tamdrin wrote:while for most of us it is hard/impossible to rest in direct perception thus many methods are needed.. though I would imagine that many people would be happy to be given karmamudra as one of the (lower level practices) and a suitable consort at that too...

tamdrin wrote:while for most of us it is hard/impossible to rest in direct perception thus many methods are needed.. though I would imagine that many people would be happy to be given karmamudra as one of the (lower level practices) and a suitable consort at that too...

There's a relatively obscure one that I like called "Drinking the Mountain Stream". It is a collection of his songs, much like the "100k Songs", but has a gentler tone and a nice introduction. It lists the author as either Jetsun Milarepa or Lama Kunga Rinpoche on the used book website I use. (K.R. is a Sakya lama that was abbott of a monastery that specialized in Vajrayogini practice.)

In general I stay away from translations by Guenther.

In the Tantra of the Beautiful Auspiciousness (bKra shis mdzes ldan gyi rgyud), this "Great Primordial Purity" (spyi gzhi) is defined as follows:

What is known as "The Great Primordial Purity”Is the state abiding before authentic Buddhas aroseAnd before impure sentient beings appeared;It is called the great Primordial radiance of immutable awareness.

Enochian wrote:Once a regular human, like any of us, obtains Buddhahood DURING LIFE his physical body should become a Sambhogakāya, a body of light.

Buddha himself continued to have a physical body after attaining Buddhahood. Or was Buddha not a Buddha until Parinirvana? But then, how could Buddha teach Buddhahood and the path to Buddhahood without being a Buddha before death?

Consider perhaps that Dharmakaya, Sambhogakaya, and Nirmanakaya are non-dual, and that a Bodhisattva of even just the first Bhumi can have a hundred physical manifestations. Why is it that a being, attaining Buddhahood even in this very life, cannot continue to have a physical body? How are we even discussing a Buddha, beyond dualistic conceptualities like subject as object, as something that can have anything? Dharmadhatu and Dharmakaya arise simultaneously as one, and this samsaric illusion exists within that void nature, simultaneously appearance and emptiness.

There is no contradiction, there's an apparent lack of understanding. Through some practices, a bodhisattva may demonstrate their attainment through dissolving the physical manifest body into the light body, but the simultaneous existence of both is not impossible. Why should it be?

Wouldn't it be best to resolve to be done with business and distraction?Although you serve your superiors, they will never be pleased.Although you care for your subordinates, they will never be satisfied.Although you consider the wishes of others with affection, they will never give you a thought.Think about it, make a definite choice.~ Patrul Rinpoche, "The Heart Treasure of the Enlightened Ones"

Once a regular human, like any of us, obtains Buddhahood DURING LIFE his physical body should become a Sambhogakāya, a body of light.

Where'd you get that idea?

Dharmakaya=enlightenmentSambogakaya=communication of enlightenmentNirmanakaya=physical manifestation of enlightenment.

When all 3 are together, like with Shakyamuni, it's called the "Svabhavikakaya".

In the Tantra of the Beautiful Auspiciousness (bKra shis mdzes ldan gyi rgyud), this "Great Primordial Purity" (spyi gzhi) is defined as follows:

What is known as "The Great Primordial Purity”Is the state abiding before authentic Buddhas aroseAnd before impure sentient beings appeared;It is called the great Primordial radiance of immutable awareness.

Recognize that your mind is the unity of being empty and cognizant, suffused with knowing. When your attention is extroverted, you fall under the sway of thoughts. Let your attention recognize itself. Recognize that it is empty. That which recognizes is the cognizance. You can trust at that moment that these two – emptiness and cognizance – are an original unity. Seeing this is called self-knowing wakefulness. ~ Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche

The "Physical Body" which ignorant beings like us perceive is the Nirmanakaya. But all Buddha bodies are primordially inseperable. If you yourself can perceive a Buddha as a "Light Body," you are perceiving Sambhogakaya. Traditionally, this would mean you are on the Bhumis. If you are Buddha, then you yourself perceive the Dharmakaya, or, rather, you ARE the Dharmakaya. The Dharmakaya is said to be the "Benefit for oneself" while the other Kayas are the "Benefit for others."

"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified." - (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

For vajrayana practitioners, it is possible that the enlightenment has reach the highest level but they still temperally keep the original bodies. When the current 'matured' body's karma exhausted, it turns into minimum element or light, or, some body parts are left for the benefit of beings or some karmic reason (Marpa said Milarepa was supposed to be able to fully transform his body, but because he only finished 8 great difficult tasks rather than 9, Milarepa got a little bit karma left unpurified so will have a bit body left).

A nearly breaking out bird is already a bird, just it's not out of egg shell yet so it look similar to other eggs.

I am fairly certain that fully enlightened beings can manifest any way they see fit.Why wouldnt they be able to have all 3 kayas at once ?Why would they be held by the relative constructs of our perception ?I see no contradiction .

Recognize that your mind is the unity of being empty and cognizant, suffused with knowing. When your attention is extroverted, you fall under the sway of thoughts. Let your attention recognize itself. Recognize that it is empty. That which recognizes is the cognizance. You can trust at that moment that these two – emptiness and cognizance – are an original unity. Seeing this is called self-knowing wakefulness. ~ Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche