Official Group Lotus Thread

I notice in this week's Autosport (print) it is mentioned that GL's foray in to manufacturing Lotus Indycar aero is actually likely to be done by Dallara, continuing the theme of getting other people to make their racing cars...

I had the same thought... no doubt they'll dress it up as their 'glorious return to the IMS'!

I notice in this week's Autosport (print) it is mentioned that GL's foray in to manufacturing Lotus Indycar aero is actually likely to be done by Dallara, continuing the theme of getting other people to make their racing cars...

Despite the fact Dallara are making their own kit anyway? Sounds like the only difference will be a Lotus sticker, no point having two developments. Group Lotus adding their logos to other peoples work is indeed their new operating method.

Two bunches of people with aspirations to being something in their worlds. If Bahar wants to rule the racing world with the Lotus moniker, then he must admit to the world that he is doing it by proxy. If the Formula 1 Lotus group are doing their thing in formula 1 and have no aspirations to do any other racing formula, then as far as I am concerned, they do their thing and Lotus Cars go on do do their thing. If Bahar sees the future in sponsering every form of motor racing to get the name forward, why is he not doing bicycles? Lotus cars made them as well IIRC, as well as a host of other things from their design department. Did they not do what Porsche do with theirs? This whole thing is just nonsence, and if people paid no attention to them it would quickly go away. All you people are doing is giving them the attention that they want so that either of them appears to be the "Good" guy in relation to the memory of Chapman. H....sh.t the lot of it!

If the Formula 1 Lotus group are doing their thing in formula 1 and have no aspirations to do any other racing formula, then as far as I am concerned, they do their thing and Lotus Cars go on do do their thing.

That is the sensible thing to do to all of us with our heads screwed on. but not Dany Bahar

If Bahar sees the future in sponsering every form of motor racing to get the name forward, why is he not doing bicycles?

Its weird that you say that because as my personal statement on here I have:

I've contacted Group Lotus to see if they will sponsor my pedal bike so I can call it a Lotus!

Don't know whether to believe the Joe Saward post as he has been very vocal that he disagrees with what Group Lotus are doing, and also I have found an article that says GL have not secured the moneyhttp://www.autoexpre...investment.html

Don't know whether to believe the Joe Saward post as he has been very vocal that he disagrees with what Group Lotus are doing, and also I have found an article that says GL have not secured the moneyhttp://www.autoexpre...investment.html

Group Lotus did not receive any money from the British Government. They did however secure loans from Malaysian banks, which is what Saward was writing about.

What is the conclusion from the court case? Couldn't find in the other thread, could someone please write in a few words or provide a link?

The verdict was issued in May and Group Lotus lost (essentially). The second case never reached a verdict (presumably a settlement was reached which we don't know about yet) and didn't really have anything to do with their F1 entries anyway.

Anyway, http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95088 Ferrari Sauber and HRT block the name changes. HRT presumably as it could mean more money for them if Team Lotus forfeit their FOM prize money, Sauber perhaps making a stand after they themselves had to carry BMW in the name, and Ferrari because... well we can make some guesses on that one.

The verdict was issued in May and Group Lotus lost (essentially). The second case never reached a verdict (presumably a settlement was reached which we don't know about yet) and didn't really have anything to do with their F1 entries anyway.

Anyway, http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95088 Ferrari Sauber and HRT block the name changes. HRT presumably as it could mean more money for them if Team Lotus forfeit their FOM prize money, Sauber perhaps making a stand after they themselves had to carry BMW in the name, and Ferrari because... well we can make some guesses on that one.

I don't get it, you wrote that Group Lotus lost, but then in the link I read that Team Lotus must change their name, and want to change it to Caterham, so in which point ha Group Lotus lost, I assume not the name-case?

I don't get it, you wrote that Group Lotus lost, but then in the link I read that Team Lotus must change their name, and want to change it to Caterham, so in which point ha Group Lotus lost, I assume not the name-case?

The verdict in May allowed Team Lotus to continue to use that name and thus prevented GL from becoming Lotus. Nothing in the article above points to TL having to change their name because of legal reasons. Any name change now will be due to some sort of settlement having been made, wether that be money changing hands, Caterham getting a license for the Elise, shares changing hands, increased government backing for Air Asia etc and is not yet totally clear.

