Sunday, December 13, 2009

I just got home from a beautiful wedding. And I saw two wonderfully committed and successful human beings with what I am sure is a wonderful future ahead of them, tying the knot and making their love for each other known to the world. It's a beautiful thing, and I wish that I could see more of it.

But, sadly, I was brought down from my matrimonial high when I got on my computer and read a post from over at AOL Black Voices. Unfortunately, it seems that cupid is not shooting his arrow towards the hearts of quite a few of our people. Or, if he is shooting, he sure is missing a lot. Yes my friends, as much as I hate to admit it; the black man and the black woman seem to be at war far too much with each other these days.

Check out the post (and the comments that follow) that have me thinking this way. Oh, and don't forget to go to the sister's web site with the link that's provided over at AOL Black Voices.

Wow! My sisters, I never knew it was this bad between us:

"Are you tired of watching the demise of the black community? Are you tired of watching our women being degraded and disrespected all over television? Are you tired of purchasing music for your children that promotes gangs, drugs and the killing of other black youth such as themselves? Are you sick of our youth allowing themselves to become a shell of what they could be? Are you sick of our black men that leave our race and marry outside our race profiting off the black community while they in turn, turn their backs on us? Are you ready to say something about it? Are you ready to boycott with your dollars? Are you ready to speak up and out in order to ask our black people to stay together; stick together because we need each other?! We are asking our black men to come home because we need you here...helping us rebuild our communities! We are openly praising GOOD black men (and we know you're out there) and asking them to be an example for our young men! It is a critical time for black America and we all need to love each other and work together so our youth have a race to be proud of as they grow. Here at Boycott Black Men we are taking the boycott way past just interracial dating and tackling numerous topics that aid in the demise of us as a people...we are on a mission not to support those that don't have our best interest at heart. Join us and voice your opinions and I urge our black women to visitww.BlackWomenNeedLoveToo.com as well. Save the Black Community! I also urge you to purchase Mr. Vernon J. Davis' book Love, Is,The Beautiful Black Woman! Its a powerful book that all black women should add to their reading list!! Visitwww"

Oh my, where to start? Well let me start with a question: If black men were to start settling down and marrying the good sisters who are out here in droves, would it change the problems in many of their lives? Problems such as getting a job; getting a criminal record expunged; going back to school and getting a proper education; and other pathologies that might plague the young black male in A-merry-ca. And would some of these sisters who are out here even want these men?

Well after seeing that beautiful wedding tonight I want to at least start the dialogue. I want some of these sisters out here (especially the ones on the brink of turning their backs on black and never looking back) to talk to us, and tell us what we need to do.

Brothers, I need you all to just listen...OK, I know that's impossible, but try to be introspective and keep an open mind.

386 comments:

Years ago, I sent money in support of the membership. I would do it all over again. I give them my support.

As for these issues they bring up. I agree with them on most of it, and it's all connected. I will be back to elaborate on my thoughts during the day. It's not going to be pretty or easy to swallow for certain people. Going to bed.

Man field were do I began. I hate these kind of sites. I refuse to give them a dime. I've been attacked by black women on the web who says I'm against them because I don't fall with their BM bashing. Yes I the trifling ones are getting the most air time but can't help wondering where the hell these women are finding these men! Then again like my mom said to me I have lived in a Fantasy world where my contact with these types have been on the minimum. Yes according to some of these things black women and men are with each other but I don't know if it's as extreme as some may think. I have to beat these bm off with sticks at school and around.

Had to edit the former post. The sites that want to help black women I'm all for but for some reason I don't think some things are as serious as some make it. Another thing I want to know about how this site is going to change certain things. All I see if fuel being added to the already burning fire. What about those "white" companies who don't promote good images of black women or who don't use black women at all. What are we going to do about them? Then again I'm from the younger generation so maybe I'm being hopeful my age group will be better. I'm an HBCU student so I don't know.

@Field: I think this is very much the case. I constantly hear women complain about the black men they are with and I always ask myself..."Why the hell you got involved to begin with." Also some of them are not gems themselves. Let's get that on the table right now. Not every so called "educated black woman" is a prize. I know because I have to be around them. I mean sometimes you should know by the way they say hello but then again that's just me.

You will find a lot more bw who would never date outside the race than you would bm who would never date outside the race.

All bw want...all we really want, deep down, is some loyalty. Where does that start? At home. With bm abandoning their children at such high rates, little black girls already feel unloved and unwanted.

Once she gets to be of dating age, she sees that her black male counterparts are open to dating white/Latino/Asian women, while she feels a fierce loyalty toward him and wants to date only him.

Then she hears those same guys dogging bw out while extolling the virtues and beauty of those other women.

I don't think bm realize just how much this hurts. Bw talk a good game about being strong, but we hurt just like everyone else. Cut us and we bleed. Tell us we aren't as pretty or soft or loving as non-black women, and we become that little girl who saw her daddy walk out the door all those years ago.

Field, it's real simple. Love us the way we love you. Don't let anybody disrespect us. Defend us in the media and in the barbershop. Treat your daughters like princesses, even if you hate the mother. Tell us we are beautiful, even though our skin is dark (like yours), our hair is kinky (like yours), and our eyes aren't blue (like yours aren't).

If you date out, don't blame us for it. Don't disparage us or rub it in our faces. And if we date out, don't taunt us or get angry.

I don't think bw should completely turn away from bm, but I do think it's time for us to worry about our own happiness. There are good bm out there, but if they aren't interested, bw should keep it moving until they find someone who is.

@Anon97: You make some great points. I thank my lucky stars every day that I grew up with a wonderful black father in the home who I love dearly. Not all little black girls were fortune as I learned later on in life because were I grew up most of the black girls were raised in two parents homes or if not the father was present and very involved in her life. I hate when black men and women rub it in the other gender when they date out or give stupid reason. I didn't push you anything and neither did alot of other people.

Once she gets to be of dating age, she sees that her black male counterparts are open to dating white/Latino/Asian women, while she feels a fierce loyalty toward him and wants to date only him.

One thing's for sure is that this is not going to change. A big part of the 'gain' for black men with integration was access to white women (and now other non-black women.) I believe it was a prime mover for them. Remember Eldrige Cleaver? He practiced raping black women so he could move up to white women.

The black man knows he's incredibly valuable to black women and that there aren't enough men to go around. It's a sellers market.

Anon97 said it all, but I want to add that I wish more women (especially black women) would show loyalty to their feelings and emotional sanity.

Accepting that it's better to have healthy self-esteem while single than accept any kind of mistreatment in a romantic relationship. Be honest that having standards is better than accepting poor relationship behavior.

Admit that there's no problem with sharing with a man what kind of relationship you want. Outline what you need to date someone seriously, say it with clarity, confidence and grace.

And if a man seems hesitant to give you what you want/need to feel emotionally secure with him, release him. Let him go.

Focus on you. Easier said than done but much better than constantly getting your heart stomped on.

