Tuesday, November 10, 2009

We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." - Winston Churchill

Veterans Day is a time to remind our nation to reflect on all of the people who served and sacrificed as members of the United States military and thank them for that service. From the battles of Lexington and Concord to the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, this nation has always had a strong core of people who were willing to serve, fight, and sometimes die for their country and that is truly honorable.TSA has a strong core of Veterans who have come to TSA to continue to serve and protect their country- in a different capacity. Over 15,000 of our employees are Veterans and over 3,000 employees are serving in the military reserves. Many are currently deployed to Afghanistan and Iraq.

Whether these dedicated men and women served in a kitchen or a foxhole - or were an expert with an M-16 or a Clarinet - their selfless service to our country is something to appreciate and recognize - today and every day.

So, on behalf of TSA, I would like to extend a sincere thank you to all of our nation’s Veterans.

I'm a retired Air Force officer who was on active duty from 1976-98. I fly frequently in my second career. I am absolutely appalled by the complete disregard for the Constitution taking place at airports and elsewhere in the name of "security."

I grieve when I reflect on the tens of millions of my fellow veterans who have honorably served, many of whom never came back or came back permanently disabled -- mentally and/or physically, to defend freedoms which don't exist any more.

Many of us are still fighting for and defending these freedoms at TSA checkpoints, in Congress, in the courts, and, yes, still on the battlefield.

The responses on this blog just show the massive egos of the anon. "How dare TSA not respond again to my question that I feel is extremely important and wasn't answered correctly the last 30 times I asked!!"

As the retired USAF Colonel stated, this is very germane to the discussion. He and his fellow soldiers fought and suffered for the freedoms in this country. Many didn't return and others came back disabled.

It's a down right shame to see TSA trample the freedoms they fought and bled for. It's really sad to see my friends and coworkers go off to serve and bring freedom to the people in Afghanistan and Iraq while many Americans, including many in TSA, are abandoning the same freedoms abroad.

Thank you, Colonel, for your service to our nation. Thank you to all the military who have done the same.

Two of my close family members served in the US Navy and USAF, and I honor their contribution to our country. At the same time, I agree with the Colonel and Al Ames that TSA is destroying, at the checkpoint, the liberties that our armed forces won on the battlefield.

I am also appalled at your statement that TSA employees "continue to serve and protect their country - in a different capacity." Trying to gain credibility by equating yourselves with the armed forces is outrageous.

Members of the armed forces are not currently, nor have they recently, done anything whatsoever to "protect our freedom," "defend our country," or fulfill any other such grand, propogandistic claim. This is the truth, no matter how many times you repeat your slogans.

Anon sez - "Yeah, if you appreciate us so much, why do I have to take off my boots and play your security theater when I'm in uniform and traveling on orders?"

Unless there is something in the boots causing them to alarm, you should not be required to remove them. Since the inception of the military exception, I have not had any military member be required to remove their boots unless there was something in the boots causing the WTMD to alarm.

On a side note, we just recently had 2 "Flights of Honor" that took WWII vets to DC to visit the WWII memorial. It was an awesome experience, the stories and camaraderie amongst these "old school warriors" were some of my favorite memories working here. They deserve our thanks, and the trip for all they did for our country. If any of you hear of this type of event at your local airport, I recommend that you go to the airport and visit with these folks as they are leaving or coming back in, they are truly humble and a joy to be around.

Anonymous said... Yeah, if you appreciate us so much, why do I have to take off my boots and play your security theater when I'm in uniform and traveling on orders?

November 12, 2009 2:44 PM

So i take it you have no clue what happened at Fort Hood a week ago, right? Theres a reason why TSA screens the people they screen, and maybe they should screen everyone that steps foot in the sterile area, because if you cant trust a man in uniform, who can you trust?

Anon- Why do you have to take off your boots when you are travelling on orders? I don't know for sure, but do you think someone like Maj Nidal Malik Hasan perhaps travelled in uniform and on orders? It isn't a safe assumption that because someone is in uniform and on orders they present no potential threat. Further, uniforms are easy to come by and military orders can be faked by anyone with MS Word and a printer.

