noddy wrote:of all the futuristic energy sources the one i have the biggest hopes for and most irrational desire to see succeed is hydrogen fuel cells.

then after ten years of practical use, All "those who really care" will be screaming about how we are using too much water and destroying the planet.

salty tears from those that really care (tm) are an endless source of water - we could get a win win feedback loop going.

The Japanese car manufactures, fwiw, have placed their bet on the future with hydrogen fuel cells rather than electric batteries.

Toyota sold their stake in Tesla and brought out a hydrogen fuel cell powered car instead, the Mirai.

makes sense to me, hydrogen fuel cells have decent energy density, are non toxic, have good storage life and generally share much more of petrols good qualities in comparison to batteries which are lower density, highly toxic and relatively short storage life.

noddy wrote:of all the futuristic energy sources the one i have the biggest hopes for and most irrational desire to see succeed is hydrogen fuel cells.

then after ten years of practical use, All "those who really care" will be screaming about how we are using too much water and destroying the planet.

salty tears from those that really care (tm) are an endless source of water - we could get a win win feedback loop going.

The Japanese car manufactures, fwiw, have placed their bet on the future with hydrogen fuel cells rather than electric batteries.

Toyota sold their stake in Tesla and brought out a hydrogen fuel cell powered car instead, the Mirai.

makes sense to me, hydrogen fuel cells have decent energy density, are non toxic, have good storage life and generally share much more of petrols good qualities in comparison to batteries which are lower density, highly toxic and relatively short storage life.

Fuel cells sound good, but building out the refueling infrastructure will be slow. A Marai is rather limited if you must go to a Toyota dealer to recharge the fuel cell. An electric unit you can recharge overnight in your garage is more practical for short, local driving and a gas engine is still needed for distance.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Fuel cells sound good, but building out the refueling infrastructure will be slow. A Marai is rather limited if you must go to a Toyota dealer to recharge the fuel cell. An electric unit you can recharge overnight in your garage is more practical for short, local driving and a gas engine is still needed for distance.

does depend on infrastructure - fuel cells will be transportable and storable more like petrol, so will fit into that system alot better than electricity which is in the 'use it or lose it' model.

without 3 phase power recharging a car is awfully slow, so that model only works for inner city people.

granted their are more inner city people than their are people like me on the edges

It seems like most of the auto industry is getting hydrogen fever, and we can now add Audi and Mercedes-Benz to that list. Audi used last week's North American International Auto Show in Detroit to debut its h-tron Quattro fuel cell SUV concept, and the UK's Autocar is reporting that Mercedes-Benz has green-lit for production a fuel cell version of its GLC SUV.

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“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA

Nonc Hilaire wrote:Fuel cells sound good, but building out the refueling infrastructure will be slow. A Marai is rather limited if you must go to a Toyota dealer to recharge the fuel cell. An electric unit you can recharge overnight in your garage is more practical for short, local driving and a gas engine is still needed for distance.

does depend on infrastructure - fuel cells will be transportable and storable more like petrol, so will fit into that system alot better than electricity which is in the 'use it or lose it' model.

without 3 phase power recharging a car is awfully slow, so that model only works for inner city people.

granted their are more inner city people than their are people like me on the edges

What does a car fuel cell look like? Weight? I'm envisioning a half-dozen containers similar to BBQ propane tanks per vehicle.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

These all look like they need refueling stations. I'm interested in the portable, user exchangable ones Noddy is talking about. Eliminate the gas station model infrastructure barrier. Bonus points if the hydrogen makes them float like the Hindenberg and I can tote them home like balloons.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

he idea behind this “micro” 200-megawatt reactor (1 megawatt can power 1,000 homes) was to create a mobile energy source for offshore oil and gas exploration, as well as provide electricity, heating, and facilitate desalination for islands and coastal areas.

Now UK budget airline EasyJet thinks it might have found a way to incorporate hydrogen fuel cells into its planes in a way that's safe and cost-effective.

