UMECUnited Mining Exploration Commission: A group of friends playing JumpGate-- "a MMORPG that launched smoothly, breaks from fantasy character setting, emphasizes PvP, and is the first persistent world space simulator that nobody talks about." ~Scorch

OT: I got the Freelancer beta today! Wohoo! Screenshots Inside!
I am so damned excited, because I just got the beta of a game I've been waiting almost five years for, Freelancer. I just spent about eight hours straight playing the game, something I've not done for a VERY long time, even for Jumpgate. This game is incredibly awesome. I took fifteen screenshots of the game, all of which you can see by clicking here.

I'm working on a review for the game, so I can't reveal everything, but I'd be happy to answer what I can if anyone has any questions. I'll be busy for a while, so don't expect a quick response. Suffice it to say, I probably won't be playing Jumpgate for a week or two. Thanks.

one thing is sure:
they have a bigger/better art-department than nd ;)_________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace

...Probably something like 30% of
their message board database is full of mouse/joystick discussion
threads. Anything you would care to read or write about the topic
has already been written and read many, many, many times. Feel
free to read through some of the old arguments and see if you can
find something to say about the topic that hasn't been said before.

There is really no point in discussing it any more. There won't be
joystick support in the game, no matter how much people ask for
it. The game isn't designed for it, and at this point, it's probably way
too late to change that. If that is going to be a problem for you,
you can always vote with your wallet. Buy something else.

Finally, I would say that it is misleading at best to call Freelancer
a space sim. This is not a game that seeks to simulate the
experience of space flight to any significant degree. Freelancer
is more like an action/adventure game that takes place in space.
People who have played it liken the combat model to playing a first
person shooter. Freelancer is intended to be "the Diablo of space
sims."

Personally, I'm planning on buying it just out of curiousity.
Although, I just read a report by someone who played a PR
pre-release copy and said that the mouse flight control is
pitch-inverted and there is no option to flip it over. :-/

Adrenaline Vault Preview
okay, that guy's been hanging around in too many forum flame wars. Why's he so hung up on the lack of joystick support? Is it a point and click or isn't it? doesn't sound like it promotes a "space-sim" reality but only the illusion of such. what a cop out.

anyways, when critiquing a game, don't bloody call it a genre it isn't...(privateer and the wingcommander games were based on joystick support; trying to have your cake and eat it too is dumb dumb dumb)...Also, as far as the removal of said support, WarCraft 3 went through a complete change and nobody bitched (much or long) so what's this crazed fixation on the flame wars as some kind of point of reference??? THAT'S what i don't get.

that's like saying Battlecruiser sucks because Derek Smart is a professional troll. lol. talk about faulty logic...sounds like this reporter got sucked down to the troll level and got beaten by experience. (clarification: BC sucks and all it's variations even without DS' crap)

*shrug*
Remember, i am not required to force myself to read a badly done review more than once or even past the bit where i winced. If some FreeLancer/Avault fanboi flames me for misunderstanding an article/post/whatever that's geared for a "sales pitch"/"marketting tool"/"News Article" they're a hypocrite; A bad review doesn't need to be picked apart and dissected -- it's merely a badly done review

however there is another space-game i will buy for sure without taking a look bevore (X2 annyone?)_________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace

"Ethel the Ardvaark" <postmaster@beoutdoors.net> wrote in message
news:92ba3e7.0302071306.58ce5d35@posting.google.com...
> http://www.lancersreactor.com/t/
>
> It's been a long time coming. I hope it was worth the wait. This is
> the *true* sequel to Privateer.

*ding*

Jeez! It's single player! God damn I thought every one of these new games
were sucky MMOG's. Now it's interesting!

/M

Miles Osborne wrote:

>
>I think you can do multiplayer co-op.

No its Single Player and Multiplayer. Multiplayer involves either
cooping or just being in the same game as others, PVP and non PVP
options both supported) Multiplayer doesn't have the SP campaign that's
the main difference. The server is persistant.

