North America- almost all game : Africa : Spain : New Zealand : US : Mexico

Physical Condition:

Average to good for 56 years

IMPORTANT
NOTES (actions taken if hunter unhappy with hunt)

Notified Outfitter?

Notified Personal Guide?

Notified Booking Agent?

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide?

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

Midnight Sun has put a lot of time and effort into their area. They have several very nice bush cabins spread around their area and an exceptionally nice main lodge at Hart Lake. Considering that all supplies have to be flown in, the facilities are exceptional.Their personnel for the most part are very experienced and know the country well, as well as the game they are after. They have a very good to excellent string of horses. This truly is a very beautiful part of the world and I would recommend this hunt to anyone. This is, however, the Yukon and you do need to be able to hunt!

Subscriber-Written Trip Report On Midnight Sun Outfitting Hunts

Below is one sample of such a Report which is made available to you FREE of Charge.

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide? No

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

RE was offered to hunt a moose at no charge if he was to go back on a sheep hunt.

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

Our Midnight Sun Nightmare

My husband, R.E., and I had dreamed about a moose hunt in the Yukon since we got married over three years ago. Our dream turned into a nightmare. This is our story.

It's a long trip to the Yukon from Texas: Austin to Vancouver, Vancouver to Whitehorse and Whitehorse to Dawson City. Then a 126 mile flight northeast of Dawson to base camp. The night before we left to head out to camp we expected to be greeted by Alan Young or a representative from Midnight Sun Outfitters. The front desk said he'd be there between 5 and 6 pm that evening. No Alan. We checked back at 8 pm. Oh, Kevin is here. I tracked him down. He said he'd meet in the bar in 30 minutes with the details, because he couldn't go into the bar right then due to his girlfriend being underage. No Kevin.

September 1st. The next morning we brought our bags downstairs. What else do we do? With relief, Kevin did show up to take us to the airport. We load the plane. After five days of traveling and waiting, we finally get to base camp.

Time to settle up with Mary, Alan's wife, and turn in our liability waivers. "Oh", says Mary, "we don't take personal checks" R.E. apologized profusely. He offered to call our banker or even wire money to their account. "I'll have to talk to Alan," she says.

R.E. meets Alan on his way back to the cabin. "R.E. I don't take personal checks," says Alan. RE replies again with apologies and offers to wire money. "I don't f----- work for free" Alan yells. "I told you a hundred times I don't take personal checks. I don't know what I'm going to do." Alan storms off.

R.E. returns to me in the cabin and recalls the event. He says "I called Mary specifically about this. I asked if I needed to bring a cashiers' check or travelers checks. She said a check is fine for the balance and to bring an additional check for any other animals that we could potentially take."

After dinner we pulled Alan and Mary aside. R.E. said "We have come so far and we just want to have a good hunt. We don't want this hanging over our heads. We can wire money. However you want to handle this"

Mary replies "I guess we'll just take the risk. Our work is so seasonal. We can't afford to get scammed. R.E., you can just go build something when you get home and make up money. And Karen, you can go fill teeth. We have to make our money now. We can't afford to be stolen from. We're trying to run a business. I guess we'll just have to take the risk on you.

"I own a business too Mary and I don't curse my patrons" I interject.

We went back to the cabin feeling horrible. There was nothing we could say to change their minds. They thought we were trying to steal a free hunt from them. I've never felt like such a criminal before in my life. We were trapped.

September 2nd, everything seems ok at breakfast so we head out on horses with Ryan (age 27), Jesse (Alan's 18 year old daughter), and Kelleen (Jesse's 18 year old friend from school). We reach Twin Lakes late afternoon and camp for two nights.

September 3rd. The horses have run off. Jesse and Kelleen spend all day trying to find them. Ryan, R.E. and I go for an afternoon hunt. We see nothing.

September 4th. Ryan, R.E. and I hike up to the top of a nearby mountain to glass a valley while the girls sleep in. We see one small bull. We leave that afternoon for Nash Creek. Jesse and Ryan are unfamiliar with the area. Jesse has a hand drawn map from her 15 year old brother on how to get there. Arrive at Nash Creek and stay in cabins for two nights.

September 5th. Wake up to no horses. Ryan goes after them while the girls sleep. R.E. and I climb a nearby mountain, on our own, to glass the valley. No moose. Afternoon hunt, the girls and Ryan listen to an iPod and talk about movies while R.E. and I glass Big Moose Draw. No moose.

September 6th. Glass Beaver Dam Lake. R.E. goes with Ryan and I hunt with Jesse, who slept while I kept glassing. No moose. Head to base camp that afternoon.

Arrive at base camp after six hour ride. Alan has a plan. He says he's been flying over an area with moose. He'll fly us out in the morning.