While you'd struggle to find a hydrogen fuel cell refuelling station on your daily commute, these devices can be relatively easily supplied to airports, and EasyJet wants to use them on a limited scale to begin with - during the time that the aircraft are taxiing. That means while you're trundling from the gate to the runway, your plane won't be emitting any harmful carbon emissions, and will be a whole lot quieter.

[...]

“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA

In what would be a milestone for advanced nuclear power, China’s Nuclear Engineering Construction Corporation plans to start up a high-temperature, gas-cooled pebble-bed nuclear plant next year in Shandong province, south of Beijing. The twin 105-megawatt reactors—so-called Generation IV reactors that would be immune to meltdown—would be the first of their type built at commercial scale in the world.

Anyone know any resources for learning about home solar? I hear it is going to make more sense financially as costs drop.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

No. The 80's solar was about putting solar water tanks on your roof and using them to heat your pool and bathtub. They leaked and caused a lot of damage.

Today electrovoltaic panels made in China are becoming affordable, and you sell the excess wattage back to the electric company. It's kind of like prepaying for your electricity in advance, but the homeowner absorbs the maintainance costs, and if you take out a loan there will be a workman's lien on your property.

In California and Nevada companies will lease your roof and your grid connection for their equipment, but that is not legal in Florida. Power companies are fighting these contracts in Nevada, because they are in the power selling business and not the power buying business.

Battery storage is not feasable. The deal hinges on how long it takes to pay off the capex on the equipment and installation. Right now it is at 20 years for gear that has a 30 year lifespan. I think it needs to get down to 5 years before it gets interesting.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

the socialist aspect of the grid means that the rules will keep changing and its not worth throwing that money at your own infrastructure anyway.

grids are fixed cost so losing the customers rich enough to do their own solar setups just makes life more expensive for those too poor to do so, in australia they just changed the rules once that started happening.

Mr. Perfect wrote:Looks like these wonderful alternatives are just around the corner. Reminds me of the 1980s.

Reminds me of the 1970's.

Mr. Perfect wrote:Although to be fair, iirc there was a James bond alternative energy themed movie from the 70's, anyone remember that?

Sure. With one of the most improbable plot MacGuffin's ever put to film, the good-old-boy Sheriff vacationing in Thailand.Although the villain was played by the late great Christopher Lee.

The fundamental problem with wind and solar is that the energy density is too simply low to be practical and economic for large scale power production.

A viable alternative to fossil fuels has been available since 1957: nuclear [fission] power.

The one caveat is that the light water reactor, first developed to power nuclear submarines, is not the best design for large scale power production [loss of moderator can lead to a runaway reaction - a so-called meltdown].

For example, the CANDU heavy water design, which does not require U235 enriched uranium.Loss of moderator leads to a shutdown.

Residential installations are expected to increase by 21 percent this year, but in 2017 the figure will inch upward by about 0.3 percent. The change comes as utilities push back against mandates to buy the electricity and shifting tax policies curb demand. Throw in sliding electricity rates and it’s clear the economic benefits of rooftop panels are no longer so obvious to consumers.

“Christ has no body now but yours. Yours are the eyes through which he looks with compassion on this world. Yours are the feet with which he walks among His people to do good. Yours are the hands through which he blesses His creation.”

The first CO2-emission-free train powered by hydrogen, dubbed ‘hydrail,’ has been unveiled at the Berlin InnoTrans trade show and is due to start operating next year.

The ‘Coradia iLint’ train developed by French company Alstom was presented to the public on Tuesday.

“Alstom is proud to present a breakthrough innovation in clean transportation,” the company’s chairman and CEO, Henri Poupart-Lafarge, said in a statement.

The hydrail will be the first hydrogen passenger train to regularly operate over long distances. It is set to start running in Germany in December 2017, on the Buxtehude-Bremervörde-Bremerhaven-Cuxhaven regional line in Lower Saxony, according to Die Welt.

Letters of intent have also been signed with four German lands for 60 hydrail trains already, and orders for between 40 and 70 more units are expected by the end of 2017, Railway Gazette reported.

“There are a lot of killers. We’ve got a lot of killers. What, do you think our country’s so innocent? Take a look at what we’ve done, too.” - Donald J. Trump, President of the USA