Adama wrote:By the way, if Winston wanted to put that on the first page for everyone to see, it would be good, because it is true. Going abroad is good, mostly just for getting laid with lots of different women. Tell me that is not the aim of most men going overseas to live for good. They want to look for wives, but only while they are having sex with as many women as they can get their hands on. Part of me doesnt blame them. But you can't say expatriation for most men is about finding a wife. It is about sex. And lots of it.

That is the uncomfortable truth. Most people on this forum appear to be sex tourists. There are a few decent, driven men who actually want to find love and build up a life for themselves, but lust and a need to be validated drives the vast majority. This is a truth so uncomfortable and inconvenient, people would rather not hear it.

For most people on this site, HappierAbroad is not about finding love or a wife. It is not something they do as a return to traditionalism, it is not something they do to strike a blow at feminism. Their beef with feminism is not that feminism kills the family unit, or that it promotes boundless promiscuity, infidelity as "empowering", creates an anti-male rhetoric... this does not matter to them as much as they claim. Their beef with feminism is "feminism promotes promiscuity and bitches STILL won't suck my cock!"

Sometimes men hop on what is undeniably a good cause, but are less then sincere about what they're actually after... whether it be whoremongering, going from bar girl to bar girl, or marrying a glorified nurse with no intention of providing her with a traditional life... these are men doing the bidding of feminism. They are furthering it's sterile agenda of living a life filled with nothing but cheap thrills and dying alone and miserable at the end of it, having given all of their best years to pointless hedonism.

And sure, if this is what they want, fine by me. Whatever brings a man joy. But let us not delude ourselves and pretend this is not exactly what feminism wants, at the end of the day. The forces behind both feminism and MGTOW want the same thing: for a society to focus solely on the individual, in order reduce the population. Money and time should be spent on oneself and wanting a stable life, genuine love, a family... is heresy. Everything old-fashioned, traditional, religious, is heresy. All you are allowed to worship is Mammon.

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree. You hit every nail exactly on the head.

All that, then they pretend it is about the law. No the law is just used to scare you. It is a trap, but it is also there to show men they better not dare reproduce. These men walk right into that trap. They're so concerned about male suicides from divorce, but what about lack of male reproduction? Isnt that also killing yourself, by not producing any children? These men want to avoid children, because they are afraid they'll have to pay for them one day, seriously. That is how much they would rather hold onto money than dare risk having sons and daughters of their own. They are that dumb to buy into that nonsense. Well some of them are. Sorry guys.

Besides that, none of these guys would have become aware of the law had it not been for intense rejection AND the existence of the internet, which made them widely known in the movement.

You even have the MGTOW on this forum who outright states he moved to Japan because the Austrian women did not want him, but he says he signs on everyday for what again? Oh yeah, because of the law. Right. I believe that.

Adama wrote:That's why you who are children of the world listen to me and think I'm nuts, when I've got more sanity in my pinky than you may ever possess yourself (from Jesus Christ who is the light of life).

Adama wrote:
Am I the negative one? I am the one telling you that things are not as bad as MGTOW claim.

Might be, but I think, better safe than sorry. What's wrong with being risk-averse?
And what about yourself? It seems you are neither married nor have children in USA.

Does me pointing out the existence of Hell make me negative?

It does not make you negative, but rather comical I think.

Why don't you just ignore me?

Why should he? It is you, who is writing comments in a public forum known for its VERY lenient moderation and commitment to free speech and other members reply to your comments. - Why should only readers reply who agree with you? Why should readers, who do not agree with you be censored or should feel any obligation to self-censorship?

If you do not want to read replies which do not fit your religious belief or your feminist party line, you should post your comments in religious/peo-feminist forums, which all are strongly against critics and free speech and where moderators remove anything they do not want to see immediately and ban the poster.

I just think you need to believe Jesus Christ and His Word before you die, in order to save you from the actual reality of hell. Should I just not say anything to you about it, even though I have sympathy for non-believers?

Well, you might talk about Jesus, free speech, who cares? But do not expect others to listen to your religious drivel.

Adama wrote:
Am I the negative one? I am the one telling you that things are not as bad as MGTOW claim.

Might be, but I think, better safe than sorry. What's wrong with being risk-averse?
And what about yourself? It seems you are neither married nor have children in USA.

Does me pointing out the existence of Hell make me negative?

It does not make you negative, but rather comical I think.

Why don't you just ignore me?

