The concept was brought up earlier that women used to be trained to use a sword, and to me, it follows that men would be taught to use what seidh powers they had. We are all born with certain innate powers as different as our physical attributes. For many centuries men were required to "bring home the bacon" while women stayed home to "stir the pot." For me, visions occur during mundane chores (like stirring a pot), and so I can see how a hearth wife could quickly and easily become a hearth witch. She is in charge of gathering and drying the herbs, creating sustenance, tending animals, etc. He is in charge of defending the hearth, hunting and killing the meat, etc. There is as much seidh power in spilling blood as there is in stirring a potion or releasing a spell or seeking a vision. For that reason, I believe that in true form, both men and women practiced seidh as two sides of a coin. Together, their power was complete.

In the Old Way, the practitioners of seið were primarily women as each woman in a small family was usually the Gythja for her home. Seið (If you flip your tongue off of your pallet towards your front teeth rather quickly and down you will get the 'flipped "D"' sound at the end of the word which is kind of like a 'd' and a 'Th' at the same time - like 'seethe') is loosely translated as 'witchcraft', and is usually categorized into three areas:

Seið: 'General' witchcraft as one might expect of a witch; the making of charms, spells, potions and the ability to interact with magical forces for the weal or woe of her family.

Spa: The ability to see Orlog. In other words these practitioners were /are seeresses and prophetesses. The words Spaekona, Spae-wive or Volva are from this area of seið practices.

Runemala/Rune-work: Practitioners in this area usually combine their knowledge to use the runes for enlightenment and to affect the world around them through charm and spell.

All of the above use GaldR ( the ability to chant and sing) to some extent, as this appears to be integral to all Nordic magical practices.

One of the biggest controversies nowadays in the Odinist/Pagan community is to whether males should be practicing seið. Historically, it is said that Spa and seið in general are women's mysteries; the realm of the Lady Freyja and to an extent Frigga and the other Goddesses, as well as the Disir and female Alfar.

It has been said that to practice seið is an unmanly affair, yet there are many men drawn to it. In fact, Har himself (get used to the many hypostases of Odin) practiced the seiðR Ways, having gleaned much of the art from Freyja and other potent sources.

The most common area that one sees men applying themselves to Northern magical arts is with the runes. There seems to be much less controversy over men using runes.

I hope that helps you a bit ;-)

Coyote

Coyote, I'm impressed! You really know a lot about seiðr. I just want to add that Loki made fun of Odin because he practised seiðr, like you said it was not done for males. The reason for this was the sexual rituals when practising seiðr. Therefore seiðr is also named sex magic by some.

I wonder how much of the "stigma" of men practicing seidr was actual and how much of it was introduced after Christianity took hold. It wasn't until after his conversion that King Olaf Tryggvason outlawed the practice.

I wonder how much of the "stigma" of men practicing seidr was actual and how much of it was introduced after Christianity took hold. It wasn't until after his conversion that King Olaf Tryggvason outlawed the practice.

It has bin described in the Lokassena so there is no link with Christianity at all. Maybe your reaction is a little to 'paranoia' towards Christianity?

I wonder how much of the "stigma" of men practicing seidr was actual and how much of it was introduced after Christianity took hold. It wasn't until after his conversion that King Olaf Tryggvason outlawed the practice.

It has bin described in the Lokassena so there is no link with Christianity at all. Maybe your reaction is a little to 'paranoia' towards Christianity?

No paranoia in the least. I am a student of history. As such I am simply aware of the influence the Catholic church had on the writings that occurred after the conversion of Scandinavia. Sturluson was born after the conversion of Iceland (and the rest of Scandinavia for that matter). The church would have cast a disapproving eye on seidr if it was portrayed in anything but a negative light. Those who first wrote the lore during that time may of either had to spin it to get it by church censorship or just reflected the general feelings of the time. Or it may have always just been frowned upon.

I wonder how much of the "stigma" of men practicing seidr was actual and how much of it was introduced after Christianity took hold. It wasn't until after his conversion that King Olaf Tryggvason outlawed the practice.

It has bin described in the Lokassena so there is no link with Christianity at all. Maybe your reaction is a little to 'paranoia' towards Christianity?

No paranoia in the least. I am a student of history. As such I am simply aware of the influence the Catholic church had on the writings that occurred after the conversion of Scandinavia. Sturluson was born after the conversion of Iceland (and the rest of Scandinavia for that matter). The church would have cast a disapproving eye on seidr if it was portrayed in anything but a negative light. Those who first wrote the lore during that time may of either had to spin it to get it by church censorship or just reflected the general feelings of the time. Or it may have always just been frowned upon.

I meant the Poetic Edda (Lokassena), Snorri Sturluson only reffered to it in the Prose Edda.

The entire concept of "male abilities" vs. "female abilities" and stigmas involved with one using the other is an entirely new concept (in the broad scheme of humanity's historical timeline) and a purely patriarchal/dictatorship society concoction. It is a way to keep us from implementing our full potential.

Do the gods want us only half as powerful as we are capable? That's up to your opinion. The abilities, however, are not gender-specific, nor have they ever been.

Women are often stronger when it comes to "seeing" and abilities like empathic, sensitive, and healing, but men have been able. Look at some of the most brilliant seers in the human species' recent history: Edgar Cayce, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Isaac Asimov... All very wise men who used this ability to see into other realms for their scientific knowledge and know our future societies for the good and the bad. No one mocked them for their gifts. We only renamed it as "intellectual genius" to continue the illusion of separation in gender skills.

I believe women are better capable of tapping into it because our minds are not distracted by machismo and bloodlust. When a man finds himself not distracted by these things, he can find the talent. Women who become warriors have a difficult time, as well.

It is the seidr who is also a warrior which truly displays the highest form of greatness we all should strive to attain. This is our form of enlightenment.

I found this elsewhere but am not sure if I can post the link (I don't know if the person would want their link shared here):

Quote:

Odin and Shamanism

Odin is described in written literature as having a number of names, titles, and responsibilities. One of those roles he is known for is as a Shaman. In the Ynglinga Saga, it tells of Odin’s many journeys to other lands in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom.

In “Baldur’s Dreams”, found in the Eddic poem, Odin rides his horse Sleipnir into the Underworld to converse with the völva. Through Freyja, Odin was taught the ancient art of seidr, and there are multiple stories of ‘runar’ being inscribed and galdr chants being sung over a particular object.

While Shamanism can be a bit broad in its definition, we can clearly see its way of practice, and examples, in the Eddas.

Today’s modern Shamans will frequently travel to other places and communities where shamanism is still practiced in order to deepen their understanding of ecstatic trances, herbs, and other altered states of consciousness. In shamanic practice, it is common to hear of the person going through a ritualistic, symbolic, death and rebirth in order to better attain a connection with the world, and knowledge, that lies beyond. Odin set one of these first examples, as is shown in his own self-sacrifice upon Yggdrasil.

Additionally, the Berserker’s were well known for entering altered states and trances as well – entering a state of rage so intense that it made them appear immune to harm. In several sources of literature, Berserkers are referred to as “warrior-Shamans”, able to integrate the spirit of an animal into the being of a man.

“Odin’s men went armor-less into battle and were as crazed as dogs or wolves and as strong as bears or bulls. They bit their shields and slew men, while they themselves were harmed by neither fire nor iron. This is called “ berserk.” – Ynglinga Saga

As we look further into the attributes of our gods, it is important to honor each of their aspects as individual parts of who they are, and what they represent – just as it is important for us to do the same for ourselves.

This role of Odin is personified as both the spiritual and physical wise traveler and shaman. It also represents a rite of initiation that we see anchored in the self-sacrifice Odin made in his quest for the runes (again both spiritual and physical were tried and tested as is seen in shamanic ritual). Of his roles, this is one that is considered still sacred today and practiced by many whom he calls to.

The entire concept of "male abilities" vs. "female abilities" and stigmas involved with one using the other is an entirely new concept (in the broad scheme of humanity's historical timeline) and a purely patriarchal/dictatorship society concoction. It is a way to keep us from implementing our full potential.

Do the gods want us only half as powerful as we are capable? That's up to your opinion. The abilities, however, are not gender-specific, nor have they ever been.

