I have recognized that you often used a fill (how should I explain this?)with two hits on the snare (or toms/electronic percussion). A few examples are "A friend I call desire", the outro of "Dancing with tears in my eyes", the drumsolo in "The voice" and in "Hymn". My question is: Have you noticed that you have influenced other drummers? I know a couple of songs where they have copied that fill. One example is the outro of China chrisis song "Black man Ray" and more recently Scissor´s sister´s hit in Sweden (and England I suppose) "Tits on the radio".

You know, it's funny...but my husband and I have had a few conversations about this. (By the way, unless we're talking about two different things entirely, I've counted the hits in these "fills" as four, on any of the specific types of drum you mention.) I'm sure the same happens with later albums as well, but don't think it was quite as prevalent in the Foxx years. Could be wrong though.

But let's not over-simplify Warren's drumming style, shall we? Every musician has their "quirks" (ha ha ha), their own trademarks. For example, Midge's growling guitar noises which seem to appear in a lot of Ultravox' songs.

OK, I know what you're talking about now...The alternating pause-beat-pause-beat/three hit thing. Yes I did notice that in songs like "Dancing With Tears In My Eyes" and "The Voice," and I'm sure it's in others too...but I'm also talking about the the three or four beats in quick succession thing too, which is in just about everything.

His drumming style may be simple, but let´s not forget that Warren often had to follow Chris´ bass-synth. If you listen to the live version of "Mine for life" (Monument the soundtrack)where Chris plays bassguitar, Warren plays a lot more loose.

And what do you think of the Chris Cross-special: Sliding fast up on the strings and then return to the original note. You can hear it in a couple of songs: "Man of two worlds", "Time to kill" etc. (It´s hard to explain in a foreign language, when you´re not so good at musical expressions...)

Originally posted by dreambear:His drumming style may be simple, but let´s not forget that Warren often had to follow Chris´ bass-synth. If you listen to the live version of "Mine for life" (Monument the soundtrack)where Chris plays bassguitar, Warren plays a lot more loose.

And what do you think of the Chris Cross-special: Sliding fast up on the strings and then return to the original note. You can hear it in a couple of songs: "Man of two worlds", "Time to kill" etc. (It´s hard to explain in a foreign language, when you´re not so good at musical expressions...)

Regards!Björn

I wouldn't know given those examples. I hardly ever listen to Lament, and I wouldn't touch "the pink thing" (U-Vox) with a 30 foot pole. The example that comes to my mind when you talk about that is "Dangerous Rhythm," which I think exhibits some of Chris' finest bass work.

But what about the other "Warren special": Hitting the hi-hat in som kind of backbeat. In ska-music" or in a fast reggae you´ll find the guitar doing this beat. Examples: "Passing strangers" and "Mine for life" (verses).

I also thinks that the "Big pink" is not as good as the other four Urevox albums, but I prefer it to the most of Midges solo albums. And Chris Cross´ bassguitar-playing is the best since the very first album (as you said, Mrs X.)

Nice keyboards from Mr Currie on the extended version of "Same old story".

Originally posted by dreambear:But what about the other "Warren special": Hitting the hi-hat in som kind of backbeat. In ska-music" or in a fast reggae you´ll find the guitar doing this beat. Examples: "Passing strangers" and "Mine for life" (verses).

I never really considered that anything spectacular. Just a steady rhythm. That's what drummers do!

Quote:

I also thinks that the "Big pink" is not as good as the other four Urevox albums, but I prefer it to the most of Midges solo albums. And Chris Cross´ bassguitar-playing is the best since the very first album (as you said, Mrs X.)

If you mean the very, very first Ultravox! album (the self-titled one, with John Foxx), then yes, I agree.

Quote:

Nice keyboards from Mr Currie on the extended version of "Same old story".

I'd agree with Mrs.X that Warren's use of hi-hat on off beats is nothing spectacular, and certainly not unique. It is quite a nice effect though, and gives the verses of the 2 songs you mentioned a bit of "bounce". It's something I do a lot in my playing actually, especially when playing ska, where the accent on the off beat is crucial.

Originally posted by Fluff:I'd agree with Mrs.X that Warren's use of hi-hat on off beats is nothing spectacular, and certainly not unique. It is quite a nice effect though, and gives the verses of the 2 songs you mentioned a bit of "bounce". It's something I do a lot in my playing actually, especially when playing ska, where the accent on the off beat is crucial.

Well, it's good to know I wasn't talking out of my arse! Anyway, you should know, I suspect.

"In my opinion Warren's Hi-Hat work is very good. Driving rhythm in "Hymn" and "Mine for Life"."

