Use this thread as an open thread just for Zimmerman Case stuff. A place to just dump, collect, or discuss general information about the Trayvon Martin VS George Zimmerman Case.

“The sensationalized, fact-deficient coverage of this case has achieved the
desired results. The networks got their ratings. The politicians got their
talking points. And if it means innocent people get caught in the middle of the
racial enmity they’ve fomented, obviously it’s considered acceptable collateral
damage. Congratulations, geniuses. Job well done.” Jim Treacher, The DC Trawler

REMINDER – Please WATCH THE TONE and CONTENT of Commentary. Please be respectful, courteous and considerate of other readers and contributors. Please avoid hatespeak, angry rhetoric, vulgarity, personal attacks and condescension. If you wish to engage in vitriolic, racist, or bitter angry rhetoric, there are alternative sites on the internet more than welcoming to such considerations. But not here. Thank You.

I am surprise crump is not packing for the bahamas at this point. did that guy read west’s subpeona. 12 minute recording from a 26 minute phone call. come on man, the missing 13 minutes is probably crump yelling at dd for being a bad actress and dd crying for having a bad memory. even nixon had the smarts to run before the congress could prosecute him, but trump is still hanging around with sabrina and still hoping to impeach the syg law. the sad part is zimmerman is not going to use the syg law because he had no chance to escape.

As I understand it, JQ does not allow non-members access their “Trayvon Zone”. According to Rumpole’s previous posts he was a member at JQ (and the most prolific poster on the site, IIRC), but was banned along with everyone else who hadn’t drank the Scheme Team’s Kool-Aid. Rumpole has let it be known that he still has access to JQ via an unnamed source.

Yep. I should have just lurked there, and maybe I’d still be able to see what’s going on. But alas… I too was banned. ;) And it wasn’t like I was nasty to those people or anything. Overall I was perfectly civilized, even friendly at most times. Oh well. I haz a sad. :(

They still to this day have an entire FORUM dedicated to their old forum “Websleuths” and what bad people they were. Tyrants who did not allow people to post at other forums!! :D
WS tyrants were mild by comparison to JQ

:D
I could tell you how I get info at JQ…. but then I’d have to shoot you :)
To be fair… I was banned over a game before GZ case came up.
But I have provided a haven for bullied and banned JQ peeps. I do have a LOT of friends and contacts at JQ *wink*

They have hidden the TM forum, making it accessible to Members only. They have done this with other cases, clearly they are ashamed.
It is still there under “Crimes Against Children”… so mis-filed from the outset. That area used to be for the real and particular cases involving people in authority praying on children.. child abuse/paedophilia by parents, teachers etc BULLYING was a big subsection… ironic since the posters and site Madam engage in bullying of posters who don’t agree with them.
Rather than “clean up their act” they have chosen to hide. Very strange for a “True Crime Forum”. They claim all sorts of noble motives such as posting public information about cases, “supporting victims” etc. At times they even have the delusion that they are solving cases and have information that LE and/or the prosecution need to see. (They never support defence)
So it is bizarre that they chose to hide themselves away on this case (and some others).

As far as finding a Daily Daft Post… it’s not hard because EVERY post is daft. The odd rational person who posted there in the past has been bullied and/or banned, so it’s undiluted , over-proof, Trayvonite delusional crap now.

Unlike many others, I’ve managed to escape being banned. I can log in and read/post whenever I want. I read over there every now and then, but I never post. And I can only read maybe a page of Trayvon thread posts before I can’t stand it. The people posting there are truly a mean, pathetic bunch. Have to wonder if there was just a natural falling off of interest from others who were once regulars, or if people started getting nervous when GZ & co. filed suit against ABC …

They can’t even prove he was negligent or unreasonable prior to being attacked.. Much less criminal. I don’t think the state has even attempted to claim that T-con did not attack George. They will stipulate that..

George “Mr.Fog” Zimmerman only chance is for MOM to keep him off the stand. Poll 1000 Deense Attorneys I bet 1000 would keep George “Mr.Fog” Zimmerman off he Stand.

As for evidence, Not sure what you call it, But Mr.”TheFog” Zimmerman shows a pattern of untruthfulness. Perhaps you can enlighten me, why he told his friends he graduated from college. They threw a biig party for him. He deceived 25 of his friends. There’s a pattern, now is that evidence? Is the court ALLOWED to prove GZ tells lots of lies?

Yet there is plenty of evidence that you are a troll with no clue about the law or this case. All you know is you hate someone because someone told you they were bad. I don’t care if anyone believes a single word that George says, the state has no case at all and the amount of reasonable doubt in every theory brought up by the Trayvonites is overwhelming. There is simply nothing that anyone can prove that goes against what George has said happened.

Here’s what I’ve believed since almost the start. It’s a twist on the “beyond a reasonable doubt” standard: Even if it was reversed, and it was the defense (in this case, George) that had to prove they were NOT guilty, and they had to do that to a “beyond a reasonable doubt” level… even if that’s the way the system was set up, George would STILL win. Yep. It’s clear that George is INNOCENT, beyond a reasonable doubt.

As for evidence, Not sure what you call it, But Mr.”TheFog” Zimmerman shows a pattern of untruthfulness. Perhaps you can enlighten me, why he told his friends he graduated from college. They threw a biig party for him. He deceived 25 of his friends. There’s a pattern, now is that evidence? Is the court ALLOWED to prove GZ tells lots of lies?

