We've talked about Okafor before, but I think it's worth revisiting exactly what he does.

At 6'5", 265, Okafor is a little bigger than most LEO candidates we've talked about on the boards. That said, most 265 pound DEs do not rely on the edge rush as much as Okafor does. I doubt Okafor will run an Irvin like forty time, but he could probably hold serve with Chris Clemons, who posted a 4.68 second forty at the 2003 combine. The LEO does not require blistering speed, it merely requires the ability to attack the edge and benefit from a wide nine role.

Raheem Brock had a very productive 2010 season from a 9-tech role. He weighed 274 pounds and clocked a 4.93 forty time.

When I watch Okafor, he does looks solid as a traditional 5-technique (shades over the tackle's outside shoulder), but looks more capable when lining wider out. Like Clemons, he will not outrun a tackle to the edge, but uses a combination of speed and arm use to work his way around before running past the QB. Clemons is the master of the drive by strip sack, and you'll see that's something Okafor does too.

Like Clemons, Okafor has long arms and uses them to work his way inside. He's not quite as agile or as gifted with technique as Clemons is, but he's close enough that a good coaching job by Quinn or Carroll could close the gap. There is a naturalness, a smoothness to Clemons' play that I also see with Okafor.

Seattle will have to figure out exactly which parts of the pass rush they will address first. If they feel LEO could be a round 1 priority, Okafor could be a strong consideration. Most big name mock drafters have Okafor coming off the board in the late teens to late 20s, right where Seattle is at. This could be a player to keep an eye on. And if Carroll/Quinn think Okafor can be Clemons 2.0, I'd be all for it.

Last edited by kearly on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

ErikG803 wrote:Assuming we can't get ahold of Sheldon Richardson, I think my preference is Okafor.

But I really want Hopkins too

So far, this draft looks like it's going to be a painful pick in round 1 (lots of good options) followed by a whole bunch of "who?!" picks the whole rest of the way. Or basically, our 2011 draft with a better first pick.

Speed is going to be the big thing with Okafor. The 10-yard split is going to define his stock IMO. He had some good games and some mediocre games last year. Abused the Oregon State right tackle in the Alamo Bowl. But the one concern I have is his ability as a speed rush off the edge at that size. He doesn't play fast. He makes up for it with good hand use for his size, he's better against the run than you'd expect. But I need to see a good 10-yard split at 260lbs to believe he'll fit in SEA.

Meh, I dont like him at all really. Not saying I wouldn't take him, his physical traits are too inticing, but I'd only approve him as a LATE 2nd or 3rd. And, preferrably a 3rd, where the Hawks traded down to nab an extra pick type 3rd.

He just looks typical Texas; talented with all the tools but little desire.

I should reiterate, Chris Clemons is not an athletic freak. Raheem Brock ran a forty time that was just barely faster than what Dontari Poe had. Bruce Irvin IS fast, but still appears incapable of being a true LEO due to other shortcomings.

Sadly, there just isn't an "ideal" LEO in this draft that will reach our pick. Even Clemons isn't truly one. I don't think Okafor is going to be a super star, but I think he could give us maybe 75%-90% of what Clemons does. If you watch him closely, you'll see that Texas kept alternating him from a 5-tech role to a 9-tech role during games. As a 5-tech he's just okay, but as a 9-tech he improves dramatically and is constantly creating pressure.

I kind of hope Seattle goes TE/WR at #25 because that's where I think the value is, but if they draft DL there instead (assuming Red Bryant isn't going anywhere), I think Okafor could work out very nicely as a pure LEO.

My preference would be to sign Cliff Avril in FA, but if Seattle ends up having to address the D-line in the draft early, and a colossal trade up is off the table (likely), I think Okafor is one of the best realistic options at #25. I would much rather take a poor man's Chris Clemons over a Jason Jones clone (Ansah as a 3-tech), or an Alan Branch type (Kawann Short, Sharrif Floyd). Seattle can survive another season of Branch + Jones if it came to that. But they can't survive a season that banks on Irvin playing the LEO or Clemons playing the LEO at half capacity. LEO has to be a huge consideration. I think guys like Okafor and Simon are worth long looks as LEO candidates. Though Simon is the better pass rusher, I would prefer Okafor just because he does not come with any exploitable features like Simon does.

