i added the quote to my post for clarification. i'm sorry, but your ignorance is making me very angry. i'm checking out of this thread before it gets me in trouble.

If your attitude is going to be, "You're all ignorant and I know better than you," instead of "let me explain my position," then by all means please leave. I'm glad you cited your source though, because the Bernanke speech is interesting reading. I'm not convinced by the speech that the Great Depression wouldn't have occurred anyway even without the tightening of monetary policy in the years leading up to the 1929 crash, but even if I were, I would say that the Fed's actions were very responsible. They took action to correct what was perceived as a threat to the US economy, which was the widespread increase of speculative trading on a massive level. That massive speculation did, indeed, lead to huge problems when the bubble finally did burst. I'm not convinced that the Fed pricking that bubble was worse than if the bubble had been allowed to grow until it burst on its own. Either way, the Fed was acting responsibly, not through greed or malice.

On top of that, the Fed being willing to admit where they made mistakes is an act of responsibility in itself.

---------- Post added 2013-02-11 at 03:44 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Mayhem

because getting money out of the process of creating money is the definiton of benefit to a countrys economy/people

really?

You've never seen mutually beneficial trade in your life?

Met the ghost of Stephen Foster at the Hotel Paradise
This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes
Ships are made for sinking, whisky made for drinking
If we were made of cellophane we'd all get stinking drunk much faster...

The Federal Reserve wasn't the first central bank of the United States. That would go to the (yep, they called it this) First Bank of the United States. It came just awhile after the founding of our Constitution. Forged by Founder Alexander Hamilton. Opposed by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison(Though the latter wound up signing in a 2nd Bank of the United States)

will you? please then go ahead, why is it beneficial to the economy/people that a private owned bank is in full control of the money of the country

Because its important that an entity other than the government controls the money supply. If congress or the president controlled the money supply they could theoretically change it at a whim as a re-election tool, or as an attack against the other party. Being controlled by another entity allows for it the FED to be influenced but other parties including the government, but ultimately it tries to make the best decision for the economy, expanding or shrinking the Money Supply to affect liquidity and thus interest rates in the economy.

Also interesting in that speech is how Bernanke points out that the US being on the Gold Standard ended up screwing both the US and every other country on the Gold Standard at the time, while other countries that weren't on the Gold Standard, such as China, were insulated from the Depression.

Met the ghost of Stephen Foster at the Hotel Paradise
This is what I told him as I gazed into his eyes
Ships are made for sinking, whisky made for drinking
If we were made of cellophane we'd all get stinking drunk much faster...

Also interesting in that speech is how Bernanke points out that the US being on the Gold Standard ended up screwing both the US and every other country on the Gold Standard at the time, while other countries that weren't on the Gold Standard, such as China, were insulated from the Depression.

That is because when you money is tied to something you can't easily control the supply/demand for it can royally fuck you over.

Because its important that an entity other than the government controls the money supply. If congress or the president controlled the money supply they could theoretically change it at a whim as a re-election tool, or as an attack against the other party. Being controlled by another entity allows for it the FED to be influenced but other parties including the government, but ultimately it tries to make the best decision for the economy, expanding or shrinking the Money Supply to affect liquidity and thus interest rates in the economy.

so because it is private owned it does what´s best for the public? while government would do the opposite? is this normal in america? i fail to see that this can only be accomplished by a private owned bank...

oh and if controlling the money supply is that big of a deal "they could theoretically change it at a whim as a re-election tool, or as an attack against the other party" doesn´t this make the whole party-system rather irrelevant? i mean why should the owners of the fed give a f about whoever is in congress or in the white house, they have all the cards in their hands

where does this believe that the FED allways does good while government allways does bad come from?

so because it is private owned it does what´s best for the public? while government would do the opposite? is this normal in america? i fail to see that this can only be accomplished by a private owned bank...

In it's charter, the thing that created it, it set it up where it is supposed to do what is best for the USA. The leadership system of the FED do not have a limited time like politicians do so they care what their decisions do, more than a politician which will be gone in 4 years or whatever.

If your attitude is going to be, "You're all ignorant and I know better than you," instead of "let me explain my position," then by all means please leave.

my position is the same as andrew jackson, james madison, thomas jefferson, and charles lindburgh. why should i have to explain myself to you, when everything that needs to be said on the subject has already been said?

and yeah, i think you are ignorant. that's my 2 cents.

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

"Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!" — Andrew Jackson

In it's charter, the thing that created it, it set it up where it is supposed to do what is best for the USA. The leadership system of the FED do not have a limited time like politicians do so they care what their decisions do, more than a politician which will be gone in 4 years or whatever.

aren´t these the same guys that didn´t answer to congress after the last depression? because they aren´t required to even answer questions?

my position is the same as andrew jackson, james madison, thomas jefferson, and charles lindburgh. why should i have to explain myself to you, when everything that needs to be said on the subject has already been said?

and yeah, i think you are ignorant. that's my 2 cents.

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

"Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!" — Andrew Jackson

Like it or not the fractional reserve banking system has led to the United States and developed parts of the world we have today. Banking and investment are a vital part of an economy. If you can't get liquidity how is anybody ever going to start a business or be able to do large scale innovation. Social mobility is practically impossible without a financial sector of an economy.