“A cartel is a formal agreement among competing firms. It is a formal organization where there is a small number of sellers and usually involve homogeneous products. Cartel members may agree on such matters as price fixing, total industry output, market shares, allocation of customers, allocation of territories, bid rigging, establishment of common sales agencies, and the division of profits or combination of these. The aim of such collusion (also called the cartel agreement) is to increase individual members’ profits by reducing competition.” [Wikipedia]

Sorry, DeMaurice, that’s a real stretch. I mean, to call the NFL a formal organization of competing teams all selling the same product and setting prices…I can’t see it.

And Wang has a thoughtful, balanced assessment of the state of sports journalism in New Orleans—specifically, the crew over at Nola.com, and in particular Jeff Duncan and James Varney. But frankly, there’s something about it I just don’t get:

“Personally, I don’t buy into the notion that they’re lazy or otherwise unprofessional, and I agree with Varney that those assertions are out of line.”

And yet…

“I’ve got a hunch that they’re not all that interested in separating the wheat from the chaff and heeding the legitimate feedback…”

In other words: they’ve been lazy and unprofessional.

Your trouble, Wang, is that you’re so damn polite and considerate. You need to learn to just cut loose every once in awhile.

And finally, in the opinion of John Czarnecki of Fox Sports, Drew Brees is blowing it. He’s totally overestimated his value to the New Orleans Saints, and he’d better get his ass in gear quick and sign a realistic contract, one that places him in the second tier, below Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Aaron Rodgers.

Okay, I understand Czarnecki is full of shit. He probably found himself up against a deadline, figured he needed to pull some extra page views, and settled on an easy target. But just in case anyone is tempted to undervalue Brees because of Czarnecki’s say-so, here’s why he’s full of shit.

First, check this out:

“Brees is great for the Saints, and vice versa. But I’m not convinced he would be great in every NFL offense. And there’s the rub. Size and strength do matter in the NFL, and Brees is barely 6 feet tall. Manning is 6-5, Brady 6-4. Brees hates hearing that, but those are important measurements in every NFL personnel department. Brees might say he has outplayed his height, but it’s the sole reason he was a second-round pick.”

Is that the system, John? The “short quarterback offense”? Are you trying to claim here that Payton’s system requires a petite signal caller? No? Then how in hell does Brees’ height have anything to do with it? Other than the fact that, yes, he outperformed taller quarterbacks?

Then there’s this:

“Yes, Brees would be valuable to teams without a quality quarterback, but they all would have to adjust their offense to what has been successful in New Orleans and do it the Sean Payton way.”

Whoa, hold on there, chief. There’s this guy, and his name is Peyton Manning…oh, right, you know about him, you’ve mentioned him already. He’s one of the all-time greats, right? And now he plays for Denver—which has adjusted their offense to what had been successful in Indianapolis, so they can do it the Peyton Manning way. So why isn’t Manning a “system quarterback”? Because he’s tall?

Then there’s the comparison with Dan Marino:

To me, Brees is a product of the Saints’ remarkable offensive system, one designed by Payton to utilize his quick-strike strengths, his ability to roll out and his mind to remember every detail of the offense. Yes, he shattered Dan Marino’s single-season passing record with 5,476 yards in 2011, but I can’t honestly say that Brees is a better quarterback than Marino, whose physical skills and quick release put him on a different level. Brees could beat Marino in a foot race, but that’s about it.

I got some hot news for you, John: my sofa could beat Marino in a foot race. Marino—one of my all-time favorite quarterbacks, mind you—had one outstanding physical skill, and one only: his arm. Brees beats him in everything else. Most quarterbacks beat him in everything else. Joey Harrington, David Carr, and even Byron Leftwich were more athletic than Marino. Look what happened to them. And do you know why they didn’t work out, John? Because, in football terms, they were idiots. They couldn’t master a playbook, couldn’t read defenses, couldn’t make instantaneous correct decisions, which is just as important as being able to drop a football into a bucket at forty yards—which Brees can also do.

