ok folks, here's a thought. Let's not get outraged or flustered about these stories. Instead, I suggest we collect, collate and compile all these little stories so that when these guys come up for re-election we have something to tell their voters.

Weaver95:ok folks, here's a thought. Let's not get outraged or flustered about these stories. Instead, I suggest we collect, collate and compile all these little stories so that when these guys come up for re-election we have something to tell their voters.

Yeah, that will work.

Just promise to be pro life/pro death penalty, and they will vote for you no matter what you do.

Weaver95:Instead, I suggest we collect, collate and compile all these little stories so that when these guys come up for re-election we have something to tell their voters.

If voters listened to reason, paid attention to history (i.e. the history of the candidates they vote for), and were swayed more by facts than by appeals to emotion, I suspect we wouldn't be in this situation.

So, while I think it is an admirable idea, I have my misgivings about how well it would work. All the candidates have to do is (continue to) push the right emotional buttons, and all of the facts you gather will be for naught. :(

Vindibudd:I love it how stalling and being obstructionist is such an admirable trait when Democrats do it (new window), but holy god, how dare the Republicans ever do anything similar.

And you don't get the irony of the reverse?

It is impossible to take the moral high ground if you do not actually occupy that territory first.

And, for the record, you can't wrap yourself in the flag and then play these games either. I do hope that folks remember this incident come primary time to get a better Republican into the slot. And by better, I mean someone who actually thinks about the whole Republic, as opposed to putting corporate profits before our troops and citizens.

Just pointing out that people need to be outraged when both sides do it. Otherwise, be happy with the hypocrite label.

Look, here's the real problem. Democrats after years of biatching about reconciliation and partisanship gave Republicans the finger and used both to ram this healthcare bill down our (the peoples') throats. So turnabout is fair play. I know that payback is a biatch but I don't think anyone on the conservative side is really all that pissed off. You can't biatch about rules and protocols when you are going to throw them out the window to get your way. These are the consequences for the Democrats.

hubiestubert:Vindibudd: I love it how stalling and being obstructionist is such an admirable trait when Democrats do it (new window), but holy god, how dare the Republicans ever do anything similar.

And you don't get the irony of the reverse?

It is impossible to take the moral high ground if you do not actually occupy that territory first.

Yes, go figure that. The Democrats hold that territory? When did that happen? When they filibustered judicial nominations for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY? Is that the high ground? And when Republicans thought about but ultimately did not go reconciliation? That kind of territory?

Vindibudd:I love it how stalling and being obstructionist is such an admirable trait when Democrats do it (new window), but holy god, how dare the Republicans ever do anything similar.

You certainly picked an interesting case to demonstrate Democratic "obstructionism." Pickering was appointed by Bush to the 5th Court of Appeals as a recess appointment, and served there for nearly a year. Read up on his qualifications, or lack thereof, and you can see why he eventually decided to retire.

I know you will not bother to read through this, but anyone who does will see that talking about Democratic obstructionism in terms of court appointments is ludicrous, if not downright deceitful.

How's about some instances of times when the Democrats voted unanimously to block something a Republican president proposed? Preferably something post-Civil War.

Vindibudd:Yes, go figure that. The Democrats hold that territory? When did that happen? When they filibustered judicial nominations for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY? Is that the high ground? And when Republicans thought about but ultimately did not go reconciliation? That kind of territory?

so, ok. lets assume for a moment that you really are upset that 'both sides' are 'bad'. you've given us a lot of material covering the sins of the democratic party. What do you think the Republicans have done wrong?

Vindibudd:hubiestubert: Vindibudd: I love it how stalling and being obstructionist is such an admirable trait when Democrats do it (new window), but holy god, how dare the Republicans ever do anything similar.

And you don't get the irony of the reverse?

It is impossible to take the moral high ground if you do not actually occupy that territory first.

Yes, go figure that. The Democrats hold that territory? When did that happen? When they filibustered judicial nominations for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY? Is that the high ground? And when Republicans thought about but ultimately did not go reconciliation? That kind of territory?

I was thinking campaigning on the importance of our military, and then using them as a tool for a tantrum. Democrats are at least not campaigning on those very issues, and then tossing them out when it is convenient.

I am hardly a fan of the Democrats, but this obstructionism for the sake of being obstructionist has got to end. The GOP needs to have a cohesive agenda beyond "NO!"

Weaver95:Vindibudd:Yes, go figure that. The Democrats hold that territory? When did that happen? When they filibustered judicial nominations for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY? Is that the high ground? And when Republicans thought about but ultimately did not go reconciliation? That kind of territory?

so, ok. lets assume for a moment that you really are upset that 'both sides' are 'bad'. you've given us a lot of material covering the sins of the democratic party. What do you think the Republicans have done wrong?

