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Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Prdgychild

How does this deck beat elves.....?

Deathblade, in general, or my version? I ask because you responded to my posting.

Regardless, we have good interactions wIth their deck. Step 1 is to draw your hand and analyze it and see how it interacts with various types of elves draws.
The next step is to make sure not to be TOO overactive in answering every threat. Obviously, there are a few elves which are better than others, and your timing with how you interact with them is extremely important.
Wirework symbiote is a must-answer because it protects other elves.
Deathrite Shaman can be very dangerous and it interacts with your Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage.
Finally, Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel are obviously the beginning parts of a combo, Heritage Druid should be answered.

In many prominent examples of defeating elves with blade decks, the blade player turns the corner and makes sure to keep the board 100 percent clear. On the play, it is much easier to perform this plan. On the draw, it can be much more difficult and it requires you to play very tight. For example, with Force backup, I'd be very tempted to Thoughtseize first to see what I'm working against, take the most explosive piece and to game plan against the worst case scenerio, then use your sfm and tnn to create a board presence.

Post board, I really dislike Planeswalkers. I like Force of will. I like Zealous Persecution and Engineered Plague. I like Meddling Mage. Leovold shuts down whole lines of play.

An examole game could be:
On the play.
Play drs, pass.
Plays 1 mana elf, pass
T2, cast thoughtseize:
- if you see the nuts, hold up your mana and interact.
- If you see something average, cast Stoneforge mystic. If you don't have Mystic and the first creature they played was drs, hold up your Shaman to block their activations.

T3, you can start easily casting brainstorms and finding more interactions. Hopefully you find a sfm for jitte. Snapcaster Mage to target Swords in your yard.

You can let certain creatures lives depending on your hand and their hand. Also, use your life total as a resource (you may find yourself in a situation where you've prevented them from comboing off but they are swinging for 4 per turn ).

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Deathblade, in general, or my version? I ask because you responded to my posting.

Regardless, we have good interactions wIth their deck. Step 1 is to draw your hand and analyze it and see how it interacts with various types of elves draws.
The next step is to make sure not to be TOO overactive in answering every threat. Obviously, there are a few elves which are better than others, and your timing with how you interact with them is extremely important.
Wirework symbiote is a must-answer because it protects other elves.
Deathrite Shaman can be very dangerous and it interacts with your Deathrite Shaman and Snapcaster Mage.
Finally, Heritage Druid and Nettle Sentinel are obviously the beginning parts of a combo, Heritage Druid should be answered.

In many prominent examples of defeating elves with blade decks, the blade player turns the corner and makes sure to keep the board 100 percent clear. On the play, it is much easier to perform this plan. On the draw, it can be much more difficult and it requires you to play very tight. For example, with Force backup, I'd be very tempted to Thoughtseize first to see what I'm working against, take the most explosive piece and to game plan against the worst case scenerio, then use your sfm and tnn to create a board presence.

Post board, I really dislike Planeswalkers. I like Force of will. I like Zealous Persecution and Engineered Plague. I like Meddling Mage. Leovold shuts down whole lines of play.

An examole game could be:
On the play.
Play drs, pass.
Plays 1 mana elf, pass
T2, cast thoughtseize:
- if you see the nuts, hold up your mana and interact.
- If you see something average, cast Stoneforge mystic. If you don't have Mystic and the first creature they played was drs, hold up your Shaman to block their activations.

T3, you can start easily casting brainstorms and finding more interactions. Hopefully you find a sfm for jitte. Snapcaster Mage to target Swords in your yard.

You can let certain creatures lives depending on your hand and their hand. Also, use your life total as a resource (you may find yourself in a situation where you've prevented them from comboing off but they are swinging for 4 per turn ).

Hmmm, I have been playing elves and stoneblade since caw blade and elves seems to be favored 70>30. I think thats because of chaos elves though. Elves also plays leovold and jitte though cannot seach for jitte as reliably but rec sage , recks my stoneblade deck through caverns and bounce.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Prdgychild

Hmmm, I have been playing elves and stoneblade since caw blade and elves seems to be favored 70>30. I think thats because of chaos elves though. Elves also plays leovold and jitte though cannot seach for jitte as reliably but rec sage , recks my stoneblade deck through caverns and bounce.

that said, stoneblade decks are so much fun to play it doesnt matter

I hear you. I'm not claiming for it to be overwhelming, I just think I've found a good game plan. I mean, the nice thing about elves is that it can rebuild so quickly /win so quickly; however, deathblade literally is built upon the premise of having decent game against everything and many of its cards interact favorably with deathblade.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Hey guys, figured Iíd post this list up finally, Iíve been playing deathblade for a while now and been tinkering with the list as I went along, this is what I currently play and Iím reasonably happy with. Iíve put up reasonable results with it at local weekly games. Iím admittedly not the best pilot, so Iíve likely left quite a few wins on the table.

