Both names and tripcodes are optional. You can choose any name you want, or you can post as anonymous by leaving this field empty.

Tripcodes are a way to identify yourself between posts without having to register with the site.
To use a tripcode, enter your name as ‹name›#‹key›.
You can choose anything you want as the key –
it is private and will never be shown to other posters or stored on the server.

If you want a tripcode containing specific words, you can download a program designed to search for tripcodes,
such as Tripcode Explorer.

Email

Entering an email is optional.

There are also code words you can enter here which perform certain actions when you submit your post.
A few of these are sage, which lets you post without bumping a thread, and noko and noko50, which redirect you to the thread or the last 50 posts instead of the main board after you post.

noko and noko50 can be used at the same time as an email address by typing ‹email›#noko.

i'd like to discuss a unique opportunity today, and i do hope all of you will find it interesting! i'm working on a major collaboration with EQDaily to help boost /fic/ and make it into an even more fun place to be!

What would you like to see in a collaboration? We already have the training grounds, but there's just so much more we could do!

Let me know your suggestions and i will do my best to see if we can bring fun things to /fic/!

While i'm here, feel free to e-mail me any board related suggestions as well. i'd love to see if we can improve the /fic/ experience for the growing community here.

>>111864This is more of a question, really, but if the Prereaders Q&A doesn't already do this, would a weekly or monthly Writing Workshop (like I currently do), run by notable prereaders (EqD)/reviewers(/fic/)/authors (fimfiction) be a good idea? Whether to have interviews on their job or works, or to discuss specific topics, through Livestream or, say, a podcast.

>>111866>>111866So... what they are currently doing, but on ponychan? I remember them saying they didn't have live activities because they would only bring trouble to them, so that's out, and the other activities are carried out normally in EqD which has more traffic.

>>111867I did note that I didn't know what goes on in the Q&A, so if I'm mistaken and they already have something like this, then disregard me.

However, I was implying that it would a collaboration of EqD and /fic/ staff, not that it would exist on PChan. It would be on EqD for the traffic, of course. I was merely discussing a potential way to bring our communities together through a project of sorts.

What would bring closer mean? Aren't a bunch of ex-/fic/er in EqD? And spend their time here? And send the people they reject here? And get events here announced over there?

I am just not sure what exactly would that mean short of /fic/ being declared an official resource of EqD, and if the collaboration exists, what would be the point of involving Ponychan rather than the current situation where people here contribute greatly to EqD?

I read /fic/ regularly but am only mildly interested in EQD's fan fiction activities, so I think a collaboration would be an excellent idea. If there were a workshop where writers of all skill levels could voice their ideas on how they write and such, that would be good. In other words, even if you don't have a lot of fans or haven't gotten published on EQD, we could all speak as though we were accomplished, and then the tension of,"Oh, he's a pre-reader; he must know so much more than me" might be alleviated. I think that most writers, including EQD staff, are just regular folks when you get to know them.

>>111884This sounds good. Well, this however sounds more like an EqD thing than a Ponychan thing, because that doesn't really contain anything this can do for it. The thing would probably happen in livestream, the annoucement will get more attention in EqD than here, and the records would appear in Google docs or FiMfiction. Where does Ponychan fit there to do something better?

We will have an X number of pools with prizes for each, those pools separated into divisions (perhaps separated by subject matter?)

Each pool will have it's own thread where ponies can submit stories and discuss stories, too. Maybe, along the way, the story writers will use /fic/ to help fix and make their stories better?

Judging will be done by a joint team of EQDaily ponies and Ponychan /fic/ ponies- they will offer commentary, but ultimately the decisions will be done via popular vote (system to be determined, but I've plenty of experience with polls, as some of you may know!)

i can do a formal write up sometime and, not to worry, i've plenty of lovely things for prizes.

The competition will revolve around Ponychan and it will be a great way to have fun.

>>111894Sounds like the write-off if I'm honest, to not say it is completely the write-off except for the fact you don't get time to improve your story and you don't seem to get a straight out prompt.

But enough of that: why don't we use EqD's position as a hub of artist to bring about collaborations amongst various branches?

For example, rather than a prompt, a couple of artist would make a drawing, people vote on a set of three images they would like to be use as a base for a story, and then stories get written about them.

Or better: elimination teams, where authors are randomly assigned and they have to collaborate or fail both.

What is the difference? They encourage interaction, and its easier to interact in an imageboard than the comments of eqd.

>>111894If the authors are actively/openly getting their work improved/reviewed, then it's much easier to determine who wrote what, and that can greatly influence any popular vote. Editors could volunteer to help with the entrants, or could team up with authors...

>>111897I like the sound of elimination teams personally. One could randomly pair entrants into teams, or against each other, or teams against each other who could then write a story based on some given criteria in a tournament style.

The biggest problem I can see with the contest (and with the write-offs now) is the volume of words versus quality influencing the number of votes. Unless there's some kind of "pre-reading" for entries before the public voting, what is there to make sure the stories are good enough not to waste the time of the voting public? I'm just spit-balling my thoughts at the moment, so forgive me if I'm not entirely coherent.

>>111903On second thought, why do we need better relationshipts with EqD? We all know that the relationship between it and the local community is strong, any activities we do together are bound to just overshadow the Ponychan part of it (the write-off could be done directly from FiMfiction for example).

>>111897>>111905The idea of assigning partners seems inherently flawed to me. Say you get 10 entrants. Well, entrant number 1 isn't a great writer and doesn't like to listen to advice and wants things done his way. This dooms his partner. Another example: what if two people with drastically different styles get paired together?

Letting people choose their teams is much better for their sanity, quality, and ability. It wouldn't be fair to pair a great writer with someone who sucks and thus doom the great writer. If they get to pick, no one can blame the random pairing for losing. They'd only have themselves. Basically, don't let the system influence the outcome; let people decide the outcome.

I think that having an event to unify and strengthen the relations between medium-specific fans (e.g. literature, art, music) and between sites (e.g. Ponychan and Equestria Daily) is a wonderful idea. My proposition would be to have a chain event, wherein a prompt and two mediums are chosen (e.g. Cutting Ties; visual arts and writing). Entrants then send in works based off the prompt. A panel of judges will sort through and rate the entrees, choosing however many winners/runners-up necessity mandates. The top two first place fanworks are then swapped (in this example, the winning picture is given to the writers and the winning story is given to the artists), and they become the new prompts. The works derived from these prompts are entered into the second phase of the competition, and a popular vote decides the winners of the second stage.

Another idea is some kind of Anthology, wherein the goal isn't so much to win by placing highly, but to get into the anthology, which would then be posted to EqD. There would be a catch, however: the standards for getting into the anthology would be higher than even EqD is currently. Both an editor's choice (judged entrees) and a reader's choice (popular vote) could be included.

Yet another one would be to have an award, possibly part of a separate/existing competition, for something like "The Smartypants Award For Retrospective Fiction" or somesuch, which are given to various entrees.

These’re actually quite silly ideas, imagining all the man-hours and resources that they would require, but those are my unabridged ideas in case they, however unlikely, inspire far better. Apologies for the rambling, though I find the prospect of collaboration in general exciting.

Whut abouts the idea of fanfic spotlighting? Y'know, Pegasus Quill, Solar Flare, etc. The tl;dr is that some people out there feel that EQD's minimum standards are a bit too low for their cultivated tastes, and they wanted something that only approved the creme de la creme. So the proposal was some type of e-zine that would spotlight the absolute best in pony fanfiction, with a couple of established readers doing the cherry-picking.

The idea was always presented as a competitor to EQD and FimFic. However, here we are talking about EQD-/fic/ collabs... And EQD recently lost their own means of highlighting fics (6-star)... And this spotlight service could be run by a staff from /fic/, separate from the EQD prereaders, so that both groups can be loathed for their own reasons the prereaders won't have to deal with accusations of bias, like back in the day when they'd put "Very good! -Prereader #86" comments in the synopsis. The spotlight staff would get accusations of bias, but duh.

>>111925>the prereaders won't have to deal with accusations of bias, like back in the day when they'd put "Very good! -Prereader #86" comments in the synopsis.Since star-ratings got axed, they're doing this again. When they remember to.

When brainstorming these events, there's one things that you should always keep in the back of your mind: What benefits does the participant get that participating is more beneficial than writing solo?

The amount of time and effort that goes into producing even a short story is quite significant, and nobody wants to waste it on some gimmick. Tag-team authors and the like just seems ridiculous, really. I mean, this is just me, but for each event I spend at least 15 solid hours writing, brainstorming, and editing my entry. Do I want to commit that much time to come out with something tarnished by the context of a contest? Not really.

I've striven to keep my events as close to natural writing as possible. In the write-off I'm very lenient on prompt relevance to the point where it pretty much doesn't matter (beyond the knowledge that readers do dock points for stuff that isn't related to the prompt). At the end of the write-off, the stories are self-standing, and many participants go off to have their work submitted and posted to EqD, etc.

>>111894Like the anon said, that sounds pretty much identical to the write-off. If you wanna run that instead, be my guest. But (being modest here) do know that I've set a pretty high standard as far as organisation is concerned. Making sure 30+ stories are properly formatted, normalised, and uploaded isn't exactly easy.

We give a prompt to the /art/ists, and they draw stuff that looks like cover-art. All the pictures are collected and put into a gallery, and then the /fic/ side of the contest runs identically to the write-off—only instead of the prompt, the authors choose one of the pictures to write their story to.

The winner of the /art/ side of the contest would be whoever's picture was used by the most authors—whichever picture inspired the most stories.

/fic/ authors come out of it with some cover-art, and the /art/ists come out of it with a story (or many stories) for their art.

>>111928>We give a prompt to the /art/ists, and they draw stuff that looks like cover-art. All the pictures are collected and put into a gallery, and then the /fic/ side of the contest runs identically to the write-off—only instead of the prompt, the authors choose one of the pictures to write their story to.

I would fully support this or something similar. The only problem I could see arising is a lot of individuals using the same image for cover art. Though, I suppose that hasn't stopped writers before. :P

>>111925That sounds like a decent idea, though I don't think it was the intention. I took it as a way to bring people together to have fun creating, not simply selecting stories for the benefits of the readers (even though I'm greatly for that kind of cherry-picking if it gives readers good reads).

>>111934MLPG on /mlp/ has done this kind of thing before. N writers and N artists were paired (I think randomly), and then the artist would draw something for something the paired writer had written and each writer would write something for something the paired artist had drawn. If I recall correctly, they called it the Friend-off.

Or something. BillyColt and SlyWit would know. Squeak probably would too, but I'm not sure if he was in that.

In any case, that's a structure we could follow or modify to however we need to.

>>111936More-or-less, just with the details ironed out. Specifically:> people vote on a set of three images they would like to be use as a base for a storyI found to be unnecessary, since the "voting" is done by the authors when they choose a picture to write to.

Hey there !!Fluttershy, nice to see you here. >What would you like to see in a collaboration?Collaboration you say? That reminds me of something I used to do on 4chan before I came here. I called it Crapfiction. Basically I made the post telling everypony to post whatever they wanted, and it would absolutely be used in the story. The final result was always a trainwreck, but a lot of it came from massive amounts of r34 suggestions.

If we could do a collaborative crapfiction here, it would probably still be a story on crack, but it would likely be more coherent due to the site rules. What about it ponies? Good idea or bad?

>>111903Dude, you just read my mind. Art inspired fan fictions are the best, just look at rainbow factory I've read some pretty good stories inspired entirely by a single image or song. One of them even came through my queue, I think Tamar wrote it.

>>111971>If we could do a collaborative crapfiction here, it would probably still be a story on crack, but it would likely be more coherent due to the site rules. What about it ponies? Good idea or bad?Bad. We've tried this twice before. It doesn't work unless all involved are completely indifferent to how bad the result is.

>>111983>>111973I think you're getting confused with our collaborative stories. I believe the point of this is that everyone just spits out a throw-away scene and then the author tries to tie a thread between each one.

>>111988Basically this, but ideas don't have to be full scenes; you can just say "Rainbow Dash gets a hooficure" and it goes in. The challenge is to create a somewhat coherent story between them, and often multiple authors will produce their own take on the story. It can be a lot of fun.>>111973>It doesn't work unless all involved are completely indifferent to how bad the result is. Everypony involved submitting their own version removes that factor. Results are usually hilarious anyway, at least the ones *I* started were.

>>111987I had the hugest deja vu when I read that, but it's gone now. These are getting really weird.

>>112010I am sure I'm not alone when I say I want to see a good one of these been made. I seen a couple which the plot was: Luna might not love me/Celestia might not love, add angst here, revelation, acceptance of this and talks about fears of the future over this decision. And if it's one of those, Royal pile.

>>112012Ah ha! I actually think I understand this. It is due to the natural tendency of shipping in the MLP fandom combined with the faux pas of the topic. I know that makes barely any sense, so example time.

Let's say you were to sort out all the Rainbow Dash x Applejack shipping stories. All of them. The good and bad. You'd find all of those categories you listed, but there would be one other category. The good ones, the ones that either use the other categories well or develop it naturally. These are the results of good writers writing that ship because they're interested in it. Now, if we apply this to CelestiaxLuna, there is an interesting occurrence. The number of writers is much lower, and rarely will you find a really good writer. They don't want to write it because of the stigma.

>>112010What, you think I didn't stick around to see how they ended? Or were you referring to the two that took place here in /fic/? I'll admit I wasn't here to see how bad the two here were, but of the ones that I started on 4chan/mlp/, they were all terrible, but they were hilariously bad in such a way that we all laughed at them, and had a real fun time writing them too. I think If we could all accept that it's going to be terrible from the start, and just learn to laugh at it, then it might just be really fun. I'll probably end up hosting it myself, that way I could write the OP and explain it clearly for everypony.

>>112071Well I didn’t take the time to read the whole thing because I have a review to finish, but I might later. Immediately upon opening the first one I can tell Seattle is a fan. It looks like I should do this. Just you wait; I’ll make this awesome. I might just move it to /oat/ though, if it’s not accepted well here. Still I hope that it can become a fun thing here.

>>112105Well... I don't think we're very creative, but I do think we are extremely efficient. In my opinion, all of the items listed should be done.

My real question is though... how do we take these from idea form to actual existence? And how do we accomplish the goal of involving ponychan AND EQD?

Personally, I think EQD could easily use PC as a hub for writers for their contests or vice versa. The only thing we would need to make this happen is a liaison for people to contact, someone where people who want to hold tournaments and get air time on EQD could go to advertise on EQD. In other words, it's great that we want to have a contest that gets advertised on EQD, but that'd be like the write off - NOT SAYING THAT'S BAD. I'm saying that we need more of it, actually. This liaison could be the person who creates a bridge between would-be contest maker and getting an add on EQD. All of our contests, including the one we are brainstorming for here, could benefit from this.

My second thought... Rodger's write off needs front page. That's a no brainer.

Next through: This fandom badly needs a spotlight or an anthology. So many people say "I loved this one fanfic! I wish I could find more... except most fan fics suck". Therefore I propose a sort of formal voting system that is conducted via this very image board. Each week a list of fics could be suggested in a thread, then the members of ponychan would vote on which ones are the best. They would add a ranking, and if enough people say the fic is good, then the fic would get featured on EQD. Ideally this would be different from fimfic because the people here are more critical. We could also mandate that the fic be somewhat anonymous. I'm not sure if this will yield a better review system, but it is something that could be much more easily done than other ideas in the past, such as a small group of people reading all of the fanfictions ever written and selecting their favorite.

The prereader's workshops should be done, but before that they should probably nail down what gets a story rejected and what gets a story approved. I hear that's very inconsistent. Also I don't see this as something that involves PC at all. The thread they have is pretty good already, so it's kind of a mute idea from the PC perspective imo.

>>112110>This fandom badly needs a spotlight or an anthology... I propose a sort of formal voting system that is conducted via this very image board... Ideally this would be different from fimfic because the people here are more critical... I'm not sure if this will yield a better review system, but it is something that could be much more easily done than other ideas in the past, such as a small group of people reading all of the fanfictions ever written and selecting their favorite.

I feel... conflicted. On the one hand, this is more-or-less exactly how the Write-Off was handled, and I was happy with the outcome because everyone involved was so critical (afaik). And even though the Write-Off was advertised on EQD, the number of voters was pretty low (20), another indicator that everyone there was treating it like SRS BSNS, as well they should. However—and this is the key—the prize was a gold star. Alternatively, consider how much people freak out about getting onto EQD period, or about getting 6-star when that was a thing. If you put that purely in the hands of the public, you just end up with the featured box all over again. I guess what I'm saying is that I like this place's jerkass hipsters.

Maybe a compromise? It starts with some sort of public voting, or a recommendation thread akin to the existing one here. With enough unique votes or recommendations, the fic gets added to the reading queue of a group of, say, eight established reviewers from /fic/. Three thumbs up and it goes in the anthology. That way, the committee doesn't need to read every fic in existence, and not everyone on the committee needs to read every fic on their queue since it needs less than a majority of votes.

And yes, like I mentioned, a committee would inherently be biased, but so what? Essentially every literary critic is. If someone didn't like the opinions of this committee, they should organize a competing spotlight site. I'd welcome it.

>>112117I'm not very worried about people rigging this. How many people actually have a small army of people who will go onto another website to vote up their fanfics?

On top of that, there will be discussion about them in the thread. If one fic has a ridiculous number of votes but it has no positive feedback in the thread, then I'd say someone should validate whether it is actually worthy, sure, but I don't think it needs to be so formal as a committee of 8 people.

I think it should be as simple as possible because simple things usually succeed where complicated things usually don't.

>>112123>How many people actually have a small army of people who will go onto another website to vote up their fanfics?I'm less worried about this and more worried about, say, Ponyfall. i.e. something getting upvoted because it's... "popular"... when the goal is to only admit quality fics. I was harping the committee idea because it's usually easier to trust a handful of established people to be objective, moreso than thousands of anons. Still, I concede your point re: simplicity.

>>112117Which is why literary criticism takes so long to establish something as good and generally involves a large public of individuals having their opinions dismissed, experts or not, and with this long process of general approval or disapproval acquiring those whose writing is truly deserving of the so called "Universal" label. This label is not gained by the usage of scholars in deep rooms, despite the fact that quite a lot of the work is done by them, but rather by general populations which look back into the books of the past and see which has survived the burning fire of memorability, which either involves openly engaging as many people to read a particular text or allow time to keep the suggestions going as they fit, with their relevance increasing down the line as people remember those stories which touch them the most (to use yet another possibly unobscured answer, how many can remember the plot of most Goosebump books?). In other words, you either bring large populations to read and get appreciation for the different content, or you allow time to naturally weed out the stories which were not to survive out of their own accord, with such gems as The Bridge of San Luis Rey being superseded by others such as We, which in turn have been superseded by The Great Gatsby, all because of how each of these had a greater impact upon its reader than the work before it as a side note, if you have not read any of those works, go.

But why is that? Close groups are effective in creating standards, and mostly keeping them for the most part, but slowly but certainly become terribly biased as a group out of no malice but rather the very same standardization which makes them so. I would point to the Nobel prizes, to the Academy Awards, or to so many other groups, but there is no real point it, for I would have to speak of Borges, Zola, and Twain, for names you are unlikely to remember even if I were to mention it (although my hat goes off to those with English Majors which can recognize Bjornson, Mistral, or Solzhenitsyn, for I can only hope you have dealt with their translation), and mention endless numbers of movies which most have never seen and most likely would fail to understand (language wise).

In essence, any selected group of individuals not selected by a large population that also has a voice to support of contradict said believes will inevitably grab memorable literary works and throw them aside. This is what occurred to Moby Dick (to use a less obscure example) and many of its brethren on their own times, amongst much praise for far less memorable works.

I personally do not oppose a new voting regime, I just fear we are going to arrive to just another layer of the same process which has rendered the Nobel prize such a terrible gauge of the true value of literature of any given time.

>>112125I think the main downside of the feature box is that it creates "popular" fics because when a fic makes the feature box people see it. It's a self feeding loop. This wouldn't be a self feeding loop at all. So if we were to put something like Bubbles or MLD in the list then people might go "OMG I LOVE THIS FIC PERFECT 10!!!", but if we were to put something that just made the feature box then it might still get votes but not as if it were on the feature box.

Another idea is to have categories. So if for example the fic has already been on EQD, then it would go into a "Already featured on EQD" bin. Other examples of bins would be: Genre, length, and Unfeatured.

To explain:

Genre is pretty obvious. We'd include it simply for the people who want to read it.

Length would separate the ongoing fics from the one shots.

Unfeatured would be fics that have not been in the feature box or on EQD.

One interesting question would be how the voting would work. I'd think that a weekly little competition would be sort of fun. People could submit anything and see how the fic does. On the other hand I also think that requiring a specific number of votes might be required. So if we get seventeen fics and one or two of them only get a couple of reads, but those reads were both perfect 10's, I don't think that should get it featured. So maybe a certain number of votes would be required.

Oh. Another thing I was going to say was that we could add in something that had people put in a comment as to why they voted the way they did. Then we could give that feedback to the authors in a google doc with the next thread.

>just another layer of the same processPegasus Quill and Solar Flare weren't originally my ideas, so I don't intend to put words in the mouths of their proposers. But at least with my own embracement of the idea, I suspect that "just another layer" is exactly what I was proposing, and I'm okay with that. For the volume of fiction that this community puts out, there's a noticeable lack of serious critiquing. Chris from One Man's Pony Ramblings comes to mind, and a few less-renowned alternatives, but that's basically it. FimFiction's featured box doesn't fill that need. Being accepted by EQD doesn't fill that need (if you missed it, EQD's prereaders recently likened themselves to the Oprah Book Club). As a community, we haven't really much grappled with the equivalent of the guy reviewing movies for the local town paper, let alone a Siskel and Ebert, Acadamy Award, and so forth. I'd think we have several baby steps left to go—and as you point out, a need for historical perspective—before we'd be capable of evaluating the "true" literary merit of this community. When sufficient time has passed, there will be a chance to reevaluate a piece's permanent impact on the community's mind; I believe the proposal here seeks a goal which is less lofty yet still worthwhile.

This does, however, presume that this proposal is a baby step in the right direction. I'm okay with this idea accomplishing no more and no less than it sets out to accomplish. However, I wasn't clear if you were implying that this type of evaluation could only evaluate a "false" sense of merit (to which I'm personally in the "something is better than nothing" camp), or if you were implying that the clique-ish nature of such a system could in fact poison the discussion (which would obviously be quite bad). It's a fair point to mention that this community has historically had a problem with contextualizing. Look no further than how much value is placed on being accepted on EQD. I suppose the community impact of having an EQD-sanctioned anthology should be considered.

>>112115>A rotating panel of judges might work to prevent bias... and we could submit our Ponychan Best of the Best from /fic/ every so often to EQD!So, like Ponyfiction Vault, except we have our spotlight on EqD instead?

Seems... eh.

>i think i will process your post for a bit longer- i would love to involve /art/ in a potential project, or even /merch/, but that will take quite a bit of time for me to piece together.I've already begun a draft email to send to a few /art/ regulars to gauge their opinion on the idea. If all goes well, I should be able to incorporate the idea into the next write-off (which is in about 2 weeks).

>This sounds like fun! But i'm not sure how this would involve EQDaily except for a post there.That's sort of the thing with an "EqD" collab, though, isn't it? What are they providing but a spotlight? That's all the blog is—a place to push content to an audience.

>i believe that /fic/ has something that no place else has and a spark of creativity that cannot be found elsewhere. We can make something very special with that if we work together ^^You have to remember that writing is a solitary task. Of course you don't write a story entirely solo—you need peer-review, because nobody can spot all of their little mistakes—but most of the actual writing is done alone. The social aspect, like has been said many times before, does often rather detract from the production of good writing.

With these ideas, always ask: How does it benefit the participant?

Secondarily, simplicity, like Raharu has said, is important. A lot of these ideas are getting far too convoluted to seem to me as anything but poorly thought out. You're trying to compete with someone's time spent writing alone, and to be frank, that time is quite valuable.

I have no new assignments for at least four months, I can spare the time.

>>112132The issue would be a cycling panel of whom? I have a lot of appreciation for the reviewers here, but unless I have been misinformed the current group is about twenty-seven people strong (with most of them not reviewing) and they are, for the most part in close interaction by various means. The other subcommunities have, sadly, become rather inactive (and one of them, from the origins and for a time widely support by all boards, known as the “I’m pregnant and it’s yours”, is seemingly dead) making it so that the only group that can realistically carry this being the reviewers. This, in essence, creates a close group with jumping hats, which is no different from a large group in terms of dangers of standardization and bias.

For such a regime to work, the judges would have to be cycled constantly, would need to be from as varied a background as possible, but most importantly, they would need to be asked to revisit all stories which might have come before them in order to achieve long-term consistency about such matter. In other words, choosing the judges as a normal selection would involve quite a lot of people and quite a lot of rounds to arrive to anything consistent, the alternative being risking the aforementioned problems in my previous post.

It is indeed what you are proposing, as did the concept of Solar Flare and Pegasus Quill once they had finally settled into “something”, one which appears to be effectively dead and the other one which seems to not be doing rather much. Their purpose as new source of criticism and revisiting was something both of their creators spoke of with me (one more than the other) and indeed it is something which would benefit the fandom to a great extent, despite being built upon a system which is flawed to begin with for both my previous post and the post about FiMfiction. My point is just,for the most part, that the system would benefit from recognizing that a close, selected group of individuals has a terrible track record at being actual good judges as to what will become memorable in the future, as does a widely uncontrolled masses. What does work, however, is making the masses have to give opinions rather than ovations to specific things, which generally results in a standard view which fits the actual final results. Lacking a place to carry this out in any organized manner, the alternative of cycling and ensuring that the cycling is as varied and as wide as it can possibly be, and as self-correcting as the system would allow, is one that has to be considered for it derives both from the fact that we lack any sort of real criticism in an organized fashion, but that we lack it because the system does not encourage said analysis. I personally find the notion of another layer to be a neutral endeavor but that the way it is carried out must recognize the fact that there must be safeguards against the very same things which are making this new layer be needed at all.

And I have seen Chris endeavors and I salute them, but they are plague by the fact that his dataset is flawed: the criterion for getting a Six-star label was always a reasonable sounding one, but as their elimination should point to, ultimately lacking in any terms of actual scrutiny. In essence, the only thing that separates Chris endeavors from just jumping into FiMfiction and grabbing stories randomly there is that his number of stories has been greatly reduced, but sadly there is no actual reason to believe the stories would be up to par, regardless at which point in time they were posted. I salute Chris for what he does and find that his work is quite a good guide to help others know there wheres and hows, but in many ways it is basically damage control for a broken system.

The FiMfiction box would require far more time than I’m willing to give to fully critique, but let us just say that the system could use a bit of a change, mostly related to a control which makes the story stop counting its own likes and favorites after it reaches there, for starters, amongst a bit of reeducation of those readers there, and plenty else. In short, it needs quite a lot of work before it goes beyond being a list of the top ten hits of the week a lá Billboard, which has a terrible tendency of not having the songs which people listen to after all the hype is gone.

Oprah’s bookclub? I have always thought them more along the lines of Glamour’s editors and letters revisers (from the readers who try to get their point through the magazine) than Oprah’s bookclub as they aren’t looking for suggestions, they come to them, but I am just being silly. The EqD prereader system and the problems I have with it are an essay all on its own, because it involves the process of actually getting a story to be published, human nature, and too much for I to put in here. Perhaps in another occasion. For now, it is best to say I would enjoy if an alternative existed, but that is beyond me for now. Spoilered for a terrible attempt at humor.

And yes, time or people, a lot of people. I am not saying this is not a good thing, I am just saying that it does not really fix the problem but rather try to alleviate inherent weaknesses, and thus we need to ensure it doesn’t become a part of the weakness itself to the best of the ability of said organizing.

As for your question: both. The first one because of reasons aforementioned, with the caveat that I believe that this is better than nothing, and the second one because small, secluded groups inevitably fall into the traps of their own orthodoxy. The first one is less of an issue in the long –term, a single author missed is indeed a terrible thing but sadly it is unavoidable except in a perfect world, but the second one makes the whole thing become dangerously useless in my opinion. The inability to comprehend what exactly something means will inevitably just create another group which we will look to in the future and wonder where exactly did they get such thoughts. This my insistence in making sure the cycling is both varied and as open to people as possible, but in particular, open to revisiting if so came the case.

As for an EqD supported Anthology, I can presume that would be a good way for advertisement, but that is more or less all EqD can really offer, if this board is any guide. But then, free publicity is good publicity they say.

In other words, I am an old man rambling my mad opinions.

>>112181Ponyfiction Vault is a single man who doesn’t make an appearance in EqD, and for the most part does not take time to evaluate why a story is good, why a story did such and such things right, and such and such things wrong. That said, it is not its purpose, the purpose is to highlight stories which the owner found particularly enjoyable, allow easy access for downloads, and give a bit of insight into those who are writing the story, while this idea seems to be aimed at more of an evaluation of the story, which makes this an oranges to apples sort of situation.

Good thing. I am certain they would be open to it. I have to speak with you about your event on a later occasion.

While I was writing this, my doorbell rang. I opened the door; there was an attractive female outside. She immediately face-heel-turned and said, "Wrong door." okay.bmp

>>112217Competition can be healthy for both parties, but I'm inclined to agree. If there's potential for unique projects that only a EQD-/fic/ collab could accomplish, those should be given focus. Is the Skype call still happening?

>>112255>In other words, I am an old man rambling my mad opinions.And for it, you're always welcome around these parts :P

You raise some difficult challenges, and plenty of pitfalls to be wary of. One line in particular jumped out at me:>What does work, however, is making the masses have to give opinions rather than ovations to specific things, which generally results in a standard view which fits the actual final results.I don't want to derail further, since I'm getting increasingly off-topic from an EQD collab, but this line got the gears turning. I'll think about this and maybe post to a new thread at some-point-or-another.

