Sorry... I'm a bit jaded against this movement, having come out of its indoctrination.

More related to the article... this form of calvinism is the outworking of the pursuit of certainty rather than truth w/ love. I struggle with this. But I work w/ more non-cals than cals... so God is teaching me this. Good article.

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Sorry... I'm a bit jaded against this movement, having come out of its indoctrination.

More related to the article... this form of calvinism is the outworking of the pursuit of certainty rather than truth w/ love. I struggle with this. But I work w/ more non-cals than cals... so God is teaching me this. Good article.

From my observations Tim, I happen to agree with allot of what ole Roger is saying & as the old saying goes, if it walks like a duck & quacks like a duck.....you get the drift. I have always believed that the classic "Fundamentalism " can be earmarked by the creation of a system of words, bible quotes & techniques for salvation that are supposedly certain, so you always know the ground on which you stand and keep God on your side. It has become very popular today in this country as evidenced by some of his observations & examples. Therefore we have to be very careful how we present ourselves.

First, it is true that a person can be messed up theologically and still be a true child of God. Who of us, has not been theologially messed up at one time or another and changed our minds on various issues. However, how does one determine then that a person should be recognized as a Christian if he is holding a messed up soteriology? My personal test is to simply ask him for his salvation testimony. Regardless if a person is a Calvinist or Arminian or whether they are Catholic or Baptist, if they are a true Christian their salvation testimony will always be characterized by certain immutable truths. (1) A changed difference in the Person and their life after conversion; (2) Credit always given to Christ for their salvation rather than to themselves or to what they did. (3) the elements of the gospel will be professed.

Second, there has to be lines drawn at some point by congregations to determine whom they will and will not publicly fellowship with. If not, then passages like 2 Thessalonians 3:6; Romans 16:17 and 1 Tim. 4:1 are frivilous and without meaning. Just as their are absolute essentials which must be embraced to be recognized as a true Christian, there must be bare absolute essentials embraced to be recognized as a true church of Christ. Regardless if others like it or not lines must be drawn that separate you from others with opposing theological views in order to (1) Expose what you believe to be harmful errors; (2) protect the sheep from error; (3) obey God's Word to separate yourselves from such a "brother." If not, then simply toss church discipline out the window as well. Church fellowship does not deny their salvation but only denies their influence is beneficial to your members.

True, when lines are drawn some are placed outside the line while others are placed inside the line. Therefore, we should find clear and explicit scriptures that guide us and compell us to draw lines where they ought to be drawn.

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