Unfortunately for those complaining here, Apple doesn't think that the antenna issue is a defect, so those trying to return because of the antenna issues may have to pay the 10% restocking fee.

Again, please cite the Apple corporate statement that says this. Email's from Steve Jobs are not considered valid proof. If you cannot provide a link on Apple's website or an Apple spokesperson who is on the record, please do not say that.

I don't know if a large percentage is affected. But it appears this issue is affecting people more then normal.

Based on what evidence?

"more than normal" implies that you have some numbers, both for number of defects on this phone and number of defects that would be normal. Where are the numbers?

Granted, this issues seems to be generating more of the anti-Apple FUD than most issues, but that's mostly because Chicken Littles are running round screaming that the sky is falling. Feel free to provide evidence if you ever find any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by g3pro

Apple says that the customers complaining of antenna problems are using non-defective phones.

Thus, they are forced to pay the 10% restocking fee.

So your point is simply that you were unable to prove that there was anything wrong with the phone?

If your phone is dropping calls when you hold it normally, I can't believe that any Apple store manager would refuse a refund.

In reality, what's probably happening is people who come in and say their phone is defective and point to a changing number of bars. The manager says "yes, that's a known problem, but it has no effect on call reliability. Show me that your phone doesn't make calls properly and I'll replace the phone" --- and then the customer slinks away.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

These phone will break when dropped no matter what apple states. The cases also gets rid of the problem anyway.

Erm that's not true. Some will break not all.

On Tuesday night I put my iPhone 4 on top of a small box which was also on top of my fireplace. Whilst I was reading AppleInsider from my MBP I could hear emails and texts coming through on my iP4. About two hours later I heard something fall from the fireplace and looked in horror at my iP4 face down on the Marble hearth. The vibrations clearly made it unstable.

The fireplace is 4 feet plus high and as you know Marble is very hard and brittle. Flick a bit of marble at a window and watch it shatter.

Not a scratch or dent. Lucky perhaps but certainly opened my eyes to how tough this bad boy really is.

Honestly these rumours going around at how fragile the iPhone is are suspect to say the least. Go from experience, not from rumour.

By the way my Nokia screen exploded into a million pieces when it fell out of my pocket from less than two feet when isat in my car. Landed on concrete and went in the bin immediatelt after. Unlucky?

A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...

I contend that this is what the board is for. I would rather that instead of everyone trying to attack and prove the others wrong, we just state our opinion. My experience here is that most folks are pretty intelligent and are looking for the experiences of others.

Unfortunately, what you were told does not jive with the written Apple retail policy.

The written policy states that you are charged a restocking fee if the product is not "defective." Unfortunately for those complaining here, Apple doesn't think that the antenna issue is a defect, so those trying to return because of the antenna issues may have to pay the 10% restocking fee.

I just called the store (Raleigh, NC) to check. The gentleman I spoke with said usually Apple charges a restocking fee for most products but because of their agreement with AT&T, they do not charge anything for an iPhone returned within 30 days for any reason.

Or, you could buy any of the other iPhone cases out there. I got one from Belkin. However, most of those are $25-30, too. Companies get away with charging a lot for decorative accessories for expensive electronics. Story at 10.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

I just called the store (Raleigh, NC) to check. The gentleman I spoke with said usually Apple charges a restocking fee for most products but because of their agreement with AT&T, they do not charge anything for an iPhone returned within 30 days for any reason.

Again, this isn't written in any policy. All written policies state that a restocking fee is charged for any non-defective items.

I just got off the phone with someone at the Apple Fifth Ave. store in New York as well. She said there is no restocking fee under the open box policy because the phone has to be opened in the store for activation, thus the customer can't be faulted for opening the box. She said plainly: return within 30 days for a full refund for any reason with no charges whatsoever.

I'd be willing to bet that the bulk of those people not experiencing any problems are right-handed.

Your logic is wrong. I'm right handed, but I hold the phone in my left hand. In fact, I watched people today and most of the right handed people I know hold their cell phones in their left hand. So much for that argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_JT

The thing that most people seem to leave out when talking about this antenna issue is that it affects left handed people only. The left side antenna needs to be held in the hand (not even gripped with any real purposeful intent). If you are right handed, you are covering the right antenna, Something like 90% of iPhone 4 users will be right handed, so if 1.7 millions were sold then say 170,000 would be experiencing the problem. Just theoretical stats to make a point, ok? Point being, most users will be satisfied because this issue will not affect 'them'.

