If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

That doesn't mean much, they made him have a good showing against Hydreigon, they just prefer to use him as a comedy tool 90% of the times.

I didn't exactly see a good showing against Hydreigon to be honest... Ash was just calling attacks out like crazy, which was the reason Oshawott had momentum until Cameron finally called out an attack of his own. It went all downhill from there.

Originally Posted by gohan5

Eh, I didn't have as much of a problem with the loss for Oshawott. I never really saw this as a big battle for it. I meanhad this been for Ash's gym badge then I'd be upset, but we knew going in that this episode and battle would be lighthearted. Do I want him to win? Yes, but this isn't the pinnacle for him. He's hardly as weak as people think.

What makes any Pokemon stronger than another? His scalchop is his biggest weakness but also gives it an advantage over some. I don't know what you want me to say. Any of Ash's Pokemon could beat another if the situation is right so yeah.

I can't believe Oshawott's loss has caused World War 3 to break out. Like really, it's not that big of a deal. Oshawott has lost many times and although I would have liked to see him win here, it's not the end of the world since he's always been more of an entertainer than a battler. I think more attention should be paid to Axew, who once again wandered off and caused tons of problems. This was like what, the dozenth time he's done this? Oh and yeah, Cheren looked nice. But surprisingly enough, he wasn't the most important part of this episode for me.

Overall, I did not care for this episode. Cheren had a pretty cookie-cutter personality and interactions and actions.

The battle was rushed, Mijumaru was made out to be a joke. I admit, maybe I jumped the gun a bit before on Mijumaru. It's not like he's been in favorable battling conditions when he loses, I mean he lost to Bel's Daddy's Hihidaruma which is a Pokemon he had since his youth, he lost to Baoppu just to show off how Pod had become more competent, he wasn't going to beat a fully-evolved Dragon in the Isshu League, and this episode he lost to show off that Cheren was a competent new Gym Leader. But, still, how does he go from tanking moves left and right in the League to being beaten by one Thunder Fang from a Haderia? Not to mention it seems like all the development he got to learn to battle without his hotachi has now gone to the gutter and he never actually utilized any of it. He has Aqua Jet, Hydro Pump, and Tackle too which would have more than sufficed. I'm a huge Mijumaru fan so it sucks to see him portrayed this way, losing in a comedic fashion no less. It seems like whenever he wants to battle or is cocky/confident he gets checked rather easily. I guess it's not the first time a Water-type has had a few loses in a row, like Buoysel back in DP. The writers went to the trouble of having this battle being in the opening and it was complete poo. I also think it's kinda weird we see Cheren and Satoshi battling in a cathedral with N in the group but that wasn't the case at all this episode.

Overall, I did not care for this episode. Cheren had a pretty cookie-cutter personality and interactions and actions.

The battle was rushed, Mijumaru was made out to be a joke. I admit, maybe I jumped the gun a bit before on Mijumaru. It's not like he's been in favorable battling conditions when he loses, I mean he lost to Bel's Daddy's Hihidaruma which is a Pokemon he had since his youth, he lost to Baoppu just to show off how Pod had become more competent, he wasn't going to beat a fully-evolved Dragon in the Isshu League, and this episode he lost to show off that Cheren was a competent new Gym Leader. But, still, how does he go from tanking moves left and right in the League to being beaten by one Thunder Fang from a Haderia? Not to mention it seems like all the development he got to learn to battle without his hotachi has now gone to the gutter and he never actually utilized any of it. He has Aqua Jet, Hydro Pump, and Tackle too which would have more than sufficed. I'm a huge Mijumaru fan so it sucks to see him portrayed this way, losing in a comedic fashion no less. It seems like whenever he wants to battle or is cocky/confident he gets checked rather easily. I guess it's not the first time a Water-type has had a few loses in a row, like Buoysel back in DP. The writers went to the trouble of having this battle being in the opening and it was complete poo. I also think it's kinda weird we see Cheren and Satoshi battling in a cathedral with N in the group but that wasn't the case at all this episode.

This.

People always defends Torterra´s mediocre and shameful battle record with excuses like "It was attacked with Ice Punch" or "It was against an Elite Four Member", but Oshawott just loses because he´s weak/pathethic/a joke, ahhhh the hypocrisy (-_-)

People always defends Torterra´s mediocre and shameful battle record with excuses like "It was attacked with Ice Punch" or "It was against an Elite Four Member", but Oshawott just loses because he´s weak/pathethic/a joke, ahhhh the hypocrisy (-_-)

The point is bash and whine about the season just because is Best Wishes (-_-)
I can almost see the posts if Oshawott won the match:
- DEM BS
- They made Cheren look weak just like they did with Marlon
- Oshawott is overpowered
- A bad written battle

Whatever the result was, people will still Bash and Whine just because the season it is

THIS. Thank you. I didn't like this particular episode either, but the screamfest over just one thing in it is ridiculous and clearly just another showing of anti-BW bias in this fandumb.

I'm going to complain about Oshawott losing because I certainly wouldn't have if he won.

So let me get this straight. Ash loses the Hoenn league and then gets invited to a prestigious league where he gets to battle seven top trainers that are on the level of Elite Fours and perhaps even Champions. He manages to beat all seven and gets a job offer to become one. In contrast, Ash loses the Unova League, fights a new gym leader and loses. Wow.

See?, the point of all this is to justify Torterra just because is a fully evolved Pokémon from the Holy Grial season, and just because Oshawott is a basic stage Pokémon from the Bash & Whine season, it´s weak/pathetic/a joke.

Darmanitan & Electivire are mostly the same stats wise, but I don´t know what makes Electivire stronger than Darmanitan when it was stated that Bianca´s Dad had Darmanitan since forever, being his travel partner when he made his journey.

Hippowdon had Fire Fang, so what?, Torterra had Leaf Storm.
Hydreigon has always been portrayed as a strong Pokémon no matter who uses it, saying that Oshawott is weak just for losing against Hydreigon is just hate towards Cameron (-_-).

Tell me, what do you think the sales of Johto starters plushes look like nowadays, compared to back in the day?

Erm.........guess they arent selling? I genuinely have no idea.

I should have made my assertion clearer though: I can't remember any of Ashs Pokemon losing quality both on- and off-screen when its on the main roster. Sorry mate, my bad.

Besides, Id assume the Johto starters still shift pretty well? They werent particularly memorable then but theyve had some recent memorable cameos in Sinnoh. Whereas Oshawott comes out to fight and loses. Stays off-screen and it gets overtaken by the Unova squad members.

THIS. Thank you. I didn't like this particular episode either, but the screamfest over just one thing in it is ridiculous and clearly just another showing of anti-BW bias in this fandumb.

While I am also bothered by the rampant Oshawott bashing, I think it's really unfair to say that only BW haters are complaining.

Anyway, I knew this would happen. Just one look in the old episode thread told me what would happen if Oshawott lost, but I also knew that he would be bashed even if he did win (although not as much). Oshawott can never appease the fanbase, which is sad. And for the first time in a long time, I don't blame the writers. They made it crystal clear that Oshawott was never meant to be a powerful battler. He's won about half of his matches, but that's as good as it'll get. I wish people wouldn't make Oshawott's loss out to be a bad thing.

I think we should get something straight here. No one is bashing oahawott on the grounds of the fact that this show is BW. People bash oshawott for hogging too much screentime, for being a weak and incompetent battler, and for being cute at the expnse of power. Not BW centric. Besides squirtle is the last person on this entire board who should be talking about hypocrisy.

Really I don't see what wrong with this episode. I liked it because Cheren was an okay character like N and the battle maybe rushed, but it make sense when you think about it hard enough. Oshawott lost because he was hit by a super effective move and that makes sense. Take Down is stonger then Tackle. And my reasons why the battle was quick and easy. Axew is still a kid when you think about it and little kids may do something like that.

Axew: I want to play!
Pikachu: No Axew we have to go now.
Axew: I want to play
Pikachu: Axew you Baka

See?, the point of all this is to justify Torterra just because is a fully evolved Pokémon from the Holy Grial season, and just because Oshawott is a basic stage Pokémon from the Bash & Whine season, it´s weak/pathetic/a joke.

Darmanitan & Electivire are mostly the same stats wise, but I don´t know what makes Electivire stronger than Darmanitan when it was stated that Bianca´s Dad had Darmanitan since forever, being his travel partner when he made his journey.

Hippowdon had Fire Fang, so what?, Torterra had Leaf Storm.
Hydreigon has always been portrayed as a strong Pokémon no matter who uses it, saying that Oshawott is weak just for losing against Hydreigon is just hate towards Cameron (-_-).

Right, because it's always about you and complaining... nobodies allowed to have a negative opinion about how Best Wishes is being treated. You like it that's fine, but don't think everyone has to follow your twisted logic of liking garbage writing, because it is, there's no reason for Ash to be this bad 5 regions in :P I'm sorry, but I'm not gonna just sit here and accept what I'm being given, but I'm too good a fan to just flat out quit.

What's possessing you to think Ash was gonna beat an Elite 4 member... if Pikachu couldn't beat Agatha's Gengar and Grovyle couldn't beat Drake's Altaria. There was no way Torterra or any of Ash's other Pokemon (new and old) were gonna beat Bertha's Hippowdon. As for Electivire and Darmanitan, both of those loses were acceptable. Even if Hydreigon is portrayed as strong, Oshawott should never have been called out against it in the beginning, or are you being the hypocrite, because as far as I recall, you love basic stage Pokemon. If they're as powerful as you say they are, then Oshawott should have won regardless, as it had early momentum as I said.

I think we should get something straight here. No one is bashing oahawott on the grounds of the fact that this show is BW. People bash oshawott for hogging too much screentime, for being a weak and incompetent battler, and for being cute at the expnse of power. Not BW centric. Besides squirtle is the last person on this entire board who should be talking about hypocrisy.

As for the part in bold, again, how does this surprise anyone? We knew pretty much from the get-go that Oshawott's only real purpose in the main cast was to be cute enough to sell merchandise. He was never made it out to be a great battler except for the times when it was convenient for Ash, like when Oshawott beat Pansage. That's pretty much all there is to Oshawott, so I don't know why anyone expected anything else from him. Like really, he's been in the main cast for more than two years. We know him inside and out.

As for the part in bold, again, how does this surprise anyone? We knew pretty much from the get-go that Oshawott's only real purpose in the main cast was to be cute enough to sell merchandise. He was never made it out to be a great battler except for the times when it was convenient for Ash, like when Oshawott beat Pansage. That's pretty much all there is too Oshawott, so I don't know why anyone expected anything else from him. Like really, he's been in the main cast for more than two years. We know him inside and out.

That still doesn't make that right. People are still allowed to dislike how Oshawott is treated.