No More Rolling: Marine Corps Announces Sleeves Down Year Round

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Effective 2014 March 09 sleeves will once again be rolled up according to a statement release by Commandant General James F. Amos. Read more here.

Marine Corps Announces Sleeves Down Year Round

Yes, you read that correctly. Effective 2011 OCT 24, per a policy update to MCO P1020.34G, Marines will now where sleeves down year round. This news coming right after the announcement that a 75% cut to Marine Tuition Assistance is now in effect is going to make for an interesting week at Marine Corps bases worldwide. Previously, Marines only wore sleeves down in the winter while in the woodland MARPAT cammies, and sleeves were rolled up during the summer in the desert MARPAT cammies.

How do you feel about MARPAT desert sleeves no longer being rolled in the summer?

New Sleeve Policy Effective 2011 OCT 24

The Marine Corps will roll sleeves down and remain sleeves down year round beginning at the start of work on Monday 24 Oct.

This may come as a blow to those who work in extreme heat or prefer the unique appearance that it gives to Marines over the other branches. Some may also chalk it up to tradition as their reason for the dislike, but all branches have rolled their sleeves at one time or another, and the Air Force and Navy both still permit it. Other Marines will praise this policy change – no longer having to fuss with trying to get their sleeves rolled perfectly during the summer months. Either way, there are sure to be Marines weighing in on both sides of the issue.

This policy change will also come as good news for those that have worn “Gunny sleeves” for the past few years. Some Marines just roll their sleeves in the dark, with one hand, and have no concept of excellence when it comes to rolling a sleeve. The sleeve just hangs above the elbow with enough space in between the bicep and the sleeve to park a Humvee. I’m sure that these Marines will be happy to see the rolled sleeve policy disappear.

Before I continue, I would like to add that if this policy change was in any way due to political or special interests, I 100% disagree with it taking place. I can make the assessment that the Marine Corps, as a whole, does NOT LIKE THIS POLICY CHANGE according to the above poll. I’m curious as to what sparked the sudden change, and we may never be informed on the reasons for it.

Personally, I like the change. I’m all about keeping it simple. I will admit that rolled sleeves offers a step up in appearance as well. I understand the desire to be set apart from the other branches, but let’s be honest, if your sleeves are the only thing that sets you apart from a soldier or a seaman… then there’s a bigger issue to deal with.

Some will argue that rolling your sleeves keeps you cooler. While I don’t have any scientific data to present, I would imagine that sleeves rolled up doesn’t actually keep a Marine any cooler. Having sleeves rolled up barely creates a cooler feel, as your sleeve being blood-clotting tight probably does more to keep heat trapped in your core than it does to produce more air flow… for your forearms.

Anything that allows more time for me to PT and less time to hassle with uniform issues is a plus. This is a big win in my book, but I welcome the vast amount of dis-heartened Marines that will probably flood this post with how much they hate the change. I understand, I just simply think that the pros outweigh the cons.

With that said, I am prepared to be the minority on this new Marine Corps uniform policy change… which doesn’t happen often

Sleeves Down Pros & Cons

Sleeves Down Pros
• No time spent rolling
• No worries about what is considered a “good” sleeve
• More mobility
• No sun farmer’s tan burnt arms for light-green Marines
• Train like you fight – sleeves are down in combat
• No more faded sleeves where they were rolled
• More safety for arms during activity

Sleeves Down Cons
• Potentially warmer, but not proven
• Marines who cut and sewn their sleeves are left with unserviceable blouses
• Lose unique Marine appearance in regards to sleeves
• Losing a sense of identity and tradition
• Could potentially lead to other changes in uniform tradition

Why Sleeves Down All Year?

I have been unable to find an official answer to this question, and with all of the reasoning and logic in the world, I honestly cannot think of a reason for the change. Usually a change like this occurs due to safety, or a logistical issue, but I don’t imagine that is the case here.

Part of me thinks that the new sleeve policy and the KIA bracelet change were just distractions from the 75% cut in Marine’s tuition assistance.

If anyone has any insight on the purpose behind this uniform change (or even a good guess), then please post it in the comments below.

I guess we just mark this down as one of those random Marine Corps changes that we’ll never understand for now.

2. EFFECTIVE 24 OCTOBER 2011, THE MCCUU WILL BE WORN WITH THE SLEEVES DOWN, YEAR ROUND. THIS CHANGE DOES NOT AFFECT TIMING OF THE SEASONAL UNIFORM CHANGE, WHICH WILL BE ADDRESSED AND ANNOUNCED IN A FUTURE MARADMIN.

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About Kevin Webb

I am passionate about life and the idea of the American dream – that all men are created equal and endowed by their creator. Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are the essence of the American idea. I have a passion for presenting conservative analysis and exposing any agenda that threatens the Constitutional ideology of the United States of America (sarcasm sometimes included).
I am a United States Marine, a husband, a father, a son, a brother, and most importantly, a God-fearing Christian.
I love basketball, camping, fitness, family, working in the community, and I confess to being a responsible Bible-toting, gun-clinging American patriot.

Next thing you know, we’re gonna get zippered blouses instead of buttons, tuck our trousers into our boots instead of using blousing bands, and then get the shitty velcro rank on the front of the close instead of physical chevrons/brass. Gents, we are sadly becoming more like the Army…

I was stationed in 29 Palms when it was sleeves down year round. I know from experience that this is a good move. 1) Its actually cooler with sleeves down. 2) Screw the hassle of rolling sleeves, with everyones idea of what a proper sleeve roll is, its a nightmare. 3) We are warriors, we dont roll sleeves in combat, so why would we here. Yes non infantry thats right, we dont roll sleeves in combat. Train aas you fight. 4) No more non-faded sleeves when time to unroll your sleeves for the field. 5) Soooo much more comfortable than sleevs up, and that means no more random arm shaking by all the Marines walking around. 6) No more ass chewings from Gunny’s and above for “Gunny rolls”.

I think it looks pretty good in garrison and I’m kinda sad to see it go. Rolling decent sleeves isn’t all that hard or time-intensive. If rolling and unrolling is too much work, keep an extra sleeves-down blouse ready for the field or whatever. Shitty sleeves are just a sign of laziness.

This is total bull s*** first of all the only people who are going to agree with any of this are lazy fuc*s who dont take pride in there uniforms. You say train as you fight than stay your ass in the field till you deploy. We have a apperance to keep and little by little we are losing it. I disagree complitily with this change and just hope nothing else will change.

