You referenced characters being INO, and what I'm saying is that even making that claim shows that you're still clinging to a notion of what Cap should be.

As for CotT, it's not the same thing. I'm only talking about the comics world. It's a different case with movies, so that's why I ignored it.

So, according to your train of thought, we could get a new comic tomorrow with a guy dressed in a all black leather outfit who is a power hungry jerk of a character, and if they call him Captain America, well... that's just ok and you accept it as the new Captain America? .. That just makes no sense... I would think that you have a line you cross at some point where you don't accept it. Our lines are just different. And the CotT is the same type scenario, which is why I brought it up.

So, according to your train of thought, we could get a new comic tomorrow with a guy dressed in a all black leather outfit who is a power hungry jerk of a character, and if they call him Captain America, well... that's just ok and you accept it as the new Captain America? .. That just makes no sense... I would think that you have a line you cross at some point where you don't accept it. Our lines are just different. And the CotT is the same type scenario, which is why I brought it up.

No, that's not what I'm getting at. If I had my way, there wouldn't be another Captain America comic, 616 or not. There would be a brand new comic starring a brand new character.

And I'm not just picking on Cap here. Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, Thor... Let 'em go. Send them out with the best stories you can and let 'em go.

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress

Yeah.

I similarly groaned his attempt at showing Cap being clever and saying that the highest ranking Black officer during WWII was a Captain.

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress

Fanwank counterpoint: Ultimate Cap knew damn well the French Resistance was a bunch of hardasses (he fought with them, after all) and was making a statement about the French government, not the people themselves.

Conclusion: Millar's an idiot either way, but it makes Ultimate Cap look a little better. Maybe.

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"That was the edge Parker had; he knew that survival was more important than heroics. It isn't how you play the game, it's whether you win or lose.”
~ Richard Stark, Deadly Edge

Fanwank counterpoint: Ultimate Cap knew damn well the French Resistance was a bunch of hardasses (he fought with them, after all) and was making a statement about the French government, not the people themselves.

Conclusion: Millar's an idiot either way, but it makes Ultimate Cap look a little better. Maybe.

Good take on it. Made me almost reconsider hating that line. But only almost...

Didn't work for who? Every reader is different. I had no problem with Ult. Cap. He had a different personality than mainstream Cap...no big deal.

I agree. Millars original Ultimate run had a few misses, Caps personality chage was not one of them. Nazis being controlled by the Chitauri was a bigger issue for me. One has to accept than in a different universe under different circumstances personalities develop differently. It's basically like Spocks anger issues in NuTrek

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It wasn't Marvel Studios that made me a Marvel Zombie, it was every other movie studio failing at making superhero movies as good as them! ------------------------------

I agree. Millars original Ultimate run had a few misses, Caps personality chage was not one of them. Nazis being controlled by the Chitauri was a bigger issue for me. One has to accept than in a different universe under different circumstances personalities develop differently. It's basically like Spocks anger issues in NuTrek

Not sure why you think that about Cap since Sam clealry pointed out a major error in that representation. Also, Spock doesnt have any different anger issues than what he had in the original series. When his family dies, he gets emotional, that's his human half.

Ah the Ultimate universe where Hulk is a cannibal and Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver practise incest

It's like Marvel accidentally employed a bunch of deviants but couldn't get rid of them because of some kind of employment protection. So they put them all to work on one section where they could entertain their perversions, but it would be fairly self contained, or so Marvel hoped.

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Quote:

Anne Hathaway: "You did not just ask me that!! What a forward young man you are!!! My goodness!!"

That now infamous line from Ultimates has always irked the hell out of me. The point (lame joke) that Millar was trying to make was that France was "a nation of cheese-eating surrender monkeys," a view commonly shared by right-wingers post-9/11, and that Cap --- a hardcore right-winger himself, at least in the Ultimate Universe --- was referencing that.

The problem with that is that the French people Cap knew in WWII (which was just a few days ago, by his time clock) were brave Resistance fighters who were laying down their lives for the sake of freedom. It's literally inconceivable that he would've made a joke that would have insulted them in that fashion.

TLDR: Mark Millar is an idiot.

Detour is now over; we rejoin the traffic jam already in progress

He's not an idiot. Millar wrote him as a parody of those kind of ultra-patriotic 'murica goobers.

He's not an idiot. Millar wrote him as a parody of those kind of ultra-patriotic 'murica goobers.

Parody doesn't supersede common sense and historical logic. To repeat: Captain America --- whether Ultimate or 616 --- fought alongside plenty of hardcore French Resistance fighters, and knew them to be courageous above and beyond the call of duty. The perception of France by the US in 1943 is vastly different than the perception in 2002, and it makes absolutely no sense for a WWII-based Cap to suddenly adopt the French-bashing mentality of this century.

I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.

I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.

He said in a pretty recent interview that the concept art they released was essentially what the costume would look like.

I know he's not since he was just on Jimmy Kimmel. Just wondering when we'll see him in the Falcon suit. He looks to have slimmed down from where he was in Pain and Gain but not too noticeably. It'll be interesting how close the Falcon suit is to the concept art that was released.

I'd imagine most of the Falcon's footage would be filmed on a soundstage.