Better intro than the last vol. M&K can nail it on her return or completely fuck it up, remember that. I think the background art got better. It's a wait and see to find out if this volume will fix the problems volumes 4-5 brought. I do have hope though.

So did I. I missed a bit of oomph regarding the camera work and sound design, but as long as I get my schlocky action I'm satisfied, and so far I am.

I don't really give a damn about the plot at all, but them going with the "reee adam is angsty" shit again kinda annoys me. I hope either he or torchwick/neo are redeemed if they're bringing them back.

Here we go. Tried to use the fancy link but it just keeps crashing. Webms are a little hard to see quality wise.

> First second, stock wind sound effect that doesn't fit the area and how strong we see the wind blowing.

> Hey look, the train is actually armored with guns on top.

> Did that Grim just fucking vanish in that grenade smoke?

> Pretty sure one of those grenade shots just went into the mountain and hit nothing. I keep wanting to say the camera is too close like in western action shows, but sometimes it's pulled back and it's fine.

> Fight was a little nonsensical, but alright. In fact the intro made a better preview than the actual preview. Shame the Adam scene kinda ruined it. A little too melodramatic.

[Stuff we saw in the preview. Despite what that guy in the vid said prior, I like this scene. It is totally damage control, but it's kinda like candy. Not filling but fun.]

> Is it just me, or does the score and faces kinda feel like a Pixar or Dreamworks film. Also, how can they time shit to the music in comedy scenes- and not the action like Monty did?

> Clever fake out hug-kiss.

> Hey look, Sun's admitting he's not done jack for his team.

> With how this has all gone, they could have had the fight from the intro here instead. Though I get the point of an action-y intro. Maybe have Grimm attack the station, then save more unique shit for a train-top fight? Unless we've done another flashforward and they didn't tell us. Fuck

> Nice totally battle ready poses by Dudley and Dee.

> Why the fuck would it be the on-board Huntsmens job to turn on the armor and cannons? Why not let the conductor know or apply some sensors so he can in case the Huntsmen dies before he can toggle the buttons himself? In fact, what if he lost his scroll?

> Really don't like the new explosion effects. Too cartoony around other realistic effects like snow and trees. Also they kinda lack punch. Same with the fireballs.

> Shame one of the duo is dead- and no he can't come back because even if he survived he'd be several days walk behind RWBY- prior to the tunnel by a LONG way. And that arm should be MUCH more fucked up that it was.

> The way Qrow speaks sounds like Grim commonly attack turrets. If that's the case- why put the turrets on passenger cars? I get it's cost (lugging passenger cars with guns vs. lugging passenger cars and turret cars), but if it's as common an issue as Qrow acts like it is, why has it not been solved? Even I'm iffy on this complaint, since there is no real solution. Can't have a train ride in front to shoot them down since they'd be attracted to the mass of people rather than a handful of huntsmen

> "They might lose track of us". In a tunnel. And on railroad tracks. Most animals can work out where humans regularly go- Grim sure as hell could. Then again, Grim have been shown to be outright blind without a human attacking them or (presumably) having some negative emotion even when fighting them. But then that'd mean robots are better since they wouldn't pay attention to them at all if they're not being attacked and if they hit hard and fast- oh forget it.

> No really- what value did Ozpin have to keep quiet? It'd come up in casual conversation as they were preparing for the journey. Literally every step outside of Mistral. And that sulky look from the rest of RWBY could not have been worse if they'd had added a womp womp sound effect.

> At least there's a vaguely logical reason to split-up outside of being separated by battle. Not to mention it does open up potential for story-lines with JNR being in Atlas for more time.

> The vocal song started a little rough, but got better once those horns kick in. Every time I want to say all their songs sound the same, they get really good

> Actually, even though it's slower, I like this fight.

> Oh god I hate grandma's voice.

> And the new intro shows the up close transformations of the weapons… And how they cheat with all the clipping. Not sure if they follow the season 1 transformations or these are the new models from the abandonment of MMD, but it looks bad.

> Despite that, it's OK overall. Sometimes backgrounds are plain, characters are too still, or that one smoke effect that's too realistic, but it seems OK. I do think it spoils a LOT of what the plot will be this season though.

< Grandma knows about the silver eyes.

< Qrow is gonna have a crisis of confidence and/or sink deeper into booze.

< The gang are gonna have to go through a cave/mine to get to Atlas. It'll have a Grim(s) with many tentacles.

< We're gonna learn more about Ozpin's past. Possibly his old "team" (most likely the inspiration for the 4-man groups in the academies).

< Ozpin is gonna know/do something that pisses off Jaune. This does show they must get back in communication for such a scene to happen, meaning the final episode could be bitter-sweet.

< Jaune: "Glad you survived the trip here." [Horrible Secret] "I've totally quit this adventure and won't come back to help next season for drama.

< Adam and possibly Neo are gonna show up for fights.

Overall, not bad. A lot of fixes were just to keep critics quiet, and I'm concerned that'll be their approach instead of learning. I just hope they don't keep fixing the problems a season later and understand how to build the world first.

>I just hope they don't keep fixing the problems a season later and understand how to build the world first.

From what I know little about world building it's probably best to leave it out and learn how things work, like culture and shit like that.

Besides all the plain nothingness, I was hoping they'll have a landmark or two like a remnants of a forgotten warwhere Grimm lurks around the trotted fields, an old tower or possibly anything that stands out.

One thing that really bugged me about Qrow's scythe was that there's rarely any visual impact. Like, we see him swinging the scythe and the Grimm reacting to it, but the actual impact isn't clearly shown or even made audible. It kind of gives the impression of cheap kung fu movies where the camera is behind the mook getting punched in the face, where you see the good guy punching the mook and the mook reacting to it, but not the punch itself.

> Fighting choreography has improved, but the fights still don't have that je ne sais quoi that Monty's fights had. Really, the fights lack the art and rhythm that Monty, Shane, or Dillon put into them. I understand: you can't create art by committee, and can't pivot a commercial product on one or a few artists.

> Ruby keeps doing her telelport thing for even trivial reasons.

> Ruby carries Weiss in the teleport thing.

> Dudley should have neary ripped off that arm. At that speed, even a brick wall is a meat cleaver.

Glad I was wrong about the train being armed & armoured but that's where the pleasant surprises ended.

>They open with a callback to V3C1 moment. Ruby, who specializes in fighting groups of Grimm, gets distracted after shooting down 1 Grimm so Weiss can save her from a Grimm attacking from the rear. This time it's to set up a moment that happens later on in the scene that doesn't work. Please stop pandering RT, it's not cute.

>And can they stop yelling HYAA! every time they do something?

>Can Nora just fall of the train right now?

>They had to sell Nora smashing that Grimm with camera angles and FX to avoid animating it. And no, she still didn't pull the trigger on her hammer.

>The design of these Grimm doesn't really convey threat. The Manticore look like dogs in Halloween costumes especially with those big ridiculous spiked-collars. The Chimera are designed more effectively. Remember when they told us Grimm got smarter, stronger and more spikey the longer they existed?

>What's the purpose of designing bigger, nastier and more dangerous Grimm if they're going to be so easy to take down.

>Ruby's turn to now save Weiss. How do you save someone from falling who literally can't fall? They've had this problem since V1 where, for the sake of a joke or a cute moment, a character will just forget everything they're capable of doing.

>There was no need to even mention Adam this chapter especially not with a scene like this. They keep this up and he'll be describing himself as a virgin with rage.

>Why does there need to be an "official story" for what happened at Haven? The place was deserted and the only Mistrali present, outside law enforcement, was Leo. If maintaining the goodwill of the public is a priority why not just a cover story for his death and nix the story about the "plot to destroy the CCT tower"? Why bother telling the public anything at all? Just tell the students their headmaster went on sabbatical or retired or something. It'd be harder to gripe about this if the attack was general knowledge and was in the news. But it's not and wasn't.

>No mention of the Mistral Council in Qrow's voice-over.

>To restate from the last thread: There can't be a train to Vale (it's on a different continent) and Shion was destroyed months ago.

>If everyone has scrolls, shouldn't ticket buying be different?

>Almost disappointed there are no advertisements in the station. At least travel & shop specific ads if nothing else. Even the stadium in V3 had posters up advertising food and other things.

>Gonna say Ruby's an asshole again. We saw the previous shot, there's no one around Qrow. He's standing in a big empty space with at least a dozen meters between him and anyone else. He could litterally take out his scythe and perform a kata without the danger of hitting another person in that station. So how did Ruby contrive to run into him?

>No signs on trash or recycling cans, no signs indicating exits, the way to the ticket booth, or the tracks. Signage in the environment would have helped it feel less empty. And it did feel oddly empty when you're eyes roam away from the foreground.

>Also there are no vidscreens showing news or ads like you would expect. And using the news to simply mention that Grimm encounters increased these last 2 weeks would cover a problem that comes up later.

>After not using it since V4, including in combat where she needed to, Ruby uses her semblance indoors to cross a room full of people. That semblance also has no physical affect on anything despite her speed and proximity except to move the leaves of a plant.

>Funny how despite Nora literally throwing herself between Ruby and Yang neither one of them actually talk to her at any point in this scene.

>Don't get the point of Weiss wearing her scarf here especially with all the animation errors it's causing.

>Ozpin's lost the aloofness of earlier volumes to make cracks about Grimm fodder. He's millenia old, why would Dee & Dudley even be worth noticing? Really hope after he blundered them into that ambush at Haven that RWBY & JNPR made him tell them everything.

>Goodbye to the writer's pet character, Ilia. What effect could the Faunus saving Haven have on the Mistrali opinion of them? How bad could public opinion of have been if Leo Lionheart was headmaster of Haven? The Fall of Beacon apparently did nothing to public opinion of Faunus despite the White Fang being involved. Was there some widespread anti-Faunus feeling in Mistral that the writers forgot to tell us about. No, one bar sign out in the boonies doesn't count.

>But Ghira started the White Fang and it failed. It was usurped by someone who was smarter and had more ambition. Why would you have faith in whatever new movement he may start?

>How are Sun & his team travelling to Vacuo when the new semesters were supposed to be starting up at the Huntsmen Academies? Haven Academy wasn't destroyed and didn't loose any students.

>What bothers most about RWBY in the train cabin is them not talking about anything plot relevant. We'll see if it stays like this throughout the

>Yang/Blake drama is passé. Blake left for an important reason, 2 reasons actually. If Adam was going to make good on his threat then her parents were targets and only she was in condition to deal with it when she left. There are no apologies to be made here. This scene is just shipping fuel and feelz. And that they had to contrive that Yang's Scroll would be in her bag instead of on her person is sad.

>Nice of Qrow to remind us he's a drunk and a screw up. Also sad they had to use a cocktail glass asset from the V4 charity function.

>Now we come to what I was afraid they'd do with these hunters. They've made them completely responsible for the security of the train and also thoroughly incompetent. Charge the giant winged-Grimm with my electric stick is not a rational strategy.

>The turrets keep appearing & disappearing.

>Return of the "hero shot"

>Why ask Ruby what the plan is when the veteran "professional Huntsman" is standing right there? And why is Qrow in the rear? I forgot nobody actually listens to Qrow (e.g., Ruby & Jaune) in combat situations. The show really does seem to have made Qrow into a joke since V4C7.

>And now I'm noticing this is a single track rail line. That creates problems with the departure times listed earlier. No, I'm not a railfan and have no idea why you would even think such a thing.

>This is probably the dumbest moment in this chapter. Train security should be in the hands of the conductor and his crew not some hiree Huntsman. And it would've been simpler to have the windows covered with one solid piece of armor so the scared passengers can't see whatever threat is out there and get themselves more frantic.

>They set up the problem of the turrets wrong. The first thing they do when activated is take out 4 Grimm in 1 second. Their effectiveness should largely free up the heroes to focus on the lead Grimm. But somehow the people panicking in the train is less of a draw for the Grimm than the turrets. We're also on video game rules where the enemies keep spawning until you reach a certain point. The turrets should be an invaluable asset in this situation. Nobody ever noticed turrets were a problem before this?

>They really can't decide how may turrets or train cars are between Qrow & Dudley, can they?

>Somebody just push Nora off the train, please.

>Oscar gets to do a hero run, really? This argument with Dudley & Oscar is silly, given what they'll tell us later.

>They chickened out on the injury. Miles & Kerry are very inconsistent when it comes to violence in the show. Last volume Vernal got impaled onscreen but Leo's death was offscreen. At the very least Dudley's arm should have been bent in an unnatural way.

>Qrow decides his hostility is a good thing to add to an already volatile situation.

>Those deep soulful eyes, the feelz.

>Unless Ruby can stick her head out of that window there is no way she saw the Grimm following the train into the tunnel.

>Why are these people not in their cabins? Where is this train's crew?

>Why is Qrow even here? He should have just put seen them off at the station that way he wouldn't look as useless as he does in these scenes.

>If Grimm are attracted to the relic, what's happened these 2 weeks since it came out of the vault?

>Yes, Ruby, that's why knowing that the relic is a dinner bell for Grimm would have been nice to know before you got on a train.

>What draws more Grimm? Scared passengers, turrets, or the relic?

>Blake troubled by visions of Adam now? 3 volumes later? And without his mask?

>If the Grimm are drawn to the relic why is Oscar only having to fight off one. And why isn't the boss Grimm trying to get to him?

>And they're back to yelling Hyaa! again.

>How did the tail of that Grimm not bite Qrow but just knock him back instead? It has a mouth on it right? And then he gets dropped by a fireball of the kind that Ruby's been blocking all this time with no trouble. Qrow gets no respect.

>That ice skating motion for Weiss is klunky and needs to be eliminated.

>They can't decide if Qrow or Weiss is closer.

>This plan to hold the Grimm down may have worked if they'd pinned its wings to it's side. There really is no way Blake or Yang are heavy enough to keep him from taking flight.

I hate Hyaa-Weiss! But now it should be apparent why that earlier moment where she nearly fell off the train was bullshit.

>And much like V5C2, the finishing move causes the enemy to release a blast that in turn makes the vehicle crash or derail in this case.

>Why does there need to be an "official story" for what happened at Haven?

I think they meant not telling people about the relics or Salem's crew. And covering up Leo helps keep faith in the academies and Huntsmen. But your other points in that sentence (and your posts overall) still stand.

> Funny how despite Nora literally throwing herself between Ruby and Yang neither one of them actually talk to her at any point in this scene.

It's a common complaint of the show- if it's not on screen it doesn't exist. It happens in fight scenes (even during Monty's reign to an extent) and especially in dialogue. It feels like a sitcom where- no matter how large the group- everyone focuses on one person talking. The convo between RWBY could be happening while we have JNR in the background talking about something. Then we focus on Nora talking about the beach, we have RWBY having some unheard background conversation. By not showing the people talking in smaller groups, dipping in and out of the other groups conversations, and those groups shifting and changing- it makes it less connected. Obvsiously there are scenes where everyone should be talking about the same thing in one big group (lamenting over Dee and Dudley, )

> Also sad they had to use a cocktail glass asset from the V4 charity function.

It's a fancy glass for a fancy drink, I'm not gonna complain about asset reuse like that. I am gonna bitch about having a glass that shape on a train that can rattle and shake around. It's not like a luxury train like the Orient Express (where they'd do shit like have the waiters wear pure white to show they would not spill anything and the ride was smooth). In fact, in the rare times trains do sell alcohol, it's usually in a cheap plastic cup and a can. Although I guess the focus of the scene is to remind us he's a drunk if they're gonna focus on that this season like the opening implies.

> At the very least Dudley's arm should have been bent in an unnatural way.

While the rules of Aura are inconsistent, I can see it reducing the impact just enough to still cause the arm bone to break, maybe tear some muscle, but for nothing to rupture the skin or have the break be so major as it can be observed/misshapen. But, it makes aura look super powerful. Compare the strongest hits people have suffered and walked away from (explosions, gunshots, swipes and slashes from monsters as big as dinosaurs) but this is the one that did the most damage.

>They keep this up and he'll be describing himself as a virgin with rage.

You can't tell me that with how manipulative he was with Blake that he wasn't tapping that.

>Why does there need to be an "official story" for what happened at Haven?

You need to explain the extreme police response. Rumors are bad, and if you even look like you are hiding something, they swirl out of control. So, they chose little lies covered up by a big truth.

>No signs on trash or recycling cans, no signs indicating exits, the way to the ticket booth, or the tracks.

Was the last thread where someone posted the FF XV critique video where the youtuber says that it's really the little details that create a world? I'm glad I watch the shitty WEBM that kind anons post here: I can' see most of the shit that drives people batty, like them misspelling Branwen.

> He's millenia old, why would Dee & Dudley even be worth noticing?

They missed a good character moment here. Ozpin could have recognized one of them as a former student and remarked about how wrong he was about him. Or how the other had such a negative influence on him. Instead, we get a character-breaking "I hope he wasn't from Beacon."

I was a little offended when he didn't comment about losing said drink.

> Why would you have faith in whatever new movement he may start?

Just restating it for effect.

> They've made them completely responsible for the security of the train and also thoroughly incompetent.

I'm going to defend this: Dee and Dudley are basically mall cops. They are security theater. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this was a relatively safe line. That said, your follow up about how the conductor should be in charge of defense deployment is perfectly valid.

>If Grimm are attracted to the relic, what's happened these 2 weeks since it came out of the vault?

Again, going out on a limb and using my own creativity to fill in for bad writing: nothing happened because the vault had no effect on the relic. Mistral protected the relic from it's negative effects, and those effects aren't so negative as to have destroyed Mistral. This is consistent with them needing to protect the passengers: the godly artifact is not so godly that the train route was flooded with grimm, it just drew a grimm that normally would have stayed away.

>You need to explain the extreme police response. Rumors are bad, and if you even look like you are hiding something, they swirl out of control. So, they chose little lies covered up by a big truth.

From the way both of you responded I see that I worded that question wrongly. What I meant to ask was, why the Council's "official story" needed to be so close to a description of actual events? Given the state of things in the Kingdom of Mistral, as Leo laid out in V5C1, letting word get out that their had even been an attack in the heart of the capital and that it had claimed the life of the headmaster seems like a poor choice. With the way the events of V5 unfolded it seems like the Mistral Council would just keep mum about the whole thing. The general population seemed unaware that anything was going on at all. Seeing to the quick deportation of all those Faunus from Menagerie and facilitating RWBY & JN_R in their travels would also help keep things quiet. People tend to believe authority and maintaining the peace such as it is would be top priority. So rumours or not the choice just seems strange.

I don't know if I'll ever understand how they could put to personalities like Ruby & Nora on the same team and not play them off each other. But I can't go down that road or else this post will get really long and I've already made overly long posts.

Though I'm always going to ding them for sour characterization notes like in the V6C2 preview. Why the hell is "adventure girl" complaining about the train crash? I understand Yang being upset at Ozpin but the general whining seems out of character.

>Although I guess the focus of the scene is to remind us he's a drunk if they're gonna focus on that this season like the opening implies.

Given his role last volume I can only hope that he's separated from RWBY fairly quickly. Limiting his screen time will preserve whatever remains of his "coolness" if anything.

>Compare the strongest hits people have suffered and walked away from (explosions, gunshots, swipes and slashes from monsters as big as dinosaurs) but this is the one that did the most damage.

By the same token it can be argued that none of those blows left their recipients howling in pain and cowering in the corner. We can't go by Yang since her semblance works with strong hits, at least the hits she sees coming.

Also kind of strange Dudley didn't seem concerned about losing his weapon? That should be a big deal to a Huntsman.

>You can't tell me that with how manipulative he was with Blake that he wasn't tapping that.

Best advertisement for not getting involved with Blake I've ever seen.

>I'm going to defend this: Dee and Dudley are basically mall cops. They are security theater.

But given what Huntsmen are and the position they occupy in Remnant I'd argue that they should never be the case. Not that their can't be greater or lesser skilled Huntsmen or even thoroughly corrupt ones but it really isn't the kind of field that you can fail upward in. Especially when the consequences of those failures is death of yourself and a whole lot of other people. Unless there's a Huntsmen officer corps we don't know about. Can Huntsmen licenses be purchased? Are rich & connected families getting them for status? Do kingdoms employ Huntsmen killing squads in case of emergency?

>nothing happened because the vault had no effect on the relic.

We'll see what Ozpin says next chapter but with all the magic involved I'd say there's only a slim possibility of that being the case.

So, they watched Star Wars and Coco too many times, and then made a character? I don't mind the Mexican old lady, but I do mind how heavy-handed it is. She doesn't quite fit the setting.

God, I hope they don't go down the Atlas is fascist America route and have some sort of "oppressed" Mexican stand-in group. Because what we really need is another poorly executed oppression subplot. Remember, Texas, you didn't steal that land from Mexico, you stole it from the Plains Indians that the Mexicans were terrified of.

Like a battered housewife, I came to watch the start of V6. I dare say it's an improvement over the last 2 volumes. Not by much. The action is still subdued compared to the Monty era. Adam should just be mercy killed since his character and badassery have been grounded into mush. It's enjoyable if you lower your standards to the bare minimum.

I also edited the rooster_ripper.py to have the videos convert to mkv instead of mp4 (as easy as changing .mp4 to .mkv in notepad, cause ffmpeg will do the rest). Doing all of this, I can get what I assume is the highest quality available for download.

> On closer examination of the intro, it should have been obvious it was Cinder from the shape of the blade.

> I hope this is Grim arm or Salem's powers. Because if not it's a hell of a Deus ex Machina. Also, why tell us now, and not as a flashback after RWBY and co see her? I know some people hate flash-back episodes, but imagine if we had a reveal of Salem at the end of an episode, then the next was all the Salem content from now until then?

> And flash-back again I know I just asked for a flashback, but the timeline ping-ponged last episode as well. Do it as much as you can in one go. And joking about how they fucked up with the house last season.

> Size changing bullshit. Why not make it small enough to fit on a key-ring or necklace?

> I do wonder if each relic will be based on a powerful relic from fairy tales. The Genie's Lamp, Excalibur, The Golden Fleece, a needle that causes sleep who knows. Hell, it doesn't even have to be a powerful relic, but something of great important. An apple related to poison or death for example.

> How heavy is the snow-fall to get the bike covered in snow like that? I get a bunch of snow was tossed around, but it'd be a hell of a situation to get the bike to land upright and snow to then land on top of it.

> Everything about that 25 year old Grandma voice.

> Ozpin's excuse makes sense, but being who they're up against- learning to control emotions is gonna be better than lying and hoping they don't come about. Hell, you know what would have solved it? A pep talk.

< Yes this attracts Grim, but I have faith in all of you. I know you all would have passed with flying colors if you graduated. In fact, Qrow, do something to give them all official licenses.

> I think I hate it more for the fact they're doing it to combat critique. It makes the characters even more sporadic as to why they didn't probe for more questions before on many matters, and they don't demand many more answers now.

> And I actually agree with Ozpin's logic on why he kept the secret. Less so the "don't judge on one lapse in judgement" bit. There's a way it could have been said without invalidating Ozpin's role as "wise old man who is always right". Make the forgiveness a footnote and turning him into a martyr to inspire others and not cause more misery/grim attacks to the forefront.

> And I really like that twist about Leo not being "the first". The synchronized cape whip was a little off putting, but it surprised me. Actually wish they kept the double-voice overlay for highly emotional moments.

> God damn I'm gonna get shat on for this, but they've handled Ozpin excellently. Having him have many traitors/failed allies in the past would be the perfect reason to not explain everything and compartmentalize. Or am I in a minority here?

> Oh wow it really is a genie. Or Oracle I guess. Hoping they wouldn't wish on it by just telling them it was out of juice was kinda dumb tho. Just say it's a key or a guide or lie.

> WAIFU SUMMONS! Fuck yeah!

> Making it not a genie was actually smart though. Stops them wishing out of problems, or Ozpin having used the wishes earlier. In fact, saying she can't predict the future stops potential plot holes as well. True with enough omnipotence and the right question you can still manipulate events for at least one generation/100 years. Depends when Ozpin made that wish.

> God the brown-haired girl is cute. Maybe it's the crotchless slacks that are doing it for me.

> Not even a pat-down? Really?

> Huh, Little Miss Tuffet. Clever, I like it.

> Putting it up-sidedown does not hide it was another graphical engine.

> Why is Grandma here plot-wise?

> Love Yang's fist clench when Ozpin says Ruby.

> Same vision, but each sees it isolated. Very interesting. I like it a lot.

> SALEM IS RAPUNZEL AND THE EVIL WITCH?! I mean princesses in towers is not just restricted to that but fucking hell that was a surprise.

> Where the fuck is this cave and non-snowy forest, lol

I hate to say it, if this was episode one of the new series, I'd be singing it's praises (not having a fight in episode 1 aside).

One of the biggest points we all miss about RWBY is that some other shows do just as bad in terms of plot-holes, pacing, characterization, etc. But we may not notice is because we're entertained. With entertainment, we don't nitpick. We shove snacks in our mouth and enjoy the show- whether it be intellectually stimulating or kick ass low-brow fun. In fact, a lot of stuff I complained about here is not a big deal, it didn't stop my enjoyment of this episode, and it wouldn't had made it more entertaining if it was "fixed" for me.

This was the first time I was entertained by RWBY in a long time. Lets hope they keep it up.

I also should have mentioned that the mkv/mp4 thing is probably unnecessary, and as far as I know, it shouldn't change the quality at all, since they're just containers for everything, but I wanted to add that in there as another option. I prefer my things in mkv, since it's the superior format, but mp4 is more universally adopted, so some people may prefer or require that. I don't believe it should change anything substantially, but I also don't know the ins and outs of video containers, so I could be missing something. In the end, I just err on the side of caution and use mkv when I can. I just checked to be sure though, and I see no difference in quality.

I'm not too sure how you're using the m3u8. If you mean you're somehow watching it in VLC or so, then it's still going to have to download the video either way. The m3u8 just points to the video, but the video is still hosted elsewhere. So, it could be lagging for at least two reasons. One being that you're not downloading fast enough, and the other being that your computer can't play back the video fast enough. I'm going to assume it's probably your internet connection. If you do the thing I was talking about with RoosterRipper, then it should download as fast or as slow as you need it to. It will just end up as a file on your computer, and you can watch it that way. It downloads to your desktop by default.

