I have noticed that an AM player can register for 2 or 3 tourneys for the price of one pro entry. Therefore, all the tourneys fill up with ams.

Does this seem right? As a pro I would have to have about $1500.00 to spend in the beginning of Feb. to get into the tourneys I want to play. I don't mean to bitch but the ams only have to have a couple hundred bucks and the tourneys are full. I understand the way AO registration worked and to me that puts a lot more work on the TD's. Also, if I had $1500.00 just laying around it would be put into my IRA and tourney payment would happen as the tourneys got closer.

My Question: Is there a better way to register? I'm going to throw something out... Can we have pro registration before am registration? Maybe 1 month for just pros to register, then 1 month before the tourney have everyone else register?

I don't know how to exactly phrase what I'm trying to say, nor do I have the best idea. I'm just throwing it out there so maybe tourney registration could be a little easier on my wallet. I'm not rich like Gomez, oh wait he plays AM. I guess I could play more tourneys and get sponsored...oh wait there all full of AMS

I think that the tourneys should have a reserved set-list for the pro's to fill and then the am's could register and fill the tourney out.
It seems that the tourneys in the past catered to the Pro's, now it seems that the Am's get the cake and Pro's get the crumbs.... (B tiers and lower)

we don't think they are too high....( that's me, most of the time)....
it would be nice to have a few spots left reserved for Pro's.... that way we can manage to get the funds and not miss rent, or a car payment in the process of trying to *race* for a tourney spot.

There's gonna have to be two or more courses per tourney to satisfy the demand of players(especially if you only want 4 per tee pad). Or have more "Pro only" or "Am only" tourneys. I think the PDGA should have more Pro only tourneys that they actually pump some sinificant added cash into, so a Pro can feel like a Professional, like in the PGA. The name "PGA" gets the big money sponserships all over the country. The PDGA needs to be more invloved like that. Because it's ridiculus that a "Professional" can't afford to get into a tourney on time. And that isn't meant to be a knock on red or any other Pro getting by in this economy.

It's not just the money. Like I said, I have the money. I just can't see forking out that much at the beginning of the year to "race" ams for a spot in the tourney. I mean Elberton is full I guess, I went to register and it said my order was a back order. What if something happens 6 months from now and I can't play? I stand to lose a lot more than an AM. Also, since there are less pros it is hard at the last minute to find someone to go all the way up there and take my spot. I'm not sure how to make it work for everyone but I bet if we all put our heads together we can come up with something.

Honestly, do we want disc golf to be Team Georgia in the pro division and the rest ams? No offense Keith, just an example.

Hell, I remember 4 or5 years ago when I first started playing preregistration was non-existent. Shouldn't all parts of this sport grow with the sport? Or should we just scam like Vern said and explode the heads of the TD's when they have to figure that mess out?

I have noticed that an AM player can register for 2 or 3 tourneys for the price of one pro entry. Therefore, all the tourneys fill up with ams.

Does this seem right? As a pro I would have to have about $1500.00 to spend in the beginning of Feb. to get into the tourneys I want to play. I don't mean to bitch but the ams only have to have a couple hundred bucks and the tourneys are full. I understand the way AO registration worked and to me that puts a lot more work on the TD's. Also, if I had $1500.00 just laying around it would be put into my IRA and tourney payment would happen as the tourneys got closer.

My Question: Is there a better way to register? I'm going to throw something out... Can we have pro registration before am registration? Maybe 1 month for just pros to register, then 1 month before the tourney have everyone else register?

I don't know how to exactly phrase what I'm trying to say, nor do I have the best idea. I'm just throwing it out there so maybe tourney registration could be a little easier on my wallet. I'm not rich like Gomez, oh wait he plays AM. I guess I could play more tourneys and get sponsored...oh wait there all full of AMS

I know that I'll catch crap for asking, because I'm sure you're not talking me but....
Which tournaments are you talking about?
My prices are only $10 or $15 different for all divisions except the Recreational divisions.
For Lake Russell there is only 10 of the 72 players in REC.
#1 had 13, #2 has 11

My thoughts are live and learn, I have offered all types of incentives over the 12 years of running events for PROS which have not ever panned out, including offering $500 extra at any GSSS event that had 35 total pros(although the incentive almost worked for the FCO 2 last year.)
If anyone wants to pay me to play in a tournament I run, I don't care what division they are in, because I treat EVERY PLAYER the same.
Pretty much every PRO player in this area has heard of the GSSS by now by their friends, this website, my incessant talking and posting The first post was in Sept of last year, I have made over 300 posts about it as well as several hundred more from others, so there should be no surprises.
In the past 10 years TD's and the PDGA (with holding spots for touring pros) have learned that pros will NOT sign up early, TD's would hold(or HAVE to hold spots) then the spots are left open when the pros didn't signup and there were always people wanting to play that were AMS.

If you weren't upset about Lake Russell, or if you weren't upset at me for anything else, sorry for the post

red wrote: What if something happens 6 months from now and I can't play?

You always have until the WED before the Event to get your money back(which it says on the site)

Honestly, do we want disc golf to be Team Georgia in the pro division and the rest ams? No offense Keith, just an example.

What does this mean? I have no idea honestly what you are trying to say.

Hell, I remember 4 or5 years ago when I first started playing preregistration was non-existent. Shouldn't all parts of this sport grow with the sport? Or should we just scam like Vern said and explode the heads of the TD's when they have to figure that mess out?

How is Pre registration not part of the growth you are speaking of?
There are already MANY, MANY more events and courses than 4-5 years ago.
With more courses and more events being run that are selling out, what part of the "growth" are you talking about?

I think that all red is asking for is that a certain percentage of the field be reserved for pros up to some fixed time before the tournament at which time any unfilled pro slots could go to ams. I'm pretty sure that the squirrel events did this at some point in the past. The am slots would fill and if the pro slots didn't fill (by a couple of weeks before the tournament) then the slots would go to ams on the waiting list or whatever. Maybe I'm mistaken that this has been tried, but I think that this is what he's asking about.

Red, this idea is easiest when the tournament is played at two courses so there are two separate fields (one pro and one am). Otherwise, who is to say how many slots should be reserved for pros? Pnut pointed out that the obvious solution is pro only tournaments. But, even with pro only tournaments, the sport will continue to grow and pros will do what ams have been doing the past several years. They'll register early if they want to play in a particular tournament. Will this mean that they're going to come up with the cash sooner? Yes, of course. But it doesn't cost anything extra to register early (unless you count the tiny amount of interest you'd earn by holding onto the money for a couple of months). Yes, I understand that it's not always easy to come up with the money all at once for all the tournaments you want to play in. In that case you just have to make choices as we all do.

just wondering if anyone saw a better way to do it? i know this is growth, i know people are doing their best, and I was just wondering if there was an easier way. It's kind of a no win situation. Someone's gonna bitch about whatever way it is done huh? I just hear a lot of pros saying they would have played if they got in, and it is disappointing sometimes to see the pro fields of these tourneys barely break double digits in attendance.

You could always quit and join the PDGA (Play Disc Golf America). Im sure your daddy/life partner Chuck will welcome you with open arms. There's no chance of any of his tournaments filling. Or you could just convince all the lazy pros to get off there rumps and sign up early. Most of them still live with there mommies so I'm sure they can get an advance on allowances.

Keep in mind it looks better on paper to finish 16th (out of 16). If you get more to sign up those 30th-35th place finishes will start racking up.

I normally wouldn't have a problem with not being able to make tournaments as I could ride my bike instead.... but alas!!.... I'm waiting for freaking parts to arrive from Italy.....100 bucks and 5 weeks for a relay switch?

Actually, Jay is kinda right about the pros. Historically, the pros ARE the last to sign up and do drag their feet when it comes to tournament entry. I don't know why, but it happens at just about every tournament. My mom was nice enough to advance me 10 months allowance so that I could sign up for the Deerlick, AO, and Elberton tournaments. Thanks mom!!!

You guys are crazy. Rand is right, you don't rob Peter to pay Paul. Ams should have nothing to do with the pro payout.

I think one reason pros wait is to see what happens in other tourneys. You want to make sure you're getting the best bang for your buck. Also, as a pro one would like to play a tourney with more than just two or three pro cards. Which is why you have to see who is playing what and where will you get the most return on your investment. From some of your comments earlier I might have to explain that. Apparently ams have no concept of money. The interpretations of my first post were loose at best.

The most return on your investment... how much is the entire trip going to cost vs. how much I stand to bring home in winnings.

Anyway, you uys have fun in Elberton... sorry you first timers don't get to see the true elberton.

I think he was talking about chuck taking all of the extra folks for his tournament on the same weekend.... but..... this whole thread is about Pro's procrastinating on sign ups for tournaments.... or poor people not being able to come up with the money for the tourneys and cry (me)

red wrote:Also, as a pro one would like to play a tourney with more than just two or three pro cards. Which is why you have to see who is playing what and where will you get the most return on your investment.

