[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
I've realized this myself but never thought too, too much about it. Overly balanced? I can see your point here as things become pretty predictable. I agree. But, maybe only for your average player I think. When you really start to play well and play against players with a higher skill.. the play become a little less predictable. Exactly why skill and rankings need to make their way back into Halo and not this silly experience point system they got going. [i](ehh.. getting a little more off topic here, I know.)[/i][/quote]
Off topic - not really ... its all about that "innovation" you mentioned before.
343 currently have the option to do some serious changes, before they (like bungie before them) get locked into the need-to-change-without-changing prison.
Hell, if they dont feel that brave - open up different play groups, each with different ranking models and appeal to both sides. The stats come back from each game regardless, it is only a change to how the stats system processes the results.
Tune the maps slightly within each group set ... save on financial costs as they would re-use the same map investment, just let them play out differently and appeal to different "[i]rank appreciation[/i]" groups of players. At the moment Halo is locked down and restricted by this concept of over balance.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
Funny, with the reduced online numbers you get to know the basic openning moves of players. H4 moves that a bit as there is a couple of extra vehicles ... but it is still very easy to predict player moves. The overbalanced state of the game limits the play options which kills the fun a little.[/quote]
I've realized this myself but never thought too, too much about it. Overly balanced? I can see your point here as things become pretty predictable. I agree. But, maybe only for your average player I think. When you really start to play well and play against players with a higher skill.. the play become a little less predictable. Exactly why skill and rankings need to make their way back into Halo and not this silly experience point system they got going. [i](ehh.. getting a little more off topic here, I know.)[/i]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
Or those who just have a preference or better things to spend their money on than a pile of videogames.[/quote]Fair call
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain NimdaYou got it. Looking so closely, seems you've recognized the pattern. I never cared for the Call of Duty games Treyarch was involved in, only Infinity Ward. So no Black Ops for me - just personal preference.[/quote]wow ... two-for-two.
Only mentioned BLOPs as it was your [i]measuring stick[/i] in a prior point. And the mixture of studios was a great move by Activision (they had to get one eventually) ... as is does mix up the series. Halo suffered as bungie was caught between experimenting and ruining the game - couldnt improve without change and no one liked change ... with COD and 2 studios people expect every alternate release to be different.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
CoD is very noob friendly and can be a lot of fun, but Halo is just a lot more competitive and harder to be good at.[/quote]Almost three-for-three ... total agreement.
I find it the reverse ... Halo is overly balanced. Maps are mirror images, everyone starts out with the same basic weapons (balanced), even weapon pickups are balanced.
Its your basic point-and-shoot game.
Funny, with the reduced online numbers you get to know the basic openning moves of players. H4 moves that a bit as there is a couple of extra vehicles ... but it is still very easy to predict player moves. The overbalanced state of the game limits the play options which kills the fun a little.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
Maybe for those still on pocket money.[/quote]
Or those who just have a preference or better things to spend their money on than a pile of videogames.
[quote]Like who buys just the one game to play - boring.[/quote]
Well.. me, pretty much. I've played other games, sure. But I stick to what I like.
[quote]played MW2 & MW3, but no BLOPS?[/quote]
You got it. Looking so closely, seems you've recognized the pattern. I never cared for the Call of Duty games Treyarch was involved in, only Infinity Ward. So no Black Ops for me - just personal preference.
[quote]Guess playing Halo and watching videos is what xbl is about for you[/quote]
I'm the minority, definitely. Call of Duty doesn't require the same finesse that Halo does, I think. CoD is very noob friendly and can be a lot of fun, but Halo is just a lot more competitive and harder to be good at.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
People avoided it ... why - the memory of reach.[/quote]
Eh.. I don't think so. With Black Ops II coming out shortly after Halo 4's release, I'm sure most people just waited for that instead.[/quote]
