No...as we saw at CoR, if Mao misses her jumps, her TES is severely impacted, dropping her into 5th out of medal contention and out of the GPF. You say that rank can be determined by very little score difference, and that PCS is the determining factor. So you're saying the TES for both skaters is nearly identical, no? In that case, PCS SHOULD be the determining factor.

In short, by saying the PCS is the determining factor in a win, you're basing the assumption that the TES among the 2 skaters are identical. ie. if Leonova & Mao tie in the TES (which clearly wasn't the case yesterday).

I don't think you understand what I wrote. I did say that in order to win, Mao does have to get her jumps right; however, giving her high PCS whether she messes up the program or not gives her a huge relief. In other words, she is guaranteed to have an advantage over others who has the pressure to perform clean to receive high PCS. You keep saying that TES and PCS factors are irrelevant, which means, even if Mao messed up 2 jumps let's say, she is easily capable of winning over other skaters who performed clean because of her high PCS. At cup of russia, Mao messed up so badly that receiving PCS 19 points higher than her TES seemed irrelevant, but that does not mean that she was clearly favored over others. I don't understand why you can't see the simple logic that it is unfair to receive high score when the skater does not perform well. Whether Mao had a hiccup or not, admit it, IT WAS A TERRIBLE performance, I don't understand why you keep saying that she deserved that high PCS when she looked like she didn't even have the will to finish the whole performance.

Also, I brought up world 2008 because so many people dragged Yuna into this, and then criticize her for receiving high PCS after her clean performance. We all know that world 2008 champion was determined by 1 point difference. PCS can determine the ranks, and when you have both amazing performances by two incredible skaters, why should one receive PCS lower than the other? Everyone knows that Yuna is well capable of receiving a high PCS score, and also many people here in the forum criticize yuna for receiving high PCS that she does not "deserve." Nevertheless, when you look at 2008 world, Yuna's FS' TES was 64.82, and PCS was 58.56 after she singled her lutz. In comparison, Mao's TES was 61.89, but her PCS was 60.57, after she fell on 3A. Can't you see what receiving high PCS can do affect the ranks, and I feel uncomfortable that Mao almost always receives PCS higher than her TES, when others DO NOT.

And I guess that makes me uncomfortable, because to my eyes, Miki, Alissa, Ashley deserved more at Russia, but it also showed what more can be done with these scores...

Well Leonova has a nice smile and charming personality, but her skating is nothing to swoon about. The polish isn't there, it WILL be there by 2014 but still, flat. Now as for Rachael Flatt (who i find extremely non-thrilling and just plain out flat) has like zero speed (sorry Rachael!) and just no charisma. Whatsoever.

Now both these ladies are workhorses so I'm sure they wil improve by the end of this season or next. Flatt needs more speed, style, speed, better lines, speed, better posture, speed if she wants to be World Champion. And also not to be so boring. (sorry Rachael!)

I still dont understand why you drag Rachel into this. Of course she needs to improve on many aspects of her skating, but what we discuss here is not HER inflated PCS. She was not crowned World Champion...

Any way, no matter how much charisma (if any), charm and polish Mao has, it is not the GENERAL capacities that are judged, but the actual performance. In Moscow Mao did not show her musicality and charm, simply because she looked scared, she did not skate to the music, she did not shine. All her skating skills to me are lost in such performance. And this is what should be judged. But it was not.
Leonova, instead - she might not be polished skater, yet she has tones of charisma, and you cannot deny that. She showed much more attitude in her skating than Mao did. I like Mao a lot, and so do you, but what is different between me and you is that you are obviously biased.

I don't know. I was telling my mother how bad terrible Mao's performance was, so she finally watched it last night.

And she was like it's not nearly as bad as you were saying, I was expecting her to fall all over the place. And I actually think my mom was making a fair point here.. Mao's PCS were down for her performance in TEB.

What happened with Mao's PCS is disgusting and shameful. SHAMEFUL. Same with Yu-na's inflation last week

You cannot compare Yu-na's scores and Mao's scores. Yu-na gave two wonderful performances, and really had only one hiccup. Her PCS for the short were deserved and while I thought her long PCS were high, you have to figure in that Mao got 60 PCS for a performance that was much shakier.

Besides Yu-na went last after all of the rest of the competitors, and out performed them. So she was going to win regardless.

Can't we say BOTH Mao's and Yu-Na's PCS may have been inflated, and leave it at that?

It's not always either/or, people! And contrary to what some may think, score inflation/PCS padding exists in other disciplines as well (e.g. Savchenko/Szolkowy at TEB).....sure, it's not fair but it's not a problem exclusive to Mao or Yu-Na.

Can't we say BOTH Mao's and Yu-Na's PCS may have been inflated, and leave it at that?

It's not always either/or, people! And contrary to what some may think, score inflation/PCS padding exists in other disciplines as well (e.g. Savchenko/Szolkowy at TEB).....sure, it's not fair but it's not a problem exclusive to Mao or Yu-Na.

See? Everything would have been all said and done had Tiger Woods won.

Seriously stop with this nonsense.
What's the name of this thread? huh?
Neither Mao nor Yuna will benefit from this madness.
Nope, it even makes the neutral fans turn their backs on them..and that would be entirely purely YOURS fault got it?
You guys are killing your own beloved skaters, does that says enough?
I'm not saying every post about Mao and Yuna is irrational.. just some posts which seems obviously enough to me that is trying to bash the others.. didn't even at least to try to put some thoughts about the actual program which IS the name of this thread(LADIES'S LP!! LOOK!!)

Miss the old days when I hadn't signed up

Last edited by Tango_D_R; 10-26-2009 at 11:15 AM.
Reason: why do u ask?

ashely--did a bit better than i expected and like--however they still should have downgraded her first triple/double.
but she has cleaned up her jumps. priscilla is doing a good job with her jumps.
she needs to show and exhibit more emotion in her skating and maybe jump a bit higher. but she keeps improving she will be one to watch out for at n nationals.

ashely--did a bit better than i expected and like--however they still should have downgraded her first triple/double.
but she has cleaned up her jumps. .

That first triple flip was definitely IJS CLEAN - nothing to downgrade there. The second trip flip was borderline. It was reviewed by the tech panel and Wager is not at a point where she gets benefit of the doubt on jump rotation so it was downgraded. I know you dislike her, Nagasu, and Flatt and to you, Zhang is the only decent skater the US has who is being held down by the politcal machine that is US Figure Skating, but come on! Wagner GOT THE JOB DONE

Can't we say BOTH Mao's and Yu-Na's PCS may have been inflated, and leave it at that?

It's not always either/or, people! And contrary to what some may think, score inflation/PCS padding exists in other disciplines as well (e.g. Savchenko/Szolkowy at TEB).....sure, it's not fair but it's not a problem exclusive to Mao or Yu-Na.

Thank you! ITA.

Let's be honest: the only people here who keep arguing back and forth about Mao's PCS and bringing in Yu-Na's scores into the bickering are Yu-Na and Mao ubers. (To be even more honest: Korean and Japanese fans. There, I said it!)

Can you guys just create another forum to take your annoying, endless catfights and stop clogging up a perfectly nice forum like GS? Seriously! Either get over it or take it somewhere else. It's beyone annoying!

Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.

Yes, she deserved the downgrade, but the penalty for downgraded jumps is still too severe. Her landings were clean. If she had rotated slightly further, but then double-footed the landing, fallen out of the landing, and put both her hands down on the ice...that would have scored higher.