Jarno Trulli thinks that Ferrari are ahead of everyone, and that the championship is already in the bag."In my opinion, even compared to McLaren, they are at least half a second faster per lap. Good night then, I feel the championship is already over even before the start," Trulli said.

Whatever happened to "It's just testing" ? I hope he's wrong, because last year the races were by and by pretty dull, and it was only the tight championship that kept things interesting. If Ferrari are as dominant as JT thinks, I'll be watching MotoGP this year.

Ferrari look dominant, no doubt about it.
I hope that McLaren can pull it together towards the end of testing and get on a level with them ... then again, until they've all run together we'll never know how they are compared to each other.

It's definitely a Ferrari vs McLaren fight again this year though, I just hope it's as close as 2007 because that kept it interesting even though the racing was awful.

If it's a Ferrari cakewalk (or, for that matter, McLaren) then I think a lot of people that were brought in on Lewis-mania will stop watching, because the racing is what's important.

I think it's probably safe to say Ferrari have (currently) the quickest car.
But these things can change and often do and that's why I wouldn't feel comfortable declaring the season a redwash just yet.

Oh please, last year Ferrari were supposed to be dominant too and we had a really close well fought contest. Yes I admit it will be easier for Kimi this year, he's more used to the team, he knows he can win etc. etc.

The championship is only over when it's won, mid way last year it looked certain to be a McLaren, in 1999 MS was doing well until he had that leg breaking incident at Silverstone. You have human error and mechanical failure to deal with plus all the other cars on the track that could potentially put you off and so on.

Nothing is certain until it's certain, to try and call it now is just ridiculous. It's a bit like poor old DC telling us every year how this was going to be his year. Sadly it never was.

I would be surprised if it were anything other than a season-long close battle between Ferrari and McLaren.

Plenty of developments yet to come before the first race, let along in-season developments, so Ferrari's (apparent) half-second advantage could easily disappear before too long. And it takes more than 1 or 2 tracks to get an overall picture anyway.

Sure, I would bet my house that Toyota haven't got a prayer of being contenders, but who is surprised by that piece of Blundell-esque insight?

Trulli has to perform to impress anyone who wants to sign him for 09. I doubt he'll be leaping up and down knowing he has a slow car to do it in. Hopefully it will spur him to out-qualify the car, like last year, but it must be frustrating.

I think overall this does most likely point to a Ferrari domination, but there's quite a gap of reasonable doubt here. The final Barcelona test, with McLarens and Ferraris both on track, could give a clearer picture.

Personally I have been in the past really bored by MS/Ferrari dominations, so much that by the mid-season 2002 and 2004 I wasn't watching the GPs anymore. Nowadays I'm much more addicted to F1, and then again I disliked MS a lot, so a Kimi/Ferrari domination would be far more bearable. Yet a little competition always makes things more interesting.

I would prefer if Ferrari dominated. There would be too much whining and bashing if McLaren won races and because of spy gate no one would take their wins seriously. It would open up a whole new can of worms. Also Ferrari domination means everyone can go back to hating Ferrari and supporting the underdog McLaren again.

I think perhaps people are underestimating the experience and ability of teams such as McLaren to claw back that kind of deficit. Yes at the moment early indications are that the Ferrari appears to be faster, but we haven't yet seen the full race trim of either car - both have more bits and bobs to come I believe and both are pretty damn good at developing throughout the season.

Then you have to take into account unpredictable factors such as reliability, accidents, weather and what not and it could still be a closely fought fight to the last round of the season. Don't give up hope yet ;)

Originally posted by ferrariwonagain If ferrari will show off in Melbourne, Ron will be ready to protest and surely Bernie and the Fia will declare 1,2,3,4,5 parts of f2008 illegal.No doubts about it so don't worry.

I think - given the method that McLaren used to obtain the info about the Ferrari floor in 2007 - that is less than likely.

Originally posted by ferrariwonagain If ferrari will show off in Melbourne, Ron will be ready to protest and surely Bernie and the Fia will declare 1,2,3,4,5 parts of f2008 illegal.No doubts about it so don't worry.

