How to Handle People Who Undermine Your Success

Do you have someone in your life who is a bad influence when it comes to your financial or career goals?

I’ve known a people like that. Typically this happens when you’re trying to make new, positive changes in your life. For example, when I decided to not buy a new car for awhile, one friend gave me a hard time about it, making fun of my choice to save money before buying another vehicle. “I don’t get it — what exactly are you saving for?” she asked.

Toxic people undermine your success
I hate to label people as “toxic”, but I can’t think of a better word for people who tease you, make fun of your positive life choices, and don’t support your goals or respect the time and effort you spend to achieve them.

In my experience, it’s not that these people are cruel and out to get you. The real issue is that your success signals their failure.

You’ve heard the story (or maybe experienced it yourself) of the person who tries to lose weight, and their overweight friend undermines their success by tempting them with food or making fun of how much time they spend at the gym. Likewise, if you’ve decided to eat at restaurants less so you can build an emergency fund, a toxic friend might complain that you’re “cheap” or “no fun” because really, he knows his own finances are a mess and doesn’t want to address it!

But the problem with having toxic people in your life is that it can affect your attitude and your ability to reach your goals. When the people around you are constantly making negative remarks about your new, positive habits, it can start to get to you.

If, for example, you go the extra mile at work and a coworker makes fun of you for being a perfectionist, it can be tough to take. Or if you’re excited about moving into a smaller home so you can save for retirement and your friend makes fun of your house, it stings.

At best, it’s hurtful. At worst, it can undermine your financial and career success.

Are you loyal to a fault?
The real problem with toxic relationships is that we tend to stick with them. According to a joint survey conducted by TODAY.com and SELF magazine, 83% of those polled said they held onto a friendship longer than was healthy because it was so hard to break things off with a friend.

Why is that? Friendships, even negative ones, feel familiar, which makes them difficult to end, even if your “friend” is making fun of your efforts to save for retirement and pay off the mortgage. Also, there’s the guilt factor. Despite how selfish or cruel someone is being (or maybe because of it, if you realize it stems from their insecurity), you feel guilty for acting in your own best interest.

Finally, sometimes we stick around because we don’t have a choice. It’s not easy to cut ties with a family member, coworker, or neighbor, because you still have them in your life in some capacity.

Extracting yourself from toxic relationships
If you suspect that a person in your life is undermining your goals, first, identify how they lead you astray.

Does this person routinely criticize or undermine the positive goals you’ve set, making you feel like they’re dumb or not worthwhile? Do they encourage you to spend beyond your budget, even after you’ve shared your goals?

If the relationship is harmful, then you have to decide what’s to be done about it.

You could do one of two things:

End the friendship. This is a pretty straightforward approach — you cut off communication and the relationship is over.

Learn how to handle the person. If it’s your mom insisting you “deserve” to buy yourself a $300 pair of shoes or a coworker teasing you for “sucking up” when you’re only trying to do a good job, you can’t cut off contact so easily. (Well, maybe you can try, but in most cases the fallout will make things worse!)

So let’s say that you’ve decided (or you’re forced) to continue to deal with this person. How can you handle them so that your success isn’t derailed? Here are a few options:

Be straightforward and inclusive. Be upfront about your financial goals, and try inviting them to participate with you. “I’ve been trying to save an emergency fund, would you be interested in joining me so we can do it together?”

Spend less energy on the relationship. If honesty and a “team” approach don’t work, you might need to pull away from the friendship. This might mean hiding their Facebook status updates, hanging out less often, or slowly reducing your lunch dates from three times a week to once a month.

Focus on the good. Is there an activity that brings the two of you together in a positive way? Maybe when you do things as a part of a group, your friend doesn’t make negative comments. Or maybe when you go for a run together, he or she is too out-of-breath to make dismissive comments! Do more of those things and drop the kinds of social activities where your friend is more prone to undermine and criticize.

Finally, don’t forget you can expand your social circle! Find more like-minded friends who share your goals, take a successful coworker to lunch, or seek out a mentor to keep you motivated and on the right track.

I’m sure everyone has their own stories about toxic friendships, so let’s share in the comments! How did you deal with it? What lessons did you learn?

My old boss used to do this! He and his wife were living on $100,000+ a year and yet still managing to spend more than they made. He would make fun of me for bringing my own lunch and sleeping on a mattress on the floor instead of buying a bed frame when I was putting everything toward my debt. Lucky for me I was able to keep things in perspective because I knew I didn’t want to be like him! The hard friendships for me are the ones based around going out and spending money (shopping, drinking, eating, etc.) My friends all live on the opposite side of town to me so we like to meet in the middle to catch up. Finding things to do that are free can be a challenge!

When my husband and I were newly married and poor as church mice, we used to take walks around a park (or our local mall in poor weather) just to get out of the house. We didn’t buy anything, but it was fun to people-watch, and it was free!

I agree that it can be hard on friendships when one person is a saver and one person is a spender. I can’t tell you how many times I have been asked out to a concert, expensive dinner, or event because it didn’t fit in my budget at that particular moment.
Fortunately, true friends will understand and are willing to cook out and play cards..or do other various free things. Those are the friends worth treasuring.

Unfortunately, I have some family members who used to try to have birthday get togethers at expensive restaurants..or suggest expensive presents for our parents for all of us to split. Luckily, I put an end to that. I will always be made fun of by my siblings for being cheap…and I don’t care!

I also have friends that need to be spending money to feel entertained. There have been so many times that I have said no to a concert, weekend trip, or expensive dinner out because it didn’t fit in my budget at that time. Fortunately, true friends will understand. True friends who legitimately want to spend time with you will grill out and play cards.

I have family members who used to come up with all kinds of ways to spend everyone else’s money- birthday dinners at expensive restaurants out, expensive gifts for everyone to “go in” on, etc. I have put an end to it luckily. My family will always make fun of me for being frugal and I just don’t really care anymore.

My boss will pay off his debt when he is almost a hundred years old. He cannot understand I like to save, that I consider that getting a loan to pay for a old car is stupid in most of the situations, etc. He’s a great professional, but handles his finances like crap.

In general, as I have a side income, almost nobody knows how much I’m really making, so they think I make substantially less. That allows me to have more freedom. In addition, I’ve got the excuse of going to a very expensive trip, but nobody know that at the moment I’m saving 20% of my pre-taxes income plus the trip money.

But people is mad. My dad drove a car until it became 19 years old. He just bought a new one because the old one was too expensive to keep (something used to break every month) and fuel economy was poor. His siblings have been telling him to buy a new one for five years. They couldn’t understand that until one year he had a reliable car and there was no need to get a new one. I mean, is not their business what kind of car he drives. His siblings should care more about their finances and less about my dad’s car.

I have a few people in my life who fit this description, and it is so disheartening to talk to them. I can’t cut them out of my life – they’re FAAAAMILY – so I learned the hard way not to ask for advice (that opens the door to criticism) and to keep my mouth shut in terms of finances.

With family I agree with keeping your mouth shut and ceasing to ask for advice. Bumming money monthly from their parents to cover their spending, phone’s ringer turned down because of the constant collection calls, hiding their car in a neighbors garage to keep it from being repossessed, and they’ll still tell you how dumb you are for buying a used car or how cheap you are for not wanting to splurge on take out even when everyone knows they’ll short their share of bill and your mother/aunt/cousin will end up covering for them. They’re like the dirty little secret not to be talked about except in hushed whispers behind closed doors.

Well, you actually can cut toxic family out of your life if you really want to. My mother is scarily like Livia Soprano, with serious mental health issues, & my only sister hit on every guy I dated. I didn’t talk to my mother for five years at one point. And moving thousands of miles away, to a different country, helped too.

Great article April! In my situation, I find that it’s my family that are the most difficult. They’ve always been poor, bad with money, and in debt, and they have trouble accepting the practices that I use to keep me out of their situation. They tell me things like, “You make good money; you should live a little” when I’m living just fine.

I totally agree that to a large extent “my success signals their failure.” The better I do and the more responsibly I mange my finances and spending, the more it shows that they aren’t doing that.

Yes! It’s my family that mostly makes comments like this and it’s annoying because I feel like maybe I should defend myself and my wife and our choices, but then I think I shouldn’t have to. ?? But, many of my family members are in debt and many are overweight, and they constantly struggle with these things…. so my family getting our act together surely could signal their failures.

“The better I do and the more responsibly I mange my finances and spending, the more it shows that they aren’t doing that.”

Even MORE unforgivable is that you’re proving to them that it was possible ALL ALONG to do it.

People like to believe they “had no choice” because external factors “forced” them to make the decisions they made. Seeing another succeed is tantamount to saying, “See? There were always choices, you just consistently made dumb ones.”

“People like to believe they “had no choice” because external factors “forced” them to make the decisions they made. Seeing another succeed is tantamount to saying, “See? There were always choices, you just consistently made dumb ones.”"

Ahhhh! Flashbacks to being called a “browner” and “goodie two shoes” in school! (And probably worse things behind my back.) I didn’t let it stop me from working for high marks, but I did notice those attitudes stopped some of my students. It was ridiculous — no one expected the star athletes to give less than their best in order to spare other people’s feelings.

I think the point about how others feel our successes point out their failures is spot on. I’ve had people run me down about things, but when I looked closer I realized there were things in their lives they weren’t happy about and they were projecting them on me. With friends, I can sit down and say “Is everything okay? Do you want to talk about anything?” but critique from extended family is harder to deal with.

Since I am secure in our goals and habits when it comes to personal finance, I don’t really have a problem with some push back by friends.

Honestly, I like to hear what others are doing or not doing when it comes to finances because I think most people don’t like to talk about it.

When we were paying off all our unsecured debt, in 2007, I openly shared the goal with many friends and shared my progress along the way. I can remember being at happy hour and one of my good friends was talking about a planned trip to Ireland, she asked me any big plans for travel and I said no we’ve got $23,472 left to go to on our unsecured debt (we started with $55,000)+.

She and my other close friend were very supportive of our goals, but it was funny in that they said, I wish I could pay off my school loans (we were paying off Mr. Sam’s MBA loan at the time) and I pushed back and said you could if you didn’t take trips to Europe. I said it with a smile and we all laughed.

When I am at my book club, I like to hear about others who have a new car or a new leased car or that I’m the only one out of 7 professional women who (we are all in the same profession) that doesn’t have a cleaning service. I’d like to have someone else clean my house but I don’t really want to put my money on that type of service right now.

Yesterday I went out to lunch with some of my co-workers. If you read my blog you know that I’m trying to cut down, this is a 2012 goal, on how much I spend eating out. I’m working on this goal for a variety of reasons, I’d rather spend my eating out money on one great meal per week rather than eating out everyday, I’d rather put some of that eating out money towards more important things like travel/vacation/art, or I’d rather save the money. I also feel that its a health thing as well. So I went out to eat yesterday and my coworkers gave me some gentle ribbing, but I reminded them that there is a good chance that Mr. Sam, whose company is being bought, may lose his job by the end of the year. So I’d rather save my pennies than eat out.

I find that checking in with my peers and friends reminds me that I’m traveling a different path. Being different is good.

It’s like you read my mind! Sadly, my toxic relationships include members of my family. I wish I could go back in time and to never have mentioned my financial and career goals to them. This way they have no ammo.

I think I would have more trouble with this if I weren’t already so open about my financial struggles. My friends and family all have a very good idea of how much I make, how much I owe, that I spend 80% of my money on healthcare and student loan debt, and that I cannot afford to pay rent anywhere in the area. When I say I can’t afford something, no one asks why because they already know. In the future, I imagine this might become more of an issue, but I also imagine that I would explain with things like, “I can’t afford this because saving money for XYZ is a higher priority to me than going to see a comic on stage.”

It’s mostly the coworkers who are bad influence on me. They always want to go out and eat and spend money on various events. They are making pretty good money so it’s not a big deal, but I’m working toward leaving my job so it’s not good for me to be spending a lot of money. It’s hard to be close friends to people who are undermining your goals.

I have this problem too, the coworkers that eat out every day, I’ve generally solved the problem by committing to eating out once a week with coworkers or clients or an event. I find that if I eat out once a week or regularly with my coworkers, it ends up being about once every two weeks b/c of other lunches with clients, I stay in the loop and up to speed on gossip and the like. Maintaining the social connections with my boss and coworkers are important so its worth it to me to eat out with them on this schedule.

Oh, yes, I have been there! I had a friend who used to heckle me relentlessly to spend more money. We are not friends now because essentially, we grew to the point the friendship no longer worked (she was a very toxic friend and I walked away). In the past 5 years, she and her husband have had every financial struggle (from bad choices) possible while my husband and I are pursuing our dreams. I wouldn’t have walked away had it just been about money, but the money heckling, even with my pushback, was getting old.

What I think this really comes down to is being inauthentic. A lot of people don’t believe it is okay to just be themselves. They believe they have to become what other people want them to be in order to liked, loved, and to be friends.

How many of us, deep down, are really looking for approval when we buy that new car, that new shirt, or take that trip to Ireland?

The need for external validation and approval from others prevents us from being our true selves and actually blocks us from getting what we want – typically healthy finances – but also happiness and love.

I get asked all the time to go out for lunch when I’m at work. I always say I brown bagged it and I always get the response “just leave it for tomorrow”. Well no, I brought it for today’s lunch and I’m going to eat it for today’s lunch and I am going to be off this wage slave ship way sooner than all y’all because of it!

I had a friend like this. She would buy name brand clothes, even for her 13 year old, although they make about $30,000 net a year. OTOH around me she’d act like she was cheap. Some people just need to decide who they want to be.

After discussing it with my therapist I cut off the relationship.

We still see each other but it’s in a group setting and I try not to talk about finance or much personal. It was hard but I’m happy to not have that influence of money around me when I’m trying to be content and keep my life simple.

A typical line she said the other day was no one can save money, we all spend what we earn. Not true. We have low income but we save $87.99 a month! (Just canceled Netflix!!)

I think often our default reaction to being judged is to judge the other person/people in return. If we truly are being ourselves, then our goals shouldn’t be a reflection on anyone else. Does doing this or that make us better or worse than anyone else? It doesn’t matter so long as it’s right for us as individuals.

One of my biggest regrets is giving into the pressure of an engagement ring. I never wear rings as I work with my hands a lot. But friends, family, and hubby thought I was crazy. So I caved and over the next three years I probably wore it a total of 20 times. I would sell it if I could recoup the costs. But since I can’t, I keep it as a reminder to not to give into pressure.

Whenever well-meaning friends bug me about kids, I remind them of my engagement ring story. Just because everyone else has one no longer works for me.

When we got engaged in 1981, we were REALLY broke college students…and put our available money into nice gold wedding rings, instead.
No engagement ring, though that was a huge tradition in Michigan, where I grew up.
Flash forward to 31-plus years later, and Husband has a huge promotion coming in. Guess what’s on the top of his list — an engagement ring! (And no diamonds…our daughter, a gemologist, says other stones are actually more valuable.)
I remember hearing about German couples, who would use wedding rings to announce their engaged status — by wearing the ring on the other hand. When they married, the ring switched to its customary place.

I like that tradition, but when one hand (in my case, the right)is larger than the other by 1/2 ring size, it doesn’t work too well.

I like the idea of just having one ring though – the wedding ring, or a very simple band for one or both. I’m not big on “bling”.

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Ellen K.says:

06 June 2012 at 12:03 pm

I have a Tiffany diamond band that served as both my engagement ring and wedding ring. It was my idea and I have never regretted it in our 10 years of marriage. I didn’t know it was a German tradition — I’ll have to tell my German American husband about this! I can’t say he got a lot of credit for it from our friends and relatives, who thought he was being cheap for not overriding my preference.

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TuppenceBeresfordsays:

06 June 2012 at 8:35 pm

ooh, I’m about to go to school to be a gemologist. Did your daughter go to GIA?

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Kimsays:

06 June 2012 at 5:00 pm

When my beloved and I decided we would marry someday, he was in a bad financial situation, we were living several hundred miles apart for a considerable time, and I wouldn’t let him buy me an engagement ring. Or a wedding ring once we married and made a home together. Financial security was more important.

I’m not much for jewelry, but I had a ring made of colored glass in my collection, so I started wearing that just to send the signal that I wasn’t “available”.

When anyone remarked on the unusual ring, I would explain “glass, when properly cared for, is stronger than steel. Just like a relationship, if you protect it from the small nicks that will weaken it, it will last forever.”

There’s a technique, I think in judo (real martial artists should feel free to correct me), where you use your opponent’s energy against them – e.g., when they lunge at you, you don’t try to block them but instead sidestep and then pull them in the direction they’re already going so they can’t do anything to you until they recover. That’s kind of what I do with underminers.

Even when I totally disagree with their stance, I acknowledge it in a “wouldn’t it be nice” way and change the subject, or “yeah, you’re right,” and then just keep doing what I’m doing.

For example: UMer: “Don’t you know it’s useless to try and save money? Life will just find a way to take it from you.” Me: “Yeah, that could happen. Hey, did you catch last night’s episode…” Or, UMer: “You should buy a new car, yours sucks.” Me: “OMG, I’d love a new car! That’d be great.” and not bother doing anything to buy a new car.

With family members, I act out the part of listener: just listening to them go on about their difficulties without offering advice to change (since I’ve tried that and it was like trying to bounce a lead ball). They rarely ask me about my situation, and I let them believe I’m in the same boat they are.

Occasional mouthiness helps. I’ve answered, “You are such a bitch,” with, “It’s true, I am.” Nothing more. This usually ends the conversation.

Laura,
I have a similar response to people who have said something I disagree with but with whom I don’t want to argue with or otherwise discuss the issue with. I nod and say, “I can see why you might think that.” This generally stops or confuses even the most confrontational person as there is nothing to argue with. I haven’t agreed or disagreed but have acknowledged their view point.

Your “opponent” can use Judo against you as well. That’s why in my experience, it’s best to give as little reasoning about your decisions as you can, at least when dealing with toxic friends and salespeople.

My late FIL lived with us until he passed away. When I talked about our savings account, he would get upset and tried to insult me trying to save. I knew he was struggling financially, after all that is why he was living with us. A very noble deed but he sacrificed his financial security to make everyone else happy.

My husband was raised to handle financial situations the same way–break yourself to please everyone else. I have had to really work hard to break his habits but even talking about money with him is difficult. He is getting better everyday and is finally thinking about his own future rather than trying to please everyone else.

Many people make me feel bad because I am a housewife and I do not have kids. It’s usually men that make these comments and they say things like I should be kissing my husbands feet! They also think that I am like Peggy Bundy or a Bravo Housewife. I am neither.

When people meet me for the first time and find out that I am a housewife, they naturally assume that I am rich or come from wealth. And then they tell me that I do not know what it is like to be poor. At that point I usually get upset and start defending myself and tell them that I was born and raised in Communist China. I lived with 6 adults in a 500sq room without indoor plumbing and used ration tickets to buy food, so I definitely know what it’s like to be poor. And that’s when the conversation ends.

I’ve had lots of negativity over the years from co-workers about mine and my husband’s saving habits. However; when my car breaks down, I write the mechanic a check for the entire amount. Yes, we are currently saving a future car payment each month until it dies. When my air conditioner in our house went out and wasn’t covered, we wrote a check for $3500 to replace it. I’m proud of being frugal and I don’t let that kind of stuff get to me. I laugh at my own car, being 10 years old and part of it holding together with duct tape. I say, “come on, one more year car!”. As far as personal, close friends, I have thinned out the herd so to speak and surround myself with positive, supportive people that can laugh with me and not at me.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here and suggest that perhaps your friends and family may tease you as a means of testing your friendship and the social boundaries of your frugality. Instead of them looking at your success and seeing their failure perhaps sometimes they look at your success and wonder if there is still a place for them (including their choices) in your life.

Now I’m sure that is not always the case, but it could very well be for many. I know in my efforts at becoming financially free, I have been open about my financial situation and frequently (politely) reject my coworker’s offer to join them for lunches. This signals to them that, at least in this way, I will not be a part of their group. Am I able to participate socially with them in other relms? Sure. But here’s the rub, if I made a change in my lifestyle after becoming friends, it not a leap to see how they may simply be trying to figure out where you stand now.

Having said all that, sometime it is as the author says. People can be very jealous and little. But there’s a reason you became friends in the first place. And sometimes if there seems to be some tension it may be partially your own doing.

I have get this from my brother from time to time. I once had a conversation with him about my current job, and whether they will hire me after my apprenticeship ends. I told him that if they offered me the job then i would accept enthusiastically, but if i didn’t see any growth in my role within 6 months (eg not just doing the same old stuff i’m doing as an apprentice now) then i’ll start looking for another job immediately. He shot me down with;
“well it’s not all about money El, i’m happy where i am and you should just be grateful that you have a job”
I might add that he’s a security guard, working 60 hours a week on minimum wage, living in a house that he hates, with a car he can’t afford. We don’t share the same aspirational spirit, and whilst i admire him for being ‘happy’ where he is, i can’t help but detect a hint of jealousy that i’m setting out career goals for myself, something that he’s never managed to do. And in my eyes it’s not something i want to do for the money, but for the job satisfaction. I’m sticking to my six month plan. Assuming i get the job

I have had to put distance between myself and my family as they were constantly undermining my pursuit of my goals. They are not horrible people, far from it, but I believe the problem is that they cannot adjust their ideas of me as I make changes in my life. To paraphrase a recent article, there must be a statute of limitations on poor behaviour!! I’ve finally got my financial house in order, with attainable future goals, and have finally learned to live a peaceful, balanced life. This is to be celebrated, not denigrated.

To quote you “The real problem with toxic relationships is that we tend to stick with them. According to a joint survey conducted by TODAY.com and SELF magazine, 83% of those polled said they held onto a friendship longer than was healthy because it was so hard to break things off with a friend.”

I disagree. It is impossible to break things off with a friend. But these people “ARE NOT FRIENDS”, they just are not enemies. What is hard is to potentially choose to be alone, It is this social alternative, better to hang with a “jerk” than to hang out alone that people cling to in my humble opinion.

Thankfully this don’t come up very often since I tend to keep my lifestyle and finances to myself, but every once in a while I get the, “you should travel this summer, you deserve it” line. When I tell them that I spent over two years paying $700+/month on health care costs on disability income and I need to invest more money in related costs in the next year, that’s when the conversation end.

They are right, I could use some time away – the last few years have been Hell on Earth, but unless they can assist with that, there’s nothing else to say on the topic, and we move on from there.

Try this: feign utter delight and thank them profusely for their generosity! “Thank you so much! I DO deserve it, but I never thought a friend like you would offer to send me on a vacation! What did you have in mind?”

The best way out of toxic relationships is cultivating new ones. Then we naturally become “too busy” for the toxic ones. It’s much harder to withdraw from relationships when we naturally like to have friends to relate to.

On a different note: it also helps to not flaunt our good decisions. Just do it, no need to broadcast it…

This term has been going around the internet in this way and I really dislike it. A toxic friend is one who deliberately makes you feel bad (perhaps so they can pump themselves up). It’s not a friend (or relative) who doesn’t agree with your choices or can’t understand them and makes a few comments. It’s likely your friend or relative was always free with the opinions. You just liked them better when they were directed at someone else.

I recognize that because I’m different, others are different too. But I also know that others can’t always make that leap.

Finding someone toxic because they can’t understand your choices or make comments may be as much about how fragile that choice is as it is about the other person. I’m used to walking my own path, so when I do so it’s an experience I am comfortable with. I have lots of experience making such choices. Most of the bad decisions I’ve made have been because I made the choices others were making.

Someone who is new to being a little different than others find it more difficult to hold fast against an onslaught of complaints from friends or comments about their choices. Some of those comments might be justified (if insensitive). It does suck when a friend no longer has money to do the fun things he used to do with you. And it may actually BE selfish to ignore your friends to go to the gym!

I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt when people mock your choices. Been there ALOT. Not fun. But it’s not fair to label it as toxic unless it becomes a large part of the interaction.

Not everyone has to approve and rave about your choices. (Though a little politeness would be nice…) It can happen on the other side too. My partner’s family was aghast when his brother took off a month of work and spent 10K on a holiday. His choice got a cold shoulder from his family.

I have loosely experienced this and find a lot of truth in this article.

But I do think this is a lot more true when you make a big life change. It’s kind of like AA – you need new/supportive friends and habits. Old friends may mean well but keep you in a bad place.

