exactly trolls are always there. i was selfish long ago and nearly lost a good friend and that was my lesson i learned about trolls and not to feed or avoid them, i was a super idiot and it took time for my friend to trust me again but things are good now it only took.. several years.

I'm kinda late to the party in this fandom and this thread too orz, so I haven't directly experienced the drama/trolling/etc., but do agree that those stuff can be grating. I just never liked huge wanks anywhere...

Can't watch the video due to internet issues, but I'll say I agree in advance.

|: Uh. VCVs are still really easy though. It's less "they are hard to use", as once you have them, you can still just plug and play and they can sound amazing, it's more... "they require effort to be put into creating them or they slur so much that everyone thinks that all VCVs are that unripe doo-doo covered banana".Oh, and they may not be a magical fix in some circumstances and ways, but they really fix my UTAUloids xD IDK, really improves some harshness that mine tend to get.

The argument between people who try to push people to make VCVs and people who abhor them is disgusting, though. if you don't like what someone else is saying, just don't say anything.

how i see the two communities, there is a gap and large confusion. you either have twitter or a forum, you can't have both because you'll end up choosing one or the other.

if i had just joined the community and noticed a split such as this i would feel very much confused, feeling like i have to make a choice or the feeling if i should just continue to lurk and not get involved. it's frankly very unwelcoming and unnerving to get involved in a community that looks divided.

i see a big gap between twitter and the OU community and complaints like it or not are from both sides and you cannot deny it and that only pushes both sides away further making this more and more like all those sonic communities and anime communities dividing each person/community into categories as, purists, elitists, weaboo, fan, super fan ect. ect.

didn't everyone once call VO many of those things? and aren't you all are doing the same thing onto yourselves? the very community you all started to get away from such things.

i'm trying to look at the whole picture here and you can't honestly say that all the things that happen on twitter are "debates" if i recall the whole korean vs OU thing (i'm very glad that was resolved). and there's been a lot of fair share of drama that has happened here as well. drama happens it just depends on how you deal with it, run away or stay.

now for me i never knew vio had left to twitter primarily and we were having so much fun at the time (*pokes grandma vio* you disapeared on me when sparky left me in charge to take care of yous! it was a long time ago i know but i never knew, instead i found out through ari =/ i found out the hardway from everyone). and probly most of the time when everyone asks for opinions on twitter is because lots of people are there and by the time you post here everyone has already viewed it and commented.

(slightly off-topic)(from when everyone was just disappearing or already gone but i didn't know)

[8/20/2010 7:49:13 PM] shinta125: i know that with you, ****, ****, and maybe one or 2 people but everyone else just well poofed

[8/20/2010 7:49:24 PM] shinta125: *2 other people

[8/20/2010 7:50:19 PM] shinta125: sometimes i feel like i gotta be forceful just to know what's going on because no one ever tells me anything DX

[8/20/2010 7:52:24 PM] shinta125: last time i ever talked to vio was in forum chat sparky's sporadic koharurei is rarely on anymore like she's bored with the internet (took almost 2 weeks to get ahold of both sparky and koharu! D;<)

(back on-topic)

while forums are good for archiving and good for intellectual discussion and spam.there's also a chat box everyone parties in every morning and afternoon and late nights.

both have goods and bads.

negative and positive views of the two communities:

if i were any other person and only looked at the negative to all this, i would choose to lurk. the gap is very big and i wouldn't want to choose.i would disappear and would not want anything to do with any of you and instead find my own path. you all would be labeled no differently from "the worst communities" just like how i only lurk sonic communities and never get involved because the fights oh wait "debates" are meaningless, trivial and and lots of the time just plain stupid and incoherent babble on things that can be easily fixed, but no one is willing to listen to eachother.

now the positivesthere are very nice people on both sideseveryone (well mostly everyone) likes to have fun and play with utau, coming up with new ideas, designs, helpful critiques.i would join and get help with things i need help on and get more involved in the community.

dude i'm trying to find some positives but all the negative is beginning to outweigh the positives

i have actually been trying to figure out why there is a bad separation such as this for a while now and if you look at my previous post that shows the skype dates i was researching long before that.

if something doesn't seem right i ask and do research taking into account each person i have talked about involving this category of discussion.even a simple observation of how everyone acts between the two communities works well too finding out what's what.

but still... this whole gap is mysterious to me and i want to know more.

OK you're talking about this gap between the forum and twitter, and I'm really confused, because the way you talk about it makes it seem like it's some crazy holy poopie gap when it's really not. XD;

I'm ALWAYS on twitter, ALWAYS, and I'd like to think I'm pretty active on the forum here too. What exactly makes you think that you have to decide between one and the other...? XD;;;

Twitter isn't a forum or anything, it's just like a big chatroom... XD If you think there's a gap, my suggestion is to, I don't know, MAKE a twitter, or be active on the account you already have! XD I don't understand why this is difficult...!

First of all, I would like to applaud LupinAKAFlashTH2. I really love how you simplified all the thoughts I had about OU with that looovely voice of yours. [eyes you like a drunk white trash truck driving womanizer at some cheap bar with bad flirtatious air]

Anyway, I've been skimming through the argument (even reading it), and I had the desire to add in my opinion.

I started OU not too long ago, so I still consider myself to be a newbie. However I have never felt "confused" about "division" between Twitter and OU. There are several reasons why I never felt that way, but one major reason is:

Twitter is not a community, OU is. If someone was to call Twitter as "community", that is basically saying your AIM/chat buddy list is a "community".

