Welcome

Welcome to the POZ/AIDSmeds Community Forums, a round-the-clock discussion area for people with HIV/AIDS, their friends/family/caregivers, and
others concerned about HIV/AIDS. Click on the links below to browse our various forums; scroll down for a glance at the most recent posts; or join in the
conversation yourself by registering on the left side of this page.

Privacy Warning: Please realize that these forums are open to all, and are fully searchable via Google and other search engines. If you are HIV positive
and disclose this in our forums, then it is almost the same thing as telling the whole world (or at least the World Wide Web). If this concerns you, then do not use a
username or avatar that are self-identifying in any way. We do not allow the deletion of anything you post in these forums, so think before you post.

The information shared in these forums, by moderators and members, is designed to complement, not replace, the relationship between an individual and his/her own
physician.

All members of these forums are, by default, not considered to be licensed medical providers. If otherwise, users must clearly define themselves as such.

Forums members must behave at all times with respect and honesty. Posting guidelines, including time-out and banning policies, have been established by the moderators
of these forums. Click here for “Am I Infected?” posting guidelines. Click here for posting guidelines pertaining to all other POZ/AIDSmeds community forums.

We ask all forums members to provide references for health/medical/scientific information they provide, when it is not a personal experience being discussed. Please
provide hyperlinks with full URLs or full citations of published works not available via the Internet. Additionally, all forums members must post information which are
true and correct to their knowledge.

When you are diagnosed these laws are explained to you by your Dr, as a requirement by the department of health.

Do they really explain the laws? What a good - and obvious - idea. Not one medical professional has ever discussed the law with me and I have a sneaky suspicion that most have the same experience.

Another thing that seems to often be left out of the initial post-diagnosis discussions is exactly how the virus is and is not spread. Not everyone has the resources to research this stuff - and not everyone has the inclination either.

Maybe if these two subjects were required to be dealt with in the doctor's office after diagnosis, we might see a modest decline in onward transmission. Maybe - it couldn't hurt to try.

Ann(who doesn't agree with most legislation aimed at hiv, but thinks people need to be informed, formally, that it exists.)

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You mentioned Hep C in your previous post - does Australian legislation cover that, or other potentially incurable infections such as herpes, too? If not, you have to wonder why not?

Keyite,

In NSW the public health act requires one to disclose not only HIV but any other sexually transmitted infection. It states that you must not have sexual intercourse with anyone unless you have disclosed to that person the fact you have that condition and the other person voluntarily agrees to accept the risk of transmission. This law defines sexual intercourse as meaning the introduction into the vagina, anus or mouth of a person of any part of the penis of another person, or cunnilingus. In other words, this law requires disclosure about HIV or STIs for oral, anal and vaginal sex. Interestingly, the law does not say you have to disclose you have HIV or another STI if you use needles to inject drugs.

Ann,

Yes, it is a requirement that they do explain the laws and modes of transmission to you when you are first diagnosed. And, I think they are not allowed to let you leave the surgery until they are satisfied that you are not going to top yourself as soon as you walk out the door. At least my doc did - he made sure I had somewhere to go, someone to talk to, and he gave me a list of contacts for free counselling, support and advice.

Is it possible to tell if this law has made a discernible dent in infection rates?

It makes no difference. HIV infection rates rise and drop irrespective of the provisions of the Act. We've seen HIV rising dramatically in NSW since 2000. But last year the infection rate in NSW dropped by about 5%.

(1) Persons who know that they are carriers of AIDS (see Definitions (2)) shall neither sell nor donate their own blood, plasma, or blood product if they know or should know that the blood, plasma, or blood product is being used for the purpose of transfusion to another individual. Anyone violating this section is guilty of selling or donating contaminated blood, a felony in the fourth degree. § 2927.13.

(2) No person, with knowledge that they have tested positive for HIV (see Definitions (2)) or AIDS shall, in the context of loitering, beckon to, stop, or attempt to stop another; engage or attempt to engage another in conversation; stop or attempt to stop the operator of a vehicle or approach a stationary vehicle; if the offender is the operator of a vehicle or passenger in a vehicle, stop, attempt to stop, beckon to, attempt to beckon to or entice another to approach or enter the vehicle of which the offender is the operator or the passenger; or interfere with the free passage of another. § 2907.241.

