Chronicling our Idiosyncrasies in Blog form.

#42 Denying that they are White

If you ask a Non Jew “What are you?” the likely response will be something like “I’m American,” or “I’m British.”On the other hand, if you ask a Jewish Young Adult the same question, the response will undoubtedly be “I’m Jewish” regardless of their nationality.In addition, if you ask a Non Jew about their ancestry, the response will be something like “I think my mom’s family is from Germany, and my dad’s is Scottish or Irish or something.”Conversely, any JYA will respond to the same question with an answer like “They were Polish Jews”, or “They were Russian Jews”, or “They were Moroccan Jews”.

Even though on standardized tests JYAs are obligated to check the “Caucasian, Non-Hispanic, including Middle Eastern” box, in practice the average JYA would prefer to check the “Other” box.Indeed, JYA “Jacob” says that he always writes in “Eastern European Jewish,” despite the fact that the available options make it clear that for the purposes of the survey, this additional information is irrelevant.This self imposed demarcation, with its anti-assimilationist undertones, is reinforced by countless academic articles written by Jewish Elders that further encourage JYAs to feel unique due to cultural, historical, or genetic “reasoning.”

When involved in discussions about race, a Non-Jew will be strenuously corrected if they make a statement that includes the JYA in the category of white, such as: “As white people, we look kind of stupid and racist quoting that Chris Rock sketch.”

“Oh I’m not white, I’m Jewish.” The JYA will correct.

Non-Jew “Christina” reported that her JYA boyfriend would explain his preference for warm temperatures by saying, “My people are a desert people.”

“It was weird though,” she recalled, “Because his grandparents were from Russia. And I was like, um, I don’t think there is a desert in Russia”.

Usually this racial obfuscation is as harmless as trust fund kids pretending to be hard up in Williamsburg while their parents transfer cash every month.But the invariable denial of Caucasianism, even though JYAs look at sound like White people, does leave one demographic group irked: Non-Ashkenazi Jews who actually are not White.

79 Responses

Judeans are not an Eastern European people. They are originally from Judea. Jews = Judeans. If you look at old pictures of Jews in Poland or Western Russia, you will see they look very distinct from the native population. There was very little intermarriage between the native popluation and Judeans untill the 20th century. The European admixture in Judeans comes from Southern European and would have happened during Roman times.

you are correct sir. and to “clem” underneath me, “it’s weird that you keep referring to us as Judeans”. Judea is modern-day israel/palestine, where the Jewish people ORIGINATE from. After the exodus/diaspora, they spread all over the world. So, in short, like scarletryder here said above me, Judeans = Jews. Hence why people also refer to Judaism as an ethnicity. It isn’t weird, just the truth. And that’s why the ‘boyfriend’ in the article said “my people are a desert people” to which ‘Christina’ so ignorantly said “I don’t know of any deserts in Russia”. As if she wasn’t at all aware of the immigration of Jews to Europe. Signing off…

I would disagree. Many American Jewry will respond they are American before they utter they are a Jew. This is so prevalent that there are books written on this topic because it is believed this is one of the causes for the slow dying of Judaism in America.

To that end, many known American Holocaust survivor families will respond with, “Polish Jews”. Non Holocaust survivor families will say something very very different frequently.

show that worldwide the Jewish community has 3% to 5% sub-Saharan African genes. These genes were introduced into the Jewish community thousands of years ago, before the Dispersion from ancient Israel. Palestinians have a higher percentage of these same genes, which were introduced into their population more recently, possibly due to the conquests of Islam. Southern Europeans also have some sub-Saharan African genetics, from 1% to 3%.

It gives some credence to young Jews who don’t feel quite white. No reason to stress, no matter how you react to this. Just enjoy who you are. Being Jewish is a great privilege and responsibility.

Aren’t most American Jews a mix of (brown) semitic and (white) European? If we are going to go through the largely fictional process of racial classification, semites are not “white,” so isn’t it legit for most Jews to consider ourselves a separate ethnic group?

