Thursday, November 30, 2017

Exotic Road Bike Shootout!!!

Secondly, on Monday I talked about the wood bike and since then I've performed some scientific experimentation. Specifically, I took the fancy crabon wheels off of it and put them on my Ritte:

Which in turn made the Renovo the recipient of a pair of cheap pre-built Shimanos:

The idea here was two-fold:

1) See how much the Renovo owed its ride quality to the crabon;
2) Determine if said crabon is the source of the creaking I've been experiencing, since it had all the hallmarks of a rear hub issue scenario.

Let's address the simpler issue first: did swapping wheels eliminate the creak? No, it did not. The wooden bike still creaks. So clearly something else is going on, and you can rest assured I'll be conducting a thorough investigation.

As for how this Shimano technology trickled down to me, they're the wheels that came on my Milwaukee, and they generally sell for about $200. Since then they've bounced around between my bendy-bar bikes, and they've been perfectly serviceable.

Of course I also had to swap the cassettes, since the wooden bike is 11-speed and the Ritte is 10-speed. And yes, I remembered to swap the brake pads, since naturally you've got to use special pads with the crabon, which is the second-most annoying thing crabon wheel enthusiasts like to point out, just after reminding you to toe in the brakes.

As for tires, the crabon wheels have (or "wear," as the bike reviewers like to say, barf) 23mm Continental Grand Prix 4000s, and the Shimanos have (or "are shod in," which is even worse than "wear") 25mm Continental Gatorskins.

If you're wondering #whatpressureyourunning, I'll never tell.

NEVER!!!

Anyway, after putting everything together I first headed out on the wooden bike. As much as I tend to be skeptical about fancy equipment, I figured I'd notice the $1,500 wheel downgrade immediately. Not so. Indeed, the bike felt more or less the same (and that includes the creaking, unfortunately), though I thought I detected maybe a bit less shock absorption on rough pavement--and when I say rough pavement, I mean it:

There are some fucked-up streets around here.

Then again, I couldn't be sure the bike felt a tiny bit harsher with the metal wheels, and even if it did maybe the real difference was the tires. (I'm assuming the Grand Prix 4000s have a higher TPI than the Gatorskins, but I'm too lazy to look them up.) Regardless, when you find yourself thinking that way it means whatever tiny differences may or may not exist don't mean shit.

What I did notice right away though was how much better the braking was with the metal wheels. This isn't to say braking with the crabon wheels is bad; not at all. It's perfectly predictable. At the same time though it's loud--scraping, with some occasional howling. It sounds like cantis in a muddy cyclocross race, but all the time. I'm sure some people like that because they associate it with the raw performance of crabon, but to me it's at odds with the air of ostensible refinement the wooden bike seems to want to convey. (And YES I'M USING THE GODDAMN CRABON-SPECIFIC PADS AND EVERYTHING'S TOED IN.)

In any case, I'd gotten used to this when riding the wood bike, so the first time I grabbed a couple handfuls of brake on a steep descent my immediate reaction was "Wow!" Smooth! Quiet! And while I'd never accuse the crabon wheels of being grabby, the metal ones are noticeably more stable, or progressive, or linear, or whatever term you're supposed to use as a bike reviewer. (I'm just gonna stick with "more good.") In fact, it was so much more good that if anything I'd consider them an upgrade--especially when paired with those Ultegra Di2 levers. Because while I could take push-button shifting or leave it, the shape of the levers happens to be fantastic.

Of course, there's a ready-made Fred response to all of this:

I absolutely agree that disc brakes are a solution to the issues carbon presents as a braking surface, but I'll also point out that IF YOU USE METAL WHEELS YOU DON'T NEED THE FUCKING DISCS. Also, I enjoy the weight savings of my integrated rim/700c brake rotor, thankyouverymuch.

So in short, the ride quality was pretty much the same with the cheap wheels, and the braking was noticeably better.

Next, this morning, I did the exact same ride, only on the Ritte with the crabon wheels. But before I address that, a few words about the Ritte, which looked like this when I took delivery of it in August 2011:

Other than that though it's been great, and maybe mine just looks that way because it's a prototype.