What’s more, Brees didn’t just break Marino’s yardage record. He’s the only quarterback who’s thrown for over 5,000 yards twice. And yeah, they throw a lot in Payton’s offense, but you don’t get to 5,000 yards without being wicked efficient. Guess who set the NFL record for completion percentage in 2009? Guess who broke his own record last season?

And guess who is only a few short games away from breaking Johnny U’s record for consecutive games with a touchdown, the record the NFL Network rated the #1 record that would never be broken? That’s right: Drew Brees, system quarterback extraordinaire.

But the best quarterback, for my money, was a skinny guy with no outstanding arm strength, who had to rely on his mind, his ability to roll out, and his coach’s brilliant offensive game plans. His name was Joe Montana. You might remember him. Joe Montana, system quarterback extraordinaire.

You’re an idiot, Czarnecki. And Benson, you’re an idiot too, if you don’t get Brees signed. Because here’s the real bottom line: it doesn’t matter how well, or poorly, Brees might play for any other team. He’s not going to be playing for any other team: he’s going to be playing for the New Orleans Fucking Saints, for the rest of his career if we’re lucky. So we don’t have to worry about any other system but our own. And in that system, on that team, he is priceless.

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The bottom of that linked page speaks volumes about bloggers: “100 most average NFL players of all time” with a photo of Joe Namath. You get a platform to grind your personal axes with illogical, self-indulgent, poorly constructed arguments that nobody completely reads because they go on forever. But hey, at least you got to express yourself.

Czarnarki: “Manning is 6-5″ Which one? What does it matter? Good thing Drew Brees had that spectacular defense to carry him through that 2009 championship season. Otherwise, he’s a poor man’s Doug Flutie without the CFL experience.

I think it’s fair enough to say that Brees wouldn’t be the same guy in another system. Hell, he wasn’t the same guy in San Diego. But isn’t everyone a system quarterback? I mean, what elite quarterback doesn’t benefit from the system he’s in? Would Joe Montana have been a hall of famer without his system? We’ll never know.

“System quarterback?” I think that’s fair.

But the argument posed was that Brees is worth less to other teams because of that. In an ideal world where every quarterback is paid EXACTLY what they’re worth to the team, that’s probably true. See the above. But that’s not the world we live in. If Brees were unrestricted, I have absolutely no doubt that he’d already be in camp with some team for a very, very outrageous amount of money right now.

Because people overpay. Every. Single. Day.

The whole system quarterback -> worth less to others -> overestimated own value is a big fat non-sequitir.

No doubt. I remember I was one of the few who was pumped about him coming here (many fans wanted Leinart, and I haven’t forgotten that). But nobody in their right minds could have expected this. This Brees is a different guy than the San Diego version. And it’s because of the system. That doesn’t make him less valuable (as He said Himself)

Yeah, I know, that was basically a long agreement with everything you said on the subject. It just got me fired up. This may mean I’m guilty of the effete incestual collaboration Stu accused us all of. Oh well.

Actually, it wasn’t until 2009 that Brees’ passer rating matched his best year in San Diego. The Chargers lit a fire under him when they drafted Rivers, and he’s been (Chargers irony intended) “lights out” ever since.

And does anyone with a single active brain cell think that Brees couldn’t run the offense in New England or Green Bay? Because he’s short? Come on, man.

Of course not. Brees could RUN any offense. Would he be as productive as he is here? That’s an unknown. What he can do here is established. That does make him more valuable here than elsewhere. But again, value and amount he could get paid aren’t necessarily correlated.

The real question is: would he be as productive as Brady in New England, or as Rodgers in Green Bay. And I would say yes.

I also think either of those guys could be just as productive in New Orleans. But those guys aren’t available; and if Benson is as smart as he thinks he is, he’ll realize that Brees is the short-term future of the Saints…and the long-term future hinges on not pissing off the fanbase again.

