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Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

I don't think there's much question that Russia is looking for a path to resurgence, and have been for some time. We could go the conspiracy route and wonder whether certain deep-cover factions in Russian politics didn't either engineer, actively help, or at least go along with the collapse of the Soviet Union in order to gain economic strength and wealth through western reforms, and simultaneously a new distrust of western culture among the Russian populace. I wouldn't necessarily put it past Putin to have been thinking this way for many years. He's capable of playing a very deep game--much deeper than any American politicians can manage.

I don't recall where I read it, but about a year before the collapse, some low level American and Russian diplomats were meeting and after a few too many Vodkas, the Russian supposedly spun a tale about how the Soviet Union was going to collapse, but that this was planned to basically unbalance everything and weaken the resolve and ability of the U.S., which would decommission its military and enter a long period of self-congratulatory, albeit premature, celebration. Meanwhile, the Russian people would suffer, and perceive their suffering to come at the hands of the West. The Russian petroleum industry would step things up, and pretty soon, Russia would be back with a lean fighting figure against a fattened and unaware opponent(i.e. us). And isn't this what's basically happened?

But whether this is believable and correct or not, I think the way things are going it may as well be. We can't pull our heads out of our asses long enough to start acting like a real country again lately, and there are now several strong Asian states (principally China and Russia) who can challenge the supremacy of the U.S. in international affairs.

Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

Originally Posted by ashurbanipal

I don't think there's much question that Russia is looking for a path to resurgence, and have been for some time. We could go the conspiracy route and wonder whether certain deep-cover factions in Russian politics didn't either engineer, actively help, or at least go along with the collapse of the Soviet Union in order to gain economic strength and wealth through western reforms, and simultaneously a new distrust of western culture among the Russian populace. I wouldn't necessarily put it past Putin to have been thinking this way for many years. He's capable of playing a very deep game--much deeper than any American politicians can manage.

I don't recall where I read it, but about a year before the collapse, some low level American and Russian diplomats were meeting and after a few too many Vodkas, the Russian supposedly spun a tale about how the Soviet Union was going to collapse, but that this was planned to basically unbalance everything and weaken the resolve and ability of the U.S., which would decommission its military and enter a long period of self-congratulatory, albeit premature, celebration. Meanwhile, the Russian people would suffer, and perceive their suffering to come at the hands of the West. The Russian petroleum industry would step things up, and pretty soon, Russia would be back with a lean fighting figure against a fattened and unaware opponent(i.e. us). And isn't this what's basically happened?

But whether this is believable and correct or not, I think the way things are going it may as well be. We can't pull our heads out of our asses long enough to start acting like a real country again lately, and there are now several strong Asian states (principally China and Russia) who can challenge the supremacy of the U.S. in international affairs.

What you said reminds me of this scene:

I would not doubt the Russian's capability to engineer something like you suggested.

Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

Originally Posted by ashurbanipal

but that this was planned to basically unbalance everything and weaken the resolve and ability of the U.S., which would decommission its military and enter a long period of self-congratulatory, albeit premature, celebration. Meanwhile, the Russian people would suffer, and perceive their suffering to come at the hands of the West. The Russian petroleum industry would step things up, and pretty soon, Russia would be back with a lean fighting figure against a fattened and unaware opponent(i.e. us). And isn't this what's basically happened?

But whether this is believable and correct or not, I think the way things are going it may as well be. We can't pull our heads out of our asses long enough to start acting like a real country again lately, and there are now several strong Asian states (principally China and Russia) who can challenge the supremacy of the U.S. in international affairs.

What the left started out doing in 1993, Obama has accomplished in less than six years.

The question is, will Putin give Obama another year to complete the job ?

Remember when America was numero uno, a super power ? I was only six years ago.

Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

I'm thinking Putin is thumbing his nose at the west. Not sure what it will gain him though.

Thoughts?

Maybe another tragic passenger airliner crash. In at least one of the 29 incidents over 2 days, Russian bombers turned off their identification transponders making it impossible for European air controllers to redirect civilian aircraft.

Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. -- Marine Corps General James 'Chaos' Mattis

Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

I'm thinking Putin is thumbing his nose at the west. Not sure what it will gain him though.

Thoughts?

The Might they wielded in the Cold War made it the best time they've had. They were somebody. Even better in some ways than the Golden Age of the Czars. And there are people that need a crisis to feel strong.

Re: Unusual Russian Flights Have NATO worried

Originally Posted by ashurbanipal

I don't think there's much question that Russia is looking for a path to resurgence, and have been for some time. We could go the conspiracy route and wonder whether certain deep-cover factions in Russian politics didn't either engineer, actively help, or at least go along with the collapse of the Soviet Union in order to gain economic strength and wealth through western reforms, and simultaneously a new distrust of western culture among the Russian populace. I wouldn't necessarily put it past Putin to have been thinking this way for many years. He's capable of playing a very deep game--much deeper than any American politicians can manage.

I don't recall where I read it, but about a year before the collapse, some low level American and Russian diplomats were meeting and after a few too many Vodkas, the Russian supposedly spun a tale about how the Soviet Union was going to collapse, but that this was planned to basically unbalance everything and weaken the resolve and ability of the U.S., which would decommission its military and enter a long period of self-congratulatory, albeit premature, celebration. Meanwhile, the Russian people would suffer, and perceive their suffering to come at the hands of the West. The Russian petroleum industry would step things up, and pretty soon, Russia would be back with a lean fighting figure against a fattened and unaware opponent(i.e. us). And isn't this what's basically happened?

But whether this is believable and correct or not, I think the way things are going it may as well be. We can't pull our heads out of our asses long enough to start acting like a real country again lately, and there are now several strong Asian states (principally China and Russia) who can challenge the supremacy of the U.S. in international affairs.

It's a plausible theory except for one minor detail.

The underlined.

Russia is a broken, chaotic and in many aspects consumed society.

Yes... Russian revenues from resources has grown.

Yes the Russian military has been able to grow to a certain extent... but in every other aspect Russian society is in deep crisis.

Drug and alcohol abuse is out of control and their birth rate has utterly collapsed.

Russia is on course to be one of the hardest and most financially liable nations for an aging population just after Japan and China and the worst part is in that department they have no scientific developments on the go to combat that crisis.

People think the Detroit is bad... Detroit is just but once example of how bad the former USSR is... hundreds of former industrial cities lay waste with drugs and prostitution rampant under the guise of a resurgent Russian economy which really only benefits the rich and wealthy in major population centers like Moscow and St Petersburg.

For anyone who thinks that Russia is a resurgent power, balance their recent resource success vs their societal brokenness and one will find an interesting conclusion.