I think this definitely takes away from Marine Corps tradition, thats 4 damn sure! We will no longer be known as the “Devils With White Sleeves”. But truth be told, I never liked rolling my sleeves. HELL I NEVER GOT THE ART OF SLEEVE ROLLING DOWN PAT, my wife rolled my sleeves every morning. She absolutely loved doing it and was great at it. So, if anything she’d be more hurt about this change than me

How long will be allow politicians to dictate policy and foster a generation of “Yes Men” by forcing out and cutting real leaders off at the knees? What do you think Smedley Butler, Chesty Puller, General Gray, and John Lejeune would say? God help us. We better wake up and start taking action.
Did you actually look at how insane the cons of not rolling sleeves were. Discipline is a huge aspect of being a Marine. If you remove those items and standards Marines are supposed to adhere to what are you left with?

Up- “Spirit”
Down- “Discipline”

“Sir, discipline is instant obedience to all orders, self-reliance, and teamwork Sir.”

i’m Not afraid to post my name on here, because this marine, Cpl Jordan A. Roberts sees this as another reduction in what makes marines marines; in the public eye and our enemies. the Somalians called is white sleeved men for a reason. it set us apart. bring back pointed collars, iron-on EGA’s, and keep our sleeves rolled. its that kind of attention to detail and respect for our uniform we need. i for one am proud to make nice sleeves and represent through my uniforms. men die in these uniforms, everyone we hold. lets not take away from this simple tradition….. its plain silly. and if saving 5-10 minutes by keeping sleeves down is what your concerned about, then maybe THAT is what will make us blend with other services.

This is bull#### lets just change another tradition , how about we start having our ball on NOV 15 , this is usually the way to spot a sht hot Marine or a sht bag. Ya ok I will agree with its easier to leave your sleeves down but who ever said the Marine Corps was easy. Pretty soon everyone will be getting sleeved out., and you can think General Amos for this one.. so gents when you are getting NJP for getting tattoos just look up at the 1st SGt and smile and say thank General Amos for letting me go sleeves down year round…..####### ### as aids.

The Commadant has lost his mind and is obviously out of touch with “his” Marine Corps. Marines everywhere are pissed about this and want him out of the billet. KIA bracelet ban was enough to piss everyone off.

Its ridiculous to believe that not rolling sleeves will change anything. If that is even the reason this has been done. Rolled sleeves is part of Marine Corps tradition. Its our history, something we should all be proud about and now it has been taken from us with no explanation. I think the main problem is unifomity. Marines sleeves look different. You have the Marines that roll their sleeves tight enough to amputate their arms. Then you have the Marines that roll their sleeves and like its been stated sit above the elbow. Maybe they should have changed the order. 2 inches above the elbow is what with the rolled part the width of your hand. Its a simple task to accomplis hand so called “gunny” sleeves are completely authorized.

I am against the change because I enjoy rolling my sleeves and its part of a tradition that I am proud of.

i don’t know who came up with this flat out stupid idea but clearly they know nothing of being a real marine. For those who like the idea, for the most part, I hear laziness in your justification. Maybe you should be wearing a beret and zippered blouses. For the marines who take pride in being set apart through the sharpness of your appearance, OOH-RAH! You will NEVER be confused for a soldier. Always hold on to that distinction!

Honestly I have no problem with it. I’ll say it……….I F’in hated rolling sleeves. They serve no purpose other than to “set us apart” from the other branches………..which I guess MARPAT was incapable of doing? Times change and the Marine Corps changes. Guess we should go back to fighting in wool jackets with muskets and cannons.

I guarantee this is going to be the hot topic of conversation at work for a while :/ Like we don’t have better things to worry about.

I am amazed that people think rolling sleeves is a tradition. Much like shaving facial hair is a tradition, or ridiculous inspections, or saying high and tights were tradition. Yeah right that is all shit made up by 90s Marines. Marines use to pride themselves for having longer hair than the other services due to being more hygenic. The only reason this changed is because hippies started to wear longer hair – so Marine hair started to get shorter.

My favorite line “It doesn’t look professional”. This is best said by someone who has only ever been in the Marine Corps and would never understand real professionalism.

Heres the thing, if the whole point of abandoning the tradition of sleeve rolling in garrison because we dont roll our sleeves in combat, why don’t we abandon shaving? Or getting haircuts every ####### week? I know that when we are in combat we dont have a fresh ####### shave every day. I swear they do this #### because they have nothing better to do.

I remember being 6 or 7 years old and seeing marines. For years I could not wait to b one of the few and one of the few and one of the proud. Now that I’m in I see that the corps is a bunch of lazy, shit bag load of faggots. Lazy – can’t even take 3 minutes and roll your goddamn fucking sleeves. Shit bags – enough to not even give a fuck about how they look in their uniform. Faggots – that’s right gents, the man to the left or right of you in the shower is thinking about putting his dick in your as. What the fuck hapened to the pride, what the fuck happened to the tradition, what the fuck is hapenning to my corps. The new slogan should be “the few, the proud, the same as the army”

As a young marine just starting his career in the corps I think this is ####### ########. I just had one of those moments today when I realized how much the corps means to me over the change of the uniform. Men have died for the corps and there is so much tradition behind our uniform that I’m damn near hurt that I gotta stand by for sleeves down all year round. We might as well be in the ####### army and be garbage just like the other branches. What the #### ever happened to semper fi

I love rolling my sleeves. It looks good when you can roll a tight roll when you give a sh*t about your uniform. The only thing I guess I would say benefits from this is I dont have to roll them up and down due to my job all the time. But as a post said before always have a field blouse on stand by so really its not a benefit. NOW if you let me get my damn sleeve tattoo that I been wanting forever but not allowed no more come back due to sleeves down then hey Im all for it. So basically we might as well get rid of charlie’s too since there short sleeve. I only approve it if we can get tattoos back now which the commandant has sleeve tattoos but is against it. Kinda not fair I would say

Gay as aids.
I love rolling my sleeves. Having a good roll shows that I actually give a ####. The commandant and sgtmaj have lost their ####### minds apparently. Rolling sleeves is a tradition that was started years ago. We did it to differ our selfs from the other branches and now were just falling into line.
So. No KIA bracelet
Sleeves down all year round.
Soon light duties are gonna be wearing shoes like the navy.
We’re gonna hand out no shave chits
And before long recruits will have stress cards.

The reasons I’m going to 1st CIVDIV. Cause the Marine Corps. Is slowly going to ####.