I want to add that boycotting black men is not the proper response to feelings of romantic loneliness -- I wish the site creators were honest enough to create a site that focused on women valuing themselves enough so they can avoid negative behaviors and situations.

The site makes it out that all black men are out to hurt all black women and that's not true at all.

grinder, you're a white racist faggot, this discussion has no place for you and your race bating idiocy. Go take your HIV pills and shutup. Let the real women talk, I rather read what they have to say.

I can talk about dating and marriage all day. This comes from making mistakes with men and the ongoing quest for wisdom.

I think boycotting black men is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I can see boycotting BET or a record company. But ALL men? You're saying they're all guilty of social ills. Some black men are great. I managed to find one, and I don't look like Beyonce or Iman. I'm probably average looking. Women share some of the blame for things not being nirvana, too. Maybe I'm not understanding the concept correctly. I'm just shaking my head in....I don't know what...

As for avoiding white men....Live for yourself. True, I don't think that most relationships with white men will workout unless he is a INDEPENDENT thinker who doesn't give a fuck. You can't have successful relationship with someone who thinks you are inferior. PERIOD. You do have many white dudes who are intelligent and live for their own happiness. If you find one of these, go be happy. They're rare though.

Although I'm straight and prefer Black and Hispanic members of the opposite sex, at the end of the day, I chose the person who was into me, the person, one of the few people who ever loved me as a friend first. Had he been a white person, and I thought it would be once, so be it. If you're lucky enough to find the right one for you, who feels the same way, hold on with everything you've got. Screw what everyone else thinks. You have to look at the person, not your momma...Regardless, it will be you two against the world.

I don't think its soo much bigotry that causes some women to go apeshit when men date white women. I think it's because they percieve that there is a very limited pool of male candidates. A white woman that goes into our community and dates one of our men is just more visible. I really don't think it's 100% bigotry all of the time. If she weren't white it would be "who does that weave wearing heiffer think she is..." you've heard the hating before. Not that some of the competition aren't racists. I've got a frenemy who has a habit of dating other friend's men behind their backs. It's almost like an addiction. She's not ugly or unaccomplished...she just thinks there is a limited pool of men...our friend's men. Still can't figure it out.

From my mistakes and dating men from all over the world, I've learned that most men have the same basic needs, although it's not as simple as feed me, f-me, and stfu.

Most men want women, they perfer ladies. Get a dictionary. You do not have to be wealthy, a supermodel, a Harvard Professoror anything else. It's about class and character. Money can't buy that. Men tend to want someone who is on their team, makes them the priority once married, and is attractive in their eyes. Don't despair if you think you're a hideous chut, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Turn off the tv and throw away the mags. There are probably very few men, maybe one that's perfect for you. Just smile, leave your female friends at home (they intimidate guys and may not really be your friends) and dress in a classy manner in public. i.e. not Britney Spears, Lil Kim or Lady GAGA. Just trust me. Don't be a doormat, but don't be a loud, uncouth, common Ball Buster...unless he's into S&M....another story. Please put vaseline on your teeth and learn to smile if you're a grad of the school of hard knocks.

Men don't like a perpetual victim. They like feeling like the warrior rescuerer or knight, but not 24/7. Get your stuff together before you find Mr. Right, or at least do the best you can. (i.e. education, health/fittness, mental health, whatever.) Be Ms. Right.

Keep your moral standards high. If it's marriage you want, only go for someone who would like to get married someday. Ditch the players if that's not your goal.

The problems we face don't magically go away if we marry. They may get worse sometimes. It's how you two handle them together.

If you want a great man, you have to be a great woman. You have to become the bait for what you want. Go where nice men, or your type of man can be found. PAL, art class, school, church, hiking club whatever. He's most likely not at the bar or club. He's not at court at a CHSUP or parole hearing (unless he's the bailiff, court reporter, lawyer, cop or judge.) Don't settle for the bottom feeders, whatever you do.

FN: I do believe that marriage via the support of ones spouse can eliminate problems. Married men tend to thrive and live longer than unmarried men. I honestly DO think that a married Black man with a criminal record will have more opportunities to get himself together then if he was single.

The commitment aspect shows that people are in it through thick and thin...Marriage isn't always easy is far better than a life of one night stands and random screws. And I think it will better suit women and men for success.

It's also my experience that GOOD male friends that are gay tend to give great relationship/sex tips and keep you honest. May not be the case for all of your friends that meet this description, but for me, many did. I'd level with him before some of my female friends that may really be frenemies or worse.

Damn! Smashed The Tiny Black Box, I am not Star Jones,and Anon97, you all should be nio "The View"...no, check that; Oprah, kicking knowledge like this to folks.

That was profound.

Grinder, grinder, grinder. I think I have told you this before: some things, when it comes to race relations in A-merry-ca, will never be fair. Why? Because this is what our history created. And now we are living with the consequences of it. Some thiings, when it comes to race, are so nuanced, that it would take more than a string of comments on a blog to figure it out.

I have no problem with interracial relationsships, but when you have black men who exclude black women from their dating pool, that's a problem. I know love is blind, and if you meet someone who happens to be white and fall in love, fine. (Although see what Smashed The Tiny...said) But don't say I don't date black women because of XY&Z. That is just plain ignorant. Now the flip side of that is sisters who say that they are boycotting black men because of XY&Z. That's just as ignorant as far as I am concerned, and the ladies up-thread said it all far more eloquently than I ever could.

I can empathize with the women who feel the need to be loyal to black men due to the fact that they were raised to seek out somebody who was like them. I feel the same way in many aspects about black women. I just want somebody that I can relate to but I understand why some black females feel mistreated by black men. I honestly believe that the majority of the black male community has good intentions towards black females but it is always that slight minority of us that many black women have the "pleasure" of interacting with. I feel that nobody can understand me like a black woman but at the same I undertand why some of thewm are frustrated with being pigeonholed into dating just one race. My thing is if somebody does you wrong, don't hold an entire group responsible. I don't think boycotting black men, white men, or any other type of man is going to make an already negative situation better.

PART ONEI for one am tired of boys who play video games, make babies they don't want to take care of etc...I could go on and on.

I prefer men who are real mean, who take care of things, work, don't do drugs, aren't racist (and there are so many racists on this blog alone) etc.

I don't care for black boys, most of them are just that, boys.

i am a professional, black woman who is interested in other professional men (not players). Why has being a player come to be cool in our community? Why does hip hop romanticize and glamorize guns, violence, misogyny, drugs...We have lost much of the beauty of the music.

There are other cultures that culturally and historically appreciate their women. Why cannot the BC be that way?

I totally understand and I think most self loving black women can understand it as well. Not that there aren't good black guys out there, I prefer to not search a haystack for a needle. Too many of our women have bought into the "this is how it's supposed to be reality" of their men playing around. It's become the norm and they know no different. How wonderful for black men right? How sad for black women.

With all that being said, I have been partnered with a wonderful man outside my race and have been with him for 10 years. We will marry as soon as the LGBTQ2S community is allowed to marry. Not "queer", that's rude FN. Social justice minded goes beyond rhetoric, it's about equal access. Our choice has to not be part of the privileged masses until all groups can marry. And I hope that day comes soon, for all of us. I would love to be married!

