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Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Its surprising how far some Pacers fan will go to be critical of Lance. I guess if you don't like a guy, then you really don't like him and nothing is gonna change that. We should all be glad that "Bad Lance" didn't show his ugly face yet again last night and lose the Pacers another game, like he has SO many times this year.

I saw Lance steal two rebounds from his own teammate and pointed it out. I love Lance and think that is nothing. In fact I would rather him steal rebounds from his own teammates if he is going to roll down the court and own the Nets. Lance has bad plays. But his good play is overshadowing those bad plays.

Criticism does not equal hate. Hating on people who have a few criticisms equals hate

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Bird never paid his dues either and I am thankful he was coaching the Pacers. With that said Isaiah Thomas was the worst coach ever, next to Obrien of course. Obrien had no excuse. Either way, Kidd probably should of sit out a year or two at least or like you said paid his dues as an assistant.

Bird had lots of front office experience including scouting and working with players in Boston after he stopped playing. Even Isaiah had years of non-playing experience (though little of it indicated he would have success at coaching). Kidd stepped straight from playing to coaching without even being a player coach.

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BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

I had one of my front teeth broken in half during a pickup game in college, but it was painless to the point where other people noticed before I did. We had just gotten there, so I didn't want to leave right away. I lost five straight games and played poorly in all of them.

Ha, sounds like my intermural days at IU. One of my teammates caught an opponent with a nasty (unintentional, just swinging the ball) 'bow. Guy's mouth wouldn't stop bleeding. Forced him out of the game, and to an emergency dentist -- he was pretty tough about it and didn't take it as malicious, we all felt bad for him.

And then his team beat us 4 v 5 in the second half. So we didn't feel as bad.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Bird never paid his dues either and I am thankful he was coaching the Pacers. With that said Isaiah Thomas was the worst coach ever, next to Obrien of course. Obrien had no excuse. Either way, Kidd probably should of sit out a year or two at least or like you said paid his dues as an assistant.

Bird did have some token front office experience. He was also wise enough to recruit two very good assistants and he valued their experience and input, unlike Kidd.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Bird did have some token front office experience. He was also wise enough to recruit two very good assistants and he valued their experience and input, unlike Kidd.

Right, he took time away, recruited great assistants, and actually utilized them and deferred to them as appropriate, rather than ******** on them 6 weeks into the season like this dumbass has done with Lawrence Frank.

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Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Normally a new coach will make mistakes but not create or allow a toxic environment like Kidd has done. It would be best to cut ties with him ASAP and start over in 2014.

As for experience, I know some degree of experience is important, but it shouldn't take much time for an experienced PG to take it on. Mark Jackson is doing great after a rough partial season. But bad coaches are bad coaches. Zeke had years in coaching and was fired by Florida International. Jim O'Brien had many years coaching and was terrible from day one and only got worse. IOW, practice does not make perfect for some "coaches".

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Right, he took time away, recruited great assistants, and actually utilized them and deferred to them as appropriate, rather than ******** on them 6 weeks into the season like this dumbass has done with Lawrence Frank.

Exactly Rick Carlisle was an integral part of birds staff and Bird knew it.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Right, he took time away, recruited great assistants, and actually utilized them and deferred to them as appropriate, rather than ******** on them 6 weeks into the season like this dumbass has done with Lawrence Frank.

It wasn't even six weeks. That relationship blew up when Kidd finally got to coach a regular season game after his DUI suspension. It was only a matter of time. The man has NO sense of accountability (which I believe was mentioned by the guy who writes the opponent scouting report for the Area 55 News You can Take to the Bank ) at all. He truly is the MOST incompetent head coach in NBA history. Yes, more incompetent than the likes of Mike Dunlap and Jim O'Brien.

Exactly Rick Carlisle was an integral part of birds staff and Bird knew it.

Don't discount the late great Dick Harter.

"Nobody wants to play against Tyler Hansbrough NO BODY!" ~ Frank Vogel

"And David put his hand in the bag and took out a stone and slung it. And it struck the Philistine on the head and he fell to the ground. Amen. "
Want your own "Just Say No to Kamen" from @mkroeger pic? http://twitpic.com/a3hmca

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Did anyone see Paul's left handed three pointer one handed that he made after the whistle, I think it was in the 2nd quarter. He definently was in a little bit of a zone.

"It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

I saw Lance steal two rebounds from his own teammate and pointed it out. I love Lance and think that is nothing. In fact I would rather him steal rebounds from his own teammates if he is going to roll down the court and own the Nets. Lance has bad plays. But his good play is overshadowing those bad plays.

Criticism does not equal hate. Hating on people who have a few criticisms equals hate

Hey, I'm not singling you out brother. Not at all. Not anyone specifically, in fact. It can't be denied, though, that there are folks around PD who seem h*llbent on criticizing Lance and I'll call that hating. There are regulars here who have a double standard where Lance is concerned and they actively look for reasons to criticize him. I think it is because they want all the Pacers players to have conservative personalities and Lance is anything but. The fact is, those people are missing the beauty of Lance's all-around game and his tenacity.

