January 23, 2008

Here's Rush Limbaugh talking about the way Hillary Clinton was sitting in her chair at the debate. (Subscriber link.) (Yes, I subscribe to the Rush Limbaugh website so I can keep track of these things for you.)

There was also -- I'm not going to say -- never mind, I'm not going to say it because all I'm going to do is make women mad, don't want to do that, making women mad is going to send -- all right, I'm going to say it, but I'm going to stop doing this in the future. After the first part of the debate, standing up there at those podiums and then they took a commercial break, and Blitzer came back and they were all sitting in chairs. I'm going to pay for this. See, this is the kind of thing that you're not supposed to say, that when you say this, all it does is drive people to Hillary, women especially. (sigh) But see, I'm not going to tease you, it's really unfair to say I'm going to say something and then not say it. So I'm going to say it now. She was the only one sitting there who could not cross her legs.

"That's just horrible, Mr. Limbaugh! I can't believe you said that. That's just horrible. Why do you even notice things like that, Mr. Limbaugh? I can't believe you!"

Back to the regular voice:

It's very simple, ladies and gentlemen. I'm a leg man. I'm jealous. I can't do it either. I can't cross my legs sitting in a chair like that. I'm jealous of people who can and I'm jealous of other people who don't, and it makes me feel better about myself, okay? I can't do it, either.

2. Women — at least women of a certain age — have been taught as a matter of etiquette to cross their legs at the ankles when they sit, and that is exactly what Hillary Clinton was doing at the debate.

I noticed the leg positions at the debate myself, because each of the 3 candidates were sitting differently:

1. Hillary had her legs exactly the way any good image consultant would advise any woman to sit. (It has nothing to do with chubbiness.)

2. Barack Obama — at the point when I noticed — had his legs crossed with the left ankle on the right knee, a position that would look insane if taken by a woman in any remotely serious situation, even if she is wearing pants. It's very casual. Arguably, it was rude for Obama to have his foot way up there with the sole aimed at Hillary.

3. John Edwards was sitting with his legs apart and feet planted on the floor — what you might call a "wide stance." This too would look awful on a woman, even if she were wearing pants. It too seems casual, and many men look crude in that position, which in some situations — such as on a subway car — is inconsiderate because it hogs extra space.

IN THE COMMENTS: People are saying it's not about fat at all. It's about testicles. Why did he say "I'm jealous of people who can" cross their legs then? But it is funnier that way.

ADDED: And here I am, the one with the reputation for being the first one to notice when the subject is genitalia. Anyway, as the Althouse Blog Historian Ruth Anne Adams points out in the comments, the photographic record is clear that females my age were taught to cross our legs at the ankles:

I'm the one in the white eyelet lace skirt following all the rules. (Enlarge.)

I have to disagree with Maxine's linked post here . . . ankle-to-knee is not appropriate for a man in a formal setting. And if you're too fat to cross your legs properly, don't cross them at all. That's what I was taught when I was growing up.

But then, I bow to my ancestors and I hold my pinky out when I sip tea so perhaps the world has just passed me by. The New Soviet Man has no time for such arcane punctilio.

Still, I think I'm right. And Obama, who went to a posh prep school and a posh university and an ultra-posh law school almost certainly knows better. Or perhaps, then again, the rich are different from you and me. As are the exquisitely posh.

I don't think Rush was saying that Hillary's fat. I think he was pointing out that she couldn't cross her legs casually, because she's a woman, and there's too much baggage associated with women crossing their legs at the knee. In some - many - cases, it's associated with flirting and being sexy, and that would be inappropriate.

I didn't see the debate but if Obama really was sitting as Ann described, I would've found that very rude, as she says -- too casual for the setting.

In the photo Simon posted, Hillary and Nancy Reagan both have their legs crossed at the knee, and the effect is that they're flashing a lot of skin. Rosalynn Carter has her legs crossed at the ankle; Barbara Bush has her feet tucked under slightly in the same way as Rosalynn, but her legs aren't crossed. IMO Rosalynn and Barbara look more respectful of the proceedings they're witnessing.

In all honesty (I grew up in New England), the first place I ever heard about "good manners dictate that women cross their feet at the ankles" was in The Princess Diaries when Julie Andrews was schooling Ann Hathaway. It made sense to me then, and makes sense to me now. If you're wearing anything other than trousers or a full-length skirt, crossing your legs is going to draw attention to your legs, and sometimes that's not what you want to do.

Limbaugh loathes himself some Hillary. The specific complaint is beside the point. It's what happens when you dislike someone, anyone, and you begin to despise everything about them: their hair, their walk, the way the click their teeth on a fork, how they always seem to be hovering nearby.And leg crossing, knee or ankle. Doesn't matter; each way is wrong because they're doing it.

