For example some DPS hit a random mob without looking at the Emnity Bar and get hate as it may have the lowest Emnity.... This is the DPS's fault, and not the tanks.

DPS should pay attention to which mob has the MOST Eminty and attack that one. This means things die faster, and you wont get hate. Nor will things run around randomly. Obviously tanks need attention aswell and ensure the get hate asap :P

The general playerbase currently needs a great deal of education in this area. Tanking lower level instances – especially when we tanks get level synced and do not have snap aggro abilities as a result (lookin' at you, Provoke) – can become arduous when both DPS decide to attack targets that the tank is not even single target threat building. I've been facepalming quite a bit as of late due to this.

However, it's standard fare in the early stages of most MMOs. It'll come to a point where I just let them grab aggro and get pummeled a few times to hopefully help them learn a valuable lesson about DPS orders.

The general playerbase currently needs a great deal of education in this area. Tanking lower level instances – especially when we tanks get level synced and do not have snap aggro abilities as a result (lookin' at you, Provoke) – can become arduous when both DPS decide to attack targets that the tank is not even single target threat building. I've been facepalming quite a bit as of late due to this.

However, it's standard fare in the early stages of most MMOs. It'll come to a point where I just let them grab aggro and get pummeled a few times to hopefully help them learn a valuable lesson about DPS orders.

You aren't the only one. Yesterday, I had an THM (Arcanists (especially the ones that refuse to use emerald carby instead of topaz) and archers tend to bad about jumping the gun like this too) that would use sleep before I could get close enough to Shield Lob then he couldn't figure out why all the hate jumped to him. After I told him the 2nd time I stopped trying to grab the hate from him and the healer refused to heal him. Once He died I would pick up the hate and once the mobs were down we would rez and move on. Once he died the 3rd time, he stopped doing it.

Well the first 3 dungeon are pretty easy and probably designed for player to learn their roles.

Learning the basic: Tank grab hate on all engaged mob via Flash or Overwhelm. DD attacks the current focus of the tank. Use number sign (marker that can be put on top of a mob) to help clarify confuse situation.

Well, be careful about how you are looking at it also. You are looking at it from a tank's perspective and not the DPS side. The enmity meters on the mobs show the character's enmity and not the tanks, so if the DPS is going for their highest enmity target, they may be pulling it off the tank. Better to look at the party enmity meters for DPS and heals I suppose.

Great info the for MMO players new to FF. In WOW for instance, hate was never an issue, the tanks threat was sooooo overpowered. But in FF they really make you work as a team since the tanks really have to work to hold threat.

One thing I did like about WOW and SWTOR was the Target of Target option. I almost always tank but when I did run DD I always had the Target of Target up so I knew the mob I was attacking was on the tank. Then the threat meter was always handy. Do they even have that in XIV, I have only run tank so I haven't looked at it?

But with the threat meter here it makes it super simple to tank, just click on the mob in the group with the lowest hate towards you and whack away and switch accordingly. Granted, DD should be doing this as to not overload the tank with responsibilities but it really isn't that hard for us to pull the slack.

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Quote: WAR has access to enough enmity gear and enough hate-inducing JA to aggro baby jesus.

Quote: When I'm trying to decide what spell to cast I look at the mobs' weaknesses, check the day, check the weather and then calmly cast Thunder IV.

The general playerbase currently needs a great deal of education in this area. Tanking lower level instances – especially when we tanks get level synced and do not have snap aggro abilities as a result (lookin' at you, Provoke) – can become arduous when both DPS decide to attack targets that the tank is not even single target threat building. I've been facepalming quite a bit as of late due to this.

However, it's standard fare in the early stages of most MMOs. It'll come to a point where I just let them grab aggro and get pummeled a few times to hopefully help them learn a valuable lesson about DPS orders.

I completely understand what you're saying and agree with you 100%, but sometimes it becomes difficult to track the tank's primary target especially if there are more than your standard 3 in the group. Marking the targets goes a long way towards burning them down fast without having to worry about threat being stolen and it's usually the sign of a great tank. Just make some macros and you're set.

Great info the for MMO players new to FF. In WOW for instance, hate was never an issue, the tanks threat was sooooo overpowered. But in FF they really make you work as a team since the tanks really have to work to hold threat.

One thing I did like about WOW and SWTOR was the Target of Target option. I almost always tank but when I did run DD I always had the Target of Target up so I knew the mob I was attacking was on the tank. Then the threat meter was always handy. Do they even have that in XIV, I have only run tank so I haven't looked at it?

But with the threat meter here it makes it super simple to tank, just click on the mob in the group with the lowest hate towards you and whack away and switch accordingly. Granted, DD should be doing this as to not overload the tank with responsibilities but it really isn't that hard for us to pull the slack.

"Target of Target" is always displayed.

If you target a mob, it will show it's target as well, next to his HP bar,

Look at the first screenshots, you can see the mob HP bar >> Takai two HP bar

It shows that Takai Two is the target of the mob and it also show you he's current HP.

The hate bar, explained in the OP, the "Target of a Target" display and the color of the icons in the enemies list give a great hate overview of the situation at any time. I very much like it and can't wait to do some more serious tanking with this.

Well, be careful about how you are looking at it also. You are looking at it from a tank's perspective and not the DPS side. The enmity meters on the mobs show the character's enmity and not the tanks, so if the DPS is going for their highest enmity target, they may be pulling it off the tank. Better to look at the party enmity meters for DPS and heals I suppose.

