(03-14-2013, 09:15 PM)Norbert Wrote: Were you people HONESTLY expecting a pope who held your soteriology?

Burke was literally the only one who did anyway.

Well there were certainly others who did much more than Francis: Ranjith, Pell, some Italians etc.

The thing is, much of the concept of being a "traditional" Catholic (or at least one who is attached to the Latin mass) is that liturgy and the celebration of the Holy Mass matters. Even though we certainly did not agree with everything that Benedict did, we could trust that he shared this idea. He believed as most of us do that the liturgy is the "source and summit of all Christian life." He acted accordingly and sought to ensure that there was as much continuity with the traditions of the Church as possible.

Now we have Pope Francis, who although he appears a humble and sincere man, is a quintessentially aliturgical Jesuit. It has tatken him less than 26 hours to undo work that Benedict spent years implementing. Whatever his other qualities may be, it is understandable disconcerting that he appears to reject the importance of this issue completely. We had hoped for a pontiff who would further Benedict's work, but now it appears that Francis will act as if it never happened.

It is also understandable our concern that he appears to have plenty of time to meet with the Rabbis but not enough to provide proper pastoral care for those in his diocese who care for tradition.

Hopefully he will grow in to the role, but there is nothing currently out there that would suggest it.

(03-14-2013, 09:15 PM)Norbert Wrote: Were you people HONESTLY expecting a pope who held your soteriology?

Burke was literally the only one who did anyway.

Well there were certainly others who did much more than Francis: Ranjith, Pell, some Italians etc.

The thing is, much of the concept of being a "traditional" Catholic (or at least one who is attached to the Latin mass) is that liturgy and the celebration of the Holy Mass matters. Even though we certainly did not agree with everything that Benedict did, we could trust that he shared this idea. He believed as most of us do that the liturgy is the "source and summit of all Christian life." He acted accordingly and sought to ensure that there was as much continuity with the traditions of the Church as possible.

Now we have Pope Francis, who although he appears a humble and sincere man, is a quintessentially aliturgical Jesuit. It has tatken him less than 26 hours to undo work that Benedict spent years implementing. Whatever his other qualities may be, it is understandable disconcerting that he appears to reject the importance of this issue completely. We had hoped for a pontiff who would further Benedict's work, but now it appears that Francis will act as if it never happened.

It is also understandable our concern that he appears to have plenty of time to meet with the Rabbis but not enough to provide proper pastoral care for those in his diocese who care for tradition.

Hopefully he will grow in to the role, but there is nothing currently out there that would suggest it.

(03-14-2013, 09:13 PM)ggreg Wrote: Quick summary is that he does stadium masses, with happy clappy people, dancing puppet and other sillyness.

This one really bothers me. I thought "clown masses" (and the like) were something that Traditionalists hated with a passion, because of what they do to the Sacrifice of the Mass, the center of our Faith. Are we now just to accept them as something that has gone on for many years and can't be helped?

Search for "bergoglio Misa de Ninos" on youtube to find different videos of a mass (if you can stand it). Balloons in one video, Pinocchio and other characters in another, dancing and singing and guitar in all. Note that the Cardinal seems very reverent himself in these masses. But what a terrible setting. Is this seriously supposed to be a good thing for children?

OK, here is one:

For myself, I think Pope Francis is the Pope and that God can work miracles. Maybe the Pope will just leave what is past behind him, or slowly improve. But I'm worried.

But we are also talking about the Novus Ordo mass. God help us leave that behind.

Even if he did support some liturgically iffy things as Cardinal, it may not necessarily continue. Remember, Pope Vigilius was installed by the military prowess of Belisarius and the scheming of Theodora after the reconquest of Rome. It was Theodora's hope that Vigilius would embrace the Monophysite view of things and promulgate it as the view of the Church. Once he took the reigns as Pope, he turned on the Monophysite view held by Theodora, and upheld his predecessor's beliefs and those of the Church.