We're in Census and Games. And this thread is not a poll. Nor is it a game. It's not even a social thread! *gasp* The shock! The horror! The audacity of DarthIntegral to post this!

Anyways, when you're past that ...

Okay, I'll wait a minute

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Good, now?

Alright, let's talk about something: Draft games. As noted in this week's MSU, we've been discussing Draft Games policy in MS recently, prompted by my own thoughts, and the thoughts of one Shadow_of_Durron. We've decided it would be best to allow input from everyone who loves these Draft Games: from the hardcore players, to the passer-bye players, to the lurkers, and everyone in between. So, here's where we stand. Let's start with a review of the current draft-type games.

That's seven drafts. And, with the exception of the SW-related drafts, they basically draw from the exact same pool of users to play and run them. And even then, there's a good bit of crossover to the SW ones. I'm currently involved in 5 of them (playing CBD and Animated, Commish/judging Jedi, Movie, and Video game). I think we're seeing the players getting stretched too thin. We all love the draft games, and we want to play in all of them, but then we can't really devote full effort into them. We're seeing a high number of players drop (without announcing they are) from some games, and others that just do the minimum.

So I think it's time to rethink how we're handling the drafts.

The first thing I think we should do is move all non-SW drafts to Census and Games. That really only effects the Video Game draft, but this particular draft has suffered quite a bit. The current incarnation is in it's seventh month of existence. Part of that is that players forget to check it, because it's not with the other drafts they play. I also wouldn't worry too much when moving it because the Games "regulars" don't seem too interested in it. But the draft has a lot of potential and I'd hate to see it wasted.

The second thing I would do is put the draft games in C&G on some sort of rotation. Maybe limit it to three drafts at a time. When a draft ends, it would go to the bottom of the waiting list, and the first draft on top would be started. This would be done for two reasons: One, to make each draft more of an "event", give it more of a special feel, and make people "hungry" as they wait for a particular draft to start. Second, it would keep the hardcore players who love all drafts from being stretched too thin, and theoretically keep the drafts more involved and more interesting.

So, how this would look right now:

Video Game Draft just entered the championship game, so it should be the next to end. It would close for a small bit. Following that, I imagine the Comic Book Draft will end, since we're one judgment from the Championship there. It would go in line after the Video Game Draft (unless it finishes first ... could be a race to the finish). Following that, I imagine the Movie/TV Draft finishes next (couple of matches from playoffs). It would end, and leave only two active drafts alive (Mythology and Animated). So, the next draft in line (Video Games) would start. Then, when Mythology ends, we'd start the Comic Book Draft. And so on and so forth.

Alright ... so that's what I had to say. I'd love to hear thoughts from anyone with Draft experience, even those who have never played but remember the days of sign-ups done in 20 minutes, and excitement buzzing through the air for every draft.

Interesting idea there Inty/Durron/Whoever. I agree with it, for the sake of keeping the drafts fresh and new, but my fear there is the same thing that happens in drafts now: People dropping for lack of interest.

Notice my use of 'people' not GMs, because personally I think that it is a lack of judging that holds drafts up more so than the GMs. Look at Games (yes I know I am a Judge and I admit it), that is going so long because judgments take a while to get out, Granted it is also because we, the judges, want something more than '______ FTW!' as an argument from the GMs.

Now let's take a look at the Mythology draft. Great draft idea, I like the new set up. The unique style that that draft uses has added a new dimension to the old style, I like it a lot. But the judges are the problem, once again. We have been on the third match of round one since 9/5, literally. We have been waiting on judgments from any of the three judges that long, literally. Now I could see taking that long, maybe possibly, for some really really hard close call matches but the thing is none of these are hard. Not to mention we haven't seen the judges (aside form Tyi) in a couple days. Finally Tyi stepped up and posted some today, so kudos to you Tyi. You are a real man.

Yet another example is the Animated Draft. Currently NO ONE knows what happened to EF (the original Commissioner of Drafts I/II), unless I be mistaken? No one as seen him for over, what is it now? -- two weeks. His last post was made the 8/26 and last login was made the first of this month. We have had one GM drop out yes, I think, but plans are being made to fix that. The point it that his absence has caused disruption in most of the drafts, if not all of them. He is/was GMing in Video Games (it is almost over like Inty said). He is/was in Comics (again like Inty said). He is Commissioner of Animated, and has had to be replaced. He is a judge in Movies/TV and again, replaced. And the Jedi draft, I'm not really sure what is going on there, the only thing I do know is that I am banned because of it. Which leads me to my next point. I vote we reinstate Game bans for Drafts. Yeah, that's right. Or will that 'scare' people off?

I don't see how moving the Video Games Draft in here would fix much, if anything. I mean how hard is it to set the Games forum to your favorite boards list and check it every time you see a "!" in the new post column? That's what I do with every forum I spend more than 5 posts a year in. Now granted, I am a Games Regular so it is different for me, but come on. It isn't hard at all, that shouldn't be an excuse. That being said, I am a regular in games, I am accepted in their groups and FORCEBOAT and I do appreciate that draft. I was in the very first one, that kinda fell apart, then came back together at the end. I am indifferent for the most part but if it comes down to a vote on moving it here, I say: Nay.

