This New Loco Dlc Business...

As DTG have taken the trouble to send me an email trumpeting this new loco, I have a couple of questions as I’m a bit at a loss as to understand it.

MSB is released with a chunk of the route unusable because there is no loco included that will run on it. That in itself is bizarre.

To then immediately announce the release of a German loco as a DLC (we all presume to open up the unusable bit of the new route that we’ve all just paid for) seems logical, although a pretty sketchy way to treat your customers -
“here’s your new car Sir, it comes with just the 3 wheels, if you’d like to use the vehicle the 4th wheel is extra”

The new loco, however, is only to be used on an old route that by DTGs own admission is fundamentally flawed, broken and in all likelihood unrepairable, making this DLC utterly pointless. The only positive is that it perhaps indicates that older DLC haven’t all been confined to the dustbin. Maybe.

However, unless it is literally priced at about £3.99 I just don’t get who would buy it. I don’t get the logic behind it, or the mind(s) that came up with it as a sound ‘next step’ for TSW.

I would hazard a guess that this was conceived before Dmitri’s time & his hands are tied on what can be said (surprise surprise!), but at least some kind of explanation would be interesting to hear.

Probably nearly the entirety of users of this forum agrees with you, however no one was yet able to get an official answer.
Just take a quick look at the thread regarding the Dovetail Live article and you will see what I mean.
So yeah, nice DLC but probably not the best choice DTG could have made.

The lack of any developer response for the new DLC says it all really.

Even the developers themselves hint that this was a bad decision. I quote from Discord from one of the devs:

“I have bad news”

“No PZB on the route”

I won’t say who said it for their sake but it highlights some of the most unusual decisions DTG make and it’s clear the developers have their hands tied whilst management make some rather silly decisions.

It’s clear that ever since that “dev” (I won’t be naming any names) from Discord said there will be no PZB on the route, the entire DTG staff have essentially been silent on this new 182 DLC. Not even answering basic questions on the forums or on Discord

It’s clear that ever since that “dev” from Discord said there will be no PZB on the route, the entire DTG staff have essentially been silent on this new 182 DLC. Not even answering basic questions on the forums or on Discord

I have already asked the question elsewhere why you can not leave from the port in the MSB route, the answer was that there is no diesel locomotive to be able to drive there, well then. I also reacted to the question whether you would buy the DB BR-182, I answered yes, purely because I want everything as a simulator fan. But now that I have read the above, I feel a more uncomfortable feeling. I did not like it though that all the products that I bought new to want were not yet a few weeks later on sale. But now that I have found out that I bought a piece of 'area' for nop because you can only walk there, that goes too far for me. The many complaining, which I sometimes stood behind but often do not, I am going to understand more and more, I often read that DTG does not or never reacts and if they do it then I now notice that 'we are kept on the line' I'm naive. As a proponent of DTG I always held my hand over their heads, but my opinion is now changing, but not in the right.
I once heard from Amy Winehouse her father to please no longer buy anything from her because she buys stuff that would drive her to death but Amy knew that there are Always people who do it anyway, we now know that dear man was right. I am not going to say that this counts for DTG, that would go too far, but having said this: Does DTG not call it about itself? Many are no longer planning to buy a Locomotive, what if a new route arrives? Many complain about non-working or other things that just do not fit in a number of routes, but DTG does nothing with it, yet we continue to buy, hmmmmm.

As mentioned, the reason we aren't seeing much of anything here is because there isn't anything positive to share, and DTG is going to avoid large conflicts on the forums with regards to the 182, as well as prevent increasing the damage to the sales of 182. There are people who might not know about the issues that this DLC will have, and maybe not care, and they don't want to lose those sales.

Now there is the chance that this DLC was developed way before MSB and RSN was released, and therefore the changes to make it compatible are rooted deep within. It's also possible that DTG wants to appeal to people who already have RT and want to change things up and appeal to a larger audience that already has the route required. There isn't a need to buy a route you don't have if you have the complete base game.

We also might not be hearing much (and this is a long shot, the hope of this is slim) because they are trying to determine what can be done to resolve the issues we have with RT. Who knows, maybe they might overhaul it. Doubtful, but who knows.

I think at times, this forum forgets DTG is a business, a company, and not every product a company might put out is going to be stellar. Some are going to be duds, and the 182 is probably going to be a dud unless changes are made. There is a need though for continuous income in the company, and the ROI probably points to release and hope with time the money is made. The best thing we can do is vote not on forums and posts, but with our wallets. Management probably already knows the issue with the DLC, and probably doesn't care enough to want to make things better. To actually resolve the issues we have with RT, it requires a lot of investment for no monetary gain beyond the hope that there is increased sales for a DLC loco. This isn't truck simulator where the fan base is huge and the income is enough to sustain free improvements and reworks of base game content. It's a niche market in comparison.

The most important thing to come of the 182 is the lessons that can be learned from it for the decision making in future DLCs. It can be a turning point, positive or negative. If this begins the downward trend of support for DLCs though, we will know things haven't really changed.

As mentioned, the reason we aren't seeing much of anything here is because there isn't anything positive to share, and DTG is going to avoid large conflicts on the forums with regards to the 182, as well as prevent increasing the damage to the sales of 182. There are people who might not know about the issues that this DLC will have, and maybe not care, and they don't want to lose those sales.

