There Is Too Much Religious Liberty in Roy Moore’s/Trump’s/Pence’s America: Let’s Hear It For The Rule Of Law!

Flannery O’Connor, who said Southerners’ tendency to write about freaks because “we are still able to recognize one” wouldn’t be able to improve on the weird stranger-than-fiction story that Alabama voters, Roy Moore and Southern evangelicals have served up to humiliate America. Our predator problem is not unique to white Southern evangelicals. It relates to an American version of a, Sharia law, or Islamic Law we fondly call “religious liberty” when – that is — it’s given a Christian or Jewish spin.

The Koran derives from tribal culture that produced Judaism and Christianity. Abrahamic texts anchor believers to ignorance: Men alone are created in the image of a God- women are mere vessels. Alabama evangelicals, Saudi Imams, Mike Pence and NYC’s Hasidim agree: Women are second class. And they act on this assumption because America’s idea of Religious Liberty undermines the rule of law.

The ultra-conservative Hasidic Satmar community based in Williamsburg New York is every bit as oppressive as Saudi Arabia to women and children. Abandoned by mainstream America daughters are forced to be a quiet, obedient, uneducated “God-fearing” woman who get married in their teens and start a large family right away. Boys are conditioned in Jewish Madrassas and are unequipped to survive having studied nothing but ancient texts.

Deborah Feldman in her memoir, “Unorthodox: The Scandalous Rejection of My Hasidic Roots,” chronicles her oppressive upbringing and arranged marriage. There are thousands of stories like hers but no changes are made because the courts have been routinely corrupted by the powerful rabbis in New York.

There is a reason parts of NYC resemble the Madrassas of Pakistan and Saudi towns. The Koran and Bible agree: Male-dominated hierarchy and women’s bodily rights are men’s property. Conservative Jews Christians and Muslims share atrocious attitudes to women.

Maybe it is time to say NO to private and public theocracy. The Rule of Law can’t give way to so-called religious freedom to oppress.

Hasidim in NYC deprive children of education and women of rights. Meanwhile evangelical Christians beat children and deprive them of education in countless home “schools” all in the name of Religious Liberty.
Enter Roy Moore’s defenders. They are right!

In the Bible and Koran young child-women ARE commonly given to old men. None of the concepts of human rights of children, or sexual consent exist in the world of the Bible writers’ or in the Koran. The Roy Moore story is all-too usual in conservative Jewish Christian and Muslim circles today.

In that sense we could define theology as the feeble modern attempt by more enlightened believers trying to make excuses for biblical and Koranic barbarity. But there is no escaping that even today and even in America, women Hasidim, Muslim, and Christian evangelical alike are often brutalized.

No wonder Roy Moore feels so comfortable waving both guns and Bibles in public meetings. Even rape in the Bible is not a violation not against a woman but against her male owner. In Levitical law virginity is prized because men want to know who fathered children. Roy Moore is all-too typical. He’d fit right into parts of NYC as well as into the upper government reaches of Iran.

For many biblically indoctrinated evangelical Trump voters Roy Moore is godly- even if he did molest a 14-yr-old. Why? Because the so-called enlightened New Testament teaches woman’s-submission to males. It never condemns or reverses the idea that women — like slaves — must submit to men. God has placed men in positions of power.

No wonder in the Christian Roy-Moore South women aren’t believed when they speak up. In the Bible livestock, children and slaves and reproductive-age women are legal chattel-property of their male owners. So to the extent the Trumped GOP caters to evangelicals its anti-woman. And talk of defending Religious Liberty is code for oppressing women from the “right” of churches and corporations to withhold contraceptives, to abortion rights, to forced young marriages in Hasidic NYC, to forced female circumcision in many Islamic-centric immigrant communities.

“Religious Liberty” is now right wing code for flouting the Bill of Rights. Period.

When I watched “One of Us,” the new Netflix documentary directed by Rachel Grady and Heidi Ewing (of Jesus Camp fame), one narrative in particular hit close to my evangelical roots.The film follows the journey of three people — two men, one woman — in the various stages of leaving their Hasidic community in Brooklyn. As Anne Cohen notes in her review, “One Of UsLets A Former Hasidic Woman Speak For Herself — & That’s Important” There’s Ari, who’s still trying to cope with the trauma of a sexual assault at the hands of a camp counselor; Luzer, who was forced to leave his wife and children behind to pursue a career as an actor; and finally, Etty, a 32-year-old mother of seven who is struggling to retain custody after deciding to leave her abusive husband.”

We see Etty struggling against a system that’s corruptly rigged against her. New York has what’s called “status quo” clause when it comes to children of parents seeking a divorce, which means that the parents must guarantee that nothing will change in the way they are raised. In Etty’s case, the ultra-Orthodox community uses this as a pretext to keep her children with their wife-beating father — if the mother is leaving the community, how can she raise them in its Jewish biblical “values” and traditions?

Those crazy Christians in Alabama are right: The Bible does approve Roy Moore-type barbarity as the courts in NYC enforce every day for the Hasidic “community.” In the Bible a man may force sex on a slave, his brother’s wife, and hundreds of female concubines. Fundamentalist Jews Christians & Muslims have always been the enemy of women’s rights.

Roy Moore’s actions were in fact all-too “biblical.” Just ask millions of abused New York Hasidim and American Muslim and Christian women who have tried to flee their communities. In the Bible females are created for the benefit of males.

Conservative Christians proclaim that the Koran encourages molestation of girls who are too young for consent. But it’s rare that they take to the airwaves proclaiming that the Bible does the same and that the worst communities in America to be a women in are run by Christian and Jewish as well as Muslim extremists — who – because of our American mythology of Religious Liberty — are effectively above the law.

Yes, we do have “Sharia Law” in America and it is enforced by many evangelicals, Muslims and Jews alike hiding behind notions of Religious Liberty that are code for bondage.

Let’s be honest: It’s time to call these oppressors out and ask if we are a Constitutional democracy or a place where some are free but others are imprisoned in conservative religious communities and do not have the protection of the law.

Let us be clear about one thing. These hate-mongering gun toting Conservative Evangelical bible thumpers who preach condemnation and damnation are anything but Christians. The concept of love, acceptance, and forgiveness is as alien to them, as an extra-terrestrial is to us.

In light of the fact that you by your now words , deeds , extra-Biblical accusations and actions are anything but a christian … never mind a Biblical Christian .. the same question could be asked of you !

So what is your religion little man ? Hmmm … lets look at the evidence … mindless sycophancy verging on brainwashed programmed thought patterns … irrational accusatory and judgmental behavior regardless of the facts … inability to discuss differences rationally .. cut & paste scripted regurgitation … nary an original thought to be found … bows down before a multitude of small metal gods while pretending to worship the one and only God ..

But if you’re not a Scientologist … then why do you continually behave like one ? Fact is Bryson from my decades of experience both with Christians and cults ( of all kinds ) judging from your rhetoric , words , syntax and vocabulary you’re the very epitome of an OT VI scientologist

It should be clear to everyone by now that Schaeffer has a big problem with the Bible and Christianity. He detests everything about both, including the God of the Bible. I personally don’t mind if Frank believes what he does. But I do mind if he tries to restrict what Christians believe, and do, which is what he is trying to do.

Bryson … in light of your overall self professed hatred and bigotry towards anyone and everyone not exactly like yourself combined with an obvious racist bias not to mention knowing nothing at all about the Bible you claim to adhere to never mind the Declaration of Independence , US Constitution and Bill of Rights to claim to defend perhaps it time to ;

Deal with that 1/2 ton ten foot long steel I beam protruding from your vacant eye socket before pointing out the speck or two of dust in Franks eye .

Gary… Let us get one thing straight. Being that you are a professed homophobe and have absolutely no compassion whatsoever for the Muslim mothers who have their babies snatched from their arms and throw ALIVE into a burning fire as is currently happening in the horrific Myanmar genocide, and the refugee crisis in so many other countries that are fraught in violence (among so many other devastating injustices) and are totally indifferent to the suffering of so many… You are anything but a Christian.

And while neither Frank nor I are trying to restrict what you fake Christians believe, the buck stops when you people try to forcibly convert everyone else in this country to your perverted ideology, by attempting to turn this country into an Alt-Right White Evangelical Christo/fascist gun-toting state.

As for my religion… I’d say that I am a secular Christian, in that I believe in the teachings of Jesus the central message of which is love — radical, undeserved, unyielding love. Which I must admit is sometimes very hard for me to follow when confronted with the cruelty that is so pervasive in this world, and the unadulterated ignorant arrogance of “holier than thou” people such as yourself, who have nothing better to do with your time than to troll others with your pontificating racist, sexist, and bigoted self-righteous “religious” views while you kiss the rear ends of maggot infested scum such as Drump, Pence, and Moore, who serve the interests of Corporate America to the detriment of everyone else… not only in America … but also in the entire world!

That rich coming from a blatant outright hypocrite such as yourself entangled as you are within the grips of hatred bigotry racism and misogyny not to mention your self professed by your words and attitudes despising the very Bible you claim to adhere to not to mention constantly contradicting the teachings of the Christ you pretend to bow down to

And wanna bet my little sycophant there’s no such thing as a secular Christian ? Look up the term ‘ None’s ‘ on Wikipedia .. then look it up on Amazon under books … suffice it to say little man as the evangelical church in America fades into obscurity …. there’s a whole lot more of us Bible believing Christians not willing to put up with the blatant hypocrisy of a church more concerned with its own existence than anything so much as resembling the Truth .

Martin, You’re not a Bible believer. Its absurd for you to claim you are. “Secular Christian” is a nonsense term. People can call themselves whatever they want, but it does not mean that what they think is true.

Whats the matter little man ? Once again left your cojones behind avoiding the fight you know you’re destined to lose ?

Yeah Bryson .. like your Toddler in Chief and his minions … when push comes to shove and confronted by your betters you run and hide like scared little five year olds . But then again … thus be the M/O of every hypocrite knowing in his or her heart who and what they really are .

Gutless little chickens**ts pretending to be the big bad bully defending a truth they’ve created within the depths of their depraved and demented little minds

” People can call themselves whatever they want, but it does not mean that what they think is true ”

That statement applies perfectly to yourself ;

e.g . Just because within the depths of your depraved little mind you’ve convinced yourself you are in any way shape or form a Christian … definitely in light of your attitudes , opinions , open disdain for the Bible etc .. does not make it true in the slightest .

Well put , Margaret! I left the church and religion behind over 50 years ago, because what outraged me more than anything, is the hypocrisy of a religion that is supposed to be based on love, acceptance, and forgiveness , but in actions towards others, is anything but.
I wasn’t willing to give up my conscience and autonomy and submit to a male dominated hierarchy that would have a say not only over my spiritual life, but also over my body, and my obligations as a citizen!

Dolores. It was pretty much the same thing with me. Plus, I was always very scientifically inclined, even as a small child, and as I became more educated, most of the bible stories just didn’t make any sense to me whatsoever. Simply put, I couldn’t accept the story of “creation” or that the world was only 6,000 years old, or that god used Elijah’s coat to casually split a river in half, or that Elijah was able to summon two bears to ward off attackers… So while the concept of love, acceptance, and forgiveness as being the path of salvation continued to make sense… Everything else fell by the wayside. In particular, this obsession with people’s sexuality, together with the indoctrination that if you did this or that or alternatively did not do this or that you’d be punished by burning in hell for eternity … was nothing more than mind control by those in positions of power to ensure that the oppressed remained subservient.

