Aquaponics Digest - Fri 10/29/99

Message 1: Airy Business
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 2: Re: Concrete...
from dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Message 3: Re: Strawberries????
from Robert WALKER
Message 4: Re: Bananas
from "Robert Claytor"
Message 5: Re: Strawberries????
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 6: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from "TGTX"
Message 7: Re: Airy Business
from djhanson@calweb.com
Message 8: Re: Airy Business
from Gordon Watkins
Message 9: Re: Concrete...
from Jon Hays
Message 10: Raspberries
from Gordon Watkins
Message 11: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Ronald Polka
Message 12: Re: Concrete...
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 13: Re: Raspberries
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 14: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 15: Re: Concrete...
from Jennifer Maynard
Message 16: Best crops to try first
from PWGARDENS
Message 17: Re: Raspberries
from Gordon Watkins
Message 18: Re: Raspberries
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 19: Re: Raspberries
from Gordon Watkins
Message 20: Re: Raspberries
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 21: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Message 22: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Ronald Polka
Message 23: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 24: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Ronald Polka
Message 25: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
from Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Message 26: Re: Best crops to try first
from Bagelhole1
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 1 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Airy Business
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:26:40 +0100
I have read my head choc a bloc full of material on aerators.
I have a slight "gray area". (outside the scope of my gray matter....two
different places here....ehhhhrm...) While I can appreciate what is said
below, when comparing numbers in a catalog say Aqua...E..'s there are a
lot of references of CFM cubic feet per minute at a given depth and the
pressure of the air stream. =
However, does anyone on the list know how or where I can get a table
which correlates all these inputs? In other words, how much of that air
at that temp, and pressure pumped out into my fish tanks at "x" depth
will actually be "usable" breathable oxygen by the fish? In other words,
CFM/temp/given depth =3D=3D> what SOTR? (see blow for SOTR def'n. )
I would expect this to give me the SOTR which "is the amount of oxygen
that an aerator will transfer in 1 hour to clear freshwater at 20=B0C
which contains zero (0) mg/I DO."
Its all good knowing all this stuff if most of the Aquatic catalogs, at
least which I have, for some reasons only give Kw/Hp/CFM/and Psi
ratings..
Correlations are made below but I dont see from where this is being
taken or the functions involved?? Any ideas?
Hoping I havent lost you all....Helllloooo?!!
Hey, KISS principles in a home system that works for you would be
appreciated too!! Any system walkthrus??
Lonely here....Mike. :)
Somewhere in someones literature it says:
Performance =
The ability of an aerator to transfer oxygen to water is expressed as
the standard oxygen transfer rate (SOTR) and the standard aerator
efficiency (SAE). The SOTR is the amount of oxygen that an aerator will
transfer in 1 hour to clear freshwater at 20=B0C which contains 0 mg/I DO=
=2E
SOTR usually is expressed as pounds of oxygen per hour. The SAE is
simply the SOTR divided by power input; it normally is expressed as
pounds of oxygen per kilowatt~hour or pounds of oxygen per horsepower.
Power input may be expressed as power applied to the aerator shaft
(brake power) or the electricity consumption by the aerator (wire
power); it is best for practical purposes to express SAE in terms of the
rated horsepower of the aeration unit. Standard conditions employed for
presenting SOTR and SAE values seldom exist in aquaculture systems. As
DO concentration and water temperature rises, actual oxygen transfer
rate and actual aeration efficiency decrease with respect to SOTR and
SAE. For example, at 30=B0C and 4 mg/I DO, an aerator would transfer only=
about 50% of the oxygen suggested by SOTR and SAE. Nevertheless, SOTR
and SAE are important for they permit comparisons of efficiency among
aerators. =
Researchers at Auburn University evaluated the performance of many
aerators and studied the effect of design features and operating
conditions on performance. Results in terms of pounds of oxygen
transferred per kilowatt of electrical power used are summarized below: =
SAE lb O2/hp-hr
-----------------
Aerator type Average Range
-------------- -------- -----------
Paddle wheel, all types 3.1 1.6 - 4.3
Propeller-aspirator pump 2.3 1.9 - 2.6
Vertical pump 2.0 1.0 - 2.6
Pump sprayer 1.9 1.3 - 2.8
Diffusion 1.3 1.0 - 2.3
S & S Aqua Farm wrote:
> =
> Charlie Shultz posted to the Jamaica mail group some results they've ha=
d at
> UVI using Redear Sunfish to control a snail infestation in their system=
=2E
> Charlie, I think that would be a great addition to this group as well i=
f you have the time to repost here.
