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Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

Saturday, May 31, 2014
A Georgia toddler has been put into a medically induced coma after he was badly burned by a police "flash bang" grenade that landed in the crib where the boy was sleeping during a drug raid, his mother told ABC News today.

The raid occurred before dawn Wednesday night in Habersham County while the Phonesavanh family was sleeping.

"It was a big flash, a loud bang, a bunch of yelling, and my son screaming," the boy's mom, Alecia Phonesavanh, 27, told ABC News.

First and foremost, I am going to just put it out there right now and say that I do not like the whole "informant" tactic. I don't trust them and I think that only trained LE should be doing this job (infiltrating known drug operations) not a bunch of drug addicted criminals.

Having said that. I'd like to know how long this house was being investigated by LE? Usually cases like these takes months and months of transactions. The family had been living there for 2 months.

It also states that there were no drugs found in the raid, but that a nephew was arrested on drug charges later that day. So, was this arrest connected to the informant's transaction or an entirely different transaction?

My heart goes out to the baby and I can only hope that he makes a full recovery, but I also have to put some blame on the parents for allowing their children to live in a home where they knew something wasn't right. If they knew there was drug activity, they should have been thinking about all the bad situations they could be putting their children in. From drive by shootings to armed robbery.

Do I put some blame on LE? Yes. It seemed like a sloppy investigation all around. And they should be paying for the medical bills.

First and foremost, I am going to just put it out there right now and say that I do not like the whole "informant" tactic. I don't trust them and I think that only trained LE should be doing this job (infiltrating known drug operations) not a bunch of drug addicted criminals.

Having said that. I'd like to know how long this house was being investigated by LE? Usually cases like these takes months and months of transactions. The family had been living there for 2 months.

It also states that there were no drugs found in the raid, but that a nephew was arrested on drug charges later that day. So, was this arrest connected to the informant's transaction or an entirely different transaction?

My heart goes out to the baby and I can only hope that he makes a full recovery, but I also have to put some blame on the parents for allowing their children to live in a home where they knew something wasn't right. If they knew there was drug activity, they should have been thinking about all the bad situations they could be putting their children in. From drive by shootings to armed robbery.

Do I put some blame on LE? Yes. It seemed like a sloppy investigation all around. And they should be paying for the medical bills.

MOO

Well stated. Blame can be directed toward both LE and the parents for putting their child in jeopardy. I believe the mother stated they were going to be moving out of there, however, she obviously didn't get the child out soon enough. No one should have children around drug deals/dealers.

Praying this little boy recovers. It will be a long road and such an unnecessary tragedy.

Sheriff: Informant made drug buy at door of home
No law enforcement officers entered home before raid that severely injured toddler

HABERSHAM COUNTY, Ga. —

Based on Sheriff Joey Terrel’s own statements and information in a search warrant, it appears a confidential informant never entered the home that was raided by a Habersham County swat team hours later.

Sheriff: Informant made drug buy at door of home
No law enforcement officers entered home before raid that severely injured toddler

HABERSHAM COUNTY, Ga. —

Based on Sheriff Joey Terrel’s own statements and information in a search warrant, it appears a confidential informant never entered the home that was raided by a Habersham County swat team hours later.

And when you don't have a lot of money, you might not have a lot of flexibility about when or where to move. Crime and poverty tend to go together. It's nice to say, "Yeah, get your kids out of that environment," but it can't always be done.

Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

First and foremost, I am going to just put it out there right now and say that I do not like the whole "informant" tactic. I don't trust them and I think that only trained LE should be doing this job (infiltrating known drug operations) not a bunch of drug addicted criminals.

Having said that. I'd like to know how long this house was being investigated by LE? Usually cases like these takes months and months of transactions. The family had been living there for 2 months.

It also states that there were no drugs found in the raid, but that a nephew was arrested on drug charges later that day. So, was this arrest connected to the informant's transaction or an entirely different transaction?

