Cruel Ultimatum is a powerful card in the format - if you can cast and resolve it (which can be a big 'if'). I am still wary of building control decks in the format as the metagame has yet to crystallize, imho. Until such time, I'm trying to build control decks which are all-around goodstuff.dec. That isn't the preferred method (as targeting metagames can be far more effective), but it is a place to start. Cruel Ultimatum has that 'good-stuff' thing going for it, so let's build around the card.

Because of coloration requirements and a lack of solid card filtering in the format (imho), I've stuck to UBr. The deck can go 5 color, but the manabase becomes weaker to do this. If we do splash, I think it should be for white (which has a lot of cards we like). Green doesn't have as much for this deck.

Noticably, I've not included sweepers. This is acceptable given that we are already playing Cruel Ultimatum. In addition, we've also got Fire/Groves and solid board stabilizers in Wurmcoil and Batterskull to produce CA.

It is difficult to have a deck which has a good game against both aggro and combo decks in the format. Suggestions for solving this problem would be especially appreciated.

It's really good to have things to bring back with Cruel; I like having random beaters to get in there with, too. I'll talk more about it later, I don't have much time to run through it!

4eak

10-17-2011, 08:00 PM

I've only got 10 creatures for Cruel Ultimatum, but it is has been decent enough. Most of the time, I've got something relevant to dig up.

The concentration on mana acceleration in your deck is interesting. It makes me want to play more Cruel Ultimatum's. It is kinda like accelerating into a Wildfire, but instead CU.

This is generally how I would want to use green. I'm also tempted by Loam (and subsequently, Raven's Crime) in a green list. The Plow Unders aren't convincing, but StE and Witness look great. I think Snapcaster Mage fulfills many of the same roles as E-witness without requiring :g::g: (especially if you build accordingly), and further, it doesn't telegraph your strategy (that information advantage has been powerful in my brief experience with SCMage). Normally, I'm slower to compare Mage and Witness because, in addition to the differences in targets, Witness doesn't require you to play your spells that same turn (making the mana requirements much lower). That mana concern, however, is not nearly as relevant in this deck.

I've never thought about Godo before, very cool. I'm not immediately convinced by it, but I will definitely be trying it out.

What's the argument for Flashfreeze over Mana leak? Flashfreeze is quite good in this format, but there seems to be plenty of dangerous decks in the format for which Flashfreeze seems inadequate. Mana Leak is dead in the late game, but by that time, this deck already has the tools to drown other decks in deep water.

I face a non-trivial amount of Affinity, enough that I would play Doom Blade before GtFT. I prefer Terminate to both, if you can swing the mana coloring.

peace,
4eak

Mr. Safety

10-18-2011, 09:58 AM

I can't help but want to squeeze in Tombstalker to that list. He finishes games fast, even if you don't ramp into a Cruel Ultimatum.

Here are some other decent targets for your 187/CU recursion:

Fleshbag Marauder
Mournwhelk
Spitebellows
Fulminator Mage

I also really like Halimar Depths for that list, in some number. Your early turns can spare 2-3 tapped lands, especially if it smooths out your subsequent turns. I know you have the Crumbling Necropolis' for tappers (neccessary for mana base stability) but I don't think 2 HD would hurt too much.

hi-val

10-19-2011, 11:20 PM

4eak, my thoughts were kind of like this: counterspells blow in this format and we have Coalition Relic; what are the best spells I can cast from turn 4 onward? Thus, maxing out Mr. Plow and aiming to just crank out Shriekmaws and Ultimatums.

I don't know whether I want Cryptic, since this deck just aims to tap out each turn. Maybe the new Creeping Mold would be a good call.

Admiral_Arzar

10-26-2011, 11:40 AM

I've been messing around with Grixis lists since the format started. Here is my current one:

The open sideboard slots would probably end up being Dragon's Claw or Sun Droplet as there is a lot of RDW in my meta (and it's a poor matchup). The weakest maindeck slot is Sedraxis Specter, largely because the card is the nuts against control but there's barely any control in the format. I used to run Makeshift Mannequin and Blightning but they got cut for countermagic. Damnation has proved instrumental at allowing me to stabilize against Zoo and Melira.dec. I played Wurmcoil originally but got pissed at how it gets owned by Path and cut it. Batterskull didn't do enough and also got cut. If you want a huge finisher I would recommend Grave Titan, but honestly the deck doesn't really need it. If you have trouble with 23 lands, add another and go up to 61 cards (I occasionally do). This deck REALLY misses Jace, I have noticed (I played a lot of Grixis in Alara/Zen standard).

Phototoxin

11-28-2011, 10:28 AM

Sorry for the necro but I've been thinkign of building this. More agressive and less controll-y

Preordain is banned. I would also recommend cutting Remand for Mana Leak, as the latter is superior IMO. You may want to consider Spell Snare as well.

SpikeyMikey

11-28-2011, 03:03 PM

There's more wrong with the deck than Preordain. You've got 5 removal spells (3 Terminate and 2 Damnation) and 4 overpriced Fog effects (Cryptic Command). Then you don't do anything relevant until turn 5 or 6 when you have enough mana to make Demigod. By this point, you've lost so hard to Zoo that you don't even get a game 2. The judge just awards them the 2-0 after G1 for doing 40 points to you before yout cast a relevant spell.

