Veterans and the “Occupy” movement.

The thousands of indefatigable Wall Street protestors, risking their eyes and recording equipment against Wall Street’s personal jack-booted thugs in the NYPD, recently garnered even more support– the US Marines. That’s the type of support that may make an NYPD cop think twice before he decides to go all Tiananmen Square on a group of teenage girls, armed with chalk and cardboard signs (maybe it’s because they are spelled properly?).

The Occupy Wall Street movement may have thought it broke new ground when the NYC Transit Union joined their movement, but that ground just tipped the Richter Scale with news that United States Army and Marine troops are reportedly on their way to various protest locations to support the movement and to protect the protesters.

That part obviously caught my eye. But what came next was worse, the article cites to Ward Reilly, who on his Facebook claimed:

“I’m heading up there tonight in my dress blues. So far, 15 of my fellow marine buddies are meeting me there, also in Uniform. I want to send the following message to Wall St and Congress:I didn’t fight for Wall St. I fought for America. Now it’s Congress’ turn.

My true hope, though, is that we Veterans can act as first line of defense between the police and the protester. If they want to get to some protesters so they can mace them, they will have to get through the F*ing Marine Corps first. Let’s see a cop mace a bunch of decorated war vets…

We can organize once we’re there. That’s what we do best. If you see someone in uniform, gather together. A formation will be held tonight at 10PM. We all took an oath to uphold, protect and defend the constitution of this country. That’s what we will be doing.

The problem with this section is manifold.

First, Ward Reilly hasn’t served in the military since 1974. And he never served in the Marine Corps. And his service was less than exemplary (including a stint AWOL.) And his truth telling has been an issue in the past. For instance, as my friend Jonn once noted, Reilly claimed:

[Reilly:] I served, proudly, for 32 months in Germany in the 1st & 16th(Rangers) as a mortar gunner, starting in 1971, when I volunteered for the infantry at age 17.(With 2 full years left in the ground war in Viet Nam)

I went where the army sent me…that what soldiers do. I could have just as easily been sent to Viet Nam, but I got lucky.

[Jonn wrote:] Well, that part about “two full years left in the ground war” isn’t exactly true. Reilly joined in October 1971 – ground forces in Vietnam were being reduced and by August 1972 all combat forces had been withdrawn.

That “(Rangers)” in Reilly’s statement jumped out at me when I first read it, so I did a little research and found that the 16th Infantry Regiment call themselves “Iron Rangers” and that’s why Reilly added it to his bio – hoping to scare every one into thinking he was a Ranger.

It’s like the 7th Infantry putting (Cottonbalers) on their unit designation because that’s their nickname (from the Battle of New Orleans when they fought the British from behind cotton bales). Could we assume that they’re actually qualified to bale cotton?

The second problem is of course, that active duty people (and veterans too for that matter) aren’t supposed to be showing up at political events in uniform. The premise of our military is that we answer to civilian authority, and showing up as if the military is supporting something like this is verboten.

Anyway, we do know there are veterans out there. Here’s a few videos that show that. Some context on the first one, since I looked into it. Apparently there are two parks that the protestors have been using in Boston, Dewey and the Greenway. The protestors were allowed to be in Dewey, and in the Greenway up until midnight, but they didn’t want them camping there for the simple reason that the city just spent $150,000 planting shrubs and cleaning it up. When 1:00 am rolled around, so did the police.

Now, it is perhaps unfair to share that one without a look at one guy who is legit (Ryan Cahill), and taking part in the occupy movement.

Now the ridiculous “Veterans Today” (no link for them ever) is calling on all Veterans Organizations to send our people into the street in support of the movement. That is unlikely in the extreme to happen. We didn’t take a position on the TEA party officially, and we won’t be officially taking a position here. Not sure why they even would think as an organization we would. I’m certain that many of our Legionnaires are out protesting, and probably an equal number are watching it on TV at home grumbling about the protestors.

As Lincoln said,A house divided against itself cannot stand

The reality is that The Legion is a microcosm of veterans as a whole. And our people run the gamut from the far right to the far left. I know prominent Legionnaires who have either served as, or served under, politicians on the Democrat and Republican side. I even know one Legionnaire who served three different Governors, a Republican, a Democrat and an Independent.

