Sorry for another thread just one last thing I wanted to ask. One thing I have noticed is that on TV generally (at least the TV I used to watch) there are quite a lot of camp hairdressers and male flight attendants and female gym teachers who are meant to be homosexual and stuff.

However I was just wondering what experience people had in the real World with jobs done by gay men and women. Now I know it doesn't really matter and that we are all people and the same and bla bla bla but I was just curious.

I know a guy who is gay and works for an airline so I guess that is no suprise. My cousin is gay and a fashion designer. Again no suprise! But my old roommate was gay and is a haematologist I think which I guess is quite common or more common now. I heard he actually works for another gay senior medical guy and they kinda work with other gay guys in a kinda team or something but I don't know if that's true!

But I have also met guys who were gay doing totally different things like a gay Ice Hockey referee in Canada. And a gay film music editor and electronic musician.

Anyway yes I know it doesn't really matter and we are all human beings etc. but I was just curious. Please delete if inappropriate.

Quoting Ps762 (Thread starter):However I was just wondering what experience people had in the real World with jobs done by gay men and women. Now I know it doesn't really matter and that we are all people and the same and bla bla bla but I was just curious.

I work in show biz, so no surprise about me and many of my friends.

Non-stereotypically, I've met 'em just about everywhere. I once dallied with a construction worker the evening before he was off to Antarctica for six months for the winter season, he's still a good mate.

Another, also a construction worker, preferred to take jobs in remote, rough and unlikely places. He'd worked a winter season in Antarctica, too, and then went to (tropical but rough-as-guts) Bougainville Island.

I've spent a fair amount of time in outback Australia and they pop up everywhere there as well - miners (again), construction, cattle station hands, medical, defence, detention officers, a cop or two.

Many thanks for the info. I think I leant a lot. I had a look at your page and it says you were nominated for an Oscar? Wow. I will try to check out that movie.

Anyway speaking of gay guys in showbusiness one of my favourite recent movies was 2012 and while it was an action film it was also a film about family a lot and stuff. And the director and co-writer Roland Emmerich is gay I think. I often wondered why a gay guy would make a film with so much heart (I thought) basically about a way of life he would never really have a part in. I thought it was really quite cool.

And online in chatrooms and stuff gay guys seem like pretty much the only guys who can have a normal conversation these days (at least in the chatrooms I end up in!).

I have known and know of several GLTB's as Lawyers, paralegals and related careers, one man I knew had a long career as a furniture salesperson and one lesbian who grew up on my street worked for years as a telephone repair person. Of course via the media we know of gay faith ministers, gay politicians, gay business executives and teachers.

Many thanks for the reply. That is interesting to learn of the different stuff.

As an aside when I was talking to this ice hockey referee he said sometimes he was attracted to these macho hockey players (he was seriously into the sport too though and the passion for the game was what drove his refereeing). I said "have you ever said so to them" and he was like "hell no!". I thought that was quite funny.

I am not saying this to be rude or mean or anything, just making a statement: gays have had non-stereotypical jobs for centuries. The difference is, with the advent of television and internet and mass communication, it has become more common and more accepted to think of LGBT people as "normal" and having "normal" jobs instead of like back in the day when they were relegated to either a life of quiet desparation hating their wife and kids or living a bachelor life with their "special friend".

Engineers, managers, Senators, astronauts, professional athletes, lifeguards, bridal shop owners (a lesbian friend of mine), oil rig equipment leasing and maintenance (a gay friend of mine is one third owner of one)..... basically any business or job that is out there.

Tugg

I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner

I knew an Australian gay airline captain. He made no secret out of the fact that he was gay, but he was anything but camp (in fact with his grey crew cut and being somewhere around 6.5 ft tall, he looked like a former American football quarterback, who was now working as a coach). He liked to take the micky though from (mainly straight men), who didn´t like gays.
I never had a problem with him and he was always good fun in the pub, who knew a lot of off colour jokes. He was aldso well liked by the female cabin crew.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 4):I said "have you ever said so to them" and he was like "hell no!". I thought that was quite funny.

That's very common. Part of the issue is that there isn't very much recorded history of gay men until about fifty years ago. People just didn't write about it.

Back in the early 1800's, Sydney (Australia) was a convict colony and was called "the Sodom of the South Seas" - but we only know that because of people talking about it in disgusted terms.