First, there's no evidence that ANYONE is experiencing a disproportionate amount of dropped calls due to the antenna. That's just all the whining you here.

Second, it doesn't matter if the person is right handed or left handed. If they hold the phone in their left hand, they should have the problem - no matter which hand is dominant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_JT

I really wish people would stop apologising for Apple. I absolutely love there products but stop sucking there corporate cock. I am forced to buy a case rather than show off the phone for what it is (it won't be Apple's case) or return it (I do not want to, it is a beautiful device which I love, all I ask for is a working PHONE for LEFT HANDED people).

No one's apologizing for Apple - they are simply asking for facts rather than hysteria.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince_JT

I agree with the US law suit as it may speed Apple into addressing the design flaw sooner than later and we could see corrected phone's for UNIVERSAL use, not just 90% of users who can comfortably hold the phone right-handed. Again, please stop apologising for Apple. I have stated I own an iP4, that I am left handed, and the issue is VERY evident. No other phone I have ever owned including the 3GS has ever negated left hand use in this way.

I felt compelled to register to comment on this on account of some truely disgraceful sucking-up posts doing the rounds in support of Apple. Get a grip! Or in the case of iP4, don't! (if you're left-handed)

Maybe you should spend your energy collecting real data instead of whining about injustice. At this point, there's plenty of evidence that a lot of phone experience a reduction in bars - and Apple has said that a software fix will be out for that. There is no valid evidence that dropped calls are a widespread problem. So where's the evidence for the design flaw that you keep imagining?

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

I just got off the phone with someone at the Apple Fifth Ave. store in New York as well. She said there is no restocking fee under the open box policy because the phone has to be opened in the store for activation, thus the customer can't be faulted for opening the box. She said plainly: return within 30 days for a full refund for any reason with no charges whatsoever.

Cool, so that means you can totally trash the phone and still get a full refund!

Thanks for trolling, you've brightened my day.

Fragmentation is not just something we have to acknowledge and accept. Fragmentation is something that we deal with every day, and we must accept it as a fact of the iPhone platform experience.

I just got off the phone with someone at the Apple Fifth Ave. store in New York as well. She said there is no restocking fee under the open box policy because the phone has to be opened in the store for activation, thus the customer can't be faulted for opening the box. She said plainly: return within 30 days for a full refund for any reason with no charges whatsoever.

Sounds like each store has a different "reason" for making an exception for the iPhone 4. Unfortunately, none of these exceptions are written policy, so Apple is free to change this at any time.

In the legal world, we call this a wrong that is capable of repetition yet evading review.

Not sure how a software patch will resolve the problem, seems it is a hardware, or physical part of the phone, which reacts when 'touched', bit like touching an indoor aerial on your TV makes the picture go snowy.

It sound like a material problem, conductive.

Maybe the handset will have to be trashed and remade with alternative materials. The iPhone 4 is this year's puck mouse !

At the end of the day, you don't know enough about the device or the issue to make these kinds of statements.

I certainly don't, hence I stay away from making comments in absolutes. I am also OK to give Apple a couple of weeks to sort this out (which they will). IMO, this would also be the appropriate course of action before any lawsuit even makes sense...

This is clearly a bigger PR issue for Apple, albeit not as dramatic as many like to make it out to be.

I had every iPhone made to date and think this one is by far the the most significant upgrade to date. Personally, I find the thought of canceling an iPhone 4 contract over spending £30 for a bumper just plain silly (if that is what your girlfriend is really doing).

The iPhone4 offers too many features and benefits over any other phone in the market, including the iPhone 3GS to just give that up over a few bucks.

Who cares? If the phone is defective, there's no charge. If it's not defective, a restocking fee is reasonable.

The only issue is that you have to be able to prove that you have a defective phone. It's in your court.

Look, no one throws down 200+ dollars and signs a 2 year contract to get a phone that they want to complain about. Complaints are coming from genuine iPhone 4 owners. You wouldn't get this kind of publicity for a problem that isn't really a problem.