OK, I understand your position now (I think), but if pros wait to register for a tournament until they see some critical mass of pros registering for the tournament, then I see a potential problem. How does the process get started? It seems like there's a chain reaction waiting to happen, but there's nothing to spark it.

Come to think of it, I'd actually think that when a tournament has a certain amount of added cash for the pros, then it'd be better to have a SMALL number of pros playing (so that added cash is split among fewer people). Wouldn't that give a larger return on your investment?

cmueller wrote:Come to think of it, I'd actually think that when a tournament has a certain amount of added cash for the pros, then it'd be better to have a SMALL number of pros playing (so that added cash is split among fewer people). Wouldn't that give a larger return on your investment?

depends on the amount of pro's that enter the tournament... 500 bucks added cash doesn't matter if there was a chance of 20 pro's signing up at 75-100 bucks each....
so it depends on how much added cash there is... there will never be 2,500 bucks added to the pot if there's only 3-5 pro's signed up

After reading through this more than once (my feeble brain), it seems red has a catch-22. He wants to wait and see which/how many pro's register, but isn't happy when he waits and then the tourney is full. Kinda like "which was first the chicken or the egg" debate.
Usually a good guideline is to see how many people in your division played last year, most of the people play the same tourney's every year. Don

That is a good idea. However, Elberton has changed a lot. I have been there every year since I started playing, and Lane guaranteed some of us spots no matter what. He knew we showed up on Thurs or Fri before the tourney and didn't leave until Tues after the tourney. I know I have never done anything more than call Lane and confirm that I would be there and he would put me in the tourney. There was a small group of us that have done this for a couple of years.

Things change and I understand that. It still doesn't make sense to me that a tourney can be sold out when there are still three more spots open. (bday or no bday)(false countdown or no false countdown)!

Obviously, with the number of people who did not get into this tourney that wanted to, there is a flaw in the system. Since no one can take constructive criticism and look at what is going on and try to improve it then there is no reason for anyone else to give their suggestion. Have fun

red wrote: I know I have never done anything more than call Lane and confirm that I would be there and he would put me in the tourney. There was a small group of us that have done this for a couple of years.

And you'd receive a bucket with car cleaner and a sponge for your CTP. At least you have a car unlike Chim when we won that great prize.

That is a good idea. However, Elberton has changed a lot. I have been there every year since I started playing, and Lane guaranteed some of us spots no matter what. He knew we showed up on Thurs or Fri before the tourney and didn't leave until Tues after the tourney. I know I have never done anything more than call Lane and confirm that I would be there and he would put me in the tourney. There was a small group of us that have done this for a couple of years.

Things change and I understand that. It still doesn't make sense to me that a tourney can be sold out when there are still three more spots open. (bday or no bday)(false countdown or no false countdown)!

Obviously, with the number of people who did not get into this tourney that wanted to, there is a flaw in the system. Since no one can take constructive criticism and look at what is going on and try to improve it then there is no reason for anyone else to give their suggestion. Have fun

Red,
The reason some TD's close a tourney with 2 or 3 spots seemingly open is that those may be promised to sponsors that have gave $100+ out of their pocket + entry fees. Also to allow for errors in counting...etc, they will always open those spots up either the day before the tourney or the day of. I know that's a PIA if you have to travel to the course, but having ran tourneys myself a clerical error can occur very easily when your looking at lots of folks. I've played PRO and AM both during my many years of playing, and i guess what i seem to ponder with your statements is this:

You want to wait and see how many pro's enter in your division, so your wanting them to put their money down while you are not willing to do the same thing. So when your desired number is hit, then you try to register and may miss out on the tourney then your not happy with that.

There's been many gripes through the years about registration, payouts and things in general people may not like about how a tourney is ran. BUT put yourself in the TD's position, no matter what you do someone is not happy and at times very vocal about it. The TD is doing everyone a big favor by running the event, but aside from some personal satisfaction in running an event they get very little in return. They deserve the benifit of the support of the disc golf players, contact the TD personally when you want to register and the open spots are just about gone. Lots of times a phone call and promise to mail the entry right then will get you in. Reserving or otherwise "restricting' registration for some group or the other is really a PIA for the TD, not to mention the griping that will create from the other players. A solution might be to have 2 tourneys, one pro and one am. But then again, that's a double load on the TD's - again more work for the weary.

My point is to work with them, you may be surprised at how far you will get with that.

