Police are still looking for the driver of the gray or silver Honda Odyssey that caused the crash claiming the lives of two children on US-23 Friday.

Jeffrey Smith | AnnArbor.com

Trooper Nolan Pryzbylo said Monday that several tips had been called in reporting gray or silver Odysseys with damage since Friday’s crash, which claimed the lives of Royal Oak siblings Jordan Siegel, 14, and Ashley Siegel, 11.

The two children were passengers in a 1999 Ford Expedition driven by their stepmother, Dawn Siegel.

Police believe the driver of the Odyssey moved into the lane occupied by the Expedition. Witnesses told police the Odyssey made contact with the Expedition, causing the full-size SUV to roll several times and come to rest in the median.

Przybylo said he hadn’t seen a hit-and-run accident of that magnitude before.

“The circumstance of the location defined the severity of the crash,” he said of the area of southbound US-23 south of Michigan Avenue, where the crash occurred.

“The Expedition is a safe vehicle, but I’m not certain any vehicle is made or prepared to go through what that one went through. It was an exceptionally violent crash.”

Siegel was driving with her four children and two step-children in the full-size SUV when the crash occurred. Przybylo said he's been told two passengers were still in the hospital in serious but stable condition, while three other occupants of the Expedition had been released.

The funeral for Ashley and Jordan is schedule for noon Tuesday at the Dorfman Chapel, 30440 West 12 Mile Road in Farmington Hills, according to the chapel's website.

Ashley Siegel

Courtesy of The Dorfman Chapel

Patch.com in Royal Oak reported the two children were students at Royal Oak Middle School. The school was opened Monday to provide support and assistance to the school’s students, according to the report.

The family will then be sitting shiva at the home of Marc and Dawn Siegel, 22843 Brookforest in Novi, following Jewish customs, according to the report. They will receive visitors following the interment Tuesday and from 5-9 p.m. on both Wednesday and Thursday, Patch reported.

The full police report on the incident is still not completed, Pryzyblo said. The crash reconstructionist has not been able to confirm that contact was made between the Odyssey and the Expedition, although a witness following the Odyssey reported there was.

Jordan Siegel

Courtesy of The Dorfman Chapel

The Odyssey continued to drive southbound on US-23 following the crash, and Pryzyblo said investigators are doing as much as they can to track the vehicle.

Although a witness directly behind the Odyssey reported there was a temporary license plate in the rear window, Pryzyblo said it was unclear if the paper indicated the van was newly purchased or was given a temporary license plate because police had seized the permanent one.

Pryzyblo said there is no easy way to search for temporary plates issued to vehicles through the Michigan Secretary of State’s office.

“Unfortunately, there isn’t a way to search that without going to every Honda dealership in Michigan,” he said. He added that the fact that the vehicle was headed south on US-23 meant it could have been an out-of-state vehicle.

Pryzyblo said he was heartened by the number of people who'd stopped at the crash to provide help for the occupants of the Expedition.

However, he encouraged anyone who witnesses a hit-and-run crash to follow the suspect vehicle — without risking their safety or anyone else’s safety — in order to provide a good description of the vehicle, license plate number or any other relevant information.

Without the public’s help, the suspects in hit-and-run cases can often escape prosecution, he said.

“Unfortunately, they get away and they never get held accountable for their actions,” he said.

“That person needs to be held accountable for their actions.”

The driver of the Honda Odyssey has been reported to be a woman in her 40s.

Pryzyblo said troopers are following up with the investigation, but encouraged any member of the public with information on the crash to call in tips to Crime Stoppers at 1-800-SPEAK UP (773-2587) or to call the Michigan State Police Brighton Post directly at 810-227-1051.

Comments

LetThePoisonOut

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 4:53 p.m.

What a horrible story. It is an unfortunate reminder that it is way too easy to obtain a drivers license, and way to easy to maintain possession of a license. I have a long commute every morning and afternoon (23 and 96) from Ann Arbor to Lansing and there is never a day when I don't see at least one example of bad driving. Usually people are in a hurry for who knows what and are excessively speeding, weaving in and out of traffic like they're participating in a NASCAR race.

JRW

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 3:59 p.m.

