Actually, the first part, where the company/Devs not getting money is not what the big publishers are saying. It's what the analysts and market watchers are saying. It doesn't hurt the publishers as much as they (the publishers) are claiming, but all the bankruptcies and studio shuttering is in part (not ALL of it, see rising costs of game making) is a side effect of the used game sales. Used games HURT developers. Mainly because they don't know that their game is popular as a secondary side effect. Most Publishers don't care that a game sold twice as much as they are getting in terms of cash, because they aren't seeing that cash.

Then that's an issue with the publisher that more developers need to fight for. Used sales don't hurt. It's like saying a used book sale hurts the author. It really doesn't even if the author isn't making as much money as they could be making. Besides, do you really think developers are going to see any more money from always-on, used game activation fees? I don't, I think publishers are going to see more.

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And I need to clarify, a 'good' game is not a AAA title, like Call of Duty which WILL sell at least 60 million copies world wide. A good game is like the Darksiders series, which has promise, can be better, but just didn't make enough money to get traction as a AAA.

That's an issue of opinion. I thought the Darksiders series was a blatant rip-off of various other games that was shockingly blatant. The fact that it got a sequel is a shock to me. Look at Metro 2033, it got a sequel and it wasn't triple-A.

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The Batman Arkham X is another series that's 'Good' but not Triple A category (despite it being a phenomenal game.) It sold in excess (at least count) of 10 million copies total (that's both games) but that's not enough to make it 'AAA' class.

That actually hurts your argument. The Arkham games are on their third one. They seem to be doing just fine.

In point of fact it's the triple A games like Diablo 3 and whatnot that seem to be pushing this whole always-online thing. So if publishers keep stabbing their own games in the foot maybe we'll see a resurgence in less funded but superior titles.

Also, remember that market analysts are often wrong. Remember when they said no one would buy a Western gmae? Remember Red Dead Redemption?

Does anyone think the "Steambox" console will have any sort of an impact on the console market?

It all depends on if it ever comes out. I know they've said it's "later this year" but Valve is notorious for releasing a product when they deem it ready (see Half Life 3). As for an effect? I think it'll have a nominal effect unless they advertise the hell out of it. So far we just know that they're doing testing on the things here in a couple of months. They've not discussed full details about the system.

Not well. The last debacle with an EA rep saying that the console is utter shit doesn't help, especially since EA has no games in development for the console. Add to it the number of complaints about the handset losing battery power within four hours of consistent playing and you're going to have trouble meeting demands on a casual market.

Does anyone think the "Steambox" console will have any sort of an impact on the console market?

It's not even in the running. IF I understand correctly, all it will do is allow you to use your Steam products (Like games and their live TV stream service) on your TV. Which is cute, but most people already have a PC that does that, if they have Steam.

Personally, I'd like to see a resurgence in PC gaming and I think that the Steambox Console might help that.

What do you mean? PC gaming is stronger now than it has ever been. And better yet, it's getting BETTER.

Just about every game that isn't a single console exclusive, and even some of them, have come onto the PC in some fashion. Not to mention that there are plenty of games that don't ever make it to the Consoles.

You're not going to find a Civilization game on the Wii U or the XBox, for example. Starcraft is only for PC. Diablo 3 came out for PC first, and just recently Sony snagged them for their new console. There are plenty of games, a lot of which are on Steam that you will not find on the consoles.

Most MMOs are still PC only.

So, I challenge you on this. Who is saying PC gaming is dying, because from where I'm sitting, it's going AWESOME.

No one gets to bitch about game prices unless they lived in australia when games were routinely about $120 for a new game for a good couple of years. Please do not start the '$60 dollars is too much' complaints again, im sick of it. And its the same higher prices for a lot of people in the UK as well. 60 dollars isnt that bad. Even now here name games are still about $90 and our dollar is equal with the US dollar right now.

As far as the console war, its all about what games you want. Want different style games and a greater focus on single player, get a playstation. Want multiplayer and shooters, get an xbox. Want rpgs, good looking games, and indie games, get a PC.

