[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:if I can touch you I can kick you. If you know how to kick right you can kick a person without a problem, where you target is entirely up to you. When I extend my lead arm and touch whoever there is with it I can kick them.[/QUOTE]

Well, I've always said that we have the baddest motherf*ckers walking the earth right here on this little ol' forum!

So this doesn't apply to YOU muay Thai -- just to all the MORTALS walking around.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:Its a very easy thing to do and shouldnt be thought of as difficult. [/QUOTE]

Sure......(there's a foot of space between you and the next person. Add to that, tables, chairs, etc., and it's "easy to do")

Certainly Muay Thai, it's easy for PLASTIC MAN!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MuayThai:Its understandable why people chose not to do it... when a person is proficient at kicking then there are no worries about doing it. Obviously you think when and where you will hit but thats with everything.[/QUOTE]

Sorry bro, picking one foot off the ground is just not as safe as leaving them ON the ground. This is not going to change just because someone is skilled in kicking! NO way, shape or form.

I am not arguing against kicking overall, but in the frentic "what is" of assault & battery, I prefer for myself and those I teach to leave their feet on the ground. The last thing you want to do is be looking up at the ceiling. That's generally what happens when people (except for the immortals on THIS forum) start throwing kicks in real fights.

You're not going to change my opinion bro. If you want to debate this, we can until the stars FALL man.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JKogas: Well, I've always said that we have the baddest motherf*ckers walking the earth right here on this little ol' forum!

So this doesn't apply to YOU muay Thai -- just to all the MORTALS walking around.[/QUOTE]

How hard is to undertsand that I am neither trying to make myself out to be the Baddest Mofo around... thats laughable!

I know that a man who knows how to kick well can do it from within arms reach! I think many "kickers" will agree with me.

[QUOTE]Sure......(there's a foot of space between you and the next person. Add to that, tables, chairs, etc., and it's "easy to do")

Certainly Muay Thai, it's easy for PLASTIC MAN![/QUOTE]

erm... ok, did I not say "Obviously you think when and where you will hit but thats with everything." and I think you meant Rubber man.

I aint going to try and kick a man when my leg will obviously bounce of a table or crash into a pole... I think you know as much as I do that kicking has its place in selfdefense and it is far from a weak tool. And just to clarify, you can kick quite easily with little space between you and your opponent. Quite easily. Your ignorance in kicking is shining John just as my ignorance in ground fighting shone brightly some time ago.

[QUOTE]Sorry bro, picking one foot off the ground is just not as safe as leaving them ON the ground. This is not going to change just because someone is skilled in kicking! NO way, shape or form.[/QUOTE]

So you teach your boys not to kick? they have absolutely no conditiong in the legs for kicking? You cant feel kicking unless you kick, your shins will be raw your thighs will feel the pain quite sharply unless you take kicks. I think you are not getting the whole idea, when and how to kick is just as important as kicking.

If I am going to kick someone I will so damn obvioulsy think before I do, when the situation tells me Im better not kicking then I wont but when I feel for one second I can whip out a nice thigh kick or kidney shot then I am doing it and the guy without the knowledge of how painful these kicks can be, he is going to continue trying for a few seconds before he gives up with pain... ...does that make sense, when the "situation" tells me that its ok to kick then I will kick and the guy who doesnt know about my kick coming his way is not going to like it one bit when my kick lands on a part of his body which he needs to keep himself moving - the legs!

...how do I know this? Because I have done it and know that it works. I kick you hard on the thigh, it takes a few moments, brief seconds for the pain to register, you carry on for a few breif moments... your leg begins to feel that pain tremedously and your leg gives up! adrenalin or not it will give up! If it doesnt happen with the first initial strike the second will almost always do it unless you are accustomed to kicking, the funny thing is in a fight ring or not, when a man feels pain all concentration goes to that area, he doesnt want to be kicked there again I can tell you, thoughts race, the pain is something to be felt before you can critique the usefulness of a kick, trust me on that. I could parylise your leg with one kick John and you'd not be walking for a week and I could do that kick from arms lenght away from you. I myself have been there and been hobbling around... ANY man who has taken a thigh kick will agree, until you have felt it and expeienced the sheer amount of damage ONE thigh kick can do then you dont know what its like to be hurt by a kick. I know what its like to be hurt by a kick and a punch, out of the two I'll take the punch thank you.http://members.aol.com/Thaiboxing2000/ <--- read down how Maurice Smith used kicking in NHB.