Are you kidding me….. for all of you who think this is a good idea you are as nasty as the army! how about you get out and join them because thats what we’re turning into. I joined when marines had pride in the uniform they earned, first the pride was lost when we had to go to the digital cammies, and brown boots. But now we are taking away the rolling sleeves…. seriously this is rediculous!! We didnt join the Marine Corps to be comfortable…. so if the shoes fits wear it, if you like this new change your a shit bag and need to go back to boot camp!!

i love rolling my sleeves, especially when i roll them and its nice tight, it just makes the uniform look better and us as marines its what sets apart from the navy and the army and all the other branches who arent s bad ass as we are!!!!!

i was gonna get out and go reserves but now if i have to keep my sleeves unrolled fuck it whats the point i might as well go active duty in the coast guard!!!!

I think we should be greatful leadership is using logic rather then tradition. Does anyone even know the orgin of this tradition? Now obviously getting rid of something like the blood stripe would be an insult to tradition because it has meaning. It is more logical to have sleeves down then up. The only con to this is “Tradition”. We dont wear black boots anymore because the new ones are more tactical. Sleeves down is more tactical not to mention this is a UTILITY uniform not dress uniform. We should wear Charlies more often if anything. Our enemys dont refer to us as white sleeves anymore because we go sleeves down in combat.

This is a sad day for the Marine Corps. It actually makes me want to get out. The unique appearance of sleeves rolled in the Marine fashion is a hallmark of the Corps, and one that I’ve received countless comments on from civilians and members of other services who said “I wish I could roll my sleeves to look as good as you Marines do.”

It’s a sad day when we needlessly give away our traditions. The logic of the Uniform Board for making the change is indefensible. Citing that they’ve “seen Marines operating in a deployed setting with sleeves down” and thinking that a consistent appearance is necessary across all operating forces is faulty logic. If that’s the justification, then we need to eliminate the woodland pattern uniform (since the vast majority of Marines deployed are in the CENTCOM area wearing desert uniforms), wear Kevlars instead of eight point covers (since that’s what the deployed Marines wear, and we need to all look alike), and – oh yeah – wear FROG suits (the fire retardant garments required for wear outside the wire overseas) instead of camouflage utilities.

As I said before, the logic is flawed, and the heritage, integrity, and fiber of the Marine Corps is damaged by this decision. This is the most shocking decision in my 12 year career.

Sooooo with all that the Marine Corps has to do in the world today I wonder who in the Corps had the time to think up this BS? I think that this guy needs to be stacked. Just my 2 cents
Semper Fi Marines

First off emove anything to do with what we do in country from your “cons list” because we wear frog suits in country. If we train like we fight I guess frog gear should be what we wear in garrison. I gues we should throw away our dress uniforms as we’ll cuz we don’t wear those in country. I guess we should ll just stop saluting cuz we don’t do that. Stop field day, stop the chowhall and eat mres everyday. Just stop everythin we do as marines. Well jut sleep in our sleeping system on the dirt every night, not talk to our families the whole time were enlisted, wake up clean our weapon throw on our gear nd go to work.

All of you guys talk about being good, well disciplined Marines, and then bash the Commandant for a policy change well above your paygrades. Some even go as far as to insult our command, over some garrison trash like sleeves. Sleeves were down in 29 palms year round and that policy worked fine. It prevents sunburn, actually keeps you cooler, and protects your skin. Is the measure of discipline really how much shit you need to do to your uniform before it meets standard? Will your marines proficiency or capacity to execute suffer somehow, now that his sleeves are down? Think about what you write before spouting the same shit someone else told you in the smokepit. Oh, and that service supremacy trash is getting old too. Some of the best warfighters I know are Rangers. So to all of you boots, pogs, and marine parents with illusions of greatness, humble yourselves. A cook or a supply marine bashing their Army counterparts is retarded.

OOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKK MOFO’s Honestly i agree with both sides that one, yeh its for some a hassle to roll sleeves for numerous reasons and two WAT THE HELL rolling sleeves not only helps differentiate our appearancfe and set us apart from other services but also on some what of a level (one that i quit dont know yet) helps create discipline. I though prefer rolling sleevs. Its good cause even though most marines dont notice it it helps build competetion among marines not in a bad way but helps eachother strive to be better than what they already are….case in point i come to work one day and one marine tells me damn man ur sleeves suck and he has some that r obviously better than mine i would honestly try and figure out what the hell im doing to make those bastards SCREAM motivation. Plus what the hells next sewn on ranks, velcro patches, and no more bloused boots yet tucked into the boots hell no. OOOOOOOOOMOTHAFUCKIN RAHHHHHHHHHHH
P.S. I dont want to be here when all that happens cause i dont feel like being bitch slapped by OLD MAN CHESTY.

I don’t know who you think you think you are, making any kind of statement about how the marine corps should be. You have no business recommending anyone trade out their uniforms for zippered camis, I don’t give a shit what they say or do. Just continue obsessing over the pride you get from your boot pog son’s service, and i recommend you find a marine parent blog to share your thoughts and bumper sticker slogans…

You guys need to stop spazzing out and calling each other shit have for your opinion on the matter…and stop trying to act all MOTO resighting the deffinition of diciplin on here like any body gives a shit….

Honestly I for one am all away against the this change… This was suppose to be one of our most favored traditions and what really made us who we are…. Its sad to say that it means disrespect to the Marines back then who helped carved the future of the Marine Corps We have 2day. I dnt kno whats going on rite now but this is truly unfair to all Marines who didnt get the chance to vote on the decision… We are still Americans and we still desire the right to vote.

This change is just sad. I keep hearing here that rolling sleeves is a tradition….I respectfully disagree. It isn’t a tradition, it just differentiates us in another way from other services. A squared away Marine in cammies (with rolled sleeves) projects a better image than all the other services in their dress uniforms, in my un-humble opinion. And inspecting your Marines, each other, and yourself breeds pride and attention to detail, in everything you do. Teaching Marines the correct way to wear uniforms does the same thing. This is just one more way pride is slipping from our Corps. And if the 30 minutes it takes to brush your boots clean, run a hot iron over your cammies, and roll your sleeves is too much time for you, maybe the title of Marine is too much for you as well! We pride our selves on not only our battlefield prowess but our impeccable appearence! Pride in what you do and how you look, the whole Marine Concept right?! Attention to detail in yourself, your peers, and your Marines breeds Pride…..sadly our Corps is losing it little by little. If I wanted to be a sloppy Army Dog, I would’ve joined the Army!