>Thanks to the writers for finally revealing where the characters are and where they're going to. Remnant's a big world, it's nice to have some certainty.

>Exactly what role could Ozpin have had in the Lionheart "official story"? Isn't that the province of the Mistral Council? Do others on the Mistral Council know his reincarnation secret?

>"…deserved better than the truth." Cribbing lines from The Dark Knight makes this scene more awkward not less. There was context for how Harvey Dent was viewed by society in that story which does not exist for Lionheart in this one.

>One lapse in judgement?! Ozpin has a funny way of talking about years of betrayal culminating in mass murder. But then he's not talking about Lionheart at all he's justifying himself and his own culpability. His blindness to Lionheart's failings ultimately make him responsible for all this since M&K revealed that Ozpin used his connections to get Lionheart the headmaster position at Haven. All to engage in a bit of social engineering.

>And here we dive head-first into why Ozpin's attitude since inhabiting Oscar back in V4 has never made sense. Ozpin was betrayed and his host killed, a Maiden gravely injured her power stolen then killed, Beacon fell, and dozens maybe hundreds of citizens dead or injured, kingdoms on the brink of war, and instead of hunting down and removing the problem while finding out how bad the damage was he sat around a house for 2 weeks and then walked into a trap. He waltzed his new host body Oscar, Qrow, RWBY & JN_P into a trap he'd have to have been blind not to see, given how old he is, nearly getting them all killed. Yes the bad guys were incompetent but still it was possible that maybe the building would have fallen on them or they'd suffer the delayed effects of food poisoning or something. He didn't even have a plan when he confronted and stupidly revealed himself to Lionheart except to have Oscar uselessly smack the Faunus around with a stick until Weiss got skewered. And Ozpin knew Hazel was present before he revealed himself.

>RWBY sure are putting a lot of faith in Oscar's interpretation of whatever info he's accessing from Ozpin's memories.

>Be distrustful all you want but pointing a weapon at an ally without justification seems like the last thing that should be acceptable even in this situation. And they've seen nothing from Qrow to make them believe he was a threat.

>"What is Ozpin hiding from us?" Is one of the worst most non-specific questions one could ask about someone who's supposed to be millennia old. I'd think the shear amount of things Ozpin's hiding would be more than she could imagine. Words are important in magic, the wrong ones could cost more than life or leave you bound to something in ways that would make death seem preferable. Now I'm wondering if requests have a cost?

>And the whole situation just feels foul. Like holding someone down and taking what you want from them by force.

Looking more like RWBY got snookered by the trap of easy knowledge/power. The Jinn/Djinn's attitude was a major clue. And Ozpin wasn't attacking Ruby.

I'm hoping that Kerry & Miles haven't incorporated that book Wicked into their version of Oz here in RWBY.

>God damn I'm gonna get shat on for this, but they've handled Ozpin excellently. Having him have many traitors/failed allies in the past would be the perfect reason to not explain everything and compartmentalize. Or am I in a minority here?

Agree about there handling of Ozpin minus the Lionheart thing but it does make V4 & V5 worse in retrospect.

I'm more surprised it's here and now. I'd have put money on it being closer to the end- if not the season before or during the final season. Building up the mystery around her before a pay off. Now we're gonna know exactly who she is and her motives for the rest of the story.

> "What is Ozpin hiding from us?" Is one of the worst most non-specific questions one could ask about someone who's supposed to be millennia old. I'd think the shear amount of things Ozpin's hiding would be more than she could imagine. Words are important in magic, the wrong ones could cost more than life or leave you bound to something in ways that would make death seem preferable. Now I'm wondering if requests have a cost?

Given that her name is Djinn, I want to believe that the answer to "What is Ozpin hiding from us?" is going to be the least useful thing that Ozpin happens to be hiding from them. Djinns are notorious, in their own mythology, for fucking over the person asking a wish. While words are important to magic, wording is super fucking important to djinns.

I think it would be hilarious for one of them to see Ozpin's entire life, leaving them so overwhelmed that they can't give any specifics. One of them needs to see Oscar spanking his monkey and mumbling about Ruby. Make Blake see some Faunus genocide.

Salem's origin, the birth of the grim, the war of the kingdoms, the peace treaty that followed, Faunus persecution, the silver eyes, the fall of Mountain Glenn, Team STRQ's downfall- you could dedicate a whole season to each.

But I assume for brevity we'll just get Ozpin's origins.

Being Djinn (or Jean?) can only answer questions in a more oracle fashion, I don't think she'll do evil (she can only tell a person what they ask and we've got one question left). She's shown no malice, and may just do some playful teasing, joking, and flirting. But who knows. For all we know she used to be a person and Ozpin put her in the lamp. Grim are attracted to negative emotion after all, and 10,000 years will give ya such a crick in the neck.

In other words, in a world where "magic" is something more special than the super-power, he's arguing the relics and maidens aren't on that higher level. If you have luck manipulation, why shouldn't scrying be one?

Of course that's mainly down to how it's presented. And while I agree the maidens have looked pretty tame (not including Cinder during the fall of Beacon), I think the fancy visuals with the Lamp has helped sell it.

Oh lord that is gonna be hella difficult to balance lore wise. Ask anyone on /tg/ what happens when you take the potential of magic too seriously and you're talking about gods among men even with simple shit.

I think that her answer either needs to be utterly pointless, or it needs to cover everything (by which I mean Salem and Ozpin's origin, the Maidens, the McGuffins, the war, the king of Vale, and the Academies). Team STRQ's downfall would not be important to Blake or Weiss. And, the Grimm and Silver Eyes seem to be out of his league (I'm also okay with putting the McGuffins into the category of shit he found out about during his life but doesn't know the origin of; I'll be disappointed if the maidens also fall into that). Just getting Salem's and/or Ozpin's origin is a little too plot convenient.

That would make thematic sense the wizard of Oz was a man of science lying that he was a great and powerful wizard. Ozpin is a man of magic that lies to protect others (though could be argued he's being selfish since he has no faith in anyone). I don't think Ozpin would have been the one to make Dust work however.

Always a sucker for a Monty story, since they tend to be entertaining and informative. This one has the benefit of also answering a long-standing question about the lore of the show. Yes, there was actual thought given to how this Dust-based technology would work. With Monty's personality it seemed like a given but we'd never had confirmation until now. Shame nothing came of it.

I meant that only in as much as, say, someone showing that steam can be harnessed to power an engine. Using his superior knowledge, he showed people how to do magic-like things using this curiosity of a material called Dust. And his knowledge of magic gave him a heightened sense of what is possible in the world: instead of a dreamer trying to invent tomorrow, he is an old man trying to recreate yesterday (without the threat of nuclear –magical– destruction).

While the rookie artist sees concept art that doesn't go to use, and the accountant sees employee time wasted, the director sees exercises in flushing out the world.

Monty didn't have him draw the engine of a car to fuck with him, he had him draw the engine of the car to get him thinking about how the car works in the system of that world, and thus how that world works. I hope that one day he can look back and see how that experience helped him create better art for the series.

>I hope that one day he can look back and see how that experience helped him create better art for the series.

He's now the art director of RWBY, Camp Camp and a bunch of other RT properties so one would have hoped he'd realized it years ago. If he really regards it as a waste and it hasn't informed his design philosophy as you said, then nothing came of it.

there's no logical reason a Dust Nuke shouldn't be possible. The fact that dust can have an explosive elemental reaction means you can create a lot of heat, cold, electricity, gravitational pull, etc. Combine any of the above with regular chemicals and you've got some nasty shit. Plus it kinda writes itself when you consider RT's anti-nationalist stance. Atlas has enough dust to sell to the world to stop them going to war, but they stockpile it and make missiles for when they go to war because they stopped selling dust. Nationalism r dumb, make bridges not walls.

Kind of late but, all they would need to add to Weiss and Nora is a fluff petticoat, a ruffled, layered thing that goes underneath the skirt or dress.

It could be everywhere, even underneath and it wouldn't even be out of place, whatever they're doing with the edge of the same dress is unusual - if that's what they're going for, it's probably aesthetic.

At least we can see the true 'Thigh High,' thigh highs, that's probably what they're going for, and it works because who doesn't like actual thigh highs.

I liked it. I'm not necessarily a fan of the lore, but the fact that at least the world is now grounded and basically all questions regarding salem, the maidens, the relics, why magic is a big deal, etc. have been answered in some sort of logical sense.

Some of the logic was a bit shaky though. The only reason Salem became what she did is because the gods decided to be dicks for the hell of it.

So after they wiped out the first humanity, where did the second generation 'non-magic version' of humanity come from? I assume evolution but then where did they get their semblances from? I guess they naturally developed their aura into semblance abilities as they became sentient?

> Oh OK, the gods legit exist. No mystique or metaphor, just pop up for a visit and see them. Not even a trial to see a god or try to revive the dead like in other myths. Maybe it's just a personal choice I don't like it.

> Also god is basically a Faunus. They were never gonna show Faunus in a bad light unless they were rogue individuals, but they are literally god's chosen by the look of it.

> Nice godly voice. Or not.

> Actually back up- the gang now knows god exists. How are they not going to have an existential crisis over this? Praying for all sins to be forgiven or maybe even trying to find this realm of light to solve Salem and all the other problems of the world.

> God that skeleton looks weird without cel-shading. I get not all objects get cel-shading, but some bits do.

> If you're the god of light- why let the god of darkness create anything? Even with you. He looks sketch as fuck. Oh, and the Grim are just hanging out. No fan-fare with their appearance. Imagine if we'd have seen Ozma and Salem fighting Grim- wouldn't that be interesting in our action show.

> Salem's reaction to Ozma being sent back down under was a little under-emotional- in animation.

> That's better! Much more godly looking. Could need a touch more glowing maybe. I dunno.

> That line read of "you monsters" sucked, but the tears in the eyes in the scene after was pretty cool.

> I actually like the punishment the gods inflicted on Salem. Sure we have meta-knowledge that making anyone immortal as a punishment is a good way to make a life-long enemy, but in creation myths, it makes some sense. Like this punishment would be enough to send 99.9% of people wailing in despair and cause introspection.

> Ruby didn't need to look at the shadow, but w/e.

> OK I don't like Salem being "neutral". She uses the Grim (creation of darkness) and looks straight up evil. I'm honestly shocked the dark god didn't make a backhanded deal. "Make darkness reign and I'll let you die."

> I do love her plan however. It perfectly matches what she's been doing so far- turn nation on nation by feeding their desires/twisting ideology. Though I feel you'd need to make a hell of a speech to convince everyone who has the gift of the gods to try and turn them against them.

> These .pngs can't work when it's something everyone would turn to face!!

> I do love the dark god's VA though.

> Also, what the dark god did seems overblown- especially after a speech on the balance of light and death. Again, if we saw Salem had all of humanity already on her side, sure. But even then, "we need to keep the balance. Unless they try to kill us which wouldn't work anyway, then fuck 'em." Light god didn't even flinch and called life "an experiment". If we were supposed to find these gods fair, then no. They are falable and fucking petty. Imagine being the RWBY crew seeing this. "Don't chase the heaven equivalent, god's a dick just like Satan! He'll punish all for the sins of one and basic human desires like wanting to live forever or keep loved ones alive."

> And the moon destruction was just a tantrum/fender bender. Why not say like "When you look upon the world in light, it's barrenness will remind you. When you look upon the moon at night, it's shattered state will remind you." At least make it grandiose. In fact at one point I was nearly gonna say the whole flashback was on the moon before it was left to turn barren/destroyed as the gods made Remnant.

> "Yo Ozma, fix our mistake. It's not like we can still kick her ass six ways to Sunday." Feel like they could have handled it, but alright. I guess Ozpin did no wrong, and that'll never change. Can you tell I rewrote this post while watching? That aside, some signs of arrogance/selfishness/willing to go too far for her would have helped sell what happens later.

> In fact, this goes further to show it would have worked better if Salem was working for the dark god on the sly (and he genocided against the consent of the light god, or just played dumb on what Salem was doing to save his own ass), so that the light god would use Ozma to stop her. Neither god wants to fight directly because of the universe-ending consequences, but both will use humans (Dark to further it's goals, and Light to keep the balance and stop dark).

> While the Light god is being a lying dick (Dark did it all, I couldn't stop him, really), I do like the logic of how them being absent stops the magic working.

> Artifacts look cool. Surprised only two of them seems to be a fairytale/myth artifact (lamp and sword. Unless there are famous crowns and scepters)

> Aaand now the maidens are pointless. Unless she hopes the Maiden powers combined can kill the gods. You know- the magic powers that were probably granted by the gods in the first place yet were somehow still working when they left. That worked so well last time. Hello plot hole- god I missed you!! Nothing can quell how angry I am-

> OZPIN WAS HAPPY BEING A GOD?! What the fuuuuuck?! Ok, I take it back, he made plenty of mistakes. Again, they needed to show more of them talking/acting to sell him falling into this temptation, and him ruling over humanity and what kind of god he was, but my god he fucked up bad. You'd have to hear what Salem said from a loved one to think "yep, this is what a healthy person would say." Scenes of Salem starting to hate humans and Ozpin realizing he's making shit worse by ruling/getting his memory back would have worked wonders.

> Also, they really should have repeated the first episode dialogue as a refresher. It's been years man.

> God Salem and Djinn sound to similar.

> And Salem wanting to repopulate the world really doesn't work- unless we saw her grow to hate humanity. In fact, we don't even know if she liked ruling over them or not.

> This is the Ozpin/Cinder fight all over again.

> What's the point of the series if Salem can't die? Talk her round? Lock the witch in a box and hope she can't magic her way out?

A mixed bag- loved and hated lots of different bits with nothing in between. Kind of agree with >>36855

May have been better with no dialog from Djinn and instead we just had scenes of everyone talking and making it obvious what is going on. I think you could have still kept the episode the length it was. It sounds daft, but having a person tell a story leaves less interpretation open than witnessing it- even within a show. Imagine if after this we had the cast having conflicting view-points of who was right and wrong, or different interpretations.

Not to mention seeing Salem give charismatic speeches would help sell that she could twist humanity around her little finger and get anyone on her side. In fact, since we know we get scenes with Emerald and Salem later, imagine if we cut between her story to Emerald, and the true vision from Djinn.

But most of all, I'm really shocked how ambivalent the gods are. Ignoring Salem's motives, I get wanting to defy or kill gods if this is how they act when challenged.

The only reason Salem would have to find the artifacts is to stop the gods coming back (either destroy them or absorb their power or some shit).

If she's just gathering them (along with maiden powers that act as the key, maybe?)- why? Just leave them to rot where they are locked up. If you find out anyone is gathering artifacts (which all you'd need is a spy outside their hidey-holes or keeping an eye on the maidens) kill them then toss the thing to the bottom of the ocean or into orbit. Finding where something is hidden (even after Ozpin has moved it) is much easier than trying to take it out of that place. Salem wins by keeping Ozpin at a stalemate or constantly hiding the artifacts and she can keep whispering in the ears of world governments. The same applies if she wants to destroy them- keeping them hidden away and unknown stops anyone using them.

If she wants them so she can better rule over humanity- why? The grim do more than a good enough job to keep mortals in line, and a few disasters like the Vytal Festival should bring humanity enough to the brink to beg for any savior. She doesn't need more power, and trying to gather that power risks the gods coming back.

I'm hoping she doesn't want to kill the gods, because the strongest force we've seen is the maidens and their magic- the same thing the gods didn't care about before. And it's not like the Grim hurt the light god and something else special hurts the dark god- both are shown to be almighty. Maidens, Artifacts, Grim, Dust, Silver Eyes- Nothing should be able to kill them.

If she wants to repopulate the world with magic humans- she needs Ozpin. Falling shy of kidnapping him and tying him to a bed and trying to wipe out the magic-less humans (as outlined above)- she can't. Which means one of the prior motives must be it.

Ladies and gentlemen- our main villain's plan (world domination, deiticide, or genocide and replacement) doesn't work unless we get an asspull that can kill god, or she's being dumb. And she can't die, so we can't stop her aside from a heel turn.

You didn't study much Greek ethos. Hubris was the crux of this tragic tale. God of Light (GoL) granted her a merciful punishment for her hubris, immortality, which GoD agreed upon. They wanted her to "learn the importance of life and death (V&M)," and why Ozma seeked rest.

It's true, sickness hasn't been introduced in the entire story until today, but it can be construed Ozma seeked rest.

Salem didn't repent, and instead lead mankind betray the Godly order of V&M, seeking the curse&punishment of "immortality", lead GoD to destroy humanity itself with the gifts he had given them: Irony: "If you seek to destroy me with my own gifts, I shall gladly taken them from you."

The moon being destroyed is like the Bible's rainbow: a reminder to mankind that the Gods can easily wipe away humanity, just as easily as they were created.

Note, GoL did bring forth humanity once again. How is not explained, or the Fauness, Dust's creation, the maidens reincarnation, and why they are required for the extraction of the relics instead of Ozma. This does answer why the relics were separate, and keep being separated.

It's Ozma's fault for asking the wrong questions to Djinn. And in time, it will lead to humanity's downfall.

Who asked the first question these <100year cycle we know not. But we do know there's one question left the protagonists may not ask.

I won't lie to you guys, I actually enjoyed this episode a lot. Yes, I understand that this episode felt like a WoR video, but honestly with how it was presented and "carefully" handled, it was very entertaining to watch and intriguing to listen to. Honestly, what >>36856 has said is what I feel about the lore as well. However, I of course have some problems with this episode or at least some tidbits which have been stated in it, which doesn't make sense to me.

Although I have gotten used to the designs of the two godly brothers, they still look somewhat underwhelming to me or at least mainly the God of Light does. At first, I thought he was some type of reindeer-man, who has the ability to transform into a mystical reindeer or deer-like creature. Since deer to me can be portrayed as creatures of life, nature, and the wonders of creation, but instead, the God of Light transforms into a Shenron, because what's consistency.

>Due to Salem's actions, all of humanity is no more, they have been wiped off entirely from this planet.

<But yet somehow, the world still remains and humanity, despite being cleaned off from Remnant, repopulated themselves.

Huh? Am I missing something here, because this makes no sense.

>We now know how the moon was partially destroyed and looks the way it does.

Although it had taken them years to finally explain this, I disliked how it was done. Rather than having a grander explanation for the destruction of the moon, the God of Darkness just felt like destroying part of the moon, because why not.

>We now know why Ozpin needs to find the 4 relics.

Although this is cool, I can't wait for the """plot""" of the show to change once again, since soon we shall be on a quest to bring back the godly brothers, because why not?

>Salem is the way she is because the gods were dicks to her. haha.

>How come the 4 maiden children looks somewhat off proportionately? Or at least the oldest one does, her head is too large, but whatever.

>Salem

>Ozpin has gone through a plethora of reincarnations, which would explain as to why some of the previous carnations of Ozpin look underwhelming or bland design wise.

It's a small thing, but I actually somewhat like this, especially since it can go along with a statement that Ozpin has said a long time ago, "I have made more mistakes than any man, women, or child here on this planet." Miniscule detail, but it's still nice.

>And lastly Salem

This is all of what I can think of so far, but I have mostly enjoyed this episode, can't' wait for volume to go downhill after this.

Honestly, the could have just had it to where the gods re-created mankind again, but this time without their blessings and the gift of magic. But instead, they refused to explain how humanity came back.

Sorry, but one more post rather than slamming the door on what I thought.

I wonder if they should have saved this for the end of the season. Like the gang argues and makes temporary truces as they snatch the artifact back and forth. Maybe Dee and Dudley survived and overhear, and they try to snatch the relic, etc. Then we get to Atlas/that outpost, they ask the big question, and we get this episode (plus a more detailed fight between Ozpin and Salem for the finale).

Or maybe I'm just fan-fic writing so we can have a scene where Jaune asks in afterwards, asks if everyone is OK, and the whole gang just slowly turns to him shell-shocked.

After all, when this scene happens given past events makes sense. I am curious to see who will have millions more questions, and who is gonna try kicking Ozpin's teeth in even if he is in the body of a child.

I was hasty with what I said at the end of my last post.

Does Salem's plan (that we know of) make sense (for what we assume her plan is)?

Could megalomania and other ego-centric psychologies would legitimize going to the ends of the earth and eradicating anything that could stop her?

Neither do I. Since this is a world made by literal gods where magic and magical creatures exist, I suppose it isn't too far a stretch to say that there is something inherent in the humans of RWBY that gives them special powers for no real reason other than that it's just a biological function.

<But yet somehow, the world still remains and humanity, despite being cleaned off from Remnant, repopulated themselves.

> Huh? Am I missing something here, because this makes no sense.

You ain't the only one. If the gods had the Greek angle like the prior post said, you could have had both gods being dicks behind the others back (light leaving some humans alive/protecting them, while dark left his grim portal around). Just like Ozpin/Salem couldn't resist interfering, neither could they. It'sLikePoetry.PNG

> Although this is cool, I can't wait for the """plot""" of the show to change once again, since soon we shall be on a quest to bring back the godly brothers, because why not?

In fact, we still don't really know why Ozpin is gathering them. If he does, humanity is wiped out (in its current state). Why not attempt world peace THEN get the artifacts? The second he got his hands on the lamp he should have done something to stop Salem getting it (again, just like she has no reason to wield them).

In fact I just realized- Salem doesn't have her magic. No one does except Ozpin who will die if he does. She just has the powers of the dark god/grim. Which is still shit hot, but Ozpin still has a little bit. Yeet those fucking artifacts into the moon. Once humanity has peace, they can go up there and get them back (working together knowing they could get those blessings must make them build a decent NASA not reliant on Dust or make Dust work in space). Hopefully somehow stopping Salem during the world peace bit. But if she has magic you can't, but if she doesn't it's easier?

It's because they see and judge things differently. One creates, one destroys. Both create life, and lead death. They aren't omniscient or fateless, and are clear this world is remnant of a former. They are still learning, just like humanity learns.

Probably the second generation of humanity appeared because of one of the shards of the moon landing on Earth (or landing precisely in GoD's creation pool). The first episode of RWBY did say something about man being borne from dust.

As much as I'm scratching my head this episode, I do think the shows has improved leaps and bounds this season. I'm entertained, and I'm asking about plot holes less. The only reason I'm asking more about these ones is the build up we've had to them.

>It works either metaphorically (a survivor stands out of the rubble), or literally (GoL pool + big rocks with magic crystal in it = life just like the gods made??)

Since darkness god smashed the moon on the way out, it might be that he purposely sent some of it back toward the creation pool in order to create humanity. So Dust could be the moon-bits in general (which is why Dust Magic is a thing, since Magic is Darkness's gift), and the moon-bit that landed in creation-pool has both Darkness and Light, thus giving us humans.

So far I am actually intrigued by this season's offerings, but I do feel that once we think about it, the cracks will slowly surface. I do feel that RT is trying to make Ozpin Sympathetic and have RWBY all "Aww it okay, we forgive you let's save the world. Ganbatte ne!"… but from the choices he made in the story, he doesn't seem to be interested with being a good leader or being for humanity rather just to stop his ex-wife from fucking shit up. Also, the kids they got are basically the Maidens magic. Better than the folktale shit we got… but…

Remember, in folklore Genies are tricky people. You gotta have to be precise in your wording to get your wish… or in the RWBYverse case, get the answer you're looking for. From the wording you described it seems that they are looking for a "Chosen One" ideal, as Ozpin cant defeat Salem… but other people CAN.

Basically from the looks of how the folklore is going, RWBY will be the chosen ones. I don't know HOW they will put it in the series… but from the looks of Miles and Kerrys writing. Either RWBY will get the Maidens' powers, or them represent the humanity doing the power of teamwork and friendship and shit.

I wanna say he nitpicking, but yeah the emotional investment of Salem doing things for the D, her slow hatred for Humanity, and Ozma's feelings towards Salem and humanity would have worked better if we get them to be in a relationship and not be just summarized in 2 minutes. That would have been spawned better with a two-parter WoR special mid-season 5 and 6.

Since Grim are a creation of the GoD, I wonder if Silver Eyes are a product of the GoL, or even both of them once the Grim grew out of control/under Cinder.

Or it could entirely be dust/secondary humans. Then we'd have Salem with possibly maiden powers/relics (a being born from the powers of gods/magic) vs. RWBY (power of teamwork, technology, semblences and aura). Old and worship vs. new and freewill. You can only be free if you work together, divided your easier to control by other forces, etc. etc.

> Y'all know that Ozma's a woman's name, right? Ozma was the queen of Oz.

> So, Oz is cursed for going after princess pussy?

> Salem did nothing wrong. Seriously, she was a cunt, but it was to be expected: the man that she had no reason to love died (she literally forms an emotional attachment to the first non-relative cock she meets in her life).

> GoL is a douche god who is not worthy of worship. GoD is only worthy of fear.

> Here are McGuffins so that I can be an even bigger douche later!

I realize that this probably has to do with RT's view on religion, or maybe it's an Oriental thing, but the GoL being such a douche (to my Western eyes) makes Oz look like an incredible tool for doing his bidding. Ozpin is TOTALLY doing something wrong.

> Oz must be retarded from how long it took him to realize that Salem was batshit crazy.

> I'm going to guess that Oz is doing sketchy magical shit to keeps his daughters' magic in the world. It doesn't make sense for them to have inherited their father's reincarnation immortality, unless there are tons of Oz's other children running around Remnant.

Actually, I think this is funny: the maidens really are pointless, it's just a thousand year's-old custody battle.

Feel correct in saying that the knowledge the lamp offered was a trap. If there's one thing that's been clear since the start of the series it's that Ozpin wasn't recruiting soldiers. He had no plan to build up an anti-Salem army and would have put no one in direct confrontation with her. He recruited people to guard humanity and the relics. Can he be faulted for sparing them "the sorrow of knowing" things they cannot change and don't have the power to effect?

I'll leave off my planned criticism of the episode including its uneven cinematography. But will include my favourite clip that shows both the heights the episode aspired to and at the same time failed to achieve. Though I wonder what it means when RT has a watch party for this episode since in the past they saved those for the end of the volume.

So, 10minute episode of fake drama, and perhaps Salem or Cinder catches up to the group and succeeds in capturing Qrow while attempting catch Ruby.