Regardless, once again it was the same experience: bike felt mostly the same, wheels might have been smoother but I could easily have been imagining it, and the brakes were loud. Somehow though the loud braking kind of fit better with the Ritte, probably because it's all rusted to hell. In fact between the corroded frame and the flashy wheels the bike took on sort of a rat rod street racer aesthetic that, quite frankly, I was enjoying. Was I enjoying it so much that I'd spend almost $1,800 on those wheels? Not a fucking chance. Still, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention it.

Oh, fun fact: according to Strava I climbed slightly faster on the wooden bike, so there you go.

So basically there are two lessons here: be wary of exotic frame materials, and don't bother with crabon wheels.

I keep thinking back to comments comrade Joe wrote a day or two ago in the comments section. They were basically supporting the idea that expensive stuff is good for the bicycle industry, and that the free market would cull out the weak products. Kind of a parallel argument to the "racing improves the bred" type stuff that was going around years ago. As a P-far enthusiast, I appreciate the classics, but I REALLY appreciate how much my full suspension, geared, hydro disc, pneumatic tire, etc. mountain bike feels. With that said, the general culture of obsession with all the tech stuff and associated hassles drove me to a rigid singlespeed for a few years.

I would love to hear the mighty Snobs insights into this stuff. Is it the products themselves, the culture of "techno- Narcissism" (James H Kunstlers term), or just the way these products are promoted that influences our opinions.

When I hear squealing wheels, it makes me want to ride the idiot into the weeds. All of my wheels have aluminum braking surfaces (even a few old carbon ones). As for carbon frames, unless you've bought a new one in the last 2-3 years, it has been found that older ones have a "use life" of only 5-8 years (because of cracking from the voids in the carbon layup). As for wooden bikes, watch out for termites, Gypsy Moths and the Emerald ash borer.

Crabon wheels, oy vey. They’re just money pissed away. Lately, new bike creaking is likely to start at one of those press fit bottom brackets pressed into composite. I have had two aluminum bikes now with BB92 (Shimano’s pressfit B.B.) and one aluminum with BB30 and only the bb30 ever creaked. Suspension bearings can do a fine creak too, but never mind that. “Performance” bikes are now more likely to creak than department store bikes. What a time we live in.

If past responses are any indication some people will accuse me of being a city-dweller who doesn't understand that people need to drive while other people will accuse me of living in a small rural town where people don't need to drive.

I finally realized what it is that I love so much about the Outside columns and the ensuing, and utterly predictable, outrage in the comments: you are essentially trolling people with the truth. In the Outside readership, you have an audience that is self-selected to value ownership over experience, and to equate getting outside to buying outdoor equipment. (Whereas I equate getting Outside to paying for a bunch of ads!) This, of course leads to senselessly expensive and impractical bike-and-gear procurement. When someone heavily invested in outdoor cred through high-visibility purchases is assaulted with reason by someone who actually gets outdoors and enjoys it regardless of bling, they feel a natural urge to defend their purchases, which futher leads one to question the job/commute that earns the money for said purchases while consuming all the time one would prefer to spend outside, and so on...

I might take the plunge and purchase the crabon wheel upgrade the next time I buy a squishy Barney bike. Although, if I do it, it will be only because Santa Cruz is offering a lifetime, no questions asked warranty on their crabon rims. The good old aluminium alloy rims on my current SC are beaten to shit and, instead of taking advantage of a lifetime guarantee (which does not exist for the alu wheels) and getting a new set, my only recourse is to keep riding on my increasingly wobbly wheels or pony up my own filthy lucre for a new set.

I recently splurged for a titanium bike and thought it was ironic that it had carbon wheels. not my choice, just how it was built up. anywho, since it has dick brakes it's not a problem other than a constant nagging fear that my wheels are going to explode at an inopportune time.

I just remembered that my old Grade School banned kids from riding their bikes to school, a few years ago......Why, you ask?.........Because there are too many cars pulling in a out, dropping kids off at the school. The sidewalks are full of kids walking to school, who live within a short walking distance, so the kids can't ride on the sidewalks.

There was a time when I would have been interested in “Vision’s Metron 40 is the tactical wheel essential to your quiver.” Well, not only do I have no options in my quiver, I even threw the quiver away.