My boyfriend is at 29 Palms and he heard that they are enforcing the rule because someone rolled their sleeves too tight and now have to get their arms amputated! Obviously this is just hear say, but who knows?

for every Marine on here, i highly dought you actually give a crap about “tradition” every day i see Marines doing dumb shit to disgrace our uniform. You all know what im talking about. its not just the lower side of the rank, it extends all the way up the command. as far as sleeves up goes, i can give two shits about it, there are better ways to recieve discipline than doing the sleeve dance. as far as tradition goes, its not in my green monser that sleeves are traditional. BTW Marines adapt and overcome……Marines are obidient to all lawful orders….so shut your mouth and follow orders

Ashley, while it does sound very unlikely that a Marine is having his arms amputated because of rolled sleeves, I guess it is plausible. I would think that he would have had to of fallen asleep with them too tight, but who knows.

I’m a bit ticked off that this is going to be changed, in reply to sgt. grunt, you’re right train as you fight…that’s why we roll them down when we hit the field. I think it is stupid that they’re changing this, we had sleeves rolled since forever it is the image of a Marine…this is just ridiculous

There goes tradition along with uniformity and discipline that we had with the Tri colored Cammies back in the day. Is there any more Morale that the Politicians would like to crush & aside from our getting RAPED on our Tuition Assistance benefits… That is crap.. Last school term I earned 9 Credits in two months.. Now the Marines will only pay for 5 credits a year.. That is CRAP!!! I am so glad I’m getting out.. The Marines have changed and some people on the hill have lost their friggin mind and need to retire and not change what works for us… Maybe Marines would use more time for school if they weren’t getting deployed all the dam time… Why is it that every Commandant that comes in is basically on their way out and creating retarded policies that they don’t have to experience? Any type of policy change like that of sleeves and TA should be surveyed and voted on… Especially if it is only the Marines that are changing…

I agree that, even though the Marine Corps is not a democracy, that there should be some sort of general consensus conducted before changes like this. Following orders is all good, but you lose a lot of camaraderie when you make lasting changes on a group or organization without any input from those affected.

I haven’t even heard from anyone that knew about this in advance. It just hit fast.

Even though I like the change, I agree that the way it was rolled out (pun intended) was counterproductive… even though it is a seemingly petty policy change.

-You apparently need to go back to the depot to learn some manners and etiquette. Just because this is a forum about your Marine Corps and mine doesn’t mean you insult someone’s Marine son to their post. Goddamn heinous garbage!

I know this seems to be an insignificant, unnecessary change; however, food for thought:
- This puts everyone in a combat ready posture. You wouldn’t got out the wire otherwise.
- As a survivor of of malignant melanoma, this is protection pure and simple.
- With all the tattoos today, no see, no foul.
- With the jewelry issue, no see, no foul.
- Yes it does save time folding/rolling.
- Could care less about the Army.

Suggest everyone concentrate on the big items personally and with your families as this corrupt administration tries to salvage their budget deficit on the backs of fighting Marines. Get personal with your representative and senator and above all demand the opportunity to vote! You defenders of our freedoms deserve to vote.

The “tradition” of rolling our sleeves in hot weather is not that old. As times change, so do some “traditions.” When I was commissioned we were wearing woodland cammies (starched stiff) with ironed-on Marine Corps emblems and black leather combat boots (we also did not have subdued rank insignia for officers—even for combat!). When those were replaced with MARPAT and suede boots, many marines were up in arms over it (I, in particular, did not like the new boots because they retained water when submerged). However, I don’t think you would find a single marine who joined after 2002 who would rather wear “old” cammies and boots—mostly because they never even knew those “traditional” Marine Corps uniforms. In a similar way, I never complained that we did not wear “sateens” when I joined. Or that I was not issued a red and yellow USMC PT shirt. And as far as rolling sleeves goes, it most likely began around the 1970s during or immediately following operations in Southeast Asia, as I can’t find any older pictures or references to it. That’s really not an old “tradition” like, say, the quatrefoil on an officer’s garrison cover, or the Dress Blue “leatherneck” blouse.

Are there any marines complaining that we no longer wear “traditional” black leather boots that we polished daily?

Are there any marines complaining about the new Marine Corps Multi-Purpose Bayonet that replaced the “traditional” Ka-Bar?

Are there any marines complaining that we no longer wear “traditional” campaign covers into combat? Or even “traditional” high “choker” collared green blouses like we did in World War I?

Are there any marines complaining that we did away with our “traditional” combat leggings last worn in World War II? Marines used to be feared as “yellow legs” because of those things. Do our enemies no longer fear us because we no longer wear leggings?

In fact, not too long ago, the utility uniform (which is considered a combat or working uniform) was not worn in garrison at all. Marines wore the Service uniform every day. I personally think that would be best—our Service uniforms certainly set us apart from the other services. We even used to wear our Service uniform on leave and liberty. Then folks really knew who the marines were around town.

And what about the “tradition” of the “high-and-tight” haircut? This ridiculous “tradition” certainly was not the normal style until well after World War II.

So, instead of complaining about losing our “traditions” and whether or not we can roll up our sleeves on what is supposed to be a combat/field uniform, let’s petition the Commandant and his staff to revert to wearing the combat uniform as it was intended—only in combat (or in a field environment). Demand that we go back to wearing our Service uniforms in all garrison activities. Then we can have a uniform to be proud of, that requires discipline in wearing by our marines, and that sets us apart from our sister services.

One more comment in response to rolled cammie sleeves being an “image of the Marines”: If the utility uniform is not allowed to be worn off-base (because it is a combat/field/working uniform) then who sees this “image” except other marines? And the Somalis knew us as “white sleeves” because we had a “tradition” back then of wearing our sleeves rolled even when conducting combat operations. We are not feared as “white sleeves” in Iraq or Afghanistan. We are known simply as the Marines. And that’s enough usually to scare the hell out of our enemies. Our real “tradition” is that of Every Marine a Rifleman. We are known and respect for our conduct in combat. And that is enough.

So, in my opinion, rolling our sleeves is a fairly pointless—and clearly recent—phenomenon that we should all quickly forget with the new policy. Once again, let’s really look at how we want to present ourselves as a service and ask our leadership to make the right decision: Reinstitute the wearing of Service uniforms in the garrison environment.

