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The Old Doctor

GHERU wrote:I'm looking for something new in mindless books and I've read all the star wars books that are out that seem interesting, so I was thinking of trying out the expanded Star Trek books.

Anyone know a good spot to start?New Frontier?

You answered your own question.

Stay away from the Diane Carey ones.

I did enjoy some like the first five New Frontier and The Captain's Table books concerning New Frontier and Pike. The Lost Years were good too. Vulcan's Glory was good too. But all the rest read like fan fic. Some very bad fan fic with many.

The Old Doctor

GHERU wrote:I'm looking for something new in mindless books and I've read all the star wars books that are out that seem interesting, so I was thinking of trying out the expanded Star Trek books.

Anyone know a good spot to start?New Frontier?

You answered your own question.

Stay away from the Diane Carey ones.

I did enjoy some like the first five New Frontier and The Captain's Table books concerning New Frontier and Pike. The Lost Years were good too. Vulcan's Glory was good too. But all the rest read like fan fic. Some very bad fan fic with many.

rubber spoon

I like the Titan series a lot, and after reading the first two, I went all in and bought the remaining five in the core series. It features Riker taking over as captain of the Titan, picking up right from the end of Star Trek Nemesis. I haven't had a chance to read them all yet, though.

rubber spoon

I like the Titan series a lot, and after reading the first two, I went all in and bought the remaining five in the core series. It features Riker taking over as captain of the Titan, picking up right from the end of Star Trek Nemesis. I haven't had a chance to read them all yet, though.

Rain Partier

Lord Simian wrote:I liked the Shatner books, but two things to keep in mind.

1) They're very much not canon, even the other ST book series ignore them.2) It's very easy to tell which chapters were written by Shatner. Roughly 3 chapters of story by ghosts, and then a chapter about Kirkr reminiscing about how badass he is. Rinse, and repeat.

The only Trek novel that was ever officially considered canon was a Janeway backstory novel by Voyager's showrunner Jeri Taylor. And she only made that book canon because she wrote the damn thing.

The DS9 novels continuing the events from the series might be considered canon in some fashion, I suppose. But the Trek novels have always made an issue of not being part of any sort of extended canon. In other words, it was always the intent that the only canon they agreed with was what was established in the shows and movies, not in other books.

To a degree, this has started to change. Books reference the events in other books, and not unlike Marvel and DC comics, they produce these vast crossover events, which set the stage for future books. One of PAD's novels (in which he killed off Janeway) was the launching point for a crossover series in which the Borg were killed off for good (Janeway came back in a totally different book, though).

And now, there are original characters and storylines woven throughout the books like Elias Vaughn and the Federation President and PAD's Captain Calhoun.

Of course, that doesn't mean that any of these books are canonical; only that there's an effort now being made to keep them internally consistent with other Trek novels. It's the difference between continuity and canon, basically. The novels are in continuity with the shows and movies as well as each other, but are not considered canonical in and of themselves. Probably trying to take a page from Star Wars' Expanded Universe.

I'd offer some suggestions, RU, but I haven't picked up a new Trek book in years. Star Trek: Destiny was the last series I read, and it really turned me off of Trek novels in general. The crossover idea seemed okay at first, but increasingly, novels began to reference other novels I didn't give a shit to read. Like this whole Typhon Pact storyline they were doing a while back. It was referenced in the Destiny storyline, and I had no idea what in the fuck it was without looking it up online.

For a while, I was picking up the extended DS9 novels until I got tired of reading about Andorian sexual relationships.

I kinda liked the Star Trek: Vanguard series for a bit, though. It was set during the original series era, but focuses on completely original characters. One of whom is a hot lesbian vulcan with issues. Predictably, though, it got weird.

Star Trek Destiny covered pretty much every Trek era with the exception of AbramsTrek, telling a story that spanned millions of years, uniting all the crews (sorta). Archer wasn't in it, but one of his contemporaries from the show is a main character. Picard teams up with Dax and Seven-of-Nine and Riker's crew from the USS Titan to fight the Borg (again). It reveals the origin of the Borg, and the events from this series form the basis of the Star Trek Online Game (and are then promptly ignored almost immediately).

