"The Word", who is he according to John?

1. If "God" is a 'Trinity', why is there only TWO mentioned here? Where is the "Holy Ghost"? on vacation? If John was trying to make a 'Trinity' statement, did he not have EVERY REASON to mention all THREE here? Do you even have an answer FROM THE BIBLE clear cut? What is common... show more 1. If "God" is a 'Trinity', why is there only TWO mentioned here? Where is the "Holy Ghost"? on vacation? If John was trying to make a 'Trinity' statement, did he not have EVERY REASON to mention all THREE here? Do you even have an answer FROM THE BIBLE clear cut? What is common sense? Is your opinion and ideas more important over God's thoughts?

2. John 1:1 talks about "in the beginning", well Is not the "Holy Ghost" also God Almighty in the beginning? then where is he and why does HE not have a beginning HERE? Where in the Bible does it say the "Holy Ghost" specifically has no beginning?

3. Concerning the "Word", if this says he has a beginning, then why does Psalms 90:2 say God had no beginning?

4. 'In the beginning the Word was, and the Word with Trinity, and the Word was Trinity. This wone was in the beginning with Trinity' So, if "God" is a trinity, and the "Word" was WITH "God", that means there are 4 persons here, according to logic and proper english translation. What was John REALLY trying to say?

5. Why in the SAME chapter in verse 18 it says "No man may see God at any time" and live, yet we've seen Jesus tons of times? we even "beheld his glory". Are you trying to say it's because he was in the flesh? Well, where IN THE BIBLE (not opinion) does it SAY that "Jesus is God Almight in the flesh, but if you SEE Jesus God Almighty in the spirit you die"? Why does it only apply this to the Father? Why does it only apply The Father to being "God alone" throughout the WHOOOOOLE Bible, but never does it apply the statement to Jesus?

6. Pathetically, why doesn't John 1:1 even prove that there is a TWO-in-ONE God? Let alone three.

7. Where in the Bible does it say that specifically a person can be WITh another person, and yet BE that same person? "The Word was WITH God", yet "The Word was God"? Why do scholars knowingly toss their theology ideas on translation that is obviously incorrect? Why do even the best ones actually admit this biased translation?

8. Why does the King James, and several other popular common Bibles 'ADD' an "a" in Mark 11:32 or even perhaps John 6:70, or maybe Acts 28:4? "a prophet", "a slanderer", "a murderer", but mysteriously for no apparent reason DECIDE to TAKE IT OUT of John 1:1? For example, "a god" or "a divine being".

9. What is more reasonable in simple english, "He's a murderer" or "Hes murderer!"? What language do you speak?

10. If the "Word" is actually just the second person of the 'Trinity' and the Father is the first person of that 'Trinity', then how could it be said that the "Word", who you say is "God the Son" is also "God the Father"?

11. If "God" in John 1:1 makes up for the "Holy Ghost" and the Father, doesn't that obviously contradict "God" being "FIRST PERSON"? How confusing can twisted ideas get? If the "Holy Ghost" is embedded in the Father, how is "God" here First Person at all?

12. Why is God NOT a God of confusion as opposed to the trinity? How blind can people be? Why are you so confused? Why don't you let JOHN explain the scripture? Are your efforts futile? Epic failure.

/END

Update: Christendom believes that the fundamental doctrine of her teachings is the Trinity. By Trinity she means a triune or three-in-one God. That means a God in three Persons, namely, “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.” Since this is said to be, not three Gods, but merely “one God in three Persons,”... show more Christendom believes that the fundamental doctrine of her teachings is the Trinity. By Trinity she means a triune or three-in-one God. That means a God in three Persons, namely, “God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.” Since this is said to be, not three Gods, but merely “one God in three Persons,” then the term God must mean the Trinity; and the Trinity and God must be interchangeable terms. On this basis let us quote John 1:1, 2 and use the equivalent term for God, and let us see how it reads:
8 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with the Trinity, and the Word was the Trinity. The same was in the beginning with the Trinity.” But how could such a thing be? If the Word was himself a Person and he was with the Trinity, then there would be four Persons. But the Word is said by the trinitarians to be the Second Person of the Trinity, namely, “God the Son.” But even then, how could John say that the Word, as God the Son, was the Trinity made up of three Persons?

