With the launch of Pokemon Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon (USUM), the influx of new Move Tutor moves, Egg Moves, Ultra Beasts, and Pokemon is bound to have metagame-changing implications on the Doubles OU metagame. This thread is intended to be your go-to resource if you aren't caught up with the metagame shifts, as well as your chance to contribute to the cutting edge of this brave new world!

The OP of this thread will be regularly updated as new trends and information become available. Everything you need to know to stay in the loop is below. If you think there's anything missing, please comment!

This could end up being a decent Life Orb attacker and offensive Tailwind setter (akin to what Hydreigon was in XY). Life Orb Naganadel OHKOs Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele and Tapu Bulu with Sludge Bomb. It doesn't quite get the OHKO on Tapu Fini, but it comes awfully close:

In return, none of the Tapus (bar Choice Scarf Lele) win the matchup against Naganadel. A base Speed of 121 allows it to outspeed Mega Salamence for the Draco Meteor / Dragon Pulse snipe, and with access to Flamethrower/Fire Blast/Heat Wave, it has techs against Steel-types like Ferrothorn. Alternatively, it can probably forego Dragon coverage for Tailwind as a speed control tech.

In a nutshell, Stakataka is basically like an Aggron that can set Trick Room and has an absolutely rock bottom Speed stat. It also has a very efficient stat distribution. With a base Attack of 131 and a base Speed of 13, Stakataka hits most targets extremely hard with Gyro Ball. Rock/Steel is pretty terrible defensive typing, but a base 211 Defense stat helps patch that up a bit. At this point, its main niche seems to be as an offensive Trick Room setter with an offensive presence comparable to Hoopa-U.

Alternatively, a set running Choice Band would make for a deadly Trick Room sweeper, notably being able to OHKO Tapu Fini with Gyro Ball, as well as _possibly_ a usable "fake Tyranitar" on semi-room teams. Stakataka also gets a relatively diverse movepool, with options like Superpower, Stomping Tantrum and Zen Headbutt to consider.

This could've had potential if it hit a better speed tier. Alas, it's basically a frailer, faster Chandelure that still isn't quite fast enough. I'll edit this OP if someone figures out a good niche for this mon, but at first glance it looks really, really bad.

At first glance it seems like a worse Tapu Koko that doesn't get Electric Terrain, but it does have a neat movepool including a 100 BP STAB Electric-type attack (Plasma Fists) that also acts like Ion Deluge, as well as Superpower, Fire Punch, Knock Off and Fake Out. It might be okay with Life Orb or Assault Vest?

e: not released yet

Noteworthy changes to VR-ranked Pokemon

Tapu Fini learns Icy Wind and Knock Off

Thanks to Move Tutors, Tapu Fini gains access to Icy Wind and Knock Off - two utility moves that give Tapu Fini yet more flexibility as a bulky utility Pokemon. It also gains access to some more obscure moves like Gravity and Trick.

Kartana learns Tailwind, allowing for guaranteed critical hits

Kartana gains access to Tailwind and Knock Off, among other moves. Flynium Z-boosted Tailwind raises Kartana's critical hit ratio to a point where Leaf Blade and Night Slash are guaranteed to land a critical hit 100% of the time. The speed boost intrinsic to Tailwind also (potentially) means that Kartana can now afford to run an Adamant Nature, or sacrifice some Speed EVs for a bit more Special Defense.

Tapu Koko didn't get as much of a buff as Tapu Fini, but it did gain access to Electroweb which might be neat on Assault Vest sets, as well as an expanded Physical movepool that includes Thunder Punch and Iron Head.

At first glance this move seems bad. But, if you think about it, it's essentially equivalent to a Ground-type elemental punch, and this move has been distributed quite broadly, including to Pokemon like Mega Metagross, Tyranitar, and Mega Swampert. A 75 Base Power single-target Ground move has the equivalent power of a spread-reduced Earthquake, and Stomping Tantrum is not nerfed by Grassy Terrain. Among a few other Pokemon, I can see this move being really useful for Mega Metagross as a means of hitting Steel-types and Fire-types in one slot, patching up its 4MSS a bit. I haven't confirmed if Stomping Tantrum gets a Tough Claws boost, but in theory it should considering it's a contact move.

Pokemon you wouldn't expect to learn Defog, learn Defog

Defog

-1 evasion; clears user and target side's hazards.

OU players are probably shook by this lol. This probably matters more in OU than DOU, but the distribution of Defog extended to Pokemon like Landorus-T, Tapu Koko, Rotom-W, etc. which could make Stealth Rock a bit easier to counter on DOU teams, given a lot of these Pokemon can actually spare a moveslot to run Defog.

Like Stomping Tantrum, this isn't a remarkable move in itself but it was widely distributed to a number of viable Pokemon, including several that can exploit the Z-Move effect to doubles the user's speed. Among the currently ranked DOU mons that can access this move, we have: Mega Gengar, Tapu Lele, Genesect, Mega Metagross, Bronzong, Cresselia, Gothitelle, Porygon2, Porygon Z, and Rotom-W. Tapu Lele in particular seems like a great candidate for this move - it's an easy move to run on Psychium Z Lele sets because the third moveslot is flexible and if you don't need the speed boost you can just nuke the opponent with a Z attack. In a pinch, even just having Ally Switch in the back might make it easier for Lele to dance around Pokemon like Marshadow and Salamence by creating a 50/50 situation between Ally Switch and Protect while Lele's partner tries to take them down.

Celesteela's already broad movepool now includes Superpower

Celesteela gained access to a number of new moves you wouldn't think a bamboo rocket should have, but the one that stood out to me was Superpower. Celesteela was already a decent check to sand teams, but being able to OHKO Tyranitar makes it an even better sand check.

Alolan Muk learns Recycle via Move Tutor. This, combined with its ability Gluttony, will allow Alolan Muk to run a Recycle + pinch berry set similar to Snorlax. If Marshadow ever gets banned, Curse + Recycle is going to be dumb on this thing.

Sticky Web Araquanid

Sticky Web has a lot of potential as a hazard in DOU, but in SM there are no good setters for it (think Leavanny, Galvantula and Smeargle). Araquanid can now learn Sticky Web through breeding, and will probably make a great user of Sticky Web; Araquanid hits decently hard with Water Bubble-boosted Liquidation, acts as a natural check to Trick Room teams thanks to its low speed, and has incredible Special bulk. Because Araquanid's offensive movepool is so linear anyway, it can easily afford to dedicate its third slot to Sticky Web. One Pokemon I really think this will help check is Marshadow; after a Sticky Web drop, Jolly 252 Speed Marshadow only hits 257 Speed, leaving it wide open to attacks from Tapu Lele and any "mid speed" Pokemon that can EV at least up to 258 Speed.

Z-Move + Close Combat Kommo-o

Kommo-o learns Close Combat now, and also has access to an exclusive Z-Move Clangorous Soulblaze which has 180 Base Power and raises all of Kommo-o's stats by +1. Thanks to Move Tutors, it also gets access to better coverage moves ranging from the elemental punches to Stomping Tantrum and Iron Head. However, being x4 weak to Fairy still sucks, and Marshadow is a huge threat. Pairing Kommo-o with Amoonguss and Scarf Tapu Lele will probably help significantly.

Iron Head Togedemaru

Thanks to Move Tutors, Togedemaru finally learns Iron Head as well as some interesting support-oriented options like Helping Hand and Super Fang. It also gains access to Endeavor, which could be interesting given one of its abilities is Sturdy. Togedemaru seems to have more potential in USUM as a viable Fake Out / general support Pokemon.

It's highly possible that USUM brought other great new movesets to Pokemon we wouldn't expect to have a competitive use. For those that are curious/interested in uncovering the next great Pokemon, a full list of every Pokemon's movepool can be found here: https://pastebin.com/raw/yy8wTD0G

The King Of Games

I thought I would write up a post to explicitly state how we are handling new Pokemon entering the tier throughout the generation.

The schema is as follows....

Any newly introduced Pokemon with a BST of 680 or higher will by default start in Doubles Ubers
- This rule only affects new pokemon and doesnt affect currently available pokemon with over 680 BST that are already legal in DOU
- Pokemon with a BST of below 680 but have a Mega Stone which puts them above 680 after Mega evolving will start in DOU
- Pokemon with 680 or above BST but are required to hold a mandatory Z Crystal will by default start in Doubles Ubers

The first question that I am sure many people are asking is "Why 680?".

680 happens to be the magic minimum benchmark that GameFreak likes to use which is shared by pretty much all the cover legends besides Groudon and Kyogre which for whatever reason are 670. For this reason it will pretty much catch most of the default Doubles Ubers pokemon. If extreme cases like Kyogre and Groudon who arent caught by the schema show up then they will start at DOU but the council should be very responsible in terms of quick banning it. Do not particularly expect those cases to show up as GameFreak has been fairly consistent with the 680 rule after Generation 3 but rest assured that pokemon like them will likely be put up for a quickban vote.

Whats the deal with the differences between Mega Stone and Z Crystal for over 680 BST Pokemon?

In the Mega Stone case, the pokemon completely trades its item slot to go from under 680 BST to above 680 BST. The item slot is required to be the Mega Stone which grants nothing further other than maybe getting a benefit from an ability change, but losing out on the ability to run something like a Z Crystal, Life Orb, Assault Vest, or Choice Scarf prevents it from getting much stronger. Some examples of these pokemon are Mega Tyranitar, Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Mega Salamence.

In the Z Crystal case where a pokemon has over 680 BST but are locked into having to hold a crystal, the trade off is marginal as it still benefits from the high BST and Z Crystals are considered extremely powerful items so it doesnt feel like a significant cost. This Z Crystal rule is here to future proof for potential cases similar to Ultra Necrozma.

Where are all new pokemon being placed?

Necrozma Dawn Wings and Necrozma Dusk Mane formes are both banned from DOU by the 680 rule. The Ultra Necrozma form, which uses these two as a base but with a required Z crystal, is by default banned since its two ways to transform are banned. Even if either one or both become DOU legal, Ultranecrozium Z which represents how to make Ultra Necrozma form would be banned by the Z Crystal Rule. All the other new Pokemon will start off in DOU

Will the council do anything further than follow the above when new Pokemon come out?

The above schema is merely guidelines for initial tiering placement. The Council can still vote to quickban and even free pokemon from Doubles Ubers if needed. For example, Hoopa-Unbound last gen when it entered the Tier was a 680 BST pokemon which was treated as it was Doubles OU to start and a vote was initiated where it needed a majority to Ban it to Doubles Ubers. Under the current schema, if a completely new pokemon similar to Hoopa Unbound's case were to enter the tier and a vote was brought up then it would be treated as a drop from Doubles Ubers and need a majority to free it in Doubles OU.

This is something that can probably be used for awhile until some new mechanics and exceptions arise, in which case it will be updated

TLDR: Necrozma-Dawn Wings and Necrozma-Dusk Mane forms are both banned from Doubles OU

my success story

Some USUM Day One teams that I'll probably laugh at a couple months down the line but I've been playing a lot today, feel free to use these as a base if you don't know where to start with all the new mons/tutors. My first impressions are:

While having the most promise, Naganadel is a big let down, it needs to be hitting things super effectively otherwise its neutral damage is pretty poor. The Hydreigon comparison is pretty accurate, but it trades better coverage for less firepower and the lack in damage output on neutral is a big deal. Will probably work its way onto some teams, but probably has a Tier 4 ceiling on the VR.

Stakata is the most exciting UB to come out, breathing some new life into Trick Room as both a setter and abuser, and having a lot of neat support options. While its typing isn't great, its stats and movepool make up for this and allow it to perform a TR setter role very well. Gyro Ball / Stone Edge / Trick Room and one of Protect / Stealth Rock / Screens / Toxic / Wide Guard / Ally Switch make it something I expect to be tier 2-3, not metagame defining but it has a role and does it well.

Blacephalon isn't anything special but I don't think anybody expected it to be. Its speed is too low to make up for its horrible bulk, but its special attack means you at least get off one good attack. I can see this working in VGC since trades are more valuable there, but in DOU it'll probably only show up on memey mono-fire teams with sun-boosted Mind Blown.

Necrozma gets a really cool movepool boost and I'm pretty excited to see what people do with it. While I legitimately forgot it was a Pokemon mid-SM, Earth Power, Photon Geyser, and Heat Wave revitalize Necrozma and it can be an offensive TR setter with nice access to Rocks or as a CM Setter/BP Recipient, though the latter won't be seen too much unless Marshadow finally gets the boot.

Speaking of, nothing added hurts Marshadow very much and honestly with Stakataka being good this only makes Marshadow better.