On the controller: The design is ugly, and still not usable for me, I have small hands, I cant use a xbox controller anyway. It also seems to have developed hardware specifically towards shooters, and little else, especially with focus on the triggers etc. The colored letters look horrible honestly as well, very out of place.

On the console: Their main focus seems to be TV and entertainment. Except for the fact that it seems it will only work reliably in America when its released. I know its been announced that for here in Australia we also need to buy something else that hasnt been announced yet to make it work so that makes about 90 percent of their presentation worthless for those of us here.About having to be online at least once a day, its almost as bad as always online because they havent announced what will happen if you dont log on once a day. That merged with the fact that if the new needed kinect CANNOT be turned off, if it doesnt detect motion your console goes to sleep, aka its always watching and listening and youre always online, and now supposedly has built in recording software = hackers dream. I also dont appreciate that it will 'learn' its users and track you so that it can easily and instantly swap between screens for people.The specs are lower overall then the ps4's anyway. On top of that with blu-ray they now have to pay a group of companies to use that software, one of which is sony. I may as well bring up now that companies often sell consoles at a loss.Why on earth did they call it the 'Xbox One' of all things?As far as used games go, a big problem with that is that that and the ease of piracy these days is doing serious damage to the industry. I agree that removing used games all together is a bad thing as it is cheaper and better for people, but I am completely for the idea of having to pay for the ability to use a used game as it gives developers back some money. Years ago they could release new games and new copies of them for ten years and still be making a profit and use that to fund OTHER game projects, these days games they only get profit from for a year, if they are incredibly lucky, 18 months. They deserve to make money from their work.If the kinect is nessiary, why not build it in rather then just having it as an additional part? Seems frustrating and costly.Microsoft didnt learn from the past. Sony tried the full entertainment system with the ps3, and it didnt work, and now they are going back to whats going to get them their most money, games and gamers, and microsoft seems to be falling into the entertainment but no games pot hole.

On the note of piracy, did you guys hear about the game where you play as a game studio, and if you have pirated the game, in the game your own games get pirated? very clever way to look at it.

No one gets to bitch about game prices unless they lived in australia when games were routinely about $120 for a new game for a good couple of years. Please do not start the '$60 dollars is too much' complaints again, im sick of it. And its the same higher prices for a lot of people in the UK as well. 60 dollars isnt that bad. Even now here name games are still about $90 and our dollar is equal with the US dollar right now.

I see the PS4 controller is as ugly as ever. I'll never understand how they kept that stick layout 4 console generations.

The only thing that will convince me to buy an X1 is exclusives. Yes, even with the silly lock outs and always online stuff, if it has games I can't get on PC, that I want, then I'm interested. And they claim to have 15 exclusives within the first year with 8 of them being new IPs.

8 new exclusive intellectual properties. Say what you will about always online (and there is a LOT to say) that has my ears pricking damn it, and if half of them catch my interest that's reason enough to get an X1 for me, since they'll be guaranteed to have sequels. And that's not counting the other 7 exclusives.

No one gets to bitch about game prices unless they lived in australia when games were routinely about $120 for a new game for a good couple of years. Please do not start the '$60 dollars is too much' complaints again, im sick of it. And its the same higher prices for a lot of people in the UK as well. 60 dollars isnt that bad. Even now here name games are still about $90 and our dollar is equal with the US dollar right now.

Helps to note that back when new games were 120, the exchange rate was much better. 60 USD and 120 AUD were about equal to each other. New games haven't gone past the hundred dollar mark in years.

Another of my downloads just quit (and I don't download a lot) at like ten meg to go. The infrastructure isn't there yet, but no you can't expect the morons who manage these companies to understand that. It took over half a century for everyone in the US to get electricity, what makes them think everyone has broadband internet in less than half a century, much less.

I also love how they're all ignoring the looming specter of spectrum crunch. Wait until you run out then the internet will crash! MWAHHAHAHAHA!

I played video games for twenty years this August without the God-damned internet...

Expensive because of the way the games market is handled here. It goes through Europe and then to Aus as opposed to going straight through the distrbutors. And new games if they are still popular still hit 100 dollars on launch day, eg CoD, Assassins creed etc.

And im the same as you, Ill buy a console if I think it will last and if it has games I want on it. Although with xbox one, I think I may end up changing that. I wouldnt want that kinect system anywhere near me honestly, even if it does have good exclusives. Not worth potentially giving up my privacy.

I find it ironic they are relying on infrastructure when the US is the country that spends the LEAST on infrastructure of any 'first world' nation. We aren't even in the top 10?

I know SEVERAL DOZEN guys who buy a system for deployments (yes, it is a miltary issue). You don't get constant online connections in the Gulf, haze grey and underway or in the middle of BFE.

I know a lot of folks who don't have constant connections. Particularly when you have ISPs looking to squeeze every frigging dime out of the consumer. Bandwidth caps are a big issue, and as you add more and more and MORE connection requirements, you're eating into the consumer's bandwidth limit with some providers.

That doesn't even cover throttling. I KNOW comcast is throttling my connection. I find it very very very strange that when I use Apple TV, Netflix or Hulu that it requires two to three more time to stream even a SD show than it does for the same HD show on Comcast. Do you think a 'central hub' like the Xbox gets excluded from that? No. I encounter the problem when I use my Xbox's Netflix, Hulu or Amazon apps.

That doesn't even begin to cover the spectrum crunch issues that Inkidu brought up.

The worse part? We can't even sue MS when these issues come up. The current TOS for Xbox live requires Arbitration. Companies rarely lose big arbitration cases.

The Xbox One will not require always online. They confirmed that a couple times in the articles that I linked in the original post. Although there might be a requirement of getting online once to activate your game to your account - no one has confirmed or denied this yet. (At least not yesterday while I was reading the material.)

The quote: "No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet,"

Here's one for you guys.. the Xbox One has a nickname by the internet already - XbOne HAHA!!!

The Xbox One will not require always online. They confirmed that a couple times in the articles that I linked in the original post. Although there might be a requirement of getting online once to activate your game to your account - no one has confirmed or denied this yet. (At least not yesterday while I was reading the material.)

The quote: "No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet,"

Here's one for you guys.. the Xbox One has a nickname by the internet already - XbOne HAHA!!!

Ah..thank you. that is something..

Find anything about the 'activation fee' for used games. I know a lot of my friend's kids who like to run back and forth between their houses and use one another's games in co-op mode.

Find anything about the 'activation fee' for used games. I know a lot of my friend's kids who like to run back and forth between their houses and use one another's games in co-op mode.

I ask because your google fu is clearly better than mine.

The activation fee is per account.

So a new game will activate on your account but the moment someone else tries to load that game on their account they will have to pay an activation fee. No word on what those fees will be.

They didn't give a lot of details but essentially what we can gather is that if you log into your account on somebody's Xbox then you can play your game anywhere you log in. However, if they log into their account then they cannot use your game without paying an activation fee. (The obvious exception being games that allow co-op game play - as long as you log in they can be a "guest" on your game on the same console.)

*edit: Which also explains why you might need to be online at least once to activate your games.

The Xbox One will not require always online. They confirmed that a couple times in the articles that I linked in the original post. Although there might be a requirement of getting online once to activate your game to your account - no one has confirmed or denied this yet. (At least not yesterday while I was reading the material.)

The quote: "No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet,"

Here's one for you guys.. the Xbox One has a nickname by the internet already - XbOne HAHA!!!

That's just as bad from where I stand. If I need an internet to be plugged in who knows what it's let trickling. I'm on an allowance. I can be on for a bit or off, totally off.

I'm tired of it. It's really on for greed. I give it two weeks before someone has modded it. :\

That's just as bad from where I stand. If I need an internet to be plugged in who knows what it's let trickling. I'm on an allowance. I can be on for a bit or off, totally off.

I'm tired of it. It's really on for greed. I give it two weeks before someone has modded it. :\

I think the need of an internet connection to register your game is terrible but it's not as bad as always on.

I can't be certain but I assume that you just need to get online to register the game once, then you probably need to have an internet connection to register the xbox, and probably for updates, as well any online service will need internet connection.

That does not mean you need to leave it on all the time. It just needs to be online periodically.

Of course this is MicroSux so you never know... Until we actually get those boxes out in the hands of the general populace it's difficult to say. They could all secretly be mind control devices. *winks*

I think the need of an internet connection to register your game is terrible but it's not as bad as always on.

I can't be certain but I assume that you just need to get online to register the game once, then you probably need to have an internet connection to register the xbox, and probably for updates, as well any online service will need internet connection.

That does not mean you need to leave it on all the time. It just needs to be online periodically.

Of course this is MicroSux so you never know... Until we actually get those boxes out in the hands of the general populace it's difficult to say. They could all secretly be mind control devices. *winks*

They're both probably doing it in some form or fashion. Oh well I always wait on consoles anyway to see if the library will be good. The newest CoD game is hardly a selling point for me. I mean I like some of the CoD stuff, but it's hardly a console launcher for me.

That way when I pinch my pennies I can turn it into a PC in which case I'll be able to play most Xbox games anyway. :|

Q: Does Xbox One require an “always on” Internet connection?A: No, it does not have to be always connected, but Xbox One does require a connection to the Internet. We’re designing Xbox One to be your all-in-one entertainment system that is connected to the cloud and always ready. We are also designing it so you can play games and watch Blu-ray movies and live TV if you lose your connection.Q: How do consumers benefit by being connected to the cloud?A: The cloud makes every experience better and more accessible. Because Xbox One is powered by the cloud:Your games have more power available to create new gameplay, persistent worlds, and deeper experiences.Your system and games can update automatically, so you shouldn’t have to wait for downloads or updates.Your games and entertainment are stored and saved in the cloud, so you can access them anytime, from any Xbox One.*Start a game, movie, or TV show on one console and finish exactly where you left off on another.You can play multiplayer games with your friends, stream movies or TV shows right away, and enjoy the community and social features of Xbox Live.Xbox One can recognize you, log you in and tailor your home screen just for you.You can discover what your friends are playing, watching and listening to if they choose to share.These are just a few examples of how customers benefit from our platform being connected to the Internet. It brings the future of TV and games to our consumers—and it’s designed for today and the decade ahead.* Subject to content geographical restrictions.Q: When will Xbox One launch and in what markets?A: Xbox One will launch in markets around the world later this year. We’ll have more to share later.Q: Can I use my current gamertag on Xbox One and will my Gamerscore and Achievements transfer?A: Yes. Your current Xbox Live Gamertag will stay with you on Xbox One if you choose to keep it, and your hard-earned Gamerscore and Achievements will indeed carry over from Xbox 360.Q: Will Xbox One be backward compatible with my existing games?A: Xbox One hardware is not compatible with Xbox 360 games. We designed Xbox One to play an entirely new generation of games—games that are architected to take full advantage of state-of-the-art processors and the infinite power of the cloud. We care very much about the investment you have made in Xbox 360 and will continue to support it with a pipeline of new games and new apps well into the future.Q: Will Xbox One allow players to trade in, purchase and play pre-owned games? A: We are designing Xbox One to enable customers to trade in and resell games. We’ll have more details to share later.Q: Will my current Xbox Live Gold membership work with Xbox One or will I have to buy a new one?A: You do not need to buy a new Xbox Live Gold membership. Your current membership will work on both Xbox 360 and Xbox One.Q: Why require Kinect with every Xbox One?A: The all new Kinect is now an essential and integrated part of the platform. By having it as a consistent part of every Xbox One, game and entertainment creators can build experiences that assume the availability of voice, gesture and natural sensing, leading to unrivaled ease of use, premium experiences and interactivity for you.Q: Do I need to have a specific cable or satellite TV provider to watch live TV on Xbox?A: Our goal is to enable live TV through Xbox One in every way that it is delivered throughout the world, whether that’s television service providers, over the air or over the Internet, or HDMI-in via a set top box (as is the case with many providers in the US). The delivery of TV is complex and we are working through the many technologies and policies around the world to make live TV available where Xbox One is available.Q: Xbox One is a more powerful product compared to Xbox 360, but does it also use more power?A: No. By providing multiple power states in Xbox One, we’ve balanced energy efficiency with functionality. We’ve taken a completely different approach to how Xbox One consumes power. It only uses the power it needs at that particular moment for the task at hand.

