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JWH-018 Toxicology

Since my last post about the spice behind Spice (and other smoking mixtures such as Smoke, Serenity Now, K2, Sence, etc), it has been brought to my attention that some initial toxicology testing has been done on the synthetic cannabinoid JWH-018. Before we get down to the details however, here’s some pretty weird background information – the sponsor and provider of these studies wishes to remain anonymous! Unfortunately, this makes the whole thing a lot less credible, but since this is the only information we have right now, let’s hope someone else can verify these things at a later date. So far, one professor (who also wishes to remain anonymous) thinks these are real, but as of yet, no one is willing to put their name down on any kind of formal statement. If you, or anyone you know, has the relevant expertise to look over these studies, please drop me a line!

(Quick Update – A lot of people have been discussing and linking to this post, but there remains some suspicion that I have something to gain by saying the JWH-018 isn’t that harmful. Firstly, JWH-018 is now illegal in the UK. Secondly, as I mentioned just above this, if I have got anything wrong, please pick me up on it! If it turns out my analysis of the data is incorrect, I will correct it!)

Feel free to invent your own conspiracy theories, but for now, let’s take a look at the data. You can download the PDF documents in this Zip file [2.04 MB]

CYP450 Inhibition Assay

This first assay looks at the effect of a drug on specific enzymes in your liver. These Cytochrome P450 enzymes are responsible for metabolising the vast majority of drugs you might put in your body, so if you’ve got too much of one drug in your system (ie paracetamol/acetaminophen), then other drugs that are also metabolised by these enzymes (ie alcohol) may compete for these enzymes and so hang around in your system for longer. As you can imagine, it’s important to understand how one drug may affect the metabolism of another, in case of any disasterous drug-drug interactions.

Results: JWH-018 will probably interact with the metabolism of other drugs, so more in vivo work is necessary.

hERG Binding Assay

hERG stands for human Ether-à-go-goRelated Gene. This gene codes for a particular type of potassium channel found on heart tissue. This channel pumps potassium ions out of the heart muscle cells and are critical in coordinating the heart’s electrical activity. Unfortunately, these channels are a prime target for drugs to bind to, disrupting their function. This can lead to “Long QT Syndrome”, associated with fainting and can lead to sudden death, so you can see why these kinds of tests are important. Here’s a typical ECG recording showing what’s called the “QT interval” shown in blue, which lasts for longer than it should do if these channels are disrupted.

Results: JWH-018 does not interfere with these channels. That’s a good thing.

Cytotoxicity Assay

This simple test essentially looks at how many cells die when you perfuse them with a drug. The more cells that die, the more toxic the drug.

Results: JWH-018 is not cytotoxic at low concentrations.

GreenScreen HC Genotoxicity Assay

This assay looks at how much a drug will interfere with our DNA. Typically, anything that damages DNA is bad news, being potentially carcinogenic, making the rationale behind this test glaringly obvious. This test was also performed in the presence of a fraction taken from liver cells, which will break down the drug. This not only checks if the drug will damage DNA, but also its breakdown products.

Results: JWH-018 does not damage DNA, so shouldn’t give you cancer.

Rat Repeat Toxicity Assay

Guess what happens in this experiment. A number of renagade lab rats looking for a bad time are rounded up and promised free drugs (kind of like Pleasure Island from Pinocchio; that shit was scary!). The rats are then dosed up and observed. Initially, they appear lethargic (read: totally baked) but a few of them died at higher doses. This appears to be down to problems breathing rather than organ toxicity, but only affected the male rats, who appeared more sensitive to the compound. The drug didn’t appear to accumulate in their systems either, but they did lose some weight, probably because they couldn’t be arsed to eat. JWH-018 showed a huge potency and was found to be tachyphylactic (my new favourite word – it means that more of a drug is required to reach the same state following an initial dosage).

Results: According to FDA guidelines, the human equivalent dose is 0.016 mg/kg but it should be tested in other species before this can be seen as reliable!

Rat Pharmacokinetics

Data is collected on a number of different “pharmacokinetic” aspects of the drug, such as how it is absorbed, distributed throughout the body, metabolised and excreted, which can help with the design of future clinical trials.

Results: JWH-018 is distributed well throughout the rat’s tissues. Metabolism and excretion are normal, with a plasma half-life of approximately 2 hours

Summary

Well, from the looks of these tests, JWH-018 seems to be pretty safe, but unless you want to piss off Ben Goldacre, it would be wise not to rely on this “test tube data” entirely. Also, like I said before, we don’t know where this data has come from, clouding the issue even further.