Fair point yea, be mindful of which Enmity Meter you follow.

Say a tank is single targeting a mob and using flash to sustain "sub mobs". If 2 DPS target one (or even separate) sub mobs, it will make the party struggle, through no fault of the tanks. PLDs for example have one "main" mob (usually a boss), which they can use Provoke ect on but if a DPS comes along and uses his entire DPS rotation on the mob with the lowest Enmity on the tank - he will most likely get hate.

Unfortunately I have met DPS they TRY to get hate and then gloat how amazing at DPS they are... If you are pulling hate on the wrong mob, you are a bad DPS and not a team player. Take you ego away please :P

This is not a ***** at DPS, of course Tanks have to tank effectively and hold hate on as many sub mobs as possible... but DPS need to recognise which mob to hit. This is where Marking is amazing.

Great info the for MMO players new to FF. In WOW for instance, hate was never an issue, the tanks threat was sooooo overpowered. But in FF they really make you work as a team since the tanks really have to work to hold threat.

One thing I did like about WOW and SWTOR was the Target of Target option. I almost always tank but when I did run DD I always had the Target of Target up so I knew the mob I was attacking was on the tank. Then the threat meter was always handy. Do they even have that in XIV, I have only run tank so I haven't looked at it?

But with the threat meter here it makes it super simple to tank, just click on the mob in the group with the lowest hate towards you and whack away and switch accordingly. Granted, DD should be doing this as to not overload the tank with responsibilities but it really isn't that hard for us to pull the slack.

Yes, there is a Target of Target option. I believe the macro for it is <tt>.

Sadly, some of these scrubs will never learn this. I got the stereotypical archer yesterday yelling at me for not healing enough while he was kiting around the boss in Tam and I was getting beat to a pulp by the adds... mainly because the tank kept dropping connection and the archer kept right on shooting through it all. Came very close from leaving that party...

Healing has always had hate issues when it comes to groups of mobs. DPS are more target oriented and usually single target, tank AoE threat is there to a point, but dropping a huge heal on a dying tank that JUST pulled a group means I'll be spam casting cure on myself till everything is dead at that point.

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"We're getting close, real close. And now for some more bad news... Ready?" -- Egg Shen

I had one ARC tell me that kiting the demon in TTD (instead of letting the tank get hate back) was better because he wasn't getting hit. Nevermind I had to cure bomb him to keep him alive and it protracted the fight WAAAAAY longer than it should have been. I told him if he grabbed hate again and started hopping around like an asshat then I wouldn't heal him anymore.

Yes sorry I am quite ignorant to the healers side of things. Thanks for the their perspective!

I think Regen puts tons of hate, among other healing spells, so yea cure nuking a silly DPS "because he is amazing at his job and pulled hate". As much as I love healers, they are squishy and often die as a result of an ego driven DPS.

This is excellent and something that needs to be included in XI in some form or another. It was always a nightmare to tank on PLD in the Aht Urghan era due to DPS jobs not knowing when to hold back and let tanks do their job.

As a pugilist, I put my DoT on all targets and then do my best to pick the target the tank is going after (tanks, keybind a target marker... it makes people's lives easier, including yours). When the icon changes to orange, I switch targets. Repeat until mobs are dead. I get to keep my full dps rotation up and put out the maximum amount of damage I'm capable of without pulling threat.

That being said, there are times when pulling threat is desirable. A Toto-Rak party I had last night had a massive problem on the final boss' adds. If the tank picked them both up, he'd die. If he didn't, the healer would die. What I finally decided to do was let the tank get them, and then peel one of them off so that I'm tanking it myself. Pop my defensive cooldowns and just punch it to death. Then do the next one. We were able to kill the boss once I did that. The key is watching, learning, and knowing when the rules no longer apply and a change in tactics is needed to get the job done.

I'd also much rather a mob was beating on me than beating on a healer. Healer can heal me if I'm being punched, they can't heal themselves if they're being punched.

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svlyons wrote:

If random outcomes aren't acceptable to you, then don't play with random people.

It's indeed handy, especially when you have to play brinksmanship on the healing when the damage is coming in hot and fast. (Low-level tank, bad aggro control, non-tanks trying to tank and splitting my casts, confluence of interruption to cast and low hp)

Most normal times that aggro slips (Inadequate tank, No sleeps, overactive healing before hate is built), a whack or two is all a Healer will get in a party with low aggro control. Things have improved beyond the days of "It's ok, i'm not mad.... I always have Reraise on, brb when weakness off"

Every healer at some point will be Tanking, for some reason or another. Be it stupidity, or a product of the circumstances. The Catch 22 is you'll be healing yourself to survive, increasing enmity, and hoping that your team can overcome the hate, without incurring so much damage themselves that the mob is right back on your keester.

Decent armor keeps the damage relatively manageable. Far more so than it was in XI, No Blink to insta-absorb that first hit or two.

If the Tank dies, and control evaporates, we can [Sprint] now for all but 15 seconds of every minute, We can exploit what used to be a [/panic] moment, and kite the Mob right back in a circle into the face of your remaining team.

Old XI people, remember your Kirin fights, hit the mob as he's coming through, or stand in the middle of the circle and hit him constantly. Anticipate, Exploit the mob's forced path until you can peel it off, don't just run behind it feeling useless. /bittervet off.