A Question for the Religious Folks Here - Think Atheist2015-03-03T18:47:45Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/a-question-for-the-religious-folks-here?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWere I a religious person, I…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12691352013-03-06T23:14:38.440ZDale Headleyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DaleHeadley
<p>Were I a religious person, I would either have to admit that either God is one f%^&amp;ed-up a**$#@e; or death, starvation, and all manner of human suffering are good things. Offhand, I can't think of a third alternative. Unless, of course, there IS no God.</p>
<p>Were I a religious person, I would either have to admit that either God is one f%^&amp;ed-up a**$#@e; or death, starvation, and all manner of human suffering are good things. Offhand, I can't think of a third alternative. Unless, of course, there IS no God.</p> "...so way out of our underst…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12691072013-03-06T18:37:28.189ZJames Coxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JamesCox
<p>"...so way out of our understanding with our dimensionally-bound reasoning that we can't really settle on anything, but rather we just need to explore and learn what we can about what we see so far."</p>
<p>Very nice way of saying it. I expect that by 'exploring', we start to become aware of the "dimensionally-bound reasoning", and start slowly adding 'dimensions' to our thinking. Another way of thinking about it also, is to consider how we are socially conditioned by language, custom, and…</p>
<p>"...so way out of our understanding with our dimensionally-bound reasoning that we can't really settle on anything, but rather we just need to explore and learn what we can about what we see so far."</p>
<p>Very nice way of saying it. I expect that by 'exploring', we start to become aware of the "dimensionally-bound reasoning", and start slowly adding 'dimensions' to our thinking. Another way of thinking about it also, is to consider how we are socially conditioned by language, custom, and beliefs. These can 'confine' the decision space we 'visit' in our thinking. I expect that there are areas that should never be visited, due to their inherent anti-social, or none life affirming characteristics. </p>
<p>Finding tools that allow a broading of our decision space, such as mathematics and modeling, allow us to 'visit' these possibly hidden holes in our logic systems. Sadly theists need to 'visit' these areas more often, but find ways to skirt them, and maintain a clear conscience. </p> You just can't win, and you c…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12688782013-03-06T18:12:15.284ZJames Coxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JamesCox
<p>You just can't win, and you can't even break even!</p>
<p>You just can't win, and you can't even break even!</p> I 'want to think', that athei…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12690742013-03-06T18:00:24.068ZJames Coxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JamesCox
<p>I 'want to think', that atheism is 'more valid' than theism, but it is unclear if our confidence in 'logic', 'evidence', and 'process', can be validated. I think that both systems can suffer from Gogel's Incompletness, and a possible tendency to suggest that some questions are considered 'settled'.</p>
<p>I expect that the list of 'settled' questions in atheism is significantly smaller than in theism, but it is possible that some answers will remain 'outside' each system of thought. What…</p>
<p>I 'want to think', that atheism is 'more valid' than theism, but it is unclear if our confidence in 'logic', 'evidence', and 'process', can be validated. I think that both systems can suffer from Gogel's Incompletness, and a possible tendency to suggest that some questions are considered 'settled'.</p>
<p>I expect that the list of 'settled' questions in atheism is significantly smaller than in theism, but it is possible that some answers will remain 'outside' each system of thought. What questions atheists might ask, may be controled by group expectations or the language we use. I expect that theists suffer from a similar condition. Sadly, I can at this moment, only write in generalities....</p> Maybe 'God' is more like 'Max…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12688772013-03-06T17:46:18.261ZJames Coxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JamesCox
<p>Maybe 'God' is more like 'Maxwell's Demon'. God tosses the coin, but never looks to see where it lands, or at its state..</p>
<p>Maybe 'God' is more like 'Maxwell's Demon'. God tosses the coin, but never looks to see where it lands, or at its state..</p> I remember a little question…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12690682013-03-06T17:38:50.209ZJames Coxhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/JamesCox
<p>I remember a little question I wrote on an 'intended for student use' white board in HS: "So if I go to heaven as one of God's elect, sit at the right hand of the father with all the rest, and sit all spell bound by God's greatness, what are we going to talk about? Seems like the other place might be more interesting." </p>
<p>I remember a little question I wrote on an 'intended for student use' white board in HS: "So if I go to heaven as one of God's elect, sit at the right hand of the father with all the rest, and sit all spell bound by God's greatness, what are we going to talk about? Seems like the other place might be more interesting." </p> I read that and can only wond…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12689682013-03-06T15:13:11.588ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>I read that and can only wonder why someone would adhere to a religion that's of little use in terms of achieving salvation and in which we are all nothing but God's puppets.</p>
<p>I read that and can only wonder why someone would adhere to a religion that's of little use in terms of achieving salvation and in which we are all nothing but God's puppets.</p> I'm sorry, I just wonder why…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12689672013-03-06T15:09:19.907ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>I'm sorry, I just wonder why you feel this is needed. Is it that you'd like to have a way to forced morality on people who deny there's any sort of basis for it?</p>
<p>I'm sorry, I just wonder why you feel this is needed. Is it that you'd like to have a way to forced morality on people who deny there's any sort of basis for it?</p> But you have thereby proved i…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12689662013-03-06T14:46:15.828ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>But you have thereby proved it IS nonsense. The concept is self-contradictory, and contradictions cannot actually exist. (In general, tf you think you see a contradiction existing, you haven't looked at it closely enough; there's something you don't know that would resolve the contradiction. But if you are faced with something <em>self</em>-contradictory the only possible resolution is that it doesn't, in fact, exist.)</p>
<p>Although people are careful to claim that we don't positively…</p>
<p>But you have thereby proved it IS nonsense. The concept is self-contradictory, and contradictions cannot actually exist. (In general, tf you think you see a contradiction existing, you haven't looked at it closely enough; there's something you don't know that would resolve the contradiction. But if you are faced with something <em>self</em>-contradictory the only possible resolution is that it doesn't, in fact, exist.)</p>
<p>Although people are careful to claim that we don't positively believe that there is no god, arguments like this convince me that <em>this particular god</em> cannot possibly exist. So when it comes to the Xian/Jewish/Muslim gods, put me all the way over at #7 (positive there isn't one) on Dawkins' scale. </p>
<p>As such, doG is less believable than Thor and Zeus who still are possible but highly, highly, <em>highly</em> unlikely.</p> Part of peoples' reluctance t…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-03-06:1982180:Comment:12690622013-03-06T14:42:16.891ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>Part of peoples' reluctance to participate is that you insist on calling your new system a "religion" when it isn't. (It irritates us profoundly when theists insist atheism is just another religion, and here you go agreeing with them.) IYour system is meant to compete with them but is not itself one.</p>
<p>Part of peoples' reluctance to participate is that you insist on calling your new system a "religion" when it isn't. (It irritates us profoundly when theists insist atheism is just another religion, and here you go agreeing with them.) IYour system is meant to compete with them but is not itself one.</p>