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I understand only too well the fear that both you Sanderika and Cas are feeling.

I have been there and am once again feeling fear to a degree with my latest little hiccup.

I was unable to follow through on some of Gucci's advice due to fear. Lucky for me I subconciously carried out some of his advice without actually realising I was doing it and it paid off - Gucci if you are listening, thoughts on latest hiccup would be appreciated.

You have to do what you feel is right for you at this point in time. Granted fear is a very powerful emotion and can prevent us from doing things we think we should because it is basically the fear of the unknown. Once you proceed to D there is the unknown that is waiting after it.

From my perspective, any small changes in your H's attitude towards you, deserves some time to see how much further it can go. You both have shown so much patience over the last however many years and bit more time won't hurt. I would wait it out a bit longer you just never know.

Totally understand your feelings Cas and Sanderika, my H was an is my first and only love, giving up on him is gonna be a very hard thing to do, so I too can see why you feel the way you do and with both H's being so positive about things, you could just say well Ive waited this long a bit longer wont hurt, but maybe you both need to set a time when enough is enough and D is immenant and you will just have to have a wonderful second wedding if you make it back together, because to be honest wouldnt you like to see them make that sort of commitment to start again! Just getting back together might not be enough?

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts sanderika, Oz, Rabbit and Dia. I appreciate Gucci's words because they have given me plenty to think about.

I have to clarify 2 things....We have been separated 2 years and it was a few months after H left that I discovered the A. I did say I was jealous of H spending time with ow. I didn't say anything else about her. I agree with Gucci, H is as bad as ow. The only difference is that H has had points in the emotional love bank due to all the years prior to the A. OW is an employee who started working for us when I was sick.

These posts also came at a time when I am feeling emotionally overwhelmed. I seem to go ok with the DB and then a hit a snag and I let my hard work go down the drain. That happened tonight when I talked to H. He said he sensed that we were getting closer and he had to tell me that a reconciliation wasn't going to happen ever, that he wanted to be friends but he would never get back with me. It just wouldn't work. He said he would be living with OW if it wasn't for the kids. He said I needed to move on and get a new person in my life.

He finished by saying he was happy with the way our friendship had progressed but there was no use thinking of anything further cos it wasn't going to happen. H is a black and white person. he would find it hard to tell people he made a mistake in leaving. I believe him when he says he's not coming back.

I am wasting my life here. Bottom line is that H wasn't true in good times and in bad but I do love him. I am in utter confusion!!

((Cas)) If they are always going to be in your lives how do you detach completely, its so difficult, we know Gucci is right but how do we get to that point? The truth is we can't do closer/nice/friendly without getting caught up in pursuing as far as our H's are concerned they want something that actually is practically impossible.

We just need them to be civil to move on, but they want their "cake" as they dont like being seen to be unfriendly, it ruins their street cred! I suppose once you go through a time of civility you can then think about falling in love again with maybe some one new.

My personal opinion is that I don't believe your WS is going to wonder or think about coming back or make a decision on the OW until he thinks you are interested in another man.

That is why I think that social intereaction with the opposite sex is so important. It is important for him to see and important for your moving on and getting out of this hope and fear trap that you seem to be in. I have found that women seem to underestimate the power of competition. Even though you both seem to be in competition with the OW, you can't seem to see that it could very well get your WS off the fence or get you off the fence. It SHOWS that you are moving on.

You don't have to treat your WS much differently than you are now. Just some minor changes. There is nothing wrong with having a good relationship with an ex.

Sanderika. Has it ever occured to you that your WS feels the same way about you that you do about your male friend? Did you ever wonder if your male friend is hoping that if he keeps being your friend that you will fall in love with him? You sound like you have a good relationship with your male friend. What if he wonders if when you are nice to him if you are falling in love with him? What if he has people tellng him to hang in there and that you are giving him signs of falling in love when you are nice to him? What if he is thinking the same things about you that you are about your WS?

Do you see why being friends COULD be misleading? If you really want to be a friend to your WS, then it shouldn't change when you have found someone else in your life.

My take is that after all this time if you haven't proven to your WS how much you love him and what a great woman you are then what will it take? If he won't chase you and start to see that you are his true love when you change course, then he probably isn't coming back no matter what. IF he really loves you then he won't be able to let you go without HIM making an effort at some point.

