FTFA: Civil rights groups have argued that using a test as the sole basis of admission favors students with means to prepare for the test, and have pushed unsuccessfully to have the schools adopt additional criteria, like middle school grades, for admission.

Sorry to break your heart but parents with money will always be able to by advantages for their children. If schools use grades to admit student then rich parents will hire their kids tutors, if schools use entrance exams then they'll enroll their kids in test-prep classes.

If poor African-American and Latino parents want their children to succeed they need to do what poor Asian parents do instead of trying to fix the current admissions system so that it doesn't unfairly favor people of privilege. Money will always give people an edge, you can't correct for that.... all you can do is find a strategy that allows you to succeed without that advantage.

Arthur Jumbles:FTFA: Civil rights groups have argued that using a test as the sole basis of admission favors students with means to prepare for the test, and have pushed unsuccessfully to have the schools adopt additional criteria, like middle school grades, for admission.

Sorry to break your heart but parents with money will always be able to by advantages for their children. If schools use grades to admit student then rich parents will hire their kids tutors, if schools use entrance exams then they'll enroll their kids in test-prep classes.

If poor African-American and Latino parents want their children to succeed they need to do what poor Asian parents do instead of trying to fix the current admissions system so that it doesn't unfairly favor people of privilege. Money will always give people an edge, you can't correct for that.... all you can do is find a strategy that allows you to succeed without that advantage.

I'd argue that it's cultural: You build up a culture that values education very highly, like both Asians and Jews have, and you end up with a higher proportion of them being successful.

The Actual Farking Headline from TFA: "Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City"The article: Despite the fact that girls have higher test scores, boys get more of the slots.

Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

At Fiorello H. La Guardia High School of Music and Art and Performing Arts, which admits students based on grades and auditions or portfolios of artwork, 73 percent of the students are girls. At Bard High School Early College, which has campuses in Manhattan and Queens, as well as at Millennium, Beacon and Townsend Harris High Schools, girls outnumber boys by at least 3 to 2.

Anybody calling for a review of these admission policies to address the imbalance?

I always find it odd when that they blame standardized tests for not reflecting the grades. Nobody seems to ask if the grading system, which is full of subjectivity might be the issue.

vicejay:The Actual Farking Headline from TFA: "Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City"The article: Despite the fact that girls have higher test scores, boys get more of the slots.

/sorry for shouting. Subby fails at everything.

Subby here, the original headline was "Girls Outnumbered in New Yorks Elite Public Schools".

Look at the link text and you can still see it in there. They changed it after I submitted it.

If there are more women earning degrees than men, shouldn't the greater number of males in these elite schools be appropriate to compensate and fix that problem?. Isn't that what affirmative action is for? Regulations to prevent imbalances in the system?

As an educator, I can tell you right now Asian kids ain't smarter per capita. They're about the same, maybe even a little less intelligent in certain ways, on average.

But fark if their parents don't ride 'em hard every day and put 'em away wet. I have kids in my children's classes whose schedules are more packed than a Hollywood agent's during Oscars week.

I taught a summer enrichment program once and I had a 3rd grade girl. she was pretty smart; once, she revealed to me that, in addition to normal school, she does an afterschool program, a Saturday school program, and a Sunday Chinese school program. Not only does she go to school 7 days a week, but she also spends more than 40 hours a week in school / doing homework.

I'm Chinese and I went to summer programs and even I think she was being cheated out of a childhood.

Great Odins Raven:If there are more women earning degrees than men, shouldn't the greater number of males in these elite schools be appropriate to compensate and fix that problem?. Isn't that what affirmative action is for? Regulations to prevent imbalances in the system?

From the article: "The fact that girls are underrepresented in New York's top high schools, which tend to be focused on math and science, and which have more than a dozen Nobel laureates among their alumni, worries some academics...""While girls outperform boys on an array of academic benchmarks in high school and college, they still trail on standardized tests, like the SAT, according to federal Department of Education statistics."

Conclusive proof of 3 things:1. That schools are so feminized now that they have lost almost all appeal for boys. Clearly the boys are learning, but have no interest in participating in the schools trained-monkey act.2. That boys are more intelligent than girls, demonstrating this by out-performing girls on tests in subjects that the boys 'supposedly' didn't learn.3. That the educators and academics who worry about the schools system and the girls' performance have completely missed the bigger picture that they have failed in making a schools system that appeals to boys and properly educates them to their full potential. All of this feminizing has artificially raised the education level of young women beyond society's needs.

Great Odins Raven:If there are more women earning degrees than men, shouldn't the greater number of males in these elite schools be appropriate to compensate and fix that problem?. Isn't that what affirmative action is for? Regulations to prevent imbalances in the system?

Of is that only ok if you're helping minorities and women.

They already instituted reverse affirmative action against Asians after they started reaching 70% of students at the elite city schools.

Arthur Jumbles:FTFA: Civil rights groups have argued that using a test as the sole basis of admission favors students with means to prepare for the test, and have pushed unsuccessfully to have the schools adopt additional criteria, like middle school grades, for admission.

Sorry to break your heart but parents with money will always be able to by advantages for their children. If schools use grades to admit student then rich parents will hire their kids tutors, if schools use entrance exams then they'll enroll their kids in test-prep classes.

If poor African-American and Latino parents want their children to succeed they need to do what poor Asian parents do instead of trying to fix the current admissions system so that it doesn't unfairly favor people of privilege. Money will always give people an edge, you can't correct for that.... all you can do is find a strategy that allows you to succeed without that advantage.

Not to mention with the advent of online education and amazon, a lot of this stuff can be life hacked for very little money. I studied for the GREs and GMATs by just using the Princeton Review books which cost about $40 each IIRC. I crushed both of them (except for the GMAT math section, when I suddenly had to pee really badly because I drank too much water before the exam). I'm sure there are online self study products that could act as proxies for those entrance exams.

There has never been a better time in history for poor parents to give their children a leg up in life thanks to the internet.

/cue the "How can they afford $40 a month for broadband?" lib whiners//don't Obama phones have data plans?///at a certain point one has to demand "Why did you have children when it was obvious you could not pay for them and refused to find a sexual partner who could?"

dittybopper:Arthur Jumbles: FTFA: Civil rights groups have argued that using a test as the sole basis of admission favors students with means to prepare for the test, and have pushed unsuccessfully to have the schools adopt additional criteria, like middle school grades, for admission.

Sorry to break your heart but parents with money will always be able to by advantages for their children. If schools use grades to admit student then rich parents will hire their kids tutors, if schools use entrance exams then they'll enroll their kids in test-prep classes.

If poor African-American and Latino parents want their children to succeed they need to do what poor Asian parents do instead of trying to fix the current admissions system so that it doesn't unfairly favor people of privilege. Money will always give people an edge, you can't correct for that.... all you can do is find a strategy that allows you to succeed without that advantage.

I'd argue that it's cultural: You build up a culture that values education very highly, like both Asians and Jews have, and you end up with a higher proportion of them being successful.

ElBarto79:vicejay: The Actual Farking Headline from TFA: "Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City"The article: Despite the fact that girls have higher test scores, boys get more of the slots.

/sorry for shouting. Subby fails at everything.

Subby here, the original headline was "Girls Outnumbered in New Yorks Elite Public Schools".

Look at the link text and you can still see it in there. They changed it after I submitted it.

"Girls [are] outnumbered" means there are more boys than girls. Isn't that what the article says?

voodoolady:ElBarto79: vicejay: The Actual Farking Headline from TFA: "Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City"The article: Despite the fact that girls have higher test scores, boys get more of the slots.

/sorry for shouting. Subby fails at everything.

Subby here, the original headline was "Girls Outnumbered in New Yorks Elite Public Schools".

Look at the link text and you can still see it in there. They changed it after I submitted it.

"Girls [are] outnumbered" means there are more boys than girls. Isn't that what the article says?

Yep.... subby was obviously a product of the American public education system and not the elite kind. :)

voodoolady:ElBarto79: vicejay: The Actual Farking Headline from TFA: "Girls Excel in the Classroom but Lag in Entry to 8 Elite Schools in the City"The article: Despite the fact that girls have higher test scores, boys get more of the slots.

/sorry for shouting. Subby fails at everything.

Subby here, the original headline was "Girls Outnumbered in New Yorks Elite Public Schools".

