I have gazed the sky or any light and I can see more and more clearly this sphere of light: Thigle.Unfortunately, I have found quite difficult to make great progress in this practice, my body seems to be more lighter the more I practice it.

I don't really know what I need, I would love to hear some experiences from that and if they have seen some progress.I know that the Heart is playing a great role in this process of dissolving into light.

Did you expierence it while meditating?And was it in yourself when you have yr eyes closed, or somwhere outside with open eyes?Did you use incense when you had that feeling?

Because I saw it in me when I had my eyes closed and burned some incense. But only once many years ago. I was that time in Dharamsala, where is much more spiritual vibration compare to the place where I live now.

This response may sound a little redundant or simplistic to you, but...

Thogal practice is something that is not generally discussed on an open forum like this. This is something that should be talked about with a true, genuine, Dzogchen master from an authentic lineage. I know that you wrote about your skeptism about samaya, but it may be wise to learn something about it. I would really, really urge you to seek out a qualified master.

There is a list of Dzogchen Lamas at the top of the Dzogchen forum, it's a good place to start. Diligently investigate the ones you are interested in, because simply being listed here is no guarantee that they have really brought their practice to its culmination, or that their conduct is okay. Also, there are others not listed.

I can try. Where are you? We can go from there. Actually this board is a great resource because there are a number of very dedicated practitioners from all over the globe. I'm sure that me or somebody else can help you get established with a genuine teacher. I read your introduction. I know that some of the comments that people posted about your teacher seemed harsh and unjust. In Dzogchen, though, lineage is very, very important. There are a number of teachers out there so I think it would be worthwhile for you to look into finding one that has the backing of a genuine lineage. That way you know its the real deal. There are also the teachings of Choegyal Namkhai Norbu, who holds regular Dzogchen retreats that you can view over webcast. Look up Dzogchen Community to find out more. I am a member of this community and I think it is an exceptional resource, but I find that the webcasts are no substitute for one on one interactions with a teacher and sangha. It would be a good place to start, though. So post your location and your desire to find a Dzogchen teacher and people will certaintly help you out! Also, please don't be offended by what you may see as criticism directed towards your current teacher. I read your responses, which you claimed were not coming from your intellect- but all of our judgements come from our intellect, that is its function. This is one of the reasons why the path of Dzogchen can be dangerous without the support of a real teacher. It is very easy to think that we are resting in rigpa or having genuine realization, when really it could be nothing more than our own ego deluding us. That is the funtion of the ego- delusion. I guess I am trying to suggest that you be open to these criticisms, and give them some thought. Many of these folks here have a lot of experience, and it would be worthwhile to listen to what they say. Listen, I have to go now, it is finally snowing out here in New Hampshire and the pup is ready to play! I wish you well on your path, and I will do what I can to assist you.

there is a path that you need to follow. This path involves a starting point. It involves overcoming your obscurations and delusion. You may be disappointed if you go to a teacher looking for Thogal advice and they give you something completely different. A good teacher knows how to give us the instructions that are the most applicable, like a doctor giving you the right medicine. This is good advice.

I have seen the limitation of Candice and her teaching. And I am more interested in the knowledge I can get from a genuine teacher in Dzogchen lineage.I am still using my intellect, that's for sure but it is like a tool. I am not completely talking from the Heart but I am more identified as the Heart than anything else. It is a instinctive felt sense.

ChNN is the real deal. The webcasts make his teachings very accessable. There is one coming up very soon, if it is not closed you should tune in and see what he is all about. Remember that the webcast times are posted for the location of the retreat, so you'll have to adjust the time accordingly. Check out the website if you haven't already, you'll see what I am talking about. The teachings of ChNN are very direct and to the heart, they are very fitting for modern day practitioners. You need to recieve transmission from him in order to do the practices, but as long as you tune into the webcast live, you can recieve the transmsissions that way. The fact that he is coming to your country so soon is very auspicious. If I were you I would take advantage of that. Let me know if you have any questions. I am very pleased and excited for you, this is really good!

there is a path that you need to follow. This path involves a starting point. It involves overcoming your obscurations and delusion. You may be disappointed if you go to a teacher looking for Thogal advice and they give you something completely different.

Yes, probably over a decade of feverish practice starting with ngondro accumulations on the order of 100k repetitions.

there is a path that you need to follow. This path involves a starting point. It involves overcoming your obscurations and delusion. You may be disappointed if you go to a teacher looking for Thogal advice and they give you something completely different.

Yes, probably over a decade of feverish practice starting with ngondro accumulations on the order of 100k repetitions.

2 decades is the minimum.

/magnus

We are all here to help each other go through this, whatever it is.~Kurt Vonnegut

"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."- Longchenpa

"Even though you have recognized your essence, if you do not get accustomed to it,You will be carried away by the enemy of thoughts, like a small child in a battle field.So long as you are not free from the limitations of accepting and rejecting,That long will you not recognize the view of the innermost secret heart-essence."

If you are a student of CHNN, it isn't at all necessaryto do 100 thousand accumulations. CHNN is a teacher of Dzogchen but does not require ngondro, it is howeveran option.

The title of this thread: Thogal Practice: Tigle... is not necessarily an equation that spells out whether or not the OP hashad transmission and instruction in the practice he/she mentions,so one can't assume that the OP has had direct introduction, or that that direct introduction has also become stable. Without it the higher practice the OP mentions does not work, this is another reason why the OP would want to reallypractice for a very good long time with CHNN's guidance if he/she is inclinedto do so.

I fled Him, down the nights and down the days; I fled Him, down the arches of the years; I fled Him, down the labyrinthine ways, Of my own mind; and in the mist of tears, I hid from Him, and under running laughter. Up vistaed hopes I sped; And shot, precipitated, Adown Titanic glooms of chasmèd fears, From those strong Feet that followed, followed after. But with unhurrying chase, And unperturbèd pace, Deliberate speed, majestic instancy, They beat - and a Voice beat - More instant than the Feet - ‘All things betray thee, who betrayest Me.’

Yudron wrote:Also, the best kind of lama probably will not tell us what we want to hear.

Given the sensitivity of the topic, I'd like to bring this thread to a close now that Open Intelligence's question has been answered helpfully from a couple of perspectives. Please PM me or another moderator if there's a reason to reopen the thread, and I'll consider it. thanks