Basically I said if you want more fans, win more games and that in general terms the sense at WSI is that fans are disgusted, frustrated, angry that after five mediocre years no one is held accountable and no changes have been made to the front office or the field staff; combine that with a team that appears to not give a damn and fans are staying away in droves.

Lip

WhiteSox56

08-03-2011, 11:01 PM

Change? Nah, it will never happen.

thomas35forever

08-03-2011, 11:10 PM

Change? Nah, it will never happen.
Oh no. Don't tell me Brooks is content with his job and won't make changes either.

Noneck

08-03-2011, 11:19 PM

Anything Boyer does to make things attractive (whatever the heck that means), dont matter unless the Sox play good baseball and Boyer has no control over that.

Bump34

08-03-2011, 11:24 PM

Does he really believe that fans STAY HOME to watch the game on TV and radio??? Last time I checked its not must see TV or listen to radio...

Brian26

08-03-2011, 11:31 PM

Does he really believe that fans STAY HOME to watch the game on TV and radio??? Last time I checked its not must see TV or listen to radio...

I stopped listening to the radio after they drove Rooney out of town. The radio side continues to be a train wreck.

soxfanreggie

08-04-2011, 12:11 AM

I stopped listening to the radio after they drove Rooney out of town. The radio side continues to be a train wreck.

Rooney was so good that Farmer seemed ok. Paired with Stone, same thing, Farmer-DJ...horrible!!!

MtGrnwdSoxFan

08-04-2011, 12:15 AM

Rooney was so good that Farmer seemed ok. Paired with Stone, same thing, Farmer-DJ...horrible!!!

I don't think they're that bad. :shrug:

Yeah, it was amazing with Wills doing the pre/postgamers with Farmer and Rooney calling the game, but Farmer and DJ got their own little chemistry going on, and it's not all that bad to listen to. Granted, I have to listen on the radio as I don't get to watch many games, so I may have developed a tolerance to them, but I don't think they're a "trainwreck", as Brian puts it.

HaroMaster87

08-04-2011, 12:28 AM

yet more proof that this idiotic collection of no-minds running this organization continue to have their heads up their asses and blame the fans...

Yup...thats us out there throwing to the wrong base, jogging after balls and swinging at the first pitch regardless of the game situation...

spare me already...

The gall of these people...

Foulke You

08-04-2011, 01:06 AM

Rooney was so good that Farmer seemed ok. Paired with Stone, same thing, Farmer-DJ...horrible!!!
You are entitled to your opinion. I happen to like Farmer and DJ. They aren't the combo that Rooney/Farmer were but they are still a solid duo in the booth. However, this is getting off topic of the main thread...As Lip stated, the team is playing awful, the weather has varied between scorching and severe thunderstorms, and fans don't want to spend the dollars on a "premier" or "dynamic" priced game to watch the team get their lunch money stolen by the Yankees and Red Sox.

MtGrnwdSoxFan

08-04-2011, 01:10 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

Dear Mr. Boyer,

As a Sox fan for most of my existence and a loyal member of White Sox Interactive since February of '09, it pains, sickens, and puzzles me to see the White Sox, after seeing all the money and hype placed into them, go down the tubes like they are now. I understand you have very little, if anything, to do with the on-field product and the acquisition thereof, and thus do not hold you accountable for the awful play of this White Sox team. However, you do have a lot to do with trying to sell us this team and to convince us to spend our hard-earned entertainment dollars to see them.

Mr Boyer, for die-hards like myself, the one thing that fans NEVER want to see on the field is lackadaisical play. This current stretch has seen plenty of that, and that makes me feel that if I were to come out and purchase tickets to see lazy, uninspired play, that I would be condoning it. Even in '07, there was never the sense that the team was dogging it....they were just a makeshift team that was slapped together due to injuries, and while their quality of play wasn't good, they at least tried, and I could get behind that. This 2011 team has all the talent in the world, and for all intents and purposes should be leading this division by multiple games. However, due to the offense scuffling (some would say 'historically'), the defense playing fundamentally awful and lazy, and the pitching getting burned out because they know that no matter how good they pitch, it will likely not be enough, the Sox find themselves out 6.5 games in a critical part of the season, mired in a 5-game losing streak.

Tell me, Mr. Boyer, how can you convince me to see a team that doesn't even think enough of the fans to play 100% all-out in front of them? A lot of it has to do with the manager, Ozzie Guillen. He refuses to make changes when changes are long overdue. Case in point: Alex Rios, the multi-million dollar center fielder, was recently "benched" due to his awful, lazy play and minor leaguer Alejandro De Aza was brought up from the minors to become the starting center fielder. De Aza hit what turned out to be the game-winning home run in his first at-bat of 2011 with the Sox, and played the next game. However, in the 4 or 5 games since then, who has started in center field? None other than Alex Rios! So, was all this hubbub about De Aza starting a lie? A miscommunication? Does Ozzie just not like trusting rookies in a veteran-laden team (forgoing the fact that De Aza is, in fact, not a rookie)? Answers are appreciated, but with the Sox PR machine never giving a clear answer, fans are left angry and confused, and when they feel like that, who in their right mind would support the team? I won't even get into Dayan Viciedo, who even though he was tearing apart minor-league pitching and had some success in the majors last year, Ozzie said he "couldn't find at-bats for him" while we see Adam Dunn chasing the worst qualifying average in Major League history and providing all of the strikeouts expected of him, but none of the power.

Teams like to say that they have to play the high-contract guys so they can justify the money, but let me tell you a story about a team that didn't do that. Last year, the San Francisco Giants had two highly-overpriced contracts who weren't living up to the money. Unbelievably, the Giants management decided to bench them and call up/acquire low-priced players to start in their place. One of these contracts is a guy you may have heard of: Aaron Rowand, who was supplanted by a man named Andres Torres, a career minor-leaguer. Even more incredibly, unlike the White Sox's 'benchings', these benchings stuck, as both players (Rowand and Barry Zito,the other ridiculous contract) didn't get placed back into starting roles for the rest of the season, a season that ended with the Giants players and management hoisting the Commissioner's Trophy.

Mr. Boyer, the most attractive thing is effort. The players busting their collective humps to give their fans a show, hopefully a show that ends in victory. Even if the show ends in defeat, as long as we can say they tried, it's not a bad thing. But this team, by all barometers, is not playing to their full capabilities, not just numbers-wise, but also effort-wise. The fault doesn't just end with the players, though...the front office refuses to hold anyone accountable for the steaming pile that is the 2011 Chicago White Sox, and that makes me feel like "if the team doesn't care, why should I?"

I know I'm but just one little voice in a sea of fans, but this voice refuses to be heard, and this voice's dollars refuse to be spent, at U.S. Cellular Field. If someone would be held accountable and it at least looked like anyone gave a damn both in the field and in the office, I'd be inclined to rethink my stance. Until that day comes, though, I can't allow myself to support a lazy product. It's a shame, too, because I think the Nacho Helmets at the park are outstanding, and I would love to go to a game, helmet in hand, and cheer on the Sox, if only the team would just give me a reason to.

Thank you for making yourself available for us fans to be heard.

- (my name)

Rocky Soprano

08-04-2011, 01:28 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

Great letter!
:gulp:

Dirty30

08-04-2011, 01:30 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

That was awesome! I wish I could co-sign that letter, everything in that letter is exactly how I feel.

Aesero

08-04-2011, 01:32 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

Sums up how many Sox fans feel. The Giants benchings last season is what I always bring up when someone mentions Dunn/Rios contracts, and I've yet to get a good response to that.

BainesHOF

08-04-2011, 02:36 AM

Excellent letter.

Boyer won't change just like the rest of the organization won't change. It's too bad because the organization is in serious trouble for a myriad of obvious reasons.

Dan H

08-04-2011, 02:45 AM

Last year I was a little disappointed because I thought attendance could be better. This year I don't blame anyone for not going. Why should we go out there to see the Yankees and Red Sox? The White Sox are supposed to be the draw. As I write this, the White Sox have been outscored 27-9 in three games to the Yankees. What an absolute joke. You can't get this season over with quick enough and I have no intention of returning to the park this season.

Crooked Number

08-04-2011, 02:56 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

This is wonderful. Well done. The San Fran analogy is superb. That kind of decision making is so far from reality for this White Sox organization.

We can honestly say, since we have all witnessed it, that the question "What would a White Sox player have to do to be benched for a significant amount of time?" has been answered. The answer, we have seen, is not hitting in the .150's into the first week of August, barely into double digits in the home run category. The answer, is not hitting barely .200, with less than 10 steals and 10 home runs after hitting 20+ and stealing 30+ the previous year, not to mention dogging it in the field.

So what does that leave us with? Your letter.

doublem23

08-04-2011, 06:09 AM

Here's my letter,

Brooks,

Just win.

Love,

Sox Fans

LongLiveFisk

08-04-2011, 06:24 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

Great letter and THANK YOU for mentioning the part about benching big money players. I am so sick and tired of hearing the "you have to play them" bull****. NO YOU DO NOT. You have to PAY them, not PLAY them. You've already wasted money, don't waste games as well.

Jollyroger2

08-04-2011, 06:47 AM

Good letter. Sums everything up nicely. The problem is the team won't do anything, isn't going to change, and they're going to be bad for a long, long time. The people in charge decided long ago that underachivement, mediocrity, and failed expectations are all not only acceptable, but are the cornerstones of the franchise right now.

They got their one title in 05 and apparently are satisfied with that. If they don't care, and the players obviously don't, why should the fans?

Fenway

08-04-2011, 07:32 AM

The late owner of the Pawtucket Red Sox once told me that if fans leave my ballpark angry win or lose, then we do not deserve their hard earned dollars.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 07:56 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

Mr Boyer, for die-hards like myself, the one thing that fans NEVER want to see on the field is lackadaisical play. This current stretch has seen plenty of that, and that makes me feel that if I were to come out and purchase tickets to see lazy, uninspired play, that I would be condoning it. Even in '07, there was never the sense that the team was dogging it....they were just a makeshift team that was slapped together due to injuries, and while their quality of play wasn't good, they at least tried, and I could get behind that. This 2011 team has all the talent in the world, and for all intents and purposes should be leading this division by multiple games. However, due to the offense scuffling (some would say 'historically'), the defense playing fundamentally awful and lazy, and the pitching getting burned out because they know that no matter how good they pitch, it will likely not be enough, the Sox find themselves out 6.5 games in a critical part of the season, mired in a 5-game losing streak.
Oh thank god you didn't use, "for all intensive porpoises." An error like that would have embarrassed us all. :D: Nice letter though, particularly since Brooks seems to be one of the few that actually listen.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 07:58 AM

The late owner of the Pawtucket Red Sox once told me that if fans leave my ballpark angry win or lose, then we do not deserve their hard earned dollars.

Well A. that's minor league and B. at least fans are leaving angry. Right now fans are leaving indifferent or not at all since they're not showing up.

MARTINMVP

08-04-2011, 08:02 AM

Good letter. Sums everything up nicely. The problem is the team won't do anything, isn't going to change, and they're going to be bad for a long, long time. The people in charge decided long ago that underachivement, mediocrity, and failed expectations are all not only acceptable, but are the cornerstones of the franchise right now.

They got their one title in 05 and apparently are satisfied with that. If they don't care, and the players obviously don't, why should the fans?

You are making it sound like that the team is perfectly ok with the current outcome. I highly doubt that.

The organization's stubbornness to change, I don't think is because they are content with the status quo - they just happen to (perhaps, foolishly) believe that the current setup still provides them the best opportunity to eventually turn things around.

The organization went into this season thinking that the pieces were in place to make a run. We bought into it because we had a good reason to believe that this team might be good. Hell, people still believe that this team has the talent.

Yeah, this sucks now, but it's not because the organization just doesn't care.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 08:49 AM

Here's my letter to Brooks:

That's a fantastic letter, but honestly the best outcome would be for Brooks to forward that directly to JR and Kenny. Brooks has nothing to do with the onfield product. This mess is on Kenny and Ozzie and perhaps JR.

The Sox crawled to within 2.5 games a week ago, and now the free-fall has begun. How many damn games have been thrown away this year because of the Sox refusal to sit Rios and/or Dunn when Viciedo and De Aza could have been up here. A simple for 1-for-4 or 1-for-3 (and making contact on the outs) from Viciedo or De Aza in many games could have been the difference between five more wins and five less losses than the current record. Instead, in many games we got the requisite 0-for-4 with three strikeouts and not being able to put the ball in play to advance runners.

There's plenty of stuff to complain to Brooks about (incomprehensible ticket prices and the disaster screw job of dynamic-pricing, parking prices, closing the ramp to Gate Six for no reason after the games, stupid uniform tweaks, having the sound system at the Cell cranked up louder this year than past years, god-awful third-world concession stands in the upper deck, radio broadcast team consisting of two color commentators that still refuse to announce the result of a play minutes after it has happened and forget that they're not on tv, radio broadcasts that are so littered with commercials and sponsors for every possible play that its insulting (seriously, a double has to be sponsored?), refusal to abandon god-awful insulting marketing campaign two-thirds into the season (Are YOU all in?) Seriously?).

Procol Harum

08-04-2011, 08:52 AM

Here's my letter,

Brooks,

Just win.

Love,

Sox Fans

P.S.: More churro stands, please...

doublem23

08-04-2011, 08:53 AM

P.S.: More churro stands, please...

One thing at at time. :cool:

Procol Harum

08-04-2011, 08:56 AM

One thing at at time. :cool:

Yeah, I could live with longer strolls for churros if we were up 6 games on the Tigers....

