The Cataclysm Shockadin Guide!

Post by Gryphon

NOTE: GRAIN OF SALT. TAKE IT. THIS GUIDE IS OLD. UNTIL IT'S REPLACED IT IS THE BEST YOU HAVE.

The original author of this guide no longer plays the game and will not be making any alterations to the guide in terms of upkeep and updating. It will fall out of relevance as time progresses. So be warned and be careful.

DISCLAIMER: Much of the following is based on personal opinion, and is to be perhaps taken with a grain of salt, however I deem myself rather qualified to answer as I have played, and indeed, continue to play and experiment with offensive holy paladin builds. :) The following has a PvP focus but I do mention levelling strategy in a number of areas, so it should be useful to both. Just realize that you're not under the constant looming threat of death in every second whilst 2-3 shotting mobs!

Usage: Anywhere but high-end, level-capped PvE environments. (Yes, I'm saying this build is more than likely good in competitive PvP now). A good levelling alternative.

Q: What is a Shockadin?

A: A Shockadin is a Paladin in Holy gear who spends 31 points or more in the Holy tree of the Paladin class, and chooses to spec heavily for the more damageoroffensive utility oriented talents that the tree provides, occasionally even skipping out on some talents that do not serve either purpose that a regular Holydin might otherwise take. They do this to enable them to deal a more significant amount of damage than their regular Holy Paladin brethren, although often to a detriment to their own ability to serve the same role. The build is named after the Holy/Ret Paladins of The Burning Crusade, due to the builds heavy reliance on the spell Holy Shock (However, contrary to popular belief, Judgement (of the Righteous) hit far, far harder than Holy Shock ever did at average level 70 gear levels).

Q: Why would anyone roll a Shockadin?

A: Well, I suppose the most primary answer to that question I can offer you is this: Fun. The Shockadin spec currently represents the strongest possible method of serving a hybrid roll in the Paladin class, mixing the abilities to deal Holy damage, and healing our allies. These two roles offer a certain amount of depth, strategy, and variety in playstyle, and the very fact that the spec is somewhat unique also adds to the fun-factor.

Another reason one might roll a Shockadin is to simply deal more damage. Like me, many Shockadins are ex-Pure Holy Paladins who turned to the build in an effort to remove some of our inadequacies in the standing-on-your-own-two-feet department in a PvP environment (and indeed, in a solo PvE environment). Whether it's in an environment where your allies sometimes outright refuse to aid you in burning down that nasty rogue, or even on a competitive level where you want to remove your reliance on your team-mates to deal damage for you, the Shockadin certainly does have some advantages over it's more purely-built brother. And some disadvantages, naturally.

The final reason is for levelling purposes - The Shockadin provides a very well rounded character for levelling, featuring a large amount of armor, great healing ability, and reasonably good DPS. There are some disadvantages to rolling ANY holy paladin to level, over their Retribution or Protection alternatives, namely that of mana reliance, however, with intelligent gear and talent choices this soon becomes negligible.

Q: What does a good Shockadin do?

A: A good Shockadin is adept at mixing between the roles of healing, damage and support. She knows when a string of Exorcism casts will aid the cause more than healing that ally, even sometimes when they're at low HP! This is the case regardless of where they are, in a dungeon, heroic, arena or battleground.

However it is important to note that the spec has little to no business being inside a raid, be it 10 or 25 man, standard difficulty, heroic, or hardmode. They do not do sufficient damage to be able to pull their weight, and sacrificing your healing capabilities in a raid scenario, as a healer, is definitely not a good idea. Unless you're farming the content and your friends do not mind carrying you, or you've been asked to come specifically as a Shockadin, do not attend raids as this build unannounced.

Q: What are key Shockadin abilities?

A: A good shockadin will use the majority of her spell book to great effect, be it in dealing damage or healing. The ones they use most frequently however include the following:Exorcism - Your primary spammable nuke.

Holy Shock: Can be considered to be an instant counterpart to the above, with a shorter range, but a little more damage.

