To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.

What Toshiba and Microsoft THOUGHT we would say after the Bribe:
"Gosh, the war's just heating up!--Paramount made a radical choice to
the superior format!"

What the media analysts said after the Bribe:
"Gosh, the war's just heating up!--Paramount made a radical choice to
the superior format!"

What DVD customers *really* said to Toshiba and Microsoft after the Bribe:
"Oh, fer f***in' out loud, are you still HERE?????? >_< "

(Well, okay, so you can't fool everybody. -_- )
> The catalog:
> http://www.imdb.com/company/co0023400/
>
> To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
> Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
> films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
> least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
> television incarnations as well as the movies.

And when Paramount's exclusivity deal ends in (appropriately) 2009,
their future policies may swing on having learned a valuable lesson
about corporate PR.
Lesson 1: Don't get the SEC and the Department of Justice suspicious of
you.

> To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
> Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
> films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
> least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
> television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
> appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
> few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
> Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.

Whoopsie daisies - someone spoke too soon.

The Mission Impossible films are already out on both HD DVD and Blu-
ray.
Future Mission Impossible films will be Blu-ray only as they are now
United Artists property and as such distributed by MGM.
Titanic is a production of both Paramount and Fox so it will be HD DVD
only in USA and Blu-ray only in the rest of the world. Fox will be
releasing it in both UK and Japan which means it will be an all
regions release.
Jurassic Park is directed by Steven Spielberg, as are the Indiana
Jones movies. No Spielberg movies are allowed to be released
exclusively on HD DVD as the director controls them. He is releasing
his first film on Blu-ray Disc in November and has recorded a new high
definition introduction to it and is said to be immensely pleased with
the Blu-ray release. That movie? Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
That means no Indiana Jones movie, no Jurassic Park movie, no Jaws, no
Saving Private Ryan, no Minority Report, no Munich, no War of the
Worlds, no Schindler's List, etc., etc., etc.
>From the Viacom (Dreamworks SKG/Paramount Pictures parent company)
press release:http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073
"Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven
Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format."
Not exclusive to either format (unless of course it's Blu-ray - see
Close Encounters for further proof of that)

It should also be noted that this deal has only 18 months to it and it
is rumoured that it there is a notwithstanding clause that states if
Time Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive at any time in said 18 months, as
they are expected to do next year (Time Warner are on the Blu-ray Disc
Association's Board of Directors) the 18 month deal can be opted out
of.

No, Blu-ray is looking better and better everyday. Sales of Blu-ray
Discs are still 2:1 over HD DVD. When Blades of Glory and Heroes
Season 1 came out exclusively on HD DVD a few Tuesdays ago and Blu-ray
had ZERO new releases, Blu-ray still won that week's sales 56:44!

When "300" came out the Blu-ray outsold the HD DVD 1.91:1 in the first
week, then 2.47:1 and 2.22:1 in the second and third weeks.
Expect more of the same with those last two titles there in the
neutral section.

Blu-ray disc sales this Christmas are going to trounce HD DVD sales.

New Blu-ray players/camcorders/pcdrives announced for the holiday
season and first half of 2008
JVC
Denon
Daewoo
Loewe
Sharp
Sony
Samsung
Panasonic
Philips
Pioneer
Hitachi
Funai
Ben-Q

On the HD DVD side
Toshiba
Venturer
Onkyo
Integra

So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
made a bad decision? Not likely.

