Αυτοκαθορισμός

Δευτέρα, 30 Ιανουαρίου 2017

Moon of Alabama -- Outrage About Trump Exposes "Librul" Hypocrisy

Outrage About Trump Exposes "Librul" Hypocrisy

The current "librul" outrage about Trump's announced policies is
somewhat amusing. Yes, these policies are bad, very bad. Trump is bad.
But so was Obama and so is Clinton. Protesting the policies of one while
not protesting when the other implemented the same policies is
insincere grandstanding.

Wherever you look, those Trump policies are building directly on, or
simply repeat Obama policies. The now theatrically outraged people
swallowed those without a word of protest.

A Trump order yesterday introduced a temporary ban on visa holders
and visa issuing to citizens of seven Middle East countries. These
countries are: Iraq, Syria, Iran, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and Yemen. Those
countries have one thing in common.
No terrorist who killed on U.S. soil originated from them. The (few)
terrorists who attacked within the U.S. came from the Middle Eastern
countries not on the list. Following Trump's order, outcries on social
media and in various papers ensued. People went to airports to protest.
TV was there to spread the news.

But it is nothing new that the citizens of those countries are targeted with U.S. visa restrictions. It was Obama who introduced such in 2015 and 2016. The Trump order links directly to them. It does not name any country but refers to them as "countries designated in Division O, Title II, Section 203 of the 2016 consolidated appropriations act."

U.S animosities against these countries is even older.According to
the former general Clark, plans were made to wage war against six of
the now named seven countries back in 2001. Yemen was later added while
Lebanon was (temporarily?) taken off the list. The administrations
change, the selected "enemies" stay the same.

In 2011 Obama stopped processing Iraqi visa requests for six month.
That move was quite similar to Trump's current one. Where was the
outcry in 2001? In 2011, 2015 and 2016? Is it only bad when Trump
restricts visits for certain people from certain countries?

Sure, Trump introduces his "outrageous" measures loud and abruptly
where Obama sneaked them in. But that is just different marketing, not a
different product.

Yesterday Trump also issueda memorandum
to structure his National Security Council. It says that the Director
of National Intelligence and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Staff "shall attend" when it is pertinent to the issue in question.
"Librul" outrage ensues. Trump excludesthe DNI and CJCOS from the NSC! Obama's first Defense Secretary calls it a "huge mistake"! But a comparison of the text Trump issued with the text Obama issued when he came into
office shows them to be mostly similar. Nothing really relevant has
changed. The "shall attend" clause is exactly the same.

Yesterday people were protesting at airports against Trump's
temporary immigration restrictions. Lots of outrage against Trump ensued
on social media over this and the other issues. The hypocrisy here
stinks to high heaven. Where were the protest when Obama did similar?

Where are the protests demanding the repeal of the Patriot Act? Where
are the anti-war protests? These died as soon as Obama came into
office. They never came back even as Obama pursued polices that were, at
best, Republican light and far from any progressive ideal. Only fake
liberals, aka "libruls", could agree with these. When Dick Cheney is your witness against Trump you have lost the plot.

Many of the people coming out now against Trump would likely have
jubilated had Hilliary Clinton won the election and introduced the
exactly same policies. Protest against the system that is incorporated
in Trump, just as it is incorporated in Clinton, does not come to their
mind. Do they expect to be taken serious?

There was no outrage today from any of the U.S. "libruls" and their media outlets about last nights failed U.S. military raid in Yemen.
The rural home of a tribal leader's family, friendly with some Yemeni
al-Qaeda members, was raided by a special operations commando. A U.S.
tiltrotor military aircraft was shot down during the raid. One soldier
was killed and several were wounded. The U.S. commandos responded with
their usual panic. They killed anyone in sight and bombed the shit out
of any nearby structure.According to Yemeni sources between 30 and 57 Yemenis were killed including eight women andeight children (graphic pics). The U.S. military claimed, as it always does, that no civilians were hurt in the raid.

One of the killed kids was the 8 year old daughter of al-Qaeda
propagandist Anwar al-Awlaki. (The targeted family is related to
al-Awlaki's wife.) The girl wasa U.S. citizen.
Under Obama the CIA had already assassinated her father and her 16 year
old brother. With Obama's active help the Gulf countries have been
bombing and destroying Ýemen for nearly two years. No U.S.
demonstrations were held against this war.

Yemeni sources say that at least two men were abducted by the U.S.
military. The Central Command press release only said that the raid had
helped to acquire "intelligence" about possible future terror acts. That
probably means that the prisoners will be tortured to unveil such
"intelligence" even as they may not have any. The Obama administration
had introduced new rules for the military on how to handle detainees.
The UN judged thatthe application of some of these rules is torture.
The "libruls" will of course be outraged should any of those rules,
which Obama introduced, be used under a Trump administration.

The hypocritical outrage against Trump for things Obama already did is exactly what Trump wants and needs.
He keeps chasing the media and the Clintonistas around the block. The
impression he leaves, not only with his followers, is that of a man who
works a lot. 25 outrages out of 25 headlines in just one week?
"Impressive! That is way more than Obama achieved!"

Trump already filed for reelection. Who really wants to beat him will
have to attack him on fundamental issues. That is a problem for the
"libruls". Obama and Clinton stand for the same terrible policies Trump
is pushing for. They are not as loud as Trump and paint their aims in
softer colors. But the difference is only one of degree.

The U.S., like many other "western" countries, needs fundamentally
different policies and politicians to become a more just and social
society. The current "librul" outcries take energy away from achieving
such.

Yes, Liberal hypocrites. CNN is going on breathlessly about the many
protests they are covering from across the U.S. Usually, they suppress
or ignore the mass actions of mere people or feature them as events of
crazies. But not today. The good citizens are smiling as they mass to
protest the Bad Trump Government.

There is a good chunk of what you wrote that is true b but your leaving some import stuff out.
The plan to over throw the Assad government and weaken Iran was
initiated under W not Obama. Obama of course had 8 years to stop it and
failed to do so.
The decree of the Donald to block Muslims from the countries that
that have not resulted in a death of a single American on American soil
in the last 15 years, while leaving the door wide open to the countries
that did little things like 911 etc. The countries he refused to ban
were also the countries that he has business interests in. If he was
really interested in protecting Americans he would have banned KSA,
Qater etc. But lets be honest. This has nothing to do with protecting
Americans. This is another written in Israel law that the US is passing
for Israel, to hell with the consequences for the US. That Iran $20B
Boeing deal and all the US jobs it would produce? Say bye, bye. That
will now go to Airbus. American lives saved 0. This pushes Iran closer
to China and diminishes American influence in the region. But at least
Israel gets to keep stealing the Palestinians land for now.
Some one is supposed to get outraged by the US attacking AQ in Yemen?
The only people that might be outraged by that is the Americas
favourite terrorists the Saudis.

The outcry against Trump's policies are well deserved. Clinton would
have done the exact same thing, brand it differently with doublespeak
and the fake news presstitude media would have given it their blessing.
This sickening travesty wasn't any different under Obama but now, albeit
for fake and wrong political reasons, all this gets the deserved
attention and who know backlash.