There are obviously some records of homosexual behaviour - prisoners sentenced and in one case hanged - but there is no mention of any homosexual behaviour in any Australian novel (and then only a throwaway hint) until 1958.

People were no different then but to be open about it meant you'd lose your job, especially in the military, and many of your friends. The famous 19th century explorer, Sir Richard Burton, only got married because he was "advised to" by his commanding officer.

Lawrence of Arabia had a life-long history of relationships with men, including an affair with a young Arab man (they lived together) and later, being beaten to orgasm by men. He left a record of it which is embarrassing to many historians, so they deny it - it doesn't mean what he said. Because he was a great general he couldn't have been gay, they claim, whereas critics of him say that if he was gay, he couldn't have been a great general.

Once you start putting together the dribs and drabs of history, there are a lot of surprises.

It is common, in pop culture, to emphasize more flamboyant behavior in stereotypical career areas for gays - no surprise, when you recall that the whole point of the show is to generate controversy and interest, and thus, to sell advertising.

But be real. Let's say E Television produced a show "Gay Petroleum Engineers" about a degreed PE going through the wild and wacky day of reservoir engineering, production enhancement, maybe process design for increased yield. How would gayness ever come into play there?

It is not as if there have not been a substantial proportion of gay folks in pretty much all areas of work; we're just (collectively) more accepting of the simple (and not particularly controversial) reality of homosexuality.

Now, I think you can thank those in the "traditional" gay vocations (floral designer, hairdresser, male flight attendant, you name it) for having the guts to stick their toes into the pond, so to speak, breaking the ice for greater long-term acceptance.

My mom owned a very good flower shop for many years, and from that I learned that good flower shops almost always had gay male designers. Just worked out that way. The best suppliers (wholesale greenhouses and the like) seemed to be, as well. Wasn't a good thing or a bad thing, it was just ... how it was. I was the only straight guy in the shop when I worked there, and it was almost funny how the other guys tried to convince me I was gay - perhaps because I was not acting like a jerk? This was at the very beginning of the spread of AIDS, and watching good people whom we loved taken by the disease made it very difficult to hear what were then fairly common jokes about AIDS.

More than you asked for, but it is Christmas and Christmas was a pretty big deal around The Flower Shop, and I was reminiscing about lost loved ones.

Still hard for me to grasp why anyone would feel threatened by something so irrelevant as whether someone was gay or straight.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 12):Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 10):
He liked to take the micky though from (mainly straight men), who didn´t like gays.

English translation?

This is actually Irish slang (Remember, I used to live in Ireland for several years and native English speakers often tell me that I still have a slight Irish accent). It means taking the p#ss, making fun of in a practical way, getting them embarrassed in public, pulling their leg.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 17):On the subject of non-stereotypical gay workers, which sport will be the first to have openly gay players? I think either hockey or American football. I think basketball would be last.

I'm assuming you mean in America? There are already several out LGBT men and women sports players all over the world, including a female American basketball Olympian (among several others I'm sure. I just did a quick google).

Quoting panam330 (Reply 19):There are already several out LGBT men and women sports players all over the world, including a female American basketball Olympian

Yes. In The States it is not as accepted as in Europe. I think the most fameous one would be Martina Navratalova. I think there are some female golfers as well. But, gay men in professional sports? Just like gay male singers: not popular. How many hits have Clay Aiken and Ricky Martin and Lance Bass had since they came out?

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):Just like gay male singers: not popular. How many hits have Clay Aiken and Ricky Martin and Lance Bass had since they came out?

Male singers of note recently: Frank Ocean, Edward Droste of Grizzly Bear, Rostam Batmanglij of Vampire Weekend, Sam Sparro, Mika, Jake Shears of the Scissor Sisters, Jonsi of Sigur Ros, Rufus Wainwright, Adam Lambert, and Elton John are all out, and quite relevant in today's music scene - just from a quick google. I'm sure there are dozens more we know about, and even more that choose to keep quiet.

Gay people are, after all, just people. Some people are out, but not in-your-face about it. I don't go flaunting it to people, and most wouldn't know I am without my telling them. It's nobody's business but those who I choose to let know.