In article <>,
ninphan <> wrote:
> > To hit some highlights: All Mission Impossible Films, all Indiana
> > Jones films (including thet one in production now), the Jurassic Park
> > films, highest grossing movie of all time Titanic and last, but not
> > least all Star Trek releases, including the season boxed sets to all
> > television incarnations as well as the movies. Blu-Ray looks less
> > appealing each month. When at sub $200 player hits at Walmart within a
> > few months I believe the tide will shift quickly and those betting on
> > Blu-Ray will realize how poor of a choice that was.
>
> Whoopsie daisies - someone spoke too soon.
>
> The Mission Impossible films are already out on both HD DVD and Blu-
> ray.
> Future Mission Impossible films will be Blu-ray only as they are now
> United Artists property and as such distributed by MGM.
> Titanic is a production of both Paramount and Fox so it will be HD DVD
> only in USA and Blu-ray only in the rest of the world. Fox will be
> releasing it in both UK and Japan which means it will be an all
> regions release.
> Jurassic Park is directed by Steven Spielberg, as are the Indiana
> Jones movies. No Spielberg movies are allowed to be released
> exclusively on HD DVD as the director controls them. He is releasing
> his first film on Blu-ray Disc in November and has recorded a new high
> definition introduction to it and is said to be immensely pleased with
> the Blu-ray release. That movie? Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
> That means no Indiana Jones movie, no Jurassic Park movie, no Jaws, no
> Saving Private Ryan, no Minority Report, no Munich, no War of the
> Worlds, no Schindler's List, etc., etc., etc.
> >From the Viacom (Dreamworks SKG/Paramount Pictures parent company)
> press release:
> http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073
> "Today's announcement does not include films directed by Steven
> Spielberg as his films are not exclusive to either format."
> Not exclusive to either format (unless of course it's Blu-ray - see
> Close Encounters for further proof of that)
>
> It should also be noted that this deal has only 18 months to it and it
> is rumoured that it there is a notwithstanding clause that states if
> Time Warner goes Blu-ray exclusive at any time in said 18 months, as
> they are expected to do next year (Time Warner are on the Blu-ray Disc
> Association's Board of Directors) the 18 month deal can be opted out
> of.
>
> No, Blu-ray is looking better and better everyday. Sales of Blu-ray
> Discs are still 2:1 over HD DVD. When Blades of Glory and Heroes
> Season 1 came out exclusively on HD DVD a few Tuesdays ago and Blu-ray
> had ZERO new releases, Blu-ray still won that week's sales 56:44!
>
> Exclusive day and date releases by format heading into 4th quarter
>
> HD DVD
> Knocked Up
> Bourne Ulitmatum
> Transformers
> Chuck and Larry
> Star Trek First Season
> Evan Almighty
> A Mighty Heart
> Shrek 3
>
> Blu-ray
> Spiderman 3
> Die Hard 4
> Fantastic Four 2
> Pirates of the Caribbean 3
> Ratatouille
> Surf's Up
> 28 Weeks Later
> Reign Over Me
> Lost Season 3
> The Hills Have Eyes 2
> Hostel II
> Mr. Brooks
> Meet The Robinsons
> Hairspray
> Underdog
>
> Neutral biggies
> Oceans 13
> Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
>
> When "300" came out the Blu-ray outsold the HD DVD 1.91:1 in the first
> week, then 2.47:1 and 2.22:1 in the second and third weeks.
> Expect more of the same with those last two titles there in the
> neutral section.
>
> Blu-ray disc sales this Christmas are going to trounce HD DVD sales.
>
> New Blu-ray players/camcorders/pcdrives announced for the holiday
> season and first half of 2008
> JVC
> Denon
> Daewoo
> Loewe
> Sharp
> Sony
> Samsung
> Panasonic
> Philips
> Pioneer
> Hitachi
> Funai
> Ben-Q
>
>
> On the HD DVD side
> Toshiba
> Venturer
> Onkyo
> Integra
>
> So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
> made a bad decision? Not likely.

All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
store for the 2 HD format players:

BluRay about $500 entry level and up (quite a bit) from there. The big
downside is that all of them are Level 1 players, not a single one
upgradeable to the new (as of 10/31/2007) profile, with the possible
exception of the PS3. Denon had announced one with the new profile, but
that has been delayed until after the 1st of the year.

HDDVD about $200 entry level and up from there

Combo - no one knows for sure, but maybe a $600 one by November.

