coeyagi:Fart_Machine: coeyagi: Fart_Machine: Turn the volume down from 11 guys. The guy was a nutbag. This is about as stupid as blaming the victims because they didn't have a shoot out in a dark crowded theater filled with tear gas.

And you have no problem with a society turning its head as it allows this nutbag to start a small war in Aurora if he wanted to?

6000 rounds of ammo. The Nazis (yes, Poe in under 10!) tried to conserve bullets, but not in America!

As much as I have disagreements with the NRA this is a case where neither more or less gun laws wouldn't have made a difference since this guy had no criminal record.

Yes, which is why maybe buying 6000 rounds of ammo itself should have raised questions.

Can someone please explain to me why my name goes into a data base when I buy cold medicine, but not when I buy a semi-automatic gun?

o5iiawah:This witch hunt against the NRA speaks to a large issue of the progressive mindset and that is to exonerate the individual from bearing any responsibility for the tragedy.

Columbine was marilyn Manson's fault - not Kliebobld and Harristhe Ft hood shooting was a "workplace stress incident" not a mass murderSusan Smith drowning her kids was a medical issueThe aurora shooting is the NRA's faultThe Giffords shooting was the fault of the Tea party

Maybe it's the fault of our lack of a physical/mental healthcare system. "Oh, you haven't ACTUALLY done any of the horrible things you are obsessing about? Want to buy some guns so you can destroy your invisible enemies?"

Frank N Stein:limeyfellow: Frank N Stein: I'm actually thinking about buying an AR-15 pattern rifle. Any advise on what I should buy? My budget is $1000.

Save up a little more money, like a few hundred and then you start to get into the market where AR-15s fall. I have Rock River Arms version. Lovely rifle. Luckily the price has really dropped from the "OMG Obama is going to take away all the guns the second he is elected, so lets buy at double the price" scare of 2008.

Yeah I've heard some good things about RRA. I'll have to look into it.

I'm trying to figure out if building one would be cost effective. So far I doubt it, so I'll probably just buy the complete baby killing assault rifle with the shoulder thing that goes up and hi cap assault clips ;)

I think all of the lower recievers available are made by maybe 2 or 3 companies who then sell to RRA or Stag or whoever.

I don;t think the lower matters as much as the upper does as far as accuracy goes.

Frank N Stein:gilgigamesh: Frank N Stein: Actually it seems that his baby killing assault rifle was ineffective, plagued with jamming issues. Which is why he switched to his other arms (shotgun, pistol)

But don't let that stop yor crusade, champ

Oh, you were there? Because that is the only way I can think of that you would know what actually happened and what is bullshiat hearsay.

I don't mind if non-nutbags have guns, but it just keeps happening that nutbags get their hands on guns and shoot up a bunch of innocent people. When are we as a society going to start taking the responsibilities of gun ownership seriously?

Given that we will never make all gun ownership illegal there really is no solution to this. The vast majority of gun owners are responsible. Likewise homicidal nutbags will still exist in society. We put mechanisms in place but there will always be those who slip through the cracks.

Yes, who will stand up for the poor defenseless NRA when they are targeted like this?

Won't someone please think of the victims in the pro-gun lobby? They are only the most ruthlessly effective lobbying industry the world has ever seen. What will ever become of them?

The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

gilgigamesh:Frank N Stein: gilgigamesh: Frank N Stein: Actually it seems that his baby killing assault rifle was ineffective, plagued with jamming issues. Which is why he switched to his other arms (shotgun, pistol)

But don't let that stop yor crusade, champ

Oh, you were there? Because that is the only way I can think of that you would know what actually happened and what is bullshiat hearsay.

Google search "James Holmes gun jam"

Google "hearsay".

Whatever, don't listen to what the cops say. Not my problem if you want to remain ignorant.

Frank N Stein:The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

If that is true, then why is the NRA supporting the candidate with the worst record on gun rights in the presidential race?

Linux_Yes:America is a victim of unbridled Capitalism. you've seen the benefits of measured capitalism (with government setting and enforcing some ground rules that everyone plays by) over the years, wait until you see the dark side of unbridled capitalism. its gonn'a be a gas, man!

