Stone Meadow:Actually, now it turns out that the FBI watched the elder brother for years (Source) as he slowly radicalized himself into a jihadist. Visiting Russia (and likely Chechens there); hanging on forums with them, and spending hours on Skype with them.

Not surprised... he doesn't fit in here, he has the language etc to have more life on the Russian internet, goes there, finds forums of interest, gets radicalized... then pulls in l'il bro.

All possible to happen right from the US living room, without needing either of them to be actual parts of any bigger organization. They can just DIY in solidarity.

Probably the vast majority of similar people never do anything, but... what can I say, identity issues can be a biatch.

jonathan_L:I've been looking at Chinese papers all week via thepaperboy.com and I've seen zero photos of Lu Lingzi in them. The pages tend to be pretty text-heavy, and I don't read characters as well as I'd like, but you'd think that if the papers (and the government they're answerable to) actually did give two shiats about her, you'd see a photo or two.

Huaren.us, the big message board for Chinese in North America, is kind of torn on their theories. Either she has a family member high enough up in the CCP to ensure the media leaves them alone or the CCP has decided nothing good can come of the story and ordered it handled in a non sensational fashion (and now that Sichuan just has an earthquake, they can totally drop it in favor of most glorious and heroic response to the earthquake).

Also lots of comments on how open and transparent the American government has been about this compared to how the Chinese government buries its disasters. Could be the CCP thinks they'll just get burned if they make this a big story. Plus compared to Chinese cops and how inefficient they normally are, Boston PD looks like freaking SOCOM.

/flying to Chengdu tomorrow for business//well likely sitting at Shanghai Pudong tomorrow and reading the list of cancelled flights/oh well, Nanjing Road in Shanghai is nice, I could go for some Shanghai Street food

In 9 months Boston is going to have a baby boom from all the people that stayed home from work today and got tired of the constant coverage of the bombers and decided to do something else for a while. And of course all of the after partying!

Fissile:Shyla: Maximer: So... on an aside... My wife is Russian and she is royally pissed that the media is saying the Chechens are Russians. Whether you agree or not, the Russian people want nothing to do with these people (the bombers) or the Chechens in general.

Except when Chechnya broke apart from Russia and Russia re-invaded them to take control of them. Sounds like *someone* in Russia wants a part of them.============

There's nothing much of value in Chechnya. The entire place is an ass-backward clusterfark. The Russians refer to the Chechens, and most everyone else in the Caucasuses, as "black asses". The Russians don't want to lose any territory, even if it is worthless, because it sets a bad example, and there are places near Chechnya that have oil.........lots of it. They don;t want anyone else to get any ideas.

Millions of Russians died protecting that oil from the Germans. They aren't giving it up for shiat.

GAT_00:Gyrfalcon: Long answer: Yes, because Miranda is only to ADVISE you of your rights. Your rights are guaranteed in the constitution. The Miranda warning is only given because (based on the case) some people are unaware of their rights, or not aware they have them, or not given the option to exercise them--but you always have them, because the 5th and 6th Amendment are always in play. If this kid wakes up from surgery and they start talking to him and he says "STFU, go away, I want a lawyer," then even if they haven't read his rights, they have to STFU and go away. They don't get to say "Ha ha! You don't have any rights yet because we didn't read them to you!"

I like how you went to "you have rights, and Miranda is there to make sure you know them" to "that's why nobody has to tell you your rights with Miranda!"

Miranda is about interrogation, not just arrest. The point of Miranda is that "you have rights concerning custodial interrogation, and Miranda is there to make sure you know them." So, it is entirely reasonable to wait to administer Miranda warnings until the guy is going to be interrogated. Here, it seems like the first priority is to get the guy treated and stabilized - once that happens, then the guy will be interrogated, and before he is, he will be "Mirandized."

Gyrfalcon:GAT_00: Gyrfalcon: GAT_00: Gyrfalcon: Long answer: Yes, because Miranda is only to ADVISE you of your rights. Your rights are guaranteed in the constitution. The Miranda warning is only given because (based on the case) some people are unaware of their rights, or not aware they have them, or not given the option to exercise them--but you always have them, because the 5th and 6th Amendment are always in play. If this kid wakes up from surgery and they start talking to him and he says "STFU, go away, I want a lawyer," then even if they haven't read his rights, they have to STFU and go away. They don't get to say "Ha ha! You don't have any rights yet because we didn't read them to you!"