At these prices, either HDDVD wins this shopping season, on no one wins.
BD won't win EVER at a $500+ entry price point. That is unless you want
HiDef DVD to stay at 1% of the total DVD marketplace, which is hardly
winning.

Personally I think this phony 'war' will keep going for quite a while
longer.

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <>,
> ninphan <> wrote:
>
>>
>>So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
>>made a bad decision? Not likely.
>
> All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
> store for the 2 HD format players:

Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
"People want cheap players".
Good, think I'll buy me one of them Chinese players at Wal-mart, along
with a Vanilla Coke and a bag of Cheetos...Okay, just kidding.

Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
But, hey, how about them cheap players?

(And yes, I know: Alt.games and a.v.dvd are "pro-HD" because we had the
Gibbering Idiot plugging Blu--
But it's a new world now....Flying cars, 'n everything:
Yes, the Idiot still Gibbers--although we haven't heard the peep of a
gibber in months--but HD dropped the ball, acted like morons, resorted
to criminal activity to keep Microsoft's hope of HDM code monopoly
alive, even Disney and Dreamworks are now pointing "bribe" fingers when
the press can't, and HD now can't keep up a reasonably updated technical
argument in favor of their own product going to save their lives.

Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)

In article <aDdIi.4964$fz2.2944@trndny03>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> > In article <>,
> > ninphan <> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>So you seriously think Blu-ray purchasers are going to think THEY have
> >>made a bad decision? Not likely.
> >
> > All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
> > store for the 2 HD format players:
>
> Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
> "People want cheap players".
> Good, think I'll buy me one of them Chinese players at Wal-mart, along
> with a Vanilla Coke and a bag of Cheetos...Okay, just kidding.
>
> Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
> HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
> scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
> But, hey, how about them cheap players?
>
> (And yes, I know: Alt.games and a.v.dvd are "pro-HD" because we had the
> Gibbering Idiot plugging Blu--
> But it's a new world now....Flying cars, 'n everything:
> Yes, the Idiot still Gibbers--although we haven't heard the peep of a
> gibber in months--but HD dropped the ball, acted like morons, resorted
> to criminal activity to keep Microsoft's hope of HDM code monopoly
> alive, even Disney and Dreamworks are now pointing "bribe" fingers when
> the press can't, and HD now can't keep up a reasonably updated technical
> argument in favor of their own product going to save their lives.
>
> Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
> gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
> war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
> levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
> Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)
>
> Derek Janssen (who gets out a little, once in a while)
>

You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.

The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
one fine rat's ass about that. In fact, the talking about the profile
levels points out that BD was brought to market way too soon. Hell,
I'll even give you that BD is better in many respects than HDDVD. But
that won't sell the damn things.

What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
only marginally from the HDDVD camp.

As to who paid who to do what, well that won't wash. There was and is
plenty of money being splashed around on both sides to keep the justice
dept busy for lots of years if they were so inclined. But neither side
wants to see that happen.

What should be happening is that ALL THE DAMN STUDIOS should be pressing
both formats and let the consumer speak with his wallet. But currently
neither side wants that to happen.

Now to HDMI. If there ever was a connector that was designed without
the consumer in mind, this one is it. It is now and looks like will
always be a PITA! While it looks to make things simpler, we keep
reading about this player and that AVR with that TV just don't like
something in the chain. And it is all about the 'security' that the
mfgs and studios wanted incorporated, consumer be damned.

Currently all too many products and technology from the CE mfgs are just
missing the consumer mark. And if you are taking a strong side in the
Hi Def DVD war, you almost have to be an idiot. I don't give a crap
which side wins, and I'm not sure I want either to win until they get
the prices down for an entry level machine and the software (movies).

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>>All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
>>>store for the 2 HD format players:
>>
>>Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
>>"People want cheap players".
>>Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
>>HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
>>scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
>>But, hey, how about them cheap players?
>>
>>Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
>>gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
>>war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
>>levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
>>Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)
>
> You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
> with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
> that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.
>
> The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
> it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
> version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
> one fine rat's ass about that.

