From my understanding PE is affected by our Haste and Crit but not mastery, since EM is on a 1.5 min CD you can pretty much line it up with each PE drop (Im assuming here that you can probably drop PE somewhere between 3 to 4 times depending on fight duration ofcourse in the new raid) So you are buffing yourself as well as your Elemental. Echo is definently a better single target DPS talent overall but I dont see a point in taking it if you dont go with EB, I might be wrong though.

Right but that limits our burst potential aside from lava burst in a perfect world the moment you're dropping your fire ele on CD is exactly when burst is required. Other wise you're lowering your dps sitting on your fire ele for how ever long you need to wait. Nothing wrong with doing an EM + PE build its just very clunky to deal with and it might be fun to mess with in normal raids but I don't really see a place for it in heroic progression raiding which is where i'm coming from

ALSO: If you have a build focused around PE you'd want to gear for haste right since Elemental's aren't effected by mastery? Well the more haste you have the more useless haste cds/ trinkets become since once you reach that 1 sec GCD you cant go any lower meaning every haste point after that is wasted and could be somewhere else. That's part of the reason EM is so bad right now. Also meaning if you geared for mastery because of getting EM all that mastery becomes a wasted stat for elementals anyways.---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 05:09 AM ----------

Originally Posted by Shauren

There is also this 2H caster mace Invocation of the Dawn which probably won't even be considered, given it's complete lack of sockets

What I would do for a 2h caster mace that isn't terribly itemized! Who am I kidding I hate the staff I use as it is cant wait to go back to MH Shield

I don't get it, with that ilvl bis gear it'll be very hard to keep hit cap with all that spirit gear. So Why is everyone suggesting Spirit maces with spirit shields when there is haste/mastery dagger and Haste/crit offhand? or a staff without hit/spirit.

I don't get it, with that ilvl bis gear it'll be very hard to keep hit cap with all that spirit gear. So Why is everyone suggesting Spirit maces with spirit shields when there is haste/mastery dagger and Haste/crit offhand? or a staff without hit/spirit.

Well thanks to reforging it'll all depend on the other spirit we get from gear, It might be worth it to reforge a huge chunk of spirit from lets say Leggings of the Violent Gale into haste so we make up the spirit we're missing with a smaller amount from say a weapon and or shield to get us closer to 15%. It may very well end up being that our offsets (since our tier set doesnt have much spirit) will have way to much spirit and the math with reforging might prove it would be best to use say the dagger with no spirit insted. We're just taking guesstimates at what it could be before an official list is out from the math wizards :P

BiS is bound to the stats and their distribution on the item itself. A higher ilvl version of the same item is just the "better BiS" item.

Basically this.

Thunderforged won't change the itemization of an item. Once you have multiple TF gear, you may have to change 1 or 2 reforges which is very minimal. Other than that, Thunderforged is just a direct upgrade without having to change any gear based on what you gained.

Right but that limits our burst potential aside from lava burst in a perfect world the moment you're dropping your fire ele on CD is exactly when burst is required. Other wise you're lowering your dps sitting on your fire ele for how ever long you need to wait. Nothing wrong with doing an EM + PE build its just very clunky to deal with and it might be fun to mess with in normal raids but I don't really see a place for it in heroic progression raiding which is where i'm coming from [COLOR="red"]

ALSO: If you have a build focused around PE you'd want to gear for haste right since Elemental's aren't effected by mastery? Well the more haste you have the more useless haste cds/ trinkets become since once you reach that 1 sec GCD you cant go any lower meaning every haste point after that is wasted and could be somewhere else. That's part of the reason EM is so bad right now. Also meaning if you geared for mastery because of getting EM all that mastery becomes a wasted stat for elementals anyways.

hmm I see your point there, I also come come from 25 man HC progression and Echo + EB always came through for me in all encounters, the only fight I opted to go Echo + PE is on Sha since I dont get to cast that many EBs in p2 with all the CL spam.

Regarding the too much spirit concern Im pretty sure we'll end up with many non spirit items as the most optimal given how Thunderforged items will increase stats, wont be surprised to see ele shamans hit 60% mastery or close to it in full BiS Thunderforged items

To be honest, talk of BiS gear is too early. I still have to work out which T4/6 talents are best (or if there's a difference), consider the possibility of the soft haste cap (50%) with the increased number of haste buffs out there, and then do some experimentation with trinkets. The only way we can really discard an item from consideration is if the Int budget is lower than other items in a similar slot, or has lots of hit/spirit.

