Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Karen Duggan

Chris- I hope to God that your pace chart is right! Looking at my goal for my 200 I have been doing it right according to your chart, thankfully. Someone told me I needed to be 2 seconds faster per 50 in w/out and I haven't been able to do it yet!
Time (ha ha) will tell.

I have found it to be pretty accurate. I find it pretty useful for training for the 200, you need to be confident that your "cruising speed" is at the desired pace. (Otherwise I tend to get nervous and take it out too fast.)

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Yea, confidence is at an all time low for me w/breaststroke right now.
I guess I took for granted a natural feeling for it (used to go 35-36s and thought nothing of it). I'm thinking something of it now! If I go a 39 I'm thrilled.

I'm just waiting for something to click again. I have had so many people trying to help me, unfortunately they can't help me "feel" the water...

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Allen Stark

After years of swimming BR with my head facing forward before the 1986 rule change I find keeping my head neutral requires constant attention,but it is one of the key parts of the "modern breaststroke".I consider the other key to be recovering the feet without bending at the hips.If you do both it fairly automatically leads to undulation.
The other points I focus on in every practice and before a race are keeping my elbows in front of my shoulders at all times,getting my feet up to my rear on the kick recovery,getting my feet turned out so my toes face the side of the pool at the catch,and getting my deltoids pressed tightly against my ears through the kick/glide to maximize streamlining.
Another important tip is to accelerate the pull from catch through the recovery so that it is a continuous movement.I like to say that BR doesn't have a recovery as the recovery is a continuous part of the pull.I see many Masters swimming BR pause at the end of the insweep before the recovery getting them caught in the dreaded"prayer position" which just stops your momentum.

Hey Allen, YOUR TIPS WORKED OUT GREAT! Like I said I would do, I wrote your tips on my slate and read them before a timed 200 breaststroke (in pool start). Not only did I take 3 seconds off my time; I felt like I had more energy left in the tank. Keeping my elbows in front of my shoulders made it feel like it was taking LESS EFFORT. Between that and keeping my head neutral I could feel my body position change in the water for the better.

The entire remainder of my workout went better, because of the changes I made in my stroke. I had more energy, because my stroke was more efficient.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Here is another tip:Shoot your hands FORWARD on the recovery ,not up and especially not down.It doesn't matter if your hands are above the surface,at the surface or under it,the important thing is that they are in line with the body as you streamline.Many people(myself included all too often) angle their arms down to increase undulation.Just like moving the arms up and down in SDK to increase undulation it is not only unnecessary it breaks streamline and slows you down.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Allen Stark

Here is another tip:Shoot your hands FORWARD on the recovery ,not up and especially not down.It doesn't matter if your hands are above the surface,at the surface or under it,the important thing is that they are in line with the body as you streamline.Many people(myself included all too often) angle their arms down to increase undulation.Just like moving the arms up and down in SDK to increase undulation it is not only unnecessary it breaks streamline and slows you down.

Allen, thanks for another tip! I think this is one I don't have too much problem doing, though. I just can't seem to get the wave style breaststroke going; mine is quite flat. So, I think my arms are going straight forward, because of this.

One thing I've been wondering about, though: Due to past MAJOR shoulder surgery and nerve damage from thoracic outlet syndrome, I've been advised to avoid a wide outsweep to save my shoulders for the long haul. And, I do hope to be one of those old gals still competing into my 90's! So, my "outsweep" is more like an oval shape, keeping my forearms inside my elbows throughout the entire stroke. It's either swim this way or not at all... So, how limited do you think I will be with this style of breaststroke? I would like to work my way back up to the equivalent of where I was in high school. At the time, I swam a 1:19.6, 100yd breasstroke with no stroke coaching (My coach was a P.E. teacher who didn't know how to swim! ) In the current Motivational Times chart, that would put me between "AA" and "AAA". So, that is my goal now, for my current 45-49 age group classification. At last weekend's meet, my 100 breaststroke was 1:31.89. I have a long way to go to make my goal category for each breaststroke event, but it's my goal and I'm sticking to it! Will a narrow stroke hold me back? I'm working on getting everything else right!

I would appreciate anybody's opinion on this, so fire away. Just be nice!

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Karen Duggan

Yea, confidence is at an all time low for me w/breaststroke right now.
I guess I took for granted a natural feeling for it (used to go 35-36s and thought nothing of it). I'm thinking something of it now! If I go a 39 I'm thrilled.

I'm just waiting for something to click again. I have had so many people trying to help me, unfortunately they can't help me "feel" the water...

Sculling is great for developing a feel for the water. Scull with fingertips down, arms above the head while laying on your tummy, kick lightly if needed to keep a neutral body position. Also, mid point sculling - elbows under shoulders, again fingertips down. Relax and don't worry about going slow - if you are going slow you will feel it better when you "catch" the water.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by ElaineK

Allen, thanks for another tip! I think this is one I don't have too much problem doing, though. I just can't seem to get the wave style breaststroke going; mine is quite flat. So, I think my arms are going straight forward, because of this.

One thing I've been wondering about, though: Due to past MAJOR shoulder surgery and nerve damage from thoracic outlet syndrome, I've been advised to avoid a wide outsweep to save my shoulders for the long haul. And, I do hope to be one of those old gals still competing into my 90's! So, my "outsweep" is more like an oval shape, keeping my forearms inside my elbows throughout the entire stroke. It's either swim this way or not at all... So, how limited do you think I will be with this style of breaststroke? I would like to work my way back up to the equivalent of where I was in high school. At the time, I swam a 1:19.6, 100yd breasstroke with no stroke coaching (My coach was a P.E. teacher who didn't know how to swim! ) In the current Motivational Times chart, that would put me between "AA" and "AAA". So, that is my goal now, for my current 45-49 age group classification. At last weekend's meet, my 100 breaststroke was 1:31.89. I have a long way to go to make my goal category for each breaststroke event, but it's my goal and I'm sticking to it! Will a narrow stroke hold me back? I'm working on getting everything else right!

I would appreciate anybody's opinion on this, so fire away. Just be nice!

Watch some video of Rebecca Soni.Her pull is not narrow like yours has to be but she has practically no insweep and is blazing fast.If she can do it so can you,just really focus in getting everything from your pull that you can without hurting yourself but also use your kick and timing and you'll be fine.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Allen Stark

Watch some video of Rebecca Soni.Her pull is not narrow like yours has to be but she has practically no insweep and is blazing fast.If she can do it so can you,just really focus in getting everything from your pull that you can without hurting yourself but also use your kick and timing and you'll be fine.

I never noticed that before. You're absolutely right. She outsweeps and then lunges. I gotta try that!

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Question out there for anyone that could have some good advice. My breaststroke has kind of fallen apart since December, my timing feels off and I cant get a good tempo going. I know a major part of it is my pullouts which I need to work on big time. But one thing I really want to work on right now is fixing the timing of my stroke, so if anyone knows any good drills for this that would be very helpful. I know about fly kick, br arms...Just wanted to see if there was anything else out there that I could use during practice.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Knightswimmer2

Question out there for anyone that could have some good advice. My breaststroke has kind of fallen apart since December, my timing feels off and I cant get a good tempo going. I know a major part of it is my pullouts which I need to work on big time. But one thing I really want to work on right now is fixing the timing of my stroke, so if anyone knows any good drills for this that would be very helpful. I know about fly kick, br arms...Just wanted to see if there was anything else out there that I could use during practice.

Try swimming underwater breaststroke for 25s. I forget who suggested it to me here, but it has really helped my stroke. You can feel the dead spots in your stroke and see yourself slow down by watching the tiles go by. I count my pulls to measure improvement, and I am now doing the 25s in half the pulls from when I started.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Originally Posted by Peter Cruise

Matt, I always find a 2 kicks 1 pull drill useful for timing, don't know exactly why it works but it does for me.

Yes! When my breaststroke starts feeling off and like I'm swimming uphill and out of whack I switch to alternating 25s of double-kick breast and breast pull with dolphin kick. Doing that for a couple hundred usually makes it easier for my regular breast to come together.

The key I find with the 2 kick 1 pull drill is to treat it as taking a regular breaststroke pull/kick timing followed by an additional kick-only while in streamline. For the drill to be really useful you want the pull and first kick to be your normal timing. Basically I find the drill allows you to really stretch out your breaststroke without slowing down so much during the long streamline that it's hard to follow with a proper pull. The other often-used drill of "stretch-out breast" where you glide for a few seconds after the kick always screws me up, you slow down too much during the glide and your body position gets out of whack and makes the next pull awkward.

Probably used way too many words for something so simple. But I love this drill, it's also my favorite drill to warmup breast before a race. It always makes my stroke feel fast after doing a 50 of double-kick followed by a 25 of fast regular breast.

Re: The Breaststroke Lane

Another good breaststroke timing drill is to do vertical breaststroke, but it's best done with someone watching you. The goal is to stay at the top of apex as long as possible - straight up and straight down means you are kicking too early, and up and then up again means you are kicking too late. Up and then pause means your timing is perfect.