How do you win 22 of your first 31 home games and then lose 22 of the next 30? Let’s take a look …

It’s not hard to pinpoint the day it all changed for the Giants. They were 42-21 after sweeping the Mets on June 8. The next day, they lost to the Nationals. And then they lost again, and once more. Then the Rockies came to town and the Giants blew three straight saves. Then they went to Chicago and lost twice, and on and on and on …

On the morning of June 9, the Giants led the division by 9 1/2 games. If the Dodgers hold their current four-run lead, the Giants will be 5 1/2 back, a 15-game swing that’s really hard to pull off in two months. Just like it’s not hard to find the day it all changed, it’s not hard to find the reason why the Giants are now just 63-57: They aren’t winning at home anymore.

The Giants were 22-9 at home through the end of that Mets series. They are 8-22 since. That gives us two nice, neat (albeit somewhat small) sample sizes, and that’s the subject of my off-day story: What the bleep has happened at home? That story goes deep into the numbers, but you could dive even deeper. Here, we’ll do that. I wrote most of the story before the seven-run inning yesterday, and some of the ugly numbers are updated in the off-day story. Here, because I have a tee time and don’t feel like updating every … single … stat … the numbers go through August 12, not August 13. The point remains the same.

The stolen bases and sac flies are the ones that stood out. You knew the Giants weren’t hitting for any power at home over the past two months, but they weren’t doing the little things either. That’s partly because of the loss of Angel Pagan, but there’s more to it than that. There are other players in the lineup who can run or execute. If you don’t hit for power, don’t get on base and don’t do the little things … well, you end up getting shut out six times in 29 home games, scoring one run five other times and just two runs six other times. During that 29-game stretch, the Giants failed to score more than two runs 17 different times. They lost every one of those 17 games.

It’s not just the hitters, though. The pitching staff dropped off, too. (Although some, like Ryan Vogelsong, have pitched really well at home and gone unrewarded.) The pitching numbers:

Giants pitchers at home from March 31 to June 8 (31 games):ERA: 2.76Saves: 11 for 14Strikeouts per nine innings: 7.9Batting average against: .220Pitches/inning: 15.2Homers allowed: 21Double plays: 23

Giants pitchers at home from June 9 to August 12 (29 games):ERA: 4.16Saves: 2 for 6Strikeouts per nine innings: 7.3Batting average against: .251Pitches/inning: 15.8Homers allowed: 17Double plays: 20

One last comparison: I had the great Liam Connolly of the Giants PR staff pull the road numbers during this stretch from June 8 to today. They’re 13-14 on the road, with a slash line of .249/.313/.366 and 17 homers in 27 games. They’re scoring 3.8 runs per game, a full run more than they’re scoring at home during this stretch.

The pitching staff has a 3.41 ERA on the road in those 27 games. Through Jake Peavy’s performance yesterday, the staff has a 4.05 ERA in the 8-22 skid at home. That one is just kind of weird, given they’ve pitched in Arizona, Philadelphia and Milwaukee since the start of all this. Again, we’re dealing with small sample sizes, though.

So there you have it. Numbers never lie, right? The hitting numbers are way down, the pitching numbers are up … and the Giants have lost 22 of 30 in a sold-out home park. Is a change coming? Who knows. But to make the playoffs, the Giants will have to figure all this out one way or another. You might be able to win a World Series on the road (see: 2010, 2012), but it’s very hard to get there if you can’t play well at home.

Like I said, there are more numbers in the off-day story linked above. Some other reading if you’re looking for a way to avoid actual work …

That’s it for me this week. I’m going to one of those places where people gather and do things. As always, try and remember that there are a lot of bad things going on in the world right now and this here is just baseball. That’s all, just baseball. It’s supposed to be fun, so try to keep it civil in the comments section. Enjoy the weekend, everybody.

Alex Pavlovic

Post navigation

Is the first line in your headline a joke? What, I think I know the answer to this one… Oh wait, the riddle of ‘what the bleep happened?’ I think I’ve heard this before…

Wow, geez. Thanks for all the stats. The point is we need to strikeout MORE? Is that the key to winning at home? Those are some crazy splits. Very telling indeed. 2.8 runs scored per game at home during this stretch? *Gulp* Golly. That’s terrible.

Alex, you gonna step up to the tee and think like Adam Dunn? Whiff or hit ball far. Just don’t hit it far AND into the drink. Hit ’em straight. Channel the Giants… and go low!

This is an awesome summary of the differences. I’m not adept w/ some of the finer things on B-R’s Play Index or other situational stat engines. Would it be possible for anybody to help out? I’d greatly appreciate it.

I’m curious what our 2-out hitting stats splits were like. You know, runs scored/RBI and RISP. Maybe even AVG. I know they were crazy, other-worldly good for the first part. I’m figuring the 2nd split, not so much. Very curious. TIA.

OJ Samson

AGon with his 6th muti-hit game in his last 7 starts. Belt has 11 all season.

channelclemente

As simplistic a number as it is, TB (total bases) tells a similar story.

OJ Samson

Jayson Werth gets a reckless driving charge and nobody finds out for 5 weeks. Puig gets one and the story is immediately on every sports show and column telling us he is the worst person in the world even before the officer signs the ticket.

OJ Samson

Wilson 50 strikeouts in 40 innings.

OJ Samson

AGon now leads the NL in RBI’s (83). 3 behind Abreu and Miggy for ML lead.

Leo the Lip

Are there beaches in Cupertino?

Enjoy Alex, superb post on this off day!

Maybe Carmen Kiew or Steve Berman will locate you via TMZ …

And haha “BoBo” the Clown gets ignored below!

carmot

Congratulations. AGon’s 100 RBI led the bums last year, 2nd was only 57 RBI. Upping payroll to $260 million means that you now have at least 58 RBI as your second best run producer. That’s a lot of money, not exactly well spent.
But it’s LA, what would one expect?

Michael Scott

The rest of the way…
* Morse- time to platoon at first-with Ishi. Duvall off the bench .
* Rios- get him
* Blanco- spell Pagan, pinch hit
* Pagan- give him a day a week off
* Posey- 1st base when Timmy pitches
* Susac- back down when Hector is ready
* Panik/Duffy- platoon, give Matt a day a week at SS as well
* Panda, Pence- everyday, every inning
* Vogey,MadBum, Hudson, Peavey- good enough
*Timmy- dude, step up or we’ll find something oblique-ish to strain
* Pen-ain’t broke, no need to fix

2holehitting

Thanks Alex, numbers do not lie. Some people tend to suggest they do not matter or do not tell the truth, the fact of the matter is they do and the numbers are almost flipped. The question is what happened and why did they flip on a dime for both pitching and hitting

You have *very* unrealistic expectations, like Lefty and a few others do. The utter nonsense about J.C. is typical- he’s the 7th guy in a 7 guy pen putting up numbers from that spot that most teams would die for- and some want him gone.
A reliever gives up a run, it’s called a melt down. You opine that they’re tired and have nothing to support it. The pen is fine.

Surf Maui

Other big difference is no more Brandon Hicks– maybe he was the key after all. Just kidding i hope all of you know– though his 8 home runs in two months were pretty sweet. And how long has it been since Morse hit one?

Michael Scott

Numbers don’t lie, but doomers always think that when they’re bad they’ll never get better.

carmot

Thanks. But how can I split those specific stats into the time periods I’d like? That is the part where Play Index and other stat engines gets above my head.

channelclemente

I don’t agree. IMO, they have a sweet spot in terms of work, most pens do. However, IMO, when you underwork or overwork them, you get declines that are bigger than typical. It’s a poor metaphor, but they’re like a musical instrument that’s hard to keep tuned. I will admit my expectations are situational, but wins and losses are as well.

carmot

Why kidding? Maybe it is a valid point? Worried about backlash here, I’d understand that. I get it. But honestly? The idea of having 6 or 7 guys in the lineup that can bang 20 HR a year really seemed to deepen our L/U. Maybe changed lots of pitching strategies? Offers different outcomes? Could be.

Michael Scott

July 29. His 4th since May gave way to June.

channelclemente

There are contained within some ‘time splits’, but I believe you have to pay $$ to get what your seeking. Sometime, like game to game ERs, you can ferret out from the game summaries. Look at the pull down menus, there is some stuff in there.

Surf Maui

Certainly I’m not worried about backlash. The fact is that after a hot first 6 weeks Hicks was a strikeout drag.

Michael Scott

Did you pay any attention to Hicks’ trajectory? Check his game logs. Really.

Tom (fm Quinzee)

Alex, thanks for “this here is just baseball.”

That said, not very good baseball.

Pagoda

You’d think if they had J.C. on their team they’d be doing a whole lot better.

Matthew

Is Samardzija less than advertised? Is the AL just so much better than the NL that he is “that good” but they hit better? Is he getting Cained because Cespedes is gone?

I know Cook let the inherited runners score, but Shark isn’t shutting down opponents to the level I think Beane expected.

Matthew

OJSamson bored today. We all pay the “over-posting” price.

Matthew

Steve Physioc- Game Show Host

Michael Scott

Jesus? Last time we tried him he cleansed 10 lepers while the winning run scored.

thecove

Hilarious and scary video at the same time. This is a huge deal but I don’t know that people understand the weight behind it.

Peter Johnson

The point is before he nose dived, he lead the team in Walks, hit a lot of extra base hits, had a lot of game changing HRs, Walk off vs Indians, @ LA Hrs vs Beckett and Kershaw!

carmot

I’ve not thought that highly of Samardzija, personally. I think he got hyped much like Dempster a few years back. He was one of the ‘better available’ arms. People see his velocity and say “wow.” But his velo separation is only about 10 mph. Good arm, good stuff. SBut, some of his peripherals don’t dazzle me, and he’s not been all that consistent. Even though the past 3 years he’s been excellent.

Guys like Wandy Rodriguez and Bud Norris got a lot of attention last trade deadline. I mean, really? I also don’t see Lester as being the ‘dominant’ guy that (partly) ESPN hypes. I’m probably much more selective than most. I wouldn’t want Shields, Lester, or Scherzer.

I’ll bet I’m described as ‘going off the rails’ by saying… maybe I’d prefer to take a chance on Brandon Morrow (Francisco Liriano? Jose Quintana?) for 2015 and spread some payroll to LF, than sign Shields. Or Price or Samardzija for 2016. YMMV.

Peter Johnson

The point is Hicks and Crawford were both getting clutch hits , and when Belt was healthy that made the Giants Lineup one of the deepest in NL, with Belt injured, Pagan injured , Morse slumping and no production from bottom of the order, the lineup very thin.

channelclemente

To paraphrase Yoda…they will, they will. I loved the troll call to action.

Pagoda

At least his water into wine trick is a hit with the home crowd.

channelclemente

More walks, fewer strike outs. His FIP and xFIP are pretty similar to the month or two before he decamped from Chicago. Some say the AL just has more zone disciplined hitters and he did arrive when the A’s ran into some steep competition, but he’s clearly no David Price. Many are quietly likening Cespedes to Pagan, as well, in what he brought to the A’s.

Vegas Giants Fan*

I wanted to remind you that Robby Thompson hit in the 7 spot when he came up with the Giants. He and Jose Uribe started a lot of rallies from the bottom of the order. Maybe Panik and Crawford can do the same thing. I agree with many that would like to see Pence in a more traditional RBI spot in the order. However, right now I like the idea of having as much speed at the top of the order as we can get. Pagan and Pence can score from first on a ball hit into either corner, Panik most likely wouldn’t. He’ll get his opportunity next year. I like him hitting right where he is. Thank goodness he’s not hitting 8th.

Right now the Giants only have to be one game better that the two teams that are ahead of them for the two wild card spots. That’s how I’m looking at the remainder of the season. Just one game. I’m not worried about the Dodgers. If the Dodgers can help the Giants get one of the wild card spots by beating the Giants competition for that spot more power to them. If somehow the Dodgers start to fall back to the Giants we have six games against them in September to do something about it. For me, nothing would be sweeter than for the Giants to squeak into the playoffs and then knock off the Dodgers in the NLCS on their way to WS ring number 3. Nice talking to you, Paul. Give Snorkel a treat for me. Gotta go.

Go Giants. One Game At A Time! 😉

Leo the Lip

Oakland losing 7-4 top of 9th.
Two out two on. KC brings in. Closer.
Jed Lowerie (sp) to the DL
Two opposites can be equally true/ Lester was a good pickup for BB but they MISS Yo Cespedes.

Notsodamus

Off Topic, slightly. Just watching the end of OAK-KC on MLB with the KC feed. OMG. Just fn shoot me. We are sooooo lucky to have K+K. In fact, I haven’t heard another TV team I could stand. AND we have Miller and Fleming! Too bad the top four do the Giants games, kind of redundant. Maybe Miller/Fleming could do the A’s on TV, I would actually watch the A’s then. I’m spoiled. As much as I love the G’s, I don’t know if I could hang with any other broadcasters than our big four.

Thanks CC. Great article. Like I’ve said before: Besides my family, Krukow is the who I want most to outlive me.

I wouldn’t compare Vin to K+K though. Vin is radio play by play gold, but TV………well, just not my personal cup of tea. No disrespect meant to the great one.

channelclemente

To tell the truth, I don’t find Scully my ‘cup of tea’ either. I was a Red Barber, Harry Kalas fan growing up.

DrLefty

I thought the day the A’s signed Cespedes was the day that franchise started turning around. I still can’t quite believe Billy traded him in the middle of a year where they’re trying to win it all. It will be fascinating to see if it turns out to be genius or mad scientist.

OJ Samson

I gave you a break yesterday. Quit complaining.

channelclemente

I agree completely. Add to that, he seems to be allowing them to work the heck out of Samardzija’s arm. Hasn’t he had 2-3 complete games since he came over.

Leo the Lip

Player X is hitting better than player Z on every other Thursday where the temp is less than 80 degrees.