September 7th. Alan flies Jesse then me to Elliott Lake in his Super Cab float plane. He showed me the moose from the plane, so we'd know where to go. He says he'll be back that evening, and hunt with us tomorrow. He goes to drop the boys off. (I'll go to R.E.'s story after mine).

Jesse and I head out. She doesn't want to carry her gun because it's too heavy.

We hike, glass, hike, glass, hike. We get to a good vantage point a sit down. Jesse falls asleep (I have a picture of this). I wake her up because I see a huge bull. "This is the one I want, what do we do."

Jesse panics "I don't know what to do!"

I come up with a plan of attack. We get down there and the moose is in the woods. I tell Jesse "do a cow call and see if he shows himself"

Jesse replies "I don't know how to do that" I beg her to at least try. "No, I don't know how and I'm not going to try."

We lose hope and head home around 8:30. It takes every bit of an hour and 45 minutes to get home. A terrifying hike in the dark let me assure you. We were both shaken. Alan was supposed to have flown in. No Alan.

September 8th. Jesse refuses to hunt because she wants to wait for Alan. After a few hours, I get her to go out. No. She wants to wait. I discuss with her the previous night. She agrees that she was afraid as well, and that she wished her Dad had been with us. We continue to wait. No Alan.

September 9th. I finally convince her that I need to get out there as time is running out. We see nothing due to heavy fog, and head back to the cabin around 2pm. Alan is there. He says he won't be staying. I tell Alan about our hike in the dark the day before yesterday. I told him that we were both scared, and that I would prefer to have a man with us hunting if we're to be out late. He turns to Jesse and says "you weren't scared, were you?"

"Of course not Daddy" she lies.

"Oh Karen," Alan ridicules "you have nothing to be scared of our there. It's not like men with guns are going to attack you. This isn't downtown Laredo at night."

Alan then suggested that we go back out after the bull. Jesse tells him "I'm not walking that far again."

"Then just go to the end of the lake and call" Alan suggests.

"No Daddy. I don't know how to call. I don't do that."

We hike above the lake. Again, I see a moose I'd like to shoot. Again, Jesse doesn't know what to do, and won't even attempt a call even after much begging on my part.

September 10th. We head out for a days hunt. We see one moose. Once again, I beg Jesse to call. She refuses.

I go back to R.E.'s hunt from the 7th on:

Alan flew out Ryan, then R.E. to a remote area. He shows Ryan where the moose had been bedding down. Unfortunately, Ryan has never hunted the area and does not have a clue about the terrain. He leaves them with two days of food and tells them to hike home if they get the moose. If not, he'd be back to check on them. They hunt for the rest of the day. No moose.

September 8th. They hunt. No moose. It begins to rain and their tent is leaking water profusely.

September 9th. R.E. and Ryan are out of food. Alan has not come back to check on them or bring supplies. They are forced to walk to base camp, a seven and a half hour hike. R.E. said it was the most grueling physical hike he'd ever taken, not to mention the fact that R.E. was carrying about a fifty pound load, because of having to pack out camp, on a slingshot pack that was designed for a bow and a days worth of supplies. Remember, they were flown into this camp. This was not to be a backpack hunt. It was suppose to be a horseback hunt.

All the while, R.E. assumes that Alan is hunting with me.

September 10th. Day hunt at "The Island. " No moose.

September 11th. Alan picks me up and flies me back to base camp. I go out for a days hunt with R.E., Ryan, and Kelleen. Once again, R.E. and I glass while Ryan flirts with Kelleen.

September 12th. We head home. Thank God we survived!

I kept emotion out of the story above. My husband and I are lucky to have made it out of there safely. What man in his right mind would drop of an inexperienced female hunter off in the woods with an 18 year old girl, or drop off my husband with two days of food and tell him to walk home. Does this man even have a license to carry passengers in his plane? What about the other young hunter out there with a 15 year old kid guiding him?

We will be sending this report to the Yukon Renewable Resources. We will also be turning Alan Young into Transport Canada for flying us in his float plane without a license to fly passengers (according to Alan himself "if anyone asks, you got to this location by horse. I don't have a license to carry passengers")

I will be happy to provide pictures of me in the plane if proof is needed.

_______________________________________________________________

Rebuttal comment:

Hunting Report:

This is not one of my favourite things to do, however, I guess, you deal with hunters such as this, if you are going to remain in the industry and it sometimes goes with the Outfitting business.

Regarding the complaint from R.E. and Karen Hopkins: To answer her letter:

From her arrival in Dawson City, we knew she would be a difficult client. I will try and address her specific concerns. She boasted about being a hunter who the local newspaper wanted to do an article on as she was "Texas business woman goes on hunt in the Yukon". She tried to portray the image of an experienced bush person.

Our clients get a very detailed, written documentation of all information they require in order to feel comfortable with all the arrangements in May before the hunting season. It includes meeting arrangements, licence and seals, balance owing, what to bring etc.

