Peppi has been eating and drinking fairly well on his own. We gave him some CC last night, just to be sure. He ate a big pile of veggies this morning, and a Critter Berry. We're also continuing with the Polycitra and shilintong. He seems alert, so I'm hoping this means he will recover even more quickly than last time. Of course we are also giving him Metacam.

The stone was huge. Dr. Voss gave it to us because it looks exactly the same composition as the old stone, which was already analyzed. This thing is about the size of a chick pea. I'll take a picture of it and post it soon, so you can see. I can't believe it got so big in only six weeks! I'm dreading that at this rate something else will form, but we're hoping all the stuff we're giving him will prevent it, and if not that, at least slow the growth of another one.

Thanks again for all the well wishes--they are always very appreciated!

Peppi is back in with Chester in their usual cage. He hasn't regained the weight he lost since his first surgery, but has remained steady at around 1075 to 1100 grams. We plan to get him in for an x-ray next week to see if anything new has formed. He's seemed very happy and energetic, so I think having that thing out of there really helped. I'll just have to keep my fingers crossed that another one doesn't appear despite all the stuff we're trying.

Hi, thanks for asking about Peppi. I haven't been on the boards much the past few days. We found out on Wednesday with an x-ray that another stone is already forming in Peppi's bladder, less than 3 weeks after his second surgery. We're both feeling really down about this because at this point it seems like the stones are a death sentence for him, and he's living on borrowed time.

Our vet has been posting on VIN and hasn't gotten any advice past what we're already doing. Peppi's getting his tablet of shilintong daily (half in the morning and evening), Polycitra which we decided to try to up the dose to 0.2 CC instead of 1.5 to see if it will make a difference, Critter Berries, careful management of diet, Metacam to help with pain, etc., but they don't seem to be helping. We have kept lowering the amount of pellets we feed, and now we're down to giving about 10 or so pellets per dish in Chester and Peppi's cage. After the second surgery our vet said we could try eliminating them, but Peppi loves them so much and screams for them in the afternoon and I feel like completely getting rid of all of them would lower his quality of life in the happiness department. Now that he's forming another stone so fast, the vet thinks it probably isn't the pellets or really diet but that Peppi's older age is causing his body to not process and/or eliminate calcium properly any more.

When Sully passed that big stone, did it just happen pretty much spontaneously? Was he on Sub Qs at all, or was his bladder expressed? The stone(s) (it looks like it may be two "smaller" stones next to each other) look kind of similar in size to the one he passed.

It just sucks because he seems so normal and healthy otherwise, and I hate thinking about putting an animal to sleep. I have never had to do it before, and the pigs we have now are the first animals I've had since I was about 13. I wish we could just keep removing the stones and giving him more and more time, but it's hard to know whether that is something we would be doing for him or for ourselves. We don't plan any more surgeries as it seems that he will just form stone after stone, and I don't want to stress him out. I just want him to be as strong and happy as he can be for as long as he can, and hope that some of the stuff we're doing will slow this thing down somehow. I have always felt very badly for people here dealing with bladder stones or any difficult problems with their pigs, but only now that we're experiencing it first hand can I truly understand how frustrating and sad it can really be.

Also quick question. We used to give .15 cc Metacam every other day for Peppi's arthritis when he weighed 1250 grams. Now his new weight has steadily been 1050-1075, and we're giving Metacam daily. I know we should lower the dose. What would anyone recommend? I did the math before to figure out the first dose, but I'm not sure if it's better to use the "rat dose" the other dose or what? Plus, Im not entirely confident with my math skills. After surgery the amount the label from the vet said to give was .2 cc, which I thought seemed too high.

I don't want to sound cavalier with Metacam, or any drug, but we have given quite a bit more than this, even, for acute postsurgical or post-dental work pain. I hope Mum sees this thread, because I think she uses 0.15cc Metacam daily for some of her pigs, which I think are in Peppi's weight range. I'll shut up now so she can get it straight.

Bottom line is I'm not sure you necessarily need to lower it.

Best wishes to Peppi and to you. I'm hopeful the stones are small and he can pass them.

Does anyone know if there is such a thing as a veterinary muscle relaxant and if so, might it help Peppi and other stone pigs pass small stones themselves?