tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post2562755961123645324..comments2016-03-09T11:32:05.283-05:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: Interesting TimesJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-25541078342052112652010-03-25T19:35:55.646-04:002010-03-25T19:35:55.646-04:00James wrote: “Unfortunately, one can&#39;t make a ...James wrote: “<b>Unfortunately, one can&#39;t make a lot of money off of only 1-2 products a year, so we&#39;re not going to see such a model adopted widely any time soon.</b>”<br /><br />Well, this is how <em>real</em> businesses run: They determine what the market can bear. Then they size that part of the business accordingly. If that business isn’t self-sustaining by itself, they diversify.<br /><br />That’s what SJG does.<br /><br />It seems it is hard for many people to remember that Wizards itself isn’t a RPG company either. The majority of their profit doesn’t come from RPGs. They don’t <em>need</em> to put out as many RPG products each year as they do. They obviously think their current strategy is the way to make the most of their RPG line.<br /><br />Maybe it is; maybe it isn’t. All I know is that I buy more SJG products than Wizards. I’ve only bought one Wizards product since 2002ish.Robert Fisherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-48552110841692967732010-03-25T09:38:01.551-04:002010-03-25T09:38:01.551-04:00Incidentally, why do some people consider a system...<i>Incidentally, why do some people consider a system to be dead if there are few new releases? Do you really need a stack of new sourcebooks each year to justify the existence of a game system? I tend to feel that a system is still alive and kicking so long as people are playing it.</i><br /><br>Many gamers are, first and foremost, game <i>consumers</i> rather than players. The measure of a game is whether they can keep buying more stuff to read rather than actually playing it. Me, I often prefer games that are &quot;dead,&quot; because it means I can be left in peace to do whatever I want with the game rather than feel any compunction to keep up with the latest releases for it.James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-58169605234637110432010-03-25T09:35:58.040-04:002010-03-25T09:35:58.040-04:00To be honest, I&#39;d be happy to see other RPG pu...<i>To be honest, I&#39;d be happy to see other RPG publishers follow the lead of SJ Games and release only 1-2 new books each year.</i><br /><br>Yes, I feel rather similarly, to be honest. Unfortunately, one can&#39;t make a lot of money off of only 1-2 products a year, so we&#39;re not going to see such a model adopted widely any time soon. A pity.James Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69715723325222450512010-03-24T16:43:26.903-04:002010-03-24T16:43:26.903-04:00GURPS is the one system I always wanted to play, b...GURPS is the one system I always wanted to play, but never did.<br /><br />I did add to SJG&#39;s bottom line over the years by buying their supplement books and re-using the data for other games.jfruserhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01002178940479903025noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66921939227529544212010-03-22T17:06:07.385-04:002010-03-22T17:06:07.385-04:00The first thing that I think is interesting about ...The first thing that I think is interesting about SJG is that their current cash cow may not be an RPG, but it is built upon the RPG hobby.<br /><br />While printing your own PDFs may have disadvantages to “print without demand” or POD, a PDF—by its very nature—is generally <em>meant</em> to be printed. PDF <em>is</em> the “low-end” of POD. The disadvantages of PDF when not printed are, IMHO, completely missing the point.<br /><br />(Although, I’m optimistic that my iPad may somewhat change that picture. We’ll see.)<br /><br />I think SJG is one of the smartest RPG companies around, and they’ll still be putting food on the table when D&amp;D changes hands again. They aren’t trying to be an RPG company but a game company. They’re embracing electronic books rather than running from them. They don’t put out new editions of their RPG just to boost “core book” sales. They don’t go overboard on the supplements.<br /><br />(I keep wondering whether I’ll ever play GURPS again. Can it be played light enough for my current tastes? Will I at some point want its extra weight again? I keep wishing there really was a “light equivalent to GURPS”.)Robert Fisherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43630111492263952832010-03-22T00:22:10.151-04:002010-03-22T00:22:10.151-04:00My long comment seems to have been eaten. Ouch. Sh...My long comment seems to have been eaten. Ouch. Short form:<br /><br />@Steven Marsh: I don&#39;t think GURPS is &quot;dead&quot;, whatever that means, but I do think that the lack of paper product leads to a lower profile in my FLGS, which leads to fewer new players. Personally, I have dramatically reduced the SJG portion of my gaming budget due to a personal dislike of pdfs without paper, but I realize that the market demands what it does, SJG is the most solid business in the industry, and so my hobby is no longer supportable by professional companies in the