>
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 2 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Concrete...
From: dreadlox@cwjamaica.com (michael kent barnett)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 01:27:23 +0100
Hi guys...
My queries have lead me to the range of latex polymer concrete
modifiers!! I will soon be trying this out... and will post the reslts
if anyones interested. It is waterproof and water is safe fr fish and
pools ponds water storage..
MIke, the concrete putterer...
Brian Gracia wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I would use a coat of fibreglass resin made for water contact to line the
> tank. Bitumen, which is a tar based paint can be used. I have search high
> and low for other applications, but what I found was that non of the
> products were safe for potable water use.
>
> Brian
>
> At 08:55 AM 9/19/99 , you wrote:
> >This is not the liquid liner stuff, this is actually an additive to
> >chemically modify the concrete!!
> >
> ********************************************
> Better Produce through Better Control
> ********************************************
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 3 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Strawberries????
From: Robert WALKER
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 22:34:15 +1000
Paula,
Sorry for the attachments, this was a result of replying to
your message, which then bounced with "I dont understand
messages from the list server".
The mail system which I use is antiquated and unless you
have a VMS system (From COMPAQ formerly DEC) running the
ALLIN1 mail application could you get a virus (if there were one).
But one has to be careful, it is another reason to be against
INTEL and MICROSOFT....I shall get off my high horse!
About really interesting stuff......Aquaponics!
My system is a hybrid. The fish system is home built with a small
biofilter, able to deal with 20kg of fish (or crayfish in my
system). The hydroponics system is a 1m x 1m (3'x3') by about
6" deep. It uses expanded clay pellets as medium. My reason
to move to a commercial system were - costs, my attempts to
save money for the fish system exploded by 300% - so my thoughts
were to go the other way and buy off the shelf - this again
looking in the future may be another shot in the foot!
So far my thoughts are to place the flood & drain between
2 parts of the biofilter. The first part takes the ammonia
into nitrates and therefore decreases the PH, the second part
has shell grit (fresh water shells), the idea (and so far
so good) is to push back the PH to 7.5 and has been reliable
since.
The aim therefore (since flood and drain requires water on and
water off periods) would be to place a timer & pump in the middle
to take advantage of the PH swing and eat the nitrates and/or
ammonia (The flood period is 15min/hour over a 24hour cycle).
Since the nutrients from the fish stock is high in nitrogen, I
would presumably have to add other nutrients (I was thinking of timed
release direct to the root zone of the plants). Thanks Adriana
for your input (A recent em indicated that strawberries wernt
keen on Calcium, this from the notes appears to be untrue -
at least to my non-professional eyes).
My stock is just off the shelf strawberry plants called in Australia
Tioga and and red gauntlet (Not sure if these mean anything
probably a marketing strategy!).
My main aim is to trial a commercial venture down the track,
(I am looking at a crayfish farm and RAS systems with BARRAMUNDI
and given the environmental aspects wish to recycle water
and derive an additional income...this is all down the track)
the aim is to get a feel - even if it means only dealing with
leafy greens (due to the flops with strawberries) - My interest
was perked up when I heard you had some successes.
Regards,
Robert Walker,
Australia.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 4 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Bananas
From: "Robert Claytor"
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 03:17:29 PDT
Thanks Peggy and Emmett for the banana information. I found the Rajapuri
variety on the Stokes Tropical website and ordered one yesterday. I will
grow it through the winter indoors with a halide grow lite, on a hydroponic
bed of lava media my kids call "cocoa puffs".
