On a completely different subject, did you find the screen on the Neo1973 too tiny for typing, etc. dhns? That is my only concern for that device. It seems quite nice in all other aspects.

Typing accuracy depends on how the pen input is being done. The screen of the Neo isn't much larger, therefore it is not much more precise to hit keys on a virtual keyboard - even if the Neo has 4 times the display resolution (i.e. smaller pixels).

This device has also a handwriting/graffitti type input method (Qtopia).

Dear all,now it looks achievable that we can really get this nice device as a "Letux 380" for everyone!

First of all it is a real device and I have made some more experiments over the weekend like shooting photos and doing phone calls. The device comes from China and I am in contact with the manufacturer. Fortunately, they are willing to give a little technical support and they want to have a sales partner who can do end-user support for 3rd party software. Because they did not have such a partner yet, they hesitated to open the software, although they have designed the device specifically to be an open PDA/Smartphone, i.e. to allow 3rd party software.

Fortunately, I can now tell a little more about the specs:

QVGA touchscreen display (2.4 inch)

Quadband GPRS Class 10

TI OMAP730

1.3 Mpix camera (can record MPEG4)

90g incl. battery

talk time up to 240 min

standby up to 200 h

1020 mAh battery

64MB ROM (internal flash) - I don't know if we can install a different kernel or rootfs

based on Linux 2.4.20 (plus patches) - this is mostly binary compatible to the Zaurus!

universal charger (100-240V, 50-60Hz)

What we have tested is:

there is FTP access built in

it is possible to install/start telnetd and OpenSSH (binary taken from the Zaurus version) to get a remote shell

more complex binaries and libraries work (main issue is that /bin and /usr are readonly so we have to mangle $PATH and $LD_LIBRARY_PATH)

busybox is a little spartanic

Now come the issues: We need to purchase a production lot of at least 1000 units from the manufacturer. This also means that 1000 units have to be sold within approx. 6 months.

The production lead time is approx. 45 days, so the devices will be available by end of May 2008 if we order soon. The price will be in the range of 249 - 299 EUR (incl. 19% German VAT and 2 years warranty) or 300 - 350 US$ (if we ship to outside Europe with only 90 days warranty) - depending on the currency exchange rates when we order.

We will also install a Wiki and a mailing list specific for this device so that we can share ideas, tricks, tips, i.e. how to install additional software and build a community around it.

But for doing that through my company (http://www.handheld-linux.com), we need a partner (preferrably with a rich uncle and within the European Trade Community) to prefinance the stock and help with manging the project. So, if you are interested yourself or know someone who is, please contact me through a private message.

So, what do you think - should we continue? Do you think it is possible to distribute 1000 units at the given specs? Are you interested yourself in hacking this device and adding 3rd party software? Or do you know projects that need such a small and nice Quadband PDA platform?

a year or more ago I'd have been very interested in that letux, but I am sorry to say that its specifications seem a bit old especially at the price. I would certainly not consider it unless it were truly open, that full source was provided and most especially for the kernel drivers, and I'd even want to see some basic schematics.

I think what it lacks most is RAM. I could live without wifi if the bluetooth is 2.x high speed. GPS would be a major boost, and quite possibly cheap to add.

a year or more ago I'd have been very interested in that letux, but I am sorry to say that its specifications seem a bit old especially at the price. I would certainly not consider it unless it were truly open, that full source was provided and most especially for the kernel drivers, and I'd even want to see some basic schematics.

I think what it lacks most is RAM. I could live without wifi if the bluetooth is 2.x high speed. GPS would be a major boost, and quite possibly cheap to add.

Will it do USB host?

Unfortunately, it is not possible to modify anything in the hardware (without raising the minimum quantity into the millions range, introducing delays and breaking the commercial feasibility completely). But you can find basic schematics here: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbu...;contentId=4676.

I think you are more looking for a platform like the Openmoko Freerunner. The OM has more RAM, GPS and WiFi, USB Host. And it is clearly more open. And will also be available in a few months.

But it is also more expensive, has no camera. No handsfree. Isn't Quadband. Is much larger. Has no pen that fits into the device. And is much more heavy.

So, I think this Letux 380 is currently the best compromise if someone needs a very small, working Linux based device which allows installation of native 3rd party applications, that can be really available (you can always ask for better specs but it doesn't help if you can't purchase it).

Hi koen,there is an old rule in professional IT: never touch a running system...

Yes, this is not the newest breed, but it is available and simply works. For users and applications developers in the user space the differences between 2.4 and 2.6 are not that large. So, why change it?

Of course, there is a lot of difference for driver developers and kernel hackers...

I think the issue is that if you're starting with a new device, you want to start with the latest kernel in order to take advantage of all the activity that surrounds it. Ok, sure, 2.4 is stable, mature etc, but it's also not really going anywhere. 2.6 is pretty stable, so there's no reason to not adopt it, and by not adopting it you exclude the hard-core hackers who will be testing the bleeding edge for you! Very few people, in handheld/embedded linux, are actually capable and willing to port 2.4 drivers to 2.6.

I think the issue is that if you're starting with a new device, you want to start with the latest kernel in order to take advantage of all the activity that surrounds it. Ok, sure, 2.4 is stable, mature etc, but it's also not really going anywhere. 2.6 is pretty stable, so there's no reason to not adopt it, and by not adopting it you exclude the hard-core hackers who will be testing the bleeding edge for you! Very few people, in handheld/embedded linux, are actually capable and willing to port 2.4 drivers to 2.6.

Let's say it that way: it is a new hardware design based on a mature chipset and software. So, there is no need to do more testing. There is also no need to invest time or money or both into switching to 2.6. If we look how stable Openmoko is, it would be a long way to go until it would be end-user ready again.

Surely, it is therefore not a device for hard-core kernel hackers. For them, an Openmoko will suit better. But how many kernel hackers are there compared to application developers and end-users? 1% or less?

the kernel, AIUI, in openmoko is pretty stable. all I'm suggesting is that if you make a platform that the hard-core hackers will enjoy, then the medium-core hackers will follow, and give you a good community.

if you simple want an appliance that is used pretty much as-shipped from the factory without too much new leading-edge stuff happening, then you can stick with legacy but tried/tested stuff.

take a look at the zaurus scene, and contrast what is happening with angstrom+debian, pdaXrom and cacko. the latter is basically now an appliance, hardly anything new. angstrom+debian have a lot of interest and new stuff.