Why should he? It is you, who is writing comments in a public forum known for its VERY lenient moderation and commitment to free speech and other members reply to your comments. - Why should only readers reply who agree with you? Why should readers, who do not agree with you be censored or should feel any obligation to self-censorship?

If you do not want to read replies which do not fit your religious belief or your feminist party line, you should post your comments in religious/peo-feminist forums, which all are strongly against critics and free speech and where moderators remove anything they do not want to see immediately and ban the poster.

I just think you need to believe Jesus Christ and His Word before you die, in order to save you from the actual reality of hell. Should I just not say anything to you about it, even though I have sympathy for non-believers?

Well, you might talk about Jesus, free speech, who cares? But do not expect others to listen to your religious drivel.

Adama wrote:That's why you who are children of the world listen to me and think I'm nuts, when I've got more sanity in my pinky than you may ever possess yourself (from Jesus Christ who is the light of life).

Adama wrote:That's why you who are children of the world listen to me and think I'm nuts, when I've got more sanity in my pinky than you may ever possess yourself (from Jesus Christ who is the light of life).

You're sane? Opposite Day is Wednesday.

Obviously a case of megalomania, considering himself to be enlightened as a messenger from Jesus, he saw him just a few minutes ago when ordering a BigMac in the McDonalds shop at the next corner. LOL

Adama wrote:That's why you who are children of the world listen to me and think I'm nuts, when I've got more sanity in my pinky than you may ever possess yourself (from Jesus Christ who is the light of life).

You're sane? Opposite Day is Wednesday.

Obviously a case of megalomania, considering himself to be enlightened as a messenger from Jesus, he saw him just a few minutes ago when ordering a BigMac in the McDonalds shop at the next corner. LOL

Adama wrote:That's why you who are children of the world listen to me and think I'm nuts, when I've got more sanity in my pinky than you may ever possess yourself (from Jesus Christ who is the light of life).

You're sane? Opposite Day is Wednesday.

Obviously a case of megalomania, considering himself to be enlightened as a messenger from Jesus, he saw him just a few minutes ago when ordering a BigMac in the McDonalds shop at the next corner. LOL

MGTOW is just an Ideological Copy of Feminism, that is in some ways Worse than the thing it claims to hate so much. I will list a few reasons below.

V
V

MGTOW=Feminism #1: Rejection of Family (If you get married or have Children with a woman, EVEN if she is the sweetest, most feminine, man-loving woman on the planet, you are immediately attacked and ostracized from the cult-like herd because you are "Serving" a Woman...Feminism attacks women who get married to masculine, leader-like, loving men and have children with them, and are branded the enemy and ostracized from the cult-like herd because you are serving a Man. Sound familiar or similar?)

MGTOW=Feminism #2: Opposite Gender is Inherently Evil (MGTOW says Women are inherently evil, regardless of what Ethnicity or Nationality they are, NO exceptions. Feminism says Men are inherently evil, regardless of what Ethnicity or Nationality they are, UNLESS they come out and tout the party line of "Women are oppressed by my gender, I must fight for them!", then you are just a puppet to be used for the agenda. Sound familiar or similar?)

MGTOW=Feminism #3: Independence preaching (MGTOW says you must achieve Total independence from Women and Never need them for Anything, even the NATURAL desire to have Children. Feminism says you must achieve Total independence from Men and Never need them for Anything, even the NATURAL desire to have Children, unless the Children tout the party line and can be used as a financial weapon against the Man in the inevitable Divorce of "I'm bored with this, I filed for divorce" which comes ALOT from American women who are bored with a nice stable life with a nice loving man. Sound familiar or similar?)
I even saw an example of this on ID (Investigation Discovery) on a show called Fatal Vows, portraying an American couple, where a nice, loving, family-oriented Introverted man eventually got married to a "Fun"-loving, Extroverted woman with a previous mentally unstable background and Already had two children before even Meeting him, I believe. She eventually got bored of her man, got divorced, used the children as a weapon, et cetera...and when he Finally got the kids Full Custody from her, she set him up to be Killed. How did this start? Why was this man's life taken, what were the roots? She was "Bored" in her marriage, he was not "Fun enough", That was the catalyst.

