WOW!!! I had no idea just how many of you have no idea the principles this country was founded upon and are letting the Marxist/Socialist agenda of this administration brainwash you... You go Iddee... with you all the way...

Poppi, Your tag line tells me it is time to stop arguing in this thread. Thanks for the reminder.

Logged

"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

i do have to admit that i am curious about what FRAME would like to see the govt do? what new regulations, etc.

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

For example, a free market requires perfect knowledge. Supply and demand works to optimize the price only when buyer and seller have perfect knowledge of the availability of goods and the distribution of prices. But that rarely happens in a market larger than a village. If there is a large supply at a low price just down the road and you don't know about it, you will pay an incorrect price. So there is a role for government in requiring transparency and fair distribution of information about pricing. That's why insider trading is illegal. That's why there are laws about what may be advertised as a "sale price". And that's why there is a minimum wage. Business can't be trusted to treat customers or employees fairly. If we want a fair economic system, we need government regulation to prevent fraud, price gouging, etc.

We have all that already.

I think what we are discussing now is making that government "police force" bigger than the village market that it is policing. And the "protection" money that it demands to do that. To the point that the villagers are leaving and going to village markets where they don't need to pay as much protection money, or get beat up if they talk to the "police" wrong.

i'm not sure why liberals have such a hard time understanding how the economy works. it's not that hard.

i see no "only" in there. however, it is liberals the do seem to have the most difficulty grasping basic market concepts. for my purposes, a liberal is anyone who believes salvation is in government programs and regulations.

if you think my question and definition are mean spirited, i think perhaps you are a little thin skinned.....or a liberal? your choice......

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

Nationwide our citizen police have arrested over one thousand "occupiers." How many from Wall Street have received the same (well) deserved treatment? You must understand who 'our' police work for under these circumstances. As with any abuser, violence is only acceptable from top down. Retribution from the abused is never acceptable. That's why they are peaceful....for now. One must not mistake pacifism (or liberalism) for someone unwilling to fight and die for a just cause.

FYI; the original plan with OWS was to 'occupy' the park in front of JP Chase at Chase Plaza, you know, those guys (and gals)who stole billions, helped crash our economy, took billions in tax payer payoffs, passes out multimillion dollar bonuses, refuses to lend capital (despite being charged a NEGATIVE RATE by US), and is still lobbying Congress to gouge us more and kill recent regs that might put them all in jail if they continue the present course), but the CEO (Jamie Dimon) caught wind of it and wrote a check out to the NY Police Foundation for 4.6 million and the Chase Plaza was 'pre-emptively' shut down.

This is but one tiny example of how authority works in America (and the rest of the world too) and is exactly why people are in the streets today camping out on concrete. Even tea partiers have been joining OWS since the Tea party has pretty much been exposed for the tool they've become "from all the money" that poured into it, along with all those nasty politicians ;)

Thin skinned? Look in the mirror. Kathyp is hardly a puppet master, sorry, although she might be working for some of them :-D.

thomas

Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Lets not forget that the occupy crowd was making the park unavailable for the rest of the public. It was becoming squalor and unsanitarywhich made the park unsuitable for others. Do you really think shutting the doors of every corporation in America will help? Or just the chosen few,chosen by whom?

I'd like to know why these people are not camped out in front of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.They've taken money directly from the taxpayers and blew it and are perfect examples of what these OWS CROWD SAY AHAT THEY ARE AGAINST.But I guess if these agencies have approval of Barney Frank and others it's different.

FYI; the original plan with OWS was to 'occupy' the park in front of JP Chase at Chase Plaza, you know, those guys (and gals)who stole billions, helped crash our economy, took billions in tax payer payoffs, passes out multimillion dollar bonuses, refuses to lend capital (despite being charged a NEGATIVE RATE by US), and is still lobbying Congress to gouge us more and kill recent regs that might put them all in jail if they continue the present course), but the CEO (Jamie Dimon) caught wind of it and wrote a check out to the NY Police Foundation for 4.6 million and the Chase Plaza was 'pre-emptively' shut down.

you may not like what they did, but it's not against the law. and, those banks paid back what they took...some under duress, with interest....unlike the auto industries, who have not, and will not, pay back what they were "loaned".

OWS may have some valid points, but they are protesting in the wrong place. if companies are in bed with government, it is because government threw back the sheets. want to protest? do it in front of congress and the white house. companies do what they need to do to survive what government throws at them. governments buy into companies because government is corrupt. crony capitalism is a problem, but it comes from government.

and so i say again....if liberals understood anything about business and the economy, they wouldn't be crapping in a park, they'd be crapping in the halls of congress and on the white house lawn. we don't need more government. that's how this started. we need less.

