Readers' comments

Interesting! but you can see our "red Area" we called silence circle and specific in Aguascalientes, we are the number one in suicides, mothers alone and Idolatry (inclusive cult to "saint death", Please continue pray this area.

Malopolanin hit the nail on the head. Marxism and liberation theology pave the way for pentacostalism, and I would add, aetheism. Check the map for my home state of Morelos! This where where Trotsky took refuge and where Ivan Illich founded his anti-school school. Here Catholicism is in free-fall.

Many Mexican American changed churches into the Protestant fold and are now front line soldiers in their new crusade to spread the faith in the old country, hence the lower levels of Catholics in border states. Also many people in Mexico city are irreligious

Actually time to learn from the past about what people need spiritually, and for Buddhists to make a big push. Nothing like making people feel spiritually good about themselves, no matter what their lot, plus a promise of having another -- but better -- go at it when they are reincarnated rather than, as Christians offer, burning in hell because they didn't exactly follow the rules of the Bible, a book that resulted in the wholesale slaughter and attempted genocide of their so-called heathen ancestors.

Out of curiosity, then, what's your explanation as to why Evangelicals are being so successful all through Africa and South America? (Not to mention significant parts of Asia.) Is it just because folks in those areas are so benighted that they don't understand what's good for 'em?

In other words, folks don't understand what's good for 'em. Well, OK, that's one perspective.

Do you think there's any possibility that the Christian account of reality is compelling, thoughtful, hopeful and enlightening? And that by encouraging folks to act in a moral manner, Evangelicals help societies which would otherwise be mired in corruption to respect the rule of law? And that one of the main reasons Africa is emerging from its century-long economic depression is because of Evangelicals who emphasize the Protestant Work Ethic?

If you mean "Love your neighbour as yourself" & the "Golden Rule", sure they are compelling (Christian) ethos. But how many truly practise these moral edicts?? Most are just brazen hypocrites, with self-serving agendas..

As G. K. Chesterton put it, "The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult and left untried."

That said, I've known Evangelicals all my life (hell, I've been one all my life), and while I've known a few that could fit your description, they were definitely in the minority. Most of them were just, well, folks, struggling to do as best as they could in a fallen world, and saddled with a fallen nature. I wish I could say that they were definitely of a higher moral calibre than non-Christians. I can't say that, unfortunately, but I can definitely say that they aren't any worse.

G.K. Chesterton nailed it. In point of fact, I've seen many more non-Christians who are far more 'christian' in outlook & practise, than those self-annointed so-called 'practising' Christians/Evangelicals.

All these phoney hypocrites follow are the superficial rituals & trappings of their self-proclaimed religion, NOT the true 'christian' credos. (Reminds me of those holier-than-thou Pharrisees & Sadducees, whom Jesus chased out of the temple..)

As a Mexican -active Catholic-, it's pretty interesting to get this sort of data. Some months ago I read a superinteresting Economist article about some sort of flourishing Catholicism in historically Protestant England. Now the article is about, among other things, growing Protestantism in historically Catholic Mexico. From my point of view, both are cases of healthy competition to keep the churches attention and activity focused on where they belong, their feligrecy spiritual needs.

Pentecostalism really isn't Protestantism. Pentecostalism is based on Protestantism but it is a new form of Christianity. Pentecostalism, the "new Christian religion" isn't anything similar to Protestantism, that is Anglicanism, Lutheranism and Calvinism/Presbiterianism. The main precept of Protestantism or belief in the written word of the Bible doesn't apply to Pentecostalism. Pentecostalism believes that God can create and create new testimonies. Protestantism calls for people to listen to the Scriptures and speak about them. Pentecostalism calls for the Spirit to derail the Scriptures and subjugate it to their revolutionary "Holy Spirit". This Pentecostalism isn't a foreign thing, it is based on the wreckage that Liberation Theology left.
Countries where the Church spoke against Marxism have no Pentecostal minorities what so ever. While Pentecostalism is strong in countries in which the Church accepted Marxist theory as a tool in the interpretation of the Holy Scriptures and Tradition.
Pentecostalism is Marxism in Biblical dress.

Simply put "religious nuts"! Just like their 'jihadi', 'born-again' & 'evangelical' counterparts.
As the saying goes: One person's delusion is called insanity; mass delusion is called religion!
Holy Carrumbah!!

That's not really accurate. The vast majority of Pentecostals accept the basic Protestant precept that the Bible is the only canonical source of revelation, and that any additional revelations or prophecies (a) may or may not be from God, and (b) even if they are from God, don't have the same level of authority. And most Pentecostals would self-identify as Evangelical Protestants. I'm sure there are exceptions, but this is what all major Pentecostal denominations teach.

Not a very helpful chart. The much tougher statistic to get, but probably more significant, would be the percentage of practicing catholics.

Mexico was run for 300 years as a Spanish province, following a demographic disaster, so no kidding there are a lot of Catholics.

