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Topic: Unborn Warmachine (Read 2000 times)

I've been fidgeting with the concept of an Unborn warmachine using the core book and the Adventure Companion but it's fallen a little short in terms of integrated weapons and armor. I think a feat chain can be built around this, so here's my first take. Critics and advice welcome.

Warmachine BasicsYou bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: UnbornBenefit: Integrated weapons you use are also considered unarmed weapons. Further, you gain the fearless I NPC quality.

Warmachine MasteryYour body was designed with battle in mind.Prerequisite: Warmachine BasicsBenefit: Whenever you wear an integrated armor, the benefits of all its upgrades are doubled. Further, you gain the fearless II NPC quality.

Warmachine SupremacyYour secured battle-mind cannot be swayed.Prerequisite: Warmachine MasteryBenefit: Whenever you fail a Will save against an ongoing effect, you are stunned while your mind fights the invasion, and you may make an additional attempt during each subsequent round, using your Base Attack Bonus if it is greater. However, Sense Motive checks you make are now untrained under all circumstances. Finally, you gain a trick.Hidden Weapon (Integrated Weapon Attack Trick): If your integrated weapon is not ready yet, you may do it as part of this attack action.

I actually really like this idea, and for all the unborn stuff I've done I've somehow managed to never consider making feats to modify integrated gear, it's not something I think about much because the benefits are a little slim and so my players that have played unborn have actually never used them- I don't think armor does anything beneficial by RAW, and weapons, if I remember right, just can't be disarmed. (Well, they both still add to cool factor, but I'm just talking about rules)

As far as the feats go, Basics is pretty open, and while it doesn't feel like it would do a lot at reading, it certainly could depending on your motivation- do you want Martial Arts to apply to it? Make it always usable in a Grapple? Use Unarmed Attack Tricks with it? What about an integrated Crossbow or Blackpowder weapon?The Fearless quality is nice for the concept, though in my experience players are able to beat Morale DCs enough to not have to worry (my players get Hesitate or Withdrawl every now and then), and when they're really likely to fail Morale checks, they tend to agree with them. That's just me though, I actually have no idea what the general consensus is on Morale...

I actually had to go back and re-read the core Armor rules to get an idea of how it'd balance, it's nice but I would worry about, say, Reinforced Rootwalker armor gaining Edged Resistance 8- I'm not quite sure what I'd want for this one, I'll try and think it over a bit... (this one is tough for me to make suggestions on, because the armor rules/upgrades I use are very much expanded)

I don't know how Supremacy is supposed to work, is the first part a penalty? Suddenly Bestow Curse, Charm Person, even Calm Emotions just about paralyze you! I figured at first it was maybe a defense against controlling/holding spells (and in that case it's a cool, cinematic thing), but there are so few of those.Then Sense Motive is always untrained, which I can kind of understand, if you're looking for a penalty, but then the result is a trick that, again, looks cool but mechanically only saves you a half action every combat, which is far worse than Quick Draw. The concept is neat, though the wording is a little funky- how are you making the integrated weapon attack to apply the trick to if it isn't already ready, something with a similar feel and a bit more power to it might be like:Hidden Weapon (Unarmed Attack Trick): You may ready an integrated weapon as part of this action, if your attack is successful, you deal that weapon's damage in addition to your unarmed damage.

But even that might be a little weak until we figure out how to rebalance the control-resistance thing away from being a penalty.

Good remarks, all of them! The reasons you mention are exactly why I decided to take a chance with this feat chain.

So, regarding Basics, my fingers slipped. I meant "natural attacks", so that you can not only apply unarmed tricks, but also natural attack-related feats and effects. I like fearless though, so I'm gonna keep it even if I agree that the mechanical effect is quite secondary (unless the character invests absolutely 0 rank in Resolve). How about it now?

I share similar feelings regarding Mastery. The goal was to make unborn comfortable into heavy armors that are, in fact, their body. So instead of upgrades, I'll stick with something closer to Armor Basics (stacking!):"While you wear integrated armor, its Defense penalty drops by 1, its ACP drops by 1, and its Speed penalty drops by 5 ft. (in all cases, minimum 0)."Thoughts?

And again I agree with your thoughts on Supremacy. I didn't think it through enough. Yeah, the idea is to prevent the character from being mind-controlled. Which makes me think: Turning might enter that description. So let me rephrase that:"Whenever you fail a Will save against an effect that would allow another character to Turn you, control your actions or read your thoughts, the attempts still fail and you are stunned for 1 round instead, while your security routines fight the invasion back. However, Sense Motive checks you make are now untrained under all circumstances. Finally, you gain a trick."I like your rewriting of the trick by the way.

Deral pretty much wrote what I would have, but with those modifications in your latest post it's a very neat feat chain. The only problem is getting enough Species Feats (which I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that these are) - though it might be a good spot to convert the Juggernaut from Eberron (have it require Basics and grant Mastery / Supremacy as you level up in it).

As a matter of fact, a few things that appear in this feat chain are inspired by the Juggernaught I devised for my Eberron conversion guide. Once this feat chain is all wrapped up, I'll certainly rewrite the master class as well.

Warmachine BasicsYou bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: UnbornBenefit: Integrated weapons you use are also considered unarmed weapons. Further, you gain the fearless I NPC quality.

Making them actually unarmed weapons mostly invites increased defenses - now unarmed resistance applies to them. They don't gain the benefit of increasing the grade of unarmed attacks, which is the main way unarmed damage bonuses are granted. I think what you might be looking for is more along the lines of "You gain the fearless I NPC quality and may use integrated weapons to perform unarmed attack tricks." While stylish, its also kind of weak overall, so you might include a trick or stance at this point in the feat chain.

It'd be nice if there was an elegant way to script "apply unarmed attack tricks and apply Martial Arts / Masters Art", without also bolstering defences against it. I like the idea of them getting boosted damage and a different attribute bonus since their built in weapons are as natural as a martial artist's fists.

I like adding the Hidden Blade trick into basics and coming up with a slightly more butch one for supremacy.

It'd be nice if there was an elegant way to script "apply unarmed attack tricks and apply Martial Arts / Masters Art", without also bolstering defences against it. I like the idea of them getting boosted damage and a different attribute bonus since their built in weapons are as natural as a martial artist's fists.

I like adding the Hidden Blade trick into basics and coming up with a slightly more butch one for supremacy.

Maybe "counts as your Unarmed Attack for feats and abilities," would do it or "for your feats and abilities?"

Warmachine BasicsYou bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: UnbornBenefit: You gain the Fearless I NPC Quality and Integrated weapons you use are also considered unarmed weapons for the purposes of Abilities, Feats and Tricks. Also, you gain a Trick.(Insert Hidden Weapon)

Warmachine BasicsYou bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: UnbornBenefit: You gain the Fearless I NPC Quality and Integrated weapons you use are also considered unarmed weapons for the purposes of Abilities, Feats and Tricks. Also, you gain a Trick.(Insert Hidden Weapon)

Easy enough to parse?

Seems a little heavy with the benefits - You get two benefits and a trick - other B/M/S is one benefit and a trick (or stance). Drop Fearless and it feels Basics-y enough.

Warmachine Basics You bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: UnbornBenefit: Your Integrated weapons are also considered unarmed weapons for the purposes of Abilities, Feats and Tricks. Also, you gain a Trick.(Insert Hidden Weapon)

Warmachine BasicsYou bear arms like second hands.Prerequisite: Unborn, Unarmed forteBenefit: Your Integrated weapons are also considered unarmed for the purpose of applying abilities, feats, and tricks. Also, you gain a trick.Hidden Weapon (Unarmed Attack Trick): You may ready one Integrated weapon as part of this action, if your attack is successful, you deal that weapon's damage in addition to your unarmed damage.

Warmachine MasteryYour body was designed with battle in mind.Prerequisite: Warmachine BasicsBenefit: While you wear Integrated armor, its Defense penalty drops by 1 and its Speed penalty drops by 5 ft. (in both cases, minimum 0). Also, you gain the fearless II NPC quality.

Warmachine SupremacyYour secured battle-mind cannot be swayed.Prerequisite: Warmachine MasteryBenefit: Whenever you fail a Will save against an effect that would allow another character to Turn you, control your actions or read your thoughts, the attempt still fails and you are stunned for 1 round instead, while your security routines fight the invasion back. However, your Sense Motive checks are now untrained under all circumstances. Finally, you gain a trick.Ghost In the Machine (Anticipate Trick): You may substitute your Tactics skill to your Sense Motive skill for this check. If you succeed, the target also loses its dodge bonus to Defense, if any.