Letters

Costly albatross

YOUR comments regarding the draconian implementation of the Welsh Language Act struck a chord with me. If only for the fact that I have been calling for the Act to be curtailed for years.

No one will ever convince me that the way that it has been forced on us, at what must have been a cost of millions of pounds by now, has been proportionate to the lack of success obtained. It has been an albatross around the neck of local governance for far too long.

The main stumbling block to finding an equitable solution to the subject has been the fanatical insistence, of the Welsh Nationalists, that any move to rationalise the debate is a threat to their dream of independence. It matters not that the vast majority are more concerned with other pressing matters regarding their quality of life.

As a Labour Party member, I have to accept that it has to bear it’ share of the dissatisfaction that is evident in this part of the world. To gain power by agreeing to this Act was a very big step too far.

Len Price Manor Park, Newbridge

Comments (35)

Well said. But don't lose sight of the fact that the language issue is used to propagate the 'Welsh nation' myth, which a lot of politicians have fostered simply because they benefit financially from it. It's not like it's there own money they are burning on it, is it?

Well said. But don't lose sight of the fact that the language issue is used to propagate the 'Welsh nation' myth, which a lot of politicians have fostered simply because they benefit financially from it. It's not like it's there own money they are burning on it, is it?Llanmartinangel

"As a Labour Party member, I have to accept that it has to bear it’s share of the dissatisfaction that is evident in this part of the world"

As they have been in power since devolution should they not bare all the dissatisfaction in this part of the world?

As unsatisfied with the performance of labour as you obviously are, I bet it won't stop you condemning the rest of us to more labour incompetence?

"As a Labour Party member, I have to accept that it has to bear it’s share of the dissatisfaction that is evident in this part of the world"
As they have been in power since devolution should they not bare all the dissatisfaction in this part of the world?
As unsatisfied with the performance of labour as you obviously are, I bet it won't stop you condemning the rest of us to more labour incompetence?Good Job No Kids

Good Job No Kids wrote:
&quot;As a Labour Party member, I have to accept that it has to bear it’s share of the dissatisfaction that is evident in this part of the world"

As they have been in power since devolution should they not bare all the dissatisfaction in this part of the world?

As unsatisfied with the performance of labour as you obviously are, I bet it won't stop you condemning the rest of us to more labour incompetence?

Errr.. Well yes, quite. A very good point Sir.

[quote][p][bold]Good Job No Kids[/bold] wrote:
"As a Labour Party member, I have to accept that it has to bear it’s share of the dissatisfaction that is evident in this part of the world"
As they have been in power since devolution should they not bare all the dissatisfaction in this part of the world?
As unsatisfied with the performance of labour as you obviously are, I bet it won't stop you condemning the rest of us to more labour incompetence?[/p][/quote]Errr.. Well yes, quite. A very good point Sir.Llanmartinangel

Not quite sure what the letter is about - Welsh language or politics. If thw albatross is the language i agree that its an expensive pointless waste. Se Wales negative Mervyn? Not really its the Welshies again i fear.

Not quite sure what the letter is about - Welsh language or politics. If thw albatross is the language i agree that its an expensive pointless waste. Se Wales negative Mervyn? Not really its the Welshies again i fear.Banjalucka

Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!Cymreigiwr

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. &quot;We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

stupid rubbish why not just speak to operator in english

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record![/p][/quote]stupid rubbish why not just speak to operator in englishscraptheWAG

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. &quot;We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

'The only forcing is us being forced to speak English'.

Not quite. Had I not sent my kids to private school they'd be forced to sit through Welsh lessons, regardless of my wishes. I have higher aspirations for their language skills.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record![/p][/quote]'The only forcing is us being forced to speak English'.
Not quite. Had I not sent my kids to private school they'd be forced to sit through Welsh lessons, regardless of my wishes. I have higher aspirations for their language skills.Llanmartinangel

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. &quot;We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

'The only forcing is us being forced to speak English'.

Not quite. Had I not sent my kids to private school they'd be forced to sit through Welsh lessons, regardless of my wishes. I have higher aspirations for their language skills.

oh this nonsense does not apply to private school i wondered how private school in monmouth etc were attracting custom with all this hanging over them

[quote][p][bold]Llanmartinangel[/bold] wrote:
[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record![/p][/quote]'The only forcing is us being forced to speak English'.
Not quite. Had I not sent my kids to private school they'd be forced to sit through Welsh lessons, regardless of my wishes. I have higher aspirations for their language skills.[/p][/quote]oh this nonsense does not apply to private school i wondered how private school in monmouth etc were attracting custom with all this hanging over themscraptheWAG

Welsh doesn't threaten your way of life in any way, yet you go on and on with your unreasonable prejudice against we who speak it, you obviously have no real awareness about it, apart from having decided to hate it and us. Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous cost argument (which doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny) as an excuse to repeat your oppressive views at every opportunity.

I actually also disagree with the existing education policy on Welsh: teaching it to a poor standard as a second language to rebellious teenagers is asking for a proportion of them to reject it. Far better to give every child a basic grounding in it as part of the primary school curriculum. There's good evidence that a few teenagers never grow out resenting the hour a week of Welsh teaching they received at school, and end up spending their adulthood posting anti-Welsh comments online, and even spending a fortune on private schooling purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...