What if he did come back now? How are you going to trust him that it won't happen again? What if he comes back to you and then says he is going to be friends with the OW? How are you going to have the leverage to not tolerate that if you don't have it now?

Ultimatums are not what I am talking about here. It is a quiet dignity, a quiet new found self confidence and yet common courtesy that you display. Just a big enough change to allow him to WONDER if you still are IN love with him and IF there is someone else. I am sorry that it takes them feeling you have let go before they may make an effort to come back. I am sorry that there are no guarantees. There just isn't any guarantees. The guarantee is that there ARE millions of men out there that WILL treat you as if you are in a mutual love relationship and probably make you ask yourself why you wasted so much time on your WS and even get you to ask yourself what you ever saw in a man that hurt you so deeply. You would probably be saying to yourself. NEVER AGAIN will I try to get a person back that want to leave. At least that seems to be a common theme once you are emotionally dead to the relationship. The key then would be to advance toward that goal.

So tonight, I have had several texts from H. So he's told me earlier that I shouldn't hope for any reconciliation cos it's not going to happen but that said he's still in contact. So reading into Deep's comment he is still 'looking after' his possession-me. He said, "Go out and get somebody else" but in the next sentence says "hopefully we can remain friends as we have been up until now." Have I interpreted correctly.... I don't want you as a partner but I'll keep a close eye on you anyway.

H told me today that he cared for me. I know he does but it's not enough. I just need the courage to take the steps Gucci suggests.

H made comment that he knows that I am always out but obviously he's not concerned because he knows it is with my female friends. I'm not sure how to make that more mysterious as I have no unattached male friends.

I have an unattached male friend from interstate and I can so relate to what Gucci has said to sanderika. I never call him. I don't have to because he calls me all the time. We're friends. I'm nice to him but that's it.

I need to read and digest this info for a while and see what action to take.

I just had one thought. You said that you knew that your h would come back if you proceeded with divorce but that you didn't want him to come back this way and you wanted him to do it of his own accord. While I totally understand this, I ask you would you rather be right or happy? If him coming home would make you happy and pull you out of this holding pattern then why do you not do it? At the moment why would your h come home when he has the best of both worlds friendship with you and ow. Most people do not move unless they are forced into some kind of crisis. Why would he make a move if he is comfortable where he is at the moment? My question to you is what is your goal and what means can you use to take you there? You deserve happiness.

(((Cas))) sorry for the hijack there. I just wanted to point out that when your h left was his intention not to have any relationship with you. I'm assuming as most of the WAS's here seem that way. You got him to be friends and being friends is a rung on the ladder. Of course he will say he doesn't want anymore at the moment because the next step would take him out of his comfort zone at the moment and cause him to face some issues in his life. It is all about moving to the next step and using the means at your disposal to get there. I would have a think about that. I know what your h said was discouraging but don't let it discourage you from your goal if that is what you still want.

_________________________
M- May 2006D - Aug 2010Now travelling the world

Like Cas, I too am deep in thought over this latest turn in conversation. I am gathering my thoughts and will post here in more detail.

One thing I want to say is my H and I were definitely not friends of any sort when this sitch started. He hated me and the ground I walked on. I was not too impressed with him either. It has been since about 4 months post-bomb that H and I started to rekindle our friendship it has grown stronger with time at a fairly steady pace.

Cas, How has the friendship road been travelled for you?

I think we should dissect this topic in baby steps or we will all get buried in information, AGREE?

I am sorry Cas to hijack your thread on this....it is a topic we both need help with. I hope you don't mind.

I do not actually know if my H would come back if I go ahead with the D. I am not sure I said that he would. If he would it would be easy and done a long time ago.

I want to be right and happy at the same time.

I agree with the nature of the holding pattern and it's unfairness. I am not the one in a MLC. I want to give my H as much time as he needs to come out of this. I do see progress. I am just wondering if he ever will at this point. My H and marriage are very precious to me, as everyone's is on this BB.

I saw my H through cancer and it was a long, trying and tiring road. I have given the MLC he is in as a sickness that needs time and patience and love and committment. Am I really wrong??I love this man with all my heart, he is the love of my life.

I know thiere is an answer to this like most problems in life.

I am seeking the answers just as much now as I was over 4 years ago.

Thanks you Julia, I appreciate your wisdom. I understand your sitch and realize where you have been as well.