Yes, I know the list is 61 cards. But I couldnít figure out what to cut .

Maindeck:
I feel the main deck is pretty standard, not many curveballs here. I do run basics as my meta currently seems to be teeming with blood moons and wastelands. Generally I also prefer just having a more stable mana base, so itís not as greedy as other lists Iíve seen on here. The lone tropical island is really only in here for reanimator or miracles. Otherwise itís a 3rd nonbasic island.
Iíve been seeing some dimir charm and painful truths in lists recently but I do think that esper charm is more flexible/better than either of these cards. End step drawing 2 or making an opponent discard 2 feels very good, and itís also somewhat of answer to miracles as 3 is a relatively difficult number for them to come up with. In the miracles matchup I view this as half an abrupt decay.

Iíd like to add a deluge maindeck and maybe one more counterspell or a snapcaster mage. Finding the space is difficult though. I also want to experiment with monastery mentor as well, perhaps I will end up cutting a TNN for it.
Just curious though, is the 23 land count too high? A lot of blade lists I see run as few as 21, with most at 22. Might be able to make space that way.

Sideboard:
Most of my sideboard feels pretty vanilla, I donít feel like Iím making any waves here. Except for the thopter foundry combo.
I have a mild transformational sideboard into a thopter foundry combo. While Iíve gone back and forth on its inclusion I do like it and Iíll walk through my rationale because itís probably the most interesting piece of tech in the deck.

Start with the bad. For starters it takes up 1/3 of my sideboard slots. Because itís an artifact/equipment based strategy, itís likely going to be impacted by the natural sideboard choices against the maindeck deathblade list. Itís also a relatively slow combo to set up, but we are naturally a slower deck and deathrites can help get this out a bit earlier.

The good, it flat out wins grindy games. Typically I yank 4 FoW and in goes the Thopter combo. In grindy games the combo is good if you have it in your early hand and just try to stick it immediately. Itís also good if you find it late game with 5-6 mana and you can immediately turn it on. Also, itís almost always a G2 surprise and catches opponents off guard. Iíve won miracles matchups with this combo as it makes terminus way worse. On a more marginal note, as long as I have a basic island/plains up, I no longer care about blood moons anymore. The combo runs on colorless mana.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

You can run less land. I play 21 lands like forever (and 61 cards).
when do you want to board thopter combo in ?
as you mentioned the hate hits it as well. other token machines work as well.
with 4 Stoneforge Mystic you wan to run 3 equipments as well. with only 2 you forces you into situations where the Mystic is only a 1/2 useless. Sword of Fire and ice, Sword of feast and famine are common choices.
my feeling about mentor is that he can be answered too easy. Punishing fire, decay, swords to plow.
If you want creatures think about something with delve like tasigur or gurmag angler.
All in all you are a control heavy list which is okay if your meta allows it.
without thopter foundry in your board you have 5 slots more for counter magic, pithing needle etc.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

Hey guys, figured Iíd post this list up finally, Iíve been playing deathblade for a while now and been tinkering with the list as I went along, this is what I currently play and Iím reasonably happy with. Iíve put up reasonable results with it at local weekly games. Iím admittedly not the best pilot, so Iíve likely left quite a few wins on the table.

Yes, I know the list is 61 cards. But I couldnít figure out what to cut .

Maindeck:
I feel the main deck is pretty standard, not many curveballs here. I do run basics as my meta currently seems to be teeming with blood moons and wastelands. Generally I also prefer just having a more stable mana base, so itís not as greedy as other lists Iíve seen on here. The lone tropical island is really only in here for reanimator or miracles. Otherwise itís a 3rd nonbasic island.
Iíve been seeing some dimir charm and painful truths in lists recently but I do think that esper charm is more flexible/better than either of these cards. End step drawing 2 or making an opponent discard 2 feels very good, and itís also somewhat of answer to miracles as 3 is a relatively difficult number for them to come up with. In the miracles matchup I view this as half an abrupt decay.

Iíd like to add a deluge maindeck and maybe one more counterspell or a snapcaster mage. Finding the space is difficult though. I also want to experiment with monastery mentor as well, perhaps I will end up cutting a TNN for it.
Just curious though, is the 23 land count too high? A lot of blade lists I see run as few as 21, with most at 22. Might be able to make space that way.

