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I work in an environment and in a field that has union and non-union workers. Not being deceptive about anything. Whatever you read into the situation is up to you. Remember you don't have to respond to my posts.

does everybody get the same wages as the union workers and receive representation in cases of disciplinary actions? You said you were the boss, but,you never answered whether you owned the company or just work for the man. If you just work for the man, would you ask the union to represent you if you got into trouble? Or, would you just take your medicine?

If I am a business owner and the employees attempt to unionize. Do I have any recourse? Can I just say no or fire them all and start anew? Always thought it was very weird that the employees could attempt to tell a business owner they have to let the union in.

There is a story (possibly apocryphal) about the group for whom my wife works. It is said the some years ago (long before my wife started there) that there was an attempt to unionize and the owners basically said "go ahead we're behind you, but, we can live off our dividends and the oil royalties forever without ever producing another thing, thus not really needing employees at all. We can shut down tomorrow and never look back so you decide."
I should say that this group has been a pretty good group to work for with very good health insurance (for which we paid not a cent until just a few years ago) liberal paid vacation and health leave, a good pension plan, and several rather odd benefits that have been pretty nice. They built a school for the children of the employees and made sure that the teachers were top notch. There are a number of employees that are fourth or even fifth generation employees.
I am pretty sure that any privately owned business can absolutely just quit operations and move if they don't wish to go union. Publicly owned operations are, I'm sure, a different story. What I don't understand is whether, if I own rent property for instance, and if I live in a non RTW state, if I can be forced to use union labor to do repairs (plumbers, electricians, etc.) How about if I am a small business owner and need repairs on my facility?

Last edited by HPL; 12-13-2012 at 03:50 PM.

Any doctrine that weakens personal responsibility for judgment and for action helps create the attitudes that welcome and support the totalitarian state.
(John Dewey)

Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company.
(George Washington)

There is a story (possibly apocryphal) about the group for whom my wife works. It is said the some years ago (long before my wife started there) that there was an attempt to unionize and the owners basically said "go ahead we're behind you, but, we can live off our dividends and the oil royalties forever without ever producing another thing, thus not really needing employees at all. We can shut down tomorrow and never look back so you decide."
I should say that this group has been a pretty good group to work for with very good health insurance (for which we paid not a cent until just a few years ago) liberal paid vacation and health leave, a good pension plan, and several rather odd benefits that have been pretty nice. They built a school for the children of the employees and made sure that the teachers were top notch. There are a number of employees that are fourth or even fifth generation employees.
I am pretty sure that any privately owned business can absolutely just quit operations and move if they don't wish to go union. Publicly owned operations are, I'm sure, a different story. What I don't understand is whether, if I own rent property for instance, and if I live in a non RTW state, if I can be forced to use union labor to do repairs (plumbers, electricians, etc.) How about if I am a small business owner and need repairs on my facility?

In MN, it matters not if your plumber, electrician, carpenter is union or not. What does matter is they be licensed, bonded and insured. We have union shops and non-union shops. Most residential carpentry is nu.

What has bothered me alot about the union bashing posts is the lack of respect for those who fought to form unions and push for a fair and safe work place. I would venture that any person on this forum in an hourly job, trade, driver or manufacturing position would not be making the wage the are if not for unions. And stop and think a moment as to why they were needed at all. I had family members beaten by Mpls goon squads for having the gaul to ask for and strike for a fair living wage and safe work place. Had it not been for unions, who knows what could have happened. This was common place nation wide. Workers had no rights and were considered less than human for years. If not for unions, I know I would not be able to command the wage I currently get for my work nor would my wife for nursing. And the safety measures, I doubt the business's would have invoked them on there own. Do you think the coal mine owners gave a damn about miners getting hurt? How about the iron miners and workers. My father in law has asbestosis from working as plumber.. I can assure you the shop was not the one pushing for safety measures.

There is no question that many unions went too far in both wage demands and benefits, caused in large part to the history of labor getting the short end of everything,but most have come to realize that both sides have a stake in the game, and the business owners have come to realize they cannot afford to short the help because they are the ones who are doing the work to make the company profitable.

I am somewhat puzzled at how much hatred is foisted on the unions from so many blue collar workers on this forum and how little is directed at big business, bankers and wall street for all of the ruin they caused in the past. Our housing market still has not recovered, and it isn't because the unions are demanding too much to build a house. My stock holding are a joke still.

Idiots walk among us in every shape a form, and to me, it is a very small minded person who thinks a few idiots are a true representation of any group.

In MN, it matters not if your plumber, electrition, carpenter is union or not. What does matter is they be licensed, bonded and insured. We have union shops and non-union shops. Most residential carpentry is nu.

What has bothered me alot about the union bashing posts is the lack of respect for those who fought to form unions and push for a fair and safe work place. I would venture that any person on this forum in an hourly job, trade, driver or manufacturing position would not be making the wage the are if not for unions. And stop and think a moment as to why they were needed at all. I had family members beaten by Mpls goon squads for having the gaul to ask for and strike for a fair living wage and safe work place. Had it not been for unions, who knows what could have happened. This was common place nation wide. Workers had no rights and were considered less than human for years. If not for unions, I know I would not be able to command the wage I currently get for my work nor would my wife for nursing. And the safety measures, I doubt the business's would have invoked them on there own. Do you think the coal mine owners gave a damn about miners getting hurt? How about the iron miners and workers. My father in law has asbestosis from working as plumber.. I can assure you the shop was not the one pushing for safety measures.

There is no question that many unions went too far in both wage demands and benefits, caused in large part to the history of labor getting the short end of everything,but most have come to realize that both sides have a stake in the game, and the business owners have come to realize they cannot afford to short the help because they are the ones who are doing the work to make the company profitable.

I am somewhat puzzled at how much hatred is foisted on the unions from so many blue collar workers on this forum and how little is directed at big business, bankers and wall street for all of the ruin they caused in the past. Our housing market still has not recovered, and it isn't because the unions are demanding too much to build a house. My stock holding are a joke still.

Idiots walk among us in every shape a form, and to me, it is a very small minded person who thinks a few idiots are a true representation of any group.

Look past your nose Regards

Right on the money. Most people that hate the unions are probably business owners that don't want to pay the workers a good wage so they can stuff the money in their own pockets. they value the product being produced more than the people producing it.

In MN, it matters not if your plumber, electrician, carpenter is union or not. What does matter is they be licensed, bonded and insured. We have union shops and non-union shops. Most residential carpentry is nu.

What has bothered me alot about the union bashing posts is the lack of respect for those who fought to form unions and push for a fair and safe work place. I would venture that any person on this forum in an hourly job, trade, driver or manufacturing position would not be making the wage the are if not for unions. And stop and think a moment as to why they were needed at all. I had family members beaten by Mpls goon squads for having the gaul to ask for and strike for a fair living wage and safe work place. Had it not been for unions, who knows what could have happened. This was common place nation wide. Workers had no rights and were considered less than human for years. If not for unions, I know I would not be able to command the wage I currently get for my work nor would my wife for nursing. And the safety measures, I doubt the business's would have invoked them on there own. Do you think the coal mine owners gave a damn about miners getting hurt? How about the iron miners and workers. My father in law has asbestosis from working as plumber.. I can assure you the shop was not the one pushing for safety measures.

There is no question that many unions went too far in both wage demands and benefits, caused in large part to the history of labor getting the short end of everything,but most have come to realize that both sides have a stake in the game, and the business owners have come to realize they cannot afford to short the help because they are the ones who are doing the work to make the company profitable.

I am somewhat puzzled at how much hatred is foisted on the unions from so many blue collar workers on this forum and how little is directed at big business, bankers and wall street for all of the ruin they caused in the past. Our housing market still has not recovered, and it isn't because the unions are demanding too much to build a house. My stock holding are a joke still.

Idiots walk among us in every shape a form, and to me, it is a very small minded person who thinks a few idiots are a true representation of any group.

Look past your nose Regards

Very astute post, Chuck. Thank you.

JS

ďDonít wave your phony patriotism in MY face! If you really love America, open your wallet and hire an American kid to build what you buy. Doug Fraser (paraphrased) 1980Real Americans buy American.

Murral, that's one extremely asinine thing to say. You have very little credibility on most issues because of dumb statements like that.

You obviously work in a totally different industry than I do. I am only speaking about my industry, didn't mean to lump all industries in there. I have seen it time after time in my industry where the owner wants to cut wages and benefits to "stay competetive", yet claim record profits to their stock holders. How's this for caring for the people working for you? A person gets injured doing the work you pay them to do and they are restricted from their normal job duties. The empoyer claims that they have no jobs in the plant that falls under their restrictions. So they send them home. the workers compensation law states that you must be off for 7 consecutive calendar days to receive workers compensation. so now the employer doesn't have anything that falls under the injured worker's restrictions for 6 days. Miraculously on the 7th calendar day, they find something for the injured worker to do that fits their restrictions. They bring them in to work for 4 hours, because the work rules state that the employee gets 4 hours guaranteed pay if they come in. they bring them in and have them sit at the front gate counting vehicles in and out of the parking lot for 4 hours. They worked 4 hours during the 7 consecutive days off, so now they only get paid the 4 hours they actually worked. 7 days starts over again. Tell me why unions are not needed to protect people and how the employers care about the people. BRAVO SIERRA!!!

Counter-point: the guy who claims injury, gets worker's comp, drags it out, and then gets caught golfing when he had a "debilitating injury". Employer tries to fire him and the union steps in to keep his job.

It can go both ways.... There are jerks in every field, on both sides of the line.

No union with any real leadership would even try to fight that termination. that is fraud and is a prosecuteable offense under the law. I have seen people go to jail for what you described.