Correct me if I'm wrong (not you SD, other credible NBA people who will look at this thread), but if LeBron never considers signing for more than 3 years, there is actually little or no money left on the table apples to apples.

Coz, w/ the new CBA up and the fact that the financial landscape of the league is going to VASTLY change there is no way in hell LBJ only reups for three years.

And there is still money left on the table since the % raises are larger for the Cavs. There is a thread like 3-5 pages back where WhackPhisto did all of the calculation on this. Feel free to go find it.

Last edited by e0y2e3 on Fri May 14, 2010 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bucher also says Dirk will go back to Dallas, DWade will return to Miami, and Pierce will return to the Celtics, the only guy he says will be gone is Bosh to Chicago and he thinks we should go after Ray Allen, I'm assuming he meant if Lebron stays. Grain of salt to all that, he's not really breaking much of anything.

The diff between a 6 year max with the Cavs and a 5 year with another franchise is nearly 30 mil. Cavs can offer ~125 over 6 years while another team can offer ~95 over 5 year. Of course, most of that 30 mil is on the extra year, so that argument is so stupid unless a guy is not going to get another max contract at the end of this one. Bron is young enough to think he will follow a 5 year deal with another max deal. So the real difference is only about 1.5 mil per year for 5 years, or 7.5 mil.

Exact #'s may be slightly off.

edit: of course, if the new CBA curtails salaries to such an extent that he will be far short of the 21-22 mil he would get in that last year, he loses whatever the diff is. So maybe he loses 7.5 for the next 5 years, and then another 5 on the 6th year.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Soul...I don't think he's going anywhere. Fans are nervous though, and they have a right to be as LeBron could have made a verbal committment at any time to staying in Cleveland. Maybe his agent has told him not to make such a verbal committment, as a negotiating ploy to get the best possible payday. I'd be impressed if LeBron came out Bernie Kosar style and said, get me some players, I'll take a paycut. I'd be floored by that, but it ain't happening.

I also agree a coaching change is in order. I've tried to support Mike Brown, but just never could get totally behind him. After years of watching Lenny Wilkins coach a Cavs team that had a lot less talent imo than the team we have now, and getting maximum effort and performance from that squad, I just couldn't get "Down with Brown."Wilkins' teams never showed any quit. Opposing point guards never had career days against us like we saw PGs have against Mo Williams and others all year.

The only thing that stopped Lenny was Michael Jordan. The Wilkins' Cavs teams played as a team. I don't know wtf I could call what I've seen out of Brown's team. Perhaps Brown is merely Doug Collins in disguise.

The Regular Season, shows that with the Cavs having the best record in the past couple of seasons, that they do have talent on the team. Is it enough? Well...the only way to prove that is to win a title.

The Post Season with Mike Brown in contrast to the regular season shows that when he faces teams with like or better talent, he is getting outcoached.

I really don't know how to make it any clearer.

Lenny Wilkins would have ran circles around the Celtics with the lineup Brown had this season. Wilkins ran plays to get his best players wide open. Brown's team just looks like they play street ball. Let's hope that Ferry and Gilbert can find a coach that knows X's and O's and how to run an offense that doesn't rely soley on one great player to carry an entire team.

I don't think James is going anywhere, but I am pretty sure he is frustrated and disillusioned now. I also feel that he has expressed subtly at times, that he doesn't care for Browns' rotations or coaching style. I think a big part of LeBron staying and resigning actually would have something to do with who they are going to land as the next coach. I wouldn't be surprised at all if this was discussed behind the scenes and in private, as a way to reassure LeBron that Gilbert was going to spare no expense to build a championship team. One has to wonder if Calipari is in the mix somehow, or for that matter who else is on the short list.

Last edited by Tree on Fri May 14, 2010 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

"It's all about winning for me, and I think the Cavs are committed to doing that," he said. "But at the same time I've given myself options to this point, and like I said before, me and my team, we have a game plan that we're going to execute, and we'll see what we get."

aoxo1 wrote:Yes Tree you effing moron. LBJ heard from his agent that the Cavs would not give him a max deal unless he acted like a bore for 7 years.

