The utter generosity of the poor humbles us. They give rice to every mendicant even when their rice is getting over. That is what needs to be understood - their greatnes and their richness. That is what they are defined by. That they are impoverished is what defines us.
We are the cause of that poverty - and the onus is on us to share deeply and completely. (nagesh333@gmail.com)

Monday, 13 June 2016

FB Discussions - Brahmin bashing and cabbages ...

I wish the brahmin
bashing would end. The reality gets lost when everything is called a
brahminical ploy.

There is an SC community
and a non SC community. The non SC are made of different community groupings,
and they pull along among themselves. The Reddys feel richer, the Naidus feel
wiser, the Brahmins feel holier. Each feels most superior to the other. The SC
community is deeply violated, and every non SC community is equally implicated.
And the matter begins and ends there.

At least among the Tamil brahmins, my own community which I know
of closely, many have packed up and left for the land of greenbucks, USofA. I
think its pointless bashing them any more, as they are not there at all ! The
few who are poor temple priests are also not capable of exploiting much today !

Aparna KrishnanAs Nagesh said
Brahminical is different from Brahmin.. If people wish to call all upper caste
'brahminical', I suppose thats their wish. I find it obfuscating, and thereby
the other upper classes, equally explotative of the SC, can point fingers at
the brahmins instead of looking deeply within and correcting themselves.

Aparna KrishnanPointing
fingers at others and going on flag marches demanding the others be judged, to
the exclusion of examining oneself, is the modern day style.

Bindhu VinodhHinduism is a
vertical pyramid of horrors where people at top of the pyramid exploit and
oppress everyone below them. Brahmins are at the top of the pyramid and
followed by other groups - SC/ ST at the bottom most. So everyone at the other
levels of the pyramid - has a bit of " brahminism " in them.

Bindhu VinodhNone of the
temple priests are poor - it is the most easy way to make easy money - reserved
for brahmins. First - why should the job of priest / pujaris be reserved for
brahmins? God willnt listen to the prayers of other caste people? These are the
convenient rules created by brahmins to continue to have superiority over the
society they live in.

Aparna Krishnan"Hinduism
is a vertical pyramid of horrors where people at top of the pyramid exploit and
oppress everyone below them." ... too textbookish ma. I agree that the SC
reality is a horror. But the Naidus and Reddys are Balijas are quite fine
holding omto their local practices and each felling the best in the world !!

Jagga LalgudyBindhu Vinodh -
while I am of the opinion that one need not go to a temple at all and I can
pray as I am walking, reading, listening to music in the language that I know
or comfortable at that moment of praying, I feel there is no need for an agent
ora special language to pray to God. That is utter stupidity of a
human being to feel the need for an agent - a priest and fatten him. Then
complain that he is making more money, while it is the selfish motive of the
"innocents" to believe and bribe by putting money in the hundi,
paying the priest. And above all please realise, that while praying to God, you
are talking to yourself - so you are GOD!

Bindhu VinodhVijayvithal JahagirdarFor a hand to
mouth existence - all that a brahmin has to do is to be a priest in a small
temple - a safe job which is jot physically taxing . But to earn the same
living - a dalit has to do the dirty job of sweeping , dealing with garbage
bare hands , drowning in the sewage etc.

Vijayvithal
JahagirdarBindhu Vinodhyou are making
lots of assumptions which may be correct in large or urban temples but are
false in smaller ones.Many who take up priesthood do so because
worshipping certain god in certain temple is the hereditary responsibility of
theirfamily.Many such temples are in remote villages or in
wilderness where hardly anyone goes. So assuming that priesthood brings any
income for these priests is incorrect. For many it is a question of their
belief and a question of their devotion.Sometimes this responsibility is divided among
members of the family and at regular intervals they take a year off from their
job to fulfil their responsibility and live off their savings during this
period. You can very well imaging the impact on the career of a person who
takes a year off every 3-4 years.Some priests have given up their jobs and entered
priesthood because they found the local temple abandoned and in ruins with no
one offering daily pooja and felt that it was their duty to do so.

