I am also applying to many mid tier MD schools and I really want to go to allopathic school but I do like the osteopathic philosophy and in my Personal Statement I talk about how my Social Welfare major and experiences have drawn me to a holistic view of medicine. I have a vary wide range of experiences; all that reflect the multidimensional view of thinking in osteopathic medicine...

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It's great that this is what attracts you to medicine, but holistic/philosophic/multidimensional medicine is what good MDs practice as well. DO marketing states a philosophy that only bad MDs disagree with.

Good reasons to pursue DO include:
- more schools in more locations to choose from
- interest in OMT
- interest in community medicine (vs. academic)
(note that "community medicine" is not the same as "primary care")

I should also mention that I am 19 and I know that usually DO schools are receptive to non-trad applicants that are older but I guess I'm an unconventional young applicant.

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Not that you asked, but if there's any way you'd consider going out and experiencing the world, earning a living and growing independently, for a couple of years before you start medical school, you'll be in better shape to enjoy your medical career.

I decided to take all of your advice and added a microbiology course + lab this semester. That'll give me a year of physics, a year of inorganic, Zoology + lab, Botany + lab, and Microbiology + lab before I take the MCAT next May. I'll have to get a tutor for Organic but there is a retired OB/Gyn in our area (who one my coworkers at the pharmacy was an NP for for like 25 years) who also happens to teach chemistry and is a person I plan on asking to tutor me on the organic. I hope with hardwork I can get past the MCAT organic through this strategy. But we'll see... I know I'll be taking Organic my senior year though.

Yo, cbrons, one of the best pieces of advice I ever heard for Organic was to study at least ten minutes of it every day. It's kind of like a new language: if you keep it constantly fresh in your mind, it's much easier to learn.

Best of luck to you, and condolences on a year of inorganic. Enjoy Micro, I know I did!

Hey guys im relatively new to the site and I wanted to get some imput from the vets on my situation:

MCAT 33M
cGPA: 3.13 sGPA: 3.04
'08 Notre Dame grad

~50 hours local hospital volunteer
~50 hours 1 on 1 work with a child with autism
summer research intern in biopharm.
multiple physician shadows including a DO

I am planning on a broad application cycle including both low/mid range MD programs and DO programs.

Im looking for some input on my DO list and suggestions on other programs that I should consider. I am leaning towards large city schools

Yes:

PCOM
CCOM
PCOM-GA
Nova Southeastern (Father works here)
LECOM-FL

Any comments are welcome
thanks guys

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PCOM is a crap shoot if your OOS, I know some with a 36 MCAT, and a decent gpa who didn't get an interview. They told me the reason why i was rejected, was because they didn't get to me in time... go figure . I would apply now, if you want to be considered for PCOm. I would also add a couple more school like NYCOM, UMDNJ, DMU, LECOM ERIE. You should get in somewhere.

Yo, cbrons, one of the best pieces of advice I ever heard for Organic was to study at least ten minutes of it every day. It's kind of like a new language: if you keep it constantly fresh in your mind, it's much easier to learn.

Best of luck to you, and condolences on a year of inorganic. Enjoy Micro, I know I did!

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thanks for the advice... i appreciate it. I don't expect too much trouble from any of these classes, and I've already begun studying for all three. I know I'll need to limit my work availability next year and stay disciplined .. give myself some time to learn the concepts then I'll be good.

My turn! My turn! I've picked a handful of schools so far, based on my stats and where my family would be willing to move at this point. I'm applying both MD/DO. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

DO stats: 3.2 cum 3.6 sci
MCAT: 32Q

Non-trad who did 58 hrs post-bacc with 4.0 UG GPA before post bac was ~ 2.6

I think you guys would both do well do look at my mdapps (and TexasTri's mdapps), and see how much love MD schools have for such numbers. And DO schools were not exactly falling out of their seats for such stats either.

I set myself up for a whole bunch of despair by expecting schools to look past my GPA, and to be interested in me for my MCAT and my life experience. Brace yourselves.

I posted this in the pre-MD forum, but since I'm also applying to DO schools, I figure I should ask the question here, too.

I'm just curious because I will be getting one, but does anyone here know or saw the content on the committee letters? Does the letter go into specific/detailed information about the applicants like "So and so received a score of 25 on the first MCAT because (insert reason), and improved to 35 because (insert reason)..." or does it contain more generalized statements. Also, how deep into your academic performance does the committee letter touch on? Does it also go into specific information by discussing numbers?