While the current demonstrations against the ban seem genuinely
spontaneous, much of the ongoing indignation is ginned up by the
mainstream mass media, which appears determined to destroy the Trump
presidency, or at the very least damage it so badly that he will not be
re-elected in 2020. This commentary by Caitlin Johnstone goes into this
in more detail: Corporate Media Is Planning Nonstop Trump Alarmism Until 2020 So A Corporate Dem Can Win

" Anti-terrorist ban targets weak countries first, then strong ones
Why is terrorist hotbed Saudi Arabia being exempted from the travel ban,
while relatively safer countries like Iran are included?
If you look at it from an engineering standpoint, it looks backwards.
The ban ought to apply more forcefully to countries that pose a higher
risk.
But in the real world, we can't just wave a magic wand and
immediately ban Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and Turkey, which have wealthy,
powerful lobbies in our own country who have compromised key figures at
the national level (John McCain being the most egregious example -- the
Saudis only love Crooked Hillary Clinton more).
Trump is a pragmatist dealing with real-world relationships, so first
he's going after the countries that have no way of retaliating against
us, and which do not have powerful lobbies for defense. Failed or
anarchic states like Libya, Iraq, Somalia, etc."

b - You should have touched upon Iran - it sticks out like a sore
thumb. Since when has Iran 'exported' terrorists (except in the small
minds of the Likudniks)? People are rightfully bitching about the Saudis
getting a pass, but say nothing about the curious inclusion of Iran.
Iran - that's the country where al Qaeda, ISIS and the 9/11 hijackers
came from, isn't it?
I'll also point out that the naval exercise Unified Trident begins in
the Gulf next week. That's U.S., British and French ships 'simulating' a
confrontation with Iran. Notice how conveniently the U.S. has no
aircraft carrier there? Gosh - you would think we would have wanted one
there in a simulated naval battle with Iran. At any rate, any American
that's been following the string of false flags has probably noticed
that there always seems to be some sort of anti-terror exercise
happening at the same time. Now, if one were to make an observation
about patterns of psychopathic behavior...

US President Donald Trump’s controversial Muslim ban has been met with
criticism from Iran, Iraq and Yemen, whose nationals have been targeted
by the restrictive measure.

pay no attention to what tee-rump - or any politician or tnc disinformation agent working in the msm - has to say.
pay attention only to what they actually do. turn off the sound on
the movie. the soundtrack is only there to distract and disinform.
the most cursory inspection of the 'morality play' that began the 'new american century' reveals 19 jihadists in airplanes ... There were 19 hijackers on 9/11: 15 Saudis, 2 from the United Arab Emirates, 1 from Egypt, and 1 from Lebanon
... all protected and defended by bush xliii, obama xliv, and now trump
xlv... not the proverbial dime's worth of difference among them.
the peoples of Iran, Iraq and Yemen have all been the victims of us
terrorism. and are again now, while the wahabist terrorists - together
with the dancing israelis - go free. to kill again, and again, and again
...

Prominent Iraqi cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, has censured US President
Donald Trump over his executive order to ban entry into the US of
citizens from seven Muslim-majority countries, calling for the expulsion
of American nationals from the Arab country in retaliation.

excellent idea. use tee-rump's grandstanding as the springboard to rid
iraq of american terrorists. start with iraq and then include the other
six countries, all presently victims of american terrorism.
it's certainly past time to rid these muslim nations of americans, the destroyers of worlds ...

I always thought it rather significant that Trump openly stated that
we (the U.S.) should have taken Iraq's oil after we invaded. Maybe he
wants a do-over.
I'm kind of thinking Iraq would back Iran if the U.S. false-flags
them in the Gulf next week. Heck, if the U.S. invades (once again)
Syria, Iraq and Iran... well, hell... that's a lot of oil for 'war
spoils' for Trump. Boeing isn't going to complain - the liberated
hell-holes left of those three countries will all need aircraft, and the
U.S. has plenty of virtual USD to loan them for the purchase. And you
just know that Haliburton is clinking champagne glasses every time the
coalition bombs another oil wellhead or pump jack in Iraq and Syria
today. We need to get this circus started - there's money to be had, and
lack of war is just interfering with the oligarchs' ability to acquire
it.

the only thing in competition with the hypocrisy of the outrage of
the 'liberals' and 'progressives' who rent their garments and tore their
hair over bush's wars and then calmly cashed their paychecks during
obama's ... and who now castigate tee-rump for maintaining similarly
seamless continuity with obama's policies, just as did obama with bush's
... are the interpreters of tee-rump's rants in tongues who profess to
see a difference between tee-rump and his predecessor psotus. believe it
when you've seen it. so far, not the proverbial dime's worth of
difference. turn off the sound, the collective twits' tweets, and the
tnc msm's synchronous screech ... and watch the action. not-hillary, no
difference so far.

The red team & blue team people don't care about "issues",
certainly not bi-partisan ones like whatever the empire is doing. They
only care about their stupid football team. They're a completely
hopeless impediment to any practical changes.

Want to know why liberals and progressives should be really mad?
Trump made campaign promises, the wall, ban and extreme vetting on
immigration, cancelling TPP. Just after a few days in power, he's
already acted to implement - badly in some cases - these policies.
Obama promised hard to close down Guantanamo. Did he try it in his first
10 days in office? He had full control of Congress, both houses, and he
did nothing for 2 years. He didn't close it down in the 6 years
afterwards either, of course - I mean, he eventually pardoned Manning,
so he could still have done something in his last weeks in office.
How come an ignorant fool like Trump manages to get shit done to an
extent, and sticks to his promises, when a good guy like Obama basically
turned out to be a wanker? Frankly, if I were a US progressive, I'd be
pissed off.

Before I post my opinion of this piece; please allow me this moment of rage:
F.....K F.......K F........K!!!!!!http://finance.yahoo.com/news/saudi-king-agrees-call-trump-213832329.html
Trump doesn't only want safe zones for Syria but for Yemen as well and he's recruiting the Saudis to organize these!!!!!
Okay, many of you said that a Trump/Saudi alliance on Syria was your
red line. I'm asking you now; are you going to leave the Dark Side once
and for all and join us in fighting this outrage???

PavewayIV@7 I will bet the US hopes the naval exercise 'Unified
Trident' fares better than the Millennium Challenge war game against
Iran in 2002 then... "Red, commanded by retired Marine Corps Lieutenant
General Paul K. Van Riper, adopted an asymmetric strategy, in
particular, using old methods to evade Blue's sophisticated electronic
surveillance network. Van Riper used motorcycle messengers to transmit
orders to front-line troops and World-War-II-style light signals to
launch airplanes without radio communications.
Red received an ultimatum from Blue, essentially a surrender
document, demanding a response within 24 hours. Thus warned of Blue's
approach, Red used a fleet of small boats to determine the position of
Blue's fleet by the second day of the exercise. In a preemptive strike,
Red launched a massive salvo of cruise missiles that overwhelmed the
Blue forces' electronic sensors and destroyed sixteen warships. This
included one aircraft carrier, ten cruisers and five of six amphibious
ships. An equivalent success in a real conflict would have resulted in
the deaths of over 20,000 service personnel. Soon after the cruise
missile offensive, another significant portion of Blue's navy was "sunk"
by an armada of small Red boats, which carried out both conventional
and suicide attacks that capitalized on Blue's inability to detect them
as well as expected. Needless to say At this point, the exercise was
suspended, Blue's ships were "re-floated", and the rules of engagement
were changed;After the war game was restarted, its participants were
forced to follow a script drafted to ensure a Blue Force victory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_Challenge_2002

this is an excellent post b, especially your incorporation of the
background on the latest american terrorist attack in yemen, murdering
an 8 year old american girl-child in the process, and your clear
assessment of zero opposition among the political class to the tnc
bush-obama-trump 'new american century'.
excellent.

Where have we seen this type of prolitariat issues driven pseudo
intellectual 'we have all of the answers' ideo driven Putsch before?
1923 Munich, 1917 Russia, Iran 1953, etc., etc.
The US unipress are all screaming the same story. Impeach, as a first measure.
A lot of money is Being spent to maintain the authorship of the
collective MSM reality. Monies most likely stolen from US taxpayers?
Legal US citizens purchased in excess of 100,000,000 guns during
Osama's eight years in office. Does anyone really believe that the
common citizen can't read the Bolshevik hand writing on the proverbial
wall? Even if it is written in hebrew?
Lot of blood will be spilt before this is all over, if it will ever end?
Just me opinion

@ 18
Yes, I echo jfl's sentiment that this is a very good post. Thanks, b.
My apologies, jfl, for things I said which I did not mean, and I
appreciated your response, which was classy - it was a bad day at the
office for me that day.
Apart from everything else Trump has done what he said he would do.
And almost to the letter. After this can politics as usual ever be the
same? Theresa May said she would put employees on the boards of
companies before being annointed. As I watched her deliver those words I
knew that was the last we would hear about it.
At Syria Perspective there's a commenter called Canthama who is well worth following for the very recent stuff.

