ich; SW 7/2/15
Hello crew,
<Ed>
I am pretty sure my main reef display tank has developed ich.
<No fun>
I will be removing all of my fish to a hospital tank for treatment but I have
one question. After removing all of my fish for the six to ten week duration
from my main display tank do I need to feed the tank with a source of ammonia
some how to keep the tank cycled? or can I just leave it alone?
<Likely nothing to add>
keep in mind that the existing live rock, sand and corals will remain in
the display tank.
<Oh; with the exception of what you place for the "corals food".>
Thanks,
Ed
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>

Fallow tank due to flukes 10/6/13
Hi crew!
I have a question concerning the life span/cycle of marine flukes
without a host. The question of how long to run a main tank
fallow has been asked for years and the answers range from a couple of
weeks to a few months.
<More the former>
I have been reading every article, scientific report and journal I can
find to determine how long Neobenedenia can live without a host.
Based on what I found the adult can live up to 5 days at 25 degrees C.
The eggs hatch within 4-6 days and if the larvae don't find a host
within 36 hrs they die.
I have yet to find any report of an egg remaining dormant (like
Cryptocaryon) at 25 degrees C.
<Sounds about right>
Based on this information if a tank is fallow for 15 days shouldn't the
life cycle be broken?
<Yes>
Do you know of any reports that contradicts this information?
Thank you!
Jen
<I do not. Bob Fenner>
Re: Fallow tank due to flukes 10/6/13
Hi Bob! Thank you for the quick response. I'm sorry to bother you with
this but I really wanted someone with knowledge of parasitic life cycles
and not just a guess:) My tank has been fallow for 4 weeks so I think
I'll begin moving the fish from their QTs back to the main. Thank you
again! Jen
<Certainly. B>

Fallow Tank question... re: inverts...
7/25/12
Hi Gang,
<Hello Chuck>
I'm living through a marine velvet episode, thanks to
making the most basic-of-all-mistakes (failure to quarantine).
<Ahh. An ounce of prevention...>
Survivors are being moved to hospital tanks for treatment. My question is
this: I have two inverts which can't tolerate the medication/s... a
skunk cleaner shrimp... and a green brittle star. My question is this:
can they stay in my reef during the 'fallow' period...
<Yes but don't forget to spot feed.>
or are they able to 'host' the velvet (if indeed it is Amyloodinium).
<No.>
I'd like to leave them in there... but don't want to risk reinfecting the
fish AFTER my fallow period.
<As long as the fallow period is long enough, you will be good.>
I've looked through the forums... saw that initial infection can come into
a tank with these creatures (or live rock... or just about anything else
that's 'wet')... but figured it was probably just a hitchhiker, rather
than an active parasite in these cases. Can you let me know your
thoughts on this?
<Amyloodinium can be introduced to the tank in a variety of ways but it
needs a fish to survive long term.>
Thanks...
<Quite welcome>
Chuck-the-ten-year-reefer-who-decided-to-act-like-an-idiot
<Jordan>

New fish RIP, Questions on Quarantine tank,
fallow tank or bleach 2/1/12
Well, I should start this off by saying I'm either an idiot
for not paying attention on what I've read on your site about the
need for quarantine tanks, or I'm the fish Grim Reaper himself.
<Perhaps both or neither>
I had a FOWLR tank lose a newly added dog-face puffer, angel, and
trigger fish. The angel and trigger went on the same day.
They all looked like had pale splotchy skin. They went from
eating to dead in about 2 days.
The puffer went a little bit earlier and had the same symptoms.
Water quality looked good throughout the process. Nitrates under
20ppm, Nitrites 0, PH 8.0-8.2.
I never implemented a quarantine process using the "fish looked
good" method. Well, I guess its time to admit that that
method doesn't work.
<Most all eventually "get caught">
I am pulling the remaining fish out of the main display tank and
treating with copper in the quarantine tank when the test kit arrives..
The remaining fish look healthy at this time. They are a
porcupine puffer 5", Lunar Wrasse 4" and a 18" snowflake
eel.
<Mmm, none really "like" copper...>
My questions are:
1) Can I use the water from the main tank to setup the
quarantine?
<Yes>
2) Will copper kill what is killing my fish, or do I need to do
more research on the disease? Is there a site that I can compare
pictures to?
<Yes and yes, but you really need to get/use a microscope... Do read
here:http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ProtozoanDisFSW.htm
and consider Quinine instead of Cu>
3) How long should I fallow the FOWLR tank?
<Weeks...>
Is it possible to bleach the tank instead of going through the
long procedure?
<Yes>
I'd like to take the tank down and do some work on the sump since
everything is messed up. I understand that I still need to
quarantine the fish during that time and treat them if needed.
4) Should I setup the 25G quarantine with a higher temperature around
85 deg, and lower salinity?
<Can be beneficial, though will raise the metabolic rate of the
fishes, lower gaseous solubility... a narrower range of safety>
Thanks,
Andrew
<Welcome. Bob Fenner>
Re: New fish RIP, Questions on Quarantine tank, fallow tank or
bleach 2/1/12
Bob,
<And>
Do I have to do anything special with the rock if I bleach it?
Will it still be usable, or would it ruin it permanently?
<Bleach, rinse, let air dry>
I ordered some Quinine (CryptPro). Can I re-use the substrate, or
do I have to trash that?
It is crushed coral? Maybe I can bake it and the rocks to
avoid bleach?
<Can bleach, rinse, re-use>
Anyways, thanks for the help again. Great site that is very very
helpful!
Thanks again.
Andrew
<And welcome again. BobF>

