golden dawn

they got the most votes in a couple of regions in and around athens: korinthias (12.0%), argolidos (9.9%) and attikis (9.7%). they also got a lot of votes further south on the peloponnese peninsula in lakonias (10.2%) and up north in kilkis (8.2%) which is not too far to the north of thessalonika. here’s a map – the darker the shading, the more golden dawn votes:

here’s another map. which is prolly kinda out of date since it’s based on the 2001 greek census, but it was the only one i could find showing the percentages of non-eu immigrants in the various regions (municipalities) of greece (click on maps for LARGER views):

and here’s one for eu immigrants living in greece, also in 2001:

looks like the peloponnesians are tired of all the non-eu immigrants, and that other greeks up north are tired of eu immigrants. not sure who those might be. romanians? bulgarians? dunno.

I am totally against Golden Dawn.
No, wait, I am a firm supporter.
Or, maybe I’ll decide once I have a sense of their positions.

Just kidding. I don’t usually take too much of a stand in foreign elections outside Western Europe, but I am surprised at how little is being said about Golden Dawn’s positions. Maybe they’re not very reminiscent of Hitlerism and thus wouldn’t support the media’s claims? Just a guess.

From wikipedia:
“Principal illegal immigrants include Albanians, Pakistanis, Kurds, Afghans, Iraqis and Somalis.” There are immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania but the biggest problems are with the illegal imimigrants. Greece is a gateway to EU and has a large population of temporary illegal imigrants from Asia and Africa. Another aspect is that a lot of the recent immigrants are Muslims and/or non-white. This matters a lot in a very religious and homogenous country (at least in the public imagination). The modern Greek state, after the population exchanges from the start of the 20th cent. , had very few visible non Greeks (they also deny that they have minoraties)

the large brunt of non-greek EU residents are “rich europe” retirees. French, Germans etc who worked hard and now want a bit of sun before they die. They generally don’t “blend in” to the greek culture-scape, but no one really begrudges them being there. also, they are cash-cows to local economies and all parties know it. I don’t think there’s a “revolt” against aging dutch.

also, re: non-greek immigrants, many are “through travellers” onto richer lands (i mean, would YOU rather get Danish welfare state benefits or greek benefits? they may be somali, but they’re not dumb). this means they have a “renter, not owner” mentality. Pakis and Somalis in Denmark, say of that what you will, have the sense that DEN is their “new home” and treat is much better than they do places which are “just stops on the road”. An example is if you piss on the seat at a gas station, you are very unlikely to clean it up, whereas in your own house you are much more likely

@olave – “I am surprised at how little is being said about Golden Dawn’s positions.”

yes, the only things i’ve seen about them have to do with immigration:

– they want all illegal — or is it ALL? — immigrants out of greece;
– they want those politicians whom they consider traitors to go to jail for being traitors to greece;
– they want to mine — yes, landmines! — the greek-turkish border (where 90% of the immigrants cross into greece);
– they think democracy’s over-rated and that the country should come first.

i think the first two points sound pretty good. the third one sounds a bit like a bunch of lunatics talking (just build a wall already!). and the fourth point … eh, i dunno. depends on what mood i’m in. (~_^) most of them do look like thugs, though. don’t know if i’d trust them to be a bunch of “benevolent dictators.” then again, the current system doesn’t seem to be working so great for greece.

@ddraig – “There are immigrants from Bulgaria and Romania but the biggest problems are with the illegal imimigrants.”

oh, absolutely. i just wondered why people in the north voted so fairly heavily for the golden dawn and all i could see, on these admittedly old maps, was the presence of e.u.-immigrants in the north. that’s why i wondered if they were romanians or bulgarians up north there.

having said that, though, neither of those countries were in the e.u. in 2001, and the lower two maps were based on 2001 greek census data, so romanians or bulgarians don’t even fit. maybe’s it’s just that in subsequent years, a lot of non-e.u. immigrants have been hanging out in northern greece. dunno.

I read a little about their stand on immigration, which is probably the only reason they are being linked to the Naughtcy Party (who, AFAICS, had approximately zero to say on the subject). The other aspects of the National Question, official language and affirmative action, probably don’t apply because most people outside English departments are aware what Greece’s national language is, and (I hope) they don’t have AA in Greece.

Anti-immigration, and criticizing democracy and elected politicians, get you into hot water. Did you see the “scandal” Romney was “involved in”? Someone told him that she wanted to see Obama or some administration official tried for treason. Bad old Romney, having people tell him they want a squishy leftist tried for treason, just because they constantly aid and comfort our enemies.

In the May 2012 Greek elections, Golden Dawn ran under the slogan “So we can rid this land of filth,” echoing the characterization of Jews by Hitler, who famously said in Mein Kampf, “Was there any form of filth or profligacy, particularly in cultural life, without at least one Jew involved in it?”

Ha ha ha! Both used that word “filth”, so GD was definitely “echoing”* Hitler! And I was echoing Hitler too when noted that a garbage bag had broken on the road on my commute to work, I suppose.

* Note that without the diaeresis, “echoing” is pronounced as a two-syllable word rhyming “boing”.