I think the reason Seattle wouldn't take Okafor in round 1 is because he doesn't have the potential to be a superstar. He is VERY safe. I'm gathering from the Irvin and Carpenter picks, the Seahawks are so confident in their ability draft in later rounds, they'll swing for the fences in round 1.

Gruden said the day Carpenter was drafted the Seahawks we're the only team to practice him at guard. Even though he played RT his first year, he's a guard in their mind. His ceiling at guard is pretty high (in the run game particularly). Irvin is another swing for the moon type. Very raw, with amazing speed and physical tools. If Irvin soaks up the coaching, he's can easily become their Aldon or JPP.

So, with that, if they go DL, it'll be Ziggy IMO. I understand why people would assume Hunt qualifies, but IMO, he doesn't possess a passion for playing like other Hawks.

kearly, I am confused. 3 or 4 days ago you posted something the EXACT opposite of this...?

"No pass rusher in round one please*, not unless Werner/Jones is there or Simon's stock skyrockets.

I like Ansah, but that would be a bad pick. Jason Jones gives you almost the exact same player and could be retained at low cost. Why would we think Ansah would be our savior when Jones wasn't? Pete is smarter than that.

*However, if Pete basically gave Ansah Red Bryant's job, it would be worth the high pick for that alone. Ansah looks very good as a 2-gap 5-tech.

Okafor is a bit like Lawrence Jackson or Everson Griffin, and I think he will have a similar career. Just seems like a guy with the good (not great) tools with average intangibles. Okafor is not a LEO, and unless Carroll doubles back on the Red Bryant role I don't see how Okafor fits. Carroll jettisoned Jackson due to not fitting either role. Okafor is not only slow but lacks quickness too. Hard to see him as a fit.

I think Okafor probably deserves a 2nd round grade, and won't be drafted by Seattle."

pehawk wrote:Meh, I dont like him at all really. Not saying I wouldn't take him, his physical traits are too inticing, but I'd only approve him as a LATE 2nd or 3rd. And, preferrably a 3rd, where the Hawks traded down to nab an extra pick type 3rd.

He just looks typical Texas; talented with all the tools but little desire.

Right. Last thing we want is someone with the desire level of Orakpo,Thomas,Melton,Houston,Robison or D Johnson. Those Texas defenders just don't bring it.

pehawk wrote:Meh, I dont like him at all really. Not saying I wouldn't take him, his physical traits are too inticing, but I'd only approve him as a LATE 2nd or 3rd. And, preferrably a 3rd, where the Hawks traded down to nab an extra pick type 3rd.

He just looks typical Texas; talented with all the tools but little desire.

Right. Last thing we want is someone with the desire level of Orakpo,Thomas,Melton,Houston,Robison or D Johnson. Those Texas defenders just don't bring it.

I know, I know. It's an outdated, mostly offensive syndrome. But, watch his film and get back.

SoCalHawk wrote:kearly, I am confused. 3 or 4 days ago you posted something the EXACT opposite of this...?

"No pass rusher in round one please*, not unless Werner/Jones is there or Simon's stock skyrockets.

I like Ansah, but that would be a bad pick. Jason Jones gives you almost the exact same player and could be retained at low cost. Why would we think Ansah would be our savior when Jones wasn't? Pete is smarter than that.

*However, if Pete basically gave Ansah Red Bryant's job, it would be worth the high pick for that alone. Ansah looks very good as a 2-gap 5-tech.

Okafor is a bit like Lawrence Jackson or Everson Griffin, and I think he will have a similar career. Just seems like a guy with the good (not great) tools with average intangibles. Okafor is not a LEO, and unless Carroll doubles back on the Red Bryant role I don't see how Okafor fits. Carroll jettisoned Jackson due to not fitting either role. Okafor is not only slow but lacks quickness too. Hard to see him as a fit.

