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Thursday, March 7, 2013

From #PortSaid to #Mahalla To #EgyPolice To #Ultras , how to cover madness in #Egypt

I kept starring for this post while it was blank for quite some time , I did not know what to write about tonight. I did not know what to write about amidst all that madness.

Port Said is on fire for real as the protests or rather the clashes between the security forces and the protesters continue for the 5 or the 6 day in row as I have lost counting. The last 48 hours were toughest as the security forces from police forces are using birdshots madly and sometimes live ammunition according to the protesters. Real madness in the coastal angry city. Over 1000 injured from civilians were admitted to the hospitals in the city only this week.

I will focus on what is happening right. Another round of protests, clashes and chases. There are unconfirmed news that one protester at least was killed in the clashes. Currently I know that the police wants a truce and there are negotiations between the Ultras Green Eagles and the Shura MPs in the city now. Interestingly I heard that the police officers from the city have left their work and joined the protesters.

Mahalla City in Gharbia is one fire too. The rebellious city has a good reason to protest and to clash with security forces. From two days ago a family of 4 persons have been killed allegedly on the hands of the police while chasing allegedly a group of thugs. The family was made of a mother , a father and two sons. The youngest son was the only survivor. They are from a big family in the famous industrial city. They were killed by more than 70 gunshot. The ministry of interior said at first that they were thugs then they were killed by thugs then they were killed by mistake during a chase. The city already was boiling by anger , this was the last straw.

At the same we got that interesting police movement in Egypt. It seems that the police is revolting and now they are joining the protesting movement and some of them are on strike. Not less than 30 police stations are reportedly closed by police officers , they are on strike. Several central security forces camps are also protesting. This movement is interesting because it got several demands and it is spreading in governorates.

Now the nemesis of MOI and the police , the Ultras Ahly groups are vowing for revenge next March 9,2013. The Ultras group already protested in several governorates in the past 72 hours.

This is quick wrap up for what happened today. It is a mad made day.

It is like a mad race and you do not know what you should write or cover or even follow.

23 comments
:

Thank you for the great post! I appreciate your openness and ability to transcend the hatred and misplaced feelings towards Shiites in Egypt. I am glad to see rational people like you speaking out and hope this Sunni-Shia vitrolic language dampens down across the Middle East in general. Keep up the great work.

Excellent coverage. I've been reading your blog for quite a while and find it indispensable in my attempts to understand the very important events in Egypt.

Just gave you some very due props in The Agonist, a blog where I serve as Editor. "Citizen Journalism in Egypt - Egyptian Chronicles" http://agonist.org/citizen-journalism-in-egypt-egyptian-chronicles/

@Zeinobia said: "At the same we got that interesting police movement in Egypt. It seems that the police is revolting and now they are joining the protesting movement and some of them are on strike."

Drudge Report links to this AP story. Their explanation if I may paraphrase is that the police are part of a culture that under Mubarak traditionally opposed the MB. They are now called upon to confront those protesting against the MB, and they don't like it.

Pardon for off-topic but there isn't a current on-topic post for this. Zeinobia's readers may remember Samira Ibrahim. She was given a virginity test by SCAF doctor Ahmed Adel, but her testimony was inconsistent with that of other witnesses. She lost the court case and there was even some talk that Dr. Adel might sue her for defamation but as far as I know that didn't happen.

Anyway, she's in the news again. She was to receive an "International Women of Courage Award" from first lady Michelle Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry. However, she has been making some awkward tweets, for example a tweet about last July’s suicide bombing in Burgas, Bulgaria, which killed five Israelis, saying,

"Today is a very sweet day with a lot of very sweet news."

and quoting Hitler with approval:

"I have discovered with the passage of days that no act contrary to morality, no crime against society, takes place except with the Jews having a hand in it."

And she tweeted that the Saudi royals are "dirtier than the Jews".

She claims that her Twitter account was "hacked", but the State Department has held up the award until an investigation is carried out. My own view is that she's probably lying; she sent the tweets herself. And that the State Department doesn't care about her tweets, but is embarrassed that they came to light.

Samira Ibrahim's personal opinion about Israel, Saudi's, etc. are her own and have nothing to do with her courageous act against the SCAF. After all 'Freedom of Speech' is what the US preaches all the time around the world.So, what is your point?The Canadian.