I fully admit that I haven't bought an iPhone 4 yet. I missed the pre-order phase, and wasn't able to camp out for one on launch day. After hearing about these rumors, I went to the Apple store and tested 12 different phones, holding them in the way which I felt was most natural (and the way in which I hold my 3GS). It yielded similar results. I didn't test calls, but it definitely did slow down data speeds.

You know, as much as I'd hate to be one of those with a problematic iPhone 4, I do think all this class action lawsuit stuff is a tad opportunistic being only a week into the launch. I'm sure by now Apple has its engineers looking into this, but, come on people, it's going to take a little longer than a few days to determine the true nature of the problem along with a possible fix or remedy.

If you are still able to return the phone, how can you claim damages from Apple? I don't understand that. But I do understand people being pissed off that their new phone can't make calls when they hold it.

Here's a good story about all the various class action lawsuits being started...

This will need to be addressed soon by Apple, one way or another. It is a serious issue, seemingly affecting a fair number of people (including me).

Returning, while fine in principle, is not a painless process. It involves time, a restocking fee, a replacement that could be prone to the same issues, ATT-related contract hassles, etc. Apple will have to address those issues as well.

As a shareholder too, I don't like this.

I also agree. As a shareholder I am a bit disappointed with the way the company has been responding. But not too much concerned about the stock price at it will recover. I have the reception issue if I hold the phone natural way. Now I hold my phone the "Right Way" as per Apple and it just doesn't feel comfortable in my hand. I am even afraid that I might drop the phone and in couple of occasions I almost did.

In any case, people have suggested simple solutions! Use some coating or put small paper over the band, etc. If those approach work, Apple can easily manufacture a little sticker and have them available from Apple Store or AT&T or BestBuy. Just like those stoppers that Toyota put on the pedals in Prius.

Steve - Don't drag it! You have a very fine device and you have geniuses working there. Come up with a creative after-market solution and get the ball rolling.

I did not say that some right hand people can't hold the phone in there left hand. Where did I say that? If they do then they'd be f***ked too. What is your point exactly? If right handed people hold the phone in there left hand then there are potentially 'more'affected users than just left handers like me. Don't tell me about collecting real data. I am using a real phone with real world use. It is a REAL problem. Try harder.

I have an iPhone 4 and it works better than my iPhone 3. Anand also reported that the iPhone 4 works better than the iPhone 3GS. So by your logic, people having a problem are in the minority.

FACTS are not the same as anecdotal whining. How many calls did you drop? How many calls did you drop with a different phone on the same network at the same time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by freddych

Look, no one throws down 200+ dollars and signs a 2 year contract to get a phone that they want to complain about. Complaints are coming from genuine iPhone 4 owners. You wouldn't get this kind of publicity for a problem that isn't really a problem.

I fully admit that I haven't bought an iPhone 4 yet..

ROTFLMAO. So the only people complaining are people who have bought the phone -- EXCEPT for people like you who haven't bought it but are still complaining. You couldn't have contradicted yourself more fully if you had tried.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyle76

Here's mine with the base of my palm over the gap between the antenna. Seconds later, with my palm removed, I was at 5 bars.

No one denies that the number of bars can change. The issue is whether there are dropped calls. Most reports say that while the number of bars changes, the iPhone 4 does a better job of making calls than previous phones.

Your drop in the number of bars is completely meaningless if there's no impact on your ability to make calls.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Your drop in the number of bars is completely meaningless if there's no impact on your ability to make calls.

I agree. However, in several locations where I normally have 5 bars, I have had the signal drop all the way down to "No Signal" -- at which point I am unable to make a call. I find that meaningful. I'm not here to trash Apple, but the problem is real and separate from the normal signal attenuation that all phones suffer. I'll keep the phone because I like it and I can hold it in a way that doesn't constitute a death grip with little inconvenience to me.

I took my ip4 down to the Apple store in Palo Alto (yes, the one Jobs visited on the first day of sales). I could not duplicate the constant problem with reception there, and was annoyed they said they could not help me on an Apple warranty issue, but that I would have to return to ATT to resolve it, since I bought it from them - oh well).

ATT will (after much browbeating) take back my phone next week (as soon as I re-buy a 3GS phone on Ebay, since I had sold mine the week before, so I can re-activate my original ATT contract). Interesting that I could not duplicate the problem there either (because of a strong 3G signal, I surmise), but going one block away allowed me to get the same dropped internet 3G downloading and dropped calls as before.