Many a priests are under a religious vow to eat
nothing but exactly a handful of cooked rice every day. No Sambar, No Rasam, No
Salt, No Sugar, No second serving, nothing but exactly one handful of plain
cooked rice...

Many enter priesthood out of a sense of duty and not
because it is economically rewarding.

Sitting in an AC office, on a cushioned chair, with
subsidized meals and free coffee, earning a salary which puts us in the top 10%
of indians, It is easier to say that the job of a priest is not physically
taxing or a hand to mouth existence is what they deserve, but walking a few
steps outside our comfort zone, roaming the villages, studying the government
reports which indicate that the median monthly per capita income of a priest is
around 5-6 hundred rupees gives us a different picture.

Lakshman KumarMadame, there
exists temples other than Tirupati and SriRangam, where there are men who were
serving just by getting peanuts..... Throwing comments of generalization in
thin air is very easy, but a bit of study will help....

Bindhu VinodhA few days ago,
four dalit youngsters died in a septic tank. Isn't that a vitiated condition
already? How is it that the deans and directors of all the top institutes are
brahmins and upper caste, and the boys that die diving in sewers are dalit? Is
itjust a matter of chance that we don't hear of some 20-year old
Seshagiri Iyengar or 35-year old Ramasubramania Sastry losing his life at work
while cleaning sewers? Does that chance have something to do with privilege? Is
it the result of a human system or some divine pre-ordination? Why can't we
have few seats in menail jobs reserved for upper caste ?

Bindhu VinodhComing yo the
priest topic - none of you answered why shouldnt that job be open to everyone
who qualifies for it rather than reserving it for brahmins?

Aparna KrishnanThe potter was
potterring, the weaver was weaving, the priest was priesting. Anyway in the
here and now, none of them want to do any of those ma. Schooling-for-all is the
mantra. A mantra to nowhere. And that is my current concern.

Lakshman KumarI personally
support the judgement that rules the priestship in temples cannot be based on
birth but with following Aagama principles. Though I am reluctant in agreeing
with the later part that sanctum sanctorium is preserved for a particular
class, I believe in respecting the sentiments and beliefs of believers.

Lakshman KumarBindhu- I don't think
you would have also heard any A Chettiyar, B Gounder, C Mudhaliyar, D Vanniyar,
E Devar, F Reddy, G Naidu, H Singh, I Gowda, X Lingayat, J Nayar, K Kamma dying
in a sewage ? Have you ? The manual scavenging is a worst black holein society
along with other atrocities towards Dalit brothers and every individual who
doesn't does the manual scavenging is responsible for this along with Govt...
Targeting a particular community and pack them with a set of blames to wash our
hands is venomous.. nothing else

Aparna KrishnanThat
brahmin-baiting is a baggage that a certian ideology carries. I for one have
largely learnt to ignore it. There is an SC and a non-SC. They like to call the
latter category brahmins. It doesnt matter much to me personally, but I think
it detracts from understand the issue properly and thus addressing it wholly.

Vijayvithal
JahagirdarBindhu Vinodhyou are welcome
to undergo the required training in vedas and pooja paddati and become a priest
of a Temple because frankly speaking most brahmins do not want to do it anymoresmile emoticon

In Bangalore there is a place called vidhyapeetha
near banshankari where kids as young as six year old stay in a residential
gurukul system for 10-15 years learning the shashtra's inorder to qualify for
being a pandit, There are many such institutions run by various communities
across the country you can select any such institution for training to be a
pandit and priest in a temple patronized by members of that community.

Since an illiterate farmer cannot aspire to be a S/W
engineer in google without spending time learning the domain similarly you
cannot aspire to be a priest in a temple catering to the needs of a particular
community without being trained in the scriptures and philosophies of that
community

Most of the communities have their own temples where
the priest belong to the same community.I have seen temples with SC priests, temples with ST
priests and for that matter there are temples in India where the priest is a
muslim.