(3) No person, with knowledge that they have tested positive for HIV or AIDS shall solicit another to engage in sexual activity with them for hire. Any person found guilty of this provision is guilty of engaging in solicitation after a positive HIV test. If committed before July 1, 1996, then the crime is a felony in the second degree, if committed after that date then it is a felony of the third degree. If a person is convicted or pleads guilty of any provision of this section, an attempt to commit a violation of any provision of this section, or a violation or attempt to commit a violation to a municipal ordinance substantially equivalent to the provisions of this section, and if this person was in, was on, or used a motor vehicle, the court, in addition to or independent of all other penalties imposed for the violation shall impose upon the offender a class six suspension of the person’s driver’s license. § 2907.24.

(4) No person confined in a detention facility with knowledge that they are HIV positive or have AIDS shall cause or attempt to cause another person to come into contact with blood, semen, urine, feces, or another bodily substance by throwing the bodily substance at the other person, by expelling the bodily substance upon the other person, or in any other manner. Whoever violated this section is guilty of harassment which is a felony in the third degree. This section does not apply to a person who is hospitalized, institutionalized, or confined in a facility operated by the department of mental health or the department of mental retardation and developmental disabilities. § 2921.38.

(5) No person with knowledge that they have tested HIV positive shall engage in sexual activity for hire. Whoever violates this section is guilty of engaging in prostitution after a positive HIV test. This is a felony of the second degree if committed before July 1, 1996 and is a felony of the third degree if committed after that date. § 2907.25.

(6) No person, with knowledge that the person has tested positive as a carrier of a virus that causes AIDS, shall knowingly do any of the following:engage in sexual conduct with another person without disclosing that knowledge to the other person prior to engaging in the sexual conduct; engage in sexual conduct with a person whom the offender knows or has reasonable cause to believe lacks the mental capacity to appreciate the significance of the knowledge that the offender has tested positive as a carrier of a virus that causes AIDS; engage in sexual conduct with a person under eighteen years of age who is not the spouse of the offender. If the victim of the offense is a peace officer, and if the victim suffered serious physical harm as a result of the commission of the offense, felonious assault is a felony of the first degree, and the court, shall impose as a mandatory prison term one of the applicable prison terms. § 2903.11.

The mental capacity part of the law is where it gets you even if you disclose.

From a hetrosexual male perspective... Over the years I've tried both approaches and believed at different times that both were right, to disclose or not to disclose most recently, the last couple of years , I've been not disclosing. This had boosted my confidence dramatically. I became a sexual being again. The way I look at it is, if you use condoms, check you dick a lot for cuts or abrasions, then there really is no problem i say No problem , because I think the risk, of oral sex , or of a condom breaking ( and they rarely break, and if they do you know and you can stop strait away) that risk is so low that its inconsequential To live in this world is to except risk. To have sex is to accept risk. If you go out there is a much much higher chance that you will be hit by a car than infected with hiv by me. We accept this as part and parcel of living in the modern world. Drives don't need to disclose to the world everytime they go for a drive. They take proper care, you take proper care in crossing the road. That's the best we can do. I really cant see how non disclosure by hiv poz people who practise safer sex is spreading the virus. Actually its nonsense hiv is spread by people who don't know they have the virus. As for criminalisation. I think its pretty disgusting, right wing fear mongering. but if we were to go down that route then it should be a criminal offence for every person that has sex, that isn't 100per cent sure that they are hiv negative, to disclose that fact.

Do they really explain the laws? What a good - and obvious - idea. Not one medical professional has ever discussed the law with me and I have a sneaky suspicion that most have the same experience.

They discussed it with me... they told me that in the Netherlands I DO NOT have to disclose, and so if I want it I can get sex [in pretty much the same words], protected of course. That was because I complained that I will never have sex again... so actually, the took the trouble to explain how the law is on our side.

At the same time I know they are very concerned here about serosorting, they are really against it here and have organized a class for gay patients to explain how dangerous it can be.

You got to give the Dutch something, they are very pragmatic people, and they are not moralistic (mostly). I have never seen a Dutch treat me strangely because of HIV (Ok once actually I did a PAP smear and the technician dressed like she was going into a nuclear reactor and seemed awfully nervous; but otherwise incredibelly laid back, and I am talking about people who deal with my blood, and other potentially infectious things like a dental hygenist, nurses removing a cyst, etc). My BF went to the doctor the other day to ask for a HIV test because we are having sex for more than a year. I was worried about the doctor's reaction, but he told me not to worry he is sure that he will be completely calm, because he is Dutch, and yes the doctor didn't even raise an eyebrow, he told him that he has nothing to worry about but he understands the emotional need to test once in a while.

I have a question to the nondisclosers: aren't you afraid someone will find out and confront you?

Logged

"If you keep one foot in yesterday, and one in tomorrow, you piss all over today". Betty Tacy

(1) Persons who know that they are carriers of AIDS (see Definitions (2)) shall neither sell nor donate their own blood, plasma, or blood product if they know or should know that the blood, plasma, or blood product is being used for the purpose of transfusion to another individual. Anyone violating this section is guilty of selling or donating contaminated blood, a felony in the fourth degree. § 2927.13.

(2) No person, with knowledge that they have tested positive for HIV (see Definitions (2)) or AIDS shall, in the context of loitering, beckon to, stop, or attempt to stop another; engage or attempt to engage another in conversation; stop or attempt to stop the operator of a vehicle or approach a stationary vehicle; if the offender is the operator of a vehicle or passenger in a vehicle, stop, attempt to stop, beckon to, attempt to beckon to or entice another to approach or enter the vehicle of which the offender is the operator or the passenger; or interfere with the free passage of another. § 2907.241.

(3) No person, with knowledge that they have tested positive for HIV or AIDS shall solicit another to engage in sexual activity with them for hire. Any person found guilty of this provision is guilty of engaging in solicitation after a positive HIV test. If committed before July 1, 1996, then the crime is a felony in the second degree, if committed after that date then it is a felony of the third degree. If a person is convicted or pleads guilty of any provision of this section, an attempt to commit a violation of any provision of this section, or a violation or attempt to commit a violation to a municipal ordinance substantially equivalent to the provisions of this section, and if this person was in, was on, or used a motor vehicle, the court, in addition to or independent of all other penalties imposed for the violation shall impose upon the offender a class six suspension of the person’s driver’s license. § 2907.24.

(4) No person confined in a detention facility with knowledge that they are HIV positive or have AIDS shall cause or attempt to cause another person to come into contact with blood, semen, urine, feces, or another bodily substance by throwing the bodily substance at the other person, by expelling the bodily substance upon the other person, or in any other manner. Whoever violated this section is guilty of harassment which is a felony in the third degree. This section does not apply to a person who is hospitalized, institutionalized, or confined in a facility operated by the department of mental health or the department of mental retardation and developmental disabilities. § 2921.38.

(5) No person with knowledge that they have tested HIV positive shall engage in sexual activity for hire. Whoever violates this section is guilty of engaging in prostitution after a positive HIV test. This is a felony of the second degree if committed before July 1, 1996 and is a felony of the third degree if committed after that date. § 2907.25.

(6) No person, with knowledge that the person has tested positive as a carrier of a virus that causes AIDS, shall knowingly do any of the following:engage in sexual conduct with another person without disclosing that knowledge to the other person prior to engaging in the sexual conduct; engage in sexual conduct with a person whom the offender knows or has reasonable cause to believe lacks the mental capacity to appreciate the significance of the knowledge that the offender has tested positive as a carrier of a virus that causes AIDS; engage in sexual conduct with a person under eighteen years of age who is not the spouse of the offender. If the victim of the offense is a peace officer, and if the victim suffered serious physical harm as a result of the commission of the offense, felonious assault is a felony of the first degree, and the court, shall impose as a mandatory prison term one of the applicable prison terms. § 2903.11.

The mental capacity part of the law is where it gets you even if you disclose.

The scariest part of this Rod is that it actually ENCOURAGES prostitutes to NOT get tested. If they dont know they cant be prosecuted. NICE JOB OHIO! You are spreading this disease using your dumb ass laws! Seriously, sometimes people don't think this shit through.

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I have a question to the nondisclosers: aren't you afraid someone will find out and confront you?

I have thought of this. I consider myself HIGHLY educated in the modes of transmission. So I dont consider oral sex a risk at all. I give 98% of the time and when I'm getting blown its never to completion (and all the science indicates you dont get it from oral sex at all anyway!). You dont give a person HIV by going down on them (male OR female). As for other sex, with my wife its always protected and she knows. With other men it is always protected and im ALWAYS the bottom. So there is ZERO risk for transmission. If a condom breaks (which they DONT if used correctly, and I've read all of Ann's links) and you stop immediately and replace with a new one the risk of transmission is infinitely small, I MAY tell someone if this happens but probably not because I know what it takes to become infected and this just wont do it in the real world.

Now if someone found out and confronted me, I'd tell them the facts. I never put you at risk. If I would have I would have told you, and I NEVER would have put you at risk. And then educated yet ONE MORE person as to how this disease actually works.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2007, 12:04:17 PM by ACinKC »

Logged

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

In the State of Ohio it is if you are going to be incarcerated. They don't only check you for HIV, but STDs and TB goes along with it. They don't do that to ones that are there for overnight visits for DUI, etc.. Put it this way, if they tell you are going to have to take an HIV test and you refuse the courts will presume the worse and the only way to get a lessor sentence is by testing and proving you are HIV negative. It's a catch 22.

(2) No person, with knowledge that they have tested positive for HIV (see Definitions (2)) or AIDS shall, in the context of loitering, beckon to, stop, or attempt to stop another; engage or attempt to engage another in conversation; stop or attempt to stop the operator of a vehicle or approach a stationary vehicle; if the offender is the operator of a vehicle or passenger in a vehicle, stop, attempt to stop, beckon to, attempt to beckon to or entice another to approach or enter the vehicle of which the offender is the operator or the passenger; or interfere with the free passage of another. § 2907.241.

This part sounds particularly stupid. I wonder what prompted this particular section?

Have been offline, and my responses are usually delayed owing to the time difference.

I personally don't like the laws here, they generate a climate of fear and marginalisation. Social theorists argue that legislation is more effective if it focuses on safety - using similar themes to the universal protection ideas that work very well.

Interestingly these laws were enacted a pos sexworker allegedly engaged in unsafe practices with clients without disclosing her status. Some of her clients included high ranking government and legal officials - so the response was fast and firm. The case was complex because she had untreated bipolar illness, so lots of energy, sexually disinhibited and little thought about consequences for herself and others. (The laws also allow for someone to be detained involuntarily if they are deemed to be a public health risk related to their status and behaviour - for all STI's).

In terms of the effect the laws have on new infections, hard to say.

Rates of new infections in NSW are on the decline, and are lower than similar centres internationally. The rates are even more favourable when compared to other Australian states. There are other strategies in place, extensive education and social marketing campaigns, free condoms, lube and injecting equipment easily available. Free medical care for screening, testing and other health needs (psychological, nutritional advice etc). Free 24 hour access to PEP, heavily subsidised medication, (about $60-90AUS per month or $9-15 bucks per month if you are on a pension.)

Also: licensing requirements for saunas, funded advertising in bars, saunas, gay press and medical centres. It is also illegal to discriminate against someone on the basis of sexuality, allowing us a free platform to discuss these issues. Australians are fairly tolerant, plus our annual Mardi Gras festival, parade and parties general tens of millions annually in tourism and govt revenue, so we get a fair amount of tokenistic tolerance. Even with our current conservative government, Australians are fairly relaxed around sex and sexuality, religion and extremists are kept in their places. The disclosure laws, as crap as they are, generate discussion on moral as well as legal issues, so people are usually well informed.

