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Topic: RPGFan's 20 Top 20 DS Games

Similar to the other topic that was made for the top 20 psp rpg's list, let's discuss the recently released top 20 ds games from the website.I am overall very pleased by this list though I would change the order of the games around a little bit. While I think TWEWY is a very awesome and innovative game, I personally wouldnt put it at number 1.

Im also a little bit disappointed that Apollo Justice was chosen over Trials and Tribulations. While Apollo Justice is technically a better "Game" and actually my 2nd favorite in the series, I dont think it compares to the masterpiece of a storyline that Trials and Tribulations delivered, it was more memorable and there was more in the way of character development. I am also surprised to see FF IV above Chrono trigger, I guess it was positioned that way because of the major update they made to the game with the new graphics and whatnot(I would argue though that they are atrociously ugly 3d models, ff7 looks better than that imo.), also the game is just very slow paced compared to it's 2d counterpart(FF IV complete collection is the definitive version of FF IV imo).

My top 5 would be: 999-PW:AA:Trials and Tribulations-Castlevania Portrait of Ruin-Chrono Trigger-Ghost Trick(this with the 1 game per series restriction). I havent played Order of Ecclesia though, so maybe I will enjoy it more than PoR(I like PoR better than SOTN though)

Not a whole lot I would change on there. I'd personally bump Order of Eclessia up a bit, but I don't think it's normal how much I love that game. I'd remove Tactics A2 from the list entirely for committing the SRPG sin of making it nigh impossible to level up alternate characters. I'd probably replace it with Rune Factory 3. And I would find a place for FFXII Revenant Wings. I really enjoyed it, shoot me.

I'd also switch around TWEWY and Devil Survivor, as I felt the latter had better gameplay and did a better job of capturing the "Trapped in an urban environment with no way out" atmosphere

« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 01:59:19 PM by Klutz64 »

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I wonder if Apollo Justice was chosen over 1-3 because 1-3 were GBA games ported to DS (making no use of DS functionality, save for yelling "objection" into the mic) and Apollo Justice in contrast used the touch screen in all the fun detective-y ways that we saw in the bonus mission of the first game. But then, other ports/remakes made the list (including FFIV, which is ... well, it was a significant change in gameplay, so I guess I can get with that).

But in terms of story and importance to the plot of the key characters, it's hands-down no-question, the end of Trials and Tribulations was phenomenal.

Were it my own personal list, TWEWY wouldn't be on it (as I didn't play it), Rhapsody would be in the top ten, 999 would be #1 without blinking an eye (holy crap 999 I love you so much forever!). I'm glad they also chose Clash of Heroes, which was a great game (that's also on Steam) ... they came to me for the writeup, and it made me feel special.

I will also say that I thought Magical Starsign was surprisingly good.

But in terms of story and importance to the plot of the key characters, it's hands-down no-question, the end of Trials and Tribulations was phenomenal. 999 would be #1 without blinking an eye (holy crap 999 I love you so much forever!).

Yeah, That Tales of Hearts threw me for a loop. Only complaint I have besides TWEWY getting #1 (only time I'll ever complain about placement is when TWEWY's involved. :P). Not that I don't think it's a good game, I just don't think it's fair to list imports. I'm also surprised Apollo Justice won out among the Phoenix Wrights. Not that I'm complaining, if anything it keeps things interesting. I hate lists that are too predictable.

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“MY NAME IS POKEY THE PENGUIN I LOVE CHESS!! IT IS LIKE BALLET ONLY WITH MORE EXPLOSIONS!”I Draw Stuff Sometimes

We discussed whether or not to include Tales of Hearts for quite some time. Ultimately, I think (if I remember correctly) we decided to go with it since we had reviewed it. [Disclaimer: My memory is not always the best.]

I'm never one to talk about what order things appeared in -- I'm mostly happy about what 'ranks' and doesnt.

I personally preferred The Last Window to Hotel Dusk (though both were excellent).

I have no problem with Apollo Justice there instead (whether it is or isn't because OUR original DS titles were Japan's GBA titles). But I loved Apollo's character and Trucy was a great sidekick (and it was nice "dropping in" on 'Nick' instead of him as the POV character). I'm actually really sad they didn't bring back the ability to look at evidence in 3D in Dual Destinies though... Godot was a fantastic prosecutor though.

