Jordan Harbinger and The Art of Charm Podcast Scam

Is Jordan Harbinger of The Art of Charm Podcast a scammer? One would have trouble reaching any other conclusion when examining the evidence.

(Click play or find me on iTunes to learn more about the evidence showing Mr. Harbinger has neither integrity nor credibility.)

Introducing Jordan Harbinger, Tucker Max, and Roosh.

Roosh, Tucker Max, and The Art of Charm are in the same business – the business of teaching men how to meet women. This is also known as “pick up.”

Looking to destroy who he perceives to be his main competitor, Tucker Max has been lying about Roosh. Unfortunately Tucker Max’s efforts have not succeeded. The only people Tucker Max have won over are members of a terrorist organization PUA Hate:

Tucker Max has picked up where PUAHATE left off. His podcast is perhaps doing more damage to the PUA scene than PUAHATE did. On his podcast, Tucker has a fat shaming professor and other rogue PhDs who never miss the chance to drop a deuce on PUAs.

On October 10, 2014, Jordan Harbinger and Tucker Max tag-teamed Roosh, who is a business competitor.

During the podcast, Tucker Max and Jordan Harbinger had the following discussion about Roosh:

Tucker:
You know, what’s funny is like, okay, so who are the big people in the “manosphere”? Art of manliness is really big like they can’t stand Roosh. I mean, you go down the list. If you name like a lot of the big people like apparently. You have a very big podcast. You’ve got a big site. Apparently, you’re not a huge fan of his.

Jordan:I’m not going to interview anybody who titles their book ‘Bang’. Not only that, but like the fact is the messaging is so wrong and, I mean, we don’t have to go down that rabbit hole again but it’s basically ‘You’re not good enough as you are but if you buy this book I can teach you how to trick some ho’s into sleeping with you.’ And it’s like ‘It’s against everything I stand for. No, thanks. Next.’

Jordan made two statements that any lawyer would examine before calling him a scammer:

1. “I’m not going to interview anybody who titles their book ‘Bang.’

2. “And [the book Bang is] against everything I stand for.”

Does the record support Jordan’s statements? What does Mr. Harbinger really think about Roosh and the book Bang?

Emails show that Jordan Harbinger is lying about Roosh and Bang.

Roosh published Bang on July 10, 2007 (Amazon). On June 17, 2008, Jordan Harbinger sent the following email to Roosh:

hey man it’s Jordan Harbinger from PickUp Podcast. Have heard about you via some listeners. Hit me up at [link omitted] – let’s check out the ebook and see if we can work together.

(Exhibits are at the bottom of the post.)

Perhaps Jordan had a change of heart after learning more about Roosh? No. Jordan Harbinger asked Roosh several other times to appear as a guest on the Art of Charm Podcast.

Jordan Harbinger’s most recent email was sent to Roosh on May 27, 2014.

Hey Roosh,

We’re long overdue for an interview. My show is currently getting 600,000 downloads/month and I’d love to have your perspectives aired. Are you interested?

Looking forward bud,
Jordan Harbinger.

Did Jordan Harbinger have a change of heart about Roosh? If so, what caused it?

After all, Harbinger’s last email to Roosh was less than five months before Harbinger’s appearance on Tucker Max’s Mating Ground Podcast.

(Exhibits: Harbinger’s emails to Roosh re: appearing on The Art of Charm Podcast.)

Lying about your business competitors is a scam.

One can make legitimate criticisms about Roosh and other other person in business. Legitimate criticism is legally and ethically acceptable. Perhaps Jordan knows more about meeting women than anyone else. I highly doubt that, but let’s make room for the possibility.

In that case, Mr. Harbinger could showcase his own skills. He would have no need to lie or scam the all-too-trusting general public.

When you lie about a business competitor in order to increase your own market share, you are perpetuating a scam against the public. You are trying to trick them into hiring you (or reading your site or listening to your podcast) rather than use the services of a competitor.

Lying to the public to increase your market share is a scam. There is no other way to interpret Jordan Harbinger’s behavior.

One can only conclude that Jordan Harbinger of the Art of Charm is not a man of integrity. Like Tucker Max, he has no personal or business ethics, as he will willingly and openly lie in an effort to rip off ignorant and naive listeners.

