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Originally posted by JBryan:By all means investigate and I hope all relevant information is released. At the end of the day, there will be nothing there. Just as there is, now, no evidence of any wrong doing no matter how hard the Democrats try to spin things.[/b]

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Better to light one small candle than to curse the %$@#! darkness.

Originally posted by George061875:DT, why don't you go back to the Congressional record about 5-6 years and see who was using this tactic then. You might be surprised, but I doubt kind of doubt it. [/b]

The stuff this speechmaker produces have been presented predominantly by one side of the aisle. Did the other side have boilerplate language in the past (and present)? Sure. Did they hysterically prey on emotions with visions of seniors taking their dogs medicine or babies starving? Nope.

Quote:

Originally posted by George061875:I suspect you already know, but like so many others you figure it was needed and justified then -- but is not now. Not sure I follow that logic since to me a politician is a politician. But if it makes sense to you, perhaps you can explain it to someone like me who feels all of them should be treated the same.[/b]

If you feel that all of them should be treated the same, then why aren't you presenting articles about Daschle (or others of that political bent) who has the authority to get things done in the legislature? You only seem to strike out at Bush-Cheney in stark constrast to what you have said.

I personally believe that some politicians are bigger crooks than others and favor those who are less likely to steal my money to make themselves look good or, at least, more likely to steal less.

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Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell...

In America, fraud is punishable by law. Bad business decisions are not.

If what Cheney supposedly did was fraud, he should be punished. If the CEO of a company is informed by his accountants that what he is doing is accepted accounting practice, is this fraud? No,it isn't.

I suspect that when all the smoke clears, business practices will change because of shareholder demand, but there will be few people in jail. And those people will have been shown to have committed crimes under existing law.

Derick
3000 Post Club Member
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 3290
Loc: New York

George,

Ok, I'll tell you what I think...

The investigation into President Bush's business dealing was performed by people who worked for his father. That is not, in my estimation, a fair and impartial investigation. The investigation should be reopened. I'm also TICKED big time that President Bush got one of those "special people" low-interest loans. The same loans he now wants banned.

Cheney's refusal to turn over documentation in the interest of national security is b*llsh*t. All documentation should be turned over, at the very least, to a special panel that would not reveal whatever "classified" information they supposedly contain.

I'm 100% with the president on the War on Terror, I am not completely with him on many other issues. To be perfectly candid, Democrats, Republicans, liberals and conservatives, all have their heads up their butts. Every once in a while they come up for air and have a lucid thought. Bush is thinking clearly on the War on Terror. He is NOT thinking correctly on corporate reform. I'll tell you who is thinking clearly, Congressman Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

Now I'm going to beat-up the conservatives... Last night I heard Sean Hannity smack down Congressman Sanders on statements he made regarding cleaning up corporate America. Sanders said that more money has been lost in the American economy by corporate executives axing American workers and sending jobs to Mexico, India, China, etc... than by Enron, Worldcom, scandals. Hannity immediately came back, almost word for word, with a statement made by a forum member. Hannity said something to the effect of "You want to put more rules and regulations on the wealth makers of America when we have the greatest free-market economy in the world?"

Sure, it's very easy for Mr. 'I don't have, need or want a brain' Hannity to sit there with his cushy job and $4,000,000 a year salary and say "lay off workers, who cares?". Sanders, however, is out there and knows the devastation caused by job losses and benefit/ pension cuts. Sanders is a good American. Hannity is a rich jackass who doesn't give a sh*t about anyone but himself.

And before this gets the hair on anyone's neck up, I don't care how much Hannity makes. That's not the point. The point is that he is aloof and doesn't want to see the reality of life outside his gated community.

One last point I'll smack the Republicans for... why were they so quick to jump on the "we need new laws" bandwagon to prevent corporate corruption when there are already laws in place? If they simply enforced the already existing laws, we'd have a special CEO jail that serves tea at 4 and finest Beluga Caviar.

It astonishes me how the same people who say that hate crime laws are unnecessary because we already have laws in place, can do a 180 and propose laws on top of laws for corporate executives. I mean it's fine by me, but I'm all for watching CEO's pound out license plates, but I'm also for hate crime laws.

Back to Hannity, a true capitalist pig. How anyone could find it perfectly acceptable for corporate executives to line their pockets after laying off American workers and sending their jobs to Mexico/wherever is beyond me. And how ANYONE can defend this, and it has been defended on this forum, is beyond me. President's Clinton lies and promiscuity pales in comparison.

Derick

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Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats.

Originally posted by DT:The stuff this speechmaker produces have been presented predominantly by one side of the aisle. Did the other side have boilerplate language in the past (and present)? Sure. Did they hysterically prey on emotions with visions of seniors taking their dogs medicine or babies starving? Nope. .[/b]

Perhaps that is because those who they hoped to reach do not react to the plight of seniors or starving babies. I certainly would not consider this a good thing about who they were talking to.

Quote:

If you feel that all of them should be treated the same, then why aren't you presenting articles about Daschle (or others of that political bent) who has the authority to get things done in the legislature? You only seem to strike out at Bush-Cheney in stark constrast to what you have said.[/b]

Neither do you see me comment about the GOP Congressional leaders. I prefer to comment on those who have the real power to act, not those whose only power comes from their ability to react.

Originally posted by George061875:Perhaps that is because those who they hoped to reach do not react to the plight of seniors or starving babies. I certainly would not consider this a good thing about who they were talking to. [/b]

Please George, I would expect better from you than this shameless demagoguery. Democrats care about these people and Republicans don't. Doesn't quite fit in with your usual "they are all whores and crooks" rhetoric. Try and maintain a modicum of intellectual honesty.

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Neither do you see me comment about the GOP Congressional leaders. I prefer to comment on those who have the real power to act, not those whose only power comes from their ability to react.[/b]

Awfully convenient wouldn't you say? As if Congress as a coequal branch of government has no power over our lives. See above.

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Better to light one small candle than to curse the %$@#! darkness.

[QUOTE]Neither do you see me comment about the GOP Congressional leaders. I prefer to comment on those who have the real power to act, not those whose only power comes from their ability to react.[/b]

Awfully convenient wouldn't you say? As if Congress as a coequal branch of government has no power over our lives. See above.[/b]

Well, no. The Congress and the Courts may be co-equal, but both are more in a reactive mode to the other branches than the Executive. It seems quite obvious by the way the three branches work.

Of course, if you all think the Majority/Minority leaders in the two houses are co-equal to the President and can set policies, develop regulations, appoint high ranking officials or can do any of the other things the President can do in running this country, then fine, feel free to have at them. I just do not see them a shaving anywhere near the power of the President.

I am open to changing my mind though when the next appointee of a Congressional Leader issues orders which take away my freedom in some area.

This is the distinction you use to let Daschle, et al off the hook? Come on George, that is mighty thin. When Congress passes laws it is up to the Executive Branch through its various agencies and departments to promulgate regulations and carry out those laws. That is not exactly non-reactive. Congress has been systematically stripping us of our rights for years.

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Better to light one small candle than to curse the %$@#! darkness.

Originally posted by JBryan:This is the distinction you use to let Daschle, et al off the hook? Come on George, that is mighty thin. When Congress passes laws it is up to the Executive Branch through its various agencies and departments to promulgate regulations and carry out those laws. That is not exactly non-reactive. Congress has been systematically stripping us of our rights for years.[/b]

No JBryan, it is the distinction I make to let Hastert, Armey and Delay off the hook!