Mary usually does our expediting but she was just returning from her mother's funeral.

Our expeditor and one of our guides, Kevin, left her messages in Whitehorse, that he would meet her at the Midnight Sun Hotel, when she arrived, which he did.

On the evening Karen & her husband were in the Midnight Sun Hotel, in the bar, Kevin was in the restaurant with another one of our other hunters (75 feet away from her) discussing plans for the next day. Karen was well aware where he was and could easily have come and talked to him if she wished to talk to him a 2nd time.

Jessie's young friend, Keleen, was also with Kevin (not Kevin's girlfriend) as Karen accused. It would take a warped mind to even think such a thing. In the morning, Kevin, showed up, just as he had said he would, and loaded their bags and flew with the charter Co. which they paid for, to camp. They arrived at base camp on Sept. 1st which is the day that their hunt actually commenced and when they were supposed to.

The confrontation about the funds owing for the balance of their hunt, came after they gave a personal cheque for the hunting trip. They had been told this or sent correspondence about this fact at least 5 times where it clearly states we do not accept personal cheques under any circumstance and accept bank drafts or certified cheques only.

They had been told: 1) Alan told them over the phone when talked to R.E. Hopkins at least once. 2) An email dated July 15/07 stated such (which I have attached) 3) A final balance sheet which we send to our clients in May which gives them all the information that they require has a full page of the breakdown of their final balance which is to be paid on their arrival. (I also have copy of that - which I will be happy to send you).

I apologized, at the time, for the slight profanity, however, when Karen told me that R.E. does "not pay attention to details", and that was why they did not bring a certified cheque, I felt my language was warranted. I did not trust either one of them and had never met them before. I felt a good old Texas scam coming on.

On Sept. 1st, they also diverted my original plans for their trip. They said they were not going to hunt with an Indian and one of my best moose guides is Native. This was initially where I was going to have them go. He has guided for us for 8 years and I have never had a complaint from a hunter about him. Then R.E. said she was also not going to hunt with white guys either if it meant her staying out alone with them. There must be a lot of trust there!!

That left Ryan (who has moose guided for several years), Jessie, who has her first guides license, with Keleen wrangling. I sent them off to an area where they would have a good opportunity at a moose. Patience is not a virtue of Karen Hopkins. The first day, I asked Karen if she wanted to come with me and hunt a good moose that I knew where one was. Her first question was - how big is it?? - When I responded that it was 55-60" - she said no and said she wanted a really big one and wanted to go with R.E. On Day 7, they still had had no luck so I offered to fly them to separate camps for a few days to try Plan B. This was done to assist them to have a successful hunt. They did not pay for this service, as their flying fees goes to the Charter Co. out of Dawson City.

I have had a pilot's license since 1977 and to date possess our own Aviation Co.; I have a commercial license, and also have a chief pilot's status. I have had multiple meetings with Transport Canada.

Her comments about Jessie have quite taken me back. Jessie has a legal guide's license. Jessie was in the mountains at 2 weeks old. She has lived in our hunting areas and on our ranch her whole life. She has walked trails alone at night and has checked cattle and horses at 3 a.m. with a flashlight since she was 7 years old. She also guided for the 4th largest Dall Sheep in the Yukon Territory last year and her hunter was from the Outdoor Life Network. He photographed his trip and is now coming back to feature Jessica Young on a T.V. show on woman guiding in the Yukon. He thought she was unbelievably experienced for an 18 year old girl and thought she was an excellent guide. Jessie is one of Canada's top ski racers right now on the National Circuit and does heavy dryland daily and can bench press 180 lbs. I don't think her rifle was too heavy at 9 ½ lbs and walking and climbing for her a few hours is nothing. The days she did not go out hunting, it was fogged to the ground. This is also why I did not fly in. She did not cow call moose because she did not feel it was good timing and the rut was not even close to happening. Concession #4 has an excellent population of moose and at any camp there is an opportunity at one. When Karen told me Jessie was scared of the dark and lazy, I then knew she was not telling the truth. Jessie used a headlamp and has one for times of getting back late at night or wrangling early in the a.m. I did not return to pick them up as soon as I could have - as I asked R. E. at the dinner table, if I should go and pick her up as she was completely out of her element -- and he said to "leave her there" as things are nice around here now. That suited me fine.

He reminded me that she was not hunting with an Indian at all or a white guy overnight. R.E. hunted with Ryan and seemed to be liked by everyone. I also dropped Ryan and him off at another camp to try Plan B. as well. They were also in a very good Moose spot and it did entail hiking 6-7 hours which he agreed to do, back to camp. They had light packs and it was a well travelled horse trail. R.E. went to the spike camp on the 7th and they hiked back on the 9th. Ryan had an 80-90 lb. large pack with adequate groceries for 2 days. I would question how R.E could have 50 lbs of weight in a day pack. Ryan told me he cached groceries there as there was too much to pack back. They had no success. I have hiked this trail numerous times and I did not think he was physically incapable. They had some heavy rainfall which did not make it pleasant.

