A Watershed Moment In Wisconsin (updated)

LIke you, I am just shaking my head at what is happening in Wisconsin. But it is of greater significance than you can imagine. The Union thugs (and I’m sorry, that is just what they are, not all the teachers certainly, but the leaders) are foaming and gnashing their teeth at their loss of power and money. What is happening is that the public interest is now being considered over the out of control union demands.

All Gov. Walker is asking is that they reduce the collective-bargaining power of unions and force state employees to put 5.8 percent of their salaries toward their OWN pensions and pay 12.6 percent of their health-care premiums. This is called “skin in the game.” Remember when Pres. Obama told us we needed to all have “skin in the game?” Well, he doesn’t seem that he thinks unions are a part of that.

Every reasonable person looks at that and says it’s not too much to ask for. But the unions put out the call to their members that this is a tragedy of epic proportions, and whipped up the teachers enough to make them break the law. It is illegal for teachers to strike in Wisconsin. Naturally we wouldn’t want the children to suffer because of the demands of adults. So this is why the teachers called in “sick.” In my opinion, they should be fired for this alone. Then there are the liberal doctors at the protest actually giving out doctor notes to the teachers! Which is fraud. The whole thing reeks.

Oh yes, let’s not forget the Democrats running out of the state to avoid the vote. It is truly laughable. I hope all of Wisconsin remembers their names when it comes to election time.

This is the Governor yesterday:

“We are looking at legal options to compel the senators to come back,” Walker says. “They have no endgame. They don’t know what they are doing. They got caught up in the hysteria and decided to run, but that’s not how this works. You have got to be in the arena.”

You see, the powerful and wealthy unions, that have our President in their back pocket, are finally being challenged. There is finally a group fighting back. Who is this group fighting for the public interest and the constitution?

That would be The Tea Party. Even the liberal E.J. Dionne today of the Washington Post sees that:

“Take five more steps back and you realize how successful the Tea Party has been. No matter how much liberals may poke fun at them, Tea Party partisans can claim victory in fundamentally altering the country’s dialogue.”

Governor Walker doesn’t seem to be affected by all this. He knows he is doing the right thing. This is something Republican Governors should have done long ago. Which is putting the public interest above the powerful union’s demands that are literally draining state budgets. Trust me when I say, the unions will not back down quietly.

Here is one person’s description of what she went through at the rally as she made her way through the union crowd.

They stood blocking the way, leaving only a narrow two-person-wide space for thousands to funnel through. It was scary, claustrophic, and made me feel panicked. They glared, yelled, and one guy pushed me so hard I flew two feet forward. I thought my husband was going to lose it, so we stopped and just stood to the side where we were. I watched a lot of people from the rally pass in front of me experiencing the same thing. I saw middle class, working class people who looked liked my sister, my mother, my son or daughter, my neighbors… being taunted and intimidated by a mob hoping to provoke mayhem or violence. I looked for police help to secure a path or help with our exit, but I only saw them standing in isolated clusters amongst themselves, the nearest over 50 feet away from the crowd.

As a member of the union, I’m ashamed and horrified. As a public school teacher, I’m confused and disheartened to see so many people I admire support this behavior and even worse: join in pimping our children to further their political agenda. As the daughter of a police officer, I’m heartbroken to experience their callous indifference for my safety, that I can only understand as their passive support for protestors, and which makes them complicit in the intimidation.

Well that experience has led to these two independent voters, who have been fiscally conservative but socially divided on many issues, to a new understanding of how politics, unions, and the media work. I’m glad I didn’t rely on the descriptions and information from others about this issue. I saw the reality for myself, and we have both decided to stay actively involved. We will not trust or rely on any media to deliver primary information or facts. It really is true: there is biased reporting and organized, liberal oppression and hostility for all other viewpoints. I’m just little nobody wife, mom, and teacher in small town Wisconsin, and I experienced it.

Please don’t believe Hitler’s description of the Jews, the opponents description of his enemy, or the liberal government / media reports on conservative groups or politics. Go see for yourself.

