i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

Please don't spread misinformation. You don't know what Grant personally believes and most of what you wrote sounds like either exaggeration or outright lies.

I actually googled because I became curious when I read that statement. Found this series of tweets:

“I don’t like family play, I play 1-2 sims.” “Most people play 1-2 sims.” That suggests that most simmers aren’t into family play to say the least.

None of that equals: "that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only." Not Even Close.

He said what his playstyle is, and in a different tweet threw out some statistics. By the way, 2 sims can still be a family.

Just sharing what I could find. I don’t know if he ever said anything along those lines. The statement most simmers play 1-2 sims surprises me. Has it always been like that? Or is it just Sims 4? I’ve followed quite a few stories and legacies in the past and most families people played counted more than 1-2 sims. Actually it almost always came down to building a family.

Yeah, I don't know. I think we'd all be suprised if we knew the actual statistics for the game. Some simmers still play offline, though, so their gameplay wouldn't be tracked.

I wouldn't be shocked if most simmers play with only a few sims because more than that can be challenging. And stressful. Also, there are probably lots of casual players who maybe don't get too deep into gameplay. Make one sim and just start playing.

Maybe it’s true, the pie thing ( @Dakota88 ), maybe we are the exception. I actually love playing 1 or 2 sims by the way, both in 3 and 4.

I played one or two Sims in 1 and 2. But after years of experience in both games I started to play much larger households. Not because it's right or wrong but I knew all the ends or outs of those games (never even heard of TS1 cheats until it was over, lol) by the time they ended. The first few years they were hard, but once you know if you don't put a smoke alarm in a house, someone will die, then everything like that becomes easier and less of a suprise, and why I needed to branch out into more gameplay such as family play in TS2. But yeah, for years in TS1 I played rotationally but only a few Sims in a household, that game was so hard to keep up and get money to keep them alive, more than a few was a huge challenge. TS2 it was easier but not all that easy. But after years of knowing what could or wouldn't happen (but it still suprises some hidden nugget) more Sim brought more of a challenge to care for them, and or ruin them. Those days were fun.
TS3 because of the open world and all the notices and chances and time continuing I didn't play more than four. That was a lot of work, even for someone who likes a huge challenge. And in TS4 it's a breeze to play eight Sims (because nothing is going to happen to them, ever) but more of a challenge in 2 and 3 to try that for months. Someone can possibly die and that is the challenge to experience all things in the game without messing up and killing one, or maybe going ahead and hands off, see if they survive my plans.
But I don't play like they meant for me to play, I'm not going to fill a lot of aspirations for any of them. They dance to what I play and it's never how the devs meant for us to play.

"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

@Simanite .
It is all about the money. All companies watch the demographics (which I would think includes what goes on n this site), and make there decisions based on the demographics. Sometimes we get the cool breeze, and sometimes we get the skunk fart.

I'm a family player myself, and I have multiple family legacies going and watching each new generation grow is where a lot of the fun in the game is for me. I'm that player who has huge family weddings and throws birthdays, lol.

Because Sims 2 added the who growing up and aging it stands out because it did it first. But after Generations with Sims 3, coupled with Ambitions, Sims 3 is my favorite for family gameplay hands down. Each life stage felt important and unique. My teens going to prom, learning to drive, thinking about the future, what about college?

For me this was the fun, the storytelling I enjoy in the game, and it's why Parenthood is my favorite pack right now. I won't say I am actually the majority, in truth I doubt it. But oh man, what I wouldn't give to have another extensive pack/expansion dedicated to generations and such.

I imagine the gameplay of TS4 is perfect if you're a tween/teen who aspires to be a young adult EA gamechanger.

So many activities or ideas seem to revolve around instagram, livestreaming, influencers, likes, etc. It might be modern, but it's pretty dull, especially when so much of it involves Sims spending time doing isolated things with their phones or computers or streaming stations. Even activities that don't involve technology are fairly isolated (from the most recent pack - go sailing! Alone. Lay out on your towel! Alone. Lounge on a chair in the sun! Alone).

