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Re: Pulling a player forward

Originally Posted by belhysys

I was looking for this thread exactly

1- blue is above the ball with hands on the ball (legally), and red is pulling toward the red try line. Blue lose his footing and put hands on the floor sealing the ball. Based on the thread I am not sure if

16.3.c - collapsing the ruck? Blue PK10.4.j - force upper body on the floor (are hands upper body?) - Blue PK
Blue is sealing - Red PK
just play on as the sealing is due to the clearing and not blue player. - Nothing

2 : if it is collapsing , what is the difference between clearing and collapsing. (away from the ball ? ) but can not find anything about this in the laws

thanks

hi belshy .
depending on age grade & how safe /unsafe situation has become .
i would look at playing advantage if ball is available . { at lower age grade i wouldnt , unless really safe & we on try line }
otherwise i agree , red collapsing ruck , blue penalty

Re: Pulling a player forward

Not directly dealing with the OP but it comes under the banner of ruck clear outs generally!

RSA V NZ, as compelling as it was to watch, in hindsight I am thinking that this was a game that demonstrated much that could be deemed wrong with the ruck laws.

ruck is effectively collapsed, if it ever formed , and time after time players were diving in headfirst with no attempt even to contact the player other than barge the player off with the shoulder, arms flailing behind.

Was the pace of the game a factor or was Jerome Garces just being a bit lenient after his last experiences with the AB's. There seems to have been much missed with hands in, some attempted neck rolls, and I can't help but think it went beyond what I would deem as being acceptable as far as the laws, silent as they are, allow?

Re: Pulling a player forward

Not directly dealing with the OP but it comes under the banner of ruck clear outs generally!

RSA V NZ, as compelling as it was to watch, in hindsight I am thinking that this was a game that demonstrated much that could be deemed wrong with the ruck laws.

ruck is effectively collapsed, if it ever formed , and time after time players were diving in headfirst with no attempt even to contact the player other than barge the player off with the shoulder, arms flailing behind.

Was the pace of the game a factor or was Jerome Garces just being a bit lenient after his last experiences with the AB's. There seems to have been much missed with hands in, some attempted neck rolls, and I can't help but think it went beyond what I would deem as being acceptable as far as the laws, silent as they are, allow?

I agree with all of your comments

The divebombing into the rucks was laughable and even dangerous as were the twisting of bodies out of the rucks which were as close to neck rolls as you would see.

In my view JG appeared to be a ref without confidence and was more like a possum in the headlights.

The first NZ try was very problematic and I am sure he disagreed with the TMO but didn’t have the confidence to overrule him

I tried to download the new Band-Aid song to support the fundraising to fight Ebola but my anti-virus program wouldn't let me

Re: Pulling a player forward

If player are entering from the correct angles I find it diffucult to see how you can pull someone out of a ruck without pulling them on top of the ruck as you are pulling them from their side to yours over the bodies on the floor. I agree ther may be some legitimate chances but in general It is probable that the action will cause a collapse.