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Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

We know the pesticides are a problem. Instead of being cautious, it seems they are just going to institute a few minor changes in planting procedures and the government is still trying to use varroa as a scapegoat.

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

Can you explain that? If it were just the planting practices why would it happen everywhere? Isn't it the chemical that is killing the bees? I thought when the chemical hits the ground it becomes inert. Can't be if the bees die from contact with the dust. Most of the dust is going to hit the ground, no?

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

It's truly a disastrous substance to be proliferating around the globe. As we pretty much only grow corn and soy in this province, I strongly suspect the officials are doing their best do downplay the catastrophy for the sake of supporting big industry.

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

Originally Posted by WLC

It's more than just planter dust that's impacting the bees. Since neonics are both water soluble and can have long half lives in soil, they can 'translocate' away from the coated seed and affect pollinators that way. There's a broader environmental contamination issue that needs much closer scrutiny.

A Bayer rep could take you out to the GMO corn monocultures that were planted with neonic coated seed and show you the wildflowers growing next to the cornfield are teaming with wild pollinators like those shown in this 3 minute video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS7xnDRGYjk

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

I believe that it is not only happening in Canada, but many other places. What we have in Ontario and Quebec and probably some of the other provinces is a easy process of reporting and investigating pesticide kills. I am pretty sure that this is lacking in the majority of the US. In Ontario, if you report a pesticide kill to the PMRA they come to your yard with a provincial bee inspector to investigate. The bee inspector examines the hive for signs of other disease and samples are taken back for laboratory testing. Does this happen in your state? If not, you have a big problem. How do you keep track of what you aren't investigating? How do you even know if you have a problem?

A lot of the spring kills here from neonics were acute poisoning. Large population loss (majority of the foragers) with plenty of dead bees out front with pollen. Strong hives were hit hardest. A lot of these incidents coincided closely with planting. Acute poisoning where the majority of dead foragers test positive for the same pesticide are pretty hard to refute.

The chronic effects of neonics are more difficult. This can come from a less than lethal dose of dust or from pollen collected from treated plants. When the colonies are under this pressure on top of mites, viruses etc it is tough to prove what exactly killed them. Increased average winter losses here closely correlates with the widespread use of neonics. Of course correlation is not causation, but the rest of the rest of the pressures (mites, etc) were existing before this.

There is also some question as to whether neonics themselves are very effective. Here is one local farmer's thoughts:

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

I wonder if spring feeding might be another factor that increases the likelihood of bees getting into neonic dust. It sure seems to drive the bees crazy, searching everywhere and everything for food that doesn't exist.

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

In five years this is the first time I've had to do any significant amount of feeding, but I don't think my recent observations are 100% unique. Yesterday, only after I added a top feeder, they were buzzing all around me at a much greater distance than they normally would after really shaking up a hive and getting them angry, starting up orientation flights and investigating random things like my bag of smoker wood. I only looked at two frames before adding the feeders on my two hives. Didn't give them any other reason to change their behaviour.

I also keep hives on an warehouse roof. Usually I don't see any bees till I get close to the hives. When I fed last week and returned 24 hours later to top them up, I was greeted 75 meters away and two stories down from the hives with bees trying to determine if I was a flower. At the hives, they were doing orientation flights non-stop:

I watched the entrances for a long time and feel fairly confident they were not robbers. I'm pretty sure they get the signal that there's food coming in from close by and start searching for it where they normally would, outside the hive.

Re: Are the Canadians wrong?

I guess I haven't noticed that so much when I have fed, but you are correct. When I have fed it seems as though bees look for ways to work on other hives. But I can see where they may seem to have a "Where did that stuff come from? Where can I find more?" sort of focus. Good point.