If don't know what you're smoking but I would hardly call American unbridled capitalism. Capitalism also works on the labor side as well as jobs get paid what they're worth on the open market, not the rates that the government or a union sets. Because the government (and unions) set the wages, and American companies have to compete on a global scale, jobs are shipped to a labor market where they can compete.

o5iiawah:This witch hunt against the NRA speaks to a large issue of the progressive mindset and that is to exonerate the individual from bearing any responsibility for the tragedy.

Columbine was marilyn Manson's fault - not Kliebobld and Harristhe Ft hood shooting was a "workplace stress incident" not a mass murderSusan Smith drowning her kids was a medical issueThe aurora shooting is the NRA's faultThe Giffords shooting was the fault of the Tea party

Fast and Furious put sentient weapons of death into the hands of pacifist drug cartel members.

fracto73:Frank N Stein: The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

If that is true, then why is the NRA supporting the candidate with the worst record on gun rights in the presidential race?

Because the opposition of a Black Democrat speaks to their narrative of oppressed majorities?

fracto73:Frank N Stein: The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

If that is true, then why is the NRA supporting the candidate with the worst record on gun rights in the presidential race?

Frank N Stein:The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

Look, you guys won. I don't know why you feel the need to continually shiat your pants in fear over nonexistent gun-grabbing. But if writing checks to the NRA is what it takes to keep your knickers dry, by all means be my guest.

slayer199:Linux_Yes: America is a victim of unbridled Capitalism. you've seen the benefits of measured capitalism (with government setting and enforcing some ground rules that everyone plays by) over the years, wait until you see the dark side of unbridled capitalism. its gonn'a be a gas, man!

If don't know what you're smoking but I would hardly call American unbridled capitalism. Capitalism also works on the labor side as well as jobs get paid what they're worth on the open market, not the rates that the government or a union sets. Because the government (and unions) set the wages, and American companies have to compete on a global scale, jobs are shipped to a labor market where they can compete.

yea, and i suppose my Legislators do what is in my best interests, right? they would never lower themselves to be bought and paid for by big business/rich lobbyist in D.C. , right?

and i suppose that is Democracy too.

and i guess the ever widening wealth gap between the rich and the middle class is just all illusion, right?

smoke one for me too, pal. one day, you'll look back and say THESE were the good ole' days..........

Each one of those just points to the site's main page. And all I see is robbery, robbery, robbery, self-defense, robbery...

The question wasn't about self-defense - it was about mass shootings.

Though it's hard to tell if a shooting would have been a "mass" shooting when it was stopped.

It's easy to tell - did the guy have a large supply of ammunition and/or multiple firearms? Then yeah, it was probably going to be a mass shooting. Hell, just a pistol and a pocket full of clips would suffice. Some guy robbing a store with a pistol (and no additional ammo) isn't planning a shooting spree.

Still waiting to see an example of a random CC person stopping a mass shooting. That was a driving force behind concealed carry in Texas - after the Luby's shootings in the 1990s. And we still haven't seen it happen.

Frank N Stein:The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

The NRA gets its money by scaring members into believing half-truths and selective quotes. F*ck the NRA.

Frank N Stein:The most effective way to bring down gun deaths is to end the drug war. No need to enact restrictive gun control. Ending the drug war is the key.

I get a kick out of the people who are all "ZOMG we need to ban assault weapons and handguns", and then they turn around and mention how they support drug legalization because prohibition doesn't work.

Frank N Stein:fracto73: Frank N Stein: The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

If that is true, then why is the NRA supporting the candidate with the worst record on gun rights in the presidential race?

Because they're flat out wrong on this issue. I will admit that.

I'm not a member of the NRA, btw.

To me this is evidence that they are no longer in the business of protecting gun rights. It seems more logical, from their actions, that they want to promote fear in order to maintain the current high profit margins of gun/ammo.

gilgigamesh:it cons its members into thinking 0bummer is coming to take their guns away, which he is obviously planning when you look at his tactic of not doing anything to take guns away.