That's right. No sponsors involved. Also, I haven't heard anything about the fact that I looked back at the past year at Elberton and I was in the next years tourney before I left the current year. I hate it but even though your idea is a good one it doesn't work as well as you thought it would.

Three spots were open and the first three on the waiting list should be in for regular price!!!!!!!!!

Clunk, the ctp's can be done better it's just the TD (Lane) didn't do too much with secondary action. Besides shut up.

If you want to reserve spots you announce it before you get stuck with three camp sites. Announce it in the beginning!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't some of you stop blowing it out your butts and ask the PDGA and then get back to me.

Thanks for the info clunck, i tend to avoid tourney's that i think aren't ran on what i consider the "up and up". Red - i was trying to make a few suggestions that might help you in the future, good luck.
Don

Hey RED lay off Keith man, He is only doing what's good for disc golf.
I mean dude is holding spots for ransom, Guinness idea, always remember what Keith and Greg always say "TD's make no money"
Gee sold out months in advance, he already has a title sponsor; He has sold all kinds of series sponsor ship disc and package deals, Man I hope some one is keeping track off all the money that is coming in and watching how much money is going out.
He probably wishes that no pros would sign up. That =$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the bank.

Have we seen nothing but a lack of respect in the way this guy has come in and try to run things and just mows right over anyone that speaks out against his method.

daustin wrote:Well THAT's interesting, haven't heard that one before. Interesting way to "gather" cash for the tourney!! Which tourney is that? Don

Don, Just to clarify, there IS sponsorship attached as stated below(copied from Lake Russell thread.)

Lastly for now, the part that some of you may like me for it, and some of you may hate me for it, but this type of "deal" has worked for Marshall Street, the West Virginia Open, and the USDGC, so I'd figured I'd give it a shot.

When I reserved my campsite, I reserved 3 others to use for this idea.

I have kept 3 spots "open" for Event #6 and I am offering them as a Tournament Package Deal tm

One entry($50), one campsite for Friday and Saturday nights($50), one Tsign for the Event($25), one and 1 Event disc($25) $200 total for each of the 3 spots.

The 5 people already on the waitlist will have right of first refusal on the spots(in order of the list) and by next Friday at 5PM if any Tournament Package Deal remains, I will offer them (cash only)first come-first served to the players PLAYING at Deerlick Saturday morning when I'm doing the drawing for the $100 Lake Russell giveaway. If any still remain, I will offer them up to everyone else.

If anyone wants to check the Payout numbers posted from the 1st event and the proposed payout numbers from the second event they are all right here on this message board. Over 200% payback to ams and pros, for a C-tier event that only requires 85% payback!

I have ALWAYS been upfront with EVERYTHING having to do with my events since 1996, and always will be.
I have offered all kinds of monetary incentives to the pros to get them to sign up, but if they don't, I can't force them to.

If anyone can show me where i've come close to MAKING money on any events I've run, I want you for my accountant.

By the way to the bonehead who posted earlier about the "title sponsor" he obviously hasn't read any of the threads or the programs, as the title "sponsor" is the players, by purchasing the sponsorship discs.

By the way there are PLENTY left for anyone who wishes to help out with that.
The 4 thousand dollars I've already paid out of pocket for them has only brought in at this date $1425, so to keep the added cash the same as the first 2 events that I've paid based on SELLING THE DISCS, the discs need to sell. Pretty simple economics.

If anyone else wishes to join in on the bandwagon, come on as I'm bored here at work since Greg quit, and I'll be happy to answer any of the lies or mistruths you wish to throw out there.

For everyone else that is happy to be a Disc Golfer, i'll see you all tomorrow morning!

That is a good idea. However, Elberton has changed a lot. I have been there every year since I started playing, and Lane guaranteed some of us spots no matter what. He knew we showed up on Thurs or Fri before the tourney and didn't leave until Tues after the tourney. I know I have never done anything more than call Lane and confirm that I would be there and he would put me in the tourney. There was a small group of us that have done this for a couple of years.

Keith writes in BLUE:
Again, you are talking about 3 years ago - 3 years ago, the IDGC and the 3 courses there didn't exsist, the was only a handful of PDGA events in the STATE, ERP had 9 baskets, Deerlick had 9 baskets, Lenora had crappy baskets, Fayetteville had no baskets, JP Moseley was totally different, Perkereson was not even a pipe dream, etc., etc.Things change, people move into and out of the state, some you like, some you don't.TD's have added LOTS of events (sanctioned and non-sanctioned) to the calendar. Plenty of opprtunities to play golf.TD's have added QUALITY Events to the schedule (ATL Open A-tier and USDGC qualifier).Most events in the area have been selling out in advance since I moved here 2& 1/2 years ago, so why do you think that will change?

