June 15, 2012

GOP state Sen. Van Wanggaard today requested a recount in his 834-vote loss to Dem John Lehman, raising questions about the integrity of last week's results and arguing a second count is needed to help move the state past the "schisms caused by the recalls."...

In his petition, Wanggaard alleges numerous challenges by election observers were not properly documented or acknowledged, individuals were allowed to register and vote without proper proof of residence, individuals voted in more than one location and some were given incentives to vote, among other things.

The Racine County Sheriff's Department is investigating claims that suspicious voter registration documents were found last week in a trash bin outside a polling place.

The other side criticizes Wanggard for trying to delay the power shift to the Democrats, but he defends himself, noting that the voter ID law was not in force, and "so many people [are] suspicious of the election result." Without a recount, "bitterness and division will only grow."

Kramer also questioned the timing of yesterday’s announcement by Racine officials that they are looking into allegations suspicious voter registration documents were found in a trash bin outside a polling place last week. The announcement came one day before the deadline Wanggaard faced to request a recount....

“That just seems too convenient for me,” he said.

Here's a report about the suspicious documents: Somebody found a bag of "various election materials" outside the Cesar Chavez Community Center, which was a polling place in Racine.

ADDED: Let's remember how excited Democrats were when JoAnne Kloppenburg announced that she want a recount in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race last year: "A recount benefits everyone..."

"You'd think the Democrats would be thrilled at the opportunity to get proof of something they believe so strongly: that there is no fraud."

In our lab, when you're being facetious it's considered polite to raise your left hand, so everybody knows you're not sincere. You need to raise your left hand, Althouse. (maybe you are. damn this internet thing.)

I think that all of the Wisconsin Senate Republicans should decamp to Mackinac Island, Michigan until the recount is completed. Let the Wisconsin State Police take the ferry to chase them down on the island.

Bagoh, normally, I'd agree with you, but two things make this different:

First, it's an election that will have no practical significance. The area is redistricted, and new elections are held in November.

Second, the State is so divided now, and this is something the Republicans can do to show the electorate that it is gracious, magnanimous and ready to, wait for it...move on. There is no strategic downside.

Small margins should always be rechecked, but here, even an audit is not likely to change the outcome, and even if the outcome is changed, it will have no practical consequence.

By the way, what is the "20" for? Were there that many Bagohs already registered on Google?!

The Cesar Chavez Community Center? You have got to be kidding me. We have a building here on the farm named after Chavez too, the Cesar Chavez Outhouse. Nothing good could ever come out of a building named after Cesar Chavez.

"Bagoh, normally, I'd agree with you, but two things make this different."

-- If it were just a close election, let's recount things, I'd agree. Apparently, though, there is actual possible fraud/incompetence (really? They didn't listen when observers tried to make a challenge? They did not even acknowledge it? They gave incentives [a.k.a., bribed] voted? Individuals *voted in more than one location* [a.k.a., voter fraud]? If those are true, then it is worth it. Because crimes should be stopped.

Especially since WI is possibly in play. No reason to let a little fraud slip by now.

That newspaper article had a lot less info than the report I heard yesterday. The claim is they were pre-authorized voter registration forms (we have same-day registration in WI). Apparently, the authorization is suppose to be "signed" at the polling place by the election offical on-site when someone presents valid proof of eligibilty (what's accepted as proof in WI is a joke, but that's another story). These forms were already "signed". (I put signed in quotes, because I'm not sure of the exact method that approval is indicated on the form; signature, stamp, paw print, whatever.)

If there really was organized illegal voting going on then you would think that the State Attorney General could pretty easily uncover it given that hundreds of individuals would be involved.

But is not going on because it would be the stupidest crime in the world. For an example, this State Senate election was super close but it would still require over 800 people to be a part of a conspiracy in order to swing the election the other way. On the other hand, if you got caught by law enforcement you would be convicted of a felony. It would be totally irrational to engage in such activity.

"But is not going on because it would be the stupidest crime in the world. For an example, this State Senate election was super close but it would still require over 800 people to be a part of a conspiracy in order to swing the election the other way."

-- Or two people; one stuffing ballots after the fact and a second to make sure that the voters' names being used didn't show up that day.

Heck, once a tainted ballot enters the total pool, you can't take it out, since you don't know who it is. You just have to get them into the mix! One person could do it without even voting, if they were brave and had access, or just found a trunk in their car. Especially since the observers were being ignored.

AA, good point. The best way to defeat a conspiracy theoriest is to expose him/her as a fraud.

Conspiracy theorists are the people that point to multiple investigations showing that voter fraud is virtually non-existent, NOT the people who bark at the moon saying there is widespread voter fraud! No wonder this country is so fucked up.

"Conspiracy theorists are the people that point to multiple investigations showing that voter fraud is virtually non-existent, NOT the people who bark at the moon saying there is widespread voter fraud!"

-- Those studies tend to be flawed. There may not be widespread voter fraud. If you manage to fake about 900 ballots, you can swing a local election. Remember when it was the left crying about sneaky electronic machines?

The biggest reason there needs to be strong safeguards is what I said above. Once a tainted ballot making its way into the general pool, it is impossible to tell the difference. Unlike most crimes, where you can be reactionary, you can't react to voter fraud. You must prevent it before it happens.

Sablan wrote "-- Or two people; one stuffing ballots after the fact and a second to make sure that the voters' names being used didn't show up that day."

That would not be that difficult to uncoverand and it would still be the most stupid crime in the world given that unless you added thousands of votes to the total (i.e., multiple voting locations) then it would be statistically minuscule that you would swing the election. If you got caught engaging in that behavior you would be guaranteed to be sent to prison and have your political career ruined.

"That would not be that difficult to uncoverand it would still be the most stupid crime in the world given that unless you added thousands of votes to the total (i.e., multiple voting locations) then it would be statistically minuscule that you would swing the election. If you got caught engaging in that behavior you would be guaranteed to be sent to prison and have your political career ruined."

-- Good thing you are guaranteed never to be caught because no one ever looks into it. Also, 900 ballots shifts this election. People can walk in and claim to be Eric Holder and get his ballot to vote. You only need to swing a close election a very, very little to matter.

Remember the Franken election? Voting integrity is important, why are you making it harder to get a library card in some areas than to vote?

Also, seeing how well feathered supporters beds are after an election, for relatively low risk, high reward -- there's every reason to commit this crime if you were so inclined. Now, get a bunch of people who believe the opponents want to issue in an era of Jim Crow, deny women basic medical care and murder seniors, and suddenly? Suddenly you have moral, personal and financial motivations.

As a great Grecian tactician once said, "Give them nothing, but take from them everything".

Jay Retread said...

If there really was organized illegal voting going on then you would think that the State Attorney General could pretty easily uncover it given that hundreds of individuals would be involved.

Of course, these people might not have all kinds of help in covering their tracks.

But is not going on because it would be the stupidest crime in the world. For an example, this State Senate election was super close but it would still require over 800 people to be a part of a conspiracy in order to swing the election the other way. On the other hand, if you got caught by law enforcement you would be convicted of a felony. It would be totally irrational to engage in such activity.

Which, of course, is why no one ever does it.

God, why do the village idiots from all the defunct blogs end up here?

Democrats never lose so, of course, you need a recount if they don't have enough votes to win, and Republicans are never supposed to win so they are supposed to just suck it up and accept it when they lose.

Kirk would have just zapped the aliens. And then shagged some hot alien chick in a tinfoil bikini.

Typical ignorant person. If you actually watched TOS(including movies) you'd know that Kirk rarely "shot first, asked questions later" and the actual # of episodes he got some hot alien chick was 25% of the total and none in the movies. In fact if you go watch "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", Kirk is the one arguing for non-hostile actions against the invader.

Typical ignorant person. If you actually watched TOS(including movies) you'd know that Kirk rarely "shot first, asked questions later" and the actual # of episodes he got some hot alien chick was 25% of the total and none in the movies. In fact if you go watch "Star Trek: The Motion Picture", Kirk is the one arguing for non-hostile actions against the invader. = Nerd.

I hate to reinforce Alex's crankiness, but he's pretty much correct here. Kirk hooked up with a pretty small number of women, actually; and if you eliminate those episodes where he feigned interest as part of some plot, the number is even smaller.

His whole reputation stems pretty much from one scene which was very racy by 1968 TV standards: Kirk on his bed putting on his boots while a woman stands nearby brushing her hair. It's strongly implied what happened just before that scene. For 1968 TV, that was explicit. By today's standards, it's a yawner.

1) The 2000 election when buses to be used to take voters to the polls had their tires slit. By Democrats

2) The State rep from Hales Corners who lost an election and then went back to look at all the same-day/prior week registrations and found 1500 (FIFTEEN HUNDRED!!!) addresses than didn't exist were used by people voting

3) The 2004 election when Milwaukee County announced that A) there had been 5000 more votes than registered voters and B) There was nothing to see here.

And4) From last week when a woman in Racine was at the polls and a man three people ahead used HER HUSBAND'S name to vote. She pointed this out to the elections officials who told her they were not required to ask for ID and there was nothing they would do. I heard other stories along the same lines - by an election observer.

this is something the Republicans can do to show the electorate that it is gracious, magnanimous and ready to, wait for it...move on. There is no strategic downside. Said Lucy. "Now kick this damn football, Charlie Brown!"

This is a nonstory about the obvious. Of course such a small margin would impell the loser to ask for a recount. And of course the other side jeers. Politics as usual.

But the justification is laughable. " Without a recount, "bitterness and division will only grow." As if Walker & the repugs didn't do as much as they can already. "Divide and conquer."

Post: "Here's a report about the suspicious documents: Somebody found a bag of "various election materials" outside the Cesar Chavez Community Center, which was a polling place in Racine."

That has about as much reliability as "the boy who lived in the woods." Sooooo convenient. The timing, the Cesar Chavez polling place, the "suspicious" materials. Is no one smart enough to ask, "Who found them?" "Are they cleaned of fingerprints?" "Could the same materials be used by Ds OR Rd?" And the easiest one: "When was the last trash pickup?"

Althouse post a followup? Only if it suits the purpose of firing up the devoted followers. Do you think there'd be a followup on George Zimmerman's hiding $150,000 from the court? Or the fact that all but three of the Wis Dems agreed to Walker's "beer and brats" meeting? Nahhh. That would be too balanced.