A COLOURFUL, vibrant parade made its way through High Wycombe this morning to mark one of the most important dates in the Islamic calendar.

The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Organisers said it was probably the biggest turnout in the event’s 26-year history, with an estimated 2000-plus joining in the parade through the town.

A sea of people with brightly coloured banners and flags set off from Jubilee Road mosque at 11.45am and made their way along Desborough Road to the town centre.

Zafar Iqbal, chairman of the Wycombe Islamic Mission, said: “It’s a lovely sunny day, we really have the blessing of God today.

"It’s a big turnout, more than 2000 people, it’s a very long procession and we’re here to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet, peace be upon him.

"This is now the 26th year and I think today is the biggest one yet. It’s a very peaceful display. We don’t want to hurt anybody or disturb the community in any way.

"This is one of the top days in the Islamic calendar. It’s great to see a lot of young people here, and we keep getting told young people are not associating themselves with the mosque which is not true."

The celebration, known as Eid-Milad-Un-Nabi, commemorates the birth of the one of Islam's central figures, Muhammad, who Muslims believe was the last prophet to be sent to Earth by Allah.

Similar scenes could be witnessed throughout the UK, with Muslims using the important date to spread a message of peace.

The crowd, accompanied by a 4x4 truck blasting out music to fascinated onlookers, arrived at the Guild Hall at 12.30, where there was a pause in proceedings.

Imam Sultan Mahmood from Totteridge Road mosque addressed the gathered revellers, insisting the Islamic message was one based on respect and peace, and he stressed the importance of collaboration as part of one wider community.

The Reverend Jackie Lock also attended the ceremony representing All Saints Church, and was invited to speak.

She said: “Thank you for inviting me here today. It is a very great privilege to bring you greetings from the community as part of the church.”

Wycombe District Council chairman Ian McKennis also took to the microphone, welcoming Muslims on their special day and saying it is another example of the good community spirit in the town.

Rolling road closures were put in place as the procession made its way through town, and eventually past Wycombe Hospital before weaving back towards the Jubilee Road mosque to continue the celebrations.

Mr Iqbal stressed the parade is not about highlighting differences, but celebrating tolerance and harmony in the High Wycombe community, which he said is reflected in the presence of church leaders.

He said: “I think it’s very important to have a representative from the church. We want to show that there’s a lot of common ground between the Christian community and the Muslim community and we want to celebrate that.

“Living in this community together, we want to show out togetherness and we want to show we are part of this community and working together for peace, harmony and the betterment of the community.

“Our message to people is that Islam is a loving and peaceful religion.”

Comments (91)

Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?

Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade

Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.

So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.

Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?
Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade
Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.
So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.frackellgirl

frackellgirl wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music &quot;blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?

Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade

Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.

So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.

Several times a year ?
It's once a year .

[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?
Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade
Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.
So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.[/p][/quote]Several times a year ?
It's once a year .HASAN786

Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sidedRobert.M

Robert.M wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" to which you allude.
I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.

[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" to which you allude.
I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.Monty Cristo

As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?

I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.

As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?
I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.Kadoogan

Several of the things Frackellgirl says are debatable but - two things:

Firstly Frackellgirl calls High Wycombe:

… a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade ...

Then Robert M says:
there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else ...

Sounds like equality of indifference there.

Secondly

The established church of Protestant Englishmen and English women was spoken on behalf of by a woman, the Reverend Jackie Lock - why are there no female Muslim faces in the photograph?

Several of the things Frackellgirl says are debatable but - two things:
Firstly Frackellgirl calls High Wycombe:
[italic] … a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade ...[/italic]
Then Robert M says:
[italic]
there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else ... [/italic]
Sounds like equality of indifference there.
Secondly
The established church of Protestant Englishmen and English women was spoken on behalf of by a woman, the Reverend Jackie Lock - why are there no female Muslim faces in the photograph?Undercover Euro Yob

Kadoogan wrote:
As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?

I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.

There was a Homecoming Parade organised for Bucks soldiers returning from Iraq in 2009. Due to disruptions by "extremists" at a parade in Luton this was cancelled.

This parade should have gone ahead as planned with extra police protection as necessary. As usual we caved into these extremists . What an insult to our brave soldiers.

[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote:
As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?
I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.[/p][/quote]There was a Homecoming Parade organised for Bucks soldiers returning from Iraq in 2009. Due to disruptions by "extremists" at a parade in Luton this was cancelled.
This parade should have gone ahead as planned with extra police protection as necessary. As usual we caved into these extremists . What an insult to our brave soldiers.frackellgirl

Can't find any reference to that cancelled homecoming parade after a quick Google search. Plenty of other towns seem to have held them though, so it is strange ours saw fit not to. Remembrance day always seems to be well observed.

I agree we shouldn't give in to extremists, whether it's those who claim to follow islam or, as it was not so many years ago, those claiming to be catholic under the IRA.

Can't find any reference to that cancelled homecoming parade after a quick Google search. Plenty of other towns seem to have held them though, so it is strange ours saw fit not to. Remembrance day always seems to be well observed.
I agree we shouldn't give in to extremists, whether it's those who claim to follow islam or, as it was not so many years ago, those claiming to be catholic under the IRA.Kadoogan

frackellgirl wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music &quot;blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?

Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade

Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.

So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.

Several times a year ?
It's once a year .

Amazing how a post containing one verifiable fact is down voted. Clearly we don't like facts in these parts....

[quote][p][bold]HASAN786[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?
Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade
Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.
So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.[/p][/quote]Several times a year ?
It's once a year .[/p][/quote]Amazing how a post containing one verifiable fact is down voted. Clearly we don't like facts in these parts....Kadoogan

(Interestingly when I used to post under the name 'Clyde the Retired Police Horse' I could say identical things and Clyde would get positive votes while I received negative votes under my own name - just shows the respect we have for retired police horses if not for facts.)

LOL - I've noticed this in the past.
(Interestingly when I used to post under the name 'Clyde the Retired Police Horse' I could say identical things and Clyde would get positive votes while I received negative votes under my own name - just shows the respect we have for retired police horses if not for facts.)Undercover Euro Yob

Talking about not liking facts there seems to be no defensible case for the 11+ yet it is perpetuated by the County Council and included in the Conservative party platform every time without fail - often justified on grounds of the most apparently cold-blooded rationality.

Talking about not liking facts there seems to be no defensible case for the 11+ yet it is perpetuated by the County Council and included in the Conservative party platform every time without fail - often justified on grounds of the most apparently cold-blooded rationality.Undercover Euro Yob

uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?

I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.

uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?
I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.England must be saved

England must be saved wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

More accurately, should that read 'The &quot;male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?

I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.

Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.

Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.

Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.

[quote][p][bold]England must be saved[/bold] wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?
I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.[/p][/quote]Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.
Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.
Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.Undercover Euro Yob

I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?

I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?

I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?
I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?Mr Totterdge Hill

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?

I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?

'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&E then get rid of it altogether.

[quote][p][bold]Mr Totterdge Hill[/bold] wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?
I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?[/p][/quote]'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&E then get rid of it altogether.Undercover Euro Yob

Why is only Queen Victoria Street closed briefly and the High Street used for the St Georges day parade, when the whole town centre can be disrupted for marking the birth of the Prophet Muhammad?

Why is only Queen Victoria Street closed briefly and the High Street used for the St Georges day parade, when the whole town centre can be disrupted for marking the birth of the Prophet Muhammad?Jill_Peterson

Jill_Peterson wrote:
Why is only Queen Victoria Street closed briefly and the High Street used for the St Georges day parade, when the whole town centre can be disrupted for marking the birth of the Prophet Muhammad?

Bigger turn out for the Muhammad team presumably - were there 2,000 blokes for George the traditional white British lobbyist in heaven?

[quote][p][bold]Jill_Peterson[/bold] wrote:
Why is only Queen Victoria Street closed briefly and the High Street used for the St Georges day parade, when the whole town centre can be disrupted for marking the birth of the Prophet Muhammad?[/p][/quote]Bigger turn out for the Muhammad team presumably - were there 2,000 blokes for George the traditional white British lobbyist in heaven?Undercover Euro Yob

This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.Moonpanda

England must be saved wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

More accurately, should that read 'The &quot;male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?

I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.

You may discover that that sole female attendee was Associate Priest at All Saints , High Wycombe - The Reverend Jackie Lock.
.

[quote][p][bold]England must be saved[/bold] wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?
I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.[/p][/quote]You may discover that that sole female attendee was Associate Priest at All Saints , High Wycombe - The Reverend Jackie Lock.
.J B Blackett

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

It was more of a birthday party for the Muslim prophet rather than a: 'type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason'.

This is just my view but all religious belief is based on ‘faith’ - you can’t prove there is a God so their faith is no more based on ‘ignorance’ than Christianity is.

If you are saying their religious beliefs are a recent and perhaps still foreign-seeming part of British society then fair enough, but there has always been change in our society - Wycombe was one of the earliest sites of the Protestant attack on Roman Catholicism before the English Reformation, and before the war there were letters in the BFP about Welsh miners coming to this locality for work, in the aftermath of the collapse of the South Wales coal and steel industries following the First World War.

There are Muslims in HW today and as far as I am concerned I don't feel I am having 'war' waged against me if they want to wish their prophet a Happy Birthday. I make no secret of the fact that I don't share their beliefs with the Muslims I know and we respect each other’s opinions. (BTW I don't remember there being any protests by Muslims about the town centre being shut down completely to celebrate the birthday of our prophet on 25 December and I have never seen so many white faces in ‘Chicken Cottage’ on Frogmoor as on Christmas Day.)

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]It was more of a birthday party for the Muslim prophet rather than a: [italic] 'type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason'.[/italic]
This is just my view but all religious belief is based on ‘faith’ - you can’t [italic] prove [/italic] there is a God so their faith is no more based on ‘ignorance’ than Christianity is.
If you are saying their religious beliefs are a recent and perhaps still foreign-seeming part of British society then fair enough, but there has always been change in our society - Wycombe was one of the earliest sites of the Protestant attack on Roman Catholicism before the English Reformation, and before the war there were letters in the BFP about Welsh miners coming to this locality for work, in the aftermath of the collapse of the South Wales coal and steel industries following the First World War.
There [italic] are[/italic] Muslims in HW today and as far as I am concerned I don't feel I am having 'war' waged against me if they want to wish their prophet a Happy Birthday. I make no secret of the fact that I don't share their beliefs with the Muslims I know and we respect each other’s opinions. (BTW I don't remember there being any protests by Muslims about the town centre being shut down completely to celebrate the birthday of [italic] our[/italic] prophet on 25 December and I have never seen so many white faces in ‘Chicken Cottage’ on Frogmoor as on Christmas Day.)Undercover Euro Yob

Live and let Live - everybody is entitled to be themself (within reason) - the essence of good manners is to be oneself without being obnoxious to others.
(I don't always behave that way in life in actual fact but anyway ...)

Many years ago a small Muslim girl I knew in Lancashire looked at me very seriously and said in a local accent that one of her friends was not allowed to go swimming at school because: ‘Her Dad says ye’ll catch it off God when you die if ye go swimming’ - she added ‘I think that’s daft don’t you?’ Always remember that if the bearded blokes in the High Street on Sunday have got it right and you have it wrong then you may catch it off God when you die.

Before I go to bed -
Live and let Live - everybody is entitled to be themself (within reason) - the essence of good manners is to be oneself without being obnoxious to others.
(I don't always behave that way in life in actual fact but anyway ...)
Many years ago a small Muslim girl I knew in Lancashire looked at me very seriously and said in a local accent that one of her friends was not allowed to go swimming at school because: ‘Her Dad says ye’ll catch it off God when you die if ye go swimming’ - she added ‘I think that’s [italic]daft [/italic] don’t you?’ Always remember that if the bearded blokes in the High Street on Sunday have got it right and you have it wrong then you may catch it off God when you die.Undercover Euro Yob

It might be possible to come to see one day that all 'belief' systems without exception ( that is religious , political , financial , organizational etc ) are in the end all divisive and cause distress, despondency , despair and worse to countless millions of people - and even affects / infects those not directly involved . And that's going back into human history almost invisible in the mists of time
.
But this unfortunate human trait continues to persist.
.
Why does the human race have all these different conflicting systems ? Nobody really knows , but there is the slightest feeling that's it's all about some folk wishing to dictate to and control lots of other folk. And it's not just religious/political people either - atheistic people , people with no god(s) at all , anarchists (contradictorily) etc etc have vigorously advocated their systems in the past.
.
It might be preferable in the interests of a peaceful world to not believe in any of them - that's what we like to believe. Or would we ?
.
It certainly is a funny old world.