Interesting notion on the rotating of drafts. I'd say that was a good idea if ALL drafts were on a good schedule. As it is, though, there would be those experimental drafts, or drafts where there are judge problems, that really hold up the rest of the drafts that do go by with some semblance of consistency.

However, it does allow for A. more discussion between drafts, like you could make a Draft Discussion thread for each/combined draft and allow that to be where revisions for the next draft, new judges are assigned, new commishes are decided and so forth. Also, it would allow planning stages to get off the ground for any "special versions" of some drafts people may be wanting to do.

My worry is I just don't want to see this rotation thing screw up the drafts. Who's to say that the problems that are plaguing our drafts now would go away if we do go with the scheduled rotations? I agree that it would keep things so fresh and so clean clean but I can see problems already. What happens when we put the Animated draft at the top of the list, it starts and goes on for a little but people lose interest and it gets slowed down again? Then the draft that is at the end of the list won't be seen for months and months. I like the idea of having as many going on at a time as there can be but I also like the rotation so things don't get old. So I propose a different solution.

I think that we should have a written schedule, spreading the drafts out, but not having to wait until the end of one to start the next in line. Instead couldn't we have an actual date as to when we would start them? We could spread them out so they over lap but never in the same stage for too long. So when one is just starting sign-ups one is starting matches, while yet another is ending. Then you can cycle a new one back into the mix, and that combines two ideas in my mind. If we stagger them by a month or so and announce the dates to people, they will know when to show up for their drafts. That way people don't miss the start of them, because we all know that every draft we see five or six people come in weeks after sing-ups have been filled asking if they can join. I think I saw someone last week asking in the Jedi draft if it was 'too late to sign-up' and they are already in semi-finals IIRC.

I think this is a great idea, both in grouping together all the Drafts (save the Jedi in SWC and SFD in EUC, of course) and sustaining them through a rotation. I also think Flame_Retardant brings up some good points in noting that should the Drafts still be slowed down, there'd be an even more negative effect on others in that they'd be stalled in getting started themselves. Perhaps a schedule to start the drafts in a staggered format, or a time limit on Drafts (not for them to finish, but in order to allow others to start-- say, if a Draft hasn't ended 6 months or something after it started, the next Draft on the list begins regardless of where the first one is in terms of progress) could help. Regardless of how it ends up technically, though, I definitely think it addresses the problem of "spreading GMs thin," as well as provides the convenience of having all the threads in one identifiable place.

Yeah but at least its been moving along. And the last draft was pretty good- In the top four we had an old republic squad, an imp squad, a squad of umm, irregulars, and one Rogue squad type group. It was interesting, I thought.

I mean, I thought there were some interesting discussions- Han v. Fel, for example.

All I'll say at present is that I would never be in favour of limiting the number of drafts per person except in special cases. Never as a rule. That's a decision for each person to make, not for anybody to enforce.

I'm not really a fan of moving the VG draft here either. It just makes sense to me that it's about video games, so it goes in the VG forum. I wouldn't even care if the CB draft went to SFF:BC either. And it helps get people passionate about those subjects into the forum for discussing them.

If it stays in Videogames, would you still be in favor of it being a part of the "Non-SW Draft Rotation", or would you rather see that applied only to C&G Drafts?

To the above, I would also disagree with limiting the number of drafts a person can be in at once. Take me, for instance. I'm involved in five drafts right now: playing two, commish/judging three. How many would I need to walk away from? Which one(s) am I doing a bad job in (besides Animated )?

I'd like to second (third?) the not-limiting people thing. Some people can maage, like Inty. Some (like me) have trouble with two Anyway, the idea with the rotation is that it wouldn't be an issue since they all wouldn't be going on at once. And Chim, your idea is really good

I'd rather leave the Comic Book Draft in C&G rather than move it to SFFBC for now; it won't get much/any traffic in there.

Movie/TV Draft (Currently going on)
Animated Character Draft (Currently going on)
Mythology Draft (Currently going on)
Comic Book Draft (May be restarted in C&G when two more drafts finish or on January 19th)
Video Game Draft (May be restarted in Videogames when two more drafts finish or on January 22nd)

Then, when the Movie/TV draft ends, the next commish of the Comic Book Draft would have the green light to start their draft. If that draft doesn't end until after January 19th, the Comic Book Draft can start then anyways.

Personally I think some drafts are favored more than others. The comic book draft for example fills up faster then the Animated and Movie one. It's also the one that has the most material that allows judges to move pretty fast unless they are waiting for a GM to argue. It might be good to either stagger the drafts start time or rotate 2 and keep one as a permanent spot and have the other two rotate with 1 older draft like animated or movies and 1 of the experimental or not as popular.

minch, I see your point. I really do. I just think that it will benefit the Comic Book Draft more to know there are only 16 spots for it, and if I miss sign-ups, I'm going to have to wait not only until the draft ends, but until it's back on the rotation. Possibly four months after the draft ends. It will create more of an event to the draft, rather than just "ok, let's do the next one" type of thing. It will create buzz and excitement, thoughts of "it's almost time for the Comic Book Draft to return, I can't wait".

Although, if the simple rotation doesn't work out, I'd love to give the model you proposed a chance. But I'd rather see if a strict rotation works first.