Other tutor moves: Icy Wind Fini is going to be really good, STABs/Icy Wind/Support filler of choice @ 50% berry is going to be super dangerous.

Electroweb Koko would be good if Koko could have like 6 moves but it doesn't really want to give up Tbolt or Volt Switch on AV. Might be a decent 3rd move on standard Koko?

Stomping Tantrum (henceforth known as Ground Punch) is really good on Metagross, allows it to get over its inability to beat other steels. On non-Lele builds you can drop Zen and just run Iron Head/Ice Punch/Ground Punch, and Lele builds probably appreciate Metagross carrying Ground Punch as its filler of choice.

Recycle Muk is a very good Pokemon if you're not facing Marshadow, it's pretty much just Snorlax with better stabs and less coverage. Should make some appearances but nothing significant unless Marsh exits the scene.

Stakataka semiroom, Stak has really solid synergy with both Mence and Bulu and between Grassy Terrain and Chople only Water moves are gonna KO Stakataka so you should be able to get off a TR nearly every game

Necrozma BP team, it's pretty silly but something that could probably be cool if Marsh goes. Photon Geyser is chosen over Stored Power since it can KO Marshadow without any boosts and hits super hard at +1 and beyond.

I wanted to at least try one team with Blacephalon and this is what I got. Scarf seems like its best set and this lets it threaten mons Gardevoir doesn't like as well as epic 420 swag Mind Blown + Telepathy.

Wanted to build a non-TR Stakataka team, he gets Ground Punch which pairs well with his coverage since it gets walled by Steels otherwise. Any of his attacks could be the Z here, I just chose Steelium to give it a Steel move that doesn't conflict with the teams other speed control.

Lets keep our secrets dirty

this is just something I tossed together real quick when I woke up. Stakataka is probably going to be the most promising new mon we got but Necro is looking to be really interesting with all of the new toys it gets. The team lacks a mega cause I just woke up when I built it but other than that it seems to be working well enough to share, it's not really a great ladder team but better vs players who are a little more experienced

This spread mixes the defense investment of the CM set with enough SpD to live the strongest hit I could think of (Koko Thunder in ETerrain)

Also I've tried NP Naganadel with Fire Blast over Draco Meteor for a couple games and it's all right but Marshadow exists and dunks it if you can't get a timely KO. (I haven't played much more because Marshadow dunks on that whole team)

Stakataka is very dangerous and powerful, as I expected. Gyro Ball is stupid powerful, and Stone Edge is great secondary STAB coverage.

Necrozma is also better than I expected. I don't think Photon Gyser or Earth Power are game changers for this mon, I just think we underestimated it in SM. Kasib Berry + Prism Armour basically turn a Ghost-type move into a resisted hit. Right now I'm using it as kind of a "third" setter that has a bit more bulk to set up in later game scenarios, or when Staka or Hoopa-U would be too easy to pressure. I'm sure there's a better spread but right now I'm just using 252 HP / 252+ SpA. People stopped using Cress because it's too passive, so I don't know why people were inclined to EV Necrozma like a fake Cress. I'm using Calm Mind here since this team doesn't really struggle against steels, but you can also run Earth Power or Heat Wave if you want.

Anyone think Kommo-O has promise? Its clangorous soulblaze can only be blocked by TWO fairy types (one isn't enough). And it gets +1 each stat and is a spread move (hitting both targets does not increase stat by +2 though). Rage Powder/Follow Me really helps outside of spread moves. The problem is that Clangorous Soulblaze is special but Kommo-O has a better physical moveset.

Anyone think Kommo-O has promise? Its clangorous soulblaze can only be blocked by TWO fairy types (one isn't enough). And it gets +1 each stat and is a spread move (hitting both targets does not increase stat by +2 though). Rage Powder/Follow Me really helps outside of spread moves. The problem is that Clangorous Soulblaze is special but Kommo-O has a better physical moveset.