Her tweet on the eleventh anniversary of the Al Qaida September 11th, 2001 attacks, which happens to be the same day the atrocity in Benghazi was committed:

Today is the anniversary of 9/11. May [we] every year see the US burning.

She's a malicious creep who celebrates the mass murder of the innocent. I don't know about the US State Department investigating her, but somebody should be investigating the US State Department to find out how and why they are giving awards to enemies of humanity.

Samira Ibrahim's personal opinion about Israel, Saudi's, etc. are her own and have nothing to do with her courageous act against the SCAF.

He courageous act against SCAF doesn't change the fact she's a despicable human being that the US State Department has no business whatsoever of bestowing honors upon.

After all 'Freedom of Speech' is what the US preaches all the time around the world.

Fist off, you make it sound like that's a bad thing? Secondly, where did you see anyone advocating her right to freedom of expression should be curtailed? I hope you're not suggesting that free speech means nobody is accountable and responsible for the things they say, no matter how vile. And these are very vile tweets she has made, indeed. As bad as I've ever seen.

So, what is your point?

I don't know what Jason's point is, but mine is that she's a horrible example of a human being, and last I checked that's not the type of person the US State Department honors. What does it say about alleged American values when our diplomats praise such a dirtbag of a person?

And, Canadian, did you read those comments? What did you think of them? Don't be shy. Tell us how you really feel about a woman who glorifies the attacks on 9/11 of 2001? Who praises the mass murder of Israeli tourists in Bulgaria? Do you personally know anybody that disgusting?

The International Criminal Court (I.C.C.) in The Hague has a warrant for U.S. citizens George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Condoleezza Rice, and Alberto Gonzales for their criminal policy and practice of “extraordinary rendition” perpetrated upon about 100 human beings, yet you moan complain about an Egyptian female's comments (be they good or bad). Your country has had more wars than any other county in the last 200 years and have killed and displaced more people to enrich your multinational energy and arms industries.If you do not realize these facts, you have a problem!

The International Criminal Court (I.C.C.) in The Hague has a warrant for U.S. citizens George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, George Tenet, Condoleezza Rice, and Alberto Gonzales...

No, they don't. You just made that up, you lying scum.

Your country has had more wars than any other county...

No, we haven't. You just made that up, you lying scum.

If you do not realize these facts, you have a problem!

We don't "realize" your fairy tales are "true" and we have a problem? :D

... yet you moan complain about an Egyptian female's comments (be they good or bad).

Are you implying that they may not be bad? That it may not be justified to criticize somebody who praises the mass murder of innocent human beings? If so, you might want to check with a psychologist and see if it's really everyone else who has "a problem", but not you. Just saying!

Please stop the hypocrisy. Please don't pretend as if USA so dearly promoted values of honesty integrity freedom of speech and democracy are not violated by Americans themselves all the time. How many people indeed haven't died under your watch?? Even in your own country where conservatives get rich supporting the deaths of innocent people (shooting in the USA, victims in the Middle East to start the list)... It's disgusting!!

So stop the hypocrisy and stop your act of superficiality trying to put Egyptians off as ignorant conservative and not worthy of a better future. Because as far as I can tell its mainly history's course of events that created the shitty situation Egypt is in now with the support of many foreign relations who never want to admit they contributed to the regime which has done so much harm to Egypt. USA at nr. 1, undeniably so!!

Egyptians are free to do what they want and let them learn and experience by themselves .. If you want to support them nevertheless (like senator Kerry suggested) that's all right. But don't be a hypocrite to say that the US doesn't want to support Egypt all of a sudden because they are not in the state you'd wished they were in (Non islamist) .. Democracy and the cleaning of a mess never comes by magic.. Not even in your beloved USA where democracy cost a lot in history!!!

Which part did you find funny? The part where I scoffed at obvious misinformation, or the part where I said somebody who tells malicious lies to promote a political agenda is scum?

Please stop the hypocrisy. Please don't pretend as if USA...

I didn't do any of that. Sorry. That's not on me. I pointed out several falsehoods another contributor was responsible for.

Even in your own country where conservatives get rich supporting the deaths of innocent people (shooting in the USA, victims in the Middle East to start the list)... It's disgusting!!

Show me some evidence of conservatives crowing over the mass-murder of innocent human beings. If you can't, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you why you believe it's appropriate for the US State Department to honor a woman who has repeatedly expressed joy when innocents, including Americans, have been murdered in cold blood.

I've asked you to back up your opinions before, Sarah. I hope you're more willing to explain yourself now than you were then.

So stop the hypocrisy and stop your act of superficiality trying to put Egyptians off as ignorant conservative and not worthy of a better future.

I've told you repeatedly that I consider Egyptians as a people, and the Muslim Brotherhood (which the people of Egypt elected) in particular, to be enemies of the United States. What makes you think I care about what Egyptians are worthy of? What I care about is my country protected itself from Egyptians who mean to do it and us Americans harm. The way it looks from where I'm sitting is that the Obama Administration is doing the exact opposite, and that bothers me.

Bottom line, though, is what does it matter what I think Egyptians are worthy of? Is it up to me, or my country, to deliver a better future for Egyptians? Egyptians should get exactly what they deserve, no more and no less, just like the rest of us. Do you think Egypt deserves the support of the US? If so, maybe you can explain why? In detail, I mean? But we've agree to disagree about this already, haven't we? :)

Because as far as I can tell its mainly history's course of events that created the shitty situation Egypt is in now with the support of many foreign relations who never want to admit they contributed to the regime which has done so much harm to Egypt.

Mubarak was the successor of Sadat, who was the successor of Nasser. The US didn't create that regime in any of its three iterations, did it? What is the deal with Egyptians refusing to own the consequences of their own choices? How long has this been going on? Only 60 years or is it thousands? No wonder your country is so hosed up, when you spend all your time waiting for outsiders to fix your messes for you, and slandering them when they don't.

Egyptians are free to do what they want and let them learn and experience by themselves ...

I think we're past that. We're at the part where Egyptians pay for their mistakes. Obama needs to get out of the way and let that process play out.

- Which part did you find funny? The part where I scoffed at obvious misinformation, or the part where I said somebody who tells malicious lies to promote a political agenda is scum?

Please back up your opinion ... because anonymous is telling the truth ... please convince me why he is a liar ...

- Show me some evidence of conservatives crowing over the mass-murder of innocent human beings. If you can't, then I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask you why you believe it's appropriate for the US State Department to honor a woman who has repeatedly expressed joy when innocents, including Americans, have been murdered in cold blood.

1. The mess the Bush Jr. administration created during and after their so called 'war on terror' ... I can write it out in numbers if you want, but I think you know very well what I'm talking about ...2. The Jewish lobby .... In the US politicians and the media support Israel and defend its policies. I don't see anyone cry about the huge number of innocently killed Palestines because of Israels crimes against humanity for which the US provided military, diplo­matic and financial aid. Now if you want numbers, just ask ... 3. Again please stop the hypocrisy .. US is so innocent ...

- I've told you repeatedly that I consider Egyptians as a people, and the Muslim Brotherhood (which the people of Egypt elected) in particular, to be enemies of the United States. What makes you think I care about what Egyptians are worthy of? What I care about is my country protected itself from Egyptians who mean to do it and us Americans harm.

And how exactly do Egyptians (80 million strong and in your eyes all of them self declared enemies of the USA) want to destroy your country, because that's what enemies usually want right ?? please back up your opinion ...

-Mubarak was the successor of Sadat, who was the successor of Nasser. The US didn't create that regime in any of its three iterations, did it? What is the deal with Egyptians refusing to own the consequences of their own choices? How long has this been going on? Only 60 years or is it thousands? No wonder your country is so hosed up, when you spend all your time waiting for outsiders to fix your messes for you, and slandering them when they don't.

Did I ever say they created the regime?? no .... But US has provided military andeconomic aid to Egypt since the 70s. ...... That's a key factor for any regime to be able to maintain it's oppressive actions. A simple fact. Just because there is an Islamist regime now and the US is concerned that aid will be used to destroy the US or Israel for that matter, aid has to be stopped and Egypt has to just see for herself without the 40 year long aid of the US (wasn't Mubarak the leader of an Islamic country??) ... what did you expect from democracy in Egypt?? a fairytale?

