When a couple of good ol’ boys from Vermont corner you in Salt Lake City you know something is up. I knew I was safe from being converted but would they let me in on some secret cheddar cheese? Or a few sips of maple syrup? Not quite, but they did give me the run down on a new binding plate system they’ve been working on for the last 3 years.

I’ll let the pictures tell the story.

From their site, “CAST is derived from the collective noun for a group of hawks and named in honor of Green Mountain Freeride founding member Ryan Hawks. Ryan possessed an indomitable spirit and never ending love of life. It is CAST’s mission to honor Ryan’s spirit and all of those we have lost in the mountains, by creating quality products which allow for easier access and greater enjoyment of those special places where we are closest to them.”

Lars Chickering Ayers and brother Silas have been ripping up the Freeride World Tour for a few years now. Both have come to a realization that they needed a system for touring and dropping into some of the steepest lines with the biggest cliffs in the world. Behold the CAST touring binding.

The latest video from the guys at CAST.

LOOK binding toe piece mounted to custom CNC plate.

Plate and binding interface feature custom CNC'd stainless. Production version will vary slightly.

The plate is secure by a welded bar system inspired by the safety mechanism on your favorite high powered rifle.

The interchange plate system has a very positive engage and release. Or safety and Fire! These boys love their lathe and it shows.

Dynafit toe piece plate looks to be inspired by a PLUM Yak plate. The production version will vary slightly in materials.

Additional weight savings are made on the alpine toe-piece.

Dynafit toe piece on plate.

Once fully engaged forward the boot has moved approximately an inch forward on the plate system. This is to prevent the boot from going from tour to ski mode.

Rubber bands have been tested and proven to be the most effective at holding the brakes up. Note additional lifter plate below the heel ensures a flat interface between toe and heel when in ski mode.

Toe baseplate with further weight reduction. Such a shame all this work will be hidden once mounted.

Comments

59 Responses to “CAST Backcountry Skiing Alpine Binding Adapter”

Pablo
February 11th, 2013 9:14 am

I was longtime thinking about a combination of Tech system for the toe and alpine design binding for the heel, since i saw first time the TTS (Telemark Tech System) bindings…and those guys mede it…will see in the future, maybe the evolution of tech bindings is not via new 2.0 heel pins…

Pablo

Sarah
February 11th, 2013 9:53 am

No thanks.

Johan
February 11th, 2013 10:08 am

Big ups! Old farts need not reply. This is evolution for the duke crowd. Step in the right direction for sure.

Scooter
February 11th, 2013 10:35 am

props to Lars for following through with this. It certainly gives companies like MFD some competition. And that is good for everyone.

Tom Gos
February 11th, 2013 10:48 am

So, as compared to a Duke/Guardian/etc, this saves you the weight of lifting the whole binding up. But, if I’m climbing in my 11+ pound Dobermann WC 150 plug boots with no walk mode is the weighe of the binding really that big of a deal? Not for me, when I use my Dobermanns and Dukes I’m not going far enough for the weight to matter. Nevertheless, I’m sure that there are a few people out there for whom this is the “perfect” product, and good for these guys for filling that niche.

Pete
February 11th, 2013 11:23 am

Neat binding system.
Bigger market may be the aftermarket toe fittings! Do they release? Can I send them my Garmonts?

Hey Joe, thanks a ton for the article. Just to be clear, we can retrofit any boot on the market right now to accommodate a tech toe, not just the ones shown. Also the plates will be made from light weight aluminum and the slide lock is only mounted for ease of prototyping and will be riveted. If anyone has any questions shoot them over to our Facebook page or email us. All our information is on our website. Thanks for the interest!

Seems as if this binding system could be perfect for swapable sole beef boots- ski all inbounds all day your Salomon Quest/Scarpa Freedom boots with dynatoes and alpine heels on the boots. You get to ski a totally solid binding and not deal with the collective TGR shaming of using a Marker binding.

In the afternoon, when the pow is no longer PHAT inbounds, you can click in the dynafit toes on the CAST system, skin 500′ feet uphill and then ski like a FWT athlete or internet tough guy dentist on the down. 😀

Conceptually it is a great idea for hard chargers who are using mostly mechanized access and then need uphill floatation for skinning out of a flat area or accessing the top 500′ feet of ridge.

I’m wondering how this pans out in practice? How many people actually need a binding like this rather than a Duke (or Dynafits for that matter?)