You could say the same about many of their straight contemporaries. A lot of artists don't have a lot of staying power. I can think of a lot of bands/artists that were once chart toppers, but now they would be a stumper on the "dead or alive" game.

The Village People were very popular and pretty much everyone knew they were Gay. When I was kid my parents had some village people records in their collection and my dad once told me "they are pretty good for a bunch of queers" I didn't even know what that meant back then.

Quoting falstaff (Reply 23):You could say the same about many of their straight contemporaries.

But once a man comes out as gay is when his career takes a dive. Straight men take a dive either because they are flash-in-the-pan or their follow-up album is not what the public expected. There is a huge difference, from what I have noticed.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 21):How many hits have Clay Aiken and Ricky Martin and Lance Bass had since they came out?

How many hits did they have in the YEARS prior to their coming out? For the record, Lance Bass has never worked as a solo artist. And let's be real...Clay Aiken?? One hit wonder to begin with, who got a ton of attention because he was obviously gay. People quickly forgot about him once there was no point in gossiping about it.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25): But, not as accepted in the United States as in Europe.

Europe is a big place. As is the United States. Such a broad stroke is unwise.

Anyway, I worked as a chemist for several years. Chances are you have a product in your house that if its datecode falls within a certain range, I signed off on it, personally.
Now I am in the medical field.

Not to go completely off topic but regarding the gay musicians (the famous ones) I agree it's kinda hard to market a guy to teenage girls or even girls in their twenties when he is gay! (or out of whatever). But to me Eltn John has written some great tunes and I really liked George Michael's album "Older" (which I think was released after he came out). Plus his single "outside" about being arrested I thought was not just funny bur also a really nice pop tune!

I think good music sells whatever which is why maybe so many "minorities" or people less accepted by society or whatever have ended up selling music for a living!

Quoting luckyone (Reply 26):who got a ton of attention because he was obviously gay. People quickly forgot about him once there was no point in gossiping about it.

Which is probably why Tom Cruise and John Travolta never came out: it would devistate their careers!

No, Lance Bass never had a solo career. Now, he is a two-bit host on a dark corner of sattelite radio and the main reason the best boy band of the 1990s is never getting back together.

He was never my favorite anyway.

There are plenty of gay male singers and actors who are really very good but can't get ahead because they are out. Much like the many gay politicians who can not be elected to federal office because they are out. It is not as accepted in USA as it is in Europe or Canada.

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):But once a man comes out as gay is when his career takes a dive. Straight men take a dive either because they are flash-in-the-pan or their follow-up album is not what the public expected.

And did you happen to notice the nice sized list I posted of the ones that are doing just fine? Just because they're not top 40 doesn't mean that they're not popular. Take a look at some of the bands on the iTunes top downloads. Lots of LGBT talent that aren't one hit wonders - again, many I've already illustrated to disprove your statement.

Quoting Ps762 (Reply 27):Not to go completely off topic but regarding the gay musicians (the famous ones) I agree it's kinda hard to market a guy to teenage girls or even girls in their twenties when he is gay! (or out of whatever). But to me Eltn John has written some great tunes and I really liked George Michael's album "Older" (which I think was released after he came out). Plus his single "outside" about being arrested I thought was not just funny bur also a really nice pop tune!

I think good music sells whatever which is why maybe so many "minorities" or people less accepted by society or whatever have ended up selling music for a living!

You are right, I think the key thing is always the audience you are selling to. Just like when a group comes out with that album that "really expresses what we really are!" that tanks completely because it is not what the fans thought of for the group (or liked personally) or the artist that crosses over to another genre and bombs. The has to be an audience and if straight Christian women are your audience or tweeny boppers and you come out as gay or Country then you will have a problem and you can not lay it totally on your audience. You have to either live up to their expectation or be ready to craft a new audience. And a good artist will get a new audience while a mediocre one will struggle or fail.

Tugg

I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner

Many thanks for the replies. On the gay music thing I recently ordered a CD by a guy I once kinda worked with. I paid like 40 dollars for it too as it is kinda not made any more I think. But it sounded really good. Back when I knew him I had no idea he was making really good music which sounds like Depeche Mode but different. I just thought him and a friend had a little electropop group to waste time messing around with their bosses synths. Plus I had no idea he was gay, he seem more like a scary New Yorker straight guy to me (for lack of a better term sorry).

Let's see...
I am gay and I work in logistics and production planning for a big chemical company.
My boyfriend is a psychotherapist
My best friends work as male nurses, office employees, press office of a tv channel, purser for LH, sales assistant in a shop, strategic consultant in a finance company, IT engineer, medical doctor and many more.
So, quite a mix of different professions.
Sometimes u get to do the job u find and u can't always follow your dreams or aspirations.
This is true regardless if you're gay or straight

Many thanks for the replies. Interesting to read. Makes me really think I need a job!

Quoting steman (Reply 34):Sometimes u get to do the job u find and u can't always follow your dreams or aspirations.
This is true regardless if you're gay or straight

I think this is very true. I think on TV you normally only see programs about the people who "follow their dreams" etc. and achieve great success. But for most of us (me at least) we just kinda meander through doing what we can!

I'm a microbiologist and my boyfriend is a virologist. Unfortunately, we don't really have any other proper-job gays in our groups of friends - between all of them, they are either unemployed or work in a low end retail job. Some of them really do shatter the idea that all homosexuals are intelligent... The addage is obviously untrue, but it is one of the few positive assumptions people could take from TV/pop culture about the community.

Quoting panam330 (Reply 29):And did you happen to notice the nice sized list I posted of the ones that are doing just fine

Right. Adam Lambert is not that popular and Elton John... well... let's face it: we all knew even before he officially came out. Not all of us care about iTunes. I don't subscribe to it. I listen to sattelite radio and have never heard of any of the others. Save one song by Scissor Sisters. I could tell just by listening that he is.

My point still stands: on terrestrial radio and pop charts, gay male artists are not popular after they come out.

I dont know what it is exactly about this thread I find demeaning. I know youre actually being supportive but gay people can hold any job they set their mind to. Is it actually a shocker they can be successful when so many closed minded people made it difficult for them to get far in their career?

As time goes on and stereotypes are less reinforced, it won't be.

Sincerely,
The gay airline captain

My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company

Quoting seb146 (Reply 37):My point still stands: on terrestrial radio and pop charts, gay male artists are not popular after they come out.

Several of those bands are on terrestrial radio. Whether you subscribe to it or not, iTunes can and does influence what gets put onto the radio - but let's not bring facts into this or anything. "Top 40" means less now than ever before.
And for the record - Lance Bass coming out had zero to do with the "best boy band of the 90s" not getting back together. That's absolutely ridiculous. They're not boys anymore - that's why. Nobody wants to see a bunch of 30-somethings dancing to pop music. It's like going to a concert with your parents.

I work in mineral exploration; it is not exactly a stereotypically gay job.

Some fields gay friends of mine work in: software development (a lot), marketing research, printing/publishing, urban planning, banking, insurance, education, bicycle repair... in fact, I may be an anomaly in that I don't think a single person in my group of friends is both gay and holds a stereotypically 'gay job'.

What is most surprising is not that he's gay but that it's a known fact, since our politicians are usually shy about their private life, and we don't care about it either. So there are probably many gay politicians, not in the closet or anything, but it's just not commonly known. And even in the most backwards part of the country it would be foolish for a political opponent to try to use it in an election.

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams

So is the current mayor of Berlin and the current german foreign minister (plus the former mayor of Hamburg), without any significant excitement about that.

I myself am in IT development (hardware and software) and I'm a lot more interested in FPGA design than in interior design.

The whole idea of "stereotypical jobs" is stupid – it says a lot more about the idiocy of stereotypes in the first place and about the people who can't think beyond them than about actual gay people, who are simply people, as diverse as everybody else.

I'm a big ol' flaming queen....but I'm in Tech Ops at my airline (no I'm not a technician, but I am still in the department getting dirty when I can LOL). It's still quite the "straight man's world" in Tech Ops.

I seem to have a little more fun getting dirty than the straight ones though

Quoting mham001 (Reply 44):My wife and I were discussing this morning that the only two male teachers in our local school both dress in pink.

We are wondering what message that is sending to children.

Im guessing your kids couldnt care less, but Im sure they are getting the message from you that its wrong. You're more worried about the color of the teachers' shirts than your children receiving a quality caring education.

My views are mine alone and are not that of any of my fellow employees, officers, or directors at my company