The only problem I have now is all the wonderful plants I found on the
Stokes website I want to buy..but can't afford.
bc
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 5 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Strawberries????
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:13:42 -0400
Paula,
Could you chime in here? I seem to recall a comment of yours a while
back that, while pH is critical in both soil and hydroponic growing,
your experience with aquaponics is that plants seem to grow well despite
what, on the surface, appears to be a pH level that is not conducive to
good growth. If this is so, then Robert is going to extreme lengths to
control pH unnecessarily...
Adriana
> So far my thoughts are to place the flood & drain between
> 2 parts of the biofilter. The first part takes the ammonia
> into nitrates and therefore decreases the PH, the second part
> has shell grit (fresh water shells), the idea (and so far
> so good) is to push back the PH to 7.5 and has been reliable
> since.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 6 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: "TGTX"
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 06:40:19 -0500
> Hi group
> just a question. Do aquotic plants, such as watercress, use ammonium
> rather than nitrates. I heard this is a biology lecture the other day.
> Is it true? If it is can you use a bed of watercress or large algae
> instead of a biofilter.
> Andrew
Plants can ASSIMILATE OR UPTAKE all 3 forms of inorganic nitrogen: Nitrate
nitrogen NO3, Nitrite nitrogen (NO2), and ammonia or ammonium (NH3 or NH4,
depending on pH). This is obvious since ammonium sulphate is a very common
fertilizer, as well as ammonium nitrate, as well as calcium nitrate in
hydroponics. The plants would use less metabolic energy in fixing the
ammonium into plant proteins I suppose, since the ammonium is already
reduced and therefore closer in oxidation state to the amino acids that will
eventually be incorporated into proteins. Nitrate must be reduced, but the
plants can do it. Remember what we said about the interior of living cells
maintaining a somewhat reduced environment in which oxidation nevertheless
takes place in the form of respiration? Glutathione and other cellular
biochemicals are inside the cell doing their thing to maintain reductive
pressures, while other processes are doing oxidative things, and there is an
overall balance between the 2 "pressures" or sides of the
oxidative-reductive thingy. And only a few microns away, outside the cell,
there exists an somewhat oxidizing environment. "Feel the burn", as our
favorite aerobic video celebrity and, uh, self-appointed diplomatic expert
to Vietnam, Jane Fonda might say.
Speaking of oxidation-reduction, did you know that folks at Tufts University
ranked Concorde Grape Juice as having the highest anti-oxidant value of any
food ? Blueberries (Hey Gordon!) and Strawberries (Hey Adrianna!) ranked
high, too. Kale and cooked spinach ranked high, too.
Read up about it in a recent issue of "Prevention" magazine. Sorry this has
nothing to do with plant nitrate uptake. I just thought it was interesting.
Let's see, how about if I segwayed the comment by suggesting that we grow
concorde grapes in our aquaponic greenhouse. We could get some good
homemade wine out of the deal as well.
Cheers,
Ted
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 7 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Airy Business
From: djhanson@calweb.com
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 07:33:48 -0700
michael kent barnett wrote:
> While I can appreciate what is said below, when comparing numbers in
> a catalog say Aqua...E..'s there are a lot of references of CFM cubic
> feet per minute at a given depth and the pressure of the air stream.
> However, does anyone on the list know how or where I can get a table
> which correlates all these inputs? In other words, how much of that
> air at that temp, and pressure pumped out into my fish tanks at "x"
> depth will actually be "usable" breathable oxygen by the fish? In
> other words, CFM/temp/given depth ==> what SOTR? (see blow for SOTR
> def'n. )
I doubt you'll find any such table because difusion rate of oxygen into
(and CO2 out of) your water is really dependant on 3 main factors:
1) Relative partial pressures (how much O2 is in your water vs. the air
you're pumping through the water)
2) Contact time (the longer you can keep the bubble under water, the
more diffusion we result)
3) Surface area (finer bubles have more total surface area, and thus a
higher diffusion rate, for a given volume of ait)
The first item probably won't be a factor for you (but it does point out
why using straight O2 is more efficient that room air). The second
points out why water pumps w/ venturis that are set up to drive the
stream of bubles down into the water (thus increasing contact time) and
the use of reaction chambers (which also increase contact time) are more
effient. And the third shows why a pump capable of delivering the same
volume of air, but at a greater pressure, can be more efficient if a
finer poor size is provided by using a different air stone.