Welsh doesn't threaten your way of life in any way, yet you go on and on with your unreasonable prejudice against we who speak it, you obviously have no real awareness about it, apart from having decided to hate it and us. Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous cost argument (which doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny) as an excuse to repeat your oppressive views at every opportunity.
I actually also disagree with the existing education policy on Welsh: teaching it to a poor standard as a second language to rebellious teenagers is asking for a proportion of them to reject it. Far better to give every child a basic grounding in it as part of the primary school curriculum. There's good evidence that a few teenagers never grow out resenting the hour a week of Welsh teaching they received at school, and end up spending their adulthood posting anti-Welsh comments online, and even spending a fortune on private schooling purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...Cymreigiwr

Cwmgraigwr - Typical response from Welsh Speakers. I wish you would all realise it is a minor language and totally ridiculous to suggest that massive costly arrangements should be in plca e for the odd few who unnecessarily demand to ask for a packet of crisps. Bonkers.

Cwmgraigwr - Typical response from Welsh Speakers. I wish you would all realise it is a minor language and totally ridiculous to suggest that massive costly arrangements should be in plca e for the odd few who unnecessarily demand to ask for a packet of crisps. Bonkers.Banjalucka

Any Local Authority within the Welsh border and any Company that has Wales or welsh in it's title should have employees who are able to converse fluently in Welsh. The Act ensures equal status between Welsh and english

Any Local Authority within the Welsh border and any Company that has Wales or welsh in it's title should have employees who are able to converse fluently in Welsh. The Act ensures equal status between Welsh and englishthrowy1

What money? All they have to do is employ a proportion with the skills to service all their citizens. There isn't any cost, or waste: bilinguals generally don't get paid any more for the same job, and can deal with English calls as well as Welsh.

You have no valid case, but still you persist with your baseless prejudice.

Newport Council employ nearly 6500 people according to their website.
If just 1% of these were bilingual and placed in the right parts of the organisation, the worst problems would be solved. Since 9.9% of Gwent residents are Welsh speaking - what possible justification is there for not recruiting some of the 55000 bilingual locals after over 20 years? Why are they not recruiting a proportionate number of Welsh speakers?

What money? All they have to do is employ a proportion with the skills to service all their citizens. There isn't any cost, or waste: bilinguals generally don't get paid any more for the same job, and can deal with English calls as well as Welsh.
You have no valid case, but still you persist with your baseless prejudice.
Newport Council employ nearly 6500 people according to their website.
If just 1% of these were bilingual and placed in the right parts of the organisation, the worst problems would be solved. Since 9.9% of Gwent residents are Welsh speaking - what possible justification is there for not recruiting some of the 55000 bilingual locals after over 20 years? Why are they not recruiting a proportionate number of Welsh speakers?Cymreigiwr

Craigymawr - It is a waste of money on many accounts. I am not prejudiced at all and am as Welsh as you (if you are Welsh) The speakers in Newport is neglible, and no-one shambles around spouting off demands in Welsh. Why should Newport Council want to give priority to Wesh speakers.? Pointless. Greta for parties and galas but no day to day living.

Craigymawr - It is a waste of money on many accounts. I am not prejudiced at all and am as Welsh as you (if you are Welsh) The speakers in Newport is neglible, and no-one shambles around spouting off demands in Welsh. Why should Newport Council want to give priority to Wesh speakers.? Pointless. Greta for parties and galas but no day to day living.Banjalucka

Cymreigiwr wrote:
What money? All they have to do is employ a proportion with the skills to service all their citizens. There isn't any cost, or waste: bilinguals generally don't get paid any more for the same job, and can deal with English calls as well as Welsh.

You have no valid case, but still you persist with your baseless prejudice.

Newport Council employ nearly 6500 people according to their website.
If just 1% of these were bilingual and placed in the right parts of the organisation, the worst problems would be solved. Since 9.9% of Gwent residents are Welsh speaking - what possible justification is there for not recruiting some of the 55000 bilingual locals after over 20 years? Why are they not recruiting a proportionate number of Welsh speakers?

Surely if what you say is true, then those Welsh speakers would have found their way in as an average of the general recruitment. It didn't happen because there aren't that many. If you are suggesting that some positive discrimination should be used to get them there then no thanks. They should recruit the best people. As for the cost argument, how come National Savings spent £900 on servicing each of the 107 people who chose to request serving in Welsh. That £900 fell on their other customers to pay.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
What money? All they have to do is employ a proportion with the skills to service all their citizens. There isn't any cost, or waste: bilinguals generally don't get paid any more for the same job, and can deal with English calls as well as Welsh.
You have no valid case, but still you persist with your baseless prejudice.
Newport Council employ nearly 6500 people according to their website.
If just 1% of these were bilingual and placed in the right parts of the organisation, the worst problems would be solved. Since 9.9% of Gwent residents are Welsh speaking - what possible justification is there for not recruiting some of the 55000 bilingual locals after over 20 years? Why are they not recruiting a proportionate number of Welsh speakers?[/p][/quote]Surely if what you say is true, then those Welsh speakers would have found their way in as an average of the general recruitment. It didn't happen because there aren't that many. If you are suggesting that some positive discrimination should be used to get them there then no thanks. They should recruit the best people. As for the cost argument, how come National Savings spent £900 on servicing each of the 107 people who chose to request serving in Welsh. That £900 fell on their other customers to pay.Llanmartinangel

No Banjalucka, those are official Office of National Statistics figures: Newport have 13002 Welsh speakers, and 18,308 with Welsh skills. Look them up if you don't believe me! Be amazed then, because I probably know more than 100 personally!
It's interesting though - people are happy to argue to deny us our rights despite having absolutely no clue of the facts!

I established earlier that there's no increased cost to Welsh services if you only employ the right people in the right places, and there really isn't any excuse for not doing so after 20 years.

I know the media confuse the issue by reporting Welsh services as though they're a separate additional cost, but they're not - that's just double counting. We want to use Welsh instead, not as well - we're not going to go back and repeat everything in English. The thousands of local kids in Welsh medium school don't attend an English medium school as well. They learn the exact same syllabus from a teacher paid the same, in the same way, using similar resources as any other kid, just in Welsh instead of English.

We're not asking for priority at all - we just want services to meet our needs, the same as every other sector of society. About 9% of the population are aged over 75 - that's an even smaller proportion - would you argue their wants and needs don't count either, just because they're only a minority?

We're perfectly ordinary local Welsh families, just like you, except that we speak Welsh. We don't threaten you in any way - I can't understand why our lifestyle should bother any of you at all. You say you're not prejudiced, so why do you argue against us receiving services we want and need?

No Banjalucka, those are official Office of National Statistics figures: Newport have 13002 Welsh speakers, and 18,308 with Welsh skills. Look them up if you don't believe me! Be amazed then, because I probably know more than 100 personally!
It's interesting though - people are happy to argue to deny us our rights despite having absolutely no clue of the facts!
I established earlier that there's no increased cost to Welsh services if you only employ the right people in the right places, and there really isn't any excuse for not doing so after 20 years.
I know the media confuse the issue by reporting Welsh services as though they're a separate additional cost, but they're not - that's just double counting. We want to use Welsh instead, not as well - we're not going to go back and repeat everything in English. The thousands of local kids in Welsh medium school don't attend an English medium school as well. They learn the exact same syllabus from a teacher paid the same, in the same way, using similar resources as any other kid, just in Welsh instead of English.
We're not asking for priority at all - we just want services to meet our needs, the same as every other sector of society. About 9% of the population are aged over 75 - that's an even smaller proportion - would you argue their wants and needs don't count either, just because they're only a minority?
We're perfectly ordinary local Welsh families, just like you, except that we speak Welsh. We don't threaten you in any way - I can't understand why our lifestyle should bother any of you at all. You say you're not prejudiced, so why do you argue against us receiving services we want and need?Cymreigiwr

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Welsh doesn't threaten your way of life in any way, yet you go on and on with your unreasonable prejudice against we who speak it, you obviously have no real awareness about it, apart from having decided to hate it and us. Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous cost argument (which doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny) as an excuse to repeat your oppressive views at every opportunity.

I actually also disagree with the existing education policy on Welsh: teaching it to a poor standard as a second language to rebellious teenagers is asking for a proportion of them to reject it. Far better to give every child a basic grounding in it as part of the primary school curriculum. There's good evidence that a few teenagers never grow out resenting the hour a week of Welsh teaching they received at school, and end up spending their adulthood posting anti-Welsh comments online, and even spending a fortune on private schooling purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...

'purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...'

In a huge number of cases it isn't 'their own heritage'. I was born and brought up here to English parents. Massive numbers of people in South Wales are the same or from further flung locations. Even the Wales rugby captain is of English parentage. Give the heritage argument a rest.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Welsh doesn't threaten your way of life in any way, yet you go on and on with your unreasonable prejudice against we who speak it, you obviously have no real awareness about it, apart from having decided to hate it and us. Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous cost argument (which doesn't stand up to a moment's scrutiny) as an excuse to repeat your oppressive views at every opportunity.
I actually also disagree with the existing education policy on Welsh: teaching it to a poor standard as a second language to rebellious teenagers is asking for a proportion of them to reject it. Far better to give every child a basic grounding in it as part of the primary school curriculum. There's good evidence that a few teenagers never grow out resenting the hour a week of Welsh teaching they received at school, and end up spending their adulthood posting anti-Welsh comments online, and even spending a fortune on private schooling purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...[/p][/quote]'purely to deny their kids the opportunity to participate in their own heritage...'
In a huge number of cases it isn't 'their own heritage'. I was born and brought up here to English parents. Massive numbers of people in South Wales are the same or from further flung locations. Even the Wales rugby captain is of English parentage. Give the heritage argument a rest.Llanmartinangel

Cymgraigmwr - Figures are rubbish. No way are tere 13,000 welshies in Newport. Figures from Census or such where people tick a box. I can speak a fair bit of Welsh but not fluent but i probably ticked Yes box.
You don't honestly expect shopkeepers and officers to answer you in Welsh? And why do you fell threatened? I must admit i'd have a **** good laugh if i saw one of you Welshies blasting off for service in Welsh, in the Tamil Stores!!! Get a grip please.

Cymgraigmwr - Figures are rubbish. No way are tere 13,000 welshies in Newport. Figures from Census or such where people tick a box. I can speak a fair bit of Welsh but not fluent but i probably ticked Yes box.
You don't honestly expect shopkeepers and officers to answer you in Welsh? And why do you fell threatened? I must admit i'd have a **** good laugh if i saw one of you Welshies blasting off for service in Welsh, in the Tamil Stores!!! Get a grip please.Banjalucka

Cymreigiwr wrote:
No Banjalucka, those are official Office of National Statistics figures: Newport have 13002 Welsh speakers, and 18,308 with Welsh skills. Look them up if you don't believe me! Be amazed then, because I probably know more than 100 personally!
It's interesting though - people are happy to argue to deny us our rights despite having absolutely no clue of the facts!

I established earlier that there's no increased cost to Welsh services if you only employ the right people in the right places, and there really isn't any excuse for not doing so after 20 years.

I know the media confuse the issue by reporting Welsh services as though they're a separate additional cost, but they're not - that's just double counting. We want to use Welsh instead, not as well - we're not going to go back and repeat everything in English. The thousands of local kids in Welsh medium school don't attend an English medium school as well. They learn the exact same syllabus from a teacher paid the same, in the same way, using similar resources as any other kid, just in Welsh instead of English.

We're not asking for priority at all - we just want services to meet our needs, the same as every other sector of society. About 9% of the population are aged over 75 - that's an even smaller proportion - would you argue their wants and needs don't count either, just because they're only a minority?

We're perfectly ordinary local Welsh families, just like you, except that we speak Welsh. We don't threaten you in any way - I can't understand why our lifestyle should bother any of you at all. You say you're not prejudiced, so why do you argue against us receiving services we want and need?

Your 'lifestyle' is not at issue, what is at issue is the FACT that an inordinate amount of public money, ( and yes, I accept some came from Cymraeg speakers via the tax they pay)is set aside to fund a agenda that it is patently obvious the vast majority do not wish to have shoved in their faces every time they leave the house.

The costs involved in road signage and surface marquage is beyond any real value when taking into consideration ALL in Wales speak English.
The name of the locality on a place signpost should be all that is required to sate the needs of those who wish to refer to whichever place they live in, pass through or visit.
Finally, as one who took a part in the census of 2001, as an investigating visitor post the census itself, I found many had stated their Cymraeg capability to be far higher than in fact was true.
I do not accept the figures issued by the ONS as anywhere near accurate.

My personal estimate would be around 10% for truth.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
No Banjalucka, those are official Office of National Statistics figures: Newport have 13002 Welsh speakers, and 18,308 with Welsh skills. Look them up if you don't believe me! Be amazed then, because I probably know more than 100 personally!
It's interesting though - people are happy to argue to deny us our rights despite having absolutely no clue of the facts!
I established earlier that there's no increased cost to Welsh services if you only employ the right people in the right places, and there really isn't any excuse for not doing so after 20 years.
I know the media confuse the issue by reporting Welsh services as though they're a separate additional cost, but they're not - that's just double counting. We want to use Welsh instead, not as well - we're not going to go back and repeat everything in English. The thousands of local kids in Welsh medium school don't attend an English medium school as well. They learn the exact same syllabus from a teacher paid the same, in the same way, using similar resources as any other kid, just in Welsh instead of English.
We're not asking for priority at all - we just want services to meet our needs, the same as every other sector of society. About 9% of the population are aged over 75 - that's an even smaller proportion - would you argue their wants and needs don't count either, just because they're only a minority?
We're perfectly ordinary local Welsh families, just like you, except that we speak Welsh. We don't threaten you in any way - I can't understand why our lifestyle should bother any of you at all. You say you're not prejudiced, so why do you argue against us receiving services we want and need?[/p][/quote]Your 'lifestyle' is not at issue, what is at issue is the FACT that an inordinate amount of public money, ( and yes, I accept some came from Cymraeg speakers via the tax they pay)is set aside to fund a agenda that it is patently obvious the vast majority do not wish to have shoved in their faces every time they leave the house.
The costs involved in road signage and surface marquage is beyond any real value when taking into consideration ALL in Wales speak English.
The name of the locality on a place signpost should be all that is required to sate the needs of those who wish to refer to whichever place they live in, pass through or visit.
Finally, as one who took a part in the census of 2001, as an investigating visitor post the census itself, I found many had stated their Cymraeg capability to be far higher than in fact was true.
I do not accept the figures issued by the ONS as anywhere near accurate.
My personal estimate would be around 10% for truth.varteg1

Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?

Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?Cymreigiwr

Cymraigmwr - Really, you are some character. You say WE - implies a Welshie is different. Not good. Nobody says you are hurting anyone, why should they? It is you the Welshie groaners that keep on about it as if as a very small number they are going to convince all others in our country to bludgeon through costly language acts and idiotic proposals. Are we all going to wear shawls and walk about with bags of cockles!!!

Cymraigmwr - Really, you are some character. You say WE - implies a Welshie is different. Not good. Nobody says you are hurting anyone, why should they? It is you the Welshie groaners that keep on about it as if as a very small number they are going to convince all others in our country to bludgeon through costly language acts and idiotic proposals. Are we all going to wear shawls and walk about with bags of cockles!!!Banjalucka

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?

But that is the very point, we DO accept your stance, what we don NOT accept is the way that has been manipulated by a tranche of Cymraeg supporting politicals into placing the whole matter into a manufactured agenda that without doubt goes against the wishes and grain of the vast majority.

