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Too many characters now?

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Anyone else just...feel that Kingdom Hearts introduced too many characters and too many arcs at once to cover?

I mean...at first it just started off with Sora, Riku, and Kairi. Sora a boy journeying with Donald and Goofy to traverse world to world to defeat the Heartless while fighting Disney villains being the ones behind such chaos in the world. After Maleficent's defeat, Ansem showed himself as the grand scheme of things.

In KH1 there was a balance of importance in both the Disney aspect and the Final Fantasy aspect. The same, I suppose would go for 2, (Doesn't excuse how meaningless the story throughout the worlds are. 3 worlds. 3 Disney WORLDS HAD RELEVANCE.)

However, things soon enough went south, at least in my opinion. The introduction to Xion and YET ANOTHER within Sora, the introduction to Terra, Aqua Ven, Eraques, Vanitas, and Xehanort, to whom we fought his heartless and his nobody...and then his past self made his appearance....and then a NEW Organization 13...and then thousands more Keyblade Weilders from the 'Age of Fairy Tails' as well as the inclusion of the Foretellers, Luxu, and the Master of Master. I don't even know what's going on in Cross(?) but I know there's Ephimere...AND THEN 3 INTRODUCES THIS Mysterious trio between Axel, Siax, and some girl...AND XIGBAR BEING LUXU.

Also Yozora.

With this VAST amount of characters (And Maleficent and Pete are STILL Relevant) it...kinda just makes me see why things just didn't sit well in KH3, and why Disney worlds felt more and more meanigless, and the Final Fantasy count dwindled and dwindled. Perhaps...there's just, too many characters to make a balance between the two. At least this is my thought...I'm...not quite sure.

She's not an "it"!

Nomura said that the reason there were no Final Fantasy characters is because of this issue. There are way too many characters and for the climax that is KH3, he didn't want to add anymore.

I think there's going to be a purge of characters now that some (like Roxas/Xion) got a "happy ending". Also, Sora has been cleansed of clones and they're all out of his heart and their own people. The Xehanort clones are also gone, which means that 6 members of the real Organization XIII are gone for good (I just counted Vanitas in there because I seriously doubt he will ever return). Ansem The Wise's role might be passed onto Ienzo or they might be treated as a duo in the lab and nothing more - a much reduced role than we saw before. Vexen/Even will probably be reduced to the lab as well, if he even shows up again. Aeleus and Dilan will probably be used in the capacity that they were in KH3 moving forward (if they show up again). Riku Replica is officially dead now. The only members from Organization XIII that will have relevance moving forward will be Isa, Emyd, Dorul, Lauriam, and Elrena. Ven will be important too, but I'm not sure about Terra. Aqua will probably be included due to her popularity.

I think the following characters will be used going forward:

Sora

Donald & Goofy

Riku

Kairi

Luxu

The Master of Masters

Axel

Isa

King Mickey

Ventus

Aqua

Emyd

Dorul

Lauriam

Elrena

Ansem The Wise & Ienzo

The Foretellers

If Final Fantasy characters are left out of the main story and just have Disney world appearances, I think that's a decent amount of characters to work with. I think Yozora will be a character in a world and NOT a main character.

Active member

I think with the next title, there'll be a much more dialed back cast. It could've been handled with what we have, but Nomura clearly struggled with making it all flow well (his paraphrased words) and felt there'd be too much exposition, so I think that's a sign that he's probably going to focus on smaller groups from here on.

I like to think that numbered Kingdom Hearts games are basically like the Avengers movies: everyone comes together for the big bad and everything becomes relevant. That's what KH3 essentially tried to do, but wasn't able to neatly tie everything together. And it seems to me that KH4 won't be any different from that. But, now that a lot of people have been saved, so that clears up a lot moving forward.

We have six Foretellers plus the Master of Masters, the remainder of Organization XIII's Somebodies, the new Union leaders and Yozora. A lot of these could be wrapped up in one game if done right. We have Union Cross handing a bunch of stuff at the moment, so it's anyone's guess where this is going to lead. The Foretellers and the Master of Masters are probably going to be the next main title's antagonists, and Yozora... I have absolutely not a clue.

Active member

Yes I believe that he might have introduced too many characters over the whole years. (And too many clones of certain characters) I do hope that he will do less of that in the future and either take out those that already have their ending if he wants new characters, or use the ones we have better if we dont get many new ones.

the only villain on staff

It was too many characters back during KH2 with the Organization. The problem is that while he has characters that could be retired, essentially, they are also linked to characters that are likely going to have significant roles in the next KH games.

For example, Ven is definitely a key player for the new 7 Darknesses/Foretellers + Luxu plot, but how do you keep Terra and Aqua from being a part of his story now that they are all finally back together? There is no way they would let Ven go out on his own. Also, Aqua is a fan favorite.

Subject X, if she ends up being Skuld like we all believe she is, is connected to Lea and Isa, which means Roxas and Xion would be pulled in.

Ephemer(a) is a fan favorite and is clearly going to be important considering his appearance in KH3. (Also right now people think either Ephemer or Brain will end up being the ancestor of Eraqus)

Lauriam and Elrena are coming back. Strelitzia is likely coming back after chatting with Sora in the Final World.

Sora and Riku are the main characters of Kingdom Hearts, of course.

Kairi is a New PoH and Guardian, and obviously people really want her to be utilized better after KH3's bs treatment of her.

There is no way to cut it down without just flat out writing out certain characters and considering how clunky of a way Nomura cut out the RG FF characters in KH3, I'm not really looking forward to seeing how he'd reduce the characters in the next titles...

Dude, Kingdom Hearts appeal was always with the original cast of characters and how they are assimilated in this JRPG Disney world. The key characters of Sora and Riku as the protagonist and deuteragonist has always been a constant for the franchise. That hasn't changed thus far.

All of the background characters are designed to further expand on the stories that Kingdom Hearts can tell. Sora and Riku only have so much story to tell hence why these "background" characters are being further characterised to have more facets and stories of their own.

Inevitably, everybody has favourites with these additional protagonists, and some of their arcs were better executed than others. Ultimately, this large cast has benefitted the franchise in maintaining relevancy.

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."

In the sense that Kingdom Hearts also needs to cover the Disney plots. If KH did just the main story then there'd be plenty of room to cover that and the original cast's roles with little worry about cutting and squeezing.

(>..)>

I just don't see why they don't just start having original characters joining Sora in Disney worlds now. Why must the original characters need to stay regulated to mainly original worlds, because of that they can only get so much screentime.

Not much usually happens in Disney worlds anyway, and with complaints of them still feeling like filler etc at least using them for more development/screentime for the original cast seems like a pretty good idea going forward when you have so many characters now.

Junior Detective

Despite the bloated cast I suspect Nomura will still add more OCs next saga. I mentioned it in another thread but we could start to see more original characters based on FF ones in place of actually cameos

Nomura said that the reason there were no Final Fantasy characters is because of this issue. There are way too many characters and for the climax that is KH3, he didn't want to add anymore.

I think there's going to be a purge of characters now that some (like Roxas/Xion) got a "happy ending". Also, Sora has been cleansed of clones and they're all out of his heart and their own people. The Xehanort clones are also gone, which means that 6 members of the real Organization XIII are gone for good (I just counted Vanitas in there because I seriously doubt he will ever return). Ansem The Wise's role might be passed onto Ienzo or they might be treated as a duo in the lab and nothing more - a much reduced role than we saw before. Vexen/Even will probably be reduced to the lab as well, if he even shows up again. Aeleus and Dilan will probably be used in the capacity that they were in KH3 moving forward (if they show up again). Riku Replica is officially dead now. The only members from Organization XIII that will have relevance moving forward will be Isa, Emyd, Dorul, Lauriam, and Elrena. Ven will be important too, but I'm not sure about Terra. Aqua will probably be included due to her popularity.

I think the following characters will be used going forward:

Sora

Donald & Goofy

Riku

Kairi

Luxu

The Master of Masters

Axel

Isa

King Mickey

Ventus

Aqua

Emyd

Dorul

Lauriam

Elrena

Ansem The Wise & Ienzo

The Foretellers

If Final Fantasy characters are left out of the main story and just have Disney world appearances, I think that's a decent amount of characters to work with. I think Yozora will be a character in a world and NOT a main character.

She's not an "it"!

I just don't see why they don't just start having original characters joining Sora in Disney worlds now. Why must the original characters need to stay regulated to mainly original worlds, because of that they can only get so much screentime.

Not much usually happens in Disney worlds anyway, and with complaints of them still feeling like filler etc at least using them for more development/screentime for the original cast seems like a pretty good idea going forward when you have so many characters now.

I agree with this. Now that we can have up to 4 party members, there is no reason Riku or Kairi can't join us in the Disney worlds. The only issue I can see coming up is that Nomura would rather Sora experience the world with Donald and Goofy on their own. After KH3, I feel like we had the climax of Sora, Donald, and Goofy (as a trio) travelling to worlds and it's time for something fresh, so throwing in an additional character can spice up the dynamic and help flesh out characters.

Despite the bloated cast I suspect Nomura will still add more OCs next saga. I mentioned it in another thread but we could start to see more original characters based on FF ones in place of actually cameos

I dunno I think Nomura has big plans for Yozora that could extend outside Shinjuku. Especially if he is representing the white chess piece Eraqus used in the epilogue.

Junior Detective

I agree with this. Now that we can have up to 4 party members, there is no reason Riku or Kairi can't join us in the Disney worlds. The only issue I can see coming up is that Nomura would rather Sora experience the world with Donald and Goofy on their own. After KH3, I feel like we had the climax of Sora, Donald, and Goofy (as a trio) travelling to worlds and it's time for something fresh, so throwing in an additional character can spice up the dynamic and help flesh out characters.

Did Nomura confirm that Yozora was the white chess piece Eraqus used? I thought that was Sora?

Member

This really seems like it should go without saying, but having a large cast in one's story isn't automatically a problem. In fact, it can even help to enhance and expand the story if done correctly. No, the problem mainly comes when the writers don't know how to properly handle or make use of that cast (like how they barely used any of the "polished" original characters in KH3 despite certain statements made prior to release). On the subject, I still find it incredibly ironic how they used the abundance of original characters as an excuse to exclude core aspects of the series like FF characters in KH3, yet not only do we not see most of them till the very end of the game anyway, many of them don't ever contribute more than one or two scenes before getting used as empty background dressing (some like Dilan and Aeleus don't even get speaking parts, & it isn't because there's no time in those scenes or anything reasonable like that, they just don't talk whenever the scenes actually focus on them). And the few that actually did have more of a presence didn't really accomplish much either. Anyway, the point is it's not that there isn't enough room or space in the series for the cast going forward (even with the newly returning characters), the writers just seem to get cold feet when it comes to fully embracing what's at their disposal, and instead opt to add newer ideas rather than fleshing out what they already have (hence all of the obvious sequel bait in Kh3, and lack of focus on actual character development). And while yeah, that's arguably been a recurring thing with the series for a while, it doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon.

Interesting theory. Personally at this point, I'm just surprised no one's considered the possibility that Yozora's presence in the Secret Ending was just conceptual and won't actually be part of the main series (there's always at least two or three things in these secret endings that don't make it in, and Yozora's the only outta place inclusion in what's a mostly uneventful sequence). Not dismissing it completely, but I certainly couldn't place as much stock into it as most of y'all do.

Active member

It was too many characters back during KH2 with the Organization. The problem is that while he has characters that could be retired, essentially, they are also linked to characters that are likely going to have significant roles in the next KH games.

There is no way to cut it down without just flat out writing out certain characters and considering how clunky of a way Nomura cut out the RG FF characters in KH3, I'm not really looking forward to seeing how he'd reduce the characters in the next titles...

Well at least he already warned us in interviews that this might mean a goodbye for certain characters. But I agree that he made a bit of a mistake to include so many characters with future stories..while he also wanted to cut the amount down. We simply would have way less characters if he never connected Axel and Isa with the mysterious girl..This way the whole Twilight gang would have stayed mostly out of the story without making it strange because their story would be over. And theoretically you can include Namine in that, who only kinda needs Soras "thank you" as a plot point.

Member

Well at least he already warned us in interviews that this might mean a goodbye for certain characters. But I agree that he made a bit of a mistake to include so many characters with future stories..while he also wanted to cut the amount down. We simply would have way less characters if he never connected Axel and Isa with the mysterious girl..This way the whole Twilight gang would have stayed mostly out of the story without making it strange because their story would be over. And theoretically you can include Namine in that, who only kinda needs Soras "thank you" as a plot point.

Member

Well at least he already warned us in interviews that this might mean a goodbye for certain characters. But I agree that he made a bit of a mistake to include so many characters with future stories..while he also wanted to cut the amount down. We simply would have way less characters if he never connected Axel and Isa with the mysterious girl..This way the whole Twilight gang would have stayed mostly out of the story without making it strange because their story would be over. And theoretically you can include Namine in that, who only kinda needs Soras "thank you" as a plot point.

Namine could be utilized to help chain back Ventus and Skuld's (?) memories, I can see her being useful. Although I whole heartedly agree when it comes to Isa and Lea. It was transiently exciting to find out why they joined the organization, but beyond that I have zero interest in seeing them develop as characters. I will be greatly concerned if Isa becomes a keyblade wielder.

I've mentioned this about a dozen times already, but I for one think most of the characters can be utilized without clogging things up. Aqua and Terra can appear in one game when things get heated with Ven. Roxas and Xion can appear once to join your party when you have to save Isa and Lea or something. There's no reason why most characters can't show up for one world in one game in the upcoming saga. That, in my opinion, can help keep party members and their interactions fresh without having to hoard them all in one world.

"Indeeeeeeeeeeeeed."

On the subject of the possibly Nomura adding more OCs. That's inevitable, but Nomura has admitted the difficulty he had in dealing with all these character. So he may not be too keen on going through that again and maybe take a step back to focus on already existing characters. (A girl can dream.)

While there's nothing concrete on it, I have an inkling Elrena, Lauriam, Demyx, and Luxord being from the Chi-era could have been to avoid making new characters. There's next to no info on them so it's easy to repurpose them in new roles.

New member

On the subject of the possibly Nomura adding more OCs. That's inevitable, but Nomura has admitted the difficulty he had in dealing with all these characters. So he may not be too keen on going through that again and maybe take a step back to focus on already existing characters. (A girl can dream.)

While there's nothing concrete on it, I have an inkling Elrena, Lauriam, Demyx, and Luxord being from the Chi-era could have been to avoid making new characters. There's next to no info on them so it's easy to repurpose them in new roles.

similarly, this is why I believe a variant of the old reincarnated foreteller theory (i.e Kairi = Ava, Aqua = Invi, Terra = Aced, Riku = Ira, and Sora rounds off the party with Gula) is for similar character compression reasons. Though how the four/five of them appeared in the epilogue is a mystery, since we don't see the context for it it could be in the middle of the side game where they finally regained their memories, but I'll go for two anyway.
1. Alternative worldlines, which seems to be the equivalent of alternate universes
2. This is a bit more headcanon-y, but considering every numbered introduces a new enemy type it seems fitting. While reincarnating the foretellers, save for luxury who I presumed did so later, looked upon their actions and thought "wow, I was a dick" and cut off what they considered their weaknesses, their sins one can say, along with their memories into what we see in the epilogue not unlike how lightning "created" Lumina in Lightning Returns. When Kairi got shivved by Xenhenort when Sora saved her, he also managed to somehow return ava the remaining sin back into Kairi.

Active member

I really hope that we dont have some reincarnation going on. We already have enough memes with everyone being either a Sora or a Nort (and now a Riku too), there is no need to make the foretellers known characters too. (Also they behave way too different imo to be them and look different too)

The only believeable theory for me right now is Ava being either an anchestor to Kairi or even her grandmother.

Active member

I really hope that we dont have some reincarnation going on. We already have enough memes with everyone being either a Sora or a Nort (and now a Riku too), there is no need to make the foretellers known characters too. (Also they behave way too different imo to be them and look different too)

The only believeable theory for me right now is Ava being either an anchestor to Kairi or even her grandmother.

It would also kinda mean that these characters were screwed no matter what and had no way out of what's planned for them. Except Sora, since he's supposed to be ordinary in terms of prophecy. And I'd imagine everyone else that currently exists due to Sora would also be excluded in that as well, unless some weird stuff is going on. Idunno. I think connections would be better, and not the Foretellers literally being already established characters, but we'll see.