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No excuses here today, let's get right in. In fact, I say let's throw every excuse right out the window.

Since we're talking QB's and pass protection, how does "opening up holes" factor in to this? I never said the line was great at opening holes. But to say the team is incapable of "addressing the O-Line properly" is a no-win debate with you. Should we have gone to the 08 draft and used every Ace Card to acquire Offensive Linemen? And if we had, would you now be 100% satisfied because of it?
No, no you wouldn't. You and a thousand other people would be moaning and groaning about the vast amounts of swiss cheese in the defense and special teams.
The key factor being Swiss Cheese; IT WAS EVERYWHERE. We had to spread the acquisition around, and I think "Dumb and Dumber" did a pretty fly job of making it happen.
If we're going to complain about the "lack of push/lack of domination" on Our Lines, let's complain about 31 million dollars that could have been used to address this.
But to the matter at hand, the average "safety time before getting sacked/having to scramble" in the pocket is 2.5 to three seconds. You're going to tell me that our line can't manage THAT?!
Or, is it the receivers? Orrrrrr......
Is it this franchise's Ultra Uber-Long History of being either to cheap to pull the trigger, or too stupid to evaluate talent at the position?

Survey SAYS!???:
"Door number two please"... "CORRECT"!
If Quinn Gray turns out to be a flop, it won't suprise me one bit.BUT...
If he turns out to be an Uber-Stud; you can bet your a** it was pure happenstance.

I've seen this scenario before. Two Chiefs Quarterbacks, one O-Line.
QB number 1 struggles for wins at the beginning of the season and eventually ends up on the bench with an injury.
QB number 2 steps in, lights a fire under everyone's a**, and steers his team to 1st-round, home field advantage in the Playoffs.

No excuses here today, let's get right in. In fact, I say let's throw every excuse right out the window.

Since we're talking QB's and pass protection, how does "opening up holes" factor in to this?

Because we are talking about o-line quality. Watch some time. You can see the o-linemen trying to open running lanes.

I never said the line was great at opening holes. But to say the team is incapable of "addressing the O-Line properly" is a no-win debate with you.

How do you figure? This is your first discussion with me on the matter, and you have already given up?

When you said "throw excuses out the window" di you mean so you could catch them and immediately use them?

Saying something is a 'no-win' debate sounds like the frontline of all excuses to me.

Of the five starting positions, we had one secured. The team added one through the draft, and none from free agency. (No, I don't count anything past the fourth round of the draft, and I don't count any of the waiver-wire garbage that mediocre teams have scraped off their boot as anything either.)

If that is how you address starting positions on an NFL football team, then you have no clue.

(For the record, that is how Herm addressed it, and he does have no clue.)

Should we have gone to the 08 draft and used every Ace Card to acquire Offensive Linemen? And if we had, would you now be 100% satisfied because of it?

Exaggeration is yet another excuse. Instead of actually using some common sense, you just act like nothing would ever be good enough for me, and throw your e-arms in the air in frustraion? Stop it! Act like a man.

No, no you wouldn't.

Here is another brilliant debate tactic. Assure me that you know me better than I know myself, and that I would never accept anything.

You and a thousand other people would be moaning and groaning about the vast amounts of swiss cheese in the defense and special teams.

I, and countless others, already are 'moaning and groaning' about those issues.

The key factor being Swiss Cheese; IT WAS EVERYWHERE. We had to spread the acquisition around, and I think "Dumb and Dumber" did a pretty fly job of making it happen.

Wait a second. I watched a pretty decent defense, for most of last season. And I watche dthe worst offense in the NFL. (Special teams too, but that is late-round stuff.)

If we're going to complain about the "lack of push/lack of domination" on Our Lines, let's complain about 31 million dollars that could have been used to address this.

Read around new guy. I do.But that is no excuse for ignore three starting positions on the offesne, not to mention several depth positions.

But to the matter at hand, the average "safety time before getting sacked/having to scramble" in the pocket is 2.5 to three seconds. You're going to tell me that our line can't manage THAT?!

BS! If that were the average then noone would pass, and we would be a whole lot better than we are. Don't make-up numbers. Do some research on the subject. I don't deal well with others' imagination. And the half-second difference between two and a half, to three is a s***load, when we are talking about finding an open reciever.

Or, is it the receivers? Orrrrrr......
Is it this franchise's Ultra Uber-Long History of being either to cheap to pull the trigger, or too stupid to evaluate talent at the position?

Survey SAYS!???:
"Door number two please"..."CORRECT"!
If Quinn Gray turns out to be a flop, it won't suprise me one bit.BUT...
If he turns out to be an Uber-Stud; you can bet your a** it was pure happenstance.

I've seen this scenario before. Two Chiefs Quarterbacks, one O-Line.

I'm gonna guess that that was a better o-line.

QB number 1 struggles for wins at the beginning of the season and eventually ends up on the bench with an injury.
QB number 2 steps in, lights a fire under everyone's a**, and steers his team to 1st-round, home field advantage in the Playoffs.

NEWS FLASH!

They Both Had The SAME...LINE.

Soldier UP, or get to steppin'.

So, Trent Green just sucked *** then? How did he do so well before that? So then, Damon Huard just sucked *** then? How did he do so well before?

Green got used to playing with Roaf protecting his blind side, and couldn't handle when a hole opened up over there.

Huard was used to getting his *** kicked from random spots of protection in Miami, and did well when he only had one area to worry about a rush coming. But, once Shields retired, that left the other side to worry about, and it also caused pressure from the RT spot too.

