Everyone’s beating up on poor Pierre. Juan’s got the tools (minus arm, minus power), he just needs someone to light a fire under his butt and nix the ho-hum ‘tude that kid has between the lines. Joe’s just the guy to do it. Speed kills, and Pierre’s got it. I’d be okay with Juan in left field where he could roll the ball into the cutoff man. Sorry JP, it is what it is… show me something for the money you’re getting next season and I’ll apologize.

I’ve read a lot about bringing ARod to LA. We should look at the pros and cons of him coming here. Pros: great baseball player, would fill the 3rd base / power hitter vacuum we’ve had. Cons: all about ARod (No I in team, but me in team and I in win, though), $$ to sign obviously, bad influence on the kids, Dodger Stadium not exactly a hitter’s park (in ARod’s pursuit of breaking records).

Although I can’t believe I’m defending Boras on this, but he did mention one thing that should have all Dodger fans who are emphatic about signing ARod should hear. Boras mentioned a new revenue stream that ALL MLB teams will get next year. It’s from the MLB.com venture that has been hugely successful and generated a boatload of $$. Guess how much per year each team is getting –you got it, $30 million a year.

Of course, this could be one of his stories to get a team to sign, but if, true, there is no excuse to pull the trigger.

Which leads me to suspecting that Boras is going to get the Angels in on this bidding wat. Moreno is determined to make the Angels the LA market team. He’s a marketing guy and Latino to boot. Although he says he doesn’t see spending that amount on one player, he, like other teams, has that new revenue stream. He, like McCourt, could say, “I was doing fine without that stream…just redirect it to the Arod contract”.

2) Dodgerjoeliz, I respectfully disagree. For one thing, baseball is actually not that much of a team game, particularly compared to basketball and football; one person at a time bats, you don’t want to get out on offense, the pitcher wants to avoid walking or giving up a homer to the batter, and the fielder wants to make every play he’s supposed to. You don’t have nearly as many different plays to execute. But that aside, A-Rod isn’t a terrible teammate; he’s gotten along better with Torre and Jeter, he apparently has been really nice to Cano and Melky too.

3) Brad Penny is underrated as a clubhouse guy. He’s been great to the younger players, most notably Martin and Saito, and while he cares about winning and wants to do well, he’s not a jerk. But the reason I like that he’s a Dodger is that he’s in the prime of his career, he’s cheap (less than Jeff Suppan and much better) and he’s good.

4) I’m on the Arod or Nobody bandwagon this offseason as far as offensive free agents. As far as pitching goes, re-signing Wolf might be the way to go, unless you want to try Schilling. It’s not worth it to trade for a 1 year rental on Santana when you’ll still have to pay for him the next year and give up players to get him. To be fair though, signing A-Rod means that it’s not unreasonable to look for avenues to trade LaRoche.

5) I think what the Dodgers really need to realize now is that they have better players in their farm system than most of the free agent market. Unless it’s a superstar on the market, play the kids. It will pay off now and a couple years down the road.

martinloneykemp@hotmail.com I dont think we can have a winning team with LaRoche playing 3B on the team. This kid just does not do it for me. He has been given the chance to prove himself and just cant. I say we trade him while we can and get some pitching.

Sign A-Rod and sell me some playoff tickets once A-Rod has been signed.

Welcome to LA Mr. Torre, im so excited to be going to dodger stadium next season and see Joe Torre in the dugout. We needed the change, and we need A ROD!!!!!!!!!!! Raise the prices i dont care ill pay just get that world series championship with A ROD.

Looking forward to a new coaching staff. Who’s going to be our pitching coach? Guidry? Only coach who should remain from Grady’s staff is Mariano Duncan. We need Mariano to stay, he has passion and works well with Furcal and knows a lot of the younger players.

We can assume Mattingly and Bowa will be coming over. I bet Duncan stays which is a good call. Dave Jauss would be nice to keep around but he’s probably going to the Pirates. Honeycut might be retained but i’d look at Leo Mazzone though before Honeycut. Although Honeycut helped Broxton and Penny alot with their splitters.

We don’t need Jauss, keep Duncan and that’s it. Jauss was Grady’s right hand man and I think Jauss had a lot of influence on the line-up, which we all know was a joke all season. Duncan played for Torre when he was with the Yankees, I love the combo of Duncan, Bowa and Mazzone would be great. Maybe Orel would be willing to leave ESPN to become our pitching coach.

Torre will be good. There is nobody better at uniting young and old players. There won’t be a divided clubhouse the way there was this past year. He would have been my 2nd or 3rd choice but I still welcome Torre with open arms. GO JOE!!!!! GO DODGERS!!!!!!

Swood — Additionally, don’t go out and try to get ARod, Santana, Jones, etc. Of course, have some contigences plans in place if you can’t get ARod, but I think you need to be careful (as Patriots Acts mentions) about trading LaRouche — actually WHEN you trade him. If it’s after signing ARod, his value drops; if it’s before ARod sings, Boras jacks up the price.

Max_Power — I agree with your pitching signings — both those guys are gritty, right-work-ethic/mentality guys.

As for Pierre, Torre will probably know what to do with him. I’m sure that was part of his discussions before he signed. I’ve heard Torre will play small ball, hit-and-run style which Pierre will be good for. Pierre actually produced like he had been before we signed so it’s no surprise what we got. Personally, I think he needs to charge balls hit to him to make up for his arm.

if the dodgers will sign ARod i say put him a 3B… don’t trade LaRoche… i think he can play 2B too…

we can use more power on the IF coz Kent i think will retire (i hope he retires by the way!)… if not trade him to a team that wants a baby! Kent is still good, alot of teams will want his talent not his attitude though! LOL

Max_Power — I wouldn’t try moving Ethier. He’s got a sweet swing a respected scout had mentioned (and he couldn’t believe the A’s parted with him for Bradley).Try and move Pierre if you can (either this year or next). This is based on the fact that you don’t go out and get the outfielders on teh market (Jones and Hunter). Develop what you got and strictly go after ARod (no Santana, etc.) Just the big FA!!

Joe Torre is a 3-year deal, and at 70, I think he’ll hang it up. Maybe the idea is that Mattingly is his heir apparent? But as strange as having Torre run the Dodgers is, the thought of Mattingly in Dodger Blue is just bizzarre. Frankly, I still wish we were brining in Kirk Gibson. Next year will not only be the 50th anniversary of coming to LA, but the 20th anniversary of the last World Championship, and I think Gibson would be a block to build around as manager for 20 years (ala Tommy and Alston).

But that being said, it’s still a good pick for manager. Torre will be solid, bring the calm that the clubhouse needs, and we should be in good shape. And as strange as it will be to see Mattingly as a Dodger, he’ll be good (he can be great for Loney–who may be like Mattingly at his age, and let’s just hope he never develops Mattingly’s back problems).

We don’t need A-Rod. LaRoche may yet prove to be the real answer (and the idea that he has been given a chance is bunk. He is still eligible for Rookie of the Year next year because he’s had so few games and at-bats. And, yes, he hit only .226 this year through 93 at-bats. But that’s 93 at-bats. I don’t think it’s particularly wise to do to LaRoche what we did to Loney–who hit .383, with a 1.023 OPS in his firt 93 at-bats this year–and make him literally break down the door and then vaporize it in a blaze of 1000 suns. Maybe we could give these guys a little more of a chance.

That being said, while I like our chances without A-Rod, with A-Rod, it’s a lock. Write me down for October (I hear there is only one of them).

Finally, I see that martinloneykemp and others are pushing to get rid of Pierre. I don’t see it happening. Too much payroll to dump. But I am curious on martinloneykemp’s proposed line-up why he has Loney hitting fourth and Kemp fifth. Wouldn’t you flip that?

A great post on the DodgerThoughts blog – http://dodgerthoughts.baseballtoaster.com – capturing a number of thoughts on Joe Torre’s management style and tendencies from several long-time observers. Worth the read if you really want to know something about him.

yeah, DT has a great great break down of Joe Torre’s tendencies as a manager. To be honest I’m on WAIT & SEE MODE with Torre, I gotta see him in action before I decide if I like ’em or not, kind of like a K-9 sniffing another K-9, veremos.

I think Torre is a good hire, but his apparent preference for veterans concerns me. It sounds like he wants to add a slugger…not a bad idea…except for rookies being blocked by veterans & what you might lose in trade. To me this means that in all likelihood we will probably be trading LaRoche, Ethier, or Kemp just to get someone more established.

torre managing. with donny baseball, larry bowa, & marion duncan. i say keep honeycutt or go for oreal. having hersh would be awesome. gibso would be great to get to but he’s with arizona.

i say if we can get arod without giving to much up than we should. if we somehow have that money for him, get him. if not than pray lowell is a free agent and get him or make a trade for cabrera, beltre, or someone else. laroche won’t do. yeah he could play 3rd but we need a power hitter. and i say keep pierre and put him in left.batted just under 300 and stole 60 something bases.

