This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

Seems to be separate from Al-Khalid but there does not seem to be much difference in performance at least when you compare the specifications of both tanks. Perhaps it will evolve further and will be a much different tank at the end of the project.

Seems to be separate from Al-Khalid but there does not seem to be much difference in performance at least when you compare the specifications of both tanks. Perhaps it will evolve further and will be a much different tank at the end of the project.

Do we have any share in this project like Al Khalid - or purely chinese?

w/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

Currently there is no operational tank in the world which is 4th Gen. Even the most advanced tanks of our days are third generation.

This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

I would like to see Pakistan Army increase the number of tanks it has, 4300 tanks. Keeping around 1000 each of Al-Khalids I/IIs, Al-Haiders and remaining number filled by an advance upgrade of T-80s or a third type.

But all these tanks would be useless without a lethal, layered Air-Defence SAM Network like in the class of FD-2000s, S-400s, Buk-M1s, etc. We already have a average to good SAMs for Low-to-Medium altitude. Just need long-range/high-altitude mobile SAMs.

........ when the first drop of a Munafiq's blood drops in the Kaa'bah ........

........ the Black Flags Army shall rise from Khurasan and commence its earth rumbling march toward Damishque. Any force that tries to come in its path, shall be destroyed with ruthless destruction. Awaiting, upon reaching Damishque, the safron and beads of pearls and the Black Turban that shall lead the Salah of Fajr .........

........ the stones and trees of Lud shall cry out to the Black Flags and tell them of the Munafiqs, Yahuds and Kuffar that are hiding behind them, to come and kill them. That day shall be the day of reckoning, the day of justice, the day when no power shall hold and unfair advantage. The battle shall be fought and won by way of faith ........

This one has surpassed the 50 Ton graph atleast, coming near to Type-99G. I would be expecting more armour thickness for such weight increase.

The Pakistani armor stands good with with AZ, T-80 and AK complimented by T-59/69's, whats required are the likes of guederain, rommel, patton etc in the commanding ranks and excellent logistics and other support elements to continue the drive.

sometimes I wonder why we are still focusing a lot on building bigger and fatter tanks. We should more heavily on smaller, unmanned platforms that will help in taking out enemy tank forces. It will give much better stealth and more tactical advantages.

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

....of all the analysis being done by the members here, and previous analysis of the preceding years, there is one, the most important factor which has not been ever included..i dont blame u guys for this, almost none of u has served in the army, some of u might be associated with it or know someone within it, but that doesnt qualify u into making some statements which dont take several important factors known only to the inner ones....

....in this case, the factor which everyone is ignoring, that is the TANK CREW, the individuals who wud be manning these tanks...people dont take into account that a person who is hardly matric or of 8th standard, has a very low IQ and is also not conversant with modern electronics, how would he be able to operate these 3rd and 4th gen tanks.....we have to keep this point in mind always,making a new tank isnt hard, but then who will operate it....i mean our crews werent even able to operate the laser range finder on the Pattons in 65 war, which was a big disadvantage for us....due to which the technique of semi-indirect fire was implemented, again time consuming and ammo consuming as well...

....of all the analysis being done by the members here, and previous analysis of the preceding years, there is one, the most important factor which has not been ever included..i dont blame u guys for this, almost none of u has served in the army, some of u might be associated with it or know someone within it, but that doesnt qualify u into making some statements which dont take several important factors known only to the inner ones....

....in this case, the factor which everyone is ignoring, that is the TANK CREW, the individuals who wud be manning these tanks...people dont take into account that a person who is hardly matric or of 8th standard, has a very low IQ and is also not conversant with modern electronics, how would he be able to operate these 3rd and 4th gen tanks.....we have to keep this point in mind always,making a new tank isnt hard, but then who will operate it....i mean our crews werent even able to operate the laser range finder on the Pattons in 65 war, which was a big disadvantage for us....due to which the technique of semi-indirect fire was implemented, again time consuming and ammo consuming as well...

....

Couldn't the army recruit more educated crew OR educate the crew for newer models? If we are unable to do so it would be a big disadvantage for us as time progresses and technology starts to move forward.