Fallow question 3/26/11
Hi WWM crew,
<Adam>
Hopefully a quick fallow question. I recently set up a new 150. I had a
crypto infestation in the old 72. Moved the rock and coral to the new
tank. No sand or water besides what transferred in the swap.
<Anything wet...>
Left it fallow for 8 weeks. In the mean time treated the 72 with 2
three week treatments of Chloroquine Phosphate. Should it be safe to
move the fish to the new DT now?
Thanks!
Adam
<Mmm, would be safer to wait a few weeks more... but I give you
90-95% (with high levels of confidence) of potentially safe here. Bob
Fenner>

tank fallow 1/7/11
Hi Crew, hope you all had a relaxing holiday!
I have a question regarding how many weeks a tank should go fallow
after an outbreak of velvet. I've read on WWM that 8-10 weeks is
optimal. I have no problem with that. I've been referred to a local
LFS who is a veterinarian, he specializes in birds and has over 30
years in the saltwater hobby. I was lucky enough to speak with him a
couple of weeks ago and his recommendation is 4 months fallow!
<Well... the longer the better... but after several weeks, there is
tremendous depreciation on improvement>
He initially recommended 3 and said to be safe I should shoot for 4.
Now, I'll do whatever it takes, as this occurrence of velvet wiped
out all of my livestock. What is your opinion on this? He also
quarantines and treats all his fish for 5 weeks before sale,
<Commendable>
his method of treatment is chloriquinne.
<Misspelled>
He informed me his fish would need no quarantine and would be ready to
put in my display tank straight from his shop.
<Okay>
He is a member of the NJ reefers club
<A good group I'd warrant>
and is highly regarded. Just wanted your opinion on his methods in
addition to his suggestions on the 4 months fallow recommendation.
Thanks for all your guidance!
<Welcome! Please read here re: http://wetwebmedia.com/fallowtkfaqs.htm
Bob Fenner>Re: tank fallow, 120 gal. FOWLR stkg. 1/8/11
Hi Bob, sorry for the misspell.
<No worries. Just want you to be able to search/look up>
Did a spell-check and Microsoft Word didn't have a suggestion for
Chloroquine.
<This and quite a few other terms I've found>
I went with the spelling Dr. Jim had on his website.
<! Surprising>
I just wanted to run my stocking list by you for your opinion.
I have a 120 gallon fowlr. Water quality has always been good, ammonia
0, nitrite 0, nitrate never more than 20ppm, 8.2 ph at 78. System is 9
months mature. I'd like the following, all small - medium size and
plan on a larger aquarium in about 3 years or so.
- French Angel
<Will need more room>
- Kole tang
- Coral Beauty
- Red Sea Sailfin Tang
<And this>
- 2 clownfish
Do you feel 8 weeks fallow is as sufficient as the 4 month
suggestion?
<I do... please read:
Thank you for your time!
Brian

Coral in fallow period, 6/3/10
Good afternoon WWM Crew
<Hello>
I hope I have a simple question for a simple answer. I am currently
running in my fallow period, and will not make the no quarantine tank
mistake again. The tank has been fallow for a week now. Can I continue
to add coral and shrimp, since they are not infected by my lovely crypt
problem?
<While the corals and shrimp cannot carry the parasite there is some
risk of bringing in new tomonts or theronts if the new additions were
housed in systems with infected fish. This is one of the reasons that
people often recommend QTing everything wet.>
Or simply point me in the proper place in your wealth of information on
the site.
< http://www.wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm>
Thanks for the help.
<Welcome>
<Chris>

Re: 08/03/10 Still confused....
Quarantine tanks... Velvet, Fallow period interval percentage success
guesses 3/11/10
<Hi Jason>
OK, sounds good. Now my question to you is: Bob states in his
literature that no remedy for Velvet is 100% effective, what are my
chances of the Velvet parasite being killed off or eradicated after a
full 8 weeks fallow time?
<Mmm...the longer you leave it, the better the chance. The most
likely outcome is that 99.9% of the parasites will have died off, and a
small number remain. By removing this 99% you reduce the numbers down
to a level that is tolerable by the fishes, who may have some acquired
immunity, and good care from now on re: their health, not overstocking
your tank, reducing stress as much as possible will see you through.
This is certainly the case with the very similar parasite Crypt, where
REALLY long periods (3 months or more) would sometimes be needed to get
completely rid. Impractical for most people and fishes. The other thing
is, nobody really knows if you are completely 'rid' or not,
since a combination of low virulence and healthy fishes will exhibit no
outward signs at all. This reminds me of this:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/7/aaeditorial >.
I had a SEVERE case of velvet about two months ago and I am just
worried that it's still living inside the tank (in the sand bed of
2.5" and within the 55lbs. of live rock in the tank).
<Could be. Once in, these parasites are so difficult to get out.
This is one reason why when setting up a new system it should always be
left for at least three months before fishes are added. Then, if the
fishes are quarantined correctly before introduction, these problems
can be avoided. My protocol at the moment is prophylactic treating with
Chloroquine Phosphate>
If you had to surmise the probability in percentage that the Velvet is
no longer alive in my tank, what would that percentage be? Or.....the
odds, if you will?
<I am no scientist, Jason, and my guess would be just that - a
guess. What is working in your favour however, is the fact that these
parasites have been battled by many aquarists over the years and it
seems that 8 weeks is the general consensus for 'about the
right' amount of time>.
Once again, thanks
<No problem, Simon>

Quick question regarding running a tank fallow
7/4/08 I was thinking of running my tank fallow for 2 months after a
ich outbreak. I have all my fish in quarantine. <Okay> So, the
question is this... do I need to feed ammonia into the tank somehow to
keep my bacteria all alive? I don't want to reintroduce my fish in
2 months to a tank which has almost no bacteria left alive since there
wasn't any fish poo to feed off, and make my tank cycle and perhaps
kill off my fish because there aren't enough bacteria to deal with
the load. <Can add a little source of ammonia... likely some flake
food is best. Bob Fenner>