It might be possible to come to see one day that all 'belief' systems without exception ( that is religious , political , financial , organizational etc ) are in the end all divisive and cause distress, despondency , despair and worse to countless millions of people - and even affects / infects those not directly involved . And that's going back into human history almost invisible in the mists of time
.
But this unfortunate human trait continues to persist.
.
Why does the human race have all these different conflicting systems ? Nobody really knows , but there is the slightest feeling that's it's all about some folk wishing to dictate to and control lots of other folk. And it's not just religious/political people either - atheistic people , people with no god(s) at all , anarchists (contradictorily) etc etc have vigorously advocated their systems in the past.
.
It might be preferable in the interests of a peaceful world to not believe in any of them - that's what we like to believe. Or would we ?
.
It certainly is a funny old world.J B Blackett

frackellgirl wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music &quot;blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?

Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade

Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.

So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.

Several times a year ?
It's once a year .

There were people of anjum choudry network.
we have no connection with scum bag who is a stupid ****.

[quote][p][bold]HASAN786[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?
Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade
Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.
So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.[/p][/quote]Several times a year ?
It's once a year .[/p][/quote]There were people of anjum choudry network.
we have no connection with scum bag who is a stupid ****.1wycombe

frackellgirl wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music &quot;blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?

Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade

Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.

So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.

A lot of things in life are due to attitude. You sound as though you have a very negative attitude, if what you say is true, maybe you should look and ask why?

These people are human beings, just like you, they have blood, veins running through their bodies just like you and me, maybe they look on life a bit different from you, i'm sure you can enjoy and arrange your life just like this if you wanted to.

I'm glad all went well with this parade, looks as though it was very good.

[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
Hope this section of the community realises how privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year to celebrate their religious beliefs. Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?
Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. Not very far I bet, in a town that refuses to even advertise the annual carol concert and St. George's Day parade, although. for once, there was a very small paragraph in the BFP last year reporting on the St. George's parade
Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists.
So enjoy your parades while you can but acknowledge the resentment from those denied similar privileges in our society.[/p][/quote]A lot of things in life are due to attitude. You sound as though you have a very negative attitude, if what you say is true, maybe you should look and ask why?
These people are human beings, just like you, they have blood, veins running through their bodies just like you and me, maybe they look on life a bit different from you, i'm sure you can enjoy and arrange your life just like this if you wanted to.
I'm glad all went well with this parade, looks as though it was very good.miccles

Robert.M wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

Why is it always us and them, we live in a country where we are free to express our views and beliefs if you do not like it move out!

Seems the non muslim population moan more about the country than muslims do!

[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]Why is it always us and them, we live in a country where we are free to express our views and beliefs if you do not like it move out!
Seems the non muslim population moan more about the country than muslims do!hassan12321

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?

I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?

'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&amp;E then get rid of it altogether.

If only this wasn't so true!

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Mr Totterdge Hill[/bold] wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?
I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?[/p][/quote]'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&E then get rid of it altogether.[/p][/quote]If only this wasn't so true!Mr Totterdge Hill

Mr Totterdge Hill wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?

I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?

'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&amp;E then get rid of it altogether.

If only this wasn't so true!

Perhaps they are going to privatise illness so that sickness and injury are subject to the discipline of the market place - the elderly and people with loss-making long-term illnesses can be humanely destroyed (for a fee) while other people with more profitable easily-treated short-term illness and injuries will be dealt with by the private sector - NHS Sickness PLC.

[quote][p][bold]Mr Totterdge Hill[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Mr Totterdge Hill[/bold] wrote:
I can't understand why access to the hospital was shut off... or maybe it was a practice run for things to come?
I had a terrible time trying to get to the hospital for a 1 o'clock appointment this afternoon... WHY?[/p][/quote]'a practice run for things to come' - first get rid of A&E then get rid of it altogether.[/p][/quote]If only this wasn't so true![/p][/quote]Perhaps they are going to privatise illness so that sickness and injury are subject to the discipline of the market place - the elderly and people with loss-making long-term illnesses can be humanely destroyed (for a fee) while other people with more profitable easily-treated short-term illness and injuries will be dealt with by the private sector - NHS Sickness PLC.Undercover Euro Yob

Robert.M wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

No, it would be seen as inflammatory.

[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]No, it would be seen as inflammatory.legiopatrianostra

Robert.M wrote: Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any &quot;Muslim country" to which you allude. I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.

ROTFL. You write "our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" yet have the audacity to have a go at Robert for stating!!

[quote][p][bold]Monty Cristo[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote: Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" to which you allude. I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.[/p][/quote]ROTFL. You write "our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" yet have the audacity to have a go at Robert for stating!!legiopatrianostra

Kadoogan wrote:
Can't find any reference to that cancelled homecoming parade after a quick Google search. Plenty of other towns seem to have held them though, so it is strange ours saw fit not to. Remembrance day always seems to be well observed.

I agree we shouldn't give in to extremists, whether it's those who claim to follow islam or, as it was not so many years ago, those claiming to be catholic under the IRA.

Parade idea rejected over extremist fears

4:31pm Wednesday 27th May 2009 in News By Oliver Evans

Bucks Free Press: Francis Robinson
A CIVIC boss chose not to hold to a homecoming parade for Buckinghamshire armed forces over fears it would attract extremist protesters.

Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton.

There was national outrage when a small group of Muslim protestors held up placards calling 2nd Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment “terrorists” and “butchers”.

Instead the council has held invite-only receptions for armed forces personnel at the judges lodgings at County Hall in Aylesbury.

Yet a Muslim leader said there was no “serious risk” of such a protest happening in the county.

Mr Robinson, who is to retire at next month's council elections, said at the latest reception last night: “The last thing I would want is to see them being denigrated and therefore I am not going to do it.

“It is one of the reasons. It is unfair to bring these guys back, guys who risk their lives, and have these people hollering at them.”

The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county.

“It is not something we need,” Mr Robinson told Bucks Free Press.

Ads by Google
You Could Be Owed £2400
If You've Had A Credit Card You Could Be Owed A Refund
mbna.bankrefunds.net

He said: “I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe.

“I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe.”

It comes ahead of the first national Armed Forces Day on June 27.

This will be launched in Wycombe district with a flag raising ceremony attended by armed forces personnel and veterans at Wycombe District Council.

In a speech to the reception Mr Robinson drew laughs when he said a reason for not having the parade was the speed men marched – as they risked falling on Aylesbury’s cobbles.

After mentioning the role Luton played in his decision he paid tribute to armed forces personnel – mostly RAF – who were invited to the reception.

Flight sergeant Paul O’Connell, 44, from Walters Ash, was among the attendees. He has helped rebuilding efforts in Basra, southern Iraq before the recent British pull out.

Flt Sgt O’Connell, whose sons will both have soon served in Afghanistan, said: “I feel what we were doing there was for the good of the people. I saw a lot of improvements.”

Son Matthew, 22, is in the RAF in Afghanistan and Christopher, 18 is training to be a combat medic and will be posted there soon.

Flt Sgt O’Connell said security had improved. “It is hard for me as a father but I look at it from a service point of view. They are there to do a job,” he said.

The boys’ step-mother, Goril, said: “I don’t worry so much about him, he is a grown man, he can look after himself. I worry about the boys.”

Squadron leader Andrew Harrison, 44, said “control on the ground” is a major objective in Kandahar, Afghanistan, where he recently was posted to install communications.

The Medmenham resident said: “You go out well prepared to operate in that environment but personally I didn’t have major concerns.”

Wife Helen said the hardest part was adjusting to life together after an operation. “You sort of expect them to know everything that’s been going on back home,” she said.

KADOOGAN:- if you go to archives and put in the date 27th May 2009 you wilol see the whole article, I wrote to David Cameron protesting about this the reply I got was
"We're grateful to you for bringing this matter to our attention. However your local council has been democratically elected and you should take this matter up with them as David Cameron cannot interfere with local decision making"
(If that were so H2 would be dead now).
The British Legion remembrance parade in November 2008 was under threat when our local Tory council demanded £3000 for crush barriers, that story too appears in the archives of the Bucks Free Press. It is little wonder we the British feel foreigners in our own country, not because of the people but the actions of the politicians.
I am not being racist, just saying it as it is.

[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote:
Can't find any reference to that cancelled homecoming parade after a quick Google search. Plenty of other towns seem to have held them though, so it is strange ours saw fit not to. Remembrance day always seems to be well observed.
I agree we shouldn't give in to extremists, whether it's those who claim to follow islam or, as it was not so many years ago, those claiming to be catholic under the IRA.[/p][/quote]Parade idea rejected over extremist fears
4:31pm Wednesday 27th May 2009 in News By Oliver Evans
Bucks Free Press: Francis Robinson
A CIVIC boss chose not to hold to a homecoming parade for Buckinghamshire armed forces over fears it would attract extremist protesters.
Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton.
There was national outrage when a small group of Muslim protestors held up placards calling 2nd Battalion Royal Anglian Regiment “terrorists” and “butchers”.
Instead the council has held invite-only receptions for armed forces personnel at the judges lodgings at County Hall in Aylesbury.
Yet a Muslim leader said there was no “serious risk” of such a protest happening in the county.
Mr Robinson, who is to retire at next month's council elections, said at the latest reception last night: “The last thing I would want is to see them being denigrated and therefore I am not going to do it.
“It is one of the reasons. It is unfair to bring these guys back, guys who risk their lives, and have these people hollering at them.”
The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county.
“It is not something we need,” Mr Robinson told Bucks Free Press.
Ads by Google
You Could Be Owed £2400
If You've Had A Credit Card You Could Be Owed A Refund
mbna.bankrefunds.net
Heat Pumps: Stunning Deal
Pay £6499 For 9kW Heat Pump & Get £2661 pa For 7 Years. Get Info.
ecovisionsystems.co.
uk/HeatPumps
Yet Chauhdry Shafique, chairman of Wycombe based Council for Christian Muslim Relations, questioned the decision.
He said: “I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe.
“I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe.”
It comes ahead of the first national Armed Forces Day on June 27.
This will be launched in Wycombe district with a flag raising ceremony attended by armed forces personnel and veterans at Wycombe District Council.
In a speech to the reception Mr Robinson drew laughs when he said a reason for not having the parade was the speed men marched – as they risked falling on Aylesbury’s cobbles.
After mentioning the role Luton played in his decision he paid tribute to armed forces personnel – mostly RAF – who were invited to the reception.
Flight sergeant Paul O’Connell, 44, from Walters Ash, was among the attendees. He has helped rebuilding efforts in Basra, southern Iraq before the recent British pull out.
Flt Sgt O’Connell, whose sons will both have soon served in Afghanistan, said: “I feel what we were doing there was for the good of the people. I saw a lot of improvements.”
Son Matthew, 22, is in the RAF in Afghanistan and Christopher, 18 is training to be a combat medic and will be posted there soon.
Flt Sgt O’Connell said security had improved. “It is hard for me as a father but I look at it from a service point of view. They are there to do a job,” he said.
The boys’ step-mother, Goril, said: “I don’t worry so much about him, he is a grown man, he can look after himself. I worry about the boys.”
Squadron leader Andrew Harrison, 44, said “control on the ground” is a major objective in Kandahar, Afghanistan, where he recently was posted to install communications.
The Medmenham resident said: “You go out well prepared to operate in that environment but personally I didn’t have major concerns.”
Wife Helen said the hardest part was adjusting to life together after an operation. “You sort of expect them to know everything that’s been going on back home,” she said.
KADOOGAN:- if you go to archives and put in the date 27th May 2009 you wilol see the whole article, I wrote to David Cameron protesting about this the reply I got was
"We're grateful to you for bringing this matter to our attention. However your local council has been democratically elected and you should take this matter up with them as David Cameron cannot interfere with local decision making"
(If that were so H2 would be dead now).
The British Legion remembrance parade in November 2008 was under threat when our local Tory council demanded £3000 for crush barriers, that story too appears in the archives of the Bucks Free Press. It is little wonder we the British feel foreigners in our own country, not because of the people but the actions of the politicians.
I am not being racist, just saying it as it is.M40

When looking for stories from local newspapers go to archives and put in a date or a range of dates to find stories.

