luck. It was probably an advance
individualistic society couldn't of social programs to assist people who are down on their for civilization; but, a lot of
people object to paying for it. [laughter]
JM: What do you see as Harford County's future?
WJ: I wrote an article for The Aegis, which you can get out and include
in this if you want to. I'm always trying to remember exactly
what I said. [chuckles] I'll give you a copy of it.
They asked me to analyze Harford County's future.for the year two thousand. It'll probably be more exciting; although, maybe, the population won't increase quite as fast. It might go up to a couple hundred thousand. I think it's a hundred and forty [thousand] now. It might increase in the next twenty years. But, I think the population growth has slowed because of, number one, the inadequate facilities to support construction; and, number two, the gas crunch.which is keeping people closer to the metropolitan area. I don't foresee particularly radical changes
in the next twenty years. I think you'll see more of the
sprawl. Probably we will continue to he dependent on the military. There'll be some industrial development; but in a large measure, it will continue to be a residential community. And you'll find, probably, some cultural activities will expand.
JAMES 25
The community college has been quite an instrument of culture. As people become more sophisticated, they more and more support the cultural aspects of life.
End of Interview