Actually, as an Android user and Inq reader, this is kinda flawed; Symbian actually has the biggest market share worldwide; it's 1st in the States though.

http://www.gartner.com/it/page.jsp?id=1421013

This is an important distinction because if the iPhone is to be considered a competitor, you have to remember it doesn't have nearly the market penetration outside the U.S.; most other countries just see it as another phone. In addition, as much as I hate to admit it, Jobs is right: Android is on 2 dozen phones, iOS is on one. What he doesn't mention is that it couldn't survive in the market on more than one phone; no one else would put up with the nanny attitude.

That said, Android has easily posted the biggest increase in usage in recent memory. It's all in how you spin the numbers.

I should probably post this as a comment on Inq but they don't read any of that crap anyway. Again I hate to admit it but they lean heavily open-source and Linux over there (which is fine by me :D) but sometimes I question their credibility.

kennyc

10-06-2010, 03:33 PM

True. I was thinking a bit along those lines myself..

lies, damn lies and statistics!!

EowynCarter

10-06-2010, 03:45 PM

Being use on multiple phone is one of android's advantages. People are more likely to find the phone to fit them ;)
Though it's also a downfall, because it mean the dev have to take in account multiple hardware.

devilsadvocate

10-06-2010, 03:51 PM

Being use on multiple phone is one of android's advantages. People are more likely to find the phone to fit them ;)
Though it's also a downfall, because it mean the dev have to take in account multiple hardware.

This was something Jobs talks up as an advantage. It's no different than desktops and/or laptops though; Linux runs on anything, so devs either have to keep their code as generic as possible or stay up on which phone has the biggest (potential) market share. From what I'm seeing however, it's not so much the hardware causing problems as it is the version of Android being run and devs can plan for that to a degree.

EowynCarter

10-06-2010, 03:56 PM

This was something Jobs talks up as an advantage. It's no different than desktops and/or laptops though; Linux runs on anything, so devs either have to keep their code as generic as possible or stay up on which phone has the biggest (potential) market share. From what I'm seeing however, it's not so much the hardware causing problems as it is the version of Android being run and devs can plan for that to a degree.
yup.
And people buying an iPhone buy it because thy want an iPhone. Some some buy an android phone for android, but other might buy an android phone just because the have the functions / style / price they are looking for.

DMcCunney

10-06-2010, 04:20 PM

THE LATEST FIGURES from consumer peepers Nielsen have shown that the Android operating system is the most popular of the mobile pack.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1740903/android-popular-mobile
No, what the study shows is that Android has had the biggest growth over the last 6 months. That's a different thing from "most popular".

Android's growth seems to have been mostly at the expense of RIM (Blackberry), with Apple holding steady. (Though it's likely that Apple has been hit, too: they haven't lost market share, but neither have they gained. I suspect people who might otherwise have been tempted by an iPhone have been seduced by the droid side of the force. :p)

Worldwide, the leader is still Symbian.

The smartphone market is in a state of flux, and it will be curious to see where it falls out.

Nokia bought the part of Symbian it didn't own from the consortium of cell phone makers that controlled it, and has been busily making it open source. They may have been inspired by the success of their Internet Tablet line, using the Linux based Maemo platform and an open source development model. (The new Nokia N900 tablet is also a cell phone.)

After the Palm Pre has disappointing sales results, Palm put itself on the block, and was acquired by HP, which seems to have plans for Palm's Linux based WebOS.

Lots of folks have Android based devices in the pipeline. The best known is probably the Motorola Droid, which has been a smash hit, and put Moto back in the cell phone race. (There were industry rumors that Moto was looking at exiting the cell phone business after failing to come up with a successful follow up for their popular Razor line.)

Microsoft is supposed to be doing a rewrite of Windows Mobile, so we'll probably see something based on it, and Access Corp. in Japan has been pushing their Access Linux Platform to Asian hardware vendors.

And it appears that Android has some name recognition on it's own, and will be an incentive for buyers playing the "my phone is cooler than yours" game.

We'll see.
______
Dennis

Graham

10-06-2010, 04:31 PM

No, what the study shows is that Android has had the biggest growth over the last 6 months. That's a different thing from "most popular".

The way I read the stats was that Android had the largest share of sales in the US in August; so in August, at the end of the 6 month period in question, it had risen to be the most popular - in the sense that more people were buying Android in the States than any other OS.

Graham

DMcCunney

10-06-2010, 04:41 PM

The way I read the stats was that Android had the largest share of sales in the US in August; so in August, at the end of the 6 month period in question, it had risen to be the most popular - in the sense that more people were buying Android in the States than any other OS.

Graham
If you want to call it "most popular new purchase", fine. But when you toss around terms like "most popular", you have to define your terms to avoid confusion. Just calling it "most popular" could be taken to mean "commands the majority of the market", and Android is nowhere near that yet.
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-06-2010, 04:47 PM

Being use on multiple phone is one of android's advantages. People are more likely to find the phone to fit them ;)
Though it's also a downfall, because it mean the dev have to take in account multiple hardware.
Not that much of a downfall.

Android has some compelling attractions. It's free and open source, so any manufacturer can get it and use it in a device without licensing or royalty issues. It provides a highly developed base from which to start, relieving the vendor of the need to code their own OS from scratch, or license someone else's. And it's modular, so vendors include the particular modules intended to support what they want their device to do. Just doing cellphone and not doing Wifi? Fine, don't include Wifi support in the build...

And you'll have customization issues regardless of what you start from.

