If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

The nest needs to be warmer then when bees can fly. If there is a wind do not open it until it is over 60 if there is no wind and sunny you can check it over 50 without any worry. The amount of bees on the brood also will make a difference.

The more I think about this, the more I think a particular temperature is not the answer to the question. As pointed out, the number of bees on the frame, the sun, the wind, the humidity all play a part. I suppose one way to look at it is if you are not comfortable in shorts and a tee shirt, it's probably too cold in one way or another regardless of what the thermometer says.

This doesn't mean you should WEAR shorts and a tee shirt unless you feel comfortable with the bees in that state.

Since only organic farming was done from the begining of time until sixty years ago, I don't see how you can say it's "unsustainable." I would say the chemical treadmill that farmers are now on is usustainable. Sooner or later we will run out of the petroleum we use to sytheisize most of the chemicals.

&gt;and sell to the general consumer through a false sence of security.

Lack of poisons in my food is not a false sense of security. It's a question of how important I think that is.

&gt;It does not make your honey any different, does it?

It means a lot less of his bees die from pesticides and a lot less herbacides or pestacides etc. get into the hive and therefore into the honey.

How much less and how significant is probably hard to say, but it's still less.

Hi Ian....Sounds like i opened up a can of worms. You have missed the whole point. What is important to me is my bees. Does it make a difference in my honey, yes? I don't have to keep my bees in when the farmer sprays. The water that my bees drink is from a farm pond that is near by.There is no run off to contaminate the water. The ditches in the area do not get sprayed. My bees work the ground cover in ditches {birds-foot trefoil},this makes excellent honey. I would say that my honey is pretty much chemical free.

Price, quality, quantity, availablity. It is exactly the food "modern day farms" are capable of producing, and exactly the food the majority of the consumers are demanding. Because of the very "nature" of organic production, quality and quantity is some what sacerficed which in turn requires a higher price/product. The majority of in the world today consumes food directly reflective to the price. Organic producers will never break this market, which makes their produce target a neish market to the consumers who are willing to pay more for their food.
Farming in general right now is unsustainable. And if we all went back to method of farming 60 years ago millions of people would starve. Potential losses due to disease, weeds, infection would decrease if not wipe out crops yeild and animal heards across the world. The world would be so uncertian about their food stock, that the price paid to the producer would actually be resonable.
That is why in my opinion organic food will never capture the world market.

&gt;&gt;Lack of poisons in my food is not a false sense of security.

What do you mean "lack of poisons". This is exctly what I'm saying!! You give the impression that chemical is commonly present in the food supply. Seriously, you are a food (honey) producer, and that is your opinion!! I'd be more concerned about walking barefoot across your treated patio deck....,

&gt;&gt;It does not mean you do not treat you just need to treat differently.

You mean without chemical right, that is if you produce organically?

I think we as beekeepers are forgeting where our huge honey crop are coming from. FARMERS FIELDS... With out the vast acerages of flowering crops, we would not recieve the bountyful collection of honey from our bees. The farmer must control pests in the crops, to prevent insect and disease losses and to continue about normal farming functions.

&gt;Well, Price, quality, quantity, availablity. It is exactly the food "modern day farms" are capable of producing, and exactly the food the majority of the consumers are demanding.

Yes, consumers are. But there is also a market for "organic" products.

&gt;Farming in general right now is unsustainable. And if we all went back to method of farming 60 years ago millions of people would starve.

It would be difficult to prove that. We would have more farmers each producing less and it might just average out. But it is irlevant since it will never happen unless society as we know it collapses. Which probably won't happen until we run out of oil.

&gt;Potential losses due to disease, weeds, infection would decrease if not wipe out crops yeild and animal heards across the world.

Most organic farmers manage to handle disease and weeds. Infection is usually due to undue stress and crowded conditions that most organic farmers try to avoid those conditions. I never use antibiotics on my chickens and I've never had an "outbreak" of anything that killed them.

&gt;The world would be so uncertian about their food stock, that the price paid to the producer would actually be resonable.
That is why in my opinion organic food will never capture the world market.

I doubt that it will also.

&gt;What do you mean "lack of poisons". This is exctly what I'm saying!! You give the impression that chemical is commonly present in the food supply.

First, I don't buy a lot of organic food. If I could afford it I would. Second, there have been measurable amounts of chemicals in our food since DDT come into use and the rate of cancer has skyrocketed ever since. I have not looked for data recently, but I have seen data from time to time on the chemicals in our water and our food that are all from farming. I think you should be alarmed. Obviously you are not.

