who wants a FM radio? i mean come on. next youll be wanting VCR output.

"Audience

The growth in stations, and the possible erosion in local journalistic content, has not materially transformed how many people listen to radio. The 94 percent figure calculated by Arbitron has stayed virtually unchanged for the last five years, the time from which data are available."

i have no idea what id do with HDMI output. transferring videos to cell phone is something you never see any one do. hooking your phone up to a tv? completely useless, when have you or any one else came across a moment when you said, damn if only i could hook my phone up to a tv.

It would be great to be able to use an iPhone as a portable disk drive. It would be even greater if it would plug directly into the TV/Entertainment system. Most movies are compressed to 700 mB so several would fit on an iPhone.

People take videos on their phones all the time. What's wrong with being able to show them on a nice screen?

It will be interesting to see the camera 'picture' comparison to other phones.

That is the only real test. All this theoretical nattering about pixel size and number ignores that fact that the lenses are vitally important to a camera. It doesn't really matter what CCD is used if the lens sucks.

The iPhone 3GS supports component video output, like recent iPods. Component video is significantly higher quality than composite video. The iPad and iPhone 4 support 1024x768 video for displays and projectors. HDMI done right would be nice, but HDMI done poorly is not an advantage to iPod + VGA video.

What makes you think that Apple would release "HDMI done poorly"? Do you have any examples of HDMI done poorly?

So you're required to carry around 'game cartridges' for any complex 3D games, or do such games not exist on the Android platform?

I have a small'ish list of apps and games installed, 3 of which are over 100 MB, and two of which are over 200 MB. I have about a gig total in apps and games. I would be required to 'swap out a card' to work around this issue?

all i can say once the newness wears off the EVO and you get tired of the buggy ness and patch work of android... you'll be back, they always come back

Broad reaching statements like these irk me. When I had the choice, I went with Android, mostly because it seemed more open, and it is. While I don't know if it's "geek phone" per se--you can use the stock build just as well as if you wanted to root it, I do know it's a solid choice. I have never regretted my purchase, and iPhone 4 is only alluring to me for the better screen, which no one yet knows in real world terms how well it will operate by way of battery drain.

I wonder what percentage of people root their iPhones to get away from Apple's walled garden? That would speak to usability a little, I think.

Either way, anyone who makes a choice to buy something other than an Apple product is not automatically making a wrong choice, nor will they "be back" having seen Android. Honestly, the Google/Android solution is very elegant and pretty damned slick for far less cash when you take into account the cost of MobileMe and many apps.

m.

And, I'm not ashamed to say, I'm totally a Mac Fanboi. I love my multiple Mac computers, my AirPort extreme, and recently acquired an iPad. I just don't think Apple's done mobile as well or as open as they could.

Yeah I'm interested in the reviews as well. I have a Droid now but I'm looking at the iPhone 4 and the Droid X and weighing the pros/cons of both. I'm actually a member of this forum and an Android forum, it's funny how deeply entrenched the fanboys are on both sides. People spend way too much energy trying to validate their purchases by convincing others that their phone of choice is the best.

Also, I'm not exactly sure how anyone expected an article from a site called Apple Insider to be objective in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Povilas

Really? because it sure doesn't look that way.

How does it not look that way? Because I am willing to say good things about companies besides apple? I've given apple credit when it was due, just like I do with android. The people around here, for the most part, just spend time trying to rag on it blindly--often without even trying it. Personally, I like to keep an open mind. Except for Windows Mobile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by machei

Broad reaching statements like these irk me. When I had the choice, I went with Android, mostly because it seemed more open, and it is. While I don't know if it's "geek phone" per se--you can use the stock build just as well as if you wanted to root it, I do know it's a solid choice. I have never regretted my purchase, and iPhone 4 is only alluring to me for the better screen, which no one yet knows in real world terms how well it will operate by way of battery drain.

I wonder what percentage of people root their iPhones to get away from Apple's walled garden? That would speak to usability a little, I think.