Feel free to ask any questions in the comments.

Big thanks to Alfa @ Drugs-Forum.com for letting me know about these studies. You can read all about JWH-018 on their Drugs Wiki.

COMMENTS IN THIS THREAD ARE NOW CLOSED. YOU CAN CONTINUE DISCUSSING SYNTHETIC CANNABINOIDS HERE OR INDIVIDUAL SMOKING MIXTURES HERE..

It may help to use a small glass or something to press/roll over the JWH in the ziplock BEFORE taking it out to dissolve in the EverClear or whatever ya got… don’t want to crunch down hard enough to bust the ziplock — but it might take care of some small chunks of powder that would otherwise take longer to dissolve.

Just got my Sacra order in. Took awhile because fedex LOST it for 3 days but it got here in a waterproof package, inside was another plasticlike waterproof packaging, inside it was a clearish foil package (like what k2 is usually sold in) , inside it , was nice looking clear baggie with a printed label on it!, Also the shipment of 500mg of jwh73 included product information sheet which is VERY nice! I will update once i research this shipment !

Let me first say I’ve been monitoring this thread for months and its great.

I wanted to add my perspective on the use of JWH canniboids. I’m an older, 60’s era fan of recreational drugs just recently retired, and have benefitted greatly from careful use of JWH-018. It has analgesic qualities that, for someone like me with arthritis and joint replacements, are a godsend.

I’ve tried both the acetone bath (on an International Oddities herb base) and the Everclear mini-shot. I use a vaporizor on the herbs and mix the Everclear with Gatorade. They both have their pros and cons:

Acetone Bathed herbs: Pros – You get high quicker and you can moderate the dose as you go. It also fades much quickly, making it possible to get high in a smaller time window. It’s a more acceptable way to get high. Offer a friend a hit as you would with real cannabis.

Cons – It’s hard to get the acetone out of the herbs properly. My initial try I dried it for 6 hours, at about 55 deg., in an open window, but I still noticed some adverse side effects typical of acetone inhalation. I ended up warming it in the oven for 1/2 hour and the side effects went away, but it reduced the potency. In my future preparations I will use an electric fan and stir the base for 10-12 hours, but avoid heating it.

Everclear shot: Pros – Really provides a solid stone for an extended period of time. It’s easier to get an even blend and predictable dose.

Cons – You really need to block out a 6 hour window and be careful to not try to do anything like operate machinery. It can come on slow and hard, surprising you, hours later. I took it on fairly empty stomache and it took 45 minutes for it to hit, vs. 5 minutes using a vaporizer. It’s also less acceptable way socially. Telling someone you’ve mixed up a batch of high potency research chemicals and offering them a shot to drink will usually get a negative reaction.

For both of these approaches, I must emphasize, as others have on this forum, that you need to be really careful in handling and administering this stuff. Its very potent and requires respect. The doses and ratios are critical. You shouldn’y be sprinkling this stuff in joints or tossing some on your houkah bowl. Get a scale, measure carefully, and double check your calculations before you partake.

There are side effects, which I feel I am probably more sensitive to than younger members of the forum. As you get past 60 your body processes things less effectively, causing you to notice things more, so I may be a kind of canary in the coal mine. I notice that JWH puts more demands on your liver and metabolism, as does cannabis, so avoiding additional stress on these (such as drinking alcohol or caffiene before or during use) can reduce these effects.

What I’ve noticed for 24-48 hours post-use are light headedness, flatulance and headache. Nothing major, but climbing stairs too quickly can cause you to take a seat, and you may notice you need to drink more fluids. It’s nothing serious, but believe me, getting stoned one night and getting out on the golf course the next day can be a challenge if you don’t hydrate and eat properly. It’s comparable to to having 4-5 drinks of scotch for my matabolism. Your mileage may vary.

Absynthetics- I used the USPS priority mail option with zero problems. And it’s the cheapest option of the bunch.

Wally- Terrific post. Especially valuable “elder” perspective.

I am a mid-thirties fit male, and I don’t have quite the same reaction profile as you (Everclear method only).

My onset starts earlier, typically 20 minutes in, and that’s always on a full stomach to boot. Then it is like riding slowly up a conveyor belt as the stone ratchets tighter to a peak plateau at about the 75 minute mark, cruising at altitude for roughly 2 more hours before soft descent, but with considerable stonage still apparent well beyond 4 hours.

Any social taboo might be easily soothed away by the parallel experience of eating cannabis. In the company of friends, is this really so different from downing a feisty batch of hash brownies? I guess it depends on the experiences and expectations of one’s friends.

But also I don’t think I can in good conscience offer this beverage without a thorough explication of the molecules therein, which becomes a significant educational achievement. That is to say, it takes a while to really explain this material to people in a way that does it full justice. There’s a lot to grasp before exposure to JWH can be undertaken with the feeling that one truly has as much advance knowledge on the matter as is available to humanity at the moment. In fact, if I had simply skimmed the first few forum postings when I first stumbled on these chemicals, I would have never touched the stuff, and would have left off believing JWH has been found definitively carcinogenic, and is also responsible for AIDS, global warming, and world hunger. Such disinformation in the world.

I have not experienced the flatulence of which you speak. Yikes! I have had some next-day light fogginess and slight headache, but not all the time. I must say for the amount of inebriation possible at even moderate doses, the revenge symptoms are exceedingly mild, significantly less of a nuisance than what one pays in the day-after dues of a good hard drunk.

I have greatly enjoyed a cup of strong black coffee during or just after the up-slope of the experience. In my system the strong caffeine hit does not over-amplify the cannabinoid. They play well together! I do piss a lot later…but that’s coffee for you. The neat bonus is that the cannabinoid element is easily strong enough to override the coffee. I have found it possible to drink regular caffeinated coffee deep into the evening and have absolutely no trouble falling asleep even as little as 2 hours later.

About metabolism….this is one of the most interesting things. The stuff really does seem to give you a workout on the inside, but not in any way that I can discern as overtly negative. I seem to have dropped a few pounds in the weeks since first experimenting, and it has given me a strong reminiscence of back many years ago, when I used to smoke dope far too often, and how all my pothead friends and I were like string beans…there seemed no limit to how much we could eat without gaining weight. I have been packing away more calories than usual lately, especially during those JWH munchdowns (massive calories there!)….but fatness ain’t happening.

I guess I should urge some caution and restraint at this point, since what I just wrote reads like a Dexatrim ad. These are my own personal experiences, unique to my own biochemistry, and I’d like to hear the unique experiences of other travelers.

Boy do I get what you are saying about the reminiscence. It seems the “body high” allows you to feel and stretch your muscles and joints in a way I haven’t felt since my days playing frisbee on campus in college.

This ties into the analgesia I mentioned before. I’ve been on numerous prescription meds (Vioxx, Celebrex) and JWH variants are as good or better than them (and over the counter anti-inflammatories) and much more fun.

The prescription meds mentioned are no longer sold because of dangers to the heart. I’m sensitive to the increased heart rate and anxiety that attend the use of canniboids for the same reason and this is a reason for my caution with caffiene.

I’m hoping to get the right blend of JWH chemicals stored up while they are still legal so I have them for a fall-back medication as aches and pains build up. There are few things better than a full workout, JWH and a hot-tub to fight old age.

There is no doubt that, until big-pharma gets a way to make money on them, that there will be a heavy push to shut down synthetic canniboids, just as cannibis has been restricted.

The good far outweighs the risks for me, but thousands of people would benefit from more research and development in this area to make their use more commonly available to those that don’t want to dabble in chemistry and track down the facts needed to do it safely. Your posts here provide a vital resource. Thanks.

willie , I have been using 1 :2 ratio {1 gram to 2oz incense }, it is strong enough for me. now if I add a gram of jwh-073 to this could I add 2oz incense and it still be strong enough, or is the jwh-073 just an additive to get the sativa buzz, I am a lile bit confused, can you get me straight on this?

joseph, my blood work left me still wondering…my enzymes were ok in my liver, but I had quit my psychiartractic medicine the same day I quit jwh-018 so I fee like one of them was the culprit….probably the psychiartric medicine because the rash went away when I stopped taking it , I go for more blood work near the end of june so I will know more then, sorry I took so long to reply , but I just found out the results a couple of days ago, peace, jim

Hey Jim, regarding ratio, etc. I would rather let x1 or Absynthetics provide you guidance on this one. X1 has more experience with blending 018 and 073 together. Jim, I feel more comfortable if x1 or someone else answer your ratio question. I don’t want to steer you wrong. I am glad you got nice effect.