And when I talk about “salvation” … Let that be understood as saving the entire planet and everyone and everything living on it, as opposed to another lifetime and/or the promise of going to heaven. The unadulterated fact being, that where is not for greed and the lust for power … not only do we have the resources and wherewithal, but we also have the knowledge and technology to do so. What is lacking is the will and compassion for others to make it happen.

Gary… I have always been at peace with the concept of death, and have never feared going to hell, as I know that such a notion is nothing more than an attempt of those in positions of power to control and manipulate me to do their bidding. As such, I do not concern myself with what will happen to me when I die. But, and to hazard a guess, I suppose that my soul will become energy, while my body will eventually become ash. Having said that, I decidedly do not believe that there is a Caucasian-looking being with a long white beard sitting on a throne that is perched on a cloud somewhere in the Cosmos … who will be passing judgment on me for supporting gay rights!

Yes! Gary… Carbon dating, just for starters, proves that the earth is decidedly not 6,000 years old. Sorry, but I am an educated woman, so you are wasting your time trying to shove the bible (much of which is preposterous in the eyes of science, mathematics, and physics) down my throat. Indeed… It is beyond futile on your part to continue trying to indoctrinate me!!!

Margarita, I am not trying to indoctrinate, recruit, or induce you to believe anything. I am certainly not trying to shove the Bible down your throat. I am perfectly happy for you to believe what you do.

Ah… Yes! Eternal life! To be understood as infinite or unending life… And therein lie the discrepancies between what bible thumpers see as “salvation” as it applies to eternal life “after” death, and the scientific definition of eternity as timelessness, which in this sense and within the concept of “salvation” would mean past, present, and future. And while I don’t profess to know how to save those who have lived and suffered in the past… What is very clear to me, is that so much could be done to save millions of people who are presently suffering, while they are still alive in their current form, “IF” only people could just be a little more compassionate towards each other and less greedy and power hungry, instead of just sitting there with their F***ING “bibles” in hand (as you do Garry) judging everybody, and doing JACK SH*T about it; other than to condemn their souls to eternal damnation for no other reason than because they don’t agree with their lifestyle and/or beliefs!

The only thing made clear by Bryson’s constant rants etc is the fact that Bryson steeped in hypocrisy and self deluded lies as he is … is in no position to be passing judgement on so much as a common garden variety slug … never mind a human being

@Poor Gary Bryson. It should be clear to everyone by now that you have a man-crush on Mr. Schaeffer which is why you constantly troll this blog. Obviously, you enjoy sticking around and complaining about who is a real Christian and who is not and telling folks to go to hell. What a strange fixation. I guess you can’t help yourself. The compulsion is too strong!

1) At first any and every faith / Faith starts out being very distinctive and separate albeit within the confines of society /culture providing a genuine alternative to the culture surrounding it while maintaining an element of separateness

2) With then that faith/Faith later evolving into a religion sacrificing much of its separateness to the goal of acceptance ( in Biblical terms losing a fair amount of its ‘ Salt ‘ )

3) Next the religion de-evolving into a bureaucracy losing even more of its separateness / saltiness in the quest for power rather than the adherence to any aspect or element of truth / Truth

4) With the final evolutionary step proceeding its eminent demise being that religion having become a bureaucracy then separating off into disparate sectarian country club / private /club / sects having little or nothing in common with the original Faith/faith they evolved from along with nothing in common with those other sects around them other than the fact that they agree on nothing

And like it or not … American christianity ( small case c intentional ) are by their own volition firmly entrenched into the very depths of number four

As predicted in the 90’s by Christian philosophers and authors such as ;

” Death of the Church ” Mike Regele

” At the End of an Age ” John Lukacs

etc – et al

.. with perhaps the most relevant quote coming from Lukacs’s book

” History has proven that when those in power perceive that their power is being lost more often than not their tendency is to resort to stupidity , misdeeds and hypocrisy in the futile attempt to maintain their power which only exacerbates and hastens their eminent demise ”

To be clear ..in closing … though my Faith ( Biblical Faith ) is stronger than ever .. I lost my religion/bureaucracy /hypocrisy over a decade ago .

What I so ineffectively and un-humorously was saying. Women in antiquity were at best “incomplete men,” with exceptions dating back to pre “civilization.” And this is perhaps the core of the conflict – what rights do women have? Including the (add your own adjective … mine, extreme but in some situations essential) right to terminate a pregnancy that do not want to carry, possibly was forced upon them, etc. Are we yet at a place where women can have all the rights of education, career, choice of who they marry, when they marry?

Women – People of Color – First Peoples – people of differing sexual orientation – people of different ethnic backgrounds – different religions etc – et al – ad nauseam as a matter of fact just about anyone who’s not White Anglo Saxon Protestant .. none of them when it comes right down to it have what can in any way be considered to be ‘ Equal Rights ‘ making a mockery of our Declaration of Independence * , US Constitution and all that they stand for since their inception

BTW ; Louis .. Thanks for the clear comment this time .

( to be clear Louis … the following is aimed at the likes of Bryson and his kind not yourself )

* The word ‘ Men ‘ as written in the Declaration of Independence was interpreted back in the day as ‘ Mankind ‘ . not referring to men as a gender group regardless of the inherit hypocrisy of the majority participating in and signing the document(s) .

I’ve been posting too long in sarcastic humor siteshttps://m.facebook.com/#!/restoringtruthiness/
Hopefully link works. Not funny, but ironic enough for Alanis Morissette to do a double take, that one thing that the most strict of interpreters in these religions agree on is mairriage of teens — if it’s good enough for Joseph or Muhammed, then must be OK. And they hate magic, specifically, the magic in a young girls heart, they really know how to kill that.

