man, I know I am about to unleash some horseshit level hypocrisy, but there is some ridiculous fucking talk in this thread right now.

Yes, Guest is an idiot, but he's our idiot. I guess no individual one of us gets to decide when someone has gone beyond the pale, and it becomes a community concencus, frequently unspoken, that someone has gone too far and cannot come back (hew DW!).

Guest has said some fucking awful, reprehensible, undefenceable things, but comments like 'yah but his moms be crazy yo' or 'if he even knew his dad' are just fucked, guys. All we know we know from him, and we know his mum has been pretty fucked but she's still his mum. Fuck, in the midst of him going fucking crazy he remembered how to be a human being for about five seconds and posted a really sweet picture of him and his father and posted about how happy it made him feel. That is all I know about his fucking dad.

He went all fucking wrong, and the way this thread has gone -- which is just as much my fault -- is only going to push him further into all fucking wrongheadedness.

He's an idiot. He was an idiot before he broke inside his head and started hating women, but he was still our idiot. It's why I feel guilty every time Thy goes off the rails (sorry to talk about you like you're not here, baby) -- he's still part of our community. It's why I feel a twinge of guilt every time I call Darqcyde a moron, or when I'm glad that fucking boring fart bitflipper stopped posting after positing you could pay a woman to be pregnant like you pay someone to mow your lawn.

I'm not advocating they need to mollycoddled and hugged, the total opposite and that is what Sinfest has given Guest, that these fucking shithag dickwigs are giving him.

Of course he's an idiot, of course he should be called on being an idiot, but should we keep going on about how much of a fucking idiot he is when he's not here to defend himself?

again, I am completely aware of how insanely hypocritical this post is.

also, I am aware of how Guest would react to it:

"Well, Dennis, I would not expect a one of your elementary level schooling to grasp what I am saying."

This is pretty much why I didn't post any of the pictures from his photobucket. I mean, there's being a dick, and then there's being a dick. I feel the forum post is fair game, because it was about this forum and it's users, after all. Personal attacks are pretty low._________________Juke Joint Jezebel

I posted that pic only because I know I've seen it post elsewhere here in this forum, by guest himself to show off his long hair and/or glasses, I don't recall exactly, I think it's in one of the photo threads._________________...if a single leaf holds the eye, it will be as if the remaining leaves were not there.http://about.me/omardrake

This is pretty much why I didn't post any of the pictures from his photobucket. I mean, there's being a dick, and then there's being a dick. I feel the forum post is fair game, because it was about this forum and it's users, after all. Personal attacks are pretty low.

Indeed. I don't think anyone here would willingly ruin his life. It COULD be worse though. Someone could have shooped any of the pics to make him get slinky with a goat or whatever. But no one here's THAT bad... right?

He's an idiot. He was an idiot before he broke inside his head and started hating women, but he was still our idiot.

I am sincerely happy that you are in a position insulated and comfortable enough from his creepiness and his targeting of my gender to feel like you can put yourself out there and care about him in any sense, but I am sure you understand that others may not feel any community with him on account of the things that he did. That they can in fairness not feel compelled to shed a single tear over Guest being derided here, whether or not he is here to defend himself. Which shouldn't be important, because you know what he would be doing if he were here, now, trying to defend himself.

Add to that: when he is actively involving himself with misogynist cretins and in so doing directing multiple such people this way.

I don't even know how to respond to that post, or any of this mess._________________Once, at a local NOW meeting where I was the only male among about a dozen women, a feminism trivia contest was held. I came in third.

It is that hard thing of remembering that although I can consider myself an ally, I am not a woman, and will never be a woman.

also I just remembered that time when I was talking about how I'd walk my girlfriend home from work at night because she didn't feel safe, and he called her an idiot coward.

The beliefs he has and the things he says are the beliefs he has and the things he says, and maybe I was just trying to better understand it by thinking he got brainwashed by his NEW FRIENDS or because of his relationship with his mum.

and it is just another reminder, because so often I will go to Tessa -- look at what these idiots are doing and point to some Man Boobz or other great article, and she won't be able to see the funny side because it just makes her feel so fucking tired.

I've also always had a really tumultuous, rocky relationship with Guest, so I am not entirely sure what drove me to write a post defending a child porn apologist misogynist. Some sort of wistful memory of the Guest that used to be, back when he was just an idiot, instead of a hateful idiot.

Anyway._________________Once, at a local NOW meeting where I was the only male among about a dozen women, a feminism trivia contest was held. I came in third.

When I say I'm sincerely happy you can reach out to him or care about him at all in spite of all he's done and how completely impossible it seems to reform him in any meaningful way, that's really sincere. I think it's a good thing.

It's just that the way he is now makes him not just an idiot, but a bad person. Or even if you do not want to label him that way, the important thing is that he's toxic and demeaning and so others really have good reasons to sever, burn bridges, and keep that toxicity away from themselves as much as they can. It's the non-petty element of the revulsion to Guest.

I'm biased, though, in that Guest is in a really short list of people who have thrown misogynistic, gendered shit at me, that I remember, at least. It's not fantastic company. I can't be anything but happy that I don't have to read him talk about women anymore ever.

I would consider the idea that he's still really young and he still has lots of growing up to do and that his attachment to a really creepy group of neurotic anti-woman groups is not entirely assured as permanent, and he may grow up and could come back and be like "yeah sorry guys". But he honestly seems to be lacking in a number of really critical self appraisal skills that would make that easy or possible for him. He is, actually, pretty crazy.

i just don't really want him coming back. whining about how evil James Cameron is for building a submarine to go to the bottom of the ocean and all that nonsense about reddit and child porn, well, i can chalk that up to fixing on some unnecessary distinction that he's convinced matters, and then clinging to it out of pride and stubbornness.

once he started mocking women who expressed fears about rape, well, that's just fucking evil.