PART IIAs a university professor whose research is in the intersection of race/class and education, I am saddened by the "men" our boys are seeing as role models. Of course, dealing in generalizations can be dangerous, but I am saddened by Black men's behavior (and women's). I agree in part with UTS in that we have broken so many boundaries and we are in high places etc. And that makes me proud. However, I have very little use for most black men. There are great ones out there, not sure if you are yet or not Field, because your posts are so one sided (you tend to cader to a few folks). However, there are some amazingly smart folks on here who I LOVE reading their posts (Constructive and AB) come to mind. I may not agree with these folks, but they are smart and less racist than many. UTS makes many great points (and I disagree with him most of the time time). But that disagreement does not negate intelligent passion.

Well, I have rambled long enough. I am not even bothering to check typos, been up all night with this H1NI business, so am groggy on medicine and have never posted on here before. I am a stat in the form of a lurker.

I leave you with this folks. Think about your daughters or young ladies who are important to you. BW have been programmed to act and behave a certain way by BM. In many areas of the BC, as I said, it has become the norm for player behavior and many young girls I work with say things like "that's just how bros are" etc. BW are the most repressed group there is and I would argue that it's not because of "whitey" but because of BM. Just turn on a hip hop radio station and listen to some ho music. What self appreciating group addresses their women as ho's. Is that what you want for your daughters? Our little girls are being taught to act slutty, and not love themselves etc. A girl told me just the other day, "my dad works at X (insert a company here where the dad makes 6 figures) and he makes lots of money, but we listen to his music on my ride to school and I am worried about finding a boyfriend one day when all men are hustlers" Due to the hustla music dad was playing. She was being programmed by her father's music to relent to the fairy tale notion of love, affection, marriage and forgo this honest and sincere dream to be in a relationship with a hustla. Please, BM don't care about their women or girls or they would stand up. Real men stand up, they don't write a blog. They stand up for their children, as a community, strong and value their women.

I want to add that boycotting black men is not the proper response to feelings of romantic loneliness -- I wish the site creators were honest enough to create a site that focused on women valuing themselves enough so they can avoid negative behaviors and situations.

And these behaviors are learned in childhood by our own BC dumb ass. Although I don't agree with the Love Your People poster mostly, I do agree with her in the fact that how can can women learn to value themselves (as youngsters) when both black men and women do not value themselves. Children learn from us shit for brains.

Well somebody got mistreated more than once,.. ahem..Do You Really Love Your People?

It might just be your fault.

I have a son. He is/will be nothing like the degenerates you describe. He goes to a boy's school. You've managed to insult all of those young men. You are exhibiting the ball busting attitude I described earlier. Our men, and yes they're out there if you don't scare them away, shouldn't put up with negativity.

I'd be horrified if my future DIL had such negative views about her future male children. What are you doing to contribute to the problems? Clearly it's something. The young men in my church, aren't players. They're fine examples of well raised young men, saying "yes ma'am and no sir." None of them have bastard kids. All of them have jobs or some sort of kiddie business. High standards are set for them. I won't let anyone insult my son, or the good boys in the community. You don't, as you said, like being disrespected daily either.

Don't forget, children can be molded. Just because one is listening to foul music today, doesn't mean they'll never see the error of their ways. Kids rise or fall to our expectations. Give them a chance to grow.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to let anyone put the good men and boys out there down. Society does that daily. Our men will soar when we expect them to lead, guide and provide. How about treating them with the respect and courtesy you'd like for your daughters until they give you a non-imaginary reason to do otherwise.

Not that there aren't good black guys out there, I prefer to not search a haystack for a needle.

Clearly you were looking in all of the wrong places. Maybe you just prefer men of other races. Fine, just be honest about that and don't trash our warriors. The good ones need our support and praise.

I'm glad you found someone. With all of that bitterness, I'm rather shocked that you didn't project it onto the bloke you're seeing. He hasn't run yet.

Please, BM don't care about their women or girls or they would stand up. Real men stand up, they don't write a blog. They stand up for their children, as a community, strong and value their women.

Now you claim to be and "educated woman." If so, you would be familiar with the phrase. "The pen is mightier than the sword."

If books were never written, how would we pass along knowledge? Think back to the antebellum period. Imagine if Frederick Douglass, Harriet Jacobs, Sojouner Truth, Etc. never picked up a pen, nor spoke out and stood up for the defenseless. Would the American Revolution have taken place if not for firey pamphleteers...the bloggers of their day. We need all sorts of warriors. Teachers, writers, soldiers, sailors, bankers, fathers, grandfathers, businessmen, etc. Some blog, some volunteer, some raise their kids...a huge job within itself. We're all interdependent. If we're doing the right thing for our family and community, we're standing up.

Blogs and bloggers open people to new ideas. You have bloggers that alert us about missing children of color that aren't seen on your beloved Fox News...That's a way of protecting and standing up for children and women you'll never meet. Many bloggers, men and women, alert us to take political and social action...that's a method of standing up for something. We a subject to controlled propaganda in MSM. I'm grateful for field, grinder, AB, and many others whether or not I always agree with them.They may not be able to fly out to Jacksonville from Tacoma to help out. This may be their way of doing it.

Some militant feminism IS HARMFUL, especially to our boys. Equal pay for equal work still isn't a reality. Bitter, churlish, nags use FEMINISM not to improve the lives of downtrodden women, but to BASH BLACK MEN.

ENOUGH.

It's not just the girls that need protecting. Boys do as well. Look at what is going on with our young men. If you can't offer a solution, STFU and just give them positive encouragement.

Are you black? Using the term "swing like a monkey?"

If your not, and I'm sure you're not, your opinion on dating black men is the category of "who gives a rat what you think."

Smashed,Not sure what church you go too, but at my church we don't treat others the way you do. I guess, what does Jesus' love truly mean to you is what I have to wonder. I don't think Jesus would write some of what you have written.

My son has Down's Syndrome. It's a horrific disease that has put him and all of us through years of hell. I pray your family never endures anything like that. It hurt reading how you used the term special. If your child had DS, you might rethink using that term.

Reason again, that I don't go to church and despise religion. If church folks say such damning things and throw around terms like retarded or "special" then that's reason enough to not belong to church. Most Christians are faux Christians. And I thought they were supposed to be a light to the world...a dark one maybe.

[quote]"Are you tired of watching the demise of the black community? Are you tired of watching our women being degraded and disrespected all over television? Are you tired of purchasing music for your children that promotes gangs, drugs and the killing of other black youth such as themselves? Are you sick of our youth allowing themselves to become a shell of what they could be? Are you sick of our black men that leave our race and marry outside our race profiting off the black community while they in turn, turn their backs on us? Are you ready to say something about it? [/quote]

I am impressed that you didn't blame all of this on Black Conservatives.

The bottom line of it all is that our present Male/Female situation in our communities is a derivative of the present CULTURE that is contained within.