Aparna KrishnanThere are many
occasions where in a caste based society, caste is irrelevant. Anandiah is the
priest at the Aanjaneyalu temple in the Reddy village of Varadappanaidupeta.
The Maalapalle washerman, though lower in caste, is the priest in all the
Maalapalle Gangamma functions. In the Bharatam story and drama celebrations,
caste divisions do not exist. All castes together pull the tapasu maanu pole
during the Bharatam. Woman of all castes together circle the tree in dripping
clothes to pray for a child.http://paalaguttapalle.blogspot.in/.../is-caste-issue.html

The utter generosity of the poor
humbles us. They give rice to every mendicant even when their rice is getting
over. That is what needs to be understood - their greatnes and their richness.
That is what they are defined by. That they are impoverished is what defines
us. We are the cause of that pove…

PAALAGUTTAPALLE.BLOGSPOT.COM

Vijayvithal
JahagirdarBindhu VinodhRegarding your
comment about reservation in menial jobs from brahmins, Brahmins will actually
welcome it with joy. Please agitate for this, all brahmins will support you.

you might find the results of a google search on
"brahmin economic status" informative.Quoting from one of the resultshttp://www.hindustantimes.com/.../story...Today 75% of all domestic help and cooks are
Brahmins.Over 50% of rickshaw pullers in Delhi (not the auto
rickshaw the manual one) are BrahminsThe 50 Sulabh sauchalaya in Delhi are manned by
BrahminsIn Karnataka the per capita income for a brahmin is
Rs 537 which is the lowest among all caste.The priest job in a large temple that you eye pays a
handsome salary of Rs 300, This is after 15-20 years of intensive formal study

Maybe, Just maybe, it is time to leave pre conceived
bias and hate towards a particular community behind and look at the world
through secular non-casteist eyessmile emoticon

Bindhu VinodhThe problem,
however, is that it is almost impossible to have an open discussion about caste
with Brahmins. My experience is that there are usually three types of reactions
to any attempt to start a rational debate:-We are not responsible for what our ancestors did.
This is not an acceptable argument. Ask not for whom the bell tolls, the bell
tolls for thee! We are all responsible for the whole of humanity-we are our
brothers' keepers. We may not be directly culpable, but we certainly are
morally bound to admit that where we are today was built on the exploitation of
others. As citizens, we need to have a proper sense of history and of the past.
The bad things cannot be denied, when we continue to take advantage of the good
ones. This is simply the argument for the status quo. Once we adopt this point
of view, we deny the need for any change.Brahmins resemble Jews in some ways, though they
have not been persecuted as viciously as the Jews. They are a small, closely
knit group of persons, with very clear notions about how separate and special
they are when compared to the rest of society. Remember what Robert Burns said:Would some power the gift(ie) give us,

Bindhu VinodhThe second
response to an open discussion about caste is to say that these things, that is
exploitation of lower castes, no longer happens. This is a very dangerous thing
to say, when the truth is exactly the opposite and when Brahmins have such a
large role in making and implementing policies to improve the lot of the lower
castes. Like ostriches, many of the Brahmins I know, simply put their heads in
the sand and pretend that everybody is equal

Bindhu VinodhYes..started by
a brahmin on a defensive side that they aren't responsible for this inequality.

Vijayvithal
JahagirdarBindhu Vinodh, how different is your theory of "pay for the sins of
ancestors" to a similar theory from RSS which wants Muslims and Christians
to pay for the genocide launched by their ancestors?

Lakshman KumarI'll defend any
singular group targeted for the responsibility of a complete society and
generation, Yes, Brahmins were also part of this evil as they shared the power
with all other dominant castes in pre independence era... After Independence,
the power got moved on to other other levels in Pyramid, this is gradual and
natural... But your argument of paying for sins of ancestors is highly venomous...
What do you expect ? To go on a genocide on Brahmins just Hitler did for Jews,
quoting his initial days... ?

