WWI Digest 631
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Latest tirade
by David Folosy
2) RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
by "Denest, Michael J"
3) Voss tripe, green or yellow ???
by Charles Hart
4) RE:"The Blue Max"
by Charles Hart
5) RE:"The Blue Max"
by Sandy Adam
6) Searching For My Roots
by "Paul Schwartzkopf"
7) RE: "The Blue Max"
by "Denest, Michael J"
8) RE: Searching For My Roots
by "Denest, Michael J"
9) Re: Latest tirade
by bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
10) RE: Blue Max
by "Paul Schwartzkopf"
11) Re: Latest tirade: Voss's Tripe:
by Patrick Padovan
12) RE: Voss's Tripe, Undocumented A/C, etc.
by Patrick Padovan
13) RE: Jasta 23b Sopwith Camel
by Sandy Adam
14) Re: Voss's Tripe, Undocumented A/C, etc.
by "Leonard Endy"
15) Re: "The Blue Max"
by Michelle and Rory Goodwin
16) Re: Unphotographed Subjects (was Latest tirade)
by "Bill Ciciora"
17) Re: Searching For My Roots
by The Shannons
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 22:21:13 +0800
From: David Folosy
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Latest tirade
Message-ID: <01BC9E05.FC6C1CA0@user9.argo.net.au>
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Dare I suggest that the cowl was olive once and subsequently painted =
yellow? Sorry to sound equivocal about this (something which I'd never =
accuse you of being, Shane, or Sandy for that matter. ;-) Thinks: Gee, I =
was unequivocal just then. Now I'm confused).=20
I actually don't believe a lot of what I read about WW1 aircraft colours =
because it is so easily disputed. The thing is that one decides what's =
reasonably justified by the authors and historians and goes with that.=20
Now if I can just get my time machine started I could take my modern =
camera and film and prove that Voss's triplane cowl was =
actually.....lilac!=20
Cheers
David S
-----Original Message-----
From: Shane Weier [SMTP:sdw@qld.mim.com.au]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 6:05 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Latest tirade
Hi David,
>
>>Anyway, how often do we paint a scheme on a model only to find years =
=3D
>>later that the latest research has shown it to be wrong (e.g. the =
yellow =3D
>>nose of Voss's Triplane has lately become accepted as the true colour, =
=3D
>not olive green as we had been long led to believe.)?
I don't disgree with your sentiments, nor even that it's *possible* that
Voss had a yellow, not Olive, cowl. But I'd love to see the "latest
research" showing the cowl to be yellow. So far, it consists of one
opinion, repeated by several other authors. Repeated citation doesn't
make it fact, just widely current speculation
In a later post Sandy posits that the aircraft must have been
photographed by more than one camera, and that at least one would have
been using panchromatic film. =20
I'm afraid I find that a little unlikely too. For one thing, Voss and
his triplane lasted a rather short period, so whatever photos were taken
were unlikely to be made by a series of photograpjhers. For a second,
Panchro film was available but RARE at the time. Film was still almost
always developed in trays under a safelight, just as black and white
photographic paper is now. And just like B&W paper, it was insensitive
to orange-red light, not yellow.
This is where interpretation of B&W into colour gets to be pure
guesswork. Because lemon yellow, which has little orange in it will
photograph light, but a chrome yellow is probably deep into the area
where little sensitivity to light exists. The *type* of yellow is far
more likely to cause the variation in tone of known yellow items in B&W
photos than use of pan or ortho film.
So in summary, *I* don't believe we have anything that even approximates
proof either way, but I have a serious suspicion that modellers (and at
least one researcher) would prefer it to be the more colourful option
quite regardless of proof.
Just my take on this (as an ex technical photographer)
Shane
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:09:00 -0400
From: "Denest, Michael J"
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
Message-ID:
I thought George Peppard WAS Bruno Stachel. Although the movie version
characters were shallow, the casting was excellent. Both the book and
the movie gave you a taste of how pompous the aristocratic society was
at the time.
Mike Denest
D&SG Helicopters Division
Rapid Prototyping Center
Building 3-29
Phone 1-610-591-4681
Fax 1-610-591-4444
e-mail to: michael.denest@PHL.boeing.com
>----------
>From: David Folosy[SMTP:solosyd@argo.net.au]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 11:07 AM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
>
>
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>
>Good on yer, Mike! Agree with what you've said. I've just read the book =
>again (last time was at least 15 years ago) and it really is quite well =
>written, IMHO. The characters are not simple stereotypes and the =
>descriptions of air battle are terrific.