I still have my copy from this stories date so all I needed was 27th May 2009 to get it.
I imagine the Remembrance Day story would appear in the Oct/Nov range for 2008.

Please Note
When looking for stories from local newspapers go to archives and put in a date or a range of dates to find stories.
I still have my copy from this stories date so all I needed was 27th May 2009 to get it.
I imagine the Remembrance Day story would appear in the Oct/Nov range for 2008.M40

Sorry, above I mentioned £3000 for crush barriers it was just £1900.
Link: http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/364
9051.Remembrance_day
_parade__under_threa
t_/
or go to archive at bottom of the page and put in the date of the story (5th Sept 2008)

Sorry, above I mentioned £3000 for crush barriers it was just £1900.
Link: http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/364
9051.Remembrance_day
_parade__under_threa
t_/
or go to archive at bottom of the page and put in the date of the story (5th Sept 2008)M40

I am a follower of Christ and I find many of the comments on this news story absolutely disgusting. I would like to wish all of my Muslim brothers and sisters a joyous celebration on the birth of your prophet. May I also remind some of you commenters that we have annual gatherings in the town centre on St George's Day and at Easter where much of the town is closed. Spread the love and peace.

I am a follower of Christ and I find many of the comments on this news story absolutely disgusting. I would like to wish all of my Muslim brothers and sisters a joyous celebration on the birth of your prophet. May I also remind some of you commenters that we have annual gatherings in the town centre on St George's Day and at Easter where much of the town is closed. Spread the love and peace.bennyfromtheblock

i have no issues with the parade, i do have issues with a private security firm blocking my road off, and not receiving any warning in advance. No notes through the letter box, no signs taped to lamp posts, nothing in this news paper.

i have no issues with the parade, i do have issues with a private security firm blocking my road off, and not receiving any warning in advance. No notes through the letter box, no signs taped to lamp posts, nothing in this news paper.fishyfingerz

As an atheist, personally reading the back and forth or why did they get this and why don't we ever get that is more than a little childish. my personal belief is that every and all religions are a bad idea but that this was a loud and peaceful walk through town i found completely inoffensive . what does offend are the almost instance religious backlash from all sides. to be fair i didn't know it was a planned event until i was standing in the middle of it but then i just watched it as it walked and sang its way past me. That there was a security presence goes more to show that there is an over hanging feeling a resentment and aggression which is hardly surprising when you look at the distinct ethnic/religious divide within high Wycombe. when i saw the security i was not worried that the 200+ attendees where going to start burning the shops down but that a group of BNP morons would turn up.

People are always so ready to jump down the throats of someone who thinks differently, I don't mind a person having faith but what does irritate me is when people think they have a right to belittle and degrade someone who doesn't think like them. at the end of the day the worst thing to happen as a result of this is a few road closures for 10 minutes and some loud noises. that people FELT that its wasn't right is a matter of opinion and frankly why should anyone care what ANYONE'S opinion is!? its an opinion its not a fact. so perhaps the lesson that everyone should take its. Get over yourself.??

As an atheist, personally reading the back and forth or why did they get this and why don't we ever get that is more than a little childish. my personal belief is that every and all religions are a bad idea but that this was a loud and peaceful walk through town i found completely inoffensive . what does offend are the almost instance religious backlash from all sides. to be fair i didn't know it was a planned event until i was standing in the middle of it but then i just watched it as it walked and sang its way past me. That there was a security presence goes more to show that there is an over hanging feeling a resentment and aggression which is hardly surprising when you look at the distinct ethnic/religious divide within high Wycombe. when i saw the security i was not worried that the 200+ attendees where going to start burning the shops down but that a group of BNP morons would turn up.
People are always so ready to jump down the throats of someone who thinks differently, I don't mind a person having faith but what does irritate me is when people think they have a right to belittle and degrade someone who doesn't think like them. at the end of the day the worst thing to happen as a result of this is a few road closures for 10 minutes and some loud noises. that people FELT that its wasn't right is a matter of opinion and frankly why should anyone care what ANYONE'S opinion is!? its an opinion its not a fact. so perhaps the lesson that everyone should take its. Get over yourself.??Gchampion22

England must be saved wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

More accurately, should that read 'The &quot;male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?

I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.

Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.

Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.

Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.

If my memory serves me correctly women muslims worship in a separate part of the mosque than the men. There were also hundreds of women on the march, I saw it pass by and it was a lovely and surprising spectacle to see. Shame there are so many racists in Wycombe spouting the usual 'us and them' crap. Stick your TV back on and go watch 'Benefit Street' so you can moan about some other cultures...

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]England must be saved[/bold] wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?
I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.[/p][/quote]Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.
Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.
Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.[/p][/quote]If my memory serves me correctly women muslims worship in a separate part of the mosque than the men. There were also hundreds of women on the march, I saw it pass by and it was a lovely and surprising spectacle to see. Shame there are so many racists in Wycombe spouting the usual 'us and them' crap. Stick your TV back on and go watch 'Benefit Street' so you can moan about some other cultures...allistur

bennyfromtheblock wrote:
I am a follower of Christ and I find many of the comments on this news story absolutely disgusting. I would like to wish all of my Muslim brothers and sisters a joyous celebration on the birth of your prophet. May I also remind some of you commenters that we have annual gatherings in the town centre on St George's Day and at Easter where much of the town is closed. Spread the love and peace.

What we may find even more disgusting (and disturbing) is that quite a few followers of Christ apparently believe that anyone, who doesn't believe in what they believe in , will be punished in the most indescribably dreadful and painfully excruciating ways and tortured that way for all eternity. For ever and ever.
.
But apparently only after they are dead , it would appear.
.
Doesn't sound very nice at all. Especially when all a lot of folk just carry on in the way their parents/ancestors/co
mmunities did or do. It's a funny old world , is it not ?
.

[quote][p][bold]bennyfromtheblock[/bold] wrote:
I am a follower of Christ and I find many of the comments on this news story absolutely disgusting. I would like to wish all of my Muslim brothers and sisters a joyous celebration on the birth of your prophet. May I also remind some of you commenters that we have annual gatherings in the town centre on St George's Day and at Easter where much of the town is closed. Spread the love and peace.[/p][/quote]What we may find even more disgusting (and disturbing) is that quite a few followers of Christ apparently believe that anyone, who doesn't believe in what they believe in , will be punished in the most indescribably dreadful and painfully excruciating ways and tortured that way for all eternity. For ever and ever.
.
But apparently only after they are dead , it would appear.
.
Doesn't sound very nice at all. Especially when all a lot of folk just carry on in the way their parents/ancestors/co
mmunities did or do. It's a funny old world , is it not ?
.J B Blackett

Robert.M wrote: Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any &quot;Muslim country" to which you allude. I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.

ROTFL. You write "our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" yet have the audacity to have a go at Robert for stating!!

Unlike you, I interpreted Robert's post as meaning "why should we allow the Muslims what they want if Muslim countries don't allow Christians what they want?".
And "why should Muslims get what they want again?"

As such, I did not think that Robert illustrated willingness to allow it.

My previous answer was a reaction to that interpretation.
If that interpretation was incorrect then I retract it.

[quote][p][bold]legiopatrianostra[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Monty Cristo[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote: Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]One might argue that our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" to which you allude. I also detect a somewhat anti-Muslim tone to your post. Which arguably makes you somewhat bigoted.[/p][/quote]ROTFL. You write "our willingness to allow this makes us a far, far better country than any "Muslim country" yet have the audacity to have a go at Robert for stating!![/p][/quote]Unlike you, I interpreted Robert's post as meaning "why should we allow the Muslims what they want if Muslim countries don't allow Christians what they want?".
And "why should Muslims get what they want again?"
As such, I did not think that Robert illustrated willingness to allow it.
My previous answer was a reaction to that interpretation.
If that interpretation was incorrect then I retract it.Monty Cristo

Robert.M wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided

[quote][p][bold]legiopatrianostra[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Wonder if Christians would be allowed a rally like this in a Muslim country, highly unlikely, yet another display of Wycombe Muslims getting what they want, there was no pre warning of this parade in the free press or anywhere else, very one sided[/p][/quote]No, it would be seen as inflammatory.[/p][/quote]ahem.....
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/
just saying.....OctoberW

Kadoogan wrote:
As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?

I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.

sorry, I meant to 'ahem! ' on this quote, not the one above...

http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/104

29428.Church_groups_

combine_to_show_they

_Love_Wycombe/

[quote][p][bold]Kadoogan[/bold] wrote:
As there are many christian churches in muslim-dominated countries, they may well be able to hold such a procession. Wonder if anyone here has experience of trying to do such a thing?
I'm sure christians would be allowed to hold an event in Wycombe that would involve closing roads. Has anyone commenting here tried to do organise one and been told it wouldn't be welcome? Perhaps the reason it doesn't happen is because no-one tries to do it.[/p][/quote]sorry, I meant to 'ahem! ' on this quote, not the one above...
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/OctoberW

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.Niqe15

England must be saved wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

More accurately, should that read 'The &quot;male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.

Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?

I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.

Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.

Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.

Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.

If my memory serves me correctly women muslims worship in a separate part of the mosque than the men. There were also hundreds of women on the march, I saw it pass by and it was a lovely and surprising spectacle to see. Shame there are so many racists in Wycombe spouting the usual 'us and them' crap. Stick your TV back on and go watch 'Benefit Street' so you can moan about some other cultures...

Apologies if there were women in the march - I didn't see the march itself - I was relying on the photos.

I was told (by a Muslim woman - if I understood her correctly) that women did not go to Mosque they had something that sounded like n'maaz which was a name for private prayer - according to:

http://www.islamawar
eness.net/Mosque/mos
que_fatwa003.html

and:

http://atschool.eduw
eb.co.uk/carolrb/isl
am/mosques.html

women in mosques is a debated subject but there does not seem to be a ban on them. (Still seems a bit of a boy religion rather an a girl one - that is not dig at Islam as it applies in spades to Roman Catholicism.)

[quote][p][bold]allistur[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]England must be saved[/bold] wrote:
uote: The Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
More accurately, should that read 'The "male" Muslim population of High Wycombe united as thousands joined the procession to mark the birth of the Prophet Muhammad.
Hardly representative of 'the muslim population' then or are muslim females not allowed to attend? ... and if that is the case, then it's discriminatory and future marches should be banned. Isn't that the law?
I can only see one female in all of the pictures and she appears to be white, Anglo Saxon.[/p][/quote]Actually there is a woman in a white head scarf in the same photo but obviously that does not disprove what you say.
Correct me if I am wrong but Muslim women don't pray in Mosque either - they pray privately at home.
Bit of a religion for boys rather than girls.[/p][/quote]If my memory serves me correctly women muslims worship in a separate part of the mosque than the men. There were also hundreds of women on the march, I saw it pass by and it was a lovely and surprising spectacle to see. Shame there are so many racists in Wycombe spouting the usual 'us and them' crap. Stick your TV back on and go watch 'Benefit Street' so you can moan about some other cultures...[/p][/quote]Apologies if there were women in the march - I didn't see the march itself - I was relying on the photos.
I was told (by a Muslim woman - if I understood her correctly) that women did not go to Mosque they had something that sounded like n'maaz which was a name for private prayer - according to:
http://www.islamawar
eness.net/Mosque/mos
que_fatwa003.html
and:
http://atschool.eduw
eb.co.uk/carolrb/isl
am/mosques.html
women in mosques is a debated subject but there does not seem to be a ban on them. (Still seems a bit of a boy religion rather an a girl one - that is not dig at Islam as it applies in spades to Roman Catholicism.)Undercover Euro Yob

I can see so many negative comments from racists on this article.. this time the media do a positive story about the muslims (for once) and there are still racist comments... if you have nothing nice to say then keep your mouth shut! It really annoys me when uneducated scums stereotype and hate! Create peace and unite not spread hate and divide!

