Topic: To Be or not To BePosted By: namesdontmatter
Subject: To Be or not To Be
Date Posted: 12 March 2005 at 9:36pm

Hello everyone. I come seeking answers to questions that I do not know
how to phrase correctly. So, I think I shall just start at... well, the
beginning. I have identity issues, as I'm sure the forum tag probably
suggests, but I'll try my best to be specific, so that the advice that
anyone may be able to give me will be more helpful. My apologies in
advance if this ends up being a very long post.

A little while ago, I met the girl 'of my dreams'. I know it sounds
cliche, but I believe she is the girl I was supposed to be with for the
rest of my life.

For the greater portion of my short life (I am 20, she is 22), I have
lived without God, without religion. My life has to this point been a
very happy one. I have been a good person, very helpful to those in my
community and do not drink, smoke or fornicate. In return for doing
none of these bad things and being a good person, I have been very
lucky when I get into a jam, or have problems that I do not know how to
solve. As a result, I have never felt a need or a pull to choose a
religion and pray to God.

The girl, however, is a Muslim.

From what I know about the rules Muslims abide by, she is not even
supposed to speak to me on a personal level, but rather about work or
school. This, yet I wish for her hand in marriage some day when I have
the means to sustain the both of us.

Now that my personal history is out of the way, I have so very many
questions for those who frequent this forum... it is hard to know where
to begin, so I will ask this and hope for some response.

I am afraid that if I begin to practice Islam, it will be for a woman
and not for myself and certainly not for God. I am afraid that if I do
not practice Islam, she and I can never be together. What shall I do?

I have thought about asking God for a sign, or guidance, but I do not
even know how to pray as a Muslim, or whether or not I need to be
Muslim first before I can pray to Him, and I am reluctant to ask her.

Finally, if I've posted this on the wrong forum, I want to apologize in
advance. There were no posts here to tell me what sort of content goes
here, and so I just too a chance.

Replies: Posted By: semar
Date Posted: 12 March 2005 at 9:56pm

I am not good adviser nor wise man. But here what I think:You do not need to practice Islam (ritually: shalat, fasting, etc) if have not muslim yet. But you still can pray to God by meditation or whatever, that part of searching God, ask him to give you a sign that he is exist. This was the way that done by prophet Abraham and Muhammad. Prophet Abraham searched God by watching the sun, the moon and the stars and came conclusion none of them is a God, because all of them were set all of them disappear, eventually he found the real God. So by the similar way with full intention insha Allah (god will) you will find him someday.

Here are some different variations about the problem you are facing with.I wish this article will bring you the help.Before reading the article,please read the ayats from the holy Quran which made the source of this article... Wa Salaam.....

002.221 YUSUFALI: Do not marry unbelieving women (idolaters), until they believe: A slave woman who believes is better than an unbelieving woman, even though she allures you. Nor marry (your girls) to unbelievers until they believe: A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever, even though he allures you. Unbelievers do (but) beckon you to the Fire. But Allah beckons by His Grace to the Garden (of bliss) and forgiveness, and makes His Signs clear to mankind: That they may celebrate His praise.

024.003 YUSUFALI: Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry and but a woman similarly guilty, or an Unbeliever: nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.

060.010 YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah: He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

Marriage with non-Muslims

Question:

Are Muslim men allowed to marry non-Muslim women?When you marry female people of the book and they turn out not practicing their own deen or even do not believe, what do you do. Given the fact that the fatwa classify them as Kafirs. Is there a problem of inconsistency there with the Quran which allows such marriage. Shouldn't the Quran take precedence here. The intent is to bring them to Islam. If after so many years one is convinced they will not believe what then do you do.

Cheri Powers, Lahore

Answer:

Assalam-o-Alaikum and thank you for contacting JI dear Cheri Powers,

Islam allows a Muslim male to marry a lady, either Christian or Jews Ė she should not be open polytheist. She is not obliged to convert to Islam for the sake of marriage. She will enjoy all the rights that a Muslim wife avails Ė proper willful contract, dower, right of nafaqa (sustenance) from husband, right of inheritance (if she gets widowed), and right of separation (khulaí) if ever she so wants. And, the Qurían ordains that wife Ė a Muslim or Christian Ė is equal partner to the marriage contract.

However, a Muslim lady can neither be married nor remain married to a non-Muslim, including one belonging to the "People of Book". If some Muslim sister has indulged in this, she should approach the husband and try her best that he also converts to Islam. Meanwhile she will NOT act as his wife and stay divorced. If after lapse of some time, the husband embraces Islam, they can however, unite again without fresh marriage, as such instances are reported in the "Seerah" and the decisions given was by the Prophet (SWS) himself. In case he doesn't embrace Islam, divorce is inevitable.

