The bad....
Youngstown State at only 73.48%
Furman at only 77.76%
Princeton at only 43.96% with that stadium?
UMass at 68.60%
UNI at 68.12%
Those are bad numbers for good teams. :(

The ugly...

Colgate - 3,493 (34.17%)
UT Martin - 4,118 (54.91%)
Towson - 4,592 (41.01%) I think this is a 30,000 student school
Idaho State - 7,435 (61.96%) not a bad number but what else is there to do in Pocatello, ID?

BTW, they need to come up with a new capacity calculation at some places....

App has approximately 16,000 actual seats...but routinely draws over 20,000. There is a large hill that some stand/sit on when the weather is nice and plenty of other standing room near the fieldhouse.

Fordham

December 11th, 2006, 01:43 PM

Interestings stuff - thanks for the link. 4 things:

1. I don't know what's up with Colgate. Our numbers stink but they're still above Colgate's and they were in the thick of it this year after last year's championship run.

2. What would Lafayette's numbers be w/out the big final home game?

3. Princeton's is kind of ugly but it's not far off from the rest of the Ivies in terms of capacity %. What may be surprising is that they opted to build a stadium of that capacity given the overall commitment to the sport that they and their brethren have.

4. I'd love to hear some bullets from other teams as to what your schools do to increase gameday attendance. Anything special?

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 01:43 PM

App has approximately 16,000 actual seats...but routinely draws over 20,000. There is a large hill that some stand/sit on when the weather is nice and plenty of other standing room near the fieldhouse.
If you sell tix, however many you can sell should be your capacity. Surely there must be codes that have a limit. That is your capacity IMO.

Fordham

December 11th, 2006, 01:44 PM

App has approximately 16,000 actual seats...but routinely draws over 20,000. There is a large hill that some stand/sit on when the weather is nice and plenty of other standing room near the fieldhouse.
Ah, interesting. So depending on the size of the hill you guys may actually be around 50% capacity or less then, huh? ;)

The Dude

December 11th, 2006, 01:48 PM

You may think that Furman at 77.76% capacity is bad, but look at it another way. Our average attendance was 12,500 and that's five times our enrollment (2,500). Pretty good in my book.

appheel

December 11th, 2006, 01:49 PM

Actually, ten times your enrollment would be 25,000, but good point anyway.

The Dude

December 11th, 2006, 01:50 PM

Actually, ten times your enrollment would be 25,000, but good point anyway.

I caught that just as I posted. Good thing I don't do math for a living. xlolx

youwouldno

December 11th, 2006, 01:51 PM

Furman's attendance normally would have gotten a boost from the GSU game but obviously that game was not as important as in the past.

appheel

December 11th, 2006, 01:52 PM

;) I'm relieved your livelihood doesn't depend on your math ability.

About ASU, even when there are very few people on the hill (like Sat, for instance) we are still over 16,000 because of the way students pack in like sardines.

ncguitarplyr

December 11th, 2006, 01:53 PM

yeah if we did the numbers by percentage of enrollment i wonder what it would look like

FunkyV

December 11th, 2006, 01:55 PM

According to the NCAA site, we finished third in average attendance and second in total attendance for '06.

1. Montana 203,403 9 games 22,600 97.49% capacity

2. Delaware 152,777 7 games 21,825 99.20% capacity

3. Appalachian 184,911 9 games 20,546 123.40% capacity

Other SoCon teams averages and their national ranking,

8. Geo Southern 15,612

12 Citadel 14,599

20 Furman 12,442

42. Western 8,805

45 Wofford 8,834

52 Chatt. 7,482

60 Elon 6671

Others of note,

47 Coastal 8134, 111.24% capacity

11 JMU 15,133 108.09% capacity

32 Jacksonville St 10,444 69.63% capacity

72 Samford 5,320 79.41% capacity

Copied from MMB

also,

If you sell tix, however many you can sell should be your capacity. Surely there must be codes that have a limit. That is your capacity IMO.

No, if you sell tickets, your attendence should be how many you sell. When JMU, UNH, ASU sells more than their stadium can hold why say they only had 16k (or whatever capasity is) at the game?

TheBisonator

December 11th, 2006, 02:00 PM

NDSU broke the season average attendance record this year with an average of 16,377. That's about 85 percent capacity if you use the actual Fargodome capacity number of 19,287 and not the old figure of 18,700.

We're hoping to start selling out every game in the next couple years. NDSU football is on a huge meteoric rise in North Dakota, and people in this state have adopted them as their favorite sports team.

TheBisonator

December 11th, 2006, 02:06 PM

I also like seeing fellow GWFC member Southern Utah increasing their attendance this year by almost 2,000 from last year. They averaged 5,222 this season.

No what APP needs to do is to come up with a way to add some more permanent seats.
True, but I don't want to see the hill go. Add on top of the away side, and fill in the hole between the away side and the field house. Leave the hill there if at all possible. Maybe even out some seats above the hill on the flat sidewalk.

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 03:25 PM

When JMU, UNH, ASU sells more than their stadium can hold why say they only had 16k (or whatever capasity is) at the game?
I'm not saying the attendance number is wrong, the capacity number is. If you sell a ticket and that person physically fits inside the stadium, they are a part of the capacity. The only way you can exceed capacity is if you turn people away from the game because they do not fit. It's like the old "give 110%" saying. You cannot give more than 100%.

Appaholic

December 11th, 2006, 03:30 PM

True, but I don't want to see the hill go. Add on top of the away side, and fill in the hole between the away side and the field house. Leave the hill there if at all possible. Maybe even out some seats above the hill on the flat sidewalk.

I dread the day the hill is removed and I agree that our first option would be to increase capacity on visitors side. I believe the hill adds to the environment of the game....it would be a shame to turn into permanent seats. BTW, if we are going to compete with big boys, I personally find it embarrassing we have no permanent restroom facilities on the visitors side. The portajohns need to go.....move them to Raley parking lot for tailgating.......

Tribe4SF

December 11th, 2006, 03:35 PM

Suffering through our worst season since 1982, the Tribe still drew 10,645, or 86.8% of capacity.:hurray:

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 03:38 PM

I dread the day the hill is removed and I agree that our first option would be to increase capacity on visitors side. I believe the hill adds to the environment of the game....it would be a shame to turn into permanent seats.
FWIW, UVA went from 35,000 to 65,000 over 2-3 additions but made sure to leave their hill intact. It absolutely adds atmosphere to their stadium.

This is because they didn't take into account the temporary endzone seating that they put in every year. The actual capacity of the stadium with those seats is about 16,000 I believe. Still... we need to get more seating in the stadium!! A lot of people go home without tickets!

Those look like the top 5 by enrollment vs. attendence...if I didn't miss a higher one...

Lafayette would place 6th...not bad...although without the Lehigh home game our average would drop by a couple thousand (if my math is correct...)

appfan2008

December 11th, 2006, 03:53 PM

there is no way to calculate a capacity at KBS because they would never turn anyone away and I believe your capacity to be how many seats you have duh!

james_lawfirm

December 11th, 2006, 03:57 PM

If you sell tix, however many you can sell should be your capacity. Surely there must be codes that have a limit. That is your capacity IMO.

Capacity = # of seats.
I know of no code limiting # of people that can stand around outside. What's to burn?

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 03:57 PM

I believe your capacity to be how many seats you have duh!
Seats, schmeats. People you can fit in your stadium = capacity in my book.

lizrdgizrd

December 11th, 2006, 03:59 PM

Seats, schmeats. People you can fit in your stadium = capacity in my book.
How do you calculate the amount of people you can fit into a stadium then? I've been in several stadiums with alot of free room. You could probably fit 30K at Elon's stadium if everyone stands right next to each other, maybe more.

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 04:01 PM

Capacity = # of seats.
I know of no code limiting # of people that can stand around outside. What's to burn?
My guess is that there are safety codes for people inside a stadium, whether they are in seats or not. If they are outside the stadium, they are not in attendance.

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 04:05 PM

BTW, I'm not blaming the schools. There must be a method by which capacity is determined, but IMO that method is faulty when you have 120% capacity. To only count "seats" is bogus if it is customary to sell tickets to a hill.

tarmac

December 11th, 2006, 04:10 PM

"I dread the day the hill is removed and I agree that our first option would be to increase capacity on the xxxxxxx EAST side."

OL FU

December 11th, 2006, 04:14 PM

I think actual attendance is probably the best measurement when grading that component of a game. Capacity percentage is neither a postive or negative unless you are trying to to measure whether a school needs to build a bigger facility or if the school was a little over optimistic in the past or if you are looking at the extremes ( a shool with a 10,000 seat stadium that averages 2500 people) . Furman's attendance is good for its size and surrounding competition. It is difficult to measure the impact of school size (2600 students) and a Clemson 25 miles away from Paladin stadium versus a Montana with 13,000 students and little surrounding competition. (I know Boise or Idaho or somebody is cloe by but then we argue state names:rolleyes: )

The point is that I would just take the numbers and say hurray for Montana being as strong as it is in attendance.