To sum up, Group Lotus lost the court case - it gave TL the legal right to the TL name. Any future name change will be the result of a back room deal, presumably with GL, Proton or the Malay government paying something as compensation.

I don't get it, you wrote that Group Lotus lost, but then in the link I read that Team Lotus must change their name, and want to change it to Caterham, so in which point ha Group Lotus lost, I assume not the name-case?

No, they are not forced to change their name, they now voluntarily (along with some cash, I suspect) WANT to change their name to Caterham since Team and Caterham are now owned by the same person. They "must" do nothing.

The court case was fought over control of the "Team Lotus" name and that was won by Team Lotus, the judge found that it was indeed different companies with different rights. Now GL (or Proton or whoever provides the incentive) has to actually buy the name instead of stealing it via the courts. All is fair and square.

The verdict was issued in May and Group Lotus lost (essentially). The second case never reached a verdict (presumably a settlement was reached which we don't know about yet) and didn't really have anything to do with their F1 entries anyway.

Anyway, http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/95088 Ferrari Sauber and HRT block the name changes. HRT presumably as it could mean more money for them if Team Lotus forfeit their FOM prize money, Sauber perhaps making a stand after they themselves had to carry BMW in the name, and Ferrari because... well we can make some guesses on that one.

So we have Ferrari, opposing it, I feel that this is not against Team Lotus, but Group Lotus, given that Dany Bahar didn't leave Ferrari on the best terms after costing them a load of money thanks to him getting them to become the of the A1GP, which then folded. Sauber objecting as well most likely as well because of the fact that they were not able to, and no doubt Ferrari's influence will have been used here, as they are a Ferrari engine customer.HRT, well they are just thinking of themselves, hoping that they will get some money out of FOM with Lotus losing it, but surely this would go to the enxt best team, which is Virgin.

Williams isn't so interested in this kind of name affair, I believe. If it were a rule issues, it's reading and interpretation and so on then they might have persuaded the matter to be discussed in detail. IMHO, this name issue should be the last one of this silly talk. To begin with just as it is noted in this thread, Lotus Cars and Team Lotus had begun a nice relationships in developing cars. All are lost now, and huge bank loan is on the future of Lotus Cars.

Expect to see the Team Lotus name ‘sold’ to Group lotus as payment for this deal.

That's a blinding good deal.

Bahar gets his Team Lotus name (a name who's perceived value ain't worth a nickel now because of all the mudslinging) to go with his Lotus Cars division (a company with an identity crisis, a $400m debt, and an empty showroom).

Fernandes gets a huge head-start on his plan to volumize Caterham with a proven, lightweight, sporting chassis, an engine deal (with RenaltSport no less- lol), has the engineers who built the original, and an infrastructure to open up to the lucrative Asian market.

Thinking about Steve jobs (like most of has done yesterday) I come to think that if anyone would venture out to buy a car that costs that much money (as much as Ferrari) knowing that the leader has made the company suffer this much because he wanted to make money (personnally as well) by selling it to VW. Clearly not the current Lotus Car fans and someone who see himself thorough figure of ACBC...

In some ways I think the name change shouldn't be allowed. The teams are usually known with their chassis name, most people don't talk about Lotus Renault GP or Marussia Virgin. Soon we'll have HRT changing its name for every season.

I know, but the ownership change is like internet age, like 24 hours based stock exchange going around the world and global economy. Something new, something is now inevitable, which does not necessarily mean that it will be the trend to come.

In some ways I think the name change shouldn't be allowed. The teams are usually known with their chassis name, most people don't talk about Lotus Renault GP or Marussia Virgin. Soon we'll have HRT changing its name for every season.

I agree, but the real issue is that this isnt the REAL reason. AS reported that there was no oposition to Team Lotus changing to Caterham. But the same did not heppen about the oposition to Renault change to Lotus.

The Ferrari name is no surprise, since Group Lotus said they were aiming at Ferrari, well... Ferrari has a long history of feud with Lotus, why would they stay put when they can disrupt? Old Enzo would proably even go further and call for a ban, he hated Lotus and im sure Luca has no love either.HRT and Sauber of course are simply asking a very simple question: «If they are breaking the name rules, should they not loose their money?». Both HRT and Sauber would benefict from two spots in the money bag, so in theory HRT would be aiming at a 9th spot prize money, with very little effort. And Sauber can also point at themselves as a good case where the rules were followed creating the most amazing entry ever: BMW-Sauber-Ferrari.This seems to indicate that the agreement calls for a Lotus next year, who demanded this would be interesting to know, because the most vented scenario was for a no change at Enstone next year with or without french money.