Notsodamus

During my 50 year love affair, I think the fact that the Giants had such great broadcasters deserves some credit for the Giants rep as a class org and their overall popularity. Grew up with Russ and Lon, then Hank! OMG. It could not get any better. Only the current four could carry on this great tradition. Very, very fortunate.

DrLefty

I think the bullpen’s been good, and I don’t want J.C. Gutierrez gone–this season, anyway. If they’re penny-pinching next year after they splurge on Pablo, I could see him gone in favor of a cheaper Kontos (or someone similar).

However, fair or not, it IS a middle reliever’s job to (a) come in when the starter gets tired and hopefully not let his runs score and/or (b) not let any more runs score (to hold a lead or keep a deficit close). If a starter gives up 2 runs in 6-7 innings, that’s a great outing. If a reliever gives up 1-2 runs in .2-1.2 innings, they haven’t done their job, at least for that one day.

channelclemente

I was in Chicago for a decade or so, and a Cubs fan. I really didn’t care for Harry Caray either.

K&K are probably the best I’ve watched on TV. Barber and Kalas were a pure radio experience.

Peter Johnson

He has not gone 9 with A’s, but had a 8 IP complete game road loss. He and Lester are not in A’s long term future, so they are not worried about them throwing a lot of pitches this season.

Notsodamus

I’ll bet. Very cool.

DrLefty

Yes, well said!

I have the 2010 audio compilation of Giants’ radio highlights. The opening clip is Lon (1962), Hank (1989) and Miller (2002) all making their “Giants win the pennant!” calls. I’m not ashamed to say I’ve listened to that many times. As for Russ Hodges’ 1951 call–I wasn’t even born then, and it gives me chills every single time I hear it.

channelclemente

Such is the lot of an A’s arm. Wasn’t it just 3-4 years ago they ground up the entire starting rotation in a season?

channelclemente

And, for whatever reason, pitches/AB.

Notsodamus

Literally gives me the chills! Oh, you said that. Ha!. Well, me too!

avwh

Makes it a bit more understandable, perhaps. Still seems like a horrible “solution” for his family, though.

PuigRomoDirkRonaldo

Belt will be a household name by 2014 LOL where is that moron ClutchUp…

channelclemente

I don’t know, that’s a long dark road. Anyway, some black keys along the way.

I appreciate the reminder Alex. This is just baseball. It is fun. Great that so many of us enjoy talking about Giants baseball here.

Brownie

What are you talking about? 7-3 was the final score and Holland got his MLB leading 36th save

Bleacher Bob

2010 Ashkon always reduces me to joyous tears.

Notsodamus

Wow, Alex, that really brought it home. Kind of illustrates how good offense helps pitching, as the pitchers were often working with leads that gave them an advantage, and helped them excel. No surprise when the hitting took a dive it affected the pitching.

It’ll be interesting to see how BB’s going all in on pitching affects the A’s the rest of the way. Giving up Yoenis could have a similar cause and effect. But, when they make the playoffs, pitching will be king.

Bleacher Bob

Flem cracking his voice is an all time great radio call.

Bleacher Bob

The 1987 division clinch makes fools of many strong men. “The Giants are the champs.”

Matthew

Best 13 minutes I spent today by far…thanks

Bleacher Bob

I’m sure his family was familiar with his suffering. They loved him when he was available and they love him now. Depression plus a terminal diagnosis might make an end of life decision more understandable, and even if you would not do it yourself, a few minutes in Robin’s shoes could change a POV.

Kramerica

For all those who do not want to re-sign Pablo, my question is what if Posey can’t play 3rd? Go look around the majors at 3B, it is VERY thin and Pablo would be replaced with a MUCH weaker player if Posey can’t play 3rd. Not to mention, even if Posey can play 3rd neither Hector or Susac has shown any indication they can hit well enough consistently at the big league level (although obviously we still have no idea with Susac until he gets more ABs).

I am not a GM, sadly I will in all likelihood never be a GM, but I don’t think it takes a front office savant to have seen that it was a good idea to sign Pence prior to last year’s offseason as he practically gave the Giants leverage indicating he really wanted to stay. If the Giants hadn’t low-balled Pablo at the beginning of this year he could have in all likelihood been signed for less than the Pence contract and now stands to make $100 million+ (and yes a weight clause could have been put in).

The job of a GM is not always to do a wait-and-see. It’s the job of a GM to make projections and know what guys are worth negotiating with prior to free agency and which are not (like they did with Cain and despite his two down years I still think that was a good signing). I am THRILLED Pence ended up resigning but now I think the Giants will lose Pablo when they could have had him for significantly less than what he’ll make on the open market. I have absolutely ZERO confidence the Giants will find an adequate replacement for him, which is the argument you need to make if you’re going to say just let him walk.

channelclemente

Never, ever judge another man’s shoes is a good rule, it seems.

channelclemente

His stuff is all on Youtube. I try one a day to keep in practice laughing at something funny.

Bleacher Bob

Ridicule his shoes if necessary, but try not to judge his decisions in those shoes. Because we just don’t know what’s it’s like.
But if the dude is wearing stupid shoes, let me cast the first stone!

avwh

I guess I’m putting myself more in his family’s shoes than his shoes, FWIW.

Leo the Lip is a good name for ClutchUp, seeing how he is always kissing everyone’s @55, except the umps.

Brownie

Come on man, enough with the name calling.

Doughnut

Yes, this extremely important stuff. Our last bit of true unrestricted freedom in this country and they are coming for it. They have coded the language to obfuscate the issue and you won’t hear anything useful on your average news.

The fact is the internet is the last truly 100% unfiltered form of information and that scares the Oligarchy, which our Country has turned into. The same people on the boards of this company are on the boards of many other interests as well connected and intertwined with government. They seek to stop the dissemination of unbiased and wide ranging criticism which is essential to a free society. Much of activism today is centered around the internet. This is a truly anti-American idea and hopefully does not prevail.

Bleacher Bob

Maybe you can help us remember Leo the Lip’s career, to help put your opinion in a modern perspective. What did Leo the Lip contribute to SF Bay Area baseball?

OJ Samson

You can’t spell Leo the Lip without LOL.

Brownie

I’d rather read butt kissing than mudslinging and Ad hominem posts

Doughnut

Will we though? Seems like we have so many problems at home and abroad that this is not getting the attention it deserves. A lot of talk about Iraq and not much about issues here at home that concern the average American.

OJ Samson

Relax, it’s an off day.

Doughnut

Yeah, I don’t know if I necessarily like that trade or how beneficial it was. But, the truth is the A’s were the best team in the majors before the trade and they are the best team after. They look to be on a mission. Hope I am wrong but they do a lot of things well.

Matthew

Since you are picking letters out ( quite the unique endeavor, that) have you noticed OJ Samson has, in an ironic twist, an A …and two S’s.

Bleacher Bob

I noticed that his gloves don’t fit.

Brownie

I’m relaxed. Can’t wait for for football in an hour even though it’s a pre season game.

OJ Samson

Matthew has a What as in WTF R U talking about.

Matthew

I even await the opening theme song…the answer is “yes” to the question ” are you ready for…..”

Bleacher Bob

Baseball provides 162 games a year that matter.
More if there are playoffs.
I am not sure why people resist being a baseball fan.

Brownie

Damn shame that they don’t use it anymore, so sad

Doughnut

I guess I am in the minority. I like Fosse and Kuiper. I like Fosse more then Kuiper but they work well together. They are definitely a different style. They are relaxed and almost tranquil in a way. Fosse knows the game real well, I enjoy listening to him and also am kind of happy for him because I know how bad deep down Fosse has wanted the A’s to win games even when they were playing all AAA guys. He is 100% class.

I agree with you now that Pablo should be re-signed, but the .180-hitting, erratic, undisciplined Pablo of the first half of this season I was willing to let go seeing Posey move to Third. [So I do not lament that the Giants did not re-sign him earlier.] You are right, he gives punch that no Giants-future-catcher will match from what we have seen. I think now the real question is how high should the Giants go? That involves overall payroll that others here have a better handle on than me. It becomes a complicated trade-off when you need funds for a 2015 LF and SP.

Leo the Lip

Willie Howard Mays, Jr.

Matthew

ESPN / ABC = Disney = PC overload

Bleacher Bob

This story is not being told well.
This relationship is an important part of racial relations in modern US history.

Voting against net neutrality will be the noose many of them are hung by. It will increase turnout.

Leo the Lip

Hank was every bit as good as our Big 4 right now…. he also had issues or vice versa with Baer … who KNEW Jon Miller was released, let go by the Orioles. Hank “left” for the second time in 1996 and Miller arrived for 1997. Hanks first leaving was in 1986 via a disagreement with radio station management.
Enjoy the classic below.

I think you make great points.
I’m worried we re-sign Pablo, but I’m clueless how we’d fill our need otherwise. Especially a LHB in the middle of our L/U. There’s only a old guy like Aramis available, or we try to trade. Maybe somebody like Mike Olt, who’s nearly the same dice roll as Duvall, to be honest. Shift Belt to LF? Who plays 1B, even if Posey takes 3B? It’s not another bat, just moving Belt to LF or Posey to 3B.

And yeah, I believe payroll will dictate the overall flexibility. Limited $$ to spend. We really need TWO bats: LF & 3B. I’d give 2B to Joe Panik. Yup. Roster imbalance and payroll imbalance. Not a good combo.

The Oracle

With all of the coverage of the unrest in Mo., why is there no discussion about the fact that, in nearly every photo of Michael Brown, he’s wearing red clothing? And the fact that so many of the young male protesters are also wearing red? I guess I know the answer to that. It doesn’t fit with the preferred narrative.

paul in p.v.

Gracias for that reminder VGF. I really think that Joe Panik has ML presence, maybe a higher ceiling than Craws, whom Snorkel LUVS. I recall that Craws hit mucho mejor when he batted second (briefly). They are a fairly deft 2B combo.

Also like your take on the rest of the way. Look what the Cards accomplished in 2011, scraping back from the pits of hell on the final day. Never say never! Vamos Gigantes!!

(esp. if we knock the dogers out) :o)

paul in p.v.

What’s the point O?

Bleacher Bob

Many of us are not able to connect these dots Oracle.
Help please.

Notsodamus

Nobody had better pipes than Lon, but Hank was my personal all time fave. Lon’s era of Mays, Mac, Marichal, Perry, Jim Ray, et al will perhaps never be matched. But the Thrill years were close, and nobody could deliver like Hank. He even made the bad games and years fun to listen to. One of a kind, combo of skill and personality never to be equaled again. IMO.

Thanks Leo!

BALDHEADSLIK1

R u saying he is a blood gang member?

channelclemente

They’re Cardinal fans?

HaakAway

“It would be nice if … ” [not a great intro] … Morse came back to his early form (showing good trend … .333 in last six games) and re-signing him made sense. He gets points for Clubhouse Plus. If he does not then you have to spend $$ there first, re-sign Pandy (160 games/year) instead of a Shields (32 games/year). Vogey is looking like a good re-sign for 2015 right now at least.

The Oracle

I’m not saying the shooting of this kid was justified. I don’t know what happened. But he is being portrayed simply as a college student who avoided trouble. The color red, especially when worn/displayed in a such constant, obvious way, is often associated with being a Blood gang member. Brown has also been photographed displaying gang-like hand signs. Again, even gang membership alone does not mean the shooting was justified, but the fact that it isn’t yet part of the general discussion about the incident demonstrates typical media bias.

So, Rob Manfred becomes the next MLB commish. I read that he’s expected to carry many of Selig’s ways and tendencies. That seems very no bueno. People that know more about these inner workings, is there any hope for the game being fixed from (what I see as) some of its biggest flaws?

Inconsistent strike zones & egotistical umpiring

Hypocritical about PEDs and not enough testing/done to keep it out of MLB
conversation of DH throughout NL
ASG winner for home field of WS
Messed up tv/revenue sharing in BAL/WAS
SF/OAK territorial rights
teams like HOU, MIA, and CHC not spending revenue sharing
tanking for draft pick
IFA players, new draft policies
QO system for free agents

channelclemente

Yeah you are, you’re making case for a mitigating circumstance.

The Oracle

I can’t speak to the quality of the website I linked, and I’m sure the article inspired comments from racist knuckleheads, but the photos speak for themselves. Sorry to bring this here, but the incident has been mentioned before and I find the distorted media presentation to be annoying.

The Oracle

I don’t know what happened. Maybe the cop did go too far in the end, or maybe he didn’t, but there needs to be a fair investigation and a fair discussion.

The Oracle

I don’t know, but the photos provide some evidence he may be. Again, that wouldn’t by itself mean that he deserved to be shot, but I think it is a legitimate part of the discussion.

Matthew

Paul, I think TO’s words are his point. My interpretation of his point is:

A) unjustified killing, most likely
B) lack of courage by the media to tell the broad story, but rather a narrow one that perhaps makes it worse by fanning the flames

carmot

I don’t know if there is another option the Train Bust will like more than Morse for LF. His unbelievable start and terrible part since then, actually balances to a pretty good slash line. Does he sign for less than 2/20M?

Vogey took the insult of cutting 1.5M off a team option to stay, has done VERY well. Time to pay up? 1/8M up to 1/10M?

So, we hope for Cain to be 3.00 ERA again. But we don’t have a top-3 or top-4 that is scary good. at least two *could end up as very good #3’s OR low #5’s.

I want a young guy for LF (or CF, moving Pagan to LF), because I think it’s most likely where the “fit” is for us. I think Andrew Aplin is the perfect guy, could be available, we have they pitching (they need) to get him.

Or just *HOPE* that Jarrett Parker, Adam Duvall, and/or Daniel Carbonell become really good really fast and get a chance.

Doughnut

Don’t be surprised. You can’t get unbiased mainstream media news. It doesn’t exist. Regardless, it still sounds like there was really no justifiable reason to shoot another human being in that situation, especially from a cop. Just another instance of the Police State emerging in this country. Cops are completely out of control.

The Oracle

As to A, I don’t know enough to judge at this point. As to B, definitely.

Bleacher Bob

How did Willie Mays really feel about Leo?
That relationship has never been well explored.