Sideboard:
Most of my sideboard feels pretty vanilla, I donít feel like Iím making any waves here. Except for the thopter foundry combo.
I have a mild transformational sideboard into a thopter foundry combo. While Iíve gone back and forth on its inclusion I do like it and Iíll walk through my rationale because itís probably the most interesting piece of tech in the deck.

Start with the bad. For starters it takes up 1/3 of my sideboard slots. Because itís an artifact/equipment based strategy, itís likely going to be impacted by the natural sideboard choices against the maindeck deathblade list. Itís also a relatively slow combo to set up, but we are naturally a slower deck and deathrites can help get this out a bit earlier.

The good, it flat out wins grindy games. Typically I yank 4 FoW and in goes the Thopter combo. In grindy games the combo is good if you have it in your early hand and just try to stick it immediately. Itís also good if you find it late game with 5-6 mana and you can immediately turn it on. Also, itís almost always a G2 surprise and catches opponents off guard. Iíve won miracles matchups with this combo as it makes terminus way worse. On a more marginal note, as long as I have a basic island/plains up, I no longer care about blood moons anymore. The combo runs on colorless mana.

I agree with Neo re: 4 SFM + 3 equipment. Plus, sword of fire and ice is really my go to equipment in the blind. Drawing extra cards is incredibly valuable in a deck built upon card quality.

Re: land count. Up until recently I was running 61 cards, 20 lands. That was too few, I upped the land count to 21 and the deck number to 60 to up y percentage points approx 3 to 4 percent, I think. 61 cards is totally acceptable. 23 lands is too many in my opinion, though I have friends who don't play deathblade who disagree.

I dislike the thoptor combo in your sideboard. Don't get me wrong, I totally get it. The combo is totally awesome and fun to play; however, your resources are better spent elsewhere. I think the combo is best versus burn, lands, and maybe miracles.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Per the recent discussions regarding removing Jace, the Mind Sculptor because he is too slow, I have added two Leovold, Emissary of Trest to the 75; one in the main, one in the side. I removed the Dimir Charm because of the same reason I don't play Abrupt Decay and Baleful Strix. Because I like to run a plains, swamp and island, there will be situations where you can't quite cast anything on two in mana attrition matchups (vs delver, 4 wasteland versions of shardless, and lands). I recognize that Leovold is one mana of each type at 3 cmc, but I think the upside is too high enough for Leovold that it's worth it and I think it will be easy enough to navigate either with Deathrite Shaman or fetching Island, Swamp and then Tropical Island. In the sideboard, I removed Atraxa, Praetor's Voice, that I never got to cast and wanted to try out versus Abrupt Decay matchups, and put in the 2nd Leovold.

What do you all think? The Diabolic Edict and Mana Leak: Diabolic Edict is the additional piece of removal that we need versus creature heavy matchups. Very good versus Lands and True-Name Nemesis. Mana Leak acts as a more castable Counterspell. In fact, you can trap people quite easily I've done it a half dozen time easily where I have a Scrubland and an open Fetchland and they think that I would only possible have Spell Pierce and I catch them with Mana Leak.

I wish I could fit 2 Lingering Souls into the main deck and not use any in the sideboard, but it's also really good to be selective to bring it in out of the sideboard versus the fair or control matchups.

It feels a little like I'm "betraying" the whole reason I played the deck in the first place (it plays 3 of my favorite cards: DRS, Lilly, and Jace), but Jace is just too slow and often ends up being a 4 mana removal spell or a 4 mana brainstorm. I may end up squeezing it back in for one of Mana Leak or Diabolic Edict.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

Per the recent discussions regarding removing Jace, the Mind Sculptor because he is too slow, I have added two Leovold, Emissary of Trest to the 75; one in the main, one in the side. I removed the Dimir Charm because of the same reason I don't play Abrupt Decay and Baleful Strix. Because I like to run a plains, swamp and island, there will be situations where you can't quite cast anything on two in mana attrition matchups (vs delver, 4 wasteland versions of shardless, and lands). I recognize that Leovold is one mana of each type at 3 cmc, but I think the upside is too high enough for Leovold that it's worth it and I think it will be easy enough to navigate either with Deathrite Shaman or fetching Island, Swamp and then Tropical Island. In the sideboard, I removed Atraxa, Praetor's Voice, that I never got to cast and wanted to try out versus Abrupt Decay matchups, and put in the 2nd Leovold.