I like how you went to "you have rights, and Miranda is there to make sure you know them" to "that's why nobody has to tell you your rights with Miranda!"

Don't you have to go tell the Joint Chiefs of Staff how to run a war or something? Or direct cleanup operations in West, TX? We don't need you here.

You're being a douchebag, why?

Your logic is inconsistent. Just because you have rights, does not mean you are necessarily aware of them. That's why you get read them, to make SURE you know you have them.

To answer your juvenile question, nobody has to GIVE you your rights, because rights cannot be given. They exist. Miranda rights are read to make sure you "know" them, but if your rights are not "read" to you does not mean that you don't have them. Police cannot refuse to give you a lawyer, or stop questioning you when you demand, because they haven't read you your rights.

Now, do you understand the distinction I am making here, which is that regardless of whether our suspect has had his Miranda rights read or not, he still has the right to terminate questioning if he so chooses? The reason they are opting not to read him his rights now is so that they can talk to him and hopefully get some actionable intel out of him, with the full knowledge it won't be usable in court--but tha ...

Shutting down boston and all the future US cities to come. It's a precedent now and will continue in the future whether you believe it or not.

It was the local cops that SHUT DOWN ANYTHING and local authority shutting down parts, if not all of a town, is nothing new, happens quite often in winter after a major snow storm, or in other areas where other natural and sometime man-made disasters happen.

Hell just a few weeks ago they shut down Duluth because of a snow storm, told everybody to stay indoors and told outsiders to stay out. So no precedent was set today.

Wasn't even the Boston. It was Watertown that shut down. Boston was open, except for the 15 block crime scene. It was dead because the MBTA coordinated with state officials and shut down to limit the suspects options to leave Watertown.

Boston? Anyone who wanted to could drive in. Some people still went to work, but most said "fark it 3 day weekend" and watching this interesting thing on TV.

Charlestown, North End, Southie, Dot, Roxie? All bumping today and BAU. Same with Someville and Medford. Places with lots of offices were dead, cause everyone took the day off, not because they were locked inside.

Here's a hint folks, the media probably isn't reporting right on the places they're not. They can barley get it right on the places they in and focused on!

DamnYankees: Exactly - way more death and destruction there. But we dont care as much since there isn't an enemy to label and worry about.

Via Infinito: Do you really not get the difference? People in Texas don't need to do a city-wide manhunt to stop marauding fertilizer plants from exploding.

The initial explosion was national news but it's really a local story at this point. There's about a 99% chance this was an industrial accident. It really only affects the people nearby and their loved ones. Now if it does turn out that it was a terrorist attack, it's national news again.

I'm in Texas and it's still a major story here and we care very much. People are giving blood and raising money and donating supplies.

The Marathon bombing is a national story. It's a premier sporting event that draws people from around the country and all over the world. This was a terrorist attack on U.S. soil, an attack on the entire U.S. and it affects everyone in the country.

All true, but if several hundred children had been killed in that school a few hundred feet away from the plant we'd be hearing a lot more about the West explosion, predictable accident or not. It's all about what they can sensationalize.

If this Boston incident wasn't going on. The West explosion would've been the only thing the media talked about all week.

This was the one week where they weren't the lead story.

Did you see the story of the man who ran in the Boston marathon, crossed the finish line as the bombs went off? His wife was next to a person who lost her leg. They go home to Texas, and he's driving home from work and he survives (by miles I think) the Texas explosion? That guy needs to buy all the lottery tickets this week.

Just like all those people in Gitmo and our much larger political prison in Afghanistan got?

I wonder if there's a difference. Maybe you can help me out. What's different between the cases I listed and people in Gitmo? Do we flip a coin to decide if they get US civilian courts or Gitmo or is there some different mechanism at work?

OOH I know!!!! *raises hand* PICK ME!!!!

I'm going to go with, this guy is more likely to actually be guilty than everyone in Gitmo.

dr_blasto: t is reasonable to expect they wouldn't question or Mirandize him before providing medical treatment and stabilizing him. In fact, that should be required, shouldn't it?

The bullshiat about questioning him about stuff with Mirandizing him, that's the bad thing. My worry: he still has rights to not incriminate himself no matter what the PATRIOT act says, it is superseded by the consitution, but is it honored? Can he end his interview whenever he wants?

Given that Boston cops managed to avoid killing any of the who knows how many innocent people they arrested in the last 24 hours, there is a small chance that actual justice will prevail, he will be read his rights, get a real, fair trial, and if found guilty spend his life in jail, the way it should happen.