Actually, they do, which's why sales have been slow lately:
Blu's had to put out statements saying, "No, really, it's okay, you CAN
buy a player before October!"
Most seem to be waiting for the Q4 third-generations anyway, as the
mindset seems to be in with the armchair tech-buying Best Buy customers
(who don't shop at Wal-mart) that they don't want to replace their
purchase next year when the industry throws them another curve ball.
Between the substandard product that's ready now, and a suitable and
adaptably ground-level product that's ready tomorrow, the one that's
"complete" now is...not a good idea. Tomorrow is always another day.
> What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
> At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
> only marginally from the HDDVD camp.

So, basically, what we're hearing from the HD camp is "Well, sure, the
other guys claim they may have some technical edge NEXT year, but it
doesn't matter now, because the customers are idiots who don't know
better, and they're going to buy our format by accident...That's what
they do!"

(Um...well....I'm sold. 0_0''
Nice to see an industry treating their product's sales like a Victim of
Circumstance.)

In article <_4eIi.15041$No2.14340@trndny07>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
> >>>All this is very nice. Now let's talk about the price you'll see in the
> >>>store for the 2 HD format players:
> >>
> >>Sure--Because, as we've seen on other boards, that's ALL HD fans do:
> >>"People want cheap players".
> >>Unfortunately, the topic of storage capacity, audio codecs, 1080i vs p,
> >>HDMI 1.3 rarely gets brought up, and when it does, we get thrown some
> >>scare-story fact from 2006 that has since been firmwared out of existence.
> >>But, hey, how about them cheap players?
> >>
> >>Being a Blu proponent now no longer means being a "Whoa, d00d!" PS3
> >>gamer-boi, it means now trying to see an integrated end to the format
> >>war, and how to engineer future consumer-friendliness into one format to
> >>levee-dam that '09 floodwave of newbies that's about to hit.
> >>Sorry, guys, you had your chance, but like David Mamet says, Things Change.)
> >
> > You are confusing the wants and needs of the audio/videophile and geeks
> > with those of the average consumer. Every poll and study done shows
> > that cheaper is what gets it done in CE.
> >
> > The Blu Ray fans always want to talk about the technology, but usually
> > it is the technology that is coming in the next version after the next
> > version after the next version. The consumer world just doesn't give
> > one fine rat's ass about that.
>
> Actually, they do, which's why sales have been slow lately:
> Blu's had to put out statements saying, "No, really, it's okay, you CAN
> buy a player before October!"
> Most seem to be waiting for the Q4 third-generations anyway, as the
> mindset seems to be in with the armchair tech-buying Best Buy customers
> (who don't shop at Wal-mart) that they don't want to replace their
> purchase next year when the industry throws them another curve ball.
> Between the substandard product that's ready now, and a suitable and
> adaptably ground-level product that's ready tomorrow, the one that's
> "complete" now is...not a good idea. Tomorrow is always another day.
>
> > What the consumer wants is a cheap hi definition DVD that works well.
> > At the moment, he isn't being offered one from the BD camp at all, and
> > only marginally from the HDDVD camp.
>
> So, basically, what we're hearing from the HD camp is "Well, sure, the
> other guys claim they may have some technical edge NEXT year, but it
> doesn't matter now, because the customers are idiots who don't know
> better, and they're going to buy our format by accident...That's what
> they do!"
>
> (Um...well....I'm sold. 0_0''
> Nice to see an industry treating their product's sales like a Victim of
> Circumstance.)
>
> Derek Janssen (or "Soicumstance", for Curly fans)
>

Was it ever different?

BTW, sales are slow lately because this is a slow buying time overall.
And with other pressures on the economy (like the housing bubble
issues), it may be a slow holiday buying season also.