The beta supported up to 128 players online, previews have been a little
unclear on this dso I guess we will all have to wait to see :)

Oh, BTW, our Veloxi came up with a review for WarGamer almost a week ago. here it is. In the introduction he repeats this bit, "space sim/role playing game/adventure"...First off, a space sim is supposed to be not unlike a flight sim, right? RIGHT? Secondly, a RPG is supposed to be about attributes & skills, right? *shrug* Lastly, an adventure connotes a pretty much LINEAR scripting. (ie. a SP campaign)

the only good thing i ever admired about Privateer One was the freeform nature of the gameplay, the space-sim flight model and the lack of crappy RPG elements and linear storyline....Privateer Two sucked because it removed the best elements of the game for me.

So...Looks like FreeLancer is the true sequel to Privateer 2, which i thought sucked. No offense to the reviewer, because the rest of the article just goes on to prove the game sucks REALLY WELL.

Veloxi wrote:

Ships and equipment are further broken into levels and classes. For example, that heavy fighter a player has had his eye on might be available at level twelve, but those class seven guns won't be available until level sixteen, and would be too big for the size six gun mounts regardless.

now, THAT'S interesting...the same class/level thing could be equivalent to JumpGate's "RPG" levelling requirements, no? Though, the emphasis starts to make me wonder on the level of player skill restrictions that turns the entire game into a "point and click"...

Another thing lacking is the comparison/contrast to O.R.B. and other SOTA rts games out there that allow for true orbital dynamics (asteroids that actually move around a planet or whatever)

and the distances. the distances. how to balance it...in ORB it was just too damned huge and the lack of "time compression x10" sucked -- With Hegemonia (or whatever the hell it was called) the solar system was stupidly laid out with mars right next to saturn and the same distance to earth. dumb ass)

Besides, who really cared about "landing on a planet" if yer confined to a scripted point and click base...hell, E&B's idea was even worse...lots and lots of "freeform" that turned out to be a timesinked point and click. Besides, who's really interested in a sci-fi EQ unless the devs in question can replicate the old "Elder Scrolls 1" feel.

*shrug* Anything less well done will allow JumpGate's lack of sector object dynamics and poorly balanced gameplay to be overlooked...

WTF seems some "know-it-all" moron on USENET is arguing about the definition of "Space Sim"...Jeeezuz. talk about waffle city. Where's my maple syrup? He goes to such bloody great lengths to fudge i'm amazed he's avoided making any point at all and still looks like he's crystal clear.
whatta moron. He's fudged so much nobody's gonna blink when he does a 180

Basically, what he's arguing with is people (like me) who think FreeLance is trying to be too much to too many people and are fucking up visibly with the execution (assuming the lack of joystick is a design flaw instead of a concept issue) What's he's insinuating in a rather slimy fashion is that it's not a flight sim at all, but a point&click game -- But has enough leeway to dock a tow sideways -- ie. he's said fuck all but argue semantics

Milo's First Divine Appearance wrote:

The Freelancer team at Digital Anvil added joystick support and took it back out, not once but *twice* during the last four years. So it's obviously not laziness since they actually did invest the time and effort to do the work.
Muffy: (sean connery voice over): "losers always try their best. winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
I think their decision makes a lot more sense when you realize that (at
least in their own minds) they weren't making a space sim. They were
trying to create a new kind of action oriented game that was set in
space, but yet wasn't primarily about the simulation of flying a space
ship.

Notice the "primarily" docking port for the sideways tow? moron's not saying ANYTHING that he can't fudge later...I doubt he even cares about making sense as long as he can nay-say anyone replying to him for clarification. Fact is, he's lying so much he's assuming noone's going to be able to keep track of his feet when he's tripping...or really care for that matter.

