Long before the happy clappy or not so it seems world of pandaria, massive evil dragons and dead humans. The Nathrezim were corrupting leaders of Azeroth. Have they finally succeeded with our Trollish rebel to corrupt the masses into total war on Azeroth?

I'll quote WoWwiki (Not a great source)

"Dreadlords prefer to turn their talents to psychic assault and manipulation, seeking to dissolve the bonds that unify individuals, groups, and nations and leave their mortal victims floundering amidst chaos and decay. A nathrezim-occupied world eventually abandons higher morality as irrelevant to the context in which its inhabitants find themselves, joining the dreadlords in their callous worship of the maligned. Although fierce warriors, nathrezim prefer a leadership role, standing behind a wall of ghouls or other allies and retreating when their enemies press too close"

The next interaction after he says that is literally labeled "call his bluff" which causes him promptly backtracks immediately (as in it was bull$h!t)! Try to atleast double-check your single supporting fact.

As to the original thread topic: I don't think Vol'Jin is possessed. I don't think he's gone amoral either, he's just being practical. With a whole bunch of dead available it would make sense for him to let Sylvanas raise the dead as extra cannon fodder to save the living, especially if it meant he could finish his goal. Personally if I were him, I would have just let the Alliance go in first and set them up to fail, and then let Sylvanas raise the dead and finish the job. The whole event is going to weaken the Horde anyways, no reason to weaken the Horde further as well as leaving the Alliance at its current operating strength. Let the Alliance weaken itself in a failed attempt to capture the city, lower their moral, then unseat Garrosh, take the city, and you won't have to worry about the Alliance coming in after you take control because they'd still be butt hurt from their last attempt to take the city. All in all it's a win-win for everyone but the Alliance, who would once again get the much shorter end of the stick.

As to the original thread topic: I don't think Vol'Jin is possessed. I don't think he's gone amoral either, he's just being practical. With a whole bunch of dead available it would make sense for him to let Sylvanas raise the dead as extra cannon fodder to save the living, especially if it meant he could finish his goal. Personally if I were him, I would have just let the Alliance go in first and set them up to fail, and then let Sylvanas raise the dead and finish the job. The whole event is going to weaken the Horde anyways, no reason to weaken the Horde further as well as leaving the Alliance at its current operating strength. Let the Alliance weaken itself in a failed attempt to capture the city, lower their moral, then unseat Garrosh, take the city, and you won't have to worry about the Alliance coming in after you take control because they'd still be butt hurt from their last attempt to take the city. All in all it's a win-win for everyone but the Alliance, who would once again get the much shorter end of the stick.

Garrosh was supposed to have a reason to assassinate Vol'jin, the reason being Vol'jin undermining Gary's authority, hindering progress of military operations and going to borderline sabotage. Frankly, I dunno if it was ever realized at all (knowing this game, it was not), as the narrative focuses exclusively on the fate of poor wronged Vol'jin opposing a vile dicktator. And thу level of uncooperativeness implied was supposed to have repercussions on Vol'jin's subordinates. But again, I'm trying to make this story make sense despite that it wasn't meant to make any sense in the first place.

There's a difference between undermining authority, and calling you out on the way your actions are to the detriment to the Horde. I know the Horde isn't a democracy, but it's not a dictatorship either, as much as Garrosh thinks so.

If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

There's a difference between undermining authority, and calling you out on the way your actions are to the detriment to the Horde. I know the Horde isn't a democracy, but it's not a dictatorship either, as much as Garrosh thinks so.

I still fail to understand how devastating Alliancу is deyrimental to the Horde. Other than that, what has Garrosh been focusing on?

If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

This is just Alliance members blowing things out of proportion...AGAIN. What just because Vol'jin talks down to an ALLY and puts him in his place hes evil? Horde and Alliance are not best of friends, hes not going to treat you nice. Get over it and move on

Like I said in another thread (about the same dialogue, geez) I dont know if people are that stupid or just want to flame bad.

It's provoking a war he can't win. He can't win because he's over confident and arrogant.

Oh yeah, sure, you can't win if you're a meanie, however daring or courageous you may be. Caesar was overconfident and not quite humble, too, you know. It led him to creating a legendary empire. Gengis Khan wasn't known for kisses and blowjobs (except for ones that he received), and he was quite successful.

If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

Edit; Upon reading that post you linked, Vol'Jin doesn't say the dead will be raised to fight Garrosh, he just states that he'll give the dead to Sylvanas. As Sylvanas is always trying to reinforce the numbers of the Forsaken as they can't reproduce, so they're a slowly dying race. It's more of an insult to the Alliance saying we're going to let you be ressurected in to undeath, more than it's an "Oh we're gonna let you just die to bolster our own forces" kinda thing.

If this happens we might get different playable undead races

"Earth can be shaped molded... you cannot you are useless" - Ascendant Lord Obsidius

However I have this nagging sense that "Malkorok" is actually "Mal'ganis"

---------- Post added 2013-04-22 at 08:11 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Haven

I still fail to understand how devastating Alliancу is deyrimental to the Horde

For the same reasons eradicating the Horde is detrimental to the Alliance; the way the game story is written the power of both factions is needed to defeat threats to the entire world in the time-line of the game.

The Horde is NOT that powerful. Not enough to take the Alliance out in any capacity and definitely not enough to stand on their own against (insert big bad).

For the same reasons eradicating the Horde is detrimental to the Alliance; the way the game story is written the power of both factions is needed to defeat threats to the entire world in the time-line of the game.

The Horde is NOT that powerful. Not enough to take the Alliance out in any capacity and definitely not enough to stand on their own against (insert big bad).

This is the only world in which slaughtering each other all the time actually helps fight a common enemy. Because fuck logic. Also, Garrosh is a character, he's not aware of the Great Design that magically keeps things the way they are forever. Like a damn sitcom, in which everything returns to default by the end of the episode...

Last edited by Haven; 2013-04-22 at 09:47 AM.

If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

look, there's a puny human - jealous of the strength and size of a mighty troll. troll culture is superior to that of humans, elves and dwarven - and so are their bodies.

FOR 'DE ANCHESTORS, MON!

You mean that superior culture we rolled over in zul'aman ? or maybe that superior culture we took a poop in zul'drak ? you might also meant that superior culture we flushed down the toilet in zul'gurub ? Or all that superiority we buried under the sands of zul'farrak ? Trolls are basically worst of worst in azeroth, a scrub race that deserve nothing short of extermination.

This is the only world in which slaughtering each other all the time actually helps fight a common enemy. Because fuck logic. Also, Garrosh is a character, he's not aware of the Great Design that magically keeps things the way they are forever. Like a damn sitcom, in which everything returns to default by the end of the episode...

It's why the Keepers of Time fight to preserve it... if this were messed up as in the Black Morass instace, the Alliance would have never formed. Instead, the races that form the Alliance would have descended into a chaotic civil war. Azeroth would have then been mercilessly crushed by the invasion of the Burning Legion. The Burning Legion would have then initiated an act of mass genocide, effectively destroying all life on Azeroth. This would have resulted in many more deaths than the First War and many others combined. Therefore, preserving time and opening the Dark Portal can be seen as "the lesser of two evils".

The constant fighting prepares them for the greater threats, and has saved more lives than it cost

Oh yeah, sure, you can't win if you're a meanie, however daring or courageous you may be. Caesar was overconfident and not quite humble, too, you know. It led him to creating a legendary empire. Gengis Khan wasn't known for kisses and blowjobs (except for ones that he received), and he was quite successful.

It's not "he can't win because plot armor/storyline/he's the bad guy'. It's he can't win cus he barely has two brain cells to rub together. He has only won battles because of better leaders serving under him, and when he tosses those leaders to the side, he'll fall under his own ineptitude.

If there's one thing World of Warcraft players hate more than people who don't play, it's people that do play but not as much as them.

Unfortunately I'm not a lore nerd enough to know where Vol'Jin picked up his Demon the seeds of rebellion seemed already going during his death in the Scenario. So I kinda count that out. I guess he could have been tricked whilst Thrall the super shaman held his golden pill at a dragon.

He didn't die, he was in a fucked up state, but he wasn't dead.

And his dislike of Garrosh stems from 5.0 and the troll starter zone. That, and his desire to oust Garrosh have been around for quite a while.

Originally Posted by Arrashi

Hey its just fully canon alliance lore that describes him as unbearable. I just believe that even demons have some standards. And i doubt they have other showers than lawa ones so it would be hard for them to wash up.

Because he's Horde and they're Alliance, I wouldn't take it as an actual representation of his health, more like an opinion from a biased source.

And his dislike of Garrosh stems from 5.0 and the troll starter zone. That, and his desire to oust Garrosh have been around for quite a while.

Because he's Horde and they're Alliance, I wouldn't take it as an actual representation of his health, more like an opinion from a biased source.

I don't consider it as representation of his health, i consider it as representation (or lack of it) of his Hygiene. If you really want to be paragon of freedom who leads horde to brighter future, make your loincloth brighter first. And take a shower. Seriously smelling him have similar effect to LSD.

It's not "he can't win because plot armor/storyline/he's the bad guy'. It's he can't win cus he barely has two brain cells to rub together. He has only won battles because of better leaders serving under him, and when he tosses those leaders to the side, he'll fall under his own ineptitude.

Like when he orchestrated stealing the Focusing Iris and blowing up an antire Alliance town, ridding the world of red-haired abomination, leaving the Blue Aspect guessing how the hell that could happen. Any imbecile could do that, they blow up enemy cities all the time.

If you're not being manipulated, then you're handled by professionals.

I don't consider it as representation of his health, i consider it as representation (or lack of it) of his Hygiene. If you really want to be paragon of freedom who leads horde to brighter future, make your loincloth brighter first. And take a shower. Seriously smelling him have similar effect to LSD.

hygiene is a part of one's health and once again considering context here I doubt it is an accurate measure of such. It sounds more like an attempt at insulting him than anything else.