It may no 'hurt' you to see the head Sherang of Cymdaithas getting a hundred grand a year to promote the language, or some millions of Pounds per annum thrown at the Welsh Language gang, but it certain rankles with many who see their tax being diverted towards a feature of Wales that in all truth, the Welsh themselves have caused to become a dinosaur amongst the Welsh people.
No indeed, YOU personally, are not 'hurting' the majority, but cannot you see how damaging it is to the Welsh economy as a whole? Or how damaging it can be to communities such as mine where the name was proposed by your lot, to be changed to an unacceptable one, and using spurious argument to justify that proposal?

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?[/p][/quote]But that is the very point, we DO accept your stance, what we don NOT accept is the way that has been manipulated by a tranche of Cymraeg supporting politicals into placing the whole matter into a manufactured agenda that without doubt goes against the wishes and grain of the vast majority.
It may no 'hurt' you to see the head Sherang of Cymdaithas getting a hundred grand a year to promote the language, or some millions of Pounds per annum thrown at the Welsh Language gang, but it certain rankles with many who see their tax being diverted towards a feature of Wales that in all truth, the Welsh themselves have caused to become a dinosaur amongst the Welsh people.
No indeed, YOU personally, are not 'hurting' the majority, but cannot you see how damaging it is to the Welsh economy as a whole? Or how damaging it can be to communities such as mine where the name was proposed by your lot, to be changed to an unacceptable one, and using spurious argument to justify that proposal?varteg1

No Banjalucka, we're absolutely no different, except in being able to speak Welsh - that's exactly the point!

I'm sorry you don't believe the most reliable statistics available, but there really are a lot of us, honestly! I suppose if you're involved in Welsh language events and networks locally it's harder to tell: it's not as if we look any different to everyone else, but we really exist, no matter how hard you wish us away! There are thousands of kids in Welsh medium schools, and demand is such that there's a new Welsh comprehensive coming soon.

As I have established, the costs of Welsh language services are not significant, and are certainly more than covered by a tiny fraction of our contribution, yet this disingenuous cost objection is perpetually used to bash us. It would be absurd to tot up all the money spent on services that happen to be provided in English and pretend somehow that's "the cost of English". Yet the media present Welsh that way - it's nonsense!

I have no interest in contributing to English language services, but I don't argue you shouldn't get any, so why do you argue I shouldn't have any Welsh ones?

No Banjalucka, we're absolutely no different, except in being able to speak Welsh - that's exactly the point!
I'm sorry you don't believe the most reliable statistics available, but there really are a lot of us, honestly! I suppose if you're involved in Welsh language events and networks locally it's harder to tell: it's not as if we look any different to everyone else, but we really exist, no matter how hard you wish us away! There are thousands of kids in Welsh medium schools, and demand is such that there's a new Welsh comprehensive coming soon.
As I have established, the costs of Welsh language services are not significant, and are certainly more than covered by a tiny fraction of our contribution, yet this disingenuous cost objection is perpetually used to bash us. It would be absurd to tot up all the money spent on services that happen to be provided in English and pretend somehow that's "the cost of English". Yet the media present Welsh that way - it's nonsense!
I have no interest in contributing to English language services, but I don't argue you shouldn't get any, so why do you argue I shouldn't have any Welsh ones?Cymreigiwr

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?

Cheese IS cheesy. The first language here is English. No disputing it.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Llanmartinangel, it might not be your parents heritage, but it is the heritage of the land they settled in, where you and your children choose still to live. I know from the blind opposition to the language in your very many posts that I'm unlikely to change your mind on anything, but isn't it a bit absurd to moan about Cymraeg in Wales - rather like complaining about cheese being cheesy? If you're going to live here, obviously you're going to encounter the language from time to time - isn't it boring to complain about it all the time? We're really not hurting you in any way, so why not just accept us and get on with your life?[/p][/quote]Cheese IS cheesy. The first language here is English. No disputing it.Llanmartinangel

Cymgraigwr - Can i get through to you? Nobody objects to you speaking Welsh or anything else to with it. I like the language and our culture. Nobody is wishing it away. What the heck do you want?
o the figures are rubbish. Nobody is stopping you Welshies doing what you want. Got nothing to with you being stigmatised because of welsh speaking. BUT you would not survive 10 minutes in Newport using it for basic things. Sorry but it is costly and there is no denying it.
You seem to ignore the points i have raised and blabber off about how ignored Welsh is. Don't tell me, you sit down all day on Sunday watching hundreds of CDs of Pobl y cwm and the Eisteddfod.
You are canny chappie butt.

Cymgraigwr - Can i get through to you? Nobody objects to you speaking Welsh or anything else to with it. I like the language and our culture. Nobody is wishing it away. What the heck do you want?
o the figures are rubbish. Nobody is stopping you Welshies doing what you want. Got nothing to with you being stigmatised because of welsh speaking. BUT you would not survive 10 minutes in Newport using it for basic things. Sorry but it is costly and there is no denying it.
You seem to ignore the points i have raised and blabber off about how ignored Welsh is. Don't tell me, you sit down all day on Sunday watching hundreds of CDs of Pobl y cwm and the Eisteddfod.
You are canny chappie butt.Banjalucka

Yes Llanmartinangel, the majority speak only English. So what? That doesn't have any bearing on the rights of those of us who speak Welsh.