Any idea on price?

Hallvard
February 11th, 2013 12:28 pm

Have you tried making a Trekker Tech instead? In other words a trekker thing with a tech binding mounted on top instead of the big metal frame. You’ll get higher off the ski, but your bindings will be securly mounted in the ski, no play and probably less icing.

Wyatt
February 11th, 2013 12:30 pm

“These boys love their lathe and it shows.”

If they built that on a lathe, I would applaud their skill but laugh at their choice of tool. 😀

Nice machining either way.

Joe Risi
February 11th, 2013 12:47 pm

Wyatt – Supposedly they used a mix of CNC tooling, Lathe work, and welding…

Lar’s Dad John (Director of Mad River Glen ski patrol) has obviously been teaching his boys a thing or two around the machine shop.

Brian
February 11th, 2013 1:20 pm

Looks nice. I’d say if there was a jester or something with an adjustable height toe they’d be perfect with boots like the Technica Cochise.

David B
February 11th, 2013 3:18 pm

More power to the boys.

If we don’t have people pushing the envelope then we stagnate. There is a market for this type of device.

I would be interested to see what this evolves into a a couple of years.

It’s another angle on what the tech binding folks are playing with now. Effective release and bomber downhill combined with tech uphill capabilities. It’s a race to the finish line.

Dan Powers
February 11th, 2013 5:14 pm

They may be from Vermont, but CAST world headquarters is in Driggs, right next door to 22 Designs and ReCaps.

Not sure if this was made clear, but the retrofit tech fittings are only for the toe, and only for touring. I suppose they could figure out a way to retro all the boot fittings good enough for downhill, but that’s totally not the point of this system.

Jeff
February 11th, 2013 9:28 pm

Here is something. I was thinking the other day that I never should have gotten rid of my old Silvretta bindings and it brought up the idea of a crampon type devise that would clip on a ice climbing boot and have them clip into my Dynafits. I am wanting to tour into a climb and not have to carry my climbing boots just for the climb. Any ideas out there.

Jq
February 11th, 2013 10:19 pm

A pickup with Vermont plates picked me up hitchhiking on Teton Pass today. I noticed and asked about the boot on the back seat retro-fitted with a tech toe insert but no heel piece. I got part of the story in the 10 minute ride but without seeing the ski I did not get the full story or the point. Small world. Carry on.

Is there a website for CAST or a way to contact them and stay in the loop more?

Will be interesting to see how many people switch over to a setup like this. I currently ride a Dynafit setup on my tour skis and rossi FKS on everything else, this seems like the perfect blend. Next year looks to be about 80% touring so the big question is can this setup work great for someone touring the majority of the time? For myself weight isn’t a huge factor as much as performance, but I’m over the weight of a Duke, after two years on Dynafit i can’t go back

Starky
February 11th, 2013 11:46 pm

Great job guys. Looking forward to getting a pair.

Drew Tabke
February 12th, 2013 7:14 am

MFDs, Dukes, and Guardians, missed the boat long ago. CAST is the ideal solution (or at least direction) for agressive backcountry skiers.

I’ve been on prototypes for the past 3 years and generally use the same pair of skis for everything, riding lifts, sidecountry, and long backcountry tours. The touring efficiency of a tech binding, even with our minimal added weight, is much greater than other plate style touring bindings. I would not go back to a plate style (Duke, MFD, Guardian) after touring on tech bindings, however a full tech setup simply doesn’t hold up on the down especially with the more solid boots I prefer.

While the system lends itself well to resort skiing and sidecountry missions. We didn’t designed the system as a sidecountry solution. It is meant to be toured on a majority of the time with no compromise for hiking or skiing. I personally don’t have a seasons pass at any resort this season. The majority of my time not spent traveling and competing on the FWT is in the backcountry.

As far as boots go, the conversion system simply allows skiers to use their preference of boots instead of having to settle on what boot manufacturers are providing. We’ve developed a rubber soled lifter with a front tech fitting that meets the ISO 5355 Din standard in hopes boot manufacturers will follow suit, eliminating the need for interchangeable soles (K2 just did this). Until then we will perform conversions in house as well as distribute parts to boot fitters across the country.

Thanks for the support and keep the discussion going, feedback is always appreciated.

Brian
February 12th, 2013 11:03 am

too much gear; not enough skiing

WHERE ARE THE TRIP REPORTS???