Bindhu VinodhI have a
solution though which I would like to suggest to you. It is a derived solution
which has succeeded admirably in a similarly divided country elsewhere. I have
always admired the masterly manner in which Mandela, Desmond Tutu and the
others handled the post-apartheid social and political revolution in South
Africa. The Commission for Truth and Reconciliation was a brilliant success-it
simply brought all the inequities of apartheid into the open and it offered
forgiveness, not punishment, to those who had been violent and murderous.

Aparna KrishnanBindu, I opened
the discussion to expand the culpability to the entire non-SC tribe, including
the brahmins. I have nowhere in any post stated that we (the non SC) are free
of the oppressions of the ages that the SC have sufferred. It was precisely
with that understanding that after finishing my studies, I moved to an SC
village which has been home since then. And twenty years have gone by there. It
is precisely this noisy shouting Bindu that detracts from all reasonable
discussions. Yes, and I question my friends and family of all catses when they
do not, after all the priviliges thropugh youth, throw in their lot with the
disadvantaged. And not just on FB debates ma.

Bindhu VinodhIf we could
only get higher castes ( inc. me and I admit it rather than defend) to admit
that bad things are being done to lower castes, to accept that such things
should not continue, to vow that this will be stopped by common action, then
lower castes could be persuaded to forgive ancient crimes and biases. But
forgiveness can come, as Christians believe, only first with admission of a
wrong and confession. South Africa succeeded because of the strong Christian
ethos and its emphasis on forgiveness. Unfortunately, Hinduism has no such
polar principle around which to rally its believers.

Lakshman KumarAnd your
blanketing argument doesn't help in a discussion.... You talk to some random
individuals and make it a statement of the whole community has very little
sanity.... With all due respect, How much talks you had done with other Feudal
communities? No, just not to draw parallels - was curious on why people are so
interested to crucify Brahmins alone

Aparna KrishnanSure Bindu,
that strategy also needs to be followed up. Of the non-SC community facing and
accepting the reparations due. How do we go about it ? It is a worthwhile
procedure.

Vijayvithal
JahagirdarI was not aware of the refereed commission and checked the
Wikipedia page on the commission for truth and ..., I wonder how is it
applicable to India? The commission only looked at the cases from 1960 onwards
the oppressed party and the oppressor wereboth alive and
present at that time. The commission was about state sponsored human right
abuse. The guilty were granted amnesty instead of paying for their crimes...The brahmin bashing in India mostly takes place
based on some unaddressed crime pre independence. Unless you are thinking of
dragging 90 year old grandfathers and grandmothers from their death bed to
confront their oppressor or oppresee you are looking for asking for people to
demand apology for an sin which they are not sure whether it was committed and
by whom.post independence we already have various legal
safeguards where an oppressed person can prosecute his oppressor, or do you
feel that the present atrocities act is inadequate?

Aparna KrishnanWe, the non-SC
can publicly acknowlege that for generations the SCs have been violated by us,
and then maybe reparations and positive affirmation will be more meaningfully
addressed. Now the upper class talk nonsense of how undeserved reservation is
harming them, and saying 'make the starting line equal' !! Thats exactly what
we are trying to do with reservation et al.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaWhile I agree with many of your points, a few points on why this
issue will never go away. Control of media, upper bureaucracy, Judiciary is a
big factor in actual outcomes for many issues. While there are many Brahmins
who do good work on the field, afew simply use
their powers to dictate terms and policies, which have a profound impact on
society.

This is the problem that needs to be addressed. Just
take "The Hindu" for eg., they have always taken an antagonistic
stand to what the people feel in any issue here. When the AWBI VP says they are
more evolved than us,what does it mean? He is in a position to cause impact and
has done it too with the Jallikattu ban.

