The Israeli government, its brutal war crimes in Gaza exposed in detail in the U.N. report by Justice Richard Goldstone, has implemented a series of draconian measures to silence and discredit dissidents, leading intellectuals and human rights organizations inside and outside Israel that are accused—often falsely—of assisting Goldstone’s U.N. investigators. The government of Benjamin Netanyahu is attempting to shut down Israel’s premier human rights organizations, including B’Tselem, the New Israel Fund (NIF) and the Association for Civil Rights in Israel. It is busy expelling or excluding peace activists and foreign nationals from the Palestinian territories. The campaign, if left unchecked, will be as catastrophic for Palestinians as it will be for Israel.

The Goldstone report, which is over 500 pages, investigated Israel’s 22-day air and ground assault on Gaza that took place from Dec. 27, 2008, to Jan. 18, 2009. The United Nations and the European Parliament have endorsed the report. The report found that Israel used disproportionate military force against Hamas militants in the Gaza Strip while failing to take adequate precautions to protect the civilian population against the military assault. The Israeli attack killed 1,434 people, including 960 civilians, according to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights. More than 6,000 homes were destroyed or damaged, leaving behind some $3 billion in destruction in one of the poorest areas on Earth. No Israelis were killed by Hamas rockets fired into Israel during the assault. The report did not limit itself to the 22-day attack; rather, it went on to indict the occupation itself. It examines the beginning of the occupation and condemns Israel for the border closures, the blockade and for the wall or security barrier in the West Bank. It has two references to the right of return, investigates Israeli torture and criticizes the willful destruction of the Palestinian economy.

“The impact of the Goldstone report is tremendous,” the Middle East scholar Norman Finkelstein said when I reached him in New York. “It marks and catalyzes the breakup of the Diaspora Jewish support for Israel because Goldstone is the classical Diaspora Jew. He is a lawyer and upholder of human rights and a liberal. He has distinguished himself in the field of law and he is also a lover of Zion. He calls himself a Zionist. His mother was an activist in the Zionist movement. His daughter did aliyah. He sits on the board of governors of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He has an honorary degree from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He has said over and over again that he is a Zionist. He believes Jews have a right to a state in Palestine. His is a mostly emblematic profile of the classically liberal Jew.”

“Liberal has a distinct connotation,” Finkelstein went on. “It means to believe in the rule of law. It means to believe in international institutions. It means to believe in human rights. Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch are liberal organizations. What the Goldstone phenomenon registers and catalyzes is the fact that it is impossible to reconcile liberal convictions with Israel’s conduct; too much is now known about the history of the conflict and the human rights record and the so-called peace process. It is impossible to be both liberal and defend Israeli policy. That was the conflict that confronted Goldstone. I very much doubt he wanted to condemn Israel.”

“Israeli liberalism always had a function in Israeli society,” said Finkelstein, whose new book, “This Time We Went Too Far,” examines the Israeli attack a year ago on Gaza. “When I talk about liberals I mean people like A.B. Yehoshua, David Grossman and Amos Oz. Their function was to issue these anguished criticisms of Israel which not only extenuated Israeli crimes but exalted Israeli crimes. ‘Isn’t it beautiful, the Israeli soul, how it is anguished over what it has done.’ It is the classic case of having your cake and eating it. Not only were any crimes being committed extenuated, but they were beautiful. And now something strange happened. Along comes a Jewish liberal and he says, ‘Spare me your tears. I am only interested in the law.’ ”

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“Goldstone did not perform the role of the Jewish liberal,” Finkelstein said, “which is to be anguished, but no consequences. And all of a sudden Israeli liberal Jews are discovering, hey, there are consequences for committing war crimes. You don’t just get to walk into the sunset and look beautiful. They can’t believe it. They are genuinely shocked. ‘Aren’t our tears consequences enough?’ Aren’t our long eyes and broken hearts consequences enough?’ ‘No,” he said, ‘you have to go to the criminal court.’ ”

The campaign against Israeli dissidents has taken the form of venomous denunciations of activists and jurists, including Justice Goldstone. It includes a bill before the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, which will make it possible to imprison the leaders of Israeli human rights groups if they fail to comply with crippling new registration conditions. Human rights activists from outside Israel who work in the Palestinian territories are being rounded up and deported. The government is refusing to issue work visas to employees of 150 NGOs operating in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, including Oxfam, Save the Children and Médecins Sans Frontières (Doctors Without Borders). The new tourist visas effectively bar these employees from Palestinian territory under Israeli occupation. Professor Naomi Chazan, the Israeli head of the NIF, which has donors in the United States, is being publicly vilified by ultranationalist groups such as Im Tirzu. Foreign donors to the NIF, as well as other human rights groups, are being pressured by Israeli officials to halt contributions. Billboards have sprouted up around Tel Aviv and Jerusalem with a grotesque caricature of Chazan, who has been branded by groups such as Im Tirzu as an agent for Hamas and Iran, with a horn growing from her forehead. “Naomi-Goldstone-Chazan” the caption on the billboard reads. Im Tirzu, the front organization behind many of the attacks, includes among its financial backers the John Hagee Ministries and the New York Central Fund, which also support extremist settler organizations.

The seventh anniversary of the American evil war in Iraq came and went, and no decent individual writer on TD even bothered to write or comment on this atrocity, while the ignorant contingent continue to heap lengthy pieces of garbage on these TD threads.

The American evil architects of the Iraqi war played very well the Sunni-Shi’a card, which was non-existent before the war, to divide and conquer and to destroy a country which was secular, with great potential for prosperity and progress.

Now that they have established this evil scheme, in the false name of elections and democracy, as a permanent reality in Iraq, the American political and military establishments have established a permanent political landscape in Iraq that will continue the political wranglings based on ethnicity and religious sects. This will guarantee that Iraq will never rise again as a united political and economic power in the area. Thus the destruction of Iraq has been permanently achieved for a long time to come. And the winners in this are the evil political-military establishments in both the US and Israel and the evil and ignorant contingent who continue to identify with this axis of evil: the US political-military establishment and the Israeli one.

I haven’t lost total faith yet in the natural law of just retribution; but I am praying that it will manifest itself sooner rather than later, so that I will go to my grave in peace!

Your four options for the case for Israel (whatever that could possibly
mean, as it is clear as mud) are your four options. That is how you
rationalize your hatred, Shingo. And since you are the center of your
universe, everything spirals around you. It is also self-evident that
political leaders have different degrees of responsibility and liability for
their public. Just to say that is not of any consequence. It is your habit
to make cavalier statements without any examples. Because many
people gloss over most in their thinking and conceitedly express their
unsupported opinions, similarly your lack of concern for details fits
right into the lazy of mind that is so self-aggrandized as to think just
saying a thing makes it so. It is classic self-deception.

Well Shingo, everybody who is even half-conscious knows there is a
blockage on Gaza imposed by Israel. A Wikipedia reference is not
necessary as it is general knowledge. Did you notice that Egypt is
involved as well? A detail you slickly avoid. So let this ignorant person
(Shepotamus) talk a bit about the 6-Day War in 1967. Israel
persistently and unchangingly voiced a desire to negotiate with the
Muslim countries that surrounds it. I thank you for providing the
opportunity to give a bit of history. Golda Meir dared Arab leaders to
meet with the PM Ben-Gurion to “negotiate” a peace settlement. And
like your constant retort, Egyptian Nasser replied that Israel was trying
to deceive world opinion and said once again that Egypt would never
recognize the Jewish State. So no progress there. The Arabs (Egyptians
do not consider themselves Arabs, just as the Iranians consider
themselves Persians) as a Contingent, refused to negotiate a settlement
for refugees earlier in 1964. You really should read some literature on
the Arab attitude towards Israel, Shingo. I am finding all of this history
very enlightening. And I thank you for providing the moment when I
may expand my knowledge.

Anyway, earlier in 1963, when the formation of the Palestine Liberation
Organization (PLO) materialized, the destruction of Israel was set in
stone and the PLO’s hostile rhetoric started appearing in their terrorist
attacks. In 1965 alone, they conducted 35 raids against Israel. And
increased to 41 in 1966. Then in 1967, in the first four months, 37
attacks were targeted against Israeli civilians. Palestinian guerillas
(terrorists) infiltrated Israel form Jordan, Gaza, and Lebanon. The
command and logistics were directed from Cairo and Damascus.
Nasser’s first objective was to provoke Israel, however his second
intent was to subvert King Hussein’s government in Jordan. Do please
provide an argument here, Shingo. Reference: A History of Israel:
From the Rise of Zionism to Our Time. A review of all the literature
written about the 6-Day War shows that not one Muslim wrote a book
about it. I find that amazing that no Muslim was so moved by the
event that they could find the words to express their view.

I will continue the history of the 6-Day War after breakfast! And maybe
after a little gardening.

Just a little parting thought (only for the morning, don’t worry, I’ll Be
Back, hahaha): Some people are more than one-dimensional in their
thinking. But you are not one of them Shingo. And your cohorts
demonstrate even less, a half of one dimension is a half-dimension.
You never speak of any joy the Palestinians have. Do you portray them
as having no culture at all? Do they not dance, or sing, find anything
beautiful in life. Are they such soulless people? I cannot believe it. Or
maybe showing that they have a rich culture, that they have the arts in
their society, that they are not as destitute a people as the picture you
and others would like to portray? I will go and find what you cannot. I
will find the culture of the Palestinian people! And I will present it here
for all to see!

I dare you to visit the following websites that illustrates the culture of
the Palestinian people.

Oh, surprise, the words Palestinian and Israeli in the same sentence
that does not include animosity! Read the section on Oppressed
Spaces. It might bring a tear to the unhardened eye.

But this one would most definitely:
Turbulent times, prophetic dreams: art from Israeli and Palestinian
childrenhttp://books.google.com/books?
id=M1_79wLWC2sC&dq=Today’s+art+of+the+Palestinians&printsec=fr
ontcover&source=in&hl=en&ei=UVGvS5-
cLsT38Aaa9r2hCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=11&ved;=
0CDQQ6AEwCg#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Since Robert is only skilled enough to keep copy/pasting from another
thread, and such…I’ll repeat what I replied to his other thread tirade
that he repeats here. LOL

Robert, your brow is below ground. It is sad that the only joy or fun
you can muster is to berate me, and ITW. Good grief, man. Get a life
or at least start one before it is too late and your entire life would have
been a waste.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

My point(s) were made and well documented! And look who is trying to talk about berating and name calling! Shenon…Shenon…try to practice what you are attempting to preach…that is if you are capable…LOL!
********************************

Hey, Robert! I think I said something stupid in 1966. Wanna dig that up for me while you are at it? Of course I was 11 at the time, but that won’t make any difference to you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That ITW got plastered with his own smearing attempts shit & he fell right into his own trap!

This is Saturday night and Robert gets uppity because Sponge Bob Square pants won’t be on until Monday during kiddy hour.

Robert, my pet rock has been sitting in front of the computer since the conception of Hedges Article, by some quirk of osmosis the rock has learned an annoying habit of cut and pasting. So Robert, I named my pet rock after you and returned him to his padded cabinet.