It’s a watershed moment folks. Welcome to the new normal. The status quo will no longer be accepted. The Tea Party proved that if we stick together we can right this country.

Update: Watch Gov. Walker where he claims that “Every time I tried to do something sensible to balance our budget without laying people off, the unions said no.”

29 Responses

Although I think the teacher’s are 100% going about this in the wrong manner I also think they do have a bone to pick. The state is asking them to accept a lower salary by forcing them to pay into their pension funds. Wisconsin ranks 20th in the nation in avg teacher salary ($46,390)and 49th in starting teacher salary ($25,222) while requiring every teacher to have a BS degree (this is a good thing btw). In this day and age when we should be getting the best and the brightest to be the teachers of our children, shouldn’t we be paying them more not less?

*note: The private sector pays into their pension funds. Come on! They can’t be expected to pay a bit into their OWN pension funds??? Sorry, but hardworking men and women do this all across this country. -TexasSparkle

You really didn’t answer my question. The point is not the fact that they are paying into their pensions. The point is that by doing so they are getting paid less money over all. Have them pay into their pensions no issue their, but raise their salaries proportionally. WI just happens to be in a state that avg teachers salaries are well below what most folks with a BS earn. If you want to attract the best and the brightest you are going to have to pay them more. They should also be held to the highest of standards and should be able to be fired for falling below those standards far easier than they are today due to the Teachers Union.

*note: You can’t get blood from a turnip. When you give Govt money, they spend it. Period. When will we learn this valuable lesson? They don’t “save” pensions. They spend it. All of us think good teachers should be paid better. But when there are teachers that have been accused of sexaul harrasment or other bad things who sit at home being paid full salary and benefits for years and years BECAUSE of the unions, they simply don’t have the money. I wanted-to add this. Wisconsin’s teachers average $70,000, while the average worker averages $50,000. See link below. Texasparkle

YES, it is about the money. Be honest about it because if it’s not about the money, why is it even an issue?

ABC interviewed a teacher who is taking this “hit” and taking it well, accepting this cutback and supporting the governor. Naturally he is a Tea Partier and in full agreement with this plan.

The rest of WI (non-union, that is) have made sacrifices and taken big hits and taken them graciously.

What makes the Unions exempt from cut-backs?

Unions have no place or function anymore. About a hundred years ago, they did. Now they are corrupt beyond belief and it is sickening.

As these thugs screech and take up space and reveal their supreme selfishness, while the cowardly Dems have run off to hide instead of doing their jobs, I pray there be no violence and that no one gets hurt.

If this were only about pension contributions and health care premiums I may agree with you. Unfortunately you left some important details out of your entry such as the elimination of collective bargaining rights for all but salaries. It’d be great if this weren’t required, and I agree in general I have a less than favorable view of union leaders. However, it seems obvious that without these collective bargaining rights, the current leadership in Wisconsin would be more than willing to stick it to hard working residents – that is, unless you voted for the man. Take a look at the unions exempted from this proposal; the blatant political maneuvering is appalling. As with nearly everything, the real truth is somewhere between what each side is saying.

*note: I did indeed address the collective bargaining. But it is because of the collective bargaining for benefits that they are in the mess they are in.-TexasSparkle

In these reckonings, union members are always referred to as “thugs.” Unless they are the union that happens to endorse Rick Perry over Bill White, those unions, strangely, aren’t “thugs.” I have a hard time thinking of teachers as “thugs.” My poor old teachers Mrs Rotilli and Miss Dombeck would be horrified if they were alive today to know that their NEA membership made them “thugs.”

Meanwhile, the protests in Wisconsin aren’t about state workers paying more into pensions or into insurance. It’s about the rights of workers to have democratic representation in the work place, which the governor of Wisconsin is trying to take away. And right when the people all over the Middle East are fighting for their democracy.

The Virginia Tea Party people are traveling to Wisconsin for a counter protest. Perhaps they are also thugs? Or maybe they hate democratic representation?