BALDHEADSLIK1

If it was a white female 18 yrs old with everyone wearing red including her in her photos would possible gang member come to mind or is it because he’s a black young man wearing red in all of his photos?Let me guess your caucasian?

Doughnut

The game is rigged my friend. The huge industry in the end will get what they want. It will be a choice of picking the lesser of two evils. All that money they spend in Washington has a purpose. They write the laws and back the politicians election fund as I am sure you know. It doesn’t matter if it is D or R, they are on both sides and have a ridiculous amount of control over the situation. They get to pick the major actors or at the minimum have a huge say in who they are.

They may have to concede a couple of damaging points but IN THE END they will get a solution one way or the other that vastly benefits them or they will put new people in place. They control both sides D and R no matter what you read. All that money spent has a consequence. The real issue here is that we need to figure out a better way of eliminating lobbying and purchasing of our elected public servants.

Bleacher Bob

any black man/woman gets higher scrutiny. we all seem to accept this.

lolSabean

What makes you think that they could have signed him for less than the market value?

channelclemente

Could be, but I won’t concede to that level of cynicism.

Leo the Lip

No chance @ any change. None

Notsodamus

Leo, I always thought Hank retired because he wanted to. Guess I was wrong. Maybe just wanted to believe it. I’ve been reading this blog long enough to realize you know a helluva lot more about the inner sanctum than I do. Thanks for sharing the real deal.

Matthew

Above, Doughnut makes the point that cops are out of control. Perhaps these incidents point to that fact, but I would not want to walk in their shoes.

What he also says, in so many words, is that the media is out of control.

As I get older, it sure seems so much worse than ever before. We could go on all night, and many here would be a 180 from each other…that’s life. Whether the story is Hamas/Israel, ISIS, immigration reform, any issue…the lack of true depth and fair information is beyond rare.

Perhaps the killing could have been avoided. perhaps young men don’t understand the gravity of seemingly “innocent” clothing, and signing, perhaps cops are too empowered or too scared or too disillusioned. Perhaps we all don’t want to give the effort to dive deep into both sides of everything to see the perspective of everyone involved in conflict. It’s easier to boast and yell and opine.

But the direction this is all headed is clearly the wrong one. I love my children more than life itself, and I am scared of the country they will inhabit as I go away…

Matthew

Baldy, if you would be so kind, can you go down and read one of my responses to TO..I truly want and need your opinion, as I cannot live in the shoes of either side.

BALDHEADSLIK1

EXACTLY, that’s why i give my boss not a damn thing to complain about when it comes to my work performance because 10 yrs ago when i was first hired they looked up and down for problems with my work, my background check took 3 weeks lomger then other coworkers. As a black man were expected to …k up all of the time, we have to work harder them the next man to get the things that we want and need out of life. FACT

lolSabean

The future might be bad? now is scary enough, especially if one is pessimistic.

Leo the Lip

All law enforcement ‘people’ speak your speak. My brotherinlaw cop shot a guy between his eyes after he didn’t stop after “halt, police”. The publicity ruined him. He left and moved to Hawaii.

Notsodamus

Amen brother.

Leo the Lip

I brought it here by simply stating I hope cooler heads prevail in Fergusson Missouri

BALDHEADSLIK1

Cant find it Matthew, getting ready to clock out and head home but i will find it later at home when im nice and comfy ok?

Matthew

Thanks…starts with “Above, Doughnut….”

God bless us all, my man

Leo the Lip

Ought oh…

Bleacher Bob

How will things be different 10 years from now when a young black man begins applying for jobs locally?

South City Jim

Well, looking at the box score it certainly looks like BeeWeezie did his best to help us out. Unfortunately two trips took him out one or two batters too soon.

livefreerdi

Alex backing up my analysis: There are players who can run and execute plays who aren’t doing it. The question that no one has asked Bochy: Are they not being asked? Are they being told NOT to? Are they too dumb to figure it out for themselves at the Major League level? (the last one should be rephrased).

BALDHEADSLIK1

Probably the same

channelclemente

The family, community members, and news inquiry have unearthed no evidence whatsoever, the boy was involved in gang activity, and numerous statements to the contrary. To infer so is, IMO, an act of moral cowardice. To draw a conclusion based on his shirt color is an act of stupidity, momentary let’s hope. For christ sake, the boys father had a red shirt on when they interviewed him on TV.

Bleacher Bob

So rephrase it. This does seem to be the crux of our disagreements about the Giants.

Leo the Lip

Leo was like a second father to “Buck” !

livefreerdi

Selig is the worst major sports commissioner in our lifetime, if you measure success by the relative appeal of the sport. No sport has sunk further than baseball under Selig. Major League Baseball now ranks no better than 5th, and maybe it’s lower than that, in popularity (behind pro and minor-league (college) football, pro and minor-league basketball, and maybe NASCAR).

Bleacher Bob

It will be better. Blackness matters less than it did 20 years ago. Hispanicness matters less too. Whiteness is suspicious.

Leo the Lip

Pablo is signed….

paul in p.v.

lmao.

livefreerdi

Classic Dodger luck kicking in … pick up a couple of stiffs out of desperation and have them rack up wins.

Peter Johnson

I am thinking the Braves losing helps Giants in Wild Card race, rooting against Pirates, Cards, Braves, Reds, Brewers, any team that might be in Wild Card race.

channelclemente

If you ever been to St Louis, you’d think, if shirt color was the mark, it was inhabited by bloody gang members.

Matthew

Fosse is a true A’s die hard, but he gargles with marbles and has sentence structure of a pinball. I just can’t listen to him or follow his points…too exhausting. Baby Kuiper is Ok.

Its hard to say that the reason for the shooting was the cops are out of control. It could have just been a heat of the moment mistake or something completely different. We don’t know all the facts so I guess I shouldn’t judge in that matter.

What I do know is the reaction to the frustration of the people IS out of control and shows the increasing Militarization of our Police forces even in small towns which is extremely disturbing to me. Look at the gear they are using and the tactics they are using and to me those actions are completely out of control. They have detained media, and are using force where it is not required. Treating citizens as 2nd class citizens. Not good folks.

Bleacher Bob

We sure will. Sooner rather than later.

Matthew

Yup, I see Hicks as a positive story for the 2014 season.

paul in p.v.

Agree Matthew – the direction is relentless, seemingly toward more violence, every time. Too many guns and grenades and hair-triggers. No good. snorkel

paul in p.v.

HAR-DE-HAR Bob. :o?

Peter Johnson

The Giants are a Very slow team, Pence, Pagan, Blanco, only players with above average Speed, and Pence ,and Blanco have made a lot of base running mistakes lately, running team out of scoring chances. Giants can not win with out hitting a lot of extra base hits .

paul in p.v.

Don’t regard it as luck – they’ve got the pesos, and scoop up anyone available to get to the finish line: Hernandez, Barney, now Correia – these guys can play. We have to overcome the unlevel playing field.

Kramerica

Because the ceiling Pablo’s agents were looking at was basically the Pence contract, the Giants low-balled him at 3/40 and common ground more than likely could have been struck (closer to the 5/90 Pence deal). Instead, they didn’t have faith in Pablo, somewhat understandable given his weight concerns, but IMO overestimated the 3B market (not realizing there are VERY few good 3B, especially those <30). I guess I don't view the weight issue in the sense others do, albeit trepidation is warranted, but I think a weight clause could have been inserted. I just think the Giants were too stubborn with this negotiation given the dearth of quality MLB 3B. If Pablo were a LF then no problem, but he plays what is now an increasingly premium position and I think a deal could have been reached. Do I KNOW that? Of course not, but in the offseason I don't think Pablo was in a position to turn down something in the neighborhood of 5/80. I don't think it's a stretch to say his current production was rather predictable.

Michael Scott

” Again, that wouldn’t by itself mean that he deserved to be shot”
Uh, OK.
I’m going with “The Natural” and “Hoosiers”..

Kramerica

Semantics are unnecessary for purposes of this discussion.

Matthew

I was thinking that during their series…in one way or another, the Giants are helped in any series which “top” teams face each other

2holehitting

180 hitting for the first month of a half, since May 13th hitting well over 300.

channelclemente

You wonder. Actually violent crime is down in the US. How much of what we perceive is a consequence of the ‘if it bleeds it leads’ media mindset.

So… Is it technically a contract starting next year, or an extension? If it starts next year…

Trade Pablo now! lol.
PIT needs him at 1B, we need Nick Kingham as our #3 in our rotation for 2015-2020. Dunno why the video is dimmed, but seriously. Sits 92-94, hybrid curve that drops from armpits to bounce on home plate. Change w/ great arm side fade and depth. He’ll give us 200 IP per season. Maybe not high enough on their depth chart to take Liriano or Volquez rotation slots for 2015. They need to go for it in 2014.

Here’s a question for the ‘Peanut gallery:’ Let’s assume you’ve got excellent judgement and you’re up at bat with a count of 3 balls and 2 strikes. The next pitch is borderline, (For the sake of this hypothetical, assume the pitch will be called correctly.) What do you do?

The correct answer is: TAKE. Always take.

You’ve got a 50% chance of getting on base. Those are the best odds you could ever get.

I suspect if you ask Bochy that question, the answer might be different.

Notsodamus

I hear ya. Look at the attendance figures, at most games parks are only half full. Yet, Cable TV contracts are going through the roof. How do you explain that dichotomy? Maybe cost of attending in person too high, so they watch from home, driving up ratings while attendance wanes? Don’t know, just spitballin’.

Matthew

True, and yet..gangs of all persuasions WANT us to infer and conclude based on dress and signs and then acts. It creates a very fragile and edgy situation.

Peter Johnson

Wow, Giants have the richest owner in MLB, have over 300 straight sell outs, and have some of the highest prices for parking , tickets , and food in MLB, they can afford to do anything they want, jut chose not to.

Michael Scott

I hope he would give a different answer.

carmot

Seems like owners are quite happy. Tv/media money. The revenue engines are healthier and more robust than ever. Likely the significant and determining factor that got Manfred in. Yeah, Selig has been terrible… for baseball IMO. But not for owners.

right his trajectory was slacking off just like BB9 you claim was on a 40-45 HR pace

Matthew

I get it. You are right. But’ you also know what I am saying.

Doughnut

Yeah, I agree on many points. I do like Samardzija. But as to those other guys, i just don’t like paying Top dollar for pitchers who have already experienced their prime. They may still be good but I think pitching is just so dependent on youth. There are guys who are able to beat that theory but in the long run I think if you are paying TOP dollar for guys who are around 30 or older you are in trouble. I would target young pitching with live arms.

South City Jim

Good point. The thought crossed my mind last night but when the Bums lost I thought, well maybe they’ll lose today.

Michael Scott

Bochy has his philosophy on this and like it or not, he’s not changing. Are you too dumb to figure that out?

Peter Johnson

The Umpires like to give pitchers a strike on borderline pitches, that is why announcers say a hitter is in protect mode, taking a called 3rd strike is a sin in baseball.

Doughnut

I guess different strokes for different folks. I never have had any
problem understanding him and I treat him as very credible when it comes to baseball and even more then that somebody that has values and standards that he holds which can be rare. Those things are more important to me then sentence structure, which I agree is not great.

It was an acquired taste for me. Years ago, I thought they were the worst team in baseball and they were completely boring but a few years ago I started seeing it differently.

carmot

Thanks, agree w/ you too. One issue I’d have is, spending $$$. On a guy that goes once every 5 games. IF he were to go down injured? We aren’t the NYY or LAD, we wouldn’t spend more resources to replace him. Look at Scoots, for example, we stayed w/ Hicks, Abreu, Arias, Adrianza.

I don’t doubt any of these guys could be perfectly healthy and great performers for several consecutive years. I wouldn’t bet my playoff hopes on it. Same like Chase Utley, I wrote on a while back. Lots of young arms fell to TJS this year, I realize this, but I’d rather take my chances on prime years any time. Cole Hamels is the exception, he’d be awesome IMO. YMMV.

channelclemente

Yes, I do. If you want to read an extremely speculative but very interesting article on violence and its causes, this is it. We MAY have actually done this to ourselves.

I agree with Mike. There’s an infinite number of variables so you can’t possibly answer this question. Who’s up next? What’s the score? Any runners on base? What inning is it? Where’s the pitch located? If it’s down and in, and perhaps off the plate, that’s Pablo’s wheel house.

channelclemente

Actually, not swinging is futile. You should read this, it actually suggests its strike zone variance that’s the culprit, but holding a bat stationary isn’t likely to help.

I’m glad if you enjoy them. It’s great that people have varying tastes and choices. I just recall watching a game a few years ago, they were talking about some food thing, like a cookout. When they finally got back to a word of the game, it was like: “So Crisp struck out and now Jaso takes a walk after reaching a full count.” Never a word introducing Crisp for his AB. I was like, “wow.”

I got here just as fast as I could after I got many texts that The Oracle is feuding with everyone because he accused people who wear red as being gang bangers. smh

This is what happens when Leo/ClutchUp and dingle fingle post non-sports crap on a sports blog. It always ends in fighting and accusations. smh

OJ Samson

Dingle Fingle, gang expert.

MLBSF

Did I miss anything else good today. I heard Los Angeles won again and increased their comfortable lead

Michael Scott

Pictures often don’t tell the whole story.

OJ Samson

LOL at Bleacher Bob instigating by saying he couldn’t connect the dots.

Brownie

I love it, a bunch of white older guys debating perceived racism and leo talking about his brother in law shooting some guy dead cuz he didn’t stop.

OJ Samson

Brownie was attacking me like he does to you.

AGon had 3 hits and took the NL lead in RBI’s for a few hours.

Brownie

I attack everyone I like equally but the fact remains that you were trying to stir Ish up

OJ Samson

LOL @ complaining at unlevel playing field while paying Tim Lincecum 17 mil.

MLBSF

Sounds like I missed a lot of good arguments and account cancellations today

channelclemente

Alex din’t do an analysis, he used his research department.

