Wait, so this time when you ask those questions they're good, unlike last time when you refused to accept any answers, like when crash went out of his way to prove that some of the sources were independent and then you said well that means they were just getting their reports from other agencies? So, the same questions and the same arguments will have a different outcome?

I don't think so. I'm back from the future to give you a rundown of how this thread goes:

crash: source, source, source, argument based on logic and common sense, source, source

firefly: one youtube clip to destroy them all!

crash: calls bullshit on the clip, source, source, source, source, logical argument about how youtube clips are not inherently better sources than the billions of sources he plans to cite

crash: cites billions of source in follow up post, knowing full well that no one but him will read more than one of the articles he posts.

firefly: illuminati!!!!!!!! also counters with state-run media sourced material and Yahoo! Answers thread titled "Who was behind the war in Libya? Who killed the babbies?"

firefly wrote: That's the excuse eh, that Gadhafi is behind it all. Well he's dead now so that excuse can finally be put to rest.

That march was in July. The march and the amount of people (1 million) was reported by none other than Mathaba! The other news site that wrote about 1 million people was Pravda. I personally would never took their word for granted. I haven't seen any credible sources confirming anything about how many people there were.

firefly wrote: What does this journalist have to gain by speaking out?

Difficult to say. She worked for RT, right? It is owned by the Russian government which was against the NATO interfering in Libya. You could think that it might have an effect on her reporting... if you've ever watched RT you might know what I'm talking about. But you never know. She might be speaking the truth. Maybe she'd need to go to Cyrenaica to see the opposition's side of the story?

And what does Pirkko Pöntinen from the Finnish Yle News have to gain when she said that there were thousands celebrating on the Martyr's Square the whole night after Gaddafi died? Source (in foreign language).

Pics from celebrations after Gaddafi's death:

Tripoli:

Benghazi:

Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:39 pm

firefly

Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal

Woland wrote:

firefly wrote: That's the excuse eh, that Gadhafi is behind it all. Well he's dead now so that excuse can finally be put to rest.

That march was in July. The march and the amount of people (1 million) was reported by none other than Mathaba! The other news site that wrote about 1 million people was Pravda. I personally would never took their word for granted. I haven't seen any credible sources confirming anything about how many people there were

I hear you. But judging from the video alone, it looks like at least hundreds of thousands. No way to know for sure. And I'm aware that the video was from July. heh.

Quote: She worked for RT, right? It is owned by the Russian government which was against the NATO interfering in Libya. You could think that it might have an effect on her reporting... if you've ever watched RT you might know what I'm talking about. But you never know. She might be speaking the truth. Maybe she'd need to go to Cyrenaica to see the opposition's side of the story?

Sure, maybe. You can't believe everything you see on the news. Right??? Although it looks like she's giving a testimony in court and not doing a report. Apparently she was trapped in a hotel during the fighting (where she was doing the reporting) and claims that there were no independent journalist there. Which wouldn't surprise me.

Quote: And what does Pirkko Pöntinen from the Finnish Yle News have to gain when she said that there were thousands celebrating on the Martyr's Square the whole night after Gaddafi died?

I'm sure there were thousands who protested Gadhafi's death. I'm sure there will also be thousands who will benefit from the new regime change.

Wed Oct 26, 2011 7:44 am

jakethesnakeguy who cried about wrestling being real

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one

redball wrote: Wait, so this time when you ask those questions they're good, unlike last time when you refused to accept any answers, like when crash went out of his way to prove that some of the sources were independent and then you said well that means they were just getting their reports from other agencies? So, the same questions and the same arguments will have a different outcome?

I don't think so. I'm back from the future to give you a rundown of how this thread goes:

crash: source, source, source, argument based on logic and common sense, source, source

firefly: one youtube clip to destroy them all!

crash: calls bullshit on the clip, source, source, source, source, logical argument about how youtube clips are not inherently better sources than the billions of sources he plans to cite

crash: cites billions of source in follow up post, knowing full well that no one but him will read more than one of the articles he posts.

firefly: illuminati!!!!!!!! also counters with state-run media sourced material and Yahoo! Answers thread titled "Who was behind the war in Libya? Who killed the babbies?"

