That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts....

AKA, farm it out to slave labor in China. Brilliant! High end gear at "low" prices for those of us who don't care how we get our discounts.

That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry. Not saying I personally agree with the policy, at least in so much as the working conditions and pay are, from what I understand, mostly pretty horrible, unsafe, and they are paid almost nothing. Not saying it has to be up to US standards of pay (depending on local costs of living & such), but they really should be safe and have some decent pay.

I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.

That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts....

AKA, farm it out to slave labor in China. Brilliant! High end gear at "low" prices for those of us who don't care how we get our discounts.

That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry. Not saying I personally agree with the policy, at least in so much as the working conditions and pay are, from what I understand, mostly pretty horrible, unsafe, and they are paid almost nothing. Not saying it has to be up to US standards of pay (depending on local costs of living & such), but they really should be safe and have some decent pay.

I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.

Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

If that's true then Canon will be making a killing on the 5D Mark III's current price.

Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

If that's true then Canon will be making a killing on the 5D Mark III's current price.

Well. then this says a lot about the 5D2 users who stay on hold by now. Well, uh maybe I'll wait it out then as well...as long as my 30D is nicely clicking...Pricetag is unlikely to come down...and three to four years from now...they cannot rely on the same sensor tech. If that is true, Canon could have kept the 5D3 at 3k...but somehow they gotta get their R&D investement back for the 1Dx ... P.S.: Just wonder what sensor tech will be included in the rumored high MP count body!

One thing i got out of that video that I can use on the 5d3... in the menu system, he said to jump from one tabbed menu to the other without going through each submenu, pressing the q button jumps you over... I'm sure it was somewhere in the monstrous 5d3 manual, but i either overlooked it looking for meatier tidbits of information or missed it alltogether... anywho it works for the 5d3 as well. I was getting tired going through every submenu to get to the next tab in the menu...

That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts....

AKA, farm it out to slave labor in China. Brilliant! High end gear at "low" prices for those of us who don't care how we get our discounts.

That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry. Not saying I personally agree with the policy, at least in so much as the working conditions and pay are, from what I understand, mostly pretty horrible, unsafe, and they are paid almost nothing. Not saying it has to be up to US standards of pay (depending on local costs of living & such), but they really should be safe and have some decent pay.

I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.

China is a huge country with a massive population. And while I believe that what you're saying about your experience with local factories where you live China is true, I also think you are whitewashing (inadvertently perhaps) what is a VERY large problem with the Chinese manufacturing system as a whole.

It doesn't take much time to do a Google search and cull a whole lot of information about labor conditions in China. The NYTimes blog posting below is a fairly "lightweight" exposé compared to other articles/reports I've read.

Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro

There's another aspect to the sensor performance in the 1DX and that is if the improved picture quality isn't due to just a better JPEG noise elimination algorithm then that quite clearly Canon can deliver a better sensor than what is in the 5D Mark III.

One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

If that's true then Canon will be making a killing on the 5D Mark III's current price.

Yeah, although to be fair, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so a semi-insider may have a view or assemble some bits of info in ways that in the end are actually distorted from reality.

I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.

If by "troll" you were referring to me, well, helpful, I am no troll. My "China" post was in response to someone who suggested that since "all manufacturers" are outsourcing to a low wage, and sometimes abused workforce, that that is somehow OK--because we, the more privileged, reap the benefits by getting discounts on electronic gear (including cameras). And that relates to the 5DM3 references in this thread that wax on about "value" in relation to bells and whistles. "Why should I have to pay $XXX more for something that is only 'marginally' better than the last version...?" Why? Because the price of EVERYTHING has gone up CONSIDERABLY over the past 4 years since the 5D2 was released. That the price went up for the next iteration reflects economic reality. For me, the "marginal" improvements to the 5DM3 are well worth the extra cost. And, personally, I'm not interested in saving a few bucks off someone else's hardship--aka, the underpaid and overworked laborers of the world.

As an aside to the 5DM3 price bemoaners (and to trollishly belabor the point even more):

I put new tires on my car earlier this week. The last time I replaced the tires on the car was 4 years ago. I went to the same local tire shop both times. The tires I bought were the identical brand and model that I bought 4 years ago. Same tires, same shop. The difference... PRICE! 4 years ago they cost $610 (mounting, balancing and tax included). This time I paid $750--ON SALE! Now one might say, "You got gouged because there were no improvements. Why pay more?" But I say that's how much prices for my particular tire brand and model have increased over the past 4 years. I say that with confidence because I know the people at the tire shop. Been going there for years and they have ALWAYS done me right--actually they have quite a stellar business reputation in general.

So my point is that the Mark II's original $2700 price tag compared to the Mark III's $3500 price tag is more or less right in line with general price increases for almost EVERYTHING over the past 4 years. That the Mark III actually has notable improvements over the Mark II makes the price increase seem even more reasonable to me.

I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.

If by "troll" you were referring to me, well, helpful, I am no troll. My "China" post was in response to someone who suggested that since "all manufacturers" are outsourcing to a low wage, and sometimes abused workforce, that that is somehow OK--because we, the more privileged, reap the benefits by getting discounts on electronic gear (including cameras). And that relates to the 5DM3 references in this thread that wax on about "value" in relation to bells and whistles. "Why should I have to pay $XXX more for something that is only 'marginally' better than the last version...?" Why? Because the price of EVERYTHING has gone up CONSIDERABLY over the past 4 years since the 5D2 was released. That the price went up for the next iteration reflects economic reality. For me, the "marginal" improvements to the 5DM3 are well worth the extra cost. And, personally, I'm not interested in saving a few bucks off someone else's hardship--aka, the underpaid and overworked laborers of the world.

As an aside to the 5DM3 price bemoaners (and to trollishly belabor the point even more):

I put new tires on my car earlier this week. The last time I replaced the tires on the car was 4 years ago. I went to the same local tire shop both times. The tires I bought were the identical brand and model that I bought 4 years ago. Same tires, same shop. The difference... PRICE! 4 years ago they cost $610 (mounting, balancing and tax included). This time I paid $750--ON SALE! Now one might say, "You got gouged because there were no improvements. Why pay more?" But I say that's how much prices for my particular tire brand and model have increased over the past 4 years. I say that with confidence because I know the people at the tire shop. Been going there for years and they have ALWAYS done me right--actually they have quite a stellar business reputation in general.

So my point is that the Mark II's original $2700 price tag compared to the Mark III's $3500 price tag is more or less right in line with general price increases for almost EVERYTHING over the past 4 years. That the Mark III actually has notable improvements over the Mark II makes the price increase seem even more reasonable to me.

I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.

If by "troll" you were referring to me, well, helpful, I am no troll.

No, I didn't mean you. There was someone who posted a long thing about how it wasn't so bad now in China, and it was getting a lot better. I am not trying to attack anyone, so I am not even going to look at who said it.

A friend of mine who lives in Thailand, called Canon TH and even went into a Canon shop. Those he spoke to had never heard of the camera, and not one person could give a price. So, I would guess that those that are buying or selling the camera there, are getting it from Malaysia or Singapore. I would be very wary myself.