Either way, anyone who makes a choice to buy something other than an Apple product is not automatically making a wrong choice, nor will they "be back" having seen Android. Honestly, the Google/Android solution is very elegant and pretty damned slick for far less cash when you take into account the cost of MobileMe and many apps.

m.

And, I'm not ashamed to say, I'm totally a Mac Fanboi. I love my multiple Mac computers, my AirPort extreme, and recently acquired an iPad. I just don't think Apple's done mobile as well or as open as they could.

The issue is with both sides. It pretty much starts with converted fanboys who try to convince those who havent made the jump to a new OS that they're stupid. At the same time the "loyalists" need to justify their purchase by stating that the opposing OS is absolutely horrible, even if it isn't the case (it usually isn't). I feel like fanboys view their phones as extensions of themselves and when someone attacks the phone they're using the feel like its an attack on themselves lol.

That is the only real test. All this theoretical nattering about pixel size and number ignores that fact that the lenses are vitally important to a camera. It doesn't really matter what CCD is used if the lens sucks.

You're right, the CCD doesn't matter because they don't use CCD. As for the size of pixels and BSI, they are important factors, but since the the iPhones use a larger pixel size than other phones you have to say how it doesn't matter if a phone can capture more or less photons. Well, at least your anti-Apple rhetoric is predictable

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

t I don't know what they are doing to try and protect software from being stolen.

I think that Google will do exactly the same thing as Apple does to try and protect software from being stolen.

Nothing. On the Mac.

How's that working out for Mac developers? OK?

Is the mobile software industry different, such that software vending need be done by a sole source, lest there be piracy? Since the earliest days of personal computing, Apple has done nothing "to try and protect software from being stolen". What is different now?

That's exactly my point. 2.2 is out now and MAYBE my daughter will get 2.1. MAYBE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v3

Anyway, the same issue exists across generations with iPhones. They don't all "just work" the same with the newest software.

That's not true. When Apple releases a software update, it's available to all iPhones that support it. I just updated my 2 year old 3G to IOS 4.0 last night-the first day it was available. For Android, when a new version comes out, NO ONE gets it until the carrier and handset manufacturer support it.

That has nothing to do with the fact that new software versions may not be fully functional on previous phones. That's obviously true of ANY system. For example, if Apple adds an FM tuner to iPhone 5 and iOS 5, it will obviously not work on previous phones. That's irrelevant to the fragmentation issue being discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v3

And yes, there is fragmentation. I wouldn't exactly say Android was better for average consumers. If you aren't aware that your phone is a low tier phone, you're going to have issues. All of the "high end" phones are getting 2.2 or have had it leaked (for the purposes of the average consumer leaks are irrelevant though). Unlike the iPhone, you can't just pick it up and expect it to be the same. You can pick up two phones and they'll have completely different features at times, which can be a positive and a negative. But people who are up to date with tech (not the average consumer) would know this. I'd lump most Android users with the people who jailbreak their iPhones--people who like to mess with their phone just for the hell of it.

I have no problem with that. You're simply confirming that I (and others) have said for a long time. Android has no value to the average user, although a tiny percentage of "my phone has more features than your phone" geeks might like it. For the average user, iPhone is a far better choice for all those reasons - and more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v3

Google is actually working on removing the need for all the custom UIs from the new Gingerbread OS, which should solve this issue kind of. Everyone will be able to get the newest software at once, but just like the iphone they wont all necessarily be able to fully use it on their new phones.

Sorry, but "Google is working on it" doesn't mean that the fragmentation issue is solved. It simply means that even Google admits that it's a real problem. Come back IF the problem is solved.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v3

You take issue with the fact the all the phones have different features, but I don't see that as a negative (except I agree on the premise that it makes updating phones much slower). I like having the option to choose based on features I want (I know we all like the iPhone here but lets not pretend it does EVERYTHING--although for some individual's purposes it very well may). This can lead to bad purchases and ruin the opinion of android though, like windows. Apple never has this problem because by dictating what the consumer wants they dont have room for error. That works for them very well, not so much with people who like to endlessly alter their devices. Apple is smart to avoid fragmentation. Various options allow too much room for consumers to choose, and unfortunately the average consumer isn't too tech savvy. People will probably buy the backflip after seeing the "Droid" commercials, and frankly the backflip plain sucks. I'm not sure why anyone would buy it willingly (in your case I'm sure it's because you have an iphone and got an android phone based on provider, AT&T's android offerings are complete crap).

You're completely missing the point. I never said that a variety of phones with different features is a negative. That's your imagination.

What I've said is that you can't have it both ways. Take your choice (pick 1):

1. You admit that all Android phones are different and that there's no way to lump them together - in which case you can not use 'Android sales' in comparison to iPhone sales. Pick your favorite phone and compare ITS sales to the iPhone

or

2. Lump all Android devices together - but then you have to admit that they're all different and you have all the confusion that entails. Also, if you're going to do that, you really need to add in all the iPod Touches that run iOS, as well if you're interested in market share in terms of internet usage or application sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by st3v3

Oh and BTW I'm not an "Android person". I'm a "whoever offers me the best phone for my needs at the time" person. I have no company allegiance.

Thou doth protest too much.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

And who in the heck would buy an android phone with 1.5 when they're up to 2.1, except someone who's technologically clueless? It's like those people who buy cheap emachines PCs and then condemn PCs as a whole.

JRAGOSTA's daughter bought one recently (a Backflip). He says it is not a bad phone. I've not heard that anywhere else.

I wouldn't have bought a device like that, but I think most people who do are not people who care abut what the device many or may not do someday: They just care about its current capabilities.

That's exactly my point. 2.2 is out now and MAYBE my daughter will get 2.1. MAYBE.

That's not true. When Apple releases a software update, it's available to all iPhones that support it. I just updated my 2 year old 3G to IOS 4.0 last night-the first day it was available. For Android, when a new version comes out, NO ONE gets it until the carrier and handset manufacturer support it.

That has nothing to do with the fact that new software versions may not be fully functional on previous phones. That's obviously true of ANY system. For example, if Apple adds an FM tuner to iPhone 5 and iOS 5, it will obviously not work on previous phones. That's irrelevant to the fragmentation issue being discussed.

I have no problem with that. You're simply confirming that I (and others) have said for a long time. Android has no value to the average user, although a tiny percentage of "my phone has more features than your phone" geeks might like it. For the average user, iPhone is a far better choice for all those reasons - and more.

Sorry, but "Google is working on it" doesn't mean that the fragmentation issue is solved. It simply means that even Google admits that it's a real problem. Come back IF the problem is solved.

You're completely missing the point. I never said that a variety of phones with different features is a negative. That's your imagination.

What I've said is that you can't have it both ways. Take your choice (pick 1):

1. You admit that all Android phones are different and that there's no way to lump them together - in which case you can not use 'Android sales' in comparison to iPhone sales. Pick your favorite phone and compare ITS sales to the iPhone

or

2. Lump all Android devices together - but then you have to admit that they're all different and you have all the confusion that entails. Also, if you're going to do that, you really need to add in all the iPod Touches that run iOS, as well if you're interested in market share in terms of internet usage or application sales.

Thou doth protest too much.

I feel like you're continuing an argument you might have been having with another poster on this site, because I never disagreed that Android has huge fragmentation.Also, I never compared Android sales to iphone sales and I never mentioned market share in terms of internet usage or application sales. I really don't care about the popularity of the phone, I don't have stock in any of these companies.

And I agree for the average consumer the iPhone is better. I wouldn't say that Android has NO value to the average consumer though, I'm pretty sure we both know that's a bit of an over exaggeration. I feel the people that jailbreak their iphones would fit in a similar category as those for whom Android would be the best fit. Also, I wouldn't call Android users "my phone has more features than your phone" geeks. For some, simply using their phone is enough (People who leave their phone stock). For others, like those who would benefit most from Android and also the jailbreakers, it's fun to unlock your phone and see what it can do. To each his own. I think what's really the case is wanting to carve out their own experience.The average consumer isn't tech savvy enough to care about the world outside of Apple's predesigned experience. Honestly, the average consumer is just an idiot when it comes to technology. Apple knows that, and that is why they don't "leave it up to the user. Apple products are popular because Steve Jobs' iron grip dictatorship over the user experience creates a safe zone--which is good for the average person and bad for techies. Most people would actually benefit from a predesigned experience due to lack of knowledge, because when the average consumer is left to their own merits on an open system chaos tends to ensue.

Why isn't the Samsung Galaxy S in the mix? Comparing the iPhone 4 to a phones released half a year ago (like the Nexus One) seem like a stacked comparison.

1) Clearly this is comparing the iPhone 4, due out this week, to Android phones that are already available in the US. Note the use of "Droid" in the chart, which is only licensed to Verizon. A phone that is only(?) in Singapore and not due to make it to the rest of the world until the end of the year isn't exactly a contender for people's money right now.

2) The Verizon Droid Incredible and Sprint EVO 4G were not released a half-a-year ago so your accusation of a stacked comparison is a fallacy unless all phones were "out of date". The inclusion of the Moto Droid and Nexus One are quite clear. The Droid is by far the best selling Android phone in the US and the Nexus One is still the poster child for Android phones as it's Google's pride and joy and has gotten Froyo v2.2 before all others. This gives them great reason to be in this list along with the new Android rivals also represented.

3) Early next year when new Android phones smartly comes out about halfway through its yearly lifecycle they will still be pitted against the half-a-year old iPhone 4. Even the EVO 4G which recently came out was compared to the iPhone 3GS more than the iPhone 4; and rightly so as the iPhone 4 was still not in hand or on the verge of shipping.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

One thing that many of you have failed to notice is that Google is a fifth columnist.

It has allowed the Android platform to be used as the springboard for Asian competitors to colonize the American tech marketplace. Look at the Android smartphones: Asian Android makers thump American Android players by miles. HTC's Evo leaves Google's Nexus One and Motorola Droid in the dust.

Asian players don't give a hoot about rhetorics such as "open" and "free choice" and they are happy that American players are tying their own hands and feet with such nonsense. They are getting a free lunch at the expense of American stupidity and naivety.

Asian competitors are learning fast and moving up the food chain while American players are content with the same mediocrity and lack of imagination. Soon another industry will be lost and Asian manufacturers will exact their pound of flesh from their former tormentor.

So you're required to carry around 'game cartridges' for any complex 3D games, or do such games not exist on the Android platform?

I have a small'ish list of apps and games installed, 3 of which are over 100 MB, and two of which are over 200 MB. I have about a gig total in apps and games. I would be required to 'swap out a card' to work around this issue?

What are you talking about? Game cartridge?
The removable memory is a tiny micro SD card which is inside the phone. Most folks never mess with it.

HTC makes the Nexus One and the Incredible and the EVO. The sensitivity issue they're talking about is when you're not holding the phone and even then, in dry climates. Not a typical occurrence. Doesn't affect most people.

What is with this site an Android people? Who are you and why are you here? Nobody cares what you think, about your own phone, or the iPhone.

The AI chart was a great look at the basics, hardware wise. Software, there is no comparison. Apple's software ecosystem is decades ahead, and if you don't realize that, the iPhone probably isn't for you in the first place. So, no point in being here!

I'm here because I've been an iPhone user and admirer for 2 years. I develop iPhone apps. I have an iPod touch. I have a Macbook and a new Macbook Pro and also develop Mac software.

Just because I own and use many Apple products doesn't mean I do not recognize other good products when I see them.

And in general I am concerned when I see articles that are so biased that they serve more to confuse than inform.

iPhone still has some advantages. Android has its share of warts. They have very different philosophies. Hard to tell how it will shake out.

But its unfortunate when there is no one left in the middle that can discuss differences. It seems that the internet and media today thrive only on the extreme opinions. Thats how they get ratings. Thats how to get noticed. Provide a boring informational article that provides true information about competing products and no one will care or notice. Provide an overly biased article trying to plug one product and fanboys come out from all sides.

I can tell you plenty of bad things about Android, the phones and the ecosystem. But not the ones listed in this article. I can say lots of good things about iPhone, but not the ones listed in this article.

I wish there was a less inflammatory way to share accurate information.

You're right, the CCD doesn't matter because they don't use CCD. As for the size of pixels and BSI, they are important factors, but since the the iPhones use a larger pixel size than other phones you have to say how it doesn't matter if a phone can capture more or less photons. Well, at least your anti-Apple rhetoric is predictable

oops. CMOS. Thanks.

My point is that no matter how many or how few photons can be captured, it doesn't matter if the lens is not good quality. One can take a 100 megapixel picture with pixel density up the wazoo, but if you use a crappy lens, the picture will look like crap.

That is why I said that the only real test is the final picture quality, and not the specs of the pixel size.

... Google doesn't get it, either. Why do you think there are dozens of incompatible phones and phones still coming out with ancient versions of Android? Heck, phones are still being sold with Android 1.5 and no hope of getting 2.1, much less 2.2.

I actually think the fragmentation and vendors leapfrogging each other with phones, OS versions, features is intentional on Google's part. They don't want any one handset vendor to gain any advantage over any other, otherwise, they risk loosing some control of Android. By playing them against each other and feeding features to them piecemeal, Google keeps them pretty much where it wants them. As far as the developers and user experience goes, Google doesn't give a damn about that. They know they can always sucker developers in with their faux open approach and carriers will push their phones on unsuspecting users because it profits them to do so. It's all about Google keeping it's information collection operation fed and using Android to harvest data and rake in ad revenues.

One thing that many of you have failed to notice is that Google is a fifth columnist.

It has allowed the Android platform to be used as the springboard for Asian competitors to colonize the American tech marketplace. Look at the Android smartphones: Asian Android makers thump American Android players by miles. HTC's Evo leaves Google's Nexus One and Motorola Droid in the dust.

Uh...you do realize the Nexus One is a HTC Passion right?

And the iPhone is built in China?

Quote:

Asian players don't give a hoot about rhetorics such as "open" and "free choice" and they are happy that American players are tying their own hands and feet with such nonsense. They are getting a free lunch at the expense of American stupidity and naivety.

Asian competitors are learning fast and moving up the food chain while American players are content with the same mediocrity and lack of imagination. Soon another industry will be lost and Asian manufacturers will exact their pound of flesh from their former tormentor.

Not saying it will never happen but there have been many past predictions that Japan and India would destroy the US in the tech dominance and now China. Strong competitors yes, but somehow, even with the fabs in Asia and big research and tech centers in Bangalore we still seem to be top dog.

Why do people even bring up the Backflip? The phone is free with a new 2-year contract. You can even get the Droid for free after a new contract on Wirefly. The cheapest iPhone is an 8GB 3G refurb for 49.99 (hardware which is 2 years old).

I think comparing to the Droid X hardware (since it's not even out yet like the iPhone 4) would be much more fair and at the same price point. Really this hardware comparison should be between the Evo, Droid X, and iPhone 4. They are all coming out +/- 30 days of each other and at similar pricepoints.

The Droid is 8 months old and its hardware is being compared to a phone not even in public yet.

Fragmentation is much more due to carriers than Google. It's a downfall of having a choice in your provider and hardware and price point. Small price to pay for that choice to some.

How does it not look that way? Because I am willing to say good things about companies besides apple? I've given apple credit when it was due, just like I do with android. The people around here, for the most part, just spend time trying to rag on it blindly--often without even trying it. Personally, I like to keep an open mind. Except for Windows Mobile.

WinPhone 7 looks really good. In some ways much preferred over Android. Say what you want about MS but they are a dev centric company and there's a gazillion XNA/WPF/C# devs that are looking forward to developing with their native tool chains vs ObjC or Java.

But its unfortunate when there is no one left in the middle that can discuss differences.
...

I wish there was a less inflammatory way to share accurate information.

I think that some people here are very defensive, but for reasons I don't fully understand.

It has been proposed that some of them have blurred the line between the crap they own and their personal identities, so that if a bad point of their phone is mentioned, it becomes a personal insult. I've seen evidence of that here.

Another theory is that Apple was an industry rounding error for decades, and its fans constantly had to defend their choice of platform. Now that Apple has significant market penetration in non-computer products, they relive their past, but they now play the part of their former tormentors. That one seems more far-fetched to me, but I don't really know.

What I find especially amusing is how many of the former Apple defenses are now turned on their head due to the favorable market share that Apple has in its portable CE devices. For example, back in the days when there was relatively little software available for the Mac, a common defense was that Mac software was high quality, so that lack of variety in Mac apps meant nothing.

But now Apple sells billions of craplications for the iPhone, and the former "quality is better than quantity" defense is no longer applicable. Now the line is "More software, More choices: That is Better."

Another example: Back in the old days (and even today) people defend the Mac hardware against charges that it is not very powerful. But when the iPhone matured with the 3GS, it was easily among the best and most powerful hardware on the market, and Apple people magically started touting the iPhone's (then) unique and powerful hardware.

I find the mobile space to be very exciting right now, with lots of things turning upside down very quickly. Everything old (like cut and paste?) becomes new again. These days people are again arguing the merits of thin clients vs local storage, apps running on servers instead of the local hardware, open OSs versus locked-down ones, etc.

And pocketable computers are finally starting to become very, very cool. I bought my first one back in the mid-1990's, a Sony Treo, and today's choices make that device look like a Model T.

I'm here because I've been an iPhone user and admirer for 2 years. I develop iPhone apps. I have an iPod touch. I have a Macbook and a new Macbook Pro and also develop Mac software.

Just because I own and use many Apple products doesn't mean I do not recognize other good products when I see them.

And in general I am concerned when I see articles that are so biased that they serve more to confuse than inform.

iPhone still has some advantages. Android has its share of warts. They have very different philosophies. Hard to tell how it will shake out.

But its unfortunate when there is no one left in the middle that can discuss differences. It seems that the internet and media today thrive only on the extreme opinions. Thats how they get ratings. Thats how to get noticed. Provide a boring informational article that provides true information about competing products and no one will care or notice. Provide an overly biased article trying to plug one product and fanboys come out from all sides.

I can tell you plenty of bad things about Android, the phones and the ecosystem. But not the ones listed in this article. I can say lots of good things about iPhone, but not the ones listed in this article.

I wish there was a less inflammatory way to share accurate information.

Uggh. I feel the same way. These forums are ridiculous. Every non-Apple forum tries to paint the iPhone as a "toy" and every Apple forum tries to paint every Android phone (often mistaking one phone for the platform) as utterly unusable.

In reality, they are different solutions that work for different people. I was not the jailbreaking type. That would be too techie for me. And that's exactly why I got a Nexus One. Defies the stereotype doesn't it? I wanted things like my own wallpaper, widgets, folders, etc. And I didn't want to have to jailbreak (or root for Android) and violate my ToS/EULA/warranty. So I got a stock Android phone, knowing that I would not have to do anything except push the update button when the updates arrive. So I find the idea that only techies get Android to be ridiculous. Even more hypocritical is the bashing for Android being "techie" and "complicated" while the iOS is now implementing many of the same features (like folders for example) that were until now considered too complicated for the average user.

Conversely, I also don't get the argument that the iPhone is a "toy". It's not. The restrictions are purposeful and intentional and obvious. Users who have issues with them are few and far between and are usually the type who would jailbreak or be on Android anyway.

To me, all the folks who would jailbreak (pretty much every iPhone user I know save one) are people looking for more functionality. And most of the time, the functions that they were looking for, are stock in Android. That's (I think) what makes Android potent, and why Apple loosened up a bit with iOS4, with the multi-tasking, folders, wallpapers, etc.

Anyway, they both have room to improve, imho. I love how smooth iOS is. Android could definitely work on that. It's one point. But a huge one. On the Android side, I love things like notifications, live wallpapers, widgets and mifi. Those are all features and improvements, that Apple will hopefully implement in iOS5.

I look forward to enjoying both. I'm saving up for an iPad right now (or sneak in time on my girlfriend's iPad when she picks one up) and I'll be tethering off the mifi on my Nexus One. Best of both worlds.