How about you come up with a list since I am busy arguing with every other liberal on this board. I'll tell you if I agree.

Vindibudd:How about you come up with a list since I am busy arguing with every other liberal on this board. I'll tell you if I agree.

let's try this again.

in this post you said:Vindibudd [TotalFark] Quote 2010-03-24 11:12:10 PM

Just pointing out that people need to be outraged when both sides do it. Otherwise, be happy with the hypocrite label.

Then you listed several things that you believe illustrate why the Democrats are bad.

My question to you is simple - if you believe that 'both sides are bad' then you MUST list what the Republicans have done wrong. If you do not/cannot list what the Republicans have done wrong, then your first statement is a lie.

GAT_00:justbob2000: When is the GOP going to figure out that stomping your feet and throwing a tantrum because you did not get your way makes them look like spoiled 3rd graders?

Well, there remains absolutely nothing in the main media outlets calling them on it, so I'm thinking they're going to keep it up for a while.

That's the real problem. Look at the main page on any news site and it's completely ignoring the magnitude of the Republican party and their libertarian friends' actions. MSNBC's main story is about fat Chinese people. CNN has a story about pot. The media never calls out Republicans and conservatives on their retarded antics.

Vindibudd:Oh, let me point out (everyone that is choosing to engage me here) that I can spend another 20 minutes on this thread as of 11:20 pm est. Just so you think I am not just running away randomly.

Vindibudd:Yes, go figure that. The Democrats hold that territory? When did that happen? When they filibustered judicial nominations for the FIRST TIME IN HISTORY? Is that the high ground? And when Republicans thought about but ultimately did not go reconciliation? That kind of territory?

[Citation needed.] Are you talking about the filibuster of Lyndon Johnson's appointment of Abe Fortas to be Chief Justice in 1968? If you have some earlier example, please trot it out.

7of7:The media never calls out Republicans and conservatives on their retarded antics.

There's a reason for this. Access. You don't play along with the GOP, they shut you out. Bushco's attitude toward the WH journalist pool is a perfect example. Not that I'd encourage the Dems to race the GOP to the bottom, but you don't see that same behavior out of them.

Weaver95:Vindibudd: How about you come up with a list since I am busy arguing with every other liberal on this board. I'll tell you if I agree.

let's try this again.

in this post you said:Vindibudd [TotalFark] Quote 2010-03-24 11:12:10 PM

Just pointing out that people need to be outraged when both sides do it. Otherwise, be happy with the hypocrite label.

Then you listed several things that you believe illustrate why the Democrats are bad.

My question to you is simple - if you believe that 'both sides are bad' then you MUST list what the Republicans have done wrong. If you do not/cannot list what the Republicans have done wrong, then your first statement is a lie.

put up or shut up time dude.

Well you mentioned the whole You Lie thing, and I mentioned the Boxer thing, and you are cheerleading this whole Republicans are idiots for obstructing things and I pointed out that Democrats did the same thing when it came to judges.

So like I said, I am dealing with at least 3 other people besides yourself. I know you love me, but I can't just commit only to you man, I have to see other people too. Oh, here's a bone, I think Michael Savage is a jerk and O'Reilly isn't that much better. I also don't think it was appropriate for Dick Cheney to drop an f-bomb on the Senate floor or for Newt to call Hillary a biatch to his mother.

Is that enough for you? I hate to leave after this hot hot encounter but I have others in my little black book.

Weaver95:Vindibudd: How about you come up with a list since I am busy arguing with every other liberal on this board. I'll tell you if I agree.

let's try this again.

in this post you said:Vindibudd [TotalFark] Quote 2010-03-24 11:12:10 PM

Just pointing out that people need to be outraged when both sides do it. Otherwise, be happy with the hypocrite label.

Then you listed several things that you believe illustrate why the Democrats are bad.

My question to you is simple - if you believe that 'both sides are bad' then you MUST list what the Republicans have done wrong. If you do not/cannot list what the Republicans have done wrong, then your first statement is a lie.

put up or shut up time dude.

If anything, we need to be harder on our own, than the Democrats or others, to keep them honest. That's the problem with partisan cheerleading. It doesn't keep anyone honest, and it only means that idiots and panderers get into office.

We've allowed a fair share of idiots not just into the Big Tent, but to actually represent us. And it's time for us to call them onto the carpet, and get the agenda focused back on the country, as opposed to only select neighborhoods, select populations, and only select faiths.

hubiestubert:We've allowed a fair share of idiots not just into the Big Tent, but to actually represent us. And it's time for us to call them onto the carpet, and get the agenda focused back on the country, as opposed to only select neighborhoods, select populations, and only select faiths.

The corporatists that hold the purse strings won't let you. And they'll bring the whole country down in flames before they'll relinquish power. They already held a gun to the economy and won. There's no coming back from that.