I can’t give bulletproof advice on plant blends since I don’t make them and have no experience using them. What I can tell you is that I use equal parts 018 and 073 in making liquid batches and it works perfectly for me.

I can tell you that the numbers/ratios you listed should be fine, provided you have a reliable technique for evenly distributing all 2 grams of JWH (018+073) through the 4 oz total plant material.

What I cannot tell you is what your experience will be, so you should do everyone a favor and report back after smoking. 073 is not quite as outright potent as 018, and is a little bit different on the CB receptors. It’s an oversimplification but I tend to think of 018 as more “sativa” and 073 as more “indica”. I expect that you will receive a more balanced and interesting high than with 018 alone. Equal parts of the JWH siblings is right for me in liquid form but you may have to tweak future batches in favor of one or the other to get the strength just right for your own system.

ernie- I’d bet almost certainly Pulse has JWH as at least one of its active constituents. Perhaps it also has CP-something-something. God knows what else is in all these wacky blends, but to produce a cannabis-like reaction, it can only be one of a very small handful of particular compounds, JWH-018 being easily the most potent and available of the lot.

I did a comprehensive product review on Pulse a few months ago. My conclusion is the same as x1 regarding the present of synthetic cannabinoids in Pulse. I also smoked Pulse and I can tell you that the listed herbal ingredients will never get you the intensity or effect within 5 minutes of lighting up. If you are interested in a copy of the review please email me at courther@bellsouth.net. I have the review in a Word document.

I have been smoking spice blends out of water pipes and I am starting to feel some effects on my body, cough, trouble breathing, but its the same that would be from cannibus. The only thing that I’m really concerned about is that all the packages I got they all say “not fit for human consumption”. What are they able to get away with because of that? If anyone has any links or information, please post

Ethan, How long have you been smoking spice blends? Which blends to you smoke? The companies market these blends as incense, so they can sell it. Jwh-018 is not scheduled drug yet, if it was they wouldn’t be able to sell it period. Hu-210 is a schedule 1 and it is one of the ingredients in spice gold, that’s why u don’t see any US companies selling it, because if they do, they will be in serious trouble! When they make jwh-XXX schedule 1, you won’t see spice anymore

I am going to be brief and I am going to post a website address for knowledge purposes only. The Federal Analog is very controversial in the way it is written. It boils down to this. Any chemical or herb that mimics the effects of an illegal drug can be prosecuted under this federal law unless the chemical or herb is not for human consumption. I have received plain old herb for example and it says “not for human consumption” in order to avoid any possible litigation under this new law. Here is the exact wording, “The Federal Analog Act, 21 U.S.C. § 813, is a controversial section of the United States Controlled Substances Act, allowing any chemical “substantially similar” to an illegal drug (in Schedule I or II) to be treated as if it were also in Schedule I or II, but only if it is intended for human consumption. ” Here is the reference website: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Analog_Act

Well, I finally went and did it. I live in a state where the 018 is going to be illegal soon, so I bought moderately large quantities (10-25g of 018 and 073) from 3 suppliers, just to be on the safe side. My issue now is with storage. I have a real and valid concern in that cancer runs deep in my family, and I would really like to have X1’s concoction around should I ever need to combat the effects of chemo. I also have a friend that actively has cancer, and the only relief he gets is from cannibis. So we both went in together and basically bought a life time supply.

The product sheets at several chemical companies say it can be stored for a year at -20C (or -4 F), but obviously a year is not long enough. I also read in 2 places (one being X1’s early post) that if you disolve it in ethanol, and put it in the freezer, it will last indefinitely. Does anyone know for sure the best way to store it for 15-20 years?

Since I won’t be able to replenish the product if I use the wrong process, I want to get this one right.

Yes, this is an excellent thread. And Jwndy speaks directly to some of my thoughts about cannabimimetic RCs. The wide-ranging medical benefits of cannabinoids are indisputable, but next-to-nothing is known (shared?) regarding the possible downside(s) – if any – of the synthetics. Perhaps what I should more correctly say is, the information that can be found is so technical it is largely indecipherable to the layperson. My interest is medical/therapeutic as well, but I am no chemist. It is because of my concerns about toxicity that I started reading here. The simple truth is, being RCs – much of the research information is coming from, well, the individual “researchers” that are talking on bluelight, Drugs-Forum, etc. Guinea pigs though they may be, personal experience is proving to be key here.