Shame though. i've learnt nothing new from this tool and his fudge adjectives, beyond losers like using slimy adjectives that appear at first to clarify but on reflection water their post down to mean nothing.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Wed Feb 26, 2003 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total

it seems the "full demo" is out there somewhere ;)_________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace

It's not point and click, but it is mouse controlled. The good thing is that your skill is an important factor in combat (unlike E&B for example). The bad thing is that I cannot use my ubar X45 joystick.

As for SP/MP story, well the SP story is pretty straightforward with some freelancing moments (ie "you'll need $45k before you're contacted by the lead NPCs again") and the story in itself it pretty good and epic (ancient alien races, full scale galaxy war, goverment corruption, true love).

One important thing about Freelancer is that it's not a MMORPG - multiplayer is not centralized, you play on player servers (I think game host companies will host a few popular servers, but any player could basicly set up a FL server). You create a character and play it from there - no background story, just freelancing. There's guilds/squads, PvP, a nice market, lots of enemy AI and lots of ships/equipment.

Because the game isn't released until March 4th, I havn't played much MP yet (lack of servers is a limiting factor). I'm pretty sure OV will be featured on BarryWorlds FL server when/if they set it up. :D

Bottomline: It's a very good game and highly addictive. I'll let you know in a month if there's any lasting appeal. ;)

its diablo in space ;)
u play it for hours and hours...
i played over 15 hours the first 24 hours i had it, including 5 hours from 1:00am, when the download ompleted, till 6:00am when i fell asleep while using a tradelane...

well, i gona play it untill my cougar arrives then i trash it and go back to stick-controled games...

right now i need more credits to get that barracuda ... and maybe for some better guns and maybe a misile-launcer... a verry heavy fighter wouldnt be bad eiter, gona check out where i can get a hammerhad or a eagle ... a sabre? where can i get that one? its said to be the best..._________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace

Playing the demo at the moment. It's not exactly point and click though, and since i was operating under the assumption it was i got immediately reminded that i didn't track targets automatically by either "tailing their six" or "aimbots" (which a pure point and click would be assumed to do, correct?)

Which means it's not a RTS type point,click&manage targets (ie. not point&click)...Actually, the BEST analogy i can think up is playing Diablo and using a bow with shift held down. I have yet to try customizing the "turn left/right" buttons (and mouse-move) - That and maybe a few other tweaks might make this feel more like a 2D-FPS, since the anti-newtonian "space opera" flight model isn't space sim material at all (StarWars movie type maneuvering; Plus, it's about as 2 dimensional as they come as far as the larger picture is concerned. Which, when one thinks about it is like Privateer1 of olde.)

Anyways, the base/planet interfaces are identical to the olde Privateer chatter and NPC ship chatter is as well, but the latter has a MARKED improvement that you get insystem chatter spontaneously not only at you but cross talk, especially base clearance. (now if that doesn't stir the old "immersion" juices then there's always, "fly in formation" icon which allows you to tag along with almost anyone as they chatter away.)

not to mention the political ratings are mindboggling in quantity, though the social dynamics are waaaaay too campy when you do face to face stuff on bases/planets. (you feel like everyone's an extra in an "Arnie" movie; "i'll be back.")

Travel is fun. you have normal speed, afterburner, cruise (hyperdrive) and then theres the "superdrive" conduits and finally jumpgates (see below pic)

As for combat? jeezuz. talk about joke city. it was almost comical how i breezed through missions and i never used missiles/nanorepairs/shieldboosters. (enemy shields dropped like knife through butter and their stupid evasion techniques had me giggling)

c1 squid would have these morons for breakfast

definitely a "Diablo-esque" sci-fi space shoot-em up Action/Adventure with some micromanagement needed (ie. not like EnB)

NO WAY IS IT A SPACE 'SIM' THOUGH, WHICH IS A SHAME BECAUSE IT TRIES TO FAKE IT. (which, i'm betting is going to be a major backbreaker for this game...too much work for too little satisfaction of "skill" - the novelty of which will fade pretty darned quick)

at least with privateer there was immersion in the flight model...sorry, but i can't take the flight model seriously (but i will give marks for the cool NPC immersion)