Additionally, the governor of Wisconsin just handed out a bunch of tax breaks. Any company that moves to Wisconsin won’t pay income tax for two years! I don’t know about you, but I’m sick of supporting the idle rich! My bank keeps adding new fees and penalties, even after it ate all my tax money just to survive! I’m mad. The banks should be forced to eat humble pie.

Of course, this reckoning should address Paul Krugman’s essay, which stated that the State of Texas Budget is just as bad as California’s budget woes. This refudiates the idea that being business friendly makes tax revenues increase, according to Krugman.

The real problem is that all of the government want to meddle in the economy somehow. They are a bunch of incompetent mechanics all under the hood, turning screws and nuts, replacing parts and making adjustments, yet they don’t know what they’re doing and they wonder why the car still doesn’t run.

Another topic that I would love to see this reckoning cover is “Obama, the Conservative War President.” At the most recent count of the New America Foundation, Obama has approved 180 killer drone strikes, compared to 42 approved by Bush from 2004–2008. Can Obama have his Peace Prize revoked?

How many times have you heard the Left decry the sad state of education in this country? They love to use the word “embarrassed” a lot. Well, there’s an eye-opening movie out now called “Waiting For Superman” and it shows how the actions of the teacher’s unions are a reason for this. They’re protecting poor performing teachers just so they’ll keep the union dues coming in. Some teachers have been caught ON CAMERA refusing to do their jobs and they were fired. But the union contracts made them be rehired AND with a year’s backpay.

Oh, be sure to check out the part about the “rubber room”. WoW!

But, in the documentary, educators set up charter schools in some of the most destitute areas of the country and their students not only beat out students in their own income class, they beat EVERYBODY!

Michelle Rhee, the former superintendent of schools for Washington D.C. tried to broker a deal with the teachers and the unions in which teachers COULD make six figure salaries if they excelled at their jobs. Amy Weingarten, president of the American Federation of Teachers, didn’t believe in performance based pay because, in her words, “it divides people”. Ms. Rhee thought that she’d come to an agreement with the unions about her plan but, when time for the vote came, the union leaders balked. They would NOT allow the teachers to even vote on it. THEY made the decision FOR all these teachers. I guess their teachers aren’t intelligent enough to decide for themselves?

I can recall receiving a note from one of our daughter’s third grade teachers in which she wrote, “I’m sorry your so accept”. It was in response to our note to her about poor instructions about homework and the fact that the woman corrected our daughter’s misspelled spelling test words with misspelled words of her own. We were flabbergasted to know that such a person was a teacher.

I think this lurid behavior occuring from the bussed in protesters (in school buses no less) is again helping republicans by further pushing the independent voter away from the dem’s. Obama played this as usual, as a bought and sold union man. It is disgraceful. And when the rubber meets the road, the dem senators run. That tells it all. We won’t get our way so we are leaving. How childish is that? Very.

I have heard that the unions have stated they will accept the lower wages and paying more into their pensions but will not budge on the governor’s attempt to take away their collective bargaining rights. But this is not enough apparently. This isn’t about money, it’s about union busting.

*note: They are not giving up their collective bargaining right for salary, only for benefits, which is what got them into this mess But trust me, union busting IS all about money. It’s about ending people being forced to pay money for others-TexasSparkle

Shocking that you’re against the teachers in this one. This is nothing but union busting from the repubs in an attempt to cut off a major funding source for the Dems. The good governor had a big had in causing this deficit with is hand outs to big business. Now, he wants to the teachers to pay for it. No thanks!

*note: Well, at least you are admitting that unions and the Dems are one and the same. The unions pay off the Dems with big donations and then when the Dems are elected, they shower the unions with goodies. I find it curious that this Governor could have had a hand in this deficit since he has only been in office 8 weeks.-TexasSparkle

A quick review of that list will show of the top 100 donors almost $100 million came from unions that went solid dem. I heard Joe Scarborough mention this morning that unions gave over $200 million in the last election cycle. So while their benefits are being “slashed” they still can fund the heck out of their political benefactors somehow.