Somewhat rabbit-hole, somewhat not...Lance's turnovers probably stand out to people more than those by, for example, West or PG24 because Lance's turnovers are of a different fashion. Lance frequently tries a pass that no one else would whereas PG24's turnovers are frequently related to his handle. The team as a whole has a TO problem. Lance is the only who really gets any grief.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Hey, I'm not singling you out brother. Not at all. Not anyone specifically, in fact. It can't be denied, though, that there are folks around PD who seem h*llbent on criticizing Lance and I'll call that hating. There are regulars here who have a double standard where Lance is concerned and they actively look for reasons to criticize him. I think it is because they want all the Pacers players to have conservative personalities and Lance is anything but. The fact is, those people are missing the beauty of Lance's all-around game and his tenacity.

Somewhat rabbit-hole, somewhat not...Lance's turnovers probably stand out to people more than those by, for example, West or PG24 because Lance's turnovers are of a different fashion. Lance frequently tries a pass that no one else would whereas PG24's turnovers are frequently related to his handle. The team as a whole has a TO problem. Lance is the only who really gets any grief.

I can forgive a turnover more easily if someone just loses a handle then if someone tries a hot dog pass that they shouldn't have tried which results in a turnover. I guess I look at one as an honest mistake and the other as trying to show off and costing the team a possession even though both really cost the team a possession. You can call that hating if you want to but I think turnovers like that deserve more criticism.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Hey, I'm not singling you out brother. Not at all. Not anyone specifically, in fact. It can't be denied, though, that there are folks around PD who seem h*llbent on criticizing Lance and I'll call that hating. There are regulars here who have a double standard where Lance is concerned and they actively look for reasons to criticize him. I think it is because they want all the Pacers players to have conservative personalities and Lance is anything but. The fact is, those people are missing the beauty of Lance's all-around game and his tenacity.

Somewhat rabbit-hole, somewhat not...Lance's turnovers probably stand out to people more than those by, for example, West or PG24 because Lance's turnovers are of a different fashion. Lance frequently tries a pass that no one else would whereas PG24's turnovers are frequently related to his handle. The team as a whole has a TO problem. Lance is the only who really gets any grief.

I honestly have not noticed that. I've noticed (relatively minor) biases against Granger and Hill, but I think everyone is pretty stoked about what Lance is delivering. You just have to take the bad with the good with Lance. Only because I saw it mentioned in your post: I think the most infuriating turnovers on this team are not delivered by Lance--I give that award to David West. Some of his passes are just beyond awful. Still love West, but just calling it like I see it.

Create an ignore list. I know it may seem unneighborly. But you're here to talk about the Pacers, not argue with someone who's just looking for an argument. Most of the regular users on here make use (at least occasionally) of the "Ignore" feature. Just go to "Settings" -> "Edit Ignore List" and add the names.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

Hey, I'm not singling you out brother. Not at all. Not anyone specifically, in fact. It can't be denied, though, that there are folks around PD who seem h*llbent on criticizing Lance and I'll call that hating. There are regulars here who have a double standard where Lance is concerned and they actively look for reasons to criticize him. I think it is because they want all the Pacers players to have conservative personalities and Lance is anything but. The fact is, those people are missing the beauty of Lance's all-around game and his tenacity.

Somewhat rabbit-hole, somewhat not...Lance's turnovers probably stand out to people more than those by, for example, West or PG24 because Lance's turnovers are of a different fashion. Lance frequently tries a pass that no one else would whereas PG24's turnovers are frequently related to his handle. The team as a whole has a TO problem. Lance is the only who really gets any grief.

IDK. George Hill has been the one getting grief around here lately.

But to your point, Lance is not getting much criticism at all. I say that being a guy who has battled on this board claiming he should start over the beloved Danny Granger. If anything, I'm co-pilot on the Lance Stephenson bandwagon or at least one of them. Yet I don't see what you see dude. Most everyone is backing the kid now.

Re: 12-28-13 Pacers vs Nets Postgame Thread

I can forgive a turnover more easily if someone just loses a handle then if someone tries a hot dog pass that they shouldn't have tried which results in a turnover. I guess I look at one as an honest mistake and the other as trying to show off and costing the team a possession even though both really cost the team a possession. You can call that hating if you want to but I think turnovers like that deserve more criticism.

I tend to look at the big picture. If Lance is getting 10 assists and makes 1 or 2 absolutely idiotic mistakes, he's still winning the game for us. So, rather than more criticism it's about the same afaic if another player gives you 3 assists and mishandles the ball once. Actually, we should favor Lance's performance in this situation.

On top of that, Lance, by making several great plays has the defense on its heels rather than attacking. Kid is adding things to this team that nobody even recognizes.