>>118063186Mmm, not quite? Stroke order isn't so tough. Radicals all have the same stroke order and they're universally present in Kanji. The tough part is remembering exactly what radicals were where in a kanji.>>118063223Dictionary of Japanese Grammar.

>>118063383It's an exception.Exceptions are pretty rare, overall. To be reasonably sure you haven't met one, look up the stroke order for all the radicals/kanji which don't visibly consist from other radicals or the readicals/kanji which you haven't seen written yet when you meet them; to be really, 99% sure, check out anything that seems funny or kinda confusing to you, if you're sure you know how to write this one, you most likely do know it, and if you aren't sure (i.e., it breaks some patterns), it mostly likely is still written in the most boring and consistent way possible, but when you've seen it written one time, the "exception" usually works the same in every other kanji too.There are a few exceptions even from these rules (e.g., left and right), but they're pretty rare, at least from those kanji I've studied the stroke order of, i.e. about half of Jouyou.I'm going through RTK, so it could be that the pattern just utterly breaks closer to the end, but I really doubt it.

>>118062510I'll be on the country side next week and I can only bring camera and my DS for entertainment. Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DS? I'm not so advanced yet but I can make sentences like 彼女は私に指輪呉れて貰った。

>>118064360>Do you guys approve of My Japanese Coach DSEr... no. It might be marginally better than nothing, but I doubt it. It might be better to print a bunch of kanji detailed sheets from RTK or somesuch and bring them with you.

>>118063841He probably associated it with 日 or 月 or 田 which are written beginning with vertical, which they do because the second stroke goes both horizontal and vertical, as the first stroke in 母 goes. When it doesn't, the horizontal stroke is usually the first, though.Overall, he's right, and I was confused about the same thing for a really long time. This kanji is just an exception, overall.

>>118064529I tried to look it up.I would've never guessed, even though it does kinda look like it.It doesn't help that just 口 is used too much to be useful (my dictionary has about 1000 kanji with it) and the second part looks really much like 反 but is not this radical.So, I guess, thanks for telling me 及 can be written this way? Custom fonts are really the worst. No wonder Japan has so few of them.

One thing that's more confusing about kanji is the combination of on/kun and it's meaning.For example: 寝取られ寝 means sleep取 means takebut 寝取られ means "stealing loved ones from a person" so it should have a different kanji. It's killing me.

>>118064919You're welcome; it is the 及 radical. I only realized it 'cuz 吸 was present in both the Jisho searches. Indeed, fuck custom fonts. I'm sure someone very familiar with Japanese is gonna pop in and say that's a common style, though.

>>118065408I used to think the same, but then I realized I become too dependent on just looking things up so quickly that I stopped tying to memorize things. Now I only use physical because i know it takes more effort and is less efficient so I typically put more effort into remembering words I look up.

>>118065866I look up words via radical search and manual typing, not rikai or ITH or some such. I honestly don't see how looking down a huge list of words, trying to wrap my head around radical order / their kana order will help me too much.

>looking at the guide>"You may want to simply use the shared deck for Anki">There isn't a link to that in the resources listWhat is this mysterious deck? I know there is a kanjidamage deck for anki, but I don't know how "Shared" comes in to play here.

>>118066702There is no point in kanji is you don't know the words associated with them. What is the point of learning 章or 品 if you don't even know any words that use those kanji. Once you know the word 商品 you already learned both kanji. However, the reverse is not true, you can know both 商 and 品 individually as kanji but you might not know that both of them together make up a common word.

Wasn't this argument won ages ago? That is why no one does RTK or Kanji Damage.

>>118066716I haven't finished Core yet, but I started out using it alongside a KD deck. I felt like the KD deck was useless as most of the things I was learning with the KD deck I was learning about with the Core deck, but in a less convoluted manner.

>>118066684My visual memory is pretty good, I just need a lot of practice and that's it.

If I feel like I'm missing something Kanji-wise I'll surely give it another go.

>>118066940I made the mistake of doing kanji damage before getting grammar and vocab down. I wont say it was a wasted 3 months because I learned a lot about radicals and mnemonic devices but it is the inefficient route.

With Grammar and Vocab at the very least you will be able to understand spoken Japanese.

Individual kanji study is really more of a late game thing. You will natually pick up the 500-1000 most common kanji if you just spend more time learning the language.

>>118067396No extra time at all if you are already writing as a way of learning kanji. I don't get it, people doing 1000+ anki cards per 30 min by holding down enter really think that is practice? I set aside only 30 min to go over the new kanji I have learned in the past week. Once you know the stroke order you don't need weird nmumonics, once you learn to write all the radicals all kanji are pieces of cake to write. Only the new ones will give you problems.

>>118067396If you can't write in a language you can't call yourself fluent or literate, period. Stop being a fucking child and accept the fact that being able to write in the target language is just as important as every other aspect of the language.

If an adult were able to read, speak, and comprehend spoken English, but they weren't able to write a sentence properly, I'd consider them borderline retarded.

>>118066915Knowing the kanji in a word you don't know makes it much easier to learn, which makes it easier to pick up new words you see while reading.

From core 2k to 10k there are ~1100 unique kanji, and 8000 words. It would be much faster to learn those kanji on their own, or with one word, and likely more beneficial, since you don't want to learn literally all of your vocabulary from anki.

>>118067794>you don't need to be autistic about itBeing unable to write in a language you can speak, read and comprehend the spoken language of is something people may consider a symptom of a mental defect such as Autism.

>>118067567You still mess up what radicals go there though. I have a copybook with all the 常用漢字(25 fucking times each, you bitch). It was fun and my handwriting is pretty good now but I wouldn't say it's very educational.

>>118067881>Knowing a kanji does not make it easier to learn a word.It does, and this is due to how the human brain handles language. You can say it doesn't all you like but the science contradicts this.

>>118067936No it does not help you learn the spoken word or help to identify it in listening or speaking. All it will do is help you recognize a word when it is written. I will NOT help you learn to speak or identify the word when it is spoken.

>>118067713>>118067794Sad too see even after all this time, the DJT still has "definition of literacy" trolls/autists, and the djt still eats the bait. Feel free to search the archive, this topic has had thousands of posts dedicated to it.

>>118068058Do whatever you want. No one has proven one method to be more efficient than the other. Just choose whichever one seems less tedious to you. Don't be like the anon in the previous thread I think it was who had restarted RtK 10 times or whatever

>>118068250You won't be able to write with a pen, you might mix up kanji, it will take a bit longer to learn words (but not "impossibly longer").But you will probably be able to read and speak and listen just fine. With time.

>>118068345That being able to write Japanese properly is a vital aspect of Japanese language competency, that and a lack of writing proficiency will form a bottleneck to your total language proficiency.

>>118068395I only learned this one after reading the guide (which was pretty late into my studies, because I didn't know about DJT). Before I was convinced otherwise.Maybe all these people didn't read the guide too?

>>118068456>ConjectureWhy do I see it in threads all the time then? Do you think I personally write all these posts.>MisleadingYeah, you're right, I completely forgot that it could be misinterprented. I wanted to write about it, but it just slipped my mind in the process.Mind you, RTK takes 2 months tops with a good schedule, but learning Core is probably quicker overall.

>>118068369Surely with enough practice I'll be able to differentiate Kanji, though? I guess I'll keep doing Kanji, I'm just scared I'll turn myself off from doing Japanese because of how pointless some of it is whilst I'm doing Core2k/6k.

>>118068265It depends on what you mean by learning them in conjunction. Core takes 10,000 words to cover 2000 kanji. You could still learn those kanji through vocab but use fewer cards.

If it's more efficient to learn new words in context by reading, and if it's easier to learn new words when you already know their kanji, then it might be most efficient to use the least cards necessary to learn the kanji, and then get new words by reading.

>>118068736Well, yeah, with enough practice you will. Or if you go through the radicals and learn to differentiate them.Also, the further you go, the harder it will be to stop. Because effort justification.Mind you, I'm doing RTK on Anki, and I think it's the better method, because it doesn't bore me out of my mind and being able to write is neat and its flaws are overblown, I think, but just saying, the further you go, the less sensible it will seem to stop. Unless you're really only beginning, then you might do like 100 to get an understanding of the way kanji work.Also, if you do it, do it quick. It is possible and it is preferrable to lazing around. RTK only pays off all the time waste on it, if you go in half a year, max. 2 months is a perfectly normal figure, by the way.

>>118068989That kind of depends what you mean by "learn". Anki is great for planting the seeds of familiarity for a great many words in a short amount of time, but does it help you learn them? Isn't that something you do by reading native material after you have succinctly seeded enough words to make a bit of a spongy bed for yourself which makes the fall into native material a little bit softer?

There's a 3rd and it's actually very helpful. That is to use the meaning of kanji to drive how you think about the words. Doing it this way, you don't memorize their meanings you just gloss over them. Say you know お茶, and 色, and then you come across 茶色. If you simply glance at the meaning of the kanji you can then see a very convenient way to remember the kanji that appear in the word "light-brown".

If you start doing this you will notice tons of shortcuts like that which make memorizing the words a breeze.It's so helpful to do it this way I can't even imagine how much more difficult of a time I would be having if I hadn't been doing this

>>118069004Is the RTK deck in the guide? I'm using the KD deck but it's boring just looking at them and learning how to say them. I am only a beginner so that's probably why I'm not a fan of Kanji since the ones I'm learning are more often than not in Core2k/6k.

>>118069122Only for more complicated words, I'd say. But yes, to an extent. But reading is the end goal for most of us and something we will be doing anyway, so it's not like you choose Anki instead of reading. You choose Anki to facilitate reading

>>118069176I'm all for exploring options but everyone keeps telling me different things that I'm not sure what exactly to do. That's the problem I have with Japanese, there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.

>>118069434Just fucking commit to something. However inefficient Rtk or Anki might be relative each other, you're going to end up wasting more time if you don't choose one alternative now and just start actually studying

>>118069434>there's so many ways to learn it that I'm not sure what's best for me.Pick one and use it till it stops working, then move onto something else.

You're not going to know what works for you until you've already spent a long time studying. There maybe be up to 10% of efficiency to be gained by methodology alone, but the rest comes down to actual time spent with the language.

>>118069434The only way you'll know is by trying something that sounds attractive, analyzing what works, and doesn't work, and adjusting from there. It's how we all came to our different methods, and it's the only road a self-learner has to find theirs.

>>118069180Dunno, I looked it up on the Anki site.As a result I chose two decks: one that contains only kanji and meaning (keyword->kanji; the other way is probably more useful for recognition, because you might not remember the kanji immediately upon seeing it, but I didn't change it because this one forces me to learn them better and get creative with stories, and in 90% of cases I remember them right away anyway) and another one that has two top stories from Reviewing The Kanji site (because I was too lazy to register there, and most often two top stories are enough, and if they're not I think up my own story). I don't use the second deck for reviews because I don't want to be able to look up the story unless I have to, so I only use it for cross-referencing the stories through the browser.Though my way is probably hella backwards. I just kinda rolled with it when I had no idea, and now I'm too lazy and it works good enough for me to change it.

>>118069434I'm approaching 3 years into Japanese now, anon. I have tried many different methods by now, and have settled on one that works. You just do something, whatever it is, then improve it by adding shit that might work, removing stuff that doesn't, and just putting in time while you try that shit out.

>>118069703I've used a few decks but they just don't hit the right spot for me. I'm just looking for a deck that seperates the Onyomi and Kunyomi onto different cards, but I can't find anything like that and the closest thing is Core2k/6k.

>>118069794If you're doing RTK, you don't learn readings.There are different opinions about and against RTK, but pretty much everybody agrees actually learning readings if you're going through kanji is not a good idea.You either learn the words with readins right away through RTK, or you go through kanji with only approximate keywords as your guide, commit them to memory until both the stories and the keywords fall off to make way for pure concepts expressed by the word, and learn reading on the fly while... reading, pretty much. Or maybe going through Core2k on a turbo-pace you got because you already know the kanji, I dunno, I'm not sure about that at the moment. Reading seems like a method that would work better to me, because most manga uses furigana anyway, many VNs use voice acting, and I have a good digital dictionary + Interactive Text Hooker, but I'm not really sure how well it would work, 'cause I didn't try it.Bottom line is, you don't learn readings. Why? Because there's lots of the words that are exceptions and a few words that have just too much readings to remember. I don't know, maybe you might be able to learn something that away, but pretty much everybody seems to think it's inefficient; I never tried, but its inefficiency makes sense to me.If you want to learn readings right away, do Core. If you want to do kanji, drop the readings, they will just confuse you. That's my advice.