Do you have a single neuron firing, or is your ass in complete control of your mouth at this point?

So apparently you think LeBron not making a verbal committment means he is leaving? I simply think he wants to see what the market is going to be for his contract, so he didn't commit. Some team's gonna offer him a lot of jack, and the Cavs will simply top it, but LeBron isn't going to simply say, yah, I'm reupping.

So what part of my comments would you like me to delete, so as to make you feel more comfortable? Oh....the whole thing? Sure....whatever you say. I bow down to your superior intellect.

If you think my comments don't merit any discussion, ignore them. I'm not here to stir crap up. I am a Cavs fan, and am doing nothing more than discussing my thoughts. If maybe they aren't as well thought out as your one liners, then I do sincerely apologize.

Stay classy.

Last edited by Tree on Fri May 14, 2010 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

JCoz wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (not you SD, other credible NBA people who will look at this thread), but if LeBron never considers signing for more than 3 years, there is actually little or no money left on the table apples to apples.

So Rich can wipe his ass with that little theory, IMO.

SD:

Why would he re-sign or sign with anybody for less than the Max , the situation would really really really have to be totally untenable and even then business would still have to be consummated on a path which makes sense.

If push came to shove he'd orchestrate a sign and trade minimum sighting irreconcilable differences .

Yeah I know the Cavs sid they aren't down , however

Gilbert would have to bite , if Nike made his outside deals so lucrative with a package to a Chicago lets say it more than made up for the cash difference.

All these players coming available at the same time is no accident .

Wade Bosh Dirk Johnson Lebron and others have created a feeding frenzy to extort the max out of these franchises.

To even consider your idea that any of these guys let alone Lebron would level the playing field , for the owners is ludicrous , never mind the presumptive arroganceof your tone and continence .

fund that is what I fail to understand. The guy was a complete flop in his last NBA gig. However the guy is an excellent salesman, and the type of recruiter that would tell LeBron everything he wants to hear, and LeBron loves that as we can see...

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Why would he re-sign or sign with anybody for less than the Max , the situation would really really really have to be totally untenable and even then business would still have to be consummated on a path which makes sense.

If push came to shove he'd orchestrate a sign and trade minimum sighting irreconcilable differences .

Yeah I know the Cavs sid they aren't down , however

Gilbert would have to bite , if Nike made his outside deals so lucrative with a package to a Chicago lets say it more than made up for the cash difference.All these players coming available at the same time is no accident .

Wade Bosh Dirk Johnson Lebron and others have created a feeding frenzy to extort the max out of these franchises.

To even consider your idea that any of these guys let alone Lebron would level the playing field , for the owners is ludicrous , never mind the presumptive arroganceof your tone and continence .

SoulDawg

His Nike contract extention does not have any type of elevator clause that gives him more money for going to a larger market. He'll make the same from them whether he plays in Clev or NY/Chi

Some Cavaliers fans may be wondering whether LeBron James' recently signed Nike contract extension will have any bearing on his decision as a free agent. However, according to multiple sources, the new deal does not have any bonuses for James to play in a larger market such as New York, Chicago or Los Angeles. There has been some speculation that such clauses in endorsement deals may have been something for James to consider when he becomes a free agent in July. Instead, James will continue to focus on winning, which is helping shoe sales. The current version of James' signature shoe, the Zoom LeBron VI, has been the best-selling version of the shoe.

Last edited by Larvell Blanks on Fri May 14, 2010 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

fund that is what I fail to understand. The guy was a complete flop in his last NBA gig. However the guy is an excellent salesman, and the type of recruiter that would tell LeBron everything he wants to hear, and LeBron loves that as we can see...

aoxo1 wrote:Yes Tree you effing moron. LBJ heard from his agent that the Cavs would not give him a max deal unless he acted like a bore for 7 years.

Do you have a single neuron firing, or is your ass in complete control of your mouth at this point?