OJ Samson

It’s what I do best

MLBSF

LOL @ paul in p.v. complaining that the Dodgers have the pesos but the billionaire owners of the Giants don’t.

Too funny

Brownie

Maybe, I’m going to hear a lot of recriminations for my response below.

MLBSF

Hopefully.
I mean hopefully not

Brownie

I know. It does get repetitive at times

channelclemente

The largest number of strikes in MLB this year have been thrown by David Price, not a big surprise. The second highest number has been thrown by R.A. Dickey.

OJ Samson

I’ll try to bring some fresh material.

Brownie

Sounds good

Brownie

It’s kinda dead this evening

carmot

It’s not just about the money. Giants have a high payroll already. Giants have one of the highest rankings for ‘fan engagement’ as well. Oh, I guess that means more revenue streams, actually. Okay, it is just about the money. But, “it’s not a money issue.” Right Sabean?

I was thinking bout making my controversial prediction for the weekend series against Philly but I think I will wait till tomorrow

carmot

Dang. Was just checking up on Aaron Nola, the guy I was really hoping we could draft this year. PHI got him ahead of us. Already has 8 starts, he’s pitching at AA Reading. I’m getting highly concerned about Beede. Seems like Tidrow & Co either can fix his mechanics quickly, or they can’t at all. His control issues are worrisome.

No way I place Beede top-5 in our system. Not until something shows me he’s gained better control. Like Crick, no way can I rank him up top either. This is not good folks. Sure, YMMV. I know.

OJ Samson

Want me to instigate something?

Matthew

I wonder what your little blog group will be like when you are “old”. My guess is some will be much more understanding, while a few will be ranting and raving in hopes for attention that has been so elusive.

MLBSF

Carmot I don’t think I’ve ever seen you post less than 850 words per comment. But then again YMMV

smh

Matthew

…thanks. I often wonder about all the things we don’t know…we’re likely afflict ourselves still. This was a good read

OJ Samson

Did you know ketchup is a good source of lycopene?

carmot

I could try. Shall I use your material as a reference for concise, yet unproductive, contributions here?

Matthew

Yes, I did. I learned that in the 60’s

OJ Samson

Shots fired

Brownie

Did I strike a nerve there? What’s with the little? Have you faced racism?

BALDHEADSLIK1

Fabulous Post, kids are aware of the clothes theyre wearing now more then ever but they do not care because its cool to look cool, cops are afraid of BLACK MALES NOT BLACK FEMALES, bkack men between the ages of 18 and 30 are becoming extinct or either locked up in some penitentiary somewhere its sad, i have a first cousin from Houston, TX who was released from prison after serving 25 years in Huntsville State Penitentiary for a double homicide outside of a nightclub and unfortunately this is just 1 of many events that lead the police to become afraid of black men. Not all black men are violent and physical in nature but television shows like lock up and gangland advertise these shows which are violent in nature which is just ludicrous.The world is a bad place to be in during these times and to top it off i have 3 gorgeous daughters 18,21 and 24 who are handling there business in life very well but i worry myself sick at times thinking about what might happen when theyre out with friends. Matthew the only thing i can do is pray fir a better world but sometimes it feels like its falling on deaf ears.

channelclemente

Did you ever read Kieth Law’s ‘scouting report’ on Sales. It’s on the interweb, and a riot in how wrong it was.

Brownie

Sure, just leave my name out of it

OJ Samson

I just did with Carmot and MLBSF

DrLefty

Dude, Beede’s only pitched three innings and has an ERA of 0.00. Maybe it’s a bit early to throw in the towel on him (or the coaches)?

MLBSF

I feel carmot hates me more than you. I will put him down as having his vote

carmot

IDK, maybe years back. Let me guess… Delivery issues, injury waiting to happen. Likely a bullpen arm? Look at his stuff. Control, velo, movement. Incredible. I’ve been fascinated by Sale since he broke into MLB from the bullpen. Dang, he is good. I’ll look it up sometime.

Michael Scott

He’s pitched 5.2 innings as a professional and you are ” getting highly concerned about Beede”?

OJ Samson

I don’t tangle with Carmot. His posts are to long for me to read. His vote is all yours.

channelclemente

And poor changeup, can’t command the strike zone, as I recall. Picked him as a marginal 4-5.

carmot

I’m not throwing in the towel. Just saying I’m worried. My eyes don’t see a delivery I like. Even when his stuff is on, I’m not sure it’s top-of-the-rotation stuff at the highest level. I don’t think a lot of guys ‘suddenly’ figure out how to cut 6+ BB/9 to less than half. It’s a concern, I haven’t given up.

MLBSF

haha

channelclemente

I’m being silly, but Koufax did.

carmot

Amazing. The “can’t miss” picks, they’re often just as wrong about. You know, the ones with superstar written all over ’em. Sure, it’s hard to project. But they’re supposed to be better at it than all the rest of us. Are they? Law, especially. lol.

OJ Samson

Are you going to let Carmot talk about you like that?

MLBSF

He is on 20 minutes punishment ignore

carmot

I’ll very rarely choose to converse w/ you any longer. But, this comes from the guy that says Duvall doesn’t have the hit tool to stay in MLB after 47 AB’s. The irony.

carmot

I don’t hate. Go ahead, so say what you say. It’s free press, without much regulation here on GE. I’m not a moderator.

Matthew

I felt it was a bit targeted and presumptuous with the “white older guys”…I certainly have NOT faced racism to a level near what you and others may have. To say I cannot understand it to a decent level, however, would also be presumptive. I also personally think such discussions as before are healthy…healthier than the immature “attacks” by others (not you) that are excused by a veil of supposed humor. They may not be racist, but they are immoral, and some of those you banter with are very guilty.

MLBSF

lol WHY does my name always come up even when someone else is getting yelled at. smh

Michael Scott

His hit tool has been questioned throughout his career.
From Jim Callis at MLB.Com:
“22. Adam Duvall, 1b/3b. He stands out as one of the few power hitters in the Giants system, having bashed 95 homers in the Minors the last four seasons and two more for San Francisco (off Mike Leake and Cliff Lee) this summer. Duvall lacks a solid tool other than his pop and some scouts see him as nothing more than a mistake hitter, but he deserves credit for his constant production.”

That changeup to Duvall to get him looking was downright filthy. Lots of his changeups were… Are… Will be…

OJ Samson

Looks like Carmot did not cast a ballot for you.

channelclemente

Nobody has the slightest clue what race/color/persusion you are. And since you run with trolls, no one is likely to believe much you say.

Michael Scott

John Sickels at minorleagueball.com :

“19) Adam Duvall, 3B, Grade C+: Not toolsy and limited defensively but gets the job done with power, hit 17 homers with .252/.320/.465 line in Double-A then knocked seven more homers in Venezuelan Winter League. Chance to be a fine role player, older guy at age 25.”

LOL @ the Oracle pouring kerosene all the blog, lighting a match and then kicking back and taking it all in. Too funny

smh

Ryan

LOL. Maybe should have tanked a few more games last year to get Nola. He sounds great and worthy of a higher pick than Beede. We’ll just have to see on Beede and Crick. Maybe Joe Panik should be the #1 prospect because he can clearly play at this level.

Ryan

Thank for the reminder. Alex, about baseball just being a game and that the world feels like it’s teetering on the brink.

Better news out of Ferguson today. Very relieved that higher powers have relieved the local police of their command. I hope the captain of that police force never commands men with arms again. From the feed on Huffington Post:

You make a good point, Ryan. I hadn’t thought of it, but I think I’d absolutely have to put Panik #1 right now. Watching MiLB games in lo-def. Not evaluating a hitter against MLB pitching, is tougher. Pitchers, it’s what they can do with their pitches. A bit easier to project in this regard?

My assessments are my own, with my own eyes. I don’t need to recount Callis or Sickels as my own opinion. What I’ve seen from Panik, especially at the MLB level, is truly impressive. Yeah, sure Panik #1.

I don’t give a crap what you say. You are about as useful as white crayon.Go away and bother someone else.

Brownie

I don’t give a crap what you say. You are about as useful as white crayon.Go away and bother someone else.

Matthew

Thanks much, Baldy… As Leo said last night in so many words, let’s hope (and pray) that cooler heads will prevail…someday…everywhere.

OJ Samson

LOL @ not know what color brownie is. I would say Brown. Just guessing.

MLBSF

True. They teamed up to even cause a feud between brownie and matthew.

The only person missing is efrain

Brownie

Do you actually believe a word he says?

MLBSF

Dingle is here around the clock. There’s a zero percent chance he’s missed any of the many times you’ve said that you’re Indian
smh

Peter Johnson

Price has thrown most innings in AL, the 2nd most pitches, gave up most HRs, and 4th most hits. The Rays used him up since they knew he was not going to be with them in future .

Ryan

Most people are not going to think this way. Panik is quickly losing “prospect status” but one can just about project him an every day second baseman capable of playing above average defense and batting between .250 and .300 with a nice little 7-9 % walk rate, but with low ISO. And everyday player in the middle is certainly more valuable than a reliever if that is what Crick projects to. That said, Crick is #1 and Panik is 5-7ish on my list.

Matthew

Beane says take. Bochy says swing. Tomato, tomahto.

I love baseball

OJ Samson

No, that is why he is called Dingle.

OJ Samson

Imagine the flak you or I would have gotten for starting this. The Oracle gets off free.

Ryan

This one goes out to Leo the Lip just because his handle conjures this diddy –

Okay, fair enough. You may recall last season, I had Crick, Escobar, Hall for 1, 2, 3 respectively. Value, to me, is based on the big club. And they were right up there. Many see Hembree as better than Hall, I just have felt Hall can/might be the better one of ’em.

Is it 100 AB’s max for rookie status? I guess Panik is losing his prospect status.

Geez, I thought George Springer could be closest to the next Stanton (Aaron Judge is the other I’ve mentioned). Plenty of HOU rankings didn’t have him top-10 for the past 2 years. Go figure. They said K rate was the issue. It is, but we’ve always seen some guys w/ high SO rates stick. His arm, defense, and base speed. HR power.

channelclemente

Look at the time differential on nested posts. I can see this one fella crawling in and out of persona as he posts. It has got to be confusing.

OJ Samson

LOL at batting .250-300. Pretty wide range there.

Brownie

Wasn’t targeted at you. How anyone can comment on that incident without “facts” is presumptuous at best. Those same guys (not you) have made jokes at the expense of the holocaust etc. I think that I amongst others has a unique take on racism and of course there are people that have faced a lot more than myself. Note that I have not made any comments on the incident. BTW, “little” was a tad bit underhanded. I get that you are way more popular here than I and that your blog group bigger numbers

Ryan

please direct your comments to another site or to a wall.

OJ Samson

Don’t make idiotic comments and I may consider your request.

channelclemente

Yet his MiLB numbers looked pretty much like what his MLB numbers are converging to. That makes him both oddball and maybe an answer to that nagging question, what the matter with Fresno.

Matthew

Brownie and I love each other.

I’m brown, too, by the way.

OJ Samson

I think Panik has 0-30 HR power.

paul in p.v.

You laugh a lot. Doesn’t it get tedious?

OJ Samson

I’ve never met a Brown Matthew in my life.

Michael Scott

Many of us have seen many of the prospects on minor league TV.
To be kind, your eyes seem to need checking.
I don’t count Sickels or anyone else as my sole source- but I do respect the scouting reports from respected sources. Ryan relies on Sickels for an expert take, as well. Maybe you should try it and balance other reports with yours.

MLBSF

Ok my bad Matthew.
No wonder you hate it when a talk bout all the mediocre L’s on the Giants. smh

MLBSF

haha

Brownie

You might not have met one but my buddy’s name is Matthew Thomas. He’s an Indian Catholic

Matthew

You need to get out more.

Brownie

Haha, What would your wife say? Can’t help that I’m so lovable though

Brownie

Who would you want in his stead? The great Uggla?

MLBSF

I miss my It’s Getting Uggla posts.
I remember how I invented that saying and then all the pollyannas tried to steal it to be cool

smh

Matthew

Well, she would understand it to be platonic.

carmot

I’m curious where you (and others here) would rank Daniel Carbonell right now? For our system of course, not in MiLB overall prospect rankings.

Brownie

In all seriousness, we need a lot more laughter in this world

OJ Samson

LOL at Dingle Fingle, Private Investigator.

Brownie

I’m throwing you under the bus yet again. If you are a man, you’ll name all the pollyannas

Brownie

Serious response. I was hoping for a Matthew esque reply

Matthew

Grampa was from Sao Miguel…not quite traditional Latino.

Matthew

OK, my bad, Brownie!

How about I buy us a Brown- themed birdcage?

OJ Samson

You should go by Mateó. More street cred.

Matthew

1%’s can’t gain street cred….

OJ Samson

Aaron Hernadez would disagree

DrLefty

My friend’s husband is Indian and named Matthew. They live in Tucson and are both profs at U of A.

I’ve also met our Matthew in person.

Brownie

Where was my invitation?

Matthew

Awesome post. I do love you, Dude. “Little” was condescending by me, no doubt. Sorry.

Brownie

Or OJ Simpson

OJ Samson

All the Indians I know are named
-jit, -jeet, -deep,

Efrain

@MLBSF
Oh i’m around……

Efrain

@ryan – if Panik is our #1 prospect well that should tell you the state of the Giants farm system and the bleak recent drafts.

Brownie

No worries man. I’ll admit that I get petty at times. I don’t like hypocrisy. Some people here (not you) think that they are above reproach. I’m tired of it

Matthew

I’m pretty white-brown…don’t blow my cover! (Blue eyes do that to ya)

Brownie

Tan skin with blue eyes. I bet you got all the ladies

Matthew

This is getting fun….

Brownie

Are you from Yuba city?

Matthew

I plead the fifth….

DrLefty

Actually it’s a great story. I was on a Virgin America flight a year or two ago from SF to Fort Lauderdale. I was reading the blog and Matthew said he was…on a Virgin America flight from SF to Ft. Lauderdale! So we got to say hi.