We need to develop and rationalize the "Community Cultural Consciousness and Competency Domain" to address these problems. Most certainly we are not going to VOTE our way into healthy Black Male/Female relationships. Nor does Ron Christie have anything to do with the present dysfunction.

No smashed, I would never judge you like that. I just always hope that Christians ask "What would Jesus do" before acting. God Bless. If you are looking for a fight, you will find none here. I am a Child of Christ and will not engage.

The paragraph you quoted is very embarrassing to me as a Black woman. Sounds like the author is begging Black men to "come home" and not date outside of the race.

Black women have to get used to the fact that Black men can date/marry out freely. We, Black women, do not own Black men. They are not ours.

Similarly, Black men must recognize that Black women are also free to marry out.

I guess the bottom line is that Black men choose to exercise their interracial relationship card more vigorously than Black American women are willing to.

This is not the case in the United Kingdom where Black women date/marry out almost as much as Black men (33% of Black women in England marry out, while 50% of Black men do so).

I would advise Black American women to stop begging Black men to do things. If grown Black men want to date out, they will continue to do so. Stop embarrassing yourselves and acting like what Black men do or don't do is so important to your lives.

Get on with your own lives and open your dating options. Date good men -- don't let race be a barrier. Black men certainly do not let race stop them from falling in love and marrying. In the US Black men marry out 14%, while Black women only marry out 4%.

I am happily married to a Black man, but would not hesitate to marry out if I had to. Good men come in all colors!!

I wish we could still use the English language with out controversy. There are still words that retain their original definition and one has to view the context to discern meaning. Language is more than words.

When Smashed said "That's funny. Maybe she's "special" or likes being treated like a doormat." In no way did I think she was comparing her to a person with Downs Syndrome. That may be because when I learned the meaning of the word, that was before it was ever associated with DS.

Jazz stylist and author Abbey Lincoln managed to capture this exact same offensiveness as exhibited by heterosexual white women, in her enraged classic essay entitled “Who Will Revere The Black Woman?”, published in the renowned womanist anthology The Black Woman, edited by Toni Cade (1970):

“We are the women whose bars and recreation halls are invaded by flagrantly disrespectful, bigoted, simpering, amoral, emotionally unstable, outcast, maladjusted, nyphomaniacal, condescending white women...in desperate and untiring search of the “frothing-at-the-mouth-for-a white-woman, strong backed, sixty-minute hot black”.... We are the women who, upon protesting this invasion of our privacy and sanctity and sanity, are called “jealous”, and “evil”, and “small-minded”, and “prejudiced”...

When a white man “likes colored girls”, his woman (the white woman) is the last one he wants to know about it. Yet, seemingly, when a Negro “likes white girls”, his woman (the Black woman) is the first he wants to know about it. White female rejects and social misfits are flagrantly flaunted in our faces as the ultimate in feminine pulchritude. Our women are encouraged by our own men to strive to look and act as much like the white female image as possible, and only those who approach that “goal” in physical appearance and social behavior are acceptable. At best, we are made to feel that we are poor imitations and excuses for white women.

Evil? Evil, you say? The Black woman is hurt, confused, frustrated, angry, resentful, frightened, and evil! Who in this hell dares suggest that she should be otherwise? These attitudes only point up her perception of the situation and her healthy rejection of the same.”

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/black-love-gray-lies.html

&

icon/legend/lesbian gwendolyn brooks:

As an American Studies graduate student at Yale University, Goldsby continued to study lynching’s representation in literature. She became interested in Gwendolyn Brooks, whose “Ballad of Pearl May Lee” is the centerpiece of A Spectacular Secret’s preface. That poem, among the most controversial in Brooks’s first published volume of poetry in 1945, tells how the speaker’s lover, Sammy, was burned to death for his consensual tryst with a white woman. “You paid with your hide and my heart, Sammy boy, / For your taste of pink and white honey,” Pearl May Lee says, fueled as much by sexual jealousy as by the fear and anger of a persecuted minority. Her rage is directed at Sammy’s murderers but also at Sammy himself.

Pearl May Lee’s is a side of lynching’s story that is seldom told. For Goldsby, the poem “shifted my thinking away from the lynched man to the lovers, wives, children, sisters, brothers, friends, and extended kin who survived lynching’s violence.” Literary works like Brooks’s poem, Goldsby argues, have stories to tell that are otherwise inaccessible. These stories shed new light on why the violence flourished and on how its survivors were affected. As Goldsby puts it, “Literature is particularly responsive to historical developments we can’t bear to admit shape the course of our lives.”

The late homosexual filmmaker Marlon Riggs was so much more honest than my former friend, even as he exclusively loved white men. In his legendary documentary “Tongues Untied”, Marlon painfully explained why he rejected Black men who had rejected him due to his homosexuality as a child. He spoke candidly and graphically about the demonic Black gaybashing pseudo-christians and the macho, sexist Black/closeted/bi-sexual peers who had made him feel sinful and sissyish, until he hated himself and everything else that was black.

http://aliciabanks.vox.com/library/post/black-love-gray-lies.html

Marlon perished with AIDS beside a white soulmate while, still, defiantly proclaiming that “Black men loving black men is a revolutionary act.” Even as he admitted that he was a broken and unfit soldier for such revolutionary battles. He was perfecting himself as he belatedly moved towards loving blackness, and he passionately encouraged others to do the same. That act itself is indeed revolutionary.

In “Tongues Untied”, Marlon spoke warmly of meeting his first whiteF lover who introduced him to a healthy homosexual love and kindness that became a white male addiction. Even as Marlon’s afrocentric critics blasted him for refusing to love black men (i.e.“If black men loving each other is revolutionary action, then why is Marlon not acting?”), Marlon accepted these criticisms with honesty, guilt, and grace.

I respected, loved, admired, excused, and understood Marlon for this. I hate that most Africans who hate their blackness make no such effort to be as honest and humble as Marlon. They display absolutely none of his integrity and courage as they arrogantly and ignorantly embrace toxic delusion and cowardly lies instead.

So many black lesbians live life even more eurocentrically than my former friend. They act like O. J. Simpsons in drag. In fact, they are so prevalent in gay spaces that I, and many other black lesbians, are often brazenly sexually harassed by white women who assume that we are also lesbian O.J.’s seeking their affections.

if asking i think what will happen is what has already happened, the women are turning to other women for love and affection. it appears the man is only needed for reproduction.

it's hard for me to believe these women cannot find the same in the arms of a man, or a black man, 'cause it's just hard for me to fathom such a possibility.

i won't sit here and ask any woman to lower her standards, i would never ask what i personally refuse. but i will ask that women look deeper within the heart and mind of a person and try to nurture that aspect to the forefront. it might make a difference.

if it doesn't then i guess they have no choice but to lower their standards. either that, or continue to share a man until they find them a good woman.

Wow. As someone who dates the rainbow, I admit, many brothers have issues you don't find in other races. But I think these come from problems in the Black community as whole-- poor education and the resulting lack of opportunities and mental health pathologies passed on from generation to generation.

