A Basic Long Gun Primer

With the advent of the Trump Administration, gun control measures of any kind face more difficulty in the Congress than at any time in recent memory. Advances in firearm rights, such as relaxation of the federal restriction on suppressors, are actually possible. However, anti-gun forces–and the media (I know: one in the same) never rest. In this article, an update of several past articles, I hope to help to expose and correct poor and misleading uses of language, particularly by those who manipulate language to steal freedom. I also hope to provide a few fun facts to know and tell, as well as informed answers to anyone who demands to know why anyone “needs” a given gun or firearm accessory.

MP5SD

ASSAULT WEAPON: Any scary-looking firearm a gun banner currently wants to ban. Anti-gunners coined the term in the 1980’s as a means of confusing the public and legislators into thinking that anything that remotely looks like a machine gun must be a machine gun–they actually stated their strategy in exactly those terms–which as all right thinking people know are inherently evil and horrifically destructive. The carbine heading this article is a Heckler & Koch MP5SD6. It’s a semiautomatic .22LR caliber carbine, made by Walther under license from H&K. The integral suppressor is non functional. The second carbine is a genuine H&K MP5SD submachine gun in 9mm. The integral suppressor is functional. Notice how much they look alike, yet they are very different weapons. It is this appearance similarity gun banners exploit.

Proposed and adopted legislation employing the term has been so broadly and nonsensically written as to ban virtually any firearm ever made. The news media has enthusiastically adopted it, sometimes extending the term in ridiculous ways, such as “assault handgun,” or “assault shotgun.” Firearms widely used for hunting, competition and home protection, such as the AR-15 family, are commonly mislabeled “assault weapons.” The incorrect, inflammatory term has also found its way into various pieces of anti-liberty legislation.

Tec-9

This is the Tec-9, which is also commonly labeled an assault weapon because to the untrained eye, it resembles a machine gun. In fact, it is a very large, unwieldy, unreliable and inaccurate pistol. Notice the lack of sights and the short barrel. The weapon is cheap—in every way—and will accept 30 round magazines, but because it has no shoulder stock and is poorly balanced, is difficult to shoot with any degree of accuracy.

There is, in fact, no such thing as an “assault weapon.” There is no such term in the firearm lexicon.

Fun Fact: Those using the term “assault weapon,” demonstrate their lack of understanding of accurate firearm terminology, their intent to deceive, or both.

StG44, the first assault riflecredit:www.geocities.ws

ASSAULT RIFLE: This class of firearm began in 1943 with the MP-43 designed in Germany. In 1943, all rifles of its type were reclassified as the STG-44. True assault rifles have these characteristics:

This is a Smith and Wesson version of the AR-15. It outwardly resembles military M-4 variants, but is capable only of semiautomatic fire, thus it is not an assault rifle. Externally, fully automatic AR-15 platform rifles are generally distinguishable from semiautomatic civilian versions only by their left side mounted selector switches. Semiautomatic rifles have two positions: safe and fire, while true military rifles have three: safe, semiautomatic and fully automatic or burst. AR-15 rifles require modern manufacturing materials, tools and methods. They are light, ergonomically exceptional, reliable if properly cleaned and maintained and highly accurate. They are also relatively costly. The design makes considerable use of plastics and aircraft-grade aluminum.

Most semiautomatic AR-15 variants have the same flash suppressor (on the end of the barrel), bayonet mounting lug (under the barrel and under the front sight above), and collapsible stock as their fully automatic counterparts. This is so because they are generally made with the same blueprints and on the same machinery as their genuinely military cousins. These devices have no sinister design or purpose.

While the collapsible stock does slightly shorten–a bit over 3”–the overall length of the weapon, its primary purpose is to allow adjustment of length of pull to adapt to a wide range of shooters, an important consideration in a general issue weapon. Also, soldiers wearing heavy body armor need shorter stocks as well, however do not wear such armor all the time. In other words, soldiers wearing body armor and shorter people with shorter arms need a shorter stock than taller people. Rather than stock rifles with many different length stocks, a collapsible stock solves that problem cheaply and effectively.

A bayonet lug is merely a metal projection to which the standard military bayonet attaches. Such lugs–and bayonets–have never been a factor in crime.