For me personally, I have always had supportive and like-minded family and friends. We have a debt-free lifestyle as our parents did before us. As such, I didn’t quite understand how *weird* this was until we moved to a new city. Starting from scratch on the friend front put me in some uncomfortable situations. Looking back, I see I made several people very uncomfortable and they honestly just didn’t trust or believe me (that I had no debts, etc.). Anyway, I had a few very short friendships that ended very quickly over our financial differences. I share because it wasn’t so much I had to cut the toxic people as much as I really seemed to piss off the toxic people with my very being. I didn’t have to say anything to piss them off – there was an underlying feeling that there was no way we could have worked for our success and so these people would never like or respect me. (Though some have come around with time and maturity).

I’ve learned a lot in the process and am much more quickly able to weed out the toxic people. But, when you have success and confidence, you really do not attract toxic people to begin with. IT kind of takes care of itself, at some point. IF you are just now making big financial choices, you are going to have a rough road ahead on the friendship/support front. But over time you will attract more like-minded people.

It’s hard to describe at times how I don’t jusge my friend by their level of debt or their financial views, BUT I do find that I have so much more in common with people, on every level, when they are either of the same financial mind, OR when they are trying to move forward and better their finances. But then again I feel it has less to do with my judgement and choice and is more to the point that if I meet someone who wants to spend $50 every weekend, I simply have to say no. A friendship like that is just not going to go anywhere – I can’t afford it!

My husband and I were frugal before it was “cool” to be frugal. So many people told us to upgrade our house during the housing boom we did start questioning ourselves. But we stuck with our goals. And now we know lots of people who cut coupons, do “no spend” months, and who much more rather hang out at each other’s homes (BYOB) than go out. We just had to wait until the rest of the world caught up with us.

For me this is the main reason why I do not talk about my success with being frugal and living from my investments. I drive a 12 year old but very well maintained car and live in a small house with my wife and our 5 kids. We also live very comfortably from our invested capital, which by the way is still growing nicely. But I never talk about it. Only 2 friends know some of the details, as they are trying to do the same and are slowly succeeding.

Haters gonna hate. And that’s all there is to it. People sometimes by nature like to shoot down ideas — so when you have an idea, and it’s in the fragile egg state, do not talk to people about it, unless those people are KNOWN cheerleaders.

I was annoyed about getting a New Year’s Card from a friend of mine saying, “You should eat more!”
I thought, “It’s none of your business! I have a small appetite. Is this a kind of things you have to write in a New Year’s Card?”

What a weird comment to make to someone! I’d be annoyed too. I am also petite and am a small eater and occasionally someone will say something when we are eating out about they can’t believe that is all that I am going to eat but that is more conversational and not a comment in a card.

thank you for this! the timing is wonderful.
i recently released a piece of software after many months of extremely hard work- mostly i got “congrats!” notes, but a few people have taken it upon themselves to point out all the flaws and room for improvement

guys, this was a really difficult thing to do! please, don’t worry about the font weight, and don’t tell me that you don’t like it! unless you’re my mom or husband, your suggestions/criticisms aren’t going to make it to the list.

reminds me of a trip in college to a lead type foundry/letterpress/book making factory run by two people, a husband and wife team. the amount of work craft that goes into a handmake book is incredible, and it’s really super rude to point out flaws when so much has gone right. they had a wonderful quote about it that i neglected to write down- but basically it went “unless you have also done this very thing, you best not be criticizin’ cause you have no idea all the work that went into this”.

anyway, thanks for the reminder not to take it personally. somehow it’s easy to overlook all the nice sentiments and focus on the negative ones. i will try and focus on all the wonderful people who sent nice notes

I don’t mean this to be rude, because I really don’t understand, but isn’t criticism exactly what you want? Not mean-spirited criticism of course (“this sucks!”), but constructive criticism (whatever a font weight is sounds pretty specific and fixable) is helpful. Especially from people who aren’t your mother or husband – they might be more likely to tell you the truth.

you’d think so, but ‘constructive’ criticism I’ve found is exactly the opposite. If I’ve spent hours and hours on a project and you take issue with some piddly detail, it’s not helpful; everyone has their own opinion on the item in question and none of it helps the creator do the right thing for their own project. I asked for input on a creative project once; I got back a whirlwind of conflicting, incomprehensible, mutually exclusive feedback that added nothing to the project and only damaged my confidence in my own creation. Won’t be doing that again.

I really don’t have any “toxic” friends or family of the type described. Many of my family members do seem oddly baffled by the fact that I don’t have a flat screen TV. (I have a 27 inch, regular TV that works great.) Several times I’ve been asked, “But don’t you WANT a flat screen?” to which I always reply, “I’ll probably get one when this one breaks.” They then usually ask, “Why don’t you buy the flat screen now and move this one into your bedroom?” (My apartment is around 550 sq feet and really doesn’t require two televisions.)

The idea of waiting until I actually NEED it (insofar as a TV can be called a need) seems to really throw them.

When people ask me when we are going to get a flat screen TV, I tell them “It’s on the list.” I am referring to the never ending, virtual TO-DO list. Since new items are constantly getting inserted into the list, the odds “buy a brand new TV” is ever going to make it to the top is pretty low.

Yeah, we get this quite a bit. People constantly telling us what we’re doing is wrong, that our decisions are stupid “why would you want to do that, why would you want to go there, why don’t you just…?” Gets a bit old. But we just keep doing what we want to do.

It was stupid for my wife to start travel nursing when she could get a “good” paying job in Tennessee. Well, she made more in 6-9 months traveling than she could all year in Tennessee. And she got 3-6 months off.

It was stupid to buy a fixer-upper house in rural Tennessee. Well, $25,000 or so later, we have a paid for 3 bedroom house. No mortgage or rent to worry about (true, we’re not living in it at the moment, but it’s serving well as “Plan B”).

It was stupid to go to Australia. Well, wife’s getting her midwifery degree (heavily subsidized btw), and our son REALLY loves the school here (like night and day from the one in Tennessee). Even if it doesn’t work out, it’ll be quite the life experience (that really throws people for a loop…they tell you it won’t work out, and you say “that’s ok, it’d still be quite an adventure!”)

But certain family members, while they may not fully understand our decisions, have been more than supportive. These are the family members we like to spend extra time with, talk more openly with, etc.

Toxic people cannot be changed; it’s the way they’re wired. I was married to Mr Toxicity himself for many years but finally saw the light and am now happily single. Toxic people cannot bear to see you happy. They thrive on your misfortune but who laughs last…laughs the longest!

It’s not just finances. When my husband completed his PhD, only one of his friends, Chris – who was not in a doctoral program – congratulated him. All the rest were freaked out or jealous, as they were all making no progress on their own doctorates or had dropped out (most of our friends at the time were from grad school). Twenty years later, the only friend from that time with whom we are still in touch is Chris.

OK, I’m maybe a bit older than most commenters – BUT – at the end of the day, be a grown-up and live your own life and make your own decisions. If people don’t like it or don’t approve – %^&* ‘em – if they do like it or “approve” – who gives a %^&*? Nobody that I’m friends (or family) with makes any comments on how I live my life or what I spend on. And I wouldn’t listen to (most) of them if they did. I make an exception with the ones I respect.

At some point “your life is your message.” (Gandhi)

Also – nobody *makes* you feel anything. Grow a set and take some responsibility for that. Nobody’s toxic – except your thinking might be.

I hate the term “toxic” because it makes it sound like someone is inherently bad. I have someone in my family who is regularly pretty critical and mean to me (and other family members). But she’s a good mother and a good friend and good daughter. She’s not inherently bad. Just not good for me. Unlike friends you can’t choose family.

Being constantly fed a regular diet of criticism and rudeness does wear you down. (Especially if you’re sensitive about certain issues…)

But you’re right. People should do what they want and not worry about what others think of their choices. Especially if you’re doing something GOOD for yourself like saving money. Who cares how someone else might have spent that money?

I can get how friends and family can undermine your fortitude with comments or encouragement to spend. But in the end, it’s like quitting anything or taking up anything. You need to believe it is right for you and stick with it.

Perhaps some people might like a tip I used to quit smoking. I kept a list in my wallet of reasons I wanted to quit smoking. I found the silly little reasons worked better than the lofty ones I wrote down. Somehow wanting to be healthy for my partner didn’t matter when I really wanted a smoke. But imagining myself smoking on a freezing windy balcony helped!

I’m human and it does affect me when I tell someone who should be supportive such as my mother or a close “friend” my aspirations and they tell me it won’t work. This occurs regularly and I finally learned to play my cards close to my chest. Once in awhile I’ll try again but always get shot down so go back to not telling anyone what I’m doing. You can say that I should grow a pair, etc. but that’s just a cliche and much easier said than done.

I definitely got this feeling when I went back to school. I think a lot of my friends and family were baffled as to why I would do it, and one colleague was flat out like, “WHY?!” It only really irks me when it’s around finals and I’m super stressed and I get people egging me on to take a study break and go out with them. The paranoid part of my brain wonders if there are people out these who actually WANT me to fail, but the rational part of me is usually pretty good at taking a deep breath, reminding myself that there’s probably nothing malicious in those comments, and promptly ignores them.

The article mentions: “In my experience, it’s not that these people are cruel and out to get you. The real issue is that your success signals their failure.”

I think the truth is easier. People are neither cruel, nor do they (in general) have issues with your success, but they just don’t get it. If a severly obese person suggests you eat more pie since your BMI can handle it, do you contribute it to spite or an intention to ruin your weight-success? Or do you simply accept they don’t have (and want) a clue?

The comment that people exhibit negativity to you when their own finances are a mess sure rings true. I write a newsletter for my financial planning business and send it out to clients and anyone else I think might be interested. It’s free and I hope offers good GRS-type advice. I could tell you immediately which people are in trouble financially (mostly from a church I used to attend) by the few angry “unsubscribes” I got. One of the people I know who is in the most trouble (and who REALLY ought to pay attention to sound financial advice) even brought it up at a church business meeting–that I’d used the church mailing list. Actually, I didn’t, but somebody had to calm her down and point out that I was merely offering a free and beneficial service. Sadly, a lot of people would rather take out their troubles on you rather than do something to change themselves.