This conversation has become complex, due in part to the fact that we’re now dealing with an academic approach to something that I believed was to be a simple, fun exercise for individuals like myself to improve as authors and grow as a community alongside and/or helped along by Equestria Daily.

Personally, I believe this is how it should stay, and, as Roger said, the writers must have justification for using their time to participate, must feel that it was time well spent. A /fic/-/art/ Write Off collaboration, with EqD advertising and supporting it, sounds like a golden idea. The goal, I’m hoping, is for writers to improve, readers to get good reads, and for all to have a bit of enjoyment from each other’s endeavors.

As far as trying to fix EqD’s Pre-Reading system, FiMFiction’s feature box, and other similar systems… the only thing I can come up with is to define what their goals are. I don’t really know their fundamental intent. While they may not be what is needed, they might still be what was intended.

I don’t want to create unmeetable expectations for what might turn out to be a pipe dream, but Gummii could prove to be a good place to insert an infrastructure capable of processing, sorting, and preserving lasting fiction—works that could still be read and enjoyed decades down the line. This, to me, is a worthwhile goal, and an important innovation in what looks like, at first glance, a stalwart industry (referring to fiction and academia in general).

If it sounds like I'm rambling, lapsing in logic, or just Completely Missing the Point, I most likely am. Any clarification or correction is welcome. I've yet to get the hang of this thing you call "thought."

>>112255> As for an EqD supported Anthology, I can presume that would be a good way for advertisement, but that is more or less all EqD can really offer, if this board is any guide. But then, free publicity is good publicity they say.

I started working a proposal from the meeting notes. With this you can see what we got done and where we stand on issues. Also if you think something is not being discussed then feel free to mention it.

To defend my collaboration point: I personally think that it is best to allow people to collaborate with who they want because that is the purpose of the contest. If we force pairings with everyone, then people will have no desire to seek our a partner for the next competition, thus no collaborating.

A few humble suggestions for next meeting, if I may. I'm not claiming to be innocent myself on any of these points. Just some observations that might help.

+ Let's organize an agenda, at least loosely. Last night was pretty heavily derailed, repeatedly. If we're organizing this many people, we want everypony's time to be used valuably.+ Take turns. Speaking is important but so is listening. Five simultaneous conversations is impossible for anypony to follow. I will dig out my unabridged copy of Robert's Rules if necessary >:(+ Everypony has good intentions. Cool it with the personal attacks. Cool it with idealogical attacks. Being /fic/foals, we tend to use words; use your words here, too. Be respectful.+ Let's not forget the true reasons that we're all here. Your exact reasons may not be the same as everypony else's. Again, be respectful.

Sorry about the bumpy start to things; it took me a bit to find my sea legs w.r.t. parliamentary procedure and all that. Still, I think this format will be more productive than shouting and less bureaucratic than it was today, once we get used to keeping things moving. As long as y'all find me and Filler's moderation useful, anyway.

Very brief notes+ Some perspective from /art/++ Comics / graphic novels: lolno++ Storybook (full page art + block of text): doable but possibly intimidating++ Illustrated novel (occasional B/W sketches interwoven in the story): very doable++ /art/ is very worried about attracting the wrong crowd. Essentially, those who neither contribute art nor offer constructive critism. Interesting parallel to /fic/, useless FimFiction comments, etc+ Format++ Publish in FimFiction/GDoc. Images are embedded. Author and artist(s) are creditted in-doc. Collections are published on EQD.++ Matchmaking would probably be choose-your-own-partners, as opposed to assigned teams.+ Adoption of parliamentary procedure, topic list, speaker queue, etc etc+ Should the storybook project be advertised/recruited on EQD?++ Vote: Nay++ General vibe: We should probably start this as a fun thing for the existing /art/ and /fic/ communities. Probably not a great project in which to join the community. Those who are attracted to PC by this project can always contribute next round / in other competitions.+ Should the storybook project be advertised/published on EQD?++ Vote: Yea++ General vibe: Promotion is good. EQD is currently unparalleled in that regard. This project is unique and deserves spotlighting. Artists will be visibly cited, as opposed to Drawfriends for instance. If this becomes a point of contention for /art/, it can always be revisited.

Future topics+ Should the storybook project be an actual competition, with judges and voting? Or should it simply be a collaboration project, published to EQD without a voting phase?+ Write-Offs++ Better promotion on EQD of existing competitions (e.g. Roger's)++ I thought at some point there was discussion of an EQD-exclusive write-off competition?

Another future topic: Iron out the actual details of the storybook project itself. Determine how teams are picked, what exactly are we asking for in terms of picture size and word ratio, the rules of the actual competition. It's all been discussed briefly before but should be formalized.

>>112756Yep, both GDoc and FimFiction support embedding images directly into the story, which should be fine for the illustrated novel format. I'm realizing now though that the storybook format might be an issue. For a physical copy, you'd normally have words on one page, picture on the opposite. Since neither GDoc nor FimFic allow for a side-by-side format like that, it'd be tougher to enjoy the text and full-page art at the same time.

>>112757>>112760Sweeeet... Thank you!Man, I should have been able to figure that out on my own, I am DerpFox. X3

>I'm realizing now though that the storybook format might be an issue. For a storybook, probably the most effective way to present it would be to have a high-res full-page illustration with the text placed in the image itself. This is one of the reasons I don't favour the storybook concept as much as the illustrated novels: it requires somewhat more graphic design and typesetting know-how from the artist. Besides: full page illustrations are a lot more work.

Another meeting come and gone, and we're mostly structurally intact. At this point, we I drew short straw will be putting together a proposal in short order, for any final feedback, before we pick a date (within a month-ish) and get this show on the road.

+ Competition (voting, judges) vs. simple collab++ Depends on phrasing. /art/isans are a shy bunch++ No one wants this getting overly hostile or competitive. The point is fun++ We do have prizes available, but that might escalate drama, so maybe not this time++ Unique storybook format may attract more voters than normal++ Consensus: yes to competition, but let’s keep it friendly

+ Storybook vs. Illustrated Novel++ Definitions by WhiteFox: http://pastebin.com/MnRTpNdS++ Storybook requires a bit more graphic design, not everyone will be familiar with how to accomplish this++ Comparative voting between the two formats may be difficult++ Freedom of choice is nice++ Getting some storybooks would be pretty damn hot++ Artists may very well bite off more than they can chew++ /art/ representatives not on board with the idea, due to risk, huge effort involved++ This won't be the only /art/-/fic/ collab in the history of ever++ Vote: 4-1, illustrated novels only

+ Ratio of words to pictures?++ Meh, up to the team

+ Team size++ One writer per team, more is dumb++ More than one artist could work (one for sketching, one for inking) but challenging++ Expected turnout: maybe 10 artists, 20-30 authors? Unlikely to be an even turnout++ Vote: 4-1, people can pick their own teams (one author and one artist). Remaining unslotted folk will be paired at random. This does mean some people won’t get paired, but it can’t be avoided

+ Write-Off++ /art/ doesn’t want recruiting for their side on EQD, /fic/ side is okay with it++ Both sides’ results will get posted on EQD++ Re: higher visibility, that’s already coordinated at this point

=======

We do legitimately have a few other questions that were forgotten, but no need for another meeting. That's what this thread is for :{

+ When exactly is this? Late August? Won't conflict with Write-Off #5 and gives /art/ and /fic/ some time to mingle.+ Do we need a minimum length (wordcount or pagecount)? Given the format, I'm inclined to say "no", but previous competitions have had a minimum.+ My nose looks funny.

>>112923You know, it'd be nice if you made an announcement that you're going to do some 700+ conversation chains on here for those of us who aren't religiously logged into Skype.Honestly, too tired to really care (and kinda glad I wasn't spending my entire day in there), but it'd be nice if you did that.

>>112926Mentioned the next meeting time earlier in the thread (>>112740) but yes, shoulda bumped this tonight. Mea culpa.

>>112927>What about DA recruiting? We need more artists if we want this to be balanced.That's totally kosher. No restrictions saying that artists must be from /art/, just that there won't be a EQD post calling for artists. No formalized plan for reaching out to DA as of yet, but we can organize something.

>>112927We pretty well figured that there would be more /fic/sters than /art/isans participating. I thought that if there was a shortage, /fic/sters could go looking for partners... either by searching /art/ for /art/isans who hadn't signed up yet (and goad some of the lazy bohemmes into participating), or going to DA or tumblr.

>I think it adds character.I never said it was bad.I just said it was funny.

[7/23/2012 1:06:23 AM] Roger: I'm glad you guys are starting to use UTC, though.[7/23/2012 1:06:24 AM] Kurbz: Also, I think that we should summarize the idea at some point. Because I'm fuzzy on what we've come to a consensus on so far.[7/23/2012 1:07:00 AM] Roger: If there's one thing the internet needs, it's disambiguity on timezones.[7/23/2012 1:07:16 AM] Filler: UTC = GMT, right?[7/23/2012 1:07:26 AM] Bleeding Rain: [Monday, July 23, 2012 1:06 AM] Roger:

<<< I'm glad you guys are starting to use UTC, though.I wonder what the world would be like, if everything in this world ran the wat Roger thought it should...[7/23/2012 1:07:27 AM] Roger: For all civillian purposes.[7/23/2012 1:07:42 AM] Roger: The world would be a terrible place, I'm sure.[7/23/2012 1:07:56 AM] Pav Feira: it's just annoying b/c UTC puts the meeting on Tuesday, but it's Monday in US[7/23/2012 1:08:00 AM] Kurbz: It'd be organized as fuck. With labels everywhere.[7/23/2012 1:08:04 AM] Pav Feira: i'm sure several ppl will get confused on that[7/23/2012 1:08:09 AM] Roger: Hahahaha

>>113037Looks good to me.Question, though, what's to stop someone from Emailing the artist of their choice and getting a head start on the competition? That's what the prompts were for in the write-offs, except since we agreed not to use them due to how they'd limit creativity that's no longer applicable. Is the trust system in effect here or is there another plan of action for dealing with this?

Okay. Gonna post notes from last night's de-facto-meeting. Still busy writing my two bits, see next post.

+ Sethisto had apparently shown direct interest in a collaboration, thus the reason for involving EQD in the first place.

+ Questions of if it's even possible to have a collaboration with EQD.++ EQD doesn't particularly have a "community" per se. It does have a large viewbase.+++ Arguably, it's one of the central hubs of the brony community. It reaches a broader swath of bronies than sites like Ponychan, DeviantArt, FimFiction, etc.++ EQD can offer Ponychan invaluable traffic when it comes to advertising and promoting.++ What can EQD, /fic/, and /art/ offer each other?

+ Questions about EQD's "community" and its potential to harm Ponychan's community++ The majority of the (three) /art/ representatives feel EQD's traffic would be negative. ++ /fic/ seems mostly divided. A few individuals are largely protesting the move. Some welcome it. Many are apathetic.++ The general fears are that EQD newcomers will disregard existing rules, will flood out the "old guard", and will alter the current intents of /art/ and /fic/.

+ Honestly, we haven't had a representative sample of /art/ involved in the discussion.

+ Next meeting tentatively set for Sunday July 29th, 5pm EST (21:00 UTC)

>>113627How many members of /fic/ were actually involved in this anyway? How is the break down for the decision and what were the arguments? Would it be possible for logs to be posted in case others wanted to see?

>>113627>+ Sethisto had apparently shown direct interest in a collaboration, thus the reason for involving EQD in the first place.This is the sort of thing that should be announced at the beginning. I do not like how it wasn't until people started saying that they didn't want EqD's involvement since it's being used as a sort of buy-in now that things have moved away from the original plan.

>>113628I suppose I could C+P the chat.And, in one regard, too many. The debate was a clusterfuck. However, as an actual sampling, it was far too small.

>>113636>This is the sort of thing that should be announced at the beginning.I think everyone was thinking he approved because we didn't think moony would just go up to a group, make an activity, and suddenly get Sethisto to go "Ey´nope".

>I suppose I could C+P the chat.Thank you.

>And, in one regard, too many. The debate was a clusterfuck. However, as an actual sampling, it was far too small.I also noticed there were few people from art from what is being said here.

>Sethisto had apparently shown direct interest in a collaboration, thus the reason for involving EQD in the first place.If you post your personal opinions about Sethisto-the-person here, I cannot stress how little I will care. I think if EQD-the-site is explicitly showing interest in a collaboration, we should give the idea further thought. The EQD collab doesn't have to be the illustrated story idea, if people are deadset on being divided.

>Honestly, we haven't had a representative sample of /art/ involved in the discussion.*ponyshrug* While I certainly agree, we can only work with those who will work with us.

>What can EQD, /fic/, and /art/ offer each other?EQD and /fic/: /fic/ offers its TTG and reviewers for the betterment of authors. It also boasts competitions and a few discussion threads of note, like the Story Forge. These services, arguably, are more for writers than for EQD itself. However, EQD unquestionably benefits, as /fic/ is its officially-endorsed destination for writers in need of assistance. EQD offers writers a huge amount of traffic, versus simply posting on FimFiction. Again, this is more for writers in general. EQD doesn't currently offer much to the reviewers of /fic/ directly. EQD does, according to recent discussions, does have intention on shining a spotlight on /fic/'s competitions and projects.

EQD and /art/: /art/ really doesn't have much of a connection with EQD. There's the Drawfriends, but according to the handful of /art/ists in Skype and the /art/ thread, opinions are neutral-to-negative. This is a small sample size; I'm aware. /art/'s interests, to my understanding, are mostly about improving their craft, showcasing within their small community, and occasionally taking requests.

/art/ and /fic/: Historically not much interaction. There does appear to be interest, between Roger's newest Write-Off, and the fact that this thread evolved from an EQD-/fic/ collab into an /art/-/fic/ collab.

The relationship between /art/-/fic/ appears to be blossoming and I see no reason to stifle it. Unless a bunch of posters pop up on /art/ and claim otherwise, /art/ doesn't appear to have goals that align with EQD's, and doesn't appear to be interested in building a relationship. If that's the case, I see no reason to force it.

As for EQD and /fic/, there's a fair bit of smack talk here about EQD. That it fails to be what I expect it to be. That the prereaders' standards do not measure up to my standards. And those are fair opinions to have. Some individuals of /fic/ have drama with individuals at EQD, and I would like to re-stress how many f~yay~s I do not give. Despite all this, I posit that /fic/ and EQD, as sites, currently have a positive and appreciative relationship. I see no reason not to foster and promote this relationship. This leads into the next point.

>The general fears are that EQD newcomers will disregard existing rules, will flood out the "old guard", and will alter the current intents of /art/ and /fic/.I've tried to stay quiet on this point, because I haven't been around long enough to see old /fic/. I understand that it was bad. I understand that what we currently have is so much better. I understand that the average EQD commenter has devolved to Youtube standards. I understand wanting to protect what we have.

I do not feel that fears re: a /fic/-EQD collab are warranted. I point to the last Write-Off, and how little outside traffic it generated, let alone newcomers who entered the competition, let alone the number of those newcomers who are still here one month later. I point to the fact that every new thread is bad, and OP needs to read the sticky, and reported. I point to the number of ill-intentioned newbies who quickly get pissed at the formality of this place and leave a "I'm never coming back here again" post.

And look at the newcomers who actually stick around. Good-intentioned. Well-articulated. I see some nice reviews on TTG from names I don't recognize. The "old guard" will inevitably move along, but I think the average new reviewer is well-acclimated to the current atmosphere.

I get the sense that (and forgive me for the strawman) the fear is that an EQD collab will flood /fic/ with one thousand mouthbreathers. I feel that's wrong on both accounts: it won't generate a fraction of that traffic, and I have better faith in the decorum of the average individual who actually sticks around. Once they're here, the older folk drum up the rules frequently enough that I trust in the newcomers to toe the line.

tl;dr—IMHO an EQD collab will not implode the established reviewer community, Derpy-townhall-style.

>So, in conclusion?The illustrated story idea is mostly formalized at this point. At its core, it involves /art/. /art/ doesn't want to deal with EQD. F~yay~ing middle school all over again. Ergo, we don't recruit for this event on EQD, unless /art/ gives its blessing.

I stand by my earlier statement that I'm in favor of strengthening /fic/'s relations with EQD. Combine this and the previous paragraph, and we arrive at a separate project. So, IMO, back to the drawing board. Perhaps revisiting the brainstorming ideas from the beginning of the thread?

>>113640Sethisto wouldn't have done that. The write-offs have been posted there several times, so that argument is kinda dumb. Plus, there's a difference between "approval for posting" and "legitimately interested in the result". Suddenly, people have been dumped with the weight of the person that is essentially the biggest face for the fandom waiting on them. It's an important distinction to make.

>I also noticed there were few people from art from what is being said here. There was no one from art in there at all last night. I personally called for it to be moved to a later date when we could actually get all sides in on the debates.Also, I was tired.

>>113643>The EQD collab doesn't have to be the illustrated story idea, if people are deadset on being divided.So we do another write-off? I'm not seeing the need behind all of the extra round-tabling in that case. If we want to do this, it needs to be something special, and that's not going to happen with the same-old same-old.The illustrated stories was what elevated this to a level that could actually make people care and /art/ doesn't seem to want it, so now a new game plan has to be made.

>While I certainly agree, we can only work with those who will work with us.They're working with /fic/, so I don't see where you're coming from with this. They're just not working with EqD. EqD is entirely secondary to actually making this a thing. Its involvement is not necessary for any part of the process to organize a /art/ and /fic/ collaboration.

>and the fact that this thread evolved from an EQD-/fic/ collab into an /art/-/fic/ collabPersonally, I think /fic/ spending its time with /art/ to make this happen is better than yet another Write-Off on EqD. As you mentioned (and I address), EqD doesn't give us a whole lot in the way of additional participants and long-term users.

>I do not feel that fears re: a /fic/-EQD collab are warranted. I point to the last Write-Off, and how little outside traffic it generated, let alone newcomers who entered the competition, let alone the number of those newcomers who are still here one month later.This point also goes against bringing in EqD: Why bother if it generates so little traffic?

I know I'm late to this and probably not up-to-speed on everything, but I'd appreciate a little clarification on a point in the collaboration notes:

> /fic/ will take over many of EQDaily’s fanfiction needs> EQDaily doesn’t have the infrastructure in place to deal with it fullyHere's the thing: /fic/ doesn't either, at least not the sense of the website. I've likened /fic/ to a sand castle; the discussion board software is the sand. Ponychan has fewer categorization, ranking, notification and presentation features than FiMFiction, and that's really saying something. /fic/ is held together by a set of rules and traditions upheld by the community that takes care of it and makes it all work, so to say that /fic/'s "infrastructure" will be used in place of EqD's is tantamount to saying that everyone who wants to go to EqD for fanfiction needs will be required to learn the way of doing things on /fic/, and I imagine that won't sit well with most people on EqD.

Apart from that, I can't really see how having competitions here will disrupt the culture except in the sense of providing a distraction for reviewers. In general, I see /fic/ as a workshop and marketplace of ideas for the process of writing / writing improvement and of works in progress, rather than showcasing. That includes discussion threads about writing, writing exercise threads, and writing competitions, the latter included because writing competitions are a way of challenging ourselves to write. At the risk of starting a derail, reviewing will not stop being a part of it because of competitions, unless /fic/ becomes competition central and none of the reviewers review any more because they're preoccupied with competitions. I would say the more important question to ask is whether such competitions are well-suited for a place like /fic/ insofar as how the structure, format and MO of the image board (and /fic/) are not detrimental to them.

An idea so crazy, it might not work
DuncanR!S7UtV5RVbsSun, Jul 29th, 2012 15:02No. 113908

>>111864>What would you like to see in a collaboration? We already have the training grounds, but there's just so much more we could do!What I'm about to say has nothing to do with the fic/art collaboration currently dominating the discussion, but it does have to do with fic/EQD and The Training Grounds in particular. If there is a better place to discuss this, unnecessary comma, I apologize in advance. Also: I started writing this before Demetrius made his post above, but his description of /fic/ turned out to be oddly relevant.

There is no doubt that the pre-readers of Equestria Daily are flooded, daily, with a truly leviathanesque quantity of fan-fictions. The vast majority of these fics are garbage, and are immediately sent down the chute to TTG. Only some of those writers actually visit, and only some of those actually stay long enough to clean up their act.

This seems less like "training" and more like "damage control." Like a squad of elite navy seals sent to resolve problems involving bombs or hostages, TTG is only called to duty after the situation has already become nearly unsalvageable. Are we bailing water when we could be plugging holes? When I see a twenty-thousand word epic that requires a complete rewrite because it has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, I die inside because I know my advice will not be followed. Cannot be followed, perhaps. I hate it when my review boils down to "stop sucking." I feel like if I'd sat down with the author over a cuppa tea, before they started writing, I could have saved them an awful lot of trouble with a lot less work from everybody.

They say an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and I would really like to see this put to the test. There must be some way we can help fanfic writers before they put pen to paper, because that's when every minute of planning saves you a full day of actual work further down the road. I understand this must sound like an overly ambitious, idealistic and/or naive idea. I admit that I have no idea how to even begin doing this, or how we could tell if it's working. But if we could find a way to do this, I think everybody would benefit: The writers, the pre-readers, the reviewers, and even the readers. EQD could promote it as an ongoing thing, and pre-readers could chime in on discussions to offer advice, observations and opinions. TTG Reviewers could engage in back-and-forth discussions on vital topics, and maybe host writing exercises or lessons disguised as mini-contests. We could announce that writers who attend the workshop have a much higher likelihood of getting on EQD. It might even be true! I understand that critical feedback is necessarily harsh and unforgiving, but this would be a chance to be encouraging, helpful, and maybe even--gasp!--positive.

So that's my suggestion: Why don't we try to help EQD submitters proactively? Sure, we might get flooded by morons. But the people who would come to us for help are the exact same people who are already doing so now, except they'll visit us before EQD gives them a first strike. Merely by choosing to attend, they will prove that their dedication to the craft is at least slightly above average. Whatever the case may be, I don't think we'll make as much of a lasting difference by swatting one bee at a time.

I think that's what keeps reviewers from burning out: being able to say "I made a difference." And you know what? I would love to make a difference. Failing that, I would like to try.

