Cluny means well, english has it's difficulties, as do any language. ---Elena_9555 on 7/13/14

My point is that Cluny knows full well what "we" and "us" means. But he continually asks "who is we" or "who is us" in an attempt to discredit people and make them feel alone, when in reality, they are not. This was his reason for doing it here on this thread. He was wrong about most westerners preferring open caskets. And when he was corrected by Darlene, he attempted to discredit her by asking "who is we?", as if to say, "speak for yourself". If I thought Cluny actually didn't know "we" means, I wouldn't have said anything.

I believe that "we" and that mean all of us who answer, answer in a way that many others take wrong. One reason is that we all make mistakes. "We" and that means all of us, should be a little less judgmental about others. Not everyone has the same education. Yet even when someone makes a mistake on words, "we" that means some of us, can mostly tell what the other is saying. "We" is a word that has a lot of meanings depending on how the person uses it. Agape

\\It's ironic how someone who claims to be as educated in English as Cluny doesn't seem to know what the word "we" means. I have noticed a recent trend with Cluny asking people who "we" or "us" are. Of course, even small children know what "we" and "us" means. \\

I've noticed that there are many people who say "we" when nobody is meant but the poster.

To put it another way, the poster thinks that everyone agrees with him or her.

To Bro.Jed, much respect your post here about the "we" and the "us" you are a mess! Cluny means well, english has it's difficulties, as do any language.I had gotten used to his proper english,really sometimes hard to understand words,run & get diccionary.God get the glory God get the praise! We are all God's children..I just like us, to get along.smilesGod bless you and your family.

It's ironic how someone who claims to be as educated in English as Cluny doesn't seem to know what the word "we" means. I have noticed a recent trend with Cluny asking people who "we" or "us" are. Of course, even small children know what "we" and "us" means. This is common knowledge. In this particular instance Darlene clearly indicates who the "we" is when she said "In Texas we have open caskets". The "we" are people in Texas. Another example: If someone says "We have music in my church", the "we" refers to the people in their church. This is so elementary.

The last open casket funeral in my family was my grandmothers (in 1971). My kid brother was virtually traumatized. Many years later he was responsible for arranging our mother's funeral (daughter of that Grandma). She has already said she was not to have an open casket but, even if she had not said that I'm sure it would have been closed.

We are not all the same and should be aware of the sensitivities of others but, of course, it is impossible to please everyone.

I'm not sure where Cluny lives, so I can't tell whether he is speaking from experience or if he, once again, is acting as an authority on subjects he knows little to nothing about. Perhaps he thinks he knows because he read somewhere that westerners have closed caskets.

Regardless, I can confirm from experience that this is not the case. Every funeral I have ever attended, regardless of denomination, has had an open casket unless the deceased suffered physical trauma that left the body disfigured.

What is the point of a closed casket? It simply allows people to indulge in denial.

Orthodox funerals are done with the casket open to deal realistically with the state of death.

The service has hymns to this effect: "Behold our brother (sister) lying in his/her coffin, inglorious and hideous! Why are we delivered to death, the grave, and corruption? Surely this is by the command of God Who gives rest to the departed, and will bestow resurrection."

Dear Mary,It is sad to see the person who is dead in an open casket. I believe the reason they have the open casket is for the purpose of friends to say their last goodbyes. It is a tradition. It use to be that in past years the caskets were at the family's house. That is real sad. I was at a house many years ago where there was three caskets, each one in different rooms. All three got killed at a horse race in Mexico. They kept them there for four days. I was young and it was awful to see them. But remember, you do not have to go to them and see them. My mom wanted her casket to be open, and it was. All her friends came to see her for the last time. Agape

My late brother-n-law, when we saw him in the casket, we couldn't believeIt! he did drugs most all his life, they made him look 25yrs.old, he actually was 65 yrs.old.He loved baseball, they put his baseball uniform,special baseball hat from Miami,,his favorite baseball shoes on. It really "creep me" out.

My sister died at the same age, and my family decided to dress her for her casket in her orchestra uniform, but left her feet bare because she didn't care to wear shoes or socks when she didn't need them in life. I gave them a pillow to put at her feet, and I put her converse shoes in her casket at her funeral just because I thought she should have them. It was hard to look at her, but I wouldn't have had the opportunity to do a last thing for her if her casket wasn't open.