Here’s a clue union folks. Most of us pay 100% of the cost of our retirements with our savings or if we’re lucky the growth that those savings garner. Some folks may get a 3%-4% match depending on how much they save or if they purchase company stock. Don’t forget we also contribute 6.5% and our employer has to match another 6.5% towards social security, money most of us will never see paid back to us.

Almost everybody outside of government pays upwards of 40% to 60% of the cost of health insurance premiums if they cover more than themselves and quite a few pay 50% even if they are only opting to cover themselves. That is standard fare in the private sector.

So yes, we are intent on busting the cozy relationship dems have with unions by promising generous benefits that are hidden in unattainable future obligations. I guess the game is up isn’t it? We’ve been caught red handed trying to chart our own destiny.

Some of you responders need to ask yourself why this action is considered necessary. If they do not rein in (there as well in Houston) these costs, their will not be funds for health care or pensions. It is a fact. WI is in difficult straits. They are losing industry and job makers to more favorable climes. Workers in those more favorable places are well compensated. No one wants to take less, but it is better than nothing.

WE have been eating the goose that laid the golden eggs.

The average teacher in Wi pays $700-1000 a year in union dues. They have no choice because these fees are deducted from their salary. The teacher has no choice.

I’m also curious if the average WI salary quoted by the Cloak is for all BS workers, or includes those with only a HS diploma. Again, I have no problems with Teachers being asked to pay into pension funds just like the rest of us do. All I am saying is that they should be getting paid more than they currently do as its the only way you are going to attract better teachers.

*note: I think the link below explains the different numbers. Yours is base salary, mine is base plus benefits-TexasSparkle

I think it would be a great idea if all the pay records for the unionized teachers were cross-checked against video and other records of the protests, and EVERY TEACHER who logged “sick time” while attending protests were prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law for FALSIFICATiON OF A GOVERNMENT DOCUMENT (their time record.) Same with any doctor who aided & abetted this criminal behavior by writing a false “sick note”. Oh, and if the union leaders encouraged / incited this behavior? Send them to prison for a long spell, as well.

Man look at EdT coming on strong. Everybody that pays attention knows the contributions to benefits was not the biggest issue. Heck during the campaign for governor the unions made Scott Walker’s stance on unions having too much influence on BOTH parties was going to lead to him curtailing their power.

It’s not any great revelation that the unions are typically supportive of the Democrats. Just as obviously, the large corporations and their donations more typically fall to the Republicans. What is repugnant in the Wisconsin hoopla is that the union employees are willing to take some of the financial hits, but they do not want to lose the right to bargain collectively…a hard fought benefit. Even more curiously, some unions which happened to support the new Governor are exempted from this purge. Gee, that doesn’t look suspicious now does it? One of the first things the new Gov did was institute additional tax breaks for corporations, further exacerbating the budget crisis. Voodoo Economics didn’t work for Reagan and they STILL don’t work now.

*note: You see, none of what you said is true. You can’t honestly believe that large corps did not support Obama??? Please check out his donor list and get back to me. Dems and Repubs are no different when it comes to corps. The unions that are exempt that you mentioned, police and firefighters DID NOT support Walker for Gov. THere are over 300 of them and only 4 small lesser known groups supported Walker. The larger ones and the majority of them all fought AGAINST Walker. Please get your facts straight before you argue. Please don’t trust the leftwing sites. Do you know where jobs will come from? That would be corporations, the ones you seem to dislike so much. Giving them incentive and more money TO HIRE is a GOOD thing. Good grief.-TexasSparkle

Nice documentary, or should say mockumentary with that soundtrack. And when someone wants the “facts” it always good to be able to the Heritage Foundation. Good one.

There are organizations on the left and right that don’t present balanced information. This is one of those cases.