I tried it, and watched a few others use it. I was pretty underwhelmed. It's easy to force out, Close Combat negates the Def/SpD boost, and +1 attack isn't doing too much when the opponent can just switch in an intimidate user - a lot of drawbacks for a mon that can only set up once. I'm almost ready to say you're better of just using Dragon Dance over the z move, but we'll see.

friends don't let friends play frogs

I've been playing around with Scrafty a bit and I think it's actually pretty good. This probably has a lot to do with Fake Out - it's not as much of a big deal in a bulky meta like the one we had before, but in an offensive meta Fake Out is really strong and can make a big difference in the early to mid game. Intimidate is also a really big selling point, considering there was no competition for that role beyond Lando-T and Mence beforehand. I haven't been using a very exciting set or anything (Fightinium Z with High Jump Kick is really fun but that's probably the only notable thing about it), but it just seems to work really well. What other Fake Out users are running around? I haven't seen much else, but I've heard of people trying Togedemaru and Incineroar...

I've been playing around with Scrafty a bit and I think it's actually pretty good. This probably has a lot to do with Fake Out - it's not as much of a big deal in a bulky meta like the one we had before, but in an offensive meta Fake Out is really strong and can make a big difference in the early to mid game. Intimidate is also a really big selling point, considering there was no competition for that role beyond Lando-T and Mence beforehand. I haven't been using a very exciting set or anything (Fightinium Z with High Jump Kick is really fun but that's probably the only notable thing about it), but it just seems to work really well. What other Fake Out users are running around? I haven't seen much else, but I've heard of people trying Togedemaru and Incineroar...

I'm kinda miffed Stakataka is so slow, because I thought I was on a breakthrough with Crabominable since it has Thunder Punch now, and here's a thing with a Rock STAB and 30 less base speed. The hell is Crabominable doing with 43?

I'll have to continue the arms race and run something with 10 base speed!

And people will run Munchlax to take out the Trapinches, and then we'll have hit rock bottom.

In all honesty, Stakataka needs a beast boost or its Z-move to OHKO Crabominable so I still have complete faith in my niche full trick room offense guy. Stakataka is making Trick Room too mainstream though, I liked being a weird hipster.

I'm kinda miffed Stakataka is so slow, because I thought I was on a breakthrough with Crabominable since it has Thunder Punch now, and here's a thing with a Rock STAB and 30 less base speed. The hell is Crabominable doing with 43?

I'll have to continue the arms race and run something with 10 base speed!

And people will run Munchlax to take out the Trapinches, and then we'll have hit rock bottom.

In all honesty, Stakataka needs a beast boost or its Z-move to OHKO Crabominable so I still have complete faith in my niche full trick room offense guy. Stakataka is making Trick Room too mainstream though, I liked being a weird hipster.

prism armour gives you some room to set up/just eat a hit from marsh and photon geyser it. photon geyser is just strong at +1 but tec rage allows necrozma to plough through tyranitar, metagross and other stuff like stakataka. setup on the steel switch and then send them to the next dimension. pair with psychic terrain for best results since marsh is obv a big problem but scarf lele helps vs it, and you dont die to sneak either. also tw is very nice. im just running max speed jolly because before i wasnt and i got outsped by a mega tar (:sogood:) but you can adjust the speed as you feel necessary.

Basically I think that this set is good because it offers something that can handle marshadow while also being good against tapu fini, setting up with ease. The need to counter marshadow is obvious. As far as fini though, I think that TR teams are just generally weak to it given that so many TR staples like scrafty, hoopa, diancie, mega camel and bronzedong struggle against it. The EVs are do:

Basically its just a setter that holds up well against two extremely prominent TR checks for fast teams. It also is a good win condition against opposing TR and threatens amoongus, which are both nice.

Basically I think that this set is good because it offers something that can handle marshadow while also being good against tapu fini, setting up with ease. The need to counter marshadow is obvious. As far as fini though, I think that TR teams are just generally weak to it given that so many TR staples like scrafty, hoopa, diancie, mega camel and bronzedong struggle against it. The EVs are do:

Basically its just a setter that holds up well against two extremely prominent TR checks for fast teams. It also is a good win condition against opposing TR and threatens amoongus, which are both nice.

Kasib Berry was definitely overlooked in the post-Marshadow SM meta. I think Earth Power and Heat Wave are shiny new toys that make Necrozma a more unpredictable and versatile Pokemon, but I think there's still potential with Calm Mind sets like the one you just posted.

http://pokepast.es/c62bef78abc5ed6f Good mon, naga is so strong why your typing it allows suppress the domain of the fairies and with accesss a Flametrower and Life orb can eat hits to mons like metagross and ferro