- No wonder your country is so hosed up, when you spend all your time waiting for outsiders to fix your messes for you, and slandering them when they don't.

Oh you mean how Egyptians fought for political independence starting from the Ottomans, the French to the British and how of course being a poor country could not pay for all the Western goods, so yes needed help from other countries but at the same time building many vital relations as well as signing a peace treaty with Israel and everything that happened after and in between good and bad?

Having been under military rule for over 60 years has done nothing but harm to Egypt (let me repeat again the US has a big part in aiding this very military rule).....

God almighty .... I really don't get how 'the greatest nation on earth, a great democracy itself' you represent, doesn't understand the complex process Egypt is in finding her way even if she fell flat on her face already and will continue doing so until she reaches to be a true civilian state. And until she reaches that state it is perfectly ok to support her economically....

- I think we're past that. We're at the part where Egyptians pay for their mistakes. Obama needs to get out of the way and let that process play out.

No we are not. How fast do you think a country can turn itself into a well functioning democracy? The US has also been part of the process. Point.

I think I back up my opinions quite well ... If they don't live up to your expectations it's not my problem at all .... You may say others promote a political agenda, the same goes for you I guess ... the 'Egypt is a self declared enemy of the US and the US should completely forget about Egypt' political agenda .... and it's ok ... we are all entitled to our own opinion ...

Just don't defame all 80+ million of Egyptians .. that's completely unfair and ignorant really..

SAMIRA,S PROBLEM IS HER DESIRE TO COME ACROSS AS A HERO EVERY WHERE.SHE LIED IN THE USA WHEN SHE DENIED THAT HER TWITTER COMMENTS WERE NOT HER SO SHE CAN RECIEVE THE AWARD OF COURAGE.AND THEN THE SAME SAMIRA STATED ON THE EGYPTIAN TV THAT SHE REFUSED TO APPLOGIZE FOR HER REMARKSAFTER SHE WAS PRESSURED.SAMIRA DOES NOT DESERVE THIS AWARD.TRUE COURAGE ONLY FOR PEOPLE WHO FEELS FOR THE LOSS OF INNOCENT LIVES.

Please back up your opinion ... because anonymous is telling the truth ... please convince me why he is a liar ...

You want me to prove the person is lying? Isn't it their job, or yours, to prove that claims of fact are actually facts? Show me the arrest warrants from the International Criminal Court. Should be easy to do, right? Show me the evidence that the US has started more wars than any other country in history.

1. The mess the Bush Jr. administration created during and after their so called 'war on terror' ... I can write it out in numbers if you want, but I think you know very well what I'm talking about ...2. The Jewish lobby .... In the US politicians and the media support Israel and defend its policies. I don't see anyone cry about the huge number of innocently killed Palestines because of Israels crimes against humanity for which the US provided military, diplo­matic and financial aid. Now if you want numbers, just ask ...3. Again please stop the hypocrisy .. US is so innocent ...

Where's the evidence of American conservatives making public statements in which they gloated about and celebrated the mass murder of innocent human beings? You engage in this kind of moral relativity and then accuse me of being a hypocrit?

What this woman said on her twitter is disgusting, and if a prominent American of any political persuasion said any such thing they would have been buried by the negative feedback in a matter of minutes, by their fellow Americans. The fact Egyptians didn't react in a similar manner is very telling, as is the fact that even you, who seems reasonable (for an Egyptian) to me, has difficulty understanding exactly waht's so bad about those tweets. It's kind of "Decent Human Beings 101", isn't it? How can anyone hope to build a modern prosperous civilization when their population is so ignorant and backwards that even the most enlightened don't object to monstrous expressions of violent intent?

And how exactly do Egyptians (80 million strong and in your eyes all of them self declared enemies of the USA) want to destroy your country, because that's what enemies usually want right ??

I said "as a people", which means collectively. Now you are insisting I prove every individual in Egypt meets my collective criteria? Are you denying that most Egyptians do? If not, then you're attempting semantics, even though I already included a disclaimer in my initial comment :)

Did I ever say they created the regime?? no .... But US has provided military andeconomic aid to Egypt since the 70s. ...... That's a key factor for any regime to be able to maintain it's oppressive actions. A simple fact.

That was the deal Sadat negotiated with the US. You would have rather the US didn't honor its treaty commitments to Egypt? And yet, you want the US to honor those very same treaty commitments NOW, with the Muslim Brotherhood in power? Makes no sense, does it?

Just because there is an Islamist regime now and the US is concerned that aid will be used to destroy the US or Israel for that matter, aid has to be stopped and Egypt has to just see for herself without the 40 year long aid of the US (wasn't Mubarak the leader of an Islamic country??)

That's a pretty big "just because", isn't it?

... what did you expect from democracy in Egypt?? a fairytale?

I never expected democracy in Egypt. Egypt will be one of the last places on this planet of ours to be democratic, if it ever is. When did I say I thought Egyptians were ready for democracy?

God almighty .... I really don't get how 'the greatest nation on earth, a great democracy itself' you represent...

I don't represent the United States. I'm just offering my personal opinions on a blog.

...doesn't understand the complex process Egypt is in finding her way even if she fell flat on her face already and will continue doing so until she reaches to be a true civilian state.

I'm under no obligation to be kind and tolerant to people who hate me and would like to see me dead. Nor am I under any obligation to pretend they are better people than they seem to be, or that they've just been the victims of a cruel fate rather than the victims of their own malice and stupidity.

... And until she reaches that state it is perfectly ok to support her economically....

Let soembody that Egyptians don't despise support Egyptians, if they care to. I don't understand this sense of entitlement when it comes to US aid and support. What's going on in the world when even America's self-avowed enemies expect help from America? It's weird, isn't it?

No we are not. How fast do you think a country can turn itself into a well functioning democracy? The US has also been part of the process. Point.

Americans were more democratic in 1750 while still English colonies than Egyptians are now, because England was more democratuc in the 18th century than Egypt is now. Likewise, Americans were orders of magnittude more enlighteended 250 years ago than Egyptians are now. And yet you say that democracy didn't even take hold well in America in the early days? Well, what hope does Egypt have then? Will Egypt be peaceful and prosperous country in a time frame the rest of the world can live with, or would it be safer for the rest of the world to let Egypt sink and let Egyptians learn the hard way that their attitudes and behavior must change?

I think I back up my opinions quite well ...

You turn everything around on me instead of consolidating your own points. A trick, and sometimes an effective one, but not at all the same as making convincing arguments :)

Just don't defame all 80+ million of Egyptians .. that's completely unfair and ignorant really..

And aren't you here in this thread defending an Egyptians woman who does far worse when it comes to Americans and Israelis, instead of taking her to task for what she said, as you have with me?

I never even said anything about Samira. So how can you know my opinion about this matter??!!

If you don't even realize your own country is far from perfect then our discussion ends here really. You want me to provide evidence for something which is undeniable (the US in its whole history up till this very day has had a very violent track record, including the Israel/Palestinian conflict) ... Apparently your previous president and his ridiculous actions don't provide evidence.

Samira doesn't represent the majority of Egyptians. If she does please provide me the evidence and show me this majority. She doesn't represent them just as you don't represent the US as you say. But still the majority of Egyptians are ignorant according to you.

Now if your statement is true, let's speak again after 5 years. If you will not have been shot by any Egyptian....

This is my last comment in this tread. Your prejudice about Egyptians makes me sad. Have you ever even been there?

Sarah, you may not have said anything specifically about Samira but you surely did come across as being defensive about her. And me, saying the US was perfect? I've criticized US policy towards Egypt in just about every comment I've made on this blog! You didn't notice? :)

As for America's "violent track record", that's certainly true. The US was born in revolution against the most powerful empire in the world at the time, and has fought in just about every major conflict since then up until today. Whether the US was the aggressor or whether the US was in the wrong in most or even some of those cases, history will be the judge, won't it? I'm pretty comfortable with history's verdict, so far. No matter how bad people might think the US is, in almost every case our enemies have been far worse. But this is really a beside the point. The original commenter said that the US had started more wars than any other country in history. That was a lie. And I pointed out it was a lie.

Thank You for your comment Please keep it civilized here , I will not tolerate any insult in my blog or any racist or hateful commentThe Comments in this blog with exclusion of the blog's owner do not represent the views of the blog's owner