Hi Nils!I suspect that the "hi-hat" on "Hymn" is programmed (Like "Reap the wild wind") or overdubbed.If you listen carefully at the end of the song, you can hear Warren do fills at the same time, which sounds impossible.

Mrs X: OK! I´ll give up! There´s nothing spectacular with the backbeat...but it sounds good ;-). Warren plays very nice in a song that doesn´t get that much attention: "Maximum acceleration". What do you think?

says the person , who did a really nice cover version of THAT song !!! [/b]

Oh, the song's OK. I like it. I don't listen to the album hardly at all though. Doing the song seemed like a good idea at the time, and it worked, didn't it? (Well, OK, I didn't win, but an honourable mention is good enough!)

Dreambear: About "Maximum Acceleration"... I need to listen to it again. I'll get back to you on that.

I know exactly the Warren style people refer to; although am not musical myself. Think his almost minimal style would have originally evolved when he was listening to Neu! and Cluster and some of those other Kraut Rock bands (Faust now springs to mind too).

RTWW. I think the confusion of hi-hat useage could be the result of Warren playing the actual instrument live, plus additional use of a drum machine with a hi-hat style sound. For a comparision of how this can work well, check out Duran Durans 'I don't want your love' single - a 16/4 time signature hi-hat effect backing plays behind Steve Ferrone's open live hi-hat quaver and semi quaver beats.

I totally agree! The most important thing is how it sounds, not how difficult it is to play. I think it would be horrible to hear Ginger Baker or Lars Ulrich to replace Ringo Starr on the old Beatles recordings, if it was possible.

Read the notes from everyone here,some good points,Warren is a first class musician as are all the other component members of Ultravox,however,I reckon that Warren would give plenty other drummers a good run for their money,such is his versatility,but he wasn't just a drummer,Warren also plays guitar and synths.

Originally posted by Dex:Read the notes from everyone here,some good points,Warren is a first class musician as are all the other component members of Ultravox,however,I reckon that Warren would give plenty other drummers a good run for their money,such is his versatility,but he wasn't just a drummer,Warren also plays guitar and synths.

Originally posted by Dex:Read the notes from everyone here,some good points,Warren is a first class musician as are all the other component members of Ultravox,however,I reckon that Warren would give plenty other drummers a good run for their money,such is his versatility,but he wasn't just a drummer,Warren also plays guitar and synths.

A good point Dex - sometimes, a common view is that drummers are not musicians. Even without the other elements of being able to play guitar, synths and provide vocals, Warren was a fine musician that provided an integral part of the bands sound.

Originally posted by dreambear:Warren also had a very cool "speaking voice" (Mr X, We came to dance and Paths and angels, I think).

Regards Björn

That's the understatement of the century!!

I actually prefer "Herr X" to "Mr. X" for the opposite reason why German songs translated into English get lost in translation. I remember first hearing the English version of "99 Luftballons" and finding out how inane the lyrics were. Now I'm certainly not saying anything against "Mr. X" or Warren's songwriting skills. However, the lyrics are just...there... They certainly sound good, but for some reason I always thought "Herr X" sounded better. I think it gains something in translation to German! And my German speaking skills are crap!

Originally posted by dreambear:Mrs X: Oh yeah! *lol" I forgot that one ("People live here"). By the way, do you know what they say in "Break you back" in a distorted way....it sounds like "boltjewa"???

best wishes!

Björn

"People live here" is the only line I can seem to make out of all his vocals in that song, except possibly something to the effect of, "Oh, not this again," or something. Er... other than that, I know there's the sampled "break your back," but as for anything else, I'd have to subject myself...er...I mean, listen to it. I'll wait 'til my headache's gone. I don't want a migraine!

Did Warren also sing/narrate Paths and Angles too?I'm sure he did. Also if anyone had a copy of the old Atari ST magazine "ST User" Warren did a feature in one issue circa late 80's. Warren was then what Dave Grohl is today.However having said that, I won't compare them in any way other than they are multi-instrumentalists. I admired Warren,Stewart Copeland,Carl Palmer,Cozy Powell.I have heard that the chap who filled in for Warren during the U-Vox tour ( Not Mark Brzezicki ),couldn't touch Warren's style/method etc,and was hopeless.Ohh well,just shows you how much Warren could thrash anyone in that department.

The U-Vox tour drummer was a chap called Pat Ahern. I don't think it was a matter of him not being able to replicate Warrens style, but with him being nothing more than a hired hand for the three remaining members he would have played in the style the band wanted him to play (which was much more the Mark UnprounounciblenameofBigCountry' U-Vox' album style rather than Warrens). Much of the older material was reworked also, so the fact the drums style didn't sound like Warren is not that much of a surprise. Instead of it being Pat Aherns fault, perhaps that fact is more a responsibility that lies with Billy, Chris and Midge.