I'm assuming that it gives more generalized statements about why the applicants did so well or did not do so well in certain areas; since the schools will get to see MCAT scores and transcripts anyway, so it isn't so effective to be too specific, correct? I remeber reading somewhere that one of the most popular formats of the committee letter is to make quotes from all of the LORs that the applicants have from professors, doctors, supervisors, etc., as a thrust to drive the letter. Anyone here care to shed some light on this issue? Thanks!

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The pre-med committee letters for my school are very generalized. The committee members vote on each applicant. They each cast one of five votes: "Recomend with enthusiasm", "Recomend with confidence", "Recomend", "Recomend with hesitation", or "Do not recomend." Each letter from "Recomend with enthusiasm" ,for example, will all be identical letters. I don't know about other schools, but it would be a good idea to ask your committee how they do it.

I have noticed that some DO schools have a biochemistry requirement. I plan on applying this summer, but I will not take biochem until Fall of 08. Will schools wait until I have taken the class to review my application? Do you think this will hurt my chances? Any thoughts will be much appreciated.

Hey guys I want your honest opinion. I applying to both the DO & MD schools for the 09 entering class but I have 3 of D's on my transcript in genetics, calcius, and o-chem I. I already graduated a few years ago and I never retook the courses. What are my chances? I have a overall 3.36 GPA & 3.00 science and I'm getting my MCAT scores in 2 weeks. thanks again.

Hey guys I want your honest opinion. I applying to both the DO & MD schools for the 09 entering class but I have 3 of D's on my transcript in genetics, calcius, and o-chem I. I already graduated a few years ago and I never retook the courses. What are my chances? I have a overall 3.36 GPA & 3.00 science and I'm getting my MCAT scores in 2 weeks. thanks again.

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You need to have a minimum of a C for your orgo class to count towards your pre-reqs, so you will have to retake that class. Perhaps you can take a summer course? I would also retake your genetics class if possible. Calculus, for your DO app, I wouldn't cry yourself to sleep over it since it is not required for schools or counted in your BCP (bio, chem, physics) GPA, but it will with your MD app since it counts those classes and math. You def need to retake your orgo tho, no questions asked, so I would get moving on that one. It will also help your GPA, esp since DO apps factor your best grade (well, your most recent, which should be your best -- I believe this is how it works, but I honestly don't remember, I just know the best grade was taken for a couple retakes I had, someone else who applied more recently can fill in this detail).

I second the above poster. You'll have to retake orgo (UNECOM offers an online course if you're interested) in order to matriculate anywhere. The MCAT score will paint a more complete picture, but you're GPA's weak for allopathic and within range for Osteopathic schools. Good luck!

I think you guys would both do well do look at my mdapps (and TexasTri's mdapps), and see how much love MD schools have for such numbers. And DO schools were not exactly falling out of their seats for such stats either.

I set myself up for a whole bunch of despair by expecting schools to look past my GPA, and to be interested in me for my MCAT and my life experience. Brace yourselves.

Best of luck to you.

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Thanks! I have pretty much braced myself for the worst. I expect pretty much nothing from MD schools other than "Thanks for the secondary fee, but no."

I'm hoping for more from DO - especially RVU since it is 30 minutes from my house. I am skeptical about it, for obvious reasons so any other input would be great.

I have a family to think of as well, so what I would really like is a solid program which I can basically be assured (if that's possible) that I can do my rotations reasonably close without having to move them again.

Eagle Scout150 hours volunteering @ Brigham and Women's BostonCountless Hours of Volunteer work for Breast Cancer SocietiesMission Hill Little League Coach x2 SummersShadowed DO and MD, from Family practice too Cardiac Surgery. VP of Fraternity x2 yearsStudent GovernmentPresident of the Medical Lab Science Club x2 years.Currently work in Hematology Lab at Brigham and Womens Hospital in Boston, MA.Co-Op for Depuy Mitek doing R&D for orthopedic surgery instruments.Co-Op at Bayer Diagnostics as a Technical Consultant for laboratory instruments. Worked for Laboratory Corp. of America as an Accessioner.ASCP certified in Medical Technology.

Taking the MCAT in the fall and applying early next cycle. Obviously looking to get 30+!

I have noticed that some DO schools have a biochemistry requirement. I plan on applying this summer, but I will not take biochem until Fall of 08. Will schools wait until I have taken the class to review my application? Do you think this will hurt my chances? Any thoughts will be much appreciated.