Banjalucka, I don't expect Welsh services everywhere, but I do expect it from state-funded institutions (to which we contribute) and from large public corporations who trade in Wales. It's not costly, and I've already demonstrated why not.

You know varteg1, I really am sorry about the whole Farteg business - it was a most unfortunate distraction that I expect didn't endear Welsh speakers to you. The name is a contraction of Y Farch Teg - the fine horse. Don't let it cloud your whole view though - not everything is so trivial. I participate daily in the Welsh language world and know for a fact that it contributes a great deal to the economy in all sorts of ways, not least because the products are by definition local, and because the money spent tends to circulate longer in the Welsh economy (as against, for instance, money spent in chain stores, which tends to benefit somewhere else). Unless you have reason to contribute or purchase Welsh items, you're unlikely even to be aware of this.

The office of Comisiynydd was democratically created with cross-party support by our elected representatives, in recognition of the very fact that the language is alive with hundreds of thousands using it in their daily lives across Wales. If it were down to me, I might pay a bit less, but things don't work like that, do they? The role is similar to the many other Ombudsman and Commissioner offices that exist, isn't lavishly funded, and in the wide scheme of all of Wales, the cost really isn't significant. I wish the office were unnecessary, but views like some of those expressed in the Argus comments, arguing against our right to services in our own language (even denying our very existence!) are the very reason that the role is justified, so those of you complaining really only have yourselves to blame.

Anyway, that's quite enough English for one day - noswaith dda pawb!

Yes Llanmartinangel, the majority speak only English. So what? That doesn't have any bearing on the rights of those of us who speak Welsh.
Banjalucka, I don't expect Welsh services everywhere, but I do expect it from state-funded institutions (to which we contribute) and from large public corporations who trade in Wales. It's not costly, and I've already demonstrated why not.
You know varteg1, I really am sorry about the whole Farteg business - it was a most unfortunate distraction that I expect didn't endear Welsh speakers to you. The name is a contraction of Y Farch Teg - the fine horse. Don't let it cloud your whole view though - not everything is so trivial. I participate daily in the Welsh language world and know for a fact that it contributes a great deal to the economy in all sorts of ways, not least because the products are by definition local, and because the money spent tends to circulate longer in the Welsh economy (as against, for instance, money spent in chain stores, which tends to benefit somewhere else). Unless you have reason to contribute or purchase Welsh items, you're unlikely even to be aware of this.
The office of Comisiynydd was democratically created with cross-party support by our elected representatives, in recognition of the very fact that the language is alive with hundreds of thousands using it in their daily lives across Wales. If it were down to me, I might pay a bit less, but things don't work like that, do they? The role is similar to the many other Ombudsman and Commissioner offices that exist, isn't lavishly funded, and in the wide scheme of all of Wales, the cost really isn't significant. I wish the office were unnecessary, but views like some of those expressed in the Argus comments, arguing against our right to services in our own language (even denying our very existence!) are the very reason that the role is justified, so those of you complaining really only have yourselves to blame.
Anyway, that's quite enough English for one day - noswaith dda pawb!Cymreigiwr

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. &quot;We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh?

All our school children for a start.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record![/p][/quote]And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh?
All our school children for a start.blackandamber

Cymgraigwr. - I have a feeling you are in a different world! All the trading and marketing of goods has no relevance to speaking welsh whatsoever. Only the use of a name.
Hundreds of thousands using the Welsh language daily? Really!!!! In your dreams!
The creation of welsh Ombudsman is a gravy train job to keep the Welshies in Cardiff quiet.
Quite honestly you are in Cuckooland. Every point you mention is ' saying how ignored the language is'.
You honestly expect everybody and company in Wales to cow down to a sad minority like yourself.
You still haven't answered my points. Do you want to walk around daily babling Cymraig and expecting an answer in the same on any matter in civilisation.
Got news for you 0- you will never see that in Newport i bet a pound you are not from Newport

Cymgraigwr. - I have a feeling you are in a different world! All the trading and marketing of goods has no relevance to speaking welsh whatsoever. Only the use of a name.
Hundreds of thousands using the Welsh language daily? Really!!!! In your dreams!
The creation of welsh Ombudsman is a gravy train job to keep the Welshies in Cardiff quiet.
Quite honestly you are in Cuckooland. Every point you mention is ' saying how ignored the language is'.
You honestly expect everybody and company in Wales to cow down to a sad minority like yourself.
You still haven't answered my points. Do you want to walk around daily babling Cymraig and expecting an answer in the same on any matter in civilisation.
Got news for you 0- you will never see that in Newport i bet a pound you are not from NewportBanjalucka

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Yes Llanmartinangel, the majority speak only English. So what? That doesn't have any bearing on the rights of those of us who speak Welsh.

Banjalucka, I don't expect Welsh services everywhere, but I do expect it from state-funded institutions (to which we contribute) and from large public corporations who trade in Wales. It's not costly, and I've already demonstrated why not.

You know varteg1, I really am sorry about the whole Farteg business - it was a most unfortunate distraction that I expect didn't endear Welsh speakers to you. The name is a contraction of Y Farch Teg - the fine horse. Don't let it cloud your whole view though - not everything is so trivial. I participate daily in the Welsh language world and know for a fact that it contributes a great deal to the economy in all sorts of ways, not least because the products are by definition local, and because the money spent tends to circulate longer in the Welsh economy (as against, for instance, money spent in chain stores, which tends to benefit somewhere else). Unless you have reason to contribute or purchase Welsh items, you're unlikely even to be aware of this.