Now there is the chance that this DLC was developed way before MSB and RSN was released, and therefore the changes to make it compatible are rooted deep within. It's also possible that DTG wants to appeal to people who already have RT and want to change things up and appeal to a larger audience that already has the route required. There isn't a need to buy a route you don't have if you have the complete base game.

We also might not be hearing much (and this is a long shot, the hope of this is slim) because they are trying to determine what can be done to resolve the issues we have with RT. Who knows, maybe they might overhaul it. Doubtful, but who knows.

I think at times, this forum forgets DTG is a business, a company, and not every product a company might put out is going to be stellar. Some are going to be duds, and the 182 is probably going to be a dud unless changes are made. There is a need though for continuous income in the company, and the ROI probably points to release and hope with time the money is made. The best thing we can do is vote not on forums and posts, but with our wallets. Management probably already knows the issue with the DLC, and probably doesn't care enough to want to make things better. To actually resolve the issues we have with RT, it requires a lot of investment for no monetary gain beyond the hope that there is increased sales for a DLC loco. This isn't truck simulator where the fan base is huge and the income is enough to sustain free improvements and reworks of base game content. It's a niche market in comparison.

The most important thing to come of the 182 is the lessons that can be learned from it for the decision making in future DLCs. It can be a turning point, positive or negative. If this begins the downward trend of support for DLCs though, we will know things haven't really changed.

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In terms of content you have a point, as a diehard fan of trainsim's in general and DTG in particular, I buy everything but if you read afterwards that part of a route is not playable, well what are you doing then, did it omitted and posted on the other side, or indicate this during your sales slogan.

I think that if DTG had mentioned this there were probably a number of people pulled out and never bought the route, I buy everything because I want it and it can also pay, I think quite easy, but I can imagine that the person with little money Do not like this. It is a company, a company that wants to make a profit, but then you have to have the basis well.

You have to listen to the fans and answer the questions, some are really not that difficult. If you do not do this then people will complain and you will get a negative image, the 'new' buyers will read this and will quit pretty quickly and certainly when they read the negative messages and there are quite a few.

When you think that people pick this up, you create your own problem, it is already happening, there has been a lot of negative agitation lately. You can really afford mistakes in the beginning, but if you undermine it then it goes wrong. And if you think to make something nice in between (for example the BR-182) and to be able to sell it for a route of which there are too many problems ... For this type of business you really do not have to be a marketing manager .

And yet I keep buying everything and I still have confidence in the overall product. I already see many improvements in the last route compared to the previous ones. I think TSW is a beautiful and a nice simulator.

Its not about people forgetting there business making a product for money ....
They changed there direction on how the implement signals that's clear , its also clear they had no MVP or POC before they started it i would go so far to say they had no idea how they where even going to support content additions in future as is evident in how poorly service mode inserts new DLC. this was simply a case of treating your end users like dimwits to fund your MVP Development. It would also be true that RNS and the signaling changes started before or at a similar time to this loco so the question is then what on earth is wrong with there communication internally if your developing a new feature and have content that requires it then that content is blocked until feature is complete , or is written to allow for that feature to be hooked in later, you don't just carry on like a bunch of cowboys.

Did they learn lessons i sure hope they did , did they correct there internal course ... who knows ... and yet they refuse to speak to the community in anyway around core issues like this , why on earth would anyone in management think releasing a DLC add-on that has less functions than the current one on the route is a good idea, or better yet devote such preciousness development resources to such a product. Dev is expensive , and yet to develop what is known to be for some time now a non-compatible loco for your current framework is incredibly wasteful of development time.
Who knows its all speculation at this point but hey that's what happens when you refuse yet again to speak with your community. Do i love TSW yep do i think DTG needs a head kicking over this kind of nonsense yep.. people having to sift through discord and random comments to work out hey this new loco is probably cash grab to recoup some lost costs.. even if it was free its a waste of disk space at this point.

Given today’s news I think it’s only fair to add to this thread and say well done and thankyou to DTG.

There has been a lot of griping about the ‘relationship’ between customer and DTG recently, but personally I see the news about the 182 & Rapid Transit as a HUGE step in the right direction which I’m very pleased to see.

As DTG have taken the trouble to send me an email trumpeting this new loco, I have a couple of questions as I’m a bit at a loss as to understand it.

MSB is released with a chunk of the route unusable because there is no loco included that will run on it. That in itself is bizarre.

To then immediately announce the release of a German loco as a DLC (we all presume to open up the unusable bit of the new route that we’ve all just paid for) seems logical, although a pretty sketchy way to treat your customers -
“here’s your new car Sir, it comes with just the 3 wheels, if you’d like to use the vehicle the 4th wheel is extra”

The new loco, however, is only to be used on an old route that by DTGs own admission is fundamentally flawed, broken and in all likelihood unrepairable, making this DLC utterly pointless. The only positive is that it perhaps indicates that older DLC haven’t all been confined to the dustbin. Maybe.

However, unless it is literally priced at about £3.99 I just don’t get who would buy it. I don’t get the logic behind it, or the mind(s) that came up with it as a sound ‘next step’ for TSW.

I would hazard a guess that this was conceived before Dmitri’s time & his hands are tied on what can be said (surprise surprise!), but at least some kind of explanation would be interesting to hear.

Click to expand...

I have nothing to add to this, "the 4th wheel is extra" LOL sorry that had me, good to see someone here has a proper sense of humour.