I write about beer professionally, and it's pretty clear that this isn't just happening in Germany. In Ontario, at least, it has the good grace to hide behind government mandates for minimum pricing on discount brands.

FTA:This information would then be passed onto smaller brewers who would then too have to raise prices in order to keep up with the competition

I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

Pheonixfyre:FTA:This information would then be passed onto smaller brewers who would then too have to raise prices in order to keep up with the competition

I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

SlothB77:While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

SlothB77:Pheonixfyre: FTA:This information would then be passed onto smaller brewers who would then too have to raise prices in order to keep up with the competition

I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

Raharu:SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

Pheonixfyre:FTA:This information would then be passed onto smaller brewers who would then too have to raise prices in order to keep up with the competition

I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

Yeah....

Maybe the big players have other levers they can pull or something. fark with the little guys hops supplier? Further collude with distributors to keep the cheaper products off the shelf? Hard to say.

ChubbyTiger:Raharu: SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

ChubbyTiger:Raharu: SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

This is true. I was talking more about slothys Undying worship of Ayn Rand and the invisible hand.

HotWingConspiracy:ChubbyTiger: Raharu: SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

Germans take their beer seriously. They have laws about what is & isn't allowed in a product for it to be considered legit beer (well probably Lager more than 'beer'); you break em and they will slap you stupid. You think Brits are bad when separated from their pint o' pale? You ain't seen nothing until you've seen a German throwing a hissy fit that his pint isn't perfect.

Hobbess:And yet in German restaurants Beer is still cheaper by volume than bottled water. Maybe they are colluding on that too!

Nope. We have a law here in .de that in restaurants at least one beverage has to be cheaper than the cheapest alcoholic beverage. In 99.9% that's bottled water. Many pub owners just don't care ... same price for e.g. 0.2 l water and 0.2 l beer.

wintergreen744:I know this can't be true, because laissez-faire ideologues have assured me that collusion between sellers to impede competition isn't possible. There's always too much incentive for one seller to cheat to gain market share, so it never happens.

Who cares what happens in practice? In theory, seller collusion just can't work.

Pheonixfyre:I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

Maybe the larger brewers who have a bigger market share would for at time take in more profit and use those profits to expand their distribution network and push out the smaller brewers?

Saints_Gambit:I write about beer professionally, and it's pretty clear that this isn't just happening in Germany. In Ontario, at least, it has the good grace to hide behind government mandates for minimum pricing on discount brands.

HotWingConspiracy:ChubbyTiger: Raharu: SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

Don't they need to adhere to their purity law to sell there?

You know who else had laws about what was or wasn't considered pure in Germany?

Vaneshi:Germans take their beer seriously. They have laws about what is & isn't allowed in a product for it to be considered legit beer (well probably Lager more than 'beer'); you break em and they will slap you stupid. You think Brits are bad when separated from their pint o' pale? You ain't seen nothing until you've seen a German throwing a hissy fit that his pint isn't perfect.

I remember German bartenders pouring out beer that was poured perfectly. What a waste! Last time I went over I took a mixed twelver from a local brewery to share with the Germs I was working with. They went apeshiat over the oatmeal and vanilla porters I took.

Dammmmmmit anyway. How dare they do this. I can get Öttinger beer at the beverage shop for 35 cents. Wonder what it cost before the gouging commenced?Most beers do run in the price of 75 cents to one euro out of the shops. In a restaurtant the same amt of beer will cost you 3.20 euros. (Half liter)

wardlyone:Vaneshi: Germans take their beer seriously. They have laws about what is & isn't allowed in a product for it to be considered legit beer (well probably Lager more than 'beer'); you break em and they will slap you stupid. You think Brits are bad when separated from their pint o' pale? You ain't seen nothing until you've seen a German throwing a hissy fit that his pint isn't perfect.

I remember German bartenders pouring out beer that was poured perfectly. What a waste! Last time I went over I took a mixed twelver from a local brewery to share with the Germs I was working with. They went apeshiat over the oatmeal and vanilla porters I took.

If this article is correct, then I'm not surprised about them going nuts for the beers you imported. Apparently the combination of the tradition of the Reinheitsgebot and the Vorläufiges Deutsches Biergesetz (Provisional Beer Laws, the current German law governing what beer can be made with) have stifled the creativity of German brewers. The Reinheitsgebot is no longer law because the E.U. ruled it to be an impermissible barrier to trade in 1987, but many German brewers still adhere to it voluntarily. The Provisional Beer Laws were passed in 1993 as an E.U. compliant replacement for the Reinheitsgebot. They allow more ingredients to be used, but it's still pretty restrictive.

Pheonixfyre:FTA:This information would then be passed onto smaller brewers who would then too have to raise prices in order to keep up with the competition

I don't recall this from my economics class, maybe I slept through it. Why would the smaller brewers have to raise their prices to keep up with the competition? Why couldn't they just leave their prices lower and thus attract more business than the bigger brewers?

Maybe this has to do with the percentage of the price hike the supermarket earns. They might not have a huge incentive to sell the cheapest beers if their profit is to small.

SlothB77:While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

In a word..... no. American craft beers are stupid expensive. German premium pils go for c.a. EUR 13 a crate. Wheat beers same price. US craft beers are usually sold in six packs at $8-10 a pop. That's way more expensive. Also, German brewers supply what German palates want. Yes it's mostly a mono-culture with little experimentation. But the quality is highly consistent. Germans won't go for the American arms race in hoppiness either.

Keep in mind, the Germans don't even like Belgian beer. They sure as heck won't go for ultra hoppy IPAs.

HotWingConspiracy:ChubbyTiger: Raharu: SlothB77: While they were busy doing that, american beer quality passed them. The invisible hand of the free market is gonna bite them when cheaper, much higher quality american beer competes against their overpriced water.

/ not talking about bud or miller or coors

Just as I would expect from the man who considers Ayn Rand FUN.

There are plenty of American brewers that could compete in Germany right now. Most, however, aren't made in sufficient quantity.

Don't they need to adhere to their purity law to sell there?

The purity law no longer exists, its successor does limit what can be called beer if it is made in germany, but imported beer does not have to follow the rules. You can buy American Budweiser (renamed Anheuser-Busch B because Czech Budweiser has the name there) there and MGD is for sale all over the place.