F4J give men in general, and fathers in particular, a bad name. They want to shut down Mumsnet because they don't like that it provides a wonderful support network for women and men who think F4J are idiots.

It's almost laughable, really. I say almost, as I actually feel a bit nauseated that somebody allowed their child's image to be used in this way when the 'cause' it is being used for is such a load of bollocks. Gotta love F4J's skill at blame shifting, so much more convenient to claim that there are fatherless children purely because of evil women (and MN) than the absent fathers themselves. What exactly is the purpose of this horrid ad except for piling hatred upon mothers?

Wasn't that originally an advert placed in a couple of 'newspapers' for Mother's Day 2012? I'm sure I remember giggling at it's oafishness then. Beware though, that F4J has some sort of Google alert spidey sense about anyone discussing them, so wait out for either the Matt O'Connor or his wife to come along and tell us all off for being men hating witches.

The advert above is a little sensationalist of course but I think its simple message is a pretty true representation of a great deal of mumsnet responses. The fact that LTB is a go to response says it all really, even if it is hidden behind the facade of a joke. I wouldn't say that it is untrue that many mumsnetters hate men in general, obviously not their DP, DS etc well not all of the time but if there is a problem with society its almost always linked back to men on this site.

Please don't give that FB more attention. It was set up as the result of the actions of some very silly boys, which was dealt with back in November. They have lifted the image via google as it says we hate babies/ children to them, I doubt they looked much further than that.

The last thing we want is to highlight a quiet facebook page to F4J when it appears mostly to be read by children and teens who are easily influenced.

if there is a problem with society its almost always linked back to men on this site

In a critical social analysis (of which feminism is one approach), problems in society tend to be linked back to the group of people who held the power to shape society into its current form, and who hold the power to change it now, if they wanted to.

Who, as a group, would you say holds a majority of the power to make an actual difference in the law, the economy, the way that business operates and the way the media reports things to us?

It's not personal. Lots of people do seem to take it personally, but that's because they can't (or can't be bothered to, or can but are unwilling to admit that they can) grasp the analysis.

Feminists are concerned with gender, so when you divide society up along those lines, it's mostly the male gender that has the power. Marxist analysis, to give another example, is interested in social class, and when society is divided up this way, people with privilege are those that own the means of production.

Noticing the structural disadvantage of a group to which you belong is vexing. This is where the <insert group of choice> hates <insert group of choice> comes from, I think.

Climbingthewalls12 - I would disagree. MN is very clear in its almost site-wide lack of tolerance for abusive behaviour in men. Women are encouraged to LTB, possibly more often than is healthy, yes. Though in those threads, there is nearly always a very serious problem in the relationship that needs to be urgently addressed.

HOWEVER... except in very clear cases of actual physical, verbal or emotional abuse, I have never seen MN give the advice to "LTB ^and make sure he is never allowed anywhere near his children again^".

There is an important difference there. Encouraging women not to put up with crap from their partners has no connection whatsoever to men not seeing their children. Even if the relationship does break down irretrievably and she does LTB, the MN standard is that men should continue to take on 50% of the parental responsibilities.

Yes, I really hate men I need to tell DP, DS1, 2 and 3 that I hate them. Because, from past behaviour, they may have assumed that I love them...

I don't want to draw attention to that post though. The 13-17 age group is apparently the ones who have liked it most. Lets not gt the man hating ideas into their heads too, if they haven't thought of it already.

I think it is more true that "mn", insofar as it exists as some sort of entity expects men to pay their way, see the home as their equal responsibility and do their fair share, be an involved and responsible parent, treat their partner with respect, consideration and love.

That these lets be honest fairly basic expectations are not met by so many and that verbalising these expectations or having these expectations means that you hate men really says more about those who claim it does than they think.

It is not unreasonable or man hating to demand respect, consideration, love and the equal sharing of everything involving in being a family unit.

Those who choose to interpret it as such are saying that they dont want a man to be that.