Just read up on Judicial reforms as well as
implementation of Mandal Commission in Union Govt jobs.

p.s.: I never support or condone targeting of
individuals just because they are from a certain community, nor do I target
communities as such. It's certain thought processes and belief systems that we
question, that is across all privileged communities.

Aparna KrishnanYes, thanks for
that point. Which you had mentioned earlier sometime also I remember. I agree
that they are not that harmless because as you say they inhabit the
intellectual corridors of power and the impact of their biases can be vast.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaAgain, I take the liberty with Brahmins a lot more than I do
with any other community apart from my own, as I've a vested interest in them
being true to their roots!

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaJust see any development, globalization, centralization agenda
and you will also find many supporters who are Brahmin. There are a few
opposers too, but they are not in the positions of power or influence.
Similarly it's even harder for a non Brahmin person to go against this agenda
and make an impact.

What MS Swaminathan did and what Nammalvar did are
classic examples of this. It took MS Swaminathan a few years to spread the
chemical driven, hybrid monocropping while it took Nammalvar a lifetime to
barely scratch the surface.

Just google Neeya Naana episode of GMOs and see who
are the people defending that and the power they wield through media, policy
makers and corporates.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaFor me it doesn't matter if a 1000 Hindutva supporting Brahmins
come, but it will matter if my village Brahmin loses his roots!

Aparna KrishnanWhat was
Nammalwar's caste ? As to Swaminathan's successes, it was possibly more because
he was speaking the dominant corporate langauge when he supported chemical
farming, than due to his Brahmin genes ! When later he came out in support of
farmers and organic farming methods to an extent, he was ignored !

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaWhen my village Brahmin loses his roots, he will promote the
centralized religious & cultural practices. He will not have the good of
the village in mind but what suits his survival and propagation of his belief
systems.

Nammalvar chucked the perverted system and dug up
our roots for answers.

Swaminathan blamed the farmers for using excessive
amount of chemicals!

Aparna Krishnan"but it
will matter if my village Brahmin loses his roots". Why ?

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaBecause we use him to resolve contentious issues, out of
respect. But if he loses his roots, his judgment will always be suspect.

Aparna KrishnanToday also ? In
our village madhyasthams all castes are represented. If it is in dalitwada, the
dalit elders sit together. Our area actually has no brahmin at all that i know
of !

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaTill date, especially when it comes to rituals etc. you do
realise if there is one community that can shut up our Naidu egos, it's the
Brahmins.

Aparna KrishnanMaybe the
village brahmins maintain the austerity that is part of their code. i hold no
brief for the city brahmins !

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaYes, I'm yet to meet a single Brahmin person who never left the
village, talk about Hindutva! Hindutva influences only uprooted people. When
people lose their roots, they talk about nation, dangers of evangelism,
military might, etc.

Rooted people will not talk about these things but
about local economy, decentralization, diversity etc.

Arun Tamilahi have seen
brahmins supporting sc quota and helping in studies too. same time there are
many dominating on them. to say the fact though their mind supports sc as a
human their genetic and intteligence over powers it. but they are also good
hearted. we cannot hide full pumpkin uder our food

Manish PanditAparna Krishnanthe tendency to reduce Hinduism to "the terrible caste
system" is a typical construct of Pentecostal Christians. I can show you
the FCRA accounts for NGO organisations where an amount greater than the entire
budget of the navy is givento shore up this propaganda and hate in just one state of India.Of course, our Indians swallow it hook, line and
sinker, that is normal.... self hate comes easily.

This is a practised art which has reached humungous
proportions where Hinduism is termed "dark" and its Hindus even
"darker". Many videos exist from TN and AP of this problem.Best part, this apartheid is swallowed by Indians in
full.

Hinduism produced Jnaneshwar, Tukaram, Tulsidas,
Meera bai, Vivekananda, Ramakrishna but of course none of these examples
matter....The British left but left their education system
behind... this has eaten the nation like termites, what was remaining was
finished by 60 years of neglect.India is currently on its way to becoming slowly the
war zone between two religions (like Nigeria): Pentecostals (not old style
Christians mind you) and radical political Islam supported (unknowingly
sometimes) by Communists.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaWhen Buddha took on the caste system and the Brahmins of the
day, there was no Christianity or Evangelism. When Basavanna renounced caste
oppression ridden Hinduism of the day, there was no evangelism.

This whole attitude of attributing the revolt
against caste oppression and Brahmanical thoughts to "Western"
interventions is ridiculous and typical of the dismissive approach to counter
opinion of the people.

Aparna KrishnanTrue. But again
the response of the westernized Indians to negate everything to do with the
caste formation of the fabric of this country is equally inane. One needs to
face its reality, its strengths, the shamefulness of the Dalit fact, and act in
a real manner.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaRightwingers will say left wingers are the problem, left wingers
will say right wingers are the problem. We say both are the problem!

Manish PanditOf course....
when Buddha "took on" caste, whatever he founded effectively still
had Dharma systems in place... reincarnation, law of karma, even in most of
Tibetan buddhism the deities and mantra system is similar.When Babasaheb Ambedkar took on caste, he said
various things about Islam n Christianity... but modern followers simply have
very little mooring in those thoughts.

Remember one thing: hate never produces anything of
substance, for that you require love.. Whether Gandhi, Mandela or Martin Luther
King, they all accepted this basic fact of life.Bringing up a generation of people to understand an
idea of reduction of Hinduism to the caste system is not the right idea.Where did yoga come from? Where did Ayurveda come
from? Why do even Muslims worship Saraswati before they try and practice music?
Why did Shakya muni Buddha worship Goddess Tara?These questions require you to understand that
Hinduism is NOT just the caste system.Anyway.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaThe greatest disservice to Hinduism is done by the loudest
proponents. How many Brahmins have come out against the caste system? Or social
justice?

Is India a vegetarian country? How many are opposed
to this homogenization project of one religion, one language one culture? How
many support reservation? Just see who is sharing vitriol against reservation
system?

Most of the so called Hinduism proponents now are
from the RSS school of thought and have read Rajiv Malhotra's book and all they
do is undermine the genuine voices of Hindus themselves, the majority of who
are non Brahmin and meat eaters too.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaWhy is it that any criticism of the ills of Hinduism is
dismissed immediately? The very foundation of our value system is based on
debate.

Aparna KrishnanThere are
'notions' everywhere. Most english speaking people I suspect are not rooted in
local communities. And then they lose a basic sensing of the country. And what
the religion that people practice is actually, and the good and ills of every
structure of the religion, starting from the caste system. It is all
textbookish.

Manish PanditPlease debate
then.... and learn to accept that sometimes what you have held true for years
could also be wrong.I am an experimenter with various mantras... for
decades. I teach "Sc/St" people homa because they too have the right
to learn but most importantly to experience "Bhagwan"/"Devatas"
within their own body in this lifetime.

Very happy that you teach them all of that, but will
you accept the fact that that was never their religion? In a way you are just
proudly proclaiming evangelical efforts.

Let's take the Ramayana for instance. Do you know
how many versions of the same are there? There are versions where Sita is
Raavana's daughter. There are versions where she is not exactly
"virtuous". Now are these even discussed here? Any such discourse
will be immediately banned and dismissed as Western influenced.

No one here claims evangelists are saints, but to
dismiss the thought processes of the subaltern as being only capable of
influence and not self created is the patronizing attitude that needs to go.

A tribe in Jharkhand mourns during Navaratri as for
them Asuras were their ancestors.

Aparna KrishnanHere I would
pause. What i have understood in the village is their all encompassing
religion.They incorporatet sanskrit prayers, their own Gangamma and the animal
sacrifices, a pilgrimage to Tirumala, a pilrimage to the local oracle who has
manifestations of Yerpachchamma ... it is all sacred to them. The
differentiation of Sanskrit and folk is in our minds

Aparna KrishnanBut I agree
that the sanskritized try to 'teach them', and this is utterly problematic.

Komakkambedu
Himakiran AnugulaWe need to understand that at some point of time, they were all
"taught" these things. nothing wrong with that as long as we admit
it. Ramanujar IMO was the greatest evangelist for bringing so many communities
under Sri Vaishnavism. Can anyone deny that?

We follow that and also our own nature &
ancestor worship. As simple as that.

Aparna Krishnanthey have the
deep inner confidence to accept other traditions and incorporate. that is the
indian way. The left negates all things indian. the right rejects everything it
thinks is non-indian. only the village people are confident and assured.

Manish PanditKomakkambedu Himakiran Anugulaheh heh. Read
Ambedkar please. You compare Ramanujar with an Evangelical Christian?Whether it was prince Gautam, Vivekananda or
Babasaheb Ambedkar, they were all sparks who came from the land of Bharata.
They all questioned the present day concepts of their time. They all reformed
systems. Ambedkar called Abrahamic religions as foreign to the nation of India
and (therefore rejected Evangelicals)... made sure that SC/ST's would only
convert to Buddhism.I am just pointing out that Ramanujar cannot be
termed "evangelical" as the term has a particular connotation with
rendering the person converted into an outsider. (not my words, but Babasaheb
Ambedkar's)Hindu systems are always open to reformers from
within whether Ramanujar or Buddha (who BTW was born a Hindu and died a Hindu).

Aparna Krishnan"Sanskrit"
is not the prerogative of Brahmanas... is the air you breathe the prerogative
of just one group of people?Does the Sun say every morning that I will only
shine on one group of houses?Nevertheless even with nature you see that some
people can take the Sunlight for hours without getting burnt, some get burnt by
the Sun in just 30 mins. Who made this difference? Was it not created by
nature?So, differences in people exist, but even then the
right thinking person should always try and emulate the Sun and try and give
whatever he or she can to every person who comes to him or her.Knowledge has to come from somebody or somewhere.Again let me quote Ambedkar here: "Sanskrit"
should be the national language of India" was proposed by Ambedkar and
shot down by Nehru.

Anyways, whether Jallikattu ban, Vemula issue (the
person who was OBC but had SC certificate despite having converted to
Christianity), even the problem with getting city dwellers to accept Ayurveda
as a method of treatment.... all these derive from the stupidity of our
education system which makes children indulge in a rat race, ensures that
traditional knowledge based systems get screwed and ensures people grow up to
be Mahesh Bhatt like figures.When the system is preparing people to be selfish
and Mahesh Bhatt like...... where will the Vivekanandas and Ambedkars come
from?

Aparna KrishnanSure, teach
them. The leftists see it as Sanskritization. I do not. I know their capacity
to take and stay rooted in vast. Their own wisdom is vast also. And yes, the
onslaught of modernity and modern mindsets which teaches them to look down on
their own is the greatest threat.

Manish PanditQ"Very
happy that you teach them all of that, but will you accept the fact that that
was never their religion?"

Ans: Your mind is still confused with the term
"religion" which is an Abrahamic construct. The term religion does
not apply to Hinduism, Buddhism or Jainism.... they are "Dharmic"
constructsAnimism is very close to Dharmic constructs.

Q"Let's take the Ramayana for instance. Do you
know how many versions of the same are there? There are versions where Sita is
Raavana's daughter."+ "not exactly virtuous"Ans: The day the world accepts difficult facts about
their leaders, it will be a great thing, but an Utopian society was never in
existence.So if you question "Mayawati" or
"Mulayam Singh yadav" or prophets of religions then you will get far
worse in India then questioning Sita and versions of Ramayana.

Q. A tribe in Jharkhand mourns during Navaratri as
for them Asuras were their ancestors.Ans. Does India celebrate that or not? Devi
worshippers celebrate Mahishasura. That is the boon given to him by Devi.To go into Dharma, my dear, you have to immerse
yourself in it. These questions will only answer themselves to you when you
start chanting Saptashati Durga.