I remain somewhat ambivalent. If they have a common cause, I haven’t figured out what it is, and I hate to waste taxpayer money on security and clean up. But, the Constitution allows for a petition of redress to grievances, and I guess that is what this is. Hopefully at some point someone will articulate the specific intent.

Comments

I agree with the idea that service people in uniform should not show at any such movement, political rally because doing so implies that the military supports one cause or another, one candidate over another. On the other hand, I think it's okay to say "I'm a veteran...and I support..." whatever the cause is: Obama for President, McCain for President, Occupy Wall Street, the Tea Party because your status as a veteran - someone who has taken an oath, offered to put his/her life on the line - may establish some credibility. I have nothing but contempt however for people who say they're veterans when they are not or even who inflate their status. They should be called out and publicly humiliated.

I think its way too early for any significant group like our Vets to show support for any protests when we can't establish who's behind the movement, and the protesters can't articulate what it is they really want. Reminds me of "Viet Nam Vets aginst the war" in my day. Keep in mind, a lot of these Cops are also Vets! It's just plain stupid.

No, The fascists in that well-financed "grass roots" Tea Party think that they're being lions while they really are just angry sheep--you're absolutely right! It's time people woke up to the real danger here.

I do not know about other cities, but here in Orlando, the Tea Party folks appeared to be all new to politics. I have been involved in Republican campaigns for 20 or 30 years and these folks were all new folks. I think I saw one person I knew from politics at each rally. There were thousands there. Different folks had different concerns, like opposition to the Federal Reserve, but I think the general mood was concern for massive deficits and the possible monetization of the debt and that sort of thing.
Generally have seen no social issues concerns expressed, just the deficit thing and the Federal Reserve.

Oh, and the Tea Party folks are anti-Fascist and pretty well anti-any big government. Some are Libertarians, others Constitutionalists but overall are believers in limited government and are, like the Left concerned about the Patriot Act.

T Brown, Actually that sounds positive to me--frankly I wish that Conservatives would also embrace Conservation as they once did. You know, not every single issue has be part of a political battlefield. Look, a political dialogue is healthy, as long as people are essentially well meaning and are willing to discuss and not turn to intense negativity. I've seen to much of it from both fringes, and if I've done it I'm not proud-Lincoln had it right when he hoped that "the better angels of our nature" can emerge.

The Occupy Wall Street movement continues to gain momentum precisely because it is a collection of many different points of view all coalescing around the fundamental complicity of Wall Street banks and finance firms along with the top 1% of wealthy individuals in the near total collapse of our financial system. Where was all that "personal accountability" when those individuals both real and on paper, were about to lose everything? It was missing. These parasites, yes, qualifying even in Ayn Rand's philosophy, who produce nothing but take their "winnings" from betting, came crawling to the American taxpayer to bail them out by "socializing the losses" their greed has resulted in. First it was Bush and TARP, then the Obama administration carrying on the Bush policies that has attracted the massive protests in this country. There are no reds hiding under the beds. This is a response to a group of people calling themselves capitalists until they failed.
The protesters, I count myself among them, want there to be personal accountability of those who actually created the financial meltdown - and it wasn't average Americans wanting to buy a home.
The fact that these protests have occurred across the country even in small towns, says something about the willingness of average Americans to take their right to peaceably assemble for a redress of grievances into an actual physical manifestation. I am a veteran and I support any and all Veterans who take part in these protests. This is very much in the tradition of the "Bonus Army" protests in the late 1920's. Let's hope our Government does not resort to the same measures today. Protesters then had a valid complaint as do the protesters today.

How your jumping on the socialist/communism bandwagon, huh? GET A CLUE! Don't disgrace our proud military falling for mindless dronings of a bunch of idiots wanting nothing more than to collapse our economy. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE SMARTER THAT THAT!