Mr. Harbinger’s appearance on the Mating Grounds Podcast calls into question all of his previous claims. Unless Mr. Harbinger clarifies his position on Roosh, we should doubt every word that leaves his mouth.

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It’s not enough that the manosphere is being attacked by the rest of the blue pill world, apparently now people from within it are destroying the community. People like this Harbinger guy are pretty easy to see through once you look at the proper evidence, as shown above. He is self-interested and is looking to people with more power than him (i.e. Tucker Max) to increase his success or to some extent his notoriety.
Either way both of these guys are exuding a lot of negativity that should in no way be the message of this community. They seem like leeches to me.

Danger & Play Blog

The funny thing is that Tucker Max does not have a big name anymore. The Mating Grounds gets way less traffic than Danger & Play. Tucker won’t even enable comments on The Mating Grounds, as no one would post any comments. That would show that he has no real audience.

People go on the show thinking they will get good publicity. Instead, well, Jordan Harbinger learned what sort of publicity you get when appearing on The Mating Grounds Podcast.

Roosh_V

It seems that all he has left is a popular Twitter account. He gets many retweets…. except for when he links to The Mating Grounds. People like him in doses no greater than 140 characters.

KingKratom

I’m not saying you condone this Mike (maybe you do), but since DnP has a bigger and stronger community… wouldn’t it be some great justice if all of us (a lot of us) went to his iTunes and 1-stared him?

He gets you x-amount of 1-stars.
He in turn gets 10x-amount of 1-stars.

It is only fitting.

Danger & Play Blog

I appreciate the sentiment but not for now. I’m doing my work making sure people who use Google know the truth about him. If anyone gets conned, it’s on them.

I consider it poor business ethics. He’s willing to interview anyone in order to get a share of the interviewees fan base so he can spread his own message.

Did he think that Roosh wouldn’t see him talking shit behind his back?

Danger & Play Blog

Jordan wanted attention. Now he got it. He’s of the mind that any publicity is good publicity. That is true when people make fun of you, perhaps, but that is not true when you are exposed as a liar.

KingKratom

I’ve heard that saying so many times “any publicity is good publicity”.

GLL had a good retort for that exact comment when somebody said it during the time that people were “exposing” his daygame video for being set-up (supposedly).

I don’t remember exactly what he said, but there is without a doubt publicity that is irreparable and certainly NOT good. As you said, being exposed as a liar is something that is not reversible.

I didn’t know this fucker before you brought him up, I’m certainly not going to give him any of my attention now. Good example of publicity not being favorable for him, as I’m sure there are plenty of other guys saying the exact same thing I. Maybe one guy out of a thousand will read your blog post and check him out with the intent of “I think I’m going to like this guy”.

Danger & Play Blog

Yep. It turns out a few D&P readers subbed to his podcast. One guy emailed me saying I should be a guest on The Art of Charm. Now D&P readers know what’s up. What they do next is their choice, of course.

KingKratom

Is Jordan the guy on the left in the picture?
Not sure why any DnP’ers would sub to something that guy is running.

This is the type of thing that is really frustrating to me. When people who say they are in the business of helping men be better when in reality those very same guys are acting like a bunch of jealous little kids and not actually helping but hindering men who want to better themselves!

I never been to Roosh’s blog or read any of his books still though the man put in a lot time and effort in his work on his own without trying to put down people. If you do not like the stuff he writes then don’t go to his blog or shout his name out!

I think Josh and Max are upset at Roosh probably because he does not give them any attention or maybe Josh jumped at the chance to talk shit about Roosh because Roosh never replied to his emails. Who Knows! You would be surprised on how childish people get when they do not get their way!

Its a sad state of affairs going on in the Manosphere!

Danger & Play Blog

They lack a vision for the future. Thus Tucker and Jordan are making themselves as the not-Roosh, not-PUA, not-whatever. It’s better for them to find out who they are, what they value, and focus on their vision of what they are rather than what they are not.

FlorianUlrich

Thanks for bringing this to light. I didn’t realize it was THAT bad.

I read the transcript of Tucker’s and Jordan’s podcast the day before and was annoyed because they were hating on PUA internet marketers using methods that nobody in the industry talks about anymore.

All bla-bla to boost up their own importance. Of course, THEY are only interested in the well-being of their customers and would NEVER scam anyone.

And hating on Roosh? Please.

The commentators and guest posters on “Return of Kings” have more interesting stuff to say in one paragraph than contained in that entire podcast – which is trying to cram a “Red Pill” mindset into a “Blue Pill” envelope. Of course that ends up being emotionally and intellectually dishonest.

But what else can you do when you are afraid of the word “bang”?

bear

I’ve learned in business, the more someone verbally stresses they would never scam you, the more I am inclined to think otherwise. As the old Shakespeare line so wisely states ” thee doth protest too much”

I do hope your having screenshots of these emails means that Roosh is taking some kind of legal action. In that podcast they called him a rapist. Something about watching one of his videos and Tucker says, about the video, “and I realized I was looking into the eyes of a rapist.” or something to that effect.

Pretty fucked up.

FlorianUlrich

True, I remember. And he also ridiculed Roosh for posting videos from an apartment Tucker apparently deemed unworthy. That, your post AND the laughter that sounds rather fake make Tucker look like the psychopath he wants to paint Roosh as.

greek god

Saw a London Real video with the Art of Charm and wasn’t impressed. He did a stint on Wall Street and that was it. Not much in terms of life experience nor does he add much value to the conversation. His business model is a traditional media model; provide a large amount of pre-scheduled wide ranging banal, semi interesting info. Except he makes money off of subscription and rev share model in addition to advertising dollars.

I just went on the site and got hit with a customer service rep chat screen asking if I needed help like it was some B2B solution. Seems like he’s trying to create order takers as opposed to self informed men of action.

Either way, if you can’t sense the lack of congruence in him then you deserve to get conned. Most importantly, self improvement has a degree of self delusion and self imposed higher standard to see results. Currently, I am here and for the foreseeable future will hold myself to this standard to reach this delusional new reality. Most people reading this website are ahead of Jordan so its a terrible standard to follow.

In closing, you never make money focusing on your competition so fuck ’em.

Danger & Play Blog

I doubt he makes much money, either. Those guys spent a lot of money on marketing and PR to make themselves look big. Once it all nets out, they wind up making much less than people would think.

greek god

That is the sense I got as well. The lay out of the website is very clean and sleek. It provides the impression of a professional education setting. Spend a lot of money and time because you have to improve. It is refined and articulate.
However, it misses the key area that personal change revolves around, innate rawness. You can’t coach someone into getting into the gym, eating right, or developing an action based mentality. That must come from within and Jordan’s approach/material focuses on external inertia. The external will get you something but once the coaching stops, the results will as well.

The content between your site and his could be the same but demo identity of the readers and end results will always be vastly different.

You seek to teach a principle through us absorbing it. I don’t know what his “mantra” is but isn’t worth my time and money.

On a side note, my time consuming info from your site and few others has vastly dropped in the past month. I’m in Chicago now and can’t be in the batters box taking practice swings, I need live action to feel and see the results. And that is ultimately the difference between two sites.

Excited to see Gorilla Mindset.

Alex Maven

I think its just a marketing ploy attacking the manosphere to get attention.

Look at what Tucker did when he was trying to get attention for his books.

He stirred up as much controversy as possible with religious-right wing groups to get free PR because he didn’t have the money, resources, or connections to build it on his own.

The whole thing was documented on ‘Trust me I’m lying’

He’s trying to do it all over again in this niche. Although I see it failing miserably.

A one trick pony. And this pony is dead.

Danger & Play Blog

Yes, I read Ryan Holiday’s book, too. I have used the tactics Ryan Holiday espoused against Tucker Max.

I’ve always positioned myself on Google for The Mating Grounds. I know how much traffic Tucker is getting. It’s shit traffic or a shit site.

Also, when Tim Ferriss and other sites start linking to The Mating Grounds…Well they will have to bump me off the first page of Google. That will take some time.

Tucker’s trick won’t work this time, however, as who is his audience? PUA Hate readers? Jezebel feminists?

I can write about him and no one is going to go over to The Mating Grounds and say, “This is great. I’m staying here!”

They read it, realize how pathetic Tucker Max is, and then when the positive PR blitz happens from Tim Ferriss, they know it’s a garbage site.

Danger & Play Blog

Here is the raw data for The Mating Grounds.

Alex Maven

Agreed. Its funny. I found you after stumbling onto Tucker’s site. I only followed him because he had done some novel things with book marketing and had just released a new book called the bookstrappers guide that I wanted to check out.

When I went to his site I found the mating grounds and I’m like “WTF”

He is trying to do the whole “PUA-esque” thing AND going to be a book internet marketer.

That’s when things didn’t seem right to me. Its like he’s trying to do all these different things and just find something…ANYTHING that will work.

I have no interest in tearing anyone down but as a young guy trying to make his way I’m getting increasingly critical and weary of people that sell shill advice to people that want to make honest forward progress.

It makes me respect your forwardness and brutal honesty all the more.

Sure enough.

He discontinued the book marketing project shortly after it failed to sell almost anything from my estimates. You can see the broken links below.

As soon as I read 2 pages of that book I called utter nonsense when some friends showed it to me. There is NO way to prove any of that shit happened unless you had witnesses, pictures, documentation, whatever.

Nate

I think 3 of those searches were me a few months ago lol

Nice shred out Mike, these guys are pussies and you’re doing a great job exposing them

I looked at the Itunes reviews and saw one of the reviewers who rated you 1 star also rated the art of charm 5 stars. Those were his only two reviews. hmmm… this is pretty difficult to decipher. I think we’ll have to hire sherlock holmes to get to the bottom of this.

Danger & Play Blog

That’s funny.

Chris Adams

The timing of this is interesting (personally) as I subscribed to the Harbinger bros. podcast last weekend. After sitting through the first couple of eps., I soon tired of all the self-congratulatory backsplapping and clear b.s., and I unsubscribed.

Danger & Play Blog

Good decision.

Ben

Cripes. Is everyone out to fuck one another? Seems like that is the case. Kind of disheartening.

Here’s an idea Mike. Perhaps you should create a list of places/companies that are reputable and are good to do business with out there. Then again, those same companies that are good can oftentimes turn bad if profits start to fall. Wow….said many times…what interesting times we live in.

Ben

KingKratom

DnP.
GLL.
BnD.

The trifecta of bad-assery.

If you want SOME MORE check out fabfitover40.com

Ben

Bold & Determined is excellent. Fabfitover40….hmmm…not sure I have heard of that one. I will have to check it out.

KingKratom

I just started frequenting it recently and I’m not disappointed. I have high standards as I’m so used to the quality of the other aforementioned blogs.

The man (and his wife) who run ffover40 is actually Jay, he is on numerous of Mike’s podcasts and videos. I’m surprised you haven’t seen his blog yet, as I’m fairly sure you’ve been reading DnP for quite some time.

Check it out though pimp, I’m looking forward to seeing some of your analysis on his topics, as you do on a regular basis here.

They do have an excellent site. Let lots of your friends know about Jay & Monica’s site. They have excellent content. Very clear and concise. They do a lot of excellent work & help a lot of individuals. That would include me as well. I enjoy your takes as well. Best of luck in all your endeavors!

KingKratom

Well, you sure got me Ben.
It is good you did, I’m generally not forgetful of people, but I certainly won’t forget you now!

In my attempt to meet girls after my divorce I think I spent $50 or so and bought one of Jordan’s products. I thought his stuff was OK. I signed up for this “call” thing he offered. No big deal.

So, this guy, literally Jordan, called me directly at least 4 times trying to upsell me into this “program” he was teaching. He also had someone else contact me to upsell me. Also sent email, etc. I think he even texted me a few times. It was annoying as hell. A little pathetic.

I looked at him and his business totally different after that. This was 2012.

To be fair, bang was released in 2010 and the emails were sent in 2008. The podcast was recorded in 2014. That is 6 years after the initial interaction. I don’t listen to harbingers podcast, and I am a loyal fan of yours, but it is very possible that harbinger changed his mind over 6 years or doesn’t remember the previous exchange.

Mike Cernovich

Then a correction should have been issued immediately. Pretty simple. When you’re wrong, you say, “Ah, I forgot.” Not complicated.

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