Neither Steelhead nor Atlantics are native to the Delaware River system. Would I love to see Atlantic Salmon Restored, yes, but only in their native rivers. And that has proven to be the most expensive restoration effort undertaken and it isn't working anyway.So I say restore the native fishes and leave it at that.We already have several species of junk non natives in the Delaware River System we don't need more.Get rid of the dams and you can restore the shad, they won't use the ladders there's more than 30 years of history regarding the ladders on the Lehigh. I don't know why they though it would work in the first place. I was probably the only person that favored getting rid of the dam when they made the case for the ladders.As for TU stocking Fish, IMHO, NO TU CHAPTER regardless of the circumstances should be stocking trout in waters anywhere, TU is not a fishing Club, it is a conservation organization. PFBC raises trout let them do the stocking. TU chapters should set their sights on restoring habitat just like their charters say they will.I don't know why a TU chapter would even want to be involved in a tournament except to raise funds. In that case I suppose someone could make the argument, but I sure ah*!? won't it. The only reason a TU chapter should stock any trout or request a stocking of trout is to jump start a restoration of native fish. There is no stream that holds exotic trout that won't support natives. You cannot do a restoration of a trout stream without considering restoration of native fishes. Just MHOAtlantic Salmon were native to Lake Ontario, their land locked cousins were native to the other lakes and rivers that were tributaries. However the evidence it not wide spread evidence. Brook Trout were native to the Great Lakes and many tributaries, but you don't anyone touting restoration of brookies to the lakes. No they'd rather make the lakes a dumping ground for extra exotic fish raised in hatcheries. I could go on about the bad decisions made by fisheries guys, but I'm already exhausted.STOCKING FISH IS NOT CONSERVATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted on: 2011/2/9 19:31

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The object of a resource is to use and reuse a resource, not to use it up, have we learned nothing in over 125 years of stocking?

Ok, so all you say is fantastic and I partially agree with a bunch of it. However, we are not just a stocking organization and we do many restoration projects. Hell, look up who basically ran and is still keeping up with the Lausanne mine. I asked you for suggestions on what more we can do, instead you freaked out. You should see all of the applications for grant money we have out to do restoration work and build parks with handicap access. When you are done acting like a #OOPS# bag and would like a project to start to take shape, we would be happy to jump behind it. Thanks

Posted on: 2011/2/9 22:33

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“My mom is being eaten by a dog and there’s nothing I can do!”

I did not freak out. Keep on doing what you are doing, get the mine drainage taken care of and push ACE to do the right thing and provide more cold water for the river. mcuh of the riparian area along the river is public and it should be easy to get cooperation from PGC and DCNR on anything in the riparian zone. What needs work are the tributaries not on public land.Re-mining is a huge deal but may need to be done in many cases, focusing on the west bank side, the east bank tribs are mostly fine.Brook Trout will grow big in the river, if left to grow. Make them catch and release, all the tribs have them they will repopulate on their own.But if you put in Steelhead and Salmon the balance of the other fishes in the river will be compromised.Oh I forgot to ask, has anyone considered what will happen to the steelhead and salmon once they reach the Atlantic Ocean that is too warm for them?

Posted on: 2011/2/10 10:09

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The object of a resource is to use and reuse a resource, not to use it up, have we learned nothing in over 125 years of stocking?

Not going to have a brook trout population in decent numbers until the FEW reservoir stops warming the river during the summer months. Until, then any brook trout restoration efforts or even discussion should be tabled.

Stocking of brookies is not needed, there are enough in the tribs to populate the river if and when FEW is fixed.

Chaz wrote:There is no stream that holds exotic trout that won't support natives. You cannot do a restoration of a trout stream without considering restoration of native fishes. Just MHO

Sure you can. It is done all the time.

However, what if consideration is given and there is a decision to continue with the promotion of rainbow and brown reproduction because that is what 95% of the fishing population wants on 95% of the water?

There will be no stocking of brookies on the Lehigh this year. It will be a 50/50 of Browns and Bows.

Hopefully we will be hearing back soon on the fish ladder on the Po.

Further, I am not the one pushing for exotic species to be introduced into the river. if it would work and it would be safe for the environment in addition to a financial windfall for the local, then I would be for it. All i was saying is that there is talk of this going on through the local organizations.

Posted on: 2011/2/10 17:38

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“My mom is being eaten by a dog and there’s nothing I can do!”

If an enviromental impact statement was required for every place that was stocked there would be stockingin only a very few streams and lakes. Of course there's an impact ANYTIME you stock EXOTICS. Whole native populations on native fish collapse because of stocking. And if a fish ladder goes in at beltsville, whos going to keep the muskies out of the trout water, or the walleyes and bass. All these Exotic fishes have an imact on trout streams, it's a dirty little secret that no one talks about. A fish ladder is a very expesive and bad idea. What would be the purpose? We already know shad won't use them, and even though trout do they won't use them enough to increase the population.