I can see so many negative comments from racists on this article.. this time the media do a positive story about the muslims (for once) and there are still racist comments... if you have nothing nice to say then keep your mouth shut! It really annoys me when uneducated scums stereotype and hate! Create peace and unite not spread hate and divide!Drummer-12

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

"Moonpanda" nice username it matches you as you have the same brain as a panda ... youe clearly a racist.. for yoir information they did the march on Sunday morning as this is the least busiest day of the week.. not to "annoy you"... and also the roads were only closed for a maximum for 30 mins each only for them to pass by..please go get educated. Thanks

[quote][p][bold]Niqe15[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.[/p][/quote]"Moonpanda" nice username it matches you as you have the same brain as a panda ... youe clearly a racist.. for yoir information they did the march on Sunday morning as this is the least busiest day of the week.. not to "annoy you"... and also the roads were only closed for a maximum for 30 mins each only for them to pass by..please go get educated. ThanksDrummer-12

Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.Robert.M

Organised religion is an incredibly antiquated and draconian concept. Invariably a social construct that feeds into the fears of the masses, i.e; death/existentialism
.

The Abrahamic ‘divine’ scriptures are exceptionally vivid/explicit in describing the punishments of Hell; unimaginable torture times infinity - ad infinitum (just for good measure your skin thickness is increased to accommodate extra nerve cells to intensify the pain??) – where is the justice and logic in this? The religious deflect/shirk away from this question.

Interestingly, you are prohibited from certain evil/immoral actions in this world (fornication, consuming alcohol) BUT, it is permissible to unabatedly participate in these ‘illicit’ activities in heaven (interestingly these are two of the ‘key’ incentives to be ‘moral’)– somewhat contradictory.

How can it be that something so determinent on the demography; geographical origin of your ancestors decides your eternal destination. 99.9% of people will remain in the religion of their forefathers. Take it life is just a gigantic lottery - apologies to the losers :(

The ignorance of people in this day and age astounds me, clutching on to a tribal(backward) mentality – We live in the information age – facts are readily available – don’t believe something because you were born into it or because you hear persuasive rhetoric – utilise some of the 100 billion(100,000,000,
000) neurons, interconnected via trillions (5,000,000,000,000) of synapses that constitute your brain.

Organised religion is an incredibly antiquated and draconian concept. Invariably a social construct that feeds into the fears of the masses, i.e; death/existentialism
.
The Abrahamic ‘divine’ scriptures are exceptionally vivid/explicit in describing the punishments of Hell; unimaginable torture times infinity - ad infinitum (just for good measure your skin thickness is increased to accommodate extra nerve cells to intensify the pain??) – where is the justice and logic in this? The religious deflect/shirk away from this question.
Interestingly, you are prohibited from certain evil/immoral actions in this world (fornication, consuming alcohol) BUT, it is permissible to unabatedly participate in these ‘illicit’ activities in heaven (interestingly these are two of the ‘key’ incentives to be ‘moral’)– somewhat contradictory.
How can it be that something so determinent on the demography; geographical origin of your ancestors decides your eternal destination. 99.9% of people will remain in the religion of their forefathers. Take it life is just a gigantic lottery - apologies to the losers :(
The ignorance of people in this day and age astounds me, clutching on to a tribal(backward) mentality – We live in the information age – facts are readily available – don’t believe something because you were born into it or because you hear persuasive rhetoric – utilise some of the 100 billion(100,000,000,
000) neurons, interconnected via trillions (5,000,000,000,000) of synapses that constitute your brain.Existenz

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....Wycombe-buddy

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?

[quote][p][bold]Wycombe-buddy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....[/p][/quote]You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?frackellgirl

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - &quot;It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?

One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims & you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified & UKBA approved Licence holders !!!

[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wycombe-buddy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....[/p][/quote]You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?[/p][/quote]One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims & you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.
Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified & UKBA approved Licence holders !!!121Truth

People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at "The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!!

People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at "The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!!121Truth

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - &quot;It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?

One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims &amp; you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified &amp; UKBA approved Licence holders !!!

Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.

[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wycombe-buddy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....[/p][/quote]You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?[/p][/quote]One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims & you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.
Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified & UKBA approved Licence holders !!![/p][/quote]Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.frackellgirl

''FRACKELL GIRL'' why don't you just say your a racist and you don't like Muslims? as you have started this debate ; there have been many extremists setting mosques on fire ( recent arson attacks across the country , you must have seen this in the media (September - December)...a mosque caretaker was also attacked in Luton, Pigs heads have been left outside mosques across the country.. and yet the ''MUSLIMS'' are extremists? To be honest there is good and bad in every religion, for example we have the EDL here who are VERY violent, cause fights, riots, loot, chant racist abuse, they hold protests and vandalise buildings and cars, which means over 1200 police officers at one of their larger protests which is costing US as tax payers. OK now no Muslim has ever through rocks through church windows or set fire to churches, as Islam is about peace and nothing else, they did not attack priests.. Oh yeah some extremists have also set fire to the holy Qu'ran however no Muslim as ever burnt a bible. Who is the extremist now? I really did not want to bring all this up but I feel I have to, as Muslims are always thought to be the extremists when in fact they are not. So can I please kindly ask you to stop commenting nonsense on here. We must all stand together and unite to stop all this hatred and division, as the younger generation will see us growing and hating someone because of their religion it will just continue. :)

''FRACKELL GIRL'' why don't you just say your a racist and you don't like Muslims? as you have started this debate ; there have been many extremists setting mosques on fire ( recent arson attacks across the country , you must have seen this in the media (September - December)...a mosque caretaker was also attacked in Luton, Pigs heads have been left outside mosques across the country.. and yet the ''MUSLIMS'' are extremists? To be honest there is good and bad in every religion, for example we have the EDL here who are VERY violent, cause fights, riots, loot, chant racist abuse, they hold protests and vandalise buildings and cars, which means over 1200 police officers at one of their larger protests which is costing US as tax payers. OK now no Muslim has ever through rocks through church windows or set fire to churches, as Islam is about peace and nothing else, they did not attack priests.. Oh yeah some extremists have also set fire to the holy Qu'ran however no Muslim as ever burnt a bible. Who is the extremist now? I really did not want to bring all this up but I feel I have to, as Muslims are always thought to be the extremists when in fact they are not. So can I please kindly ask you to stop commenting nonsense on here. We must all stand together and unite to stop all this hatred and division, as the younger generation will see us growing and hating someone because of their religion it will just continue. :)thetruth134

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

It was more of a birthday party for the Muslim prophet rather than a: 'type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason'.

This is just my view but all religious belief is based on ‘faith’ - you can’t prove there is a God so their faith is no more based on ‘ignorance’ than Christianity is.

If you are saying their religious beliefs are a recent and perhaps still foreign-seeming part of British society then fair enough, but there has always been change in our society - Wycombe was one of the earliest sites of the Protestant attack on Roman Catholicism before the English Reformation, and before the war there were letters in the BFP about Welsh miners coming to this locality for work, in the aftermath of the collapse of the South Wales coal and steel industries following the First World War.

There are Muslims in HW today and as far as I am concerned I don't feel I am having 'war' waged against me if they want to wish their prophet a Happy Birthday. I make no secret of the fact that I don't share their beliefs with the Muslims I know and we respect each other’s opinions. (BTW I don't remember there being any protests by Muslims about the town centre being shut down completely to celebrate the birthday of our prophet on 25 December and I have never seen so many white faces in ‘Chicken Cottage’ on Frogmoor as on Christmas Day.)

Sorry but what you're saying is change is good/acceptable simply because it's change.

To me that really isn't a rational argument.

Yes I do think Christianity is equally pathetic as a serious attempt to understand the world. As a society have moved away from religious and dogmatic thought. We should be proud of that achievement.

.

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]It was more of a birthday party for the Muslim prophet rather than a: [italic] 'type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason'.[/italic]
This is just my view but all religious belief is based on ‘faith’ - you can’t [italic] prove [/italic] there is a God so their faith is no more based on ‘ignorance’ than Christianity is.
If you are saying their religious beliefs are a recent and perhaps still foreign-seeming part of British society then fair enough, but there has always been change in our society - Wycombe was one of the earliest sites of the Protestant attack on Roman Catholicism before the English Reformation, and before the war there were letters in the BFP about Welsh miners coming to this locality for work, in the aftermath of the collapse of the South Wales coal and steel industries following the First World War.
There [italic] are[/italic] Muslims in HW today and as far as I am concerned I don't feel I am having 'war' waged against me if they want to wish their prophet a Happy Birthday. I make no secret of the fact that I don't share their beliefs with the Muslims I know and we respect each other’s opinions. (BTW I don't remember there being any protests by Muslims about the town centre being shut down completely to celebrate the birthday of [italic] our[/italic] prophet on 25 December and I have never seen so many white faces in ‘Chicken Cottage’ on Frogmoor as on Christmas Day.)[/p][/quote]Sorry but what you're saying is change is good/acceptable simply because it's change.
To me that really isn't a rational argument.
Yes I do think Christianity is equally pathetic as a serious attempt to understand the world. As a society have moved away from religious and dogmatic thought. We should be proud of that achievement.
.Moonpanda

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.

There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?

[quote][p][bold]Niqe15[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.[/p][/quote]No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.
There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?Moonpanda

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

&quot;Moonpanda" nice username it matches you as you have the same brain as a panda ... youe clearly a racist.. for yoir information they did the march on Sunday morning as this is the least busiest day of the week.. not to "annoy you"... and also the roads were only closed for a maximum for 30 mins each only for them to pass by..please go get educated. Thanks

That's a very inventive ad hominem attack, but still just an ad hominem.

If you want to have these marches you do it by consent. That's how you create cohesion and prevent resentment between groups.

[quote][p][bold]Drummer-12[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Niqe15[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.[/p][/quote]"Moonpanda" nice username it matches you as you have the same brain as a panda ... youe clearly a racist.. for yoir information they did the march on Sunday morning as this is the least busiest day of the week.. not to "annoy you"... and also the roads were only closed for a maximum for 30 mins each only for them to pass by..please go get educated. Thanks[/p][/quote]That's a very inventive ad hominem attack, but still just an ad hominem.
If you want to have these marches you do it by consent. That's how you create cohesion and prevent resentment between groups.Moonpanda

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.

There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?

Dear Panda
Majority of British call themselves christians & every sunday churches are empty.
On the other hand Muslims are in minority, there Mosques are overcrowded & expanding everyday.
Have you ever wonder WHY ?
They are not forcing anyone to come and join them, White British people are converting to Islam, There Must be something not right with their own belief thats why they are choosing Islam.
Britain is a christian country Why not you campaign through church that Govt should implement Biblical law ;)

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Niqe15[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.[/p][/quote]No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.
There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?[/p][/quote]Dear Panda
Majority of British call themselves christians & every sunday churches are empty.
On the other hand Muslims are in minority, there Mosques are overcrowded & expanding everyday.
Have you ever wonder WHY ?
They are not forcing anyone to come and join them, White British people are converting to Islam, There Must be something not right with their own belief thats why they are choosing Islam.
Britain is a christian country Why not you campaign through church that Govt should implement Biblical law ;)121Truth

Moonpanda wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.

No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.

There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?

Dear Panda
Majority of British call themselves christians &amp; every sunday churches are empty.
On the other hand Muslims are in minority, there Mosques are overcrowded &amp; expanding everyday.
Have you ever wonder WHY ?
They are not forcing anyone to come and join them, White British people are converting to Islam, There Must be something not right with their own belief thats why they are choosing Islam.
Britain is a christian country Why not you campaign through church that Govt should implement Biblical law ;)

I do not accept the majority are Christian, most are atheistic/humanists though they follow some Christian names for festivals like Christmas and Easter. Please don't be disingenuous as I would like a honest discussion.

A few people here and there will follow other religions, they do with things like Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism even quite a few Hare Krishnas and Hindus. Using these people to make any kind of argument is weak, plus they are usually quite mentally unstable people if we're honest, so not really much to be proud of.

