What the Founding Fathers said about guns

Originally posted by Todzer
Just a question from an outsider, people say that they need the weapons to defend themselves from a tyrannical government, why hasn't it happened
yet? The American government seems to have a new way to crap all over their citizens everyday and people are doing nothing. Is the line of needing the
guns just an excuse to keep them? I am not attacking anyone or the right to have arms before anyone jumps down my throat.

edit on 10/1/13 by
Todzer because: spelling

Well it could because here's what happened in Canada.When the Indians only had a few guns.

The guns our founding fathers were speaking of were long barrel, rifled single-shot muskets. They were flintlocks. Such guns are no longer even
considered "fire arms" by the federal Government. You'll note they were saying it would be bad if every home had a British Guard installed in it
and the citizens disarmed. First of all, your Constitutional guarantee is intact. You can have all the arms you can bear. No one is taking away the
gun you have now. But restricting access to high round capacity magazines, banning automatic and semi-automatic (convertible to a full auto) is not
the same thing as taking away your guns. It is simply keeping military grade weaponry off of our streets. It is to protect children. It is to protect
women and the elderly or all those who have not been "trained since youth" on how to use a gun. Giving some balding fifty eight year old school
principle a gun and asking him to defend 200 kids by shooting another person is NOT I repeat NOT going to work. Did you know that at Gettysburg they
found that a good fifty percent of the weapons in dead men's hands had multiple balls and powder shot in them? This is because these trained soldiers
were AFRAID to shoot another man, even one who was shooting at them! All people, even when given a gun, are not natural born killers. Imagine if the
principle or teacher buckles under pressure, does not shoot the armed assailant and allows fifty kids to perish! Can you imagine the unbearable weight
of responsibility on the souls of those who could not kill? This is why we have soldiers, and national guard, and police, and trained security forces.
Some people can kill on command or if need be. Others are KILLERS, they are violent and heartless murderers...not because they own a gun. But because
they are sick in the head. Not even our armed forces wants people like that. Now you are terrified that the armed forces of the United States of
America, YOUR OWN COUNTRY, are going to faithfully and dogmatically follow some unnamed president or congressman, and knock on your door, take your
gun, and install himself in your home like the British tried to do? Come on. Don't be an idiot. This heightened paranoid delusion that someone is
going to take your guns is becoming a method for the madness of total loss of control. Certainly the mobsters, drug peddlers and gangsters are way
more prepared to kill you than ever before. And as we have just seen recently, even being a gun advocate being in possession of multiple automatic
weapons, like the Sandy Hill shooter's mother...does not protect you from being shot yourself by your own weapon. Paranoia and fear, once they take
over your common sense, will place you in a way more vulnerable position when the next shooting occurs. This argument you have for gun ownership is
idiotic and untenable. Do you have a tank with a flame thrower and sound weaponry? No? Well the Police and Feds do! And they use them all the time!
What do you think your AK 47 or Bushmaster will do when they DO come knocking on your door, wondering why you just bought five thousand rounds of
armor piercing ammo? That's what happened to David Koresh. It's not 1776 anymore! Wake the # up!

Wow!!! You said a mouth full. Most of its BS but I do agree with the part about a principle being able to kill someone if they have to. I dont
think most teachers in my area would be able to. Thats why they need to be trained or have people in the schools that are trained for that scenario.
I am sure there are plenty of retired vets that would love to help. As for the other crap you said again, its all BS. Sounds like you live in
another country and should keep to your own business.

Yeah this is the type of senario im leaning towards especially the part which says once the govt badly loses a couple of confrontations their
appearance of invincibility will be in tatters and once the people smell blood in the water its all over

Originally posted by whisperindave
Do you have a tank with a flame thrower and sound weaponry? No? Well the Police and Feds do! And they use them all the time! What do you think your AK
47 or Bushmaster will do when they DO come knocking on your door, wondering why you just bought five thousand rounds of armor piercing ammo? That's
what happened to David Koresh. It's not 1776 anymore!

Exactly! See what happens when the government is given more power than the people, they can do whatever they want because they have more firepower.
And yet here you stand saying we should give up even more means to resist so they can have an even easier time forcing us to do whatever they want.

We are already over regulated in every aspect of our lives. We were never supposed to have a standing army, and the people were always supposed to be
as equally equipped as any government force.

It isn't 1776. It's more like 1774 or 1775. The government is restricting freedom and have already began to imprison and kill its citizens. When
1776 does finally get here I look forward to seeing the people stand up and say we wont take it anymore, we are reclaiming our independence, and
people will stand together to fight oppression.

Originally posted by Sounds_of_Silence
You don't need an assault rifle to go hunting deer, you don't even need a 10 magazine clip to hunt one...but a privately listed company such as
Mondanto can have their own private army...

What a short sighted and empty headed comment.

My guns and high round clips are for one thing and one thing only.....killing humans. I don't want to be limited on loaded shots, as not every shot
may stop the threat, or even hit it. Never mind that there might be multiple threats.

Please, all you anti-gun nuts, or just ignorant people thinking they are smart, put signs up in your yards declaring the lack of guns in your
household. I would feel much safer.

Nothing has changed except that there is no risk of foreign invasion to be worried about and that gun technology has advanced beyond muskets.

I have no problem at all with people owning guns for protection. I do think that laws should be allowed to adjust based on technology advancements,
but not as a reaction to isolated incidents or widespread media coverage with political bias. That is another thing that has changed slightly since
the declaration.

The thing is the amendment is not and never was about the technology of personal firearms.......the amendment is about the right of the people to
protect themselves from government gone mad.

Originally posted by whisperindave
Did you know that at Gettysburg they found that a good fifty percent of the weapons in dead men's hands had multiple balls and powder shot in them?
This is because these trained soldiers were AFRAID to shoot another man, even one who was shooting at them!

This was because the men couldnt hear their guns go off for all the noise so they would reload over a missfire. These wepaons had a high missfire rate
which troops were trained to look out for but it was mostly a training that had to do with the sound of the weapons going off.

Even with modern weapons, in the noise of battle, men are unaware they are not firing sometimes, even though they are holding the trigger down.

You think you have it all figured out don't you? I am guessing you're not American and you probably know nothing about small communities in America.
I'm not an American either, I'm British and would not claim for one minute that I know anything about America as I've never visited/lived there.

However, despite all that. I get a strong feeling of good will when I see Americans talk about the second ammendment. It is my belief that America
needs to keep her guns to save the world from you know what...

With out guns and the use of guns you would have no hope for peace hope4peace.

Yes and there is a built in yet not stated balance of power....knowing the people are armed is a standoff of sorts. If all the peopel and the
government do is stare down the barrel at each other then a certain amount of peace is thereby had.

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