(NewsTarget) This interview is an excerpt from Kevin Gianni's Renegade Water Secrets, which can be found at (http://www.renegadewatersecrets.com) . In this excerpt, Iain Trousdell considers the spirit of water and talks about the great influences in water study.

Renegade Water Secrets with Iain Trousdell, founder of New Zealand's Living Water Institute.

Iain: What's the spirit of water? Does water have a spirit? As we know, it's somewhat conscious. It certainly has life and it's certainly got physical quality, but what's its spirit, and this is my own personal experience, the spirit of water may be the same thing as the real spirit of humanity.

Kevin: Wow.

Iain: And that's what led me to "maybe water's the original human being." We shouldn't be rushing around searching for fossilized bones. That's of interest, but we look for fossilized bones only if we think a human being is only a physical being. But if we think a human being has, of course, a physical body which is 70 percent water which should alert us to the fact that we might have something to do with water, then there's life in it because, "hello", we're alive. And when somebody dies, they don't have life, so therefore there's life. We're conscious, more or less. Hopefully, we get more conscious and look to nature as our teacher and there's something indefinable beyond consciousness that directs consciousness which is the spirit of a person, and I believe -- well, I don't believe, I know -- water has all these as well. And we're getting backed up more and more by scientific research out of universities, which is fantastic.

Kevin: Now, what do you think of the work of someone like Dr. Masaru Emoto?

Iain: Well, Emoto's done fantastic educational work. I haven't met him personally, but John Wilkes has at various conferences and I think the world will look back on Emoto's work and thank him very much for his educational work and the way he's alerted people, especially in their feelings to the beauty of water and the sensitivity of water.

Kevin: Right.

Iain: I think in terms of the scientific work, there are many groups that have been working scientifically with his concept, especially out of Rudolf Steiner's ideas for 80 years now, so George Adams, who in the 1950's was working with these concepts mathematically developing mathematics -- highly complex mathematics -- off the shapes of living things to show that nature operates mathematically with a higher degree of precision and that was taken further by Lawrence Edwards who worked for 40 years from 1960 looking at bugs and eggs and their specific mathematical shapes in relation to their levels of health, so there's been a vast amount of work which part of my group's task is to let the world know about it, because it's just been done by small numbers of people working privately.

Kevin: You've met...

Iain: Healing Water Institute's aim, one of our aims is just to let people know about this fantastically rich body of information and method that's been built up over an idea.

Kevin: You've mentioned Steiner a couple times. Why don't you explain to people who may not know who that is and what kind of impact he's had?

Iain: Yes, he's like Carl Jung or Einstein. He's at that sort of level. His work is very, very modern and he was maybe a century ahead of himself, so people now more and more are getting to understand him as the thinking becomes more fluid and less mineral like and those people open up to concepts about spirits as an entity, not as an actual thing. Spirit is not just an abstract wishy-washy concept, but is a sort of source of creation and you'll see that with Rupert Sheldrake's work with morphological fields, he... I don't know quite what he intended with that work himself, except to note to people that there are sources of creativity. So Rudolf Steiner predated a lot of this way back. He was born in 1861 and died in 1925 and he was a leading scientist and an artist and spent his life looking into the deeper realities of nature and human beings in order to create an amazing body of knowledge and method for coming out with what is now called biomimicry. So he was behind the Waldorf schools which is now the biggest alternative education movement in the world with over a thousand schools around the world.

He is behind biodynamics which is now taking off in many places around the world as another method of agriculture. We've got permaculture, we've got organic farming, we've got the conventional ones where you're basically using more armament refuse to work on your field and there's a fourth one termed bionamics which is now taking off in India to such an extent that it's thought that by the Gandhi movement there, within ten years every village in India will be operating bionamically.

Kevin: Really?

Iain: Yeah, there's a marvelous DVD that people should get called How to Save the World. You can get it at (www.howtosavetheworld.co.nz) from Cloud South Films and it's won one of the section awards for the Jackson Hall Film Festival, Environmental Film Festival from last year, 2007 and it's a marvelous movie, (www.howtosavetheworld.co.nz) and bionamics, very important method of agriculture takes organic farming several steps further here.

So every aspect of life, in actual fact, Rudolf Steiner was as Christian to them and provided answers, practical answers and people set to work doing good.

Kevin: How did it influence what you have done?

Iain: Well, Rudolf Steiner, one of his pupils -- he had pupils who he taught how to renew their thinking and how to renew their perception, so from my point of view, he was way ahead of good years, he was also someone with that sort of nature as well. So he had a very strong life with a great deal of clarity and in Asia, he would have been counted also as a master. In fact, in India, the talk about Maharishi Steiner, he had this whole inner life as well and he had some people who came to him who said "Please help me develop what you have," and one of these fellows was George Adams who was a brilliant chemist and mathematician from Cambridge University. And this George Adams then proceeded to take up this mathematical study of nature amongst other things and John Wilkes was his pupil and also his colleague because John is a world academy sculptor from London and so he understood enough of the nature mathematics, path code mathematics to work with George to make some of these early surfaces in the late 50's and early 60's where these mathematical surfaces, if you move water over those surfaces, the thought was that it would increase that water's capacity to support life.

Unfortunately, George Adams died in 1963 and so that work has not been taken very much further but we have done some of that in association with Flow Forms. So it sort of goes back, Rudolf Steiner and George Adams, John Wilkes plus other people.

Kevin: And you also talk about Viktor Schauberger, as well.

Iain: Yes Schauberger's marvelous because Steiner goes back to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, who's this universal genius from Germany, and he was so interesting that the American and Psychological Association or some such group, about ten years ago, did a study on all of the known historical figures and they had a method of working out IQs from it and the person who had the highest IQ in history, was this man Goethe. He was a primer minister of one of the states in Germany in about 1800, or in the late 1700's when he was only 25 who's basically Newton and Shakespeare rolled up in one for the German culture.

Kevin: Okay.

Iain: And he had a science which is called Phenomenal Logical Science where you develop the human being as the scientific instrument and developed a high level of objectivity and observation and thought and so it's a whole world of science which has unfortunately been passed by by Dicarthian and Utaniun reduction of science, but it's a science we need to pick up and Rudolf Steiner did that and developed that. So Schauberger also took his start from Goethe and he developed phenomenal capacities for observation of nature and learned off his own living thinking, he created these various technologies which apparently are capable of producing energy without pollution and many other aspects which are being worked on by people now in Sweden and Australia.

Kevin: Right, and so you're... I would guess basically on what you have said which is that you're model of scientific development is looking at nature first and not taking a reductionist type of perspecive.

Iain: Exactly, I think the reductionist approach is of great use. The point is it's like running a business: a business running you or you running the business.

Iain: And it's the same with the reductionist thinking which breaks things down into smaller and smaller areas and becomes very very clever about it. Fortunately, in the last few decades, we've broken through to the whole thing of science equality and we've got to a point now where the Tibetan Masters knew is what modern science is beginning to enter as well. But we're still setting up a kilometer wide instrument in the Swiss Alps to measure quality. It's just we'd forgotten and there's a whole story behind that too, going back to Galileo. We've forgotten that the human being can be an object, an instrument, of knowledge and so we don't trust human thinking and worsen science and we have all of these systems set up to check it, forgetting that it's human thinking at the beginning that didn't trust itself and set up all the systems. So it's a very interesting, complicated woven tapestry of leading ourselves down and down a path into this destructive world that we've created for ourselves.

Kevin: Right.

Iain: There is another type of thinking and this other type of thinking can come up with solutions just as well, different solutions, I believe.

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