This is actually a longstanding (2.5 year) bug with rip. Each rip extension is ~3 seconds, and the duration of a thrice-extended rip is generally 24-26 seconds (occasionally 22, which is when you see the rip fall off substantially early). Simc just models it as the first/second/third extension granting +1/+1/+2 ticks (8 seconds total), but in-game it's considerably more erratic.

There's different levels of rotations: theoretical simulation, predictive like Ovale and reactive as human reactions could allow. I'm trying to understand differences between these and adjust to it.

In theory if we can check how much rip is extended (22 to 26secs) then we can predict when it will end with ignoring blizzard official debuff timer. Is Rip debuff real timer that erratic or is there some logic to it?

Somewhere during Cata I've done extensive testing on rip duration and could not discern any pattern.

My suspicion is that there's some wonky server-calculation-time-lag influencing wether the 3rd second gives an extra tick or not. A bit similar to how you can get extra ticks on ignite/deep wounds/feral 2T12 bonus if you refresh the dot at exactly the same time it ticks. But I don't think anyone can verify that besides the wow developers and it would probably require extensive debugging on their part, so probably not worth the effort.

This is actually a longstanding (2.5 year) bug with rip. Each rip extension is ~3 seconds, and the duration of a thrice-extended rip is generally 24-26 seconds (occasionally 22, which is when you see the rip fall off substantially early). Simc just models it as the first/second/third extension granting +1/+1/+2 ticks (8 seconds total), but in-game it's considerably more erratic.

I changed it more recently when the UV bug was around to alternate between granting 1 and 2 ticks, so typically it will be +1/+2/+1, not that it's particularly important.

averter wrote:

dot.rip.ticks_added doesn't get reset to 0 after Rip is down

Serge fixed this in a new revision last night, haven't got the chance to work with it yet.

averter wrote:

From AoE pov rake or filler usage on multiple targets and their missing combopoint management. If I remember correctly.

So, basically Rip is being extended without much consistency. In addition to the above test, I did some shorter tests (a couple dozen w/o fraps) and got anywhere from 11 to 13 ticks (12 and 13 being more common than 11). If I would hazard a guess, I'd say its adding 2+(TimeToNextTick) (so anywhere from 2.00 -> 3.99). This is likely caused by the refresh mechanic for dots. For example rake gets 15+TimeToNextTick so for example if you refresh at 6.1 seconds you get a 15 + 0.1 second Rake but if you refresh at 5.9 seconds you get a 15 + 2.9 second Rake.

It doesn't seem possible to predict when Rip will *actually* fall off (even by tracking at which point the ticks take place, client/server disconnect). (even at ticks occurring at 0.6 I could have it fall off at both 1.7 and 0.5)

Something occurred to me today. With the new Re-origination trinket, hit and expertise should have decreased significantly in value. Dropping all of it probably won't be in our favour, but a fair chunk of it could be used to increase the mastery boost we get during the trinket proc. I don't personally have the time or resources needed to experiment with this at the moment. But I'll just drop it here, giving you guys some food for thought.

Referee wrote:Something occurred to me today. With the new Re-origination trinket, hit and expertise should have decreased significantly in value. Dropping all of it probably won't be in our favour, but a fair chunk of it could be used to increase the mastery boost we get during the trinket proc. I don't personally have the time or resources needed to experiment with this at the moment. But I'll just drop it here, giving you guys some food for thought.

Hit and Expertise aren't actually converted during the Rune of Origination proc. That wouldn't work well if all of a sudden while we get this massive mastery buff, our hit chance drops to 0%.

I believe he meant that you might not want to hit exp/hit caps anymore if you could get more haste/crit from gear that way, so that you'd have even more mastery when rune procs. Dropping some rating does sound like a dps increase to me at least. (As long as the amount of misses doesn't interfere too much with the rotation..)

As far as getting rid of excess hit and exp, I can mention anecdotally that with the Shado-Pan Assault trinket, I'm over hit cap with no way to reduce it any further, apart from replacing agi/hit gems with agi/stam. From a look at the rest of the gear, I feel like we will have a struggle this tier finding ways to get rid of hit and exp just to get *down* to cap.

I would agree though, if we have the flexibility to get below hit cap, there would certainly be value in giving up a certain amount of hit/exp to get more mastery during procs. Maybe this is crazy talk, but what about even giving up a certain amount of mastery to haste or crit in order to get it back double during the procs?