Absolutely and utterly irrelevant. In order to convict, the State must provide evidence to refute Zimmerman’s events of that night. And in fact, Zimmerman need not even take the stand. The State has concocted a fairy tale about profiling, pursuing, and hunting down in cold blood. The burden of proof lies with the State to provide evidence to prove this fairy tale; not the other way around.

Further: the State is already on record, in court stating that they have no evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony of that night’s events.

O’MARA: Do you have any evidence that supports who may have started the fight?

GILBREATH: No.

O’MARA: Mr. Zimmerman gave a statement that very night, did he not?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O’MARA: And within that statement, he said that he saw somebody, he was concerned, he got out of his car, he called non-emergency, and began to go towards the person. Is that paraphrasing but pretty correct so far?

GILBREATH: Paraphrasing, yes.

O’MARA: Ok. And if I go wrong, stop me and let me know where I wrong.

GILBREATH: I will.

O’MARA: And then he said he went back around and went towards his car, did he not? In his statement.

GILBREATH: In his statement after he was told not to talk by the dispatcher.

O’MARA: Got you.

GILBREATH: He says that he continued on to find a street sign and then went back to his car.

O’MARA: So he said before he knew anyone else saw or did not see what had happened, he gave a statement saying he went back to his car, correct?

GILBREATH: That part of the interview I don’t recall because I don’t know that he indicated where Martin was.

O’MARA: Did he tell you who started the fight? Did he give you any indication what happened?

GILBREATH: No.

O’MARA: Not you. I apologize. Are you aware of any information of the statements that he had given regarding that?

GILBREATH: Yes.

O’MARA: Ok. And in those statements that you’re aware of and were part of your foundation for coming up with this probable cause affidavit, what did he tell the officers?

GILBREATH: That he was the victim in this, and that it was Martin that confronted him and assaulted him.

O’MARA: When did he say that? When was the first in relation to when the event happened. When did he say that?

GILBREATH: The initial interview that was conducted at Sanford Police Department.

O’MARA: How long after the event?

GILBREATH: Within an hour and a half.

O’MARA: Had if been disclosed before he made that statement any information about what other evidence the police had gathered regarding this investigation?

GILBREATH: You mean to him? O’MARA: Yes.

GILBREATH: Not to my knowledge.

O’MARA: Would it be safe to assume then in giving him, and him giving that statement to the police wherein he said one, “I turned around and went back to my car”; and two, that he did not start the fight and that he was assaulted by Mr. Martin. When he gave that statement, did he have any indication that there were or were not half a dozen witnesses who saw the whole thing?

GILBREATH: I have no knowledge of that. I don’t know what —

O’MARA: any insight you can give us as to —

(CROSSTALK)

GILBREATH: I have no indication what he picked up from other officers at the scene. I know from reading reports there were witnesses gathered around while he was still at the scene. And this was prior to their having statements taken from them. So I don’t know what he picked up from overheard conversations.

O’MARA: That statement that he had given you — sorry, law enforcement that day, that we just talked about, turning around and that he was assaulted, do you have any evidence in your investigation to date that specifically contradicts either of those two pieces of evidence that were in his statement given several hours after the event?

GILBREATH: Which two?

O’MARA: That he turned back to his car. We’ll start with that one.

GILBREATH: I have nothing to indicate he did not or did not to that.

O’MARA: My question was do you have any evidence to contradict or that conflicts with his contention given before he knew any of the evidence that would conflict with the fact that he stated I walked back to my car?

GILBREATH: No.

O’MARA: No evidence. Correct?

GILBREATH: Understanding — are you talking about at that point in time?

O’MARA: Since. Today. Do you have any evidence that conflicts with his suggestion that he had turned around and went back to his car?

GILBREATH: Other than his statement, no.

O’MARA: Any evidence that conflicts with that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He answered it. He said no.

O’MARA: Any evidence that conflicts any eyewitnesses, anything that conflicts with the contention that Mr. Martin assaulted first?

GILBREATH: That contention that was given to us by him, other than filling in the figures being one following or chasing the other one, as to who threw the first blow, no.

I remember that exchange quite well. MOM hinges everythng on GZ story being truthful.
All defense witnesses have a story. So what if we believed them all. Who would be in jail?

Up until the time the first witness heard or saw something, The only evidence we have are the 911 calls and DeeDee phone call time event and maybe possible video. GZ’s story is not evidence. My Opinion.

It’s the obligation of Law enforcement to verify it. And They came up short. WITH GEORGE’S HELP. They gave him plenty of chances. After all the “I don’t knows”.

The burden of proof lies with the State, not with the defendant. The State bears the burden of presenting evidence that proves their allegations against the defendant.

FULLSTOP.

Zimmerman doesn’t have to prove anything. Zimmerman could be lying through his teeth, but the law is very clear that, unless the State has evidence to refute Zimmerman’s testimony, his testimony must be taken as truthful. Why? Because he has the constitutionally protected presumption of innocence.

Now, if you want to present evidence that materially refutes Zimmerman’s testimony regarding what transpired that night, please present it. (And be sure to copy BDLR; at this point, I’m fairly certain he’s downright desparate for such evidence.)

You have totally missed the point. The state has nothing to contradict the statement George made from day one. In order to get a conviction they need to prove that George committed second degree murder beyond a reasonable doubt. Since they can’t even prove that the incident didn’t happen exactly the way George said it did, how on earth can they prove beyond reasonable doubt that it meets the murder 2 statutes?

That aside, even if George’s story is not in the picture, there is overwhelming evidence and witness testimony that says it was pure self defense.

yup, they are all paid trolls reading the julison script. ” GZ’s story is not evidence” is a claim I have seen all the hard core traybots make over and over. “gz said isnt evidence” and they they want their cake and eat it too “gzs own words will hang him” well which is it?

Wrong. Whatever George said is PRESUMED TO BE TRUE. That is, unless and until other evidence shows otherwise. In this courtroom exchange, Gilbreath admitted, under oath, that he had no evidence to show that George’s statements were false. Therefore, BY LAW, George’s statements are considered to be true.

I heard that… but the case got thrown out.
LE failed to collect a sample of the pong for analysis and DNA matching.
Apparently Bakerprune was in Church for the same sermon …. she has previous (is a well known “wind breaker”)….so there is a strong circumstantial case it was her.
Certainly “reasonable doubt” as far as pining the pong on George goes.

Are you serious? I had heard a little about this supposed “party fraud” before, but it sounded so stupid I didn’t even bother to see what it was really about. So that’s it? He expected to graduate on a certain date, but turns out there was some miscalculations, and so he was a little premature? And these idiots use THAT against George? Seriously? Wow…

Crap…I’m going to warn our grandson who’s leaving for basic training/Army next month….that the fact that he came up short a couple of credits just before high school graduation, and he had to do a 6 week summer course to get his diploma actually has terribly serious consequences FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE!

He must NEVER defend his own life. He must let someone kill him if they want to, because if he defends his life at the cost of theirs, the fact that he actually opened our graduation card and cashed the check, constitutes deliberate deception on his part, which means he does not deserve to live.

What about TM missing so many days and his 3rd suspension in as many months. Yet the other day media story about TrayFam giving out scholarship in TM name, and how THIS was to be the yr TM graduated and persuded his college dreams. Bahahaha

It happens more than you would think. I moved to Florida in the middle of my sophmore year and make out my schedule each year with the counselor. Eight weeks before graduation I was informed I was one credit short. I had to take a mail order course to graduate on time.

Now, if he was only truant 53 days and suspended 3 times in one year, well, that’s a different story. That makes him a “normal teenage boy” who clearly majored in cheerfulness. Tell him to skip right over his stint in the Army and head directly to astronaut camp.

Why do schools allow a person to graduate before they have completed their course work? if it was such a terrible thing to have a graduation party before completing your coursework, then schools wouldnt allow people to walk through the graduation ceremony without all graduation requiremnts having been completed.
Why do schools allow people to do this? Hmm, so they all graduate together even if they still have a few credits to complete (the biggest graduation ceremony in most schools is only once a year)

I am glad you brought that up. We need a human test dummy for our CTH research. We will first smash you in the nose and break it. Then we will bash your head on the cement several times, testing your memory after every two bashes, till you bleed in the correct way. After that we will give you a field sobriety test and a memory test. I hope you will volunteer.

“They threw a biig party for him. He deceived 25 of his friends. There’s a pattern, now is that evidence? Is the court ALLOWED to prove GZ tells lots of lies?”

Jacob: Are you serious? That is really grasping. So, you’ve never heard of people having/throwing graduation parties for people who are are a credit or two short of college graduation? I have, many times!! When I graduated with my undergrad and my Master’s degree there were several of my classmates who said they were “graduating” but were one class shy of meeting their degree requirements, but still celebrated their graduation due to it being the end of the semester and that is when they preferred to celebrate or it was convenient for their families to attend or because they were fulfilling their final course by taking a CLEP exam or something. Over the years I’ve celebrated graduations with people who were not quite done with all their credits, or something they thought they were done but then found out they weren’t due to misadvisement regarding their coursework needed to graduate, but they still had a party, and finished up their credits later!

I work at a college, and this happens quite a bit. Wow……having a graduation party whenever you want is not “pattern” of deceit…..it HAPPENS ALL THE TIME!

…maybe the prosecution doesn’t care that Trayvon confronted GZ – since by that point, Trayvon had good reason to be frightened out of his mind when he realizes that GZ has exited his truck and is now looking for him, so he decides to stand his ground.

I don’t think Teeto understands the statutory meaning of “stand your ground.” Perhaps, at some point prior to the one-year anniversary of the incident, these folks will actually read the statutes. To that end, let’s have a look, shall we?

776.012 – Use of force in defense of a person

A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

776.013 applies to home invasions; so we ignore it here. So let’s move on to the money quote:

a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if…He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

Conditions under which the use of deadly force is legally justified:

1. A person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death to himself or another
2. A person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent great bodily harm to himself or another
3. To prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

It is important here to note that the “stand your ground” clause (“and does not have a duty to retreat”) applies explicitly to the use of lethal force in self-defense. Contrast these two clauses:

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when…

…and…

However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if…

The so-called “stand your ground” clause was explicitly and intentionally added to the justification for use of *deadly* force in self-defense. Thus, to claim that Martin “stood his ground” is to claim that Martin was justified in the use of lethal force in self-defense.

Back to Teeto:

…Trayvon had good reason to be frightened out of his mind when he realizes that GZ has exited his truck and is now looking for him…

There isn’t an honest police department, prosecutor, judge, or jury that would say that Zimmerman exiting his truck and “looking for” Martin would result in Martin *reasonably* believing that Zimmerman’s actions constituted imminent death or great bodily harm to, or the imminent commission of a forcible felony against, Martin.

Zimmerman getting out of his truck and “looking for” Martin simply does not meet the legal standard necessary to justify the forcible felony that Martin committed against Zimmerman.

(1)(a) A person commits aggravated battery who, in committing battery:
1. Intentionally or knowingly causes great bodily harm, permanent disability, or permanent disfigurement; or
2. Uses a deadly weapon.
(b) A person commits aggravated battery if the person who was the victim of the battery was pregnant at the time of the offense and the offender knew or should have known that the victim was pregnant.

(1)(a) The offense of battery occurs when a person:
1. Actually and intentionally touches or strikes another person against the will of the other; or
2. Intentionally causes bodily harm to another person.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person who commits battery commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) A person who has one prior conviction for battery, aggravated battery, or felony battery and who commits any second or subsequent battery commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. For purposes of this subsection, “conviction” means a determination of guilt that is the result of a plea or a trial, regardless of whether adjudication is withheld or a plea of nolo contendere is entered.

So, Cliff’s notes version: if you strike someone, you have committed battery. If you strike someone with the intent to cause great bodily harm, you have committed felony aggravated battery.

A reasonable person would conclude that the beating Martin administered to Zimmerman that night constituted the latter: felony aggravated battery.

Back to Teeto:

…maybe the prosecution doesn’t care that Trayvon confronted GZ…

But the prosecution very much *should* care whether or not Martin was the initial aggressor. Why? Roll tape on the statutes:

776.041 Use of force by aggressor

The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:
(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or
(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:
(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or
(b) In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.

Under the assumption that Martin was the initial aggressor, Martin cannot claim to have “stood his ground” – i.e. used lethal force in lieu of retreating – unless one of the following conditions apply:

1. In response to Martin’s provocation, Zimmerman used such force against Martin that Martin reasonably believed he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm, AND:
2. Martin exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of deadly force; OR
3. Martin withdrew in good faith from physical contact, and indicated clearly that he desired to withdraw and terminate the use of force

In order to prove the first condition, the prosecution would have to prove that Zimmerman used sufficient force against Martin that Martin would have reasonably believed he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm. Unfortunately for the prosecution, Martin evinced absolutely no signs whatsoever that Zimmerman so much as *touched* Martin.

In order to prove the second condition, the prosecution would have to prove that Martin made a good-faith effort to withdraw from physical contact and to terminate the use of force. Unfortunately for the prosecution, at least one witness testified that, with Zimmerman on the ground and screaming for help, Martin continued to beat Zimmerman, even after the witness told him to stop. Not only did Martin not make any effort to withdraw from the conflict, but he defiantly *continued* the conflict, even in the presence of eye-witnesses.

The bottom line is this: had the police arrived 90 seconds earlier, Martin would be alive, and would have been arrested for felony aggravated battery against Zimmerman. And Martin would have absolutely no grounds to claim that his use of force, including lethal force, was justified as self-defense.

There was some crazy video, with a crazy woman talking to a crowd. I think she may have been Crazy Mary’s mom, but not sure. Anyway, she said the dispatcher ordered George “to not approach Trayvon, but he did anyway.” And when she says that, the crowd starts chanting, “Do not approach! Do not approach!” I was literally embarrassed for those people as I watched that.

C’mon, Chip. You never leave anything for me to add. Why you gotta be so thorough? ;) Ah, but wait, I see something. “Had the police arrived 90 seconds earlier, Martin would be alive, and would have been arrested for felony aggravated battery.” I don’t think that’s 100% certain. I mean the “would be alive” part. Because what if Trayvon had just ignored the cops, the same way he did “John”, when told to stop? The cops would certainly have then used “force”. They may have grabbed him (unlikely), or more likely used their batons, or maybe a taser. Had they done that, Trayvon would probably have been injured, but yeah… alive. On the other hand, if he was REALLY out of control, and turned his aggression toward the cops? Yeah… there’s a possibility he STILL could have died that night.

LOL, and at Angie’s “”They don’t have the guts to come here and discuss the case like adults. And they have nothing to offer in terms of proof that Trayvon did anything wrong.”

I debated the case there for months, even though the rules there was designed to prevent fair discussion from an opposing viewpoint. And even saddled with that rule, I made them look like idiots for months, without them being ever able to refute a single point I made, using the law and evidence.

About all I can think the state can try is to claim T-con was the one standing his ground. They will have to argue that I think. It is the only way to justify his attack on George that they are stuck with. As crazy as that sounds.

Seriously? Multiple witnesses accounts that TM was on top of GZ raining down blows “MMA style” while GZ was screaming and trying to get away, the color photo of GZ’s face beaten bloody and unrecognizable, the 40 seconds of GZ’s recorded pleas for help are proof that TM was committing a felony assault, which is absolute grounds for the justifiable use of deadly force under Florida law.

On the contrary, it is the State who has nothing to offer in terms of proof that GZ did anything wrong.

Some of the worker cretins like Angie are so funny. :D
The site Madam decreed the outcome of any discussion in advance… “Trayvon is the victim”…. and repeatedly forbade people from posting facts about TM. Posts were deleted if they did not follow that arbitrary edict.
Anybody posting a contrary opinion was bullied by the cretins and the Site Madam, who eventually banned them… but only after tweeting with Bigboi and the dog pack …. puerile potty mouthed derision of that poster.

Liberalism is the cult of victimology. The biggest victim is the one we should always support. Never look for anything other than who the victim is while applying pc principals. victim status goes as follows: women and chlidren’s first, blacks and hispanics 2nd, whites never and men never. gays and bis and trans go first and straights are never victims

George didn’t have capillary bleeding from his nasal tissue. He had bleeding from a tiny nick on the tip of his nose. He must have been very pumped up to bleed so profusely. Such odd wounds for such a savage beating. Pity that George pulled the trigger instead of saying.. I am Neighborhood Watch.
So embarrassing for the cops to arrive and find him rolling around in wet grass with a neighborhood teen.

I am also sure that if instead of yelling for help George would have said “I am a neighborhood watch volunteer”, Trayvon would have stopped beating him and said “oh sorry chap, no harm meant, can I buy you a cup of coffee?”.

It is amazing how you trolls find silly points to try to make and have nothing to back them up. It’s really a pity that Trayvon decided to assault George instead of going home.

if trayvon had been home punished as his dad lied, he would still be alive now.
trayvon had been told by his school to stay home (and he didnt listen). if trayvon had been home catching up on all the work he had missed with his many absences, rather than out jackin crackas, he would still be alive

The photo was of GZ was taken after the EMTs treated him. In addition to cleaning blood from his head and face, they would have treated bleeding from the nose to get it under control if not stopped. The blood on his upper lip certainly is consistent with capillary bleeding.

are you blind or are you simply repeating a line from a company script. His site of injury is in the middle of the nose because it has obvious signs of redness and swelling and he probably had pain and fever too. The blood that was flowing out is actually from his nasal passages which was probably accumulated while getting his beating from martin. Once he sat up, the gravity took over, broke the coagulation and the blood started flowing out again.
this stupid comment reminds me of the crazy lady who called the randy hahn show and claimed the photo was original black and white and it was photo shopped back to color. different concept, but still the same old retardation.

“Pity that George pulled the trigger instead of saying.. I am Neighborhood Watch.”

Ahhh, so that is the secret safe phrase. Trayvon ignored 40 seconds of Z’s cries for help and John’s admonition, but would have immediately stopped the savage beating if Z had uttered “I am Neighborhood Watch.”

Can you imagine if George had identified himself as the neighborhood watch dude first? lmao. I wish he had since at least then they’re definitely be a video of the whole thing on youtube — unless, of course, Crump/Julison got to it first.

And can you imagine the mocking GZ would’ve received from the Trayvonites had he uttered that phrase? It would be “proof” of whatever ridiculous thing they were accusing him of that minute/hour/day. And I’m so sure thugs in training straighten right up when they hear a person announce they are Neighborhood Watch.

If the nose is broke, murder 2 is a joke!
If the head is split, acquit!
get your t-shirts ready.
trayvonites dont handle evidence or rules or laws well.
they do best with catchy slogans with few words.
preferrably small words spoken slowly so they can understand

I heard that Mr. Martin punched him because Georgie wanted to kiss him.

These are the stupid memes that Travonistas say about what went down that night.

There is NO proof that Georgie announcing that he’s part of the NW would have mattered at all. If this gets mentioned at the hearing or trial it will be shot down (speculation is not allowed as evidence).

The handbook which was written by the DOJ and adopted by all NW groups says specifically NOT to identify yourself as NW. This has been pointed out over and over. All of the NW “experts” on the TM sites have never even look at a NW handbook or training material.

‘The handbook which was written by the DOJ and adopted by all NW groups . . .’

Sorry, I have to disagree with this. There is no handbook adopted by all NW groups.

There is a national organization of NW groups, but affiliation with it is not mandatory. Many NW groups, including that of RATL, are not affiliated, and get their training materials entirely from the local police department.

The materials used by the NW of RATL are linked in this TalkLeft post. The FDLE interview with Wendy Dorival is another rich, and primary, source of information on how the NW was organized and trained.

This may sound a little OT, but I will get to the part that relates to GZ.

Given recent events, yesterday I went on a quest to find a semi-auto carbine before they totally disappear. Pickings were very slim. The larger stores, such as Gander Mtn. and Fin Feather Fur had nothing other than .22 LR. I suspect some of the stores I visited had either completely sold out, or had sent their stock to shows, where they could be sold for gougeworthy prices. At one store, I found a used Sig 556 for $2k, and several colt AR-15’s for $2600 and up. Another store had 5.56 and .308 rifles from DPMS for $2500 and a used AK-47 for $1500.

My last stop of the day seemed like another dead end. Their long gun section had many empty slots, along with a few .22 LR pieces, but nothing larger. I was about to give up when a used DPMS .308 caught my eye. With a scope and 7 19 rd. mags, it was priced at $1500. I jumped on it, even though the gun in question has an MSRP of under $1200. While filling out my background check form, I noticed that I had to check off my ethnicity twice…once as “white”, and once as “not Hispanic”. The clerk at the store told me that the additional question regarding Hispanic ethnicity appeared on the forms right after the TM shooting.

Is this true? was the federal background check form changed in response to GZ’s misidentification in the media as “white”, or is it unrelated fallout from, say, fast and furious?

I found one online that did not ask the non-Hispanic” question. If I find a newer one with it then perhaps they did update it. I did run into a site that helps you through the FFL license process. While difficult they say the benefits are worth it since you save around 30% as a dealer.

That is not as easy a question to answer as it might seem. Many experts recommend a shotgun for home defense as they are devastating in close quarters and, depending on the load used, minimize the risks of unintended injuries due to a miss going through a wall. Revolvers are good because of the simplicity of design. There’s no risk of a jam with a revolver, but you are limited to 6 or 7 rounds. I myself have an FN Five-seven, which fires a very small round (5.7 mm in diameter, or just slightly larger than a .22) at a very high rate of speed (upwards of 1700 fps), The main advantage of this weapon is that the magazine capacity is 20 rounds. IMO, shot placement trumps projectile mass and velocity, and having 20 shots means a better chance of hitting what you are aiming at.

also, go to the range and rent something you’re interested in as well. I like Berettas also because they are easy to disassemble and assemble for cleaning.
the full size also has a rotating barrel which makes it super easy to shoot.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vVrSlukcTA

I am going to assume that the Miami Dade School Police had not kept any details since they were reported to have been involved in stat padding and failure to report an unknown amount of incidents. To show that their school(s) had been turned around and crime was down. Those photos have long been filed with the Bin Laden, Big Foot and Roswell UFO photos. I doubt we will see any of that.

Don’t I remember seeing where the jewelry, when Trayvon said it was given to him by a friend whom he would not identify, was sent to the PD for evidence recovered? It would seem that whoever the jewelry was taken from would have reported it missing and possibly identified it by this time. If that is what I remember reading somewhere, then the reference to the jewelry would be with the school’s police report with reference to disposition.

I have often used this fact to respond to trayvonites dismissing it…its not magic mystical jewelry with no owner…..tray refused to name the friend, and no one has claimed what according to trayvonites would be rightfully theirs and confiscated wrongfully since it tray had it under their authority.
and of course miami gardens wont connect it to a crime…in the latest syg presser of theirs, they admit trayvon was all over multiple communities beyond sanford and miami gardens…….the man himself named 3 other cities as places trayvon frequented.

“Trayvon was not disciplined because of the discovery, but was instead suspended for graffiti, according to the report. School police impounded the jewelry and sent photos of the items to detectives at Miami-Dade police for further investigation.”

I don’t know of anything being heard of the jewelry since, so Miami-Dade Schools Police may still have them.

the progressive agenda is beyond her. she is told to say these things. she is not in control of this anymore. you can see it in here eyes. she doesnt want to keep this charade going. she wants to come clean now while she can still get sympathy and maybe they will go light on her…but crump wont let her..

This might be old news, but it was new to ME. I just noticed in the case detail report that the defense filed two more notices of “Taking Depositions” after they filed to Motion for a Subpoena Duces Tecum of ABC.

how they spread misinfohttps://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
mother jones.
if you play with the yellow box highliting are you following and we dont need…youll see its for lifting that part of the convo…and when you do that, magically gz says :”ok” disappears from the whole thing instead of simply not being highlighted in yellow with it outside the highlite as it is before you play with the box

lets count the things wrong in the video:
1 tm isnt that young or short
2 tm has his hood up in the store
3 he bought watermelon arizona not arizona sweet tea
4 he answered his headset in the store
5 he waited outside the store and left to the right not straight out the door
6 he didnt use the gate he used the shortcut to bypass the gates and fences
7 gz didnt call nem as soon as he saw tm…he watched for a minute, he didnt just turn the corner and call right away, and tm was not walking along minding his own when gz saw him
8 they have tm walking and bobbing to the beat of music, dancing, yet hes supposed to be on the phone with deedee
9 gz never creeped up behind tm in the truck almost about to run him over
10 most rediculous portrayal of how tm would have checked out gz
11 he puts his hood up after checking out gz yet gz never says this
12 he didnt say ok and then put the phone down and act out any dismay that they dont need him to follow
13 they do manage to show tm assaulting gz from behind…then they jump to before it to explain why tm is justified
14 gz did not after sitting there then decide to disobey and run after tm
15 gz did not pop around the corner and cut off tm
16 gz did not have an outside hip holster and his hand was not poised to draw like a western
17 gz did not push tm, mount him, and start hitting, and tm has no marks to suggest this fantasy
18 he didnt then get off of tm, aim, and fire while tm has his hands up, exection style
19 “no one helped” is not tms line its georges
20 his phone didnt ring…and was not next to his body
21 gz didnt just sit there like an idiot after the shot
22 tm wasnt lying there motionless witnesses admit his legs were moving

I bet they never once even considered suspending the acounts of roseann barr or spike lee (these folks displayed the proper forms of hate-hatred of a percieved white man is not only ok, it is encouraged)

Is that how these fools see the incident??? one easy fact to dispute the whole thing now is the injuries to Trayvon’s knuckles vs. George’s face. I knew Trayvon was trouble from Day 1 though before it was big because I spoke with one of his teachers. He told me though he didn’t want to get involved with this whole thing. I also know that Trayvon was best friends with Kit Darrant. hopefully, all of this stuff comes to light.

by now, MOM knows why St. Trayvon was suspended. I’m just so anxious to hear the reason. I can’t wait to hear the excuses from the Trayvon defenders. it’s like they are attached to him as if he is a martyr. they can’t see the lies and deception. they still think the wrist tattoo of Sybrina’s name is acceptable for a 17 year old. in my book, teenagers that get tattoos are trouble or delinquients.

Kit Darrant’s mom spoke to a lot of people before she was murdered. she couldn’t believe it, but said he was trouble, was disrespectful towards her, and had a foul mouth. I think the best way is to have a reporter ask Kit him/herself.

also, I know one of his teachers from last year who claimed he (Trayvon) was trouble. I mean now there’s proof that he was suspended 3 times. people told me about the 3 suspensions when the schemers were claiming he was ony suspended one time for tardiness and being in an unauthorized area.