A flash suppressor merely serves to redirect and lessen the muzzle flash of the rifle–it is not a suppressor–helping to keep from revealing the position of a prone soldier. Rifles are used in only a tiny fraction of crimes, and as with bayonet lugs, flash suppressors simply do not figure in crimes; they are no help at all to criminals.

The three primary features anti-liberty activists often demonize have no role whatever in crime, and do not in any way make any AR-15 variant more dangerous or deadly than any semiautomatic rifle chambered in 5.56mm/.223 Remington.

Fun Fact:Since the Vietnam era, the 30 round magazine has been the standard magazine for the AR-15 family, including civilian and military versions.Magazines do not determine semi or full auto ability. They will fit any rifle designed to accept them, even bolt-action rifles.

AK-47

This is an AK-47. This rifle is a true assault rifle; it is capable of fully automatic fire. Semiautomatic only versions are available to the general public. Much less expensive and less accurate than the AR-15 family, these rifles are very reliable and can be made in third world workshops with cheap materials. The receivers are generally stamped and folded metal. Though a few variants of the AK have been made with machined receivers, they are rare.

Fully automatic firearms have been strictly regulated since 1934. In 1986, gun control proponents actually snuck a provision through Congress banning civilian ownership of newly manufactured fully automatic weapons in an amendment attached to the Firearm Owner’s Protection Act by a very questionable voice vote at the last possible second. Because the rest of the bill did so much to advance the Second Amendment cause, its proponents let it pass, possibly hoping to repeal that provision in the future. To date, that future has yet to arrive. Citizens can still own a machine gun manufactured prior to 1986 by submitting to a rigorous, expensive and lengthy federal process, but the law has greatly increased the rarity, hence the cost of such weapons.

Tavor semiautomatic riflecredit: outdoorhub.com

This is an Israeli Tavor. A relatively recent invention, it is a “bullpup” assault rifle. The primary advantage of this configuration is it can retain a full length barrel of 16-20” in a much shorter overall package. This is desirable for weapons used in close quarters urban combat. The Tavor, like the AR-15, is manufactured in fully automatic versions for the military and police, and semiautomatic versions–which are not assault rifles–for citizens.

Despite what anti-gunners say, rifles like the AR-15 are excellent hunting weapons and are commonly used for that purpose. The usefulness of a hunting rifle is determined primarily by its cartridge and secondarily, by its utility in the outdoors. Highly accurate, the AR-15’s cartridge is effective on game animals the size of a coyote or smaller, and its rust-resistance, rugged construction, light weight and its ability to be easily accessorized make it an excellent field gun. Another advantage of AR-15 pattern rifles is cartridge interchangeability. Uppers–the portion of the rifle encompassing the upper receiver (barrel, sights, etc.) can be quickly and easily changed to another caliber. Any cartridge with dimensions that fit an AR magazine can be made to work.

Fun Fact: Actual assault rifles must be carefully aimed to be effective. Because they are relatively light and fire an intermediate–never a high-powered rifle–cartridge, uncontrolled automatic fire tends to ventilate the surrounding countryside, but not the target. Professionals fire from the shoulder, and in only two to three round bursts when automatic fire is employed.

The primary advantages of the assault rifle over the battle rifle are assault rifles are generally considerably lighter and their ammunition is also lighter. A substantially larger quantity of ammunition may be carried in the same available space without additional weight. While it is true that assault rifles do not have the same power and range as battle rifles, engagement distances in battle are now much shorter than they were in previous wars, and usually well within assault rifle range.

Fun Fact: Semiautomatic versions of true assault rifles are not easy or quick to convert to fully automatic capability. Federal law requires semiautomatic look-alike weapons to be purposely difficult to convert, requiring specialized skills, knowledge and tools to accomplish. Unlike what some would have us believe, it is not merely a matter of switching a few parts. Unlawful possession of fully automatic parts is treated exactly as unlawful possession of a complete firearm under federal law.

Fun Fact: Part of the enormous popularity of the AR-15 is female shooters find it easy and fun to use.

(6) Fires a full-sized rifle cartridge such as the .308/7.62 X 51 mm or 30.06.

The Model 1903 Springfield (30.06 caliber) used in WWI by American forces is generally conceded to be an example of a true battle rifle, despite the fact that it has only a five round internal magazine and is bolt operated. However, truly modern battle rifles—essentially weapons designed and fielded after WWI—have the characteristics listed above.

