[QUOTE=feltdizz;589951]so... all this talk about Bell and DL wasn't even here when he played his rookie year? That's rich... very rich.[/QUOTE]

the only 2 rookies to make a significant impact on defense over the last decade or so are hampton and bell

both when DL wasnt the coordinator

01-13-2014, 04:06 PM

sick beats

All I know is I am sick as s---t of having to hear how complex it is, and how long it takes players to grasp it. No other team has this problem, to this extent. Now that we were merely middle of the pack on D, it's time to re-evaluate his "system" or maybe weather he should retire at this point.

This year, we were even soft vs. the rush. That is never supposed to happen.

01-13-2014, 04:16 PM

feltdizz

[QUOTE=NJ-STEELER;589982]the only 2 rookies to make a significant impact on defense over the last decade or so are hampton and bell

both when DL wasnt the coordinator[/QUOTE]

my bad NJ... I misread your post and thought you said "was" the coordinator.

Crazy how all these years people have used Bell and Hampton and no one caught it. Maybe someone did address it but it gets repeated so much most of us took it as a fact.

01-13-2014, 04:17 PM

steeler_fan_in_t.o.

I think that the reasoning of the D being too complex has been overblown. I think the main reason why rookies have rarely seen the field in the last ten or so years is because there hasn't been anywhere to put them.

Who was going to crack the lineup as a rook, and where? CB opposite Troy? ILB over Foote? There have been many fewer openings on this D than on most other teams. That is why other teams have had to allow their rooks to play their rookie years, and we see them make big plays and wonder why they can play and make big plays but our rooks do not. What we don't see as often is the boneheaded, out of position, rookie mistakes that they have made. They don't make the highlight reels.

Of course, with much less returning talent every year, we now see guys like Jones and Williams playing their first year. Expect to see more of that.

01-13-2014, 04:24 PM

squidkid

[QUOTE=steeler_fan_in_t.o.;589985]I think that the reasoning of the D being too complex has been overblown. I think the main reason why rookies have rarely seen the field in the last ten or so years is because there hasn't been anywhere to put them.

Who was going to crack the lineup as a rook, and where? CB opposite Troy? ILB over Foote? There have been many fewer openings on this D than on most other teams. That is why other teams have had to allow their rooks to play their rookie years, and we see them make big plays and wonder why they can play and make big plays but our rooks do not. What we don't see as often is the boneheaded, out of position, rookie mistakes that they have made. They don't make the highlight reels.

Of course, with much less returning talent every year, we now see guys like Jones and Williams playing their first year. Expect to see more of that.[/QUOTE]

excellent points.
problem is now the last couple years there have been numerous opportunities for rookies to start over mediocre veterans but they really havent. the few that did, stunk.

"He has the same effect on his teammates," defensive coordinator Tim Lewis said. "You should hear them whoopin' and hollerin' every time he makes a play."

You should hear Lewis when he's in the privacy of a dark film room, reviewing tape of the previous game. Invariably, Bell jumps off the screen.
"He'll do something, and I'll say, 'My gawd, I don't think I've ever seen that before,' " Lewis said. "He's just so athletic, so powerful, so explosive."
It's not hard to imagine Lewis doing a little whoopin' and hollerin' of his own.

So that settles it. Tim Lewis was the DC when Bell started and if you research further you will see that we let Vrabel go and didn't have anyone for Bell to compete against his rookie season. LOL..

All this time people have used Bell as proof on what a rookie can do under Lebeau and DL wasn't even here when it happened. Freaking amazing and sad at the same time. Oh well... at least we have Casey Hamp... hold onnnnn!!!!

NJ was right about this... but I think it's good to keep it up just in case someone tries to use the Bell and Hampton argument for DL.

01-13-2014, 05:02 PM

SS Laser

Worilds name has popped up in this thread. So let me be the first to say he is just a average OLB. Is that what we want? Yes it was nice he had a spark this season. I also like his tackle numbers. But did he do any big splash plays beyond a few sacks. Woodley was maybe still can be a play maker. But he also might be done here and in the NFL as a top OLB. Our OLB's in the SB years have made big plays for us! I think it was Pap in a thread that the #1 need is OLB. That could very well be true the more I look at this. Wonder if it is worth trading up for Barr? Hard to figure 2 #1 picks at OLB. But with out getting extremely lucky on a project like JH it might be the only way to have a great Steelers D. Plus IF JJ is a bust or ends up average then the D is in BIG trouble with the rest of the OLB situation. Also Barr could end up starting day 1 because Worilds has moved on and Woodley gets cut. Now I see why for a lot of years a DE convert/OLB was picked in a bunch of drafts!

01-13-2014, 05:28 PM

papillon

[QUOTE=squidkid;589981]agreed.
problem is the 2008 draft was declared a good draft
the 2009 was declared a good draft
the 2010 draft was supposed to be good
etc etc etc.
evey year the fans proclaim A- drafts only to have them turn into C-[/QUOTE]

2008 and 2009 were "F" drafts from the Steelers perspective, some of the players are playing and being productive, but not for the Steelers, so to me they are an "F". We have one player on the roster from two drafts and the potential exists that he will not be here in 2014. Fans always try grading a draft on draft day and back in 2008 it looked like the Steelers hit the lottery being able to draft Mendenhall and Sweed in rounds 1 and 2. It didn't work out that way, but on draft day with nothing other than college performance to judge it looked like a winner.

It always takes until the first contract expires to determine whether a draft has helped a team or not.

Pappy

01-13-2014, 06:07 PM

ikestops85

[QUOTE=sick beats;589983]All I know is I am sick as s---t of having to hear how complex it is, and how long it takes players to grasp it. No other team has this problem, to this extent. Now that we were merely middle of the pack on D, it's time to re-evaluate his "system" or maybe weather he should retire at this point.

This year, we were even soft vs. the rush. That is never supposed to happen.[/QUOTE]

It's kinda funny what you say about "No other team has this problem, to this extent". I just happened to be browsing a Packer forum the other day and saw a thread about Dom Capers. In it they were discussing what a couple of Packer players had said on a local radio show. Here is part of the post which I hope everybody will find as amusing as I did ...

[quote]I was listening and caught all of that......along with the praise by the d-line coach for Raji which about choked after hearing. The 2 points that stood out to me.

1. Tramon saying the young players dont get the scheme and it took him years to master
2. The largest playbook in the league.

This is not regarded as the best defense in the league to my knowledge so why does it require the largest playbook and why can't half these guys figure it out? San Fran/Baltimore/Seattle....all pretty good defenses. Why does this playbook need to be harder and bigger than theirs?[/quote]

Sound familiar? This is the same system that Steeler fans on this board were praising back in 2010 wondering why we couldn't implement it. Why our system was so complicated ... why our young players didn't see the field? The same b!tching and moaning as our fans but nothing that a few talented players wouldn't cure.

C'mon, you have to at least chuckle about it. :lol:

01-13-2014, 06:08 PM

ikestops85

[QUOTE=papillon;589975]Man, I'm not even an Xs and Os guy, but I think I know what the Steelers try to do on defense. They want to make the offense one dimensional and they don't want to give up big plays, ie, they want an offense to have to run 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 plays to score points, because there's a good chance on long drives that the offense will make a mistake that the defense can then capitalize on. It has worked for a very long time, the past 2 years the two things the defense needs to happen, didn't happen, they couldn't make a team one dimensional and they gave up big plays and it showed in the defense's mediocre showing.

What the Steelers need is another good draft (It appears that last year's is going to be pretty good) to make up for 2008 and 2009. The style, scheme and coordinator really aren't the problem from where I'm sitting in the cheap seats. The FO may be the biggest reason the defense has suffered the past two years.