Yesterday I defriended a user for the very first time here on LJ. This in and of itself is no big deal, especially considering the user is much happier now that I won't make any more comments at her public entries that may not agree with what she says. I was not being contrary on purpose, and I did not "stalk" her entries just to be mean. I started following her a short while ago because I thought we shared a love for Supernatural and its actors. I did leave many agreeable comments at her journal in the past, but apparently due to her large following (600+ or so she once claimed), she only remembers me when I disagree. I realized my dissenting voice was upsetting her, I didn't want to give her undue distress, so I told her I would remove myself from her journal. Leaving that I did, however it doesn't mean I concede our debate on the "greediness" of one Jensen Ackles in particular, and main Supernatural cast at large.

It all started with my reply to a comment at her entry that implied it was Jensen's fault his concert with Jason Manns were sold at such a high price. Here is what I said:

I think it's misleading to think Jensen Ackles and Jason Manns charged $1500 for their 45 minutes first time ever performance. In my opinion it's perfectly reasonable that the artists involved here want to perform for only a small audience, especially given Jensen is not a professional singer. With only 30 seats available, it's not outrageous the convention organizer auctioned out these tickets. Nobody held fans hands' and made them bid higher and higher. It's a simple matter of "Supply-and-Demand". One can snicker about Jensen and/or Jason's singing ability, however there're just too many people want and willing to pay to see/hear them sing and play guitar on stage together.

This was counter argued that it was indeed Jensen's fault because he should have known how popular he is, and that the small audience was not the problem, they should have just set a low fee for the tickets and draw lottery at the convention to see who gets to attend. To that logic I answered:

No, I think Jensen's opinion on his own popularity is irrelevant here. He has never done a concert before. There is no market pricing for his first ever concert. The auction is not an unfair way to settle who gets to attend the small event. For all I know, Jensen may even doubt anybody would shell out $100 for his singing performance, after all he's not a singer, hasn't released any songs/singles in his name except singing as a backup.

Lottery drawing maybe a way to go (for that matter, why sell the tickets at a cost at all? why not make it for free completely?), however others may feel it's not exactly fair either. Why someone mildly interested in seeing Jensen sing live gets to attend this due to his/her lucky chance while someone else who wants to see it so dearly and willing to pay a hefty amount has to sit out? At least with the auction, the people gets to attend are those who *really* wants to see this, and they have the financial means to do so.

I know I want to see it very badly and I don't have the financial ability to do so. But I don't ever think it's Jensen or Jason's fault. Nor do I think convention organizer is unfair to determine who gets to see this.

For this I got scoffed at that I, like many others, assumed Jensen and Jared lived in a bubble for not knowing how much people are willing to pay to see them. I was also reminded of an ill fated convention was recently canceled because these main actors asked too much in terms of their fees and special treatments. Again, I counter argued:

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying Jensen (or Jared) doesn't know his self worth. I'm saying his knowledge of his popularity is irrelevant in this discussion.

And I stand by my opinion that there is no known market pricing for Jensen's concert. How could it be? He has never done one before.

And speaking of the canceled convention, ... There can be no money made off the fans if the fans are not willing to pay. And I don't think the stars arbitrarily charge an amount for their fee. For all I know their contractual demand is an industry standard for stars of their caliber. If they overestimate their worth, they don't get paid any. Again, fair and square. I don't see a right vs. wrong here.

Meanwhile someone else commented under my thread there that she felt the auction was distasteful because The auction is simply a get-as-much-as-possible greedy money grabbing and blatant showing off Jensen's popularity. I had to make sure I understood what she's saying so I verified:

If I understand you correctly, you are saying auction is evil and distasteful unless it's done for charity then. A position I do not agree, but that's just me.

Surprisingly (or maybe not so surprising) I got the reply that Auction in general isn't. Just talking about this one specifically. (with the emphasize on "this")

Huh?! Did I miss something here? In my opinion, Jensen's talent is a commodity, just as, to a much smaller extent, every single one of ours is too. Don't we get paid everyday for what we can do at our jobs? As a commodity, why is it so awful for Jensen's case specifically? I admit I was curious so I had to ask: And why should this one be singled out from other auctions?

That was the extent of it because at this point I was clearly upsetting the user, she specifically asked me to stop. She and her guest expressed in no uncertain terms that a free concert won't kill Jensen and that (to paraphrase) a 45 minute concert cost less than $1500 won't starve Jensen. Their sentiment was Jensen and Jared pretty much owe fans because without us, they wouldn't even get a season 6 nor a TV Guide cover.

