For the love of God Oliv, PLEASE provide some BACKUP to your claims! I've never heard of the claims you've made and at the moment without back up, you might as well be saying Justin Beiber is the reason that the holocaust happened, because it'd have the same effect.

Logged

“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto MusashiWarning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Good catch. At first I assumed that our OP was engaging in the long, time-honored Christian tradition of quoting someone else’s words, as an alternative to critical thinking.

But a closer examination of the blog shows that Olivianus is actually the author. So it seems that we are the unwilling test audience for his deluded ramblings.

Olivianus, human trafficking has existed throughout recorded human history. As others have mentioned, there are multiple references to sexual slavery in your bible. Alberto cites some good examples on Reply #12 of this thread and Greybeard offers some examples on Reply #57.

Here is my favorite, from Deuteronomy 21:10-14.

When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.

Olivaianus, I would also like to point out that in the US a mere century and a half ago, Christians used the bible to justify institutionalized human trafficking in the form of kidnapping, rape, forced labor and sexual exploitation and breeding.

Historicity, I respectfully disagree with the information contained in the sources that you cited in Reply #40. I think that there are many reasons that we do not “find” many of the victims of human trafficking. As someone who has worked with immigrants, refugees, and displaced people for more than two decades, I can attest to the fact that many trafficking survivors (especially victims of sexual trafficking) feel guilt and responsibility for their own circumstances, and never self-identify as either victims or survivors. I’ve worked with a lot of women who were aging out of the sex industry, or who had successfully completed their periods of indentured servitude, who are never officially counted by anyone as being a “trafficked person.” Instead, they are often just motivated to move forward.

The following points illustrate how victims of trafficking may see themselves and their situations. It highlights the challenges that you may face as a law enforcement officer when interacting with potential victims.

• Victims are taught by their traffickers to distrust outsiders, especially law enforcement. They have a sense of fear and/or distrust toward the government and police because they are afraid they will be deported. Sometimes they feel that it is their fault that they are in this situation. As a coping or survival skill, they may develop loyalties and positive feelings toward their trafficker or may even try to protect them from authorities.

• Victims of human trafficking are hesitant to come forward because of their fear of being deported. While many of these victims are women and children who have been beaten and/or raped, their current situation may still be better than where they came from.

• Victims come from different social and ethnic backgrounds than the investigating officers. There may be significant cultural differences between the victim and U.S. law enforcement officials.

• Victims may be completely unaware of their rights or may have been intentionally misinformed about their rights in this country.

• Many victims do not self-identify as victims. They also do not see themselves as people who are homeless or as drug addicts who rely on shelters or assistance. Victims may not appear to need social services because they have a place to live, food to eat, medical care and what they think is a paying job.

• The victims may fear not only for their own safety but also for that of their families in their home countries. Some traffickers threaten that they will harm their victims' families if the victims report their situations to, or cooperate with, law enforcement.

• Criminal prosecution should empower the victims and should facilitate their healing process so that they see the crimes committed against them condemned and the people who harmed them punished.

Historicity there's a great point there. Laying here in the ER I just had a short conversation with my daughter and bu the way, mother of two... we both know young men who have gone off to war. The kid next door she grew up with is now a grizzled combat veteran at 25 and has seen many men die and has himself killed so our degree of separation is almost nil.On the same hand we're all parents and we don't know ANY KIDS sold into the sex slave business. I've known hundreds, perhaps thousands of parents and compound them by all their kids and still pull up goose eggs and I lived a pretty dammed hardcore existence as an alcoholoc AND heroin addict... I would think of all this would have exposed me to AT LEAST ONE trafficked sex slave.. and I was far from sheltered..

I've run into maybe a half dozen girls that have participated in prostitution, over the course of about 15 years of teaching.I'm not sure how many were being pimped out, and how many were just using it as a means to get what they want though.

I do know there are quite a few girls out there who are trapped in a cycle of abuse, poverty and drug addiction. I realize that isn't the same thing as a trafficked sex slave, though at least in my mind many of them are borderline to that description.

Logged

Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

One thing that blows me away is Olivianus's assumption that people become willing to engage in buying/selling sex slaves because of pornography. I wonder what sources he used to come up with that idea, because strangely, he didn't post any (excepting possibly that sex and money documentary, which I doubt was a source for his conclusions that "atheists" are responsible. I doubt he realizes the irony - that without the First Amendment, his right to post such things would be severely curtailed, if existent at all. Yet he considers the law evil, because to him, censorship is beneficial when it's focused on the things he wants it to be focused on. I doubt he would agree if it were directed at his right to make these nonsensical arguments, though, and that makes him a foul hypocrite, because he's perfectly happy to curtail the freedom of speech of others in things he dislikes, but he would almost certainly hate having his own freedom of speech curtailed in things he likes.

Logged

Nullus In Verba, aka "Take nobody's word for it!" If you can't show it, then you don't know it.

Olivianus, you propose two variables, porno and slavery, have a causal relationship. If you don't mind me asking, what is the effect size? Please link me to the appropriate data set so I can confirm the number. Thanks.

"In the end theologians are jealous of science, for they are aware that it has greater authority than do their own ways of finding “truth”: dogma, authority, and revelation. Science does find truth, faith does not. " - Jerry Coyne

According to the OP, "during the atheistic sexual revolution of the 60s..."