Obama wagging the sole of his shoe at Hillary could suggest that he is a closet Muslim. There's something about the shoe/foot being an instrument of insult in many Islamic cultures. Am I the only one who remembers the hapless Iraqis pounding Saddam's toppled statue with their shoes? Rush is slipping to have missed the obvious connection here....

Being about the same age as Hillary...I was taught that the proper/formal way of sitting for a "lady" was to cross the ankles, tuck your feet a bit under the chair and sit slightly ajar (not straight on) in the chair in order to avoid the ability for someone to look right up your skirt. Skirts were much shorter then too. :-) Even when wearing pants, that position was the prefered way to sit in a formal situation.

Hillary had her legs exactly the way any good image consultant would advise any woman to sit.

Which meant we were not able to get a Basic Instinct shot.

Trooper York is still inconsolable.

Arguably, it was rude for Obama to have his foot way up there with the sole aimed at Hillary.

Well in Arab culture yes. I don't think Americans give a hoot one way or another.

John Edwards was sitting with his legs apart and feet planted on the floor — what you might call a "wide stance." This too would look awful on a woman, even if she were wearing pants. It too seems casual, and many men look crude in that position,

Goesh beat me to the Muslim shoe insult. Perhaps he had "Eat Me!" written on the sole.

At the ballroom dances/classes I was sent to in middle school in the 70's, the girls were instructed to cross their ankles when sitting. I can't remember any hats and white gloves, which might have helped with the cooties.

Maxine, the female instructor had great legs, especially for a petite woman, which she showed off with high heeled sandals, miniskirts, and a year-round tan without hose. The Dowagers sat in a corner and smoked.

Hot women can do anything that they want with their legs. When Christie Brinkley is with Chuck Norris and they are selling their workout contraption, Christie's legs are this way, and then that way, open, up, down, side-to-side, and all I want to do is give her my wallet. What a political duo they would make.

Dax nailed it. Ann, in all of her her longish diatribe, totally MISSED IT.

Maybe it's because she's the only one with b*lls!

That's exactly what Limbaugh was saying. It's a recurring theme on Rush's show with respect to Hillary. He was saying that Hillary's testicles are so big that she can't cross her legs. And the deal sealer, the thing that proves it, is when Rush was said, hey, he can't cross his legs either.

If you're going to try to read the stitches on the fastball, Ann, you better learn how first (another Rushism).

I think though that many here are missing part of the reality here. Apparently, Hillary! had some physical complications or whatever when her daughter was born that resulted in large or bloated legs. That is apparently one reason that she wears pants most of the time, in order to hide this. In her case, it is not a result of being overweight, as it probably is with Rush, but rather a medical condition. There is no reason to believe that this has any health affects for her, but rather it just makes her legs less sightly.

I could be mistaken here, but have heard this multiple times over the last 15 years.

Hillary can't cross her legs because of testicular tissue. Fine.What I want to know is, does she have the balls to step out on Bill the way he had the balls to step out on her. It's 2008, Hillary -- time for a woman to have it all.

Sniggering misogynicists? Yes but we are organized and represented by a union- Local 6 & seven-eighths of the Internalional Union of Sniggering Misogynicists..can we give you an estimate on that hysterectomy you have been putting off?

Go ahead. Sniggering misogynists are exactly what will get Hillary elected President. If I can paraphrase a recent article by Kathleen Parker (who I rarely agree with but occasionally peruse), there is nothing that will get women, who will fight to the death over a man, to rush to the aid of a fellow woman en masse than men behaving badly.

Anne:

You clearly outdressed your kindergarten class. Not only did you have a nicer skirt, but I also noticed that overall you are better dressed. No old tennis shoes for class photo day, not for you!

Now I have a question. Is it an illusion, or was the building constructed with the top higher than the bottom? Some of that old architecture is pretty odd by today's standards. Do you have a picture of the building from the outside?

Irony is totally beyond them. Plus, they project their own deficiencies onto others.

Do you have that phrase queued up or do you cut and paste it whenever you post?

Seriously, it's completely meaningless, like saying "How are you" or "take care" , like an astrology reading, or a congressional budget proposal. It looks all smart and stuff, but beneath the gloss is, well, nothing.

It's completely meaningless, like saying "How are you" or "take care" , like an astrology reading, or a congressional budget proposal. It looks all smart and stuff, but beneath the gloss is, well, nothing.

At last! The perfect description of the typical Althouse blogpost and the subsequent comments of her cultists.

Oh i looked her up. She is shaking hands with veterans and not running for president. Admirable.