Things change and I understand that. It still doesn't make sense to me that a tourney can be sold out when there are still three more spots open. (bday or no bday)(false countdown or no false countdown)!

I DO NOT think you understand, that's why you try to rally the troops to say Keith is F'ing us over.

Obviously, with the number of people who did not get into this tourney that wanted to, there is a flaw in the system. Since no one can take constructive criticism and look at what is going on and try to improve it then there is no reason for anyone else to give their suggestion. Have fun

There is no FLAW in the system, the system worked just fine for the people that WANTED to play AND signed up.I can take constuctive critisism fine Rob, but this isn't constructive critisism, it is an ATTACK on me because you got your way at Athens, but didn't for Lake Russell. (you think that you would have learned after Athens, that if you wish to play you need to sign up.)

When you would like to have a constuctive conversation, my phone # is available and I'll glady take your call.

daustin wrote:Thanks for the info clunck, i tend to avoid tourney's that i think aren't ran on what i consider the "up and up". Red - i was trying to make a few suggestions that might help you in the future, good luck. Don

Don, I can't believe you got sucked into jumping on the bandwagon without knowing the facts.

The whole point of Don's post was to register based on past tourney's played. 3 yrs ago I played. Last yr I played Elberton. So that basis for registering is somewhat skewed. I know some things change and I understand that.

My whole point was that nothing was posted before. I bet those tourneys announced how many spots were reserved before hand.

This is not a personal attack!!!!!!!!!!! I appreciate you letting me play in Athens!!!!!!!!!!!! Obviously, you not getting to play still bothers you!!!!!!!!!! However, to say a tourney is full when three people are trying to register and then coming back the very next day and saying, oh no it's not but to get in you have to pay more than double the entry fee and camp is WRONG!!!!!! The tourney was not full and the registration cut off date wasn't even near and I can find a spot in at least 3 different cabins. That is not a good deal.

I'm sick of this crazy mess!!!!!!!! Like I said you guys run your tourneys however you want to and please have fun doing it! If you guys can sleep at night knowing you screwed other disc golfers over then more power to you. I will run mine the way I see fit. As far as people moving here and things changing, NO SHIT! I don't know that I would give you all the credit for the other courses having more baskets and/or getting installed?!? Do what you do and do it well

daustin wrote:Thanks for the info clunck, i tend to avoid tourney's that i think aren't ran on what i consider the "up and up". Red - i was trying to make a few suggestions that might help you in the future, good luck. Don

Don, I can't believe you got sucked into jumping on the bandwagon without knowing the facts.

Keith,
You cleared up my question/point by saying that there was sponsership attached to those spots. Thus, with the sponsership attached i don't consider it anything that's unreasonable. Iv'e sponsered many tourney's through the years, and reserving a spot for a sponser that contributes $$ is just fine with me - as that's what i've asked for when i have sponsered.
I had posted several posts above that, that if someone gives $100+ out of their pocket the spot may be reserved. Just look up some in the thread 'bro, you'll see that's what i said to start with. Some other's here retored that was not the case, that's when i responed with the "up & up" thing. ) No offense, but i still think if someone gives their hard-earned cash for sponsership they should get something in return. Maybe a good group or hole to start on for the first round, maybe a good reserved parking spot...etc. You get the idea? You always have a lot of added prizes & cash in your tourney's, that's kewl. My mistake 'cause you clarified the error in what i thought i heard. I don't play a lot these days with family, work and still slowly re-habbing my shoulder to 100%.
Reserving a few spots for sponsers that may not be able to give you the $$ until the last minute is ok, and opening the spots up at the last minute works for me. Good luck with this bag of worms.
Don

The whole problem is that those three spots were reserved without any prior knowledge. We had The Countdown tm to the tourney being sold out. Next a wait list got posted. Then after a day or two after the tourney was closed and the wait list was started, three spots opened up for 200.00 bucks each. With the people on the wait list with first shot. Granted, there was stuff attached to the 200.00. (like campground fees?).

The simple fact is that it was not full when it was announced it was and there was no mention of any reserved spots being held. If I was one of the first three people on the wait, I'd be a little pissed. Fortunately, I was watching The Countdowntm

Clunck wrote:The whole problem is that those three spots were reserved without any prior knowledge. We had The Countdown tm to the tourney being sold out. Next a wait list got posted. Then after a day or two after the tourney was closed and the wait list was started, three spots opened up for 200.00 bucks each. With the people on the wait list with first shot. Granted, there was stuff attached to the 200.00. (like campground fees?).

