This is a short excerpt from Ken Rosenthal's column, also posted on MLBTR

The M's and Yankees briefly explored a Washburn-for-Hideki Matsui exchange earlier in the offseason, but the discussions never progressed because Matsui at $13 million is even more expensive than Washburn at $10.35 million this season.

The Twins had interest in Washburn last season and are looking to move outfielder Delmon Young.

We have learned that the braves are gung-ho on getting not only a OF bat, but a RIGHT HANDED bat. They are looking at Swisher as their best option, which further speaks to that.....but come on, people talk about upside with Swisher, and how he will bounce back from last year. I would take Delmon Young over any of the guys we are linked to (Swish, Abreu, Dunn) in a second....and the Twins are a much better trade partner than the Yankees. They would probably be open to trading for guys like Morton of Jo-Jo or B.Jones or Prado and a combination of prospects. I don't know about you guys, but I think FW needs to explore this....could you imagine the youth movement we would have the outfield??? Look real good for the future.

hawksd911

01-31-2009, 12:07 PM

i like it.

laxman1017

01-31-2009, 12:44 PM

BTW, he made 1.45 Million last year...not sure what he would make in 09, but no question his contract fits, and ACTUALLY frees up the money to sign both Glavine and Ohman, which is what FW wants to do.

yea that is interesting. i wanted to trade for young when the peavy deal was breaking down. If we could somehow trade for him, then we could have have the necessary funds to at least resign ohman and give andruw a contract. I like this. Hopefully frank will like it too.

Slash

01-31-2009, 02:07 PM

There is a reason why teams are willing to keep moving Delmon Young around. And if teams are willing to keep moving cheap and incredibly gifted outfielders off their rosters, then stay away.

Coach100

01-31-2009, 02:22 PM

Don't the Braves have a slew of young, talent prospects in the OF already?

Now, Young is cheap and good and will probably get better. He may be worth some pieces to put in the OF for a few years. He does fill LF with a RH bat. But he doesn't get the Braves a CF, doesn't get the Braves a clean-up hitter, and he brings baggage. Also, when Heyward comes up and the Braves have Heyward, Schafer, Gorkys, and Frenchy and then Young on top of that......Sounds good for trading, but it isn't always that easy.

I agree with Slash on some levels that there has to be some reason this guy keeps moving and he does have a checkered past. maybe a dugout like ATL's would be good for him, but maybe it won't matter.

I don't dispute Young is cheap, young, and good. But why would a team be looking to move him (after they traded Garza for him) already with all that considered?

rtgthree

01-31-2009, 02:39 PM

I really wouldn’t look to trade for Young, unless the price really did hit rock-bottom. Young is essentially a carbon copy of Jeff Francoeur. He’s a guy who got all kinds of hype as a prospect because he could knock the cover off the ball, but who got to the majors quickly and never quite learned any sort of plate discipline along the way. We really don’t need two of those guys in our outfield…it’s frustrating enough with just Francoeur. Young has all the talent in the world, but as of now, he looks like a .750 OPS hitter, which just doesn’t cut it in left field (especially when you see that UZR doesn’t think so highly of his defense, either). On top of all that, he’s already reached his arbitration years, so it’s not like he’s a young guy who will be under team control for a long time yet.

Anything can work for the right price, but I’d say this is a definite mine for Frank Wren to avoid.

bravesfan22193

01-31-2009, 02:40 PM

I think it's certainly worth looking into. what would the twins ask for?

howiend

01-31-2009, 10:27 PM

Ideally, the Twins would want a ss or 3b with a lot of potential. Young isn't a bad guy. The Rays traded him because they wanted young pitching (Garza). The Twins felt like they needed more offense and had a surplus of young pitching. The problem is that Gomez and Span really came on and now the Twins have 5 guys for 3 positions (3 ofs and dh). Young doesn't fit the Twins culture as well as the Twins would like HOWEVER the Twins will not give him up for any less than they gave up to get him.

I would like to see the Braves get Young but I don't see it happening. The Braves would have to include Yunel in the trade. If the Braves still had the young ss (Elvis Andrus?) the Twins would probably take him and a young p (morton, jo jo).