More likely both team are hoping to also have the option of a name change...

Strange then that STR is not involved in, or perhaps this is a Scape Goat for STR to just observe. They would not want to create (History) that prevent them from changing their name into Agag what ever sooner than what we may expect. Bu if this happens, it is a owner change, it all started by FOM/FIA asking for 47 mil entry money, which is now vanished. There are no new potential owners who aimed to go for "Start From Scratch" (except this Team Lotus itself who are now reverting to "new" from "History").

Very surprised Williams isn't on that list. Maybe they've already got enough on their plate ATM.

I am expecting more people to join the list opposing the name change of Renault, namely Williams and Red Bull. With Williams being a supporter of Tony, thanks to his sponsorship through AirAsia and Red Bull due to the fact Dany left them, after persuading them to get 2 F1 teams and go into Nascar before jumping ship to Group Lotus.

Certainly sounds like Tony's getting it done.

That's a blinding good deal.

Bahar gets his Team Lotus name (a name who's perceived value ain't worth a nickel now because of all the mudslinging) to go with his Lotus Cars division (a company with an identity crisis, a $400m debt, and an empty showroom).

Fernandes gets a huge head-start on his plan to volumize Caterham with a proven, lightweight, sporting chassis, an engine deal (with RenaltSport no less- lol), has the engineers who built the original, and an infrastructure to open up to the lucrative Asian market.

Clear winner.

No doubt if Group Lotus do get ownership of Team Lotus for the first time in the history of both companies, they will devalue it by sticking it on the new Ferrari Lotus cars.Them saying they are not going to use the Team Lotus name is total crap as well. If this was true they would not be trying to get ownership of it by taking the legitimate owners to court to try and steal ownership. And failed each and every time!

In some ways I think the name change shouldn't be allowed. The teams are usually known with their chassis name, most people don't talk about Lotus Renault GP or Marussia Virgin. Soon we'll have HRT changing its name for every season.

That is because most people talk about the constructor not the title sponsor. Marussia Virgin Racing is different to the Renault team. Marussia although being a title sponsor of the team, have also bought into the team and are going to aid in the making of the car, both things that Group Lotus have not done, and Richard Branson has even said that Virgin now are basically just a title sponsor. I am expecting that team to become Marussia Racing either next season or in 2013, possibly with Virgin still in the name as a title sponsor.

I agree, but the real issue is that this isnt the REAL reason. AS reported that there was no oposition to Team Lotus changing to Caterham. But the same did not heppen about the oposition to Renault change to Lotus.

The Ferrari name is no surprise, since Group Lotus said they were aiming at Ferrari, well... Ferrari has a long history of feud with Lotus, why would they stay put when they can disrupt? Old Enzo would proably even go further and call for a ban, he hated Lotus and im sure Luca has no love either.HRT and Sauber of course are simply asking a very simple question: «If they are breaking the name rules, should they not loose their money?». Both HRT and Sauber would benefict from two spots in the money bag, so in theory HRT would be aiming at a 9th spot prize money, with very little effort. And Sauber can also point at themselves as a good case where the rules were followed creating the most amazing entry ever: BMW-Sauber-Ferrari.This seems to indicate that the agreement calls for a Lotus next year, who demanded this would be interesting to know, because the most vented scenario was for a no change at Enstone next year with or without french money.

I forgot about Renault. But then, both Dany and Genii have said that there is no plans to change the name until the 2013 season, when they can do so without losing any money at all.It is plainly obvious Group Lotus cannot afford to buy the team and run it themselves, and Genii are struggling to pay the bills on time.

That is because most people talk about the constructor not the title sponsor. Marussia Virgin Racing is different to the Renault team. Marussia although being a title sponsor of the team, have also bought into the team and are going to aid in the making of the car, both things that Group Lotus have not done, and Richard Branson has even said that Virgin now are basically just a title sponsor. I am expecting that team to become Marussia Racing either next season or in 2013, possibly with Virgin still in the name as a title sponsor.

