AuthorTopic: The Spectra Sonics Thread (Read 27613 times)

I just acquired a couple of these tiny Spectra Sonics 501 EQs. They are simple fixed 2 band EQs. I can't seem to find any info on them. I would presume that they are shelving top and bottom. Has anybody used these before? I've got a couple of 101 cards to go with them, and plan on racking them eventually.

I have 16 of these Spectra Sonics modules that came out of a remote truck here in LA. They have been highly modified. I am going to undo the mods, and reconfigure for use as a rack package or side car for a friend, as Mic/Line amps with Eq and fader only. The sends will not be used. What I would like, is information from some dusty files that pertain to this type console configuration. The 101 amps are easy, but what was done before hand was a mess and figuring out the proper layout for two 101 cards and one EQ and fader is the intent here.The photos show what these look like. Any info is appreciated.

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

I know Ken McKim has info on these as well. I use to own a Flickinger console that had all Spectrasonic 101 pre-amps in her and Ken back engineered the console for me. Also he had a whole file on Spectrasonic at the time.

If Terry can't get you the info then I can give you Ken's contact info.

Not to hijack the thread Billy but did you ever mod that ADK mic like you were talking about? I had a client stiff me on a bill and he sent me his ADK TT microphone (their high end tube model)... doesn't sound bad, in fact it finishes right behind the U67 on my listening files... so I was wondering if there was a way to "hot rod" her anymore and I know you were looking into that at one point.

Thanks Billy... now back to the Spectrasonic thread...

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Larry DeVivoSilvertone Mastering, Inc.PO Box 4582 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866www.silvertonemastering.comTo see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/ (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

The other thing you can do is cut the fader off and use one of the sends as a master pot to make and even smaller rack. We've done that on a few Electrodyne and Quad Eight modules. You make the pre/post switch an "attenuator or full on switch" and then the pot becomes the actual attenuator (when the pre/post switch is in that position). Works like a charm and makes a much smaller footprint. Also then no worry about the faders travel having an "problem spots".

Just some food for thought.

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Larry DeVivoSilvertone Mastering, Inc.PO Box 4582 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866www.silvertonemastering.comTo see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/ (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

Good memory Terry. Yes 100 (and I want to say also switchable to 50Hz on the low end?) and 10K on the top. Great little passive EQ's. You can see them at the bottom of the rack in this picture. Dan Flickinger used two of these on the two bus of one of his consoles that I used to own. It had all Spectrasonic 101 pre-amp cards and these 501's on the two buss. Cool little 8x2 console... I wish I'd kept her.

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Larry DeVivoSilvertone Mastering, Inc.PO Box 4582 Saratoga Springs, NY 12866www.silvertonemastering.comTo see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/ (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

Wow!Thanks guys. That sketch is very similar to what I sketched out last night. Timmy,Terry and Larry...(sounds like a comedy troupe or English mod act right?) Thanks for the input, and yes, I would like any documentation from any angle. This forum once again proves to be the most amazing resource on the planet.Larry...You know, I sat there for 2 hours pondering the re-packaging options and always came up with the need to ditch the linear fader, as it really isn't needed at all. A pot would suffice and I also agree that using the cue pot location for an input attenuator is very logical. By cutting off the fader end, the package would be slightly longer than a 1073. Perfect! The idea of this project is to have two portable racks with 8 modules each. I think my client will be happy about this approach.As to the ADK TT-AU (C-12 & U-67), no mods needed...they sound wonderful by themselves. I think you may be thinking of the APEX 460 project that I did. It was well worth the effort too. A 5 star GE 12AY7 (6072A), plate coupling cap changed out to a Tantalum type, and the Cinemag transformer was all I have done so far. It sounds very nice and smooth and a big upgrade in performance. I hope that's what you're talking about. I may have to go back to the ADK thread and read to see if I missed something.BTW, Larry Valilla makes some great microphones for the money and is one hell of a nice guy.Again, Thanks Timmy. I am going to print it out and get to work.Hand me the solder sucker please...

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

You say there are two 101 cards there, Billy. Is it like the diagram I posted, or do the mic and eq stages each have their own amp? If the latter (where it wouldn't restrticted to using only a resistive pad for mic gain), this feedback gain info may be useful.BTW, K and H are both output pins, with the difference being that H (which is used in the above diagram with the eq in the feedback loop) has a coupling cap.