Great News! AMF Grady! Welcome Joe! This is definitely and upgrade, and a step in the right direction. Priority one should be to solidify the problem with the hot corner. An Arod signing would be a major coup, but I wouldn’t mind if Lowell, or Cabrera were to jump on board. As far as signing a Center Fielder, Andruw Jones would be a huge boost defensively, but his offensive numbers lacked severely this last season. Here’s the big question: Do we keep the up & coming stud Kemp, and let him take over in CF and roll the dice putting Pierre in LF, and Ethier in RF? I’m conflicted with the fact that some of the young up & coming studs brought up will be offered up as trade bait. It remains to be seen as far as who stays, and who goes. Time will tell.

All right!!! Now let’s get the clubhouse settled down, instill a winning attitude, and trust Ned and Joe to assess the talent and personalities together and make whatever changes THEY deem appropriate. Since none of us here at ITD was in that clubhouse, isn’t it a bit presumptious of us to say which players were guilty of casing the turmoil?

Personally, I’m inclined to believe Derek Lowe when he places the blame on practically everyone including himself. Hopefully those who are left can learn from experience and with Joe’s guidance get to October, 2008 and win the 11 post season games we need to return a world championship banner to its rightful place high atop Dodger Stadium.

Ned says he knows what is needed personnel-wise, so go get ’em and let’s get this new era of Dodger Baseball off to a great start in Vero Beach (sadly for the last time) next February.

Lowe needs to STHU and just pitch. We brought in plenty of people who have won before, they were just lousy. We’re not going to trade good young players just to make you happy when you have one year left here. Furthermore, vets being irratated by young players moving in isn’t part of the game. There are some veterans who are gracious enough to embrace younger players. Obviously the Dodgers don’t have those type of veterans.

Sign an OF (Rowand, Jones, or Hunter), then move Pierre(would love to move pierre off team but with that contract, not an option) and play Kemp in RF. Then you put a package together and overwhelm the Marlins for Cabrera (Something like Kershaw, LaRoche, and Ethier should get it done). Your giving up great prospects, but you’re getting a potential Hall of Famer without the heavy price tag of A-Rod. Sign a pitcher like Schill.

I still say signing a free agent is less of a risk than trading 3 or 4 of your top prospects. any trade talk should stop when the other team says kershaw.
A-rod would give us the power hitter we need, but I would move him back to short, with laroche at third.

If laroche isn’t ready abreu is. if neither is then hu could play short, and a-rod moves to 3rd.

trade furcal for a pitcher

losing his 13 million helps to afford a-rod.

Now that we have torre what does kent do ?

with martinez gone does it mean nomar is the backup, or are we thinking abreu.

my biggest worry is if we do make trades, who do we give up on, we have so much talent, it will be hard not tohave the trades haunt us for years to come. nerviously awaiting our new future

Thats why any deal is ultimately a gamble i suppose- i agree completely Frank. The fear that you might be trading away someone great is there, but they dont pay me to pull the trigger.

The A-Rod signing gives us A LOT more flexibility, which is always key in a game of contract opt outs, injuries, inconsistent play, etc.. I personally love Franks idea of signing A-Rod and trading Furcal. Genius, seriously… We will be stuck with Pierre and that is that, but at least he will get to hit in his natural spot. It seems like he hit better when he hit first this year.

Just think about it people. A-Rod at SS, LaRoche, Nomar, Abreu– sink or swim, someone will step up. Next year, A-Rod to 3b, Hu to SS (assuming LaRoche doesnt work out), we can trade LaRoche for some value.. OR LaRoche takes the reins like he should, we can trade Hu and get GREAT value in return. ****, make Hu play 2b, trade Abreu and probably get someone really good. We would have a lot of options with a bat and presence like A-Rod in the lineup, and we have that gaping hole at third base..

Forget A-Rod. He might have the power numbers, but we don’t need that kind of pay disparity amongst our players. Playing as a team is our most important need, and signing a player who jumps teams for greater personal gain when he already gets more money than any other player is not the kind of team influence we need in the clubhouse.

Joe Torre went from Giant fan living in Brooklyn, to Mets manager, to Yankee manager, to Dodger manager. I’m about Joe’s age, from Brooklyn, been a Dodger fan practically all my life. I welcome Joe to the family.

Russ Martin is the ideal #2 hitter. He sees a boatload of pitches, he has some good power and speed, and he’s a great contact hitter. All the things you look for in a #2 hitter. Saying he’d get more tired because he bats 2nd in the order lacks logic. He’ll get tired if he never comes out of the lineup like last year.

DodgerDude–I agree that Option 2 is best. I’m not as hard on Pierre as others, but the problem is that Pierre as a left-fielder is just awful. However much below the league average he may be as a center-fielder, he might be the worst regular left-fielder in history. It’s one thing to have him in center, where you have some great hitters (Jones, Hunter), but a lot of speed guys. But left field is a classic power-hitter, run-producing position.

Jungar–Your proposal to put Furcal in CF was probably the first post from you that truly shocked me. I know you want to dump Pierre, but can Furcal play center-field?? I really don’t know at all.

I think the problem is that we’re stuck with Pierre for at least the next couple of years. Let’s hope he plays more like the second half than the first.

Well, in reading the LA Times and ESPN today on the Torre deal, I’m nervous. VERY nervous. Although I was giving Colletti the benefit of the doubt after the season on what went wrong, I’m changing faces. Given all that has happened this past week with the Little fiasco, I’m seeing that this guy may have serious management problems.

Cases in point: He couldn’t even give Plaschke a straight answer as to when he interviewed Torre. He said on Wednesday that reports he had heard in the last 3 days about a deal in place for Torre, length and $$ of contract,etc., were so off base, they were riduculous (Torre is hired the next day). Now, hearing those comments mixed in with what the Dodgers have to do to shore up the team make me nervous that this guy is in charge. What’s HE going to do? Trade away the kids to win under Torre’s 3-year deal, thereby potentially giving up part of the future? Remember, Girardi was the Dodger’s first choice (to have Girardi for the LONG term with the kids). Does that youth philosophy now change, as Colletti has said and do we believe what he says given his statements listed above? Again, I’m nervous. What is the plan?

I hope I’m wrong. I hope that Torre will stay on longer than his 3-years (he’d be 70 then). Can he give us maybe 3-5 years after that?

Dodgerdude — Option 2 is better. Trading WAY to many prospects for Cabrera (who was issues of his own with weight and contract year in 2009, which may approach a HUGE contract). Give the contract to ARod and let the kids develop. Furcal ($13 million), Nomar ($8 million) and Kent $9 million) will all definitely be gone after next year, so there is your $30 million right there as well as the $$ from MLB.com (reported to be $30 million to each team). ARod can then play SS or 3B and Hu and Abreu can play 2B, SS or 3B. No need to spend o nposition players; go for pitching — SP and RP.

Pat25rod — You still want Cabrera after all that? Great, mix in a kid like that with our young kids and you are just adding to more potential drame for Joe to handle. Of course, Cabrera will either shape up this year or next since he’s up for FA in 2009.

I also said I like the idea of signing A-Rod over trading for Cabrera. Bottom line though, if both these guys are available, and both are moved this winter, the dodgers have to at least try to get one of them. I prefer to sign A-rod, keep most the kids, and later on play LaRoche at 2b(he was drafted as ****, so he could easily make the move.) 2010 infield: Loney, LaRoche, Hu, A-Rod.

If anybody is having trouble finding 3 announcers to vote for in the Ford Frick Awards, Red Barber always said that Connie Desmond had the mellowest voice, this side of the Mississippi. That of course was when the Dodgers were still in Brooklyn. I think if he was still around, you’d all feel the same way about my favorite announcer.

In talking with relatives who are Dodger fans, one mentioned that ARod may not come due to Ned’s relationship with Boras and what he (Drew and/or Boras) did by opting out and Ned’s tirade tantrum in the paper. I honestly hope that Ned realizes that even though a player may verbally indicate he is staying, this is a business and you have to wait until the ink on the contract is dry knowing that a player is not opting out. Holding that grudge on the agent (even if it is Boras) is unprofessional and potentially detrimental to future negotiations with players of those agents. If it’s in the contract, it potentially can happen. If a player verbally gives you his word, make him sign it. If he doesn’t, you better have some good contingency plans in place to deal with it and not have the perception that you signed FA on the fly to fill that hole.

Pierreseastmeetswest — One of 2 ways to look at that Boras statement — One, Ned and Boras have a chummy relationship or, two, the relationship is still strained but Boras needs the Dodgers to get in on the bidding since they are only one of a small number of teams that could sign ARod (and I’m sure he wants the Angels and Dodgers to war it out).

I could see that happening actually. We’d probably have to give up LaRoche for him. Which would be letting our best third base option go. Then we’d have to sacrafice Ethier or Kemp because we still have Little Leaguer roaming center.

Even if he has a no-trade clause he can wave it. It’s his decision not the teams. Matsui would be a good fit but he has never proven to be a stand alone power hitter in this league. His numbers might be inflated because of the lineup he’s batted in and the short porch at Yankee Stadium.

Report says Boras wanted Yankees to pay A-Rod $350M! Hey, just a thought — wouldn’t it be hilarious if NOBODY bothered to bid on A-Rod? MLB should stick it to Boras. Ultimately, fans end up bearing some of these costs — higher tkts prices, food and drink, parking, etc.

I never thought we’d have a new manager on November 1, 2007. That said, anything is possible now. ANYTHING. I, too, would love an upgrade in center field…not because of Pierre’s stick, but because of his defense…more specifically his arm. The move to left field doesn’t make sense. That’s traditionally a power spot and besides, you still have to throw out runners from left field to win a close game now and then. Ned painted himself into a corner on that deal (and threw away the key…if I may mix metaphors). I don’t see how any other team will help us paint our way out of that expensive misadventure.

Let’s not forget that the Yankees have enjoyed A-Rod’s services for very little salary, since the Rangers have been paying most of it. They must be absolutely giddy now that A-Rod opted out and their own salary subsistence for A-Rod will stop. As good as he may be, Seattle, Texas, or the Yankees have won nothing with him. It would be ridiculous to enter into a new 10 year contract with him at $30 million plus per year. It won’t work out any better in the future than it has in the past, except for A-Rod and Boras.

Pierre on offense is a huge problem and I guess people are blinded by the steals which are basically meaningless.

Andruw Jones, in the worst year of his career had 2 times as many extra base hits (and 26 more Homerun) and 3 times as many walks, in over 150 less plate apperances. He also managed to score 8 less runs while not hitting at the top of the order and not having 60 steals. Never mind the defense and the 50 additional RBI. And this was his WORST season in 10 years.

I don’t understand why people are hot to trade young guys when our answers can be found in the free agent market. In other words why pay money AND players when money alone will get the job done?

There are a few very good FAs out there and no reason why a team with the #1 NL attendance shouldn’t be able to sign one of them — either ARod (not my personal favorite), Andruw or Torii.

Some continue to insist that we’re stuck with Pierre. I don’t agree. When you make a mistake — which signing Pierre at $9 million/yr for 5 years clearly was — you fix that mistake as soon as possible. The Pierre problem is at least partially fixable by trading him away (or essentially giving him away is fine) and eating $2-3 million per year. I’m sure there is a taker out there for that deal. The alternatives are to play him in CF and lose 5 games per year due to his horrific offense, play him in LF and have perhaps the weakest power-hitting LFer in MLB history, or eat $9 million per year for a pinch runner. Put in its proper light, it’s a no-brainer that Pierre must go!!

I agree with leekfink that ultimately if Loney and Kemp were to bat 4-5 in the lineup Kemp will probably hit 4th before Loney because he figures to have more power. But for now Loney has earned a higher spot in the batting order. Another way to go would be to bat Loney second. Kevin Youkillis of the Red Sox is a somewhat similar player — excellent OBP, no speed — who has proved himself very valuable in the 2-slot. This would knock Martin down several slots in the lineup though.

The Dodgers real problem — despite the continual insistence in the media that the Dodgers lack hitting — is an overabundance of the same forcing good players like Loney, Martin, LaRoche, and/or Ethier down to the six, seven-, and eight-holes. This comment does assume the signing of one premier FA.

The Dodgers also don’t lack power even without a FA signing. Now that Grittle and Luis “Whiny” Gonzalez are gone, there is every reason to believe that Loney and Kemp will get 550+ ABs each this year. As it stands now we should get this HR production:

Furcal — 10

Martin — 20

Kemp — 25

Loney — 25

Kent — 20

Ethier — 20

LaRoche — 15

Pierre — 1 (inside the park)

Bench — 15

That’s 150 HR compared to the 129 we had last year. Replace Pierre with Hunter/Jones and make it 180 HR, more than both the Diamondbacks or Rockies had this year.

The youngsters are ready NOW!! The addition of one of the big three FAs to compliment the Joe Torre signing would make this team a favorite to go to the Fall Classic in 2008.

All the “I don’t want A-Rod because none of the teams he’s been on have won” arguments have to stop. The guy is a serious player. Top 3 all time. On the field, there is no one better right now. The Dodgers are one of a handful of teams that can afford A-Rod. We wouldn’t give up anything but money to get him. Frank McCourt is already gouging us at the Stadium, why not put our money to use to buy the best player in the game? The logic behind the “he will never win” argument is faulty… just because something hasn’t happened before does not mean it will never happen. Also, it’s a 25 man roster, not a 1 man roster. It’s not all his fault that he’s never won the big one, and if he ever does win the big one it will not be all because of him. Sign A-Rod!

alright, cool. yeah torre’s on but what about the players? what about some moves? we need a championship team. im tired of sub par seasons and dissapointing players. why are we letting the anaheim angels have all the fun? we deserve championship seasons; this is L.A. for gods sake! lets get on it!

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