SI1020

08-04-2011, 08:59 AM

Great letter and THANK YOU for mentioning the part about benching big money players. I am so sick and tired of hearing the "you have to play them" bull****. NO YOU DO NOT. You have to PAY them, not PLAY them. You've already wasted money, don't waste games as well. I've been trying to say exactly the same thing for a long time without success. I don't always convey my thoughts in such a succinct manner like you just did.

ChiSoxGal85

08-04-2011, 09:32 AM

Great letter and THANK YOU for mentioning the part about benching big money players. I am so sick and tired of hearing the "you have to play them" bull****. NO YOU DO NOT. You have to PAY them, not PLAY them. You've already wasted money, don't waste games as well.

I've been trying to say exactly the same thing for a long time without success. I don't always convey my thoughts in such a succinct manner like you just did.
+1,000.

Wanna win games? Put the best team you can on the field, regardless of how much money each player is making.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 09:35 AM

I'm doing the only thing I can do...dropping my season tickets.

kaufsox

08-04-2011, 09:46 AM

I think someone mentioned here a little bit ago that if your half price days are sell outs and your "premium" games are half full, perhaps your pricing needs a tweak. That whole supply/demand, people will pay what the market will bear doo-hicky I keep hearing about.

SOXSINCE'70

08-04-2011, 09:49 AM

I stopped listening to the radio after they drove Rooney out of town. The radio side continues to be a train wreck.

Amen. Farmer is a good analyst, but DJ??
To quote the man,"great gooblie woo".:puking:

Come on, Dave Wills.Tampa can't be that great.

You are needed here more than you know.Please come back.:praying:

amsteel

08-04-2011, 10:02 AM

I'm doing the only thing I can do...dropping my season tickets.

Good for you, I'm sure that's not an easy decision to make.

Unless Brooks gets, say 10000 emails, the the only way any changes are gonna get made are STHs dropping their plans.

Amen. Farmer is a good analyst, but DJ??
To quote the man,"great gooblie woo".:puking:

Come on, Dave Wills.Tampa can't be that great.

You are needed here more than you know.Please come back.:praying:

Just PM him. He'll listen to you for sure.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 10:45 AM

I just sent this to Brooks

Hi Brooks

I can not even imagine how you must be feeling after the last 5 games. Last Friday night it looked like the team was in for the long haul....but now.

Obviously in your position there is nothing you can do what happens 'between the lines' but there are many, many other off field issues that need to be looked at.

I know many long time White Sox fans who live on the northside and north shore plus others that I have come to know from Sox message boards. The same issues seems to be a concern across the board.

The ticket price structure has been a complete failure. On July 25th a Monday , 37,110 fans enjoyed 'half price night' against Detroit. That shows fans are being very cautious over ticket buys. These fans have also told you loud and clear they do not want to pay extra to see the Boston Red Sox or the New York Yankees especially if there is a good chance the team will fare poorly in those games. Compounding the matter is the White Sox dynamic pricing on the website - http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/ticketing/dynamic_pricing.jsp?c_id=cws which at this point fans are laughing at in this Stub Hub universe http://www.stubhub.com/chicago-white-sox-tickets/white-sox-vs-yankees-8-4-2011-1003961/

The Red Sox as you might remember wanted no part of the MLB official tie-in with Stub Hub and sat out until Selig ordered them to participate. The reason was simple, they did not want to lose control of their own inventory. The reality is Stub Hub has changed the ticket buying universe in ways nobody could have seen 5 years ago.

The parking fees at The Cell have to be looked at as well. Gasoline prices in Chicago are the highest in the country and people have cut back on driving. METRA and the CTA have seen an increase because of this. The economy is still very shaky and many people with jobs are scared they may lose what they have. Sadly public transportation to the Cell is not great from the areas of Chicagoland that is considered Sox country. The CTA Red Line is good for travel to the Loop and northside, but many of your fans to the south just do not want to deal with the hassle of getting to 95th St. The new METRA station at 35th St will help fans coming in on the Joliet Line but it is of little use to others. The PACE express buses have a small but loyal following, but make mo mistake, the price of the USCF lots is keeping a number of fans home.

Fans are also upset that many concession stands are not open which then only increases the wait at the others. I am not sure the White Sox have much say in this as I have watched for decades how Jeremy Jacobs (Delaware North-SportsService) operates.

I don't know how you can deal with the upper deck problem but it seems obvious that if there are few good seats available downstairs people just look for another game instead of buying upstairs.

I also believe you have to look hard at the radio broadcasts. Ed Farmer is NOT a #1 announcer. He was great as a #2 to John Rooney. You really have to look into getting an established play by play man in here ( instead of an ex-jock). Tampa Bay radio would be a good place to look for two very good play by play men who also can sell the team.

TV - 50% of your fans love Hawk, 50% hate him. Been that way for years.

I wish you and the team well tonight and the rest of the way. Obviously a winning streak will kill some ills short term but I think a total top to bottom look at off-field operations has to be considered.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 10:55 AM

I just sent this to Brooks

Hi Brooks

I can not even imagine how you must be feeling after the last 5 games. Last Friday night it looked like the team was in for the long haul....but now.

Obviously in your position there is nothing you can do what happens 'between the lines' but there are many, many other off field issues that need to be looked at.

I know many long time White Sox fans who live on the northside and north shore plus others that I have come to know from Sox message boards. The same issues seems to be a concern across the board.

The ticket price structure has been a complete failure. On July 25th a Monday , 37,110 fans enjoyed 'half price night' against Detroit. That shows fans are being very cautious over ticket buys. These fans have also told you loud and clear they do not want to pay extra to see the Boston Red Sox or the New York Yankees especially if there is a good chance the team will fare poorly in those games. Compounding the matter is the White Sox dynamic pricing on the website - http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/ticketing/dynamic_pricing.jsp?c_id=cws which at this point fans are laughing at in this Stub Hub universe http://www.stubhub.com/chicago-white-sox-tickets/white-sox-vs-yankees-8-4-2011-1003961/

The Red Sox as you might remember wanted no part of the MLB official tie-in with Stub Hub and sat out until Selig ordered them to participate. The reason was simple, they did not want to lose control of their own inventory. The reality is Stub Hub has changed the ticket buying universe in ways nobody could have seen 5 years ago.

The parking fees at The Cell have to be looked at as well. Gasoline prices in Chicago are the highest in the country and people have cut back on driving. METRA and the CTA have seen an increase because of this. The economy is still very shaky and many people with jobs are scared they may lose what they have. Sadly public transportation to the Cell is not great from the areas of Chicagoland that is considered Sox country. The CTA Red Line is good for travel to the Loop and northside, but many of your fans to the south just do not want to deal with the hassle of getting to 95th St. The new METRA station at 35th St will help fans coming in on the Joliet Line but it is of little use to others. The PACE express buses have a small but loyal following, but make mo mistake, the price of the USCF lots is keeping a number of fans home.

Fans are also upset that many concession stands are not open which then only increases the wait at the others. I am not sure the White Sox have much say in this as I have watched for decades how Jeremy Jacobs (Delaware North-SportsService) operates.

I don't know how you can deal with the upper deck problem but it seems obvious that if there are few good seats available downstairs people just look for another game instead of buying upstairs.

I also believe you have to look hard at the radio broadcasts. Ed Farmer is NOT a #1 announcer. He was great as a #2 to John Rooney. You really have to look into getting an established play by play man in here ( instead of an ex-jock). Tampa Bay radio would be a good place to look for two very good play by play men who also can sell the team.

TV - 50% of your fans love Hawk, 50% hate him. Been that way for years.

I wish you and the team well tonight and the rest of the way. Obviously a winning streak will kill some ills short term but I think a total top to bottom look at off-field operations has to be considered.
Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 10:59 AM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

The message has to get thru to them.....the fans are there but they can not be taken for granted.

hi im skot

08-04-2011, 11:00 AM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Huh?

Fenway did nothing wrong in his message to Brooks.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 11:00 AM

I'm doing the only thing I can do...dropping my season tickets.I dropped them years ago. The el system was under construction and then I moved to the burbs. I'd love to go but I'm older now and have better things to spend my money on. Mortgage, vacations for my family, not 23 bucks for parking, etc. I'm one that wants to eat everything at the cell and you know what after a beer and a hotdog, i might get a nachos. Not a helmet mind you, because as awesome as that looks it's over my food budget. The economy being poor excuse is played out and if they keep blaming everything on that they're screwed. Lower than capacity games for the last week or so say two things. Poor pricing and poor product. Very little to do with economy.

Rocky Soprano

08-04-2011, 11:01 AM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Fenway has been pretty vocal about also being a White Sox fan.
While the White Sox are not his favorite team, I for one applaud him for saying what most of us feel.

I have no problem with Fenway sticking up for all of us.

SI1020

08-04-2011, 11:03 AM

Fenway has been pretty vocal about also being a White Sox fan.
While the White Sox are not his favorite team, I for one applaud him for saying what most of us feel.

I have no problem with Fenway sticking up for all of us. At this point we need all the sticking up for we can get. What a train wreck this franchise is and the people that count don't seem to know or care.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 11:05 AM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Yeah, stop saying what Sox fans think and actually taking the time to tell management, which very few here will even do! How dare you!

LITTLE NELL

08-04-2011, 11:07 AM

We all know that Fenway's true allegience is to Boston and their teams but he does have a soft spot in his heart for the White Sox. That being said, Fenway's letter to Brooks was fantastic, hopefully his letter and the others will not be ignored.

asindc

08-04-2011, 11:16 AM

Huh?

Fenway did nothing wrong in his message to Brooks.

I agree, and I appreciate Fenway for taking the time to give a 'guest perspective.' The more voices the better.

Lip Man 1

08-04-2011, 11:18 AM

Seems that Brooks feels differently about some things now from when I interviewed him, specifically to Gonzo he said he thought Sox fans were still watching on TV and listening on the radio.

That runs counter to this:

“About the only thing that I wish I could change long-term is that sometimes the passion from our fans can be a weakness. What I mean is that a lot of Sox fans are so passionate, so into the team that if things aren’t going well, they get mad, they get fed up… they say, ‘I’m not going to watch these guys, I’m not going to listen to them and I’m not going to show up at the game."

Lip

hi im skot

08-04-2011, 11:19 AM

Seems that Brooks feels differently about some things now from when I interviewed him, specifically to Gonzo he said he thought Sox fans were still watching on TV and listening on the radio.

That runs counter to this:

ďAbout the only think that I wish I could change long-term is that sometimes the passion from our fans can be a weakness. What I mean is that a lot of Sox fans are so passionate, so into the team that if things arenít going well, they get mad, they get fed upÖ they say, ĎIím not going to watch these guys, Iím not going to listen to them and Iím not going to show up at the game."

Lip

I'd missed that quote when you ran that interview previously. He comes off as a tool in that quote.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 11:27 AM

ďAbout the only thing that I wish I could change long-term is that sometimes the passion from our fans can be a weakness. What I mean is that a lot of Sox fans are so passionate, so into the team that if things arenít going well, they get mad, they get fed upÖ they say, ĎIím not going to watch these guys, Iím not going to listen to them and Iím not going to show up at the game."

Lip

Screw you, Brooks - that "passion" is what differentiates us from the sheep who flock to Wrigley every game.

FielderJones

08-04-2011, 11:28 AM

I'd missed that quote when you ran that interview previously. He comes off as a tool in that quote.

I don't see it that way. The passion of Sox fans is a weakness, to the club's bottom line if they put a crappy product on the field. Marketing to fans with unconditional love, like Cubs fans or ND fans is easy. Marketing to Sox fans is tough -- you have to actually win, or look like you're trying.

Crestani

08-04-2011, 11:30 AM

I'd missed that quote when you ran that interview previously. He comes off as a tool in that quote.

More like a (s)tool..!!

Lip Man 1

08-04-2011, 11:32 AM

Fielder has it right. Brooks is not a tool. He's a marketing guy who looks at the situation through that prism.

I don't think the comment was made with any disrespect and he did thank Sox fans for coming out in 2007 to support a bad team.

And maybe Brooks honestly thinks fans are still watching or listening or maybe he was trying to soften things for Gonzo. Who knows for sure. But the comment does seem to be contradictory.

Lip

Brian26

08-04-2011, 11:33 AM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Actually, what Fenway just wrote was more constructive than anything else I've seen here in the past week. He just summarized everything that's been discussed here that has merit. Instead of emailing Boyer to complain that the team is lazy and sucks on the field, Fenway just gave him three or four key suggestions on what could be changed.

If he's not speaking for the true Sox fanbase, that's a shame, because it seems sometimes like the true Sox fanbase can't eloquently speak for themselves.

eriqjaffe

08-04-2011, 11:36 AM

win, or look like you're trying.I think I see next year's slogan.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 11:36 AM

I'd love to go but I'm older now and have better things to spend my money on. Mortgage, vacations for my family, not 23 bucks for parking, etc. I'm one that wants to eat everything at the cell and you know what after a beer and a hotdog, i might get a nachos. Not a helmet mind you, because as awesome as that looks it's over my food budget. The economy being poor excuse is played out and if they keep blaming everything on that they're screwed. Lower than capacity games for the last week or so say two things. Poor pricing and poor product. Very little to do with economy.

Huh? :scratch:

Completely incoherent statement here. You just said in the first two sentences that you have more important things to do with your money and go on to list how expensive parking and nachos are (making me believe finances are an issue in your family), but in the last sentence you say "very little to do with the economy."