*note: The Heritiage foundation is well respected by anyone except partisans. So please. I’ve yet to see anything they have written be disputed by reliable sources. Just because you disagree with them doesn’t make them wrong.-TexasSparkle

Public Service unions are corrupt from the start. The union reps lobbies elected officials for benefits and rates promising to contribute to their campaigns. This is why collective bargaining for anything but wages should be eliminated. It is not just democrat’s money or republicans money, it is all taxpayer money and elected officials should not negotiate with that money to assure their reelection.

This is why all the right to work states are gaining businesses and people and strong union states are losing businesses big time. I have no idea why liberals do not see this. The so called enlightened people aren’t so enlightened after all.

The excerpt below was taken from Bill O’Reilly’s latest talking points memo.

“Right now there are 22 right-to-work states in America, places like Texas and Florida, where the unions do not control the negotiating process. The fair thing to do in Wisconsin would be to have a referendum. Let the folks vote on union power.

On a personal note, I’m a member of a union, AFTRA, and when I was working at “Inside Edition” some years ago, the King World company tried to renege on pension benefits. AFTRA took them to court and the case was settled. If the shop had been non-union, we might have been stiffed.

So I understand why unions are needed in America. Workers must have protection against greedy companies that would exploit them. But there has to be a middle ground.”

If O’Reilly can be honest about this topic, why cant texasssparkle?

*note: How am I not being honest? I’ve never said we should have no unions. But unions have to change. They have become corrupt and full of thugs that get rich off the backs of workers. If you are going to work on behalf of workers and get your salary from their work, you shouldn’t be paying yourself a quarter of a million dollars with first class travel,hotel, and expenses. -TexasSparkle

You may want to see what happened to the union pensions when Bethlehem Steel, United Airlines or Delphi Automotive went under.

You are also not comparing similar issues by virtue of the concept of the difference between public employee unions and private employee unions. In private union benefit packages Sarbanes-Oxley will force changes, bankruptcy and sell offs to PROTECT pensioners (Delphi employees are suing the federal government right now following the TARP fiasco that saw GM hourly workers covered but salaried not). Public union pensions are promises made by people that won’t be around to honor them.

All you have to do is look at Texas to see how union membership and high public sector salaries do NOT lead to nor are the cause of any of the fiscal problems states have. Texas, a very conservative republican state, is in deep fiscal trouble. We don’t have collective bargaining; we have low taxes; we have tort reform. And still, we have a huge budget problem, and we have high health care costs. Texas has mandated state accountability tests, and still we lag in educational achievement. Texas has abismal health care for children. Sorry, but the current state budget problem has nothing to do with public employee benefits. The problem is with conservative ideology. Texans are worse off, I mean middle class and poor Texans, are worse off in Texas due to severely low taxes. Couple that with lower revenues due to the recession which was casued by banks marketing fraudent securities packaged with bad, toxic mortgages that were sold to working people’s pension funds and the like, after they were told these securities were AAA rated, which is the fraud; all this caused the recession. Conservatism will lead America to become Brazil, and then ultimately will cause a socialist revolution to occur to right the ship of horrors that conservatives are causing.

John, who said free spending politicians don’t exist in right to work states? The republicans, both voters and political class know that the GOP has dominated the state and the budget for several cycles and the debt is just about entirely on them that created it. The difference is here we can do something about it without having to go through collective bargaining for 18 months to get a minor concession. That is Scott Walker’s whole point about how his state got where it is. Please educate yourself about who allowed public employees to enter into collective bargaining and why he did it. Jonah Goldberg wrote about it yesterday and it is very enlightening. (hint, it was done by executive order with no debate or legislation as the dems in Wisconsin are crying about)

Education and health care for children? Impose the financial burdens that open borders cause and get back to us. You sound like Mizanur and Lisa Falkenberg with that clatter.

That middle class Texans are hurting because taxes are too low is just about too out there to consider. Nobody is saying we shouldn’t pay taxes but if you are in anything but the lowest tax bracket or in the top 5% of earners you are paying more than 50% of your income in federal, state and local taxes. Do your homework please.

Fraudulent securities? Check the drivers of that problem and you will find Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac were the biggest drivers of the housing market distortion. Sure Wall St. exploited the regulations but look a little deeper and see who wrote the legislation and who managed those two enterprises and you find it mostly populated by liberal democrats, not conservative republicans. If there is fraud, and I believe there is, it should be prosecuted to fullest extent possible and any monies recovered.

I never knew Brazil to be a bastion of conservatism but I do note they are poised to develop the largest oil find in the western hemisphere. I’d love to see the US emulate that since Obama gave them several billion in start-up funds prior while curiously banning domestic exploration and production all over the place in the US.

How did Gov. Walker select this group to be the ones who get to pay extra taxes to solve the budget problems?

If I work somewhere, and the government says I have to give them more money to get the same thing I got last year, I consider it a tax increase. The fact that the people Gov. Walker chose were teachers, nurses, trashmen, snow plow drivers, and other state employees to foist this new tax on rather than going after people who actually have some money is very telling.

The fact that most “conservatives” are buying into this tax increase on a selected few professions (because they belong to unions) and somehow justifying it is ridiculous.

Also, shouldn’t “conservatives” be advocating to allow the local governments the right to decide whether or not they are willing to negotiate with the Unions, and what they are willing to pay their teachers, and infra-structure maintenance workers? How is it okay that the state can grab this power away from the local governments without a word of outrage from “conservatives”?

It couldn’t be more clear that what Gov. Walker wants is to bust the Unions that didn’t support him. And “conservatives” somehow think this makes him a hero. He’s simply so partisan that he puts politics over principle, which should not be applauded.

Get a clue, public sector unions are not needed. They are simply a mechanism to fleece the future and now that we can see the magnitude, the future is now. Because they face the prospect of not making it through their next shift, an exception should be made for police and firemen to have well funded pensions paid for by the ones they protect.

How do you libs think this will work when if we continue down this road there will be a bunch of slack time 50 year olds being supported by working 70 year olds?

There are many examples of private sector union members losing their pensions when the companies they and their management ran into the ground. Public employees that have planned for their retirement by funding unions that poured their dues into influencing their benefits packages invested poorly. They will not be made whole as we are bankrupt and they helped make it that way.

If a person is under 40 and thinks the status quo will be there, look at the middle aged ragers in Wisconsin and Ohio today. They are flailing because they are cornered. After burning though 152 weeks of unemployment benefits what are they left with? No money, no prospects for recapturing what they are losing everyday and no time to make it up. What do you believe working people who are saving for their own future owe them?

I responded to libtony last night and went to bed thinking about the situation. It occurs to me that the plight of the unions with their unfunded pensions is not far from what those of us in the private sector will be faced with.

I know from my efforts to build my retirement that throwing money into my 401(k) and IRA’s and my other attemts to build my portfolio have basically netted the same growth over the last ten years that sticking it in a box under the bed would have performed. The heartburn of watching the value drop 40% in 2008 only to see it climb back to almost where it was under the most shaky of circumstances does not engender security.

That is not so different from a person who has contributed to the election of union friendy democrats who (along with many republicans) have promised generous retirement benefits and apparently have failed to fund same over the years. They basically invested in politics.

In the end most everyone will be seeing way less for their efforts to plan for the future than their parents did. In this regard, unfunded public employeee union pensions and private portfolios that have not grown as in the past are both showing to be woefully inadequate to support our expectations.

I have a feeling a choice will have to be made and quickly. Either we band together as a nation and solve this problem or we go down clutching at each others throats. But be sure, we should not rely on the ones who got us here to get us out. Big structural changes need to be made.

The idea that our president proposes a budget that piles another $1.6 billion on the $3 billion he has already added in debt gets met by a resurgent republican house that can’t even get past a 3% reduction IN THAT DEBT tells me we are a ship of fools being guided by imbeciles.