Here's a link to part of a recent campaign from ACON, the Aids Council of NSW.

The laws are under constant scrutiny and review, with alot of pressure to change them. Unfortunately there are 3 big trials here at the moment on this issue. It is alleged that 3 men in 3 different states have "deliberately" infected hundreds of people. The cases are separate, but are going on at the same time - so you can imagine the media storm. It will be a long time before the dust settles enough for any progress to be made.

Logged

Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

Whilst Australia doesn't experience the degree of religiosity found in the US, I would have to say that religious weirdos and fundamentalist whackjobs have been and still are gaining political traction.

Ignorance is everywhere, I don't think the extremists have the same power or influence here though.

t

Logged

Roughly roundabout somewhere in the eighteenth or nineteenth century, Sodomite begat Homosexual out of moral, medical and legal models, bequeathing him Identity, who inbred with Nuclear Family and Industrialism to spawn Homophobia.

OMFG! All I can do when I read those f-ed up laws is laugh! If they weren't so pathetic. Reminds me of the laws Cobb County (Atlanta suburb) put on the books that served no purpose but to be hateful towards gay people. As a result, all '96 Olympic Venues originally scheduled to take place in Cobb County were moved to different counties/cities.

People only "know" what they want to know. Just because someone tests positive for hiv antibodies doesn't mean they can or will infect you! My viral load is undetectable, but that wouldn't matter if I was hooking and got arrested! They'd treat me like I was trying to spread hiv deliberately even though it would be highly unlikely! Someone needs to bring the law enforcement up to date.

If you are doing anything BUT giving a BJ, I cant see how you can morally NOT disclose. It's just not fair on the other person!! It's their life you are taking into your hands, imagine IF you do infect them somehow... could you live with yourself!!

If you are doing anything BUT giving a BJ, I cant see how you can morally NOT disclose. It's just not fair on the other person!! It's their life you are taking into your hands, imagine IF you do infect them somehow... could you live with yourself!!

Here I am, almost a year after my diagnosis. I disclosed everytime except once, there was no anal involved, just oral. I was drunk, and when he started sucking me I let him do it. If he's poz because of this blow job, then be it, but good luck proving it.

Disclosure is two-fold, I think. There is the "pre-meeting" disclosure, and the "in the act" disclosure. The pre-meeting disclosure can be disappointing when doing it online. People are scared as shit when you say you're HIV positive. Lack of education, stigma, etc.. Bar disclosure, however, turned out to be much better. I've have very few "sorry i'm not sure i can handle it" answers at bars. Most answers were "we'll be safe and have a good time", or "i'm poz too, let's fuck", which was my prefered answer. I've had a couple of "in the act" disclosures, and those never were a problem.

I personally cannot not disclose, unless i'm under the influence, which hasn't been happening for some time now. Disclosure has been better than not saying anything, to my experience.

AlanBama, I was a little slow picking up your resurrection reference. I was all ready to tell you all about ash Wednesday and lent, etc., since many of my acquaintances don't have a clue about the seasons of my faith.

I had sex with someone I had just met couple of weeks ago. I kept trying to tell him I was positive but he didn't want to listen. He just wanted it, no matter what. Aparently he bottomed a lot and he wasn't safe with any of them. I figured he was probaly already positive.

I haven't been with him again but not for lack of trying. I called him a couple of times and told him I wanted to see him again and I wanted to talk (no sex). That must have freaked him out because he won't return my calls!

I guess I overlooked this thread but am glad it got bumped for whatever reason. I have a hard time disclosing due to being betrayed by my family and losing some friends because of the stigma and their ignorance. The person who infected me never even told me, I had to find out through a 3rd party. Before I found out, I was being serviced by 2 fellas. One of them told me that my partner at the time was infected but was very understanding and married. Condoms were used. The other person, I did tell, I didn't lose him as a friend but the sex was over. I can even sympathize with the one who infected me as far as not disclosing but I wish he would've been responsible and at least wore a condom knowing he was infected. But at the same time, I should've been more responsible too, it takes 2 to tango.