So apparently you think LeBron not making a verbal committment means he is leaving? I simply think he wants to see what the market is going to be for his contract, so he didn't commit. Some team's gonna offer him a lot of jack, and the Cavs will simply top it, but LeBron isn't going to simply say, yah, I'm reupping.

So what part of my comments would you like me to delete, so as to make you feel more comfortable? Oh....the whole thing? Sure....whatever you say. I bow down to your superior intellect.

If you think my comments don't merit any discussion, ignore them. I'm not here to stir crap up. I am a Cavs fan, and am doing nothing more than discussing my thoughts. If maybe they aren't as well thought out as your one liners, then I do sincerely apologize.

Stay classy.

It doesn't matter what you think. The NBA has something called max contracts and LeBron could get one from any team far enough under the salary cap. There is no such thing as "exploring the market" for a player of his stature. He gets the maximum, that's that. And everyone has known it since the 4th quarter of his 1st game in the association.

If you can't be bothered to understand the most basic of facts about the NBA, don't vomit out 5 paragraphs of repeating shit over and over again.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

aoxo1 wrote:Yes Tree you effing moron. LBJ heard from his agent that the Cavs would not give him a max deal unless he acted like a bore for 7 years.

Do you have a single neuron firing, or is your ass in complete control of your mouth at this point?

So apparently you think LeBron not making a verbal committment means he is leaving? I simply think he wants to see what the market is going to be for his contract, so he didn't commit. Some team's gonna offer him a lot of jack, and the Cavs will simply top it, but LeBron isn't going to simply say, yah, I'm reupping.

So what part of my comments would you like me to delete, so as to make you feel more comfortable? Oh....the whole thing? Sure....whatever you say. I bow down to your superior intellect.

If you think my comments don't merit any discussion, ignore them. I'm not here to stir crap up. I am a Cavs fan, and am doing nothing more than discussing my thoughts. If maybe they aren't as well thought out as your one liners, then I do sincerely apologize.

Stay classy.

It doesn't matter what you think. The NBA has something called max contracts and LeBron could get one from any team far enough under the salary cap. There is no such thing as "exploring the market" for a player of his stature. He gets the maximum, that's that. And everyone has known it since the 4th quarter of his 1st game in the association.

If you can't be bothered to understand the most basic of facts about the NBA, don't vomit out 5 paragraphs of repeating shit over and over again.

I fully understand what the Cavs can offer LeBron as opposed to other teams. They can outbid any team for him according to the CBA. What is the Max that can be offered James? Is there an actual number? If there is, I've never seen it mentioned. I never claimed to be an NBA capologist. Maybe instead of being a dick, you could educate me a bit...I mean...that's how people have civil discussions...at least...that's what I was told at one time.

Last edited by Tree on Fri May 14, 2010 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why would he re-sign or sign with anybody for less than the Max , the situation would really really really have to be totally untenable and even then business would still have to be consummated on a path which makes sense.

If push came to shove he'd orchestrate a sign and trade minimum sighting irreconcilable differences .

Yeah I know the Cavs sid they aren't down , however

Gilbert would have to bite , if Nike made his outside deals so lucrative with a package to a Chicago lets say it more than made up for the cash difference.All these players coming available at the same time is no accident .

Wade Bosh Dirk Johnson Lebron and others have created a feeding frenzy to extort the max out of these franchises.

To even consider your idea that any of these guys let alone Lebron would level the playing field , for the owners is ludicrous , never mind the presumptive arroganceof your tone and continence .

SoulDawg

His re-upped Nike contract does not have any type of elevator clause that gives him more money for going to a larger market. He'll make the same from them whether he plays in Clev or NY/Chi

SD:

Unlike the NBA marketing contracts can be torn up and revamped, hell he could get a suborned deal if something came afoot which effected the China market .

As one analyst succinctly pointed out the true target market is the $300 million ballers in China.

Not NYC , currently Kobe is the biggest star in China way more than Lebron because of CHAMPIONSHIPS.

A Championship tied to the Lebron logo is worth Billions especially sense he's now retired his 23 number and will net millions of new sales as soon as 36 hits the market.