+ EQD will be involved in the recruitment process++ While we understand and respect the concerns raised against this point, we want to do what’s best for the event (that is, making sure there are enough entrants)

+ Illustrated stories will be encouraged, for the sake of trying to focus the entries++ Other related formats (storybooks, graphic novels) will be permitted if the participants are overly ambitious

+ Teams++ /collab/ threads to help artists to meet writers and vice versa++ It’s up to individuals to make teams. We’re not getting caught up in auto-assigned team drama

+ Which individual(s) will be in charge of event coordination?++ Tabled

+ Prizes will be available for the winners

+ Judging++ 1st round open voting phase++ Potentially, 2nd round private voting phase?++ Final round, judges select winners+++ Get a set of judges from multiple backgrounds (/fic/, /art/, EQD)++++ Exact specifics of selection process: tabled+++ Judging rubric? Art, writing, originality, unity of elements?++++ Helps clarify why something is first place or fifth place++++ Public perception of non-bias is important+++++ A potential threat, if an author/artist of high notoriety enters the event+++++ Drama, always the drama++++ A rubric assists the judges, keeps them consistent with each other+++ Alternative: relative ranking from best to worst++++ If unity is most important, shouldn’t that be the only category?++++ Simplifies the matter (Occam’s Razor-ish)++++ Using a rubric that analyses art and text separately, demeans the collaborative nature of the entry+++ Issue tabled until a further point in time

I would like to explain my concern about comics in this contest. Apart from the ones I mentioned in the e-mail to RogerDodger.

Ideally, a full page comic should have no more than a hundred words of dialog. Webcomics flagrantly break this rule all the time, so let's say... three hundred words. I could write and edit that in about two hours.

If an artist was working at peak efficiency for ten hours a day, they could probably do such a page in... five days. And that's with the bare minimum of work required to make something that doesn't look like crap.

Considering that the writer will be doing a fraction of the work, I would hesitate to call it a "collaboration" at all. Unless the author had significant skill and experience in writing scripts for comics, they wouldn't get to contribute much of anything at all.

Second, comics are insanely popular. I'd be capable of hammering out a half way decent six page comic, single-handedly I might add, that has a far better chance of winning than a story with as many illustrations as my comic has panels.

There'd be no competition, if only for the simple fact that lazy voters can read a short comic in a minute or two, but a story of any decent length would be tl;dr. Guess who gets the vote.

Third, I'm seeing a lot of people saying "they can try if they want, it's on their heads." Well, I guarantee you that people will try and it will end in tears, flank-hurt, and broken friendships. Not exactly the best way to build bridges between /fic/ and /art/.

Everyone on /art/ is a hermit. Me and probably two other /art/isans ever stick their nose out of their own thread. I'm trying to do something about this on other fronts.

They're really friendly hermits, though, and the majority of them are asking for suggestions or requests.

This is why I wanted to do more of a find-your-own partner thing. I doubt you'll get much response by posting a thread for asking for participants, but any writer who goes looking for an artist will probably find one pretty easily.

And, for the record: Yeah, I'm only person, my thoughts do not reflect those of the entire board. The reason I showed up was to make suggestions based on my perspective and experience as an artist (like why teams large than 1+1 would be unviable). Not as a "representative." I said as much repeatedly.

Here's a question: did Mooney even read the transcript of the previous discussion?

>>113962>Here's a question: did Mooney even read the transcript of the previous discussion? No, not to the best of my knowledge.Of course, expecting someone to read several-hundred replies that largely consist of round-table discussion is a bit much (I know I haven't). However Moony is the chairperson of this deal by virtue of being the thread's creator, so such measures would be prudent of him so as to conduct from his position in a responsible and informed manner.

>Picture is unrelated, but we can all use a dog barking at a leaf blower from time to time

>>113952FWIW I agree. If teams want to stick together after this event and work on some epic-length graphic novel, they're always welcome to. But the group consensus usually seems to circle back toward not stifling creative freedom.

>>113962>And, for the record: Yeah, I'm only person, my thoughts do not reflect those of the entire board. The reason I showed up was to make suggestions based on my perspective and experience as an artist (like why teams large than 1+1 would be unviable). Not as a "representative." I said as much repeatedly.Precisely. All we wanted was perspective from the /art/ side of things, so that we don't make further silly propositions like the graphic novel idea. Don't undersell yourself, as your input has been very valuable. It's just been difficult to find input from other /art/ists.

In fact, and I apologize for not showing up, I've became a very busy person in a short amount of time, and I'm mostly out of my home.

>+ EQD will be involved in the recruitment process; +While we understand and respect the concerns raised against this point, we want to do what’s best for the event (that is, making sure there are enough entrants)

I knew this would happen eventually anyway if not much artists showed up, and, while I don't agree completely, I'm sure it was the right choice to even the numbers, and two persons don't really speak for all the artists.

I agree, Artists aren't going to bite arms off any time soon, as long as you ask in a civil manner, and don't give up if you're turned down once.

And I know I'm just repeating Fox, but if you're sure you don't want to limit creativity by allowing more formats, Examples SHOULD be listed, or at least properly explained, because you're going to have a lot of failed entries if people don't realize the amount of work needed, by BOTH sides.

I also don't understand why even comics would be allowed, I understand it needs clever writing, but the sheer amount of writing is just not there, same for storybooks and graphic novels, but as you said, to each team their own, there should be some kind of "I understand the risks and won't cry like a baby if I fail" clause somewhere :p

>FWIW I agree. But the group consensus usually seems to circle back toward not stifling creative freedom.Then I shall elaborate further.

How many people do we expect to even try comics? There are probably three people on /art/ who are capable of doing them at all. I'm one of them, Bluey is another, and I can't actually name a third guy. I just thought I should leave some wiggle room.

Me and bluey aren't stupid or crazy enough to do comics for this thing, so that doesn't leave a lot of people to be stifled: Approximately one hypothetical artist.

Plenty of guys do ask-tumblrs... that kind of work would be well suited for storybook type stuff. Not. Comics. Whole different animal.

What I would worry about most is writers searching /art/ for comic artists, and turning down perfectly good candidates who aren't up it. Talk about making someone feel inadequate. Or pushing an artist into doing it, only to end in tears. For both sides (And there will be tears, I don't think you guys appreciate what kind of a meat-grinder comics truly are).

Failing that, it'll be one more thing that will make /art/isans think "nope, I'm just not good enough for this."

As for creative freedom, when you do comics, you have to stick to your script like you're on buckin' rails. You can't skip over the boring parts. A conversation is basically having to draw fifty talking heads of the same two characters, going back and forth. Even mundane sequences of events can require four or five panels. It gets pretty monotonous.

It's just as bad for the writer... I cannot begin to describe how utterly brutal you have to be when cutting down dialog, or how little scene description you actually get to work with (about one decent establishing shot per scene change, or once every three pages or so). And that's assuming the artist is comfortable drawing full scenes, which most /art/isans are probably not.

This is why I'd rather go for the illustrated stories. An artist can read the story over, and just draw the bits that inspire them. The writer could point out the bits they think are worth drawing.

It's also more flexible, and less stress. A story could be anywhere from 3 to 30 thousand words... the artist can just draw as much as they're able to, in the time they have. If they only get ten of the dozen images they were hoping for, it's no biggie. If they have to drop out half way through, the writer still has a few pics as consolation.

So: can we... please... just... drop the idea of doing comics entirely? You want the perspective of someone from /art/, here it is: comics = just no. Don't make a rule against it, just don't bring it up or even mention it at all.

If this is brought up again, I have another four reasons why it's a bad idea. Each one of them merit a wall of text in their own right. This isn't a threat, I just want people to understand the sheer, stupifying, megalithic proportions of how bad this idea really is. I'm all for encouraging people to do comics, but this is not the time or place for it.