Word of Glory: Our primary healing ability. We generate Holy Power, on a base, untalented level, via Holy Shock, and optionally, Crusader Strike. Whilst talented we can also gain Holy Power from Blessed Life and/or Tower of Radiance, each of which has their own advantages and disadvantages in certain settings.Crusader Strike: Best used whilst moving and in melee range of an enemy target, to generate a free Holy Power, to be used with Word of Glory (Above).

Q: What kind of stats should a Shockadin look for? What kind of gems do I need?

A: A lot of intellect, for obvious reasons (It provides Spell power). Other than that, the other stats a Shockadin might find on his or her gear include the following:

Spirit: Important for mana regen and hit rating. Get enough, and no more.

Critical Strike Rating: Very useful for us. Has a larger effect on our damage abilities than our healing ones, strictly from a theorycrafting point of view, due to the possibility of overhealing, but it does provide certain benefits through a number of talents that make it an important stat for us, regardless of whether it is our heals or damaging spells that crit.

Haste Rating: Again, important. We want enough of this to get our exorcism down to a decent cast time. Also effects all of our casted heals, but our focus on the healing point of view are usually instant casts.

Mastery Rating: Absolute trash. Provides an absorb shield equal to a certain amount equal to a percentage of the total amount of healing done. Sounds good in theory. In practice, it doesn't roll (It gets overwritten, the effect of the previous buff doesn't carry over to the next), and doesn't serve any offensive utility anyway.Hit Rating: Only really necessary if you haven't talented for Enlightened Judgements (Not something I'd currently recommend), in which case you'll need quite a lot of this. It isn't available on Holy Paladin gear by default, so you will have to reforge some of that Mastery or surplus spirit into it, or find it on offplate gear, such as your Neck, or your Cloak.

Armor, ResilienceandStamina: Naturally, very important stats for battlegrounds and arena. I personally recommend you get as much of these as you can via gear, but gear only. It is my recommendation that you do not enchant, or gem for any of these stats, but if you must, depending on your playstyle choice, I have linked suitable gems above. Your shield is the best item to upgrade if you're interested in armor. Also helps if it has Resilience and Stamina on it.Spell Power: Only here for the sake of weapons. Naturally, the higher number on your weapon, the better. Also seen on trinkets and socket bonuses.

All other stats are irrelevant or useless for us, unless I've missed something. Strength provides no benefit but parry, which is almost completely useless, agility provides useless melee crit and armor, also for the most part useless, dodge and parry - for the most part, useless. Spell penetration, deceptively good, also useless, as all of our attacks are non-resistable (As there is no such mechanic as Holy Resistance in WoW, other than a seldom ever used flask).

In terms of what items you should find these stats on: Preferably, full plate. Before level 40 it's okay to wear a mixture of Cloth, Leather and Mail, but at level 40 you get the very nice Plate Specialization, so -try- to get full plate.

This isn't likely though before level 58, as there are very few caster plate options. To go along with your armor, you'll want a 1 handed Mace or Sword with Spell power on it, and a caster shield (Any shield with intellect on it). These may be hard to find at low levels, so try to find "of the Eagle" (Intellect and Stamina), "of the Whale" (Stamina and Spirit), or "of the Owl" (Intellect and Spirit) gear. You may need to wear a lot of cloth before level 40, after which is where a larger variety of caster leather and mail begin to drop.

When you get to Outland, you'll be showered in better itemized caster Plate rewards, so just bide your time till then.

Q: What are key talent choices for a Shockadin?

A: The following build is suitable for both PvP and levelling. Feel free to change the talents a little and mix them up, but use your intelligence when doing so. It is already a decent talent tree, so I suggest if you can resist toying with it, you do so. (Might be a good idea to move a point out of Enlightened Judgements if one rank will keep you hit-capped against same-level targets. It will almost always be the case at 80. You can chuck it into Tower of Radiance if you like.)

A: Justice is handy to have already buffed in PvP, ready to whack a passing druid in travel form, shaman in ghost form, a rogue in sprint... all manner of situations. Elsewhere you'll want Insight or possibly Truth, though I've not actually tested that one out yet.

As for your Blessing, you'll almost always want Kings, though if you're having mana trouble, Blessing of Might helps a lot.