Regarding the U.S. Yemen raid ordered by Trump, Pentagon officials
issued a statement making no mention of civilian casualties and even
refused to say whether there were civilian casualties and as a result,
some of the media are reporting that there were NO civilian casualties;
in addition, a Pentagon official stated no prisoners were taken.
However, an anonymous source did say civilian casualties could not be
ruled out.http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-yemen-qaeda-idUSKBN15D08J
This is a blatant effort to conceal the facts. Why try to hide the
fact that civilians were killed and prisoners were taken unless they're
going to be rendered and tortured then killed extra-judicially?

Great post.
Of course the left-wing, deep state, and corporate media in the US
are hypocrites. They always have been. The central issue is about power.
The ruling elites want continual wars to keep the populous in line.
(and yes, the conservatives are hypocrites as well)
If you really want the west "to become a more just and social
society" then you need to lobby for vastly reduced power in their
governments. A relatively laissez faire economy with strong property
rights (classical liberalism) built the west by letting people cooperate
with each other through the market.
Unfortunately, an economy unfettered by the State will make everyone
more prosperous but far less equal as some will be much richer than
others. Leftists can't seem to handle that part even if all are better
off.
The problem is not that we need to reduce the corruption and evil in
the politicians; the problem is how to do away with the State that gives
these mad men so much power over the masses.

Dear prime minister Trudeau,
A big and sincere thank you for reaffirming Canada's core values as
you promptly and effectively took action in support of refugees and dual
citizens from the 7 countries sanctioned by the new American
administration.
However ... there would be no refugees from Yemen when you stop
selling Saudi Arabia $15,000,000,000 worth of arms that the Wahhabi
kingdom is using 24/7 to kill and scare away Yemenis
And there would be no Syrian refugees if you, and Qatar and Saudi
Arabia and Erdogan stop supporting (and arming and financing and
training) religious extremists trying, for 6 years, to overthrow the
Syrian government.
Your alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood is not the way you can
express solidarity with Canadian or Syrian Muslims... selling arms to
the evil wahabi kingdom is not a contribution to a safer Middle East ...
Please take the time to reflect on how you can best put into practice Canada's moral values.https://www.facebook.com/camille.otrakji/posts/10155692379757977?pnref=story

Jeez b talk of whataboutery - who gives a toss what Oblamblam did we
criticised him then, but now we are meant to the let trumpet off - why?
Your post reeks of hypocrisy in that you say political grandstanding
from Oblamblam is bad but when the current cunt does it it, that is OK?
What BS - they are both assholes.
On this Trump is a bigger asshole than the other since his garbage is
ruining more lives more profoundly than Obama shot at racist populism.
Why is it that people have to have one side 'good' and the other side
'bad' when both sides are low scumbags.
It's like the whole Syrian thing; where anyone with half a brain or more
could see that the terrorist violence created by amerika, the gulf
states and all the eurohangers-on was bad no problem, but some dingbats
decided if those guys were evil that meant the Ba'ath mob must be good.
As if everything is a TV show with the good guys Vs the bad guys when
the reality is they are all evil, just that some are doing worse than
others.
This is why humans keep getting stuck with these awful political
structures, some daft drongo derps just cannot see past the bullshit.
It matters - the most evil ethos currently practiced across the planet,
neoliberalism came into being in exactly that manner. People hated the
small minded pettiness of the previous system so they foolishly,
unquestioningly supported a band of greedy sociopaths who promised to
get rid of the centralised interference in their life.
Since hardly anyone questioned the motivations beyond the headlines, and
any attempt to oppose the assholes was met with whataboutery exactly
like the dross you have posted, the neoliberals took over and now it is
gonna be a real prick of a job to get rid of them.
Whatever comes next will also need to be properly scrutinised and not
dismissed with schoolboy whines of "But mummy he did it first".

Looks like a Wahhabi Caliphate will rule the Muslim Middle East
thanks to Heir Trump. Basically, Trump wants to bring in the Saudis and
UAE in on his Safe Zones plan. No wonder Zionists have been
cozying up to the Wahhabi monarchs; they want their help to neutralize
the entire region. They don't need ISIS and AQ anymore to destabilize
for a takeover! Obama wouldn't commit to safe zones, but they have
TRUMP's blessing now. Trump is inviting the foxes into the hen house to
gorge themselves.
Basically this will be a forcible occupation of Syria and Yemen.
We'll see how Heir Trump plans to secure this shit; drones, fighter
jets, Black Hawks patrolling a no-fly zone? And he's already stirring
the pot with these Wahhabis on Iran. This is gonna be a blood bath.

“The President requested and the King agreed to support safe
zones in Syria and Yemen, as well as supporting other ideas to help the
many refugees who are displaced by the ongoing conflicts,” the White
House said in a statement.
“They also agreed on the importance of rigorously enforcing the Joint
Comprehensive Plan of Action with Iran and of addressing Iran’s
destabilizing regional activities.”
Trump also spoke with Abu Dhabi Crown Prince Sheikh Muhammad bin
Zayid Al Nuhayyan. The two discussed the Islamic State of Iraq &
Syria (ISIS) and the crown prince agreed to support safe zones to
protect refugees in the Middle East.

What surprises me is just how easily people are letting themselves be
manipulated. It does not take an advanced degree to pay attention and
compare and contrast the policies of leaders from different parties.
There is, for now, a wealth of information on the internet from sources
far and wide that shed light onto the nefarious being planned in our
capitals.
And yet...and yet people still take "the news" as gospel and simply
believe and take at face value what they are being told. (Research?
Scepticism? Thinking CRITICALLY? You must be mad, son I trust the person
on TV reading from a teleprompter.) Watching these events unfold one
can almost see the public twitch and jump as the puppet masters control
their minds and tell them when to get outraged and at whom.
For all too many people if "it" happened but wasn't shown in the MSM
over and over again "it" did not happen. Conversely, if "it" did NOT
happen yet "it" got airtime and column inches in the MSM propaganda
networks and papers "it" in fact happened.
So Obama's drone war, extrajudicial executions and discrimination
against Muslims? Never happened. But by God is that Trump a uniquely
evil dude! The SAA and its allies slaughtering civilians in Aleppo
despite compelling evidence suggesting this was fake news pure spun out
of whole cloth? Come on, everyone knows the SAA and the Russians are the
evil bad guys and the rebels are secular feminist hippies. You must be
an Assadist!
I am human (more or less) like the stooges that fall for propaganda
time and time again and I live in the same world as they do (more or
less)...so why is it that they are so gullible, naive, stupid or
whatever? Are they scared that if they know the truth their carefully
organized world will fall to pieces and they will be adrift in darkness
with nothing to give them comfort? Is it possible they are wilfully
deluding themselves to stave off existential despair and anomie? There
is a massive research project in this for psychologists, social
psychologists and neuroscientists. But in this neoliberal dystopia who
will fund and back an in-depth examination of western propaganda
techniques and how they influence people in semi-open societies?
This is just the beginning of the ride. The neoliberal faction of the
establishment is going to keep doubling down on the lectures, selective
outrage and trying to get their people into office. Will they be
shocked when far-right parties start winning elections in the EU. Then
what? Martial law and a slow slide into civil war and the collapse of
the moribund west?

