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Humbly, in your presentation, everything spot on, but most things coming from the wrong place. Cut this. Cut~nurture this. How to?
As you walk through this gate with your mouth open, I see nothing but saliva and useless foaming. That would certainly fill a book. In life, hopeless.
How do you gassho? How do you walk to work? How do you eat and sleep and kiss?
You are trapped in the "why~world".

with a because~world not far away...

Zen start when whys are dropped.

hungry ghost like myself a lot of the time, wake up!

gassho

Taigu

Wise words in this plethora of words.

It's a year since I joined Tree Leaf - looking over my shoulder I see a trail of books, must have bought and read at least a book a week.

Nothing wrong with books, nothing wrong with words, nothing wrong with hermeneutics, ..... but, but, but ..... I'm beginning to feel it's what I do when I'm sleeping.

A young lad of 7 years was traveling a long distance across Utah's southeast desert in an automobile with his parents, brother and sister, and grandfather. The whole family snuggly stuffed together, with grandfather and dad in the front, mother and kids in the back.

The boy was excited for the part of the day they'd be crossing into Arizona. The boy was fascinated with maps, and those funny little symbols illustrators put on to show what industry and resources the region is most notable; and he knew the various boundaries each state in the America West.

When they finally approached the Utah-Arizona border, the family happily noted the "Welcome to Arizona" sign off to the right side. And as they passed the sign, the young fellow looked a bit distressed and with disappointment in his voice, asked, "Have we crossed into Arizona? We can't have crossed. Where is the yellow line?"

"What yellow line?", his mother responded.

"You know, the straight yellow line that stretches in both directions separating the two states! Where's the line showing the boundary?"

Lines of longitude and latitude are useful tools for navigation, but they are but concepts in our minds. One will not find such actual lines surrounding the earth's surface, no matter how much we look for them. Mathematical formulas and designs written on a blackboard attempt to describe and predict certain realities and events, but I've never known a drawing of a car to actually transport a family across the desert.

It matters because as you sit you learn but not like reading a book learn. You learn how to not learn, how to simply be. You learn the things you always knew, but kept letting your Self get in the way of. It takes time to learn this, and when you get it, you'll realize that you always had it, and that you'll never really get it anyway -but there it is, sitting on your cushion breathing in and out with your nose. You will only see it when its there and not until, and when you do see it, you'll never understand how you didn't see it before, or how you'llnever really be able to SEE anything.

It matters because as you sit you learn but not like reading a book learn. You learn how to not learn, how to simply be. You learn the things you always knew, but kept letting your Self get in the way of. It takes time to learn this, and when you get it, you'll realize that you always had it, and that you'll never really get it anyway -but there it is, sitting on your cushion breathing in and out with your nose. You will only see it when its there and not until, and when you do see it, you'll never understand how you didn't see it before, or how you'llnever really be able to SEE anything.

I agree Christopher, I have found that I have "unlearned" lots with my practise. Conceptions I formed long ago are slowly being worn down, broken up and scattered in the wind.
Gassho, Jakudo Hinton

Gassho, Shawn Jakudo Hinton
It all begins when we say, “I”. Everything that follows is illusion.
"Even to speak the word Buddha is dragging in the mud soaking wet; Even to say the word Zen is a total embarrassment."
寂道

I'm on a completely grain-free diet at the moment, and have been for a little less than three months, so its all goat milk, nuts, vegetables and fruits for me. This reduces the overall volume of food required, but it is expensive. I decided to do this after watching William Davis's excellent presentation on the history and clinical effects of modern wheat strains.

Eating more without lifting more just makes people fatter, not stronger.

After lots of experimentation I've found the best exercise so far to improve sitting posture aside from stretching is 'weighted hip extensions'.

This means I lie on my back with knees bent, place a 50 pound barbell over the hip joints and lift it with the back muscles to form a bridge position...repeat.

When approaching Buddhism I think its useful to always look for the consensus among the diversity of traditions evolving out of the original teaching of the founder.

And the consensus is clearly that this zazen gig is something one has to spend a lot of time with.

If it matters not whether I sit 30 minutes or 15 minutes...why would it matter if I sit only 5 minutes, or 60 seconds? -Eric.

Personally, I would not go on the no-grain thing. It seems to help by not going to extremes.

Many moons ago I lifted weights. When lifting I had to be fully present, fully focused on the weights, the muscles, the movements and so forth so as not to get hurt and to maximize gains from lifting. In between sets of exercises I would sit on a bench, breathing, preparing for the next set. When I lifted, I lifted and when I rested I rested. Time evaporated between walking in and out of the gym. I think athletes call this the zone. About as zen you can get. Whatever that means.

Gassho, John

I have been a so-called body builder/weight lifter most of my life. It is very healthy for the heart not to mention it gets you into nutrition. Weight lifting and any focused attention is very Zen like. I do as you say and will for-Ever.

Humbly, in your presentation, everything spot on, but most things coming from the wrong place. Cut this. Cut~nurture this. How to?
As you walk through this gate with your mouth open, I see nothing but saliva and useless foaming. That would certainly fill a book. In life, hopeless.
How do you gassho? How do you walk to work? How do you eat and sleep and kiss?
You are trapped in the "why~world".

Thank you again for your kind words on another thread, was thinking about you yesterday as I was doing my weekly thing in the gym.

I still remember how full I was with questions, beliefs and all kind of ideas 35 years ago as I started sitting. Now, I only teach relunctantly and if I could I would certainly shut up. You see, a teacher cannot make herself or himself, students will, and they keep calling. Now, young people in this business, and they can be in their sixties, have often the tendency to over think. Our job is to help them as best as we can to drop this. I have been seen as harsh countless times by people observing mondos or Zen exchanges, for the guy in front of me, it was fine.

And yes, it is possible to awaken from this. And yes the poor guy had no idea what he was talking about (as it is too often the case on Zen forums).

Last point, if you read this pointer again you will see that I take my own stupidity of hungry ghost as a target of my gentle wrath. Eric is a good reminder for us all of a very common tendency.

Thank you again for your kind words on another thread, was thinking about you yesterday as I was doing my weekly thing in the gym.

I still remember how full I was with questions, beliefs and all kind of ideas 35 years ago as I started sitting. Now, I only teach relunctantly and if I could I would certainly shut up. You see, a teacher cannot make herself or himself, students will, and they keep calling. Now, young people in this business, and they can be in their sixties, have often the tendency to over think. Our job is to help them as best as we can to drop this. I have been seen as harsh countless times by people observing mondos or Zen exchanges, for the guy in front of me, it was fine.

And yes, it is possible to awaken from this. And yes the poor guy had no idea what he was talking about (as it is too often the case on Zen forums).

Last point, if you read this pointer again you will see that I take my own stupidity of hungry ghost as a target of my gentle wrath. Eric is a good reminder for us all of a very common tendency.

Take care

Gassho

Taigu

Thank you Taigu! Good to see/hear from you as you seemingly appear from a darker period into the lighter.

It seems people like this Eric, and sometimes myself, feel the need to push on it, the it that seems rather fraudulent at times, and at times is, and needs the shake up. I cannot speak for him, but it is my way of learning through the exposure, or maybe bringing things more into light. Sometimes it serves well for all. The hard part is not letting this shakeup get overcome with emotion as that does not seem to be the Zen/Buddhist Way, and that may be the real test as you seem to insinuate here. There is nothing wrong with Eric's take it seems, its his, and for everyone getting all `up in arms' and worked up, he seemed to get his way and possibly did bring out the shallower side with everyone getting a little carried away. All of a sudden there were quite a few Zen experts. It seems he exposed dualism, his pushed buttons and no matter how or what people judged him buy, and of course I am not expert here, he did know a lot and on some levels he has spent some time in his preparation this type of dance. My guess is he probably is more of the atheist type, for whatever that is worth and quite intelligent. He backed down from no one and on his own, it seems he left when he felt he had exposed a group who think they are such Zenners. I feel people like him and Chet are a good thing, they teach in their own way and are quite harmless. But when they are attacked, and there is not winners or losers, they make their mark, good or what could be called bad. I try to read between the lines, there are a lot of levels going on and yes as you say, we can think to much. But to your point here, this same thinking to much or over dramatizing also possibly came from the teachers here too. He was our projection, we needed to look at our own shit, because on a lot of levels he is us, we are him caught in this dualistic ego game called life. Peace, brother Taigu, good to hear from you.

