So basically the Browns forced the Raiders hand by knocking out Campbell. Figures, only in Cleveland could we knock out a starting QB and improve a division rival.

I can't believe they would give up 2 1st round picks for a washed up QB.I remember one of the guys on The Fan saying it would cost 3 1st rounders for Luck. I thought that was ridiculous until I saw this trade. It really ups the market for Luck.

Yeah, I don't believe we have a chance at Luck. I was just making a comparison to bounty that Cincy gets in this deal. Luck is a top overall pick with lots of potential. Palmer is a top overall pick at the tail end of his career. Maybe this is part of the Raiders on going tribute to Al.

And to wrap up the Luck talk, I think he ends up in Indy. Peyton comes back for 2 years and ESPN has a new topic for the ticker to replace Favre.

SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

hiko wrote:SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

I would also mention that 'talented 6'6" QBs' typically don't do a lot of apprenticing. And you also don't spend 2 first round picks on a QB you figure will be replaced by that talented 6'6" backup anytime soon.

hiko wrote:SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

I would also mention that 'talented 6'6" QBs' typically don't do a lot of apprenticing. And you also don't spend 2 first round picks on a QB you figure will be replaced by that talented 6'6" backup anytime soon.

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the reference about "talented 6'6 backups"... I assume then SD was talking about Oakland's version of Tim Tebow. Yes, the Raiders are in such a great place with their no picks, washed up starter who probably won't be in football shape for a month, and destined-to-suck-can't-pass-the-ball-for-shit rookie QB.

hiko wrote:And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

I keep thinking the only shot the Browns have at him atm is if STL out-sucks the phins and colts.

At that point, it would be hard for them to ignore us on the phone offering the farm for the kid because we can offer a shit-ton more than what any other team could really offer.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

hiko wrote:And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

I keep thinking the only shot the Browns have at him atm is if STL out-sucks the phins and colts.

At that point, it would be hard for them to ignore us on the phone offering the farm for the kid because we can offer a shit-ton more than what any other team could really offer.

STL is really the best shot, but if somehow Carolina gets the pick (unlikely) it could still happen. Possibly Jacksonville too, if they're dumb enough to think that Gabbert is good enough that they can pass on Luck.

But that game last night convinced me that 2 wins probably already puts you out of the race.

hiko wrote:SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

SD:

Don't believe the Raiduhs parted with two firsts for Palmer , what I've seen is a 2012 #1 and a conditional pick ,and yes three #1 's for Luck which would include our 2013 along with both our 2012 picks , wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at Indy something I've feared for over a year and why I advocated so vociferously that we should have pursued Newton who could have been gotten for less.

The kid Griffin is an immense talent , but raw as an onion , right now the best QB in the land behind Luck who could contribute immediately in an NFL set is Russell Wilson , but then we're faced again with a choice of a Brees like Munchkin over the more athletic types aka Landry Jones Barkley who has a quick release but suffers accuracy on deeper routes or Broadway Joe Griffin whose release is that of a Black Mamba strike , even quicker than Marino if I can say that without invoking sacrilege , but can we live with the growing pains of his youth.

The NFL requires a mental toughness and an overall awareness haven't seen displayed by this kid , whose athletic talent is off the charts .

You better have a 24 / 7 out of the box mentoring program in place if you make that move , just sayin .

Not casting aspersions because I base that on nothing more than a gut call.

hiko wrote:SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

SD:

Don't believe the Raiduhs parted with two firsts for Palmer , what I've seen is a 2012 #1 and a conditional pick ,and yes three #1 's for Luck which would include our 2013 along with both our 2012 picks , wouldn't even raise an eyebrow at Indy something I've feared for over a year and why I advocated so vociferously that we should have pursued Newton who could have been gotten for less.

The kid Griffin is an immense talent , but raw as an onion , right now the best QB in the land behind Luck who could contribute immediately in an NFL set is Russell Wilson , but then we're faced again with a choice of a Brees like Munchkin over the more athletic types aka Landry Jones Barkley who has a quick release but suffers accuracy on deeper routes or Broadway Joe Griffin whose release is that of a Black Mamba strike , even quicker than Marino if I can say that without invoking sacrilege , but can we live with the growing pains of his youth.

The NFL requires a mental toughness and an overall awareness haven't seen displayed by this kid , whose athletic talent is off the charts .

You better have a 24 / 7 out of the box mentoring program in place if you make that move , just sayin .

Not casting aspersions because I base that on nothing more than a gut call.

SoulDawg

Again, we don't know what the asking price might have been, so faulting anyone for not trading up is fruitless, in my opinion.

hiko wrote:SD, while Carson Palmer is a better QB than Colt, there's no way in hell he's worth 2 firsts. I thought the Bengals were gonna make Carson eat shit and die (justified), but Oakland made them an offer even they couldn't refuse. Crazy.

And 3 firsts won't even be enough to get Luck. And I'd do that deal (3 firsts for Luck) in a heartbeat if someone would take it.

I would also mention that 'talented 6'6" QBs' typically don't do a lot of apprenticing. And you also don't spend 2 first round picks on a QB you figure will be replaced by that talented 6'6" backup anytime soon.

Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the reference about "talented 6'6 backups"... I assume then SD was talking about Oakland's version of Tim Tebow. Yes, the Raiders are in such a great place with their no picks, washed up starter who probably won't be in football shape for a month, and destined-to-suck-can't-pass-the-ball-for-shit rookie QB.

SD:

let me interject this .

Hue Jackson was on staff in Cincy knows palmer and will play to his strengths .

The Raiduhs pick up a better deep ball QB than what they had in Campbell to augment their running game .

Jim Rome says a #1 pick and a conditional #1 so you might have nailed that one , but whatever you saw of Pryor as a Collegian .

e0y2e3 wrote:Final Deal for Palmer, instead of the conditional in 2013 it's a for sure second.

So for the corpse of Carson Bledsoe they got a 2012 #1 and a 2013 #2.

Fuck me.

SD:

The Raiduhs don't have a pick until the fifth round next year right now .

But man I'd take that bus ticket for a trip to the playoffs three QB's on the roster with game experience and a kid in the oven bigger than most offensive lineman and faster than anybody on our team who actually can throw a ball into the end zone when on the other teams forty and a minute left in the game after your defense recovers an onside kick and puts you back in a game you already lost .

Nope a year ago , I saw the demand for Luck being such that unless we went Oh fer 16 and had the pick outright that no amount of draft cheddar could pry him away from the wretch who held that lottery ticket.

Recently its become clear that Only the Rams or another team who just invested in QB could upset that equation , and frankly if you ain't the Rams and even if you just spent a #1 but don't have that cap hit to eat , there ain't a sole on your roster worth more than Luck.

Hell if Bradford leads em to oh fer 16 what stops them from taking Luck theselves especially since he's half the cost of Bradford and better ta boot.

Hue Jackson was on staff in Cincy knows palmer and will play to his strengths .

The Raiduhs pick up a better deep ball QB than what they had in Campbell to augment their running game .

Jim Rome says a #1 pick and a conditional #1 so you might have nailed that one , but whatever you saw of Pryor as a Collegian .

Fughgedaboudit fellas . this won't be the same animal

Hear me now believe me later .

SoulDawg

I will admit that I might be wrong about Palmer - there is a possibility he could be OK this year (and maybe even next) for Oakland b/c he's re-born or whatever. I kind of doubt it, but there is a chance.

But I'd put big money on TP never amounting to much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the passing skills and his arm is suspect. People like to compare him to Cam, but Newton has a good arm, TP isn't even close to him in that area.

Hue Jackson was on staff in Cincy knows palmer and will play to his strengths .

The Raiduhs pick up a better deep ball QB than what they had in Campbell to augment their running game .

Jim Rome says a #1 pick and a conditional #1 so you might have nailed that one , but whatever you saw of Pryor as a Collegian .

Fughgedaboudit fellas . this won't be the same animal

Hear me now believe me later .

SoulDawg

I will admit that I might be wrong about Palmer - there is a possibility he could be OK this year (and maybe even next) for Oakland b/c he's re-born or whatever. I kind of doubt it, but there is a chance.

But I'd put big money on TP never amounting to much in the NFL. He just doesn't have the passing skills and his arm is suspect. People like to compare him to Cam, but Newton has a good arm, TP isn't even close to him in that area.

SD:

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

The division is Kansas City, Denver, and San Diego. They could've started TPeezy and still have a shot at winning.

I'm well aware of the weakness of the division.

They ain't winning the division.

SD:

Even accounting for their intense rivalry , Denver is trotting out Tebow and The Chiefs are on life support , Haley may get replaced by Crennel before the year is out .

Nope their challenge is the Chargers however they have enough soft touches within their division where they could end up with a wildcard , notwithstanding they went undefeated within their division last year with less on the line.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

SD:

Brady in his second year after an NFL offseason was the kid who used to be bullied turned into the bully.

Pryor is not limited in strength , but a shitty delivery process which starts with bad footwork ,which makes him throw like a girl reducing the revs and impacting a funky spin on his balls .

With proper footwork technique and a million reps plus two models who can spin it to review everyday and exchange tricks and a team whose philosophy which has never been shy about going deep.

The finished polished product I see developing later will be as shocking as the transformation which occurred with Brady .

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

SD:

Not to interrupt a good rant with a fact or two ,

Remeber Belushi and his take on remeber when the Germans bombed pearl harbor .

Butt.

Brady was a second year pro in the game you describe vs the Raiduhs .

Vastly improved in everyway from that lightly regarded spindly kid drafted in the sixth as an afterthought .

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

SD:

Not to interrupt a good rant with a fact or two ,

Remeber Belushi and his take on remeber when the Germans bombed pearl harbor .

Butt.

Brady was a second year pro in the game you describe vs the Raiduhs .

Vastly improved in everyway from that lightly regarded spindly kid drafted in the sixth as an afterthought .

SoulDawg

You rarely interrupt with facts, just conjecture.

You are ignoring the fact that Brady had, or has a better arm than TP at EVERY level.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

SD:

Not to interrupt a good rant with a fact or two ,

Remeber Belushi and his take on remeber when the Germans bombed pearl harbor .

Butt.

Brady was a second year pro in the game you describe vs the Raiduhs .

Vastly improved in everyway from that lightly regarded spindly kid drafted in the sixth as an afterthought .

SoulDawg

You rarely interrupt with facts, just conjecture.

You are ignoring the fact that Brady had, or has a better arm than TP at EVERY level.

Clearly.

Which was the point I was addressing.

SD:

I always use facts to back up my argument, don't take it personal if the fact Brady wasn't a rookie but a second year pro obfuscated your agenda driven spew .

If Brady's arm strength was the asset it is now prior to the draft, or anywhere near what he displayed in his second year he wouldn't have been a sixth round pick.

Henson was the featured QB in that offense, and his arm was likened to Ellway having the option to be a QB or pitcher both , i fact he opted for the Majors to avoid a shit NFL team who had his rights, while Brady was in Carrs doghouse.

When Brady was drafted in the sixth , he went thru a metamorphosis not seen since Frankenstein grafted body parts together and made a new being .

He made the most of an NFL camp an off season and coaching and unlike Colt in his second year stepped up his game commensurate to the opportunity when given the slimmest of a chance when the incumbent former All Pro in Bledsoe got felled, and never looked back .

My point was never that Pryor had a better arm than Brady , but that like Brady who was lightly regarded thru an off season of conditioning and QB training and strength and conditioning training , the weakness in Pryors game which I contribute to bad technique which negates his true arm strength , will be overcome , and with the proper technique the true athletic ability will come forth , giving him a similar jaw dropping transformation people equate to Brady who seemingly came from nowhere as that same talent for the deep ball had never been as amply demonstrated to that extent when he was a collegian.

Hopefully I don't need the disclaimer , which says I'm not saying Pryor is better than Brady, But just in case there it is , Because I sure and the fuck am not saying that.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

SD:

Not to interrupt a good rant with a fact or two ,

Remeber Belushi and his take on remeber when the Germans bombed pearl harbor .

Butt.

Brady was a second year pro in the game you describe vs the Raiduhs .

Vastly improved in everyway from that lightly regarded spindly kid drafted in the sixth as an afterthought .

SoulDawg

You rarely interrupt with facts, just conjecture.

You are ignoring the fact that Brady had, or has a better arm than TP at EVERY level.

Clearly.

Which was the point I was addressing.

SD:

I always use facts to back up my argument, don't take it personal if the fact Brady wasn't a rookie but a second year pro obfuscated your agenda driven spew .

If Brady's arm strength was the asset it is now prior to the draft, or anywhere near what he displayed in his second year he wouldn't have been a sixth round pick.

Henson was the featured QB in that offense, and his arm was likened to Ellway having the option to be a QB or pitcher both , i fact he opted for the Majors to avoid a shit NFL team who had his rights, while Brady was in Carrs doghouse.

When Brady was drafted in the sixth , he went thru a metamorphosis not seen since Frankenstein grafted body parts together and made a new being .

He made the most of an NFL camp an off season and coaching and unlike Colt in his second year stepped up his game commensurate to the opportunity when given the slimmest of a chance when the incumbent former All Pro in Bledsoe got felled, and never looked back .

My point was never that Pryor had a better arm than Brady , but that like Brady who was lightly regarded thru an off season of conditioning and QB training and strength and conditioning training , the weakness in Pryors game which I contribute to bad technique which negates his true arm strength , will be overcome , and with the proper technique the true athletic ability will come forth , giving him a similar jaw dropping transformation people equate to Brady who seemingly came from nowhere as that same talent for the deep ball had never been as amply demonstrated to that extent when he was a collegian.

Hopefully I don't need the disclaimer , which says I'm not saying Pryor is better than Brady, But just in case there it is , Because I sure and the fuck am not saying that.

SoulDawg

You said:

"T peezy has more arm coming into the league than Tom Brady had....."

for the record.

And I never said Brady's arm strength had anything to do with where he was drafted. He didn't drop cause of arm strength, he dropped because they insisted on playing Drew Henson, and then Brady would come in and win the games for them.

Hiko don't call for the white ambulance or the guys and gals in the white jackets with those long slleve coats , but smoke on this .

T peezy has more arm coming into the league than tom Brady had and a professional body just short of a Greek statue , factor in a professional training regime ,and having the luxury of carrying a clipboard behind a Palmer and viewing the erratic Boller first hand while factoring in the abilities of the man in the middle Campbell , place on simmer stir and watch out .

Won't be the first kid whose a far better pro than a Collegian nor the last .

SoulDawg

We'll have to pin this for another year, then, since I don't see it.

I don't rightly remember what Brady's arm was like coming out of college (it's clear that he improved as a passer in the NFL), but his arm right now is much better than TP's is right now. If TP can improve his passing, then hellz yeah he's got a shot.

Brady's arm was better coming out of college, just as it is today.

And it's wasn't, or isn't close.

As anyone watching him throw ropes through the snow as a rookie against these very Raiders could tell you.

Those are facts.

Now if we want to throw something against the wall, and say a "mechanics change" is going to give him a better arm, well, go ahead and pretend.

But make no mistake, right now, it isn't, and never was true.

Also worth noting is one of these guys actually knows how to pass the ball with his arm, and one doesn't have all that a great of an idea.

SD:

Not to interrupt a good rant with a fact or two ,

Remeber Belushi and his take on remeber when the Germans bombed pearl harbor .

Butt.

Brady was a second year pro in the game you describe vs the Raiduhs .

Vastly improved in everyway from that lightly regarded spindly kid drafted in the sixth as an afterthought .

SoulDawg

You rarely interrupt with facts, just conjecture.

You are ignoring the fact that Brady had, or has a better arm than TP at EVERY level.

Clearly.

Which was the point I was addressing.

SD:

I always use facts to back up my argument, don't take it personal if the fact Brady wasn't a rookie but a second year pro obfuscated your agenda driven spew .

If Brady's arm strength was the asset it is now prior to the draft, or anywhere near what he displayed in his second year he wouldn't have been a sixth round pick.

Henson was the featured QB in that offense, and his arm was likened to Ellway having the option to be a QB or pitcher both , i fact he opted for the Majors to avoid a shit NFL team who had his rights, while Brady was in Carrs doghouse.

When Brady was drafted in the sixth , he went thru a metamorphosis not seen since Frankenstein grafted body parts together and made a new being .

He made the most of an NFL camp an off season and coaching and unlike Colt in his second year stepped up his game commensurate to the opportunity when given the slimmest of a chance when the incumbent former All Pro in Bledsoe got felled, and never looked back .

My point was never that Pryor had a better arm than Brady , but that like Brady who was lightly regarded thru an off season of conditioning and QB training and strength and conditioning training , the weakness in Pryors game which I contribute to bad technique which negates his true arm strength , will be overcome , and with the proper technique the true athletic ability will come forth , giving him a similar jaw dropping transformation people equate to Brady who seemingly came from nowhere as that same talent for the deep ball had never been as amply demonstrated to that extent when he was a collegian.

Hopefully I don't need the disclaimer , which says I'm not saying Pryor is better than Brady, But just in case there it is , Because I sure and the fuck am not saying that.

SoulDawg

You said:

"T peezy has more arm coming into the league than Tom Brady had....."

for the record.

And I never said Brady's arm strength had anything to do with where he was drafted. He didn't drop cause of arm strength, he dropped because they insisted on playing Drew Henson, and then Brady would come in and win the games for them.

And no agenda driven spew, just clearing up a fact.

SD:

We'll have to agree to disagree , because nobody can meter their strength , then and now .

i stand by my statement Pryor has more physical strength coming in , however Brady was more refined then as now , and while Pryor flails away fighting himself Brady produces results with seemingly effortless ease like a Pro Golfer, but its a supremely coordinated masterful stroke which produces effortless power , while Pryor's combination of screwed up footwork a funky inconsistant delivery and assorted gum in the works produces powerless effort.

File this one away , for the time when Pryor hits the field next year or later , and if he's dribbling off the receivers shoe tops like what our guy is doing now and can't wing that puppy down the field seemingly butt with a flick of the wrist .

peeker643 wrote:But from a Bengals standpoint? Well done. They played that hand beautifully.

As far as the deal goes, incredible deal for Cinc. But they get no credit from me.Mike Brown is stubborn as hell and was prepared to let Palmer twist in the wind all season. Getting no value for the quitter, out of spite. He just got incredibly lucky.

If the Browns don't break Campbell's whatever, the trade deadline goes by and Palmer's value diminishes. And no other team was going to give up that much, either now or in the offseason.

peeker643 wrote:But from a Bengals standpoint? Well done. They played that hand beautifully.

As far as the deal goes, incredible deal for Cinc. But they get no credit from me.Mike Brown is stubborn as hell and was prepared to let Palmer twist in the wind all season. Getting no value for the quitter, out of spite. He just got incredibly lucky.

If the Browns don't break Campbell's whatever, the trade deadline goes by and Palmer's value diminishes. And no other team was going to give up that much, either now or in the offseason.

Not sure he got incredibly lucky. Stupid and belligerent, maybe. But he played the hand pretty damn well, if you ask me.