Brownie

That’s a pretty awesome story. You guys talk baseball the entire way?

Efrain

“toolsy” and “role player” describes pretty much everyone the Gmen are developing these days, where takes us to the reason we are where we are. To many “4-5″ type arms in the system, relievers who have trouble finding the plate and slap hitters.

Brownie

You da pimp

DrLefty

I also met ClutchUp on a Cal Train on the way to a playoff game in 2012 and a former GE regular named Giant PITA at a Giants/Rockies game at Coors Field. It really is a small world.

Brownie

Social Media. Very nice

OJ Samson

LOL Giants go into KC and got run out of town 16-6. Oakland goes in and and plays them to a 16-16 tie.

DrLefty

The old-timers on the blog have heard this story, but after that Coors Field game, we went back to our hotel and went to the bar for a nightcap. We were sitting two feet away from Peyton Manning and Todd Helton (college football teammates).

We also started chatting with another geared-up Giants fan in the bar, and it turned out his first cousin works in my department at UCD. This guy was a 49ers season ticket holder and he gave us two tickets to a Niners game on the 50 yard line! Fun stuff.

Brownie

You lucky son of a ………

Brownie

And still loses 3 out of 4. They have a blowout and then can’t score any runs. they ain’t going far

OJ Samson

Why are you trying to make me look bad?

Matthew

When did baseball adopt the Stableford method of scoring?

DrLefty

I think the bigger story is KC is on a serious roll and has passed the Tigers in the AL Central–and they certainly gave the A’s something to think about this week.

KC, O’s, Brewers–most interesting stories this year so far. Angels, too, I guess.

Brownie

BTW, they scored 11 runs in one game and a combined 5 in 3. Puts the Giants loses in perspective, don’t they?

OJ Samson

I’m all about the run differential these days.

DrLefty

I know, right? It was the Buffalo game in 2012 and the Niners won something like 56-3.

Michael Scott

I think that you’re a little pessimistic about the state of the farm but there’s little doubt the Giants’ system is still not considered anything more than middle of the pack at best.

Brownie

Also, 2 of those runs came on an easy fly ball to CF today that the guy lost in the sun. By your logic, they only scored 3 runs in 3 games

DrLefty

Here’s a photo I took from our seats. I was lucky to be able to do anything from my phone. The reception at the Stick is awful.

DrLefty

I don’t know how you’ve missed this, but it’s fair to say that our Brownie does not admire the A’s.

Efrain

@livefreerdi:disqus how Lefty of you to call anything Dodgers luck. They made two good pickups for two guys who can contribute, plain and simple. When you are up in the standings a team can make transactions from a positive position.

OJ Samson

Bay Area guy who loves the Lakers but hates the A’s. SMH, I’ve never seen anything like it.

Efrain

@ojsamson:disqus
wholeheartedly agree!!! the front office and the pollyanas need to stop crying poverty while at the same time paying TL his ridiculous salary he was never, ever going to earn.

DrLefty

Kind of like a Giants fan who adores the Dodgers? smh

Efrain

yeah and he SHH a lot too, notice that?!?!?

Brownie

I was trying not to respond to his not so subtle yet predictable dig against the Giants by turning it loose on the AAAs

Brownie

Niiiiiiiccccceeeee Lefty

OJ Samson

Like Samari Mike said I want winners.

DrLefty

I was trying to respond to it by actually talking baseball. KC’s a great story right now. I’m bored with the A’s AND the Tigers.

DrLefty

Yeah, and how’d that work out for him?

OJ Samson

Parlayed that into a 10 million dollar contract. That’s more than I even make.

Efrain

“middle of the pack” is being very nice actually when you check how national publications rank the system. Always looks better with orange and black lenses but one has to be realistic.

Brownie

Samurai Mike? I was wondering who that was.

DrLefty

It’s even a skosh more than I make, too.

Mr. Sarcastic

I’m only rooting for the Tigers so that we can get some Kate Upton in the crowd moments…

Michael Scott

Comparing Hicks to Belt is may be the dumbest thing you’ve ever said and there’s a lot of competition.

Brownie

Her front end is something else to behold, her back end, not so much. Having said, I wouldn’t kick her out of bed for eating crackers

OJ Samson

I’ve had like 6 vegas Bombs

Brownie

What the hell you doing drinking on a school night?

Ryan

Carmot asked where Daniel Carbonell ranks among Giants prospects. Good question. They say the Cuban leagues a proximate to AA baseball, so maybe it’s no surprise that he is tearing it up in San Jose. He has 2 more hits tonight and is batting over .400 so far. He also swiped his 2nd bag. Maybe he’ll get the call up to AA and we can get a better read on him. As thin as the farm system is, maybe he is about the 10th best. Hard to say, but the Giants farm system needs a surprise to give the club a boost next year.

Efrain

you are an idiot for inciting this and really insenstive. First of all not everyone who wears red a great deal is in a gang. That would mean most of the Niner fans, not looking into color, have affiliations? That’s plain ignorant. Plus, when reading all accounts of the incident, even lose or suspected affiliation to anything should lead a person to get gunned down with their arms in the air.

Ryan

I am concerned for the A’s. Lowrie’s injury could be highly significant as are injuries to Crisp and Gentry.

OJ Samson

School night? I dropped out after college.

Ryan

Will she do the hula hoop or dance the cat daddy?

OJ Samson

Bouts to hit this strikeout

Michael Scott

What got this started was the absurd suggestion that it might not be a bad idea to bring him back. The guy’s canoe paddled away long ago. He’s currently drowning in Fresno.

paul in p.v.

Snorkel’s not PC – but that’s not gonna fly too far.

Brownie

Whatever that means

Brownie

I was kidding. So, do you live in or around Yuba City?

OJ Samson

I told you a couple of weeks ago.

OJ Samson

Too many Indians out there for me. Solano County.

Brownie

Really? That was said in jest. What’s not so PC about it? Even lefty liked that comment

Brownie

I’m old. I forget stuff or I was drunk

Brownie

Isn’t yuba city in solano county?

Brownie

Ah ok. What was your major at Davis?

Brownie

Oh yes. I forgot. I liked the symbols

Mr. Sarcastic

I have a nice story about meeting Matt Williams at Disneyland the day before a game at Dodger Stadium but it’s awaiting moderation for some reason…. :/

Brownie

Your preference?

Michael Scott

Why do you persist in acting like Gutierrez lets a lot of inherited runners score? In fact, you seem to not even want to look at what are very good numbers across the board. 3.12 ERA 1.019 WHIP
52 IP 45 H *8* BB 35 SO 20 of 26 inherited runners stranded, That’s a 23% IS, league average is 28%.
Bottom line on J.C. is as I said, most teams would die for those numbers out of the #7 pen guy.

OJ Samson

Paul prefers the bell end

DrLefty

I love baseball and I love Jerry Seinfeld, and this is awesome. Also, Keith Hernandez hasn’t been missing any meals.

Two more hits (so far) and a SB tonight, hitting over .420 for San Jose. Joe Ritzo was reporting quotes from the Little Giants’ manager, who’s very impressed with Carbonell.

DrLefty

Well, the Halos have had their bad news. Poor Tyler Skaggs. The curse of the Diamondbacks.

Michael Scott

Maybe they should get him up to AA now and if he hits there and fast track him right up the bigs in September.

Michael Scott

Pretty soon Brown is going to get passed by Brett Krill on the prospect list. Uh-oh. Krill was released? Well, there ya go…

Matthew

BOOOOOOM!

Rrrrrrrrrroasted.

Matthew

She looks like she’s eating more hot fudge sundaes than crackers. Anna Nicle Upton, just wait.

Matthew

Looks like Judge Pavlovic threw OJ Samson in the Blog Slammer…

Brownie

I wouldn’t doubt that whatsoever

Guest

He went to bed

winebaroness27

Still hoping the Giants sign Rusney Castillo

Brownie

I think you are right. Every one of his comments has been deleted.

Mr. Sarcastic

I pray my CalTrain pilgrimage to the yard tomorrow night brings good fortune to the Giants.

Michael Scott

He’ll slither back soon. I think he’s fixed his IP problem , though. Last time Alex got two trolls with one click.

MLBSF

The Giants are playing another god-awful opponent, so I think you have a good chance!

If they were playing the 60-60 Indians, you’d be in trouble since that’s a .500 team.

MLBSF

You didn’t do anything wrong

MLBSF

That’s crazy

Brownie

Be it so

Brownie

That guy is out of control but your name isn’t going to help your case

avwh

What a surprise, since Selig WAS an owner when he was initially “interim” commissioner.

Michael Scott

Nah, it was probably Brownie. You didn’t do anything to piss me off tonight.

Brownie

Dissension is frowned upon by the big 4. Don’t you get it?

Brownie

Where were you? Kate Upton, yea or nay?

Brownie

Did you see MS’s comment above? Trying to turn us against each other. Pretty transparent though

avwh

He does have a motion that looks like an injury waiting to happen, IMO. So I’m not surprised some of the scouts didn’t see him as a CY candidate.

Michael Scott

You are preaching to the choir, Sammie. Frankly I was very surprised that you forgot to take care of it until you got canned .An expert troll has every angle covered.

Vegas Giants Fan*

It’s the only way I can look at it. What has happened in the past is just that, the past. I like the mindset of the players after their players only meeting. Just get in and see what happens. It’s O.K. to rehash certain plays and to discuss lineups and whatever. That’s what the blog is for. For me it’s all about the next game and that’s all. Hopefully the boys will find a way to make it into the playoffs. After that anything can happen. And wouldn’t it be so sweet to kick the Bums butt out of the playoffs. An old man (but little kid at heart) can dream. I loved your response. Perfect!!

Go Giants. One Game At A Time!

Vegas Giants Fan*

I forgot about the 2011 Cardinals. Perfect example for not giving up. Try to remind everyone every chance you get.

Vamos Gigantes!! 😉

Leo the Lip

Bullet train express?

The Oracle

Pretty…pretty…pretty…pretty…good.

Leo the Lip

!!!

Leo the Lip

New car? I’vw

Mr. Sarcastic

Yup

Leo the Lip

Who?

Leo the Lip

Len Sakata?

Brownie

You can actually be civil to leo?

Michael Scott

Sammy, Sammy,Sammy, Sammy.. I have absolutely zero problem with you thinking that Alex does what I tell him to do, But it had to be one of your pals tonight. Like I said, probably Brownie. I think
he wants you out of the way, if you follow…

Leo the Lip

Hey I resemble that

The Oracle

Every now and then I go back and watch these. Bonds hit some incredible shots.

I do what you say? Man … nice, mature conversation you guys have got going on here.

Michael Scott

That’s what Sam thinks,.

Vegas Giants Fan*

Very interesting article. Make sense to me.

I lived in St. Louis for 3 years in the mid 90’s. (94-96) I could talk for hours on what’s going on there currently. I will say that the people I met there were the nicest people I’ve encountered outside of where I grew up. (Santa Cruz) What’s happening there makes me very sad.

Michael Scott

Hmmmmm, seems Sam went away.

Walter Guest

Here’s San Francisco’s greatest singing group. Watched them many times at the original Hungry I.

There are fewer third basemen in the HOF than any other position. Good one’s are hard to come by. (not saying Pablo is a HOF quality player) It will be a tough decision for the Giants to make. We’ll see what happens. In the meantime how about the Giants making a run for one of the two Wild Card spots.

Good post.

Go Giants.

Walter Guest

So I got on this baseball team in San Fransisco when I got out of the Air Force. I didn’t know anyone except the left fielder who had recommended me. I told the manager I played shortstop. Just like that, no tryout or nothin’, he put me in at short in the first game.

On the first play a ball is hit to the left of the third baseman. He dives but can’t get to it. I move over in the hole and get it easily. It could have been five feet farther and I still would have gotten it. I even had time to set my feet before the ball got to me. I throw the runner out by a lot. A big cheer goes up. It’s from my team! What the hell is that about, I wonder. Then I figured it out. The guy I’m replacing at short must have been a real putz.

I hate to see a shortstop take his time on a play to make it close at first. There’s no time for error when he does that. When I played I tried to throw the runner out by as big a margin as I could. I wanted to see them give up when they hit a ball to me, knowing that they’d be out by 20 feet or more.

I wasn’t a natural athlete but I could mimic guys who were. The guy who influenced me most was Leo Righetti who played short for the San Francisco Seals. I copied the way he moved in the field. One guy said to me, “You look like Marty Marion out there.” I should have said, “No, no. Leo Righetti. It’s Leo Righetti I’m copying.”

But I didn’t say it.

Doughnut

Yes, I hope so too. Some real head scratching decisions being made by an overarmed police force.

I used to stay up late (two time zones away from west coast games) to fit in one more AB by Barry: no matter if the Giants were behind, or whatever else was going on in the game, you didn’t want to miss what that guy might do. Not my favorite player, because of stuff other than his talents inside the white lines, but man o man he could hit.

Leo the Lip

Dave’s Father a baseball Icon. Thanks for sharing Walter, as always!
He helped a lot of kids.

Leo the Lip

Happy Bumgarner Orange Friday Night.

DrLefty

Looks like I missed some stuff after I went to bed last night.

610nm

Amen. Two off days at home in the same week is probably great for the players, but I’m jonesing for a ball game…

Brownie

TRK got banned twice last night. He wanted it too. Alex was imo a lil miffed last night.

Ryan

Yay, Walter stories are some of the best! Thanks.

BALDHEADSLIK1

Hello Leo hv a great day! Enjoy the cup a joe this AM

BALDHEADSLIK1

Same here

Brownie

Nothing of note baldy

BALDHEADSLIK1

I beg to differ

Brownie

Alright…

Ryan

Just some notes…

Giants are 5th from the bottom for wOBA in MLB. They are sixth from the top in ERA. They are right smack in the middle in their overall defensive rating as determined by fangraphs “def”.

See that middle of the lineup? If they can’t get it done, the Giants are done. Extra bases and RBI’s are where the money lies. No more punch and judy.