She was never left alone except one time while the crew was making supper; her and R.E. supposedly wanted private time and hiked up on the side hill by camp. This was told to me by all 3 of my crew at separate times.

She has also confabulated about our son, Logan, but he does not guide, because he is not of age yet. He has been going on hunts since he was 6 with myself, my guides and wranglers and helps out. He won the Youth award for FNAWS when he was 8 years old and received a $600.00 Sheep belt buckle in front of 1800 people. He was awarded this as being the most promising youth in the hunting community in North America. Today he is 6'1" and 16 years old and he is a great asset to any hunting trip. She has tried to cause trouble for Logan as well by trying to contact all the other hunters that we had in camp at that time looking for support of her story. They have told her to leave them alone as they do not believe what she is saying, and they had a good trip of their own.

In conclusion, Karen has neglected to mention, that at the end of the trip, I verbally offered R.E. to return, before he left base camp. Before this falsified letter from Karen, we also emailed them on Dec. 21st and offered a trip in our 2008 or 2009 season, to compensate for their unsuccessful trip, of which we heard no response. The first we heard of their complaint was the email on Feb. 23rd. from Terry Wilkinson (YOA Ethics Committee) but the letter from Karen is dated Sept. 17th.

This offer no longer stands as we have no one that will guide her. None of our guides or our wranglers cared for her. These points are from our side and are only the tip of the iceberg. Jessie's opinion about her inadequacy as a hunter, and person, are very lengthy and would require another long letter.

We feel we have done everything we can, to try and resolve this situation with this very difficult client. There has been no contravention to the Wildlife Act or has there been any issues in regard to safety. In 26 years of outfitting, and 3 different areas, we have never had as much as one charge, let alone a conviction.

I am sure there will not be very many people that read the rebuttal as you have it as such that they have to pay to read the rebuttal but the outfitter criticism they can read at N/C. Pretty one sided and undemocratic!

Sorry, that you have had to deal with such poor sportsperson's that are clients of yours, as this, but thank you for letting us express our opinion.

Alan & Mary Ellen Young

Subscriber-Written Trip Report On Midnight Sun Outfitting Hunts

Below is one sample of such a Report which is made available to you FREE of Charge.

We saw numerous sheep. They are not behind every rock, but when we found them, there was a good chance at a mature ram. Two over 40 inch rams taken in the first couple hunts.

SERVICE
RATINGS (excellent, good, fair or poor)

Quality
of Outfit:

Excellent

Guide/PH
Ability:

Excellent

Condition
of Camp:

Excellent

Condition
of Equipment:

Good

Quality
of Food:

Excellent

Trophy
Care:

Excellent

Name
of Airline:

Air Canada

Airline
Service:

Excellent

Airline
Comments:

Very good service, although they do charge quite a bit for excess and oversize baggage.

COSTS

Hunting
Fees:

Amount:

$17000

Trophy Fees:

Amount:

$250

Permits/Licenses:

Amount:

$250

Commercial
Airfares:

Amount:

$1200

Charter Airfares:

Amount:

$2000

Other Costs:

Amount:

$1400

Total:

$0

SUMMARY
REMARKS

Problems
of Hunt:

Lost a couple days due to bad weather and my guide got sick so the outffitter had to step in as my guide.

Highlights
of Hunt:

The whole outfit really pulled together to make the hunt as good as it could be. Super outfit and super people.

Equipment
Recommendations:

Definitely want to have good quality gear, especially boots and be in good condition as the mountains can humble you.

Would You
Recommend This Hunt to a Friend?

yes

Why?

If you are in good condition and hunt hard, you will likely get a chance at a beautiful mature ram and see some of the most unspoiled country in North America. This outfit had gone 7 for 8 on nice sheep when I was there with 2 40-plus inchers taken.

This sheep was my seventh ram, so I have been at this game a while now. Can't wait for the next one. I guess you could say that I have sheep fever.

Physical Condition:

I was 43 when I went on this hunt. I am in pretty good condition, but have some problems with my sore knees.

IMPORTANT
NOTES (actions taken if hunter unhappy with hunt)

Notified Outfitter?

Notified Personal Guide?

Notified Booking Agent?

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide?

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

All in all, this hunt was wonderful experience. I would rebook with Midnight Sun Outfitting Ltd tommorrow. They offer excellent mixed bag opportunities, with giant moose hunting in September. The country is pristine and absolutely beautiful. A small family run outfit with great people that will really work for you to make your hunting experience as good as possible.