I do not understand how any veteran can say this. If I remember right, Wall Streets derivatives brought down our economy. Many people have been directly impacted by job loss. Something they did not cause but was caused by greed and deception. The United States Constitution gives these people the right to protest. I thought we all swore to uphold the Constitution! The people collapsing our economy are those people who make over $250K net a year who have had their taxes cut. Also the 1 Trillion we spent to bail out Wall Street. Americans use to pay there fair share. In fact during President Eisenhower's years the tax rate on the wealthiest Americans was 90 percent. Don't try to rewrite history. This just happened in the last few years.

This was not caused by Wall street a street can not do anything. The words Wall Street are catch words used by the guilty to blame other people. This mess was caused by bad goverment. If you will check your world history you will find all major catastrophies were caused by bad goverment, no individual or group of individuals have the power to do this. Your inferance that people making over $250k have had their taxes cut is proven wrong. The majority of income taxes collected come from rich people. The reason we are the wealthiest country in the world is because we have economic freedom.This allows us to use our money to create more wealth. Goverment does not create wealth it destroies wealth, look at Europe. We all need lower taxes to finance more growth.

...Yet the wealthiest 1% control 90%(!!) of the wealth in the US--that disparity has gotten way out of whack--and, in a way, Dale, you have one valid point--it was BAD GOVERNMENT that got us here: trickle-down/supply side economics is all just a way of making sure that those wealthy can buy the government they want--it's not an even playing field. "Allows us to use our money to create more wealth?" For whose benefit? Public education is under financed, higher education can drive students into lifetime debtors--so how do we as a society benefit working so disconnected from this economic disparity? And the unfortunate reality is that practically all politicians sell out,

Sorry JJ but you are incredibly ill informed. Let me educate you a bit.
1. Wealth is accumulated assets.
2. Income is the process of accumulating wealth
3. Income tax has absolutely NOTHING to do with wealth (accumulated assets) only the ability to accumulate wealth. Once the wealth is accumulated, income taxes will not impact the wealthy. It will however insure that those who work hard to accumulate wealth will have far less success doing so, thereby INCREASING the amount of wealth controlled by your imaginary 1%. Therefore, the means by which to spread the wealth around is to REDUCE tax rates thereby encouraging productivity and investment.

For example, despite being a trust fund recipient with full access to hundreds of millions of dollars of wealth accrued by his boot legging father, by modern Democrat standards Ted Kennedy would be considered upper middle class because his only claimed source of income was his Senate salary of $170,000 a year. Do you really consider the Kennedys as middle class?

The entire economic melt down was a result of bad government. It was a result of the community reinvestment act that was used to require banks to make loans to people without the ability to repay them. The loans were then bought, without adequate underwriting, by FNMA and FHLMC and converted into securities that were sold to investors who were unaware that the securities were NOT the A+ rated bonds that they were presented as. While the legislation was designed to allow people of limited credit to purchase a home, once the Clinton administration started using the Janet Reno Justice Dept to threaten and intimidate banks, and Clinton appointees Jaime Gorelick, and Franklin Raines began gaming the system to pad their wallets, it went out of control pushing the economy ever closer to the drain. Repeated attempts by the Bush administration to rein in the out of control FNMA and FHLMC were met with loud, obnoxious protests from Democrat politicians, most notably Maxine Waters who claimed that the investigation that lead to Franklin Raines resignation was entirely racially motivated. I guess the fact that he had collected over $95 MILLION in bonuses over a 7 year period (over $25 million of which he returned to avoid prosecution) didn't have a thing to do with why the auditors said that the accounting at FNMA bordered on fraud under his tutelage. Gorelick (one of Reno's deputies and later a member of the 9/11 commission) walked away with over $25 million in bonuses during her term at FNMA. She has returned NOTHING.

Wall Steet was conned into investing in mortgage backed securities issued by FNMA and FHLMC that were touted as government backed A+ rated bonds when they were in fact little more than junk bonds. The problem was that there were billions upon billions of dollars invested in these securities that were lost when those securities went bust. Government policies caused the near collapse of the market and with it the economy. Not the actions of brokers. BTW why aren't you and others protesting the huge bonuses (still into the millions annually) being paid to FNMA and FHLMC executives? Those aren't bonuses paid to employees by a company, they're bonuses being paid to bureaucrats with tax payer money. For that matter, why do liberals protest the salaries of business executives but don't say anything about the insane salaries paid to athletes or entertainers?