I keep reading about more and more of these hit and run accidents, here and around the country. People are not taking responsibility for their actions, even when there are horrendous consequences for things that they do. This seems to be an increasing pattern, and quite frankly, it's very disturbing. Someone must have seen something. US 23 is a busy highway with lots of cars. If the driver of the van is caught, I hope the penalties are high.
I will add that a lot of people are driving vehicles that are too large for them to manage. I have seen many drivers of vans and SUVs pulling out of parking spaces, not looking behind them, just looking forward, backing up and hoping for the best, and nearly wiping out passing cars, for example. I have also seen drivers in large vehicles not look to the right or left before changing lanes on highways, etc., so there is a problem, not only with distracted driving, but with drivers who are behind the wheel of vehicles that are just too large for them, some vehicles with blind spots, and then coupled with being too lazy to look before changing lanes or backing up. All of this is a recipe for accidents and fatalities.

AlwaysLate

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 3:11 p.m.

Sorry to be late.
Concerning the Temp Plate issue...
Temp Plates are not typically issued in connection with New or Used transactions...unless, the purchase was here in Michigan and the Honda will be registered in another state, such as Ohio.
If the Honda was a pre-owned transaction then the number of dealers to be contacted just multiplied ten fold. Because any dealer could have a used Honda in their inventory...
Then it typically takes a few days for dealers to report sales to the Secretary of State.
Even if we assume the SOS processes the transaction in an efficient manner, add a few more days to the schedule.
And what if the Temp Plate was from another state and the Honda was just visiting Michigan?
This will take time...be patient, the offender will be found.

pbehjatnia

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 1:50 p.m.

From WDIV.com:
Police say the children's stepmother, Dawn Siegel, tried to avoid the vehicle by swerving into the median but lost control.
Witnesses tell police the minivan driver may be an Arabic woman about 40 years old. The minivan had continued southbound on US 23 after the crash
Go ahead annarbor.com - delete me.

dexterreader

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 12:39 p.m.

This is one of the saddest stories I've read in a long time. This driver needs to step forward, whether there was contact between the two vehicles or not. I can't believe the person driving the other vehicle could not know s/he caused this heart-breaking incident. Please .... whoever and wherever you are .... be an adult and take responsibility for your actions. My prayers go out to this family. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of losing two of your children under any circumstances.

Fester

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 12:12 p.m.

Were the victims wearing seat belts?

SuperiorMother

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 12:45 p.m.

An earlier article indicated that it appeared everyone in the SUV had been wearing a seatbelt.

GoNavy

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 11:34 a.m.

It's entirely possible that the minivan simply cut the SUV off, and had no idea that s/he caused an accident. We may never find that driver and - if it's the case that no contact was made - I have to wonder what the charges might ever be (though admittedly I'm not a LEO so I'm not aware of what's out there).

Eight Ball

Wed, Jun 27, 2012 : 6:01 a.m.

It may be that the unknown driver was not at fault.

Tiffany

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 3:32 p.m.

Did she also not notice the damage to her van?

Paul Wiener

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 2:29 p.m.

I completely agree with you, and said so in my comment. As you probably know already, it's a very unpopular position to take, since it's based on logic and on only what is currently known. If it's a blameless incident, and no &quot;perp&quot; is ever found, it's still just as tragic. Perhaps moreso. Most &quot;accidents&quot; are.

average joe

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 11:16 a.m.

&quot;Pryzyblo said there is no easy way to search for temporary plates issued to vehicles through the Michigan Secretary of State's office&quot;
With the database that the SOS has, one would think that this state office should be able to turn over these records relatively easy.

GoNavy

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 11:34 a.m.

It's not easy because, despite the money we spend on this sort of thing, the money goes instead to padding benefits rather than creating the sort of IT infrastructure that might be helpful in cases such as this one.

Daniel Neal

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 10:11 p.m.

