The camera pans and shows a fenced yard area...that yard belongs to the pet food store that I used to work at lol.

I lived about a minute away from there, but was out of town when this happened.

/CSB or CSS in my case lol

Glad nobody was killed. One of the pilots landed on a resident's balcony IIRC.

This was actually a training flight, there was the pilot and the instructor who wasn't a pilot (again, IIRC). That detail brought a lot of outrage, but these guys did the best they could, given the situation. Had their engine failed and controls failed any further along than they did, with the speed of the aircraft, and the direction they were headed, they probably would have crashed into a hotel at the oceanfront.

Minerva8918:This was actually a training flight, there was the pilot and the instructor who wasn't a pilot (again, IIRC). That detail brought a lot of outrage, but these guys did the best they could, given the situation

The 'instructor' was a fully qualified pilot. The word student conjures up images of a brand new kid sitting in the seat for the first time.The guy driving, the 'student', could have been anything from a newbie, to an regular pilot on a periodic checkride. But even the newbies have many, many hours in the simulator before leaving the ground. And then hours and hours in training jets (T-45) before getting into a real fighter.

YouPeopleAreCrazy:Minerva8918: This was actually a training flight, there was the pilot and the instructor who wasn't a pilot (again, IIRC). That detail brought a lot of outrage, but these guys did the best they could, given the situation

The 'instructor' was a fully qualified pilot. The word student conjures up images of a brand new kid sitting in the seat for the first time.The guy driving, the 'student', could have been anything from a newbie, to an regular pilot on a periodic checkride. But even the newbies have many, many hours in the simulator before leaving the ground. And then hours and hours in training jets (T-45) before getting into a real fighter.

I'm aware of the operations of the aircraft, and that the pilots go through many many hours if training before hopping into the jets lol, my hubby is in the Navy. We're seen our share of T-45s around the area :)

On another note, I always loved seeing the jets flying in formation as they are coming home from deployment! (random, I know)

Warthog:The official accident report on this crash (which I couldn't find again online) makes for an interesting read if you are into aviation. The pilots lost an engine while on their takeoff roll, and reasonably thought it was due to a tire failure (rubber ingestion by the engine isn't unheard of if the nose gear fails). They followed protocol and took off, then almost immediately lost most (but not all) thrust on the second engine for reasons unknown. Had they put the gear up and ditched their external tanks at that instant, they MIGHT have been able to limp it out to sea before ejecting. But their training said that with a tire failure you don't put the gear up, and you don't dump your fuel tanks over a populated area. So they flew the jet for about 90 seconds, ran out of airspeed, and ejected 50 feet above the ground (when they finally stalled and their jet stopped responding to control inputs and began to roll).

What makes the crash report interesting is that the lower level investigators put some blame on the pilots at first, saying that it was technically possible for the pilots to avoid the crash had they ditched the tanks and raised the gear. But then the SENIOR officials who had to sign off on the report said that was hogwash, and that the pilots had followed existing protocol to the letter. They said that naval aviation education about dual engine failure on takeoff was deficient, and that training needed to be changed and that the pilots did absolutely the best they could based on what they'd been taught. I was very impressed that in a high visibility accident like this, the senior brass did not throw the pilots under the bus but instead blamed the system (and the jet for failing).

SirDigbyChickenCaesar:JustGetItRight: obamadidcoke: They should be put in jail for ejecting and leaving the jet to crash in a populated area.

As opposed to staying on board and uncontrollable aircraft and dying when it crashed into the same populated area?

-5/10

feeding a troll

-eleventybillion/potato

No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

obamadidcoke:No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out

See, there is the problem in your logic...they weren't flying it anymore. They were stalled at that point so there was no more control. That plane was going to hit that spot at that time regardless of any further actions. Hell, even if they somehow managed to get an engine re-lit, they would probably still hit that spot only slightly faster. They were in extremis, time to punch.

obamadidcoke:SirDigbyChickenCaesar: JustGetItRight: obamadidcoke: They should be put in jail for ejecting and leaving the jet to crash in a populated area.

As opposed to staying on board and uncontrollable aircraft and dying when it crashed into the same populated area?

-5/10

feeding a troll

-eleventybillion/potato

No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

Either your trolling or have absolutely no knowledge of aviation or how aircraft work.

They had 0 power from one engine, and partial from the second. They were below the required power to maintain airspeed and were slowing down, whether they wanted to or not. It takes a certain amount of power to keep an airplane at a given speed, they did not have that amount of power available. Now, if an airplane doesnt maintain a certain speed (known as "stall speed", varies by aircraft) then the aircraft stalls. Now this isnt the stall a car does, "stall" in aviation terms means the wings are no longer getting the proper amount of airflow to maintain lift, and the aircraft literally falls out of the sky. The flight control surfaces also tend to lose handling below stall speed as well, making maneuvering nearly impossible. If your are several thousand feet up, its possible to recover from a stall. They werent high enough.

Bottom line, that airplane was falling out of the sky, and there was nothing anyone was doing about it.

Why yes, Ive spent my share of time around aviation...

/2 private pilots in the family//good friend was a pilot///worked at an airport

obamadidcoke:No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

On the 0.1% chance you're not trolling and are actually serious:1. With few exceptions, aircraft fly in one direction. Forward. About 3 seconds after they left the ground, they were over populated land.2. With one engine out and the other failing, your options are limited and getting worse.3. When the second engine eventually does not provide enough thrust to keep it in the air (speed + lift vs drag+gravity), it will come down.4. Off either end of the Oceana runway, there is no unpopulated land until you get to the ocean (about 3 miles). They did not have enough thrust to make it that far.5. When the base was built in the 40's, it was surrounded by unpopulated farmland. That has since changed.

In truth, they had one option. Invoke the reverse time machine in the cockpit, go back in time about a minute or so, and not take off.

In your vast aircraft experience, what do you think they should have done?

YouPeopleAreCrazy:obamadidcoke: No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

On the 0.1% chance you're not trolling and are actually serious:1. With few exceptions, aircraft fly in one direction. Forward. About 3 seconds after they left the ground, they were over populated land.2. With one engine out and the other failing, your options are limited and getting worse.3. When the second engine eventually does not provide enough thrust to keep it in the air (speed + lift vs drag+gravity), it will come down.4. Off either end of the Oceana runway, there is no unpopulated land until you get to the ocean (about 3 miles). They did not have enough thrust to make it that far.5. When the base was built in the 40's, it was surrounded by unpopulated farmland. That has since changed.

In truth, they had one option. Invoke the reverse time machine in the cockpit, go back in time about a minute or so, and not take off.

In your vast aircraft experience, what do you think they should have done?

/but yes..you are trolling

If it's so inevitable that they would crash maybe they should do this training over the ocean instead of over a heavily populated coastal city.

YouPeopleAreCrazy:obamadidcoke: No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

On the 0.1% chance you're not trolling and are actually serious:1. With few exceptions, aircraft fly in one direction. Forward. About 3 seconds after they left the ground, they were over populated land.2. With one engine out and the other failing, your options are limited and getting worse.3. When the second engine eventually does not provide enough thrust to keep it in the air (speed + lift vs drag+gravity), it will come down.4. Off either end of the Oceana runway, there is no unpopulated land until you get to the ocean (about 3 miles). They did not have enough thrust to make it that far.5. When the base was built in the 40's, it was surrounded by unpopulated farmland. That has since changed.

In truth, they had one option. Invoke the reverse time machine in the cockpit, go back in time about a minute or so, and not take off.

In your vast aircraft experience, what do you think they should have done?

/but yes..you are trolling

Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

obamadidcoke:YouPeopleAreCrazy: obamadidcoke: No, I just believe that If you fly a plane you are responsable for everything that happens when you are flying. These guys could have flown this plane into the ground in an unpopulated area, but they chose to eject to save themselves without regard for the people on the ground. They should never be allowed to fly again because their actions show a callous disregard for the innocent people on the ground.

When they had a problem they should have stayed over their own base instead of flying over a populated area to try to work it out.

On the 0.1% chance you're not trolling and are actually serious:1. With few exceptions, aircraft fly in one direction. Forward. About 3 seconds after they left the ground, they were over populated land.2. With one engine out and the other failing, your options are limited and getting worse.3. When the second engine eventually does not provide enough thrust to keep it in the air (speed + lift vs drag+gravity), it will come down.4. Off either end of the Oceana runway, there is no unpopulated land until you get to the ocean (about 3 miles). They did not have enough thrust to make it that far.5. When the base was built in the 40's, it was surrounded by unpopulated farmland. That has since changed.

In truth, they had one option. Invoke the reverse time machine in the cockpit, go back in time about a minute or so, and not take off.

In your vast aircraft experience, what do you think they should have done?

/but yes..you are trolling

If it's so inevitable that they would crash maybe they should do this training over the ocean instead of over a heavily populated coastal city.

Thought you should know you've been shadowbanned.

I am not sure why you were, but unless showdead is on in your profile, and most people leave it off, no one can see your posts.

obamadidcoke:If it's so inevitable that they would crash maybe they should do this training over the ocean instead of over a heavily populated coastal city.

To get to the ocean, you have to take off. In case you weren't aware, taking off involves going from zero to x00 mph, then arising from the ground. This then involves flying over the ground, until you get to the training area. In this case, the ocean.Which is where they were going.

As for 'inevitable'...it doesn't happen that often. And it's not only military aircraft. If Capt Sully's airliner had been hit a few seconds before or after it was, he would not have been able to land in the river. And crash in another 'heavily populated area'.

