Posted - 2017.06.06 00:16:45 -
[61] - Quote
You know, after looking at your employment history, I feel pretty bad for you. You've come back to the game for a few weeks and you get the door slammed in your face. My previous post was made in irratation and I wanted to convey some very basic principles about how Eve worked. I want to pass on a few words of advice, even wiser than my previous hard post.

1. Understand people. Read, "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnigie. It is a must.

2. Understand EVE is a game. The best way to learn how to play is by listening to advice spoken by people who've actually acomplished what you are attempting to do.

3. The worst thing you can possibly be is stubborn. Especially in this game. A few months ago, I was brazen enough to take on a bet, that I could take an Orca into nullsec, through multiple regions and back to my home system at that time, from Jita. I thought I was that good. I was butchered in low sec before I even made it into null. Does that mean I'm now a terrible player? No, it means I was stupid, foolhardy and arrogant to other people warning me not to do the bet. (Ok, I never really did expect to survive and I was too busy having fun blowing up 700m to care about it at the time, afterall it was a bet and I didn't really expect to survive, but this prooves my point). At that time, I did not think of the negative repurcussions that would have, like being stuck with a killmail that size on my killboard. (Since alot of Corps look at your KB to decide if they want you). I thought I would share this story to hopefully inspire you to start looking beyond your own opinions and beliefs.

Posted - 2017.06.06 01:04:57 -
[64] - Quote
After a brief excursion into Pandemic Horde's sovereignty, I feel I understand what the original poster's complaint are, at least to what I can interpret:

My Observations:- Pandemic Horde space is indeed quite easy to walk into if you are alone, particularly with a lack of warp disruption devices, and considering I idled next to a caracal for approximately 30 seconds- His Miner issue appears to be more of an issue in regards to the systems themselves as my observations shown that there is a lack of certain materials within their belts, aside from what can be procured from Ore sites.- The Claim of anti-social players seems somewhat valid as I attempted to engage the natives with little success except for Dark Lord Trump- Prices from observing the Market tool aren't as preferable to what It is potentially found elsewhere, even as an Amarrian pilot- The rats are humongous, quite literally as most I witnessed weren't any smaller than a destroyer- The Main staging system appears to be several jumps away from the nearest low sec station in order to acquire equipment- It is rather boring in that direction unless you have the proper size classification of ship, or an accompanying fleet, to ensure its worthwhile.- A number of citadels are being unused to their full potential as I passed by an unoccupied Fortizar upon entering from low sec, a practically 500 billion isk investment underutilized

So some of the original poster's complaints possess solidarity or an underlying cause, as to be impartial towards any party involved in this thread.

- Pandemic Horde space is indeed quite easy to walk into if you are alone, particularly with a lack of warp disruption devices, and considering I idled next to a caracal for approximately 30 seconds- His Miner issue appears to be more of an issue in regards to the systems themselves as my observations shown that there is a lack of certain materials within their belts, aside from what can be procured from Ore sites.- The Claim of anti-social players seems somewhat valid as I attempted to engage the natives with little success except for Dark Lord Trump- Prices from observing the Market tool aren't as preferable to what It is potentially found elsewhere, even as an Amarrian pilot- The rats are humongous, quite literally as most I witnessed weren't any smaller than a destroyer- The Main staging system appears to be several jumps away from the nearest low sec station in order to acquire equipment- It is rather boring in that direction unless you have the proper size classification of ship, or an accompanying fleet, to ensure its worthwhile.- A number of citadels are being unused to their full potential as I passed by an unoccupied Fortizar upon entering from low sec, a practically 500 billion isk investment underutilized

- Depends on the time of day. At times the major entrances are camped by twenty plus people.

- Nobody belt mines in null if they know what they are doing. Ore anoms have made belts redundant.

- Few people bother with local.

- Yes, as its nullsec and anything not made locally has to be shipped in via jump freighter not by hisec haulers working almost for free.

- Yet if you follow our handy video guides even a day one alpha can kill battleship rats.

- That's because in nullsec alliances use jump freighters to bring goods/ore from Jita and other market hubs to our own nullsec market hubs. The thing that matters is JF jumps not proximity to low sec stations, something StarTerrorPrime never managed to grasp no matter how often he was told.

- No you just need to know what you are doing. And teaching that is the point of Horde. Some people just refuse to learn because they have a grandiose self-image and like to compare themselves to literary heroes.

- No it's more like 20 billion. And the fact that Horde can afford to spam citadels around counters StarTerrorPrime's concerns for the imminent collapse of PanFams economy.

This dialogue between Pandemic Horde and one of its dissidents intriguing, though I question if his "disagreements" are legitimate since he paints this vivid portrait of a failing alliance. I commend StarTerrorPrime in his vocabulary and passion, though it is somewhat overeccentric opposed to summarizing and pointing out these "Innefficiencies" he insists on gabbing on about. I will note to keep his advice in mind while I'm in search of corporation, as to avoid the same potential error he may've encountered.

Please don't. You'll never find an alliance in the game that you'll like if you note his advice. Also, idk what he is saying about disagreements.

We tried to help you. We tried to explain to you even the base concept of supply and demand. You refused to listen and then whined about it. You even tried to get on Discord and whine to directors about how the miners were "unionizing".

You spammed your contract in 3 corp chat channels. A contract we told you was under Jita BUY. not sell like you're trying to say in your initial post. You wanted us to sell you and deliver 12M worth of minerals....(Yes this whole thing started over a 12M contract. I wish I was kidding) when it was valued at 13M just for the price of them. I explained that nobody is going to fill that contract and ship them too you, so you'd be better off mining them yourself.

....all to produce what our NBIs hand out for free. After complaining in multiple channels, Discord, and the forums you wanted to have us blue your alt corp because you didn't want to be in Horde anymore. So we laughed you off of our forums.

The problem isn't us dude. Its the fact you wouldn't accept anything we tried to teach you. We offered you the ability to prove us wrong too but you just whined about it rather than try to prove your guaranteed to fail method.

This dialogue between Pandemic Horde and one of its dissidents intriguing, though I question if his "disagreements" are legitimate since he paints this vivid portrait of a failing alliance. I commend StarTerrorPrime in his vocabulary and passion, though it is somewhat overeccentric opposed to summarizing and pointing out these "Innefficiencies" he insists on gabbing on about. I will note to keep his advice in mind while I'm in search of corporation, as to avoid the same potential error he may've encountered.

Please don't. You'll never find an alliance in the game that you'll like if you note his advice. Also, idk what he is saying about disagreements.

I had to like this. Good advice.It seems to me that the OP needs to find an corporation of like-minded Randians to argue with.

- The Claim of anti-social players seems somewhat valid as I attempted to engage the natives with little success except for Dark Lord Trump- Prices from observing the Market tool aren't as preferable to what It is potentially found elsewhere, even as an Amarrian pilot- The rats are humongous, quite literally as most I witnessed weren't any smaller than a destroyer- The Main staging system appears to be several jumps away from the nearest low sec station in order to acquire equipment

A lot of people are either AFK or too busy to chat in local.Pretty sure you only see items for sale in our citadels if you have the docking rights.There is no need to go to lowsec, our market is actually seeded quite well, albeit usually with some markup, I mean we all have to feed our space kids somehow. If anything is not available, or you just want things cheaper you can use a jumpfreighter service and get things delivered straight from Jita within 24 hours. Join Horde, people will teach you how to take out even the scary huge battleship rats with a destroyer, which even will be given to you for free.

I have entire list of things I disagree with how Pandemic Horde is ran, and pretty much have said them already:

1. No, not really... just ones that make zero sense2. Clearly you have no idea the complexity of null sov economy and what all is involved. You barely saw a fraction of a percent of it.3. As was said previously, this is for security and ease of logistics.4. Rule 1 of null is watch local/intel... if you break rule #1, your results may vary, standing fleet or no standing fleet.

