Re: improved silence

Originally Posted by AetherMcLoud

I think we already agreed that calling Deep Freeze conditional is a-ok. And gaymer77 pretty much pwned you on your definition of a controlled stun :P.

*snip*

The same is true for deep freeze: The condition is [target counts as frozen]. That may be achieved through icy fingers I think it is called (where slowed targets count as frozen to you), or frost nova, or frost armor procs or whatever. While you cannot control frost armor procs, you CAN control frost novas and icy fingers. And then you can control the stun.

I was mainly debating Deep Freeze being termed as a controlled stun, a conditional stun is much better and I fully accept that.

However, on the second part I have quoted, I just wanted to show that it is not always possible to cast Deep Freeze. You cannot control Fingers of Frost, it is a random proc, and while you can control Frost Nova, it requires a GCD in order to freeze them before you can stun them.

You know as well as I do that a GCD is plenty of time to hit shapeshift/dispel/blessing of freedom/cloak of shadows/escape artist/anti-magic shell/blink, all of which would break the Frost Nova before you can stun them (except AMS which would just stop the stun from being applied, as would IBF).

And against good players, it happens a lot more than you would think.

I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

Re: improved silence

Originally Posted by nosoup4crr

Sure. I'd be in favor of an extra ability which stuns, as well. I just thought it'd be more reasonable not to give the priest the ability to fear/silence/stun for 20 seconds of non-DR control. I figured the stun effect and silence effect could be separate debuffs. This way, it just makes silence usable against the rogue who's rocking our world. But, i'll take yours if they'll let me have it, haha.

Yeah, 20 seconds of stuns would be way OP. If you also gave us more survivability and higher damage output we'd be almost like a rogue. Way too OP.

Re: improved silence

@ Abandon
Mages Deep frezze is a controlled stun, here's why. mages can proc frost novas effect as mentioned but theres a few other things mages got in their arsenal,

Ice barrier, the mage knows that if hes being attacked and pop IB the target will get frosted, thus he just wait for it to break and cast Deep frezze = controlled stun

Water elemental, the mage pop water elemental use the frost nova + Deep frezze = controlled stun AT RANGE

Now tell me how its not a controlled stun?
is it because IB and Water elemental has CD?
or that all other things are random proccs?
not hard to get someone frosted with procs and abilites from IB, water element, Frost nova, Fingers of frost, frostbite and ice armor

Re: improved silence

We already settled this. It is a conditional stun.

I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

Re: improved silence

Re: improved silence

But a discipline spell so it wouldn't break shadowform...

I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

Re: improved silence

Even though I have no disrespect for your vocabulary, your rationality, or your knowledge of logical fallacies, I was referring more to your lack of social grace than anything else.

Not that there's anything wrong with being an inflammatory turd, of course. Just that it tends to cause tempers to flare.

I know kinda what you meant, but any reputation is better than no reputation

And if I know I am right, because logic tells me so, why should I back down from argumenting?

And besides I always try to not attack the poster when I argument, but I will viciously attack logical errors, wishy-washy arguments, wrong causalities and what-have-you.
In a discussion he who has the best devised / most compelling arguments, wins. Therefore it is the only logical conclusion to attack weaknesses in the "opponents" defense. And most of the time that weakness is a wrong causality, a logical fallacy, such a thing.

If that is being called "lack of social grace" then so be it.

As long as I refrain from personal attacks (which I do 99% of the time, nobody's perfect) I recon all is fair in love, war and discussion. :P

It's just a thing I have going, a strange sense of humor (I think www.xkcd.org is the funniest and most witty comic ever), developing software as a job, journalism/argumentation (and learning japanese) as a hobby. I'm not a nerd. I'm a specialist. :P

I do not force anyone to read my posts (sometimes ramblings), nor do I force them to argument with me - but if they do join in, like Abandon here did, I always enjoy having a good (while sometimes furious ) discussion where arguments fly high. Good thing is such discussions regularly happen here - if I would post with my style in the official wow boards the "OLOLOL retard" "noob l2p" and whatnot would come a'flying immediately.

Re: improved silence

Whereas both Abandon and Aether have their points they are just basically talking above each others heads.

We've talked about conditions which enable us to benefit these stun/cc abilities, the only thing that doesn't require any specific pre-condition is the paladin hammer, 90% of all the other spells require a setup of some sort which is clearly an issue that has passed you by in this entire rant fest going on here =)

Frost mage stun = requirement, frosted. -> ways to ensure the opponent is frosted *check* -> hit uberwtfpwnstun button and collect.
Controlled, as the means to setup the stun is there for you to use whenever you choose to. Yes you may have frost nova on CD tough shit don't waste it if you know you're gonna find yourself in a situation where you want to be able to stun asap, downside is that you have to rely on RNG to proc a frost, atleast they have a RNG chance to get "lucky" when they play poorly.

Re: improved silence

that doesn't require any setup and there is no unconditional love for shadowpriests from Blizz sadly ><

It could be worse, I could actually still be doing arena as shadow^^

Then why not give it a setup then, how bout this. In order to cast blackout the target must be affected by sw, but then again it wont since most likely sw will break the sap on first tick.

Then why not, can only be used while dispersed or can only be used in shadowform, naa wont work either since we only leave shadow form if we really need to heal ourself up and you can't cast spells in despersion.

You know, there not a lot to do to give Spriests a condition stun, unless, maybe. Can only be cast when within 3 seconds when fear has ended. That should at least give us some time to get away once they trinketed it.

Or why not just end this discussion since i really doubt blizzard gonna give us a new stun at all since blackout was removed