Thank you Taigu! Good to see/hear from you as you seemingly appear from a darker period into the lighter.

It seems people like this Eric, and sometimes myself, feel the need to push on it, the it that seems rather fraudulent at times, and at times is, and needs the shake up. I cannot speak for him, but it is my way of learning through the exposure, or maybe bringing things more into light. Sometimes it serves well for all. The hard part is not letting this shakeup get overcome with emotion as that does not seem to be the Zen/Buddhist Way, and that may be the real test as you seem to insinuate here. There is nothing wrong with Eric's take it seems, its his, and for everyone getting all `up in arms' and worked up, he seemed to get his way and possibly did bring out the shallower side with everyone getting a little carried away. All of a sudden there were quite a few Zen experts. It seems he exposed dualism, his pushed buttons and no matter how or what people judged him buy, and of course I am not expert here, he did know a lot and on some levels he has spent some time in his preparation this type of dance. My guess is he probably is more of the atheist type, for whatever that is worth and quite intelligent. He backed down from no one and on his own, it seems he left when he felt he had exposed a group who think they are such Zenners. I feel people like him and Chet are a good thing, they teach in their own way and are quite harmless. But when they are attacked, and there is not winners or losers, they make their mark, good or what could be called bad. I try to read between the lines, there are a lot of levels going on and yes as you say, we can think to much. But to your point here, this same thinking to much or over dramatizing also possibly came from the teachers here too. He was our projection, we needed to look at our own shit, because on a lot of levels he is us, we are him caught in this dualistic ego game called life. Peace, brother Taigu, good to hear from you.

I am accepting and reasonable, just straight forward with my feelings. I just re-read my post and do not see anything that harsh or cruel, what do you see? Have I hurt anyone here? Have I threatened anyone here, unless it seems threatening and then that is not my problem? Please point out these several messages which have such a tone that is so unreasonable or uncomfortable. I thought Taigu I just had a nice exchange, with my full respect to him and he to me. Same with Daizen, I enjoyed both of their posts.

Jundo....... I just re-read the entire thread. It seems I may have been to strong with my post, but do feel it also held water. My comeback to Taigu about being a little harsh, was just that. Asking if he thought it was a 'little to harsh'. I felt you personally were teaching all the way and showed great patience with this person to the end. I did feel someone like Limo, in his short exposure here may have bee 'some what' aggressive at the end of his posts. This Eric guy was not causing any harm that I could see, whether confused or and idiot, that seems to be his right.

A university professor went to visit a Japanese Zen teacher. While the teacher quietly served tea, the professor talked about Zen, the philosophy of Zen, his opinions about why Zen was this or that, about the need to replace one thing with another, about how much an original principle might be re-cast or re-interpreted before its meaning has changed enough to break the consensus. The teacher poured the visitor's cup to the brim, and then kept pouring.

The professor watched the overflowing cup until he could no longer restrain himself.

"It's overfull! No more will go in!" the professor blurted.

"You are like this cup," the teacher replied, "How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup."

As a postscript I feel compelled to say something about the above quoted blurb, as its too important to ignore.

This little dialog is kind of like a stock item...always there to pull off the shelf whenever needed to distort the Dharma's true place and role in the tradition.

The Dharma is simply the consensus of conceptual explanations of whatever is realized in meditation. And as such it functions somewhat like a very detailed label on a soft drink. One cannot fully understand the label unless one tastes the contents...on the other hand, tasting the contents will not always yield the same conceptual explanations.

This is why a record of consensus is necessary and important in its own right.

Its also apparent as a fun side note that no one can be forced to taste the contents. What if Bodhisattva Jizo used his famous iron staff to pry open the gates of hell...and no one wanted to leave??? LOL!

Therefore, Buddhist meditation, scholarship and patronage function like three wheels of a tricycle, rolling forward in a mutually dependant relationship.

If that image doesnt appeal to you, we could also use the analogy of an archery target made of concentric circles.