Subscriber-Written Trip Report On Midnight Sun Outfitting Hunts

Below is one sample of such a Report which is made available to you FREE of Charge.

Sheep, Dall - Availability: There isn't a huntable population of sheep in the area.

Game
Condition Comments:

This report is not intended to bad mouth this outfitter. But just give my side of it. and let other hunters know that I think before they spend the money. I feel I bought a sheep hunt and was given a trail ride. I feel I was mislead about his operation. I was told his average was about 70% success only to find out its about 30%. They take 12 sheep hunters a year. This means that eight or nine guys are going to go home without a ram. Now I know there no guarantees in hunting, but when we're paying this kind of money you should at the very least get a chance or even two at the animal you're hunting. I feel they know they don't have the sheep there but are selling the hunts. Doesn't seem right. At the time I left, seven sheep hunters had been there and two rams had been taken-one hog the first day and one the last evening. Both rams were the only ones seen by these hunters. Out of the rest of the sheep hunters either none were seen or no legal rams were seen. One hunter saw one legal ram and got to within 500 yards and his guide wouldn't let him shoot. They never saw a sheep the rest of the hunt. The outfitter wants to blame the weather, and yes we did get many days of rain and some fog, but we got a good look at everything. If there were sheep there we would have seen them. They took me to a place that's a two days ride to get to there. They never pre-scouted it but saw sheep there a year and a half ago long way at a half @#$ chance at best. I did buy a caribou tag and would have took one after I got a sheep, I told this to the outfitter and guide many times. As the hunt went on I was pushed into shooting a caribou before a sheep. I refused to do this and even passed on a good bull. This caused tension in the camp. I was there to hunt sheep!!! In the end I road a horse about 150 miles, looked into 28 basins or more and saw two good caribou. 10 cows and calves, one good bull moose, one medium and two cows, one sow and cub bear, no sheep!!! In all this country covered shouldn't have there been more? Not all of us that go on these hunts are rich Americans. I took out a loan for this hunt I am looking at 60 months of payments in front of me and nothing to show for it. I believe when we go on these hunts we should pay for what we use, the ride on the planes, the food we eat the horse we ride the guides that go with us, but I also feel we should have a chance! If we pass on one, if we don't get into shape and get to where they are. If we miss the shot, well that's on us and would be considered a chance. But to get rode around and never go on a stalk or even see a sheep let alone a ram. Well that's a trail ride. And this outfitter and his guide know that eight or more hunters are not going to get a chance. It's just not right. So if you want a trail ride and camping trip with some wonderful sites, this would be the place and you bring a gun along you might run into something. If you're coming to hunt sheep, they are far and few but you could find the needle in the haystack. Just hope you get close enough for your guide to let you shoot.

SERVICE
RATINGS (excellent, good, fair or poor)

Quality
of Outfit:

Poor

Guide/PH
Ability:

Good

Condition
of Camp:

Fair

Condition
of Equipment:

Good

Quality
of Food:

Fair

Trophy
Care:

Poor

Name
of Airline:

United - North Air - bush plane don't know (Ernie)

Airline
Service:

Good

Airline
Comments:

All flight worked out but give yourself time in between to get through security and customs took three hours at time.

COSTS

Hunting
Fees:

Sheep - US

Amount:

$11000

Trophy Fees:

Amount:

$0

Permits/Licenses:

Canada

Amount:

$670

Commercial
Airfares:

US

Amount:

$1100

Charter Airfares:

Five hour ride in truck to bush plane.

Amount:

$0

Other Costs:

Hotel two nights, food and Canadian tips. $14,000 US plus interest on the loan $19,000.

Amount:

$180

Total:

$0

SUMMARY
REMARKS

Problems
of Hunt:

Not a huntable population of sheep. Misleading in information. Some weather lots of he said she said after its over. Was told the success rate was 75% with 80% getting a chance when its only 30%. Also told there were about 120 sheep in our hunt area 20x30 mile range. You can figure 85% of them are ewe's and lambs the rest rams and out of those rams maybe four or five will be legal. You could be there months and not see one of those five.

Highlights
of Hunt:

Saw some wonderful country, saw a nice moose and bear in the wild. The wrangler was one of the nicest hard working young men I have ever met.

Equipment
Recommendations:

Real good rain gear. Go small not much room so they don't let you take allot. Be in shape. Ride some before you go. You will be in the saddle seven to 10 hours a day to get to places to look.

Would You
Recommend This Hunt to a Friend?

No

Why?

There not a huntable number of sheep here. Or the outfitter doesn

HUNTER
INFORMATION

Hunter
Name:

David M. Pinello

Contact
Information:

Tel. 719-492-5506 - 2367 E Woodman Rd E-mail: sweetpea30378@aol.com

Hunting Experience:

I've been going with my dad ever since I was five. I have taken every big game animal in my home state (Colorado)but two. (desert sheep and whitetail deer) I have been on many sheep hunts here in Colorado with family and friends with eleven rams taken. I have gone on two Dall hunts, two stone. I have wanted a grand slam since I was 12 and have gone four times now without a sheep or putting a shell in my gun. After this last trip my quest for the slam is over just can't justify the money it takes and nothing to show for it. not even a chance. I am members of FNAWS, the grand slam club, elk foundation, SCI, mule deer association, big horn sheep society etc.. so lets just say its not my first rodeo.

Physical Condition:

I just turned 35. After I booked this hunt I lost 28 pounds and worked out every night for three months but Sundays. Was I at the top level? No but I was ready and feel I could have got to them if they were found.

IMPORTANT
NOTES (actions taken if hunter unhappy with hunt)

Notified Outfitter? Yes

Notified Personal Guide? Yes

Notified Booking Agent? No

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide? No

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

No didn't seek settlement. I have gone on four hunts now for the grand slam with all different outfits and have learned that they aren't going to give you back any money at all. And there is no place that can help. I just want other hunters to hear my story before they spend their savings or do like I did and take out a loan.

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

I did make a deal with the outfitter before I went because I have went on so many of these hunts without a ram. If I didn't get a ram $4,000 would be returned and he did do that in the end. He also offered to have me back to hunt sheep if I booked another hunt say moose or bear. I don't want to go back, there's no sheep the last day we were there the game warden flew in and he even said the sheep are scarce in this area. It just seem to me if they know they can only take 30% a year, well then they should only sell three or four sheep hunts a year. Instead of 12 or more. They set the number of tags not the government. So they can sell as many as they want. They are selling nine or more sheep hunts that there aren't sheep for that's 99,000 this just does not seem right to me. How can you sell something you know you don't have. (if any of you think I am way off on this feel free to let me know) its just the way I see it. Maybe the Hunting Report can get a list of all his sheep hunters over the last few years and take a poll to see just how many guys never saw a legal ram or sheep at all? In closing I just want to say I am really not trying to be a cry baby but after this hunt I am $28,000 in the hole with no sheep to show for it. All I asked for was a good chance to take a ram (shooting chance) and at any good ram it didn't have to be the 40 plus incher just a good legal ram. I did everything asked of me. Paid the money got in shape, road to the places they wanted to go. I even explained all this to the outfitter, about my past and how I just couldn't come home without a ram this time and even though he knew I could be one of the nine guys not going to get one he still booked me. It's all about the money I guess or maybe he thought I would luck out and find the needle in the hay stack and be one of his 30% but he also could have said find some one else. But on the plus side I came out safe after all the horse rides and small planes and got home alive. To say I am disappointed and even depressed would be an understatement. This has ended my quest for the grand slam.

I have read the negative hunt report you filed in The Hunting Report about your 2003 trip with Midnight Sun Outfitters. I will take your word that there were few sheep in the area and success for all hunters with them was low. It is an unfortunate situation in hunting. I have faced it myself on many whitetail hunts.

If you look in one of your Hunting Reports, you will see I am an honor roll subscriber. I earned that distinction based on a report I filed for a dall sheep in 2001 with John Peterson in the Brook Range. See the November 2001 issue.

There is no rebuttal from your outfitter, so again I only have your word to go by. I want to comment back to you on a few aspects of your report.

A) You say that this is the fourth dall sheep hunt you have been on and never even put a bullet in the chamber. There is something drastically wrong here. Obviously there is a flaw in your hunt planning/selection process.

1) I not you did not use a booking agent. I strongly recommend the use of a reputable booking agent to narrow down the selection of possible outfitters/guides. They are a valuable source of information to better the chances of a successful hunt. Three I will recommend are: Jack Atcheson & Sons 406-782-2382 (Keith); Safari Outfitters 307-587-5596 (Clark Jeffs); Jim McCarthy Adventures 717-652-4374.

2) You made one mention of what past performance was. The outfitter said 70 percent. What about previous hunters. On my one sheep hunt I spoke with every hunter who was with the outfitter the previous year and a half from the year before. This gave me a true picture of not only the success rate but many other aspects of the hunt. Self research is mandatory to insure any degree of confidence in your hunt before it happens.

B) I will now tread in an area that may be none of my business. You make a big deal about being $28,000 in the hole for this or all four hunts. Young man, learn a lesson from an older man, "If you can't afford to do it, then don't". Every time you go on a major hunt outside of your everyday hunting range you must expect there is a chance that you will get skunked. Your luck has been worse than nearly everyone I have heard of on a dall sheep quest. But guess what, paying the bucks does not guarantee success. If you want your dollars spent to guarantee your quest for a grand slam, head to a Texas game farm. I am sure they will help you hang some heads on the wall for a hefty fee.