--- dj
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 8 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Airy Business
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:57:33 -0500
You might get some answers from the book "Aquacultural Engineering" by
Frederick Wheaton (available from
amazon.com). It has a chapter on Oxygen with equations that might help
answer your questions. It's also a good
basic reference for anyone designing or operating an aquacultural facility.
Gordon Watkins
michael kent barnett wrote:
> However, does anyone on the list know how or where I can get a table
> which correlates all these inputs? In other words, how much of that air
> at that temp, and pressure pumped out into my fish tanks at "x" depth
> will actually be "usable" breathable oxygen by the fish? In other words,
> CFM/temp/given depth ==> what SOTR? (see blow for SOTR def'n. )
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 9 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Concrete...
From: Jon Hays
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 09:10:29 -0600
I would be very interested.
John Hays
At 06:27 PM 10/28/1999 , you wrote:
>Hi guys...
>
>My queries have lead me to the range of latex polymer concrete
>modifiers!! I will soon be trying this out... and will post the reslts
>if anyones interested. It is waterproof and water is safe fr fish and
>pools ponds water storage..
>
>MIke, the concrete putterer...
>
>
>Brian Gracia wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would use a coat of fibreglass resin made for water contact to line the
> > tank. Bitumen, which is a tar based paint can be used. I have search high
> > and low for other applications, but what I found was that non of the
> > products were safe for potable water use.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > At 08:55 AM 9/19/99 , you wrote:
> > >This is not the liquid liner stuff, this is actually an additive to
> > >chemically modify the concrete!!
> > >
> > ********************************************
> > Better Produce through Better Control
> > ********************************************
John Hays
1903 Pebble Hill Rd.
Carlsbad, NM 88220
1-505-887-0102
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 10 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Raspberries
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:17:41 -0500
The recent discussions about strawberries and Ted's mention of
blueberries and grapes (hey Ted) reminded me of an article I read a
while back about greenhouse production of raspberries. The plants are
started outdoors in containers and once their dormancy requirements have
been met, usually around the first of the year depending on location,
they are moved into the greenhouse where they are tricked into fruiting.
After fruiting, the plants are moved back outdoors, pruned, transferred
to a larger container if necessary, and maintained until the next
winter.
The article referred to a run-to-waste drip system but it seems like
a natural for an aquaponic system. Just place the pots (1-5 gal.,
depending on age) on top of the gravel beds which would act like a
capillary mat or ebb & flo. I propagate houseplants this way and it
works well.
I grew brambles outdoors for several years and raspberries command
top dollar, ususally around $2.50/half pint during the season.
Off-season imports are 3-4 times that, a price which would justify the
efforts required of such a system. Has anyone tried this by chance?
Gordon Watkins
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 11 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 10:03:10 -0600
At 02:14 PM 10/29/1999 +0930, you wrote:
>Hi group
>just a question. Do aquotic plants, such as watercress, use ammonium
>rather than nitrates. I heard this is a biology lecture the other day.
>Is it true? If it is can you use a bed of watercress or large algae
>instead of a biofilter.
> Andrew
>
Andrew
Plants will use both ammonia and nitrates. The area of concern between the
two types of nitrogen arises from plant response to these nutrients.
Ammonium will promote rapid vegetative growth especially if light levels
are less than optimal. This can be a liability for many crops. Winter use
of ammonia compounds should be done carefully to avoid this problem.
Ammonia can be used successfully to cure nitrogen deficiency problems
because it will be utilized by the plant more rapidly. If your main focus
is on biofiltration then the plants uptake of ammonia is desirable.
However, in a biofilter most ammonia conversion is accomplished by
nitrobacter and nitrosomonas bacteria with only a minor portion of the
ammonia uptake being done by plants in the filter.