As an ole retired Combat Marine, I’ll step out of the silent majority and tell you like it is. I’m embarrassed for the Corps by your wimppering, and gutless insults to the Commandant. You know what tradition is all about, you learned it in boot camp. Rolling up our sleeves inside out isn’t tradition and it sure didn’t make us look like more fierce warriors. Back in garrison, most of you Marines know how much of a pain it was to fit two gorilla arms into those rolled up sleeves. You might not remember back in the 80′s, thanks to MG Habel, he got rid of our white T Shirts with camies that made a nice target on your chest. White T Shirts with camies wern’t tradition either. This is a case of a Commandant accepting the Uniform Board’s recommendation to make a decision that he thought was best for the Corps and that real Marines would like. If you don’t like it, get out, join the National Guard. Semper Fi, Do or Die!

As an active duty MGySgt I’ll save my comments for the SgtMaj of the Marine Corps concerning the sleeve issue. But I like these sea lawers on here like Cajun Marine. I enlisted in 1983 and MajGen (not MG like you Army abbrivated) Habel did not change out white t shirts for green t shirts to wear with utilities, no, the Commandant did and that was Gen Al Gray. And before that it was optional under CMC Gen P.X. Kelly,

Gents, I would be more concerned about the %75 cut in TA that Kevin Webb mentioned. I remember when I was in during the 80s, education was frowned upon by the SNCOs because they were dumb as rocks and did not want the young Marines smarter than they were, and the officers did not care because they already had their degrees.
Here we to again!!!

This is what happens when there aren’t any more wars to fight. Garrison Marines like to look sharp for the public stateside and lose sight of what Marine Corps tradition really is. We’re warfighters. We win battles that no other conventional military unit can. Chesty Puller has a picture of himself with his hands in his pockets. John Basilone has one with his cover tipped back. These are all indicators of “Shitbag” status in today’s Corps.

This idea of “tradition” is merely what that single Marine has experienced. If you’ve been enlisted or commissioned for less than 30 years, that leaves over 200 years of Marine Corps history that you can only read about.

I am all for this change. The time it takes to: roll sleeves, inspect these sleeves, life a Marine for shitty sleeves, or rerolling sleeves because they actually are shitty sleeves> Could be spent on a pull up bar, reviewing course material, cleaning a barracks room that never seem to stay clean, sit ups, TOPO (That’s “fighting” for the super clean Garrison Marine) and about a thousand other things to better yourself.

Those rolled sleeves looked sharp when done correctly, there’s a reason for this change of uniform. Does this situation anger you? Suck it up and go train. We’re warriors not beauty queens.

Ok. So by reading this you all sound prety upset but take it this way. The Marine Corps is always changing with the times. The reason behind the change is for all Marines to be uniform at all times. In case you forgot we still have Marines serving in combat operations and those Marines are sleeves down year round. Regardless of the reason and the stupid crying about “tradition” the order came down and as Marines we follow orders. Period. Deal with that reality and keep your complaints to yourself and do not disrespect our Marine Corps leaders on public forums, it’s unprofessional.

To say any part of the reason is to conform to what the army does is the ultimate insult. We are a Dept of the Navy. The Navy has summer and winter uniforms. Roll them in the summer and don’t in the winter. Optional of course pending what ones duties are. SImple logic. I know we where not known for that though.

You boogerdicks don’t get it! I have pride for my uniform and take time in rolling sleeves just so I can say “we are the best” but I feel that the video game/sheltered generation has won with there laziness. Its unbelievable at some comments I’ve read. Let me break it down barny style. First you are issued deserts to deploy and with deployment YES! SLEEVES ARE DOWN because we are in a DESERT! Ie sun off sand burns. And its not like we don’t deblouse to cool down. So quit crying over it. When your state side desert sleeves are up because ITS PRESENTABLE AND PROFESSIONAL because we rate it. So those of you who cry about rolling sleeves, it just makes me wonder what else your going to cry about when you deploy and may God forbid you deploy with me. Man up or get the hell out of my Corps. Semper Fi Devil Dogs!

Your a dumbass retard, us as Marines DO RESPECT the Commandant. Everyone is just airing out their disagreement. You may like being a Marine but if your not all happy with the commander’s choices, your gonna critique their choices!

By the way, your a f*cking piece of sh*t talking like that to a fellow Marine’s mother. From what it sounds like your still wet begind the ears as being a Marine. And to your comparison to Rangers…. Please! You have no knowledge of them because I know some and they say they are almost comparable to Marines. Your comparing Rangers to a typical Marine, try comparing SpecOps with SpecOps then you can argue. And if your so high strung on Rangers WTF are you doing being a Marine?….. Loser

Honestly, I can see both sides of the issue. Yes, it can be kind of annoying if you have to go to the field and have to roll them down for whatever reason only to re-roll them a short time later. Yes, there are some serious REMFs who maybe have one skate, never-left-the-wire deployment under their belts and who validate themselves purely on how much time they spend screwing around with their uniforms and playing stupid games with anybody who could care less about something being a millimeter out of reg, even on just their daily-wear cammies, because they have nothing better to do and actually coming up with worthwhile training/work to do would mean leaving the comforts of their nice cozy office and *gasp* just maybe not eating at McDonald’s every day. Ooooh, what suffering.

However, it has never been okay to completely and utterly stop caring about how your uniform looks. That’s just unprofessional and equally lazy. Especially something as simple as rolling sleeves. Rolling sleeves that are at least passable is as easy (if a little bit more time-consuming) as tying your shoes once you do it a couple times and figure out how to arrange everything. If you hate going back and forth between sleeves up and sleeves down, keep another blouse ready to go. In my opinion there are a lot more annoying things that must be done (IPing, anyone?) with uniforms than rolling sleeves and rolled sleeves are an easy way to look good as long as you care in the slightest about how you roll them.

To start off shut up AGLICO why don’t you go calibrate some navel guns or something. Second to the Maj sir it is true that our combat uniforms have changed over the years, but the changes have been for utilitarian needs. Now sleeves up or down is a purely fashion issue and I for one thinks it looks better up. Do I care if we go sleeves down all year no but, I prefer the look of sleeves up.

I continue to be amazed by the levels of disrespect emitting from this issue.

At the end of the day, we all have our opinions regarding the Marine Corps and its policies, but what I am seeing here is beyond hypocritical.

In one sentence a lot of you are arguing that this change goes against our tradition, and then in the next sentence you’re blatantly disrespecting our Marine Corps and its leaders.

