I love how this guys pens a thoughtful and thought-provoking column that even translated into English gets people talking, and still the pedants on Fark have to waste their time picking apart the grammar flubs and translational errors.

theteacher:This sentence is well said? "And, isn't the Iraqis are the ones who are destroying their own country?"

Smoking GNU:FTA: Finally, if many of the Arab states are in such disarray, then what happened to the Arabs' sworn enemy (Israel)? Israel now has the most advanced research facilities, top universities and advanced infrastructure. Many Arabs don't know that the life expectancy of the Palestinians living in Israel is far longer than many Arab states and they enjoy far better political and social freedom than many of their Arab brothers. Even the Palestinians living under Israeli occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip enjoy more political and social rights than some places in the Arab World. Wasn't one of the judges who sent a former Israeli president to jail is an Israeli-Palestinian?

I did not know that.

/Also, truth is a very bitter pill to swallow, especially if you've been living with the lie for more than half a century.

It's easier to control your populace when you can present a believable-enough bogeyman.

mauricecano:Alonjar: Why is it that Israel was given Jerusalem anyhow? Was it just a big middle finger from the catholic church in the power vacuum after WW2?

"Haha told you dirty arabs we'd take that shiat back one way or another!"

Had nothing to do with the catholic church and you might want to see a therapist if you see a catholic conspiracy everywhere.

But the reason Israel now has Jerusalem is because of the Palestinians and Arabs themselves. The initial Jewish boundary state of Israel was much smaller and Jerusalem was squarely in Palestine. However, the war of 1948 with the Arabs changed all that since the Israelis won and they decided to say "to the victors, spoils" and claimed virtually everything that is Israel today. Below is a good map showing the change in territory coverage from 1947-pre war to post-war and how Jerusalem became Israeli property.

give me doughnuts:Rashnu: Much of the history of the world is writ through conquest and displacement. Damned Romans, how did they not realize that it's self-evidently wrong and acknowledge that it's only fair that the world stays in complete geopolitical stasis. I'm still worried about the Tibet. Did we free it yet? Fait accompli is obviously the best way to take land in the modern era. Demographic warfare is the new battlefront I suppose. If you can't outfight 'em, outbreed 'em (at some point in the nearish future we'll realize that expanding populations beyond replacement rates is an equally immoral form of resource theft).

Follow the "Featherston Doctrine" of excess population reduction.

Wait, did you just 'alternate timeline' Godwin me? Though there is actually a real Jake Featherston of the 19th century who, in respect to policy towards New Zealand's Maoris, advocated a policy of "wait" rather than conquest to obtain Maori lands. Temporizing and delaying he saw could only be a benefit in "dealing with a race that is continually decreasing on behalf of a race that is continually increasing. It is easier to grow into the undisturbed sovereignty of New Zealand than to conquer it." Something the Palestinians and La Raza crowd could keep in mind if they're feeling patient. Though I assume whitey ain't goin' out like that and will go all Republic of Gilead style.

Giltric:On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

Why should they? Palestinians are more Jewish than Arab.

The dirty secret of the Middle East is that despite claims to the contrary, Palestinians are not Arab. They're Jewish converts to Islam. The story of the Jewish Diaspora in the 1st-2nd Centuries AD is only half-true; not all Jews were expelled. Some remained behind, and many had converted to Christianity by that time. When the armies of Islam marched in during the 7th Century AD, these quasi-Jewish/Christian Palestinians, wanting to get in good with their conquerors, started converting over to their religion.

Seriously, the whole Palestinian mess could be solved overnight if the Palestinians would convert back to the faith of their ancestors and re-adopt Judaism. The Israeli authorities could hardly discriminate against one of their own, now could they?

give me doughnuts:Philip Francis Queeg: We were rapidly building up forces in the Philippines, including long range bombers which could strike at Japaneses bases in Formosa, which had been under Japanese sovereignty since 1895.

This build-up never really got past the planning stages. Alternative plans were also drawn up for a complete abandonment of the Phillipines.

No, you don't understand: East Good, West, especially Jews, Bad. It's interesting to see the argument that the Japanese "pre-emptive strike" against Pearl Harbor was justified because they were entitled to protect the land they had stolen in 1895. Somebody bring up the Rape of Nanking; I want to hear PFQ justify that.

clambam:give me doughnuts: Philip Francis Queeg: We were rapidly building up forces in the Philippines, including long range bombers which could strike at Japaneses bases in Formosa, which had been under Japanese sovereignty since 1895.

This build-up never really got past the planning stages. Alternative plans were also drawn up for a complete abandonment of the Phillipines.

No, you don't understand: East Good, West, especially Jews, Bad. It's interesting to see the argument that the Japanese "pre-emptive strike" against Pearl Harbor was justified because they were entitled to protect the land they had stolen in 1895. Somebody bring up the Rape of Nanking; I want to hear PFQ justify that.

You are truly a moron. I have repeatedly said that all three examples of "pre-emptive" war gave are utter bullshiat and completely unjustified.

clambam:give me doughnuts: Philip Francis Queeg: We were rapidly building up forces in the Philippines, including long range bombers which could strike at Japaneses bases in Formosa, which had been under Japanese sovereignty since 1895.

This build-up never really got past the planning stages. Alternative plans were also drawn up for a complete abandonment of the Phillipines.

No, you don't understand: East Good, West, especially Jews, Bad. It's interesting to see the argument that the Japanese "pre-emptive strike" against Pearl Harbor was justified because they were entitled to protect the land they had stolen in 1895. Somebody bring up the Rape of Nanking; I want to hear PFQ justify that.

you missed the point by a mile clambam. He is making a direct comparison between the claims of Japan in '41 to the claims of Israel in '67. He is not using them to justify anything, he is using it as an example of "This is unjust for the same reasons"

Mouser:Giltric: On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

Why should they? Palestinians are more Jewish Jordanian than Arab.

The dirty secret of the Middle East is that despite claims to the contrary, Palestinians are not Arab. They're Jewish converts to IslamJordanian. The story of the Jewish Diaspora in the 1st-2nd Centuries AD is only half-true; not all Jews were expelled. Some remained behind, and many had converted to Christianity by that time. When the armies of Islam marched in during the 7th Century AD, these quasi-Jewish/Christian Palestinians, wanting to get in good with their conquerors, started converting over to their religion.

Seriously, the whole Palestinian mess could be solved overnight if the Palestinians would convert back to the faith of their ancestors and re-adopt Judaism. The Israeli authorities could hardly discriminate against one of their own, now could they? go back to Jordan or leave islam

Joe Blowme:Mouser: Giltric: On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

Why should they? Palestinians are more Jewish Jordanian than Arab.

The dirty secret of the Middle East is that despite claims to the contrary, Palestinians are not Arab. They're Jewish converts to IslamJordanian. The story of the Jewish Diaspora in the 1st-2nd Centuries AD is only half-true; not all Jews were expelled. Some remained behind, and many had converted to Christianity by that time. When the armies of Islam marched in during the 7th Century AD, these quasi-Jewish/Christian Palestinians, wanting to get in good with their conquerors, started converting over to their religion.

Seriously, the whole Palestinian mess could be solved overnight if the Palestinians would convert back to the faith of their ancestors and re-adopt Judaism. The Israeli authorities could hardly discriminate against one of their own, now could they? go back to Jordan or leave islam

That's the other dirty secret of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. The Arab nations don't want the Palestinians.

give me doughnuts:Joe Blowme: The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Girion47: Think about the money we've spent on wars outside our borders, what could it have gone to?

For the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the US could have fitted every house in the country with either solar power or a geothermal heating/cooling system and had a few hundred billion dollars left over for hookers and blow.

Instead we gave 39+million people a chance at freedom and self determination Why do you hate brown people?

So you think the only way Iraq and Afghanistan could have freed themselves from tyrannical governments and directed the course of their countries' future was by begging white people for help?

You racist.

Thousands of years of history tells us they cannot free themselves from a tyrannical government. Of coarse it also tells us that they will immediately install another tyrannical government at their earliest opportunity.

Philip Francis Queeg:You are truly a moron. I have repeatedly said that all three examples of "pre-emptive" war gave are utter bullshiat and completely unjustified.

Reduced to ad homninem attack. You lose, I win.

Wicked Chinchilla:you missed the point by a mile clambam. He is making a direct comparison between the claims of Japan in '41 to the claims of Israel in '67. He is not using them to justify anything, he is using it as an example of "This is unjust for the same reasons"

Israel did not pre-emptively attack the Arabs in 1967 to grab territory. Israel pre-emptively attacked the Arabs to prevent the Arab attack that was blatantly in the works given the scope and location of their military build-up. As far as the '67 War being an excuse for territorial aggrandizement, um, does "the Sinai peninsula" ring a bell with you? You know, that enormous piece of territory, complete with actual oil deposits, that Israel willingly gave back to Egypt in return for a peace treaty? The West Bank and Gaza weren't conquered by Israel; they were abandoned by the Jordanians and Egyptians, who frankly were no more interested in dealing with the Palestinians than the Israelis are (the Jordanians are already 60% Palestinian, so the royal family probably gave a huge sigh of relief when they were able to shuck off a chunk of territory filled with extremist kooks).

Mouser:Giltric: On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

Why should they? Palestinians are more Jewish than Arab.

The dirty secret of the Middle East is that despite claims to the contrary, Palestinians are not Arab. They're Jewish converts to Islam. The story of the Jewish Diaspora in the 1st-2nd Centuries AD is only half-true; not all Jews were expelled. Some remained behind, and many had converted to Christianity by that time. When the armies of Islam marched in during the 7th Century AD, these quasi-Jewish/Christian Palestinians, wanting to get in good with their conquerors, started converting over to their religion.

Seriously, the whole Palestinian mess could be solved overnight if the Palestinians would convert back to the faith of their ancestors and re-adopt Judaism. The Israeli authorities could hardly discriminate against one of their own, now could they?

What the... I don't even...