My heart goes out to the baby and I can only hope that he makes a full recovery, but I also have to put some blame on the parents for allowing their children to live in a home where they knew something wasn't right. If they knew there was drug activity, they should have been thinking about all the bad situations they could be putting their children in. From drive by shootings to armed robbery.

Do I put some blame on LE? Yes. It seemed like a sloppy investigation all around. And they should be paying for the medical bills.

MOO

While I agree your assessment of informant tactics, I must respectfully disagree with your willingness to assign any blame in this case to the parents of the child so badly injured in this incident. I think there are some things to consider when sharing blame.

Things like the following. Who offered a deal to a drug informant? Who believed the informant? Who failed to verify the details of that informant's claim? Who failed to consider that the informant might be as skilled a liar as many addicts become? Who failed to make sure that this was not an act of revenge, or jealousy, or desperation? Who failed to examine the house to find out who lived there and when they had taken up residence? Who failed to investigate the occupants of the house? Who failed to accurately assess the situation on the ground and alter plans accordingly?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who failed to plan steps LE officers could take to protect the children in that home? Was CPS present to take charge of the children should their parents have been arrested? Who failed to train LE officers to NOT TOSS LIVE AMMUNITION INTO A CRIB? Who approved this team? this raid? this level of violence? Who was playing with weapons as though they were toys? Who directed this pitiful excuse for a drug raid that was actually more like a domestic terrorist attack on babies?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who did the weapons check? Who assigned the weapons? Who permitted the throwing of a grenade into a room of sleeping children? Who handed out the ammunition?

AFAIK, not the parents.

IMO, every person in that team should be held responsible. Every person who approved the operation at every step in its development should be held responsible. The first person into the house who saw there were children present and yet did nothing to stop the operation should be held responsible. The cowboy who knowingly threw a live grenade into a crib with a terrified baby should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The person who led this raid should pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The department that failed in the planning and execution should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. Here, I'm just speculating about what might need to be paid for as the assessment of the baby's injuries continues. The medical bills for hospitals, surgeons, nurses, speech therapists and other specialists just to start with. And, ironically, all the DRUGS that will be required. The rehab therapy bills. The psychological counselling bills. The bills for possible prosthetics needed to replace body part damaged beyond repair by the live grenade tossed into the crib. The damage to the child's hearing and the operations and aids therefore needed. The damage to his sight and the operations and aids therefore needed. The possible damage to the child's brain from the concussions that may have happened and all the therapies that may be required as a result. The special education that may be required. The costs of post-secondary education and further training should also be paid for, because there may be special tutoring or other assistance required as a result of this raid. The ongoing pain therapy for burn and blast victims may also be needed. In fact, the bills not just for the baby's therapy, but for the counselling and medical therapies that will also be needed for the child's parents and other members of the family are also the responsibility of the LE department who put together this raid with this team.

Not the parents.

IMO, the person who came up with the idiotic policy of believing a drug addict without verifying EVERY detail, should be held responsible.

Also, I take issue with your presumption that by having to live in a particular neighbourhood, the parents can be blamed for LE failures and other dangers. However, I do find it interesting that you are equating drive-by shootings (ie. criminal activities) with drug raids (ie. LE business). Variations of this little operation could happen in the best of neighbourhoods, IMO, and the parents would still not be able to control anything about it. All it takes is an addict or a pusher with an ax to grind, with access to a telephone and with the knowledge that giving information to LE about drugs will greatly reduce a potential sentence.

In addition, IMO, the p.r. fallout from this disastrous raid is going to make life a lot more difficult for all the professional, wonderful, dedicated LE officers who are involved in these kind of raids as part of their work. It tarnishes the badge and undermines the respect for officers who endanger their lives going after the top levels of illegal drug networks where a raid of this magnitude might be appropriate. I'm afraid that LE officers on highway patrol, or on the beat--more visible roles in the larger community, are going to have to do a lot of repair work on top of their regular duties.

