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14:46

<bennabiy>

Anyone here?

14:50

<Hyperbyte>

!ask

14:50

<ltsp`>

ask: Don't ask to ask a question, simply ask it, and if someone knows the answer, they'll respond. Please hang around for at least a full hour after asking a question, as not everybody constantly monitors the channel.

14:54

<bennabiy>

!asked

14:54

<ltsp`>

asked: Sometimes the questions asked, which get flagged as !ask, are actually the question...

14:55

<bennabiy>

:)

14:55

Hi Hyperbyte

14:57

Hyperbyte, are you one of the devs?

15:03

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15:07

<Hyperbyte>

!forget asked

15:07

<ltsp`>

Error: There is no such factoid.

15:08

* Hyperbyte frowns

15:08

<Hyperbyte>

Whatever...

15:15

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15:25

<bennabiy>

heh

15:25

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alkisg, I am bugfixing that line we put in to distinguish between a mint install from a mint server, or a ubuntu install from a mint server. I am about to commit the fix to my repo, and I already requested another merge

15:56

<alkisg>

Hi bennabiy

15:57

* alkisg was just looking about that....

15:57

<alkisg>

Yeah variables set inside subshells aren't exported to the rest of the script...

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16:42

<bennabiy>

Hmm

16:46

alkisg: What was happening before I escaped the ( ) was if I built a normal "mint" build, it was working fine (after I fixed the variable issue) but when I tried to manually set DIST to raring, it was still pulling the mint packages

16:46

<alkisg>

bennabiy: escaped \( is no longer part of the shell syntax, it's a command, like ls or a function call... for example:

the -n behaves very wrong when say, for some reason, someone decides to code foo=false

18:59

<willianmazzardo>

alkisg, hi … me bothering you again ;)

18:59

<vagrantc>

even if they're doing it wrong, it's less clear

18:59

<alkisg>

Hi willianmazzardo, what's up?

18:59

vagrantc: we could remember the DIST name instead of true/false then :)

19:00

(and change the var name a bit)

19:00

<vagrantc>

alkisg: or just use boolean_is_true :P

19:00

alkisg: why the aversion to it?

19:00

<ogra_>

++

19:01

boolean_is_true is coding art !

19:01

<alkisg>

Precious msecs :D

19:01

No, it's not just that...

19:01

<vagrantc>

although ! boolean_is_true always throws me for a loop

19:01

<bennabiy>

heh

19:02

<ogra_>

:)

19:02

<willianmazzardo>

alkisg, the printer situation still the same ONLY in WINE app … i have to close the application and reopen to print again … this work for, i dont know, 10 minutes … and again the printer stop :S

19:02

<vagrantc>

before you know it my brain is in quadrupal negation and i forgot where my shoes are

19:02

<alkisg>

Using boolean_is_true for internal code (not user variables) is like accepting that we have poorly written code, like we don't know what values a var might hold

19:02

Like we can set VAR=1 or VAR=True or VAR=y in different scripts

19:02

<vagrantc>

alkisg: i think it's more clearly written code

19:03

<alkisg>

Kinda like "we allow tabs AND spaces for identation, do it however you like. You can also use arbitrary tab sizes" :P

19:03

* bennabiy attacks whitespace!

19:04

<vagrantc>

alkisg: well, we actually should be using 4 spaces as standard practice ... some code isn't consistant, but shouldn't be *fixed* in the middle of other code changes

19:04

course, that's the only time anyone is going to notice...

19:05

<alkisg>

Hehe, we'll get to tabs another time

19:05

Tabs should be used, because it's necessary for <<-EOF

19:05

The shell syntax doesn't allow spaces there

19:05

<vagrantc>

alkisg: i've just on many occasions encountered the use of -n to test for a boolean, when it was reasonable to set it to false, and gotten very odd behavior.

19:06

<alkisg>

willianmazzardo: let's go to a private tab to not interrupt the others chatting here...

19:06

<willianmazzardo>

ta

19:06

ok

19:06

<vagrantc>

alkisg: and then if it's in our code to sometimes use boolean_is_true, and sometimes use -n, people may not use the right one at the right time

19:06

alkisg: i'd rather just consistantly use boolean_is_true

19:07

those can become precious *hours* of human debugging time

19:08

<ogra_>

++

19:08

<alkisg>

Booleans should only have 2 values. It shouldn't be necessary to call a function everytime one needs to check a boolean. While reading booleans from a configuration file, some parsing (boolean_is_true) would be needed, but when in code, they should be converted to "real, 2 value booleans"

19:09

<vagrantc>

alkisg: i think we disagree here...

19:09

<alkisg>

So boolean_is_true should only be part of a configuration file reading function, it shouldn't even be a public function for all scripts...

19:10

But that's not something that will happen in the ltsp code (at least not in the visible future), so I won't argue more!

19:10

So /me agrees to whatever vagrantc proposes :)

19:10

<ogra_>

internally you dont need boolean_is_true, you have the control ...

19:10

<vagrantc>

but use it anyways, it's siimpler.

19:10

if it were a one-person coding project, maybe...

19:11

<ogra_>

externally people might have the weirdest iseda about what the right value of a boolean is and put it in a config file

19:11

*ideas

19:11

so i would see it completely the other way round

19:11

externally yoou *need* it ... internally its a convenience to have it

19:12

<vagrantc>

alkisg: i understand your logic, but i don't think it's worth the pain of a long debugging session.

19:12

<alkisg>

I think we completely agree, and that we were just talking about it from different views, me from the theoretical side and you from the practical,

19:12

<ogra_>

there were oretty valid reasons back then that boolean_is_true was even written

Actually, if I could even just get the keychain, the plymouth, and set the mirrors to be ready if someone wants to apt-get something else mintish in their chroot, I would be happy

19:22

I think the difference in file size between Ubuntu raring, and mint equiv with just the mint-meta-core is about 12 MB

19:24

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19:25

<vagrantc>

bennabiy: what are the dependencies of mint-meta-core and what are it's exact contents? i.e. dpkg -L mint-meta-core

19:26

* alkisg wonders if the mint code (menu, panels etc etc) are as hacky as its packaging...

19:26

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19:28

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19:29

<alkisg>

Unrelated question... with XSERVER=vesa, some teacher using gnome-fallback has 1024x768 in LDM and 1280x1024 after login (!) without a .config/monitors.xml file... What else could be changing the resolution after login?

I was having funny issues because of a false entry of an LVDS display which didnt exist

19:38

have you checked what xrandr shows on the client?

19:38

<alkisg>

With vesa? or with sis?

19:38

<bennabiy>

either

19:38

<alkisg>

With vesa it shows all the resolutions, and it's 1024x768 before login (set with XRANDR_MODE_0), and 1280x1024 afterwards

19:39

But I can't imagine what changes the resolution after login

19:39

<bennabiy>

the LDM resolution is hard set ?

19:39

monitors setting?

19:39

You can override the default once you log in

19:39

<alkisg>

If XRANDR_MODE_0 isn't set, it defaults to the X default resolution, which would be 1280x1024

19:40

So what I'm wondering about, is, which app changes the resolution... sure, we could write a script that changes it, or use monitors.xml (the gnome screen settings dialog), but it shouldn't be necessary to change resolutions 3 times... :-/

19:40

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19:41

<bennabiy>

Is the monitor trying to mirror another monitor?

19:42

or does it have the ghost LAPTOP display issue?

19:42

12.04 seemed to be pretty buggy with that

19:43

<alkisg>

I think xrandr after login doesn't show a second monitor

19:43

(nor before login)

19:43

I'll check though

19:43

(on Monday...)

19:44

<bennabiy>

that is an interesting thing

19:45

well, I will have to puzzle over how to solve my dilemma. Is it possible to at least commit the change in 000-basic-configuration to change LSB_VENDOR to the lsb_release check?

19:45

even if it is not entirely fixed for reverse compatibility, it does fix the need on mint to build mint clients

19:46

is there a bzr command to roll back to a previous commit?

19:46

<vagrantc>

bennabiy: you should proably start a new branch on top of ltsp-trunk

19:46

bennabiy: at this point...

19:47

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19:47

<bennabiy>

I currently have lp:ltsp on my machine, at current. make a new branch?

19:50

<vagrantc>

yeah, rather than continuing to push to your ltsp-LinuxMint repository ...