Author
Topic: More fun with 80/20...?? (Read 172741 times)

I wanted to start a thread to share ideas on jig/fixtures made with 80/20 to work with Festool, hoping others will chime in with their ideas. Here goes:

This is the latest jig, it is designed to secure a FS guide rail for cutting mostly narrow stock. I have done something similar in the past on my MFT but it involved continuous set up/break down of the 80/20 extensions as previously discussed on the FOG.

The downside of that approach was that I had to keep setting up/breaking down stuff secured to the MFT. The ideal setup was something used with or w/o the MFT to cut, in this case, narrow stock. What I came up with was a simple frame to (1) secure the FS rail, and (2) hold the stock while it was being cut. The pins just secure the rails with the Rip Dogs guide clips (no alignment), and the stock being cut rests on the MDF.

When not in use it hangs on the wall. Above it are my FS rails and the pieces of the 80/20 cutting table.

What are you doing with 80/20 in your shop?

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

A re-post, but the 80/20 linear bearings are really useful and within tolerance for woodworking. 80/20 mills really easily, this walnut puts more strain on my machines than any 80/20 gear. My next 80/20 project will be a sliding outrigger for my unisaw. For now it's being for jigss and subframes for my workbench. Looking forward to your next project Richard.

PS: can someone tell me if my photos all show up sideways? I do myFOGing on my IPhone and they view sideways for me. Anyone?

Nice applications all. One of these days I am going to make a slider for my router table using 8020 and their bearings. It should be easy to include an outrigger that folds in and out of the way when not needed.

The problem with 8020 in place of the MFS is that slots are needed on the edge and you can only get that in thicker cross sections, meaning you are too high off your work.

I am curious if anyone has used 8020 in a similar way the the MFS is used.

As Greg stated, the available 80/20 profiles with slots in the edge are too thick, I think the smallest is 25mm/1". You can find 20mm profiles elsewhere.

The best profiles I have found for routing are both from WoodPeckers. The larger profile is 0.70" thick and has the t-slot on the edge, the smaller profile is 0.50" thick but has no slot on the edge. In both cases I has the grind a hair off the edges of the Festool clamps before they would slide into the slots.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

That woodpecker super track looks promising. I wonder if something could be made (or already exists?) to connect 4 tracks together, each 90 degrees off another, like the MFS. I suppose a special nut and bolt would be needed.

I am curious if anyone has used 8020 in a similar way the the MFS is used.

As Greg stated, the available 80/20 profiles with slots in the edge are too thick, I think the smallest is 25mm/1". You can find 20mm profiles elsewhere.

The best profiles I have found for routing are both from WoodPeckers. The larger profile is 0.70" thick and has the t-slot on the edge, the smaller profile is 0.50" thick but has no slot on the edge. In both cases I has the grind a hair off the edges of the Festool clamps before they would slide into the slots.

Overall Bosch-Rexroth framing system is superior to 80/20 in terms of versatility and variety of components. Their linear motion goes from dry friction all the way to ball bearing on hardened steel shaft. There are components specific to workstations, workbenches and ergonomics.

With the anchor bolt fasteners, sounds like a similar method of joining at 90 degrees could be achieved. Who knows, just maybe not at the precision of the MFS. Wondering if I could find a anchor fastener to match the Woodpeckers Super Track.

In regards to the MFS application: look into Hafele Maxifix connectors I think they could be used quite easily to butt joint the extrusions (website says 19mm, they can go thinner if need be) with more user friendliness than the MFS. They use 35mm hinge mortising bits to install. So long you can nail the depth the idea should work.www.hafele.com/us/products/maxifix-connector-bolt-hafele.asp

Svar - I really like some of those thinner profiles @ techno-isel.com, they look useful. I am too heavily invested in 80/20 1515 profile to switch to the Bosch, and 80/20 is easily available here on eBay.

Here is another setup used to extend the MFT for longer cuts. My little shop is 11'9" inside (@ widest) so there is no room for a permanent bench larger than the MFT. The work-around is this extension that attaches with 2 knobs/t-bolts. Height is adjustable so the extension arms (w/MDF) can be lowered to the same height as the MFT top.

Shown is cross-cutting 96" material:

There is plenty of room to work between the MFT and the built in drawers, however you can just squeak by 8' material to get in/out the door.

After cross-cutting the arms are removed from the MFT, clearing it for other operations like mitering with the Rip Dogs, while leaving the extension on the MFT to use for routing/sanding/painting.