But considering the anticlericism of Mexico following the revolution in 1910, as well as the emergence of a middle class at the end of the 20th century, it is probably more worthwhile to see if Mexico is following Western Europe in becoming less religious (or as they used to say, kicking the church habit).

Michael, I agree with you that more specific data on "actual religious behavior" would be more informative.
However, "Church attendance" may be a good indicator for other religions, but not for Catholicism -at least not for Catholicism in urban areas. Catholicism is defined by distinctive rituals, which are not so present in other varieties of Christianism (Baptism; Eucharist/Holy Communion; Confirmation; Catholic Marriage; Catholic Burial). But church attendance is not as frequent in present Catholicism as, say, it is in other protestant/evangelical branches with the Sunday mass, etc. It was common a couple generations ago, but I would define someone as Catholic by examining if he/she follows all the relevant life events mentioned before under a Catholic ritual.
For the rest of practices, the Church has historically collected much of this information in a systematic way (they have been called the first "Census" agency), these data should be readily available somewhere for someone to dig in. But I guess they won't like to reveal the quantitative evidence of their progressive (and unstoppable) decline.

Because the quality of the Catholic Church is measured by the millions in church. If there are 50 million Catholics and 40 million complain that their religion is passe, let them go. It's better that you reject Catholicism than to keep up the lie that you believe. The millions of Catholics which believe will believe. No government ordinance or revolutionary decree will destroy our Faith. If you practice our religion and wish for statutes that are anti-Christian, give up the Faith already.

I agree with that. Most people I know are gladly Catholic, their prayers and religious and moral believes are typically Catholic, and they follow those important Catholic events in the traditional way, but they don't go to the mass every week, perhaps not even every month. There are millions of Catholics who I would hardly call "non practicing Catholic", because they in fact think and pray like true Catholics and don't intend to be "irreligious" at all, but they simply don't go to the church as often as people used to go decades ago. It is a very different phenomenon from what I was told that happens a lot in Europe, where many people consider themselves Catholic or Protestant for "traditional" or family reasons, but seldom, if ever, follow any of the required rituals and believes of their declared religion.

"Part of the decline is the result of a falling birth rate... so the growth of Catholicism is slower." Surely we are talking about the proportion of the population that is Catholic not the absolute number? Can't see how the birth rate is relevant unless we are to beleive protestants and atheists have upped their birthrate in the same time span.

Would be interesting to see what proportion are simply lapsed and how many have gone evangelical, and is there a link between indigenous beliefs and the lower figures in some states.

More people have died violently in Mexico in the past two years than in war zones Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya or Syria.

More journalist have died in Mexico; it is the most dangerous international assignment. This is part of the reason why journalism coverage is lacking.

It is a different cause: Narco Terrorism vs Militant Islam. And it is more regional rather than World Jihad. The Narco Terror: Murder, Beheadings, Torture stop at the US Border like magic line in the sand.

It is contained compared to Jihad which has international tentacles and grows like the Blob.

Mexico is ravaged by Drug Wars. It is becoming the North American monopoly for cocaine, marijuana and meth. It is a tragedy.

And it will be the model for a future Afghanistan Narco State and Cartel Mafias after NATO leaves the theater.

Not at all. But it would certainly be Mexico without the War on Drugs, what would certainly make it a much more stable and promising country. Anybody who denies the terrible responsibility of the consumer markets don't take the drugs issue seriously. If the US were responsible only for that, but their gun sellers also do Mexico a favor by easily selling all kinds of weapons to drug traffickers.

"People" are not dying violently in Mexico. "People" is too broad a category. The ones doing the dying are for the most part drug cartel members, who are killing each other, some cops and soldiers, and yes, a few unlucky "people" caught in the cross-fire.
If you use the category "people", then, since you are a member of that category, you will, erroneously, conclude that you are at great risk of dying in Mexico in a gun battle. This is not the case.
What is happening in Mexico is certainly a problem, but Mexico is not being "ravaged by drug wars".
Also, there has been no narco-terrorism at all; by definition, terrorism is violence used to achieve political purposes; that is not happening in Mexico; cartels are fighting each other and the government for purely economic reasons.
Finally, do not worry. The PRI will win this year´s election, and will return things to the status quo ante: drug trafficking laissez-faire, which is the policy implemented in the rest of the world.

You remind me of the Costa De Concordia luxury cruise captain after he hit the island and gashed the hull: "We have a minor electrical problem."

When the Drug Cartel displays a pyramid of freshly severed heads showing faces frozen in emotions of horror and pain, prominently placed in the town square => then EVERYONE is affected and terrorized. Everyone will be haunted by PTSD nightmares.

It is nonsense, magical thinking to believe all the murderers will be murdered by other murderers and then we end up with a virtuous society.

99% of the murders will NEVER be solved. Murderers go free. Societies are never improved by having murderers on the loose.

My point was to show up the glib remarks certain people are so wont to make regarding this very complex and equally pernicious situation that was named "War on Drugs" by some hacks in D.C. No reasonable person would contend the point that Mexico would less unstable and a bit more promising without the drug problems (not just in the US, but in Mexico itself). Without assigning any gratuitous blame to the participants in this so-called "War on Drugs", to suggest that Mexico would not still have the structural social, political and economical problems it now has, is simply disingenuous. We, in the US, must address our part (dealing with the issues as realistically as possible, as opposed to wishfully); and Mexico must address the many underlying structural problems that allow a handful of criminal gangs to hold the whole country hostage to their whims. Assigning gratuitous blame only to the other side will not address the problems accurately, let alone solve them. I find those on our side of the border who blame everything on the Mexicans just as dishonest, as I find those Mexicans who blame everything on us. Those who are serious about trying to solve this problem are fully aware that "it takes two to tango"...

Now that I can read your remarks in a more well explained way, I do agree with your points. You're right. Putting all the blame for all the problems of one's country onto the neighbor coutnries is too much of a temptation for one to resist, but it has been repeatedly proven wrong and simplistic.

The Catholic church as the other churches has to react to our changing world:population is rapidly increasing their levels of education , they no longer accept faith over logical explanations. They have to respect the right of information and no longer cover the sex predators ( priest) and punish them accordingly , long sums of charities went to law suits and we all know that without any benefit to the church and its followers . Celibate is no longer seeing as a life dedicated to preach and probably an important cause of sex abuses(not the only one , they will have to put an strong eye on the recruiting and the contamination of that problem on the high spheres ).Preparation of priest on their sermons which are amazingly boring and repeating the old basics . They need to change and change fast as the world requires in order to survive.

The porportion of Catholics in the world increases every year as do the number of priests, mostly in Africa and Asia. Particularly in Asia, much of this growth is in areas of high educational attainment. No one becomes an atheist because of logic. Either you feel the presence of a divine being or you don't.

That said, I do agree that changes need to be made. I don't believe celibacy is a problem though. If that were the case, extra-marital affairs would not occur. Priests who wish to marry are welcome to leave the priesthood and serve in lay positions, which many in fact do. But women should be ordained as priests and I do believe with time this will happen.

Ultimately the Vatican is not the decisionmaker, that would be the Catholic Church, ie the body of believers. When 98% of Catholic women in developed countries use birth control, that just tells you the Vatican needs to stop navel-gazing and listen to what Catholics have to say.

They have changed the ways priests are trained. now a days its almost harder to become a priest than it is to be a doctor. PJP II made changes in the 90s. most if not all of the priests accused were ordained before those changes and werent subject to the intense training

eastern rite catholic priests can be married (look those up if you dont know what that is, its a long story) and so can lutheran and anglican converts. They cant be made bishops though. I think the main reason (but they wont admit it) priests cant marry is financial difficulties. Most married priests are usually teachers in a school.Thats probably the only way they are able to maintain a family

If statistically better educated areas are actually becoming more Catholic, I have serious doubts in the quality of that education. Also: every atheist becomes one because of logic. There are no powerful outside pressures to become atheist or threats that if you don't you'll be an outcast or burn for eternity. If atheism was purely a matter of nature and not nurture, we'd see the number of atheists holding steady across time and cultures, which it isn't.

How do you know anything about the number of atheists in past times? There are plenty of Latin texts, for instance, where the existence of the gods are questioned. There are plenty of Jews, Catholics, etc. who identify with the religion but are actually atheist. And there have always been.

I stand by my claim that no atheists are so because of logic. Why? Because you will never convince someone who truly believes in God to become an atheist, with any argument you might use. Ultimately if you don't believe in God, it's because you don't feel the presence of God.

Most fundamental questions of life can't be proved or disproved. You cannot prove that the world didn't come into existence this morning with all memories and live forms pre-programmed. And yet I am sure you believe it, even though how do you know you can trust your senses? You don't. But one cannot go through life without having beliefs about anything. Atheists (and theists for that matter) are delusional if they think that the basis for their beliefs is "proof."

It's good to be eternally in 1970. 25 million Americans are Catholics who have left the Church in the USA while 15 million ex-Protestants and ex-atheists are now Catholics.

Than back to Italy, Spain and Portugal.. These Catholic countries are developed yet the policies of the IMF are causing them to go backward. With the depreciation of wages and appreciation of prices, Italian and Spanish women will have less and less money to do contraception. Italy and Spain will gain population, the number of Catholics will increase in Europe. Within 20 years of course. Poland will delegalise birth control, which leading Polish legal scholar Professor Andrzej Zoll calls for. The population of Catholics in Europe will ultimately increase. Central Europe has gone through 20 years of shock therapy, our national resources were destroyed but we'll start reproducing again.

Thanks be to God, the Dutch and English are closing their shops for us, may God give us many good Englishmen and Dutch who close their shops for us. Glory be to God, may the Lord bless every Englishman and Dutchman who curses on a Polish man.