So.... do we continue to give TB the benefit of the doubt...??? I feel dirty even asking the question, but having defended previous regimes perhaps far longer than they deserved, one I feel entitled to ask.

40 MilePre-recorded interviewer half time said we are still aiming for top 4...and beyond. That may need a rethink.
I don't mind losing against a side playing better and executing well but even Quins haven't been particularly good. It all very frustrating!

Yep, pretty much the fault has been in our execution, our attack and, frankly, bone-headed stupidity at times.

Got what we deservered. Too many players who are not good enough and seemingly poorly coached. If TB had any thoughts of upping and leaving in the summer, then i feel this could have just tipped the scales.

Booth is in the firing line, a lot of our problems stem from our front 5 not performing, things like clearing out rucks, defending around the ruck, set piece, none of which is good enough for our league position.

Unfortunately a few of the backline aren't firing lately. Nothing against the players but form isn't consistent and we should react to that.

Drop Khan to the bench, he needs a reset and might be what we need if we need to close a game out.
Drop Tapuai: we looked better when he went off today, doesn't distribute like he did last season.
Drop Brew as he looks far from his form against Toulon and needs a rest perhaps.

We canít make any stupid excuses about missing players either. It was the forwardsí indiscipline that lost that game & they were all first choice. However the error count applied throughout the team. It all smacks of lack of preparedness & poor professional standards, not player quality. Again & again I find myself saying itís not losing games that grates itís the way we throw games away. The buck will have to stop with the DOR at some stage.

We had more than enough visits to the red zone to have won that. Our ability to butcher those visits through poorly judged passes, dull pick and drives and a lack of authority at half back was why we lost.

Nothing to be embarrassed about, seems a lot of overreaction in here.
Quins were the better side. Couldn't make my mind up if they had better players of were better coached. Maybe a combination of both. They were certainly better at things like passing and catching which has turned out to be a bit of a nemesis for Bath.
It's odd, they keep the ball in our 22,the pressure counts.
We keep the ball in theirs and we crack first.
Ah well, just glad we kept the deficit to under 20 points. Wish we could have scored in the last 75 minutes but it wasn't to be.
Quins are recruiting well and will be a better team next year.
Nothing to be disappointed about. Was the right result on form and on the days performance.

DanchinhoNothing to be embarrassed about, seems a lot of overreaction in here.
Quins were the better side. Couldn't make my mind up if they had better players of were better coached. Maybe a combination of both. They were certainly better at things like passing and catching which has turned out to be a bit of a nemesis for Bath.
It's odd, they keep the ball in our 22,the pressure counts.
We keep the ball in theirs and we crack first.
Ah well, just glad we kept the deficit to under 20 points. Wish we could have scored in the last 75 minutes but it wasn't to be.
Quins are recruiting well and will be a better team next year.
Nothing to be disappointed about. Was the right result on form and on the days performance.

You sound a bit like the Bristol fella, BathPatriot.

But I thought Quins were supposed to be in total shambolic disarray, with claims of players not trying, talk of fan boycotts, "Kingston out", etc. A bit like Northampton.

I can't help thinking that we need to start again. We have made no progress whatsoever under Blackadder, In truth I think we have gone backwards,and we are in a big battle for top 6 now. Of the games left it is only the London Irish game I can really see us getting a win. If we don't make it into the top 6 I struggle to see how we can not make a change. The difficulty is, who could come in and make a difference and how long will it take.

DanchinhoNothing to be embarrassed about, seems a lot of overreaction in here.
Quins were the better side. Couldn't make my mind up if they had better players of were better coached. Maybe a combination of both. They were certainly better at things like passing and catching which has turned out to be a bit of a nemesis for Bath.
It's odd, they keep the ball in our 22,the pressure counts.
We keep the ball in theirs and we crack first.
Ah well, just glad we kept the deficit to under 20 points. Wish we could have scored in the last 75 minutes but it wasn't to be.
Quins are recruiting well and will be a better team next year.
Nothing to be disappointed about. Was the right result on form and on the days performance.

You sound a bit like the Bristol fella, BathPatriot.

But I thought Quins were supposed to be in total shambolic disarray, with claims of players not trying, talk of fan boycotts, "Kingston out", etc. A bit like Northampton.

Is that not the case? Are they a decent side in reality?

Well, the Prem doesn't work on amalgated scores, with previous results giving a weighting on today's. Just today's points scored count for today's result.
Also, I'm not sure Quins are a decent side in general but they were definitely better than Bath. Not a big gulf but enough to win the scores to spare.
After 5 minutes we never scored again.
So, they were clearly better. Credit to them. No complaints and no surprises.