Field and all, I have not read all comments, I'm afraid to. My thoughts and views may be bias and unapologetic when it comes to these type discussions. Please note that society started the bias towards black femalehood in the first place. Therefore, it has brought me to this point of outlook for self-love and survival. At the same token, take into consideration that my perspective and opinions may expand or totally revamp as I get older with wisdom/experience, or by changes in society. For now, I feel what I feel, and I am who I am - a black female living in an unfair, misogynistic and black-skin denigrated society/world. sorry for any grammatical errors.

I've always thought the website "boycottblackmen.com" was very misunderstood with a misleading title. I don't know if their mission has changed since 2-3 years ago, but people need to take time and read their mission statement. Of course there are GOOD black men, but they are not boycotting all black man, only a certain kind.

The kind who rise to their borrowed token thrown and wealth by walking on the necks of black women inside and out of their family circle and community. The kind who show their appreciation to black females all over by showcasing to the world how they don’t even desire black women. The kind that show little black girls why she shouldn’t even bother to conduct herself as ‘wife material’ because she’s not going to be chosen for a wife anyway. The kind who unfortunately become ‘role models’ for the wrong reasons and visually recruit other black males/black boys to worship and desire white flesh. Love sees no color, my ass.

And with all of that said, some of us don’t see how there’s even a slight connection with some of the lack of family structure, lack of unity, and overall denigration in the Black community because of the damaged mindset many of these black men perpetuate. It’s not just about money and fame, most of these men don’t even invest their energy, time or collective resources in the black communities. Again it's not all about money, but when it comes to the financial end of it, this is how I see it. A black man marrying a non-black female, will most likely take his resources away from black communities.....

The kind who rise to their borrowed token thrown and wealth by walking on the necks of black women inside and out of their family circle and community. The kind who show their appreciation to black females all over by showcasing to the world how they don’t even desire black women. The kind that show little black girls why she shouldn’t even bother to conduct herself as ‘wife material’ because she’s not going to be chosen for a wife anyway. The kind who unfortunately become ‘role models’ for the wrong reasons and visually recruit other black males/black boys to worship and desire white flesh. Love sees no color, my ass.

LI: This exactly what a poster this morning posted on and Tiny Black Box went ballistic. But I too totally agree. Keep up the fight.

Also, in example: Any little money these men designate towards charity, will be influenced by “Becky” and her family. Therefore, it’s likely cute little furry animals will end up having a new shelter with swimming pool therapy, or a country club in the suburbs will receive new golfing material. If it goes towards human charities, it may not be the ones that are quite accessible to poor black females who may need it as compared. Furthermore, others will give an entire village somewhere in Asia/Europe/South America the resources for the rest of their life – not even a village somewhere in Africa, mind you. And of course there are exceptions, but this is the general attitude.

However, you dare give me, a black female that opportunity, and you’ll see resources been given to schools, clinics, and various programs in the black community. I'm away not all black female may think like this either. However, this is one of the main reasons why white/non-black supremacist societies hate seeing resourceful white/non-black men marrying black women, and prefer to see wealthy black men take bed with non-black women. Most resourceful black men have proven themselves to be less threats to uplift the black race. They are of abandoners of their race as compared to any race of men. They are less respected globally but tolerated because of this evilness.

Also, these black men might tell you they are not responsible or obligated to black people etc. Yet, when they fall flat on their faces, watch the same black community,especially foolish black women expend energy and little resources in the name of saving a “black man”. I refuse to line their pockets, it goes against my interest as a black female, and they can all go to hell.

Look at Africa, black African villages along with black African women have made sacrifices for African sons/men to go abroad to educate themselves with hopes of them uplifting their people. Instead, most of them stay abroad, marry white women, uplift some other country, and send home a 1,000 pounds/dollars a year to their village, LOL. If half of these professional African men went back to Africa decades ago, I suspect many of the countries would not be so susceptible to inside tyranny, ignorance, pestilence and outside predators.

Those were just scenarios on the macro level, but what about the micro situations with individual familes who have black males dating outside the race only to ignore their own black mother while taking care of their white mother in law? I have much much much more to say, especially about other black females who "feel embarrass" and chastise other black women for pointing out these blatant disparities. But I only have a 15 min. break. I’ll be back!

"However, this is one of the main reasons why white/non-black supremacist societies hate seeing resourceful white/non-black men marrying black women, and prefer to see wealthy black men take bed with non-black women."

This is ridiculous.

There is no way you will convince me or anybody else that white supremacist societies prefer to see black men bedding white women.

It's still a red flag. The white men still hate bm/ww relationships regardless of the so-called "post-racial".

And sorry La, white men in general (there is always the David Bowie/Bill Cohen outlier) especially rich powerful ones are not dating black women.

If they were, you wouldn't have all these angry bitter sisters complaining about being abandoned by black men.

"Those were just scenarios on the macro level, but what about the micro situations with individual familes who have black males dating outside the race only to ignore their own black mother while taking care of their white mother in law."

"Are you sick of our black men that leave our race and marry outside our race profiting off the black community while they in turn, turn their backs on us?"

So now if I date outside of my race I'm turning my back on my community? This is an absolutely ridiculous assertion. You know what, and I'm going to sound like the angry brother here, but throughout my whole life I've wanted a good Black woman. I'm educated, I have a good job and I don't have a criminal record, but at every point and step in my life from the time I was you through college, grad school and professionally, Black women haven't been particularly interested in me regardless of whether I approached or made an attempts to talk, date, etc. This is not to say that I haven't dated Black women (in fact one of my longest relationships was with a Black woman), this is only to say that even the professional Black woman that I have approached and would date are always looking for something more...they're always looking for an athlete or a music producer or someone aspiring to be those things, or they want a thug or someone who straddles the line between being a thug and a professional. The typical professional brother that doesn't fit any of those molds doesn't stand a chance. That's just my opinion on things.

at uiuci saw white coaches make sure that the best prospects for the nba etc always had EXCLUSIVELY WF hostesses

we black hostesses and lesser bm jock prospects endured an apartheid of social events

they made sure their own daughters met only the bm ballers most destined to be rich

i resigned from this org when i realized it was not an honor but a clandestine co-ed pro ring...and these orgs exist on every campus

white men decide how many tigers will exist and they eclusively hook them up with elins and praise their unions...how many wm reporters are now saying "tiger woods abused his PERFECT BEAUTIFUL NORDIC PURE... wife elin"

see ray allen (who has a wf spouse) expertly depict this inthe film "he got game":

"i saw white coaches make sure that the best prospects for the nba etc always had EXCLUSIVELY WF hostesses."

You mean hookers, right?

Is that what you're aspiring to AB?

What does this have to do with what I'm talking about?

And I've hung out at pro-athlete favored DC area clubs like "Dream" "Republic Gardens" and "DC Live" where young fat butt sisters have no problem using their bodies and offers of sex to get next to professional athletes.

but i do not accept anyone who exlcusively dates people who do not look like them

Contrary to rumors, libel, and slander, I do not hate all interracial couples. I truly believe that love is always rare and always a gift. As a lesbian, I would be a hypocrite to reject any love between any consenting adults. I am no hypocrite. However, I am a realist.