Questions Re: Going Fallow 6/27/08 Crew, I will be
taking advantage of very low stocking levels in my 200-gallon FOWLR to
allow the display tank to go fallow for the duration of a newly
purchased lionfish's quarantine period. To facilitate this,
I'll be moving the only fish (a percula clown and a marine beta)
into a divided section of the 55-gallon quarantine tank with the lion
for 8 weeks. I have a question with regard to going fallow. Upon
removing the fish from the 200-gallon display system, would I
essentially also be removing the source of nutrients for the biological
filter? <To an extent, yes...> If there are no fish in the tank
to feed or produce organic wastes for 8 weeks, will this thin the ranks
of my colonies such that the system will be ill-equipped to support the
waste factory that is the 11" lion when he is finally introduced?
<Likely will be okay... this is a large enough volume... If
concerned...> If this is the case, how should I maintain it? <You
could add a source of ammonia... likely proteinaceous food of some
sort... in the duration...> There are three stars and a few dozen
hermit crabs remaining in the display tank that will need to be fed
during this period. <Oh! Then I would not be further concerned>
Will these feedings be enough to sustain the filter? <Yes,
assuredly> Also, I have a stubborn film of brown algae on the sand
that I would like to address during this fallow period, if possible. My
idea is to "blackout" the tank for 8 weeks by leaving the
lights completely off, hopefully starving the algae into some form of
retreat. First, in terms of the algae, does this approach make sense?
<Mmm, not really... as the chemical, physical conditions that
"allow" it will be retained... it will come back until these
are addressed. See WWM re nutrient limitation, competition,
predation...> Secondly, in terms of the remaining residents, will
this have any adverse affects on the stars, crabs, or filter?
<Likely so> Thanks very much. Fred Warren <Welcome. Bob
Fenner>

Ich Treatment Options 6/4/08 The Fallow Aquarium
Approach To Fighting Ich! Hi, <Hey there! Scott F. in today!> I
have a question for you. I have a standard 90g tank
(48"x18"x24") with the following livestock: Purple Tang
(3.5") Kole Tang (4") Foxface (4") Percula Clownfish
(2") 3 Chromis (1") Anyway, for various unmentionable reasons
(read: rushed quarantine) my Purple Tang is exhibiting the early stages
of ich. <Uh-ohh..> I noticed maybe 3-4 white specs on his body
and two on a fin. Because of this, I fired up the old quarantine tank
(20L with hang on power filter) to isolate the tang. Unfortunately, I
had to go out and pick up another 20L and a 10G to house the rest of my
livestock, as I did not want to put them in with the sick tang for
several reasons (space, no other fish has shown signs of disease).
<I respect your logical approach.> I freshwater dipped the Purple
Tang for 3 minutes and placed him in the 20L quarantine tank. He made
it through like a trooper and after ~3 hours of recovery is swimming
around in his tank. I managed to catch the Clownfish and the Chromis,
and they are set up in an uncycled 10G for the time being. I am going
to have to do a lot of water changes to keep the parameters in check on
my 2 new quarantine tanks. <Yes, you will. For the future, I always
keep a sponge filter or two in the sump at all times, colonizing
beneficial bacteria, so that you've got one ready in a pinch
whenever you need to set up a quarantine or hospital aquarium.>
Anyway, I didn't have time before work to catch the Foxface or
Kole. They are both skittish/nimble. I fear I may have to dismantle all
the rock work to nab them. <Unfortunately, you might.> The
Foxface is particularly skittish. He changes color when someone walks
in view of the tank. I'm afraid that tearing apart the tank and
fishing (ha) out these last two residents will leave me with painful
puncture wounds and traumatized fish. <This is a definite
possibility. It is truly important to get these fishes out of the
display aquarium if you are going to attempt to affect a cure.
Fallowing the aquarium is a successful technique, as it does create an
interruption of the life cycle of the causative protozoa.> I have
read about the hardiness/disease resistance of the Foxface, and I am
trying to convince myself that it may be better to leave these last 2
in for the time being. Instead of tearing the rest of the tank apart, I
could carefully monitor the remaining fish for signs of ich while
monitoring the rest of the non-sick fish in quarantine (and treating
the Purple Tang with hyposalinity). If either remaining fish were to
exhibit symptoms, I would pull them out and dip/quarantine them. I have
been checking up on the Purple Tang several times a day since he was
introduced (fearing this scenario), and he was not showing any ich
symptoms before this afternoon. The gist of my question is whether the
benefit of immediate quarantine would offset the trauma the
Foxface/Kole Eye tang would go through if I have to net them out.
I'm also concerned with leaving any fish in the tank due to the
lifecycle of ich (leaving the tank fallow to kill of any remaining
bugs). Any recommendations? <Although your thoughts are certainly
well taken, I am of the firm belief that you need to remove ALL of the
inhabitants of the infected aquarium to assure yourself of the best
possible chance of success. It's not fun, and it's certainly
not easy- but it is the best (and ONLY) way to go if your intention is
to successfully break the life cycle of this nasty protozoa. The bottom
line is that if Ich is in your system, it's IN your system, and
fallowing the tank is the best way to address the problem, IMO. Best of
luck! Regards, Scott F.>

