The end of democracy

Early 19th century Professor Alexander Tytler described the dilemma of democracy in the following
comments about ancient Athens:

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters
discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the
majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the
result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policies, always followed by a dictatorship.

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have
progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great
courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from
selfishness to complacency, from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, and from
dependency back into bondage."

>> From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates
promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result
that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policies, always
followed by a dictatorship. <<

So, if Professor Alexander Tytler was correct, then we are ...
doomed!

But, what if I get me another Professor (one with a PhD and the
whole shooting match) who says that Professor Alexander Tytler was an
ass and was blowing smoke out his nose?

Maybe if I got two Professors to say Professor Alexander Tytler was an
ass? Or better, yet, what if I get me one Professor with two
Phds to say he was an ass?

Have been hunting for that,could not remember the name of the dude that
wrote it.

"The spirit of 1776 is not dead. It has only been slumbering. The body
of the American people is substantially republican. But their virtuous
feelings have been played on by some fact with more fiction; they have
been the dupes of artful maneuvers, and made for a moment to be willing
instruments in forging chains for themselves. But times and truth
dissipated the delusion, and opened their eyes." --Thomas Jefferson to
Thomas Lomax, 1799. ME 10:123

>> Reread the original post. The guy ain't stupid and you're not
either. Tell me why I'm not being tempted (over 55 here) by being
offered my own money in return for a vote? <<

You are not tempted because you understand where your own best
interest lies. And that is precisely the reason why Professor T is
wrong. Democracy works because you can trust people to
understand their own best interest.

My big objection to the quote is that it pretends to have discovered
some grand rule of politics that is absolute. The good prof comes
across like a pompous ass. His statement is full of "always" and
"never" and "must".

I have studied the Athenian democracy, too. At least as closely as
Professor T. I have read all the source material, mostly in
translation, but bits of it in the original Attic Greek. That includes
reading the orators like Lysias, Demosthenes, Antiphon and Aeschines.
The historians Thuycidides and Herodotus. The playwrights, the
philosophers. I've read Xenophon's complete corpus. I've read the
epitomes from later antiquity, like Plutarch or Diogenes Laertius.

Professor T has nothing on me when it comes to this subject. He is
wrong. And he is a pompous ass. Believe him if you please. He is only
making assertions with the utmost tone of authority. He rings like a
cracked bell to me.

Wouldn't suggest that Prof T is likeable but that's not the point. The
easy steering of a population by appealing to its greed is most
dangerous in a time of plenty. We're in that time now. Fat cats all,
everybody happy. Demands on the purse go skyward because the purse is
so full...for now. Entitlements, "rights" & just plain greed become
enduring parts of the social fabric. When they become law they endure
through the bottom of the sinewave as well as the top and the question
is whether my and your "best interests" can effectively steer a
democracy precisely enough to avoid collapse. T doesn't think so and
neither do I.

Don't get me wrong,books are very wonderful things but it only takes
common sense to figure out that that a majority cannot feed at the
public trough at the expense and labor of the minority for very long
without one of two things happening,(1)the minority gets fed up with it
and says fuck off,thus forcing the PTB to become even more aggressive
to pacify and appease those that substain them or(2) the system
collapses under the weight of its great expecations but meager
apportions.

Jefferson was aware of this model and was involved personally in its
inception and earlier progress but was concerned at its likely
inevitability and searched and warned for ways to avert the dismantling
of what many had died for and to them that which was eternally sacred.

Brian,

You will have to be more concise other than listing the books you have
or have read for me to re-assess what to me is painfully obvious.
Philosophy is a great thing too but it will not save us from those that
aspire to achieve darker deeds.