Koran-burning pastor Terry Jones was mobbed by protesters as he made his way to the Arab International Festival. Scuffles broke out and six people were arrested as Jones walk down the street toward the festival with some of his supporters in Dearborn, Michigan. The controversial Florida Pastor Jones had intended to hold an anti-Islam rally and counter-protest against the festival. The event is the largest outdoor gathering of Arab-Americans in the U.S. Jones wore sunglasses, a bullet-proof vest and a t-shirt that read: 'Everything I ever needed to know about Islam I learned on 9-11.' He had led a rally...

There is no excuse for pushing and shoving the pastor, but he is looking for trouble, not truly serving God, with his little ventures into Dearborn.

Apache

06-20-2011, 10:47 AM

There is no excuse for pushing and shoving the pastor, but he is looking for trouble, not truly serving God, with his little ventures into Dearborn.

He's lucky that's all that happened to him... so far.

And, you're right. Methinks he liked his taste of the limelight...:rolleyes:

Novaheart

06-20-2011, 10:53 AM

There is no excuse for pushing and shoving the pastor, but he is looking for trouble, not truly serving God, with his little ventures into Dearborn.

If "intelligent, decent people" don't do anything then it's left to the ones who will.

As I keep telling my Democratic friends and family: If you will not take a stand against illegal immigration, mass immigration, and hostile cultural invasion then you are handing these issues over to the people who define themselves by them. If you insist on doing nothing, then when nationalists do something, you have no moral grounds to object.

Odysseus

06-20-2011, 10:55 AM

At first, I thought that Jones was just grandstanding for publicity, but he was willing to put himself in the line of fire and the more that I hear about him, the less I believe the media caricature.

I particularly loved this photo. What kind of equality do you think you'll have under Sharia, young lady? Will you be treated as an equal of a man in court? In marriage? In employment? Will you even be allowed out of your home wearing a duffel bag without a male relative along to protect your "honor"?

noonwitch

06-20-2011, 11:25 AM

At first, I thought that Jones was just grandstanding for publicity, but he was willing to put himself in the line of fire and the more that I hear about him, the less I believe the media caricature.

I particularly loved this photo. What kind of equality do you think you'll have under Sharia, young lady? Will you be treated as an equal of a man in court? In marriage? In employment? Will you even be allowed out of your home wearing a duffel bag without a male relative along to protect your "honor"?

I wish people would just ignore the guy, but he is making it difficult to do so. He is looking for trouble. The girl is expressing support for her neighbors, not advocating for the imposition of sharia law.

In Dearborn, the young lady has a far bigger chance of being arrested for DWB than she has of offending muslims who are adhering to Sharia law. The white people in Dearborn have no choice but to respect the arab population in their city, because that population has money, property and some political clout. They still don't want black people in their city. There's a long history of racism-just google the name Orville Hubbard and you'll see what I mean.

Sharia law does not rule in Dearborn, even if about a third of the population are muslims.

Novaheart

06-20-2011, 11:41 AM

I wish people would just ignore the guy, but he is making it difficult to do so. He is looking for trouble. The girl is expressing support for her neighbors, not advocating for the imposition of sharia law.

In Dearborn, the young lady has a far bigger chance of being arrested for DWB than she has of offending muslims who are adhering to Sharia law. The white people in Dearborn have no choice but to respect the arab population in their city, because that population has money, property and some political clout. They still don't want black people in their city. There's a long history of racism-just google the name Orville Hubbard and you'll see what I mean.

Sharia law does not rule in Dearborn, even if about a third of the population are muslims.

Don't kid yourself that Arabs are somehow less racist than anyone else. Arabs are notoriously racist, and don't particularly care for black people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHszsGbBJQo&feature=related

Speedy

06-20-2011, 12:05 PM

There's a long history of racism-just google the name Orville Hubbard and you'll see what I mean.

Sharia law does not rule in Dearborn, even if about a third of the population are muslims.

Excuse me, but a BLACK guy is Presdident. And because of no other qualification than because he is Black. What a stupid thing to say.

The Night Owl

06-20-2011, 12:36 PM

At first, I thought that Jones was just grandstanding for publicity, but he was willing to put himself in the line of fire and the more that I hear about him, the less I believe the media caricature.

Did you know that Terry Jones considers Judaism to be of the devil?

Odysseus

06-20-2011, 12:55 PM

I wish people would just ignore the guy, but he is making it difficult to do so. He is looking for trouble. The girl is expressing support for her neighbors, not advocating for the imposition of sharia law.