My youngest is 14, when Sims 4 launched she was 9, and she still can't stand the game. She loved Sims 2 and Sims 3. She thinks Sims 4 is a knock off game. That it should have been a side game like Sims Stories. She much rather play Sims FreePlay, because they actually have more things to do and it's the closest thing of a real Sims game on a device.

Not all teens are obsessed with the "ME" lifestyle that our cultural is currently trying to push. They're not all into selfies, and instagram, making Vlogs on Youtube, or doing Tik Tok videos.

I just watched all of the TS2 trailers for its EPs and I noticed that they were advertising them with just normal everyday life features like:

"Your sim can have a roommate (in an apartment) or live alone"
"Go to the park with your pets"
"Build friendships over shared interests"
"Experience dating"
"Go on vacation to relax"
"Open up a small family business"
"Get the whole college experience"

- these are regular things people do. It's just plain regular. There was nothing fancy or exciting about the things you could do with your sims in TS2, it was simply normal stuff, the stuff people do every day, every week, every year. It's just normal everyday life. And every EP came with so many new features and things to do for your sims, I remember it took me weeks to try everything out and I just realized watching the trailers, there are some things I never even got to try because I was a kid back then and wasn't allowed to play all day.

In TS4 we have loads of fancy and exciting stuff to do, but we're missing the normal stuff and the EPs lack "stuff to do", it's more about the outside, how it all looks, it's about experiencing exciting things you wouldn't exprience in real life (become a famous youtuber, etc.) it's not so much about LIFE with TS4.

@Sindocat There are some nice things for kids and organising a family can be fun - I tried to show a different perspective on family play back in the early life of TS4 here - but the issue is that nothing new is being added for younger Sims/families and they are still lacking so many basic things with things like Get Famous and Strangerville being produced instead. And in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

Please don't spread misinformation. You don't know what Grant personally believes and most of what you wrote sounds like either exaggeration or outright lies.

I actually googled because I became curious when I read that statement. Found this series of tweets:

“I don’t like family play, I play 1-2 sims.” “Most people play 1-2 sims.” That suggests that most simmers aren’t into family play to say the least.

None of that equals: "that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only." Not Even Close.

He said what his playstyle is, and in a different tweet threw out some statistics. By the way, 2 sims can still be a family.

Just sharing what I could find. I don’t know if he ever said anything along those lines. The statement most simmers play 1-2 sims surprises me. Has it always been like that? Or is it just Sims 4? I’ve followed quite a few stories and legacies in the past and most families people played counted more than 1-2 sims. Actually it almost always came down to building a family.

I wonder how the counting is done. I have a million 1-2 Sim households in my game, but the household I spend the most time playing (more than all the other households combined) is 5 Sims and a dog, and at one point had Grandpa staying there too, for a total of 7 slots.

i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

Please don't spread misinformation. You don't know what Grant personally believes and most of what you wrote sounds like either exaggeration or outright lies.

I actually googled because I became curious when I read that statement. Found this series of tweets:

“I don’t like family play, I play 1-2 sims.” “Most people play 1-2 sims.” That suggests that most simmers aren’t into family play to say the least.

None of that equals: "that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only." Not Even Close.

He said what his playstyle is, and in a different tweet threw out some statistics. By the way, 2 sims can still be a family.

Just sharing what I could find. I don’t know if he ever said anything along those lines. The statement most simmers play 1-2 sims surprises me. Has it always been like that? Or is it just Sims 4? I’ve followed quite a few stories and legacies in the past and most families people played counted more than 1-2 sims. Actually it almost always came down to building a family.

I wonder how the counting is done. I have a million 1-2 Sim households in my game, but the household I spend the most time playing (more than all the other households combined) is 5 Sims and a dog, and at one point had Grandpa staying there too, for a total of 7 slots.

Yes, I like variety myself. Sometimes I play one, sometimes three, sometimes eight (and eveything in between). The household with the dog and grandpa sounds like a lot of fun.

