Originally posted by Sado22 agreed. that would be VERY lame. i think the point of berserk is the whole "man is the measure of all things" philosophy and with that in mind, guts gettng help from anykind of angel or demon would somewhat kill the point.

I disagree.

I think the point of the manga is varied.

It is a love story.

It is a political story.

It is a story of selfishness and what never giving up your dreams can mean for those around you.

Most of all, it is a will power story in which all other points fall under.

I see lot's of reference to ambiguous deity. This makes me think that there is a ying to Femto's yang. There has to be. It's almost obvious to me. Surely that king of fairies is NOT the Ying. That would suck.

Originally posted by Sado22 i was already a little divided between the berserker armor stuff (because even though it makes all the sense in the world, guts having to rely on something else kinda kills it for me). if hanafuba does anything besides cure Caska or maybe heal guts's wounds, i'd be pretty disappointed.

Originally posted by Sado22 to me, the best aspect of berserk IS that there is no good and evil. Griffith is a demon but he's uniting the world. guts is the "hero" of the story but ultimately he's the one trying to kill the messiah. itsl ike having Judas Iscariot as the main character of a story. on top of that, Guts is far from a noble person while Griffith is the one granting hope to people.

But the underlying principle of Femto's existence is a false hope. He is a subjugater, a traitor, selfish, and evil. He masquerades as something righteous. His entire "light" persona is a mask. A mask of his real appearance: that of a demon God.

Guts is really the person, along with just a very few others, who realize this, and know the pure selfishness and evil that is Femto. That's the real point of the story and why the story continues.

As of now, Guts has NO way of evening touching anyone in the Godhand. He will need an amp above and beyond his "demon fox". He is going to need an amp, similar to Griffith's.

His Berserker armor is only enough to match MOST apostles. There are probably a couple to 5 apostles that are still stronger than healthy Guts in berserker mode.

Originally posted by Sado22 which gets me to my next point: do you guys also feel that Guts has mellowed a LOT from his original appearance. given how antisocial and cold he was, current guts is practically a plushie.

~Sado

Yes. That's the point of his character. He started out as a loner. The victim of child abuse and sexual abuse.

He has since then grown into a lover, a friend to many, and a dead man walking. Guts' character development has been very dynamic as we've seen him grow into the true human messiah for the people of Earth, whether or not they realize it now.

If you ask me the Guts always was the person he is now. Just the events of the eclipse completely ruined every semblance of life he had and he just didn't give a damn anymore and started acting cruel and somewhat sadistic. Like when he stood by and watched the woman be executed in one of the first chapters or when he used the first Apostle he ever fought's own daughter as a shield.

Never was that kind of person, he's just finally regaining and more fully stepping into who he really is.

Originally posted by Eman5805 If you ask me the Guts always was the person he is now. Just the events of the eclipse completely ruined every semblance of life he had and he just didn't give a damn anymore and started acting cruel and somewhat sadistic. Like when he stood by and watched the woman be executed in one of the first chapters or when he used the first Apostle he ever fought's own daughter as a shield.

Never was that kind of person, he's just finally regaining and more fully stepping into who he really is.

Now that I think about it, that sounds about right. Guts is going back to the awesome nice guy he was, right before he left the band of the hawk.

Regarding gut's development, i didn't actually say that it's a bad thing. we should understand that guts started off on his vengeance at late 18 to early 19 years of age...which is a kid in many ways. he was a teen, and lacked the kind of maturity that he displays now. like most 18 yo he was a bit selfish, lonely, disgruntled and a silent whiner in ways. but its been almost 4 years since then and age and his experiences have led to a maturity in him. not only is he not selfish and needlessly violent but also opened up to those close to him.

another reason i see this change in him is because of his mortal wound. in the beginning of the manga he was young and reckless in ways because he hadn't really comprehended death the way you do when you're old. of course, he's been in thousands of near death situations but KNOWING you're going to die is different. right now he knows he's going to die because of the wound i.e. time is running. that's a sobering effect, i don't care who you are or consider yourself to be. nothing quiets down a person than the thought of mortality.

and lastly, he seems to be understanding that his cause is ultimately futile. whether or not he kills Griffith or not, will change absolutely nothing because:
1) he's still going to die (if his wound remains unhealed. not to mention that the godhand are probably NOT going to go down easy)
2) when he dies he's going to hell
3) his friends are going to die with him
4) and the people will probably burn him at the stake for killing their messiah

all his struggle really will be, is a temporary setback for powers MUCH greater than himself.