Well, Renault is only the engine supplier to LRGP which is commonly known as Renault whereas Renault's de facto works team is RBR.

Well, Renault is only the engine supplier to LRGP which is commonly known as Renault whereas Renault's de facto works team is RBR.

The team is still officially Renault, even though it is not linked with the Renault car company anymore except for being an engine customer.This was done so that the team would continue in F1, without the money the team has earned from the FOM it would be able to exist.This is why the team is still shown as Renault on the official graphics.

With Williams being a supporter of Tony, thanks to his sponsorship through AirAsia and Red Bull due to the fact Dany left them, after persuading them to get 2 F1 teams and go into Nascar before jumping ship to Group Lotus.

This makes no sense at the current scenario that is GL buying the name from Fernandes. Fernandes will most likely steer away from GL, all those who sided with Fernandes will also stay away, having more teams asking questions has little weight when the Ten Ton Gorilla (Ferrari) is already making noises.

I forgot about Renault. But then, both Dany and Genii have said that there is no plans to change the name until the 2013 season, when they can do so without losing any money at all.

Not if someone (like Fernandes for example) came to the table and said «Both change names or no deal». It makes little sense to buy something and not use it, if I were at Proton I would demand that name to be used for such a large pile of money/change/planes/stocks/whatever they used to pay.

It is plainly obvious Group Lotus cannot afford to buy the team and run it themselves, and Genii are struggling to pay the bills on time.

From all the reports I read it there is a common idea: Genii wants to unload Enstone, and their only quick option is GL, no one else on board wants to keep Enstone. From the looks, it seems there is a bail out option for GL, but we will only know when the magical 3 option reaches 0.I suspect Lopez and Co. will want to be in another venture when that time comes.

Interestingly Caterham Technology and Innovation Limited. who now employ several former Lotus Cars engineers are based on Potash Lane of all places… Curiouser and curiouser… There is definitely something brewing on the road car side between Caterham and Group Lotus.

This makes no sense at the current scenario that is GL buying the name from Fernandes. Fernandes will most likely steer away from GL, all those who sided with Fernandes will also stay away, having more teams asking questions has little weight when the Ten Ton Gorilla (Ferrari) is already making noises.

You seem to have misunderstood my post. I was saying that Tony will stand more chance of getting approval from Williams and Red Bull compared to the Renault team.Mainly because Tony has had a relationship with Williams thanks to sponsoring them through AirAsia, and Red Bull might not approve because of the way that Dany Bahar departed the company after getting them to invest money in two F1 teams and a Nascar team.

Not if someone (like Fernandes for example) came to the table and said «Both change names or no deal». It makes little sense to buy something and not use it, if I were at Proton I would demand that name to be used for such a large pile of money/change/planes/stocks/whatever they used to pay.

Can you really see Tony doing Group Lotus any favours after the way they have acted towards him.Proton will not have to demand it be used. Group Lotus will be planning on using it anyway, they only said they won't to try and make themselves look good and that they are the best people to own Team Lotus, but it backfired on them. They already have used the Team Lotus brand for their own benefit without owning it so god only knows what they are going to do with it if they do come to own it. The damage that people say has been done to the brand will be nothing compared the damage done if Group Lotus gets their hands on it.

From all the reports I read it there is a common idea: Genii wants to unload Enstone, and their only quick option is GL, no one else on board wants to keep Enstone. From the looks, it seems there is a bail out option for GL, but we will only know when the magical 3 option reaches 0.I suspect Lopez and Co. will want to be in another venture when that time comes.

But do not Group Lotus have the funds and resources needed to run an F1 team. That is why they went with the whole "sponsor a team and claim ownership" thing they are doing with Renault.Not to mention that nearly every other thing that they are supposedly doing keeps getting delayed/

Am I the only one who thinks this 'close cooperation' could be the thing that triggered Ferrari's 'doubts' over Lotus/Renault name change? Lotus is a competitor both on track and on the supercars market (is it a serious one is another matter) and Ferrari is not a team/company that would generously make life easier for their rivals.

I thought GL was supposed to buy into the team at some point not the team buying into GL, this will end badly.....

Everything is under control, they will buy the GL and sell the team to themselves

Interesting, J. Saward was right then (excluding motives not to sell to Fernandes). Maybe it's another "if", "we've got an option to buy in the future" "close partnership", "we'll see what happens" deal?