D+

D

D-

F

I haven't read this entire 219 page thread but was there some kind of explanation how Khan's men ended up in the torpedoes other than he snuck them in there? That's the one part that didn't make a lot of sense to me. So Khan is working on these torpedos by himself? In a room full of cryo tubes?

I rated it a "B", a solid Trek outing and I'd like to see more films of this type. The original ST 2009 had the "newness" factor that put it in "A" territory for me.

Is it completely up to the composer where to add music? Or could this be the directors and or producers choice?

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Regardless of whose choice it is, I just think the scene works better with that swelling score that accentuates Kirk's sense of panic in TWOK.

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Sometimes a good performance doesn't need music to carry it.

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This one did, cause it was just lame. You know they're not going to kill him yet. They telegraph it throughout the movie they can cheat death. You didn't know that the first time you saw TWOK. But I guess it moves so fast, maybe the average viewer doesn't notice.

Regardless of whose choice it is, I just think the scene works better with that swelling score that accentuates Kirk's sense of panic in TWOK.

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Sometimes a good performance doesn't need music to carry it.

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This one did, cause it was just lame. You know they're not going to kill him yet. They telegraph it throughout the movie they can cheat death. You didn't know that the first time you saw TWOK. But I guess it moves so fast, maybe the average viewer doesn't notice.

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Well, that doesn't diminish Kirk's sacrifice, because he certainly didn't know death could be cheated.

The only thing that added any sense of finality to Spock's death in TWOK there the rumors Nimoy didn't want to make any more Trek movies. To that en, Kudos to Meyer for wanting to leave it more open-ended.

Further, if they did telegraph anything throughout TWOK, it was that they could create life out of nothingness. Genesis planet, Spock's death, Genesis planet, hmmm. Just took another movie for it to happen in that case.

Well, Meyer said he did not add the torpedo on Genesis. That was Bennett.

As for life from death, they also said it destroys the original life to be replaced by new different life. But you make a point I never associated with Spock death in that movie. I never took it as a way out. And I was too young to know Nimmoy was rumored to want out.

I was surprised with this movie. I was underwhelmed by Star Trek 11 and was apprehensive about this one. Nevertheless I thought Into Darkness was much better than Star Trek 11.
I felt in some respects that the plot was similar to Skyfall: Used by his government then discarded the villain seeks revenge against those that did him wrong by using his enemies methods and technology. Granted it wasn't a carbon copy but it felt close.
Like most, I had read the rumors that the villain was Khan and this was a nice (though not complete) surprise. The definite homages to Wrath of Khan throughout were a pleasant touch, although beings that Khan and his followers are still technically alive it would have been nice to see them taken to Ceti Alpha V. McCoy's cliches were funny, as well as Scotty's comment that seemed to echo most fans thoughts about the Enterprise being submerged in water. Sometimes I felt the CGI was overdone, especially in the chase through San Francisco at the end. It was good to see engineering looked more like an engine room than a brewery.
Overall I grade the movie as a B+ because it felt more like Star Trek than Star Trek 11. It fails to get an A from me because of the video game like action sequences that got annoying.

Further, if they did telegraph anything throughout TWOK, it was that they could create life out of nothingness. Genesis planet, Spock's death, Genesis planet, hmmm. Just took another movie for it to happen in that case.

Regardless of whose choice it is, I just think the scene works better with that swelling score that accentuates Kirk's sense of panic in TWOK.

Click to expand...

Sometimes a good performance doesn't need music to carry it.

Click to expand...

This one did, cause it was just lame. You know they're not going to kill him yet. They telegraph it throughout the movie they can cheat death. You didn't know that the first time you saw TWOK. But I guess it moves so fast, maybe the average viewer doesn't notice.

Click to expand...

You need not look further than to the discerning hard-core fans of "real" Trek on this forum to find people who couldn't put 1 and 1 together about the blood and Kirk's death.

Well, Meyer said he did not add the torpedo on Genesis. That was Bennett.

As for life from death, they also said it destroys the original life to be replaced by new different life. But you make a point I never associated with Spock death in that movie. I never took it as a way out. And I was too young to know Nimmoy was rumored to want out.

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You're right, it was Bennett. My mistake. Meyer was the one who wanted it more definite.

The very earliest treatments of the TWOK didn't even include Spock, because Bennett was so sure Nimoy wasn't coming back. Offering him a great death scene to kill the character off intrigued Nimoy and got him to come back.

There are two main reasons for making the death scene less certain. The first was negative audience feedback to the more definitively done version. The second was it's said Nimoy had a better time than he thought he'd have and came to realize this would proably not be the last Trek movie. (I'm not sure how promises to direct Trek movies worked into the equation.)

Well before the release of the movie, the "secret" of Spock's death was thoroughly spoiled all over the place, even in the pre-Internet era. The media began hedging on his death being irrevocable.

(If I'm wrong about any of this, someone will be along shortly to politely correct me. )

^
Well since then, Nimoy insists he never wanted out. He talks about the trouble he had getting a call back about making ST:TSFS cause the CEO had heard he wanted out and wanted the character to die. That made the CEO afraid to let him direct the 3rd movie because he had heard Nimoy hated Star Trek and wanted in his the WOK contract to get out.

And I didn't even know there was another film coming until it was out.