M1 Garand Battle Rifle

This is the M1-Garand, called “the greatest battle implement ever devised” by General George Patton. It was America’s issued rifle during WWII. It has an internal, 8 round magazine and loads from a spring steel clip holding its rounds. When the last round is fired, the rifle automatically ejects the empty clip. Many misidentify magazines as “clips.” The only currently manufactured firearm that employs a clip is the M1. It fires the 30.06 cartridge, though some more recent versions of the weapon have been produced in .308 caliber, which is shorter and lighter than the 30.06.

FN-FAL Battle Rifle

This is the FN-FAL, which has all of the characteristics of a true modern battle rifle, particularly feeding from a removable box magazine. Made in metric and inch versions, it is still in use around the world and was particularly favored by the British and Australians. Even the Israelis have used this outstanding rifle. It fires the .308 cartridge, commonly from 20 round magazines. Thirty round magazines are available but are generally considered to be too long to be truly useful, particularly for military use. They make prone use problematic. Competent civilians also tend to avoid them. Earlier versions of battle rifles tended to have wooden stocks, but more modern versions generally have synthetic stocks.

M-14 Battle Rifle

Some battle rifles such as the FN-FAL and the M-14 have been made in fully automatic versions, but all have proved unsatisfactory in that role. Despite the fact that battle rifles weigh 10 pounds and more, that is insufficient weight to make them controllable under fully automatic fire. Their lighter barrels also tend to overheat quickly. Adding a heavier barrel only makes the weapon heavier and clumsier. The useful range of battle rifles is 500 yards or more.

Fun Fact:The standard sized magazine for modern battle rifles, due to the larger size of their ammunition, is usually 20 rounds. In addition, because military battle rifles are generally not fully automatic, their civilian counterparts are often identical.

Fun Fact: It is incorrect to call the removable magazines of pistols or rifles “clips.” The only currently manufactured, widely available firearm that actually uses clips is the M1 Garand battle rifle. Some military ammunition is packed in “stripper clips,” but these are merely small metal strips that hold a number of cartridges–usually 10–together to allow them to be more easily loaded into magazines. They are not ammunition feeding devices.

SUBMACHINE GUN: These weapons are so called because they use sub-rifle caliber ammunition: pistol rounds such as the 9mm or .45 ACP. While there are long-barreled, semiautomatic versions of these weapons on the market, true submachine guns generally have barrels in the 10″ or shorter range. Any long gun with a barrel of less than 16″ is treated the same as a fully automatic weapon in terms of federal licensing. This is why the faux suppressor on the MP5SD6 replica that heads this article is longer than the real suppressor on the actual MP5: it encloses the federally mandated 16” barrel.

Thompson M1 Submachine Gun

This is a Thompson M1, the primary version used by the US Military during and after WWII. It was an attempt to cut down manufacturing costs compared to the Thompson 1928, which had a compensator, top mounted cocking handle, finned barrel, fine walnut furniture and an easily removable stock, a fine blued finish and an internal device called a “Blish Lock,” which was supposed to have aided function and reliability while slowing the cyclic rate. I’ve fired 1928s and M1s and have never been able to feel the slightest difference in function.

The M1 was much less expensive to produce–$70.00, and eventually as low as $45.00–but still many times more time-consuming and expensive than weapons like the M3 “Greasegun,” which cost a bit less than $20.00 to make. The M1 did not have a removable stock, much simpler sights, no barrel finning, no Blish lock, no compensator, was parkerized, could not accept drum magazines, and had a side mounted cocking handle.

credit: americanrifleman.com

The Thompson is a first generation design requiring first class materials, tools and a high degree of craftsmanship to produce. As a result, Thompsons tended to work very well indeed and troops loved them, but when huge numbers were needed, the cost was prohibitive. Even so, many consider the Thompson an ideal submachine gun. Its cyclic rate of .45 ACP rounds is in the 650 round per minute range, which for a general purpose SMG is generally considered perfect. The M1 accepts up to 30 round magazines, while the 1928 accepts those and 50 and 100 round drums.

