Some things to remember, Not every style is able to be bonused everywhere. For example I 'think' strikers are unable to be bonused in parry (though it may be total parry that can't...) and some styles are bonused in some areas more often than others.

Just to help you out, here are the styles and the skills they can / cannot be bonus/hose in (doing this from memory, so if others see a mistake correct it so we don't lead him astray - inadvertantly):

AB -- cannot be bonused in DEC

BA -- cannot be bonused in RIP and DEC

LU -- can be bonused in all skills

PL -- can be bonused in all skills

PR -- can be bonused in all skills

PS -- can be bonused in all skills

SL -- can be bonused in all skills

ST -- cannot be bonused in ATT (apart from +1 for Ambidexterity)

TP -- cannot be bonused in PAR

WS -- can ONLY be bonused in ATT and PAR

I also have a priority skill chart around here somewhere that gives you an idea of what skills most styles tend to learn the most and which ones they shun. I'll see if I can find it just to give you a little insight on styles and learning tendencies (may help in picking out favorite learn more easily).

Seraphim53

Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:05 am Post subject:

The_Master wrote:

Thanks for taking the time to put that together, well done.

One question, and maybe I should know this, but what is the "CIC"?

Input calculator where you get the rough draft of what your warrior 'should' look like.

Available on terrabloods website, and Assur's old palm tracker.

The_Master

Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2011 6:01 am Post subject:

Thanks for taking the time to put that together, well done.

One question, and maybe I should know this, but what is the "CIC"?

The Consortium

Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:13 am Post subject:

The_Master wrote:

Madwand and Seraphim, thanks, I think that clears it up for me.

The Master,
This spot is posting in DM93 this upcoming turn. It refers to information available on Terrablood (in some cases automated into Terrablood) and should help you determine skill hosing/blessing a little better.

WARRIOR SKILL BASE, A REAL LIFE EXAMPLE

Settle down class. Get rid of that gum, Lugh. Assur, quit passing notes to Jorja. Quiet down; quiet down.
Today, using the CIC (I am sure you all have requested and received your copies from RSI by now.) we will take a real life example to predict and determine starting skills. This example, coupled with last turn’s lecture should put you in a good position to pass the final. Take good notes, students!
“Chronic Pain” 32-4593 of team Disillusioned was designed from 5-6-18-10-8-10-13 to be a 9-6-18-15-9-10-17 striker. First, we will predict his skill base. Then we will observe his initial warrior profile. Lastly, we will summarize what we know about any skill bonuses he might have.
For the purposes of this lecture, we will use the following code: for stats – ST = strength, CN = con, SZ = size, WT = wit, WL = will, SP = speed, and DF = deftness; for skills – I = initiative, R = riposte, A = attack, P = parry, F = defense, and D = decisiveness.
Using the BAGMAN2 SKILL CHART from the CIC, we see that:
9 ST provides 2 A and 2 P
6 CN provides no skills
18 SZ provides 2 I and negative/minus 2 P and 2 F
15 WT provides 9 I, 3 R, 7 A, 7 F, and 2 D
9 WL provides 2 A, 2 P, 2 F, 3 D
10 SP provides 2 I, 3 R, 2 F 4 D
17 DF provides 6 I, 7 R, 8 A, 8 P, 8 F
Totaling this created skills of 17,13,19,10,17,9 (always speak I,R,A,P,F,D in that order)
Sounds pretty awesome so far! But next we must apply the style modifications, from the STYLE MODIFIER CHART on the CIC. This warrior is a STRIKER, and the chart indicates that striker skill mods are -7, -4, -12, -9, -12, -1. (Again, always using the order, I,R,A,P,F,D.) A different style would have quite different modifiers, all of which are zero or negative modifiers.
Combining(adding) the skills from BAGMAN2 and STYLE MODIFIER indicates that Chronic Pain would expect starting skills of 10I ,9R ,7A,1P ,5F ,8D. One note to this is that on the Terrablood website is a module which allows one to input the stat numbers and the starting skills and the expected warrior profile is provided. But, today, we are learning “long hand”.
O.k., now, let’s check to see if we can predict any wit statements. (Wit statements, if any, always appear on the warrior profile just below the intelligence/wit level.) These are key to determining skill bonuses or hoses. Using the HIGH WIT STATEMENT chart, checking first initiative (I), we see that at 15WT (In this example, we will always use the 15WT line on each skill because the warrior in question has 15WT.), and low order, 10-12 skills should provide a “With a very aggressive and clever fighting skill” statement.. Continuing to riposte, we have nine skills which is lower that the low order requirement of 10, so we should expect no riposte statement. Our expected 7 attack skills do, however, indicate that we should get the “Has an unusual fighting style that confuses many opponents” statement. Our one parry skill will not get us a statement as 6 skills are required to get anything. And lastly, our 5 defense skills should get us the low order (3-6 base skills required) defense statement of “avoids blows well”. To summarize we expect three wit statements, one each for I, A, and F.
Using the CIC, we can also predict endurance, punishment level (hit points), carry, and damage-doing, so let’s also do that. Endurance = WLx(ST+CN) = 9x(9+6) = 135, which indicates “very little” on the CIC. Hit points are 3.75CN+(1.1SZ+0.4WL) =
3.75x6 + (1.1x18 + 0.4X9) = 22.5+19.8+3.6 = 45.9 = “Cannot take a lot”. Carry (per the encumbrance chart) for 9ST and 6 CN = “A carry”, which is very little or 9 points carry max. And lastly, damage-doing, per the damage chart, for 9ST and 18SZ = “great”.
We have concluded our “predictions” or “expectations”, and when we get the warrior profile, w will know what the warrior truly has, and whether or not he is hosed or bonused anywhere. So let’s see what the actual Chronic Pain warrior profile said.
………………………………………………….
CHRONIC PAIN
Fights using the STRIKING ATTACK style
Is AMBIDEXTROUS
Is INTELLIGENT
nothing short of a genius at keeping his foes off balance and in trouble
has an unusual fighting style that confuses many opponents
avoids blows well
has POOR ENDURANCE
CANNOT take a LOT of PUNISHMENT
Can only carry a VERY LITTLE WEIGHT in armor and weapons
Does GREAT DAMAGE
STRENGTH = 9
CONSTITUTION = 6
SIZE = 18
WIT = 15
WILL = 9
SPEED = 10
DEFTNESS = 17
………………………………………………………
So what does this profile tell us about the warrior. First, accept that the profile is “true”. We may have been calculating and predicting from charts and data before, but what is on the profile is the warrior in fact.
Notice first, the ambidextrous bonus. This is special. Being left or right handed is merely a statement, but being ambidextrous adds one attack skill o the warrior’s base. Had we known the warrior was going to be ambi, we would have added one attack skill to our prediction, making his predicted base attack at 8. (But, of course, we didn’t/couldn’t.)
The warrior has three statements under wit/intelligence. The first is the Initiative statement, but not the one we predicted. If you look on the HIGH WIT chart, you will see that the “nothing short of genius …” is a high order statement, indicating 13+ Init skills! Great! We predicted 10!. He as 13I+. Therefore, he is bonused +3 or +4. As to riposte, we expected no statement at 9 skills, and he got none. Hence, we could consider that he is mode, but, in actuality, we only truly know he has less than 10 R skills since he received no statement. He could , then, be less than 9. Therefore, we know he is mode to -4 R. (+ or – 4 is the most blessing/hosing possible.) Moving on to attack, where we expect the low order statement for 7-9 A skills. This is even after we added the one A to our calculated 7 base for the ambi condition. Surely enough, we received the “has an unusual fighting ….”we expected, so we know this warrior has 7-9 A skills. We expect 8, so he could be from -1 to +1A. There is no wit statement for parry, nor did we expect one as his expected 1P is less than the low wit minimum of three. What we know, then, is that he could have 2P and be +1, or he could have two less than we calculated and be hosed. (It is probably important to state at this time that, depending on style, warriors are sometimes limited to which skills can be hosed or bonused. But that is a lecture for another day.) Last, then comes defense, where our calculated 5F indicated that we should get the low wit statement of “avoids blows well’ and this warrior did get it. We now know he has 3 to 6 F skills so he could be -2 hosed to +1 bonused. There is no wit statement for decisiveness.
One last offering, you can know even more about your warrior’s starting skills if he were to start with a rating (e.g. expert attack) as you would then know that your warrior has between 16-19 skills in that category. There are a few very fine warriors that even start with an Advanced Expert in a skill. (20 skills +)
Let’s make a final check of endurance and damage-doing. The charts predicted very little endurance, and the warrior received poor. He may be slightly bonused. The warrior received the great damage-doing our charts predicted, so he is probably mode.
There you have it. Your last example of evaluating the warrior’s starting skill base. Learn it. Have the charts available. You will definitely be tested on this subject on your final.
Teacher

The_Master

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:56 pm Post subject:

Madwand and Seraphim, thanks, I think that clears it up for me.

Seraphim53

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:46 pm Post subject:

The_Master wrote:

tas2826 wrote:

Okay another skill question.

How do you determine when you are bonused?

I get the obvious ones, like:

- Ambidextrous get a +1 on attack

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

First, am I correct on the above two points?

Second, let's say I roll a guy and he is 10 attack initially, is there any way to determine if he is say, +2 attack bonused?

Maybe this is in the charts and I am missing it. Thanks in advance for the help.

This is me, sorry, cookies logged me in on the old account.

Also, above, clarification:

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

that would actually be +4 bonused. Not sure if that is possible, but illustrates the question.

If on your test design you see he should be +12 Attack and he comes back with an expert, then you are right he was bonused +4 to attack.

To clarify, the skill bonuses do NOT count towards the 20 learned skills. It would look something like this:

Your design should be +12 Attack. He comes back with Expert already which means +4 in Attack. He then spends 20 fights and learns 20 Attack skills (Putting him at 36 attack skills total, or Advanced master +2) You could then train any stat that gave you attack up to 21max before ever getting in to ADM.

Some things to remember, Not every style is able to be bonused everywhere. For example I 'think' strikers are unable to be bonused in parry (though it may be total parry that can't...) and some styles are bonused in some areas more often than others.

Such as it's not unusual to see a slasher bonused in initiative, bashers seem to like to come with extra attack.

There are sometimes ways to see IF your warrior is bonused based on his wit statement, and sometimes you can even tell by how much. The easiest way is to simply wait till you get a rating in the skill (such as expert) and then subtract the skills you've learned and see if the numbers you were supposed to have and the numbers you actually have match.

Bonuses (and being 'hosed') are what most managers who love the tournaments really try for. Having a 17 wit, will, Deftness warrior is nice, but that same warrior that was blessed at birth with +4 attack, +4 defense and some extra Decise is the kind of warrior that managers want clones of.

You can usually associate a heavily bonused warrior with tourney victor or even tourney champion.. specially if he comes with nice bonuses and nice favorite weapons. (such as Aimed blows who have a fist favorite weapon).

Hope that answers your questions. If not feel free to ask for more clarification.

Madwand

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:54 pm Post subject:

The_Master wrote:

tas2826 wrote:

Okay another skill question.

How do you determine when you are bonused?

I get the obvious ones, like:

- Ambidextrous get a +1 on attack

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

First, am I correct on the above two points?

Second, let's say I roll a guy and he is 10 attack initially, is there any way to determine if he is say, +2 attack bonused?

Maybe this is in the charts and I am missing it. Thanks in advance for the help.

This is me, sorry, cookies logged me in on the old account.

Also, above, clarification:

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

that would actually be +4 bonused. Not sure if that is possible, but illustrates the question.

If you enter your warriors stats into Terrablood, beside the Wit statements you will see the expected starting skills in each area. If the Wit statements differ, by reviewing again on Terrablood you can see if your warrior is bonused or hosed.

This doesn't always work, as in your example above, the Wit statement would be the same for 12 attack and 14 attack so there would be no way to determine his bonus until he reaches Expert.

If I understood the last part of your question, you can be hosed/bonused up to + or - 4 skills in each area with some style exceptions.

Madwand

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject:

The_Master wrote:

tas2826 wrote:

Okay another skill question.

How do you determine when you are bonused?

I get the obvious ones, like:

- Ambidextrous get a +1 on attack

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

First, am I correct on the above two points?

Second, let's say I roll a guy and he is 10 attack initially, is there any way to determine if he is say, +2 attack bonused?

Maybe this is in the charts and I am missing it. Thanks in advance for the help.

This is me, sorry, cookies logged me in on the old account.

Also, above, clarification:

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

that would actually be +4 bonused. Not sure if that is possible, but illustrates the question.

If you enter your warriors stats into Terrablood, beside the Wit statements you will see the expected starting skills in each area. If the Wit statements differ, by reviewing again on Terrablood you can see if your warrior is bonused or hosed.

This doesn't always work, as in your example above, the Wit statement would be the same for 12 attack and 14 attack so there would be no way to determine his bonus until he reaches Expert.

If I understood the last part of your question, you can be hosed/bonused up to + or - 4 skills in each area with some style exceptions.

The_Master

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:03 pm Post subject:

tas2826 wrote:

Okay another skill question.

How do you determine when you are bonused?

I get the obvious ones, like:

- Ambidextrous get a +1 on attack

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

First, am I correct on the above two points?

Second, let's say I roll a guy and he is 10 attack initially, is there any way to determine if he is say, +2 attack bonused?

Maybe this is in the charts and I am missing it. Thanks in advance for the help.

This is me, sorry, cookies logged me in on the old account.

Also, above, clarification:

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

that would actually be +4 bonused. Not sure if that is possible, but illustrates the question.

tas2826

Posted:
Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:57 pm Post subject:

Okay another skill question.

How do you determine when you are bonused?

I get the obvious ones, like:

- Ambidextrous get a +1 on attack

- If you use the charts or TB and determine your warriors starting skills and it comes out 12 on attack, then you submit him and his overview comes back expert in attack, then you know he is at least +2 bonused

First, am I correct on the above two points?

Second, let's say I roll a guy and he is 10 attack initially, is there any way to determine if he is say, +2 attack bonused?

Maybe this is in the charts and I am missing it. Thanks in advance for the help.

One Armed Bandit

Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:49 pm Post subject:

tas2826 wrote:

Ok, that all makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand. One other question, what about CN, is it tied to any skills?

Nope. You can train CN all day long and it will have no effect on your skills.

tas2826

Posted:
Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:36 pm Post subject:

Ok, that all makes sense. Thanks for helping me understand. One other question, what about CN, is it tied to any skills?

A few more questions/clarifications regarding the example warrior above:

1. When you train a stat, is the burn only in the affected area? For example, raising STR, according to the Terrablood chart equates to ATT and PAR skills. So, if STR is raised, do you burn skills just in ATT and PAR, or in all 6 areas?

A skill is only burned if you gain it while doing a stat train. So raising ST from 14 to 15 would result in 1 Attack and 1 Parry being added to your skills and burned (being removed from the total number of Attack and Parry skills you can learn before Primus).

Quote:

2. If you attempt a stat raise and fail, do you still burn the skills?

No.

Quote:

3. Again using the example above. I have an ATT potential of 36 total. I decide I want to train STR. I train to 10, I gain no skill for the raise, but burn one because of the raise. Next turn, I train STR to 11, this burns a skill, etc. up to 13 STR. So the net impact on my ATT skill potential is:

So now I have a potential of 32 ATT total? And after all that stat raising all I have gained (according to Terrablood) is ATT going from 16 to 17? And, in essence I have prevented my warrior form being able to achieve an Adv Master until Primus when the burns can be re-learned?

No skills are burned for any of those stat raises to levels that garner no skills.

Quote:

4. Last, how in the hell would a warrior ever make it to Blademaster? Even with no skill burns, the +5 skills available for going to Primus and maxxing stats, it seems nearly impossible. I take it there are not a lot of Blademasters running around Primus?

Lets say in the above example, you have the warrior who is 9-5-10-17-21-9-13 and has starting skills of 12 Ini 8 Rip 16 Att 6 Par 12 Def and 10 Dec. You don't train any stats and learn 20 skills in each area, he now has 32 Ini, 28 Rip, 36 Att, 26 Par, 32 Def, and 30 Dec.