Back to that old tech thing... ;-)

If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
every sale.

Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
gamers go 'wow!'

BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
connection required for BD's next profile, and Warner likes it and uses
it with some of their releases with more planned.

When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
price.

Now Warner is getting ready to release another combo HDDVD and BD ( one
of the Harry Potter ones), but the price will be the same. With the
sluggish sales of both formats I don't know if people will really
notice, but it will be interesting to see if the ratio holds up.
Assuming it does, it still leaves BD pathetic with the lead it has in
actual players.

Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
dvd market at the moment anyway.

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>
> If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
> the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
> isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
> practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
> every sale.
>
> Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
> gamers go 'wow!'

And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
a Blu player.
(Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)
> BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
> advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
> connection required for BD's next profile,

(Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)
> and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more planned.

Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
of the war--
And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
without undue embarrassment.

Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
"Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-
> When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
> ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
> price.

And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
new tomb at Arlington.
> Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
> dvd market at the moment anyway.

....Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^

(It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
to watch TV.) >

In article <rPeIi.4894$603.1787@trndny02>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >
> > If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
> > the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
> > isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
> > practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
> > every sale.
> >
> > Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
> > gamers go 'wow!'
>
> And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
> a Blu player.
> (Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)

I read somewhere that the % of PS3 owners that know it is a BD player
was quite low, and that of that number, even fewer used it that way.
>
> > BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
> > advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
> > connection required for BD's next profile,
>
> (Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)
>
Not mandatory, only optional. Currently other than the PS3, only one
other BD player has it.
> > and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more
> > planned.
>
> Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
> R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
> of the war--
> And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
> without undue embarrassment.
>
Yeah, TotalHD flopped quick didn't it? :-0
> Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
> Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
> "Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
> um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-
>
> > When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
> > ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
> > price.
>
> And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
> re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
> Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
> new tomb at Arlington.
>
Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.
> > Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
> > dvd market at the moment anyway.
>
> ...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^
>
> (It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
> Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
> Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
> Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
> And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
> talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
> into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
> to watch TV.) >
>
> Derek Janssen (oh yeah, we're about to see "Nobody owns those big
> screens anyway" retired REAL quick)
>

I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
but here's what my toy room has :

JVC 61" HD-iLA (1080i 'cause they didn't have 1080p then)

Toshiba HD-A2 HDDVD player

Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.

For info, I ended up with both AVRs 'cause while trying both out, I kept
them past the 30 days. So I thought, what the hell! The HK is superior
in most ways (IMO) to the Yamaha, but it doesn't currently do 7.1 LPCM
via HDMI nor layer Dolby iix over 5.1, but the Yamaha does.

So HDMI from the players to the Yamaha, video out HDMI via switch to the
TV, audio out the 8 channel pre outs to the 8 channel analog inputs on
the HK. Makes for one sweet sounding system and my fingers love the
workout they get on the remotes!

