Nosuperstition wrote:Slavery in ancient India by Dev Raj Chanana is a book given by one famous old forum member named THHuxley.However it is true that chattel slavery was already done away possibly to a great extent within Hinduism by the time Islam arrived.

Greek diplomat of Mauritania court noticed the absence of Greek style slavery in India. At a same time they noticed poor treatment and servitude of domestic servants.

Kautilya Arthashstra talks about bonded labors and their rights. It doesn't talk about slave markets or slave price or advocate how to capture slaves and make money. By Mauryan time caste system was in place and it served purpose of getting cheap labor from lower castes.

Nosuperstition wrote:In the discovery channel/National geographic channel they showed the Angkor wat temple in Cambodia ,the largest Hindu temple in the world before it was turned into a Buddhist place of worship and said that constructing such huge structures is not possible without slave labour or captive labour of defeated rival tribes.

I think it's all a matter of degree rather than kind. You can't have massive projects like vast temples, cathedrals or especially pyramids without subverting people's normal activities into building vanity projects. This requires people in power to demand such activities of people not in power be the slaves, serf or taxpayers*.

I saw a TV programme recently which credited the building of the Egyptian pyramids with creating Egyptian civilisation. Take your pick: a monstrously inefficient way of producing a civilisation or a massive subversion of human effort which could otherwise have achieved civilisation much more easily and less tyrannically.

*UK residents might think of the HS2 vanity project!

"If a woman passes one kilometer from someone who is praying, is the prayer canceled then? What is the maximum distance from which a prayer is cancelled altogether?" Majid Oukacha

In case of Egyptian pyramids we do have detail record of where labor lived, how they worked and how little they got for their toils. The Egyptian peasants often did it willingly. May be they were brainwashed but they believed that Pharrohs were living gods. In return Pharrohs built dams, big irrigation lakes and canals to serve peasants. Civilizeation produced enough grain to sustain whole ME and nearby civilizations.For modern man it's hard to understand but ancients really believed in living gods meaning their Kings demons, angels punishments in this world as well as next. They had no books by Karl Marx or Mao or humanist manifesto of FFI!They depicted in pairings how pyramids were built. Everything was not done by beating hell out of poor peasants to build monuments! In case of ancients or even some Moderns behave in same way!show them a flag or Koran , give out free flags etc.and they all will die in foreign wars , or kill others to defend their interests willingly and if you dare to question them they may use Semiautomatics against you!! Even Lenin and Mao didn't use force to convince people to join the movement!Force followed later.Its all about altering human mind !

I think it's all a matter of degree rather than kind. You can't have massive projects like vast temples, cathedrals or especially pyramids without subverting people's normal activities into building vanity projects. This requires people in power to demand such activities of people not in power be the slaves, serf or taxpayers*.

I have also seen huge buildings in the West which are of day to day use.I do see such things in India but only in the metros and that too a few here and there.Would their construction also involve huge amounts of money and do people believe that they are worth constructing?And may be the newly discovered fossil fuels lessen the manual labour needed for such buildings.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

.For modern man it's hard to understand but ancients really believed in living gods meaning their Kings demons, angels punishments in this world as well as next. They had no books by Karl Marx or Mao or humanist manifesto of FFI

I too haven't read any books of Karl Marx or Mao.However from the films and emotional soul stirring music they play in the Communist films,I had a positive opinion on them.When Jaswant ,my classmate from class 6th to class 10th whose father was a Marathi Brahmin and mother a Tamil Brahmin sung a Telugu song in which the puller of rickshaw says that my blood is my petrol,I think there do exist others beyond me who had a positive opinion about Maoists.And with regards to the accounts where religion and science contradict each other,as sum pointed out,repeated reinforcements by means of continuous rituals erased the scientific accounts for most periods from my mind.Those accounts came back into my memory only after getting stuck to FFI for quite long long periods.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

And the final straw that completely instilled a disbelief in the authority of the Brahmins without any loss of memory by circling round and round in my mind is when I read about the famous quote from the Deist Mr Thomas Alva Edison whose invention , the electric bulbs adorn Hindu temples on a large scale as of today.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

idesigner1 wrote:Once masses read message of their saviour it all changed and it established itself a liberating theology of this world and here after!where almost everything can be forgiven. It became religion of liberalism

Modern day liberalism in the West is a result of post WW-II conditions , the aftermath of which are akin to what was described in the Bhagavat Geeta due to a disproportinate female to male ratio.

When I was studying between my 6th and 10th in the missionary school,there existed a physical training master whose name is Emmanuel/Immanuel.Now his favourite hobby during free time was going near girls like Sweta (literally meaning one who is white even though she was not white) and Sameera or others and chatting endlessly with them.Now I somehow had the feeling that what he was doing was wrong though I never got the thought of viewing it from a religious angle.