Thanks again Timmy.These modules use 2 101 cards. The schematic you posted is similar to the one I sketched out but the signal path is a bit different. The second card is being used as a makeup amplifier I believe, as the cue and echo sends are ahead of it, and the Eq is in the feedback loop of the second card. It will be interesting to see the posts that are forthcoming for comparison sake. There were so many different SS consoles as they were a "custom" order item built up from a couple of standard platforms. The customer would add various options as the application and budget demanded. When Harrah's Lake Tahoe de-comissioned the 40 input SS console, it went into storage and was later given to me. I was in the process of stripping it down to rewire it as a more conventional recording desk when Divorce caused me to part with it. It was a massive console...8' ft. long and weighed at least 500 pounds. It was configured as a 5 channel mono out with a quad panned (joystick) master, feeding the 5 speaker arrays...L,C,R,RR,LR. It used the 3 band EQ's on every channel. In reality, it was only a 20 channel plus 5 channels with a 5Y (5 mics input) via a 5X1 premix so you could control up to 40 mics. Kind of cool for the time. It was a beauty. The meter bridge had a hinged top that revealed the 100 or more 101 cards. Each output buss had a 610 Complimiter built in too. Just waxing with the memory here, sorry. One thing I can tell you about that console, is that every employee of the stage crew would say how wonderful it sounded, because it was replaced with a Yamaha PM-3000! No wonder...and it rarely broke down unlike the PM3K...Junk.So, basically, these modules here are about the same except for the EQ being a 501 2 band unit.

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

I'd be willing to bet than most of the mods were necessary to keep out RFI. The complete consoles were supposed to be OK but integrating the components with other gear was notorious for RFI train wrecks.

I'd be willing to bet than most of the mods were necessary to keep out RFI. The complete consoles were supposed to be OK but integrating the components with other gear was notorious for RFI train wrecks.

Bob...Yes, I agree. I notice all kinds of bypass capacitors to ground throughout. My old console was also that way. I guess when you have an amplifier like the 101 that has a response up to 100KHZ and above, you might be a little susceptible to RFI, no? Keeping audio leads short as possible.

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

Hey Billy. Just scoured the internet for all the info I could find on Spectra Sonics. I think that based on this photo (posted on gearslutz) the EQ you have in your modules is the 500. The two EQ's on the left are the 500s. The other six are the 501s.

Philip...You are correct and I stand corrected...yes, those are the same although the face plate on the 500's in the photo are slightly different, probably older I guess. The ones I have here have never been fooled with and are in very nice shape. Low freq. selection of 50, 100, 200 & 300 Hz +- 12 Db. HF selection 2.5, 5, 10 & 15 Khz +- 12 Db. Like Terry mentioned, they are rather broad, something like 6 Db per octave. It's been awhile since I looked at the response curves. I used to have the entire catalog of documentation for every item they manufactured, including the blue prints. They are all gone now. I have kicked my self for years for getting rid of that stuff. Being able to openly share that info with people who need it would be nice. Back then, Greg Daley who was President of SS would gladly send out any info request via mail, for a price that is. I think they went into designing audio systems for Lear Jets and basically got out of pro audio entirely. Recently, the 610 Complimiter was re-introduced and you know whats funny? The street price for the current issue is only $200 or so dollars more than the 1970's price of $839.00. Crazy.I would be curious to read the comments by others who have used the 610 and what they use it for. The one we have sounds lousy and pretty much destroys anything you put through it. I think it needs a complete overhaul myself.Back to the work bench.

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

In the interest of keeping things tidy and consistent, I asked Terry if we could merge the two threads together...Viola! "The official SpectraSonics Thread"Thanks Terry!Like Phillip and myself, there is undoubtedly a need for information regarding Spectra Sonics equipment and this forum has certainly been a pinnacle for info gathering and distribution for the members here. I have compiled a nice set of documents courtesy of my friend Richard Dobson, who generously loaned me two spiral bound copies of the operation manual and architectural drawings including the single line schematics of the 1024 console, which was a standard model platform that many custom consoles were built from. Unlike the Ardent style desk, this one used 110 amplifier cards which used a bipolar supply +- 24vdc. The 101 cards used a single +24vdc supply, but the pinouts for both are the same with the exception being, pin C as the -24vdc leg (B-) for the 110 card.For what it's worth, I find it unusual that more information doesn't exist on the internet regarding SS products. In light of that, I find it compelling to help out by sharing what we can collectively dig up. And, like any other brand of equipment, SS has it's admirers and non admirers, but that doesn't mean we can't enjoy and learn from the process of projects being brought forth and implemented in todays application of audio recording.Hand me that shovel please...

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Billy YatesVenice Amplifier Co310 425 2566 AES Member 72975

"Mix? What mix? Oh, that mix...it's easy! Because it's all Digital, the only thing you have to do is pour a bunch of zero's and one's into a blender and push "mix". Then, you pray."

As I saw the Spectra Sonics card pictures posted in this thread, I instantly recognized the relationship between them and my Scully 100. I'm certain there is a story about a designer from Spectra Sonics who worked on the Scully 100 project. So for those who would like a SS multi-track tape recorder, it was made!

Just found this thread since I've been "Away" watching college basketball since Nov. I have one of the last Spectrasonics 1020 consoles built by Auditronics, it's actually branded Auditronics on the fotofoil. It's the 3-band EQ with 101 cards. The sad part is that the previous owner pretty much butchered the wiring harness and removed the 16x4 monitor section. Lots of work to do on it.

My aim has been to repackage it as a 18x2 mixer with switchable direct outs per channel. I have had some of the same issues others here said, one being ditching the long fader in favor of a rotary pot and the cue pot seems like the logical place for it. Since I'm only going to use the pot for mic gain when tracking and basically a summing box for 16 channels of PT when mixing, a log throw fader is not really necessary.

I gave Jerry Puckett, the chief design engineer at Auditronics one of my modules a year or so ago to get the pinouts for the modules, I just have not got back with him, we've talked, just not about this. I also found out that the output transformers for the console were in the outboard patchbay that was located in matching rack, it is not to be found thanks to the previous owner. Any actual documentation would be a help if possible.

We have came up with a solution that my engineering buddy had already done which is a small circuit board which mounts on a XLR panel jack. It uses OPA134 opamps which takes a balanced/unbalanced input at -10 to +4 and drives a +4 balanced 600 ohm output, gain trim built on the board. We will use these for the direct outs. The 2 mix will be something similar to a API summing solution using his custom opamps or whatever good is available off the shelf.

My biggest problem is having a place to work on this monster. My wife has been pressing me to get the frame out of the storage building and she suggested we do that this weekend. Since I will be putting it into a smaller frame/layout I might just remove all the motherboards with the amp connectors for the modules, the extrusion for building the smaller frame and chucking the rest into the weeds. This is not a project I look forward to, but It's a board I really want.

I originally owned this console when it was pulled from Sound Techniques in Dallas, TX, but we where 16 track at the time and when I went 24 track I had to get something bigger (I actually had the original Stax blue & yellow formica console which I gutted for modules to extend this thing to 24 channels and chucked the frame. It didn't work out very well. I know, don't yell at me. I've yelled at myself enough. LOL). Anyhow a year and a half back (it was my birthday I do remember) I was discussing this console with a friend on Gearslutz that was familiar with it and I stated that I wished I had it back. Later that week I got a call out of the blue that the console was going to the dump and if I wanted it I could come pick it up. The modules are all in excellent shape sans the aforementioned wiring harnesses and I also got a couple of boxes of Spectrasonics cards, a lot of them new in the bag. Later...

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“You’re paid to record, not erase!” ~ an annoyed Jim Dickinson to young engineer who took it upon himself to clean up the bleed on some tracks.

I recently picked up some modules that look identical to the one posted by Billy Yates on pg. 1 of this thread, but the amp cards aren't the same. One one side is this dual amp card, & on the other is a card with a single amp (same circuit) on it. Anyone ever seen these?Tom

I've been working on figuring out my modules (pictured above), so I thought I'd drag this thread back up. The amp cards, it turns out, run on +/- 24V, and the modules have been modded to deal with that. I've managed to get audio out of a couple of the modules(yay!), and it sounds good. However, there should be more than one out, & I only have the one--I've got eq, but no output level controls at all--the fader, cue pot, & echo pot have no impact. I thought I had sussed out the different outputs, but I'm getting nothing. I'm wondering if anyone knows the module pinout, so I could check my work & see if I'm missing something.

Go straight to the source. Call Spectra-Sonics and show them the picture. I have been told that they have a lot of the original documentation and notebooks from the original owner. If anyone can shed some light on this it would probably be them if they have the time.

I've been working on figuring out my modules (pictured above), so I thought I'd drag this thread back up. The amp cards, it turns out, run on +/- 24V, and the modules have been modded to deal with that. I've managed to get audio out of a couple of the modules(yay!), and it sounds good. However, there should be more than one out, & I only have the one--I've got eq, but no output level controls at all--the fader, cue pot, & echo pot have no impact. I thought I had sussed out the different outputs, but I'm getting nothing. I'm wondering if anyone knows the module pinout, so I could check my work & see if I'm missing something.