Well the link opens just fine but seeing as how … I don’t do no Facebook , Twitter or any other social media ( heck I don’t even do online financial transactions ) none of the feeds function beyond the title pages .. which is enough to see there’s a fair amount of irony and sarcasm to be found there . I love the irony title of the Facebook page as well .. Truthiness .. kind of like Bigly . Ahhh … the Toddler in Chief and his multitude of incompetent , unqualified , quisling sycophants … hopefully being of a certain age I’ll live long enough to look back on all this … and laugh .. hopefully

Louis… They sure do know how to kill the magic in a young girl’s heart. As for wanting to marry young girls… But of course! It should go without saying, that these Evangelical fake Christians know that young girls are so much easier to mold for a life of servitude and obedience. Best to marry them off young, before they get any bright ideas, such as being independent, in their heads.

PS ; Apologies for the harsh criticism on the previous page . After careful reflection it would of been more appropriate of me to simply point out the fact that parody , irony and sarcasm do not translate well to the internet leaving all open for misinterpretation by even the most astute of readers regardless of the authors intent . For the record as a Maher / Oliver fan despite disagreeing with their views towards faith … I love good sarcasm parody and irony .. but it just don’t work well on the net

In closing let me say not having seen you ’round these parts before .. welcome .

Pence and Moore * are not seeking any form of religious liberty . They are seeking liberty for their interpretation of religion to the exclusion of all others

As for Trump .. he is and has been his own god since his god the father Fred Trump passed away and only uses religion as Hitler did and now Putin does to further his popularity and agendas

* Let us clarify these two’s interpretation of ‘ religion ‘ ;

Pence is a dyed in the wool card carrying follower of Ayn Rand despite his pretense of being Roman Catholic that has been severely criticized and censored by every prominent member of the Roman Catholic Church from the Pope on down .

Whereas Roy Moore subscribes to a gnostic gospel of the good ole boy south deeply steeped in misogyny , bigotry , hatred and racism .

re; Your assertion on Twitter that Trump , Bannon and Moore are rich . The reality is nothing could be further from the truth

Trump -According to DB , my CH banker relatives and all the Middle East and Russian banks Trump has outstanding loans with if Trump were to sell off completely tomorrow .. once all his debts were paid .. his total net worth would amount to $1 million or less .. if that much . Fact is every Trump property including Mara Lago and Trump Tower are in the throws of bankruptcy . Fact is the only thing Trump has in abundance is debt and a lotta hot air .

Bannon – Brietbart is financially in the weeds having lost the majority of their advertising dollars with no other viable source of income .. Bannon himself is in debt up to his fat little L.Ron Hubbard cheeks … and if push came to shove he’d have a hard time rubbing two nickels together … never mind paying cash for a Hershey Bar

Moore – Ahhh .. the biggest joke of the bunch . Take away all the debt , artifice and bs and you’ll find Moore is poorer than the very poorest he despises . And when this weekend he threatened to sue Jeff Bezos’s Washington Post ? Bezos … who is genuinely rich … replied ” Bring it on little cowboy “

What most people do NOT understand that this christianity is thinly veiled penis worship. They value their church’s role in controlling women’s and children’s genitalia above all else. They constantly try to remove women’s freedoms ala “The Handmaid’s Tale.” They OBSESS over men’s rights to do as they please and even condone rape as their god’s will. Do you see the pattern? Rape is the will of their Deity.

So here we have Christian Family Values at their most TYPICAL.

FAMILY VALUES: a patriarchal Religious Reich Euphemism for allowing men to do as they wish to women and children with Instantaneous Forgiveness from their penis-god if caught. A system of action based on penis worship that allows men to do whatever they want to women and children. It also encourages them to control other people’s genitalia while doing whatever their small Deities dictate.

… which when you think about it is truly ironic in light of the multiple heroines in the Bible .. the elevation of Mary ( along with the Roman Catholics veneration of her ) not to mention Paul etc exhortations to respect ones wife and all other women as well .

Ahhh todays so called christianity and hypocrisy . One deeply entrenched within the steely grips of the other

A real predator continues that behavior . There is nothing in Judge Moor’s record other than those two scripted orchestrated manipulating accusations by two women who worked with liberal entities to manufacture the stories they were told to make.
When Judge Moore goes to Washington as Senator of Alabama , he will be The One that will finally pull the plug that drains the smelly swamp and then kick the butts of every liberal, Rino, and establishment politician ,out of office and back to the Abyss where they belong.

This orchestrated manipulated left wing and Rino establishment assault will not fool the wise and angry Alabama voters. Moore is innocent and Jones is a baby killing , homosexual marriage supporting, godless, tax and spend liberal.

Moore has refuted the accusations the only way he possibly could nearly 40 years after the alleged events, BY HIS WORD and the hundreds of thousands of those that know Judge Moore and would testify under oath of his honesty, integrity and other high moral character.
Frankly , You need to end your rebellion and anger toward God . Your dad’s Hyper-Calvinism that your past religious experience consisted of has warped your view and understanding of God. God is not commanding some to believe something that He Himself made it impossible for them to do.
You need to obey from the heart that form of doctrine delivered unto you that is The Gospel.(Romans 6:17), with genuine ,”..repentance toward God and faith toward The LORD Jesus Christ(Acts 20:21)KJB

Oh good lord in heaven … another hypocrite pretending to be a christian ( small case c intentional ) sock puppet troll rises to the surface .

1) Don’t you dare use Scripture to defend the indefensible

2) Ever looked at Moore’s record ? Seen how many times he’s landed in jail ? Looked into why he’s no longer a judge ? Taken the time to dig into the multiple accusations against him over the decades for sexual abuse ?

No ? Thought not .

3) So to put it mildly … can your tin foil hat conspiracy theories and sycophant behavior and place it where the sun never shines .. along side your head that hasn’t seen the light of day since the day you were born ….

4) For your information 90 % of the time men who defend men accused of rape or sexual abuse do so because they’re guilty of the same . So how many skeletons you got hiding in your walk in closet Mr Davis

5) And who am I you may ask ? A bonafide educated and experienced of a certain age Reformation Theologian / Apologist / Philosopher that in a face to face debate would expose you for the hypocritical dross that you are . And should you care to take me up on that challenge ? Any time … any place … anywhere … as long as its public and covered by the press so the world can see what a fool you are

FYI you missed the passages that pertain directly to you … when after the minions claim they’ve done this that or the other thing in Christ’s name He replies ;

” I do not know you ”

And trust me .. in light of your obvious and blatant hypocrisy .. He does not .. know you that is !