MGTOWers seem to ignore the fact that, with a Patriarchal, Traditionally-minded, Nuclear family unit (Man as the head, Woman being subservient to the Man, children being subservient to Both, with a moral framework stemming from Traditional values), whatever way varying societies and cultures implemented it through out our species' lifespan, societies FLOURISHED, the Human species continued onward... jump to 1970s-present day, with Feminism from Women, and MGTOW from Men...the Traditional, Patriarchal, Nuclear family unit is no longer in abundance in the West, if even At All, and everything is falling apart. With MGTOW, they make Pro-Patriarchy videos, but they simultaneously tout the line of "Completely ignore women", regardless of said women being Foreign, or American (Anglo). What Patriarchy would these MGTOWers want, a Patriarchy where women, even GOOD ones who are looking to have children with a dominant yet loving man, are ignored and ostracized on impulse of "Oppressing me by serving a woman by taking care of her and her kids which I helped create"? How can this be possible? We have seen from Feminism, that a society with Women ignoring and attacking men, even GOOD ones who are looking to have Children and a nice stable family life are ignored and ostracized on Impulse of "Having to serve a man and stay home to take care of children? Oppression!", is a system that is DOOMED to FAIL, so how can the gender Opposite be ANY different? It's NOT.

These are just the main reasonings that why I see MGTOW as being no more but a Copy of Feminism for the weakest swimmers in the Male gene pool who are ready to ostracize ALL women after a couple bad relationships with Murican women, and not even Bothering to look abroad, where the women, even online, are MUCH friendlier and willing to speak to a man, MUCH more traditional, et cetera. It is pathetic, in my honest opinion..a defeatist, Nihilist ideology which says "To hell with Women, do what YOU want to do", which is a echo of Feminism's "To hell with Men, do what YOU want to do". And what I have read from this thread, It has been further cemented that this "Movement" of MGTOW is doomed to fail, hopefully in a much quieter way, as at least These MGTOWers are not reproducing and dying out old, alone and miserable, in Stark Contrast to Feminists, who ARE reproducing but are spawning more foot soldiers to tout and aggressively implement the Feminist party lines and demands by Force.

I also oppose MRA/MRM and PUAs, but that's a whole other nest of Vipers altogether. For another time, or even Here, if any would indulge me in my opposition to Those movements.

Vendri wrote:MGTOW is just an Ideological Copy of Feminism
.....
I also oppose MRA/MRM and PUAs, but that's a whole other nest of Vipers altogether. For another time, or even Here, if any would indulge me in my opposition to Those movements.

If you oppose MGTOW, MRA and even PUA, I wonder what do you NOT oppose?

1 -
MGTOW are financially independent.

Feminism and MGTOW - there is a very big difference, especially financially. Feminists are not able to survive without sources from outside giving them constantly money.

I also do not know anything about MGTOWs who are trying to take money away from feminists, from public funds or filing lawsuits against companies claiming 'discrimination'.

On the other side feminists are not ashamed to extort money mainly from ex-husbands and ex-boyfriends by claiming 'alimony' 'palimony' and child support even if this man is NOT the biological father.

2 -
Feminism is openly promoting publications of highly revered feminists calling for genocide of all men (Valerie Solanas) and are claiming all sexual contact between a man and a woman should be considered as rape (Adrea Dworkin).

I do not know anything about MGTOW supporting such violent publications against women. If you know such literature, please let me know.

3 -
Rejection of Family - this is a feminist idea from Linda Hirshman, urging married women to file for divorce and to leave their husband and sons.

I never heard something like that from any person who identifies himself as MGTOW urging husbands to leave behind their wives and their children - MRAs are doing exactly the opposite, they fight for their visitation rights.

4 -Women are oppressed by my gender - this is not true. MGTOW say, that FEMINISM is creating a society considering men as 2nd class people.

5 -The weakest swimmers in the Male gene pool are not MGTOW, but male feminists. They end badly, and even female feminists do not trust them and dump them. Check out the stories of prominent male feminists and what happened to them.

6 -At least these MGTOWers are not reproducing and dying out old, alone and miserable, in Stark Contrast to Feminists, who ARE reproducing.

I am sorry to disappoint you, I am MGTOW since many years, I am married and I have children, (and also one foster daughter) - just to add, unlike lesbian feminist couples, I did it myself with my wife together and without using any sperm-bank.

Many MGTOW I know personally have children, but are not interested after divorce to try it again, either because of age or because of financial obligations - I am sure you are aware it is always the man who has to pay the bills after divorce.

7 -"To hell with Women, do what YOU want to do", which is a echo of Feminism's "To hell with Men, do what YOU want to do"

Somewhat sad to read this. You basically suggest that I should stop supporting my foster daughter in Philippines and not to pay for her education anymore because she is a female and I am MGTOW? Her university costs me now really a lot of money, so you think it is better for me to use this money for myself - as MGTOW are anyway doomed?