What do you all think? The Diabolic Edict and Mana Leak: Diabolic Edict is the additional piece of removal that we need versus creature heavy matchups. Very good versus Lands and True-Name Nemesis. Mana Leak acts as a more castable Counterspell. In fact, you can trap people quite easily I've done it a half dozen time easily where I have a Scrubland and an open Fetchland and they think that I would only possible have Spell Pierce and I catch them with Mana Leak.

I wish I could fit 2 Lingering Souls into the main deck and not use any in the sideboard, but it's also really good to be selective to bring it in out of the sideboard versus the fair or control matchups.

It feels a little like I'm "betraying" the whole reason I played the deck in the first place (it plays 3 of my favorite cards: DRS, Lilly, and Jace), but Jace is just too slow and often ends up being a 4 mana removal spell or a 4 mana brainstorm. I may end up squeezing it back in for one of Mana Leak or Diabolic Edict.

Just curious, i might be asking a stupid question, but why liliana? I never really understood her in deathblade builds since we don't really have cards we can throw away to her +1...? I can see her comboing with lingering souls or something, but a discard synergy doesn't seem to exist here. If anything else she seems like an edict effect which you already run...?

I'd cut her for a jace honestly, but she's one of your fav cards :P

I like the mana leak idea very much. Edict i'm less sold on. You have 4 stp, vindicate, and snapcasters. Might be a bit redundant.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

Just curious, i might be asking a stupid question, but why liliana? I never really understood her in deathblade builds since we don't really have cards we can throw away to her +1...? I can see her comboing with lingering souls or something, but a discard synergy doesn't seem to exist here. If anything else she seems like an edict effect which you already run...?

I'd cut her for a jace honestly, but she's one of your fav cards :P

I like the mana leak idea very much. Edict i'm less sold on. You have 4 stp, vindicate, and snapcasters. Might be a bit redundant.

The number 1 reason for Liliana is that she is a matchup breaker with Miracles. Otherwise, I might agree that jace is better considering that it pitches to force. Oh, and also, it also lands on T2 which is pretty great against certain matchups.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by First_Revenge

Just curious, i might be asking a stupid question, but why liliana? I never really understood her in deathblade builds since we don't really have cards we can throw away to her +1...? I can see her comboing with lingering souls or something, but a discard synergy doesn't seem to exist here. If anything else she seems like an edict effect which you already run...?

I'd cut her for a jace honestly, but she's one of your fav cards :P

I like the mana leak idea very much. Edict i'm less sold on. You have 4 stp, vindicate, and snapcasters. Might be a bit redundant.

4 Plows and a Vindicate is generally not enough spot removal for most creature matchups I found, so I like to have 1-2 extra in the 75. D-Edict is a choice that can be very bad or very good depending on the matchup and board state. It has the benefit of being uniquely effective against fatty decks like Reanimator, Sneak & Show, Lands, and Turbo Depths. ClimbGneiss and I have played this card a decent amount and are both fans.

Regarding Liliana-I agree with a lot of your sentiments about the card. I've already given ClimbGneiss my sermon on how Liliana does not belong in a deck with Brainstorm and Stoneforge Mystic. However, we agreed it affords a great angle of attack against Miracles. Also, the card is so objectively powerful it outright wins games, especially when played on turn 2. But overall the primary motivation to add it is to improve the problematic Miracles matchup.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Lilianas -2 is most of the times additional removal. with the discard you force the opponent into the top deck while you have Batterskull or another must answer.
I play 2 liliana and have rare times the problem what to discard. most of the times it's land while having 4 mana up. Also you can discard dead cards like swords to plowshares or counter in a situation where they ineffective

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Seraphix

4 Plows and a Vindicate is generally not enough spot removal for most creature matchups I found, so I like to have 1-2 extra in the 75. D-Edict is a choice that can be very bad or very good depending on the matchup and board state. It has the benefit of being uniquely effective against fatty decks like Reanimator, Sneak & Show, Lands, and Turbo Depths. ClimbGneiss and I have played this card a decent amount and are both fans.

Regarding Liliana-I agree with a lot of your sentiments about the card. I've already given ClimbGneiss my sermon on how Liliana does not belong in a deck with Brainstorm and Stoneforge Mystic. However, we agreed it affords a great angle of attack against Miracles. Also, the card is so objectively powerful it outright wins games, especially when played on turn 2. But overall the primary motivation to add it is to improve the problematic Miracles matchup.

I think I might add Jace as card number 61, just to make peace with my soul.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by ClimbGneiss

I think I might add Jace as card number 61, just to make peace with my soul.