Robert I only become touchy when someone steals my Tequila!

~~~~~~~~~

weefeller…that Tequila osmosis has found its empty spot >>> via the path of least resistance…it may have some side benefits… a good dewormer for you!!!

Nice demonstration of buck passing Leefeller. In fact it also happens to coincide quite elegantly with option 4 of How to make the case for Israel and win
• We rock
• They suck
• You suck
• Everything sucks

Political leaders are obviously driven by self interests, but that does not automatically mean that responsibility and liability is equal among all those involved. The common theme in your comments has been that nothing is going to change, so why bother?

If you were a Zionist, it would certainly be a convenient position to take. That way you can pretend that you would love to see the issues resolved, but given the likelihood of a resolution, we should give up and turn our attention elsewhere.

This is Saturday night and Robert gets uppity because Sponge Bob Square pants won’t be on until Monday during kiddy hour.

Robert, my pet rock has been sitting in front of the computer since the conception of Hedges Article, by some quirk of osmosis the rock has learned an annoying habit of cut and pasting. So Robert, I named my pet rock after you and returned him to his padded cabinet.

Robert I only become touchy when someone steals my Tequila!

Radison,

Opinion not fact via osmosis:

The mess in the middle east seems like all the messes in the world. It seems the so called leaders of people, decide on what is best for themselves and take it, usually if not always the people suffer, people doomed to live on trickle downed chaff.

Hell, the Catholic church right now, seems to be a prime candidate for most likely to promote excuses but excuses are no stranger to politics either. Seems politics as relgion, has one boss, opportunity!

If so called leaders of different countries really cared for their people, many things would be very different! Of course their are some exceptions to this.

My ignorance of the Palestine/Israel plight is sponsored by the constant smoke offered from both sides. Now that I have been deemed an honorary Zionist, it seems my objectively must surely be tainted.

Thanks for trying to bring the thread back on track, maybe I will learn something besides human nature.

Oh Shen,\
You’re so ignorant it’s hard to know where to begin with you. Not only are you clueless about the history fo the Israel/Lebanon conflict, but you’re not even aware that Israel has imposed a blockade on Gaza for the last 3 years.
Debating you is like asking someone whos illiterate to read Shakespeare.
“ I didn’t see any back up for your charges against
Israel here, Shingo. Is it possible for you to provide it?”http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–2010_blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Now the last time that Israel was on the receiving end of a blockade, in 1967, Israel declared it an act of war and attacked Egypt.
“Notice Shingo does not dispute this.” But prefers to fall into a
contipated continuation of attempting to discredit me. He is really
grabbing at used straws, having used them all once already.”
I don’t bother to dispute that the earth is round earlier Shen, because some things are self evidence.t
“But I say Islamists because I don’t believe it is the Palestinians at the bottom of all the turmoil. I believe they would want peace if given the opportunity. It is the militant Islamists who are fomenting all the misery in the Gaza area.”
False on all counts. Only Palestinians live in Gaza. Hamas are Palestinians.
Israel imposed the blockade on Gaza as soon as Hamas won the elections. So in effect, you are endorsing the collective punishment of all Palestinians in Gaza for voting the wrong way.
“And I believe if given half a chance, the Palestinians would support peace without the
thuggery of Hamas. The militant Islamist politicians of the Palestinian
people have done them a terrible disservice.”
You’re lying again Shen. Hamas stuck to a ceasefire for 4 months until Israel broke it. In fact, the pro Israeli French government has stated that it is Israel that has rejected peace.
French FM: It seems Israel no longer wants peacehttp://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1127198.html
In fact, most Europeans consider Israel a greater threat to peace than Iran.http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/02/israel.eu

It is simply amazing Shingo how you show your neurotic delirium at
every post you make -

Shingo says - Of course not. That’s Israel working to maintain the
peace process right Shen??And the fact that Israel maintain an illegal
and genocidal blockade of Gaza (an act of war) is not pitiable either is
it Shen?

Shenonymous says - I didn’t see any back up for your charges against
Israel here, Shingo. Is it possible for you to provide it?

?Shingo quoting Shenonymous here - “ It has been and still is my
opinion that peace is not possible between Israel and Islamists.”
Notice Shingo does not dispute this. But prefers to fall into a
contipated continuation of attempting to discredit me. He is really
grabbing at used straws, having used them all once already.

Shingo says - “Why do you not call them Palestinains Shen? Are you
such an ISlampphobic bigot that like GRYM, you can’t bring yourself to
consdeirt them as human?”

Shenonymous says - Of course they are human. Only you are calling
them not! But I say Islamists because I don’t believe it is the
Palestinians at the bottom of all the turmoil. I believe they would want
peace if given the opportunity. It is the militant Islamists who are
fomenting all the misery in the Gaza area. I am only Islamophobic
against militant Islamists. I’ve often said the Muslim people are decent
and good people. Again I could go back and retrieve every time I said
that. If you wish I will be glad to get the quotes. And I believe if given
half a chance, the Palestinians would support peace without the
thuggery of Hamas. The militant Islamist politicians of the Palestinian
people have done them a terrible disservice.

Bobby Boy! You ventured out of the dark corner again! Good grief -
Here you said “My point(s) were made and well documented! And
look who is trying to talk about berating and name calling! Shenon…
Shenon…try to practice what you are attempting to preach…that is if
you are capable…LOL!”

Berating, Robert, I admit, since you deserve it. A little reciprocity is
justifiable. And saying your head is below ground is not that much of
a berating, is it? But of course to be berated by a woman must gall you
up the wazoo. Oh well… But do tell what name I called you? Are you trying to be pathetic now?

Since Robert is only skilled enough to keep copy/pasting from another
thread, and such…I’ll repeat what I replied to his other thread tirade
that he repeats here. LOL

Robert, your brow is below ground. It is sad that the only joy or fun
you can muster is to berate me, and ITW. Good grief, man. Get a life
or at least start one before it is too late and your entire life would have
been a waste.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

My point(s) were made and well documented! And look who is trying to talk about berating and name calling! Shenon…Shenon…try to practice what you are attempting to preach…that is if you are capable…LOL!
********************************

Hey, Robert! I think I said something stupid in 1966. Wanna dig that up for me while you are at it? Of course I was 11 at the time, but that won’t make any difference to you.

Is this really a discussion or a continual defamation of character? ;wait a minute it’s supposed to be a debate !.A debate is that like a discussion?, or has something gone awry here, where common sense is no longer applicable due to a macedoine soup mixture .Now lets examine the ingredients :a touch of hubris ,a healthy pinch of arrogance ,a sprinkle of Nationalist pepper ,an addition of bitterness to salt the dish ,a continual heap of defamation of characters ,a teaspoon of ‘cut and paste ’ a tablespoon of argument and a heap of vegetative legumes .Now where were we ,oh yes ;it’s about that historic city called Jerusalem ,located in the Levant .A city that has been in the headlines internationally for the past week ,something that I had mentioned in my previous posts on this thread ,but somehow didn’t click ,for whatever reason ,the exception being Shen .This Arab meeting in Libya will achieve what ,besides the half billion dollars that the league has pledged for ‘infrastructure ‘projects in East Jerusalem in order to usurp Israeli expansion .Will the US scale back on support for Israel ? not likely ,has Bibi played his AIPAC card ;that’s obvious ,is there daylight between the US and Israel ,that’s going to depend on the strength of your eyes .The pertinent question is going to be ‘how far East does East Jerusalem extend’ in the fellowship of US and Israeli relations.

Shenonymous,
“\I was not referring to the terrible event that deplorably and grievously killed four
Palestinians of recent weeks”
It was nit an event Shen, try as you might to pretend it was some kind of accident. IDF troops killed 4 unarmed Palestinians. It was muder.
“I was referring to the lamentable 1400+ that the entire world regrets, and regretted since the Gaza War.”
Lamentable? I wonder if you would have considered it merely “lamentable” had it been 1,400 Israeli Jews (mainly women and children at that) who were massacred?
You mean these four? Two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians killed
in an Israeli raid on Gaza”
No, I was referring to these four, who were killed last week
“4 Palestinians killed amid escalating violence”http://www.hindustantimes.com/4-Palestinians-killed-amid-escalating-violence/H1-Article1-521690.aspx
Which took palce after Israel had already killed 35 Palestinians in January, including a mother and 4 children (the IDF loves using Palestinian children for target practice)http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1052299.html
“Two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians killed in clashes”
Why did you leave out the part about the clashes taking place in Gaza Shaen? Was that a little inconvenient to your propaganda campaign? What are the IDF doing in clashes in Gaza?
“It is pitiable that under the auspice of possible peace negotiations that factions
within the Palestinian community attempt to wreck the process with
continued attacks against Israel.”
I suppose the bombing of Souther Israel had nothing to do with the rocket attacks right Shen? http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2010-03/12/c_13208380.htm
Of course not. That’s Israel working to maintain the peace process right Shen?
And the fact that Israel maintain an illegal and genocidal blockade of Gaza (an act of war) is not pitiable either is it Shen?
“ It has been and still is my opinion that peace is not possible between Israel and Islamists.”
Why do you not call them Palestinains Shen? Are you such an ISlampphobic bigot that like GRYM, you can’t bring yourself to consdeirt them as human?
“From Shingo’s favorite news source, Haaretz, you can access http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1157365.html”
What do you expect from the IAF?
Then again, what’s the point in asking a logical question from TD’s resident Paris Hilton?

Leefeller, are you saying Chris Hedges carries a Frenchman around in
his pocket at all times? OMG.

Of course, Shingo, with your taste for the blood of this woman, you
cannot fathom that I am not perfect and am heir to humanly mistakes.
I thank you for the ultimate deified compliment even if you didn’t
intend it that way. Too bad. But being an honest woman, I have to
burst your bubble: I am not a walking encyclopedia of everything, even
though you think I am. And I do not have antenna on my head where
every news item comes streaming in continuously 24/7, even though
you think I do. You are just a bloody-mouthed bore. Time to end this
bullshit supercilious ideologic freakshow of yours and get down to real
business, that is if you are capable of any rational dialogue where you
can restrain your pathological urges. You know, if not, just go cut and
paste yourself into a scrapbook where you really belong.

A one-state solution would mean, at least at this time, continued
Israeli control over a people (Palestinians) without rights. This would
not in any reality benefit Israel as everyone agreed that civil rights
belongs to everybody. It is the same as the Republican view of
Democrats in the US and the Islamist Brethren on this forum.

No no no no no, all are not accorded the civil right of free speech!
Only the elect (read that as elite) may speak as their dogma dictates.
Because the Jew believe they are ordained by their god to have this
land, friction will be eternal with those who are not Jewish.

For a binational state to be a possibility, it would take an agreement
with the Palestinians to give up their desire to destroy Israel. That is
not an unreasonable demand by Israel. Now is it? It seems a survival
clause.

On the other side of the page, Israel took measures to facilitate that
desire only to have enlarged the gulf contradictorily by ending
negotiations, by destroying the Palestinian Authority, by building that
fence causing a crazymaking travel route for the Palestinians to traverse
their own territories. This, it is said, only fuels the fire of emotion for
Hamas to win elections and actually gain control of Gaza.

Those steps taken by Israel, does not seem to have made it very
propitious for a betterment of the ‘situation.’ More crazymaking occurs
as Netanyahu did in 2009 more or less regressed into a two-state
solution while other high ranking Israelis commenced to blast it with
conditions that made the 2-state quite infeasible. Then Netanyahu
said at an address in 2009 that he was “ready to begin peace
negotiations immediately,” of course without preconditions. Demanding
Palestinian recognition of Israel and the Jewish people’s national home,
does not seem to be unreasonable, nor the demand that an agreement
to a demilitarized Palestinian state be implemented, that also does not
seem on the face of it, unreasonable as who would want an armed
contender as new citizens of their country? But continuation of
settlement construction should not have been an abiding condition. It is
insane to continue to build in the places put up for rethinking for those
who would ultimately reside there! It seems really crazymaking even if
Netanyahu made a Freudian slip and said “a Palestinian State” in
his address. “A survey conducted by the Institute for National Security
Studies revealed that 64 percent of the population supports the idea of
two states for two peoples, only 17 percent are prepared to expand
settlements at the expense of a confrontation with the United States,
and 77 percent support the idea of an evacuation-compensation law.” -
See haaretz at http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1093243.html.

The revelations made by Netanyahu this time around does give food for
serious thought. We could quip and say it is not apartheid, but rather
it is “no apartmentheid.” There is a nasty imbalance when no new
apartments for the Paletinians have been built for over four decades!
So the upshot of it all is really no change. At this time, a one-state
solution nor a two-state is in the deck. What object of the cardgame is
left? Only more conflict, and frustration will cause the Palestinians to
support still terrorist branded Hamas.

The Aviation Week article was a mindless op-ed written by an Israeli from Tel Aviv. The argument that Iran is supplying weapons to Hamas or Hebollah and is completely asinine, because it ignored that Israel is supplied far more and much more deadly and sophisticated weapons from the US and Europe.

And this is supposed to be a reason why Israel will further wars?

You’re simply buying to the Israeli narrative that Israel’s enemies are not supposed to have any weapons with which to defend themselves. Any attack by Israel on the grounds that Hamas or Hezbollah are being armed would be an illegal attack and act of aggression. This propagandist David Eshel, ignores the fact that since the 2006 ceasefire, UNIFUIL have recorded 2,500 breaches of the ceasefire agreement by Israel.
I suspect you didnt even comprehend what you were cutting and pasting. Word perfect or not, garbage in, garbage out.
“Far as anyone can tell, Hillary Clinton’s dismay at Israel is a bit mistaken”
No it’s not, because like the west Bank, East Jerusalem is occupied territory and Israeli claims that they have annexed it are rejected by the international community.
“And I heard his remarks repeated several times on the news media,
that Jerusalem is not a settlement, but is the capital of Israel”
Are you that ignorant? All you would have to do is look it up. The capital of Israel has always been Tel Aviv.
“Israel is chagrined at America’s current fickleness, but Israel and Netanyahu, knows it is a passing thing since America needs Israel to remain in the Middle East.”
Israel can remain in the Middle East and still abode by international law and withdraw from

“...Douglas Farah tells where and how Hezbollah gets some of its weapon.”
Is this another one of your points that is going nowhere? What were you trying to suggest?
BTW. It was not a YouTube clip. Your ignorance extends to the internet to I see.

Appreciated your commentary and opinion. Possibly I May be in agreement with what you have posted; just for what it is worth, but not sure? Since I have been deemed a Zionist, it is possible that I should not agree? Hopefully someone will reply with further comment of opinion in reply, instead of the usual insults.

“How pleasant it was all those years to think that Jerusalem was ours alone. We did what we wanted, we enacted the Jerusalem Law, we annexed areas that were not ours and believed that this was enough to whitewash reality.”

It seems I may be having one of those Patrick Henry moments, when you say we, who do you speak of, the Allies back in 1948, the USA Today or do you happen to be writing from Israel itself? Hedges uses the word we frequently, meaning a frog in his pocket?

Netanyahu did one thing right in the Jerusalem debacle (part 1)
03.21.2010 | Haaretz, Gideon Levy: As always, worth reading

In the sea of (justified) mudslinging at Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, there is also room for a good word. Intentionally or not, the prime minister has revealed the lies about Jerusalem and presented things truthfully. Intentionally or not, Netanyahu has put the capital’s occupied parts that the world does not recognize in their proper place: Ramot is the same as Psagot; Neveh Yaakov is the same as Kokhav Yaakov. There is no difference between Yitzhar and French Hill. They are all settlements, including Ramot, which was built in no-man’s-land. Intentional or not, you have to appreciate Netanyahu’s move.

A revelation has come forth in Jerusalem: Most of it is a settlement. After decades in which we lied ourselves to pieces and rendered kosher that which was not - only to ourselves, not to any other country - the truth has been revealed. It has been revealed after years in which no one thought to call the residents of these giant neighborhoods settlers. Years in which Teddy Kollek, a Labor Party man and a man of peace, of course, was considered a “builder” and not the greatest of settlers. He settled more Jews in occupied areas than any settler leader. Years in which doubting the settlement enterprise was tantamount to heresy and treason. So of all people, this right-winger, Netanyahu, proponent of the Greater Land of Israel, has lifted the veil.

The work of the righteous is sometimes done by others, as the saying goes. From now on we will have to conduct ourselves in the neighborhoods in the occupied areas just as we do in the settlements in the occupied areas. Any additional construction will come at a heavy political cost. House demolitions in the city have already been completely stopped; we can thank Netanyahu and Obama for that, too. Those who wanted it all may now lose it all, and that’s a good thing.

How pleasant it was all those years to think that Jerusalem was ours alone. We did what we wanted, we enacted the Jerusalem Law, we annexed areas that were not ours and believed that this was enough to whitewash reality.

Netanyahu did one thing right in the Jerusalem debacle (part 2)
03.21.2010 | Haaretz, Gideon Levy: As always, worth reading

Thanks to the Netanyahu, questions will arise: What exactly is the difference between this occupation, which we never admitted to, and the occupation we have admitted to? Why is it okay to issue blue ID cards to residents of the Shoafat refugee camp and allow them relative freedom of employment, and not to the residents of Deheisheh? Why does a Palestinian from Beit Hanina not endanger security when he drives on Israeli roads and even takes off from Ben-Gurion International Airport, while his friend from Abu Dis is a ticking bomb? After all, they are the same Palestinians - in Jerusalem as in nearby Bethlehem and distant Jenin.

Why, in the framework of negotiations “without preconditions,” are eastern and northern Jerusalem not up for discussion, when every provocative act of construction on the other side of the Green Line in the capital, which has hardly expanded westward at all, is intended to create unilateral “political facts” - in other words, preconditions? And we must not forget that this huge building project in Jerusalem is for Jews only; not one Palestinian neighborhood has been built in 43 years of occupation. Should that not be called apartheid?

Noticed today in the news, or should I say alleged news. A drunk man was arrested for trying to resuscitate a possum. After looking at the photo it seems, I noticed what looked like a backwards swastika tattooed on the drunk mans protruding forehead,...... Patrick Henry was that you?

Even if one was a first grade student in Shes class. Only after a few seconds of debate, it would be self evident which was educated and which was Patrick Henry!

Robert, don’t you know by now that Shepotamus is impervious to
anything you can say. It doesn’t matter what you say, with a hide like a
hippo it just bounces off and right back to you like a boomerang.
hahahaha Do what you are told can crawl back to your corner.

I have no church, Robert, so never never do I preach. You are most
welcome to agree with what I say….or ptweie ptweie spit at me for it,
which is what you always do. You might take up chewing tobacco as it
helps one make spit. Then you can invest in a spittoon to help your aim.
Although you never do anything but spit at me, your aim is pathetic.

“If you are trying to be funny and humourous, you are neither funny nor humourous.”

“I told you before, you lost your touch.”

Dear TD3,

Thank you for the heart felt advice, knowing that I have lost my touch is most troubling to me and I suspect on many occasions my cogitation has been in question. On occasion many posters have used utmost politeness not to mention it? This has been brought up before, it seems others here have little idea of what I am saying, obviously it must be my fault, I will work diligently to resolve this gross error on my part. It should be known I will never lower myself to resort to something as heinous as cut and pasting nor the dignity of name calling.

A little know fact is I type 95 words a minute with only two fingers. (though I have mentioned this fact on numinous occasions before, this time I could even mention typing in the snow, but I won’t, for that would be bragging!)

For me it is a arduous task to think about what I am typing while being busy concentrating on which key my index fingers may need to land on. With reluctance and the usual repetition, once again I will attempt to try (redundant) very hard to type slower, enabling the handicapped reader to comprehend and grasp what is being said with the prehensile ease of a monkeys tail.

It should be known that I have never attempted or even taken a stab at trying to be funny! Humourous is a word I have not tried, though on occasion and successfully may have used humorous!. Though my preference would be the word levity.

My opinion as fact, means it is the truth! First I ask, is it possible for a clown to be funny and never be humorous? For me this is so, my phobia of clowns may prejudice my fact for many years ago, I had an accident when running from a clown for I had heckled him by not so politely yelling that he was not funny! Lucky for me clowns cannot run very fast, I suspect from having big feet! So I bring you the following:

“One cannibal says to the other while dining on a clown, does this taste funny to you?”

Since Robert is only skilled enough to keep copy/pasting from another
thread, and such…I’ll repeat what I replied to his other thread tirade
that he repeats here. LOL

Robert, your brow is below ground. It is sad that the only joy or fun
you can muster is to berate me, and ITW. Good grief, man. Get a life
or at least start one before it is too late and your entire life would have
been a waste.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

My point(s) were made and well documented! And look who is trying to talk about berating and name calling! Shenon…Shenon…try to practice what you are attempting to preach…that is if you are capable…LOL!

omop - I have no argument. The Jews believe they are the “chosen”
ones. Funny because their religion is the one the other two
(Christianity first, Islam secondly) derives from. Where is Rodney King
when we need him? It is a hoot really. And something I think Leefeller
ought to include in his inimitable fashion in that story he keeps telling
us about, Exploits in Hoot Owl or maybe it is Adventures in Hoot Owl?
You know, I don’t really argue with any of the criticism you make about
the Jews or Israelis. My whole effort is to balance out the profusion of
craziness that comes from the other side as well. The equivalent
insanity from the Islamists. We’ve taken care, somewhat and maybe
not enough, of the Christian insanity, elsewhere. It might be time to
start up again with the blathering idiot Palin back on the road again
with her screechings and rifle pointed at Democrats. hahaha I mean
can anyone really stand that nails on the chalkboard voice? Mannnn
And the media who she scorched so resoundingly not too long ago are
lapping it up at her feet again just because they have an empty vacuum
cleaner of news and have to keep repeating repeating and repeating
(much like your Robert) the same floor dust in the place of real news.
