I picked up a Conn 8H on Ebay. It's really nice but the springs were removed yet no padding was put back in.

I grew up playing the same trombone with springs in it. Now I have an 88H w/o springs.

So, should I put the springs in and learn the difference in the slide positions that the springs will build into one of the instruments. Or just put padding into the 8H and have two trombones with virtually the same positions?

I have the springs so I can put them in. The reason I was a bit worried is that the 8H and 88H are otherwise exactly the same. If i put the springs in, then 1st position (Bb) will be the length of the springs further down the slide, which will offset all the other positions. Without the springs, the two trombones should play identically. Maybe it's not a big deal, but I went through a transition period with my bass trombone, so if I can keep things the same that would be better.

Might be worth a try. I can always have them pulled out in the future. I do remember loving them!

You are thinking about it wrong. Conn slides should have either springs, cork, or felt at the base of the cork barrels. The cork or felt should stop the slide at the same point as the compressed springs will. So.. no change in positions.

The only notes you need the cork bumpers for might be "F" using the F attachment and "Ab". Of course, I would still want felt or cork in there anyway to prevent slide damage when it's closed.

^ Exactly.

Without something in there, you have metal hitting metal when you do bring the slide all the way in - the slide lock lug with hit the cork barrel. And the slide lock won't work properly without spring/cork/felt of the right thickness.

I suppose it depends on what you're used to. On my 88, 1st is against the uncompressed springs. T1 is hard up against them, which makes the F side positions a little sharper. In either case, a note is in tune if it's in tune.

Logged

The definition of a gentleman: Someone who knows how to play the trombone, but doesn't.

Interesting. My original 8H from the early 80's had Bb against the uncompressed springs, then D pulled in full. F was out a little from the uncompressed springs. The 8H I have now, from the early 90's has Bb and D in the same location, so the need to have that fine tuning aid isn't as apparent. Now it seems like the main benefit is to slow the train down as I'm racing into first? I'll give it a try and see what happens....

So, what's the main advantage then of the springs? On my old trombone, it let me set the Bb at the unsprung part of them, then pull in for the D. But with the new trombone, Bb and D are in the same place so there's no need for that adjustment. Is it for the comfort of not ramming the outer slide into the stocks?

It was put in to encourage players to play "out" on the slide. The 88H was designed to be played that way, springs or no. Tuning Ab at the bell puts Bb right at where the springs end, or where they would have ended if they aren't there. You can and probably should still play as if the spring was there even if it isnt.

There's a great video of Lindberg playing his 88H on the Carmen suite where you can see him using extended positions this way. F4 is WAAAY out on the slide.

Tuning the Bb to the compressed spring (ie, all the way closed if there is no spring) is what many teachers have their students do to tune Bb. On an 88H, tuning this way moves all the other positions closer to the mouthpiece. Ab will be out in front of the bell and G will be just past it. It also means that F might be flat in first, even with the F slide completely closed. Many bass trombonists complain about their F attachment being too long, but that's likely due to the fact that they pulled the main tuning slide out a ton to get Bb in tune in a closed first.

Tuning Bb to where the spring ends (or where it would have ended) allows you to tune the F attachment to be in a closed first position (you pull in for the F). In a way, this helps the "regular" notes line up better with the 6 F attachment positions because the "regular" positions are already longer. You pull in to closed for F, the Es line up, and pull out a bit for Eb, etc.

The springs basically were there to keep people from tuning Bb to be in tune with the slide closed -- "we designed it to be this way, dudes"

I was taught to tune Bb just where the slide touches the springs. This way if you need to play F with the valve you have some room to move in to get it in tune. I think since they used the same slide with the 8H they put springs in that too even though you really don't need them on a straight tenor. Same thing for the King 4B and 4BF.

You can't compress the spring enough to get Ab in tune in 1st on an 8H/88H.