>I do think it is unfair to compare the film to the book. It's still a =
>very good film in its genre. When has a film ever been as good as a book =
>on which it was based, anyway? George Peppard fitted the alcoholic, =
>egotistical Stachel character beautifully. Anyway, for me. like some =
>others on the list, it is a sentimental favorite because it inspired my =
>interest in WW1 when I was but a wee lad at school.=20
>
>Cheers
>David S
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Denest, Michael J [SMTP:Michael.Denest@PHL.Boeing.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 9:12 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
>
>Recalling the book, I remember Stachel handing one of the mechanics a
>piece of paper where he had written the phrase. The writer, Jack
>Hunter, roughly described the phrase as two words, the first having four
>letters and the second having three letters. Stachel ordered the
>mechanic to paint the phrase large enough to stretch from the leading
>edge to the trailing edge. I agree on the movie. The airplanes were
>good, the characters and the story line very shallow. The book does an
>excellent job of characterization and plot. By the time you have
>finished, you feel like you know these people. I think it's time for
>another reading. =20
>Mike Denest
>D&SG Helicopters Division
>Rapid Prototyping Center
>Building 3-29
>Phone 1-610-591-4681
>Fax 1-610-591-4444
>e-mail to: michael.denest@PHL.boeing.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>----------
>>From: Sandy Adam[SMTP:sandya@cbbs.demon.co.uk]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 5:31 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list
>>Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Patrick Padovan wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sandy: Just curious: have you actually read "The Blue Max"? =
>The
>>> phrase painted on the protagonist's wing is never stated. I've always =
>=20
>>> assumed it was indeed the phrase you suggested, or something very=20
>>> similar. It's actually quite well researched and well written, imho. =
>Of
>>> course, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, absolutely. I just
>>> wondered if you've read it?
>>
>>Yes, and whilst I would agree that the book is much better than the =
>movie
>>- much less gauche - at least in the movie you can ignore the dreadful
>>two-dimensional characters and enjoy the wallpaper covered aeroplanes.=20
>>Sandy
>>
>
>
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>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC9E05.F992BDE0--
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:18:51 -0700
From: Charles Hart
To: wwi
Subject: Voss tripe, green or yellow ???
Message-ID:
>>....
>> Alex Imrie's book on the Fokker triplane stated that the Voss tripe had the
>> cowling painted chrome yellow, the identifying color of Jasta 10.
>>
>> Jim Pliml
>>
>Thanks Jim, yes I have this book, but I could not remeber actually seeing
>it stated that Timm said this. Is there a reference somewhere else where
>AI give's Timm's words? Maybe I'm just missing it in the book but I can
>only find photo 24 on page 22 where Imrie states that it was painted
>chrome yellow the identifying colour of Jasta 10.
>Now that picture shows an Albatros in a hanger in the background and yes,
>it is far away, in different lighting conditions, but I can easily accept
>that it has a yellow nose - whatever type of film was used. It looks very
>different in tone from the Tripe though.
>I am sure Timm reported accuratelt that the standard rule was a yellow
>nose - but did he actually say that the Voss Tripe had one too? Where is
>this reported?
>Like others I cannot see why you would put a white face on a yellow nose -
>surely it would be a darker colour.
>
>I was aware of Imrie's hypothesis, but are there any other cross-refs to
>this?
>
>Sorry to carry this on - but I would like to do Voss' machine again. (Last
>effort was an Aurora one some years ago - Olive nose - but if I could
>convince myself of the yellow theory it would certainly be more colourful
>- especially since the rest of photo 24 is the same tone and I could do
>all the streaks in yellow too!!!)
>
>Sandy
Another book mentioning the possibility of a yellow cowl for Voss's F1
103/17 is "High in Empty Blue" the history of 56 Squadron. It features a
color plate of the Voss machine, complete with yellow cowl. I don't recall
if this features specific mention of Herr Timm and his 60+ year old
recollections.
My US$0.02 worth is to say, paint the cowl what ever color you prefer
and put the burden of "proof" on the color police. They weren't there
either.
Charles
hartc@spot.colorado.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:23:55 -0700
From: Charles Hart
To: wwi
Subject: RE:"The Blue Max"
Message-ID:
I too owe my interest in WW I aviation to the release of the film "The
Blue Max". I was about 11 when it was first released. I went to see it
three times (no VCRs back then). It was from that movie that I learned
what a Pfalz D-III was (thanks to my friends dad's copy of the Harleyford
Fighters book). Revell kits were US$0.50 then. I built squadrons worth of
each.
Charles
hartc@spot.colorado.edu
>
>Good on yer, Mike! Agree with what you've said. I've just read the book =
>again (last time was at least 15 years ago) and it really is quite well =
>written, IMHO. The characters are not simple stereotypes and the =
>descriptions of air battle are terrific.
>I do think it is unfair to compare the film to the book. It's still a =
>very good film in its genre. When has a film ever been as good as a book =
>on which it was based, anyway? George Peppard fitted the alcoholic, =
>egotistical Stachel character beautifully. Anyway, for me. like some =
>others on the list, it is a sentimental favorite because it inspired my =
>interest in WW1 when I was but a wee lad at school.=20
>
>Cheers
>David S
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Denest, Michael J [SMTP:Michael.Denest@PHL.Boeing.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 9:12 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
>
>Recalling the book, I remember Stachel handing one of the mechanics a
>piece of paper where he had written the phrase. The writer, Jack
>Hunter, roughly described the phrase as two words, the first having four
>letters and the second having three letters. Stachel ordered the
>mechanic to paint the phrase large enough to stretch from the leading
>edge to the trailing edge. I agree on the movie. The airplanes were
>good, the characters and the story line very shallow. The book does an
>excellent job of characterization and plot. By the time you have
>finished, you feel like you know these people. I think it's time for
>another reading. =20
>Mike Denest
>D&SG Helicopters Division
>Rapid Prototyping Center
>Building 3-29
>Phone 1-610-591-4681
>Fax 1-610-591-4444
>e-mail to: michael.denest@PHL.boeing.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>----------
>>From: Sandy Adam[SMTP:sandya@cbbs.demon.co.uk]
>>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 5:31 AM
>>To: Multiple recipients of list
>>Subject: RE: Latest tirade: Sandy/ "The Blue Max"
>>
>>
>>
>>On Wed, 30 Jul 1997, Patrick Padovan wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Sandy: Just curious: have you actually read "The Blue Max"? =
>The
>>> phrase painted on the protagonist's wing is never stated. I've always =
>=20
>>> assumed it was indeed the phrase you suggested, or something very=20
>>> similar. It's actually quite well researched and well written, imho. =
>Of
>>> course, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, absolutely. I just
>>> wondered if you've read it?
>>
>>Yes, and whilst I would agree that the book is much better than the =
>movie
>>- much less gauche - at least in the movie you can ignore the dreadful
>>two-dimensional characters and enjoy the wallpaper covered aeroplanes.=20
>>Sandy
>>
>
>
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>------ =_NextPart_000_01BC9E05.F992BDE0--
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:28:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Sandy Adam
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE:"The Blue Max"
Message-ID:
Lets just all agree that the most remarkable item in this film was that
astonishing piece of cloth (can't remember if its a towel or a sheet) that
clings to the naked Ursula Andress no matter how she throws herself
around on Stachel's bed.
Obviously they chose the wooden Peppard as his reactions to this nubile
display of aerobatics were so late that they'd finished the cut before his
brain could think of any instructions regarding this to send to the rest
of his body.
Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:41:52 +0000
From: "Paul Schwartzkopf"
To: wwi
Subject: Searching For My Roots
Message-ID: <199707311743.MAA28821@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com>
Forgive my ignorance on this point, but my WW1 library is limited,
and I have never journeyed to a museum to see an actual aircraft.
How good a job should be done when assembling any fabric wings that are
attached to the fuselage? Would there be some sort of gap at the wing
root? Would there be a difference when the fuselage was wood/metal
or fabric? My main concern is aircraft with wooden fuselages, such
as Albatrii and Hansas, but would be interested in fabric fuselaged
aircraft also. I can't believe that a WW1 plane would have as tight
tolerances (and joints) as an F/A-18, but I have been known to be
wrong before. It just seems to me that a gap would be seen.