Like any band, I think it does prove though that if you take out one of the integral elements or members it can and never will be the same. Sometimes it can be different but prove as good and/or intersting, other times not so. Even with U-Vox, people have different views on which side the album and tour comes down on...

Originally posted by Oesterreicher II:[b]I seem to remember that " [b]How do you drive this thing? " features in the lyrics to Break Your Back , c/o the smooth-voiced Mr. Cann.[/b]

OK, I'm just finishing listening to it. It's actually, "What do you have to do to drive this thing?" I think. I've figured out nothing else besides the aforementioned "People live here."

Ohhhhhhhh...my head...

Mrs. X[/b]

You're quite right! Long time since I've listened to it, living out of boxes as I do and not having my gramophone set up (it's in another box in an attic far, far away, but that's another story). It sounds like a challenge, though: work out all the words to Break Your Back whilst sober . . . Daunting.

Originally posted by Oesterreicher II:You're quite right! Long time since I've listened to it, living out of boxes as I do and not having my gramophone set up (it's in another box in an attic far, far away, but that's another story). It sounds like a challenge, though: work out all the words to [b]Break Your Back whilst sober . . . Daunting.[/b]

One of the best drum-things Warren ever did was in the instrumental part of "When the scream subsides" (Before Billy´s solo). It´s a kind of break with two hits on the hi-hat. Nothing difficult but sounds really good.

I had fun coming up with the "lyrics" for Break Your back.I just walked up to the mic and started quoting bits of dialogue from a film called The Loveless. That may assist anyone trying to decipher what I'm saying!

In my humble opinion, I think the main two things that make Warren's playing great are probably the two most important things a drummer can have:

1 - TIMING. The ability to play along with sequenced rhythms obviously requires a very keen sense of timing, but his purely live / acoustic drumming wavers far less than most. That steady groove is so important. I reckon the nature of many of Warren's fills stem from this consistent pulse, also having a similar sort of relentless motion to them. Maybe his middle name should be Roland................

2 - PERSONALITY. A trait so rare nowadays, but like Ringo Starr, Charlie Watts and Keith Moon, you can tell who's playing within four bars. It's a pretty exclusive club for drummers, but there it is. We noticed the difference in '86, didn't we? No coincidence. (In fairness, I think there are more good things on that album than it's given credit for sometimes, but it wasn't nearly the same, though, was it?) AS well as the inevitable contribution to the writing and pre-production processes, the personality of the rhythms was a huge part of the sound of Ultravox. That snare sound, the interplay between the snare and the hi-hat, the tone and dynamic of the bass drum on the live stuff (to me it sounds like it all stems from that right foot, in a way) and the use of those "rata-tata" fills to punctuate just the right moments in the song all combine to create a stylistic persona that transcends mere timekeeping and showcases the drums as a musical instrument.

To me, the biggest and best thing about those fills is how they work in an orchestrated sense, ie they provide effective counterpoint to other things in each song, creating more than just a drum lick, but an overall musical phrase. Can I copyright the phrase "melodic drumming"?

I have to say that at the Hammersmith gig on Friday evening, it really came home to me just how important Warren is to the band. He really provides the impetus on stage. Certainly a drummer who deserves a darn sight more recognition. He's top class.

Warren was deffo playing to a backing track on some tracks on the RTE tour, as the hi-hat on some tracks was playing 16ths and he was only playing it on the 8th, but thats to be expected..it still sounds fab, and we know they are not 'miming' due to the Mac crash at Hammersmith, and I noticed a few slight bum notes at Brighton.However, this is what we want, and they are better than ever!!

I think I've still got some photocopies of Warren's drumming tutorials that he did for "Electronics & Music Maker" magazine in the early 80s which explain his technique. The drum notation/patterns are also included so you can see exactly what he's doing.

I think I've still got some photocopies of Warren's drumming tutorials that he did for "Electronics & Music Maker" magazine in the early 80s which explain his technique. The drum notation/patterns are also included so you can see exactly what he's doing.

I'd like to see those - I only ever had one of them at the time. I'm also hunting out the sheet music for Hymn that that, or a similar, magazine printed.

I'm also hunting out the sheet music for Hymn that that, or a similar, magazine printed.

Think I've still got that (maybe even the mag itself) so will try to dig it out and scan it. As for the drum patterns, I used to program them into my Kay Memory Rhythm drum machine, and use them in my own songs in the mid-80s!