I was one of the first people on the scene. I talked to all involved to make sure they were somewhat ok and made sure the car was not running or leaking fluids. I was able to call her husband and tell him what had happened. I had my own family in the car with us as we were traveling back to Tennessee. What I had seen will stick with me for the rest of my life. Im still numb over what has happened. We have prayed for them and all involved. My five year old was crying and praying for them as all of us were doing anything and everything we could. It still saddens me to have seen this happen to them and for the loss of those souls. We can only pray that something good and positive is to come of this. I know for me this event has changed my life forever. Please continue to pray for them as it will not go any easier they will only be able to find a way to handle the situation and get through it.

BusyMom

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 2:06 p.m.

I can't believe no one has said this, Thank you. Thank you for stopping, for helping and for making the worst phone call you'll hopefully ever make. Years ago, we were traveling and a similar accident happened in front of us. We too made that same kind of phone call, it's still something everyone in my family remembers. I know that family is grateful for everyone that tried to help. My kids are the same ages as those that were lost in this terrible accident, my heart breaks for this family. I wish I could not work and go to every body shop in the area posting flyers to find this minivan, those kids deserve that.
It's comforting to know there are people like you that are still out there.

Laura Jones

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 9:55 p.m.

On the off chance the driver is reading these columns: Be smart. Get a lawyer and turn yourself in. Every day you wait makes it worse for you in the long run. Nothing can change what happened, but you can change how things go in the future.
Sooner or later you will be caught - which will be worse than having turned yourself in. It may well be this was an accident on your part, but no one will ever believe you if you wait for the police to catch you.

JRW

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 4:04 p.m.

Unfortunately, these hit and run drivers with damage to their vehicles can always go to another state, like Ohio, for example, and the damage repaired. I doubt that all Honda dealers and small garages have been notified in a 200 mile radius to be on the look out for a damaged Honda minivan driven by a 40-something person. And, if the van is driveable, which seems to be the case, the person responsible may not even get the damaged repaired for a long time.

simone66

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 2:44 a.m.

Regardless of how wreckless a driver is driving, they do look back in their rearview mirror at the car they cut off. The driver of the car in question, KNOWS what she did, and she kept on driving out of fear of what would happen to her in causing this horrific accident. I hope she is found soon - I doubt she has the guts to turn herself in.

insguy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 9:19 p.m.

Do we know on what side the Odyssey is damaged?
I urge everyone who reads this be on the lookout for that vehicle (although it may never see the light of day again)...

julieswhimsies

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:47 p.m.

Those fresh young faces. :(

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:17 p.m.

You don't just give up because the search could take you down a difficult path.
I tried to run some numbers, and it's a guess because statistics break down with small sample sizes, but I'd estimate that from 50-80 silver or grey Odysseys have been sold in Michigan in the last 30 days.
A decent investigation would have had at least the Metro area portion of that list in hand within hours. That's with just 2-3 investigators working car identification.
If that failed to work, expand the search to Ohio, though I think that's unlikely. The crash did not occur during commute time. All reports indicate a woman was driving, but no mention of anyone in the passenger seat (maybe indicating a trip). And the Odyssey is marketed toward moms and more local use. So there's a high chance the driver lives quite close to the scene - maybe in Saline or Milan. Next, you call every body shop in the area - that wouldn't take very long.
Maybe that doesn't work, either, but the point is that if you want to be taken seriously as an investigative force, you don't throw up your hands and say, &quot;it's too hard.&quot; You methodically exhaust the more likely theories and you close that net. If that woman caused that accident, you're looking at a serious felony. In a civilized society, we don't let that go.

Julius

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:49 p.m.

I'm reasonably sure the authorities are doing all they can -- they're just not going to talk about specifics.

djacks24

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:31 p.m.

If you are this passionate about finding the driver, actions are far more productive than spending time complaining in a comments section. What are you doing in your free time?

Paul Wiener

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:10 p.m.

Won't the urgency of mounting a widespread, costly, detailed, lengthy investigation to find the Odyssey - and I believe it is eminently findable - be influenced by the fact that even if its driver is found it will be next to impossible to prove that it is a hit and run case, for many reasons? (maybe contact wasn't made; maybe the driver was unaware of what happened, or of her part in it; or she was temporarily disabled; sudden lane changes aren't felony offenses; maybe the driver who crashed should have been a better driver, etc) A good lawyer will, from the evidence presented so far, have little trouble defending the driver. As tragic and awful as this is....

Woman in Ypsilanti

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 5:02 p.m.

I kind of wondered if the driver of the Honda even realized what happened. If there was no contact between the vehicles, she might not have even realized that an accident occurred. I have a friend who got arrested (but not convicted) of hit and run because he was able to successfully convince the prosecutors that he didn't realize an accident had occurred. It was a very similar situation too. He had changed lanes without checking his blind spot, the car that was in his blind spot slammed on their brakes and was rear ended by the car behind. No one was hurt in that case though but someone got the plate number and several witnesses insisted that his car had hit the first car. There was no evidence of that on his car, however, so he was not charged.

Paul Wiener

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 2:24 p.m.

You're all missing the point. That the driver was a &quot;killer&quot; is pure hyperbole. That she &quot;left the scene of an accident&quot; is unproven and an opinion (you have to know you've caused the accident to leave the scene), and could even be a misperception., as many &quot;eyewitness&quot; accounts are. You might as well say the drivers behind (or in front of) the Odyssey let her - or her license plate number - get away. The DA can charge what he will, but I still say the worst case - legally speaking - could be very hard to make stick, though some sort of case might be made.

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:59 p.m.

&quot;...even if its driver is found it will be next to impossible to prove that it is a hit and run case...&quot;
The fact that they left the scene of an accident they were involved in makes it hit and run. They might plead to something different but the DA holds the cards.

julieswhimsies

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:50 p.m.

They're looking for a killer here! You're worried about the COST?! I don't care if they spend a million dollars.

Harry Hunter

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:50 p.m.

Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime.

mtlaurel

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:46 p.m.

it could be anything: a car and plate that had not been renewed so a person&quot;fudged&quot; a temp plate....a temp plate from a different purchased car of a relative,placed on this car,whose registration and insurance lapsed. Almost impossible..... The way she disapeared so fast-probably knew 'Off&quot; highway routes,though. People do know when a neighbor or co-worker's car is new and/or disapears. This will be up to a citizen to say,&quot;where is your Odyssey?&quot; I wonder if this vehicle can be traced...that may be why she did not stop...something wasn 't right with the vehicle. People will have to notice something now about their neighbor or co-worker's Odyssey ...and report it.

brimble

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:44 p.m.

Here's the problem with &quot;paper plates&quot; and tracking anything on that basis:
When a dealer gets applies for a new MI tag on behalf of the vehicle purchaser, the dealer issues a temporary &quot;pink&quot; tag which is good for 15 days. The dealerships buy those in packs of 100 and most only keep a paper log of to what car any given tag is issued. The state has no direct record.
If the vehicle is sold by a MI dealer to an out-of-state resident, the state issues a separate 15-day &quot;in-transit&quot; tag. The SOS may or may not have record of those issues in a searchable database.
If an individual wants to transfer a metal tag from one car to another, they can buy a &quot;30-day&quot; temporary paper tag for the back window at an SOS office.
If an individual has their metal plate seized by the State for DUI-type offences, the SOS issues a &quot;30-day&quot; paper tag.
Vehicles purchased in other states may have those states versions of &quot;in-transit&quot; or &quot;temporary&quot; tags in the window as well.
The Honda Odyssey sells in high numbers. Nowhere have I seen anyone identify whether the van appeared to be brand-new or 10 years old, and to the casual observer, the difference might not be obvious.
Where does the search start?

Andrew

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:19 p.m.

Forget about the license plate, doesn't the SOS have a record of title applications? If they purchased the vehicle from a dealer of any kind, wouldn't they have immediately processed an electronic title transfer? Even if they purchased from a private party and somehow got a paper plate (which I've never gotten, but I guess they could have) you would think at some point a title transfer would have to take place, unless they now know it is hot and park it somewhere.
Sure sounds like the SOS needs a refresh. I know some states at least appear to use more advanced temporary tags. They should also be required to go where your plate goes - people often hang them in their tinted windows and you can't see them - which is also useless if they just have a date rather than a code.
Good luck, wish I could think of a way to help. Who knows, if this person was like the many oblivious people driving she may not have even noticed she caused an accident.

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:54 p.m.

