the sba guaranteeing a entity as the order of the business, whether it is a corporation or partnership, for any small business lending, you should expect to be guaranteeing that long personally. as a small-business owner, from a lender's point of view, we want to see that you are as invested in the business as you are asking the bank to be. the idea that non recourse loans, the way you describe it, loans that you get without having yourself personally liable is not the way it works. you should assume you will guarantee the loan regardless of the structure of your business. the good news, though, for businesses like you are describing, internet business, is that the capital requirements

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for that type of business is generally small. you are able to get yourself further along and share in revenues with a smaller amount of credit need. that is where we see a lot of businesses and personal service or internet business get started, and generate revenues and be able to show growth without needing any capital, like a brick and mortar business might. >> my name is terry said. i have a retail business in san francisco for 22 years. i have a 5 04 -- 504 loan. it took me three years to get. we need more capital. i tried to get a line of credit from wells capital. i was decline. where does someone like myself go? i have a loan, i need additional funding. >> did you try through the sba?

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>> i already have an sba loan. i went to wells fargo for a line of credit and they would not give me one. >> i can speak to you about it. when we look at funds that are needed, the biggest thing we look at our cash flow. i can address that with you. unless there is an issue, at that point -- [inaudible] >> let's talk, ok. >> i have a couple of more questions. i know that the panelists have agreed to stay after for those who have specific questions. i do have one question for wells fargo.

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what are the typical rules for applying for sba loan of less than $50,000? how much money do we need to have in your bank to apply for a loan? >> i am on the smaller side of the bank. i am a transaction guy. i do not technically require one to have an account to do a loan with. what i look for, i generally start at 100,000 and up. when it is a requirement of 50,000 or less, i tend to call of the micro guys to help me out. that is right in their box. for us, the capacity for us to do the smaller side is not there as much as it is for them.

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on getting a loan through my side of the bank, i do not require an account to do that. we would like to have it, but i do not require it. >> last question for the opportunity fund and a critic representative. are you a cdfi? is san francisco and s.p.a. in support of cdfi's being established in san francisco? >> yes, we are. we were founded in 1999 with a small business loan. that is how we started our tenderloin office. >> opportunity fund is a certified cdfi, so we are providing a benefit to low and moderate-income communities.

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he is the city establishing support for new cdfi's? >> mark wanted to address that, in support of cdfi's in the city. >> we have a wealth of partners in the city. s.p.a. is just now rolling out a program for r -- will be the case by the summer. let me get one last point and on the question about relationships to lenders. the question was, do have to have an account with a bank in order to get a loan? may answer is no, but the real answer to it is certainly want to do that. one of the things we see as an important thing for you, as a

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small-business person to establish a relationship with a lender on a variety of levels before you look for funding. part of that is opening an account with them, letting a lender know about your business, understand your business, talk to them as you are growing your business. when the economy is strong, all lenders are shopping for transactions. in times are tough on credit, you want to rely on those deeper liberation ships with your lender. you want to develop a relationship with a lender. it is the case where you want to open up an account, while to have another bank services that you want to have a relationship with your lender with it because when you go to them for any loan requests, you want them to know about your business and feel like they are a partner of yours, not just that you are shopping them. if you are shopping, you are just looking for the best deal

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from them, rather than a long- term relationship. >> i want to thank everyone for coming. hopefully, you have all signed up for our updates. we are going to be hosting these on a regular basis. the next two coming up will focus on becoming a government contractor, how your small business can partner with the government. the next one will also be on how to grain your business, with tax -- green your business, tax credits available with that. for non-profit, charitable organizations, we have a workshop coming up. that is helpful for those of you who are looking to access the committee on a durable basis.

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>> also, on behalf of leader pelosi, i want to thank our panel and her staff. we are tenants in this building. i apologize for the security situation that happened upstairs. if you have concerns about it, please come and see me. i would like to convey those to the landlord here so that it does not happen again. thank you. >> hi, everybody. my name is carmen chu. why don't we get started.