I think raffy and aggixx (at least) have already done some simulations that suggest it would be about 4k dps up to get mastery, haste and crit as close to each other as possible (while keeping mastery the highest). I'm unable to find the post about it just now, though. But if dropping mastery for haste/crit buffs dps, the question about dropping hit/exp for the other stats should really be "how much you should drop to achieve the best possible dps". Or how much does it hurt if the misses come at the worst times?

And yeah, ffff the exp/hit amounts on the trinkets. I'm either 0.5 % under or 0.5 % over the caps right now, no way to change that except for the gemming or weird enchants really... Makes everything with hit or expertise unattractive right now. Fitting renataki's in would be just plain impossible. Aiming for tier pants and a new belt/ weapon without expertise should help, but oh well, no idea when I'm lucky enough to get the drops...

Vami wrote:I think raffy and aggixx (at least) have already done some simulations that suggest it would be about 4k dps up to get mastery, haste and crit as close to each other as possible (while keeping mastery the highest). I'm unable to find the post about it just now, though.

This is the way to go if you have Rune of Re-Origination. Because Haste and Crit are added together and then buffed by 200% and added to Mastery (provided your Mastery is higher) it gives you the bang for the proc. Haste also helps it proc more for RPPM.

If you have any of the other RPPM trinkets or the new meta more Haste will help you get more out of them.

Yeah M=H=C reforge (with the constraint that M>H>C) is only optimal for Rune (and probably for 525+ avg ilvl). Prior to this, Mastery `all the things.`

I plan on doing a bunch of tests this weekend to figure out the best 522 setup (and maybe an upgrade/offset ranking). I'm sure Aggixx is already working on this too.

I never got 4p T14 so I'm not that interested in figuring out when to break the bonus, but I'd imagine the moment you get 2p T15, go for it. Get the VP trinket ASAP. And probably the rule of thumb for everything else: equip everything, but be careful about RPPM trinkets. Bottle/Vicious is quiet good and can align well (45 and 105 ICD).

PS: I added the AoE actions due to a request by another project member, I only spent like an hour or so on them so I'm sure there's improvements that can be made (there's also some things I did that I know will be suboptimal in edge cases).

I'm just guessing here, but I think Strength (in practice) is the all around winner pre-Rune. But once we get a Rune, it will probably be either be Mastery or Haste depending on how your reforging ends up.

Mastery is all around better once you have a fair amount of T15 gear, Mastery just outscales Strength in general. If your Thrash uptime is high (like 60-70% or higher) on a single target then Mastery was already better than Strength in T14H gear.

Been putting a little work into some features that will greatly help simplify the "complex" action list I've been using. Shout out to reia for implementing a good chunk of it and being awesome and holding my hand with code.

Combined with some previously implemented expressions like dot.rip.crit_pct and action.shred.hit_damage you can do things like this:actions+=/rake,if=action.rake.tick_damage>dot.rake.tick_dmg <-- Clip rake if you can put one up that ticks for more damage.actions+=/rake,if=action.rake.tick_damage>action.mangle_cat.hit_damage <-- Use rake instead of mangle if the direct damage is higher

In addition to this, also fixed a bug where DoC charges were being consumed by a few non-damaging abilities (Tiger's Fury, Skull Bash).

Updating the dot damage comparisons using these new expressions and fixing the DoC bug ended up gaining the profile about 2k+ DPS.

aggixx wrote:Been putting a little work into some features that will greatly help simplify the "complex" action list I've been using. Shout out to reia for implementing a good chunk of it and being awesome and holding my hand with code.

Combined with some previously implemented expressions like dot.rip.crit_pct and action.shred.hit_damage you can do things like this:actions+=/rake,if=action.rake.tick_damage>dot.rake.tick_dmg <-- Clip rake if you can put one up that ticks for more damage.actions+=/rake,if=action.rake.tick_damage>action.mangle_cat.hit_damage <-- Use rake instead of mangle if the direct damage is higher

In addition to this, also fixed a bug where DoC charges were being consumed by a few non-damaging abilities (Tiger's Fury, Skull Bash).

Updating the dot damage comparisons using these new expressions and fixing the DoC bug ended up gaining the profile about 2k+ DPS.

Really nice work aggixx!May we get a copy of your "complex" action list?