[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Niqe15[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
This type of worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.[/p][/quote]You are one seriously deranged individual if you construe a celebratory procession marking the Birth of the Holy Prophet peace be upon him as a flagrant stunt to insult people of different faiths- your remarks are intolerant and tantamount prejudice against Muslims practising their faith.[/p][/quote]No it's simply that I don't like Islam because I don't believe it to be anything like an optimal ideology for humans to follow. That not because of what Muslim do but because of the religion itself and the Quran.
There's no law against that yet. It is my sincere opinion and one that if you asked most people in this country, they'd agree with. Why aren't our considerations being taken into account when it comes to the future direction of this country?[/p][/quote]Dear Panda
Majority of British call themselves christians & every sunday churches are empty.
On the other hand Muslims are in minority, there Mosques are overcrowded & expanding everyday.
Have you ever wonder WHY ?
They are not forcing anyone to come and join them, White British people are converting to Islam, There Must be something not right with their own belief thats why they are choosing Islam.
Britain is a christian country Why not you campaign through church that Govt should implement Biblical law ;)[/p][/quote]I do not accept the majority are Christian, most are atheistic/humanists though they follow some Christian names for festivals like Christmas and Easter. Please don't be disingenuous as I would like a honest discussion.
A few people here and there will follow other religions, they do with things like Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism even quite a few Hare Krishnas and Hindus. Using these people to make any kind of argument is weak, plus they are usually quite mentally unstable people if we're honest, so not really much to be proud of.Moonpanda

Thank You BFP for Highlighting the function of Asian & Muslim community of High Wycombe who are over 30% (15k-20k) of HW population. They must be Privileged coz of this article. It does not matter even if you give them 0.1% coverage on BFP.
And I am also Grateful to those who Love to hate Asian & Muslim community making it most commented post.
Respect,Peace & Love to All

Thank You BFP for Highlighting the function of Asian & Muslim community of High Wycombe who are over 30% (15k-20k) of HW population. They must be Privileged coz of this article. It does not matter even if you give them 0.1% coverage on BFP.
And I am also Grateful to those who Love to hate Asian & Muslim community making it most commented post.
Respect,Peace & Love to All121Truth

Moonpanda wrote:
Oh and the reason they are expanding? Immigration and child indoctrination accounts for 99.99% of it.

oh that's why they're expanding ! what english people follow china's one baby law or they can't make more babies or they can't look after & take responsibilities.
Didn't British Govt tried to expand their own kind by opening gates for eastern europeans & Now fellow Romanian Bulgarians. Millions of EU citizens are getting into britain and **cking it & sadly no one talk about them. If you ONLY close down asian takeaways Govt will fell to its knees
There are minimum 1 Million Polish from the homeland of late Pope & churches are still empty.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
Oh and the reason they are expanding? Immigration and child indoctrination accounts for 99.99% of it.[/p][/quote]oh that's why they're expanding ! what english people follow china's one baby law or they can't make more babies or they can't look after & take responsibilities.
Didn't British Govt tried to expand their own kind by opening gates for eastern europeans & Now fellow Romanian Bulgarians. Millions of EU citizens are getting into britain and **cking it & sadly no one talk about them. If you ONLY close down asian takeaways Govt will fell to its knees
There are minimum 1 Million Polish from the homeland of late Pope & churches are still empty.121Truth

Personally i'd rather be a little bit poorer than see some kind of dangerous transition to a part Islamic society going on. We could manage without you don't worry.

There's a lot of talk about Romanian and Bulgarians/ Eastern European actually. The concern is economic and whether we have enough space. Some things are more important than money though, and i'd much rather have people of European culture coming here than Islamic.

I don't wish harm to Muslims but at the same time I don't want to see my country become any more Islamic than it already is or see interference from Muslims who are here without our consent.

Personally i'd rather be a little bit poorer than see some kind of dangerous transition to a part Islamic society going on. We could manage without you don't worry.
There's a lot of talk about Romanian and Bulgarians/ Eastern European actually. The concern is economic and whether we have enough space. Some things are more important than money though, and i'd much rather have people of European culture coming here than Islamic.
I don't wish harm to Muslims but at the same time I don't want to see my country become any more Islamic than it already is or see interference from Muslims who are here without our consent.Moonpanda

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - &quot;It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?

One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims &amp; you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified &amp; UKBA approved Licence holders !!!

Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.

‘Frackellgirl’ - the impression I get at times here is that you and some other posters are determined to be hard-done-by over this parade if not for one reason then for another - first of all Wycombe Muslims were:

… privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year …
And ‘HASAN786’ pointed out that the Prophet’s birthday is only celebrated once a year. (Hasan does not say so but this is bafflingly reasonable as even prophets don’t get born ‘several times’.)

You say: ’Not only were there road closures but also music &quot;blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?’’
And Wycombe-buddy says (in reply to a soul apparently like yourself - ‘Robert.M’):
‘ the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency.’

You ask: ‘ Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. ’
And ‘OctoberW ’ refers you to a report of a well-attended Christian celebration within the last twelve months on:

http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/104

29428.Church_groups_

combine_to_show_they

_Love_Wycombe/

Finally you ask:
‘ Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists. ’

‘Frackellgirl’ you have said at least three times that it was wrong to cancel a homecoming parade for our soldiers in 2009 and lastly you have said people who express disagreement with you here are missing the point and asked ‘121Truth’:
‘ … why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade. ’
This sounds very much as if you feel the military parade cancelled five years ago is a sort of unanswerable trump card in your disagreement with the parade on Sunday, and that the Sunday parade should have been cancelled in a sort of tit-for-tat spirit, although to my knowledge there was no involvement by Wycombe Muslims in the disruption of the Luton Homecoming parade and the one at Aylesbury was cancelled by an older white man from Missenden, who had served in the armed forces, Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson.
The impression one got from the BFP report at the time was that the decision to cancel the homecoming parade was taken by Mr Robinson largely on his own judgement perhaps for unsound but good motives - the report in the BFP at the time said: ‘… Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton. … The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county. “It is not something we need,” This is a bit like giving a dog a bad name before hanging him - Wycombe Muslims have not misbehaved themselves towards soldiers to the best of my knowledge and Mr Robinson’s decision was disagreed with at the time by Chauhdry Shafique, chairman of the Wycombe Council for Christian Muslim Relations, who said: “I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe … I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe.

You also say to ‘121Truth’: ‘Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion’
And it is true to say that he has called you an unavowed racist challenging you to admit you don’t like Muslims.
I wonder what would happen if ‘121Truth’ were to agree with you that it is unacceptable and insultingly disrespectful to our soldiers to prevent them marching through Aylesbury and withdraw the suggestion that you are an undercover racist - would you agree to withdraw your accusation that he was insulting and rude, and express your respect for Muslims - or (as he suggests) is the umbrage you have taken over the march on Sunday simply a justification for dislike of people in town who are different to yourself?
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/440
0554.Parade_idea_rej
ected_over_extremist
_fears/
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/364
9051.Remembrance_day
_parade__under_threa
t_/?ref=ar
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/

[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wycombe-buddy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....[/p][/quote]You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?[/p][/quote]One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims & you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.
Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified & UKBA approved Licence holders !!![/p][/quote]Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.[/p][/quote]‘Frackellgirl’ - the impression I get at times here is that you and some other posters are determined to be hard-done-by over this parade if not for one reason then for another - first of all Wycombe Muslims were:
[italic] … privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year … [/italic]
And ‘HASAN786’ pointed out that the Prophet’s birthday is only celebrated once a year. (Hasan does not say so but this is bafflingly reasonable as even prophets don’t get born ‘several times’.)
You say: [italic]’Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?’[/italic]’
And Wycombe-buddy says (in reply to a soul apparently like yourself - ‘Robert.M’):
‘[italic] the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency.’ [/italic]
You ask: ‘[italic] Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. [/italic]’
And ‘OctoberW ’ refers you to a report of a well-attended Christian celebration within the last twelve months on:
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/
Finally you ask:
‘[italic] Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists. [/italic]’
‘Frackellgirl’ you have said at least three times that it was wrong to cancel a homecoming parade for our soldiers in 2009 and lastly you have said people who express disagreement with you here are missing the point and asked ‘121Truth’:
‘[italic] … why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade. [/italic]’
This sounds very much as if you feel the military parade cancelled five years ago is a sort of unanswerable trump card in your disagreement with the parade on Sunday, and that the Sunday parade should have been cancelled in a sort of tit-for-tat spirit, although to my knowledge there was no involvement by Wycombe Muslims in the disruption of the Luton Homecoming parade and the one at Aylesbury was cancelled by an older white man from Missenden, who had served in the armed forces, Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson.
The impression one got from the BFP report at the time was that the decision to cancel the homecoming parade was taken by Mr Robinson largely on his own judgement perhaps for unsound but good motives - the report in the BFP at the time said: [italic] ‘… Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton. … The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county. “It is not something we need,” [/italic] This is a bit like giving a dog a bad name before hanging him - Wycombe Muslims have not misbehaved themselves towards soldiers to the best of my knowledge and Mr Robinson’s decision was disagreed with at the time by Chauhdry Shafique, chairman of the Wycombe Council for Christian Muslim Relations, who said: [italic]“I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe … I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe. [/italic]
You also say to ‘121Truth’:
[italic] ‘Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion’ [/italic]
And it is true to say that he has called you an unavowed racist challenging you to admit you don’t like Muslims.
I wonder what would happen if ‘121Truth’ were to agree with you that it is unacceptable and insultingly disrespectful to our soldiers to prevent them marching through Aylesbury and withdraw the suggestion that you are an undercover racist - would you agree to withdraw your accusation that he was insulting and rude, and express your respect for Muslims - or (as he suggests) is the umbrage you have taken over the march on Sunday simply a justification for dislike of people in town who are different to yourself?
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/440
0554.Parade_idea_rej
ected_over_extremist
_fears/
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/364
9051.Remembrance_day
_parade__under_threa
t_/?ref=ar
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/Undercover Euro Yob

Moonpanda wrote:
Personally i'd rather be a little bit poorer than see some kind of dangerous transition to a part Islamic society going on. We could manage without you don't worry.

There's a lot of talk about Romanian and Bulgarians/ Eastern European actually. The concern is economic and whether we have enough space. Some things are more important than money though, and i'd much rather have people of European culture coming here than Islamic.

I don't wish harm to Muslims but at the same time I don't want to see my country become any more Islamic than it already is or see interference from Muslims who are here without our consent.

Muslims are no more 'here without our consent' than the Romanians who were recently subjected to vilification in the right-wing press.

I don't feel anything I have anything more in common with 'European' Romanians and Bulgarians than I do with Asian Brits and I suspect if there were no Asian Muslims here we would have prejudice against someone else - ask any Irishman over the age of 60 or the few surviving Poles who came here after the War.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
Personally i'd rather be a little bit poorer than see some kind of dangerous transition to a part Islamic society going on. We could manage without you don't worry.
There's a lot of talk about Romanian and Bulgarians/ Eastern European actually. The concern is economic and whether we have enough space. Some things are more important than money though, and i'd much rather have people of European culture coming here than Islamic.
I don't wish harm to Muslims but at the same time I don't want to see my country become any more Islamic than it already is or see interference from Muslims who are here without our consent.[/p][/quote]Muslims are no more 'here without our consent' than the Romanians who were recently subjected to vilification in the right-wing press.
I don't feel anything I have anything more in common with 'European' Romanians and Bulgarians than I do with Asian Brits and I suspect if there were no Asian Muslims here we would have prejudice against someone else - ask any Irishman over the age of 60 or the few surviving Poles who came here after the War.Undercover Euro Yob

121Truth wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at &quot;The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!!

I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case weren’tin the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’!

[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at "The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!![/p][/quote]I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case [italic] weren’t[/italic]in the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’!Undercover Euro Yob

121Truth wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at &quot;The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!!

I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case weren’tin the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’!

*in that case they weren’t in the parade*

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at "The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!![/p][/quote]I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case [italic] weren’t[/italic]in the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’![/p][/quote]*in that case [italic]they weren’t[/italic] in the parade*Undercover Euro Yob

121Truth wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at &quot;The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!!

I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case weren’tin the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’!

*in that case they weren’t in the parade*

Women were not actually segregated from the parade. Every sunday woman have their own gathering at Totteridge Road Mosque (you can check it on their facebook page).

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
People who are complaining that there were no Muslim women in Parade. For your kind information at the same time Muslim women were having their function at "The Light House (former Iron Duke Pub) Totteridge Road !
Forget the National media even local media don't want to publish positive news/stories about Non-White people !!![/p][/quote]I don’t want to play into the hands of the racists but in that case [italic] weren’t[/italic]in the parade - they were segregated in the old ‘Iron Duke’![/p][/quote]*in that case [italic]they weren’t[/italic] in the parade*[/p][/quote]Women were not actually segregated from the parade. Every sunday woman have their own gathering at Totteridge Road Mosque (you can check it on their facebook page).121Truth

Will all the people who keep banging on about racism,please stop using the term.Its not racism,Islam is not a race of peoples,but a religion of all colours and creeds.If you do not know the difference, don`t use the word.Its so easy for people to bandy the word racism around.