EDIT Ah, yes. i found the mouse-move command. I can see why people wondered about the lack of joystick support when they have such a system. I guess they figured people don't like joystick support because that means the point&click crowd would get turned off. (personally, i think it was a bad call because this is neither point&click nor is it a space-sim...shame is it looks like it could have been both)

with the mouse-move it does feel more like a FPS, and i guess you could call it the ultimate QuakeInSpace

CONCLUSION
This will please neither the point&click nor the spacesim crowd. This game is a FPS of the 'QuakeInSpace' genre with privateer theme.

which reminds me. they disabled the ability to have a reverse mouse Y axis option...which makes you wonder doesn't it?

Microsoft Marketing Rep (paraphrase) wrote:

saaay...let's remove the joystick because people attach a "sim" stigma to those games and our focus groups don't even buy that idea. Oh wait, just got this in from R&D, remove the mouseYaxis and you'll reinforce that idea the game's "good"

Joined: 13 Jun 2002Posts: 54Location: Muffy went off on somebody and all i got was this lousy T-Shirt

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 12:44 pm Post subject:

I just played the demo and I would have to say that's it's a wonderful continuation of the Privateer series (yes, that's what it is) that is plagued by a non-existant flight model and no mining. Edit - seems I needed to read the FAQ, there's mining

And yes, I'm hooked. The Multiplayer has me intrigued because it seems to allow for both the "Quake-type fragfest" and roleplaying. Anyone need a Pirate? The first reports of "point-and-click" interface had me turned off, but now that I've tried it, I see that it's quite smooth. And the possibility of a joystick-contol patch still exists.

It's like Privateer 1, with better graphics._________________Jesus saves, the rest of you take 5d20 damage.

I agree with Razor, it's what Privateer 2 should have been. I can live with the mouse interface, thought I'd rather have use of my JS. Flight model, (what there is of one) reminds me of Priv/Wing Commander. Have had 1 mission that taxed me somewhat (lvl 4 mission) and got pulled out of the trade lanes once by 8 ships and almost died. :) Remember to keep your worth under 26k so the game won't boot you.

I like hailing cargo ships. They tell you what they are carrying and where they are going. Or at least they did until I lowered my rating with all the Trader Factions and now I am KOS. BTW, Pirates get the best ships and equipment in Freelancer.

> So I decided to try the demo, and I don't mind the mouse flight
> mode (the one mode reminds me of the way I played the
> original Wing Commander). But the y-axis is backwards to
> what I've been used to from years and years of gaming. Please
> forgive me if I'm just dense, but I don't see an option anywhere
> to invert the mouse.. Is it in there somewhere that I missed?
> Will the retail version have it?
>
>

Oddly, its not bothered me one bit and I always play with an inverted mouse in FPS games. Seems completely foreign not to use inverse to me. I feel that most times the whole mouse thing for clicking buttons in freelancer to be pointless unless I dont have autopilot thingy working right. It doesnt seem to want to auto engage fighters and maneuver unless in mouse flight mode. Its much easier to use hotkeys and damn near necessary in combat. Course, thats my main gripe with the game beyond the somewhat boring and pointless bounty/assassin missions you get (vs hauling cargo which can be UBERprofitable). Why is it that all the baddies must CONSTANTLY be shooting ONLY ME? Getting raped by about 8 rogues in a storyline mission in about 2 minutes of furball combat is rather depressing. At least I took 2 down with me, not that my frelling allies helped at all..

I always mistrust games where I seem to "win" too easily. With this in
mind, I find the combat model is very, very simplistic : I just seemed to
keep prodding my mouse in the direction of a big red arrow and pressing
"fire" and I, well, "win" .....The demo is heavily scripted, but I hope that that is simply a consequence of the single player aspect of the demo. Certainly download it and take a peek : but don't expect an RTS/RPG in
space. Think more of Serious Sam with conversational interludes ...