I have been almost hit by cell phone drivers who have absolutely no clue they cut the other person off. I totally agree with this post though. With all the computer tech we have these days why can't the SOS find it this way? Good luck and I will be reading updates.

a2susan

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:59 p.m.

I'm just thinking about the pain of this poor family. Two children dead and two still in the hospital in serious condition. Life is so precious and it can just change without warning in a nanosecond. Even if the alleged woman is found who is believed to cause this accident, it can't change what has happened. Be careful out there for everyone's sake.

Andy Frazier

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:37 p.m.

So very true. No parent should ever have to endure the loss of one child, much less two. Our hearts and prayers go out to the family.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:01 p.m.

good point.

tommy_t

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:43 p.m.

Aren't there any traffic cams for southbound 23 - down thru the various cities, exit ramps or Ohio border?

JRW

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 4:07 p.m.

Bingo. Traffic cameras would be a big help along US 23 given all the accidents in both directions.

A2comments

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 9:10 p.m.

We're getting them in our area, but that unless they were up already, doesn't help this situation. http://www.annarbor.com/news/freeway-cameras-will-monitor-traffic-flow-in-ann-arbor-area/

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:52 p.m.

The Detroit highways do have cameras. Great idea. I wonder that myself.

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:15 p.m.

Big brother? The commenters here would be spazzing out if our civil liberties were being infringed upon by a surveillance camera.

Cash

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:26 p.m.

This tragedy takes me back to the article last week about speed limits being raised to match the speed of the traffic.
I ask you all after reading this article: Is that what we want? More speed? I'm not faulting any of the drivers involved here....just thinking .....is the hurry worth it? Really?

Mike

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 12:19 p.m.

Did it say this was a high speed crash? Any speed on the highway is deadly unless they lower the limit to 25 mph.

average joe

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 11:10 a.m.

I don't recall reading any fact that either of these two vehicles were speeding.

snark12

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 3:25 a.m.

This has nothing to do with this tragic accident but, with reference to the earlier articles on raising speed limits, please remember that endless studies and traffic experience show that raising the posted speed limit does almost nothing to change the speeds at which people drive. It may be counter-intuitive but it's the truth. So raising a speed limit doesn't not imply people will drive faster and have more accidents. It's often the opposite: fewer accidents if the road had previously been posted with a speed limit significantly lower than rate at which traffic was really moving.

Cash

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 11:19 p.m.

What part of &quot;I'm not faulting any of the drivers involved here&quot; didn't a couple folks get?
I'm an older person and I find myself now, more than ever, thinking about how we hurry through life and then look back and wish we'd slowed down.
I highly doubt illegal speed caused this accident folks. (as I stated not faulting drivers in this wreck). I'm thinking of the BIG picture....the freeways, or insane rabid HURRY.....that makes us drive 70mph....in GENERAL!
As I get near the end of my life, I do look back and wonder if all of the rush and hurry was worth it. Really, was it worth it?
Maybe I'll take the slow roads and leave the rush to everyone else.

Julius

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:57 p.m.

I meant to say &quot;freeway&quot; not &quot;free&quot;.

Julius

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 8:56 p.m.

If you're going to blame speed, you might as well go ahead and blame sudden steering maneuvers as well because it's never JUST speed.
You can't follow that line of reasoning very far in this context because you start speculating about who did what and &quot;shoulda woulda coulda&quot;. That does no good here.
The critical points in free driving are awareness and self control. Focus on those things and the speed takes care of itself.

Madeleine Borthwick

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:56 p.m.

Cash. good point. speed is not everything. the hurry is not worth anyone's life. slow down already!!! the life you save may be mine! call me crazy but I've had too many close calls while trying to cross the street on foot and I'm not going to be quiet about it anymore. anyone who tries to run me over is going to see me at my foul-mouthed, screaming worst. Hey, I'd like to see my grandkids grow up.

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:51 p.m.

OMG! I heard that last week. I 96 is possibly raising the speed limit to 85. How scary is that? Thanks Cash for the brain thump.

djacks24

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:35 p.m.

Why not post sources contrary to what MDOT has already posted about higher speeds and crashes (if I remember the same article, AA.com had posted MDOT's findings). While you are at that, prove to the police that speed was a factor here as well?