Watercress can be used as a biofilter. I have used it in a small flow
through tilapia fry and fingerling setup (500 gal) to reduce the ammonia
levels in the waste water. The cress grew well and I presume it did some
ammonia conversion. I don't have numbers on the performance because I was
not monitoring ammonia levels in that system at the time. I have drawings
and a design procedure for a shallow horizontal flow watercress biofilter
that was given to me last year. It appears to be a valid procedure but I
don't know if it has been rigorously tested for its performance. If you are
interested contact me off list and I will forward the information to you. I
am not posting it here because it contains several files totaling 385 kbytes.
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 12 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Concrete...
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:19:41 -0600
I'm interested. I recently discovered the wonders of ferro cement, which is
simple and stronger than regular cement. I'm using it for pit greenhouse
walls, and tanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: michael kent barnett
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Concrete...
> Hi guys...
>
> My queries have lead me to the range of latex polymer concrete
> modifiers!! I will soon be trying this out... and will post the reslts
> if anyones interested. It is waterproof and water is safe fr fish and
> pools ponds water storage..
>
> MIke, the concrete putterer...
>
>
> Brian Gracia wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I would use a coat of fibreglass resin made for water contact to line
the
> > tank. Bitumen, which is a tar based paint can be used. I have search
high
> > and low for other applications, but what I found was that non of the
> > products were safe for potable water use.
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > At 08:55 AM 9/19/99 , you wrote:
> > >This is not the liquid liner stuff, this is actually an additive to
> > >chemically modify the concrete!!
> > >
> > ********************************************
> > Better Produce through Better Control
> > ********************************************
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 13 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:53:48 -0400
Gordon,
I've been dying to try some raspberries and I have a chef who asks me
for them every time I see him. There was similar research done by the
University of Florida only they started with oversized canes (52")
delivered from the plant suppliers after they had been dormant for the
appropriate time. They were then planted (in-ground in this experiment
but in your case they would go into the greenhouse). The original canes
would begin to produce flowers almost immediately while at the same time
start producing a second set of canes. Thus you get two crops one after
the other. Here in Florida you would either scrap the plants or find a
way to put them into "cold storage" for a month or so.
I just received a catalog from Spooner Farms which supplied the canes
for the Florida tests. Let us know if you try it. Could you also
provide the source of the article?
Adriana
> while back about greenhouse production of raspberries. The plants are
> started outdoors in containers and once their dormancy requirements have
> been met, usually around the first of the year depending on location,
> they are moved into the greenhouse where they are tricked into fruiting.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 14 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:56:05 -0400
Ron,
I thought watercress did best in cool waters and tilapia does best in
warm water. Aren't they incompatible?
Adriana
> Watercress can be used as a biofilter. I have used it in a small flow
> through tilapia fry and fingerling setup (500 gal) to reduce the ammonia
> levels in the waste water.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 15 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Concrete...
From: Jennifer Maynard
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:25:55 -0300
I would be interested.
Jennifer
maynard4@candw.ag
Jon Hays wrote:
>
> I would be very interested.
> John Hays
>
> At 06:27 PM 10/28/1999 , you wrote:
> >Hi guys...
> >
> >My queries have lead me to the range of latex polymer concrete
> >modifiers!! I will soon be trying this out... and will post the reslts
> >if anyones interested. It is waterproof and water is safe fr fish and
> >pools ponds water storage..
> >
> >MIke, the concrete putterer...
> >
> >
> >Brian Gracia wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I would use a coat of fibreglass resin made for water contact to line the
> > > tank. Bitumen, which is a tar based paint can be used. I have search
high
> > > and low for other applications, but what I found was that non of the
> > > products were safe for potable water use.
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > At 08:55 AM 9/19/99 , you wrote:
> > > >This is not the liquid liner stuff, this is actually an additive to
> > > >chemically modify the concrete!!
> > > >
> > > ********************************************
> > > Better Produce through Better Control
> > > ********************************************
>
> John Hays
> 1903 Pebble Hill Rd.