Theres a nerve runing through your leg and if you land a nice kick on that (which to be honest is just as risky as punching in regards to accuracy) Your leg is giving up unless you can take that kick and theres only one way to develop the conditioning required to withstand those type of kicks, by kicking and being kicked and knowing what its like to crumble under extreme pain and that is not an exaggeration.

Kideny shot kick, done this and winded. Again it takes a few seconds for the winded reaction to kick in but when it does it usually ends the fight. Boxers for some reason tend to punch, hmm... why is that?

guys trained in fighting usually know to look out for other things flying at them so with these guys it tends to be a little more difficult to land certain shots, any shots be it kick punch or fart. But with the inexpereinced and inept its a funny site to see when they punch and you whip a KICK into their kidney. First reaction is like a deep grunt, then you know its just a matter of moments before the reaction finally kicks in, one bang and maybe follow up with a few punches and he's going down....

....fighting is fighting. If you can do it and the opening is there then take it.

Kicking is a very feasable tool in street defense. Some folks can kick like lightening some cant kick for dogs poo.

One foot on or not it is still a wonderfull weapon and one I will never neglect. I train hard at my kicking ability, A lot of work has gone into developing my kicking power and speed, it odes not come easy and you cannot expect to get good at kicking without putting in the hard work but when you do develop that kick it really is something else.

[QUOTE]The first time an opponent lands a hard Thai kick on your legs, you will get a wake up call more painful than shin conditioning. Mentally tell yourself that this is the initiation process. In time your shins will be properly conditioned. There are ointments that may alleviate some of the pain. Use them as needed. But understand that no oitment will make the process painless[/QUOTE]

If you train to kick, then kick, if you train to punch, then punch, if you train for both, use both. Kicking is only as effective as the kicker, same with punches. The only time a kick should leave the kicker looking up at the ceiling is when they are point fighting, and training to lean their body back in order to avoid taking a point. Some one who kicks in combat, not sport, will kick with their weight, leaning in if anything, a well placed stomp kick is simply an exagerated step. driving all of your force momentum, and weight into and through the target. Back to the JKD topic, read Bruce Lee's Fighting Technique. Every page has something about the effectiveness of hard, fast, low kicks. and 90% of the picutres are of him Kicking people in the knee. Seems like he believed in kicks too, didn't seem to throw him off balance.

I study a system that is very similar to JKD and holds many of the same principals.....if it works for you, use it....We do not limit ourselves to a style.....we have no style....your body type is not my body type...I need to find what works for me, not what works for you.....I need to find what is true for me

One of the things that I have noticed, is that every one tries to push their truth onto others..I love muay thai, its a great sport and can be very effective......but ultimately, what we learn today is a sport!!!The low kick in muay thai is a fundamental technique....and I'll say that it is an effective one....however, the person you are kicking in the ring has "agreed" to fight using muay thai rules...they have agreed to the "space cushion" that we associate with ring sports......they have agreed to use the "stick and move" principal....not everyone in the street will agree to these rules....

Even while in the Thai clinch.....why would I allow myself to "trade" knees and elbows...when I can poke my thumb through my opponents eye (this goes for ground grappling as well)......this is clearly not legal in the ring.....but we are not specifically talking about the ring....The Thai grapple is also the perfect position to have a judo type shoot performed on the grappler.....a sport mentality can be a problem at times....

Kicking is only a physical fragment of martial arts......some arts are more street effective than others.It depends on what you are after.....sure, you can action a jumping spinning kick in the street if you like....but there is a high degree of risk associated with this technique.....many street effective systems don't bother teaching high risk manoeuvres like this one .....for obvious reasons.....

Also.....in this age of court battles.....how will you as a martial artist, convince a jury that you HAD to kick your non martial artist assailant in the head (causing damage) for self defence.....Hhhmmmm.....food for thought??!!

I study a system that is very similar to JKD and holds many of the same principals.....if it works for you, use it....We do not limit ourselves to a style.....we have no style....your body type is not my body type...I need to find what works for me, not what works for you.....I need to find what is true for me[/QUOTE]

hmm... good points but this ideology is the fundamentals of fighting. I am a kicker, clinch/grappler another person from the same gym is more a puncher, that is style.