It's very comic booky now, which you may enjoy. Characters who were killed have returned to life. Even Data's back. There's a lot of stuff to enjoy, but you just have to realize there's a lot of stuff. And things have changed.

Rain Partier

Lord Simian wrote:I liked the Shatner books, but two things to keep in mind.

1) They're very much not canon, even the other ST book series ignore them.2) It's very easy to tell which chapters were written by Shatner. Roughly 3 chapters of story by ghosts, and then a chapter about Kirkr reminiscing about how badass he is. Rinse, and repeat.

The only Trek novel that was ever officially considered canon was a Janeway backstory novel by Voyager's showrunner Jeri Taylor. And she only made that book canon because she wrote the damn thing.

The DS9 novels continuing the events from the series might be considered canon in some fashion, I suppose. But the Trek novels have always made an issue of not being part of any sort of extended canon. In other words, it was always the intent that the only canon they agreed with was what was established in the shows and movies, not in other books.

To a degree, this has started to change. Books reference the events in other books, and not unlike Marvel and DC comics, they produce these vast crossover events, which set the stage for future books. One of PAD's novels (in which he killed off Janeway) was the launching point for a crossover series in which the Borg were killed off for good (Janeway came back in a totally different book, though).

And now, there are original characters and storylines woven throughout the books like Elias Vaughn and the Federation President and PAD's Captain Calhoun.

Of course, that doesn't mean that any of these books are canonical; only that there's an effort now being made to keep them internally consistent with other Trek novels. It's the difference between continuity and canon, basically. The novels are in continuity with the shows and movies as well as each other, but are not considered canonical in and of themselves. Probably trying to take a page from Star Wars' Expanded Universe.

I'd offer some suggestions, RU, but I haven't picked up a new Trek book in years. Star Trek: Destiny was the last series I read, and it really turned me off of Trek novels in general. The crossover idea seemed okay at first, but increasingly, novels began to reference other novels I didn't give a shit to read. Like this whole Typhon Pact storyline they were doing a while back. It was referenced in the Destiny storyline, and I had no idea what in the fuck it was without looking it up online.

For a while, I was picking up the extended DS9 novels until I got tired of reading about Andorian sexual relationships.

I kinda liked the Star Trek: Vanguard series for a bit, though. It was set during the original series era, but focuses on completely original characters. One of whom is a hot lesbian vulcan with issues. Predictably, though, it got weird.

Star Trek Destiny covered pretty much every Trek era with the exception of AbramsTrek, telling a story that spanned millions of years, uniting all the crews (sorta). Archer wasn't in it, but one of his contemporaries from the show is a main character. Picard teams up with Dax and Seven-of-Nine and Riker's crew from the USS Titan to fight the Borg (again). It reveals the origin of the Borg, and the events from this series form the basis of the Star Trek Online Game (and are then promptly ignored almost immediately).

It's very comic booky now, which you may enjoy. Characters who were killed have returned to life. Even Data's back. There's a lot of stuff to enjoy, but you just have to realize there's a lot of stuff. And things have changed.

"You must be proud, bold, pleasant, resolute,And now and then stab, as occasion serves."

Rain Partier

spidertour02 wrote:I like the Titan series a lot, and after reading the first two, I went all in and bought the remaining five in the core series. It features Riker taking over as captain of the Titan, picking up right from the end of Star Trek Nemesis. I haven't had a chance to read them all yet, though.

Most interesting character in that series is the doctor, who is a sentient velociraptor. I like him a lot because he bit Counselor Troi to shut her dumb ass the fuck up.

Rain Partier

spidertour02 wrote:I like the Titan series a lot, and after reading the first two, I went all in and bought the remaining five in the core series. It features Riker taking over as captain of the Titan, picking up right from the end of Star Trek Nemesis. I haven't had a chance to read them all yet, though.

Most interesting character in that series is the doctor, who is a sentient velociraptor. I like him a lot because he bit Counselor Troi to shut her dumb ass the fuck up.

"You must be proud, bold, pleasant, resolute,And now and then stab, as occasion serves."

Edward II: Act 2 Scene 1, by Christopher Marlowe

Bond Hengbu

by Bond Hengbu » Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:47 am

Read the Star Trek Vanguard series. It's awesome and if you wached TOS you will be fine in terms understanding everything.

expert hobo killer

Strict31 wrote:The only Trek novel that was ever officially considered canon was a Janeway backstory novel by Voyager's showrunner Jeri Taylor. And she only made that book canon because she wrote the damn thing.

The DS9 novels continuing the events from the series might be considered canon in some fashion, I suppose. But the Trek novels have always made an issue of not being part of any sort of extended canon. In other words, it was always the intent that the only canon they agreed with was what was established in the shows and movies, not in other books.

From the begining Paramount has never bothered to maintain the tight control over what is canon and what is not the way Star Wars did with their expanded universe stuff.

Of course, that doesn't mean that any of these books are canonical; only that there's an effort now being made to keep them internally consistent with other Trek novels. It's the difference between continuity and canon, basically. The novels are in continuity with the shows and movies as well as each other, but are not considered canonical in and of themselves. Probably trying to take a page from Star Wars' Expanded Universe.

I must admit I wouldn't know about Trek books editorial policy right now, but I recall back in the 80's and 90's several of the authors borrowed characters from one another. Nothing really offical or anything, just authors who knew each other and read their work sharing some ideas to broaden some possibilities.

For a while, I was picking up the extended DS9 novels until I got tired of reading about Andorian sexual relationships.

And this is a negative how?

Star Trek Destiny covered pretty much every Trek era with the exception of AbramsTrek, telling a story that spanned millions of years, uniting all the crews (sorta). Archer wasn't in it, but one of his contemporaries from the show is a main character. Picard teams up with Dax and Seven-of-Nine and Riker's crew from the USS Titan to fight the Borg (again). It reveals the origin of the Borg, and the events from this series form the basis of the Star Trek Online Game (and are then promptly ignored almost immediately).

It's very comic booky now, which you may enjoy. Characters who were killed have returned to life. Even Data's back. There's a lot of stuff to enjoy, but you just have to realize there's a lot of stuff. And things have changed.

Oh, so it's the "if you want to follow what's happening right now in this book, you need to have to read the previous thirteen books in this series" kind of set up?

expert hobo killer

Strict31 wrote:The only Trek novel that was ever officially considered canon was a Janeway backstory novel by Voyager's showrunner Jeri Taylor. And she only made that book canon because she wrote the damn thing.

The DS9 novels continuing the events from the series might be considered canon in some fashion, I suppose. But the Trek novels have always made an issue of not being part of any sort of extended canon. In other words, it was always the intent that the only canon they agreed with was what was established in the shows and movies, not in other books.

From the begining Paramount has never bothered to maintain the tight control over what is canon and what is not the way Star Wars did with their expanded universe stuff.

Of course, that doesn't mean that any of these books are canonical; only that there's an effort now being made to keep them internally consistent with other Trek novels. It's the difference between continuity and canon, basically. The novels are in continuity with the shows and movies as well as each other, but are not considered canonical in and of themselves. Probably trying to take a page from Star Wars' Expanded Universe.

I must admit I wouldn't know about Trek books editorial policy right now, but I recall back in the 80's and 90's several of the authors borrowed characters from one another. Nothing really offical or anything, just authors who knew each other and read their work sharing some ideas to broaden some possibilities.

For a while, I was picking up the extended DS9 novels until I got tired of reading about Andorian sexual relationships.

And this is a negative how?

Star Trek Destiny covered pretty much every Trek era with the exception of AbramsTrek, telling a story that spanned millions of years, uniting all the crews (sorta). Archer wasn't in it, but one of his contemporaries from the show is a main character. Picard teams up with Dax and Seven-of-Nine and Riker's crew from the USS Titan to fight the Borg (again). It reveals the origin of the Borg, and the events from this series form the basis of the Star Trek Online Game (and are then promptly ignored almost immediately).

It's very comic booky now, which you may enjoy. Characters who were killed have returned to life. Even Data's back. There's a lot of stuff to enjoy, but you just have to realize there's a lot of stuff. And things have changed.

Oh, so it's the "if you want to follow what's happening right now in this book, you need to have to read the previous thirteen books in this series" kind of set up?

Outhouse Editor

Also, Scoot left off a few of Shatner's books: he wrote a mirror universe trilogy featuring the Great Captain Universe-Savior squaring off against his mirror universe counterpart, the Emperor Tiberius. Who, having been overthrown as emperor of the Terran Empire by Goatee Spock, showed his giant balls to the Klingons and Cardassians and became THEIR emperor, and used them to conquer the Terrans.

Have they ever done a story with Mirror Universe Khan? Wouldn’t he be a super good guy, I think that'd be interesting.

I’ve gotten a couple of ST books but haven’t read them. They take place after the last Next Gen movie.

Also, Scoot left off a few of Shatner's books: he wrote a mirror universe trilogy featuring the Great Captain Universe-Savior squaring off against his mirror universe counterpart, the Emperor Tiberius. Who, having been overthrown as emperor of the Terran Empire by Goatee Spock, showed his giant balls to the Klingons and Cardassians and became THEIR emperor, and used them to conquer the Terrans.

Have they ever done a story with Mirror Universe Khan? Wouldn’t he be a super good guy, I think that'd be interesting.

I’ve gotten a couple of ST books but haven’t read them. They take place after the last Next Gen movie.

Rain Partier

jay042 wrote:From the begining Paramount has never bothered to maintain the tight control over what is canon and what is not the way Star Wars did with their expanded universe stuff.

Which I rather liked, because it placed no limitations on authors. Or readers, for that matter.

And this is a negative how?

Heh. You'd think it would be cool, but none of them ever actually have sex. It was all about one of the character refusing to get durty with his three other bond-mates because he wanted to explore the galaxy by sitting on DS9. It was so goddamned dull.

Oh, so it's the "if you want to follow what's happening right now in this book, you need to have to read the previous thirteen books in this series" kind of set up?

I don't know if it's that bad. I mean, you can sorta piece things together. And you can always check out memory-beta for details if you really wanna know what Tuvok was doing during Janeway's funeral, I guess.

But events jump over different series. It's not a thing where you can find out what happened by just backtracking to the previous novel. They might make mention of the Caeliar in the current Titan series or whatever, but that was something introduced way back in Destiny. Or they might kill off a character who was introduced five storylines back, and you'd be like, "well, who the hell was that bitch and why was Worf fucking her?"

Some stories still seem to be stand-alones which are not ever again referenced. There was a novel called The Buried Age which examined Picard's life between the destruction of the Stargazer and his captaincy of the Enterprise (during which he knocked boots with this weird alien hotty), and I don't think that storyline has been mentioned since.

Rain Partier

jay042 wrote:From the begining Paramount has never bothered to maintain the tight control over what is canon and what is not the way Star Wars did with their expanded universe stuff.

Which I rather liked, because it placed no limitations on authors. Or readers, for that matter.

And this is a negative how?

Heh. You'd think it would be cool, but none of them ever actually have sex. It was all about one of the character refusing to get durty with his three other bond-mates because he wanted to explore the galaxy by sitting on DS9. It was so goddamned dull.

Oh, so it's the "if you want to follow what's happening right now in this book, you need to have to read the previous thirteen books in this series" kind of set up?

I don't know if it's that bad. I mean, you can sorta piece things together. And you can always check out memory-beta for details if you really wanna know what Tuvok was doing during Janeway's funeral, I guess.

But events jump over different series. It's not a thing where you can find out what happened by just backtracking to the previous novel. They might make mention of the Caeliar in the current Titan series or whatever, but that was something introduced way back in Destiny. Or they might kill off a character who was introduced five storylines back, and you'd be like, "well, who the hell was that bitch and why was Worf fucking her?"

Some stories still seem to be stand-alones which are not ever again referenced. There was a novel called The Buried Age which examined Picard's life between the destruction of the Stargazer and his captaincy of the Enterprise (during which he knocked boots with this weird alien hotty), and I don't think that storyline has been mentioned since.

"You must be proud, bold, pleasant, resolute,And now and then stab, as occasion serves."

expert hobo killer

Strict31 wrote:I don't know if it's that bad. I mean, you can sorta piece things together. And you can always check out memory-beta for details if you really wanna know what Tuvok was doing during Janeway's funeral, I guess.

But events jump over different series. It's not a thing where you can find out what happened by just backtracking to the previous novel. They might make mention of the Caeliar in the current Titan series or whatever, but that was something introduced way back in Destiny. Or they might kill off a character who was introduced five storylines back, and you'd be like, "well, who the hell was that bitch and why was Worf fucking her?"

Some stories still seem to be stand-alones which are not ever again referenced. There was a novel called The Buried Age which examined Picard's life between the destruction of the Stargazer and his captaincy of the Enterprise (during which he knocked boots with this weird alien hotty), and I don't think that storyline has been mentioned since.

So it's not "New Jedi Order" complicated with twenty or so books by as many authors taking up the whole story? Ever since the Star Wars franchise jumped from Bantam to Del Rey overall line has suffered from these over complicated far reaching plots.

expert hobo killer

Strict31 wrote:I don't know if it's that bad. I mean, you can sorta piece things together. And you can always check out memory-beta for details if you really wanna know what Tuvok was doing during Janeway's funeral, I guess.

But events jump over different series. It's not a thing where you can find out what happened by just backtracking to the previous novel. They might make mention of the Caeliar in the current Titan series or whatever, but that was something introduced way back in Destiny. Or they might kill off a character who was introduced five storylines back, and you'd be like, "well, who the hell was that bitch and why was Worf fucking her?"

Some stories still seem to be stand-alones which are not ever again referenced. There was a novel called The Buried Age which examined Picard's life between the destruction of the Stargazer and his captaincy of the Enterprise (during which he knocked boots with this weird alien hotty), and I don't think that storyline has been mentioned since.

So it's not "New Jedi Order" complicated with twenty or so books by as many authors taking up the whole story? Ever since the Star Wars franchise jumped from Bantam to Del Rey overall line has suffered from these over complicated far reaching plots.

Rain Partier

jay042 wrote:So it's not "New Jedi Order" complicated with twenty or so books by as many authors taking up the whole story? Ever since the Star Wars franchise jumped from Bantam to Del Rey overall line has suffered from these over complicated far reaching plots.

Nah.

They seem to wrap up fairly quick. Stuff like the DS9 books are less a single over-arching storyline, and more like a simple continuation of events after the TV series. NJO went on for-goddamn-ever, telling one basic storyline with the battle against the YV. ST: Destiny, for example, was four books and done.

The difference is that these 'crossover" stories set up a new status quo for following stories and crossovers. Like, Picard and Beverly Crusher get married in one storyline, and in every following TNG book, they are written as a married couple. The storyline in which they got married has finished, but they remain married in new TNG stories.

Rain Partier

jay042 wrote:So it's not "New Jedi Order" complicated with twenty or so books by as many authors taking up the whole story? Ever since the Star Wars franchise jumped from Bantam to Del Rey overall line has suffered from these over complicated far reaching plots.

Nah.

They seem to wrap up fairly quick. Stuff like the DS9 books are less a single over-arching storyline, and more like a simple continuation of events after the TV series. NJO went on for-goddamn-ever, telling one basic storyline with the battle against the YV. ST: Destiny, for example, was four books and done.

The difference is that these 'crossover" stories set up a new status quo for following stories and crossovers. Like, Picard and Beverly Crusher get married in one storyline, and in every following TNG book, they are written as a married couple. The storyline in which they got married has finished, but they remain married in new TNG stories.

They have established a prose continuity, basically.

"You must be proud, bold, pleasant, resolute,And now and then stab, as occasion serves."

Rain Partier

They seem to wrap up fairly quick. Stuff like the DS9 books are less a single over-arching storyline, and more like a simple continuation of events after the TV series. NJO went on for-goddamn-ever, telling one basic storyline with the battle against the YV. ST: Destiny, for example, was four books and done.

The difference is that these 'crossover" stories set up a new status quo for following stories and crossovers. Like, Picard and Beverly Crusher get married in one storyline, and in every following TNG book, they are written as a married couple. The storyline in which they got married has finished, but they remain married in new TNG stories.

They have established a prose continuity, basically.

NJO was the worst thing. Put me off Star Wars books since everything became YV this/YV that. Actually made me miss every Bantam story being "the Empire is on a resurgence"

Some of the standalones worked best. Shadows of the Empire, the 'Tales' anthology collections and the X-Wing series were the standouts for me outside of the Thrawn trilogy. But they did also give us crap like Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi and the unintentionally campy comedic Darksaber.