Add the ring to that marketing corp and its well worth """his teams""" interestsnot the Cavaliers persay , to place him in the best situation which will insure that happens .

Tree wrote:I fully understand what the Cavs can offer LeBron as opposed to other teams. What is the Max that can be offered James? Is there an actual number? If there is, I've never seen it mentioned. I never claimed to be an NBA capologist. Maybe instead of being a dick, you could educate me a bit...I mean...that's how people have civil discussions...at least...that's what I was told at one time.

The number is based on the cap.

Since I can't speak for aoxo, I would assume he was a dick because you rambled on about something acting as if you are some genius when you have basic simple things completely incorrect.

Tree wrote:I fully understand what the Cavs can offer LeBron as opposed to other teams. What is the Max that can be offered James? Is there an actual number? If there is, I've never seen it mentioned. I never claimed to be an NBA capologist. Maybe instead of being a dick, you could educate me a bit...I mean...that's how people have civil discussions...at least...that's what I was told at one time.

Read the thread before you post. I already posted it.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

Tree wrote:I fully understand what the Cavs can offer LeBron as opposed to other teams. What is the Max that can be offered James? Is there an actual number? If there is, I've never seen it mentioned. I never claimed to be an NBA capologist. Maybe instead of being a dick, you could educate me a bit...I mean...that's how people have civil discussions...at least...that's what I was told at one time.

The number is based on the cap.

Since I can't speak for aoxo, I would assume he was a dick because you rambled on about something acting as if you are some genius when you have basic simple things completely incorrect.

Kind of like SD saying that Pierce had to leave to get a ring.

I'm not a genius. I actually would like to learn a bit more about the NBA. I'm a fan, but never got into the contract thingy. I don't care too much for it.

I was just posting my thoughts on Soul's topic. If I rambled on, it's because well, that's the way I am sometimes. Never meant anything by it. So, if I am the board's village idiot I suppose, it's the hat I must wear, but I am not here to beat my chest and tell everyone what a genius I am, and also concurrently tell everyone else that they don't have an effin neuron firing in their brains.

I've tried to lookup that "number" never seen it. Maybe I should have looked harder. What is it?

Tree wrote:I fully understand what the Cavs can offer LeBron as opposed to other teams. What is the Max that can be offered James? Is there an actual number? If there is, I've never seen it mentioned. I never claimed to be an NBA capologist. Maybe instead of being a dick, you could educate me a bit...I mean...that's how people have civil discussions...at least...that's what I was told at one time.

Read the thread before you post. I already posted it.

Thanks, at the time I replied my first reply, your comments were not there. Had I read that, I probably would have not made the comments I made to the degree I made them.

So I learned something today. The 30 mill Soul was talking about is the additional money and additional year according to the CBA that that Cavs can offer James. I originally was under the impression that this number wasn't set. I've not participated in salary cap threads regarding the Cavs before.

e0y2e3 wrote:Coz, w/ the new CBA up and the fact that the financial landscape of the league is going to VASTLY change there is no way in hell LBJ only reups for three years.

And there is still money left on the table since the % raises are larger for the Cavs. There is a thread like 3-5 pages back where WhackPhisto did all of the calculation on this. Feel free to go find it.

Right, and I will go find it, but can you expand on why he would sig long term in this landscape?

I mean, with the economy where it is and the cap going where it is, why would it make more financial sense to sign long term? Unless it was with the cavs, off his current deal, without opting out?

Wouldn't it make more sense to sign for three and see where the financial landscape is in three years?

JCoz wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (not you SD, other credible NBA people who will look at this thread), but if LeBron never considers signing for more than 3 years, there is actually little or no money left on the table apples to apples.

So Rich can wipe his ass with that little theory, IMO.

SD:

Why would he re-sign or sign with anybody for less than the Max , the situation would really really really have to be totally untenable and even then business would still have to be consummated on a path which makes sense.

If push came to shove he'd orchestrate a sign and trade minimum sighting irreconcilable differences .