>> >forgot to mention somethign else : this ga(y)me is SO camp.
>> >
>> >I'm not sure what to think when a mincing barman sporting a walrus
>> >moustache asks if "I'm into it" in an incredibly camp voice. In
>> >fact, come to think of it, all the character voices are, shall we
>> >say, a tad "pink".
>>
>> that's funny, i was thinking the same thing. I've yet to find a game
>> with exceptional voice acting, but the voices in this game kind of
>> threw me for a second.
>
> And lets not mention the fact that every character likes to wave his
> hands around in a rather, well, queer fashion while they speak.

LOL. Reminds me a little of the Simpsons episode in the steel mill, where
a big macho type gets a spark in his hair and jumps & down flapping his
hands and screaming "put it out, put it out".

Well, in the demo anyway. It is possible to be a succesful pirate. First you have to get you rep with the Rogues/outcasts/junkers up to neutral or better. Then you can go to either pirate base in the demo and get missions. Unfortunately, they are basically the opposite missions of being a good guy--go to the waypoint and kill all the Navy ships (instead of Rogue ships). There are 2 pirate bases in the demo, Buffalo Base, and Rochester.

I'm a big fan of the X games but I have FL on pre-order import, not because I think FL is an X beating space sim, but because, as you point out, it is a superb action adventure. Once I got out of the mindset and expectations erroneously conjured by years of mismarketing of FL, leading me to expect something entirely different, and once I crushed my joystick reflexes that were making it so difficult to get into the demo, I realised FL was a fun, exciting and enjoyable game. Now i don't mind all the "missing" features, because they ain't missing.

I do think that a lot of people are missing out on the good things of FL because they have not shed their expectations. For me FL is not a space-sim, not even a space-sim lite, just a rollicking action adventure with a great arcade-style space shooter that provides plenty of visceral combat action in an interesting and detailed universe large enough and dynamic enough to engage my role-playing imagination.

On those terms, for me, it was worth pre-ordering as the demo hooked me. If I had kept to the "where's this sim feature, why isn't there that feature" disappointed simmer mentality I'd be missing out on an enjoyable game.Now maybe, even on these terms people can't be drawn in, but I do think it's worth checking in pre-conceptions before checking out the demo. I also think people should express whatever opinion they want so they can be countered by reasoned argument, not the prevalent arrogant fan-boy ranting which just alienates potential purchasers who we need to purchase the product to keep alive hopes for add-ons and follow-ups. I was nearly one of those lost purchasers but I stuck at the demo until I mastered the mouse and accepted it for what it was rather than for what I had hoped it would be.

I found reading this thread about the ENTIRE trade lane being disrupted, lack of reaction on the part of police, etc just feels too disruptive to my willing sense of disbelief (even if you account for deliberate "4th wall" bashing)...I expected to see traffic on-route to pileup, radio traffic to stop other convoys from initiating travel, and increasing police/paramilitary/military attempts to rid the disruption.

I mean, Trade Lanes are a big eyesore. First time i saw them i said, "YUCK!"...in order to justify the aesthetics this sort of thing should really play a pivotal role in the "willing suspension of disbelief" - A reinforcing role at that! I've already pointed out suggestions/obvious, now we probably have to deal with folks continuing to say that trade lane dynamics are irrelevant to the issue of FreeLancer immersion.