ways I would prefer. This is not a criticism, but an observation that the world has moved on without me and that I need to stick to hobby companies, who can more readily fulfill my needs (though I do still purchase the occasional SJG product), and locally-produced material. This increased reliance on the locally-produced material is, in fact, part of my own understanding of what the OSR means, since it is reminiscent of my early gaming days, when we house-ruled most everything, made our own adventures, and so on.faoladhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66524749262998521592010-03-21T22:43:30.549-04:002010-03-21T22:43:30.549-04:00Perhaps I&#39;m biased (since I&#39;m the e23 Mana...Perhaps I&#39;m biased (since I&#39;m the e23 Manager and all), but I&#39;m truly amazed that a game line that&#39;s had 1,791 pages of new material released last year could be considered &quot;dead&quot; by anyone. (That&#39;s the equivalent of almost 14 of the 128-page paper books we used to release in the old days.)<br /><br />Is the only criterion of whether a game line is living or dead the number of paper products released for it? If we released -- I don&#39;t know -- 20,000 pages of professionally researched, playtested, and edited material for <b><i>GURPS</i></b>, all of it via PDF, would it still be considered dead? (Conversely, if we started offering all those new PDFs via a POD service, would the system suddenly be considered &quot;alive&quot; again, because there would now dozens of new paper products released in a year?)<br /><br />Speaking strictly as a fan, I&#39;ve been thrilled with <b><i>GURPS</i></b> the past few years. There&#39;s been a diversity in products and ideas the likes of which I haven&#39;t seen in almost two decades. And since I do the bulk of my reading on a computer (and soon -- I predict -- an iPad), the existence of many of those products solely in electronic format is an asset, not a liability.Steven Marshhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06600178337262614567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-85078520544002429922010-03-21T09:35:40.210-04:002010-03-21T09:35:40.210-04:00Personally I think the reason GURPS feels like a d...Personally I think the reason GURPS feels like a dead system, is that it used to be a rules set for which a steady stream of support books were published and I always met people who played it.<br /><br />Now, it&#39;s expensive hardcovers, and they are republishing &quot;core&quot; books and have almost stopped publishing anything not related to basic stuff. I also meet fewer people who play the game.<br /><br />In comparison I think OD&amp;D feels more alive. <br /><br />It&#39;s a very subjective evaluation, I know. :)Andreas Davourhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-45019283084313777472010-03-21T09:05:04.517-04:002010-03-21T09:05:04.517-04:00@Rob Conley: There is the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy li...@Rob Conley: There is the GURPS Dungeon Fantasy line in PDF and POD. It&#39;s up to about 11 releases now with 2 or 3 more expected this year. My group has had a lot of fun with it.Jonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13334546953441558366noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88209400961989947812010-03-21T06:39:05.709-04:002010-03-21T06:39:05.709-04:00@Rob Conley: I don&#39;t think GURPS is overwhelmi...@Rob Conley: I don&#39;t think GURPS is overwhelming at all. I can teach someone to play GURPS as easily as I could teach them D&amp;D. The main challenge GURPS has is that it doesn&#39;t make assumptions for you. You have to decide what sort of game you want out of it, and then start building it. Your idea of the themed corebooks is interesting, but let&#39;s remember that it didn&#39;t work for WEG and the D6 System.Doug Wallhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06497140550892192807noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1691615042982236282010-03-20T23:04:36.747-04:002010-03-20T23:04:36.747-04:00Incidentally, why do some people consider a system...Incidentally, why do some people consider a system to be dead if there are few new releases? Do you really need a stack of new sourcebooks each year to justify the existence of a game system? I tend to feel that a system is still alive and kicking so long as people are playing it.Ianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06156995293439922576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-88074325384904726672010-03-20T23:01:03.772-04:002010-03-20T23:01:03.772-04:00To be honest, I&#39;d be happy to see other RPG pu...To be honest, I&#39;d be happy to see other RPG publishers follow the lead of SJ Games and release only 1-2 new books each year. One of the things that impresses me about GURPS 4e has been the high quality of the books that have been released in the past 2-3 years. The release schedule has definitely slowed, but the quality of the stuff released has been exceptional. Although I prefer quality to quantity, I&#39;m not sure that it&#39;s possible to build a sustainable business model out of that philosophy in the current economic climate.Ianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06156995293439922576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-74219669973330705812010-03-20T20:46:44.651-04:002010-03-20T20:46:44.651-04:00You can also see the PDF sales rankings.