Women are often stronger when it comes to "seeing" and abilities like empathic, sensitive, and healing, but men have been able. Look at some of the most brilliant seers in the human species' recent history: Edgar Cayce, Nikola Tesla, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton, Isaac Asimov... All very wise men who used this ability to see into other realms for their scientific knowledge and know our future societies for the good and the bad. No one mocked them for their gifts. We only renamed it as "intellectual genius" to continue the illusion of separation in gender skills.

I believe women are better capable of tapping into it because our minds are not distracted by machismo and bloodlust. When a man finds himself not distracted by these things, he can find the talent. Women who become warriors have a difficult time, as well.

It is the seidr who is also a warrior which truly displays the highest form of greatness we all should strive to attain. This is our form of enlightenment.

1) I think the same about it but that's a personal opinion, I'm just saying what is written in very old books.2) Instead of patriarchal you could say it's matriarchal because only woman where "allowed" to practice seiðr.3) Woman are just as strong as men are, think about the valkyries and female warriors. The Nordic culture is by far the most gender friendly of them all.

You are certainly correct. But for Loki to cast stones at anybody else for practicing magic seems a little much for even him. It could be that his abilities were natural whereas Odin's were acquired and therefore Loki could poke mock them to an extent.

I agree with Skuld that we all should develop to the fullest ALL of our individual talents and abilities.

Mainly I was just curious as to the potential of Christian worldview finding it's way into various translations. Here in the US we are currently seeing a similar rewriting of history when it comes to the slave era in our nation. What was simply a fact of life then is being portrayed as a evil injustice, placing a current social context on something that should be viewed in a historical one.

1) I think the same about it but that's a personal opinion, I'm just saying what is written in very old books.2) Instead of patriarchal you could say it's matriarchal because only woman where "allowed" to practice seiðr.3) Woman are just as strong as men are, think about the valkyries and female warriors. The Nordic culture is by far the most gender friendly of them all.

I say "patriarchal" because prior to the patriarchal kingdoms' invasions into matriarchal societies, there was no stigma attached to any gender. It was through these invasions that "wise women" who were healers and held payer circles were suddenly called "witches" and instructed to be feared. It was the creation of seeing women as the weaker gender, guidelines on clothing imposed upon women, restrictions imposed upon women, a sudden fear of anything that made a woman a woman (including the menstrual cycle and pregnancy), and in order for men to distance themselves from the same persecution, any who did have the same abilities as a woman hid it in fear or burned along with the accused women. They began to over-exaggerate their roles in society until men had no time for mercy, compassion, or even diplomacy.

I'm not saying the whole world was like this, but if you go far enough back in the history of humans, you will see when these changes took place in many countries and continents.

When christianity took over the Northern ways and cast their lies upon them and Vikings, most of whom fought back, women who once had seats in council and a voice in the kingdoms were reduced to mere baby making machines and house servants. Any society that refused to follow such a narrow-minded way of life was flagged as worshiping the devil and practicing witchcraft. They were to be chastised and feared by "good christians." Men who refused to follow these laws were labeled, said to be possessed by the women witches, and burned. It was for survival that the men and women took on their new gender-specific roles as dictated by the church.

Pre-christian Rome was very equal until after Constantine's death and christianity was allowed to rule over the other religions within the vatican. Celebrations that had once been co-ed were now only for men, and only for wealthy men.

But if I keep talking, I'm going to take this discussion in an entirely different direction lol. Anyway, that's the basis for why I posted what I did.

Mainly I was just curious as to the potential of Christian worldview finding it's way into various translations. Here in the US we are currently seeing a similar rewriting of history when it comes to the slave era in our nation. What was simply a fact of life then is being portrayed as a evil injustice, placing a current social context on something that should be viewed in a historical one.

As angry as it makes me from an educated person's point-of-view, at least we can say we are witnessing how history is rewritten by special interests before our own eyes. It allows us a clearer understanding of what happened in the past so that we can better undo the damage (hopefully).

Mainly I was just curious as to the potential of Christian worldview finding it's way into various translations. Here in the US we are currently seeing a similar rewriting of history when it comes to the slave era in our nation. What was simply a fact of life then is being portrayed as a evil injustice, placing a current social context on something that should be viewed in a historical one.

As angry as it makes me from an educated person's point-of-view, at least we can say we are witnessing how history is rewritten by special interests before our own eyes. It allows us a clearer understanding of what happened in the past so that we can better undo the damage (hopefully).