>>118070644I don't even remember. I think it was some stupid banner that said "You can't learn Japanese without our help"./a/ ran away with the phrase, and now she's a lot more powerful than she was ever supposed to be.4chan has just created a demon. And DJT is at fault....No, I'm not talking about Slenderman.

>>118070202You still have to learn all those readings when you learn them through core, though.

Knowing the meanings of kanji on their own would be completely useless to me, since the readings always take me longer to learn. I would much rather learn the meaning and 1 or 2 readings of 1000 kanji than the just the meanings of 2500.

>>118071048They're not supposed to be "meanings" as much as figurative "hooks" for your mind to use to remember words, like >>118069176 says.RTK pretty much works by dividing up learning what the kanji look like and how to write them, and readings with meanings, where readings have to be learnt from scratch, and meanings are learnt in 1% the time needed usually. For example, the first word in the example is "tea" and the second is "colour", and it is really easy to get "light-brown" from a "tea colour". Hell, most of the time the tea is more brown than black I think (also kinda close to red, but it won't cause much confusion, I think).Well, except for the meanings of isolated kanji, but these are in the minority.Though I don't know, maybe your method will work too. I just really doubt it. The readins system is just riddled with exceptions. Not a good idea.If you're still interested, I will also notice that RTK2 teaches exactly reading. I didn't use, but you might want to look into it, and if it's gonna be any help.Oh, also, the order of kanji in RTK is not utility-based, but rather the one in which is is the easiest to remember them one after another. So, the payoff from it doesn't come until you've a large chunk into the book. The good things about Core is that it pays off right.There are also some Jouyou kanji which aren't actually used anymore, but they are so rare that they don't matter and you might as well just learn everything right away.

>>118072159>>118072258... A fair point.Well, you could technically interpret alone as "without a teacher"...Also, I was learning it completely alone for about 2 years. I hardly have done anything except the kana, the very beginning of Tae Kim and the very beginning of vocabulary grinding.It was pretty much considering the resources I had, in retrospect, but I learned about 2 times more in these 4 months alone, I think.

>>118071363RTK2 teaches the readings associated to the radicals and their position. It sounds useful but it seems the method Heisig used is incredibly counterintuitive, not to mention it won't take into account the countless reading exceptions there are. Not even Koohii likes the second book.You get a feel for those patterns naturally when you learn vocabulary, kanji similar enough in form are often read the same way.

I fucked up and didn't do reps for 2 days. I ended up with 500 review cards. After I did 250 of those 500 reps legit, I just spammed "good" to get it over with. My motivation still hasn't recovered after two weeks. I have been doing reps, but I can't find the motivation to read/otherwise expose myself to nip media. Overall, I'm feeling kind of burned out. How do I into motivation?

Also, what's the deal with this new captcha thing? It broke my 4chan extension.

It's three strokes. The loop should be one continuous motion. Something about writing with old calligraphy brushes, you'd raise it to make a thin portion through there which doesn't work with pen and pencil.

As for correctness. Neither are incorrect though sticklers will want the gap. My Japanese teacher didn't care which one we did.

So I'm a newfag who knows hiragana and katakana and but I'm stuck with where to go next. Genki doesn't seem to use any Kanji but 'Japanese the manga way' does. Whats the best way to learn grammar and Kanji at the same time?

>>118066052> take N2 test> audio part> pretty difficultIt wasn't easy that's for sure. The last question (3-1, 3-2) was horrible for me. My neighbors all had different answers for this one, which was funny in a way.

>>118074929Use tae kim if you can, its the best and quickest, if not then japanese the manga way

I tried tae kim and thought it was confusing, then read through the manga way and later went back to tae kim only to realize it was suddenly a lot easier to follow due to manga way introducing me to a bunch of shit, so i started using that instead

After you've got basic grammar down download the core 2k/6k optimized deck for anki, change the card layout to the one in the guide and start using that every day, making sure to still continue studying grammar

How do you guys practice writing kanji? I've been trying practice sheets, but all the ones I've found include a bunch of kanji on one page, but not enough tracing and blank squares in the grid It's frustrating only wanting to practice a few kanji but having to print out a bunch of them that I'm not learning yet. It's such a waste of ink.

>>118068121It's just a matter of fact that the definition of "fluency" includes "able to write".>>118079820Moot integrated it's features into the main site like a year ago, so there's no use for it now.

>>118078308Palm of your hand, alternatively some regular lined paper. Usually I only write something out repetitively when it's a leech. Eventually you get a feel for stroke order and only need to remember exceptions so practicing it becomes mostly unnecessary.

>>118069732>>118069910As someone who used Nama Sensei - more important than his videos are that you start up Anki ASAP. He's not gonna teach you all of Japanese and you're gonna need a solid source of vocab.

>>118078652My characters always come out looking like absolute shit when writing free hand. That's why I want to trace first so I can get a feel for the shape and the subtle flairs/curves. Maybe I'll just print out an image of the character and then place another sheet over it for tracing.

>>118078703I can just use the dictionary I'm using since it shows all the radicals for any given kanji. Thank you for the tip, it's much more efficient than memorizing individual kanji stroke order.

>>118078824I've seen a few apps for that but wasn't sure if they would help my characters look any less shitty. But I suppose if all I am trying to learn is stroke order than a touchscreen will do ok. I can just download it to my phone since I don't have a tablet.

Just started with the guide. Had always postponed my learning of japanese but since I have so much time now I'll give it ago.Kanjis are still intimidating. How many kanjis are needed to be able to read stuff properly?

>>118080522You can "read" at any time. As for kanji, you only need about 2000-ish to comfortably read it *with the occasional kanji look up.* In which case, learning 5-6 a day will get you to your goal in a year.

Really though you should be learning kanji thru vocabulary which makes them not intimidating. And waiting a year to wait isn't good.

That's because you're a beginner. You weren't printing perfect A's in kindergarten. Those subtle curves and flares don't really matter much as long as it's legible. Imo, I don't think you should be aiming for perfect autistic handwriting, especially when the Japanese have the shittiest handwriting I've seen to date.

>>118081175I dunno, I'd be doing a disservice to give you a straight up time frame. I did core2k/6k for 7 months and learned 1k kanji because I was going so slow. Then I manned up and started focusing on new kanji, and learned 500-ish in a SINGLE month. It all depends on your mindset and approach.

>>118081176>Although rare and optional in EnglishA lot of them, or rather, the one I saw is just bullshit I don't even know. 20 head of cattle? Yeah, I have no fuckin' clue that "head" is a counter, I'm just gonna think of it as "20 cattle" even in English. So thanks for confirming my method as universally solid.

>>118081890In communication, ideas are often simplified. When speaking about English, I don't have to clarify "In contemporary, used English, counters don't have a heavy presence, if they're present at all". What you did wasn't correct someone who was wrong - you were autistic about "absolute correctness" instead of having a genuine conversation. tl;dr don't be an autist, it's annoying.

>>118083381>>118074696You don't need motivation to do reps. Just do them. The only obstacle between you and Japanese is doing your reps; so you do them. It's not something you need to motivate yourself for- it's just something you do. It's a lifestyle.

>>118086298Ultimately it's the sad fact of "who cares if they know who I am"? I'm a NEET who does nothing with his live except learn Japanese. Perhaps the government will force a Rising Sun patch upon me to wear at all times, but really, there's nothing significant about me remaining anonymous.

I've got a quick question about a line in FF VII. I'm playing the game for fun and practice. It's surprisingly not too hard outside of some slurring and Kansai-ben. Anyway, if anyone here has played the game you may remember the part at the beginning of disc 2 where Cloud and Elena meet in Icicle Inn. This was right after Tseng got fucked up in the Temple of the Ancients. In the English version Elena says:

> But you really got guts doin' my boss in like that!In the Japanese version it's>よくも私のボスをやってくれたわね！

I've heard that "doing in" is a mistranslation and that the PC version changed it to something like "messing up my boss". When I looked やって up I found that やる can mean "to do someone in" so I can see how the translators translated it the way they did initially. I'm not sure how it can be seen any other way.

Then again, やってくれ can mean "to have been doing something" so can やってくれた possibly mean "to have done"? As in "How dare you have done that to my boss"?

>>118089112>>118089132I get picture on desktop. On mobile it says:Sync ErrorConnection timed out. Either your internet connection is experiencing problems or you have a very large file in your media folder.

>>118089897My IQ increases with every kanji I learn. I started with an IQ of 150, so I automatically knew 150 kanji before I even started. At this point my IQ is roughly 1200, and I can pick up new kanji simply by seeing them once even without context or furigana.

whats the best way to learn hiragana/katakana without actually writing them? is there any specific resources that are not extremely difficult to use and can actually help me remember what they all look like and are pronounced like without focusing on stroke order and that type of stuff?

>>118090293I think those who know the kanji, or studied kanji individually, aren't too familiar with the benefits of doing so; because it's like, you can't appreciate happiness without having felt sadness. When I read anything in Japanese, there's always a mental block when looking at kanji, where I (as of yet) are still unfamiliar with them such that I can't instantly recognize most, there's always some struggling. Something like 残す is common, but just uncommon enough that I have to squint briefly to remember it. It's a big damper. In short, being able to recognize kanji is very helpful.

I do vocab-based kanji study, but I'm sure doing individual kanji study would help eliminate this struggle.

>>118090976Thats why I recommend to learn kanji with 1 or two vocab. Even one may seem overwhelming, but giving attention to vocab and then learning a vocabulary with a reading, helps a ton later on down the line. Individually learning just kanji or just vocab without kanji focus has its merits and its faults. Both to me are time wasters, unless you don't mind going slow.

>>118091147か is basically a question mark, but even japanese us か with ？ so as long as you have one or the other or both its a question.

>MGS>That feel when you like Solid Snake's Japanese VA more than any of his English VAs>Most of the other Japanese VAs are pretty good too (not to say that the English ones are bad)>Can't play MGS in Japanese because it seems too weird to see American agents and their bosses speaking in Japanese.>The later games are censored

Well, it's not like I could follow MGS dialogue in Japanese at this point anyway.

does anyone else do this? i find it kinda hard to enjoy anime while trying to pay attention to two sets of subtitles at top and bottom. im trying to find a good way to have them line up without overlapping or obscuring too much of the screen.

>learning kanji by kyoiku grade order>been on break from active studying for months>look up some kanji while reading>a good amount of them happen to be part of the grade level I'm supposed to be learning

>>118097033I once did a Kanji deck and a Vocab deck side by side; I would never recognize kanji from the Kanji deck in the Vocab deck; but if I saw it in the vocab deck first, I'd recognize it in the kanji deck.

>>118102876>So, Yakuza 5 is coming to PSN in English. How do you feel about that,those of you learning Japanese for Yakuza?I don't really care because 龍が如く0 is coming out in a few months. If it took them three years to translate 5 then they're probably going to skip over 龍が如く 維新 entirely and there might be an English translation for 龍が如く0 in another three years.

The translation quality is just too poor and the wait time is too enormous. Thinking that 5 was never going to be translated gave me the push that I needed back when I started about a year ago, at this point I can almost play the games comfortably. I'm glad that I didn't start learning recently though. If this news came out a year ago then it might have crippled my studies.

Quick question about something. I'm reading Dragon Ball right now and came across this sentence.

>おどろくわよ〜 ビーデルのパパはなんと あの ミスター・サタンなの！

Basically "You won't believe it but Videl's father is non-other than Mister Satan!"

So I get the intent of the sentence, but I don't really know なんと here. The definitions of なんとare "What; how; whatever" (and a couple other things that couldn't possibly be being used here). あの is probably just "that" literally. "That Mister Satan". But what about なんと? Could someone tell me its exact usage here?

>>118105175Not him.While I'm a shameless pirate overall, Tae Kim is probably one of the few people who wrote a book about Japanese who genuinely deserves his money. His guide IS that helpful.Mind you, the Complete Guide and youtube videos aren't, but I think the mere existence of the Grammar Guide does justify that he barely did anything useful afterwards. Kinda like with DJT Guide.Plus, he does offer it for free. I didn't buy this book because I don't want to use Internet deliveries just to get something I already read, but as long as I'm not forced to pay, I'm actually more inclined to buy something, kinda.

Do you guys ever feel like you've conquered grammar, even though you know you're only like N3 level? Like a haughty arrogance, Dekinai whispering in your hear, "oh you've definitely mastered it now, go read Muramasa".

My eyes/head hurt as fuck after 2 hours of 4chan lurking or Japanese reviewing. I need papers.

When I was a kid I could spend like 6 hours in front of the crt with my Master System. I wonder what happened with my endurance. Maybe it were those sessions, that weakened me afterwards. Fucking videogames.

>>118106683If I ever get out of yuropoor status, I'll remember your advice.

>>118106728If you do a lot of raw listening practice... If you could live and work in Japan for one or two years...

For sealf-teaching neets (like myself), if you work a lok everyevryeseriouslyeveryday I calculate 3 years tops. If you are lazy, 5 years. If you drop Anki and Japanese for some months, you start over even after 4 years, like what some anon suffered, who told about it like 50 threads ago.

>>118106897>I read almost every post on DJTYou poor thing.Also, while there are occasional slips of brilliant advice here that make it worth checking it out frequently, they're too rare to literally read every single post. Spending this time on something else is overall more productive... Well, if we're talking about every single post - visiting here a few times a week is probably beneficial.

>>118107037I don't spend all day every day studying. I have a lot of downtime, as a neet, and during that time I have DJT on auto-refresh. It's been like that for about 8 months. It's not like I'm doing DJT as opposed to something else, DJT is just a background thing.

It's actually done wonders. Every time someone asks a question about grammar, I read it, and the answer. That adds up.

>>118107118After I finished Tae Kim and Core2k. Roughly. Core2k *really* helps you distinguish words in a sentence, and Tae Kim really helps you distinguish "grammar" parts of a sentence, so to speak. An important thing though was constantly trying to read sentences, whether they be stuff posted on DJT, Tae Kim's sentences, or just stuff from the wild.

How many times did you practice from Tae Kim to keep it stuck in your head? my writing is pretty much shit, but I'm thinking I'd have to start all over again so that my handwriting is decent. I also need to understand words, phrases, etc..

>>118107249I read his page on "の" about 10 times I think. Other pages, I read once and haven't gone back to. When you read something, and encounter grammar you don't know, that's when you reference back to Tae Kim and freshen up. Let's just say I got confused about の quite often...

Don't worry about your handwriting, it's fine to have ugly handwriting as long as you're recalling the character's radical composition accurately.

>>118107341Oh, yeah, I still think the chapter about の is the hardest in the guide. It's just so confusingly widely used... I think only the chapter on という can somewhat compete.Sure, counters are hard to memorise and keigo has lots of new words which are used only for keigo, but の is the first thing that really is hard to understand on conceptual level. Pretty much the first thing in this guide that is not just a lazy stroll through the language.

>>118107567Oh geez, I'm getting flashbacks to という... yeah, の was especially hard to learn, because it was referred to as the "ownership" particle everywhere. >>118107618What do you think is a good explanation? Tae Kim has held true all this time for me.>>118107646Do you have anki? If you have anki installed, it's a simple matter to create an iron rule to always study. After six months of doing anki literally every day, "quitting" doesn't even cross your mind. It's a part of you.

>>118107341I don't if you will be able to answer that, but... Well...I'm currently going through RTK on turbo pace and already past the halfway point, all without learning vocabulary. The reasons for why I do RTK and not Core are complex and I don't want to discuss them now. Anyway, even if I wanted to drop it, I think it's easier to just finish it already, which is why I'm going turbo.So, a question, would I be able to learn vocabulary purely from reading after I finish it? Or would I need to install Core to be able to read somewhat comfortably after all? I would like to minimise my involvement with Anki as much as possible (RTK notwithstanding, 'cause I'm finishing it), but only as long as reading doesn't feel like torture.

>>118107787http://pastebin.com/dDGCTkSCThis will get you going. If you have any questions after setting it up, ask away.>>118107822You're gonna struggle a lot. In the easier works such as shounen manga, half the words are written in hiragana *specifically* in order to avoid kanji, so your studies won't help there. Furthermore, you won't know any of the readings- for example, you may know 飲む means drink, but you're not gonna know it's read as のむ. The same holds true for jukugo- you may recognize the kanji and have a good idea for the meaning of the word, you're gonna struggle to read it. For example, 飲水. Easy modo. Drinking water. But are you gonna know it's read as "のみみず"?

You will be able to pick up vocabulary much faster; but going straight up reading is not gonna be comfortable unless you do anki vocabulary studies, *I think*. Give it a go for yourself and see how you do before making a long-term decision. Though, IMO, anki is always the right decision, boring though it may be.