And perhaps we saw a glimpse of why Matt Banahan's contract has not been renewed. No pace, poor tackling and ridiculous no look out of the backdoor passes. Matt has been a great servant to the club and nothing will change that but perhaps age has caught up with him (possibly the same with Kahn).

bathwickboyAnd perhaps we saw a glimpse of why Matt Banahan's contract has not been renewed. No pace, poor tackling and ridiculous no look out of the backdoor passes. Matt has been a great servant to the club and nothing will change that but perhaps age has caught up with him (possibly the same with Kahn).

I think thatís a bit harsh, he had nothing to work with and there were lots of similarly ineffective players today. Thomas, Batty, Taps etc had one to forget for sure. Besides which he didnít have blistering pace when he was 21 let alone 31.

DanchinhoHe was the only player we had who could find the try line tbf.

And tbf he only had to run in a straight line for about 5-10 metres and not beat an opposition player. I think at his age even I could have managed that! (but nothing else)
I agree that not a lot of ball came his way but he was unable to create anything at all and you surely dont believe that he has the pace to run in tries from anything above a few metres. I could list others who also had a terrible day at the office but Matt will never regain his pace and has begun to make too many careless errors imho.

Weíre starting to question whether we can learn and whether the players are actually listening. Weíre a hard-working team. I canít fault the effort, but weíre just allowing teams into the game and thatís often the difference. You (the coaches) can say it as much as you like, but the players have got to listen and transfer that into actions. Something within us, internally, has got to fundamentally change.

More on indiscpline...

It was like deja vu. In the first half, defensively I thought we were outstanding and didnít really get a lot of reward for the hard work we put in. Then, discipline killed us again. We defended really well and didnít need to give those cheap, easy outs away. Then we compounded our errors. It was a very disappointing and frustrating day for the lads.

On the lack of tries and points despite plenty of territory and possession, he said...

We just didnít play within our structure. At times we did and we looked really good. At times we looked like we were playing off the cuff and threw those offloads and they didnít stick today. We looked like we were dithering a little bit. We had really good overlaps and opportunities to shift the ball early and didnít take those opportunities.

ilovebathtimeI can't help thinking that we need to start again. We have made no progress whatsoever under Blackadder, In truth I think we have gone backwards,and we are in a big battle for top 6 now. Of the games left it is only the London Irish game I can really see us getting a win. If we don't make it into the top 6 I struggle to see how we can not make a change. The difficulty is, who could come in and make a difference and how long will it take.

I've been saying this for twelve months, and we've even gone backwards this year.

It winds me up when people call us inconsistent. We're not inconsistent, we're just poor.

Time for a change and I don't often call for coaches' (plural) heads. Their roles seem all over the place and convoluted. Time to start from scratch.

Many times Iíve heard Todd say that what they do in training is not replicated on the pitch. Itís been the case all season so needs to be addressed. Maybe the training/drills are too simple or too complex for a live game? Maybe the training wonít ever match what the opposition bring to a game? Maybe having different captains each match doesnít help, or we have an overall lack of on-field leadership? Maybe the players donít buy in to the game plan?

We just didnít play within our structure. At times we did and we looked really good. At times we looked like we were playing off the cuff and threw those offloads and they didnít stick today.

This is the bit that concerns me. I have no idea of what our structure is supposed to be. Whatever it is I'm not sure it is effective, and it doesn't strike me that the players particularly believe in it. I think the best teams are allowed to express themselves a bit. I wonder if the reason Burns has struggled this season is because he is a player who plays on instinct who is being shackled. I can think the only reason Kahn is ahead of Cook is because the structure is to kick away posession and slow down the play so that we play to a pre conceived plan, that certainly is what he is doing and every week he gets picked.

We just didnít play within our structure. At times we did and we looked really good. At times we looked like we were playing off the cuff and threw those offloads and they didnít stick today.

This is the bit that concerns me. I have no idea of what our structure is supposed to be. Whatever it is I'm not sure it is effective, and it doesn't strike me that the players particularly believe in it. I think the best teams are allowed to express themselves a bit. I wonder if the reason Burns has struggled this season is because he is a player who plays on instinct who is being shackled. I can think the only reason Kahn is ahead of Cook is because the structure is to kick away posession and slow down the play so that we play to a pre conceived plan, that certainly is what he is doing and every week he gets picked.

I canít disagree. Just think of the number of games which we have not just lost but where we have nowhere near reached an acceptable standard. I can bring to mind Saints away, Falcons at home, Exeter away, Sale away, Wasps at home, Scarlets at home, Newcastle away, Quins away. We didnít just lose those matches. We were either taken apart comprehensively or lost because of indiscipline & really poor execution. Of course we had some good wins along the way but we have totally lacked consistency & have never learnt how to address things.

Do not often post these days but watched the game on TV today and have seen most games live this season. Let us not mess about - we are basically poor. We have some top players ( who mostly under perform ) we have a lot of average players ( who perform averagely ) and we have a lot of poorer players who are sometimes good but are mostly bad. We recruited Todd B who has never achieved anything much in his career and then we are surprised when guess what he achieves nothing much at Bath.
Our recruitment has been a mess - just individuals not a team building and that shows. We can blame injuries, refs, international calls et al but in truth a lot is wrong at our club and much of it is down to our owner our DoR and our " soft " approach to recruitment and training based at the holiday camp known as Farleigh.
We will not get relegated and we might even win the nothing AW cup but other than that we are going nowhere and there is little sign of likely improvement.
Blame who you feel fit but do not blame the supporters - they will probably stick around whatever just like I have for over 50 years which might be part of the problem I guess - who needs success when you can fill the ground whatever tripe you are serving up ?

RawceMany times Iíve heard Todd say that what they do in training is not replicated on the pitch. Itís been the case all season so needs to be addressed. Maybe the training/drills are too simple or too complex for a live game? Maybe the training wonít ever match what the opposition bring to a game? Maybe having different captains each match doesnít help, or we have an overall lack of on-field leadership? Maybe the players donít buy in to the game plan?

Very good point, but perhaps the problem is there is no-one to interpret the training. By that I mean I was always a bit confused by stories that George Ford had his own little training sessions on the pitch. At least that meant that there was someone on the pitch that got the game plan.

If we had someone on the pitch that was intelligent, a leader and could implement Todds plan we would at least have a chance. BoB won't like this but I wonder if that is Ewells?

I read this as meaning that he said stuff and they either didnít listen or didnít understand what he was saying:

Weíre starting to question whether we can learn and whether the players are actually listening....You (the coaches) can say it as much as you like, but the players have got to listen and transfer that into actions. Something within us, internally, has got to fundamentally change.

Its high time we had a DoR with a very clear vision of the style of play he wants who is prepared to be ruthless to get the right players with the winning mentality.

We have no idea of the game plan or style of rugby that we are trying to aspire to. Our recruitment has been just unacceptable and if we are spending the cap as the club says then we are not getting value for it.

Todays issues as I see them

1. Make shift fly half passes 20 yards backwards to first receiver who takes contact and goes nowhere. Wilson doing his best, Tapuai not anywhere near good enough.
2. Weak front row, weak props - been an issue for years but we still use the same faces
3. Serious discipline issues for Thomas, Lahiff and Batty - back to school please for you guys. Thomas wont play for England as he cant scrummage and cant control himself.
4. Falling off tackles - why? Brew guilty of this recently as well as others

There is no doubt Dave Attwood would have helped today. It is simply bad management not to have him here. If its down to the cap then its bad management, if we don't need him then its bad management because we do.

The STH have been sold out by the club and Bruce Craig yet again as we move a home game to London - I actually hope we get what we deserve and it sparks a change.

Do not blame the coaches. For God's sake it is those on the field who can and should influence things. So the coaches are spending the pre match time showing our show ponies how to drop simple passes, not clear out rucks, drop lineout balls, have mauls going backwards, missing tackles, not supporting runners, bind in the front row illlegally, set a scrum, don't bother to chase a kick; need I go on? We have seen this dross all season and it just does not get better. Why? Because the so called players have not the wit or gumption and determination to turn it around. Any self respecting well paid professional if they truly cared would be doing their utmost to turn things around, and certainly by now. Our lot cannot be bothered to learn or listen and quite simply are not up to the physicality and fight of the top flight of the Prem league.

I don't care who they are, underperformers have to go and we need to rebuild a side who take pride in playing the game and supporting each other. All the lip service they spout is worth diddly squat!

Yes I would agree we lack on-field authoritive leadership and have done for many a season. If players are not performing or sticking to the game plan, where are they being balled out? Also, our captains and other players always seem to get on the wrong side of the referees and because we are known to give penalties away like confetti, will always ping us in 50/50 situations because they believe we infringe all the time.