Shira, I'm so sorry for both of your loses. Losing a son or a daughter would be so hard to bare. I hope that doesn't happen to me while I'm alive. It would just be too hard to handle. Since the wife of my kids is gone, I would really feel the pain. I wanted to close the casket also, only because she was not made to look better as she did in life. But my kids wanted all her friends to say good bye. It was so hard on them. I heard when i was young the more kids you have the better one feels when one is lost, cause everyone shares the hurt. But I believe the more you have the more chances you will lose one. Blessings to you sister, my prayers are for you and family.

When my sweet husband passed away in 07, the casket was opened for visitation and before the services. Once the services started, I chose to close it to deal with my own grief. It was hard enough for it to be opened at the visitation. Same when my daughter passed away.

Sister Darline, thank you so very much for your answer. I believe now that she had made up her mind not to say what she wanted to say after I told her everything was forgiven and in the past. I had mentioned that to her once before, when we got back together, that I would never bring it up, what was in the past was forgiven, and didn't have to answer to me ever. We had the most wonderful 8 years before she died. She was so happy and her love for Christ, me and everyone was unquestionable. Nothing she would have said would have changed anything for me, I know that in my heart. Thank you so very much.

Mark V you're welcome. No one could say if it was right or wrong but I can say this,your heart was in the right place,which was a loving place, and you did what you felt was right at the time. When we do all we can and we consider it right,as the Bible says when we have done all,then stand. I will say one thing since she never brought it up again she must have had it settled in her mind and heart that your approach was the right one for her. She had your forgiveness and love what more could anyone ask for from you. You had given her one of the greatest treasures in the world.

Sister Darline, thank you again for your words. I shouldn't let it bother me, but it does sometimes. I also remember after we got back together in 91, I had promised God that if we ever got back together I would never mention anything that happened while she was gone. A month before she died we were on a trip talking about the kids, suddenly she wanted to tell me something. It sounded like she was going back to the past, to confess something to me, so I ask if it had to do with when she was gone, and she said yes. I said that all was forgiven, no need to bring it up. Sometimes I wonder if I should have let her. I know it doesn't matter now but I should have given her the opportunity to get something that bothered her. Do you think I did right?

Mark V you're very welcome. I can relate to what you feel. After my Sister-in-laws death her husband was at the house and I told him I felt bad because I couldn't come see her before she died. He told me not to,he knew and she knew I was sick and couldn't. I knew the nature of my disabilities prevented it but I still felt guilty,but his telling me took the guilt away. Dear Brother-in-Christ we must not allow the things we couldn't help to tear us apart. When we do the best we can at the time we must accept thats all we were capable of doing at the time. It isn't anyones fault it just was and we don't have to carry blame or guilt for God knows our hearts desire. When we give it all to Jesus he carries our burden and releases us from that weight.

Sister Darline, thank you so much for what you said. I still feel bad I did not pay more attention, but I was not myself for a long time. My kids did a great job considering they too were going through the same thing. I thank Our Lord that He gave us such wonderful kids. Now after 13 years, they talk all the time about their mom and how much her jokes made them laugh even today, when I visit them.

It is very comforting to see our loved ones in their casket when they have been made to look as good or like they did when alive. My Daughter-in-law did my Sister-in-laws hair and make up and since she was her hairdresser in life,and talented with makeup,she looked just beautiful. That helped us all since she had been sick for years before she died and she didn't look like the sick Sister she looked like the pretty one we all recognized. It is wonderful and amazing what a skilled makeup artist can do. Mark V I'm so sorry your wife didn't look like she did in life but her beauty will always live on in memories.

Strongaxe, you are so right. I have been to a lot of funerals and they look real good. In my former wife's case my sons and daughter made all the arrangements. They chose what casket and an open casket. My wife did not look like she did in life. Almost a thousand people came because the whole shift at Intel switched with the night shift to come to the funeral. I felt bad for my wife because I know she would have liked to look better then she did with all her friends there. I should have paid more attention to the funeral but I was so destressed. I do not allow that image of her in my mind, only the beautiful person she was in life. I loved her so much that in life I never saw one thing wrong with her.

