"In mid-October 1965, the Beatles entered the recording studio; for the first time in making an album, they had an extended period without other major commitments.Released in December, Rubber Soul has been hailed by critics as a major step forward in the maturity and complexity of the band's music.Their thematic reach was beginning to expand as they embraced deeper aspects of romance and philosophy.Biographers Peter Brown and Steven Gaines attribute the new musical direction to "the Beatles' now habitual use of marijuana", an assertion confirmed by the bandóLennon referred to it as "the pot album", and Starr said, "Grass was really influential in a lot of our changes, especially with the writers. And because they were writing different material, we were playing differently." After Help!'s foray into the world of classical music with flutes and strings, Harrison's introduction of a sitar on "Norwegian Wood (This Bird Has Flown)" marked a further progression outside the traditional boundaries of popular music. As their lyrics grew more artful, fans began to study them for deeper meaning. "

"We Can Work It Out" (also recorded in October 1965) keeps changing tempo and has a waltz in the middle.

So in October '65 they were heading in progesque direction (increased complexity, artful lyrics, expanding themes, sitar, and pot)

Hm, the Beatles may have been proto-prog - but of which Genre? They certainly were not proto-symphonic prog - The reason - I think that Genesis/Yes/ELP were far more influenced by classical music - thus proto-symphonic prog really couldn't happen because the classical music that it's mainly derived from was classical music - thus I think that proto-prog probably led to other genres!

Hm, the Beatles may have been proto-prog - but of which Genre? They certainly were not proto-symphonic prog - The reason - I think that Genesis/Yes/ELP were far more influenced by classical music - thus proto-symphonic prog really couldn't happen because the classical music that it's mainly derived from was classical music - thus I think that proto-prog probably led to other genres!

If we think that way we can't even call Genesis/Yes/ELP "symphonic" given their musical distance from a polyphonic classical musica piece...

^ In ex-Yugoslavia, we were called all of them 'sympho-rock' because of that Mellotron sound. We knew for 'progressive rock' term but it was used rarely for the big four. It was like that untill Discipline - what we could not called 'sympho-rock' at all, lol.

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life

Smartpatrol Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

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i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life

Smartpatrol Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life

Smartpatrol Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound†

Thank you very much for the feedback Sventonio,

I have not seen nor was I aware of any sub forum topic posts in regards to this on this site, however to me as a Latin speaking person who equally studied ancient Greek, this term makes no sense at all. Proto means the beginning, when the change began, this by no means is related to mellotron, novatron etc.
I do believe proto prog might have a bit of jazz and psychedelic influences unlike Italian prog which tends to be more symphonic (orchestration)

When playing strip poker, make sure you are wearing a lot of clothes! or google will ban you ;)

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life

Smartpatrol Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

As Knobby explained to us earlier in this sub-forum, Proto Prog was a term used by British vinyls dealers in their ancient catalogues for the specific sound of late 60s - early 70s rock bands who were created that Hammond organ driven sound; Mellotron was also gratefulness but Hammond organ sound was a general rule. If a music is to containing synths, it's not proto prog. Early Deep Purple is maybe the best example of proto prog sound

(...) this term makes no sense at all. (...)

Of course, because that termdoes not mean anythingby itself. However, the term was used bydealers for reasonsto mark thatsound on their lists. As you know,inthat ancient time, you'rereceiving a mail with a dealer's list andthenyouchooseLP, and orderrng. In theselistswereonly the names of the bands &albums,style, a record company name &price.

I never really thought of the Beatles as doing any 'proto prog', since it did refer to a specific type of style and sound as many have already mentioned, but they certainly used psychedelic rock with many new approaches to recording and sound effects as in orchestration , etc. But then Tomorrow never Knows, Strawberry Fields , and I Am The Walrus could certainly fit into one's definition of proto prog.

i don't see how the Beatles were proto prog, maybe except for A Day in the Life

Smartpatrol Please define proto prog for me? I was under the impression that it meant one of the first and foremost ahead of others in music terms. The Beatles were way beyond anyone else I believe, in terms both rock and experimental music i.e. adding the sitar, French horns etc.

Perfectly said for me, Sonia.

Edited by Horizons - February 26 2014 at 11:17

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