When done the extensions knock down in 10 minutes and go back to their place on the wall, taking up very little storage area.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

Lucked out again.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ? I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use any suggestions would be great

Bolts for t tracks can be anything. Those ones look like 80/20 gear but they could be anything. The important info for bolts is the selected length should be that of the material to be bolted plus 1/4" (20 series) to 1/8" (10 series) longer for the slot nut.

This is a little demo video from 80/20, their training site has a few and they're pretty useful. Maybe these could be used to carry a vac hose overhead or even a tool tray like the one on Micheals famous boom arm.

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ? I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

I have my own definition of Serendipity - "the act of doing something dumb and discovering something good from it".

After I had all 4 miter corners dominoed & glued and reached for clamps the realization dawned that the panel was longer than any of my clamps. Oops. Good thing the glue sets slow and there were lots of pieces of 80/20 sitting around.

I hastily cut/drilled a few blocks of wood & attached them to the 80/20 about 1/8" closer to each other than the length of the long side rail. Used the clamps on the long sides to pull the mitered corners together, which forced the short sides outward against the blocks and closed the miters nicely. The second photo shows the open miter and the third photo shows it after being clamped and closed.

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ? I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Is there any way to use a bolt head , maybe a carriage bolt in the slot & have the bolt body extend out & then tighten with a nut OR a Knob ??

where or what part # is those bolts ? or are those hardware store bought ? I have some 8020 #10 1 x 3 rails & some 1 x 1 rails coming but I'm not clear on the hardware to use any suggestions would be great

Slappy, those are 1515 (1.5") profiles. To give you a sense of scale the frame being clamped is 1.25" by 3.5" material just over 46" long. The cap screws are M8 probably 40mm long with tee nuts.

10 series uses M6 or 1/4" fasteners. 15 series is best with M8 or 5/16".

I have another panel to clamp up, this time I am going to use some wedges to let me adjust the clamping pressure. Will report back afterwards.

RMW

Is there any way to use a bolt head , maybe a carriage bolt in the slot & have the bolt body extend out & then tighten with a nut OR a Knob ??

5/16 carriage bolts work fine in the 1515. I don't know about the 1010 profile.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Was just fiddling around in the shop tonight and I stumbled across this.

This is just the 1515 ULS profile. It sits nearly perfectly level and just a tad under 1/2" below the MFT surface. I cobbled this together in a couple minutes & the 80/20 extensions with MDF are within 1mm of being dead level with the top.

Not something I would put a lot of weight on without legs to support it but a dead simple way to make extensions for the MFT/3.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Actually I just don't have a life so I end up standing around out there for hours, often with a cigar and ale, listening to audiobooks. Every now and then I pick up something I have been staring at and fit it to something else.

Keeps me out of the bars...

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I have an Oshlun AL blade for my Kapex and have used it to cut much smaller pieces than the 8020. I'm planning to build a couple of MFT/Sysport rolling cabinets using 8020 and am wondering whether I should buy a dedicated chop saw for that purpose, which will involve lots of large (4545) extrusions. I'd prefer to use the Kapex and save the money and space required for another saw, but what do people think? (I know Carroll Adams recommends against cutting metal and wood on the same saw, but I've already broken that taboo, since I didn't have the luxury of multiple miter saws.)

I have an Oshlun AL blade for my Kapex and have used it to cut much smaller pieces than the 8020. I'm planning to build a couple of MFT/Sysport rolling cabinets using 8020 and am wondering whether I should buy a dedicated chop saw for that purpose, which will involve lots of large (4545) extrusions. I'd prefer to use the Kapex and save the money and space required for another saw, but what do people think? (I know Carroll Adams recommends against cutting metal and wood on the same saw, but I've already broken that taboo, since I didn't have the luxury of multiple miter saws.)

I plan on getting a Kapex later this spring for the wood stuff but will use the dewalt till then

The Old Delta will then be just used as AL cut saw , it's small enuff to stuff away when not needed

i'd advise buying a used chop saw & place one of these blades on it for the AL & copper stuff ( the AL blades cut PVC & other plastics very well Too)

but get the smaller tooth AL cut blades as the more teeth the smoother the 8020 cut surface will be that above is 100 teeth on a 10" blade

More is better when cutting the AL stuff Big Time I was cutting some AL angles & flat stock on my stock Dewalt carbide last summer but with the cost of the 8020 I wanted a finer cut surface be safe & clamp down any metal pieces very well when using a chop saw ! ! ! Go SLOW !

One of the reasons I like 80/20 so much is the ability to reconfigure it as needed. Yesterday I had to flatten a worktop made of recycled Brazilian Cherry flooring shorts. The top was cupped in the center; the worst spot was about 1/8” low.

It was the first really beautiful spring weekend we have had this year (the Laughing Gulls are back, what I consider to be the “official” start of spring) so the bonus was being able to set up the cutting/clamping table outside.

This setup is just another take on the router sled method for flattening a surface. The extrusions are the 15 series profile, after leveling everything I spent an hour running the router w/ a 30mm bottom cutting bit back & forth, followed by another hour of sanding and then on to the Osmo oil.

Along with the 80/20 a couple slotted plates made out of ¼” by 2” aluminum bar get used a lot to hold extrusions together as router guides, etc.

At the end of the day the table breaks down in 10 minutes and takes up minimal room on the shop wall. I find that having a couple full 97” lengths of 1515 around, along with a bunch of different shorter pieces, is handy to whomp up different jigs as needed.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

I don't know whats nicer... that 8020 table or the big green egg in the background.

The egg, which is about 12 years old, is basically being held together by that table. The bottom is split in two, crack has widened to 3/16", my own fault. It is difficult now to control temp, and it won't smother leftover charcoal at the end of a cook anymore. I stopped in at Fred's Music and BBQ in Shillington PA earlier today and checked the price for the replacement bottom, $420!!!

Seriously considering replacing it with the Kamado Joe @ $749 for the comparable model. They recommend it but I need to do some research myself.

And, I need to convince the boss it is necessary...

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I don't know whats nicer... that 8020 table or the big green egg in the background.

The egg, which is about 12 years old, is basically being held together by that table. The bottom is split in two, crack has widened to 3/16", my own fault. It is difficult now to control temp, and it won't smother leftover charcoal at the end of a cook anymore. I stopped in at Fred's Music and BBQ in Shillington PA earlier today and checked the price for the replacement bottom, $420!!!

Seriously considering replacing it with the Kamado Joe @ $749 for the comparable model. They recommend it but I need to do some research myself.

And, I need to convince the boss it is necessary...

RMW

make Yer own bottom for that green egg / a little concrete & chicken wire is all that is needed L O L use the broke one as a mold

Yesterday we did pizza on the egg, which as noted below has a cracked bottom that has widened now to about 1/4". The top also shifted due to the crack & I can no longer regulate temperature via the top/bottom vents.

The first 2 pizza's turned out great:

6+ minutes for the 1st one, then <4 minutes for the 2nd. Should have clued me that the temp on the stone was rising pretty fast. The third pie was one our friend brought over and the dough was really really moist and gooey, when we slid it onto the stone if went Ka-blooie!!!

I checked the temp and it had hit 900 degrees. We let it cook on the shards of the stone, then ate some pizza. The fire was raging unregulated but there was not much we could do, then I noticed this:

Spent the next few hours wetting the table until the load of charcoal burned itself out. Next week I will pick up the Kamado Joe as a replacement.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Rich, are you going to share your sketch up file on how to burn down your porch while making Easter dinner? But how to save the house by using 80/20 and some festools? I'd love to get those links. Happy Easter

Rich, are you going to share your sketch up file on how to burn down your porch while making Easter dinner? But how to save the house by using 80/20 and some festools? I'd love to get those links. Happy Easter

Yep, the thread meandered into grilling...

Happy Easter to you also.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Before you get rid of your green egg, try some Refractory cement. It's what they use in charcoal forges, and also it's real common for rebuilding the bottom of cast-iron wood-burning/coal stoves. I use it to repair cracks in my cast-iron stoves.

I've seen a lot of questions on cutting this stuff. There really is not more difficultly in cutting it then there is cutting wood. As people have said clamping is necessary and a slow feed rate. Other than that no one should be afraid of getting good results with cut to length machining. This stuff is surprisingly soft, even handsaws and drill bits cut easily. If you haven't done metal work before don't worry about it, you'll be fine. 80/20 is set up so you don't have to know any real metal work! Jump I'm and go for it!

clamping is just for safety for the person & the saw , saw blade flying metal even AL is dangerous slow cutting means a smoother cut surface & lessons the chance of shattering the carbide tips By the way you should only use carbide tipped blades to cut AL Yes You can cut with a HSS blade but that blade will dull quickly I've cut allota AL & 80/20 , even copper pipe with my Dewalt miter saw & carbide blade with smooth cuts nearly burrless as well In fact I'll be cutting some 1/2" AL plate today as I make a zero clearance plate for my MiniMax S500P Band Saw (i'm pimping out the MM20)

Don't expect to cut aluminum exactly the same as wood. Any thickness over 1/8" and you should cycle the blade in and out of the material. Any triple chip blade will work but a blade with negative rake is best to avoid self feeding. I cut anything up to 1" with my Makita 10" chop saw but do not force the blade. I just cut a 6" wide X 1" thick piece for a mag lock spacer and even cycling I popped the circuit breaker twice.