CrippledRam

01-31-2009, 10:28 PM

It won't cost nearly that much. Washburn would be a salary dump move. A good pitching spec would get it done IMO

laxman1017

01-31-2009, 10:36 PM

What is the correct call here though??? Abreu is obviously a more accomplished hitter, and Dunn has PROLIFIC power, but Young is a budgetary move with the POTENTIAL to be better than both of them. Let's not forget, he was the NUMBER 1 overall pick. Now that doesn't always pan out, but it does have to speak to his ceiling. I know all about the bat throwing incident, ect., but I don't think that teams are just unloading him for TOwens character issues. I think some long term stability in a place like Atlanta would help this kid turn into the stud everyone knows he can be. And you can't beat the price.

njbravefan

01-31-2009, 11:34 PM

what does Washburn have to do with this thread?

CrippledRam

02-01-2009, 12:11 AM

what does Washburn have to do with this thread?

The Twins had interest in Washburn last season and are looking to move outfielder Delmon Young. But while some sources believe those players could form the foundation of a larger deal, others say that the teams haven't spoken in more than a month.

brandonwarne52

02-01-2009, 06:50 AM

Deal starts with Yunel Escobar, I'd have to believe.

Hence, no deal.

jcphik

02-01-2009, 10:20 AM

Nah. I dont see anything happening. LIke BrandonWarne said, the deal would have to start with Yunel Escobar, and if the Braves didnbt trade him for Peavy, I doubt that they would trade him for Delmon Young

Brave4life

02-01-2009, 11:19 AM

Nah. I dont see anything happening. LIke BrandonWarne said, the deal would have to start with Yunel Escobar, and if the Braves didnbt trade him for Peavy, I doubt that they would trade him for Delmon Young

Just to clarify a few things, the braves did offer escobar to the padres for peavy the deal was centered around him, but they were also demanding we give them our top prospects like tommy hanson. tommy hanson and escobar can get us way more than peavy. Hanson/heyward/mcann/francour/schafer/escobar are the braves future, they should hold on to the studs.

jcphik

02-01-2009, 11:24 AM

Yeah. I know. I dont think they should trade Escobar, he has serious skills...

rtgthree

02-01-2009, 11:27 AM

Braves won't trade Escobar for Delmon Young. Period.

A question for Mr. Warne, though. If the Twins are really looking to offload Young, I'm betting they won't find many takers if the price is equivalent to Yunel Escobar. Will they lower their demands or just be content to keep Young?

jcphik

02-01-2009, 12:11 PM

I think that they would just keep Young, I remember when some people were calling him the next Manny, he has some serious potential.

rtgthree

02-01-2009, 02:23 PM

I think that they would just keep Young, I remember when some people were calling him the next Manny, he has some serious potential.

Yeah, but the Twins obviously know he has serious potential, and yet they are still "looking to trade him," per Ken Rosenthal. If they think he's the next Manny, they wouldn't shop him at all. Just from the language these writers are using, it doesn't sound like the Twins plan to trade him only if they get blown away. It sounds like they are actively shopping him, in which case they'll almost certainly have to settle for less than Yunel Escobar.

More to add to this also, as Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe seems to think that the Twins would like a reliever in return for Young:

Outfielder Delmon Young or out-of-options starters Boof Bonser or Philip Humber could be dangled in trade to obtain a reliever.
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/02/01/captain_caught_no_interest/?page=4

laxman1017

02-01-2009, 02:26 PM

So what are you saying then RTG, are you for or against looking into this trade??? I would say that if we can use a bullpen arm like Boyer and Stockman, and then throw in a combo of prospects in the B.Jones mold it would be worth a look. It all centers on what they would take of course, but there is no question FW should at least touch base to see the asking price, wouldn't you agree????

rtgthree

02-01-2009, 04:01 PM

So what are you saying then RTG, are you for or against looking into this trade??? I would say that if we can use a bullpen arm like Boyer and Stockman, and then throw in a combo of prospects in the B.Jones mold it would be worth a look. It all centers on what they would take of course, but there is no question FW should at least touch base to see the asking price, wouldn't you agree????

I am never against looking into anything. I just think there are better solutions for the outfield than Delmon Young. But he does have talent, and if he comes cheaply and the organization believes in him, I'll go along with it.

