As I had had to delete several comments, some of them extremely insulting personal attacks, on my previous post, here are some necessary reminders:

Comments on this blog are moderated. If you use words like "fuck" in your comment and make disparaging remarks about my intelligence, your comment will simply disappear without ever having been seen by anyone but me.

Thus if you actually have a point to make, keep it polite, and your comment will be posted

I am not the pope. Therefore I am fallible. Pointing out when I make a mistake is good. Attacking me for making mistakes is not.

I have the right to rant on my own blog, even if by definition a rant isn't terribly rational. Who doesn't rant if a specific piece of software can't be installed on a specific computer? That it runs well on other computers under other conditions isn't really relevant for such a rant.

If in a rant I say something negative about your favorite company, I have the right to that opinion, and you have the right to disagree with that opinion, and to post that you disagree.

If you feel the need to criticize me, you should read carefully what I actually wrote. If you only read my posts diagonally, pick up a vaguely negative tenor, and react by complaining about things I never said, I will not take you seriously at all.

If a large enough number of you try hard enough to keep me from expressing my opinions by shouting me down, you might succeed in that. Have you considered the various possible consequences of that?

In summary: I think it is best for everyone involved to keep the discussion polite.

people are mean on the internets. that's the way it's been since the dawn of time, 4000 BC. ;)

being that we're a bunch of nerds, geeks and techies, you can bet a at least some are going to take exception to the fact that you're even USING IE, let alone getting upset that bleeding edge web technology isn't going to work properly on it.

the thing is, as has been mentioned, Google suggests Chrome because Chrome has, without any question whatsoever, the FASTEST javascript engine of any browser ever, anywhere. and what does the entire concept of Wave hinge on? yep, javascript. that means the faster your javascript engine, the better Wave will run. hence the "preferably Google Chrome." this is as much about pushing technology as it is about pushing a brand.

for a demonstration of how much better Chrome is at javascript than any other browser: http://www.chromeexperiments.com

Oh man, the commenters you let through already hated me enough this week, I can only imagine how "enthusiastic" the ones you rejected were in opposition to me.

The strange thing to me is that I in no way want to stop others from playing a game their way. So many people seem to be convinced that if I were to play a game in a way they have not defined as the way it is "supposed to be played," it will somehow harm the moral fabric of all gaming in that genre. I would never want to play Darkfall, but it seems like syncaine truly enjoys it, so I'm happy for him to have and play the game he wants.

It is sad, that you have to resort to a separate post to keep things cooled down, so to speak.In a sort of similar experience, we once ran a childrens "ask anything" chat, and one of the lessons we learned there was that the first reply would set the tone for the rest of the day.If the first person would reply to his or her answer with "thank you, that was super, you rock" then the rest of the day the little ones would reply in the same manner. However, if the first reply on the first post would be something in the lines of "what a lame answer, was that all you can do?" then you would know that for the rest of the day, all comments would be like that.

being that we're a bunch of nerds, geeks and techies, you can bet a at least some are going to take exception to the fact that you're even USING IE

The problem, as I mentioned before, is that those of us who work in a non-IT job in many industries don't even get to choose whether we want to use IE on our office computers or not.

I *do* have Chrome *and* Firefox installed on a computer at home, but frankly I'm at a loss what I would want to use Wave for at home. I do see potential for it as a project management tool, but that is work, and thus has to run on my work computer.

And another note: I know us geeks and nerds on the web tend to use Firefox/Chrome/Safari over Internet Explorer, but why attack somebody for using IE? Sometimes they have to, sometimes they like to, and sometimes they really just don't care. In other words, why attack someone for using IE when it's really not your problem?

Yes, using IE has drawbacks. But IMO it is silly that Wave has no IE support, and it's also silly what IE doesn't support in it's own right.

In short, it's all a pain in the arse for pretty much everybody. Tobold, you really aren't *missing out* on Wave at the moment; it's kind of nifty and fun to play with in it's release candidate, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

I haven't read anything about Wave yet, but you have good points Tobold. Still, I have to ask, is it possible that Google developed Chrome so that they'd be able to create more advanced tools immediately, rather than wait on Microsoft to build the functionality into IE?

Personally, I don't see any reason why offices use IE aside from the fact that it comes pre-installed. In my short stint as an IT assistant, there were several times that I came across someone who needed to access a custom tool or site that IE couldn't run, and at the time I invariably installed Firefox onto their computer for them so they could use it.

Really, I'm mostly worried that we have the beginnings of a mini-console war between the browsers here. =/

The old Apple fanboys are the new Google fanboys. Now that Windows 7 already passed Apple market share, the idiots have to move to a different hype :)

And there was an "geeg, techie" wannabe talking about "bleeding edge web technologies"... ermmm... the problem is that HTML 5 is not a standard. Rather. it is a draft. What is in the draft today maybe not in the standard tomorrow.

The problem, as I mentioned before, is that those of us who work in a non-IT job in many industries don't even get to choose whether we want to use IE on our office computers or not.

I *do* have Chrome *and* Firefox installed on a computer at home, but frankly I'm at a loss what I would want to use Wave for at home. I do see potential for it as a project management tool, but that is work, and thus has to run on my work computer.And this is totally beside the point. If some company decides to start using Wave as a project management tool it is fairly safe to assume they will also use a browser that can actually run it. The individual user in company x doesnt have to worry about that, it's the IT-departments problem.