Yes, Qur'an gets precedence over all other opinions. Now you say that "these women do not even believe in or practice their own deen". Does that mean they were not truly Christian or Jew, and were therefore, wrongly taken to be ahle-kitab? If so, one should not have married such a lady in the first place. One thing however, is clear. If a true Christian or Jewish lady (married to a Muslim man) sticks to her deen, she is not be compelled to convert to Islam. Preferably however, after the marriage the family should move to Dar al Islam. That will enhance her chances to become Muslim or at least stay closer to the True Faith. More important that the children of such couple will be raised Muslims.

Regards

Question:

Dear Sir,

I turn to you with the following question. I am Dutch, and Christian. I have married a Pakistani Muslim woman (as is permitted under Dutch civil law), and we are a happy family with two wonderful children. My wife is a practicing Muslim, as I am a practicing Christian. The children are raised with knowledge of, and respect for both the Christian and the Muslim religions. Our marriage is fully respected by both our families. Under pressure of her friends at the mosque, however, my wife starts to feel more and more apprehensive about the validity of our marriage. I am aware of the nullity of our marriage under Islamic law, but my question is: should such a marriage indeed be considered null and void, irrespective of the fact that it has resulted in a happy family with two children and respect for the two religions?Regards,

Maurits BergerNetherlands

Answer:

Thank you for contacting JI dear Dear Maurits Berger!

Let us be frank with you at the very outset. The marriage was certainly not valid under Islamic Law. The permission given in the Qurían is only for a Muslim man to marry a chaste lady from the People of the Book (Jews and Christian). This facility was not available to a Muslim lady. You said she was a practicing Muslim and that her family had no objection to the marriage. It shows they either did not know the Law, or were not mindful of that.

Luckily you confessed that you "respect" Islam as well. What does that mean, however? Do you consider it was a true religion? Then what bars you from confessing it openly? Believe us, we are not taking advantage of your situation to suggest to you the acceptance of Islam. We are drawing from your own stated confession - an honest one, we believe, and that provides a ray of hope for the family.

Let us tell you something. Your wife, or any Muslim for that matter, will not be accepted as Muslim unless they declare un-conditional belief in the Prophethood of Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Book that was revealed to him. Will it be unfair then, if you were asked to have similar faith in Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the true Messenger of God, as he brought the same Message from the same God? You will need no "conversion". It will be re-affirmation of the true faith and teachings of Jesus (p.b.u.h.). Above all, it will give your family life (past and present) the legitimacy as required under the Islamic Law. Having done that, you will not need any fresh marriage contract, except to declare agreement to the relevant provisions under Islamic Law that speak about the rights and obligations of the spouses.

If you could believe, we shall be the last on earth to give even the least consideration to the idea of separation between you and your wife. If it was for me, we will go to any limits and do what we could to save that relationship, which is very dear to God as the Muslims are told. What however, we can not do - nor any Muslim can dare suggest - is to break the Law of God. Consider the merits of Islam, accept it happily and for Godís sake, and have your marital life saved, which, as you said, must be wonderfully happy.

We pray that God Almighty be your true Guide and help you through this ordeal. Ameen!

With best of wishes.

M. Haq

Question:

Dear Sir,I am a Christian female. My boyfriend is a Muslim. We intend to get married, Iíve never asked him to convert, he's never asked me to do so, but I know that he wants me to. Because of some family problems, when I couldnít find any other way to be with him, I decided to convert. I haven't done so as yet, but somehow, I feel really awkward with this decision. Sometimes I just feel like telling him that I donít want to convert, but he seems so happy with it, that I donít have the heart to tell him so. His family and friends know that I will be converting, but as you said, its not necessary for a Non-Muslim female to convert. What should I do? Please help me out with this situation. Iím in great anxiety. Thanks.

AnonymousKarachi

Answer:

Thank you for contacting JI dear Anonymous,We never said that a non-Muslim lady should not convert of she wishes to marry a Muslim man. But we did say that a Christian and a Jew lady may not convert. She (as your case is) may stay what she is and marry the Muslim Ďboyí of her choice. This is a special privilege that Islam accords to Christianity and Judaism. Do you know why? Because Moses and Jesus and all prophets of the house of Israel and the rest of prophets (peace be on them all) were all Muslims. That we know for sure. Therefore we often request Christian and Jew to come back and embrace the true religion of the prophets. Muhammad (p.b.u.h.) never preached anything different from the past revealed Messages of Allah.

That said by way of clarification, you please should not convert as long as you are feeling un-easy. We know how difficult it is fro a person to change his/her faith. But then you will have double reward, if you do. Above all, it will ensure harmony and sustained understanding and affection with your spouse.

Let me repeat. You can marry the boy without converting. He should not press, because that is not required.Wish you good luck.

M. Haq

Question:

Are muslim men allowed to marry non-muslim (specifically hindu) girls?

