the original posters problem... I would be surprised if its patriots fault seeing as they start with a stock GM head and go form there.

dont you have a stage 2 from them?

no

Team Vision Racing (aka hypsy) wrote:

Darkstars wrote:

^^^ thats Patriots piece of @!#$ valve train for you.

the original posters problem... I would be surprised if its patriots fault seeing as they start with a stock GM head and go form there.

Completely unfair statement.
If Patriot's valvetrains are bad then how come none of the Ecotec guys or LN2 guys running their heads are having issues?
How come there's only a few heads they've had issues with then?

That damage on the OP's head is definately NOT the fault of Patriot. I'm with Scarab that it was over tightened somewhere, somehow. That or it was a casting flaw from GM.

I don't think its unfair at all considering the cost of the to upgrade the valvetrain is less money then a quality valve train costs... assuming they are actually using top quality parts then they are lossing a bunch of money anytime someone buys a stage 2 head over a bare ported head, and given there reputation outside of the jbody world thats definetly not the case.

the lemur wrote:

is that sarcasm or are you being serious

Karo is being serious... in the F-body world Patriot has a very sub-par reputation

Karo is being serious... in the F-body world Patriot has a very sub-par reputation

Except for the fact that he said they have a good reputation in the LSx world. I know my boss has a set of their Stage 3 LS2 heads on his world record TT LS2 0-200-0 motor and would swear by them and their quality, as well as Patriot's customer service..

Karo is being serious... in the F-body world Patriot has a very sub-par reputation

my bad I meant to say Karo is being sarcastic not serious. And Ryne if you've ever talked to Karo about patriot it would be blatently obvious that his comment was sarcasm.... he is not saying they have a good rep

And again.... someone tell me how Patriot has anything to do with this crack? If the thing had dropped a valve, you guys might have a reason to talk about Patriot, but the simple fact is the head cracked, the valvetrain didn't fail, just as it hasn't failed on the fastest full interior NA jbody (PJ). So keep flapping gums all you want but its got zero to do with this thread.

And again.... someone tell me how Patriot has anything to do with this crack? If the thing had dropped a valve, you guys might have a reason to talk about Patriot, but the simple fact is the head cracked, the valvetrain didn't fail, just as it hasn't failed on the fastest full interior NA jbody (PJ). So keep flapping gums all you want but its got zero to do with this thread.

Someone else posted up pics of valve train failure from a Patriot head. I already said the original poster's problem looks like no fault of patriot, but this thread started to change into talking about Patriots quality. That does tend to happen with conversations... a staring topic expands and progresses which is why people can actually carry out conversations. I don't care what cars have or have not held up, I would a 14's second car would be able to hold itself together and stay in one piece. Regandless I will never have faith in the valve train, the head itself I have no issues with, I just would never buy their assembled head. And "keep flapping gums all you want but PJ's car got zero to do with this thread."

And again.... someone tell me how Patriot has anything to do with this crack? If the thing had dropped a valve, you guys might have a reason to talk about Patriot, but the simple fact is the head cracked, the valvetrain didn't fail, just as it hasn't failed on the fastest full interior NA jbody (PJ). So keep flapping gums all you want but its got zero to do with this thread.

Someone else posted up pics of valve train failure from a Patriot head. I already said the original poster's problem looks like no fault of patriot, but this thread started to change into talking about Patriots quality. That does tend to happen with conversations... a staring topic expands and progresses which is why people can actually carry out conversations. I don't care what cars have or have not held up, I would a 14's second car would be able to hold itself together and stay in one piece. Regandless I will never have faith in the valve train, the head itself I have no issues with, I just would never buy their assembled head. And "keep flapping gums all you want but PJ's car got zero to do with this thread."

Its running 14's by making power up to, and shifting at 7500 rpm... so far, reliably... Last I checked, the ET a car runs isn't what maxes a valvetrain, its the RPM it spins to. Boost is a factor, but an extra 1000 rpm over the stock redline is a lot more significant than 18-20 psi of boost. So clearly, despite how people keep bringing up the problems that LSx guys are having with the Patriot valvetrain, the eco stuff seems to be doing fine. Lets remember that comparing LSx to eco is beyond as ridiculous as comparing apples to oranges, and more like comparing apples to leather jackets. I'm not saying any of this to side with Hypsy, I'm just saying that to continually bring up the LSx stuff is pointless... Patriot probably doesn't manufacture their valvetrain parts, more likely they use an outside supplier. Obviously they're not using the same parts in an Ecotec head, being SBC parts won't work in an eco head, so why keep bringing them up?

Stop buying GM vehicles this very moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Save yourself the money and go with some other auto manufacture because believe it or not I saw a GM branded vehicle broke down on the side of the road today and what do you know they MUST ALL be horrible cars because I saw one dead on the road. Theres even rumors floating around that there may be more than just one nation wide broke down.