I think 89 is just bored. :eek:

OL FU

December 11th, 2006, 04:15 PM

BTW, I'm not blaming the schools. There must be a method by which capacity is determined, but IMO that method is faulty when you have 120% capacity. To only count "seats" is bogus if it is customary to sell tickets to a hill.

I think you are proving that capacity is a meaningless number:nod:

appfan2008

December 11th, 2006, 04:16 PM

There is no code at KBS for the number of people allowed in the stadium premises so we must go with the number of seats, 89Hen

thmst30

December 11th, 2006, 04:19 PM

FWIW, UVA went from 35,000 to 65,000 over 2-3 additions but made sure to leave their hill intact. It absolutely adds atmosphere to their stadium.

http://www.thesabre.com/sabreimages/scottstadium.jpg
Yea thats what I had in mind if we had to add onto that end.

89Hen

December 11th, 2006, 04:21 PM

I think you are proving that capacity is a meaningless number:nod:
:nod: :nod: :nod:

Pard4Life

December 11th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Interestings stuff - thanks for the link. 4 things:

1. I don't know what's up with Colgate. Our numbers stink but they're still above Colgate's and they were in the thick of it this year after last year's championship run.

2. What would Lafayette's numbers be w/out the big final home game?

3. Princeton's is kind of ugly but it's not far off from the rest of the Ivies in terms of capacity %. What may be surprising is that they opted to build a stadium of that capacity given the overall commitment to the sport that they and their brethren have.

4. I'd love to hear some bullets from other teams as to what your schools do to increase gameday attendance. Anything special?

Just subtract the Lehigh total (15,000) from the total and divide by 4... whatever that is... I'm too lazy.

Good thing we had that monsoon game vs. Hofstra or our percent of capacity would have been up around 150%! :nod: xlolx xlolx

Truthfully, I don't know if there is a maximum number of tickets that UNH would sell. Through the grape vine I had heard 10K being the limit during the playoffs last year. Well, this year's games with UMass and JMU proved that, at least during the regular season, that UNH would sell more than 10K! Realistically, there's got to be some limit that I hope we can determine next year!! :p

One factor that skews the figures somewhat for UNH is that seats were added during the season. Approximately 1K seats were added in the end zone. Obviously, that NCAA table can't handle the complexity of changing capacity during the season.

OTOH 89, I think some credit is deserved because of people who are willing to stand on the track or sit on a hill to watch the game. :bow: :bow: :bow: My bottom line though is that significantly more people are attending UNH football games than three years ago!!! :nod: :nod:

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 09:36 AM

Thing is, you could have "capacity" to increse several times as you figure out that you can squeeze a few more in each time.
That's fine, then the capacity is increased. Yes, it may be splitting hairs, but you cannot exceed capacity.

ca·pac·i·ty - The maximum amount that can be contained

SoCon48

December 12th, 2006, 09:56 AM

That's fine, then the capacity is increased. Yes, it may be splitting hairs, but you cannot exceed capacity.

ca·pac·i·ty - The maximum amount that can be contained

Fire marshals would strongly disagree with you.

NoCoDanny

December 12th, 2006, 09:57 AM

Our season was a case study in a program doing everything possible to alienate a fan base. I'm surprised we had as much attendance as we did. :bawling:

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 10:32 AM

Fire marshals would strongly disagree with you.
I mentioned that earlier. If there are codes as to how many people you are allowed to put inside your stadium, whether seated or standing, that is your capacity and you still cannot exceed that number.

Can't speak highly of the attendance figures, but with few local opponents available to draw interest and a spartan fan experience that only a Northeastern fan probably could appreciate, it's largely limited to student turnout.

Fordham

December 12th, 2006, 11:39 AM

DFW - do you guys charge students for admission? If so, how much? <we do ... $5>

AmsterBison

December 12th, 2006, 11:51 AM

I'm with 89Hen... you shouldn't be able to exceed 100% capacity. If you do, then it's time to adjust the capacity figure up.

OL FU

December 12th, 2006, 11:58 AM

I'm with 89Hen... you shouldn't be able to exceed 100% capacity. If you do, then it's time to adjust the capacity figure up.

OR change the nomenclature to seating capacity;)

TheValleyRaider

December 12th, 2006, 12:10 PM

1. I don't know what's up with Colgate. Our numbers stink but they're still above Colgate's and they were in the thick of it this year after last year's championship run.