> Carlsbad, NM 88220
> 1-505-887-0102
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 16 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Best crops to try first
From: PWGARDENS
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:18:56 EDT
If anyone on this list would have a list of some of the best crops to try
first in an auquaponic setup please let me know. I am located in Virginia .
THANKS Marlan
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 17 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:34:46 -0500
Adrianna,
The article was in the May 1999 issue of American Fruit Grower and was
written by Marvin Pritts, associate professor, dept. of fruit and vegetable
science, 134-A Plant Science Bldg., Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY, 14853-0327,
phone 607-225-1778. Proceedings of the Cornell Greenhouse Raspberry Conference
are available for $20 from Dr Pritts.
Titan was the largest and most productive variety with good results also
from Tulameen, Chilliwack, and Encore. Royalty (purple) and Heritage produced
fruit of unacceptable flavor.
Yields averaged 11 half-pints per plant between mid-Feb. and mid-April
with prices of up to $6 and higher. At $3 they calculated net profits of
$2,500-$5,000 per 1,000 square feet of greenhouse space.
Let us know if you pursue this and I will do the same.
Gordon Watkins
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> I just received a catalog from Spooner Farms which supplied the canes
> for the Florida tests. Let us know if you try it. Could you also
> provide the source of the article?
>
> Adriana
>
> > while back about greenhouse production of raspberries. The plants are
> > started outdoors in containers and once their dormancy requirements have
> > been met, usually around the first of the year depending on location,
> > they are moved into the greenhouse where they are tricked into fruiting.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 18 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:46:46 -0400
Thanks Gordon,
What type of spacing and trellising do they recommend?
Adriana
> The article was in the May 1999 issue of American Fruit Grower and was
> written by Marvin Pritts, associate professor, dept. of fruit and vegetable
> science, 134-A Plant Science Bldg., Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY, 14853-0327,
> phone 607-225-1778. Proceedings of the Cornell Greenhouse Raspberry Conference
> are available for $20 from Dr Pritts.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 19 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Gordon Watkins
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 14:46:05 -0500
The first year, one year old plants in 1 gallon pots are placed in double rows 5
feet apart spaced so that approximately 26 plants are contained in each 3 meter
length of row. After fruiting, they are moved outside and transplanted into
7 gallon
pots. The next winter these are moved in and spaced 22 inches apart in
single rows
5.5 feet apart. Canes are trellised to a single horizontal wire running down the
row.
Gordon
Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
> Thanks Gordon,
> What type of spacing and trellising do they recommend?
>
> Adriana
>
> > The article was in the May 1999 issue of American Fruit Grower and was
> > written by Marvin Pritts, associate professor, dept. of fruit and vegetable
> > science, 134-A Plant Science Bldg., Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY, 14853-0327,
> > phone 607-225-1778. Proceedings of the Cornell Greenhouse Raspberry
Conference
> > are available for $20 from Dr Pritts.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 20 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Raspberries
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:07:09 -0400
Gordon,
I checked my correspondence files and Spooner Farms had indicated that
they could supply the long canes as long as orders were in by November
1. There is a premium charge for shipping but it is probably worth it
since it allows you to jump-start the crop and piggy-back a second crop
behind it. They come in boxes of 100 plants. To get in touch with
Spooner e-mail SPOONERKM.
Adriana
Gordon Watkins wrote:
>
> The first year, one year old plants in 1 gallon pots are placed in double
rows 5
> feet apart spaced so that approximately 26 plants are contained in each 3
meter
> length of row. After fruiting, they are moved outside and transplanted
into 7 gallon
> pots. The next winter these are moved in and spaced 22 inches apart in
single rows
> 5.5 feet apart. Canes are trellised to a single horizontal wire running
down the
> row.
>
> Gordon
>
> Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta wrote:
>
> > Thanks Gordon,
> > What type of spacing and trellising do they recommend?