Rock Leaching Phosphate, Is It Harmful To
Fish?...And...After 8-Weeks Fallow, Will My Ich Return? -- 01/12/08 Hey
Eric! <<Hey Don!>> Hope all is well with you. <<Not
so bad'¦ Currently devoting most all my free-time to a very
large renovation/remodeling project'¦can't say I won't
be happy when it's done>> I have a question about live rock
and phosphates. <<Okay>> I bought some base rock cheap,
covered in coralline algae, and I know it's been in the tank for
over a month being kept with fish and other animals but they told me
that I wouldn't want it cause it leeches phosphates. <<And
yet you bought it anyway [grin]>> They told me it was cured so I
took it and put it in quarantine and I haven't gotten any readings
of phosphates. <<Very good>> Would the rock after being
cured be o.k. to put in the main tank or does certain rock always leech
phosphate? <<Most any rock can be a source of soluble
Phosphate'¦but your tests seem to bear out that this rock will
be fine>> Also do phosphates kill fish? <<Hmm, I suppose
there's a limit where it could. But in my experience with systems
with very high Phosphate levels the fish did not deem bothered
directly>> I never had a problem with it and tried to read as
much as possible but there were no FAQs that I could find about it.
<<Mmm'¦a 'quick' search turns up nothing
specific to this for me either. If I am off track/if more need be
stated, I trust Bob will interject>> I finally put the fish back
in the 210 after 8 week quarantine. <<In regards to your Ich
issue, yes'¦excellent>> What are the chances of the main
tank and fish being 100% cured because after this live rock is done I
was thinking of Hippo Tang to put in the quarantine but if it's not
likely 100% then I'll probably not bother with tangs. <<The
eight-week quarantine/fallow period will go far towards achieving an
'Ich-free' environment'¦for a time. But as I think I
have mentioned before'¦ This protozoan pest is so
'easily' introduced, even from non-organic and non-fish sources
(e.g.- live rock, inverts/corals'¦even from using a net from
another tank) that it is not realistic to expect to 'never' see
it crop up again. Thus the importance to continue with proper
quarantine, proper stocking levels/environmental conditions, biological
controls (e.g. - cleaner shrimp/gobies), et al. With these
considerations, I see no reason to 'stay away' from
tangs'¦though I might consider a different specimen from the
large and very 'twitchy/nervous' species you have
selected'¦perhaps Acanthurus japonicus'¦or one of the
commonly available Ctenochaetus species>> I really don't want
to break down a 210 tank again! <<I'll bet!>> Thanks
again. <<Always welcome>> Any chance of you going to MACNA?
<<Indeed'¦have already made reservations and payment to
attend>> I was thinking of going to Atlanta in September to go.
<<Perhaps I will see you there>> Talk to you soon. Don V.
<<Cheers mate. EricR>>

Crypt'¦How Long Fallow? -- 12/22/07 HELLO CREW!
<<Greetings Don>> Eric, with my new 75 gallon Q- Tank
/Hospital tank that I cycled because I only use Kordon's Ich Attack
(I know we can debate this for hours and I do believe to never treat
main tank.) but it works really well for me and I don't have to
keep changing massive amounts of water. <<Okay'¦I
won't dispute that you are certainly in the best position to know
what works for you>> BTW wife gave the ok on a RO/DI unit!
<<Excellent>> Any Way I love Tangs, Powder Blue, Brown,
Hippo's etc. <<Indeed these are fascinating and beautiful
creatures>> Now my 210 tank had Crypt 6 weeks ago and I'm
letting it remain fallow for another 3 months. <<Mmm, not
necessary to go that long for the Crypt alone'¦another two
weeks should be fine. Though it won't hurt for the tank to sit
fallow if you have other reasons for doing so>> I have under
crowded 75 gallon and fully cycled which consist of Tomato clown, 5
Chromis, a Fox Face and a Coral Beauty. Will Crypt be gone in the 210
so that I can choose 1 of those tangs plus the hippo or wait 6 months
fallow time (God I love this 75) or what do you think I should do?
There have been no signs of ich for 2 weeks on the fish. <<A
couple more weeks quarantine, without incident, and these fishes should
be ready for introduction/reintroduction to the display. As for any
newly acquired tangs, I recommend a prophylactic freshwater dip (do
read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/dips_baths.htm) before quarantine
and then close observation'¦medicating 'only' if the
situation arises. Then after quarantine, another freshwater dip before
placing in the display>> Also in the 210, is it really a case of
Crypt is always in the system?? <<On occasion a system might be
deemed truly 'crypt free' for a short while, but this protozoan
pest is so easily introduced in so many ways that the hobbyist should
always be on guard and prepared to deal re, in my opinion>>
Thanks again you guys/girls are the best! <<We're happy to
assist. EricR>> Fallow Period For Multiple
Diseases/Parasites? Bob & Crew, <Rick> I hope this email
finds you well. <Thank you my friend, yes> I recently had an
outbreak of ick, velvet and Brooklynella in my saltwater reef tank.
<Yikes!> In the process, I lost three fish. The symptoms were
white spots, dashing/darting, black spots, several light splotches
clumped together and rapid breathing. Also, one fish began to breathe
rapidly for several hours without any other visual signs and then died
unexpectedly, with its gills expanded (could this have been caused by
flukes?). All of these fish were carefully quarantined, save the
translucent goby, which remained in QT for a mere week (do to concerns
re survivability in a bare bottom QT). <Likely the Velvet here>
The surviving fish (Blonde Naso, Hippo Tang and Tomato Clown) are in a
55 gallon, bare-bottom quarantine tank, with PVC for shelter/hiding. I
am currently treating the QT with copper and administering 25 minute
formalin (Quick Cure) baths in a separate bucket, using QT salt water.
I have administered the bath once upon entry to the QT and intend to do
so again after two weeks of copper treatment. <Okay> My question
concerns the fallow period for the display. Given that the tank has
ick, velvet, Brooklynella and maybe flukes, how long of a fallow period
do you recommend. <Have you elevated temperature, lowered SPG? These
can help, speed the process along... if so... perhaps four weeks... if
not, maybe six, eight...> Will six weeks suffice to rid the tank of
the parasites? I understand that there are no guarantees, but I would
like to eliminate the presence of the parasites. As always, thank you
for your insight Rick <Should... eliminate most all. Bob Fenner>
Algae change in fallow tank 10/14/07 Hi Crew, It has been
a few weeks since I put my fish back in my 10 gallon from their
hospital after recovering from ick and all is well. I have a clown goby
and a spotted cardinal <Needs more room...> and they have been
with me for 3 years. I also had a pair of neons but they did not make
it through the ick. I added a new neon goby. Then last week my LFS had
a rainfordi which I never see around here so I bought it. <Ditto>
I know I will not be able to keep it too long but I really love to
watch it. I think I will be able to tell when it has depleted my sand
of the organisms that it feeds on at which time I will give it to
someone who has a much larger setup. All the other fish go crazy when I
put in newly hatched brine shrimp but this guy totally ignores it. It
is really a very peaceful group that I have and all are very small
except for the cardinal. So I have convinced myself that it is not too
crowded. The only interaction between the fish is when the neon goby
tries to clean the cardinal. Sometimes he stays still for the cleaning
but most of the time he does not seem to like it. The fallow period
during the ick problem really helped my tank. The pods were all over
the place, hair algae really dropped with only a few small areas that
still have it. So it is true that if you deny algae nutrients it can
not grow ( I did not feed the tank when the fish were out). The glass
on 3 sides is almost all covered with purple coralline algae. But my
rock has almost none. Why? Thanks for being here. Sam <Different
predatory pressures, a shift in chemical make-up with the fishes
absent. BobF>

Fallow tank feeding, and second Ich treatment 10/3/07 Hi
everyone, <Hello> My display tank has been sitting fallow for
about 2 month's (Ich). I believe somewhere along the line I
didn't keep up the proper level of copper in my hospital
tank's, and now I'm paying the price. The day that was marked
on my calendar, to put the fish back into the display tank, I noticed a
few white spot's on Clown triggers fin. Although he hasn't been
showing any other symptom's, I just don't want too take any
chances, and plan to put my poor babies back through another dose.
<Probably best> Do I need to put any food in my display tank for
the pod's while my tank sits fallow? <Not a bad idea to add some
food every few days, just a little to keep the biofilter going
strong.> I can still see those little guys running around, but I
don't see as many of them as I've seen in the past. Would
another dose of Copper Safe be too dangerous? <Obviously not ideal,
but best bet here. Safe than a long running Ich infection.> I've
kept the fish in the hospital tanks long enough for the tank's to
cycle. Is this enough time between doses? <Should be ok.> Thanks,
Pat <Welcome> <Chris>

Marine Ich Treatment 6/25/07 Hi There, <Hello> I
just got the itch outbreak in my tank. I have few questions: 1) Do I
need to move all corals, snails, hermit crab to quarantine tank?
<No> 2) If no, with corals, snail, crab in the infected tank, how
long should I run "no fish" tank to ensure all the crypto
parasite would be gone? <6 to 8 weeks.> Thanks in advance Hanson
<Welcome> <Chris> Hanson Vu-Hien Nguyen, Pharm.D

Battling Parasites With An Extended Fallow Period -
04/12/2007 I have had a problem with a 200 gal well established marine
tank for two years, but has had serious problems repeatedly
with disease for the last year. <Not fun at all, but it
can be a learning experience if you look at it optimistically!> Ich
and what now I think are parasites of some kind. I
have attempted to run the tank fallow and have waited 4 to 6
weeks. The tank is a fish only tank, now without
fish at the moment. It is beautifully decorated
with live rock and deep sand bed of about 5 inch. The
tank is covered with copepods much more than I've ever seen in any
tank and is the reason why I'm thinking there may also
be some type of parasite causing problems. <Well, I
don't think that the increased population of copepods is indicative
of parasites causing problems. Rather, I think that it's a sort of
positive side-effect of not having any predators (your fishes!) in the
tank! I see this as a good thing! One of the reasons it's a great
idea to avoid stocking newly-set-up reef systems with fishes for a
while is that it gives natural food sources, such as copepods and
amphipods, a chance to establish themselves. Yes, there are parasitic
'pods out there, but they are not all that common, in my
experience. I'll bet that your seeing an explosion of a benign
population of these creatures. Nonetheless, your fallow period is a
good idea.> In each attempt to add fish, many small
nodules appear on the skin followed by Ick. In-tank
treatment with Rid-Ich helps the Ich, but not enough to overcome the
primary nodules I'm seeing on the
fish body. This occurs with any type of fish
I've tried. <I'm very skeptical about the
effectiveness of so-called "reef safe" remedies. Treating in
the display tank is problematic at best, IMO, for a variety of reasons.
The better approach is to remove the fishes (as you have done), treat
them with an appropriate medication (I like copper, but it's not
for everyone), and a protracted fallow period in the display. Parasitic
organisms tend to do poorly when deprived of their hosts!> Question
is, if I leave this tank run fallow for 90 days will this starve out
all possible parasites as well as the Ich? <It's impossible to
ascertain if this is 100% effective, but a very long fallow period will
definitely reduce the populations of protozoa and parasites in the
display, perhaps giving an otherwise healthy fish a chance to resist
infection. In my opinion, such a "two front" approach (fallow
tank and treatment of the affected fishes elsewhere) is the best way to
combat such diseases.> Or, will I need to tear down and
start again? <In some particularly serious cases, this may be the
only way. In my experience, very protracted fallow periods generally do
the trick...Patience!> Or, is there anything I can put in the tank
that will eradicate all possible parasites? <Not without the
potential for collateral damage, as far as I'm concerned...not
worth it.> Thanks so much for your help. <My pleasure...Best of
luck with your battle! Regards, Scott F.>

Ich and More 3/27/07 Thanks for your time.
<Sure> I have a saltwater 75 FOWLR 60lbs live rock. I was looking
closely at some of my live rock and noticed some very small bugs. They
are almost clear and look mostly like very small centipedes. Any idea
what this could be? <Copepods most likely.> Also, I just
purchased a cleaner shrimp, do I need to supplement it with any food or
simply let it do its thing on the rock. <Will most likely need to be
fed a small amount of fish food.> I have had a fallow tank for just
over a month because of an ich problem. Should I go ahead and wait out
another couple weeks? <Yep, 1 more month ideally.> I have had a
blue devil damsel as a fish to help cycle my quarantine tank, can I put
him in there with the shrimp or is that bad news? <Not yet, but will
be fine in the future, although I would worry about it being aggressive
to other fish.> How should I go about making sure my tank has low
enough levels of ich to re-introduce a fish I have quarantined for 3-4
weeks? <Give it time.> Thanks for all the help and
giving us a great site. <Welcome> -Jared Hawkins <Chris>
Fallow 1/30/07 Hi.... <Hello> I have to let 2 tanks go
fallow. Ich/crypt...Arrgg!!!. I have some
questions. 1. I have removed all livestock (fish) from the tanks and
into quarantine. I can't get a snowflake eel out of the one tank
though. Will this be ok? <No, defeats the
purpose.> It's not showing any signs of ich. Do they
even get ich? <Yes> What about inverts such as snails, crabs
etc. Ok to leave or remove
also? <Invertebrates can stay.> 2.During the fallow
period would it be ok to add some ammonia (household 100%) periodically
to keep beneficial bacteria thriving? If yes how much and how often?
Maybe a drop per 20 gallons weekly??? If no...what would you recommend
to do/add? Thanks for your time.. appreciated....Pete <Just add some
food every few days, the ammonia is too complicated and prone to
mistakes.> <Chris>