Update 2: ~This is JEAPORDY 2. "and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Right there, in Genesis 1~
Yes, where in Genesis 1:2 does it pronounce that "spirit" as God Almighty? Where does it EVER pronounce the "spirit" as God Almighty? And still again, what basis did John have for NOT adding the "Holy Ghost" in... show more ~This is JEAPORDY 2. "and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters." Right there, in Genesis 1~

Yes, where in Genesis 1:2 does it pronounce that "spirit" as God Almighty? Where does it EVER pronounce the "spirit" as God Almighty? And still again, what basis did John have for NOT adding the "Holy Ghost" in John 1:1? Are you saying it's because the "spirit" was already mentioned in Genesis 1:2? Where in the Bible does it say the spirit can't be mentioned at John 1:1 because it was already mentioned in Gen 1:2?

Update 3: ~Jim from Reviews.com
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, partly due to the fact that I presented my questions a little awkward. Your line of reasoning is out of harmony with the rest of the Bible. Yahoo doesn't seem to have enough space for me to sit here and go through all of this. Email me with your... show more ~Jim from Reviews.com
You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, partly due to the fact that I presented my questions a little awkward. Your line of reasoning is out of harmony with the rest of the Bible. Yahoo doesn't seem to have enough space for me to sit here and go through all of this. Email me with your reasoning again at mwg25@live.com.

Update 4: ~Jim from Reviews.com~
"Jesus"
Yes, it WAS Jesus, that was just a title to the topic I posted.
"1a)Because only 2 are under discussion. This is like asking, "If the U.S. government consists of the Executive, Judicial and Congressional branches, why is it so often that only the President is mentioned?" It's because... show more ~Jim from Reviews.com~
"Jesus"
Yes, it WAS Jesus, that was just a title to the topic I posted.

"1a)Because only 2 are under discussion. This is like asking, "If the U.S. government consists of the Executive, Judicial and Congressional branches, why is it so often that only the President is mentioned?" It's because at times the President is the only official relevant to the discussion. The question is wholly illogical."
This scripture is used to support the Trinity. Your reasoning that "only 2 are under discussion" is false. This is not what Trinitarians believe. Are you a Trinitarian? I have been told by other Trinitarians differently from you.

"He absolutely was not attempting to do so. This passage is used by many Christians to support directly the deity of Christ, which only *indirectly* supports the doctrine of trinity."
Yes he was, according to the Trinitarians I've spoken too. Was I misinformed?

"Clearly it is not a friend of yours."
What are you trying to say? You cannot pro

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Best Answer: When you pick a fight on the 1st verse of the 1st chapter of John, rather than simply reading the entire book to understand what John is trying to convey, you miss the point entirely. The simple truth is that Jesus Christ HAD to be God. It was an essential ingredient in the divine plan of salvation. Without Jesus being God, there would be NO salvation for anyone.

Consider Acts 4:27-28: "For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."

So these men carried out that which God's hand and God's purpose had predestined. If you comprehend the Almighty nature of God and His sovereignty, then what does it mean for God to "predestine" something? It means that there is NO POWER IN THE UNIVERSE that can prevent it from happening, because the Almighty God has predestined, or settled the destiny in advance.

What is it that the Almighty had predestined to occur? The death of Jesus as a sacrifice on our behalf, for our sins. But, in order to be valid, that sacrifice had to be PERFECT. It had to be of a man totally without sin.

See 2Cor 5:21, keeping in mind that this was predestined: "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." This was the plan which was predestined from the beginning (Rev 13:8).