And by the way of hypocrite one completely ignorant of the Bible and the Word’s within it .

This ( the US ) is not and never has been either a Christian country nor a theocracy . Fact is there are no theocracies nor according to the words of God in the OT will there ever be another one until Christ’s return

Fact is what you’re calling for is an Ecclesiocracy or alternatively a Hierocracy ( where a church rules the state ) both of which are in direct contradiction to the Declaration of Independence , US Constitution and Bill of Rights

Damn the things you can learn when you read the Books and documents you claim to hold in such high regard rather than using them for doorstops and kindling

Ahh … but of course thats from the ” failing New York Times ” .. that isn’t .. failing in the slightest that is and not from your alt right make America white again conspiracy addled Twitter/Facebook feeds

Hey, warning,, the evangelicals are having their own brand of “experts” voiding all sorts or studies, records, and have come out promoting the idea that pedophilia is OK. No recidivism, nothing bad… Just good old boys who have been misunderstood perhaps led into sin by women, They want to normalize pedophilia….And for some strange unholy reason are succeeding…..

CORRECTION Ed Davis. There are five women who have come forward with very believable allegations of sexual misconduct on the part of Roy Moore. The lastest, Beverly Young Nelson, came forward yesterday showing that Roy Moore signed her yearbook with this inscription: “Roy Moore signed the high school yearbook of one of his accusers, “To a sweeter more beautiful girl I could not say ‘Merry Christmas’…Love, Roy Moore D.A.” And while I am certain that you will come back with something along the lines of: “Signing a school yearbook doesn’t prove that Roy Moore is guilty of sexual misconduct…” The fact remains that should forensic handwriting experts find that the inscription was indeed penned by Moore, that would absolutely throw out his allegations of: “I can tell you without hesitation this is absolutely false, I never did what she said I did. I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.” Indisputably proving him a LIAR!!!

Not only that, but what is also most interesting… Is that in 2015, while Moore was serving on the Alabama Supreme Court, he considered the case of Eric Lemont Higdon, a 17-year-old, who was convicted of raping a 4-year-old at a daycare center. Higdon was found guilty under a sodomy statute that applied specifically to minors, as well another statute prohibiting rape. The second conviction was overturned by an appeals court and sent to the state supreme court for review. Eight justices found that the 4-year-old’s fear of harm from a much older and larger individual was enough to establish “implied threat of serious physical injury” and reinstated Higdon’s conviction. Moore was the only dissent, saying that there was “no evidence in this case of an implied threat of serious physical injury.” And when I say “interesting” I mean that in the context of: Was he setting up a precedent to possibly mitigate any future accusation of rape and/or improper sexual conduct leveled against him?

Furthermore… While I am sure that you lust for the power to impose your beliefs onto others, as do all Alt-Right White Neo-Nazi Evangelical Christo/fascists males … this is still a “quasi-free” country, making for that you don’t have the right to dictate to anyone what they should believe, any more than you have the right to dictate that others should “obey” any particular doctrine whatsoever, with “genuine repentance.”

This Moore thing should be put to rest; seemingly, it belongs to the resident Marxist to bring the perspective to do so.

I’ve said already that Moore’s receipt of support from open fascists [Sebastian Gorka, Stephen Bannon] identifies Moore as a diehard enemy of the working class. His long history includes extremist politics as an advocate of political repression under the tattered ‘law-and-order’ banner, and a refusal to recognize the US Constitution as the supreme law in the US.

Election fraud is the political currency of Republican vote suppression efforts. Massive election fraud does occur; but almost none of it is related to illegal voting. Rather, it is elections themselves that are the fraud, and the election to fill the vacancy created by Sessions’ elevation is a case in point. All you need do is to ‘meet the candidates’ in this spectacle.

The [false] ‘choice’ presented two capitalist parties is that of the ultra-right populism of Moore who claims to fight for Alabama’s rural population against the ‘Eastern establishment’ on one hand. On the other is former US attorney Doug Jones. Jones represents the mainstream corporate interests of the propertied class, and he is very strongly favored in affluent parts of Birmingham, Mobile and Montgomery. Jones, a Democrat, advocates increasing US military spending even beyond the stratospheric level set by Trump. Some choice! Some glorious election!

But the intervention into the campaign by the lengthy Washington Post article is something new. No less than Moore or Jones, this third political attack on the working class no less than the first two requires examination and refutation. To that end, and so that the working class may know the implications of this issue – please note the following:

1] However repugnant the accusations leveled against Moore, there has been no criminal indictment, trial, or judicial procedure in which either the accusers or Moore’s denials can be heard and tested by the rules of evidence. And as the statue of limitations has long since lapsed, there can be no such proceedings.

2] Even if a trial occurred [and it won’t], the premise of Moore’s innocence must remain until due process is served and a jury returns with a finding of guilt. This utterly axiomatic, democratic principle has been totally forgotten in the current atmosphere. Today, accusations of abuse and even rape are assumed true the moment they are made public.

3] Those on the so-called ‘Left’ [actually, the pseudo-Left] who lend credibility to the anti-Moore accusations must deal with the very serious implications of abandoning the premise of innocence until proven guilty.

4] Less than two decades ago, similar allegations were made against sitting President, William Clinton, who – as leader of world imperialism – was waging criminal wars against Serbia, bombing Iraq, attacking Somalia and Sudan, while threatening war against North Korea and China.

The ensuing Republican organized witch hunt headed by Kenneth Starr for Clinton’s impeachment over the Lewinsky affair was denounced by socialists as an attempted political coup [should Republicans fail to get the votes require in the Senate to convict].

