"I don't like X, they should remove it."
"I like X, they should keep it."
"They should replace X with Y."
"Anybody that likes X is dumb. Y is better."
"Why don't they include both X and Y."
"Yeah, everybody can be happy then!"
"But I don't like X, they should remove it."
"X really needs to be replaced with Y."
"But they can include both X and Y."
"But I don't like X, they need to remove it."
"Remove X, I don't like it."
Repeat.
Obstinance?

56790678 wrote:

Until you've had an in-law tell you your choice of game was stupid, and just Warcraft on paper, and dumbed down for dumber players who can't handle a real RPG, you haven't lived.
You haven't lived.

56902498 wrote:

Lady and gentlemen.... I present to you the Edition War without Contrition, the War of the Web, the Mighty Match-up!
We're using standard edition war rules. No posts of substance. Do not read the other person's posts with comprehension. Make frequent comparison to video games, MMOs, and CCGs. Use the words "fallacy" and "straw man", incorrectly and often. Passive aggressiveness gets you extra points and asking misleading and inflammatory questions is mandatory. If you're getting tired, just declare victory and leave the thread. Wait for the buzzer... and....
One, two, three, four, I declare Edition War
Five, six, seven eight, I use the web to
Go!

57062508 wrote:

D&D should not return to the days of blindfolding the DM and players. No tips on encounter power? No mention of expected party roles? No true meaning of level due to different level charts or tiered classes? Please, let's not sacrifice clear, helpful rules guidelines in favour of catering to the delicate sensibilities of the few who have problems with the ascetics of anything other than what they are familiar with.

56760448 wrote:

Just a quick note on the MMORPG as an insult comparison...
MMORPGs, raking in money by the dumptruck full. Many options, tons of fans across many audiences, massive resources allocated to development.
TTRPGs, dying product. Squeaking out an existence that relys on low cost. Fans fit primarily into a few small demographics. R&D budgets small, often rushed to market and patched after deployment.
You're not really making much of an argument when you compare something to a MMORPG and assume people think that means bad. Lets face it, they make the money, have the audience and the budget. We here on this board are fans of TTRPGs but lets not try to pretend none of us play MMORPGs.

90571711 wrote:

Adding options at the system level is good.
Adding options at the table level is hard.
Removing options at the system level is bad.
Removing options at the table level is easy.
This is not complicated.

57333888 wrote:

112760109 wrote:

56902838 wrote:

Something like Tactical Shift is more magical than martial healing.

Telling someone to move over a few feet is magical now? :|
I weep for this generation.

Given the laziness and morbid obsesity amongst D&Ders, being able to convince someone to get on their feet, do some heavy exercise, and use their words to make them be healthier must seem magical.

158710691 wrote:

D&D definitely improves mental health;
Just as long as you stay away from these forums ;)

Thematically, artificier is probably the best fit out of the box since, like Batman, they're all about being crazy-prepared with gadgets. It also doesn't hurt that the Int and Wis focused builds lend to being a good detectives.

Bards are also a great option because they get a lot of trained skills and, with a small feat investment, can get sizable bonuses to their untrained skills. Which works since not only is Batman crazy-prepared, he's also crazy good at pretty much everything. Also, the Jynx Shot at-will makes for a great bat-o-rang attack.

In general, physical skills may be a bit of an issue since most leader builds (I think all?) lack dex as a key attribute (which hinders Acrobatics and Stealth), and often either lack strength as a key attribute or athletics as a key skills. However, training (via background), the skill focus feat, skill powers, and a choice item or two can help considerably in making up for any deficiencies without too large of an investment.

Bear in mind Batman's alignment too. It can be all over the place at times, but 'Chaotic Good' may be the best bet (I'm into comics too but he may have a specific Batman in mind).

Batman would have to put points into almost everything, having an immense knowledge on any number of things, with a genius IQ, great strength and dexterity, etc. It sounds like a Bard may be the best choice, a human one since you can get two feats (one in improving all your untrained skills, and another for specializing in one particular (probably Intimidate* or Stealth), just a suggestion.

→ On the subject of Batman characters, I'm new to the game and have a Lawful Evil character in mind that would work similar to Batman's methods (deception, influence, and power I mean, not his combat). However, I hear Lawful Evil can conflict with most groups, and I also wanted to hear if my character backstory makes sense or if it's stupid, but I don't want to clutter the forums up with another thread. Can anyone send me a private message, and take it from there?

Bear in mind Batman's alignment too. It can be all over the place at times, but 'Chaotic Good' may be the best bet (I'm into comics too but he may have a specific Batman in mind).

Batman would have to put points into almost everything, having an immense knowledge on any number of things, with a genius IQ, great strength and dexterity, etc. It sounds like a Bard may be the best choice, a human one since you can get two feats (one in improving all your untrained skills, and another for specializing in one particular (probably Intimidate* or Stealth), just a suggestion.

→ On the subject of Batman characters, I'm new to the game and have a Lawful Evil character in mind that would work similar to Batman's methods (deception, influence, and power I mean, not his combat). However, I hear Lawful Evil can conflict with most groups, and I also wanted to hear if my character backstory makes sense or if it's stupid, but I don't want to clutter the forums up with another thread. Can anyone send me a private message, and take it from there?

Or just play without a leader.the need for a "balanced party" is a total myth. you don't need all the roles.I run a game where everyone is playing a striker. They kill everything.Haven't managed to kill one of them yet, and they're at 13th level.

A Dex/Cha, Skald Bard, using a bow (batarang). High Dex, so it's good at stealth. High Cha, so it's good at intimidation. Bard of all trades feat to be good at everything else. Alchemist theme for the gadgets.

A Dex/Cha, Skald Bard, using a bow (batarang). High Dex, so it's good at stealth. High Cha, so it's good at intimidation. Bard of all trades feat to be good at everything else. Alchemist theme for the gadgets.

innuendo aside... some sort of acrobatic rogue or fighter type should work.

I've seen lots of discussion about 'roles' in the party. They seem artificial. If you want to be a leader, just give the party an example worth following and encourage them to push themselves because you believe in them. Pick some diplomacy skills. Don't steal the glory. Be willing to share the burden, shoulder the responsibility and listen to the needs of the people who you would lead. Then sleep in a cave. Boom! Leader. Batman-Flavored Leader.

A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.
WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
When in doubt, take action.... that's generally the best course. Even Sun Tsu knew that, and he didn't have internets.

A Dex/Cha, Skald Bard, using a bow (batarang). High Dex, so it's good at stealth. High Cha, so it's good at intimidation. Bard of all trades feat to be good at everything else. Alchemist theme for the gadgets.

A bow? They want to be Batman, not Green Arrow.

Shuriken, Boomerangs... Always available aren't they?

What about the Bat-bow?

A rogue with a bowl of slop can be a controller.
WIZARD PC: Can I substitute Celestial Roc Guano for my fireball spells?
DM: Awesome. Yes.
When in doubt, take action.... that's generally the best course. Even Sun Tsu knew that, and he didn't have internets.

Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here
If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here
Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here

A Dex/Cha, Skald Bard, using a bow (batarang). High Dex, so it's good at stealth. High Cha, so it's good at intimidation. Bard of all trades feat to be good at everything else. Alchemist theme for the gadgets.