Qrow punching Ozpin doesn't make sense even if he never had a plan to begin with, when he clearly always did: deterrence and peace with the nations by isolating the relics. The goal never was "defeat Salem," Ozma made that his goal. GoL clearly said to unite the relics when mankind was ready for judgment day, and they clearly aren't.

It's here the writing is showing it's flaws. Instead of Salem having a hissy fit that Ozpin is back so soon, and not within her plans, she should have been addressing how they need to now get the other relics not in Atlas since that side project is as easy as re-usurping James Ironwood's robot army. Two for the price of one project already won.

I think Raven and Taiyang will tag and rescue the other relics now that Raven is a maiden.

Salem's plan may horrible backfire if all schools are destroyed and are united against Salem for collecting the relics at so much damage.

Man guys, I sure do love drama, aw man it is the best amirite? But on a serious note, which they didn't make the drama so melodramatic. I know that this is still an anime, but I was mostly laughing at that whole drama scene than being concerned for the characters, especially when Qrow punches Ozpin.

>Because the gang is being too negative, the old lady has to come up and tell everyone to get their act together and to continue traveling.

I actually like this, not gonna lie. However, I hate it when Ruby tries to talk seriously, it's sounds pretty annoying and off to me, but whatever.

>Oscar asks if he is going to be just another life for Ozpin. Ruby was trying to be positive, but Qrow states the truth.

I don't mind this tbh.

>Meanwhile, back in the Grimm World, the whole squad of evil is there to confront Salem.

>Salem asks how did they lose, Hazel was going to give her the correct answer, but then Salem changed the question, because Salem.

>Apparently Cinder and mainly Cinder was the reason as to why they lost that day because blaming a single person for the loss of an entire team is what you should do, clearly.

As much as I dislike Cinder, this doesn't make sense to me.

>Salem says how Cinder is actually still alive and should suffer in isolation as a punishment. The dude with the mustache logically asks how does Salem know Cinder is still alive.

>"ARE YOU QUESTIONING OUR DIVINE SAVIOUR?!"

>The question was negated.

What an easy way out of actually trying to explain something which should be explained. Not sure about you guys, but I would like to know how Salem knew that Cinder was still alive, especially after her fight with Raven.

>Hazel mentions how the team is now traveling with Ozpin to secure the ancient relic.

>Due to the mentioning of Ozpin, Salem begins to REEEEE.

haha.

This is everything that I can think of right now, there was a little more after this, but not a whole lot happened anyway.

Raven isn't the person to sit around and do nothing. She was building an Army, against both Salem and Ozpin. Fled to Taiyang after consenting both Yang's words and ethos.

Recall why both Raven and Rose fell in love with Taiying, we saw exactly that when Yang was training with him: he's like Jean, a pillar to rely on, in the good and the bad.

Now with Raven, foremost lovers, they both know what's really important. If they rebuild Vale, I'd be surprised. Raven, the new headmaster of Vale. Though I think Glynda Goodwitch completely earned that title.

Nvm, Qrow specifically narrated he's been rebuilding Haven and now went with the kids to chaperone. So yeah: what do Raven, wanting independence from godly wars, and Taiyang wanting peace have in common? Fucking each day and night isn't it.

> Honestly shocked not one of them just started kicking his ass out of anger. Still feel like they had a million questions. Not to mention Yang's first question makes no sense- they already know Leo was not the first traitor. He didn't trust them (either to not turn, not to go rogue like Raven, or not submit to torture).

> And this is why I shouldn't type while watching. But they also did it in the worst way possible (anime speed lines and exaggerated reactions) rather than a more realistic way to add to the weight. Also horrible phrasing by Oscar (as oppose to "I can't sense/feel him anymore")

> If this old girl isn't involved in the myth, I think she's taking this far too well.

> Really surprised Emerald still has so much respect for Cinder. She seemed less and less keen as time went on. I'd expect her to be more withdrawn now she's effectively stuck working for Salem. Very minor gripe tho.

> And our first major continuity error - why is scorpion-boy in the room before them? We know he must have entered first- but why? Last we checked he's having fun on the landing pad with no real need to run ahead.

> Fucking hell, scorpy is lucky to not be dead.

> Salem's professional VA work really does shine through.

> Writers really must have heard complaints about Ruby not being a leader, she's been all business nearly all the time. Not complaining, glad she takes shit seriously when shit gets serious. Though I do wonder if it'll become a bit of a whiplash later on.

> Bit anti-climactic. Needed to end with something else.

Not bad. Good bits, bad bits, and some dumb bits rearing their ugly head.

Quick question- are the windows in Salem's HQ the same as the windows of her + Ozma's castle in the flashback?

I agree on the issues with why Qrow is mad about Ozpin's plan, and Salem's plan overall/reaction. It's not even that hard a sell on the former if you emphasize Qrow feeling uniting people in peace is impossible, and playing keep-away with Salem will just delay the inevitable.

Having seen the whole thing, I actually kind of get why the writers did it. Salem expects the people she uses to be able to carry out their task, and she wouldn't assign them something that even the most unexpected circumstances couldn't derail- i.e. they can be sneaky or brutish enough to still get it. So that only leaves one of them screwing up.

Problem is, none of them are convincing as a one-man-army (even Hazel) or sneaky enough to avoid a crowd. Plus if she's boarder-line omnipotent/3D chessmaster enough to expect their failure to be impossible, then how could she not see Cinder losing her temper and being the one to be blamed?

You can't sell someone as being a genius/totally understands human nature and behavior/omnipotent when she didn't for see a screw up. A little ego or limitation doesn't hurt. Her being shocked the Faunus united, but then knowing untrained rubes would not be enough would have been a fine reason for her to demand blame.

I disagree: Salem preaches how "mankind's hearts are easily swayed" and both the plans for Vale and Vacuo were predicated on people failing each other. In fact, destroying the goal of the white fang was crucial to her goal: she knows Cinder will fault, esp. sway.

The flaw was intel leak. That was an oversight in Salem's plan, not Cinder's. Cinder's order as fall maiden was to acquire the relic, nothing more. It was Tyrian's job to eradicate Ruby[&Qrow]. At this very point, Salem should have seen a new probability to her goal. Cinder decided to do a two for one, which would have worked if not for Blake's reinforcement:

Which again Hazel forgot to mention

He took responsibility as if it mattered since he isn't a maiden to be able to acquire the relic.

Salem blaming everything on Cinder, even as pathos discipline is stupid.

If Salem can't die anyway why doesn't she go and kill high profile characters like Qrow or Ruby herself. It's not like they're a threat against an immortal being. If salem had shown up in the V5 ending battle things would have gone different.

Salem required intelligence from within the Cross Continental Transmit System to find out where the relics lie.

Arthur Watts provided exactly that: a virus to infiltrate their systems, and compromise scrolls across the entire planet[1]. James cited so to Qrow when attempting to escort the fall maiden[2]. Why was the fall maiden being escorted to Vale, who knows. We know Salem requires 1 maiden, so Cinder can become one to enter the realms of the relics.

With a maiden now in hand, acquiring the compromised Relic of Knowledge should have been a piece of cake, IF there wasn't interference. Cinder in this case excelled in dynamically adapting her plans accounting for new players, bringing Adam along with his Crew to bomb Haven Academy[3].

Why would Salem leave her only maiden [bishop] alone to suffer, when she needs Cinder FOR ANY RELIC?

I'm telling you all the pathos training was already done![4]

In writing, this makes no sense, Salem knows EVERYONE HAS FLAWS, EXCEPT HER! Why would she assume Cinder wouldn't fail, EVEN AFTER SHE FAILED TO GATHER OZPIN'S RELIC?!!?

> I don't understand Qrow's anger here. Everyone should just be too shocked by what they've seen and that Ozpin has NO plan other than keep the relics apart so that the world doesn't end. At least he also admits that the gods are douchebags and them coming back is a bad thing.

> They should have beat Oscar up when Ozpin peaced out, though, out of frustration.

> I don't know who this old lady is, and she annoys the shit out of me, but I understand that the narrative requires her. They needed a neutral third party so that the party doesn't tie Oscar to a tree and leave him there.

> I'm thinking that Hazel, Emerald, and Mercury are going to split, join Cinder, and start collecting the relics in the vain hope that one of them can kill Salem. It's not that they want to kill Salem, but now that they've left they HAVE to kill Salem, or always be looking behind their backs.

Ozpin having his falling out with RWBY and Qrow over his flashback and how Salem can't be killed by mortal means is weak writing. Obvious melodrama to force a conflict.

RWBY already signed onto a war against an endless horde of monsters that can wipe out towns. They have no signs that they can be forever destroyed. For THAT to be the breaking point and not Ozpin having already knowingly put civilians at risk is weak.

It's also silly how they treat to make the melodrama something that impacts the team when really only Yang should be seriously angry about it instead of just let down like Ruby is. Weiss and Blake shouldn't care that much since they don't know Ozpin, he has no connections with their families (that they know of, anyway), and haven't bonded with him like Ruby has.

The worst part of this is how this'll be settled. Either Ozpin checks out and RWBY asspulls some way to forever stop Salem or Ruby somehow gets Ozpin to stick around and say sorry. Either they force a victory after what would be a point of failure or the status quo stays.

The only somewhat interesting angle they can take this "REEE OZPIN DIDN'T TELL US SALEM'S UNKILLABLE" melodrama is one where Ozpin decides that what RWBY did is the last straw. That he's fed up with the betrayal, the ingratitude, the overall ugliness in human. He's going to use everything he has at his disposal to acquire the relics so that he can summon the gods back for them to smite Salem and end humanity if they see fit. He can end his task at last, and if humanity dies then so be it. Perhaps as he fades out he wonders what he even helped such a disappointing kind for.

The point is that for this subplot to not be a big waste of time it needs to change the status quo. Having Team RWBY talk to Ozpin and say sorry to him (or vice-versa) is weak since it really changes nothing. Having Ozpin sign-out and RWBY find a way to stop Salem without Ozpin or the gods just makes both the wizard and gods look pathetic. At least in my "Ozpin tries to bring about the apocalypse" SOMETHING changed from this subplot we're being subjected to now.

>RWBY find a way to stop Salem without Ozpin or the gods just makes both the wizard and gods look pathetic.

My guess is that the wording of the god's curse is important, and that RWBY will find a way to stop Salem by showing her the importance of death to balance life. Then she dies, as her curse is lifted. That is, they DO absolutely nothing to stop Salem: she dies because she learns something from their struggle.

Other than that, this is just worthless melodrama.

And I sincerely hope that that final confrontation involves Cinder, Emerald, and Mercury on their own side, trying to kill Salem as well.

Also, for Ozpin to have fought for so long with no obvious reward expected yet run away like a bitch when a bunch of teenage girls and a manbaby whine at him for something that really changes nothing about what they were doing is bad writing. He could have just shot back "If it wasn't for me humanity would be Salem's plaything and Qrow would just be a garbage bandit like his cowardly sister." Rubbed RWBY's noses in how they were acting how they were expected to act. Instead, he bitched out.

All of RWBY besides Ruby herself (who's at least trying to learn how to succeed at their mission) are no more bright. Qrow's a grown man who was already one of Ozpin's co-conspirators and so should have considered the Grimm's (who have yet to be destroyed by man) leader Salem can't be killed by human means. Which bounces back onto the "they already signed up onto an endless war against the Grimm, learning Salem can't be killed by mortals changing just about nothing" point.

>has no actual motivations other than "the gods told me so"

Doesn't change what was said. Even so, he should have not taken what RWBY and Qrow were whining at him for seriously. The only believable option he has now is to just write the lot of them off as failures and steal the relic at night so he can start anew. He obviously can't trust them anymore. So of course that won't happen.

Right. With "I've made more mistakes than anyone alive" and him being a pseudo-god, you'd have thought he would be responsible for major shit down the line (the shit treatment of Faunus, Atlas being a super-power, his involvement in the great war and the "war against individuality"). While he shouldn't be directly involved with everything, the butterfly effect of what he and Salem did should have been shown. The flashback may have been 2 episodes instead of one then.

Execution is more key than anything. You can sell the gang trying to unite people, and showing how working together and putting aside differences can rival darkness, magic, and gods (the negative parts of humanity, the unknown, and the understanding you have of the world).

>Right. With "I've made more mistakes than anyone alive" and him being a pseudo-god, you'd have thought he would be responsible for major shit down the line

It's underwhelming how for all the hype in the fandom over Ozpin is so shady THAT's the big secret. It comes off as they were desperate to find something to suit the hints that Ozpin was more than what he seemed as a friendly old magic man and throw a bone to the fans saying he'd turn-out to be a villain but wouldn't have him doing something TOO malicious or heinous since they want him to stick with Ruby's posse.

>the shit treatment of Faunus

Actually, I see him backing the White Fang. If not helping found it then secretly aiding Sienna Kahn in her rise to power as a way to bring harmony between faunus and humans. Obviously this goes badwrong but it'd fit with the "Ozpin as a honestly well-meaning man who still makes mistakes or who's plans go awry."

>Atlas being a super-power

I can also see him through Ironwood working with Jacques to seize the SDC for their Ozluminati's goals.

>his involvement in the great war and the "war against individuality"

Him being at odds with "individuality" doesn't really suit his actions even back when he was a headmaster.

>While he shouldn't be directly involved with everything, the butterfly effect of what he and Salem did should have been shown. The flashback may have been 2 episodes instead of one then.

That's a strong point. We're obviously supposed to see Salem as some "tragic monster" here, except she's too quick to jump straight into roping her fellow humans into a war on the gods, try to rule them as gods with Ozpin, and talk about replacing them with her Master Race to be buyable as one.

>Execution is more key than anything. You can sell the gang trying to unite people, and showing how working together and putting aside differences can rival darkness, magic, and gods (the negative parts of humanity, the unknown, and the understanding you have of the world).

That bounces back again onto the problem of "How did Ozpin not try this?" They wrote themselves into a corner by introducing Salem's invulnerability among her otherwise effective godhood, establishing Ozpin has failed to kill or even just stop her from acting for centuries, and yet still having set RWBY to be the ones to settle this big shadow war. If they have RWBY cut ties with Ozpin yet still succeed that just makes him an embarrassment.

>Actually, I see him backing the White Fang. If not helping found it then secretly aiding Sienna Kahn in her rise to power

Or, he could have been a background benefactor to Ghira, and Sienna was that plan going to shit. Ghira seems to be more ideologically aligned to Oz than Sienna, and it would explain how a terrorist was admitted to Beacon: Oz admitted Blake from sentimentality over his old friend Ghira.

Yeah. Since Qrow is now something than just a edgy bandit shaking down townsfolk.

>tricked this whole time and now no longer know what you were fighting for

He should already asked if they were going to kill the Grimm/Salem off forever if doing so was that important to him fighting under Ozpin. Nothing says he did, nothing says this was ever important before this Volume brought it up. For him to serve under Ozpin as one of his agents for so long (he already knows well about Ozpin's plans like with the Maidens) yet now he suddenly starts pulling a Zero is silly when he learns the leader of the endless army of monsters who have been threatening man for centuries can't be killed by mortal means.

>yeah nah, ozpin is a faggot that does not believe in freedom and war

His backstory when combined with his tactics shows he hardly lords over the planet he has watch over in the present day. He gives plenty of leeway to others in their choices.

Obviously. We're going to Ruby or even Jaune just yell at him to come out of his mage shell since they still need him and he says sorry for being so mean. They're going with Ozpin as now not having the fortitude to stand by his decisions or even just point that for all his mistakes, it was thanks to his efforts RWBY and Co. are in a safe enough society to do so.

>Or, he could have been a background benefactor to Ghira, and Sienna was that plan going to shit. Ghira seems to be more ideologically aligned to Oz than Sienna, and it would explain how a terrorist was admitted to Beacon: Oz admitted Blake from sentimentality over his old friend Ghira.

The idea would be that he sees the faunus' potential as attack dogs AND that since his goal requires him to keep the world in "harmony" yet humans continue to be meanies to faunus he'd decide that it's time to take hardcore measures. He'd know from his many many years the ugliness in human nature and that to get a man's respect in many cases you need to bare your fangs. So he backs Sienna since he sees her as the strongwoman the White Fang/faunus need and that once they become stable she can be brought aboard.

Adam rising ruined that and so he wrote off the WF as a failure. He can still be friends with Ghira but secretly figure that his methods won't work for what he needs (militarize the faunus enough to get humans to treat with them and also to counter Salem).

I really need to watch the chapters before I split them to upload mp4s, having cut on the shot, I've made an awkward break in Salem's dialogue.

>Yang's dialogue here is about as stilted as when she was mad about Ozpin "turning" Qrow and Raven into birds. Her anger here is just as ridiculous.

>This whole scene is farcical when you remember that they've just learned the secret history of their world. Not just through telling, they've actually seen it for themselves. They should really still be processing things and each coming to grips with these revelations in their own time.

That point I made before the chapter came out still stands. Ozpin never told any of them they were going off to fight or defeat Salem.

>And after everything they've just learned Ruby's question qualifies her for some sort of "Maximum Stupid" award. How does one even begin to make sense of what she & the rest of the group have just learned and even form that question in her mind?

>Should any of them even be speaking now?

This is reminiscent of V4C2 where RNJR had that inhuman reaction to the dying Huntsman.

>And where did Jinn go? It just returned to the lamp without tempting them to waste another question?

>Qrow's reaction is so melodramatic it borders on farcical. Way to undercut what little drama there was by doing that shot of Oscar's face as he gets punched.

>So he didn't belong to a bandit tribe and a team of Huntsmen before? He's seen no value in any of the work he's done over the years?

Qrow should have died in V4, I knew they'd screw him up. I'd almost believe his attitude if it was resentment for Oz covering up the deaths of the 30+ Huntsmen last volume to spare Lionheart's reputation. Because it just as easily could have been Qrow's life written off to cover up the actions of someone Ozpin saw as more valuable. But Qrow easily accepted that lie and maybe many others before.

>There's a parallel to Ozpin and later Salem's reaction to events in this chapter that don't make sense but I'll come back to that.

>They may as well put a dunce cap on Yang.

>2 volumes later is too late to show Oscar having problems with Ozpin in his head.

>So Calavera has to be the on to outright state that she's "still coming to terms with the fact that this is humanity's second time around"? And then everybody puts on their sad faces? Were RWBY & Qrow just avoiding thinking about what they'd just experienced?

>Calavera's voice is terrible.

>Yes, Oscar. You are going to be another one of "his" lives. This should have been your primary concern from the start. Too bad the loss of everything that is you was treated like a joke until now. And since you've just learned the history of the world of Remnant your concern is too little, too late.

>If it was that type of show, I wish that Ozpin had bounced his retracted cane off Qrow's skull then proceeded to stomp him into the snow for being a useless drunk.

>I've always disliked the design of these Mistral airships.

>This whole scene is just bad.

>Didn't you fail "our queen" 2 volumes ago, Tyrian? Yet here you are still cackling like a useless "offscreen badass".

>It would make more sense, given what we've just learned about her, if Salem had anticipated their failure. Given the long game she and Ozpin are playing I don't see why she'd have an Adam-like reaction to finding out Ozpin was alive. If she'd had 3 relics and he set her back to zero, I could understand. But things are still in play and arguably going her way since one relic is in the open and on its way to another. From the start, I presumed this whole thing was more of a test for Cinder than anything else. A test that Salem knew Cinder would fail more likely than not.

>M&K are still doing that thing from V4 where they have the characters unable to see a few dozen meters ahead of them while walking on a trail.

You anons have already hashed out a lot of the other points I could make. While I disagree with the lead up to it, I support Ozpin's decision to withdraw if only because RWBY & Qrow are being irrational. There's also no excuse for his getting outplayed by Salem so badly last volume nor for the fact that he sat around playing with the kids instead of being more proactive. That's why I couldn't praise the earlier chapters. The last 2 volumes evidence something so flawed in the writing that will take more than a few well-received chapters to fix. If you didn't see this fumble coming you weren't paying attention.

>Yang's dialogue here is about as stilted as when she was mad about Ozpin "turning" Qrow and Raven into birds. Her anger here is just as ridiculous.

>Qrow's reaction is so melodramatic it borders on farcical. Way to undercut what little drama there was by doing that shot of Oscar's face as he gets punched.

It would have been funny stupid if it was Yang who punched Oscar in the Face ala her Volume 5 punch with the bandit. Muh Pinball Patriarchy.

>And after everything they've just learned Ruby's question qualifies her for some sort of "Maximum Stupid" award. How does one even begin to make sense of what she & the rest of the group have just learned and even form that question in her mind?

>Should any of them even be speaking now?

Somehow learning about the ENTIRE history of the first civilization, you'd think that they'd have a LOT more questions than "How can we beat Salem?"

>And where did Jinn go? It just returned to the lamp without tempting them to waste another question?

Ruby will either waste it on her Silver Eyes (either that or Maria will infodump her) or some dumb question that is more about herself than it is the big picture.

>Yang's dialogue here is about as stilted as when she was mad about Ozpin "turning" Qrow and Raven into birds. Her anger here is just as ridiculous.

Indeed. They just seemed to take Jaune's trait of distrusting Ozpin and just dumped it on Yang. It's gotten to the point where anons 4chan's RWBYg are suggesting she's join Salem or at least become her mother since she's such a rotten girl.

>>This whole scene is farcical when you remember that they've just learned the secret history of their world. Not just through telling, they've actually seen it for themselves. They should really still be processing things and each coming to grips with these revelations in their own time.

That leaps onto the problem this melodrama is poorly placed.

>That point I made before the chapter came out still stands. Ozpin never told any of them they were going off to fight or defeat Salem.

He did talk of "beating" Salem though. Granted, that doesn't mean "kill her." That could mean prevent her from succeeding.

>Qrow should have died in V4, I knew they'd screw him up. I'd almost believe his attitude if it was resentment for Oz covering up the deaths of the 30+ Huntsmen last volume to spare Lionheart's reputation. Because it just as easily could have been Qrow's life written off to cover up the actions of someone Ozpin saw as more valuable. But Qrow easily accepted that lie and maybe many others before.

Again, Qrow should have talked with Ozpin about killing Salem if doing so was that important to his service. He doesn't say anything about this being important before Volume 6. He should know that the Grimm (who Salem commands) have been around for a really long level of time with no end for them in sight. Their leader being unkillable by mortals should be no surprise.

>While I disagree with the lead up to it, I support Ozpin's decision to withdraw if only because RWBY & Qrow are being irrational.

As I already said, the only way this subplot will lead to anything remotely interesting is if Ozpin cuts his ties with RWBY and focuses on reuniting the relics so that he can summon the gods back. It not only has Ozpin taking the initiative but has RWBY learn to succeed without him.

>He did talk of "beating" Salem though. Granted, that doesn't mean "kill her." That could mean prevent her from succeeding.

Salem is like a hurricane: you beat her by hunkering down, letting her blow over, and if your house is standing the next day, you've won.

> As I already said, the only way this subplot will lead to anything remotely interesting is if Ozpin cuts his ties with RWBY and focuses on reuniting the relics so that he can summon the gods back. It not only has Ozpin taking the initiative but has RWBY learn to succeed without him.

Here's my BS for a way forward:

Ozpin takes off to collect the relics. Maybe Oscar decides that if he summons the Gods, then he will be free from Ozpin.

Emerald, Mercury, and Hazel run from Salem, because she's too batshit crazy (she's starting to make The Major from Hellsing look reasonable). They start to collect the relics in the hope that they can kill Salem (because no one leaves the family… alive).

Emerald, Mercury, and Hazel join up with Cinder and, improbably, Neo.

Cinder, Emerald, Mercury, Hazel, and Neo run into and capture Ozpin/Oscar.

Cinder etc follow RWBY to Atlas, where they steal the Lantern and the Staff.

>Salem is like a hurricane: you beat her by hunkering down, letting her blow over, and if your house is standing the next day, you've won.

Maybe. I was more thinking just getting all the relics and putting them where she can't get them.

>Ozpin takes off to collect the relics. Maybe Oscar decides that if he summons the Gods, then he will be free from Ozpin.

Remember that Ozpin SHOULD have other loyal henchmen like Glynda for him to rally in his quest to achieve apocalypse even with Qrow's betrayal so he wouldn't go it alone for so long. Obviously he wouldn't mention the "end the world part" to any of them.

He also sees how forced Yang's sudden hostility to Ozpin is. I don't know what made them think doing so was a good idea when they already had Jaune to play that role. Doubly when apparently the start of doubts after leaving Raven's home is Ozpin turning twins into birds (even though she lives in a world where there's both animal men and necromancers).

>Indeed. They just seemed to take Jaune's trait of distrusting Ozpin and just dumped it on Yang. It's gotten to the point where anons 4chan's RWBYg are suggesting she's join Salem or at least become her mother since she's such a rotten girl.

Kerry & Miles had Yang come right out and announce the "death" of her character last volume. By that I mean that they robbed her of what goals & motivation she may have had pre V5 and just made her will subordinate to Ruby's.

<From V5C8

<Yang: If Ruby sticks around, then I will too. If there's one thing I know about her, it's that she somehow always knows the right thing to do.

Though they've developed a parallel anger track with Jaune, Miles & Kerry are overplaying it to where Yang is coming off like a raging yeast infection. The only reason they're travelling with the relic they have is that they can't seal it away without the maiden. Since Yang is lying to them she's responsible in small part for their current dilemma. Her anger could be some strange attempt at covering her real feelings.

>Their leader being unkillable by mortals should be no surprise.

He believed in Ozpin's reincarnation so I'm at a loss to make sense of his reaction to all this. The story needs Qrow to be in a certain frame of mind and storytellers aren't doing the necessary work to get him there.

>Maybe. I was more thinking just getting all the relics and putting them where she can't get them.

If Salem was spurring Ozpin to panic and gather the relics himself so that she could more easily accomplish her goals that might be something. But how do you make that a believable reaction on Ozpin's part? They've both lived countless lifetimes and should have an immunity to that kind of pressure. From the limited mortal vantage Ozpin & Salem's actions are frustrating, confusing, or even maddening. But what's it like from the perspective of a grand champion chess match played over the course of thousands of lifetimes?

>Kerry & Miles had Yang come right out and announce the "death" of her character last volume. By that I mean that they robbed her of what goals & motivation she may have had pre V5 and just made her will subordinate to Ruby's.