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> In article <rPeIi.4894$603.1787@trndny02>,
> Derek Janssen <> wrote:
>
>
>>Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>
>>>If being the best technology was what sold, the PS3 would be flying off
>>>the shelves, and Sony would be making buckets of money off it. Yet that
>>>isn't the case at all. The sales are sluggish and that is with Sony
>>>practically giving them away, losing bunches of bucks with each and
>>>every sale.
>>>
>>>Heck, they can't even get someone to write a game for it that makes
>>>gamers go 'wow!'
>>
>>And ironically, some polls show 2/3 of gamerz weren't even aware it WAS
>>a Blu player.
>>(Well, we know one who did, but let's forget about him for the moment.)
>
>
> I read somewhere that the % of PS3 owners that know it is a BD player
> was quite low, and that of that number, even fewer used it that way.
>
>
>>>BTW, if BD were to have the new profile in place and all the movies took
>>>advantage of it, they would still be behind HDDVD. No internet
>>>connection required for BD's next profile,
>>
>>(Nope, just Ethernet, sorry.)
>>
>
> Not mandatory, only optional. Currently other than the PS3, only one
> other BD player has it.
>
>
>>>and Warner likes it and uses it with some of their releases with more
>>>planned.
>>
>>Well, that was pretty much over the fact that they'd invested so much
>>R&D cash into the "TotalHD" disks that were supposed to bring peace out
>>of the war--
>>And which are now being quietly backshelved and retired by the company
>>without undue embarrassment.
>>
>
> Yeah, TotalHD flopped quick didn't it? :-0
>
>
>>Recent rumor has it that Toshiba was in fact more interested in bribing
>>Warner out of neutrality (so they could leverage Paramount/Dream with
>>"Uh, yeahh, we're in talks with Warner at the moment..."), but,
>>um...think we can guess whether there's any love there. -_-
>>
>>
>>>When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
>>>ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
>>>price.
>>
>>And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
>>re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
>>Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
>>new tomb at Arlington.
>>
>
> Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
> bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
> player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.
>
>
>>>Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
>>>dvd market at the moment anyway.
>>
>>...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^
>>
>>(It's said that techies With the new toys should never ask the techies
>>Without for sympathy, as it's a lost cause, but...trust us on this one.
>>Old-school DVD fans know the first taste of addictive Mainstream Video
>>Crack when they see one, and they know a future Outbreak before it hits--
>>And if we're talking "Gullible customers who don't know better", let's
>>talk about mainstream middle-class Circuit City customers browbeaten
>>into thinking they have to by a widescreen HDTV before February '09 just
>>to watch TV.) >
>>
>>Derek Janssen (oh yeah, we're about to see "Nobody owns those big
>>screens anyway" retired REAL quick)
>>
>
>
> I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
> but here's what my toy room has :
>
> JVC 61" HD-iLA (1080i 'cause they didn't have 1080p then)
>
> Toshiba HD-A2 HDDVD player
>
> Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
> spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
> decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
> happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.
>
> My procrastinator's delight AV system:
> Harman Kardon AVR247 (main receiver)
> Yamaha RX-V661 (as a pre/pro for the BD and HDDVD players)
>
> Dish Network Vip622 HD-DVR Satellite Receiver.
>
> For info, I ended up with both AVRs 'cause while trying both out, I kept
> them past the 30 days. So I thought, what the hell! The HK is superior
> in most ways (IMO) to the Yamaha, but it doesn't currently do 7.1 LPCM
> via HDMI nor layer Dolby iix over 5.1, but the Yamaha does.
>
> So HDMI from the players to the Yamaha, video out HDMI via switch to the
> TV, audio out the 8 channel pre outs to the 8 channel analog inputs on
> the HK. Makes for one sweet sounding system and my fingers love the
> workout they get on the remotes!

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>
>>>When 300 released on both, the BD camp made a big deal out of the sales
>>>ratio. But that was when the HDDVD version was a combo disk at a higher
>>>price.
>>
>>And before Universal and Warner retired their combo disks, and
>>re-released all previously DVD-combo movies on solo-HD disks.
>>Well, there's our first official casualty of the War--Better get up that
>>new tomb at Arlington.
>
> Other than the price difference, I never understood why the combo was a
> bad idea, still don't. Buy a movie now, play it on your current DVD
> player, and later with a HDDVD player. Made good sense.

Not to the customers:
The concept was supposed to stem the old "Fear of replacing your
library" phobia that was buried in the unwashed-consumer DNA since the
days of VCR->DVD.

Until word got out that both players were backwards compatible and you
DIDN'T have to have a "crutch" to still play your DVD's*...
Which brought the issue back down to where it was in the first place,
namely customers doing their homework and choosing sides over a format.
Which they seem to have done.