What’s the prognosis here? 40/60 the Giants get a Wild Card? Maybe some outside chance they win the division? So flip a coin for the post season.

Dave Amoroso

YOU FORGOT ME…HAH…I PLAYED WITH FREGOSI….THE BEST ATH;ETE THE SCHOOL HAS EVER HAD….

carmot

Pence third? Sure, why not give it a whirl. I’ve said this before, I think the only two seasons Bochy tried batting a pitcher 8th, were in 2010 and 2012. Just sayin’, there might be some magic in that. Your lineup idea might make some sense in my eyes… Not to throw shade on it/you, but do we really expect Bochy to get that innovative?

I’ll stick by my notion we grab the 2nd Wild Card. But, like I’ve said… I think it will all be clear by the time we fly to Washington on 8/22.

ONE WEEK. Giants, get crackin’.

carmot

Thanks for your take, Ryan. 10th-ish, huh. Okay. We know he’s motivated to get up SF, his salary increases from it. Fast would be better than slow, and we KNOW he’s speedy. Glad we signed him. Cheers.

DrLefty

I guess we can go back to calling him “Sam,” since he’s not TRK anymore. He was Sam (or Sam Hates Belt) for a couple years.

DrLefty

I was looking at the ERA stuff the other day, too. Seventh in MLB is pretty good, but if you look more closely, a lot of that’s driven by the bullpen (3rd in MLB) vs. the starters (14th in MLB).

Hudson and Vogey are doing their jobs, and Peavy is what he is. But it would help if Bum started pitching well at home and Lincecum–well, I don’t know what to say about him.

carmot

Wow, what the fleck did this place turn into last night? I go away for a shoot, come back and it looks like… Well… Alright. I’ll take back what I said last night about not much regulation here on this blog. Maybe there is a little bit. Just a little.

winebaroness27

Like the line up FR…
Let Panik hit 2nd for a while…with Pence doing a little more work in the 3 hole..

Giants get the wild card…

winebaroness27

I used to wonder why the Giants carried Adrianza at the expense of bench depth.

Now I think it’s more of a sign that the giants are not so confident in crawford…
He seems to have regressed both offensively and defensively…

and don’t want to pay him if the numbers in arbitration are too high.

carmot

So, I did my end of season projections last Saturday, 8/9, prior to the day’s games played. I had PHI w/ the lowest win percentage in all of MLB down the stretch at .348 (16-30). They’ve gone 1-4 since then. I might’ve projected them too optimistically.

It will be interesting to see if any discord has crept into their play. Like Dom Brown and Papelbon wanting out. Some guys hanging out and wanting to finish their careers there. The stuff about Philly phans turning on Howard. The loss of Lee. It seems leadership isn’t coming from up above, are their key players still leaders? Or have they all ‘checked out’ for the season already? Get greedy, grab all three.

Sorry Tommy Joseph is having a rough go. Out for the season with wrist surgery.

carmot

42 games remaining? 23-19 isn’t unrealistic. Not at all IMO.

Does 86 wins grab the 2nd Wild Card? It still might…

winebaroness27

good !!
Sorry but it gets really old reading comments that are only written to irritate and “shock” ..Boring….!!..jeez get a life…
I just want to chat about the giants …is that too much to ask??

Ryan

Somehow that’s the case in spite of starters with a greater proportion of the innings and greater weight towards the overall average.

Matthew

Happy Sonora Weekend With Sarcastic Overtones at AT&T!

Michael Scott

I said “at best”. Some do rank them middle of the pack mostly to due to a wealth of pitching prospects, 4-5 type arms or not. Depth is significant there.

Matthew

…and started out with the real name of Steven Allen Mitchell, if I remember correctly. Really happy to see Judge Pavlovic go all Judy on him.

carmot

“Is that too much to ask?”
Not to me, it’s not. Please keep on keeping on. I recognize you don’t get yourself involved in the peripheral stuff here. I think we can use more like yourself. Cheers.

Ryan

You’re not in Chicago by any chance? I know you’re not, but the guy I really want to see some day is playing in Evanston, Illinois tonight…

Ronnie Earl !

He never comes west.

Michael Scott

*There really wasn’t nearly as much crap last night than is usual when “Sam” gets himself canned. Don’t think that Alex appreciates Sammy telling folks that I tell him (Alex) what to do. All of the deleted comments are those from “OJ AKA Sam AKA….”.Properly so.

Ryan

Did MLBsf get deleted too? We know Sam is ketchup. If MLB’s posts were also deleted, indicating same IP address (as you know), then we have also unmasked that character as one of Sam’s (plenty of suspicion to begin with).

Ryan

strike that. just did a quick check, it’s still down there.

Matthew

Home now, Chicago right after the Giants leave! ( dang)… And I may be able to catch Robben at the State next Friday night….

I’ve actually kept my eyes open for Robbie when I’ve been back there and the stars have yet to align

Matthew

By his actions, he tends to do the following:

SamDigsHisOwnGrave

Leo the Lip

“It” = appropriate

Ryan

if you do make plans to catch Robbie, let me know, I may get a wild hair.

Leo the Lip

Utley’s wishes to stay are noble. Maybe Utley becomes the Skipper when Ryne becomes skipper of the Cubs.
(CC broke that Sandberg story)

Bapah

Any ideas for next week? I’ll be there Tue-Wed- Thu. Unfortunately 50% chance of rain (high humidity) and temp in high 70’s to 80s. for three days. Need something to do other than eat pizza when not at ballgame.

Leo the Lip

Hope the shoot went well!

Leo the Lip

Not too much to ask. And it left dozens of people here responding to them (but then their responses were to “he gone”)

Ryan

This is soulful, in times when the soul is thirsty. A gift, if you have the time, enjoy.

Thanks Leo, I appreciate the kind words. Yeah, I think it went alright. Last time I shot with these performers… Well, here’s one of my images.

I’ve been fortunate to work with and hang out with one of the finest fire photographers, Benjamin Von Wong, when he visited SF for the first time. He’s back in town next week. Using the NASA Ames wind tunnel for a shoot. I’ve been trying to get him hooked up w/ flickr to do an AMA (Ask Me Anything) chat. But flickr is slacking off. Oh well.

Please forgive me, I usually try to stick to Giants topics here on GE.

Do you think Bochy will plug Duffy in at SS more like he did during the KC series or go with his vet?

JStreet

With six more against LA, it’s to early to be to sure of any apparent certainty, certainly.

Remember when Jimmy Davenport was manager? (I know, you’d like to forget)
He would use the word “certainly” as many as 3 or 4 times in one sentence.

Matthew

Nice Friday morning treat…

JStreet

Say he has 2 no hitters in less than a year. Go ahead, just say it – it will make you feel good again.

Ryan

Treats from the teat of great soulfulness.

Matthew

If it ain’t one Sam, it’s another….

Matthew

Absolutely will!

Michael Scott

He’ll be back.Probably before game time.

Nate’sFanMom

How about starting a big winning streak?

JStreet

“One and one is two
Six and two is eight
Come on baby, don’t you make me late.
Hidey hey, baby don’t you wanna go.
Back to that same old place,
Sweet home Chicago.”

Ryan

With Luther Allison back and on stage? You betcha!

Ryan

IF…

Belt wasn’t having a lost season. If Pagan wasn’t salsa dancing on the DL another season. If Matt Cain was on top of his game and on top of the mound. If Marco Scutaro could at least be a part time player, bench option. If Buster Posey was more MVP than 3rd or so among NL catchers…

…the Giants would be the favorites in the National League.

JStreet

Yeah, I happened to see their big inning against the As, coming back from 3-1 down in the eighth, and just getting hit after hit. Joyous daytime hometown baseball.

channelclemente

I’m slowly getting to the need for an electrodes and high voltage resolution of Lincecum’s ‘problem’.

carmot

Huh. Utley as Field Mgr. I could see it. Dang, they’d be a tough bunch under his stewardship. I remember watching him strikeout once at AT&T, run down the baseline to 1B, Posey picking up the blocked pitch from the dirt, and Utley trying to get in the path of the throw… Based on where Belt had his glove raised.

He does a lot of things like that. Not many players do things like that.

Didn’t Pence go on a tear against Philly? Maybe he can repeat that feat. I wonder, if one Giants player could get on one of those hot streaks, like hitting safely in 15 consecutive games and 21 hits. Who would you expect it to be?

And if they could keep their head all the while the blog loses theirs, they’re a better man my friend.

JStreet

Hunter Pence drives across the Bay Bridge on his day off so he can pay the toll for the car behind him.

JStreet

Seriously, Buster Posey.

JStreet

Nice to see things more congenial and informative around here today. We feel a little more Together, Giant.
I will check back in around game time, good luck.

Mr. Sarcastic

I can already taste the Crazy Crab sandwich ….

Time for a good home outing for Bumgarner.

thefarnz

That would be the best Hunter Pence sign yet.

carmot

Hunter Pence crushes kale, with gentleness.

Michael Scott

*Minor League Report- a few guys did good, some not so much
* Hell hath no fury than what would descend upon the Earth if Rule 7.13 decided a playoff game
*Prospect watch: Crick is #1, Beede is #5. There is no 2,3, or 4 . And no, they weren’t traded away.
* Don’t go to WAR with Nick Swisher- worst player in the bigs among qualifiers
* Has Marco Estrada shut us out yet? Yeah, the worst starting pitcher.
*Jon Lester says the happiness of his family is more important than signing for the most money. Being all for happy families-take the most money, Jon.
* Lacking a hit tool this morning I had to use the heel of my slipper.
*MLB.TV Premium $24.99 for the rest of the season. Watch all the Astros games right through to the bitter end.

carmot

Sure could use it. We’ve seen it from our MVPosey before, for sure.

Matthew

Hmmm, sounds like me.

Mr. Sarcastic

This sign from Pete Rose was pretty cool too:

Matthew

Dang, I’m gonna miss you. I was trying like crazy to get there for the series, but have to go the following week. I hope you get to watch the whole series. Ryan and it will check some blues schedules for you….

I tend to agree with Footy that Panik is our #1 “prospect,” but when do you cease being a prospect after you actually make it to the show? I was shocked to see that Panik’s not even in the top 20 on the MLB.com prospect list, even though Duffy now is (and he should be) and Gary Brown still is (and he shouldn’t be). Seriously? A college catcher drafted 5 min. ago (Aramis Garcia) and a young 3B who washed out in Augusta and is struggling at Salem-Keizer (Ryder Jones) are in the top 20, but not the guy who’s currently the starting 2B for the Giants? Who makes these lists, anyway?

carmot

Hunter Pence never takes a day off from work.

carmot

You know, I’ve actually done that more than a few times. Last time I tried, the toll booth worker told me they don’t allow it any longer. ?

channelclemente

Hunter Pence puts a dime in his penny loafers.

channelclemente

I’d use the ‘Belt criteria’, when you show you can adapt and sustain your offensive and defensive skills over time.

Holy cow, the Rockies have poured a lot of money down the drain on Tulo and CarGo. Not that they’re not terrific when they ARE healthy, but wow–their average games played per year are just awful.

DrLefty

If Duffy (who is also on the big league roster) is still a prospect, I’d say Panik is, too. The weird thing is he’s not some schmoe. He was their first-round pick, just like Brown, Arroyo, and Stratton, all of whom ARE still in the top 20 (and Crick and Beede, of course). I know it doesn’t matter much–Panik would rather be at AT & T Park starting for the Giants than on the top-20 prospect list–it just makes me wonder how much attention one should pay to those lists.

I agree, particularly since they remake them almost monthly. One begins to wonder if it’s just not a scam, like those weekly power ratings.

carmot

I agree Panik is our #1, too. I believe “prospect” status is until 125 MLB at-bats, Panik isn’t far off from losing that distinction (currently at 104 AB?). I can’t recall for pitching prospects if it’s games appeared in or innings pitched. I think it’s IP.

Yeah, I think draft round is a big deal in most rankings. I tend to believe MiLB performance can be a better gauge. Some collegiate divisions don’t have as much talent (or have more) and whatnot. Most minor leaguers are the top talents, right?

I like most of the prospect websites for rankings, more than MLB Prospect Watch. The others tend to offer more ‘justification’ for their rankings, some good insights to be gleaned. But things like high SO rates can leave a guy off altogether. Yet, a fantastic MiLB season 2 years ago can keep a guy on? Yeah, we’re in agreement, what gives?

DrLefty

The irony is that Billy made the trade so that his rotation could outgun the Tigers’. But–even without Dombrowski one-upping Billy at the last second with Price–without Cespedes, can they hit enough off the Tigers’ rotation? (Or the Royals’, for that matter?)

OMT

Ryu is hurt now.

carmot

I really appreciate the factors and scouting of these sites. But the ‘team rankings’ I don’t understand. Which ranks higher: a team with six to eight pitchers who could be great #3 or #4 starting pitchers and serviceable MLB guys like Adrianza. Or a team that has two guys like who *could be* Gray and Wacha but heaps of nothing else?

channelclemente

IMHO, Beane may have just cost himself a pennant. KC just kicked their behinds this week, taking 3/4. He’s down over a run per game, and the innings he’s throwing Samardzija are grinding him up. If you look at Hamel, the loss in offense with Cespedes leaving explains some of his ineffectiveness as well, I believe. Now with Lowrey and Gentry down, they really are in a pickle.

Mr. Sarcastic

“The question next year, just like the question this year, wasn’t if Troy Tulowitzki was going to get injured again; it’s when.”

Wow, just Wow. He was touch and go earlier this season and missed a start or two.

carmot

Is playing 82 games at altitude a factor in long-term injury risk? Fowler had knee problems late last year, right? Tulowizki never seems to play over 110 games. CarGo is about the same. I just wonder.

Max

He claims it was to hold off the Angels, who are just 2 back. The irony is they lose the div and get knocked off in a WC game.

