Then again plenty of my fellow fitness nuts do denigrate plump or generally unfit women on a regular basis... so... sigh.

To me it's all just stuff to be tolerated and worked past.

Hi Katie,

That was a narrow-minded and mean-spirited post you ran across. I thought that anime art depiction of a fit female character was actually VERY well done, and I think that the writer is definitely in the minority of public opinion.

That was a narrow-minded and mean-spirited post you ran across. I thought that anime art depiction of a fit female character was actually VERY well done, and I think that the writer is definitely in the minority of public opinion.

As always, best wishes,
- curl

Nah... he's in the majority... I know from personal experience, lol...

I find the women in the last two sets of pics that SexyLitForAll posted truly stunning. Thanks for finding and posting them! I will admit to a strong distaste for the type of musculature that it takes steroid use to produce. On men as well as women. Not only on the grounds of aesthetics (although there is that, to my eyes). But because my own personal reason for doing stuff that's built muscle (CrossFit and weightlifting) is to enhance my health. To be stronger, perhaps the single best factor that will keep me ambulatory and active into my twilight years. Steroid use undermines one's health, not enhances it.

I find the women in the last two sets of pics that SexyLitForAll posted truly stunning. Thanks for finding and posting them! I will admit to a strong distaste for the type of musculature that it takes steroid use to produce. On men as well as women. Not only on the grounds of aesthetics (although there is that, to my eyes). But because my own personal reason for doing stuff that's built muscle (CrossFit and weightlifting) is to enhance my health. To be stronger, perhaps the single best factor that will keep me ambulatory and active into my twilight years. Steroid use undermines one's health, not enhances it.

I will definiely have to agree with the difference between women that have become athletically fit vs those that are blown up as if on steroids. I was at the gym this morning working out with my daughter. She would have chastised me if could have read my mind. There were several very fit women working out that had incredible legs, great calves and perfectly muscled thighs. I kept picturing my head buried between their thighs, with those powerful thighs gripping my head tightly as they ground themselves against my mouth and talented to tongue.

The issue with attempting to differentiate between women who have used steroids vs. those who have not, is that you simply never know.

There are women who have acheived incredibly muscular, bodybuilding type physiques completely naturally and there are a great many female fitness, crossfit, figure competitor, bikini model and track and field athletes, with toned to moderate muscle development who have used significant doses of anabolic steroids.

This goes for men as well.

Everyone has a unique hormonal make-up and what is possible for some naturally is only marginally possible to others with the aid of pharmaceuticals.

Then there are others who will take the short cut even to achieve moderate
muscle enhancement.

The negative health side effects of moderate androgenic/anabolic hormone useage are also hugely overblown. There are many athletes who have used or use anabolic steroids and follow excellent nutritional practices who are far healthier than many "natural" athletes who utilize unhealthy nutritional and training practices.

I guess this is my long winded way of saying, I don't judge a woman (or man for that matter) for which route she chooses or what her goals are, as long as she is knowledgeable about what she is doing.

The issue with attempting to differentiate between women who have used steroids vs. those who have not, is that you simply never know.

There are women who have acheived incredibly muscular, bodybuilding type physiques completely naturally and there are a great many female fitness, crossfit, figure competitor, bikini model and track and field athletes, with toned to moderate muscle development who have used significant doses of anabolic steroids.

This goes for men as well.

Everyone has a unique hormonal make-up and what is possible for some naturally is only marginally possible to others with the aid of pharmaceuticals.

Then there are others who will take the short cut even to achieve moderate
muscle enhancement.

The negative health side effects of moderate androgenic/anabolic hormone useage are also hugely overblown. There are many athletes who have used or use anabolic steroids and follow excellent nutritional practices who are far healthier than many "natural" athletes who utilize unhealthy nutritional and training practices.

I guess this is my long winded way of saying, I don't judge a woman (or man for that matter) for which route she chooses or what her goals are, as long as she is knowledgeable about what she is doing.

Well, we must distinguish between PERFORMANCE enhancement and AESTHETIC enhancement. The usage of steroids in competitions that forbid their use for PE is unequivocally morally wrong. Contrariwise, there is nothing inherently immoral about AESTHETIC usage, or use when the substance is permissible.

Well, we must distinguish between PERFORMANCE enhancement and AESTHETIC enhancement. The usage of steroids in competitions that forbid their use for PE is unequivocally morally wrong. Contrariwise, there is nothing inherently immoral about AESTHETIC usage, or use when the substance is permissible.

The problem is: Women who take steroids look absurd.

I agree that PED usage is wrong in athletic events that prohibit it's usage.

As for your last sentence, like most generalizations, it is only partially true.

You might find women who have obviously used steroids to "look absurd", but there are likely a great many who have used whom you would never suspect have done so and do not look "absurd".

The issue with attempting to differentiate between women who have used steroids vs. those who have not, is that you simply never know.

There are women who have acheived incredibly muscular, bodybuilding type physiques completely naturally and there are a great many female fitness, crossfit, figure competitor, bikini model and track and field athletes, with toned to moderate muscle development who have used significant doses of anabolic steroids.

This goes for men as well.

Everyone has a unique hormonal make-up and what is possible for some naturally is only marginally possible to others with the aid of pharmaceuticals.

Then there are others who will take the short cut even to achieve moderate
muscle enhancement.

The negative health side effects of moderate androgenic/anabolic hormone useage are also hugely overblown. There are many athletes who have used or use anabolic steroids and follow excellent nutritional practices who are far healthier than many "natural" athletes who utilize unhealthy nutritional and training practices.

I guess this is my long winded way of saying, I don't judge a woman (or man for that matter) for which route she chooses or what her goals are, as long as she is knowledgeable about what she is doing.

Tonka, good points; I appreciate your nuanced arguments. In light of them, let me rephrase what I said earlier. My goal is to optimize my health (which, by the way, also does wonders for optimizing my sex life... just sayin'). So I avoid (and, by extension, would like to see others for whom I care also avoid) anything that detracts from optimal health. For example, I have very healthy nutritional practices, I work out hard, I try to keep a lid on stress, I'm serious about getting enough sleep. I choose my indulgences/practices that work at odds with my goal of optimizing my health and being fit/strong very carefully. Taking steroids would fall into that category. Not worth it, in my own personal calculations. My major regular practice that is at odds with my overall approach to optimizing my health is drinking. That's enough.

I can grant that some athletes who take steroids but otherwise have stellar health practices can be healthier than other athletes who don't take steroids but who eat a crappy diet. But I still maintain that if we want to be our healthiest we won't do either. And that I should probably give up my red wine. Sigh! On the other hand, I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the CrossFit games anyway....

I agree that PED usage is wrong in athletic events that prohibit it's usage.

As for your last sentence, like most generalizations, it is only partially true.

You might find women who have obviously used steroids to "look absurd", but there are likely a great many who have used whom you would never suspect have done so and do not look "absurd".

The only ones I would not find disgusting are the sort that have used it to such a limited extent as to not draw attention from athletic performce. These are the minority, as the majority of women who use it do so for the (anti)-aesthetic purpose of looking like bad She Hulk impersonators. Like that "dick girl" on the page before.

Tonka, good points; I appreciate your nuanced arguments. In light of them, let me rephrase what I said earlier. My goal is to optimize my health (which, by the way, also does wonders for optimizing my sex life... just sayin'). So I avoid (and, by extension, would like to see others for whom I care also avoid) anything that detracts from optimal health. For example, I have very healthy nutritional practices, I work out hard, I try to keep a lid on stress, I'm serious about getting enough sleep. I choose my indulgences/practices that work at odds with my goal of optimizing my health and being fit/strong very carefully. Taking steroids would fall into that category. Not worth it, in my own personal calculations. My major regular practice that is at odds with my overall approach to optimizing my health is drinking. That's enough.

I can grant that some athletes who take steroids but otherwise have stellar health practices can be healthier than other athletes who don't take steroids but who eat a crappy diet. But I still maintain that if we want to be our healthiest we won't do either. And that I should probably give up my red wine. Sigh! On the other hand, I don't have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the CrossFit games anyway....

Well said.

I definitely agree that all else being equal, the choice to not use exogenous anabolic/androgenic steroids is part of a healthier lifestyle than choosing to use.