Are there any plans underway to address this shortcoming?

w/salaam

In case I forgot here is it is... Asalaamualikum

"There is none worthy of worship but He, glorified be He: [Far is He] above that which they associate [with Him]" (Qur'an 9:31)

Not equal are the owners of the fire and the owners of the Garden. The owners of the Garden, they are the victorious. [Quran 59:20]

Allah knows best [who are] your enemies. Allah is sufficient as a Friend, and Allah is sufficient as a Helper. [4:45]

Fudayl ibn Iyaad said: "Verily, if an action was done sincerely for the sake of Allah but was not correct, it will not be accepted by Allah. And if the action was correct but not done sincerely it will not be accepted until the act is sincere and correct. For it to be sincere, it has to be done for the sake of Allah, and in order for it to be correct, it has to agree to the sunnah."

the Messenger of Allah pbuh says; “whoever does not care about the affairs of the Muslims is not one of them.”

Couldn't the army recruit more educated crew OR educate the crew for newer models? If we are unable to do so it would be a big disadvantage for us as time progresses and technology starts to move forward.

Are there any plans underway to address this shortcoming?

w/salaam

this is not something the army has to do about...its at the national level,education level has to be increased....if the army increases the required standards, there will be fewer number of recruits...army itself cant force anyone to get good grades or something, its at the national level, awareness about getting more education....

....of all the analysis being done by the members here, and previous analysis of the preceding years, there is one, the most important factor which has not been ever included..i dont blame u guys for this, almost none of u has served in the army, some of u might be associated with it or know someone within it, but that doesnt qualify u into making some statements which dont take several important factors known only to the inner ones....

....in this case, the factor which everyone is ignoring, that is the TANK CREW, the individuals who wud be manning these tanks...people dont take into account that a person who is hardly matric or of 8th standard, has a very low IQ and is also not conversant with modern electronics, how would he be able to operate these 3rd and 4th gen tanks.....we have to keep this point in mind always,making a new tank isnt hard, but then who will operate it....i mean our crews werent even able to operate the laser range finder on the Pattons in 65 war, which was a big disadvantage for us....due to which the technique of semi-indirect fire was implemented, again time consuming and ammo consuming as well...

....

Nowadays there are drivers and Naib Qasids in government departments with BA, so I think there is a large pool of educated young men if the army wants to tap into it. But even army officers are drafted after high school (Inter). The best way is to have a rigorous testing system which tests the IQ of the applicants.

This is the flag of Islam, for you cannot separate the Muslim league from Islam. Many people misunderstand us when we talk of Islam, particularly our Hindu friends. When we say this flag is the flag of Islam, they think that we are introducing religion into politics, A FACT OF WHICH WE ARE PROUD. Islam gives us a complete code. It is not only a religion, but it contains laws, philosophy and politics. It contains everything that matters to a man from morning to night. When we talk of Islam, we take it as an all embracing word.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (11th January 1938)

Let us go back to our holy book, the Quran. Let us revert to the Hadeeth and the the great traditions of Islam which have everything in them for our guidance if we correctly interpret them and follow our great Holy book, the Quran.

- Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah (6th March 1946)

"It is my strong belief, that there is no ideology which is more democratic, enlightened and progressive than Islam."

Nowadays there are drivers and Naib Qasids in government departments with BA, so I think there is a large pool of educated young men if the army wants to tap into it. But even army officers are drafted after high school (Inter). The best way is to have a rigorous testing system which tests the IQ of the applicants.

With respect having a qualification doesnt mean you are educated. This is the sad story of pakistans education

Nowadays there are drivers and Naib Qasids in government departments with BA, so I think there is a large pool of educated young men if the army wants to tap into it. But even army officers are drafted after high school (Inter). The best way is to have a rigorous testing system which tests the IQ of the applicants.

Army cant tap in, ours is still a volunteer army, army cant force anyone to serve it....plus not every one wants to go undergo the hard ships....everyone also doesnt passes through the training regime...

this is not something the army has to do about...its at the national level,education level has to be increased....if the army increases the required standards, there will be fewer number of recruits...army itself cant force anyone to get good grades or something, its at the national level, awareness about getting more education....

------------

I think army can as in air force the culture is quite different they give more "Baqayajat" (don’t exactly know what they are, pension and other things given to them after retirement) to those officers who obtain 2 years masters degree in any discipline They don’t mind Grade or institution from where they are getting their qualification therefore their NCO types officers do go to universities like VU or AIOU to obtain any type of degree.