[QUOTE]One of the things that I have noticed, is that every one tries to push their truth onto others..[/QUOTE]

true but fighgting is fighting no matter what and there are rules to fighting inside or outside the ring.

[QUOTE]I love muay thai, its a great sport and can be very effective......but ultimately, what we learn today is a sport!!![/QUOTE]

Modern Muay Thai that we witness in a ring is not that old, 80 years or so. A good Muay teacher will be able to teach you the Art form Muay, i.e. Muay Thai - Muay Chao Chuerk - Muay Man Mudh - Muen changad cheng chok. Then ontop of that you have what is known as Pahuyuth, used in the same sense as Kung-Fu, Karate, Bando etc. Muay Thai is only a fraction of what Thailand has to offer, it isnot a martial art but comes from a Martial Art, Muay Thai (Boran) was a way to fight safely without too many deaths.

[QUOTE]The low kick in muay thai is a fundamental technique....and I'll say that it is an effective one....however, the person you are kicking in the ring has "agreed" to fight using muay thai rules...they have agreed to the "space cushion" that we associate with ring sports......they have agreed to use the "stick and move" principal....not everyone in the street will agree to these rules....[/QUOTE]

good points, again I recommend that you watch some fights where the two fighters dont agree to use the stick and move principal, the reason people actualy do trade is because:

1 - one fighting knows that he must not charge unless he knows he can.

2 - usually the other knows he is fighting another who also knows not to charge so they chose to tactically fight.

3 - they know its a sport they are competing in with rounds.

[QUOTE]Even while in the Thai clinch.....why would I allow myself to "trade" knees and elbows...when I can poke my thumb through my opponents eye (this goes for ground grappling as well)......this is clearly not legal in the ring.....but we are not specifically talking about the ring....The Thai grapple is also the perfect position to have a judo type shoot performed on the grappler.....a sport mentality can be a problem at times....[/QUOTE]

again true with certain points, Thai clinch comes from the battle fields. Eye gouging, biting and all forms of nasty little things are in Muay. Again, the fighter with more fight experience andbetter training will always have the upper hand in almost all fights.

[QUOTE]Kicking is only a physical fragment of martial arts......some arts are more street effective than others.[/QUOTE]

Muay Thai is not a martial art, wasnt intended to be either, it is a form of fighting inside a regulated ring where two people can test each others fighting skills inside clinch and using strikes. The Martial Art of Thailand is combat effective although there are not many elephants running around our streets there are still many techniques which are very effective outside a regulated arena.

[QUOTE]It depends on what you are after.....sure, you can action a jumping spinning kick in the street if you like....but there is a high degree of risk associated with this technique.....many street effective systems don't bother teaching high risk manoeuvres like this one .....for obvious reasons.....[/QUOTE]

If you want to learn how to fight FAST then in my opinion Thaiboxing, Boxing, MMA, Koyokishun(sp), FCKickboxing... any style of fighting that has you actively sparring and competing regularly will be more effective. For example, when I train Thaiboxing but leave out the important parts like "good" pad feeding, sparring and sparring drills (clinch grapple also) and competing I'll be left with a class where I do warm ups, strecthing and fitness training. I will be wearing Muay Thai shorts etc, making some movements that i see in Muay Thai fights and what not.

ok now on the other hand training consists of all of the above but with the added important parts, i.e. the good padfeeding, the sparring etc etc.

one guy from one gym and one from the other, stick em anywhere in the world except under water and my money goes on the guy coming from the gym where sparring, good pad feeding etc is taught.

I have used Muay Thai outside the ring and walked away quite ok. In fact I didnt even need to use any other technique other than elbow and knee it was that effective.

"it was that effective"

what was that effective?

the conditioning, the training, the fight training, the competition fighting where I gained experience.

You can take any fighting system and add to it the training methods used in Muay Thai gyms and I can guarantee the boys being trained will benifit quite a bit.

I see Silat boys in our gym sometimes on Saturday mornings, a couple of us in one room and they are in the next room. Just the way they train not teh system. They hear us puffing and panting and thumps and bangs of people being thrown to the floor etc, a few crys of aginy when bone connects bone by accident, swear words because things get quite frantic... sweat n blood and hard bloody work!