Tesla

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:10 p.m.

To the investigators. Go Get Em!
Has there been any release to the national press about this?
Is there any rewards offered?
Facebook pages about the driver of the Honda?
We need to make sure this gets the bump it needs press wise and that it stays on the front page and on the front of everyone's mind.
I dunno.....Just thinkin out loud here I guess. I don't know what else to do.
*grumbles*

djacks24

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:05 p.m.

To all those screaming for the head of the Honda driver, whats the point of cell phone records, a mass investigation of all Honda's sold within a 500 mile area, or a mass inquiry at the secretary of states office, if they don't even know for sure it was hit and run? These things take time and that's why they are asking tips from the public and not asking how to do their job.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:25 p.m.

&quot;Craig, let's not dangle our modifiers.&quot;
busted...;)

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:05 p.m.

&quot;...So maybe she has no idea if she traveled a long way.&quot;
Craig, let's not dangle our modifiers.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:48 p.m.

&quot;Regardless of whether there was contact, there is someone out there wondering if she is the woman who they are looking for.&quot;
Playing the what if game....what if she was driving to Georgia or Alabama or Florida and its not really news down there? I read news sites around the country and these sorts of things, tragic as they are, are local. Other areas have their own tragedies that we never read about. So maybe she has no idea if she traveled a long way.

Basic Bob

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 6:20 p.m.

Regardless of whether there was contact, there is someone out there wondering if she is the woman who they are looking for. Hopefully she is not hiding the car in a garage until the trail goes cold, but I guess there are plenty of people capable of that, which is why hit-and-run cases are punished so severely.

umichjim

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:18 p.m.

Seems that you can check a temporary paper license which is only good for 30 days through the Secretary of State, cross referenced by the type of vehicle. There could not be many Honda Odysseys with temp. plates. Should not be a difficult task. The computer program should be able to do a quick sort.

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:49 p.m.

But they said this was a possible out of state vehicle as well. So, we cross reference paper plates with every Honda dealer in the nation? I am also thinking what if someone needs a new plate in the nation that is this type of vehicle? I just don't see the man power on that one. Great ideas though.

justcurious

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:58 p.m.

A temporary plate can be issued for time periods other than 30 days. I bought my motorcycle from an Ann Arbor dealer who kept giving me two week temporary plates because they said the permanent one had not yet come in. They just dragged their heels on getting it for 6 weeks. It was a real inconvenience. But you would think they would have to notify the Sec. of State when they issue one, with information on the vehicle.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:49 p.m.

&quot;The computer program should be able to do a quick sort.&quot;
There are certainly programs that could. Its pretty elementary. But that doesn't mean the state has such a program....or that information gets fed in a timely fashion. Maybe the &quot;information feeders&quot; are working on January right now.

Andy Frazier

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:24 p.m.

Exactly what I was thinking!

RJA

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:59 p.m.

Perhaps the 28 Honda Dealers in Michigan can do some checking themselves once they hear of this accident. (it would be nice if some of the dealerships in Ohio would check too). This woman should be caught ASAP, my thoughts and prayers go to the familys of these 2 teenagers. (and others injured). Dealers please do a search, if you don't sell a car today, sowhat?

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:47 p.m.

28? Wow, someone did their homework. I didn't know that.

ummsw

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:55 p.m.

Question..is it not possible to track paper plates via Sec of Sec? Even if you don't have a number..How many
of these plates are issued?

ummsw

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:30 p.m.

Thanks

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:22 p.m.

&quot;...Pryzyblo said there is no easy way to search for temporary plates issued to vehicles through the Michigan Secretary of State's office...&quot;

Michael Corliss

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:31 p.m.

At Andy and Macabre--The accident was Friday. This is Monday, around noon. Most, if not all, Honda dealers in SE MI are closed weekends. Add that the fact that the A2 police do not have an entire squad of detectives sitting around waiting for something like this to happen. They probably will have put between 2-4 officers on it. Plus this is one line of inquiry--there are undoubtedly others to follow up. Give them some time.

YpsiLivin

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:48 p.m.