If army will follow same course and give more benefits to any one who obtain a 2 years bachelors degree then these people will at least try to get one. You should never count on government as these foreign nationals will not be doing any good for us in next thousand years. There always a Motivator and you should find one this is just my observer’s perspective.

u dont need to be commissioned in pak army to know what goes on and in and about in the army forces. Having a close link through circle of friends in army or family like father,cousins etc gives a fair amount of information especially through open discussions on many events, parties, get togethers as well as usual cribbing among officers mates.

1965 is long gone and having a chat with a tank driver in 2000 about upgrades of T-69 it was great to know how night vision in these tanks has enhanced the night combat capability of Pak armoured forces. The army prefers FA passed now though sifarishis who are matric or under may still make it. In the end, it comes down to Nowshera armour school to train the crew and through excercises in units their skills increases.

There was an old member M1Tanky, you should find his posts regarding the analysis of tank crews.

I think army can as in air force the culture is quite different they give more "Baqayajat" (don’t exactly know what they are, pension and other things given to them after retirement) to those officers who obtain 2 years masters degree in any discipline They don’t mind Grade or institution from where they are getting their qualification therefore their NCO types officers do go to universities like VU or AIOU to obtain any type of degree.

If army will follow same course and give more benefits to any one who obtain a 2 years bachelors degree then these people will at least try to get one. You should never count on government as these foreign nationals will not be doing any good for us in next thousand years. There always a Motivator and you should find one this is just my observer’s perspective.

...i think u missed my point, individuals which u referred to get their education/degree AFTER they have become part of army/airforce/navy....while i was referring to recruiting criteria for new soldiers once they are being considered for induction...

u dont need to be commissioned in pak army to know what goes on and in and about in the army forces. Having a close link through circle of friends in army or family like father,cousins etc gives a fair amount of information especially through open discussions on many events, parties, get togethers as well as usual cribbing among officers mates.

1965 is long gone and having a chat with a tank driver in 2000 about upgrades of T-69 it was great to know how night vision in these tanks has enhanced the night combat capability of Pak armoured forces. The army prefers FA passed now though sifarishis who are matric or under may still make it. In the end, it comes down to Nowshera armour school to train the crew and through excercises in units their skills increases.

There was an old member M1Tanky, you should find his posts regarding the analysis of tank crews.

yeah i remember tanky and his posts.....but even then, there are several low level/hardcore issues which someone from the army, and that too from the proper arm will be knowing....i also attend lots of gathering of SERVING and retired officers....and i am astonished to see SERVING army officers talking off the mark...they are not to be blamed though, if for example an armor officer hasnt served in the operational area, he will be not be knowing the true capabilities/limitations of his tank TI sight...

Pakistan to test the new Chinese MBT-3000 VT4 main battle tank, possible for its Next Generation MBT Haider project

According to Kanwa Defense Review, Pakistan is looking forward to testing the new MBT-3000 (also called VT4 for the export version) main battle tank designed by China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO) based in Beijing. According NORINCO, the MBT-3000 is the latest technology of main battle tank especially designed to meet the challenge of high-tech warfare.

Unlike the older AL-Khalid or MBT-2000, the MBT-3000/VT-4 is motorized with a 1300 horsepower diesel engine manufactured in China. This is slightly more powerful than the engine currently used by the Type 99G, the most advanced main battle tank used by the People's Liberation Army, with 1280hp. The MBT-3000 developed for the overseas market is indeed the most powerful tank made in China.

Pakistan is reportedly testing under its indigenous next generation main battle tank project, codenamed Haider MBT.

The main armament of the MBT-3000 consists of smoothbore gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and fume extractor. It is fed by an automatic loader which holds a total of 22 projectiles and charges which can be loaded at the rate of eight per minute. In addition, the tank is equipped with a set of guided weapons, allowing use of a guided missile with a range of up to 5 km.

The turret is in the centre and is of all-welded steel armour construction to which a layer of composite armour has been added over the frontal arc. To increase the body side protection, the MBT-3000 can be fitted with with explosive reactive armour (ERA). Stowage baskets are mounted to the rear and each side of the turret.

The MBT-3000 is equipped with a stabilised fire control including second-generation cooled thermal imager sights for the commander and gunner. The tank is also fitted with laser range finder.

The MBT3000 also beats the Type 99G in other design aspects, Kanwa said. The tank has a remote-controlled 12.7mm machine gun which the Type 99G does not have. Furthermore, the thermal imaging systems designed for the export version of the MBT3000 is a generation ahead of the ones developed for the domestic version of the MBT3000 and the Type 99G. Kanwa said the 125mm main gun of the MBT3000 can fire the 125mm Gun anti-armor missile known as the PG7 missile.

Introduced from Russia, the PG7 allows the MBT3000 to hit targets five kilometers away and can penetrate 240mm rolled armor. In tests, the MBT3000 could fire three missiles in a minute. As for regular tank ammunition, the auto loader of the MBT3000 enables the tank to fire eight rounds a minute, making it China's most advanced and powerful tank at present.

Good news. As Dizasta mentioned earlier, I think now that we have the capability to build and upgrade tanks on our own we should definitely look to increase the numbers of tanks. They still play a very relevant role in the battlefield, and can even be used to transport troops, like the Israeli Merkava. More than ever battlefields are intergrated and multi layered, infantry and armour work side by side. More armour can make your infantry more effective, as long as it has adequete aircover. This can be provided by a large volume of manpads and vehicle mounted short range sams, as well as medium and long range SAM's to cover airstrikes.

Regarding the educational levels of tank crews, this is something the army can fix quite easily if it wants too.

For a start increase the salaries and benefits of tank crews and it will become a more attractive job and attract better quality recruits.

As for the current cohort, it's not like all of our tank crews are deployed. They can be trained. I doubt many of them are in a position where 18-24 months of full time education and on the job training won't make them adequetely trained for the job. Put them back in the class room, even if it means going over basic maths/science whatever in order to give them the background required to use this high-tech equipment.

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we have atleast three types of tanks running............ this is not heavy tank so not justifying adding another type. unless AK2 was not a hit. This is like buying a camry while you already have an accord.

SWEET IS SLEEP TO ME AND EVEN MORE TO BE OF STONE,WHILE THE WRONG AND SHAME ENDURE.TO BE WITHOUT SIGHT OR SENSE IS A MOST HAPPY CHANGE FOR ME,THEREFORE DO NOT ROUSE ME. HUSH! SPEAK LOW. I said to God "I hate Life" God replied "Who asked you to love life? Just Love me & life will be beautiful" Living in favorable and unfavorable conditions is PART of living. Smiling in all those conditions is ART of living."Anytime you think you need to protect God, you can be sure you're worshiping an idol"

China has agreed to Pakistan's request to purchase China North Industries Corporation's VT-4, the export version of China's MBT-3000 main battle tank, military expert Song Zhongping told Beijing Television in an interview on Nov. 19.

Pakistan urgently needs a more modern tank like the VT-4 after its chief rival India introduced the T-90 main battle tank from Russia, also gaining the license to manufacture its own T-90s, according to Song.

Song said the VT-4 is better than the T-90 in mobility, firepower and defensive capability and it would be best for Pakistan to introduce a production line for the tank to meet the challenge from India.

Song said he was stunned by the design of VT-4 when he saw the tank for the first time. He said that the tank has explosive reactive armor like most advanced tanks produced by the United States and Russia. Furthermore, the tank's 125mm smooth bore gun is currently the largest tank gun anywhere in the world. Song said the VT-4 can do anything other main battle tanks can do and the model will serve Pakistan's armed forces well.

SWEET IS SLEEP TO ME AND EVEN MORE TO BE OF STONE,WHILE THE WRONG AND SHAME ENDURE.TO BE WITHOUT SIGHT OR SENSE IS A MOST HAPPY CHANGE FOR ME,THEREFORE DO NOT ROUSE ME. HUSH! SPEAK LOW. I said to God "I hate Life" God replied "Who asked you to love life? Just Love me & life will be beautiful" Living in favorable and unfavorable conditions is PART of living. Smiling in all those conditions is ART of living."Anytime you think you need to protect God, you can be sure you're worshiping an idol"