Interestingly, most hispanics (those who check that box on the census) also identify as white (as ‘hispanic’ is considered an ethnicity, while white is a race). Whiteness, how it’s measured, and what it means is a very interesting topic and I recommend, for example, Mary Waters’ Ethnic Options for a good take on what people mean when they ‘check the box’, or identify as ‘Jewish’ or ‘Irish’ instead of ‘White’. In the same vein, check out this recent NYtimes article.
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Wait, how did I confuse this blog for something serious? Something must be off today…

Very interesting… Thanks for your two cents! Whiteness is a concept, not a race, and it is so very confusing. I have never felt comfortable identifying as white, even when others might classify me as such. Maybe it’s because Jews were never considered “white” (i.e. part of the mainstream, native national group) in Europe? So, as a second generation ashkenazi Jew in 21st Century USA why would I suddenly identify as white? Just because there has been a “lull” in overt attacks on Jews? And wouldn’t that amount to more assimilation? I know these sentiments risk making some Jews of color feel marginalized or “unseen,” but I don’t know how to get around the abhorrent feeling I get when I am (incorrectly) labeled white.

[…] to assimilate) and the role of the Jew as (still) the other in white American culture. In addition, this post from the blog “Stuff Jewish Young Adults Like” offers a humorous perspective of the […]

Many people throughout history did not consider us white, but spawned by the devil. Many people think we’re just a little bit black. I once read an article years ago in the NY Times magazine by a black women who liked us because we’re less white than other white people.

Crying over spilled milk won’t change that it has spilled, whether on purpose or accident, and all that one can do is move on. From a Young Jew to another Jew, you need to stop thinking about Europeans as being the number one villain, because in all honesty that is not the case at all. A White Christian is perfectly happy to be around, befriend, and even marry a person of Jewish heritage- in fact you probably wouldn’t mind yourself either if you got to know one closely enough.

A lot of horrible things have happened to a lot of people before, but you honestly have to stop living in the past. Just because something might have happened to your family or people doesn’t mean one should blame an entire people or civilization for it, especially if the current generations have nothing to do with it.

A young white Jew is perfectly happy to walk up to a young white Christian and befriend them if given the chance to and the Gentile would most likely not for a second think badly of his friend because of his religion. Things like that just don’t happen today and I honestly don’t see it happening at any point in the future.

Your statement is full of hypocrisy. First, by casting “Europeans” as the other, you’re pigeonholing all gentile Europeans in the same boat. You’re taking the countless numbers of Europeans who defended the Jews, providing them escape and shelter during the Holocaust, and placing them in the same category as Nazis. You’re also inadvertently playing a game of oppression olympics, placing Jewish oppression in European history on a pedestal above other European or Europe-derived groups who have also been subject to oppression (Irish, Scottish, Welsh, Basques, Huguenots, Roma, Travellers, Cossacks, Poles, Finns, Greeks, Vlaches and Romanians, various Slavic minority groups, and in the United States, pretty much every group of European immigrants that weren’t pale-skinned, Northwestern European-derived Protestants).

Finally, your identification with Middle Eastern roots is confusing if your primary agenda is to disassociate yourself from oppressive regimes in European history. If you haven’t noticed, most Middle Eastern governments are not presently safe-havens for Jewish people, either.

“A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe.”

“…[I]f the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim.”

From wikipedia:
“A 2001 study by Nebel et al. showed that both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish populations share the same overall paternal Near Eastern ancestries.”

“A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe.”

“”However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim”

“A 2001 study by Nebel et al. showed that both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jewish populations share the same overall paternal Near Eastern ancestries.”

“A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe.”

“However, if the R-M17 chromosomes in Ashkenazi Jews do indeed represent the vestiges of the mysterious Khazars then, according to our data, this contribution was limited to either a single founder or a few closely related men, and does not exceed ~ 12% of the present-day Ashkenazim.”

AcceptIt, your supposition is absolutely incorrect. The theory that Ashkenazi Jews are only descended from the Khazars is a popular theory held by white supremacists. The theory tries to show that Ashkenazi Jews are not the real Jews, and are in fact just ‘impostor Jews’, making it okay for them to be hated.

White is not based on skin colour. It means anglo-saxon. And so when asked if one is white (anglo-saxon) then why, if jewish, would you answer yes to that question??

Now on the other hand there is this question of identity- what best describes ourselves. I myself am half white, half jewish.
First and foremost I would say that I am jewish however and British (British being my nationality and jewish and anglo-saxon being my race.)

Jews like any other peoples (like armenians for example) who have been subject to systematic oppression and trauma, either assimilate to try and hide for protection from any future acts of discrimination, or do the exact opposite and put their race/religion first and foremost. Some of the more extreme Zionist philosophies can be seen to have emerged from this environment.

Of course we are all so mixed ethnically anyway that we can only assume our ancestry in line with what we know of it. At the end of the day it should be up to us, as individuals to associate however we feel best identifies ourselves. To call myself anglo-saxon (or white) is to deny my jewish racial heritage, something that countless tyrannical regimes have tried to do in the past and which has been a very real and sad consequence of descendents of Eastern european jews. It is ironic that today Israel goes off the Nazi Germany definition of jewish (which is whether you have a jewish grandparent).

Uh, Polish Jews are Polish. Russian Jews are Russian. Moroccan Jews are Moroccan. Where is “Jewish” on a map? Those questions ask for somewhere you can point to on a map, not your religion. *shakes head* People.

Sarah, you are perfectly entitled to this opinion, but don’t present it as fact. There people from each of these countries (both Jewish and goy) who would agree with you, and people from each of these countries (both Jewish and goy) who would disagree with you. That there is no definitive answer here is why this subject is interesting.

“Where is “Jewish” on a map?”

Where is “Hispanic” or Black” on a map? Anyway, were it not for the diaspora, it would likely be pretty easy to find “Jewish” on a map.

“Those questions ask for somewhere you can point to on a map, not your religion.”

When was the last time you filled out a form asking for your ethnicity? They do not ask for places you can point at on a map; especially the term “non-white Hispanic,” a category in which people with various geographic backgrounds can fit. Also, you are overlooking the fact that while Judaism is a religion, most Jews share similar genetics.

“*shakes head* People.”

It must be frustrating for you to be surrounded by mental inferiors. Maybe if you keep shaking your head fast enough you’ll dumb down to our level of foolishness.

As per the evolution of sociology and mass culture, the definition of “white” has changed significantly over the years, and will probably continue to change.
Pre-World War I Northwestern Europeans only were considered white in the United States, between wars they added Germans, and it was not until the post-World War II period that Southern Europeans and, well, everybody who looked white was considered to be so by the American public. “White” is ambiguous.

.. America, one of the world’s most racists societies in the extreme…”

I cannot let this comment stand unchallenged. We have so many races and ethnicities in the US, and I am always impressed at how well we generally get along here. In the Mideast and in Africa, unfortunately, people are often killed for being different. European countries have problems with minorities like Turks, whom we in the US hardly notice.

Of course, things are far from perfect, but compared to the rest of the world the US is doing very well in terms of racial awareness.

“To pretend that Jews do not share a different and distinct ethnic background is to ignore reality.”

Having a distinctive ethnic background has nothing to do with whether or not one is considered white. In fact, all white people have distinctive ethnic backgrounds, and to claim theirs are somehow less valid than your own is insulting. English is not the same as Irish, Polish are not the same as Germans, and Castilian Spaniards are not the same as Portuguese, Catalans, and Basques. Despite all of their cultural differences, however, the light-skinned descendants of these ethnic groups in the United States all share white privilege, as do Ashkenazi Jewish Americans.

“Considering “Jewish” to be other than Caucasian is not necessarily self-imposed. In the Soviet Union, for example, ID cards for Jews listed their “nationality” as Jewish.”
And listed Ukrainians as Ukrainians, Poles as Poles, Georgians as Georgians. How does this make Jews non-white?

I come from a survivor family, so for me and my family, identifying as jews before identifying as white or American, is our way of protesting what happened. The writer of this article has clearly forgotten how many people lost their lives because of their Jewish identity and that being able to identify as Jewish is a privilege that should not be taken for granted. We have the right to be proud of our culture just like everyone else.

Scientifically Jews are mostly Caucasoid, but they are for the most part non-European, too, so it depends how you define “white”. I have met Christian Assyrians (non-Arabs) from the Mideast who are similar in appearance to Jews. A word on the Khazar nonsense. This is a theory that has become popular among some Muslim and extremist hate groups because it attempts to sever the link between Jews and their homeland, implying Jews have no right to live in Israel. Khazar theory is false because: 1) Studies have shown that genetically Jews are Middle Eastern in origin 2) Not a single word of Khazar exists in Yiddish. 3) The Jewish language of rural German Jews (now dying out) is directly related to Yiddish, proving that Jews migrated eastward to eastern Europe, as has always been known, not westward as would have been the case with a Khazar origin.

Modern Jews, including Ashkenazim, clearly originate in the Middle East, and are genetically more similar to each other than they are to their host populations in the diaspora. This is based on numerous genetic studies, the most recent of which was just published recently:

Genetic testing is disproving the Ashkenazic relationship to the Khazars.

There are 3 separate groups of Jews (Middle Eastern, Ashkenazi and Sephardic), and within those groups are different genotypes, all tracing back to the Middle East. I had my genetic ancestry analyzed by the National Geographic project, and it was determined that, while my ancestry does trace back to the Middle East eventually, I’m from the major Ashkenazic group that flourished in the Rhine Valley until around 1300, when we were pushed eastward into Ukraine, Poland, etc., in order to survive. If you read the recent article about the 4 matriarchs of the Ashkenazic Jews, I’m descended from one of them.

The interesting part is that there is another genetic subgroup that is closely related to me that is made up primarily of non-Jews in Northern Italy, France, and elsewhere in that region. So I am genetically related to Western European non-Jews, however, we are not related to any Eastern European non-Jews, nor to the Khazars.

Why does anyone write an article like this? I actually don’t know Jews who are denying they are white. But I do think many Jews feel that way. If you think about it, if a Jew was from Germany is he a German? From Poland, is he a Pole? Etc., etc. The Germans never thought so, and neither did the Poles.

The Jew was a Jew. And so it was all over Europe. Now the question of whiteness. How is it defined? There are many white peoples who are not European. Kashmiri Indians, Afghans, and others. Yet white seems to mean European only, and Jews have NOT been accepted as the SAME as any European people. No one In Europe claims the Jewish people as their own — and we all know how hard the Jews tried to be accepted in European countries, and that ended in the colossal tragedy of the Holocaust where one country engineered genocide and almost every other cooperated by betraying the Jews or refusing them sanctuary.

No, the Jews were seen as “other”. And Jews tend to be seen as “other” even today. Many people do not understand us and do see us as racially different, and genetically we really are.

Over time the Sephardi and Ashkenazi differences will disappear completely. We are halfway there already. There are many Ashkenazim who look more Sephardi than Sephardim. I’m a western European Jew with roots in Spain and I am totally at home with both Ashkenaz and Sepharad.

I like to be accepted as white, but I know there is a little bit of a racial question about me, and I like that bit of spice, as long as it is just fun. I don’t enjoy racism and anti-Semitism, and I will not put up with it. Jews better be proud of who they are; stop all the negativity; spread love to all, and truly love yourself, your ethnicity, and your people, past, present, and future.

Other humans will respect you for that, and we Jewish people will receive love in return.

I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say. Being white doesn’t mean that your ethnic group has its own nation-state in Europe. Basques don’t have an independent country, nor do Roma, Catalans, Bretons, Welsh, Walloons, Sorbs, Vlachs, or Ingrians. The idea that Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews never had a country in which they were the majority and self-governing does not make them any less white.

The entire category of “white” is undefinable. It is more sociological/psychological than anything else. Jews should not put up with others’ defining us racially or making racial comments about us. That should have ended with the Nazis. In Europe at that time they insisted we were aliens in Europe, that we didn’t belong there, and that led to the Holocaust. Now the pendulum has swung (in large measure due to that genocide) and it became cool to be non-white. So now we see the detractors pointing a finger and classifying Jews as “white”. It’s motivation is the same old anti-Jewish animus. Why do you feel the need to go to a Jewish venue and engage on this topic?

German and Russian Jews aren’t actually ethnic Germans and Russians. You can ask real germans and russians. Ashkenazi Jews are basically half white/half middle eastern people. So, if you are half-ashkenazi/half-‘white’, then you are 1/4th middle eastern.

Russian Jews aren’t from Siberia, though. That’s why Stalin’s half-assed “Jewish Autonomous Oblast” in the Russian Far East was such a major fail. Most Russian Jews are the descendants of Yiddish-speaking settlers who moved in west of Russia and were content to stay in the westerly, European parts of Russia which is the core of “Russia”. More importantly, as you’ve pointed out yourself, these Russian deserts are not characteristically hot… Even if her boyfriend’s Jewish ancestors did happen to hail from a Siberian desert, that wouldn’t validate his explanation for his hot weather preference. Technically-speaking, Cristina’s point might not be completely accurate but it fits for the point she’s trying to make.

