Can I ask why it's not allowed, or why there is resistance to, the desire for someone to have their purchased products be made domestically, or nearer to P.O.P.?

Rapha haters are not hating on Rapha because they want to be green. Buying clothing from Switzerland, South America, or Italy is not necessarily any greener than buying clothing from China. It all depends on a wide variety of factors. You could purchase something manufactured in China that is actually "greener" than say something manufactured in Europe.

I would say that Rapha haters fall in to a few different categories: 1. Backlash to high quality marketing campaign. ( Similar to people who hate everything made by Apple because they have good marketing) 2. Outdated stereotypes due to the fact that many Rapha products are manufactured in China. (Asia = bad, Europe = good, etc which is complete BS)3. Bandwagon people who just like to hate on it because its popular. 4. Backlash to pricing. (which is usually tied to #2, because god forbid you spent money on something made in China) 5. People who don't like the minimalist design. (Some people seem to like wearing clothing that looks like a ski jacket from 1990 and claim its "technical," and there are many people who like the "PRO" look that is similar to a NASCAR racing suit.)

Maybe it's because owners of Rapha clothing indirectly place themselves in a socioeconomic category that some or many despise, presenting an appearance of elitism or snobbery...I'm sure there are many nice people who own Rapha clothing...

_________________"It never gets easier, you just go faster..."- Greg Lemond

Can I ask why it's not allowed, or why there is resistance to, the desire for someone to have their purchased products be made domestically, or nearer to P.O.P.?

Rapha haters are not hating on Rapha because they want to be green. Buying clothing from Switzerland, South America, or Italy is not necessarily any greener than buying clothing from China. It all depends on a wide variety of factors. You could purchase something manufactured in China that is actually "greener" than say something manufactured in Europe.

I would say that Rapha haters fall in to a few different categories: 1. Backlash to high quality marketing campaign. ( Similar to people who hate everything made by Apple because they have good marketing) 2. Outdated stereotypes due to the fact that many Rapha products are manufactured in China. (Asia = bad, Europe = good, etc which is complete BS)3. Bandwagon people who just like to hate on it because its popular. 4. Backlash to pricing. (which is usually tied to #2, because god forbid you spent money on something made in China) 5. People who don't like the minimalist design. (Some people seem to like wearing clothing that looks like a ski jacket from 1990 and claim its "technical," and there are many people who like the "PRO" look that is similar to a NASCAR racing suit.)

Fair enough. There may be infinite reasons why a theoretical person doesn't like a brand, but it's disingenuous for one to bring that assumption into a conversation and assume that this theoretical person fits into one of the infinite reasons they assume.

If someone doesn't want to give their full support to a brand that:

1. charges a hefty premium for products that are manufactured in a location where they are paying for heavily discounted labour, (or at least where value is so perverted that production labour is cents of the dollar of gross revenue generated)

2. ships their products, through all stages of the supply chain, tens of thousands of km's around the globe using subsidized petroleum to procure, manufacture and distribute said products. (When these systems have been shown to be less efficient and magnitudes more environmentally harmful than small scale, or localized systems of production and distribution)

and they want to criticize said brand for this, or look for alternative brands that don't do, do less, or are moving away from, those "criticisms", I think that's completely fair expression and critique of brand value/quality.

I personally cannot prove that Rapha fits into the above two categories (and I don't usually get involved in brand bashing on forums), but I also haven't seen Rapha show that they don't fit into those categories. So when I read others who chastise them for it.... I completely understand why.

I don't like that it's not made in countries where they can prove that the conditions aren't harsh/unfair. I really don't.

I cannot find another brand whose aesthetic and quality (yes, quality) approaches what Rapha does. I like the retro-influenced minimal look and Assos certainly doesn't do it. I've gotten pieces "Made in the UK" from Shutt and they are okay but not near as well thought out (and I have a set of bibs that was not put together correctly from them... the chamois is way off and the thickest part of it ends up on your junk with nothing on your ass at all). I have spent a pretty penny on Rapha gear and it has held up through the worst conditions with minimal wear. Perhaps it's a bit pricey, but I know that it's lasted.

Let me put it another way and explain what I mean.

When I got into cycling in my teens, there was lots of horrendous kit. Granted, though I'd been exposed through road cycling by my father in the eighties/early nineties, I was into mountain bikes first (on my own). This was the late 90s and it was a world dominated by contrast stitching, Primal jerseys, and taxi cab, maillot jaune colors on everything. Garish and gross.

Fast forward a few years when broken bones and mounting gear costs got me out of mountain biking and things were little better on the road side. Now I'd been raised with images of Merckx and my dad's box of vintage gear (a Peugeot jersey, wool shorts with the leather chamois, the kind that you wore suspenders with, etc), books on cycling and was always mesmerized by those images and that idea. Coppi in the Dolomites. Merckx in Mexico City. Hinault in the Giro (or sneering at Paris-Roubaix). I still remember going to see a crit race and sitting on my father's shoulders watching bobbing leather hairnets sweat up a steep hill. The closest I could get to this idea was a reproduction red and white Descente jersey, a Campy wool jersey (that I still own), etc. Everything else was bent on "modern" but it was a sort of chintzy modern that grated against my aesthetic.

I put up with it and when I finally had a little bit of money, I bought Castelli. There were not many other options. Capo had just started and hadn't made a dent in the US market. Assos was... still not to my taste. Louis Garneau will forever be fugly. Primal was still more concerned with jerseys that espoused shitty classic rock giants or mock tuxedo shirts (not to mention skulls, frogs on chainrings, etc) and so on.

Skip a few more years (many of them a bit lax on riding) and coming back into it, Rapha was clearly on their game. The style of their garments was much closer to the classic images without the classic drawbacks (every pair of "vintage shorts" in that old box were stretched beyond imagination... wool is not so good for shorts). The marketing surely helps, but if I'm not wearing club/race kit the only thing I like is Rapha. Especially in varying conditions. The plasticy/ultra-modern look of lots of kit just turns me off and my hats off to Rapha for their approach. A few people are just starting to follow in their wake but still are not at the same level.

That's why, despite my disagreement in some of their approach, I still like Rapha. It's not just branding, but if you understand my perspective, there really isn't anyone else in the same league. It's entirely subjective and I understand when people don't like it, but I think it's unfair to claim that love is all based on "branding".

I like the whole idea or perception that goes with Rapha's little movies which aren't about racing...more about just riding and the enjoyment of it. I just struggle with the fact it's made in China but priced very high...that creates a perception I just don't like.

Really comes down to three things for me...price, fit and looks.

Now the looks are good, fit is subjective as we're all different and the price blows IMO...

Maybe if I can just get over the Rapha stigma I'd be right.

_________________"It never gets easier, you just go faster..."- Greg Lemond

i dont have an issue with the price of rapha, or where it is made, or what it looks like. the thing that irritates me is the completely fabricated history of this brand and the way they are marketing which is to try and 'own' the 'culture of' cycling (see the rapha london cafe video...)

around here the people who buy rapha are not 'just loving riding their bike', they are wearing this stuff and judging other people not wearing rapha with this kind of smug sense of superiority, and the attitude that they are at the top of the food chain. they all seem to flock together in these little groups where every single one of them is wearing rapha. like you are in a special club of jerks. it really is bizarre and sad that grown men behave like this, these people seem incapable of laughing at the fact that they have become caricatures of typical smug roadie cyclists. its almost at the point where i wonder if they even like riding bikes at all?

and around here no it is not the minority who do this... i have owned a few rapha products but they have either been sold (amazing what you can get for used rapha knicks on ebay) or binned, i don't want to have anything to do with these little games

i dont have an issue with the price of rapha, or where it is made, or what it looks like. the thing that irritates me is the completely fabricated history of this brand and the way they are marketing which is to try and 'own' the 'culture of' cycling (see the rapha london cafe video...)

around here the people who buy rapha are not 'just loving riding their bike', they are wearing this stuff and judging other people not wearing rapha with this kind of smug sense of superiority, and the attitude that they are at the top of the food chain. they all seem to flock together in these little groups where every single one of them is wearing rapha. like you are in a special club of jerks. it really is bizarre and sad that grown men behave like this, these people seem incapable of laughing at the fact that they have become caricatures of typical smug roadie cyclists. its almost at the point where i wonder if they even like riding bikes at all?

and around here no it is not the minority who do this... i have owned a few rapha products but they have either been sold (amazing what you can get for used rapha knicks on ebay) or binned, i don't want to have anything to do with these little games

Well that's rubbish and a damn shame. I am sorry you've had to deal with that but mostly that's rather unfortunate for them... they should ride more and quit being such cunts.

i dont have an issue with the price of rapha, or where it is made, or what it looks like. the thing that irritates me is the completely fabricated history of this brand and the way they are marketing which is to try and 'own' the 'culture of' cycling (see the rapha london cafe video...)

around here the people who buy rapha are not 'just loving riding their bike', they are wearing this stuff and judging other people not wearing rapha with this kind of smug sense of superiority, and the attitude that they are at the top of the food chain. they all seem to flock together in these little groups where every single one of them is wearing rapha. like you are in a special club of jerks. it really is bizarre and sad that grown men behave like this, these people seem incapable of laughing at the fact that they have become caricatures of typical smug roadie cyclists. its almost at the point where i wonder if they even like riding bikes at all?

and around here no it is not the minority who do this... i have owned a few rapha products but they have either been sold (amazing what you can get for used rapha knicks on ebay) or binned, i don't want to have anything to do with these little games

That's just horse shit mate.. The clothes your cycle in or even the, bike you ride has zero bearing on the legs you bring to any cycling pissing contest I've participated in or witnessed. Road cycling is all about who gets to the top of the hill first regardless of how much money they have invested in the 'right' gear.

Take Melbourne for instance... Replace the moustache's in the London cafe Rapha videos with beards and the rapha kit with a nice Fred perry flannel shirt, road bikes with fixed bear bicycles.. Same shit different town..

If you don't like Rapha or what they stand for then don't buy it... It's not rocket science

Maybe it's because owners of Rapha clothing indirectly place themselves in a socioeconomic category that some or many despise, presenting an appearance of elitism or snobbery...I'm sure there are many nice people who own Rapha clothing...

Or maybe it's the observer that places the rider wearing Rapha into that echelon?

I don't own any Rapha, but find the the emotional over-reaction of many to be rather perplexing (amusing, perhaps?); it's akin to getting mad at a picture or screaming at a painting. It's just an image, your emotional response does not sharpen nor dull its presence or impact. It'll just make you hoarse.

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