I have hunted a long time (38 years starting at age 10) and never went on big hunts until I was in my 40's. Why did I wait that long? Because that's how long it took before I could afford to go on a major hunt. Major hunts are a luxury. If you are going to suffer financially because of having borrowed money for a hunt, STOP HUNTING NOW. I have been a financial counselor for thousands of people over the past 20+ years. The first rule is : "Do what you can afford to do. Save for the rest." Unless you are in a field of work that offers some great earning potential in the future, borrowing money for a hunt then bitching about it leads me to believe you have a sad financial future ahead. Get some help.

C) Lastly, some outfitter recommendations, if you ever decide to try again.

1) John Peterson/Bristol Bay Outfitters; 907-278-0994. We hunted in the Brooks Range, 40 miles off the Arctic Ocean. John's hunters had 100 percent success for the two years prior to my hunt, 100 percent in 2001 and I have spoken to other successful hunter in 2002. It is a tough, Spartan hunt. But I saw shootable sheep every day. Due to a personal injury, my hunt was limited and I shot a smaller than expected ram on the third day. I did not blame my guide or outfitter because I fell down the mountain and hurt my knew, keeping me from going after some 40-inch trophies. John may also be contacted through Jack Atcheson and Sons.

2) Wendell Runyon/Grizzly Creek Adventures 540-297-0373. I have not hunted sheep with Wendell. We did hunt for moose and caribou together. I will tell you he is the best guide I have ever worked with. Knowledgeable, friendly and hard working. Wendell hunts sheep in the Talketna Mountains. May not be the best area but he has had success. Wendell may also be contacted through Jim McCarthy.

So Mr. Pinello, don't give up. You just need to change how you are doing things and get your financial priorities straight. No need to respond because I am sure my comments will not be received in the well intentioned manner they are sent. Best of luck to you in your future hunting life. You are young enough that there is time for things to get better.

Subscriber-Written Trip Report On Midnight Sun Outfitting Hunts

Below is one sample of such a Report which is made available to you FREE of Charge.

Bear, Grizzly - Availability: Saw a monster but he winded us before we could get close enough for a shot.

Game
Condition Comments:

Great area for big moose. Another hunter shot a bull that will probably make B&C. The third moose hunter during our hunt period was a bow hunter and shot a good bull. The fourth hunter was after only bear and shot a fair bear.

SERVICE
RATINGS (excellent, good, fair or poor)

Quality
of Outfit:

Excellent

Guide/PH
Ability:

Excellent

Condition
of Camp:

Excellent

Condition
of Equipment:

Good

Quality
of Food:

Good

Trophy
Care:

Excellent

Name
of Airline:

Airline
Service:

Airline
Comments:

COSTS

Hunting
Fees:

Amount:

$9000

Trophy Fees:

Amount:

$150

Permits/Licenses:

Amount:

$285

Commercial
Airfares:

Amount:

$0

Charter Airfares:

Amount:

$0

Other Costs:

Amount:

$0

Total:

$0

SUMMARY
REMARKS

Problems
of Hunt:

Couldn't get close enough to that grizzly.

Highlights
of Hunt:

Absolutely beautiful, remote area. The majestic scenery, nature at her finest, was the highlight for me. But, watching that big moose come in to a cow call wasn't bad, either.

This was my second trip to Canada, I hunt yearly for deer and elk in Utah.

Physical Condition:

Good to excellent.

IMPORTANT
NOTES (actions taken if hunter unhappy with hunt)

Notified Outfitter?

Notified Personal Guide?

Notified Booking Agent?

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide?

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

My hunting partner, Charles Edwards, is sending in a report (see report ID #3478) and he asked me to respond as well concerning our hunt this past year in the Yukon, Canada. Most of the information you requested is on your form you provided but I thought some further information was warranted.

Our trip was to be a 10-day trip for Dall or Fannin sheep and I asked for an additional tag for caribou on a trophy basis. Our trip was plagued with bad weather loosing one day up front being unable to fly out of Mayo to base camp. Once to base camp, I was flown to a second base camp and the next day left on a two-day horseback ride to our spike camp (three-days gone). We had bad weather the next two days, shot a caribou on day six at 8:00 am and we didn't hunt the rest of the day to care for cape and meat. Hunted sheep the next two days and did not see any sheep (eight-days gone) then two days ride back to catch the plane.

My concerns with this hunt was there was very little game. I did take a caribou that green score B&C at 366 but it was the largest of only three bulls we saw. I saw three ewes and a lamb but no rams. Talking with the guide I suspect the sheep were poorly scouted. The guide seemed very knowledgable and worked hard. The outfitter was a little disorganized but pleasant. He is new to this area and I have subsequently heard from other people from the Yukon that this area does not have a lot of game and takes years to learn. It has some good sheep, moose and caribou but they are scattered and good animals can be hard to find. Under the circumstances two days (maybe even ten days) was not nearly enough time to have a reasonable chance at finding a good sheep.