http://e2...You can also see the PDF sales rankings.<br />http://e23.sjgames.com/hot.cgi etc.<br />which might be useful in comparison.Gibbering Ghoulhttp://openid.aol.com/gibberingghoulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-73560537504596974232010-03-20T18:54:29.566-04:002010-03-20T18:54:29.566-04:00I do consider GURPS to be dead. SJ is also one of ...I do consider GURPS to be dead. SJ is also one of the few persons in this business I&#39;d take business advice from.Andreas Davourhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17170806742393291962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-75424900232886829382010-03-20T17:03:03.210-04:002010-03-20T17:03:03.210-04:00GURPS is fine, 4th edition is a much improved refi...GURPS is fine, 4th edition is a much improved refinement over 3rd edition as I&#39;ve played GURPS since 1987.<br /><br />Nevertheless, SJ Games is one of those rarities in the hobby: a fiscally-responsible entity. Kudos to Steve Jackson. On the other hand, it means he will go where the money is.<br /><br />In addition, with all the 3rd edition sourcebooks and pdf products, what more does one need to play? The pen and paper RPG hobby is niche at best, dying a tortuous death at worse. At least GURPS is updated and supported in its own way (pdfs) by a company that can afford to do it (thanks to Munchkin).Charleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06896827625856001223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-69882283066570325952010-03-20T16:36:12.807-04:002010-03-20T16:36:12.807-04:00@Jay: And so I have done (with Psionics Institutes...@Jay: And so I have done (with Psionics Institutes, one of the GURPS Traveller pdfs). It&#39;s a pain in the rear, and depending on one&#39;s printer might not be cheap, either. Obviously, POD copies might be even more expensive, but they&#39;re also generally more durable than diy booklets, don&#39;t have staples (which damage other books they are stored next to on the shelves), have spines that can be read, and so on.<br /><br />I realize that some of these complaints are idiosyncratic to me, but they are still my complaints. I prefer to have the option to buy my books already made.faoladhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-64494450520356316482010-03-20T14:09:33.188-04:002010-03-20T14:09:33.188-04:00@faoladh, depending on the page count of the PDFs,...@faoladh, depending on the page count of the PDFs, you can make yourself some nice <a href="http://bookletcreator.com/" rel="nofollow">booklets</a>. You&#39;ll also need to find yourself a big-ass stapler and a printer that can do double sided sheets without becoming too time/labor intensive. Might have to break a bigger book into smaller ones, but I&#39;ve done it and it works great!<br /><br />@John, I think Brandon may have picked up on the fact that your profile still links to the old website.Jayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07997164906328234122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-12986872316528102762010-03-20T09:40:51.169-04:002010-03-20T09:40:51.169-04:00I think that we will continue to see GURPS hardcov...I think that we will continue to see GURPS hardcovers for at least a few years, albeit at a reduced rate of publication. GURPS Vorkorsigan was recently released, and editing on the GURPS Low-Tech hardcover has just finished. In addition Ken Hite is currently working on the forthcoming GURPS Horror hardcover, and there is a fairly good chance that it will be released in the latter half of 2010 (depending upon the vagaries of production schedules). Interestingly, a number of GURPS hardcovers that have fallen out of print have just been re-released as softcovers (GURPS Ultra-Tech, GURPS Fantasy, GURPS Space, et al). It&#39;s probably too early to know if this is the start of a move back to the softcover market in a larger way though. However, a couple of the most successful PDF releases for GURPS have also recently been released in softcover. Interesting times.Ianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06156995293439922576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-49116365200546832512010-03-20T03:20:08.423-04:002010-03-20T03:20:08.423-04:00I&#39;ve been a GURPS fan since I playtested GURPS...I&#39;ve been a GURPS fan since I playtested GURPS Cyberpunk. I own hundreds of third edition supplements for it, going all the way back to Horseclans, and nearly all of the fourth edition hardcovers that matter to me (I will never pay money for Banestorm, I&#39;m not that interested in Vorkosigan, and I couldn&#39;t find a copy of Infinite Worlds before it was out of print). The problem I&#39;m having with the new model is that not enough of the pdf supplements are available as POD physical books. I don&#39;t trust pdfs, find them cumbersome to use in actual gaming circumstances, and I don&#39;t always have my laptop with me when gaming anyway. I realize that this makes me a dinosaur, but it does mean that I haven&#39;t purchased nearly as much SJG product in the last 5 years as I have in the past.