I have no intention to do so, but just for your information, many MGTOW are paying for their children, even for children who are not from them as fathers.

8 -
I also noticed you are rather misinformed about what makes men (and sometimes women too) MGTOW.
It's often NOT because of a sexual relationship between a man and a woman going wrong.

And anyway, what is wrong if a man decides to remain single? Can you explain me that?

"If you oppose MGTOW, MRA and even PUA, I wonder what do you NOT oppose?"

I am aligned with the Happier Abroad crowd and it's Ideals of Traditionalism and going abroad to find Happiness and the family people like Me desire. You know how in politics there is what is called a "Third-Position" or "Third Way"? I consider Going abroad and living Happily with a traditional wife and kids, and Not wasting time convincing men to Never give women a chance (MGTOW),Negotiating a nonexistent middle ground with Feminists (MRM/MRA/Gender Egalitarians), or "Banging" women left and right and not ever having a Meaningful relationship with them, be it Romantic or Platonic (PUA/Pick-up Artist) a Fourth-Position, a Fourth Way. I have been following this site in the shadows since 2013, and I appreciate most of what I see here, except for posts like This.

1 -
Feminism and MGTOW - there is a very big difference, especially financially. Feminists are not able to survive without sources from outside giving them constantly money.

I also do not know anything about MGTOWs who are trying to take money away from feminists, from public funds or filing lawsuits against companies claiming 'discrimination'.

On the other side feminists are not ashamed to extort money mainly from ex-husbands and ex-boyfriends by claiming 'alimony' 'palimony' and child support even if this man is NOT the biological father"

I am aware of this sir. That is why I mentioned how Feminists use children as weapons against the Husband, do not thnk I am unaware.

2 -Feminism is openly promoting publications of highly revered feminists calling for genocide of all men (Valerie Solanas) and are claiming all sexual contact between a man and a woman should be considered as rape (Adrea Dworkin)."

Julie Bindel is the latest example of this, I am aware. If savages like her are swaying women in Britain, then it further deters me from Ever going there to find a family, not that I ever wanted to go there to begin with.

3 -
"Rejection of Family - this is a feminist idea from Linda Hirshman, urging married women to file for divorce and to leave their husband and sons.

I never heard something like that from any person who identifies himself as MGTOW urging husbands to leave behind their wives and their children - MRAs are doing exactly the opposite, they fight for their visitation rights."

That is Not rejection of family, that I would consider Relinquishing of Family AKA giving up or Throwing Away your family. What I refer to is MGTOW convincing men to not even CONTEMPLATE accepting the task of creating a family (Reject): Just completely ignore the natural desires and mirror the sort of "I'm strong independent and need No man" rhetoric that Feminists throw out, except replace "Man" with "Woman". Relinquishment and Rejection are two different things, buddy, with Two different definitions. Feminists use a hybrid of both, and MGTOW uses straight-up REJECTION propaganda tactics of "Ignore All Women".

4 -
"Women are oppressed by my gender- this is not true. MGTOW say, that FEMINISM is creating a society considering men as 2nd class people"

This quote of "Women are oppressed by my gender" I apply to Male Feminists and others like them, not MGTOWs.

5 -
"The weakest swimmers in the Male gene pool are not MGTOW, but male feminists. They end badly, and even female feminists do not trust them and dump them. Check out the stories of prominent male feminists and what happened to them."

Which is why I said Male Feminists are puppets of the agenda: When they slip up or have no further use, they Rid themselves of them, like Trash. MGTOWs are puppets as well, by not reproducing and letting their time on the planet to go to waste.

6 -
At least these MGTOWers are not reproducing and dying out old, alone and miserable, in Stark Contrast to Feminists, who ARE reproducing
.

"I am sorry to disappoint you, I am MGTOW since many years, I am married and I have children, (and also one foster daughter) - just to add, unlike lesbian feminist couples, I did it myself with my wife together and without using any sperm-bank."

The Married-MGTOWer paradox... For a "Movement" that preaches Independence, Going your Own Way, and Not Needing Women, you do Not know what that means. As soon as you commit to having a Wife and Children, you stop "Going your Own Way" and at the point when the child is birthed, you walk alongside her, Hand in Hand, down the path (Way) of the Family. Not exactly going your "Own Way" after childbirth then, is it? At the point of putting that ring on her finger and kissing the bride, MGTOW is mute, most MGTOWs and their ringleaders accept this as Fact within MGTOW.