The bullseye is the center is occupied by those rare monks with enough aspiration to spend long measures of their lives in meditation. The next wider circle is occupied by those monks who keep, maintain and memorize the Dharma record...very difficult and important work that is again only suited to a few. The next wider circle is occupied by monks who administer and maintain the temple with all its practical requirements. And the last circle is occupied by those lay associates who support the temple financially...forming a kind of surrounding wall of protection.

This last role is also very important and has traditionally been filled by government. If one reads history carefully it becomes obvious that Asian religions have risen and fallen largely based on government patronage. Many thousands of temples have been destroyed simply because a new Emperor took the throne and favoured the competition, and many thousands have been built with public funds extorted from the citizenry through taxation.

Just the social role Buddhist temples have played in Asian history is spectacular in scope, esp when one considers how many orphaned children were saved from starvation, and how many widows were afforded a meaningful place in the world as temple nuns.

Even an army of goose stepping demons would stop and press their palms together in pious reverence! -Eric.

The Dharma is simply the consensus of conceptual explanations of whatever is realized in meditation. And as such it functions somewhat like a very detailed label on a soft drink. One cannot fully understand the label unless one tastes the contents...on the other hand, tasting the contents will not always yield the same conceptual explanations.

Yes, this is true. Zazen is the Taste of All Tastes, and leads practitioners to some commonly shared tastes ... forsaking greed, violence and such.

Yet, the Taste of All Tastes yields some folks who prefer Pepsi, some Fanta Orange, some Ginger Ale, each a good and thirst quenching taste in its way. Simply to look for a consensus by mixing all together yields quite a mess! Yet, the sweetness at the Heart is still there.

Here at Treeleaf, we drink Pepsi, leaving other to their Fanta and such ... all lovely drinks. Perhaps this place is just not to your taste.

Hi Eric - have been drinking Pepsi here for a while. We drink face to face - talk/debate (and do not always agree!) support each other through personal difficulties - and practice Zazen together. This is not a place of only words - like so many forums - it is a Sangha.

Why not post a picture, share a little about yourself, and open your mind to what really happens here.

There is always someone who says something like this every few months or so. How can you know what comprises the dharma if everything is the dharma, and who among us can truly KNOW everything? When I first came here I tried to dissect and lable the dharma and enlightenment, and in the end I just found my"self" holding a bunch of labels with nothing to stick them on. Eric, I would ask that you simply sit with us and read the posts of the teachers, senior members, and Unsui. Try to just hear what they say, let their eyebrows become tangled wlth yours, if after that you prefer the taste of another drink to ours, then may your journey be a pleasent one. As for me, I like cool-aid.

And I don't know where to put this, so here is as good as any. Just made me smile, I hope it does you'all too.

I guess it's also as a good an answer as any to some hard philosophical questions being asked ...

Japan sets Guinness record for synchronized mascot dancing

This week, 141 “yuru-kyara” [cute and cuddly character mascots] from 25 prefectures across the country gathered in Sasebo, Nagasaki Prefecture, to make their mark on history by becoming the largest group of mascots ever to do the same dance together.

HTB, the event organizers, set the goal of gathering characters from all over the country to perform a synchronized dance number to a song called “The Beard Dance” by The Drifters. If, during the 5-minute song, less that 5% of the characters were out of sync or made mistakes, they would get a listing in the Guinness Book of World Records.

Although the “yuru-kyara” earnestly and enthusiastically shook their tiny arms and bulbous bodies to the music, they twice failed meet the requirements. However, 134 mascots put in a flawless performance on the third try and succeeded in setting the record! Congratulatory music played and the characters jumped around hugging each other, completely lost in the moment. Could there be any happier sight on planet Earth than 141 giant cuddly creatures dancing and embracing? We think not.

Maybe each flavor of Buddhism can have it's own mascot! We could have a big cuddly Zafu with a tophat!

Hi Eric - have been drinking Pepsi here for a while. We drink face to face - talk/debate (and do not always agree!) support each other through personal difficulties - and practice Zazen together. This is not a place of only words - like so many forums - it is a Sangha.

Why not post a picture, share a little about yourself, and open your mind to what really happens here.

Gassho

Willow

Nicely put Willow.

Gassho
Shingen

RINDO SHINGEN
倫道 真現

As a trainee priest, please take any commentary by me on matters of the Dharma with a pinch of salt.