As far as long-term storage is concerned – in the few places where I have seen it discussed, those who “seem” to have some expertise in the chemical field believe these are relatively stable compounds and are best stored in their “original” (dry) state. But again – these are RCs, so only time. research and personal experience will tell for sure.

There is tremendous promise here and it goes far beyond 018. It is truly sad our ethically-challenged legislators are so blind.

I infuse 15 grams of my secret blend with 1 gram of JWH-018. To me, this is the only way. No bad experiences, except for the first time. Didn’t expect such a powerful high. I do get heartburn but I think thats my blend. What do you think of my ratio?

I spent several hours look at legal high guides, but never saw any discussion about differnet ways to store this particular substance, except for several successful experiences with short term storage like, “stored in bag in dark closet for 3 months, and everything was OK” etc.

I did find the following statement, which hits a little bit on the type of chemical discussion I am looking for:

“Indole compounds degrade by oxidation giving yellow and brown products. The more impurity results in intensity of the brown color and becoming a gummy like state (due to melting point suppression)”

What I would like is for someone with some knowledge of chemistry to give me their opinion on the following two suppositions (purely made up by me)

1. Since Oxidation is the enemy of JWH-018, then storage in lots of little small glass vials (with no empty space between the powder and the cap/stopper to mimimize exposure to air) in your everyday stand-alone freezer would work. You would pull out individual vials when you need them, leaving the others undisturbed.

OR

2. By melting the JWH in Ethanol, you eliminate its ability to oxidize because no air can get to the chemical once it is in liquid form. Putting the ethanol in the freezer is an added bonus that retards chemical processes.

I would love to know which of the above statements might be true (if either), and which would give me the highest chance of success for decades-long storage.

Thanks for all who commented, that really cleared up some questions that I had. An educated consumer is the best. I’ve been buring spice gold, but im thinking about making my own blend and just using the compound itself. Its been about 2 weeks of regular use, 2wice a day. Its nice to know that its just a law, and not a loophole that they can use to get around selling a safe product.

Sorry to see that you are not getting answers. You’d think an expert chemist would have chimed in by now!

This is all pretty new territory. We don’t often acquire novel medicinal powders and then seek to derive a method of preserving them for decades.

I must admit I don’t have confidence in the raw crystal to stay stable indefinitely, even at deep freeze.

I have more confidence in long-term suspended animation via high-proof ethyl alcohol. That confidence is based on the use of ethyl alcohol as a champion preservative for entomological collections, plankton specimens, and so forth. Will a synthetic organic compound like a JWH-xxx sit, happily stable, for years and years, dissolved in ethanol solution, the same as a large array of organic molecules in the form of an ant, or a moth larva, or a zooplankton? I can’t see a reason why not. If there is a good reason, I hope someone will spill it, ASAP!

….

Meanwhile, I have finally had a chance to try that ReChemz batch I was worried about, based on the diminished potency issues experienced by Absynthetics and others.

Turns out, the stuff is just fine. Lucky I cooled off and decided not to toss it. Never did get a clear handle on what the ReChemz “quality control measures” are, exactly, but despite my testy exchange with “Tommy” of ReChemz a few days back, I can still recommend ReChemz for USA citizens. Sorry that others have had some issues, but my personal experience has been of 100% quality material and ultimately that’s all I can speak to. I’ve also received additional quality material from Sacra, so it looks like USA folks have at least two good options.

I am on probation and just simply can not smoke Canibus, that is if a value my freedom. So being a pot head I obviously started to go just a little batty. And needed something help me keep my sanity.

That was when I heard about this product by the name of K2, That was going to get me high like pot. And I had to think oh my god what a wonder creation….. if it actually works

So far i have only smoke this “herb” about ten time and my results have been different every time. Probably because i have smoked different amounts the first every time.

What I have discovered is this, less is more. The one time I smoke this herb like it was Canibus (smoking a whole fatty) I had a terrible effect, extremely high blood pressure, nausea, and two physiological discrepancy such as anxiety, and some mild paranoia. So needless to say it was really kinda scary

But the times I have only indulged is a small amount of this product I have really enjoyed it, and could compare the “high” to that of Canibus. Even though my buzz is always significantly shorter.

I guess all I’m really trying to say is have fun, and enjoy yourself, but please be careful and know your limitations. And I’m not writing this to scare anyone, just because I had a problem doesn’t mean you will. After all I’m just one person out of millions.

