of course these figures remove the immersive, serious and adult aspect, comparing with other games of other companies that have never had the historical rigor and seriousness in strategy games and rather these figures are more for teenagers and casual players and not for serious people lover of history and high strategy.this new ageod game also has other things that make lose realism, immersion and historical fidelity, as the graphic representation of the units, the different types of units and historical composition of the armies, I am afraid that we will see roman armies of the republic plagued by archers, cavalry and units of any kind, if these aberrations such as the strategic map, battles, units among many other things are going to be in the game, we will see an arcade game type risk, where a barbarian tribe can conquer all of europe, without historical events , military reforms and others.i was expecting an aje 2 with new graphics, a new battle system, better AI, even more variety in historical, general units and more immersive and historical aspects.

Yes have to agree with the former posters I was hoping for an AJE2 style or something like it was in the old gmae Pax Romana, where different parties in rome where present and elections for the different magistrates where held every year, a senate where things have to pass through and senators and eques being there to recruit or being recruited waway from your faction. It also had a strong part in commerce and military actions and cards could be played for various things in military, politics, commerce or administration.

Man if I would have unlimited money I would fund the devs to complete this old gem and clear out the bugs coming up while playing longer ...

Nevertheless hoping for the best as AGEOD normaly don't let down their customers completely regarding historical immersion ...

I can understand your concerns gents, but really the game even if not AJE and not as much grognard as the AGEOD games have many things to offer to strategy players.

There are several features that are not in AJE. For example there is the whole cycle (you can break it with good management) of progress and decadence, with nations collapsing and others re-surging. Your nation is governed by a ruler with abilities (or a political party), this gives some real nice personality to your empire.

The economic development is much deeper than anything AJE had to offer also. You get dozens of buildings, some themed to nations and ethnicity. You have a whole fun gameplay on how to get the best synergy from different buildings.

You can also form provinces, and they add additional bonus to gameplay, while optionally (and we won't force you here) to reduce micro management.

Armies should be historically themed. You'll see the expected legions, phalanx, horse archers, elephants. Indeed, we use the very common way of showing armies, with 'giants'. This is an abstraction, and even if you are not too fond of it, don't throw of the baby with the water bath just because of that. See the gameplay of the game, before all. We are not making Risk or Axis and Allies in Ancient Time, that would be a very unfair statement. This is still Ageod. You'll get units abilities, frontage, supply, leadership, harbor blockade, siege, and siege breach, WEGO, etc. Is that casual, really?

And an added plus, the AI is as competent as Athena, while being super fast, like (on my admittedly powerful computer) 15 seconds to run a turn. Is that not great compared to the 3 mn of AJE?

We are doing our best here, this is a new engine, a new game. But still, this is a very deep strategy game. Keep your mind open, accept there are changes to AGEOD gameplay, but with interesting and novel twists.

Pocus, I also appreciate the explanation, which is getting me even more excited about this game.

Don Powell, thank you for your willingness to try the game on its own merits.

For myself, I have accepted that some of the things I love the most about Ageod games will be treated in a different, maybe less detailed manner. I am not a fan of the giant figures, either. Yet, as Pocus has pointed out, this game includes a lot of detail, processes turns much faster, and offers more detail in some areas.For example, it offers a way to fight very historically themed historical battles in a way that no previous AGEOD game ever did.

And I remember, when I first played Birth of a Nation so many years ago, it took me awhile to get used to Giant faces roaming the map. In time, I grew to love them.

PHilthib and Pocus, who I consider to be the best historical game development team of all time, have spent over three years working on this new system. In view of all the great gaming pleasure they have given me in the past, I feel that I owe it to them to give the new system a fair chance, and to approach it with an open mind. I am very excited about it, and expect to be delighted with the new system. I intend to buy it the same day it comes out.

I'm not the one doing the 'graphical aspect' of the engine. i.e there is a talented Canadian developer, Andrew, who is handling this stuff, dealing with maths, rendering, directX and all such things I dislike compared to coding gameplay and AI

But I don't think that would be that a big effort, programmatically. You would still get 3D models, but they would look like 2D counters. Because Microsoft DirectX is like that, it is made to run in 3D and only have some legacy 2D functions.

Now, there is also the artist bill to pay on the new graphics.

Bottom line, this is definitively doable, but I don't think it will be done unless the forum starts to speak heavily of that, so to convince the producer and the "Powers From Beyond"* that it would be nice to get.

*: Beyond the wall. The Antonine Wall. The Scots. What, you still don't get it?

I think it's important to keep an open mind and to embrace some innovation, and as such I wouldn't advocate having one or the other - but to have the option to switch back to those nice old counters would definitely be nice.

khbynum wrote:If I judge the scale right, those giants have their heads in the stratosphere. It must be hard to breathe.

Seriously, if the game is released with only those unit graphics, there is zero chance I will buy it. I'm a grown man, not a teeny-bopper.

Your attitude and fickle/picky standard is more in line with a toddler than a grown man OR a teeny-bopper.

The map is using 3D space and thus 3D objects to represent things. A square counter the size of a city or province on the map is no more 'adult' than 3D figures. Having the option is nice, but its bizarre to me it could be deal-breaker for someone. The new engine is a boon. The old engine, even on good computers, ran like garbage based on processor.

Gee, I guess those ridiculous horse heads and little towers should be replaced in Chess. The whole set from pawns to King should each get the equivalent 2-D NATO symbol for a replacement. Gentlemen, I'm retired Army and 63 years old. I have no problem using the symbolic miniatures that no doubt Alexander or Caesar used 2 millennia ago to represent movable forces on their battle maps. How better to create that feeling of immersion in the classical era?

I do prefer the old style counters, I think it would be nice of Slitherine to include that option.

But I will buy the game regardless, because it has so many interesting features, and because it is the new Ageod system and I want to support Philthib and Pocus, who have done so much to enrich my gaming life over so many years.

The difference with chess and a game like this is that with chess you know that it is full abstraction and is not meant at all to resemble a battlefield or actual troops.

The mixture of chess type pieces with terrain (more realistic than squares) seems incongruous (more than the counters IMO) - especially if they appear as giants. if they were more to scale as unit formations, I could feel better about the presentation.

I also like the counters for better "at a glance" identification of leaders and unit status - so there is also a practical consideration.

Not to say that the "giants" style is "wrong" - (that is up to individual taste) but I believe there is enough interest in at least having an option for the traditional AGEOD counters that we all know and are very fond of.

Strategic Command by Fury software does this option quite well - either style is available "in-game" and serves to satisfy both crowds.

Can I please add my voice to the protests? I am not fond at all of the 'Giant' unit representations - please can we have the option for traditional Nato-style AGEOD-style counters instead of these more [arcade] style facsimiles? Thank you!