I hate to say this, but he shouldn't be in the game during crunch time (not yet). His turnovers hurt the team too much. I know he's young and developing, but as of now this team has a lot of close games, and since he's not getting the keys for the last shots anyway, put in a vet who won't make turnovers.

John Patrick wrote:I hate to say this, but he shouldn't be in the game during crunch time (not yet). His turnovers hurt the team too much. I know he's young and developing, but as of now this team has a lot of close games, and since he's not getting the keys for the last shots anyway, put in a vet who won't make turnovers.

Discuss.

if you watched the game you know that the people to blame for the loss are
1. Baron
2. Baron
3. Baron
4. Baron
5. Dunleavy

They were the ONLY guys who touched the ball during crunch time. Baron chucked up lousy fadeaway after lousy fadeaway and got 8 turnovers. He never passed out of the double and single handedly lost us the game. The only guy he passed to was dungleavy who wasn't able to do **** with it. The fourth quarter baron was basically the only guy who ever touched the ball. Monta touched the ball about five times the whole fourth quarter. if they had given it to him they may have won.

I agree, Baron was laughable tonight. That's just not how you play basketball. I wanted to strangle him watching him shoot three's with 5 minutes left and the game still close. 10 point lead and the game down the drain at the hands of Mr. Davis.

I'm not referring to this game only, I'm talking about the season. Yes Baron was the main loss for this game, but Monta did make 4 turnovers. He makes more turnovers over all the games though, and a lot during crunch time (not referring specifically to this game). He's 3rd in the league in turnovers! Not a player I want out there during crunch time.

And who would we have out there in place of Monta? Roberson, McCleod? Have to disagree. I think Monta will continue to improve exponentially and is one of the Ws 3 best offensive options right now. There is no doubt Bad Baron took over from good Baron and lost them the game, along with no rebounding.

To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

Pest, you're forgetting something: Baron had a pretty bad 4th quarter, but the Warriors wouldn't have even been IN the game without him. Keep that in mind before you say he "single-handedly lost us the game".

You'll probably bring up Baron's 8 turnovers... but too bad he still only averages 2.5 a game on the season (while everybody's pet, Monta Ellis, carries a 3.5 average). And if you think the stats lie, ask yourself one thing: who, between Davis and Ellis, handles the ball more?

Baron played a great game, but lost it with 5 minutes left. It was heart-breaking, but to say the loss was his fault is a lie.

Last edited by 32 on Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

John Patrick wrote:I hate to say this, but he shouldn't be in the game during crunch time (not yet). His turnovers hurt the team too much. I know he's young and developing, but as of now this team has a lot of close games, and since he's not getting the keys for the last shots anyway, put in a vet who won't make turnovers.

Discuss.

if you watched the game you know that the people to blame for the loss are1. Baron2. Baron3. Baron4. Baron5. Dunleavy

They were the ONLY guys who touched the ball during crunch time. Baron chucked up lousy fadeaway after lousy fadeaway and got 8 turnovers. He never passed out of the double and single handedly lost us the game. The only guy he passed to was dungleavy who wasn't able to do **** with it. The fourth quarter baron was basically the only guy who ever touched the ball. Monta touched the ball about five times the whole fourth quarter. if they had given it to him they may have won.

I reiterate, baron's choking is the biggest reason we lost the game

we lost b/c we dont have a go to guy other than baron..and every other team knows that...

sorry, 32. Baron's play the last quarter was damaging to the team. Baron pulled his garbage the entire 4th quarter and had 1 assist the entire second 1/2, it wasn't just 5 minutes. Baron had a great first half and a truly pigheaded 4th quarter. And yes, 8 turnovers count, and the discussion was about this game, not how he has done ths season, so that is highly relevant. It's like samuel johnson said, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. The man completely froze out his teammates in the last 1/4. It is maddening, cause he can be such a wonderful playmaker but the 4th quarter nonsense has become a real pattern. Check baytobrooklyn's post under game thread - I think it captures it well. There is a Good Baron and a Bad Baron. The Bad Baron, along with no rebounding and what you rightly point out as Nelson's bizarre obduracy in playing Ike only 2 minutes, were the main causes of an 86-78 lead evaporating in a 17-2 run in the space of 6 minutes.

Pest, you're forgetting something: Baron had a pretty bad 4th quarter, but the Warriors wouldn't have even been IN the game without him. Keep that in mind before you say he "single-handedly lost us the game".

You'll probably bring up Baron's 8 turnovers... but too bad he still only averages 2.5 a game on the season (while everybody's pet, Monta Ellis, carries a 3.5 average). And if you think the stats lie, ask yourself one thing: who, between Davis and Ellis, handles the ball more?

Baron played a great game, but lost it with 5 minutes left. It was heart-breaking, but to say the loss was his fault is a lie.