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with a marking up with the department of small business -- we have been working with the department of small business. this project started when we heard from neighborhood merchants. unfortunately, they had access issues, visibility access issues. we have been working closely with many of our partners year today to educate about these -- many of our partners year today to educate about these issues. also in terms of board guidance. i want to thank all of you for coming. many of you may have assistance. i know many merchants could not be here. please do it share this information with other merchants in the area. we have virginia from the office

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of small business. we have roger from the bar association. no carla johnson from the office of disability. -- we have carla johnson from the office of disability. i want to especially it acknowledge my colleague to help us get the resources and brought legal expertise to the table. i do not want to take too much of your time. thank you for coming. >> thank you, supervisor chu. i want to express my admiration for a supervisor chu's commitment to you. so, from our office, what we heard, many small businesses

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were receiving lawsuits regarding it the ada. tonight we will hear about the legal requirements, what has been in place. any small businesses that nderst informed as far as their obligations for the ada, there are the mechanisms to provide that information to you. so, we are tasked with providing the information. there have been about 300 small businesses that have received the lawsuits. knee individuals who use this mechanism and come up -- the individual to use this mechanism. while it is important to have ada access, but we want you to

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understand there are individuals out there taking a look at your vulnerability. we have a packet of information for you tonight. we have it in english and chinese. we have a quick summary of the laws. the ada, calif. building code, the civil rights, and our experts here will elaborate. we also have a list of certified caps at work in san francisco for you. carla johnson with the mayor's office of disability has created a really good it died of out to interview your experts to make sure you are getting the best quality product for you. been next -- the money you pay

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for the inspection you can take as a tax deduction. any money that if you have taken can be applied as a tax deduction. this can be done on an annual basis. next, the opportunity, and a fund -- opportunity loan fund, providing for small businesses to pay for the inspection or to make improvements needed. to do it before you receive the lawsuit. and lastly, we of the bar association and their resources. they're providing their legal service for you. this last thing i am going to

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share with you in terms of what we have seen in our office is that with the individuals, that does not necessarily mean an individual will follow up with a lawsuit. what we've seen in our office is the individual's will send you a letter and say there were compile -- compliance issues. where people get in trouble is they ignore the letter. we need to make sure it that your pro-active and responsive. when a business receives a letter, they need to contact our office. the merchants of been very proactive -- have been very pro-

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active. the businesses that have received a letter and passed an inspection after receiving the letter have staved off a lawsuit. the cap inspection is a very good risk management tool. often it is not as durable as you may think it to be. our office is there for you as our resources. we are able to provide our services, follow-up questions in english, spanish, cantonese, and mandarin. and then -- and then, roger, you will --

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>> yes. i am an attorney in private practice. the laws in this area are strict compliance laws, and they are very specific. the federal law since 1990 indicates issues from 1998. all businesses, such as a grocery store, a dentist's office, restaurants, a doctor's office, virtually anything that a member of the public comes into the -- comes into needs to be a barrier-free. we will go over what barriers are. every public accommodation needs

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to be wheelchair-accessible. there are also other other forf disability. most of the issues we are hearing about are wheelchair accessibility issues. there is a small group of private individuals who are wheelchair-down that go around the city and they look at small businesses. and i dare say anybody in small restaurants have some accessibility issues. it is another attempt at making your building wheelchair accessible. i am not sure which of you may be merchants and which it may be landlords. the law applies to both.

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and that means you were 100% liable for any barriers to access and any damages that may be associated with those barriers. there are ways you can defend yourself. with your landlord or at senate -- or a tenant, this can avoid a lot of problems later on. the inspections offer a limited attempt at bringing a civil action for damages. it does not affect the ability to bring damage claims under the symbol laws. however, most lawyers -- they will not pursue the case.

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so, oftentimes, it works it to stop the lawsuit before it starts if you do that inspection. they are not particularly expensive. so, it is something someone would want to do. you will get a tax credit. if you need to make changes in the structure of your premises, there are also tax credits for that. most of these cases start with a letter. a demand letter. that is usually signed not by a lawyer, but by it up plaintive. the plaintiff may not be a professional plaintiff. that does not make any difference.

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the defense has been tried in court. is a civil rights statute. -- it is a civil rights statute. they can be a perfectly legitimate plaintiffs to bring a lawsuit, and there are a number of people who belong to disability organizations that actually, that is what their livelihood is, bringing these lawsuits. the gentleman over here, who was also a lawyer knows of at least one case involving two lawsuits. they started all neighborhoods. the target places like san francisco because this is an old city with old buildings, virtually none of which comply. we only have new construction that would be billed to 1988 compliance standards, usually.

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whatever kind of business you have, the building part does not enforce ada compliance. you have your architect look at the ada if you are going to make a major revision anyway. is very expensive to do that. the demand letter is a requirment for the state -- is a requirement for the state laws to be brought. for civil rights cases, you are expected to know the law and be in compliance. they do not make a demand under federal law saying they should ask you for damages. and the damages could be substantial.

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the damages are based on the number of barriers encountered by the person when they're going to inspect the premises. these people will come and visit your business barack, three, or four times. they will sit at the counter if you have a counter. they will sit at a table. that are well aware of what the legal requirements are of the height of the table and the length of the legs, whether the bathroom is compliance, whether there is appropriate sign it. the first barrier is access to the premises itself. adding is? . -- adding steps. having a ramp that is too steep is an access issue. there are ways to deal with

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those. having a power door or something of that nature. of power door -- you have seen those with the wheelchair symbol on it. it will open the door. the person on the wheelchair does not have to try to wrestle with the door to get in. it is much more immediate access if you of something like that. that is the first barrier to someone, if they are entering a business premises. the next issue is usually in bathrooms. a lot * -- a lot of times, but is difficult to comply with depending on the size of the establishment. to make a wheelchair-accessible

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bathroom, it takes a lot more space than a regular bathroom. so, it is a problem oftentimes with small businesses. especially if you have to do two of them. and it cost about $15,000 to $25,000 to build a wheelchair- accessible bathroom. for restaurants, bars, it's a truck, there is an issue on the height of the counters -- for restaurants, bars, at such wreck, there is an issue on the height of the counters. that keller would make the person wheeling up on in the chair not be able to be eye level. you cannot have it like that. you have to have a portion of

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the counter down level. it is 34 inches. i daresay most of the counters will not be that size if you have a business like that. however it may be. that is not what the normal business layout is. tables. there is a percentage based on the number of seats that have to be wheelchair-a accessible. they are required to be appropriately designated with a placard. you can get that any press run supply store. in place with commercial interiors can furnish you with those placards. you also have to have a sign out front that your business is wheelchair accessible. and various signing issues.

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each one of those things you do not have if someone must use to you is a separate claim. the statutory damages are $4,000. a person can come back three times and see three different wheelchair-accessibility issues, that is nine claims. the attorneys' fees are only recoverable -- only the plaintiff has the ability to get the attorneys' fees. if you fight a lawsuit and win, you do not get attorneys' fees. is a one-sided statute. the policy is to promote access. one of the issues for a merchant to look at is your least. virtually every commercial lease, what ever the business maybe come up switches to the

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tenants all responsibility for code compliance. what that means is coming you have to indemnify the landlord on the insurance or the least, or any money that the landlord may have a. clearly, the landlord -- the lease does not stop the plaintiff from suing the landlord. therefore, the attorney for the plaintiff is going to target the person they are getting the money from. it does not let the tenant of the hot. the tenants in their lease is contractually responsible to the landlord. there are ways that can be dealt with between the landlord and the tenant. i have represented landlords. i have represented tenants. at some point, i represented

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both because they have a common interest even in that. obviously, they both have to make the space accessible either now or later, so it is best that they work together if they can. and work together to save us -- to hire a single lawyer. they can make repairs or what ever is in their agreement. sometimes, when the tenant is the small business and does not have much cash flow, one way to do is to renegotiate the lease, where the cost is amortized over a longer period time. it is another way to spread the payments back to the less financially available person. would you do if you get one of these notices? if you have not had your property inspected already, or

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if you do not do it following this program -- which i recommend you do -- you should have an inspection by an architect who is familiar with ada issues. we call all of these laws ada, but really ada is one aspect of the federal laws. there are five or six statutes, depending on the specifics of the case. there are a series of overlapping laws, all of which require essentially the same thing. did different measures of damages and other things. the lawyers will sue you on these various labels. they all really say the same thing. the purpose of that letter is