The silat boys must think we're absolutely nuts. I've peaked through a little hole between the door and wall to see them calmly going through what looks like a Tai Chi dance but sitting on the ground. Theres no sweat, people could be wearing jackets and they'd still be cold. In my opinion the 3 of us could probably take on the whole silat class! (I dont mean to sound arrogant)

I rarely hear em work hard.

Now the same system but make em work hard like we do and the "street effective" Silat that they do will now become really dangerous, as it sits they do not focus on fight training and when it comes to fight time the lack of expeirence in a stressful and pressuring situation will be their downfall, eye gouges or biting, it doesnt matter, they will not be able to cope with the sudden release of adrenalin and the whole change, both mentally and phyisical, the body goes through at time of fight.

I think you make some good points....even though we have strayed from the original topic a bit

You mentioned that at your club, you have fellow students that have adapted different "styles"....specifically that you yourself prefer to kick and that your fellow student prefers to punch......(or at least, that was my interpretation) this is closer to the philosophy of JKD that the philosophy of Muay Thai.Especially considering that when the powers that be forced boxing gloves onto the Thai's, they dropped their hand skills in silent protest.....This is the truth that I was talking about....your truth, is not your fellow students truth....it's good to see that your class has adopted this philosophy......because not many schools do !!

In my humble opinion.....it is very dangerous to believe that kickboxing, muay thai, and even boxing for that matter....are forms of self defence......yes, they may be used to protect yourself....but against who???I think your perception of the silat class is not correct (in my humble opinion)..

I'll probably regret this...but....sparring is not real !!!! When was the last time you saw a street fight last more than 15 seconds?? The nature of sparring can often be....You have a go....I have a go.....I make contact, my opponent makes contact again...and this goes on til the end of the "round".....This is not True.....I would not like any street fight that I was in to be like this....I would much prefer.......My assailant has a go....and I end it right NOW.

The pad work that is done in Muay Thai classes is much more beneficial than the sparring aspect......why I hear you ask.....glad you asked [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/wink.gif[/IMG]When we hit pads....we are doing so in a full contact environment...our distancing changes....we follow through with our strikes....there is no concept of protecting our partner because they are safe....and hard strikes are usually encouraged (relevant to body size of course)....This programs your response and set up muscle memory....full contact muscle memory.

If all you ever practice is touch contact sparring.....you will program your response for the wrong distancing....when we experience an adrenal dump....our body reverts to what it knows best and if that is touch contact sparring, we are in for a painful ride.

I think you are right in saying that Muay Thai is fast to learn....there are only really a handful of techniques and you can become proficient in learning them quickly....I think this is a strong point of muay thai....but also in the equation is the fact that you are learning a modified sport form of muay thai with western boxing principals mixed in....like "stick and move"...I think we should all be conscious that this can actually be a negative in a street fight....people do not spar on the street....(unless both parties agree to do so)...have you ever sparred under handicapped rules...if we asked on person to spar using muay thai rules and asked the other to aim for a takedown ....what do we think would happen....my guess is a take down...we see this all the time in the UFC...thai boxers come up against greco roman wrestlers...it doesn't matter how much the thai boxer wants to remain standing....there is going to be a takedown!!!!!

Thai boxing is fantastic to watch and a beautiful art from....but I'll have to concur that it's not the be all and end all....especially on the street (my humble opinion)And sparring for that matter is not the only way to learn fighting skill....Question......how long can you be a proficient muay thai boxer? This form of fighting is really for the fanatically fit and dare I say.....a younger age group!!! Yes there has been reports of thai boxers still fighting into their 50's.....but these are exceptional cases I think...What about the average 50 year old...maybe carring an injury....maybe not a flexible and he was before....maybe carrying a few extra kilos.....is muay thai or kicking head height their truth..(just to bring it back on track for a sec)...

Another point...Commando's and SAS train for war....they train hard....the DO NOT spar!!!!!

[QUOTE]Muai Thai is so individual that there are exactly as manystyles as there are fighters[/QUOTE]

Muay Thai has clinch grappling that is (as I have recently found out) practically the same as Greco Roman wrestling but th eonly difference is that in Muay Thai you are taught to strike in clinch using knees, elbows and in some aspect the head! If you see a Thaiboxer who cannot standup clinch the I am sorry to say he knows only 50% of what Muay Thai is. I have had this arguement loads of times but the only real way to settle it is to have a clinch with me or someone trained fully in Muay Thai. As I have said 50% strikes 50% standing grappling.