Han Solo trilogy now that I think about it after discussing Shatner's books, they real like Shatner wrote them and substituted Han with Kirk in his mind, that was kind of its appeal because it was like a Han Solo love letter to creepy proportions

Rain Partier

They seem to wrap up fairly quick. Stuff like the DS9 books are less a single over-arching storyline, and more like a simple continuation of events after the TV series. NJO went on for-goddamn-ever, telling one basic storyline with the battle against the YV. ST: Destiny, for example, was four books and done.

The difference is that these 'crossover" stories set up a new status quo for following stories and crossovers. Like, Picard and Beverly Crusher get married in one storyline, and in every following TNG book, they are written as a married couple. The storyline in which they got married has finished, but they remain married in new TNG stories.

They have established a prose continuity, basically.

NJO was the worst thing. Put me off Star Wars books since everything became YV this/YV that. Actually made me miss every Bantam story being "the Empire is on a resurgence"

Some of the standalones worked best. Shadows of the Empire, the 'Tales' anthology collections and the X-Wing series were the standouts for me outside of the Thrawn trilogy. But they did also give us crap like Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi and the unintentionally campy comedic Darksaber.

Han Solo trilogy now that I think about it after discussing Shatner's books, they real like Shatner wrote them and substituted Han with Kirk in his mind, that was kind of its appeal because it was like a Han Solo love letter to creepy proportions

Rain Partier

fieldy snuts wrote:NJO was the worst thing. Put me off Star Wars books since everything became YV this/YV that. Actually made me miss every Bantam story being "the Empire is on a resurgence"

Some of the standalones worked best. Shadows of the Empire, the 'Tales' anthology collections and the X-Wing series were the standouts for me outside of the Thrawn trilogy. But they did also give us crap like Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi and the unintentionally campy comedic Darksaber.

Han Solo trilogy now that I think about it after discussing Shatner's books, they real like Shatner wrote them and substituted Han with Kirk in his mind, that was kind of its appeal because it was like a Han Solo love letter to creepy proportions

The Shatner books were reigned in to a degree by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens (what a goddamned mouthful), who co-wrote the books. They were probably responsible for keeping the books from reading like a front page Zechs post after learning that Dr. Doom will be portrayed in the next FF movie by Cyborg Superman.

It was right around the time Kirk jobbed Worf that I realized this was as good as the books were gonna get. I was pretty sure the only reason they painted a Defiant-Class ship black and renamed it "Enterprise" was so Kirk could have the first interracial kiss with a space ship. J&GR-S probably kept Shatner from writing a scene where Kirk started humping the ship's main computer only to wake up in bed the next day in between V'Ger and Nomad, sharing a cigarette.

Rain Partier

fieldy snuts wrote:NJO was the worst thing. Put me off Star Wars books since everything became YV this/YV that. Actually made me miss every Bantam story being "the Empire is on a resurgence"

Some of the standalones worked best. Shadows of the Empire, the 'Tales' anthology collections and the X-Wing series were the standouts for me outside of the Thrawn trilogy. But they did also give us crap like Crystal Star, Children of the Jedi and the unintentionally campy comedic Darksaber.

Han Solo trilogy now that I think about it after discussing Shatner's books, they real like Shatner wrote them and substituted Han with Kirk in his mind, that was kind of its appeal because it was like a Han Solo love letter to creepy proportions

The Shatner books were reigned in to a degree by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens (what a goddamned mouthful), who co-wrote the books. They were probably responsible for keeping the books from reading like a front page Zechs post after learning that Dr. Doom will be portrayed in the next FF movie by Cyborg Superman.

It was right around the time Kirk jobbed Worf that I realized this was as good as the books were gonna get. I was pretty sure the only reason they painted a Defiant-Class ship black and renamed it "Enterprise" was so Kirk could have the first interracial kiss with a space ship. J&GR-S probably kept Shatner from writing a scene where Kirk started humping the ship's main computer only to wake up in bed the next day in between V'Ger and Nomad, sharing a cigarette.

"Kirk-Unit, V'Ger does not wish this to become weird..."

"Sterilize! Sterilize!"

"I don't believe in the no-win scenario, bitches."

"You must be proud, bold, pleasant, resolute,And now and then stab, as occasion serves."