Basically, I wasn't able to understand the raw...so I got Jordy to summarise it for me. ^^ Thanks, buddy. :hug

Ichigo found the Vaizards to make them teach him how to control his inner hollow. But they didn't do that so easily. So he fights Hikaro to force them into telling him. The other Vaizards discuss the fight. Hiyori then interrups and tells Ichigo they don't care if he joins, and wants to see his powers. Hiyori will fight Ichigo full strength to lure his inner hollow out.

=O

Wow. Will Ichigo turn out just like Naruto did??!? Will the inner demon come out?

his inner demon will come out. he needs it to fight against those who have conquered theirs. and then from there he will learn how to conquer it too.
i predict a chapter of ichigo's training. him getting his butt kicked pretty hard and then getting too weak to use his bankai much. then hollow ichigo will come out at the end of the chapter

Galth

February 16, 2006, 11:32 PM

Yay, Ichigo didn't go of to join the vaizards! ( mr kubo tite played a dirty trick on us readers there ;) ), but perhaps we will see him be forced by Hiruyo-or-whats-her-name-again... Seems like he will perhaps battle the vaizards there until Rukia & co show up and force the vaizards to retreat again... that would mean the timeskip will be diverted!! Cool!

giovanni8787

February 17, 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by いちご
The chapter starts with Ichigo conversing with one of the female Vizards who show reservations about taking Ichigo in, but eventually agrees.

Uryuu's shown in a state of haggardness as he's attacked again and again by Ryuuken. Apparently, they two Ishida's have been at it for about 3 hours now and that he's beginning to lose concentration to the monotony. Ryuuken senses it and tells his son that when they start to reach the 5th hour, some effects will start appearing; this of course, surprises Uryuu. The younger Ishida remembers that usually 15 hours or more was regular in any Quincy training (Not too sure on this point). Ryuuken finds an opening and presses the attack, but Uryuu refuses to stand down.

The scene changes to Urahara who asks Chad to lift his head. Urahara admits Chad as his new student and they (along with Tessai) prepare to start the training immediately. Chad's pretty glad that he now gets to train under Urahara and the panel showing his relieved smile is timed side-by-side with Uryuu's confident smirk.

Last part of the chapter goes back to the Vizard hideout where two unnamed Vizards (a girl and a man) talk to Hirako about Ichigo. Apparently they've flipped a coin as to who gets to train him (doesn't look like it's been revealed, but it's probably Hirako).

Seems like Kaien really used a lot of shortcuts to spell people's names. Maybe the summary isn't as detailed as it usually is. That, and I've noticed that people are still posting other scripts on 2ch (but are getting flamed for it).

Galth

February 17, 2006, 12:55 PM

Where did you get this from? And what happens to to Ichigo to be persuated to join the Vaizards at last?! He doesn't want to at the end of this chapter (215)...

giovanni8787

February 17, 2006, 06:38 PM

it was posted on 2ch

Miso

February 17, 2006, 11:43 PM

Yes... it's a bit strange that he would agree in joining the vaizards now as he has refused so stubbornly earlier.
He might be taken by force. If the contrahent was too strong for him it could have been something like:

Vaizard: Ichi, I'm impressed by your strength, but at the moment, you're not capable of taking me down. Join or Die!
Ichigo: *struggles No!
Fight goes on but Ichi is pwned.
Vaizard: What now? Are you willing to give up your life?
Ichigo: I will join.
:Haha
or something like that....

(Well...I don't believe it too much myself either. It's just to give you an option.)

jabbament

February 18, 2006, 01:30 AM

Hrm, well given how things are going that probably is very close to what's going to happen. They'll probably show Ichigo getting slapped around like the little woman he is, but ultimately he'll get accepted (they wouldn't be showing any of this otherwise).

I personally would like to see him join the Vaizard's for real, and not just for training. I'm not too big of a fan of Soul Society, and I can't stand Aizen and his Hollow's...Vaizards are the lesser of the three evils, so I hope he joins them. I think he'll decide to join temporarily, when he realizes how much he can actually learn from the Vaizards about how to control his powers among other things, and I hope that after some time, he decides to stay with them.

As for Ishida, he's going to regain his powers quickly, then I doubt we'll see him for a while (until the next big fight), in which we'll most likely see a "suprise" entrance with him and his new ultimate mantle (oh, and bow of course).

Chad will start training with Urahara, and he'll learn to materalize more of that armor he has...like, his entire body ('cuz face it, a huge boost like that is the only way he'll ever catch up to Ichigo or anyone at this point in time, and stay a main character in the story).