When/If to Reintroduce Fish to Fallow Tank 1/23/07
Hello. <Hi> Thanks in advance for all the great advice and
information. It's always a pleasure to go grazing throughout the
site. <Thanks> About 10 weeks ago I had an ich breakout which
killed all my fish (75 gallon reef, 80 lbs live rock, 390 watts, good
water quality, deep sand bed). I let it go fallow at 86 degrees for
five weeks. <Ok> Bought a pygmy (cherub) angel and achilles tang
from an absolutely top notch LFS where they'd been isolated for 12
days. <Not the same as QTing them yourself.> Put them in fallow
tank, three days later achilles had half a dozen white spots (I'm
sure it was ich, after all, I'm experienced in the matter).
<That's why we QT before adding to the tank.> Took two
days before he'd enter the trap, during which time the
spots disappeared. <Will return.> Put him in a hyposalinity QT.
Its been 10 days. Can't catch the pygmy, but no signs of ich on him
either. <Is infected.> Question: Since the consensus seems to be
that its impossible to eradicate ich from a display tank, and since
achilles are ich magnets anyway and the pygmy seems 100% clean, <is
not> is it likely the fallow period did all it could and I might as
well re-introduce the achilles? <Did until the introduction of most
likely infected fish.> I'm thinking that the achilles
picked up the residual ich, the first batch of which it seems to have
shaken. <Or brought in new Ich, and did not shake, part of the
normal lifecycle of Ich.> Would have I more to gain by 1) tearing
down the tank to get the pygmy and letting it go fallow another 5-6
weeks, or 2) keeping the tang out for a few more weeks, or 3) betting
that the ich has been beaten down to the point where a healthy fish
shouldn't have much of a problem? <I'd go with #1 and QT all
future additions before adding to the tank.> Thanks very much, I
greatly appreciate the advice. Mark <Please see here for more
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ichartmar.htm >
<Chris>

Quarantine and Fallow Regimen - 1/22/07 Hello
again, and thanks for all of the great information. <Hey
Vincent, JustinN with you today. Thank you for the kind words.> I
have two risk based questions I would like to get your opinion on
regarding two QT tanks I have been running to treat ich.
<Ok> A little background, I have a flame angel and a kole tang
being treated for ich with CopperSafe. I monitor the copper
levels daily with the appropriate test kit. After 10 days
all is well in terms of fish health and the visual absence of
ich. I plan to continue for 4 more days before reducing the
copper level and continuing QT for 14 additional days.
<Should finish the copper treatment as planned and then maintain in
a copper-free quarantine for a minimum 28 days beyond the treatment
timeframe. The reason for this being, this will allow your display tank
to become fallow. With no fish to host the parasite, within 6 to 8
weeks, you can be confident in the absence of the parasite in your
display.> The questions are (1) should I extend the copper treatment
beyond 14 days to increase the probability of eliminating the parasite
and (2) should I do another freshwater/methylene blue dip at the end of
the QT period just before the fish are returned to the main tank (which
has been fallow for 30 days)?? <Yes to both, my friend.
See above for rationale. I would aim for closer to 2 months, for piece
of mind, and comfort in knowing you have rid yourself of the
parasite.> I know that both fish are very sensitive to copper, so I
wanted to get a better assessment of the risk/need for extending the
treatment period. Thanks again for all of your help. <No
problem, Vincent. You're definitely on the right track, just
maintain the fallow period for a bit longer than currently planned.
Always keep in mind the very accurate adage: "Nothing good in
marine aquaria occurs quickly, only bad." Patience is the key, my
friend. -JustinN>

Running Fallow 12/11/06 I have a 75
gallon reef tank. All the inhabitants have been doing fine
for the most part. However, I added a pygmy angel about 5
days ago and it is now showing signs of ich (never saw any twitching or
anything, but I'm pretty sure it's developing some white spots
as of this morning). <Twitching does not always accompany
ich.> I have read on your site that once there are spots
showing, a simple freshwater dip will not do; I need to run the tank
fallow for about six weeks. <Yep> I have a couple questions
regarding how I should go about doing this. First, I am not sure what
size tank(s) I should use for the extended quarantine. The
vertebrate inhabitants are: gold-stripe maroon clown (about 3"),
green Chromis (2"), pygmy angel (2"), lawnmower blenny
(4"), royal Gramma (3"). I have two 10-gallon
tanks that I use for quarantining. Will that be enough space
for them? <Tight but should work with lots of water
changes.> Second, I have a 20-gallon tank that has recently finished
cycling and contains only 2 small percula clowns at the
moment. Might I be able to move some of the potentially
infected fish (I was thinking the Chromis and/or the Gramma) into there
after about a week in quarantine? Or would that be a little
too risky? (The idea in doing so was to reduce the load on
the quarantine tanks.) <Would most likely infect the new tank.>
Third, if I put the QT SG at 1.10, does that negate the need for
medication? When I get new fish, I typically keep them in
the hyposaline environment for about a week, and give them a dose of
formalin and malachite green; but I have been wondering for a while
whether or not the medication was overkill. <I would not treat
prophylactically. Best to only treat when the disease is
know.> Thanks. <Chris>