as for Griffith, i don't think its as easy as "griffith is a demongod and thus he's bad and a faker". griffith has done lots of good thngs, whether he did it for selfish goals or not. uniting the people, saving kingdom after kingdom, rescuing people and not to menton that Sonia who can read minds and ods doesn't feel repulsed by him at all....instead she's drawn to him. tbe best aspect of Berserk is how muddled good and evil is. griffith's goal is to form a kingdom of his own and thus far he's done only good for people. even with the old band of Hawk, he brought about more good (minus the eclipse) despite it all being a selfish goal. Guts on the other hand is doing something out of personal motives and is doing nothing good out of it for people around...far from it infact, considering how many lives he's destroyed on the way.

of course, i'm not saying Guts is evil but still, if you chalk up his death toll against his good deeds on the cosmic scale what do you think happens?

Originally posted by Sado22 Regarding gut's development, i didn't actually say that it's a bad thing. we should understand that guts started off on his vengeance at late 18 to early 19 years of age...which is a kid in many ways. he was a teen, and lacked the kind of maturity that he displays now. like most 18 yo he was a bit selfish, lonely, disgruntled and a silent whiner in ways. but its been almost 4 years since then and age and his experiences have led to a maturity in him. not only is he not selfish and needlessly violent but also opened up to those close to him.

another reason i see this change in him is because of his mortal wound. in the beginning of the manga he was young and reckless in ways because he hadn't really comprehended death the way you do when you're old. of course, he's been in thousands of near death situations but KNOWING you're going to die is different. right now he knows he's going to die because of the wound i.e. time is running. that's a sobering effect, i don't care who you are or consider yourself to be. nothing quiets down a person than the thought of mortality.

and lastly, he seems to be understanding that his cause is ultimately futile. whether or not he kills Griffith or not, will change absolutely nothing because:
1) he's still going to die (if his wound remains unhealed. not to mention that the godhand are probably NOT going to go down easy)
2) when he dies he's going to hell
3) his friends are going to die with him
4) and the people will probably burn him at the stake for killing their messiah

all his struggle really will be, is a temporary setback for powers MUCH greater than himself.

Originally posted by Sado22 as for Griffith, i don't think its as easy as "griffith is a demongod and thus he's bad and a faker". griffith has done lots of good thngs, whether he did it for selfish goals or not. uniting the people, saving kingdom after kingdom, rescuing people and not to menton that Sonia who can read minds and ods doesn't feel repulsed by him at all....instead she's drawn to him. tbe best aspect of Berserk is how muddled good and evil is. griffith's goal is to form a kingdom of his own and thus far he's done only good for people. even with the old band of Hawk, he brought about more good (minus the eclipse) despite it all being a selfish goal. Guts on the other hand is doing something out of personal motives and is doing nothing good out of it for people around...far from it infact, considering how many lives he's destroyed on the way.

of course, i'm not saying Guts is evil but still, if you chalk up his death toll against his good deeds on the cosmic scale what do you think happens?

~Sado

Doing things that appear good, superficially, make doing them far worse than not having done them at all. It is deceit and is quite evil.

And, that girl that can read minds: :

1. Griffith is far too intelligent to directly reveal in his thoughts that he is using them all.

2. He is also a god with immense mental powers. We don't know that what she reads is simply what Griffith wants her to see. Griffith changed his outside appearance to please the people. Who's to say he can't hide his thoughts from others that read minds?

3. The girl also has a warped sense of reality. She isn't normal.

Also, Griffith isn't just trying to obtain his own kingdom. He wants to take over the world.

And, what Guts is doing is far from personal motives. He knows that Griffith is evil, very evil. He knows that everyone is falling for it, basically. And, right now, he is trying to help his lover, not kill Griffith. But, I bet that as soon as he's done, he'll go back to trying to kill Griffith.

Guts Death toll:

I don't remember a time when Guts murdered anyone. It was either battle or defending those around him.

If you can think of a time her murdered someone, I'll change my thoughts.

On another sad note, it pisses me off that he's taking a break. I wish they would form a massive team to do this and make it at least bi-weekly. Someone with a shitload of money needs to fund this project.

On another sad note, it pisses me off that he's taking a break. I wish they would form a massive team to do this and make it at least bi-weekly. Someone with a shitload of money needs to fund this project.

Honestly, I don't even know if Berserk would continue or not. Kentaro Miura is already a moe lover since he already played Idol Master and refuse to continue berserk.