Post by Rouen

Poast (lol see wut I did der)

It's true that healers will have the ability to DPS better then they do currently, but I'm concerned about the "mana matters" situation we'll have in Cataclysm... at least early on.

We'll be gaining spellpower from intellect by default now and intellect still gives mana, Divine Plea will remain a 1 minute cooldown, and Seal of Wisdom/Seal of Light are getting spliced together so we can still melee for mana based on % of our total mana pool.

I wonder if Shockadins will make a major come back.

Edit: Holy Power will make for interesting PvP as a Shockadin. Here are a few facts.

- Beacon of Light will still bounce all heals, but they will only bounce 50%.- Healing a Beacon'ed target directly will generate Holy Power through Tower of Radiance.- Holy Power can be used to improve holy damage or be a free instant heal that if cast on yourself, will still bounce to your Beacon.- Crusader Strike and Holy Shock both build Holy Power, I assume HS will build whether it's used offensively or for healing.

I can see a few gameplay styles coming out of this.

Post by Arannia

We'll be using a lot of spirit, to hit-cap us. I don't forsee any major mana problems. We can, after all, always switch to Seal of Insight, which, for me at least, currently (Seal of Wisdom) provides more mana than I know what to do with, when I'm not doing any healing.

Post by Rouen

I edited my first post a few times, FYI.

Post by Arannia

Ah, thanks for the information regarding Holy Power. I'll throw it into the OP.

Post by Zatontrv

This thread should be named : "Shockadin in Cata: Haters Gonna Hate"

Looking forward to see how it works out in the new expansion. I really enjoyed shock spec in TBC and LK

Post by cythare

On a separate note, thank you Arannia, for putting this up. Like you, I don't really like the Retribution or Protection specs for a paladin, because my other character is a warrior. I am willing to accept that such a spec is not ideal for OMG MAX DPS, but if I wanted to play melee dps or tank, I would just log into another character.

Post by Arannia

Anyway, let's get back to constructive chatter, shall we? :D

And you are very welcome, Cythare.

Post by svirve

The point is that to talk in terms of optimizing the suboptimal is a contradiction in terms. For TBC ret paladins, there were optimal ways to play a weak spec, but that's not comparable to talking in terms of optimal ways to play a spec that is fundamentally non-optimal.

To satisfy the aims of the guide would be to negate them. How do you optimize a shockadin? You respec.

If you want to strap on a silly gear set and shock stuff for absurd amounts that's totally your choice. Writing a guide on how to do it is silly. I often have fun DPSing as prot in ret gear; some holy pallies get a kick out of DPSing as holy in caster gear. That's good fun, but to write a guide on how to do so would be obtuse.

Wait so in tBC it was o.k. to optimize the sub-optimal ret paladins, but in cata it's not o.k. to optimize the sub-optimal shockadins, cause that's an oxymoron.

And since it's obviously forbidden to optimize sub-optimal specs, why optimize sub-optimal classes?Make 3 classes, DPS (rogue), healer (shaman), tank (paladin) now there you have optimal and a very fun game!

P.S.I'll add this as a "cata" link (the first one!) after your shockadin FAQ Arannia!

Post by Arannia

P.S.I'll add this as a "cata" link (the first one!) after your shockadin FAQ Arannia!

Thanks. :D

Post by Lynri

Interesting in seeing how builds will fare, will they slap the 3 into Seals of the Pure and go straight ret or will they put more pts into Prot? Pick up the 10% melee haste as well (Seal of Righteousness and etc.)

Seeing how Conviction (9% damage) + Imp. Judgement (2seconds off cd) are better I doubt it but it'd be interesting. Would be hilarious seeing the old school 2her Shockadin (for leveling) though you'd lose the Shield of Righteousness that I believe is very nice (though it's based on block for the most part).

That would bring up another interesting debate on the aspect of 2h vs 1h + shield for Shockadin in Cata. (Granted I can't think of anything other then staves with + Spellpower at 80 :P ) *Who remembers Hammer of Righteous Might?*

P.S. I don't see any mention of Might of the Protector since it can lead to a % heal increase (if you're going further into Prot tree and lack a Prot Paladin). granted it's not as strong as several of the Ret talents, but a Holy/Prot version wouldn't be really termed a "Shockadin" though granted more survivability hmm..

