Tape begins with talking
Ron: I think I’ll leave it alone.
Rosetta: Elaine Cooper from Australia is here to tell us about Electrum, too, and I think before I
do Scooter Scoop I’m just, what have you been doing, anyway, Elaine?
Elaine: Working day and night, I feel like that. But it’s coming along very nicely and we’re
thrilled with this year’s Electrum and the response that we’ve had in regard to juried art show
entries, I believe we have something like 80 artists represented in the juried art show and I think
around 130 pieces of art.
Rosetta: What is a juried art show?
Elaine: This is where artists will submit their work and they go before a panel of judges. This
year we have three, Mr. Branson Stevenson from Great Falls, Sister Joanna Daily from
Anaconda and Ray Camp from Bozeman. These people will judge the juried, judge the pieces of
art and 50 pieces will then be selected for the juried art show. They’ll be placed in a special
section of the Civic Center for display. All of the art that is not, does not make it into the juried
art show, will be also shown for the public to view.
Rosetta: Um.
Elaine: There are cash awards too in there I should mention.
Rosetta: And you have 80 artists.
Elaine: 80 artists.
Rosetta: From all over Montana.
Elaine: We have them from Montana, we have them from Tennessee, we have them from
Kentucky, we have them from Illinois and Washington, and probably some other states I’ve
forgotten.
Rosetta: Yes. And this is going to be Friday. Tell us …
Elaine: The judging will take place Thursday. We’re a little behind schedule. We had planned
to have the juried art show open to the viewing by 10 on Friday, but I’m afraid we’re held up to
one o’clock. And so that will be from 1 to 9 p.m. on Friday. Saturday from 10 till 9 and Sunday
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from 10 till 5. Also at the same time I should mention in the Civic Center where the art shows
will be hung, the art and craft mart, and this will be on the floor of the ballroom. And here we
have dealers and artists from several states including Montana. At the moment something like
36 are registered. These are pre-registrations and there are always those that arrive on Saturday
morning wanting to buy space in the ballroom. And here there’ll be many, many types of art and
crafts for people to see and purchase if they so wish.
Rosetta: Now where is the bulk of this going to be held?
Elaine: The bulk of it is in the Civic Center in the ballroom area. We are also utilizing the
auditorium for our workshops, but people should enter through the ballroom entrance there on
the side. They can come in and go down to the ballroom area where all of this will be. It’s free
admission, there’s no charge, and of course the pieces of art are for sale if people wish to
purchase, plus the crafts. But to get in there and just look at everything is absolutely free, no
charge at all for that.
Rosetta: And that starts?
Elaine: That starts Friday at 1 p.m. and will go on through Sunday until 5 p.m. Then we, in the
auditorium part, of the Civic Center on Saturday, we have several workshops and
demonstrations. At 10:30 a.m. we have Mr. Branson Stevenson with a print making
demonstration in Lecture Art and the Coincidences of Art, that’s in the auditorium.
Rosetta: He’s going to be with me on Friday, and I….
Elaine: He’s a fascinating man.
Rosetta: And I’m looking forward to him.
Elaine: A delightful person, and that’s free admission. There’s no charge to that, that’s
sponsored by the Artistry here in town, that’s why we did not have to charge. The graphic art
demonstration in the afternoon is being sponsored by the Helena Carroll Arts Council, that’s also
free and that will be conducted by Sister Joanna Daily who does the most beautiful prints, just
gorgeous work. The poetry workshop is at four o’clock. Now that is not in the Civic Center,
that’s at Carroll and it’s in the Humanities seminar room 208. It’s free admission also and that’s
to be conducted by a Mr. Ed Layhee, who was with us last year and proved very popular.
Rosetta: What will the poetry, what is a poetry workshop?
Elaine: He will read some of his poetry. People who have written poetry will also read some of
theirs. There’ll probably be some critiques on it. They’ll compare work, get some ideas on what
they should be doing to improve their work. I did not make it last year, I saw very little of
Electrum last year. I hope to see more this year.
Rosetta: This is what usually happens with the person who heads it up, and gets it all underway.
They don’t really get to enjoy.
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Elaine: Really don’t. And then there’s a really interesting ceramic workshop or potting
workshop by Mr. John Novey who’s from Austria and very well known. And that will be in the
Civic Center and it commences at 9:30, will run through with coffee and lunch breaks until 4
p.m.
Rosetta: Now there is a fee for that.
Elaine: There’s a fee for that. That’s a $5 workshop. And then the weaving demonstration is in
the ballroom and here all day long people from the Helena Weavers’ Guild will be demonstrating
and also supplying people with small kits where they can learn how to weave and get started and
they’ll help them on that. That will be all day there. Now, what else is happening on the, we’ve
gone through Friday and Saturday. Saturday night is the celebrity concert with Mr. Sebastian
Cabot and we’re selling quite a number of tickets to that and I suggest anybody who’s interested
in buying a ticket should perhaps purchase it now. They can purchase it at Hennessy’s Beauty
Salon, and Floreish Shoes or at the Civic Center, where we’re in the check room, in the ballroom
area there. That’s where we established our office to receive the art and we’re also selling
tickets.
Rosetta: What will Mr. Sebastian Cabot do? He doesn’t sing or dance or…
Elaine: No, he doesn’t, but he’s a very fine actor, and having talked to him several times on the
phone, he’s also very humorous I can assure you. He will be doing a program which he does on
college campuses throughout the nation and it’s called “A Love Affair with the English
Language.” That in itself to me is a fascinating title. He’ll be doing dramatic readings, comedy
sketches, favorite verse, and even visiting with the audience about his life as an actor. And he at
one time mentioned he’d be willing to answer questions from the audience, so.
Rosetta: I’m not going to be able to do an interview with Mr. Sebastian Cabot, but Elaine is, and
I’ve given her my little cassette.
Elaine: And now I’m committed, really.
Rosetta: Had I just asked her to do it and she had said yes, but now I’ve given her the cassette,
Elaine is going to interview Sebastian Cabot and I will have that for you one day after Electrum
II.
Elaine: Keep your fingers crossed.
Rosetta: You will enjoy it, you will enjoy it, Elaine. It’s fun.
Elaine: Yes, he’s a fun person.
Rosetta: How much are the tickets to this on Saturday night?
Elaine: They’re $5, $3.50, $2.50 and students and under 12 are $2.
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Rosetta: And they are on sale you said at Hennessy’s, Floreish’s and at the Civic Center. And
they should get their tickets as quickly as possible and this will be held in the Civic Center.
Elaine: That’s right. We have a bus load coming in from White Sulphur Springs, so we’re
excited about that.
(End of interview; beginning of new interview)
Music
Ron: Flip the button up. No, not your button. There.
Rosetta: Good morning and you’re listening to Scooter and I’m Rosetta. And you’re listening to
Ron Davison who tells me how to turn on, and he did and…
Ron: Yeah. Wasn’t that nice? How many words did she waste there that probably no one in the
world will ever know about, Vince.
Vince: About ten.
Ron: Ten words, go on forever.
Rosetta: Ten words! Well, we have a little problem here. Ron Davison has a sore foot.
Ron: That’s a problem? That’s a problem, now that you mention it, yes.
Rosetta: You want to tell us how you hurt your foot.
Ron: Playing games.
Rosetta: Playing games. You broke it.
Ron: Yeah. I want to tell you that those nurses there at St. Peter’s really are nice.
Rosetta: They fixed your little ol’ toe up and…
Ron: Oh, they fixed it up and kept me occupied while I was, you know, wandering around there.
Rosetta: He won’t tell us exactly how he broke his foot and he, you want to hear about a noble
man. He all morning sat through the hour with me and sat all through his hour on the air, his
hour…
Ron: Kept wondering why I was gritting my teeth.
Rosetta: Yes, you do that at me frequently because you don’t like me or you’re upset with what
I’m saying, but I didn’t realize you were grimacing from pain.
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Ron: Oh.
Rosetta: And then after everything was said and done and he finished his little things that he
does every morning to wake up the town and keep everyone rolling, he went off to the doctor
who told him that he had broken his foot.
Ron: What good news that was, right before hunting season.
Rosetta: Right before hunting season.
Ron: Vince and I have it figured out. I’m going to mount my rifle on my one crutch. Then if I
see anything I just raise it up and Wham, just like that. (Laughter) Perfect.
Rosetta: Well, Ron. That’s too bad. But I’m glad you’re here and that you’re feeling better and,
now you can’t really do anything to me, can you. Youre sort of defenseless and helpless.
Ron: I may not be able to run fast, but once I get rolling with those crutches, just look out.
Nothing stops me. In fact, nothing, so.
Rosetta: You can reach further now that you have crutches. Today we’re going to have that
promised program on the compass and everyone run get your compass and if you loaned it to
someone, now’s a good time to call them up and tell them to bring it back. Vince Yannon is
down from the Fish and Game Department to tell us all how to read a compass, and he didn’t
bring a compass, which upset me terribly. I said, how will I know how to read my compass
when you didn’t bring one, and he said, you’ll have to do it like all the others now, Rosetta.
You’re going to have to envision a compass and the needle and all the little points on it and learn
to read a compass this way. So I will, I’ll try anyway, Vince. Then we’re going to have, let’s
see, we’re going to have Scooter Scoop, and we might have time for questions for Vince, yet,
we’ll take a few minutes for questions. And then we have the incoming national president for
the National Association of Realtors and he will be here to talk about the high interest rates
we’re looking at and the big down payments we’re making on houses and the tight money
situation and what does the national association represent so you may want to orient yourself to
that. So it is a busy program, but before we get started, I have been attending and will again
today, the series of meetings for the Montana Safety Foundation, it’s the Montana Association of
Women’s Highway Safety Leaders and this is their third annual Safety Conference and it’s going
on right now, this morning, at the Travel Lodge, and if you listened last week you will remember
Sylvia Casey, who is the Montana Safety Foundation chairman, tell you about that. I listened to
Mr. Mike Harrington talk about the alcohol testing under implied consent last night, and all you
drinkers and non-drinkers would have been interested in what was said, because everyone had
their say. And I strongly recommend that you attend these sessions today. Now I would forgive
you if you walked out on us right now because it started at 8:30 and at 9, well, right now Senator
Antoinette Rossell from Billings is talking about being a lobbyist, a lady lobbyist and this is a
free series of meetings and it continues today from, well now, they’re in session and on up until
five o’clock tonight you can sit in on any part of these. It’s downstairs at the Travel Lodge in the
Rimini Room and they will cover such topics as the Habitual Offender Bill, the No-Fault
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Insurance in Montana, Safety Should Start in School, the Mandatory Seat Belt Use, Problems
and Priorities, and many other areas of highway traffic safety, and since we have covered some
of those things on Scooter in recent weeks, this would be a good time for you to get in on this,
and I want to tell you about it now so that you know, today’s the date. Kind of a gloomy day.