Judaism is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry. For instance, Ashkenazi Jews and Sephardic Jews are both “Jewish.” However, whereas Ashkenazi Jews often hail from Europe, Sephardic Jews often hail from the Middle East. People of many different races have become Jewish over the centuries.

Judaism is not a nationality

Although today Israel is often called the Jewish homeland, being Jewish is not a nationality because Jews have been dispersed throughout the world for almost two thousand years. Hence, Jews come from countries all over the world.

Judaism is both a cultural and religious identity

Being Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both).

Cultural Judaism includes things such as Jewish foods, customs and rituals. For instance, many people are born into Jewish homes and are raised eating blintzes and lighting shabbat candles, but never step foot inside a synagogue. A Jewish identity is automatically bestowed on babies of Jewish mothers (according to Orthodox and Conservative Judaism) and of Jewish mothers or fathers (according to Reform Judaism). This Jewish identity stays with them throughout life even if they don’t actively practice Judaism.

Religious Judaism includes the beliefs of the Jewish religion. The way a person practices the Jewish religion can take many forms and partially for this reason there are different movements of Judaism. The main denominations are Reform, Conservative, Orthodox and Reconstructionist Judaism. Many people who are born into Jewish homes affiliate with one of these branches, but there are also those who do not.

If a person is not born Jewish, s/he can convert to Judaism by studying with a rabbi and undergoing the process of conversion. Merely believing in the precepts of Judaism is not enough to make someone a Jew. They must complete the conversion process in order to be considered Jewish. Though the different branches of Judaism have varying requirements for conversion, it is safe to say that the conversion process is very meaningful for whomever decides to undertake it.

That’s from that site. So you can be black, white, purple, or pink with green polkadots and still be Jewish if you study under a rabbi and convert.

Judaism is a religion. Yes, it has its own culture, but it is NOT something you check as “other” on a box that asks your ethnicity or heritage. That would be like me saying “I’m not white, I’m an Atheist.” or “I’m not black, I’m Muslim.” See how preposterous it really is? A religion is what you BELIEVE. An ethnicity is what you ARE GENETICALLY. Judaism isn’t genetic. Blonde hair IS.

Becomes even more complicated when you are the daughter of a Mizrachi and a Finnish Jew, born and raised in Latin America . So no matter what, you will look white for most people, and that will authomatically make you either a foreigner or an upper class b*tch for 90% of people. In an 8 and a half million people city with barely 3000 jews, you also need to explain why if you are Jewish you don’t speak Hebrew or why isn’t you last name Goldberg, and then why doesn’t your dad look like Woody Allen? He looks more Al Qaeda to me… And your mom is a blonde gringa…

I’m sorry; you can write paragraphs and go on and on, but it’s clear you have very little knowledge of the Jewish Nation. Yes, Jewish Nation. Have you ever heard of “Am Yisrael”? I didn’t think so. “Am Yisrael” is the core. It is so basic to this thing we today call “Judaism”, a relatively recent word that doesn’t come close to explaining what “Am Yisrael” means. “‘Am Yisrael”, “Zera Ya’acov”, phrases you clearly no nothing about, basic as they are to the story of the Jewish people. Admit you have little education into who the Jewish people are. You probably understand no Hebrew or you could not say what you do. You have so much to learn. First thing — look up the phrase “‘Am Yisrael”. Stop writing as though you are an expert. You are far from it. I’m sorry, but someone had to let you know.

My comment was not for Simona. It was directed to Erica. “Am Yisrael” means “Nation of Israel”. It is in all Jewish writings, ancient to modern. I don’t disagree with everything you said, but why your negation of the Jewish Nation?

If Jews had not kept alive the spirit of the nation they could never have founded the Jewish State. We all know Jews have American, Russian, Swedish, Greek, etc. citizenship/nationality. Everyone knows that. Why bother mentioning it?

If Jews aren’t white then Italians,Greeks,Albanians,and basically all southern Europeans are also not white.The “Semitic”look morons talk about is identical to the Italian or Greek look both non Semitic people.Semitic is a language grouping and has zero to do with race all races speak Semitic languages.Malta is part of the European union and Maltese is a Semitic language.Other morons say there is a Jewish look so that some how makes Jews non white.Well there is an Irish look and a English look also an eastern European look does that mean those groups are non white??The biggest morons say Jews have sub Saharan DNA and that makes them non white.I got news for you all people descended from sub Saharan blacks so from Hitler to David duke we all have sub Saharan DNA in us.I am Jewish and I live in new york and know many Jews and I have never in my life known even one European Jew that has said that they are not white.I have blue eyes white skin and no one has ever asked me if I am not white.I joked around once at a government office and marked my race as black on the form that I had and when I handed it in the black woman looked at it and crossed it out and filled in white.In many ways Jews are the highest level whites from IQ scores to high rates of higher level education.Anyone that says jews are not white is either blind or retarded.P.S. middle eastern people and southern Europeans in many cases are genetically %100 identical.

Southern Italians, Greeks and Albanians all have heavy middle eastern ancestry from the neolithic as well as greco-roman times, they are not completely white. It’s not about skin tone, also facial features, Jews have different facial features, they look more similar to caucasians (yes, the real caucasians like georgians and chechens). Caucasians are not white people, they are genetically related to Iranians. Spaniards tend to be whiter than the other Southerners, they are genetically closest to French, and a lot of them simply have typical european facial features, only with darker complexions. Maltese are not white, and neither are Cypriots. They are middle eastern mixed people not unlike jews. Hitler had north african ancestry from neolithic, not sub-saharan. Slavs and Western Europeans are all white, Slavs are r1a and western europeans are more r1b. There are mongolians with blue eyes and blonde hair too.

I have been to New York. Only a minority of New Yorkers are definitely white. A significant portion of the population tend to have an ambiguous middle eastern/mediterranean/latino look. Not surprising given the population of southern italians and jews. They aren’t really white.

The Jews that obtain the highest IQ scores are Ashkenazis, not so much sephardim and mizrahim.

Middle Easterners genetically have nothing to do with europeans, except for those admixed populations.

Most Jews simply identify themselves as ‘Jewish’, rather than ‘white’. If you’re talking about the census, then even Arabs are required to identify themselves as ‘white’.

Jews= Judeans = Judeans are from Judea. There is no such as a Russian Jew. go ask any Russian If a Jew can be Russian, they will say ‘ No, Jews are an alien foriegn people that come from Israel.’ Many of you are very deluded if you think Judeans from Eastern Europe were ethnically Eastern European.

Hilarious! I am here because a friend recently accused me of being white. He said I tick the boxes in a book called ‘what white people like’, so I got online to prove to him that I tick more on what Jewish people like, because I am not white … so I found your website … and this incredibly ironic one!!!

I decided to take a genetics test at Family Tree DNA because they have the largest database of populations, as far as I know. I am Jewish on both sides. The results sort of surprised me because I was ready for some European admixture, at least a little.

What my results showed was that I have 100% Middle Eastern DNA. It broke down a little under 80% Jewish and a little over 20% “Palestinian, Bedouin, South Bedouin, Druze.” My entire family came from Germany, for centuries.

I think many Jews have a percentage of “Palestinian” DNA. It’s not unusual. It means that Palestinians tested show the same DNA as many Jews do in a portion of the chromosomes. The big difference in looks between some Arabs and Jews is that Arabs acquired black African DNA, in varying degrees, about a thousand years ago (Moorjani study). The entire Jewish population has some black African DNA, but quite a bit less. I could see in my results that I have a very small amount. It is very common to see small amounts with anyone who has a lot of Mideastern DNA.

If you saw the episode of “Finding Your Roots” hosted by Henry Louis Gates, Jr on PBS, you would have seen that Barbara Walters’ DNA is 90% Middle Eastern (Jewish). Of course, she is Ashkenazi.

So, you can be predominantly Middle Eastern and look like Barbara. I don’t think people should feel pressure to declare themselves one race or the other. I know I am Middle Eastern, but I always (usually) check off “white” on forms just to keep it simple.

I think white supremacists are the only ones who say you can’t be white if you are Middle Eastern. Some of them even say southern Italians are not white. I think the best way to live is to make yourself as open and inclusive to everyone as possible. I don’t think it’s smart for us as a group to distance ourselves from anyone, certainly not people of white European heritage or anyone else for that matter. If you know who you are that’s all you need, and you can speak your truth clearly and firmly to any person who means us harm.

Even Arab Nazis/Arab Supremacists don’t claim to be the same race as germans. Asians don’t regard Middle Easterners as ‘white’ either. Middle Easterners are not white, they are a separate group of people. Some southern europeans and ashkenazi jews in general are mixed european/middle eastern.

I like to think of myself as “off white”. After all, my skin tone is olive (sallow) and I tan very easily. So does my husband. One person above said “pink tone” to the skin, which neither of us have. On the paperwork for our families coming into this country, under “RACE” immigration put Jewish or Hebrew. At that time Jews were not considered white, but an entirely separate race. They still aren’t treated as white by a number of people out there because for some that term only means white Christians. Culturally speaking I have more in common with other “non-white” folk, so off-white suites me just fine, but what difference does it make? Why do we even need to declare a race? Doesn’t it only create more “us and them” think? Isn’t about time we just consider “human” as a race and stop all this other crap?

Ashkenazi Jews are basically half-white/half middle eastern people. Cypriots are not white, they are mainly hellenized eteocypriots with some european admixture. Ashkenazi Jews can resemble other white/middle eastern mixes as well as the real caucasians (chechens+georgians), who are actually not white (they are closer to iranians, basically look like depigmented Middle Easterners). Various people such as Southern Italians and Greeks also have middle eastern admixture. Sephardim/Mizrahim resemble Middle Easterners/North Africans.

Conclusion, Middle Easterners are not white. Claiming that they are white is like saying that native americans are the same race as east asians since they are mongoloids.

You write that Ashkenazi Jews are half white and half Middle Eastern, but I had the DNA test and I’m 100% Levantine Middle Eastern. I know another Jewish man of German Ashkenazi background who also tested 100%. I know someone else who tested Levantine and Tuscan, so not necessarily disagreeing, but I’m saying half white half Middle Eastern is an oversimplification.

Whiteness is a concept, not a race, and it is so very confusing. I have never felt comfortable identifying as white, even when others might classify me as such. Maybe it’s because Jews were never considered “white” (i.e. part of the mainstream, native national group) in Europe? So, as a second generation ashkenazi Jew in 21st Century USA why would I suddenly identify as white? Just because there has been a relative “lull” in overt attacks on Jews? And wouldn’t that amount to more assimilation? I know these sentiments risk making some Jews of color feel marginalized or “unseen,” but I don’t know how to get around the abhorrent feeling I get when I am (incorrectly) labeled white.

It’s true; whatever country in Europe we were in we were not considered German, Polish, Russian, Italian, Greek, etc. We were always Jews and foreign, no matter how many centuries we had lived there. So, I understand your point that how could we now be considered “white”, which is synonymous with European, a continent which rejected and brutalized us? Agreed. I feel the same. But when we get out into the larger world bringing up the issue of race in regard to ourselves does not serve us. It’s such a charged topic with so many interpretations that unfortunately it brings out attacks from both whites and non-whites against us. We are accused by white nationalists of trying to be white and by some non-whites of trying to be part of them. I don’t want to be perceived as trying to please or fit in to anyone else’s racial agenda. I also don’t want to be seen as confused about my ethnicity. I’m not confused. Modern society is confused. That’s why I think we should embrace everyone who will return our affection. We have the best of both worlds. We are in a sense white and also non-white. Use that knowledge to be inclusive, not exclusive. We as Jews are at our best when we know who we are. We have a tendency to want to be accepted by non-whites as one of them. Don’t even go there. It’s got a needy look to it. If you know who you are it’s totally unnecessary. Jews are accepted only after they’ve learned to accept themselves fully. And don’t kid yourself — that’s a majorly needed tikkun for our worldwide community.

Well, that, of course is because Ashkenazi Jews are an intermediate hybrid community between Europeans and Middle Easterners. Even the Sephardim cluster with Cypriots who are known to have some Greek/European admixture.

So, both europeans and arabs have historically regarded them as aliens. The insular culture intensifies the relations that the jews have maintained with others.