On the Used Games thing:

Major Nelson has issued a statement concerning used games.

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We know there is some confusion around used games on Xbox One and wanted to provide a bit of clarification on exactly what we’ve confirmed today. While there have been many potential scenarios discussed, today we have only confirmed that we designed Xbox One to enable our customers to trade in and resell games at retail.Beyond that, we have not confirmed any specific scenarios.Another piece of clarification around playing games at a friend’s house – should you choose to play your game at your friend’s house, there is no fee to play that game while you are signed in to your profile.

Here's another wonderful little tidbit, and I'm going to paste it here, because I can't link the damn site apparently.

Quote from: From the Gametrailer's SideMission Blogs by Kevin Chieng

Independent developers looking to self-publish their titles on the Xbox One will not be able to do so, it has been revealed. Instead, these developers will have to seek a publishing deal in order to get their games onto Xbox Live for the next-gen console, either with Microsoft Games Studios or a third party partner. An alternative is to release games as Xbox Live Indie Games, a marketplace that has not proven to be successful for developers.Speaking to Shacknews, Microsoft general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms Matt Booty confirms that developers will require a publisher to have their games on Xbox Live, stating that, "as of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have.""I would also expect that for this new generation, that we're going to continue to explore new business models and new ways of surfacing content," says Booty. "But Microsoft Studios is a publisher that works with a wide range of partners, as do a lot of other people, to bring digital content to the box."Microsoft's stance on indie game development is very different compared to its competitors. Nintendo and Sony allow developers to self-publish through the eShop and PSN respectively. Steam on PC has also proven to be a popular avenue for indie games.How do you feel about this barrier for independent developers? XBLA has found some great games like Super Meat Boy and many others, but if game creators can't have control of their own games, we may see less quality titles on the Xbox One.

So no more games like Dishwasher/Dishwasher: Vampire Smile, Limbo, Fez, Dust: An Elysian Tale and several others I'm not remembering and are barely scratching the surface of what's available on XBox Live? Talk about stabbing in the face.

"You don't have to be connected all the time... but yeah, you really kind of do. Cloud for the Cloud god!"

No backwards compatibility for bullshit reasons. Seriously, so you're either going to resell me all my games or your not going to support them, neither of which I like. They say they're going to, but they're not going to do it forever. If they cared they'd make it backwards compatible. There's no reason for me to go out and get an Xbox One.

And there's PS1&2 games I still play, but most consumers, not us, still have their old boxes, and will keep them set up. So they can still play their games of choice.

So, my questions are this: If the used game market goes out, as is the fear of many people from hearing this news. What happens to the "old boxes" then?

What if people can't access a private merchant who sells the old products? What happens to them? Are they just SoL? Not every system lasts forever, parts and even entire systems need to be replaced.

Are you to tell me that it's just "Go look on eBay, which can rip you off, or good luck."?

Personally, I think the greed has gone completely to their heads and gaming isn't what it once was. However, I agree with other peoples' opinions. Let them continue to shoot themselves in the foot. When gaming goes only to those who can afford the ridiculous prices and sales plummet, we'll be the ones laughing then.