Actually, while it is true that the Jews have maintained a small presence in Israel since the Diaspora and of course for 1800 years before that, the vast majority of the inhabitants of Palestine at the time of the Arab Conquest were Christians. Jews tend to cling to their religion no matter what, which is why there are still Jews... and why there aren't more of them. However, I totally agree with you. Were the Palestinians to convert en masse to Judaism the Israelis would have no choice but to accept them as citizens. You have to understand though, it's not a matter of "I want to be a Jew." There is a lot of study and reading involved, there's a test, and spelling counts. Generally it takes about two years to convert to Orthodox Judaism if you devote yourself to it full time. The Palestinians are of course welcome to undertake this onerous task, as is anyone else sincerely interested in converting. By comparison:

Two Jews are walking past a Catholic church with a sign outside: "Convert and Get a Thousand Dollars." One of the Jews says "I'm going to check it out." An hour later he comes back and his friend says "Well? Did you get the thousand dollars?" and the other one says "Is that all you people think about?"

Wicked Chinchilla:Joe Blowme: Mouser: Giltric: On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

Why should they? Palestinians are more Jewish Jordanian than Arab.

The dirty secret of the Middle East is that despite claims to the contrary, Palestinians are not Arab. They're Jewish converts to IslamJordanian. The story of the Jewish Diaspora in the 1st-2nd Centuries AD is only half-true; not all Jews were expelled. Some remained behind, and many had converted to Christianity by that time. When the armies of Islam marched in during the 7th Century AD, these quasi-Jewish/Christian Palestinians, wanting to get in good with their conquerors, started converting over to their religion.

Seriously, the whole Palestinian mess could be solved overnight if the Palestinians would convert back to the faith of their ancestors and re-adopt Judaism. The Israeli authorities could hardly discriminate against one of their own, now could they? go back to Jordan or leave islam

That's the other dirty secret of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. The Arab nations don't want the Palestinians.

Look at how the UN defines and treats refugees everywhere else (UNHCR), and then look at how they define and treat "Palestinian" refugees (UNRWA).

Muta:So attitudes never change. The US is still at war with Canada over the invasion in 1812.

It's the incident with the pig back in 1859 that's the real motive for the ongoing strife. The US got distracted by some internal problems shortly after, but after we get the repercussions from that settled out, we'll be taking up the issue with Canada once more.

Giltric:On May 14, 1948 the state of Israel was declared. And just one day after that, on May 15, 1948 the Arabs declared war on Israel to get back Palestine.

They arabs were always keen on rescuing the land from the jews....but never keen on rescuing the Palestinians.

"Palestinians" are their own people, abandoned by their home nations when those nations who went after Israel were crushed. They abandoned their own citizens and Israel had to establish refugee camps to try and handle this vast human disaster created by Arab adventures.

But then, most people know nothing of Yuri Andropov's sworn Cause. What he lived for every day.

From Pavel Stroilov's Behind Desert Storm to Yuri Andropv's Incandescent Hatred of Jews to the Mitrokhin Archives the real truth is Red Russia's bloody hands all over the Middle East with intrigues, assassinations, political corruption, propaganda piled upon propaganda saturating our American MSM and it's willing sycophants who tout the Party line.

To defeat America Andropov like his predecessors and his antecedents in the new, sanitized version of Russian Evil chose a course of deploying the massive, intractable, easily stirred up and mostly illiterate Muslim mob to conduct a proxy war for Russia. Tie hatred of Jews to America as the Great Satan and let nature take it's course. Andropov had 4,000 agents in Egypt alone spewing propaganda and manipulating Muslim sentiments behind the lines.

Then there's Iran. And Syria, both client states. The tussle between the US and Russia over Turkey and Pakistan. Wherever you look the red hands of Russia are at work, or as Gorbachev said just this past week, the Arab Spring is the last act of our Cold War.

Or, we could just read Laura Logan's speech in Chicago Link October 07, 2012

abb3w:Muta: So attitudes never change. The US is still at war with Canada over the invasion in 1812.

It's the incident with the pig back in 1859 that's the real motive for the ongoing strife. The US got distracted by some internal problems shortly after, but after we get the repercussions from that settled out, we'll be taking up the issue with Canada once more.

pdee:The Evil That Lies In The Hearts Of Men: Girion47: Think about the money we've spent on wars outside our borders, what could it have gone to?

For the cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars the US could have fitted every house in the country with either solar power or a geothermal heating/cooling system and had a few hundred billion dollars left over for hookers and blow.

Is there a widely-accepted standard of closure in territorial disputes? I mean, not many people are suggesting the Normans give England back to the Anglo-Saxons. And Panama probably won't stop being an independent country anytime soon. But in other cases, reparations are being paid, and "who rightfully owns what" is still under discussion.

314/:Is there a widely-accepted standard of closure in territorial disputes? I mean, not many people are suggesting the Normans give England back to the Anglo-Saxons. And Panama probably won't stop being an independent country anytime soon. But in other cases, reparations are being paid, and "who rightfully owns what" is still under discussion.

Do the big brains provide any consistent guidance on this one?

The traditional methods are:

1. Wipe out the entire population that was there before you.2. Assimilate the conquered group through inter-marriage with their women.3. Hundreds of years of warfare and strife.