Would I be able to cut Incra T-Track + the same as 8020 since that is aluminum also? My main concern is dulling my TS55 blade. I would only be making one cut to cut a piece of Incra track in half. I'm assuming the 1 cut would not dull the blade noticeably. Correct?

I have cut 1/4" 6061 on my table saw with no issue. They sell a 'wax stick' that you can use to help keep the blade slippery and cool, and it helps a lot. Not sure what effect the wax would have on wood, so I either use a different blade for wood or clean it up with lacquer thinner after use.

Would I be able to cut Incra T-Track + the same as 8020 since that is aluminum also? My main concern is dulling my TS55 blade. I would only be making one cut to cut a piece of Incra track in half. I'm assuming the 1 cut would not dull the blade noticeably. Correct?

There are several of us here, myself included- some reluctantly - some not - who can attest to the fact that the Festool blades can accidentally or not make an accidental or purposeful cut in aluminum guide rails, MFT extrusions, MFT fences, etc without noticeable harm to the blade on the occasional basis. If you are going to purposely make the cuts more frequently then there is a non ferrous cutting blade available.

Would I be able to cut Incra T-Track + the same as 8020 since that is aluminum also? My main concern is dulling my TS55 blade. I would only be making one cut to cut a piece of Incra track in half. I'm assuming the 1 cut would not dull the blade noticeably. Correct?

There are several of us here, myself included- some reluctantly - some not - who can attest to the fact that the Festool blades can accidentally or not make an accidental or purposeful cut in aluminum guide rails, MFT extrusions, MFT fences, etc without noticeable harm to the blade on the occasional basis. If you are going to purposely make the cuts more frequently then there is a non ferrous cutting blade available.

Peter

+1

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

There is a bunch of 14mm stainless rod left over from our staircase handrail project so I decided to use it to make shop wall brackets to hold clamps, etc. Ideally the rods need to be at a slight angle of a few degrees to prevent stuff from slipping off too easily.

In the past when the need arose to drill holes on the drill press at angles I just cobbled together something with a wedge, etc. Finally tired of that routine so I whomped up a jig from some scraps and hardware I had laying around:

Love being able to repurpose pieces and parts as the need arises.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

So, from the responses before and after my post, I'm getting the feeling that 1 cut of T-Track with the standard Festool blade wouldn't harm it. Given that I would never cut into my MFT rails (Ha, have cut too deep into the top already; just not the rails) I won't worry. I also have a Bosch jig saw for which I have metal cutting blades and probably could do that. I was just looking for a way to make the cut smoothly so the T-track ends would be "professional" instead like the ends of a steel pipe I've cut with a hack saw.

In regards to dulling your blade... your cutting aluminum with carbide. Not a chance of ever dulling. Aluminum is a "sticky" metal however. If cutting thin, less than 3/16", and are not making that many cuts, you don't need to lub. Thick extrusions and lots of cuts will necessitate using a spray lub... we buy WD40 by the gallon and deep it in cheap spray bottle... spray the blade occasionally, no need for a continuous spray unless cutting 3/4"+. I use a scrap piece of brass to cut and clean galled aluminum off my blades and occasionally remove the blade and clean the body with conditioning belts. This body cleaning is essential when cutting a lot of acrylics or polycarbonates.

Yesterday we did pizza on the egg, which as noted below has a cracked bottom that has widened now to about 1/4". The top also shifted due to the crack & I can no longer regulate temperature via the top/bottom vents.

.....

Spent the next few hours wetting the table until the load of charcoal burned itself out. Next week I will pick up the Kamado Joe as a replacement.

Yesterday we did pizza on the egg, which as noted below has a cracked bottom that has widened now to about 1/4". The top also shifted due to the crack & I can no longer regulate temperature via the top/bottom vents.

.....

Spent the next few hours wetting the table until the load of charcoal burned itself out. Next week I will pick up the Kamado Joe as a replacement.

RMW

I thought that the Big Green Egg had a lifetime warranty?

-- Michael

Yes - IF you register it when purchased, something I apparently did not do 10-12 years ago.

Also, in truth, the original crack was caused by a modification I installed. Some welded steel brackets that raised the grill, but were inserted between the inner fire box and outer shell, a mistake in hindsight. Over time that apparently created some stress pressing outwards on the shell, and when I loosened the steel band to clean the top/bottom prior to replacing the gasket the stress was released and the bottom shell popped. Since then the re-tightened band and the table have been holding it together, but the crack has widened over time as the lower ends moved apart.

The good news is the boss is feeling generous and has insisted I not only replace it, but get the larger one to boot. Gotta act before the moment passes. I think I have settled on the Kamado Joe, every bit as high quality as the BGE and better equipped for less money.

On the 80/20 front I got to use my angle drilling jig last night, 4 lengths of 45" hard maple with 14mm holes 64mm O.C. @ 2 degrees. Probably an hour of setup and drilling, filled with Peter Mulvey tunes, overall a very nice evening.

These will get mounted to the wall and loaded with clamps, etc:

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Yesterday it occurred to me again how doggone handy these 80/20 MFT extension arms are:

Used the same setup to cut the parts (with parallel guides and a 90 degree cross-cut guide) and then hold them during assembly. Thinking about it I realized that this is the preferred setup for at least half of the work I do on the MFT.

While in central PA a week ago I stopped at Grizzly and spent a couple hours wandering around the showroom in a daze. Amazingly this little vise, and some sanding disks, was all I brought home.

Even more fun with 80/20...

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Then, following on your post showing how 8020 extrusions hang on Festool MFT extrusions, I have built 2 lamp stands, one saw holder, one battery charging station, and one dog house as add ons to my MFT.

Now finalizing design for combination 8020 and Baltic Birch "MFT like" rolling cabinet and router table. Thanks again for the inspiration and tips.

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

Richard, that swag table looks great. If there was a taller maxi, you could store your portaband, table, and still have room for parts. Does the table use some sort of wingnut to hold the legs on?

Legs are bolted on.

Check out their videos for more info, the newest version lets the newer saw just slip in. Older versions fit different saws, mine uses their throat plate to replace the stock one but then the saw slips in/out of the table for handheld use.

It gets used a lot.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Once again, I have tuned in a bit late. Somehow, this thread slipped past my view.

When i got to the green egg portion of the discussion, I got to laughing. The part about using concrete in the bottom brought back an on the job experience from nearly 50 years ago. (49 to be a bit more precise) One more chance for me to bore the ---- (insert your own words) out of y-all.

I had a contract to do the masonry on a development of some quite large houses. The project was being constructed over some reclaimed marsh (wetlands) and we had some problems to solve concerning possible future settlement. Instead of digging footings, we went in with a couple of dozers and pushed out a few feet of soft ground (peat) until we hit solid base. we then brought in about 3 to 4 feet of bank run gravel, compacting with a large roller as we went. Instead of wide footings, we put forms around the perimeter of the structure to be, layed out mesh and rods. The rods were on about 12" centers in both directions and wired together with the mesh tied over that. We poured the complete floor about 12" thick with extra reinforcement wherever a foundation wall was going above.

A couple of the houses were being constructed during a very cold winter and we had to keep the gravel base protected until the concrete had been poured. Once the concrete was poured, we still had to protect the surface. We covered with hay and tarps over nite, uncovering only the area we would be working on by day. The foundations were concrete blocks (that, and all other unit type masonry were my part) and we needed to heat water and sand for the mortar. We had been off the project for about a week while the slabs were being poured and supposedly covered by the concrete contractor. I had sand, cement and lime delivered before the slab had been poured. My materials were well protected, but we had to bring in water in some 50 gallon drums. I gave my crew directions to set up some blocks next to the sand pile so we could build a fire under a drum. With warm water, we did not need to heat the sand other than reflective heat from heating the water. I left it up to my guys to take care of the setup while i went to a meeting with one of my other builders.

When i arrived at the job, the first sight was of a water drum elevated over a roaring fire out on the very middle of the concrete slab. The slab had not been covered with anything but some tarps. No hay or insulating material any kind. The crew was busy with shovels and wheelbarrows moving the sand out onto the slab as close to the fire as possible. I jumped out of the truck yelling to get that fire out of there. Now, normally, i am just a quiet guy , but sometimes one has to get a little excited. It wakes people up when you yell a little .

"What are you yelling about?" somebody asked.

Just about the moment i was about to explain what could happen to cold concrete with a very hot fire burning away on it's surface, there was a loud blast as the entire 50 gal drum flew about ten feet in the air turning upside down and dumping its entire contents onto the fire. "That's why I was yelling!"

Luckilly, no body was standing close to the fire, as there were some rather large chunks of concrete lying in a circle about 4 to 5 feet out from where the fire had been. Luckilly, the heat had not penetrated down far enough to affect the rod and wire reinforcement. The architect looked it over and with a little jack hammer and sawing work, we were able to put a neat patch in place.

About the responder a page or so back who recommended concrete and wire for a base under the fire, I, for one, don't think so. A picture a little later on showed a pulverized stone pad that shows very graphically what can happen. Of course, that was probably not as exciting as my water drum flying sky high with enough water to extinguish a huge bonfire once it reached its full altitude and turned upside down. There was a lot of sizzling for a few minutes. Nobody was hurt and the expense turned out to be minimal. And, we all got a good laugh >>> sometime after I cooled off.

Those dogs are from well know breeder John of Tool Improvements fame. What you see is a 1/4-20 knurled and plated wing nut. The other side of the dog has a flat face with a vertical slot so a fence or jig can be bolted to the dog, through the slot, at various heights.

Those dogs are from well know breeder John of Tool Improvements fame. What you see is a 1/4-20 knurled and plated wing nut. The other side of the dog has a flat face with a vertical slot so a fence or jig can be bolted to the dog, through the slot, at various heights.

And I think you are fortunate to have several sets, John kinda retired and sailed off into the sunset, as least as far as dog-breeding is concerned.

A "Dog House" - now I get it!

On another note, all I can say is "Wow". You seem to have most every 20mm dog known to man, with the possible exception of the Parf's. Getting any use from the Rip Dogs?

Thanks for posting the photos, you made good use of the 80/20 hanging on the MFT, much better than I have. I'm going to copy your TS55 shelf, mine got drug off the MFT yet again last week by the hose. Luckily no damage so far but it is only a matter of time.

My, your naivete is astonishing. When I last counted there were at least 16 breeds (purebreds) plus at least two half breed varities of dogs in use by foggers. My position as not-so-special assistant to the 3rd Deputy Undersecretary of the FKCoA (Festool Kennel Club of America) requires me to maintain a significant, but incomplete, collection of breeds. As you may already know, the FKCoA was founded to honor our one true leader, the right honorable Grand Master Breeder, QWAS. Unfortunately Master QWAS seems to have gone over to the non-dark side with the recent announcement of dogs in a multiplicity of vivid colors.

Yes, I do use your Rip Dogs when when I need to make longer cuts over about 40 inches. Very useful then. When even longer cuts are needed I happily use your parallel guides on MFT extensions copied from you. (against the wall in the far rear of the photo).

Best part of my shop: Step out garage door to the North for a view of the Bookcliff Mountains, the Grand Valley, and the Grand Mesa. Step out the other door to the South for a view of the red rocks of the Colorado National Monument.

My, your naivete is astonishing. When I last counted there were at least 16 breeds (purebreds) plus at least two half breed varities of dogs in use by foggers. My position as not-so-special assistant to the 3rd Deputy Undersecretary of the FKCoA (Festool Kennel Club of America) requires me to maintain a significant, but incomplete, collection of breeds. As you may already know, the FKCoA was founded to honor our one true leader, the right honorable Grand Master Breeder, QWAS. Unfortunately Master QWAS seems to have gone over to the non-dark side with the recent announcement of dogs in a multiplicity of vivid colors.

Yes, I do use your Rip Dogs when when I need to make longer cuts over about 40 inches. Very useful then. When even longer cuts are needed I happily use your parallel guides on MFT extensions copied from you. (against the wall in the far rear of the photo).

Best part of my shop: Step out garage door to the North for a view of the Bookcliff Mountains, the Grand Valley, and the Grand Mesa. Step out the other door to the South for a view of the red rocks of the Colorado National Monument.

"Naivete"... I'm blushing...

The Bookcliff Mountains et al places you around Grand Junction? Gorgeous country. I chased a girl (caught her, I'm happy to say) from Nevada to NJ via PA, so I am living somewhere I never expected to find myself and missing the high desert. At least we have a great beach, something about 10,000 shoobies realized as they have just descended upon us for the long weekend.

Everyone enjoy the holiday weekend, and remember those who sacrificed.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Was just fiddling around in the shop tonight and I stumbled across this.

This is just the 1515 ULS profile. It sits nearly perfectly level and just a tad under 1/2" below the MFT surface. I cobbled this together in a couple minutes & the 80/20 extensions with MDF are within 1mm of being dead level with the top.

would the 10 profile fit as well? i'm so happy i just stumbled upon this thread as i'm outfitting an incra positioner and router table, with designs on attaching my contractor table saw to the MFT to maximize the precision of the positioner. of course money is an option, but when you are fitting expensive parts together, it hardly seems logical to scrimp on the joinery!?