Someone inferred Ewels is the leader we need. Why and what single thing did he do that turned us around today? He didn't do anything ( as usual) and never has in my line of vision!

Our need for physically strong props and tough, edgy second rows showed again today. Lightweights who may be able to run a bit are not going to give you a sufficient platform to win decent ball and carryout the hard graft the Prem demands. Stooke tried his best as always today but was fighting a losing battle. Batty and Thomas on that showing needs to think long and hard about playing top class rugby.

Bath Rugby are extremely lucky to have such a band of die hard supporters, but many of whom are having their long term loyalty severely tested by what is happening to our once proud club. Buck up Bath Rugby and lets start to put things right. I must say, although it grieves me to hear him say it, Todd is beginning to say it as it is and speak plainly, thank God! Now for action and hopefully a positive player reaction.

BathovalballerDo not blame the coaches. For God's sake it is those on the field who can and should influence things. So the coaches are spending the pre match time showing our show ponies how to drop simple passes, not clear out rucks, drop lineout balls, have mauls going backwards, missing tackles, not supporting runners, bind in the front row illlegally, set a scrum, don't bother to chase a kick; need I go on?

So, three coaches in charge of proceedings shouldn't shoulder any blame in your world, but 30-40 players are ALL in the wrong. Ridiculous.

BathovalballerDo not blame the coaches. For God's sake it is those on the field who can and should influence things. So the coaches are spending the pre match time showing our show ponies how to drop simple passes, not clear out rucks, drop lineout balls, have mauls going backwards, missing tackles, not supporting runners, bind in the front row illlegally, set a scrum, don't bother to chase a kick; need I go on? We have seen this dross all season and it just does not get better. Why? Because the so called players have not the wit or gumption and determination to turn it around. Any self respecting well paid professional if they truly cared would be doing their utmost to turn things around, and certainly by now. Our lot cannot be bothered to learn or listen and quite simply are not up to the physicality and fight of the top flight of the Prem league...............

This would be fine if we hadn't been doing all these things well for the first 20 minutes, more turnovers to Bath than I've seen for a long time.
We lack a cutting edge - an ability to score - then the performance just drops off.

We now know more about Wilson, outstanding line kicking, steady under pressure, but yet to show how to get our backs moving.

To be fair Wilson is one of those who can hold his head high, he is giving it everything in D and A. However, as he has said himself he has played 10 and is happy to play wherever but he is pretty rusty and slow service isnít helping him. Agreed that is some of the best line kicking I have seen from a Bath 10 since GF left.

From my perspective I am still struggling to understand how we lost that game. We had a decent pack of forwards with plenty of experience and enough nous to play a fwd dominated game. I still don't know why we went with Wilson at 10, as good as he was against Sale, if Lewis was fit. We were lucky he did a job against Sale but Wilson is not a 10.
Their did seem to be some collective stupidity out there, and as others have said it seems as if the players do not have faith in the coaches.
"Something is rotten in the state of Bath Rugby" (with apologies to the Bard)

ShortyinBurnhamWe need to speed up the ball from the breakdown. When Cook came on we suddenly started moving forwards, and got over the line twice despite neither try being given.
Without decent quick ball our backs can do nothing as they are getting the ball and a tackler at the same time.

Kahn has been playing in slow motion since November, really bizarre. He can put pace on the ball every so often which makes the times when he slows things down to a crawl even weirder. Replacement 9s usually tend to look good off the bench but Cook absolutely has to start.

Well even if he is following orders, he and the so called on field captain can sutrely see its not working and change things. That is where the players are responsible for their on field actions or lack of them.

BathovalballerWell even if he is following orders, he and the so called on field captain can sutrely see its not working and change things. That is where the players are responsible for their on field actions or lack of them.

And get dropped for the next game? If you go out and do the exact opposite of what you are told to do then chances are the coach won't pick you and will eventually ship you out.If Blackadder was asking Kahn to play to a fast tempo and he wasn't doing that then Cook would be starting every week. The fact he isn't tells it's own story

Bath BluesI'm done with parting with my hard earned money watching Bath turn up and go through the motions, we are poor and simple not worth watching.
For the rest of the season I will go and watch the Chiefs play down in Exeter to get my fix of Premiership action.

This is a joke right ? Otherwise I can't believe anyone would care enough to post on this site and then choose to watch another side because "we're a bit **** at the moment"

We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment.
We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals.
We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards.
If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing
abuse@sportnetwork.net