5] Supporters of the anti-Moore accusations must consider what precedent they are establishing for the future. If in 2020 a nominally ‘left-wing’ candidate [Bernie Sanders comes to mind] faced similar accusations and reports. It is not hard to imagine Breitbart, Fox and the WSJ making hay with Sanders’ bohemian life prior to entering politics.

6] Overturning the premise of innocence until proven guilty has many implications. If Moore was removed after winning a clear victory in the primary, how would this develop the political consciousness of the working class in Alabama? Those who mistakenly supported Moore against their real class interests would see extreme hypocrisy as a candidate was removed from the race for offenses that were unproven and little different than those leveled against Clinton, Trump and even George H.W. Bush.

7] The successful use of such charges to achieve political ends would encourage fore of the same. The profligacy and debauchery of American political life is evident already. After all, Donald Trump occupies the presidency. But turning elections into referendums on sexual allegations will debase it further still. And whatever debases political consciousness and drives debate into the gutter aids ONLY the right wing which can thrive solely in an atmosphere of ignorance, prejudice, bigotry, slander and corruption.

8] Recall that leading Republicans who condemn Moore do so on an anti-democratic basis. As 2012 Presidential candidate Mitt Romney said, ‘innocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections.’

Moore is to be opposed because he is a despicable, fascistic bigot and enemy of the working class who wants to turn the clock back a century [at least] on the rights of women, blacks, gays, other minorities immigrants, and more. He supports the criminalization of homosexuality. Twice he was removed as chief justice from the Alabama Supreme Court for his refusal to abide by constitutional norms such as the separation of church and state, and for instructing probate court judges to enforce a state law that federal courts overturned.

In conclusion, resistance to such a reactionary and regressive figure requires the political education and mobilization of the working class, including the impoverished white workers of Alabama that Moore addresses out of religious fundamentalism and social backwardness. The current election campaign offers absolutely nothing progressive from the Democrat or Republican platforms. Both candidates are enemies of the working class, and supporting either contributes nothing – in fact it undermines – the political education of working people and confirms them in political illiteracy.

1) In the state of Alabama as well as the majority of the US there is no statute of limitations in regards to rape , pedophilia or child abuse . Fact is federal law prevents any and all statute of limitations on the crimes of pedophilia , rape and child abuse as witnessed by the multiple trials against Priests and the Roman Catholic church . Also there is absolutely nothing unusual or unique about the WP’s dealing with the Roy Moore issue .

2) Therefore if a trial does not happen it would be a miscarriage of justice both state local and federal

3) Innocence before proven guilty only applies to the trial itself .. not the accusations , accusers nor the support for those making the accusations

4) The WhatAboutThis argument is both irrelevant , ludicrous and inane . The sole purpose of which is to distract from the present issue at hand . e.g. What did or did not happen in the past to anyone else has no relevancy upon the case at hand

5) In light of all the ludicrous claims and accusations being tossed around by the likes of Breitbart FoxNews and the entire Rupert Murdoch empire over the last nine years ? Either you’re joking , deluded or completely out of touch with reality .

6) That is a red herring argument based solely on circular argument barely worth commenting on never mind to be taken seriously

7) ” the successful use of such charges to achieve political ends would encourage fore of the same ”

Other than the wording being disjunct …( I’ll assume typo ) have you taken the time and effort to study US politics especially in regards to US Presidential politics and elections ? Suffice it to say … what you’re trying to threaten us with is SNAFU .. with more often than not the AFU coming from the low moral trenches of the GOP . As just a small example over the last 50 years . Nixon Reagan GWB .

8) Wrong ! Once again innocent till proven guilty only applies to the trial process .The reason why so many in the GOP are turning against Roy Moore is in part due to his horrific public record over the last 30 years now exacerbated by the accusations of rape now against him with those taking a stand against Roy Moore finally growing a pair in defense of what once at least called itself the moral majority

In conclusion having been a part of the resistance back in the 60’s and 70’s that brought down Nixon Hoover etc et al ad nauseam … the simple fact is the working class is too busy working as well as too uniformed ( more often volitionally rather than by circumstance ) to enact any real change or resistance . History shows that no populist movement ever enacted has been effective or was a part of any real substantial or actual change with every populist movement historically ending up with worse solutions than the problems they were trying to eradicate . Recent examples ? Trump .. BREXIT .. Boris Johnson .. et al ad nauseam

Suffice it to say though I come from a working class family myself … borrowing the words of John Adams in regards to the common man / working class ;

” Do not give them too much power . I was one of them and I know better ” *

Which is to say gdd perhaps tis time thou doest thy research before coming off all high and mighty trying in vain to take the high moral ground with a string of uninformed ( not to mention extralegal ) ludicrous conclusions , revisionist history and alt facts

As for the ” blessings ” platitudes & attitudes … can it . Culture has made the term both irrelevant and meaningless having been appropriated by everyone from New Agers to atheists and agnostics and all places in between

BWTM .. again … damn it … as for the lengthy WP article that is in fact nothing new at all ?

Had you bothered to do your research before posting this … pile of erroneous dreck you’d of known that it was the WP’s investigative reporters that originally broke the story exposing Moore for what and who he truly is . Which is not only their right .. but their responsibility as well in light of the US Constitution Bill of Rights and the responsibility of having an informed and educated citizenry

First, I must ask the forgiveness of this forum for posting remarks counter to the truth. I indeed stand corrected on the statute of limitations in the State of Alabama and freely acknowledge that it was wrong of me to say otherwise. I also express public thanks to TJ for correcting me on this point. Now I must reduce the public assessment of me much lower.

You reject ‘innocent until guilty in court.’ Then you cavil at all those unsubstantiated accusations against Hillary Clinton.

Which is it?