It's a very small chance. Just look at all the bloodthirsty savages in here for example.

Maybe some of them mean it, maybe some are just emotional. For fun, look at the handles that are all about straining the dude up straight away or who are saying fark his 5th amendment rights. How many of them are the 2A gun rights people that don't want to have to undergo background checks to exercise their rights?

scottydoesntknow:Lionel Mandrake: Olfin Bedwere: Lionel Mandrake: Mad_Radhu: /Seriously, though, I'm cool with the thought of him spending the next 80 years full of regret and sadness. unable to even kill himself to end his sad life. All he has to look forward to is his body slowly decaying away until he dies alone and unloved, haunted by the thoughts of the life he could have had.

That's always struck me as odd...pro-death penalty opponents (many) seem to think that life in jail is somehow less of a punishment than execution...

Which would you prefer, people? And if it's death you prefer, you'll still be able to achieve that goal with a life sentence.

Life in prison is not a pleasant alternative.

Exactly my point. Die now?, or spend years or decades in a tiny cage and then die?

Well most people say they don't want to spend the tax dollars keeping them alive (next someone will post a graphic showing it costs more to execute, that's not my point). I'd like to see him rot in prison, too. No voice to the outside, no contact. Just having to constantly watch his back because everyone at the Supermax will know what he did.

Supermax is growing more muslim/islamic every day! Look at the prisoners incarcerated there. Just by being alive they are a voice to the misguided outside the prison walls.Better to glean as much information from the terrorists and then execute .

I_C_Weener:Did you see the story of the man who ran in the Boston marathon, crossed the finish line as the bombs went off? His wife was next to a person who lost her leg. They go home to Texas, and he's driving home from work and he survives (by miles I think) the Texas explosion? That guy needs to buy all the lottery tickets this week.

No, we need to attach a GPS tag to that guy and release smart phone app. I want to ensure I'm never in the same state he is.

Mrtraveler01:If this Boston incident wasn't going on. The West explosion would've been the only thing the media talked about all week.

This was the one week where they weren't the lead story.

Hell, if the bombing hadn't happened at the marathon, we'd probably have been hearing tons of glurge about how the marathon was dedicated to the Newtown victims, mile 26 for 26 victims, on endless endless endless repeat, until the fertilizer plant went up and only THEN that would have been the main story.

GAT_00:theknuckler_33: I can NOT believe you are forcing me to agree with goofysavior. Dude... This was handled just about as well as could have possibly been expected. Seriously, what exactly was badly handled?

First, a random person was held on the ground for 15 minutes, allowing this guy to escape in the first place because they let their net collapse. Then, after running in circles all night, they lost him, so they decided to more or less declare martial law in Boston. Then, they proceeded to execute warrantless searches of Watertown, which completely failed to find the guy that was 5 miles away from where he was lost and hiding in a boat the entire time, and was found by said boat's owner. Not one single thing the police did from the time he went to ground until the time he was found by the boat's owner was worth anything.

The only positive in all of this is the BPD didn't kill any random people.

Running in circles, huh? More or less? Warrantless searches? You know people did not submit to them? You know there were no warrants? You know he was in that boat since... what? Early AM on Friday?

DamnYankees:It's also worth pointing out that the way they ended up finding this guy was because they lifted the stupid lockdown, and when a guy then finally left his house he noticed blood on his boat.

This. The terrorists won. They shut down an entire city, costing (likely hundreds of) millions of dollars. Tey terrorized millions of people and disrupted their daily lives during the hunt. And the funny part is all the feds and police wouldn't have caught them if they hadn't been stupid and hightailed it the fark out of there before anyone knew who they were. But nope, they were stupid and killed a MIT cop and got into a shoot out. Had they drive a few hundred miles to NYC, taken a jet out of the US, they'd be in the clear.

GAT_00:theknuckler_33: I can NOT believe you are forcing me to agree with goofysavior. Dude... This was handled just about as well as could have possibly been expected. Seriously, what exactly was badly handled?

First, a random person was held on the ground for 15 minutes, allowing this guy to escape in the first place because they let their net collapse. Then, after running in circles all night, they lost him, so they decided to more or less declare martial law in Boston. Then, they proceeded to execute warrantless searches of Watertown, which completely failed to find the guy that was 5 miles away from where he was lost and hiding in a boat the entire time, and was found by said boat's owner. Not one single thing the police did from the time he went to ground until the time he was found by the boat's owner was worth anything.

The only positive in all of this is the BPD didn't kill any random people.

They wanted him contained to the area. Looks to me they were successful.

Mad_Radhu:/Seriously, though, I'm cool with the thought of him spending the next 80 years full of regret and sadness. unable to even kill himself to end his sad life. All he has to look forward to is his body slowly decaying away until he dies alone and unloved, haunted by the thoughts of the life he could have had.

The picking and chosing among the rights granted under the Bill of Rights is tautamont of the picking and chosing among rules of the bible. People need to give it a damn rest. Bad people do bad shiat. Enough with the politics.

dbirchall:A couple astrophysicist friends (one of them a long-time friend) who work at Hahvahd live in Watertown, within 2 miles of the boat. They actually got back into town from a conference right around the time of the bombings, and geez are we all glad to see them safe at the end of this.

Stone Meadow said in the last thread, "This is the new face of radical Islam...pretend to be well-integrated citizens while you plot to blow up shiat." I dunno about anyone else, but I thought plotting to blow up shiat was an ingrained part of American culture since time immemorial, so that alone would tend to demonstrate you've integrated well. (tl;dr: are you a radical Islamist, a redneck, or a patriot? hard to tell)

I love to blow shiat up, but I take care to make sure there's nobody standing near said shiat...

DamnYankees:To repeat, Obama saying terrorists failed because Boston refused to be intimidated and we refused to be terrorized.

Give me a farking break. We cowered, just like we do at the mere thought of all terrorism. 2 kids set of a couple bombs and we competely shut down a major city, divert the national attention, deploy insane amounts of resources and top it all off by not Mirandizing the guy.

I'm honestly sickened right now and the 'celebrating' all this crap.

I wish I had more confidence, but we're knowingly letting innocent people starve to death in Gitmo and we not only don't help them, but a majority of AMericans probably are happy to see them die even though the US government has officially proclaimed them innocent.

Label someone a terrorist in this country and I have zero confidence in our rule of law.

Really? Right now? I get the Gitmo angle and all but this guy is guilty as all Hades and IS a terrorist. The evidence, from the authorities and otherwise, is overwhelming. I distrust the justice system as much as any sane person but this is a notch on their headboard.

itazurakko:Mrtraveler01: If this Boston incident wasn't going on. The West explosion would've been the only thing the media talked about all week.

This was the one week where they weren't the lead story.

Hell, if the bombing hadn't happened at the marathon, we'd probably have been hearing tons of glurge about how the marathon was dedicated to the Newtown victims, mile 26 for 26 victims, on endless endless endless repeat, until the fertilizer plant went up and only THEN that would have been the main story.

So, you're saying these kids are patsies for the NRA who blew up the marathon to distract from the gun regulation vote?Plausible.

itazurakko:Mrtraveler01: If this Boston incident wasn't going on. The West explosion would've been the only thing the media talked about all week.

This was the one week where they weren't the lead story.

Hell, if the bombing hadn't happened at the marathon, we'd probably have been hearing tons of glurge about how the marathon was dedicated to the Newtown victims, mile 26 for 26 victims, on endless endless endless repeat, until the fertilizer plant went up and only THEN that would have been the main story.

I didn't even know the Marathon was going on until the bombing. So I would've been surprised if it was covered at all if this didn't happen.

It's just something we don't pay attention to much here in the Midwest outside of finding out which Kenyan won it.

...as I was just mentioning when the last thread got kiboshed, considering the media's batting average this week I'm hardly surprised they'd cite it as they did. And, if it's the AG's spouting that crap, I'm genuinely disappointed -- but hardly surprised -- in them they'd continue this Bush-era bullshiat.

The kid is a naturalized citizen. He has rights, deserves his day in court and so does Boston and the rest of the country. We're not frickin' Syria.

After the Madrid bombings in Spain, they caught the criminals gave them an open trial in a real court of law and found them guilty.

After the London bombings, they caught the criminals, gave them a public trial in a real court of law and found them guilty.

After the Mumbai bombings in India, they caught the criminals, gave them a public trial in a real court of law and found them guilty.

How about we not be a bunch of pussies this time, America?

So are you suggesting a stoning in front of the Old State House?

-----------------

I suggesting we turn him over to Putin's goons. I'd pay to see the look on his face as he's dragged on to the Aeroflot plane. Bye-bye, and don't forget to write.