Stop buying GM vehicles this very moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Save yourself the money and go with some other auto manufacture because believe it or not I saw a GM branded vehicle broke down on the side of the road today and what do you know they MUST ALL be horrible cars because I saw one dead on the road. Theres even rumors floating around that there may be more than just one nation wide broke down.

I think someone is getting a little worried about a possible loss of business here....^^^^

ORLY Im sure hes' getting completely rich off the GP, in fact hell probably sell his cav and buy a Carrera GT when its over with.

Never said he was getting rich, but hes obviously getting very deffensive about the subject, maybe he believes in the product that much. Patriot cant be too bad, Squirlly is throwing some serious abuse at it, and it hasnt let him down....yet

I think someone is getting a little worried about a possible loss of business here....^^^^

ORLY Im sure hes' getting completely rich off the GP, in fact hell probably sell his cav and buy a Carrera GT when its over with.

Never said he was getting rich, but hes obviously getting very deffensive about the subject, maybe he believes in the product that much. Patriot cant be too bad, Squirlly is throwing some serious abuse at it, and it hasnt let him down....yet

Maybe it's the fact that I know first hand the quality of the head since it's on my car.

Maybe it's the fact that I know first hand how good their customer service is because they fixed mine, and a customers head, FREE after we both made the same install error.

If you really think that I'm worried about losing the little bit I'm making on these heads then your crazy. I'd much rather make $25 on a part I know is quality than $100 on a part that will haunt a customer forever and cause them to hate me. Period.

Yes it's nice to make some money, I won't lie, but to think that I'm defending them ONLY to make myself more money is ridiculous. In fact I'd go so far as to call it stupid and insulting. If I seriously doubted their parts I 1) Wouldn't have them on my car or my new project car and 2) Wouldn't be selling them.

I don't like selling junk parts. There are people on here that I have refused to sell a part to just because I knew they'd be complaining about the part and how I sold it to them later. Instead I got them to choose a better part and sold them that instead, and no it didn't cost them that much more so don't think I did it for the money.

So next time you think about posting something like that, don't. It's insulting to me or any business person when you assume that we're only here to make money even if that means selling @!#$ parts. There may be places like that, but I don't and they aren't on JBO.

Stop buying GM vehicles this very moment!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Save yourself the money and go with some other auto manufacture because believe it or not I saw a GM branded vehicle broke down on the side of the road today and what do you know they MUST ALL be horrible cars because I saw one dead on the road. Theres even rumors floating around that there may be more than just one nation wide broke down.

If you really think that I'm worried about losing the little bit I'm making on these heads then your crazy. I'd much rather make $25 on a part I know is quality than $100 on a part that will haunt a customer forever and cause them to hate me. Period.

X2

Hypsy deffinetly doesn't play nice to make sales or profit, in fact lots of people think hes a dick because of blunt straight forward comments. Hes not gonna make stuff or sugar coat anything to make a sale, he hasn't done it yet and I don't think promoting a product he uses and likes fits into the catagory. He defends a product that he believes in, granted nont everyone agrees but not everyone has to.

Cavaliers in general are no longer going to be legal in the state of California because its a well know FACT! that the "Cavalier is known to the state of California to cause cancer and SERIOUS head failure". I thought they meant brain damage but now the truth comes out.................... another truly sad story

If you really think that I'm worried about losing the little bit I'm making on these heads then your crazy. I'd much rather make $25 on a part I know is quality than $100 on a part that will haunt a customer forever and cause them to hate me. Period.

X2

Hypsy deffinetly doesn't play nice to make sales or profit, in fact lots of people think hes a dick because of blunt straight forward comments. Hes not gonna make stuff or sugar coat anything to make a sale, he hasn't done it yet and I don't think promoting a product he uses and likes fits into the catagory. He defends a product that he believes in, granted nont everyone agrees but not everyone has to.

A crack that severe, I can only see one thing causing that........ weak casting. Usually a head will distort/warp WAY before cracking that bad. Even the VERY crack prone 2.3 heads dont crack that bad (unless its a SOHC head, and thats a casting issue)

I still think Patriot should cover it though, as genuine GM parts carry a 1 year warrenty, and their work to the head voids that warrenty....... Thier warrenty should at least cover that of GM's.

Can anyone tell me what valves come with the PS2 head? Are they Ferrea or stock +1mm oversized exhaust and intake valves? I bought this head but it is not in my possession to check. And as far as the patriot valvetrain, I'll be swapping in a 75# supertech kit instead. If I need to buy better valves, I will but I need to know what is the answer on the valves.

make sure you take it to a machine shop that builds engines, and have them check the valve stem diameter. That earlier photo, about the valve snapping off and causing all that damage, that happen to me, twice! with patriot heads. It wasn't until I took the new head to a machine shop that they told me there wasn't enough clearance for oil to keep the valve stems lubricated, and after a few hundred miles, it would stick open, then the piston would slam into the valve breaking it off.

Trust me, you DO NOT what this to happen. Super expensive, and nothing but a PITA. So, once you have valves, please please please get it checked out. Better safe then sorry. I speak from personal experience in this matter.