Waste of time. You are not just asking them to change their opinion on one subject, you are asking them to change their entire mind set. Liberal is a vague term, I prefer "progressive". These folks believe that the government is here to protect us from ourselves and should be involved in every part of our lives. These are the same people that feel it is OK to have "reasonable" school lunch standards that result in kids' sack lunches being searched and confiscated. They see government control as a ways to uplift the greater good. These are the "living document" folks regarding the Constitution. Staunch 2A advocates take the Constitution literally and believe that the government has a much more limited role in our lives.

December 10th, 2012, 01:09 PM

ccw9mm

And here's one hard-to-sidestep wrinkle in the "progressive" logic: Murder and robbery, for example, are already illegal. How naive and/or deluded does a person have to be to actually believe that violent felons are going to give a damn about statutes related to magazine capacity, training requirements, purchase frequency or pretty signs on doors and windows?

December 10th, 2012, 01:18 PM

kapnketel

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccw9mm

And here's one hard-to-sidestep wrinkle in the "progressive" logic: Murder and robbery, for example, are already illegal. How naive and/or deluded does a person have to be to actually believe that violent felons are going to give a damn about statutes related to magazine capacity, training requirements, purchase frequency or pretty signs on doors and windows?

Remember the progressive mindset also is based on a lack of personal responsibility, hence the need for more and more government control. Crime is not the criminals' fault, it is society because it is unjust. They were poor due to an unjust economic system, they came from a home without a father because of society's injustice , etc. They know crime is illegal, but the problem is we need more laws!

December 10th, 2012, 01:26 PM

ccw9mm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kapnketel

Remember the progressive mindset also is based on a lack of personal responsibility, hence the need for more and more government control. Crime is not the criminals' fault ...

I'm that's what makes so many of them livid about Stand Your Ground statutes, too. Personal responsibility's a booger, when you're a BG and all your friends in the legal meat grinder desert you. It just ain't fair. :35:

December 10th, 2012, 01:52 PM

accessbob

The best way to argue this is not to argue but to ask questions. Lots of them. As you ask questions you lead them to an understanding by the questions you ask them. But don't start off with guns right away. First, establish that they have loved ones and that they care about them. Then, using very specific examples, ask them if they would like to stand by and watch their loved ones have bad things happen to them. And just lead on. If, after going down that path, they are not swayed even a bit, then all you can do is just let them be and don't get argumentative about any of it. You have planted a seed for which they can think upon. It may take time, or it may never happen, but your questioning may have really opened them up to reality but their pride can't admit it at the time.

December 10th, 2012, 01:55 PM

ANGLICO

Don't wrestle with a pig. It only gets you dirty, and annoys the pig.

December 10th, 2012, 03:30 PM

Chesafreak

Ask them how they feel about "reasonable restrictions" to their 1st amendment rights, and who should decide what's reasonable. If they are okay with restrictions to their 1st amendment rights, then give up because they are a lost cause.