Maybe for those still on pocket money.
Most would have got both, and AC3, and a few other titles. Like who buys [i]just the one game to play[/i] - boring.
Well .. maybe except for yourself "[i]Online playing Halo 4 - In Matchmade Game Exile[/i]", and no sign of Black Ops in your game history (played MW2 & MW3, but no BLOPS?). Guess playing Halo and watching videos is what xbl is about for you ... most gamers always have a few on the go at once.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh GodLike One
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
Doesn't mean Halo 4 is awful.[/quote]
But does mean that Halo 4 had disappointing sales numbers.
People avoided it ... why - the memory of reach.[/quote]
No actually, I avoided it because I hate custom loadouts, instant spawns, and pointstreaks. It has nothing to do with Reach.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
People avoided it ... why - the memory of reach.[/quote]
Eh.. I don't think so. With Black Ops II coming out shortly after Halo 4's release, I'm sure most people just waited for that instead.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
Doesn't mean Halo 4 is awful.[/quote]
But does mean that Halo 4 had disappointing sales numbers.
People avoided it ... why - the memory of reach.
And yet, even though getting way less initial sales H4 is still pulling more players than reach ... both "[i]at this point in time[/i]" and if you compare the same points in time from initial release.
No getting past it - bungie messed up.
Halo was the name to beat, but that died with Halo 3.
Even bungies aerospace project failed ... why would cash hungry indie devs not go with a known name, unless that known name had a definite stink about it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b]Oh Godlike One
but when you get it WRONG you have to be ready to fix it[/quote]
This is just personal opinion though.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
So if 'players love it' why did they stop playing is massive numbers just two weeks after launch?[/quote]
Couldn't tell you. Probably due to the frustration on Bungie's new direction with this Halo. And with Modern Warfare building a huge positive reputation since 2007, it was easy to just switch over to that. Before 2007, in my opinion, Halo was [b]the[/b] game to be played. There were other console FPS's out there but no such competition like Call of Duty. By the time Reach released I think there was probably a bigger COD fanbase over Halo. Is it so unusual for huge online multiplayer traffic for a game right after it's release? 2 weeks was plenty of time to get your dosage of Reach in and return to COD. That doesn't mean Reach was terrible. Just means COD is more popular these days. I've seen you pull the numbers as of lately. Black Ops II has more people playing it than Halo 4. Doesn't mean Halo 4 is awful.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
First rule of commerce - you offer what the customer desires, not what you want them to desire.
(and if you cant follow that simple rule, then dont start complaining when the customers say they hate your product)[/quote]
If huge and popular companies like Nike and lead designer Tinker Hatfield listened to that way of thinking, they wouldn't be the most successful, favored, and dominant athletic company today.. that's for sure. It's called innovation. When you do something different, you have to have pretty thick skin.[/quote]
Innovation fine ... but when you get it [b]WRONG[/b] you have to be ready to fix it, listen to your customers, respond.
Did bungie [b]EVER[/b] release a patch to fix any of the issues in reach (and yes, there are may web pages devoted to the game glitches).
([i]and lol, did Nike ever issue a ban if you kept quitting wearing their shoes ... stupid bungie[/i])
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
Majority of players aren't going to flood the forums if they like a game, they're gonna spend time playing it.[/quote]
True ... and even after having record breaking pre-order sales, and record day-1 sales ... bungie online numbers dropped just 2 weeks after launch.
So if '[i]players love it[/i]' why did they stop playing is massive numbers just two weeks after launch?
- did it lack entertainment value?
- was if too buggy?
- or did people just truely hate it?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b]The Shift Key
Also, I think the voting system was a bad idea. That was another thing that ruined MM for me. It was not fun watching all those gametypes/maps get voted down just so I would have to play DMR starts again.[/quote]
I'll agree with this. I didn't care for voting or vetoing, for that matter. In Halo 3 you at least needed one person from the other team to veto in order to get a map change. Having a voting system in Reach though, made everyone play the same gametypes over and over again. Like Halo 4 now. If Haven or Exile come up, you'll play it until it isn't an option anymore.

