That is what the govenrment does. As long as a debt is owed they can still gaff your income tax rebate. If a debt is statute barred, it does not mean that the debt is no longer owed. You can read up on this in Bill C-28.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

Does this work for out of province situations as well? If it is not a federal
grant how can a provincial government take the monies, and if they result to
federal applications then the provincial debt should also fall back into the
six year statute of limitations of the federal laws.....no?

Provincial governments piggyback on the feds. For instance, the Ontario goverment has a "Federal set-off program" that seizes income tax rebates from those who owe the ontario government and are in default. The same program applies to the BC government.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

Provincial governments piggyback on the feds. For
instance, the Ontario goverment has a "Federal set-off program" that
seizes income tax rebates from those who owe the ontario government and
are in default. The same program applies to the BC government.

Johnny

This is happening to a friend of mine. I've been doing a lot of
research to help him out. The ministry of colleges, etc, is
trying to collect on an alleged grant overpayment dating from
1990. He first found out about it in, I think, 2000 when a
collection agency called him. The agency gave up on him, and now
the ministry wants Revenue Canada to collect his tax refunds.
This is continuing even though he got a lawyer to send them a letter
that their claim was statute barred under the limitation periods in
effect at the time. They claim that, though crown bound by the
Limitations act of 2002, they aren't bound by previous limitation laws
(using the Interpretation Act which states they don't have to obey any
Act unless it binds the crown) and, in their view, can still collect.

He didn't file a return last year to avoid letting them get his refund
while he fixes this mess, but this year Revenue Canada has told him to
file. He's told RC what the situation is, but basically has until
the end of April to fix this.

Can the ministry actually say they don't have to obey the previous limitation period because they're not 'crown bound'?

The ammendment made to the Ontario Limitations Act states that there are no limitations that restrict the govenrment of Ontario fro,m recovering money owed at any time.

Now, based on interpretation, one would assume that the no limitation rule would simply come into force on the day the ammendement was made to come into force. The Ontario government wants everyone to beleive that it applies to debt borrowed and/or defaulted prior to the coming into force of the newly implemented statute.

A class action suit would involving all those who are being proceeded against for debt owed that is actually statute barred would be a good story to follow.

Here are the problems:

1) The government of Ontario is powerful government.

2) People who owe money and are in default have no financial power to hire the appropriate lawyers to enforce that a borrower's right to such benefits are either excercised or put out in the open.

3) Governments are able to do whatever they want, regardless of what laws or statutes are broken. Justice Gomery has issued his report and it says that very statement. The civil servants and members of public office can break the law and not have to worry about being held accountable for it. Lawbreakers working for government are untouchable.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

The ammendment made to the Ontario Limitations Act
states that there are no limitations that restrict the govenrment of
Ontario fro,m recovering money owed at any time.

Now, based on interpretation, one would assume that the no
limitation rule would simply come into force on the day the ammendement
was made to come into force. The Ontario government wants everyone to
beleive that it applies to debt borrowed and/or defaulted prior to the
coming into force of the newly implemented statute.

A class action suit would involving all those who are being
proceeded against for debt owed that is actually statute barred would
be a good story to follow.

Here are the problems:

1) The government of Ontario is powerful government.

2) People who owe money and are in default have no financial power
to hire the appropriate lawyers to enforce that a borrower's right to
such benefits are either excercised or put out in the open.

3) Governments are able to do whatever they want, regardless of what
laws or statutes are broken. Justice Gomery has issued his report and
it says that very statement. The civil servants and members of public
office can break the law and not have to worry about being held
accountable for it. Lawbreakers working for government are
untouchable.

Johnny

So the previous limitation periods DO apply? Since the Limitation
Act of 2002 binds the crown and refers to the former limitation periods
(section 24), cannot that be used to bind the crown to the former
limitation periods?

What I am saying is that the ammendment came into force in 2002. Based on defined and VERY accuate interpretation, debt owed to MTCU (OSAP) that had ocured before the coming into force of this new limitation legislation carries a limitation period as before.

The government of Ontario will argue this with you - and they will do everything within their power to convince you that there are no limitations at all. This is why I wrote items 1-3 to show you what you are up against when you decide to argue your rights to benefits and freedoms that you would normally be entitled to under a particular statute.

So, if a letter was sent to the Ministry detailing the limitation
issue, can they continue to ignore it? Or do they have to stop
their claim?
What about the tax off-set issue? Since the Act provides that no
action can commence with respect to the claim, does mentioning this in
a letter force them to stop trying to take income tax refunds?

Would they pay more attention if such a letter came from a lawyer such as yourself instead of directly?

All you need is someone who knows the lending and other related systems from inside out - and their books from cover to cover. Unfortunately, lawyers are not experts in the field of effectively taming and solving student debt problems. Part of The CFW Group is built for this purpose.

The literature that you send has to be written a specific way, and issued to the appropriate sectors. The CFW Group has these tools that are needed to get the job done. However, they are not free.

Sorry for the delay in this repsonse. I do not spend as much time here on this site. If you need more personalized assistance, by all means, visit us at www.cfwgroup.ca - or www.cfwgroup.ca/forum.

Johnny

Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

I'm glad to see this post is still going. My wife was pressured and harrassed by collection agents for a few mths before agreeing to pay off $410.00. We kept defying them until they threatened her credit rating. BTW, she's been out of school for approx 14yrs!!

We recieved an official receipt for this amount from the Ontario Shared Services Bureau for income tax purposes. I prepare my own tax returns using Taxwiz. Does any know where I can enter this amount on the tax return...trying to re-coup our loss!

All you need is someone who knows the lending and other related
systems from inside out - and their books from cover to cover.
Unfortunately, lawyers are not experts in the field of effectively
taming and solving student debt problems. Part of The CFW Group is
built for this purpose.

The literature that you send has to be written a specific way, and
issued to the appropriate sectors. The CFW Group has these tools that
are needed to get the job done. However, they are not free.

Sorry for the delay in this repsonse. I do not spend as much time
here on this site. If you need more personalized assistance, by all
means, visit us at www.cfwgroup.ca - or www.cfwgroup.ca/forum.

Johnny

Can you recommend a specific package or should we just submit an info message and wait for a response?

An update: my friend is currently speaking with the Ontario
office of the Ombudsman to have them intervene. They are
repeating what the Ministry of TCU in that there is no limitation
period on student grants.

We've given them the info on the Canada Student Loans Act, the
Canada Student Financial Assistance Act, and the Limitations Act R.S.O
of 1990, all of which state a six year limitation period on loans, and
in the case of the latter, all debt based on lending.

The Ministry of TCU has conceded it is crown bound by the Limitations Act of 2002, but not any previous limitation period.

The Ombudsman agrees the the Transition section of the Limitations
Act of 2002 refers to former limitation period, but doesn't think the
info we've given them applies. They just said today that OSAP is
provincial and the Acts (CSL and CSFA) are federal. The rep has
given the info to their lawyer, but said it doesn't look good.

I'm really not comfortable with this route since they don't seem to
know what they're doing. They couldn't get copies of the Acts
which are freely available on the internet.

We'd really like to go the CFWgroup route, Johnny, if we could. I'll try posting an inquiry message on that site.

Government sectors are known to say, "um, we are nto sure - but the acts reads.. blah blah". It is all int he interpretation as you can see.

I have spoken to many lawyers who know the statutes upside down and inside out - and they all say the same thing. The government will not divulge to a student loan borrower that their debt is statute barred. They are trying to collect it and not educate people how to excericse their rights to information and benefit with respect to any limitaiton issues. There is a lawyer here with me right now as I type this message and a head is nodding. When you ask the MTCU about limitation issues, they are going to twell you there are none. However, the ammendment came into force in 2002.

If they say that the ammendment applies to ALL loans past, present, and future, thewn that also means that OSAP or grant overpayments that have been barred BEFORE the coming into force of this ammendment would have miraculously survived.

Zeus, call me if you want and I will help you make sense out of all this. If you are in Ontario, there are lawyers we can set you up with.

I have a grant overpayment from 88-89, last year they took my income tax and my GST, I got it back because I am unable to work, but I had to make arrangements to pay them $10 per month until it is paid off. I owed $1660.00 Now every year I have to reapply for a grant foregivess. They know I will never be able to go back to work and yet I have to fight with themevery single year until this "grant overpayment" is paid off.

I have to file my income tax return, wait till I get notified that my tax refund has been used to pay off my debt, then contact them to have the forgiveness forms mailed to me , so it ends up taking a good 3 months before I even see my refund, WHY, can I not just automaticaly apply at the beginning of each year and not have to wait.

Hi Johnny, Can you tell me, if they take a tax return after a debt is barred, is the receipt of that amount towards the barred debt considered an admittance of debt so that the debt is then re-initiated? I believe my debt to be stats barred since it has been over six years since I was discharged from a bankruptsy, which would have been the last amount of money they received as they (student loans) were included in the 'paying out' by my trustees, even though my student loan was only 7 years old at that time. I'm in B.C. Thanks for the clarification.

Johnny wrote:

Now, as for income tax seizures, the ammendment to the federal act (Bill C-28) stipulates that income tax rebates can still be taken and applied to a barred debt. This is outlined in section 16.1- item 2.

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