Seriously though, you need more than 3 spot removal spells and 2 sweepers if you're planning on doing nothing else but masturbating for the entire relevant portion of the game. By that point, Melira has combo'd out, Twin has combo'd out, Zoo has killed you multiple times over, White Weenie is at 60 life and is forecasting Proclaimation of Rebirth and all of the weird mid-range decks have some sort of recursive BS combo going on. In short, cut down on the discard and try and improve your removal suite. What does Demigod bring to the table that a different threat couldn't? You need UUU for Cryptic and 5 red or black mana for Demigod. I mean, I'm all for playing sketchy mana bases and making them work, but that seems a little ridiculous even to me.

Mr. Safety

11-28-2011, 03:16 PM

Forget that, my Bushwhacker-ed goblins have eaten his life total already by turn 3...

hi-val

11-28-2011, 04:03 PM

Sorry for the necro but I've been thinkign of building this. More agressive and less controll-y

I'll put my responses in-line

4 Demigod of Revenge
3 Vendilion Clique

>Demigod is really slow. Clique is kind of neat - Flash is really good, but it dies to a strong wind. It's unreliable as a finisher without a bunch of other little utility dorks dorking up the field and chewing life totals.

4 Blightning

>I recognize that this is a value card, but 3 mana for two cards isn't spectacular. The damage is kind of irrelevant if you're going to be slamming people with Demigods.

2 Cruel Ultimatum

> Love em

4 Cryptic Command

> In my control lists, I've been running two of these. They're exceptional utility cards (bounce Birthing Pod, for example) but they're really bad when all you're doing is Dismissing. When you hit four mana, I presume that you want to do more than just hold up four mana each turn without developing the board.

2 Damnation

> Love em

4 Preordain

> banned, and I don't think the alternatives are better at U. I recognize what you're going for, here - Preordain is a sly master at smoothing out that early game to make sure you can sweep on turn 4.

4 Remand

> the issue with Remand is that you're not playing a tempo deck. You Remand a Kitchen Finks and it just comes back the next turn. You Remand a Lightning Helix and you still haven't solved that problem. There's nothing that you're doing to make a Time Walk really matter because your aggressive cards aren't that aggressive.

3 Terminate

>these are fine, but there are other great options, too. Doom Blade, GFTT, Smother, Lightning Bolt, Arc Trail, Nameless Inversion and more have made their way through my control decks.

4 Thoughtseize

> I'm not hot on these guys.

Mr. Safety

11-28-2011, 04:07 PM

I think Shriekmaw should be a 4-of if you want it to be more aggressive. He pulls double duty as removal and threat. His interaction with Cruel Ultimatum is gravy, as it's his 3/2 body with fear attached to a Terror that makes him playable. The OP and other lists run it as a 3-of, but I say run all 4.

hi-val

11-28-2011, 10:40 PM

I've found this kind of deck to be really soft to Planeswalkers. You've got things under control and then they drop an Elspeth and start crunching you for 4 a turn. Yikes. Shrieky usually gets in with 3 damage per turn. I suppose you could also run Creeping Tarpan if you wanted manlands to kill 'walkers. Shriekmaw doesn't do a whole lot against Gideon, but I don't see him much.

Phototoxin

11-29-2011, 10:29 AM

Right so completely useless!

I love black. I'd like to play it in Modern but I don't know what deck to use. I thought grixis would be best as it's my favouite combination aside from golgari.

Anyone know of any such decks? I was looking at reanimator but seems highly expensive.

Admiral_Arzar

11-29-2011, 10:41 AM

I've found this kind of deck to be really soft to Planeswalkers. You've got things under control and then they drop an Elspeth and start crunching you for 4 a turn. Yikes. Shrieky usually gets in with 3 damage per turn. I suppose you could also run Creeping Tarpan if you wanted manlands to kill 'walkers. Shriekmaw doesn't do a whole lot against Gideon, but I don't see him much.

Between Tar Pits, Cliques, Bolts, Shriekmaws, and possibly other fliers (not to mention countermagic) this deck shouldn't have too much trouble with 'walkers.

SpikeyMikey

11-29-2011, 11:24 AM

Right so completely useless!

I love black. I'd like to play it in Modern but I don't know what deck to use. I thought grixis would be best as it's my favouite combination aside from golgari.

Anyone know of any such decks? I was looking at reanimator but seems highly expensive.

Jund.

You can go aggressive with Putrid Leech and Blightnings. Or you can go more controlling with Liliana and play something Rock/Deathcloud ish. I've got a Boom/Bust listing I threw together not too long ago.

Phototoxin

11-29-2011, 07:07 PM

Jund for modern you say... hmm....:laugh:

borz

01-05-2012, 09:12 AM

Hi guys,

I'd like to know if you think that this deck may still have any chance to be competitive.

I'm currently running a list with mystical teachings, firespout and some discard spells, I think it could be consistent even without punishing fire cause discards and counterspells make the MU vs storm/combo easyier. I run also lots of removal in order to handle aggro, affinity, tempo.decks and other decks.

What do you think about it? may teachings be a sobstitute of punishing fire (using a well balanced toolbox)??