The office of Comisiynydd was democratically created with cross-party support by our elected representatives, in recognition of the very fact that the language is alive with hundreds of thousands using it in their daily lives across Wales. If it were down to me, I might pay a bit less, but things don't work like that, do they? The role is similar to the many other Ombudsman and Commissioner offices that exist, isn't lavishly funded, and in the wide scheme of all of Wales, the cost really isn't significant. I wish the office were unnecessary, but views like some of those expressed in the Argus comments, arguing against our right to services in our own language (even denying our very existence!) are the very reason that the role is justified, so those of you complaining really only have yourselves to blame.

Anyway, that's quite enough English for one day - noswaith dda pawb!

I have been researching the name of Varteg for over thirty years, and to date have been unable to discover the meaning of the name.

The best I came to see was on here by someone who declared it was a diminution of Yr Glyndafar.

( I may have spelled that wrong, it was some time ago)

To use a reference to a horse seems rather strange especially when there is no record of horse use in what was in antique times around here.

To verify that interpretation one would have to find records of something like stabler or a impound for our equine fellows located in what was a forested mountain area, until the trees were stripped off to feed iron furnaces.

Sorry, but your translation may be correct in some way, but it certainly does not find application to Varteg.

In retrospect, I also discovered that even when referring to ancient local maps, one comes across inconsistency in regards the use of Cymraeg.

the most glaring example, which sets aside the claim that the map makers were ignorant of the language, is where the mountain behind my house is entitled Varteg Fawr, and down in the Vale a village called Court Vil, translalted into Cymraeg on the road signs as Cwrt Y Vil.

It seems the language has adopted the 'V' whether the language mob want it or not.

Additionally, according to both the exponents in Aberystwyth Uni, and the Cymraeg dictionary I own, Teg, which means fair, not 'fine' primarily, that is your own placement of meaning to call it fine, made to justify your use of 'horse'.

The uni folk tell me that the word Far, or Var, even modulated with an 'M' ...Mar, seems to be some sort of local dialectic use of a word that represents nothing meaningful, but could possible be a local variation of a reference to the wind,... Gwynt, or possibly referring to a nearby stream an issue. Tardd, or eventar... a shock, as from being a place to suffer thunder.
But what could be the most likely is Mar, referring to Varteg being flat, therefore presenting a Far (teg) View down the valley.

Horse?, no way Jose.

In all those thirty years I have never come across such a blatant misinterpretation of the name of my village.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Yes Llanmartinangel, the majority speak only English. So what? That doesn't have any bearing on the rights of those of us who speak Welsh.
Banjalucka, I don't expect Welsh services everywhere, but I do expect it from state-funded institutions (to which we contribute) and from large public corporations who trade in Wales. It's not costly, and I've already demonstrated why not.
You know varteg1, I really am sorry about the whole Farteg business - it was a most unfortunate distraction that I expect didn't endear Welsh speakers to you. The name is a contraction of Y Farch Teg - the fine horse. Don't let it cloud your whole view though - not everything is so trivial. I participate daily in the Welsh language world and know for a fact that it contributes a great deal to the economy in all sorts of ways, not least because the products are by definition local, and because the money spent tends to circulate longer in the Welsh economy (as against, for instance, money spent in chain stores, which tends to benefit somewhere else). Unless you have reason to contribute or purchase Welsh items, you're unlikely even to be aware of this.
The office of Comisiynydd was democratically created with cross-party support by our elected representatives, in recognition of the very fact that the language is alive with hundreds of thousands using it in their daily lives across Wales. If it were down to me, I might pay a bit less, but things don't work like that, do they? The role is similar to the many other Ombudsman and Commissioner offices that exist, isn't lavishly funded, and in the wide scheme of all of Wales, the cost really isn't significant. I wish the office were unnecessary, but views like some of those expressed in the Argus comments, arguing against our right to services in our own language (even denying our very existence!) are the very reason that the role is justified, so those of you complaining really only have yourselves to blame.
Anyway, that's quite enough English for one day - noswaith dda pawb![/p][/quote]I have been researching the name of Varteg for over thirty years, and to date have been unable to discover the meaning of the name.
The best I came to see was on here by someone who declared it was a diminution of Yr Glyndafar.
( I may have spelled that wrong, it was some time ago)
To use a reference to a horse seems rather strange especially when there is no record of horse use in what was in antique times around here.
To verify that interpretation one would have to find records of something like stabler or a impound for our equine fellows located in what was a forested mountain area, until the trees were stripped off to feed iron furnaces.
Sorry, but your translation may be correct in some way, but it certainly does not find application to Varteg.
In retrospect, I also discovered that even when referring to ancient local maps, one comes across inconsistency in regards the use of Cymraeg.
the most glaring example, which sets aside the claim that the map makers were ignorant of the language, is where the mountain behind my house is entitled Varteg Fawr, and down in the Vale a village called Court Vil, translalted into Cymraeg on the road signs as Cwrt Y Vil.
It seems the language has adopted the 'V' whether the language mob want it or not.
Additionally, according to both the exponents in Aberystwyth Uni, and the Cymraeg dictionary I own, Teg, which means fair, not 'fine' primarily, that is your own placement of meaning to call it fine, made to justify your use of 'horse'.
The uni folk tell me that the word Far, or Var, even modulated with an 'M' ...Mar, seems to be some sort of local dialectic use of a word that represents nothing meaningful, but could possible be a local variation of a reference to the wind,... Gwynt, or possibly referring to a nearby stream an issue. Tardd, or eventar... a shock, as from being a place to suffer thunder.
But what could be the most likely is Mar, referring to Varteg being flat, therefore presenting a Far (teg) View down the valley.
Horse?, no way Jose.
In all those thirty years I have never come across such a blatant misinterpretation of the name of my village.varteg1

Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous........