The outfitter did offer to have us back at a reduced rate but I declined because I felt it would be better to use my resources and time in more productive areas. I hope you find this information helpful.

The Hunting Report writes: As this issue went to press, we have received no response from Midnight Sun Outfitters.

Subscriber-Written Trip Report On Midnight Sun Outfitting Hunts

Below is one sample of such a Report which is made available to you FREE of Charge.

Main complaint is paucity of sheep but also outfitter poorly organized and food was not available to take to spike camp caused one day delay in starting out to spike camp. To travel to another spike camp after determining that there were not sheep to harvest in our area . Would have taken two days to get to the new area and then two days to get back to base camp so we didn't have enough time to get to another area. It would have required four more days out of possible 10 days to get to another area.

SERVICE
RATINGS (excellent, good, fair or poor)

Quality
of Outfit:

Fair

Guide/PH
Ability:

Good

Condition
of Camp:

Fair

Condition
of Equipment:

Good

Quality
of Food:

Fair

Trophy
Care:

Name
of Airline:

Airline
Service:

Good

Airline
Comments:

COSTS

Hunting
Fees:

Amount:

$14000

Trophy Fees:

Amount:

$0

Permits/Licenses:

Amount:

$0

Commercial
Airfares:

Amount:

$1000

Charter Airfares:

Included.

Amount:

$0

Other Costs:

Amount:

$0

Total:

$0

SUMMARY
REMARKS

Problems
of Hunt:

Weather - but also scarcity of animals and organization of logistics of camp. When I stated my dissatisfaction he stated that I was a negative attitude type hunter.

Highlights
of Hunt:

Not much to report, I did not even see any sheep while we were flying in and out.

Equipment
Recommendations:

Would You
Recommend This Hunt to a Friend?

No

Why?

Scarcity of animals and poor organization.

HUNTER
INFORMATION

Hunter
Name:

Charles B Edwards

Contact
Information:

Tel. 801-268-3800 - 1160 E 3900 S #4100, Salt Lake City, UT 84124

Hunting Experience:

I have harvested eight sheep, member of Grand Slam sheep club #489. Have hunted many . Harvested a 10 1/2 ft bear with Dick Gunlogson. Hunted twice with Fred Webb in Arctic conditions. Two muskox, one arctic island caribou, caribou in Quebec, bear in Alberta and Alaska, sheep in Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Alberta, British Columbia and Yukon Territory and Northwest Territory (back pack hunt).

Physical Condition:

IMPORTANT
NOTES (actions taken if hunter unhappy with hunt)

Notified Outfitter? Yes

Notified Personal Guide? No

Notified Booking Agent?

Seeking any
kind of restitution or other settlement from agent, outfitter
or guide?

If Seeking Restitution, What is Sought?

No redress, just disappointment with attitude and performance of the outfitter. His wife was a jewel and very organized. Things just were not good in the field. I think that the quantity of sheep in his area not anywhere near what I have seen in other Dall areas.

ADDITIONAL
HUNTER COMMENTS AND/OR OUTFITTER/BOOKING AGENT REBUTTAL

Note to make things a litter more clear.

We flew into Whitehorse on a Sunday and stayed overnight there.

On Monday, Mary drove us to Mayo where we were to meet the plane to fly us out to our base camp in a super cab.

The problem there was that the food we needed for our spike camp was not there and Allen got it into us on Wednesday evening, so we spent all day Wednesday doing nothing in our camp waiting for the food we needed at the spike camp to be provided.

So it was Thursday before we could pack up and ride out to the spike camp - a full day's ride.

The weather was bad - The mountain now covered with clouds and we hunted when there was a break, but only saw four rams.

The idea was that we would go to another area if we didn't find sheep and at that time we only had seven days left in the hunt. It would have taken us one day to get back to camp, then two more days to get to the new area and then two more days to go from the new area back to the base camp to fly out on Saturday.

We hunted as much as we could without seeing sheep except for three small rams and one larger questionable as to whether it was a Fannin or Dall. The three small ones were Dall.

Of the four hunters in our "group", one shot a ram and saw two others, one did not see any sheep. Steve, my partner saw three ewes and one lamb. I saw the above sheep for a total of eight to 11 sheep spotted by four hunting during the whole hunt.

We have heard rumors that the previous outfitter in this area had hunted it out. I do not know. I just do not think that he has many sheep in his area.

I think that he also is poorly organized, it was advertised as a 12-day hunt but there was no way we could get in 12 days of hunting.

The Hunting Report writes: As this issue went to press, we have not received a response from Midnight Sun Outfitters.