Well, I personally would agree with that. Because there’s “drug dealers”, and then there’s “drug dealers”. Some of them are evil… they think nothing of killing anyone who gets in their way, and they think nothing of getting a kid hooked on hard drugs. And those kinds of dealers?… yeah, those are scum, and whatever happens to them, I have no sympathy. On the other hand, there are some who do nothing more than buy (or grow) a pound of weed at a time, and then gradually sell half an ounce here, half an ounce there, usually to friends and acquaintances. I’ve known some of those types, and the ones who stick solely with weed are perfectly normal people. YES, it’s true… they’re committing a crime that could get them locked up for some time. But that does NOT make them horrible people, and most certainly does NOT mean they deserve to die.

Kit Darrant’s mom spoke to a lot of people before she was murdered. she couldn’t believe it, but said he was trouble, was disrespectful towards her, and had a foul mouth. I think the best way is to have a reporter ask Kit him/herself.

I can’t even identify Trayvon in that video, lol. But just to be clear that video was on his YouTube channel. Tracy and Sybrina clearly don’t have access to that YouTube account or else it would have been taken down like the Twitter and Facebook. The video itself got flagged and taken down, which was probably done not because it showed fighting but because it was on Trayvons page and we have an image to create you know, so we can’t have that on there.

I wonder if he knew the MMA fighter Mike Trujillo. He was subscribed to him and had this video on his page(perhaps he needs to be deposed);

I think that’s what Trayvon was doing when George first saw him. Not so much “casing” houses (though it could have looked that way), but rather standing there, near the “shortcut”, waiting for someone to meet him there.

To take a step further. The state claims that George wrongly profiled Martin as a criminal. If he was using drugs that right there makes him a criminal at large. If he was intoxicated by the drugs then he was in violation of the criminal public intoxication laws. So, if Martin was intoxicated and acting strange in a stealthy manner George would be correct.

What is going to be admissible if anything from the school records is going to be interesting. If the records show TM was disciplined for being in a restricted area what was he doing? I find this odd. It is a school and how many places in a school are restricted and how many kids wander into places they are not supposed to be. Normally they would shoo them out but TM gets suspended so that indicates to me he was doing something there or they suspected him of something or he was a repeat offender and could not plead ignorance. Did he hide out on campus, skulk around, pilfer, what?

Yeah, he was doing more than just being in an “unauthorized area”. At least I can’t imagine that getting you suspended, unless there was lots more to it. In junior high, I and half the kids in the school, often got in trouble for being someplace we weren’t supposed to be. The “teachers’ stairs”. ;) That’s right. The regular stairs were way down at the far ends of the hallways, and so if your class was near the center of the building, you’d have to walk a mile to get to the stairs. But the teachers, in addition to those stairs, also had their own special stairs, right in the middle of each hallway. Well, we figured, why should a bunch of LAZY teachers get to be the only ones to use those stairs. So…

(Pretty bad when that was the kind of dumb stuff kids used to get in trouble for, huh?)

Yeah well. I may well have started with disobeying stair edicts.. but if they had not disciplined you you may gone on to NOT stay off the grass when it was clearly signposted.. and then who knows.. anarchy and total disregard for regulations everywhere.

When I got my first car I parked in the principal’s parking place. It was a 1959 Caddie that my grandmother gave me and it was the only parking place big enough for a 16 year old to park it. The vice principal thought it was hilarious.

the unauthorized area was a lie. Tracy said this before Robles reported the marijauna pipe and residue. he was trying to fit the excuse into a narrative for a 5 day suspension.
there are no teacher stairs in Krop.

when I was in highschool, me and buds used to sneak off to smoke pot….one place was a break in the fence that left school property. another place was up in the attic space where all the hvac blowers were. another place was in the basement on the boiler room.
aside from smoking pot, i see no reason anyone would go to an “unauthorized” area.

One place was the “space where all the hvac blowers were”?! Hahaha! Trying to spread the joy to the whole school?

If they’re like most AHUs, the intakes were on the roof, not in the mezzanine space. But of course, they’re not airtight. I’m sure everyone knows of those rooms where you could smell lunch being cooked. So, I suppose the kitchen wouldn’t have been the only baking that made its way to others’ olfactory nerves…

The ‘unauthorized area’ was Tracy Martin’s lie, before they copped to possession. (Which, as Diwataman pointed out, remains not officially confirmed.)

The current story is suspension #1 for tardiness/truancy, #2 for graffiti, #3 for possession. Only #2 is official, because the Miami Herald got a Miami-Dade Schools Police report.

The jewelry was found in the course of the graffiti incident. There was no discipline for that, says the report, says the Miami Herald. The jewelry was ‘impounded’, and photos sent to the Miami-Dade police.

Officially, I believe these trolls are just office drones from india and they have a script that they are require to send to the public. Their script is usually either character attacks (zimmerman is a liar) or imaginary creations ( yeah, photos are all photoshopped). However, they tend to run with tails in between their legs when we confronted them with facts and laws. every one of them seem to run on a what if platform or a could or would platform. getting boring in here because every one seems to run their imagination like steven king, but no one seems to stick with the facts, until today, I still can not see a reasonable explaination of how did a 200 pound zimmerman managed to pursued a 160 lb martin, but mama sabrina still believes that is physically possible. I guess that woman never ran after teenagers before. they might be lighter, but they are faster and stronger.

Ok, this is a really dumb, somewhat anti-George video, from a definitely anti-George YouTube account. But despite that, I just found it HILARIOUS. I bet even George himself would. Watch this, and I bet you can’t keep from rolling on the floor.

George walking in circles is funny, but the investigator doing it too is what floored me. And some of the expressions on George’s face. And especially when he looks scared and his legs start shaking. I first saw that about 2:00 this morning, and started rolling. My wife, who was asleep in bed beside me, didn’t appreciate being woke up. So of course I had to make HER watch in, and then she couldn’t get back to sleep for awhile after HER laughing spell.