Oh well. Do you think Vladimir Guerrero or A-Rod gives a shit about
what we are talking about? Naw. Dey jes be playin bazeball.

Hey maybe some smart entrepreneur could get a baseball game going
between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And everyone in the Middle
East could buy a ticket, the proceeds of which could go to the
Palestinians to rebuild their, their, their…uh hmmm I’m stuck. Oh
yeah…territories. The Israelis would have to play just for fun, not the
money. Because it could be used to buy them a country, and maybe
the Israelis could make out after all. You know whenever there is a
dollar involved the Jews would be right there. They are the ancient
money changers. right? Remember the Bible and Jesus in the money
changers’ temple? Mannn I think we are onto something! There would
be plenty of money as sports is a huge draw. Course, the Israeli team
would have to be safe from terrorist attack. And the Israeli commandos
would not be allowed to attend. But that could probably all be
arranged. What do you think? Aren’t they building a sports arena over
there in the Palestinian territories? Could be a good way to gooooo.

Since Robert is only skilled enough to keep copy/pasting from another
thread, and such…I’ll repeat what I replied to his other thread tirade
that he repeats here. LOL

Robert, your brow is below ground. It is sad that the only joy or fun
you can muster is to berate me, and ITW. Good grief, man. Get a life
or at least start one before it is too late and your entire life would have
been a waste.

And Amon, every once in a while you step out of the shitpile that your
comardes seems to always be standing in and you surprise me. I admit
it is difficult for me to know when you are playing and when you are
standing shoulder to shoulder with them. I admit that on another forum
I was able to transcend the stupid practice of your colleagues to name-
call and did enjoy the shepotamus appellation. It was rather cute. And
I could roll with it because the name-caller in that case, gee I forget
who it was, do you remember? was someone I think I was able to play
with. I’d give him a sloppy hippo kiss if I could. I guess I could send
an electronic one. hahahaha Much mirth issues from my keyboard.
Yeah, these days though I’ve been conditioned to return like a wart
whenever the zombies get going on their one-dimensional campaign to
impugn anything and everything I say. Which really only goes to show
how much power I really have to keep them occupied thusly. Amon,
there were times when I really liked you, and thought you had some
words of wisdom. I hope you return to that frame of mind.

The Jewish people have a plan for humanity; a grandiose plan that they
have pursued on all fronts for centuries: universal peace on earth. The
concept of “peace” is, indeed, at the heart of Judaism, and it is not just
chance that this word (shalom, in Hebrew), is frequently used by Jews
the world over.

In this perfect world that they would build, all conflicts will have
disappeared from the face of the earth, especially conflicts between
nations. This is why the Jews militate incessantly for the removal of
borders and the dissolution of national identities. Nations being the
causes of wars and disorder, it is thus necessary to weaken them and,
in the long term, to abolish them in favor of a world government that
can only make happiness and prosperity reign on earth.

Whether they are leftists or rightists, Marxists or liberals, believers or
atheists, Zionists or “perfectly assimilated,” the Jews are always the
most fervent supporters of the multicultural society, planetary
miscegenation, and global Empire. When all other identities disappear,
only the Jewish people will remain, recognized by all as the “chosen
people” of God.

Jewish Fanaticism, first off, is the thirty million deaths, Russians and
Ukrainians liquidated in the Communist adventure of 1917 to 1947.
One can never say enough about the appalling role of Jewish
ideologues, Jewish bureaucrats, and Jewish torturers in this story.

Jewish Fanaticism, it is this systematic eagerness to make Europeans
feel guilty, to make them hang their heads and fall to their knees for
crimes they did not commit, or for crimes for which Jews themselves
might feel a little guilty but prefer “to transfer” to others. One thinks
here of the leaders of the black slave trade, for example, or the
shameless exploitation of the wealth and raw materials of the Third
World.

Jewish Fanaticism, it is this unrestrained propaganda, conveyed through
all the media, in favor of immigration and the multicultural society.
Jewish intellectuals, Jewish politicians, and Jewish financiers bear most
of the responsibility for the immigration invasion that has disfigured
France in only 30 years. It is necessary to say it again and again:
immigration is not a natural phenomenon but the result of a tireless
campaign of cosmopolitan propaganda which is part of the politico-
religious plan of the Jewish people.

Jewish Fanaticism, it is also warmongering politics that ultimately
amounts to whipping up the hatred of the Western masses against any
nation that still refuses democratic domination and the hegemony of
Israel. Today they are preparing us for a war against Iran, as they once
stirred up wars against Iraq, Afghanistan, Serbia, and Germany.

Jewish Fanaticism, it is also this “great intolerance of frustration,” to
give it a medical diagnosis. Anyone who has the audacity to say one
word against the “Jewish lobby,” Israeli policy, or Jewish “over-
representation” in the media immediately finds himself dragged
through the mud by the whole media system, covered in spit,
calumniated, vilified, delivered to the feet and fists of a hysterical mob
hypnotized by the buzzwords of Big Brother.

In this new book of 400 pages, I base my case once again primarily on
the writings of Jewish intellectuals, ancient and modern. Thus my
conclusions are incontestable. If I speak about “Israeli hegemony,” it is
because explicit documents allow us to say that the Jews seek to
establish world domination. And if I write “the Jews” and not “certain
Jews,” it is because my sources are now sufficiently many and varied to
support such generality.

shenon: “LOL You have run out of names to call me guys, you and Robert and truedigger3 and Patrick Henry, and Sinbad, and Drool need to publish a new edition of the Islamist Apologist’s compendium of derogatory epithets for women.”

i have previously called out truedigger3 and sinbad on their penchant for namecalling. (as for Robert, i didn’t feel the need cuz, from his recent posts, inherit is NEVER gonna let us forget about Robert’s namecallling)

now, i suppose i’ve been included on your little list because i refer to u as shepotamus. i do recall the first time someone called u that name. at the time u were engaged in discusssion with the TDer who thinks the whole world turns around the JFK assassination. he got playful with your handle and said something like shenonymous…shepotamus. you realized he was just having fun with your name and took it as such. it was one of the few times i liked something about you…u could roll with a benign, playful punch. but, as is your wont, ‘shepotamus’ has now become a derogatory epithet when it suits your purposes. i’ve previously referred to your penchant for disingenuous game-playing and this is just another example.

“This inanity of insults is all Robert is capable of when he isn’t borrowing and posting someone else’s work. It is self-evident.

As I predicted he’s limited to calling me variations of “Zionist!”

Hey! Robert! You forgot to call me your OTHER brilliant insult—-“Lard Ass”. (But I guess you save that to use only against women).”

@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Why that ITW…if he only practiced what he is trying to preach, maybe…just maybe…he could make an intellectual point or two! BTW, I left out ITW’s slur attacks on other female TD posters…Virgia777, Thongirl, ElisaLouisa…

Its all below for all to see…ITW is a bigot!

By Inherit The Wind, November 1, 2008 at 5:12 pm #

“Shenonymous, November 1 at 11:19 am #

ITW says, “I guess I’m just too stoopid and ignorant to understand.” Yup, ITW, I guess you are. No I haven’t noticed you are “fairly well-grounded” in art. You can talk about the well-knowns all you want but you don’t say why they are great. Yes of course they are great, but not because of who it touches or not, whatever that might mean? How different is that from personal taste? You sound like you have an apple stuck in your throat. For crying out loud. And just because I say what I am educated in doesn’t mean you have to demean that! Who knows what standard popular opinion you are willing to go against unless you demonstrate that. And quite frankly Scarlett I don’t give a damn what you like or don’t like.
******************************************

You know what? You are determined to think that your education somehow makes you better able to determine what is and what is not “Great Art”...and that the rest of us have turn off our minds and accept YOUR opinion as valid.

But it’s no more than that—your opinion. You are just stuck in the mindset that because it’s yours, it’s somehow endowed with superior qualities.

So go ahead, dictate to the rest of us what we should and shouldn’t appreciate. Expect the rest of us to kow-tow to your taste.

Tell us watch “Terms of Endearment” but turn up our noses at “Casino Royale”.

Tell us we should prefer Hayden to Hip-Hop, Mozart to Madonna, Picasso to Peanuts, and Hemingway to Harry Potter.

It’s still just your opinion and you know what they say about opinions: They are like assholes. Everyone’s got one and they all stink like shit, yours included.

Low-Brow enough for you? I’m no longer “entertained” by you, Shenonymous. I’m now bored with your boring typical views that makes people call progressives “elitist”. Bore, boring, bored. So I’ll follow some other argument or thread that isn’t boring.”

In looking over all the new TD articles, they all seem boring time
wasters. Palin is a walking/talking abortion. So on with the Liberal
Israeli Show! Least everyone gets a mini history lesson. It’s the
weekend and I’m getting my second wind!

Shingo Shingo - I think you are the one who is losing it. I was not
referring to the terrible event that deplorably and grievously killed four
Palestinians of recent weeks, distinctly I was referring to the lamentable
1400+ that the entire world regrets, and regretted since the Gaza War.
I see you are still unable to read properly. I do wish you would take a
reading for comprehension class. Some ESL classes are easily signed
up for at any local community college.

You mean these four? Two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians killed
in an Israeli raid on Gaza
Cutting and Pasting…
Two Israeli soldiers and four Palestinians killed in clashes
Agence France-Presse
Mar. 26, 2010. 04:10 PM EST
Two Israeli soldiers have been killed in an explosion near the border
with the Gaza Strip. Hamas forces have claimed responsibility for the
blast, which happened east of the town of Khan Yunis. Four Palestinians
were also killed in clashes which broke out following the attack.

“An exchange of gunfire broke out and a grenade on one of the
soldiers exploded, killing him, while two other soldiers were wounded,”
Golan said. Another soldier was then killed in the gunbattle.
The general said two more Palestinians were later shot dead after being
detected planting explosive devices near the security fence along the
border.

Ezzedine al-Qassam Brigade, the military wing of the Palestinian
Islamist movement Hamas which rules Gaza, earlier claimed
responsibility for the incident in which the two Israeli soldiers were
killed.

The incursion was a result of rocket attacks previously. It is pitiable
that under the auspice of possible peace negotiations that factions
within the Palestinian community attempt to wreck the process with
continued attacks against Israel. It has been and still is my opinion
that peace is not possible between Israel and Islamists. Both sides are
entrenched in their credos. There are too many free radicals that
would upset any arbitration.

The cutting and pasting from Aviation Week was to give word perfect
quote. Don’t be so silly, Shingo. That is just so you wouldn’t be able
to twist what “I” say, the only strategy you have in your toolbox. If
your short term memory is defective, there are classes that also can
enhance that problem. You were the one that brought up Iran as
hypothetically sanctioning Israel. Let’s see, I heard ginko biloba helped
improve memory. There, see I am helping you!

And I heard his remarks repeated several times on the news media,
that Jerusalem is not a settlement, but is the capital of Israel. With that
as their definition, I hardly think there is to be any accord over building
in the city.

Israel is chagrined at America’s current fickleness, but Israel and
Netanyahu, knows it is a passing thing since America needs Israel to
remain in the Middle East. So we shall see what we shall see. Such are
the vicissitudes of life.

FYI: for whomever is interested…in my search, research on topics of
this forum (discussion has rarely occurred, only when forced, due to the
lack of understanding what “discussion” is by the Contingent), I ran
across this fascinating site that employs one muslim woman, of high
credentials who, well,... you look her up and see what she does…Her
name is Farhana Ali. There is even an email address just in case you
want to send her some hate mail. LOL You have run out of names to
call me guys, you and Robert and truedigger3, and PatrickHenry, and
Sinbad, and Drool need to publish a new edition of the Islamist
Apologist’s compendium of derogatory epithets for women. What fun,
you can now recycle them and apply them all to Ms. Ali.http://counterterrorismblog.org/
The following youtube interview by Jon Stewart (well known Jew Comedy
Store Station political show host) of Douglas Farah tells where and how
Hezbollah gets some of its weapon. Vahdy vahdy intahrresting. http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-13-
2007/douglas-farah?videoId=102765

Uh, Shingo, when were the days of White America? You are soooo
dippy. I be a dago/greek and they are not considered white. hahaha

Ooops…this has to be one of ITW’s original & intellectual posts! What to do…what to do…that ITW is an original! His worn out slurs tactics of “anti-semitic, Jew-hater, Israel hater, nazi…etc…” are not working out according to his plans. Many of the posters on this thread and other threads have seen ITW’s prolific slurs…they just don’t work on informed people. They are becoming obsolete!

Last year when ITW’s beloved Israeli army were shredding and murdering Palestinian women, children and innocent civilians in Gaza, ITW was throwing slurs at Folktruther and calling him a self-hating Jew…Folktruther was critical of Israel’s brutal army for its massive killing/murder and destruction in Gaza. Folktruther condemned the massacre of 1400 Palestinians. I hope that Folktruther is OK and well.

Shenonymous,
“..the State Department’s position on Hamas and Hezbollah has remained unchanged as Wood unequivocally declared “Hezbollah is a terrorist organization.”
Again, why cut and paste paragraphs to state the obvious? The fact that the State Department considers Hezbollah is a terrorist organization is irrelevant. The US labels anyone they don’t like to be terrorist, though they often do business with terrorist groups.
I know all about the history of Hamas. In fact, Hamas were originally supported by Israel to act as a cats paw against the PLO. Anther example of Israel’s policy of divide and conquer going pear shaped.
Your obsession with eugenics probably stems from an Aryan aspiration of yours. Shen. I bety you miss the days of white America.

Shenonymous,
You’re clearly losing in the struggle to maintain a cogent line of argument.
The 4 murdered Palestinians were killed not in the Gaza massacre (it wasn’t a war) but in the last few weeks.
You may not understand the definition of remorse, so for your benefit, it means “Moral anguish arising from repentance for past misdeeds”. The deeds weren’t mine.
Do I need to make is more simple for you to understand?
Shingo says - “I have no reason to regret the death the Thai worker,
because I played no part in it.”

“It is the United States that has sanctions against these two terrorist groups. It is irrelevant if Iran considers Israel terrorist. Iran poses no sanctions against Israel.”
So the fact that there are no sanctions imposed by Iran means that they are friends? What is your point?

“Of course the charters and manifestos of Hamas and Hezbollah are relevant. Is that just another of your Islamic Apologetics to try to mitigate the actions of these radical groups.”
If the Hamas charter was relevant before they chnaged it, then it is revelant after they changed it. You can’t have both ways Shen.
“From Aviation Week, March 4, 2010”
Here’s a word of advice Shen. Cutting a pasting paragraphs does not make an argument. I advised others to refrain from it, because no one bothers to read it.
The piece from Aviation Week is a superficial piece of propaganda and doesn’t support your argument in any way. You’‘re doing nothing but simply filling up space to give the impression you still have something to say.
You’re awfully superficial extremely lazy.

Shingo says - “I have no reason to regret the death the Thai worker,
because I played no part in it.”

Shenonymous says - One does not have to play a part in a despicable
act to be remorseful, Shingo. One can feel sadness. Remorse would
have been sufficient but you were unable to even say that much, until now. What a fool you are. I have repeatedly said from the
days of the Gaza War that I found the deaths of the Palestinians an
appalling and horrendous thing. Shall I retrieve all my posts that
shows that too? I shall be happy to.

Shingo says - “The fact that Hamas and Hezbollah are “classified” as
terrorist groups by the US is of course, entirely meaningless.”
Shenonymous says - You show your weak thinking skills, Shingo. It is
the United States that has sanctions against these two terrorist groups.
It is irrelevant if Iran considers Israel terrorist. Iran poses no sanctions
against Israel. So it is that consideration that would be entirely
meaningless. Once again your logic is whacked out.
Of course the charters and manifestos of Hamas and Hezbollah are
relevant. Is that just another of your Islamic Apologetics to try to
mitigate the actions of these radical groups.

One reason for this view is that Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah in
Lebanon continue to be supplied with ordnance from Iran. Thousands
of Hezbollah rockets are poised to strike Israel again, though for
almost four years the border between Lebanon and northern Israel has
been remarkably quiet. One reason may be that 11,000 soldiers from
the United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon and 15,000 Lebanese army
troops are more effective at keeping Hezbollah’s Shiite militia at bay.
The tranquility may be illusory—Tehran and Damascus could encourage
Hamas and Hezbollah to attack Israel in furtherance of their regional
aims. Iran has also threatened retaliation if Israel attacks its nuclear
program; and with popular unrest a constant threat to the leadership in
Tehran, a war with Israel, fought through Hamas or Hezbollah, could be
one way of diverting Iranian public attention away from the regime…

…While Hamas has virtually stopped firing Qassam rockets into Israel
since Operation Cast Lead, the situation along the border remains
explosive. The Israeli offensive severely damaged Hamas’s military,
security and administrative operations in Gaza. Civilian infrastructure is
virtually nonexistent, and much of the housing remains in rubble. The
Gaza Strip is almost entirely sealed by Israel, and lately by Egypt, which
is building the deeply dug “Mubarak Wall” along the Rafah border,
formerly the Philadelphi Route. The objective is to severely disrupt the
smuggling carried out in an extensive network of tunnels under the
border. The wall is formidable, composed of bomb-resistant steel that
is virtually impossible to dismantle or destroy, at least by smugglers.
Though it will not end tunneling, it is expected to stem most of the
smuggling, which has been a key source of arms and revenue for
Hamas.

In spite of the White House advisor on terrorism John Brennan’s
remarks to Robery Dreyfuss on August 10, 2009, that a new
counterterrorism strategy was afoot, the State Department’s position on
Hamas and Hezbollah has remained unchanged as Wood unequivocally
declared “Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. U.S. policy toward
Hezbollah has not changed. We do not make any distinction between
the political and military wings. And that is our policy. Until Hezbollah
decides that it’s going to change and stop carrying out the acts of
terrorism and other acts that are causing instability in the region,
there’s no reason for our policy to change.”

Hamas, on the other hand, started out as a very focused social
organization that was providing welfare to Palestinians, primarily in
Gaza. Over time, it developed an extremist and terrorist element to it
that, I think, has unfortunately delegitimized it in the eyes of many, not
just throughout the world, but also in the territories. And its continued
embrace of violence and terrorism is something that the Palestinian
people, I think, have to continue to tell Hamas leaders that this is not
going to bring them what they truly deserve, which is a Palestinian state
side-by-side with Israel.http://www.thenation.com/blogs/dreyfuss/460718/white_house_openin
g_to_hezbollah_hamas

One last thing before retiring for the evening: The irony of the current
scientific investigation of eugenics that would genetically remove the
aggressive gene from humans is that you while you claim it is Israel
that is violent and not the Palestinians, yet you ridiculously assumed
that my comments was intended as application to Palestinians. When it
would be the Israelis who would be made peaceful with genetic
engineering. I laughed a couple of days over that one. What halfwits
you all are. You are so anxious to condemn me for bringing up the way
science is working as we breathe to solve the violence of humans that
you could not even see your own burlesque of the twisted minds you
continuously show.

I obviously don’t feel inferior to any of you! You are all ciphers that
have a value of nothing.

Shenonymous,
Your inferiority complex is really getting the better of you and creating all sorts of problems. You cannot stay on topic to save your life, but it’s just as well. You were failing miserably when you tried to tackle the Israeli Labanon conflict, which was clearly way above your head.
Shen, I have no reason to regret the death the Thai worker, because I played no part in it. It is sad yes, but it wasn’t murder like the 4 Palestinians who were shot deliberately by IDF troops, which you are overjoyed about.
I know being ignorant is not painful for you Shen, because what you don’t know doesn’t hurt you. It is however, very painful to watch you self destruct with such regularity.

The fact that Hamas and Hezbollah are “classified” as terrorist groups by the US is of course, entirely meaningless. Would Iran’s classification of Israel as a terrorist state have any credibility? As we speak , the US is aiding and supporting groups that the State Department has classified as terrorist groups as they conduct bombings in Tehran. One is called the Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK) and the other Jundulla (Kaleid Sheik Mohammed’s old gang).

Israel’s founders were terrorists and 2 of it’s Prime Ministers were terrorist leaders. Israel’s foreign minister, Lieberman belonged to a terrorist gang, even regarded as terrorists in Israel. The US is the only country in the world found guilty of state terrorism for it’s attack on Nicaragua. Of course, as with Israel, the US rejected that finding and no one is going to punish the US for it.

“Dr Tahir ul-Qadri, from Pakistan, says his 600-page judgement, known
as a fatwa, completely dismantles al-Qaeda’s violent ideology. He said
that it set out a point-by-point theological rebuttal of every argument
used by al-Qaeda inspired recruiters.”
Maybe, but how does this refute the conclusions of Michael Scheuer? Once again Shen, you pretend to address one issue or topic by citing something completely off topic and expect us to believe there is a point to your argument. You’re like an octopus who squirts ink every time it’s cornered.

“Of course, it is silly to expect any Islamist journal or news media to use the word terrorist as that would be an admittance of their existence. Just who do they think they are kidding? Why all of the Muslim world, certainly no one else.”

Oh really? What news outlet refereed to the guy who flew his plane into an IRS building as a terrorist?

“I provide exact copy of the charters and manifestos of Hamas and Hezbollah copied from their websites and you call it asinine.”

Yes it is, because those statements are no longer revelant. If you insist that what Hamas said before they withdrew their calls to destroy Israel is evidence of their intent, then similarly, you have to accept their retraction as evidence as well.

I know it’s terribly inconvenient to your Islamophobic diatribes, but if you expect to be taken seriously, you have to be consistent

You’re clearly emotional and even more irrational than normal, so get some sleep and think it over.

With all due respect, may I speak my mind.
I am really very baffled and perplexed, that you are taking Shenonymous VERY SERIOUSLY, and that you are devoting so much time and energy, answering her lies and allegations , tic for tac, mainly concentrating on the recent mechanics of the Palestinian/Israeli problem and leaving out the broad philosophical and legal issues involved.
That woman has been discredited a while ago, and very recently had hanged herself with her own rope.
You are bestowing, inadvertently some legality and credence to her blatant lies and bullshitting.
********************************************

TD3’s only weapon: Try to discredit the arguer, not the argument. He tries this ALL the time.
Naturally, of course, that near-plagiarist, Robert, agrees with him. Robert, who clogs threads constantly with OTHER people’s work, because his own thoughts are limited to calling people “Zionist” and “Lard Ass”.

Talk about discredited posters! TD3 and Robert take the cake.
~~~~~~