I read in the paper one of four homeless people in America is a veteran. I can understand this. After some of the horrors of strife and life, what we fight over, you find a truth of wondering what pain and what living is about, about owning anything or having possessions. Sorry to get all John Lennon on people. It creeps up on me at inopportune times..

It's not just religion that wars breakout. It's money and food and yes, Helen, even women.

At last! The perfect anti-althousian bot-post, both vapid and creepy, provoking the retort why are you still here, the, but which is ultimately pointless as the respondent is, well, let's just say, subtherapeutic.

My cousins have lived in Shipley Heights outside Wilmington since 1961, but they're a bit younger than you (oldest born 1958). My late uncle was president of the school board during their busing battles.

Hillary! does remind one of an aging, malevolent chipmunk. Perhaps her most appropriate posture would be squatting on haunches, lips puckered, teeth bared, chubby cheeks (take your pick) all aquiver. You get the picture now, don't you? Sweet dreams.

I have eras'd the first Communication of the Letter which follows, for the Purpose of correcting several small Mistakes and adding a Line or two; I apologise if any Confusion arises, as this Epistle now appers out of its proper Order.

I should say that I use Mr. Limbaugh with no little Asperity, not because I am an Enemy to his suppos'd Politicks; for he pretends to be a True-Blue Tory, and I, while having practiced a moderate Whiggery in my Day, would deny no Man his Opinions or his Vote. My low Regard of Mr. Limbaugh stems from his Gluttony, his Debauchery, & his Hypocrisy. If any Man would preach Political Morality and teach us how to live, let him be worthy. I recall from my Day, many a Man who would have hid his Vice with his Party. That such things may have been said equally of Whigs as Tories, from my Time down to This, is a melancholy Observation on the persistence, nay, immutability, of Vanity & Folly.

If I may offer one further Thought, which is, that the renew'd Presence of a Lunatick or two among the Groundlings of this Theatre has giv'n me Encouragement that I may soon resume my former Occupation as Critick of Madmen. My Years trapp'd in Bedlam have well prepar'd me for such an Office; the Efforts of Professor Althouse to ensure Decorum in this Place have meant that, for several Months, my Talents have been but little used. I now relish the Prospect of placing them again at her Disposal.

Sir Archy

* * * * * * * *Here follows the Letter to Professor Althouse:

Madam,

As the Ghost of one who, with your Pardon, would style himself a Gentleman, dead these 250 years and more, I have heard many an Orator upon many a Subject, but none, perhaps, so grotesque as Mr. Limbaugh. Mr. Limbaugh seems to have said that he wish'd Mrs. Clinton to have cross'd her Legs like a Sailor at his Marlinspike upon the Deck, or a Cavalry Officer taking his ease in an Inn; and further that She were too fat to do it, & that he were by Nature too well-endow'd in his Male Parts to do it.

Mr. Limbaugh thus makes an obscene jest, unworthy of any but a drunk Sailor or Sub-Altern taking Whiskey with his Fellows, and hardly the fit Subject of Speculation by a rational Audience at this otherwise exemplary Theatre of Topicks (as I call it.)

That Mrs. Clinton behav'd with perfect Decorum as befitting her Sex can hardly be denied. Female Cloathing of the Present Age displays the feminine Form to its greatest Disadvantage, and, moreover, unnecessarily restricts the wholesome Movement of the Limbs. It has never become members of the fair Sex to cross their Legs in the Manner suggested by Mr. Limbaugh, whether they wore the well-cut, modest, & rational feminine Dress of my Day, or the ridiculous Garb of this confus'd Age. The One may have hidden the worst of the cross-legg'd Pose, while the Other exposes it to scandalous View; but no Lady of my acquaintance would ever have invited Ridicule by adopting such a Posture, with or without Hoops & Petticoats.

Mr. Limbaugh makes further rhetorical Sallies, consisting of his usual bomphiologick Hyperbole, mix't with an obscene Μετάληψις, making Reference to the barbarick Operation first perform'd upon certain poor Boys of the Pope's Devilish Chapel, and lately used to produce the Capons of the Opera. Mr. Limbaugh may have exceeded himself here, for 'tis widely known that the likes of Farinelli or Nicolini, while depriv'd of their Manhood, have also been depriv'd of their manly Reason, & are grown uncommonly fat in the Bargain. The Readers may judge whether or not Mr. Limbaugh has favoured us in this with his own true Mirror.

Adding that it is no Mark of Dishonour, nor Failure of Learning, for a Gentleman to be ignorant of the Italian Language, if only to have spared Himself the Absurdities of Mynheer Handel's operatick Essays in that Tongue & the Screechings of Signor Nicolini,