The biggest issue for the vendor won't be using Android - it will be differentiating their device from all of the other devices running Android.
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Dennis

Graham

10-06-2010, 06:51 PM

If you want to call it "most popular new purchase", fine. But when you toss around terms like "most popular", you have to define your terms to avoid confusion. Just calling it "most popular" could be taken to mean "commands the majority of the market", and Android is nowhere near that yet.
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Dennis

Hmm. I think you're being a little unfair. The linked article also covered the overall market share where they made it clear that Android had some way to go - in fact they led with that statistic to use it as their reference point. And they began the discussion of Android's popularity with the phrase "For new purchases though".

It does include the word National on the graphs to differentiate them from the global figures, although it could have been clearer; but then again, like most people I guess, I saw the same figures in a number of articles released at the same time and knew that they referred to the US figures anyway.

Graham

DMcCunney

10-06-2010, 07:25 PM

Hmm. I think you're being a little unfair. The linked article also covered the overall market share where they made it clear that Android had some way to go - in fact they led with that statistic to use it as their reference point. And they began the discussion of Android's popularity with the phrase "For new purchases though".
Oh, I agree. I don't disparage the article, which I thought did a good presentation of the numbers. I was reacting specifically to the MR post linking to the article. Taken out of context, it can have a different connotation than the article itself.
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Dennis

kennyc

10-06-2010, 07:51 PM

Dennis pick on me if you like but I just used the title from the article no added or spun info.

Dopedangel

10-06-2010, 11:30 PM

Their is a rumor is going on that Nokia might be in talks with Google. As they have stopped working on Symbian and Meego is not ready for production yet if they don't want to loose market share to Motorola, Samsung, HTC in the smart phone market they will have to do something quick specially for this holiday season.
And if they put their hat in the Android the OS wars will be over before they have really begun.

DMcCunney

10-07-2010, 01:22 AM

Their is a rumor is going on that Nokia might be in talks with Google. As they have stopped working on Symbian and Meego is not ready for production yet if they don't want to loose market share to Motorola, Samsung, HTC in the smart phone market they will have to do something quick specially for this holiday season.
They've made Symbian open source. That's not quite the same as "stopped working on it".

And there's no need for Nokia to talk to Google if they want to use Android. It's free, and open source, and any manufacturer can use it in any device without Google's approval.

And if they put their hat in the Android the OS wars will be over before they have really begun.
They would be indeed. I just don't see them doing so. Symbian still has a huge installed base, and Nokia has a substantial investment in it. And smartphones are a minority of the total cell phone market. Lots of devices are sold that don't need (and couldn't run) Android, MeeGo, or the like.

If they want to go with a Linux based cell phone OS, they could just use Maemo. The Nokia N900 is based on their popular Internet Tablet model, but the N900 includes cell phone capability.

Phones are fashion accessories. Users buy the one that has the features they want with a sufficient coolness factor to impress their friends. They may or may not be aware of what OS is under the hood. Folks who buy iPhones, for example, and buying the Apple brand, not iOS.

The question is what name recognition value Android has, and how much that contributes to sales of products using it.
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Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-07-2010, 03:39 AM

Phones are fashion accessories. Users buy the one that has the features they want with a sufficient coolness factor to impress their friends. They may or may not be aware of what OS is under the hood. Folks who buy iPhones, for example, and buying the Apple brand, not iOS.

I have to disagree on that as a blanket statement. iPhone users may use their phones as fashion accessories first and communications devices second (I've seen this more times than I can count), but I haven't seen that trend with Android phones. Thus far, that crowd has been made up of:

Where I work, I'm one of 2 Droid X owners. The other guy shows his off every chance he gets; I use mine in all the ways it's designed to be used, but I'm not in any hurry to go flashing it around. Let 'em get their own. The lone remaining iPhone owner knows he's outgunned and doesn't say anything to me.

Gwen Morse

10-07-2010, 06:16 AM

I have to disagree on that as a blanket statement. iPhone users may use their phones as fashion accessories first and communications devices second (I've seen this more times than I can count), but I haven't seen that trend with Android phones. Thus far, that crowd has been made up of:

Where I work, I'm one of 2 Droid X owners. The other guy shows his off every chance he gets; I use mine in all the ways it's designed to be used, but I'm not in any hurry to go flashing it around. Let 'em get their own. The lone remaining iPhone owner knows he's outgunned and doesn't say anything to me.

I've had a somewhat different experience. I work in a NOC for a cable company, which means I'm firmly in the "IT/internal support" job demographic. I'm one of 12 people in my position.

Two have iphones. One has a basic "dumbphone". The other nine of us have one Android phone or another.

When I joined the group, none of them had heard of Android. I bought a G1 and showed it around. Still no interest in Android. When the original Droid was released by Verizon, there was a stampede for Android phones (not all bought Droids however).

I'm not arrogant enough to think I had anything to do with the Android migration -- I think it was Verizon's marketing department.

I'd say folks in my group fall in the third category, except, they're not treating the phone the way a gadget-loving geek would treat it. They're not rooting the phones/installing custom firmware. Individually, they each barely touch the app store (I've asked). They seem to just use them to make calls, text, and play fancy ringtones.