Many people that I adore would never have been born if not for interracial lovers: Bob Marley, Huey Newton, Halle Berry, Shemar Moore, Chico DeBarge, Lisa Bonet, Sade, Frederick Douglas... Many people I admire have wed or dated white persons: Quincy Jones, Alfre Woodard, Lena Horne, Pam Grier, Marlon Riggs, Lani Guinier, Labi Siffre, Alice Walker...

"Musicologist, activist, and cyber columnist is how Alicia Banks describes herself. But she's better known to her fans and detractors as a popular talk radio personality. She is the producer, creator, and host of two radio shows...Alicia heats up early morning airwaves with her take-no -prisoners approach. But her shock-jock comparisons end with her eclectic mix of music and anti-racist interpretation...." GIRLFRIENDS MAGAZINE 9/1997

[quote]And with all of that said, some of us don’t see how there’s even a slight connection with some of the lack of family structure, [/quote]

La Incognita:

You are attesting to your belief in the problematic "family structure" that allows people to fall through the cracks and to be "socialized" with a consciousness that is destructive to our community.

I challenge all of you to go beyond documenting THAT there is a problem and even WHO you think originally caused the problem and instead make note that a BLACK BABY BORN ON THIS DAY will have his world experiences shaped most profoundly by the adults who are closes to him. Thus the main challenge is in fielding a new system and consciousness by which these adults actively manage the immediate community and fight collectively to keep damaging and ignorant messages from his view in the name of producing DIRECTED OUTCOMES.

[quote] lack of unity,[/quote]

When you say "Lack Of Unity" amongst Black people please detail the domain in which this is so?

Voting? HardlySupport for a given set of policies within our community? There are fewer people who are more "unified".

I think the concept of "unity" or lack there of is not the problem. The bigger challenge is WHAT ARE YOU "UNIFIED" behind and is there a SYSTEM in place that can identify some of the assumptions that the masses are "unified" behind, show them why this has not been effective and replace what is POPULARLY agreed upon but not effective with an alternative strategy that IS EFFECTIVE at carrying out these directed outcomes?

What is POPULAR is not always what is EFFECTIVE.

(Filled Negro and Steve will read this and swear that I just handed out a REPUBLICAN campaign flier as I try to "trick" Black people. :-/ )

[quote] and overall denigration in the Black community because of the damaged mindset many of these black men perpetuate[/quote]

La Incognita - Of the messages that are seen as threatening to our people and thus REBUKED which of them receive more attack by the Black Establishment?

The one's that are socially corrosive to this order that you speak of as needed. (IE: A rapper telling of how he screwed 10 Black women because they were easy?)

OR the ones that are a threat to their lock on their POLITICAL and IDEOLOGICAL positions? (Thus make note of the message about "Fox New's Black Republicans two stories down).

The bottom line of it all, In Cognita - certain operatives are allowing certain things to happen WITHIN THE BLACK COMMUNITY that are materially damaging to Black people while focusing on others threats that are proportionally irrelevant.

My question is: When are you all going to go against the Black Establishment and have them stop USING YOU to advance their own agenda which has PROVEN to be something that is not in line with our community's needs.

The fact that we are still having these conversations about the basics while they seek to have us happy by looking at the "Portraits hanging on the wall" of the elected officials that they have rendered as PROOF OF OUR RACIAL ADVANCEMENT is evidence enough of your having been USED for their agenda.

"I've heard from several honest white people that if a white is known to have dated blacks or especially a white guy who has dated a black woman, certain whites would never go near them again."

Most white folks don't date outside of their color by choice; when it comes to being "loyal to your race", white people are about as "loyal" as they come. That being said, I get the feeling that these "honest white people" you speak of live exclusively in your head. I'm a white guy who frequently dated outside my race and no white women ever accused me of being "tainted" by former black lovers. And I live in the south.

Also, I'm not sure why so many commenters believe that disrespecting women is the exclusive domain of bm and bc. Have you seen the multitude of ho clothes in Latin American stores, The hundreds of "All Asian Staff" massage parlours, Arab women being forced to cover themselves head to toe, Sorority girls takin' the "walk of shame"? Have you ever read Maxim? Seems like society as a whole has some issues w/ disrespecting women. Black men seem to be about as bad as everyone else.

And, for all the black women out there: you are beautiful. Don't let a man of any race tell you different. I married a black woman and have never been happier. The right guy is out there for you, so don't be "boycotting" anyone.

"And sorry La, white men in general (there is always the David Bowie/Bill Cohen outlier) especially rich powerful ones are not dating black women."

Yes, they are. Those couples don't get the same shine as bm/ww couples, but they are out there.

You actually came her and proved my point for me. Instead of posting something constructive, you went right to insulting bw, essentially saying 'White and Hispanic men don't want your bitter asses anyway!"

What's the point? I married a black woman because we chose each other. But when I was dating I never got the a racial dating inquiry from a white girl (although I did from other ethnicities, but I think they were feeling out if I had a fetish).

Boycott Black men! Are they serious? Boycotting BM is like boycotting myself. Why would any sane human being want to boycott themselves or is it even possible. Count me out, I love the BM from the top of his head to his toe nails. There is no better man for me. We've gone through too much to break up now. I'll never lost faith in him and will always be by his side through WHATEVER! Boycott BM! The most insane idea I've heard since Tony Brown came up with Tony Dollars!

"There is no way you will convince me or anybody else that white supremacist societies prefer to see black men bedding white women."

Of course they do. Remember, it's about resources. In the early days of slavery planters encouraged black men to be with white women. The objection to miscegenation was not about the purity of white women, though of course they couched it in those terms, it was about the loss of property because the child of a white woman would be born free.

Black men with white women supports both white supremacy and white economic supremacy which is more important. After all, in most households women control the purse strings and have the buying power. That's why you see Heidi and Seal all over the place even though Heidi only has a hack reality show and Seal hasn't had a hit since the first Batman movie. Interestingly enough, when Tom Clancy (Yes, that Tom Clancy) married Colin Powell's (Who was Secretary of State at the time) niece there wasn't a peep in the media and I have yet to see a picture of them together.

According to A. J. Calhoun, however, all planters of Maryland did not manifest so much ire because of this custom among indentured servants. “Planters, said he, “sometimes married white women servants to Negroes in order to transform the Negroes and their offspring into slaves.12a This was in violation of the ancient unwritten law that the children of a free woman, the father being a slave, follow the status of their mother and are free. The custom gave rise to an interesting case. “Irish Nell,” one of the servants brought to Maryland by Lord Baltimore, was sold by him to a planter when he returned to England. Following the custom of other masters who held white women as servants, he soon married her to a Negro named Butler to produce slaves. Upon hearing this, Baltimore used his influence to have the law repealed but the abrogation of it was construed by the Court of Appeals not to have any effect on the status of her offspring almost a century later when William and Mary Butler sued for their freedom on the ground that they descended from this white woman. The Provincial Court had granted them freedom but in this decision the Court of Appeals reversed the lower tribunal on the ground that “Irish Nell” was a slave before the measure repealing the act had been passed. This case came up again 1787 when Mary, the daughter of William and Mary Butler, petitioned the State for freedom. Both tribunals then decided to grant this petition.13

grinder, you're a white racist faggot, this discussion has no place for you and your race bating idiocy. Go take your HIV pills and shutup. Let the real women talk, I rather read what they have to say.

Ha ha ha ha ha!! ROTFLMAO!! Well, I suppose it's a good thing that homophobia is so rampant among black people; at least black people who are attracted to the same gender can cross racial lines without additional hassle, secure in the knowledge that most of their fellow blacks are glad to see 'em go.

People should be able to form sexual attachments with whoever interests them, period, and not face the sort of hostility, fear, insecurity, and outright stupidity that is rampant here whenever the subject comes up. On this issue, when I am not laughing I genuinely feel sorry for you. Wow.

I would advise Black American women to stop begging Black men to do things. If grown Black men want to date out, they will continue to do so. Stop embarrassing yourselves and acting like what Black men do or don't do is so important to your lives.

You are right! It's embarrassing! People laugh at the "black man come home" slogan; it makes black women look desperate as hell. Black men are not going to stop chasing white and light bright women. That cat has long ran out of the bag.

Actually it was the planter's wife who was creeping with the "Mandingo" in order to get back at him for getting busy with his Black mistress. When the White woman got pregnant and had a Black baby - they poisoned her.

Think about it folks - What ultimate control don't we have over our consciousness today that causes is to revert back to SLAVERY as the point where our present "cultural consciousness" was defined?

Thus are we suffering from the "Damage Of Slavery" that continues today OR from THE LACK OF MANAGEMENT to mold a different result - despite our present state of freedom?

I really hate these negative toned causes, that are out to uplift a group by putting down another group. Black men are black too, and just because they don't agree with these outdated ideals, doesn't make them any less black.

I would be appalled if I knew of a similar campaign out to boycott black women because we were gold diggers, uneducated, loud, fat, and leeches to society. Every race has its good and bad, and instead of putting the pressure where it belongs, on the society that continues to treat black men as less than human, these women took up the time to treat the victim like a whore that deserves what's coming to her.

I understand that it's hard struggling with white supremacy and at times you don't know who to get angry at, but turning it inward, to our fathers, uncles, our brothers, and friends is not the answer.

Maybe if these women weren't out spreading bitterness they could concentrate better on finding love, chemistry, and happiness outside the race struggle. Lord knows I don't want to marry a black man just so we can save the world.

it is white supremacy and its contextS that define all interracial relos as black + white

ditto

and

many black gayvbashers view homosexuality as a white diseaseeven though it is ancientand preceded euro invasions in africa

Why is interracial love so often restricted to black and white unions? How many other beautiful races of persons are on the earth? Why does the interracial propaganda that bombards us never seem to promote other racial mixes as adamantly and expressly as it does black and white unions? White supremacy rules all mixed equations. Thus, whiteness must always be in the mix.

Race is complex. Racism intensifies that complexity. Mixed race persons should see their reflections in many races. Yet, even they most often seek only the whitest lovers they can find. Because even their exotic blood is no shield from mundane white supremacy.

Homosexuality is ancient and universal. Africa is the First World. The first humans were African. Thus, clearly, the first homosexual humans were African also.

I cannot express the EXCRUCIATING emotional pain of being denied my heritage and homeland because I am a lesbian. It is a brutal act of bigotry that stings my very soul. Gaybashers, like homosexuals, are everywhere. Yet, I have NEVER heard a white gaybasher tell a white lesbian that she is not a true European because she is gay.

Question Alicia: You make comments about people who only date interracially and exclude others of their race. You seem to see this as not natural; yet, you only date women and exclude men. Most people consider that not natural. Aren't you the pot calling the kettle black?

If you mean anecdotal evidence, I dont have any. Around here, you see more bm/ww than bw/wm. From my observations, though, when bw/wm do hook up, they are generally on equal footing. Neither group is willing to "date down". With bm/ww, you see many normal looking bm with overweight, trashy looking ww. These men appear to be dating down, but I suppose in their minds, any kind of white is a step up. You don't generally see average bm with middle/upper middle class ww. Bm don't generally "attain" those women until they attain some kind of wealth.

As someone mentioned, IR marriage stats in Europe are about equal when it comes to bm/ww and bw/wm. I spent time in Paris and the wm were very forward. It actually surprised me. Here in the US (before I was married), wm smiled at me and were (still are) very polite, but they seemed shy and timid and unsure about approaching me.

I said that to say that clearly, wm aren't repelled by bw, because as we can see in other parts of the world, they are marrying them in relatively large numbers.

I think the baggage of racism, white supremacy, race loyalty, an relatability is what hinders bw/wm relationships in the US.

Some may look at this as women complaining and you are right, and sometimes it is good to complain. There are some valid concerns that women have about men.

Part of the problem is lack of communication, and the need to control and this includes men and women. It is the age old battle of the sexes which I am tired of participating in myself.

Marriage does not cross my mind because I am not interested in becoming someone's housekeep or picking up where a guy's mother left off. I am big believer in supporting one another and being a self-sufficient person. I need to know that I am not able to do something that my partner can pick up the slack. There are some very immature people both men and women, but more men some to have corner the market on immaturity. I think if we realize that it is about the relationship than our egos about wants to have the upperhand, people would have better marriages in generally. However, there are some black men to seem to have an old-fashioned view about marriage when it really did not exist as black women had always work in this society. I think black women are tired of doing everything alone including housework and rearing children.

Uptown Steve...Please highlight the comments where I'm bashing black men on this blog. You will not be able to find it because it's not true. deal with what I'm giving you not the tape loop in your head.

Stop conflating my points with what you may want to believe. You wrote:

I encourage black women to date outside the race.

It just really doesn't seem to be a viable option for them.

My response to your opinion on this is it may be rooted in the black women you know who may believe it's not a viable option. But IN MY WORLD, it's not only a viable option -- it's reality because the world is a huge place and american men (of every race) aren't the only ones that exist for intimacy and companionship.

Maj cries.... "instead of putting the pressure where it belongs, on the society that continues to treat black men as less than human."

Good lord woman, haven't you learned anything? You type bw are the reason why bw and bg are suffering by the hands of bm in the bc. Did you read what la and anon 1:31 and a couple others said? pay attention woman.

it is white supremacy and its contextS that define all interracial relos as black + white

Hmm, so if a black and a Mexican screw each other, "white supremacy" is in the mix. ROTLFMAO!! More seriously, if I were heterosexual and inclined to want to cross racial lines, my biggest worry would be in dealing with craziness from black people, some portion of whom are totally wigged out about the issue.