I think Okafor probably deserves a 2nd round grade, and won't be drafted by Seattle."

What gives?

Who made up the Jason Jones/Ansah comparison? It makes no sense. They are NOTHING alike. Jones is a tall guy who plays in the middle. Ansah is a speedy defensive end, not a tall defensive tackle. He plays in a 3-3-5 or 3-4 because that is what BYU runs. But he is suited to a DE in a 4-3 like Seattle runs. He is nothing like Red Bryant. He is nothing like Jason Jones. He is like Chris Clemons with more speed. He reminds me of Julius Peppers. Is he a Jason Jones clone too?

He isn't a Jason Jones type though. He's a Clemons type. Similar build and is the guy who goes after the QB from the end. Not a nose tackle or DT. Jones played inside the majority of the time. Ansah isn't even built like Jones. He's a speed guy.

SharkHawk wrote:He isn't a Jason Jones type though. He's a Clemons type. Similar build and is the guy who goes after the QB from the end. Not a nose tackle or DT. Jones played inside the majority of the time. Ansah isn't even built like Jones. He's a speed guy.

Totally agree with you. I see Ansah rotating at both end spots depending on the situation.

Admittedly, just off youtube videos, I don't think Ansah is a fit at LEO, honestly. His first step isn't great and he has no pass rushing moves at the moment. He also looks like he has the frame to get bigger pretty easily. Not that he'd be bad there, but he's not the great fit you want from a first round pick.

IMO, you have him work as a five technique who has the ability to shift outside if the formation/grouping looks like a pass. That's the problem with Red, he doesn't have that versatility. With average improvement (and obviously Ansah has more potential to improve than most, since he's new to football) I could easily see him getting 8+ sacks a year while being a very good run defender. Justin Tuck is the best comparison that comes to mind for me, but that'd be assuming quite a bit of improvement (again, possible).

Sarlacc, on comparing .NET to Soccer: And why not? It's a bunch of people running around in circles, feigning pain, and never scoring.

pehawk wrote:So, with that, if they go DL, it'll be Ziggy IMO. I understand why people would assume Hunt qualifies, but IMO, he doesn't possess a passion for playing like other Hawks.

Can you qualify the final part of that sentence? I've not done a ton of research on Margus Hunt - watched five games of tape, bit of background. But nothing has said to me he doesn't have a passion to play this game. If anything, I'd say he's passionate about being a success. He had the gall to come over to America in the first place to work with a specific discus coach. Had to raise the money to get out here. When SMU cancelled their track and field programme, he didn't rush home. He took the one shot that would've given him the chance to continue working with that coach -- to enrol for the football team and earn a scholarship. He managed that. And then he turned into one of the biggest physical freaks you'll find in college football.

I've listened to two of his interviews. He talks about watching tape, improving, getting better every year. On the field he doesn't seem to take plays off, he plays with some intensity. I don't see any evidence that he doesn't have a passion for playing.

And as much as I sense the potential with Ziggy Ansah, he really hasn't show a great deal of pass rushing threat at BYU. I've seen games where he doesn't have even one pressure off the edge. Athletic qualities are all there, he plays the run well. But I'd want more as a pass rusher to solve a chronic problem for the Seahawks.

Hunt looks awkward if the play is run away from him. Like Shaq on a fast break awkward. I'm not sure if his stiff, confused or lazy, but he plays the first five seconds of a play, and then runs out of gas.

His first five seconds is incredible, but after that he just seems to be going through the motions.

pehawk wrote:So, with that, if they go DL, it'll be Ziggy IMO. I understand why people would assume Hunt qualifies, but IMO, he doesn't possess a passion for playing like other Hawks.

Can you qualify the final part of that sentence?

It was a poor choice of words.

I watched 3 games, of all his snaps, and saw no passion "on the field".

He seemed to only want contact if it came easy, if at all. He was all too happy loafing behind plays, letting his teammates pursue and tackle for him. I equated him to a JOP guy, jump-on-piles, but I rarely even saw that type of contact. Put it another way, there's no way in HELL that dude would've gotten the sack Irvin did against the Skins. He would've stopped after the first block.

I have no problem with raw, physical freaks. But they better be wound up and pursuing like a demon though. Add that to the fact he didn't grow up watching the game, and, it's a red flag.

I usually have no problem with DL who loaf, either. They ALL DO IT. It's just kind of expected. But, the fact he didn't grow up with the game like we all did bothers me when you loaf.

After reading your research, it could easily be what McGruff said. Maybe dude's a tad confused out there. I'm sure he wouldn't be the first European guy kind of confused, ESPECIALLY with new safety emphasis, it's got to be a tad confusing.

I was operating under an incorrect assumption that Seattle required a blazing fast player to be LEO. I also underestimated Okafor the player and Okafor the draft prospect. Sounds like he will be a late 1st round pick.

SharkHawk wrote:Who made up the Jason Jones/Ansah comparison? It makes no sense. They are NOTHING alike. Jones is a tall guy who plays in the middle. Ansah is a speedy defensive end, not a tall defensive tackle. He plays in a 3-3-5 or 3-4 because that is what BYU runs. But he is suited to a DE in a 4-3 like Seattle runs. He is nothing like Red Bryant. He is nothing like Jason Jones. He is like Chris Clemons with more speed. He reminds me of Julius Peppers. Is he a Jason Jones clone too?

Ansah lines up a lot in the 3-tech and 5-tech spots. He also took some snaps wider out as well like a LEO would.

I wasn't the first to notice it, but I think the similarities are fairly striking. And no way does Ansah have more field speed than Clemons. A Julius Peppers comparison is quite rosy as well (can you imagine the hell Peppers would reap playing in whatever conference BYU is currently in?).

I'll at least agree that Ansah looks better as a DE than he does at DT. I actually really like him as a 5-tech option, though he'd be very different in that role than Red Bryant is. And as a LEO, I'd be open minded about it. I think Seattle is pretty much going to have to be open minded about the LEO this year, unless they find someone in FA/Trade or find a gem later in the draft that we don't know about yet.

I think part of the appeal for Jones was his flexibility. This team loves players that can cover mutliple positions, so I have my gaze fixated on Ansah as the draft moves on. I'd rather just bring Jones back and hope he can stay healthy, but Ansah provides pass rush from all over the line and could help make our pass rush less predictable. He could play LEO, 5-tech, 3-tech and even 1-tech on 3rd downs.

I like Alex Okafor, but not so much at LEO. I think he best compares to Jason Jones and could fill a similar role. Alex Okafor started 8 games at DT his sophomore year, so getting reps as a situational pass rushing 3-tech would not be foreign to him.

There does not seem to be that many potential LEO prospects in this draft, but a nice mid-round prospect worth a look is Illinois DE Michael Buchanan. At 6-5 250 lbs he has a similar build to Chris Clemons although he is not as explosive. He at in the Senior Bowl and is worth checking out.

I just watched him in the only youtube video I could find, a game between Syracuse and Rutgers. Sharpe looks undersized and was physically a non-factor, like Barkevious Mingo minus the magic. Brandon Coleman (Rutgers) stood out though. Looked phenomenal. He's probably going to be a very high pick next year.

kearly wrote:I think part of the appeal for Jones was his flexibility. This team loves players that can cover mutliple positions, so I have my gaze fixated on Ansah as the draft moves on. I'd rather just bring Jones back and hope he can stay healthy, but Ansah provides pass rush from all over the line and could help make our pass rush less predictable. He could play LEO, 5-tech, 3-tech and even 1-tech on 3rd downs.

Sorry to derail this thread, but watching these highlights, I noticed how WVU Geno Smith was very good at staying in the pocket and delivering strongly and accurately under pressure. He forces the ball into very tight windows, which may be a concern, but his accuracy is off the charts. He's going to be a starter in the NFL and I wouldn't be suprised if he's drafted #1 overall.

aawolf wrote:Sorry to derail this thread, but watching these highlights, I noticed how WVU Geno Smith was very good at staying in the pocket and delivering strongly and accurately under pressure. He forces the ball into very tight windows, which may be a concern, but his accuracy is off the charts. He's going to be a starter in the NFL and I wouldn't be suprised if he's drafted #1 overall.

I just watched him in the only youtube video I could find, a game between Syracuse and Rutgers. Sharpe looks undersized and was physically a non-factor, like Barkevious Mingo minus the magic. Brandon Coleman (Rutgers) stood out though. Looked phenomenal. He's probably going to be a very high pick next year.

Fair enough, based on the one game you had to work with. But he is a factor on that D, and enough of one to have made the All-Big East team. Yeah, I know, not all that impressive given the conference but still an accomplishment of note. At 6'2", 255 he is virtually the same size as Clem. He is disruptive in the backfield, more so than his numbers suggest (just as my boy Chandler Jones last year). And just like last year, I expect his stock to improve dramatically - not necessarily a 1st rd selection per se, but an early-to-mid day 2 pick. Granted, I could be wrong...it happened once.

kearly wrote:I should reiterate, Chris Clemons is not an athletic freak. Raheem Brock ran a forty time that was just barely faster than what Dontari Poe had. Bruce Irvin IS fast, but still appears incapable of being a true LEO due to other shortcomings.

Sadly, there just isn't an "ideal" LEO in this draft that will reach our pick. Even Clemons isn't truly one. I don't think Okafor is going to be a super star, but I think he could give us maybe 75%-90% of what Clemons does. If you watch him closely, you'll see that Texas kept alternating him from a 5-tech role to a 9-tech role during games. As a 5-tech he's just okay, but as a 9-tech he improves dramatically and is constantly creating pressure.

I kind of hope Seattle goes TE/WR at #25 because that's where I think the value is, but if they draft DL there instead (assuming Red Bryant isn't going anywhere), I think Okafor could work out very nicely as a pure LEO.

My preference would be to sign Cliff Avril in FA, but if Seattle ends up having to address the D-line in the draft early, and a colossal trade up is off the table (likely), I think Okafor is one of the best realistic options at #25. I would much rather take a poor man's Chris Clemons over a Jason Jones clone (Ansah as a 3-tech), or an Alan Branch type (Kawann Short, Sharrif Floyd). Seattle can survive another season of Branch + Jones if it came to that. But they can't survive a season that banks on Irvin playing the LEO or Clemons playing the LEO at half capacity. LEO has to be a huge consideration. I think guys like Okafor and Simon are worth long looks as LEO candidates. Though Simon is the better pass rusher, I would prefer Okafor just because he does not come with any exploitable features like Simon does.

I think Sharrif Floyd is a lot more explosive than Alan Branch, although Floyd has very horrible technique. He gets up too high and loses his violent power, quickness, and explosiveness. It may take two years for him to develop, but he's only 20 years old. He works very hard off the field and plays with a non-stop motor on film. In any case, Coach Quinn would know if Floyd was the real deal or not. Floyd is probably underrated because he played DE last year, as a result of injuries to other DEs in Florida. He's raw and not next year's solution, but as you know the Hawks love to draft a guy and sign a veteran on a shorter contract... and let them compete. Sign a guy like Randy Starks to a 2 to 3 year contract if he doesn't get hyped up in the first three weeks of free agency. If we sign a veteran at the three-tech, it doesn't mean we won't draft a three-tech in the first round.

We definitely need more explosiveness at the three-tech to free up the LEO. The 49ers losing Justin Smith was the perfect example of how that affected Aldon Smith. It's amazing that Clemons is as awesome as he is without having an explosive nasty three-tech. I like your idea of getting Chris Avril as the ideal LEO replacement, although he may ask for more money than he's worth. Hopefully, all the other GM's recognize that Suh increases Avril's productivity and don't over pay him early in free agency.