When you're ROing a stage, and you're either running the timer, scoring, or both, how often do you check that the shooter is shooting the firearm listed on the score sheet, and that the firearm is eligible to shoot in the corresponding division?

I typically confirm that if the sticker says G17, that I see the G17 on the side of the slide. At the last match I noticed a few other competitors waiting to shoot talking about their stippling and grip reductions on otherwise stock looking guns. Now, I did not run them, but I have some doubt that they were running in unlimited, but they very well may have been.

So I was just curious if, as an RO, you saw someone with stippling or a grip reduction shooting in AMCiv or Comp that you'd call them out and/or refuse to run them on the stage.

emtjr928

11-09-2012, 18:08

I do make a quick "look see". If I saw something obvious, I would point it out. If the shooter complained, I would refer the matter to the GSSF Rangemaster and move on to the next entry. Just trying to have a "fair" match for all shooters. Same as fudging on finger or start position.

PM720

11-09-2012, 18:21

I called out a stippled grip on Saturday and something else which escapes me at the moment. The way we were told is just make a note of it on the scoresheet and GSSF will make the final determination on whether to bump them to Unlimited. I think the guy I called on the grip was probably mid-pack so I am sure they will leave him alone. If it were a top 10 guy I am sure they would bump them. I should try and remember these to see what they decide.

I think one of the indicators would be how much complaining the guy does. This guy seemed to genuienly not know and accepted his fate. I think the real screamers probably know and are trying to skate/bully through.

I asked Mark about rear covers and he said there were not really concerend about that potential situation. :dunno:

Scott

SARDG

11-09-2012, 19:29

If I'm CRO, I take a look for unauthorized mods; if I am scorekeeper, I usually ask/repeat the model on the scoresheet as a Scorekeeper/Competitor confirmation. Neither really resembles a formal 'inspection', though I have specifically caught things like magwells, slide cover plates, and aftermarket barrels. Known and obvious mods should be noted on the scoresheet without arguing or debating with the shooter.

For mods like an aftermarket barrel, they can be switched back if the shooter has his other barrel with him or her; but if you just ask a shooter to do that without making a note on their scoresheet, they may just move on to a different stage, with another RO who may or may not notice (or note the barrel). The entire process can be a battle - particularly if the competitor is determined to cheat. (Think unknown internals...)

BTW, this is as good a time as any to mention that Mark (and Cindy) mentioned in a conversation in Mobile that plastic (unweighted) magwells, plastic (unweighted) 'butt' plugs, and aftermarket slide cover plates will be accepted on stock guns.

1RoundEye

11-09-2012, 19:44

Good to know bout noting it on the score sheet. I probably would have verbally confronted them if it was something like a shiny silver bbl.

PM720

11-09-2012, 23:57

Mark said the same thing to us Kitty. I think I saw about 10 guys in Civ with the plastic magwells. My new (used) G34 came with one too.

Scott

ede

11-10-2012, 04:31

Most of the time it's one gun one divisions shooters. If it's a two gun two divisiion shooter they'll tell you what they're shooting. My pretty little score keeper does a good job of asking the shooter what they're shooting so she has the right score sheet. As a rule I don't really check becasue the shoote and my score keeper does. I do count rounds especially in MSub but also if I think they've blazed away at the Plates and not hit anything. Nearly all the time I'm wrong but sometimes I catch someone. I do look for aftermarket parts. Had a shooter at the last match using G17 mags in a G26 with a grip filler on the mags. Told him he couldn't use them and offered him a couple of my mags. He argued a bit with me, said he's shot at least 10 matches and they've never been a problem, which I believe since most GSSF ROs aren't GSSF shooters.

legacy38

11-10-2012, 08:14

I was at a match where a person was trying to shoot a G27 in Major Sub and argued, along their entourage, vehemently with the ROs on the matter. They lost.

The above doesn't begin to tell the entire story.

Noah Gladstone

11-12-2012, 16:55

I always look to see if the gun being used matches the rules. I have had people argue with me but I dont let it get to me. The playing field should be level.

dvrdwn72

11-22-2012, 10:08

I always take the time to glance at the gun and make sure it meets the "rules of its division", weather its uspsa,idpa,or gssf. If there is a mod. that is in a "grey" area and provides no advantage to the shooter in a particular shooting event such as plastic magwells, back plate,plastic plug in gssf. I tend to let it go. If I believe it gives an advantage, or something is suspect ill call em out. Ro'ing uspsa and idpa is where it gets much more complicated compared to gssf.

dvrdwn72

11-22-2012, 10:10

Where I have gotten into a challenge is when a shooter fires more rounds than what is allowed in a division.

ede

11-22-2012, 12:34

*****

dvrdwn72

11-22-2012, 12:43

some shooters are fairly fast and it can be a bit hard, not so much for gssf, but idpa and uspsa it can be difficult. But yes, 90% of the time with shooters, the timer tells.

ede

11-23-2012, 03:52

some shooters are fairly fast and it can be a bit hard, not so much for gssf, but idpa and uspsa it can be difficult. But yes, 90% of the time with shooters, the timer tells.

I don't think there's any shooter that can shoot faster than the timer. The timer should catch 100% of the shots fired if not it's operator error or the sensitivity is too low which brings us back to operator error.

emtjr928

11-23-2012, 04:32

That shouldn't be a problem at all, the timer counts shots fired and the rules are either 7 or 11 rounds.

Well,,, actually 5 to Glock is 10 Max.:whistling:

Glockrunner

11-23-2012, 07:48

Well,,, actually 5 to Glock is 10 Max.:whistling:

No you can still load 11 rounds. I think that was the gest of the post.

SARDG

11-23-2012, 08:26

No you can still load 11 rounds. I think that was the gest of the post.
Heck, you could still shoot 11 rounds... you'd simply be assessed an extra-shot penalty, and the timer would be a confirmation of the hit count and the holes (maybe). A USPSA shooter in Mobile or Conyers (I've forgotten) tried to shoot M as 'Comstock' (or unlimited Vickers in IDPA). (He had been shooting GSSF for years and that's the way it's always been - he told me so...) He got a reshoot and some CoF lessons.

emtjr928

11-23-2012, 08:34

Where I have gotten into a challenge is when a shooter fires more rounds than what is allowed in a division.

:dunno:
I thought fires means fires. The poster did not reference how many were loaded.

SARDG

11-23-2012, 09:20

:dunno:
I thought fires means fires. The poster did not reference how many were loaded.
But remember, the competitor may fire 12,13 rounds or more - the sky's the limit. :crying:

Glockrunner

11-23-2012, 09:42

Heck, you could still shoot 11 rounds... you'd simply be assessed an extra-shot penalty, and the timer would be a confirmation of the hit count and the holes (maybe). A USPSA shooter in Mobile or Conyers (I've forgotten) tried to shoot M as 'Comstock' (or unlimited Vickers in IDPA). (He had been shooting GSSF for years and that's the way it's always been - he told me so...) He got a reshoot and some CoF lessons.

Penalties marked for each extra shot, got.
And now to deal with the extra hits on those targets. If one extra shot was fired and one paper target
has 7 hits we take one off, usually one of the best hits, right?

njl

11-23-2012, 10:28

I always check that the gun is eligible for the division being shot, but other than the competitor being confused and shooting the wrong gun by accident, there's no reason the gun they're shooting has to match the sticker. i.e. I could sign up for AmCiv saying I'm going to shoot my G17, and shoot a stage with a 21, 19 or 26 if I wanted, as long as they're stock.

ede

11-23-2012, 12:50

Well,,, actually 5 to Glock is 10 Max.:whistling:

I delete my post so no one goes away here with the wrong information. i only work the plates and far as i knew it was 11 and 7 rounds. I'm glad everyones here to keep you straight. I should try to keep in mind I don't get charged per word like I do when I run a newspaper ad and spell everything out so no one gets incorrect information.

1RoundEye

11-23-2012, 13:08

I delete my post so no one goes away here with the wrong information. i only work the plates and far as i knew it was 11 and 7 rounds. I'm glad everyones here to keep you straight. I should try to keep in mind I don't get charged per word like I do when I run a newspaper ad and spell everything out so no one gets incorrect information.

Well to add to the confusion, on 5 to GLOCK you can load 11, but you only can fire 10. The 11th loaded round could be used to clear some kind of malfunction.

SARDG

11-23-2012, 13:28

Penalties marked for each extra shot, got.
And now to deal with the extra hits on those targets. If one extra shot was fired and one paper target
has 7 hits we take one off, usually one of the best hits, right?
10 sec penalty for EACH extra shot, but only the 6 (3 in MajSub) best hits are scored.

EDIT: Example- 3-A/B, 3-C, 1-D... the D isn't scored.

SARDG

11-23-2012, 13:35

But remember, the competitor may fire 12,13 rounds or more - the sky's the limit. :crying:

I delete my post so no one goes away here with the wrong information...
...and by my post, I didn't mean it is legal to fire 12, 13 or more - I only mean that a competitor may end up doing it. :shocked:

emtjr928

11-23-2012, 13:54

...and by my post, I didn't mean it is legal to fire 12, 13 or more - I only mean that a competitor may end up doing it. :shocked:

...and if it's a one time WTF brain freeze,,, they can get a reshoot. :)

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Glockrunner

11-23-2012, 14:01

10 sec penalty for EACH extra shot, but only the 6 (3 in MajSub) best hits are scored.