Ooops...this has to be one of ITW’s original & intellectual posts! What to do…what to do…that ITW is an original! His worn out slurs tactics of “anti-semitic, Jew-hater, Israel hater, nazi…etc…” are not working out according to his plans. Many of the posters on this thread and other threads have seen ITW’s prolific slurs…they just don’t work on informed people. They are becoming obsolete!

Last year when ITW’s beloved Israeli army were shredding and murdering Palestinian women, children and innocent civilians in Gaza, ITW was throwing slurs at Folktruther and calling him a self-hating Jew…Folktruther was critical of Israel’s brutal army for its massive killing/murder and destruction in Gaza. Folktruther condemned the massacre of 1400 Palestinians. I hope that Folktruther is OK and well.

Is anyone here so full of himself that he thinks that whatever is said on
this forum or any blog for that matter affects the state department of
this country or the terrorist organizations? What a laugh riot. What
idiot criticizes me for saying that? truedigger3

Poor Shingo cannot bring himself to regret the death of that innocent
Thai, and of course I use that as an example of his sociopathic
remorselessness for anyone except his own tribe. I’ve asked him at
least a half a dozen times if he even had one second of remorse and all
he can do is to avoid an answer.

Shingo says -” Which goes to show your painful ignorance of the
subject of Israel and it’s conflicts.

You should steer away from topics you have such little knowledge
about.”

Shenonymous says - It is not painful for me, so sorry Shingo. This
forum is not reserved only for the ones who falsely think they know
something (the Contingent), for what they think they know is really
ideological excrement. It is open to everyone, but of course within
your entire ideological outpouring, freedom of speech is nonexistent.
My knowledge is sufficient for the purposes of this forum. I provide
sources for the information I give. It doesn’t matter if you don’t
like the references.

Shingo says - In quoting She-hag (one of the Contingent’s favorite
appellations for Shenonymous), “You provide no evidence of
debunking.” He does not actually debunk me, but instead attempts
to give evidence of an elimination of the call for the destruction of
Israel by the still classified terrorists Hamas and Hezbollah groups.
While addressing a different issue, you miss the point again of
debunking me. But that is all right because you can’t anyway.

But let’s take the example you used to debunk something: “Michael
Scheuer, who was head of the Bin Laden unit with the CIA for 8 years,
has concluded that only 2-3% of Muslims in the world are involved in
acts of terrorism.”

Thenhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8544531.stm
Dr Tahir ul-Qadri, from Pakistan, says his 600-page judgement, known
as a fatwa, completely dismantles al-Qaeda’s violent ideology. He said
that it set out a point-by-point theological rebuttal of every argument
used by al-Qaeda inspired recruiters.

And it is admitted that the word terrorist or terrorism will never be
used by Islamists, see interview of Inayat Bunglawala, http://www.apologeticsindex.org/i07af.html
Of course, it is silly to expect any Islamist journal or news media to use
the word terrorist as that would be an admittance of their existence.
Just who do they think they are kidding? Why all of the Muslim world,
certainly no one else.

Visiting Muslim Voices for Peace is a laugh riot as any link makes
absolutely no mention of Muslim voices for peace. MVP-US.ORG.

You are hilarious Shingo. You do provide me with many laughs. I
provide exact copy of the charters and manifestos of Hamas and
Hezbollah copied from their websites and you call it asinine. See how
funny you are? If these terrorist groups have parried their hatred now
into a lovefest of the west that is another laugh riot. No one in the
entire world would believe that and I have taken a poll of the entire
world.

Someone has got this all wrong. Shingo and his apostles are not
American apologists. Good grief, just read their fulminations. Who is
trying to hoodwink us? If anything they are Islamist apologists.

