I agree with you, though I see that young people without good financial means are "forced" to buy pirates copies, not only in magic but in music, movies and so on..O maybe you never downloaded anything from internet?

If one cannot afford, one should not have. If one sets out to acheive a goal, one values the knowledge more. In our business knowledge is power, the secret has to stay a secret!

I studied and traded my services as a web designer about 3 years ago with a magician I met at a ren fair. Having PURCHASED and downloaded the ellusionist series, I was awkward at best with magic. This "mentor" taught me the basics and I helped him any way I could. I was in essence his apprentice. This is how a "Young" person gains the knowledge without becoming Captain Ahab!

Originally posted by crazymentalist: I agree with you, though I see that young people without good financial means are "forced" to buy pirates copies, not only in magic but in music, movies and so on..O maybe you never downloaded anything from internet?

A problem without solution!!

My opinion!!

From FordForced, what nonsense forced. If I need to drive a Porsche , and can't afford one because I'm old and on a fixed income. Do I then have the right to steal one?And the argument every one does it is crap. I shop lifted as a kid, got caught and did two years probation. I haven't stolen since. Because when I became a responsible adult. I realised theft was wrong

1) When did magic become a Donahue episode where things are "all about the children?" I couldn't afford more than one or two books a year when I was a kid, and I turned out pretty ok. If someone were truly looking out for the youth, they might try to encourage them to invest in one or two GREAT texts and really sink their teeth into them. I saved 6 months to buy a copy of The Great Illusions of Magic at $75 and I know I read it at least 20 times. Its not the money that's the issue, it's the investment and the VALUING of that investment.

2)Who is the magic world "forces" anyone to buy anything? Doesn't seem as if that is a matter of opinion. You either are forced, or are not. I would like to see some information backing up this claim.

3) You have no idea what the word "opinion" means. Nothing in your post is an opinion. You make a claim and offer no substantiation. Further the actions resulting for your opinion are illegal.

"Your honor, it is my opinion that this man should be dead, so I killed him."

Judge: "OHHH! since that was your opinion, then the crime is forgivable."

Are you sure you have the intellect to have even read the books you are pirating?

When I was a kid, my local library had some pretty good magic-related books (Amateur Magician's Handbook, Scarne's autobiography, Classic Secrets of Magic among them). Obviously most libraries can't afford to have large magic sections, but having a few classic books makes a big difference.

Originally posted by crazymentalist: I agree with you, though I see that young people without good financial means are "forced" to buy pirates copies, not only in magic but in music, movies and so on..O maybe you never downloaded anything from internet?

A problem without solution!!

My opinion!!

Greetings,

I am not one to post very often on magic forums, but this topic is simply too important to ignore.

I talk quite a bit about the topic of on-line magic in my upcoming book (and at my lectures). As we all know, the internet is a great tool--but when it comes to tools, a sharp instrument can be used to perform life-saving surgery, or to commit murder.

When it comes to most on-line magic, very often I find myself saying:"The internet has changed the face of magic--it has made it frown."

Simply put, no one is ever "forced" to steal magic books (or anything else), so please do not try to justify thievery with bad logic and juvenile excuses. There is NEVER a reason to make, sell, or PURCHASE illegal copies.

Just as an added point, this thievery goes on all the time particularly in the magic community.I know of a local magic "bigshot" (not to mention any names but he is a regional vice president for a large International magic organization)who operates a magicshop from his home and reproduces commercially available effects on his own and then releases them as THE commercial effects. in other words he takes the originator's ideas, copies them as well as their packaging and then sells them as new from the originator. THIEF. I beleive that he also does this and sells some under names of his own (but that "rumour" has not been substantiated YET).

Then, A few years ago I was lecturing for the local club in Calgary and as the business meeting was winding down I overheard several members talking about a magic video and one openly asked "would you make me a copy please" and they relied in the affirmative. I mention these examples now for several reasons.

#1 - I know for a fact that at least one of them openly reads this forum

#2 - If anyone reading this thread has even the least bit of decency and if they have ANY copied material be it lecture notes, books or videos, then PLEASE go get your cheque book, write a cheque for the full amount and send it to the rightful owner of the material for your COPY. Do the right thing people. Report fraud to the people that matter and STOP taking part of it yourselves and more importantly stop turning a blind eye towards it. SPEAK OUT about it when you know it is taking place.

If the RIAA cannot close down mp3 trading, if the movie one (MPAA or somethign) cannot close down people downloading movies and if the software companies cannot close down people trading pirate versions of applications, then a bunch (not sure if that is the collective noun) of magicians really can't do much either.

Maybe we could sue some 14 year olds that downloaded Penguin mpgs from Kazaa?

Seriously, piracy has always occured and will always occur. Let them get on with it.

I am not condoning piracy, not arguing FOR it as a good thing in anyway at all. Just pointing out it is relentless and cannot be stopped. As soon as Sony bring out an antipiracy method it is cracked. See this week's fun with DVD Jon and iTunes for proof.

Take the energy and bitter hate you feel towards the pirates and use it for something positive.

Originally posted by mrgoat: ...Take the energy and bitter hate you feel toward the pirates and use it for something positive...

I'll second that suggestion and ask that we pass the motion.

Sure we COULD spend time focusing on the behavior of those addicted to stuff,though until we address the basic underpinnings of our craft and our niche market, the war stories and hand washing will be ineffectual.

I'm pleased to see some of our classic literature made available in electronic format at www.lybrary.com, a place where a hundred dollars can buy you a significant amount of magical knowledge. I'm also pleased to see RK reprinting some of K&G's works including CoinMagic, and some time ago, Greater Magic.

Will there be an underground where PDFs of books , AVIs or MPGs of videos are distributed. Yes, of course. It just used to be slower and involved physical copies. Now a good scanner and PC can copy a book to PDF without the fuss that a photocopier used to require.

From what I've seen, most folks who stay in the craft seem to have libraries of originals. Perhaps the larger demand is seeking its own supply? I strongly suspect there are market agenda issues regarding pricing, secrets, availability and political prestige involved that COULD be influencing people to seek copy-wronged documents (from print or video).

What to do? For most of us, just move on with our work and studies. For some of us, perhaps discussions about how to publish across tiers of the market to make the products available.

As a person who makes substantial money from royalties derived from music and books about music, I actively seek legal relief from this scum.

And, to mrgoat, I do not do illegal downloads. Why should I? I can afford to purchase legitimate copies of everything I want.

Since this place is selling/trading illegal copies, and very few people know anything about it, I think it is safe to assume that the person who operates the blogspot is the same one who made the initial post in the thread.

I'll compare the list to similar lists of illicit material and see if we can use one to track down the other.

In other words, if you steal from me and/or my friends, watch out. I'll get your a$$!

Addendum:This blog seems to have disappeared, as if by magic. Perhaps the author is a fellow who has caused several of us grief in another context.

I think taking the road in the middle is the best solution. On one hand we should do something about the illegal copying. For example, in the last three months I shut down two who sold illegal copies of Lybrary.com ebooks on ebay. This thread caused a website being removed. All of these are positive developments. At one point, I am sure, we will see prosecution of some of the bolder crooks.

Yes, new ones will spring up, but we will shut them down or make their efforts not worthwhile. If our community is active, communicates and leads by example, we can make a difference.

On the other hand, I am also not spending all my time on worrying about thieves. The vast majority of magicians is honest and willing to pay a fair price. At least, that has kept Lybrary.com in operation.