Michael,
I checked the hours of about a dozen SE Michigan Honda dealers. They're all open on Saturdays, as are virtually all other car dealers here. Also, AAPD isn't investigating this accident. It is being investigated by the Michigan State Police.
Granted, going to 28 different dealerships involves more work than going to the Secretary of State, but its not impossible and my guess is that the dealers would be very cooperative. That having been said, there's nothing so far that says the Odyssey was brand new. It could have been a used vehicle, which would make the job of locating the car even more difficult.

Andy Frazier

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.

I was just about to write the same thing as Macabre Sunset. There were two FATALITIES in this accident! I don't care if there are 100 Honda dealerships in Michigan! Check them all! Why does it sound like the police aren't going to take this investigation much further?! And is that really true that there's no easy way to track temporary license plates through the Sec of State? Seriously, I don't care if it's easy or not - DO IT!

Madeleine Borthwick

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:50 p.m.

Absolutely, Andy!!!! we owe it to the memory of those kids to do whatever the H*** it takes to track down the you-know-what who did this. I could not care less how hard it is or how long it takes. JUST. DO. IT.

Andy Frazier

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:14 p.m.

Did I stutter?

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:49 p.m.

&quot;Why does it sound like the police aren't going to take this investigation much further?&quot;
Seriously?

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:17 p.m.

&quot;Unfortunately, there isn't a way to search that without going to every Honda dealership in Michigan&quot;
And on what police planet do we live if this has not already been done? This isn't exactly an investigation of the scope of Odysseus' return from Troy. There are only 28 Honda dealerships in Michigan.

Macabre Sunset

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:13 p.m.

That's a lot of what-iffing. An investigator would start with the most likely source and move down. A good investigator would know who to contact to get this information from a dealership during off-hours.
Issuing even temporary access to the roads constitutes a responsibility, and any business that does so would have a mechanism in place to respond to the police immediately.

a2citizen

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:48 p.m.

&quot;And on what police planet do we live if this has not already been done?&quot;
And all the dealers have abbreviated hourss and services on Saturdays and are closed on Sundays. So the possibility exists that the Saturday employees may not be able to answer a question regarding a temporary tag.
Also, just because it was a Honda does not mean the car was purchased at a Honda dealership. The Odyssey could have been a trade-in at any Ford, GM,... or used car dealership.

Billy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:36 p.m.

Ok, so what if the vehicle was bought from a private party...you get paper plates that way too if you ordered a &quot;special&quot; plate at SOS.
Or what if the vehicle was sold at one of the 100+ used car dealerships in the SE Michigan area?
The scope of this kind of search is a lot larger than even that officer was aware of when he said that.

Enso

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:13 p.m.

He's right, someone should have followed that Honda....

Peregrine

Tue, Jun 26, 2012 : 3:18 a.m.

@Steve Hendel: I believe you misinterpreted that statement. It's referring to the vehicle that was behind the Odyssey when it changed lanes just before the accident. Those in that vehicle probably saw much of what happened, pulled over to help, and talked to the investigating officers.

Steve Hendel

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 11:52 p.m.

But someone DID follow it:
The full police report on the incident is still not completed, Pryzyblo said. The crash reconstructionist has not been able to confirm that contact was made between the Odyssey and the Expedition, although a witness following the Odyssey reported there was.

jns131

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:45 p.m.

I totally agree. If I remember correctly, years ago someone did this and called the police while following a hit and run driver. I don't think they ever knew what hit them. Sorry for the pun. Good luck to the family. I know this is a very difficult time for them.

Billy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:10 p.m.

Ok cops, you want to find the Minivan driver this is what you do.
Pull the cellular tower records from all towers along 23 in that area.
Narrow down the numbers to only those that were traveling southbound.
It shouldn't be THAT large of a list of numbers since you have almost an exact time frame to check, and by pulling the records from multiple towers can you can piece together a timestamped path.
Now you can go investigate each of those numbers as possible suspects.

grimmk

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 7:38 p.m.

You watch way too much CSI, Law and Order and Castle. That will never work in the real world because of privacy laws.

djacks24

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:35 p.m.

&quot;Ok cops, you want to find the Minivan driver this is what you do.&quot;
I'm sure they will be combing the Comments section of AA.com for ideas on how to investigate further...

aggatt

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:56 p.m.