With all due respect, may I speak my mind.
I am really very baffled and perplexed, that you are taking Shenonymous VERY SERIOUSLY, and that you are devoting so much time and energy, answering her lies and allegations , tic for tac, mainly concentrating on the recent mechanics of the Palestinian/Israeli problem and leaving out the broad philosophical and legal issues involved.
That woman has been discredited a while ago, and very recently had hanged herself with her own rope.
You are bestowing, inadvertently some legality and credence to her blatant lies and bullshitting.
********************************************

TD3’s only weapon: Try to discredit the arguer, not the argument. He tries this ALL the time.
Naturally, of course, that near-plagiarist, Robert, agrees with him. Robert, who clogs threads constantly with OTHER people’s work, because his own thoughts are limited to calling people “Zionist” and “Lard Ass”.

STILL THINK THIS IS FUNNY? Not one of these taxes existed 100 years ago, and our nation was the most prosperous in the world. We had absolutely no national debt, had the largest middle class in the world, and Mom stayed home to raise the kids.
What in the hell happened? Can you spell ‘politicians?’
And I still have to ‘press 1’ for English!?

I hope this goes around THE USA at least 100 times!!! YOU can help it get there!!!
GO AHEAD - - - BE AN AMERICAN!!!

If the Army & Marines are in IRAQ , it’s because they want them in IRAQ

If they do not receive social security but are on an elite retirement plan not available to the people, it’s because they want it that way.

There are no insoluble government problems..

Do not let these 545 people shift the blame to bureaucrats, whom they hire and whose jobs they can abolish; to lobbyists, whose gifts and advice they can reject; to regulators, to whom they give the power to regulate and from whom they can take this power. Above all, do not let them con you into the belief that there exists disembodied mystical forces like “the economy,” “inflation,” or “politics” that prevent them from doing what they take an oath to do.

Those 545 people, and they alone, are responsible.

They, and they alone, have the power.

They, and they alone, should be held accountable by the people who are their bosses.

This is real food for thought instead of the repetitive, boring and out of context that has been going on for so long! Thanks to Charley Read, it just doweled on me that 345 individuals control the fate of 300,000,000 plus, and yet they continue to call this democracy! (AS)
===================================================
545 vs. 300,000,000
PLEASE READ AND THINK ABOUT THIS MESSAGE WRITTEN BY CHARLEY REESE, FORMER COLUMNIST AT THE ORLANDO SENTINEL.

Charley has been a journalist for 49 years.

545 PEOPLE
By Charlie Reese

Politicians are the only people in the world who create problems and then campaign against them.

Have you ever wondered, if both the Democrats and the Republicans are against deficits, WHY do we have deficits?

Have you ever wondered, if all the politicians are against inflation and high taxes, WHY do we have inflation and high taxes?

You and I don’t propose a federal budget. The president does.

You and I don’t have the Constitutional authority to vote on appropriations. The House of Representatives does.

You and I don’t write the tax code, Congress does.

You and I don’t set fiscal policy, Congress does.

You and I don’t control monetary policy, the Federal Reserve Bank does.

One hundred senators, 435 congressmen, one president, and nine Supreme Court justices equates to 545 human beings out of the 300 million are directly, legally, morally, and individually responsible for the domestic problems that plague this country.

I excluded the members of the Federal Reserve Board because that problem was created by the Congress. In 1913, Congress delegated its Constitutional duty to provide a sound currency to a federally chartered, but private, central bank.

I excluded all the special interests and lobbyists for a sound reason.. They have no legal authority. They have no ability to coerce a senator, a congressman, or a president to do one cotton-picking-thing. I don’t care if they offer a politician $1 million dollars in cash. The politician has the power to accept or reject it. No matter what the lobbyist promises, it is the legislator’s responsibility to determine how he votes.

Those 545 human beings spend much of their energy convincing you that what they did is not their fault. They cooperate in this common con regardless of party.
What separates a politician from a normal human being is an excessive amount of gall.. No normal human being would have the gall of a Speaker, who stood up and criticized the President for creating deficits.. The president can only propose a budget. He cannot force the Congress to accept it.

The Constitution, which is the supreme law of the land, gives sole responsibility to the House of Representatives for originating and approving appropriations and taxes. Who is the speaker of the House? Nancy Pelosi. She is the leader of the majority party. She and fellow House members, not the president, can approve any budget they want. If the president vetoes it, they can pass it over his veto if they agree to.

It seems inconceivable to me that a nation of 300 million cannot replace 545 people who stand convicted—by present facts—of incompetence and irresponsibility. I can’t think of a single domestic problem that is not traceable directly to those 545 people. When you fully grasp the plain truth that 545 people exercise the power of the federal government, then it must follow that what exists is what they want to exist.

If you are trying to be funny and humourous, you are neither funny nor humourous.
I told you before, you lost your touch.
Although humour is good and is welcome, kidding and joking, all the time, is a fool proof way for erecting barriers between individuals, and blunting any attempt for reaching out and understanding people and vice versa.
It is recommended that people be serious but not take matters very seriously and sprinkle that with humour.
Got it??!!

It is said, all people see things differently, comprehension is not stranger to this. Comprehension capabilites of Shinges and friends seem lacking to say the lest.

Shingles, thanks for reminding me of the Black Knight; if indeed you did? However, I do not believe Shingles is the only person in the world to have seen the movie? Probably just like I am not the only person in the world who has played Spank The Virgin, in Monty Pythons Holy Grail video game!

Anyway I used the word Chivalrous King and I doubt very much the word Chivalrous would be in the Shingles dictionary.

By the way, my use of Joe the unplumbed on several occasions before, seems appropriate to bring up here. It should be known as a fact, I used Joe the Plumber in my posting, way before Joe the Plumber was even a gleam in Shingles squirmy eyes! Well, Unless Joe the Plumber is Shingles offspring? So I guess this means, by golly; Shingles is a liar? On the other hand, if Shingles really happens to actually be Joe the Plumper, he should be allowed to use the name with out being called a liar.

Not only do I not remember Shingles dissertation on the Black Knight, I doubt very much if it was any where close to the quality of my own rendition. If I continue patting my self on the back this way, is it possible I could achieve the Shingles level of Pomposity, no….. some things are impossible.

Writing all this Shingles stuff has provided me with an great idea for a new song; ...... Shingle Bells!

By the way, Shingles, you aren’t an American Apologist? Though I have trouble keeping up, I do not recall saying you were,.... talk about keeping up?

I think that its time to “turn out the light…the party is over” on this delusional shenon. One can see what she is attempting to do on this thread. She is trying to manipulate the topic(s) and prolong this thread to show that she is in control…sort of. This so called teacher is NOT in the best state of mind. Her Bi-Polar/Delusional symptoms are scattered all over this thread & other TD threads…shenon thinks that she is the best at just about anything…! Why she’ll say I have the best strategy to deal with these men who are trying to make me look bad, give up & just quit! Shenon…your reputation is what you make it! You’ve got a nasty reputation on TD and maybe all around you, but its you who is responsible for it. No one else!

The Mid-East conflict is not your best no matter how much research you are attempting to accomplish. You are NOT neutral as you have claimed to be. If you were to put your so called research/information that you are posted on this thread on a “Israeli/Palestinian/Arab/Moslem vs Israel/zionism scale”, which side of the scale would be much more? You are NOT neutral! You are a deceptive liar and not yourbest!

With all due respect, may I speak my mind.
I am really very baffled and perplexed, that you are taking Shenonymous VERY SERIOUSLY, and that you are devoting so much time and energy, answering her lies and allegations , tic for tac, mainly concentrating on the recent mechanics of the Palestinian/Israeli problem and leaving out the broad philosophical and legal issues involved.
That woman has been discredited a while ago, and very recently had hanged herself with her own rope.
You are bestowing, inadvertently some legality and credence to her blatant lies and bullshitting.
It is obvious that she is a mouth-piece for some entity which is feeding her.
The amount of information, disinformation, misinformation, lies and allegations, some very detailed, she is spouting, is enermous and boggle the mind.
Doesn’t that woman has a life, a job, any interests other than that issue??!!.
And she claims that she has Italian Catholic background??!!
Many ardent zionists and Israel lovers in this site don’t know or are aware of most of that allegations and lies and details she is continuously dishing out.
I am really baffled and maybe I am missing an important point and not getting a clear view of the whole picture that is equal to your view..

Shenonymous is trying to backpaddle and weasel out of her despicable and ugly call for eugenics and castrating and sterilizing the “undesirables” including the palestinian people. She wrote:

“About the accusation of eugenics that you and your cohorts have ridiculously twisted to continue your assault of my person. You show your inability to read and then interpret your illiterate apprehension.
Furthermore, you show a lack of culture, especially in language and ability to read what is written accurately”
_________________________________________________

Shenonymous,

The ugly and despicable thing you wrote, is still there for everyone to see. Unfortunately for you, it was written in clear straight forward English, and you didn’t surrender to your inferiority complex and wrote it, in pedantic showy complex language, sometimes using Latin or French?!

Here what you wrote:

“And perhaps a little known ‘fact’ is that
Sweden, that haven of liberality, sterilized against their will 62,000 people, mainly women, with physical or mental handicap, or as it is
reported, those considered merely to be socially undesirable. Except nature, however, behaves eugenically ‘naturally’ through natural
selection and nature has no conscience whatsoever”

Then Shenonymous continues writing:
“There actually are four solutions to the Israeli/Palestinian problem:

Now this discussion is at best would be academic, only speculative since no matter what is said here will have no effect whatsoever as to what will be the solution. Powers far beyond anyone on this forum will make the decision, either soon or later. Except for one fifth solution, which could hardly be called a solution since it might be only outcome.”—————————————-

Shenonymous,
Your words speak for themselves, and you hanged yourself with your own rope, and you left your dangling swaying corpse for everyone to see.
Is it possible to resurrect the dead? I don’t think so. I don’t believe in miracles.
Maybe deep down, you are not that bad after all, and you are having unconscious regrets and guilt about your “Faustian bargain”, and that you had sold your “soul” to the “devil”, and that you are unconsciously wanting to get out of this “devilish” ugly bargain.
It is common knowledge in police work, that many times, suspects say or do things inadvertently , that will lead to their arrest and conviction, due to their unconscious guilt and remorse and the unconscious desire to get caught and punished.

It never appreciated how vacuous and ignorant you are. I thought you were simply deceitful and deliberately conflating this thread, but it turns out that all this time you have been simply covering the fact that you know nothing about this subject.

To sum you up, you having the political ideology of Sarah Palin with the intellectual prowess of Paris Hilton.

You didn’t have a clue who Judge Winograd was did you Shen? You got busy and Googled his name, came up with a Wikipedia entry and then simply cut and pasted what you found.

This is truly astounding because if you knew anythgin abotu Winograd’s most important conclusion, you’d know why I cited him. It was not because he concluded the 2006 war was a disaster and poorly managed, it was because he stated that “Israel embarked on a prolonged war that it initiated………Though it was a war of our own initiative and waged in a defined territory, Israel did not use its military power wisely or effectively”.

Are you getting the picture Shen? Winograd concluded Israel started the war, a war of Israel’s choosing.

Creveld’s criticism doesn’t contradict that fundamental conclusion. Furthermore, you’d realize that Creveld’s other conclusion that Hezbollah was “thrown out of South Lebanon,” is even more erroneous. Hezbollah actually gained credibility and political ascendancy as a result of the war. Not only did Hebollah’s credibility rise significantly after the war, but they took the initiative in rebuilding the region. They were so efficient in doing so that some American commentators lamented that Hezbollah’s reparations were putting American’s reparations of the Katrina damage to shame. Hezbollah has since become a significant constituent of the Lebanese government, so if anything Hezbollah ‘s star is shining brightly.

Creveld’s next statement is even more erroneous, and further highlights your profound ignorance of the subject. If you knew anything about the region, you would know that prior to 2000, there had been a 18 year Israeli occupation of Southern Lebanon, during which Israel killed 15,000 to 20,000 people, so to state that a level of calm ensued because of the 2006 war is farcical. There was the same degree of calm between 2000 and 2006.

If that weren’t bad enough, UNIFIL have reported that Israel has violated the 2006 ceasefire at least 2,500 times ( Hezbollah none).

This brazen rewriting of or history, of not erasing it entirely. Israel’s July 1982 invasion of Lebanon took an estimated 15,000 to 20,000 Palestinian and Lebanese lives. There continues to be a widespread fictional recollection that that invasion also was launched in response to rocket fire from Lebanon (from the PLO). The truth is that a cease fire had been in place for nearly a year, and had been scrupulously honoured by the PLO while the Israelis occasionally tried to provoke a causus belli to justify a long-planned invasion. When Israel’s ambassador to the UK was shot in London, and not by the PLO, Israeli PM Begin proclaimed that the cease fire had been violated and ordered a massive invasion led by Defense Minister Sharon. I distinctly recall that historical revision started right away. Later that same month of July, 1982, I heard from two separate people, one a friend and one a rabbi, that the rockets had finally stopped threatening Israel.

So to sum up, no rockets were fired, no mines laid, no ambushes set, no hostages taken or any terrorist acts launched until Israel invaded Lebanon.

As for the 2006 war, Olmert confesses to the Winograd Commission that the war had been planned 12 months prior. IDF officials have been giving Power Point presentations on their plans to attack a year earlier and what;s more, not Bush and Blair had been informed of Israel’s plans to attacks, long before the June 2006 incident.

The only incident was perpetrated by the Israelis which led to the murder of 2 Lebanese farmers.

“When said and done, Hezbollah had been repressed, albeit only for a time as Syria and Iran did no more to aid Hezbolla than to

replenish its weapon supply. “

More ignance from you. Heabollah most effective weapons was the Russian made Kornet anti tank rocket, which laid wast to Isrl’s tanks.

“Winograd took a very long time to issue the commission’s report.”

Stupid and asinine comment. Do facts cease to be facts unless they are presented within a given time frame?

“Hezbollah’s actions were damned for its decision to abduct two IDF

soldiers last July 12”

Blatant hypocrisy. Such acts are routinely perpetrated by Israel and done with such impunity, that they are not even considered to be acts of war.

” The fact the Lebanese state allowed the terrorist organization operate and at bottom is the cause of the

escalation of the military and political mayhem.”

Hezbollah are a major component of Lebanon’s government and military apparatus. The Lebanese military is not up to taking on Israel, but Hezbollah have shown they hare, having now twice defeated the IDF.

“About the accusation of eugenics that you and your cohorts have

ridiculously twisted to continue your assault of my person. “

This is yet another case of hit and run by you Shen. You brought up what subject of eugenics, in spite of it having no relevance to this thread, yet feign outrage that you are condemned for bringing such a vulgar subject to the debate. We don’t spend any time creating dark pictures of you Shen, you manage magnificently all on your own.

You are a vulgar and vile human being, and a very stupid one at that. You are now recognized as the Paris Hilton of of this forum. Congratulations.

Collaborators are traitors and traitors have always been executed or severely punished throughout history. In the US, Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, continues to serve a life sentence in spite of the fact that every Israeli PM since his arrest, has requested his release.

“Because I am not a Jew, because I am not a militant Zionista”

It’s true you’re not a militant, but you are a Zionist extremist.

“I’ve only heard in passing the various actions of the Judge Winograd but did not know the name of the head of the commission or that the report was named after him”

Which goes to show your painful ignorance of the subject of Israel and it’s conflicts.

You should steer away from topics you have such little knowledge about.

Shingo says - “You don’t like the argument that Hamas’ rocket fire
was supported by the Palestinians so you take it out on me.”?Do you like
fact that 93% of Israeli supported the Gaza massacre? Make that
94%, Shingo, do try to keep the figures straight. If you have a problem
with the truth, then simply copy/paste what was said.

“The goal of Hamas and its soul mates, Hezbollah and Iran, is the
destruction of the state of Israel ?and its Jewish citizens.”

“That’s already been debunked as a lie. You’re simply recycling it.”

Shenonymous says - It is the truth. You are the one recycling it,
incorrectly to spin this forum to “debunk” me. You provide no evidence
of debunking.

Shall I quote from that manifesto?
To review either the full document or main point, a google search is
recommended. I would give it but you need to do some of your own
foot work.

Goals of the HAMAS:

‘The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian
movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam.
It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of
Palestine.’(Article 6)

On the Destruction of Israel:

‘Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate
it, just as it obliterated others before it.’ (Preamble)

The Hezbollah Program against the United States reads:

Our Fight
The US has tried, through its local agents, to persuade the people that
those who crushed their arrogance in Lebanon and frustrated their
conspiracy against the oppressed (mustad’afin) were nothing but a
bunch of fanatic terrorists whose sole aim is to dynamite bars and
destroy slot machines. Such suggestions cannot and will not mislead
our umma, for the whole world knows that whoever wishes to oppose
the US, that arrogant superpower, cannot indulge in marginal acts
which may make it deviate from its major objective. We combat
abomination and we shall tear out its very roots, its primary roots,
which are the US. All attempts made to drive us into marginal actions
will fail, especially as our determination to fight the US is solid.

In another relevant part:
”…our struggle will end only when [Israel] is obliterated. We recognize
no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements….We
vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all
negotiators as enemies….”

For the entire text of the Hezbollah Program in pdf format google
Wikipedia, Hezbollah, reference 9.

On a slightly different topic. Do you feel anything for the innocent
Muslims who get blown up, albeit accidentally, or even more horrible,
on purpose by suicide bombers? Try March 11, 2010, Pakistan,
Islamabad - Five civilians were killed and 13 injured when a bumbling
suicide bomber tripped Thursday as he tried to attack a military convoy
in northwestern Pakistan, police said.

The suicide bomber was running toward the passing convoy when he
tripped over a bench and detonated before reaching his target, said
Asif Khan, a Peshawar police official. The attack occurred in
Baraqadeem, an area just outside of Peshawar, the capital of the North-
West Frontier Province. The bombing occurred around 5:50 p.m. (7:50
a.m. ET), Khan said.

Then try the massacre at Jamrud Khyber Agency that killed 70 innocent
Muslims.

Hamas to proceed with execution of ‘collaborators’
Posted by Iran-News.in under: Iran-News . March 25, 2010 that defers
to http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=171743 Jerusalem
Post for the story By Khaled Abu Toameh, Mar. 3, 2010
The Hamas government has decided to execute a number of
Palestinians who were found guilty of “collaboration” with Israel despite
protests by human rights and legal organizations, Hamas’s Minister of
Interior, Fathi Hammad, announced Wednesday.

Meanwhile, Hamas leader Mahmoud Zahar was quoted as strongly
criticizing those who have been firing rockets at Israel in the past few
days.

Zahar’s remarks were made during an interview with an Iranian TV
station.

Zahar hinted in the interview that those who were firing the rockets
were trying to drag Hamas and Israel into a new round of fighting. He
described the rocket-launchers as “suspicious” elements – a term often
used in the Palestinian territories denounce those accused of being
Israeli agents.

If you cited any fact it would have thunderstruck this entire forum. You
allude to fact and that is all you do.

Because I am not a Jew, because I am not a militant Zionista, I’ve only
heard in passing the various actions of the Judge Winograd but did not
know the name of the head of the commission or that the report was
named after him. I did some research. The report regards the 2006
Lebanon War, called the 2nd Lebanon War. Ynetnews, 1/30/08. The
article describes the final report from the special Winograd commission
to evaluate the demerits and also the merits of that war. After
providing a 41 point scathing description and recommendations, points
1 through 20 presents the extent of the “failures” of the Israeli
incursion. Also, at item 25 the criticism was the fact that no “serious”
staff worked on Israeli positions in the negotiations. Once the PM’s
head of staff took charge with a team it is recorded that ‘the situation’
improved efficiently, with dedication, professionalism, and coordination.
Along with the list of blames, they also cite important military
achievements, the heroism of the Israeli soldiers, the excellence of the
israeli air force and navy, as well as diplomatic achievements with the
SC resolution 1701. For a full presentation of the findings, visit http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3500810,00.html

Items 37 and 38 are of political philosophical importance, they are here
re-printed:

37. The 2nd Lebanon War has brought again to the foreground for
thought and discussion issues that some parts of Israeli society had
preferred to suppress: Israel cannot survive in this region, and cannot
live in it in peace or at least non-war, unless people in Israel itself and
in its surroundings believe that Israel has the political and military
leadership, military capabilities, and social robustness that will allow
her to deter those of its neighbors who wish to harm her, and to
prevent them - if necessary through the use of military force - from
achieving their goal.

38. These truths do not depend on one’s partisan or political views.
Israel must - politically and morally - seek peace with its neighbors
and make necessary compromises. At the same time, seeking peace or
managing the conflict must come from a position of social, political and
military strength, and through the ability and willingness to fight for
the state, its values and the security of its population even in the
absence of peace.

Item 3 puts the entire effort in perspective: the Government of Israel
opted for such an examination, and that the army conducted a large
number of inquires of a variety of military events, are a sign of
strength, and an indication that the political and military leaders of
Israel are willing to expose themselves to critical review and to painful
but required mending.

All this notwithstanding, Winograd did not go without criticism: Dutch-
Israeli military historian and author Martin van Creveld criticized some
of Winograd’s findings for failing to take into account the successes
brought about by Israel’s military campaign. He concluded that the war
was not a failure, and argued that Hezbollah “had the fight knocked
out of it,” lost hundreds of its members and that the organization was
“thrown out of South Lebanon,” replaced by “a fairy robust United
Nations peacekeeping force.” He also stressed that as a result of the
war, Israel is experiencing a level of calm on the Lebanon border not
seen in over four decades.http://www.forward.com/articles/12579/

Obviously this defense would have been anticipated and does not lay to
rest the 41 points of the report. It does however put into perspective
the reasons why the war commenced at all.

Not a minor fact to be ignored: Trouble started in 1968; from then on,
apart from one period in 1981-1982, hardly a week went by without
incident.

Rockets were fired, mines laid, ambushes set, hostages taken and many
kinds of terrorist acts launched. In response, Israel bombed and raided.
In 1982, not even a major Israeli invasion that led to the occupation of
Beirut and the eviction from Lebanon of the Palestine Liberation
Organization was able to restore calm.

It was only in May 2000, 32 years after the violence started, that things
calmed down somewhat. Still, a major incident involving sniping, rocket
fire, artillery fire or attempts to kidnap Israeli soldiers continued to take
place on average every three or four months. It was in response to just
one such incident that Olmert, with almost the entire Knesset as well as
public opinion behind him, launched the 2006 offensive with which his
name will always be associated.

The international community exercised no restraint on Israel as it had
done so often in the past. It gave Olmert almost all the leeway he
needed. When said and done, Hezbollah had been repressed, albeit
only for a time as Syria and Iran did no more to aid Hezbolla than to
replenish its weapon supply.

Winograd took a very long time to issue the commission’s report. Too
long after the main actors were gone and the Israeli military took action
to correct is ‘shortcomings.’ Well that is until the Gaza War. Final
conclusion: Israel bungled.

Hezbollah’s actions were damned for its decision to abduct two IDF
soldiers last July 12, which provoked Israel to go to war and due
repayment was exacted by Israel. The fact the Lebanese state allowed
the terrorist organization operate and at bottom is the cause of the
escalation of the military and political mayhem.

For 168,000 results more on the now illustrious judge, google Judge
Winograd.

About the accusation of eugenics that you and your cohorts have
ridiculously twisted to continue your assault of my person. You show
your inability to read and then interpret your illiterate apprehension.
Furthermore, you show a lack of culture, especially in language and
ability to read what is written accurately. You might take a remedial
reading class in order to read functionally. Having a job as a
photographer does not require comprehension in reading, Shingo. You
just point and shoot a camera. Almost a mindless physical operation. It
takes only an ability to push the snap-the-picture button. Sort of like
the coordination you would need to pick your nose or suck your thumb.

You and your cohorts have wasted an awful lot of time trying to create
a certain dark picture of me, but you fail at every step of the way. Your
attacks against me shows your depravity. The only thing you do is to
accuse, denigrate, and shout hostile epithets. What bravery is in any of
that? Zero.

If you insist on pitchign in with your sophomoric cat calling, don’t steal other people’s gags.

I used the Motny Python Dark KNight analoby on shen about 4 pages ago, so do try to keep up.

It’s pretty obvious that you’re as dishonest as Shen. Your support for teh 2 state solution is simply lip service, becasue you can profess to support such a settlement safe in the knowledge it’s not going to happen. In fact, I suspect that what propmted your accusation against me (that I was an American aplogist) is your position that America shoudl just indulge Israel and not expect anything in return.

After standing on the side lines watching Shingles against the ropes, his face looking like an art masterpiece created by Freddy Kruger, this brings me back to the Black Knight in “Monty Pythons the Quest For The Holy Grail”.

For those who do not know the story, I will give away the plot: After battling the Black Knight for some time and every time the King would cut off one of the Black Knights arms or legs, the most Chivalrous King would ask the Black Knight “Will you yield?” and The Black Knight would consistently reply; “It’s only a scratch and then the Black Knight would make some chicken clucking sounds and if I recall other insults”. Evidently the Black Knight ended up with all his arms and legs cut off, so one last time the King again asks the Black Knight to yield, and by this time the Black Knight only a torso with a helmeted head, again makes his chicken clucking sounds and says “it is only a scratch”, it can be said, the black Knight was well known for his consistency!

First a request; previously having read GRYM’s attempts and the following attempt by Shingles at sarcasm irony or humor (not sure which if any) ; “Oh my, who would have thought that Shen turns otu to be married to none other than Joe the plumber?”

When people take a definite step onto soft ground and it seems many posters do this, I offer them some free advice, (I do take checks) do not attempt Sarcasm, Irony or humor at home or any where else for that matter, it inevitably ends as if one is looking down an empty gas tank with a match.

In a book titled Ropes of Sand, a former CIA officer wrote. ” in early 1950s in
attempts to portray the Iraqis as anti-american and to terrorize Iraqi jews, the
zionists planted bombs in the USIS library in Baghdad and in synagogues. Soon
after leaflets urging Jews to flee to Israel started appearing in towns.

Thereby attesting to what Jay Lefkowitz, an American government official, told
the New York Times Magazine in 1995 “Deep down, I believe that a little anti-
Semitism is a good thing for the Jews — reminds them who they are.”

No wonder. Several European historians attest to the belief that the Nazis
party in Germany was basically the brain child of a zionist jew.

“Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu told the American Israel Public Affairs Council on Monday that “Jerusalem is not a settlement.” He continued that the historical connection between the Jewish people and the land of Israel cannot be denied. He added that neither could the historical connection between the Jewish people and Jerusalem. He insisted, “The Jewish people were building Jerusalem 3,000 years ago and the Jewish people are building Jerusalem today.” He said, “Jerusalem is not a settlement. It is our capital.” He told his applauding audience of 7500 that he was simply following the policies of all Israeli governments since the 1967 conquest of Jerusalem in the Six Day War.

Netanyahu mixed together Romantic-nationalist cliches with a series of historically false assertions. But even more important was everything he left out of the history, and his citation of his warped and inaccurate history instead of considering laws, rights or common human decency toward others not of his ethnic group.

So here are the reasons that Netanyahu is profoundly wrong, and East Jerusalem does not belong to him.

1. In international law, East Jerusalem is occupied territory, as are the parts of the West Bank that Israel unilaterally annexed to its district of Jerusalem. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907 forbid occupying powers to alter the lifeways of civilians who are occupied, and forbid the settling of people from the occupiers’ country in the occupied territory.Israel’s expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem, its usurpation of Palestinian property there, and its settling of Israelis on Palestinian land are all gross violations of international law. Israeli claims that they are not occupying Palestinians because the Palestinians have no state are cruel and tautological. Israeli claims that they are building on empty territory are laughable. My back yard is empty, but that does not give Netanyahu the right to put up an apartment complex on it.

2. Israeli governments have not in fact been united or consistent about what to do with East Jerusalem and the West Bank, contrary to what Netanyahu says. The Galili Plan for settlements in the West Bank was adopted only in 1973. Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin gave undertakings as part of the Oslo Peace Process to withdraw from Palestinian territory and grant Palestinians a state, promises for which he was assassinated by the Israeli far right (elements of which are now supporting Netanyahu’s government). As late as 2000, then Prime Minister Ehud Barak claims that he gave oral assurances that Palestinians could have almost all of the West Bank and could have some arrangement by which East Jerusalem could be its capital. Netanyahu tried to give the impression that far rightwing Likud policy on East Jerusalem and the West Bank has been shared by all previous Israeli governments, but this is simply not true.

3. Romantic nationalism imagines a “people” as eternal and as having an eternal connection with a specific piece of land. This way of thinking is fantastic and mythological. Peoples are formed and change and sometimes cease to be, though they might have descendants who abandoned that religion or ethnicity or language. Human beings have moved all around and are not directly tied to any territory in an exclusive way, since many groups have lived on most pieces of land. Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.”

Your faux outrage is a dead giveaway that your hypocrisy and double standards have been turned on you. You’ve only shown concern for the Thai worker that was killed by a misdirected rocket, while completely ignoring the murder of 4 Palestinians at the hands of IDF troops. Of course, the fact that I brought this obvious fact into the sunlight has exposed what a callous, inhumane and vile piece of work you are.

