Hi Helge,
I largely agree with you. Yes of course every needs to be widely configurable.
To me the phone be able to be confiured to a range starting from fixed IP and
just sitting there waiting for it's masters orders to booking automatically
into known WLANs and downloading updates without any user interaction. Between
these two extremes there are numerous layers of asking for
permission/confirmation, just notifying me of something, etc., which of course
should also be configurable.
Probably a standard for "convenience levels" would help to describe what the
phone should do or not do. Or usage scenarios like "I'm just a user on
holiday, trying to find the next free wifi hotspot" or "I'm the companies
administrator and believe me I know what I'm doing". Applications or the phone
as such could adhere to this and behave appropriate.
Regards
thomas
On Tuesday 06 January 2009 12:03 Helge Hafting wrote:
> Thomas Otterbein wrote:
> > Now when it comes to "real users" I believe the discussion about the best
> > fixed IP-Number or a pool of dynamic numbers is far too short-sighted. As
> > a true linux user by hard for many year now I have no problem in running
> > a couple of commands to connect my Freerunner to my machine and configure
> > it's internet connection to get some updates. However on the long run, if
> > I will have to continue doing it like that I consider it a confession of
> > failure.
>> Sure. The default should "just work". And there should be
> configurability for those with different needs. Such as updating 30
> company phones all connected to the same usb hub...
>> > M$ and Apple are successful with their devices because users do not have
> > to care at all about IP-Numbers or editing /etc/resolv.conf. Neither do
> > today's
>> And they "fail" because you usually can't do anything out of the
> ordinary. Connect just one phone to the PC at a time, please. Connect
> two phones to each other with a usb cable? Why would anyone want that?
> A networked phone game that doesn't need to call into one of our servers
> - where is the money in that . . .
>> > Linux-Users as the vast majority is using DHCP on their
> > DSL-(WiFi)-Routers They plug it in or move into a certain location and
> > things just happen as expected.
> >
> > Believe me I don't like the side effects that come with all this
> > automatisms, which is why I bought the freerunner so I have the freedom
> > to change it. However as I sit in front of my desktop day by day already
> > strangling with a more or less constant level of "configuration problems"
> > (network gone, faulty acpi, xorg update broke screen resolution, etc.). I
> > would really love to have my phone "just work" sometime in the relatively
> > near future.
>> I agree that it should "just work" as far as possible. And the expert
> user can always make changes precisely because this is linux.
>> Still, the way to "just works" is to use existing standards as
> much as possible. A fixed IP address is a last resort. Use that only if
> we have to. If this phone (or the next one) makes it to mass markets,
> then there will be families with several phones. It may be convenient
> to charge & update them at the same time from the same PC. Your friend
> with the same phone might visit. You may want to surf the net at the
> same time. It'd be nice if all this "just works" too,
> and it won't when all phones share a fixed address.
>> Running DHCP on the PC's usb interface is one way to make this case
> "just work". Combining link-local addresses with NAT is perhaps another
> way. A fixed address won't do the trick.
>> Either way, some software has to be set up on the PC. But that is OK,
> even windows people are used to installing a "driver CD" in order
> to connect their new phone to the computer. If this software then
> allows plugging in all your phones at the same time, so much the better!
>> > For example a user friendly but still linux-like phone could ask me:
> > "Hey, while you already have decided to go on the internet (via usb or
> > wifi or gprs, it's my decision and not limited by design flaws) shouldn't
> > I download the latest updates in the background?"
> > or
> > "Um, I sense your bluetooth-enabled desktop is nearby. Shall I quickly
> > sync your appointments and contacts with your favourite OpenSync-enabled
> > PIM-Suite (or even with nasty Outlook)?"
>> Do this or don't do this. Make it a setup option.
> But please - don't pop up questions! Questions
> that pop up while I use the phone gets in my way - yuk. Questions
> that pop up while the phone is in my pocket just wastes CPU effort
> and drains the battery. And it is particularly nasty if I pull the
> phone out of my pocket to make a call, and have to wade through
> 2-3 items that popped up since the last use - items that may even be
> irrelevant now that I have moved around.
>> With SHR I already get one such popup - the one that suggests charging
> the nearly empty battery. The warning makes sense, but I usually
> put the phone on charging without looking at the screen, and the
> popup hang around forever until I need to use the thing. So often
> enough, I see this power complaint combined with a full battery.
> Of course this case can be fixed - the phone notices that
> power gets plugged in, and could remove the warning.
>>> Helge Hafting
>>>> _______________________________________________
> Openmoko community mailing list
>community at lists.openmoko.org>http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/community