6. 12,000 members can pretty much do whatever they want with the ore they mine. We don't judge...7. No one has to be dependent on any shipping company. If you don't like it, train a JF alt and haul it yourself. Once you do that, you will understand why shipping costs what it does. Jump fuel isn't exactly cheap.8. It's null... everything costs more. Live with it (or not). You don't have 50,000 bot miners running in belts 23/7 like in empire.9. Ego's... yeah some... no different than the one you have where it's beneath you to listen to anyone trying to help you.10. Wrong items for the market... learn the market before you try to sell in it.11. Gobbins is the alliance CEO. He has an entire team to help manage 12,000 members. He doesn't have time to respond to every single little issue every day. Thats how real corporations work, not some snowflake crap you read in a book.12. Your doing it wrong... period.13. Don't expect to join up, be here a week or two, with little to no PvP background and expect to try and change fleet doctrine. These guys have been doing it for years and are damned good at what they do.14. Large corp, people have RL and aren't on 23/7. Probably depended on who/what you were trying to ask or do.15. Your lack of PvP background or the fact that we cover such a broad range of member skill levels shows how little you understand when you post this comment. If you think our fleet fits suck, ask the guys that regularly get bashed by our "inefficient" fits.16. Art of war doesn't apply to internet spaceships... there was no DD's, Blops and Titan bridges in Ancient China.17. Yet again, if you don't see it, build it or seed it.

19. No one rats belts in null...20. Our space is just fine, you just don't understand the logistics of null. You want crappy space, go talk to the guys in Providence.21. Clearly you don't understand how the Sov system works, or coalitions... or much of anything null related. This isn't empire space.22. No one ever said null was 100% safe. Nothing in EVE is 100% safe, unless you dock up in empire, log off and never log back on. Then it's still not really safe. Learn that or go play WoW.23. Then don't take the handout, no one forced you to. That will save them for the new players that really want to learn and grow in this game. Which we will gladly help them in any way we can.24. Actually the higher ups work to protect everyone, however first and foremost you are required to learn how to watch out for yourself. Rorqs and other caps have enough tank to survive long enough for a response fleet to try and save them. Your little T1 frigate that you fit yourself because you refuse to use the tried and tested fits provided isn't going to last long enough to type w's in fleet chat. That's if your even in fleet or on comms.[

In this situation, I'd agree because the CCP monthly economic reports basically summarize it for me and comparing the prices of common materials like minerals between various regions just simply says it outright, as Hek had better mineral prices than Hordespace did, and that basically summarizes it, with the exception you would be able find better prices on hardware there. Most items in Hordespace were marked up above 20%< X% to nearly 100%< X , as compared to some major trade hubs and alliances markup on products versus on the cost to make them. A perfect example is the average cost to make a cruiser, say a Bellicose, would run me about say 5 mil to produce with a 7% material efficiency, and could easily flip it for about 7.5mil in Metropolis, on the other hand in the Fade and Pure Blind regions, for me to produce or even import, I would have sell at 25%< markup which is not in the ideal margins that you want to be selling any product regardless. Hell's Bells, Jita's 16% markup average on products is more reasonable than the prices i would pay in Horde Space, I mean come on, 30%<50% markup on a T1 frigate is shenanigans, even by most players standards, sure I would understand for higher tier modules and equipment but not for basic staples that a majority of your recruits would need in order to survive.

@Sakaar Sukural

Incorrect, Several miners wanted me to pay them according to Jita SELL price versus my offer of paying according to Jita Buy price which is fair price across Empire Space regardless as I've used Jita buy price before with great success in other regions. Most of them complained about a very small marginal 1% to 2% difference due to the fact that Jita's prices fluctuate based on the fact there is literally 500+ players in Jita at any given time creating buy and sell orders. If Horde Miners refuse to honor a standard Forge rate buy order contract, that is a sign that I'm not going to be able to produce anything with a 10%<15% profit margin without my expenditures exceeding my expected sale gross, a factor in which contributed to my decision in leaving Horde. Not to mention a lot of other Horde industrialists whose names I won't reveal will agree that being strongarmed into paying Jita Sell price is nonsensical and considerably a **** move. Said miners even stated they would rather ship their compressed ores to Jita because of the Sell prices, effectively outsourcing their time and labor to anyone except the alliance itself, instead of selling it locally.

This dialogue between Pandemic Horde and one of its dissidents intriguing, though I question if his "disagreements" are legitimate since he paints this vivid portrait of a failing alliance. I commend StarTerrorPrime in his vocabulary and passion, though it is somewhat overeccentric opposed to summarizing and pointing out these "Innefficiencies" he insists on gabbing on about. I will note to keep his advice in mind while I'm in search of corporation, as to avoid the same potential error he may've encountered.

Please don't. You'll never find an alliance in the game that you'll like if you note his advice. Also, idk what he is saying about disagreements.

The more the original poster speaks, the more deterred I am to placing Pandemic Horde amongst my roster of Alliance canidates unless any of those present have the evidence to refute his claims with the nessecary data. His experience shared is quite indicative of what sort of behavior I'd expect out of its alliance members, much less the responses to his expression of his dissatisfaction en lieu of a mature calculated response is disheartening. Verbally attacking him for voicing his opinions on the status of a corporation's welfare alone is childish, as both parties are entitled to their viewpoints, but the inability to treat this matter with the proper diplomacy disgusts me.

Upon reading his in-game biography, It appears a logical solution to end his tirade would to be to bribe him with something of value, as he proclaims to be a pirate. Can someone please buy his silence? It seems he intends to gain something by assualting Pandemic Horde's reputation or at least fulfill an agenda. I fear he won't cease unless he gets whatever he's after, or continue his efforts beyond this point, because the level of idiocracy on the behalf of both parties is acinine.

This dialogue between Pandemic Horde and one of its dissidents intriguing, though I question if his "disagreements" are legitimate since he paints this vivid portrait of a failing alliance. I commend StarTerrorPrime in his vocabulary and passion, though it is somewhat overeccentric opposed to summarizing and pointing out these "Innefficiencies" he insists on gabbing on about. I will note to keep his advice in mind while I'm in search of corporation, as to avoid the same potential error he may've encountered.

Please don't. You'll never find an alliance in the game that you'll like if you note his advice. Also, idk what he is saying about disagreements.

The more the original poster speaks, the more deterred I am to placing Pandemic Horde amongst my roster of Alliance canidates unless any of those present have the evidence to refute his claims with the nessecary data. His experience shared is quite indicative of what sort of behavior I'd expect out of its alliance members, much less the responses to his expression of his dissatisfaction en lieu of a mature calculated response is disheartening. Verbally attacking him for voicing his opinions on the status of a corporation's welfare alone is childish, as both parties are entitled to their viewpoints, but the inability to treat this matter with the proper diplomacy disgusts me.

Upon reading his in-game biography, It appears a logical solution to end his tirade would to be to bribe him with something of value, as he proclaims to be a pirate. Can someone please buy his silence? It seems he intends to gain something by assualting Pandemic Horde's reputation or at least fulfill an agenda. I fear he won't cease unless he gets whatever he's after, or continue his efforts beyond this point, because the level of idiocracy on the behalf of both parties is acinine.

You haven't heard our part of the story. We tried to help him, give him tips. He didn't listen. Some NBI (Newbean Initiative) the dudes thats focused on helping new players in Horde even spoke to him one on one. Giving him useful tips on how to not make money. We are not considering his ideas because he doesn't have credibility and they're all ****. Being the nature of Horde's recruitment is open for all. FCs and the people in charge on how the alliance works wont approve the plan of a 7 day character in Horde more so if that character haven't even played long enough to really know something about the game or how alliances works. Also wanting to buy ore for 60% jita buy price is just bullshit. He isnt going to build something useful out of that anyway. Welcome to the free market that most alliances in the whole game do. Also as I said before. If you take his word on looking for an alliance to join. You're going to have a bad ******* time

The more the original poster speaks, the more deterred I am to placing Pandemic Horde amongst my roster of Alliance canidates unless any of those present have the evidence to refute his claims with the nessecary data. His experience shared is quite indicative of what sort of behavior I'd expect out of its alliance members, much less the responses to his expression of his dissatisfaction en lieu of a mature calculated response is disheartening. Verbally attacking him for voicing his opinions on the status of a corporation's welfare alone is childish, as both parties are entitled to their viewpoints, but the inability to treat this matter with the proper diplomacy disgusts me.