If it's legal, it's legal. If it's not, it's not. So you have nothing to worry about. If anything gets declared illegal and removed, then it shouldn't have been there in the first place

I really hope for a good season for Ferrari and Kimi as one of their fans. However I don't think it will be a walk in the park although I want it to be. I don't trust any of the sources until I see the results on track.

Originally posted by For:Sure I would be surprised if it were anything other than a season-long close battle between Ferrari and McLaren.

Much as I hope that to be the case it's all going to go to hell in a handbasket if it is. McLaren start winning, Luca will start moaning, "Silver Ferrari" will be regurgitated ad nauseum and Max will send the lynch mob to Woking to slow them down.

Just wait till the first GP or better yet the first three GP's. After that we'll have a much better picture of the pecking order. You can't make judgements based on testing, its racing that counts after all.

That's not a totally unfair point (re: Ricardo F1)I think come 2009 when everything changes, any whinges from the Ferrari camp about stolen IP will be easily dismissed, as the cars will all be significantly different from 2007.

But from current threads still floating around, the spygate cloud will continue to hang over McLaren whenever they remotely threaten Ferrari, and that's unfortunate, because I like reading this forum on a lunchbreak and will be unable to do so, because I can't stand the whingeing from the fanbois ;)

Also about the radical car changes rules in 2009. Schumacher set the four fastest time in the test on the long run so maybe wait till 2010, if Ferrari develop their car well, during 2008 for 2009 they will be in an ok position. Truth is Ferrari had an excellent mechanism in the floor, and Ferrari lost out big time when Dennis complained, about illegal cars, how did he know about it oh yeah stepney.

Originally posted by jokuvaan Italian press talks about 12% efficiency improment in upcoming Ferrari aero, if its true then titles are clear already now. Or atleast drivers title.

Looks like the championship is bought and paid for then. Shall the other teams turn up for round 1 or should they just not bother?Excuse my sarcasm (I know, the lowest form of wit) but I really do think we should maybe view 3 races and then make the pronouncements.

Originally posted by SFMMSKR Truth is Ferrari had an excellent mechanism in the floor, and Ferrari lost out big time when Dennis complained, about illegal cars, how did he know about it oh yeah stepney.

Indeed. Of course truth is Ferrari shouldn't have been knowingly using an illegal floor in the first place should they?

Ricardo f1 let me stress the car passed all tests. Including the floor, which was tested at the bahrain test by the fia, and before and after the aus gp. Thew fact McLaren cannot think of their own ideas like Ferrari says it all.

Originally posted by SFMMSKR Ricardo f1 let me stress the car passed all tests. Including the floor, which was tested at the bahrain test by the fia, and before and after the aus gp. Thew fact McLaren cannot think of their own ideas like Ferrari says it all.

McLaren were the first to introduce zero keel to F1. Now every team including Ferrari has it.

Of course it did, it was designed to pass the tests NOT follow the letter of the law. There was a flaw in the testing procedure which Ferrari deliberately used to circumvent the actual rules. Mr Stepney tried to point this out to the FIA. The FIA seemingly ignored it. Mr Stepney pointed this out to McLaren ; McLaren enquired to the FIA, the test was changed, the floor was modified to become legal.

Originally posted by SFMMSKR The fact McLaren cannot think of their own ideas like Ferrari says it all.

Either you're utterly ignorant of the history of F1 or you're throwing that out to troll. I suspect the latter.

I've always struggled to have an idea why people are so vehemently pro-Ferrari when it comes to other teams doing slightly... 'interesting' things. I know a few people in Formula One, and from what I have heard and understood over the years, holding Ferrari up as some kind of victim is akin to feeling sorry for a bank robber who got the contents of his house stolen while he was out on the job.

They were wronged last year, for sure, but they're certainly not a team I'd feel sorry for too much. The sharks just got bitten by another shark, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Matt Hughes I've always struggled to have an idea why people are so vehemently pro-Ferrari when it comes to other teams doing slightly... 'interesting' things. I know a few people in Formula One, and from what I have heard and understood over the years, holding Ferrari up as some kind of victim is akin to feeling sorry for a bank robber who got the contents of his house stolen while he was out on the job.

They were wronged last year, for sure, but they're certainly not a team I'd feel sorry for too much. The sharks just got bitten by another shark, in my opinion.

'Interesting things'. What a sanctimonious cop-out. Sorry this is way off topic but if you call stealing and disseminating the blueprints for the best designed car of the year - and actually passing information in real time as merely 'interesting' then there's very little middle ground for reasonable debate.

McLaren either intentionally, or at best through managerial incompetence, behaved in an utterly unsporting fashion. And if not for Bernie Ecclestone they'd be out of this sport for good. They should thank themselves lucky 100M was all they got.

I don't recall there even being the faintest whiff of Ferrari being involved in such vile acts of industrial espionage. And if such whiffs exist given the fact that F1 is sill a 'British boys club' you can rest assured the likes of Ron Dennis and his able minister for information would have been screaming their lungs bloody baying for Ferrari's expulsion.

Just look at the utterly despicably underhand way they approached the 'cool fuel' protest and the Renault non-issue where in public they spread lies and disinformation then apologized for it behind closed doors.

'Interesting things'. What a sanctimonious cop-out. Sorry this is way off topic but if you call stealing and disseminating the blueprints for the best designed car of the year - and actually passing information in real time as merely 'interesting' then there's very little middle ground for reasonable debate.

McLaren either intentionally, or at best through managerial incompetence, behaved in an utterly unsporting fashion. And if not for Bernie Ecclestone they'd be out of this sport for good. They should thank themselves lucky 100M was all they got.

I don't recall there even being the faintest whiff of Ferrari being involved in such vile acts of industrial espionage. And if such whiffs exist given the fact that F1 is sill a 'British boys club' you can rest assured the likes of Ron Dennis and his able minister for information would have been screaming their lungs bloody baying for blood.

Just look at the utterly despicably underhand way they approached the 'cool fuel' protest and the Renault non-issue where in public they spread lies and disinformation then apologized for it behind closed doors.

A team utterly devoid of integrity that one.

A 'sanctimonious cop-out'? Please, spare me the drama.

There's plenty of history back through time of Ferrari bending one rule or another. As I clearly indicated in my post I accept they were wronged last season, but they've gotten their hands 'dirty' on previous occasions by bending one rule or another in a technical term (be it flexible wings, interesting floors etc) so I don't feel all that sorry. On a different scale, perhaps, but it all goes toward one goal: gaining an unfair advantage on-circuit.

As for McLaren 'stealing' the data, the impression I got is that it was given to them by a certain Mr. Nigel Stepney. Doesn't excuse what McLaren then went on to do, sure, but they hardly 'stole' the data.

If you know something is stolen and you not only accept it, but use the goods that is the same as stealing. Worse actually in my opinion.

And you're being utterly disingenuous trying to equate rule bending with the wholesale attack on the sport McLaren tried on last year with its various media and political machinations. I find it repugnant in the extreme that you can somehow try and make equivalent Ferrari's (as you would put it 'interesting') technical developments with McLaren's on-going dissemination (and then attempted utilisation) of Ferrari's technology.

One is a highly complex sporting issue where all teams push the limits. Ferrari perhaps the most aggressive. The other is a clear cut moral, and sporting issue and given the allegations of witch hunts, puerile attempts at linking the 'good of the sport' with their utterly cynical protests McLaren were responsible for comparing the two is extremely unfair to Ferrari.

In my eyes what McLaren tried to do to Renault is the worst of the lot... And let's not forget McLaren's somewhat insidious campaign against reporters from this very website because they wouldn't play ball like the retched Grandprix.coms of the world.

"The late Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, who was Ferrari's technical director, admitted that he had been the mastermind behind a clandestine break-in at the Williams garage during the German Grand Prix in 1980. A group of Ferrari personnel spent the entire night in the garage, wielding their tape measures and taking photographs of the car that would win Australian Alan Jones that year's championship. Ironically, none of the information gleaned appeared to make any difference to Ferrari."

I trust you can now condemn Ferrari's actions in an appropriately sanctimonious manner.

Originally posted by kar If you know something is stolen and you not only accept it, but use the goods that is the same as stealing. Worse actually in my opinion.

And you're being utterly disingenuous trying to equate rule bending with the wholesale attack on the sport McLaren tried on last year with its various media and political machinations. I find it repugnant in the extreme that you can somehow try and make equivalent Ferrari's (as you would put it 'interesting') technical developments with McLaren's on-going dissemination (and then attempted utilisation) of Ferrari's technology.

MP4-22 had been combed upside down by FIA inspectors. They found no evidence of Ferrari tech. Secondly F1 is so restricted nowdays that it is very possible that different engineers will come up with the same solution to the same engineering problem independently.

"The late Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, who was Ferrari's technical director, admitted that he had been the mastermind behind a clandestine break-in at the Williams garage during the German Grand Prix in 1980. A group of Ferrari personnel spent the entire night in the garage, wielding their tape measures and taking photographs of the car that would win Australian Alan Jones that year's championship. Ironically, none of the information gleaned appeared to make any difference to Ferrari."

I trust you can now condemn Ferrari's actions in an appropriately sanctimonious manner.

MP4-22 had been combed upside down by FIA inspectors. They found no evidence of Ferrari tech. Secondly F1 is so restricted nowdays that it is very possible that different engineers will come up with the same solution to the same engineering problem independently.

About the TT itself. Well it's foolhardy to write off the season yet, especially by a driver. What I get from the interview is that Toyota would be well advised to find a replacement for Trulli. His obvious disappointment won't help the team to move forward. What they need is not a "proven" driver, but someone who is determined to move things ahead. After Ralf last year, Toyota really doesn't need the same paste'n'copy story again. That's the thing with Toyota, the "deja vu" that comes always up. And to think when Toyota started up in F1 there were some Toyota fanatics that frequented this board. None of them left. Now IMO that's a shame.

Having said that I don't mind Ferrari being ahead, but a no contest isn't good for racing. At the end I follow F1 mostly because of the racing. And one team dominating just isn't good. At least if Ferrari is dominant, then hopefully it's Massa's year.

And for the record I don't think unreasonably positive about things is the way to go. But to me Alonso talking about Renault this year, was a message of we are not there yet, but we will try to get there again as soon as possible, while in Trulli's case it is more like, we'll never get there.

Originally posted by Matt Hughes I've always struggled to have an idea why people are so vehemently pro-Ferrari when it comes to other teams doing slightly... 'interesting' things. I know a few people in Formula One, and from what I have heard and understood over the years, holding Ferrari up as some kind of victim is akin to feeling sorry for a bank robber who got the contents of his house stolen while he was out on the job.

I agree with you on the matter with Ferrari being wronged last year. But if you cannot fathom why many people are pro-Ferrari, or more accurate passionate about their team or driver, then it just tells about you, not about the Ferrari or his fans..

It's Ok to not be passionate about things, if that holds true for you, but a lot of Ferrari fans are (and in other teams it's the same) and we're Ok as well. Thumbs up for diversity. We'd be bored if everybody agrees on everything. I'm not on par with most things about McLaren, but the long term McLaren posters on this board are IMO quite a good sport.

Originally posted by kar If you know something is stolen and you not only accept it, but use the goods that is the same as stealing. Worse actually in my opinion.

And you're being utterly disingenuous trying to equate rule bending with the wholesale attack on the sport McLaren tried on last year with its various media and political machinations. I find it repugnant in the extreme that you can somehow try and make equivalent Ferrari's (as you would put it 'interesting') technical developments with McLaren's on-going dissemination (and then attempted utilisation) of Ferrari's technology.

One is a highly complex sporting issue where all teams push the limits. Ferrari perhaps the most aggressive. The other is a clear cut moral, and sporting issue and given the allegations of witch hunts, puerile attempts at linking the 'good of the sport' with their utterly cynical protests McLaren were responsible for comparing the two is extremely unfair to Ferrari.

In my eyes what McLaren tried to do to Renault is the worst of the lot... And let's not forget McLaren's somewhat insidious campaign against reporters from this very website because they wouldn't play ball like the retched Grandprix.coms of the world.

Industrial espionage has been going on in Formula One for years, the only difference with McLaren's situation being that they got busted doing it. Teams up and down the pitlane have been getting information 'on the sly' since the dawn of time, i.e. Toyota in the winter of '03. Does that make it right? No, but then again I never claimed it was.

I don't disagree with you in some of your respects and to be honest I couldn't give two hoots for either team: my original point was merely that Ferrari have been involved in enough tricks both political and technical in past years to make them far from the innocent saints of the sport that some hold them up to be. The way some people on this bulletin board act you would have thought that what McLaren did was new, and that Ferrari would never dream of doing such an act, which in my opinion are both extremely wrong sentiments.

There's plenty of history back through time of Ferrari bending one rule or another. As I clearly indicated in my post I accept they were wronged last season, but they've gotten their hands 'dirty' on previous occasions by bending one rule or another in a technical term (be it flexible wings, interesting floors etc) so I don't feel all that sorry. On a different scale, perhaps, but it all goes toward one goal: gaining an unfair advantage on-circuit.

As for McLaren 'stealing' the data, the impression I got is that it was given to them by a certain Mr. Nigel Stepney. Doesn't excuse what McLaren then went on to do, sure, but they hardly 'stole' the data.

I think the question needs asking if the roles were reversed would Ferrari have accepted McLaren data or immediately reported it as stolen without studying it in detail. No doubt in my mind they would have studied and used anything that proved valuable. Lets face it any team would have been thinking all their Christmas's had come at once if a potential championship winning cars design documents had landed on their desk.Does it make it right? No of course not. But I'll bet there is a lot more of this sort of stuff going on than we are led to believe. McLaren got busted doing what every other team including Ferrari would have done. I'm no fan of either team, but the holier than though attitude of some of Ferrari's bigwigs and some of it's fans is quite amusing.

"The late Dr Harvey Postlethwaite, who was Ferrari's technical director, admitted that he had been the mastermind behind a clandestine break-in at the Williams garage during the German Grand Prix in 1980. A group of Ferrari personnel spent the entire night in the garage, wielding their tape measures and taking photographs of the car that would win Australian Alan Jones that year's championship. Ironically, none of the information gleaned appeared to make any difference to Ferrari."

I trust you can now condemn Ferrari's actions in an appropriately sanctimonious manner.

You missed this bit...

Back then nobody had ever heard of the expression "intellectual property rights". If you were stumped by another car's performance, you did what you could to uncover the secrets, and for the most part people accepted it as part of the game. Frank Williams was livid when he heard about Collins and his tape measure that time in Austria, until one of his own team pointed out that every team, including Williams, was doing something similar.

The MP23 was inspected as well. That was one of the conditions they were allowed in the 2008 season. They found 3 systems that were similar to Ferraris but no conclusive evidence that they came from the dossier. Like I said in F1 with such restrictions various engineers will come to the same optimal solution to the same engineering problem.

edit: McLaren then voluntarily suspended those 3 systems. Stuff like this is going to hurt McLaren's R&D.

The MP23 was inspected as well. That was one of the conditions they were allowed in the 2008 season. They found 3 systems that were similar to Ferraris but no conclusive evidence that they came from the dossier. Like I said in F1 with such restrictions various engineers will come to the same optimal solution to the same engineering problem.

And technically by finding even 1 copied thing they should have been chucked out of F1, they had been found guilty and fined and yet they still used the Ferrari info, they got off unbelievably lightly.

And technically by finding even 1 copied thing they should have been chucked out of F1, they had been found guilty and fined and yet they still used the Ferrari info, they got off unbelievably lightly.

Like I said, they never copied it. The systems were similar. In F1 several engineers can come to the same solution independently. They found no evidence that it was copied. McLaren have voluntarily suspended those projects.

Anyway, I wonder what you have to say about Ferrari breaking into Williams garage.

You're absolutely right but I think what we saw last year is that the teams are still doing something similar. Renault did have McLaren IP on their computers, stolen by a team member. Spyker did get hold of a Red Bull blueprint. Toyota did program its wind tunnel using Ferrari data. Ferrari did use a mass damper through the early part of 2006. How does the knowledge of these new ideas and technologies (especially when they are under the skin) move about so quickly?

Nobody except those in the know have any idea quite how much data exchange goes on in F1.