Funeral homes are experts at using cosmetics, etc. to make the dead look like they did in life (and sometimes even better). What creeps me out at open-casket funerals isn't seeing loved ones in a casket - it's that they look so lifelike, one could imagine them waking up and climbing out at any minute!

Aka, you brought back memories of when I was a small child, with your answer.I remember in the early fifties, three man from my neighborhood in a small Texas town were killed at some horse races in Mexico. All three were put in this house, open for all to see, each in a different room in the house. What I saw scared me a lot that I still remember it very well. A long time ago they did not normally use funeral homes to keep the dead, they fixed them the best they could and relatives took them home for three to four days so people could pray and to see them for the last time, then the funeral. It was an aweful scene. Their faces were deformed, and didn't look like those I had seen alive. People should remember the good things not the bad.

my best friend went to his aunt's funeral. if he did not see all his family around, he'd swear that he was in the wrong place. in the casket, a body of an old lady in a pretty dress laid prostrate and seemingly at peace.

then his brother told him to imagine a hag wearing a tattered robe and worn out slippers cussing like a sailor with a fully smoked cigarette in her bony fingers and the ashes still hanging from the cigarette.

then, he was at peace. because like Darlene, this is what he remembered.

Cluny, you are playing with words. You first ask Darline who the "we" were. I answered and said almost everyone. What does almost everyone mean? Almost everyone. No matter where you come from or what church you belong to or what color you are, or whether you are fat, skinny, tall or short, almost everyone. "Almost everyone" I also said it is a tradition of man, not of God. I also said it matters not to the dead, they are dead. It matters a lot to the living. Why don't you try a different subject?

Cluny "we" are Pentecostal,Baptist,Methodist,Church of Christ,and other denominations here,including I went to my daughters best friends daddy's viewing and his coffin was open. It depends on the families wish if it is open during the main part of the funeral but it is before and after at most of them. I have never been to a RCC to a funeral nor an Orthodox,in fact I never have known of Orthodox churches being in this area,if so they are few and far between. Most denominations here in this area have the body at a funeral home where they have visitation night before the actual funeral,its advertised in the news paper and all the friends and family goes to console the loved ones of the deceased.

Cluny, if "we" is not almost everyone, who are the "we" to you? I suppose the "we" are the Eastern Orthordox? That somehow they have something from Scripture that others don't have. Sorry, but it's a tradition of man in most religions. Nothing in Scripture to how a person should be laid to rest for all time. The fact is that many are so damage no one would want to show that. Others are killed by animals and nothing is left. It is a choice that the living have to make. There is no instructions how to bury those and no right or wrong way of burying anyone.You are just cherry picking there Cluny.

Strongaxe, your correct. Before my mom died, she gave instructions what she wanted. When she died, my sister, a J. Witness, and I were in the funeral home making arrangements. She refuse to have open casket. And no crosses anywhere around her. My mom wanted a small empty cross to be put in her hand, my sister told the funeral home no crosses. She later made me a deat to have an open casket, but no crosses. We had an open casket and her friends did get to say their good byes. I just wanted to do what my mom wanted. Her last wish. So before they closed the casket, I put a very small cross in her hands. My sister did not see me. You are right, mom had no say for she was dead, but felt her wishes should have been met. It was a battle of the living.

Funerals themselves are entirely for the purpose of the living, and not the dead - the dead have already passed on to their reward (or punishment) long ago. So any traditions that go along with funerals are also entirely for the benefit of the survivors.

This is not necessarily the case in religions that believe that the living must help the dead into the afterlife (for example, the Egyptians buried their dead with tools to aid them in the afterlife) but in Christianity this is not the case.

Cluny, did you not read what I said? Here is what I said,"Cluny, you said "who's we?" the we is almost everyone." Did I exclude or include different denominations? I never mentioned denominations. You did. You said that is what your denomination does. I said nothing of a kind. I answered to the "we" that Darline mentioned. She also did not mention a denomination, only gave her testimony. Stop trying to find fault where there is none.

Cluny, you said "who's we?" the we is almost everyone. It all depends on what they family wants. And most want an open casket. This is a tradition of man. Most everyone wants a casket to be open, so that friends and family can say their good bye. It does nothing to the dead, but does for people who wanted to see them before the person was buried. In many cases the casket is close for many reasons, one, if the dead person was very damage by death. Other times families do not want to remember their relatives in a dead state, but in life, and not hold on to an image of death in their minds. This is a tradition of man because nothing is mention in Scripture.

\\in Texas we always have an open casket unless its not possible due to the condition of the body.\\

Who's "we"?

Among Roman Catholic, Anglicans, and (as far as I can tell), Lutherans, even in Texas, the casket is closed and covered by a pall.

Among the Orthodox, the casket is open, as I said. However, the face of a bishop, priest, monk, or nun is covered as a sign that the deceased henceforth beholds only the face of God. by His mercy and forgiveness.

Cluny just for information,in Texas we always have an open casket unless its not possible due to the condition of the body. My Dad had been sick for years with diabetes and luekemia which left his Movie Star good looks faded and sad. When he died after 17 days in the hospital I had no idea he would look good when fixed up for the funeral. It was a welcome surprise and amazing,somehow they restored his handsome looks and by having an open casket it helped me remember Daddy the way he had always looked which somehow eased my grief a little bit. It is also easier to say goodby with an open casket,theres no doubt the loved one is gone,you say goodby,and its final.

Cindy, have you lost anyone close to you? I agree that people grieve differently - some need the closure of open casket. I do. Others, it is ok not to have it. I know they are not there, but the funeral, for me, is my last goodbye to them in my humaness. I lost my precious older sister February 23rd and was glad to have opportunity to see her one last time & say goodbye. Yes, we took pictures! It seems when you start loosing those close to you, sometimes your thoughts and ideas change.

Cindy,you gave me a laugh,"blue as a Butterball Turkey",good one,and a merry heart doeth good like a medicine. You are right when all is said and done the most important thing is, is the person saved. Praise God my Dad was,so is my 90 year old Mom. Cindy I think your "are you ready" was for all who reads but just glad to say,I have been ready for 58 years. We all need to pray for the lost, beginning with those we know then leaders in the world and even strangers.

Funerals for the believer are completely different from the unbeliever's funeral.

Pastors, preachers can try to preach the unbeliever into heaven by speaking well of their life, but believers know the truth. It's a difficult funeral to sit through and one that leaves you empty. We are polite to the family but inwardly we know we have witnessed a very tragic event.

Cindy some of us think like this, my Dad was moviestar handsome but ill the last few years of his life with leukemia and diabetes. He then took pneumonia and fought for his life for 17 days and died. He looked really bad but they were able to make him up at funeral home where he was once again handsome,like the daddy I knew all my life before he was sick. It was a thrill and comfort to Mom and me and all our relatives that he looked more like he did when well. It was a blessing which helped the hurt.

Oh, look how good sister so and so looks!Dead people looking like they're alive is a rare event.Make-up has to be plastered on to cover. Have you ever let a turkey unthaw too long in the fridge? They turn blue and so do people.If you want everyone to see you dead, they have to make you over thoroughly.Down south, they even take photos of their loved ones in the casket, so they can remember.They pass them around, "didn't sister so and so look good?"I say, they look dead.

Well I am thinking that it is for the family. Perhaps to see their loved ones one last time. May I add something here. Why do you get so made-up that you don't even look like yourself? Unrecognizable in the casket?

I actually prefer open casket funerals - it's easier to get closure if you can see that the person is actually there, and actually gone.

On the other hand, I find it a little bit creepy - not that there's a body there, but because the funeral parlor people do such a good job, that the deceased usualy looks BETTER than they did in life, and they're so realistic, it looks like they're just sleeping and could get up at any moment.

Mary, I don't know if you are the same Mary that answered me on a different blog or not but here goes what I witnessed. When my mom was sick, I was with her the day she died. A few seconds after she died, I could tell the body there was not my mom. I touched her and all I could feel was a body, but not my mom. All of what she was had left her. I didn't feel anything for the body as I looked at it. When I left, what I had was who she was before her death. That body was not her.

