It depends on where the strut bodies locate the sway bar mount. One feature I like about the ASTs is that the sway bar mount is adjustable so you can use OEM links.

Interesting. I was planning on going to TCK S/A and am debating having custom rear end links made, purchasing adjustable fronts, and having those installed as well. Will be a hefty $$ tacked onto my setup but, I don't want to leave something out that needs to be done...

You seem to know your stuff. I read your responses in a sway bar thread. After reading all the info I realized sways just aren't needed if you're going to run 400lb + springs and are still daily-ing your car. Maybe in the future, but I just don't find it necessary, at all. Not even ideal

I also think the rear toe links are a waste unless you can't get the rear toe within spec for some reason. I had the same Dinan links installed and I'm back on OEM rear links.

okay great I appreciate your feeback tremendously!

My only concern is still the rear sway bar end links. They should probably be switched out along with the fronts when lowering on a setup that will see track time. Maybe if people are getting away with it or have lowered with coils give some input?

Just so you know our take on the situation......We have never put adjustable end links on any of our track cars(specifically our E90 M3 track car).

If your car is set to the appropriate ride height (equal on the left and right side) there is no need for adjustable end links. The only time you will put 'pre-load' on the sway bar is when the left and right ride heights are not set equal (and there is no reason they should be unequal).

Just so you know our take on the situation......We have never put adjustable end links on any of our track cars(specifically our E90 M3 track car).

If your car is set to the appropriate ride height (equal on the left and right side) there is no need for adjustable end links. The only time you will put 'pre-load' on the sway bar is when the left and right ride heights are not set equal (and there is no reason they should be unequal).

Hope that helps.

So if you corner balance your car one should consider adjustable end links?

Originally was saving up to get an AST setup however very tempted to get this kit since I can get a very good deal on one.

Will this hold up to monthly track days? Using a 400lb/ 600lb spring rate?

Doing a search I find that people say the AST is more track oriented where as the TCK is more dual use oriented.

I had AST 4100's on a MK6 GTI. It was corner balanced and setup by West End Alignment and was tracked monthly. On the track the car had tons of grip, was never upset by quick transitions, was never upset by the berms in the corners, and together with front and rear sway bars, bushings all around made for a very balanced track car.

On the street, the AST's where very very comfortable. In fact when I put my factory suspension back in after parting out the GTI... The ride between the AST ride was actually much more comfortable than the oe ride. Feedback from the person that I sold the kit to also said that it road better than his factory R20 suspension and had tons more grip.

So with that said... I have a very good deal I can get on the TCK S/A coilovers with camber plates... Coming from an AST setup... Am I gonna be disappointed?

Imho... You don't need adjustable end links to corner balance unless you are sitting so low that it is pre loading the sway bar...

I don't think the optimum heights for the track is low enough to pre load the sway bars so you should be fine. But this is just my opinion as I dont have much M3 experience to really know... My previous car was cornerbalanced and setup at the optimum ride height for the track and there was no pre loading.

I don't see you changing the front to rear or side to side rake significantly unless you've gutted the car out.

Your corner heights should be in a similar ratio to OEM. Again, not sure if you NEED adjustable sway bar links. If TC Kline says no...then its probably no.

The OE E9X M3 links are much beefier than the E46 links. Most of the reasoning to upgrade to adjustable links on the E46 was to swap in a stronger part, not an adjustable part (i.e. shorter end link).

Okay. Well I really don't know what to do then. Spend X amt. of dollars on links and installing them and corner balance, or just drop the car on coils how I want it to look with as close to OEM rake as possible and be done with it. Sigh, JUST trying to do it right and my knowledge on suspension geometry is too low to grasp exactly why this is or isn't an issue.

So if you corner balance your car one should consider adjustable end links?

BMW's are so well corner balanced from the factory, that I would be surprised if you even need to corner balance the car once ride heights are set correctly. Once you set the ride height correctly, you will be 85-90% corner balanced already. We hardly ever corner balance our racecars because of this reason. If you corner balance the car and the ride height is unequal from left to ride, then you will need adjustable end links. But, unless you are adjusting a serious race car, I would not worry about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PandaM3

Originally was saving up to get an AST setup however very tempted to get this kit since I can get a very good deal on one.

Will this hold up to monthly track days? Using a 400lb/ 600lb spring rate?

Doing a search I find that people say the AST is more track oriented where as the TCK is more dual use oriented.

I had AST 4100's on a MK6 GTI. It was corner balanced and setup by West End Alignment and was tracked monthly. On the track the car had tons of grip, was never upset by quick transitions, was never upset by the berms in the corners, and together with front and rear sway bars, bushings all around made for a very balanced track car.