Running Fallow Part II 12/12/06 Thanks.
<Sure> You said not to treat prophylactically; does that mean no
hyposalinity for new fish--or just no meds? <I would do neither
without cause.> I was under the impression that hyposalinity
won't do any damage (and I think I've heard that a sg of about
1.010 is actually easier on fish than 1.022 because 1.01 is isosmotic
to their body fluids). <The best environment for fish is
closest to their natural as possible.> Also, I don't
believe you addressed my question about whether or not meds are
necessary for treating ich if I am also doing
hyposalinity. <Hypo can work on its own, just make sure
to be accurate with you salinity, in other words use a refractometer,
not a hydrometer.> I guess I shifted the focus away from
that when I appended it with a question about preventative
meds. Thanks again. <One of my favorite Ich articles
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php , worth
a read.> <Chris>

Going Fallow...with Fish?
11/28/06 Hello, <Greetings, Mich
here.> I recently lost four fish from my FOWLR/invert
setup to an aggressive outbreak of ich <Very sorry for you
loss.> spawned by a tripped circuit breaker that reduce
the tank's temperature to 70-degrees for several
hours. The three remaining fish, a Niger Trigger, a Percula
Clown, and a Betta Grouper, have never shown any sign of infestation
during the entire ordeal. My question is: If
these fish continue to show no signs of disease over the next three
months, can I consider the tank to have gone fallow <No.> and
have reasonable confidence that the concentration of parasites has been
eliminated <No.> or at least dramatically reduced
<Questionable>? While I'm aware that QT coupled
with a truly fallow tank is the more definitive solution,
<Yes.> I'd prefer to avoid that stressor if the
fishes' own resistance is enough to essentially make them
"invisible" to the dreaded foe. <I understand
your thinking, but realize that the "dreaded foe" will
continue to live in your tank until the tank is allowed to go fallow
for 6 weeks.> Thank you. <You're welcome.> Fred
Warren

Crypt, Fallow... not reading, following directions in
writing... 7/28/06 Hello again, <David>
I
would also like to inquire about letting my tank go fallow to rid
myself of ich. First, is two months an adequate
amount of time? <Should be> Next could I leave my sand bed and LR
in the tank and would the tank still become parasite free?
<Possibly> For fish I have a powder blue tang, sailfin tang (both
around five inches), golden butterfly, three spot angelfish (both about
three inches), majestic angelfish (six inches), <In the same
tank?> a diamond goby, 1 percula clownfish, and four
chromis. All I have for possible QT's are a thirty
gallon and a twelve gallon (I know I am an idiot for not hooking them
up to use as actual QT's but there is nothing I can do now).
<For what you have invested... I would purchase another treatment
tank> The thirty gallon is run by a penguin 100 and the
twelve gallon is run by an eclipse twelve, I was wondering if this
would be adequate space and filtration for two months?
<Perhaps... with careful monitoring, ready changing of water>
Also what could I use for shelter for the fish since it should only be
a barebones system right? <Please read here: http://wetwebmedia.com/quarsysfaqs.htm
and the linked files above> Because these systems are not running
would it be ok to use my display water for water for these tanks since
the water will be being treated (this is the only way I see around
quickly setting up these tanks)? <... you'll be
transferring the parasite/s with it... No> Also what brand of copper
treatment and measuring devices would you suggest and is it hard to
treat with (I've never treated with it)? Thank you so
much for your help, hopefully this will work out. - Dave
<... keep reading: http://wetwebmedia.com/mardisindex.htm
Read, follow directions before writing us, please. Bob Fenner>

Running my tank fallow -
06/20/2006 Hi, Crew I have a question about guarantee and running
my tank fallow. Sadly, I just lost all my fish to what I suspect to be
marine velvet. As soon as I noticed a problem I removed all the fish to
a hospital tank and treated the water with CopperSafe at a level of
0.20 PPM within 24 hours I did not notice any moderate improvement and
then added erythromycin according to manufactures direction. I'm
not sure exactly what they died from. The main symptom was
discoloration of body. They may have had a bacterial or fungal
infection. I'm just not completely sure. Should I run the tank
fallow for a month or so or break it down and start over? Your
suggestions are greatly appreciated. Mark
<<Mark: Sorry for your losses. It's
tough when you are not sure what the cause was. Most
parasites can't survive without a host fish. For
example, with Ich, you should leave your main tank fallow for at least
6 weeks. When the fish our out of the tank, you'll
probably be surprised and the type of things that will show up in your
fallow tank. Meanwhile, you can set up a QT and buy one fish
at a time. After the tank has gone fallow, you can add your
fish and then repeat the process. Best of luck, Roy>>
Fallow tank issues 6/12/06 Hi crew - <Hi> Having spent
some time searching the website on dealing with ick in my 46 gallon
FOWLR marine set up, I'm doing the following: My fish have been
relocated to my hospital tank and I am letting the main tank go fallow
for 3 weeks. <Not long enough, at least 6 weeks, 8 would be
better.> Additionally, I will replace the poly filter on
my hang-on tank mechanical filter that may be hoarding the parasite.
<ok> Should I be doing any additional cleaning of the sand
(vacuuming it out) or should I allow my cleaning crew of hermit crabs
and cleaner shrimp (blood red fire shrimp and skunk shrimp) deal with
the cleaning of the ground? I will be performing my weekly
10% water change, but what additional steps should I be doing during
this fallow period? <Just continue your normal maintenance.>
Regards, Mike in Maine <Chris>

Fallow Tank revisited 6/12/06 Hi (once
again) crew - <Hi again.> Right after I sent this out to you, I
thought for a moment and went back to the website and entered in
"fallow" and found what I was looking for pertaining to
siphoning out the system. <Excellent.> Unless you have any other
suggestions, I think this will cover it. Although, I do have
several live macro algae in the main aquarium. Should I
remove these as well to help decontaminate the tank during this fallow
period? <No need, not a viable host for the Ich parasite.>
Thanks, Mike <Anytime> <Chris>

