The left is REALLY reaching to find offense sometimes. Pointing out that Obama is from Chicago was deemed racist by the left. So are the words; angry, constitution, experienced, golf, kitchen-cabinet, Obamacare, privileged, on and on. It's ridiculous. I've been called a racist so often, for so many stupid reasons, it's not even an insult anymore.

Have to at work. They fired someone for misuse of a slang. If I am with people who are not offended by certain words it's fine but we all need to be on the same page, same paragraph. Otherwise offense is you're best defense. It's gonna get ugly.

I am respectful. If people want to be referred to a certain way and consider certain things offensive, then yeah, I try to be respectful and not offend people. But I won't go out of my way to do it and I won't be irrational about it.

Well lets take a recent situation regarding Trump pointing out the criminal element crossing the border. The PC police were all over his ****. Trump has taken heat from rival presidential candidates, companies he has business deals with and members of the media who say his comments were offensive.

The PC police in action, shutting down discussion of an important problem that the left is not willing to deal with.

Now, I'm no fan of Trump, but it was the PC police being **** in this case.

How exactly is people criticizing him for his comments shutting down discussion? It's the exact opposite of what they were doing, really. He didn't just point out the criminal element of crossing the border and it's dishonest to frame it that way. He called them rapists and criminals. This discussion isn't about immigration anyway, so let's not get on that.

Yeah, he absolutely has taken heat. Would you prefer people not be allowed to criticize him? Is that more productive somehow?

I just don't see how criticizing someone for an opinion you disagree with is stopping discussion. Like I said, it promotes discussion. Here people are, discussing immigration and talking about what is or is not offensive. When people point of flaws in someone's argument, or even say that person is being offensive, it invites people to look at an issue and talk about it and generally start debating about things, which is great! What is shutting down discussion is calling people 'PC police' instead of genuinely looking at what they're trying to say.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem. Even if no criminals came with them - which isn't the case.

Talking about immigration is not offensive. NOT talking about immigration is national suicide.

Tell me about one of your situations. Where PC police are perfect and the whoever was called out an **. Please don't pick something stupid like Westboro Church, Charles Manson or some other obvious **.

I disagree on it being a /huge/ problem. There are lots of issues with the immigration system, however. I never said talking about it was offensive and I agree it should be debated. I just don't see how the PC police stopped anything.

'Where PC police are perfect.' You're setting up a huge loaded question here. Nobody is perfect. Why can't I pick out obvious ****? That's a pretty arbitrary law. Also I hate saying 'PC police', because it frames people as some sort of evil force rubbing their hands together and cackling about taking away speech. Being "politically correct" isn't about calling people out. At all. Honestly, political correctness is just a huge buzzword and is used to the point of being absolutely meaningless, which is what I was trying to say with the original comment. Not exactly justify it. It's not that I necessarily support being PC, it's just that I personally dislike the term because it's thrown at anyone who wants to trying being polite. I don't know if I'm making sense, but.

I've been called too politically correct for using someone's preferred pronouns or avoiding using a slur. That's the sort of thing that I was talking about in my original comment. People using the term politically correct for anyone that doesn't act like an ****.

I'm not about to dredge up an incident where the 'PC police were right' just because it's completely nonsensical to do that. It doesn't make any sense, because it frames political correctness in terms of 'trying to call out ****' which isn't what the concept of political correctness is at all. I guess I could find situations where someone said something offensive and people were like "hey wow that's offensive" but it's unrelated to my point.

You were the one who said it somehow stifles speech to criticize people, so I'd really enjoy seeing where that happens.

OK, so you've backed off your original comment "In a lot of situations, I see people who are trying to be accepting and tolerant called 'PC police' which is kind of ridiculous." because now according to you, "it's completely nonsensical to do that."

OK, let's talk about Trayvon Martin - literally a victim of political correctness.

Trayvon Martin became suspect because of his age and body language that comes from having a chip on his shoulder for a fight. Of course, Trayvon believed it was about his color because this is what he had been taught to expect.

He attacked Zimmerman with self-righteous anger, getting himself killed. Like our school mascot, Trayvon became one of the countless victims of political correctness.

And no one wanted to talk about black family values - just white privilege, police brutality - anything but the truth.

Why the **** must we bring racism into this. I did not back off my original comment. In fact, I repeated it. I never said 'PC police are meant to call people all' that's what you interpreted. I corrected your misinterpretation. The situation I provided by the pronouns is exactly what I meant with my original comment. People getting called politically correct for being polite, so often that the term is meaningless.

Actually, let's back up quite a lot. I have no clue what you're definition of politically correct is. I don't understand how what you brought up with Trayvon Martin is related to the concept of PC. And Trayvon Martin discussions, really? People didn't bring up black family values in relation to Trayvon because it's completely unrelated. You are making an awful lot of assumptions about what Trayvon was thinking at the same, which none of use know.

You brought up white privilege is a way that suggests you don't believe it's a thing. I really think we're getting off topic here but, wow you really don't believe white privilege is a thing in America? You really, really don't?

I've already used two of these links today lmao. Didn't realize I'd have to bring them up so much.

In fact, there is an entire documented phenomenon called shopping while black, which refers to racial profiling. I'm being 100% serious here.

I could go on. The reason people talk about white privilege and not black family values is because white privilege is the source of a lot of issues. "Black family values" are a ridiculous way of blaming racism on black people, while not examining the reason why things actually happen. It's hilarious that you think looking at "black family values" is the truth.

I've gotten rambly and snarky and really far off topic. But Christ. Really.

You responded to absolutely nothing I said. I've repeated what my point is a hundred times and I even provided some links when you decided to drag racism into this. All you did was say I was PC. Are you sure I'm the real reason discussion doesn't happen are you really sure

Yes, the PC rant backed up by actual **** sources, instead of baseless claims like you made. Acknowledging racism isn't PC holy shit christ it's reality. I didn't just dismiss them I countered. Every time I make an argument you move on to the next topic instead of acknowledging what I said. I'm definitely not the one stopping discussion.

You interpreted the events that happened. You said Trump was being consumed by the PC police and being shut down. His right to speech was never taken, it just involved people criticizing him. If you think criticism is PC Monsters idek what to tell you buddy. Like I'm in awe of how you think I'm the one who shuts discussion down because every time we talk all you do is point fingers and say 'your politically correct haha got you.'

Your barely supported your Trayvon Martin claim. Still no clue how it's related to PC stuff. You interpreted based on your view of events, with nothing to back it up. Just some opinions slapped over a story. Just because you don't know how to respond to my responses doesn't mean I'm the filthy PC police.

You also threw in some things about black family values (totally baseless) as well some nice wording that implied you didn't think white privilege is a thing. I then provided some links to show you white privilege (as well as police brutality) is very much relevant. That was promptly ignored.

Joke about suicide yikes. You spent more time implying I'd kill myself than actually talking about something relevant lmao.

Anon - it was PC that dragged racisim in Trayvon Martin and Donald Trump - that was kind of my point. You are only echoing the side you say you say is lily white ( a reference to a flower color - not race)

It makes perfect sense Anon. You and PC dragged our conversation all over the place. It's no wonder you got lost. We can revisit this tomorrow if you like, but I've got more important things to do right now. (Pick up dog **** in the yard)

Yeah that's a ridiculous situation. But honestly 99% of the time I've heard about that, it's people complaining about it as a hypothetical situation, instead of it actually happening. But yes I agree if someone complains about someone saying Merry Christmas it's a bit ridiculous.

What I mean and what I've said countless times that has gone completely ignored isn't that I support 'political correctness.' It's that I think it's a term that's thrown around so often it has absolutely zero meaning. I've been called too politically correct for using the right pronouns for someone, or for not saying a slur and choosing to use less **** language. I've seen such happen to others as well. It's to the point that I feel like I see it used far too often as a substitute for 'you tried to be respectful? PC scum' and that is what kills conversation more than anything.

It might be a bit unnecessary, I guess. But I can understand why a business that doesn't want to have any sort of religious affiliation would want to use that as a precaution I suppose. There's nothing inherently wrong with trying to be inclusive and again, it's a business. They're trying to sell things so it's no surprise that many of them want to be non-controversial. Although Christmas is a commercial holiday anyway and I can't think of any stories ever where somebody actually gave a shit that a person said Merry Christmas instead of an alternative, but whatever.

Like I personally think getting worked up because businesses want to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas is the definition of thin skinned. It's really, really not a big deal. If someone actually yells at you for saying one and not the other then yes they are probably overreacting but that's one of those things that doesn't happen really happen often.

Sure. I just think it's a generally pretty irrelevant issue. The fact that people blow up over a couple of companies saying Happy Holidays says a lot about how "thin skinned" they are. It's just really not a big deal and I can't believe it's been blown so far out of proportion.

But really, how many times do I have to say I don't support "PC." Are you sure you have the proper qualifications to read? I think it's a useless buzzword. You've been proving my point in this conversation. Instead of properly responding to anything I'm saying, you say "haha you're PC." Every single thing we've tried to talk about, that's your eventual response.This is what I don't like about that term. Blaming people for being 'too PC' shuts down conversation completely, which is hilarious considering that you say "political correctness" is itself what shuts down conversation. You're the one shutting down conversation, not me. You're right, I mean, just not in the way you intend.