"Many MGTOW I know personally have children, but are not interested after divorce to try it again, either because of age or because of financial obligations - I am sure you are aware it is always the man who has to pay the bills after divorce."

Yes. And?

7 -
"To hell with Women, do what YOU want to do", which is a echo of Feminism's "To hell with Men, do what YOU want to do"

"Somewhat sad to read this. You basically suggest that I should stop supporting my foster daughter in Philippines and not to pay for her education anymore because she is a female and I am MGTOW? Her university costs me now really a lot of money, so you think it is better for me to use this money for myself - as MGTOW are anyway doomed?"

See, now you are trying to paint me as a misogynist because of your Cognitive Dissonance involving a contradictory set of ideals (MGTOW+Traditionalism, being Married with offspring) which do NOT go together. One preaches similar things Feminists do such as No Marriage, No Family, Independence reigns Supreme, et cetera, and the OTHER Embraces Marriage, Embraces Family and keeping the family afloat and Happy is Essential. This tactic of yours won't work.

"I have no intention to do so, but just for your information, many MGTOW are paying for their children, even for children who are not from them as fathers."

Not exactly GTOW, is it?

8 -
"I also noticed you are rather misinformed about what makes men (and sometimes women too) MGTOW.
It's often NOT because of a sexual relationship between a man and a woman going wrong."

Women MGTOWers? WHY would there be Women in a "Movement" which attacks from ALL angles, encourages ostracization of them
and sees Women as inherently Evil, a "Movement" with the abbreviation MGTOW (MEN Going Their Own Way)? Stop with the paradoxes, twisting words around and contradicting yourself, None of it is helping your attempt at a case.

"And anyway, what is wrong if a man decides to remain single? Can you explain me that?"

That should be up to the individual, and the individual ALONE. Why feel the need to propagate others to do the same thing, and potentially rob them of a nice life with a beautiful foreign lady? Just make the decision and move on with your life, don't propagate other men to follow your failed "Movement"'s lead down a cliff that, if ascending high enough into MGTOW. Is LEAVE society altogether.

Many people in this thread see MGTOW as incredibly flawed at the core, foolish and doomed, and I share this opinion wholeheartedly. I have not seen One coherent argument in FAVOR of MGTOW, except This:

Have an MGTOW attitude (Reject American women and Marriage with them) while in America, but after moving Abroad, Relinquish (see what I'm doing?) the MGTOW attitude and look for a Traditional married lifestyle, but even That is a double-edged sword, as you'd have to give up the horribly flawed ideals MGTOW has anyway.

It has No real foundation to stand on, even borrowing certain Feminist rhetoric, attitudes and ideals. Prove me, and many others, wrong. For example, RockingMrE, a Libertarian Youtuber, came out a long time ago and attacked it, calling MGTOW a Cult similar to Feminism in a lot of ways.

Vendri wrote:
The Married-MGTOWer paradox... For a "Movement" that preaches Independence, Going your Own Way, and Not Needing Women, you do Not know what that means. As soon as you commit to having a Wife and Children, you stop "Going your Own Way"

MGTOW is not against ALL women in general, and not against marriage, but it is against feminism.
If you think, MGTOW is against ALL women you read too many feminist websites and too few MGTOW-blogs.

"I have no intention to do so, but just for your information, many MGTOW are paying for their children, even for children who are not from them as fathers."
Not exactly GTOW, is it?

There is no reason for MGTOW to run away from their obligations regarding their children, more the opposite. MRAs are strongly fighting for their visitation rights, exposing ridiculous court rulings against men, etc.

About not paying for their children, you should check out child support payments from females to their ex-husbands - such court rulings are rare but they do exist, but they are ignored by most mothers without facing consequences.

As man you might even face jail for non-payment, but I was never able to trace even a single case of a woman unwilling to pay child-support who was sent behind bar. - Not even one!

Women MGTOWers? WHY would there be Women in a "Movement" which attacks from ALL angles, encourages ostracization of them
and sees Women as inherently Evil, a "Movement" with the abbreviation MGTOW (MEN Going Their Own Way)? Stop with the paradoxes, twisting words around and contradicting yourself, None of it is helping your attempt at a case.

MGTOW do not attack women, they attack feminism. You seem to be tricked and blinded by feminist lies.