I will be awaiting the FIRMWARE or HARDWARE upgrade of the phone, because it is a remarkable phone, but will not be stuck with this model, since I cannot depend on Jobs to do the right thing (apparently), and assure me I will get a replacement, if I go beyond the 30 days I have to return it - bottom line, I will be back to 3GS until, or if, Apple makes a suitable replacement that works, without all the bumper/handheld/skin conductivity BS that seems to pass for an excuse to hold onto the current "prototype" model.

Wish I hadn't been subjected to this as a guinea pig of sorts, but can see that mistakes were made (and perhaps not by design - hey sh*t happens).

...and was annoyed they said they could not help me on an Apple warranty issue, but that I would have to return to ATT to resolve it, since I bought it from them - oh well).

Just to be clear, you are annoyed at having an issue in general, not because you can't buy a product from one store and return it to another store for a full refund using the reciept from a separately owned business simply because they carry the same product, right?

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Just to be clear, you are annoyed at having an issue in general, not because you can't buy a product from one store and return it to another store for a full refund using the reciept from a separately owned business simply because they carry the same product, right?

Not entirely - I just thought that Apple should be more willing to offer a solution, but they weren't even interested in talking to me, even though I had bought one of their Apple care warranty agreements. I then realized that they were correct in steering me back to ATT, since the original 30 days was in effect, after which you will find that ATT will not deal with it, and will send you to the Apple store for warranty issues. I accept their explanation, but It is a question of customer courtesy, since, after all, Apple derived a significant portion of my purchase money, and I was treated as if I didn't know what I was talking about. At least at ATT, they didn't even question my reception issues, but were trying to get out of refunding the Apple care agreement, even though they sold it to me. This is a typical "not my problem" issue. At least I was able to get squeaky on the wheel, and persevered with ATT until they agreed to do the right thing.

(since I am a first time poster here, some may wish to know my background, which started out in engineering in college, wound up in business, research and University teaching. Retired Army reserve colonel and Navy Fleet adviser, and now am an Optometrist, practicing in Palo Alto, CA. and have been a happy iPhone user, up until now, and have purchased several Macs for my son, who is in the audio engineering and recording field).

I have enjoyed reading in this forum, and look forward to contributing my 2 cents from time to time.

Not entirely - I just thought that Apple should be more willing to offer a solution, but they weren't even interested in talking to me, even though I had bought one of their Apple care warranty agreements. I then realized that they were correct in steering me back to ATT, since the original 30 days was in effect, after which you will find that ATT will not deal with it, and will send you to the Apple store for warranty issues. I accept their explanation, but It is a question of customer courtesy, since, after all, Apple derived a significant portion of my purchase money, and I was treated as if I didn't know what I was talking about. At least at ATT, they didn't even question my reception issues, but were trying to get out of refunding the Apple care agreement, even though they sold it to me. This is a typical "not my problem" issue. At least I was able to get squeaky on the wheel, and persevered with ATT until they agreed to do the right thing.

(since I am a first time poster here, my background is in engineering and business, research and University teaching, and now am an Optometrist, practicing in Palo Alto, CA. Am a happy iPhone user, up until now, and have purchased several Macs for my son, who is in the audio engineering and recording field).

I much enjoy this forum, and look forward to contributing my 2 cents to an excellent resource.

Welcome to the forum. This is one of my favorite forums even though it's not as technical as some (since they cover business aspects quite a bit) it's usually the most mature and well rounded.

It's definitely shitty that they were trying not to refund the AppleCare you bought with the product, and it's good you persisted. At least you didn't buy it at BestBuy where screwing the customer is part of their training. I wouldn't be surprised if they accepted returns if you also bought a Bumper because otherwise you wouldn't have a bumper-to-bumper warranty (wow, that one was really bad).

But the conclusion is they refunded you every last penny and canceled that contract because of the reception issue?

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

HOT!! Love that case design. But, wow, pricey!!! $80 for a strip of formed aluminum?? But, it does look slick on the iPhone 4. I love this part of the product description:

Quote:

The inside of the Vapor case is lined with a very high tech shock absorbing material that reduces the G-forges of an impact. It also creates a non-conductive barrier to help maintain the iPhone's antenna signal strength.

Suddenly Apple's faulty antenna becomes a selling feature for case manufacturers! Maybe this was the goal all along.