I recently (2 months ago) had sex with someone without disclosing. I tried talking to this person, trying to find out how educated he was by bring up the topic of hiv/aids. I know dropping hints is not the same as disclosing but you would think, it would've lead to him asking if I was poz. It didn't and he was ready to dive in w/o a condom. I guess because I didn't look sickly that was good enough for him. Even though I did not disclose, I was the responsible one, the educated one and the one with the condoms. In my eyes, I made the right decision.I played safely and knowing that I am undetectable, the risk was lower. I could have blown caution to the wind, raw dogged it and figured he would never know where it came from if he did become poz. But then the guilt would've killed me before the hiv.

We can beat around this moral Mulberry Bush all we like. It doesn't really matter because in the end each individual will decide whether to disclose or not. Since we have new members joining our exclusive little club every minute, it appears the disclosure question has already been answered.

eggh, i still love mtd's first post. when i first signed on to these damn boards i was all morally correct. now i stand morally corrected, i always use condoms and seldom disclose. if they can't read my profile than too bad. if we meet at a sex joint then shame on them for trying to hit it without using protection. if we meet under a romantic guise then shit, it must be my luck night, cause all these fools just want to hit it and quit it. but, i always wear a glove and make sure they do when they are with me.

disclosing is great, and more power to everyone who does. even better, more power to the people who ask. in the last 10 years of my neg life i can only recall one person asking my std status, i always had to bring that shit up. and as matty and the others have crassly reminded me, people lie. playing safe in both situations (disclosure and nondisclosure) trumps all. i have not disclosed to all my sex partners, but i have engaged in safer sex with everyone (outside of the blowjobs). guys still try to bareback with me but that shit just dont happen. i wasn't a huge fan of it before and i am not one now.

I have a question. Just curious..If you dont disclose and you are having protected vaginal/anal sex and the condom breaks. What do you say or do?

Teresa

I always disclose. I meet people online and usually it's not that hard to do, I do it before meeting the person. Yes, it brings some non-negligible percentage of rejection, but you just have to move on if that happens. I feel that the other person should be informed, and it's required by law, which I think is not unreasonable until such time there is a cure for it.

I have unfortunately been in the situation of a condom breaking recently, in early october. I was doing insertive anal, and the other person was neg and a virgin, and very tight down there. Unfortunately, the condom broke when I was cumming. The other person freaked obviously. I brought my partner of that night to the ER to get started on PEP. That person is still neg as of early jan, and probably will stay that way.

I wish it wasn't the case, but I have seen condoms break unfortunately once in a while, I guess about every couple of years in my personal experience, probably about 1% of the time.

ACK!!! if we don't accept ourselves, then how will we be accepted by others...

would you want to know in hind sight? I think the don't ask, don't tell sucks... fess up.. man/woman up... if you need a lay sooo bad then put your business in your own hands... or give your partner the CHOICE.... its not that tough

"ACK!!! if we don't accept ourselves, then how will we be accepted by others..."

Not trying to start any shit but I have to disagree with that statement. Are you basically saying that if a person doesn't disclose they don't accept themselves? I accept being infected and I have been dealing with it just fine except when it comes to disclosure. Not for the lack of trying but from the beginning when I wanted to disclose that option was taken from me by family.(Yeah, I know I sound like a broken record) I can count on one hand how many people actually accepted me being poz without running for the hills when I did decide to disclose to them. I mean how much rejection is a person suppose to take before it affects them in some type of way?

Yeah, I know it is the law in many states but that doesn't make it right. I think that law should be changed, not saying that people should go out and randomly infect others but that the person should at least be responsible knowing they are infected and have a condom. But then I guess that raises the question of the other party being just as responsible too. Oh, nevermind.....This feels like deja vu.

My two cents is that disclosure is very personal decision and I don't think the absoluteness should be to have to do it. To consent to having unprotected sex with someone, in my opinion, is to risk getting whatever the other person might have. Responsibility is a two-way street.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow