Where Defeat Is Not An Option

Wonder if this will put a damper on Obama claiming success in the Iran deal during the State of the Union?

Iranian military forces seized two U.S. Navy boats Tuesday and are holding them in custody on Iran’s Farsi Island in the middle of the Persian Gulf, senior U.S. officials told NBC News.

Officials said it’s unclear whether the 10 American sailors who were aboard one of the small riverine boats had strayed into Iranian territorial waters before they were captured.

The officials said the Americans were on a training mission around noon ET when their boat experienced mechanical difficulty and drifted into Iranian-claimed waters and were seized by Iranian Coast guard.

Iran is claiming they were in Iran’s waters – naturally, our government is appearing to go along with this claim. Even if true, the proper response from a civilized power is to just warn them off, not seize them. This could, of course, just be one of those things that happen – but it could also be Iran seeing just how far they can go. They are already routinely insulting us and challenging us and seeing that Obama is willing to put up with anything rather than put his “legacy” deal with Iran in jeopardy. This just might be more in that game – and if it is, then expect some very aggressive Iranian action in the area soon…if we back down on this, Iran’s government will pretty much know for certain that Obama will not, under any circumstances, take on Iran.

42 thoughts on “SOTU/Iranian Hostage Crisis Open Thread”

Problem not solved – Iran has twice humiliated American naval power and has not paid a price.

Retired SpookJanuary 13, 2016 / 9:45 am

Liberals are immune from humiliation, just as they are immune from shame and embarrassment.

AmazonaJanuary 13, 2016 / 1:17 am

“Will the cable news anchors concede that the President of the United States might be smarter than they are?”

Why should they?

How about our ships? Do we get them back, too?

AmazonaJanuary 13, 2016 / 1:23 am

sorry—boats, not ships

I see Obama fanboy cappy is still lurking in our shadows, only daring to dart out for a moment to say something inane and wrong. He clearly does not see “…Iran has twice humiliated American naval power…” as a problem. Some things never change.

Retired SpookJanuary 13, 2016 / 9:40 am

I tried to watch that POS last night; I really did. I lasted about 5 minutes and just couldn’t take any more. Everyone keeps going on and on about how this is his last SOTU speech. I beg to differ. Assuming he leaves voluntarily next January 20th, I don’t think there’s any way he will go without tooting his horn one last time.

ClusterJanuary 13, 2016 / 11:12 am

You lasted longer than I did. I refuse to even acknowledge his presence anymore. Listening to the recaps this morning though I see he characterized ISIS as “some guys in pickup trucks”, demonstrating once again his detachment from reality and worse yet, his unwavering defense of all things Islam. Obama is positioning himself to be a global statesman in the years ahead and to accomplish that he has to adopt the worldly UN elite view of how a strong and determined America is a net negative because of course a “white mans greed runs a world in need” and that only a consensus of the worldly elite leaders are best equipped to determine what role America should play, which of course will begin with redistributing our wealth to other third world countries in the name of climate change. From what I heard of the speech last night, it didn’t sound like an American President, rather a condescending lecture from a Harvard Professor on how obtuse and belligerent Americans are.

I have an American version of the Kubelwagen, known as the “VW Thing” sitting in my barn waiting to be restored. I want to trick it out all cool, pearly white with a black accent stripe and black roll bar and upholstery, but purists insist it should remain orange. Hmm…..

ClusterJanuary 13, 2016 / 6:22 pm

I remember the VW Thing, those were actually pretty cool. I am absolutely in love with VW buses but they are expensive. I had a buddy back in high school who had a VW bus with the small rectangular accent windows – I would kill for that today.

Retired SpookJanuary 13, 2016 / 6:39 pm

One of the most successful businesses in Fort Wayne is Sweetwater Sound. The owner got his start back in the 80’s working out of a VW Bus It’s now fully restored and on display in the lobby of the company headquarters.

ClusterJanuary 13, 2016 / 6:45 pm

Yup, that bus also has those rectangular accent windows. That’s a very cool bus. Maybe if I win the $1 billion lottery I could afford one.

AmazonaJanuary 14, 2016 / 12:35 am

I guess this is where I admit to an act of utter stupidity. When I moved onto my Wyoming ranch I had a lot of stuff to deal with—an old nasty trailer house full of moldy furniture and crap, a few hundred tires, lots of metal odds and ends, and—-an old VW bus. Complete with the little kitchen.

I gave it all away just to get it hauled off.

I have often kicked myself for getting rid of the VW.

ClusterJanuary 13, 2016 / 11:22 am

The US has apologised to Iran after 10 American sailors were arrested for entering Iranian waters, the commander of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards naval forces has said.

Obama’s apology tour started in 2009 and continues today. He should be apologizing to Americans not Iranians, and then resigning.

Clearly bullying is just fine as long as it is the United States being bullied, and the bullies are America-hating Muslims

AmazonaJanuary 14, 2016 / 12:38 am

Back to politics—anyone else notice that Ann Coulter has completely gone off the rails? She’s like a train wreck—it’s sad to watch but hard to look away. The latest odd attack on Nikki Haley is beyond bizarre, and makes Coulter’s love affair with Trump and attacks on other Republicans look almost sane by comparison.

ClusterJanuary 14, 2016 / 8:18 am

I use to really like Ann’s sarcastic take on politics but something has changed with her over the last few years. Her barbs use to be more intelligent and subtle and her columns were almost a must read, but now she seems to be going for pure shock value with her nasty and seemingly malicious attacks on anyone who she perceives as establishment. And it wasn’t long ago that she was a big Christie fan.

ClusterJanuary 14, 2016 / 8:36 am

People like Penn are reminiscent of the famous German existentialist philosopher Martin Heidegger, who has greatly influenced academia and leftist elites by philosophically underpinning their extreme moral relativism, which allows them to pick and choose causes worthy and disreputable, without any care for logic or consistency.

We have discussed this concept often but this article sums up the inanity of leftism very well.

Their soldiers will not march to the sound of cannon. They are ripe for a fall. They are as vulnerable as they are stupid and will be as inept at defending themselves as they are at running your life.

AmazonaJanuary 14, 2016 / 11:34 am

The whole article had a lot of very pointed, very quotable, parts. I also liked: (emphasis mine)

“This is not Sweden and the American left are not benign social democrats. These are the violent heirs of Lenin and Stalin and they are out for blood, ours. Their objective is the destruction of the middle class and the imposition of top down tyranny, it always has been. They will enlist Islamic terrorism, race war, class envy and any other deadly tool to achieve the destruction of hated Amerika. These nihilists care nothing about their people or their civilization, only their warped worldview. You need look no further than at our president’s mentors, the misbegotten, hate filled spawn of the 1960’s anti-war movement who now run your government and your life.”

This is the first time I have seen anyone assert that, to paraphrase the essay, Islamic terrorism is a necessary tool of the Left to bring down America.

However, I would like to see more attention paid to the fact that the word “media” is plural. Every now and then I see someone correctly say “media ARE” but for some reason the word is now used as a singular, in spite of its actual meaning. I shouldn’t quibble—I am often guilty of the same thing regarding the word “data”, which is also plural for “datum”. I am comfortable saying “media ARE” but after so many years of hearing “data IS” I find myself saying the same thing.

ClusterJanuary 14, 2016 / 11:57 am

I heard a pundit not too long ago say that the left’s embrace and defense of Islam is only because they share a common enemy; Christians, Jews and everyday Americans.

M. NoonanJanuary 15, 2016 / 12:10 am

Birds of a feather flock together – and as the real dividing line since approximately 33 AD has been “do you believe He is Risen?”, this all just part of that.

AmazonaJanuary 14, 2016 / 5:43 pm

“…they share a common enemy; Christians, Jews and everyday Americans….”

…and people who can defend themselves.

ClusterJanuary 15, 2016 / 7:07 pm

Isn’t it a little more than ironic that some people question Cruz’s status as a citizen, but fall all over themselves awarding citizenship to illegal immigrants?

AmazonaJanuary 15, 2016 / 9:23 pm

I see some on the Left are swooning over the alleged meaning of the release of the sailors. Sure, it is possible that Iran released them because they just loooove Kerry and Barry, and are eager to please them. Or it could be because they know they will benefit, probably to the tune of even more billions coming into their country, if they make them look good. The last thing Iran wants is a Republican president. They’ve got it pretty good right now, with a Muslim-favoring administration eager to make sure they get all the money they need to finance their efforts to destroy us, eager to help them get the nukes they need to bring about the return of the 12th Imam, and the United State’s focus on Americans with guns.

The only way to claim that the release is proof of Obama’s skills as a diplomat and negotiator is to simply ignore the ongoing bragging from Iran that their goal is still to destroy us. No, they did it because there was something in it for them, and what is good for Iran is bad for us.

M. NoonanJanuary 15, 2016 / 11:50 pm

They are doing the straw man – if we didn’t do it Obama’s way, it means we want full scale war with Iran…

Being bereft of honor, themselves, they don’t understand how film of Americans on their knees before Iranian military personnel is playing in the Muslim world…

AmazonaJanuary 16, 2016 / 11:54 am

Here is another perspective of the Iranian actions, including this one:

And we also traded 7 or so criminals for 5 entirely innocent people being held by Iran! Woohoo!!! Soft Power rocks!

ClusterJanuary 17, 2016 / 9:40 am

We have to leave Rusty’s post up, it is priceless. The best lines are:

“Standard precautionary capture position” and “Our relationship with Iran continues to improve and that is a big win for the middle east”

I think our relations with Iran are definitely improving well aside from the death to America chants and the fact that Iran has already violated the unsigned agreement. But I think we did learn one thing. It costs $150 billion to have four hostages released. Make a note of that. Oh yes and one more thing, you either believe in capitulation or all out war. There are no gray areas.

AmazonaJanuary 17, 2016 / 11:53 am

We have to leave Rusty’s post up, it is priceless

If by “priceless” you mean dreck that pollutes the blog.

ClusterJanuary 17, 2016 / 12:33 pm

His post is pure comedy. Feckless progressive delusion on a level few can reach.

AmazonaJanuary 17, 2016 / 1:34 pm

You are the only one who enjoys the smell.

rustybrown2014January 16, 2016 / 7:03 pm

“On their knees”. Please. Those pictures show our sailors in standard precautionary capture position after being intercepted in IRANIAN waters. The Iranians had every right to take initial precautions and the entire rational world knows it. After that, the sailors were treated extremely well by the Iranians and the whole business was quickly sorted out. Anyone who feels “humiliated” about this affair has other psychological issues of inadequacy to deal with.

Meanwhile, looks like a group of our hostages are being released. Thanks Obama. Damn Iranians! Being sneaky with all your cooperation! We know you’re up to something!

So to recap, under Obama, our sailors were released in a non-incident and Iran also releases American hostages. Our relationship with Iran continues to improve and that is a big win for the Middle East. On the other hand, by their own words, if one of the Republican clowns were in office we’d be in the middle of WWIII. Your choice, American voters!

AmazonaJanuary 17, 2016 / 11:49 am

Damn Iranians! Being sneaky with all your cooperation! We know you’re up to something!

Up to more than a hundred billion dollars, actually, if you want to know what the Iranians were “up to”. They told Kerry to back off on sanctions or say good bye to the hostages.

Our relationship with Iran continues to improve

And one example is our agreement to sell them “passenger planes”. Like all bullies and tyrants, Iran will play nice as long as they get their own way, at least till they have enough from the bullied to move on their agendas. With Barry and The Boyz, they can pretty much call the shots.

Does Rusty wear his Barry knee pads because he is committed to the political model represented by Obama? Who know? Like other trolls here, he is quite coy about his political philosophy. He doesn’t want a federal government restricted as to size, scope and power, with most authority left to the states or to the people, although that is written into the Constitution, because he thinks the Constitution is just a generalized list of mild suggestions for how we might govern the nation, if we feel like it. He says he does not favor unrestricted expansion of federal growth, regarding size, scope and power, but won’t say where he thinks a cutoff point should be.

In other words, while posturing as a political commenter, Rusty is really just all about Identity Politics—he has an emotional allegiance to those on the Left because he has an emotional disdain for those on the Invented Right his minders have described to him. He can commit to emotion-based personal attacks and temper tantrums, because they are, well, emotion-based. He can’t commit to an objective blueprint for how best to govern the nation because that would require an actual thought process.

“They told Kerry to back off on sanctions or say good bye to the hostages.”

Do you have any sources for this ridiculous assertion or can I assume it’s like most of your fevered ramblings: completely fabricated.

“Like other trolls here, he is quite coy about his political philosophy.”

Not at all. As you know, I’ve stated my political philosophy here quite completely and succinctly. That you feel a need to dismiss and delete my opinions, then completely misstate them without fear of rebuttal says much about your insecurities. You’re simply not up to speed when it comes to arguing and defending your positions. That’s fine Ama, but don’t pretend it’s otherwise.

We all know why you vehemently argue against my posts: because I outdebate you every time we have a discussion.

rustybrown2014January 17, 2016 / 7:22 pm

“He says he does not favor unrestricted expansion of federal growth, regarding size, scope and power, but won’t say where he thinks a cutoff point should be.”

Where did you get that cockamamie idea? Do you exist entirely in your own head?

AmazonaJanuary 17, 2016 / 8:42 pm

On August 8, 2015, you and I began a lengthy discussion, in which you refused to give a cutoff for just how expandable you think the Constitution should be. You insisted on “flexibility” in the Constitution but refused to say just HOW “flexible” you think it should be.

The exchange also showed why you were, once again, banned, as you couldn’t really say much of anything without being insulting. As you are in the posts above.

BTW, that August exchange also points out how your claim that ‘… because I outdebate you every time we have a discussion…”is either a fantasy or a lie. You flailed, you squealed, you attacked, you insulted, but you never scored a point. You cited a wiki piece that you claimed is an explanation of what you now say “…stated my political philosophy here quite completely and succinctly…” but in fact when analyzed it contradicted many things you say you believe in, and is a rather vague piece in general. Cluster and I pointed out its weaknesses and your arguments were weak and floppy. If you truly do believe you have ever come out ahead in ANY discussion on this site, you are even more delusional than what is demanded by your political allegiance.

Kerry was told by the Iranian ambassador that demands by the U.S. would endanger the new agreement. I read the accounts of this in several places, and I know you have as well, even though you prefer to stay in your echo chamber. You try to distract from this by more of your wholly predictable insults and another personal attack.

Perhaps NOW Cluster will not feel that you should be allowed on the blog. You have made my point for me.

AmazonaJanuary 17, 2016 / 9:08 pm

It was unlikely that the administration would have had the backbone or integrity to impose sanctions or take some sort of strong stand after two medium-range missiles capable of carrying nuclear weapons were fired to land in close proximity to American ships, but this is the kind of thing a real president would have used as leverage, to work on better terms for any deal with Iran. We not only did not do a single thing, impose a single sanction, after this provocation, we crumpled, we apologized, and Iran got away with yet another F You to the United States. Oh, and we gave them more than a hundred billion dollars and okayed sending them “passenger planes”.

Now, RRL trolls might claim that these concessions to Iran were purely voluntary, and that the release of American prisoners and hostages did not depend on us refusing to impose sanctions, or uphold prior sanctions. It wouldn’t be any crazier than the rest of the crap they claim to believe. And, let’s face it, it is not unlike Barry and Kerry to offer wildly unreasonable things to any enemy of ours but the timing is significant, and for a while we did think we might actually stand up for something after those missile launches.

rustybrown2014January 17, 2016 / 10:12 pm

“On August 8, 2015, you and I began a lengthy discussion, in which you refused to give a cutoff for just how expandable you think the Constitution should be. You insisted on “flexibility” in the Constitution but refused to say just HOW “flexible” you think it should be.”

That’s simply not true. This exchange existents in your own mind.

These posts are in the archives and can be read by anyone who wants to see them. This statement by Rusty shows his dishonesty as well as his reliance on personal attack and insult. The rest of this post, which has been removed, is more of the same. He claims his posts are removed because posters cannot handle being “beaten” by him in discussions but it is really because he is a bad-tempered liar who can’t post anything that is not full of attacks and insults. /// Moderator

ClusterJanuary 18, 2016 / 8:01 am

Amazona is 100% correct on that Rusty. You refused to set limits of government expansion and furthermore said that the constitution was outdated because there were no elderly poor people to take care of back when it was written. You also refer to God as a “sky daddy”. You are a first class loser and only allowed to post here for comic relief.

The blog does not need “comic relief” and Rusty will no longer have his posts remain. // Moderator

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