I miss so many things when I play with families!
The fact that it took years for them to release toddler is really telling already. For some reason their numbers and tell them players are not interested in family play and life stages that aren't Young Adult.
But of course if they go by the numbers now they will see that this is actually true, but not because we don't like playing with them but because we don't have much to do with them at all.
It's like when they said they stopped adding secret lots because people didn't visit them. Maybe if there was something fun to do in them...

They say people are not interested in a family play pack but all they add is single Sim play and careers how in the world do they expect us to do something when that play style is always ignored. Like Island Living I wanted to have my Sims ride together on the jet ski but it was made for a single Sim its rare to get animations for our Sims to actually interact with each other and people want to do new stuff their algorithms are trash.

Sims 4 went from "You Rule" to "One of the stories we want you to tell"

Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.

I think that's true - TS4 is sadly mirroring what real life is like. A generation of selfish, lazy, technology-addicted social justice warriors who have no grasp of the real life and when they want something *click* they expect to get it.

That might be the CA bubble they live in but it's not everywhere. I think it's funny TS4 tried to depict life from a bubble point of view. People still get the paper here, we still don't have wifi everywhere, not all people here even want or know what wifi is, nor will they ever care, they still work for a living (physical labor) with their hands and backs, we still like fast cars and sport cars, we still get off our butts and drive or walk to a store, we don't phone in or click for grocery delivery. We still have mom and pop shops like hardware stores that may cost a little more, but it's closer than a mega mall, and we all aren't looking to get likes and money from Youtube and get famous on Twitter or Youtube. Real people still exist but if you listen to everyone else you would think we all disappeared, but we haven't. ETA: And as far as that drone in Get Famous for celebs, if that thing flies over anyone's house you can guess what would happen to it. No, not everyone lives in the techno world bubble. And we aren't handing one year old babies an iphone so they too can become borg. And it may be a reflection of the times about selfies but been there done it with a really old Kodak a hundred of years ago, so no, this generation didn't invent selfies, either. But what we aren't doing is going on vacation just so we can post a selfie on FB. TS4 doesn't reflect real life but a bubble.

Um, no one has said that everywhere is like that - but a majority of the western world IS like that. It isn't just California - I live in the UK and it's like that in every big city.

So it is liberal/progressive "the big city" bubble then? The devs are all living in California, so that is why I call it the California bubble. California is known as the liberal/progressive toilet to many that I know. As such, there is so much things they are missing in-game. My area of the US is not even represented in the game.

Neither is mine, I think its funny that they say that they are so diverse ,but obviousely not diverse in other ways in life.I hopee e do gt a farmer country or a midwest style world. But I wpn't hold my breath

I am on my second generation of family raising (my founders' oldest child has a toddler, now, their second youngest is a teen, the youngest is a child) and there is a lot to do with all of those stages.

Infants don't do a lot, it's true. But they do require care, which with Parenthood does raise the Parenting skill. I didn't play TS2, but TS3's burrito-babies weren't any more engaging.

My parents have individual parenting styles, and my children all develop distinct personalities. Family members in non-active households frequently come to visit, or call asking my Sims to visit. Family members in active households seek each other out for interactions autonomously, and steadily roll whims regarding their family.

The founders in the family dynasty I am playing in TS4 are recreations of my first couple in TS3, who never decided to have a family, in that game. In this version, they finally shared the wish at the same time. I am glad they waited. I am finding that continuing their story as a more mature couple, with family aspirations, is much more satisfying than the family play I did in TS3.

I scanned this topic initially because "family friendly" is sometimes a dog-whistle for other agendas, which ended up not being the case in this thread. But I am legitimately puzzled by the idea that there isn't good integration of family play, because it's what I do, and I have really been enjoying it, even with the "sticky hands" glitch current for all my Gen 2 Toddlers.