To respect the user since it was her journal I was commenting from, I did stop saying anything additional except announcing I was leaving her place. Even though I didn't argue further, I still strongly disagreed with their position. Sure, there are many things Jensen or Jared could have done that won't kill them per se, but that doesn't necessarily mean they should or obliged to do these things. And as to them owing fans, I was one of those who voted fervently for Supernatural on the TV Guide cover until my fingers were sore. But never did I feel I own the boys because of that. I voted for them because I owe them gratitude for their jobs well done. I consider myself rewarded when the boys publicly thanked fans for our support and Jensen vowed to work even harder. In all this, I feel the actors under no obligation to give fans freebies, and when they do, it's their gift to us. I hate to think that just because they did something nice once, all of a sudden, they are expected to do it every time, and when they don't, they become less of a decent human being in some fans eyes.

When this entry is posted, LA Con has drawn to a conclusion. Jensen Ackles and Jason Manns concert is either in progress or it may have been over as well. Even though I regret I'm not able to see it with my own eyes, I still wish everything went well, and everyone involved, from the performing artists to the attending audience had (or are having) a great time. Also I was looking for information regarding the convention earlier. I was surprised to see the LJ user I'm talking about here had gleefully wrote a report about it at an online news magazine to which she is the editor. This in particular left a bad taste in my mouth. I find it's hypocritical of her to fuel fans desire and fascination at seeing these actors. After all, I believe it was our tremendous eagerness at wanting to get up close and personal with these stars that drove up the cost.

Comments

The worst part though? Is that they OWE us? What the hell? How many TV shows have conventions like ours, where Jared and Jensen travel ALL OVER. For US. That is so aggravating. We voted for the TV guide cover, because we LOVE SPN, and we thought it deserved it, and it was amazing to see them so grateful. It touched my heart. It really did. I may have never met these guys, but I love them. They own my heart. And I don't think the auction was a bad way to handle it either - they can do whatever they want. If the fans are willing to pay, it's up to them, like you say. And seriously? Then she wrote about it? ASLDKFJSLKJF I DON'T EVEN *HEADDESK*

You are so sweet hon. Your comment makes me feel infinitely better. I agree with what you said about the boys and I share how you feel about them too. It's so gratifying to know I'm not alone on this because lately I just read too many negative comments about how "greedy" the boys are. I'm not saying they are infallible, but I think they are decent people, not someone who only sees the color of money like they are made out to be.

It's sad to me because this user is well known in the fandom, she's not only an editor at an online magazine (this I just found out), I think she's also a part of popular J2 fanfiction writing team. What she says has a large impact and that's why I was so annoyed with what she said.

Once again, thank you for sharing your opinion with me on this *squishes you back*

In this whole "drama", I actually don't mind arguing my position, nor do I care about leaving her journal. But I was annoyed when I found out she's an online magazine editor. As a (part time?) media reporter, I'm vexed at her biased position over this issue, and I think she unfairly put the boys in a bad light for her readers.

I would not publicly name this user, but a couple of people here knew right away who it is. So I guess her reputation does proceed her more than I thought, except I'm not exactly sure in what light.

Hee. First, Jamie Bamber! *Points to icon* He was Lee "Apollo" Adama on Battlestar Galactica. Whoo, LOUK! Do you like it? I confess I haven't seen it because my satellite doesn't have BBC America. I listed Jamie as #2 on my previous rather frivolous hunk post. ;p

I agree with you it's quite amazing how much people are willing to pay for certain things. Yet I'm not the one who can cast the stone. I did pay for a Gold Pass and Photo Ops at the recent SF Con. To some of my RL friends that was extraordinary and a waste of money. But who's to say the happiness I received from my expenditure was anything less than the happiness others get from buying clothes, shoes, jewelry, vacation, or some fancy dinners? It's all a matter of one's preference and ability.

Why should Jensen or anyone provide his talents for free? I don't think that's a fair demand. It's easy for us to say we deserve it or that we would if the roles were reversed, but really...would we?

I love the original L&O too, especially the earlier seasons. Truth be told, when I first found out Jamie was going to be in LOUK, and it was a direct adaptation of the original American version, I was very very skeptical. I thought L&O franchise has been around for far too long, and I'm not too impressed with its American spin-offs either.

That being said, I've read quite a few articles on LOUK to make me think I should find time for LOUK. Jamie Bamber aside (although it would be so nice to hear him speak in his native accent for a change), I especially interested in the comparison between the American vs. British cultural and/or system.

Haha! I didn't know you are a rugby fan. Here's a bit of trivia: Jamie Bamber was the Captain of his high school's (Saint Paul) Rugby team. He actually entertained the thoughts of playing professional rugby at one time. ;p

For someone who likes an actor for his work, that is such a rotten, groundless thing to say about him. :( And totally, totally wrong. When Jared and wifey's tickets were auctioned and didn't give the wanted result (aka the price stuck on the opening bid because no one bid higher), is that a bad thing for them? Maybe, but they couldn't say anything about it. After all it's auction, for pete's sake! No one forces anyone to bid and I don't care if the ticket price is too high or too low. It's your money and it's up to you how you want to burn it.

And to call Jensen greedy? *knocks on wood* Has he ever demanded that his payment for Supernatural being raised? Not that I know of. She better stay away from me. Oh, btw, I know who you are talking about, too, and you said to someone here that she is quite a name with her fics and that she can influence others with her opinions. I'll say maybe to the latter but imho she's not that good a writer. Not a guaranteed name anyway. :P

It's good that you stay away from her. Only commenting to something when it's the opposite of her opinion, heh? Some friend she is. (((you)))

Exactly. With auction, nobody can really control the outcome on how much someone is willing to pay. In this case, neither Jensen and Jason nor Jared had anything to do with how high or low their respective prices ended up. To say Jensen and Jason shouldn't allow their concert tickets go to auction is absurd. Why not? There were only small amount of seating available, auctioning them was quite a logical way to go about this in my opinion. And I just don't see why this particular auction in comparison to others was so distasteful to some people.

...but imho she's not that good a writer.

Ha! I guess you do know who I'm talking about then. I know she's quite prolific, but truth be told, I tried to read a few, I wasn't able to finish any of them, I never got past the first couple of chapters. On the other hand, I've enjoyed one or two stories from her writing partner alone in the past. Oh well...

Thank you. I just read a very lovely report about the Jamming Session where it was obvious to Jensen and Jason, the auction outcome was complete unexpected, and they were very appreciative of fans enthusiasm.

I have to admit that I don't know who you are talking about, but I am sorry you had to go through it.

I've always been under the impression that the stars have representatives that set their fees for cons (didn't one of the BSG actors mention Erin Gray being their representative?). I was also under the impression that the auction thing was set up by Creation, and some of the money was going to charity. It never entered my mind that JA or JM had anything to do with it, and I also read the comment that they were shocked by how much people were willing to pay. Of course, I have to admit to being shocked as well, but if someone is willing to pay it, it's their business and no one else's.

Speaking of cons, did you see who is coming to D*C this year (well, as of now, anyways)? Misha Collins!

The identity of this person isn't really important. I just have an issue with her/their logic behind the accusation. I assume she/they know that the actors have their agents negotiating the fees and contracts. But I guess the sentiment is since the agents represent the actors, whatever these agents ask is what the stars want too. That much I don't disagree.

When Creation Entertainment first announced the event and when the Jam Session first when up for auction, there was no indication any of the proceeds were going to charity. I guess the announcement went up at either the conclusion of the auction or towards the end. In my opinion, it made sense because I'm pretty sure the outcome of the auction surprised many people, the stars themselves included. I can totally see the scenario where Jensen was reasonably skeptical about people's willingness of paying to see him sing in the beginning, but when the price skyrocketed, he decided portions of the proceeds should go to charity. The girl and some people visited her journal criticized Jensen, Jason, and Creation for announcing the charity donation after fact and didn't specifically name the charity they are donating to. All in all, I find them to be very judgmental.

Yeah, I saw the news Misha is going to Dragon*Con this year. I'm quite amused. Then again, if I can be honest, I'm not exactly clear on how I feel about his antics during panels. I'll just say that given my temperament, I'm not exactly comfortable with his humor sometimes.

But hey, have you heard the news regarding to Jamie this morning? I'm so excited I could burst!

Oops, sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I wanted to know who you were talking about--I probably wouldn't know who it was, anyways. I just feel badly that you had to deal with something like that.

Judgmental is a good word--I've read comments in the past that have seemed like that as well. From what I've read, both Jason and Jensen seemed pretty shocked at the prices. I just don't think they expected to get that kind of money.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that Jamie will be on my screen again!!!mick

LOL you're far better off away from people like that. How nice it must be to snap-judge people who don't do an event as a charity fundraiser. If that person has an issue, perhaps taking it up with the guys who run the cons and their crazy ticket prices would be more appropriate? This was a "what the market would bear" situation, and as in other instances, the crazy SPN fan market will bear way more than I can bear, but that's not on Jensen or Jason at all. Sounds like Miss Crankypants wanted to have a ticket and can't get past being shut out. I think Jensen's evaluation of his worth as a singer is pretty accurately on the lower end - but like most people, he enjoys singing anyway and he and Jason are old friends, and he took the risk of coming off as a dork with a limited number of witnesses. ;D Personally, I would have been very forgiving and happy to share the moment, but for that amount, I'd want him to be doing something else that I know he wouldn't agree to.

Thank you so much dear. Yes I do have an issue with "holier than thou" judgmental people. I don't like it when they disparage the stars and/or other fans for flimsy reasons that can't hold up to the light.

One thing I have to make it clear in her defense is that one time, according to her, she did take it up with Creation Entertainment and complained about the overly high starting bid for their Gold Passes. She claimed Creation took her suggestion and lowered the starting bid and resulted in nabbing $600 less.

But in my opinion, $100 starting bid for the Jam Session isn't that high compared to the cost of other tickets. If I remember correctly, the starting bid for the tickets of sitting with Jared and Genevieve at BBB in SF Con was $250.

Yes, fans went a "little" crazy in wanting to attend this Jam Session. But I can't blame them for appreciating Jensen and Jason's singing either. And, if that's what they are willing to pay, judging by a couple of reports I've read, Jensen and Jason earned every penny with their respective talents. I see no wrong or shame in that. I heard Jensen and Jason extended the originally planned 45 minute session to 70 minutes, and Jensen was saying he would love to continue but he had to catch a plane back to Vancouver.

Yeah, starting bids are a legit issue, as is the very questionable "row AA for auction" in front of supposed 'front row' seats, and they claimed a typo made it seem like $1200 starting bids. Creation has plenty of its own issues without suspecting Jensen/Jason of greed. I'd LOVE them to do charity events (like Lightspeed) rather than Creation cons, but until they do, this is the way of the world.

Actually speaking of starting bids, the one for Jensen and Jason's Jam Session is among the lowest I've ever seen at Creation Auctions. $100 is relatively nothing compared to other starting bids. Even a 30 minute Q&A session with non-main SPN cast members I've seen started over $200. I have no concrete proof, but I suspect the somewhat lower start here may be due to Jensen and Jason's request.

I'd love to see Jensen do a charity concert too, but given he is not a professional singer, I highly doubt that will happen. I don't think Jensen will feel comfortable singing in front of a large crowd any time soon. And I don't think picking up a guitar and singing in front of strangers can be easy for Jensen. I suspect besides psyching himself up for it, he has to have done a lot of preparation work for it too. Seeing he's quite a bit of a perfectionist, I can easily imagine him put in a lot of time to rehearse beforehand. I can't even be sure he would give another Jam Session in the future although I do wish that it would happen.

I'm so glad it went well. I'm sure the small intimate and encouraging audience helped a lot too. I put my hands together and "pray" there will be another time. Having said that, I don't want it ever interfere with his day job either. Because as lovely as he sings, I think he's incredible in front of a camera. ;)

I think your opinion was very maturely and thoughtfully stated. Several of my coworkers are in the midst of a wank war on the office intranet right now. I wish they could state their opinons this well.

...you know what - i share your pain (and frustration) as i've had similar convos with others. *head desks over and over*ITA ABOUT THE COST BEING DRIVEN BY OVERZEALOUS FANS BECAUSE IT'S TRUFAX. PERIOD.

I completely missed this, and I don't expect you to comment because I know you posted it some time ago, I wanted to add my "two cents."

Damn! You did such a good job! I can't imagine standing up against all that like you did. But I completely agree with you. I voted, and I voted, and I voted...but I did it with the same reasoning you did: because I wanted to and they deserved it. :)

If Jensen decided to offer a few fans his singing talents, it is a whole new "ball of wax" right? And how dare anyone demand more of those guys than they are already giving? My youngest son just told me that Charlie Sheen (yes, the guy in rehab with half-ass acting skills), makes 2.5 million per episode, so I'm thinking Jensen and Jared are already doing their part!!!!!!

Hey sweetie - I just saw your post about the jam session and I have to say, I was wondering when the bickering would start over the cost and the fact that it went so high. I was unable to get a ticket through the auction cause I was outbid at the last 10 seconds. The jam session was my main reason for buying a plane ticket from Virginia, a Gold ticket, and a hotel room for 4 nights in LA. You can imagine how disappointed I was when I was knocked out, and I really didn't think it would go as high as it did. Of course I would have still had a great time, but my hopes were dashed for the moment.

When I got to the hotel on Thursday night my friends were already in line holding a spot for me to buy one of the remaining 10 tickets, at the asking price of $1551.99. Yes that's an exorbitant amount to pay for a 45 minute jam session, but look at who this we're talking about ....Jensen Ackles....doing something he has never done before, only because his fans had been begging him for years to do it. He had no control over the bidding, and was shocked at how high the price went up to. I know for a fact that he was truly humbled by it; I could see it on his face when he talked about it.

I am not rich, nor do I have $1552 dollars lying around, but this was an experience I wanted to have and checked it off my bucket list...my credit card is screaming now but hey, it will get over it!

I'm curious to know who this person was who ranted over the auction. Can you please p.m. me and let me know cause I'd like to read her journal and see what was said.