[QUOTE]but I'll have to concur that it's not the be all and end all....especially on the street (my humble opinion)[/QUOTE]

Muay Thai boxing and even boxing alone is plenty in order to defend yourself in the street. The training and actual expeirence of fighting is what is important. How have I defended myself on the street using Muay Thai, which may I add, is only a ring sport? It is not the be all and end all, I am not saying that, you are reading very wrong or it is my bad grammar. Thaiboxing is a ring sport which comes from a battlefield fighting system. A good Thaiboxing teacher will be able to teach you both. However you do not need to use more than a punch knee elbow or grappling to win any fight where there are no weapons. Tell me what else you need.

[QUOTE]You mentioned that at your club, you have fellow students that have adapted different "styles"....specifically that you yourself prefer to kick and that your fellow student prefers to punch......(or at least, that was my interpretation) this is closer to the philosophy of JKD that the philosophy of Muay Thai.[/QUOTE]

I wasnt thinking JKD but the way you put it seems as tho JKD came BEFORE Muay Thai, well... if JKD is the child of Bruce Lee then Muay Thai (Muay Burma, Muay Cambodia, Muay Laos, Silat etc) has been around a lot longer than he was so "styles" (or no fixed style)has been around a lot longer than you think because this is the way WE have always trained, my trainers, my trainers trainers etc etc... every fighter has his own unique style of fighting and a good trainer will help develop that that is why in a Muay Thai class everyone does different again that is why the best way for Muay Thai to be taught is one-on-one tuition. Sorry to offend or insult but where I come from and with what I train this JKD philosophy seem nothing new.

[QUOTE]but also in the equation is the fact that you are learning a modified sport form of muay thai with western boxing principals mixed in....like "stick and move"...I think we should all be conscious that this can actually be a negative in a street fight....people do not spar on the street....(unless both parties agree to do so)...have you ever sparred under handicapped rules...[/QUOTE]

Ok firstly we, nor boxers or any full contact fighters for that matter, do not spar in a fight. Sparring is HIGHLY important to develop reflex action and timing, without sparring then its a long journey.

[QUOTE]I think you are right in saying that Muay Thai is fast to learn....there are only really a handful of techniques and you can become proficient in learning them quickly....I think this is a strong point of muay thai....[/QUOTE]http://www.muaythai.com

Yep theres a only a handful of techniques in Muay Thai. The reason why Muay Thai is easy to learn is not beacuse there's "apparently" only a hadnful of techniques, its because each technique is stripped down to become as simple as it can become, it is trained in a manner so that when you come to actual fighting you will have a little experience behind you to be able to deliver that technique. Simplicity is the key to Muay Thai. Dude what is your expeirence in Muay Thai? thanks for answering.

by the way, the techniques only represent what striking techniques can be found in Muay Thai - only 50% of what Muay Thai is.

[QUOTE]if we asked on person to spar using muay thai rules and asked the other to aim for a takedown ....[/QUOTE]

Ok... are we talking authentic Muay Thai or the 50% kind that most gyms seem to be producing. with me adding takedowns is ok, no problem, I havnt cross trained but there are as I have said quite a lot of takedowns and standing grappling in Muay Thai - I am afraid your ignorance in Muay Thai is showing. You probably know only 50% of what I do so you should really have no opinion on the matter until you experience full OUR standing grappling first hand.

[QUOTE]what do we think would happen....my guess is a take down...we see this all the time in the UFC...thai boxers come up against greco roman wrestlers...it doesn't matter how much the thai boxer wants to remain standing....there is going to be a takedown!!!!![/QUOTE]

Most western Thaiboxing gyms, not all but its quite a high number, Panya Kraitus once mentioned about the standard of Muay Thai being taught in many countries was very low. It comes as no suprise when I see, and I have done this to many Muay Thai students my self and quite easily, guys training in Muay Thai being thrown around and controlled. Randy Couture uses Thai clinch and Burmese also Greco. Thai Burmese and Greco are very similar. do some research. In fact Now many MMA schools are taking Thai and Greco clinch, the schools who are lucky enough to have had good tuition in Thai standup clinch (which is an art initself) will benifit.