Will all the people who keep banging on about racism,please stop using the term.Its not racism,Islam is not a race of peoples,but a religion of all colours and creeds.If you do not know the difference, don`t use the word.Its so easy for people to bandy the word racism around.diddy341@gmail.com

Robert.M wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.

Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....

You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - &quot;It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?

One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims &amp; you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.

Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified &amp; UKBA approved Licence holders !!!

Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.

‘Frackellgirl’ - the impression I get at times here is that you and some other posters are determined to be hard-done-by over this parade if not for one reason then for another - first of all Wycombe Muslims were:

… privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year …
And ‘HASAN786’ pointed out that the Prophet’s birthday is only celebrated once a year. (Hasan does not say so but this is bafflingly reasonable as even prophets don’t get born ‘several times’.)

You say: ’Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?’’
And Wycombe-buddy says (in reply to a soul apparently like yourself - ‘Robert.M’):
‘ the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency.’

You ask: ‘ Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. ’
And ‘OctoberW ’ refers you to a report of a well-attended Christian celebration within the last twelve months on:

http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/104

29428.Church_groups_

combine_to_show_they

_Love_Wycombe/

Finally you ask:
‘ Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists. ’

‘Frackellgirl’ you have said at least three times that it was wrong to cancel a homecoming parade for our soldiers in 2009 and lastly you have said people who express disagreement with you here are missing the point and asked ‘121Truth’:
‘ … why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade. ’
This sounds very much as if you feel the military parade cancelled five years ago is a sort of unanswerable trump card in your disagreement with the parade on Sunday, and that the Sunday parade should have been cancelled in a sort of tit-for-tat spirit, although to my knowledge there was no involvement by Wycombe Muslims in the disruption of the Luton Homecoming parade and the one at Aylesbury was cancelled by an older white man from Missenden, who had served in the armed forces, Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson.
The impression one got from the BFP report at the time was that the decision to cancel the homecoming parade was taken by Mr Robinson largely on his own judgement perhaps for unsound but good motives - the report in the BFP at the time said: ‘… Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton. … The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county. “It is not something we need,” This is a bit like giving a dog a bad name before hanging him - Wycombe Muslims have not misbehaved themselves towards soldiers to the best of my knowledge and Mr Robinson’s decision was disagreed with at the time by Chauhdry Shafique, chairman of the Wycombe Council for Christian Muslim Relations, who said: “I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe … I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe.

You also say to ‘121Truth’: ‘Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion’
And it is true to say that he has called you an unavowed racist challenging you to admit you don’t like Muslims.
I wonder what would happen if ‘121Truth’ were to agree with you that it is unacceptable and insultingly disrespectful to our soldiers to prevent them marching through Aylesbury and withdraw the suggestion that you are an undercover racist - would you agree to withdraw your accusation that he was insulting and rude, and express your respect for Muslims - or (as he suggests) is the umbrage you have taken over the march on Sunday simply a justification for dislike of people in town who are different to yourself?
http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/440

0554.Parade_idea_rej

ected_over_extremist

_fears/
http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/364

9051.Remembrance_day

_parade__under_threa

t_/?ref=ar
http://www.bucksfree

press.co.uk/news/104

29428.Church_groups_

combine_to_show_they

_Love_Wycombe/

I have read your reasoned comments with interest. I admit I have a "bee in my bonnet" about the cancellation of the homecoming parade in 2009, more for the reason it was cancelled than anything else. To give in to extremists, of whatever persuasion, is a very dangerous path to follow as others will see it as a way of achieving their aims. Surely any decent person would agree with this point?
My anger is is not directed at those who held their parade on Sunday but towards the Chairman of Bucks County Council who made the decision, in spite of Mr. Chaudry Shafique, to his credit, stating that he didn't think there was a serious risk of trouble. The spurious claim that "there might be trouble" could apply to any gatherings, not just parades.
It Is a shame when some people resort to bandying about the word "racist" to try and stop other people stating their views, specially when they don't agree with them. The danger with overuse of the word is that it loses it's value and meaning. Some kids today In the classroom have quickly cottoned on to the fact that it is a good way to get their peers into trouble by accusing them of being racist even if no such comments have been made, (a member of my family has had personal experience of this, and I'm sure he's not the only one)
I have re-read my posts and can't see anything that I would define as "racist" in them, but if I have offended anyone it was not intentional.
My opinions are as valid as anyone else's - no more or no less, and I have as much right as anyone else to express them whilst we still have free speech in this country.

[quote][p][bold]Undercover Euro Yob[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]frackellgirl[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Wycombe-buddy[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Robert.M[/bold] wrote:
Who foots the bill for all the security, crowd barriers, police patrols, disruption and public inconvenience ?????? which must run into thousands !!!! and, why were the public not informed of this parade taking place? and informed of road closures, there was no information in the papers or a leaflet drop on local radio absolutely nothing, car, truck and bus drivers were all caught up in this so called parade of celebration, why did WDC keep the public in the dark, why did they allow the main access road to the hospital to be closed, why did they allow the town centre to be virtually closed down without informing the public, absolutely bloody ridiculous.[/p][/quote]Robert.M for your information, the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency. The march went smoothly, there were no problems and no disorder UNLIKE the EDL rallies which cause so much chaos (fights, vandalise, disorder). This was a peaceful march. I honestly cannot see how people can hate so much, the only way we can get peace in the world is if we all unite and stand together so stop all this nonsense, its childish, Muslims would be more than happy to see Christians and other religions practising their religion without being attacked because of their beliefs....[/p][/quote]You are missing the point here. I'm sure most people would welcome equality if that's what happened in real life.
The fact remains that when a homecoming parade for soldiers returning from their tour of duty was held in Luton in 2009 there were attacks by racist extremists.
Bucks County Council then decided to cancel a homecoming parade for Bucks soldiers because of the risk of similar racist extremist attacks - the leader of the Council even stating that - "It was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county".
This proves how actions by one group of people can lead to changes in the traditions and time-honoured rituals of another section of the community.
This parade should have gone ahead with extra police presence and armed military personnel on hand if it was felt necessary.
Instead the Council rolled over and gave in to these extremists - what an insult to our brave soldiers.
Surely you can realise how galling it is to see the council
bending over backwards to allow a regular parade of over 2000 people through the town and yet refuse a traditional homecoming parade to honour brave servicemen and women.
Regarding the security, which you state was carried out by "volunteers from the mosque side" were these volunteers fully trained in security matters as I understand security personnel are supposed to be? Would they have been able to cope if they had to deal with a similar disgusting attack as the one which occurred a the Homecoming parade in Luton?[/p][/quote]One excuse after another excuse !!! Why don't you openly admit that you don't like muslims & you dont want them in england's streets.
As John Malcolm X said
The media is the most powerful entity on earth. They have the power to make the innocent guilty and to make the guilty innocent, and that's power. Because they control the minds of the masses.
Regarding the Volunteers, they don't need authorization from you ! Security personal were provided by a Security firm (Mosque Committee have paid them) which also provide Bouncers to Pub/Clubs they were all Qualified & UKBA approved Licence holders !!![/p][/quote]Thank you for answering my query regarding the security for this parade but why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade.
Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion.[/p][/quote]‘Frackellgirl’ - the impression I get at times here is that you and some other posters are determined to be hard-done-by over this parade if not for one reason then for another - first of all Wycombe Muslims were:
[italic] … privileged they are to be allowed to hold marches through the town of High Wycombe several times a year … [/italic]
And ‘HASAN786’ pointed out that the Prophet’s birthday is only celebrated once a year. (Hasan does not say so but this is bafflingly reasonable as even prophets don’t get born ‘several times’.)
You say: [italic]’Not only were there road closures but also music "blasted" out to onlookers and on reaching the Guildhall an "Islamic message" was preached to the gathered revellers. Does anyone know how many police were present at this march to ensure everything went off peacefully?’[/italic]’
And Wycombe-buddy says (in reply to a soul apparently like yourself - ‘Robert.M’):
‘[italic] the march was planned out about 6 months ago, the mosque committee requested for the march to take place from the district council (a few months notice), the council approved the march, you are right the information should have been listed on the councils website, however it is not the end of the world as the roads were only closed for about 15 minutes on a Sunday morning (least busiest day) whilst they all made their way through the roads. Also for your information the security were all volunteers from the mosque side, they were not paid and worked for free as your assuming that they were paid, security is required in all sorts of marches to ensure everything runs smoothly... Also you stated that the main access road to the hospital was closed.. NO only one side was closed using a string to allow access for emergency vehicles to pass through in case of an emergency.’ [/italic]
You ask: ‘[italic] Is anybody willing to try and organise a similar march for Christians? I wonder how far they would get. [/italic]’
And ‘OctoberW ’ refers you to a report of a well-attended Christian celebration within the last twelve months on:
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/
Finally you ask:
‘[italic] Does anyone remember 2009 when the Council cancelled a Homecoming March through the town for Bucks soldiers because of the attempted disruption of the parade in Luton by "extremists". No question then of extra police on hand to combat the threat from extremists. [/italic]’
‘Frackellgirl’ you have said at least three times that it was wrong to cancel a homecoming parade for our soldiers in 2009 and lastly you have said people who express disagreement with you here are missing the point and asked ‘121Truth’:
‘[italic] … why don't you answer the point of whether it was fair to cancel the Homecoming parade because there might be disruption from extremists when the same argument could just as easily be used in relation to your parade. [/italic]’
This sounds very much as if you feel the military parade cancelled five years ago is a sort of unanswerable trump card in your disagreement with the parade on Sunday, and that the Sunday parade should have been cancelled in a sort of tit-for-tat spirit, although to my knowledge there was no involvement by Wycombe Muslims in the disruption of the Luton Homecoming parade and the one at Aylesbury was cancelled by an older white man from Missenden, who had served in the armed forces, Buckinghamshire County Council chairman Francis Robinson.
The impression one got from the BFP report at the time was that the decision to cancel the homecoming parade was taken by Mr Robinson largely on his own judgement perhaps for unsound but good motives - the report in the BFP at the time said: [italic] ‘… Francis Robinson said he was concerned the event would see a repeat of infamous protests at a March parade in Luton. … The former soldier said it was likely that some residents would stage such a protest given the size of the county. “It is not something we need,” [/italic] This is a bit like giving a dog a bad name before hanging him - Wycombe Muslims have not misbehaved themselves towards soldiers to the best of my knowledge and Mr Robinson’s decision was disagreed with at the time by Chauhdry Shafique, chairman of the Wycombe Council for Christian Muslim Relations, who said: [italic]“I don’t think that is a serious risk, certainly not in Wycombe … I would be extremely upset and surprised if something like that happened in Wycombe. [/italic]
You also say to ‘121Truth’:
[italic] ‘Insults and rudeness are usually the last resort from people who have no reasonable point of view to contribute to a discussion’ [/italic]
And it is true to say that he has called you an unavowed racist challenging you to admit you don’t like Muslims.
I wonder what would happen if ‘121Truth’ were to agree with you that it is unacceptable and insultingly disrespectful to our soldiers to prevent them marching through Aylesbury and withdraw the suggestion that you are an undercover racist - would you agree to withdraw your accusation that he was insulting and rude, and express your respect for Muslims - or (as he suggests) is the umbrage you have taken over the march on Sunday simply a justification for dislike of people in town who are different to yourself?
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/440
0554.Parade_idea_rej
ected_over_extremist
_fears/
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/364
9051.Remembrance_day
_parade__under_threa
t_/?ref=ar
http://www.bucksfree
press.co.uk/news/104
29428.Church_groups_
combine_to_show_they
_Love_Wycombe/[/p][/quote]I have read your reasoned comments with interest. I admit I have a "bee in my bonnet" about the cancellation of the homecoming parade in 2009, more for the reason it was cancelled than anything else. To give in to extremists, of whatever persuasion, is a very dangerous path to follow as others will see it as a way of achieving their aims. Surely any decent person would agree with this point?
My anger is is not directed at those who held their parade on Sunday but towards the Chairman of Bucks County Council who made the decision, in spite of Mr. Chaudry Shafique, to his credit, stating that he didn't think there was a serious risk of trouble. The spurious claim that "there might be trouble" could apply to any gatherings, not just parades.
It Is a shame when some people resort to bandying about the word "racist" to try and stop other people stating their views, specially when they don't agree with them. The danger with overuse of the word is that it loses it's value and meaning. Some kids today In the classroom have quickly cottoned on to the fact that it is a good way to get their peers into trouble by accusing them of being racist even if no such comments have been made, (a member of my family has had personal experience of this, and I'm sure he's not the only one)
I have re-read my posts and can't see anything that I would define as "racist" in them, but if I have offended anyone it was not intentional.
My opinions are as valid as anyone else's - no more or no less, and I have as much right as anyone else to express them whilst we still have free speech in this country.frackellgirl