@26 I hope Putin and his people aren't gullible enough to believe
they have an honest, fair dealing partner in Trump. Russia, Iran and
China must stick together and not let the Americans break them apart
with their divide and conquer tactics.

Agreed, there is much hypocrisy in the current outcry against
Tronald, but despite that it's correct to heavily criticize his moves.
One can't wait till he starts WW3. (And that Clinton would have done
seemingly catastrophic is no reason to spare him.)

At the core of the West is a vile and despicable hypocrisy.
It feeds the 'indispensable and exceptional' lunacy in the US.
Killing millions? So what, our boy is doing it.
Later: the horrors, the other party guy is doing it.
Or: so what?
Screw it, the hell with the US.

It is interesting to see the Western MSM hating on Trump in many ways
similar to the way they hated on George Dubya in 2000. And then not
long afterwards, the oh so convenient 9/11 attacks happened which had
the MSM not only tolerating, but actively pimping for war and mayhem
across the Middle East. Will the US once again receive another
convenient attack on its soil which will justify (in the regime media's
eyes) all of Trump's bellicose policies? If Clinton had won the
Presidency, then the media would largely have ignored (or at least been
an apologist for) her warmongering abroad, as they were under Obama for 8
years. They would have framed it all as R2P, except for when the
Israelis inevitably slaughtered another 3000 Palestinians of course. But
the thing is Trump needs a unifying event. He needs a new Pearl Harbor.
I just wonder....

See also ongoing conflict between Houthis and Saudi-US backed Mansour Hadi forces:http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2017/01/29/over-100-killed-in-clashes-between-yemeni-govt-houthis
Russia appears to be supporting the Huthi opposition over the Saudi-sponsored Hadi government:https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20170125-russia-envoy-meets-with-top-houthi-diplomat-in-yemen/
I wonder if this will become a Saudi/Trump - Putin/Iran discussion topic?
Obviously, the inclusion of Iran on both the Obama-era "Visa Waiver
Improvement Act" (which was to be fair pushed by Republicans in
Congress) and the Trump executive order had nothing to do with vetting
potential terrorists from the region; it was likely aimed at appeasing
Israeli and Saudi interests.
Note also that the alliance between Saudi Arabia and the US to attack Yemen was clearly an Obama-era decision:SAUDI MILITARY OPERATIONS AGAINST THE HOUTHIS CONTINUE, Dec 2009
That's a State Department cable about Saudi demands for more military
assistance from the United States to bomb Yemen; Obama clearly gave that
assistance. It's equally obvious that the covert action program
targeting Syria was another Obama-era project, initiated once it became
clear that Syria was not going to cut its ties with Iran. Hillary
Clinton, absolute Israeli-Netanyahu loyalist, was certainly a major
driving force behind both actions.
The American public seems generally oblivious to much of this, but
I'd agree with xor (@4) that the backlash against Trump is somewhat
pushing these issues out into the open, and throwing various wrenches
into the behind-the-scenes Deep State promotion of war and
destabilization in the Middle East. Hillary Clinton would have been
running a no-fly zone over Syria and risking WWIII with Russia by now,
in contrast, with the media cheering her on. This is a much, much better
scenario.
Trump is taking a severe PR beating by the U.S. media, that's for sure: CNN found the case of a family of Syrian Christians who were turned around after flying into the US and put back on a plane
out, ouch for Trump. The ol' WaPo basically claims that this will make
covert regime change in Iran that much more difficult, more the
Obama-Clinton line. Iran's response seems reasonable and moderate in
contrast:

"While respecting the American people and distinguishing
between them and the hostile policies of the U.S. government, Iran will
implement the principle of reciprocity until the offensive U.S.
limitations against Iranian nationals are lifted," the statement says.

The Iranians are coming out of this looking all angelic, aren't they?
They even said they'd graciously allow those who've already been given
visas to travel without restrictions. I predict Saudi and Israeli
consternation; the Saudi street will not appreciate a Trump-Saud love-in
after this. Hilarious. Stock up on popcorn, this is going to be a long
show.

Yes, absolutely Obama supporters are being hypocrites, but I would
not call them liberal as they are nothing close to previous generations
of democrats. I don't call republicans conservative either as the
republican party certainly in practice is not conservative. Party
partisans will take on any belief they are told to take. If Hillary told
the democratic party to tatoo her face on their asses, they would
gladly do it, and call it ia victory for the party. The republican base
thought Obama was a Muslim, and the democratic base has been told Trump
is a secret Russian spy--and both bases belief the bullshit of their
political masters. It goes back to what Gore Vidal and others have
said--one party, two wings.
Both wings of the Property Party are now essentially organized around
identity politics, and as would be expected the same hatreds are
expressed in different vocabularies. Democrats now talk about Russia in
the same way as Trump talks about Mexicans and Muslims. Trump policies
seem to be evolving toward Hillary's policies like those on NATO and
Russian sanctions. Safe places? Whose foreign policy won out?

@30 Yes, that's it exactly.
But the mental gymnastics and self-deception one has to practice in
order to be tone-deaf to blatant hypocrisy is alien to me...how do these
people do it? And why?? It's almost like they need a leader to worship
and obey blindly. And once they have chosen a leader he/she can do no
wrong in their eyes. Yet when their leader's Party accuses the guy from
the other party of doing what their leader did: silence.
There is something pathological about this.

Of course liberals were blind to Obama's sins. That was why the ptb
got him elected. They play the electorate like little dolls, twisting
one way and then the other, racheting up the tension points so we can
all go mad. But I'll say this: it was no fun to talk about Obama's
neoliberal crimes when all my friends thought he was the best thing
since sliced (dark rye) bread. Being in the opposition, now that's
exciting and fun. Especially against someone as hamfisted as the current
prez. 'Twill be interesting to see how this movement holds up when the
gloves come off, à la the demise of Occupy.
I'd say the main difference between O's immigration ban and T's, is
that T also shut down travel for holders of green cards, legal residents
of the US.

Is an attack in Yemen against an al Queda-linked warlord a sign that
Trump is faking his 'America First' principles? That is unclear at best
(and I would argue, no).
I think some need to be reminded why the establishment hates Trump:
Trump's 'America First' policy orientation is against the interests of
the neocon-Saudi-Israeli alliance (aka "The Empire"). Until a
real progressive movement arises, criticism of Trump is driven by the
Democratic Party and their wealthy (establishment) donors.
Among other things, 'America First' means:

Debs @ 24 said.."Why is it that people have to have one side 'good' and the other side 'bad' when both sides are low scumbags."
Exactly debs, there's really no mystery here. It's the same old
story. Divide the populace, and you win. right, left, blue, red etc.
etc. Meanwhile, it's the same new boss, just like the old boss. The REAL
conflict is class, nothing but. Money vs. the working classes. As old
as humanity.

During the 'election' fever i posed this question,
'whats the odds that the next potus [clinton/trump] would be different from the previous 44 war mongers ???
Ans
by ian fleming's fundamental law of probability,
the chance is practically ZERO.once is accidence, twice could be coincidence, thrice.....enemy action !
Why'd anybody be surprised ?
meet the new boss, same as old boss !agenda never changes, only tacticsAs the Public Squabbles, Continuity of Agenda Marches Onhttp://journal-neo.org/2017/01/27/the-trump-media-circus-and-continuity-of-agenda/

Mr. Trump could win me over in one day. He has thousands of
employees. Raise their wages, provide real healthcare, and start making
some of the products he hawks, here in the U$A.
Sacrifice some of his wealth to elevate his workers lives. Think that'll happen, I don't.
Prove me wrong Mr. Trump, please.

#1
b: “In 2011 Obama stopped processing Iraqi visa requests for six month.
That move was quite similar to Trump's current one. Where was the outcry
in 2001? In 2011, 2015 and 2016? ”
‘scuse me, but you apparently are missing something. DumboDon’s
suddenly jerking visas away from people who are legally enroute to
return to the US and who hold valid, legal, authentic visas, is not
“quite similar” to Obama’s suspension of visa requests.
And the reason I mention it is that a visa and a visa request are
obviously two different things. A person who has filed a visa request
has no rights to enter the US whatsoever, and no rights under the
Constitution. A person with a valid green card or other valid visa does
have such rights, which is why Judge Donnelly entered the order that,
essentially, kicked DumboDon in the nuts.
#2
b: “Nothing really relevant has changed.”
Uh . . . ‘scuse me again. When this DumboDon puts a Breitbart-clown
on the list of top national security advisers, EVERYTHING has changed.
#3
b: “Where are the protests demanding the repeal of the Patriot Act?
Where are the anti-war protests? These died as soon as Obama came into
office. They never came back even as Obama pursued polices that were, at
best, Republican light and far from any progressive ideal. Only fake
liberals, aka "libruls", could agree with these.”
Bingo!! Give the man the Kewpie doll! And don’t forget how the
flamin' fems shut their mouths about women’s rights when Bilton was
impeached and lied about his attempted rape of Paula Jones.
#4
What the MSM are missing is the point that DumboDon's EO was changed
drastically just before it was signed. The draft included Section 6,
which was about setting up the "safe zones." I think Putin's people
talked DD out of that one. Section 6 was removed. For now.
Both versions of the EO linked to from here: http://logophere.com/Topics2017/17-01/17_005-Opinion-Trump%20EO.htm

Thank you b for an objective analysis.
Little to add to my posts from the previous thread ... am still very
surprised as to how easily people can be so easily emotively triggered
by the MSM ... conditioned(?).
Note John McCain & Lindsey Graham in issuing a 'Joint Statement'
are against it, those champions of Human Dignity, Life, Civil &
Human Rights, & WAR!*24/7 ?! Note the 'talking points' they make,
along with wilful misrepresentations and therefore whose interests they
clearly represent in the following link ...
Note, the Trump faction first executed an internal coup within the
GOP establishment & leadership, before they won the election/s. This
situation is not the old Dems again' the old GOP, anymore.

... speaking on CBS, Mr McCain said the execution of the order has been confusing and could be problematic.
"I think the effect will probably, in some areas, give IS some more propaganda," he said.
Mr Trump took to twitter to respond to the senators' joint statement writing: "The
joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain and
Lindsey Graham is wrong — they are sadly weak on immigration.
"The two senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal
immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World
War III."

Thank you b for an objective analysis.
Little to add to my posts from the previous thread ... am still very
surprised as to how easily people can be so easily emotively triggered
by the MSM ... conditioned(?).
Note John McCain & Lindsey Graham in issuing a 'Joint Statement'
are against it, those champions of Human Dignity, Life, Civil &
Human Rights, & WAR!*24/7 ?! Note the 'talking points' they make,
along with wilful misrepresentations and therefore whose interests they
clearly represent in the following link ...
Note, the Trump faction first executed an internal coup within the
GOP establishment & leadership, before they won the election/s. This
situation is not the old Dems again' the old GOP, anymore.

...speaking on CBS, Mr McCain said the execution of the order has been confusing and could be problematic.
"I think the effect will probably, in some areas, give IS some more propaganda," he said.
Mr Trump took to twitter to respond to the senators' joint statement writing: "The
joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain and
Lindsey Graham is wrong — they are sadly weak on immigration.
"The two senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal
immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World
War III."

@31 Nick
Yes, but instead of the gift of 9/11 for W so we could rally around
our fuckhead in chief, look for something a little less beneficial for
Trump so we can rally around his ouster. I don't think Americans are
that stupid to go along with "Trump crashed the economy," right?
Uh-oh...

Great timing, b!
Just yesterday I revisited a National Press Club.au Address from late
July, 2016, by one of my favourite Yankee nitwits - P J O'Rourke. PJ was
in Oz to smear Trump and began his address to the Press Club thus...
"I've just flown in from the US of A or, as I like to think of it, Australia with 278 million more idiots."

If I'm not mistaken, hiring illegals is against the law. Where is the
movement to punish employers who hire them? Seems to me, that, would be
a good first step, but I've yet to hear it even mentioned. Is e-verify
still in operation?
As far as ISIS is concerned, one phone call to SA, threatening our business relationships might do it.
I'm still waiting.

@32 nonsense factory.. thank you for your post with links...
@ b.. i didn't comment on the number of folks dead, thanks us
exceptionalism expressed in yemen.. that is more of the same horrible
dynamics and i can't say i expected any of this to change under trump...
it seems to confirm just how ''in bed'' with the saudi's the usa is..
nonsense factory's links help confirm this as well..
it is hard not to look at the usa as one pathetic 'exceptional'
nation as it careens down a steep hill headed for ground zero.. i look
forward to a real wake up call to the many folks living in that country.
it can't happen soon enough..

#50
Exactly. Too many "Americans" willing to be insulted by Trump. The
2nd amendment folks might handle this, but then the US has the Ayatollah
Pence to contend with.
I say, let the women take care of the short-fingered vulgarian and
carve a cross for Pence. Ryan, the coward would be gone by then.

Although vast majority of protesters are paid protesters by Soros
NGOs they are people who bought the lie that Trump is a reincarnated
evil.
And in fact it hard to argue with this lies unless one brings to the
picture all 44 previous reincarnated evils and their army of minions i.e
evil of the very US empire.
So what are they afraid of?
Will we have openly fascist anti-women dictatorship in the US under
Trump soon and that's why this sudden rush? No. Not a chance.
The American inverted totalitarianism of S. Wolin is much more
effective as it muddles the true intentions and hides absolute unity of
objectives shared by the rulers as well as their absolute class
morality, solidarity and unity recently not so hidden under nameless
government institutions, NGOs, opposition parties, MSM and other social
institutions or corporations forming a unified core of the USA Inc., as a
227 y.o. abhorrent Anglo-American corporate regime created of the
elite, for the elite, but not by the elite but rather by stolen hard
work of millions exploited or murdered slaves and working poor.

