Posted 2 years ago on Jan. 21, 2013, 11:49 a.m. EST by bensdad
(8977)
This content is user submitted and not an official statement

I hate censorship, but this forum could be much improved by more civility.
Many of us are angry at Wall Street, angry at alec, angry at Obama, angry at koch.
We may hate them, we may distrust them, we may want to lambaste them.
Venting may make us feel better, but I feel that this forum can be improved with facts and ideas - rather than rants.
I feel that honest discourse on any issue is facilitated by light, not fire.
I have seen attempts at dialog degenerate into dishonesty, name calling and obfuscation to change the subject.

When Ben played with his set of blocks, I told him –
“It’s always easier to knock something down than to build something up”.
So many of our posts knock something – or someone down – with no “up” at all.
While I think name calling of a group or organization is borderline,
name calling an individual – especially a fellow poster – is far over the line.

A few points:

Please DO NOT LIE – we all know how easy it is to use the internet to find the truth

Please be a mench – when someone asks you a question – answer it –
don’t change the subject because you cannot defend your position or don’t know the answer.

Please do not post inflammatory “headlines” just to attract attention

Please, If you have a source, post the link

Getting in the ”last lick” in a debate is just silly

Please do not post opinions as facts

Slogans are not solutions or informative

If you seek release or if you are a troll – go ahead – rant and rave.

HOWEVER

If you want respect for yourself and your opinions and your ideas,
civility and honesty is much more productive.

"racism, classism, slavery, and genocide" are all in the employ of the frauds that concentrate wealth with leaders who act in their own self interest instead of that of the community. Treacherous leadership is the abomination of human nature by corruption of social instinct that makes civilization a fraud.

Greed! Causing innocent blood to flow. Entire culture, lost in the overthrow. They came to seize and take whatever they please. Then all they gave back was death and disease. People were left with no choice but to decide. To conform to a system, responsible for genocide. Responsible for genocide. Responsible for genocide...

'AIDS is killing the entire African nation. And a vaccine is still supposedly under preparation. But these governments they don't mind the procrastination. They say "We'll kill them off, take their land and go there for vacation."'

People's culture was strong, it was pure. And if not for that white greed It would've endured.People were left with no choice but to decide to conform to a system. Their minds enslaved. Their souls encaged. Feel the rage. It's brutality can never be undone. But the sun is not yet set. The bass and drums and microphones a threat. That's when ya investigate the crimes from the inside. And see that they're responsible for genocide. Responsible for genocide. Responsible for genocide...

Ya cram ya culture down my throat. Say I'm inferior when I find that I choke. Ya fill my mind with a false sense of history. And then you wonder why I have no identity? Well I'll strike a match and it'll catch and Spread the insight we need A tiny fire, burning bright Shedding light on the darkness of greed

As long as the facts are accurate, personally I'm fine with the foul language. But I am also a George Carlin fan.

Supporting members of the corporate state is knocking something down. It's knocking down the people. You should take your own advice Bensdad. Build something up. It is way harder than sticking to the corporate mold.

You do bring up a good point with this though "I have seen attempts at dialog degenerate into dishonesty, name calling and obfuscation to change the subject."

I dont complain about vulgarity - I think vulgarity degrades the speaker.
I am a Carlin fan
If you want to see what I built up:
our NYC OWS web sitehttp://corporationsarenotpeople.webuda.com
I wrote more than half of the non - attributed documents
what do you think of what I built up?

Will your web site be partisan too? You have been misrepresenting what this movement is about for a long time. This is just another attempt by a group, or a person in this case to feed off the energy of Occupy by attaching your creed to it on your home page. At best you are erroneously cultivating a belief that our rotten political system can take us where we need to go.

"Will your web site be partisan too?"
Go to the web site and decide for yourself
It includes willard, ron paul, witches. Sanders, Warren, Chomsky, Lessig, Cobb, Stevens
frov-- that may be the silliest statement I have ever seen here!
"You have been misrepresenting what this movement is about for a long time."
this is a close second - how can I represent for a leaderless movement?

Bensdad, your 17 month continuing history of promoting partisanship on here speaks for itself. Unless you have underwent some sort of an epiphany, and now understand that supporting/promoting candidates of the corporate state...like Obama,.. who continues to betray the 99% in deeds.. under the auspices of OCCUPY.. is not what this struggle is about, and it definitely is not a winning strategy, I will not waste my time in visiting your site again.

And just by viewing your comments here, it is easy to discern that you have not underwent any kind of metamorphosis in your thinking.. By attaching yourself to the robes of OCCUPY, even meeting in the Atrium where so many good OWS people....(who sacrifice so much).. meet, and who understand what this rev is about, does not give your vain attempt to steer this movement into a new partisan direction, ..that you are yearning for... credence. Instead, to me, it is an affront to those courageous, dedicated, mostly young people.

Your brand of activism under the OCCUPY banner... is far more harmful than helpful, in that it gives people the false belief that this rev can be won in the voting booth. We are not protesting the Vietnam War now, with the major difference being the political system then was not broken, and the MSM was not near as corrupt. You fail to understand that.

Finally..."silliest statement[s]"....yes that is accurate in meaning, but the context, and the person 'who is spewing them' is a bit off.

~Odin~.

Addendum: I do hope that I have stayed within your proposed new guiidelines for "civility."

Your history on this forum, for as far back as I can remember shows how partisan you have been. It comes down to this:

Have you rehabilitated yourself? If your below comment is a precursor as to the kind of thing that will be on your site, the answer is: 'I don't thinnnnnk so.' "....but he [Obama] has always stood with us." At this point in our fucked-up history which includes 4 years of his Presidency, how the hell can you say that?! That's simply an outrageous thing to say, and it's total bull shit. I'll let you research the examples in how Obama has betrayed us. Doing so, it will have more of an impact on you, and who knows? People do change.

I'm not into going to a lot of OWS or OTS meetings, but in the ones that I have attended, if someone got up and said what you said, I think people would laugh. Really.

Or the other possibility: Will you placate us in your new web site with stuff that you do not truly believe, for the sake of having a successful site that resembles what this movement is about?

Once you have a history, you have to live with it. Unless you have underwent some drastic change in your thinking which does not seem likely considering your 'outrageous' above comment here, i will not waste my time on your site.

I found your Occupy website valuable, informative, and non partisan. I support your personal beliefs have offended some who disagree. I support your freedom of speech/expression. I do not speak for occupy but they are clearly made up of leftist people. Many do not support either party. I see weakness (as well as some corruption) in Democrats, and anti 99% criminal guilt in Republicans. I wish we could undo all the problems our political system suffers from. I think your websites "money out of politics" goal is the best 1st priority to do just that. Good luck. Do not be dissuaded by those who disagree and attack you. Occupy certainly prefers to stay out of political campaigns but does not turn away Democrats (or republicans) who support our agenda. Thanks for all your hard work.

You are always pointing out they are both the same, and you are always completely wrong!!!

You always ignore who is really in power, who owns the Cons and sabotages the Dems, relentlessly. You always ignore the damage and political reality our collective electoral negligence has caused, incessantly. And you loyally resume your ignorance of how abjectly more atrocious Cons really are. Thus you remain, as always, a covert RepubliCon Zombie, as before. Here to waste our time, diffuse all concerted effective efforts and actions, and mislead the gullible down the unicorn path of irrelevance. Despite the devastating revelations of Con skullduggery and subsequent defeats, just like the rest of the Zombies, covert and overt.

In a political world rife with deliberate treachery, fraud, sabotage, Fox, Cons, suicide bombers and Hillbilly Taliban, you want manners? There are people on this board who think anything but drum-circle or burrito-feed anarchist playdates are a travesty.

We need intelligence, discipline and unity ~ etiquette is an ill-fitting frill, like a ribbon on a Hurt Locker head wound.

Sticks and stones... let the fools reveal themselves.

If you care about our country and our people, we have hard and very mean work to do.

We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. Maybe it is time for us to grow up, take responsibility for our own lives, love our neighbor, and do what little we can every day to make the world a better place.

