Progressive Leagues Wall of Shame Topic

Posted by rooskie on 11/17/2010 3:19:00 PM (view original):ronblood recently did it in XYZ and will go on the beware and forewarned board. He was always late posting keepers and finally didn't even reply to sheller and vanished.

ronblood has been very erratic. hHe admits to lacking discipline, but in my leagues he has been ok recently and has been in contention in most.

Ron's always late but he always gets his stuff in.... I got no beef with the man.

Posted by sheller on 11/20/2010 11:08:00 AM (view original):I'm always a little leery about calling out bad owners because there's always the chance somethings going on we don't know about. For instance, JohnGPF dropped out of a number of progressive leagues, and dropped off the site, without a word. And this wasn't the first time it happened, either - he disappeared for an extended period of time after Hurricane Katrina, too. I don't think anyone would put John on a WIS Hall of Shame. Stuff happens, and what may look like irresponsible behavior to us might be the result of an unavoidable emergency to them.

Having said that, nin311ff should have moved heaven and earth to contact thejuice. Even if it were to tell him "sorry, I signed up for a lot of your teams but I can't do it". The rest of these names - at least the owners I'm familiar with - I can kind of understand, if not necessarily want as league-mates. Nin signed up for 22 teams and then vanished, and this all happened in the space of a couple weeks.

I tend to be leery about calling people out on something like this, too. If we just put people up here who we've had a conflict with or who have ever done something wrong, we'll all be up here at some point.

I understand if people have to drop out for some reason- it happens. But I figure the least you can do is drop the commish a line saying "Sorry, I can't stay...". The three people I listed couldn't even do that for me. They disappeared without telling me. One of them was checking in on his HBD team while not opening my sitemails.

I've had a few owners who've had to disappear suddenly because they'd suffered strokes - the only one who I know of and who's mentioned it on a wis forum is DrKz. Offhand I can think of three other owners who've had at least one keeper/draft period disrupted because of strokes. One of these guys are no longer on the site, the other two are. Whether we like it or not, we're not a young community.

If someone wants to offer a public explanation for their actions (or inactions) that's cool, but I don't expect anyone to share what they may feel is their business.

That doesn't mean anyone gets a pass on not contacting a commissioner as soon as possible. Bilfert's right - the guys with established reputations will be cut more slack. Heck, thanks to tracyr we kept John's RPLY team open for him for about 3 seasons after he left.

Some really great posts guys. All progressive "rookies" should be required to read this thread. They all should be aware of behavior that is frowned upon. You can't do much about medical situations or family emergencies... I'm sure we will all have one before we leave the site... but there are some folks on this site that will make the extra effort, like mensu1954. His electricity goes out in a winter storm... but he somehow gets a message out to league commissioners... those are the kind of guys that get my respect. It all comes down to courtesy... not everyone get's it... and I'm sure they don't outside of WIS either.

I have one example of an owner that I never would have expected to bail without a word... lefty1917. We had played together in Spotsell's Dodgeball leagues and open leagues too. Then I started the FDSS progressive and he was a charter member. About 10 seasons into the progressive, lefty wins the league. Never heard another word from him. No responses to any sitemails... That kind of behavior puzzles me. I know he left the site for a while... then I recently saw lefty post in the forums... like I said, that kind of behavior puzzles me. I wouldn't add him to the list... but I hope that maybe he will read this thread someday and feel a wee bit guilty.

Yeah - mensu1954 is a model of what you hope would happen when an owner can get to the site because of an emergency. I think he posted from a public library or some place like that explaining what happened and that he wasn't going to be able to be on site for a while.

Actually, there are a couple other owners who I never would have thought would ditch out, too. Popular guys who I have no other beef with except they left a number of people in the lurch - ozomatli and ooooohdoggie.

Posted by sheller on 11/21/2010 5:18:00 PM (view original):When is the best time to tell a commissioner you have to bow out?

And even if you miss the "best" deadline - you quit late - you should still let the league know you aren't returning.

As soon as you figure out that you're leaving. As a commisioner in that situation, it'd be nice if the person leaving would either finish the season or helped find a replacement, but depending on the circumstances, I wouldn't necessarily expect someone to do so. But yeah, you've got to at least notify the commish somehow (barring major medical emergency/death).

I'm not exactly one to gripe as a couple of years ago I took a new job and overloaded my schedule. I thought it would allow me more WIS time, but it actually allowed me less. I ended up getting the bump from several leagues -- including one I was running -- because of how little I was able to do on the site. I always had enough time to check my sitemails, but not always enough time to reply to all of them. I felt horrible about it (and still do), and honestly thought I would be able to keep up with all of my league commitments even though it was obvious I couldn't. My teams were also suffering as I didn't have time to keep up with most of them, so I started losing alot with a number of teams and getting poor picks as I was often late in making picks and didn't have the time to research enough to even compile a proxy list, let alone send the list to someone. Getting the boot from my own league was my wake up call and I cut back from 18 leagues to 4... about 4-6 of those leagues I was dropped from by the commissioner before I had the opportunity to resign myself.

For that reason, as well as for the reasons others have mentioned above, I try to be real slow to call someone out, but I do have a handful of names on my list that I'd be cautious about before allowing into one of my leagues (as in, I'd probably sitemail them my expectations and let them know up front that if there is any suspicious behavior that leads me to believe they will do as I've always seen them do, that I will have them removed from the league, even if it's mid-season):

bradsldunn/blues322 - He's done much better since being called out under his bradsldunn name and using his new name of blues322, but I still don't know if the two teams I saw him run under bradsldunn were with malicious intent or if he was just that naive about running a team when he first started in progressives. I took over one team of his in the davkar progressive that had seen him trade away all of the future talent and all of the 1st 3 picks in each of the current draft and the next season's draft (in just the first 2 seasons of the leagues existence). When I got the team, even after drafting 6 players -- and making two quality for quantity trades before the season started -- I only had 532 IP and 3800 PA. It took me 4 seasons of drafting quantity before I got to a respectable 1200/4800 level. The same was true of a team I saw him run to the ground an trade the picks away from for an attempt at one season glory before he left that league, too (I don't remember the name of that league, sorry).

husker75
luvyablue

The two above may be the same person and I haven't been in a league with either of them in awhile. I doubt it's malicious, I think they honestly try to win, maybe... I've defended them a few times in different league forums, but then, I've also had them removed from one of my leagues mid-season by having admin transfer it to me. They usually stick around for 5+ seasons and give good notice before leaving, they just leave every team in shambles. (I was in 4 leagues with them).

I'm going to have to agree with just4me regarding husker75/luvyablue. They usually stick around for a few seasons... but as soon as the team bottoms out... they're gone. Kudos to them for giving plenty of notice... but bottom line is he is not an owner that believes in "rebuilding."

I am going to try to defend husker75/luvyablue. They have both been in a current football progressive for over 6 years(not seasons, years), and luvyablue has been in a current baseball progressive that is just about to start season 12.

Even though he's only disappeared once for me, I know he's disappeared twice completely from WIS. Both times leaving many a Commish hanging!

I second that-he did it to me twice, won't happen a third time

He not only bailed on a league i was in, but a league he was commissioner in! So i took over the league, then a few months later he resurfaces and asks to join one of my other leagues! Talk about nerve?!

Maybe owners should be given a list of expectations. If they're new to progressive leagues it's possible they don't realize their behavior is ******* people off - altho, with someone like nin, I don't know how this is possible.

Anyway, here's the beginning of a list -

Team abandonment - henceforth to be called 'ninning'.
Late resignation - don't wait until the draft starts to tell the commissioner you quit.
Missing deadlines - some deadlines are tighter than we're comfortable with. If you can't meet a deadline, inform the commissioner.
Double dipping - don't play under a 2nd alias unless you're completely aboveboard. Tell the commissioner what's going on, tell the league what's going on, and if they're cool with you're fine. Trust me, it's worse if they find it out later.
Fulfill your obligations - if you've traded away your next 3 1st round picks do NOT quit the league.

I'm a little less concerned about an owner messing up his team (to a point, of course). I assume we're all in this to have fun, and winning isn't the top priority on everyone's list. This one's a real judgment call - if an owner seems to be making sensible trades and draft picks yet doesn't seem to win I don't think it's necessarily cause for alarm.