"What I mean and what I've said countless times that has gone completely ignored isn't that I support 'political correctness.' It's that I think it's a term that's thrown around so often it has absolutely zero meaning. I've been called too politically correct for using the right pronouns for someone, or for not saying a slur and choosing to use less **** language. I've seen such happen to others as well. It's to the point that I feel like I see it used far too often as a substitute for 'you tried to be respectful? PC scum' and that is what kills conversation more than anything."

Copy and pasted word for word from an earlier comment (I'm a bit lazy whoops). Also more proof that I haven't changed my stance at all. I'm sorry that I'm trying to provide more nuance than "PC is evil" or "PC is inherently good." Things are more complex than that and I wish you'd get that.

Oh Christ I never said it was irrelevant. I said the Happy Holidays/Merry Christmas thing is. Yelling that somebody is PC shuts down conversation instead of promoting it.

I accidentally stumbled into your conversation with Budwick when I innocently found this question on the Amirite website and answered it. I found your repartee quite entertaining.

I can see your point about the term PC as being somewhat meaningless. But I have observed that people who disagree with certain opinions have a tendency to advocate for the censorship of those opinions and lines of argument. And almost always, those censorship demands are made by the folks whose politics are what is usually identified as "liberal" (which in itself is a hoot because those folks have made a mockery of the original meaning of the term which was derived from the same root as "liberty" which should encourage free speech and less censorship). And that even applies to certain people objecting to being called "liberals" and want instead to be called "progressives".

So, even if you believe that PC no longer has meaning, I have observed that PC has tended to become more of a method of censorship by those who are more politically liberal.

I personally, as a scientist, prefer to state facts as they are actually observed and I resent being criticized for calling a spade a spade.

The reason I'm a bit wary to take what you say at face value when you say that people advocate for censorship is that often I find people who are criticized automatically start claiming that they have free speech and cannot be censored. Which is completely true of course, but criticism =/= taking somebody's right to free speech away. A lot of people act as if free speech is freedom from consequence or freedom from people judging you on the content of your speech, which is why I'm hesitant to agree with your point about liberals. I'm more interested in seeing some examples of precisely what you're talking about so I can understand the exact point you're trying to make.

I dislike the fact that people hide behind the idea of censorship when something points out the flaws in their ideas.I keep bringing this up but in my experience, I've noticed a theme that people who are bigoted, when called out on their bigotry will tell you that you are being too PC or are trying to censor them. That is ridiculous. It's why I shy away from using political correctness as an insult. I feel like it's been severely misused.

I suppose it's possible both of our experiences are valid because like I said earlier, there is nuance to every situation.

I'm curious as to a what type of things you might be referring to when you say the 'calling a spade a spade.' I'm trying to make zero assumptions about what you mean with that and would rather let you talk first. Sorry for being a little all over the place.

It's interesting that you made the point about people who are criticized for their speech that complain about censorship are overlooking that free speech has consequences and those who speak must be willing to accept certain consequences following their speech. I have been saying this for years when those people complain about the backlash which results from their speech. A good example of that was when the Dixie Chicks got a huge backlash from their fans when they criticized George Bush which resulted in their loss of record sales and concert appearances, and they complained that their free speech was being taken away. No, your free speech was still valid, but the financial backlash was generated by your speech.

A couple of anecdotal examples of censorship by liberals include past efforts (several times) by them to seek to have Rush Limbaugh removed from broadcasting his radio show and the many occasions when Ann Coulter speaking events were disrupted and shortened by liberal protestors or the events were cancelled in advance of her appearances.

Calling a spade a spade is a very old saying which you may not have heard before. It just simply means speaking the absolute truth about something. I really cannot vouch for the origin of the saying because I heard it a long time ago and I never gave it another thought.

You have zero reading comprehension. The "I think it's irrelevant generally" was specifically about the Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays thing. Which I clarified earlier. Do you enjoy misrepresenting my points? I scrolled back up and I literally explained that I was targeting that comment towards the MC/HH thing and not political correctness in general. Did you not read that? Did you ignore it because if you acknowledged it, you'd reason you're wrong?

You haven't brought any honestly either. You don't actually respond to anything I say, you waffle around about my stance- the stance that I've explained many, many times.

I don't see a reason to try and have a conversation with you if you don't read anything I say. Stop saying "you're inconsistent" then cherry-picking two quotes about two different things to try and prove that. It's hilarious that you think you can call my dishonest when you do something like that.

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