Also, seriously, it's against the rules to have a mortgage and children and also go to Sox games? Seriously, that's the choice we have to make? Couldn't you, like, if money is that tight, skip the beer at the game and perhaps bag some snacks up? I love the gun-to-the-head attitude you hear like this on sports radio too. "Well, Danny, after we park, buy four beers, hotdogs and candy for the kids, souvenier helmets, more beer, the 50/50 Split Sox raffle and then get more beer, it costs $500 to go to a game! I'm done!" :thumbsup: American Dream.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 11:42 AM

Seems that Brooks feels differently about some things now from when I interviewed him, specifically to Gonzo he said he thought Sox fans were still watching on TV and listening on the radio.

Does Brooks not have access to tv and radio ratings right now? Please tell me the marketing chief for the team knows that ratings are in the toilet and have been for several years. Wow.

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 11:44 AM

Letís be real, Brooks has never understood the fans. The entire front office has not. There have never been any repercussions to Ozzie calling out the fans. They donít understand that the fan base is very split on the 2 team mouth pieces (I would guess Majority of Sox Fans canít stand Hawk anymore, and there is a very obvious take him or leave him feel to Rongey). I mean, the front office has made it hard to enjoy being a sox fan. I used to go to 10-20 games a year. I loved it. Even when we werenít that good, I just loved watching the team play. Now, I wonít give them my money. The food sucks and the prices are worse, the product on the field is terrible, the manager canít even get the players to play hard, and the manager and GM are blaming us, not them. This team has acted like nothing but perpetual losers since 2005. We had no idea how to handle winning. We acted like idiots who won the lottery and spent every penny. I mean, come on, ďLets Party like its 2005Ē. Maybe I am wrong, but do the Yankees and Red Sox use slogans of world titles from 3-4-5 years ago. The face of our all in campaign is our soft hitting catcher who has a pathetic OPS and hasnít thrown out a base stealer in 3 years. Yet Brooks, Kenny, Ozzie, consistently use words like championship and winning and tradition. We donít have that. We have fewer titles in the last 20 years than the Florida Marlins. Winning 1 title doesnít mean anything. You wanít to know why people donít show up Brooks? Because I am not paying 70 bucks for my wife and I to get in, eat a 5 dollar hot dog and a 7 dollar slice of frozen pizza, drink our 6 dollar jumbo pop and watch 125 million dollars worth of crap on the field.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 11:51 AM

This team has acted like nothing but perpetual losers since 2005.

Except for that first half record of 57-31 in 2006 when they were still arguably the best team in baseball, including sweeping the eventual World Champion Cardinals, including a blowout win of 20-6. But, who's counting?

Fenway

08-04-2011, 11:52 AM

I have been going to White Sox home games for 30 years but also thru work a lot of other parks. It has always struck me as odd how little the Sox do outside the park to greet fans and give the impression that we are glad you came. Things like a dixieland band or jugglars or something.

The only park that does even less is Oakland.

Another example is the program as it is one of the worst in MLB. If you have ever seen Yankees Magazine you know what I mean. Fans happily buy a new one every month.

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 11:53 AM

Except for that first half record of 57-31 in 2006 when they were still arguably the best team in baseball, including sweeping the eventual World Champion Cardinals, including a blowout win of 20-6. But, who's counting?

I meant more in the marketing/front office approach. We just kept hanging our hat on 2005. To a lot of fans, it meant very little after the first week of 2006. It was a new season.

asindc

08-04-2011, 11:53 AM

Letís be real, Brooks has never understood the fans. The entire front office has not. There have never been any repercussions to Ozzie calling out the fans. They donít understand that the fan base is very split on the 2 team mouth pieces (I would guess Majority of Sox Fans canít stand Hawk anymore, and there is a very obvious take him or leave him feel to Rongey). I mean, the front office has made it hard to enjoy being a sox fan. I used to go to 10-20 games a year. I loved it. Even when we werenít that good, I just loved watching the team play. Now, I wonít give them my money. The food sucks and the prices are worse, the product on the field is terrible, the manager canít even get the players to play hard, and the manager and GM are blaming us, not them. This team has acted like nothing but perpetual losers since 2005. We had no idea how to handle winning. We acted like idiots who won the lottery and spent every penny. I mean, come on, ďLets Party like its 2005Ē. Maybe I am wrong, but do the Yankees and Red Sox use slogans of world titles from 3-4-5 years ago. The face of our all in campaign is our soft hitting catcher who has a pathetic OPS and hasnít thrown out a base stealer in 3 years. Yet Brooks, Kenny, Ozzie, consistently use words like championship and winning and tradition. We donít have that. We have fewer titles in the last 20 years than the Florida Marlins. Winning 1 title doesnít mean anything. You wanít to know why people donít show up Brooks? Because I am not paying 70 bucks for my wife and I to get in, eat a 5 dollar hot dog and a 7 dollar slice of frozen pizza, drink our 6 dollar jumbo pop and watch 125 million dollars worth of crap on the field.

I think this would make a great email to Brooks, word for word.

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 11:54 AM

I think this would make a great email to Brooks, word for word.

I will save him the time of pressing the delete button by not sending it.

kevingrt

08-04-2011, 11:58 AM

Letís be real, Brooks has never understood the fans. The entire front office has not. There have never been any repercussions to Ozzie calling out the fans. They donít understand that the fan base is very split on the 2 team mouth pieces (I would guess Majority of Sox Fans canít stand Hawk anymore, and there is a very obvious take him or leave him feel to Rongey). I mean, the front office has made it hard to enjoy being a sox fan. I used to go to 10-20 games a year. I loved it. Even when we werenít that good, I just loved watching the team play. Now, I wonít give them my money. The food sucks and the prices are worse, the product on the field is terrible, the manager canít even get the players to play hard, and the manager and GM are blaming us, not them. This team has acted like nothing but perpetual losers since 2005. We had no idea how to handle winning. We acted like idiots who won the lottery and spent every penny. I mean, come on, ďLets Party like its 2005Ē. Maybe I am wrong, but do the Yankees and Red Sox use slogans of world titles from 3-4-5 years ago. The face of our all in campaign is our soft hitting catcher who has a pathetic OPS and hasnít thrown out a base stealer in 3 years. Yet Brooks, Kenny, Ozzie, consistently use words like championship and winning and tradition. We donít have that. We have fewer titles in the last 20 years than the Florida Marlins. Winning 1 title doesnít mean anything. You wanít to know why people donít show up Brooks? Because I am not paying 70 bucks for my wife and I to get in, eat a 5 dollar hot dog and a 7 dollar slice of frozen pizza, drink our 6 dollar jumbo pop and watch 125 million dollars worth of crap on the field.

Could you be anymore right?

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 12:00 PM

I am serious though. You want to impress your fan base, I would rather pay 8 bucks for a good Chicago beer like 312 (yes I know it’s a NY beer now) than a Miller Lite. We live in the city of Pizza and we have a deal with DiGornio Frozen Pizza? Are you kidding me. It would be like replacing Best Kosher with Oscar Meyer. Know your freaking fan base. It drives me insane because I work in Marketing and I know Brooks is highly educated, but his execution has been terrible.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 12:01 PM

I have been going to White Sox home games for 30 years but also thru work a lot of other parks. It has always struck me as odd how little the Sox do outside the park to greet fans and give the impression that we are glad you came. Things like a dixieland band or jugglars or something.

The Sox, for several years recently, have had bands playing outside Gate 4 in front of the park.

And we do have the flash-mob bucket guys working the viaduct on 35th Street for big series, so that must count for something.

Another example is the program as it is one of the worst in MLB. If you have ever seen Yankees Magazine you know what I mean. Fans happily buy a new one every month.The Sox do four programs a year. I can't compare them to other teams.

I'll tell you one thing that impressed the HELL out of me recently. I have the Directv sports package, and I was watching YES network the other night. They have a weekly Yankees show that is phenomenal. David Cone was hosting it (not sure if he does every week), and they had players on doing interviews and segments about their personal life, in between highlights. It was like a mini This Week in Baseball just for the Yankees. The Sox used to do a show "White Sox Weekly" somewhat similar to this on the old SportsChannel, but they stopped that many years ago. How in the world has CSN not put a show together like this recently? Show weekly highlights, do an interview with Konerko or Buehrle at home, talk about Buehrle's charitable pet foundation, etc.

Another idea for you, Brooks. Free of charge. Keep working on the uniforms though. That's going to sell tickets.

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 12:02 PM

Letís be real, Brooks has never understood the fans. The entire front office has not. There have never been any repercussions to Ozzie calling out the fans. They donít understand that the fan base is very split on the 2 team mouth pieces (I would guess Majority of Sox Fans canít stand Hawk anymore, and there is a very obvious take him or leave him feel to Rongey). I mean, the front office has made it hard to enjoy being a sox fan. I used to go to 10-20 games a year. I loved it. Even when we werenít that good, I just loved watching the team play. Now, I wonít give them my money. The food sucks and the prices are worse, the product on the field is terrible, the manager canít even get the players to play hard, and the manager and GM are blaming us, not them. This team has acted like nothing but perpetual losers since 2005. We had no idea how to handle winning. We acted like idiots who won the lottery and spent every penny. I mean, come on, ďLets Party like its 2005Ē. Maybe I am wrong, but do the Yankees and Red Sox use slogans of world titles from 3-4-5 years ago. The face of our all in campaign is our soft hitting catcher who has a pathetic OPS and hasnít thrown out a base stealer in 3 years. Yet Brooks, Kenny, Ozzie, consistently use words like championship and winning and tradition. We donít have that. We have fewer titles in the last 20 years than the Florida Marlins. Winning 1 title doesnít mean anything. You wanít to know why people donít show up Brooks? Because I am not paying 70 bucks for my wife and I to get in, eat a 5 dollar hot dog and a 7 dollar slice of frozen pizza, drink our 6 dollar jumbo pop and watch 125 million dollars worth of crap on the field.

This is good.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 12:05 PM

You wan’t to know why people don’t show up Brooks? Because I am not paying 70 bucks for my wife and I to get in, eat a 5 dollar hot dog and a 7 dollar slice of frozen pizza, drink our 6 dollar jumbo pop and watch 125 million dollars worth of crap on the field.

Perhaps buy $5 tickets on stubhub, get the free soda coupon behind homeplate for being a designated driver, eat at home before you come to the game and bag some snacks up if you think you're going to be hungry. I forgot the Sox put a gun to your head when you enter the park and steal your credit card.

:thud:

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 12:06 PM

Perhaps buy $5 tickets on stubhub, get the free soda coupon behind homeplate for being a designated drive, eat at home before you come to the game and bag some snacks up if you think you're going to be hungry. I forgot the Sox put a gun to your head when you enter the park and steal your credit card.

:thud:

It has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for a 10 dollar steak either. I wouldn't pay 20 dollars for a big mac. I am a lower deck snob with a pregnant wife who doesn't enjoy heights. But eating out at the game, its part of the atmosphere. It seems many more agree with me than you.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 12:07 PM

It has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for a 10 dollar steak either. I wouldn't pay 20 dollars for a big mac. I am a lower deck snob with a pregnant wife who doesn't enjoy heights.

That's fair enough.

About the pizza, I wonder if Brooks tried to work a deal with a local pizza joint and couldn't make it happen. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one.

kevingrt

08-04-2011, 12:09 PM

It has nothing to do with not being able to afford it. I wouldn't pay 200 dollars for a 10 dollar steak either. I wouldn't pay 20 dollars for a big mac. I am a lower deck snob with a pregnant wife who doesn't enjoy heights. But eating out at the game, its part of the atmosphere. It seems many more agree with me than you.

I agree with much of what you say but almost all stadiums have ridiculous concession prices. And we are in one of the most expensive cities in the nation so you have to expect high food prices. And it's not like they charge way more then the Bears, Cubs, Bulls, Hawks, or even the Cougars. The pricing is ridiculous but it's going to be the same at any park.

As for the ticket prices they are insane.

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 12:16 PM

I agree with much of what you say but almost all stadiums have ridiculous concession prices. And we are in one of the most expensive cities in the nation so you have to expect high food prices. And it's not like they charge way more then the Bears, Cubs, Bulls, Hawks, or even the Cougars. The pricing is ridiculous but it's going to be the same at any park.

As for the ticket prices they are insane.

Maybe a more fair comparison would be, I donít want to go a 200 dinner, have it suck, then have the waiter, chef and owner tell me it is my fault the food is no good, then beg me to give them a second chance and do it all over again. Then hear the staff tell a newspaper less people are eating there because of the economy.
I wouldn't mind paying more for the food it was any kind of quality.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 12:17 PM

The Sox, for several years recently, have had bands playing outside Gate 4 in front of the park.

And we do have the flash-mob bucket guys working the viaduct on 35th Street for big series, so that must count for something.

The Sox do four programs a year. I can't compare them to other teams.

I'll tell you one thing that impressed the HELL out of me recently. I have the Directv sports package, and I was watching YES network the other night. They have a weekly Yankees show that is phenomenal. David Cone was hosting it (not sure if he does every week), and they had players on doing interviews and segments about their personal life, in between highlights. It was like a mini This Week in Baseball just for the Yankees. The Sox used to do a show "White Sox Weekly" somewhat similar to this on the old SportsChannel, but they stopped that many years ago. How in the world has CSN not put a show together like this recently? Show weekly highlights, do an interview with Konerko or Buehrle at home, talk about Buehrle's charitable pet foundation, etc.

Another idea for you, Brooks. Free of charge. Keep working on the uniforms though. That's going to sell tickets.

Red Sox do the same on NESN
http://www.nesn.com/ultimate-red-sox-show/

It is produced by Red Sox Productions which has nothing to do with NESN

doublem23

08-04-2011, 12:21 PM

I meant more in the marketing/front office approach. We just kept hanging our hat on 2005. To a lot of fans, it meant very little after the first week of 2006. It was a new season.

