X2.....sometimes pulling older plays out of cobwebs can really throw a defense and especially a youngercoordinator off. I remember Gruden remarking in 2011 that Harbaugh was using plays that he hadnt seen the 49ers run in 2 decades...where did THAT go?

Originally posted by ForThe_Niners:
You should post more often! Damn...great stuff!

X2.....sometimes pulling older plays out of cobwebs can really throw a defense and especially a youngercoordinator off. I remember Gruden remarking in 2011 that Harbaugh was using plays that he hadnt seen the 49ers run in 2 decades...where did THAT go?

Originally posted by ForThe_Niners:
You should post more often! Damn...great stuff!

X2.....sometimes pulling older plays out of cobwebs can really throw a defense and especially a youngercoordinator off. I remember Gruden remarking in 2011 that Harbaugh was using plays that he hadnt seen the 49ers run in 2 decades...where did THAT go?

Yes, the Bears game. f**king awesome it was

It is called bye bye Erickson, Nolan and Singletary. Hello Jim Harbaugh!

Thanks, I appreciate that. It's funny I lurked this site for about ten years before getting a name. The heartbreak of the 2011 NFC title game finally got me on board. However, I specifically remember following the Failed TO trade to ravens and eventual deal to philly on this site/forum.

Like many I would have loved for the WCO to never left us after mooch. As mentioned earlier I also believe we should be using kaep like young was used. More specially I really think what we were doing circa '98 would translate very well to today's league. The 1998 offense had all the main tenets of the 80's WCO but it incorporated more 3 and 4 wide sets and also used more I forms to bolster the run.

Honestly I just think we are too multiple since kaep took over. We just seem to start slow in every game, just look at the playoffs last year 17-0 down to ATL and 28-6 to Baltimore. They really need to get kaep started fast. Why not run a screens early to negate pass rush. I mean just get him some easy completions, thus far this year it just seems like every throw is a 20 yard stick throw to show off the gun. Hell throw a 6 yard slant, I know our guys aren't getting seperation but the way they are getting held might get a few PI calls(they sure like to flag us for the same thing) .

Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed, use "scheme" to help get these guys open. Roman has been running one or two WR's out in straight-line routes and simple curl routes making it incredibly easy for defenders to defend esp. when there is ZERO threat of one single deep ball (unless we are way behind). I wish people would go back to the first Rams game last year to see how Fischer used Danny Amendola (with one collar bone at the time). He was, basically, their ONLY weapon and we could not stop him. He moved him around all day long to create mismatches immediately off the LOS. The Vikings used to employ a similar set with Harvin, even lining him up in the backfield. Hey, even in our own history, we did similar things to get Rice the ball early and often. I challenge each and very fan in here to go to whomeam's video page and just watch the types of routes we run and ask yourself if these guys even have a chance to get open: http://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/174093-seattle-game-uploaded/

Then come back here with your own solutions!

I really think there are some old school WCO concepts that would be perfect for
This years team. They are Z-in, Texas and Q sprint option.

Z-in was a bill walsh staple play. Basically against Zone the flanker would run a hook, the TE would settle about 5 yards over center and the back would run to the flat. Against man the flankers hook became a deep in, TE route became a whip route and the back still occupied the flat. Basically this play encapsulated the Walsh offense settle into the zone and run away from man.

Texas concept is a cover 2 beater that sends the TE on a seam route and the back on the strong side runs an angle route. Lb takes seam away hit the back on the angle, conversely the lb takes the back the. Stick that seam route(kinda think kaep would excel at this throw given his arm strength). This concepts could also help against the qb spy's that kaep has gotten so far this year. Basically if the spy is too worried about kaep that should leave a shot to both the seam or angle route.

Finally q sprint option is probably the most iconic niner play of all time. "The catch " was its result but the beauty of it is that it gives the qb three options. U have a slot guy going to the flat off of a pick, the outside WR first tries to rub the defender so he slot is wide open, he then becomes the second target down the field. Finally the qb has the option to run. If run correctly it's almost impossible to stop. I would be willing to bet rice caught about 40 of these a year.

All these concepts could be packaged in current formation both under center and gun. However I would love to see these ran in traditionL forms (split, far ,near) just to give defenses something they haven't seen in 15 or so years. The great thing about these old concepts are the provide multiple options and in the case of Z-in they provide both a vertical and horizontal stretch that when ran correctly give great pass lanes.

Hello! After a comical start, we are getting some real solutions here! Much appreciated by all.

Aside from wanting a thread where fans can express their "solutions" to the problems (b/c you KNOW we've identified all the problems), I'm going to use this thread as a reference point to what our coaches ACTUALLY DO themselves this week, if anything at all.

I think we need to go back to basics primarily to take pressure off Kaepernick. Forget about the pistol and lets to back to having the QB take snaps under center. We need to get back to bread and butter and start running the ball and trying to control the clock. This is easy to implement.

The bigger change needs to be execution of quicker passing patterns and this is where Roman is dropping the ball. Not every pass pattern needs to be a 20 yarder!!!!!!!!!!!! Roman needs to start calling more screen plays, slant patterns and quick hitters. Kaep needs to trust his check down targets. Best to start small and expand later.

I predict we'll see much of this ^^^^ in the upcoming Rams game. I'd be SHOCKED if we don't make some changes very soon because our current offensive scheme isn't working.

As a nice reference point, I wanted to show you what having a real OC feels like. This is Indy's first series against us on their opening TD drive (disregard the 30 yards in 2 immediate penalties for the purposes of this).

1st down - I formation and 2 WR's split out right. 10 yard cushion by both Rogers & Nnamdi. 15+ yard completion to Heyward-Bey on a simple curl route, open by 7 yards on Rogers.
1st down - Single back set with 2 WR, 1 TE split left and 1 WR split right. RB motions out right (empty backfield). Quick out to the RB for 6.
2nd down - I formation. 2 WR's split left with 1 WR split right. Run inside for 8 yards.
1st down - Empty backfield. 2 WR's split left and right. TE split right from the spread. Crossing pattern from left to right isolating Heyward-Bey on Willis for 19 yards.
1st down and goal - Bunch formation, "nobody" split wide but 2 receivers split left and 2 right. Quick pass to Fleener (TE) to the 1 yard line. This is the exact same pass CK was intercepted on except here, Luck threw it before the break between Whitner and Willis.
2nd and goal @ the 1 - First touch by Richardson is a TD right off RG untouched.

I don't know if these plays are scripted or not but they looked precise, well balanced and kept the defense off balanced and created some easy mismatches by simply "scheming" well.

Originally posted by NCommand:
As a nice reference point, I wanted to show you what having a real OC feels like. This is Indy's first series against us on their opening TD drive (disregard the 30 yards in 2 immediate penalties for the purposes of this).

1st down - I formation and 2 WR's split out right. 10 yard cushion by both Rogers & Nnamdi. 15+ yard completion to Heyward-Bey on a simple curl route, open by 7 yards on Rogers.
1st down - Single back set with 2 WR, 1 TE split left and 1 WR split right. RB motions out right (empty backfield). Quick out to the RB for 6.
2nd down - I formation. 2 WR's split left with 1 WR split right. Run inside for 8 yards.
1st down - Empty backfield. 2 WR's split left and right. TE split right from the spread. Crossing pattern from left to right isolating Heyward-Bey on Willis for 19 yards.
1st down and goal - Bunch formation, "nobody" split wide but 2 receivers split left and 2 right. Quick pass to Fleener (TE) to the 1 yard line. This is the exact same pass CK was intercepted on except here, Luck threw it before the break between Whitner and Willis.
2nd and goal @ the 1 - first touch by Richardson is a TD right off RG untouched.

I don't know if these plays are scripted or not but they looked precise, well balanced and kept the defense off balanced and created some easy mismatches by simply "scheming" well.

Let me get this straight...you're suggesting they mix and match personnel by using different formations, keeping the defense off balance, and exploiting mismatches? Madness.

Sounds a lot like what we did in 2011 and 2012. What drives me crazy is that the Colts are running Harbaugh's Stanford offense. Hopefully Pep Hamilton just opened HarRoman's eyes.

Originally posted by NCommand:
As a nice reference point, I wanted to show you what having a real OC feels like. This is Indy's first series against us on their opening TD drive (disregard the 30 yards in 2 immediate penalties for the purposes of this).

1st down - I formation and 2 WR's split out right. 10 yard cushion by both Rogers & Nnamdi. 15+ yard completion to Heyward-Bey on a simple curl route, open by 7 yards on Rogers.
1st down - Single back set with 2 WR, 1 TE split left and 1 WR split right. RB motions out right (empty backfield). Quick out to the RB for 6.
2nd down - I formation. 2 WR's split left with 1 WR split right. Run inside for 8 yards.
1st down - Empty backfield. 2 WR's split left and right. TE split right from the spread. Crossing pattern from left to right isolating Heyward-Bey on Willis for 19 yards.
1st down and goal - Bunch formation, "nobody" split wide but 2 receivers split left and 2 right. Quick pass to Fleener (TE) to the 1 yard line. This is the exact same pass CK was intercepted on except here, Luck threw it before the break between Whitner and Willis.
2nd and goal @ the 1 - first touch by Richardson is a TD right off RG untouched.

I don't know if these plays are scripted or not but they looked precise, well balanced and kept the defense off balanced and created some easy mismatches by simply "scheming" well.

Let me get this straight...you're suggesting they mix and match personnel by using different formations, keeping the defense off balance, and exploiting mismatches? Madness.

Sounds a lot like what we did in 2011 and 2012. What drives me crazy is that the Colts are running Harbaugh's Stanford offense. Hopefully Pep Hamilton just opened HarRoman's eyes.

LMAO!!!! Yeah, I guess that IS what I'm saying. And just to show you how important scheme is, Heyward-Bey was the one who abused us on this drive. Let me repeat, Heyward-Bey, people!!!!

Let me get this straight...you're suggesting they mix and match personnel by using different formations, keeping the defense off balance, and exploiting mismatches? Madness.

Sounds a lot like what we did in 2011 and 2012. What drives me crazy is that the Colts are running Harbaugh's Stanford offense. Hopefully Pep Hamilton just opened HarRoman's eyes.

Not to get too much into a colt O lovefest, but I really like those shotgun counter runs. I can't remember which specific drives cause the whole game became one angry 8 minute colt drive to me. They just looked tweaked enough almost to say to fangio/harbaugh "we know, you know our counter game ...so here is just a little tweak to offset know defensive counter schemes"

Plain and simple that was us for a year and a half a d it really needs to make a return.

Originally posted by midrdan:
I think we should go 5 wide and run verticals the entire game. Have Kaep simply throw bombs 40-50 yards down field on every play. In Madden it's either a TD or interference. We would be unstoppable.

But seriously, we need to run verticals the entire game.

I'd love for them to line up in the shotgun and go 5 wide with Boldin, Moore, Williams, Patton and VD..................if nothing else it will force the defense to adjust for something they definitely wouldn't be expecting, anything is better than this s**t they've been calling lately.

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