Ben Wallace upset

It's my opinion and I'm still not apologizing for it. You seem to care that I did it (labeled opinions as driven by hate). So what. I'm still going to feel that way in the morning and I'm not going to sit here and pretend that I need to answer to you or anyone else for my opinion. Some people hated Ben Wallace. I never said everyone does, or the entire forum hates Ben, or every person I debate the issue with hates Ben, but over the last 3 or 4 seasons, I have read enough posts to know that there are people on this forum that hated (or still hate) Ben Wallace.

So, is what you're telling is that I can't say it? Is it that there can be people who hate Ben Wallace, but I'm not allowed to say people post things because they hate Ben Wallace?

I hated Flip. I had no problem saying it, I just didn't try to mask it in some fallacy of objective criticism that was based solely on his performance. So, I don't know what your goal is...is it to suggest that I'm a bad fan, or a bad poster, or a bad person, or unwilling to see someone else's point?

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What I'm saying, is this-

If you want people to get behind your rationale, don't make stuff up.

Once you start freestyling with the facts, I, personally, am going to get the gut feeling that your perceptions are just as emotionally driven as those you wish to denounce.

If that's how you want to roll....let loose man.

It's not going to keep people from pointing to the trolley as it breaches the tunnel leading to the land of make-believe, though. Regardless of how many times you pop into a thread to tell them not to notice it.

"I can also appreciate with a measurable amount of humor how much hate there is for a guy who actually succeeded here. But, yet there is hardly the level of disproportionate hatred for people who fail miserably here."

This comment was made as a response to one of my postings about Ben and the issues I brought up regarding him. Sounds like you're saying I hate him to me.

I've already pointed out two things you have purported as fact in this thread alone that aren't factual.

One being Bens contract had Joe matched Chicago (wouldn't have been up until next year, meaning Joe would be on the hook for 15 million this year) and two being your contention that anyone (anyone) has accused you of claiming Ben would be averaging 20 rebounds per game as a Piston.

Unfortunately, when folks point out that Joe may have been wise to let this man walk, you have historically gotten riled up in defense of some grand perceived "hatred".

I don't care if "some" of it is hate, or "most" of it is hate. You are stepping in to label it hate when it isn't proven to be the truth. IMO, That only serves to feed the hate, legitimate or no.

And thats what I stated.

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1. That's not right either because Joe wasn't offering Ben the max so even if I was a year off...Ben's deal would have been significantly less that 15 MIL AND for sake of argument we would still have a ton of cash with Iverson coming off the books, so we still would have been no worse off.

2. I just quoted a post (albeit a sarcastic response) which in its sarcasm belies the very sentiment that somehow I was suggesting that Ben's number would still be great RIGHT NOW. So, ignoring that and saying I didn't show anything (or anyone) is just silly.

3. It's nice how I'm not able suggest that anyone hates Ben Wallace, yet any response from me regarding the concept that Joe made a wise move is instantly me getting 'riled up'.

4. I label it as I feel like labeling it. If people are going to suggest that I have 'blind love' for a guy, then why shouldn't I be able to say the opposite? There are much worse things that have been said on this forum than some people hate Ben Wallace.

"I can also appreciate with a measurable amount of humor how much hate there is for a guy who actually succeeded here. But, yet there is hardly the level of disproportionate hatred for people who fail miserably here."

This comment was made as a response to one of my postings about Ben and the issues I brought up regarding him. Sounds like you're saying I hate him to me.

"I can also appreciate with a measurable amount of humor how much hate there is for a guy who actually succeeded here. But, yet there is hardly the level of disproportionate hatred for people who fail miserably here."

This comment was made as a response to one of my postings about Ben and the issues I brought up regarding him. Sounds like you're saying I hate him to me.

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I already said once that I wasn't speaking directly about you. Nevermind the fact that I didn't mention any names at all. That was a very generic and non-specific response. What more do you want?

I simply replied to your post because it was in the string of conversation and some of your points gave me ideas. I'll be sure not to quote people in the future.

You're missing the point. The statement was based on someone WHO SUCCEEDED.

I never made the assessment that people were saying he failed. Second, this forum does have posters who hate Ben Wallace; just like it has posters who hate LB, or Flip, or Curry.

It's just a fact.

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By continuing to stress the fact that he succeeded you are implying that someone is saying he failed. I think it has always been a foregone conclusion that he succeeded. We were all there to witness it. I don't get the point you are trying to make. By simply repeating HE SUCCEEDED doesn't help. I'm sure there are people that hate Ben.....you name a person and there are people to be found that hate him. So what's the point? Are you implying that people aren't allowed to hate someone because they SUCCEEDED?

4. I label it as I feel like labeling it. If people are going to suggest that I have 'blind love' for a guy, then why shouldn't I be able to say the opposite? There are much worse things that have been said on this forum than some people hate Ben Wallace.

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I'm not denying that there are Ben Wallace haters, but that doesnt mean everyone that points to his decline is a hater.

I'm not following that logic brutha. Am I'm (obviously) not the only one that caught that vibe from you.

LeBron isnt Malone and Gary. LeBron is a 6 year vet that will not even be 25 years old until December. Same as Dwight Howard.

Bad analogy. Horrible, in fact.

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What more do you want? Outside of the Celtics, what team in the modern era had big name FA's fall in their lap and give them a bunch of "all-stars" and then won it all?

This crap isn't a daily occurrence because teams don't get to load up with the best guys at all positions. The CBA is structured that way, not because players don't wanna play on the best teams or only wan the money.

Once you start freestyling with the facts, I, personally, am going to get the gut feeling that your perceptions are just as emotionally driven as those you wish to denounce.

If that's how you want to roll....let loose man.

It's not going to keep people from pointing to the trolley as it breaches the tunnel leading to the land of make-believe, though. Regardless of how many times you pop into a thread to tell them not to notice it.

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No one's freestyling with the facts. The Pistons won a title with Ben Wallace here and he was a major part of that success. Fact.