Upon reading his in-game biography, It appears a logical solution to end his tirade would to be to bribe him with something of value, as he proclaims to be a pirate. Can someone please buy his silence? It seems he intends to gain something by assualting Pandemic Horde's reputation or at least fulfill an agenda. I fear he won't cease unless he gets whatever he's after, or continue his efforts beyond this point, because the level of idiocracy on the behalf of both parties is acinine.

I thoroughly enjoy your usage of right-click "Thesaurus" in Microsoft Word while you write this drivel. You might have at least used the spell check function as well.

If you think PanFam, or really any other alliance is going to be a place where your opinions (especially when they are categorically wrong) are taken at face value and not questioned or challenged, I think you are in for a shock when you get into the real world. Like the real world, there are no safe spaces in PanFam, and if you expect to be coddled as a special snowflake, let me save you some bad posts on our forums and simply say, "Don't bother."

HORDE helps newbros, answers their questions, gets them set up in game. HORDE does not suffer selfish pieces of **** who are too dumb to recognize when they are wrong and the majority is right. Humility will get you far in life and far in this game, lack of it will generally end with you being **** on and washed out like the shitstain you are.

Also @Rohan Alhamar, I'd hoped to enlighten you with the long evemail I sent you in response to your mail to me. I told you of the state of Horde and exactly why and how Starter is full of crap, and then I went and posted a long-ass reply to his inanity in this thread. If you continue to view Starter's points as being valid despite all the **** literally everyone in this thread is heaping on him, despite how he has been refuted time and time and time again (when people actually manage to decipher his flowery spiel to figure out what the actual hell he means), then I'm not going to spend any more time trying to convince you that Horde isn't bad at all. After all, if you really wanted to see what we're like, you can just join us and find out for yourself. We require literally nothing from our members and we don't care if you turn up with nothing but a rookie ship, so all your stuff will be safe and waiting for you where you left it if we do turn out to be unrepentant gits.

Also as for paying Starter off, lolno. He's nowhere near as big a problem to Horde a she thinks he is. This thread has been mocked in Horde comms (why do you think so many of us are here? lol) and then forgotten entirely. He's a molehill who thinks he's a mountain.

After a brief excursion into Pandemic Horde's sovereignty, I feel I understand what the original poster's complaint are, at least to what I can interpret:

My Observations:- Pandemic Horde space is indeed quite easy to walk into if you are alone, particularly with a lack of warp disruption devices, and considering I idled next to a caracal for approximately 30 seconds- His Miner issue appears to be more of an issue in regards to the systems themselves as my observations shown that there is a lack of certain materials within their belts, aside from what can be procured from Ore sites.- The Claim of anti-social players seems somewhat valid as I attempted to engage the natives with little success except for Dark Lord Trump- Prices from observing the Market tool aren't as preferable to what It is potentially found elsewhere, even as an Amarrian pilot- The rats are humongous, quite literally as most I witnessed weren't any smaller than a destroyer- The Main staging system appears to be several jumps away from the nearest low sec station in order to acquire equipment- It is rather boring in that direction unless you have the proper size classification of ship, or an accompanying fleet, to ensure its worthwhile.- A number of citadels are being unused to their full potential as I passed by an unoccupied Fortizar upon entering from low sec, a practically 500 billion isk investment underutilized

So some of the original poster's complaints possess solidarity or an underlying cause, as to be impartial towards any party involved in this thread.

- his miner issue wasn't from lack of ore available. he found it maddening that miners wouldn't sell to him at 60% below Jita

- no one reads local. how about you consider that before saying horde is anti-social when discord is active 24/7 throughout multiple channels

- the huge rats can be killed by day 1 alpha characters. horde gives these newbeans ships to rat in for free

-do you know null? everything you need can be bought in staging system. if you need something you ship it in from jita with one of our many freighter services.. not go to a lowsec station lol

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