I just want to know what the next major fight is going to be? Another one of Grimmjaw's exploits? Or do you think we'll get to see Gin or Tousen in action anytime soon? Tousen's insane speech was amusing, and I definatly like him alot more than I did before, but I want to see either him or Gin fight soon. I doubt we'll see much real action for the next few chapter's, probably Ishida's training till he's on the edge of getting his powers back, Ichigo's training to control his powers, and then some of Chad's training. I think they're going to save either Chad or Ishida for a suprise entrance in the next major fight. Hopefully it's Chad with his body completely covered in his armor ready to kick ass. Ishida is of course going to get his new mantle (and bow), but his appearance in the next fight wouldn't really be a suprise.

ryderdm3

February 18, 2006, 11:17 PM

He'll get beaten around until his Hollow comes out and starts kicking ass. At this point they'll subdue the hollow, and accept him into their group. Ichigo will realize if he doesn't join that the next time the Hollow comes out, he will be taken over for good, so he will join them. I think that's all we'll see. If anything else we'll see a quick frame or two of rukia looking for him and realizing what is in store for Ichigo.

Galth

February 19, 2006, 08:20 AM

I do not think we'll see Gin or Tousen in any fight soon, unless it will be some aftermath Tousen vs Grimmjow fight in Hueco Mundo, they're captains, they let the grunts do all the dirty work for them!

jabbament

February 19, 2006, 07:17 PM

Yeah, you're right...but come on, Tousen suddenly got so damned cool...him spouting his insanity and hacking off Grimmjaw's arm and blowing it up. Before, he was this, "IN THE NAME OF JUSTICE, I WILL STOP YOU!" fool, but now he's gone completely off the wall and turned into a character alot of us sick freaks can appreciate.

I'm hoping to see them sooner rather than later. But, my guess about the next major fight is that its going to be Grimmjaw's "revenge" and he's going to go after Ichigo again. Not too much is going to happen next few chapters, just training and plot.

soso

February 20, 2006, 04:59 AM

I dunno, when ichigo usually says he wont or will do somthing he always follows through with it. So, just to get somthing out there, What if. Ichigo gets his ass handed to him by the Vaizards when his father shows up and saves him. Tells him alittle about how hes a shinigami and offers to help him control his hollow. Then ichigo can stay in the same positions he in and still get some training in.
Im not even 10% sure about it happening but I think that his father is going to make his move in the upcoming chapters

Gold Knight

February 20, 2006, 11:58 PM

Just to throw this in, I'm also glad Ichigo didn't go to join the Vaizards. It was pretty cool how he just went to "use" them.

With that said, I think this chapter will actually move away from Ichigo's fight for a while and focus some on Chad and Urahara. We'll see.

Orochimaru-chan

February 22, 2006, 10:56 AM

Although I think Ichigo will be forced to join the Vaizards. They seem to be quite stubborn and wont teach him anything less he joins.

T0FFe3m@n

February 22, 2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by いちご
The chapter starts with Ichigo conversing with one of the female Vizards who show reservations about taking Ichigo in, but eventually agrees.

Uryuu's shown in a state of haggardness as he's attacked again and again by Ryuuken. Apparently, they two Ishida's have been at it for about 3 hours now and that he's beginning to lose concentration to the monotony. Ryuuken senses it and tells his son that when they start to reach the 5th hour, some effects will start appearing; this of course, surprises Uryuu. The younger Ishida remembers that usually 15 hours or more was regular in any Quincy training (Not too sure on this point). Ryuuken finds an opening and presses the attack, but Uryuu refuses to stand down.

The scene changes to Urahara who asks Chad to lift his head. Urahara admits Chad as his new student and they (along with Tessai) prepare to start the training immediately. Chad's pretty glad that he now gets to train under Urahara and the panel showing his relieved smile is timed side-by-side with Uryuu's confident smirk.

Last part of the chapter goes back to the Vizard hideout where two unnamed Vizards (a girl and a man) talk to Hirako about Ichigo. Apparently they've flipped a coin as to who gets to train him (doesn't look like it's been revealed, but it's probably Hirako).

Seems like Kaien really used a lot of shortcuts to spell people's names. Maybe the summary isn't as detailed as it usually is. That, and I've noticed that people are still posting other scripts on 2ch (but are getting flamed for it).