In Dearborn, the young lady has a far bigger chance of being arrested for DWB than she has of offending muslims who are adhering to Sharia law. The white people in Dearborn have no choice but to respect the arab population in their city, because that population has money, property and some political clout. They still don't want black people in their city. There's a long history of racism-just google the name Orville Hubbard and you'll see what I mean.

Sharia law does not rule in Dearborn, even if about a third of the population are muslims.
But the people who she is supporting include a great many who do want Sharia imposed. That Sharia doesn't rule in Dearborn today doesn't mean that it won't tomorrow, or that there aren't those who are working towards it right now.

Did you know that Terry Jones considers Judaism to be of the devil?

No, and until I hear it from a reliable source, I still don't.

The Night Owl

06-20-2011, 01:00 PM

No, and until I hear it from a reliable source, I still don't.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015853-10391695.html

Articulate_Ape

06-20-2011, 01:11 PM

Terry Jones is daft. Everyone who isn't daft knows this. However, his actions in this case, while perhaps daft, yet again flew in the face of the canard that Islam is a peaceful religion.

noonwitch

06-20-2011, 01:12 PM

Excuse me, but a BLACK guy is Presdident. And because of no other qualification than because he is Black. What a stupid thing to say.

Even if I was willing to concede your mistaken claim that Obama was elected president for the sole reason that he is black, which I'm not, what does that have to do with the history of racism in Dearborn or of the history of the arab american population of Dearborn? Do you know anything about either of those situations?

Do you really think that because the majority of americans voted for a black man for president in 2008, racism is suddenly eradicated from our society?

Speedy

06-20-2011, 01:23 PM

Do you really think that because the majority of americans voted for a black man for president in 2008, racism is suddenly eradicated from our society?

Jesus Christ! A completely unqualified BLACK man is President. He was elected by WHITE people because 100% of the Black vote won't elect anyone President unless 4 or 5 times as many Whites than Black vote for him. What more do you fucking want? Seriously, what would it take for you guys to shut the fuck up about racism? Seriously, what would it take and do not come up with any lollipop, kitten and unicorn fart shit.

Novaheart

06-21-2011, 12:07 AM

Did you know that Terry Jones considers Judaism to be of the devil?

I have told you over and over: If you won't oppose this invasion and the one at the southern border, then it will be left to the people who will. And they will rise, and average people who disagree with them on almost everything else, will fall in behind them when the problem reaches a more critical mass.

Odysseus

06-21-2011, 12:31 AM

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015853-10391695.html

I said a reliable source. CBS News presented forged National Guard documents in order to try to shift the 2004 election away from Bush. I give them minimal credence, and until you admit that Van Jones is a communist and a racist, I give you none at all.

I have told you over and over: If you won't oppose this invasion and the one at the southern border, then it will be left to the people who will. And they will rise, and average people who disagree with them on almost everything else, will fall in behind them when the problem reaches a more critical mass.

I said a reliable source. CBS News presented forged National Guard documents in order to try to shift the 2004 election away from Bush. I give them minimal credence, and until you admit that Van Jones is a communist and a racist, I give you none at all.

CBS News is reliable enough for you to have posted at least 3 articles from it.

I bet I would find more examples of you relying on CBS News if "CBS" were a searchable string here.

Yes, but I consider you an unreliable source. Willful dishonesty does that.

Ultimately, I don't particularly care about Jones' take on Judaism, as it's less toxic than yours. As Nova pointed out, it wasn't Jews that mobbed him, and he hasn't been burning Old Testaments, Torahs or copies of the Talmud. He isn't going after Judaism as a threat to America, but he does recognize that Islamic jihadis are a threat.

Now, why don't you go back to this thread (http://www.conservativeunderground.com/forum505/showthread.php?t=41412) and pretend that Nicholas Elliot didn't plan and attempt a mass murder, that Mumia Abu-Jamal isn't a cop-killer and racist, and that Van Jones isn't a racist and communist. You won't make any sense or say anything honest there, either, but at least the comic relief will make up for it. Here, you're just as obtuse and dishonest, by you're just not that funny.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 12:18 PM

So what?

Since he is starting to question the media's portrayal of Terry Jones, I thought Odysseus might like to know about Jones' position on Judaism.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 12:21 PM

Ultimately, I don't particularly care about Jones' take on Judaism, as it's less toxic than yours. As Nova pointed out, it wasn't Jews that mobbed him, and he hasn't been burning Old Testaments, Torahs or copies of the Talmud. He isn't going after Judaism as a threat to America, but he does recognize that Islamic jihadis are a threat.

In what way is my position on Judaism more toxic than that of Terry Jones? I argue that Judaism is simply wrong. Jones argues that Judaism is not just wrong but evil.

CueSi

06-21-2011, 12:22 PM

Since he is starting to question the media's portrayal of Terry Jones, I thought Odysseus might like to know about Jones' position on Judaism.

I'm kinda with Nova on this one. Jews didn't beat this guy. Muslims did. His positions may be distasteful, but he has only had his free speech threatened by one group, and it wasn't the guys with the keppahs on their heads.

~QC

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 12:24 PM

I'm kinda with Nova on this one. Jews didn't beat this guy. Muslims did. His positions may be distasteful, but he has only had his free speech threatened by one group, and it wasn't the guys with the keppahs on their heads.

~QC

I'm not comparing the reaction of Jews and Muslims here. I'm simply making the point that Terry Jones is the hateful freak he seems to be.

CueSi

06-21-2011, 12:29 PM

I'm not comparing the reaction of Jews and Muslims here. I'm simply making the point that Terry Jones is the hateful freak he seems to be.

I am not arguing that. But. . .being that only ONE group beat the shit out of him, while everyone else was content to ignore him, and said group has a precedent of having sand in it's vagina about everything, I submit it begs comparison. And what he said about Jews brings it into stark relief.

~QC

fettpett

06-21-2011, 12:43 PM

I'm not comparing the reaction of Jews and Muslims here. I'm simply making the point that Terry Jones is the hateful freak he seems to be.

see, here's the difference, MUSLIMS beat the shit out of him and would kill him given the chance. JEWS would not and simply ignore his dumbass.

Novaheart

06-21-2011, 12:57 PM

Since he is starting to question the media's portrayal of Terry Jones, I thought Odysseus might like to know about Jones' position on Judaism.

It's safe to guess he's not big on Gay people either. We have fundy street evangelists at Pride every year, and they stand there telling us we're going to Hell.

• The difference is that neither they nor we are an invasive culture- they are Americans and we are Americans.

• The difference is that fundies say that we will submit to what they believe to be God's will and condemnation WHEN we die. The Muslims say that we will submit to what they believe to be God's will OR die.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 01:00 PM

see, here's the difference, MUSLIMS beat the shit out of him and would kill him given the chance. JEWS would not and simply ignore his dumbass.

You're kicking at an open door. I haven't suggested that Jews and Muslims react the same way to Terry Jones. I brought up Jones' position on Judaism to counter the suggestion that Jones is less eccentric than he seems.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 01:01 PM

It's safe to guess he's not big on Gay people either. We have fundy street evangelists at Pride every year, and they stand there telling us we're going to Hell.

• The difference is that neither they nor we are an invasive culture- they are Americans and we are Americans.

• The difference is that fundies say that we will submit to what they believe to be God's will and condemnation WHEN we die. The Muslims say that we will submit to what they believe to be God's will OR die.

See post #27.

Novaheart

06-21-2011, 01:05 PM

You're kicking at an open door. I haven't suggested that Jews and Muslims react the same way to Terry Jones. I brought up Jones' position on Judaism to counter the suggestion that Jones is less eccentric than he seems.

As long as he breaks no legitimate laws, nothing that Jones does is at all relevant to the issue. The entire issue is the actions of the exotic Muslims in this country and the fact that this is happening when they are only a couple of hundred thousand strong. We have also seen what happens when they think they have reached the magic number as they have in London, Malmo, Amsterdam, Rome, Paris, and Copenhagen.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 01:35 PM

As long as he breaks no legitimate laws, nothing that Jones does is at all relevant to the issue. The entire issue is the actions of the exotic Muslims in this country and the fact that this is happening when they are only a couple of hundred thousand strong. We have also seen what happens when they think they have reached the magic number as they have in London, Malmo, Amsterdam, Rome, Paris, and Copenhagen.

Agreed. My commentary on Jones was merely a response to a point Odysseus made about him. I wasn't trying to comment on the issue at large.

Odysseus

06-21-2011, 03:13 PM

In what way is my position on Judaism more toxic than that of Terry Jones? I argue that Judaism is simply wrong. Jones argues that Judaism is not just wrong but evil.
No, you argue that there is no difference between them. Jones doesn't protest at synagogues, or burn Torahs. He may not care for Judaism, but he recognizes that Islam is a threat to America in a way that Judaism is not. You don't see any difference and continually make moral equivalencies between Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

see, here's the difference, MUSLIMS beat the shit out of him and would kill him given the chance. JEWS would not and simply ignore his dumbass.

And, he pretty much ignores ours, which is all that I ask from people of other faiths or lack of same.

You're kicking at an open door. I haven't suggested that Jews and Muslims react the same way to Terry Jones. I brought up Jones' position on Judaism to counter the suggestion that Jones is less eccentric than he seems.

Nobody is denying that he's eccentric. I'm simply saying that the media has exaggerated his eccentricities because they want him to be the villain of the piece, and that given the media's (and your) track record with the truth, that I was willing to give him the benefit of any doubt before I'd believe the media (or you). When you are willing to give Jones or Glenn Beck the same insane lattitudes that you give to Van Jones or Mumia Abu-Jamal, I'll start taking you seriously. Until then, selective outrage is just a function of your agenda, and I have no interest in advancing that.

noonwitch

06-21-2011, 03:25 PM

Jesus Christ! A completely unqualified BLACK man is President. He was elected by WHITE people because 100% of the Black vote won't elect anyone President unless 4 or 5 times as many Whites than Black vote for him. What more do you fucking want? Seriously, what would it take for you guys to shut the fuck up about racism? Seriously, what would it take and do not come up with any lollipop, kitten and unicorn fart shit.

I'll shut up about racism when you admit that there might possibly be such a thing as racism in a city you've never been to that is located thousands of miles from where you live.

The Night Owl

06-21-2011, 05:10 PM

Nobody is denying that he's eccentric. I'm simply saying that the media has exaggerated his eccentricities...

What are some of these exaggerations about Terry Jones?

...because they want him to be the villain of the piece, and that given the media's (and your) track record with the truth, that I was willing to give him the benefit of any doubt before I'd believe the media (or you).

There can be more than one villain. I wouldn't put Jones in the same camp as those who would use violence against him but that doesn't mean he's the good guy either.

Odysseus

06-21-2011, 05:38 PM

What are some of these exaggerations about Terry Jones?
Oh, the usual BS about him being a bigoted Islamophobe whose taunts are riling up Muslims who would otherwise never consider rioting, beheading UN workers or otherwise doing anything besides reading the Qur'an and singing Kumbay.

There can be more than one villain. I wouldn't put Jones in the same camp as those who would use violence against him but that doesn't mean he's the good guy either.

No, in this case, he really is the good guy (Just as Glenn Beck was when he outed Van Jones as a bigot and communist), because he has couragously stood up to those who would force Sharia on us. Burning a Qur'an and then going to an Arab festival takes guts.

Speedy

06-21-2011, 07:35 PM

I'll shut up about racism when you admit that there might possibly be such a thing as racism in a city you've never been to that is located thousands of miles from where you live.

Oh yeah there is racism. Black people are some of the biggest and most blatant bigots on the fucking planet. But Blacks are at most 12-15% of the population and we have a Black President. Your squeals of racism seem hilarious funny in light of that. But of course Black people have always been funny, They always made those big bug eyes in the Three Stooges shorts and all. That always made me laugh and laugh. And then they cry about racism when they get a completely incompetent Black President. THAT is funny. That makes me laugh every time I hear it. Racism, pffft!

Novaheart

06-22-2011, 10:13 AM

I'll shut up about racism when you admit that there might possibly be such a thing as racism in a city you've never been to that is located thousands of miles from where you live.

Example specific to the area in question, please.

noonwitch

06-22-2011, 10:26 AM

Example specific to the area in question, please.

Dearborn. Historically and current. A mayor named Orville Hubbard was an open racist, and the Dearborn Police would arrest black people who were on the streets of the city after sundown. Black people were not allowed in Dearborn city parks until the 1990s-the city claimed parks were only for city residents, but were only enforcing that policy against black visitors. These are two clear cut situations of racism in Dearborn.

Personal discussions with people, which aren't verifiable facts:
Most of my black coworkers avoid driving through Dearborn, because they don't like getting pulled over and harrassed by cops. One of my friends won't even go to Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield Village because of her fear of Dearborn cops and their history of racism.

Speedy

06-22-2011, 01:57 PM

Personal discussions with people, which aren't verifiable facts:

Most of my black coworkers avoid driving through Dearborn, because they don't like getting pulled over and harrassed by cops. One of my friends won't even go to Henry Ford Museum/Greenfield Village because of her fear of Dearborn cops and their history of racism.

All of this rampant and obvious racism yet we have a completely incompetent Black man elected President. How is that for a verifiable fact?