Bull-****ing-****

Domeshot17

08-04-2011, 12:24 PM

Bull-****ing-****

The 2005 White Sox are Becoming the 85 Bears

Dibbs

08-04-2011, 12:26 PM

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

I completely disagree. I very much appreciate Fenway taking time to write that email to Brooks. Maybe it will inspire me to write something as well.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 12:33 PM

When it comes to concessions at The Cell the person you should express your anger with is

What I have never understood is - the concessions at TD Garden that Jacobs OWNS are horrific - yet The Cell and Miller Park are pretty good.

The Jacobs family has had the White Sox contract for what seems like forever.

http://www.delawarenorth.com/Sportservice-Locations.aspx

Jerko

08-04-2011, 12:45 PM

I have been going to White Sox home games for 30 years but also thru work a lot of other parks. It has always struck me as odd how little the Sox do outside the park to greet fans and give the impression that we are glad you came. Things like a dixieland band or jugglars or something.

The only park that does even less is Oakland.

Another example is the program as it is one of the worst in MLB. If you have ever seen Yankees Magazine you know what I mean. Fans happily buy a new one every month.

I've been saying for years that a lot of the time you're at a Sox game, they give off the feeling that you are "bothering" them by being there and they can't wait until you leave. It's annoying when the team is playing well; it's insulting, at best, this year.

PatK

08-04-2011, 12:45 PM

Oh, yes, they are...

I dunno, I have XM and listen to a lot of other teams radio broadcasts.

Farmio and DJ are an elite unit compared to most of them.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 12:51 PM

Long time White Sox fans will remember this...

Bill Veeck ALWAYS had an listed phone number and would also always take a call from a customer - because without customers there would be no White Sox.

That is almost impossible to expect today but I can think of three very rich owners that have made their email public and do respond.

Mark Cuban
Ted Leonsis
John Henry

I would never expect JR to do anything like this - remember he wanted no part of the limelight back in 1981 and was happy to give Eddie Einhorn top billing. But Eddie was too brash for Chicago and JR assumed the role.

roylestillman

08-04-2011, 12:54 PM

The points made by Domeshot and Fenway are right on target and I would sign my name to both of them. A few additional points:

The promotion schedule is weak and tired. Elvis night is a Premium priced night, really? What demo are you looking for here? Mullet night should have been a one off self-mocking event. I think the limted give-sways (first 10,000, etc.) are a good idea because they get people in the park earlier to spend money and pay the bills.

I also wonder what the rise in tailgating has done to concession revenues. Unsaid, I wonder if that is the reason that the cost of parking has skyrocketed, in an attempt to recoup lost revenue.

The frozen pizza in Chicago is unforgivable.

Closing souvenir shops before the game is over is unbelievable.

Dynamic Pricing and premium pricing is a failure.and offensive. If I'm right about Stub Hub ticket dumping, someone in the ticket office should be DFA'd.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 12:58 PM

Except for that first half record of 57-31 in 2006 when they were still arguably the best team in baseball, including sweeping the eventual World Champion Cardinals, including a blowout win of 20-6. But, who's counting?

Chicago White Sox: Don't forget our awesome half season!

Come on, Brian.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 01:00 PM

Perhaps buy $5 tickets on stubhub, get the free soda coupon behind homeplate for being a designated driver, eat at home before you come to the game and bag some snacks up if you think you're going to be hungry. I forgot the Sox put a gun to your head when you enter the park and steal your credit card.

These are all very reasonable and intelligent ways to save money and still go to a game.

But they arguably take away from the experience and we should not have to be forced to attend a game like second-class citizens.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 01:01 PM

The 2005 White Sox are Becoming the 85 Bears

Sans the lifetime endorsement deals and people actually caring.

Aside from the Bulls, Chicago *is* a second city when it comes to sports. Because of the decades (and century) long futility, we blow our collective loads when any team wins a championship, and then are happy we got at least one in the last 30, 88, or 102 years.

It is acceptable for a city like Cleveland or something, but not for NY, LA, Chicago...

Fenway

08-04-2011, 01:16 PM

As I mentioned in my note when MLB signed the deal with Stub Hub the Red Sox said we don't want any part of it and finally last year finally joined after Selig put on pressure.

The Red Sox do not allow Stub Hub to have an office near Fenway ( Bruins and Celtics do )
http://www.stubhub.com/pick-up-locations/

Ace is right next to the park and there are many times the Red Sox ticket office will send people there
http://www.aceticket.com/information/store-locations/

I think I understand the stock market better than these ticket systems

TDog

08-04-2011, 01:19 PM

Here's my letter to Brooks: ...
Teams like to say that they have to play the high-contract guys so they can justify the money, but let me tell you a story about a team that didn't do that. Last year, the San Francisco Giants had two highly-overpriced contracts who weren't living up to the money. Unbelievably, the Giants management decided to bench them and call up/acquire low-priced players to start in their place. One of these contracts is a guy you may have heard of: Aaron Rowand, who was supplanted by a man named Andres Torres, a career minor-leaguer. Even more incredibly, unlike the White Sox's 'benchings', these benchings stuck, as both players (Rowand and Barry Zito,the other ridiculous contract) didn't get placed back into starting roles for the rest of the season, a season that ended with the Giants players and management hoisting the Commissioner's Trophy. ...

I have used the Giants as an example of not playing high-priced players myself, but you are taking things out of context. Torres replaced Rowand after Rowand was placed on the disabled list because he was hit in the face with a pitch by Vicente Padilla. Rowand had gotten off to a great start. Torres came in off the bench to replace him and did very well. After Rowand was activated, he didn't do as well as Torres had been doing, and Torres ended up winning the starting job after getting the chance because Rowand was injured. Then Torres had appendicitis in August and Rowant played more. Rowand actually started Game 5 in Texas because Torres was slumping in the postseason. Rowand was on the field when the Giants won the title. This year, no one is hitter very well while starting in center for the Giants, but Rowand is the team's best pinch-hitter when he isn't starting.

Zito was in the starting rotation during the regular season and got off to a great start. But because of his ineffectiveness later in the season, he didn't make any of the postseason rosters. the Giants only going with four starters in the postseason and having acquired some relief specialists in July and August. Zito is now on the wink-wink disable list. He'll be activated in August and won't be eligible fro the postseason. But there is a difference between not starting a pitcher who gets his brains beaten out every time he starts and starting a position player who isn't doing the job.

One interesting comparison between the Giants and the White Sox you might make is that the Giants are last or near last in the NL in most important offensive categories. And yet, they are in first place. And they are guaranteed to make the postseason after picking up Orlando Cabrera at the non-waiver trade deadline.

The White Sox don't really have a choice but to play Dunn, unless they release him, especially with Konerko unable to play. It isn't just that he is being paid so much. There really isn't anyone else you would want to DH on a regular basis because they might be needed on the bench or to play defense. You would need another roster spot to DH Viciedo, and Until de Aza came up, the Sox really didn't have anyone they could start regularly in front of Rios.

The team was severely handicapped when it signed Dunn. He is a liability defensively and has never been the sort of hitter a winning team needs. He takes up a roster spot with someone who doesn't help you defensively and doesn't have speed. And he gets paid so much money. All people saw in the offseason were the home runs. That got fans excited, but they didn't even buy tickets. Essentially, they signed Dunn to sell tickets, and that didn't happen. Mark Kotsay would be a better designated hitter. But the White Sox could be 2 games in first with Kotsay as the regular DH and they wouldn't be selling tickets because fans would be complaining that they can't win with Kotsay at DH and they should have picked up Dunn.

I understand Brooks' frustration. I understand Guillen's frustration. I understand Williams' frustration. I'm a fan, and I feel frustration.

I have talked with Brooks, though, and I can tell you he will be impressed that the letter is well written. It helps when you don't misspell obscenities. I won't say Brooks has a thankless job because I would quite like working in the White Sox public relations office. But I think the accusation that he doesn't understand the fans is misplaced.

Goose

08-04-2011, 01:28 PM

I dunno, I have XM and listen to a lot of other teams radio broadcasts.

Farmio and DJ are an elite unit compared to most of them.

I, too, have XM, but I don't listen to much of other teams' radio guys. What I do know, however, is that Farmer and DJ are embarrassing to listen too. Every time DJ says something like "They got a lotta WOOOORK TA-DOOOOO", I cower my head in shame.

They are pathetic (Hawk is not omitted from this as well), and an embarrassment. Just because they are "better" (in your opinion) than other radio guys does not excuse them for being so bad.

tstrike2000

08-04-2011, 01:32 PM

Amen. Farmer is a good analyst, but DJ??
To quote the man,"great gooblie woo".:puking:

Come on, Dave Wills.Tampa can't be that great.

You are needed here more than you know.Please come back.:praying:

Farmer, "He's a good looking player." DJ, "And he can play baseball pretty well, too."

Pretty much haven't listened to another game on the radio since I heard that bad humor, along those lines, a few months back.

CLUBHOUSE KID

08-04-2011, 01:36 PM

Perhaps buy $5 tickets on stubhub, get the free soda coupon behind homeplate for being a designated driver, eat at home before you come to the game and bag some snacks up if you think you're going to be hungry. I forgot the Sox put a gun to your head when you enter the park and steal your credit card.

:thud:

Yeah let the ****ing fan do all these things just to try to enjoy a ****ty team. The White Sox are the ones putting the gun to their heads. Going to their games is a huge waste. It is the principal not the $. The Yankees are great and the park is great that is why people will pay the high prices or be willing to sit in the upper deck for $25.

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 01:45 PM

I, too, have XM, but I don't listen to much of other teams' radio guys. What I do know, however, is that Farmer and DJ are embarrassing to listen too. Every time DJ says something like "They got a lotta WOOOORK TA-DOOOOO", I cower my head in shame.

They are pathetic (Hawk is not omitted from this as well), and an embarrassment. Just because they are "better" (in your opinion) than other radio guys does not excuse them for being so bad.

I too cower my head in shame when I hear this. It's like they are dying to have a catchphrase of their own. No good. And Farmer is just so boring with his "Up steps Alex Rios, Rios has 6 homers, the next one will be his 7th." No **** Sherlock! And the stories about 79th & Francisco, St. Thomas More & St. Rita.....ENOUGH ALREADY!

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 01:48 PM

I'm curious as to the proportion of people who dislike Farmer think that Hawk is an acceptable announcer.

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 01:51 PM

I'm curious as to the proportion of people who dislike Farmer think that Hawk is an acceptable announcer.

Hawk is not a great announcer, but at leasthe brings an excitement, a little bit of fun (when the team is not getting rolled). But actually even during last nights disaster Hawk was decent because there was no disputed calls and nobody out to get the Sox, he and Stoney just talked baseball.

Goose

08-04-2011, 01:52 PM

I'm curious as to the proportion of people who dislike Farmer think that Hawk is an acceptable announcer.

If you were to put a gun to my head and force me to pick one, I would take Farmer all day long.

Hawk has jumped the shark many many years ago. He is beyond bad.

I don't like Farmer, but Hawk has become a cortoon of himself. Santo bad.

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 01:58 PM

If you were to put a gun to my head and force me to pick one, I would take Farmer all day long.

Hawk has jumped the shark many many years ago. He is beyond bad.

I don't like Farmer, but Hawk has become a cortoon of himself. Santo bad.

I agree. I find Hawk an embarrassment. I'm ashamed that he announces for my team of choice.

I'd imagine that people who like Hawk hate Farmer, and vice versa.

asindc

08-04-2011, 02:01 PM

If you were to put a gun to my head and force me to pick one, I would take Farmer all day long.

Hawk has jumped the shark many many years ago. He is beyond bad.

I don't like Farmer, but Hawk has become a cortoon of himself. Santo bad.

Nope, not quite that bad.

eriqjaffe

08-04-2011, 02:02 PM

I too cower my head in shame when I hear this. It's like they are dying to have a catchphrase of their own. No good.I, too, hate the "Work ta-doooo" thing. It's just terrible.

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 02:04 PM

I, too, hate the "Work ta-doooo" thing. It's just terrible.

It is pretty awful. I feel the same about "Don't stop now boys!"

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 02:18 PM

It is pretty awful. I feel the same about "Don't stop now boys!"
see, now i like "Don't stop now boys" as long as its not forced like after 2 singles. I think it is great during a good rally, but when used in the wrong situation it is as bad as singing "Na Na Na Na" at AJ Burnett last night as he left with a 6 run lead!

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 02:23 PM

see, now i like "Don't stop now boys" as long as its not forced like after 2 singles. I think it is great during a good rally, but when used in the wrong situation it is as bad as singing "Na Na Na Na" at AJ Burnett last night as he left with a 6 run lead!

I just loathe over the top homerism period. It would be more tolerable if Hawk brought something else to the table, but he doesn't. He pouts, complains about umpires, spouts tired and often incorrect cliches, name drops ad nauseum, repeats stories no one wants to hear, isn't in the least bit insightful, and is overall infuriating to me in every single capacity. I purchase the MLB package just so I can listen to opposing broadcasts, which is a shame since I'm a big Steve Stone fan.

Goose

08-04-2011, 02:27 PM

see, now i like "Don't stop now boys" as long as its not forced like after 2 singles. I think it is great during a good rally, but when used in the wrong situation it is as bad as singing "Na Na Na Na" at AJ Burnett last night as he left with a 6 run lead!

That's the thing...that's what I mean by he has become a cartoon of himself. A good announcer would know when to bring out the catch phrases...Hawk just does them ALL THE TIME in predictable situations...sometimes not even appropriate situations. Take, for example, his "You can put it on the board, YES!" Fine, as hoakie as that is, fine. A couple of years ago, he came up with "You can put it on the board, YES! YES!!" Since then, it is always a double YES! Why? I dont know. While I dont remeber the first time it happened, I am willing to bet that the first time, it was a HUGE home run that warrented a double YES! Now every time? Really? Why? Cant stand him. Not at all!

As for the other person who said that is you hate Hawk, then you love Farmer, or hate Farmer love Hawk...Nope. I hate them both with a passion (DJ too). There is no either or on my part.

DirtySox

08-04-2011, 02:34 PM

As for the other person who said that is you hate Hawk, then you love Farmer, or hate Farmer love Hawk...Nope. I hate them both with a passion (DJ too). There is no either or on my part.

Fair enough. I just seem to often encounter many who love one and loathe the other.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 02:37 PM

I too cower my head in shame when I hear this. It's like they are dying to have a catchphrase of their own. No good. And Farmer is just so boring with his "Up steps Alex Rios, Rios has 6 homers, the next one will be his 7th." No **** Sherlock! And the stories about 79th & Francisco, St. Thomas More & St. Rita.....ENOUGH ALREADY!

To me, all of that stuff comes a far second behind their actual ability to call play-by-play in a major league baseball game and translate what is happening on the field quickly and effectively to the listener who can't see what's happening. Neither guy can do that. I can give specific examples, but there's no reason to waste time. A ball gets hit to a certain place on the field, and sometimes you're not told for several minutes if it fell for a hit, was caught on a fly or if it was thrown to first for an out.

It's like they need someone to come into the office and listen to a game with Brooks to teach him what it should sound like and what Farmer and DJ need to learn how to do to sound like halfway competent professional broadcasters. There have been times when they've gone to a commercial after the inning ended without explaining how the third out happened.

Brian26

08-04-2011, 02:43 PM

I'm curious as to the proportion of people who dislike Farmer think that Hawk is an acceptable announcer.

Hawk's schtick, to me, is more acceptable because it's a television broadcast and I can see with my own eyes what's happening. For that matter, I don't need Stone's matter-of-fact talking-down-to-the-fans bs either. Neither guy bothers me to the extent where I can't enjoy the broadcast.

Farmer's job is more crucial, as I'm relying on him to explain what's happening on the field through his own eyes. The stories and completely unfunny jokes are acceptable baggage, as long as he can call the game. He can't do that. Neither can DJ.

Rooney and Farmer were great, and I enjoyed their banter along with a great game call. But, hey, I'm glad WSCR was able to sign Mike North for 16 million dollars so that Chris Singleton could be baptized by fire. Now, generally I'll just turn the radio off if I'm in the car.

Fens, I think Dan Orsillo is alright, BUT Jerry Remy is painful to the ears of many a non-Beantowner!
He reminds me of the claymation announcer of MTV's old Celebrity Deathmatch show.

asindc

08-04-2011, 02:51 PM

Hawk's schtick, to me, is more acceptable because it's a television broadcast and I can see with my own eyes what's happening. For that matter, I don't need Stone's matter-of-fact talking-down-to-the-fans bs either. Neither guy bothers me to the extent where I can't enjoy the broadcast.

Farmer's job is more crucial, as I'm relying on him to explain what's happening on the field through his own eyes. The stories and completely unfunny jokes are acceptable baggage, as long as he can call the game. He can't do that. Neither can DJ.

Rooney and Farmer were great, and I enjoyed their banter along with a great game call. But, hey, I'm glad WSCR was able to sign Mike North for 16 million dollars so that Chris Singleton could be baptized by fire. Now, generally I'll just turn the radio off if I'm in the car.

Fenway I appreciate your candor and love for the "true" sox, but I feel you shouldn't be speaking for us (even if apparently "accurate". If you sign it fenway it gets ignored and if you sign your real name, which it appears you have enough cache that you are known, it still doesn't matter. You are part of the system plain and simple, and you come off badly on boards like this. You mean well, but if you want to accomplish something get a forum for the real sox fans instead of trying to speak for us.

Fenway- I completely agree with your post- you're a knowledgable fan who brings a great perspective-

eriqjaffe

08-04-2011, 02:53 PM

Rooney and Farmer were great, and I enjoyed their banter along with a great game call.This. Those two really worked well together. Farmer's a much better side man and analyst.

Every once in a while I'll listen to a Cardinals game through Gameday Audio, and I think of how lucky they are to have him.

If every announcer just tried to be more like Vin Scully, I think the broadcast landscape would be a far, far better place.

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 02:53 PM

Fenway- I completely agree with your post- you're a knowledgable fan who brings a great perspective-

Agree 1000%!

Fenway

08-04-2011, 02:54 PM

Fens, I think Dan Orsillo is alright, BUT Jerry Remy is painful to the ears of many a non-Beantowner!
He reminds me of the claymation announcer of MTV's old Celebrity Deathmatch show.

Remy actually has a Providence accent which is half New York - half Boston

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 02:54 PM

Remy actually has a Providence accent which is half New York - half Boston

100% Annoying to this midwesterner!:tongue:

kittle42

08-04-2011, 02:55 PM

Every once in a while I'll listen to a Cardinals game through Gameday Audio, and I think of how lucky they are to have him.

And now he's stuck with the Cardinals' version of Harry Caray.

bridgeportcopper

08-04-2011, 02:57 PM

And now he's stuck with the Cardinals' version of Harry Caray.
Yeah, he and the Royals' Denny Matthews are very bad as well!

DSpivack

08-04-2011, 03:00 PM

And now he's stuck with the Cardinals' version of Harry Caray.

But there was a Cardinals version of Harry Caray. He just got, uhh, run out of town. :tongue:

Lip Man 1

08-04-2011, 03:17 PM

This and that:

Brooks doesn't have as much to do with the day to day situation with the Sox announcers. He's more involved in the hiring process. Bob Grim is the one who sits down daily with them to go over things.

You need to send it to Brooks. My sense is he will read it, he's a stand up guy.

Brian: Agree 100% on your comments about a weekly show. No excuse not to have something like that...none. I mean it's bound to draw better and make a bigger impact than something like oh, "Discover Wisconsin."

Lip

daveeym

08-04-2011, 04:08 PM

Huh? :scratch:

Completely incoherent statement here. You just said in the first two sentences that you have more important things to do with your money and go on to list how expensive parking and nachos are (making me believe finances are an issue in your family), but in the last sentence you say "very little to do with the economy."

Also, seriously, it's against the rules to have a mortgage and children and also go to Sox games? Seriously, that's the choice we have to make? Couldn't you, like, if money is that tight, skip the beer at the game and perhaps bag some snacks up? I love the gun-to-the-head attitude you hear like this on sports radio too. "Well, Danny, after we park, buy four beers, hotdogs and candy for the kids, souvenier helmets, more beer, the 50/50 Split Sox raffle and then get more beer, it costs $500 to go to a game! I'm done!" :thumbsup: American Dream.
No it has to do with it's my money not yours. I want to spend it and partake in a game in how I feel fit. Not to "support" the team in anyway YOU see fit.
If I'm going to go to a game now I'm going to drive based on logistics. That's 23 bucks out the window there. I'm not 23 and single and have a mortgage now and don't live in the city any longer. A weekend package is no longer a reasonable expense especially with the product being put out. The el is not an option and If i'm going to go I'm going to want to partake in the peanuts and crackerjack and churros and everything else. But wait, I've got to go to stubhub or pay over face from the team for a game far from sold out. You've decided it's the economy and have been beating that drum in multiple threads, but from me and anyone else who you've questioned our fandom and personal financial status a big **** YOU from me.

Harry Potter

08-04-2011, 04:11 PM

Going back to the topic of tickets, has anyone had problems listing parking passes for sale on StubHub lately? They FINALLY introduced this feature this year but lately, I haven't been able to list the parking passes when I post my tickets for sale.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 04:15 PM

I completely disagree. I very much appreciate Fenway taking time to write that email to Brooks. Maybe it will inspire me to write something as well.
In response to yours and others responses. Sorry if I came off harsh on fenway but my understanding is the guy rolls through town frequently and can roll up to Brooks on a first name basis, and if not a "hey, you're that crazy red sox fan camera man, what's up dude" way. So he's known to brooks in some manner and regardless of his white sox connection is a red sox fan.

kittle42

08-04-2011, 04:36 PM

But wait, I've got to go to stubhub or pay over face from the team for a game far from sold out.

You can get tickets on stubhub for under half face. Good tickets. For pretty much every game. That is what Brian was referring to.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 04:40 PM

You can get tickets on stubhub for under half face. Good tickets. For pretty much every game. That is what Brian was referring to.And that's why this team is stupid, has to cut payroll and is blowing smoke up our asses with the dynamic pricing. There's nothing dynamic about it.

Fenway

08-04-2011, 05:24 PM

In response to yours and others responses. Sorry if I came off harsh on fenway but my understanding is the guy rolls through town frequently and can roll up to Brooks on a first name basis, and if not a "hey, you're that crazy red sox fan camera man, what's up dude" way. So he's known to brooks in some manner and regardless of his white sox connection is a red sox fan.

When I first game to Chicago I lived a lot closer to Wrigley than Comiskey - but Comiskey or County Stadium were my choices of ballparks. I never liked Wrigley from day 1.

kevingrt

08-04-2011, 06:41 PM

And that's why this team is stupid, has to cut payroll and is blowing smoke up our asses with the dynamic pricing. There's nothing dynamic about it.

I thought dynamic pricing meant playing more to the market. Instead the tickets only go up. Now I completely understand why the Sox would never sell tickets below face; we have gone over this before. But why have the tickets go up in price when no one is buying the tickets in the first place? No sense.

daveeym

08-04-2011, 06:48 PM

When I first game to Chicago I lived a lot closer to Wrigley than Comiskey - but Comiskey or County Stadium were my choices of ballparks. I never liked Wrigley from day 1.Fenway, I'm not questioning your white sox cred, I'm just saying you're in the "industry" and an "outsider." While at times I feel you can spam this board the fact is you're not a "typical" white sox fan. While Brooks is more responsive and listens better I just don't feel that a connected non-white sox fan is the best spokesperson for us even if you have brooks "ear" and wrote a well thought out letter. Again, I always think you mean well but the fact is you are yawkey way through and through when it comes down to it.

Noneck

08-04-2011, 06:56 PM

I read all these posts about what is bad about what goes on in concessions etc and I wonder to myself, how many major decisions does Brooks Boyer really make? Regarding concessions he is probably is told what should be brought in the coffers and has to pick according. I bet a lot more money is brought in by selling a slice of frozen pizza and a domestic beer than a chicago pizza and a foreign beer. Many other good suggestions have been made here but all would hurt the immediate bottom line. Is it good to create a fan base and keep a fan base? I think so but that is something this ownership never seemed to grasp.

Red Barchetta

08-04-2011, 07:11 PM

When you win, attendance goes up while TV and radio ratings improve. It all ties in together.

It's a tough economic environment and many people simply can't afford to piss away $$$ on a poor product. Plus, for the SOX organization to decide to charge more to see certain teams was a very poor decision that backfired.

Fan friendly does not mean creating a NBA-like sideshow environment. Put a quality product on the field with quality players who demonstrate a sense of pride and desire to win regardless of their salary or past performance. If management cannot make that happen, get new management!

soxfan1965

08-04-2011, 07:26 PM

To help the crowd forget the woes on the field, allow a new version of Andy the Clown to rove the ballpark, to cheer the Sox on with a loud, long call, and on occasion light up the red nose. Sure was fun having him around.

russ99

08-04-2011, 07:31 PM

To help the crowd forget the woes on the field, allow a new version of Andy the Clown to rove the ballpark, to cheer the Sox on with a loud, long call, and on occasion light up the red nose. Sure was fun having him around.

POTW! :gulp:

Gooooooooo Whiiiiiiiite Soooooox!!!

Gavin

08-04-2011, 08:09 PM

You guys ever think that the White Sox organization places little leverage on what a fringe minority group like WSI posters think about the way they run things?

CWS44

08-04-2011, 08:21 PM

Going back to the topic of tickets, has anyone had problems listing parking passes for sale on StubHub lately? They FINALLY introduced this feature this year but lately, I haven't been able to list the parking passes when I post my tickets for sale.

I sold tickets to two games this week, at a loss, and was not able to list the parking passes. I was able to include parking about a month ago.

Regarding attendance, I agree, it's winning that will gets fans in the park, not louder music and/or more sideshows.

captain54

08-04-2011, 08:25 PM

You guys ever think that the White Sox organization places little leverage on what a fringe minority group like WSI posters think about the way they run things?

the great majority of the "fringe minority" of WSI are paying customers...

but yes I concur that the organization so far is placing little leverage
on the fact that the majority of their paying customers are not happy with the product on the field

dickallen15

08-04-2011, 08:32 PM

The Sox gave the fans the green seats they needed to sit in. They built them the bar/restaurant they needed to get drunk in before and after games. People still don't show up. There are 3 reasons. The economy sucks. White Sox prices are high and the team is about as interesting to fans as playing is to Alex Rios, and they are especially bad at home.

ChiSoxGirl

08-04-2011, 09:25 PM

I, too, have XM, but I don't listen to much of other teams' radio guys. What I do know, however, is that Farmer and DJ are embarrassing to listen too. Every time DJ says something like "They got a lotta WOOOORK TA-DOOOOO", I cower my head in shame.

They are pathetic (Hawk is not omitted from this as well), and an embarrassment. Just because they are "better" (in your opinion) than other radio guys does not excuse them for being so bad.

I too cower my head in shame when I hear this. It's like they are dying to have a catchphrase of their own. No good. And Farmer is just so boring with his "Up steps Alex Rios, Rios has 6 homers, the next one will be his 7th." No **** Sherlock! And the stories about 79th & Francisco, St. Thomas More & St. Rita.....ENOUGH ALREADY!

I'm a frequent Hawk hater, but I will give him his props for some recent statements. He's been questioning Ozzie and management lately and I approve. Has been critical of Rios not being benched, and of Morel not receiving adequate playing time. It's somewhat subliminal, but it's quite obvious what he's inferring.

tony1972

08-04-2011, 10:02 PM

This is wonderful. Well done. The San Fran analogy is superb. That kind of decision making is so far from reality for this White Sox organization.

We can honestly say, since we have all witnessed it, that the question "What would a White Sox player have to do to be benched for a significant amount of time?" has been answered. The answer, we have seen, is not hitting in the .150's into the first week of August, barely into double digits in the home run category. The answer, is not hitting barely .200, with less than 10 steals and 10 home runs after hitting 20+ and stealing 30+ the previous year, not to mention dogging it in the field.

So what does that leave us with? Your letter.

I agree..and that's why even when the White Sox have a good team on paper..I still think they won't win a division. They don't make the adjustments that winning teams do. An analogy is I buy two cars. A new one for $15,000 and a used one for $3000.00. It turns out the new ones has many defects..is dangerous to drive, etc. The used one turns out to be dependable. Winning teams like the Giants will go with the dependable cheaper car..b/c it's dependable. The White Sox mentality has always been 'I'll drive the bad car b/c I paid more $$ for it". Yes..you spent a lot on Dunn..Rios, etc..so I can see playing them.

But that money has already been spent and you are cutting your revenue when you continue to play players that are not performing..less wins = less attendance = less revenue. But we'll continue to play the highly paid, underperforming b/c man..we spent the money on them. Yes..we'll get 100,000..200,000 less fans due to our stubborness..but who cares?

hi im skot

08-04-2011, 11:29 PM

Fenway, I'm not questioning your white sox cred, I'm just saying you're in the "industry" and an "outsider." While at times I feel you can spam this board the fact is you're not a "typical" white sox fan. While Brooks is more responsive and listens better I just don't feel that a connected non-white sox fan is the best spokesperson for us even if you have brooks "ear" and wrote a well thought out letter. Again, I always think you mean well but the fact is you are yawkey way through and through when it comes down to it.

You guys ever think that the White Sox organization places little leverage on what a fringe minority group like WSI posters think about the way they run things?

As long as the organization is in the black, they don't care what anyone thinks. Very few organizations take into account what their fans want when making decisions, it'd be great to be a fan of one of them.

ShooterMcGavin

08-04-2011, 11:46 PM

I'm doing the only thing I can do...dropping my season tickets.

Are you 100% certain you're dropping your season tickets? I hope you reconsider. I think 2012 will be a special time on the South Side.

captain54

08-04-2011, 11:52 PM

As long as the organization is in the black, they don't care what anyone thinks. Very few organizations take into account what their fans want when making decisions, it'd be great to be a fan of one of them.

JR and the organization would love to win another WS, but in the meantime they realize how hard it is to get there, so keeping the team at least "competitive' I believe, is a standard that JR's mentioned they hold to like it's supposed to bring people to the park in droves...

Forbes has the White Sox franchise as increasingly gaining value year after year, as well as revenues increasing... offset the higher payroll
and they are not broke by any stretch of the imagination.

chisoxfanatic

08-04-2011, 11:56 PM

Are you 100% certain you're dropping your season tickets? I hope you reconsider. I think 2012 will be a special time on the South Side.
I hope you're right, but I'd like to see signs of it THIS season. Right now, they're not giving us fans any reason for hope for next season.

Marqhead

08-05-2011, 12:05 AM

JR and the organization would love to win another WS, but in the meantime they realize how hard it is to get there, so keeping the team at least "competitive' I believe, is a standard that JR's mentioned they hold to like it's supposed to bring people to the park in droves...

Forbes has the White Sox franchise as increasingly gaining value year after year, as well as revenues increasing... offset the higher payroll
and they are not broke by any stretch of the imagination.

I'm going to guess the priorities stack up in this order:

#1 Profit
#2 Win a WS

They've spent the money to field a competitive ballclub, and for that I commend them. It's the reason I was willing to shell out a decent amount of money for a chunk of tickets this year. But money isn't the only thing, winning is an organizational philosophy, one the Sox don't have right now. A lot of changes would have to be made for them to get there. JR is loyal, and I commend hi for that, but at a certain point (especially in sports) you have to trade in loyalty for people who can create a winning culture in the club, from the minors on up. If this doesn't happen soon the Sox will be in trouble in the future, and the smarter fans will realize it. They will have trouble drawing for the foreseeable future unless these changes are made.

TomBradley72

08-05-2011, 12:13 AM

I think 2012 will be a special time on the South Side.

Why?

Nellie_Fox

08-05-2011, 12:20 AM

The people in charge decided long ago that underachivement, mediocrity, and failed expectations are all not only acceptable, but are the cornerstones of the franchise right now.Yeah, that's it. That's why they have a record payroll this year, because after 2005 they said "**** it, that wasn't all that much fun. Let's just see how much money we can spend without winning anything, and we can enjoy watching the fans suffer." I'm certain that's the thinking in Sox management. :rolleyes:

...I would guess Majority of Sox Fans can’t stand Hawk anymore And I would bet that you're wrong. I would bet that the vast majority of fans who aren't rabid enough to be posting on WSI don't really pay all that much attention to who the announcer is. In fact, I'll bet that the majority of WSI posters aren't in the "can't stand him" category, either. It's just that those who don't like him bitch about him constantly, and those that are okay with him don't see any reason to constantly state that they're okay with him.

If every announcer just tried to be more like Vin Scully, I think the broadcast landscape would be a far, far better place.Scully puts me to sleep. I've never understood the Scully worship.

kittle42

08-05-2011, 12:55 AM

Are you 100% certain you're dropping your season tickets? I hope you reconsider. I think 2012 will be a special time on the South Side.

It's Gonna Happen.

keloms

08-05-2011, 01:47 AM

It's Gonna Happen.

I'm in the same boat. I was || close to dropping them after last year, but, the re-signing of PK, AJ, and bringing Dunn on board got me to re-up.

At this point, there's nothing solid to look forward to for next yr (you know the dumping are continuing in the off season) and there's just no way to justify dropping another five figures next year.

mrfourni

08-05-2011, 08:38 AM

I'm in the same boat. I was || close to dropping them after last year, but, the re-signing of PK, AJ, and bringing Dunn on board got me to re-up.

At this point, there's nothing solid to look forward to for next yr (you know the dumping are continuing in the off season) and there's just no way to justify dropping another five figures next year.

I dropped season tickets this year, and it was the best decision I ever made. Outside of opening day, there hasn't been a game I wanted to go to that I wasn't able to find tickets for less than what season ticket holders pay for the same seats.

I figure, that with the money I'm saving by not keeping my tickets every year, I can afford to pay a premium for playoff tickets if they ever make it again. Or I can just sign up for a season ticket package for the following year which guarantees playoff tickets.

Fenway

08-05-2011, 09:05 AM

To help the crowd forget the woes on the field, allow a new version of Andy the Clown to rove the ballpark, to cheer the Sox on with a loud, long call, and on occasion light up the red nose. Sure was fun having him around.

NSH8UHtMuck

Scottiehaswheels

08-05-2011, 09:53 AM

****. At this point, run the all in ads in the upcoming opponents cities to draw folks to watch their team win. Show "highlights" of Rios doggin it, Dunn whiffing, AJ not throwing out runners, nobody getting a bunt down, etc.

salty99

08-05-2011, 11:32 AM

Did anyone actually ever get a response from Brooks about this?

Lip Man 1

08-05-2011, 11:41 AM

I have not.

Lip

Fenway

08-05-2011, 11:48 AM

Did anyone actually ever get a response from Brooks about this?

Not yet

SI1020

08-05-2011, 12:18 PM

It's Gonna Happen. I love the irony.

LITTLE NELL

08-05-2011, 12:24 PM

Yeah, that's it. That's why they have a record payroll this year, because after 2005 they said "**** it, that wasn't all that much fun. Let's just see how much money we can spend without winning anything, and we can enjoy watching the fans suffer." I'm certain that's the thinking in Sox management. :rolleyes:

And I would bet that you're wrong. I would bet that the vast majority of fans who aren't rabid enough to be posting on WSI don't really pay all that much attention to who the announcer is. In fact, I'll bet that the majority of WSI posters aren't in the "can't stand him" category, either. It's just that those who don't like him bitch about him constantly, and those that are okay with him don't see any reason to constantly state that they're okay with him.

Scully puts me to sleep. I've never understood the Scully worship.

Me too, every time I visit my son in Orange County Ca. and watch a Dodger game I say the samething to myself. He just drones on and on and does not have a color man which makes the droning worse.

JC456

08-05-2011, 12:31 PM

The letter posted in this thread hit the issues right on the money. As I posted earlier, I went to Wednesday's Yankee's game and the park was full of NY fans who acted like they owned the place and after the debacle that was the first inning, they pretty much took over the park and by the end of the game the yankee fans were mostly all that were in the park. I refused to leave the park with them thinking they got one on the Sox fans. That's just the way I think.

The park is Chicago's White Sox park and we should all value that fact. I certainly don't mind if the opponent's fans want to watch their team at the Cell, however, I take exception when they try to make it their's. And then the players play like they don't give a darn. One player of note is Alex Rios, whose whole body languange tells me he'd prefer to be somewhere else but center field playing baseball at the Cell. And Wednesday night he played that way as well. Four plays that assisted NY's win that night. If Rios never sees the grass in Center again, would be just fine with this fan! I'm Dunn with him.

hi im skot

08-05-2011, 12:56 PM

The letter posted in this thread hit the issues right on the money. As I posted earlier, I went to Wednesday's Yankee's game and the park was full of NY fans who acted like they owned the place and after the debacle that was the first inning, they pretty much took over the park and by the end of the game the yankee fans were mostly all that were in the park. I refused to leave the park with them thinking they got one on the Sox fans. That's just the way I think.

The park is Chicago's White Sox park and we should all value that fact. I certainly don't mind if the opponent's fans want to watch their team at the Cell, however, I take exception when they try to make it their's. And then the players play like they don't give a darn. One player of note is Alex Rios, whose whole body languange tells me he'd prefer to be somewhere else but center field playing baseball at the Cell. And Wednesday night he played that way as well. Four plays that assisted NY's win that night. If Rios never sees the grass in Center again, would be just fine with this fan! I'm Dunn with him.

I dropped season tickets this year, and it was the best decision I ever made. Outside of opening day, there hasn't been a game I wanted to go to that I wasn't able to find tickets for less than what season ticket holders pay for the same seats.

I figure, that with the money I'm saving by not keeping my tickets every year, I can afford to pay a premium for playoff tickets if they ever make it again. Or I can just sign up for a season ticket package for the following year which guarantees playoff tickets.

I think the bolded is the main reason season ticket holders will choose to drop their season tickets for 2012. I wonder how that will affect the White Sox.

34 Inch Stick

08-08-2011, 03:00 PM

I know it is only tangential to the game but I think Boyer's own department could do more to making attendance attractive with give away days. I don't go to games specifically because of a give away but I am more inclined to attend on a good give away day.

chisoxfanatic

08-08-2011, 03:05 PM

I know it is only tangential to the game but I think Boyer's own department could do more to making attendance attractive with give away days. I don't go to games specifically because of a give away but I am more inclined to attend on a good give away day.
I don't mind the decrease in giveaway days, but I REALLY would appreciate it if they brought back Lady's Nights. They used to have those on Thursday nights for $1. I'd definitely go to more games if they brought that promotion back.

Fenway

08-08-2011, 03:10 PM

I don't mind the decrease in giveaway days, but I REALLY would appreciate it if they brought back Lady's Nights. They used to have those on Thursday nights for $1. I'd definitely go to more games if they brought that promotion back.

I was in KC 2 years ago when they had this event during a Red Sox series

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/ticketing/girlsnightout.jsp

I know in Massachusetts the courts ruled 'ladies nights' were illegal.

chisoxfanatic

08-08-2011, 03:14 PM

I was in KC 2 years ago when they had this event during a Red Sox series

http://kansascity.royals.mlb.com/kc/ticketing/girlsnightout.jsp

I know in Massachusetts the courts ruled 'ladies nights' were illegal.
That sounds like such a great promotion. I know I'd definitely go to a game if the Sox had something like that, provided I were available.

Fenway

08-08-2011, 03:26 PM

That sounds like such a great promotion. I know I'd definitely go to a game if the Sox had something like that, provided I were available.

They had the entire concourse in the outfield set up with things like this

One thing I noticed the Angels were doing this season as part of their 50th anniversary is having a different former Angel throw out the first pitch before the game.

From what I've seen, they have a nice variety ranging from guys who were superstars to guys who were just solid major leaguers. I would love to see the Sox have something like that.

Also, when I was in Pittsburgh, they have Manny Sanguillen signing autographs at his barbecue stand on the outfield pavilion. I know in Baltimore and Milwaukee they also have former players signing autographs at their food stands.

My point is that the Sox should embrace their alumni more and have them more accessible and visible to the fans. I would like to meet some of the guys from the past and get an autograph or just talk baseball with them. I think that would be pretty cool.

Lip Man 1

08-08-2011, 04:15 PM

Meteor:

That's an excellent point. The Sox do now have an alumni association (started by Roland Hemond, Bill Melton and Billy Pierce) and they do of course have some former players (Melton, May, Kittle, Pierce, Fisk, Minoso, Skowron, Pall and Thomas) as part of the community relations division but they don't have alumni come out on a regular basis.

Bob Grim by the way, not Brooks is the one to e-mail or speak with along those lines.

The Sox do try to make alumni part of the Sox Fest activities but I think they can do a better job of getting these guys involved on a more regular basis. I know a lot of them when they come to Chicago, ask the Sox for tickets and attend games...maybe they could be worked into some sort of pregame stuff if they wish.

--------------------------

On another note heard back from Brooks today regarding the thread topic. It appears he got a LOT of e-mails on this.

Here is what I wrote him, followed by his reply.

Brooks:

Read your comments to Gonzo in the newspaper tonight.

Look you know me and I appreciate what you do, but the bottom line is simple. You want fans in the stands? Win a lot of games.

I can't tell you how angry, frustrated, disgusted the fans are at White Sox Interactive. Fair or unfair, right or wrong they can not believe that after five years of mediocrity nothing has happened to change either the front office, the field manager or the coaching staff.

The key word among the fans at the site (feel free to read the comments yourself) is ACCOUNTABILITY. The general perception is that there is none, that the organization has gotten satisfied with the status quo and that it doesn't matter what happens... there are no consequences to anybody.

I realize that I'm speaking in general terms. I can get into specifics if you want, I can send you a fuller e-mail or give you a call.

Again I mean nothing personal towards you or anybody in the front office...you folks have been very, very good to me and by proxy towards the site but I'm telling you, Sox fans want their pound of flesh at the end of this season, things have not gone well to say the least since July 2006 and they are tired of it.

Lip

Lip,

Thanks for the note. I am working my way through the emails reacting to the column and responding to fans one by one.

It has been a frustrating year for everyone involved. But, we are still in it. You are right, we need to win a lot of games. We will continue to work to earn the trust of our fans. We all want to win too.

Again, thanks for the heads up and sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you.

All the best,

Brooks

Lamp81

08-08-2011, 10:43 PM

They also have a lot of former players still employed with the team, in other capacities:

I couldn't make it through this entire thread but was a little surprised at the hits Farmer and D.J. took. I actually like these two guys. I don't think either one is a "great" broadcaster but they seem to have good chemistry and D.J. is actually funny, especially in contrast to Farmer's straight man routine.

I couldn't care less if our broadcasters are unabashed homers. If I want non-partisanship, I'll listen to a national broadcast. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I like the feeling that "we're all in it together" when I'm watching a game or listening to the radio.

SI1020

08-09-2011, 03:54 PM

I suggest everyone read Scorecasting. Icing the kicker is a joke and why always punt on fourth down? Other than that and maybe a few other "revelations" I am underwhelmed. I don't like Freakanomics either.

kittle42

08-09-2011, 03:58 PM

Icing the kicker is a joke and why always punt on fourth down? Other than that and maybe a few other "revelations" I am underwhelmed. I don't like Freakanomics either.

I think my favorite thing about it was how many gamblers' fallacies, like the significance (or, better stated, the complete lack of significance) of "hot and cold streaks," etc. carry over to sports fandom.

asindc

08-09-2011, 04:06 PM

Icing the kicker is a joke and why always punt on fourth down? Other than that and maybe a few other "revelations" I am underwhelmed. I don't like Freakanomics either.

It has been known for years that teams that don't punt when in the opponent's territory fare far better than those that do. I think the point of discussions in the book is that fact, along with many others, are not widely known, or at least have not been mathematically studied (such as the expanding strike zone for 3-0 counts).

Lip Man 1

08-09-2011, 05:10 PM

Sports Illustrated made mention last year about an Arkansas high school coach who only punted two or three times the entire season. As I remember they quoted him as saying he ran numbers, checked stats, looked at other teams and came up with the idea.

He had a really good success rate with not punting.

Lip

Ranger

08-10-2011, 03:32 AM

Hawk's schtick, to me, is more acceptable because it's a television broadcast and I can see with my own eyes what's happening. For that matter, I don't need Stone's matter-of-fact talking-down-to-the-fans bs either. Neither guy bothers me to the extent where I can't enjoy the broadcast.

Farmer's job is more crucial, as I'm relying on him to explain what's happening on the field through his own eyes. The stories and completely unfunny jokes are acceptable baggage, as long as he can call the game. He can't do that. Neither can DJ.

Rooney and Farmer were great, and I enjoyed their banter along with a great game call. But, hey, I'm glad WSCR was able to sign Mike North for 16 million dollars so that Chris Singleton could be baptized by fire. Now, generally I'll just turn the radio off if I'm in the car.

Just for accuracy, Singleton's hiring had absolutely nothing to do with Mike North's contract (which was almost up, by the way, and was never even close to being worth $16 million). North was gone in 2008. Also, the team -- not the station -- makes the final call on the play-by-play announcer and analyst.

SI1020

08-10-2011, 08:11 AM

Just for accuracy, Singleton's hiring had absolutely nothing to do with Mike North's contract (which was almost up, by the way, and was never even close to being worth $16 million). North was gone in 2008. Also, the team -- not the station -- makes the final call on the play-by-play announcer and analyst. So losing Rooney was OK with them?

Fenway

08-10-2011, 09:12 AM

So losing Rooney was OK with them?

Rooney was offered his DREAM job in his home state.

The man was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame while still with the White Sox.

http://www.mosportshalloffame.com/inductee_detail/John+Rooney/180

kaufsox

08-10-2011, 09:18 AM

Rooney was offered his DREAM job in his home state.

The man was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame while still with the White Sox.

http://www.mosportshalloffame.com/inductee_detail/John+Rooney/180

yep, sadly, I don't think backing up a Brinks truck to John would have kept him around. I just wish they would get a pro voice back in the booth, with Farmer would be fine. It worked out well before.

Fenway

08-10-2011, 09:52 AM

yep, sadly, I don't think backing up a Brinks truck to John would have kept him around. I just wish they would get a pro voice back in the booth, with Farmer would be fine. It worked out well before.

I can't think of ANY other MLB team that has all ex-players doing both radio and TV.

AAA Pawtucket has better radio than the White Sox... and every main Pawsox play by play man in the past 20 years has adcanced to the show.
(Dave Wills partner in Tampa is a former Pawtucket announcer)

God, the PawSox love is ****ing pathetic. I dislike Farmer and DJ as much as anyone else, but worse than a AAA team? Completely and utterly idiotic for the lone reason that nobody in their right mind listens to AAA baseball on the radio.

Fenway

08-10-2011, 10:26 AM

God, the PawSox love is ****ing pathetic. I dislike Farmer and DJ as much as anyone else, but worse than a AAA team? Completely and utterly idiotic for the lone reason that nobody in their right mind listens to AAA baseball on the radio.

Before you knock the broadcast - LISTEN to the talent.

A radio team is supposed to sell the game to the fans but Farmer sounds like he is bored half the time.

AAA radio is where the next generation of annoucers train hoping to advance.

The White Sox ownership for some reason have a long history of hiring ex-ballplayers to announce. They fired Joe McConnell to hire Del Crandall for example. Notice how the Bulls on the other hand have always had a pro do play-by-play.

(and obviously somebody is listening to AAA radio as they have built a network besides the Providence flagship)

SI1020

08-10-2011, 10:44 AM

Rooney was offered his DREAM job in his home state.

The man was inducted into the Missouri Sports Hall of Fame while still with the White Sox.

http://www.mosportshalloffame.com/inductee_detail/John+Rooney/180 I'm just a lowly fan that has very little insider information. Oh I get a tidbit or a bone thrown at me sometimes because of past connections. I was not able unfortunately to attend the parade and celebrations after the WS win in 05. Rooney looked to me like an angry, uncomfortable and unhappy man on the podium. Whether I'm correct in my assessment or it means a damn thing about his departure to St. Louis I have no way of knowing. I had heard that he was unhappy about the state of negotiations concerning his contract before he left Chicago. WMVP had been replaced by the Score and again I don't know if that had any affect on the final outcome either. I do know that Rooney was a big favorite of mine, that I thought he and Farmer complimented each other, and that both on radio and TV the Sox are not now doing as well as they should.

Fenway

08-10-2011, 10:52 AM

If Rooney had gone to NY or Minneapolis etc then you know it it was a contract issue....St. Louis muddles the situation.

I know he grew up closer to Kansas City but the Cards are so huge in Missouri he may have grown up rooting for St. Louis. The Royals job will not open up until Denny Matthews retires or dies. Denny has been with the Royals since day 1.

I'm just a lowly fan that has very little insider information. Oh I get a tidbit or a bone thrown at me sometimes because of past connections. I was not able unfortunately to attend the parade and celebrations after the WS win in 05. Rooney looked to me like an angry, uncomfortable and unhappy man on the podium. Whether I'm correct in my assessment or it means a damn thing about his departure to St. Louis I have no way of knowing. I had heard that he was unhappy about the state of negotiations concerning his contract before he left Chicago. WMVP had been replaced by the Score and again I don't know if that had any affect on the final outcome either. I do know that Rooney was a big favorite of mine, that I thought he and Farmer complimented each other, and that both on radio and TV the Sox are not now doing as well as they should.

SI1020

08-10-2011, 04:07 PM

If Rooney had gone to NY or Minneapolis etc then you know it it was a contract issue....St. Louis muddles the situation.

I know he grew up closer to Kansas City but the Cards are so huge in Missouri he may have grown up rooting for St. Louis. The Royals job will not open up until Denny Matthews retires or dies. Denny has been with the Royals since day 1. I remembered correctly. It was a contract issue.

Just for accuracy, Singleton's hiring had absolutely nothing to do with Mike North's contract (which was almost up, by the way, and was never even close to being worth $16 million). North was gone in 2008. Also, the team -- not the station -- makes the final call on the play-by-play announcer and analyst.

Wrong.

WSCR couldn't low-balled John Rooney out of town. You don't low-ball a guy who's been with the organization for 17 years and considered as one of the best radio broadcasters in the business.

This is one of the discussion points that the White Sox have blatantly lied about since it happened. Boyer's gone back and forth in the media with different stories. Even though announcers have always been hired by the teams, when the Sox radio deal switched from MVP to the Score, the Score for some reason negotiated Farmer and Rooney's contracts. Farmer signed, but they low-balled Rooney. Meanwhile, Mike North was making $1.5 million a year to do the crappy morning show there since 2004. So WSCR couldn't afford to pay Rooney and the Sox couldn't step in and try to make things right, so we're stuck with Chris Singleton or Tommy John for the 2006 season. Everyone knows how that flaming bag of turd turned out. Subsequently at Soxfest, Boyer's switched his story several times (Sox have complete control of the broadcasters, WSCR had complete negotiating control but Sox got final say, Sox hire the broadcasters and Score has no say. Well, which is it?).

Rooney probably didn't mind going back to Missouri, but he'd been in Chicago for 17 years and raised his daughters here, so I'm guessing he would have at least considered staying if he was treated with a respectful offer. There was no decision to be made though. The Sox let a garbage radio station dictate who the announcers were going to be to sell their product over the airwaves.

And now we're stuck with having SOME WORK TO DOOOOO.

/soapbox

Fenway

08-10-2011, 10:10 PM

If somebody wants to go back to Labor Day of 2005 - I posted that Rooney was telling people at Fenway he was going to St. Louis.

WSCR got the contract by default as JR was not happy with WMVP over the Opening Day interview that became a Bulls sidebar.

AZChiSoxFan

08-11-2011, 02:34 PM

Me too, every time I visit my son in Orange County Ca. and watch a Dodger game I say the samething to myself. He just drones on and on and does not have a color man which makes the droning worse.

Different strokes for different folks. I love Vin and will be very sad when he hangs it up.

SI1020

08-11-2011, 03:27 PM

If somebody wants to go back to Labor Day of 2005 - I posted that Rooney was telling people at Fenway he was going to St. Louis.

WSCR got the contract by default as JR was not happy with WMVP over the Opening Day interview that became a Bulls sidebar. No more bites of the apple or something like that. So the Chairman is mad, the Score gets the contract, lowballs Rooney, the Sox don't stick up for him and he's gone. Another warm and happy story.

I like DJ, and I think that his stories are just kind of oddball enough to help pass the time in what can be a very looooong game. I prefer him to the Steve Stone & Ed Farmer radio pairing, which was more like 2 old pitchers commiserating -- it was tough to relate.

Regarding Rooney: Yeah, he was an amazing broadcaster and I haven't heard anyone better since he left the Sox. My understanding was that the switch to WSCR was for a better AM signal, and that Rooney wanted more money BUT WSCR was hamstrung with the Mike North morning "show" (sic) so they brought in a completely green Chris Singleton. I got the impression that Farmio didn't like Singleton, Singleton was over-matched and the broadcasts were just awkward.

soxfanreggie

08-11-2011, 11:33 PM

And now we're stuck with having SOME WORK TO DOOOOO.

I hear that line and wonder, "Who actually enjoys when he says that?"

I know a few people actually enjoy them, but I just don't view them as a "professional" duo. They just don't have it: skills or chemistry. Farmer has the skills to be the #2, but definitely not to lead the broadcast.

Fenway

08-17-2011, 08:25 AM

Perhaps the White Sox marketing people should take a hard, hard look at how the Brewers do things.

Like The Cell, Miller Park is a few miles from downtown but they do not charge and arm and a leg for parking.

Tickets - they charge extra for the Cubs, St. Louis and Twins but the prices are not over the top either

http://milwaukee.brewers.mlb.com/mil/ticketing/seating_pricing.jsp

Give the Brewers credit - they are in the smallest market in MLB, but they are drawing very well and have developed a good team.

Honestly I think the White Sox should just forget the Cubs exist and market their own hard working fans.

Bunch of hooey that they double the parking for marquee games.

doublem23

08-17-2011, 08:33 AM

Bunch of hooey that they double the parking for marquee games.

:rolleyes:

How dare baseball teams treat this like its a business

Fenway

08-17-2011, 08:34 AM

Bunch of hooey that they double the parking for marquee games.

Still cheaper than 35th St.

LITTLE NELL

08-17-2011, 08:52 AM

:rolleyes:

How dare baseball teams treat this like its a business

Is it good business, or in the long run, bad business?
Somewhere along the line this madness has to stop and I think Sox fans this year are saying enough is enough.
Greed comes into the picture also by the players and owners.
I know I'm a lot older than most of the WSI members and I guess I've just seen too many drastic changes in my almost 60 years of following the White Sox. I know I will never see the day of 1.25 general admiission seats but if you told me back in 1959 that fans would be paying the amounts they are paying now to see MLB and the other major sports I would have called the men in the white coats to come and take you away.

kittle42

08-17-2011, 10:24 AM

I know I will never see the day of 1.25 general admiission seats but if you told me back in 1959 that fans would be paying the amounts they are paying now to see MLB and the other major sports I would have called the men in the white coats to come and take you away.

And milk costs $4 a gallon and movies are $12!

And do you know what a cup of coffee costs these days? What is this frappucino, anyway?

kevingrt

08-17-2011, 10:29 AM

Is it good business, or in the long run, bad business?
Somewhere along the line this madness has to stop and I think Sox fans this year are saying enough is enough.
Greed comes into the picture also by the players and owners.
I know I'm a lot older than most of the WSI members and I guess I've just seen too many drastic changes in my almost 60 years of following the White Sox. I know I will never see the day of 1.25 general admiission seats but if you told me back in 1959 that fans would be paying the amounts they are paying now to see MLB and the other major sports I would have called the men in the white coats to come and take you away.

I can tell you the only reason I didn't go to the game last night was because I did not want to spend $50 face value on a lower level ticket. Let alone $30 on an upper level ticket.

skobabe8

08-17-2011, 11:13 AM

I can tell you the only reason I didn't go to the game last night was because I did not want to spend $50 face value on a lower level ticket. Let alone $30 on an upper level ticket.

That's also the main thing that has kept me away this summer. And I don't pay for parking.

SI1020

08-17-2011, 11:19 AM

And milk costs $4 a gallon and movies are $12!

And do you know what a cup of coffee costs these days? What is this frappucino, anyway? When you factor in for inflation that 1.25 GA ticket LN mentioned would be about 10 bucks or so in today's money. Baseball and all other sports for that matter are way ahead of the inflation curve. I fully realize it hasn't hurt attendance one damn bit down through the years. Are we reaching the maximum that the customer will bear? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

When you factor in for inflation that 1.25 GA ticket LN mentioned would be about 10 bucks or so in today's money. Baseball and all other sports for that matter are way ahead of the inflation curve. I fully realize it hasn't hurt attendance one damn bit down through the years. Are we reaching the maximum that the customer will bear? I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Athletes' salaries have also skyrocketed more than anyone elses' salaries, which is sad considering they have the least important "job" out there!

I don't see it that way. The passion of Sox fans is a weakness, to the club's bottom line if they put a crappy product on the field. Marketing to fans with unconditional love, like Cubs fans or ND fans is easy. Marketing to Sox fans is tough -- you have to actually win, or look like you're trying. The White Sox have a high performance elasticity of demand with respect to attendance. The Cubs (really Wrigley Field) and ND is low. So the Sox have a much harder time and have constant pressure to put out a good product on the field. It's makes it worse with a Dunn and Rios who not only drain resources with their fat contracts, but don't seem to be fan favorites either, watching them is like eating bad sausage. Thome is known as a nice guy wherever he goes and a fan favorite. Thankfully, the operating theme of the Sox late in the season is "the kids can play". Lillebridge, Flowers, and De Aza and some other young guys are a breath of fresh air, keeping the Sox in the race despite the duds and bad injuries. If they do have a giveaway promotion night, let it be the Brent Lillebridge bobblehead night:smile:. If that costs too much, give away an octopus (e.g. Henry of the Wiggles)toy, the many arms represent his versitility.

PatK

08-17-2011, 04:00 PM

No more bites of the apple or something like that. So the Chairman is mad, the Score gets the contract, lowballs Rooney, the Sox don't stick up for him and he's gone. Another warm and happy story.

You also have to remember that at that back then, ESPN was trouncing the score in the ratings and adverstising dollars.

Fenway

08-18-2011, 09:28 AM

Got a reply from Brooks last night

So sorry for the late response.

Thanks so much for note and thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and send your thoughts.

Clearly, there are pricing issues that we are studying and will continue to study. As you understand, there is a fine balance between pricing and payroll. More than you could probably imagine, I am aware of the positives and negatives of Stubhub and the secondary market.

Again, thanks for the note and thoughtsÖÖ.I really appreciate it. Hopefully, we can continue to win series and put ourselves in position to play the BoSox or Yankees in October.

All the best,

Brooks

kevingrt

08-18-2011, 12:30 PM

Got a reply from Brooks last night

So sorry for the late response.

Thanks so much for note and thoughts. I appreciate you taking the time to sit down and send your thoughts.

Clearly, there are pricing issues that we are studying and will continue to study. As you understand, there is a fine balance between pricing and payroll. More than you could probably imagine, I am aware of the positives and negatives of Stubhub and the secondary market.

Again, thanks for the note and thoughtsÖÖ.I really appreciate it. Hopefully, we can continue to win series and put ourselves in position to play the BoSox or Yankees in October.

All the best,

Brooks

I would love to be on that team that is "studying" the "pricing issues."

Domeshot17

08-18-2011, 12:30 PM

Brooks actually did respond to my email, and we had a good conversation. He seemed to miss my point entirely in the first email, but after some explanation on both our ends, the dialogue was good. He seems to understand that this year there is a large disconnect with the fans and he understands there has been what feels like a lot of Tension between The Team and Ozzie and the fans.

He didn't seem like he wanted to touch the fact that the Guillen family has made the white sox a bit of a joke, but he also did point a good fact in general, that and the team play/decisions are well beyond his control.

Overall, I kind of think Brooks is in a bad spot at times. When the manager of the team tells the fans to not come out, what can he do?

salty99

08-18-2011, 12:37 PM

This dynamic ticket pricing is a joke and I think that definitely is in Brooks control.

Lip Man 1

08-18-2011, 12:39 PM

I know Brooks got hit with a lot of angry e-mails from fans after the Ozzie comments about "getting drunk and pissing on statues..."

What would be fascinating to know is what is Brooks' relationship with JR.

By that I mean is it a close enough one that if he wanted to, could he go to JR and say, "your field manager is insulting the fan base, I'm hearing about it and folks are staying away in part because of it..." If so what would JR's reaction be?

Lip

GlassSox

08-18-2011, 12:54 PM

Someone please wake me up if Brooks ever really states anything of significance in a response. He has the political answers down to a science. :sleep:

Fenway

08-18-2011, 12:56 PM

I would love to be on that team that is "studying" the "pricing issues."

Pricing = Payroll

The Catch 22 here is simple - JR was willing to spend the money but as of now it appears to have been on the wrong players.

Nobody thought Dunn would be a complete bust but...

JR has brought a lot of this on himself - his stance of not drafting a prospect because of Boras has hurt who exactly? Not Boras, who from many reports spends more on scouting than most MLB teams. Nobody can say he doesn't do his homework.

asindc

08-18-2011, 01:12 PM

Pricing = Payroll

The Catch 22 here is simple - JR was willing to spend the money but as of now it appears to have been on the wrong players.

Nobody thought Dunn would be a complete bust but...

JR has brought a lot of this on himself - his stance of not drafting a prospect because of Boras has hurt who exactly? Not Boras, who from many reports spends more on scouting than most MLB teams. Nobody can say he doesn't do his homework.

Your point about Bora$s has some merit, but I do understand why JR would not want to deal with him. So many teams have gotten burned dealing with him that JR has decided it is not worth the headache. You have to remember that it came to a head with the Ordonez debacle. No matter how you slice it, that was some shady dealing by Bora$s.

Fenway

08-18-2011, 01:28 PM

Your point about Bora$s has some merit, but I do understand why JR would not want to deal with him. So many teams have gotten burned dealing with him that JR has decided it is not worth the headache. You have to remember that it came to a head with the Ordonez debacle. No matter how you slice it, that was some shady dealing by Bora$s.

Problem is if Scott is locking up the best prospects, teams have no choice.

Scott may have the cheapest website of all time

http://www.borascorp.com/

One retired scout told me the White Sox make a big mistake with their farm system by having it top heavy with warm weather cities. A lot of these high school and college kids have never played in 'cold weather' - they certainly have no excuse for not being in the Midwest League. (certainly hasn't hurt the Twins being in Appleton, Wis )

asindc

08-18-2011, 01:33 PM

Problem is if Scott is locking up the best prospects, teams have no choice.

Scott may have the cheapest website of all time

http://www.borascorp.com/

One retired scout told me the White Sox make a big mistake with their farm system by having it top heavy with warm weather cities. A lot of these high school and college kids have never played in 'cold weather' - they certainly have no excuse for not being in the Midwest League. (certainly hasn't hurt the Twins being in Appleton, Wis )

I certainly agree with this. We had a Single-A affiliate in my hometown of South Bend during the early 90s, but it is now an Arizona farm team, of all teams. I think that might be a factor in our early season woes. Some people might casually dismiss it, but for players who grew up in the South and played there their entires lives, 33-degree early-April weather in Chicago is no joke. I think it is also a factor in why some FAs don't give the Sox a long look.

Fenway

08-18-2011, 01:38 PM

I certainly agree with this. We had a Single-A affiliate in my hometown of South Bend during the early 90s, but it is now an Arizona farm team, of all teams. I think that might be a factor in our early season woes. Some people might casually dismiss it, but for players who grew up in the South and played there their entires lives, 33-degree early-April weather in Chicago is no joke. I think it is also a factor in why some FAs don't give the Sox a long look.

Boston splits it up

Low A is in South Carolina - High A Virginia - but Double A is in MAINE (night games in May are no fun there ) and AAA in Rhode Island.

doublem23

08-18-2011, 02:44 PM

Someone please wake me up if Brooks ever really states anything of significance in a response. He has the political answers down to a science. :sleep:

Well no ****, the guy probably gets emailed by psychos all the time who, despite no formal training or experience whatsoever, all believe that they are 10x smarter and could do his job 10x better than he.

I'm amazed he even bothers to respond to this nonsense.

DirtySox

08-18-2011, 02:46 PM

Well no ****, the guy probably gets emailed by psychos all the time who, despite no formal training or experience whatsoever, all believe that they are 10x smarter and could do his job 10x better than he.

I'm amazed he even bothers to respond to this nonsense.

Well stated.

CLUBHOUSE KID

08-18-2011, 03:07 PM

Well no ****, the guy probably gets emailed by psychos all the time who, despite no formal training or experience whatsoever, all believe that they are 10x smarter and could do his job 10x better than he.

I'm amazed he even bothers to respond to this nonsense.

Sometimes it isn't nonsense. The good thing is that of all the times I have spoken to him (in person) he was very nice and when he saw me around the park he greeted me in a good way. I have zero against him, I just think the dynamic pricing needs to be tweaked.

Fenway

08-18-2011, 03:16 PM

Brooks will only get worried when people STOP sending him e-mails

doublem23

08-18-2011, 03:19 PM

Brooks will only get worried when people STOP sending him e-mails

Aw, it's cute that it looks like you believed him, too

Fenway

08-18-2011, 03:24 PM

Aw, it's cute that it looks like you believed him, too

Of course he is not going to say anything 'on the record'.

It is what he says to JR when asked 'Where is everybody?' that matters.

GlassSox

08-18-2011, 06:30 PM

Of course he is not going to say anything 'on the record'.

It is what he says to JR when asked 'Where is everybody?' that matters.

Yes and I am sure that we will never know what he says to JR

Fenway

08-19-2011, 09:51 AM

I had one more exchange with Brooks and it had to do with a conversation I had at lunch yesterday with someone who has done advertising for sports teams.

I think his idea for the White Sox is a grand slam

A friend here has a suggestion for next year's ad campaign - he was in the biz but retired.

Instead of putting the focus on the players ( as that can backfire ) instead do something on the lines of

I'M A SOX FAN ( could work as a slogan )

Shoot spots of fans of all ages from 8-80+ on what the White Sox mean to them....

Like you, I hope we have a scheduled game on September 30thÖÖand win it.

All the best,

Brooks

GoGoCrede

08-19-2011, 10:51 AM

They have something similar to that right now on the el trains. Cubs fan stories on one side, Sox on the other.

GlassSox

08-19-2011, 11:18 AM

They have something similar to that right now on the el trains. Cubs fan stories on one side, Sox on the other.

Yes we saw that last weekend. They are from BP and you can send BP an email with your statement and it might be posted some where in the city.

Fenway

08-19-2011, 11:21 AM

They have something similar to that right now on the el trains. Cubs fan stories on one side, Sox on the other.

I knew the CTA did this

7jEZrzDt6sM

Hitmen77

08-23-2011, 09:46 PM

I don't mind the decrease in giveaway days, but I REALLY would appreciate it if they brought back Lady's Nights. They used to have those on Thursday nights for $1. I'd definitely go to more games if they brought that promotion back.

Join fellow female White Sox fans for Ladies Night! Massage therapists and nail technicians will be available on the main concourse and specially priced tickets (up to half off!) can be purchased by following the instructions below. Additionally, the first 10,000 fans to enter the ballpark will receive a Roger Bossard Bobblehead.