I really get the impression from their comments that they're buying and using the phones for some sort of "geek-cred" accessory. It's like they've each been told to think that Real Geeks (TM) don't use iPhones, they use Android phones. So, each has run out to get the biggest, shiniest phone on their carrier of choice. Once they have them, they wander around saying "Here's my geek phone" rather than tinkering with it, like a geek would.

kennyc

10-07-2010, 07:18 AM

This is kinda interesting in the light of this topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_mobile_phones

DMcCunney

10-07-2010, 09:52 AM

I have to disagree on that as a blanket statement. iPhone users may use their phones as fashion accessories first and communications devices second (I've seen this more times than I can count), but I haven't seen that trend with Android phones. Thus far, that crowd has been made up of:

1. Early adopters,
2. employees of forward-thinking companies (and of course Motorola & Google; presumably others such as HTC)
3. technologically savvy and/or geeks.
It wasn't intended to apply to everybody. But there are hundreds of millions of cellphones in use, to the point where the landline is becoming an endangered species in some places. Most users are just that - users. They place and receive calls, do SMS, play ringtones, and possibly play games. If their phone is equipped with a camera, they probably take pictures. They may do other things, but the vast majority probably don't do more than scratch the surface of what the phone can do.

Where I work, I'm one of 2 Droid X owners. The other guy shows his off every chance he gets; I use mine in all the ways it's designed to be used, but I'm not in any hurry to go flashing it around. Let 'em get their own. The lone remaining iPhone owner knows he's outgunned and doesn't say anything to me.
The Droid is a dandy geek toy. But the appeal pretty much has to be beyond the cases you cite. It has done well enough to put Motorola back into the cellphone race, when they were rumored to be looking to exit the business. That requires more than geeks/early adopters.

One bit that isn't clear is how much name recognition Android has, and how much the fact that the phone uses Android as the OS influences a purchase decision. If two phones have similar designs and feature sets, will a user pick the Android phone because it uses Android? I suspect Android is now a factor in the purchase decision. I just don't know how big a factor it is.
______
Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-07-2010, 11:56 AM

When I joined the group, none of them had heard of Android. I bought a G1 and showed it around. Still no interest in Android. When the original Droid was released by Verizon, there was a stampede for Android phones (not all bought Droids however).

I'm not arrogant enough to think I had anything to do with the Android migration -- I think it was Verizon's marketing department.

One bit that isn't clear is how much name recognition Android has, and how much the fact that the phone uses Android as the OS influences a purchase decision. If two phones have similar designs and feature sets, will a user pick the Android phone because it uses Android? I suspect Android is now a factor in the purchase decision. I just don't know how big a factor it is.

I'm sure VZW has a lot to do with it; the licensing fees they're paying LucasFilm for the Droid name alone would probably feed a Third-World country. They could just as easily have called it HAL or WOPR or Big Red (just think: Special-edition metallic red Droid X...in fact I expect one to drop right around Christmas). VZW wanted people to associate the OS and the brand name thereby blurring the distinction. I'm sure that will rub off on phones such as the LG Ally which runs Android 2.1..."Oh hey, it's the same OS as the Droid, only $100 less..."

My stepdaughter said she wanted a Droid X because she'd seen all the commercials and was surrounded by iPhone users in her part of the country. Backlash perhaps?

I'd say folks in my group fall in the third category, except, they're not treating the phone the way a gadget-loving geek would treat it. They're not rooting the phones/installing custom firmware. Individually, they each barely touch the app store (I've asked). They seem to just use them to make calls, text, and play fancy ringtones.

I really get the impression from their comments that they're buying and using the phones for some sort of "geek-cred" accessory. It's like they've each been told to think that Real Geeks (TM) don't use iPhones, they use Android phones. So, each has run out to get the biggest, shiniest phone on their carrier of choice. Once they have them, they wander around saying "Here's my geek phone" rather than tinkering with it, like a geek would.

Ugh...has it really come to that? </rhetorical>

As Dennis will probably agree, there will be a number of people who couldn't care less about the OS as long as it "Just Works". Lots of Ubuntu users fall into that same category, while those more knowledgeable just stand back and nod their heads. If someone wants to gain geek cred with me using their phone, they'd better have a terminal emulator open on it running an ssh session.

On the other side of the coin, if it wasn't for Android, would anyone care about the Droid X?

kennyc

10-07-2010, 02:29 PM

...

One bit that isn't clear is how much name recognition Android has, and how much the fact that the phone uses Android as the OS influences a purchase decision. ...
______
Dennis

I blame George Lucas.

Oh, wait I see Chris already said that. :rofl:

DMcCunney

10-07-2010, 06:03 PM

I'm sure VZW has a lot to do with it; the licensing fees they're paying LucasFilm for the Droid name alone would probably feed a Third-World country. They could just as easily have called it HAL or WOPR or Big Red (just think: Special-edition metallic red Droid X...in fact I expect one to drop right around Christmas). VZW wanted people to associate the OS and the brand name thereby blurring the distinction. I'm sure that will rub off on phones such as the LG Ally which runs Android 2.1..."Oh hey, it's the same OS as the Droid, only $100 less..."
Speaking of LG and Android based phones:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4209404/LG-slashes-Android-phone-to-49?pageNumber=0#

A $50 Android based smartphone, anyone?

My stepdaughter said she wanted a Droid X because she'd seen all the commercials and was surrounded by iPhone users in her part of the country. Backlash perhaps?
Perhaps. As I said, fashion accessory, where the point is being cooler than thou. The iPhone is probably getting backlash because of the iPhone users exuding "Nyah Nyah Nyah! I've got an iPhone and you don't! I'm cooler than you are!"

With the Droid, a "The iPhone is so last year!" response becomes possible. :p

As Dennis will probably agree, there will be a number of people who couldn't care less about the OS as long as it "Just Works".
And frankly, they shouldn't have to care. It should Just Work.