Look at the link text and you can still see it in there. They changed it after I submitted it.

"Girls [are] outnumbered" means there are more boys than girls. Isn't that what the article says?

Look at the graphic attached to the article. Boys have a slight edge at these 8 schools, but at other elite schools girls are blowing them out of the water, some of them are over 70% female.

ElBarto79:Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

News flash: feminism isn't about equality. They see equality of opportunity is the same as equality of outcome. Their concern is more about less girls getting in (or even applying) than the fact that the girls are doing better (probably due to the feminisation of the education). The trend has been to ignore negative effects to boys in a mad craze to boost up girls (see Title IX and boy's/men's sports - never mind that boys desire to participate more, let's make it equally proportional in funding to cut them off at the knees).

Victim mentality and self-entitlement attitudes are pervasive with feminists. "If a woman doesn't succeed, it's beccause SOMEONE was holding her down, not because she was not as qualified" (or any other reason).

Great Odins Raven:If there are more women earning degrees than men, shouldn't the greater number of males in these elite schools be appropriate to compensate and fix that problem?. Isn't that what affirmative action is for? Regulations to prevent imbalances in the system?

Of is that only ok if you're helping minorities and women.

NO NO NO, we have a system to address this one already. Men get paid more. So it takes less of them in the work force.

A very large factor is mentioned in the comments. Queens is a big farking borough, and there are a miniscule number of "elite" seats in the borough. That means a really long commute by public transportation, especially since a big chunk of the borough is not accessible by subway.

A lot of parents don't want their girls commuting that long, and for what they may perceive is a "dangerous" trip.

So, here's the thing to do: take the schools that are disproportionately male. Filter out all the Queens kids. Re-run the percentages. If you're close to 50/50, you've probably found the answer.

One theoretically easy solution is to open up a couple more "elite" schools in Queens.

ElBarto79:Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard I've had it as a white male in america. Man I'm so damn oppressed! I'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is me.

DrewCurtisJr:super_grass: Girls do better than boys in schools, so what? It's not time to stop ignoring women as some misogynistic farkers would like to think.

You are a typical example of the thinking that addressing inequalities when men and boys are on the short end means ignoring women or is misogynistic.

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard you've had it as a white male in america. Man you're so damn oppressed! You'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is you.

Dedmon:ElBarto79: Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard I've had it as a white male in america. Man I'm so damn oppressed! I'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is me.

ThatGuyFromTheInternet:Dedmon: ElBarto79: Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard I've had it as a white male in america. Man I'm so damn oppressed! I'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is me.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32859540_1_gen de r-wage-women-staffers-higher-paying-fields

super_grass:ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Dedmon: ElBarto79: Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard I've had it as a white male in america. Man I'm so damn oppressed! I'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is me.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32859540_1_gen de r-wage-women-staffers-higher-paying-fields

ThatGuyFromTheInternet:super_grass: ThatGuyFromTheInternet: Dedmon: ElBarto79: Women outnumber men 3:2 in college and at some of the top highschools in New York women are upwards of 70% of the students. Given how massively gender imbalanced the education system is in favor of girls this example of a handful of schools in New York could be held up as a story of boys excelling against all odds. Instead of trying to figure out what these schools are doing "wrong" they could try and figure out what they're doing right and use it as a model to get more boys into school nationally.

Instead it's another opportunity for entrenched feminist attitudes to rear up. Women are always the victim, even in a situation such as this where that claim is absolutely ludicrous. Why is the NYT focusing on these 8 schools where boys are slightly ahead while ignoring the massive gender imbalance in the rest of the country?

My god, you're right, I never noticed how hard I've had it as a white male in america. Man I'm so damn oppressed! I'll just continue to be paid more for the same work and get preferential treatment in nearly every career-based metric. Woe is me.

http://articles.marketwatch.com/2012-07-26/commentary/32859540_1_gen de r-wage-women-staffers-higher-paying-fields

beta_plus:/cue the "How can they afford $40 a month for broadband?" lib whiners//don't Obama phones have data plans?///at a certain point one has to demand "Why did you have children when it was obvious you could not pay for them and refused to find a sexual partner who could?"

People who think kids should be accountable for the sins of their parents should be quietly disposed of.