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Subject: Skunk Works Digest V5 #572
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Skunk Works Digest Saturday, 16 December 1995 Volume 05 : Number 572
In this issue:
Re: Waverider [NASP]
U-2s to deploy to France
Boeing programs
CREDIBLE SPORT C-130
Derivatives
re: grounding of SR-71s
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From: sschaper@mo.net (Steve Schaper)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 14:51:01 -0600
Subject: Re: Waverider [NASP]
These projectiles are being designed for hypersonic gliding to radically
increase the range of Naval guns.
------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 16:10:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: U-2s to deploy to France
Latest news from the French Defense Ministry:
The USAF plans to fly photo-reconnaissance missions from the French air base
at Istres, to back the NATO IFOR (peace implementation force) in former
Yugoslavia. Five U-2s and 130 staff from the 9th RW (Reconnaissance Wing),
9th OG (Operations Group), 99th RS (Reconnaissance Squadron), based at Beale
AFB, CA, will be deployed at the air base in southern France near Marseille
and will start to fly missions next month.
I am not sure what units are currently based at BA 125 (Base Aerienne = Air
Base #125) Istres/Le Tube, but I belive some Jaguars from of EC 4/7 (Escadron
de Chasse 'Limousin' = 4th Fighter Squadron of 7th Fighter Wing) were based
there until the unit was disbanded on 7/31/1989. There is/was also a
detachment of the CEAM (Centre d'Experiences Aeriennes Militaires = Military
Aviation Test Center) and maybe also one from the CEV (Centre d'Essais en Vol
= Flight Test Center). Maybe one of our French subscribers can fill in some
details -- Jean-Pierre Pharabod maybe?
I believe this is the first time in the U-2 history, that they are deployed
in France.
- -- Andreas
- --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- --- ---
------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:20:55 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Boeing programs
Paul quoted Boeing and asked for further information on the following:
>"To improve the company's ability to respond quickly to customer needs,
> a new rapid prototyping process has been developed... One such product
> is Heliwing, an unmanned air vehicle that takes off and lands vertically
> like a helicopter, flies horizontally like an airplane, and can provide
> aerial reconnaissance without putting a pilot at risk."
The HeliWing UAV was sponsored by the USAF, but the sole prototype crashed
shortly after its first flight earlier this year, and the project is no
longer funded. The HeliWing looked like a miniature version of the Hiller
X-18, but was a tail-sitter. I don't think it was tilting its wing, but
instead changed its attitude, like Ryan's X-13 e.g.
>"The Defense and Space Group is on the forward edge of military and space
> technology... Other potential opportunities being pursued include a
> possible replacement for NASA's aging Space Shuttle fleet."
That might be their proposal for the X-33 (or another SSTO/TSTO RLV) they
were working on, possibly together with MDD.
>"The current major developmental programs, principally [are] the Space
> Station, F-22 fighter, V-22 Osprey tiltrotor aircraft and RAH-66
> Comanche helicopter... the major revenue-producing programs [also]
> include... continuing B-2 bomber subcontract work, other program
> support, and classified project activities."
Space Station, F-22, V-22, RAH-66 and B-2 are fairly well known, and other
"classified project activities" sound very interesting, and may include
upgrades of E/K/N/O/R/WC-135 and other military applications of their
commercial airliners, like B-707s and B-747s.
Of course, they probably also work on really 'classified' programs, we don't
know about (yet).
- -- Andreas
- --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- --- ---
------------------------------
From: Kathryn & Andreas Gehrs-Pahl
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:07:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CREDIBLE SPORT C-130
Sherman,
In reply to your (following) post to r.a.m, I may have some information for
you. I also forward this post to the Skunk Works mailing list.
Sherman Collings wrote:
>I'm looking for information/photographs on the CREDIBLE SPORT C-130. These
>highly modified Hercs were to be used on a second Iran rescue attempt called
>OPERATION HONEY BADGER. They were equipped with retro-rockets, high-lift
>wings and booster rockets. One is on display at Warner-Robins AFB, but has
>had almost all of its special equipment removed. I saw a full-up CREDIBLE
>SPORT on the Lockheed ramp at Marietta in 1984, but of course, no
>photographs were allowed.
>I manufacture resin model aircraft kits and would like to accurately
>represent this Amazing Herc. Thanks
I read about these aircraft in 1988 in the following book:
Title: Colors and Markings of the C-130 Hercules
Subtitle: Special Purpose Aircraft
Author: Ray Leader
Series: Colors & Markings - C&M Vol. 7
Publisher: Detail & Scale Inc.
Publisher: TAB Books Inc., Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17214, USA
Year: 1987
ISBN: 0-8306-8531-6 (pbck)
On pages 3 and 4 in the introduction, Bert Kinzey from Detail & Scale writes:
"While there may be some short-lived one-of-a-kind uses of the Hercules that
are not covered, major "Special purpose" programs are included with one
notable exception. Three airframes were specially modified to take-off and
land in a very short distance, with the intention being to use them to
extract the American hostages in Iran. Information about these aircraft has
been released, but to our knowledge, no photograph has been published to
date. While we were able to take general and detailed photographs of one of
these aircraft, both in-flight and on the ground, we have been asked not to
publish them for security reasons. We are complying with this request, and
are not including these photographs in this publication. A lot of controversy
has been stirred up lately over the release of several F-19 Stealth models,
and certainly the American press has many times released information and
photographs that they have been aseked not to because of security reasons.
They cite the public's "right to know" to excuse their actions. We do not
share this philosophy, and choose to be more concerned with those who may
have to fly these aircraft in the future, and with those in the defense
establishment who are concerned with defending our freedoms and rights, than
we are in presenting a "scoop" in one of our publications or becoming part of
a controversy. Perhaps we will be able to publish these unusual photographs
in a future Detail & Scale publication when the time is right, and when they
are not considered sensitive. But for now we have decided to leave them out
of this book."
I don't believe they ever published those photographs, but maybe now is the
time to ask them to do so. I would also be personally interested in the
serial numbers of those three airframes.
- -- Andreas
- --- ---
Andreas & Kathryn Gehrs-Pahl E-Mail: schnars@ais.org
313 West Court St. #305 or: gpahl@raptor.csc.flint.umich.edu
Flint, MI 48502-1239
Tel: (810) 238-8469 WWW URL: http://www.umcc.umich.edu/~schnars/
- --- ---
------------------------------
From: Greg Fieser
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 17:54:08 -0600
Subject: Derivatives
This may be a bit off topic, but if you consider the recent discussions of
who copied whose aircraft (MiG-25 vs. A3J/A-5), maybe not...
Does anyone know if the Curtiss XP-55 Ascender (ass-ender) design was derived
from the Japanese Shinden Kyushu (J7), or possibly vice versa? I've only seen
artist's depictions of each, and don't have any dimensional or chronological
information, but there IS a great deal of resemblance (pardon my ignorance if
this relationship is considered common knowledge)...
Greg Fieser
(since I am self-employed, the above views DO reflect those of my employer)
------------------------------
From: albert.dobyns@mwbbs.com (ALBERT DOBYNS)
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 17:56:00 -0500
Subject: re: grounding of SR-71s
MS> Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 13:51:28 -0500 (EST)
> From: Mary Shafer
> Subject: re: grounding of SR-71s
MS> Er, it costs a great deal more than 35K per hour to fly the SR-71,
> particularly if you're the Air Force.
Mary, I have wondered about the operating costs of the SR-71 from time
to time. $35K/hour is the lowest value I've seen. Some books and
magazine and newspaper articles have listed costs ranging from $50K to
$250K per hour. What is never made clear is just what specific costs
they are using to come up with their numbers. If you leave out the
cost of the tankers and all the support needed to keep them flying,
then I can see how a lower number is quoted. Perhaps there is some
standard formula one should use in figuring out the hourly rate and
I'm just not aware of it. Can you disclose what NASA charges its
customers? Even a ballpark figure would be interesting, but if that
violates NASA policy then forget I asked.
MS> Regards,
> Mary
And regards from Al.
- ---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ ... thistaglinebroughttoyoubythemakersofpkzip ...
------------------------------
End of Skunk Works Digest V5 #572
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