To be honest, talk of BiS gear is too early. I still have to work out which T4/6 talents are best (or if there's a difference), consider the possibility of the soft haste cap (50%) with the increased number of haste buffs out there, and then do some experimentation with trinkets. The only way we can really discard an item from consideration is if the Int budget is lower than other items in a similar slot, or has lots of hit/spirit.

Very true bink thank you for your reply, is there any rough numbers you can share regarding the T4/6 talents ?

not to mention THREE pieces have crit rating on them... well there goes my EB spec hello PE!!!!!

So dont gem for socket bonus if you're really against it? Always able to reforge that crit into something else plus a little crit never hurt anyone. Doesn't really warrant changing to PE simply because you have some crit on your gear.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:35 PM ----------

Think for trinkets Breath of the Hydra plus either Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance or Wushoolay's Final Choice will be the final choices. As awesome as Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen sounds we already crit A LOT especially during ascendance or simply during lava burst with chain lava surges. It's going to be wasted a lot of the time as an ele shaman and should prob go to someone else. Its a shame both candidates for 2nd trinket don't have optimal static secondaries IMO Wushoolay's Final Choice will prob pull ahead but then again it depends on ICDs.

So dont gem for socket bonus if you're really against it? Always able to reforge that crit into something else plus a little crit never hurt anyone. Doesn't really warrant changing to PE simply because you have some crit on your gear.

---------- Post added 2013-02-10 at 06:35 PM ----------

Think for trinkets Breath of the Hydra plus either Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance or Wushoolay's Final Choice will be the final choices. As awesome as Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen sounds we already crit A LOT especially during ascendance or simply during lava burst with chain lava surges. It's going to be wasted a lot of the time as an ele shaman and should prob go to someone else. Its a shame both candidates for 2nd trinket don't have optimal static secondaries IMO Wushoolay's Final Choice will prob pull ahead but then again it depends on ICDs.

I was actually thinking of Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen's potential outside of CDs, ofcourse this is assuming its uptime is really high (something crazy like 90% if not 100% given its duration). We'll see an increase in the number of lava surge procs, clear casting uptime will be even more which will translate in more (dare I say it) sustained DPS over the course of a fight, and in some cases those big Fulmination and Elemental Blast crits will be sweet not to mention a tiny bit of dps increase from Fire ele / Searing. That being said those 8k+ int procs look juicy though I want them

P.S: Btw Ryuke the 4pc bonus is not affected by Echo procs only overloads, think a blue mentioned this a few weeks back when they were getting questions about what does the 4pc proc from, and the Lava bursts cast during ascendence do count to lowering the CD when you first pop it.

I was actually thinking of Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen's potential outside of CDs, ofcourse this is assuming its uptime is really high (something crazy like 90% if not 100% given its duration). We'll see an increase in the number of lava surge procs, clear casting uptime will be even more which will translate in more (dare I say it) sustained DPS over the course of a fight, and in some cases those big Fulmination and Elemental Blast crits will be sweet not to mention a tiny bit of dps increase from Fire ele / Searing. That being said those 8k+ int procs look juicy though I want them

P.S: Btw Ryuke the 4pc bonus is not affected by Echo procs only overloads, think a blue mentioned this a few weeks back when they were getting questions about what does the 4pc proc from, and the Lava bursts cast during ascendence do count to lowering the CD when you first pop it.

Pretty sure the blue post said it did proc off echo. I honestly don't think it'll have an amazing ICD lower than usual sure, but even 70% up time would be ludicrous.

Edit: Looking at back at the blue post it never mentioned Echo only overload.
Shaman
- The Elemental 4pc does trigger from Overloads.
- We're still iterating on the cooldown/potency/duration of Elemental Mastery. In the next PTR build, it will likely be a 90 sec cooldown.
- We are experimenting with removing the attenuation of Chain Lightning. This means Chain Lightning won't do less damage on subsequent targets

Try an asian MMORPG with farming 20,000 different mats for an item which just has 60% success rate when you find the right person with the recipe, got another recipe to use for the craft. Then of course you need 5 different pieces unsealed by a black smith who is just there 1 month randomly in one of the 15 catacombs.

Originally Posted by Socialhealer

he wants to play ele shaman but it's always fucked up, so it's a state of permanently insulted, i understand that feeling as an ele shaman.