There's really no argument against that. He's claimed he wants to re-instate the assault weapons ban but he hasn't done anything. Wait and see what he'll do after this shooting, it will be nothing. He's figured out like the rest of the Dems with brains, that gun control is a political loser.

keithgabryelski:Frank N Stein: The most effective way to bring down gun deaths is to end the drug war. No need to enact restrictive gun control. Ending the drug war is the key.

or restrict all guns.

It seems that bans on automatic weapons have helped the reduction in crime with automatic weapons.

that bans on assault weapons (for that decade) brought down crimes with assault weapons.

Maybe... just maybe... we should ban all firearms.

There's not a ban on all automatic weapons, just a ban on imported or domestically produced automatic weapons since 68 and 86. The only crime committed with a legally owned automatic weapon was committed by a cop in ohio. However other crimes have been committed with illegally owned automatic weapons.

All crime dropped precipitously for 3 years before the banned was even signed into law. The AWB had no effect on crime rates.

gilgigamesh:Tyrano Soros: As a liberal, I can safely say that if assualt rifles were banned, James Holmes would just have stocked up on shotguns and pistols, with the same deadly outcome.

Rank speculation. You can't possibly know what would have happened in your little "what if" scenario.

All we can say is what did happen: under current laws, this guy was allowed to purchase enough firepower and armor to enable him murder and maim dozens of people within 2 minutes, and probably a lot more had he chosen to do so.

Speculating about what he could have done with bombs or shotguns or rocks or whatever is less than useless. In fact it is a cheap attempt at deflection from what actually happened.

And how would that have changed if only allowed to buy shotguns and pistols?

Save up a little more money, like a few hundred and then you start to get into the market where AR-15s fall. I have Rock River Arms version. Lovely rifle. Luckily the price has really dropped from the "OMG Obama is going to take away all the guns the second he is elected, so lets buy at double the price" scare of 2008.

Yeah I've heard some good things about RRA. I'll have to look into it.

I'm trying to figure out if building one would be cost effective. So far I doubt it, so I'll probably just buy the complete baby killing assault rifle with the shoulder thing that goes up and hi cap assault clips ;)

I think all of the lower recievers available are made by maybe 2 or 3 companies who then sell to RRA or Stag or whoever.

I don;t think the lower matters as much as the upper does as far as accuracy goes.

Maybe get a cheap lower and a real good upper.

This and the part where an assembled firearm gets tagged with 11% FET. Buy the lower and upper separately and spend the extra Franklin on ammo.

paygun:gilgigamesh: it cons its members into thinking 0bummer is coming to take their guns away, which he is obviously planning when you look at his tactic of not doing anything to take guns away.

There's really no argument against that. He's claimed he wants to re-instate the assault weapons ban but he hasn't done anything. Wait and see what he'll do after this shooting, it will be nothing. He's figured out like the rest of the Dems with brains, that gun control is a political loser.

I would like hot women to pay me to give me blow jobs. Since that isn't going to happen, there isn't much point in wasting breath about it.

rufus-t-firefly:s1ugg0: rufus-t-firefly: bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

bujin: Can anyone point to a single time in which some gun-toting civilian actually stopped a mass shooting?

That's easy. There was example just a few days ago.

There is even video

Robbery is not the same as a mass shooting.

Oh and then there is this but I stopped at two because I'm only going to spend 30 seconds googling for you because your lazy.

She was at the church as a security guard. She wasn't just some random citizen packing heat.

the_foo:

Yes

Yes

Yes

Each one of those just points to the site's main page. And all I see is robbery, robbery, robbery, self-defense, robbery...

The question wasn't about self-defense - it was about mass shootings.

Though it's hard to tell if a shooting would have been a "mass" shooting when it was stopped.

It's easy to tell - did the guy have a large supply of ammunition and/or multiple firearms? Then yeah, it was probably going to be a mass shooting. Hell, just a pistol and a pocket full of clips would suffice. Some guy robbing a store with a pistol (and no additional ammo) isn't planning a shooting spree.

Still waiting to see an example of a random CC person stopping a mass shooting. That was a driving force behind concealed carry in Texas - after the Luby's shootings in the 1990s. And we still haven't seen it happen.