Educate me? EDUCATE ME?? Listen blowhard, you can write volumes of excuciating deatils of all the accumulated "sins" of all those Dems you so obviously choose to blame for every economic boondogle in our national economy--you mention no villians here but Democrats--and you still don't get it, do you? This is not a partisan issue for me--I'm not just blaming Republicans for feeding at the Trough of Greed--did I ever say that the Kennedys are "middle class", or argue that Joe Kennedy wasn't a bootlegger? Did I ever say that professional athletes or entertainers weren't earning bundles? By your logic though, their income helps to buoy the economy while encouraging excellence (at something). You're tilting at windmills, not arguing with me.
We all know that income tax doesn't really reapportion wealth-it doesn't touch accumulated wealth-which is precisely why a wealthy Franklin Roosevelt was able to sell the idea initially to calm the panic of the wealthy families and politicians he knew. On a similar note, it's awfully difficult to argue that corporations which publically trade on the market aren't acting "in the public interest" when they make decisions which help to maximize their profits--every Union invests for the benefit of their members and every retirement plan has similar investment diversity --investments which both shore up the economy (and "Wall St.") as well as making unionized workers part of the economic cycle. I never called Capitalism a curse--it's just the incredible gap between that wealthy 1% and everybody else which is so jarring--and it sure isn't a partisan issue (not with our "two" Parties, anyway) Why do we have a deduction for "business expenses"? That's easy; to encourage the reinvestment of capital--a smart billionaire simply keeps buying more, invessting in development, and earning essentailly "nothing" in a fiscal year as his profits and losses/expenditures in development flatline. Raising taxes wouldn't touch that dynamic--and no politician, Republican or Democrat, in the US would ever dream of suggesting the elimination of that deduction. No reapportionment of wealth here. Tax breaks abound in a system like ours, and I'm not surely suggesting that they are all wrong. Similarly, though, it's hard to criticise those same corporations who shift all their jobs overeas, increasing the pain of the American working class(or actually unemployed or under-employed class), when they can manufacture their products at "slave wages" in (Communist???) China, when that action supports the fiduciary duty they owe their shareholders (who, as I mentioned, might be the very unions who are thereby supporting their own extinction) to improve their profit margin.
The problem for me is the absence of protective tarrifs with teeth and more than that the priorities our system has---with no commmitment to public education(including Headstart--which was a success), national healthcare, sensible energy development, veteran healthcare, and many other programs which improved the society as a whole, by cutting taxes we underfunded needed supports in our economy and put unholy pressure on the majority-eclipsing the American Dream for millions. No, don't presume through your partisan posturing that you "educate" me.

Lt Scrounge, you are right on. It is obvious that the folks who are blaming Wall St for all the economies ills are not students of history. The CRA of the Carter era was the starting point for the current economic mess. Then doubled down over the decades by "progressive" administrations. These folks need to go back and look at how it all evolved since the early part of the 20th century. Few realize that the democraps have been behind it all, including the battle for Civil Rights. The left hijacked credit for the civil rights movement once they saw it was futile to continue fighting against it. And, the evidence clearly points out where the problem began. Those who will refuse to see the evidence as you pointed it out, just don't want to come to the logical conclusions directed by the evidence.
Those who refuse to see that the far left is behind these protests need to study more history of how the left destroys countries. They are blind or ignorant or both. Sad.
Kudos, Lt Scrounge, keep up the good posts.

Guidry,
That's just weird-- you say"the left hijacked credit for the Civil Rights movement once they saw it was futile to continue fighting against it" You never heard of lefties Eugene Debs, A. Philip Randolph, The International Labor Defence and the Scottboro Boys trial, the African Blood Brotherhood? . I don't know what history book you read...you think the left fought against the Civil Rights Movement? Not on this planet.

