I was wondering if this has happend to anyone elses playgroups:My playgroup has resorted to removing everything from the game. I dont mean a rule change i just mean by the end of normal play our exiled zone is larger then our graveyards. Our group ended up with so much graveyard recursion that this was just a natural evolution to stopping it.

Well, I have a heavily graveyard-based deck, and if my opponents draw a sufficient amount of graveyard hate, I'm probably going to end the game with more cards in exile than in my library. However, this is usually the result of maybe two or three Relic of Progenitus and/or Tormod's Crypt, combined with my own mill effects (I play the power trio of Altar of Dementia + Mesmeric Orb + Extractor Demon to make my own recursion more effective), so it's not really the amount of exile effects that causes this. Still, my playgroup is slowly but surely learning how important the ability to throw other people's stuff into the exile zone really is, and I would expect nothing but an increase in the quantity on exile effects.

It's good that your playgroup found the right way to fight decks that abuse the graveyard. It's better than letting recursion get completely out of hand.

My group had a lot of yard recursion as well. I run Timetwister and Time Spiral so some of it gets shuffled in. Along with those, I run Scrabbling Claws and Phyrexian Furnace. They cantrip and remove the important cards out of graveyards (unless they are on the field for a long time). I run Relic of Progenitus as well. If I'm in need of more I replace Wheel of Fortune with Time Reversal and add Tormod's Crypt.

For the most part, our exiled zones get larger then our graveyards by the end of the game as well, but that is only a direct result of people running so much gy recurrsion.

It doesn't always reach that extreme, but yes. Graveyard recursion is an excellent way to deal with the rigors of a long game, especially if you're in colors that don't draw cards well, and increasing the amount of yard hate extends naturally from this. Plus you have plenty of playable creatures in EDH that are indestructible, so you have to exile them in order to answer the threat (or force snackrifice. Whichever). Throw stuff like Eldrazi titans and graveyard-fueled combos (as opposed to mere reanimation strategies) into the mix, and exiling the crap out of yards becomes downright necessary.

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I was wondering if this has happend to anyone elses playgroups:My playgroup has resorted to removing everything from the game. I dont mean a rule change i just mean by the end of normal play our exiled zone is larger then our graveyards. Our group ended up with so much graveyard recursion that this was just a natural evolution to stopping it.

So anyone elses playgroup shifted this way, or any other corky way?

What are you playing? If you're playing Rafiq/Pheldagriff or other UWG combo put together a Riftsweeper loop through the Reveillark combo a couple of times and they will stop.

With Guide (Lark on the battlefield, Guide and Riftweeper in the graveyard):Sac Lark, return Guide + Riftsweeper. Return Lark with Guide. Sac Guide and Riftsweeper. Repeat.

Of course, with the right sac outlet, the whole infinite Riftsweeper plan is irrelevant since you can just win with infinite Altar of Dementia or Goblin Bombardment activations. That, or use a non-lethal sac outlet (Spawning Pit) and replace the Riftsweeper with a game-winning ETB ability, like Ghitu Slinger or whatever.

Here's my suggestion - if exile effects have become so prevelant that relying on your graveyard is a liability, build decks that don't depend on the graveyard. Then laugh as each of your opponents have 10 graveyard hate spells that don't effect you.

In theory, the metagame pendulum would then swing back the other way, and people would take out some of their hate, making recursion a viable strategy again.

Here's my suggestion - if exile effects have become so prevelant that relying on your graveyard is a liability, build decks that don't depend on the graveyard. Then laugh as each of your opponents have 10 graveyard hate spells that don't effect you.

In theory, the metagame pendulum would then swing back the other way, and people would take out some of their hate, making recursion a viable strategy again.

I was experiencing a similar problem in my playgroup and approached it the same way: I drastically reduced the number of recursion effects. I'm actually not sure if it's trapped GY in their hands or if they just stopped running them. Either way limiting this particular strategy to just a few cards in each deck has allowed me to dodge that hate most of the time and only use the recursion occasionally when I need it instead of basing entire strategies on it.

Here's my suggestion - if exile effects have become so prevelant that relying on your graveyard is a liability, build decks that don't depend on the graveyard. Then laugh as each of your opponents have 10 graveyard hate spells that don't effect you.

In theory, the metagame pendulum would then swing back the other way, and people would take out some of their hate, making recursion a viable strategy again.

I would support this, but the problem is the context of the situation. In a multiplayer format, you have to stretch your resources further for each player that's in the game. That's why you don't see a lot of point removal in people's decks like Lightning Bolt and Doom Blade, or plain-Jane creatures like Tarmogoyf. You have to get the most bang for your buck out of the cards you play.

Gaining card advantage is critical in multiplayer so you don't quickly fall behind, and recursion is probably one of the easiest and most effective ways to do it. Additionally, a highlander format means that without recursion, players only get one usage out of their cards. "But I want to play Vindicate more than just once!" And so recursion is utilized to do just that.

In short, it would be very hard to tell people *not* to run any recursion in their decks.

Finally, while the logic of not playing anything that interacts with the graveyard in order to blank opponent's graveyard hate doesn't exactly work. Many pieces of graveyard hate have other secondary applications instead of just liquefying the 'yard. Nezumi Graverobber flips into a devastating instant-speed, pain-free Reanimate. Bojuka Bog is a land, so it's integrated directly into your manabase and doesn't take up an actual deck slot. Relic, Claws, and Furnace all can be cantripped. Etc. etc. If worse comes to worse, an opponent can just aim their GY hate at someone other than you so it's not totally dead.

@SurgingChaos: The other way to approach the problem is going for recursion that may not be the most optimal color or costwise but gives you the most options so even if you do limit yourself when you do draw it you will most likely have a target. An example of this is running Beacon of Unrest over Genesis in my decks with green and black. Sure Genesis gives you the long game advantage but in a meta with too much GY hate is he really worth the time investment of getting him in there? Instead Beacon is a recurring effect (sort of) that can be used on other people's GY's even when yours gets nuked.

I think Red's GY recursion is fine and should slip under the radar. The answer should be to limit the recursion to the most relaible effects that you you know you're going to get value out of. Red already is limited at they shouldn't be the focus of the game. Green and Black recursion strategies draw much more attention as they should.