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I recently picked this up because I'm a great fan of Lain and loved the idea of an anime about angels. I'm curious to know what other people think about it. I enjoyed the series but felt that there was much more they could have done with it. I enjoyed that the ending, while not covering a lot of ground you expected to be covered, also went some directions you, or at least I, wasn't expecting. I think this series should have been longer than 13 episodes. I also thought it was neat how it slowly turns out the focus of the series is really more or less on Reki and not Rakka. Overall, I enjoyed it, though it could have benefited from some extra substance. Granted, I realize that a lot of the things like who the Toga and Haibane Renmei are were hinted at, but when I finished it, it felt as if there should have been more. Many people probably wanted to know what lay beyond the wall, though I take the wall to be more a metaphor, which is probably why the creators didn't go beyond it. Anyway, other thoughts?

The reason it is only 13 episodes is because there was a single character arc that it focuses on:

Spoiler for end of the series:

namely how Rakka helps to midwife Reiki into the next level of her existence.

Everything else is simply treated as the setting for this story without any important value just for existing. I could even say that the fact we don't know the reasons for this town's existence adds to the focus on the characters. It's dreamlike strangeness emphasises by contrast just how real the people in this show really are.

With that said, yeah, I too would like to know the answers about this Town, the Toga and the Wall. It might be nice if they were to make another 13 episodes of Haibane Renmei since I can say without fear of contradiction that there are a lot more stories to tell in this setting even if they don't ever give us any real answers.

This show isn't about answers, it is about the process of growing up and redemption. That story will continue as long as there are people.

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There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

If I remember, this subject was discussed previously in these forums, but like many interesting threads they were lost when the forum had the crash last year.

I'm not very good at trying to explain at this sort of level, especially since I'm not that familiar with (what I think) the premise, or concept, of Haibane Renmei along with the town of Glie.

Concerning the whole what's going on, the wall, the town, IMHO the reason why there doesn't seem to be much of an explanation is because the viewer is meant to make the connection themselves. Once you work it out (or, as in my case, once I was told), it becomes "Oh, of course..." you don't need to be told much more. So, what is it I'm talking about... it's a big spoiler so don't read unless you've completed the series

Spoiler for those who have seen all 13 eps:

The town of Glie is Purgatory.

Quote:

Purgatory is "a state of final purification after death and before entrance into heaven for those who died in God's friendship, but were only imperfectly purified; a final cleansing of human imperfection before one is able to enter the joy of heaven.

Quote:

Consider an analogy: Suppose you have a friend who goes to join the army and is in bootcamp. Now (theoretically) everyone who enters the army must be brought up to a certain level of physical excellence, which is the purpose of bootcamp. It doesn't matter where you start from, bootcamp's purpose is to bring you up to that level of physical excellence.

This is what purgatory does. Purgatory is the bootcamp of heaven. The purpose of purgatory is to bring you up the level of spiritual excellence needed to experience the full-force presence of God. It doesn't matter where you start from, there will be no sinning in heaven, and you have to be brought up to that level during final sanctification, before you are glorified with God in heaven.

I think once you accept the above connection, then the wings, halos, the walls, the town, fall into place. Or at least it fits into what I believe the ideas Yoshitoshi Abe wanted to put across.

Now, it may be that the above still doesn't answer many of the questions raised in Haibane, but that in the way is the point. The whole concept is part of the faith and it's down you as to how you should interpret the story. I hope the above isn't so obvious that you say "Yeah, yeah, I know all that but what is Haibane about"

Certain one of my favourite Yoshitoshi Abe series (which I prefer in the following sequence Haibane Renmei, NieA_7, Serial Experiments Lain, TEXHNOLYZE), which coincidently is in alphabetical order

That's a nice interpretation you got there, xris. I have never seen it in that way before.

One thing I've noticed about the story is that if you strip away the wings, the halos, and the wall, the essence of the story is still maintained. It's a story of characters, and sometimes I feel that its laid back atmosphere and strange setting serves to further defamiliarize the viewer in order to prompt a fresher look at things. Haibane Renmei succeeds in depicting a world characterized by magical realism, and the irony of it all is that the viewer is convinced that everything is "still ordinary," to the point that he or she never truly questions things until the end is reached.

This is also one of my favorites. Although for me, I place this under my "non-marathon, Sunday mornings" category. It's the type of show I prefer to watch while I'm in a laid back mood and after all my work has been done.

For me Haibane Renmei is a tale about characters trying to find a meaning for their existence and for one of them, a reason to continue that existence when it seems that there is no meaning. It's probably one of the most subtle (and emotionally draining) fables about atonement ever commited to film, certainly in animation. I only wish it was twice as long, but it is one series that rewards you for repeated viewings.

The music is also worth noting, the soundtrack is wonderful and perfectly fits the world of Haibane Renmei. I recommend all three soundtracks if you can track them down.

It's a really beautiful series, the art, the music are amazing. As for the story,

Spoiler for ending:

After watching the last few episodes, I think the Haibane are children that commited suicide. And that place is their last chance to attain salvation. The dream itself describe how they died. The tradition to be named after their first dream it's like a sin name that will be reborn when they can overcome their sin and move on.

I'm stil not sure exactly what to interpret the black wings. I think maybe the black wings are symbol for those who do not wished to move on or attain salvation, because they are bound by a sin that they themself cannot let go. In Rekki case, in the end she stil blaming herself and thinking that she's not worthy to be saved.

After watching the last few episodes, I think the Haibane are children that commited suicide. And that place is their last chance to attain salvation. The dream itself describe how they died. The tradition to be named after their first dream it's like a sin name that will be reborn when they can overcome their sin and move on.

I'm stil not sure exactly what to interpret the black wings. I think maybe the black wings are symbol for those who do not wished to move on or attain salvation, because they are bound by a sin that they themself cannot let go. In Rekki case, in the end she stil blaming herself and thinking that she's not worthy to be saved.

Spoiler for about the Haibane:

Certainly for Reki and Rakka that seems to be true. Rakka threw herself down the well thinking she would not be missed. Reki, perhaps through manic depression, allowed herself to be hit by a train. For the other Haibane I think it is closer to what Xris mentioned. The Haibane are souls of the departed children that have not attained the necessary spiritual level to enter Heaven (or the next phase of extinstence). In Glie they spend their time reaching this level or in the case of 'sinners' they must atone for them. On the Day of Raising, if they fail they become the Toga if they succeed they ascend over the wall and to eternity.

the show suggested that those children commited suicide... I mean, we have names like fall (jump off from high place), pebble (drops on train rail), fish (throw herself into river), sleep (sleeping pills) that hinted at their suicide methods

I think this series is another example of character-driven series instead of a plot-driven one. Its focus is on developing the characters rather than telling a complete story. There are many things unexplained, but that also makes it feel more... "real" I guess... it's like living inside the world and experiencing it as those characters. We also may never know the answers to a lot of mysteries in our world in our life, but that doesn't stop us from experiencing the world

the show suggested that those children commited suicide... I mean, we have names like fall (jump off from high place), pebble (drops on train rail), fish (throw herself into river), sleep (sleeping pills) that hinted at their suicide methods

Spoiler for Haibane names:

I've always assumed Nemu died in her sleep, but sleeping pills could also make sense. However there are other characters with names that aren't consistent with suicidal deaths, like Hikari, Midori and Shouta. I think Reki and Rakka are the only ones who commited suicide.

It's a really beautiful series, the art, the music are amazing. As for the story,

Spoiler for ending:

After watching the last few episodes, I think the Haibane are children that commited suicide. And that place is their last chance to attain salvation. The dream itself describe how they died. The tradition to be named after their first dream it's like a sin name that will be reborn when they can overcome their sin and move on.

I'm stil not sure exactly what to interpret the black wings. I think maybe the black wings are symbol for those who do not wished to move on or attain salvation, because they are bound by a sin that they themself cannot let go. In Rekki case, in the end she stil blaming herself and thinking that she's not worthy to be saved.

Spoiler for my rebutal:

I don't think that all of the Haibane commited suicide. In a discussion of the subject I think you should consider all the tiny children. There are a lot of little kids of ages 4-12. How many of them committed suicide? I think that they came here simply because their souls didn't have a chance to become either good or evil. If they could come here without committing suicide, then I doubt that Kuu or others did either. The suicides are simply the most tormented of them.

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There's not that fine a line between willing suspension of disbelief and something just being stupid.

I think also the guy from the abandoned factory was born with sins too because...

Spoiler:

...because he taught Reki to use the extract to die her wings.

I was under the impression that the one who taught Reki of the wing dye was the previous oldest haibane (forget her name, she had glasses). Reki says that she went into the woods to gather the dye; there's even a scene when she's coming back and collapses due to her poor health.

I was under the impression that the one who taught Reki of the wing dye was the previous oldest haibane (forget her name, she had glasses). Reki says that she went into the woods to gather the dye; there's even a scene when she's coming back and collapses due to her poor health.

I don't think that all of the Haibane commited suicide. In a discussion of the subject I think you should consider all the tiny children. There are a lot of little kids of ages 4-12. How many of them committed suicide? I think that they came here simply because their souls didn't have a chance to become either good or evil. If they could come here without committing suicide, then I doubt that Kuu or others did either. The suicides are simply the most tormented of them.