121Truth wrote:
Thank You BFP for Highlighting the function of Asian &amp; Muslim community of High Wycombe who are over 30% (15k-20k) of HW population. They must be Privileged coz of this article. It does not matter even if you give them 0.1% coverage on BFP.
And I am also Grateful to those who Love to hate Asian &amp; Muslim community making it most commented post.
Respect,Peace &amp; Love to All

Not that the size of the representative group should negate them from having a story reported in the BFP but I would suggest the 30% of the HW population is inaccurate

[quote][p][bold]121Truth[/bold] wrote:
Thank You BFP for Highlighting the function of Asian & Muslim community of High Wycombe who are over 30% (15k-20k) of HW population. They must be Privileged coz of this article. It does not matter even if you give them 0.1% coverage on BFP.
And I am also Grateful to those who Love to hate Asian & Muslim community making it most commented post.
Respect,Peace & Love to All[/p][/quote]Not that the size of the representative group should negate them from having a story reported in the BFP but I would suggest the 30% of the HW population is inaccurate
According to the 2011 census
Wycombe's Breakdown by religion Muslim is 8.8%
Wycombe's Breakdown by Ethnic Group
Asian/Asian British: Indian 1.7%
Asian/Asian British: Pakistani 7.6%
Asian/Asian British: Bangladeshi 0.3%
Asian/Asian British: Chinese 0.6%
Asian/Asian British: Other Asian 1.8%
Total 12%
Source via http://www.ons.gov.u
k/ons/publications/r
e-reference-tables.h
tml?newquery=*&newof
fset=0&pageSize=25&e
dition=tcm%3A77-2862
62HiYcomB

‘Frackellgirl’ I won’t press ‘quote’ for your comment at 4.08 p.m. as it would be a very long trail to reproduce.

To me it seems you have made a pretty honest and complete reply - I can understand you having what you call a bee in your bonnet about the cancellation of the 2009 Homecoming parade and I agree with you about Mr Francis Robinson. You have come very close to expressing respect to Muslims when you say that it was to the credit of Chaudry Shafique to say he didn't think there was a serious risk of trouble in the cancelled Homecoming parade and you have disavowed the idea that you are racist but said it was unintentional if you did offend anyone.

I don’t know what other posters here think but I would say you have made quite a good reply.

‘Frackellgirl’ I won’t press ‘quote’ for your comment at 4.08 p.m. as it would be a very long trail to reproduce.
To me it seems you have made a pretty honest and complete reply - I can understand you having what you call a bee in your bonnet about the cancellation of the 2009 Homecoming parade and I agree with you about Mr Francis Robinson. You have come very close to expressing respect to Muslims when you say that it was to the credit of Chaudry Shafique to say he didn't think there was a serious risk of trouble in the cancelled Homecoming parade and you have disavowed the idea that you are racist but said it was unintentional if you [italic] did[/italic] offend anyone.
I don’t know what other posters here think but I would say you have made quite a good reply.Undercover Euro Yob

Moonpanda wrote:
Uww will you be handing out stickers for other people you deem to have made good posts? =D

Well done Frackellgirlm! Undercover Euro Yob has decided you've made quite a good reply!!! yay

Moonpanda has a bit of a point - just a bit of one - expressed in garbled and misspelt language.
My last post was intended to express my appreciation to ‘Frackellgirl’ who could have posted some thoughtless angry rant (hint! hint! moonpanda), but, in spite of her evidently strong feelings, she made a considered and thoughtful reply, some parts of which I agreed with completely.
I was also worried that some of the people who had posted against ‘Frackellgirl’ might pounce on me and pick holes if I expressed unequivocal agreement and I didn’t agree with all the lady said, in its entirety, but it was good so I said it was ‘quite a good reply’.
Perhaps I should have just said ‘a good reply’- it sounds a bit snooty to say something is ‘quite good’ but I assure ‘Frackellgirl’ it was not meant in a spirit of condescension - more in a spirit of good will and guarded agreement.

Talking about: ‘… handing out stickers for other people you deem to have made good posts’ Moonpanda … oh it doesn’t matter

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
Uww will you be handing out stickers for other people you deem to have made good posts? =D
Well done Frackellgirlm! Undercover Euro Yob has decided you've made quite a good reply!!! yay[/p][/quote]Moonpanda has a bit of a point - just a bit of one - expressed in garbled and misspelt language.
My last post was intended to express my appreciation to ‘Frackellgirl’ who could have posted some thoughtless angry rant (hint! hint! moonpanda), but, in spite of her evidently strong feelings, she made a considered and thoughtful reply, some parts of which I agreed with completely.
I was also worried that some of the people who had posted against ‘Frackellgirl’ might pounce on me and pick holes if I expressed unequivocal agreement and I didn’t agree with all the lady said, in its entirety, but it [italic] was[/italic] good so I said it was ‘quite a good reply’.
Perhaps I should have just said ‘a good reply’- it sounds a bit snooty to say something is ‘quite good’ but I assure ‘Frackellgirl’ it was not meant in a spirit of condescension - more in a spirit of good will and guarded agreement.
Talking about: ‘… handing out stickers for other people you deem to have made good posts’ Moonpanda … oh it doesn’t matterUndercover Euro Yob

You may have guessed that it was the possibility that people who had posted against ‘Frackellgirl’, and disagreed with my post, might pounce on me over it, that caused me to begin the last sentence with the words:

‘ I don’t know what other posters here think - but I would say …’

Once again I apologise if that sounded condescending - it was intended to show guarded and equivocal agreement with a considered reply by ‘Frackellgirl’.

(‘Moonpanda’ - now you have commented I feel I am in contact with the thought processes of one of the most insightful posters here.)

You may have guessed that it was the possibility that people who had posted against ‘Frackellgirl’, and disagreed with my post, might pounce on me over it, that caused me to begin the last sentence with the words:
‘[italic] I don’t know what other posters here think [/italic] - but I would say …’
Once again I apologise if that sounded condescending - it was intended to show guarded and equivocal agreement with a considered reply by ‘Frackellgirl’.
(‘Moonpanda’ - now you have commented I feel I am in contact with the thought processes of one of the most insightful posters here.)Undercover Euro Yob

That's good to know Yob. Though it doesn't do you any favours to start your comments here with ad hominem attacks, that only makes it seem as you you aren't really interesting in the contents of the argument.

I don't think there was much left to discuss any further now.

That's good to know Yob. Though it doesn't do you any favours to start your comments here with ad hominem attacks, that only makes it seem as you you aren't really interesting in the contents of the argument.
I don't think there was much left to discuss any further now.Moonpanda

I didn’t start my comments with an ad hominem attack and you meant:
‘… you aren't really interest[italic]ED[/italic] in the contents of the argument’.
I don't think there was much left to discuss before you posted.Undercover Euro Yob

Bit of a whiff of racism and intolerance from some contributors here. Not nice.
If these people want to parade where's the harm as long as they tolerate others. No extremism.
Church of England folk would find it hard to muster such a large crowd in the town centre.
Some critics sneering here sound as if they're from UKIP, the BNP etc. Poisonous sentiments.

Bit of a whiff of racism and intolerance from some contributors here. Not nice.
If these people want to parade where's the harm as long as they tolerate others. No extremism.
Church of England folk would find it hard to muster such a large crowd in the town centre.
Some critics sneering here sound as if they're from UKIP, the BNP etc. Poisonous sentiments.Scarletto

You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.

Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.

You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.
Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.Moonpanda

Moonpanda wrote:
You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.

Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.

Dear Moonpanda -

I did not address you or make any reference to you, (or anyone else) disrespectful or otherwise, until you intervened to make mocking remarks in your post at 5:35pm yesterday about my excessively guarded sounding approval of Frackellgirl’s reply to me, and I replied at first to Frackellgirl agreeing with what you had said in part. I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.

Far from being: ‘ … unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument … ’ I would say I made a well-considered reply to Frackellgirl who (although I suspect she is a Lady with a different outlook on life to mine) was honest enough to agree with some of what I said and was kind enough to call my remarks: ‘ reasoned comments ’.

Moonpanda - if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly obvious with things, and I doubt the value of your own contribution to the debate here - I listen to Radio 4 News and Parliament Today, every day of the week, and I cannot remember hearing the programme today which said: ‘non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000.’ Commonsense would suggest this is the sort of fact which would be trumpeted by newspapers like the Daily Mail. I searched the BBC News website for ‘£21,000’ ‘£6,000’ and ‘immigrants’ and one of the articles I found referred to the statistics you quote. This sounds like your fellow feeling for Romanians who are European like yourself - a superficially rational-sounding mask for crude racism. Perhaps you can give a web address for the BBC IPod page for Radio 4 where I can listen to the programme you heard.

I hope that didn’t sound like an ad hominem reply, particularly the parts about the BBC website.

Once again I will leave it to others to decide which of us (in your words) has ‘nothing meaningful to add here’.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.
Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.[/p][/quote]Dear Moonpanda -
I did not address you or make any reference to you, (or anyone else) disrespectful or otherwise, until you intervened to make mocking remarks in your post at 5:35pm yesterday about my excessively guarded sounding approval of Frackellgirl’s reply to me, and I replied at first to Frackellgirl agreeing with what you had said in part. I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.
Far from being: ‘[italic] … unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument … [/italic]’ I would say I made a well-considered reply to Frackellgirl who (although I suspect she is a Lady with a different outlook on life to mine) was honest enough to agree with some of what I said and was kind enough to call my remarks: ‘[italic] reasoned comments [/italic]’.
Moonpanda - if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly obvious with things, and I doubt the value of your own contribution to the debate here - I listen to Radio 4 News and Parliament Today, every day of the week, and I cannot remember hearing the programme today which said: ‘non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000.’ Commonsense would suggest this is the sort of fact which would be trumpeted by newspapers like the Daily Mail. I searched the BBC News website for ‘£21,000’ ‘£6,000’ and ‘immigrants’ and one of the articles I found referred to the statistics you quote. This sounds like your fellow feeling for Romanians who are European like yourself - a superficially rational-sounding mask for crude racism. Perhaps you can give a web address for the BBC IPod page for Radio 4 where I can listen to the programme you heard.
I hope that didn’t sound like an ad hominem reply, particularly the parts about the BBC website.
Once again I will leave it to others to decide which of us (in your words) has [italic] ‘nothing meaningful to add here’. [/italic]Undercover Euro Yob

Moonpanda wrote:
You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.

Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.

Dear Moonpanda -

I did not address you or make any reference to you, (or anyone else) disrespectful or otherwise, until you intervened to make mocking remarks in your post at 5:35pm yesterday about my excessively guarded sounding approval of Frackellgirl’s reply to me, and I replied at first to Frackellgirl agreeing with what you had said in part. I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.

Far from being: ‘ … unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument … ’ I would say I made a well-considered reply to Frackellgirl who (although I suspect she is a Lady with a different outlook on life to mine) was honest enough to agree with some of what I said and was kind enough to call my remarks: ‘ reasoned comments ’.

Moonpanda - if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly with obvious things, and I doubt the value of your own contribution to the debate here - I listen to Radio 4 News and Parliament Today, every day of the week, and I cannot remember hearing the programme today which said: ‘non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000.’ Commonsense would suggest this is the sort of fact which would be trumpeted by newspapers like the Daily Mail. I searched the BBC News website for ‘£21,000’ ‘£6,000’ and ‘immigrants’ and none of the articles I found referred to the statistics you quote. This sounds like your fellow feeling for Romanians who are European like yourself - a superficially rational-sounding mask for crude racism. Perhaps you can give a web address for the BBC IPod page for Radio 4 where I can listen to the programme you heard.

I hope that didn’t sound like an ad hominem reply, particularly the parts about the BBC website.