And yes, there are female GTOW, not so many but they do exist - they join mostly because of their sons, who got in trouble and lost everything in Western feminist society despite they had good intentions. Some other women made good experience with their fathers in their childhood, but were badly treated or abandoned by their mothers and strongly questing the mindset of 'bad fathers, good mothers' - etc.

You see MGTOW only between men and women who are into a sexual relationship. This is the wrong way to go if you want to understand MGTOW.

MGTOW is often not about that, but about mothers and boys, fathers and daughters, abandoned children rejected by mothers, disputes between brothers and sisters, mistreatment of children by female relatives, false accusations by female class-mates and co-workers and so on.

Often MGTOW has nothing to do with a sexual relationship.

Many MGTOW do not really like to be MGTOW, I agree with you in this aspect. We see it however as an obligation to talk back to feminism. Somebody must go ahead and wash this dirty laundry, which otherwise would be 'forgotten', 'ignored' 'pushed away by biased court-rules' etc.

I have not seen One coherent argument in FAVOR of MGTOW, except This:
Have an MGTOW attitude (Reject American women and Marriage with them) while in America, but after moving Abroad, Relinquish (see what I'm doing?) the MGTOW attitude and look for a Traditional married lifestyle, but even That is a double-edged sword, as you'd have to give up the horribly flawed ideals MGTOW has anyway.

Your idea is similar to many members I meet in MGTOW Forums all the time - first they act like MGTOW, after they move away and find a foreign woman, find a job abroad etc. and settle down overseas and disappear into silence and inactivity. - This works often for a few years and we hear nothing about them.

I can assure you however many MGTOW members are coming back later on and tell us what happened to them in the MGTOW Forum I am using since over 10 years. They did not forget us. Some are telling us they found now a peaceful life but keep a little contact with us, others are telling us it went wrong and they will try to start again. Well...

We do not know about our future, but we as MGTOW help some men to avoid some certain mistake in their life.

MarcosZeitola wrote:
That is the uncomfortable truth. Most people on this forum appear to be sex tourists. There are a few decent, driven men who actually want to find love and build up a life for themselves, but lust and a need to be validated drives the vast majority. This is a truth so uncomfortable and inconvenient, people would rather not hear it.

For most people on this site, HappierAbroad is not about finding love or a wife. It is not something they do as a return to traditionalism, it is not something they do to strike a blow at feminism. Their beef with feminism is not that feminism kills the family unit, or that it promotes boundless promiscuity, infidelity as "empowering", creates an anti-male rhetoric... this does not matter to them as much as they claim. Their beef with feminism is "feminism promotes promiscuity and bitches STILL won't suck my cock!"
.

Personally, I take offence to this. A man who is looking for a wife is no more decent than a man who is involved in different uncommitted romantic relationships. Good god, not everybody wants to get married nor should they, and looking for love after the age of 25 I feel is rather juvenile.

Sex for a male is an important need that needs to be satisfied to stay sane and healthy regardless if you are married or not.

NorthAmericanguy wrote:Personally, I take offence to this. A man who is looking for a wife is no more decent than a man who is involved in different uncommitted romantic relationships.

The man looking for a wife is more traditionally-minded, he's a man with a purpose, a man seeking stability. This is the type of man the survival of society depends on, whereas the man chasing loose contacts and uncomitted romantic relationships is essentially a pointless hedonist. The lack of a commitment, furthermore, takes away the meaning from such relationships. She's not good enough for you to commit to her, and you're not good enough for her to commit either. The relationship is loose sand, going nowhere. At the end of the road you are left with nothing. Cheap thrills, feels good in the moment, but how about the long run? Too many men forget about the long run, and pay the price when it's too late.

By all means, do you. But there is no reason for you to be offended by my rejection of this lifestyle; I do so on a personal basis. Because I know it would make me miserable. Me, personally. What works for one man may not work for another. But let us not pretend a life of empty, short-lived relationships lacking any commitment, visiting prostitites, that this life is not going to feel empty and pointless to most people.

NorthAmericanguy wrote:Good god, not everybody wants to get married nor should they, and looking for love after the age of 25 I feel is rather juvenile.

What is juvenile about looking for love? We have several members here who have looked for and found well past the age of 25. Some in their thirties, others in their forties or even in their fifties. How are these men in any way "juvenile"?

NorthAmericanguy wrote:Sex for a male is an important need that needs to be satisfied to stay sane and healthy regardless if you are married or not.

True. So if a man seeks this with a woman and he wants to throw love and marriage, or at very least a stable comitted relationship in the mix, why is he juvenile?