Nowhere in the article does it say that the driver was using a cell phone...

Billy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:45 p.m.

Ok so you have multiple towers along 23. Lets say towers A B C D and E...going from north to south...with tower A as the northern most, and E as the Southern most.
The phones that pings the towers in order of A, B, C, D, E.....are traveling southbound. Vice versa for northbound.
Knowing the time of the accident you can narrow down ONLY the numbers that were pinging the towers around that time.
The list REALLY shouldn't be that big.....MUCH MUCH smaller than trying to check EVERY car dealership in the state.

treetowncartel

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:23 p.m.

How in the world would you know if the phone was in a car on 23, let alone going southbound?

Honest Abe

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.

This may work....ON TV!

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:06 p.m.

&quot;Witnesses told police the Odyssey made contact with the Expedition, &quot;
&quot;The crash reconstructionist has not been able to confirm that contact was made between the Odyssey and the Expedition, although a witness following the Odyssey reported there was.&quot;
So was there one witness or more than one witness?

djacks24

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:54 p.m.

&quot;The person could have NO idea they caused this accident, which is why they kept going.&quot;
Could be a combination of this along with and overcompensating maneuver by the Expedition, to which already had a higher than normal center of gravity (with 7 occupants). Not trying to place blame or play armchair crash investigator, but it could be just a perfect storm of bad circumstances. Also, I just can't fathom why if it truly was hit and run, that the Honda did not stop or at least actually be seen driving with damage.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 5:06 p.m.

&quot;They might not have stopped because the whole reason they pulled in front of the SUV in the first place was....&quot;
If they pulled in front of the SUV wouldn't they have rear end damage instead of front end damage?

Billy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:42 p.m.

I wouldn't say that the minivan driver didn't do anything wrong if they didn't contact the SUV.
They might not have stopped because the whole reason they pulled in front of the SUV in the first place was because they never checked their mirrors....and it would then make sense that they continued to NOT check their mirrors.
The person could have NO idea they caused this accident, which is why they kept going. That does NOT make them innocent...not by a long shot. In fact their negligence puts them in a worse position as far as I'm concerned. Their negligence makes them a FAR more dangerous person due to the unpredictable nature of negligence.
At the minimum here the minivan driver needs to be removed from the roadways for the safety of others.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:33 p.m.

In the original story it was stated : &quot;Update at 4:27 p.m.: Police are investigating the incident as a hit and run and are searching for a silver Honda Odyssey with heavy front end damage.&quot;
Now it says: &quot;The crash reconstructionist has not been able to confirm that contact was made between the Odyssey and the Expedition,....&quot;
It makes me wonder about the possibility that contact was never actually made. Maybe maybe, maybe the driver of the mystery Honda never stopped because they never did anything wrong.
Maybe I watch too many cop shows on TV where its never the first suspect who did it.

Kyle Feldscher

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:22 p.m.

Craig- Yes, sorry if that was unclear.

Billy

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:19 p.m.

They probably have one person that said there was contact, so because there is that ONE bit of doubt they need to investigate it.
It should be noted, however, that &quot;eyewitnesses&quot; are often wrong. People are caught up with the idea that an eyewitess' memory is infallible...when it is very much so.
I'm not saying that an eyewitness is lying either....they entirely believe they saw what they saw...the problem is they didn't actually see it, they're just REMEMBERING seeing it.
This is why forensics has become king now. The rate of forensics failing is so ridiculously low it only rears it's head in cases of extreme negligence or malice.
No one's been wrongfully convicted through DNA evidence....but tons of people have been cleared by it.

Craig Lounsbury

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:14 p.m.

Not to kick a dead dog, but more than one witness said there was definitely contact?

Kyle Feldscher

Mon, Jun 25, 2012 : 4:11 p.m.

Craig- When speaking with Trooper Pryzyblo, he said the witness directly behind the Odyssey was adamant there was contact when he spoke specifically about the crash reconstructionist's report. He also spoke in general, saying witnesses reported there was contact. There were multiple witnesses to the accident, but when speaking about the reconstructionist's report, he was speaking specifically about one witnesses report to police.