Now, with pass rushers coming from about every angle, that makes it a whole lot tougher.

By the time Croyle got on the field, all protection had been removed, and it has been a mad scramble for any QB that has been in there. Let me also add that all QBs have become 'glass' too.

But you didn't answer me. What do you say if Gray gets injured within a couple of games? Because he isn't made of glass right now. Will we have turned him into glass?

That's it, isn't it? Herm has a special wizard staff that turns QBs into glass?

Now, as for what would have satisfied me, as far as adressing the o-line last off-season, they could have easily signed one of about six or seven decent players that were free agents. Then they could have drafted an OT (If that wasn't the position that they addressed on the free agent market.)

All they had to do was to address two of the three starting positions, and tell us that they were going with Niswanger at C.

In fact, if they had taken a third round OT (we had three selections in the third) I would have fealt pretty good about it.

But we took an OG, and are forcing him at LOT. That bothers me. OG is a 'run-blocking first' position, and LOT is a 'protect the QBs blind side first' position. Putting your big run-blocker in as the primary pass-blocker seems a bit stupid to me. And, as a result.... Croyle - Out For The Season... Huard - Out For The Season.

But, there was no need to do it all last off-season anyway. We should have been working on those starting positions for the previous two off-seasons. What did we get from those two periods?

How do you not see that Herm has injured his QB in every season of his head coaching career is more than a coincidence? It isn't that all of his QBs are just magically turned to glass. It is that every one 'made of glass' when thay are taking repetitive un-protected hits.

And you can chant F*A*R*V*E all you want. He is the exception to the rule, and he never had an o-line as bad as what we have right now. We have one NFL starter, two projects, and two guys that wouldn't hold down back-up jobs with most teams.

It is as simple as I make it sound. Put an emphasis on your o-line, and your offense will succeed. Ignore it, and the offense will fail. Our offense is failing miserably.

The point is we had to get a QB or two to keep the postition filled, Who knows how long Ingle or Thigpen can hold out. We have to keep a supply , Two is definately not enough to finish the season on this team. Yeah of coarse we need to get our O-line fixed. Who is out there that we can spend some Cap money on to actually make a difference this year? I hope Gray gets in and does well enough not to get hurt.I also hope we can limp through the rest of the season and Draft, or pick up some legitimate Free Agents to shore up our needs in all areas of need.

I can only go by film and numbers at this point. But from what I've seen, his form, reading, and athleticism have put him above everyone else posing as QB and collecting a paycheck from One Arrowhead Drive.

In my eyes, he had those fools beat hands-down before the ink dried on his new contract.

I was just saying what I did because we see to have 3 sucky QB's to go with our sucky chiefs. I will try to be open minded until I see him play some games.

The point is we had to get a QB or two to keep the postition filled, Who knows how long Ingle or Thigpen can hold out. We have to keep a supply , Two is definately not enough to finish the season on this team. Yeah of coarse we need to get our O-line fixed. Who is out there that we can spend some Cap money on to actually make a difference this year? I hope Gray gets in and does well enough not to get hurt.I also hope we can limp through the rest of the season and Draft, or pick up some legitimate Free Agents to shore up our needs in all areas of need.

Don't get me wrong. I agree with you here. There is nothing that can be done right now.

And, like I said, I like Gray, as far as guys who no other team wanted go.

I just have a problem getting excited about any QB signing, with the conditions that we have set-up for them. Especially when we just found-out that our #1 & #2 QBs both just had their seasons ended.

And to hear everybody start calling Croyle names, because he played injured, and got injured further, playing behind Herms world-class o-line, tends to make me a bit sour.

Also, with everybody wanting to draft a QB with our very high first round pick in '09, this tells me that we are readt to accept that we can't have an o-line, and that we may as well get a rookie QB that can make it through a few games of this.

Not only do I hate that it could be a huge waste of a very high draft pick, due to the threat of injury, but I hate that that means we would be putting the o-line on the back burner, yet again.

SInce I believe that it takes one season of working together to realize the potential of an o-line group, and taking it seriously wouldn't happen until '10s draft, that puts us at 2011, before we can expect to have an NFL offense on the field.

Great points ! I Hope that Gray does well enough to keep us respectful at least . But I do hope we get a franchise QB somewhere. We have alot of work to do before we fix the QB problem though . Its funny how everyone in the world can see whats wrong with this team but our management is blind to it.

Great points ! I Hope that Gray does well enough to keep us respectful at least . But I do hope we get a franchise QB somewhere. We have alot of work to do before we fix the QB problem though . Its funny how everyone in the world can see whats wrong with this team but our management is blind to it.

The sole reason that I get so 'fired-up' about all of this, and the same is true of all the other folks who get bashed for being negative, is because I don't want The Chiefs to be this bad agian.

So, we yeall, and scream, at the top of our lungs all season, in hopes that we will be heard, and management will get things taken care of.

I love my Chiefs, same as all of the rest of you. And I want them to be a good team, not this.

So, I show anger toward my team. I express dissapointment with them. And I hope that they will make the neccassary improvements.

My opinion for improvements is "O-Line". So you will hear me yelling that, above all other issues. (Except maybe Herm. But that is primarily because he doesn't do O-Line.)

Sure, he aired it out, but if you look carefully, he underthrew the receiver, you want to hit the receiver over his head in stride. He had to turn around. He doesn't have as much zip as those with stronger arms.