You have failed to mention your use of a particular image in your Outside column. The image copies the style and subject matter of William Eggleston "Big Wheels." <a href="https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/william-egglestons-big-wheels-17143399/>Willam Eggleston's Big Wheels></a>

The use of an image following this school of photography is the equivalent of using a $2000.00 Crabon Wheelset. Your previous photography efforts have been for the most part utilitarian. I just want to know why all of a sudden you are using photographic technics that are such that one would try to use after taking an overpriced photographic course?

Wooden bike bottom brackets are usually formed from a punched-out, slightly irregular tree knots that are prone to creaking. The noise might also be the crank spindle: a 24mm bamboo shoot found on the "Ultegra Di2 Sustainable Edition". Still, the organic material fails to offset the toxins found in the battery and the carbon rims. It's so hard to do the right thing these days...

Metallurgist here. The corrosion on the Ritte seems to be concentrated in the heat-affected zone of the welds and around the badge on the stem (joining different metals together is a big no-no when it comes to corrosion). So those are the constructor's fault.

There are also small spots of rust all over that remind me of stainless steel with low nickel (so cheaper) exposed to chlorides. Since Snob proudly never washes his bikes and lives in a place where it snows, this might be road salt. Alternatively, I don't know how salty the water is up there (how far is NYC from the sea?) as that could be another source of chlorides.

Stainless steel is a misleading name and there are many different alloys that fit under that name. I think the Ritte rust is cool. I first saw rust on stainless steel with some old Eggbeater pedals made of cast SS and it dismayed me, but it’s clearly just surface rust and doesn’t affect the underlying structure. If I bought a high dollar frame that was supposed to be rust free I’d probably be pist though. I say embrace it, wash that sucker with salt water and make it a billboard for oxidization. Freds would hate it.

The only stainless steel bits in my bike herd are the S&S couplers on my neglected travel beast and yes the couplers have some blemishes on them. I was concerned about integrity and then I got distracted.

Bike infrastructure advocacy is always caught in a dilemma that's never more apparent then when talking about riding to school with kids, that is, arguing that the roads and cityscape in general are ridiculously dangerous and unfriendly to kids and need major overhaul while making the point that self-propelling to school is an extremely healthy and overall safer and more pleasant thing to do.

We've always ridden to school. It's 4 miles each way and my daughter was able to ride most of the way herself by the tail-end of age three (when she was still small enough to throw on my bike when tired). Other parents are impressed, for sure. But, sadly, not as impressed as when the dad with the Tesla demonstrates remotely backing his car out of a drop-off parking space.

We're almost done with this school, but I've made sure to drop the idea into play that the 10 drop-off spaces, empty much of the day, are taking up precious playground space in a tight urban setting.

If giving not-requested cleaning advice for Wildcat's Rust Bike is a thing we're doing now in lieu of talking about putzing with groupsets, then allow me to suggest:

Bar Keeper's Friend. Take a damp rag, sprinkle a little BKF into it, then wet that a little bit so that you have thick-ish paste, then wipe over the rusty spots. (this applies to WC's un-painted whip. Do not do this on paint, or you'll FIU.) BOOM. Minimum exertion, maximum effect. Fresh lookin' whip, and Wildcat is back to being the talk of the coffee shop.

Most of the money going into exclusive and highly expensive kit is dedicated simply and only to producing that gear in tiny quantities, is not available for purchasing magic spells that transcend material properties.

There's almost no end to "more expensive," because as things become more expensive fewer people can buy them, leading to drastically bad effects on economy of scale. If you and only two hundred other people owned an iPhone, the iPhone would cost an astronomical sum but be absolutely no better (and indeed possibly worse) thanks only to the fact that it is so expensive.

So it's absolutely no surprise that there's little or no detectable difference in the performance of wheels when dropping from ~$1,800 to "only" $200. Meanwhile, the $200 rims would be $60 rims if marketers had not detected and learned how to exploit our cognitive defects. And the $60 rims would be essentially just as good, except they wouldn't boost our self-esteem as well as if we're playing the role of sucker. $200 is for people who are mildly stupified, while $1,800 is for those who've been completely compromised by mental hackers.

About Me

While I love cycling and embrace it in all its forms, I'm also extremely critical. So I present to you my venting for your amusement and betterment. No offense meant to the critiqued. Always keep riding!