Similarly when I was going to EAMCET coaching,once I went to the class a bit late.Then seeing most boys' seats filled up,my tuition sir named Siva Kumar Reddy of Nellore jokingly asked me to sit beside girls.As Yohan noted , Hindus even today separate the sexes in modes of transport as well as in classrooms.When I said no,a Christian classmate named Naveen Ebenzer said that I would gladly do so.Suddenly from the jovial mood,Siva Kumar Reddy turned serious and asked him whether he would allow his sister , elder or younger to be seated besides boys.Even in this case I did not see things in religious angle.

Him asking was the same as diotima64 of these forums asking one rabid old forummer desi,true or otherwise of supposed North Indian Hindi origin living in Mumbai whether he would love his sister or mother to be killed by extremists and him replying that his sister or mother are not going around and knocking all doors telling them that they would go to everlasting hell for not bowing down to Christ.

Both these people were trying to put to use the ultimate principle of Golden rule to their advantage.

However in the old forum when Hindus and Yohan were resorting to slurs against one another,one person said that in India,Christian women have a quite quite bad image as sluts and Yohan said that almost all the prostitutes in India are Hindus,yet Christian women get tagged as sluts.When I remember that right now,I understand that people see many things in religious angles.

Now there is another story which an acquaintance told me.In it all the pupils of the class decided to go for excursion,yet in the final moments the decision was made to change the destination to the Hindu holy site of Srisailam in Andhra Pradesh.The rich Christian classmates of that person should have protested by getting down or the Hindu decision makers should have changed the site.Yet none objected/reacted immediately.However after a while the rich Dalit Christians who also supposedly get SC/ST scholarships started drinking and making noise etc perhaps as they did not like going to a Hindu pilgrimage centre.Of course it is not just a pilgrim centre but also a picturesque natural spot.

All this only shows that liberalism will only be tolerated briefly,but as had happened in case of Trump,reactionary conservative forces will take hold once others like Muslims point fingers at your morality.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

Once masses read message of their saviour it all changed and it established itself a liberating theology of this world and here after!where almost everything can be forgiven. It became religion of liberalism

When I was in my Engg.,there existed a Christian classmate of mine whose name was Praveen.Now just like Hindus who pray before exams,he too used to read the Bible before exams.It was a very small book,seemingly much edited.Now when I read the same in the old forum about existence of different Bibles for different people with the original true version being available only to a few theologians and researchers ,I understood that that indeed is true.

So Christianity also resorts to different levels of fascism depending on the country and place and people.It is not always liberating.

Now once when I lamented about my bad karma before him,Praveen rubbished the theory of karma itself.Now perhaps as they got rid of the theory of fatalism of karma,most of the SCs and STs that I have come across as being in the higher echelons of academics are of Christian faith in India.It only goes to substantiate the claim made by ohmyrus of the old forum that more than 70% of the Christians in India are Dalits.In addition to them having got rid of the victimising theory of karma,them getting enough nutrition in the Church in the form of wheat and milk might have helped them achieve higher academically than Hindu Dalits.

Also there was one more Dalit Christian boy named Kalyan Babu both of whose parents were employed and who was my immediate senior during my school days and in whose company I came home which was in the same locality after my brother completed his 10th ,who was also quite successful as a software engineer and who brought a flat for his parents in Dilsukhnagar in Hyd as a gift.He was pitch black in his skin complexion.

However once everyone converts to Christianity,in a conservative Christian society might be they will be told to obey God's providence of one being rich and some other being poor in this life.Then Christianity will cease to become liberating.

Last edited by Nosuperstition on Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must

The muslim demographics are increasing rapidly in all countries in the West. Does this concern the governments in the West? I am pretty sure that they will understand the long term significance of this but they do not appear to be doing anything about it. However, Theresa May continues to claim that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of muslims are peaceful and law abiding but never says what the politics and long term aims are of these peaceful and law abiding muslims. Does she not realise the aims of both the terrorists and the peaceful muslims are the same and only differ in the way to achieve these aims? The violent terrorists are in a hurry but expose Islam for what it is and raise concerns among the population whereas the "peaceful" muslims ae in some ways more dangerous as they just procreate at a high rate and appear friendly which lowers the guard of the non-muslim population.

Ali Sina once said that only the open discussion, degrading and final destruction of Islam will prevent the catastrophe facing civilisation. The Government must take the lead and quote the Koran and/or Muhammad to explain any atrocity that muslims perform. At present, the public is deliberately being kept in the dark regarding the politics of Islam.

Islam is the most successful mass mind programming ever. As well as the programming, Ai Sina once said that an Islamic upbringing takes away empathy. He observed what can be explained biologically.

I only wanted to prove that even Christianity depending on place and time resorts to cherry picking or being selective.And that can hardly always result in liberation.

Llinguistically Dravidian states of India watered by non-perennial rivers and with far greater chances of famine are taxed 2 to 3 times more than other states.Yet B.J.P leaders maintain that they treat all states equally.Elections with E.V.Ms=>ample scope for tampering,so ballot papers are a must