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I guess a (good) sax player can tune it instinctively. There's no need to pretune. They adjust based on the temperature of the sax, not by tuning to some other instrument.

I disagree. All wind instruments have to tune (and should tune before and at the gig), humidity, room temperature will screw up your reed. After a couple of tunes its always important to check the tuning. I really hate out of tune instruments so I always bring a tuner to rehearsals, first I check the piano, then I determine if the piano is tuned to 440 or whatever, so that I can calibrate the tuner, then I check everybody's tuning (you would be surprised how many musicians do not know how to tune their instruments properly). Electric bassists and guitarists are not that heavily affected as reed players, but if they're playing with me I want to keep check that they're in-tune with the piano and not just their digital tuners. (yeah I know, I'm a bit of a task master, but if the band is carrying my name then I'm responsible for the sound)

RE: Tuning. Yes, that's usually the first thing the guy will do, tune to the piano. As far as bass players, they tune the most, especially acoustic bass players, they'll tune even as they play. Although you can tell something by the way someone tunes his bass ...Another point of discussion because if you bring up the "That's not how you tune a bass", well I think you're really going to look annoying, although you might be right. I've seen a bass player -on a gig- tune each string separately to the piano. Well guess what, that piano had not been tuned in couple year (guess). The whole night, he couldn't find his notes. Well no $h!& !Vibes, you got a problem, because they don't tune ...

Well except for the first time and first few minutes a few months ago, the sax player never had to tune again. I guess she predicts the conditions (humidity and temp) and it turns out perfectly. The first time, she rushed in from another gig so that may have been a special case. So far, all have been in tune on the 1st tune of the set.

It was on the second gig that I asked her if she needed to tune and she said no need.

Very nice Knotty! Second one was really good. First one -- you have the same problem as I had. The drummer doesn't swing. They make these complex patterns and lose the groove. Then it was bringing everyone down and time wasn't tight.

BTW - first time I've ever heard you play uptempo. You did a great job!

I've been promising this so I will now deliver. One shot recording of Naima with a Latin beat. I had to redo the chords (double) in the iRealB App to accomodate a double time feel. This is the kind of styling I wanted to use for my gig.

Please critique. Sorry about the mechanical nature of a BIAB style backing but can't help that.

Nice one Knotty, well done on Cherokee. I agree with JW that your drummer is dragging the time some which makes it hard to play against.

JW you are sounding good on Naima, Very musical playing. Maybe you could break up the single line impro a bit more with some other contrasting devices, block chords, 3rds octaves rhythmic devices etc, but you are getting round those chords just fine.

Thanks for the feedback all. It's the first time I play with this combo, and I did have a bit of trouble clicking with the drummer's figure, though I thought it would get better with time. Funny throughout the night, I thought the bass player was dragging a bit, but listening back, I think you are right.

I have different rhythm sections coming up Monday and Friday, I'll see the difference.

Chris, I just realized that stylistically, it was along your lines of playing. Seems to work. I have to hone my style and for me it seems less is more.

Beeboss, yes I was trying to do that (block chords, etc.), but realized I lacked that skill. I was also irritated by little timing issues (like Scep), and legato issues due to lack of technique. There's stuff to woodshed here.

Just a note on the tune Windows which some on here enjoy playing at at leisurly tempo . There is a new recording by Chick Corea on his Return CD, which is a trio recording with Lenny White and Stanley Clark. White will never be my favorite drummer, but the piano playing by Corea is killer. Such creativity.

The version on the Cloud Pages site is different than the one that I was referencing. The Cloud Pages features Gadd and McBride, who I prefer to White and Clark, although Corea's playing is equally stellar on both. Just played Windows at a gig this past Saturday. I never tire of the melody, the changes, or anything else about this brilliant tune.

It is amazing out Chick (and other giants such as Jarrett) can play the fastest run, but each note is clear as a bell. In fact, this is one of the things I think distinguishes the true giants. Most good musicians, when they play a fast run, you know they are playing a fast run; it sounds exciting, but also a bit frenzied, you can almost feel the strain. When Tatem, or Evans, or Hancock or Corea play a super fast run, it sounds natural, like it was just the appropriate musical choice for the moment, and nothing out of the ordinary.

The word run though makes us think of a scale. But the masters, particularly Chick, plays any shape/phrase so precisely. And Chick does them detached. I think the classical guys would refer to it as 'pearly', each note a standalone pearl. This is so uniquely Chick.

I just want to know how to practice that. His fingers are like little hammers. Maybe the issue is that we don't have those kind of ears to hear the timing that precisely. Even among the masters, Chick is unique here. And his newer stuff is even more obscenely clean.

I have his original Matrix, and then one that he won a Grammy on a few years back and now he's playing lines at 400bpm easily. With even more clarity! It's just astounding.

It's a little frustrating to listen to Chick. He's one of my favorites but I have no chance of emulating him, even slightly.

Thanks for the feedback all. It's the first time I play with this combo, and I did have a bit of trouble clicking with the drummer's figure, though I thought it would get better with time. Funny throughout the night, I thought the bass player was dragging a bit, but listening back, I think you are right.

Good job on both BM & Cherokee Knotty ! To echo everyone else, playing with drummers like that (and I have MANY times ) , I compare to running up a very steep hill with a large bag of rocks slung over your shoulder.

You're fighting against gravity or in this case simply--forward motion. There *ain't nuthin'* either you or I or even Chick or KJ could do in a situation like that. You try and compensate, pushing the time more...I've stared into the faces of drummers doing this when I've been soloing as if to say, HEY MAN CAN'T YOU HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON HERE ?! It never helps. The only thing you can do is try to relax and just settle on the backside of where they're putting it--which can bring it back even further... It definitely makes for a long night and as I mentioned I've *been there* more times then I care to remember.

To my ears the bass player is also contributing to the train slowing down. A good bass player can help a draggy drummer by playing on top of the beat more, this guy isn't helping things along at all.

Nice solo on Cherokee especially under the adverse conditions...the other bad thing is on an up-tempo tune like that ; the more people that play on it (solo) the further the time keeps coming back--it can be brutal..

This is a real nice groove for this tune JW. I think I first heard Cedar Walton play it this way a long time ago.

Fwiw I thought it was very tasteful, musical and overall cool sounding but could have used a more diverse rhythmic approach at times. For me, over the whole solo it had a *sameness* to it. Your last chorus around 5:30 something it sounded like you started to dig in just a little more, maybe ?

I'll just add on to what BB said, in that more piano type devices inserted here and there would break up that *sameness* of the one note lines. Something like a full voicing in both hands where you are harmonizing the last top note of a phrase/melody (or at the beginning or in the middle of a phrase) can work wonders for getting a more full and interesting sound to the listener. And it doesn't even have to be a real harmonically complex voicing. It's harder for me to verbalize then to demonstrate at the piano... That's why I often refrain from giving more advanced concepts on internet forums....

You are definitely on the right track, keep it up. It takes a long time to assimilate all this vast info/vocabulary and actually turn it into music--on the spot, instantly, coherently and consistently. Not to mention with less then desirable and supportive rhythm sections....

Dave, I actually GOT the groove from Cedar Walton LOL. How precise you are!

I hear you exactly on the solo. In fact my teacher said the same thing. I didn't pace it properly and then I couldn't fit in other stylings. Yes -- I dug in but much later. I figured one chorus per style but it didn't work out. In this tune, maybe I shift gears faster.

BTW I didn't realize until later that the guitar in the backing track affected my rhythmic choices too. Since it would clash with my chord stabbings. So the block chords didn't seem appropriate. I'll turn off the guitar comp next time (I was using it to guide me in the form since the bassline is just a fixed drone).

In general - these long dragging ballads are so hard for me to create a 'story'. Maybe there's too much time.

But it's a great pedagogical exercise. I played this at a gig with only one simple chorus and the horns took the head.

Something like a full voicing in both hands where you are harmonizing the last top note of a phrase/melody (or at the beginning or in the middle of a phrase) can work wonders for getting a more full and interesting sound to the listener. And it doesn't even have to be a real harmonically complex voicing. It's harder for me to verbalize then to demonstrate at the piano... That's why I often refrain from giving more advanced concepts on internet forums....

Do you have a recording where you do this?

EDIT - BTW - Cedar Walton's version is double-time feel swing, not Latin. I just listened to it. And another interesting thing, Cedar Walton's solo was just one chorus.