If one removes/prevents the (potential) feeling of revenge from existing in a person (without force), they will lack a psychological mechanism to compensate (fully) with, and thus feel like a victim (defenseless against a wrongdoer who inflicted something upon them).

If someone is prevented from enacting the revenge they want to enact by forces outside their control, they will feel victimized.

Revenge is then an act to reclaim ones honor or personal power in response to having been wronged. To "get back at" another is to reclaim what they took from you. It's that feeling that they took something from you that will lead you to feeling like a victim if you are unable to get back at them. But it's circular. There are ways to reclaim ones own internal feelings of power without taking direct action against others... however that mindset is contrary to vengeance in the first place.

I guess how I see vengeance is as a need to convey to someone who has wronged you what they did to you, so they will truly understand how you feel and their own responsibility in this matter. There's something extremely alluring about it, while at the same time there is also the path of it, which only leads to more and more of it... where you desperately seek vengeance and nothing can ever be enough to satisfy the feeling. What does satisfy the feeling is reclaiming your power or receiving some recompense (tangible or intangible) for what you (unjustly) lost (it was taken). When this must be enacted in the external world (rather than simply played out in your mind) it is vengeance. So if you aren't allowed to do this, then your feelings may implode in upon themselves, because you're powerless to even make up for what you did lose, and so you can't move on. Then you would just have to feel that way for a long time until you either go insane, or until the mind is tired of it, but then you might emerge as less than what you were.

It's so strange... you have to see yourself as a victim to even want vengeance. It's not dissimilar to how you have to see yourself as "bad" to feel guilty. It's a reinforcing loop.

"Interestingly, psychologists have found that the thwarted psychological expectation of revenge may lead to issues of victimhood."

It means that if you don't get your revenge if you have avenging feelings, you might fall in to victim-attitude (not socionics).

...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

Also I read somewhere that:"the civilized men are actually more uncivilized in their conduct than the barbarians, because for the same offence among barbarians, you would get your head cleaved in half."

...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

If someone is prevented from enacting the revenge they want to enact by forces outside their control, they will feel victimized.

Revenge is then an act to reclaim ones honor or personal power in response to having been wronged. To "get back at" another is to reclaim what they took from you. It's that feeling that they took something from you that will lead you to feeling like a victim if you are unable to get back at them. But it's circular. There are ways to reclaim ones own internal feelings of power without taking direct action against others... however that mindset is contrary to vengeance in the first place.

I guess how I see vengeance is as a need to convey to someone who has wronged you what they did to you, so they will truly understand how you feel and their own responsibility in this matter. There's something extremely alluring about it, while at the same time there is also the path of it, which only leads to more and more of it... where you desperately seek vengeance and nothing can ever be enough to satisfy the feeling. What does satisfy the feeling is reclaiming your power or receiving some recompense (tangible or intangible) for what you (unjustly) lost (it was taken). When this must be enacted in the external world (rather than simply played out in your mind) it is vengeance. So if you aren't allowed to do this, then your feelings may implode in upon themselves, because you're powerless to even make up for what you did lose, and so you can't move on. Then you would just have to feel that way for a long time until you either go insane, or until the mind is tired of it, but then you might emerge as less than what you were.

It's so strange... you have to see yourself as a victim to even want vengeance. It's not dissimilar to how you have to see yourself as "bad" to feel guilty. It's a reinforcing loop.

It sounds like you really understand Victims in both Socionics term and in real life victims who had been wrong and the matters of vengeance. How do you feel when people tell a person, to let it go, to forget what happen, when saying that only adds more fire to an already built up pain that the weak has. As the person usually end up helpless, and always get stomp at in most situation unable to stand up for themselves. yet some people doesn't really understand the pain and agony of how much they've been hurt, and give simply response like "oh just let it go", when letting it go doesn't solved the problem but will only make things ever more worse? those who take things less serious or take it as a matter of just words and only value the surface of things is the one who usually says that.

(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

Originally Posted by Jarno

1)
A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

2)
A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.

I don't really do it myself, but I gladly would, if I had the equipment.

I think you might have to buy the beans fresh, maybe somewhere in the farmers market and then roast them, even with your own pans, I have heard that will make the best cup of coffee even better and more fresher than the one you buy at your local starbuck.

(D)IEE~FI-(C)SLE~Ni E-5w4(Sp/Sx)/7w8(So/Sp)/9w1(sp/sx)

Originally Posted by Jarno

1)
A girl who I want to date, asks me: well first tell me how tall you are?
My reply: well I will answer that, if you first tell me how much you weigh!

2)
A girl I was dating said she was oh so great at sex etc, but she didn't do blowjobs.
My reply: Oh I'm really romantic etc, I just will never take you out to dinner.