I think you must understand, if I take a mixed martial artist and this MMA has neglected a part of training, i.e. graound grappling and I put him against some with ground grappling... who would win? Think of a Thaiboxer who cant clinch grapple as a Thaiboxer who trains in 50% of what Thaiboxing is.

Understand?

UFC fighters, or the ones who enter the ring using Thaiboxing always seem to surprise me, why is that? well because I see a guy using certain techniques from Thaiboxing but I dont see, majority of times, a Thaiboxer. Most people assume Thaiboxing to be strike strike strike... it is not and I am quite confident in saying this, it is 50% strike and 50% standing grapple.

Again I am setting your facts straight. I know that Muay Thai is not the be all and end all but I do know that it works on the street, whether you chose to agree or not [IMG]http://www.fightingarts.com/forums/ubb/biggrin.gif[/IMG] it doesnt take away the fact that a proficient Thaiboxer or boxer will do quite ok on the dreaded street.

as for the silat guys, yes I am quite sure they are neglecting an area of training which qill help them progress at fighting.

YOU NEED SPARRING!!!

[QUOTE]Question......how long can you be a proficient muay thai boxer? This form of fighting is really for the fanatically fit and dare I say.....a younger age group!!! Yes there has been reports of thai boxers still fighting into their 50's.....but these are exceptional cases I think...What about the average 50 year old...maybe carring an injury....maybe not a flexible and he was before....maybe carrying a few extra kilos.....is muay thai or kicking head height their truth..(just to bring it back on track for a sec)...[/QUOTE]

How old are you?

How long is a piece of string? Sandy Holt is 41 and still proficient in Thaiboxing, master Sken is 50 and still VERY proficient in Thaiboxing... I am 28 and feel MUCH stronger now than when I was 20.

Dude, the average 50 year old male is not out on the town, the average 50 year old is not having to defend himself... in fact, in reality neither is the majority of the worlds population! This argument is a dead one. You clearly have no understanding of Thai fighting arts, I am sorry to say that mate... I also see in your profile that you live in Melbourne, I've been twice to Australia and funnily enough both times there I was in fights. The standard of Muay Thai in Sydney is kind of ok, you know its hard for me to click out of this when I have trained in authentic Muay Thai, you know what I mean? its hard for me to go in reverse when I have experienced what it really is.

I see you also train in MMA... I assume you're a 50% man when it comes to Thaiboxing.

Both fighting "systems" are very very much geared towards each individual fighters STYLE of fighting. Pahuyuth is the entire fighting system from Thailand, Bando is teh entire fighting system from Burma, both with ground fighting and weapons. JKD philosophy seems to be fundamental of these systems... but yet these systems have been around a lot longer than JKD!

I will not be surprised if you havent heard of one or both of these systems.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Wolf:Another point...Commando's and SAS train for war....they train hard....the DO NOT spar!!!!![/QUOTE]

haha, Commando's and SAS do spar dude. What do you think hand to hand drills are? what do you think they just go all out with each other. Dont be stupid, no one wants to be hurt in training. Theres a time for sparring and a time for pressure testing.

And anyway, what do SAS and Commando's have to with Muay Thai and JKD philosophy? hahaha.

And anyway i forgot what this thread is about so I seemed to have hijacked it....

You did'nt completely hijack the thread.You commented on the ability to abandon style and use what works for you being a part of Muay Thai that has been around for a long time. Well, i agree. The idea of abandoning style, using what works and the like have been present in fighting forever. It is my honest opinion that anyone who has ever used a Martial Art for it's original purpose, Martial Combat, had to adopt this philosophy or get killed. In the early centuries, when there were wars going on everywhere, and guns had nothing to do with them, the soldiers would use what worked to get themselves home alive. It goes all the way back to Roman Times. The primary battles that Rome lost were against those who had no style. The Romans were very strict in their formations and movements, against another, less organized group, this intimidation factor was what helped them win, but once there patterns were known, and they failed to adapt, they started to lose. JKD just brought the idea into the limelight. Think about it, traditional forms oriented Kung Fu, being used against any other style is not very effective because the practitioner is stuck in patterns, blocking and punching at a set pace and order, as soon as the enemy notices the pattern, as long as they can adaot, the fight is over with the form fighter dead. Remeber, the Martial Arts were designed to kill, not subdue, not win points. The only way to survive in any situation, not just fighting, is the ability to adapt.