Firefly, you've really got to apply logic to some of your views or you're just going to keep being crazy conspiracy guy.

Real estimates, from outside sources say Gadhafi's "rally" was in the tens of thousands. Not close to a million, or even close to the hundreds of thousands you think are there. Where do you even logically conclude that? Is there ever an overhead shot in the entire video, or do they just keep panning across the crowd? If you've ever seen any music video of a stadium show, they do these same tricks to make it seem like an unending sea of people.

Then Crash drops even more logic on you, the fact that you think that 15 percent of the entire population of their nation is shown in that video?

Here's a show of Obama's inauguration, with estimates of between 600,000-1,000,000 people.

Do you see how far that crowd goes back? There's nothing even closely resembling this level of attendance in that video.

Get real.

Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:26 pm

redball

Joined: 12 May 2006
Posts: 6878
Location: Northern New Jersey

Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:47 pm

crash

Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5457
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption

here's the national mall compared to green sq (now called martyr's square). both are screen grabs from google earth at the same zoom level. the actual square is the roughly rectangular space on the left side of the picture. maybe the rally spilled outside the square, but if so they didn't show it on the video. even then, there is significantly less open space than what we have on the national mall (which was filled beyond capacity at inauguration).

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:07 pm

jakethesnakeguy who cried about wrestling being real

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:42 pm

futuristxen

Joined: 01 Jul 2002
Posts: 19377
Location: Tighten Your Bible Belt

That picture is depressing. Obama turned out to be worth about 200,000 people at his inauguration...definitely not 1 mill.

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:45 pm

JohnSchwan

Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 667
Location: Baton Rouge, LA/MA

futuristxen wrote: That picture is depressing. Obama turned out to be worth about 200,000 people at his inauguration...definitely not 1 mill.

Which picture?

*Edit
Also, where are you getting this 200,000 people number?

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:49 pm

jakethesnakeguy who cried about wrestling being real

Joined: 03 Feb 2006
Posts: 6311
Location: airstrip one

JohnSchwan wrote:

futuristxen wrote: That picture is depressing. Obama turned out to be worth about 200,000 people at his inauguration...definitely not 1 mill.

Which picture?

*Edit
Also, where are you getting this 200,000 people number?

I think she's referring to the general "underwhelming" views that most have of Obama. I.e: he turned out to be about 1/5 the president he should have.

Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:56 pm

JohnSchwan

Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 667
Location: Baton Rouge, LA/MA

jakethesnake wrote:

JohnSchwan wrote:

futuristxen wrote: That picture is depressing. Obama turned out to be worth about 200,000 people at his inauguration...definitely not 1 mill.

Which picture?

*Edit
Also, where are you getting this 200,000 people number?

I think she's referring to the general "underwhelming" views that most have of Obama. I.e: he turned out to be about 1/5 the president he should have.

Yeah, fail.

My bad, haha.

Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:04 pm

badjerk

Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 427
Location: pdx

jakethesnake wrote:

JohnSchwan wrote:

futuristxen wrote: That picture is depressing. Obama turned out to be worth about 200,000 people at his inauguration...definitely not 1 mill.

Which picture?

*Edit
Also, where are you getting this 200,000 people number?

I think she's referring to the general "underwhelming" views that most have of Obama. I.e: he turned out to be about 1/5 the president he should have.

Just glad you didnt say 3/5. shit woulda got real in here

Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:16 am

firefly

Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 3990
Location: Montreal

Like I said, it's impossible to know exactly how many people were there. Is it a million or 10's of thousands? Probably somewhere in between which is why it's good to look at media from both sides of the war machine. But you can't deny that that is a lot of people showing support. Is it for Gadhafi or is it simply because they wanted to stop being bombed by NATO forces and CIA sponsored rebels. Personally I think both.

I also think it's foolish to believe that they invaded for any reason other then money and power. If that makes me the conspiracy guy then so be it. I don't buy the stabalization argument.

Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:47 am

crash

Joined: 07 Aug 2003
Posts: 5457
Location: the chocolate city with a marshmallow center and a graham cracker crust of corruption

firefly wrote: Over a millions people marching in Tripoli supporting Gadhafi

firefly wrote: Like I said, it's impossible to know exactly how many people were there.