What about people who are terminally ill? Or have learning disabilities? Etc etc etc.

Should people who are ill really be pressured into a system where they are forced into working when, in many cases they are trying to recover from either short-term illness or suffering from long-term chronic illness? Especially when there is a country-wide shortage in jobs atm. There's an established link between stress and its effects on both mental and physical health, and putting people under pressure to work whilst they are trying to recover could be counter-productive in the long-term by increasing the length of time before they overcome the reason they are ill in the first place.

What that is the whole *point* of ESA. People do work they are capable of doing without making their health worse. If that work can't be found, you get paid ESA by default. And some people are genuinely incapable of any work.

There is evidence that work is good for people in terms of recovery and general wellbeing.

darkmorgado wrote:
You don't apply for the second group, you are placed into it automatically after your contributions run out (JSA itself is broken down similarly)

Either way, after a year you are put on JSA.

Not what I was told by an advisor in their own call centre..

If I had the paperwork to hand I'd scan it in and link it. I really wouldn't go by what the call centre staff tell you, half the time they don't know what they're talking about in my experience as they just read off a script. Most of them don't even seem to know about the Disability Premium that people on DLA get if they find themselves on JSA.

Chopsen wrote:
The people who go on JSA from ESA are the ones who are assessed as having nothing wrong with them.

Not true. People with Disabilities do not automatically go on the ESA work group, they are placed straight in to JSA unless they are signed off by a doctor. You then have a 12 week assessment period where ATOS take over. If you are placed in the Support group, you get an annual (I think?) assessment. If you are in the work support group, after a year you are automatically plonked back into JSA.

The ATOS medical may kick people off, but it's just a matter of going back to their GP and getting another ESA certificate and appealing. You don't *automatically* go on to JSA after a year. I know several people who've been on ESA since it started!

Chopsen wrote:
The ATOS medical may kick people off, but it's just a matter of going back to their GP and getting another ESA certificate and appealing. You don't *automatically* go on to JSA after a year. I know several people who've been on ESA since it started!

Posting from a sock account... I know this thread has gone to shit a bit but thought it might be useful.

I'm feeling down probably about 80% of the time. I spend most of my time alone, I recently moved to Uni and my flat don't hang out. I have friends here but during the day/nights I'm not going out (which has gone from like 4 times a week to about once a week) I don't see them.

I'm going to bed real late, waking up late and generally doing nothing with my day. I feel completely lazy all the time and getting out of bed is a real chore.

I just don't know if I'm depressed or just in a bad situation. I don't know if I'm lazy because I'm depressed or just lazy. I don't know if I'm spending time alone because I'm socially awkward or because I'm depressed. Basically I don't know whether the sadness is coming because of the situation or whether this situation came because I'm depressed.

I just feel like there's nothing I can do to change it and being at uni is making me miserable, but at the same time I really don't want to drop out because of all the hassle and I don't want to see the doctor because then I'd have to tell my family/etc and I'm really against being all emo and complaining about my problems (hence doing it on an internet forum)

Got no advice other than this: go to bed earlier, set an alarm and get out of bed earlier. Requires next to no effort and may work wonders.

If that doesn't help a little, go to the doc's. You're not going to get flung in the nut house and they are there to help. Your family doesn't need to know, unless you're a child prodigy at uni under the age of 16.

While you're at it, do what you can to avert your mind when it starts to settle into self flagellation. Tricky to start doing but well worth the effort.

I know feeling down can suck the motivation right out of you but if you force yourself to not give in then you may be able to overcome your current patch. It's something which feeds on itself so you may not want to get up but lying in bed all day - and fucking with your natural rhythms - will make you not want to do anything which will make you not want to get out of bed.

If you have a chemical imbalance then you can't overcome it by just pushing yourself. But I'm not a believer in the idea that everything must be cured with drugs and must be labelled a medical issue. Sometimes you're feeling down because life seems shitty. It's when you give in that you can dig yourself a mental rut which could well lead to the imbalance which will require medical intervention.

The simple shit like getting up early and going for walks can really work wonders. That and positive thinking, breaking the cycle of getting down on oneself.

Also, try not to add extra pressure, like feeling guilty over not telling your parents about something which is frankly none of their business. I'm not judging, but I know from my own experiences that I can easily make excuses for not taking action by ascribing responsibility to other parties. .

Yeah your right about not taking action by ascribing responsibility to other parties. I don't know, I guess part of the reason I don't go to the doctors is because sometimes I don't feel so bad and it all feels so silly that I should be going to the doctors for this.

My biggest trouble is that I never stick to things. Every other week it seems I'm trying something new, trying to get fit, learning an instrument etc but these things never seem to last more than a week. My enthusiasm for them is intense at first but I can never sustain it. It's not a case of me trying too much too soon either, I always make sure I'm just implementing small changes rather than say, deciding that I'm going to put on loads of muscle, I'll draw up a realistic diet plan and a workout plan that gradually builds and I'll still end up giving up.

I will definitely try all this stuff, but I feel like I'm almost incapable of keeping anything up (and yeah, I'm sure that attitude doesn't help, but the attitude came after failing so many times,rather than before)

Khanivor wrote:
While you're at it, do what you can to avert your mind when it starts to settle into self flagellation. Tricky to start doing but well worth the effort.

^^ This.

As tempting, and easy as it is to stew in your own thoughts, you're better off indulging in your hobbies to take your mind off things for the time being. I'm not saying do it to the detriment of everything else, but you need to give your mind a break otherwise you'll end up in an icky downward spiral of self-examination and doubt that can be very hard to get out of.