*considering the leveling aspect of Shockadin*

Post by pezz

Losing ShoR is a non-issue for a lot of leveling, considering when you get it.

The useful thing about it, though, is that it's a free seal proc.

You'd definitely use a one hander and a shield in Wrath content, though, regardless. There's no 2h spellpower weapons holy paladins can use.

Post by Lynri

There's the 2h greens/blues depending on luck/ah that have +spell power so if you're not using Heirlooms you can do pretty decently there. So the ShoR wouldn't come into affect until 75 and is based on block which does kind of suck >.<

Would be interesting to see if the viability was a possibility and could match to a 1h + Shield.

Post by Gnub

Anyway, let's get back to constructive chatter, shall we? :D

QFT.

Post by Arannia

I doubt it. No 2h'ers out there take a chunk of their damage and translate it into Spell power, like caster staves and 1h Spell power weapons do. A 2h weapon, with spell power on it or not, would serve to enhance our physical DPS at the detriment of our Caster DPS, unless they make one that is correctly itemized (less physical damage in exchange for stats).

The reason a 2h weapon WOULD work, is because Seal of Righteous deals more damage with 2h'ers given the same amount of spell/attack power. But the weapon is the highest source of spell power, and will be even more so in Cataclysm. Sacrificing even half of that isn't worth it.

Post by Aestu

From what I recall, aside from the Godwin post, he was arguing that your guide was useful, albeit not nearly as vocally as you were. Does that mean that you lose?

In a Godwin'd thread, the loser is the party that mentions Hitler first.

I'll just state this in response to everything Aestu has ever posted in response to me;

FOR FUN.

It's a game. There are no "rules" that state I can't be a Shockadin.

The rules are the mechanics of the game.

As I said, you are free to have fun putting on spellpower gear and shocking things to death, just as I'm free to put on ret gear as prot and hammer things to death. Is it fun? Sure. But there's no reason to write a guide or review on how to do it if the object is pure "fun".

You continually make the case that shockadin is legitimate and that those who disagree are "bigots". You write a guide on how to optimize a pointless spec. So your goal isn't "fun", it's to turn this game into some sort of moral crusade. It is a game. The game is defined by its mechanics.

So long as talents exist (and can be taken to advance up the tree instead of healing talents), Blizzard clearly is supporting an optional offensive (sub-optimal) spec for Holy Paladins. If those talents wern't there I'd give up immediately. Of course I would. There's simply no point.However, the existance of these talents, and mechanics in favour of increasing the spell damage the Holy Paladin reinforces the fact that Blizzard, whether they call it "Shockadin" or not, wants Holy Paladins to be able to be offensive in the right gear and spec, even if never optimally, or even to a degree where they are never seen in high-end, serious content, such as high-rated arena/random Battlegrounds, or Hardmode PvE (or even "easymode" PvE).

Blizzard has continually nerfed shockadins and gone to extraordinary lengths to marginalize the spec.

Proof that Blizzard does not intend for Shockadins to be viable:

They do not balance the game around shockadin. When Blizzard adjusts DPS mechanics, they do so with respect to viable PvE specs. They think, "okay, how will this affect assassination rogues, enhancement shamans, fury warriors?". They don't think in such terms about shockadins because they are not part of their design scheme.

They have eliminated a lot of the itemization that was optimal for shockadins, because if it existed at 80, they'd use it. It doesn't exist because Blizzard doesn't want it to. Example: two-handed maces and swords with spellpower. They were quite a few in vanilla, then only three in TBC. Of those three, one had no spellpower, one was eventually re-itemized to remove the spellpower, and the third remains as it is. At 80, such weapons don't exist, because Blizzard didn't want the spec they were used with to remain viable.