No, it is you that is being disingenuous, for the simple reason few here in Wales can trace their family back more than a few generations, as I have discovered thanks to the genetic research done by my wife on our respective family lines.

She managed to get my lot back to 1758, hers fell short, as only her father was Welsh, Cardiff born and bred, her mother a Cockney.

So to make your claim valid about Wales being 'ours', and by implication that your family have resided and populated Wales since the ice bridge was crossed twelve thousand years ago, is rather fatuous and simplistic, I wager you too would be hard pressed to reach back beyond your great grandparental line to secure a validation of your claim.
Added to which is the DNA genome mapping which has determined that there is little variation across the whole of the UK, and most of Europe, thereby rubbishing any claims to physical localisation for any group, no matter what language they speak.

Cymreigiwr .......Extract from your recent message...
Wales might be your country too, but it's definitely ours - how is it reasonable to prevent us living our public lives in our own language in our own land? You use a disingenuous........
No, it is you that is being disingenuous, for the simple reason few here in Wales can trace their family back more than a few generations, as I have discovered thanks to the genetic research done by my wife on our respective family lines.
She managed to get my lot back to 1758, hers fell short, as only her father was Welsh, Cardiff born and bred, her mother a Cockney.
So to make your claim valid about Wales being 'ours', and by implication that your family have resided and populated Wales since the ice bridge was crossed twelve thousand years ago, is rather fatuous and simplistic, I wager you too would be hard pressed to reach back beyond your great grandparental line to secure a validation of your claim.
Added to which is the DNA genome mapping which has determined that there is little variation across the whole of the UK, and most of Europe, thereby rubbishing any claims to physical localisation for any group, no matter what language they speak.varteg1

Banjalucka wrote:
Cymgraigmwr - Figures are rubbish. No way are tere 13,000 welshies in Newport. Figures from Census or such where people tick a box. I can speak a fair bit of Welsh but not fluent but i probably ticked Yes box.
You don't honestly expect shopkeepers and officers to answer you in Welsh? And why do you fell threatened? I must admit i'd have a **** good laugh if i saw one of you Welshies blasting off for service in Welsh, in the Tamil Stores!!! Get a grip please.

There's more people speak fluent Polish in Newport rather than Welsh and I can't understand a word they say either.

[quote][p][bold]Banjalucka[/bold] wrote:
Cymgraigmwr - Figures are rubbish. No way are tere 13,000 welshies in Newport. Figures from Census or such where people tick a box. I can speak a fair bit of Welsh but not fluent but i probably ticked Yes box.
You don't honestly expect shopkeepers and officers to answer you in Welsh? And why do you fell threatened? I must admit i'd have a **** good laugh if i saw one of you Welshies blasting off for service in Welsh, in the Tamil Stores!!! Get a grip please.[/p][/quote]There's more people speak fluent Polish in Newport rather than Welsh and I can't understand a word they say either.blackandamber

Cymreigiwr wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!

And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. &quot;We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.

We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.

Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record!

Only hundreds of fluent bilingual welsh speakers churned out of schools every year!!!! But thousands and thousands of our children are forced to take this language at GCSE. If only hundreds are fluent then I think something is not working. Where do these fluent welsh speakers go I wonder. Maybe they work in a factory changing records alongside the Eastern European co workers that they can't understand. Flat earth society rules ko.

[quote][p][bold]Cymreigiwr[/bold] wrote:
Draconian! Ha! What a joke - if only we really were getting the service you think we are! We Welsh speakers just want the Council to employ enough of us who speak both languages (on the same wages, mind, no special treatment), so that there's someone there who can help us conduct our business in our own language, but apparently after having had over 20 years to prepare, it's still too much to ask!
And tell me who's forcing any of you to speak Welsh? The only forcing is us being forced to speak English. We ring them up and wait on hold forever only to reach someone with no Welsh in the end. "We have one Welsh speaker, but they're not available sorry". Instead of employing some of the hundreds of fluent bilinguals who leave our Gwent schools every year, they send what little translation work they do out externally, making it seem far more expensive than it needs to be.
We're the one in 10 who pay our way and get ignored in return, but oh no, you're the ones who are getting a rough deal! Hah - what a sick joke.
Try and see if you can manage to see someone else's point of view but your own for once, and change the **** record![/p][/quote]Only hundreds of fluent bilingual welsh speakers churned out of schools every year!!!! But thousands and thousands of our children are forced to take this language at GCSE. If only hundreds are fluent then I think something is not working. Where do these fluent welsh speakers go I wonder. Maybe they work in a factory changing records alongside the Eastern European co workers that they can't understand. Flat earth society rules ko.landyman3030