It's also implied that they already faced Archons once... Interesting, very interesting.

They have: The Battle of Expository Bridge. Foolamancy, Shocking Behavior and all the rest- along with the conversion of Ossomer- happened there. What is implied is that Healer Pierce was present there, along with Lloyd the Dittomancer.

Did we already know that the Dittomancer was named Lloyd? Well, now we do.

Great text update as always. Poor Ace, the mere thought of trying to explain himself to Slately (again) is driving him to drink. And it looks like he isn't the only caster with a low opinion of Slately.

"Aces Wild". I've never read any of it, but I did love George RR Martin's other work, Song of Ice and Fire. Or is this a reference to something else?

Also, I believe this is the first time I'm on page 1 of the reaction thread =D

Also, nice to see some justification why they don't attack the remaining GK-units in the airspace.

That's why I'm not appoint with this update. IF Archons are so tough and their Foolamancy so effective, IF Ossomer is so high leadership and so easily restackable ... what was the problem before again? We now know definitively that units can screen (even bloody archons can, apparently, and we know that one ain't so tough againts arrows). Wanda, in the air, was never in any danger. Heck, right now it looks like they could have waited out Jetstone's turn with ease. Or whatever, really; they could have waited for the tower/AA to exhaust then fallen by harvest, if they were in such a rush. Really, now it looks like any option from GK was a good option for GK, and certainly not like a situation where Jetstone would have them by the cojones, even apparently.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

Also, nice to see some justification why they don't attack the remaining GK-units in the airspace.

That's why I'm not appoint with this update. IF Archons are so tough and their Foolamancy so effective, IF Ossomer is so high leadership and so easily restackable ... what was the problem before again? We now know definitively that units can screen (even bloody archons can, apparently, and we know that one ain't so tough againts arrows). Wanda, in the air, was never in any danger. Heck, right now it looks like they could have waited out Jetstone's turn with ease. Or whatever, really; they could have waited for the tower/AA to exhaust then fallen by harvest, if they were in such a rush. Really, now it looks like any option from GK was a good option for GK, and certainly not like a situation where Jetstone would have them by the cojones, even apparently.

They've shot lot of arrows at the atrium since then, but I'll admit it doesn't feel like it entirely works out.

They didn't say they are unable to shoot down the warlord. They seem sure they'd get Ossomer eventually. The problem they're talking about is that, after using tower juice and arrows to get him (and having used up a lot on the atrium troops already) they could not be sure of mopping up every last Archon. That would leave it unsafe for Slately to escape by air.

If Wanda were still in the air, they would not have to worry about mopping up stragglers. As soon as their still-fully-powered defenses overwhelmed part of the screen or got in a lucky shot, GK would lose the whole war.

Hello all. Finally decided to register with the forums rather than just reading the threads.

Hawkeye was brilliant. His entire backstory fits so well with the man he's referencing. I do like a well crafted reference. I put far too many poor ones into my own games...

Also, I agree with auraseer. Wanda was not safe when all of the archers were still on the tower. They had a long time to fire many many arrows with Lloyd there (well done on finding the perfect name for him. When you want crazy double letters, always go for Welsh names). Eventually, they would have worn them down. And it is simply too big a risk to do now when you have the King to protect. Probably be safe, but probably isn't good enough with the only unit keeping you in existence.

And Aces Wild is presumably just a reference to Hawkeye's love of gambling.

They didn't say they are unable to shoot down the warlord. They seem sure they'd get Ossomer eventually. The problem they're talking about is that, after using tower juice and arrows to get him (and having used up a lot on the atrium troops already) they could not be sure of mopping up every last Archon. That would leave it unsafe for Slately to escape by air.

If Wanda were still in the air, they would not have to worry about mopping up stragglers. As soon as their still-fully-powered defenses overwhelmed part of the screen or got in a lucky shot, GK would lose the whole war.

Why not croak every Archon, anyway? There's a bounty on their head.

And no, just no. A minute ago there was "Full GK expedition group above Spacerock = Jetstone is biding time, in a position to mock parley because they've surely won". Now it's "most of GK's airforce is down on the ground = Jetstone's not sure of nuking what's left out of the skies". It doesn't add up nicely.

As for a lucky shot, Wanda was almost hit by the Atrium's inclement weather, there was the fall to contend with as well ... this update makes it seem that veiling Archons, shielding Dwagons etc would have made her chances in the air seem good by comparison.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

I think it is less an issue of "can't" nuke the archons out of the sky, and more an issue of "can't nuke the archons out of the sky reasonably under current conditions"{snip}It was always a matter of time to shoot down GK's forces, the thing that has changed is who has the time to spare.

That's reasonable.

BUT, what's in doubt, at least in my mind, is that Wanda was in a real danger before. And it's also doubtful that the situation was so dire for GK that they were at Jetstone's mercy. Ossomer's bonus and Archon foolamancy, apparently, makes it a difficult task to shoot down one specific unit (now, Ossomer; but just as well, Wanda). Is that task any easier than the many chances Wanda had to croak until now? She needed to survive the fall, she needed to stay healthy or at least Jack to be so, she had to dodge arrows in the Atrium and find leadership, then regroup ... I'm just not sure she had it worse while in the air.