What integral family togetherness play is there? This is an honest question. It feels like all the sims are roommates and not family members, as there is not many fun togetherness activities. There are MULTIPLE single sim activities. I only can assume that you are a millenial and don't get the concept of detailed family gameplay which I am looking to have. I am part of Gen X (entering my 4th decade IRL), right before millenials.

The gameplay is currently boring for those of us who play long legacies. I have one family I currently play which is on generation 6 (this file is on long lifespan). The gameplay currently caters to the YA, party lifestyle, with only playing 1 to 2 sims. I always play with 4 to 6 sims because otherwise I get bored even faster.

@Sindocat There are some nice things for kids and organising a family can be fun - I tried to show a different perspective on family play back in the early life of TS4 here - but the issue is that nothing new is being added for younger Sims/families and they are still lacking so many basic things with things like Get Famous and Strangerville being produced instead. And in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

Gay families can make for good gameplay -- I've played couples who adopted children, and shortly after Seasons release I had a Sim who had twins with Father Winter, then married her high school best friend and the two of them had a toddler from scientific experiment (aka took them into CAS and created a toddler with both of them as parents).

I have no issues with promoting LGBT Sims because there's still a lot of homophobia out there and a lot of people need that boost to feel part of society.

And EA can't please everyone -- I've seen threads like this complaining that there's too much family play and not enough for single Sims. It's hard to find that balance. I've enjoyed both playing with single Sims and with families, especially since 2017 with the addition of toddlers and the Parenthood game pack.

...in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

Oh, dear.

This is exactly what I was afraid this thread would be when I clicked it.

Without mods, gay couples have been adopting and raising kids since TS2.

With mods, my gay couples have been raising biological offspring since TS3.

Without mods, in TS4, I am finally able to have bio kids with my original (remade) Sims couple, and they are building a legacy.

Family play is supported. It has options in TS4 that it never has had before. I imagine an education expansion will happen at some point, that will broaden options further. And any game content can enhance family play, if you let it. Laundry Day? More chores! Or what have you.

Also, I will say this once:

Gay people have families. Married couples are families. Maxis agrees. If you disagree, this game may disappoint you.

Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.

That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
My perfect Sims game btw would have:

baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)

toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

...in their promotion they are completely ignoring families because all they want to promote is gay couples and single Sims.

Oh, dear.

This is exactly what I was afraid this thread would be when I clicked it.

Without mods, gay couples have been adopting and raising kids since TS2.

With mods, my gay couples have been raising biological offspring since TS3.

Without mods, in TS4, I am finally able to have bio kids with my original (remade) Sims couple, and they are building a legacy.

Family play is supported. It has options in TS4 that it never has had before. I imagine an education expansion will happen at some point, that will broaden options further. And any game content can enhance family play, if you let it. Laundry Day? More chores! Or what have you.

Also, I will say this once:

Gay people have families. Married couples are families. Maxis agrees. If you disagree, this game may disappoint you.

Gay couples in Sims 3 can have biological offspring without mods, this is not new for Sims 4. I also disagree this feature covers “family play”. It just covers genetics. And yes, gay families have families, but irl not exactly the way they can in the game. I’m glad for those who want it that it is possible in the game (it’s not about reality and genetics are important for many players), but I’ve always provided offspring for gay couples in my game the way real life gay people do that. It definitely can be biological, but a third party is needed, one way or the other.

Sims 4 follows every trend going- I don’t think that’s up for dispute.

I agree family play is still missing a lot. It has improved but family relationships still feel empty in many ways. Sims 2 definitely had it better.

It's definitely improved over the years. The Toddler patch in 2017 was a major step, and they might be the best toddlers in the Sims series. They do need some help but not so much that you feel like your Sim has no time for anything else, and as they develop they can do more things for themselves. And children can interact with them a lot more than in past games -- I had one family where the toddler woke up with a nightmare, and instead of waking her parents she woke her older brother who was able to comfort her and help her back to bed.