Change your mind, whatever you’re going to do and go to this. It starts at 9. Right now. She’s
speaking right now.
Ron: Oh, you’re late, ma’am.
Rosetta: Yeah, so you’ve gotta get there. Of course, Senator Rossell is outstanding and we
enjoy listening to her, but there are other outstanding speakers on that agenda throughout the
day. So I hope everyone who can possibly attend will show up because again there is no charge
for this and very informative, very knowledgeable speakers in all areas and you have a chance to
say what you want to say. Last winter, I had a little gal come see me, her name was Becky
Madsen and she said I want, I’m going before the legislature to see if we can’t proclaim a Good
Neighbor Day, or a National Next Door Neighbor Day or something like this because the
neighborliness in people has just gone by the wayside and we don’t have that feeling to help.
And I thought, gee, that’s kind of nice, but this seemed like such a remote thing with today’s
society. Well, do you know that she had this accepted by our legislature. It was written up and
in a form of a proclamation, accepted by our legislature and Tom Judge, our Governor, issued
this and then she took it all the way to Washington DC and the President of the United States has
a proclamation for a National Next Door Neighbor Day and it’s going to be this Sunday, Sept.
23. Everyone is supposed to be a little more neighborly. Isn’t that something? You may find
your neighbor in a rocking chair, in bed in pain in sorrow and anger and in prison and in different
colors and you may even find him at home happily waiting for you, so go to him. Let’s begin a
new age of caring, of appreciation and understanding. Each of us will find our own way of
caring. A telephone call, a coffee party, a ride in the country, a block party, whatever you do, let
reaching out be a happy, family tradition. Together we can build peace in the world and a
meaningful America. Let it begin with each of us and our next door neighbor. Let it grow from
day to day, neighbor to neighbor, nation to nation and generation to generation. Have a happy
day. Okay, that’s this Sunday. And Vince is growing impatient. Well, that’s how it is Vince,
sometimes. I think I better get to Vince before I do Scooter Scoop. I have it all right here, all the
announcements I want to make, but he’s doing a little tap dance behind me and he wants to talk
about the compass.
(Silence)
Rosetta: Vince Yannon with the Fish and Game Department. What about the compass. Okay,
envision, draw a picture, a mental picture for us of a compass.
Vince: Draw a circle and in that circle divide it up in 360 degrees.
Rosetta: Oh, I can’t do that, 300 and 60 degrees.
Vince: 60 degrees.
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Rosetta: (Whispering 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Vince: Then at 90 degrees you put East, and then at 180 degrees you would put South and then
at 270 degrees you would put West, so you, and you go in a clockwise direction. North, South,
East and West.
Rosetta: North is at the top.
Vince: North is at the top, South is at the bottom, and East, it just depends on which way you’re
facing though, and West will be to your right or to your left, but I’ll explain that in a second.
Now they are the principle points of a compass. And then in between your North and your East,
you have another point and this is called Northeast. So actually, you have eight principle points,
you with me now? Between the North and the East there’ll be a Northeast point. Between the
South and the East will be a Southeast point. And these are the eight cardinal points. So on a
compass if you were to make a pie and then you break it up into eight different parts, this would
be an illustration of North, South, East and West, and then points in between them, North,
Northeast, South, Southeast, and in between the points of your major four. Is that evident there?
Rosetta: Yes.
Vince: Alright. Now. You have to know how to use a compass if you’re not going to get lost in
the woods. The basic thing is to learn how to read a compass. Your compass needle, you have
to know your compass. Some compasses have a blue point. Some have no point at all, have a
little dot of red on the end of it. And this red orientates itself to magnetic North. Alright now,
magnetic North is not true north. True North is a angle away. Now in the Northwest it can vary
anywhere from zero to 22 degrees. If you were in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that line where
Cincinnati, Ohio, goes through, if you draw a line up toward North, that’s true north and in
Cincinnati, Ohio, when you take your compass out, your compass needle points true north. But
in Montana it will not point a true North in the Northwest Region. But that is not any worry to
anyone here if the basic purpose is to stop you from getting lost in the woods and how do you do
this? Well, the first thing you should do is look at your compass and determine which point if it
is not clearly designated is north, or which one is rotating north. And you can do this by the fact
of taking a look at your compass and turning it and swinging it and the needle that constantly
goes or the point that constantly goes the same direction is the one that’s pointing true North,
magnetic North. Now magnetic North is just like if somebody would taken, has taken say, a
large body of ore and planted it in the Earth and this needle or this compass needle is swinging to
that, and that’s why it’s not true North. Magnetic North is totally different that true North and it
varies wherever you are on the Earth, so you must take this in consideration. But, we aren’t
going to navigate across any large water, we are not going to travel millions of miles, we are
probably going to hunt in a radius of maybe ten square miles and so we have to learn to use our
compass in a very short range. But you should know your compass first. Which one is pointing
true North, or excuse me, magnetic North. And know the true North exists, but when you go to
read your compass, you’re reading magnetic North, not true North. Okay, is that, you’re giving
me a, you’re frowning and all. What I’m saying is when you take your…
Ron: That blank look.
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Vince: (Laughter) When you take your compass out, it’s pointing north, but it’s magnetic North
instead of true North. Does that confuse you?
Rosetta: Well, does that make a difference if I’m out in the woods? I have to say, gee compass,
are you magnetic North or true North?
Vince: Well, for a very small area that you’re going to cover in hunting, this is what this man’s
question was, how do we stop him from getting lost…
Rosetta: Yes.
Vince: No, it doesn’t. But if you were going to sail around the world or something, boy, you
better know that.
Rosetta: Oh.
Vince: And there is a variance that you must take into consideration in reading maps many
times, you should know that we are not on true North but on magnetic North when you set your
compass up and all.
Rosetta: Alright, Vince. Let’s see it as a hunter. He’s getting out of his car now and he’s
heading into the woods. What should he do first?
Vince: Alright. The first thing he should do is take a reading, and not with a compass, or when I
call this a reading, a reading with the eyesight. Now, I’ve never been lost. I’ve been confused
and know where to go.
Rosetta: I have been lost in Yellowstone Park in Norris Geyser Basin in the middle of winter in
February with a couple of Park Rangers and…
Vince: Who were supposed to know where…
Rosetta: Yes, and we were very lost.
Vince: Okay, now here’s what we do and these people should be experienced or anyone that
hunts.
Rosetta: We didn’t have a compass.
Vince: Well, you don’t always need a compass and I’ll show you that in a second, how you can
tell North, South, East and West without a compass. Okay, the first thing you should do when
you jump out of your car is take visual observation points. When I get out to hunt I look to my
right, my left, in front of me and in back of me. All the time and the most important is in back
because you are going forward, you must know what’s behind you. Okay? Because then you
equate things. Now, sometimes I take a little piece of paper, I scribble on it, high mountain, low
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mountain to the right of it. Water drainage going what I think is south, and then I look at my
compass. So I’m saying, you draw a baseline. A baseline is a line from your right and left of
where you’re taking off and here’s how you do a baseline. You walk out a distance, I usually
walk maybe, 200 yards, 300 yards, and I take a twig and I bend the twig over and I face that twig
where I started. If I walk to my right, my twig is bent to the left. You see what I’m saying? I’m
making a line. I take these bushes and break these small twigs that I know that’s my baseline or
where I started. Now, if I’m in real tough country, I’m not going to always get back to the exact
same point as that I left. It’s impossible. But I’ll hit that baseline and I’ll see those twigs busted,
and if it goes to the left, the twig, I walk down to the left, if it goes to the right, I’m going to the
right of it coming back and I walk down to the right. You see what I’m saying? And I get to the
centralized point where I’ve been. Now, here’s what you do, here’s the essence. You take a
visual observation, you make this baseline. I have never had trouble when I have done this;
never had trouble. Many people that travel all the time in the backcountry, do not use a compass
or anything, they use familiar points or places like this where they know that they can key to that
and they’ll go back to where they started. All right, now. Let’s say that you drew your baseline.
You don’t know the country at all. You take your compass out and the compass is divided into
360 points. All right, zero isn’t on there, it goes from 1 to 360, so you won’t see zero on there,
360 and zero is the same thing, North, or magnetic North. So you set your, you turn your
compass to where the needle is pointing to North. Right? Then you look out as the compass is
pointing North, you look at the direction you want to go, and the direction that you see that
mountain over there that looks real good and has deer on the side of it or anything, you look with
binoculars, and then you take a look down at your compass over the top of it and this is called
setting your compass. You set your compass down someplace where it’s flat where the needle
can rotate free. Now there’s a precaution that should be made here. You shouldn’t have a large
piece of metal, like a knife or gun or anything, cause that will affect the magnetic North or the
movement of the compass to the magnetic North. If you put a gun real close to it or a large
object it will take it away from magnetic North. So when you set your compass down that’s
called setting the compass, you make sure it’s level and make sure the needle of the compass can
rotate freely. You set that then, or you turn it to true North, which is marked on a little dot below
your needle, North, South, East and West, and has this 360 degrees and then you put that needle
facing true North or N on the little compass chart underneath your needle. Then you look at the
mountain where you think you want to go and say that that reads 72 degrees. Now, how’d I get
that 72 degrees? I look at the mountain and then I look down and take a stick or something and
point that stick at the mountain and take it over top of the compass and here, I look down here at
72 degrees on my compass, with it pointing North, you understand what I’m saying? So I’m
going to walk in that direction at 72 degrees. Now, I walk for awhile, and I don’t walk in a
straight line, cause you can’t in backcountry, but you move around this way, that way. Now I
want to come back and I turn around after walking three or four hours, and I want to know how
in the world do I get back to where I started. If I started at 72 degrees, I add 180 degrees. I get
my compass out again, set it down on a stump, point it to true North. Then I started at 72
degrees but I’m going to have to a total reversal, I’m going to have to do 180 degrees, I’m going
to turn around the other way, see. You see what I’m saying? So you have 180 degrees plus 72.
Rosetta’s saying, yeah, yeah. (Laughter) 180 degrees plus 72, you add these two together, 180
plus 72 and you come out with 252 degrees. So when my compass is setting down there I look at
where 252 degrees appears and I walk in that direction. I will probably hit my baseline. You see
what I’m trying to say?
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Rosetta: Oh, I’d get lost, I think, if I used a compass.