I can back up X1’s results on ReChemz and Sacra. I also got favorable results from JWH018supplier. After much research, those were the 3 sources I picked. I even spoke with Alec at REChemz, and he was very familier with the progression toward illegailty in my state (and all states). I would have tried buythemg, but their registration was closed (which is not the case now as I understand it).

I also posed my long-term storage question to the companies directly, but only Alec actually checked and got back to me. His answer was it would last for a year at room temperature. Unless a supplier actually put me in touch with a staff chemist, I have to take a little bit of what they would say with a grain of salt…….after all, what would be their incentive to teach me how to store it? ehh?

Even with all that it is still buyer beware.

Thanks for everyone’s input on the storage question though. I am still holding out for someone that might can speak the language of molecules to help me out.

Ive been using K2 blonde every day for ovr a week now and never experienced any side efects. I never got nausea, my heart rate was never accelerated and i never mixed it with any other drugs. I took care of an entire bag in one day and got a headache but thats it. This dosnt show long term health effects but it shows what happened with frequent use of over a week. Smoking anything is bad obviously but i havn’t experienced anything to be really concerned about. It did affect my depth perception pretty bad after doing the whole 1gram bag, so i never drove. In large quantities it is certainly dangerous to drive on but a couple bowls is no problem. To be safe dont even drive on a little bit of anything. Im pretty sure alot of the blends contain passion flower which might enhance the synthetic cannabinoids because of the mAOIs. I think(not entirely sure) i detected some catnip, hops, mugwort,lions tail,skull cap and indian warrior. All these herbs have psychoactive effects of their own. Ive also heard that the manufacturers of these potpourris fill up tubs of these herbs and soak them down with the JWH chemicals.

You might give some thought to starting a thread in one or all of the above mentioned cannabimimetic RC forums and pose the storage question to them for their consideration. While the vast majority of the posters are obviously recreational experimenters, it appears there are a few lurking about who are more serious about the “research” side of this and seem to have a bit of chemistry background as well. I surely know some of their talk about molecules is way over my head.

One question that has come to my mind – ethanol is widely used to precipitate RNA and DNA. Does that mean it weakens chemical bonds or preserves them? You’d think someone would know. Or does it depend purely upon the chemical compound itself?

The greatest threats to the stability of these RCs are said to be oxygen, moisture, heat and sunlight. I know commercially available bottled ethanol is 190 proof – but there’s still water in the alcohol. Is it enough to be a detriment to potency?

So many questions. You’d think somebody out there could help to give a definitive answer. I do think a compact medical freezer would be a sound investment however. They will hold the temperature in the recommended -20 range, are lockable and can be found for around $200.

got my replacement from ReChemz. happy to report sucess. sacra, also sucess, different stuff. not sure what to make of the 200 i got from sacra. stuff is pink and gives off a pretty pungeant smoke when heated. not a whole lot in the way of CB activity, but seems to roll off the edge of 018. i’m going to relegate this one to a mix in an herbal spray. happy researching ppl!

First of all I’m glad I found a public forum that’s had so many hits on this subject. I’ve been smoking these jwh18 laced blends for months now; black mamba, ultra spice, spice green,tasty spice, magic spice, rebel spice ultra etc and really enjoyed em for the most part until last night. I’ve heard of adverse effects but without any legitimate research I didn’t pay much attention too it. After work I smoked one good sized bowl with a friend. Almost an every day thing. He felt fine but soon my heart rate shot over 100bpm( father is an m.d. So bp cuffs are laying around everywhere) and became very isolated in thought. This turned to what i know as a bad trip( I experimented with shrooms and LSD in high school and recently 2cb, so it’s nothing new). Fear came into the equation so I then though I was goin to die etc….. All the while my friend who smoked this bowl with me is just fine; shrubbed out as we’d say…. And I then proceed to vomiting for almost a minute or two straight. Here’s the deal; this product is intended to be sold as an incense so liabity is out the door and the FDA isn’t involved. If you need to get messed up get drunk or smoke real weed. Not that I’m condoning those substances, just that we at least know the effects. Like I said. My buddy has smoked it for months and never experienced any effect like that but everyones chemical makeup differs from one another. I’d stay away from such spices. And if your wondering which products include jwh18. It’s all of them. Average damiana isn’t that intense

I have posted a fairly detailed storage question at drugs forum. I haven’t gotten any hits yet. You can see it in the “new posts” section on the right. I may have made a mistake because I added my question about the powder to a thread about the long-term storage of blend (which was about 6 mo old). If I don’t get any hits, then I will repost in a more appropriate forum.