Comments, anyone? TIA.
Paul A. Schwartzkopf
===================================================================
Development Engineer--Software
Transcrypt International, Inc.
Telephone: (402) 474-4800
E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com
===================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:39:01 -0400
From: "Denest, Michael J"
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: "The Blue Max"
Message-ID:
You don't know how much I prayed for those towels to fall off! (I still
do). I don't care how tired I was, I'd go for it! Has any other WWI
movie provided this much excitement? (T&A, that is)
Mike Denest
D&SG Helicopters Division
Rapid Prototyping Center
Building 3-29
Phone 1-610-591-4681
Fax 1-610-591-4444
e-mail to: michael.denest@PHL.boeing.com
>----------
>From: Sandy Adam[SMTP:sandya@cbbs.demon.co.uk]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 1:31 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: RE:"The Blue Max"
>
>
>Lets just all agree that the most remarkable item in this film was that
>astonishing piece of cloth (can't remember if its a towel or a sheet) that
>clings to the naked Ursula Andress no matter how she throws herself
>around on Stachel's bed.
>Obviously they chose the wooden Peppard as his reactions to this nubile
>display of aerobatics were so late that they'd finished the cut before his
>brain could think of any instructions regarding this to send to the rest
>of his body.
>Sandy
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:45:52 -0400
From: "Denest, Michael J"
To: "'wwi@pease1.sr.unh.edu'"
Subject: RE: Searching For My Roots
Message-ID:
10 years ago I visited England with the express purpose of visiting the
RAF Museum, Shuttleworth, etc. to see SE5a's. The RAF Museum example is
a very nicely restored airplane for static display (non-flyer, rats!).
The Shuttleworth example was not present at the time as it was in a RAF
maintenance facility at the time. Check around the local airports in
your area for a DH-82A Tiger Moth. Although this airplane was not
produced until 1935, the techniques of WWI construction are the same.
In answer to your question, yes there are gaps (and plenty of them!).
Mike Denest
D&SG Helicopters Division
Rapid Prototyping Center
Building 3-29
Phone 1-610-591-4681
Fax 1-610-591-4444
e-mail to: michael.denest@PHL.boeing.com
>----------
>From: Paul Schwartzkopf[SMTP:pauls@transcrypt.com]
>Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 1:39 PM
>To: Multiple recipients of list
>Subject: Searching For My Roots
>
>Forgive my ignorance on this point, but my WW1 library is limited,
>and I have never journeyed to a museum to see an actual aircraft.
>
>How good a job should be done when assembling any fabric wings that are
>attached to the fuselage? Would there be some sort of gap at the wing
>root? Would there be a difference when the fuselage was wood/metal
>or fabric? My main concern is aircraft with wooden fuselages, such
>as Albatrii and Hansas, but would be interested in fabric fuselaged
>aircraft also. I can't believe that a WW1 plane would have as tight
>tolerances (and joints) as an F/A-18, but I have been known to be
>wrong before. It just seems to me that a gap would be seen.
>Comments, anyone? TIA.
>
>Paul A. Schwartzkopf
>===================================================================
>Development Engineer--Software
>Transcrypt International, Inc.
>Telephone: (402) 474-4800
>E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com
>===================================================================
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:53:25 -0700
From: bshatzer@orednet.org (Bill Shatzer)
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Latest tirade
Message-ID: <199707311753.AA09781@ednet1.orednet.org>
Paul writes:
>
>If the aircraft was left free of unit markings, then explain how the well
>documented face on the cowl would be acceptable on an airframe classified
>as only "borrowed"...........
>
>I agree that there is a possibility for question, but I'm much more
>inclined to believe a witness than those who weren't there.
While there have been lots of theories, the fact remains that
no one really knows where the "face" originated. It _could_
have been a Voss "personal marking" (even though completely
different than his "heart in a wreath" used on the Albatros)
but it could have had a completely different origin altogether.
Still, assuming it was a Voss personal marking, personal markings
on an "attached" aircraft seem altogether less problematic than
Jasta markings on the same. But, I freely concede that I
am engaging in a degree of surmise here.
As for believing witnesses, well, have practiced law for more
than a few years, I can only caution that eyewitnesses often
have a problem accurately relating what they observed only
days or weeks after the event. Which causes me considerable
distrust of purported eye-witness testimony on something so
inconsequential as a cowling color related more than 60
years after the fact.