#2. Mary: I could feel the spirit leaving her and it reminded me that she was not there anymore. If I felt she was, then I would be so upset that she would be under ground rotting, and when rains came she would be sick or something. But what really hurt was her loss to me, and the reminders of how hard she work all her life, and she missed the love of a husband for so many many years, for she was a single parent. The respect I hold for her is my way of life. She worked so hard for my sister and I.

#3. Mary: I have been to many funerals and I look at the person and I don't feel anything seeing the body, for I know in my heart they are not there anymore. I cannot speak for someone who lost a child, I sure don't know how they feel.

Over here in Northern Ireland open caskets are the norm, unless the body is in bad shape. I personally don't see the big deal in having open caskets. If you don't want to go in and look, you don't have to. Its all about personal choice. My mum wouldn't view a body, she says that she would rather remember them the way they were. I need to view for closure.

I've had some ideas about how I wish my body to be disposed of, but actually, since I won't BE there it's not going to be up to me in the end. I don't care how people remember me (if, indeed they do) other than that I loved Jesus and was greatly blessed by Him. Many of my family are not Christian. Thus I am leaving them a letter of testimony with a plea that they invite Jesus into their lives,ask forgiveness for their sins, and join me in Eternal Life.

donna9759 --Yes, if the person was a Christian it helps to remind yourself that they are in Heaven...no more pain...just rejoicing in the prescence of the Lord. That's fine BUT, it doesn't help the grieving person cope with the sense of LOSS of one who was very close to them.Sue--I don't think there was anything "sick" about you wanting to see your son. Sounds like it would have been heart-wrenching, but that should be YOUR choice.

every country and culture have differing funeral traditions. In New Zealand the Maori people call the funeral days a Tangi, where the body is taken to the tribal base, (the Marae) Unless severe injury indicates otherwise, an open casketis the norm. The body is never left alone, people come and go all the time. Small ceremonies are carried out where many tales are told of the person, and farewells are made. It can be a very emotional experience, but a large part of the grieving is done at this time.

I thought "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" so I really don't consider a Christian "dead." Do you think that helps with the grieving process? and their passing from this earth onto heaven? Knowing they're in heaven, fellow shipping with Jesus and Father and other Christians. I have heard a testimony of a very anointed man of God that people are in heaven now and are having a wonderful time with Jesus and others who are there.

I have to agree with Donna (YES, Donna, we do agree on somethings). People handle grief differently. Working in Long Term Care, I see a lot of death. Its a natural part of life. Some families handle it much better than others. Some choose to come and sit with the body for a while, others choose not to.

For myself, I do not want an open casket (I dont want a casket!). I want people to remember me how I was, not laid out before them.

When my 19 yr. old son died the funeral director had a closed casket for good reason but I wanted to see my son ... I wanted (in my sick, greiving mind) to make sure it was really him. He was at college when he died and it was like he was still alive...

this also helps loved ones say goodbye for now. though the dead are unconcious... or not living, it gives the living some time to grieve. the best part is not death itself , because God says death is an enemy & will to be consumed in the end, but looking forward to the ressurected life& joining lvoed ones again kepes our faith going ;-)

I've officiated at many funerals and leave the decision up to the family or to the intructions in the will if there is one. Some people, like yourself would prefer it open but many would. It depends on your preference. There is no right or wrong to either way.

In my family's Irish tradition, the body was laid out on a board or daybed, in the parlor of the family's living room. There was a wake, where someone from the family sat by the body day and night. Then there was the funeral and burial, followed by revelry in celebration of the deceased's life.

Now, of course, we have funeral homes and caskets to lay the body out in.

When my daughter passed away in 2004, we had a closed casket at the advice of my pastor. He told us it was his experience that an open casket invited more grief. I do wish I could have seen her just once more.

People handle grief differently. Some feel a closed casket is easier on them. But when my parents passed, I felt it was important for me to SEE them before burial. No one else was expected to do this if they chose not to. The death of a loved one is SO hard to believe...even knowing the facts..it doesn't seem quite real. You still expect them to walk through the door...you think of them as just being away on a trip ..even tho you know better. I needed that memory to accept that they were really dead.