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I have the same problem (with genetics) and was told they will review me whenever my application is complete but I must complete the course before I begin their program (if I am accepted )

I moved with my parents to the U.S. when I was 16 1/2 (In 2002) after my high school graduation. Both my parents are M.D.s so I really got plenty of exposure to the Medical field.
I graduated with Honors in Dec 2007 with a B.S. degree in Biological science .. 3.65 Overall (cum lada) & 3.52 M&S ...
I graduated with Honors for taking 3 semesters of Honors Research course (I,II,III).. The research was successful and I published my thesis before graduation ..
In Research-I- I learned about the research (DNA extractions, PCR, Gel Electrophoresis, Vector Cloning, and sequencing)..
In Research -II & III- I mentored 2 students on how to carry on these techniques and I kept going forward with the research.

I volunteered in Univ. of Virginia Health System for about 135 hours in the children's health museum, and another 125 hours in the Pediatric E.R. at Univ. of Mississippi Medical Center.

Leadership positions: Service Chair, and Web Master for PTK. G.O.Y.A Youth President at my church, and as I mentioned earlier Honors Research Mentor for 2 semester.

Other Activities like: Alter Boy at Church, Intermural Soccer, and International Club.

I also did the 35 hours shadowing program at UMC... Also, I will be shadowing two DO surgeons at Ceders Sinai Hospital in Los Angles for the Month of June.

I have many awards of Merits and honors from UVA, my Church, and Mississippi College..

I also did a Neuroscience Internship at UMC in 2005.

Now my Problem is the MCAT VERBAL SECTION ... I am getting 4s !!!! I got 5s and 6s!! before in some PR practice tests ... but somehow I have been only getting 4s on the AAMC tests ... my MCAT is Soon!!

I am worried I wouldn't do well in my verbal .. I am getting between 8-10 in the other 2 sections ..

Worst case: I get 8,8,4 ... thats a freakin 20 ... I know its really bad ... but I really wanna be a Doctor and I know the Verbal section score is a measure of my ability to comprehend Medical passages!!! I read the Biological section much faster and much better compared to verbal...why do i want DO not an MD? because I wanna learn about the OMM and after doing research I really like the DO approach a little more than the MD.. (I was accepted in a 7 year program Medical school after high school overseas, but I didn't wanna be a FMG when I come back here)

Would any DO school accept me with such a score? its obvious that English is not my 1st language and thats why I am not doing well in Verbal...

What are my chances for this Cycle???? Any applicants that used to do really really bad in Verbal and somehow found a way to improve it ???? if so HOW !!!!!!!!

FYI - a mod will move/merge this thread to the official "What are my chances" thread.

I'd recommend getting the EK 101 Passages in VR and doing it every day for some time. I'd also do as many practice verbal passages from various sources (including AAMC) as possible until the day of the test. Also, try to read actively and understand the "tone" of the passage. I was scoring 8-9s and finally got over 10 with that approach.

Keep a decent pace, too. I also found that instead of mowing through on test day, be selective of the passages(warning: not everyone feels comfortable with this method). I flipped through the pages quickly at the start of verbal (when it was paper) and chose the hefty passages with the most questions (there are always 2-3 beasts) for maximum points. I tackled those "beast passages" first while I was energized and then completed the remainder of the section at a decent pace. IMO, you should be hitting 8s in all sections with your record to be adequately competitive for DO medical schools. Just my .02

You should also get examkrackers verbal book along with the passages suggested above. I would think that you can get your VR at least in the 7 or 8 range with some studying. Do well in the BS and PS sections(above 10's) to make up for a low verbal score. Ive met many many doctors who can barely speak english and seem to be doing fine in medical practice. Im sure you have better verbal reasoning skills than them. You'll be alright.

If you're a p**sy, go in order. Like I said, not everyone can do it - and not everyone can break 12.

Seriously, if you can knock out the meaty passages that have a greater bulk of questions first, you'll be less likely to lose more points at the end due to fatigue. I don't care how much you practice, you're gonna be worn at the end, hence more likely to make mistakes.

I don't know, makes sense to me but to each his own. Selecting passages was part of my strategy that worked. Not for everyone and you might fair just fine motoring straight through, in order worked for me sometimes, too.

wait for new MCAT scores before applying?
so i have a situation which i dont think addressed the other threads with similar topics:
I retook the MCAT this May 27th and expect to see results around June 27th.
My last MCAT score was a 22-R.
I have a feeling that if I apply right now and they see that MCAT score, then they might reject me right away. So is it better to wait until my MCAT scores are released before I finalize my application?
Or, am I better off submitting ASAP and hope they dont reject me too quickly?

Also if you submit everything now, they'll probably have your new scores in by the time they get around to looking at your **** anyway.