I believe the idea that if we took all the wealth and divided evenly among everyone in a short time the very same 1 percent would eventually control 90% all over again. Its not government or stealing that make these people wealthy its knowledge, hard work, sacrifice and a host of other qualities that gets them there. That's why most people who win the lottery end up broke after a few years.

BT it is not their hard work and sacrifice that got them there. No one gets that rich all by themselves. There is some measure of work but, It is who they know and what they have on one another that makes for the power. For that reason only, you are probably correct those same 1 % would regain control IF We let down our guard again.
Our mothers and fathers or grandparents helped put through the Glass Steagal Act (I hope I spelled that correctly) which prohibited exactly what got us into this mess - the merging of consumer banking with investment banking - in other words, Billionaires got to play with OUR money FOR FREE- just like in the 1920's. Then when they lost it all they wanted it to come out of OUR checking accounts and not theirs. At least in the 1929 crash, the wealthy tried to right the markets on their own because they at least had the dignity to be Americans first and wealthy second.The protests are aimed at this fact and the lack of accountability so far. You want to defend those who are afraid of personal responsibility, that is your right.
I don't mind people getting wealthy, I do mind those who want to come crying when they lose it all through their own actions.
It was and is knowing fraud on the part of the financial sector that caused this meltdown despite all the railing against Fannie and Freddie who did NOT do the bundling of securities and who did not rate the securities that failed and who did not make up the derivative model of gambling, er, investing that FAILED. The protesters are saying quite clearly we should not be rewarding failure at the top. If you want an example of what is still wrong look at the last CEO of Hewlett Packard who got almost 23 million FOR FAILING miserably. Not only that he failed at the job he had before that! And yet, the top 1% want us to believe they have to pay such big salaries for talent - if their only talent is to fail and collect a big bonus let the rest of the American people in on it.

This was caused by BAD GOVERNANCE… we can vote out bad governments (so far) until they destroy the Constitution of the United States. Yes the wealthy 1% controls 90%. The 1 % at some point took the risk to get rich. Who do you work for? Is he/she rich? FLAT TAX and everyone pay’s the same. Yes I have heard that is unfair for the lower end folks, But is it? They at the lower end get all kinds of hand outs freebees. Stuff the upper middle/middle class don’t get.
I am the 53%

Public Education is funded just fine if one removes administrative redundancy and union gouging. Why do you rail against the successful? These folks already pay the lion's share of the nation's taxes. Why are you in favor of punishing the successful, they have done exactly as they should. They strove to be the very best they could be and succeeded at doing so. Why do they owe anyone a living at their expense? If your answer is they can afford it, that makes you in favor of theft. Being able to afford anything is not an automatic obligation to provide (or purchase) that thing.

If you are upset by these people making a profit, quit purchasing their products. Go out and manufacture your own products. If you don't like the cost of any given college or university find one that doesn't cos as much. However, regardless of where you finally choose to go, the cost of attending is your cost and no one should pay for anyone else to attend an intitution of higher education. The rich (whatever that means) owe the rest of the nation nothing in addition to what they already pay in taxes.

Finally, if you can't find a job, or are under-employed, blame the government for running our industries off shore. Wall Street and bankers didn't do it. Right now the only thing that bankers are guilty of, is not loaning money that the government gave them. In the long run, this too is the government's fault. The President's administration handed out TARP bonuses to the banks at the onset of the administration and the country got screwed. BLAME the Obama for not seeing it coming; it is his fault, not some esoteric thing labeled the rich.

Public Education is funded just fine if one removes administrative redundancy and union gouging. Why do you rail against the successful? These folks already pay the lion's share of the nation's taxes. Why are you in favor of punishing the successful, they have done exactly as they should. They strove to be the very best they could be and succeeded at doing so. Why do they owe anyone a living at their expense? If your answer is they can afford it, that makes you in favor of theft. Being able to afford anything is not an automatic obligation to provide (or purchase) that thing.

If you are upset by these people making a profit, quit purchasing their products. Go out and manufacture your own products. If you don't like the cost of any given college or university find one that doesn't cost as much. However, regardless of where you finally choose to go, the cost of attending is your cost and no one should pay for anyone else to attend an intitution of higher education. The rich (whatever that means) owe the rest of the nation nothing in addition to what they already pay in taxes.