How people can be so religious about things currently as similar as web browsers escapes me. Must have a lot to do with not being able to judge the facts and thus reverting to belief. Just delete these comments for the sake of this platform Tobold, let them troll elsewhere. Since this summer's policy change, discussion on your blog has gotten so much better.

I sent your post about google wave to several friends of mine who are a lot more intelligent about those sorts of things than myself. It inspired a lot of interesting conversation on the topic, and ended with me having a google wave account and playing around with it.

Blogs are there for you to both rant and to instigate dialogue, debate, and thought. Your post was fine, and I think you are just always going to run into the violent fanboi masses anytime you question the superiority of A) something Google or B) something Mac.

I can imagine (or maybe I really can't) the sort of vitriol your last post generated. However, the majority of comments you approved were polite, on point, and took you to task for relevant information about IE and Wave that you disregarded. That you then wrote a fairly sharp reply in your comments, essentially painting the previous commentors as "internet fanbois" with the attention span and reading capacity of a five year old, probably didn't engender any good will either.

I was kinda suprised, the anti Microsoft hate is still out there. You'd think they'd have grown up by now when they realize that rent-seeking and other anti-competative behavior is something every large company does, because the government encourages it, politicians want their campaign money. Apple does it, Google does it, as well as Microsoft. It's them against the little guys, since once you get big, you don't care about OTHER little guys, they are your competition.

Aww Tobold, don't be discouraged by some of the negativity that is inherent to the Internet. A lot of us, if not most of us, really like your blog exactly because of its 'debate the argument not the person' tone. Even when we don't necessarily see eye to eye it's still a great place to see what other people think and what makes them think that.

rent-seeking and other anti-competative behavior is something every large company does, because the government encourages it, politicians want their campaign money. Apple does it, Google does it, as well as Microsoft.

Yeah, I think I'm probably just ahead of my time here. In five years considering Google to be an anti-competitive evil empire will be as normal as that point of view is for Microsoft now.

The problem, as I mentioned before, is that those of us who work in a non-IT job in many industries don't even get to choose whether we want to use IE on our office computers or not.

I *do* have Chrome *and* Firefox installed on a computer at home, but frankly I'm at a loss what I would want to use Wave for at home. I do see potential for it as a project management tool, but that is work, and thus has to run on my work computer.

yeah, i get that, i really do, and i feel for you. doesn't change the nerd rage people feel when they find out why so many people are still using IE (that is, companies whose IT resources are being spent maintaining dinosaur computers running dinosaur browsers). my uncle works for Hewlett-Packard and they still use IE 6 as a corporate policy. Hewlett-Packard!

a friend of mine is in the same boat at his company. they FINALLY got approval to upgrade their office to IE 7 just last week. it's absurd.

point being, IE is nearly worthless and companies need to get with modern times. as far as using Wave at work for project management or whatever else, if a company wants to use Wave at all, they're going to have to use IE 8 or ditch IE together.

And there was an "geeg, techie" wannabe talking about "bleeding edge web technologies"... ermmm... the problem is that HTML 5 is not a standard. Rather. it is a draft. What is in the draft today maybe not in the standard tomorrow.

That's they call it "experiment" at http://www.chromeexperiments.com

Simple, eh?

what the hell are you talking about? i never said anything in that post about HTML 5 being a standard. i said that Wave needs a fast javascript engine and Chrome has a fast javascript engine--which the Chrome experiments demonstrate.

It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't seem that you are being purposefully disingenuous about the whole thing.

You made it seem that Google is trying to force you into using Chrome, when that is simply not the case.

Additionally, I can understand and accept the fact that you do not have the technical facts in hand, but seriously you may want to be a bit less misleading and confrontational in your posts unless you're just trying to troll.

It wouldn't be so bad if it didn't seem that you are being purposefully disingenuous about the whole thing.

You made it seem that Google is trying to force you into using Chrome, when that is simply not the case.

Define "you made it seem"! I would say you purposefully disingenuously misread what I wrote and are accusing me of something I never did. I said that Wave suggests I install a different browser PREFERABLY Chrome. I based that statement on the fact that the Chrome Plugin is preselected, followed by the Chrome Browser as second option, with Firefox and Safari being lower in the list.

Nowhere did I say that you were forced to use Chrome. Thus it is the people who attacked me for not saying that you could use Firefox who were misleading on purpose. You attacked me just based on a vaguely negative vibe you subjectively felt, not on anything I actually wrote.

"Yeah, I think I'm probably just ahead of my time here. In five years considering Google to be an anti-competitive evil empire will be as normal as that point of view is for Microsoft now."

No, there are plenty of people, even prominent ones in the tech industry/blogosphere, who think likewise. A quick google will testify to that fact. However, neither your initial post nor your subsequent comments have made a compelling case for Google Wave being an example of an anti-competitive service. Many of the comments, most of which were cogent and polite, have borne this out.

You're quite within your right to complain about the sort of criticism lobbed in feedback threads. However, you might prevent some of the more virulent attacks if you were to cop to mistakes when you make them.

Further reading on Google as possibly evil corporate overlord.... from six years ago (January 2003): http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.01/google_pr.html.