BTW, bottom of page2 of that last link is Dazed_Elf (a Derek Smart sockpuppet)

just found some nice hidden things that might convince me to give some money to the makers of this game ... now back into the game, i need to make some more money oh, and i wanted to try if i can salvage those lvl10 goodies again after i sold em ..._________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace

A reply to USENET;
It's not privateer. Noone should attempt using that term to describe this overhyped game that's neither "point&click" nor "space sim"...it's a horrible attempt at pandering to 'Microsoft Focus Groups' who think eliminating joystick support & invert mouse Y option just because most consumers tend NOT to purchase such game, but get's lost along the way while trying to ACT like a space sim + point&click at the same bloody time and not doing either good enough. (It's like they tried breeding dogs and came up with the worse MUTT imaginable.)

might look cool, but it's health is FUBAR

Just wait till you tag along with a squadron of Badlands Rogues (neutral) and watch them attack a 'Trade Lane' juncture and miss 100% of the time cause they're aiming for the empty "centerpoint" ...Besides, crippling space lanes doesn't raise/lower prices at all and supply logistics is pointless. WHICH JUST MAKES YOU WONDER WHY THE HELL THOSE DAMN EYESORES WERE CODED? ANYONE? Lemmie take a wild stab in the dark: it's because they couldn't think up a better way to "intercept" trade convoys using 'Hyperdrive'; what passes for 'Cruise' was probably nerfed a long time ago and replaced with these stupid "Train Tracks from HELL" that whip you really fast - which is cool - along something with the sound effects that would traumatize even the most hardened IRL rail commuter. IT'S THE "HURRY UP AND WAIT" MENTALITY. (whatever happened to the idea that pirates could use 'Anti-Hyperdrive' devices to turn those lumbering space barges INTO LUMBERING SPACE BARGES?)

And let's not even venture to mention the "WingCommander" annoyances that bugged the hell out of everyone. Sure the aesthetics of some of these annoyances were improved no end -- THEY'RE STILL ANNOYANCES -- The problem is i didn't see the cool bits of privateer anywhere. (space sim; police scanner avoidance; lumbering trade ships) now it's just...

BTW, i've gotten a bunch of MODs so you can play the demo tweaked. (all 5 ships purchasable and 1million credit save game; hmmm can't get it to work. try this one - just the 5 ships mod - put it in your data/equipment folder)

Quote:

Join formation with police patrols (or pirates if you are one of them) and hunt for the enemy. Join formation with transports and defend them from attack. Look at the patrol lines on your map and hang out where the enemies patrol and slaughter them. You don't need to do the missions to get enjoyment out of this game, or to make money. In fact I only do job board missions when I need to get a little more cash for shields or missiles or stuff.

Usually what I do to keep costs down in the Defender is to use a seeker mines launcher & about 100 stalker missles.Everytime I take a mission I basically try to use them all so that it keeps my value down & I would have to spend money about 3200 credits for the Stalker missles & maybe some seeker mines for a good bundle.

Another good thing to do is to not always tractor in stuff since that also increases your net worth.

Last edited by MajorFreak on Fri Mar 07, 2003 6:57 am; edited 2 times in total

Your Current Level has been set to 50, so you can now fly ALL ships available for purchase, and buy ALL the equipment in the system. Including the Cruise Disruptor Missle, which is what I fire at Transports to avoid having to shoot the "Double Donuts".

These have to be placed in the root/My Documents/My Games/Freelancer Trial/Accts/SinglePlayer folder.

Joined: 13 Jun 2002Posts: 54Location: Muffy went off on somebody and all i got was this lousy T-Shirt

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:22 am Post subject:

Well I now own the full version. So after I blast through the Single Player, I will connect to some Multi-player servers and gather some info and insights. BTW, you can't run the server and the client on the same machine. Yay, excuse to buy a new comp! hehe._________________Jesus saves, the rest of you take 5d20 damage.

i have 50+ hours in sp and its borring now.
i got everything from best ship over best guns and torps to best shild, im even green with most pirates... i think i found over 90% of all secrets out there...

hmm found a demo of "Homeplanet" gona try that now ..._________________me-777
_________________
Noir
The famous name whose origin traces back to death
Two maidens that control death
Black hands in fields of green
Please protect the peace