While I agree your assessment of informant tactics, I must respectfully disagree with your willingness to assign any blame in this case to the parents of the child so badly injured in this incident. I think there are some things to consider when sharing blame.

Things like the following. Who offered a deal to a drug informant? Who believed the informant? Who failed to verify the details of that informant's claim? Who failed to consider that the informant might be as skilled a liar as many addicts become? Who failed to make sure that this was not an act of revenge, or jealousy, or desperation? Who failed to examine the house to find out who lived there and when they had taken up residence? Who failed to investigate the occupants of the house? Who failed to accurately assess the situation on the ground and alter plans accordingly?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who failed to plan steps LE officers could take to protect the children in that home? Was CPS present to take charge of the children should their parents have been arrested? Who failed to train LE officers to NOT TOSS LIVE AMMUNITION INTO A CRIB? Who approved this team? this raid? this level of violence? Who was playing with weapons as though they were toys? Who directed this pitiful excuse for a drug raid that was actually more like a domestic terrorist attack on babies?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who did the weapons check? Who assigned the weapons? Who permitted the throwing of a grenade into a room of sleeping children? Who handed out the ammunition?

AFAIK, not the parents.

IMO, every person in that team should be held responsible. Every person who approved the operation at every step in its development should be held responsible. The first person into the house who saw there were children present and yet did nothing to stop the operation should be held responsible. The cowboy who knowingly threw a live grenade into a crib with a terrified baby should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The person who led this raid should pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The department that failed in the planning and execution should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. Here, I'm just speculating about what might need to be paid for as the assessment of the baby's injuries continues. The medical bills for hospitals, surgeons, nurses, speech therapists and other specialists just to start with. And, ironically, all the DRUGS that will be required. The rehab therapy bills. The psychological counselling bills. The bills for possible prosthetics needed to replace body part damaged beyond repair by the live grenade tossed into the crib. The damage to the child's hearing and the operations and aids therefore needed. The damage to his sight and the operations and aids therefore needed. The possible damage to the child's brain from the concussions that may have happened and all the therapies that may be required as a result. The special education that may be required. The costs of post-secondary education and further training should also be paid for, because there may be special tutoring or other assistance required as a result of this raid. The ongoing pain therapy for burn and blast victims may also be needed. In fact, the bills not just for the baby's therapy, but for the counselling and medical therapies that will also be needed for the child's parents and other members of the family are also the responsibility of the LE department who put together this raid with this team.

Not the parents.

IMO, the person who came up with the idiotic policy of believing a drug addict without verifying EVERY detail, should be held responsible.

Also, I take issue with your presumption that by having to live in a particular neighbourhood, the parents can be blamed for LE failures and other dangers. However, I do find it interesting that you are equating drive-by shootings (ie. criminal activities) with drug raids (ie. LE business). Variations of this little operation could happen in the best of neighbourhoods, IMO, and the parents would still not be able to control anything about it. All it takes is an addict or a pusher with an ax to grind, with access to a telephone and with the knowledge that giving information to LE about drugs will greatly reduce a potential sentence.

In addition, IMO, the p.r. fallout from this disastrous raid is going to make life a lot more difficult for all the professional, wonderful, dedicated LE officers who are involved in these kind of raids as part of their work. It tarnishes the badge and undermines the respect for officers who endanger their lives going after the top levels of illegal drug networks where a raid of this magnitude might be appropriate. I'm afraid that LE officers on highway patrol, or on the beat--more visible roles in the larger community, are going to have to do a lot of repair work on top of their regular duties.

These are just my opinions.

Wendiesan, hitting the "Thank's" button just was not enough! I so agree with what you've said, and Thank You for your post! What the hell are LE throwing grenades into people's homes for anyway?? I hope that all involved in this "raid" are brought up on criminal charges, and they should pay for everything this baby and the family will need. It is very frightening that LE is lobbing grenades into people's homes! The public should be outraged and very concerned!