Yang asked Ozpin "What's wrong with you?" for giving her mother and uncle the ability to turn into birds even though she lives in a world with animal men and one of her teammates is a necromancer (Weiss with her summoning dead Grimm). Like what, is shapeshifting into animals some taboo "forbidden magic"? Does it tie into anti-faunus antics? I don't know and I doubt we'll get a solid addressing of that.

>He believed in Ozpin's reincarnation so I'm at a loss to make sense of his reaction to all this. The story needs Qrow to be in a certain frame of mind and storytellers aren't doing the necessary work to get him there.

If they really need to have Qrow fall-out with Ozpin then they should have started it with the cover up of Leo's treachery as said in >>36966 and then have it go full throttle once Ozpin revealed he put civilians at risk knowingly.

>If Salem was spurring Ozpin to panic and gather the relics himself so that she could more easily accomplish her goals that might be something. But how do you make that a believable reaction on Ozpin's part?

He's tired of his job and wants to get it over with so that he can go rest.

>Kerry & Miles had Yang come right out and announce the "death" of her character last volume. By that I mean that they robbed her of what goals & motivation she may have had pre V5 and just made her will subordinate to Ruby's.

Hell, from the looks of Yang's choices, you'd wonder if Yang and Ruby were ever close as sisters. Her arc has already completed, and she basically conciders her mom dead to her… so all that's left is to be Blake's love interest. Dear god I hope not.

If Raven was actually the chosen Spring Maiden by Ozpin (instead of murdering the weaker Maiden), and had to hide it all her life because of the insanity and burden her role has, MAAAAYBE I can understand Yang's Anger involving the lore she just received.

it's funny, now that I think about it. In the show, Yang actually never really show love to Ruby. in fact, IIRC, the only proof we ever actually have of that is "Gold". also, the opening to Volume 3, Ruby tells her mother's grave that "She keeps Yang in check."

>If Raven was actually the chosen Spring Maiden by Ozpin (instead of murdering the weaker Maiden), and had to hide it all her life because of the insanity and burden her role has, MAAAAYBE I can understand Yang's Anger involving the lore she just received.

Again, it comes off as the writers still wanting us to see Ozpin as a valiant, heroic figure for all mistakes he might make so they don't have him do anything TOO heinous or malicious once he's broken ties with Salem. Him talking Raven into becoming a Maiden with her suffering for it would make Yang and maybe Qrow's (if he wasn't told about Raven being the Maiden and how it was Ozpin's idea) attitude stronger. And would provide Yang more grounds to take what Raven says seriously.

>Yang put Ruby in danger as a child, which supposedly set off her protective instinct with Ruby

>Ruby says she keeps Yang in check

>Yang goes cold and shuns Ruby at the end of Volume 3

>She doesn't give a single fuck her little sister went off to half way across the world, with only a letter to Tai for warning

>Yang doesn't have any more deepening familial ties with Ruby

>She simply just becomes subservient to Ruby because she's got nothing left because poorly written mom plot.

>By looking at character developing scenes out of context and objectively, one could argue that Weiss (or Jaune) and Ruby are more siblings than Ruby and Yang. The same can also be said of Yang and Blake.

I mean, they are shit writers, granted. But it could've been simple enough to write in scene which shows her hugging Ruby or actually worrying about her.

Little of the overall plot would change if Yang wasn't a blood relative of Ruby. Such as having her be adopted by Taiyang as a favor to Qrow (who doesn't trust himself to raise a little girl even if she's family) after Raven dumped her kid on him (who in this RWBY isn't Taiyang's birth daughter).

Frankly, I wonder if Yang was supposed to be Ruby's sister by blood instead of adopted or even just a friend of her family in the earliest draft of what became RWBY.

>I'm glad to have Neo back. Actually decent fight aside from a few horrible stops. They could have been real fluid with this one, but that would mean that RT would actually shill more money.

>Cinder gets the happy privilege of getting new threads that not even Neo gets any. Aside from Roman's hat. But that kinda proved that Rooster Teeth doesn't know how to design good original outfits post-Monty.

>Also, with Cinder being more desperate and more vengeful, won't she stop with trying to be a sex phone operator and actually emote harder? Fucking Nigri.

>The Farm thing, I can be interested in if they keep it around 3-4 episodes, because if they stay too long that's just gonna be like Volume 5 with more Scooby Doo.

> Though that also means that even with the very heavy and somehow exclusive lore infodump we got in ep3 , it won't change anything in the long run. It'll just reappear when Ozpin will be. GJ RWBY.

>Also hey, you get more SHIPPING! SHIPPING IS SO MUCH FUN!

>LOOK YANG STILL CAN'T GET OVER HER PTSD! LOOK LOOK LOOK! WE ARE LEARNING GUYS~

>Also I was right that Yang's new Arc will just be Blake's love interest Sharing her vengeance against Adam.

>Calling it now. Grim.

Like It's better than the past episodes forced Dramafest but… again… this proves that unless Ozpin returns to the picture, getting valuable and possibly forbidden information about the lore of RWBY isn't exactly a serious mind blown moment.

>>Also, with Cinder being more desperate and more vengeful, won't she stop with trying to be a sex phone operator and actually emote harder? Fucking Nigri.

Cinder doesn't have personality beyond slutty edgelord so Nigri only plays her as slutty edgelord.

>> Though that also means that even with the very heavy and somehow exclusive lore infodump we got in ep3 , it won't change anything in the long run. It'll just reappear when Ozpin will be. GJ RWBY.

I expected this subplot of RWBY losing faith in Ozpin to really change nothing in the long-run. Ruby won't let her team and uncle just bail out of their quest and stuff happen to make Ozpin stick with them and either say sorry or get trust again.

>Also I was right that Yang's new Arc will just be Blake's love interest Sharing her vengeance against Adam.

She has nowhere else to go short of either becoming Raven or joining Salem.

>becoming Raven, who last season was shown as a coward and a backstabber who had to be guilted into doing the right thing, and not even guilted correctly

The idea is that Yang becomes more hostile to continuing their journey since she's sure Salem can't be stopped and is too dangerous to fight. She starts out advocating abandoning civilians to the Grimm and ends up flat-out planning to desert. Ruby or some other teammate would catch her and they'd fight it out.

>Joining Salem, who just two episodes ago, was shown as the ultimate reason why Remnant is shit and will always be shit

The idea from 4chan's thread is that she goes a step farther than Raven did and says "Can't beat them? Join them!" since Salem is again too dangerous to oppose. There was talk about Mercury ditching Salem and replacing Yang but that was a joke I'm sure.

>She starts out advocating abandoning civilians to the Grimm and ends up flat-out planning to desert

As much as that will add actual character to Yang, I highly doubt it. Yang, in a sense, is already broken and she said she will defer to Ruby's judgment on things.

as for joining Salem, i think that's an even lesser chance of happening. While she fucking hates Ozpin's guts right now, she saw what everyone else saw and she knows the truth, which makes her a liability to Salem.

Don't forget to spoiler major stuff about the episode for a couple of posts.

> I love how Neo's clothes are a combo of her usual outfit and Torchwicks. Also kind of glad this may mean we don't get Torchwick alive for bullshit reasons. Though Neo surviving is barely credible.

> One of the best fights in a long time. Hope it keeps up. Now it just needs to have the escalation/crazy factor.

> Weiss' winter clothes are still fucking dumb.

> Surprised Qrow didn't already loot when he had a look round. But I guess after what he saw, it slipped his mind.

> Is it just me, or is Ruby's voice getting deeper? I know some folk don't like how high pitched it was, but I prefer it to episode 1 Ruby. I know Lindsy was pregnant during this, but I swore some of her lines were pitched up. Though it is growing on me. That or that it's subdued for a change.

> "No one else goes alone", and then they leave Oscar with the old woman. Oscar can fight better than her, but I'd still argue he's as much a non-combatant as the old woman. In fact, now Ozpin has checked out, he IS dead weight.

> If only Yang and Blake had something to cover their mid-rifs.

> I get Blake was joking, but a tractor could be ideal for the wilderness. In fact that seems to be the idea when they look at the trailer (as oppose to their actual plan). Of course, it's too rusted to run, and it's just a nitpick.

> No foley on Blake's footsteps as she ran up.

> I was almost gonna say Blake and Yang's resolution was too fast, but that comment right at the end was good. Maybe Yang telling Blake about her PTSD was a tad too soon, being she doesn't trust her to protect her, but I'm on the fence about it.

> That bike could barely go though the snow when Yang was pushing it, how the fuck is it gonna move with a trailer and all those people- even if they put chains on it for ad-hoc snow tires?

> Weiss seems to have more confidence in the plot that audience does.

Another good-ish episode. Again, the more action we get with sprinkings of plot, the better it is. If you write best in tiny windows, then write in tiny windows. Too much freedom is bad if you don't know how to use it (in writing).

> There's no way that that ricer is going to pull that trailer. Hook it up to the tractor: no one is going to question you in the snow.

> It's way too soon for Yang to even talk about her episodes given how she reacts to Blake saying that she'll protect her. Even admitting to her problem would have made her feel vulnerable, and she isn't prepared for others to see her as such.

> Qrow is an alcoholic. We, the writers, forgot, so now we have to remind you, the audience.

> Weiss: "Are we still going to Atlas?" What the flying fuck? This is the same shit. They signed up to be Huntsmen: basically something like forest rangers. They joined a cause that would NEVER have an end. EVER. Managing extremely hostile wildlife has unlimited job security, unless you plan on making that wildlife go extinct, which they never had any clue that they could ever achieve (when they joined). In addition: Salem isn't the source of the Grimm. She kind-of controls them, but they are still going to be around when she's out of the picture. The only reason that they should question going to Atlas is that it was for Ozpin, and they have no idea what he intended to achieve there, given that HE already knew that he couldn't kill Salem when he decided to go there.

Both Blake and Weiss have complained about being tired. So the monster in the wine cellar is probably a Grimm that makes people fall asleep. It could be the Semblance of one of the kids, but they would be dead by now.

I'm just sad the whole seeing flashes of the person before they mysteriously disappeared is being used for Adam when they could have done it with cinder seeing images of Roman (created by neo semblance) to lead up to their fight. The fight was good at least, except for the fact that it didn't sync with the music at all but that's to be expected from RT at this point.

She could have bought a new hat in a similar style. But that is an oversight IMO.

As for that bottom spoiler it makes sense. Sleeping Beauty is a fairy tale they haven't done yet, and with how heavily Qrow said "it's like they're sleeping and never woke up". I think some versions of sleeping beauty also had all the people in the castle/kingdom fall asleep as well (mainly the Disney version, since in the original I think they turned to stone?) I'm wondering if it's someone with the semblance to make others feel their emotions/condition. She's hungry, everyone's hungry, she's asleep, everyone is asleep. That still doesn't answer why the Grim (if the Grim has sleeping powers) didn't eat them and everyone else while they slept. They don't need to eat, but is it literally that they must cause chaos and pain as "beings of destruction"? Why is it OK for them to smash a building but not someone while asleep? When unobserved are Grim totally placid? Of course none of that matters if it's not a Grim causing the sleep (nearby Grim would not go to the homestead of people asleep since there is no negative emotion- depending on the canon if they don't hunt by sight and smell). Could be something as dumb as "yeah all the food and drink is infected with this sleeping mold/poison, the only cure is a plant in this mine with a nasty Grim in it, find it before you fall asleep gang!"

>Weiss: "Are we still going to Atlas?" What the flying fuck? This is the same shit. They signed up to be Huntsmen: basically something like forest rangers. They joined a cause that would NEVER have an end. EVER. Managing extremely hostile wildlife has unlimited job security, unless you plan on making that wildlife go extinct, which they never had any clue that they could ever achieve (when they joined). In addition: Salem isn't the source of the Grimm. She kind-of controls them, but they are still going to be around when she's out of the picture. The only reason that they should question going to Atlas is that it was for Ozpin, and they have no idea what he intended to achieve there, given that HE already knew that he couldn't kill Salem when he decided to go there.

That only shows that again, this subplot of losing trust in Ozpin won't change anything about the status quo much at all. They were already doing an apparently endless battle against the Grimm before learning Salem is immortal and beyond mortal's means to kill. They are still going to continue the quest since it's doubtful Ruby will let them bailout or join Salem. Even if Ozpin signs out for now, he'll show up again soon enough to either apologize or do something to get Ruby's posse to work with him again. So again, nothing.

I actually dislike the old lady being there for her 'role'. The 'role' she fulfilled should have been Ruby's to take on here. She's the optimist, the team leader, the hero. The smarter way to resolve it would be to have her take on the 'strong face' here, and then later on have a talk about how hopeless she feels with someone else - probably Jeanne, once the group meets up, but one of the mentor types like Qrow could work as well.

That's their best choreographed fight in a long while, but I'll be damned if I'm not sad that Neo is being set up to just act as Cinder's henchman. Hopefully she goes for the back-stab or something at some point later down the line.

Partial slashes for the things that I think will probably be acheived, at the rate things are going.

I also don't consider Adam taking his mask off to be complete until we see his face (which WILL be underwhelming because he only wears the mask so people care who he is and if he takes it off, it will be extremely painful… 4U ).

The Entire Episode… is just a buncha sad girls actually making fucking sense over what the fuck they were just infodumped a few episode ago… tonly to be from the Zombie Aura not because of their personal motivations. And the Zombies that supposed to be all about the horror gets fucking jobbed by the Silver Eye Bomb. Because we called it.

I am shocked with how they're actually asking the questions we all are. Almost makes it seem like they intentionally set it up, and I'm not used to them being able to plan so far ahead.

The Grimm's name is a little on the nose but I personally love the design, like how they're all slightly different. I'm surprised Ruby was actually scared of it for a time. Usually themes like this try to lean too heavily on metaphors for depression and become very schmaltzy very fast. It didn't here and I hope it continues (because RWBY and co have legit reasons to be miserable, as oppose to actual depression happening even if it's not so bad). And I fucking love how they explained Granny not seeing Ruby's silver eyes. Her short speech also helps explain why they should bother trying to save the day- because if they don't, people can be harmed here and now. That should have been a message they got back at Beacon, but still glad to hear it now.

Although, there are some minor issues. How the fuck did Granny get down the well?

The running away animation from the Grim at the start and as they left the house looked awful (running a short pace in a small place), and no one used covering fire on them. Not to mention running from the Grim could have set it up better if any form of combat was ineffectual, not just a few shots. Regenerating limbs or not flinching or reacting to anything- slow and inevitable advance.

The mocap didn't really sell how exhausted/tired they were either, it sort of lacked the "heaviness" when someone is just ready to drop. Same issue with Qrow's drunkeness now I think about it, not nearly "floppy" enough.

It's also kind of a hard sell that these grim are a threat when we've seen these people fight at such a break-neck pace. It implies they should also be able to retreat quickly as well. Semblance aside, everyone should have been able to out-run the Grim while not under it's effects.

I'm also surprised such a potentially lethal Grim was not more known about. These are a greater threat than any dragon or sea-serpent we've seen up to now. Also makes Granny's decision to toss the book fucking dumb. Although you could argue that with that "war on individuality" we've not been told about, they wouldn't want a repeat of it if info got into the wrong hands. Ironically the same argument they made about ditching the lamp (it's so slim anyone will find it, it won't be a problem for at least our time). As others say, they look like jobbers because they were never fought. Sure they're supposed to be weak, but draining someone of all willpower should make it more of a threat. Imagine if Dee and Dudley wound up traveling with the team, and got picked off by that Grim as they went to/were in the estate. Monsters are only scary when we know what will happen when they catch someone- and this is a rare case where showing is better than implying. Have those corpses have teeth and claw marks on them, but Qrow comments there were no defensive wounds. Build suspense by having someone talk about a rumor of the farm ("When the farm failed, they all turned to cannibalism!") to at least add some mystery and suspense to it all.**

It kind of makes me wish all Grimm had the potential to spread negative emotions as a power, beyond natural fear of them. I.e. A monkey like grim that taunts and teases, then strikes when the person is in a berserk rage. Or one that makes a person unable to see other humans- ramping up feelings of isolation and loneliness. Though that would probably limit you to like 10 different species.

Overall, an alright episode. Again, the less they address the plot and do anything but that seems to work best for them, as long as they aren't sitting around. Still some flaws.

I may have called it, but now I'm even more worried. We've seen the big monster, we've seen the "cave", we've seen why Torchwick's hat was in the intro, who the hooded woman was, why Qrow was sinking into misery, the blond woman- all the big stuff teased in the intro has been done. What's left? How many episodes have we got? In terms of what's been set up, there's no reason for the gang not to make it to just-outside-of-Atlas in the next episode.

After seeing that episode, I'm gonna post my own "fixes" for this volume so far. Will spoiler the latest episode, and unless I type otherwise, assume it's the same. I won't address stuff like animation (i.e. Dudley's arm looking more broken), stuff being answered now that should have been much earlier, and try to go by whatever the current continuity is.

> After getting his arm patched up, Dudley uses his Semblance to call a badly injured Dee to him. Both had teleportation related semblances one could move himself, the other could send anything to elsewhere), but one day they got "tangled up" using their semblance's at the same time, and now only have the power to bring one to the other. It has great potential for neat attacks, but they're still kinda useless.

> Dee and Dudley end up crashing with the crew (ending up on the wrong half of the train due to bumbling), and act as the audience surrogate to all the stuff with Djinn and occasionally comic relief for a while.

> The Djinn flashback plays out without commentary from her, letting Ozma and Salem + others talk. The gods have a bit more of a fight while reviving/killing Ozma.

> Salem is shown building up an army for generations- to the point the world has steam-punk technology, and it's implied she has the entire world on her side. Also show her snippets of talking to various rulers, and playing into what their culture or rulers desire (wiping out others, keeping loved ones alive, being the dominant force on the planet, survival, etc). The better tech then makes it more impressive when it does jack-shit to the gods. I.e. hit head-on by a magical mortar doing squat.

> When the GoD wipes out the world, the GoL is at least shown reaching out shouting no or turning away as his brother does it. He's not against it being done, just how it was done. I.e. He'd have rather abandoned them and moved onto another planet or peacefully killed them. The broken moon is shown to be more intentional, and a reminder to Salem and the next humanity of what happens when you are divided.

> The GoL is shown to be much more benevolent- not fighting his brother as it would have destroyed the universe and each other. Or go full blown Greek god tier and have him as arrogant, depends on if the end goals of humanity being united is supposed to surpass the gods or not.

> Salem and revived Ozma's reign is shown in more detail- trying to keep the people happy to stop grim attacks (they can deal with an assault of any size, but can't be everywhere at once). This includes letting people treat Faunus with scorn (because a few unhappy Faunus far outweigh the human population being frustrated of having to treat someone they don't trust fairly), use of plants like recreational drugs to prevent negative emotions, and even "The War on Individuality" Ozpin mentioned. This ends up with cult-like behavior (masks and cloaks so people can't be jealous of on another), and Salem says how without an identity people fill that with other things, like being the best worshiper of them. This also results in even more wars- now civil wars between factions of worshipers.

> Ozma & Salem's fight is shown in more detail, and the kids are more heavily implied to have fled and given the whole maiden rebirth spell, or died. Maybe even save this as a fight for the final episode and let the team "pause" the flashback since the wish is not fulfilled.

> The Great War is shown to have been started by Salem or a follower, killing an important person a'la WW1. This is during a meeting of important people as an incarnation of Ozpin tries to set up the Academies. Ozpin's next life is then of the young prince who eventually becomes the king who ends the war using one of the relics- the sword. Or another fancy fight scene with what his magic can do.

> After the flashback, Qrow and Blake's initial reaction is blind anger and being willing to kill Oscar/Ozpin. Yang and Blake hold them back- Yang is just as mad but doesn't want to harm Oscar, and Weiss sympathizes with Ozpin being in bad situations and doing bad things when manipulated by people they love. Before the fight escalates, Ruby puts an end to the fight, acting surprisingly leader-like, but not in a good way (playing the authority of being the leader). She says they're closer to Argus, and they'll meet up with JNR to discuss it further since they deserve to know what they just saw.

> Ozpin fades away, and Oscar wonders if he is gone. Qrow says he doubts it, but doesn't care if he did. Dee and Dudley are still a little shaken over everything they've seen, but reluctantly tag along since working together will be safer.

> Cinder's frozen body is shown shattering on impact with the water. The grim arm eventually thaws out and floats to the surface. It then starts to bubble and regenerate (maybe even cutting to Salem and having her eyes glow a little brighter, showing she may have some sort of mind-link to explain how she knows Cinder lived). Before we see more of it, Cinder bolts up as if waking from a nightmare. She's horrified to see her grim arm now goes up to her shoulder rather than her than her elbow. She gets her clothes, and uses her maiden powers to blast her way out of the rock (implied over the course of a long time if need be), or climb back up.

> When Little Miss reveals she knows about Cinder, she's blind-sided by (we assume) Torchwick attacking her. His fighting style seems a little different than usual, and Cinder eventually calls out that it's Neo using her semblance (her attacks are coming in shorter and she's moving too lightly to be Torchwick).

> The scene with Salem/Emerald/Hazel plays out mostly the same. Emerald blames herself due to her neuroses and Hazel tells her to be quiet and he'll handle it. Hazel initially tries to blame the correct source (RWBY, the Faunus, Raveb), but Salem says she wants to know who was responsible for them preventing any attempt to sneak or force the relic out. Hazel tries to blame Adam which only makes Salem angrier since "he's an animal that should be easily controlled". Hazel realizes she's looking for a subordinate to blame to set an example, and fearing for Emerald he takes the blame. Emerald steps in and blames Cinder. Salem then mock congratulates Emerald for learning to abandon her loyalties to Cinder, and scorns Hazel that next time he may not have a dead ally to pin blame onto.

> As RWBY travel a blizzard hits, making it almost impossible to see. They eventually find shelter and shake off exhaustion, but Dee has been separated from the pack. When Dudley teleports him back to them, Dee seems to be in a trance like state. His eyes are heavily blackened like he's exhausted, and when he can be bothered to speak he just says "It's fine". Dudley almost has to feed him by hand. They talk about what could have happened to him but no one is sure (unlikely to be poison, not like anything any known Grim could do, not to mention they prefer making people panic more, etc.) Talks about abandoning Dee are suggested, but quickly shelved out of decency.

> When RWBY find the Brunswick Farm, Dudley seems apprehensive. Once settled inside he explains how he heard an old rumor: The farm went bust, and the family turned to cannibalism. Some still roam the wilderness today, etc etc. Everyone palms it off and tells him he's stupid telling a story that'd scare people- right on queue for Weiss to find the dead bodies in the bedroom.

> Qrow looks it over and explains what's odd. While the wounds are consistent with a grimm (claws and teeth not like animals in that area), the room has no signs of a struggle, and the bodies don't have defensive wounds on their arms. If it was a Beowolf, Ursa, Manticore, etc. The whole room should be in pieces, and the bodies in a far worse state.

> As the team wind down for the evening after investigating, Dudley asks why they're going to carry on with their quest. While most of the girls initially make good arguments, counterpoints Dudley makes are readily accepted (because of the apathy). When comparing it to the fight against the grim in general, Dudley (out of his own apathy) explains how he quickly grew disillusioned. He compares it to gambling- how even if you have a 99.9% chance to win, you will eventually lose if you play long enough. A person will die on your watch, and there's nothing you could have done to stop it. Dudley says when Huntsmen get old enough, they either hold onto their naivety, or learn that they will never truly win. Hence why him and Dee took a more money focused approach. Since no one knows where Grim come from and the recent tragedy has only spiked their numbers, it seems humanity will never truly stop the Grim unless they have total peace like the GoL wanted. And war seems like something that'll always happen, even without Salem. If there's only 0.1% of people driving towards war, they just need to get lucky. Qrow doesn't say anything to disagree with him, but he does tell him to knock it off and sends him out on first patrol that night.

> Ruby asks Qrow if he's OK before bed, and he says he's fine etc. He then asks her how she's not angry (since his apathy has stopped him caring about her feelings as much). He doesn't get how she's not furious at Ozpin- being the reason Raven, him and the world is how it is. She says she is, but she'll deal with it later. She asks Qrow if Summer was ever involved with Ozpin and Salem. Before he can answer, they hear Dudley screaming outside. Everyone piles out to help, but they see nothing. Dudley says he saw red eyes in the blizzard, and everyone eventually palms it off on tiredness, hunger, and general creepiness of the place. Even the snow feels weird. Dudley is freaking out, and says he'd rather take his chance in the blizzard, Qrow snaps that that's fine.

> During the night we get a scene of the POV of something walking among the team as they sleep. It approaches Qrow, only for him to slightly turn in his sleep making the camera move back. It's attention then turns to Dee. (the grim only targets those who are totally apathetic and won't fight back)

> The next morning happens as the show does. When they ask where Dudley and Dee are, they assume Dudley was actually dumb enough to walk off into the blizzard and took Dee with him, or left early that morning. A few people say they don't care about them if they are going to risk their lives like that. As in the episode, the crew argue about if Dudley was right- abandoning the Lamp here and leaving it for another generation to worry about.

> When Ruby comes to her senses and freaks out, she explains things a little better. Everyone is getting the deep black marks around their eyes like Dee did, several comments made were kind of cruel/thoughtless, and they didn't cause the usual reaction (someone called Weiss spoiled and she let it slide, another said something unintentionally but still kinda racist about Faunus and Blake let is slide, etc).

> Each downplay it and Yang tries her best to calm Ruby down and say she's just not thinking straight. Ruby then accuses Yang of the same, and the camera moves to show she's holding Yang's hair or even managed to cut a piece off without her noticing (or it being shown to the audience for more surprise, a'la The Vision holding Thor's hammer). Yang seems genuinely surprised before trying to shrug it off. "You're family, i-it's different." She comes to her senses when she has another vision of Adam, very clear and very close. Blake asks what's wrong, to which Yang replies "I should be screaming right now but I just don't care." Yang agrees something is very wrong. Oscar agrees and says they need to see something. The reason the tire burst was because Dudley's mace was under the snow and it ran over one of the spikes on it. They dig out a bit more snow and find Dudley underneath- badly injured. He softly mutters "It's fine" before dying. This acts as the adrenaline/shock to get everyone back to their senses to get the Lamp back.

> Attempts to set up a rope to get down the well fail when the rope snaps as the last person goes down it. When Ruby finds The Apathy, they're eating Dee's body (showing as much as we can and keeping the age rating the same). Nothing seems to hurt them, and they slowly advance. They even attempt a sling-shot similar to what they did on the Nevermore (using Gambol Shroud as a slingshot, Ruby pulls it back, Weiss uses glyphs to hold it in place/speed up the release, and Yang is the "shot"). Despite hitting with tremendous force, the hole in the Apathy's chest regenerates. It then slowly looks up at Yang and exhales a snow-like breath. Instead of a scream, the Apathy use snow like spores to drain people of willpower. With enough of them, they can even make it look like it is snowing indoors, or a full blown blizzard. The gang are forced to run, gradually moving slower and slower. Maria (Grandma) reveals she used to be a Huntress, and jumps down the well to help when Oscar is paralyzed by indecision (asking for Ozpin's help and he does nothing).

> As the gang are close to the exit and struggling, Blake says her "It's fine" (making it a recurring line meant to evoke the emotions from earlier- concern and fear) and Ruby does some weak silver eye stuff. Maria teaches her how to do it, and she vaporizes the Grim down to puddles. Said puddles then begin to reform into something much larger. Maria removes her goggles and lets out a blast of light more akin to Season 3's finale, petrifying the grim into a statue of half-formed limbs.

> The books on Apathy say that while they are not powerful, they are nigh-indestructible and relentless. They prefer to attack people when they are in a state of total apathy and won't struggle- not that it'd do any good. On the way out, the gang discuss what to do with the book about the Apathy. Fearing it falling into the wrong hands vs. warning others. Ruby gives a short and curt answer to burn it, and that they'll tell the appropriate people. The episode having a theme of doing something now, planning for tomorrow, putting it off for tomorrow, and how it affects others. Still not sure whether burning the book or not is good myself. If they keep the book, have a stinger shot at the end of the edge of an Apathy just at the edge of frame by a tree as the gang drive off, implying there are more.

I just realized I never solved the problem about Apathy being OP. Not sure how to fix it either falling shy of that Grim usually lives deep underground and struggles to get to the surface, or some other hand-wave of "lol it's rare".

Honestly, I got too caught up in the Shadow Temple comparisons and forgot to ask it myself, but I want to rant about how RWBY got down the well, not just Granny. They jumped. Like if they had jumped over a wall or something. Not like twenty or thirty feet down that they had to have fallen. I realize that we have seen everyone fall from greater heights and land gracefully, but those were in fights. Monty fights. Not the new, more realistic, less cool fights that RT has made. When the show is not in a fight, and thus not subject to the rule-of-cool, characters are subject to OUR laws of physics. They could have survived going down the well in such a manner if it resulted in a gag (the JOKE thus negating physics), but no, they just kind-of hopped down. I would have accepted Mario wall-jumping down, but did we see that? No. And then there's Grandma. Seeing her wall-jump down would have been bad-ass, but out of character. Showing everyone sliding down a rope would have made sense, made sense for Grandma, and could have been turned into a cheap gag to release some of the suspense before piling on more.

So the enemies are Gibdos/ReDeads from finding them at the "Bottom of the Well", their paralysing scream, even down to their weakness to fire-based attacks. Odder still that both Weiss and Yang favour using Fire Dust which really should have made their underground adventure a lot shorter.

Precisely. Oscar is in a delicate position so his dialogue in these recent chapters is more critical than most in maintaining a sympathetic relationship with the audience. To have him state something blatantly & demonstrably false like that damages the relationship if not kills it outright. Though seeing who the "loremaster" for the show is a lie like this shouldn't surprise me.

>Weiss asks why they are going to Atlas and NO ONE CAN ANSWER.

It's not apathy, it's mind control. The whole scene points to it, particularly the sequence that led to Ruby dropping the relic down the well. While they have characters outright state things that sound apathetic at first the character's words in the scene clearly lead to Ruby doing something as opposed to doing nothing as should be the case if they were really becoming apathetic. A true scary apathy would have led to them not caring enough to do anything at all. Look at these characters behaviours: Qrow becoming more of a useless drunk, Calavera obsessively reading, Weiss desire to avoid going "home" to Atlas getting stronger, and Yang arguing about avoiding the Salem conflict by ditching the relic. Each of them obsessively does or worries about something. That's not apathy. WBY volunteering to help Ruby get the lamp back certainly isn't. If it were truly apathy then even the thought of Salem finding the relic should genuinely not matter to them at all. This whole chapter is like that. The words & actions of the characters make no sense in light of their supposed apathy. They shouldn't have even wanted to leave the farm, really.

I'll leave aside whether Qrow or Calavera were effected at all since they didn't seem to be and abandon this topic since I'm typing too much again.

Ditch the scroll lights. Hunters should have taclights that don't occupy their hands.

Weiss with Myrtenaster on her hip is stopped by a locked cellar door? Is this a joke?

What Calavera says has been Ruby's motivation from the beginning. So why was this little "focus" scene even necessary? Have Ruby's motivations changed since we'd met her in V1?

Debating how to take them referencing Blade II in this.

Be curious to know why Weiss would want these "Apathy" for a summon.

There wasn't enough room for Yang to run between Oscar and the cart. Did the cart disappear?

And unless there were hundreds of dead that we didn't see there's another problem. The water tunnels alone would have taken years to construct and more manpower to build than the story even hints was present.

The problem with Brunswick Farms finds its roots in the thinking that lead RT to release that flawed "Between Kingdoms" WOR before V4 where economics is never a motivator in establishing these settlements.

The only lasting effect of this chapter will be encouraging fanfic authors to create Lust Grimm.

My point with the statement about no one being able to answer is that, now that they've had their little break-up with Ozpin, none of them have any motivation to go to Atlas. Oz was driving them to Atlas. Oz was the only one with any fucking clue what they are going to do in Atlas. Without Oz, they have no reason to even go.

> The water tunnels alone would have taken years to construct and more manpower to build than the story even hints was present.

Honestly, it looks more like a city sewer than a well. That's not how anyone moves fresh water. Do the creators not know what a well is? I realize that it's gross when you think about it: dig a hole in the ground deep enough that water pools in it (that is, water seeps in from around the hole and the hole is deep enough to gather the water). There is water in the ground that feeds a well, no aqueducts necessary.

Understood your point. I was just using it to point out that going or not going to Atlas wouldn't matter to the characters if the scene were written consistent with the explanation we're provided later. Qrow is even more of a useless drunk, Yang is complaining like she was back in V6C2 (without the emotional heat but still), and Weiss saying she couldn't stop thinking all night sounds more like anxiety. Certain negative aspects seemed to intensify under the effects of the Grimm which conflict with the idea that they're supposed to be apathetic. Weiss' question shouldn't have been, "Why are we even going to Atlas?" It should have been, "Why are we even going anywhere?" It should have been a struggle for Ruby to keep them all from just laying there in the snow until they died.

>Fans of animated fantasy show RWBY can look forward to plenty of monster-mayhem in the web series’ new episode, which premieres Dec. 8 on Rooster Teeth. In a just-released exclusive clip, the character Maria is seen fighting a Nevermore Grimm, a flashback to Maria’s past, and an explanation of why she used to go by a different name, “The Grimm Reaper.”

Basing her motif on the grim reaper- it makes sense. Even her still using momentum based stuff to aid the weapon does.

What doesn't is why another silver-eyed person uses scythes and long cloaks. If anything, since the eyes petrify/vaporize, the weapon should be something that'd effectively herd Grimm into one place and bind them down. More kills per-flash. If Ruby could master her speed, she could be deadly against the Grimm with an Acme Glue-Gun. Or even just bolas.

Well, the city looks good. Better than any other place shown in the entire show. Why they couldn't do this for whatever the capital city was last season I don't know. I also like the pacing. So far there hasn't been as much down time as in other seasons. There's a fight in each episode more or less, but still room for quiet moments. If anything at least that improved.

On a different note:

>lesbians

RT sure are greedy to collect the woke tokens aren't they? Can't wait for them to deflect criticism as homophobia.

> Neo becomes a crony for Cinder. Possibly she will be the Villain of the Season.

> The Grimm fight was slow as fuck and not the main fight of the show. The Main fight was… actually they are improving (somewhat) on the fight choreogpraphy but tend to miss the point involving beinng fluid and having the fight matter.

> Maria’s Backstory is so anticlmactic. But I do like that they got to talk about famous huntsman. Sadly the hints of the Grimm Reaper being popular or once popular are just in the limits of that scene. And how her overconfidence had her lose her SEB and huntsman status that she doesn’t even state she used or abused.

> Points for having a Crocodile Faunus be based on the one in Peter Pan.

> ”Teach me how to make my win button even winnier!”

> Damn they are already in Argus?! This show is getting pretty fast. Maybe one episode to fucking digest what the fuck is going on before new infodumps are in the table.

> And the new potential ships are on board because that is how RT goes, son.

> I will admit Argus is pretty and has its own culture. Sucks it’s based on San Fransisco.

> And we got the LGBT Token of the season. So token that her name is legit based in the ultimate Lesbian poet, Sapphos.

> Wait they are in Atlas, right? And in Ironwood’s Atlas, Gays were supposed to be in concentration camps or some shit. What gives?!

> Of course the wife and the kid are black. Make them Faunus too maybe?! You filthy degenerates.

> Jaune’s family photo might brig in the Loud Housefags.

> All that siblingness in that episode that you all wish Ruby and Yang should have!

> And the next episode will definitely be involving that tower… right?!

Overall, like I wanna like that they wanna have a fast pace, it’s just that there is too much stuff going and infodumps being pushed on us that in the end we just don’t have time to digest everything.

Plus, again… the entire Ultimate Oz Infodump (That is how I call it now) is just gonna exist when Oz will inevitably come back. None of what I see is rewarding or giving a payoff. Again, just give us time to digest what the hell they got and maybe it wont be as bad.

> Really liked the idea behind the croc from Peter Pan. Shame she wasn't in the modern era, or associated with the existing Peter Pan character (though TBH Scarlet didn't exactly stick in anyone's mind). It was only the little thing (why a time limit on her powers?) but it generated more intrigue than the real mysteries. Imagine having her instead of Tyrion. Tyrion just laughs. Croc-Girl has to keep to strict timing when she uses her powers, but also is hyper-aggressive and cocky. That opens up a lot more potential than "he's nuts and sadistic". Not to mention the lemotif of a ticking clock for her theme would have been so fucking cool to hear every so often. Not sure if her design could have been more croc-like, but it's hard to pull off while still having a human face.

> What shocks me more is how short Maria is compared to her flashback. Yes old ppl shrink but there's a limit. Maybe her gravity powers are sucking her into herself.

> If we had build up to the Grimm Reaper this might be more interesting. A throw-away sentence here isn't quite enough. Imagine if Ruby explained being brought up on stories about her, and she idolized a literal legend- even if she had no idea she really existed. Idealistic and a little naive. And Qrow is symbolic of losing faith in legends and ideals. A throw-away scene or sentence a few seasons ago has more impact when it pays of 5 seasons later, not 5 seasons after. Shit like this is why I really do think Monty's Bible was either half-done or abandoned altogether.

> Wait, if it's not Salem's crew after Maria, who the fuck was it and why? Sure less Grimm = less bandit raids getting a free clean-up, but it's not like someone's gonna CSI every burnt down shit-shack in the woods. In fact, having Maria know about Salem would probably have been better, and explained why she was so "meh" about Jinn. Maybe even a past Ozpin knew her or something. In fact, since Maria can't fight, she should be chomping at the bit to teach Ruby- unless, again, there are forces out to get her that Maria knows about. Which also makes no sense since "Huntsmen fight to the end" Despite that, I still do like the sentiment of her regret and being proud of others.

> Why was Ruby surprised Jaune made it to Argus? The way she said it made it sound like he got all the way to Atlas, or Argus wasn't a city

> I never thought they could make San Fransisco look good. Even the lore is logical, and showing the city in motion without 2D was great. Shame they ruin it later with the 2D photo.

> Coalburner alert. Wouldn't bother me if I didn't know exactly what the studio was likeand why coalburning is pushed.but the fact the first mixed-couple baby we meet and the dad is no where to be seen makes me laugh. Good job progressive company!

> I'm shocked Jaune's family isn't still all under one roof. I guess it's better than meeting an Arc in every arc.

> I actually really like the comic relief animation here with the eyes and arms. Very well animated. Even if a baby should not be smart enough to pout at that age

> LESBIAN COALBURNING?!

> OK, despite what I said earlier I ain't so hard on gay relationships (not like you're gonna have a kid anyhow, just don't be degenerate), but now I just realized they adopted the little tyke or he's from the mixed/latino girl's earlier relationship. Meaning they either had a TON of luck to find a baby the same shade as the dark girl, or the dark girl also had a dark boyfriend to make that color of baby.

> But yeah, subtle as a brick as always progressive company. There wasn't even a single "Oh!"- not a rude one, just a genuine surprised reaction. There was still the split second pause to hammer in how accepting everyone is. Even from Weiss- who had the most sheltered up-bringing of all. With her new acceptance of the world outside of Atlas, she didn't do the over niceness like some do when they don't know how to act around a gay couple. No one except bad people consider the gays as outside the norm in Remnant. Hell, maybe even they don't! "Wow, I may want to enslave humanity, but at least I'm not a homophobe!"

> At least it's not Bumblebee or someone else in the main cast being forced. Problem is now we know it's pushed in other media- when does it not feel forced? Even if there weren't (((other))) reasons for it, it gets old fast with how its been pushed by other media. Doesn't matter if it's a genre or a type of character or whatever- if others do it too much and poorly, your work will suffer when you try it. Unless it is exceptional and standard-breaking.They are a cute couple for now though.

> I like how Qrow can feign professionalism and polite conversation. Proves how he got by and isn't just a perma-brooding drunk.

Apart from some plot holes and agenda pushing I actually liked it. Probably missing more plot-holes with how Atlas is handing this dual-controlled city just before war breaks out but that's for next ep. RT can do comedy, even slice of life stuff, and they're getting better at action. They just can't do drama (though I am only judging from this as I've not seen other serious productions like Day 5) and big overarching plots. They are getting better bit by bit.

I didn't even see that theory- but I like it a lot. Makes even more sense if it could kill the GoD. Magic/Maidens is from GoD and kills GoL. Silver-eyes are from GoL and kill GoD)- Salem's plan could be to bring them forth and kill them so she can rule truly unopposed (even though she could do that if the gods never came back) and revenge.

Thinking why Salem not killing Ruby herself, it either a dumb decision or maybe the SEW is none of her concerns and only focus on the relics. Croc girl might have the right idea, and tbh she would be more interesting Tyrian.

The writers really want Cinder to come off as an idiot here. Who can take her seriously anymore? She obsessed over Ruby for 2 volumes until they were finally in the same room when she developed a selective amnesia. Cinder was under orders not to kill Ruby but Salem said nothing about not harming her. Tyrian was going to poison Ruby back in V4 and all Salem told him to do was bring her back alive. Neo should never have been brought back for this nonsense. It was insultingly stupid writing that removed her from the show with a "Mary Poppins" joke. It's the worst sort of pandering that brought her back.

So they've now established that the legendary "Grimm Reaper" has trouble taking down the same kind of Giant Nevermore that a bunch of kids took out back in V3. Repeating that stupid moment from V3 where all the characters are posing on top of a stunned Giant Nevermore which then wakes up and they have to kill it. Here they have a legendary Huntress make the same mistake as a bunch of students and she has to cover for that blunder by flashing her Silver Eyes to save herself. Then what was the purpose of that pep-talk from the last chapter where Calavera tells Ruby, "Don't think about them. Think about the people who love you. Focus on the thought of them, the way they make you feel. Focus!" We're supposed to believe in the middle of her "Oh, shit!" moment she's thinking of the people she loves and not just saving her own ass because it would be really embarrassing if the Legendary "Grimm Reaper" were killed by a Nevermore in the middle of nowhere.

Not having Calavera's eyes visible while she's wearing the mask was a mistake.

And being in the middle of nowhere makes the lead-in to this next section ridiculous. Unless one of these people has a probability semblance there's no way they could be waiting here to ambush Calavera. It also struck me as strange that the enemy is wielding two long swords when her personality and the explanation of her powers would scream for her to carry one blade, an executioner's weapon. Something so scary looking that just her unsheathing or hefting it would make her opponent want to flee. Makes me think the just blundered into giving Winter a rapier and dagger. The fight while flashy was, in the end, let down by the writing and choreographic inconsistency as the screenshot of the tweet I posted shows. Opponents who are invulnerable don't worry about blocking, dodging, parrying or jumping about like Tock did. She fights like Tyrian. Then we get the odd moments where a killing blow by Calavera's scythe is dramatically deflected by Tock's Aura only to later have a simple kick knock her back. Tock's little trick, stupid though it is, should've made her the Juggernaut, an unyielding, unstoppable force that Calavera could only hope futilely to keep her distance from until time ran out. The henchmen should've only engaged Calavera if she tried to run which would've been inevitable since her opponent was temporarily invulnerable. And Tock repeatedly kicking Calavera away doesn't fit with her goals either. The last thing she should want to do is make any distance between the two of them which would only waste her time. Couple that with those times where Tock just stops attacking for no reason and the fight just can't maintain it's own coherence.

The finale of the fight is the usual problem Kerry has had with integrating bits he wants to do. Instead of Calavera setting things up while Tock is talking, so the ending when she recalls her weapon is smooth, there's an awkward pause where Tock stops just long enough for Calavera to grope blindly for her weapon and then kill Tock.

Tock dropping her aura before her opponent is dead is a stupid contrivance especially since it's a function of what she did with that clock.

Because Calavera's backstory was so lacklustre it also feels insulting that she's the progenitor of the scythe/guns used by Ruby and Qrow. Knowing that lessens them somehow. And why does Qrow's hair look like it's pulsating instead of blowing in the wind? Looks like they stretched Calavera's neck to get her model to be able to look over its shoulder like that. Ruby has nothing to learn from this dried up mummy.

I've got nothing to say about Remnancisco. It got the kind of intro that Anima's capital, Haven should have gotten last volume. Getting the writing done early has its benefits. We just had a sitting around and eating moment in V5C7, I hope this isn't becoming a pattern.

I'll give them credit for letting Calavera wear shorts under her dress though.

Let this tweet thread stand as proof, along with his early description of Yang as a "party girl", that Luna's writing doesn't communicate what he thinks it does. While the concept was sound the execution was ass-backward. Farming is passion. Farmers are very driven people. That he had Bartleby cause his own death by knowing what these "Apathy" were and actively seeking to use them undermines the message of this story he's waited years to tell. Luna even references Serenity in his explanation as a recent inspiration and still manages to screw up his telling.

How come those two dumb-fucks aren't the TweedleDee and TweedleDum reference? It also totally undercuts the military might of Atlas when these are their best and brightest. Not to mention not knowing Weiss. You could still have your comic relief though.

> Gang goes through more and more desperate explanations, explain they know Ironwood, they don't buy it.

> Weiss speaks up and they still don't buy it until they check some photo to prove it's her, then they fall over one-another to be nice to them.

I don't disagree that M&K executed it wrong, but I can see the trail of logic Bartlby used to get the Grimm. He's desperate, fear is making it dangerous to get shit done, and he may not just lose the farm but family and friends. Easy to see how an Apathy or two could be rationalized as harmless.

Rather than a man doing something desperate (and dumb) to save the farm, he could have made the comparison to the horror of depression more direct.

Have the farm being attacked by Apathy- not just picking off workers one by one, but slowly making them apathetic until they don't keep up with the farm work. They eventually become broke & starving until their own natural apathy plus what the Grimm are doing just causes them to lay down and die/wait to be mauled. Instead of a place ravaged by terrible actions in (we assume) a few days, how the Grimm chipped away at their resolve for far longer until it all came crashing down. Which one sounds more like depression?

Though I will emphasis- that's all personal taste, and the core concept was good. Out of all the discussion for how to fix the episode, very little of it is about the concept of the Apathy- more it's design or how people reacted to it.

Cinder has always been a flat, unappealing edgelord once you ignore the waifufaggotry. The showrunners killing off Roman when they did since they were concerned about how popular he was shows this since Cinder is such an unappealing villain that Roman had to die so that the stronk womin didn't get upstaged. It would have been best if Raven killed her for real instead of the obvious fake-out.

There's only really 2 ways Cinder can go:

>She overthrows Salem once Dastardly Witch Mom sees the error of her ways and becomes the final final boss

>Have the farm being attacked by Apathy- not just picking off workers one by one, but slowly making them apathetic until they don't keep up with the farm work. They eventually become broke & starving until their own natural apathy plus what the Grimm are doing just causes them to lay down and die/wait to be mauled.

And if he'd followed his own reference examples then or as you laid out he'd have avoided contradicting his premise. It was such an easy set up that I don't get how he messed it up like he did.

>Out of all the discussion for how to fix the episode, very little of it is about the concept of the Apathy

I still largely disagree with the concept of having Grimm with these powers exist. It seems to cross a line somewhere and open doors to things they shouldn't. I may well be wrong to see it that way but something about it just feels off. It's like the problem of certain semblances. With the example of what Ren and Jaune pulled off publicly on the train in V6C1, I don't see how students with their "unique" semblances wouldn't be drafted to a Kingdom Defence Squad or Search & Rescue Team.

>Did he really say that? That sounds more like a meme version based on the "blondes are sluts" meme (one spread by less desirable women and less desirable males).

He's said it on official commentaries, in interviews, at cons, and those words even made it to the product description on Amazon. Granted he says it in the context of Yang at first seeming to be a party girl but later you see her as someone with a more caring & maternal nature but he forgot to actually write the misdirect. It's that disconnect between intent and execution again.

>You're talking about a kingdom that we're told is the most hostile to Faunus yet:

>A. Lets one of them represent it in an international competition with no mentions of her being a special exception like Jesse Owens.

>B. Same Faunus talks about partying with humans like it's something she does easily in Atlas.

>C. We're later told about Ilia having to hide her heritage in an Atlas school which serves to make that funky faunus fit even worse.

There is one far too easy answer for it all. Neon could say she was putting on a brave face since she has endured crap (her attitude being it's easier to party and distance yourself from what you are to have a better life, or she's trying to unite people and faunus in her own way- by showing how fun and friendly Faunus can be).

The other way being the only people who hate Faunus in Atlas are the elite, while the lower class are "all in it together"- as is typical for the liberal view of racism. Although not entirely untrue in individual cases where the "outsider" gets along with the community, and the upper class still see them as the same as their worst and "need to be helped" (used).

Instead I bet we'll get FNKI (or just Flynt and Neon) either reluctantly working for Atlas, or Neon lost her job/status/freedom due to security reasons. "Doesn't matter how much you act like they want you to, they'll always betray you! Now go back to making rap music Neon, I'd like to invest my sheckles into your career."

Not to mention it's odd how a Faunus doesn't whip her head around at the mention of the surname Belladona. Imagine if Ironwood was competent:

> Season 3 has Blake find Neon despondent or crying after losing and getting chewed out by Ironwood.

> She's worried she's just a token Faunus for Atlas. "I'm not a huntress, I'm the Faunus girl."- Highlighting how rare it is when you could describe her like that and not mix it up with anyone else.

> Blake almost says she doesn't get how being treated better because of who you are is as bad as being treated poorly, before she catches herself and sympathizes more. She somehow get to talk to Ironwood about Neon. "Hm? Ah yes the Faunus girl, please sit." ~ Same sentence, but not said with malice. Important in showing how you can interpret malice where there is none.

> Ironwood reveals he knows Blake is Ghiras daughter. Rather than arrest her he just wants to "talk". Ironwood basically says how he doesn't care about Fauns stuff, he just makes calculations. Whoever would make the best huntsmen or what sort of people are likely to cause problems in the Kingdoms. We also see hints he isn't happy with how Faunus are treated in dust mines, and it's more that both them and the military need the Schnee Company to survive.

> After some verbal jousting about Faunus stuff, he reveals he was testing her resolve in an argument. Since Blake wasn't afraid to hold back, but still mostly kept her cool, he's willing to offer her a job when she graduates. He's faux subtle that Blake will probably end up undercover in the White Fang and other Faunus groups, to help prevent bloodshed. Blake is a little conflicted, but says she'll think on it since she has until graduation.

> After she leaves, it's revealed either Neon was in on the plan to lure her in, or Ironwood was deliberately heartless and played a gambit to make Blake come to him.

The only point I learned from your post is that faunus "racism" should have never been introduced. Giving a wacky character like Neon some dark past just so she can fit in the same country as an uppity dyke named Ilia (whose parents are DEAAAD) shows that.

They should have just made the White Fang an army of mercs who were founded in Faunusland by Blake's parents. Adam takes control and moves the WF into a more brutal direction. Blake leaves and heads to Beacon.

Qrow not transforming into a bird when it would have been useful after V6C1 bears mentioning. There wouldn't have been any directionless wandering (C4) and they wouldn't have been surprised to see how close they were to Argus (C7) if Qrow had just gotten a bird's eye view of the area. Would've given him something useful to do other than sit there on that cart like a dried up, old gunny sack.

Well, to be fair, wasn't she and everyone else back at the ranch, under the influence of those grimms? So we can't really say that Yang was being fully genuine, but regardless, I agree with you on everything else.

This is the problem that I and many others always had with rwby, other than the """plot""", was the lack of goals for the characters. Honestly, if more characters actually had their own independent goals separate from the """plot""", then we woulnd't be in this mess we are in right now. Because like you said, everyone doesn't know what to even do right now, other than to try and go to Atlas for a cause that they themselves hardly believe anymore anyway.

I had hoped that the ranch episodes would bring an answer to that the hell RWBYJNPR was supposed to do next after the Jinn reveal, instead the ranch episodes turned out to be filler and the legitimate questions raised were waved away as Grimm influence, only to be postponed to this episode again which still doesn't try to fucking answer it and instead tries to distract us with other secondary plot threads.