The holy tree has a lot of relatively marginal talents that aren't particularly desirable in PvE or PvP. Yet none of these give paladins options that would be useful to a shockadin. If Blizzard intended for shockadins to be viable, they would give them pure DPS talents in the holy tree, or in early tiers of the other two trees. By contrast, arms warriors can easily get a talent that is purely dedicated to tanking as arms, because it's Blizzard's intent that their DPS tree provide some tanking utility, just as ret paladins and feral druids get a talent that gives them some healing utility. As it is, holy paladins get a bonus to hit so holy paladins don't see their judgments resisted, which would be a massive inconvenience.

The mechanics also make their intent clear. Holy Shock itself has a shorter range for offense than healing. Its range for offense is shorter than any other primary caster nuke in the game, even shorter than Mind Flay. If they wanted holy paladins to have significant offensive capability, they would have range equal to holy priests and resto druids. Paladin spells and abilities get dual coefficients, but the coefficients are rigged so that spellpower is grossly inferior as a DPS stat. If they wanted shockadin to be viable, the coefficients would be more even.

And why, you ask, would I purposely sub-optimize myself?

Because I want to be offensive in my "spare time". I want to "optimize" the DPS I can do in my "spare time", whilst still doing what I WANT to do, and HAVE FUN. I'm not hurting anyone else - I don't advise taking this build into any serious group content, especially in PvE. Battlegrounds, yes, because the build has some utility there (but then, all builds work in battlegrounds to some degree or another).Also, yeah. I'm nostalgic. I really enjoyed being a Shockadin back in TBC. And I still get that, when I play a Shockadin today. Maybe it's not as powerful. Maybe it's not as lethal. Maybe it's even laughed at more today than it was then.

As a person, I have the power to define what is fun to me. What is fun for me may not be optimal to you, it may not be fun for you.Why do people juggle? A worthless skill.Why do people contort their bodies into pretzel-like-shapes? Completely stupid.Why do people troll forums? I'll leave this one for you to answer.But, at least partially, the answer to all of the above, is "fun".

You're playing the martyr. No one, least of all me, has a problem with you building a spellpower DPS set as a novelty. But if you come onto forums and claim a spec is viable or useful or there's a science to it when there isn't, you're asking for trouble, as much as anyone who comes onto a forum and makes any other sort of ridiculous claim.

I don't like Retribution. I don't like Protection. I don't like Protribution. And why? Quite honestly, they all feel like my warrior. I like my holy paladin. It feels great. I feel like a Paladin. Offensively, A primarily melee combatant with still-vicious spells-that-feel-like-spells at range, and with the hybrid utility of almost-massive heals, aswell as having plenty of mana to chuck around. The other specs even use "warrior" gear, but as a Shockadin, I stack things such as Spell Power. Intellect. Even just the feel of those stats for me contributes to why I like to Shockadin. Not to mention the fact that in Cataclysm we get a sprint, which is pretty key in terms of Battlegrounds at least (which is where I spend the majority of my time). Protection and Retribution don't get that.

That is how the game is designed. Maybe it's not as good as it could be, but that's the game.

One last point I'd like to raise: The Shockadin spec provides an alternative to Holy Paladins who want to spec to optimize their solo-chores (such as Daily Quests) without having to collect an alternative set of gear. Paladins are unique in the crippling fact that we cannot respec into Protection or Retribution and expect to do reasonable DPS (or even more DPS than we would if we had just stayed in our healer spec) in our Spell power gear. The other healers don't have this problem. Priests have Shadow. Shamans have Elemental. Druids have Boomkin. The Shockadin spec offers this alternative, albiet, much less optimally than the alternatives granted to those of the other classes. I know I don't ever want to be retribution, or protection. I know I don't enjoy those specs. But I enjoy the Shockadin, and can accept the fact that I am not going to be as powerful, mathematically, as I would be as Prot and/or Ret.

This is specious because to be a shockadin, the paladin would have to have a dedicated set of gear with gems, enchants and itemization geared for that spec. He would also have to have a dedicated shockadin spec. Therefore, to pick up shockadin spec and gear for the purpose of saving half a bag would be self-defeating.

Holy paladins that don't have an offspec and want to grind are best served to simply put on a DPS libram and spellpower trinkets.

But I feel more powerful, as a person, knowing that I'm doing something because I find it fun. Not because people who have nothing to do with me dictate to me what I should find fun, and what I shouldn't. As a person, I have this power. And I feel powerful.