Twewy (best abbrev. ever) I thought is a solid title. I loved the gameplay, but I -H-A-T-E-D- controlling two characters, AI aside, it was a pain to still monitor two at once. But as far as "fresh" ideas go, TWEWY really came out on top when it was a bit "in" to make fun of Square Enix around this time (which started the ugly chain of a million FF4 remakes, ugly ports, and cashing in on the 13 series). That being said though, I did think FF4-DS was fantastic, and I admired it more than the "upgraded 2D" versions.

In that case, I'm surprised that Sora no Kiseki SC wasn't considered for the PSP list. Whatever. You guys seem to really like Hearts. A few of my thoughts on the list:

Bowser's Inside Story is too low. I'd put that in my personal top 5. It's hilarious, the combat has good variety, and the story and set-pieces are completely bat**** insane. I'd rank it higher than... pretty much any of the SMT games you put there.

Trace Memory is not a good game. This is the Riviera of the list. The DS has several good traditional adventure games / visual novels, but that is not one of them. I have no idea why it's on the list at all, let alone 15th. I'd put Disgaea DS, Phantom Hourglass, Revenant Wings, 4 Heroes of Light, or Inazuma Eleven ahead of Trace Memory.

When it came to picking one game out of a series, you chose well. Order of Ecclesia is my favorite DS Castlevania. Unwound Future is my favorite DS Layton. HGSS is my favorite of the DS Pokeymans. V is my favorite of the DS Dragon Quests. Bowser's Inside Story is better than Partners in Time. Basically all I'm saying is that I agree with a large number of your sorta-sillly series-specific selections. Pretty much all of them other than Apollo Justice.

Where is Phantom Hourglass? I'm not saying it should be in the top ten, and I am WELL aware of the frustrating and/or bad parts of the game (**** YOU TEMPLE OF THE OCEAN KING). However, you guys gave it a 92% in your review (which was several years ago, but still) and I definitely think it's better than Trace Memory or Clash of Heroes.

Golden Sun shouldn't have been on that list. The original games are overrated as hell and Dark Dawn wasn't much better.

Bowser's Inside Story is way too low, especially in light of the many VNs that got rated over it (admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of VNs given the whole "I don't find the writing amazing enough to offset the complete and total lack of gameplay."). This should've been at least within top the 15.

Tales of Hearts, lolwut? Call me when it actually makes it outside of Japan.

VNs. Half of these should have never made the list and should make room for actual games. That said, I'd say keep Hotel Dusk, 999, Ghost Trick. Maybe not where they are but keep them on the list.

Chrono Trigger is debatable. Obviously it should be lower just by virtue of only having portability as the only meaningful change made to this particular port. The rest of the changes are the usual Squeenix cramming in that ROM Hack Supra Dungeon +1 and littering it with Swords of Infinity +1. No bonus points for the useless monster arena and terribly shoe-horned in extra ending that exists solely to do a hilariously bad job tying this game into Chrono Cross.

FFIV I'd rank lower, but not by much. The fact that it's an actual remake (although maybe not the best remake, I would still rank it a better job than either FFIII or either of the FE games got) does justify it's presence on the list, but top ten is a bit much.

Radiant Historia should've made top 3 easily, shoddy production values be dammed. It's one of the biggest game changers in JRPGs in the last decade, losing out to an Ace Attorney game is unacceptable.

DQV and Devil Survivor. I can't say anything on Devil Survivor as I haven't played it yet but I do suspect that it this weren't SMTFan it wouldn't have made top 10 let alone top 3. DQV is a port of a remake, but admittedly its also the first time it's left Japan and its a damn shame that it took so long, I have no beef with it's placement.

And TWEWY. Yeah, objectively this is probably the correct decision, but only because it has better production values than RH got.

And for notable absences. FF:4HoL, maybe Infinite Space, and either Knights in the Nightmare or Rondo of Swords or VP: Covenant of the Plume or DQVI or FE:New Mystery of the Emblem (although debatable it did receive a fanslation) or LoZ:Spirit Tracks or Pokemon Black/White. One or two of the above (man, there were a lot of mediocre and/or stranded in Japan RPGs for the DS; there's like another half a dozen games that could've made the list if they had just left Japan (yes, including ToH)).

Ninja Edit: I will say thank you for not including more than SMT:SJ for dungeon crawlers. Those fuckers were everywhere and most were mediocre as hell.