Umm, we went 4-7, not exactly in the thick of things this year. Plus, Championship run was 3 years ago, now suddenly a lifetime for some people...
1. It was a rough season, and when you play in the middle of nowhere, that hurts attendance.
2. Weather was also a factor, I think. Ugly, rainy days for a couple of games. Not monsoon stuff, but not exactly what people like to sit out in either.
3. Student involvement at the games is at best weak, at worst apathetic.
4. It's too big. The stadium, that is. We get NO visiting attendance. 10,000+ seat stadium with a way-too-big visitors side that is never even close to getting numbers too big to count before the game.

lizrdgizrd

December 12th, 2006, 12:27 PM

I'd still like to see how you're planning on calculating the capacity of a stadium that includes areas with no planned seating? How do you count a space for a person?

DFW HOYA

December 12th, 2006, 01:14 PM

DFW - do you guys charge students for admission? If so, how much? <we do ... $5>

I don't believe so. One problem is that students are shoe-horned in to the corner of the home stands and when they don't see any seats (regardless if there are empty seats elsewhere) they tend to leave.

Maybe I'm being critical of the unnamed and unfinished MSF. Any PL fans want to compare the visitor experience at Georgetown vs. other PL sites?

Cobblestone

December 12th, 2006, 01:20 PM

Rhode Island 39.64% (avg. %) 3171 (avg. attendance)

The horror.... the...horror.

MplsBison

December 12th, 2006, 01:42 PM

Is that the worst for a state flagship that plays football?

I think so.

What the hell happened to RI? Did they start out late?

I mean you're only a couple hours from Boston and Hartford, maybe 4 from NYC, and Providence is not a small town.

You're the flagship of an entire state. Even Maine and South Dakota State can get 10k to a game.

Vermont and Alaska are the only ones who are worse as Burlington and Fairbanks don't have a football team.

ErkPeterson

December 12th, 2006, 02:01 PM

I have no problem with a hill at a stadium, but don't think it adds any atmosphere. I disagree, did you make the trip to the Boro this year?

andy7171

December 12th, 2006, 02:47 PM

First, congrats to Montana for topping the list again this year. :bow: Maybe one day we will expand the Tub and catch you, but that's another discussion for another day.

The bad....
Youngstown State at only 73.48%
Furman at only 77.76%
Princeton at only 43.96% with that stadium?
UMass at 68.60%
UNI at 68.12%
Those are bad numbers for good teams. :(

The ugly...

Colgate - 3,493 (34.17%)
UT Martin - 4,118 (54.91%)
Towson - 4,592 (41.01%) I think this is a 30,000 student school
Idaho State - 7,435 (61.96%) not a bad number but what else is there to do in Pocatello, ID?

BTW, they need to come up with a new capacity calculation at some places....

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/2006/Internet/attendance/IAA_AVGATTENDANCE.pdf
Not Quite. Last I checked Towson was 18K. It's still ugly. And quite embarrassing.

OL FU

December 12th, 2006, 03:01 PM

Since the Citadel boys have not shown up, I'll do this for them

For a school of 2000 or so cadets, an average attendance of 14,599 is darn good.

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 03:12 PM

OR change the nomenclature to seating capacity;)
Golly, I feel like I'm harping on this point, but seating is a silly number if you regularly sell tickets for a hill or area with no seats. It's a decision the school makes to either make more seats or make more people sit on blankets.

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 03:16 PM

I'd still like to see how you're planning on calculating the capacity of a stadium that includes areas with no planned seating? How do you count a space for a person?
I'm not planning on calculating it; it's up to the school. :p Seriously, there are either safety codes that dictate how many people a school is allowed to put in the stadium, or there's a number that is the max. IOW, at a school that has GA tickets, take the record attendance and THAT is the capacity. When you set a new record, that becomes the capacity next year. This would prevent from teams averaging 110-120% year after year.

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 03:24 PM

Not Quite. Last I checked Towson was 18K. It's still ugly. And quite embarrassing.
Sorry bout that. For some reason I thought TU was huge. I don't know if it is common, but I have a couple friends who are TU grads and they go to many more Maryland games than TU. :nono: on them.

OL FU

December 12th, 2006, 03:32 PM

Golly, I feel like I'm harping on this point, but seating is a silly number if you regularly sell tickets for a hill or area with no seats. It's a decision the school makes to either make more seats or make more people sit on blankets.

It is either seating capacity or nothing. Capacity is really only a meaningful number if the stadium is configured in such a way that capacity is limited by a finite and definable number. If bank sitting is available then it is going to be difficult to define it. Under the broader definition Furman's capacity is much higher than 16,000. So Furman's capacity is 20,000 or 25,000 or 30,000, what does it matter, we are going to average 12-13,000

mistersykes

December 12th, 2006, 03:34 PM

Since the Citadel boys have not shown up, I'll do this for them

For a school of 2000 or so cadets, an average attendance of 14,599 is darn good.

