Re: That Gift of Your Unholy Spirit Made Holy (Acts 2:38)

January 20 2013, 11:25 PM

Thanks: I missed that one

[3.] And still others firmly believe that the Holy Spirit is each person's personal spirit (soul) that is made holy when s/he becomes a Christian according to the requirements set forth in the New Testament.

That is certainly not what I have said and said and said.

The Holy Spirit as Being is named Jesus Christ the Righteous (1 John 2) as the same promised Paraklete in John 14

The Holy Spirit is also the WORDS of Jesus Christ (John 6:63) because that is how the Personal Holy Spirit Of Christ speaks to us.

The Spirit in Ephesians 5 is the Word of Christ in Colossians 3.

HOWEVER, we are promised the GIFT of A holy spirit. Spirit is an adjective and never ever speaks of beings other than EVIL SPIRITS. God CONSISTS wholly (holy) of Spirit and does not have flesh and blood and bones. However, he is not a GHOST.

If OUR spirit is UNholy than when sins are REMITTED or washed away ONLY by request at baptism (1 Peter 3:21) then we have A good conscience, consciousness meaning a CO-PERCEPTION of the Word of Christ. You need a purged spirit or conscience to free the rubbish so that you can SEE and HEAR and READ the Word of God which ARE spirit and simply will not reside in an UNholy or UNwashed spirit.

Our spirit (lower case) is NOT The Holy Spirit OF God or Spirit (mind) of Christ. You can be filled with the MIND of Christ but your carnal body cannot be filled with A GOD PERSON. The fluttering like a dove (rock or carrier pigeon) rested UPON Jesus and did not fly into Him.

Holy Spirit Measured

January 20 2013, 11:48 PM

Some also believe that that the Holy Spirit is the power of God but not a person, and that it can be "measured." In this way it manifests itself in manifold ways. Closely allied with scripture, it goes into partial wait states, such as the period after the prophets in the Old Testament, and after the first century church and the completion of scriptures. In the last days, it may reassert itself, at least according to some views.

"The Spirit of God Is in My Nostrils" (Job 27:3)

I am not convinced, based on lack of evidence in the Scripture, that "the Holy Spirit" is a separate God-being UNLESS we refer to:

(1) The Father who is wholly a "spirit" [without flesh, John 4:24] and is HOLY [I Peter 1:16,17]

---------------- or -----------------

(2) The Son who was the physical comforter [John 14:16,18] and the truth [John 14:6] while He was with His disciples and who became the "another" Comforter [John 14:16,18] and "the Spirit of truth [John 16:17] after resurrection.

Otherwise, all the references to the Spirit (OF GOD) have to do with how that Spirit manifested itself in various ways throughout Biblical times. It is important to note that throughout the entire Old Testament, there is not even the slightest suggestion of the Spirit OF God as a separate being. Period. There is not a single indication that the man-concocted notion of a "God in Three Persons" exists.

The Old Testament has the Spirit of God manifest itself as "power" during creation (Gen. 1:2) or breath (Job 33:4; 27:3), etc. Can you imagine the Trinitarians using this passage to prove their dogma? Here's the passage: "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils" (Job 27:3). Right, the Holy Ghost (THIRD PERSON according to Trinitarians) has made ""HIS" residence in my nostrils.

In the New Testament, God's Spirit has manifested itself in different ways: also as "power" or "wind" (Acts 1,2) or the "mind" of the Lord or Jesus Christ (Romans 8:27; 11:34; I Cor. 2:16). [May be continued....]

The war is on

January 21 2013, 9:47 AM

Consider the scriptures that the spirit has stated that some shall depart from the faith giving heed to the doctrines of devils.

It further states that we should put on the whole armor of God - that we are in battle and war with satan. Those that are minded to be faithful should be reminded that they will have to endure hardship and persecution.

These issues about baptism and the Holy Spirit are a distraction on teaching the lost the essential and absolute need for baptism for remission of sins and the need to obey Gods word rather than follow the ideas of men about the Holy Spirit. Consider that those who teach that the Holy Spirit is a separate mind may follow with "Holy Spirit has led them to other ways of doing things" than what is taught in the scriptures. This is an end run around a strict interpretation of the Bible.

The faithful church will in a steady fashion teach that baptism is a command of God and without it the promise of God will not be received. Those that continue to spread false ideas should be marked and avoided as specified in Romans 16.

Re: This Is a Religious Discussion Board--Agreeing Is Not a Requirement

January 21 2013, 10:54 PM

Rocky,

I understand now, although at the time I was honestly misled by your "reaction." I thought that the linked image caption did not correctly represent the intended contrast we've been emphasizing. I think I have clarified the misconception, hopefully.

May I add that:

(1) If the gift in Acts 2:38 refers to the receiving of the Holy Ghost [thought of as the Trinity's 3rd "person"], what does that type of reception really do to the newly baptized? Does he begin behaving like a modern-day Charismatic? Can he perform miraculous acts or speak in tongues? To a member of the church of Christ, do you recall how you felt or what you experienced after being buried with Christ in baptism?

(2) If the gift in Acts 2:38 refers to the unholy spirit of man being made holy, I believe that this is the proper translation [without the predisposed belief in the Trinity]. It makes sense, too, that after baptism: (a) the new Christian has had his sins forgiven in His blood and (b) the new Christian's unholy spirit has been made holy -- he now has a "holy spirit," meaning pure and blameless; he is refreshed; he has a clear conscience. NO, he does not become Charismatic.

Re: The war is on

January 21 2013, 2:34 PM

Jesus told the Apostles that the HOLY SPIRIT had been WITH them but in the future would be IN them. Jesus returned to the Father of All spirits and received the PROMISE of the Holy Spirit. That means (for word readers)that Jesus received the OFFICE of MISSION as The Holy Spirit. God BREATED on Jesus and He articulated the breathed (spirit) words. He would RETURN and He did and "poured out what you see and hear." They HEARD the BREATH and SAW the divided tongues. Jesus continued to be King and High Priest over HIS kingdom or Church. There is no "statute of limitations" on the WORDS which Jesus said ARE SPIRIT. Now, you can deny that if you probably wish.

Paul told even the simple simons that

The Holy Spirit is to GOD
what OUR spirit is to US.
explained as "but WE have the MIND of Christ."

Only those baptized INTO THE SCHOOL OF CHRIST are given A holy spirit which the same peter called A good conscience ONLY by request at baptism.

Now, only those with an UNholy spirit have any weapons with which to fight.

A person with A holy spirit is a person with A good conscience is a person with A mind free from fighting against the SIMPLE word of God. That is why even ELDERS are not permitted to read BLACK text on WHITE paper. When people get rattled they get giddy.

The war is on

John Watson, it is good that you connect dissembling spirits with doctrinal error.

Paul, when reviewing the various manifestations of the spirit in 1 Corinthians 12 through 14, said that any who profess to be speaking by the Spirit of God must affirm that Jesus is Lord (12:3).

In other words, there must be a teaching check of every person professing to speak God's word. Those say that they speak by the Spirit are no exception. After the completion of the 29 New Testament books, not only are there to be checks on affirming Jesus is Lord, but on other teachings as well. Each church member can contribute to correct teaching by being knowledgeable individually. Churches drift when their membership become unfamiliar with the Written Word. Maybe you could measure Biblical illiteracy by the percentage of attendees who bring their Bible to church.

We can all learn more perfectly the Lord's will with continued study of His Word.

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

Re: Baptism: The Saddleback Way

The Spirit of God is the Spirit OF Christ is the MIND of Christ in the same sense that OUR spirit is OURS and is our mind and NOT a little person.

1Corinthians 2:11 For what man KNOWETH the things of a man,
.....save the spirit OF man which is IN him?
even so the THINGS of God knoweth no man,
.....but the Spirit of God.

1Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world,
.....but the spirit which is of God; .....that we might know the things
.....that are freely given to us of God.

1Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak,.....not in the words which mans wisdom teacheth,
.....but which the Holy Ghost teacheth;
.....comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

1Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:
.....for they are foolishness unto him:
.....neither can he know them,
.....because they are spiritually discerned.
1Corinthians 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Corinthians 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord,
..... that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

"A" holy spirit simply lets you know what the Spirit OF CHRIST has delivered. This is important because ALL hostile discord is concocting a VISION and pretending that the Holy Spirit told you to do something so violent that it takes a cult-like shepherding to get all of the "frogs" boiled. At least half will jump out and refuse to be boiled and "sow discord." Don't drink their KoolAid.

Baptism

April 22 2013, 11:06 PM

Rick Warren says:

Baptism doesnt make you a member of Gods family; only faith in Christ does that. Baptism shows you are part of Gods family. Like a wedding ring, it is a visible reminder of an inward commitment made in your heart. It is an act of initiation, not something you put off until you are spiritually mature. The only biblical condition is that you believe.

Really, Madison, do you like to read Rick Warren, or are you getting a little sick of him?

...........................THE BOOK

What Happened at the Madison Church of Christ?

There are thousands of churches being taken over across America.

This book is only about one of those churches. It's about the Madison
Church Of Christ. By studying the methods used here along with the resource
references you might be able to inoculate your church. At the very least
you will recognize the signs early on.

Many of the current members of the Madison Church of Christ still don't
know what happened.
Some never will know! This book is for them as well.

Madison Church of Christ was a 60 year old church. At one time it was
one of the largest churches in the US, and the largest Church of Christ.

It thrived for many years on the vision of it's elders and those of
it's ministers. Those visions undoubtably came from the the inspired word
of Jesus Christ.

At sometime in the last 10 years there was a deliberate plan by a majority
of the elders to take the Madison Church of Christ into a more worldly
realm.

They used secrecy, covert planning, and outside sources to scheme and
to change the format and direction of the Madison Church of Christ.

The Elders knew that the membership would never approve such a plan.
Using the tools of the "Community Church Movement"(consultants, books,
seminars, meetings,planters,seeders) they slowly started initiating change
so it was never noticed by the members until it was too late.....

At the heart of the plan was the fact that old members were going to
be driven off so new techniques could be used to go out and reach the unchurched
through new "Contemporary Holy Entertainment" methods developed by the
"Community Church Movement"

Old members had to be kept on board long enough to get their plans ready,
or the funds would not be there to pay for the new building. So by the
plans very nature, it had to be secret.

The church had no plan in effect to renew or approve elders. There was
never any need. The elders had always been "as approved by God". 10 of the last
15 elders would begin to shed some doubt on that.

The Elders did not even need a majority at first, because some of the
elders went along unwittingly.

This edition starts shortly after some of the members begin to smell
something strange in January 2001. Later editions may go back and fill
in some of the timeline.

To even start to understand whats happening here, you must read the
background materials in the first of the book.

This is only the first edition, and not the end. New editions will be
printed as needed. To keep abreast of current changes, please visit our
web site; http://www.concernedmembers.com/madison

Here is the list of players;

5 Godly Elders
10 Not so Godly Elders
120 "Deacons" (allegiance unknown)
2,800 - 4,000 church "members"
2 "teners" (people who have publicly confessed to have broken all ten
commandments)
Unknown number of "sinners" (This is what the 10 elders call us.)
Unknown number of "demons" (Flying everywhere, to many to count)