Peak Energy Saver - Home Energy Pros2016-12-09T15:58:39Zhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/forum/topics/peak-energy-saver?xg_source=activity&id=6069565%3ATopic%3A70711&feed=yes&xn_auth=no4 out of 400K? All 4 are most…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-16:6069565:Comment:1473732014-01-16T22:17:03.651ZBob Blanchettehttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBlanchette
<p>4 out of 400K? All 4 are most likely large industrial customers with 3 phase power. There is absolutely no reason for any residential customer to be concerned about this. I've never seen/heard of any time of PF charge on single phase power.</p>
<p>4 out of 400K? All 4 are most likely large industrial customers with 3 phase power. There is absolutely no reason for any residential customer to be concerned about this. I've never seen/heard of any time of PF charge on single phase power.</p> Well, I work with the conserv…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-16:6069565:Comment:1471942014-01-16T12:36:02.569ZCurt Kinderhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CurtKinder
<p>Well, I work with the conservation guys at a big local electric utility. One of them told me, by way of agreeing that residential power factor correction is a complete scam, that out of their 400,000 (yes - four hundred thousand) electric customers, only FOUR are on power factor billing.</p>
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<p>I imagine those four are large industrial sites, such as paper mills, with access to engineers to evaluate and implement alternatives.</p>
<p>Well, I work with the conservation guys at a big local electric utility. One of them told me, by way of agreeing that residential power factor correction is a complete scam, that out of their 400,000 (yes - four hundred thousand) electric customers, only FOUR are on power factor billing.</p>
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<p>I imagine those four are large industrial sites, such as paper mills, with access to engineers to evaluate and implement alternatives.</p> I like your phrase horsefeath…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-15:6069565:Comment:1472232014-01-15T16:57:53.459ZPlanet Manhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/PlanetMan
<p>I like your phrase horsefeathers though here in the UK we may say rockin' horse dung!.... joking aside though I can only vouch for how industrial 3phase sites are billed here, the US may be different billing. So installing PFC equipment will (a) reduce the Kvar known as the reactive charge (b) potentially reduce the availability or capacity charge and (c) reduce the load on the transformer, the I2R losses or load losses. Potentially also reduce line losses but that will depend where the…</p>
<p>I like your phrase horsefeathers though here in the UK we may say rockin' horse dung!.... joking aside though I can only vouch for how industrial 3phase sites are billed here, the US may be different billing. So installing PFC equipment will (a) reduce the Kvar known as the reactive charge (b) potentially reduce the availability or capacity charge and (c) reduce the load on the transformer, the I2R losses or load losses. Potentially also reduce line losses but that will depend where the capacitors are placed.</p> Horsefeathers!
Improving a bu…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-14:6069565:Comment:1469752014-01-14T12:31:03.972ZCurt Kinderhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CurtKinder
<p>Horsefeathers!</p>
<p>Improving a building or plant's power factor does NOTHING for individual motors. I sincerely hope you are not hawking your views for personal gain.</p>
<p>Horsefeathers!</p>
<p>Improving a building or plant's power factor does NOTHING for individual motors. I sincerely hope you are not hawking your views for personal gain.</p> Unfortuantely that is not the…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-14:6069565:Comment:1470372014-01-14T07:22:28.622ZPlanet Manhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/PlanetMan
<p>Unfortuantely that is not the whole picture. Granted billing is in KW however improving power factor in an industrial/commercial environment will have a saving as motors will now be operating optimally hence be more efficent so last longer with less maintenance.</p>
<p>Because also KVA is closer to KW then any voltage optimisiation equipment will also make more savings.</p>
<p>Unfortuantely that is not the whole picture. Granted billing is in KW however improving power factor in an industrial/commercial environment will have a saving as motors will now be operating optimally hence be more efficent so last longer with less maintenance.</p>
<p>Because also KVA is closer to KW then any voltage optimisiation equipment will also make more savings.</p> Power Factor Correction is ON…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-14:6069565:Comment:1470312014-01-14T03:21:11.712ZCurt Kinderhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/CurtKinder
<p>Power Factor Correction is ONLY worth considering for electricity users who are penalized (billed) for inadequate power factor by the utility. All others are billed for kW, not KVA, so it is a complete waste of money for all others to fall prey to scammers hawking power factor correction devices to homeowners and typical commercial customers.</p>
<p>Power Factor Correction is ONLY worth considering for electricity users who are penalized (billed) for inadequate power factor by the utility. All others are billed for kW, not KVA, so it is a complete waste of money for all others to fall prey to scammers hawking power factor correction devices to homeowners and typical commercial customers.</p> Power factor correction is ol…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2014-01-13:6069565:Comment:1469642014-01-13T21:24:27.264ZPlanet Manhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/PlanetMan
<p>Power factor correction is old, well established technnlogy which is widely used across industry and larger electricity power users. However this technology is used to reduce wasted power measuured as Kvar to bring KVA closer to KW and is not well known industry wide to be used for the above application. Further information can be seen at…</p>
<p>Power factor correction is old, well established technnlogy which is widely used across industry and larger electricity power users. However this technology is used to reduce wasted power measuured as Kvar to bring KVA closer to KW and is not well known industry wide to be used for the above application. Further information can be seen at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.streamline-power.com/power_factor_correction.html" target="_blank">http://www.streamline-power.com/power_factor_correction.html <br/></a>Therefore there would need to be authoritative offical independent research conducted for reliable information.</p> You're welcome Fred. Good luc…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-05-02:6069565:Comment:1157432013-05-02T15:49:53.207ZBob Brunshttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBruns
<p>You're welcome Fred. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>You're welcome Fred. Good luck to you.</p> Thanks Bob. This providing m…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-05-02:6069565:Comment:1158322013-05-02T15:48:35.809ZFred Strattonhttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/FredStratton
<p>Thanks Bob. This providing me a quick uptake on the whole issue...greatly appreciated!</p>
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<p>Thanks Bob. This providing me a quick uptake on the whole issue...greatly appreciated!</p>
<p></p> By residential solar, you mea…tag:homeenergypros.lbl.gov,2013-05-02:6069565:Comment:1160072013-05-02T15:27:31.356ZBob Brunshttp://homeenergypros.lbl.gov/profile/BobBruns
<p>By residential solar, you mean Photo Voltaic I will assume, where the energy from the sun is converted to electric power. The conversion is to DC, direct current, for which power factor is not applicable. There is a second device, called an inverter, which converts the DC to Alternating Current (AC) usually with a power factor of 1.0 so the power can be "net metered" back to the utility at the highest possible tariff. There is one company here in California, named Altira or XET which claims…</p>
<p>By residential solar, you mean Photo Voltaic I will assume, where the energy from the sun is converted to electric power. The conversion is to DC, direct current, for which power factor is not applicable. There is a second device, called an inverter, which converts the DC to Alternating Current (AC) usually with a power factor of 1.0 so the power can be "net metered" back to the utility at the highest possible tariff. There is one company here in California, named Altira or XET which claims a benefit from power factor correction on solar panels. You can read more in the fraud case filed by Googling "XET lawsuit." The assertion is that XET used this scheme to defraud investors of over four million dollars. BTW this issue of Power Factor Correction is not new. It was seen as a huge problem by Thomas Edison, and billing by kWh was solved when Elihu Thomson invented his meter around 1857. Here is a link with a lot more information: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.peakdemandautomation.com/power-factor-correction.html" target="_blank">http://www.peakdemandautomation.com/power-factor-correction.html</a></p>