The Thompson fires from an open bolt—it is a direct (or delayed, in the 1928) blowback action–so when the trigger is pulled, the entire massive bolt assembly flies forward under powerful spring tension, firing the cartridge. This is done to avoid the problem of “cooking off” ammunition, which can occur if the chamber becomes so hot ammunition spontaneously fires when chambered. The movement of the heavy bolt unsettles the gun, making accuracy more difficult, but competent shooters can do very well indeed.

H&K MP5 Submachine Gun

This is the Heckler and Koch MP5, perhaps the most famous SWAT and special operations submachine gun available today. It primarily fires the 9mm cartridge and 30 round magazines are standard. At one time, long barreled, semiautomatic only versions of this fine firearm were imported from Germany, but President George H.W. Bush banned such imports. Some were made domestically under license, but never in significant numbers.

It is a third generation design that differs from the Thompson in many ways. Much of the weapon is constructed of plastics and stampings, reducing manufacturing cost and time, but for other reasons, the weapon is still quite expensive. It fires from a closed bolt using a roller-locking system unique to some H&K firearms. By the time the MP5 was introduced, design improvements had essentially overcome the cooking off problem. Weapons that fire from a closed bolt have greater inherent accuracy and are easier to fire accurately.

The MP5 is available in a wide variety of configurations–including a very effective version with an integral suppressor–weighing in the 6-7 pound range. Cyclic rate depends on the version of the weapon, but most are in the 800 RPM and higher range. This particular version of the MP5 has three separate firing modes: semiautomatic, three round burst, and fully automatic.

Fun Fact: TV and the movies have fostered a great many misconceptions about submachine guns. The primary advantage of these weapons is their ability to place multiple rounds on target quickly, thus enhancing their effect on a target. They are also useful for engaging targets that may expose themselves for only seconds, or that move very quickly. Accuracy is just as important with a submachine gun as with any other type of firearm. Aiming and firing from the shoulder is absolutely necessary.

Competent operators do not fire entire magazines, but fire short, well-aimed bursts of 2-3 rounds. With weapons like the Thompson, this is accomplished almost exclusively through trigger control: pressing and holding the trigger exactly the proper amount of time to fire a single round, two rounds, three rounds, etc. With the Thompson’s relaxed rate of fire, this is easy to do. These trigger control techniques can also be employed with weapons like the MP5, but burst features are also available on many models. Still, more experienced shooters will often ignore burst settings and use trigger control instead.

Fun Fact: Firing from the hip or waving the muzzle wildly from side to side while emptying a magazine—which looks dramatic and macho in movies–is an excellent way to miss everything you’re trying to hit and hitting everything you’re not trying to hit. This is commonly known as “spray and pray.” Remember that a tiny deviation at the muzzle equals missing by feet, yards and acres as the distance to a target increases.

Submachine guns do not recoil so wildly on full automatic as to knock their shooter backward, nor do they inevitably fly irresistibly upward and out of a shooter’s hands, a common misconception about the Thompson. They are, after all, essentially small rifles weighing as much as ten pounds or more loaded, firing handgun cartridges. With proper training and technique, they are very controllable and accurate and recoil effect is minimal. Because they fire pistol cartridges, their effective range is generally limited to 100 yards and less.

Submachine guns fire from detachable box magazines and are designed to be carried and used by a single operator. Submachine guns are useful in law enforcement not only because of their suppressive fire potential—they can keep armed bad guys pinned down and unable to shoot—but because they are shoulder fired, and because of their longer barrels and longer sight radius relative to handguns, they are easier to shoot accurately at greater than handgun ranges and do not suffer from over-penetration if proper ammunition is employed.

LIGHT MACHINE GUNS: True machine guns are belt-fed. In other words, their ammunition comes in long belts with the cartridges joined by metal links. When the weapon fires, it ejects empty brass and disassembled links.

M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW)

The most commonly known light machine gun in current American forces use is the FN M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW). Because of it’s relatively light weight (about 17 pounds unloaded) and compact size, as well as the fact that it is commonly fed from 200 round pre-packed plastic ammunition boxes that easily attach to the gun, it, unlike most true machine guns, can be and almost always is carried and fired by a single soldier. The M249 also accepts standard AR-15 30 round magazines, an advantage of firing the same standard 5.56 NATO cartridge. Logistics is always a vital military concern. Having to stock the smallest number of calibers possible is highly desirable.

While the M249 does potentially offer somewhat greater range than an AR-15, its cartridge is well known to be a mediocre penetrator of cover and building materials. However, for the generally shorter military engagement ranges of today, it’s a reliable, useful weapon.