Finally, can we forego the "TSA is destroying our freedoms" nonsense. If TSA is doing it then every courthouse in America is guilty of it as well. In fact the courthouse is far worse. You CHOOSE to go to the airport, no one can force you to. However, I can get a letter in the mail stating that if I fail to appear at the courthouse at a certain date and time a warrant will be issued even though all I did was have my name picked at random for Jury Duty. In order to fulfill this mandate imposed on me I must submit to a search of my person and property and have no choice in the matter. They have been X-raying bags and making people walk through metal detectors at airports for 30 years. This is nothing new, its no "brand new" imposition on your rights, its the same thing that has been happening for decades, and the courts have been ok with it. So please, drop the cheap theatrics and take the train.

"They have been X-raying bags and making people walk through metal detectors at airports for 30 years. This is nothing new, its no "brand new" imposition on your rights, its the same thing that has been happening for decades"

Um, the shoe carnival and the liquids nonsense are, in fact, "brand new," as is TSA's desire to take naked pictures of children flying on aircraft.

Ah...while many people hate the TSA and their policies (sometimes rightfully so), I think that to add snarky comments either insulting the TSA and/or asking irrevelant questions on this post is stupid. Asking about why boots need to be removed, though, or other questions related with being in the military and being screened by TSA, however, is fine. Just my opinion, but I believe this post is pretty respectful and shouldn't be insulted or mocked by people.

If you have an issue with TSA, that's understandable and valid. Comment on other posts. This post, however, I believe deserves respect. Our armed forces do so much and sacrifice so much for this nation, and we need to appreciate that, no matter who or where we are from.

Anon sez - "Yeah, if you appreciate us so much, why do I have to take off my boots and play your security theater when I'm in uniform and traveling on orders?"

Unless there is something in the boots causing them to alarm, you should not be required to remove them. Since the inception of the military exception, I have not had any military member be required to remove their boots unless there was something in the boots causing the WTMD to alarm.

West TSA Blog Team

#######

Why is the TSA making exceptions for the military? Especially in light of the Ft. Hood shootings. Either everyone takes off their shoes at the checkpoint or no one does, no exceptions. If the TSA truly was concerned about passenger safety this should not be happening

The new rules, issuedin September and October, tell officers "screening may not be conducted to detect evidence of crimes unrelated to transportation security" and that large amounts of cash don't qualify as suspicious for purposes of safety.

"We had been hearing of so many reports of TSA screeners engaging in wide-ranging fishing expeditions for illegal activities," said Ben Wizner, a staff lawyer for the ACLU, pointing to reports of officers scanning pill-bottle labels to see whether the passenger was the person who obtained the prescription as one example.

He said screeners get a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches, strictly to keep weapons and explosives off planes, not to help police enforce other laws.

TSA spokeswoman Lauren Gaches said the new "internal directives" are meant to ensure their screeners are consistent. She acknowledged the policy on large sums of cash had changed, but wouldn't provide a copy of either document. She said the directives would not be released unless a Freedom Of Information Act request was submitted by The Washington Times.

"TSA routinely assesses its policies and screening procedures to ensure the highest levels of security nationwide," she said. "Currency alone is not a threat, and TSA does not restrict the amount of currency a traveler may carry through the checkpoint."

This kind of attitude is just one more reason why so many of do not trust you. Even those with long military careers, who are used to following out orders, recognize an out-of-control scenario.

Col;I served in the same United States Air Force from 1976 through 1992 and I don't see any disregard for the constitution. What I see here is another government agency trying to protect the people of this country the same as our military does but in another capacity. By continuing to protect the people those who sacrificed for this country didn't do it in vain.

Anon sez - "Why is the TSA making exceptions for the military? Especially in light of the Ft. Hood shootings. Either everyone takes off their shoes at the checkpoint or no one does, no exceptions. If the TSA truly was concerned about passenger safety this should not be happening"

I do not make policy, I was merely indicating what the SOP says. My personal opinion is that the military members should be accorded certain courtesies (such as the exemption for the shoes). These folks are serving our country and do so freely. They are not compelled to serve, they choose to sacrifice (in many ways and forms), and the least we can do is pay them a little respect back.

"So i take it you have no clue what happened at Fort Hood a week ago, right? Theres a reason why TSA screens the people they screen, and maybe they should screen everyone that steps foot in the sterile area, because if you cant trust a man in uniform, who can you trust?"

I was not aware that Maj Hasan was carrying his guns in his shoes. Thank you for that info.

TSM/West said... Col;I served in the same United States Air Force from 1976 through 1992 and I don't see any disregard for the constitution. What I see here is another government agency trying to protect the people of this country the same as our military does but in another capacity. By continuing to protect the people those who sacrificed for this country didn't do it in vain.

November 13, 2009 10:22 AM

....................West, where can I find a complete list of rules and regulations that I, a citizen, must comply with to traverse a TSA checkpoint?

What is the rule on ice and where is it published.

What is the rule on carrying cash and where is this information published?

Does a TSA employee have to provide identification when requested by a traveler and where is this rule published?

What are the limits of a TSA Administrative Search and where is this information available to a traveler?

And you really don't think TSA is abusing the Constitution of the United States?

"So i take it you have no clue what happened at Fort Hood a week ago, right? Theres a reason why TSA screens the people they screen, and maybe they should screen everyone that steps foot in the sterile area, because if you cant trust a man in uniform, who can you trust?"

I was not aware that Maj Hasan was carrying his guns in his shoes. Thank you for that info.

November 13, 2009 11:18 AM#######And yet when we want to keep our shoes on you will be the first person to claim shoe bombs are valid security threat.

I do not make policy, I was merely indicating what the SOP says. My personal opinion is that the military members should be accorded certain courtesies (such as the exemption for the shoes). These folks are serving our country and do so freely. They are not compelled to serve, they choose to sacrifice (in many ways and forms), and the least we can do is pay them a little respect back.

WestTSA Blog Team

November 13, 2009 11:07 AM

########The Ft. Hood shooter had also joined the military as a volunteer. What if he or some other service man decided to bring a shoe bomb onto a plane? We've had airport and TSA employees get arrested for theft, drug and gun smuggling, and have brought guns to work. This happened in spite of the back ground checks they were given. So why should I trust the military not to have the same problems?

This is off the topic of Veterans Day, but, I must respond. There are many in Congress (Reps Chaffetz and Paul being just two), courts, the DOJ, the GAO, and numerous private and non-profit sector experts who disagree with your view. You and I both know that an OSI detachment commander and/or agent or security police commander who tried to pull some of the stuff which happens at airports and other transportation centers would be removed before he knew what hit him.

I can understand your view of the TSA given that they are your employer. I'd suggest you do reasearch on the subject of "groupthink." This disease is pandemic among the TSA and the DHS at large. That's not a good thing for our country or the Constitution.

TSA gets a lot of grief for not being logical. I have no argument there, they are not always logical. Isn't it just as illogical though to stop checking for something just because it has not been attempted for several years?

I would think that those who write in and participate in these posts would agree that just because a successful aircraft explosion using a persons shoes as the primary means to carry the explosives has not been carried out does not mean that it never will and that we should no longer allow TSA to check shoes for dangerous and prohibited items.

On the contrary, in the period of time since our famous "Shoe Bomber" made his blundered attempt, more shoe manufacturers have popped up with lines of shoes that are made to look like ordinary shoes that have hidden compartments for concealing items. Some of these manufacturers don't even try to sell the shoes as anything but an ideal way of hiding items. Just google hidden compartment shoes. 76,000 results will come up.

If you can put explosives in a shoe and it is easier now than it was several years ago, shouldn't we expect that TSA would do everything that they can to prevent that? I just thought I would ask.

"Not sure if a gun has been used to hijack or attack anyone on a plane in years either but I'm not ready to fly commercially without all passengers on the plane screened for a gun."

Screening for guns is accomplished quickly and easily by x-raying bags and walking through a metal detector. Checking shoes for explosives needlessly adds time to screening and provides no additional safety in return.

"I would think that those who write in and participate in these posts would agree that just because a successful aircraft explosion using a persons shoes as the primary means to carry the explosives has not been carried out does not mean that it never will and that we should no longer allow TSA to check shoes for dangerous and prohibited items."

And yet, no country that doesn't have a mandatory shoe carnival has suffered a plane being brought down as a result. And before the shoe carnival was made mandatory in August of 2006, no one used a shoe bomb to harm a flight in the US. The fact is that shoes are a lousy delivery device for explosives and TSA is wasting its time making everyone remove them. We know it, TSA knows it, TSA is lying to us about it.