A lie about petition of this calcified inhumane regime to remedy
people’s grievances is one such a Kafkaesque plots of the inverted
totalitarianism, or false political choice peddled unfortunately by
phony opposition, a tale of “fake” peaceful transition of power where
there is none or phony free speech rights for gagged populace etc., are
all phantoms of unreality all the [ruling elite backed] influence
peddlers are pushing on desperate population of witting or unwitting
slaves, called US citizen.
The biggest advantage of the inverted totalitarianism is that it
maintains an illusion of possibility of reform or change by faking a
social/political environment of unpredictability of nonexistent public
opinion replaced by a astroturf clandestine operation or possibility of
change where there is only authoritarian sociopolitical command and
control regime we live our strictly regimented lives under while
believing we are having rich social and political live.
Inverted totalitarianism is very effective in confusing, manipulating
people, dividing people and instigating conflicts that leave ruling
elite outside the scope of any struggle or even realm of existence
making them arbiters of mitigation or resolution of problem they caused
themselves.
Open brutality however, is extremely costly and still has one big
flaw, it identifies enemy and hence unifies people in their assessment
about who they are fighting against and that is a first step to
defeating it.
Only open revolt would make ruling elite to drop this mascara of
political farce and only when their very lives or survival as a power
center would be threatened.
But this particular two millions marching women is not a revolt, it
is not a rebellion or beginning of any true revolution but an attempt to
preempt it and usurp it. It is a product of inverted totalitarianism.
It serves a purpose of mass intimidation of those hundreds of millions
of poor hard working women in the US and all over the world oppressed
the same way today and yesterday a month ago, a years ago or decades ago
but who did not succumb to politically motivated partisan women
activist orthodoxy of hate against a repugnant flat TV persona, a
scapegoat, a diversion from previous crimes of the ruling elite.
What more outrageous is that all this hatred is peddled by a
Hollywood members of the same power elite of rich and opulent
celebrities that Trump is a creation of, and where he truly belongs. How
credible is their outrage?
All those fiery women celebrity speakers know well where their class
morality resides and where their personal loyalty resides and where
their financial interests reside while falsely claiming a kind of
kinship with desolated, raped, mistreated poor women, as John Lennon
sang “women [who] are [treated also by the ruling elite as] N.. of the
world, only because they are too having their vaginas.
It is a lie, they have more in common with abhorrent Trump than with
any hard working, two jobs holding woman. Even they often become poor
women worst enemies by contributing to Hollywood productions peddling
attitudes of misogyny, hatred and belittlement of womanhood or turning
women into violent machines, robots, or submissive brainless animals.
Those are paid militants, messengers of chaos to obfuscate reality of
vicious class war, a war against working class women and men and their
children who are craving among anything stability, physical and economic
safety and most of all they want love and unity in their families and
communities that are continuously under attack by MSM/Hollywood
anti-woman propaganda and devastating economic war pushing them onto a
brink of survival.
Hollywood movie or corporate music or TV starlets cannot and will not
make a desperately needed revolution happen since they only know how to
pretend on a fake set of unreality show that’s all they are good for
and that for what they are being paid namely for a harmful also to women
mass deception.
We must not be fooled. They are fake leftists, deceitful phony
puppets of this ugly regime attempting to hijack true rebellion before
it spills all over the country.
When real revolution comes they all, despicable secular influence
peddlers of propaganda and entertainment industry, [analogous to
biblical daemons], will be swept away together with Trump and his
minions to the hell of condemned and forgotten where they all equally
belong for being apologists of exploitation, intimidation, torture and
murder of poor, working women, men and children as long as paychecks
were coming.http://www.counterpunch.org/2017/01/24/the-womens-march-was-a-dismal-failure-and-a-hopeful-sign/
The Ionesco theater of absurd continues and Trump is being decried
for acts considered Obama virtues with the only purpose of that: Setting
up a phony controlled opposition to hijack the true revolutions that is
brewing.

@27 Temporarily Sane
Cannot agree more with your sentiments. The major alternate MSM reality
has totally flipped, 180°, with the Trump election - what was 'right' is
now 'wrong'...and nothing changed but for one man...even Circe must be
forced to admit how easily Trump has exposed this retarded hypocrisy.
You might well have seen it, but if not you may find useful the film 'Propaganda.'
A severe, often graphic, critique upon western culture from the Evil
North Korean perspective, 'smuggled' out to order to help cure what ails
us. It owns a very unique 'share' value and I have found it quite a
powerful device.
TIP: Using the YouTube link alone when sharing achieves the true red pill effect...means to the already unplugged MofA'ers

Not really, the Democrats were careful to keep these things under
warps and incrementally bring them in...sort of the 'slow boiling frog'
syndromes.
Not everyone is right up all the politics and issues going on and the
US media, by and large worked along with that by simply not bringing
things up. A big thing for those who did know was trying to get the word
out to others.
Now it is right out in the open and far more people realise what is happening and they are rightly enraged.
No point in criticising them because they didn't know what was going
on when there were determined efforts to keep them from finding out.
It is a silly argument, might as well argue that someone who has just
found out their child is being abused is some sort of hypocrite because
they didn't act beforehand .....

The U.S., like many other "western" countries, needs
fundamentally different policies and politicians to become a more just
and social society. The "librul" outcries take energy away from
achieving such.

I'd say the best policy change would be to give Iran equal status as
Israel and Saudi Arabia. This would be a real shot across the bow; a
yuge sea change on American foreign policy in the Middle East. There are
many benefits to this approach. The Persian people are decent people,
take a look, certainly not any worse than the Israelis and the Saudis:Iranians condemn Trump's 'racist' visa ban
Al Jazeera English
I also like what Tulsi Gabbard had to say about her trip to Syria;
it's been buried by the mass media in the US but here's the discussion
on CNN via a secondary source (which I can't vouch for, clip of Tusli
Gabbard starts at 0:35 - notice how CNN repeats the discredited claim
about Assad using chemical weapons against his own people?)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FazxlJsifJ4
And getting back to b's point, Tulsi Gabbard is one of the few
politicians I could wholeheartedly support. But then, the last one I
felt that way about was Gabrielle Giffords of Arizona, and some Koch
Brothers / McCain-Palin fanatic shot her in the face, so I think Gabbard
should have good security around her, having delivered such a kick to
the balls to the Deep State apparatus.

harrylaw@17 - Re: Millenium Challenge, aka Van Riper's Revenge. The
only words that come to mind are 'and hilarity ensues'. Anyone that's
ever had the misfortune to participate in U.S. military exercises of
this sort has to love Van Riper to death. Read a great account of this
last year by Micah Zenko on War on the Rocks site: MILLENNIUM CHALLENGE: THE REAL STORY OF A CORRUPTED MILITARY EXERCISE AND ITS LEGACY.
Of course, any self-reflection and lessons learned were entirely lost
on the post-911 empty-headed military careerists enjoying their
media-manufactured valor. Bush was entirely too dim to understand what
it all meant, and Cheney didn't care. I certainly can't speak from the
point of having any secret insider Pentagon knowledge of the situation
today, but I have little reason to think ANYTHING has changed in the
last decade and a half. In fact, I'm almost certain it has become much
worse. Bush and Obama have both overseen waves of witch-hunts for loose
cannons like Van Riper.
Whatever Unicorn Trident
purports to do, it will most certainly not reflect reality. CENTCOM's
Naval side is running this exercise (more like a drill, but far more
expensive and useless) with a British admiral in charge [biting my
tongue here]. It will be rigidly scripted to ensure no hilarity ensues
this time. It's being held in an imaginary place called the 'Arabian
Gulf' - our Saudi suck-up military still refuses to call it the Persian
Gulf.
I would like to think that the three-day exercise isn't nearly enough
time for them to really blow this, but it only took Van Riper ten
minutes to sink the Blue team's naval task force if I recall correctly.
Unicorn Trident will not have any Van Ripers spoiling the show. If there
is an opposition force, it will be under the command of some useless
tool like Gen. John Allen - the former CENTCOM head who leads the
(supposed) anti-ISIS campaign.
The Blue Team is bound to win this time around. Yay! Too bad. Think
of what a service to the world Iran would be doing if it did take out
all the Gulf nations on the other side of the Persian Gulf. Terrorism
across half the earth would pretty much grind to a halt overnight. If we
had any brains, we would PAY them to attack the Saudis and GCC.

@42The draft included Section 6, which was about setting up the "safe
zones." I think Putin's people talked DD out of that one. Section 6 was
removed.
Safe Zones are NOT off the table! Trump gave DoD a mandate to come
up with a plan on safe zones in 90 days and just today Trump recruited
the support of the Saudis and UAE for safe zones in Syria and Yemen.
@36
You have just demonstrated with that propaganda list what a tool you
really are for Trump. FYI, Trump is already collaborating with the
Saudis and Israelis recruiting the Saudis for his planned safe zones in
Syria and Yemen today by phone and banning Iranians from entry to the
U.S. to satisfy the Saudis and Israelis and making threats regarding
Iran during his phone call to the Saudis. So Trump is Empire Inc.
You have lost the last shred of credibility with that comment. I agree with @44 - you're that transparent.