Ron: Vince, you would more or less then have to have a tall object, a mountain or something, to
keep walking toward.
Vince: Right. Now, in country, when are looking for something or hunting for something, you
pick points like that, everybody in God’s creation that hunts wants to get back, unless they have
the equipment to go with them and just get lost. And another thing, I have tried to get lost. I
took my wife one time, we just…
Rosetta: (Laughter.) Tried to loose your wife. Oh.
Vince: But we walked and walked and I said when we stopped I had no compass I said, I don’t
know for sure what is, where the car is. We might have to walk up or down the mountain. But
there’s a point of reference which I took, an old snag, when we left. And I said, we’ll head for
the old snag. Well, she says, the whole time she was saying, well maybe we won’t come back
here, we’re lost. We’ve been just walking all day. I said, you know we walked right to the car.
And because of that old snag and observation point. And so, yes, Ron, you should pick a place
to walk toward, but you will never walk a true direction and that’s why I say make a baseline 200
feet one way, 200 feet the other. And just pull, or snap a twig. Some fellows use blazes, but
that’s not good, that’s a mark on a tree. Because then you scar the trees and all. But a small
plant or shrub bent in that fashion and that’s tree marking or shrub marking. And a lot of fellows
in our new country do this. Now, I pick observation points as the prime things.
Ron: Scooter, go ahead, please.
Rosetta: Well, while Ron gets this caller on the air, I think Vince had better tell us, you were
going to tell us quickly something else.
Vince: I gotta tell you quickly this. If your reading is greater than 180 degrees, then you
subtract it on your way back. That is to say if your first reading is 72 degrees, you must add 180.
If your first reading is 260 degrees, you subtract 180, see. You see what I’m saying there? The
whole thing is based upon a total reversal, because if you’re facing one way and you turn and
face the other way, that’s 180 degrees. That’s all you’re doing, you’re compensating for making
a swing or a full turn around, opposite which way you’re going. That’s why you add or subtract
180 degrees. If it is greater than 180 degrees, you subtract it. If it is less than 180 degrees, you
add it. Okay? Now, one other thing. If you didn’t have a compass or anything like this and you
wanted to find north, this way is usually pretty fool proof, about 80-85 percent of the time it
works. You take your watch. You point your little hand, or the hour hand to the sun. Then the
distance between your hour hand and 12 mid…, 12 on your watch. That is to say if you pointed
your right now, this morning, if the sun were to my right in this particular case, I would point the
hand of my watch to my right and then I would look at the distance between the point of where
my 9 o’clock is to 12 and halfway between that point would be South. Now, that’s hard to
describe on the air. But you point the little hand to the sun and then rotate on around till you get
12 o’clock and then halfway between your little hand and 12 o’clock is South. Now, that’s
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pretty hard to describe on the air, but you have to visualize. It works, you’ll get South. Then on
the other side, then, would be north. If you’re in the woods in the morning, do not have a watch
or anything, how do you orientate yourself, the sun rises in the East, okay. You look at the East
and then to your left, would be north. To your right would be south. To behind you, then, would
be west. See? Looking at the sun, rising. If it’s setting in the evening and you usually see the
sun if it’s cloudy, usually see it in the morning or evening. You turn around, you look then at the
sun in the Western direction and it’s just the reverse. This time, instead of being your right hand,
your left hand being north, would be south. You see what I’m saying here? These are hard to
explain on the air, but if you remember the rising sun in the East and your left hand would be
north, your right hand would be south. And then it’s just the reverse later on in the day. One
other way of telling it, and this is North, South, East and West, if you know the woods well,
certain plants grow on certain slopes. The South slope is usually open, the West slope is usually
open, and Southwest slopes are open. The North slope is very thick and dense, has a lot of moss
in the trees and everything on that. So you get orientation points that way. One other way, fast
again. If you, pick a star at night, any star you want. Get a long stick and a short stick. You line
these two sticks up. If the star rotates to the West, it is an eastern direction. If it rotates to the
east, it is a western direction. And these can be all explained, and there’s a good book out, and I
want to say this, it’s the good old Scout Handbook. If your son’s been a scout, or has been a
scout, or if you want a good little book to read to tell you North, South, East and West, and
anything like that, the good old Scout Handbook has an excellent thing. And that’s even a plug
for scouting there, too.
Rosetta: We have a call, Vince, let’s take it.
Ron: This is Scooter, go ahead, please. Oh, we lost her. Anyway she told me that all you have
to do is follow the stream down the hill.
Vince: No, no. Oh, that makes me shiver. You know, you know, you follow the stream down
the hill, mostly in most all streams there’s development all along them. Everybody believes that
the streams float south. They do not float south. The Missouri River floats in a Northeastern
direction. The Gallatin, the Madison, the Jefferson are floating North. So if you’re saying that
the stream is floating in a southern direction in Montana, you’re going to get lost. Okay,
following a stream south, or following it down, you follow the Flathead in the wrong area you’ll
end up in the Bob Marshall Wilderness, okay?
Rosetta: Mercy.
Vince: Do not think of following a stream down. You’ve got to know the country before you
start following down. You’re right when you say they’ll be development on the stream though.
I’m saying that. There’s always people developed along water and everything. But you better
watch where the stream moves. There are different drainages and I’ve been lost in a drainage
where I’ve followed the stream down knowing that I was wrong, but I had to walk over two
mountain ridges to get back where I started. And when you follow a stream and you’re lost it’s
always dense and thick down along the moisture of the stream and you panic more. I had a
girlfriend at one time got lost this way and thank goodness she used her head, she just stopped
for the night and built a big fire and everything, and she came out the following morning. We
12
were hunting. So all I’m saying to you is that you don’t go by that cardinal thing is south, the
stream flowing down is south. It is not south in Montana.
Ron: One thing, I do hesitate when I think I’m lost and that’s walking uphill over too many
ridges, Vince. I get tired fast that way.
Vince: Well, that panics people, see, and that’s the first thing they do, they panic, and that’s a
different thing and maybe someday we could get to that, what you do when you’re lost ‘cause
that’s awful important. Ninety percent of all the people that perish when being lost like that,
wouldn’t have to perish if they’d use their head and they panic and they start running ridges and
stuff like that and fatigue themselves and don’t have the food or anything. He’s right. That’s an
important factor. And if you’re not conditioned to being lost, I think being lost is fun, because
then I learn how to come back out again. I do not ever fear being lost. I fear the fact that if I’ve
told somebody I’ll be home at a certain time, which I’m never on time anyway, but if I’ll be
home at a certain time, I’m not there, so that bothers me, but I’m not worried about being lost.
Ron: Okay, we have a caller, go ahead please.
Caller: I just wanted to comment that it’s been really interesting and we always carry a compass
and I think everybody should and know how to use it, but I think Vince is right in this mainly
observation, especially here in Montana where you have mountains. It’s different if you’re out
in swamp country, you know, or level country in some of the other states. But here in Montana,
I’m desperately afraid of getting lost because I have no sense of direction and some people do,
you know, I know people who can walk away from a car, walk for hours and in a certain
direction and head right back to the car.
Ron: Right, right.
Caller: But I have no sense of direction and so I have to watch very carefully and I do this
looking backwards and citing in on, you know, the way mountains lay so that if I get mixed up
all I have to do is get up to a high enough point that I can see where things are and pick out those
mountains and find my way back in a general way in that manner. So I think that’s really
important and people shouldn’t just think, well, all I’ve got to do is carry a compass and I’m not
going to get lost, it’s a sense of direction, a really important thing is to look at things.
Ron: Right. Thank you.
Rosetta: I think this is true when you get into the big cities in the big parking lots, you know,
you can loose your car if you don’t know…
Vince: When you park someplace where there’s a lot of other cars, you look at the aisle, you
think of the aisle or you think of something like that. And what I’m saying is, she’s right, the
woman’s right, you could have a hundred compasses on you and without taking a baseline,
without taking an orientation, it takes time to read compasses. Now there’s some beautiful
compasses out, I don’t know how you could get lost. They have degrees in them, they float in a
liquid, alcohol usually. You always can drink the alcohol if you get… (Laughter) Anyway, you
13
can, they float in this alcohol, and they’re very accurate and you can take readings in regards to
true North, magnetic North, and you can come right back on the car. I do have a knowledge of
how these work. I’ve used a couple of them. But I feel that the general compass you can get for
two or three dollars, or the needle point compass this is called, and a general view of the contour
of the land, I don’t think anyone ever can get lost. I really don’t. And if you do get lost we can
talk about that at another time.
Rosetta: Good, Vince. We don’t have time today. You are always so knowledgeable. We have
a call though before you go, so maybe this is a question for you.
Ron: Scooter, go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. Vince spoke at a Scout dinner about a little survival kit in this little tiny container.
I’m sure he knows what I’m talking about. And if you’ve got room to carry a compass I know
you have room to carry this little snuff can or whatever it is that you use.
Ron: Oh, okay, thank you.
Vince: Yeah. Survival kits are excellent and they should be taken along with you and they’re
not too cumbersome or anything.
Rosetta: This will be our last call on this topic right now.
Ron: Last caller, go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah. I don’t understand all that hullabaloo about compass reading. All I do is take out
a dirty old deck of cards and start playing solitaire and before I know it somebody’s looking over
my shoulder and telling me which card to play and then I ask him how to get out of there.
(Laughter)
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: Okay, now Vince has something…
(Laughter)
Vince: That man’s a smart man.
Rosetta: Well, that’s survival. Tell us what’s on your mind.
Vince: All right. Now tomorrow, excuse me, I don’t mean tomorrow. National Hunting and
Fishing Day is on the Fri…, Saturday, the 22nd. It’s been proclaimed by the Governor and I have
a display at the Capitol. There will be coffee and donuts and something to drink there and I’ve
got all different types of wildlife on display. I hope you all show up. I’ve got hunting and
fishing maps there to show you, answer some of your questions in regard to special permits if
14
you did or did not get them and I’ll have those there. And, so if you have some time and want to
bring the kids to see some ducks mountain goat and coyote and all, these are all live mounts and
they’re fun to look at and see. Please feel free to stop in between 10 and 2 at the Rotunda and
come in the front door of the Capitol. And tell the rest of your friends about it. I don’t want to
sit there all alone. I could be out there hunting. The next thing I would like to say is very
important to me and maybe it hits home more than anything. I had two, three things stolen this
past week that are worth probably near $3,000. They are the Fish and Game’s and therefore,
they are yours, too. I used them for displays and they were a grizzly hide and a black bear hide
and a bald eagle. I can identify the hides clearly. They have been stolen on Sunday night.
They’re worth considerable amount of money. I am looking for these hides and whoever stole
them, please bring them back. Leave them someplace because they’re for everybody. This way
you’ll take them home and lay them on the floor and they’re beautiful to see and all, but not
everyone will get a chance to see them. They broke through four locks to get to these hides.
They took only the hides and the bald eagle. Of all things, now, they are, I cherish them more
than anything. The black bear hide I looked for four years for a hide like that to show people
what big black bear are. I’ll never be able to replace the grizzly hide. If you want to return them
or you know somebody that’s got them, please give me a call. I’ll come and pick them up
wherever they are. Help me find these for everybody to see such beautiful animals and in turn it
helps protect them and understand these animals, for everybody to see, not just a few.
Rosetta: Okay, Vince. I know how deeply you feel about this and I hope that there is a response
and if they are afraid to call they could leave them someplace.
Vince: Right. Thank you for inviting me and maybe again we’ll come down and well talk
about after you’re being lost and what to do.
Rosetta: Oh. Good, Vince. And thank you. Always, terrific, terrific and we’ll talk to you again.
(Pause)
Rosetta: We’re in a very big hurry and we’ll be back right after this.
Rosetta: Here is the quick Scooter Scoop for you today. Josephine Heppner Auxiliary is
meeting September the 20th, that’s tomorrow, at 8 o’clock at the Home Federal Savings meeting
room. The introductory lecture on transcendental meditation is tomorrow night at 8 p.m. in the
Neighborhood Center. It is free and open to the public. Handcraft items by local Indians are
now on display in the children’s department at Helena Public Library. Articles for sale are
courtesy of the Helena Indian Alliance. The Helena Carroll Arts Council has established an
office in the Civic Center ballroom cloak room for the Electrum II festival. Any artists or
interested persons should contact Elaine Cooper at 442-1512. Electrum II planning meetings
will be held each Wednesday at the Plymouth Congregational Church at 8 p.m. People
interested in being Bluebird and Campfire Girl group leaders are invited to the training sessions
Wednesday and Thursday, today and tomorrow. Group leaders will learn about the new
programs here and how to present them. The Wednesday, the 19th meeting is for Bluebird
volunteers and the meeting Thursday, tomorrow, the 20th, is for Campfire volunteers. Both
training sessions will be held in Campfire Girls headquarters at 11 Placer at 7:30 p.m.
15
(Pause)
Rosetta: Mr. Joseph Daugherty has arrived and as I told you in the beginning, he is the incoming
President for the National Association of Realtors. And they’re meeting here, Montana realtors
are meeting here at the Colonial and there are lots of them around. And I hope that you will feel
free to call 442-6161 with your questions concerning buying a home, selling a home because Mr.
Daugherty will try to answer those questions for you. Welcome to Helena Mr. Daugherty.
Mr. Daugherty: Well, thank you. We’re very happy to be here.
Rosetta: Are you having a good time?
Mr. Daugherty: Well, we got in rather late last night. We haven’t seen too much of your city
yet, but we are certainly happy to be here. This is our first trip into Montana and Mrs. Daugherty
and I are looking forward to the hours that we’re going to spend here with the Montana realtors.
Rosetta: Where’s home for you?
Mr. Daugherty: Andover, Massachusetts, which is 25 miles north of Boston.
Rosetta: Well, well. You are a long way from home.
Mr. Daugherty: Yes, we’ve been on the road quite a while. We’ve come from the Maine
convention and the Utah convention.
Rosetta: That keeps you hopping. Well, we have questions for you and the first one, one of my
sponsors is the multi-list realtors of the Helena area. Multi-list, I’m sure you’re familiar with this
nationwide organization.
Mr. Daugherty: Well, most boards around the country have organized a multi-listing service.
It’s an excellent way for buyers and sellers because it gives the seller an opportunity to get
maximum exposure to the buying market and it saves an awful lot of time for the buyer when he
walks into a multiple listing office because that listing broker has listings from a wide area, from
other members of his board, and he’s able to provide a very wide range of selection of houses
and it saves the buyer from trooping from one office to another.
Rosetta: You just did a beautiful commercial. Thank you very much. (Laughter) That was a
Helena multi-list commercial for today. Thank you very much. Now let’s find out what’s
happening with money and buying houses. Money is the thing. They say money makes the
world go round and causes people to lose lots of sleep and people to have lots of fun and all this.
Interest is so high and the down payment on the house. These are the worries and they just flood
my mind and they’re flooding others so maybe you can just do a take off from there.
Mr. Daugherty: These are real worries. This is the third time now, since 1966, that the
government has actually selected the housing industry to take the full brunt of its effort to control
16
inflation. We went through it in 1966, we went through it in the 1969-70 period. We have been
told this will not be as bad, but my personal judgment is that this is worse. I can’t recall a time
when I have seen the money market as difficult as it is right now. It’s practically impossible to
get mortgage financing. The banks in our area are completely dried up. My office is struggling
trying to place mortgages. The interest rate is beyond the capacity of the average person to cope
with it. And we have asked the Congress and the Administration, we ask them constantly, that
when we run into these inflationary periods, and when the government feels obligated to try to
enforce certain controls that will slow down a heated economy, we’ve asked that they not select
the housing industry as the whipping boy and make housing and the people who need housing
suffer the most in this period. You see, in the money market there are so many opportunities for
those who are investing to invest their money in other places than the mortgage lending
institutions and that means that the mortgage lending institutions are not receiving the deposits,
they don’t have the money available to loan, and when they do, the rates are just beyond
anything that we’ve seen. If you’re asking me when are we going to see relief, you know…
Rosetta: Yes. The outlook.
Mr. Daugherty: I don’t have a crystal ball. Some of our governmental people tell us that we
should see relief by the first of the year. I certainly hope so. This is really the worst money
crunch that we have seen.
Rosetta: Well what is the average person to do? Do you tell them to sit tight, well, they have to.
They’re literally forced into …
Mr. Daugherty: They don’t have any alternative. Interestingly enough, I was being interviewed
by a news reporter in Salt Lake City the day before yesterday and he introduced a personal note.
He said, I’m trying to buy a home for myself, and he said, I can’t find a lending institution that
will make the loan and even if I find one I don’t think I can afford it. So the problem was real
for him. The only advice we can give is for the people to contact their Congressional
representatives, their representatives in the House and the Senators, and ask them to use
whatever leverage they can to get the administration and the Federal Reserve people to change
the policy.
Rosetta: This is what I wondered. What pressures can you bring to bear, the National
Association of Realtors? What do you attempt to bring upon this situation?
Mr. Daugherty: Well, of course, our main office is in Chicago, but we do maintain a staff in
Washington, in our Washington office. We have a director of Governmental Affairs there and
we have many specialists on the staff who are in constant contact with HUD and with HUE and
Department of Justice and with Congressional and Senatorial committees. And we try to give
the best input we can through those channels in the interest of the public. You see, the 80
million home owners in this country really are not organized with any spokesman. We are
114,000 realtors and on January 1 we will add 400,000 associates. They’re the sales people in
our offices. That will give us a total membership in excess of half a million, which will be the
largest trade association in the United States. And we believe that as leaders of the industry that
we have a real serious obligation to speak in the interest of these homeowners, because as I say,
17
they’re not organized and they don’t have a lobby. And so what we are trying to do is bring
some sense into this money market and we don’t know exactly what decisions are going to be
made in Washington, they are now talking about providing some tax incentive to some of the
lending institutions so they will retain a sufficient amount of their deposits to be made available
for residential mortgages. Certainly something has got to be done in the structure of banks and
lending institutions and credit organizations so that we will have a guaranteed supply of
mortgage money so that the average citizen who has a right to own a house has an opportunity to
get a mortgage at a rate that he can afford to pay.
Rosetta: We’re talking with Mr. Joseph Daugherty, the incoming 1974 President of the National
Association of Realtors. We have a caller and a question on 442-6161 and we’re just going to
open it up for the next four minutes or so for that. Let’s take this call, Ron.
Ron: Yes, go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. I have to admit that I don’t quite understand all this business about interest rates in
the first place, but I wondered what in the first place drove the interest rates up so high and then
what has to happen to bring the home mortgage interest rates down. Does the interest rate paid
on savings and certificates and this kind of thing have to come down, or I just don’t understand
the financial business of the whole thing.
Ron: Okay, thank you for calling. That’ll have to be our last call.
Mr. Daugherty: Well the money market is a very complex subject and I think we have to try and
simply as we can to answer that question. What happened to the money that was in the local
savings institutions that prior to this crunch period you were able to go in and get a mortgage?
Now what happened was this. The interest rate on certificates, the interest rate paid by
government treasury bills, became so attractive that many of our citizens went right into the
savings institution where they had savings and they took that money out and they invested it in
the higher interest investments. When they did that they reduced the availability of your local
savings and loan or your local bank to make a loan to you. They didn’t have the money because
these banks operate under very rigid laws which state what percentage of their deposits they can
make available for mortgage lending. And in other words, what happened was the supply of
funds dried up. Well now if you slow down the supply of funds in any economy you have
supply and demand and if money is short it cost more and I don’t like to over simplify it but this
is exactly what has happened. Now how do we cure it? We’re going to have to cure it by
making these easy methods of investing in these other areas perhaps a little less attractive. You
see one of the big problems is the government itself.
Rosetta: Mr. Daugherty I wish we could have talked longer. You are knowledgeable and you
would have been a real service to the community, but we simply are out of time and that happens
sometimes in radio. Thank you very much for coming to Montana and for being on Scooter with
us today.
Mr. Daugherty: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.
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Rosetta: Good. Now, the Golden Dolphin, that’s where you can shop for all those perking up
your house month. This is it. This is September and this is the month to perk it up and that’s the
place to go, the Golden Dolphin for doing it, located in the Capital Plaza Shopping Center. Do
so. Tomorrow I’m going to have one of those interviews with Mr. Ron Kennedy who’s vice
president of Pavey Company. We’re going to discuss the agricultural situation in Montana. He
was one of the gentlemen who spoke to the Montana Chamber of Commerce dinner last week
and I want you to meet him and it’s been a busy day and thanks for listening and we’ll see you
tomorrow.
(End of program)

Click tabs to swap between content that is broken into logical sections.

Interviewed by Rosetta Kamlowsky on October 1, 1973 for the Scooter radio show on KBLL radio. The topic discussed was the Electrum II art show held in Helena in October 1973. The art show included a juried art show, a graphic arts demonstration, poetry, ceramics and acting workshops.
Interviewed by Rosetta Kamlowsky on September 19, 1973 for the Scooter radio show on KBLL radio. Vince Yannon of the Montana Fish and Game Department discussed orienteering.
Interviewed by Rosetta Kamlowsky on September 19, 1973 for the Scooter radio show on KBLL radio. Joseph Daughtery served as the President of the National Association of Realtors

Tape begins with talking
Ron: I think I’ll leave it alone.
Rosetta: Elaine Cooper from Australia is here to tell us about Electrum, too, and I think before I
do Scooter Scoop I’m just, what have you been doing, anyway, Elaine?
Elaine: Working day and night, I feel like that. But it’s coming along very nicely and we’re
thrilled with this year’s Electrum and the response that we’ve had in regard to juried art show
entries, I believe we have something like 80 artists represented in the juried art show and I think
around 130 pieces of art.
Rosetta: What is a juried art show?
Elaine: This is where artists will submit their work and they go before a panel of judges. This
year we have three, Mr. Branson Stevenson from Great Falls, Sister Joanna Daily from
Anaconda and Ray Camp from Bozeman. These people will judge the juried, judge the pieces of
art and 50 pieces will then be selected for the juried art show. They’ll be placed in a special
section of the Civic Center for display. All of the art that is not, does not make it into the juried
art show, will be also shown for the public to view.
Rosetta: Um.
Elaine: There are cash awards too in there I should mention.
Rosetta: And you have 80 artists.
Elaine: 80 artists.
Rosetta: From all over Montana.
Elaine: We have them from Montana, we have them from Tennessee, we have them from
Kentucky, we have them from Illinois and Washington, and probably some other states I’ve
forgotten.
Rosetta: Yes. And this is going to be Friday. Tell us …
Elaine: The judging will take place Thursday. We’re a little behind schedule. We had planned
to have the juried art show open to the viewing by 10 on Friday, but I’m afraid we’re held up to
one o’clock. And so that will be from 1 to 9 p.m. on Friday. Saturday from 10 till 9 and Sunday
2
from 10 till 5. Also at the same time I should mention in the Civic Center where the art shows
will be hung, the art and craft mart, and this will be on the floor of the ballroom. And here we
have dealers and artists from several states including Montana. At the moment something like
36 are registered. These are pre-registrations and there are always those that arrive on Saturday
morning wanting to buy space in the ballroom. And here there’ll be many, many types of art and
crafts for people to see and purchase if they so wish.
Rosetta: Now where is the bulk of this going to be held?
Elaine: The bulk of it is in the Civic Center in the ballroom area. We are also utilizing the
auditorium for our workshops, but people should enter through the ballroom entrance there on
the side. They can come in and go down to the ballroom area where all of this will be. It’s free
admission, there’s no charge, and of course the pieces of art are for sale if people wish to
purchase, plus the crafts. But to get in there and just look at everything is absolutely free, no
charge at all for that.
Rosetta: And that starts?
Elaine: That starts Friday at 1 p.m. and will go on through Sunday until 5 p.m. Then we, in the
auditorium part, of the Civic Center on Saturday, we have several workshops and
demonstrations. At 10:30 a.m. we have Mr. Branson Stevenson with a print making
demonstration in Lecture Art and the Coincidences of Art, that’s in the auditorium.
Rosetta: He’s going to be with me on Friday, and I….
Elaine: He’s a fascinating man.
Rosetta: And I’m looking forward to him.
Elaine: A delightful person, and that’s free admission. There’s no charge to that, that’s
sponsored by the Artistry here in town, that’s why we did not have to charge. The graphic art
demonstration in the afternoon is being sponsored by the Helena Carroll Arts Council, that’s also
free and that will be conducted by Sister Joanna Daily who does the most beautiful prints, just
gorgeous work. The poetry workshop is at four o’clock. Now that is not in the Civic Center,
that’s at Carroll and it’s in the Humanities seminar room 208. It’s free admission also and that’s
to be conducted by a Mr. Ed Layhee, who was with us last year and proved very popular.
Rosetta: What will the poetry, what is a poetry workshop?
Elaine: He will read some of his poetry. People who have written poetry will also read some of
theirs. There’ll probably be some critiques on it. They’ll compare work, get some ideas on what
they should be doing to improve their work. I did not make it last year, I saw very little of
Electrum last year. I hope to see more this year.
Rosetta: This is what usually happens with the person who heads it up, and gets it all underway.
They don’t really get to enjoy.
3
Elaine: Really don’t. And then there’s a really interesting ceramic workshop or potting
workshop by Mr. John Novey who’s from Austria and very well known. And that will be in the
Civic Center and it commences at 9:30, will run through with coffee and lunch breaks until 4
p.m.
Rosetta: Now there is a fee for that.
Elaine: There’s a fee for that. That’s a $5 workshop. And then the weaving demonstration is in
the ballroom and here all day long people from the Helena Weavers’ Guild will be demonstrating
and also supplying people with small kits where they can learn how to weave and get started and
they’ll help them on that. That will be all day there. Now, what else is happening on the, we’ve
gone through Friday and Saturday. Saturday night is the celebrity concert with Mr. Sebastian
Cabot and we’re selling quite a number of tickets to that and I suggest anybody who’s interested
in buying a ticket should perhaps purchase it now. They can purchase it at Hennessy’s Beauty
Salon, and Floreish Shoes or at the Civic Center, where we’re in the check room, in the ballroom
area there. That’s where we established our office to receive the art and we’re also selling
tickets.
Rosetta: What will Mr. Sebastian Cabot do? He doesn’t sing or dance or…
Elaine: No, he doesn’t, but he’s a very fine actor, and having talked to him several times on the
phone, he’s also very humorous I can assure you. He will be doing a program which he does on
college campuses throughout the nation and it’s called “A Love Affair with the English
Language.” That in itself to me is a fascinating title. He’ll be doing dramatic readings, comedy
sketches, favorite verse, and even visiting with the audience about his life as an actor. And he at
one time mentioned he’d be willing to answer questions from the audience, so.
Rosetta: I’m not going to be able to do an interview with Mr. Sebastian Cabot, but Elaine is, and
I’ve given her my little cassette.
Elaine: And now I’m committed, really.
Rosetta: Had I just asked her to do it and she had said yes, but now I’ve given her the cassette,
Elaine is going to interview Sebastian Cabot and I will have that for you one day after Electrum
II.
Elaine: Keep your fingers crossed.
Rosetta: You will enjoy it, you will enjoy it, Elaine. It’s fun.
Elaine: Yes, he’s a fun person.
Rosetta: How much are the tickets to this on Saturday night?
Elaine: They’re $5, $3.50, $2.50 and students and under 12 are $2.
4
Rosetta: And they are on sale you said at Hennessy’s, Floreish’s and at the Civic Center. And
they should get their tickets as quickly as possible and this will be held in the Civic Center.
Elaine: That’s right. We have a bus load coming in from White Sulphur Springs, so we’re
excited about that.
(End of interview; beginning of new interview)
Music
Ron: Flip the button up. No, not your button. There.
Rosetta: Good morning and you’re listening to Scooter and I’m Rosetta. And you’re listening to
Ron Davison who tells me how to turn on, and he did and…
Ron: Yeah. Wasn’t that nice? How many words did she waste there that probably no one in the
world will ever know about, Vince.
Vince: About ten.
Ron: Ten words, go on forever.
Rosetta: Ten words! Well, we have a little problem here. Ron Davison has a sore foot.
Ron: That’s a problem? That’s a problem, now that you mention it, yes.
Rosetta: You want to tell us how you hurt your foot.
Ron: Playing games.
Rosetta: Playing games. You broke it.
Ron: Yeah. I want to tell you that those nurses there at St. Peter’s really are nice.
Rosetta: They fixed your little ol’ toe up and…
Ron: Oh, they fixed it up and kept me occupied while I was, you know, wandering around there.
Rosetta: He won’t tell us exactly how he broke his foot and he, you want to hear about a noble
man. He all morning sat through the hour with me and sat all through his hour on the air, his
hour…
Ron: Kept wondering why I was gritting my teeth.
Rosetta: Yes, you do that at me frequently because you don’t like me or you’re upset with what
I’m saying, but I didn’t realize you were grimacing from pain.
5
Ron: Oh.
Rosetta: And then after everything was said and done and he finished his little things that he
does every morning to wake up the town and keep everyone rolling, he went off to the doctor
who told him that he had broken his foot.
Ron: What good news that was, right before hunting season.
Rosetta: Right before hunting season.
Ron: Vince and I have it figured out. I’m going to mount my rifle on my one crutch. Then if I
see anything I just raise it up and Wham, just like that. (Laughter) Perfect.
Rosetta: Well, Ron. That’s too bad. But I’m glad you’re here and that you’re feeling better and,
now you can’t really do anything to me, can you. Youre sort of defenseless and helpless.
Ron: I may not be able to run fast, but once I get rolling with those crutches, just look out.
Nothing stops me. In fact, nothing, so.
Rosetta: You can reach further now that you have crutches. Today we’re going to have that
promised program on the compass and everyone run get your compass and if you loaned it to
someone, now’s a good time to call them up and tell them to bring it back. Vince Yannon is
down from the Fish and Game Department to tell us all how to read a compass, and he didn’t
bring a compass, which upset me terribly. I said, how will I know how to read my compass
when you didn’t bring one, and he said, you’ll have to do it like all the others now, Rosetta.
You’re going to have to envision a compass and the needle and all the little points on it and learn
to read a compass this way. So I will, I’ll try anyway, Vince. Then we’re going to have, let’s
see, we’re going to have Scooter Scoop, and we might have time for questions for Vince, yet,
we’ll take a few minutes for questions. And then we have the incoming national president for
the National Association of Realtors and he will be here to talk about the high interest rates
we’re looking at and the big down payments we’re making on houses and the tight money
situation and what does the national association represent so you may want to orient yourself to
that. So it is a busy program, but before we get started, I have been attending and will again
today, the series of meetings for the Montana Safety Foundation, it’s the Montana Association of
Women’s Highway Safety Leaders and this is their third annual Safety Conference and it’s going
on right now, this morning, at the Travel Lodge, and if you listened last week you will remember
Sylvia Casey, who is the Montana Safety Foundation chairman, tell you about that. I listened to
Mr. Mike Harrington talk about the alcohol testing under implied consent last night, and all you
drinkers and non-drinkers would have been interested in what was said, because everyone had
their say. And I strongly recommend that you attend these sessions today. Now I would forgive
you if you walked out on us right now because it started at 8:30 and at 9, well, right now Senator
Antoinette Rossell from Billings is talking about being a lobbyist, a lady lobbyist and this is a
free series of meetings and it continues today from, well now, they’re in session and on up until
five o’clock tonight you can sit in on any part of these. It’s downstairs at the Travel Lodge in the
Rimini Room and they will cover such topics as the Habitual Offender Bill, the No-Fault
6
Insurance in Montana, Safety Should Start in School, the Mandatory Seat Belt Use, Problems
and Priorities, and many other areas of highway traffic safety, and since we have covered some
of those things on Scooter in recent weeks, this would be a good time for you to get in on this,
and I want to tell you about it now so that you know, today’s the date. Kind of a gloomy day.
Change your mind, whatever you’re going to do and go to this. It starts at 9. Right now. She’s
speaking right now.
Ron: Oh, you’re late, ma’am.
Rosetta: Yeah, so you’ve gotta get there. Of course, Senator Rossell is outstanding and we
enjoy listening to her, but there are other outstanding speakers on that agenda throughout the
day. So I hope everyone who can possibly attend will show up because again there is no charge
for this and very informative, very knowledgeable speakers in all areas and you have a chance to
say what you want to say. Last winter, I had a little gal come see me, her name was Becky
Madsen and she said I want, I’m going before the legislature to see if we can’t proclaim a Good
Neighbor Day, or a National Next Door Neighbor Day or something like this because the
neighborliness in people has just gone by the wayside and we don’t have that feeling to help.
And I thought, gee, that’s kind of nice, but this seemed like such a remote thing with today’s
society. Well, do you know that she had this accepted by our legislature. It was written up and
in a form of a proclamation, accepted by our legislature and Tom Judge, our Governor, issued
this and then she took it all the way to Washington DC and the President of the United States has
a proclamation for a National Next Door Neighbor Day and it’s going to be this Sunday, Sept.
23. Everyone is supposed to be a little more neighborly. Isn’t that something? You may find
your neighbor in a rocking chair, in bed in pain in sorrow and anger and in prison and in different
colors and you may even find him at home happily waiting for you, so go to him. Let’s begin a
new age of caring, of appreciation and understanding. Each of us will find our own way of
caring. A telephone call, a coffee party, a ride in the country, a block party, whatever you do, let
reaching out be a happy, family tradition. Together we can build peace in the world and a
meaningful America. Let it begin with each of us and our next door neighbor. Let it grow from
day to day, neighbor to neighbor, nation to nation and generation to generation. Have a happy
day. Okay, that’s this Sunday. And Vince is growing impatient. Well, that’s how it is Vince,
sometimes. I think I better get to Vince before I do Scooter Scoop. I have it all right here, all the
announcements I want to make, but he’s doing a little tap dance behind me and he wants to talk
about the compass.
(Silence)
Rosetta: Vince Yannon with the Fish and Game Department. What about the compass. Okay,
envision, draw a picture, a mental picture for us of a compass.
Vince: Draw a circle and in that circle divide it up in 360 degrees.
Rosetta: Oh, I can’t do that, 300 and 60 degrees.
Vince: 60 degrees.
7
Rosetta: (Whispering 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Vince: Then at 90 degrees you put East, and then at 180 degrees you would put South and then
at 270 degrees you would put West, so you, and you go in a clockwise direction. North, South,
East and West.
Rosetta: North is at the top.
Vince: North is at the top, South is at the bottom, and East, it just depends on which way you’re
facing though, and West will be to your right or to your left, but I’ll explain that in a second.
Now they are the principle points of a compass. And then in between your North and your East,
you have another point and this is called Northeast. So actually, you have eight principle points,
you with me now? Between the North and the East there’ll be a Northeast point. Between the
South and the East will be a Southeast point. And these are the eight cardinal points. So on a
compass if you were to make a pie and then you break it up into eight different parts, this would
be an illustration of North, South, East and West, and then points in between them, North,
Northeast, South, Southeast, and in between the points of your major four. Is that evident there?
Rosetta: Yes.
Vince: Alright. Now. You have to know how to use a compass if you’re not going to get lost in
the woods. The basic thing is to learn how to read a compass. Your compass needle, you have
to know your compass. Some compasses have a blue point. Some have no point at all, have a
little dot of red on the end of it. And this red orientates itself to magnetic North. Alright now,
magnetic North is not true north. True North is a angle away. Now in the Northwest it can vary
anywhere from zero to 22 degrees. If you were in Cincinnati, Ohio, and that line where
Cincinnati, Ohio, goes through, if you draw a line up toward North, that’s true north and in
Cincinnati, Ohio, when you take your compass out, your compass needle points true north. But
in Montana it will not point a true North in the Northwest Region. But that is not any worry to
anyone here if the basic purpose is to stop you from getting lost in the woods and how do you do
this? Well, the first thing you should do is look at your compass and determine which point if it
is not clearly designated is north, or which one is rotating north. And you can do this by the fact
of taking a look at your compass and turning it and swinging it and the needle that constantly
goes or the point that constantly goes the same direction is the one that’s pointing true North,
magnetic North. Now magnetic North is just like if somebody would taken, has taken say, a
large body of ore and planted it in the Earth and this needle or this compass needle is swinging to
that, and that’s why it’s not true North. Magnetic North is totally different that true North and it
varies wherever you are on the Earth, so you must take this in consideration. But, we aren’t
going to navigate across any large water, we are not going to travel millions of miles, we are
probably going to hunt in a radius of maybe ten square miles and so we have to learn to use our
compass in a very short range. But you should know your compass first. Which one is pointing
true North, or excuse me, magnetic North. And know the true North exists, but when you go to
read your compass, you’re reading magnetic North, not true North. Okay, is that, you’re giving
me a, you’re frowning and all. What I’m saying is when you take your…
Ron: That blank look.
8
Vince: (Laughter) When you take your compass out, it’s pointing north, but it’s magnetic North
instead of true North. Does that confuse you?
Rosetta: Well, does that make a difference if I’m out in the woods? I have to say, gee compass,
are you magnetic North or true North?
Vince: Well, for a very small area that you’re going to cover in hunting, this is what this man’s
question was, how do we stop him from getting lost…
Rosetta: Yes.
Vince: No, it doesn’t. But if you were going to sail around the world or something, boy, you
better know that.
Rosetta: Oh.
Vince: And there is a variance that you must take into consideration in reading maps many
times, you should know that we are not on true North but on magnetic North when you set your
compass up and all.
Rosetta: Alright, Vince. Let’s see it as a hunter. He’s getting out of his car now and he’s
heading into the woods. What should he do first?
Vince: Alright. The first thing he should do is take a reading, and not with a compass, or when I
call this a reading, a reading with the eyesight. Now, I’ve never been lost. I’ve been confused
and know where to go.
Rosetta: I have been lost in Yellowstone Park in Norris Geyser Basin in the middle of winter in
February with a couple of Park Rangers and…
Vince: Who were supposed to know where…
Rosetta: Yes, and we were very lost.
Vince: Okay, now here’s what we do and these people should be experienced or anyone that
hunts.
Rosetta: We didn’t have a compass.
Vince: Well, you don’t always need a compass and I’ll show you that in a second, how you can
tell North, South, East and West without a compass. Okay, the first thing you should do when
you jump out of your car is take visual observation points. When I get out to hunt I look to my
right, my left, in front of me and in back of me. All the time and the most important is in back
because you are going forward, you must know what’s behind you. Okay? Because then you
equate things. Now, sometimes I take a little piece of paper, I scribble on it, high mountain, low
9
mountain to the right of it. Water drainage going what I think is south, and then I look at my
compass. So I’m saying, you draw a baseline. A baseline is a line from your right and left of
where you’re taking off and here’s how you do a baseline. You walk out a distance, I usually
walk maybe, 200 yards, 300 yards, and I take a twig and I bend the twig over and I face that twig
where I started. If I walk to my right, my twig is bent to the left. You see what I’m saying? I’m
making a line. I take these bushes and break these small twigs that I know that’s my baseline or
where I started. Now, if I’m in real tough country, I’m not going to always get back to the exact
same point as that I left. It’s impossible. But I’ll hit that baseline and I’ll see those twigs busted,
and if it goes to the left, the twig, I walk down to the left, if it goes to the right, I’m going to the
right of it coming back and I walk down to the right. You see what I’m saying? And I get to the
centralized point where I’ve been. Now, here’s what you do, here’s the essence. You take a
visual observation, you make this baseline. I have never had trouble when I have done this;
never had trouble. Many people that travel all the time in the backcountry, do not use a compass
or anything, they use familiar points or places like this where they know that they can key to that
and they’ll go back to where they started. All right, now. Let’s say that you drew your baseline.
You don’t know the country at all. You take your compass out and the compass is divided into
360 points. All right, zero isn’t on there, it goes from 1 to 360, so you won’t see zero on there,
360 and zero is the same thing, North, or magnetic North. So you set your, you turn your
compass to where the needle is pointing to North. Right? Then you look out as the compass is
pointing North, you look at the direction you want to go, and the direction that you see that
mountain over there that looks real good and has deer on the side of it or anything, you look with
binoculars, and then you take a look down at your compass over the top of it and this is called
setting your compass. You set your compass down someplace where it’s flat where the needle
can rotate free. Now there’s a precaution that should be made here. You shouldn’t have a large
piece of metal, like a knife or gun or anything, cause that will affect the magnetic North or the
movement of the compass to the magnetic North. If you put a gun real close to it or a large
object it will take it away from magnetic North. So when you set your compass down that’s
called setting the compass, you make sure it’s level and make sure the needle of the compass can
rotate freely. You set that then, or you turn it to true North, which is marked on a little dot below
your needle, North, South, East and West, and has this 360 degrees and then you put that needle
facing true North or N on the little compass chart underneath your needle. Then you look at the
mountain where you think you want to go and say that that reads 72 degrees. Now, how’d I get
that 72 degrees? I look at the mountain and then I look down and take a stick or something and
point that stick at the mountain and take it over top of the compass and here, I look down here at
72 degrees on my compass, with it pointing North, you understand what I’m saying? So I’m
going to walk in that direction at 72 degrees. Now, I walk for awhile, and I don’t walk in a
straight line, cause you can’t in backcountry, but you move around this way, that way. Now I
want to come back and I turn around after walking three or four hours, and I want to know how
in the world do I get back to where I started. If I started at 72 degrees, I add 180 degrees. I get
my compass out again, set it down on a stump, point it to true North. Then I started at 72
degrees but I’m going to have to a total reversal, I’m going to have to do 180 degrees, I’m going
to turn around the other way, see. You see what I’m saying? So you have 180 degrees plus 72.
Rosetta’s saying, yeah, yeah. (Laughter) 180 degrees plus 72, you add these two together, 180
plus 72 and you come out with 252 degrees. So when my compass is setting down there I look at
where 252 degrees appears and I walk in that direction. I will probably hit my baseline. You see
what I’m trying to say?
10
Rosetta: Oh, I’d get lost, I think, if I used a compass.
Ron: Vince, you would more or less then have to have a tall object, a mountain or something, to
keep walking toward.
Vince: Right. Now, in country, when are looking for something or hunting for something, you
pick points like that, everybody in God’s creation that hunts wants to get back, unless they have
the equipment to go with them and just get lost. And another thing, I have tried to get lost. I
took my wife one time, we just…
Rosetta: (Laughter.) Tried to loose your wife. Oh.
Vince: But we walked and walked and I said when we stopped I had no compass I said, I don’t
know for sure what is, where the car is. We might have to walk up or down the mountain. But
there’s a point of reference which I took, an old snag, when we left. And I said, we’ll head for
the old snag. Well, she says, the whole time she was saying, well maybe we won’t come back
here, we’re lost. We’ve been just walking all day. I said, you know we walked right to the car.
And because of that old snag and observation point. And so, yes, Ron, you should pick a place
to walk toward, but you will never walk a true direction and that’s why I say make a baseline 200
feet one way, 200 feet the other. And just pull, or snap a twig. Some fellows use blazes, but
that’s not good, that’s a mark on a tree. Because then you scar the trees and all. But a small
plant or shrub bent in that fashion and that’s tree marking or shrub marking. And a lot of fellows
in our new country do this. Now, I pick observation points as the prime things.
Ron: Scooter, go ahead, please.
Rosetta: Well, while Ron gets this caller on the air, I think Vince had better tell us, you were
going to tell us quickly something else.
Vince: I gotta tell you quickly this. If your reading is greater than 180 degrees, then you
subtract it on your way back. That is to say if your first reading is 72 degrees, you must add 180.
If your first reading is 260 degrees, you subtract 180, see. You see what I’m saying there? The
whole thing is based upon a total reversal, because if you’re facing one way and you turn and
face the other way, that’s 180 degrees. That’s all you’re doing, you’re compensating for making
a swing or a full turn around, opposite which way you’re going. That’s why you add or subtract
180 degrees. If it is greater than 180 degrees, you subtract it. If it is less than 180 degrees, you
add it. Okay? Now, one other thing. If you didn’t have a compass or anything like this and you
wanted to find north, this way is usually pretty fool proof, about 80-85 percent of the time it
works. You take your watch. You point your little hand, or the hour hand to the sun. Then the
distance between your hour hand and 12 mid…, 12 on your watch. That is to say if you pointed
your right now, this morning, if the sun were to my right in this particular case, I would point the
hand of my watch to my right and then I would look at the distance between the point of where
my 9 o’clock is to 12 and halfway between that point would be South. Now, that’s hard to
describe on the air. But you point the little hand to the sun and then rotate on around till you get
12 o’clock and then halfway between your little hand and 12 o’clock is South. Now, that’s
11
pretty hard to describe on the air, but you have to visualize. It works, you’ll get South. Then on
the other side, then, would be north. If you’re in the woods in the morning, do not have a watch
or anything, how do you orientate yourself, the sun rises in the East, okay. You look at the East
and then to your left, would be north. To your right would be south. To behind you, then, would
be west. See? Looking at the sun, rising. If it’s setting in the evening and you usually see the
sun if it’s cloudy, usually see it in the morning or evening. You turn around, you look then at the
sun in the Western direction and it’s just the reverse. This time, instead of being your right hand,
your left hand being north, would be south. You see what I’m saying here? These are hard to
explain on the air, but if you remember the rising sun in the East and your left hand would be
north, your right hand would be south. And then it’s just the reverse later on in the day. One
other way of telling it, and this is North, South, East and West, if you know the woods well,
certain plants grow on certain slopes. The South slope is usually open, the West slope is usually
open, and Southwest slopes are open. The North slope is very thick and dense, has a lot of moss
in the trees and everything on that. So you get orientation points that way. One other way, fast
again. If you, pick a star at night, any star you want. Get a long stick and a short stick. You line
these two sticks up. If the star rotates to the West, it is an eastern direction. If it rotates to the
east, it is a western direction. And these can be all explained, and there’s a good book out, and I
want to say this, it’s the good old Scout Handbook. If your son’s been a scout, or has been a
scout, or if you want a good little book to read to tell you North, South, East and West, and
anything like that, the good old Scout Handbook has an excellent thing. And that’s even a plug
for scouting there, too.
Rosetta: We have a call, Vince, let’s take it.
Ron: This is Scooter, go ahead, please. Oh, we lost her. Anyway she told me that all you have
to do is follow the stream down the hill.
Vince: No, no. Oh, that makes me shiver. You know, you know, you follow the stream down
the hill, mostly in most all streams there’s development all along them. Everybody believes that
the streams float south. They do not float south. The Missouri River floats in a Northeastern
direction. The Gallatin, the Madison, the Jefferson are floating North. So if you’re saying that
the stream is floating in a southern direction in Montana, you’re going to get lost. Okay,
following a stream south, or following it down, you follow the Flathead in the wrong area you’ll
end up in the Bob Marshall Wilderness, okay?
Rosetta: Mercy.
Vince: Do not think of following a stream down. You’ve got to know the country before you
start following down. You’re right when you say they’ll be development on the stream though.
I’m saying that. There’s always people developed along water and everything. But you better
watch where the stream moves. There are different drainages and I’ve been lost in a drainage
where I’ve followed the stream down knowing that I was wrong, but I had to walk over two
mountain ridges to get back where I started. And when you follow a stream and you’re lost it’s
always dense and thick down along the moisture of the stream and you panic more. I had a
girlfriend at one time got lost this way and thank goodness she used her head, she just stopped
for the night and built a big fire and everything, and she came out the following morning. We
12
were hunting. So all I’m saying to you is that you don’t go by that cardinal thing is south, the
stream flowing down is south. It is not south in Montana.
Ron: One thing, I do hesitate when I think I’m lost and that’s walking uphill over too many
ridges, Vince. I get tired fast that way.
Vince: Well, that panics people, see, and that’s the first thing they do, they panic, and that’s a
different thing and maybe someday we could get to that, what you do when you’re lost ‘cause
that’s awful important. Ninety percent of all the people that perish when being lost like that,
wouldn’t have to perish if they’d use their head and they panic and they start running ridges and
stuff like that and fatigue themselves and don’t have the food or anything. He’s right. That’s an
important factor. And if you’re not conditioned to being lost, I think being lost is fun, because
then I learn how to come back out again. I do not ever fear being lost. I fear the fact that if I’ve
told somebody I’ll be home at a certain time, which I’m never on time anyway, but if I’ll be
home at a certain time, I’m not there, so that bothers me, but I’m not worried about being lost.
Ron: Okay, we have a caller, go ahead please.
Caller: I just wanted to comment that it’s been really interesting and we always carry a compass
and I think everybody should and know how to use it, but I think Vince is right in this mainly
observation, especially here in Montana where you have mountains. It’s different if you’re out
in swamp country, you know, or level country in some of the other states. But here in Montana,
I’m desperately afraid of getting lost because I have no sense of direction and some people do,
you know, I know people who can walk away from a car, walk for hours and in a certain
direction and head right back to the car.
Ron: Right, right.
Caller: But I have no sense of direction and so I have to watch very carefully and I do this
looking backwards and citing in on, you know, the way mountains lay so that if I get mixed up
all I have to do is get up to a high enough point that I can see where things are and pick out those
mountains and find my way back in a general way in that manner. So I think that’s really
important and people shouldn’t just think, well, all I’ve got to do is carry a compass and I’m not
going to get lost, it’s a sense of direction, a really important thing is to look at things.
Ron: Right. Thank you.
Rosetta: I think this is true when you get into the big cities in the big parking lots, you know,
you can loose your car if you don’t know…
Vince: When you park someplace where there’s a lot of other cars, you look at the aisle, you
think of the aisle or you think of something like that. And what I’m saying is, she’s right, the
woman’s right, you could have a hundred compasses on you and without taking a baseline,
without taking an orientation, it takes time to read compasses. Now there’s some beautiful
compasses out, I don’t know how you could get lost. They have degrees in them, they float in a
liquid, alcohol usually. You always can drink the alcohol if you get… (Laughter) Anyway, you
13
can, they float in this alcohol, and they’re very accurate and you can take readings in regards to
true North, magnetic North, and you can come right back on the car. I do have a knowledge of
how these work. I’ve used a couple of them. But I feel that the general compass you can get for
two or three dollars, or the needle point compass this is called, and a general view of the contour
of the land, I don’t think anyone ever can get lost. I really don’t. And if you do get lost we can
talk about that at another time.
Rosetta: Good, Vince. We don’t have time today. You are always so knowledgeable. We have
a call though before you go, so maybe this is a question for you.
Ron: Scooter, go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. Vince spoke at a Scout dinner about a little survival kit in this little tiny container.
I’m sure he knows what I’m talking about. And if you’ve got room to carry a compass I know
you have room to carry this little snuff can or whatever it is that you use.
Ron: Oh, okay, thank you.
Vince: Yeah. Survival kits are excellent and they should be taken along with you and they’re
not too cumbersome or anything.
Rosetta: This will be our last call on this topic right now.
Ron: Last caller, go ahead please.
Caller: Yeah. I don’t understand all that hullabaloo about compass reading. All I do is take out
a dirty old deck of cards and start playing solitaire and before I know it somebody’s looking over
my shoulder and telling me which card to play and then I ask him how to get out of there.
(Laughter)
Ron: Okay, thank you.
Rosetta: Okay, now Vince has something…
(Laughter)
Vince: That man’s a smart man.
Rosetta: Well, that’s survival. Tell us what’s on your mind.
Vince: All right. Now tomorrow, excuse me, I don’t mean tomorrow. National Hunting and
Fishing Day is on the Fri…, Saturday, the 22nd. It’s been proclaimed by the Governor and I have
a display at the Capitol. There will be coffee and donuts and something to drink there and I’ve
got all different types of wildlife on display. I hope you all show up. I’ve got hunting and
fishing maps there to show you, answer some of your questions in regard to special permits if
14
you did or did not get them and I’ll have those there. And, so if you have some time and want to
bring the kids to see some ducks mountain goat and coyote and all, these are all live mounts and
they’re fun to look at and see. Please feel free to stop in between 10 and 2 at the Rotunda and
come in the front door of the Capitol. And tell the rest of your friends about it. I don’t want to
sit there all alone. I could be out there hunting. The next thing I would like to say is very
important to me and maybe it hits home more than anything. I had two, three things stolen this
past week that are worth probably near $3,000. They are the Fish and Game’s and therefore,
they are yours, too. I used them for displays and they were a grizzly hide and a black bear hide
and a bald eagle. I can identify the hides clearly. They have been stolen on Sunday night.
They’re worth considerable amount of money. I am looking for these hides and whoever stole
them, please bring them back. Leave them someplace because they’re for everybody. This way
you’ll take them home and lay them on the floor and they’re beautiful to see and all, but not
everyone will get a chance to see them. They broke through four locks to get to these hides.
They took only the hides and the bald eagle. Of all things, now, they are, I cherish them more
than anything. The black bear hide I looked for four years for a hide like that to show people
what big black bear are. I’ll never be able to replace the grizzly hide. If you want to return them
or you know somebody that’s got them, please give me a call. I’ll come and pick them up
wherever they are. Help me find these for everybody to see such beautiful animals and in turn it
helps protect them and understand these animals, for everybody to see, not just a few.
Rosetta: Okay, Vince. I know how deeply you feel about this and I hope that there is a response
and if they are afraid to call they could leave them someplace.
Vince: Right. Thank you for inviting me and maybe again we’ll come down and well talk
about after you’re being lost and what to do.
Rosetta: Oh. Good, Vince. And thank you. Always, terrific, terrific and we’ll talk to you again.
(Pause)
Rosetta: We’re in a very big hurry and we’ll be back right after this.
Rosetta: Here is the quick Scooter Scoop for you today. Josephine Heppner Auxiliary is
meeting September the 20th, that’s tomorrow, at 8 o’clock at the Home Federal Savings meeting
room. The introductory lecture on transcendental meditation is tomorrow night at 8 p.m. in the
Neighborhood Center. It is free and open to the public. Handcraft items by local Indians are
now on display in the children’s department at Helena Public Library. Articles for sale are
courtesy of the Helena Indian Alliance. The Helena Carroll Arts Council has established an
office in the Civic Center ballroom cloak room for the Electrum II festival. Any artists or
interested persons should contact Elaine Cooper at 442-1512. Electrum II planning meetings
will be held each Wednesday at the Plymouth Congregational Church at 8 p.m. People
interested in being Bluebird and Campfire Girl group leaders are invited to the training sessions
Wednesday and Thursday, today and tomorrow. Group leaders will learn about the new
programs here and how to present them. The Wednesday, the 19th meeting is for Bluebird
volunteers and the meeting Thursday, tomorrow, the 20th, is for Campfire volunteers. Both
training sessions will be held in Campfire Girls headquarters at 11 Placer at 7:30 p.m.
15
(Pause)
Rosetta: Mr. Joseph Daugherty has arrived and as I told you in the beginning, he is the incoming
President for the National Association of Realtors. And they’re meeting here, Montana realtors
are meeting here at the Colonial and there are lots of them around. And I hope that you will feel
free to call 442-6161 with your questions concerning buying a home, selling a home because Mr.
Daugherty will try to answer those questions for you. Welcome to Helena Mr. Daugherty.
Mr. Daugherty: Well, thank you. We’re very happy to be here.
Rosetta: Are you having a good time?
Mr. Daugherty: Well, we got in rather late last night. We haven’t seen too much of your city
yet, but we are certainly happy to be here. This is our first trip into Montana and Mrs. Daugherty
and I are looking forward to the hours that we’re going to spend here with the Montana realtors.
Rosetta: Where’s home for you?
Mr. Daugherty: Andover, Massachusetts, which is 25 miles north of Boston.
Rosetta: Well, well. You are a long way from home.
Mr. Daugherty: Yes, we’ve been on the road quite a while. We’ve come from the Maine
convention and the Utah convention.
Rosetta: That keeps you hopping. Well, we have questions for you and the first one, one of my
sponsors is the multi-list realtors of the Helena area. Multi-list, I’m sure you’re familiar with this
nationwide organization.
Mr. Daugherty: Well, most boards around the country have organized a multi-listing service.
It’s an excellent way for buyers and sellers because it gives the seller an opportunity to get
maximum exposure to the buying market and it saves an awful lot of time for the buyer when he
walks into a multiple listing office because that listing broker has listings from a wide area, from
other members of his board, and he’s able to provide a very wide range of selection of houses
and it saves the buyer from trooping from one office to another.
Rosetta: You just did a beautiful commercial. Thank you very much. (Laughter) That was a
Helena multi-list commercial for today. Thank you very much. Now let’s find out what’s
happening with money and buying houses. Money is the thing. They say money makes the
world go round and causes people to lose lots of sleep and people to have lots of fun and all this.
Interest is so high and the down payment on the house. These are the worries and they just flood
my mind and they’re flooding others so maybe you can just do a take off from there.
Mr. Daugherty: These are real worries. This is the third time now, since 1966, that the
government has actually selected the housing industry to take the full brunt of its effort to control
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inflation. We went through it in 1966, we went through it in the 1969-70 period. We have been
told this will not be as bad, but my personal judgment is that this is worse. I can’t recall a time
when I have seen the money market as difficult as it is right now. It’s practically impossible to
get mortgage financing. The banks in our area are completely dried up. My office is struggling
trying to place mortgages. The interest rate is beyond the capacity of the average person to cope
with it. And we have asked the Congress and the Administration, we ask them constantly, that
when we run into these inflationary periods, and when the government feels obligated to try to
enforce certain controls that will slow down a heated economy, we’ve asked that they not select
the housing industry as the whipping boy and make housing and the people who need housing
suffer the most in this period. You see, in the money market there are so many opportunities for
those who are investing to invest their money in other places than the mortgage lending
institutions and that means that the mortgage lending institutions are not receiving the deposits,
they don’t have the money available to loan, and when they do, the rates are just beyond
anything that we’ve seen. If you’re asking me when are we going to see relief, you know…
Rosetta: Yes. The outlook.
Mr. Daugherty: I don’t have a crystal ball. Some of our governmental people tell us that we
should see relief by the first of the year. I certainly hope so. This is really the worst money
crunch that we have seen.
Rosetta: Well what is the average person to do? Do you tell them to sit tight, well, they have to.
They’re literally forced into …
Mr. Daugherty: They don’t have any alternative. Interestingly enough, I was being interviewed
by a news reporter in Salt Lake City the day before yesterday and he introduced a personal note.
He said, I’m trying to buy a home for myself, and he said, I can’t find a lending institution that
will make the loan and even if I find one I don’t think I can afford it. So the problem was real
for him. The only advice we can give is for the people to contact their Congressional
representatives, their representatives in the House and the Senators, and ask them to use
whatever leverage they can to get the administration and the Federal Reserve people to change
the policy.
Rosetta: This is what I wondered. What pressures can you bring to bear, the National
Association of Realtors? What do you attempt to bring upon this situation?
Mr. Daugherty: Well, of course, our main office is in Chicago, but we do maintain a staff in
Washington, in our Washington office. We have a director of Governmental Affairs there and
we have many specialists on the staff who are in constant contact with HUD and with HUE and
Department of Justice and with Congressional and Senatorial committees. And we try to give
the best input we can through those channels in the interest of the public. You see, the 80
million home owners in this country really are not organized with any spokesman. We are
114,000 realtors and on January 1 we will add 400,000 associates. They’re the sales people in
our offices. That will give us a total membership in excess of half a million, which will be the
largest trade association in the United States. And we believe that as leaders of the industry that
we have a real serious obligation to speak in the interest of these homeowners, because as I say,
17
they’re not organized and they don’t have a lobby. And so what we are trying to do is bring
some sense into this money market and we don’t know exactly what decisions are going to be
made in Washington, they are now talking about providing some tax incentive to some of the
lending institutions so they will retain a sufficient amount of their deposits to be made available
for residential mortgages. Certainly something has got to be done in the structure of banks and
lending institutions and credit organizations so that we will have a guaranteed supply of
mortgage money so that the average citizen who has a right to own a house has an opportunity to
get a mortgage at a rate that he can afford to pay.
Rosetta: We’re talking with Mr. Joseph Daugherty, the incoming 1974 President of the National
Association of Realtors. We have a caller and a question on 442-6161 and we’re just going to
open it up for the next four minutes or so for that. Let’s take this call, Ron.
Ron: Yes, go ahead please.
Caller: Yes. I have to admit that I don’t quite understand all this business about interest rates in
the first place, but I wondered what in the first place drove the interest rates up so high and then
what has to happen to bring the home mortgage interest rates down. Does the interest rate paid
on savings and certificates and this kind of thing have to come down, or I just don’t understand
the financial business of the whole thing.
Ron: Okay, thank you for calling. That’ll have to be our last call.
Mr. Daugherty: Well the money market is a very complex subject and I think we have to try and
simply as we can to answer that question. What happened to the money that was in the local
savings institutions that prior to this crunch period you were able to go in and get a mortgage?
Now what happened was this. The interest rate on certificates, the interest rate paid by
government treasury bills, became so attractive that many of our citizens went right into the
savings institution where they had savings and they took that money out and they invested it in
the higher interest investments. When they did that they reduced the availability of your local
savings and loan or your local bank to make a loan to you. They didn’t have the money because
these banks operate under very rigid laws which state what percentage of their deposits they can
make available for mortgage lending. And in other words, what happened was the supply of
funds dried up. Well now if you slow down the supply of funds in any economy you have
supply and demand and if money is short it cost more and I don’t like to over simplify it but this
is exactly what has happened. Now how do we cure it? We’re going to have to cure it by
making these easy methods of investing in these other areas perhaps a little less attractive. You
see one of the big problems is the government itself.
Rosetta: Mr. Daugherty I wish we could have talked longer. You are knowledgeable and you
would have been a real service to the community, but we simply are out of time and that happens
sometimes in radio. Thank you very much for coming to Montana and for being on Scooter with
us today.
Mr. Daugherty: Thank you very much. I enjoyed it.
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Rosetta: Good. Now, the Golden Dolphin, that’s where you can shop for all those perking up
your house month. This is it. This is September and this is the month to perk it up and that’s the
place to go, the Golden Dolphin for doing it, located in the Capital Plaza Shopping Center. Do
so. Tomorrow I’m going to have one of those interviews with Mr. Ron Kennedy who’s vice
president of Pavey Company. We’re going to discuss the agricultural situation in Montana. He
was one of the gentlemen who spoke to the Montana Chamber of Commerce dinner last week
and I want you to meet him and it’s been a busy day and thanks for listening and we’ll see you
tomorrow.
(End of program)