Long and short:Inner truths are not so easy to fathom. Every
scripture of Hinduism has an inner parallel which shows itself once you open
yourself to it.Love..... not Hate is the answer.

You haven't answered my question, what you
"teach" so patronizingly is not what their ancestors believed in.
Call it religion or call it anything else.

2) Ok, so you accept that the system is far from
Utopian. Wonder why you have no problem using a Western construct of Utopia
here!

The essay 300 Ramayanas is banned in India.

3) Devi worshippers celebrate Mahishasura? Really?
What's this story of a boon? The tribals believe their ancestor was killed by
invaders. Now to layer a story on top of that is what our mythology is all
about. Ultimately what's acceptable to the Brahmins is what is allowed as
religion or Hinduism here.

That has always been questioned here and that's
exactly what this thread is about.

P.S.: stop talking in a patronizing way, you are not
exalted to talk about inner truths;

Manish PanditKomakkambedu Himakiran Anugula1. The paradigms and constructs which I mention are
true:But perhaps it will take time for you to realise
what I am saying is accurate.Religion is an Abrahamic construct and the world is
waking up to this fact on a daily basis.Religion is not Dharma.2. Which country of the world does not ban
something? Saudi Arabia, United States, Canada, even Germany and Russia have
banned something or the other.The point I want to make is simply that the Indian
system is far from perfect and is not immune to criticism.3. To understand the story one has to read it first.
I understand that you have not read it and am only pointing out that every
Durga vigraha is only complete with Mahishasura.Those tribals are free to believe that their
ancestor was killed by an "outsider" but the proof of the pudding is
in the tasting.Ask how many thousands of people experience
"inner truths" (I know that its tiring for you to hear me say this
word, but trust me I am not patronising you, I am simply talking facts here) by
just a daily recitation of those 700 verses.

PS: I dont claim that I am exhalted at all... but
thats your opinion and indeed your prerogative to voice what you want.My intention is to soothe only... and so I will
point out that the Jallikattu which you and I support and which is being banned
by the judiciary is because of a concerted attack on Dharma by "educated
idiots" and backed by the missionary nexus .All of these customs are in the way of the 10:40
window of the Joshua project.

2) Now why are you comparing with countries which
follow Abrahamic religions? You say Indian system is not immune to criticism,
but just lookat how you dismiss criticism as Western influenced! Practice what
you preach first.

3) Depicting their ancestor at the foot of Durga is
supposed to make them feel part of the Dharmic belief system? That's a plain
insult to their beliefs. When we get agitated when Hindu symbols are treated
badly in the West, why can't we show the same concern to the sentiments of the
tribals?

Please give it a rest with the verses. This is the
worst form of evangelism. You believe what you believe in. This debate is not
about that, but the social context of how we apply different yardsticks to
different people.

I'm very much aware of the Joshua project, but can
you tell why a Govt filled with Hindu torchebearers let people down when it
comes to anything non Vedic?

Naveen Manikandan PeriasamyKomakkambedu Himakiran Anugula//You say Indian system is not immune to criticism, but just
look at how you dismiss criticism as Western influenced!//I guess we'll have to refresh our memories here.
Just a few weeks ago, the same sort of allegations and aspersions were cast on
PETA and their supporters - about them being a westernized group who are
conspiring to destroy the native tradition of Jallikattu. Where did tolerance
of criticism go then? Make no mistake - I am a supporter of Jallikattu. But, it
is sheer hypocrisy when you apply different yardsticks to Dharmic belief
systems.

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About Me

In 1995, Paalaguttapalle (Dalitwada) became home. After studying engineering, working for three years, I resigned, and started looking for more meaningful and socially relevent work. An understanding of Gandhi gave the paradigm, and the search led to this village. Nagesh also came 'looking for a village to work in', and this village became home. As neighbours, friends and teacher we became part of the village ... and saw some of the timeless wisdom of villages ...