Eleuthero

The A’s are first in the AL in runs scored but only tenth in team BA. This shows that they needed every viable bat to achieve their results. This is a “whole is greater than the sum of the parts” team. They broke up that whole by trading Cespedes and it’s looking like an unwise move right now.

channelclemente

As hard as that infield gets, you do wonder if the outfield is as well. I remember when Andre Dawson came to the Cubs from Montreal in ’88, they estimated at Northwestern Med. Ctr. (?) playing on that turf in Montreal cut maybe 4 years of his career.

Croix de Candlestick

I liked to count the number of “You know”s in a Jack Clark interview 😛

channelclemente

This would be the perfect setting to look at that age old synergy issue in a somewhat controlled way.

Me too, but before that paper I linked on ‘contagious hitting’, everyone said the numbers say the opposite. Also the sample number is very similar before and after. Calling Reverend Bayes, is Reverend Bayes in the house.

Michael Scott

Rating the top 10 prospects by position, Susac is 10th among the catchers. Unless I missed someone, he is the only Giants’ prospect in the top 10 at his position. That’s the MLB.com rankings.
I’m only the messenger, it’s not my fault, shoot Jimmy..( think Rockford Files)
*The best thing about Angel was that even though he was a funny guy, they let him be a thoroughly rotten, back stabbing low life.

Eleuthero

This’ll be Samardzija’s 2nd straight 200+ inning year. His KO power is already noticeably down since acquisition with 40 K in 56 innings. Over his career he’s just about dead-on one K per inning. He was there earlier in the year so your “grind down” theory could hold water.

I’m confused, you mean our Giants Sandy Rosario? I still like him and am rooting for his success.

The bums have a few interesting names that may be up in Sept: Johnny Monell and two Cubans: Alexander Guerrero & Arruebarrena. They also drafted Ryan’s younger brother, right? Alex Verdugo. I wouldn’t be surprised if Joc Pederson somehow gets the call, even with the overstuffed outfield situation. YMMV.

Eleuthero

I remember Tim McCarver saying that Steve Carlton and Bob Gibson didn’t need trick pitches and didn’t use them. The ubiquity of the change-up seems like a relatively new phenomenon, especially its frequency of use. The frequency could cause batters to sit on the change-up which might get you blown away by the fastball but you’d hit a lot more HRs.

DrLefty

I have a poster in my office of Babe Ruth with that great quote from Bart Giamatti (“It breaks your heart…it is designed to break your heart…”) So Mr. Giamatti lives forever in my poster. And I still think Pete Rose killed him.

Eleuthero

I’m a skeptic of the forkball. Anything that causes the chronic tightening of the forearm muscles that the forkball creates must be wearing of that muscle group in the long run.

DrLefty

Am I supposed to feel sorry for them? The only names on that list who they were really counting on are Hanley, to a lesser extent Beckett, and maybe Withrow.

We have our #2 starter–that would be Greinke in their scheme–done for the season, our 1B has missed more than half the games so far, 2B has been a mess until recently, and our CF was out for six weeks. Oh, and our best reliever missed a month.

Well, Belt will be back soon and Pagan already is. To get to the playoffs won’t take greatness this year and once you’re in, all you need is a streak.

DrLefty

And if we’re going down to the minor leagues, our best outfield prospect (Mac Williamson) and our best reliever prospect (Derek Law)–out with Tommy John, and the prized catcher of all the stud young arms in Richmond (Jeff Arnold) has missed the whole season.

Eleuthero

Muchos gracias, Senor.

DrLefty

Doesn’t sound that serious, though. Maybe he misses one start?

carmot

Wow Lefty. Sorry. I didn’t mean to stir anything up. No, I don’t feel sorry for them, don’t expect any others to either. Injuries area part of what happens. I also don’t find injuries to be a fall back for our poor record. Every team has to deal with injuries. Rangers have it toughest, with them, I can’t imagine any team, ever, could sustain the hits they’ve taken and get through it.

channelclemente

Besides being one of the best items I ever read, this piece about Tom Seaver has an old anecdote about his first changeup. He threw only FBs with the Mets, I think. This is a wonderful story about Seaver and his developing Alzheimers.

Kershaw seems to believe the laws of the universe don’t apply to him. He throws 6-7 pitches now, if you count two entirely different curveballs and sliders. Darvish is the only other guy who can command that many pitches.

carmot

Alright, like I’ve already said… Sorry. I seemed to touch some sort of nerve with you.

Ryan

Mountain Landis sets the bar low. Racist, arrogant…

But a man of his time.

Ryan

The Pete Rose situation killed him. His decision to ban Rose from baseball stopped his heart.

Michael Scott

Multiple Choice: what Giant would be most likely to blow up a catcher?
1. Pablo
2. Pence
3. Morse
4.Other ( specify )

Ryan

Angel Pagan

Mr. Sarcastic

Lincecum… oh wait, you mean baserunning.

channelclemente

Panik. Have you seen his game of tommyknockers sliding into second base.

channelclemente

Great story about what may well turn out to be the pre tournament pick for the LL WS.

No, no nerve, and no apology needed, either. And I don’t really think the Giants have much to cry about when you look at the losses sustained by the Padres, Rox, and Snakes this year. The Dodgers’ losses, though, have not really been to key personnel (except Hanley)–and it’s harder to feel sorry for them when they can just buy something new to replace whatever breaks.

channelclemente

With Lefty, you can expierence inadvertent ‘rant burn’ from time to time. It’ll just help your tan.

HaakAway

If it is a meaningful run … Pence since he cannot play any other way.

carmot

You’ve reminded me… Looking at the 2015 MLB Draft. I want us to get Skye Bolt. Just because. I don’t really know anything about him. Just his name.

Anybody want a Funkhouser? Ben Johnson? How about Nick Kingham’s brother, his name is Nolan and he’s a pitcher.

channelclemente

I don’t entertain those thoughts until November. Not enough gray matter to contain the details.

MadBum needs to pitch like an ace today plain and simple. He is as good of a young pitcher as there is in the NL but the inconsistency this year has been a bit frustrating. No more pitching like a 5 ERA pitcher at home, no more early runs allowed. Shut down this old decrepit Phillies team and set the tone for the series.

channelclemente

It’s early, somewhere, isn’t it.

carmot

Yes please. Just saw the over/under line for the game is 6 runs.

Bum. Hamels. Duh, I take the under. Anybody?

PerSpeier35

Wow, had a rare chance during lunch break today to catch up on the latest post and have to admit it’s odd when there are no doofuses present. Very nice.

I agree with Ryan, they should have Panik batting second and get Pence in to a better RBI position, especially with the current middle of the order not being terribly productive. If he insists on keeping Pence high in the order and Panik is down I’d rather see Crawford batting ahead of him instead of in the eight hole. He’s been wretched lately but he has a lot more pop than Panik, would rather see him get better pitches and get him going. Panik can avoid all the K’s and be alright batting eighth.

Michael Scott

I would rarely say that a sweep is a “must” but this weekend is pretty close.

Michael Scott

Panik to the two has been a staple LU “suggestion” for quite awhile. He’s been just fine where he is and if the two is good enough for Trout it’s good enough for Pence. And production is not just about RBIs. Folks just get caught up with thinking that the old model of the 2 hitter is the best model. Hunter has struggled lately but he’s one of our 2 or 3 best hitters and one of the best hitters should be in the 2.
IMO.

Where ever Pence bats I’m sure Bochy is smart enough to keep him ahead of the base clogging trio currently in the middle of the L/U. They used to bat Pence fifth but with his speed he has to be ahead of Buster, Sandoval, and Morse.

channelclemente

What’s his FIP and xFIP? Any idea?

E-B

hey all, just stopping by…

i think Footy’s l/u will be what we see today.

rootin for our boys, and Eleu, got my bets on your prediction from a couple days go!

E-B

nice job!

carmot

No idea, haven’t looked. I just compiled these stats myself, compelled after Conner’s article after Heston’s start facing off against Taijuan Walker. He’s only allowed 2 SB. There was one unearned run in that last start vs. Tacoma as well.

AAA isn’t exactly where our players are. Haven’t Tidrow, Evans, Turner, and Sabean all said AA is the proving ground? AAA is more like a holding pattern IMO. Or worse.

carmot

MLB Stat of the Day: there have been 46 1-0 games this season.

My Stat of the Day: Giants have played 120 games this season.

channelclemente

The young ‘lady’ pitching for the Chicago LL team just qualified for the LLWS with her team by pitching a 2 hit shutout.

channelclemente

There is a lot of insight, IMO, to be gleaned from the difference between ERA and the Fielding Independent stats. Especially with these small N’s.

http://www.jeff-bunnell.com jeffbunnell

No one ever brings up the 76 win team from 2013, when trying to figure out the WHY of this team.
Very little changed between 2013 and 2014, Marco was hurt, Marco is still hurt, Pagan was on the DL for a long period, ditto for 2014. Starting pitching wasn’t very good, and it’s still not good. Batters were in prolonged slumps, and Buster wasn’t producing like he was in 2012….sound familiar?
Anything over 76 wins this year will be an improvement. This is not your 2012 World Series Champion team any more.

Efrain

I just laugh you compared our #2 to their #2, like it’s some type of even steven……

Michael Scott

Before his comments were deleted “sam” said he had fixed the IP problem.

Efrain

Because Panik may have some skills and intangibles but A) he was not highly rated by other teams coming out of college, at least not as high as the Giants drafter him and B) he is not as physically gifted as you would like to see at the position that is why. I’m sure the scouts and professional talent evaluators out there have that over you, plus much more background info than your simple “I’m a fan” outlook.

carmot

Sure, I don’t disagree. Feel free to link if you know where I can find it. Or, I’d welcome you to do the inputs and share it with us. I will even thank you for doing so.

I was simply sharing something I put together out of interest. I compiled these stats myself. I wouldn’t know how to input xFIP or FIP for a 5 game stretch. I can do WHIP and GB%. If I felt like it, I could do SLG or OPS too. I didn’t.

carmot

Thanks E-B, appreciate it.

Michael Scott

Bum 8th, Blanco 9 ?

channelclemente

I haven’t a clue where to look, Mike might. I see them from time to time, but maybe someone calculates them on a case by case basis. It’s an almost empiracl creation of TangoTiger.

HR (for the pitcher in question) is replaced by league average to give the xStat, as I recall.

DrLefty

Except that it changed a lot for the first 62 games…that’s what’s puzzling. They were so much better than they were last year–or than they have been since.

Overall, the starting pitching is better, if only because Hudson is such a huge upgrade over Zito, and Vogelsong is so much better than he was last year. And the bullpen is substantially better. It was pretty awful last year–Affeldt had a bad/injured year, Casilla had knee surgery, Kontos was bad, Mijares was bad…

Kramerica

I agree and I think one of the most overlooked factors is that clearly a team is going to be much better when its catcher takes the NL batting crown while hitting 25+ HRs and driving in well over 100 runs. When that production all of a sudden becomes much more mediocre the team all of a sudden isn’t nearly as good…and that is not a coincidence. I thought at the time 2012 would be Posey’s career year but I was hoping he’d still produce numbers in that vicinity, not fall incredibly short of those numbers going on two years. We all knew Kent’s career year was 2000 but he still produced tremendous numbers around that career year. Hopefully Posey’s will be a bit more robust once he’s know longer behind the plate…and hopefully even sooner than that.

winebaroness27

E. —- all of the above

DrLefty

I’ve never found xFIP for minor leaguers. His FIP for the whole season is 4.61. I don’t know what it is for the last five starts that Carmot described.

channelclemente

Two things set this year apart, Morse..and Posey at firstbase. IMO, right medicine, just not enough of it.

DrLefty

Heston is really having a bounce-back year after going from 40-man to “DFA to make room for Jeff Francoeur” last year. If they have an emergency, he might be the first one in line. Kickham’s been shaky lately.

channelclemente

It’s fun to track along with ERA. You get a real sense, I think, in how well a guy pitched, exclusive of team contribution. The FIP, xFIP comparison tells you to a certain degree if HR rate is a player. It was, in retrospect, the first clue Cain, as a high ball pitcher, was broken.

BTW, the lack of xFIP is probably because of the lack of a reliable HR average across various leagues and parks in MiLB.

DrLefty

No, Cain this year is no comparison to Greinke, but as to his importance to the Giants’ rotation–well, he IS (or was) the #2 starter. So in that sense, losing Cain is as costly to the Giants as losing Greinke would be to the Dodgers.

Over their careers, though, Cain compares quite well to Greinke. Their innings pitched are almost identical, and Cain’s ERA and WHIP are better.

paul in p.v.

We were lucky to not lose him at that time.

carmot

Yes. IIRC, somewhere I’d read Heston has seen an uptick in FB velocity, maybe sitting more around 91 mph this season? So many minor league pitcher scouting reports recite the same things, but velo is a hard stat to find.

As per earlier conversation re: prospect rankings. It’s tough on Kickham that (obviously) his MLB stuggles count strongly against his ranking, he’s been doing really well this season. Heston is off any lists?

I hope we can see Heston. I’ve followed him for a few years. Of course, I wanted to see Justin Fitzgerald get a shot before him. Peny, Moscoso, Gaudin, Petit, Peavy. *sigh* Hope they keep hanging tough, hope the time will come. And they can shine. Heston, at least. Cheers.

channelclemente

Just to make the point, look at Cain’s FIP comparison to Greinke. It’s a remarkable difference. Particularly since Greinke purposefully changed his pitch selection and sequencing to minimize his FIP, not ERA.

Kickham has had a better year overall (than last year, I mean, not than Heston), but his last two starts have been pretty awful. Didn’t make it out of the fifth inning, 8 R and 4 R, respectively. 6 H and 5 BB in 4.2 innings last night. Not good.

carmot

LOL @ LAD. Justin Germano. From 2012-2014: 12 GS, 15 G.

Combined totals: 77.0 IP, 6.66 ERA, 1.610 WHIP, 24 BB/56 SO.

Peter Johnson

The Lineup is the same as it was the last 2 games vs Lefthanders .

carmot

Yeah, thanks. I’m agreeing w/ VGF. He might be a good bullpen convert. Worked nicely w/ Affeldt and many others eventually find the same path.

carmot

If we only get five hits off Hamels, they all had better be in the same inning.