Lots of Ubuntu users fall into that same category, while those more knowledgeable just stand back and nod their heads. If someone wants to gain geek cred with me using their phone, they'd better have a terminal emulator open on it running an ssh session.
I've done that on occasion with my old Palm OS PDA, getting into a work *nix server, mostly because I could. I'd hate to try to do anything serious using that connection...

On the other side of the coin, if it wasn't for Android, would anyone care about the Droid X?
You can make a case that if it weren't for Android, there wouldn't be a Droid X.
______
Dennis

kennyc

10-07-2010, 10:06 PM

Speaking of LG and Android based phones:
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4209404/LG-slashes-Android-phone-to-49?pageNumber=0#

A $50 Android based smartphone, anyone?

....

Maybe I'll get one as a backup...in place of $10/month insurance. :D

devilsadvocate

10-08-2010, 03:32 AM

I've done that on occasion with my old Palm OS PDA, getting into a work *nix server, mostly because I could. I'd hate to try to do anything serious using that connection...

Another English sports car?

Gwen Morse

10-08-2010, 06:17 AM

Ugh...has it really come to that? </rhetorical>

As Dennis will probably agree, there will be a number of people who couldn't care less about the OS as long as it "Just Works". Lots of Ubuntu users fall into that same category, while those more knowledgeable just stand back and nod their heads. If someone wants to gain geek cred with me using their phone, they'd better have a terminal emulator open on it running an ssh session.

On the other side of the coin, if it wasn't for Android, would anyone care about the Droid X?

I don't ssh from my phone. But, I do occasionally MUD. Do I get half-cred for telnetting to games from my phone? :rofl:

I'm just baffled that people will spend up to $200 (plus additional contract fees) to buy a phone they'll use for 1-2 years to make phone calls and text people and NOTHING ELSE. Maybe they'll look at YouTube videos a half-dozen times and play some Bejeweled. That's a quite a bit of money to say you're a geek and then not bother to geek out.

kennyc

10-08-2010, 06:58 AM

I don't ssh from my phone. But, I do occasionally MUD. Do I get half-cred for telnetting to games from my phone? :rofl:

I'm just baffled that people will spend up to $200 (plus additional contract fees) to buy a phone they'll use for 1-2 years to make phone calls and text people and NOTHING ELSE. Maybe they'll look at YouTube videos a half-dozen times and play some Bejeweled. That's a quite a bit of money to say you're a geek and then not bother to geek out.

I love the interactive weather maps. :thumbsup:

devilsadvocate

10-08-2010, 11:19 AM

I don't ssh from my phone. But, I do occasionally MUD. Do I get half-cred for telnetting to games from my phone? :rofl:

Nah, I'd say that's worth the full 100 points.

I'm just baffled that people will spend up to $200 (plus additional contract fees) to buy a phone they'll use for 1-2 years to make phone calls and text people and NOTHING ELSE. Maybe they'll look at YouTube videos a half-dozen times and play some Bejeweled. That's a quite a bit of money to say you're a geek and then not bother to geek out.

...or buy the phone for all its features, not bother to learn how to use them, and somehow it'll be the phone's fault. Especially if the discovery of said lack of knowledge happens as you're showing the phone off for the 13,000,000th time.

Of course if it's the most expensive unit on the sales floor, it must be the best, right?:smack:

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 11:50 AM

I love the interactive weather maps. :thumbsup:
A friend got a Droid and was raving about the coolest app ever: a Google sky map that didn't care about the weather: it uses GPS to determine your location, and displayed what he sky would look like if you could see it.

He figured that if he and his 12 year old daughter could agree that it was way cool, it had something. :p
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 11:52 AM

Of course if it's the most expensive unit on the sales floor, it must be the best, right?:smack:
Nah. It's the one you can use to look down on your friends because you have it and they don't. :cool:
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 11:54 AM

Maybe I'll get one as a backup...in place of $10/month insurance. :D
What's involved in transferring your contract to a new device? If you have to go to it as a backup, will your provider be a problem?
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 11:58 AM

Another English sports car?
Huh? :blink:

It has wifi (via a wifi SD card), and a usable ssh client. It's just the form factor makes serious work problematic.

There are some very good English sports cars.
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Dennis

kennyc

10-08-2010, 12:07 PM

A friend got a Droid and was raving about the coolest app ever: a Google sky map that didn't care about the weather: it uses GPS to determine your location, and displayed what he sky would look like if you could see it.

He figured that if he and his 12 year old daughter could agree that it was way cool, it had something. :p
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Dennis

I love that app too and it was the reason my son the astrophysicist was one of the first google phone owners.

kennyc

10-08-2010, 12:08 PM

What's involved in transferring your contract to a new device? If you have to go to it as a backup, will your provider be a problem?
______
Dennis

It's all in google....not that much in any case...just family-friends...

I keep my global contacts separate.

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 01:59 PM

It's all in google....not that much in any case...just family-friends...

My contacts are mostly on Google, too, and I make it a reflex to add anyone I'm likely to speak to again to the list.

Back when I used Outlook, I did that with my Outlook Contacts folder, and that became the basis of my PDA address book. The PDA also served to keep home and office Outlook contacts files in sync, as anything added in one got added to the other next hotsync.

I can do that in a round about way with Google, exporting the Contacts to CSV files.
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Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-08-2010, 02:56 PM

Another English sports car?

Huh? :blink:

It has wifi (via a wifi SD card), and a usable ssh client. It's just the form factor makes serious work problematic.

There are some very good English sports cars.
______
Dennis

Was referring to this (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1148365&postcount=23265) discussion...

I get a kick out of "seeing what we can get out of it" as well; it's the old hot-rodder thing. In fact I recently likened it to old English sports cars; you'll never make your original investment back, and it'll never catch up to a modern BMW, so you just have fun with it.

I agree. I like English sports cars; I wasn't using the term in a derogatory sense.

devilsadvocate

10-08-2010, 03:04 PM

What's involved in transferring your contract to a new device? If you have to go to it as a backup, will your provider be a problem?
______
Dennis
With VZW it's just a matter of dialing *228 and/or calling them to make the switch. The trick is that VZW bills a month in advance so if, for instance, you're switching from a top-shelf smartphone to a lesser one, the change in your data plan won't be evident until the end of the next billing cycle.

I can say from personal experience that if you add more phones to the contract it can get challenging to juggle...Our plan has 4 lines on it (mine, Shel, and the kids). When Shel got her Palm it was when we were adding a 4th line for Da Boy; we got the intro price on the phone for that number, switched that to Shel's number and parked her Blackberry (which had a different data plan) while at the same time switching my Blackberry over to my Droid X. August was a fun month; 2 phone purchases + overlapping data plans = $540 bill. Yeah, Verizon loves me.

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 03:41 PM

Was referring to this (http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1148365&postcount=23265) discussion...
Ah, okay. I'd missed that reply to the other discussion.

I agree. I like English sports cars; I wasn't using the term in a derogatory sense.
I didn't think you were. I just didn't understand what sense you were using. Things are now clear.
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 03:48 PM

With VZW it's just a matter of dialing *228 and/or calling them to make the switch. The trick is that VZW bills a month in advance so if, for instance, you're switching from a top-shelf smartphone to a lesser one, the change in your data plan won't be evident until the end of the next billing cycle.
Okay.

I can say from personal experience that if you add more phones to the contract it can get challenging to juggle...Our plan has 4 lines on it (mine, Shel, and the kids). When Shel got her Palm it was when we were adding a 4th line for Da Boy; we got the intro price on the phone for that number, switched that to Shel's number and parked her Blackberry (which had a different data plan) while at the same time switching my Blackberry over to my Droid X. August was a fun month; 2 phone purchases + overlapping data plans = $540 bill. Yeah, Verizon loves me.
I've dealt with Verizon from a telecom admin position. I do not recommend the experience.

At home, I finally bit the bullet and took my cable provider up on their TV/broadband Internet/VOIP phone service package. I'd avoided it previously because VOIP mostly makes sense when you save lots on long distance calls, and I effectively don't make any. Things changed when Verizon pricing brought base no frills charges for my landline to slightly higher than VOIP, and my cable provider offered a two year rate freeze as part of the package.

My cell phone is a low end Nokia dumb phone through a pre-paid Virgin Mobile account, and entirely adequate for what I do.
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Dennis

DMcCunney

10-08-2010, 08:52 PM

Maybe I'll get one as a backup...in place of $10/month insurance. :D
Well, that $50 price is from Sprint with a two year contract. I have no idea what an unsubsidized model would go for, but several times $50 seems likely.
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Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-09-2010, 01:24 AM

Well, that $50 price is from Sprint with a two year contract. I have no idea what an unsubsidized model would go for, but several times $50 seems likely.
______
Dennis
VZW has the LG Ally with Android 2.1 for the same price, or $269.99 without contract. That should give you an idea of how big the ballpark is.

Interestingly, VZW has started selling "certified pre-owned" (probably meaning refurb) on their site at a discount.
People trade in their older phones to get the latest and greatest, and VZW resells the trade-ins?
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Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-09-2010, 01:44 AM

I just followed the link, and saw

I also liked the

fine print... :p

People trade in their older phones to get the latest and greatest, and VZW resells the trade-ins?
______
Dennis
The online discount applies regardless, that's where I got the $269 number. It doesn't apply in-store.

The fine print isn't so fine considering it was all over the news that they were inflating their early-term fee from the original $175. Then again, if you're that adamant about not paying them anymore, what's an early-term fee going to do?

To my knowledge VZW doesn't take trade-ins/give trade-in credits, and if they did I'm sure you could do considerably better on FleaBay. Since you brought it up though, I'll ask around.

kennyc

10-09-2010, 04:41 AM

VZW has the LG Ally with Android 2.1 ...

Interestingly, VZW has started selling "certified pre-owned" (probably meaning refurb) on their site at a discount.

I was assuming the "cheap" phone would be available at Verizon and would only require changing devices in case of needing to move to the "backup"

I assumed Verizon had been selling refurb/used for a while, but I'm new to the Verizon system...

P.S. I'm loving my DroidX more every day as I begin to use it more and integrate it more with my lifestyle..

http://www.funny-tshirts.com/IndexTshirtsNew/Others/HappyCamper.jpg

SolRaven

10-10-2010, 07:25 PM

One bit that isn't clear is how much name recognition Android has, and how much the fact that the phone uses Android as the OS influences a purchase decision. If two phones have similar designs and feature sets, will a user pick the Android phone because it uses Android? I suspect Android is now a factor in the purchase decision. I just don't know how big a factor it is.

I bought my first smart phone in July and I was only interested in the Android OS. I almost bought an HTC Incredible, but then bought a used Droid off contract to check it out first. I'm glad I did, because after network & OS comes quality. The fact that Motorola has built such sturdy phones is what sold me to buy theirs. I live in S. Florida where almost all the floors are tile, so durability was a must. My Droid X has a slight dent in one of the corners from dropping it. I'm not sure if a less sturdy phone would've survived the drop at all.

I thought VZW loved me because our August bill was $474, plus we over paid by $165 somehow. So our bill has been paid for all of Sept. and part of Oct for just 2 lines. If they really loved me, they should let me upgrade my beau's line to a Droid X. Like I told them, it's already pre paid, as they could see.

SolRaven

10-10-2010, 07:41 PM

Interestingly, VZW has started selling "certified pre-owned" (probably meaning refurb) on their site at a discount.

I think those are mostly phones that have been used less than 30 days sent back to VZW. There was such a huge push to Android/smartphones over the summer that a lot of people didn't want to be locked into the contract and returned the phone, or returned it to try out another instead. I refused 2 Android phones at the door, so they would still be new. Had I signed for them and opened the box they would be refurbs and VZW would charge me a $35 restocking fee.

SolRaven

10-10-2010, 07:46 PM

The fine print isn't so fine considering it was all over the news that they were inflating their early-term fee from the original $175. Then again, if you're that adamant about not paying them anymore, what's an early-term fee going to do?

Smartphone termination is $35o. Regular termination is $175. I used to think that this was ridiculous, but when you think about how most smartphone are really small computers that retail for $550, it's their way of making sure they're not giving away a phone without recouping their loss from having you as a customer for at least 2 years. If you quit the contract, it's the same as you paying full price for the phone; you just do it at the end, not the beginning.

DMcCunney

10-10-2010, 08:54 PM

I bought my first smart phone in July and I was only interested in the Android OS. I almost bought an HTC Incredible, but then bought a used Droid off contract to check it out first. I'm glad I did, because after network & OS comes quality. The fact that Motorola has built such sturdy phones is what sold me to buy theirs. I live in S. Florida where almost all the floors are tile, so durability was a must. My Droid X has a slight dent in one of the corners from dropping it. I'm not sure if a less sturdy phone would've survived the drop at all.
Yes, Moto makes pretty sturdy kit. An old friend was an electrician, and he described one job where he and his partner were working at a nuclear plant, 300 feet up the side of a cooling tower. He managed to drop his Motorola radio, and watched it go bang, bang, bang down the stairway up the side of the tower till it hit the ground. He and his partner decided to just leave it there - they weren't about to climb down 300 feet and back up again to retrieve it. They simply finished what they were up there to do, and picked up the radio when they came back down. The antenna was bent in the fall, and had to be straightened with heavy pliers, but the radio still worked fine when they turned it on.

Nice to hear the Droid is sturdy. I've had several PDAs fail the Drop Test(tm), and it's good to know the Droid probably won't.

Why was Android your preferred choice of smartphone OS?
______
Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-10-2010, 11:25 PM

The fact that Motorola has built such sturdy phones is what sold me to buy theirs. I live in S. Florida where almost all the floors are tile, so durability was a must. My Droid X has a slight dent in one of the corners from dropping it. I'm not sure if a less sturdy phone would've survived the drop at all.
Yes, Moto makes pretty sturdy kit. An old friend was an electrician, and he described one job where he and his partner were working at a nuclear plant, 300 feet up the side of a cooling tower. He managed to drop his Motorola radio, and watched it go bang, bang, bang down the stairway up the side of the tower till it hit the ground. He and his partner decided to just leave it there - they weren't about to climb down 300 feet and back up again to retrieve it. They simply finished what they were up there to do, and picked up the radio when they came back down. The antenna was bent in the fall, and had to be straightened with heavy pliers, but the radio still worked fine when they turned it on.

Nice to hear the Droid is sturdy. I've had several PDAs fail the Drop Test(tm), and it's good to know the Droid probably won't.

Radios yes; phones, not so much.

I have an uncle who was a Moto employee when Bell first went to them in the late-'60s about the idea of putting phones in cars. I have a brother-in-law who works there now. Neither one would touch a Moto phone from the past 15 years unless it was A) Free, and B) Required. Now the B-I-L has a DX. Mine certainly feels sturdier than my 1st-gen Razr, but that's not saying much. In my experience LGs get the nod for kid-proof.

Now the radios, those things were/are built like tanks. I remember picking one up when I was a kid...could've worked out with that thing...like a solid block of steel, it was.

SolRaven

10-11-2010, 04:22 AM

Why was Android your preferred choice of smartphone OS?
______
Dennis

After playing with a friend's Droid and really checking out what it can do, I was impressed. I also liked that Android is open source. It may not have the most apps now, but opening it up gives it the most opportunity to grow in spades.

SolRaven

10-11-2010, 04:33 AM

Radios yes; phones, not so much.

I have an uncle who was a Moto employee when Bell first went to them in the late-'60s about the idea of putting phones in cars. I have a brother-in-law who works there now. Neither one would touch a Moto phone from the past 15 years unless it was A) Free, and B) Required. Now the B-I-L has a DX. Mine certainly feels sturdier than my 1st-gen Razr, but that's not saying much. In my experience LGs get the nod for kid-proof.

Now the radios, those things were/are built like tanks. I remember picking one up when I was a kid...could've worked out with that thing...like a solid block of steel, it was.

I suppose it depends on the phone. I never owned a RAZR and never wanted one; actually, I've never owned any Moto before the Droid. I suppose a better statement would be that I'm really impressed with Moto's latest Droids. The orginal Droid is ridiculously heavy next to most phones, but that heavy metal is what makes it so sturdy, with that in mind, I assumed the Droid X would be well built as well, and it is. I like the fact that the casing is metal and the screen is made out of Gorilla Glass. Btwn those two things alone, I should be able to make it to 20 mos. before my NE2. I'm curious to see how well their i1 holds up to being dropped.

DMcCunney

10-11-2010, 11:22 AM

I have an uncle who was a Moto employee when Bell first went to them in the late-'60s about the idea of putting phones in cars. I have a brother-in-law who works there now. Neither one would touch a Moto phone from the past 15 years unless it was A) Free, and B) Required. Now the B-I-L has a DX. Mine certainly feels sturdier than my 1st-gen Razr, but that's not saying much. In my experience LGs get the nod for kid-proof.
My reference standard for flimsy is some of the Palm PDA models, like the Tungsten E. It's not actually a surprise, as they will look for any place they can to shave pennies from the cost of manufacture, but you get things like a power button that tends to stop working.

SolRaven says she dropped her Droid with no worse effect than a dent in the case. That's heartening, as few handhelds I've seen would survive that. It might not be really sturdy, but it sounds like it's sturdy enough.

I got cured the hard way of keeping my PDA in my shirt pocket, and I'm careful by reflex now, but I'll still take any help I can get.

Meanwhile, it may be Moto's name and logo on the case, but I suspect actual manufacture is done by some nameless Asian outfit to Moto plans.
______
Dennis

DMcCunney

10-11-2010, 11:29 AM

After playing with a friend's Droid and really checking out what it can do, I was impressed. I also liked that Android is open source. It may not have the most apps now, but opening it up gives it the most opportunity to grow in spades.
Well, the biggest attraction for Android was the open source part, as it meant that any device maker could grab it as use it as the OS for whatever they were brewing, with no licensing fees or obligations. A whole lot of outfits did. The fact that it's modular, and manufacturers can include just the parts needed to support what they intend to offer also helps, and while it was originally meant for smartphones, there's no reason what it powers has to be a smartphone. We're seeing Android powered tablets and netbooks in the pipeline.

But there's a healthy app developer ecosystem as well, and I expect that to grow by leaps and bounds. There are several ebook reader apps for Android, for example, including at least one open source offering that looks capable.
______
Dennis

Steven Lyle Jordan

10-12-2010, 11:46 AM

A report on the radio stated Verizon stock on the rise, on the assumption that they would soon be carrying iPhones. Maybe the public wants Android phones, but the financiers apparently haven't figured that out.

TallMomof2

10-12-2010, 12:02 PM

I'll own an iPhone when it has a physical keyboard, in other words... never!

I purchased an original Droid off ebay when the previous owner switched cell phone providers. It replaced a Windows phone and the Droid phone is far superior. Far more apps, contacts and calendar work seamlessly since I already had them in Google. I could do that with the Windows phone but there were many more system crashes and the range of apps was very limited.

DMcCunney

10-12-2010, 01:29 PM

A report on the radio stated Verizon stock on the rise, on the assumption that they would soon be carrying iPhones. Maybe the public wants Android phones, but the financiers apparently haven't figured that out.
Oh, they have. Remember that the iPhone was originally offered through an exclusive deal with AT&T. I know folks who would have liked an iPhone, but wanted Verizon as their provider because of the broader service area. I believe that exclusive deal is ending. If Verizon can cut a deal with Apple, I think the analysts see a lot of iPhone users jumping ship when their AT&T contract runs out.

This is ultimately about market share for carriers, and popular cell phone models are tools to get share.
______
Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-12-2010, 02:17 PM

Oh, they have. Remember that the iPhone was originally offered through an exclusive deal with AT&T. I know folks who would have liked an iPhone, but wanted Verizon as their provider because of the broader service area. I believe that exclusive deal is ending. If Verizon can cut a deal with Apple, I think the analysts see a lot of iPhone users jumping ship when their AT&T contract runs out.

This is ultimately about market share for carriers, and popular cell phone models are tools to get share.

Yes, it is. This explains why AT&T is suddenly getting all sorts of brand-new hardware on an exclusive basis such as the BB Torch and the upcoming Winphones. They're looking to bolster their offerings when they lose the iPhone exclusivity, which is supposed to be at the end of 2011 but Uncle Steve is makin' plans...

On that note: Other than a couple of misleading WSJ headlines and wishing really hard, what makes anyone so sure VZW has a lock on a CDMA iPhone? Sprint uses CDMA too. The WSJ article also says the new phone will use the latest cutting-edge network; yes, that could mean VZW's upcoming LTE but it could also mean Sprint's Clearwire-based 4G which has been around in some markets for about a year now. Sprint has maybe half the subscriber base of VZW but almost the same 3G coverage; they currently only have one halo phone (the excellent Evo 4G, 1st cousin to the Droid X) and thus be more likely than VZW to roll over in the event of a Steve Jobs tantrum. Reps for VZW at the CTIA+ show this last week said this whole thing is nothing more than the same rumor that goes around every few weeks. Thoughts?

=X=

10-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Oh, they have. Remember that the iPhone was originally offered through an exclusive deal with AT&T. I know folks who would have liked an iPhone, but wanted Verizon as their provider because of the broader service area. I believe that exclusive deal is ending. If Verizon can cut a deal with Apple, I think the analysts see a lot of iPhone users jumping ship when their AT&T contract runs out.

This is ultimately about market share for carriers, and popular cell phone models are tools to get share.
______
Dennis
Yes but there is one thing you are forgetting....price! My brother just recently switched over to AT&T because of their data plan tier pricing. He really wanted the iPhone 4. But he could not justify paying $200 for an iPhone when he could buy the Captivate for $.01

In my opinion the Captivate is a much better phone for it's OS and features. However on the HW level they are pretty close.

