They're also very, very tired. And the group dynamic that kept them going has been shattered with the loss of T-Dog and Lori, as well as Hershel's crippling injury. Rick got them through the winter, and now he's gone insane. They're simply falling apart.

Great point made! Now the question is, how do they react? I say hit Woodbury at night with a few flaming arrows and be done with it. What are they gonna put the fires out with?

megalynn44:Nina_Hartley's_Ass: megalynn44: It's even advertising the new episode of Walking Dead tonight at 9/8 central. What in the ever living shiat?

west coast feed? recording? anaconda was on earlier.

I'm in the Central time zone but have a pretty shiatty cable provider (only one available). Our DVR says Walking Dead is on right now, but like I said, Anaconda just started instead. We can't record it later. Sunday night DVR recordings are a stack of cards. You shift things and EVERYTHING COLLAPSES! farking hell.

Lsherm:The writers easily could have worked out the dynamics of being trapped in a prison over the course of the season, but instead they're treating it like "Farm House II - Chain Link Fence Boogaloo."

MagSeven:They were being shot at and Rick's group has almost zero experience shooting at people who shoot back.

People were shooting back during the Woodbury raid and Rick's people did OK. Killed six or so and only lost one.

unregenerate:Bhruic: Ugh. The whole Rick going crazy thing was annoying, but I figured I could power through it. But then the end... I haven't figured out if in this universe, people have some sort of bullet forcefield, or if walkers have some sort of magnet in their heads that draws bullets, but damn. The same people who could run around headshotting zombies across large distances can't hit regular people standing out in the open. Not even moving, or taking cover. Hell, even when they aren't even looking your direction. Absolute suspension of disbelief killer.

I'll give it another show, but if they are going to continue to completely change how the physics of the world works based on what they need for that particular episode, I'm going to be done. Just too frustrating to watch.

And yet the fact that there are zombies doesn't even begin to bother you. It's instead that they don't seem to shoot consistently that ruins your suspension of disbelief.

It's about internal consistency. I'm able to accept zombies because it's part of the premise.

Mentat:chewy milk: You guys are letting hollywood and video games color your opinions on how a firefight should or should not look. Yes. There is a HUGE difference between shooting at zombies, and shooting at someone who is shooting back. Yes even if you are both stationary. I dont know the exact number but ive seen statistics where in current and past wars that soldiers would fire tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds for every one kill made. And that is among men who are highly trained to handle those situations with those weapons. When you got bulkets whizzing by your head, shiat gets real messy real fast.

So sure, by season 3 ep. 1, they were zombie killing machines. They had a lot of experience with it. Guess what they had almost zero experience with? Being shot AT. Worrying about cover. Or vantage points. Or flanking maneuvers. Or anything associated with an actual firefight. The few guys who DID have experience either werebt there or cut off from the rest and left highly exposed.

So, you know, stop biatching.

No one is arguing that point. What we're arguing is the situational stupidity of the characters which is reflective of weak writing. The battle itself was not the issue. The issue is that a group that were using aimbots for the entire season suddenly decided to send half their group out on walkabout and ignore the bad guys who drove up, occupied the high ground and started shooting. All of this when the group knew the bad guys were coming. All it would have taken were a few minor changes to the script and you could have had the same fight.

As for the "shooting back" argument, all it took for me was one round of paintball to learn the value of cover. I peeked out from behind a tree for one second and immediately took a shot in the face. Yet the Governor just stood there out in the open. How many times did Axel get shot once he was on the ground? How many times did the file cabinet behind Maggie get hit? How many times did the car door next to the ...

Mentat:And lest it look like I'm just mindlessly biatching, this is how I would have constructed the battle:

Dispense with the Ghost Lori and Maggie = Lori 2.0 subplots. If you need to establish that Rick is going crazy, have him talk into the Lori Phone. Bring Tyreese's group into the fold. Have Glenn step up as a leader in the absence of Darryl. Have the group revert to their killing machine mode and begin preparing the prison for an assault. And I don't mean putting up a few tables and pallets, but actually assessing defenses, drilling, etc. Play on the conceptions of the group that were established in the first episode of Season 3. Let the group and the audience believe that the group is ready for anything and then rip that foundation out from under them during the actual attack. Lead off with the van full of walkers. While the group is distracted, have the Governor attack and kill Axel and some of Tyreese's red shirts. Suddenly the group is in disarray. Their cohesion breaks. They know they're beaten, the Governor knows they're beaten, the audience knows they're beaten.

