So is the pressure on Superman?

I'm expecting another two or three year pause and another non Batman Nolan picture before we see the third and final Nolan film. I think he's only going to make three as well. What is his contract situation? I think I remember reading waaaaay back last summer in the Justice League thread someone saying that Christian Bale had a three picture deal with Warner Bros? Was that three BATMAN pictures or three Warner Bros movies?

Returning to the original topic, can another Superman film start filming in early 2009 and still make it onto the Summer 2010 schedule?

Click to expand...

Then the ball needs to get rolling. I don't see another Superman film making it to 2010 with Bryan Singer as director; he is knee-deep in post-production on Valkryie, and still re-shooting some scenes or having recently shot them.

The film isn't due until 2009 and I don't think Singer will want to primarily focus his efforts on another project like Superman until he is done with his current one.

2011 might be feasible.

Click to expand...

I don't think 2010 is looking likely either. And Warners will presumably want to get the next Nolan/Bale Batman film out in the summer of 2011, and I don't see them releasing a Superman film in the same year (unless they gave it a Christmas release - although I don't think they'd do so). If Superman slips back to 2012 then I think they'll go with a new cast and director and start from scratch.

Click to expand...

I pray it doesn't come to that.

I think that producing a new Superman film should be easier, not harder, now that all parties have had the experience of Superman Returns. I hope the remainder of 2008 will bring some positive developments. I want the studio to hold on to the cast of SR. I certainly don't want Brandon Routh to become the George Lazenby of the film franchise.

Then the ball needs to get rolling. I don't see another Superman film making it to 2010 with Bryan Singer as director; he is knee-deep in post-production on Valkryie, and still re-shooting some scenes or having recently shot them.

The film isn't due until 2009 and I don't think Singer will want to primarily focus his efforts on another project like Superman until he is done with his current one.

2011 might be feasible.

Click to expand...

I don't think 2010 is looking likely either. And Warners will presumably want to get the next Nolan/Bale Batman film out in the summer of 2011, and I don't see them releasing a Superman film in the same year (unless they gave it a Christmas release - although I don't think they'd do so). If Superman slips back to 2012 then I think they'll go with a new cast and director and start from scratch.

Click to expand...

I pray it doesn't come to that.

I think that producing a new Superman film should be easier, not harder, now that all parties have had the experience of Superman Returns. I hope the remainder of 2008 will bring some positive developments. I want the studio to hold on to the cast of SR. I certainly don't want Brandon Routh to become the George Lazenby of the film franchise.

Click to expand...

I would tend to agree. The cast & creative crew is for the most part in place. The world is pretty much established. Re-figuring that out would just add more time for the development of the film. This is in many ways a Spider-Man 2 or Iron Man 2 situation where the world is established so if you wanted to do the movie in less than two years you conceivably, hopefully, could.

It is Superman, what is to develop? If there was one character just about everyone in the civilized world knows, then it is Superman. That is why it is so baffling that they messed it up the first time and it took years do even get that done.

The only problem with doing a Superman movie is that the people that would make the movie are those type of people that try to relate to Superman instead of just excepting who he is. They either can't believe someone like Superman could exist or even if he does they don't buy into what he represents.

If we get Superman back to fighting for truth, tolerance and justice then all will be well. I can just hope.

The only problem with doing a Superman movie is that the people that would make the movie are those type of people that try to relate to Superman instead of just excepting who he is. They either can't believe someone like Superman could exist or even if he does they don't buy into what he represents.

If we get Superman back to fighting for truth, tolerance and justice then all will be well. I can just hope.

Click to expand...

I see a contradiction in these statements. It's "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Accept it, buy into it.

"the American way" was added in the 50s to the radio show; Siegel and Shuster's original creation was just "Truth and Justice". Given the importance of international markets, we've now come full-circle.

The only problem with doing a Superman movie is that the people that would make the movie are those type of people that try to relate to Superman instead of just excepting who he is. They either can't believe someone like Superman could exist or even if he does they don't buy into what he represents.

If we get Superman back to fighting for truth, tolerance and justice then all will be well. I can just hope.

Click to expand...

I see a contradiction in these statements. It's "Truth, Justice, and the American Way". Accept it, buy into it.

Click to expand...

Yeah, honestly, the intentional exclusion of that (to make the flick play better with audiences hostile to "the American Way" rankled me a bit.

Thing is, "The American Way" is an ideal... and whether or not you believe that America has ever, in reality, actually lived up to the ideal has nothing to do with whether or not the saying is relevant.

If you want to replace that line with something... it should be with the closest approximation to what "The American Way" is supposed to mean.

"Truth, Justice, Freedom and Individual Responsibility" If that really want to change it, I could live with that change.

But not "tolerance." Why not? Because I've seen more intolerance perpetrated in the past several decades in the name of "tolerance" than under any other guise.

"Tolerance" means all sorts of things, depending on what you're talking about... and nobody ever really means "be tolerant of everything." They always mean "be tolerant of what I want, but I don't have to be tolerant of what you want."

There are lots of things I'm not inclined to be tolerant of. Dictatorships... nope, not tolerant of that. Lies... nope, not tolerant of that. Murder... nope, not tolerant of that. Suppression of free speech... nope, not tolerant of that.

Damn, I'm pretty intolerant, aren't I? But if you're honest, most of you are too...

"Tolerance" is just a mask for suppressing opposing viewpoints... by calling those opposing viewpoints "intolerant" and thus making them intolerable. The irony shouldn't be lost on anyone...

"Tolerance" is just a mask for suppressing opposing viewpoints... by calling those opposing viewpoints "intolerant" and thus making them intolerable. The irony shouldn't be lost on anyone...

Click to expand...

Yes, but the clarion cry against tolerance isn't against a tolerance that defends dictatorships, lies, etc. It is tolerance for viewpoints that those who don't like tolerance don't care for. And they mask their intolerance for those alternative viewpoints in "free speech".

First it was Truth and Justice. Next it was Truth, Tolerance and Justice. In the 50's it was added to what everyone knows "a never-ending battle for truth, justice and the American way.", in the 60's it was changed to "truth, justice and freedom."

Since then all of these have been used depending on who was telling the tale. I personally like truth, justice, and freedom in our world today.

"Truth, Justice and the American Way" was first used on the radio show in 1942, and the phrase went back to just "Truth and Justice" a year or two later. "Truth, Tolerance and Justice" was used in the Kirk Alyn serial in 1948. "Truth, Justice and the American Way" came back in the 1950s. Lois & Clark in the 1990s reverted back to the original "Truth and Justice", and I don't recall anybody raising a ruckus about it. The problem with the approach they used in Superman Returns is that by having Perry say "Truth, Justice and all that stuff" it drew attention to "the American Way" being left out and to some even seemed dismissive.

The only reason they took out the "American Way" was because Singer thought audiences would find it too corny (and frankly I can't imagine Frank Langella saying that whole phrase with a straight face either; his Perry was just not a corny kind of guy).

Unfortunately, Singer didn't count on the conservative crowd that loves to get deeply offended and morally outraged at every little thing.

It was:
1. "Truth and Justice" the beginning 1941?
2. "Truth, Justice and the American way" (radio 1942-1944)
3. "Truth, tolerance, and justice (serial 1948)
4 "Truth, Justice and the American way" (when it the TV show made it the signature phrase. 1952-1958)
4 "Truth, Justice, and Freedom" (cartoon 1966)
5 "Truth, Justice and the American way" Superman: The Movie

again I think different writers have used different things depending on their feelings. Lois and Clark went back to "Truth and Justice" I thinkt the 80's cartoon said "Truth, Justice and the American way".

Thing is, "The American Way" is an ideal... and whether or not you believe that America has ever, in reality, actually lived up to the ideal has nothing to do with whether or not the saying is relevant.

Click to expand...

Exactly. If one remembers when Supes said that in Superman: The Movie, Lois balks at it claiming that he'll have to fight every elected official around. Supes doesn't fight for "America! Fuck yeah!" Rather, it's what America is suppose to stand for.