I feel like it could have been the perfect Halo.
If they hadn't decided to make loadouts part of the default gameplay, and kept it to the traditional "golden triangle," Reach would've been the best Halo yet.
Also, I think the voting system was a bad idea. That was another thing that ruined MM for me. It was not fun watching all those gametypes/maps get voted down just so I would have to play DMR starts again.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Kira Onime
I guess that means they're similar the on an another[/quote]
What???
Similar, but not identical. Hockey is similar to soccer. Both have the same general [b]idea[/b]. Get the ball/puck into the goal. Does soccer have power plays? Does hockey have yellow and red cards? See how they are similar but different as well? Equipment had the same idea as armor abilities. I realize when you deploy a bubble shield its not the same as becoming invincible and giving off an EMP burst if you get too close. But you were invincible from everything outside the bubble for a limited time.. just like armor lock. Just forget it, dude. If anything agree to disagree.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda[/quote]
One has to be found to obtain and is 1 time use only.
Other is off-spawn and unlimited use
Both act, and change the gameplay very differently than the other.
I guess that means they're similar the on an another
/flawless logic

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b]Kira Onime
Hardly similar at all.
Once required you to fight for it.
Other required you to die and take it off-spawn.
One of them was also a 1 time use.
Other was unlimited as long as the charge was there.[/quote]
You just did a good job describing why they are similar. It was the same idea is what I'm saying. Similar means: having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical. This could also be personal opinion. Examples might be Bubble Shield and Armor Lock. Radar Jams also had the same effect on the radar as Active Camo did. If you want more examples, just ask.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
In Halo 3 they introduced equipment. Did everyone hate that also? It was pretty similar if you ask me.[/quote]
Hardly similar at all.
Once required you to fight for it.
Other required you to die and take it off-spawn.
One of them was also a 1 time use.
Other was unlimited as long as the charge was there.
Yet, you think they're "similar".
wat
[Edited on 12.11.2012 10:34 AM PST]

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Oh Godlike One
First rule of commerce - you offer what the customer desires, not what you want them to desire.
(and if you cant follow that simple rule, then dont start complaining when the customers say they hate your product)[/quote]
If huge and popular companies like Nike and lead designer Tinker Hatfield listened to that way of thinking, they wouldn't be the most successful, favored, and dominant athletic company today.. that's for sure. It's called innovation. When you do something different, you have to have pretty thick skin. People are going to take shots at you, criticize, and get upset about things they don't understand. Whether or not you may believe it, I think Reach was pivotal to the Halo franchise and more people liked it than hated it. Majority of players aren't going to flood the forums if they like a game, they're gonna spend time playing it.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
Reach was excellent, refreshing, and exactly what the Halo franchise needed. If any of you followed the progress that led up to Reach's release then you know that Bungie was trying to go in a different direction with this game.[/quote]
Yeah .. cripple the whole halo brand.
Killing halo would mean one less successful title to compete against come the release of their next game.
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Captain Nimda
If those old video docs are still available through XBL you should download them. Reason I mention that is because it seems a good chunk of the community was completely slapped across the face with this game. So many people hated it, didn't expect it, said this isn't Halo, etc.[/quote]
lol ... reminds me of those w@nker chefs, who when you order a char grilled steak refuse and deliver something ultra rare.
First rule of commerce - you offer what the customer desires, not what you want them to desire.
([i]and if you cant follow that simple rule, then dont start complaining when the customers say they hate your product[/i])

Reach was excellent, refreshing, and exactly what the Halo franchise needed. If any of you followed the progress that led up to Reach's release then you know that Bungie was trying to go in a different direction with this game. If those old video docs are still available through XBL you should download them. Reason I mention that is because it seems a good chunk of the community was completely slapped across the face with this game. So many people hated it, didn't expect it, said this isn't Halo, etc. And how many people played the beta? I know it was just a beta, but they are usually pretty accurate representations of what the game will be.
The biggest complaint with this game seems to be the armor abilities. In Halo 3 they introduced equipment. Did everyone hate that also? It was pretty similar if you ask me. Sure, everyone came to love the battle rifle and it was missing. Nothing was wrong with the DMR and needle rifle, though. Everyone was just frustrated with bloom. It wasn't that hard to learn how to use it. They brought the pistol back anyway, zoom and all. Something the Halo community was crying for since its departure in Halo CE.
Every single Halo had its frustrations, I think. And players had to find ways to deal with it and get use to them. By the time Reach became available I think majority of people were fed up, didn't want to deal with it, and therefore complained. Most of you complainers probably played the crap out of Reach anyway. If you didn't like the game Halo 3 matchmaking was still up and running. Might have taken a while to get through a couple games, but it was there. Much like Halo 4 now. Lot of complaining going on. No one is forcing you to play.

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] fortifythamind
I would have to agree..[/quote]
Your opinion on Reach is "[i]I would have to agree[/i]" ??
Is that going with your mamma's policy of "[i]if you cant say anything nice ...[/i]"?

[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] Scarecrow20009
berzerkcommando...why cant you be nice? and im looking for 1v1s. my rec 65-4
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] BerzerkCommando
[quote][b]Posted by:[/b] aquafox14
I think if ur a halo fan u shouldnt hate the games bungie and microsoft bring out cos then ur not one.
Also halo reach has new things on it:
New game modes eg. Invasion, infection alpha zombies etc
New maps
Elite/human firefight
Customize ur dude
Theatre
New weapons
Assassination on both charactors
Cool forge
Armour abilities
Mlg for pro players
And grif ball
Story fits in with all the other halo storyline which makes sense[/quote]
Can you kill the English language anymore with one post? [/quote] Cant you just be nice??[/quote]
LOL. What are? A 12 year old? You're not going to last long here kid...
[Edited on 12.19.2012 1:22 PM PST]