How in the world do any of your actually type what you’re typing and think that it is in any way professional? 75% of the comments on this page go against our very ethos, and if rolling sleeves is what defines you as a Marine, or all of us as a branch, then we have lost our way.

The military will always enforce things that we think are stupid, and it is okay for us to harshly disagree, but the second that we have lost our professionalism by the way we respond to disliked policy… then we have all lost.

This is a brotherhood. You should treat it as such. Our Commandant is just like our president in regards to how they should be respected. They will often do things that you hate or don’t understand, but it is our duty to stand behind them.

I cannot stand our current president, and I have spoken harshly about him, but please try to find the line where it becomes blatant disrespect versus a difference in opinion.

This is a public forum where retired Marines, poolees and potential Marines visit frequently, and they are looking to all of us as the example. You attitude will impact the way they see the Marine Corps.

Secondly, this change hasn’t even been implemented yet so how can you even complain; wait and see what it is like before b*tching.

Sleeves and haircuts are not ways of telling whether a Marine is a shitbag, some of the biggest shitbags I know have high and tights with high and tight sleeves, but can only do 6 pullups and are 10 lbs over weight. However, their false sense of motivation lets them think that if their uniform looks like a good Marine then they must be.

I have numerous friends in Recon who roll their sleeves like Stevie Wonder would and get a haircut once a month, who are great Marines.

Also, wouldn’t it make sense that after the Commandant allowed KIA bracelets this order came out? He wants the Marines to be uniform and look the same, so this sounds like a compromise with senior leaders regarding the KIA bracelets in uniform fiasco.

I agree with the sleeves being an image of a Marine, so use that in your agruement or to make your point. Not to go bashing Marines in a steriotype that obviously if he has blood circulation in his arms then he is a shitbag for not having tight sleeves.

I believe that the focus of concern should be on the new TA restrictions. The sleeves issue doesn’t effect the long term issue that I think the TA reduction will. The Corps has struggled to develop an educated Enlisted corps and when we’ve finally started reaching the masses, we basically get rid of the whole program. It’s insulting to me as an Enlisted Marine that we have abandoned the notion that Enlisted Marines don’t want to be educated. The new MARADMIN gives a statistic that an “Average” TA user only uses it 4-5 semester hours a year. So now being “Average” is what we need to strive for?

My feelings are similar to Maj DLP. Marines, we follow orders. That’s what we do. Since day one of Recruit Training. Sure, I can’t say I agree with the reasoning behind it. But, as a SNCO I do not make policy, I enforce it. The only thing a Marine had left to do something with his uniform was to roll sleeves. When I first came in, you had to press them, shine your boots and make all the eyelets black again and apply edge dressing. You usually did this right after you got off work so you would be GTG for next morning’s formation. Don’t get drawn into the disrespect for your superiors. That truly dishonors those who have gone before us. Honor them the Marine Corps way by “following Orders and Directions as may given from time to time by superiors acting according to the Uniformed Code of Military Justice” Yes, read your promotion warrant, render obediance. Now that is a Marine Corps tradition.

I thought I had enough when I had to get rid of my flattop a few years back because it looked too much like the forbidden ‘horseshoe” (and because my CO was one of those bitter guys who couldn’t grow one any longer) and now this bit of lost tradition!! What next? I don’t want to give anyone any ideas so I will not bother to speculate.

…I served as 0311 1968-70… including 7 months in RVN… I think that this is a mistake… Worse… I had hoped that the new Commandant would come in like Al Gray did… Gray snapped the Corps out of the doldrums… He hit the ground running… Effective immediately one half of all field training would be at night… Effective immediately the Marine Corps would go back to “Every Marine a rifleman…” and effective immediately *all* Marines regardless of MOS would go back to all of them getting some amount of infantry training. Required and suggested reading lists for officers and men. Gray was the only Commandant to have his official photo taken in his combat uniform…
…
…I wish the current Commandant well…but… The Marine Corps is facing cutbacks of men and equipment… Politicos will try to damage the Corps’ ability to perform its mission… The Commandant has to step up and inspire confidence… It is early yet… but so far his early edicts (bracelets and sleeves) are not Al Gray stirring call to action… Early impressions can be wrong… but so far… like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic…

Well this sucks… If it’s worked this long there is no need to change it now! I think it is a shame but I WILL NOT disrespect the Commandant or any other Marines. Marines don’t need to roll their sleeves to distinguish themselves. Marines distinguish themselves by their Discipline, their Honor and their Courage.

Unreal Marines…. It seems that some lazy individuals, that choose “not” to take their time to carry on a tradition which is much older then our Commandant, have made a decision that is unacceptable. One important reason I will always roll my sleeves is to distinguish myself from the regular soldier. I remember a young man once say to me “I new we had trouble when I saw the white sleeves”, because it means your Marines. Sempre Fi

I just want to thank you Sir for having the best argument on this forum and for changing my view on this whole sleeve issue. Initially I was mad about it and rather disappointed in our Corps for this rash decision. If discipline, tradition, and appearance truly are the reasons as to why I am upset (which they are) then the rolling of sleeves isn’t the issue. I agree Sir, if these are in fact the three underlining issues, then we should go back to wearing our service uniforms in garrison. Even though I still very much like to wear sleeves up and prefer the look over the newly implemented sleeves down policy, I realize that this is just a moment in time, or an Era if you will, that will date the Marine for what time in which he/she served. This new policy doesn’t change the Marine or the Marine Corps for that matter. Marines are known for their heroism and brutal force in battle, as well as their clean appearance and chivalry in garrison.

With that said, I think many Marines responded poorly to this forum. Many Marines lost their minds and lost control of their tongues. I know we were trained and taught to be better than that. Where is the Honor is chewing out a Marine Mother? and wheres the Honor is speaking poorly against our Commandant? We may not be happy with the order, but “Improvise, Adapt, and Overcome” have always been a REAL tradition in our Corps, Tact has always been a REAL tradition in our Corps, Integrity has always been a REAL tradition in our Corps and Discipline has always been a REAL tradition in our Corps. If we’re so upset about losing this so called “tradition,” why don’t we get upset about the REAL traditions we’re losing? Saddest part about all of this is, “Change,” and “New Oders” aren’t the cause of our loss of tradition; the cause, Marines, is Arrogance and Laziness. I’m not saying that all are lazy and that the way we fight is lazy. What I mean is, these issues need to be dealt with in garrison. We’re so upset, myself included, over the change in appearance that we fail to recognize the change in our attitudes. Its fine if you don’t agree with me, just don’t continue to soil the name of OUR Corps by unleashing your mouth. When in a verbal debate in the civilian side, uphold yourself professionally by using tact, yet still effectively deliver your point with precise word use; but when in country, Give ‘em Hell. The Corps policies might be changing, but the only thing that can preserve or destroy the Image of what it means to be a United States Marine is you, The Marine.