I myself just purchased the Samsung S Vibrant and think it is a excellent phone.
=X=

=X=

10-13-2010, 02:04 PM

Yes, it is. This explains why AT&T is suddenly getting all sorts of brand-new hardware on an exclusive basis such as the BB Torch and the upcoming Winphones. They're looking to bolster their offerings when they lose the iPhone exclusivity, which is supposed to be at the end of 2011 but Uncle Steve is makin' plans...

I'm not sure if that is the real reason or even the only reason. Verizon's Droid brand have seriously cut into Apple and AT&T. Those Android phones are fantastic. I'm sure with the Droid Verizon gets a lot more control over the phone details and a bigger cut of the revenue. I'm sure with the success of the Droid it's Apple that is more willing to negotiate as they see their market lead dwindle away because of an exclusive deal.

On that note: Other than a couple of misleading WSJ headlines and wishing really hard, what makes anyone so sure VZW has a lock on a CDMA iPhone? Sprint uses CDMA too. The WSJ article also says the new phone will use the latest cutting-edge network; yes, that could mean VZW's upcoming LTE but it could also mean Sprint's Clearwire-based 4G which has been around in some markets for about a year now. Sprint has maybe half the subscriber base of VZW but almost the same 3G coverage; they currently only have one halo phone (the excellent Evo 4G, 1st cousin to the Droid X) and thus be more likely than VZW to roll over in the event of a Steve Jobs tantrum. Reps for VZW at the CTIA+ show this last week said this whole thing is nothing more than the same rumor that goes around every few weeks. Thoughts?

Well sprint really has two halo phones as you put it. Evo and Epic. And aside from the screen size and OS Evo and Droid X have next to nothing in common. Moto makes the X and HTC makes the Evo.

As I stated earlier I don't see VZW folding to Apple. They have done well without the iPhone and will continue to do so esp with their Droid platform.

=X=

DMcCunney

10-13-2010, 02:14 PM

Yes but there is one thing you are forgetting....price! My brother just recently switched over to AT&T because of their data plan tier pricing. He really wanted the iPhone 4. But he could not justify paying $200 for an iPhone when he could buy the Captivate for $.01

In my opinion the Captivate is a much better phone for it's OS and features. However on the HW level they are pretty close.

I myself just purchased the Samsung S Vibrant and think it is a excellent phone.
=X=
No, I'm not forgetting it, and it will be a factor in the decision.

Verizon's big advantage is coverage. It's a fair bet that your Verizon phone will work regardless of where you are. You can't make that assumption about all the other vendors. People who travel extensively may feel they need to use Verizon as their carrier simply so there will be no question about
placing or receiving calls from wherever they happen to be at the moment.

If that's not a concern, AT&T or other carrier might well be cheaper and a better option.

But meanwhile, if Verizon cuts a deal to offer the iPhone, it's a good bet that people who wanted an iPhone but wanted to stay with Verizon will jump at it, and people who went with AT&T to get the iPhone will consider jumping ship. The analysts are betting that way, which is why Verizon's stock rose on the rumors.
______
Dennis

DMcCunney

10-13-2010, 02:22 PM

I'm not sure if that is the real reason or even the only reason. Verizon's Droid brand have seriously cut into Apple and AT&T. Those Android phones are fantastic. I'm sure with the Droid Verizon gets a lot more control over the phone details and a bigger cut of the revenue. I'm sure with the success of the Droid it's Apple that is more willing to negotiate as they see their market lead dwindle away because of an exclusive deal.
The Droid has certainly been successful. It has put Moto back into the cell phone race, and before the Droid, there were industry rumors Moto was looking at exiting that business, as they couldn't compete with RIM, Nokia, Samsung and the like.

The longer term question will be what they do for an encore. Moto's previous big hit was the Razor, but they couldn't come up with a follow on product to build on the momentum and retain the market share. What will they do in a year of so when the Droid is "last year" and there are all manner of new devices out there?

As I stated earlier I don't see VZW folding to Apple. They have done well without the iPhone and will continue to do so esp with their Droid platform.
Why should they have to "fold"? Verizon wants to sell service contracts. Apple wants to sell phones. If Verizon thinks it can sell more contracts offering an iPhone, and Apple thinks Verizon call sell a lot of iPhones for them, I don't see much obstacle to a deal.
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Dennis

devilsadvocate

10-13-2010, 02:57 PM

I'm not sure if that is the real reason or even the only reason. Verizon's Droid brand have seriously cut into Apple and AT&T. Those Android phones are fantastic. I'm sure with the Droid Verizon gets a lot more control over the phone details and a bigger cut of the revenue. I'm sure with the success of the Droid it's Apple that is more willing to negotiate as they see their market lead dwindle away because of an exclusive deal.

Not the only reason, but definitely a contributing factor though. According to Apple they've moved 51.15 million iPhones since 2007. Even considering a number of newer subscribers will not want to pay the early-term fee, that's a pretty big chunk of revenue for AT&T. They're not going to make that up on service alone.

Well sprint really has two halo phones as you put it. Evo and Epic. And aside from the screen size and OS Evo and Droid X have next to nothing in common. Moto makes the X and HTC makes the Evo.

That was just off the top of a Google search. From that last link:"The Motorola Droid X lends itself to some pretty easy comparisons the HTC EVO 4G, and why not? The two devices easily class each other on most aspects (most obviously size), and the one that comes out on top boils down to personal preference."
...their words, not mine. From an Android site no less.

As I stated earlier I don't see VZW folding to Apple. They have done well without the iPhone and will continue to do so esp with their Droid platform.