Going fallow for ich 10/7/03 If I were to leave a reef tank
fishless for 4 months would it be clear of ich??. If I left it fishless
for a year would it be ich-free?? Joe Culler <there is some debate
about this... but the answer is essentially yes. Of course, for it to
even matter, you must be employing very strict (30 day) Qt protocol on
every single "wet" acquisition (new live rock, fish, corals,
algae, plants, snails... everything!!!). Best regards, Anthony>

Fallow Tank Tactics Hello crew, <Scott F. your Crew Member
tonight> I have a Royal Gramma that just got rid of the ich by him
self, he looks bright and very healthful! I know it takes 1 month for
the ich to vanish from my system and the Royal is the only fish I have,
so my ? is to you.....Do you think it will be safe to buy fish in two 2
months or live rock? <Well, if you run the tank fallow for a month
or two, you should be just fine adding more fishes down the line>
You think the ich will get on them or will it be gone by that time?
<Well, if you maintain regular tank maintenance procedures (water
changes, etc.) during the fallow period, your tank should be ready to
add more fishes at that point> Thank you for all you do!!!!!
<It's our pleasure to be of service! Take care! Scott F>

Parasite Help - Ideal Time to Run Fallow?? I have another
question for you - I believe my clown have Brooklynellosis and I am
beginning treatment tonight. I lost one already and am not
overly optimistic about the second. They were the only fish in my tank
- 75 gallons, 85 lbs. live rock, 160 lbs. live sand (5" DSB),
Remora Pro Skimmer, 440w PC lighting - all water parameters are perfect
also. I have 8 hermits, 4 Astrea and 5 Turbo snails, 10-12
Bristleworms, 3 Peppermint Shrimp and a Sally Lightfoot Crab. I have a
couple questions: 1) What is the ideal time to run fallow to ensure the
parasite dies? <At least four weeks... the longer the better> 2)
Will the inverts host any, or can they remain without perpetuating the
parasite? <Can remain, don't host> 3) Can I add any corals or
inverts without causing further issues with the Brooklynellosis? <I
would not do this... add any more livestock during this time> Thanks
in advance for your help - your site has been invaluable. Jason H.
<Please read here: http://www.wetwebmedia.com/brooklynellosisart.htm
Bob Fenner>

Fighting Back Against Disease... Hello, I was
hoping someone could help shed some light on my problem. <I'll
try! Scott F. with you tonight!> My tank is about 6 months old, I
cycled with a domino and yellowtail damsel for about a month before
adding a clown fish, then about a month later added a lionfish, all was
well and a month or 2 later added a snowflake eel. <Did you
quarantine? Please quarantine all future new arrivals, okay?> At
this point the eel has been in the tank for almost a month. About a
week ago, the lionfish stopped eating and was hanging out on the bottom
of the tank, just sitting in the same spot all day and night.. <Not
always a problem, but worthy of concern...> Everyone told me
don't worry, lionfish can go on hunger strikes for up to a month..
but I knew he just wasn't right. 3 days later he died.
<Bummer!> Taking a very close look that day at all remaining
fish, the yellow tail damsel had white spots on his fins. (the lionfish
had none the day before his death and was cleaned up pretty good by the
crabs so I couldn't tell after) I also took a sample of my water to
the pet store and they tested it for 6 different things, he said
everything was perfect. <Well, it sounds, at least on the surface,
like you're dealing with some form of parasitic
illness...Wouldn't show in a water test, but potentially stressful
conditions that lead to illness would be evident> So I put the
yellow tail in a hospital tank cause my friend said it would clear up
in a few days. <Not a bad technique...I'd consider getting
everyone out of the tank, just to be safe.> I have kept a close
watch on the other fish left and none of them have/had any spots..
<Don't eliminate ich or Cryptocaryon as a potential problem
here...If you are dealing with this problem- it's in your tank, and
needs to be dealt with ASAP> Well today the yellow tail died in the
hospital tank AND the domino damsel died in the big tank!
<Yikes!> Also the clown has stopped eating (which has never
happened before) he is also very lethargic, which has also never been a
problem. So assuming things will follow suit, I assume
he'll be dead in 3 days time unless I can figure out what's
what. The eel to date is still eating well. and spot free. What disease
could kill all my fish in a matter of days, 2 of them without spots or
any physical signs (baring the not eating or moving)? <Take your
pick- Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, and others are possibilities...>
And how can I rid my tank of this disease without tossing everything
and starting from scratch! <I'd consider running the tank in a
"fallow" mode, without fish, for a bout a month, while the
remaining fish are kept in a separate tank for observation and/or
treatment with an over-the-counter medication, such as copper sulphate
or a Formalin-based product. DO NOT use copper (especially the
non-chelated type) on the Moray, however, as they can be adversely
effected.> My local shop is filled with young kids who might as well
work in the dog food dept for as much as they know about fish, so I was
hoping I could find an answer with you guys! Thanks much for your
time!! Mark <Glad to be of service, Mark. Do make use of the WWM
parasitic disease FAQs for more information on treating these types of
maladies. Good luck on the fight! Regards, Scott F.>

Parasitic Disease Counter-Attack! Hi Scott.
<Hello again!> Thanks for your help with my problem
<My pleasure!> since my last email I have lost the yellow
tang and fox face, :( the first fish I ever bought. <Sorry to
hear that!> Whatever it is has also taken 2 fire shrimp and a
cleaner shrimp. <Hmm...may be a coincidental demise of
these inverts. Ich is not really a n invertebrate disease> The
Cuprazin I have mentioned is a copper- based treatment available here
in UK, I have now cleaned out the quarantine tank and my reef occupants
are in there (fish only). Copper not good for the inverts!?!
<Nope- not good for them at all!> The reef is running fine
on its own with just the inverts and live rock, So I will run this on
its own. <Nothing wrong with that!> The 5 ft tank is
running ok now after the 100% clean out, so hopefully this will
help with the reef? <Well, if you are dealing with a parasitic
problem, running the tank without potential host fishes is your best
bet here> I will keep you posted as to any further
developments, many thanks, again Scott J Millar <My
pleasure! Hope that success in combating this nasty disease comes soon!
Good luck! Regards, Scott F.>