While I agree your assessment of informant tactics, I must respectfully disagree with your willingness to assign any blame in this case to the parents of the child so badly injured in this incident. I think there are some things to consider when sharing blame.

Things like the following. Who offered a deal to a drug informant? Who believed the informant? Who failed to verify the details of that informant's claim? Who failed to consider that the informant might be as skilled a liar as many addicts become? Who failed to make sure that this was not an act of revenge, or jealousy, or desperation? Who failed to examine the house to find out who lived there and when they had taken up residence? Who failed to investigate the occupants of the house? Who failed to accurately assess the situation on the ground and alter plans accordingly?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who failed to plan steps LE officers could take to protect the children in that home? Was CPS present to take charge of the children should their parents have been arrested? Who failed to train LE officers to NOT TOSS LIVE AMMUNITION INTO A CRIB? Who approved this team? this raid? this level of violence? Who was playing with weapons as though they were toys? Who directed this pitiful excuse for a drug raid that was actually more like a domestic terrorist attack on babies?

AFAIK, not the parents.

Who did the weapons check? Who assigned the weapons? Who permitted the throwing of a grenade into a room of sleeping children? Who handed out the ammunition?

AFAIK, not the parents.

IMO, every person in that team should be held responsible. Every person who approved the operation at every step in its development should be held responsible. The first person into the house who saw there were children present and yet did nothing to stop the operation should be held responsible. The cowboy who knowingly threw a live grenade into a crib with a terrified baby should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The person who led this raid should pay for this for the rest of that child's life. The department that failed in the planning and execution should have to pay for this for the rest of that child's life. Here, I'm just speculating about what might need to be paid for as the assessment of the baby's injuries continues. The medical bills for hospitals, surgeons, nurses, speech therapists and other specialists just to start with. And, ironically, all the DRUGS that will be required. The rehab therapy bills. The psychological counselling bills. The bills for possible prosthetics needed to replace body part damaged beyond repair by the live grenade tossed into the crib. The damage to the child's hearing and the operations and aids therefore needed. The damage to his sight and the operations and aids therefore needed. The possible damage to the child's brain from the concussions that may have happened and all the therapies that may be required as a result. The special education that may be required. The costs of post-secondary education and further training should also be paid for, because there may be special tutoring or other assistance required as a result of this raid. The ongoing pain therapy for burn and blast victims may also be needed. In fact, the bills not just for the baby's therapy, but for the counselling and medical therapies that will also be needed for the child's parents and other members of the family are also the responsibility of the LE department who put together this raid with this team.

Not the parents.

IMO, the person who came up with the idiotic policy of believing a drug addict without verifying EVERY detail, should be held responsible.

Also, I take issue with your presumption that by having to live in a particular neighbourhood, the parents can be blamed for LE failures and other dangers. However, I do find it interesting that you are equating drive-by shootings (ie. criminal activities) with drug raids (ie. LE business). Variations of this little operation could happen in the best of neighbourhoods, IMO, and the parents would still not be able to control anything about it. All it takes is an addict or a pusher with an ax to grind, with access to a telephone and with the knowledge that giving information to LE about drugs will greatly reduce a potential sentence.

In addition, IMO, the p.r. fallout from this disastrous raid is going to make life a lot more difficult for all the professional, wonderful, dedicated LE officers who are involved in these kind of raids as part of their work. It tarnishes the badge and undermines the respect for officers who endanger their lives going after the top levels of illegal drug networks where a raid of this magnitude might be appropriate. I'm afraid that LE officers on highway patrol, or on the beat--more visible roles in the larger community, are going to have to do a lot of repair work on top of their regular duties.

JMO the parents are not to blame. Years ago when I lived in Dayton, Ohio police did a no knock drug raid on a house and shot a man who jumped up with a gun when they kicked down the door. They were wrong. They found no drugs. The poor man was startled and scared. LE later said they had the wrong house.