Hi Jim, as always, you show a keen eye.
: )
Seems I'm inordenately attracted to swedish swords, I have no idea why.
Regarding knowledge, I do believe Khanjar is far more versed in that area.
Best

M

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Hi Michael and Manuel,

You seem to have some interesting examples and knowledge on Swedish weapons Manuel. Is this one of your fields of interest? There really is not a great deal of information around on them, and its great to see them posted here to learn more about them.

Cornelistromp, these are wonderful items, thank you for posting. So far I like #2 in particular, bacause of the "munition grade" appearance, not counting the unusual decoration of the copper (?) rivets in the guard. I would love to see a photo of all 4 swords togather, to see the entire blades and relative sizes.

Cornelistromp, these are wonderful items, thank you for posting. So far I like #2 in particular, bacause of the "munition grade" appearance, not counting the unusual decoration of the copper (?) rivets in the guard. I would love to see a photo of all 4 swords togather, to see the entire blades and relative sizes.

thank you.
ps:All the katzbalger of this particular type ( the 3 pieces I know) , have the same copper fillings at the quard.

The authors of these are credited by giving their flickr. akas together with each picture.

Michael

interesting picture there,
in the painting with the knight with the white plumed helmet at his feet the made is depicted as being of african origin....
this is interesting,
what is the meaning being displayed in the picture?
or is this from some factuial event showing a individuial who exsisted in history??

or is it just the artist using artistic license to make the picture more interesting??
im sure there were some africans in europe at the time , as the were in the middle east and ottoman possetions , aspecialy in istabul. and although id presume they were for the most part held as slaves no doubt some would have been free or would have been able to get to non moslem areas where slavery was not common or forbidden.

brings up another interesting topic, as to how much interacion there was medieval between the middle east and north africa and europe..

i have read some place that there is records dating from the 13th century showing arabs and persians being employed in the production of crossbows bars in london...... i wonder..

Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking

Posts: 4,310

Ausjulius,

The depiction that you referred to is part of an altar piece by Hans Baldung Grien called The Adoration of the Magi. According to the New Testament, one of the Magi was Melchior and he indeed is said to have been of African nationality. So this knight represents Melchior.

Don't worry too much about seeing an African wearing a South German early Renaissance suit of armor. In fact, it has nothing to do with the actual historic clothing of African people 500 years ago. The reason why the master painter sort of put him into this armor lies in the fact that the early 16th century Germans who this altar piece was made for wished any work of art to reflect their own contemporary culture, including knightly suits of armor.

When interpreting sources of illustration it is very important to keep in mind the general historic self image of people and both their religious basis and everyday environment at those periods of time.

The depiction that you referred to is part of an altar piece by Hans Baldung Grien called The Adoration of the Magi. According to the New Testament, one of the Magi was Melchior and he indeed is said to have been of African nationality. So this knight represents Melchior.

Don't worry too much about seeing an African wearing a South German early Renaissance suit of armor. In fact, it has nothing to do with the actual historic clothing of African people 500 years ago. The reason why the master painter sort of put him into this armor lies in the fact that the early 16th century Germans who this altar piece was made for wished any work of art to reflect their own contemporary culture, including knightly suits of armor.

When interpreting sources of illustration it is very important to keep in mind the general historic self image of people and both their religious basis and everyday environment at those periods of time.

Michael

yes this is true.

i did not know the painting so i was interested in the origin of the image.
i understand there is a german saint from roman times who was popular in the past in some parts of western germany , who is typicaly depicted as being of african origin..?

Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking

Posts: 4,310

Well, Ausjulius,

Actually the African King and Magi Melchior was not a specifically German person but a Christian Saint who, accompanied by two more kings (magi), had followed a star and come a long way from the East to see and adore the new born Jesus Christ. To be exact, The Lord Jesus Christ was not just popular in some parts of Western Germany at some time but has been one of the most imoprtant religious leaders wordwide for two thousand years. He founded Christianity.