The whole reason I play this deck is to relive the turn to SFM, turn 3 B-skull, turn 4 jace. There is nothing more fun than playing a deck that plans on killing with creatures that protect a planeswalker that does it all. I also run the 4 hawks because i am stubborn and believe that the search them out reshuffle them for two new cards is fun and allows me to "play" a lot in a single game.

Playing JTMS proaxtively along side creatures is the reason I play this deck. I would play rug with oracle of muldaya and jace if i did it any other way.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Originally Posted by Prdgychild

The whole reason I play this deck is to relive the turn to SFM, turn 3 B-skull, turn 4 jace. There is nothing more fun than playing a deck that plans on killing with creatures that protect a planeswalker that does it all. I also run the 4 hawks because i am stubborn and believe that the search them out reshuffle them for two new cards is fun and allows me to "play" a lot in a single game.

Playing JTMS proaxtively along side creatures is the reason I play this deck. I would play rug with oracle of muldaya and jace if i did it any other way.

A friend of mine and Seraphix loves to play Squadron Hawk control. He does quite well with it.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Pithing Needle is an important Sideboard card. Miracles, Death and Taxes, Goblins, Merfolk, Elves. Nearly every deck get hit by Needle.
3 Decay is too much. 2 are fine. You board it only against Miracles. Your combo hate is strong. I think it's not necessary even in a combo heavy meta.
Delirium with Surgery is not hard. Land, Creature, Instant, Sorcery, Delirium. In about 4 of 5 times I have it when needed against Reanimator.
Spellbomb is super and does the job normally. If you feel unsafe or your meta is too graveyard heavy you can add an additional Rest in Peace.

I play 2 Spellbomb and 1 Surgical Extraction which was always enough so far.
I think about Hymn to Tourarch again in the Maindeck. 2-3 copies instead the 4th Stoneforge and Sword of Fire and Ice.

I agree with a lot of what neo has to say; however, there are some card choices I'd recommend you consider.

Pithing Needles as a one of. Specifically against miracles and sneak and show, this card is very good for us. It's also useful versus death and taxes.

Meddling made. I run 2. I have a lot lands, reanimator and show and tell and storm in my area. It's a house against these decks. It had decent utility against fair decks too, you just name their primary removal spell and try to dodge board wipes.

I run 2 surgical. I don't run invasive surgery. Surgery is nice because it's proactive in a couple of key situations (versus a Terminus or an Infernal Tutor for example). That being said, Surgical can almost be your 5th and 6th Force of Will against certain combo decks.

I run Sorin lord of innistrad. You can run whatever token generating walker you like the best, but I definitely think you should run 1 because it helps break parity versus miracles and it helps get us closer to even versus shardless, maverick and aggro loam..

I haven't run divert yet, but I've been strongly considering it versus shardless.

I also like additional removal and board wipes because we struggle against swarms.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

I agree with a lot of what neo has to say; however, there are some card choices I'd recommend you consider.

Pithing Needles as a one of. Specifically against miracles and sneak and show, this card is very good for us. It's also useful versus death and taxes.

Meddling made. I run 2. I have a lot lands, reanimator and show and tell and storm in my area. It's a house against these decks. It had decent utility against fair decks too, you just name their primary removal spell and try to dodge board wipes.

I run 2 surgical. I don't run invasive surgery. Surgery is nice because it's proactive in a couple of key situations (versus a Terminus or an Infernal Tutor for example). That being said, Surgical can almost be your 5th and 6th Force of Will against certain combo decks.

I run Sorin lord of innistrad. You can run whatever token generating walker you like the best, but I definitely think you should run 1 because it helps break parity versus miracles and it helps get us closer to even versus shardless, maverick and aggro loam..

I haven't run divert yet, but I've been strongly considering it versus shardless.

I also like additional removal and board wipes because we struggle against swarms.

Re: [Deck] Deathblade

Thanks for all the feedback! How do you feel about something like this? I'm not sure about cutting a stoneforge mystic, almost every list i've seen runs 4 even with only two equipments.

I do like the idea of adding hymns, but my struggle is the BB requirement. Typically i try not to include spells i can't cast off just my basics, but i'm willing to give this a shot. I've seen a lot of hymn's go off and win games on the spot. Even if it doesn't i guess its essentially automatic card advantage whenever i can resolve it which is usually not a bad thing.

I want to fit 2 hymns in here but i feel like esper charm is sort of hymn #2 but more flexible.

Added an engineered plague for another crowd control spell. Hopefully 3 board wipers should be enough.

Honestly, i'm not really sold on Nahiri or token producers. I just find the 5 mana to expensive. I don't really have room for it either without cutting something from the SB so i'm going to omit it for now.