Something as essential as character goals and the plans to accomplish them isn't just something that can be procrastinated. It's incredibly frustrating to see the characters (other than Ruby, for once) come to a complete standstill, and answers to vital questions be postponed over and over. We're seeing more of the world and we're getting more backstory, but none of that is really connected to the main plot or main characters (aside from, again, Ruby), which looks especially more silly considering the bloated size of the main cast.

I'm not saying that a moment like this of rediscovering your goals should never occur in a story, but it should not take over four episodes of the main characters meandering about doing fuck-all to rediscover their goals while we get distracted by random secondary plot threads.

And all the melodrama is over something that had little impact on what they were doing already. Ozpin made no promises to end Salem. Qrow NEVER mentioned doing so was important to his service. And his action with the rest of his posse besides Ruby's more or less shows they not only don't really care much about the safety of others outside their little spheres but Qrow isn't really ashamed of his background as a bandit shaking down townsfolk.

< I expected Winter, so whoever the fuck this is was unexpected. Which is good.

< How does she not understand that the purpose of that outpost is the maintenance of trade, and that it is purposeless with a closed border? Atlas should be fucking off, leaving the people of Argus to die.

< At least they are now consistent with the "Qrow is a drunkard" theme.

< Fucking fuck. The same complaints all over again: no one should care that Salem can't be killed. Put her in a goddamn box and drop it in the fucking ocean. Problem. Solved. And she didn't even die. This is so contrived.

Did you really get angry pointing out how retarded your style was, after weeks?

>does she not understand

Ahge Uu Be Are Aye Es

>Put her in a goddamn box and drop it in the fucking ocean

Immortality problems are new ideas not theorized in this universe, it is unfathomable. In our universe, were creativity and ingenuity evolved us as top prey, allowed us to question Eternal life, so much, we are medically reaching that point. Ironically, this questions was first sought in the Epic of Gilgamesh, and answered in the Thousands Arabian Nights with malicious Djinn. You have to contextualize "what characters and the status quo" actually is on their universe, not ours.

We are godless, they have 2 gods that left, and a judgement. I don't want to rant more about ethos.

>Ruby's first response isn't "My mother had silver eyes."

You really are an idiot.

Tell me, when you were 15, did you really think "Oh, my Dad had X eyes, and my Mom Y hair, so I must be adopted?"

Take a moment.

Ruby is 17, under a lot of stress, seeking guidance from an elder, and in a difficult position.

Can you really imagine yourself 17 being responsible for keeping everyone and everything together?!?

Place yourself in the characters role,of course that thought didn't even register. She was thinking "How do I lazer Grimm!" Not "What does this all mean? Did my dead mom that I barely recall even had silver eyes and also shot Grimm lazers?!?"

This scene is actually well done, two or three things off.

That Yoda mind thing is going to be difficult for Ruby to theorize, achieve, and maintain, she's never had mental training, she's the youngest before Oscar.

Surprised they didn't make the short woman a Captain Hook reference- have her bitter to Maria since she didn't save her hand in time. Still, I do like she's the first Atlas person to act like what we've been told Atlas is like. Even if she does have ideas far above her station. They took a comic scene that could have been much more heavy- her saying Atlas is happy to go to war is a big deal.

Even though the "we can't win" pity party sucks, I do like Jaune's frustration and anger considering he lost Pyrrah. Shame that no one else really leaps to their feet to hold him back from pummeling a child. On a very minor note, seems weird he'd go upstairs afterwards as oppose to out of the house.

What bugs me more is that it's a simple answer even the writers can't put to paper.

Salem is a never ending force- that will keep pushing. Though sheer odds, there will come a time when she gets all the maidens, and can get all the relics. So if you gather them up yourselves, you can hide them better. Less protection, but more obscuring. Put them in the hands of decent Huntsmen to keep moving with them until you get world peace. Then if the Relics come together, it's no biggie.

It's a very long term goal (and may not even work depending how effective Salem's spy network/grim orbs/magical scrying are)- but a perfect allegory for the fight against the Grimm and something Ozpin should have mentioned in his speech to the students.

The Grimm are a never ending force- that will keep pushing. Through sheer odds, there will come a time when they kill people despite a Huntsmen's best efforts. So you keep fighting, encouraging working together, until a solution for destroying or negating all Grimm is found.

>Put her in a goddamn box and drop it in the fucking ocean. Problem. Solved.

<Immortality problems are new ideas not theorized in this universe, it is unfathomable.

Issue is we don't know the extent of her powers. Either she has some magic left or Grimm powers (glass shattering scream, giant castle, ability to give other people Grimm parts). Because we know so little of the rules of magic or Grimm, we don't know what would or would not work.

I.e. Can she a get sea-serpent Grim to break her out of that box via Grimm-control-telepathy? If Ozpin uses his last bit of magic or someone with a teleport semblance sends her into orbit, she wouldn't die in space- but would have no means to get back to earth (unless she has magic/force of will).

And they're not too impossible to consider. I refuse to believe with what Oz and Salem did, no story or myth of an immortal exists in Remnant. It's not like where we'd be cautious about wishes due to the many wish-granting stories we have, the Grimm gives every culture on that planet the same idea- how do you stop something that doesn't stop coming? Stories of being able to banish or lock-away an unstoppable foe are sure to rise in that setting.

Logically there should be nothing wrong with (assuming you could get close enough) restraining her and throwing her in the Remnant equivalent of the Mariana Trench, with a constant contingent of ships surrounding it to depth charge and torpedo anything that gets close. But the writers have given her no weaknesses. She can manipulate anyone, and survive any attack. In fact her only downside is who she's using to help her cause- they're all perfectly human. Which opens up the can of worms on why she doesn't lead the assaults (other than it risking uniting everyone against her, but that's an acceptable risk compared to letting RWBY get the relics). In fact, I wonder if she's intentionally getting people who are useless so RWBY does all the hard work and she can snatch the relics from them when they have them all- in true JRPG fashion.

And going back on those ideas to stopping Salem- why not do that to a Relic? Send it into a volcano or depths of the ocean. By the time you could retrieve them you will probably have world peace.

There's only one question from Djinn left, but it seems to be worth it to ask "How do we stop Salem?"

>Did you really get angry pointing out how retarded your style was, after weeks?

Nah, you're just being a nit-picky faggot nigger. Callin it like I see it.

> Ahge Uu Be Are Aye Es

Yeah, but I still think that Atlas still should be considering fucking off due to the lack of economic reason to continue the mission. If anything, Atlas' presence in Argus is proof that they still want peace.

And to nitpick, I don't voice that fricative, so I would spell it Eheetsh. The 'A' sound is a slur from an eh to an ee, and 'ch' is a t sh consonant pair. And then the 'I' sound is a slur from ah to ee.

> it is unfathomable

That's bullshit. If you've bothered to formulate the word "immortality" then the concept is fathomable to your society.

> Tell me, when you were 15, did you really think "Oh, my Dad had X eyes, and my Mom Y hair, so I must be adopted?"

No, but I still think that it would be the first thing for Ruby to think about, asked the generic question "What do you know about silver eyes?" I'm actually expecting her to have less of her shit together than she does. Watching it again, you are right about her mindset through the whole conversation, as the question is more along the lines of "What hearsay do you know about people with silver eyes?", but I'm still upset that she doesn't mention it to grandma.

>remember, throwing Jafar to god-knows-where was considered a good-enough resolution for Aladdin 1

To further clarify this remark: as Huntsmen, they mitigate forces of nature. They manage wildlife. Throwing Salem into the ocean, or locking her into a vault like one of the relics were, is a long-term mitigation strategy. No, they can't defeat her, but they can manage her like they manage the Grimm (which apparently some now have special powers that would require special management). At which point, Salem would be reduced to the trope of a Demon Lord who returns periodically and has to be fought back again. I am disappointed that people who were supposed to be trained to manage and mitigate hostile wildlife for which they had no solution are despondent that they cannot solve yet another hostile wild animal.

Should have let Jaune shit on Oscar to at least expand on deep down Jaune blames Ozpin for Pyrrhas death.

Anime writing 101

>Jaune loses it pins oscar to the wall

>Ren or Qrow picks up their hand to stop the others from saying something

>Jaune goes on some triad that Ozpin is to blame for everything all his schemes all his plans over the centuries have been nothing but complete and utter failures

>Get the point of tears and says he hates him for what did Pyrrha and he was the one who killed her the moment he asked her to become a maiden and says he was gonna send Ruby on the same path for some pointless battle he barely knows how to fight

If by empathy you mean that I think all other humans are functionally retarded, then, no, I don't have empathy.

> "Salem can't be killed?!?"

Your whole argument is sophist bullshit. In our world, no one is immortal. We imagined gods that were "immortal", but it was a though experiment. Your argument is that just because real gods existed in their world, that magically they would not contemplate the ramifications of immortality. They are surprised that Salem can't be killed because they have never met anything that could not be killed (just as you or I would be). And because they've never met anything that couldn't be killed, they would have a list of horrible, inhumane ways to kill someone that would also deter an immortal being for a fair period of time.

The huntresses should know well that Grimm have been around for many many many years. Salem being immortal and unkillable by mortals has little impact on what they were doing and where they were going. This is forced drama to setback RWBY after recent losses for the villains. Especially Ozpin knowingly putting civilians at risk got a far smaller overreaction.

>Shame that no one else really leaps to their feet to hold him back from pummeling a child.

Nobody tried to object about how Qrow punched Oscar and otherwise abused him besides Ruby. By this point, it looks like only Blake and Ruby among their posse with Jaune's have something like an honest desire to protect more their immediate spheres. Considering Blake's past, she should see where Ozpin is coming from (trying to help only for your efforts to end in disaster from those you help being overly shortsighted or falling into beasts, needing to lie since you fear rejection).

>Jaune goes on some triad that Ozpin is to blame for everything all his schemes all his plans over the centuries have been nothing but complete and utter failures

Except they weren't. Humanity is still alive and not enslaved or destoyed by Salem. Pyrrha made her choice and still chose to fight when she could have retreated. If Ozpin was better written he'd say that and also that Qrow should be grateful that he gave him a life that doesn't end in him being dead in a ditch or squatting in a tent.

Yeah, the hatred of Ozpin is so forced, guy did literally nothing wrong yet the other characters treat him like he's almost as evil as Salem because he didn't want to crush their hopes by telling them that Salem is nearly impossible to kill.

Shit, the only reason humanity is even still alive is most likely because of Ozpin.

>Yeah, the hatred of Ozpin is so forced, guy did literally nothing wrong yet the other characters treat him like he's almost as evil as Salem because he didn't want to crush their hopes by telling them that Salem is nearly impossible to kill.

The only thing like a mistake he made when traveling with RWBY was not telling the relic was dangerous and that he had something to tell them about it but had to wait until it was safe to talk. He might have also tried to discourage interest in Jinn by telling RWBY ahead that it answers all questions but only a few times an era and has been already used so they should only save it as a last resort.

Otherwise he acted well considering human behavior and Salem's might. He might have been better off if he didn't bother letting humans make choices when it's against what the gods would want and go full god-emperor. Or just researching means to compel obedience in say, Qrow.

>Shit, the only reason humanity is even still alive is most likely because of Ozpin.

Humanity's reached the point to produce technology to fend off grimm. He surely enabled that to happen, and all without lording over humans as their god.

Again, Ozpin just taking some kids and a manbaby whining at him then running away into Oscar instead of telling them to know their place then telling Qrow he can just go crawl back to his deadbeat sister is weak writing. Someone who fought in such a long war without curling in the fetal position today should have more fortitude. This can only be salvaged if the kiddies and Qrow all admit they were being babies or Ozpin writes them off as failures, hijacks Oscar since he's acted against him, steals the relic, and runs off to start anew or begin work to summon gods back.

>Salem being immortal and unkillable by mortals has little impact on what they were doing and where they were going. This is forced drama to setback RWBY after recent losses for the villains. Especially Ozpin knowingly putting civilians at risk got a far smaller overreaction.

I think you'd find everyone is well aware of this, and mostly agrees, including me.

I'm just observing the execution of this episode, and the lack of empathy of someone that cannot immerse themselves in another universe with other rules and world ideas.

You'd think "spaceships and lazers" would be ridiculous, but wait until you read Grimm, dust, Faunus, Magic, etc., you'd be called a lunatic in our world.

Oh, I agreed. But in Spain there's this whole swordsmanship class of arts, and if we go by Caribbean pirate martial arts, Croc-Captain Hook starts reading more familiar, and more that wild style. Though in our world dual sword styles have been proven ineffective. I already discussed how Croc should have fought and handled situations with her semblance. I think everyone agreed it was stupidly written, and executed.

Zorro the masked swordsman should come to mind here.

Although Shinobi kidnapping should have been her style.

Just imagine if teens had ideas on how to go to war with an unstoppable force, and with people and resources that don't want to cooperate and help. You'd find a very realistic world, similar to ours. We can't all be Thanos with an infinity gauntlet, now can we?

what bothers me is how nobody even stopped to ask whether it's necessary to kill Salem instead of considering other options, especially after it's been made clear that she can't be killed to begin with, after everyone is shown her history and that she is/was human (albeit twisted), and none of these shrimps even having killed an actual human being before

I think part of it can be attributed to everyone blindly following Ozpin's "master plan", though it only makes the main cast appear more foolish and less capable of introspection

>Ozpin just taking some kids and a manbaby whining at him then running away into Oscar instead of telling them to know their place then telling Qrow he can just go crawl back to his deadbeat sister is weak writing

I figured he didn't run because of what they said, but rather because he knew that they were too upset to listen to anything he had to say anyway.

>lack of empathy of someone that cannot immerse themselves in another universe with other rules and world ideas

And I am saying that the world you describe is fundamentally retarded. Things die, and so thinking creatures philosophize: what if they didn't? You are trying to explain away poor writing by making the world shitty and its inhabitants retarded, and you need to stop.

<I hate being right about them wasting the Official Huntsman License bit they set up in V6C1. What's the value of being a Huntsman? Yeah, fine, treat any citizen of a another kingdom that way but if having a Huntsman rank means anything it should be reflected in how Qrow is treated here. But since the character's a useless drunk maybe I'm over thinking it. It doesn't bother that his attitude gets in his way since I've never seen him as cool, he's always been grating at best.

<Here again Weiss looks to Blake for affirmation of something instead of just stepping forward. Didn't they do this enough last volume? Isn't this the time to put on airs & use the Schnee name for whatever you can get?

<And shouldn't verification of Weiss' identity involve some sort of technological aspect? This is Atlas we're dealing with here in a world where semblances allow people to cast illusions.

<Shame they didn't just seize possession of her. Given how Ozpin proved everybody had poor reaction times in V6C2, the Atlesian soldiers could have taken Weiss inside the gates before any of R_BY or Qrow could even draw their weapons.

<The staging for this scene reads awkwardly. It feels like they're clustered together in a small room instead of being out in the open.

<Why would Calavera need to travel to the Kingdom of Atlas just to have her eyes serviced? Does that mean if Yang's prosthetic arm ever needs repair she'd have to go all the way to Atlas from wherever she was on Remnant?

<Did they get the shots backward? Why do they show the gate opening in a wide shot then go in close to show it unlock and open again?

<Why are the nameplates and patches blank? And does it feel odd that they introduce Cordoven as Special Operative without saying her rank?

<After missing the chance to show us the wider culture of Atlas back in V4, I don't get why Kerry&Miles thought this scene was a good idea. This is supposed to be the largest Atlas military base outside of it's main kingdom? Was the scale on the map way off or did the showrunners not think this through?

<Also been hating whatever is going on with the hair this volume. Whether it's the shading or underlying construction, it's just ugly and distracting. How do they manage to have worse looking hair with more powerful software?

<That joke would have worked if Cordoven was assigned to a base off of Menagerie.

<Nice to see that they've had Blake spayed since V1. Someone makes an obvious verbal jab at her and all she can do is put on a sad face and droop her cat ears. Stop pandering to furries and remember Blake's character, Miles&Kerry!

<Much like Weiss, I don't get what this moment is trying to convey. Why is Ruby telling her again that they won't leave her side?

<I'll never not find it funny how Qrow's drinking is supposed to be such a bad thing now. The fandom's favorite "druncle". He was introduced as a lout and is just being true to form. His careless blabbing to Leo almost cost them the relic back in V5 and made me empathize with Raven's desire to kill him.

<I didn't comment on it last episode but their writing of Nora has been so inconsistent with regard to Ozpin/Oscar that it disturbs the story. This latest bit of dialogue from her about Ozpin usually knowing what to do is just a lie. The most recent example was just a couple weeks back, where he blundered them into an ambush at Haven that nearly got them all killed.

<So it's JN_R's turn to learn the news of Salem's immortality. This enemy you didn't know existed before a couple months ago is unkillable, but nobody ever told you that killing her was the goal. And why is that the thing that everybody is getting hung up on? Why not the existence of the gods, or the fact that humanity was wiped out previously and may be so again?

<I don't think I'll ever understand how the audience is supposed to relate when the characters reactions to learning the "secret history of the world" is so uniform.

<Hah! Is Blake angling to run away again? Please?

<Guess we'll chalk up the presence of butterflies and citrus trees to magic since the climate is so cold in Argus.

<Defeat the purpose? No, that line was purposeless. It's either a compliment or Calavera's words don't mean anything. There's a difference between being inscrutable and being insufferable.

<There's no way Calavera could reach Ruby from where she's sitting even with her cane/scythe.

<Why is Ruby's chest just a flat expanse with no detail? Give her a cleavage line at least.

<All of Calavera's words here conflict with how we saw her use Silver-Eyes in the V6C7 flashback. She was literally covering her own ass because she decided to show off instead of finishing the Giant Nevermore quickly.

<There's no real tension in the ending. Finding out Oscar's gone should be significant but it just lands flat.

Just like in Vale or Haven, I ask where the Mistrali soldiers are? If Atlas is pulling back then Mistral's soldiers should be more present to provide city security.

The lack of a fortified Argus sea wall bothers because we've seen from V4C3 that dangers exist in Remnant's oceans. Hope they don't do an homage to Godzilla.

<Jaune could've said Oscar has DID to his sister, and they need to find him before gets suicidal, dumb Jaune, it should have been your first thought, since you have a sister or long lost Uncle that you haven't met who presents similar conditions that qualifies you to pressume a prognosis without a peer, 'cause psych hospitals exist on this universe too.

>Here again Weiss looks to Blake for affirmation of something instead of just stepping forward. Didn't they do this enough last volume? Isn't this the time to put on airs & use the Schnee name for whatever you can get?

They just defanged Weiss here since they (writers) obviously want Ruby to be the one who breaks the slump the team found themselves. Being the designated protagonist and all.

>And shouldn't verification of Weiss' identity involve some sort of technological aspect? This is Atlas we're dealing with here in a world where semblances allow people to cast illusions.

Or at least have Weiss show some identification that would satisfy a checkpoint. Or show the guards as sloppy since they don't really give a damn about their job.

>Shame they didn't just seize possession of her. Given how Ozpin proved everybody had poor reaction times in V6C2, the Atlesian soldiers could have taken Weiss inside the gates before any of R_BY or Qrow could even draw their weapons.

Jacques stripped Weiss of her inheritance and I doubt he wants her around anytime soon. She wouldn't have importance for James Ironwood by herself regardless of Winter being her sister.

>Why would Calavera need to travel to the Kingdom of Atlas just to have her eyes serviced? Does that mean if Yang's prosthetic arm ever needs repair she'd have to go all the way to Atlas from wherever she was on Remnant?

I "think" the idea of Remnant is that for all its shiny new technology it's still a post-apocalyptic hole for a lot of the world. Calavera needs to travel since the know-how on how to fix her eyes properly isn't in wherever she lives.

>After missing the chance to show us the wider culture of Atlas back in V4, I don't get why Kerry&Miles thought this scene was a good idea. This is supposed to be the largest Atlas military base outside of it's main kingdom? Was the scale on the map way off or did the showrunners not think this through?

It's like how Menagerie is SUPPOSED to be a crowded dump of a country that humans more or less exiled the faunus to, but when we see it looks like a tropical paradise.

>Nice to see that they've had Blake spayed since V1. Someone makes an obvious verbal jab at her and all she can do is put on a sad face and droop her cat ears. Stop pandering to furries and remember Blake's character, Miles&Kerry!

I still find her overreaction to Ozpin silly. You'd THINK she might see where Ozpin is coming from with how she not only lied about what she was but worked to help her kind only for it to blow up in her face.

>I'll never not find it funny how Qrow's drinking is supposed to be such a bad thing now. The fandom's favorite "druncle". He was introduced as a lout and is just being true to form. His careless blabbing to Leo almost cost them the relic back in V5 and made me empathize with Raven's desire to kill him.

If Ozpin was better written he'd point out how any other commander would have canned him after that mess with other antics of Qrow's like how he picked a fight with Winter yet he still kept him around since he found a worthy purpose for him.

>So it's JN_R's turn to learn the news of Salem's immortality. This enemy you didn't know existed before a couple months ago is unkillable, but nobody ever told you that killing her was the goal. And why is that the thing that everybody is getting hung up on? Why not the existence of the gods, or the fact that humanity was wiped out previously and may be so again?

Again, the whole "OZPIN LIES TO UZZ" whining is just a cheap way to setback the heroes after the villains got setback (Cinder defeated and missing, Adam's attempt on the lives of Blake's family foiled and his troops lose trust in him). They don't dwell on what the flashback means for their world, their history, and where both are going since that's not the point of the flashback.

>I don't think I'll ever understand how the audience is supposed to relate when the characters reactions to learning the "secret history of the world" is so uniform.

They try to make the melodrama something that impacts the whole party. Even though only some of the team actually knew Ozpin enough and none of them seem to be all that bothered over him knowingly putting civilians at risk. Like I said on 4ch's rwbyg, Blake and Weiss shouldn't have been so belligerent about Ozpin that they'd threaten harm to Qrow just for him having his hand up (and again, Blake SHOULD see something she shares with Ozpin).

>There's no real tension in the ending. Finding out Oscar's gone should be significant but it just lands flat.

If that's not a buildup to Ozpin planning to cut ties with RWBY and seize the relic then whatever.

>I "think" the idea of Remnant is that for all its shiny new technology it's still a post-apocalyptic hole for a lot of the world. Calavera needs to travel since the know-how on how to fix her eyes properly isn't in wherever she lives.

Atlas has got a lot of holdings in the other 3 kingdoms, engineers should be on hand to maintain the equipment. But maybe you're right and I'm presuming too much. Atlas could have extremely strict controls on the export of their technology. Calavera's "eyes" could be a highly specialized bit of technology. Which opens up the question of why a vagabond former Huntress was given these "eyes" in the first place? Or maybe we'll see, when we eventually get to see the actual kingdom of Atlas, that tech like this is fairly common.

>I still find her overreaction to Ozpin silly.

Silly but true to character for someone caught up in a belief system the way Blake is. She couldn't even bring herself to see that Ozpin was giving her a chance to be straight with him because to Blake he was just one of "DUH RACIS HUMANZ." Thanks for reminding me that Blake gets to join Yang in the "hypocrites can't judge Ozpin for keeping secrets club". Rushing the reunion of team RWBY is just hurting all the characters.

>If Ozpin was better written he'd point out how any other commander would have canned him after that mess with other antics of Qrow's like how he picked a fight with Winter yet he still kept him around since he found a worthy purpose for him.

His respect for individual choice means that he gets screwed over more often than not. Salem manipulates & straight up controls people. The only reason she hasn't won is that those she controls tend to self-destruct in stupidity before they can accomplish their goals e.g., Cinder, Adam, & Hazel.

And now I'm wondering how Ozpin deals with echoes, when he encounters people who strongly remind him of those he's known throughout his lifetimes.

>Like I said on 4ch's rwbyg, Blake and Weiss shouldn't have been so belligerent about Ozpin that they'd threaten harm to Qrow just for him having his hand up (and again, Blake SHOULD see something she shares with Ozpin).

That moment will always feel like something they took way too far or an idea they had but didn't really think through its implications.

>If that's not a buildup to Ozpin planning to cut ties with RWBY and seize the relic then whatever.

Unfortunately that moment from the episode where Ren asks, "…then how are we supposed to win this?" and Oscar very deliberately looks at Ruby probably means that Ozpin's not going anywhere. Not willingly anyway.

This isn't about empathy. It's about believably. The writers have constructed a world which is not believable to me. I cannot place myself in the very world that has been created because it lacks primitive philosophy. Even retarded Africans in mud huts have considered the ramifications of immortality. No, I cannot conceive of a world that is more philosophically impoverished than the niggers of Africa.

Look, you got me on what Ruby said to grandma, and I conceded as much. I wanted a bonding moment between Ruby and grandma (reminiscing about their silver-eyed parent) that probably wasn't in a good place for it. But you have provided me with nothing but "Listen and Believe (tm)" as to why Ruby and Co should have a problem with Salem's immortality. Why do they need to defeat her, given that they signed up for a lifetime of managing Grimm? Why can't they come up with alternatives to defeating her, and have just entered the "Anger" stage of grief?

>Even retarded Africans in mud huts have considered the ramifications of immortality.

And Seuss's characters?

>But you have provided me with nothing but "Listen and Believe (tm)"

Keep projecting, it's winning you all the points. The filter button is right above.

>Why do they need to defeat her, given that they signed up for a lifetime of managing Grimm?

Barely trained as huntsmen, in their teens, and you want them to be able to solve mad immortal magical warlock. Tell me who's more ridiculous. I place myself in Qrow's shoes: "I need a drink."

>Why can't they come up with alternatives to defeating her, and have just entered the "Anger" stage of grief?

Yes m8, how do you defeat an immortal warlock hell bent on destroying civilization as we know it, and no one believes your sad sorry tale because magic doesn't exist in our universe. Imagine they can summon the hellspawn we know as Grimm.

Wouldn't you be called a lunatic?

>Oscar can resist Ozpin. If Oz tried to run off, Oscar could stop him.

We saw in life 2, and volume 5 how Ozma can completely control their hosts. Qrow wasn't kidding when he said: "Don't lie to him."

>Atlas has got a lot of holdings in the other 3 kingdoms, engineers should be on hand to maintain the equipment. But maybe you're right and I'm presuming too much. Atlas could have extremely strict controls on the export of their technology. Calavera's "eyes" could be a highly specialized bit of technology. Which opens up the question of why a vagabond former Huntress was given these "eyes" in the first place? Or maybe we'll see, when we eventually get to see the actual kingdom of Atlas, that tech like this is fairly common.

I'd write that Atlas has a monopoly on such technology and so has arrangements so that other countries have to get access to it on their terms. A piece like Yang's shiny new metal arm would just be a rare exception if not traced to Atlas.

>Silly but true to character for someone caught up in a belief system the way Blake is. She couldn't even bring herself to see that Ozpin was giving her a chance to be straight with him because to Blake he was just one of "DUH RACIS HUMANZ." Thanks for reminding me that Blake gets to join Yang in the "hypocrites can't judge Ozpin for keeping secrets club". Rushing the reunion of team RWBY is just hurting all the characters.

But we weren't shown Ozpin hurting faunus as a race or otherwise interacting with them to a significant amount in his flashback. For her attitude towards Ozpin to be more solid, we'd need to see that (like say, pulling a Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn and have him be responsible for the current relations between the races).

>That moment will always feel like something they took way too far or an idea they had but didn't really think through its implications.

Again and again, they force this melodrama into something that impacts the team when a lot of time doesn't know Ozpin that well.

I forgot to say that Ozpin can certainly seize his hosts in case they misbehave as >>37179 points out. So Ozpin acting against Oscar's will shouldn't matter in the scenario of getting tired of his job and summoning the gods back early.

>Salem has been around for millennia, yet has failed to conquer or destroy mankind. That suggests she can indeed be managed.

Exactly. But nothing suggests "immortality exists, and um, there's magic, and she can control Grimm. How do we defeat this? No, I'm not kidding. No, I'm not 'a kid hung up on fairytales.' What do you mean we don't have the man power, what happened with Lionheart?!?"

>I'd write that Atlas has a monopoly on such technology and so has arrangements so that other countries have to get access to it on their terms. A piece like Yang's shiny new metal arm would just be a rare exception if not traced to Atlas.

The thing is, people go to the United States to get "state-of-the-art treatment" (which is usually untested medical experimentation). And Americans go to Thailand for sex changes.

As an American, I had a coworker fly to California for medical treatment. Where I live, it's like going from Paris to Warsaw (distance-wise).

>TFW The next episode comes, we are going to waste too much time on trying to find and comfort Oscar.

>TFW A fight may occur, but it may not have any tension in it at all.

>TFW Inevitably the final battle for this volume will just be a repeat of V5's final battle. Everyone will show up for a fight that won't have any tension in it whatsoever, they will all survive, Cinder will still be around, the """plot""" doesn't move forward, but only at the end of the volume is when the team makes it to Atlas.

I'm not saying he isn't wrong to be disheartened by the little if awful explanation of silver eyes. It's just I wouldn't get frustrated by two scums trying to recon what they were in Monty's mind. So I empathize with the ranter, but I don't feel frustrated, I feel comic: it's a spit on an autistic animator that wanted to create something with merchants like Burnie Burns, Matt Hullum, Yvonne Secretan , and Ezra Cooperstein. With kikes, you always lose.

I certainly agree Monty got kiked, but I think the worrying part is, most of the major/early details probably were his ideas as oppose to retcons.

Even a lot of good anime (and a lot of media TBH) has mile wide plot holes- but you don't notice because you're entertained. We were picking at the plot even in Seasons 1 and 2, but with shit more like Samurai Jack (weird world rarely explained) or even full blown Dead Fantasy (no to little voice acting or explanation of the world, just fight after fight) we wouldn't care about any of this.

Still I can't blame the guy. I do blame M&K who have had a lot longer to learn from their mistakes, and they keep making new ones. Fixing problems while keeping the story going is hard, so I'm less harsh on them there. But we keep getting basic story telling mistakes, political soap-boxing, and even in this "apology season" a little arrogance still (like making a joke about being in the house too much).

Large casts can work (One Piece and to an extent Hunter x Hunter)- you have various factions that dip in and out while your core is still the focus. Not that we should not have had the school years, but it almost feels like RWBY would have functioned better if the main characters from the start were exploring/traveling all over Remnant. Then again, that's sort of what we got with this season and season 4, and it ain't exactly been a journey of spectacle and wonder.

It's on purpose, watch the interview. Mike expressed he doesn't know how to keep congruency, and admitted some parts about Jaune heavily conflict.

Other media is other media. I can take artistic shows like Samurai Jack and Courage the Cowardly Dog, and separate them from lore centric pieces.

I didn't expect RWBY to be detailed, or consistent. These were amateurs copying models they found online and rigging them to make a meme story. I don't expect logical autoritas, if I did, I'd read a documentary.

If M&K cared, the scripts would have been written years ago, not on the fly.

>RWBY would have functioned better if the main characters from the start were exploring/traveling all over Remnant

I rather play yet another Dragon Quest, many times more immersive than being narrated.

What the fuck is the scorpion guy's deal? I get he's supposed to be crazy, but I can never tell what kind of crazy he is. He's written like an inconsistent hodgepodge of various crazy archetypes from whatever the writers can get there grubby hands on.

Two years since the fall of beacon. This was well executed, if you recall the very first episode. A hometown star isn't easily forgotten in a "small" city. I did like the nudge that Pyrrha's lineage is a ghost, or the spirit of Athena: in Greek epics, this is how she met the heros, in secret. Jaune is our little Aeneas.

> It's fucking weird when the villains actually HAVE time to digest and reflect their current happenstance while the main characters don't.

> I'll hand it to Mercury, he actually has motivations and became a capable fighter with hard work and personal drive even if it's merely just to get his Semblance back from an OP dad whose semblance is to… steal other people's semblances that went nowhere anyway. Mercury became a bit more likable even if he's just a shit Sasuke proxy.

> Emerald actually questioning her own stance in the team and her own ideologies like again… the villains actually had time to reflect on their own situations and yet RWBY didn't? I mean it might be a flag that Emerald might go to the good side, but… probably be the Zuko, who knows?

> Tyrion's new tail isn't a deathstalker grim tail. Will admit the tech tail is at least a good replacement. He is still worst crazy guy tho.

> It's weird that Jaune's sister was thinking of the JNR's possible alternate plans instead of having plans of their own themselves. It would have been great if we get to hear the teams' personal plans for the future. Again, nothing wrong with characters having personalities, RT.

> Okay… where was that scene with Jaune meeting and mourning with Pyrrha's mom last volume? Because this almost feels like major damage control and all for Jaune to have his closure, move on, and get shipped again. And like Maria's influence as the Grimm Reaper, this is just a plot point that appears and shines through this scene and not beyond it. Aside from that, this is a pretty nice scene from JNR. Just needs to be written better and have it give off the fact that JNR, mostly Jaune, actually loved Pyrrha as she was and not as she wass praised as.

>And then Ozcar (because I doubt that's actually Oscar in there with the new Michael Jackson threads) returns because there is a sale at Hot Topic and EVERYONE misses him as if they were actually close. It would have worked better if Jaune finds Oscar somewhere and they actually talk. The reason why Pyrrha died was because Oz pressured her to be the Fall Maiden under the guise of choosing.

> Instead Jaune just says sorry to Oscar with blind faith because we can't have genuine questions of existence there. We gotta have RT believe they are giving us more SMILES!

> Jaune's plan is to steal an airship and go to Atlas. Eh, what can we do? They proved time and time again Atlas Military is fucking ass.

> Nora's reaction over the plan was fucking amazing though let's be real.

> Ruby… you wouldn't have survived throughout this show without an adult saving you or telling you what to do. This "FUCK YOU, ADULTS!" speech is just Ruby being her optimistic "Ganbatte Ne!" self again. But hey, she's angwy and determined to do something stupid so that must mean she is finally a good leader and has character development!

Overall, I stated before about the "Aww it okay, we forgive you let's save the world. Ganbatte ne!"… But I was kidding! I didn't know they will actually fall on that idea! And how they paid it all off with Oscar's return had no genuine payoff. Like the feel when Merc and Emerald actually HAD reflection time that RWBY didn't with their infodump was just infuriating to say the least.

Bet you never watched any Batman, or Final Fantasies. Mercury here is the Ninja troupe, from the Legend of the Three Kingdoms.

Did you know™ Batman was inspired by Ninjustu?!? And Batman is a technically Ninja through and through?

In Batman, Villians and Heroes were both given times to reflect. And guess what, Apathy got in the way our heroes, while our Neo and upcoming "Oolong" will be our villians' whale. Oh wait, Oedipus Journey formula is too complex for our niglet, let's use Naruto language. Huh um, so, Orichimaru is going to have trouble with Third Hokage soon, yeah!

>probably be the Zuko,

Cinder's literal symbolism has been conscripted by Monty himself. Mai's just realizing she's been working on the wrong side of evil. Salem isn't as loyal and trustworthy as faithful Cinder.

>better if Jaune finds Oscar somewhere and they actually talk

Can't happen, didn't we want Ozpin to just fuck it and end it all?

Maybe Ozpin really is our Oolong. What the fuck is he going to ask….

>with blind faith because we can't have genuine questions of existence

Neat 17 year old, trained in noticing the little details of an actor and liar, actually regretfully of his mistakes, inspired by a loved one to "try even if it's hopeless." I sure he picked up on that, and so did drunk Qrow, and an old lady with bad eyesight that only experienced Oscar, hasn't really met Ozpin.. Sure as heck they are just fooling you. April Fools!

>They proved time and time again Atlas Military is fucking ass.

I'll be honest, I haven't seen Atlas military in action whatsoever, and want to see it. Like Qrow said: "You mean these weak toys?!?"

>Ruby… you wouldn't have survived throughout this show without an adult saving you or telling you what to do.

Oh boy, let's see:

1) Saved shop keeper's business by herself

2) Lead a team of strangers to eliminate a Nevermore

3) Lead a secret mission that found some criminals in the city

5) Lead her team to stop a terrorist plot

6) Actually sabotaged and deterred an enemy force from destroying a city

7) Recruits a new team after her team separates to continue her life's mission/journey/"destiny"

8) Manages to work flawlessly under orders, and saves their savior&mentor

I dunno mang, obeying orders like a sissy, like you are good at, she did well.

I was merely making Yuri Lowenthal snark. Don't need to chimp out over that and have me run over your glow in the dark nigger ass.

>In Batman, Villians and Heroes were both given times to reflect. And guess what, Apathy got in the way our heroes, while our Neo and upcoming "Oolong" will be our villians' whale.

Because that's how character's work with the lore and world building they are in . RWBY didn't have time for that because we gotta excuse their poor reflection with the "Zombie Aura" that was merely jobbed by Ruby's Silver Eyes.

>Cinder's literal symbolism has been conscripted by Monty himself. Mai's just realizing she's been working on the wrong side of evil. Salem isn't as loyal and trustworthy as faithful Cinder.

Basically they might make Emerald the eventual good guy out of what she is reflecting on. Knowing RT's love for unoriginality and lazy copies…

>Neat 17 year old, trained in noticing the little details of an actor and liar, actually regretfully of his mistakes, inspired by a loved one to "try even if it's hopeless."

I'm just saying that being given the world's biggest infodump without a moment of "wtf are we tackling here" would take a little more than just one walk and a "let's try to kill an immortal!" I know RWBY ain't great at lore and philosophies, but they can at least try.

>I dunno mang, obeying orders like a sissy, like you are good at, she did well.

It would have been better if they didn't put the "FUCK YOU ADULTS!" (Note that she didn't pick the word "Authority") Angle in that speech as that would have stated that RWBY only got where they were PURELY by themselves, basically discrediting the genuine adult help and guide they got over the volume. So really Ruby's speech still did not make a lick of sense anyway.

>The fuck is with the sudden Mercury focus? Nice that any of Salem's goons are getting something, but I think this should've happened sooner if they really wanted it in the show.

> Is it me or does Tyrian's actor sound like he's doing a knock off of BTAS Joker?

>I like that they finally had Jaune talk to one of Pyrrha's family members, but this should've happened in Vol. 4.

>So when are they going to resolve this whole 'Qrow's drunken-ness is fucking over the team' thing? I'm already getting tired of it.

>Oscar's new outfit looks like ass.

>Like that everyone's sucking up to Oscar now without really talking things through. Guess all he needed were some ass pats.

>What's with this weird emphasis on 'kids vs. adults' here? I thought it was about Qrow being disillusioned and Ruby still having hope.

Not the worst episode, but a lot of it could've been done in earlier volumes. Would've been nice to see Oscar and Jaune actually talk things out instead of that whole conflict getting resolved so easily. So pretty much what everyone else in the thread's been saying.

< I noticed that Emerald (and I assumed Mercury) had no motivation to stay immediately. Why didn't they split when shit went south at Haven? Honestly, they should have took off and found Cinder at the beginning of the season.

< Why did they even bother looking for Oscar, given that they think he is untrustworthy? Why bother?

< What the fuck is up with this memorial? You can't tell me that Pyrrha was the only person from Argus to die at the Fall of Beacon. While the monument should feature Pyrrha, as a hometown hero, it shouldn't be dedicated to her.

< And who the fuck are you? The question Pyrrha's relative (mom?) should have asked.

>The fuck is with the sudden Mercury focus? Nice that any of Salem's goons are getting something, but I think this should've happened sooner if they really wanted it in the show.

I think this is just about Emerald doubting her own position in Team Salem without Cinder, and Mercury telling her to suck it up by telling her that at least being in a team that gave a shit about him is better than being abused by a dad to the point of murder.

>So when are they going to resolve this whole 'Qrow's drunken-ness is fucking over the team' thing? I'm already getting tired of it.

The problem is more that Qrow's somehow reacting to the ridiculously huge chain of events that happened in the chapter that RWBY didn't. He realized that Oz is a liar, there is a huge lore infodump that can destroy everything they believe in, his childhood hero retired early because she was defeated too easily by a bandit, and he most likely isn't getting the trust of Atlas and Ozpin to complete their mission. It wasn't a good reaction and RWBY merely just thinks of Qrow as muh useless drunk now while they care more about defeating Salem than the big philosophically-clashing infodump, but at least we can state that Qrow's pure drunk pessimism isn't at least without reason.

>Like that everyone's sucking up to Oscar now without really talking things through. Guess all he needed were some ass pats.

I'm actually a bit suspicious about that. Mostly on that he might actually be Oz taking over Oscar while pretending to be him. But yeah, if they actually have genuine friendship moments between actual Oscar and the team… Let's call him Ozcar for now. May be wrong bout it, but eh.

< What the fuck is up with this memorial? You can't tell me that Pyrrha was the only person from Argus to die at the Fall of Beacon. While the monument should feature Pyrrha, as a hometown hero, it shouldn't be dedicated to her.

< And who the fuck are you? The question Pyrrha's relative (mom?) should have asked.

Damage control for having QRNJR stay in the house for a whole volume.

< Contrived conflict is resolved in a way that is worse than the existence of the conflict to begin with.

< Fucking Qrow. But he does have a good point: "I'm glad you kids worked out… uh… whatever all that was"

All this because Ozcar wanted to shop at Hot Topic.

< Actually, the switch to "kids vs adults" makes sense here, given that she is arguing against Qrow's view of everyone as a group of children. See quote from previous line.

It felt more like Qrow's doubt was because of the Atlas Military being too stronk (on paper) and they were planning to go rogue stealing an airship. But hey Ruby's "We are big girls" speech works anyway because protagonists, so whatever. Plus, it might give Qrow two options:

1. Qrow gets underestimated and tells Ruby to be the ultimate leader because that's how Ruby goes.

Mercury has 180'd but at least he's acting like I expected him to. Always thought his charismatic nature around others was an act, though I did think his friendship with Emerald was genuine. Both Emerald and Mercury's attitudes here needed build up- scenes where Emerald felt more isolated and missing Cinder (even if she realizes Cinder was manipulating her) and Mercury feeling like he can be himself more (cold and self-serving)- with Hazel's punishment being a big push for both of them rather than the sole incident.

Shame we had a "blink and miss it" moment with the fact Mercury's Dad could steal semblances though it makes a lot more sense why Cinder wanted to hire him now. The downside is- I'd rather have had him than Mercury now.

Mercury's character isn't interesting enough to stop someone with more interesting powers to seem more appealing (same problem with Tyrion compared to Tock). Or more the fact an alternate blank slate seems preferable.

What difference would it make if Mercury never had a semblance? Because it seems like none. His motives could still be the same. "I work harder because there will always be someone stronger- a semblance, someone faster, someone with a bigger gun- it's kill or be killed."

Tyrion still gets on my nerves. I think if you dropped the constant laughter and made his emotional swings seem more genuine (or better masked) that he would seem more unstable rather than babies first Joker rip-off. Imagine if he spoke like he genuinely cared about Emerald and Mercury being happy before going back to the threat.

Is it just me or are the mundane animations really crappy and choppy this episode? The sparring between Emerald and Mercury, JNR + Sis moving faster than they are walking.

Also- if Oscar still has his scroll, text him. Blow it up with constant messages. If he thinks Jaune is out of the picture he may come back. And speaking of- why the fuck is Jaune suddenly guilt ridden? Glad to see he doesn't need introspection, because now his justified anger last time looks like a tantrum.

I can ignore what would compel Jaune to follow a leaf, I can even understand why Pyrrah would get a statue, assuming this is her home town- even if it is devoid of pseudo-Greek influence like her clothes suggest, Like Ren with his home town, what gets me more is that Jaune should know this exists, and that no one has told him. Even if he was avoiding all info about Pyrrah due to how painful it is, it surprises me he never came to this place before in the days he was here. Not even his own sister brought it up now or in the past. "Hey, I moved to that town with that Pyrah girl you mentioned, she's kind of a mini-celeb here since she did so well as a huntress. Not to mention that Pumpkin Pete contest." "Jaune, there's a… Memorial in the park nearby. You don't have to go, but if you want, I'm happy to take you there. Or just show you the way and give you privacy." Nora and Ren could even have known about this even if we assume Jaune didn't tell his sister about his crush since Pyrah would have mentioned her home-town.

I'm also shocked the statue isn't controversial. Her semblance "killed" Penny and started the grim attack on the Vytal Festival and most of the civilized world. Not saying you need a scene of a drunk hurling stones at it so Jaune can have some more angst but come on.

The lighting is absolutely gorgeous though, and I'd love to see it in the whole show if not for how awful 3D anime characters look when realistic lighting is applied to them without serious texture work. though the eyes being shut on the statue is kinda off. It's abnormal is all

Is this VA the same as Pyrahs? The fake out of it being her didn't really work since her voice is deeper, but they got the pattern of her speech down perfectly. And then it pisses me off again that Jaune wouldn't know Pyrah's Mom, even after her death.

I do like how this scene is probably gonna be the motivation to make everyone get back to the task. Yes it's daft that they're having doubts in a job that is supposed to be endless- but any adventure should have doubts. If your cast are constantly wanting to forge ahead with no apprehension it makes it harder to show how challenging the task is. Even when you have a show where one person is fearless (One Piece, Gurren Lagan) those around that character can still act as the voice of reason or legitimate concern. You need peaks and valleys of emotion- and it feels like the valley wasn't deep enough for everyone to now get this peak.

My only other issue with this bit is that everyone should be here (rather than just a rallying speech from Jaune later). Sure Jaune has more affinity with this scene, but even their reaction to Jaune wanting to carry on could have been powerful. Here's a guy who was prepared to give up once he heard it was impossible, but he wants to carry on. If Jaune was also still mad at Oscar/Ozpin, this moment making him change his mind would also have more impact. Also, Nora saying "maybe we should keep fighting" and Jaune chirping in agreement undercuts it a little. Since Nora is usually the goofball it feels like it should be the other way around- even if everything is telling us Jaune has already decided that.

I do share your concerns this is all a bit heavy handed on the emotional manipulation, and if moments like this weren't mishandled before I'd be applauding this scene. If this is teasing at reincarnation or a ghost I will be furious though. Though it is better than Salem reviving her or making an evil clone.

I'm surprised Oscar is taking everything said to him in his stride. Apparently he had all his introspection off screen as well. Like others have said- Oscar should have been at the statue, maybe even the return of Ozpin. "I know I tell you all to keep fighting but it never gets easier to say and every loss still hurts." etc

I also think maybe a few people should have chimed up when Jaune mentioned his idea before being shot-down. Blake could be sneaky, Ruby's speed, someone could cause a distraction etc. Weiss couldn't really bribe anyone for an airship since she's been cut off financially. I'm also willing to bet Weiss losing her heritage is now major news in anywhere Atlas has influence. Not to mention the Atlas guards weren't willing to drag her back forcefully, showing how little those with authority in Atlas care about her- so she won't be able to call in favors.

And I liked Ruby's speech until I read >>37212 's reasoning behind why it sucked, and it is true. She has saved the day without adult supervision numerous times, but the spirit and tone feel like a "fuck you you're not my real dad" tantrum instead of "We aren't kids anymore."

>Robots aren't human, and people empathized with Mercury's "leg fracture".

Even if people did rationalize that she wasn't a person (though machines that can convincingly pull off being alive get emotional responses from people), it was her death + Cinder's speech that made people realize "oh shit, why is Atlas making robots that look like people?" even though with Huntsmen and seemingly free movement, the threat of someone of great capability entering another nation and causing harm is already there- robot or not. The concern should be they could make a robot that looks like anyone. that started the Grimm disaster and is making war seem likely (though the dust embargo partially does that as well). I can't see a lot of Atlas soldiers liking the girl who indirectly will get them in trenches, even if it was their own scientists who made Penny.

<If you don't like being kept in the dark Emerald, don't screw up like you did last volume. You remember last volume, right? Salem sent you all to get the relic and you not only came back without it you also lost Cinder.

<Super-skilled assassin does front-kick/punch combo like a white belt in karate.

<Why are tatami on the floor here? Where are Emerald's weapons?

<Emerald getting on Mercury's case over having a paper-thin character motivation would work if her own motivation wasn't stupidity. With Emerald's semblance there should have been no reason she was living on the streets and going hungry, yet there she was stealing expensive jewellery but unable to take care of herself.

<Family?! Ha! At least Mercury was allowed to point out how ridiculous that was.

<From Emerald's interrupted dialogue, we can see that it took the absence of Cinder for her to start getting introspective about things. Not teaming up with terrorists to destroy a kingdom an slaughter a lot of innocent people in V3, not when she found herself living in Salem's castle and watched Grimm ooze up out of those black pools in V4, not plotting to destroy another school and unleash chaos in another kingdom in V5. She's coming off very Ilia-like here.

<Emerald trying to fight Mercury in hand-to-hand… the jokes just write themselves this season.

<They exposition dumped Mercury's backstory, after 3 volumes of waiting, making it one of the most anti-climactic moments in the show.

<"You don't know me!" The cry of baby-edgelords everywhere.

<a Mercury vs Tyrian scuffle could've been some visual fun but this is not that type of show.

<Tyrian's problem is that he's just an offscreen badass. He's as much a screw-up as the rest of Salem's crew. He was sent to fetch Ruby back in V4 and ended up maimed along with failing to kill Qrow. Tyrian's on Qrow's level and Hazel was smacking Qrow around and calling him Susan. So there's no danger or foreboding here. No one's going to get hurt on camera. It's just another awkward exposition dump.

<Where's Hazel?

As other anons have pointed out Emerald and Mercury should be out looking for Cinder from the moment the found out she was still alive.

<Hey, we need to separate for no real reason, so instead of pretending to look for Oscar there's a café somewhere offscreen.

<Who puts benches so close to the edge of the sidewalk that when seated your feet dangle over the curb?

<What is that statue's pose meant to convey? And playing a song about love here is just the wrong call.

<Strange that they went with a relief carved plaque instead of an engraved one.

<Why is this the first we're hearing of Sanctum Academy being in this city?

<It's been 3 volumes now, please stop giving characters or their clothes white fur until you can make it look like fur.

<The originally planned V3 Pyrrha death would have given this scene some needed resonance. It falls flat because Kerry&Miles wrote Pyrrha committing suicide instead of having her sacrificing herself/being killed to protect something/someone.

This whole scene embodies the damage you can do when trying to patch things into the story. I knew there was trouble when there was no effort made to look up Pyrrha's surviving relatives. Now we get the absolve Jaune of guilt scene. He just stumbles across this memorial in a park and everything viewers have waited for gets flushed away with feelz music and nonsensical dialogue.

<This show keeps screwing up when talking about choice. Kerry&Miles this was bad just like Li Ren's "taking no action at all" dialogue in V4 and Oscar explaining away Gretchen's death to Hazel in V5. "She made a choice" vs "there wasn't a choice to make". You're not being deep or philosophical. You're just being contradictory and hiding behind feelz.

<Responsibility to try what? Yeah, she could have been a Huntress if she hadn't killed herself.

<Someone who loudly walks up in high heels disappears soundlessly when you look away.

<Come to think of it why aren't there more flowers or other trinkets/memorabilia at the memorial? Pyrrha was the Mistral regional champion 4 years running, she had to have been on more than just cereal boxes. And since it symbolizes one of many that died in the Fall of Beacon there should most definitely be a lot more here than just one bunch of flowers.

<No, Ren. Don't stop Jaune from realizing he's a screw up or next time his unthinking actions will actually get someone killed. What he did by charging Cinder put you all at risk. If Cinder wasn't stupid she'd have won the conflict the moment he did that.

<How did Ren and Nora hear what Jaune said to Cinder while they were across the room getting thrashed by Hazel?

<Nora, you and Ren haven't mentioned Pyrrha since she died. It's news to Jaune and the audience that the two of you feel anything about her.

<"Family." Again! OOooo the FEELZ! ME AM CRY!

<Yes, "she knew she wasn't going to win", that's why Ozpin told you and Pyrrha to go find people who could actually do something other than die a pointless death.

<No, the lesson of Pyrrha's life cannot be this idiocy from the mouth of Jaune… well maybe if it helps get rid of Nora.

<None of this makes you melting down her stuff to upgrade your weapons any less ghoulish Jaune.

<You all have scrolls/communicators that work over distance. You don't have to actually go back to the house, just call them.

<Did anybody really think JN_R wasn't going to Atlas? Did I miss the scene where Jaune said he wasn't going with them or that he had serious doubts about whatever they think they're doing? Is that what that stupid blow up about not being able to "kill Salem" last chapter was supposed to be? Did I miss something?

<We don't really know that it is cold, Terra. There's snow on the ground but people aren't consistently dressed like it's winter, even the baby hasn't been dressed for cold weather. Most disturbingly on Remnant nobody's breath condenses in the cold air.

<To paraphrase Garfield the cat, "Whoever designed Oscar's new costume should be drug out into the street and shot."

<Dammit, Ruby, Qrow told you to stop lying to Oscar. That monstrosity he's wearing does not look good.

<What the hell is this thing with Ruby & Qrow? "Sit with us"? Qrow isn't one of your little friends Ruby, he's a grown damn man.

<When your only strategist is an idiot but your leader listens to him anyway.

<Weiss, the word you're looking for is stupid.

<Why are they even entertaining this idea?

<Why do they all look dejected when Qrow tells then to forget about Jaune's stupid plan? He didn't tell them to stop trying to find a way just that this particular plan is literally all downside.

<You know Ruby if you had let Qrow go off to his room in the first place, you could have listened to Jaune's half-baked idea without his input, right? You don't get to demand his presence while demanding his silence. He's not your dog.

<Ruby's little speech proves that she exists in her own reality and shouldn't be leading anything except the chow line.

<Now everybody is smiling. Why? Jaune's idea is still undiluted idiocy. And why did they move Maria around between shots?

<Is that supposed to be Ruby's "determined" look?

Haven't seen anything Star Wars in years but Jaune's "steal an Atlas ship" idea feels like it comes from there somehow. As others have pointed out, they can get in the way Weiss' butler got her out. Weiss wasn't smart enough to escape from her father's house without help so I can't credit her with thinking up the idea to bribe a smuggler on her own.

>Wow they're really trying to force a tug on those heartstrings huh? Too bad it comes across as incredibly hollow.

They really do seem incapable of subtlety when dealing with subjects like this. It always comes across as just playing on the audiences emotions because of that. What also hurts the scene is that they pushed it off for so long. Cinder killed Pyrrha in V3C12 and we finally get this scene in V6C9

>basically discrediting the genuine adult help and guide they got over the volume. So really Ruby's speech still did not make a lick of sense anyway.

Ruby has fully transitioned into the character that's always right because the writers say so. Remember Yang's reason for staying last volume is because Ruby "somehow always knows the right thing to do." Which is just as bad as Ren's line about how they've all grown.

>I noticed that Emerald (and I assumed Mercury) had no motivation to stay immediately. Why didn't they split when shit went south at Haven? Honestly, they should have took off and found Cinder at the beginning of the season.

That's probably where the idea for this scene came from. Hazel, Emerald & Mercury had no real reason to go back to base just to tell Salem they'd failed. This isn't the 1980s He-Man cartoon, just talk to her through one of those Seer Grimm. So we've got characters just sitting around with nothing to do while story is happening elsewhere.

>everyone knows her death somehow but not penny's death broadcasted live to everyone

Penny's death was mentioned by Lionheart in V5C1. And I don't know if they want to get into how the general public feels about Atlas sneaking a machine into the tournament. Even worse if they find out Atlas has been taking people's souls and stuffing them into android bodies.

>Damage control for having QRNJR stay in the house for a whole volume.

They can't make up for it so they just need to resolve not to do it again and let the teasing roll off their backs. What mystifies me is how, with all the eyes that look over every step of the process, they could have thought that what they were doing in V5 was good in the first place.

>Is it just me or are the mundane animations really crappy and choppy this episode?

Overreliance on mocap and the new hires doing most of the animation grunt work.

>assuming this is her home town- even if it is devoid of pseudo-Greek influence like her clothes suggest

Ouch! The CRWBY was proud of their blending Greco-Roman architecture into Remnancisco. You really hurt their feelings.

>Yes it's daft that they're having doubts in a job that is supposed to be endless- but any adventure should have doubts.

Doubts aren't the problem. Just that given the various characters the nature of their doubts should vary as well. Instead everybody got stuck on, "WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE CAN'T KILL SALEM?!" Even with this episode, everyone seems to be drawing from the same emotional pool. All frowning and looking sad when Qrow shoots down Jaune's brain fart and then all perking when Ruby goes full brat-mode. With the Oscar situation, all the same emotional reactions culminating in whatever it was they did when they saw he was back safe-and-sound.

>Is this VA the same as Pyrahs?

Yup, it's Jen Brown. Which makes that clip of her at the con >>36626 more ironic. Miles&Kerry started writing V6 last January, the clip is from September. There would have been no reason to hide that scene from her, if it existed.

>I'm sure for a niece who barely spent time with her, she feels that he should commune with them.

>It's breaking his cycle of solitude.

I wish I could believe her altruism wasn't just selfishness. He needs something to believe in again and is trying to avoid a crushing nihilism which has afflicted him after V6C3. Like >>37220 said it's a more understandable & human reaction to having his worldview shattered.

>Yar forgetting Terra Cotta-Arc job.

I'd hope a relay tower technician wouldn't have that kind of access but this is RWBY we're talking about.

>There would have been no reason to hide that scene from her, if it existed.

Like others have said the show should have been written a year in advance at least, I wonder how much time is spent on writing, and how much in advance.

Lines like Nora saying she's sick of the house in response to fan's criticism of them being in the house too long feels like it could be implemented in at the last second. It's not impossible each season is just written within a few months. The closest confirmation we have is Miles trying to say the "No action is sometimes the worst thin you can do" line was retro-actively anti-Trump, so that tweet + the last election gives some clue at least, assuming he was being honest.

As of episode 9, I think I got a pretty good X. The "Episode of Standing and Talking" was in Episode 8 where they are legit standing and talking in various locations. "Ruby gets shipped with someone" is with Jaune and/or Weiss. "Rich on Faunus Racism" is Caroline to Blake.

<Did anybody really think JN_R wasn't going to Atlas? Did I miss the scene where Jaune said he wasn't going with them or that he had serious doubts about whatever they think they're doing? Is that what that stupid blow up about not being able to "kill Salem" last chapter was supposed to be? Did I miss something?

I pointed out repeatedly that this "DAMN OZPIN" melodrama won't really lead anywhere. And it indeed did not. Oscar (and by extension Ozpin) is still in Ruby's posse instead of having left for good. Team RWBY is still going to accomplish their mission and face Salem's forces.

>Ruby's little speech proves that she exists in her own reality and shouldn't be leading anything except the chow line.

It's just a forced way for Ruby to become a savior figure for Remnant who casts off the ways of those mean adults. It's New Age Arrogance on the part of the writers.

>That's probably where the idea for this scene came from. Hazel, Emerald & Mercury had no real reason to go back to base just to tell Salem they'd failed. This isn't the 1980s He-Man cartoon, just talk to her through one of those Seer Grimm. So we've got characters just sitting around with nothing to do while story is happening elsewhere.

It would flow better if Salem's SSSSS Squad were established as bwing raised by her or devout believers in her and her cause. Instead of apparently a band of thugs who stick around Salem for…stuff.

>I wish I could believe her altruism wasn't just selfishness. He needs something to believe in again and is trying to avoid a crushing nihilism which has afflicted him after V6C3. Like >>37220 said it's a more understandable & human reaction to having his worldview shattered.

Again he should have already asked Ozpin if there was a way to end Salem if doing so was that important to his serivice. Do not forget that he was already established as Ozpin's right-hand who was surely privy to his dealings.

If Qrow needed to fall-out with Ozpin then it should have been over knowingly putting civilians at risk.

They've never recovered from the 'Fire, Ready, Aim' way that RWBY got started. Rooster Teeth owns RWBY and could take whatever time was needed to allow the staff to get ahead instead of churning it out but it's become the factory now. diversity:LOCK got almost 2 years of pre-production, in comparison.

I was thinking more of how her deluded girl-crush lead her to do heinous things which the story ignores because lesbian, but yeah those too.

>If Qrow needed to fall-out with Ozpin then it should have been over knowingly putting civilians at risk.

It really hasn't come up again in a significant way, given they've been wandering around since C2 and there have been no other Grimm encounters caused by the presence of the relic. The rift between Qrow & Ozpin should be based in something more significant.

Since I was still tired from this morning, I decided to just listen to today's episode while in bed, and I felt embarrassed listening to this. So then I decided to actually get up and watch this episode and now I feel ashamed.

What the actual shit was today's episode? The gang decides on actually following Jaune's on the spot idea of stealing an aircraft and logically their poorly thought-out plan is being derailed, at least somewhat. I was hoping for Qrow to scold everyone for how dumb this plan was, but instead, he just goes, "Muh semblance, ugh, I am such a bad luck charm it's all my fault." And of course Ruby has to give off another heroic speech since reality bends to her will. Speaking of which, I like how Ruby believes that she and everyone in the gang have the ability to fight off a giant, long-legged military mech, and win. However, team rwby has battled mechs before anyway, so we'll see how this goes.

Also, I like how Blake, as usual, messes up everything. I honestly thought at first that the Adam she was fighting wasn't real, but just a mere illusion. However, the more the battle continued on, the more I started to believe that the real Adam was actually there. How dafuq did Adam manage to make it here, was he literally just stalking Blake until she was finally separated from the group? Regardless, at least Yang will now have to face her biggest cause of trauma I guess.

At this point, it honestly was contrived and it saddens me. A point of contention almost entirely disregarded all because. . . The writers are unable to write a drama that isn't melodramatic or forced in? I don't know.

> The lack of genuine tension from the Atlas Military and the lol random moments of comedy turns a desparate mission to going to Atlas to something sinilar to the climax of a Family movie.

> The baby at least has a more useful semblance that grandma.

> The more I see Yang and Blake together the more I hate their dynamics together. RT really want that Yellow Jacket.

> I just want Grandma to shut up at this point.

> Instead of Qrow actually taking charge and telling the kids that trying to go rogue can have actual consequences, Qrow’s pessimism just devolves into “I am a horrible person taking all of you with me I am bad luck charm” and Ruby just quickly solves it with “Well you are useless and a stupid adult, but you are stuck with us anyway. You are a good role model.” I was defending you, Qrow. Why?

> And if course Atlas Grandma will have a Giant Mecha for RWBY to kill. And all the threat for the Atlas Military drops from a 0 to a -10.

> And Blake now has to deal with Adam… why? I was more inclined to believe that both Yang and Blake gets looming Adam visions or have Adam be in a convincing disguise as a background extra secretly leading White Fang Atlas Division. But nah we gotta go straight to Blake and Yang fighting Adam so that they can finally scissor when they defeat him.

> Also good to know that all the ideologies of the White Fang just dissipates and becomes a shitty abusive relationship again. I rather Adam take vengeance on Blake for wanting the Faunus to be treated like pets again or something.

> But wait… a blindfold? Dont tell me Adam has Silver eyes too…

Overall I expected nothing from this episode. Maybe some tension to show how strong the Atlas Military can be to steal an airship. But the entire tone just ends up fucking horrible and immature that I am still let down anyway. No hopes next episode.

Ruby's FUCK YOU DAD speech is garbage since it's a forced way to remind the audience that Ruby's supposed to be the show's heroine/savior figure. Except for awhile she hasn't really done anything to show she deserves the position.

His fit doesn't work since it's over something that he should have already gone with Ozpin (Salem's immortality) if it was that important. As repeatedly pointed out here, it should be triggered by Ozpin legit crossing the line (like with him putting civilians or even Raven at risk).

Imagine Ozpin putting Raven at risk by manipulating her to be the Spring Maiden by being Patient Zero in that Magic-transferring machine and telling her hide it in front of everyone. And then during the battle of Haven, Qrow and Yang find out that Raven had the powers due to Ozpin's manipulation and realizing that everything she did from back then to now was because she found out the true history behind the Maiden Power and just wants to be left alone in fear of the harsh reality of the world. Plus the secret inferiority complex that she can never be better than Summer.

Basically, just have Raven BE the Secret Spring Maiden they were finding on the get go. Because Yang's been pretty goddamn boring ever since she considers her mom dead to her, and because of the revelations give her the initiative to meet her again and try to fix their relationship.

It's embarrassingly obvious that the showrunners are trying to build on the hints that Ozpin wasn't really what he seemed back when Monty was aboard and pander to those who insisted he'll be a villain. Like I said, they didn't want to make Ozpin do anything too heinous since they still want him to be on the side of "good.'' But they already decided to have RWBY with Qrow fall-out with Ozpin.

What you posted would make Qrow's hostility to Ozpin stronger, but wouldn't fit with the image we're supposed to have of Ozpin.

> WHY THE FUCK WOULD THEY CARE ABOUT A CRYING CHILD?! And how the fuck is that baby smart enough to follow a cue?

> Ruby is losing her squeaky voice. Some of you will like this and some of you won't. I'm not sure yet.

> Apart from Maria being in the suitcase, the plan isn't that bad feel free to call me out though. It's not bad considering the plan is "steal a plane". I've tried 2 or 3 times to think of alternatives here and when the plan went wrong, and every time they've done the smartest they could while not going beyond their means and capabilities. If we assume the bridge between Atlas and Mistral means there is no "dead zone" between them, it does mean you'd have to disable a radar tower or you can't go off course. Throwing the guards out of the plane is fine- assuming she took their comms. One less thing to worry about.

> Weiss would be more capable than Maria- VR headset or no. She was born in a time planes looked NOTHING like this I'd wager. At least Weiss may have gotten some Atlas training in her equivalent of Signal- and I can imagine learning to fly a plane or use the vehicles others don't have would be high up there- even just simulators for younger kids. The only person I'd wager would know more about flying is Qrow- depending on what sort of spy/black op shit he's been up to.

> Going back to the idea of Qrow being here instead of Maria- he could bullshit the tower more than her (he must be fairly silver-tongued to do the implied spy work and info gathering, he just chooses not to be 99% of the time), plus he could delay by claiming a hostage situation with Weiss. "Any plane comes near me and I shoot her". Can't imagine Cordo would want Weiss' death on her record.

> I do love the little detail of the radio shaking as Cordo shouts.

> Qrow is surprisingly unemotional despite the music and everyone's reaction. Plus he's not within a country mile of Weiss, so how can it be his fault? Yes he can be so emotional he feels it is despite logic, but at least have another character dissuade him to show he's blaming himself and to re-establish the rules of his semblance.

> Ok this is 1 to 100 way too fast. Not only is Cordo not justified in using the secret fucking mecha and probably terrifying the people of Argus into siding with Mistral instead of Atlas, but she's killing the daughter of the guy who fuels Atlas- army and all. There needs to be one more day between episode 9 and 10 where something happens to make Cordo this desperate- such as blackmail material against her, she's going to lose her job or be demoted (even if it's a minor black mark, she's so obsessed with her Atlas pride anything shy of perfect is inexcusable). She needs to have a decent reason to have a break-down. Then she's justified in thinking something like this (that'd cost her job at most) would somehow save her job.

> How did Adam lose his mask again? He had it last time we saw him, right?

> Yet again Blake is knocked down several pegs. She should almost be the inverse of how Yang used to be before the trauma. Blake should be angry and wanting to kill Adam, even if it puts herself in danger or the mission at cost, while Yang should be horrified and fighting like she forgot all her training.

> The fighting gets good, and all other animation and voice acting TANKS. And this comes from someone who liked the "And we'll never be ready" line. Though it still feels like both people are missing huge opportunities based on how fast they moved in the past.

Yet again the alternatives are tantalizing. Not only should Yang have a hate-boner for Ozpin for various reasons (may have permitted shitty treatment of Faunus while being "king" with Salem = White Fang and Adam, most likely is the reason why Summer is dead, Qrow is depressed, and Raven- even in normal continuity- went into hiding instead of being a Mom), but she's got a "free spirit" vibe, so if Raven was made into the maiden- even with her consent- she was locked into it and couldn't walk away.

She would certainly agree with those who thinks Ozpin made shit worse, but she wouldn't let anyone hurt Oscar (why hurt a kid who had nothing to do with it)- though that would fade as he starts to act a little more Ozpin. Trying to focus on everyone is hindered by her rough feelings to Ozcar and visions of Adam.

Raven's inferiority can come from Summer, and perhaps she ended up briefly fighting with Salem somehow and still got kicked the shit out of despite being a maiden. Imagine getting such amazing power, and you still can't do a thing to the world's greatest threat? I'd run for the hills. Plus it's a nice mirror to Yang's trauma from Adam.

I guess, the only thing that can make the Ozpin/Spring Maiden Raven thing work is on a sort of mutual agreement from the start. Like the whole "made a choice" bullshit referencing Pyrrha. Maybe she became the Maiden under the promise that she can protect her "hometown" with it, or a promise of higher favors from Ozpin. Remember that Team STRQ was basically a fave team of Ozpin back in the day, so it might not be too much of a stretch.

From Ozpin, I guess he chose Raven to be a Maiden out of that he believes not just on that she is one of the top students, but was also mysterious and mature enough to keep herself in hiding with the secret.

If anything, that would have been Yang's new resolution aside of just blindly following Ruby because "she knows the right thing": Because of her trauma of the past and meeting her mother, she becomes more like a smothering mother to EVERYONE in the group and actually attempts to keep them together (as a contrast to her past self who wants her own sister to be independent while she does whatever she wants) Basically a "Raven was a terrible mother… but I swear to my heart I won't be to mine."

>"The relic attracts Grimm?!" Quite literally in the first episode of this "volume"

It was mentioned in 2nd chapter and was never shown to have that effect thereafter. It had already been out of the vault for 2 weeks by the start of V6. They were wandering with it in the wilderness from C2 through the beginning of C7 and the relic attracting Grimm was never a factor. Remove Ozpin telling them about it and nothing else in the story changes.

Dropped in potentially Grimm filled waters, outside the range of towers so no communication possible, and that was after flying a bit out to sea in a jet. It's not like they were dropped with a raft either.

It's not inconceivable they could swim back if the current is kind and the Grimm don't show, since they are probably in pretty good shape. But it's not like she asked them if they could swim before dropping them.

Yeah, thus why I put airquotes on "hometown". Bandits dont stick to one place and also the possibility that Ozpin have Raven learn responsibility and becoming good with the Spring Maiden powers.

I think with Qrow, maybe he joined Ozpin and his missions because aside from escaping banditry, he was also promised that his semblance will be changed but often gets stalled or distracted. I can understand blind faith on why Qrow didn't ask Ozpin about his plan mostly because he stated that his main motive was mostly to escape the bandit life, defeating Salem was more a thank you.

>Raven's inferiority can come from Summer, and perhaps she ended up briefly fighting with Salem somehow and still got kicked the shit out of despite being a maiden. Imagine getting such amazing power, and you still can't do a thing to the world's greatest threat? I'd run for the hills. Plus it's a nice mirror to Yang's trauma from Adam.

Yeah I think she would have a hand with fighting Salem and realizing her mistake. Thus I can imagine Salem tracking Raven down and killing her actual normal family, thus a reasont o run away from it.

>jesus the whole 3d model of the statue looks terrible. I know its just a BG prop but it sticks out like a sore thumb

Are you questioning the power of Maya & 3ds Max? You're not one of those dirty unbelievers are you? Now I know you're watching the show wrong, you're just supposed to soak up the FEELZ, anon. Don't you want to be like everybody else?

Did anyone else notice that they are trying to destroy the city's ability to fight off very large Grimm? Ruby's decision to fight the big thing is a terrible decision for the people of… where the fuck is this shit-hole again.

I wonder why are people cheering this dull and sluggish episode for the fight scenes. A lot of the fight scenes don't feel rewarding and all it was is basically because script said so. Like they just throw those who still want that old Monty Fight scenes would look at this and say "OMG THEY ARE IMPROVING AND HOLY FUCKING SHIT THEY ARE DOING GOOD-"

And then… >>37297 happened and we realize that CRWBY are getting desperate for the old Monty days that are just grabbing his scraps to at least have people like it. They don't study or learn fight choreography or git gud.

Maybe they should have killed RWBY when they had the chance, but the Branding is all they got with this now.

Hell, the Blake and Adam fight scene didn't even make sense in that it's merely reduced to being "Feminist Lesbians Against Abusive Ex Boyfriend." No White Fang/Faunus Ideology clash. No, "Why are you helping THEM, Blake?" It's just devolves into Wasp Shipping.

>Hell, the Blake and Adam fight scene didn't even make sense in that it's merely reduced to being "Feminist Lesbians Against Abusive Ex Boyfriend." No White Fang/Faunus Ideology clash. No, "Why are you helping THEM, Blake?" It's just devolves into Wasp Shipping.

It's not like Adam has ever had any character beyond being an edgelord who yells about the catgirl Master Race and BLAKKKEEE.

> She fucked her bike. She loved that bike and just drove it into the ocean.

They had her drag it around the whole volume just for this moment. I couldn't figure out why she'd bring it along once they left Haven until Adam showed up last chapter. It was one long set up to a poorly delivered punchline.

CRWBY's remaking of animations that Monty made for the Yang vs. Adam portion of the fight which was supposed to have happened back in V3. Part of his work for the original Blake/Adam Yang/Adam fight was leaked early last year. While there was a little more to the leak, which was by no means complete, I only edited in the confirmed moves they remade.

Holy…I knew something was fishy when that fight wasn't the usual mediocre schlock that RT pushes out post V3. This is a new low for them. Just mercy kill the series already since the golden goose Monty is already six feet under.

late reply, but I don't think the use of mo-cap is the main cause of the general fight scene mediocrity. Many action videogames use mo-cap for unrealistic shit at does it well, that said they have about 9 times the budget of roosterteeth so that's an obvious factor. Many of them just aren't as "dynamic" for lack of a better world, baring some exceptions like the cinder vs Neo fight.

>Hell, the Blake and Adam fight scene didn't even make sense in that it's merely reduced to being "Feminist Lesbians Against Abusive Ex Boyfriend." No White Fang/Faunus Ideology clash. No, "Why are you helping THEM, Blake?" It's just devolves into Wasp Shipping.

I thought this too, but then I went back and watched the Blake/Adam fight in V3, and that was it. Their conflict has always been about a possessive person vs. "their property that ran away".

What you linked didn't have mocap, it's just choreography, of which artists used to template with. Mocap has its use for general choreography, but not anime fly high air dash giant punch to the heavens counter flash fight scenes. What >>37300 linked is retarded af, because Smash actually has characters fly, 20+meters flight: and where's the shield, where's just shield, no Link arrows, no PK magnet, no PK lighting, no boomerang, no Mario brick break[1], no Mario Cap, no items, no gaps, no stocks or timer..

Seriously a good example of anime fight is Vampire Savior,[2] even if the most anime fighting game is Melty Blood.[3]

>What you linked didn't have mocap, it's just choreography, of which artists used to template with.

Did we watch the same video? They appear in mo-cap suits several times. Also my point wasn't that mo-cap can replicate "anime fly high dash gland punch," but the use of mo-cap isn't the reason the fight scenes are generally mediocre. What's shown in the video is in my opiion, much better than what's been seen in post-monty RWBY. Though rereading some of what's been said in the thread, I don't think anyone even insinuated that was the reason the fights are mediocre, so I was arguing with no one. My bad.

>What's shown in the video is in my opiion, much better than what's been seen in post-monty RWBY.

Completely agreed

>I was arguing with no one. My bad

Np.

I just know Devil May Cry isn't as anime as say Touhou Hisoutensoku. If Montey Oum meant to replicate Final Fantasy VII in plot for RWBY, which btw they are succeeding, Remnant aka Gaia is getting all it's Dust depleted before Salem even shows up.

Because that was during the time Arryn turned the potential Mentor/Student relation that Monty set up INTO Muh Abusive relationship. Like they just ruined Adam's potential ideology even BEFORE he reunited with Blake.

The thing I posted was more that they don't talk or put full blown stops about their plans mid fight, so the flow of the fight scenes fare a lot better. Comparing that to the latest episode where they still gotta talk mid-fight what their plan is. I mean Smash is shit and was expecting more weapons, but I will admit the fight scene here was good with that they have.

>Which obviously couldn't. But thanks now things make sense: there's no improvement, only stealing the last few scraps left.

Yeah, and people on twitter are defending all this saying "They just wanna honor Monty's death ;3; plz don't bully" But the problem is that they were under the guise that they WERE improving, but instead of actually doing that they just stole Monty's files and say they were working hard. Like it's LAZY.

>Because that was during the time Arryn turned the potential Mentor/Student relation that Monty set up INTO Muh Abusive relationship. Like they just ruined Adam's potential ideology even BEFORE he reunited with Blake.

>Is about to kill of train passengers

>Blake asks about the passengers

>Adam says "Heh, what about them?"

>This totally isn't "Pssh nothing personal kid" level of edge"

He was an edgelord from the start. The failure to establish any on-screen serious Fantasy Racism against faunus instead of just dumping it in infodump speeches makes the attempts to make him/White Fang look sympathetic when they work with giant monsters that destroy towns one big failure.

> I just love how none are talking how Blake just left the White Fang to hang. Whatever happened "taking back the White Fang?"

Again, they threw that White Fang shit out of the window. We all gotta assume everything in Blake's side story worked out well enough to not be bothered until the plot brings it up again. Plus fantards want a battered oppressed catgirl yuri waifu for Yang to scissor her new feminist beliefs with.

>Ah, I don't use social networks, esp. In-Q-Tel designed ones to profit off people

Personally, I'm more of a "pleb" person myself, I'm bi, the joke is that we have to believe Yang's feminist views are actually development, and historically Zhuge Liang was a horrible strategist but he basically wrote the history and archives of Shu with his own personal opinions, thus people turn a terrible tactician into the ultimate Gary Stu insert.

The White Fang's role from the standpoint of RWBY's adventures is to provide hordes of faunus minions for Team RWBY and Friends to fight who connect to Blake (the token faunus). Blake, being maybe the least relevant of Team RWBY derails from the rest of the plot to do her little vacation in Catgirlland. Now that it's over and Ilia got her forced redemption, the Badwrong White Fang/Adam have nothing to do but show up to fight Blake's posse until it's time for a forced redemption (like dying fighting Salem once she shows she's a threat to faunus instead of the Untermenschen).

I already said this in another thread but they might as well have made the White Fang an army of bandits/mercenaries who just operate from Faunusland with the Catgirl Civil Rights movement gone. Blake can be the daughter of its founder who quit once Adam rose to power and took them in a meaner direction.