Not something I would put a lot of weight on without legs to support it but a dead simple way to make extensions for the MFT/3.

Got a deal on a DeWalt sawhorse/saw stand ($89 @ Lowes & also on Amazon Prime) and mated it up with the 80/20 extension arms I use so much. Turned out to be a great work support for quickie jobs, like cutting some brick outside to keep the nasty dust out of the shop.

Best part is it sets up in 60 seconds, and is totally portable. I have the longer DeWalt miter saw stand also, next time I break down plywood I am going to try it with 4-6 of the 80/20 extensions.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Got a deal on a DeWalt sawhorse/saw stand ($89 @ Lowes & also on Amazon Prime) and mated it up with the 80/20 extension arms I use so much. Turned out to be a great work support for quickie jobs, like cutting some brick outside to keep the nasty dust out of the shop.

Got a deal on a DeWalt sawhorse/saw stand ($89 @ Lowes & also on Amazon Prime) and mated it up with the 80/20 extension arms I use so much. Turned out to be a great work support for quickie jobs, like cutting some brick outside to keep the nasty dust out of the shop.

After a number of fits and starts, I have most of my 80/20 system together. As much of it is the same (extrusions and such) as everyone else has done, I'll just concentrate on what I did differently and why I use the word system to describe it.

The basics are I used 40 series extrusions and carrymaster casters. On the main table I have a full shelf underneath the top to allow access to the underside of the top and to keep items I'm using at the time. For the shelves below, I chose to keep them open with the drawer glides attached directly to the extrusions. They become structural members as if the worktable needed to be any more stable. Eventually, I'll probably make drawers to go in the center section.

This image shows the connectors I used. The m4 screws and drop in T nuts are to mount the drawer slides. I mainly used the end fasteners on the right wherever a fixed connection was needed. I used the anchor fasteners on the left when a piece of extrusion might need to be moved or added temporarily (you'll see what I mean in a few minutes). I used the panel brackets to support the top. This is the main feature I hadn't seen anyone else describe using.

Here is a more open look at the second unit I built which has the same long length as the first but is only half as wide. You can see how the panel brackets are attached.

To get the top to sit up from the extrusions, I built a frame from 3/4 ply and used loose dominoes as connectors.

Then I cut the top to the exact dimensions of the extrusion arms, drop it in and tighten the connectors. I might later directly attach the top but so far it hasn't been necessary.

The first change I made was to make the first set of holes in jig boards instead of on the blank itself. I actually drilled both boards at the same time and flipped one.

One other difference from what others have done is that I wanted the first row and column to be exactly 28 mm from the edge (more on that later). I'll also show what the 32mm offset shelf pin holes are for.

In this step and most others in making the top I don't think I can possibly overstate the importance the Incra precision T-rule has been to me. It has become a go-to tool.

Here is my setup for drilling the top. Keeping the jig precisely aligned was critical so I used three bar clamps so I could always have at least two attached at all times.

Probably the most controversial (heretical?) thing I did was to precisely drill a hole in the rail to fit the pin hole in the jig to get that 28 mm distance from the side. I used this as a coarse adjustment that I refined later.

I also couldn't overhang the side guide holes to use the Qwas rail dogs and keep everything stable while drilling. So I used these threaded sleeves I got from John at tool improvements. They let me work on a flat tabletop. I don't know of anyone currently making these but as they make excellent rail pups I would expect that any of the current dog suppliers could make a set.

For the drilling operation I used three bits. The first is a Whiteside 25/32, second the Festool 20 mm, and finally a pin I had on hand which is part of the Micro Fence circle jig. This made for a lot of bit change out during the process but as they each used a different collet, the process went fairly smoothly. At the start of each row I used the centering pin to make a fine adjustment then clamped the rail and removed the shelf pin from the rail. I used the Whiteside bit which was slightly undersized to remove most of the material. I found best results at not drilling completely through with this bit even using a backer board. I have a bias toward using a 1/2 inch shank when drilling through thick material. I then used the 20 mm to size the holes and make a clean exit through the board.

Then wash, rinse and repeat and you have a board full of holes.

Now I have two tables, one with a holy top and one without. Here comes the system part.

By simply using two more pieces of extrusion and a second drilled top flipped with respect to the other, I now have a top that is a little over 4 by 8 feet.

Looking down the line you can see what I was hoping for.

First, it passed the square test.

Second the other thing I was trying for worked as well. If you had been doing the math you would have seen that 28 mm times two plus a 40 mm extrusion gives a 96 mm hole space between tops. The only thing I had to demonstrate this was this part from my MFT 1080s.

Now it is time to get to work. But as you can see, the next top I build will be much easier.

Sorry this was so long but I hope you found the read worthwhile.

Dick Perry

Logged

The difference between theory and practice in practice is greater than the difference between theory and practice in theory.

The main reason I started on this project is that I consider my workspace small as well, around 16x16 feet. I don't intend for the large unit shown above to be set up very often. The small table and another I have planned that has the same width as the small one but the length of the short side of the main table will replace the ugly white thing shown in some of the shots above. I also plan to put my planner and possibly some other smaller tools on their small table tops.

80/20 refers to their product as being the industrial erector set and I hope to take advantage of that to roll together what I need at the time and leave them against the wall when I don't. This is however turning into another addiction.

Dick

Logged

The difference between theory and practice in practice is greater than the difference between theory and practice in theory.

@ 10 by 12 outside dimension I am constantly struggling to find a place for [insert tool type here].

Seriously though, it has made me think thru what I really need to do the work I want to. I started w/ Festool when we moved to this house, going from a 800 SF shop to this little shed. Forced me to get rid of all my stationary tools other than a couple of small benchtop items.

One way I made it work larger is having the outside deck at the same height, weather permitting I can roll everything outside.

I spent the last couple days staring at my MFT, which has been covered with grill racks and accessories for the past couple weeks. Came to the realization that it takes up a lot of SF (nearly 9 of < 120) and I have not actually cut anything on it recently. Now I am noodling a hybrid, something that is only 20" deep with a top that expands.

Yes, the erector set does become addicting.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I agonized over that part of the setup for quite a while. In the end I had to have the vertical slots in the legs available to be able to add the middle section. You can see that in the next to last picture.

To make up for that I stocked up on what they call roll-in T-nuts especially the ones with a shoulder and a ball spring. And as I talked about with the drawer slides I use drop in T-nuts that twist to lock. This lets me add things after final assembly. Among other things, I hope to add a Moxon vise to one end of the main table but still be able to remove it.

Richard,

My 16x16 is also outside dimensions with six inch walls. Makes me feel squeezed in when I think of it that way.

I also do without a table saw and made the tables so beefy so I can do hand planning and the like on them as well.

Dick

Logged

The difference between theory and practice in practice is greater than the difference between theory and practice in theory.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.

I spent the last couple days staring at my MFT, which has been covered with grill racks and accessories for the past couple weeks. Came to the realization that it takes up a lot of SF (nearly 9 of < 120) and I have not actually cut anything on it recently. Now I am noodling a hybrid, something that is only 20" deep with a top that expands.

Yes, the erector set does become addicting.

RMW

I have been toying with same idea for my shop. I have a floorspace of 9-1/2 feet by about 18 feet. One wall has my lumber rack so about 1-1/2 of floor space and wall space for tools is lost. I am coming to the conclusion that my MFT's take up a lot of working around space. I have been watching this conversation with a lot of interest along with a couple of others threads discussing variations to Ron Paulk's design.

RMW's idea for integrating DW rail and 80/20 really rang my bell. The same idea could be used to extend my further replacement of MFT as well as moving outside to my 1/2 acre shop for projects that are too big for inside my shop. Even if I have space horizontally to build inside, my ceiling is less than 6'8" high. A set of shelves or a cabinet of any size are almost impossible to construct the way I am presently set up.

While I love my MFT and have a lot invested in dogs, etc. I am realizing it gets used for cutting only infrequently. Anytime I am cutting plywood I default to the 80/20 extensions with parallel guides for ripping, and this t-square-ish guide for cross cutting:

Sometime after the first photos were taken I modified it by adding a section of Incra T-Track + with an adjustable stop, this lets me set repeatable panel lengths between about 9.5" and 24". Anything longer I just measure/mark and align the splinter guard.

My current weekend project is a weatherproof storage area under the deck off the house, it gives me about 7' wide by 9' long, 36" high storage for materials and some tools. Basically built a very short shed under the deck. When completed next weekend I suspect my MFT will be calling it home, then I can figure out what to replace it with inside the shop.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

I'll see if I can find them, they were basically just 1-1/2" squares of 1/4" AL with a 5/16" hole centered and tapped. I think I ground a slight bevel on 2 edges to match the underside bevel on the DeWalt horses.

Needed to cut some ply recently and I almost dug them out but instead used those 80/20 extension arms on the MFT to create a surface for cutting full sheets down.

RMW

Logged

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!