No one except me, you mean. Agreed, this team has a losing record since the 2012 Series. Not much should be expected to change unless they change players or these players change their approach.

pacman68

Posey needs to be at first base every night and Susac behind the plate till Belt comes back.

livefreerdi

They hit homeruns. That was a fluke and was clearly going to end. Problem was, they starting thinking they were a power team and changed their approach in other areas for the worse. As Alex said … NO ONE runs or does anything to put pressure on a defense, even though it should be obvious they have to try to make things happen.

Michael Scott

I don’t sweat his line ups.

Ryan

Your sweat glands are broken.

Ryan

2-1 or shine up the golf clubs.

Michael Scott

You sure boogied from the Splash when they made postseason in 2010. Where did you go?

carmot

Does PHI really have FOUR LHRP on their 25-man? Bastardo, Diekman, Hollands, and Jimenez. That seems a bit towards overkill, huh? Lucky for us Ishi is out of options and can be our LHB off the bench.

I think the Cubbies are sending two LH SP out against us. Maybe this is Ishi’s last series? Regardless of whether Belt returns?

Ryan

No wonder the Giants looked they were going to lose 2 to the White Sox. Chris Sale has the 5th highest pitcher WAR in MLB and Jose Quintana is 10th. Our big ace, Madison Bumgarner comes in at 27th.

Tonight should be great matchup of two of the best lefties in the game with Bumgarner facing off with Hamels (18th). May the better lefty win.

Peter Johnson

The only Giant hitter that had 2 hits in Hamels last start vs Giants was Blanco, and Bochy does not have him in Lineup, Bochy makes me scratch my head so much it is not funny.

Peter Johnson

May the Giants win, please go follow the A’s!

Ryan

what’s up Twitter Warrior?

carmot

Yes, I noted his decision of Morse over Blanco v. Sale, too. And I am noting that Panik is starting basically every game: Hamels, Sale, Duffy, and other tough lefties not excluded.

I figure it’s not long until Panik is up to #2. Tea leaves might be concurring w/ my assessment that Blanco prices himself out for 2015? Dunno. I *always* figure wrong when figuring Bochy lineups. I think it goes way back, even before O Cab over Crawford. lol.

carmot

I just want Hamels to fall in love w/ our city and our fans. Get on the phone w/ his agent. Demand RAJ trades him to us this winter. Yeah, sure. While I’m at it, I’d like Michael Brantley, with Andrew Aplin and Emilio Bonifacio for our bench, and Brandon Morrow for our long man. LOL.

Peter Johnson

What is up is I am a life time Giants fan, and this is a Giants blog , but you seem like a MLB fan , but not much of a Giants fan I have noticed .

DrLefty

Yes, I remember even last year Kickham would have the one stellar inning and then BOOM. And I mean “BOOM” literally.

2holehitting

Panik needs to go to the 2 hole now. They guy is hitting 374 over his past 9 games with a 412 OBP. You need that at the top of the order.

.He has hit in 7 of the 9 games. He has been on base with a hit or a walk in 8 of 9 games. The only game he was not on base he had 1 at bat.

You need that productivity in the 2 hole not the 7 spot

carmot

You bring up a good point. I recall my nervousness about that. Won’t he be Rule 5 eligible next year? I think so. Uh-oh. Something has got to give. Why get Peavy if Heston needs a test before slotting into Vogey’s slot for 2015?

Doesn’t feel like he’s in the plans. Dunno. YMMV.

Ryan

Think Bumgarner can outpitch Hamels? I think he’s going to have to. If he can’t, Giants seem to be in a lot of trouble.

Ryan

Dream on, Aerosmith.

Ryan

2 hole !!!

2holehitting

I have mentioned the results could be expected since they have supplied the same players with the exception of Left and the undadressed second.I stated at the start of the year based on track records, Morse would be a slight net increase in runs scored but a negative on runs allowed and would have a negligeable impact over Blanco.

You can not run the same team out as last year and expect a different result.

I also suggested they could be better with the addition of Hudson over Zito and if Cain returned to 2012 form not 2013 form and Timmy improved to a 4 ERA(Doubtful) and Pagan was healthy all year.

Those items could change the 4.1 runs allowed and 3.8 runs scored to a 4.1 runs scored to 3.8 allowed and flip from 10 under to 10 over.

note estimated runs off the top of my head, not what I calculated in my post.

carmot

Yeah. I set myself up for disappointment. It happens.

Notice I had even “negotiated” it down, I didn’t even list Nick Kingham. lol.

Doughnut

Switching out Zito for Hudson is a Major improvement. The addition of Morse in LF where it was a complete black hole was also an strong addition. Pagan being healthy while we are still in contention is also a Huge change from 2013. The bullpen is also much better and much stingier then last year. This is actually a solid pitching staff. Very solid starting rotation and good bullpen. They are not allowing a lot of runs. This lineup is capable of scoring enough runs to compensate the pitching staff. I agree this team could be improved but it is undoubtedly a stronger team then 2013 in my opinion. You really can’t underestimate those upgrades in my mind and the overall effectiveness of swapping a 2013 Barry Zito with 2014 Tim Hudson and adding Peavy. Also Vogelsong is having a good year. Bench and depth still a problem but 2013 team was hopeless with the injury to Pagan, and Blanco playing everyday and a AAA option in LF nightly and the pitching unraveling.

Peter Johnson

I am rooting for him, I do not go may the best man win, I want the Giants to win even if they are the worse team, but get lucky, I will take a win any way it comes .

2holehitting

I find it odd they vote players in and vote managers in. I do not understand why they can not vote Rose in as a player. He was banned by baseball as a managager and not as a player. The baseball hall is a private company and not MLB.

It will be a great tragedy if they do not vote him in while he is alive.

Doughnut

Quintana is very solid. He kind of unraveled after that crazy deal at the plate. Team showed signs of life in the late innings. We had to face the two best starting pitchers, who are both darn good, of a team that isn’t very good. And next up we have Cole Hamels who is pitching great. Not good luck, but whatever, you can’t worry about those things anymore. Just the win the next game. Maybe Bumgarner throws another CG and a shutout and hits one into the bleachers and the fans go home happy.

Matthew

Good point and I wonder as well….in my opinion, Rose is CLEARLY deserving to be in the Hall as a player.

2holehitting

Yes for pitchers they get kneck injuries watching the ball fly by. For ball players they get sore legs from all the running the bases and chasing fly balls in the outfield

BALDHEADSLIK1

Someone needs to call Sabean on the Panic statement asap, the boy can play.

Michael Scott

It’s closer than those numbers might appear- Hamels is 6th in the NL at 3.1, MadBum is 9th at 2.7.

2holehitting

That is why the Giants had no representation in the futures game.

BALDHEADSLIK1

Lets see on Joe P-bat control YES
Patience-YES
Will take a walk-YES
Contact Hitter-YES
Good Bunter-YES
Hits ball to the right side of infield-YES
Baseball IQ–YES
Put the boy in the #2 spot Bochy Jesus Christ.

2holehitting

I mentioned the other day it took months before Bochy move Buster up to the 4 spot in 2010. It did not matter that he came out of the box hitting 350. He also primarily only played him at first base and continued to play Benji until they traded the Slug to Texas

2holehitting

career batting average similar to Scutaro – Yes.

BALDHEADSLIK1

.BB is a stubborn man and sometimes to the detriment of his club.

PuigRomoDirkRonaldo

Cole Hamels is very close to joining Boston so Giants fans keep dreaming.

2holehitting

Rose was the player to go see and watch or watch on TV. He was baseball during his playing tenure. He crossed 3 generations with the length of his career. He was praised and used as a measuring stick of how one should play the game fierce competitive and hustling on every play.

To not give him his honor for how baseball used him in building their brand when he was a player is a disgrace.

2holehitting

No I was not comparing Hicks to Belt,

I was comparing your Hypocrisy of blasting Hicks as having falling off and not his total contributions which was exactly the opposite of what you used to Praise Belt and suggest he was on pace for 45 home runs when his productivity clearly had declined and he was not on that pace by any means.

carmot

I figure this is sort of directed towards me. Yeah, I know BOS figures to land him. I’m sure glad you got Justin Germano, so now you won’t need to trade for Hamels this winter.

Kramerica

Yes and pigs are very close to landing on Saturn.

paul in p.v.

Screw that! May Bumgarner win!! :o) snorkel

paul in p.v.

Personally I’m pleasantly surprised to see Panik’s name.

carmot

Paul, you gave that an up vote?! *sigh*

– signed, “Man of Constant Sorrow.”

paul in p.v.

Musta been the tides in SF Bay.

2holehitting

yah that is what you say, what I give you is typically a couple weeks to a couple months to show how a player is doing. Or in Chokefords case 4 years of track record as well as Belt being a slow starter except for this year and a strong closer.

DrLefty

From the Best Movie Ever!

BALDHEADSLIK1

EXACTLY

Michael Scott

So what would you have done to address having a RH pinch hitter for this series? Seriously. And why would they dump him *after* getting past the lefty dominated staff?

cabbie

Wow, the Seattle Mariners are 10 games above .500 When did that happen?

BALDHEADSLIK1

BTW Hamels is still to good to come here, needs a few more years on the arm b4 he comes here.

Years back, one time I was performing at Bay Meadows race track in San Mateo. On the grass, by the Winners’ Circle on the inside of the track. Was about 94 degrees that summer day. My friends dumped one of those big gray trash bins, that is about waist-level tall… Completely filled w/ ice that melted after holding chilled beverages… Straight over my head, without notice. Completely soaked me.

Shocked me more than swimming in a snow-melt lake up at Tahoe. 1 1/2 year old, yeah. Maybe not such a good idea.

paul in p.v.

Ah shoot I dunno… :o/

paul in p.v.

When they won 8 in a row. :o)

DrLefty

Yeah, that’s something for her to discuss in therapy in about 20 years. Especially with video evidence all over social media.

carmot

Strategy will be interesting this winter, who signs first and who signs last. Several high-quality pitchers available. And teams always need them. Parity, media money, and all that.

OMT

LOL @ A’s Network has the scoring graphic in the way of the LH batter from CF camera.

BALDHEADSLIK1

I’ll give cash for the cause but ain’t nothing gettin dumped on this smooth dome.

Yeah I’ve noticed both BA CSN’s still do it, like people still have SD tv’s anymore. Well, I guess, some, do. Anyway other networks all over the country tuck in way in the corner of the HD aspect ratio.

Doughnut

That is a GREAT article/interview. To me it points out a few things. One, TL is very aware of what is going on and he is thinking at a very high level. He is balancing his range so well and so aware of it that he literally, by the numbers, is liable to throw any pitch at any count.
2) The problem is mechanics. I think in that side by side GIF it shows very clearly that out of the stretch he struggles. No way he can get by throwing like that out of the stretch.
I also think that he is not as strong and athletic as he was in 2011 and that is hurting his mechanics. His delivery requires great athleticism and be in great shape to work well.

The big difference when he is going well and not is mechanics and how smooth they are. When they are right he can be a very very solid pitcher. Not the CY guy he was earlier but very effective. The fastball needs to have life on it for him to succeed and that is based on mechanics.

Brownie

Hammel of the AAA’s getting rocked again. Down 5-0 in the third to the Braves. Go Giants and hope for some early runs.

OMT

LOL @ Crisp can’t see the ball in CF on 2 straight fly’s, one a 3R HR, and next one ground rule 2b.

OMT

Turner sure looks to be under lit though all around. Saving $ on electricity towards the new stadium?

You know when i was a teenager in the 70s we hardly played basketball or football all we did was play baseball, the neighborhood i grew up in was predominantly all black and every kid had gloves,cleats,balls and bats and that is how i became a pretty decent player. The other sports were played also but only as a afterthought.

Matthew

My baby girl lives and works in Seattle – as a die hard Giants and Niners fan, bless her heart – and reports that , as suspected, NO one cares about the M’s…of course, after the Hawks SB win, it only got worse. She has attended about 10 mariner games, and said they are 20-something fun, but half empty unless King Felix pitches

2holehitting

You know your getting old, when you buy a soundtrack of a movie and you play it in the car with your Mom and she starts singing every song.

channelclemente

It’s not a very optimistic analysis, by either Lincecum or the author.

Sam Francisco

@@@

Guest

You know Duffy has more hits in his past 12 at bats than Crawford has had in his past 36?

In 1/3 the at bats, Duffy has 33% more hits than Crawford in those 36 at bats

http://www.jeff-bunnell.com jeffbunnell

You are proving my point. ANYTHING when compared to last year is an improvement. Realize though that 90% of the Giant fans out there aren’t taking that into consideration and feel that 2014 is a failure. I say anything over 76 wins is an improvement.

http://www.jeff-bunnell.com jeffbunnell

I agree with you 100%. But it seems that you and I are in the minority, as we are logically comparing this years team to last years. Every other Giants fan is comparing this years team to the team in 2012 and that’s not a fair comparison.

http://www.jeff-bunnell.com jeffbunnell

I do think that 2012 was Posey’s career year and his yearly production will be around .290/18/80 + or – for most of his career. He’s definitely not a high average hitter, or you’d see him at .350 every May 1st. Boggs, Gwynn. Piazza, Pujols, Carew, all had numbers like that. Posey hasn’t done that. Good players can have great years though, but rarely can do it more than once or twice. For example, I don’t think Hanley Ramirez is gonna win another batting title.
The Giants don’t need Posey to do that year after year though, but they do need SOMEONE to do it.

http://www.jeff-bunnell.com jeffbunnell

People are saying they overachieved. I think that they just gelled very quickly out of Spring Training and the other teams weren’t there yet.
They ran into stars that weren’t hitting and pitchers that weren’t dominating. Everything they did, they did right. I remember thinking “Remember how bad they were last summer (2013)? This is the opposite end of that spectrum..”

JStreet

You know it. Here’s one:
“Well, you know you’re right Lon, you know. You know I can hit.”