That was last weeks fake spoiler.

lexiefaye

February 22, 2006, 02:05 PM

Next week Ichigo will get owned by a girl. If his hollow does come out Hiyori and HollowIchigo are going to have a nice little chat about how pathetic Ichigo is without him. I wonder how Hiyori will bambozel HollowIchigo to let Ichigo use his powers?

Ichigo can't be forced to completely join the Vaizards because you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink. Yet, after a long time with the Vaizards, Ichigo will likely become much more sympathetic to them and go through some hard decisions about who to favor in his actions. I think ultimately he will do whatever the Vaizards want willingly (not out of loyalty but understanding) as long as his friends are not put in danger by those actions. They might be able to warp Ichigo emotionally and they can make him work with them BUT I have a feeling they won't be able to change the loyalities to his friends deep in his heart. He will never hurt his friends physically or put them in danger, no matter how much the Vaizards mess with him. And don't underestimate Ichigo's conversion abilities as well .... think of his relationship with Uryuu, A Quincy who is supposed to HATE Shinigami but ended up in Soul Society .... he will most likely have quite an influence on the Vaizard's mentalities and any Ichigo influence is obviously going to lean them in the Shinigami & Human directions.

Gold Knight

February 23, 2006, 03:36 AM

Pretty damn good post, lexiefaye. I agree with you 100%.

Ichigo can't be forced to completely join the Vaizards because you can lead a horse to water but you can't force it to drink.

Yepyep.

And don't underestimate Ichigo's conversion abilities as well .... think of his relationship with Uryuu, A Quincy who is supposed to HATE Shinigami but ended up in Soul Society .... he will most likely have quite an influence on the Vaizard's mentalities and any Ichigo influence is obviously going to lean them in the Shinigami & Human directions.

Good point. The Vaizards don't seem like they're that bad to start with...

moridin

February 23, 2006, 11:06 AM

raw o clock

http://rapidshare.de/files/13935562/0008837213.zip.html

fuck yeah!

skeeterb20

February 23, 2006, 11:21 AM

NICE! translations anyone?

Mr. Prince

February 23, 2006, 11:40 AM

cool chapter...

Element

February 23, 2006, 11:51 AM

XD Since I posted in the wrong section with the raw (Still not used to this place) I guess I'll comment here. Or well.. just a pre-raw comment for anyone who hasn't seen it yet:

Daaaaaaamn!

moridin

February 23, 2006, 12:04 PM

hehe, man that was manic :P

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 12:08 PM

Yeah! Wichigo! Poor Hiyori. Got a little more than she bargained for ... and all she was doing was training him!

And it took ALL the vaizards to stop him .... thats some freak going on.

moridin

February 23, 2006, 12:10 PM

I don;t think it actually took all the vaizards to stop him, I just think they are a tight knit bunch and none of them were going to stand around and watch as their comrade got killed so they jumped in. I don;t think it was so much a team effort, rather than all of them thinking of the same thing...well I'll wait for a trans to be sure

Element

February 23, 2006, 12:16 PM

I'm trying to have some courtesy for those who haven't read it, but I can't help myself. =P (And to reply your question from the other forum :p)

It's hard to say how he'll train this side of him. They restrained his base mode easily enough, but for something like Hollow-Ichigo in bankai it's a little iffy. What I'm really wondering is if they're going to let this guy go now knowing how powerful he is and how Kubo will handle the story from here. I'd like to see Ichigo pull an Ishida and turn away from the Shinigami for the remainder of the story until the two factions come together through Urahara or something since he did decide to introduce various Vaizards and they'd probably need slight backgrounds.

No tellin' what will happen now..

Cliffs of Dover

February 23, 2006, 12:18 PM

Hiyori sucked as soon as Wichigo appeared. And he wasn't even in ban kai mode. XP

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 12:26 PM

And he wasn't even in ban kai mode. XP
I didn't even think about that. Damn. Guess they won't let him just "rot and die" now.

I wonder how much Ichigo knows about his hollow side? He obviously can sense that he's powerful and a trying to take him over ... But how well does he know how manaic Hichigo is? I wonder if Ichigo remembers what he does as HollowIchigo or if he is now surprised by the Vaizard's reaction to him?

BTW, his hollow side is probably Hichigo with an "H" like Hiyori and Hirako and Hachan.

Sai

February 23, 2006, 12:28 PM

Hiyori sucked as soon as Wichigo appeared. And he wasn't even in ban kai mode. XP

But then, niether was Hiyori. Hell, from what I can tell, Hiyori hadn't even released her Zanpakutou.

Not to say that "Wichigo" wasn't a threat to her, though--her reaction should be proof enough that he was frighteningly strong.

moridin

February 23, 2006, 12:29 PM

it'll be interesting, he obviously has some awareness that the hollow is/has taken over but we never really learn if he can see whats going on. Hopefully a bit of dialogue in the next chapter or 2 will explain that.

oh lexie if you didn't spy it yet, bakakozou released blood+19

But then, niether was Hiyori. Hell, from what I can tell, Hiyori hadn't even released her Zanpakutou.

yeh, if vaizards can take it to ban kai (and i don;t see why not coming from shinigami origins) then she was only using a fraction of her real power

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 12:32 PM

oh lexie if you didn't spy it yet, bakakozou released blood+19

Moridin ... good to see you ... Missed you at BackupBackupForum: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Backup_Backup_NF/index.php?showtopic=134&st=0&#entry871110

I hadn't caught that! WOOT! Good day indeed ... Thursdays should come around more often!

Cliffs of Dover

February 23, 2006, 12:37 PM

But then, niether was Hiyori. Hell, from what I can tell, Hiyori hadn't even released her Zanpakutou.

Not to say that "Wichigo" wasn't a threat to her, though--her reaction should be proof enough that he was frighteningly strong.

Good point. Maybe she was taken by surprise? She has her hollow under check while Ichigo's is a total lunatic.

Thanks for the heads up moridin.

moridin

February 23, 2006, 12:42 PM

hah damn, I didn;t realise there was a back up forum again :P

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 12:54 PM

My Japanese is pretty poor but in the end pg.18 I'm pretty sure Hiroko asks Hiyori if she has any complaints, then assumes she has none. on pg. 19 He says that they will teach him how to supress his hollows power. the rest is a bit beyond me.

Very cool!

T0FFe3m@n

February 23, 2006, 01:16 PM

Whoa @ Ichigo. That was pretty messed up..

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 02:39 PM

Like anything, it's all about control. Hollow Ichigo might be stronger than Hiyori but HI has no real direction or motivation other than a killing instinct. Its Raw power but it's empty without motivation. So in some ways Hiyori is much better off right now because she can use her full potential - Ichigo might have much more potential because HI is stronger but if he can't tap into it its all wasted power. It's like this:

Hiyori has 50 power points and can use 100% so shes at 50 power
HI has 100 power points but Ichigo can only use 10% so he's at 10 power

The trick is that Ichigo needs to not transform into Hollow Ichigo but use HI's power to transform into a hybrid with Ichigo in mental control, Hichigo.[br]Posted at: February 23, 2006, 10:34:22 AM_________________________________________________
ok, I'll do my best, although its pretty late so i apogise for any goofs..

page1
(various vaizards) "wait up, Hiyori!"

page2
hiyori "what are you so nervous for? You've got that mask so we can call you a vaizard..you can at least bring out your hollow"

hiyori "you nervous, Ichigo? I'm not gonna be as sweet on you as Shinji. Come on, before you get scared, bring out your hollow."

page3
"you.."

page4
hiyori "you're really gonna die.."

page 6

cute girl vaizard "you okay, hachan?"
hachan "not..okay.."

page7

hiyori "stop messing around..don't you get it yet?"

page8

hiyori "i'm telling you not to be scared, Ichigo.."
Ichigo "I ain't scared"
hiyori "I'm gonna tell you something good..bring out your bankai.."
ichigo "shut up!"
hiyori "you get it right? When you fight someone as strong as us, as soon as you bring out your bankai, you're worried you won't be able to control your hollow, right?"
ichigo "i told you to shut it!"

ok, that's the first half - sorry for any mistakes and my utter lack of creativity with it..trust me, Kubo sensei has written it sooo much cooler than that
Yummy. i'll post the 2nd half when it's put up.

venicia777

February 23, 2006, 02:44 PM

lexiefaye you know japanese- that is just great news. finally we get a translator. What a relief. Thanks a lot for this half.

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 02:46 PM

lexiefaye you know japanese- that is good. finally we get a translator. What a relief. Thanks a lot for this half.
I don't know Japanese but 207 from Bleachforum does.

page9

hiyori "?? (baldy? help..can't figure that bit out)
hiyori "man, just looking at you makes me mad! what the hell are you so scared of?"

hiyori "whatever, enough already! If you really don't want to bring it out, then do whatever the hell you like! I don't care if you don't bring out your bankai, or your hollow! I'm gonna kill you and end this right now!"

page10

ichigo to himself "come on, think..how can she still be in control of herself when her hollow comes out? what the hell is up with that mask? she's fighting directly..as much as you can, watch her..if you just think about this you should be able to work it out..that's why i came here!"

page11

hiyori to herself? "he won't do his bankai..he won't bring out his hollow..

(..hmm, something about surrendering a soul..never again..)

page18

hirako "that's enough. no complaints, right, Hiyori?"
" do you understand, Ichigo, about your hollow..it's not something you can suppress with your head or your body..

..you succeeded. You supressed your hollow. You've beaten it right into the core of your soul"

ok! thats it. I'm sure there are tons of mistakes, so anyone feel free to step it and help out!

venicia777

February 23, 2006, 02:56 PM

still danke!!

animefeen

February 23, 2006, 02:56 PM

I didn't even think about that. Damn. Guess they won't let him just "rot and die" now.

I wonder how much Ichigo knows about his hollow side? He obviously can sense that he's powerful and a trying to take him over ... But how well does he know how manaic Hichigo is? I wonder if Ichigo remembers what he does as HollowIchigo or if he is now surprised by the Vaizard's reaction to him?

BTW, his hollow side is probably Hichigo with an "H" like Hiyori and Hirako.

He's been fully aware of what goes on from his training inside of himself as well as his fight with rukia brother if you think back to when the hollow had hints of appearing and the one time he took over ichigo was full aware as well as the hollow is fully aware of what goes on its just the surpression of one another that both are tryna fight over now

T0FFe3m@n

February 23, 2006, 03:11 PM

The last part of that translation has me confused..

"..you succeeded. You supressed your hollow. You've beaten it right into the core of your soul"

Huh? He did what now? :headscratch

moridin

February 23, 2006, 03:13 PM

I suspect its a mistranslation, the guy did say it threw him and that there were probably mistakes. Not gunna complain, he went to the effort to satisy us rabid fans :P

lexiefaye

February 23, 2006, 03:21 PM

Hmm, so Ichigo's problem is that he's already surpressed his hollow so much, that it becomes uncontrolable when it does surface?

I think he was meaning something like you have to use your will that there is nothing you can do with your brain or brawn. not that it was under control but unlike the other times he was able to put the hollow away without pulling his mask off. Pulling the mask off shows that he is trying to use brawns. Looking for a technique shows that he was trying to use brains. Becoming Ichigo again shows that he was able to put his hollow to sleep. That is the control they are talking about right now. They are not talking about fighting just the after math of him becoming ichigo again.

Just some various interpretations of the last part ...

and slightly more accurate translation:

Hirako 「Get the picture now Ichigo? There is no technique to suppress your Hollow. It's not something you can train your mind or body to do, you just have to beat it into your soul and make it a part of your nature.」

I like unimatrixzer0's idea but I still think its a mistranslation, I'm pretty sure someone else in the thread said something about it translating as that they would teach Ichigo to control his hollow

xallisto

February 23, 2006, 04:10 PM

Awesome Chapter, cant really say whats gonna happen from here.

Gold Knight

February 23, 2006, 05:34 PM

Thanks for keeping us updated guys. Mad crazy chapter. Will be cool to see where the Vaizards go with Ichigo from here.

It's nice to have an action-full chapter for a change after the last few chapters filled with dialogue too. Less work for our translators XD

nova_1813

February 23, 2006, 05:47 PM

I wonder what kind of class of hollows are inside the vaizards, imo ichigo has vastroode in him b/c his hollow takes the shape of a human. And vastroodes are supposed to be the shape of humans, which would also explain aizens facination with ichigo and why he wants him dead.

Even though hollow ichigo did not own hiyori in released zanpaktou form what happened to her was still ownage and that expression on her face was priceless.

Translator's Note: The little girl Vizard seems to like adding -ん (-n) to the end of people's names for effect.

--------------- Page 02 ---------------

Hiyori 「・・・What do you think now? It's common knowledge to us that you have a mask, you'll have to cut the crap and crack your Hollow out now. You afraid, Ichigo? No way am I gonna wimp out on you like Shinji, so you better wake that thing up or else・・・」

--------------- Page 03 ---------------

Hiyori 「This・・・」

--------------- Page 04 ---------------

Hiyori 「Will be your last stand.」

--------------- Page 05 ---------------

Bleach c216 - The Suppression of Darkness
Fanning： One who fears an internal power and one who is controlled --- will the difference become clear !?

Hiyori 「You ain't got to be so freakin' scaredy-cat all the time, Ichigo.」
Ichigo 「・・・I'm not afraid.」
Hiyori 「・・・All right, if that's the case, try out your Bankai.」
Ichigo「・・・Shut your trap.」
Hiyori 「Well, the way I see it you're wimping out on me here. I suppose you're afraid that your Hollow will raise hell with your Bankai.」
Ichigo 「・・・I told you to shut the hell up！」

--------------- Page 09 ---------------

Hiyori 「Fool.」

Hiyori 「Make sure you keep a good watch this time. You're always spazzing out at the wrong time; pisses me off. Acting up like this, it's like you prefer cowering in fear. No Bankai, no Hollow, I guess there's only one thing left to do. I'm going to murder you.」

Translator's Note: Hiyori uses the onomatopoeia "biku" which is the sound for muscles twitching, hence the bit about spazzing out.

--------------- Page 10 ---------------

Ichigo （Just wait and think. How's it possible to remain sane with your mask on！？ She fit the mask on her face herself！？ She's takin' you head on, use it to learn something！This is why I came here！）

--------------- Page 11 ---------------

Ichigo （I can't use my Bankai or resort to this Hollow. Doesn't look like my soul can take both stresses at the same time. ）

--------------- Page 12 ---------------

Hollow Ichigo 「Ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhhh」

--------------- Page 15 ---------------

Hiyori 「Gaa・・・！！」

--------------- Page 18 ---------------

Hirako 「・・・So, no complaints right, Hiyori.」

Hiyori 「・・・・・・・・・・・・・・・」

Hirako 「Get the picture now Ichigo? There is no technique to suppress your Hollow, a Shiromono. It's not something you can train your mind or body to do, you just have to beat it into your soul and make it a part of your nature.」

Hirako 「Good job, you've succeeded in freeing your Hollow. Now, we'll help make it a part of you.」

Fanning： Together, the depths of their power reach into the unknown

conceptz

February 23, 2006, 11:47 PM

nothing like seeing a boy choke a girl till she cries. hiyori's expression was priceless!

lexiefaye

February 24, 2006, 12:53 AM

Hey I was re reading the raw and it seems I didnt notice it the first time cause I was too excited looking at the pics. Did she take Ichigo's arm? It looks to me like she just chopped it off completely.

OMG. Didn't notice that but hot damn his left arm IS gone the rest of the chapter! No wonder Hollow Ichigo one hand strangled Hiyori. I would have too under the circumstances!

*edit post ... found his arm on page 15 - sigh of relief*

RockLee

February 24, 2006, 01:04 AM

No guys, if you look closely, his left arm is still there. Look at the page where he chokes her. In the top panel, to the left, his left arm is drawn back, like when you run.

Ichigo owned her, flat out.

nova_1813

February 24, 2006, 01:51 AM

"There is no technique to suppress your Hollow, a Shiromono. It's not something you can train your mind or body to do, you just have to beat it into your soul and make it a part of your nature."

Wow that is an insane line looks like the vaizards are right ichigo really has no choice but to join them. This should also mean ichigo will start training, and come up with new moves.

kamo_kun

February 24, 2006, 10:49 AM

I don't think he's gonna join them unless they convince him of their good alignment.

Hell, ichigo's been nobody's bitch until now and he's definitely not gonna be just for power -not even to survive.

And they (the vaizards) won't prove to be as strong as we initially thought

-apparently Hollow Ichigo is on a whole different level from everyone we've seen so far, at least in terms of raw strength, although there's no reason to believe his techniques won't be invincible too-

or as knowledgeable as Ichigo thought

-clearly Ichigo has resisted his hollow much more than any of them or than any of them could expect possible-

so my opinion is that he's gonna take some hints, perhaps spar a little with their leader (I always felt that this was Hirako -but what do I know)

and unless a chapter or two establishes their good intentions (a flashback maybe), I see Ichigo leaving them also (as the shinigami before), or at least that's what I would like to happen.

venicia777

February 24, 2006, 03:50 PM

Djudge's translation on the last page make things soo clear. Well, if ichigo learns how to fight and beat his hollow into himself without using the vizards help- then fine he wouldnt need any help from the vizards. Apart from that if it is only through the vizards help- then he will need it.
i am sure even urahara will advise it. These guys are soo powerful and will be an asset on anybodys side. i hope ichigo stays with them so that one day they can fight together against aizen and his cronies. if a vastrode is stronger than a captain imagine how strong they will be being arancars

live4ever

February 24, 2006, 04:02 PM

I feel the way to do that, is to ask Zangetsu. He hasn't been talking to Zangetsu for a while (well if he is, they're not showing us) as we haven't seen him

The world Zangetsu lives in needs to be shared with the Hollow. Perhaps we might see them compromise.

Then again, Zangetsu rules; hope we get to see him :)

Galth

February 24, 2006, 08:56 PM

nothing like seeing a boy choke a girl till she cries. hiyori's expression was priceless!

No need to say more, the look of "WTF?!" on her face made this chapter one of my favourites forever! She was properly pwning Ichigo there, and within a few seconds he has her caught and almost kills her... 7 Vaizards needed to sustain him... creepy...

venicia777

February 24, 2006, 09:56 PM

No need to say more, the look of "WTF?!" on her face made this chapter one of my favourites forever! She was properly pwning Ichigo there, and within a few seconds he has her caught and almost kills her... 7 Vaizards needed to sustain him... creepy...

i dont like the expression of a girl been choked by anyone at all. But in this scene i like the fact that Hollow ichigo did what he did- ichigo was going to be killed by that attack - you know!

xallisto

February 24, 2006, 11:53 PM

If you notice just before they subdue Ichigo you can see the black start filtering into Hiyori's eye, not that it means anything. but it would have been fun to see her hollow's actual personality come out.

conceptz

February 25, 2006, 01:24 AM

If you notice just before they subdue Ichigo you can see the black start filtering into Hiyori's eye, not that it means anything. but it would have been fun to see her hollow's actual personality come out.

Actually, I think the black is filtering OUT. Meaning the white (normal) is filtering back in. I think it's a sign that Hiyori is scared and that she's returning back to her own self from all the choke pwning.

Miso

February 25, 2006, 04:50 PM

Sounds like a good theory. She was totally surprised by Ichigo's Hollow power so it could be that she couldn't keep the strain to remain Hollow. So she switched back into normal mode.

venicia777

February 25, 2006, 06:42 PM

that will explain somethings. but why would she power down if that would mean her gettting totally pawned.
or is it that ichigos hollow just crushed her hollow self- making her revert to normal.

Galth

February 25, 2006, 09:12 PM

You can see Ichigo breaking her mask or something when he bursts upon her... So yeah...

xallisto

February 25, 2006, 09:59 PM

Its great to see that she got overpowered so easily she is still a Vaizard so its gotta make Wichigo pretty strong even amongst the Vaizards.

cygnus

February 26, 2006, 12:13 AM

That doesn't mean he would win a fight against them though. His power is probably the best but he has no control so if he is constantly fighting from the inside they would just cut him up. Hiyori got owned though.

venicia777

February 26, 2006, 03:37 PM

That doesn't mean he would win a fight against them though. His power is probably the best but he has no control so if he is constantly fighting from the inside they would just cut him up. Hiyori got owned though.

i agree. He might have the most potential- or the greatest power- but against those who have had the experience and skill of similar type and know how to control this power/skill there is the slight edge of them winning. She was in vizard mode but not full-hollow mode. we dont know how powerful her hollow is if it was completely in control of her actions nor of how much her power is affected after becoming a vizard.
well, one chance i think ichigo had here was that Hollow-ichigo came out at a time she did not expect and got pretty surprised plus pawned as well. she might have been more careful if ichigo was in that mode all along or even show an extent of her full power.

http://mangahelpers.com/easter/Egg1c.gif

Miso

February 26, 2006, 03:47 PM

True.
I think the "surprise effect" did it for Ichigo in this fight. If she had been more alert to his potential change to a Hollow Hiyori wouldn't have lost this easily.
Thought it was her goal to lure the hollow out she might have been a bit careless so to say.
If there will be more fights, also against the other vaizards, it wouldn't be to easy for Ichigo to win, now that the others know his Hollow potential.
And we also don't know how Hiyori is ranked among the vaizards. There might be much more stronger vaizards in this group.

Galth

February 27, 2006, 11:06 AM

Well, it seems Shinji Hirako (?) is the leader of the Vaizard group, but'as far as we've seen them, Hiyori is stronger/more dominant? Furthermore, it looks like that Hacha/Hacci person only responds to orders, so he must not be ranked very high either...

animefeen

February 27, 2006, 06:10 PM

I've read all of the comments here and alot of yall said that she wasnt in full hollow mode...she was when she transferred with the mask in ful varzaids mode. The only arguement I can agree with in regards to that is she didnt even use her bankai. But lets take a step back Ichigo however wasnt even in full hollow mode the mask was half form and it basically babied one varzaid and took the rest to home him down. Now that compare with the fact he didnt even have a full mask on(which I think means full hollow power) and didnt even use his bankai would basically be a greater threat as far as phyiscally power for them right now but once he learns technique he will be one deadly motherluver lol

Galth

February 27, 2006, 11:42 PM

Do you think Hiyori even HAS a bankai? Back in soul-society that was quite rare, and apart from Renji and Ikkaku, no non-captain had even achieved it at the moment, that is: only 14 people in the entire gotei department!! ( + Ichigo ofcourse... ). How big is the chance of a vaizard having achieved it? ( and as it needs sinchronization with your sword and trust, it would be quite hard for half-evil hollowhybrid creatures such as themselves )

blazingshadow

February 28, 2006, 11:13 PM

maybe it's easier for a vaizard since they have training with their hollow transformation

Ryoma_Echizen

February 28, 2006, 11:46 PM

Being a Hollow has nothing to do with a Bankai. Only the elite can ever wield Bankai. Perhaps ONE of the Visored has one, but it being common among Visored doesn't make much sense.

This also applies to the Arrancar. So until we see those at Vastrode level we likely won't see Bankai. Grimjaw I doubt has one but you never know.

-Ryoma Echizen

cygnus

March 01, 2006, 05:35 AM

They have already stated that their released states are their complete releases, they won't have Bankai just like the Vaizards won't suddenly develop a Cero beam.

Are Espada are Hybrid Vastorodes or Ajuucas? I'm thinking Vastorodes but that stupid freakin' Gillian quote fucked the whole system.

Galth

March 01, 2006, 12:40 PM

Only Grimmjow was said to be espada of the arrancar that came to the mortal world, and he isn't Gillian.

Perhaps Vaizards have a different sort of 'BanKai', like the arrancar have their 'released states'?

vaizards

March 01, 2006, 01:26 PM

Maybe hirako has ban kai... :p

Galth

March 01, 2006, 01:38 PM

That would be awesome... could he be stronger then Ichigo ( hollow-mode ) at the present time? ( note: main characters always only surpass the villains during the last part of their fight )

The Boff

March 02, 2006, 02:05 PM

The weird thing I thought about is that Ichigos eyes changes color. that doesnt happen to the other Vaizards.

my guess is that Ichigo is something completely new. Vaizards was shinigamis before getting their masks. Same hing with Arrancars, they were hollows before they got their shinigamipowers. Ichigo got his at the same time.

Am I stupid or on to something here?

Galth

March 02, 2006, 04:31 PM

Hiyori's eyes change too, check this very chapter...

Though only if she's wearing her mask... so check when Ichigo breaks her mask

The Boff

March 02, 2006, 08:11 PM

really? hold on I'll check..........
you are right about that. damn, and here I was thinking I found something nobody else had noticed....

feeling sad now..

anyways, I still think Ichigo is something entirely new considering he got both powers at the same time. but I'm probably wrong about that too...

Galth

March 02, 2006, 08:16 PM

Hmmz, both powers is indeed something we havn't seen before ( if you mean BanKai + Hollow ) and it doesn't seem like the Vaizards know how to use BanKai...

The Boff

March 02, 2006, 08:23 PM

no, I mean the fact that he gained shinigami and hollow powers at the same time.

everybody else started as either shini or hollow. Ichigo was a soul and then he became both.

remember him standing over the hole with the mask on?

Galth

March 02, 2006, 08:24 PM

Well, isn't that exactly what the other vaizards are too?
"shinigami who have gained hollow powers", they're hybrids...

The Boff

March 02, 2006, 08:35 PM

yeah but they were shiinigamis for a while. then they went someplace and did something to get a mask. become hybrids as you say.

but ichigo was just a plain soul when he started to transform into a hollow. Fought against the transformation. and became a shinigami. urahara says that whilst the transormation sequence is going on.
"normally the body changes first the mask comes after" or something like that. ichigo starts with the mask.

so thats why i believe there is something special with him. (I know i suck at explaining things)

Galth

March 02, 2006, 08:48 PM

Aha, i get it now... but i don't know about that, perhaps we will see something on it later... for now i believe his powers are about the same as the other vaizards...

The Boff

March 02, 2006, 08:53 PM

yeah... but it would be cool, an army of arrancars standing in front of Ichigo and he unleashes his hiddenspecialsuperninja power, kicks everybodys ass and then goes home for tea.