@Ranger11: "On the contrary, in the period of time since our famous "Shoe Bomber" made his blundered attempt, more shoe manufacturers have popped up with lines of shoes that are made to look like ordinary shoes that have hidden compartments for concealing items. Some of these manufacturers don't even try to sell the shoes as anything but an ideal way of hiding items. Just google hidden compartment shoes. 76,000 results will come up.

If you can put explosives in a shoe and it is easier now than it was several years ago, shouldn't we expect that TSA would do everything that they can to prevent that? I just thought I would ask."

And despite that, planes in the many countries in the world that DON'T have a shoe carnival aren't falling out of the sky either.

Is everyone else in the world just lucky, or is the shoe threat just overblown by TSA? Just thought I'd ask.

It is amazing how forceful the TSA's urge to avoid fixing the main problem with their image. It's not that the 'war on liquids' or the 'shoe carnival' or even the 'virtual strip machines' that people keep harping about. (Stop beating a dead horse already, folks). The TSA could easily solve their image problem by enforcing their rules evenly across the board to every single person who enters the 'sterile zone' at any level, including the tarmac, regardless of socio-economic, geo-political or ethnic background.Screen airport employees, rip-off-shop workers, flight crew, and TSA employees exactly the same as passengers. Secure the baggage. Secure the tarmac. Secure the checkpoint. Secure the airport. Until the TSA can do that, they are just a theatrical performance agency.

Bob, you apparently did not see this post since no answer has been provided.

The questions deals directly with information TSA is already providing to the public so an answer could not possibly be SSI.

So here are the questions again.

http://www.tsa.gov/311/311-carry-ons.shtm

....."All liquids, gels and aerosols must be in three-ounce or smaller containers. Larger containers that are half-full or toothpaste tubes rolled up are not allowed. Each container must be three ounces or smaller."

////

"To ensure the health and welfare of certain air travelers, in the absence of suspicious activity or items, greater than 3 ounces of the following liquids, gels and aerosols are permitted through the security checkpoint in reasonable quantities for the duration of your itinerary (all exceptions must be presented to the security officer in front of the checkpoint):

Baby formula, breast milk, and juice if a baby or small child is traveling;All prescription and over-the-counter medications (liquids, gels, and aerosols) including KY jelly, eye drops, and saline solution for medical purposes;Liquids including water, juice, or liquid nutrition or gels for passengers with a disability or medical condition;Life-support and life-sustaining liquids such as bone marrow, blood products, and transplant organs;Items used to augment the body for medical or cosmetic reasons such as mastectomy products, prosthetic breasts, bras or shells containing gels, saline solution, or other liquids; and,Frozen gels/liquids are permitted if required to cool medical and infant/child exemptions. Ice is permitted as long as there is no melted liquid present.

<><><><><><><><><>

Bob the statements above are direct quotes from the TSA.GOV web page referenced above discussing 3-1-1 for all travelers and allowable exceptions for those travelers with special needs.

My question to you or anyone at TSA in an official capacity to answer is this;

Air Force veteran here. Hats off to all the guys and gals who wear or wore the uniform. Thanks for your service, I know first-hand it's not easy!

TSA needs to be a little less didactic, however. While I agree that we need to be watchful against terrorism, many of the TSA 'rules' and 'guidelines' do nothing to curb terrorism, but do manage to very effectively erode the freedoms that make America worthwhile. I didn't put my life on the line so that I could be hassled about nailclippers, okay?

Sacrificing liberty for security and all that, it's something we MUST stay aware of. Too much red tape is worse than not enough vigilance.

With regards to the Col and his imaginary "assault on rights" the military took away more of my rights than TSA ever has. Lets see, I have to take my privately and legally owned weapons that I am not allowed to store in my own home and lock them up in a unit arms room and I need a signed memorandum from my Commander to get them out. Watch my Second Amendment rights get trampled. Finally, spare me the "group think" nonsense. If you can't argue your point on its merits don't argue at all. Don't resort to silly attacks like "group think." Do you really even want to talk about the military and the 1st Amendment? Or how about those big signs that say anyone driving onto post is subject to search? On some installations a public road crosses from one side to another people just passing through on their way to work are subject to that search? How is that any different than what TSA does? Oh right it isn't... Next to the "golly the Ft Hood Shooter didn't have a gun in his shoes" uhhh... no kidding. The point was not that he had something in his boot but rather that it shows people with ill intent can be in the military and thus they shouldn't be treated or screened differently than anyone else. Finally, the "planes aren't falling out of the sky in other countries" analogy was flawed from the start and has run its course. You can point to any policy in any country then find another country that doesn't do that. Pretty soon there is no security at all. It is no different than arguing "well your neighbor doesn't lock his doors and he hasn't been robbed, why are you inconviencing yourself with all those keys?" And lets be honest you people aren't upset over the shoes and liquids for any other reason than you feel inconvienced.

"Members of the armed forces are not currently, nor have they recently, done anything whatsoever to "protect our freedom," "defend our country,"

You don't count the disruption of the Taliban in Afghanistan?"

-------------------

What do you mean by "the Taliban?" If you are referring to the government of Afghanistan in 2001, then the most you can blame them for is protecting folks who attacked us. If you are using the current definition, then you are including anyone who opposes our occupation of Afghanistan. In any case, neither of those groups ever attacked us. The group that did attack us-- al-qaeda-- did so despite our military. Our brave men and women in uniform were absolutely incapable of protecting us. So, given the outrageous amount of money it costs us to send one soldier over to occupy a foreign land, I'm through with offering my profuse thanks every time someone starts weeping over the sacrifices of "the troops."

Col; I served in the same United States Air Force from 1976 through 1992 and I don't see any disregard for the constitution. What I see here is another government agency trying to protect the people of this country the same as our military does but in another capacity. By continuing to protect the people those who sacrificed for this country didn't do it in vain.

Really? You have seen no disregard for the Constitution?

Every time the TSA steps beyond the narrow administrative search boundaries for WEI (weapons, explosives, incendiaries) in an attempt to discover common criminal activity the TSA disregards the Constitution. (4th Amendment)

Every time the TSA illegally forces ID verification as a criterion for entering the sterile area the TSA disregards the Constitution. (Right to travel - U.S. v Guest, 383 U.S. 745 & others)

Every time the TSA asks a Pax where the money came from the TSA disregards the Constitution. (4th & 5th Amendments)

Every time the TSA allows TSOs to enter the sterile area without being screened the TSA disregards the Constitution. (14th Amendment)

Every time the SPO-7 is fired up in the common area the TSA disregards the Constitution. (4th Amendment)

Every time a Pax gets "randomed" for a secondary screening because of the t-shirt he is wearing the TSA disregards the Constitution. (1st & 4th Amendments)

I am beginning to grasp the phrase "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

Thank You to everyone that serves our country in whatever form! My way to serve is through TSA because I can't join the military(seizures). So please stop dogging everyone in TSA, some of us do this for our country! Hoo-HA!

"And yet when we want to keep our shoes on you will be the first person to claim shoe bombs are valid security threat."

Apparently you haven't been paying attention. There hs been no shoe bomb threat for the last 6 years. The fact is that in countries where they check shoes no one has blown up a plane, AND in countries where they don't check shoes no one has blown up a plane.

TSA needs to spend their money and time on real threats.

Like actually checking our baggage, which isn't done 100%, and doing better background checks on airline employees, who have turned out to be bigger security risks than the passengers.

This is a post about Veteran's Day, and you're asking questions about Britney and Shoes and yadda yadda yadda. D'ya go to a chef and ask how to fix a car engine? (Technically you could if he also knew about cars, but for the sake of arguement, let's assume being a chef is all he knows) Ask those question/complain in the topics actually TALKING about them. Want to whine more about Britney? Comment in the Britney post. Shoes/Water? Baggage check post. Veteran's day? Here. Not getting your questions answered here, don't get butthurt, go to the TSA website and... oh hey! See that link at the top saying 'Contact Us'? Click it. Use it. Don't hijack the post 'cause you're not getting all the attention.

As for Veteran's Day (now 5 days past), while not overtly patriotic, I do salute and support the armed forces themselves, as well as those who've served in the past. The people ordering them 'round the globe, not so much.

GSOLTSO said...On a side note, we just recently had 2 "Flights of Honor" that took WWII vets to DC to visit the WWII memorial. It was an awesome experience, the stories and camaraderie amongst these "old school warriors" were some of my favorite memories working here. They deserve our thanks, and the trip for all they did for our country. If any of you hear of this type of event at your local airport, I recommend that you go to the airport and visit with these folks as they are leaving or coming back in, they are truly humble and a joy to be around.

WestTSA Blog Team

November 12, 2009 5:48 PM#####So West how many of them were required to take off their shoes or voluntarily surrender their water? Or did they get an exception because no one wanted the bad press that would occur.

"And lets be honest you people aren't upset over the shoes and liquids for any other reason than you feel inconvienced."

No, it is because they create a significant inconvenience, intrusion, and loss of privacy with precisely zero increase of security in exchange. X-raying bags and the WTMD are very slightly inconvenient, but not at all intrusive and a sensible measure for keeping guns and knives off of planes. Also, guns and knives exist.

Oh wise one. You dont suppose that there HASN'T been a shoe bomb threat in the US in 6 years because of the way TSA screens shoes? If i were a terrorist i wouldn't stuff explosives in my shoes because TSA is looking for that type of consealment. And other countries are not practicing this "shoe carnival" for the reason that these terrorists are attacking AMERICA... get it?

"Oh wise one. You dont suppose that there HASN'T been a shoe bomb threat in the US in 6 years because of the way TSA screens shoes?"

No, I don't. When the shoe carnival was not mandatory in the US, there were no shoe bombings. In countries with no shoe carnival today, there are no shoe bombings. The fact is that no one, anywhere, has used shoes as a delivery device for explosives since Reid, regardless if whether or how their shoes were screened.

"If i were a terrorist i wouldn't stuff explosives in my shoes because TSA is looking for that type of consealment. And other countries are not practicing this "shoe carnival" for the reason that these terrorists are attacking AMERICA... get it?"

Nonsense. Terrorism is a worldwide phenomenon not limited to those who would harm the US. If shoes were such a viable delivery mechanism for harming aviation, we'd see them used for that purpose elsewhere. Yet no one, anywhere, has tried to do this since 2001.

Anon sez - "So West how many of them were required to take off their shoes or voluntarily surrender their water? Or did they get an exception because no one wanted the bad press that would occur."

Every single one of them that went on the trip, followed the SOP. They removed shoes (unless there was a medical reason not to), surrendered any LAG that was not eligible for the medical waivers and were screened just like any other passenger that came through. How are we going to get bad press for applying the SOP equally to all passengers (which is what we are supposed to do!)?

It was fantastic, almost every single one of them smiled through the process, helped each other, the TSOs and even the leaders of the groups get through. More than once I heard them state that they were happy to go through the process and understood that everyone had to be screened (that was not a verbatim statement, it was a distilled statement).

Thank you to all the veterans who have volunteered to defend our nation in times of peace and war. This includes the thousands of veterans who currently work for TSA. I respect and appreciate each and everyone of you.

To all who choose to disgrace this blog post about Veterans Day with whining about other topics – you should be ashamed! You have plenty of opportunities to put forth your viewpoints without stepping on the much needed thank you of our gallant armed forces. You should be thanking the soldiers who gallantly serve your country to defend your right to speak freely.

Jennifer said... To all who choose to disgrace this blog post about Veterans Day with whining about other topics – you should be ashamed!....................I'm one of those veterans Jennifer. Are you saying I have no right to free speech?

If anyone should be ashamed I suggest it's you who is willing to condemn others for using rights they have fought for.

"To all who choose to disgrace this blog post about Veterans Day with whining about other topics – you should be ashamed! You have plenty of opportunities to put forth your viewpoints without stepping on the much needed thank you of our gallant armed forces. You should be thanking the soldiers who gallantly serve your country to defend your right to speak freely."

Considering that veterans fought for the right to speak freely and criticize one's government -- including TSA and its nonsensical policies that make no one safer -- critical comments about TSA are the finest thanks those soldiers can be given.

I spent six years in the U.S. Army, my husband still serves bravely, and many members of my family have or do still serve. Several people have written into a post about Veteran’s Day with comments off topic subjects. That is disgraceful and you all should be ashamed.

You have plenty of opportunities to put forth your viewpoints without stepping on the much needed thank you of our gallant armed forces. You should be thanking the soldiers who gallantly serve your country to defend your right to speak freely.

As a veteran I find nothing wrong with criticizing our government on Veteran's Day. I find the average American just wants veterans to go away as the veterans who served are an unpleasant reminder to civic duty.

Veterans Day celebrations is now observed with the objective of stopping war and fighting in different parts of the world. I believe Veterans should be honored everyday. To truly appreciate the sacrifice from our men in service you should watch a movie called Taking Chance.

Alot of posts here talk about demand clarification on ice rules and liquids and shoes decalring TSA violates there right...well here in reality alot of agencies violate rights. I am a USCG LT...I violate "rights" all the time with warrantless searchs of boats for no other reason than I feel like it. Truth is most people greatly exagerate what their "rights" are as well as inflate their own sense of importance.

People think TSA rules are stupid...so is the infield fly rule and designated hitters. Its TSA bat, TSA ball, TSA rules at the airport...if you don't like the rules don't play the game. You can always ride AMTRAK or drive.

I can't believe anyone is making such a big deal about taking their shoes off. O.k., it is an inconvenience, especially when it's winter and you have cowboy boots on......Would you prefer getting blown up!I believe very strongly in our freedoms. I remember George Orwell! However, I feel it is so rude making denegrating remarks about servicemen and women. No matter what, they gave all! Would you have that courage?

"I can't believe anyone is making such a big deal about taking their shoes off. O.k., it is an inconvenience, especially when it's winter and you have cowboy boots on......Would you prefer getting blown up!"

You do realize that no airplane anywhere in the world has ever been blown up by a shoe bomb? And that the US is the only country with a mandatory shoe carnival? And that the mandatory shoe carnival makes no sense whatsoever, since no one anywhere is trying to use shoes to blow up planes?

People think TSA rules are stupid...so is the infield fly rule and designated hitters. Its TSA bat, TSA ball, TSA rules at the airport...if you don't like the rules don't play the game. You can always ride AMTRAK or drive.

*********************

When does the next train leave for Hawaii? What freeway goes to Hawaii?

I didn't protect this country so fascists could take it over under the guise of protecting air travel."

This veteran is glad that he served so that you have the right to say that. He also wishes you had more decorum and would have paid tribute to those that are serving currently to defend your right to continue to say things that are (by your own admission) rude.

I do pay tribute to them. But that doesn't include the TSA. It includes those members of the TSA who are in the Guard or Reserves, but it only includes their Guard or Reserve time and not their TSA time.

(It seems Bob is determined to give his buddy the last word - he deleted my response but I'm valiant and will try again)

There is a world of difference between paying tribute and the disingenuous tribute offered by the TSA. By rejecting the TSA's false praise I was not failing to recognize the noble work of veterans, I was instead defending the veterans from being lumped with an organization of the moral worth of the TSA.

It is true, as you assert, that some TSOs have defended this country. They don't do it with their TSA service, they didn't do it with their TSA service. Their military time counts in their favor.

Those who were military before joining the TSA have defended the country before joining the TSA. Those who are in the Guard or Reserve while serving in the TSA defend the USA during their Guard or Reserve duty but not during their TSA duty.

Speaking as someone who values the sacrifices the TSA makes, rejecting the false praise from the TSA is similar to rejecting false praise from any other corrupt source. Suppose Osama bin Laden were to give encouraging comments to the nation's veterans on that day. Would veterans be within their rights to say "shut the (profanity) up!"? I say they would. Which is why I say it to an organization that is as anti-American as Osama is, I say it to the TSA.

Ayn sez - "(It seems Bob is determined to give his buddy the last word - he deleted my response but I'm valiant and will try again)

There is a world of difference between paying tribute and the disingenuous tribute offered by the TSA. By rejecting the TSA's false praise I was not failing to recognize the noble work of veterans, I was instead defending the veterans from being lumped with an organization of the moral worth of the TSA.

It is true, as you assert, that some TSOs have defended this country. They don't do it with their TSA service, they didn't do it with their TSA service. Their military time counts in their favor.

Those who were military before joining the TSA have defended the country before joining the TSA. Those who are in the Guard or Reserve while serving in the TSA defend the USA during their Guard or Reserve duty but not during their TSA duty.