To elaborate: as soon as you get your score report online, print out their "official copy" and fax it to each school. Then mail a copy to each school as well. Also, have it electronically submitted to AACOMAS, AMCAS, etc.

as soon as you get your score report online, print out their "official copy" and fax it to each school. Then mail a copy to each school as well. Also, have it electronically submitted to AACOMAS, AMCAS, etc.

I have the same problem (with genetics) and was told they will review me whenever my application is complete but I must complete the course before I begin their program (if I am accepted )

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Thanks for the response. I called DMU and UNECOM today and they both said that a lot of people send in their applications before they have genetics or biochem completed. Also, they both said that this will not hurt my chances.

So is it better to wait until my MCAT scores are released before I finalize my application? Or, am I better off submitting ASAP and hope they dont reject me too quickly?

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I agree with TT, assuming your practice tests were where you want them. If you have any doubt that you improved, then in my mind it's worth waiting to make sure you're set. I'd vote for applying later with a 27, vs. applying early with another 22.

my practice tests were fairly consistent. i listed them on my MDapps.
I heard the idea is that your actual MCAT is +-2 pts from highest score? I felt confident on PS and VR so that should work in my favor. Not as confident on the BS though, but will likely secure a 9 without much trouble.
anyhow, I know i should get things in soon...if anything, i need to have all my LORs and transcripts in.

Your application is so strong everywhere else that I don't think you'll need a great mcat. Worst case is that you'll be put on hold until they get your new scores in. You won't be rejected anywhere immediately.

As for those schools with cutoffs, e-mail them and tell them to hold their horses until your new scores are in, just to be safe, but I think everyone will at least wait until the scores are in.

Just FYI - Some schools will make you choose whether or not your file sits on hold or gets reviewed, it can become a gamble. I had some MCAT scores pending but had older scores I'd considered using in order to get my app in very early. DMU told me my file would only be reviewed "one time" so I was suddenly in a predicament, submit early with an advantage or be placed in limbo-land until my new scores were released. It was annoying to say the least.

my practice tests were fairly consistent. i listed them on my MDapps.
I heard the idea is that your actual MCAT is +-2 pts from highest score? I felt confident on PS and VR so that should work in my favor. Not as confident on the BS though, but will likely secure a 9 without much trouble.
anyhow, I know i should get things in soon...if anything, i need to have all my LORs and transcripts in.

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i would apply, its gonna take aacomas a while to receive your transcripts, verify you, etc. When do your done with everything your new mcat score will come. If you indicated on your file that you just took the mcat, the schools will see that and wait. just faxed it over to the schools, and send it to accomas. I am also sure that no school will make a decision on you in a week. schools are not even done with 2007-2008 cycle yet with all the wait lists, etc.

overall: 3.23
sci 2.88 (chem killed me)
nonsci 3.7
will take mcat soon, confident that i will get 30+
good LORs

EC=DO and MD shadow, peer tutor, secretary of med club 2 semesters, member few other clubs, worked as teaching assnt at childrens center, volubteer at hospital, worked at docs office...wil be doing reseach next semester

the schools i was looking at are: nycom, tourocom ny, unecom, pcom, wvsom,..lecom, 2 schools in the carribean

does acomas/med schools look at your grades up to the semster that u are applying or do they update to take into account the following semester as well?
thx for ur help in advance...

Took the MCAT last July, got a 24 Retaking it this July, and I've been doing consistently better on practice tests, so I hope I can get at least a 28-29.
Science: 3.4ish
Overall: 3.65ish
Tons and tons of extracurriculars (President of Chemistry Club, President of Honors Club for 2 years, Resident Assistant, Teaching Assistant, Mentor for Freshman Pre-Med Students, etc etc)
Good letters of recommendation (Still trying to work on getting a DO Rec Letter)
Lots of medical shadowing

What schools do you think I am competitive at?

Also, I'm new to the DO process. Should I send my application in before I retake? Or wait til August when I get my scores back?

overall: 3.23
sci 2.88 (chem killed me)
nonsci 3.7
will take mcat soon, confident that i will get 30+
good LORs

EC=DO and MD shadow, peer tutor, secretary of med club 2 semesters, member few other clubs, worked as teaching assnt at childrens center, volubteer at hospital, worked at docs office...wil be doing reseach next semester

the schools i was looking at are: nycom, tourocom ny, unecom, pcom, wvsom,..lecom, 2 schools in the carribean

does acomas/med schools look at your grades up to the semster that u are applying or do they update to take into account the following semester as well?
thx for ur help in advance...