The simple fact is that it was not full when it was announced it was and there was no mention of any reserved spots being held. If I was one of the first three people on the wait, I'd be a little pissed. Fortunately, I was watching The Countdowntm

Keith thanks for the tourney. I'm glad I got in.

If your waiting until there's 3 spots left your cutting it a little close, a little better planning maybe? Not waiting until it's almost full might work better as you have no idea what's in the mail or who may have called or dropped in on the TD and forked up the cash at any time for the last available spots. You snooze you lose, pretty simple.
Don

red wrote:As far as people moving here and things changing, NO kah-kah! I don't know that I would give you all the credit for the other courses having more baskets and/or getting installed?!? Do what you do and do it well

Back the truck up and read Rob, I NEVER said I had anything to do with any of those things, matter of fact I had NOTHING to do with any of those things, and anyone living in this area knows that as well as you do.

You just keep looking to disseminate FALSE information, which is why I have to keep coming on here to defend myself from your ATTACKING posts that have multiple mistruths in them, and your sucking in everyone to believe that I'm f'ing you over somehow because you didn't get in.

When your event is set, I will be one of the first to enter, and sponsor, as I plan my disc golf year in advance.

I was the first entry to Pro/Am Worlds when that opened up on March 17th, to make sure I didn't get shut out of that event, as the combined event will sell out.
It's called planning, give it a try sometime.

Clunck wrote:The whole problem is that those three spots were reserved without any prior knowledge. We had The Countdown tm to the tourney being sold out. Next a wait list got posted. Then after a day or two after the tourney was closed and the wait list was started, three spots opened up for 200.00 bucks each. With the people on the wait list with first shot. Granted, there was stuff attached to the 200.00. (like campground fees?).

The simple fact is that it was not full when it was announced it was and there was no mention of any reserved spots being held. If I was one of the first three people on the wait, I'd be a little pissed. Fortunately, I was watching The Countdowntm

Keith thanks for the tourney. I'm glad I got in.

As some of you are aware, GSSS #6 at Lake Russell is "SOLD OUT" More on this later.

Waitlist from PM's, calls and E-Mails in TIME AND DATE ORDER RECEIVED!

1)Will Cralle 2) James Marshall 3) Rob McElreath 4) Paul Childs

PDGA Will be updated tonight or tomorrow morning

My problem, as it turns out according to everyone was the use of "quote" marks for sold out and posting the people names in front of posting the TPD.
This was a two fold reason as people were hounding me about the waitlist, and I didn't have time to post the other info as I didn't have access to the word document at work(it was on my home computer).
Woody and Imran both can vouch for this as I had spoken to them by phone and told them I wasn't saying anything to anyone until I could post it for EVERYONE to see to be fair to all. In hindsight, with all the BS that transpired, I will going forward stick to my NO waitlist policy(I was trying to be kind as it was 5 months in advance), as no matter which way I choose someone will be pissed off.

Going forward I'll say this and you all can quote it,

If you wish to play in Event 3, 4 or 5, please signup so you don't get shut out!

Everything I do like that is always public so there can be no one suspecting anything.
By the way I also gave a complete set of Series discs away(175 dollar value) to Scott Beutjer just for knowing Lorelei's PDGA #, cuz I'm crazy like that. You never know what kind of stuff I'll do for the players at my Events unless you're there.

Yes we did the drawing before the start at the players meeting.
I had randomly numbered all the entrants from 1-71, and showed the papers to everyone at the players meeting.

With everyone there I asked for 3 people to raise their hands.
Gomez, Bob Johnson and Tim Ellis were chosen, and I asked Gomez and Bob to choose a # between 1-7, and Tim to choose forward or backward, and keep the info to themselves until I asked for it.

Gomez picked a # between 1 and 7, Bob Johnson picked a # between 1 and 7 and Tim Ellis picked forward or backward.

Gomez chose 2, Bob chose 4 and Tim chose forward.

So the winning number was 24. (the person wasn't at the Deerlick event.)

I have the list at home, but don't remember who the name was(I think Chris Pierce, but I'm not 100% sure) as I was busy with other things. If anyone who was there remembers let me know or I'll post it later when I get the list.

Anyways that person will get the $100 when I see them.

Also the players voted for the ace fund to go to the Jim Warner fund instead of rolling over to the next event.