Yeah I know the Cavs sid they aren't down , however

Gilbert would have to bite , if Nike made his outside deals so lucrative with a package to a Chicago lets say it more than made up for the cash difference.

All these players coming available at the same time is no accident .

Wade Bosh Dirk Johnson Lebron and others have created a feeding frenzy to extort the max out of these franchises.

To even consider your idea that any of these guys let alone Lebron would level the playing field , for the owners is ludicrous , never mind the presumptive arroganceof your tone and continence .

SoulDawg

SD, I'm not trying to be overly dickish about this, but your ideas about the Cavs and getting rid of saleries and signing or aquiring Bosh demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding on how these things work.

Hence my dig that someone else should correct my logic on this.

That's as nice as I can be regarding that.

Anyways, I'd like to understand the difference this time in signing max years as opposed to last time he was approaching FA.

Any pointing to signing a max deal for money reasons has to consider the difference between extending off his current deal as opposed to opting out. Meaning, if maxing dollars was the goal, there is no way you should opt out at all. And what would be the benifit of signing max year without a sign and trade as opposed to signing for 4 with an opt out clause as he did this time?

e0y2e3 wrote:Coz, w/ the new CBA up and the fact that the financial landscape of the league is going to VASTLY change there is no way in hell LBJ only reups for three years.

And there is still money left on the table since the % raises are larger for the Cavs. There is a thread like 3-5 pages back where WhackPhisto did all of the calculation on this. Feel free to go find it.

Right, and I will go find it, but can you expand on why he would sig long term in this landscape?

I mean, with the economy where it is and the cap going where it is, why would it make more financial sense to sign long term? Unless it was with the cavs, off his current deal, without opting out?

Wouldn't it make more sense to sign for three and see where the financial landscape is in three years?

All the speculation about the new CBA is that max contract length and payout will both shrink.

I know more about pizza than you. Much more in fact. - Cerebral_DownTime

JCoz wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong (not you SD, other credible NBA people who will look at this thread), but if LeBron never considers signing for more than 3 years, there is actually little or no money left on the table apples to apples.

So Rich can wipe his ass with that little theory, IMO.

SD:

Why would he re-sign or sign with anybody for less than the Max , the situation would really really really have to be totally untenable and even then business would still have to be consummated on a path which makes sense.

If push came to shove he'd orchestrate a sign and trade minimum sighting irreconcilable differences .

Yeah I know the Cavs sid they aren't down , however

Gilbert would have to bite , if Nike made his outside deals so lucrative with a package to a Chicago lets say it more than made up for the cash difference.

All these players coming available at the same time is no accident .

Wade Bosh Dirk Johnson Lebron and others have created a feeding frenzy to extort the max out of these franchises.

To even consider your idea that any of these guys let alone Lebron would level the playing field , for the owners is ludicrous , never mind the presumptive arroganceof your tone and continence .

SoulDawg

SD, I'm not trying to be overly dickish about this, but your ideas about the Cavs and getting rid of saleries and signing or aquiring Bosh demonstrated an extreme lack of understanding on how these things work.

Hence my dig that someone else should correct my logic on this.

That's as nice as I can be regarding that.

Anyways, I'd like to understand the difference this time in signing max years as opposed to last time he was approaching FA.

Any pointing to signing a max deal for money reasons has to consider the difference between extending off his current deal as opposed to opting out. Meaning, if maxing dollars was the goal, there is no way you should opt out at all. And what would be the benifit of signing max year without a sign and trade as opposed to signing for 4 with an opt out clause as he did this time?

fund that is what I fail to understand. The guy was a complete flop in his last NBA gig. However the guy is an excellent salesman, and the type of recruiter that would tell LeBron everything he wants to hear, and LeBron loves that as we can see...

He's The Answer as far as his agent's wildest financial dreams.

That's all that matters guys, but I'm guessing you learned this lesson a long time ago. We can't put our values in these men.

Just accept, and be pleasantly surprised if a mirical happens. Unless yer herm and Doug, then go kick a dog.