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the science gpa may get you rejected automatically by pre screening from some schools. I would try to take chem over if anything. I would also check for schools with a 3.0 science gpa by calling them or online. A lot also depends on your mcat

Took the MCAT last July, got a 24 Retaking it this July, and I've been doing consistently better on practice tests, so I hope I can get at least a 28-29.
Science: 3.4ish
Overall: 3.65ish
Tons and tons of extracurriculars (President of Chemistry Club, President of Honors Club for 2 years, Resident Assistant, Teaching Assistant, Mentor for Freshman Pre-Med Students, etc etc)
Good letters of recommendation (Still trying to work on getting a DO Rec Letter)
Lots of medical shadowing

What schools do you think I am competitive at?

Also, I'm new to the DO process. Should I send my application in before I retake? Or wait til August when I get my scores back?

Thanks for all your help!

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you have a shot to get in somewhere, such as your state school. but if you feel like you can do better, i would retake it. It is great having choices between schools. I would not wait till august. I would apply by june, so by august everything is complete when your scores come in.

That science GPA is brutal. I am pretty sure that a lot of schools are going to have a big problem with it. Can you re-take some stuff to get it up a little?

Everything else is good.

If you're not re-taking, you're going to have to apply to a lot of places.

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Umm, lets just say I was a Bio Major and I didn't know what I was doing at the time so I got C's in everything.... I already graduated a few years ago, and can't retake classes at my original school (not sure if thats an issue with replacing grades). I'm also working full time so it would not be very efficient for me to retake classes and wait another year to apply. Since the max I can fit in would be 4 classes in a year, and I'd really like to get a start on my medical career.

Wait so I guess I shouldn't bother retaking the MCAT with my 27N and just try to apply a lot of places early and be complete?

My range on MCAT practice exams was 27-30 (got a 8PS/9VR/10BS in case you missed my original thread, 3.0cum,2.6sci,3.4nonsci)

does a good mcat score kind of compensate on some level for a bad sci gpa or should i wait out the fall semester ( i am taking all sciences) and then apply with a better sci gpa....im just afraid that spots would fill up and it would get tighter...thx again

does a good mcat score kind of compensate on some level for a bad sci gpa or should i wait out the fall semester ( i am taking all sciences) and then apply with a better sci gpa....im just afraid that spots would fill up and it would get tighter...thx again

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I would not wait!!! If you apply in december or january, you severely hindering your self. I would aim for the best mcat score possible, call up the school and apply to most schools that dont have 3.0 science gpa cutoff.

I would not wait!!! If you apply in december or january, you severely hindering your self. I would aim for the best mcat score possible, call up the school and apply to most schools that dont have 3.0 science gpa cutoff.

Umm, lets just say I was a Bio Major and I didn't know what I was doing at the time so I got C's in everything.... I already graduated a few years ago, and can't retake classes at my original school (not sure if thats an issue with replacing grades). I'm also working full time so it would not be very efficient for me to retake classes and wait another year to apply. Since the max I can fit in would be 4 classes in a year, and I'd really like to get a start on my MD career.

Wait so I guess I shouldn't bother retaking the MCAT with my 27N and just try to apply a lot of places early and be complete?

My range on MCAT practice exams was 27-30 (got a 8PS/9VR/10BS in case you missed my original thread, 3.0cum,2.6sci,3.4nonsci)

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The 2.6 BCP GPA is going to hurt the number of schools you're able to apply to. I know some schools have a minimum science GPA of 2.75 or thereabouts. I would do research on every school before you apply so that you make sure you meet the minimum requirements. There's no need in spending tons of money to apply to schools that you can be guaranteed to not get a secondary from.

yea i applied late around january because of the jan mcat, and would not recommend it to anyone. I would try to retake some course over the summer. you can always resend to transcripts and aacomas will update your file.

hey guys
i have a technical question and no one seems to be able to figure this out
at my school we have two semesters and our physics including a lab is a full year course. at my school all that is worth one credit, but i dunno how to convert that to aacomas stuff i got it wrong last year and they sent my application back to me so i could check it, real annoying
what would u guys say, how many hours is that?

hey guys
i have a technical question and no one seems to be able to figure this out
at my school we have two semesters and our physics including a lab is a full year course. at my school all that is worth one credit, but i dunno how to convert that to aacomas stuff i got it wrong last year and they sent my application back to me so i could check it, real annoying
what would u guys say, how many hours is that?

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If your lab is separate from the course, they are considered 2 courses and you have to put the lab and the grade (put one credit etc) and same thing with the course. If it is lab + course then you put the grade in you got in the whole course and there is a section underneath that you can scroll to that says course and lab