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Who Dey Revolution Manifesto

Preamble

IN THIS TIME of perpetual Cincinnati Bengals incompetence and futility, with zero playoff wins in the nineteen seasons since the WhoDeyRevolution Godfather, Paul Brown, passed away in 1991 and handed the team to his fortunate son, the Despot, Mike Brown;

Introduction

WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:

Manifesto Demands

THAT the Mike Brown, Katie Blackburn, Marvin Lewis, along with every other member of the Bengals management, staff and personnel, state publicly to all Bengals fans, “I will do everything in my power to help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl;”

THAT Mike Brown will hire a general manager, drastically expand the scouting department and relinquish all control of player personnel;

THAT all training, rehabilitation and medical facilities are considered best-in-class compared to other NFL teams;

THAT the management fill the team only with players who fit the system, both mentally and physically, and are not reluctant to makes changes to player personnel when needed, regardless of cost or loyalty concerns;

THAT offensive and defensive line depth is considered the top priority for all player personnel decisions;

THAT all decisions made by ownership, management, staff and players, both on and off the field, are judged only by this criterion: “Does this help the Cincinnati Bengals win a Super Bowl?”

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April 29, 2011

Guess How Mike Brown is going to screw this one up... Round Two

Since it is pretty obvious the Bengals are going to take a QB rather than be smart and trade for an experienced vetern like a Kolb after the draft or pick one up in free agency which would allow them to go after the top QB prospect that is not even in this year's draft. So if you were sitting in the room what would you do?

Ryan MallettHere is what the pundits say: Mallett is a junior that chose to give up his final season of eligibility for the NFL. Mallett is 6'6 and has an absolute cannon for an arm, and he fits the mold of a true gunslinger: He wants to throw it every time, and will try to throw the football throw anything that gets between him and his receiver. Mallett is a pure pocket passer with great size, but with that comes the lack of ideal mobility. He is not a statue in the pocket, but as he gets older and adds some more weight to his frame, he is going to find it tough to escape the rush within the pocket.

According to scouts the biggest thing holding Mallett back at this point is still his decision making. He has some Brett Favre in him, thinking his arm strength will always prevail. He forces throws into coverage. It results in some amazing throws, but also results in game changing mistakes. At the pro level, the mistakes will out number the big plays because tight spaces are even tighter. There are also some questions about his maturity level, so it may be wise for him to have a veteran to mentor him for a bit before stepping onto the field. Mallett appears to have slipped out of the first round, but he has the talent to become a very good starting QB in the NFL.

To add to this: I was impressed with what I saw from Mallett during the Sugar Bowl game against Ohio State - the only game I saw Mallett play last year. Ohio State was really lucky to win that game and should have sent Arkansas's wide receiving corps several fruit baskets for dropping so many touchdowns balls - especially in the first quarter. Mallett was able to get balls to his receivers even under heavy pressure from OSU's pass rush. He has the rare combination of arm strength and size 6'-6 or 6'-7'( depending on what you read)/ 250+ lbs (larger than Big Ben who is 6'-5"/ 240 lbs). His off-field escapades are the only big question mark. But people said the same thing about Dan Marino and his cocaine habit back in 1984. The other big question is how he will respond to falling to the second round. Will he use this as motivation to prove all of the other 31 teams they were wrong or will he fall apart?

Andy DaltonHere is what the pundits say: TCU’s Andy Dalton may not possess the overall physical tools of other top QB prospects, but his intelligence, leadership, and accuracy definitely stand out. He eased some concerns about his size when he officially hit 6’2/ 215 at the combine, and has continued to win people over with his football IQ and overall intelligence.

Dalton has a good enough arm to make all the throws, shows some surprising mobility within the pocket, and those traits combined with his ability to lead a team has him looking like a second round pick as well. While he will need to adjust to taking snaps from under center, he could be ready to play early in his career because he possesses every intangible you want in a quarterback, and he’s the type of player you can go to battle with every Sunday.

To add to this: I don't know much about the red wonder since I did not watch one TCU game last year - I can't wait for the NCAA to catch that school for violating NCAA rules. My big concern about Dalton is his size. Will he be able to see the field over an OL/DL that is going to be 3-5" higher than he is? Other sites have also questioned his arm strength. Gruden gets a stiffy anytime he sees his red hair.

Other Top Options Still Available:1. DE Bowers - Do you draft Odom's replacement to help solidify the DE spot for years to come?2. LB Justin Houston - At 6'-3" 270 could fill the hole at SLB, but is a prospect.3. SLB Ayens - Proven SLB in college. Can cover but supposedly has a hard time against the run.4. CB Harris - Good cover corner.5. DT Stephen Pea - Noted run stuffer that looks samoan so by default he would be my selection just because he looks samoan. 6. FS Moore - Described as a game changing safety - a big need.

This is a tough question. I know popular demand will say Dalton. I also know that Gruden is in love with Dalton - but we don't even know if we can trust Gruden yet. If I had a gun to my head and had to choose between Mallet or Dalton, I go with Mallett and then immediately hire a councilor to get his head straight.

If it were my call, I think I try to solidify the DL with Bowers who has the ability to defend the run and rush the passer. Matching him up with Atkins and Dunlap on third downs could be scary. I would then follow this up in next years draft with the selection of Luck to get my future franchise QB - since we are going to draft high again next year. If Bowers is off the board, I go with the game changing safety.

Comments

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If Jon Gruden's QB camp is any indication, and I'm sure it isn't, then Mallett is the guy. Once again, I can't believe we're talking about replacing Carson already. This is so fucked.

Also, fuck the NCAA. Their enforcement of rules is arbitrary and mostly just comes down to which school they decide to look at. Every college program that decides it's going to try to be big time inevitably has to do scummy things because of the enormous black market that is created because the kids don't get paid.

I basically look at every pick in the top 3 or 4 rounds as almost having equal chance of becoming a good player. So more picks is better as it presents more opportunity. I'd probably have taken the trade from Atlanta. Will AJ Green be good? Has a better chance than most...but it's not like trading for picks and taking one of the QBs at the 27th spot would have been much worse. Plus, those picks could be used for ammo next year should they want to make a run at Luck (far-fetched idea, I know).

Bien,
I understand their logic in not taking the Atlanta trade. Getting extra picks would have been great, but going from 4 & 35 down to 27, 35, & 59 (plus a low #4 this year and #1 & 4 next year) is a big drop down. The big catch to me in the deal was this year's fourth round pick- it is very rare you get a good prospect late in the fourth round- unless you use it on a FB or kicker. Had the deal included their #3 to give the Bengals #27 and then two #2's, and two #3's (plus their #1 & 4 next year), I would say that would have been asinine to pass up. I guess I look at the top three rounds as valuable and the others as funny money where you are digging for gold or just adding depth to the roster.

Cleveland received all those picks but then had to waste their #3 to move back up to get a DT. So now they are left with two #2's and two #4's. So to me they are really getting only one extra pick of value this year and next year to move all that way down the board.

Had the Bengals made the trade and picked 27th they could have nabbed a good O-Lineman or the WR with similar measurables as AJ Green, but with worse intangibles.

To followup to my post, I have to rethink the Bowers pick. My rule of thumb for drafting that I wish MFB would follow is to stay away from the following red flags:
1. Conditioning issues
2. Health issues
3. Head cases - mental illness or stupidity

Applying those filters, would lead me to go with the safety Moore.

But damn Mallett is such an attractive pick, even if he may be a head case - nothing that hypnotherapy can't fix. I always love guys that get a chip on their shoulder and use their fall in the draft as motivation to prove the teams wrong that passed on them. The guy can read a defense and gun the ball in a tight space like nobody else in the draft. Shit I am starting to sound like MFB...

Should have taken the picks. Teams are built on Rd 3 and 4 picks. This team is a dumpster fire, and a WR won't get it done. This obviously assumes that who they pick will be decent, and with the scouting department the way it is, odds aren't on our side. However, a ton of depth can be had in round 4.

The Patriots have won Super Bowls hording picks. And I seem to remember them winning one when Branch was the best WR they had. You don't have to have the best WR in the league to win a Super Bowl. You need a great defense and the ability to run the ball. AJ Green doesn't help in either regard. MFB is trying to lure Carson back, and trying to fill the stadium up with offense.

I expect the Bungles to want to take Dalton and then get out manuevered for him as every team knows the Bungles want him so somebody will trade with New England to get Dalton. So the Bungles will take Mallet which actually would be a better result. Having watched all these QB's a lot the last couple years Mallet was better than everyone except Cam-Cam. Dalton's arm is very suspect.

I say take Bowers if he is there. You win with a good d-line that can get pressure without blitzing. His talent is worth the risk at this point and for the money you would pay him and if you can get 3-4 years out of him before he breaks down it will have been worth it. Not that I trust to Bengals medical staff to diagnose or treat his condition properly but that is another story that everyone in Bungledom is used to at this point.

I just know that the Bungles keep draft diva positions with their first round picks while the Steelers and Ravens keep drafting bad ass lineman. Hence their continued winning and our multiple decades of losing.

Dano, saying that teams are built in round three and four is why I agree with their logic to not move down in this case. I too agree that teams are built in the third and fourth rounds. However the forth round is more providing quality depth like Kimo, who is overrated as a starter. I also agree you don't need the best WR to win- you need to control the LOS on both sides of the ball. I don't like the Green pick b/c of that reason, but I think moving down to the 5th pick from the end of the first was not the way to go either.

The Browns took the trade and they have no valuable third round picks now because of it. I would like to have the Browns two #2's right now, but I would rather have two #2's and two #3's going into tonight. For the #4 spot and the most coveted WR in the draft, I think that would have been a fair deal and not too much to ask.

There are no WR with measurables anywhere close to Green in this draft that would be available at 27th. Green is a top 5 WR for years, there is no other WR of his caliber in this draft. I wouldn't have minded the trade because the extra picks are always good. But the Bengals got 1 of 4 can't miss players in this draft in my opinion and the only offensive one.

In my opinion we must take a quarterback. I take Mallet for some of the reasons expressed. Size, arm strength, success against the best NCAA competition ets. Isn't he 6'7? And he did impress me against Ohio State. Even if Carson comes back, he is banged up and bungalized. No way after Antonio Bryant we use a second round pick on Bowers. I am also disturbed that there has been published reports of Jordan Palmer starting the season - or noe being presumed the starter. I repeat. I have heard that it has been considered that Jordan Plamer could be one of 32 starters in the NFL on opening day. Jesus. If Dalton or Mallet are there, you have to take him. Also consider the possibility that drafting a successor may actually function to encourage Palmer back for one year. He is the mentor for a season, plays next year - we go 6-10- then gets traded? Its possible.

For Mallett, I think the headcase thing is wrong. I think he's actually kind of a clever, smartass and people just don't know what to do with that. Mallett may have issues, but being a headcase is not one of them in my opinion.

Agree about Mallet. He's more of a cocky punk than a malcontent. Brady is kind of a cocky punk, and Phillip Rivers is a cock and a punk.

You can teach a system and progressions, you can't teach arm strength.

I'm with Bienemy. God damn what happened to that 2005 team. It was just 5 seasons ago. I can remember actually believing they could be the 90's cowboys, telling my friends that and my friends agreed. Piss poor drafting, refusal to fire coaches, sign Free Agents, make trades, and losing games in the most ridiculous ways.

Hope ~ A condition in which Bengals fans long for the 2005 season when they didn't win a playoff game. Or the 1991 season where Bo Jacksons career ended but a wild card game was won. Or the 81&88 seasons which ended with Super Bowl losses.

We do realize we are wishing that we could just be like teams that failed in the end.

Just watching NFL network. Marshall Faulk, Barry Sanders, Shannon Sharpe all discussing their draft experience. Marshall makes the comment that being drafted number three was a relief but then the pressure sets in that you have to deliver.

After that remark Rich Eisen comments that Marshall had told the team with the pick before him not to pick him because he did not want to become a Cincinnati Bengal and that decision showed how tough he was and had to lead to becoming who he is now, a hall of famer.

I guess with the drafting of Dalton we can Officially say goodbye to.............

Jonathan Joseph.

Here's what I think could happen.

Letters to season ticket holders soon talking about the new direction and offense.

AJ Green gets signed in record time. They need him to sell the new offense thing. But more importantly they need him to burn cap space to get to the minimum.

Bengals hover right at the minimum and won't spend anymore money so they can "hold the door open in case Carson comes back". I think they'll not spend money and leave his entire salary available while the payroll is just above the minimum.

That will be the excuse used as to why they can't afford Joseph. They have to leave

space in case Carson comes back.

Then Hobson will start printing stories about Pacman and how there are still first rounders in the secondary.

Next year goes by. Carson sits, Joseph's gone and next year they'll trade or release
Carson. You know this was the plan when Pacman was signed right?

This situation gives MFB the excuse to do what he loves to do best. Not spend money.

@JM but that's the best excuse Mikey needs for why they'll suck in 2011.
We had a new offensive coordinator, new system, new QB, new WR, yada yada yada.
Just pony up for tickets in 2012 when we'll be competitive.

You did the big change scam last time, and your way of doing things made your best player sit at home and never play again rather than continue in your employ.

It's really worse now than ever. I feel like an ass because I can't find one positive thing to say. Every team valued AJ Green. I guess if the Bengals are wrong then every body was wrong. I wish him the best but FUCK! We all know what he's gotten himself into.

I take solace in 1 thing. Only 1. I'm not 40 yet. That means that in my lifetime, Paul Browns retarded child will die before me. And I will see a time when Mike Fucking Brown is not running the Cincinnati Bengals.

Cincinnati is a conservative Midwestern town. I was born near there and left at a young age. Cincinnati needs to grow some balls and here's how.

Most NFL owners dream of that Super Bowl parade. Mike doesn't because he knows his chances of winning a super bowl are about as good as his chances of winning the lottery. Shit. That doesn't work. He has won the lottery already. He inherited an NFL franchise.

Back to point. When this stubborn, greedy, incompetent prick dies, I say Cincinnati gives him that parade. Really, who would shed a tear without the last name Brown?

I'll donate big bucks to have a parade when this bastard croaks, so long as that wizard of OZ song about the wicked witch is dead is blaring.

My only real hope to fix the Bengals is cancer. In Mikes case it won't be testicular. I wouldn't wish cancer on anyone. Except............ MFB.

I spent weeks without checking this site. I'm sure my blood pressure dropped and I drank less. I'm checking out again. This franchise is a voluntary disease.

It was rather nice without you here, in my opinion. Sure, every article didn't have 20+ comments (with 80% of them being your negative tripe), but we only had to worry about wch spamming the comments (with the occasional odd post from hofbraunow). If you drink less and have lower blood pressure, then by all means, I think you should just take a vacation from this site. I don't think it's anyone's intention here to cause harm to the regular viewers/commenters, and rather than being cathartic (which, if I'm not mistaken, is the intention of the site - to provide an outlet for the pain and suffering that we as Bengals fans experience communally), it sounds like WDR is having the opposite effect on you.

You are quite possibly the most negative commenter on this site, and that's saying something for a site that's built at least partially on hatred for a terrible, terrible owner. Perhaps some time away will help remedy that - after all, unless I'm horribly mistaken, this site was created out of a love for the Bengals, something that you seem to have lost. My advice (although I'm certain you probably don't want it) - take a break, try to enjoy some other sport or activity, and when some of the vitriol towards the Bengals has left your system, try coming back and see if you can't keep things on a more even keel. I'm no psychologist, but I can't see how it can be good for you to be so stressed over a website.

-AJ Green was who I wanted the Bengals to take in the first round. I don't care if it's making up for the Simpson and Caldwell picks (which conveniently neglects the fact that the Bengals were able to draft Shipley late in last year's draft), I don't care if it's to lure back the franchise quarterback who shouldn't need lured back - he was the best player on many teams draft boards and the Bengals taking him at 4 was a no-brainer. Detroit drafted how many first-round wide receivers during the Millen years, so by your logic, they shouldn't have taken Megatron either, but that seemed to work out pretty well for them, didn't it?

-Dalton was the quarterback I hope they landed (Peter King's fellating notwithstanding)...seems to be a strong Mallett sentiment here on WDR, but Mallett was the typical Bengals screw-up, "wasted potential" pick, so I'll take the guy who draws Drew Brees comparisons, thanks.

-I know almost nothing about Dontay Moch, but his biggest knock that I found was that he took wide angles as a DE to avoid contact with blockers. If they move him to OLB (as expected), that's going to be a HUGE issue. However, the positives I was able to find (moves well in space and is good moving in reverse, explosive, great ability to change direction, and that ultimately meaningless 4.4 40 time) will hopefully offset that potentially-major negative.

-Hey the Bengals drafted teammates from Georgia again! Hopefully Green/Boling work out better than Pollack/Thurman in 2005. An offensive lineman in the fourth that was projected to go in the third, plus a four-year starter in the SEC? I'm hesitantly impressed with this pick. From everything I've read since the pick was made, the biggest upside I see with Boling is that he's versatile and has potential to be a day 1 starter (though I somewhat doubt it due to this jacked up offseason).

Overall, I'm happy with what the Bengals have done thus far, and I'm of the mindset that trading for extra picks with the scouting department they have is like putting five rounds in a revolver and playing Russian roulette, so I'm glad that they didn't trade down.

Just on the first sentence? Why? Why Kolb? Experienced? four or five league games? Really? Who the fuck was Keving Kolb -- EVER! We rag on picking a 'Ginger' player -- what about a player named "KEVIN"?

Seriously, there were a whole fleet of QB's, (Russell, the entire history (drafted) of the QB's of the Cleveland Browns, Jimmy Clausen etc.) that have and HAD no business being 'knighted' for their alleged skills -- and Kolb is certainly one of them. So why? That is the question.

As to Mallet, the biggest knock on him -- and these aren't my words, these are the words of draft analysts and backroom whispers amongst NFL Player-Personnel people (say that five times real fast?) is NOT that he might throw an errant ball etc., as you have 'pointed' out -- but rather he likes 'erb amongst other things. That's why he fell. With someone like D'Quan Bowers, he fell but at least he fell because of a tangible (football related thing) situation -- his knee. Based SOLELY on that he went from a potential 'first player to be chosen in the draft' to being picked AFTER the first round. Mallet's problem though isn't related to football but shitty life choices apparently.

Asking if you draft Antawn Odom's replacement by picking D'Quan Bowers? Yes he's already been picked at the time I wrote this but again, his big problem is his (I believe: Right) knee. It is apparently worse than it was alleged to be (lying in order to gain a higher place in the draft and more money... ...there's a novel approach). Apparently he could only conceal it for so long. However, we DO know that his integrity can be brought into question as it is certain that HE KNOWS how bad it is. That being said, if I remember correctly, Anthony Munoz had knee problems coming out of USC and was a MAJOR risk. It paid off and he ended up with troubles slightly NORTH of his legs (shoulder) but became (and I won't argue this) the best left-side OT to ever play the game (though he has to be surpassed by someone at some point -- it is inevitable -- just like Lawrence Taylor will be, just like Tony Dorsett was etc.). The only comparison I am making between Bowers and Munoz IS that he and Munoz both had knee injuries (so I don't want to hear someone saying: "You can't compare the two etc. as I am SOLELY talking about the similarity with their college injuries (i.e., KNEE INJURY) -- nothing else!).

But the reason this site was started is stated clearly in the Manifesto.

"WE, the members of the Who Dey Revolution, in our fervent dedication to the Cincinnati Bengals and fanatical desire to transform our hometown team into perpetual Super Bowl contenders, call for a popular revolution of fans to demand comprehensive reform to the managerial decisions and approach of Cincinnati Bengals ownership, management, staff and players, and hereby call for the adoption of the following Who Dey Revolution Manifesto:"

I would like to say positive things. But they're aren't any. Rookie Coordinator, rookie quarterback, rookie or second year core of receivers. They have now conceded that the change promised in 2005 failed and that they're staring over again. They have changed nothing in the front office. Can anyone buy this again?

I can't. Give me something good. I agree I'm one of if not the most negative posters on this blog. But that's because it never gets better.

I'm glad you wanted Dalton. Just recall the last quarterback mike took high was prototypical in every way and came from a big program...... and he quit. Give me one positive and I'll agree with you. I just can't see any.

What about the "commitment to running the ball"? Drafting players to get to a smashmouth style? Then switching to and writing letters to season ticket holders touting the exciting new west coast system. Do you see any direction there?

What about bringing Marvin back and claiming it was due to continuity? Then replacing your top offensive coach with a guy who has never had that position before in the NFL, and drafting high round rookies at your top two skill positions.

Explain how any of that is positive rather than negative. Shipley? Is a slot receiver. They're replacing outside receivers with Green. What's Shipley got to do with the fact that in 3 seasons Simpson and Caldwell are disappointments rather than battle ready veterans.

I'm negative, but explain to me how I'm wrong.

I've followed this team as fervently as anyone here. Give me something good?

@JM the only thing anybody can give you good is the same old same old, like if you go back and read Bengals blogs in 2000 or 1997 or any other year where they drafted some guys who Kiper rated a so-and-so and some other scout rated a such-a-such... but the end result is suck. Bank on it. Mikey does.

"Bad organizations make bad draft-day decisions. The Bengals are a bad organization. And they made yet another bad draft-day decision. First-round wide receivers have an incredibly high rate of failure in the NFL. And the team has already tried and failed to win under the mistaken assumption that teams are built around wide receivers. Green is a great talent and could become a big-time NFL wideout. Regardless, the Bengals would have been better served with a stud interior lineman or pass rusher to shore up a defense that ranked 21st against the run (4.43 YPA) and 24th at rushing the passer (sack or INT on 7.95 percent of dropbacks)."

Hey man. I want change. I want to be excited. Point something out to me. Some other point of view that I'm not seeing because it's infuriating that we're rebuilding again.

Tell me something good.

We were told things were changing in 03. By what we saw on the field we believed it in 05. Now we're back in 03 with a coach we KNOW can't get the job done and no major changes to the front office.

AJ Green is a stud. The 3rd rounder is an athletic freak, and the fourth rounder could start as a rookie and play for 10 years. Good players. I don't believe believe the BENGALS can coach Dalton up. That's not a knock on Dalton or his skills which many experts believed in. I'm not questioning his skills. I'm questioning the bengals skills in coaching up a quarterback. There is a definite negative track record.

It is a good draft. Picks 1-4 were solid value, graded and selected properly. I am impressed. That guard is going to start, and I'm ecstatic about that.

This draft is a direct result of a blunder 2 seasons ago. Brat should have been canned after the 08 season. They didn't. They regressed. The quarterback got burnt out and quit.

Now we have a rookie second rounder throwing to a really young group of receivers, behind a spotty offensive line, under a coordinator who has no experience calling plays in the NFL.

If you think that's negative you are right. However its 100% the truth. The truth is negative. Again if I'm seeing it wrong please let me know. I've given the new quarterback, young receiver thing a chance already. That garbage got taken out no later than 07.

Muñoz's number isn't actually retired either. The Bengals only have one retired number, 54 (Bob Johnson's number, the first ever draft pick by the Bengals). The Bengals don't do the number retiring thing.

Now there's an interesting factoid about the Bengals...they don't retire jerseys? I'm just wondering why the hell not.
But then again, of course one could wonder why the hell they (front office mainly) do any of the stuff they do.

I was going to attribute it to Mike Brown's view of double digit numbers as being scarce (lol),
but I'd say it's definitely no irony, that the only number that *was* retired, did *not* happen under the current Mike Brown regime.

I wonder if they'll ever enlighten us (as to why)? Throw that in the 'Who Dey Perspective' why don't they?

Did JM commit suicide yet? I've never seen a more miserable set of nonsensical ramblings over the last 2-3 posts here. Take a step back from the ledge, buddy. Good draft--anywhere from 2-4 Opening Day starters in 2011.

Dalton? You count that as a good thing? 2nd round QB as day one starter? Plus, we have no idea how much time we will get to learn this new system before the season starts, which, oh by the way, is a new system for the whole offense. Realistically, this is about as big a negative as you can have. A good pick, but terrible for opening day 2011. This is not Sam Bradford.

Moch? Are you saying he would start at LB? Where he doesn't have much experience? And again, with a limited/shortened/non-existent offseason.

Could you even count that as 2 starters from the first three rounds? You're counting guys from the 4th round on as starters? Where teams are typically just adding depth? Boling is a solid pickup, and who knows, maybe he will compete for a starting position if he ever gets a chance during the offseason.

When it comes to being a fan of this team, there is nothing more deadly than optimism.

As I wrote in my previous post, this was clearly a rebuilding draft for the Bengals, but I don't agree with methodology. I don't think this was a good draft by any means.

A WR takes about a year to develop (Simpson did it almost four seasons, and he is still a big question mark since he has to learn a new offensive system). Green may turn out to be a good pick- only time will tell with him - but he will have a rough 2011.

A solid QB takes a year or two to develop. Carson took two years - one on the bench behind Kitna and then one as a starter. 2005 was his break out season after taking some lumps as a starter in 2004. But Palmer developed behind an OL that was finally becoming a solid unit after being built by a number of successful drafts prior to Palmer's arrival.

Dalton is going to come in to an OL with nothing but big question marks - except for two spots: C & LT. Our RT may or may not show up in shape. The RG is approaching his final year of a contract and is beyond is prime and it remains to be seen if he has enough in the tank to make it through his last season. We do not even have a LG on our present roster... Boling was supposedly drafted to play behind Bobbie Williams.

SLB was a need, but they drafted a project who may be able to start day one, but that is a huge if... So we still don't have a starting SLB on the roster unless last year's pick, Muckelroy, is moved to a position he has never played before.

OG was a need. But do you get a Steinbach level of quality that is so desperately needed in the 4th round? As noted above, he was supposedly drafted to be Williams replacement in 2012. It's great that they are looking ahead, but meanwhile they are missing the huge hole at LG that we have never been able to fill since Steinbach left.

At this point, Dalton will be better off in the long run if the 2011 season is never played...

2-4 starters... at some point was what I think was being insinuated. And I agree. What blows me away is that so many of the regulars on this site stated how good the O line was last year... which I don't agree with. Boling was my favourite pick of this draft; he was a steal! Dalton and Green were exactly how it the first to needed to shake out. Moch was a surprise, but I researched his playing, and I'm really happy with that pick too.

I'm with Wyatt, good draft overall. Not great, but pretty good. I challenge anyone to pick different and come out better.

What's going to really be the test is to see what MFB has pre-packaged for free agency... That will be the real mark of what The Bengals can do this year, not this draft.

Green, Dalton (whether you view it "as a good thing" or not), Boling and Sands. Green and Boling are the most likely to be day one starters with Dalton next. Sands has a shot to be a starter because Reggie Nelson is the only legitimate Safety they have on the roster today. Crocker is signed but he's 74 years old and is coming off of a torn knee. Saying that the Bengals had a good draft wasn't blind optimism, it was an accurate observation.