"More seriously, if I were heterosexual and inclined to want to cross racial lines, my biggest worry would be in dealing with craziness from black people, some portion of whom are totally wigged out about the issue."

Yeah grinder.

And I guess white folks are all past race and flourishing in the new "post-racial" millenium.

Tell that to all the white women who have been disowned by their families for marrying black men.

And I've read horror stories about how racist the white gay community is.

There was a recent piece in the Washington Post and the black vs white gat scene in heavily gay Washington, DC.

At white gay clubs, when too many blacks start showing up, the music format is changed to country and western.

I was married for 22 years to a WM. I am a WF. My x cheated on me with many BFs over the years and married the last one. The woman he married has never dated BMs (according to my X and mutual friends, including another WM friend of mine she hit on).

Black men have been known to be violent against White men who date Black females as well - there are two cases that come to my mind.

One in New York where a gang of Black men attacked a White guy who was dating a Black female to the point he was hospitalized.

Second, the murder of an interracial couple - Black female and White male - where racial slurs were found in the home and the couple was tortured.

So this idea that Black men are okay with Black females dating out may not be true across the board.

As I said before, Black males and females are free to date out. Do so and stop complaining about interracial relationships. Get on with your lives.

And, as I said before, in England, Black women marry out almost as much as Black men. Don't know why this is so different in the US. Black American women should get out there and date more - don't stick to Black men. Find yourself a good man - period.

"ROTFLAMO!! I'm not sure what's funnier, the idea itself or the fact that you would believe it!"

Read for yourself Tinkerbell...

"For 16 years, it has served as a sanctuary for a small community of black gays and lesbians who say they feel shunned from all directions -- by black men and women who give them cutting looks of disapproval, by mainstream black ministers who condemn homosexuality, and by white gays who make them feel unwelcome in subtle ways, such as switching from hip-hop to country music in a club when too many black men hit the dance floor."

"but uptown steve...what about the white women who haven't been disowned for marrying a black man?"

@I am not Star JonesI don't know how old UPS is but if he's 40 plus he may be very familiar with the scenario of white women being rejected by their families and other white people for marrying a black man.

I am 57 years old and I TOTALLY agree with UPS. I realize that the situation may have changed for people in their 20s and maybe even 30s but I distinctly recall divorced white women who had biracial children being considered UNFIT for dating/marriage by "respectable" white men. A white man wouldn't even say 'hi' to a white woman with a biracial child. This was the 1970s and 1980s. I clearly remember that. It may be different now.

The Prince of Liechtenstein is married to a black woman. Peter Norton, of Norton anti-virus fame is married to a black woman. Carlos Santana was married to a black woman for years. Sean Penn is dating Jessica White. Mark Ecko, of Ecko clothing fame is married to a black woman. John Voight and Diana Ross. Wolfgang Puck is married to a black woman. Alex Wek is married to a famous architect. Former Sec. of Defense William Cohen is married to a black woman. Matt Stone, co-creator of South Park is married to a black woman. The actor Rick Gonzalez is engaged to a black woman. Actor Garrette Dillihunt, (No Country for Old men) is married to a black woman. Actor Luke Goss (won a British award for best newcomer) is married to a black woman. Famous punk singer Iggy Pop has lived with a black woman for years. Rapper Paul Wall is married to a black woman.

There is no way you will convince me or anybody else that white supremacist societies prefer to see black men bedding white women.

It's still a red flag. The white men still hate bm/ww relationships regardless of the so-called "post-racial".

tru for the most part Uts.But you must look at the socioeconomic aspect of it, millionaires,athletes and such are far more beneficial to whites who have millions at stake with these Black professionals. In these rare albeit many cases of professional Black males dating and marrying ww, they, in most cases recieve a temporary pass from whites because their socioeconomic status trumps their Blackness at the moment. In most cases, when their (bm) time is up, in other words, when the corporation makes enough off of them, they will be reduced to the diseased pizzle they think of us as. For every Black professional that leaves Blackness they not only eventually destroy themselves, they destroy a whole generation (father/son, daughter, spouse (baby mama), it destroys the family by creating a downward spiral of failures and lowered expectations. The absense of a father and husband/mate makes the family unit weak, not to mention it makes the child's mother look easy or cheap in the eyes of society.I have watched programs where the victims of horrific crimes will actually talk candidly about the perpetrator as if they couldn't understand why they would do such a thing. Whites as a direct given, will not contribute to degradation of their race in any way shape or form. Let the same white crime victim been victimized by a Black perp, and you will get a completely different story.

If we don't love each other, who the fuck will?

Laincog...

I feel you, your comments were deep. Everything you said is precisely why I am the man I am today, and I try my best to exibit it through my children. I have a 2 yo daughter, and that's my heart right there. I always make it a point to show her how a woman is supposed to be treated through examples day to day interacting with my wife. Lainc, you got a real warrior spirit. Keep fighting the good fight sis. The Black community needs more freedom fighters and positive role models, ie ourselves to raise these kids right.We are our children's favorite and best role models.

AB- I know we haven't agreed in the past, but I have read your posts here, and I agree and respect your pov on the topics today.I'm a het BM married to a professional BW, but I have dealt with hatred and psychological warfare to know the hurt of being a black male in amerikkka. I may not understand your fight, but I respect you.

Actually, all the women here brought alot of jewels to the table.At least it's feels good to be Black on FN's blog.

grinder, "I'd love to see what this blog and its commenters would have to say if white people threatened to boycott other whites who married non-whites."

Love is mutual, no one can threaten or force someone to love them. But many bw try to do just that. They threaten and try to frighten bm into loving them. It’s like trying to take someone hostage for love. It is a sign of very low self-worth and low self-esteem, which is not very attractive to ANY man.

Field claims that he never knew things were so bad between bm and bw-guess he’s been too focused on white racism. 'Some' bw comments over the past years on this blog towards bm has been of the blaming denigrating emasculating type. What bm, GOOD OR BAD- would want that? You have to real desperate for that kind of woman, which seems to be the type on the sites FN referred to.

I find it really fascinating that as the barriers to interracial sex have reduced among whites in recent decades, the black population seems to grow only more paranoid and dysfunctional about it. Very strange.

I find it really fascinating that as the barriers to interracial sex have reduced among whites in recent decades, the black population seems to grow only more paranoid and dysfunctional about it. Very strange.

At least on this blog, I should say. As with many things, I'm not sure how representative comments here are of black people in general.

Most of the black men that I know entered this world through the womb of a black woman. NOW what that woman did with that male baby may shed some light on the "Boycott Black Men" sister's complaint. Unfortunately black men do not birth and raise black male children. Blaming young black men for their irresponsible behavior is simply blaming the victim.

Field, every wedding between two mature responsible AA adults that I have attended, has always included fathers, mothers and brothers and sisters of the couple, demonstrating STRONG FAMILY support for these individuals as they stand before the Altar.

Redundant as he is, Tyler Perry has it right. Strong family ties create strong stable people who bring a high degree of potential success and survivability to their relationships. I guess that this is what a lot of sisters are looking for, but the real question is are they looking in the right places?

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