NasirCanada

Answer:

Assalam-o-Alaikum dear Nasir, thank you for contacting JI.A Muslim boy can NOT marry a Hindu girl. The Qur'an has allowed marriage with only a Jew or a Christian lady, who is noted as belonging to ahle-kitab. Some people refer to Muhammad bin Qasim, or the Umayad rulers in Damascus (Dimishq), who treated the Indian subjects as dhimis (like Jews and Christian), but that was only for the purpose of jidhya (revenue) extraction. That political decision can not be extended to the Qur'anic injunction of marriage permission.Wassalam,

.... Wow. That is a lot of response for only a short period of time. I guess that means I posted on the right forum? :)

Posted By: Nausheen
Date Posted: 14 March 2005 at 5:40pm

Auzubillahi minash shaitan ir rajeem,

Bismillah ir rehman ir rahim,

Hello Dear Seeker,

I am afraid that if I begin to practice Islam, it will be for a woman and not for myself and certainly not for God. I am afraid that if I do not practice Islam, she and I can never be together. What shall I do?

It could be that this girl is your means to draw close to your Creator. You may begin with the desire to know this girl and her religion, and end up worshiping her Lord (who is technically your Lord as well) in the manner He is worthy of worship.

He is the one who turns the hearts, so be hopeful and seek the guidance in a proper manner. For now this would be best for you.

or whether or not I need to be Muslim first before I can pray to Him,

You can Pray to God as anyone, Muslim or not. He is the Creator and Sustainer of all. Prayers are turned to Him, and answered from Him alone.

Investigate islam, ask questions, ask about resources, etc. Seek to understand why muslims pray the way they do, before you want to pray like them.

I have asked God for guidance, and have decided to submit to whatever He chooses for me.

This is submission to God. A muslim takes the means to deal with the issues in his life, and at the same time, relies not on the means but the will and power of God, to deliver him to success.

Glory be to Allah, you have the right attitude. You will be guided, if He so wills.

Listen, remember this; God is one God and He is
the father of Jesus Christ our Savior. You are concern bout getting or not
getting married to a women that obviously is the opposite to your believe and
must certain to my believe to. You are to young, nonetheless, you are a good
man and a good Christian. Now, I can tell you this, do not married a women that
you will have to follow her to your believes and that is not possible. God the
Almighty is given me the opportunity to tell you to run from that relationship
due to that you will be not be happy. Now if you do that, you will have to
comply with a religion that do things in a very opposite way to our believes. You
must think twice and not disregard this my advice. I truly believe you must
make a stop and re-think bout what are you about to do; that will cost your
future forever, and nothing can change it once you are in that religion. Please
forgive if I sound like racist, but I am not, I am just telling you what
is in my heart. Please pray to God the Almighty not to some god where you must
follow regardless you want or doesnít.
Thank you my friend, and ask you to forgive me for my bad spelling and writing.
God bless you and be-careful.

Dany, I must resound Angel's question. Namesdontmatter actually said that until now he had no real need for religion. Which would mean that he is not a Christian. So how could you tell him that he is a good Christian. And if he were a Christian it certainly wouldn't be good behavior to be contemplating reversion for the sake of a woman. Also, you know very little about the situation as little was disclosed. It is very narrow of you to tell this man to run from this woman. He is obviously trying to do what is right for both himself and the woman he loves. I for one applaud his honesty and zeal for seeking after the truth. If it weren't for this woman he may have stayed away from God altogether. This woman will surely be blessed for bringing his young man closer to his Creator.

Namesdontmatter, keep reading the Qur'an. This woman was good to give you a copy. If you are interested in obtaing more literature about Islam, you can request it from Islamicity's home page. I have gotten quite a bit a literature from this web site during my religious search.

Posted By: dany_steward
Date Posted: 18 March 2005 at 4:31pm

Mach 18, 2005

TO:

Angel.

Dear who
ever you are, It is very interesting how I could and any body can see from
miles away when some one is just trying to deceive you while one is trying to
survive in a world full with unnecessary racist or hatred.

Angel, I
thank you for the time you took in writing few words to me as to including how
I perceive the Brother in question is or not a Christian.

I am a
Christian and if it offends you, I truly sorry, but God the Almighty only wants
me to tell the truth nonetheless otherwise.

I know you
might have trouble understanding my concern, but that is how I feel in my
heart, and to tell you the truth, I love to tell you God the Almighty love you,
but He doesnít love the sin or worse He doesnít love any one who follow anything
else but God the truth God the Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ.

I am hoping
these words find you in a position so you can assimilate them and comprehend
them for a fine reply.

Danny.

Posted By: dany_steward
Date Posted: 18 March 2005 at 4:37pm

Mach 18, 2005

TO:

sarahrosecurry.

Dear who
ever you are, It is very interesting how I could and any body can see from
miles away when some one is just trying to deceive you while one is trying to
survive in a world full with unnecessary racist or hatred.

Sarahrosecurry, I
thank you for the valuable time you took in writing few words to me as to including how
I perceive the Brother in question is or not a Christian.

I am a
Christian and if it offends you, I truly sorry, but God the Almighty only wants
me to tell the truth nonetheless otherwise.

I know you
might have trouble understanding my concern, but that is how I feel in my
heart, and to tell you the truth, I love to tell you God the Almighty love you,
but He doesnít love the sin or worse He doesnít love any one who follow anything
else but God the truth God the Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ.

I am hoping
these words find you in a position so you can assimilate them and comprehend
them for a fine reply.

Danny.

Posted By: sarahrosecurry
Date Posted: 18 March 2005 at 6:59pm

Danny, Your Christianity does not offend me in the least. It is a noble thing that you believe so strongly in your faith. My entire family are Christians. I was as well until just a few short months ago. However their is one thing that I do take offense to...you elude to the fact that I follow another besides God. This is not true. In fact, Islam is the religion to bring humainty closer to the Creator. It is more a monotheistic religion than Christianity. As Christians pray to Jesus Christ, not the Creator. The Trinity exists of three separate enities worshipped together as one God. How is the worship of the Trinity following the one true God?

Posted By: fezziwig
Date Posted: 18 March 2005 at 8:15pm

Originally posted by dany_steward

...but He doesnít love the sin or worse He doesnít love any one who follow anything else but God the truth God the Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ.

...

Danny.

Well, I guess that leaves me out: I don't believe in the divinity of jesus.

F

Posted By: balqees
Date Posted: 19 March 2005 at 2:28am

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Good day to all.

Namesdontmatter-as has already been suggested to you, do pray to God. Ask Him and Him alone for guidance in this matter, and in all matters always.

Who knows, perhaps this has been ordained for you, to meet this woman and desire her as your life partner, only to give you the chance and opportunity to come to Islam and closer to God???

For sure, research it first, study and learn about Islam, and then make your decision later.

I admire you for your own apprehension against yourself and the possible desire to come to Islam merely for a woman. I mean, no one should change religion or claim a faith to a religion merely because of marriage or any other worldly reason.

It is a very personal and important aspect of life, and so one should make their decision about religion according to their own true inner desires and inclinations.

I hope to see more of your posts and updates here.

Please do feel free to come with questions about Islam. We would like to help you along your way.

balqees.

Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 20 March 2005 at 8:59pm

Dany - ok, you never answered my question about the original poster thou, where you think the original poster is Christian ? Reprase; where in the post did you pick up on that they are christian?

Sorry to disappoint, Dany, but at the time of my posting I was not a Christian.

That being said, the definition of "Christian" is simply one who
follows the teachings of Jesus and believes him to be the Christ.
Christ is derived from the Greek word for "annointed one." Since we as
Muslims believe that he is a prophet, or messenger of God, does that
mean that we are Christians as well? It would probably be so if the
religion was named "Christianity" because of the definition of christianos, but I think it's so named because it was Jesus' title or surname... or am I wrong?

Anyway, I thought I might 'update' everyone on my situation. Since my
posting, my beloved has given to me as a gift a copy of the Qu'ran in
English and Arabic, as well as a prayer rug and a compass for finding
Qibla. I am anxious to learn as much as I can about the religion, and
eventually go to Mosque and say the Shahaadah. I've even been
considering alternate names (Mine might be unacceptable by Islamic
standards, but I still need to look that up.) In other words, things
are going very well but I still have lots of work and learning to do.
As I said before, I don't know many Muslims where I live and would love
to become friends with anyone here. Thanks again for all the help and
kind words.

Posted By: DavidC
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 7:35am

The title Christ specifically refers to the Messiah awaited by the Jews. The
Qur'an specifically names Isa as the Christ more than once. So we
Christians and Muslims do agree Isa was the fufillment of prophecy.

3:45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a
Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in
honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those
nearest to Allah.

DavidC

Posted By: dany_steward
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 11:05am

Iíll be back with an
answer to you all. Especially to you my friend who is bout to embark on a not
known passage.

Posted By: dany_steward
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 4:42pm

Dany - ok, you never answered my question about the original poster
thou, where you think the original poster is Christian ? Reprase; where in
the post did you pick up on that they are christian?

Peace

Angel.

Monday, March 21, 2005

Mr. Angel.

Dear Sir.

ŅAt times we all sometime
wonder if the real question as to what we mean is, or is it the fact that the
question we all at times sometime wonder?. The post to the question you are
concern of, isnít really what your thoughts are, but what you really mean is
Ņam I who am I? Very obvious even in your spelling and the meaning of your
thoughts, it is clear to comprehend you arenít in search for answers, but
rather to dissolve one in knowledge that isnít human knowledge, but divine
knowledge.

Furthermore, the word
Christian actually doesnít apply only to those who believe in Jesus Christ the
Savior the Son of God the Almighty. Every human being is a Christian regardless
who we all are. A Christian, (masculine or feminine grammar noun substantive
and adjective) is every human being.

In addition, even as we all
suppose to believe one God (masculine)the Supreme Master, the Creator, is for
all, nevertheless the fact is that,we
all divide in-to to many different denominations, and some of those
denominations are worshippers of satan himself.

I understand you do not
agree with my believes, but as I stated above, I doesnít expect it to happens.
Nonetheless one day we all will know for sure, as I know for sure God isnít one
that gets happy if I kill in his name, nor if I hate those that arenít of my
own believe.

Yeah, Mr. Angel, the post
is clear right in my mind, right in your mind even thou you might not see it or
rather comprehended. And by the way I am not in the position to tell you what
to believe but to tell you what is to believe, and also that God the Almighty
doesnít forget but forgive.

In advance, I thank you and
although I am a Follower of Jesus Christ, I am hoping this post find you well and
in a position for a fine reply.

Sincerely,

Mr. Danny Steward

Posted By: dany_steward
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 4:44pm

Sorry to disappoint, Dany, but at the time of
my posting I was not a Christian.

That being said, the definition of "Christian" is simply one who
follows the teachings of Jesus and believes him to be the Christ. Christ is
derived from the Greek word for "annointed one." Since we as Muslims
believe that he is a prophet, or messenger of God, does that mean that we are
Christians as well? It would probably be so if the religion was named
"Christianity" because of the definition of christianos, but I think
it's so named because it was Jesus' title or surname... or am I wrong?

Anyway, I thought I might 'update' everyone on my situation. Since my posting,
my beloved has given to me as a gift a copy of the Qu'ran in English and
Arabic, as well as a prayer rug and a compass for finding Qibla. I am anxious
to learn as much as I can about the religion, and eventually go to Mosque and
say the Shahaadah. I've even been considering alternate names (Mine might be
unacceptable by Islamic standards, but I still need to look that up.) In other
words, things are going very well but I still have lots of work and learning to
do. As I said before, I don't know many Muslims where I live and would love to
become friends with anyone here. Thanks again for all the help and kind words.

Monday, March 21, 2005

Dear
friend.

This is my
reply, before hand Iíll like to have you in peace, do not be disturb or
disappointed, rather be happy, for because you arenít alone on your way to a
passage that isnít well knownfor you.

Iíll like
to tell you a little bout me. I grow up in a ranch, where we were bout 200
people I mean a very small town. Once upon a time a man came to our home door
and asks us to give him a gulp of water for he was thirsty. We comply, and
there on that man continues to say: I am Mr. Peter and Iíll like to give you
all a word of Salvation. He then continues, and says: Jesus Christ isnít only a
man but the son of God the Almighty the Creator. I remember asking him why
Jesus Christ dies in the cross, and he the man reply to me, because we never
understood the message he has for all us humans.So he continue saying, salvation is for all, but it takes every
one of us to accept Jesus Christ as the Savior the Son of God in our hearts.

As I grow
up, I also remember one day, having so many problems, troubles and you can
imagine any sort of problem a child might have at the age of 3. My mom and my
dad separated, we were 5 the youngest was 6 months and the oldest was 9 year
old. Life was just like that just trouble and more trouble of any sort. My dad
was an animal with me and my two sisters. He rapes them and as I recall, he was
bout to rape me to, but thank God it didnít happen. At age of 14 my dad ask me
to go away from home, and my life wasnít going to be the same but better, at
least I didnít have to suffer in his hands with all sort of punishments. But
the time when by and I had to live all by myself, having no one to tell me how
or otherwise how to live.

Oh well,
sorry but I donít know why but my mind was sort of flying in a windstorm
milestone, hahahaha, I canít believe, but tears are flowing down my cheek. I
wonder if after accepting Jesus Christ as my Savior my life change. Yes it did
change for the better; I stop smoking, drinking, and drugs.

Oh yes, I
forgot to mention I was a sailor, and yes my life took a 180 degree turn not
for the better, I got even worse. But yes it comes Jesus Christ in-to my life
and everything change, yes for the better.

I been
listening to the TV Stations, the Radio Broadcasting, and even in the Internet
all bout the killing of so many innocent people in hands of Islam (I enhance
the definition). But before I say that, let us ask us all the following. Letís
say for the sake of peace that Islam has nothing to do with the killing by
beheading, car bombs, etc. Letís say that Islam has to nothing to do with it.
So, I myself ask a question in return, Ņwhy Islam donít do nothing to stop
those that call themselves Islamic Muslims, which kill in the name of their god
Allah, that do horrible things against humanity. Yes why Islam donít do
anything bout that?

Instead,
Islam in return point fingers at the United States of America and other Nations
as if they are the guilty ones. And I remember on the tidal wave, how USA sends
aid to those many Muslims in tragedy.

Ok, my
friend, I wonder if I enhance to make myself comprehended or if I just have you
waste your time, by saying that Jesus Christ do save, if we acknowledge him
accepting him in our hearts. You say, that if you are wrong, no my friend, you
arenít, because salvation hasnít comes to your heart, even as you think you
werenít who you think you are right now, but deep in your heart you have a
space that do concern you, because God the Almighty wants to fill it with love
through Jesus Christ his son.

I think, I
ask you before, to consider what you are about to do in becoming Muslim.
Remember this; once you become a Muslim you will never be able to turn back.
Also, I wonder how is that you havenít seeing whatís going on in Iraq, in
Chechnya, in Afghanistan, and so many other parts of the world, I wonder how
you live with it by just ignoring the fact that those doing the beheading, car
bombs and so on, are muslins, and also how is it that you donít acknowledge
that those doing all those atrocities to human life are doing it in the name of
Allah the god of the religion you are considering to become afull time member.

ŅMy friend
do I make myself understood?

I hope
this, my post find you on a day where you can add a fine reply to one who only
believe sincerity and honesty goes together and never apart, may God Bless you.

Truthfully,

Mr. Danny
Steward

PsÖ..
Forgive my calligraphy or spelling.

Posted By: adji
Date Posted: 21 March 2005 at 5:43pm

Dear Dany,

I just give you a comment on the technical part. Please paste to the note pad first after you copy from the original source before you paste it here. So the following text will not show up here:

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

So your post will be cleaner. Thanks.

PeaceAdji

Posted By: femme
Date Posted: 22 March 2005 at 7:43am

I was reading over a few topics here and this caught my attention. A
young man comes to this board and posts about his intentions or
requests answers, meaning that he is interested in learning about
something.

Originally posted by dany_steward

Listen, remember this; God is one God and He is the
father of Jesus Christ our Savior. You are concern bout getting or not
getting married to a women that obviously is the opposite to your
believe and must certain to my believe to. You are to young,
nonetheless, you are a good man and a good Christian.

People like you, who might not know anything about his situation base
their advice on assumptions. This is a very low characteristic to
possess, perhaps you should work on getting rid of that.

There is only one God and he has no son and Jesus is a prophet - just a
prophet, not your savior. No one man can save you from the sins that
you've commited or will commit. This young man is not a Christian, nor
is he anything. In fact I recall him posting saying that he is of no
religion and is trying to learn about this one. Now if you
are so negative and blinded by a small amount of hate to see through
any truth, you should not be giving anyone advice.

Originally posted by dany_steward

Now, I can tell you this, do not married a women
that you will have to follow her to your believes and that is not
possible. God the Almighty is given me the opportunity to tell you to
run from that relationship due to that you will be not be happy.

You can read the future? You know that he will not be happy? God may
have given you the opportunity to run into this forum and give ill
advice but maybe he also gave me the opportunity to run in too and show
you the backward/negative views you have about the world? Don't advice
anyone to not do something if you are only basing your advice on
assumptions, so don't assume he is a Muslim or a Christian.

Now let me say this too, you are a Christian and that does not offend
me. However, my views on how you think of your religion are somewhat
different but that is an entirely different topic that I can get into
with you on a different forum.

What I am interested in is the questions that namesdontmatter has to
ask, he has not asked them yet and everyone was just quick to give him
advice.

Okay, since this topic is not about Dany I'd like to move on. The original poster said he has questions and we never heard them.

Originally posted by namesdontmatter

I have asked God for guidance, and have decided
to submit to whatever He chooses for me. Until then, I will be simply
learning from Islamicity, the Qu'ran (She has bought me a copy of
it:)), and other such websites.

I have a question for you too, in this equation the girl is the one
that made you interested in Islam. If you took away the girl, will you
still be interested in Islam? If you answer that question to yourself -
you will know if you are really interested for yourself or for
her.

Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 22 March 2005 at 8:29am

Good question! Athla, and shall try to take this direction to a further step with namesdontmatter. In fact the girl may be a motivation for you, namesdontmattter, to get to know about Islam, but religion is not like a pick and drop kind of a thing. It needs deep understanding of it with its full belief through rationale learning. Secondly, during the ups and downs of life with this girl (hopefully you get together in future life time), it would be Islam that would guide you to adopt the right path and may not be the girl herself (assuming you learned more than her due to your curosity). So, it is always prudent not to adopt Islam just for her, but to know about Islam through her and adopt it only if you are mentally convinced about its truthfullness. Remember, in Islam, one's love for Allah must be the ultimate supreme objective, superior than any other materialisic object. I have full respect for your emotions as you must be overwhelmingly sincere for her, but please remember that all emotions are time based and do get change in life, even if you decide to live together for the rest of your life. However, if you come to a stage where you decide not to adopt Islam (whatever the reason may be), then, though your fear of losing your "dream" girl may be a big factor. But, I tell you, you will be better off without her than bearing a burdon of being a hypocrate through out the rest of your life. My best wishes and sincere prayers are with you. Cheers!

Posted By: namesdontmatter
Date Posted: 23 March 2005 at 8:32am

To those who ask if I would become a Muslim if I had never met this
girl, I must admit, I cannot see any way that I ever would have become
interested in Islam if it weren't for this girl. However, I am
beginning to realize that she has been instrumental in bringing me
closer to God through Islam, and God has been instrumental in bringing
me closer to her.

"If you took away the girl, would you still be interested in Islam?"

At this point, I would... but she has been my #1 source for information
and tools for obtaining information when I had questions that she could
answer. It would be much harder to learn and practice anything if she
were not around.

Posted By: abdnur
Date Posted: 24 March 2005 at 6:26pm

namesdontmatter, I have followed your posts from the biginning and want to congratulate you on two great choices you have made, one: the girl and the other{: the creator of the girl.

I saw great potential from the beginning, and I considered you already a muslim even though you didn't say that you were a muslim.

The prophet said "the best among you before ISLAM will be the best among you in ISLAM". The fact that you have been good (don't drink,smoke,fornicate,etc..,) helping others is a sign from God that He has been looking after you and rewarding you all along, even though you may not have been aware of it (just attributing it to "being lucky"). I like your honesty, saying had it not been for the girl you would not have considered ISLAM, but I want you to look at it from a different perspetive. Had it not been for God you would never had met the girl and never have known ISLAM. So whenever you want to thank someone, don't forget to thank God also. We owe everything to Him, what you like in the girl, is due to what her Creator has bestowed on her (beauty,character).

I which you good luck and may God bestow more of his blessings, the road ahead of you may be difficult but be patient and He will help you.

Abdnur

-------------seek and you shall find, ask and it shall be given to you.

Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 31 March 2005 at 7:19pm

Hi dany

wow, and all before getting to know me You don't even know where I stand, my thoughts, you don't even know what I believe in

I've read many other similar stories before, there is no need for more, thanks for the offer but will decline.

I've read many other similar stories before, there is no need for more, thanks for the offer but will decline.

Angel, most such stories are forgeries, written by Christians or other non-Muslims. There are numerous inaccuracies in these "Muslims'" descriptions of Islamic practices and texts, so I assume that they are likewise forgeries. It is truly amazing how far some people will go to in order to defame another's faith.

-------------Yusuf

Posted By: AhmadJoyia
Date Posted: 01 April 2005 at 6:08am

Alright Mr. Dany, you got all these stories, true or untrue is not my concern, however, what have you got out of all this is rather important to me. Lets us talk. Speak up what Islamic principles you think you found objectionable and what are the references that let you conclude that. Only then we can continue our discussions. You may like to open up new threads for each of the issue that you like to raise, but please, don't be mislead by the ignorances of the others. Do your own research and we are (or atleast I am) here to guide you out of our own limited knowledge about Islam with full references. All your "friends" in the stories seemed to be ignorant and they never tried to ask those who know it better than themselves. Hopefully you would not reject my offer if you are sincere in finding the truth with evidences and not on mysteric beliefs. Cheers!

Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 3:56am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum

after further discussion with another moderator i have decided to remove the posts.

a note to those who reported the posts one report is sufficient to draw our atention to the posts in question.

A 24 hr period to reply is an unreasnoble amount of time to expect from
part time moderator's and simply becouse there has not been a course of
action taken does not Imply your report has been ignored. It may simply
mean we have not seen it yet as was my case, i saw the posts after page
6 began and i was emailed the report.

Sabr is required by all!

-------------Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 4:09am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

Danny,

You are welcome to post your own personel experiances as long as they
follow forum guidlines. You have broken the following forum rules hence
your posts have been removed.

1. A generally pleasant demeanor and cordiality in language is requested during discussions.

4. The subject of your message should be in accordance
with the theme of the forum. (if the text is found irrelevant to the
theme, it may be deleted).We also request you to avoid straying from
the 'topic' of discussion.

7. Spammingof any kind is not allowed. Any response to
spammers will be deleted along with the spam. This includes multiple
copies (2 or more) of one message in one and/or many forums. (if this
behavior is spotted several times, by the same user we may remove ALL
the copies of that message, including all the responses below them).

8. Posting several messages at random and not responding
to the generated questions or dialogues following the original posts
may also be considered as spamming.

9. We request you not to post URLs of sites the sole existence of which is to slander a religion or spread lies about it.

11. Slanderous, defamatory, obscene, indecent, lewd,
pornographic, violent, abusive, insulting, threatening and harassing
comments are not tolerated. ALL comments by the person who adopts such
a manner may be removed and the person will lose the privilege of
participating in the forums in future. We will try to block attempts
from the same person to sign up with a different name as well.

16.Your participation in discussion forums is a
privilege and not a right. "Free Speech" here means that you don't pay
for speaking your mind as opposed to any other belief(s) you might
have. We reserve the right to remove any comment or comments that are
not in line with the above rules, without giving reasons, notifications
or explanations to anyone.

-------------Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Posted By: Angel
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 4:13am

Originally posted by Yusuf.

angel, i only referred you to deist in case you don't believe me when I say those posts of dany's are forgeries. since I know they are, I have no need of asking him.

oops, too late, already paged/emailed him.

Sorry for misunderstanding you I thought you wanted/asked me to notify Deist for him to come here and post his opinion.

Yusuf, are ALL apostates stories forgeries ? ok I'll grant you that some could be forgeries from christians and non muslims to defame Islam. But what about stories that are not forgeries ?

after further discussion with another moderator i have decided to remove the posts.

a note to those who reported the posts one report is sufficient to draw our atention to the posts in question.

A 24 hr period to reply is an unreasnoble amount of time to expect from part time moderator's and simply becouse there has not been a course of action taken does not Imply your report has been ignored. It may simply mean we have not seen it yet as was my case, i saw the posts after page 6 began and i was emailed the report.

Sabr is required by all!

Assalamu alaikum,

akhi rami, if you have limited access to a computer, this is understandable. I know this is the case with akhi Moskva. However, I have seen an administrator logged in numerous times in the past 36 hours and no action was taken against these posts. It takes no consultation whatsoever to determine that dany's posts are violations of the rules, so I fail to see what the problem was. Again, this is not directed at you, since I have not seen you logged in during this entire period. As you state, you are a part time moderator, and although I do not know you I know that Moskva would have dealt with this issue if he had the time. It appears this is the case with you as well.

Indeed I am lacking in Sabr, but at the same time I realize that lies about of Faith and Beloved Prophet, salallahu alaihi wassalam, may very well be read by someone actually considering reversion and may turn that person away from Islam, Allah forbid. It is only for this reason I am being so adamant and impatient.

-------------Yusuf

Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 02 April 2005 at 10:51am

Originally posted by Angel

Yusuf, are ALL apostates stories forgeries ? ok I'll grant you that some could be forgeries from christians and non muslims to defame Islam. But what about stories that are not forgeries ?

Absolutely not. For example, in the old forum deist posted his story: compare that to the garbage dany posted and you can clearly see the difference between a sincere person and a liar. However, when someone claims they were at one time a devout Muslim but makes statements about Islamic practices and theology that are completely false, as was the case in dany's posts, the conclusion is obvious. Additionally, the site dany took these stories from is a fraud in and of itself. The owner of the site claims to be an Iranian Islamic apostate with knowledge of Arabic, but the "Arabic" pages he has set up clearly demonstrate that in fact he does not know Arabic; they are disconnected cut and pastes from other sites. Additionally, nowhere on his site is there anything in Farsi, and when I challenged him to demonstrate his knowledge of Farsi to prove that he is in fact Iranian, he refused to respond. He is a westerner whose purpose is to slander Islam in the English speaking world by posing as a middle easterner.

-------------Yusuf

Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 3:04am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum yusuf

I dont have limited access, i have limited time.

it is irelavent that you saw a moderator logged on since the report
goes to the persons email adress and not the inbox at this site, also
sometimes moderators like to wait and confirm or consult (regardless of
there personel opinion) on an appropriate course of action before one
is taken.

I think you should wait for an official responce from a moderator beffore forming judgment.

Even if we had decided to leave the posts there one of the moderator's
would have stated the reason why the decision was made, but no action
for or against the post's was taken during the 36 hour period you
stated.

I was being leniant in my actions akhi some moderators sugested a sterner action.

Impatience is a veil on the heart, Something we all sufur. Khair insha allah.

-------------Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Posted By: rami
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 4:21am

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum asma

I moved your post to forum_topics.asp?FID=47&PN=1" target="_self" class="boldLink - Groups Ė Women (Sisters) becouse i think it belongs there, and more women will get a chance to see it.

-------------Rasul Allah (sallah llahu alaihi wa sallam) said: "Whoever knows himself, knows his Lord" and whoever knows his Lord has been given His gnosis and nearness.

Posted By: Yusuf.
Date Posted: 03 April 2005 at 12:15pm

Originally posted by rami

Bi ismillahir rahmanir raheem

assalamu alaikum yusuf

I dont have limited access, i have limited time.

it is irelavent that you saw a moderator logged on since the report goes to the persons email adress and not the inbox at this site, also sometimes moderators like to wait and confirm or consult (regardless of there personel opinion) on an appropriate course of action before one is taken.

I think you should wait for an official responce from a moderator beffore forming judgment.

Even if we had decided to leave the posts there one of the moderator's would have stated the reason why the decision was made, but no action for or against the post's was taken during the 36 hour period you stated.

I was being leniant in my actions akhi some moderators sugested a sterner action.

Impatience is a veil on the heart, Something we all sufur. Khair insha allah.

walaikum assalam,

fair enough, akhi. let's put this behind us Insha'Allah.

-------------Yusuf

Posted By: femme
Date Posted: 04 April 2005 at 8:45am

Anyways, going back on topic. I had the chance to look at a few interesting facts and thought to pass on what I found out.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/convert/islam_conversion_main.htm - Here
you can find a lot of the interesting things I thought would be down
your path.