On Wednesday, October 16, 1991, Hupp and her parents were having lunch at the Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen. She had left her gun in her car to comply with Texas state law at the time, which prohibited carrying a concealed weapon.

Frank N Stein:The NRA gets it money from members so they can protect the members from restrictive gun legislation. The NRA is one of the largest lobbies in the country because so many fellow countrymen want to protect their gun rights. Sorry that youre on the fringe minority

any numbers I can see show the numbers to be 1 in 4 people in the united states own a gun

1 in 4 is a minority -- your "fringe minority" comment is not correct.

I think high-capacity magazines should be banned, as they are in California. It wouldn't stop your everyday street crime homicides, but it would significantly impact the ability to wage these kinds of mass-casualty shootings like Aurora, Tucson and V Tech. The ability of one total amateur to walk into a room and shoot 70 farking people is not what they had in mind when they wrote the 2nd Amendment. Nor did they picture the entire farking population walking around with guns on their persons like living in a war zone. Aurora, Tucson, V Tech, Columbine -- they were all carried out by total dweebs -- not gun nuts with inside connections who could possibly get this gear even if it was illegal. These guys were amateur crazy f*cks, but it was incredibly easy for them to get a hold of these weapons and incredibly easy for them to kill a ton of people with zero formal gun training. To the rest of the world, this is total madness, but our culture has conditioned us to accept it.

And to people who say the Aurora punk knew how to make bombs and could just do that if he couldn't get guns -- well then why didn't he? Weird that he chose guns first over bombs. Weird that the Tucson shooter picked his higher-capacity clip first when he started shooting in that shopping center parking lot.

As a gun enthusiast myself who keeps several for home protection, the gun nut retards who fantasize about overtaking the government with their hillbilly arsenals need to STFU before they ruin it for the rest of us.

Let's put it all on the table, Mr. Moyers, and add censorship into the discussion as well. This nutcase was mimicking the latest incarnation of Heath Ledger's "Joker," a gun-shootin' and bomb-planting sociopath, was he not? If Hollywood were censored from making such violent movies then the content for wackos like this guy wouldn't be there to mimic, would it? Couple that with a ban on guns and this nation would be the least violent in the history of the civilized world.

Fart_Machine:Turn the volume down from 11 guys. The guy was a nutbag. This is about as stupid as blaming the victims because they didn't have a shoot out in a dark crowded theater filled with tear gas.

Funny no one is talking about the chemicals he got from his school. Certain acids and combustibles make the "hypergolic" compounds that were found. Forget the guns, if he had brought those to the theater, there would be a lot more deaths due to fire and toxic fumes. Oh and lots not forget his drug use either. No one wants to talk about his mindset and how he got there.

The_Sponge:Frank N Stein: The most effective way to bring down gun deaths is to end the drug war. No need to enact restrictive gun control. Ending the drug war is the key.

I get a kick out of the people who are all "ZOMG we need to ban assault weapons and handguns", and then they turn around and mention how they support drug legalization because prohibition doesn't work.

How about people who just want common sense regulations? This guy bought his guns legally, but the fact that he bought a lot of guns and ammo in a short period of time didn't raise any red flags at all.

If people are fine with an occasional massacre as long as they can buy a gun without too much hassle, they should just say so.

How many murders are considered a fair price to pay so that I can go buy a shotgun, a couple of rifles and a few hundred rounds on my lunch break?

o5iiawah:This witch hunt against the NRA speaks to a large issue of the progressive mindset and that is to exonerate the individual from bearing any responsibility for the tragedy.

Columbine was marilyn Manson's fault - not Kliebobld and Harristhe Ft hood shooting was a "workplace stress incident" not a mass murderSusan Smith drowning her kids was a medical issueThe aurora shooting is the NRA's faultThe Giffords shooting was the fault of the Tea party

Tyrano Soros:And how would that have changed if only allowed to buy shotguns and pistols?

I never said he should. In fact I don't believe he should.

I don't claim to have any answers. I am not even necessarily in favor of gun control. I am only here to point out that any time something like this happens, like clockwork the NRA and its minions march forth to every corner of the media to shut down any and all debate on the topic, claiming "now is not the time to have this discussion".