You are correct that no Left exists in the US. You rightly capitalize ‘Democratic Socialist’ when discussing Bernie Sanders. Claim to be a socialist all he likes – Senator Sanders is no Eugene Victor Debs and certainly no James P. Canon. Moreover neo-liberalism/reformism is a dead end. In the absence of any principled left, it is understandable that the whole political landscape has shifted to the extreme right – with the guilty complicity of the DNC and all.

The term ‘pseudo-left’ depicts several political tendencies. It is generally pro-imperialist. Using the slogans of human rights, it legitimizes or directly supports neo-colonial and military operations abroad. Domestically, it uses democratic phrases, populist slogans and identity politics related to nationalism, ethnicity, race, gender, sexuality, etc. The pseudo-left represents the socioeconomic interests of a privileged and affluent middle class layer that Marxists identify as the petty bourgeoisie. It seeks not an end to, but greater access to social privilege.

The pseudo-left is anti-Marxian and anti-socialist. It embraces postmodernism and subjective idealism. In practical terms, its actions and political operations are counter-posed to the mass mobilization of the working class against capitalist privilege. It tends to be pro-capitalist and nationalist. Accordingly, it opposes class struggle and also denies the essential, central role of the working class in the progressive transformation of society.

We know what Moore is, and Trump and Hillary Clinton and Nixon and Hoover and also Kennedy and others are. And [Oh House of Orange, South of the South, Thornwellian, as touching the confessions, blameless TJ Martin] we know that if the molestation of women disgusts us, our great Kuyperian/Van Tillian/world-and-life-view/etc. theological framework [for you are not the only one here raised on oatmeal and the shorter catechism] seldom moves us to call for the prosecution of our glorious leaders for the deaths of hundreds of thousands and other war crimes against peace and against humanity.

Where do we name James Carter, George H.W. Bush, William Clinton, George W. Bush, Barak Obama or Donald Trump, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State [including Hillary Clinton], Secretaries of Defense, Attorney Generals and Chairpersons of the Joint Chiefs of Staff [including present Chairperson, Marine General Joseph Dunford] in connection with their consent to if not actual participation in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, including children and civilians, and the destruction of whole societies? We talk ad nauseam about counter-cultural Christianity [well, maybe you do; I get no speaking invitations now]. But truly blasphemous/beast-driven imperial crime gets ‘apologized’ into sanctity.

The proletarian economic situation is unsustainable. The party of the bourgeoisie [the 1%] and the petty bourgeoisie [the next 9%] are broadly rejected. Infrastructure, education, health care and community services deteriorate even as the Democrat Party ‘compromises’ on enormous tax cuts paid to the wealthy thereby shifting more tax burden on working people. Boundless treasure pours into the military. The nationalist narrative thins even as political/economic necessity requires the ruling class to push workers to fight more discretionary wars to save Capitalism from itself.

John Adams’ dictum certainly came to fruition in the US. The working class is kept busy and uninformed while public policy and governance is reserved for the ruling class. And what I read leads me to think you wouldn’t have it any other way. But more and more, the Gary Brysons of the world are seeing that they have nothing vested in either ruling class party. They are seeing that you have naught to offer but domestic surveillance, censorship of ‘fake news’ and neo-McCarthy style accusations of ‘foreign’ interference, supported by militarized repression of the citizenry. But with the ground shaking beneath your feet, you’ve no choice. The import of your smarten up ‘quickly’ remark was not missed, TJ.

Replace Breibart/Fox/Murdoch/Moore and Trump incompetence/corruption/personality diversions with the real issues of war/geopolitical crisis and the criminality of the fiscal oligarchy driving it as embodied in Trump? I’m ready! Are you?

I ask because as you know, Marxian analysis of capitalist society identifies three social classes in their relationships to productive process. Bound of necessity in an alliance of mutual hostility, the bourgeoisie and petty bourgeoisie factions of the ruling class struggle for what the other has, while joining to bar proletarian entry into the political process.

Framing this as a Trump / Clinton Foundation conflict plus the Adams’ citation on the exclusion of the working class, you illustrate Marxian orthodoxy in a way no self-respecting socialist can question. If my previous post lowered your opinion of me, you elevated my estimation of your commitment to Marxist theory. You go to the very heart of it. Well done, TJ!

Do your colleagues know how closely your analysis aligns to Marxian theory TJ, or are you still ‘in the closet?’

PS; The correct terminology which describes the overwhelming political majority both on the Left and the Right is .. NeoLiberals .

And for your information there is no Left Wing in the US save for an extremely minuscule minority existing on the fringes of American society . Bernie Sanders is a Liberal and a Democratic Socialist .. not a left winger .

As as for anyone’s past as it pertains to the election process ? Lot of good that did with GWB in light of his long standing record of being AWOL thru out his military career … the fact that Trump has been a pathological liar since his inception into the public eye in the 70’s not to mention avoiding the draft five times due to daddy Fred’s money … etc – et al – ad nauseam

Suffice it to say using the ‘ working class ‘ vernacular

Y’all gots a helluva lot to learn gdd . And ya best do it quickly afer its all too late to matter worth a damn !

Good Lord gdd .. I could easily spend a month of Sundays debunking this latest comment of yours . But for now .. eco .. basta .. and in light of this being the first … here’s hoping you never post anything so erroneous like this here ever again … cause this one’s given me a migraine almost equal to the ones I get from reading Bryson’s alt fact comments . And to be honest .. up till now … I’d of thought a whole lot better of you …

Tell you what gdd .. I and the rest of us might consider putting the Roy Moore issue aside for a moment ( though in light of the evidence as well as my thoroughly debunking your comments putting it to rest is out of the question ) ..

.. the very minute Trump and the GOP put aside all their unsubstantiated accusations against Hillary … the Clinton Foundation * .. Comey and Obama in their futile attempt to distract the publics attention from the real issues at hand including Trump’s blatant incompetency

Fair enough ?

* In light of all the convictions and out of court settlements in regards to the Trump Foundation over the past five years including Trump’s using funds for his own personal use etc .. this is the very essence , pinnacle and epitome of GOP hypocrisy at its ..worst

BWTM .. again … damn it … as for the lengthy WP article that is in fact nothing new at all ?

Had you bothered to do your research before posting this … pile of erroneous dreck you’d of known that it was the WP’s investigative reporters that originally broke the story exposing Moore for what and who he truly is . Which is not only their right .. but their responsibility as well in light of the US Constitution Bill of Rights and the responsibility of having an informed and educated citizenry

Good Lord Gary! This whole thing of clutching to straws ad nauseum, by endlessly repeating yourself in your desperate attempt to hold onto your delirious delusions, is making you come off as a senile superannuated old bugger! Get a grip on yourself! Like it or not, the fact remains that should forensic handwriting experts find that the inscription was indeed penned by Moore, that would absolutely throw out his allegations of: “I can tell you without hesitation this is absolutely false, I never did what she said I did. I don’t even know the woman. I don’t know anything about her.” Indisputably proving him a LIAR! And therein bringing everything he says into question. Kind of the same as when Bill Clinton emphatically said: “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.” Yeah… Yeah… Yeah…. And cows really DO jump over the Moon!!!

FYI Bryson … oddly enough its not hard at all to prove someone was raped ( raped idiot .. not had sex .. raped ) 40 or more years ago . Doubt my words little man ? Just take a look and the multiple convictions in and throughout the Roman Catholic church over the last ten years with many of the cases being 50-60 years old .

As you will with your pathetic Trumpioid addiction . And you can take that to the bank .

PS; Funny that you continually demand proof as to Roy Moore’s guilt despite more than ten women coming forward with many more waiting in the wings and massive amounts of people backing them up whilst so far on my previous challenges to you .. you’ve yet to come up with a single shred of evidence to prove your accusations and claims against myself and other . Exposing your blatant hypocrisy again little one ?

Gary… What part of: Should forensic handwriting experts confirm that Moore did indeed pen that inscription would prove that he LIED about not knowing his accuser do you NOT understand? Also, not sure what would make you believe that I don’t know that it is exceedingly difficult to prove that people had sex 40 years ago, much in the same manner that it is exceedingly difficult to prove that they didn’t… Which is why honesty in such cases is the pendulum (if you will) that will sway people’s opinion. Not that anything I say will make a difference to you. Not when you post things such as: “I have always been annoyed at churches who fly the Christian flag under the American flag. The loyalty of Christians is to God first and foremost, so the Christian flag should be on top of the flagpole…” Which clearly indicates how bad you want an Alt-Right White Neo-Nazi Phallic Christo/Fascist State, or as you would call it… An “Evangelical” State. So, of course, you will turn a blind eye to any of Moore’s misdeeds, and even “selectively” forgive his many transgressions!

Not yet Gary… But should a handwriting forensic analysis prove that he did in fact pen that inscription in Beverly Young Nelson’s yearbook… His credibility will be shot, to where there will be no one in the GOP who’ll want to risk going down with him… But hey! Hope does spring eternal, so you are of course welcome to continue to delude yourself about this country EVER becoming an Alt-Right White Neo-Nazi Phallic Christo/Fascist State. So dream on! Your days of fighting for The White Man’s Last Stand are numbered, so you might as well try to enjoy them by trolling everyone you can with your vehement and ludicrously assinine vitriol!!!

But of course! After all, you subscribe to the Gospel of Financial Prosperity! Good luck with those tax cuts, you are so ardently waiting to come your way. Oh but wait! You are a billionaire with a bachelor’s degree in intellectualism! Now THAT totally explains everything!

The ‘ actual ‘ Gospel ‘ ? You mean the Gospels ( as in plural idiot ) contained in that book you use as a doorstop never having read a word of it as you bow down in worship before the small metal gods of your own creation .

As far as not subscribing to any gospel of prosperity … hmmm .. aint it kind of funny that you continually voice your support for Joel Olsteen .

Finally in as far as any god seeing to your needs . Aint it more than just a bit ironic that you’d make such a claim in light of your constant tantrums and whining like a two year old that just lost its binky ?

Suffice it to say Bryson .. Believers content within the hands of The God Almighty don’t rant and rave like a deranged Scientologist pursuing ‘ Fair Game ‘ online making false , unsubstantiated unBiblical claims and accusations towards everyone and anyone not in complete agreement like some pathetic little troll while openly admitting to contravening Scripture whenever the Words contained within do not suit your precious little needs and agendas .

Actually Bryson you’ve let lose with over a dozen comments and replies since I first came on the site in support of Joel Olsteen every time the subject is broached .

As far as the rest of your inane , infantile and unsubstantiated rant / accusations …

” And it is YOU who rants and raves. And you are so stupid, you don’t even realize it ”

Once again Bryson … wheres the evidence ?

Put up or shut up !

PS; This being at least the 3rd time ( that I’m aware of ) that you’ve conveniently forgotten what you’ve commented on in the past … I am becoming just a tad bit concerned than perhaps you’ve contracted a case of pre – adolescent dementia .

By the way Bryson .. in regards to your most recent ” wah wah boo hoo I want my mommy ” temper tantrum … e.g ” And it is YOU who rants and raves. And you are so stupid, you don’t even realize it ” …. ( FYI temper tantrums are in direct contradiction to the Scriptures you claim to believe in )

Don’t worry little one . Mommy will find your Moore/Trump/Bannon shaped pinky before the end of the day

tj, You are a liar. I have never said anything supportive of Joel Osteen, unless it was something about him having the same freedoms and rights as anyone else. I don’t support what he teaches, and I have never said I do. And you can’t prove that I have.

That is exactly what you continually say you hope and pray to your small metal gods that this country will become . Verbatim . The evidence being right there in your multiple comments and replies for one and all to see .

Once again proving yourself to be the hypocritical liar pretending to be a Christian that you are .

Care to take this to court ? You’ll lose … that is if the judge even sees fit to try the case .