I know!. Let's move all the airports and military bases to unpopulated areas. We'll never have this problem again!(fast forward 50-60 years)

YouPeopleAreCrazy:obamadidcoke: And you guys call me a troll for suggesting that they should crash planes other than into populated areas and maybe pilots should stay with their planes instead of safely eject and allowing the plane to crash into an apartment building.

1. There is no such thing as " other than into populated areas" around that base2. With almost no thrust, the pilots had zero ability to influence where it came down. But they were trying.

You want to blame someone? Blame the Virginia Beach city council, for allowing all those houses, apartments and schools to be built there over the last 70 years.

Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

So instead of crashing where they did, they'd crash closer to the beach and risk hitting another populated area with a greater velocity? Wow... are you really that clueless about physics and aviation? When you're that close to crashing after a stall, putting remaining power to an engine that doesn't have any real thrust won't gain you anything. Especially a recover.

Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

So instead of crashing where they did, they'd crash closer to the beach and risk hitting another populated area with a greater velocity? Wow... are you really that clueless about physics and aviation? When you're that close to crashing after a stall, putting remaining power to an engine that doesn't have any real thrust won't gain you anything. Especially a recover.

Considering that they had a take off speed of about 130 Kts, 1 good engine and plenty of fuel it's not unreasonable that they could have put it into the ocean had they stayed with it.

This is what some people in Hampton Roads fear every time there's a major construction project in the works. Truth is, much of the area is in the "flight path" and jet noise can be heard everywhere. I remember when the AMC 24 theater opened in Hampton there was some push back/criticism from the Air Force for that reason.

Ultimately I believe that If you fly a plane over a heavily populated area and it starts to crash, you have a moral obligation to do everything to avoid killing people on the ground, even at the cost of your life. Civilian pilots do it all of the time. Perhaps we should disable the ejector seats in military aircraft on non-combat missions. Then these jerk offs would have the same choice set as civilian pilots.

" "The aircrew followed their procedures, but given the cascading series of problems and lack of thrust and altitude, continued controlled flight was not possible," said Branch. "It is our view that the aircrew's assessments were reasonable given the initial indications, and their actions were in accordance with training and procedure."

The JAGMAN investigation found that the crash occurred as a result of two significant, unrelated engine malfunctions, the first at takeoff and the second shortly after takeoff. The right engine failed due to ingestion of fuel into the right intake. The left engine afterburner failed to light when selected by the pilot after the right engine malfunction. Post-mishap analysis indicates the likely cause was failure of an electrical component, but several of the suspected components were damaged beyond the point of conclusive analysis in the crash and subsequent fire. "

In short, he was trying to do exactly what you suggest...full power to the remaining engine in attempt to keep flying. It did not work.

obamadidcoke:Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

They still should have stayed with it and attempted to re-light. Also they should have attempted to raise the gear and alter the angle of attack. Yes the plane was doomed when the Navy failed to do proper maintenance on the aircraft, but the pilot is still responsible.

I think the larger question here is why do we allow the Navy to fly these aircraft over cities when they can't maintain them and the pilots can just safely eject when things go bad.

baldrik78:obamadidcoke:Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

Jenius. Why didn't the pilots think of this?

Because they valued their own lives over those on the ground and decided to eject to safety rather than try everything.

obamadidcoke:Because they valued their own lives over those on the ground and decided to eject to safety rather than try everything.

You see that image upthread of the Russian jet crashing at the airshow. And the pilot ejecting as it is hitting the ground. That is pretty close to what happened here. The pilots (and seats and canopy) came down no more than 100' from the wreckage. They were trying everything, right up to the last second.In the linked video of the A/C going by the camera...they were probably still in it..

But no...your supposition is that they ejected at the first sign of trouble, miles away, and just let the jet crash where it may.

What did you expect them to do...get out and fix the 2 broken engines?

Okay I give up it's a miracle that poor aircraft design, poor maintenance by the Navy, and a "save yourself" attitude by the pilots only resulted in millions of dollars of property damage but no deaths.

It still doesn't address the larger question which is; why do we let these jerkoffs who can't keep a plane in the air practice over U.S. cities?

obamadidcoke:baldrik78: obamadidcoke:Pushed the angle of attack to 30 degrees, max power to the one working engine, gear up to clean up the airframe and ride it like a rocket to the ocean less than 3 miles away. Of course the pilots would have been lost, but they volunteered for this B.S.

Jenius. Why didn't the pilots think of this?

Because they valued their own lives over those on the ground and decided to eject to safety rather than try everything.

Well obviously. I mean, I would too. You guys have no idea how many of you I would kill so that I could keep living.

obamadidcoke:Okay I give up it's a miracle that poor aircraft design, poor maintenance by the Navy, and a "save yourself" attitude by the pilots only resulted in millions of dollars of property damage but no deaths.

It still doesn't address the larger question which is; why do we let these jerkoffs who can't keep a plane in the air practice over U.S. cities?

See, people...this is one of those times, when you have no idea what you're talking about...you shouldn't say anything.obamadidcoke does not know this.