I didn’t see the other RC forums that lazarus was talking about. I’ve read this whole blog, but maybe I missed them. If anyone knows of a good blog where the posts indicate a high level of serious, intelligent, lab-type experimentation is going on, let me know, and I will post there too. I will be sure to report what I find here.

Regarding the Sacra comment from pooh – I recently received some new 018 and 073 from there, and they were both tan (or more tan than pink) and they were exactly the same color. I haven’t tried this batch yet. Can you elaborate on your comments on the quality? I would also like to know if X1 got the same color product from Sacra, and if he/she got the same quality results as from RezChem. I’ve bought several med-sized batches, and this is the first tan ones I’ve gotten. Everthing else was almost pure white for 018 and a slight yellow tinge to 073.

try JWH018Supplier.. Pros -almost pure white fine powder. Nice foil package. Check the price- cheap! 1 to 2 mg on a chunk of Damiana and you will fly away. Cons-be careful and don’t overdo unless you can handle much more than the norm.

I just wanted to update everyone on my experience with researchchemicalz. After reading others recent experiences with researchchemicalz jwh 018 I decided there was a good chance that I got a bad batch as well. I called them to request a refund and they sent me a free replacement gram, even though my original order was placed over 5 weeks prior. I mixed 250mg into 100ml of everclear and tried out 3.5 ml…wow! I got a way more intense high than what I had with my 8-10ml tests from the first gram and it was ridiculously long lasting, in fact I was almost wishing it would go away after a few hours. Absolutely nothing subtle about it this time! Now I have to wonder what the first gram I got really was, just 018 cut with something or something entirely different all together. Like I mentioned earlier there is no doubt it worked very well in low doses when smoked, but when taken orally it took much more than it should have to experience any effects…I feel like the high was slightly different as well, although I can’t quite put my finger on the specific differences.

Hey everyone. I’ve been smoking various blends for a couple months now and so far my favorite has been Spike Diamond, it seems to be the most potent and cost effective. I am however, concerned about something which hasn’t been properly addressed in this thread, the presence of the two benzene rings aka naphthalene. Now I’m no chemist, and I’ve heard because of the structure of the entire compound, JWH, that it might be decomposed or w/e differently than a lone naphthalene compound would. But i was slightly disturbed at reading the health effects of naphthalene exposure (fatigue, loss of appetite, diarrhea) because i have experienced these at times from the JWH. When I use it in the recommended dosages but say 5 times a day, I’ll sometimes wake up the next day with an odd feeling in my stomach, like the pH is 1 point too high or too low. I ordered some JWH-250 because it doesnt have the naphthalene, but it seems to be one of the least popular ones (I guess it doesnt get u as high) Anyone here use 250 regularly? I’ll post another message when it gets here and i’ve sampled it enough to note the side effects. Thanks

Yes, my sacra batches were tan. My first 018 from them was a little more tan than the 073. My second 018 was about equal in tan shade to the 073.

I have several bottles of 018/073 Everclear 190 mixture in the fridge. They all have slightly different off-clear hues. And I mean SLIGHT. If I place the bottles out on a countertop in regular ambient light, they appear “clear”, but in the harsh fridge light, and sitting side by side, the slight colorations and variances are easily noticeable.

The buythemg batch is the slightest pale yellow.

The sacra batches are very very slight tan.

One rechemz batch is very very slight pink/orange.

And a more recent rechemz batch has almost no coloration.

If coloration equals slight impurity, then the “winner” on purity is researchchemicalz. I recall this powder was the whitest and finest grained I’ve received. The consistency was almost like flour or baby powder, and as I’ve noted before, it dissolved very quickly in the Everclear.

This is the same batch that I was worried about after the diminished potency reports of Absynthetics and others, and over which Tommy from ReChemz and I had the little tiff, many posts up.

Despite that speedbump, this stuff is ace. I am certainly their customer once more.

Color variances aside, I can say with certainty after considerable testing that every single one of these liquid batches is consistent in its behavior. I can pull 3 mL out of any bottle and know exactly what to expect, which is pretty cool.