The Ryohoji temple, built in the late 16th century in a Tokyo suburb, erected a colourful manga-inspired sign at its entrance in June and has since seen visitor numbers perk up -- especially young men.
Ryohoji's chief monk, Shoko Nakazato, 45, said he did not think it was inappropriate.
"I'm a manga generation who grew up watching them on television. I have little resistance to manga.... I wanted to tell the people that temples are a fun place to visit," he said.
Ryohoji previously had almost no visitors during the week, but recently up to 30 people, mostly young men, had come every day, Nakazato said.
Adding to the spectacle, Toromi, a singer who drew the manga characters on the temple's sign, was in a red-and-white costume inspired by a goddess worshipped at the temple.
"I'm so happy as unexpectedly many people came," said Toromi, who goes by one name and is a common sight in Akihabara, Tokyo's electronics district that is frequented by computer buffs and fanatics, known in Japanese as "otaku."

She is dressed as Benzaiten, an old Indian goddess mentioned in the Lotus Sutra and often depicted holding a biwa, a traditional Chinese lute, and considered a patron of music and arts.

The Temple is a Nichiren Buddhist temple, the flavor of Buddhism which chants the name of the Lotus Sutra Namu-Myōhō-Renge-Kyō.

Why not post a picture, share a little about yourself, and open your mind to what really happens here.

Its sometimes said here that 'Zen is about our lives', but I would add a twist to that.

Zen is about the CONTEXT of everyone's life...not about the CONTENT of any specific person's life.

By content I mean a person's activities, possessions, relations, etc.

I believe Jundo referred to the content as "tiny cogs, pointlessly spinning".

Another teacher, the late Dr. David R. Hawkins likened the content to characters in a play...whereas realization is identifying instead with the theatre, the context in which this content takes place. He calibrates the depth of this realization on a logarithmic scale of 0-1000.

This is why SPACE itself is often used as a symbol of the Mahayana, instead of the lotus flower. The flower and the mud from which it grows are both the content of space...which pervades and is also distinct from both.

Now this doesnt mean that the content will not be altered by a realization of the context. The way you make a sandwich may be quite different after 30 years of relentless zazen...but theres no point in trying to fake it, because the process isnt reversible.

The Dharma is simply the consensus of conceptual explanations of whatever is realized in meditation. And as such it functions somewhat like a very detailed label on a soft drink. One cannot fully understand the label unless one tastes the contents...on the other hand, tasting the contents will not always yield the same conceptual explanations.

Yet, the Taste of All Tastes yields some folks who prefer Pepsi, some Fanta Orange, some Ginger Ale, each a good and thirst quenching taste in its way.

Its not the contents of meditation which taste different for different people...its the conceptual explanation of that taste that varies.

My 'sitting in stillness' posture doesnt know that its supposed to be Buddhist or Hindu or Jain or Taoist...it just is what it is.

When a consensus is created (at a Buddhist council for example) to standardize the Dharma the leaders look for those few points of explanation which are common to the most advanced adepts.

Here, we practice 1 to 1000 to a Googolpex as countless. Like many Wisdom Teachers, 30% of Dr. Harkins' "energy fields" sounds like the Wisdom on Silence shared by many Traditions, 30% as his own wacky quackery, 30% somewhere a mix of both.

Eric, I have a strong sense that you are in a Dojo here at Treeleaf that does not fit your needs.

Would you please PM or email me privately so we can discuss if that is the case?

Its not the contents of meditation which taste different for different people...its the conceptual explanation of that taste that varies.

My 'sitting in stillness' posture doesnt know that its supposed to be Buddhist or Hindu or Jain or Taoist...it just is what it is.

When a consensus is created (at a Buddhist council for example) to standardize the Dharma the leaders look for those few points of explanation which are common to the most advanced adepts.

The only reason your posture doesn't know if it is Buddhist, Jain, Taoist, Aboriginal., native American, Hawaiian., etc is because when we drop all sense of "this " and "that " we begin to relize that sitting is all of the above and wholly Soto Zen at the same time. Buddha speaks with the lips of Paracelsus, and he hears with the hairs of Sitting Bull' s ears.