XXX_er
February 12th, 2013 11:25 am

I have 2 questions for CAST:

In light of the recent problems we have seen with tech fittings are you sourcing dynafit brand tech fittings, if not what brand??

If you ARE using dynafit tech fittings great and what do they cost ?

Not something this skinny old fart needs but I appreciate the sound engineering … great idea !

trollanski
February 12th, 2013 11:50 am

There are a handfull of rippers at every area who need these, esp. because they are ripping on hard snow too. Great job boys! Hope you’ve got some patents in the works. Agree with Drew, however the IDEAL is subject to one’s situation. Just how aggressive is aggressive? Horleifson seems plenty. Dynafits are fine for soft snow. If you’re still worried about coming out, pull up the toe lever, and you are at about DIN 16. Personally haven’t needed 12+ DIN for a while now, and my shop employee deal on the Guardians made them a suitable, cost effective choice for my old Katanas. Just takes it little more time to get to the pillow zone….or just take the DPS w/the Dynafits. Found out back in my 30’s that if I was blowing out of the toes at anything past about 8.5 I wasn’t skiing right. Have always needed the heels cranked up for landing air. Point being, you may need say DIN 14 for explosive hits at speed, but where are you at then on a weird slow twisting fall late in the day in the trees while tired and skiing mank? Fact is when you’re young, you’ve got everything to prove and nothing to lose, when you’re old you’ve got nothing to prove, and and everything to lose. IT ALL DEPENDS….Just glad I can still enjoy dropping through tight pillowed trees in my late 40’s b/c I was carefull.

Eric
February 12th, 2013 12:19 pm

I like the idea.

It’s too cumbersome for me for normal touring (I’m not an aggressive backcountry skier), but would be a nice solution for my resort set up. I’d prefer to avoid a plate style binding, but every once in a while when I want to be able to tour on my resort skis, this would work really well.

XXX_er,
we developed our own tech fitting integrated into a rubber lifter which is designed to deal with the force generated by touring. (touring actually generates more force on the toe fitting than a tech setup in ski mode) We will convert boots in house as well as distribute parts to bootfitters across the country. Varying between shops, the conversion should cost around $150.

Dimitri
February 12th, 2013 1:07 pm

really looks like a great concept, interesting to see where this goes over the next few seasons for sidecountry rigs.

Silas Chickering-Ayers: you guys shredded all the phillips screws on that toe unit conversion, or was that done deliberately?

Eric
February 12th, 2013 1:13 pm

The P18 alone weighs 1235g per binding according to a TGR thread. So this clearly isn’t for weight weenies, but I still have to wonder, why bother with the cost, weight and complexity of a full on tech binding toe if it only gets used for touring? Shouldn’t they be using something much simpler along the lines of some of the Maurelli et. al. rando race toes? I think including a toe with this binding would make it a lot more accessible, and I’m assuming Dynafit isn’t going to sell just the toes anytime soon. With a lighter, cheaper touring attachment that you would barely notice in your pack, and assuming the plates weigh around 100 grams per ski, this could start to be very enticing indeed to the Duke crowd (about 1334g per ski). I would still worry about icing in the plates, but reportedly the Duke also has this problem. If they can get the binding to market under $500 I think we could see a real challenger to Marker and Solomon in the beef binding arena.

Dynafit does sell the toes by themselves. Decent market for it for splitboarders.

Keep driving innovation guys. Cool idea.

Eric
February 12th, 2013 1:43 pm

Lee,
Foot firmly in mouth about the Dynafit toes. I still think these guys could reduce cost and complexity by making their own toe unit. They could possibly integrate it with the plate that they have screwed to the Dynafit toe now, but why reinvent the wheel I suppose.
I also like to see small outfits driving innovation, it definitely keeps the big guys on their toes!

Looking much improved from the prototypes I’ve seen floating around, nice work.

One often overlooked aspect of beef bindings is the margin of safety in certain circumstances. Take the terrain outside the gates at JHMR, for example- you can get to a lot of it with established bootpacks, so a lot of people ski back there with their regular alpine setup. But if you’re the last skier in a group and you’re caught in a slide, you better hope your partners have some way of reaching you whether it’s MFD’s, Dukes, or these. Even trekkers would be better than postholing to reach a buried partner.

Sure seems to me that these will tour better and ski better than anything currently in the category.

Eric,
We are currently working on our own toe very much like the Maruelli, Gignoux, rando race toe, as it obviously makes the most sense with our system. We are shooting for the system price at $250-300. We can include Dynafit toes but it certainly raises the cost ($180 a pair) and weight. We hope to have our own toes done as soon as possible and save everyone a bit of money.
Thanks for the interest.

Frank, I’d agree. Only trouble with this sort of setup is swapping, while fairly fast, is still somewhat fiddly compared to changing mode with an AT binding. But used for the right purpose, I don’t see what’s not to love. I’ve heard we’ll see some other solutions along these same lines. Our work is never done (grin)!

Since the boot toe fittings don’t really have to be designed for safety release, nor does the toe unit, it seems like it would be super easy to come up with a dedicated toe unit instead of using a Dynafit. Come to think of it, why try to imitate a tech binding at all? Aside from needing some kind of “fuse” release when in touring mode (to prevent damage in a fall or let you out in an avalanche) it seems to me that a very simple system could be devised that was much easier to produce than trying to use a tech fitting just for touring. On the other hand… there are going to be a lot of really nice beef boots that have tech fittings, so come to think of it perhaps better to stay with the defacto standard.

Definitely fiddly, Lou, but having watched guys on the prototypes switch, I’d say it isn’t much slower than the Duke. Certainly quicker than a splitboard switch 🙂 And it isn’t fiddly at all if all they do is stay in the backpack for emergency use in the sidecountry or for snowmo laps.

What about a full swivel toe piece. Tech binding one side and alpine the other (somewhat integrated). Tour in the tech side, flick a switch, spin the toe piece 180 degrees and step into the alpine toe piece for the downhill.

Work on that someone!

Dirk
February 12th, 2013 8:29 pm

So maybe some better brake retention? rubber bands are a bit unreliable, just tuning skis, I seem to brake em all the time. Plus, just wait til a band goes flying off into the wind on some ridge……. Perhaps a machined “U” behind the brakes would work? Always nice to see some folks working on new stuff.

Random Joe
February 12th, 2013 11:18 pm

Great work the CAST crew, love this new direction, can’t wait to give it a whirl.

I’m addicted to the dynafit toe piece for touring, but am not totally satisfied with the Dynafit setup in downhill mode, being a bigger bigger guy on Voile Dirifter width skis, I find that unless I lock the toe down, if I happen to hit hard/firm snow at high speed, I will sooner or later get prematurely ejected.
So the the fact that my Dynafit Radical bindings are supposedly DIN 12 equivalent seems irrelevant, when I have to go DIN-finity by locking the toe piece on the down hill.

Drew Tabke
February 13th, 2013 3:23 pm

While I’m still fired up,
DIN is a useful concept on a testing bench, but that’s about it. Just because you can set your Rad FTs to 12, it doesn’t mean anything for the binding’s performance. If by some tweak you could set them to 20, they’d still ski the same – poorly. Set Dukes to 16 and they still ski like Dukes – poorly. Nor do I trust the Marker release mechanism — I’d much rather ski my Pivot 18s at 8 than a pair of Dukes at 16.

Which is why the CAST gets me so stoked. Perhaps the weightweenies don’t care, but weight on the downhill can improve performance. Having a solid, reliable, even *gasp* heavy alpine binding attaching you to your sticks is the appropriate way to go downhill at fast speeds.

[insult redacted, Drew, please, no need for that, other places welcome it, go there if you like]

Baaaa-aaa

dmr
February 13th, 2013 3:50 pm

Drew,

I’m with you that an alpine race binding skis better, but I find it a stretch to say that a Dynafit binding (well a TLT Speed in any case) skis poorly. I’ve found that the Dynafit binding performs well to excellent in all but the most firm conditions where indeed the mass alpine race design are “needed”.

Dirk
February 13th, 2013 8:03 pm

[redaction] But anywho maybe the rubber bands are the best solution. Just saying, for all the burley cnc machining that went into the toe/heel plates, the point of failure on this rig is still gonna be some flimsy rubber band.

Drew, could you be specific on what aspect of a Dynafit Radical skis “poorly?” In my experience, all tech bindings create a very firm attachment of boot to ski, but with no damping. I’ve never minded that feel, in fact I’ve always liked it, but with stiffer boots it can get a bit harsh in comparison to bindings with more give. Is that what you’re talking about?

Also, please, we don’t do name calling insults here. Other forums for that, no need to imitate them.

Thanks, lou

Drew Tabke
February 14th, 2013 8:14 am

I formally redact my name calling.

And as far as my “Dynafits ski poorly” stance, I am a bit of a hypocrite. I’m in Zermatt on a pair of Plum Race 165s w/ TLT5 Mtns right now.

Dynafits definitely aren’t all bad on the down. I appreciate how rigid the interface generally is between boot and binding compared to the flex and play that you notice with Fritschis and Dukes. I find that the DIN release values are reliable, and locking your toe out is a frightening yet consistent benefit.

I think the negative performance aspects stem almost completely from the lack of dampening. A regular alpine binding dampens the interface between ski and foot, and also lengthens the surface that the force is being input into the ski. With Dynafits, virtually all of the force coming from the snow into the ski makes it into your feet as well. And the footprint of the binding is so small that I find the ski begins to flex unnaturally close to the toe of the boot.

I ski on Look Pivots (the kind pictured in the CAST pictures) which have a dynamic release range. Basically your boot can start to come out of the heel, and then come back if you don’t pass a threshold. With Dynafit the system feels completely static. You’re in and then you’re out. This effectively is a function of dampening as well. The system can take force, disperse it, and carry on.

Finally, though I haven’t looked closely at this, I wonder how much torsional force the pincers of the toe binding are putting into the boot, versus a regular alpine binding which has much more surface-to-surface contact.

Drew, thanks, that is _exactly_ my opinion of the difference between a tech binding and an alpine binding and something we’ve covered here many times. Difference of opinion is probably how important this is to the skiing experience and safety. In my opinion, it’s a non-issue for most skiers. One other thing we need to keep in mind is that the tech bindings do have elasticity, just not much, especially in vertical movement at the heel. That’s why I’ve never recommended tech bindings for aggressive bump skiing or hucking big. In those modes it is wonderful if not essential to have a big long-travel spring holding your heel down that can take major force, move, but not release.

Hear you on the release lock. Good, but scary to know you could really bust yourself up in a fall. That said, we should all keep in mind the fact that tech binding release lock doesn’t lock upward release at the heel.

Also, thanks for understanding our style of chatting here.

P.S., it occurs to me that as boots get bigger and stiffer, people might notice how non-damping tech bindings are. When the boots are softer, having that firm binding is only a benefit that’s had the somewhat hidden advantage of making modern AT touring boots perform much better than one would expect, or experience on a sloppy binding such as Fritschi, or worse.

Regarding the rubber bands, they’re not really “rubber bands” like you get at the post office, they’re big burly things that actually work pretty well. They’re easy to misplace or lose or forget at home, however, so yeah, an integrated brake clip/retractor would be nice.

Dirk
February 14th, 2013 11:34 am

As a weightweenie I got to thinking, why not have the heel piece on a quick release plate as well? Might be nice to ditch the weight on the feet for the up hill. Also you could use the system interchangeably amongst a quiver of skis then. Maybe the rear heel would jack the ramp angle?

John
February 15th, 2013 11:59 am

@Dirk – I agree it would be great to have a heel piece that releases as well. This is advantageous for both swapping bindings easily and less weight while climbing. This allows for a simple field repair on long tours if you carry a backup set of bindings.

Also, it would be great to have the new marker lord (or SP?) as a downhill binding option, as it is designed to accommodate both AT boots. I’ve been happy skiing my Maestrale RS at the resort and it would be great to only travel with one pair of boots.

Keep up the great work guys and I’ll be looking for the kickstarter page …

Revisiting this thread, I am disappointed to see that Lou went back to redact my February 13th, 2013 3:23 pm post, and then add information to his February 14th, 2013 5:41 am post. But alas, its the internets.

950 for a binding setup using used parts? am I drastically overestimating the cost?

Keep up with the innovation!

mikeL
March 4th, 2014 3:47 pm

i recall hiking for turns at first big snow at mrg in ’07 and saw lars skinning on a homemade setup with turntable bindings on top.
good to see that this concept is coming to fruition.
especially after my dukes blew up on me (via a snapping of both plastic toe plates just in front of the 5th screw), causing one ski to be lost for a month, and me to consider a different system.
i’m truly blessed this didn’t occur somewhere steep and exposed.
will keep an eye on this system for certain.

Andy
December 7th, 2014 11:38 am

I did not find info about it but probably will not work…still checking here 🙂

Scarpa freedom sl + look pivot + cast will not work right?

Look does not like scarpa freedom sl boots?

Thanks!

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