Same story, same result, no Reverse Stormtrooper Effect, no situational stupidity.

Speaking of: I just noticed in the slo-mo "In Memoriam" segment that Rick's Colt Python, despite being used to viciously bash the brains out of several walkers has absolutely not a drop of blood or gore on it when seen in close-up when the walkers pin him to the fence.

I swear he was stabbing walkers with the barrel of it somehow.

Yup. And still clean as a whistle. Or rather a whistle that hasn't been used to kill a bunch of zombies.

Character building = death. It's why Michonne is such a great survivor. She never says anything, doesn't tell anyone about herself. She'll never die that way. Meth boy starts talking, tells Carol about his life, and that was the end of it.

This is it? For three season all I have heard is "this show is terrible". Ten episodes into season 3, I still watch the show so that I can show Farkers how superior I am (my narrative and show exposition have even started to sound repetitive).The shows biggest crime (other that the cliche "this show is a cliche") is me criticizing yet still watching the show.Now I am wondering as a homeless person seeking to prove how superior I am for disliking yet watching this show, confirming how much of an a-hole I am.

FunkOut:Mad_Radhu: Tencolin: psychicdeath99: Eventually Mr. Science is going to figure out the Governor is evil.

I wonder if he was even a real scientist before the zombie apocalypse. I mean, he does seem to have some methodology to his little experiments, but Milton strikes me more as someone with a bachelor's in psychology.

I see him as the kind of guy who would create a 13 month calendar full of new age bullshiat.

I see him as the guy who taught grade 5 and wasn't very good at it.

He's the Walking Dead's version of Dr. Arzt. Hope he doesn't handle any dynamite.

Mad_Radhu:Tencolin: psychicdeath99: Eventually Mr. Science is going to figure out the Governor is evil.

I wonder if he was even a real scientist before the zombie apocalypse. I mean, he does seem to have some methodology to his little experiments, but Milton strikes me more as someone with a bachelor's in psychology.

I see him as the kind of guy who would create a 13 month calendar full of new age bullshiat.

Tencolin:psychicdeath99: Eventually Mr. Science is going to figure out the Governor is evil.

I wonder if he was even a real scientist before the zombie apocalypse. I mean, he does seem to have some methodology to his little experiments, but Milton strikes me more as someone with a bachelor's in psychology.

I see him as the kind of guy who would create a 13 month calendar full of new age bullshiat.

justtray:This show just sucks now. Maybe I should keep a list of characters they've totally ruined;

DaleLori (kind of sucked in the comic too)AndreaThe GovernorTyrese*Rick*

* because they're trying to ruin them

Per what I implied earlier (and this has nothing to do with the comics):

Dale:

Made this face one too many times on his long spiral into complete uselessness.Annoying scale-- 10 Result: Horrible death.

Lori:

Fate was sealed from this exact point, anyway, but expertise in repeatedly losing her child without having to face any outraged judgment was the big loud boring cherry on top.Annoyance scale--9 (-1 for realistic and accessible hotness) Result: Gut wrenchingly horrific death

"My annoying wife's dead, I killed my best friend, my little brat turned into a sociopathic force of death, I sawed that judgmental veterinarian's foot off, and I kept Glenn alive just long enough to outstay his welcome. WTF can you possibly want from me?"

I have heard that the show has been consistently and dramatically different than the books, which makes a discussion of them moot. I'm not sure how things worked in them, but it is apparent that in the televised Walking Dead universe, life expectancy is directly related to boring screentime, and annoyance level is directly related to the brutality involved in killing said character off. If that's not a show that cares about its audience, I don't know what is.

I haven't read the books, so the only frame of reference I have is the show--which is so far a good show. So, pardon me if this ruffles feathers but a possible rest of the season based on the show dynamics so far:

Feeling like he's totally losing it goes into exile, perhaps even self-imposed.

Meet the new ever-suffering voice of reason, now with less Carl-centered hand-wrining.

Guess who finds Rick and helps him come back from insanity and certain death.

"Hey guys."

"Hey Daryl. What happened to Merle?"

"He didn't make it through the expository subplot about redemption and family. How's Glenn doing? His card should be just about punched at this point."