Finally, if you can't find a job, or are under-employed, blame the government for running our industries off shore. Wall Street and bankers didn't do it. Right now the only thing that bankers are guilty of, is not loaning money that the government gave them. In the long run, this too is the government's fault. The President's administration handed out TARP bonuses to the banks at the onset of the administration and the country got screwed. BLAME the Obama for not seeing it coming; it is his fault, not some esoteric thing labeled the rich.

I'm very proud of every veteran that is participating. We have witnesses a shift of wealth from the middle income and lower income classes to the very wealthy. Gee, why can't they pay their share. Why do they have hundreds of accountants to find every possible way to screw the government. We do need a tax code overhaul but we can start simply by removing all the special breaks for oil, farmers, construction projects, and so forth. Oh, don't touch the depreciation for landlords, because I am one. :)

I recall serving in the military to PREVENT shit like this from happening. You petty sniveling tells me you never amounted to much in life and your one of those CRYBABIES that blames all your problems on everyone but yourself. STUDY HISTORY! READ THE CONSTITUTION!

Shameful. We don't even know who's behind it, nor what they really want?
A lot of the Cops who "alledgedly mace little girls" are Vets! This whole protest thing is tired.
As a Vet myself, I find this an embarassment.

Well, yes and no; the students that were ordered to disperse (stop blocking a public way) and refused by locking arms making it harder to remove them. The police used non-lethal force to remove them as they are entitled to do.

However, there were no little girls or little boys in the group illegally blocking a public way.

The use of the word little in relation to these folks is blatantly false.

Veterans as well as other U.S. citizens should be able to support this movement just as many have supported the tea party and other movements. Like any other organization, if you don't agree with it, just don't join it. But don't try to dictate what others can or cannot do.

Are there Communists invovled in these chiefly unarticulated Occupy protests? Probably. Do Communists run or puppet these protests? Probably. Is it illegal to be a Communist? Nope. It's the union participation that really galls me - especially if the unions are public sector workers unions, whose members jobs and fat bennies packages and pensions are pumped-up by what amounts to blackmail of our elect. As far as wearing military uniforms in these gatherings is concerned, I have just two words of Great Depression precedent for everyone to ponder: the Bonus Army, and look what Dougout Doug MacArthur did to those poor guys and their families.

What do they want? They want the rich to pay their share of the bill for democracy, for a change. They want jobs, especially for those who did their duty only to return to no job, no home, no future. They want an education that will not cost them the next thirty years of their lives with no job to pay it off with. They want the banksters, whose greed and treason have brought this country to it's knees, to go to jail for their fraud, embezzlement, and theft. They want what their grandfathers had: a chance to work for a living wage that will give their families a decent life.
As Americans who answered our country's call, isn't that what we wanted for ourselves and our children.

You want accountability, I too want accountability! I demand accountability from the Political Leaders who have allowed this to happen! both Republican and Dems and Independants... I am infuriated at the elected officials and I VOTE. I wish I could vote for them all because I would vote them all out and start new. Sorry for the few good ones like D Issa

As a old Veteran, I would never support this Marxist Movement..... If there are any Criminal actions commited by the Wall St people, then charges shoulds be filed on those responciable & let the courts determine the outcome... This is only a showing by the extreme left using any & all people to further their cause.. Collapse & Restart the Govt System into the New Socialist/Marxist System they want America to become.......

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then."

Point taken. I find it odd that events where participants went ARMED and proudly took pictures of being armed in public gatherings were barely noticed by police but unarmed protesters are continuously monitored by Police at a cost that far outweighs any threat. I am not sure which minority involvement I should be more concerned about.

»sergio noble said...Commander Helms,
I don't know what your background is, but I detect private industry experience, where employee conduct rules are cvered once a year, where malfeasance is not tolerated..Read comment

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News from the World of Military and Veterans Issues. Iraq and A-Stan in parenthesis reflects that the author is currently deployed to that theater.