I'm going on record right now saying that I'm pissed to have missed this! Granted, I was born too late to participate, but I didn't know it was an atheistic sexual revolution, I misunderstood it to be just an ordinary sexual revolution. Will somebody please hurry up and make a time machine? This sounds like a helluva party, and all for us!

Logged

"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

I am noticing a lot of straw man here so let me make sure my argument is being understood. I am saying that pornography produces the demand for sex slaves. It makes people sexual deviants who demand the product. The atheist sexual revolution here in america through its grandfather the 1st amendment have spread sexual addiction all over this country creating the market and demand.

Bullshit.

Did the god fearing Moses and his band of Hebrew warring nomads have pornography ? Well ?

No they did not. And the demand for sex slaves was rampant in his group....just ask the Midianites.

So there you have it---a group of sexual deviants, at the command of a god by the way, with a high demand for virgin sex slave product and all done without pornography.

Since the Enlightement-atheistic principles of freedom of conscience, censorship has been attacked. When these principles really came into their own demographically, in the United States, during the atheistic sexual revolution of the 60s, pornography has become an epidemic. In their foolish trust in experience and the empty teleological theories of ethics that accompany secular empirical thinkers that cannot see what an action will result with in the future, human trafficking has blossomed out of this atheist movement. Because of evil laws like the First Amendment, pornography has spread into a world wide disease. Pornography makes people sexually addicted deviants who are willing to purchase forced sex slaves from black markets and pimps. A Christian group has produced a documentary called Sex and Money: http://sexandmoneyfilm.com/.

Take a big whiff of your self atheist. This is what your beliefs have produced. May Thomas Jefferson rot in Hell! Reader, do you know what the primary defense and justification for the legalization of pornography? The First Amendment.

I haven't bought a sex slave in years.I'm thinking leasing is the way to go.

Olivianus, you propose two variables, porno and slavery, have a causal relationship. If you don't mind me asking, what is the effect size? Please link me to the appropriate data set so I can confirm the number. Thanks.

Since the Enlightement-atheistic principles of freedom of conscience, censorship has been attacked. When these principles really came into their own demographically, in the United States, during the atheistic sexual revolution of the 60s, pornography has become an epidemic. In their foolish trust in experience and the empty teleological theories of ethics that accompany secular empirical thinkers that cannot see what an action will result with in the future, human trafficking has blossomed out of this atheist movement. Because of evil laws like the First Amendment, pornography has spread into a world wide disease. Pornography makes people sexually addicted deviants who are willing to purchase forced sex slaves from black markets and pimps. A Christian group has produced a documentary called Sex and Money: http://sexandmoneyfilm.com/.

Take a big whiff of your self atheist. This is what your beliefs have produced. May Thomas Jefferson rot in Hell! Reader, do you know what the primary defense and justification for the legalization of pornography? The First Amendment.

Sounds to me like somebody needs to get laid.

Logged

Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

It's possible that pornography is veiwed by the same people who also engage in sexual slavery. Without data to determine how much pornography is viewed by that group as opposed to other groups it's not empirical to state that pornography leads to sexual slavery.

I think it's likely, though I have no direct evidence to support such a claim, that consumers of pornography are part of a continuum. At one end would be people who have viewed but do not currently and would never even consider sexual slavery, and at the other end would be those 'addicted' to some of the most extreme sexual fetishes who also engage in that most barbaric of human activities, sexual slavery, with varying degrees in between.

It is true that the first amendment allows the distribution of pornography, and that Jefferson was instrumental in framing that amendment. I'm willing to live with the 'evil' of pornography in order to enjoy the 'good' of free speech. Consider also that the same land which gave rise to that evil and good (though pornography has been around at least as long as mankind has been able to make art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_erotic_depictions and is not unique to the west) also abolished slavery and still works today to end sexual slavery.

The OP may be correct in his initial assertion, but without further evidence to support it (facts, numbers, DATA) it's simply not acceptable to curtail all of free speech to stop pornography.

Amazing someone who enjoys the free expression of telling us because I like watching people fuck...well, sort of. I'd rather do the actual fucking personally that it's my fault slavery is in the world? Well I think it's mostly people who are sexually suppressed and 'hate freedom' are the slave traders.. Damned..where's W when you need the bastard.. To quote the warden in Cool Hand Luke.. What we have here is failure to commicate.. FREEDOM HATER! FREEDOM HATER!

« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 01:33:41 AM by atheola »

Logged

You better believe it's not butter or you'll burn in hell forever and EVER! Get on your knees right now and thank GOD for not being real!

So, wait, the sexual revolution of the 1960's was and Atheistic revolution but so was Thomas Jefferson and the first amendment, but the pornography which leads to human sex trafficking (?????????) Only took place because of the 60's sex revolution, but something about Thomas Jefferson and the 1'st amendment had something to do with it, so we actually didn't "need" the sexual revolution in the first place?

People who look at pornography inevitably buy sex slaves? We can completely ignore the fact that prostitution was legal until the 1900's, or the fact that human trafficking in the form of African Slaves was, not only booming, but considered a moral and economic necessity long before the 60's?

Just.... Shut up.

Shut up.

Logged

"A moral philosophy that is fact based should be based upon the facts about human nature and nothing else." - Mortimer J. Adler

I think you meant: "If I haven't seen it, and thus it's new to me, I should check the date and, if there have been no posts for some time, I should start a new thread (perhaps referencing the older one) because most of those who contributed may no longer be regular contributors."

Logged

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”