You might note the great number of Messerschmitt sightings
by allied personnel in the Pacific theatre during the
early years of WW-2 - when the Japanese not only had no
Bf-109's, they had no fighters at all with inline engines.
But the allied pilots had been told that the Japanese
had Messerschmitts and, accordingly, they SAW Messerschmitts.
Similarly, Timm _knew_ Jasta 10 aircraft had yellow noses -
he worked on aircraft with nothing but yellow noses for
some time. Could that have affected his recollection of
the nose color on 103/17? It is certainly more than just
a possibility.
But, I'm not claiming that 103/17 _didn't_ have a yellow
cowling - just that to my mind, at least, the question is
still "not proven".
Cheers,
--
- Bill Shatzer bshatzer@orednet.org -
- Cave ab homine unius libri! -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 13:12:29 +0000
From: "Paul Schwartzkopf"
To: wwi
Subject: RE: Blue Max
Message-ID: <199707311814.NAA29255@tscrypt1.transcrypt.com>
It was because of my wee "innocent" age and Ursula Undress that my
over-protective parents did not let me see The Blue Max when it was
in the theaters. I sure had a deprived childhood!
Paul A. Schwartzkopf
===================================================================
Development Engineer--Software
Transcrypt International, Inc.
Telephone: (402) 474-4800
E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com
===================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 11:47:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Padovan
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: Re: Latest tirade: Voss's Tripe:
Message-ID:
Gentlemen: On the other hand: All of the photos I've seen of Jasta 10
Albatri & Pfalz machines show uniformly dark noses. Yet, it's stated time
and again that these machines have "yellow" noses as a unit marking.
Perhaps there are other photos I haven't seen, where the noses of these
machines DON'T appear dark?
On the other hand, I've seen Methuen ref's given (sorry, don't have
them here & can't provide them) fo this alleged Jasta 10 "yellow" which,
to my eyes, looked rather more like light green than yellow. But, perhaps
this is an idiosyncrasy of my vision, and this color looks like yellow to
others?
Regards, Patrick
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Padovan
Interlibrary Loan Associate
Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001
415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838
Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:20:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: Patrick Padovan
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Voss's Tripe, Undocumented A/C, etc.
Message-ID:
Greetings, gang: Isn't it funny how we've been discussing both the joy
and necessity of modeling a/c based on our own speculations and
conclusions, and debating the "real" color of Voss's Tripe cowl, all
practically in the same breath? I love this! To me, the point is simple:
it's fun and stimulating to engage in a lively debate about the likelihood
or unlikelihood of a particular color-scheme on a given machine, as long
as we don't start behaving like "color police," and pretending that we
actually KNOW the right answer. It sounds to me like we've avoided doing
this quite nicely, and that while some might conclude that an olive cowl
was more likely, and others prefer the yellow cowl theory, both sides
agree that they may be wrong. That's cool, in my opinion. I'm one of the
third group, who will have a lot more photo-scanning and head-scratching
and decision-making to do before I decide what color the cowl of Voss's
tripe will be, the next time I model it.
Thanks to all of you for making my Thursday much more fun and
interesting!
Ciao! Patrick
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Padovan
Interlibrary Loan Associate
Timberland Regional Library Voice: 360-943-5001
415 Airdustrial Way SW FAX: 360-586-6838
Olympia, WA 98501-5799 e-mail: ppadovan@timberland.lib.wa.us
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 18:16:12 +0100 (BST)
From: Sandy Adam
To: Multiple recipients of list
Subject: RE: Jasta 23b Sopwith Camel
Message-ID:
Hi Fernando
I mentioned this Camel recently when I was raving about The Camel File
where a picture appears. the same picture is in the King of Combat book by
Chaz Bowyer (p 101).
You can see the darker (black) aft fuselage on what is obviously still
standard RAF PC10/aluminium cockpit area. Interesting winged motif behind
cockpit on fuselage side.
Also coloured cowling, crosses etc.
Sandy
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 00:30:07 GMT
From: "Leonard Endy"
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Voss's Tripe, Undocumented A/C, etc.
Message-ID: <33e32d58.1832673@legend.firstsaga.com>
On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:20:19 -0400, you wrote:
>To me, the point is simple:
>it's fun and stimulating to engage in a lively debate about the likelihood
>or unlikelihood of a particular color-scheme on a given machine, as long
>as we don't start behaving like "color police," and pretending that we
>actually KNOW the right answer.
Couldn't agree more. I'm just now realizing that people actually saw in
color back then....I thought they just saw in black and white, and color
was invented to make movies more fun.....
Len Endy
reply to: lfendy@firstsaga.com
"Planes, Trains and...that's all that matters."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:23:25 -0700
From: Michelle and Rory Goodwin
To: wwi
Subject: Re: "The Blue Max"
Message-ID: <33E12C7D.2E63@ricochet.net>
Denest, Michael J wrote:
>
> You don't know how much I prayed for those towels to fall off! (I still
> do). I don't care how tired I was, I'd go for it! Has any other WWI
> movie provided this much excitement? (T&A, that is)
How about Elke Sommer in "Zeppelin"? I'd rate it as a fair WWI espionage
film anyway, with high marks for the aviation content. Only thing
missing was the Bergman SMGs the storm troopers should have had.
Cheers,
--
Michelle and Riordan Goodwin
Visit our websites:
Michelle's Home/Resume Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/9171
Riordan's Wings of Revolution: http://www.serve.com/rgoodwin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:20:08 -0500
From: "Bill Ciciora"
To:
Subject: Re: Unphotographed Subjects (was Latest tirade)
Message-ID:
Matt asks:
> Anyway you can describe how the artwork is done? Or maybe scan
> it? I'm very curious. TIA!
It's fairly easy to describe. The unusual nature of the color scheme is
what prompted me to model it. As to the accuracy of the scheme, I'll leave
that to the color police.
The wings and tailplane are clear doped linen. The rear of the fuselage is
aluminum dope. The front of the fuselage is blue, but not the same shade as
the cockade center. In searching the hobby shops for a close match, I ended
up with Model Master RAF P.R.U. Blue. The line of demarcation between the
blue and the aluminum is just in front of the foot step, up to the longeron
where the top of the fuselage begins to curve. Then, forward, to just
behind the V cabane. Cabane struts, undercarriage, tailplane struts, and
wheel covers are also blue. Cowling is uncolored aluminum. Interplace
struts are natural wood, with those wrapping stripe things. Rudder is
standard French blue-white-red (from the front), with serial number N1208.
Of course, N124 Indian head squadron marking is in the approximate center
of the fuselage.
I hope that's clear enough to build a model.
Bill C.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:55:15 -0500
From: The Shannons
To: wwi
Subject: Re: Searching For My Roots
Message-ID: <33E15013.3E7@ix.netcom.com>
Paul Schwartzkopf wrote:
>
> Forgive my ignorance on this point, but my WW1 library is limited,
> and I have never journeyed to a museum to see an actual aircraft.
>
> How good a job should be done when assembling any fabric wings that are
> attached to the fuselage? Would there be some sort of gap at the wing
> root? Would there be a difference when the fuselage was wood/metal
> or fabric? My main concern is aircraft with wooden fuselages, such
> as Albatrii and Hansas, but would be interested in fabric fuselaged
> aircraft also. I can't believe that a WW1 plane would have as tight
> tolerances (and joints) as an F/A-18, but I have been known to be
> wrong before. It just seems to me that a gap would be seen.
> Comments, anyone? TIA.
>
> Paul A. Schwartzkopf
> ===================================================================
> Development Engineer--Software
> Transcrypt International, Inc.
> Telephone: (402) 474-4800
> E-Mail: pauls@transcrypt.com
> ===================================================================
--
I'd say that there was a fairly noticable gap in the early Nieuport
fighters (11, 17, I'm not sure about the early round fuse) and in the
Albatros D.III and D.V (as well as the C.III, etc.). On the other hand,
it is specifically pointed out in the datafile that the fairing on the
Pfalz D.III and IIIa was very finely fitted and smoothed, at least until
the plane faced the stretching/bending/warping forces of flying out on a
French or Belgian field in winter and spring.
(Yes, my datafiles came today!)
--
This has been Mark and/or Mary Shannon
at Shingend@ix.netcom.com
History manages to get away with cliches no novelist could.
------------------------------
End of WWI Digest 631
*********************