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

To big to fail is too big to exist. Tar and feathering sounds like a good place to start with some of them.

The Chase Plaza is/was/remains a barely used (unless you count the company smokers) expansive piece of concrete (its just one reason that site was selected).

Occupiers 'are' in DC performing their civic duty, have been for a while now. Many marched the 230 miles from NYC arriving just today. The locals best get used to it. "this aint no tea party"

Have any of you ever tried getting close to the White House recently, much less camp on the lawn? The authorities rarely 'allow' camping on the Mall (our Mall) anymore, done that more than a few times, it helped end a war one time 8-) long ago.

thomas

« Last Edit: November 28, 2011, 07:07:35 PM by T Beek »

Logged

"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

let them stay, but let every group of them put up a million dollar bond to pay for the police and the damages. there's no reason the tax payers should have to foot the bill for civil disobedience. they are there by choice, let them pay for it.

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

I think that if our leader had just a little help from the party who's ONLY objective :evil: is to elect a Republican ( and to H*** with anything else): We would be alot better off! When President Clinton signed NAFTA :evil:, EVERY President alive at the time was there APPLAUDING :shock:! When President Nixon visited China, all the CW, said it was a good thing. I worked at a factory that went to Juarez, Mexico in 2006, the Moron in Chief (at the time) was too busy running up our national debt to notice! ( How can you fund 2 wars - Give the rich a Tax break :roll:!!!??? AHH YEAAA?)And : How do you spell incompetent? I dunno I thik it beegens witha DUBYA!

now, that I'm on a roll; There seems to be a lot of people on this forum, that believe government regulation is a bad thing. How many families of dead Chinese coal miners would like a little governmental regulation? How many Chinese babies were poisoned, because there was No government regulation? How many species have been brought back from the brink of extinction, because of government regulation? How many tax dollars, have been spent to help save the honey bee?

Who hollars the loudest? The man whose ox got gored! Leave my ox alone and I will return the favor!

I don't know which a fends me more: insinuating I'm an Idiot or calling PRESIDENT Obama " Worthless"

well ray, i don't know you well enough to say you are an idiot. i don't think the president is worthless. to the progressive agenda, he's worth lots.

why did your company go to Mexico? what do you think the president should have done to stop that?

has anyone said there should be no regulation of anything? i have not. i think there should be less, and that what there is should be well thought out. we lost 100's of timber jobs in my area because of a spotted owl that wasn't in trouble and wasn't in the timber that they stopped cutting. that's not smart regulation, is it?

i know! if you want companies to stay in this country, how about if you don't regulate them to death? maybe you'd like some wage control so that we are competitive? how about retirement benefits brought in line with those in Mexico? after all, there has to be some incentive for a company to stay. if you want your money and your stuff, maybe the government shouldn't have the highest corporate tax in the world? maybe there shouldn't be an unaccountable agency in Washington stopping the creation of factories in non-union states to favor their union buddies? maybe there shouldn't be a war on the oil and coal industry?

man...that bush guy...gone 3 years and it's still all his fault! that's amazing. bet he wished he'd known he had so much power that no one could overcome his legacy! oh....BTW....Obama had a majority congress for 2 years. what did he do with that? oh! he ran up the debt more than all presidents before him combined!

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....

I'm guessing that with Obama having two full years of a Democrat controlled Congress with a super majority,all of our problems should have been solved. But instead,he was able to sign for more spending in two years than this nation ever racked up every year previous to that point. Government spending should be severely cut before asking for a dime more of taxpayer money. This government does not have a revenue problem. It is a spending problem.We had Congress passing unpopular bills in the middle of the night and Christmas Eve when people were less attentive to what they were doing.Are people aware Congress is somewhat immune to insider trading. Nancy Pelosi made a lot of money on investments that she was privy to legislation that was to be passed and government contracts to be let. There is enough blame to go around. Dubya was a bit too liberal on his policies as far as I'm concerned.

there's more if you need it. yes, as a technical matter, they paid the loans, but they paid it with TARP money, so the taxpayer is still out. and all that stock that never lived up to expectations?? you know, the stock that the govt bought and then gave to unions at a very discounted price?

when you google, you have to read past the 1st result....and know what questions to ask.

Logged

.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....