It is a game.

Using a video game to delude yourself into feeling "powerful" is perverse.

Post by Arannia

It would be nice to see Blizzard implement 2h spell power weapons actually, now that I think of it. It would give Holy paladins another alternative weapon choice, (currently only have two), and it's not as if no one can use them. Elemental/resto shamans, resto/boomkin druids! Well, assuming it's a mace.

EDIT: Premium'd.

Post by Lynri

Aetsu, it's like I said prior. Overcompensating for a lack of a better word, hatred of Shockadins. So here's a bit by bit follow up to your argument:

It is a game. The game is defined by its mechanics.

And we are it's players, we are to strive to cheat the game in any way possible. We are to make it work the way we want it to. Look at Diseaseless Blood Dk and DW Frost when Nax first came out, you think Blizzard initially wanted those? No they removed them and Ghostcrawler went on to say that 2her's were the Dk weapon of choice, they brought back DW due to community, not requirement.

They want things balanced but Blizzard has never gone and said "this is how you spec and that's it" they can't since someone will come up with a better off the wall spec that will completely disprove them. it's also been proven that most of the best gamers and ones that find the way through loopholes are regular gamers not company employees.

Blizzard has continually nerfed shockadins and gone to extraordinary lengths to marginalize the spec.

They've done this for everyone... It's not a shockadin only aspect. I can name about 4-5 patches that were literally DK or Hunter nerf only.

They have eliminated a lot of the itemization that was optimal for shockadins, because if it existed at 80, they'd use it. It doesn't exist because Blizzard doesn't want it to. Example: two-handed maces and swords with spellpower. They were quite a few in vanilla, then only three in TBC. Of those three, one had no spellpower, one was eventually re-itemized to remove the spellpower, and the third remains as it is

The most EPIC fail ever. The spell power 2her's were from Ret Paladins back prior to their change and improvements to their overall spec allowing them not to require spell power on gear. The advantage back then was we could steal Ret gear and go Shockadin. Now that Ret gear is the same as Warrior and DK we can't go doing that as it's all + Strength only. They gave Ret's a conversion for spell power to allow them to function as a "possible" raid dps. In TBC and Vanilla WoW ret paladins were strictly PvP ONLY

f Blizzard intended for shockadins to be viable, they would give them pure DPS talents in the holy tree, or in early tiers of the other two trees

When has Blizzard done anything that's worked correctly the first time? Look at Ret Paladins, they required all melee stats + Int and Spell Power until WoTLK came in and got a major retooling. Blizzard is giving us a LOT of dps possible talents in Cata and have you forgot the % damage increase to Seals in first tier of Holy? And the fact that we're required to Judgement now (compared to prior for Holy).talents in Cata that could provide possible dps and available to Shockadin:CrusadeSeals of the PureConvictionImproved JudgementJudgements of the Pure*Enlightened Judgements*Denounce*

*Holy talents... notice that we're the one of the only class/spec currently with Hit Rating from talents that are melee based >.>

By contrast, arms warriors can easily get a talent that is purely dedicated to tanking as arms, because it's Blizzard's intent that their DPS tree provide some tanking utility

No they never will, this was solely implemented for DK. The multiple tanking trees. If you knew anything about Prot Warriors. There's a famous bleed spec build that allows Prot's to generate massive threat by using the bleed (Deep Wounds) bonus talents in beginning tiers of Arms with slow strong 1her's for impressive threat gen vs. fast 1her's. As to why Last Laugh vs Broken Promise. So this entire point of the arguement is moot and not even worth the discussion here in Pally threads..

The mechanics also make their intent clear. Holy Shock itself has a shorter range for offense than healing. Its range for offense is shorter than any other primary caster nuke in the game, even shorter than Mind Flay. If they wanted holy paladins to have significant offensive capability, they would have range equal to holy priests and resto druids

Except for the fact that Paladin's are not ranged dps... Nearly all dps is melee based... Prot - Ret or Holy... The entire idea that you need more range? Why? You're going to be melee hitting from 40 ft away? That's one hell of a melee swing...

Paladin spells and abilities get dual coefficients, but the coefficients are rigged so that spellpower is grossly inferior as a DPS stat. If they wanted shockadin to be viable, the coefficients would be more even

Actually, the spell co-efficient for most of Ret spells are higher sp then ap due to the fact that they lack significant sp. As such I don't understand what you're talking about... Seeing as how Holy Shock is sp based >.< Possibly you're confused here about Paladin coefficients.

But if you come onto forums and claim a spec is viable or useful or there's a science to it when there isn't

Viable -

practicable; workable

Dictionary.comMight want to read up on the definition of the word. Shockadin can and is workable, therefore viable. Is it raid competitive? No, but Arianna and everyone here agrees that it will most likely never be.

the paladin would have to have a dedicated set of gear with gems, enchants and itemization geared for that spec. He would also have to have a dedicated shockadin spec.

We have a dedicated set of gear, it's equivalent to Holy Pally gear... As with gems and enchants, it's the same exact as the weight scale is NEARLY the exact SAME. As for Shockadin "spec" there's no specific "1 spec = all" you'll see 4-5 different specs for the same trees. Now granted you'll see more of specific specs because of dps competitivity... but that's "competitive" not "viable"

But I feel more powerful, as a person, knowing that I'm doing something because I find it fun. Not because people who have nothing to do with me dictate to me what I should find fun, and what I shouldn't. As a person, I have this power. And I feel powerful

She was expressing this emotionally. She feels far more secure and in place with a Shockadin build vs other Paladin builds. It's the equivalence to a security blanket as a kid. Now in game you'll see a great many players who can be top dps in one spec but despite ALL the practice in the world they can't manage other specs. It's actually incredibly common. So Arianna feels insync with Shockadin, well that's great for her.

Using a video game to delude yourself into feeling "powerful" is perverse

What's perverse is you need to continue arguing a fruitless and utterly pointless arguement that you don't even support correctly... :(

Post by Lynri

I apologize for the previously long post. Secondly:

It would be nice to see Blizzard implement 2h spell power weapons actually, now that I think of it. It would give Holy paladins another alternative weapon choice, (currently only have two), and it's not as if no one can use them. Elemental/resto shamans, resto/boomkin druids! Well, assuming it's a mace.

They had them in TBC, disappointed it didn't carry over. i would definitely agree with Druids (as they used to, *Hammer of Righteous Might* was a highly common boomkin item in TBC prior to raiding and etc.) though I'd argue the Shamans for the pure point that I could. Just feels odd seeing 2h non Enhance Shaman lol

It would be nice to bring them back but I can understand why not. There's a huge misconception with Spell Power affecting spells for Death Knights and misconceptions for Ret Pallys as well (mainly from new players)

*edit*

The purpose of a thread is to reason things through. To close one's mind to alternative points of view is to negate the very point of any forum post.

You posted this after :

Hence I am engaging your post and reasoning why you are mistaken, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

You've come up with this godlike complex claiming you're right 100% and yet you say you're trying to reason thing through and that everyone is is "closing" their mind?

Post by Gnub

Now, in this case, I believe the tenets of what you are claiming - that shockadin is viable, that it's an paradigm intended by the devs, that it can actually do anything well - are wrong. Hence I am engaging your post and reasoning why you are mistaken, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

Let's look at the start of the thread - after taking a very long look at the first sentence - shall we?

Now, of course, I don't expect to ever equal the damage output of a true DPS, whilst at the same time, equalling the raw healing power of a true Holy Paladin, and neither should you! This spec is sub-optimal and will continue to be sub-optimal (and indeed, back in it's heyday in TBC, it was still sub-optimal!) With that in mind, let's discuss the changes to the Paladin class, starting with the current talent trees in the beta.

On top of that, let's add the good old "If you have nothing constructive to add to a thread, don't post in it.". I'm sure every one is aware that a Shockadin isn't as viable as any other build, but it's a Holy Build with a fun twist to it - and what's wrong with a bit of dreaming?

I'll say it again: Let's keep the discussion constructive and in a positive mood - after re-posting that very first sentence of the thread.