That is really good, whether or not its in Charleston. Kudos to the cadets! I also thought it was cool how many people NC A&T had considering their abysmal season. That's what I like to see!:thumbsup:

MplsBison

December 12th, 2006, 03:42 PM

Since the Citadel boys have not shown up, I'll do this for them

For a school of 2000 or so cadets, an average attendance of 14,599 is darn good.

You don't have to be a Cadet to go to the game, do you?

It's basically Charleston's team, no?

89Hen

December 12th, 2006, 03:43 PM

If bank sitting is available then it is going to be difficult to define it.
I disagree. What is the most people you've ever had in your stadium? There's you capacity. If you exceed that in 2008 when I come to town, that will be your new capacity in 2009.

BTW, have the guest room ready OL FU. Blukeys and I are staying at your house. :D

OL FU

December 12th, 2006, 03:55 PM

You don't have to be a Cadet to go to the game, do you?

It's basically Charleston's team, no?

South Carolina has something like 250 ( I jest) football playing schools. Typcially, if a South Carolinian is not affiliated with a school, they are Gamecocks or Tigers. Occasionally, you would find an non-affiliated fan that roots for The Citadel or Furman. The short answer is no. I am sure there are Charleston people there but for the most part it would be cadets and alums and visiting teams fans. I doubt seriously they are Charleston team.

Leo-Pard

December 12th, 2006, 03:56 PM

It is interesting that they can calculate the attendance figures for Lafayette. As I recall, the students can just roll into any game they please (except Lehigh) by using their student ID. I graduated in 2002, so i doubt they changed the policy since then, there is usually plenty of seats available during the regular season.

OL FU

December 12th, 2006, 03:57 PM

I disagree. What is the most people you've ever had in your stadium? There's you capacity. If you exceed that in 2008 when I come to town, that will be your new capacity in 2009.

BTW, have the guest room ready OL FU. Blukeys and I are staying at your house. :D

Fido, will enjoy the company. :smiley_wi

Our capacity would be measured by a New Kids on the Block Concert:eek:

th0m

December 12th, 2006, 04:04 PM

It is interesting that they can calculate the attendance figures for Lafayette. As I recall, the students can just roll into any game they please (except Lehigh) by using their student ID. I graduated in 2002, so i doubt they changed the policy since then, there is usually plenty of seats available during the regular season.

I think this is the case for most schools. I think they hand-count the students let in with their ID (I'm pretty sure they do this at JMU).

Leo-Pard

December 12th, 2006, 04:05 PM

I think this is the case for most schools. I think they hand-count the students let in with their ID (I'm pretty sure they do this at JMU).
I dunno... perhaps they hand count but i never saw anyone trying to keep track of stuff like that when i went to school.

UNH_Alum_In_CT

December 12th, 2006, 04:44 PM

I am ever so grateful that UNH has the ability to allow a lot of SRO folks. And I'm thankful that so many folks are willing to stand on the track, stand on the concrete walkway above the home stands, sit/stand on the hill by the tennis courts, etc. If we were limited to the finite number of seats, our resources would be significantly less. And proving to potential donors that a market really does exist.

Some of us can't compete in the total attendance race, so how about throwing us a bone and letting us play in the percent of capacity game! :p :D :nod:

Cocky

December 12th, 2006, 05:33 PM

We had a little over 10,000 avg in a terrible year. The fans showed but the team didn't.

ngineer

December 12th, 2006, 05:54 PM

You may think that Furman at 77.76% capacity is bad, but look at it another way. Our average attendance was 12,500 and that's five times our enrollment (2,500). Pretty good in my book.

Very good point. Some of us 'smaller' schools have decent size stadiums in order to accomodate the occasional big rivalry game. Colgate has the drawback of being small AND being in the middle of nowhere. At least Fordham has a couple million within a few miles, if they have nothing to do some Saturday afternoon.;)

I don't believe so. One problem is that students are shoe-horned in to the corner of the home stands and when they don't see any seats (regardless if there are empty seats elsewhere) they tend to leave.

Maybe I'm being critical of the unnamed and unfinished MSF. Any PL fans want to compare the visitor experience at Georgetown vs. other PL sites?

I've been to all the PL stadiums for games, except Colgate's. Hope to make it next year. I was pleased with G'towns facility to the extent we could see the action good. Lehigh had the visitor's side 75% full--more than on the home side IMO. It will get better with the rest room situation, but better than two years ago with the portajohns. However, now that Lafayette has upgraded, Gtown is at the bottom. Fordham and Bucknell have more substantial stands as opposed to wooden bleachers, plus facilities and concessions much, much better.