This is retarded. The Commadant didn’t explain his decision, but I never thought an AIRWINGER would lead the Corps efficiently anyways. This guy sucks. He needs to go and be replaced with someone who cares about Marine traditions and education. This guy is a tool.

All of you POG ass clowns crying about discipline and tradition are just butthurt. Now you have one less reason to wag your big ego around and ‘correct’ people. Get over it if you’re so semper yut you would be supporting your commandant instead of insulting him. Go starch your cammies you hypocritical mongoloids.

Warriors from the sea,
The “tradition” of rolling sleeves, isn’t a tradition. Terminal Lance has a point. SHUT THE F@CK UP and follow your damn orders. All that is required is an “aye sir”, and get back to work. I miss starching my cammies, and taking care of my boots, but the bottom line is the bigger tradition for Marines is following orders. INSTANT obediance to orders. Maybe you need to learn the reasons behind close order drill again.

I would like to inform my fellow Marines that anyone who believes that any policy coming from HQMC or any other HQ, is not in the best interest of the Marine, Troops, or Officers. Many will argue that uniformity is the priority, but the reality is that when you are at the bottom of the food chain in civilian life or chain of command for service members the needs and wants you have are secondary to the pettiness and incompetence of its leaders. I do not state that the Commandant is at fault or the policy is flawed. What my point is that NO ONE CARES and when a policy goes very wrong the finger pointing is directed at a scape goat. I believe that leadership stems from those who stand up and say this is my decision and I stand by it, but I believe there is always someone who’s inside easy recliner job relies on their policy making ability i.e.; able to write a BS memo.

A Marine can pick out another Marine in a crowd, but can a civilian distinguish a Marine from another service member? ….hell no. I knew this was going to be shit, when there was no tattoo change policy with Gen. Amos. Anticipate more BS changes and more d-briefs. Don’t like this, but wth I guess its time to get a tattoo.

I agree with your last comments about the what everyone is writing, but do not put General Amos in the same sentence with President Obama. That is Blasphemy, at least General Amos is an American and is proud of his country and not trying to trash America. This order I am sure comes from all those whining Liberal Democrats, so get used to it Marines! Until we change our own domestic Terrorist, Obama bin Lying out of the White House, I am sure there is more to come.

This is TOTAL BULLSh*t!!! If you are concerned with the amount of time it takes to roll your sleeves, reenlist into the army. In my opinion, sleeves rolled up is sharp as hell and it is part of what makes a Marine a Marine. Some of you say that in combat, sleeves are down, but that is in combat. when you are in the rear, sleeves should be up!! Now there is nothing to tell a sh*tbag apart from a Marine who has got his sh*t together. While there are MANY things that set us Marines apart from the other branches, attention to detail is certainly one of them. If you paid any attention at all to your DIs, you would have no problem rolling and maintaining a proper sleeve. It is not f*cking rocket science, just having a little pride in your uniform and in the Marine Corps!!

I agree with no sleeves rolled up. The reason being that not all rolls are uniform. I have asked on duty Marines about the reg. on the size of roll and there is not a reg. on that. There is a reg. on the size of roll on the bunk so why not on the sleeves? I believe to please all (not usually done in the Marine Corps) there could be a short sleeve shirt made to uniform shape / size. But still should be a uniform of the day / place. Different temp / climates call for different wearing of the same uniform. To fell you are and individual while in the Marine Corps is just not done.

I think it’s humorous that so many Marines are angry over this decision. What’s the big deal?! Are we really defined by our sleeves and other similar small things? Look closely at the old Marine Corps pictures. As you study the old pictures, you see how little the Marine Corps was focused on such trivial details like this. Notice the haircuts in those pictures. You don’t see too many high-and-tights or tightly rolled sleeves. These are just two small examples; there are endless more. It seems that in the days of our grandparents’ Corps they were more focused on the mission of fighting and winning wars, not so much on garrison issues that Marines now focus so heavily on now. In fact, many of these issues are things that really are not true issues when you read the orders… just individuals’ interpretaion of orders.

Furthermore, I find it interesting that the “hardest” Marines generally are not the ones with high-and-tight hair and high-and-tight sleeves. There are too many Marines who hide behind this modern picture-book-Marine image, that happens to be a farse, because they really can’t hang with the true “hard-chargers” who don’t give a crap about rediculous minute details, but instead care more about simply being really good at what they do… tactical and technical proficiency comes to mind.

I think the new sleeve policy will be good for the Marine Corps… stripping away another facade that weaklings can hide behind to take Marines closer to the heart of the warrior ethos: fighting and winning wars. Semper Fi, brothers.

It sounds like the reason for this change is to cover up those KIA braclets, and the corp didnt want to disapprove of Marine wearing KIA braclets but didnt like the idea of them so they said well you can wear them but sleeves down so we dont see it. ALSO that should have an affect of the Tattoo policy since the arm will no longer be visible, i kno the order says visible in PT gear but the reason for the sleeve tattoo policy was for DI’s and recruiters

I am by no means comparing Obama to General Amos. I was simply making the analogy that even though I very much dislike this current administration, it does not taint my view or my feelings towards the country they work for. I am an American and I am a Marine. Neither President Obama, or General Amos will change how I feel about this.

As a Father of a proud Marine, I am deeply disappointed with the new sleeve down rule. The Marine has a unique look and wears the uniform better than any other. This has been a tradition for many years and it would be a shame that this rule was put in place due to pressure from an outside source. Terrible rule!!

2 policy changes on uniforms…. One of them changing the way we have always rolled sleeves by keeping them down all year…. One of them allowing the use of KIA bracelets which were popular but unauthorized…. I think one change has absolutely everything to do with the other change… with sleeves down you cant see a a watch let alone a bracelet in uniform… but the commandant wasnt going to tell Marines they cant honor their fallen brothers..instead change one of the many things that set us apart from all the other services… lame… totally lame!

I think it’s silly but it doesn’t surprise me. The Marine Corps has changed a lot in the last 20 years and most of the changes aren’t for the best. Rolled sleeves looked sharp; sleeves down looks like Joe Shit the Ragman. Just my 2¢ as a former 0331/8156….