How is Tom Brady not also a system QB? Would he play as well for any other team and coach? He’s not the superman that his media worshipers make him out to be. He looked very average when Payton and the Saints destroyed the Pats on MNF in 2009. How many INTs did Brady throw that night? Seems like it was at least three and one of those was to Mike McKenzie after he’d been unsigned and riding his couch the previous week. Nothing against Brady and Manning. Both are great, but the comparison this guy makes is shortsighted and flawed.

I think you’re right, Mr. Himself, that this Fox Sports writer just chose an easy target.

Passer rating isn’t perfect, but it takes into account every metric that people think may be more important.

What’s more: it allows for consistency in comparison. I’m comparing young Drew Brees to old Drew Brees, and Drew to Peyton to Tom to Aaron. That gives you at least a rough comparative simulation of reality.

If it’s actual reality you want, just watch the damn games. Anyone who doesn’t think Brees is a great quarterback–not pretty good, not “good for his system,” but great–doesn’t know a fucking thing about the game.

We’ve been over the passer rating thing. I was just poking you in the eye a little.

It’s hard to credibly criticize Brees because he’s so good at so many parts of the game (including leadership, and not only of the offense). I try (weak throwing arm, and what does he do? Gets stronger in the offseason) and generally fail. The guy is awesome, no question. Except for his foreign policy position but I’ll overlook that for another silver Lombardi.

Czarnoski is obviously airing his bias. He makes a poor argument. With too many words.

“After all, we’re all well aware of the fact that these days the internet is bursting at the seams with idiots and assholes. (Present company excluded, of course. We here at moosedenied are madly in love with every single one of our intrepid readers.) And sometimes even just one can make you want to shove an icepick up your nose. One need look no further than the aforementioned Who Dat Social Club, where ever since its launch, our friends over there have been incessantly pestered by one of the most miserable, self-important cocksuckers you’ll ever run across on the internet or anywhere else. Just a complete waste of skin who gets off on being loathed and amuses himself by taking a daily self-indulgent shit all over someone else’s blog. But I digress.”

I’ve always felt that the “system quarterback” label was too easy to apply. Fact is, an offense like that of the Saints demands lots of of little successes; and little flaws and sheer luck can derail the most prolific attack. Injuries of key players can affect output; for example, losing David Thomas last year might have resulted in losing the San Francisco game, since Thomas was an excellent blocker and passable outlet. Maybe the offense wouldn’t have stalled so much in the earlier stages of the game. Thomas’s output as a receiver wasn’t especially missed – he doesn’t seem to get as many yards after the catch as he used to – but his other contributions might have made an explosive offense even better had he played. Pierre Thomas’s early loss during the game had the same effect; a tiny change in head position might have kept him in action, and the end result would have been very different.
Conversely, true game managers can often do well enough to win on a team with a strong defense. The 2000 Ravens demonstrated that a team can win a Super Bowl with one of the worst offenses in the league.
Discussions like this often fall into the “if your aunt had balls, she’d be your uncle” category. The Saints have painstakingly assembled the pieces of a stellar offense, a combination of system, players, motivation and management both in-game and between games that has been the envy of the league, even during “down” years like 2007 and 2008 (anyone remember when 8-8 was the Saints high-water mark? I sure do). Let’s hope that Mickey can sign Drew without unravelling the rest of the team – or that Chase Daniel can pull off an ’08 Matt Cassel if he has to. Our odds are better than a lot of other teams. I don’t think we’d be the 2011 Colts. However, the team would have to adjust to do well. So – if Daniel does well, is he a system quarterback? If he is a system quarterback, does that make Brees a system quarterback?

We don’t know. Brady’s only played for the Patriots. Cassel was very successful with the Patriots, a lot less so with the Chiefs. Was that because Cassel was a system quarterback, or because the rest of the Chiefs offense sucked – or the coaching staff?

I don’t think that Brees is like Cassel. Winning in the NFL is this mish-mash of tools, planning and happenstance that is hard to accurately evaluate, and John Czarnecki is no better than your Message Board Guy at figuring it all out. That said, I would sure rather have Brees in at quarterback than Daniel, all else being equal.

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