I appreciate b's solid analysis. There are times when the question
of who is administering policy disasters is actually overshadowed those
who are driving the bandwagon, selling it, beautifying and justifying
one aggression and covert crime after another. I'm speaking of the
mainstream gatekeepers, editors who snuff out crucial stories. With
their cooperation the burial of absolutely vital facts has been worked
in concert. The MSM superintends news blackouts. It has become the meta
network of lies of omission. To some extent the public has caught on.
One thing that I take from b's post, is the idea that if the "liberal
press" keeps up its current strategy, along with an all out militancy
against Trump, it will only help the new president to consolidate his
political power, while convincing enough of the people that the media is
just serving an agenda which is not properly its own, but is the
reflection of some kind of institutional base, maybe corporate, or
somehow a hidden aspect of the power structure.
The idea that the mainstream press is controlled, and has been
controlled, is thereby reinforced. A smarter approach is to limit the
damage the administration might do, or influence its policy for the
better,--which might mean giving encouragement to the president, if, or
when, different and more constructive impulses surface.
The howl of a compromised press corps, whom few particularly trust, is not going to drive Donald Trump from the White House.

nonsense factory@56 - Gabbard is perfectly safe. While she rails
against U.S. actions in Syria, she is 100% behind the U.S. coup and
continuing genocide in Ukraine and is staunchly anti-Russian and
pro-Israeli. She understands who it is that cannot be criticized. I like
her position regarding arming terrorists, but I would not quite want
her to have the nuclear codes just yet. She's young - maybe she'll
learn.

@ Posted by: nonsense factory | Jan 29, 2017 10:41:51 PM | 56
The Iranians are not and never have been the possessed 'Demon Spawn'
the propagandists constantly acclaim and misrepresent. They are not a
Terrorist State, nor terrorists. Exactly the opposite, in fact. Indeed.
We have sustained a duplicate policy re Cuba towards Iran/Iranians
ever since they threw us, our installed dictator the Shah (since 1953),
our & UK 'corporations' & 'Investments'/'Grants' and our
(CIA/Mossad) Evil creation, SAVAK,
etc out in '79. They recreated by hand the shredded classified
documents from the Embassy & the Local CIA Station, & publicly
displayed 'em, long before Wikileaks. ;)
The Trump faction appears to have swallowed whole and assimilated the
narrative re Iran since '79, especially DODSec Mattis ... see little
chance they will suddenly become, 'aware' re Iran. :(
The CNN interview was startling for the delusional fixed narrative of
'Jake Tapper'(?), as opposed to an intelligent, thoughtful, humanist
and fact based series of responses by Gabbard, who cut him off at the
knees, oh so politely. Clapper(?) had no effective comeback once his
blatant Framing & Snares/Traps were neutered. A disgustingly willing
servant of Evil & Inhumanity. Note, once posted on youtube,
multiple incomplete, edited versions were uploaded ... hm?
Yes, Gabbard gives every indication of being earnest, sincere &
genuine re her statements. Hence, she better have excellent personal
security & avoid charter planes & boats ...
Re Western Democracies (Global?) Inverted Totalitarianism and what is
occurring re the MSM and the ongoing long term project of incremental
nullification, pacification, diversion & manipulation of any
effective dissent ...

Been reading this blog for a while. Seems to me that this b character
has his head screwed on right. Question though can a screwed head ever
be correct? Right, I suppose, or maybe even left?
Found this in an article "The real Doomsday clock passed midnight
long ago. The mad race to extinction fueled by the market-forces laissez
faire Western system has created a monster: a system that is not really
controlled by anyone, but drives itself with only one imperative – to
become richer and more powerful, so as to become richer and more
powerful.
This monster has no soul; it was not constructed to look after life
on the planet. Following the nuclear fallout, and nuclear energy
accidents, the depleted Uranium, and now the fracking, background
radioactivity is continuously increasing. The fertility rate is
falling. IVF is advancing. Cancer is an epidemic in real terms. This is
the way the world ends. Not with a bang, but a whimper."
That's hard. You guys whimper almost enough for the whole world. But,
I'll continue reading your drivel. It is kinda funny. I suppose.

Trump is certainly wasting no time fulfilling promises. It looks like
he'll gt wall going and he's tearing up trade deals left and right.
What all that means ultimately for US relations with its neighbors is
above my pay grade.
Now he's forging ahead with his immigration policy. Once again it's
exactly what he said he would do. Trump's overall ME policy hasn't been
made public yet so we really don't know what it is. It's telling that
KSA didn't make the shit list but not surprising. It's also not
surprising that Iran and Lebanon made the list. The Yanks will never
consider Hezbollah and its sponsor Iran as anything other than
terrorists after the Marine barracks bombing all those years ago.
It's the next part of Trump's immigration plan that is really going
to test the waters. It's going to involve sweeps looking for
undocumented people. That means doors being kicked down in the middle of
the night. It will mean families being torn apart and it will mean
large detention facilities. He has given no assurances that "Dreamers",
people who were brought stateside as children, will be afforded any
leniency. It's not going to be pretty and I'm wondering how Trump
apologists will spin it.
Maybe Trump will reconsider that part of his agenda. He's ordered an
expansion of ICE so maybe it's on. A shout out to all Sheriff Joe Arpaio
lovers, you're gonna see his way of operating on a national scale. But I
believe that a large majority of Americans will feel revulsion and
shame as Hispanics are subjected to abuse. George Soros won't have to
cut any checks to get them out on the streets.

Circe @59
That's Trump's agenda, you moron. Who wins and who loses when that
agenda is implemented indicates who is against him. Who wants America to
be politically weak and easily manipulated?
Everyone is looking for a sign that Trump is just more of the same. I have yet to see a clear sign of that.
Only a dipshit like you would "mis-read" my point and try to turn it into something else.

Thanks for the post....share thoughts re liberal hypocrisy- it is
more than cognitive dissonance. there is a willful resistance to
looking with a different lens....they really believe in their own
superiority and that only they have the answers. there exude an
amazing sense of entitlement and elitism..fear they are unreachable
here is Trumps's presidential memo issued january 28th re Plan for defeating ISIS - safety zones appear to have been removed https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/28/plan-defeat-islamic-state-iraq

It's going to involve sweeps looking for
undocumented people... doors being kicked down in the middle of the
night... families being torn apart and ... large detention facilities.

I
don't know what makes you think that this is the plan. Trump would
have to be pretty dumb to do this when he just needs to deny federal
funding to states/cities that are easy on the undocumented.
If undocumented people can't get access to certain necessities at a
reasonable price - like healthcare and schooling - then they will leave
of their own accord. No need to bust in doors or detain thousands at a
time for processing/trial.

HOAXER SORCHA FAAL WRITES FOR THE SUNDAY TIMES!
The British newspaper of record, The Sunday Times reaches a new level of fake news by emulating the work of the well known internet hoaxer Sorcha Faal of whatdoesitmean.com

Russia holds third man over US hack - The Sunday Times, January 29, 2017
The Kremlin has widened an apparent crackdown on high-level figures implicated in hacking the US presidential elections.
Russian newspapers said last week that Dmitry Dokuchaev, a cyber-spy
and former hacker, had been arrested on Kremlin orders. He was the third
leading agent to be detained on treason charges since Russia’s
interference in the 2016 campaign was exposed.
Sergei Mikhailov, deputy head of information security for the FSB,
the KGB’s successor, and Ruslan Stoyanov, a senior researcher at the
prominent Russian security firm Kaspersky Lab, were reportedly held
earlier in the week.
The developments came as mystery swirled around the unexplained death
of Oleg Erovinkin, a former KGB general turned oil- industry executive,
who has been linked to the salacious Donald Trump dossier.

As Alexander Mercouris in The Duran states,
that source of the article is most likely the British intelligence
service. Like Sorcha Faal and the hoax Trump Dossier, the article claims
to have fly-on-the-wall level knowledge of the inner workings of the
Kremlin and the FSB. It states as fact several thing that are known to
be false or unverifiable: 1) The DNC has hacked, not leaked. 2) Russians
did it. 3) FSB and its well known Information Security Centre (CDC) is responsible for hacking of foreign governments,instead of the secretive SVR and Spets Svyaz.
The Times takes random events and twists them into a conspiracy
narrative, with nothing to tie them together but speculation and
"intelligence". In true Sorcha Faal style, the premature death of an
"ex-KGB general" elevates him into a central role in the conspiracy.
Maybe. The detail is too juicy to be left out of a hoax story.
What really happened is most likely that the leaked Trump Dossier and
the classified 50 page US intelligence report exposed a CIA spy ring
inside FSB. Interestingly it was most likely the CIA or ODNI that leaked
the Trump Dossier.