Speaking as someone who values the sacrifices the TSA makes, rejecting the false praise from the TSA is similar to rejecting false praise from any other corrupt source. Suppose Osama bin Laden were to give encouraging comments to the nation's veterans on that day. Would veterans be within their rights to say "shut the (profanity) up!"? I say they would. Which is why I say it to an organization that is as anti-American as Osama is, I say it to the TSA."

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. Even if you dislike the source or question their motives, the sentiment can be honest from their point of view. Just because YOU think the agency does nothing to protect the homeland, does mean you are right. I have many opinions about things that the woman proves to me are wrong on a regular basis (trust me, I could have the facts in black and white and still be proven wrong sometimes). I have the opposite opinion from you, I think that most of the employees that come to work try to do the best they can in the system given to them to prevent damage or death to the flying public. Regardless of how we feel aout certain rules, or procedures or people that we work for, most of us take this job seriously. You do not, and that is entirely your right, but to imply that the agency is insincere in wishing the best to all veterans, is sad on your part. It shows a willingness to put your own desires and arguments ahead of paying tribute to those that defend (or have defended) your right to dissent. You are completely wrong to say that the agency is giving false praise, it is merely paying a basic tribute to those that have been before. The situation you sadly tried to hold up about OBL is weak and pathetic. It is so weak that I am not even going to honor it with further argument or reasoning. Suffice to say that TSA made a good faith gesture to give a small mention of the military members past and present and you tried to turn it into your own little soapbox to preach from, and that is a bad mark on you, not us.

Ayn R. Key said...I say they would. Which is why I say it to an organization that is as anti-American as Osama is, I say it to the TSA.------------------------

Ayn, I take exception to your comments. We all know that you are a serious TSA hater, but to allude that those who serve their country by working with the TSA should be ashamed of their service is ridiculous. Do you also believe this of those who are in other federal service agencies? The FBI, Secret Service, IRS, Federal Air Marshalls, The Department of Agriculture, or any one of a hundred other federal agencies?

We have no reason to be ashamed of our service, and much to be proud of. We work long and hard hours, spend a great deal of time training, endure less than healthy work conditions, deal with a hundred different issues or problems every day, and put our lives on the line attempting to find the harmful devices that may be trying to make their way onto civil aviation aircraft.

Your comments here prove beyond any doubt that you do not know much about who we are or what we do. Only that we are a minor inconvenience to you and those who agree with your point of view, a minor inconvenience that you would prefer not to deal with. The TSA didn’t drive planes into buildings, we didn’t invent liquid explosives, we don’t kill anyone or do anything more than delay a few folks for the sake of the safety of those they may fly with. You provide us here with $100 worth of grief for what may be termed as a 10cent problem.

You and 1,999,999 other passengers each day fly commercial aircraft in this country. Even if you do not see the value of the TSO’s service, the vast majority of the others do. Time to get over yourself and realize that in the grand scheme of things you are a squeaky cog.

...I violate "rights" all the time with warrantless searchs of boats for no other reason than I feel like it. Truth is most people greatly exagerate..

Who is this person? Talk about people exagerating their importantance. The discussion went in one direction, however, how did this not illicit some response fr someone! Nothing since mid December. Is it over?

As one who made a comment in the middle of this discussion concerning taking off one's shoes etc. and other 'rules' that might not make sense to some, I would love to know what anyone thinks of this situation that occured on Dec. 25th. This blog originally started out as a Veterans Day thank you that quickly took a turn to debating the TSA's rules and its' intent. Well now we have some new rules. Incredibly ridiculous rules. No getting up in last hour of flight, no going to bathroom in last hour....... Oh, I really feel safe now.

many people hate the TSA and their policies (sometimes rightfully so), I think that to add snarky comments either insulting the TSA and/or asking irrevelant questions on this post is stupid. Asking about why boots need to be removed, though, or other questions related with being in the military and being screened by TSA, however, is fine.

I am a lifetime military veteran, I have 6 extensive combat deployments and 3 short deployments. I have sold my soul for my country and have given, blood sweat and tears to keep American citizens safe.

TSA it is a disgrace for you to place up a happy veterans day memo. Over 18 congressional committees have recently found that this organization causes more harm than good and is a breach into every American's constitutional rights. It is an INSULT for you to thank me for what I have done or any veteran for that matter. TSA is just as much an enemy as any terror cell or Somalian militia organization.