Some of the DLC helps fill out the stages -- Kids' Room gives more activities for them (I really like the puppet theater for helping build Social skill as well as entertaining younger siblings), Seasons has Scouting which is technically a rabbit hole but you still have to actively go out and earn the badges by doing various activities. Even the much maligned MFPS has an interaction where children can study the caged rodent and that counts as the day's school homework. But more could be done; I've used Spa Day to get my elders into yoga and meditation, but we could use more hobbies to keep them active. Adults need more love and a way to distinguish them from YAs. And teens could use more content so they don't feel like mini-adults.

That may be convenient, it’s also not simulating life. Toddlers depend on you and when you have small children, there is little time for anything else. I love the toddlers in Sims 4 but them being so self-reliant for me is a downside. Why does everything in this game have to be so easy and why is easy confused with better?
My perfect Sims game btw would have:

baby: covering the Sims 2 baby stage, becoming a Sims 2/3-toddler before they can walk (like it is in Freeplay)

toddler: a five year old that is a bit more self-reliant (but not completely)

Because for some reason many people prefer the simplicity of the game. I agree, toddlers are a little too independent. As long as there is food in the fridge and they have toys they don’t actually need an adult other than for bathing.

I am not reading through 7 pages because I don't have tune. I am a family player and I love sims 4 families. I enjoy playing them far more than earlier versions because I like the personalities more. But I think the animations were better in earlier versions and relationships should be reworked so kids know their grandparents etc.

Free babies and better animations and more after school activities would be great for me. As for the electronics thing I don't notice it much, because I don't give my Sims has many electronics and I micromanage everything they do so they don't get a chance to use them haha. We never have a TV, tablet Etc. There's usually one computer locked in one room for writer sims. and my kids and teens keep getting grounded from their phones so they can't use those much either LOL!

I do like many of the items we have now for toddlers and children. I don't have many packs yet, but still enjoy my families.

Of course, I always want more. The two things I think I want most are better babies and more group activities for all ages. I have played Freeplay for years, and I would love to see Sims 4 make the baby stage more like that game.

We do have very few group activities for families. In my game there is tv, the llama game, and the buildem block set. It might be better with more expansion packs. I do want to get more, but I would especially be interested in one that expanded on family activities.

i remember SimGuruGrant tweeting that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only. he also refused to update the babies when Lyndsay Pearson asked him to do so. he personally believes there's no immersion in playing with families and that directly affects the output of the game. so that explains it.

it's Grant Rodiek decision why we are left asking for more family interactions.

a family-oriented expansion pack, aka Generations could have been better than Get Famous..

most of us obviously need more family oriented game play, a full expansion pack dedicated to that aspect i supposed. but no, they be releasing full expansion packs like get famous to cater more on rich instagram girls with rich daddies and stuff who are willing to throw their money at EA no matter how bad the pack is.

Please don't spread misinformation. You don't know what Grant personally believes and most of what you wrote sounds like either exaggeration or outright lies.

I actually googled because I became curious when I read that statement. Found this series of tweets:

“I don’t like family play, I play 1-2 sims.” “Most people play 1-2 sims.” That suggests that most simmers aren’t into family play to say the least.

None of that equals: "that family-gameplay doesnt really appeal to most players so they decided to release Parenthood as a game pack only." Not Even Close.

He said what his playstyle is, and in a different tweet threw out some statistics. By the way, 2 sims can still be a family.

Just sharing what I could find. I don’t know if he ever said anything along those lines. The statement most simmers play 1-2 sims surprises me. Has it always been like that? Or is it just Sims 4? I’ve followed quite a few stories and legacies in the past and most families people played counted more than 1-2 sims. Actually it almost always came down to building a family.

I wonder how the counting is done. I have a million 1-2 Sim households in my game, but the household I spend the most time playing (more than all the other households combined) is 5 Sims and a dog, and at one point had Grandpa staying there too, for a total of 7 slots.

Yes, I like variety myself. Sometimes I play one, sometimes three, sometimes eight (and eveything in between). The household with the dog and grandpa sounds like a lot of fun.