A Heated Debate Between Two Charismatic Geniuses: A Cardinal Fan (Jeff Lung) and a Tiger Fan (Allen Krause)

The Filibuster

Mike Ditka arguably did less with more than any other coach in NFL
history. Is it more accurate to argue that the MLB equivalent of Mike
Ditka is Joe Torre or Tony LaRussa?

–Allen

Mr. Krause, as much as it pains me, I must give you credit for being as brazen and careless as you look. Though my supporters would very much like for me to chastise you for your ignorance, I will not willingly attack your character, except to say that you are completely retarded.

Even hinting at the idea that it is acceptable to compare managerial expertise in baseball with football coaching is heinous enough — but to make such a blasphemous claim that either Joe Torre or Tony LaRussa has failed in some aspect of their respective careers is an absolute aberration in of itself.

Less with more? Really, Al? You really believe that? Is taking your team to the playoffs seven times in eleven years with pitching staffs that have included the likes of Donovan Osborne, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Suppan and Jeff Weaver considered doing less with more? Is winning the NL Central Division title six times in eleven years considered doing less with more? Is making two World Series appearances in the last four years and winning the whole thing after having to defeat the New York Mets and Detroit Tigers while having an overwhelmingly inferior pitching staff considered doing less with more, Al? For real? And, Al, I haven’t even touched on Tony’s Oakland and Chicago days. Less with more? Bite your slanderous tongue, my friend. How about being third on the all-time wins list with 2,375? Considering that the Cardinals (and A’s and White Sox) haven’t had the luxury of pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into their payrolls, I contest your outlandish claim and set you straight that if anything, TLR has done more with less!

And I know your personal bias towards all things Evil Empire prevents you from making any rational observations and/or decisions when it comes to the likes of Joe Torre, Al, but come on, he managed his team to four World Series titles in five years (1996-2000) and even after that surge, he continued to get them to the Series in 2001 and 2003. In fact, he was only one Gonzo bloop single away from winning four in a row. Sure, his time had run out in New York, yes, that’ s true; but he might just take his new team to the World Series again this year and with all that sun and the absence of anyone named Steinbrenner breathing down his neck, I say he won’t have any problems producing wins. Having racked up 2,067 of them so far, Mr. Krause, it is quite obvious that he is no slacker. Less with more? Please. You turn my stomach.

Ditka has been labeled with the stigma of doing less with more because he had a team that had all the potential in the world to become a dynasty. It never did.

Tony LaRussa’s Oakland A’s were in the World Series from 1988 to 1990. Since 1996, his St. Louis Cardinals have been a perennial contender. The man has won a World Series in both leagues. He hasn’t had an owner willing to pass out blank checks either, which is all the more reason to celebrate his greatness. He is innovative, strong-willed and brilliant. He has gotten more out of his teams than anyone else would and he’s only behind Connie Mack and John McGraw in all-time wins.

And there’s no question that Torre had a dynasty, Al. The New York Yankees have been the bane of our existences for the last eleven years because he has managed them to so much success. Less with more? Please, check yourself before you wreck yourself, Al.

I know it won’t be easy for you, but you have to see the Truth in what I say. And I urge you not to hate me ‘cuz I’m right.

Peace,

Jeffy

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2 Comments

It is hard to look at TLR and Joe Torre as managers that did less with more. When I stand back and look from an impartial standpoint, one of the managers stands out more than the other. With TLR, I have no issues. I think that he has done a good job with the players that he has been given over the years. There have been injuries and unfortunate deaths throughout his tenure with the Cardinals that I feel he has handled pretty well. Would I like to see a few more banners with a St. Louis Cardinals World Series on it, absolutely. However, he has done well.
Joe Torre, on the contrary, did have some issues towards the end of his reign with da Yankees. The main issue that I would have with Joe is the substantial payroll that he had in comparison to every other team in MLB. In the 4 years between 2003-2006, the Yankees spent an average of over $70,000,000 more than the next club. In 2007, Boston increased their spending and the Yankees only spent a little over $51,000,000 more. With this gargantuate amount of money and the type of caliber of players that Torre had, it can definately be argued that he did less with more. He had stars in Jeter, AROD (2004), Posada, not to mention a juiced up Clemens, Giambi and Pettite. He could have done better and I feel that for a team of this caliber, with this payroll, the standard should be set higher than the expectations that Torre met during the end of his career.

You make a point on Torre, Tim. But still, they were in the playoffs every year for the longest time under Torre. And in the latter years they had terrible pitching. With 4 rings on his hand, I find it hard to dis the guy.

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