All the falling business then is just optional icing. All the drama seems slightly forced.

This update didn't happen.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

Also, nice to see some justification why they don't attack the remaining GK-units in the airspace.

That's why I'm not appoint with this update. IF Archons are so tough and their Foolamancy so effective, IF Ossomer is so high leadership and so easily restackable ... what was the problem before again? We now know definitively that units can screen (even bloody archons can, apparently, and we know that one ain't so tough againts arrows). Wanda, in the air, was never in any danger. Heck, right now it looks like they could have waited out Jetstone's turn with ease. Or whatever, really; they could have waited for the tower/AA to exhaust then fallen by harvest, if they were in such a rush. Really, now it looks like any option from GK was a good option for GK, and certainly not like a situation where Jetstone would have them by the cojones, even apparently.

I read the whole conversation as trying to avoid the elephant in the room, that Slately does not want Ossomer croaked. Does the "There's the one you'd have to convince".

I read the whole conversation as trying to avoid the elephant in the room - Slately does not want Ossomer croaked.

Splendid point, really. It was also Ace who seemed to get along well with Ossomer and seemed ... hesitant ... to dust the poor fellow. In any case, it's a bit better (for me) to read this update less as a tactical assessment, than as making excuses to avoid an uncomfortable decision. I might even grudgingly like it. Poor Oss, people do wuv you after all.

Edited for some spelling issues.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

I think it is less an issue of "can't" nuke the archons out of the sky, and more an issue of "can't nuke the archons out of the sky reasonably under current conditions"{snip}It was always a matter of time to shoot down GK's forces, the thing that has changed is who has the time to spare.

That's reasonable.

BUT, what's in doubt, at least in my mind, is that Wanda was in a real danger before. And it's also doubtful that the situation was so dire for GK that they were at Jetstone's mercy. Ossomer's bonus and Archon foolamancy, apparently, makes it a difficult task to shoot down one specific unit (now, Ossomer; but just as well, Wanda). Is that task any easier than the many chances Wanda had to croak until now? She needed to survive the fall, she needed to stay healthy or at least Jack to be so, she had to dodge arrows in the Atrium and find leadership, then regroup ... I'm just not sure she had it worse while in the air.

All the falling business then is just optional icing. All the drama seems slightly forced.

This update didn't happen.

I think it had already been explained a few times that Jetstone, with the archers and the tower defenses, had enough firepower to take down all of the Gobwin Knob units in their airspace. It was also speculated that by using Jack and the Archon's Foolamancy ,Gobwin Knob (Wanda especially) may have survived the fight by outlasting Jetstone's surface/tower to air attacks and they could then flee at the start of their next turn.

Now things have changed. Jetstone has unleashed some of their spell defenses and pretty much most of their archers (apparently they had some on the outer walls). They may not have enough firepower to go chasing after those flighty Archons and they can't risk having missed any if the plan is to send Slately out via the air.

Also, Ace only wants to go out via air so he can try out his new toy. When all you have is a jetpack, then every battlespace looks like an aerial fight or something like that. Ace's justifications are flawed and Pierce is trying to minimize casualties and risk as well as comply with Prince Tram's orders.

And.. this update did clear up one tiny nagging question I had. When we first met Wanda it said she was the 'Chief Croakamancer'. I remember thinking.. they have more than one? Now we know that Chief is simply a title for a side's highest ranking caster or at least the one with the most authority.

Last edited by joosy on Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

Anyway, stuff's being set up here in the background. Now the healomancer's got the jetpack, and Ace's downed a gin ration, which may be relevant if he's to play the wild card later.

Also, a little info on the 'Chief Caster' rank. Every side may have one, capitalized so possibly not just symbolic... if it's commonly assigned based on the caster's level, it may carry bonuses akin to the Chief Warlord's?

I think it had already been explained a few times that Jetstone, with the archers and the tower defenses, had enough firepower to take down all of the Gobwin Knob units in their airfield. It was also speculated that by using Jack and the Archon's Foolamancy Gobwin Knob (Wanda especially) may have survived the fight by outlasting their attack power and they could then flee at the start of their next turn.

Or, why not, fall down along with the survivors (off-turn) after the ranged Jetstonians were exhausted; or do anything else, it does not matter any more. Just what did the vaunted Jetstone AA defenses accomplish anyway? Downing a few yellows, maybe (without any attempt from GK of screening, Foolamancy or the like). Definitely not the surefire win we were told they were capable of. If this update were an honest and correct tactical assessment, then it just does not fit the previous setup of drama.

Also, note that all the talk about time not being on Jetstone's side (setting aside how weird that sounds for a turn-based world and an on-turn side) is here in the forums. Wanda and her zombies getting a swipe at Slately is nowhere near as prominent a reason in the caster's discussion. IT should be the primary reason, not any difficulty in shooting down archons.

I feel better interpreting this as a decision being avoided (dusting Ossomer) rather than anything else. Certainly not a reliable tactical assessment.

_________________The whole point of this is lost if you keep it a secret.

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