@MasterGuns0291 – P.X. Kelley didn’t make green t-shirts optional with cammies nor did Al Gray make them standard wear. Green t-shirts were SOP from the time I enlisted in 1985. P.X. Kelley did make white v-neck t-shirts optional with Green Charlies & Blue Deltas, which was later rescinded by Al Gray.

If it has something to do with a braclet, then there is usualy two options (1) Take off the braclet and whear it while not in uniform. (2) Give up the sleeve roll so you can wear the braclet anytime with the uniform on, I’m sure soon after all this they will have too many Marines who are rightfuly upset and both sides will come to some agrement and decide rather or not to let them just wear it on them in uniform and still keep the sleeves, I mean come on it’s just a braclet and rolled up sleeves there is No REAL harm in any of them.

One of the reasons I wanted to join the Marine Corps was because of the distinguishable pride that Marines carried on. Marines have always been set apart in the sense of who we are and what we do for our country. I think that shows in a lot of things and dangit, rolling our sleeves was one of them. This saddens me. Oorah.

I truly agree with Major Teague de La Plaine. When I first read the news of Marines no longer rolling their sleeves, as a prior 0844 I was deeply saddened. It’s been known that Marine Corps standards have been ‘dropping’ or changing a lot more often over the recent years. I myself never believed my NCO’s when they informed me upon me hitting the fleet in early 2006.

Where I do believe that Marines are extremely sharp sporting their tightly rolled distinguishing sleeves; I believe that Major Teague de La Plaine has a point. Wearing our service uniforms as we had many years ago would accomplish the same task as sharply rolled MARPAT uniforms.

Personally, I’m a huge fan of tradition and structure (shocking, I know). If you look at the examples of ‘small change’ –Field day was ordered to become “general clean-up”. The same week, barracks became empty from then-on out, rooms were never cleaned, and individuals became filthy. What about the removal of ‘hazing’? Marine leadership are now kept under strict guidelines of how to discipline a Marine, restricting ways of correcting them. What about tattoo policies? -I’ll admit, I ran out and had four in one afternoon when I heard of this being passed. All of these are ‘small’ changes however, if you were to tell an old timer today of what’s changed in the Marine Corps, ‘We’ve taken away hazing, room inspections, tattoos visible within standard PT gear (as you know it, because we’ve all been issued wind-breakers now), and sleeve rolling.’ a bakers dozen of his friends would roll over in their grave. Don’t believe me? Bring it up to a VFW bar in your home town.

In the mean time Marines, through-out all the budget cutting your left wing partners have served you with, you need to do what Marines do best; fight on and continue to represent your country. Where the service uniform requires significantly more maintenance than your MARPAT, if you truly want tradition this is your way to have it. In fact, I challenge any Marine to show up to their shop while in garrison wearing Service Charlies (permitting this will not effect his role in the rear) and see what your leadership says. From working within Battery’s to Regiment, I’ve noticed majority of leadership will give you praise rather then reprimand for not wearing your uniform of the day in this exception.

WOW! WTF OVER! why dont we just start calling our SNCO’s Sarge?!? and start calling eachother soldier while were at it. this needs to be changed and tattoos need to be brought back Marines are tough now were just Effin’ ken dolls in a uniform….why dont we just merge the army into the Corps while your at it! F*CK this

I dont understand whats happening to the Corps. I have only been in for a year and a half and have seen just since I came in how downhill this Corps is going. This is not the Corps my grandfather (an Army Vet.) described. My grandfather was jealous of how great the Marine Corps was and told me himself if he could do it again he would have been a Marine. Taking our traditions one by one until we lose all the respect we use to hold from the citizens of our country. Way to go, our leaders are so inspiring…

In garrison we should still be wearing the old olive green OG107 sateen uniforms starched and pressed with spit shined boots. In the field and combat wear the uniform that gives us the best tactical advantage.

First we had nametags shoved down our throats, my nametag was the Eagle Globe & Anchor. Then they went to some crucible shit in bootcamp to “make Marines” and after you get done with that you are a Marine, Bullshit you are a Marine when you graduate boot camp not before, Thank you lucky Chucky for screwing that up. Then we gave up our web belt and switched over to some martial arts belt which was totally retarded. Why replace the LINE training (which was excellent) with the MCMAP which will get you sent home in a box or at the very least get your ass handed to you. I have an idea why don’t we just wear every badge in existance then invent a few more and give away medals for showing up like the army does. Then we can wear those on our cammies with our martial arts belt and add a beret so we can feel better about ourselves. We are Marines if that doesn’t make you feel good about yourself you need to get out. Then we get the digital no iron cammies and suede boots, which is fine for combat and field use (although I would prefer actual leather jungle boots.) Then no rolling of sleeves, again fine for field and combat but in garrison sleeves should be rolled up on april 15 and down on oct 15. Whats next they going to let peter puffers serve in the Marine Corps, oh wait they did that too.

My great grandfather was a Marine, he fought in Belleau Wood, My grandfather was a Marine fought on Guadalcanal with Chesty Puller, and fought with him again in the frozen Chosin resevoir in Korea, My dad was a Marine fought 3 tours in Vietnam, I wanted to be a Maine since I was 4 years old. I joined the Marine Corps at 17, there is nothing else I would have rather done. I served a tour during the initial invasion of Afghanistan where I was wounded in action, I returned to duty and served in the initial invasion of Iraq, I was forced to retire in 2005 after being wounded in action again on my second tour in Iraq. I tried to get my nephew to join the Marine Corps when he turned 17 and wasn’t going to graduate high school in 2008, but now they require an associates degree to join the Marine Corps WTF. Hell I dropped out of high school and joined the Corps to keep from going to jail for underage drinking and getting into a fight in. No wonder the Marine Corps is so fucked up, they have overeducated recruits with no fight in them, might as well turn the Marine Corps into a college fraternity. For the first time in my life I can honestly say Thank God I am no longer in the Marine Corps because it has completely gone to shit, might as well disband it and incorporate it into the army.

I remember a time when polished boots, clean pressed cammies with creases, and tightly rolled sleeves showed how squared away a Marine is when in garrison. When taking the time to square yourself away was not a hassle but a sense of pride.

Nothing says discipline like a Marine just coming off the field will enter a chow hall without pulling out his boot polish gear, buff it to a high shine and roll up tight sleeves.

Gone are those days. The good old days. I am officially Old Corps and proud of it.