It will be over soon

Don’t worry. There are only five more days to go and then we return to regular service. I appreciate there may be one or two of you less interested in the single most important American election in our lifetimes but after their 6th of November (our 7th) it will be over for four years.

Among white Catholics, Romney has jumped to a 14-point lead (54-40) after being tied with Obama in September in the poll.

…Yet Catholic voters have reason to feel particularly aggrieved, given the Obama administration’s battle with the Catholic church over the mandate in Obamacare that employers cover abortion drugs and contraceptives.

Those grievances came to the fore particularly sharply in mid-October, after the Vice Presidential debate between incumbent Democrat Joe Biden and Republican challenger Paul Ryan (both Catholics). Ryan brought up the conflict between the administration and the church over Obamacare: “They’re infringing upon our first freedom, the freedom of religion, by infringing on Catholic charities, Catholic churches, Catholic hospitals.”

There is actual hard scientific evidence that Obama is well ahead in the polls.

Now if you want to refute that evidence with actual evidence of your own, go ahead.

But “Obama is a doo-doo head so Romney must win” isn’t an argument. It’s a primal scream.

Go ahead and bet your money based on your emotions, but those of us in the reality based community will go with the data. Of course, if you had any grasp of reality you wouldn’t be supporting a shape-shifting cyborg like Romney in the first place now would you.

These behaviors go far beyond “spin.” They amount to a pack of lies. To return to office a narcissistic amateur who seeks to ride this nation’s economy and international esteem to oblivion, like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb to its target at the end of the movie “Dr. Strangelove,” would be disastrous.

Candidate Obama said if he couldn’t fix the economy in four years, his would be a one-term presidency.

Mitt Romney is moral, capable and responsible man. Just this once, it’s time to hold Barack Obama to his word. Maybe we can all do something about that, come Tuesday.

According to latest records 230,000 fewer Democrats have voted early in Ohio this year. 40,000 more Republicans have voted early in Ohio this year.

This is telling us three things. The Kenyan enthusiasm is well down from 2008, GOPers are far more agitated to vote and this is now the biggest poll we’ve had in the state so far. It’s not going well for the Kenyan.

“Today, Catholic politicians, bureaucrats, and their electoral supporters who callously enable the destruction of innocent human life in the womb also thereby reject Jesus as their Lord,” Jenky added. “They are objectively guilty of grave sin.”

Gee. “Safe, legal and rare” Abbott, who’s cool with Medicare funding of abortion, wants to watch out he doesn’t get a letter from Pell.

His own staff thought he was a war criminal and forced the morally hideous old drunk to pull back from incinerating women and children in Germany.

The Germans started total war. Fair enough. You shouldn’t be surprised if they copped some back.

In war you do what it takes to win. Far better that the enemy die, including civilians, than your own citizens. Bombing the shit out of countries is a good strategy for crushing the will of rogue nations. This is what happened to an even greater extent in Japan. Note that there was no resistance in either Germany or Japan during occupation.

As MacArthur said “There is no substitute for victory”. Something that modern Generals seem to have forgotten in their rush to kowtow to the human rights lobby.

Caution: the old WW2 bombing trollery has derailed many a thread previously. It’s too easy to do, and one of the reasons I get very bored with trolls who just don’t know when to stop, so should be stopped.

My view is that it’s difficult to make an omelette if you are squeamish about breaking eggs. If throwing Uncle Joe a bone in the form of some SS men, cossacks and camp followers is the price to be paid for decades of peace in Europe then so be it – done deal.

I thought you meant Patsy, and Gen. Patton was obviously mentally unwell and also brilliant. He also complemented people with insults. He couldn’t help it, he was a mad, crusty old son of a bitch. The only people he was genuinely affectionate to were his immediate family.

Patton was not an anti semite. I don’t know why you bring this absurd story up.

Patton was actually made sick by the sight of the place he could not tour the whole thing. He was that overcome with grief, disgust and anger.

Not the actions of an anti semite.

from the Jewish virtual library:

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others.

dot: Patton won battles and in that sense was a successful General. But he was anti-Semitic beyond the “normal” country club standards of his day, as one of the articles put it.

The one incident you cite, which CL did last time, does not exactly carry much weight against the over the top things he was writing in his diary in 1945, as well as his earlier behaviour during the war, as was set out in the article I linked to before.

Of course, the fact that Patton carried pistols, was routinely hyperbolic, crude and self aggrandising in speech and letters, as well as slapping men around for not being manly enough, makes him a sort of folk hero for many here.

Of course, the fact that Patton carried pistols, was routinely hyperbolic, crude and self aggrandising in speech and letters, as well as slapping men around for not being manly enough, makes him a sort of folk hero for many here.

By the way, I see the New York Times has a lengthy article on the difficult process of completing the soon to be released 3rd volume of Manchester’s (well, co-written) Churchill biography. (I haven’t read the first books, but Sinclair and IT have praised them here.)

By the way, I see the New York Times has a lengthy article on the difficult process of completing the soon to be released 3rd volume of Manchester’s (well, co-written) Churchill biography.

Well I wouldn’t trust the NYT on anything.

All you need to know about Churchill is that when his campaign in the Dardanelles had failed, he resigned as Lord of the Admiralty and rejoined the army so that he could lead a battalion on the Western front.

The old buffoon was told to stop burning women and children in Dresden and then proceeded to blame his officers. Not long after, in cooperation with the mentally dotty Roosevelt, he gave Poland to the Soviets – which was a fantastic end to a war begun to liberate Poland from tyranny.

Eventually, in March 1945, Churchill admitted to being a terrorist.

It seems to me that the moment has come when the question of bombing of German cities simply for the sake of increasing the terror, though under other pretexts, should be reviewed. Otherwise we shall come into control of an utterly ruined land… The destruction of Dresden remains a serious query against the conduct of Allied bombing. I am of the opinion that military objectives must henceforward be more strictly studied in our own interests than that of the enemy.

The Foreign Secretary has spoken to me on this subject, and I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction, however impressive.

All you need to know about Churchill is that when his campaign in the Dardanelles had failed, he resigned as Lord of the Admiralty and rejoined the army so that he could lead a battalion on the Western front.

He should have come to Australia and apologised.

But of course he would have been shot.

…the US should have put Patton in charge of “negotiations” to get Stalin out of East Europe, with nuclear weapons at the ready too.

The Foreign Secretary has spoken to me on this subject, and I feel the need for more precise concentration upon military objectives such as oil and communications behind the immediate battle-zone, rather than on mere acts of terror and wanton destruction, however impressive.

Wow.

After all the words Churchill has written, that is all you’ve got? A clumsy discription of a quite justifiable bombing campaign?

In your opinion was the nuking of Japan a terrorist act? Was the fire bombing of Tokyo a war crime?

Serious wars are won by taking serious action. Far better to win than to have an exit strategy.

Jupes, Churchill was canned following the Dardanelles. He begged to keep his job.

But yes, he did head straight for the western front.

Of course part of the reason he got canned from the admiralty was because he kept leaving the navy to visit the WF to give sundry advice on artillery placements, cavalry manoeuvres, hand to hand combat etc.

No no. Communist, terrorist liberator, Black Panther enabler and Fast & Furious murderer, the soon to be impeached Eric Holder – and his boss, ‘law professor’ Barack “Benghazi Benedict Arnold” Obama – wanted to run a show trial for the actual mastermind of 9/11, Khaled Sheik Mohammed. They also wanted Miranda Rights for terrorists – like the ones who killed that ambassador before Obama went to Vegas for a party.

He couldn’t help it, he was a mad, crusty old son of a bitch. The only people he was genuinely affectionate to were his immediate family.

Hmmm, so was Rickover who was the major figure in US submarine development and strategy. Hated by all and sundry, incredibly sarcastic and demeaning of others. Yet his wife thought completely otherwise. Strange paradox akin to what you say about Patton. But Rickover was brilliant.

FACT: Strategic bombing was a brand new concept in WWII and its true effect was unknown.

FACT: The Germans started the mass bombing of cities during the blitz, they accidentally bombed civilian targets and from then it was an eye for an eye.

FACT: Bomber Harris was the main proponent of area bombing.

FACT: Bomber Command was the only portion of the military that did NOT receive a campaign medal for WWII. Churchill also failed to mention them in his VE speach.

FACT: Churchill always hated the reds and it was FDR that continually undermined Churchill during negotiations with Stalin. It was Churchill that had the stomach to express his dismay at the Iron Curtain that had fallen over Europe after WWII.

FACT: Strategic bombing was a brand new concept in WWII and its true effect was unknown.

Partially true. The Germans started strategic bombing with dirigibles as early as 31 may 1915 and by 31 May 1916 550 British civilians had been killed. They switched to daylight attacks with strategic bombers from 25 May 1917 with Operation Türkenkreuz opened with Kagohl 3’s 23-strong raid on Folkstone and Shorncliffe. The british also got into the game in 1916.

FACT: The Germans started the mass bombing of cities during the blitz, they accidentally bombed civilian targets and from then it was an eye for an eye.

Incorrect. Warsaw was indiscriminately bombed very deliberately indeed in 1939, and Rotterdam in 1940. There was absolutely nothing accidental about either.

FACT: Bomber Harris was the main proponent of area bombing.

Not quite. He was echoing Trenchard and Douhet. Area boming was all the technology actually permitted until OBOE came on-line: then the Master Bombers from Pathfinder Force were able to use three main tactics: Musical Parramatta (using navigation aids such as H2S radar or Oboe radio signals to drop the markers), Musical Wanganui (Skymarking using Oboe or H2S and releasing the markers over the unseen target) and Musical Newhaven (flares dropped above the target area to light it up sufficiently for a visual marking by the Pathfinder aircraft).OBOE was first used effectively from 23 March 1943 when the Ruhr Campaign opened. And flattening the arsenal of the National Socialists actually demanded area bombing of those cities (look at the postwar USSBS survey of Wuppertal to get the point, you had to destroy the city to eliminate its weapons making capacity due to the plethora of small manufacturing firms)

FACT: Bomber Command was the only portion of the military that did NOT receive a campaign medal for WWII. Churchill also failed to mention them in his VE speach.

True – and that was a shameful act on Churchill’s part.

FACT: Churchill always hated the reds and it was FDR that continually undermined Churchill during negotiations with Stalin. It was Churchill that had the stomach to express his dismay at the Iron Curtain that had fallen over Europe after WWII.

The one incident you cite, which CL did last time, does not exactly carry much weight against the over the top things he was writing in his diary in 1945, as well as his earlier behaviour during the war, as was set out in the article I linked to before.

IT WAS WRITTEN BY A JEWISH ADVOCACY GROUP. THEY LIKE THE CRUSTY OLD BASTARD. YOU DON’T LIKE PATTON BECAUSE YOU ARE A SHORT SHORT, CARDIGAN WEARING PANSY.

CL is right about Churchill.
It’s awesome that he was able to recognize the threat and lead Britain through the war, but he was also a malicious ratbag. Yes, he did a fantastic job, but it is wrong to lionise him and try to justify all his decisions as good decisions, or as fitting into a coherent, rational strategy to defeat Hitler.

Anyway, unlike our misty-eyed Churchill-worshippers of today, the British people of the time saw him clearly and understood him for what he was. They turfed him out of office once the war finished. That wasn’t some incomprehensible and unfair twist of fate. It was exactly the right outcome.

Yeah, well as you say, CL would have had him tried as a war criminal. I’m not sure I’d go that far, but I agree with him about Churchill’s character and that some of his decisions were despicable. There’s definitely a case that the Dresden bombing was a war crime. It was certainly sadistic.

(btw if anyone pushes the revisionist lie that it served some obscure military purpose, I’m not playing… we’ve already argued that one out and the revisionists lose)

Sure. no question. Some people can’t handle that apparent contradiction. The thing is though, I would have said it the other way around. To wit:
“Churchill was a great man, but a flawed man nevertheless.”

It gave the pomsa Labour socialist democratic government,

the rise of socialism and social democrats in Britain is a bigger historical question. The political alternative to Churchill notwithstanding, the British people correctly rejected Churchill the individual as an ongoing peacetime leader.

In Conversations with Max, by S.N. Behrman (London, 1960), p. 85, the author notes that Sir Max’s knighthood might have been delayed by his various severe criticisms of the royal family over the years, and suggests to him:

it was a wonder he had been knighted at all; in fact, I wasn’t sure that his residence in Italy was entirely voluntary.
Max chuckled; his shoulders shook. “You must remember,” he said quietly, “it was British royalty.”
“That is so,” Miss Jungmannn [who later married Sir Max] said, looking at me seriously. There are no people like the English. I am a foreigner—I am German and I can say it. I had a job in the Foreign Office during the last war—i believe I told you. I shall never forget the day Dresden was bombed. i can’t tell you the pain that was felt in the Foreign Office. Pain! It was a massive bombing, you remember. it had to be done, but no one was happy about it. Just the contrary. I’ll never forget the atmosphere in the Foreign Office that day, overcast with gloom. That could happen only in England. Only the English are like that!

My previous post referred to Sir Max Beerbohm (if anyone wondered). His second wife, Elisabeth Jungmann (later Lady Beerbohm) was a German Jewess who worked for the Political Intelligence Department, a section of the British Home Office, in WWII.

By the way, shouty dot, you apparently refuse to believe the evidence of Patton’s own diary and letters as to his deep anti semitism..

So what. Anti-semitism was rife in the West. My mother told me that when they first heard rumours about the Holocaust here in Aus she heard people saying: thank god someone is doing it. ……. You do know that the USA in the great wisdom of Eugenicists was treating Jews with complete contempt in the 1920’s? That many citizens of many countries were quite happy to help in the extermination of the Jews? How ironic that it was Jews who turned out to the brainy ones and that a homosexual, Alan Turing, made one of the most important single contributions in WW2(Bletchley Park). History is instructive, it reminds us, as if we needed reminding, of how fucking stupid and violent we can be. Pinker is right, we are getting better. Perhaps too slowly.

DS, if you read about Patton and his anti semitism at the end of the war, which I don’t think you have, you would see that it got him into trouble. As I said before, even by the standards of the day, his attitude appears extreme and it was recognized as such by his superior.

This is worth noting as a relevant matter when assessing him as a character in history.