Any help/suggestions would be most welcome.

ThanksTom

Those modules on the first page look like the ones from Ardent's "B" studio console back in the late 70's - early 80's. Those do not look like 101's in your module, some kind of mod I suppose. One things for sure, the original 101 cards were +24 volt only, not +/- 24 volts which would seriously damage the cards. The 110s are +/- 15 to 18 volts.

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“You’re paid to record, not erase!” ~ an annoyed Jim Dickinson to young engineer who took it upon himself to clean up the bleed on some tracks.

I've been working on figuring out my modules (pictured above), so I thought I'd drag this thread back up. The amp cards, it turns out, run on +/- 24V, and the modules have been modded to deal with that. I've managed to get audio out of a couple of the modules(yay!), and it sounds good. However, there should be more than one out, & I only have the one--I've got eq, but no output level controls at all--the fader, cue pot, & echo pot have no impact. I thought I had sussed out the different outputs, but I'm getting nothing. I'm wondering if anyone knows the module pinout, so I could check my work & see if I'm missing something.

Any help/suggestions would be most welcome.

ThanksTom

Those modules on the first page look like the ones from Ardent's "B" studio console back in the late 70's - early 80's. Those do not look like 101's in your module, some kind of mod I suppose. One things for sure, the original 101 cards were +24 volt only, not +/- 24 volts which would seriously damage the cards. The 110s are +/- 15 to 18 volts.

My quartet of 110s are running on +/- 24v, the pinout diagram we have is marked as such--- this is the first reference I've seen to +/- 15 to 18v.

I think that the later SS channel strips ran off of 15 or 18 volts to accommodate the ICs, so basically the 110's aren't running at their full potential. I have a couple strips of this type, but can't wait to rip those 5534s out and replace them with something class A that can run at +/- 24.

Thanks Terry. For the life of me I couldn't remember his name when I was typing that reply. And I have to say he was a wonderful person. I called the number for Spectra-Sonics that I found in my old owners manual in about 1992. I thought they had gone out of business years before. William answered the phone and proceeded to chat me up about my 610's and his company for over an hour. Very nice guy.

I hadn't checked back on this thread in a while--nice to see a spurt of activity after my post. I spent some more time staring at the connector board that the amps plug into, & I figured out where I was going wrong. What I thought was the main out is actually a pre-fader output. Looping that back in to the next pin over (the fader input--how convenient!) gave me signal in all the right places. I still haven't sussed out all the connections for the Pre-Listen switch--more staring & headscratching, I suppose.

This modded unit is running nicely on +/- 24v (just on the test rig so far.) Re the extra amp circuit on the card in the photo--for some reason there's a separate amp circuit for the line in, & the line input also bypasses the input transformer. I'm not quite sure why they saw fit to do that.

Since Billy and I started this thread last year, I've had two channels racked up from a later Spectra Sonics console that had the 502 3 band inductor EQ. I'm not sure how the earlier SS channels ran with two 101 or 110 cards... but with these later channels I believe that both the mic pre and EQ run off a single 110a card and a separate motherboard with IC's is used as makeup gain. My channels have the mod to take 5534s in place of the original IC's (unknown to me) that were installed at the factory.

It took much trial and error to get these channels stable and free of oscillation especially without the schematics for the entire channel... in the end it was worth it. The SS stuff sounds great and the EQ is very musical, though I'm sure many here already know that. The preamps sound quick and tight in the mids and highs yet the low end is a little rounder and slow.

One thing that I found surprising is that the two switches that engage the 10K and 50 hz shelving do nothing in line in mode. They only function in mic pre mode, and the funny thing is that they don't work in boosting those two frequencies, only in cutting them. The guy I got my channels from has the SS documentation to back this up... originally I thought that something was wrong with the shelving functions. I wonder how many engineers using 502 EQs over the years actually thought that they were shelving up 10k when they turned that switch on.

Count me in if you get a discussion group together. I don't have a Spectra Sonics console (wish I did) but I do have misc channel strips, 101 and 110 cards, and pairs of the three main versions of EQ's they made, 500, 501, and 502. Great sounding stuff! Coincidentally I'm also running an Ampex MM1000 16 track except mine came from CBS studios in NYC. Is the EQ in your console 2 band or 3 band?