(*- Oh, watch, now we're going to get "Yeah, but the PS3 doesn't
upconvert!" thing from 2006...
No, really, HD people are *still* using that one a year later!--See what
I mean?)
>>>Of course, pathetic is just the perfect description of the total hi def
>>>dvd market at the moment anyway.
>>
>>...Don't own a screen, huh? ^_^
>
> I guess you either don't read here often or have a short memory span,
> but here's what my toy room has :
>
> Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
> spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
> decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
> happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.

Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<

But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
there for firmware upgrade ability.

In article <MAfIi.15045$No2.2111@trndny07>,
Derek Janssen <> wrote:
> > Sony BDP-S300 BD player. This is my last Sony purchase. This player
> > spec'd out TrueHD on page 48 of the owner's manual, but it doesn't
> > decode it and it appears no firmware upgrade to implement it is gonna
> > happen. This in spite of the fact the board is the same as in the S1.
>
> Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
> this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
>
> But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
> over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
> Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
> hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
> that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
> there for firmware upgrade ability.
>
> ...Yeah, I know, galls the heck outta me too, but customer reviews don't
> lie.
>
> Derek Janssen (and one word...So help me, ONE WORD out of a.g.v.sp3...)
>

But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.

Lloyd Parsons wrote:
>>Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
>>this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
>>
>>But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
>>over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
>>Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
>>hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
>>that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
>>there for firmware upgrade ability.
>>
> But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
> There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.
>
> So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.

Not as mum as Sharp is about specs on their mysterious Q4 Aquos player--
Which's why I'm also keeping an eye on the "third player" before
*officially* going PS3...After CES'08 at the earliest.
(To bring us back to topic.)

But the issue on PS3 was over whether the chips COULD upgrade to
firmware updates, which seems to have been the stumbling block so far
with the S300 and other early standalones--
The chips on the home-theater models proved to be so unadaptable to
other uses, they haven't responded well to upgrades as well as the
all-purpose models.

(And y'see, here we're back to that little "It'll still work tomorrow"
thing that frustrates the "Already available" HD fans who can't
understand why Blu fans have patience about "what isn't out yet":
Always have to buy your clothes with growing room.)

On Sep 19, 4:45 pm, Derek Janssen <> wrote:
> Lloyd Parsons wrote:
> >>Believe me, a few months with Blu-Boy, and a PS3 was the LAST thing on
> >>this good green earth I was interested in getting as a player... >_<
>
> >>But FWIH, you're not the only one who threw Sony out with the bathwater
> >>over the first/second-gen S300 mistake--
> >>Me, I was keeping an eye on Samsung, but after their hoped-for third-gen
> >>hadn't gotten their Profile yet, I had to face the tech-player advice
> >>that the PS3 really *was* the only good current '07 Sony standalone out
> >>there for firmware upgrade ability.
>
> > But Sony is damn mum about how far they will go to upgrade the PS3.
> > There is no assurance it will happen. FWIW, I think it will be.
>
> > So I'll just wait a bit before buying any new BD player.
>
> Not as mum as Sharp is about specs on their mysterious Q4 Aquos player--
> Which's why I'm also keeping an eye on the "third player" before
> *officially* going PS3...After CES'08 at the earliest.
> (To bring us back to topic.)
>
> But the issue on PS3 was over whether the chips COULD upgrade to
> firmware updates, which seems to have been the stumbling block so far
> with the S300 and other early standalones--
> The chips on the home-theater models proved to be so unadaptable to
> other uses, they haven't responded well to upgrades as well as the
> all-purpose models.
>
> (And y'see, here we're back to that little "It'll still work tomorrow"
> thing that frustrates the "Already available" HD fans who can't
> understand why Blu fans have patience about "what isn't out yet":
> Always have to buy your clothes with growing room.)
>
> Derek Janssen
>

Blu-ray fans probably have patience because they don't care about PIP
getting in the way of watching the main movie.
It's all about picture quality and the Blu-ray players have it and the
HD DVD players with the exception of the XA2 do not.
1080p/24 on a set that accepts and displays at either 72Hz or 120Hz is
always going to be a more accurate picture than a 1080i/60 source.
Just look at Gary Merson's numerous tests done on sets with that input
signal - disastrous, over 50% failure on deinterlacing and worse on
3:2 pulldown on 1080i/60 sources like the A2.

I keep hearing a lot about price and Toshiba has had players at the
$200 mark often this year, yet HD DVD still cannot win a single week's
worth of sales, not one week, this whole entire year!!! It's Q4 in 10
days and HD DVD looks like HD DUD I'm afraid. Call it fanboyism if you
wish, I call it reality. I call it a desire to see an end to the war
with the best format on the market and that is Blu-ray.

I also keep hearing a lot about how HD DVD has a finished spec, yet
now I hear a lot about HD51 discs! I guess the spec isn't finished at
all is it?

Sharp have released their specs. It supports TrueHD decoding,
bitstream audio out through HDMI of DTS-HD Master Audio, Dolby TrueHD,
DTS-HD, Dolby Digital Plus and is profile 1.0 compliant as it is being
released before October 31st, 2007. Their all in one BD-MPC70 Blu-ray
Home Cinema System is a different story. It will be released in Spring
2008 and will be at least profile 1.1 compliant, much like the
upcoming Denon DVD-3800BD player.

As for Blu-ray players starting at $500 for this Christmas...where do
people come up with this crap? Do they not bother researching before
typing?

The new Samsung BD-P1400 with DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD
support through HDMI bitstream 1.3a and 1080p/24 output is $429.90
The BDP-S300 is $439

This is with another three months to go before the holidays! Prices
will not be a factor when people bother to look at what's
available...and they will. Fox, Disney and Sony will all have either
endcaps or big signs in stores with Die Hard 4, Silver Surfer, Spider-
man 3, Ratatouille and Pirates of the Caribbean 3 all being solely
available on Blu-ray and Warner will have similar cutouts to the ones
they had for "300" where both HD DVD and Blu-ray are prominently
advertised. Transformers and Bourne just won't cut it against all this
exposure people will be getting to Blu-ray.

Aside from that, this Christmas is when J6P will be picking up an
HDTV, not picking up a high definition player.

ninphan wrote:
>
> Aside from that, this Christmas is when J6P will be picking up an
> HDTV, not picking up a high definition player.

Exactly:
J6P and Smuggy F. Warwhiner (the cynical evil brother of J6P, who prides
himself on his initials) both say "Who cares about the next disk,
there're only 35 sets out there anyway!"
But this is a special case as from 90's DVD, as the public now has to be
sold TWO new gizmos at once that they've previously not been acquainted
with, and in sequence--The horse has to come before the cart, and the
screen has to come before the player.

And grownups may buy new toys every Christmas-sales rush, but when those
toys start in the $700's, they usually buy ONE toy.
And it's more likely to be the more Best Buy demonstratable one that
shows football games you *don't* have to replace libraries for, which
they imagine will alone be enough of a cable headache (aside from the
fact that they now think they have to spring for the DirecTV satellite
service that BB keeps throwing at them)...And that's leaving aside all
those misread panic headlines, where somebody in the paper told them
their old TV set now has only a year to live.

And why is a Q4'07 boom in set sales important (apart from making
production more mainstream and lowering the price)?...It starts the
addiction.
Which means J6P will *stop* asking "Why do we need hi-def disks?" (as he
can now turn on ABC for free and get an answer every night), haul off
and slap SFW in the head, and start reading up his homework for next
season's toy....Ah, sweet war-recruitment drive. ^_^

(One recent HDTV sales-promo doc that's been airing compared "invisible"
present-day network HDTV broadcast saturation to Walt Disney and Bonanza
selling color TV sets in the 60's--
And as one who can remember the first time he got to watch Wizard of Oz
on the family's first new color TV set as a kid, those comparisons are
so on the mark as to be scary.) 0_0''

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