I find it interesting, that as much as the ZFT covets their ownership (as they should do, it is their legacy and their right), that they get all upset that other folks should cover/sample FZ's compositions. FZ was absolutely notorious at sampling - or vamping in 60's terms - other folks music. AF is full of lifted riffs and music, which I recall got him a bit of legal trouble with the Estate of Holst. The estate of the fellow that wrote the original Louie Louie didn't have the clout to do anything, but he could have. Tinseltown Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music, but where is the outcry over that? Take those other folks biz, OK, just don't take mine, is ZFT position. Remember the crap over the cover of WOIIFT? A satirical take over the Beatles's original idea. Because of that, we have had JCB staring at us from a dress for decades - kinda creepy, I know.

Lightem up potato heads.

Weirdo question - If I have a band that covers Tinseltown Rebellion, can the ZFT come after me? That would mean they own the rights to all the cover vamps included in the song..or just the bits without the covers? An far less interesting version would be left after the cover vamps were gone.

The law clearly allows for tribute bands to play covers and not have to cough up any cash.

As long as the venue pays the required ASCAP or BMI fees, that is...

johnnycat wrote:

I find it interesting, that as much as the ZFT covets their ownership (as they should do, it is their legacy and their right), that they get all upset that other folks should cover/sample FZ's compositions. FZ was absolutely notorious at sampling - or vamping in 60's terms - other folks music. AF is full of lifted riffs and music, which I recall got him a bit of legal trouble with the Estate of Holst. The estate of the fellow that wrote the original Louie Louie didn't have the clout to do anything, but he could have. Tinseltown Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music, but where is the outcry over that? Take those other folks biz, OK, just don't take mine, is ZFT position. Remember the crap over the cover of WOIIFT? A satirical take over the Beatles's original idea. Because of that, we have had JCB staring at us from a dress for decades - kinda creepy, I know.

Lightem up potato heads.

Weirdo question - If I have a band that covers Tinseltown Rebellion, can the ZFT come after me? That would mean they own the rights to all the cover vamps included in the song..or just the bits without the covers? An far less interesting version would be left after the cover vamps were gone.

Wtf are you talking about?! FZ was a notorious sampler?! Tinsel Town Rebellion is nothing BUT samples/lifts of other folk's music?!

He possibly refers to TTR the song, which does in fact include reams of quotations from music not written by FZ, esp. in its '84 incarnation.

Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?

you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.

_________________Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?

However, how many of the new young hip people got into FZ because André chommesldkeefsky pointed him out to them?

Maybe Gail is really really worried that if she let's anything go "Public Domaine", she might someday hear Baby Snakes MuZAK'ed in a walmart. And no composer of FZ' stature deserves that no matter what!

_________________"Welcome to the Frank Zappa Memorial Country Club & BBQ" at wgt.com 45 members and counting.

Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?

you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.

I find Ed Palermo's rebuttal to Gail's claim (that Palermo was trying to make a living this way) quite spot-on:

Quote:

MAKING A LIVING?!! It was at that point I realized there was nothing I could ever do to win her over. Like I said before, I understand, and even admire, her loyalty to her husband, but it is just plain delusional to think anyone could make a dime playing "Dog Breath Variations" with an 18 piece big band. So, it was at that point that I stopped caring whether the Zappas accept me or not. I still wish them the best, because they're Frank's loved ones, but there is only so much I can do.

I think when he says "make a dime" he clearly refers to earning enough money that it could be sustained as a full time career, rather than just a labour of love.

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

However, how many of the new young hip people got into FZ because André chommesldkeefsky pointed him out to them?

I would think quite a few. Has to do with venues played. Big, expensive sit down theater shows = OLD people. Clubs = young people (and many girls). This has been my first-hand observation, at least. Tho' I haven't been to a ZPZ show since Ray White was in the band. Maybe things have changed.

Frank got deep inside so many groupies that now he is dead Gail just wants him all for herself.

Dude... just kill yourself.

I don't agree with Nukeass' sentiment here, but aren't you projecting yourself into this a little to far? It's Sat. night at 9:06pm (according to post time) and your home, or you've got the time to post here. You're getting on in age, eh? And maybe even lonely, aren't you JP? NOMBiz but WTF? To be fair, it's 8:30pm out here in CA., so it should read (if your in EST) 11:30 on your posts. It just shocked me at first man! The Zappa's forum's post clock is way off.

He's been an attention whore ever since I first got here in 2002. He's basically looking for something extremely hostile to say at each post he sees, particularly with new users. Put him on ignore and never listen to him again. If we all do that, problem solved.

nah, jayp is much needed in zappa world. way too many nerds who think they are smarter than everyone else definitely need a good beat down now and then. direct and to the point, not to say he is perfect, there is collateral damage (bbp) but he makes me laugh, he's consistent...

I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?

I remember that Rage & Fury was not approved by the Varese Trust (in the name of composer Friedrich Cerha), so until now it is not published.

I'd be surprised if the Varese Family Trust found anything wrong with FRANK ZAPPA playing Octandre or any other piece, as the "Publicity" factor would be squarely in their favor. How many of us knew who Varese was until FZ pointed him out?

I remember that Rage & Fury was not approved by the Varese Trust (in the name of composer Friedrich Cerha), so until now it is not published.

Moreover, how come ZFT can release a Road Tapes album that features an avant-rock rendition of Varese's "Octandre" (or rather, the first ten bars of it), yet they are so hell-bent on going after cover bands not named ZPZ?

you're really reaching with this one. FZ was not trying to make a living out of playing 30 seconds of a Varese composition.

I find Ed Palermo's rebuttal to Gail's claim (that Palermo was trying to make a living this way) quite spot-on:

Quote:

MAKING A LIVING?!! It was at that point I realized there was nothing I could ever do to win her over. Like I said before, I understand, and even admire, her loyalty to her husband, but it is just plain delusional to think anyone could make a dime playing "Dog Breath Variations" with an 18 piece big band. So, it was at that point that I stopped caring whether the Zappas accept me or not. I still wish them the best, because they're Frank's loved ones, but there is only so much I can do.

I think when he says "make a dime" he clearly refers to earning enough money that it could be sustained as a full time career, rather than just a labour of love.

ED said it all in that quote, and we all know that without DZ ZPZ would not make a dime, and without the music of Frank his son would go un noticed for the most part. For any one that loves big band music check out Ed Palermo.

_________________A government Bureau is the closest thing to eternal life on earth that you will ever see

He's been an attention whore ever since I first got here in 2002. He's basically looking for something extremely hostile to say at each post he sees, particularly with new users. Put him on ignore and never listen to him again. If we all do that, problem solved.

You love me and you know it. Now shut the fuck up and get back in the kitchen!!

_________________Make your checks payable to QUENTIN ROBERT DeNAMELAND, Greatest Living Philostopher Known to Mankind.

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