I think basic tags/big game report card style permitting just like NCWRC uses for hunting would be simplest on both sides and give the quickest and most up to date numbers. This year the effective total limit per recreational fisherman would have been 6 fish (1 per day for 6 days if fishing every day). So assume that such a system had been in place this year, either when buying your fishing license or in a seperate transaction like getting a HMS permit, an angler interested in fishing for and retaining ARS would acquire a report card with 6 spaces for the 6 fish they are allowed (or a smaller number if it was not assumed that fisherman would have landed fish all 6 days but rather maybe only 3 of the 6 or something like that). Then during a season of reasonable length and set like other species to protect the fish during spawning, said anglers go out and can catch up to their total number of fish on their card in whatever combination of fish per day they prefer and must punch a hole in their carb by each fish space as they are boated. Upon making landfall but before removing the boat from the water or fish from the boat in the case of a boat stored at a dock or marina, the angler calls in or goes online to report their catch and record confirmation numbers for each fish. In the case the total number of fish allowed for harvest is expected to exceed the number of anglers buying tags/report cards, then a lottery would be set up that is open only to those with a valid fishing license for their state for the time of the season and with an application cut off and date for awarding of tags set within a reasonable amount of time prior to the the season.

With this type of system, NGO's would be virtually blocked from being able to just buy up ALL of the permits due to the valid recreational fishing license requirement for obtaining card or entering lottery, the issue timing and weather would be taken care of through a season of reasonable length, anglers trying to skirt reporting would be combatted by punching of the holes as the fish are boated (if checked while on the water and you have more fish than holes punched, you have a violation, even if still less fish than limit) and by the report confirmation numbers once on land (combat trying to not call in and then reuse punched but not numbered card next trip by being in violation if checked after getting off water and have no numbers and combat trying to resue an already filled permit by being in violation if checked while in water and have numbers but have not clearly made landfall to end your trip and thus call in report). This system would also give essentially realtime data through the day of catch reporting, which would provide the info in plenty of time for helping with setting future seasons and harvest numbers, which is the main issue I have with seapro's idea, that by the reporting being done when buying a fishing license for the following year the data will be up to a year behind as well and not be of much use in setting that following seasons parameters.

Of course there will still be people who try to get around the reporting and harvest more than their share but the penalties just have to be substantial enough to significantly outweigh the reward for the risk (high $ fines, siezure of boat and possibly even tow vehicle and trailer if a towed boat, etc).

kicker30, great ideas! Would tags in your plan be transferable? Should there be some sort of agreement to use a descending device on released snapper that float when getting harvest tags?

I'm on the fence on them being transferable, but tend to lean toward no but make the season long enough that there should be plenty of time to fill them. The only thing that makes me thing maybe they should be is that offshore fishing is much different than hunting, in that despite your best plans to go the weather can totally shut all that down. That said, I would rather see someone who is able to go when the weather is good be able to use tags of those who's trips have been blown out and don't foresee getting another to go in order to keep fish, especially keep fish that may not make it after being released. I'd be all for a similar type program for cobia and any other fish in similar management controversies.

I'd also support making use of decending devices a requirement when bottoms fishing just like circle hooks.

Last edited by kicker30 on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

Joined: Jan 11, 2005Posts: 3991Location: 212 Miles too far to the West

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:21 pm Post subject:

Am I losing my mind (no comments) or didn't SAFMC propose not too long ago a grouper snapper recreational permit and then it was shot down?

The permitting system is where proposed tags would come from... along with rec observers (also in the works still), rec reporting, and even rec vms monitoring.

This is a very, very slippery slope

If it were as simple as issuing tags I think I could get behind it. But once the government gets involved it will always become more and more involved. Rarely if ever does a government agency pare back_________________Squid Row II - 23 Shamrock Inboard, 351 W Indmar, 1:1 Velvet Drive

Am I losing my mind (no comments) or didn't SAFMC propose not too long ago a grouper snapper recreational permit and then it was shot down?

The permitting system is where proposed tags would come from... along with rec observers (also in the works still), rec reporting, and even rec vms monitoring.

This is a very, very slippery slope

If it were as simple as issuing tags I think I could get behind it. But once the government gets involved it will always become more and more involved. Rarely if ever does a government agency pare back

I think this can easily be accomplished with a simple system like what is used by NCWRC for big game harvest reporting, hell even the HMS permit reporting system isnt bad to use and the federal government already runs that one. I do not believe in any way shape or form that we need to go as far, or allow it to go as far, as rec observers, full blown rec reporting (only certain species that the tags cover) or monitoring.

It needs to be presented to the council in a way that makes it appear as easy as possible for them, so that they can be lazy and not have to invest a lot of time or thought into it (which is where they screw things up, when they start to think and try to come up with the ideas), and still get good results.

It is good to see some thought being put into this important issue. Here are a few more things to consider.

Transferring tags sounds reasonable but it WILL open the door to catch shares. One way to ensure most tags get filled is to have two seasons each year with unused tags from the first season being put back into the pool for next season.

Would you want a new federal program to administer tags or allow states to issue them? Each state could manage a portion of the Total Allowable Catch in a way that best fits their fishery.

Please come up with a final draft of this concept that most of those involved can agree on. Each individual should formally submit the plan as a public comment before the December SAFMC meeting and send a copy to your state and federal elected officials.

Looks like the FEDS will get more info next year from the charter fleet in the SAFMC. I have already received paper work that they are expecting to put in place by summer 2018. They have already had training meetings and online webinars to show how to fill out properly. Anyone with a Federal charter boat permit(fishing outside 3 miles) will be required to submit weekly reports for all trips past 3 miles and record all fish retained and discarded during the trips. As a charter boat all landings are considered recreational so this is the first step to the FEDS getting concrete numbers. Currently there re about 2,100 boats in the South Atlantic that will be effected._________________Capt Ryan Jordan
Fugitive Fishing Charters
\"The Fugitive\"
33\' Sportfisher, Oak Island, NC

Joined: Jan 11, 2005Posts: 3991Location: 212 Miles too far to the West

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:55 pm Post subject:

There is also talk that the second weekend from November's mini season might be rescheduled in December since the weather up and down the east coast was unfishable during the second weekend of the season in November_________________Squid Row II - 23 Shamrock Inboard, 351 W Indmar, 1:1 Velvet Drive

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