I miss Derek Rose :/ Bulls would be rocking. Not that I like the Bulls, I root for Knicks and Nets, but Bulls are less exciting and it's not fun when a team isn't playing up to their potential. The only teams I really want to see lose are the hype teams like Miami LAL and OKC. I like the humble teams like Spurs Clippers and Bulls.

---------- Post added 2013-01-18 at 09:13 PM ----------

Oh for the record guys, I don't like PJ Carlesimo.

I think more people would like OKC if they didn't have Westbrook on the team.

Btw about All Star Starters...Why do 4 people come from LA in West team, and the 5th is Kevin Durant (obviously pro). East team is 2 people from Boston and 2 people from Miami. And Carmelo Anthony.

OMG Chicago made a comeback because refs rigged it and made it a jump ball instead of a foul + they let Noah do the tipoff vs. Paul Pierce.

I wasn't done on my rant!

OMG OVERTIME that was some sick shit.

As I was saying, New York should have like 4 all star starters and be just as pro as LA. The fans screwed Tyson Chandler and Brook Lopez (although only one would get picked of the two of them) and Deron Williams screwed himself.

Eh I don't like Russell Westbrook but he's an athletic talented player so w.e. I just don't like how hyped up OKC is. Yeah they're good, they have #1 record of course they're a good team, but they just get talked about too much and it makes me want to see them lose. Whereas people like the Spurs don't get talked about and they just keep rolling doing their best.

I think more people would like OKC if they didn't have Westbrook on the team.

I think Perkins is a bigger douche bag than Westbrook is.

That was a great series Hinrich hits that big shot. Bulls are without their TWO best players right now cause Deng got injured. If they win this on the road thats honestly sad on Boston's part they cant beat a team that is decimated with injuries. Reports are Derrick Rose is closer to coming back than first anticipated. He could very well make his return after the All Star Break if all goes well.

As I was saying. All Star West looks stacked lol. Maybe Dwight isn't that good but he's best defensive center West. (I'd take Marc Gasol over him if I didn't think Chris Paul, Kobe, and Kevin Durant are all gonna want ball time.) Blake is exciting but I'd take Tim Duncan over him if they were going for the win.

East is disoriented lol. KG already said he doesn't expect problems with Melo but eh. I don't think East is gonna mesh well. I think Wade and Lebron are gonna wanna do their thing, Rondo and KG are gonna do their style of play, and Melo is gonna be standing around waiting for the ball.

If it was up to me and I was trying to win, I'd do:

Frontcourt:
Lebron
Melo
Tyson <- efficient defensive

Backcourt:
Kyrie Irving
.....

Not sure about the last one. I don't think I'd want Rondo there if Kyrie is gonna be there, don't need two point guards. I guess DWade for the last spot (lol there are no shooting guards in the East).

I also think that'd be super exciting. (Except sort of Tyson. I find KG more exciting if he's gonna instigate trouble, but for play style I'd prefer Tyson.)

I miss Derek Rose :/ Bulls would be rocking. Not that I like the Bulls, I root for Knicks and Nets, but Bulls are less exciting and it's not fun when a team isn't playing up to their potential. The only teams I really want to see lose are the hype teams like Miami LAL and OKC. I like the humble teams like Spurs Clippers and Bulls.

I don't see any great reason to believe Rose is as valuable as he's been made out to be. The Bulls would surely be better with him, but he's not an efficient scorer and the Bulls aren't that much worse without him.

I don't see any great reason to believe Rose is as valuable as he's been made out to be. The Bulls would surely be better with him, but he's not an efficient scorer and the Bulls aren't that much worse without him.

The only reason people consider him "valuable", and don't get me wrong he is a very good player, is because he was gifted the MVP in the year no one wanted to give it to LeBron. That is pretty much what is going to happen again this year with Durant.

I don't see any great reason to believe Rose is as valuable as he's been made out to be. The Bulls would surely be better with him, but he's not an efficient scorer and the Bulls aren't that much worse without him.

Lol so hold on a second. You are of the belief that the Bulls wouldve done the same last year in the postseason had Derrick Rose been healthy? That the #1 seed who BLEW OUT the 76ers the game he played mind you wouldve stilled lost that series with him around? Thats so laughably wrong I dont know what to say. They are 100x worse without him he is the only player that can effectively create his own shot and create for others, last year essentially proved that more than anything. Best team with goes to loses to crappy team without.

Originally Posted by conscript

The only reason people consider him "valuable", and don't get me wrong he is a very good player, is because he was gifted the MVP in the year no one wanted to give it to LeBron. That is pretty much what is going to happen again this year with Durant.

Too bad Durant deserves it. Once again hes doing more (meaning more wins) with less than Lebron is. And this is in a season people criticized OKC for trading away the great James Harden while Miami has all their main pieces still. Durant is also on pace to join the 50-40-90 club which is very exclusive in and of itself, while also potentially being the 2nd highest scoring member of it in all time (only Larry Bird averaged slightly more with 29.3 PPG).

About D Rose: he's the truth. That Chicago team needs him. I don't believe he had a better year than LeBron the year that he won the MVP, but he did carry a team that would have been mediocre without him to a number 1 seed. I still think LeBron should have won the MVP because he played better, but you can't deny what D Rose means to his team.

Too bad Durant deserves it. Once again hes doing more (meaning more wins) with less than Lebron is. And this is in a season people criticized OKC for trading away the great James Harden while Miami has all their main pieces still. Durant is also on pace to join the 50-40-90 club which is very exclusive in and of itself, while also potentially being the 2nd highest scoring member of it in all time (only Larry Bird averaged slightly more with 29.3 PPG).

I agree that Durant is ahead in the MVP race. I don't want to put too much emphasis on 50/40/90 because one amazing accomplishment should not guarantee you the MVP, but Durant's numbers are all-around better than LeBron's.

But I wouldn't say that LeBron has more help than Durant. If you remove LeBron and Durant from their teams, OKC would be way better than the Heat. LeBron is the Heat, just like D Rose is the Bulls. KD is more like the perfect compliment to his team. (And don't give me that big 3 argument. D Wade is not the D Wade he was last year, and Bosh's numbers have been on a steady decline the last few years).

I agree that Durant is ahead in the MVP race. I don't want to put too much emphasis on 50/40/90 because one amazing accomplishment should not guarantee you the MVP, but Durant's numbers are all-around better than LeBron's.

But I wouldn't say that LeBron has more help than Durant. If you remove LeBron and Durant from their teams, OKC would be way better than the Heat. LeBron is the Heat, just like D Rose is the Bulls. KD is more like the perfect compliment to his team. (And don't give me that big 3 argument. D Wade is not the D Wade he was last year, and Bosh's numbers have been on a steady decline the last few years).

I can respect where you are coming from but I would disagree and say Miami's team is better than OKC's if you minus both Durant/Lebron. Wade and Bosh are still 2 superstars capable of taking over games, yes Bosh doesnt as often anymore because of where he plays but we know he can, hes still highly effecient offensively as well as solid in other areas. For OKC you could only really say that same argument about Westbrook and nobody else, and I dont know many people that would take Westbrook over Wade.

Now lets go through the rest of the team since I personally think its clear Wade/Bosh > Westbrook/Ibaka. You got Thabo and Perkins as your other starters against Chalmers and Haslem. I would say thats close yet once again I would take Miami's team. Thabo is a roleplayer at best and Perkins is an overrated piece of shit. Chalmers is still a serviceable PG with playmaking ability and Haslem can play well in short stretches. For the bench OKC has Kevin Martin who is clearly better than Miami's best bench guy. But Miami has Ray Allen, Shane Battier, and Norris Cole to choose from. While OKC its mostly Martin or bust. Collison is only a hustle player, and everybody else averages 3 points or less and doesnt offer much else in other areas.

Those guys only do well because LeBron sets them up for success. If Wade was the #1 guy on the Heat, they would have massive ups and downs on offense, and the defense would be nonexistent. OKC would still have a defense without KD.

Now lets go through the rest of the team since I personally think its clear Wade/Bosh > Westbrook/Ibaka.

In what universe? It certainly isn't the real one. Westbrook averages more point, rebounds, and assists than Wade and plays better defense (103 rtg for Russ 105 for Wade). Ibaka averages fewer points than Bosh but more rebounds and is one of the best defenders in the league. If Ibaka had a closer usage rate to Bosh (he is 5% lower ) his numbers would blow Bosh's away. Westblaka has 10.4 win shares. Wosh has 9. There isn't a metric or even an opinion in the world to justify Wosh being better than Westblaka. It simply isn't true anymore. Bosh and Wade are declining. Badly. Wade has his worst per 36 point total outside of his rookie year, a pathetic 18.8. His defensive stats are down. His rebounding is down. As a duo, they aren't even comparable to Westblaka.

I lied there is one and only one argument to make. Wosh>Westblaka because Russ doesn't know his place and uses too many possessions while Wade has clearly learned where he sits in the Miami food chain.

---------- Post added 2013-01-19 at 05:55 PM ----------

Oh also, new thread rule. Everytime Westbrook and Ibaka are mentioned in the same point they must be referred to as Westblaka.

Russell Westbrook + Ibaka is better than Wade + Bosh for sure, they're younger and more athletic and do their jobs better (if you count Westbrook as a secondary scorer/distributor rather than a pure PG).