Spoiler for about the name and dreams:

Well I tought at first it was only Rakka and Reki that commit suicide, but watching it back, remember that Rakka was sent to work on the waterways and she found Kuu's name and has a new meaning there. When she asked the Toga why, he explained about the reborn name, and shown Rakka's name new meaning.

Since their name was based on their first dream they remember, I think that dream describe their sin, the situation how they died. When they finally atone and can let go, their name will be reborn into a new meaning and they can pass on to the next existance.

About their dreams, we didn't get to know what everyone dream looks like exactly. We only saw Reki and Rakka. But both of them remember only parts of their dreams. Rakka forgot about the bird until later on when she finally found that bones. While Reki only remember walking on a pebble road under the moonlight, she didn't remember the incoming train until the last moment.

We didn't get to know everyone else dream, but as Rekki dreams sounds like a normal dream someone walking under the moonlight, we don't know the exact situation of the other's dream, Kuu's dream could be that she overdose drugs. Hikari's dream could be she saw very bright car light or explosion.

But the dream was the key to their salvation, that's why the Toga pay very close attention to their dream and their name.

Spoiler for young haibane:

I'm not sure about the young haibane tho. I don't think they grow become older Haibane. Remember there is that time limit in 3 years they have to achieve the day of flight or they will disapear. Also I remember Kuu said that she's the youngest and she wanted a little sister when Rakka arived. So I'm guessing the young haibane are different situation entirely from the older Haibane as they do not follow the older Haibane tradition to name after their first dream.

Interesting interpretations you guys have here. Hmmm. Guess I have to watch this series again.

Spoiler:

But with all this talk of redemption and suicide, what then about the normal people who live amongst them? The wall also applies to the people living there, and Rakka and co. are just really a minority. What then about those people and the relationships Rakka and her friends forge with them--like the pregnant librarian and Nemu for instance? Are they also--under this suicide angle--"dead" but due to different reasons?

Interesting interpretations you guys have here. Hmmm. Guess I have to watch this series again.

Spoiler:

But with all this talk of redemption and suicide, what then about the normal people who live amongst them? The wall also applies to the people living there, and Rakka and co. are just really a minority. What then about those people and the relationships Rakka and her friends forge with them--like the pregnant librarian and Nemu for instance? Are they also--under this suicide angle--"dead" but due to different reasons?

Spoiler:

I guess the normal people could be some "chosen" people to help those greywings... I think they are not dead... about the relationships and things... I guess when you "leave nest" you have to leave everything behind...

For the names, I though Hikari means she sun-baked herself to death I also think the names are related to the reason of them becoming greywings, since when they prepare to "leave nest", they change names. I also agree that those children greywings could be different...

I heard this series is actually based on the setting of a short doujin story...

...
I heard this series is actually based on the setting of a short doujin story...

Yep, ABe wrote a doujinshi called 'Charcoal Feather Federation' in 1998, which featured lots of Haibane-like creations, but didn't have any characters or story from the animated series. He later wrote 4 more, the first of which are almost exact versions of the opening 2 episodes.

I'm not sure if the doujinshi is licensed, but you can download three of the chapter translations here. The 'Haibane Lifestyle Diary' is very funny, it was made when the anime was announced and ABe decided to to a comedy with the day to day lives of the Haibane.

Eh, don't know if I should be bumping an old thread but what the hell.

First off, I'm curious to see whether or not anybody else had read "Hard Boiled Wonderland and the End of the World", a novel that I believe Abe has cited as a major inspiration for Haibane Renmei. It was written by a well known author in Japan (Murakami) back in '91 and features a similar surreal walled town that only birds can freely traverse. Now I don't care about the similarities and I'm certainly not trying to call Haibane Renmei a ripoff, but perhaps a greater understanding of Haibane Renmei can be had if it is discussed in relation to its greatest 'source' material. Perhaps I'll do more of this later.

Oh my goodness yeah, I've read the book, but it was quite some time ago and I can't remember all the details.

Spoiler for the book:

The setting is really similar with the walled town, birds flying over the wall, the town in the middle, the river and the novel even has an abandoned barracks, but a huge difference is that in the book nobody leaves the walled "end of the world". I feel that the walled town in the book is a form of escapism and hence was rather disturbed by its ending. After the main character had tried so hard, he finally decides to ?give in and stay in the town? Whereas in the anime

Spoiler for haibane renmei:

the message is ultimately one of hope, of overcoming the roadblocks one puts up for oneself and moving on

So I don't really know if we can come to a greater understanding of the anime thru the book...

Of course like I said I can't remember the finer details of the novel right now and if you can draw some parallels between the book and the anime I'd be interested to hear, um read.