@42
"And the reason I mention it is that a visa and a visa request are
obviously two different things. A person who has filed a visa request
has no rights to enter the US whatsoever, and no rights under the
Constitution. A person with a valid green card or other valid visa does
have such rights, which is why Judge Donnelly entered the order that,
essentially, kicked DumboDon in the nuts."
Sorry, but this just isn't true. Fact is, you don't even have the
right to re-enter under your US passport if the border agent doesn't
feel inclined to let you in. A friend of mine from NZ experienced that,
and got turned back at LAX. No visit for family, nothing.
In terms of the suspension of human rights and the impairment of
human dignity, the only things worse than borders are prisons. You'll
find numerous cases of American women being raped by the state at the
border to ensure that they aren't transporting drugs. Some even getting
sent the bill afterwards.
I've been reading b for a while, and although I agree with arguments,
I don't care what label someone considered themself before, depending
on what they are resisting and risking to resist now. If an orange
headed man has finally been the last straw to trigger a genuine
response, so be it. Everyone has a breaking point... And I do agree that
the media are trying to channel the protests and protestors to take
actions that don't threaten the existing order. (which very much needs
to be challenged and changed for any of us to have a future that can be
called free) But I hope it fails more often than it succeeds. Only once
people can't be controlled by fear or misinformation to support the
status quo, can the status quo really be upturned.

Not everybody is politically aware or that interested, they have
lives to live, they are busy, they don't have time to trawl through data
and information. They have also been systematically lied to by
politicians and media, that they might have trusted too much.
Doesn't mean they are not good people, who wouldn't do the right thing if they knew what was going on.
In one sense Trump has done a great thing, he has stripped away the
blinders, it is so blatant and cruel that people are reacting in a
visceral manner.
This is a classic example of how people can react when things happen
in front of them and they react in a positive and humane manner.
"Shared by a friend from her friend.
"I am an ObGyn. My hospital is close to an international airport. We get all airport transfers.
Yesterday, we had several pregnant women from the Middle East holding
absolutely valid permanent visas brought in for evaluation and medical
clearance for deportation.
They were terrified, humiliated and exhausted. These women and their
families were good people. Like you. Like me. Educated. Up-standing.
Polite. A scientist. A mom. A classical musician. They live here. They
go to work here. They have dreams here. They are our friends. They are
our neighbors.
My labor and Delivery unit made me proud. They enveloped these women in
their arms. "There, there. It'll all be ok". Even though we didn't know
whether or not it would be. We all did what we could.... Which wasn't
much. We fed them. We gave them water. Hugged them. Cried with them. My
favorite nurse kept apologizing to them. They kept asking why SHE was
apologizing. She said she needed to. For herself.
Even the homeland security officers who stood guard outside their rooms
looked ashamed. They were so young and innocent. I felt so sorry for
them. Why did they have to be the ones to put these good people through
so much unexpected and undeserved pain and chaos. We all treated them
well, also. Brought them tea and graham crackers. I asked them to shake
my hand, on their word of honor, that they would not separate husband
and wife. They did. And they kept their word. The "stay" was called.
Their papers were cleared and they went to their homes. Their homes. 2O
minutes away.
Yesterday, many of you saw detained travelers on TV. I held their hands.
I wiped their tears. I tried to convince them that our country has not
suddenly changed overnight. I know I didn't succeed. But I tried.
What is happening is not hyperbole. It is real. Take my word for it. I saw it. I felt it. I touched it. It broke my heart.
#weareallinthistogether
Edited to add: I took out every possible detail. So if you would like to
share, I'm ok with it. If you block my name, no one will be able to
google to my location. I don't care about getting into trouble myself.
Just don't want to jeopardize their situation. Thx.""

Most intelligent, mature, honest post on this thread:
Posted by: Debsisdead | Jan 29, 2017 6:18:58 PM | 24
Basically says what I wanted to express without a doubt better. Worth re-reading again.
The blame Obama for everything narrative is wearing thin,
while Trump unveils his policies and shows his true colors and, it's
getting really tiresome. Why can't you just accept reality and stop
defending the indefensible with the cover that Obama started it.
Actually it started with Bush/Cheney.
Today, Trump ordered an attack on Yemen and it won't be the last time
he violates the sovereignty of another country, kills civilians and
then tries to hide these facts from the press. Obama did the same in
Waziristan, Pakistan, but Obama's out now; and Trump is responsible for
this attack and all his actions so far.
The Appropriations Act where Section 203 appears restricting visa
access is a bill introduced by a Republican congressman that passed the
House with a Republican majority. Obama threatened to veto the bill but
ended up signing it. What Trump is doing is much worse and he isn't
finished; he's just getting started.
Someone here mentioned Unified Trident which is the name given to
joint war games in the Persian Gulf that will start today for four days
simulating an attack on Iran. They will be led by the U.K. with the
U.S., and France and Australia participating.
In early January, just over two-weeks before Trump took office, a
bill was introduced in the House by the Foreign Affairs Committee
entitled: Authorization of Use of Force Against Iran. This
Bill was intended for Trump as Obama was on his way out. There is
something very fishy about this Bill that basically gives Trump the
authorization for a pre-emptive attack on Iran at any time. The timing
of this bill is very suspicious as is the fact that it was introduced by
the Representative who replaced Wasserman Schultz in her Florida
District. This is AIPAC/Zionist-manoeuvered legislation and there is
more here than meets the eye.
Neither is it a coincidence that six days ago, three Chinese warships
embarked on a tour of Gulf states for the fist time since 2010.
Although in 2014 two Chinese warships visited Iran to conduct naval
exercises with the Iranian Navy. The Chinese are no doubt in the Gulf
to survey Unified Trident military games. It's no coincidence either,
given these military games, that Trump met first with the U.K. PM.
All this is extremely troubling since just yesterday when Trump spoke
with the Saudi King he made threats against Iran. This show of military
force in waters near Iran together with the active bill floating in the
House that gives Trump extraordinary war powers to attack Iran without
oversight is a sign of growing escalation by the U.S. against Iran.
Trump called the Saudis and UAE to get their support on safe zones
for Syria AND Yemen, which basically means occupation by the Empire,
no-fly and Wahhabi takeover. Obama wouldn't touch safe zones; so what
we have here is Obama times ten. No, we have Cheney.
Iran was also included on the banned list with no rational
justification. All this is a gift to Netanyahu who tweeted his 100%
support with Trump's recent actions.
It's time to change the narrative and expose Trump for who he is: a
continuation of the same policies that brought us Iraq, Libya, Yemen and
Syria. Nothing has changed; it's even getting much worse. I've been
repeating that Trump is more of the same on steroids since he won the
election; and Trump is proving me right.
Your commentary would be better if it had been put in a more
constructive way; as Chelsea Manning put it in her most recent column in
the Guardian, yes, criticizing Obama for capitulating, but not making
him the excuse to not criticize Trump's abuse of power, but issuing a
warning and suggestion to progressives. This is the same article that
Trump tweeted on.Ungrateful TRAITOR Chelsea Manning, who should never have been
released from prison, is now calling President Obama a weak leader.
Quit using Obama as the scapegoat for Trump and start holding Trump's feet to the fire.

@65
I didn't mis-read you. You're the most obvious Trump apologist here
and I'm not the only one who sees it. Worse than that (if that's even
possible) your comments are laced with deception.
QUIT WITH THE AD-HOMINEMS.