April;
Thanks for another great article.
As an older person, I have found that the toxic people in my life have simply left. Because I am a financially successful, positive and cheerful person they cannot stay around me because their orientation (concerning life) is so negetive. I will not co-sign their BS, nor do I validate their whining or buy into a co-dependent relationship. We had nothing in common so why would they hang around me.
My spending choices are my own and what others think about how I spend my money does not matter. If they believe that I should own something they think I should have, then they can buy it for me. I am comfortable with who I am and how I live. If you have healthy self-esteem, you don’t have a need to impress anyone else.
Also, I say “No” to anyone who hasn’t a place in my life .
Remember that we are in charge of who is in our midst.
My husband, a retired counselor, used to teach his clients about how others affect them. He had them imagine that there was a cable connecting the cliet’s navel to another person in their life. That person either charges your battery or drains you. This is how to determine if a person should be around you. If they drain you, why waste your time and energy on such a relationship? Life is too short for that!

My toxic relationship is actually with a family member, and I’m having trouble cutting ties. I think I will have to be honest and set boundaries that will work for both of us, like seeing each other once per year or something.

Hey, those $300 shoes are saving me money! Ok, well that’s a very specific example (these shoes are lasting longer than 6x $50 pairs of dress shoes do, and looking darn good while doing it) =P.

My response to someone telling me what I should do with my money is to make them justify it. If they don’t give up due to laziness at that point, then tell them some potential consequences (e.g. “If I buy that, I can’t make my house payment this month”). If they still insist, I laugh at them. When they don’t laugh back I’ll say “oh, I thought you were joking”, just to get the message across how bad of an idea it is.

Bottom line is that you shouldn’t be taking financial advice from people who can’t manage their own finances, and they need to be told one way or another.

I think it’s important to remember that we can’t change people. They are what they are, and who they are. What we CAN control to varying degrees is how we respond to such people, and how much (if at all) we deal with them. Best to go forward with your own goals and not worry about what others think. It’s your life, not theirs!

Ah, great article! I’ve been criticized for being low maintenance and frugal by family and friends (both terms used loosely). 25 years married and we only spent about $2000 for the whole wedding. We didn’t want to start off being in debt.
We work hard for what we have, own our own home outright, no mortgage, no car loans, no credit cards, no “smart” phones, we have pre-paid cell,no excessive consumerism, no high end anything.
Got so depressed having “those people” telling me what to do all the time! I don’t shop unless we NEED something. Wants vs. needs. It logical and simple.
When my family ganged up on me and said,”You think you’re better than us because you’re debt free” it was the last straw. My response? “It’s not that I think I’m better than you, I’m better off without you.”
Either way there would be pain. Their abuse or the pain of walking away. I chose to walk away.
I kicked all the people who spewed negativity to the curb over 15 years ago, “friends” included.
We keep our circle small and selective. Quality vs quantity. My life has so much less drama and trauma now. I’m 50 and want what is left of our lives to be happy and positive, not dragged down by the haters.
Life is full of choices, I can live with mine.

I don’t think it’s always because they want you to “trip up” or because they’re stuff is a mess. Sometimes, they see those actions as having fun, and just want you to enjoy it too. They want to share the joy with you.

It’s important when dealing with situations like this that you communicate to your friend/family two things:
1) You’re giving up a small measure of joy now, because you’re headed to a goal that you’re very excited about. Get them on board with your excitement.
2) You’re finding your joy in something else. Sure, you won’t buy that 2 billion calorie desert now, but you’re happy to hang out with them – you don’t need the [insert item here] to be happy.

My son has a few friends that always (in my opinion) go way over board for each other’s birthdays each year. He lived with them for a year, and they were always running done to another city 3 ours away to celebrate something, or planning elaborate nights out for a bday, and one even flew in my sisters brother’ for her birthday (which was nice, but she couldn’t afford it). After my son moved in with other friends, that are a little more reasonable, and started turning them down more often. They couldn’t understand it at first. Unfortunately, two of these particular friends don’t “live it up” as much any more because they both quit their some what decent jobs and took crappier ones because they thought they would make more money. Now they don’t have much extra money at all. But they STILL will try to do something elaborate. My son rarely goes out with them though, because he realized he just couldn’t afford it. I think he got frustrated with having to say no all the time, but at least they have backed off some.

I think it’s a little unfair to label people as “toxic” and assume that they are jealous and trying to undermine your success just because they don’t agree with your financial choices. Different people have different values.

I once read on another personal finance blog about a family that saves money by using rags (which they subsequently wash and reuse) instead of toilet paper. Many people — frugal and financially responsible people — commented on how disgusting they found this, and said that no matter how broke they were, they would never resort to it. Well, to some people, clipping coupons or canceling cable TV is just one step up from using rags to save money on toilet paper. Maybe from their point of view, you are going too far in depriving yourself, like a financial anorexic.

Of course, even if these people mean well, their comments can still be harmful. If you give them the benefit of the doubt, though, you may find that you don’t need to cut them out of your life or treat them like enemies.

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