On the street, the AST's where very very comfortable. In fact when I put my factory suspension back in after parting out the GTI... The ride between the AST ride was actually much more comfortable than the oe ride. Feedback from the person that I sold the kit to also said that it road better than his factory R20 suspension and had tons more grip.

So with that said... I have a very good deal I can get on the TCK S/A coilovers with camber plates... Coming from an AST setup... Am I gonna be disappointed?

I would jump ALL OVER the TCK's if you have the chance. TC Kline Racing is VERY track oriented and many club racers use this suspension for their track cars....and WIN! - consistently!

The description you have above is exactly what I would say about a TC Kline Racing suspension.

BMW's are so well corner balanced from the factory, that I would be surprised if you even need to corner balance the car once ride heights are set correctly. Once you set the ride height correctly, you will be 85-90% corner balanced already. We hardly ever corner balance our racecars because of this reason. If you corner balance the car and the ride height is unequal from left to ride, then you will need adjustable end links. But, unless you are adjusting a serious race car, I would not worry about it.

Okay Good to know! Thank you very much. Ideally, what is a "good" street/track height setup for someone who does want a nice look.

Okay Good to know! Thank you very much. Ideally, what is a "good" street/track height setup for someone who does want a nice look.

Too bad you're not in Socal... The alignment guy I go to "West End Alignment" will do a pre interview with you to get an idea of what kind of driver are you? Your track experience, what you intend for the car... Looks, performance, track use, canyon use, commuter... Then he adjusts the height, alignment, and cornerbalances all manually based on that interview.

He is typically booked 3 weeks in advance, and the session typically takes 3-4 hours... Majority of local track people go there.

Too bad you're not in Socal... The alignment guy I go to "West End Alignment" will do a pre interview with you to get an idea of what kind of driver are you? Your track experience, what you intend for the car... Looks, performance, track use, canyon use, commuter... Then he adjusts the height, alignment, and cornerbalances all manually based on that interview.

He is typically booked 3 weeks in advance, and the session typically takes 3-4 hours... Majority of local track people go there.

Too bad you don't have anyone like that in Florida

most in south florida try to provide "par" service at the highest rate acceptable. Anytime i go pay more for a service, its the same or worse than standard job. Got me lost down here. Ive only found a couple places but really need to start looking for a shop who will do a good alignment like you speak of

most in south florida try to provide "par" service at the highest rate acceptable. Anytime i go pay more for a service, its the same or worse than standard job. Got me lost down here. Ive only found a couple places but really need to start looking for a shop who will do a good alignment like you speak of

Does the TCKLINE S/A come with Thrust sheets? Or do you have to purchase all of that separately? What is the benefit of those?

It does not come with the thrust sheets, but if you are driving the car on the street, I would put them on. I have them on my E36 M3. The thrust sheets mainly help at low parking lot speeds. Once about 25-30mph, the thrust sheets aren't needed as much.

Wise decision if you ask me. I think TC Kline has been the best kept secret in BMW suspensions and the word is now getting out. The TCKs are very comfortable as long as you match the damper settings to the spring rates. I love the doubles on my E46, there's no doubt that I will be putting the doubles on my E90.

In fact, I've driven my friend's E46 M3 car with the KW Comp suspension in it. Its hard and uncomfortable. On a bumpy track, I think I lost about 1/4" in height it was so hard. And the damper settings are right at the mid mark. It just wears you out.

I just installed the TCK doubles on a friend's E46 M3. SOOOOOO much better. Two E46 M3s...similarly skilled drivers, same NT01s and pretty much the same mods...the TCK car was 1 second faster than the KW car. From the back, the KW car looks jittery and unsettled.

IMO, the TC Klines blow the KWs away as a dual purpose setup. My theory is KW crunches some numbers and the first time the suspension is on a car is when the first customer buys and installs them. Sure, they do a lot of detailed analysis and testing for the OE market like the SLS. I find it hard to believe as a very large manufacturer that they are testing tuner coilovers on each and every car. Maybe they gather data from tuners first but I think the results speak for themselves.

TC Kline has been featured in a couple of different Bimmer Magazine articles (E90 M3 and 135i)...I found it VERY interesting in the article how TCK seemed to start off with a clean sheet on each platform, had the ACTUAL car to test with and addressed shortcomings specific to that car for a dual purpose car.

Yes, I am a TC Kline fanboy. I'm preaching the TC Kline religion.

What do you think of TCK vs Ohlins R&T? Would like to know how Ohlins performs on the track against TCK.