Fun Fact:M249s are often seen in movies and on TV.

GENERAL PURPOSE MACHINE GUNS: America’s GPG is the iconic M60, in widespread use since Vietnam. Despite an initially finicky reputation and some odd design features—such as the ability of the gas piston to be installed backward, turning the gun into a huge single shot rifle—regular improvements have been made over the years and it is still in limited service.

M60 General Purpose Machine Gun

As the illustration demonstrates, most M60s come with an integral bipod. While the weapon can be carried by a single soldier–it weighs about 23 pounds unloaded–it is truly a crew served weapon. Crew served weapons commonly have a gunner and one or more soldiers assigned to keep ammunition linked and running, and to change the issued spare barrel when a barrel becomes too hot.

There are cut-down, lighter weight versions of the M60, some with shorter barrels, making it easier to carry and fire for a single operator, but most GPG’s are mounted in helicopters, HumVees or other military vehicles.

Firing the .308 cartridge, the M60’s range is essentially equal to that of the FN-FAL, the M-14 and other battle rifles: 500+ yards. True machine guns do not recoil like rifles: they vibrate.

Fun Fact:When Sylvester Stallone went berserk and shot up everything in sight with a machine gun in several of the Rambo movies, he was using a blank-firing M60.

While the M60 is still in limited military use, the American version of the FN MAG58, the M240 is in wider general use.

M240 General Purpose Machine Gun

This machine gun weighs approximately 28 pounds unloaded and is belt fed. It is considered to be more reliable than the M60. Like the M60, it is generally carried by a single soldier, but is truly a crew served weapon. There are a number of variants available and in wide use, and this weapon is often vehicle and aircraft mounted.

HEAVY MACHINE GUNS: All heavy machine guns are crew served weapons, and generally require rather large crews as they burn through ammunition quickly and are large and heavy. The most famous of such weapons is arguably the Browning M2 heavy barrel in .50 BMG caliber. Introduced in 1921, it was one of the weapons that won WWII. It was used not only on tanks and other armored vehicles, but in fighter and bomber aircraft. Like the model 1911 .45 ACP pistol, it is one of John Moses Browning’s most enduring designs and is still the western heavy machine gun standard.

Browning M2 Heavy Barrel Heavy Machine Gun, Tripod Mounted

Fun Fact: In B-17 bombers in WWII, Browning .50 gunners were given only 1000 rounds of ammunition due to weight limitations. Their linked ammunition was about nine yards long, hence the saying “I gave him the whole nine yards,” made by gunners who fired all their ammunition at attacking German fighters.

Lighter versions of the weapon weigh 84 pounds. Because of the great weight, the weapon is always fired from a tripod or solidly mounted on tanks or other vehicles. It is still used in some aircraft applications as well. Prior to the invention of .50 BMG sniper rifles, the machine gun was sometimes fitted with telescopic sights and used in the extreme-long range sniper role by legendary Vietnam era sniper Carlos Hathcock, among others.

Fun Fact:The difference between a machine gun and an automatic cannon is the ammunition. Machine guns almost exclusively fire non-explosive projectiles—solid bullets. Cannons, automatic or not, fire exploding projectiles–cannon shells. Machine gun ammunition is expressed in caliber such as .308, or in its metric designation, 7.62mm. Cannon ammunition is virtually always expressed in the metric system such as 25mm or 30mm. Contemporary cannon ammunition is generally at least 20mm in size.

There are automatic grenade launchers, but they are not true automatic cannons. They fire grenades, and generally at much slower rates of fire, velocities and shorter ranges than cannon. In fact, it is commonly possible to see the grenades they fire in flight with the naked eye.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

Anti-gunners, or those who are simply not familiar with firearms often ask: “who needs a 30 round magazine,” or “who needs an AR-15,” or “who needs a machinegun?” Set aside the fact that firearm historians, collectors and instructors do, in fact, “need” such weapons and accessories. The underlying issue is one of inalienable rights and freedom. If a 30 round magazine is deemed too dangerous for honest, law-abiding free men to own today, won’t a 20 round magazine be too dangerous tomorrow, and a ten round magazine the day after? Ten round magazines have already proved too dangerous for New York State politicians who have banned all but seven round magazines. As I’ve pointed out here, for the AR-15 and similar rifles, 30 round magazines are standard, not “large capacity.” Freedom may be taken in a step-by-step, little by little process, but once lost, it is exceedingly difficult to regain.

No one needs a car that can exceed, say 50 MPH, and no one needs a 60″ TV–after all, they use a great deal of electricity–but few want politicians and bureaucrats telling them what they need. The primary difference is the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental unalienable right, which springs from the unalienable right to self- defense. Even without the Second Amendment–which does not bestow a right to keep and bear arms–the right would still exist. In the same way, because one can never know how many rounds one might need to protect lives, arbitrary magazine capacity limits ultimately cost rather than save lives. Multiple armed criminals have committed many recent home invasions. Innocent citizens are alive today because they had magazines of sufficient capacity to put their attackers to flight, or stop them.

In an ironic sense, federal regulation of machineguns is one of the greatest crime-prevention success stories of all time. With perhaps a single exception, no federally registered machine gun has ever been used in a crime. But this has nothing to do with federal regulations. In order to own a machine gun, suppressor (there is no such thing as a “silencer”), even a rifle or shotgun with a barrel shorter than 16″, one must be fingerprinted, undergo local, state and federal record checks, meet all legal criteria, receive the OK from a local sheriff or police chief, pay a $200.00, non-transferrable tax, and submit to a wide variety of federal regulations relating to storage and transportation. Machine guns are not misused because those willing to undergo such an onerous procedure are surely among the most honest, honorable and law-abiding Americans. A machinegun in their hands is no more dangerous to the public than a single shot, bolt-action .22LR rifle.

Ultimately, the answer to those questions is simple. The Second Amendment secures the individual right to keep and bear arms, but self-defense is its secondary purpose. The Second Amendment secures every other amendment. It secures liberty itself. It is the ultimate empowerment of citizens to resist tyranny, whether it asserts itself little by little and with smiles and assurances, or in outright warfare. In resisting tyranny, an AR-15, 30 round magazines, and even machine guns are not only needed by patriots, they are mandatory if liberty is to survive.

Those who would take such weapons from honest citizens know that very well indeed.

Next week, an AR-15 primer. I hope, as always, gentle readers, to see you there.

17 thoughts on “A Basic Long Gun Primer”

I’m a big fan of the AR and AK platforms. I was a bit leery of the AK at first given its history, and actually tried its shotgun cousin first, the Saiga 12. But after getting over the history I’ve found the AK is a lot like a rusty claw hammer I have in my toolbox: It’s not pretty and can’t fix everything but I use it more than I would expect, and I don’t worry about it.

I always have to think about the AR. I can’t feed it steel case ammo. It doesn’t like the cheap Russian brass either. I’ve got to keep it clean. But it is much more accurate than the AK, so comes out whenever I need precision.

Thanks! Interestingly, every AR I’ve ever owned digests Russian steel cased ammo with no difficulties. This could be a 5.56 v. .223 chambering issue. You might wish to visit this site for a good recitation of the relevant facts: http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

The “whole nine yards” was used before WW-2. There are many different stories on the origin of that saying and one might even be true.
At least once J.M.B. used “clip” on a patent drawing of a magazine. If he can say clip, I can say clip.

Used MUCH before WWII, this was originally a reference to the amount of cloth that could be woven on a hand loom, which was restricted by the length of the woof threads (length of the cloth / vertical orientation) which could be wound on the supply bar (above/behind the working face of the loom).
This became a standard commercial unit of cloth. (also known as a bolt)
John in Indy

Please forgive me for this off-topic question. Where does the weight term “35,01 $,” as in, This machine gun weighs approximately 35,01 $… come from? I now see it in many posts and Google does not help. Thank you.
MQP

Dear Mike McDaniel,
Thank you.
When you entered the weight in the sentence, “This machine gun weighs approximately…”, did you use the term “lbs,” as in 35.01 lbs, or, perhaps, the term “pounds?”
Does your web application make the changes automatically?
MQP

Hey Mike
As A good old boy originally from the Hills of West Virginia , I have seen many deer of good size knocked down by 5.56 and its 223 cousin. My former father in Law used to use a 22 hornet and killed quite a few . Of course with him, many came after post civil twilight with the aid of a light ,