KysenMurrin wrote:Wonder if the seventh Sha will be an upcoming plot point.

An aside on irony within the lore: The Klaxxi oppose the Empress because she is possessed by the Sha of Fear. The Klaxxi, and the Mantid as a whole, traditionally served an Old God. That Old God was slain, and his final breath created the Sha from his essence. So the Klaxxi oppose the Empress because she is possessed by an aspect of the same Old God they claim to serve.

I actually thought they opposed her because she had gone nuts and was apparently intent on wiping out their natural cycle so she could maintain power: the fact that she was possessed by a sha just appealed to our own ends.

^My take on it as well. They oppose her because she does stuff she isn't supposed to - and the sha infestations are not something they are happy with (as its corrputing their land), but not the reason they oppose the empress or called the Paragons.

KysenMurrin wrote:Wonder if the seventh Sha will be an upcoming plot point.

An aside on irony within the lore: The Klaxxi oppose the Empress because she is possessed by the Sha of Fear. The Klaxxi, and the Mantid as a whole, traditionally served an Old God. That Old God was slain, and his final breath created the Sha from his essence. So the Klaxxi oppose the Empress because she is possessed by an aspect of the same Old God they claim to serve.

I actually thought they opposed her because she had gone nuts and was apparently intent on wiping out their natural cycle so she could maintain power: the fact that she was possessed by a sha just appealed to our own ends.

^My take on it as well. They oppose her because she does stuff she isn't supposed to - and the sha infestations are not something they are happy with (as its corrputing their land), but not the reason they oppose the empress or called the Paragons.

this is what i had thought too

it was the interruption of the normal cycles that they had opposed, not the sha itself, we were just happy to help due to the sha

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.

Like I said, I didn't fill in the latest chapter yet, so time to hit the keyboard!

As usual,*** SPOILER ALERT AHOY ***

Chapter 6: A Gathering Storm (Day 10) : Baine has spent little time enjoying the vistas of Pandaria - a single day has passed since Vol'jin's letter that Baine has already sent word that he required aid from the cahmpions of the Horde. Requesting specifically someone capable in combat, as well as discretion.

Nevertheless, the arrival at the Shrine of Two Moons was... surprising, to say the least. The sight of grayish grunts, clearly affected by the sha brought frightening memories of the Jade Forest to mind. But the sight of Garrosh, Lor'themar and young Baine debating arounda Sha claw was even more chilling. Where did it come from? Was this the Sha of Anger's claw?

Baine's request was clear - Garrosh had experiments made with the power we found in Kun-lai, most probably the claw. He had hoped it would strenghten the troops. The grunts had grown randomly violent as a result. Our task, then was to interrogate the grunt, and contain them if necessary.

The grunts had indeed gone berserk, producing Sha claws and the very same magic we saw the mogu wield. Which eventually begged the question - were the Korune truly in control of the power they wielded? Which is basically the question Lor'themar asked - the sha had empowered the mogu, yes. "But their empire fell. Perhaps to the sha, perhaps to the pandaren, or perhaps... to their own pride." Garrosh did not take well to the veiled critic, but refrained from going further than reprimand the Lord Regent. For now.

*** END OF SPOILERS ***

When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

I really get this feeling that they're going to try and swing this whole thing in a "Garrosh was doing what he felt was best for the sustained survival of the horde" when shit gets out of hand. I really do not want them trying to play up some sympathetic angle.

The Sha Claw is brought to Shrine of the Seven Stars where it starts infecting alliance soldiers. You and Anduin go about freeing them from the affects of the Sha. There's a discussion between Varian, Greymane, Nobundo, Tyrande, Overspark, Brann, Jaina, Anduin and Admirals Taylor and Rogers about what to do with it. Alliance intelligence reports the Horde trying to weaponize the Sha. Rogers, Brann and Overspark want to study it, Tyrande, Jaina, Nobundo want to destroy it. Varian asks Anduin what he would do. Anduin fears the destruction of the people of the Alliance if they head down Garrosh's path and try to harness the power of the Sha. Varian agrees with his son.

Later you are sent to meet with Connelly again. You obtain a disguise that allows you to enter the Garrosh Advance and witness their interrogation of the capture Kourne Mogu. You partake in some Panderan Memory wine and witness the location of the Divine Bell.

You then travel to that location to meet with a Sentinel scouting party. You go into the tomb, kill the ancient Mogu guardian and obtain the bell.

Sub-achievement names are give aways. After the first Dalaran part and the signal for hope you then look down a few lines and see "The Purge of Dalaran".

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.

Teranoid wrote:I really get this feeling that they're going to try and swing this whole thing in a "Garrosh was doing what he felt was best for the sustained survival of the horde" when shit gets out of hand. I really do not want them trying to play up some sympathetic angle.

I get the distionctly opposite vibe, especially that all the racial leaders so far really are considering their allegiance to "the horde" if Garrosh remains in charge..

***SPOILERS AHOY***Horde next chapter, not very detailed - I'll leave that to Sag, he's better at it than I am - has Lor'themar outright say that it may be time to consider old alliances again. ***END SPOILERS***

Teranoid wrote:I really get this feeling that they're going to try and swing this whole thing in a "Garrosh was doing what he felt was best for the sustained survival of the horde" when shit gets out of hand. I really do not want them trying to play up some sympathetic angle.

I'd rather get that than Garrosh being like this cuz he got touched by an old god in a naughty place.

Hopefully the old god and garrosh being an well-intentioned extremist is not the way they go

My take is that it is Garrosh bein g an extremist, and thats just amplfied by the sha touch which we all know he has (or will get). Nothing redeeming about it when comparing to "the new horde" ( the one that went to Kalimdor with Thrall and Vol'jin at its head). Its more the old horde from WC1 and 2 - only the "allies" don't want to go back to that time...

(oh now I want to find my oooold WC2 discs somewhere and see if they will even run in Win7 - I do believe they were DOS 6.2 required)

Teranoid wrote:I really get this feeling that they're going to try and swing this whole thing in a "Garrosh was doing what he felt was best for the sustained survival of the horde" when shit gets out of hand. I really do not want them trying to play up some sympathetic angle.

I'd rather get that than Garrosh being like this cuz he got touched by an old god in a naughty place.

Hopefully the old god and garrosh being an well-intentioned extremist is not the way they go

Please for the love of god can we go one expansion without "lol hurr durr old god whispers oops he/she went insane destroy the whole world herpy derp"

And yeah I realized how dumb my previous post was after thinking about it more.

Chapter 7: What's in the Box (Day 13) : Garrosh never earned any awards for patience. I guess it's a miracle, to a point, that it took him so long to lash out and demand RESULTS from the Blood Elves investigating their finds in Kun-lai. I could almost picture him petting a white cat while slamming on his throne, DEMANDING results from Nazgrim, before pushing a button and throw him in a wacky slide outside Orgrimmar. The look on Tak-tak's face when I jested about a kite for Silvermoon was worth my while as well.

Anyway, Lor'themar didn't enjoy the Warchief's siliness quite as much - I guess it's hard to lighten up in his position. Sadly, he had little to offer - Rommath and Aethas were hard at work on a box that had been captured from the Korune. It consistenly corrupted anyone that handled it with raw negative emotion. That probably rang quite a few bells, divine or not, so they asked for, you guessed it, the Pandaria expert, yours truly.

But Jaina and Dalaran was on everyone's mind, and Rommath was more than a bit distrustful of Proudmoore's "neutrality". I guess facing death in Dalaran's cells does that to you... Aethas was more hopeful, and in fact, did not believe we should throw everything away for Garrosh's puppy eyes, especially if it required absorbing powers like the one the korune wielded, or like Kael'thas wielded. Looking at the very room M'uru had been locked in, a faint chill went up my spine...

Still, the box was ready to be opened, and our presence was required because we had faced the worst Pandaria had to offer. And the worst did the box offer - a Sha spirit, in the middle of Silvermoon, right next to the two greatest archmages the Blood Elves had to offer. Disaster struck, and it took every bit of the guard's will to focus on the beast and bring it down before Aethas and Rommath destroyed one another and Farstrider Square along with them.

The report to Lor'themar was fairly short, as he had arrived as soon as word had reached him. We... had a conversation on the way out. Garrosh had been crossing lines on a nearly daily basis, and we had nearly lost another square of our already weakened city. The Blood Elves had fled the Alliance that had threatened to slaughter them - the resemblance was too uncanny to ignore. The elve's support was waning, even if the Horde had Lor'themar respect. Maybe someday, old alliances will be reconsidered.

*** END OF SPOILERS ***

Right now, I thing the sha will just be the final push. Garrosh has done enough to condemn himself many times over now. He's tolerated at best because he gets results.

If blizz's smart, they also ask Horde players a question in the coming questlines, probably via the NPCs: members of the Horde have sworn to obey the Warchief in all things. But where does that duty truly lie? In the Horde, or in the Warchief? And can there be compromise in that blood oath?

Last edited by Sagara on Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

Lok'tar ogar! Victory or death - it is these words that bind me to the Horde. For they are the most sacred and fundamental of truths to any warrior of the Horde.

I give my flesh and blood freely to the Warchief. I am the instrument of my Warchief's desire. I am a weapon of my Warchief's command.

From this moment until the end of days I live and die - For the Horde!

While we give our flesh and blood freely to the warchief, the oath is pretty clear about the ultimate loyalty being - For the Horde!

Garrosh is fast becoming the greates threat to the horde we have seen - just view the assassination attempt on Vol'jin, Baines mistrust, Lor'themars considerations - the only unknown right now is where Sylvanas is in all this, and what the orc on the street thinks.

Also, while I remember administering the oath several times, I do not remember any time where we, as characters, swore the oath ourselves - we seem to be more "free agents". At least going through the cataclysm changed zones on my forsaken priest I didn't encounter any horde alligance (over forsaken alligeance) till very late - end never with the direct assumption that we had sworn an oath.

With Wrathions sketching of the horde, I am even more puzzled - where is Sylvanas?

so I just got the ally side quest to go get the claw from the Korune... and it is pretty clear that the claw is not from a sha manifestation (i.e. anger, hate, etc) but was actually the body of the Korune Spellweaver we kill being mutated, and I assume we lop it off and put it in a baggy.

Nooska wrote:Also, while I remember administering the oath several times, I do not remember any time where we, as characters, swore the oath ourselves - we seem to be more "free agents". At least going through the cataclysm changed zones on my forsaken priest I didn't encounter any horde alligance (over forsaken alligeance) till very late - end never with the direct assumption that we had sworn an oath.

Thing is, it doesn't make much sense to have us being forced into a decision - ever since the Dagger in the Dark scenario, we were on a fast track with the winners. What I'm more interested is - why would Ishi side with Garrosh? What about Malkorok - why would someone be that willing to shed blood in someone else's name?

On the flip side of that specific coin, what about the supposedly "softer" orcs, like Saurfang & co? What about those in between? Nazgrim looks very loyal to Garrosh, but he's also proven himself a reasonable fellow. To use a samurai saying: "A demon possessing your lord orders you to kill a friend. Answer with the speed of non-thought, or die."

As Shoju might attest, I remember a time in Legend of the Five Rings when the most loyal of the clans (Scorpion) had to choose between killing their emperor or see their empire fall to evil. A little later, the most honorable of clans (Lion) split itself in the middle over the same question.

With Wrathions sketching of the horde, I am even more puzzled - where is Sylvanas?

What of her indeed. The tactical answer has her securing her power base in Lordaeron. Gilneas is all but hers, and the Thandol Span is the perfect choke point to prevent a push from the ground, leaving only a risky naval assault along the coasts of Hillsbrad and Arathi. The other power blocks North of the Span are either allied (Silvermoon), neutral (Argent Crusade), with the exception of the Northern Wildhammers.

She extended herself quite a bit recently, and got some pretty bad rep. PLUS, Pandaria means nothing to her for the moment, while Garrosh diverts all the attention away. Right now, I'd lay low, play defense and prepare for a siege on Aerie Peak. In fact, I'd blow up the Span post-haste, unless I was planning to move into the Wetlands.

When that day comes, seek all the light and wonder of this world, and fight.

theckhd wrote:Fuck no, we've seen what you do to guilds. Just imagine what you could do to an entire country. Just visiting the US might be enough to make the southern states try to secede again.

halabar wrote:Noo.. you don't realize the problem. Worldie was to negative guild breaking energy like Bolvar is to the Scourge. If Worldie is removed, than someone must pick up that mantle, otherwise that negative guild breaking energy will run rampant, destroying all the servers.