Now, what would have happened if Jesus had sinned just once? Well, what happened to Adam who was created as a man without sin? How many times did he have to sin in order to incur the death penalty? One time! If Jesus had sinned just once in his entire life, he would have died to pay the price for his own sin. (Rom 6:23)

Now consider that the Bible reveals that God holds the sinner responsible for every sinful deed, every sinful word AND every sinful THOUGHT. If you don't believe that God is going to hold sinners responsible even for their sinful thoughts, then ask yourself why did Jesus when explaining the Ten Commandments say to the Jews, "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." (Mat 5:27-28) The point is that God does, so do you realize what this means about Jesus? It means from birth all the way through that very last moment on the cross, Jesus not only did not DO anything wrong or SAY anything wrong, but he never so much as THOUGHT anything wrong! Because of this, he was the successful sacrifice, which was predestined by God. God had predestined his Son to be perfect at the moment he offered up his life as a sacrifice. The question is, however did God manage to do that?

I would suggest that the answer is found in Col 2:9. I'll quote verse 8 as well, so we know for sure who we're talking about here. "See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." There's your answer.

If you look at Col 1:19-20, where all the fullness is also mentioned, it says: "For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness [of Deity, remember?] to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven." Here is linked all the fullness of the Deity in Christ to accomplish the work of reconciliation. Christ could not sin! Yes, he could have sinned left to his own human nature even though he was created without sin. It is not at all in agreement with Scripture to say that just a perfect man could do the job. Because Adam was a perfect man according to the Jehovah's Witnesses, and wasn't he created without sin? How long did it take him to sin? Holy angels have sinned, have they not?

But God GUARANTEED his sacrifice, right from the very beginning. God had given a cast-iron guarantee that his sacrifice would be without sin because he had predetermined it by his Almighty power from the foundation of the world. ONLY the presence of all the fullness of God within the humanity of Christ could provide the guarantee of that sinless sacrifice.

If you can comprehend this, then the silly semantic battles are pointless. They become totally unnecessary when we understand that the divine plan was that the fullness of God must dwell in the humanity of Christ to guarantee the sinless sacrifice which would effectively reconcile man to God.

Because only 2 are under discussion. This is like asking, "If the U.S. government consists of the Executive, Judicial and Congressional branches, why is it so often that only the President is mentioned?" It's because at times the President is the only official relevant to the discussion. The question is wholly illogical.

1b) If John was trying to make a 'Trinity' statement

He absolutely was not attempting to do so. This passage is used by many Christians to support directly the deity of Christ, which only *indirectly* supports the doctrine of trinity.

1c) What is common sense?

Clearly it is not a friend of yours.

1d) Is your opinion and ideas more important over God's thoughts?

Of course not - nor are your opinions and ideas more important than Biblical Scripture.

2a) well Is not the "Holy Ghost" also God Almighty in the beginning?

Yes.

2b) then where is he

The same place(s) that he has always been.

2c) why does HE not have a beginning HERE?

Question answered. Why are you asking it twice?

2d) Where in the Bible does it say the "Holy Ghost" specifically has no beginning?

Where in the Bible does it teach that the Holy Spirit **does** have a beginning? Or are your opinions and ideas more important than God's thoughts?

3) Concerning the "Word", if this says he has a beginning, then why does Psalms 90:2 say God had no beginning?

Fallacy of many questions. In fact, "this" does NOT teach that the Word had a beginning. Quite the opposite, it teaches that the Word *already existed* at the beginning. "In the beginning was the Word" - not "in the beginning the Word came into being."

I'm not going farther. It is clear to me at this point why you find the Witness "unitarian" doctrine so appealing - and to be honest, it is not an issue so important that I need bother to continue.

However, I do have recommendation for you:
- take an advanced reading skills course or advanced English comprehension course
- read a **basic** book (high school level or lower) on logic

Then address this issue again. If you do both of those things, most of the disagreements that I have with your arguments will disappear - because most of your arguments will disappear.

- Jim, http://www.bible-reviews.com/

Anonymous · 8 years ago

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· just now

Well you asked a lot of questions so I will probably just do a few.