It happens over and over again, baron got us in the game, but in the last 15 minutes keith mcleod almost would have been better than him. I'm talking about this game individually so baron's season stats are a moot point. If you jump in front of a bullet to save somebody.... and then shoot the guy you saved twenty times with a glock, you still messed up.

My point is that there couldn't have been a more innapropriate time to make this thread when monta was the only reliable player on the court for the majority of the second half.

#32 wrote:Pest, you're forgetting something: Baron had a pretty bad 4th quarter, but the Warriors wouldn't have even been IN the game without him. Keep that in mind before you say he "single-handedly lost us the game".

True, but I'm with pest and colt here. I've said it in other thread a few weeks ago. I'm nervous when Baron has to take over the game in the fourth quarter... sometimes he looks great and other times he makes so many dumb plays that he's a big reason we lose those games.

Maybe having J-Rich back at full strenght will help to close games, as he seems to be the guy in which Baron has more confidence to help carry the team. But, right now, I hate when a game comes down to the wire. And even more if it's on the road.

aletha33 wrote:we lost b/c we dont have a go to guy other than baron..and every other team knows that...

we lost cuz we ain't got the players...

it ain't BD.

With the way Baron played last night in the fourth quarter, was any other Warrior player even given a chance to step up and make a big shot? I would say NO.

When Baron gets the idea in his head that he is going to single-handedly try to carry this team, he usually fails miserably. He has immense talent not just scoring the ball, but distributing it as well. He would be wise to drive, draw and dish the ball to get others involved and take some of the pressure off himself to score all the points down the stretch.

As for Monta, yes, he turns the ball over some, but I think his ability to get to the basket and make some big shots are the reasons he is in there. Unfortunately as I eluded to in the last paragraph, more times than not, Monta and the rest of the team is standing around watching Baron try to force the issue and try to make something out of the nothing.

Monta has his faults and no one is overlooking that, but as good as Baron Davis is, he is hurting the team with his selfish play in the fourth quarter and Nellie needs to address this issue as soon as possible or we will be in for more fourth quarter meltdowns as we saw last night.

coltraning wrote:And who would we have out there in place of Monta? Roberson, McCleod? Have to disagree. I think Monta will continue to improve exponentially and is one of the Ws 3 best offensive options right now. There is no doubt Bad Baron took over from good Baron and lost them the game, along with no rebounding.

I agree, Monta should stay out there because he can create and he will get better at the end of games. There just isn't anyone else I'd rather have out there that is on the bench

Pest, you're forgetting something: Baron had a pretty bad 4th quarter, but the Warriors wouldn't have even been IN the game without him. Keep that in mind before you say he "single-handedly lost us the game".

You'll probably bring up Baron's 8 turnovers... but too bad he still only averages 2.5 a game on the season (while everybody's pet, Monta Ellis, carries a 3.5 average). And if you think the stats lie, ask yourself one thing: who, between Davis and Ellis, handles the ball more?

Baron played a great game, but lost it with 5 minutes left. It was heart-breaking, but to say the loss was his fault is a lie.

It happens over and over again, baron got us in the game, but in the last 15 minutes keith mcleod almost would have been better than him. I'm talking about this game individually so baron's season stats are a moot point. If you jump in front of a bullet to save somebody.... and then shoot the guy you saved twenty times with a glock, you still messed up.

Nice analogy

Right on the money though!

A team's best player SHOULD always be trying to make their team win. Baron did that with a great 1st half and then did the opposite with a hog artist idiot 4th quarter!

#32 wrote:Pest, you're forgetting something: Baron had a pretty bad 4th quarter, but the Warriors wouldn't have even been IN the game without him. Keep that in mind before you say he "single-handedly lost us the game".

True, but I'm with pest and colt here. I've said it in other thread a few weeks ago. I'm nervous when Baron has to take over the game in the fourth quarter... sometimes he looks great and other times he makes so many dumb plays that he's a big reason we lose those games.

Maybe having J-Rich back at full strenght will help to close games, as he seems to be the guy in which Baron has more confidence to help carry the team. But, right now, I hate when a game comes down to the wire. And even more if it's on the road.

I agree, TMC. And this is one of those cases where the Bad Baron had no perceived reason to start his nonsense. The Ws had the game in hand. They were up 86-78 following a nice play for a Dung layup. one of those silly probability stats showed the Ws with an 85% chance of winning at that point. That is exactly when Baron started his thickheaded play, or as our women friends are fond of telling us, he started thinking with the little head. Nelosn was equally thickheaded for keeping JRich out in the 4th and playing Ike only 2 minutes in the game

Nelson on J Rich
The good news was our team was ahead when he went out. That’s the good news. We also had some energy then. I didn’t think I should put him back in, as much as I wanted to. I didn’t think he was good enough yet. I didn’t know that after him sitting that long it would be fair for him to test that knee.”