Once again I will leave it to others to decide which of us (in your words) has ‘nothing meaningful to add here’.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
You are doing the same again Euro Yob. You are unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument and being picky about spelling and grammar. It's sad you have to do this and just show you have nothing meaningful to add here.
Just a point to give back to 121Truth. I was listening to radio 4 in the car today and they happened to be saying how non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000. European immigrants on average would contribute £6,000 on balance. So much for us needing them so desperately as he wants us to think, if it wasn't for us he'd probably be living in a mud house.[/p][/quote]Dear Moonpanda -
I did not address you or make any reference to you, (or anyone else) disrespectful or otherwise, until you intervened to make mocking remarks in your post at 5:35pm yesterday about my excessively guarded sounding approval of Frackellgirl’s reply to me, and I replied at first to Frackellgirl agreeing with what you had said in part. I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.
Far from being: ‘[italic] … unable to argue the point so you try to attack the person making the argument … [/italic]’ I would say I made a well-considered reply to Frackellgirl who (although I suspect she is a Lady with a different outlook on life to mine) was honest enough to agree with some of what I said and was kind enough to call my remarks: ‘[italic] reasoned comments [/italic]’.
Moonpanda - if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly with obvious things, and I doubt the value of your own contribution to the debate here - I listen to Radio 4 News and Parliament Today, every day of the week, and I cannot remember hearing the programme today which said: ‘non European immigrants on the whole take from the system more than they put in by £21,000.’ Commonsense would suggest this is the sort of fact which would be trumpeted by newspapers like the Daily Mail. I searched the BBC News website for ‘£21,000’ ‘£6,000’ and ‘immigrants’ and none of the articles I found referred to the statistics you quote. This sounds like your fellow feeling for Romanians who are European like yourself - a superficially rational-sounding mask for crude racism. Perhaps you can give a web address for the BBC IPod page for Radio 4 where I can listen to the programme you heard.
I hope that didn’t sound like an ad hominem reply, particularly the parts about the BBC website.
Once again I will leave it to others to decide which of us (in your words) has [italic] ‘nothing meaningful to add here’. [/italic]Undercover Euro Yob

Yet again you are obsessing over spelling and grammar, which as we know is only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions. I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.

It should be in here somewhere
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/programmes/b03qfzgx
Yet again you are obsessing over spelling and grammar, which as we know is only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions. I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.Moonpanda

Yet again you are obsessing over spelling and grammar, which as we know is only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions. I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.

‘Moonpanda’ - here’s another foul ad hominem attack.

Second things first:

The solemnity with which you make these pronouncements is quite funny. As you have brought up the subject of ad hominem attacks again - apparently not really understanding the phrase - I will repeat what I said earlier: ‘I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.’

When I say: if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly with obvious things,

that does not constitute:

Yet again … obsessing over spelling and grammar,

It is a wonderful piece of BS on your part to follow that by saying my ‘obsessiveness’ is: as we know … only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions.

- absolutely nobody ‘knows’ that.

Then you have the audacity to say with an apparently straight face; ‘I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.’ I suppose your comments about mud huts do help us understand the issues and the other comments with their barely-concealed and barely-coherent hostility: ‘… worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it. ’ and: ‘ Immigration and child indoctrination’

First things second - you begin your reply by saying:

It should be in here somewhere

http://www.bbc.co.uk

/programmes/b03qfzgx

The web reference is correct (if anyone else is reading this stuff then give it a click - it takes up just the first seven minutes of the programme) however your extrapolations 'Moonpanda' makes are a bit misleading in my view.

The programme was ‘More or Less’ - ‘the programme that tames the numbers in the news’ and originally went out last Sunday. It was hosted by Tim Harford and Ruth Alexander, and, in spite of what you say, drew what the BBC web page for the programme accurately described as a ‘mixed picture’.

A BBC radio 4 listener had heard two conflicting sets of statistics concerning the contribution immigrants make to the economy.

In the first set Susy Symes, an economist, had inadvertently misquoted an OECD figure that immigrants (apparently of all ethnicities) had contributed £7Bn to the economy between 2007 and 2009.

The second set of statistics - which 'Moonpanda' refers to - was different in nature. In the second set David Goodheart of the cross-party think tank DEMOS quoted a UCL study which was intended to see if there was any substance to stories in the British press that Europeans from new EU nations came to the UK in order to claim benefits. Ruth Alexander said the UCL researchers ‘… were not looking at how much immigrants contribute to the economy as a whole - they were looking at a related but narrower question: do immigrants contribute more to the public purse than they take out’ and compared how much immigrants paid in tax, compared to how much they took out in services like education and health.

The UCL researchers differentiated between European and non-European immigrants and discovered that in the seventeen years between 1995 and 2011 European immigrants had made on average a net contribution of £6,000 each whereas non-European immigrants had cost the public purse £21,000 each on average. (Native Brits took out £11,000 more than we put in on average, although it never felt like that to me).

Ruth Alexander pointed out however, as I said above, that the study was extremely limited in scope and said that ‘overall our analysis draws a positive picture of the fiscal effects’ of immigration. She said that she would finish on a ‘cliff-hanger’ and explain what they were in next Sunday’s ‘More or Less’.

I don’t know what Ruth Alexander is going to say but commonsense would suggest that the European immigrants referred to were people like the numerous young Poles we used to see around Wycombe who were plumbers et cetera when Poland joined the EU, and they put more in to the UK than they took out, as they were single, childless paid tax at a single person’s level, and then went back to Poland. I suspect the non-European immigrants will turn out to be net overall benefactors to the UK because they and their children stay here and work after their children are grown up, repay in tax what they have taken in benefits, and contribute to the economy in other ways than simply paying tax.

But I shall wait until Sunday morning to get the whole picture.

[quote][p][bold]Moonpanda[/bold] wrote:
It should be in here somewhere
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/programmes/b03qfzgx
Yet again you are obsessing over spelling and grammar, which as we know is only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions. I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.[/p][/quote]‘Moonpanda’ - here’s another foul ad hominem attack.
Second things first:
The solemnity with which you make these pronouncements is quite funny. As you have brought up the subject of ad hominem attacks again - apparently not really understanding the phrase - I will repeat what I said earlier: [italic] ‘I will leave it to others to judge if I started my comments with an ad hominem attack - you seem to have a slightly different reality to mine so I will not argue with you over this.’ [/italic]
When I say:
[italic] if you post on here you should take reasonable precautions to spell and punctuate like other people, particularly with obvious things, [/italic]
that does not constitute:
[italic] Yet again … obsessing over spelling and grammar, [/italic]
It is a wonderful piece of BS on your part to follow that by saying my ‘obsessiveness’ is: [italic] as we know … only really ever used as an ad hominem attack during internet discussions. [/italic]
- absolutely [italic]nobody [/italic] ‘knows’ that.
Then you have the audacity to say with an apparently straight face; ‘I enjoy a debate but this pedantic behaviour relating to what i've mentioned doesn't help us understand the issues.’ I suppose your comments about mud huts [italic]do [/italic]help us understand the issues and the other comments with their barely-concealed and barely-coherent hostility: ‘[italic]… worship, what I can only term ignorance and worship of belief in revelation from Mohammed without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it. [/italic]’ and: ‘[italic] Immigration and child indoctrination’ [/italic]
First things second - you begin your reply by saying: [italic]
It should be in here somewhere
http://www.bbc.co.uk
/programmes/b03qfzgx
[/italic]
The web reference is correct (if anyone else is reading this stuff then give it a click - it takes up just the first seven minutes of the programme) however your extrapolations 'Moonpanda' makes are a bit misleading in my view.
The programme was ‘More or Less’ - ‘the programme that tames the numbers in the news’ and originally went out last Sunday. It was hosted by Tim Harford and Ruth Alexander, and, in spite of what you say, drew what the BBC web page for the programme accurately described as a ‘mixed picture’.
A BBC radio 4 listener had heard two conflicting sets of statistics concerning the contribution immigrants make to the economy.
In the first set Susy Symes, an economist, had inadvertently misquoted an OECD figure that immigrants (apparently of all ethnicities) had contributed £7Bn to the economy between 2007 and 2009.
The second set of statistics - which 'Moonpanda' refers to - was different in nature. In the second set David Goodheart of the cross-party think tank DEMOS quoted a UCL study which was intended to see if there was any substance to stories in the British press that Europeans from new EU nations came to the UK in order to claim benefits. Ruth Alexander said the UCL researchers ‘… were not looking at how much immigrants contribute to the economy as a whole - they were looking at a related but narrower question: do immigrants contribute more to the public purse than they take out’ and compared how much immigrants paid in tax, compared to how much they took out in services like education and health.
The UCL researchers differentiated between European and non-European immigrants and discovered that in the seventeen years between 1995 and 2011 European immigrants had made on average a net contribution of £6,000 each whereas non-European immigrants had cost the public purse £21,000 each on average. (Native Brits took out £11,000 more than we put in on average, although it never felt like that to me).
Ruth Alexander pointed out however, as I said above, that the study was extremely limited in scope and said that ‘overall our analysis draws a positive picture of the fiscal effects’ of immigration. She said that she would finish on a ‘cliff-hanger’ and explain what they were in next Sunday’s ‘More or Less’.
I don’t know what Ruth Alexander is going to say but commonsense would suggest that the European immigrants referred to were people like the numerous young Poles we used to see around Wycombe who were plumbers et cetera when Poland joined the EU, and they put more in to the UK than they took out, as they were single, childless paid tax at a single person’s level, and then went back to Poland. I suspect the non-European immigrants will turn out to be net overall benefactors to the UK because they and their children stay here and work after their children are grown up, repay in tax what they have taken in benefits, and contribute to the economy in other ways than simply paying tax.
But I shall wait until Sunday morning to get the whole picture.Undercover Euro Yob

The first exchange between the two of us was when you made mocking remarks about me in your post at 5:35pm the day before yesterday. You say: ‘I enjoy a debate’ - do you really understand what a debate is? You bang on about ‘ad hominem’ attacks - according to the Oxford Dictionary an ad hominemargument is one ‘ … attempting to disprove an argument or proposition by attacking the beliefs or character of the person proposing it … also in extended use: with respect to a particular person or group, rather than the matter in hand.’

‘Drummer-12’ has come close to attacking you personally and ‘Niqe15’ has done so but that is hardly astonishing after you called the faith of their community ‘ignorance’ and said parades like the one last Sunday: ‘ … without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.

You also said:

Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.

I think you rather expected and rather wanted a hostile reaction from young Muslims didn’t you?

I said I would not argue with you over this but anyway -
The first exchange between the two of us was when you made mocking remarks about me in your post at 5:35pm the day before yesterday. You say: ‘I enjoy a debate’ - do you really understand what a debate is? You bang on about ‘ad hominem’ attacks - according to the Oxford Dictionary an [italic] ad hominem[/italic]argument is one [italic] ‘ … attempting to disprove an argument or proposition by attacking the beliefs or character of the person proposing it … also in extended use: with respect to a particular person or group, rather than the matter in hand.’[/italic]
‘Drummer-12’ has come close to attacking you personally and ‘Niqe15’ has done so but that is hardly astonishing after you called the faith of their community ‘ignorance’ and said parades like the one last Sunday: ‘[italic] … without good reason should not be conducted in public places where most people are against it.[/italic]
You also said:
Why is it so important to do this in the town centre? It's obviously because they want to wind up the rest of the residents and annoy everyone else. Stop the war against us non-muslims.
I think you rather expected and rather wanted a hostile reaction from young Muslims didn’t you?Undercover Euro Yob

No, I just felt like letting my feelings be known, like everyone else here. My first comment to you might have been done with some humour but sometimes that can be the best way to get a point across.

What is your objection to me pointing out ad hominem attacks? I can provide a rational argument for my thoughts about why Abraham faith religions are ignorant and inferior to scientific thought. If they can do the same for any attacks they want to throw at me i'd like to see.

Unless the discussion gets back on topic I won't be continuing.

No, I just felt like letting my feelings be known, like everyone else here. My first comment to you might have been done with some humour but sometimes that can be the best way to get a point across.
What is your objection to me pointing out ad hominem attacks? I can provide a rational argument for my thoughts about why Abraham faith religions are ignorant and inferior to scientific thought. If they can do the same for any attacks they want to throw at me i'd like to see.
Unless the discussion gets back on topic I won't be continuing.Moonpanda

"And off they went both sides marching and chanting variations on a theme of
'Remember the atrocities that will justify the atrocities we would like to carry out.'"

Terry Pratchett*
Thud

* former journalist with the BFP

"And off they went both sides marching and chanting variations on a theme of
'Remember the atrocities that will justify the atrocities we would like to carry out.'"
Terry Pratchett*
Thud
* former journalist with the BFPNonProphet