“To attribute to a person, to me, that I should take delight in anything as murder of anyone let alone those pitiful people that I have expressed unmitigatingly my sympathy.”

This coming from someone who in a previous post advocated eugenics, castration and populations control. And you call me a fanatic?

Yawn.

“It is minds like yours that perpetrates the evil that is conducted in this world.”

Like I said, this coming from someone who in a previous post advocated eugenics, castration and populations control.

“To be continued. Gainful employment for me calls.”

There will always be demand for cleaners and those who work for the minimum wage. I hear that Wallmart are hiring.

“The entire Contingent are freeloaders on the welfare provided by the very country they have nothing but contempt”

Oh my, who would have thought that Shen turns otu to be married to none other than Joe the plumber?

truedigger3 ought to be locked up in an insane asylum and I suspect
that at some point in his future this will happen, his lies will then go
with him to fester in his rather incapacitated brain. And Shingo
ironically is judged to be the same kind of miscreant who has little
mind and what is left is affected with his own bile. The truth hurts and
unfortunately the banner of the Palestinians suffers from these two, and
a few others the ugliness that issues from their minds. They
mistakenly think they defend when in fact they give the entire Middle
Eastern effort a stinking name. The stink resides entirely within them
and their useless attacks that can only be directed towards one woman.
whose resilience throws all their detritus in their faces. It is laughable.

Shingo says - “Absolutely, and 4 Palestinians lives would count 4
times as much, even for someone like you who who delights in seeing
Palestinians murdered.”

Shenonymous says - I thought you could not sink to a lower level of
vulgarity but it is obvious I was wrong. What an egotistical person you
are, Shingo. It is pure bravado, the stuff that fanatics are made of. To
attribute to a person, to me, that I should take delight in anything as
murder of anyone let alone those pitiful people that I have expressed
unmitigatingly my sympathy. It is minds like yours that perpetrates the
evil that is conducted in this world.

To be continued. Gainful employment for me calls. It is amazing what
the unemployed and scavengers of the American generosity are able to
concoct. The entire Contingent are freeloaders on the welfare provided
by the very country they have nothing but contempt.

“While Ayn Rand called for social Darwinism to “take care” of the “undesirables”, Shenomymous goes one step further by calling for their sterilization and castration, starting with the “undesirable” Palestinians.”

This remonds me of a sister in law who works as a psychiatrist at correctional facilities. She explained to me once how the psycopaths would have this particular trait, that once they were made to feel confortable, they would not only confess to their sick desires and crimes, but boast of them.

I think this explains Shen. Aware that she is discredited and exposed as a fraud, she’s decided there she has nothing to lose by bearing her sould and expressing her real desires and ideas.

Nobody has appointed you a public defender, you arrogant presumptious piece of putrid zionist turd.
Your veneer of of the so called niceties are not fooling me. You are a defender and apologist of Israel no matter how much atrocities it commits and how much brutalities it displays.
Your half harted lip service attacking the expansion of the settlments and Natanyaho is a classic piece of your continuous endeavor to bullshit and deceive and is not fooling anyone.
**********************************************

You dish it out with a ladle but you’re too chicken-shit to be able to take it! Nobody appointed YOU judge and jury either.

My position has been clear and definite for years. I probably hated and the Likud while you were still smokin’ in the Boys’ Room.

If you, just like, Folktruther, continue to claim to be a mind-reader who “knows” what I REALLY mean, despite it being the opposite of what I post, then I suggest you get help for that troublesome psychosis.

Shenonymous wrote:
“And perhaps a little known ‘fact’ is that
Sweden, that haven of liberality, sterilized against their will 62,000 people, mainly women, with physical or mental handicap, or as it is
reported, those considered merely to be socially undesirable. Except nature, however, behaves eugenically ‘naturally’ through natural
selection and nature has no conscience whatsoever”

Then Shenonymous continues writing:
“There actually are four solutions to the Israeli/Palestinian problem:

Now this discussion is at best would be academic, only speculative since no matter what is said here will have no effect whatsoever as to what will be the solution. Powers far beyond anyone on this forum will make the decision, either soon or later. Except for one fifth solution, which could hardly be called a solution since it might be only outcome.”
_____________________________________________________

Woo..ow. Out of the blue, like a lightening strike, Shenonymous bares her inner self for everyone to see how much ugliness, and hate reside in there.
While Ayn Rand called for social Darwinism to “take care” of the “undesirables”, Shenomymous goes one step further by calling for their sterilization and castration, starting with the “undesirable” Palestinians.
Although this ugliness and twisted mind speak for itself, it a subset of a bigger issue with Shenonymous, which is her deep seated hatred and aversion for each human being who has a happy fullfilling satisfying life.

ITW,

Would you care to comment on this piece of Shenonymous’s thinking that is “SO far above me intellectually”

Leefeller is too nice to say it flat out: You are a dumb, nasty chauvinist shit who resorts to character assassination because you are incapable of intellectual debate. You have that in common with Robert. You call She “Old Hag” and he calls her “Lard Ass”. Shingo AND Shenonymous are both SO far above you two intellectually it isn’t funny. Or maybe it is. Put you two geniuses together and you wouldn’t even have a half-wit. “
____________________________________________________

Nobody has appointed you a public defender, you arrogant presumptious piece of putrid zionist turd.
Your veneer of of the so called niceties are not fooling me. You are a defender and apologist of Israel no matter how much atrocities it commits and how much brutalities it displays.
Your half harted lip service attacking the expansion of the settlments and Natanyaho is a classic piece of your continuous endeavor to bullshit and deceive and is not fooling anyone.

In other words, you are ignorant of who Judge Winograd is? Just admit it.

“Shenonymous says - Would one Thai life count?”

Absolutely, and 4 Palestinians lives would count 4 times as much, even for someone like you who who delights in seeing Palestinians murdered.

“You don’t like the argument that Hamas’ rocket fire was supported by the Palestinians so you take it out on me.”
Do you like fact that 93% of Israeli supported the Gaza massacre?

“The goal of Hamas and its soul mates, Hezbollah and Iran, is the destruction of the state of Israel
and its Jewish citizens.”

That’s already been debunked as a lie. You’re simply recycling it.

“Israel is defending itself in the Gaza war, even though pictures of dead and wounded Gaza residents on television”
Debunked by the fact that the war was started by Israel and thus subsequent Israel actions do not qualify as any act of defense.

“Hamas has cynically helped create that impression by launching its rocket attacks from among civilians”
Also discredited. Israel used the same lie against

Hezbollah in 2006 and that too was debunked by HRW.
“So where do you get off censuring Me?”

I’m not censuring, I’m exposing your lies. Whether you choose to continue lying is entirely up to you.

“I’d say you were shrewd but you have no keen insight.”

While I would disagree (eg. I knew you were a liar from your first post), insight is not required, facts are all that matter.

“Shenonymous says - This does not respond to the the issue of US and Israel invading other countries.”

There’s no point denying the US and Israel have invaded other countries Shen. I’m sure even the people on the same planet you come from would accept that.

“You seem to think that all you have to do is state something and it is to be taken as obvious fact.”

No I cite facts, and because facts stand the test of time, ignoramuses like yourself resort to arguing that facts are irrelevant.

“Over and over you do this and simply make statements without offering anything to back them up.”

Bni I back everything up with sources and references Shen, which is why ignoramuses like yourself resort to arguing that facts are irrelevant.

“You merely, merely make another one of your statements without any substance. You have said nothing once again. “

So you want an example of how you’ve made a complete idiot of yourself on this thread? OK, easy.

You made the claim that all wars are about self defense, in which case I asked you if you consider Hitler’s invasion of Poland an act of self defense. You of course, had no answer for that one. You have an unfortunate habit of opening your mouth to change feet Shen.

Forcing the forum to a ‘higher’ level, in the future, the problem of Israel
and the Palestinians might be moot. With the advent of gene therapy,
it could be possible to breed out aggressive behavior and breed in a
peaceful coexistence between antagonistic groups. It is called
eugenics, or “biology’s dirty secret,” and a much reviled word in the
current culture when associated with science because of all the ugly
use it has been put most infamously by the Nazis, who sterilized over
80,000 Jeeewwwwz, even by the United States’s sterilization program,
genetic human engineering. And perhaps a little known ‘fact’ is that
Sweden, that haven of liberality, sterilized against their will 62,000
people, mainly women, with physical or mental handicap, or as it is
reported, those considered merely to be socially undesirable. Except
nature, however, behaves eugenically ‘naturally’ through natural
selection and nature has no conscience whatsoever.

It can be lamented that it is the struggle for survival between
individuals that dominates the natural world, which can be extrapolated
in a social context, to societies. But we also know, in our advance
intellect, some of us that is, that cooperation rather than competition
is the cornerstone of all human progress.

There actually are four solutions to the I/P problem:
For a circumspect discussion, I suggest that pros and cons be offered
to its promise and consequences.
1. The 2-state solution. pros cons?
2. The 1-state solution. pros cons?
3. Israelis leave the land and a Palestinian state created. pros cons?
4. Palestinians leave and Israel remain the state. pros cons?

Now this discussion is at best would be academic, only speculative
since no matter what is said here will have no effect whatsoever as to
what will be the solution. Powers far beyond anyone on this forum will
make the decision, either soon or later. Except for one fifth solution,
which could hardly be called a solution since it might be only outcome.
That things really remain the same as in Ouspensky’s Life of Ivan
Osokin who remains aware of past mistakes but is unable to change
because human choice may be rather mechanical.

What is so fascinating on a subject that is completely as speculative the
Israeli Palestinian Problem you would risk being thought of as crass, as
barbaric, as savage, as remorseless as you have demonstrated you are.
You may have status among yourselves, but you have none “in the real
world,” the “whole” world.

Shingo says - The number of rockets or other ordinance is simply not
important. It is the number of lives that are.

Shenonymous says - Would one Thai life count?

Shingo says - You’re attention span is obviously limited. If you
folowo the thread, you’ll notice that this was in response to a argument
that Palestinians supported Hamas during the Israeli attack on Gaza.

Shenonymous says - Usual lame personal attack. You cannot control
your demeaning remarks. You don’t like the argument that Hamas’
rocket fire was supported by the Palestinians so you take it out on me.
In checking the forum for substance for your comments regarding
Palestinian support for Hamas firing the Israeli attack on Gaza, there is
only one remark from prole, march 15, 6:37 pm that comes
barely close to what you just claimed, “The goal of Hamas and its
soul mates, Hezbollah and Iran, is the destruction of the state of Israel
and its Jewish citizens. Israel is defending itself in the Gaza war, even
though pictures of dead and wounded Gaza residents on television, on
the Internet and in the newspapers give the impression of Israeli
aggression. Hamas has cynically helped create that impression by
launching its rocket attacks from among civilians”, etc., etc. ” So
where do you get off censuring Me? You are a bombastic piece of
work, Shingo. So slick. So much the very liar you call me and anyone
who disagrees with you. Acumen? Are you mad? I’d say you were
shrewd but you have no keen insight. But be careful of being called
shrewd as that is way too close to the word shrew that your comrades
who have an intimate affair with malignancy of the mind love to call
Shenonymous. hahaha

Shingo says - In response to She’s comment: “Simplistic, Shingo, your
alleged argument is insufficient.” He says, “No it’s self evident.
Tzipi Livni stated that a long ceasefire with Hamas was not in Israel’s
strategic interests. An there’s no prizes for guessing what those
interests might be. Occupier occupy to satisfy a desire to control
territory. It’s very simple Shen. Even you should be able to grasp that
concept.”

Shenonymous says - This does not respond to the the issue of US and
Israel invading other countries. Another foul ball, deflecting your
dismissal of the criticism I levied against you. In checking all the
comments prior to this one, there was no submission of why the
countries you accuse of being invaded were invaded, not even naming
those counries. You make another cavalier statement based on air,
otherwise known as hubris, except in this case it is hot air. You seem
to think that all you have to do is state something and it is to be taken
as obvious fact. That is your delusion without end. Over and over you
do this and simply make statements without offering anything to back
them up. I am only too happy to recount them on this forum as I am
now doing.

Example: Shi says - “I don’t need to demean what you say Shen.
You manage quite well on your own.”

She says - Perhaps I do but you haven’t shown it. You merely, merely
make another one of your statements without any substance. You have
said nothing once again. But since you use a plethora of words your
cohorts think you said something. What a hoot.

Wrong again Shingo, there was no debate, so it can’t be over.
A new installment, as promised, of the Exposition coming soon!
Snore…

You’re damn right I’m insisting I’m not an ‘American Apologist’. I have defended no accusation labelled at America in this thread on any other. Calling anyone an apologist is very immature, especially when there are no ground for such an accusation. In fact, I am confident I am a stronger and fiercer critic of US policy than you.

What inspired you make such an allegation against me?
At this stage, I have no way of knowing what your position is on the Middle East. Claiming you want peace tells us very little. I’m sure you’re aware that even right wing hawks make that claim, while simultaneously advocating that peace can only be achieved through war and military confrontation.

Peace itself is a largely meaningless term without considering the terms of that peace. One could argue that Hitler would have wanted peace if it meant achieving his aims without violence.

Are you sincerely telling me that you are not an ‘American Apologist’ and that this discussion that where having has ‘struck’ a negative chord in your verbal repertoire.Accusing Posters of being Liars
is a very immature and a ‘last resort ploy ’ utilized oftentimes in politics .I have said before and I will reiterate ,that we have many things in common and ‘diplomacy ’ is far from being an easy task .I will ask you
Politely, where did our paths lead to this stalement and are we really of such opposing poles ,that reciprocal rhetoric is the only form of communication that we have adopted.My stance on the Middle Eastern
question has always been on peace and there are many veterans of this site that will concur .Now you may choose to ignore this overture and continue the stalement however intriguing it may be for the readership,
but in hindsight isn’t that the sad reality overall.

“Leefeller is too nice to say it flat out: You are a dumb, nasty chauvinist shit who resorts to character assassination because you are incapable of intellectual debate. You have that in common with Robert. You call She “Old Hag” and he calls her “Lard Ass”. Shingo AND Shenonymous are both SO far above you two intellectually it isn’t funny. Or maybe it is. Put you two geniuses together and you wouldn’t even have a half-wit.”

~~~~~~

Wooow that ITW…how did he accomplish such a post! He is a such a genius, clever and the best critical thinker…on TD! An original post from ITW!

He has his boots straddled on both sides of the fence on this thread & one can almost hear ITW subtle screams…Go Shenon, Go Shenon…you are a friend of Israel…you are a friend of Zionism!

One can see ITW’s boot tracks where they came from & where they are headed…> friends of Israel/Zionism side of the fence.

ITW called Folktruther, a TD poster, a self-hating Jew because Folktruther was critical of Israel’s brutal occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. He did not support Israel’s Apartheid/Zionism!

As it turns out, you’re as much of a liar as Shen and GRYM. Imagine my surprise!———————————

HAHAHA Shingo everytime you are cornered you always
resort to your LIAR argument ,my goodness and then you deploy your ‘coterie ’ tactic .Tell me Shingo
when did I exchange a ‘word ’ with GRYM on this thread ,and by the way you have resorted to the Liar
Liar tactic on numeroius threads ,hell Hollywood might beckon you to make a new movie.Do you need help with the script?

Leefeller is too nice to say it flat out: You are a dumb, nasty chauvinist shit who resorts to character assassination because you are incapable of intellectual debate. You have that in common with Robert. You call She “Old Hag” and he calls her “Lard Ass”. Shingo AND Shenonymous are both SO far above you two intellectually it isn’t funny. Or maybe it is. Put you two geniuses together and you wouldn’t even have a half-wit.

Every American Apologist I ve ecnourntered happens to be a Zionist, so I guess that would then make you an Israeli hater.

You’re welcome for the stats, though the only evidence that would reinforce your point is a any statement from me that defended American actions, and we both know you won’t be able to produce one.

Is this your attempt and trying to psyche me out Radson?——-

—————

George is no longer amongst us ,you do realize that ,although he is oftentimes quoted and referred to .Are you trying to tell me that you’re a born again Zionist ,something like Madeleine Albright?The hater part

I will not partake in ,it’s just too vulgar ,but you apparently have no qualms in stating such an offence,it’s rather stereotypical isn’t it.You play the game well Shingo and thanks for revealing your defenses.

“March 23, 2010 “Pravda”—It is a case of the dog biting the hand that feeds it. After years of protection by Big Brother USA, covering up for its having nuclear warheads when Iran cannot even have a nuclear program, looking the other way when shocking war crimes and massacres of civilians are committed, when pregnant Palestinian mothers are left to die in the streets,Israel sticks up the middle finger in a classic display of pig-headed arrogance by Netanyahu at AIPAC.

The territory of Israel and of the Palestinian Territories was drawn up upon the founding of the State of Israel under international law and recognised by the international community in May 1948. Annexation of the Palestinian Territories (now Illegally Occupied Territories) and the subsequent seizure of lands and destruction of homes from Palestinian civilians are a violation of international law and are prohibited by each and every fibre of customary and conventional law. Israel stands alone. Today, the Palestinian Authority controls just 17 per cent of its territory. Is this acceptable?

To cap it all with ever-increasing displays of pig-headed arrogance, East Jerusalem was annexed by Israel arbitrarily in 1980 and today Israel continues to build settlements there in contradiction of the UNSC Resolution 478, claiming that Israel respects and follows the Resolutions it feels like respecting and ignores the others, just as Israel sits on 200 nuclear warheads in the Negev Desert in total contradiction to all the norms of non-proliferation.

Israel behaves like Hitler

In short, as with Hitler’s Aryans, Israel declares to all that its people are special, being above the legal parameters governing everyone else and Israel follows the arrogant precept that as a State it does not have to behave as a responsible member of the international community because basically it does as it pleases, adopting policies such as lebensraum (living room), treatment of Palestinians as untermenschen (sub-humans), occupation of territory, arbitrary murder, destruction of property.

AIPAC: Patriots or Traitors?

Immediately after the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton declared that Israel had to stop building illegal settlements (far from stopping, they should be either handed over to the Palestinians whose lands were stolen together with a hefty reparations payment or else demolished), Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu responded with the most shocking display of pig-headed arrogance in his address to a cheering AIPAC, claiming that Israelis were building in Jerusalem 3,000 years ago and continue to do so now.

So to whom do the members of AIPAC owe their allegiance? To Tel Aviv or to Washington? They cheer the Prime Minister of Israel who comes to the United States of America to defy and spit in the face of its Secretary of State? These AIPAC members are patriots, or traitors?”

Truthdig3, first I would like to say I appreciate your comments, but you should be aware I have trouble telling some of the Truthdigs apart, for instance I have trouble telling Truthdig, Truthdig1, 2, 3 and 4 apart from each other. My confusion may stem from the fact they all look alike?

My alleged ability to be weasely and cowardly is not just used to hide behind “rhetorical and satirical” (having a problem with the wording) in a dead serious attempt of hitting to hurt”. May I suggest it is really an attempt to get people to think! I suppose for some thinking hurts, for instance Republicans seem to have this problem.

Is it just possible the power of accurate observation is called other things by those who haven’t got it?

Truthdig3, feel free to show me what you are talking about, for it may be possible I was not being weasely and cowardly and hiding behind anything at all? (by the way are weasels cowards or is it the other way around?)

May I take this time to thank those for enlightening me and bringing to my attention, something unknown to me before this last week, the fact that I am a Zionist! For it has been decreed! I find learning so much here is most exciting and I just love learning new things, for instance I have learned that being Jewish has nothing to do with Zionism, in fact for convenience sake it seems preferred. And silly me, I used to believe calling someone a Zionist was like tossing them the N word!

“One wonders, why a college professor, of Italian Catholic background, has such fervor and takes such stand, in defending the obvious injustices and atrocities of zionism and Israel against the obvious facts and decencies that beg an opposite stand.
Is it a career move to gain favors with her zionist colleagues or the zionist department head??
Is it because, being an old hag, isolated in her ivory tower, she craves attention and a “permissible” chance and outlet to vent her frustration and hatred, especially against men.”

~~~~~~~~~~

truedigger3,

Nice observation/insight. And as I pointed out earlier…shenon, was telling everyone from last year that she was saving all TD posts that she participated in for the purpose of a book scheme. Almost everyone knows that its almost impossible to publish books in the US that are critical of Israel/Zionism’s motives and policies in the Mid-East. She already stated that it might get her in trouble for making statements that are critical of Israel.

She is no college professor…she is most likely a high school substitute teacher. They probably pushed her out of any previous university/college position. Can you imagine her grading students in her class…Moslem students who elect to wear a burka/berka?

I remember that shenon was making fun of a TD poster, “sodium”, for posting his age. She started making fun of old men with no work…etc…

Don’t let that leefeller the “little chicken shitter” irritate you. He is shenon’s gopher and much more than what you see on TD. He has absolutely nothing to offer, but he tries to mention being in Vietnam ...and that is about all !

There is an international law ruling on the question of East Jerusalem. In July 2004, the highest judicial body in the world, the International Court of Justice, stated unequivocally that East Jerusalem is “occupied Palestinian territory.” It’s not a question here of conflicting claims to Jerusalem, let alone an Israeli exclusive right to the East Jerusalem. The law is clear: it’s occupied Palestinian territory because it was acquired in the course of the June 1967 war. And under international law, it’s inadmissible to acquire territory by war.

That’s the position of all human rights organizations, and the Goldstone report. The Goldstone report repeatedly refers to East Jerusalem as occupied Palestinian territory. Mr. Goldstone, by his own reckoning, is a Zionist, a lover of Israel. But he also respects the law, and the law is clear. The Goldstone report was mandated by the United Nations Human Rights Council. Richard Goldstone, the distinguished international jurist, led the mission. At the end, they published a substantial report that ran to some 550 pages. It covered a lot of ground and it concluded that Israel used a “disproportionate force to punish, humiliate and terrorize a civilian population”. It was a very careful, cautious and judicious report. Its conclusion was that both Israel and Hamas were guilty of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity, that Israel has an obligation to hold an independent investigation, and if they don’t, they have to go before the International Criminal Court.

Israel was outraged by the report. Shimon Peres, who’s said to be a dove called Goldstone a “small man” who knows nothing about international law. Michael Oren, the Israeli ambassador to the US, said it was worse than the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and worse than Ahmadinejad. The reaction was quite similar in the United States.

Goldstein replied “OK, you say the report is deeply flawed. Show me where.” There have been three major ones, one by this Israeli and American professor Moshe Halbertal, one by Professor Dershowitz of Harvard, and the Israelis put out just last week. The Obama administration has called the report deeply flawed, but not provided any substantive evidence to support that claim. These were very insubstantial responses.

After the invasion of Gaza Amnesty International put out a very substantial report called “Fueling Conflict.” It said that transferring weapons to a consistent violator of human rights is illegal under international law. Israel is a consistent violator of human rights. The report went into each country in the world, how it supplies and transfers weapons to Israel. But the focus was on the United States. AI said 3 main things: 1, the US is by far the biggest supplier of weapons to Israel; 2, supplying those weapons to Israel is not only illegal under international law, it’s illegal under domestic US law; and 3, what happened in Gaza (twenty-two days of death and destruction) could not have happened were it not for US taxpayer money. If you’re appalled by what happened in Gaza, you’re appalled by the death, the destruction, the systematic attack on mosques, the systematic attack on ambulances, the systematic attack on hospitals, on schools the 6,000 homes which were all either completely or nearly completely destroyed, Amnesty International says all of that was paid for with US taxpayer money.

Hillary Clinton is now extolling US military aid to Israel. The part that she left out is, 1, it’s all illegal under international and domestic US law, and 2, it was US aid that made possible the use of the white phosphorus. Every white phosphorus shell they found (you can see it in the Human Rights Watch report on the white phosphorus) was made in the United States. We are responsible for that war. It’s not just a cliché. It’s a factual matter. We made that massacre happen.

jeezus!! shepot is actually following thru with her threat. why? “It will be a long and arduous effort of six pages of comments guaranteed to take a few days to squeeze into my busy life but for my integrity on TD is worth it.” let’s see. two people get in an argument, but only one of the combatants is worried about the effect the argument has had on her integrity. why is this? could it be that one of the combatants has a pretty much clear conscience about what he has said, while the other feels some unease? but no..the combatant who has no worry about his integrity has a ‘linear’ engineering mind that has no ability to comprehend the lofty concept of ‘integrity’.

When you make a dumb and silly statement, and then someone calls you on it, supported by the facts and history, it is weasely and cowardly to hide behind “o it was just such rhetorical and satirical”.
No, many time you were hiding behind rhetorical and satirical” and you were dead serious and hitting to hurt.
In the beginning you were funny and your posts were respite and your humour was a breath of fresh air, but lately, your humour has degenerated and you are not funny anymore. As a matter of fact, I am starting to find you very irritating.

Again, Shenonymous, summerizes her points.
It is like she thinks that anyone is still interested, anymore, in her deliberate obfuscations of the facts, blatant bullshitting and twisting of logic, all that mixed with obvious ignorance about many of the facts about the Middle East and Israel.
Add to that mix, continuous ad hominems, vulgarities and obvious cruelty and delight in the suffering of the palistinian people or any Arab or Moslim.
And this poor intellectual and character showing ,come from one who claims that she is a college philosophy professor.??!!
One wonders, why a college professor, of Italian Catholic background, has such fervor and takes such stand, in defending the obvious injustices and atrocities of zionism and Israel against the obvious facts and decencies that beg an opposite stand.
Is it a career move to gain favors with her zionist colleagues or the zionist department head??
Is it because, being an old hag, isolated in her ivory tower, she craves attention and a “permissible” chance and outlet to vent her frustration and hatred, especially against men.
To any posturing wise ass, pleeehze, save your “moral outrage”, and the cry that this is derailing the discussin. I am not buying or biting.
The thread is approaching the 600 mark, and all the facts either have been discussed or ignored already.
It is time to put the liars and bullshitters especially Shenonymous and GRYM in their place and show them that their bullshit is useless and going no where.

And the huge elephant is in the dance floor, shitting and pissing and braying , and the few dancers are dancing and wondering, why the dance floor is so “crowded” and smelly, and what are these strange sounds that are mixing with the music.
The dancers were wondering about the smell of the urine and the stench of shit and which is more obnoxious.
Not a single dancer mentioned the elephant in the dance floor.
The worst enemy to the truth is self delusion and denial.

“Shingo’s first error: This is not my claim. It comes from a referenced report.”

And as I argued, the numbers are actually flawed and even then, when compare to the carnage inflicted by the West very modest.

Remember that Israel killed over 15,000 people during it’s occupation of Southern Lebanon.

“Subtracting 6% from 100% is 94%, so it isn’t a close account it is a matter of doing the math. The figures came from the report.”

The math isn’t the issue. The 6% figure is itself disputed by the DOD and the CIA who have reported 2-3%.

Shingo’s remark is shallow, of course, the only way the world could know what the 94% of Muslims who are not involved in terrorism did to prevent the 6% is if there was any report that they did.”

So your assumption is that all 94% were cheering these attacks.

“Repeating my comment: It is said that only 6% of the Islamist population (Muslims) are terrorists who conduct deadly attacks.”

You can repeat it all you like. The figure is actually 2-3%.

“This is a strawman argument and Shingo uses it to avoid answering the question about the 94%. I will answer his question once he answers mine. It is a matter of priority
and decorum.”

In other words, you haven’t an argument and are using
“decorum” to explain the hole in your thesis.

This is another example of your bigotry and your 2 dimensional idea of Muslims. In your mind, Muslims are a monolithic entity that act in unison. Most of the public are apathetic and inert. We know that by the fact that only half of the America public vote in elections, yet Muslims are not normal people are they Shen?

“How ridiculous to suggest that I take up anything with Judge Winograd, but I will if Shingo would please provide an address. By the way, Shingo, no resource, naming the Judge is not a sufficient reference.”

if you don’t know who Judge Winograd is, then this subjective is above your head.

“So what is your point? You have made none.”

You’re attention span is obviously limited. If you folowo the thread, you’ll notice that this was in response to a argument that Palestinians supported Hamas during the Israeli attack on Gaza.

“This is an incoherent statement, Shingo.”

No, you just lack the acumen to comprehend it. The guilty party will always insist that the evidence against them is exaggerated or misrepresented. The victim rarely has any need o resort to this argument.

“The elephants are irrelevant and the fact that the US and Israel may have invaded other countries”

Unless you’ve resided in a parallel universe since 2000, you would know that the US and Israel have indeed invaded other countries.

“Simplistic, Shingo, your alleged argument is insufficient.”
No it’s self evident. Tzipi Livni stated that a long ceasefire with Hamas was not in Israel’s strategic interests. An there’s no prizes for guessing what those interests might be. Occupier occupy to satisfy a desire to control territory. It’s very simple Shen. Even you should be able to grasp that concept.

“I don’t ramble but it makes you feel good to say I do. It is a sneaky way to try to demean what was said. To address what you said, you make no point.”

I don’t need to demean what you say Shen. You manage quite well on your own.

“ I will set the record straight for Shingo relentlessly accuses me of error and faulty thinking.”

In order to do that you would have to employ facts and logic, 2 instruments that you have expressed contempt for.

You’re a tragic figure Shen. The debate is over and the crowd have gone home, but like the emperor with no clothes, you can’t see it.