Considering the number of American citizens' lives he has affected there are probably a whole bunch of folks who would like to see him face justice here in the good ol' US of A. I'm glad they got him alive and I hope he spills his guts about who, what, where, why, and when before he gets convicted and sentenced. If a federal jury sentences him to death and he sits on death row in solitary confinement with no privileges for 20+ years before his appeals are exhausted, so much the better.

Let him lose in federal PMTIA prison for a year or two first, on a deal with the inmates that no one who makes him his biatch kills him.

If I may put out a possible theory to motive, I don't think White hat's heart was really in this. This seemed to be all his brother's plan. Look at how they dressed on monday, Black Hat, while suspicious, was almost impossible to get an ID on. White hat? He didn't try to hide himself at all. Friends and schoolmates of White hat all say he was a great kid and I have to say, I saw his twitter feed and russian facebook page and I really didn't see anything outright damning on there. The only thing political I saw was video put out by Syrian rebels saying that the secular Assad was attacking them because of faith. Nothing else he posted was religious in nature.

His brother had motive to do something rash. He wasn't liked in America (or at least had no friends), he couldn't understand Americans, he had dislike for our ways of money, sex and material possessions (his brother however, said his goal was to have a career and money), and he was snubbed a chance to box in the Olympics for the US.

That snubbing probably is what set him off. We've all talked about symbolism of this attack, why someone would hit a marathon of all things. The bombs were placed at the finish line, of an event that takes a great deal of perseverance, strength and endurance to accomplish. It is by no means an easy task. When you cross that finish line, you do something truly noteworthy. So why not destroy those dreams like his dreams were destroyed?

From there, he convinces his little brother (who probably looked up to him) about how the US, their adoptive country of which they held no ill will towards, snubbed this three time golden glove winner's chance for an Olympic gold and to prove his dedication to his country and/or homeland (he had hoped to play for either the US or Chechnya).

Black hat takes them on a chase, and massive gun battle, of which he goes down. Now White Hat is scared and lost. His only motivation for doing this is dead, he has no direction, he's probably injured, covered in the blood of both him and his brother, and now he's got every cop in the state and many federal agents, hunting his ass through a borough of Boston. Dude gets away from that first encounter and hides. At somepoint, he decides this isn't worth fighting over and eventually gives up.

But this is just my theory as to why the bombing happened and who was really responsible. I've heard nothing damning about the White Hat to prove he was behind this. His actions on Monday are not at all excusable, but if we're gonna treat him fairly in the court of law, I don't think he'll be shown as the mastermind of the plot.

That said, fark you ABC for the crap you were saying about his russian facebook account. NPR looked at the same thing and found nothing at all conclusive that showed motive, be it politics or religion. You? You took the same exact page, declared that there was all this shiat about politics and religion and how he's been on islamic fundamentalist sites and everything and the only example you provide that he went there or showed interest in anything remotely related was the goddamn video by Syrian rebels. That's it.

If you're gonna call yourselves journalists and report the news as fact, then it should be made up of facts, not conjecture, not opinion. Those are not news. Making wild accusations and then trying to prove it with only one piece of evidence is not proof. You have ethics and integrity to uphold and here you are bashing a guy by making him to be worse than he is. It's like saying that Hitler was evil and he palled around with the Devil on weekends. You won't show proof, but it's there, we just have to trust you. You want to blow this out of proportion, that's fine. But I'm getting my news from NPR and not believing the crap you tell me. You had your chance to be better than FOX and you blew that out of the water.

Fark you ABC and Fark you Diane Sawyer.

He did something horrible and inexcusable but you shouldn't have to make shiat up to make him look bad, his own actions did that.

/yes yes, I know. I'm a terrorist sympathizer//I also believe that you should get a fair trial in the court of public opinion too///He's damned anyway, why kick him in the balls with total bullshiat.////I hope he's recovering right next to his victims, so they can sit there and tell him all the shiat that he caused them

GAT_00:An entire city's police force failed to find a guy hiding in a boat 5 miles away from where they lost him the first time, and that's after taking away the rights of the entire city of Boston. It's amazing how badly this was handled.

Hi. Bostonite here. Used to live in Watertown. Dunno if you saw the footage, but all my former neighbors were applauding the police after cooperating with them all day. No one felt put-out. And they caught them. SO either you're engaging in sarcasm and I missed it while posting in haste, or you're a dummy. And that's being generous. So kindly shut the fark up.