1. John was NOT making a statement about the Trinity. He was making a statement about JESUS CHRIST. The entire book of John's theme is that Jesus Christ Is God. So the opening of chapter 1 explains that Jesus was with and IS God.

2. The "beginning" is a reference to the first verse of the Bible. Meaning "In the beginning of creation." John is going back to Genesis to let us understand that Jesus is the Creator of ALL things. Again, this is not a statement about the Trinity. John's point is that Jesus IS God.

3. See my answer above.

4. Again, see my answers above. John is trying to highlight that Jesus is God. And that's it. There is nothing said about the Trinity in this passage at all. And remember John also wrote this:
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
So there is your Trinity statement.

5. When Jesus made that statement, He said as Jesus the man which He was lowered to. Jesus when He came to Earth voluntarily gave up His full deity to become human to save us. In order for humanity to be justified before God a HUMAN had to live a perfect life and be a perfect sacrifice. This is why Jesus does everything on behalf of His father. Jesus was not living as God during His life. He was living as a sinless man, while still retaining His title of God. Think of it like the "Undercover Boss" show where the CEO of a company goes undercover and works in a plant that he owns. He punches in, takes orders and does every task that someone who is a factory worker would. Is he still the CEO? YES. But he voluntarily lowered himself for a time. This is what Jesus did. So when He says "No one has seen God. He is talking about God the Father."

6. John was not trying to prove anything of that sort.

7. I have already shown the verse where John says all 3 are one. Here is another verse that confirms who Jesus is.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Timothy 3:16. Hence Jesus is God in the flesh.

There is not specific meaning of "Trinity" within the bible. There are more passages relating to separate beings of the three. The Trinity is a concept created to explain praying to Jesus without violating the 1st Commandment.

When Scripture speaks of our Savior, it is referencing Jesus Christ. And when we think of our Savior, we think of Jesus who died on the cross for our sins.

2 Cor. 5: 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

God never changes. Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Jesus never changes. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God is the only Saviour. "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11

To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12

God our Saviour. Titus 2:10 ...we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10

God my Saviour. Luke 1:47

Jesus is the only Saviour. ...the Father sent the Son be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14
...our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 3:18
...God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. II Peter 1:1
...the Christ, the Saviour of the world. John 4:42
...the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. Titus 1:4
a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Neither is there salvation in any other (than Jesus): for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
--Acts 4:12
...salvation... is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
--2 Timothy 2:10
...captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings.
-- Heb 2:10
[Jesus]...author of eternal salvation...
-- Heb 5:9

God is the Word.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1

Jesus is the Word.
...the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14

God is the first and the last.
I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4

Jesus is the first and the last.
Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17

Jesus redeemed us.
The great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14

God is one
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD. Deuteronomy 6:4

Jesus and God are one.
I and my Father are one. John 10:30
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...All things were made by him...He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not...And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us John 1:1, 3, 10, 14
Jesus saith...he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? John 14:9
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

God is the Holy One
Psalms 71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth,O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.

Jesus is the Holy One.
Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Praise the Lord, for He is One!!!

Bro. James

Apostolic pastor

Anonymous · 8 years ago

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· just now

I would like to say first off, job well done in regards to your studying and asking questions. Yet, I would like to correct you on one thing, not all christians believe in the trinity. As Jehovah's Witnesses(Christian), we do not believe in the trinity.

Throughout Jesus's life in the Bible, he separates himself as the son. I give you an example. Many run straight to John 1:1 to say that Jesus is God, if translated directly from hebrew, it says he is "a god". Also notice the capitalization between "god" and "God". separating the two. Yet if you continue on down in the scriptures in verse 18, it says: "No man has seen God at any time." Has Jesus been seen? Yes. But there other scriptures in the Bible where Jesus does separate himself as the son from his father Jehovah(Psalm 83:18, name announced.)

Good job, continue to ask questions. If you want to ask any from me personally, feel free.

Source(s): www.watchtower.org, New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures