I do have to agree that the small backyard beekeeper is better known to the community than the big commercial guys in most instances..I would be most willing to wager if someone has met a beekeeper face to face,it was most likely to be a smaller keeper from the local area. And this is the "face " of beekeeping. Good rant and observations,and Tew is spot on on this point.

I see that intention, but at the same time you start a spam post that lures readers to your website which has commercial intentions within. Anyone that is familiar with apple orchards knows full well the pesticides and chemicals that those trees are bombarded with. Apple blossoms are very short lived and many bees that visit them are too.

I do feel you have an awful lot to offer for the bee community but I will have reservations on what you say when you point fingers at the other groups when low and behold you are clearly involved in at least two of them.

I see that intention, but at the same time you start a spam post that lures readers to your website which has commercial intentions within. Anyone that is familiar with apple orchards knows full well the pesticides and chemicals that those trees are bombarded with. Apple blossoms are very short lived and many bees that visit them are too.

I do feel you have an awful lot to offer for the bee community but I will have reservations on what you say when you point fingers at the other groups when low and behold you are clearly involved in at least two of them.

Acebird,I could care less what you think. Hold any reservations you want.

A spam post...with commercial intentions... :lau: You don't even know who you speak too. I could care less about ANYBODY from this forum ordering from me. There.....is that clear enough for you.

I don't even know what your talking about. Apples, pesticides, finger pointing???? You asked a question. I answered. And you come back and judge me on nonsense. Pure crap!

You have a really unique way of ticking people off, and are really hard to chat with. Good luck with the others.

"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Love the website, added it to my favorites so I can catch further ramblings.

Acebird,

Seriously, I'll say it again, try not doing that. As a beekeeper you should fully know you'll get further with honey than vinegar. There is so much to learn here without the axe-grinding, finger-pointing, and dead-horse kicking that changes no ones mind but lessens the enjoyment and open discussions on Beemasters. It's very unpleasant and I am honestly hesitant to read posts you've commented on as I don't enjoy the soapbox drama that invariably seems to follow. I could ignore posts like this but then it's only encouraged because no one stands up to it.

Seriously, I'll say it again, try not doing that. As a beekeeper you should fully know you'll get further with honey than vinegar. There is so much to learn here without the axe-grinding, finger-pointing, and dead-horse kicking that changes no ones mind but lessens the enjoyment and open discussions on Beemasters. It's very unpleasant and I am honestly hesitant to read posts you've commented on as I don't enjoy the soapbox drama that invariably seems to follow. I could ignore posts like this but then it's only encouraged because no one stands up to it.

I agree! Unfortunately, it seems like there are many forum members who take this coarse. Its kind of like the people who you see in your rear view mirror screaming and hollering because you are not going as fast as they want you too. They act tough while in their cars, but certaintly would not act that way if face to face. Constructive criticism is one thing, but outright trashing someone says more about the person doing the trashing then it does the person being trashed.

Ace. I would hesitate to bash on Mike to much. He may currently be leaning to hobbiest group but if you do a little bit of research you would know he was formorly a state inspector. He has a huge open picnic every year where people get to see his whole setup. He. Got national honey bee day going.

Now Mike has been known to stir a pot or to himself but like as not it is a good idea to know who you are tormenting before you poke.

And while I know I have earned a bit of criticism by my own mannerisms, I do want others to know I do certain things for reasons. And anyone who knows me, knows marketing for sales is not one of them. I could post on 5 other forums anytime if I wanted business. Yet this is the only forum by choice I belong too.

As for my website or other perceived agendas, yes I was a state inspector. And I have been very critical of the commercial industry, in regards to chemicals and other dirty secrets. And because I have been outspoken, I have had letter writing campaigns against me, had a commercial beekeeper who happens to be on the state bee association nomination committee try to overthrow my post and refused to renominate me, as well as a host of other crap.

I started NSQBA, because I truly believe micro-breeders can be a growing benefit to the bee industry.

I started National Honey Bee Day, since I believe hobbyist beekeepers should have a stronger voice and I wanted an event not guided by commercial influence or larger national organizations that do not promote local beekeeping, local honey, or local agriculture.

I started the Pennsylvania Backyard Beekeeper Association when it became apparent there was a need for a statewide bee association catering to hobbyist beekeepers.

While I am a larger than a "hobbyist" operation, I do not move my bees across state lines. So I am not really a commercial migratory beekeeper. I favor a non-chemical approach and have been at adds with commercial guys for years.

Yes, 99% of my customers are hobbyists, and catering to this group is a benefit. Nothing to hide there.

You want to debate a difference in beekeeping philosophy, I'm all game. But please do not suggest I step on toes and make enemies on the scale I do by my writings, for the sole benefit of making a sale. That is laughable.

One of the reasons I started PennApic was after talking with several beekeepers from Indiana, and the split they had years ago in their state association. Commercial guys dominated and controlled everything and the needs of the hobbyists were not being met. So now Indiana has the "Indiana State Beekeeping Association" and the "Indiana Beekeeping Association". Funny thing is, most agree this was the best thing to have happened. Both associations now try to "one up" the other, by providing great programs and provide increased support. And for the beekeepers in the middle, they are the ones that benefit.

a funny thing happened when I first announced the start of NSQBA. Two rather well known people called me and asked by who's authority did I start the association. I said "huh?'. They asked if I had been advised or gotten approval from this person or that person. They stated "who was I" to start a queen association without approval from a few mentioned "academia" type bee people.

It's this kind of elitist attitude I despise.

So yes, if your asking who I consider myself connected too.....it is the hobbyist beekeeper. And my articles hold nothing back when it comes to being critical of the other groups.

I have spend thousands, working towards grassroots associations that cater to hobbyists. They are the ones that are my customers, contacts, and friends. And I would never have it any other way. As I said on my website, they are the industry in my eyes.

I hope by mentioning some of my own story and past, others will be motivated to make changes in their own world of influence. You don't need anyone's approval. You just need to stand up and do it.

See here is the problem, I didn't bash him. All I said was that I (me,myself and I) have reservations on what he may say because I do see he has had his hand in more than one of the three groups. I acknowledged that he has a lot to offer. That seemed to get brushed over.

Ace. Didn't mean to label you a bad guy at all. Seriously. You made a statement i personally refuted. Not on the basis of what he (Mike) is or is not. The lines between hobbiest sideliner and commercial are constantly blurred. And for several years I have lurked reading Mike's posts on different forums where he irks the "commercial powers" by stating the truth as to what goes on behind the scenes.

I may not always agree with what he says but his positive actions have helped the hobbiest more than I could even guess. I just opted to defend him because I have followed him by his posts long enough to understand it wasn't a plea for customers. Once again sorry for making you feel like a bad guy. I am sure you weren't the only one with questions on it. Just the one vocal enough to comment. :-)