But I think the rest of Miami's bench is better supporting cast than OKC bench. I also think if you removed Lebron and Durant, Wade and Bosh would step up and Heat would be doing similarly as well as they are now, and OKC would suck because Russell Westbrook trying to take more shots than Kobe every night.

But I don't really think Durant should be MVP over Melo since Melo carries Knicks harder than Lebron and Durant do for Heat/Thunder. If I was giving out MVP awards, I'd do Melo > CP3 > Durant > Lebron, although the better players goes in reverse. Oh btw Durant moved into 2nd place as leading scorer (over Melo) because of his 52 last night in OT vs. Dallas.

And yeah, DRose means a lot for Bulls. Bulls would be probably be #1 seed right now if they had Rose this season (I think Heat would beat them in playoffs though). It's stupid to think otherwise lol. Rose was a pretty exciting player to watch and probably 2nd best pointguard in league after CP3.

Russell Westbrook + Ibaka is better than Wade + Bosh for sure, they're younger and more athletic and do their jobs better (if you count Westbrook as a secondary scorer/distributor rather than a pure PG).

But I think the rest of Miami's bench is better supporting cast than OKC bench. I also think if you removed Lebron and Durant, Wade and Bosh would step up and Heat would be doing similarly as well as they are now, and OKC would suck because Russell Westbrook trying to take more shots than Kobe every night.

But I don't really think Durant should be MVP over Melo since Melo carries Knicks harder than Lebron and Durant do for Heat/Thunder. If I was giving out MVP awards, I'd do Melo > CP3 > Durant > Lebron, although the better players goes in reverse. Oh btw Durant moved into 2nd place as leading scorer (over Melo) because of his 52 last night in OT vs. Dallas.

And yeah, DRose means a lot for Bulls. Bulls would be probably be #1 seed right now if they had Rose this season (I think Heat would beat them in playoffs though). It's stupid to think otherwise lol. Rose was a pretty exciting player to watch and probably 2nd best pointguard in league after CP3.

Rose is a more dominate player but people would rather play with CP3 I think because he makes others better. If I had a team like Miami's thou I would want Rondo though. IDK Parker is underrated in those PG's last year nobody would have been upset if he won the MVP he's numbers were great and he was carrying the Spurs for most of they're wins last year. Out of the all point guards I don't think anybody is better in the paint hell there isn't many centers better in the paint then Tony P.

Rose is a more dominate player but people would rather play with CP3 I think because he makes others better. If I had a team like Miami's thou I would want Rondo though. IDK Parker is underrated in those PG's last year nobody would have been upset if he won the MVP he's numbers were great and he was carrying the Spurs for most of they're wins last year. Out of the all point guards I don't think anybody is better in the paint hell there isn't many centers better in the paint then Tony P.

But I think the rest of Miami's bench is better supporting cast than OKC bench. I also think if you removed Lebron and Durant, Wade and Bosh would step up and Heat would be doing similarly as well as they are now, and OKC would suck because Russell Westbrook trying to take more shots than Kobe every night.

I agree with that and I think with that statement it kindve contradicts your other one since to me that means Wade and Bosh are better. We have seen these guys carry teams, especially Wade. Ibaka cant, hes a role player, a good one but still a role player and Westbrook has bad shot selection that holds him back into being a legit superstar. You know he actually takes more shots than Durant? That shouldnt happen. Wade/Bosh both shooting over 50% from field, incredibly effecient and would raise that scoring if needed with Lebron not around. Miami would still be a very good and dangerous team.

3rd OT game in a row for Bulls, sadly didnt pull this one out. Nate once again showed us good getting us back in the game and his bad by missing tons of shots and making stupid plays. Its like a curse for Bulls backup PGs to want to be the star of the show making dumb plays. Watson, Pargo, and Lucas all did the same.

So I was looking at stats and noticed that Kevin Love was shooting 35% from the field this season. Like holy shit, I actually thought he was playing well coming back from his injury until I saw that. I know he got re-injured later but man thats a really pathetic number for a big man, especially one as talented as him. I know some of it is due to injury since Dirk is still playing poorly as well coming back from his, needs more time to get back into the groove.

So I was looking at stats and noticed that Kevin Love was shooting 35% from the field this season. Like holy shit, I actually thought he was playing well coming back from his injury until I saw that. I know he got re-injured later but man thats a really pathetic number for a big man, especially one as talented as him. I know some of it is due to injury since Dirk is still playing poorly as well coming back from his, needs more time to get back into the groove.

Ya when he came back he was awful from range and even not himself around the rim. He probably came back too soon without working on getting his shot back and then he broke it again although that is probably less time related.