And a friend of mine was also a MMA champion, and lifted the entire time he was a beltholder.

Anecdotes are so neat!

Click to expand...

beside the point entirely...he probably would be better if he did lift. The point is that advanced levels of strength arent necessary for an athlete and would even be detrimental to the training focus that should be(skills, conditioning)

strength is very important but after a certain point it doesn't yield the benefits that match the effort and recovery you put in. Same goes with conditioning but in a different context. You don't need to be a powerlifter or a marathon runner but lifting and running do help considerably. For Muay Thai I'd guess squats are better than sumo deads but you'd want to be squatting and deadlifting.

And a friend of mine was also a MMA champion, and lifted the entire time he was a beltholder.

Anecdotes are so neat!

Click to expand...

While leverage and strength are incredibly useful, being able to lift heavy weights is arguably not that important for MMA. Some form of resistance training, S&C training yes, but necessarily powerlifting or heavy barbells? Don't know. Something as multifaceted as MMA requires a lot of different types and applications of strength and balance, and lifting strength doesn't necessarily translate to the mat or cage. I'm not saying that it hurts or anything, but it tends not to make a big difference who can outlift who.

Just for the sake of discussion, which org was he champion in? Going with the anecdotes.
I train with UFC and Bellator fighters, and other high level pros, and only one, as far as I know, routinely lifts weights. They are all strong as bulls though from wrestling, grappling, kickboxing, sparring and the other S&C stuff they do. I think it's an American thing most of all being a little bit obsessed with the weight room.

Interestingly, Anderson, Fedor, Aldo, Conor and GSP have all said that they don't believe doing heavy barbell training/lifting heavy weights is very useful for MMA. All greats. Ali said he never did weights and did BW stuff instead. Even Tyson didn't before he got out of prison really. Not to mention all the other greats during the golden era of boxing, who were a lot better than the guys nowadays. Never touched weights. Frazier couldn't even press 170lbs overhead. I guess being a heavyweight in MMA, max strength is more important and to be fair some have sworn by it too.

Ultimately it probably comes down to style, preference and inherent strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Personally I like doing BW for my upper body, some heavy barbells for the lower and more unilateral exercises for balance, stability and strength. I feel like especially the added stability from the unilateral work has helped out. Also, actually running and jumping rope has helped out a lot with my movement. Oh and getting more limber. But hey, I get destroyed sparring and fighting the guys at the gym so what do I know.

While leverage and strength are incredibly useful, being able to lift heavy weights is arguably not that important for MMA. Some form of resistance training, S&C training yes, but necessarily powerlifting or heavy barbells? Don't know. Something as multifaceted as MMA requires a lot of different types and applications of strength and balance, and lifting strength doesn't necessarily translate to the mat or cage. I'm not saying that it hurts or anything, but it tends not to make a big difference who can outlift who.

Just for the sake of discussion, which org was he champion in? Going with the anecdotes.
I train with UFC and Bellator fighters, and other high level pros, and only one, as far as I know, routinely lifts weights. They are all strong as bulls though from wrestling, grappling, kickboxing, sparring and the other S&C stuff they do. I think it's an American thing most of all being a little bit obsessed with the weight room.

Interestingly, Anderson, Fedor, Aldo, Conor and GSP have all said that they don't believe doing heavy barbell training/lifting heavy weights is very useful for MMA. All greats. Ali said he never did weights and did BW stuff instead. Even Tyson didn't before he got out of prison really. Not to mention all the other greats during the golden era of boxing, who were a lot better than the guys nowadays. Never touched weights. Frazier couldn't even press 170lbs overhead. I guess being a heavyweight in MMA, max strength is more important and to be fair some have sworn by it too.

Ultimately it probably comes down to style, preference and inherent strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Personally I like doing BW for my upper body, some heavy barbells for the lower and more unilateral exercises for balance, stability and strength. I feel like especially the added stability from the unilateral work has helped out. Also, actually running and jumping rope has helped out a lot with my movement. Oh and getting more limber. But hey, I get destroyed sparring and fighting the guys at the gym so what do I know.

Click to expand...

You can be very effective without weights lots of champions did well without them but it is superior to use weights the right way (strength base no /limited size gains) also there are far more people using weights incorrectly that would be better off not using weights at all (ie bulking up too much with near useless muscle)

While leverage and strength are incredibly useful, being able to lift heavy weights is arguably not that important for MMA. Some form of resistance training, S&C training yes, but necessarily powerlifting or heavy barbells? Don't know. Something as multifaceted as MMA requires a lot of different types and applications of strength and balance, and lifting strength doesn't necessarily translate to the mat or cage. I'm not saying that it hurts or anything, but it tends not to make a big difference who can outlift who.

Just for the sake of discussion, which org was he champion in? Going with the anecdotes.
I train with UFC and Bellator fighters, and other high level pros, and only one, as far as I know, routinely lifts weights. They are all strong as bulls though from wrestling, grappling, kickboxing, sparring and the other S&C stuff they do. I think it's an American thing most of all being a little bit obsessed with the weight room.

Interestingly, Anderson, Fedor, Aldo, Conor and GSP have all said that they don't believe doing heavy barbell training/lifting heavy weights is very useful for MMA. All greats. Ali said he never did weights and did BW stuff instead. Even Tyson didn't before he got out of prison really. Not to mention all the other greats during the golden era of boxing, who were a lot better than the guys nowadays. Never touched weights. Frazier couldn't even press 170lbs overhead. I guess being a heavyweight in MMA, max strength is more important and to be fair some have sworn by it too.

Ultimately it probably comes down to style, preference and inherent strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. Personally I like doing BW for my upper body, some heavy barbells for the lower and more unilateral exercises for balance, stability and strength. I feel like especially the added stability from the unilateral work has helped out. Also, actually running and jumping rope has helped out a lot with my movement. Oh and getting more limber. But hey, I get destroyed sparring and fighting the guys at the gym so what do I know.

Click to expand...

My God man, pull the damn stick out of your ass.

Every damn time. No one said anything about powerlifting.

He was a UFC champion. And yes he lifted weights regularly. He was the one who got me into wrestling and strength training.

I don't know how you think giving more anecdotes, somehow invalidates my statement. That was the whole point. Some guys are successful and lift. Some are successful and don't lift. Some guys are successful and run. Some are successful and don't. Many guys are successful in spite of their training methods.

You continue to build strawmen to fight against though. Good luck with that.

He was a UFC champion. And yes he lifted weights regularly. He was the one who got me into wrestling and strength training.

I don't know how you think giving more anecdotes, somehow invalidates my statement. That was the whole point. Some guys are successful and lift. Some are successful and don't lift. Some guys are successful and run. Some are successful and don't. Many guys are successful in spite of their training methods.

You continue to build strawmen to fight against though. Good luck with that.

Click to expand...

I said heavy barbells/powerlifting so if that's not the criteria then that's cool too. Relax. If you want to take heavy Bench, Squats and DLs out of the equation then that's fine.

I wouldn't exactly call it successful in spite of their training. I'm just noting that the majority of greats in the sport, who have all tried lifting heavy, ie doing heavy squats, bench, OHP and DL, opted against it, and for other methods, for whatever reason. I think those are valued opinions. With that, I wouldn't say that you shouldn't, but I think it's evident that it's not the end all be all for fighting. Seems like we agree on that finally.