> >
> > Adriana
> >
> > > The article was in the May 1999 issue of American Fruit Grower and was
> > > written by Marvin Pritts, associate professor, dept. of fruit and
vegetable
> > > science, 134-A Plant Science Bldg., Cornell Univ., Ithaca, NY, 14853-0327,
> > > phone 607-225-1778. Proceedings of the Cornell Greenhouse Raspberry
Conference
> > > are available for $20 from Dr Pritts.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 21 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: "Jewel" <1mastiff@amigo.net>
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:24:49 -0600
I'm pretty sure Tom S. had said they grew watercress in their system. He
also said we could dedicate some of our beds to growing watercress to feed
to the tilapia..
Jewel
----- Original Message -----
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
To:
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
> Ron,
> I thought watercress did best in cool waters and tilapia does best in
> warm water. Aren't they incompatible?
>
> Adriana
>
> > Watercress can be used as a biofilter. I have used it in a
small flow
> > through tilapia fry and fingerling setup (500 gal) to reduce the ammonia
> > levels in the waste water.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 22 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 16:01:35 -0600
At 01:56 PM 10/29/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>Ron,
>I thought watercress did best in cool waters and tilapia does best in
>warm water. Aren't they incompatible?
>
>Adriana
Adriana
There never seemed to be a problem with temps. I ran the tilapia tanks at
75 to 80 deg and the watercress grew like crazy. It would occasionally go
through a dormant period but would then take off again. It thrived on a
lightly loaded waste stream.
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 23 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:09:24 -0400
Ron,
Do you have gravel flood and drain beds or some other system to anchor
the watercress?
Adriana
> There never seemed to be a problem with temps. I ran the tilapia
tanks at
> 75 to 80 deg and the watercress grew like crazy. It would occasionally go
> through a dormant period but would then take off again.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 24 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Ronald Polka
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 17:33:02 -0600
At 07:09 PM 10/29/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>Ron,
>Do you have gravel flood and drain beds or some other system to anchor
>the watercress?
>Adriana
>
Adriana
I grew watercress in a 50 gallon rubbermaid stock tank that was plumbed
onto the discharge of a 500 gallon tilapia fry and fingerling setup. The
stock tank acted as a settling chamber and biofilter. This wasn't an
optimal setup because of the danger of low oxygen levels in the sediment
layer. The loading was light because biomass was never heavy in the system.
However, it seemed to work well. I used a floating raft for support.
Blueboard styrofoam with holes cut in it for the roots to pass through. The
watercress was started from seed (Shepards) and transplanted to the
styrofoam after it was growing well. The one thing that I did notice was
that the watercress seemed to go through cycles where once every couple of
months it would turn brown and die back, stay dormant for several weeks and
then take off again like gangbusters. It would grow up and over the sides
of the tank with runners more than 2 feet long. It was good eating when the
bugs didn't get into it too much. The growth rate was very impressive. The
75 to 80 deg temps didn't seem to bother the cress at all. I also grew
lettuce in that system too but the watercress kept crowding it out. If you
are interested in general biofilter sizing procedures I also files relating
to that from several sources in addition to a specific biofilter design for
watercress. If you want that info drop me line. Good luck with your system.
Ron Polka
Southwest Technology Development Institute
New Mexico State University
Box 30001, Dept 3SOL
Las Cruces, NM 88003
rpolka@nmsu.edu
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 25 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: ammonia and aquatic plants
From: Adriana Gutierrez & Dennis LaGatta
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 19:43:04 -0400
Ron, I am fishless (strictly hydro) at this point but am thinking of
setting up a couple of floating beds. Did you have net pots for the
seedlings or just holes drilled large enough to fit the roots through?
What was the spacing for watercress?
Adriana
Ronald Polka wrote:
> I used a floating raft for support.
> Blueboard styrofoam with holes cut in it for the roots to pass through. The
> watercress was started from seed (Shepards) and transplanted to the
> styrofoam after it was growing well.
.------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------.
| Message 26 |
'------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------ ------'
Subject: Re: Best crops to try first
From: Bagelhole1
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 1999 00:21:22 EDT
In a message dated 10/29/99 8:20:12 PM, PWGARDENS writes:
<>
Please let me know, Marlan, Thanks, Tom O http://bagelhole.org