Posted on: 2011/2/10 19:29

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The object of a resource is to use and reuse a resource, not to use it up, have we learned nothing in over 125 years of stocking?

Chaz, we are not looking for the fish ladder to go in at Beltzville, just thinking about that makes me laugh my ass off. We are looking at a fish ladder at the Parryville dam on the PO. I know already there are muskies above that dam, because I have put one there. The point of the fish ladder is to give the trout in the Lehigh a larger thermal refuge and spawning area. This way they do not get stuck at the dam and get slaughtered, like every year. You know there are walleys and bass in the Pohopoco water already, we would not be introducing anything. The come out of the spillway of Beltzville. I can't believe a man with your vast knowledge does not know this. The Alaskan fish ladder is little over 100grand and the state has already told us they will match the grant that we receive to do improvements. The ladder is also movable and is able to be resold if it does not produce like it's promised. Listen anytime you have an idea please let me know.

O and do not suggest we tear down the Parryville dam, it's a lost cause.

Posted on: 2011/2/10 22:04

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“My mom is being eaten by a dog and there’s nothing I can do!”

No one wants it to remain except a few board members of Palmerton Borough. They have a gravity fed pump house that they sell water from, to Horsehead corporation. Untill Horsehead stops buying water, that dam will remain. Our President has been trying to set up a meeting with the Horsehead owners to reccomend water recycling options, but they do not seem to want to listen.

The picture of the dam is not real good, but picture old wood board running verticle the whole way across. Looks like something from the 1920's, and I do not understand how it is still safe, but it is.

Posted on: 2011/2/10 23:55

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“My mom is being eaten by a dog and there’s nothing I can do!”

Steelhead, chinook, and Atlantic salmon have been tried in the Delaware system on and off since the 1880's - I don't see why they would take all that much better today. Back in the 1960's the NJ fisheries chief was all about getting steelies into the Delaware over the objections of the biologists who favored cleaning up the streams for the fish already there. This stuff goes on and on. Just a short list of the introduced fish in the Delaware system:Rainbow troutBrown troutSmallmouth bassLargemouth bassBluegillsRock bassWalleyesMuskiesChannel catfishcarpflathead catfish

Of the non-migratory native fish of the Delware the only ones that I see much of are fallfish, redbreast sunfish, and pumpkinseeds.

I don't know if there is room for seasonal migration of brookies in and out of the Delaware anymore.

LRSABecker wrote:The thing that kinda gets me is this, I was always under the assumption the TU was against stocking over wild and natives, correct? Why did the TU up near the Ausable request a large stocking of trout on the Ausable, so there would be more fish for a 2 fly contest? Also, been told they frequently request stockings on the LL. Am I just wrong?

Question.... Are the Steel programmed like the Salmon to return to their birth waters? If yes, then if the birthing was done on the Lehigh, would this not mean they would only return to the Lehigh?

Not true on either count regarding TU and the Ausable and LL. BTW, the Ausable is predominantly a stocked trout fishery anyway, very few wild trout exist in there (small broookies are prolfici in some of the tribs though.) Reason being is the sevre winters and icing up of the river each year.

Regarding the fish ladders on the Lehigh dams. They do not work that well (gfen I have observed several species of fish using them) for the shad because, according to leading shad biologists from PFBC and the Feds, basically they do not generate enough current or flow to attract the the shad up into the ladder system.

Yes steelhead are generally programmed similar to salmon to return to the waters of their birth. However just like some salmon do, some steelhead will wander into other nearby tribs as well and don't all end up exactly in the stream they were born in. Steelhead and salmon have both been tried on the Delaware previously too btw.

Believe it or not guys, DCNR is the major opponent to removing the lower dams on the Lehigh, specifically the Easton, Glendon, and Chain dams. Why? So they can fill portions of the canal in Easton for a few hundred yard canal boat ride they make money from. So much for conservation of natural resources eh?

Nice job linking the fight for the return of salmon/steelhead runs to the Snake River in Idaho and the positive and prolific economic impact it would have. Proof of significant local economic impact of a successful tailwater coldwater fishery on the Lehigh River can be found much closer to home too. That impact can be obtained though without trying to introduce a salmon or steelhead run into the Lehigh. A significant population of wild and stocked browns, rainbows, and brookies would be enough to bring in tens of millions of dollars annually to the local economies. A new tower with multiple levels of release gates will go a long way towards achieving that goal over 30 or 40+ miles of river.

Posted on: 2011/3/1 11:17

Edited by RyanR on 2011/3/1 11:33:55Edited by RyanR on 2011/3/1 11:39:00