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Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

More like every other year.

But seriously...I think I get your point(s), but in a way it sounds a bit like you want to have your cake and eat it too. The Ravens made their cap bed, and it had nothing to do with Joe Flacco. It DID have everything to do with: Ngata, Suggs, Reed, Lewis, Birk, and others. So now what? Joe's supposed to offer up a home town discount to balance out the FO's indiscretion when it comes to the cap? Sorry...I don't think so. MAYBE if the team had at least shown Joe some respect and TRIED its BEST to build an offense to support him. But the O-line has stunk almost the entire time Joe's been here; the WRs are middle of the pack at best; and the decision to bring back Cameron at the start of this season just blew. So maybe...what's best for Joe isn't necessarily what's best for the Ravens, if you're seriously suggesting that he should take less just to have the privilege of staying here.

Joe hasn't EARNED that kind of payday, the rest you mentioned DID. Sorry but Joe saying he's elite is a joke. He's not. he's an above average game manager and has been exposed. He should take what Romo got plus inflation and be happy because thats the most he should get. PERIOD. He CANNOT put the team on his back like the Manning's, Rodges, Brady's, Brees and Rapistbugers can. he just can't. He's a Rivers, Romo, Ryan, etc.. type player and even that is being liberal with his skillset.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by JustaslowZ06

Joe hasn't EARNED that kind of payday, the rest you mentioned DID. Sorry but Joe saying he's elite is a joke. He's not. he's an above average game manager and has been exposed. He should take what Romo got plus inflation and be happy because thats the most he should get. PERIOD. He CANNOT put the team on his back like the Manning's, Rodges, Brady's, Brees and Rapistbugers can. he just can't. He's a Rivers, Romo, Ryan, etc.. type player and even that is being liberal with his skillset.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

I keep hearing how Joe isn't gonna get the money he was previously looking.

I say it's a definitely possibility that the Flacco camp will still stand strong in their demands.

Sure, his play doesn't merit top 5 (or top 10 IMO) money but he knows the team is in a pickle.

Franchising him destroys the cap and is always a sticky situation, especially with QBs. And it doesn't address anything long term.

The Ravens can comeback after the season with an offer most of us fans think is fair. But what if he doesn't budge?

What if he says "I'll take my chances in the open market or franchise me"? He will point out that the team canned the OC during week 14 and that the entire 2012 season (on offense) never had a chance etc....

I honestly believe Flacco was asking for the moon prior to the season. To me that's the only scenario that explains why they are in the situation they are in now. And I don't believe that Flacco's camp is gonna accept alot less than they were asking for 4 months ago.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by wickedsolo

So, which QB coming out in the next 2-3 years will meet or exceed what Joe Flacco has done here?

This is basically an impossible question to answer, but I'm going to come out and try to answer it in a nuanced way. With this coaching staff, with this offensive personnel, there is NO CHANCE any of the QBs coming out over the next few years would exceed what Flacco has done. I readily concede that.

All of the great QBs who have come out over the past few years have had success when paired with bright young coaches in very quarterback-friendly offensive systems. I think Andy Dalton is the best example, he was given a good supporting cast and Jay Gruden who's a genius OC with a very QB-friendly WCO. Dalton himself isn't terribly talented and he went in the 2nd round. Kaepernick is similar, he has a lot of talent but was seen as a big project causing him to fall into the 2nd. He wouldn't be what he was now without Jim Harbaugh and his great system. Even Andrew Luck and RGIII have the support of brilliant play-callers and QB developers in Bruce Arians and the Shanahans.

Honestly, the chances of hitting on an Andy Dalton aren't terribly high... but we would maximize our chances if we committed the entire team to going all in on offense in terms of both the coaching staff and personnel. It would probably mean starting over with the coaching staff. It would involve growing pains. But the point would be getting a QB who makes good decisions, plays well under pressure, and manages the game well. I'm soured on the ultra-talented strong-armed QBs like Boller and Flacco... looking more at a WCO-friendly kind of guy like Zac Dysert, Ryan Nassib, Aaron Murray (2013) or AJ McCarron, Derek Carr, Brynn Renner (2014)

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by purplepoe

I keep hearing how Joe isn't gonna get the money he was previously looking.

I say it's a definitely possibility that the Flacco camp will still stand strong in their demands.

Sure, his play doesn't merit top 5 (or top 10 IMO) money but he knows the team is in a pickle.

Franchising him destroys the cap and is always a sticky situation, especially with QBs. And it doesn't address anything long term.

The Ravens can comeback after the season with an offer most of us fans think is fair. But what if he doesn't budge?

What if he says "I'll take my chances in the open market or franchise me"? He will point out that the team canned the OC during week 14 and that the entire 2012 season (on offense) never had a chance etc....

I honestly believe Flacco was asking for the moon prior to the season. To me that's the only scenario that explains why they are in the situation they are in now. And I don't believe that Flacco's camp is gonna accept alot less than they were asking for 4 months ago.

And that's gonna be a big problem.

PP

Well...(not disagreeing)...but when the Ravens want to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, everyone supports them. So if Joe's camp chooses to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, is it any different? Doe Joe OWE the Ravens anything above and beyond giving them the opportunity to give him what other teams would be willing to give him? Not to my way of thinking. So yeah, it's a problem. That's a part of life in the big city.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Well...(not disagreeing)...but when the Ravens want to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, everyone supports them. So if Joe's camp chooses to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, is it any different? Doe Joe OWE the Ravens anything above and beyond giving them the opportunity to give him what other teams would be willing to give him? Not to my way of thinking. So yeah, it's a problem. That's a part of life in the big city.

Yes but why cripple this team for years just to pay him what he wants? He just doesn't deserve that money, there really is no other way around it, you can go into this and that about Flacco, but the facts are, he just isn't a top 5 QB, end of story. So with that said, why pay Flacco top 5 money when he clearly isn't a top 5 QB? I just don't see how that makes sense.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by RavensRule21215

Well...(not disagreeing)...but when the Ravens want to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, everyone supports them. So if Joe's camp chooses to run the "it's just business" up the flag pole, is it any different? Doe Joe OWE the Ravens anything above and beyond giving them the opportunity to give him what other teams would be willing to give him? Not to my way of thinking. So yeah, it's a problem. That's a part of life in the big city.

I agree with any team running the "it's just business" approach if a player is asking for top 5 money when he clearly doesn't deserve it.

Honestly, I don't care what other teams "would" give Flacco. It's pretty easy to find a bunch of horrible QB contracts out there. If Joe Flacco doesn't like or accept what the Ravens feel is a fair offer (which already happened 4 months ago) then he can walk. I'm not saying that's necessarily ideal but neither is overpaying for him.

There are a bunch of moving parts with this thing. The next 3 (or more) games could swing things as well.

What we are seeing play out is exactly the reason teams should never let a QB situation get to this.

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by purplepoe

I agree with any team running the "it's just business" approach if a player is asking for top 5 money when he clearly doesn't deserve it.

Honestly, I don't care what other teams "would" give Flacco. It's pretty easy to find a bunch of horrible QB contracts out there. If Joe Flacco doesn't like or accept what the Ravens feel is a fair offer (which already happened 4 months ago) then he can walk. I'm not saying that's necessarily ideal but neither is overpaying for him.

There are a bunch of moving parts with this thing. The next 3 (or more) games could swing things as well.

What we are seeing play out is exactly the reason teams should never let a QB situation get to this.

PP

I agree. But now that it's AT this point, it's going to just have to play out however it plays out. The bottom line remains...how will the Ravens fare if they decide NOT to pay Joe what he wants? What other options do they have?

Re: This team won't have a chance at competing if we pay Flacco big money

Originally Posted by leachisabeast

Yes but why cripple this team for years just to pay him what he wants? He just doesn't deserve that money, there really is no other way around it, you can go into this and that about Flacco, but the facts are, he just isn't a top 5 QB, end of story. So with that said, why pay Flacco top 5 money when he clearly isn't a top 5 QB? I just don't see how that makes sense.

1. The team has "crippled" itself long before the matter of paying Joe came up
2. I've already stated that I'm of the opinion that if the team doesn't want to pay Joe what he wants, let him walk.
3. Assuming the team doesn't want to pay Joe what he wants and Joe walks, where does that leave the Ravens?