Well, without reading down the posts that got here first, I agree with you and I have tried to comply with your seven rules. I might have broken one here or there, most likely the one about posting the link. But I have posted a lot of them and the ones I have missed where not to mislead, but more likely laziness on my part blamed on need to go do something else.

I was glad you didn't rule out humor, because it is a tool I may over use but appreciate in others. I would observe that you have lived by your rule set and have brought a barge full of useful facts and another full of thought provoking points of view. Now I am through sucking up and will read the posts below.

Iv'e met Zhou Lang a few times. He wanted to recruit me in the NWO. I visited his group at their meeting location in Shangxiajiu. In the end, I decided to opt out. I didn't agree with some of their plans.

I agree with your list though it's hard to restrain myself when someone misses my point or reads two paragraphs of an idea and says something like "Worst idea ever." I hold off on replying until I've re-read my post, and often think "Hey, this is actually feedback I can use to further my point or adjust my logic."

Did you find though that there was too much talk about guns here recently? It really seemed like a distraction to me, but I realized they (aside from conspiracy seekers, who I appreciate), probably have no where else to express themselves. That can't be taken away from them.

Some people cant write that good. Unfortunately we can't judge a book by it's cover, because I think some of the stupidest people have some of the best solutions. Not only that, if we don't dumb down our language, we are only reaching a fraction of the potential audience.

I guess what I'm saying is, if someone is being a fucker then they should get booted. If someone has a problem expressing himself but has good intentions, isn't using this for personal gain (advertizing, hidden agenda, etc.), or isn't here to undermine the movement, I don't mind. Your list is best practice for sure.

Actually if I did know I would not ask! You are off your mark here if you mean anything besides my all in position because I give my life for this... I am alive and free with the best for all in love...WE

I am not ashamed to say I voted for Obama
[for those who did not know]
but he has not always stood with us.

I believe his recent actions and this speech point to two major changes
that will be very powerful:
1: He is now willing to acknowledge the Rs for what they are -
obstructionist shills for the 1% that cannot be trusted or partnered with
2: Power to the people: he will be calling on - we the people - to pressure congress to support his goals for the 99%

I like your optimism - but have seen nothing so far to make me think that his public words are anything more then lip service. He has gotta show me some works - some real concerted efforts before I will begin to even think it is anything more then lip service.

I do not believe he is "hearing it" vs just co-opting popular word speak. Someone else likely inserted these phrases to make it sound good. It is time for some real "show me". Popular word speak makes for great 10 second news spots, and that is all. Instead of all the divisive issues, let's get the people back to work. Unemployment is still too high, but no one talks about that.

This forum was once a valuable resource for information. Referring someone to it gave them empowerment, inspiration and often the impetus to take action. At the very least, it was an opportunity to gain enough knowledge to confidently discuss issues in ones personal life. Participants were sharing knowledge and ideas, at a rate seldom seem.

Today this forum has little ability to do any of these things. In fact, referring someone here often causes them to become discouraged, and defiant thus, discrediting the person referring others here. This forum has adopted a sort of 'chat room' atmosphere, unbecoming of legitimate or intelligent discourse.

This forum is no longer a necessary outlet for the sharing of the information it was once so rich in. The information has resonated outward. It has spread to the commonplace. People who continue to utilize this outlet for sharing information and ideas, deserve a round of applause for continuing to do so, while the detractors and shills intent upon disrupting that flow of information, while seemingly successful here, are faced with a uncontrollable supply of it elsewhere.

These are my opinions and in no way are intended to be interpreted as anything but.

Yes, I'm in agreement, with the caveat being that we, OWS does not become a branch of a political party. It is not about keeping our 'purity' that concerns me, but rather about headng down a dead-end road. Our value is outside the political system. By being there, we undoubtedly have, and will continue to effect change from within. And I could give a shit who takes credit for any positive developments.

Good quote, and very true..thanks. We are up against a very "negative," corrupt system, but the people who i know well in this movement are "positive", and they are some of the best people that I have ever known in my entire life.