A community, at is simplest term, is where people gather in a single location to have social interaction of similar interest. Forum (OU) is that. There is a single forum where people go out of there way to sign in and have/share discussion.

Twitter is literally a lot like AIM. Everyone has their own account, and no one shares a single location. There is no "gathering", only connection to individuals you choose to follow.

Perhaps this is not something you could truly understand unless you get your own Twitter account and start getting active.

And I have also heard that some people call Twitter users as "elitist". That....that is one of the most flawed argument I have ever heard.

I believe that some people just make this sort of argument because they are simply feeling "left out", or feel the need to have things "back the way it used to".

I also have to disagree with Nanashi about a certain person speaking the "truth" in regards to why this community is "divided". There is no single truth; What your friend has told you is simply a point of view. Everyone has their own reason why they rarely come here, or like using Twitter more.

I also with Nanashi and others would try using Twitter. I use Twitter a lot, and I always wish I could get to know more UTAU users there! It's always a pleasure talking to them on Twitter.

^ Thiiiiiiiiis x a billion.Nobody is going to get along with the whole world, it's impossible to truly like everyone, and Trolls and bullies are always going to exist on the intenert and in Real life. All you can do is stand up to them and either report their butt or block/ignore on the internet while in real life you either igore or report someone who can deal with their rubbish.

@ Nanashi. o.O Wut? I thought people went here because VO is mostly for Vocaloids with only two sections for utau. Not because of trolls or stuff. But to just have a place that's mostly for utau. I lurk on Twitter, VO and here. Nobody has to "pick" a side.In fact it's quite possible to be active on all three.

nobody has to pick sides i know and it's not what i meant by it, i just notice gaps between the mediums and that people complain about this and that, mostly between twitter and here and it seems no one else seems to notice it except a little few people.

and i have made a twitter now despite how much i absolutely HATE social networking sites like myspace, facebook and twitter... and that twitter can only post up 140 characters =.= (seriously wth?! less than freakin youtube D;< ) but i can swallow my pride to validate my points that others see flaws in.

plus most of the people here have/had twitter and just found the place boring or too much going on or fighting. so i will see if it's really the case but so far it's very boring DX

@marirosetair getting away from VO to have more room was another reason there are multple reasons by multiple people of why they left VO for this place and yes that is one of the many.

I've just joined about a September or so? So most of this, I probably won't have much knowledge about but... meh

1-The wars.You uh... might have to explain it. Or have someone explain it for me.2-TriphonesPeople think triphones make utau sound perfect? I agree with you on this, because if you just slap your utau to a vcv .ust, it'll sound like unripe doo-doo covered banana. They require a bit of effort.3-PopularityI agree on this one too. People complain about not being popular when, people get popular from socializing and stuff I suppose. And the effort they put into work.4-P NamePeople make a big deal out of it? Where..? =3=5-TrollsI agree. Haters gonna hate. /gangsta6-Community DivisionDivision? What division? Like, all the utau-er's I see on twitter are very acitve on the forums too. Except like.... 37-Teary fairwellsI agree. But I think some people leave to get the teary fairwells so they get attention..? Idk..?8-UTAUloid spamsPeople have up 20+ plus utauloids? Da~ng. I want to make like... 2 more and I can't even make myself sound different. Derp.9-RetaliationWhen people don't take good help... leave them to be ... ya know.10-Number one'sI don't see anybody like that here. I guess I've only talked to the nice people.

I agree with Scarfu. I've been active on this community since the summer, and I've never been directly attacked. And even if I had been, it's the internet. In the end, it does not even matter when you've logged off and walked away, because no one here that you haven't met in real life knows you. It's not like your mother is telling you that you suck and need to die, it's a username with a stick up their butt. Seriously. And anyone offering advice/telling you what they think about your work/your UTAU is not trolling. That's called a comment. End of story.

>>plus most of the people here have/had twitter and just found the place boring or too much going on or fighting. so i will see if it's really the case but so far it's very boring DX

If you follow more people, it's not boring. It's a big chatroom. xD; If you're complaining about the chatroom here being dead, get a twitter. And they all must come on at the wrong time. xDD Well to each his own =w=

the chatbox is almost always active O_o and i don't like large groups of people and to get a whole conversation in twitter i have to follow everyone or else i get half or not even half of a conversation. and if you'd visit the chatbox everyone in there does not like twitter for their own reason though halo, smeen and mine are for the same XD

I'll say that your arguments of twitter being harder to follow are ENTIRELY ridiculous because that chatbox is like a cesspool of ridiculous people capslocking and not talking about anything productive. .___.;;

well it's rare to get that many people that was the first in a loooong time to have that many (i counted 26 people) XD it's usually around a few to up 12 or so people and it's a lot calmer than what you saw, in fact it's gotten really calm now. you just have to go with the flow or sit back and watch the hilarity ensue XD

we talk about productive things all the time in chat you just have to be in there during those times, other times we be trollin' and having tons of fun.

if sparky *uses sparky as a staple for trolling* were there she'd be capslocking and yelling and getting manri with everyone during the trolling portions.

And as you guessed it, I'm one of the person who still stay on it x'D (Awww, if my Word document didn't have a little "accident", I could copy/paste many many delires....But it was about 9515 pages longer xD)

...i like using twitter because i can spam my videos and no one can yell at me .__." twitter seems more like a mini blog to me, and this is a forum, this place is like HQ of the overseas utau community.