<br /><br />In my opinion, and that of the formerly-GURPS-oriented group I regularly play with, the mistake SJG made was to release the books in hardcover only. That made the price point too high for many people who otherwise would have changed over. Now, they aren&#39;t releasing enough of the books in POD format. Ah, well, at least I still own all of my old FGU games (and they are still available!), and there are some new games which are fun being produced.faoladhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03691952430041394614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-43963099214838040742010-03-19T20:18:26.660-04:002010-03-19T20:18:26.660-04:00Evil Hat is another company that goes to considera...Evil Hat is another company that goes to considerable effort to open it&#39;s books, and explain the problems facing a small publisher these days. Which is effectively all rpg publishers when compared to the mainstream industry. Books which are runaway successes in our small pond would be utter failures outside it.<br /><br />And I don&#39;t think GURPS is in decline. They are just recognising that it is more profitable to make the shift to ebooks, especially for the &quot;worldbooks&quot; (with exceptions that might have appeal outside the hobby, such as <i>GURPS Vorkosigan</i>). Board and cardgames require physical components, which are expensive to print, ship, and warehouse for limited (but steady) return after an initial surge of sales to the faithful. RPGs don&#39;t. Since the initial costs are the same, further savings can be made by moving digital.<br /><br />Core books will probably still be printed (as will the exceptional books), but I see an overall increasing shift to PDF releases with either POD or small print runs of &quot;deluxe&quot; hardcopy editions becoming the norm in the industry and not anything to comment on.<br /><br />It is interesting to see how this strategy compares to, say, FFG&#39;s <i>Warhammer</i> strategy where the components of the game are of vital importance, and WoTC&#39;s strict anti-pdf policy.Reverance Pavanehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01217657347160811310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81259700962357218132010-03-19T20:17:20.776-04:002010-03-19T20:17:20.776-04:00I&#39;ll note that GURPS 3rd Ed. was a complete ga...I&#39;ll note that GURPS 3rd Ed. was a complete game in a single paperback volume (yes, I&#39;ll grant it had supplements from here to forever, I own a lot of them). GURPS 4th Ed. is two hardcovers, and thus more than twice as much. So I&#39;m not surprised by some of the analysis of pricing that other people have brought up. <a href="http://sandboxofdoom.blogspot.com/2010/03/cold-hard-facts.html" rel="nofollow">I&#39;ve made a similar price observation on my own blog.</a>Victor Raymondhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05928494560036528653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-17957269856270224712010-03-19T20:07:49.316-04:002010-03-19T20:07:49.316-04:00@Brandon: Yes, I have moved to:
www.bravehalfling....@Brandon: Yes, I have moved to:<br />www.bravehalfling.com. :)John Adamshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16019288193878283384noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-66999944416018139602010-03-19T19:57:51.510-04:002010-03-19T19:57:51.510-04:00SJG has always been a Game company, and has always...SJG has always been a <em>Game</em> company, and has always been one that focuses on its cash cow. Many companies fall into what is called the 80-20 split where 80% of revenue comes from 1 product line and the other 20% from other product lines. In fact, it is a marketing term.<br /><br />It isn&#39;t a wise strategy in long term as shifts in the market can cause things to crumble for many companies who are 80-20. But SJG has been 80-20 with many lines in the past and has endured due to flexibility and creativity. Car Wars was a cash cow. Ogre was the cash cow that started the company. Now Munchkin is the cash cow.<br /><br />My only hope is that they have another one down the pipeline.Christian Lindkehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12381310217234123318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6449158134984648462010-03-19T19:00:59.383-04:002010-03-19T19:00:59.383-04:00&quot;Munchkin now accounts for 80% of the company...&quot;Munchkin now accounts for 80% of the company&#39;s revenues&quot;<br /><br />Damn, that makes me sad somehow. Like, really sad.Will Mistrettahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81193851029324294332010-03-19T18:25:23.469-04:002010-03-19T18:25:23.469-04:00&quot;And I no longer think of SJG as an RPG compa...&quot;And I no longer think of SJG as an RPG company.&quot;<br /><br />I doubt that Steve Jackson himself ever thought of Steve Jackson Games as being an RPG company. Over the years he has had much success selling Ogre/G.E.V., and then Car Wars, and then GURPS, and then Illuminati: New World Order, and now Munchkin. And he has always sold various types of games, and that will never change.Aaron W. Thornehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09265357352225836802noreply@blogger.com