Sorta funny.. insofar as it was so wrong… starting with the opening titles… but scary too… people believe this version.. and always will. It was done back in April so of course some of it was down to the over active imagination of the creator….. problem is…. having “made it up” to be this way it has got fixed in some minds. They apparently have a “Write Once” memory system.

I think that one is a little later than the first one. In this one he leaves out the part right after he mentions he saw someone laying on the ground screaming. Originally, he added, “… and so I was gonna go see if I could help him…” but the dog got off the leash. The GZ haters who think Austin’s statement hurts George are insane. It HELPS him.

He is the guy who came out with a song for TM within the first few days of TM’s death. I don’t even think TM was burried yet. How very sad, everyone TM knew used his death for their own personal gain. As for the song, sorry, but if that is what these kids listen to then it’s no wonder they want to hurt or kill people. That was just painful to listen to let alone watch, I just had to take some ibuprofen to relieve my headache caused by that noise and visual disturbance.

add another radio dj to the list of lawsuits…”hes supposed to be in a jail sell” says outright he is a murderer….and of course we spin gods plan to mean god wanted gz to kill…..
and of course “audio experts already says it wasnt gz screaming, and he STILL wont admit it”

those two audio experts are kind of funky. their major problem is that they do not have trayvon martin’s voice to compare to. one guy just uses his years of experience to determine the voice does not belong to a little boy and allows him to conclude it was not zimmerman’s screams. However, trayvon is a post-puberty adult who should produce a lower pitch, deeper adult like voice. the other dude used some soft ware and found the screams had a 47% match with zimmerman and concluded it was not from zimmerman because 61 percent is an absolute certainty. However, he never had trayvon’s voice to compare to. mama sabrina keeps using these two experts to prove the screams do not belong to zimmerman, but she never had prove that they belong to trayvon also because she never turned in any original sample of trayvon’s audio file. come on mom, in today’s i-phone world, you do not have one singular recording of trayvon’s voice. come on.

Neither audio expert will see the inside of the courtroom. Neither relied on admissible evidence (such as voice samples of *both* parties, at an absolute minimum). One claimed (IIRC) that the screams sounded like they were coming from a young boy – a claim that impeaches his testimony. The other based his analysis on his own software, a financial conflict of interest that impeaches his testimony.

usually any type of voice based evidence is not admissable in a court room because there is lack of standard of measurement. for example, zimmerman’s voice stress test will never be enter into the court room because it is highly questionable, those two voice experts are even more questionable because one just used his subjective opinion and that other guy used some computer soft ware from his own company.

And on top of that, there’s the claim that a 47% match is “low”. I don’t know how it works, but seems to me they’ve got that kinda backwards under the circumstances. Look at the voice samples they used. The NEN tape and the “scream” tape. Considering the vast differences between those two, I was shocked that there was ANY kind of match. Seems to me that a 47% match, under those conditions, is actually HIGH.

From a 3-25-12 interview w/ NY Times.
And now he is gone from his mother forever, only able to stare out at her as a shining face on a cellphone. She has no home videos of Trayvon. She doesn’t even have voicemail messages from him saved. The only way that she could now hear Trayvon’s voice would be to call his phone and listen to his answering message, but she dare not do it. “If I hear his voice, I think I’m going to scream.”

The phone is still in evidence. IIRC the discovery so far leaves unclear exactly who has it. I think there is a letter or e-mail saying FDLE was sending it back to SPD, but no record (yet) to show the SPD got it.

The phone message is something we discussed at TalkLeft. I think those messages aren’t recorded on the phone itself, but in some central location. Part of the point is to take messages when the phone is turned off or otherwise out of service. Anyone who dials that number will hear the message, even if the phone had been destroyed.

Is sabrina fulton setting up for her own impeachment? She has said more than once that zimmerman was the one responsible for the the death of martin and he was the one pursued, attacked and killed martin. could the defense use her public statements to impeach her testimony?remember the affidavit does state her as the pivotal voice expert who testify that the screams belong to martin.

She also lied about Serino not returning her call. Serino interviewed Cutcher and Mora over the phone on 3/1, and the next day they both came in for individual interviews. Recordings of all three interviews are in the discovery.

You have to understand that this press briefing was very influential in crafting, at the onset, the anti-GZ narrative that continues to plague this case. The reporters on the scene report on that briefing. They are not investigators, They have a deadline. And yes, it was exploited by Crump and Co, but they had cover in these two “witnesses”, and they made use of it.

Do they all know or even care how incredibly stupid they all look in those ridiculous hoodies. What is even more ridiculous is the hoodie has zero to do with this case. GZ only said hoodie because the operator asked for a discription. Also, why is that man standing behind the man in the close up covering his face with what looks to be a baby diaper or blanket. Must be hiding from the police, maybe it’s one of TM’s Mytle Grove Talibanz buddies. ( Murda Grove Boys), he seems to have befriended on his Myspace page.

Watch it with the sound off. These are tribal street rituals. There’s nothing normal anywhere within a country mile of this kind of behavior. There’s nothing more tiresome than someone who has to always be offended, but neither is there anything less safe than becoming someone who has trained himself to never be offended.

Like I said. Watch it with the sound off. And be offended. This stuff is coming at us from every side, demanding the right to set the new norms while they destroy everything that is strong and traditional and normal about our nation, and intimidating anyone who doesn’t immediately comply. THAT is offensive.