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Sorry Frank, but 'wowed' is not my first reaction - 'disturbed' is more like it.

No ten year old should be singing Puccini, for many reasons, even if at some level they are capable of doing so. Arguably no 20 year old should be either. A sad reality in vocal training, especially in North America, is the dramatic push-down in expectations for young singers. We are playing to a culture of youth that is not only physically and emotionally inappropriate - but we are also losing the opportunity to allow singers, and musicians generally, to mature into their own voice.

As many of you on this forum know, we are a family of singers. All of my daughters have extensive vocal training - including one who is a recent BFA grad in voice, specializing in modern and early music. My youngest, I swear, came out of the womb with the voice of a 20 year old. But, vocal gifts need to be nurtured very carefully, if they are not to be damaged.

My recommendation for young singers is to find a high quality children's choir - and no private lessons until at least twelve. A good choral experience will teach them to read well, develop a good ear, learn to listen and blend, develop language pronunciation skills and allow them to be exposed to a wide variety of musical styles.

No matter how gifted a young singer is, their instrument is their body. They have a long and strenuous road in front of them to develop it properly. Please, let us give every child a chance to develop. I have seen first hand the consequences of pushing too fast, too soon and on the other hand, the rewards of patience.

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Doug

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Interesting response. Not being a singer myself (as anyone who has ever heard me will attest) I can't claim to know what is involved.

Regardless of the dangers inherent in one so young singing, it is still a "wow" factor to me that she can do it at all.

Should Mozart or Chopin's parents not have allowed them to start so young, because they might develop carpal tunnel?

I realize you are saying working too hard too young can cause more harm then good, but what if the individual really is up to the task?

I would totally agree that a child should not be pushed to quickly, but what if they themselves want to practice constantly and to learn quickly?

I recently attended a concert by a young pianist who played well beyond her years.After the concert I spoke with her parents. They said they are constantly encouraging her to go outside and play, to do something other than play the piano.And so she does play with her friends, play games, etc. But she also practices constantly because she loves to play.

Believe you me, I am not suggesting we not celebrate excellence, my concern is that what we are really noticing is the context; what is specifically remarkable here is the age of the singer. I suppose it is never possible to completely separate the ‘who’ from the ‘what’ – but there is a circus element to these types of situations that really makes me feel uneasy, especially when what we are witnessing is a child mimicking an adult. There is a bit of a Susan Boyle feel to this that I think has elements that should make us stop and consider how respectful we are really being.

While I believe in nurturing our children's talents, we also need to be alert to unhealthy obsessive or compulsive behaviour, no matter what the nature of the activity is. Glen Gould’s parents restricted the amount of time he was allowed to play the piano. And there are physiological reasons why we should be cautious with young children’s voices, no matter what their apparent capabilities are.

I would define success as living a fulfilling life, but I think there is a lot of pressure on children to achieve ‘elite’ levels of success that works against developing well-rounded adults. This is one factor that I think is working against piano education – we only continue to work at something if, when measured against others, we see ourselves as ‘successful’ - instead of being focused on what is fulfilling to our own selves.

Roger

I’m not sure I understand your “sour grapes” comment, and I apologize if I am coming across as condescending – but I genuinely do not believe it is healthy for a ten year old to be singing Puccini and don’t see it as interfering to say so, especially if you choose to put your child on national television.

I don’t want to come across as completely negative – after all any time classical music intrudes into popular culture it can’t be all bad.

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Doug

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

While I believe in nurturing our children's talents, we also need to be alert to unhealthy obsessive or compulsive behaviour, no matter what the nature of the activity is. Glen Gould’s parents restricted the amount of time he was allowed to play the piano. And there are physiological reasons why we should be cautious with young children’s voices, no matter what their apparent capabilities are.

I would define success as living a fulfilling life, but I think there is a lot of pressure on children to achieve ‘elite’ levels of success that works against developing well-rounded adults. This is one factor that I think is working against piano education – we only continue to work at something if, when measured against others, we see ourselves as ‘successful’ - instead of being focused on what is fulfilling to our own selves.

Hi Doug, as one who worked for a local youth chorus for a few years I know exactly what you're talking about. Also a father to a 20 year old son who has always been a singer I have personal experience with the syndrome. At the youth chorus we always cautioned parents who asked about voice lessons that it was important to allow the voice to at least reach puberty without the unnatural stress that singing entails.

Yet my own son would not be denied and he was going to sing whether we wanted him to or not. So we got him lessons in order to help him protect his voice from developing bad habits. Just as self taught pianists often develop bad habits singers can too. At the youth chorus we selected carefully for teachers who taught good technique and had the respect of their peers and the school vocal music teachers. One can only do so much and some children will latch onto something and do it to the fullest extent they can.

With regard to the 10 year old on AGT, I didn't hear any reediness in her vocal quality (something I did hear in the young Charlotte Church). Frankly I was initially convinced she was lip synching until I heard the plosivess (or pops) from the mic in the playback of the segment on Youtube this morning. That's something that would never be allowed to get through a studio recording. So she really did sing and she sounded incredibly good for one so young. More important she seemed relaxed and her voice seemed well supported. Your cautions are well founded and I would hope her teacher is aware of the dangers of pushing a young voice. I hope these concerns are raised sufficiently that they get back to her, her teacher and her parents. The only one who can really know of her voice is being stressed is that little girl herself. She's been blessed with an incredible instrument and I hope she cares for it well.

OK, fair enough. In my 'admittedly simplistic' mind, I just saw a cute young girl doing an amazing job of singing a very nice song (piece?). My comment about sour grapes was my feeling that the criticisms might have to do with envy rather than real concern.

I can't sing a lick, I never heard the music and I've never been, nor have I ever been associated with any highly skilled prodigys, whatever they are.

I don't have the perspective that allows me to see any of the down side of these situations. Your experiences certainly make sense and I can view it with a different outlook.

Nevertheless, her singing ability still amazes me and I enjoyed her rendition of what ever the heck she was singing. :-)

Edited by Roger Ransom (08/12/1006:25 PM)Edit Reason: usual array of typos, there may be more lurking.

SCCDoug: This kid strikes me as being a bit more balanced than Glen Gould. I love Gould and have his 1955 and 1981 Goldberg Variations, but I'm sure his parents had to limit his practicing for a variety of reasons.

We are all better for Glen Gould's life but he was an anguished guy to say the least, probably Asperger's in a pronounced form but I wasn't his shrink. This child's parents probably don't have to prompt her to go to slumber parties.

ATMy concern is with the appropriateness of the material she is performing - I don't think the child prodigy aspect is the central issue. She is clearly a talented girl, able to produce a big sound, good pitch and an excellent ear. Puccini, like Wagner or some Strauss, is considered 'big' opera, and consequently requires a powerful sound in order to project over top of Puccini sized orchestra and chorus. There is a stigma against performing these types of arias if you are not physically capable of doing them in the opera setting. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I do think that if you want to perform a Puccini aria as a solo at a young age you should use your natural voice, instead of mimicking a large operatic sound. She sounds much better, to me, when practicing at home then when she was singing 'O mio babbino caro' because it was her natural sound. She has a number of disquieting vocal habits that are, I believe, because she is singing material beyond her age and ability. For example, I think she needs to let her vibrato develop naturally rather than using her jaw - and I think most voice teachers would agree. The song she is singing is by a 17 year old who is begging her father to be with her lover, or else she will kill herself. Just one more aspect of the whole situation that makes me feel uneasy.

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Doug

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss