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Textodd, you and I usually agree on most stuff, but on Coach Wilson, I'll have to disagree this time, although I understand where you're coming from. I don't think Wilson should be on the hot seat if we struggle this season unless maybe we just totally blow the season and end up 3-9 or 2-10 or something, and here's why...

1) He had a lot of changes in his coaching staff to deal with this season. You've gotta give him at least some sort of buffer after replacing his OC, DC, DL Coach, and whoever else there may have been (I've already forgotten lol).
2) Granted we finished last season in very weak fashion (3 losses in the last 4 weeks), but we were 3-9 when he took over, then went to 6-7 and a bowl, and then 6-5 (no bowl). So it could be argued, based purely on our record, that we still improved both years. And in most other years, 6-5 would've gotten us in a bowl game, which would've been our 2nd straight, as last year was a bit of an aberration.
3) Some of us might forget how close our losses were last year. Four of them were by 2, 3, 7, and 5 points. Granted, it was because we couldn't finish games, but a play or two here and there, and we're easily 8-3 or better.

That said, I think that if we have another .500ish season this season (2018), like we've had the last 2 years, it's reasonable to take all the coaching changes into consideration, as well as a new QB. But if we had another .500ish season in 2019 (for the 4th consecutive year), even after he was given time to deal with the coaching changes and everything, it would then be fair to maybe start seeing what other options we might have because that would definitely make it appear as though we've plateaued, and just not getting the most of the recruiting classes we've had.

The Following User Says Thank You to Volkmar For This Useful Post:

1) He had a lot of changes in his coaching staff to deal with this season. You've gotta give him at least some sort of buffer after replacing his OC, DC, DL Coach, and whoever else there may have been (I've already forgotten lol).

Seven new coaches are on this staff. Five, including GAs, were with the UTSA football program last season.

Originally Posted by Volkmar

2) Granted we finished last season in very weak fashion (3 losses in the last 4 weeks), but we were 3-9 when he took over, then went to 6-7 and a bowl, and then 6-5 (no bowl). So it could be argued, based purely on our record, that we still improved both years. And in most other years, 6-5 would've gotten us in a bowl game, which would've been our 2nd straight, as last year was a bit of an aberration.

It was an aberration, we forget UTSA was penciled in for the Armed Forces bowl but it took a perfect storm scenario which resulted UTSA missing out. It doesn't absolve UTSA from their weak performance in the final month of the season but alot of attitudes would be different currently has UTSA made the bowl game.

Originally Posted by Volkmar

3) Some of us might forget how close our losses were last year. Four of them were by 2, 3, 7, and 5 points. Granted, it was because we couldn't finish games, but a play or two here and there, and we're easily 8-3 or better.

UNT, So Miss, FIU, UAB, all close losses this season. This was similar to the 2015 season, of which many of the 2017 players were on the field, where I believe there were multiple losses by 7 points or less.

Originally Posted by Volkmar

That said, I think that if we have another .500ish season this season (2018), like we've had the last 2 years, it's reasonable to take all the coaching changes into consideration, as well as a new QB. But if we had another .500ish season in 2019 (for the 4th consecutive year), even after he was given time to deal with the coaching changes and everything, it would then be fair to maybe start seeing what other options we might have because that would definitely make it appear as though we've plateaued, and just not getting the most of the recruiting classes we've had.

That sounds reasonable. Wilson's first true recruiting class was in 2017 and using the baseline mentioned in a previous post - "a couple of years" - 2019, in theory, should provide better results.

Textodd, you and I usually agree on most stuff, but on Coach Wilson, I'll have to disagree this time, although I understand where you're coming from. I don't think Wilson should be on the hot seat if we struggle this season unless maybe we just totally blow the season and end up 3-9 or 2-10 or something, and here's why...

1) He had a lot of changes in his coaching staff to deal with this season. You've gotta give him at least some sort of buffer after replacing his OC, DC, DL Coach, and whoever else there may have been (I've already forgotten lol).
2) Granted we finished last season in very weak fashion (3 losses in the last 4 weeks), but we were 3-9 when he took over, then went to 6-7 and a bowl, and then 6-5 (no bowl). So it could be argued, based purely on our record, that we still improved both years. And in most other years, 6-5 would've gotten us in a bowl game, which would've been our 2nd straight, as last year was a bit of an aberration.
3) Some of us might forget how close our losses were last year. Four of them were by 2, 3, 7, and 5 points. Granted, it was because we couldn't finish games, but a play or two here and there, and we're easily 8-3 or better.

That said, I think that if we have another .500ish season this season (2018), like we've had the last 2 years, it's reasonable to take all the coaching changes into consideration, as well as a new QB. But if we had another .500ish season in 2019 (for the 4th consecutive year), even after he was given time to deal with the coaching changes and everything, it would then be fair to maybe start seeing what other options we might have because that would definitely make it appear as though we've plateaued, and just not getting the most of the recruiting classes we've had.

I think we actually agree. I understand all those things but they also could be considered excuses depending on personal perspective. Unfortunately as you know, this is a brutal, results-based business. I just think him becoming the highest paid coach in the conference skews the timeline and ups the anty considering how underfunded our athletics program is compared to where we would like it.

Your points are all valid but I'm just saying, another .500 season and his seat is going to be really hot the following year. (Which is really what you said as well.) He's going to have to have a really good season either this year or in 2019 or he's probably gone considering the salary.

I also agree with FD, if we had gotten into a bowl, this wouldn't even be on anyone's mind right now.

If you copy posts from these forums and publish them publicly, out of context on the Internet to trash someone, don't be a pussy & hide behind an anonymous identity.

The really good coaches don't take 3-5 years to win. Because it's not about their players/recruits. They take what is given, coach it well, and then supplement with better players.

Originally Posted by Volkmar

Agreed, like Littrell. He took a 1-11 team to 5-8 and then 9-5 in his first two years at UNT. Will be interesting to see how they fare this season.

These are DAMN good points. That's what I'm saying. It's put up or shut up time for FW. We can all point to the reasons for this and that but good coaches overcome it. I've been as big a FW defender as anyone but the honeymooners are on the flight home at the very least.

If you copy posts from these forums and publish them publicly, out of context on the Internet to trash someone, don't be a pussy & hide behind an anonymous identity.

Agreed, like Littrell. He took a 1-11 team to 5-8 and then 9-5 in his first two years at UNT. Will be interesting to see how they fare this season.

Scott Littrell's defense gave up twice as many points in conference as did Frank (on the bubble) Wilson's defense. Three of their conference wins were by a total of 7 points. Yeah, they won the close ones and we didn't. That's the way the ball bounced....it could have gone the other way.

Also, if we hadn't stb on the last series of the game against them, and if we had gone on to win a bowl game, we would have had a better record than them. Their 50-30 loss to Troy was embarrassing. If, if, if ... just saying ... it's not time to make any long term decisions on the ability or future of the coaches on either team.

Scott Littrell's defense gave up twice as many points in conference as did Frank (on the bubble) Wilson's defense. Three of their conference wins were by a total of 7 points. Yeah, they won the close ones and we didn't. That's the way the ball bounced....it could have gone the other way.

Also, if we hadn't stb on the last series of the game against them, and if we had gone on to win a bowl game, we would have had a better record than them. Their 50-30 loss to Troy was embarrassing. If, if, if ... just saying ... it's not time to make any long term decisions on the ability or future of the coaches on either team.

So? lol Good defense + Suck offense = 6-5 and sit home and watch others in bowls. Suck defense + Good offense = 9-5 and a bowl. Besides, as solid as our defense was, they couldn't finish games either. They let USM drive 69 yards in 12 plays late to kick a FG to put them up 8. They got victimized by UNT late the very next week, in even worse fashion, as UNT went 98 yards in less than a minute. And in the last game of the year, the game that would determine whether we'd go bowling, they closed the season by letting LA Tech go 80 yards in 8 plays late in the 4th to seal that game also, when we were only down 13-6.

So? lol Good defense + Suck offense = 6-5 and sit home and watch others in bowls. Suck defense + Good offense = 9-5 and a bowl. Besides, as solid as our defense was, they couldn't finish games either. They let USM drive 69 yards in 12 plays late to kick a FG to put them up 8. They got victimized by UNT late the very next week, in even worse fashion, as UNT went 98 yards in less than a minute. And in the last game of the year, the game that would determine whether we'd go bowling, they closed the season by letting LA Tech go 80 yards in 8 plays late in the 4th to seal that game also, when we were only down 13-6.

The whole point of my post was to point out that Scott Littrell has a way to go before he earns great coach status. They won 3 games by a total of 7 points and were totally embarrassed in 3 other G5 games. Nitpicking a few lapses that the Roadrunner defense had is not relevant to my post. It was our offense that lost these games, not the defense. Right? Littrell simply has not proved his greatness. Maybe he will in 2018. Let's wait and see.

The whole point of my post was to point out that Scott Littrell has a way to go before he earns great coach status. They won 3 games by a total of 7 points and were totally embarrassed in 3 other G5 games. Nitpicking a few lapses that the Roadrunner defense had is not relevant to my post. It was our offense that lost these games, not the defense. Right? Littrell simply has not proved his greatness. Maybe he will in 2018. Let's wait and see.

Where did I refer to Littrell as a "great" coach? Of course you don't earn "great coach status" after being a head coach for only 2 years. You've gotta be pretty damn good at what you do though to take a 1-11 team and make them 5-8 and then 9-5 in only two short years. Wilson took us from 3 wins to 6 wins in the same span; not nearly as impressive.

And then there's this... Littrell took them from 1 win to 9 wins in two years, but you're faulting him for his defense giving up too many points? And I'M the one nitpicking?!? Surely you don't expect him to fix every problem a 1-11 team had in just two seasons.

Last but not least, another reason I'm criticizing our inability to finish games is because that's what Coach Wilson made his mantra last year. His slogan and focus from the very beginning of training camp was "Finish", and we ended up doing an even worse job of finishing last year than we did in his first season. It's not nitpicking when you criticize a coach for his team failing over and over again to do something that he actually made the focal point of the whole season.