I'm in an industry where results should be repeatable where the results would be competent and repeatable. I just don't believe Ajmal can give these results. I'm just saying this as my uneducated opinion, his action might be applicable in match situations, but ITS NOT WITHOUT REASONABLE DOUBT, so why should some bowlers be subjectable to analysis by ICC and results can't be replicated by match situations, WHEN THERE IS DOUBT, just seems like a case where everyone is equal but some are just more equal lol

Ok... So we won... Quite comfortably... Deteriorating wicket... And as I have been saying all along. Ajmal's doosra is an illegitimate throw. Doesn't not seem in bounds with the 15 degree rule, not that it might be 16 degrees but because he bends his arm likely close to 30 degrees. These are the facts deal with it.

Just because you claim something is a fact doesn't make it so. I'm more inclined to believe the experts who tested him over you, especially since, having watched him bowl, I see no problem with his action.

Ok... So we won... Quite comfortably... Deteriorating wicket... And as I have been saying all along. Ajmal's doosra is an illegitimate throw. Doesn't not seem in bounds with the 15 degree rule, not that it might be 16 degrees but because he bends his arm likely close to 30 degrees. These are the facts deal with it.

It's posts like these that really don't help reasoned debate on the issue.

Just because you claim something is a fact doesn't make it so. I'm more inclined to believe the experts who tested him over you, especially since, having watched him bowl, I see no problem with his action.

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

Well my solution would be to strap a device to the upper arm (bicep are) and forearm like an accelorometer, over an innings, that can calculate the arm angle of suspect bowlers, it may make a beep sound. Its just a suggestion, it would resolve a lot of confusion.

I think a few researchers and companies are in the process of developing such a device, though it's still in infancy at this stage.

The reason Ajmal hasn't been called back for further testing is that no-one has observed anything to suggest that he's changed from the last testing. His improved performance is down to accuracy and planning, it's not like he's started turning it at right angles. It's okay to maintain suspicion, but only with actual reasoning behind it.

I'm sure the ICC have set their own standards when testing to make sure bowlers are fine, but what standards measure these bowlers in match situations when there is doubt, no reasonable person can look at his doosra and say, "well, that's a straight arm, slightly bent".

Where is it stated that umpires MAY call a NO BALL if certain bowler sets OFF criteria whereby bowler throws the baLl. Its almost as if the bowler has free range because the umpires don't want to set off alarms to cause a scandal, that might prove the procedures followed by the ICC ineffective.

I believe the current method involves comparing the televised deliveries with those that have been tested in the lab to ensure that they are bowled with the same action.

I agree though, I think it is inadequate, and there needs to be some live equipment brought into play.

Originally Posted by kykweer.proteas

ILL say it again, let bowlers use a straight arm OR let them throw without limits. The 15 degree rule is a joke, its like saying, "yes murder is fine, if its in a painless manner, as proved in the laboratory"

here's where you and I differ quite a bit.

15 degrees is quite a small straightening. People with "conventional looking" actions often bowl close to the 15 degree limit without causing any speculation.

Then there are those with the less conventional actions that look like they're chucking but are actually working well within the legal confines.