Joe- “Wow!” is right. Thank goodness you didn’t start back up at 8 mL. If the potency is what is should be out of the gate, 4 mL is probably about the line where after that it’s like, what’s the point? Can you imagine the consequences of a dose over double what you took? You’d probably still be skronked.

I am a state employee, and my wife is in the medical field and cannot use cannabis. I just purchased some 18 from a website with the same name as 018 & supply. I am looking for dependable website to descretely buy from. Can x1 send me a few sites to my email syrup1@butterworth.tc I like your idea of a mix in E It appears to be the most accurate I’ve seen on here so far. My wife has never has any cannabis and this is as close as I can get for her. I had some pretty wicked sh#$ when I was young and growing up. I tried a “pinner” of Afghanistan with 3 other guys and dont remember anything until the next morning, For some reason I was the life of the party that night and I dont know why. I’m NOT looking for that kinda fun. Just a good buzz and a nice experience for her and I. I have agram of 18 coming, cant wait. What would be the ultimate cannabis like buzz-mix?

The author of this blog mentioned some tests at the intro to the blog (I believe it was some of the rat tests) that indicated that it is purged from your system very quickly (i.e. within hours).

The only thing I know to counter that is that things that are fat soluble tend to get into your fat cells and take a while to completely metabolize (i.e. like THC). However, I have no idea as to whether this applies to JWH or not.

I would tend to stick with the lab results mentioned above (way above)…….in fact so far above that the author might want to consider starting a “page 2” of this blog – he already hit some some bandwidth limits a week or so ago (hint).

This, coupled with the fact that they don’t really have any lab detection methods for this yet (but they are working on them), means that you are probably safe for now.

I don’t need to email you anything. All the information on sources and methods that you need can already be found in the thread comments right here on this page…you need only read through carefully. So good luck!

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Regarding naphthalene, carcinogenicity, etc. :

[WARNING: Clumsy amateurish explication ahead!]

If you look at a typical sketch of the JWH-018 molecule, you’ll see it has basically two large “parts” on either side of the “O” in the middle.

On one side you have a hexagon and a pentagon attached together with what looks like an angled tail jutting off the bottom “N”. This side of the molecule is the “indole” part.

On the other side you have two hexagons attached together. This is the “naphthalene” part.

Roughly 2 years worth of discussion about JWH on the intarwebz have resulted in there being some concern that the “naphthalene” part of the molecule could be metabolized into a highly reactive and potentially carcinogenic “epoxide”….which would be bad.

However, it is unclear whether the naphthalene as it appears as an attached component in JWH would produce the same epoxides as unattached naphthalene.

There has also been concern expressed that SMOKING this chemical could cause the naphthalene portion to essentially snap off of the rest of the molecule and exist inside of you as “free” naphthalene, in which case it would be more likely to metabolize into the nasty epoxide.

Why smoking? Here’s another fancy word: “pyrolysis”. This is a very serious-sounding word for the chemical reaction that takes place during combustion. If you zap JWH with enough direct heat (for instance when torching it with a lighter), some of what you inhale may be “broken” JWH, and you would basically be introducing rogue naphthalene into your system.

So you see the evident risk. Now, there is a guy over on bluelight with a post called “Thoughts On JWH-18 Carcinogenicity” who, by way of some zany chemistry analysis, makes the conclusion that a 2.5 mg dose of JWH-018 might introduce as much naphthalene into your system as smoking 2 unfiltered cigarettes.

That might seem relatively mild…but as we all know cigarettes are rather nasty things, and UNFILTERED cigarettes are just really awful. So if you’re the kind who likes to smoke JWH off a direct flame often….you might want to pause and consider alternate methods of ingestion. One recent post above was from a guy who mentioned smoking JWH 5 times a day, and feeling rather bad from it. I think if I smoked half a pack of unfiltered Camels a day I’d probably feel like shit, too.

I am not clear whether “vaping”, as opposed to torching, might be safer in this regard.

Also I am not clear whether we are mostly out of the woods with the oral ingestion (liquid, Everclear) method. As I understand it there is still some risk that the naphthalene component might still metabolize down to something carcinogenic. BUT it does seem to make sense that the risk in this direction is significantly less than smoking.

I mean if I’m interpreting this correctly, that which was stated way up there in the begging of this whole deal says this stuff has a half-life of a couple hours. I’m intrested in Black mamba, if that’s tge case this stuff is out the system completely in maybe a day. Is there anyone out there with some concrete knowledge, maybe who works in the testing field or something. Thanks for all the info sofar.