Post by Glenn GellerIt looks like FRYS.COM is down. I think that WWW.FRYS.COMcannot currently resolve to an IP address. I tried various DNSservers: Google, Level3, and othersDo any of you have better information or more insight?

http://www.intodns.com/frys.com seems to indicate that their nameserversare currently screwed up. The name can resolve if your resolver has itin its cache:

Post by Glenn GellerIt looks like FRYS.COM is down. I think that WWW.FRYS.COMcannot currently resolve to an IP address. I tried various DNSservers: Google, Level3, and othersDo any of you have better information or more insight?

http://www.intodns.com/frys.com seems to indicate that their nameserversare currently screwed up. The name can resolve if your resolver has it$ host -r www.frys.comwww.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39www.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6HTTP requests to the above IPs work fine. But if you try to get$ host www.frys.comwww.frys.com has address 209.118.198.6www.frys.com has address 209.31.22.39;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached;; connection timed out; no servers could be reachedPresumably someone at Fry's knows about the problem already, and hassome manager standing over the sysadmins reminding them how much moneyper second this outage is costing them. ;-/--keith

Hosting DNS entirely by yourself generally isn't a good idea. Even thetiniest site glitch causes you to begin vanishing from networks and youwon't come back until negative caching (failure caching) expires. Paysomebody $10 to be a backup DNS.

The RFCs don't specify who should run the servers, only that they areseparate. If you're not Fry's, then you might not have a nationwidenetwork at your disposal, in which case you need to have someone helpyou with your DNS. (There are many free DNS providers out there forpersonal domains; they can either run slaves while you operate a master,or they can host all your DNS (at geographically and topologicallyseparate locations, of course!).)

Post by Kevin McMurtriefrys.com. 42950 IN NS ns1.frys.com.frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns2.frys.com.ns1.frys.com. 172550 IN A 209.31.22.11ns2.frys.com. 172550 IN A 66.240.53.78

If you believe GeoIP, then one of these is in Kansas, the other inNew Jersey. So Fry's meets the minimum requirements, whether theyoperate their own DNS or contract it out.

Post by Kevin McMurtrieEven thetiniest site glitch causes you to begin vanishing from networks and youwon't come back until negative caching (failure caching) expires.

That is why the DNS RFCs require that you have at least two serverswhich are both geographically and topologically separate. See e.g.https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2182It does suggest at least three for "organisation level zones, with atleast one which must be well removed from the others." That is, if youhave three, two can be close to each other.

The RFCs don't specify who should run the servers, only that they areseparate. If you're not Fry's, then you might not have a nationwidenetwork at your disposal, in which case you need to have someone helpyou with your DNS. (There are many free DNS providers out there forpersonal domains; they can either run slaves while you operate a master,or they can host all your DNS (at geographically and topologicallyseparate locations, of course!).)

Post by Kevin McMurtriefrys.com. 42950 IN NS ns1.frys.com.frys.com. 42950 IN NS ns2.frys.com.ns1.frys.com. 172550 IN A 209.31.22.11ns2.frys.com. 172550 IN A 66.240.53.78

If you believe GeoIP, then one of these is in Kansas, the other inNew Jersey. So Fry's meets the minimum requirements, whether theyoperate their own DNS or contract it out.--keith

Two locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate ITplan behind them that would make them prone to having identicalmalfunctions at identical times?

Post by Kevin McMurtrieTwo locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate ITplan behind them that would make them prone to having identicalmalfunctions at identical times?

RFCs can't solve every issue. I could just as easily screw up mymaster, then propagate the errors to slaves run by another ''corporateIT plan''. Ultimately one person is responsible (presumably the techcontact for the domain).

Post by Kevin McMurtrieTwo locations means they survive a cut cable. Is there one corporate ITplan behind them that would make them prone to having identicalmalfunctions at identical times?

RFCs can't solve every issue. I could just as easily screw up mymaster, then propagate the errors to slaves run by another ''corporateIT plan''. Ultimately one person is responsible (presumably the techcontact for the domain).

Hi Keith,

You just brought up what's been a thorn in my side for years dealingwith clients who "should" have known better regarding tech (and other)contact(s) for the domain.

The number of times I've seen a specific person's name and presumablya cellphone contact number in whois listings for companies at whichthe person(s) is/are no longer employed is legion and great fun whenit comes time for domain renewal and other administrative functions.

The contact info should be that of a position and not a specific personunless it's a one-person operation.

In other words the admin name, organization, address, phone number andFAX number should be that of "ADMIN" and whomever holds that positionand/or is on duty in the company or enterprise at any given time wouldbe the person who responds to inquiries.

Post by Thad FloryanYou just brought up what's been a thorn in my side for years dealingwith clients who "should" have known better regarding tech (and other)contact(s) for the domain.

Well, in all seriousness, should they actually know better? It's soeasy to register a domain name that there are many people who are doing

Post by Thad FloryanThe number of times I've seen a specific person's name and presumablya cellphone contact number in whois listings for companies at whichthe person(s) is/are no longer employed is legion and great fun whenit comes time for domain renewal and other administrative functions.

This is the system the registrars have set up: it is designed(intentionally or no) to let people who don't know what they are doingscrew up their whois. I do think things have marginally improved inrecent years, where one-stop providers will default to putting their owncontact information into the technical contact. That still doesn't helpwhen someone leaves a small business, and updating the whois is the lastthing on anyone's mind.

Post by Thad FloryanIn other words the admin name, organization, address, phone number andFAX number should be that of "ADMIN" and whomever holds that positionand/or is on duty in the company or enterprise at any given time wouldbe the person who responds to inquiries.

IMO the admin should be the person who knows how to pay theorganization's bills, and/or who knows how to reach the actual tech orprimary contact (i.e., who they would be if the whois records were up todate). If all three are the same person, then that person needs to makesure the whois is up to date if he leaves his roles. I honestly don'tknow how to enforce this. My ISP emails me every so often with my whoisrecords, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens tothat email?

Post by Keith KellerMy ISP emails me every so often with my whoisrecords, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens tothat email?

I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I mightget special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. Iget emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think isa good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned bythem, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?

Interesting that has happened over the years is that I'm no longer solicitedby dozens of registrars. Used to be that I'd get so main of these that Iset up a separate email account just to deal with the domain name email.Now the only stuff I get is from GoDaddy.

Post by Keith KellerMy ISP emails me every so often with my whoisrecords, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens tothat email?

I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I mightget special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. Iget emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think isa good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned bythem, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?

None of this is relevant to the problem of organizations not keepingtheir whois up to date, or to the problem of people who don't know whatthey're doing registering domains.

Post by Keith KellerNone of this is relevant to the problem of organizations not keepingtheir whois up to date, or to the problem of people who don't know whatthey're doing registering domains.

I suppose I have to spell it out for you: I get both email and snail mailfrom GoDaddy. GoDaddy is the largest registrar. Thus, if GoDaddy treatsother domain name owners the same as the treat me, it wouldn't matter if myemail address was not updated in the admin record because I'd get a postcardanyway explaining that the domain name was expiring.

Thus, if whoever was responsible for the frys.com domain name has left thecompany, Fry's would still get a postcard about the renewal, and probablymore postcards if they allowed it to expire.

Companies change personnel all the time, and thus email addresses can changea lot, but they don't change their physical location very often at all.

I don't know what other registrars do, but I'm posting about what thelargest one has done about my domain name registrations.

Post by David KayeI suppose I have to spell it out for you: I get both email and snail mailfrom GoDaddy. GoDaddy is the largest registrar. Thus, if GoDaddy treatsother domain name owners the same as the treat me, it wouldn't matter if myemail address was not updated in the admin record because I'd get a postcardanyway explaining that the domain name was expiring.

What happens when the kid whose dad runs the school web site graduates,and the dad simply tosses the postcards in the trash because he doesn'tknow it's important?

It is truly frightening that some people are allowed to registerdomains.

That's a good question, and one for which I don't have a good answer.Ideally, only people who actually know what domain registration (andDNS) entails, from a high-level technical perspective, should bepermitted to register a domain. So they don't necessarily need to knowthe details of actually running a BIND server, but they should at leastknow the rules for e.g. how many servers are required, what DNS recordsare required for a minimal zone file. Perhaps they could also berequired to update their individual whois records. It used to be thatcontacts were references to domain handles, so that as long as yourindividual handle was up to date, you wouldn't have to update everydomain for which you were responsible. I don't know if that exists anylonger.

Another possibility might be to enforce penalties if a user doesn'tupdate his whois records. For example, if I leave my organization, butdon't pass on my domain responsibilities to someone else in theorganization, perhaps I have to pay a penalty. A successful pass-off ofresponsibility would entail the new person explicitly acceptingresponsibility of the domain; I couldn't just silently update therecords and make up a name that goes nowhere.

I suspect that most nontechnical people would protest many of thesemeasures. They would rather people be able to register domains easily,and the fact that many people will screw up their domains doesn'tmatter. I can actually understand that viewpoint; it's ademocratization of domain registration that is certainly desirable. SoI don't know how to address their concerns while still keeping domainregistration limited to people who know what they're doing.

Post by Keith KellerThat's a good question, and one for which I don't have a good answer.Ideally, only people who actually know what domain registration (andDNS) entails, from a high-level technical perspective, should bepermitted to register a domain.

If it doesn't hurt you what's the problem? Even if Fry's domain expired andI needed to reach them, I'd look up their phone number and call them. Imean, DUH...

Believe it or not, a LOT of people know about domain names. I have acomputer customer who is, unfortunately, dumb as a brick, and is convincedshe is going to get rich selling her handmade necklaces on the web. Shereceived an insurance settlement over an accident (she has mobility issues),and she has managed to register 3 domain names (to reach 3 times as manypeople), is hosted by 1and1, and has set up an LLC corporation. She has herregistration certificate on her living room wall. She managed to find anecommerce website to handle orders, credit cards, and all that. She nevergraduated grade school, and worked as a housekeeper until she slipped off aporch.

People, even those we consider the dumbest of the dumb, can do amazingthings when they set their minds to it. Never underestimate people, eventhose you think are lame.

Post by Keith KellerMy ISP emails me every so often with my whoisrecords, but if I leave and cut off my email address, what happens tothat email?

I wait until the last few days before renewing domain names so that I mightget special renewal offers. I have all my domains listed with GoDaddy. Iget emails, of course, but I also get snail mail postcards, which I think isa good thing. Though I have a phone number listed I've never been phoned bythem, though that might happen if I allow a domain name to lapse; who knows?Interesting that has happened over the years is that I'm no longer solicitedby dozens of registrars. Used to be that I'd get so main of these that Iset up a separate email account just to deal with the domain name email.Now the only stuff I get is from GoDaddy.

Speaking of Fry's, where's their app? If anyone should have an appFry's should. But they don't. I see several third party apps thatapparently just go to the Fry's site. Kroger's has one for the grocerychain but Fry's Electronics does not. I thought the revision of the sitewas to make it work better for an app. We are in the "mobile first"phase of the Internet, after all.

Of course the Fry family were locals and I've got some of the tales fromfolks who knew them and even involved when the sons started theelectronics stores. Not surprised they are a little behind the curve.