&gt;Seriously, you are a food (honey) producer, and that is your opinion!! I'd be more concerned about walking barefoot across your treated patio deck....,

I do not have, nor will I ever have, a treated patio deck. Thank you. Also, I don't spend my nights worrying about what I cannot change, but I would prefer to live in a world that was not so poisonous.

&gt;I think we as beekeepers are forgeting where our huge honey crop are coming from. FARMERS FIELDS... With out the vast acerages of flowering crops, we would not recieve the bountyful collection of honey from our bees.

I would bet poprivit's bees are not lacking crops of flowers to harvest honey from.

&gt;The farmer must control pests in the crops, to prevent insect and disease losses and to continue about normal farming functions.

That doesn't mean that I can't appreciate the ones who do so without poisons and chemicals.

&gt;&gt;there have been measurable amounts of chemicals in our food since DDT come into use and the rate of cancer has skyrocketed ever since.
&gt;&gt; seen data from time to time on the chemicals in our water and our food that are all from farming. I think you should be alarmed. Obviously you are not.

I would not be so quick to blame the chemicals in out water on farms. Perhaps it might be the towns and cities polluting the waters of the earth.
I could scrape up some information stats on this if you want aswell.

&gt;&gt;I would bet poprivit's bees are not lacking crops of flowers to harvest honey from.

If you are talking enough flowers to satisfy a hobby beekeeper, then yes. But to satisfy a commercial outfit, then no.

&gt;I would not be so quick to blame the chemicals in out water on farms. Perhaps it might be the towns and cities polluting the waters of the earth.
I could scrape up some information stats on this if you want aswell.

Yes there are other sources of pollution. But only on farms are they purposely spraying it into the environment by the thousands of gallons. In cities it mostly escapes when someone didn't want it to.

&gt;If you are talking enough flowers to satisfy a hobby beekeeper, then yes. But to satisfy a commercial outfit, then no.

If you have fields of crops around you, they are fields of crops. There are not less blossoms because they are "organicly" grown. There are however less of your bees dying from pesticides.

Your bees frequently fly 3 miles for food sources and in a recent study where they glued a transponder to the back of a honey bee, up to 6 miles. Are you saying no one uses any chemicals within 6 miles of your beehive, and therefore your honey is free of chemicals? I believe it may be possible to be an organic tomato grower, but it may be impossible to be an organic honey producer.

Don't want to get into all organic farming here since this is a beekeeping site. But bees left to there own will naturally be organic. (note: this depends what definition in Websters one uses)But for organics here we should be focusing on the "keeping" part not the bee as they do what is natural anyways. It is the beekeeper that needs to practice organics not the bee. I personally practice the highest standards of organics but with out the insanity attached that some like to do. This using no dopes, acids, oils, sugar dustings, garlics powders, artificial feeds, ect. Yet the bees are free to forage as they will. How can one stop this it is natural. For the most part bees don't swim in toxic dumps and such and if they do they die. Also brings up another thought honey isn't the only hive product to consider. One need clean propolis, pollen, and wax. Who wants to use propolis hive scrapings to treat a family member after 5 years of checkmite use?

Our world is so polluted that "organic" is always a matter of degree. But degree can make a difference. It's true bees occasionally fly six miles, but they spend 90 percent of their time in a two-mile radius. As a matter of degree this is the majority of the time. If organic farms surround you, your bees are going to get less exposure to pesticides and herbicides. I consider this a good thing. It's not something I have, but it would be nice.

&gt;&gt;spraying it into the environment by the thousands of gallons. In cities it mostly escapes when someone didn't want it to

In cities the chemicals are used mostly on small scale, creating the enourmous problem of over application and missuse of the product. Those thousands of gallons used on hundreds of thousands of acres are used to the very degree of effectivness, under application in alot of cases put on by the educated farmer. After all the chemicals are very expensive and missuse can cost big time. Applying double rate of 24D to a field is not feisable, where as, double rate of 24D on a lawn is not out of reach.

&gt;&gt;you have fields of crops around you, they are fields of crops. There are not less blossoms because they are "organicly" grown

What fields are being organically grown? It would take alot of tomato plants to produce the same amount of honey a canola crop would give...

Why am I so bitter about organic production? Their marketing campain targets the undereducated agricultural minded public in implying false assumptions of carelessly produced pesticide saturated food that modern day farmer, like myself, appenently produce. I take great pride in the food I grow. I specialize in the areas of crop cearels and oilseed production, cattle livestock production, and honey production, and follow the strictised of standard as my fellow neighbouring farmers do. The "organic" farmer is but a slap in my face....