I guarantee, however, that there will be no trade of Boyer or Stockman for Young. I'd think Mike Gonzalez or Rafael Soriano or Peter Moylan would have to be involved. I think they should definitely touch base, but I really don't see a deal where the Twins get enough in return but the Braves don't overpay for a guy who isn't a top-drawer solution.

brandonwarne52

02-01-2009, 04:01 PM

They'd keep Young if they didn't find a good return on him.

jmtapia

02-01-2009, 04:53 PM

Ideally, the Twins would want a ss or 3b with a lot of potential. Young isn't a bad guy. The Rays traded him because they wanted young pitching (Garza). The Twins felt like they needed more offense and had a surplus of young pitching. The problem is that Gomez and Span really came on and now the Twins have 5 guys for 3 positions (3 ofs and dh). Young doesn't fit the Twins culture as well as the Twins would like HOWEVER the Twins will not give him up for any less than they gave up to get him.

I would like to see the Braves get Young but I don't see it happening. The Braves would have to include Yunel in the trade. If the Braves still had the young ss (Elvis Andrus?) the Twins would probably take him and a young p (morton, jo jo).

:laugh:... Homerism at its best. Why in the world would the Braves trade a young defensive stud SS in Escobar for a player who hasnt lived up to the hype. Escobar with his defense alone out performed Young's bat and glove in 2008. Young stinks in the OF and his bat will have to come out to bat a .900 OPS for him to just out weight his glove.

No way the Braves give up Escobar for Young. I would go JoJo plus BJ for him... and thats a stretch bc BJ might be able to out perform Young with good defense in its self.

They'd keep Young if they didn't find a good return on him.

Then keep him or shop him to another team.

A_Brave_Pack

02-01-2009, 05:27 PM

Reliever, hmm?

Well the Braves certainly do have a wealth of 'serviceable' relievers that could be included in a trade: Soriano, Campillo, Boyer, Acosta, Stockman, Carlyle, Bennett, not to mention the list of prospect arms.

On the pipe dream level, the Braves could put together a package for both Delmon Young and Francsico Liriano, who would be a very nice lefty starter...

I am sure I am way off (especially since I know Liriano has not been mentioned at all) but it is still before ST, so I can still dream, right?

haha that would be considered significantly more then dreaming. Im not sure why the Twins would want an injury prone reliver making over $6 Mill this upcoming year and a junkballer in Jorge Campillo.

We would have to give up a lot more for Loriano himself.

A_Brave_Pack

02-02-2009, 01:43 AM

^^^I have no doubt about that. Like I said, I was purely dreaming. :)

Hypothetically, would it be worth it to consider a package centered around Yunel or Gorkys for Young/Liriano?

There are still 'viable' options in FA to replace Yunel.

I'm sure that's more of a realistic package, to say the least, something along the lines of Escobar/Boyer/Medlen?

Like I've said before, I'm just dreaming, but I promise I'll quit once everyone reports to ST. haha.

jmtapia

02-02-2009, 02:05 AM

^^^ We could definitely get Loriano with Esco +. However, with Lilli out of the picture and our system not producing any sure fire replacements at our IF positions i dont see the Braves trading away their young controllable SS... A package around Gorkys would be interesting indeed, i wonder what else it would take to get him and/or them...

brandonwarne52

02-02-2009, 05:00 AM

You aren't getting Liriano with anyone short of Heyward and that's just how it is.

jmtapia

02-02-2009, 05:20 AM

You aren't getting Liriano with anyone short of Heyward and that's just how it is.

seeing that your the Twins GM then we could all come together and agree with you... I think its funny how every fan from every team is easy to say Heyward or no one else in any trade scenarios. You could sell me pretty easy if you say Liriano is untouchable or very close to it, after all this whole trade with the Twins wasnt my idea. But to say that the Braves cant get Liriano unless they include Heyward is way to narrow minded.

brandonwarne52

02-02-2009, 05:21 AM

No, it's not. Liriano is a pre-arb ace.

Show me what the last pre-arb ace that was traded brought back in a trade. If it was less than four of a teams top ten prospects, I'll be incredulous.

Liriano in his career:

10 K/9
0.8 HR/9
1.15 WHIP
10.3 baserunners/9

That's legit ace material.

jmtapia

02-02-2009, 05:36 AM

No, it's not. Liriano is a pre-arb ace.

Show me what the last pre-arb ace that was traded brought back in a trade. If it was less than four of a teams top ten prospects, I'll be incredulous.

Liriano in his career:

10 K/9
0.8 HR/9
1.15 WHIP
10.3 baserunners/9

That's legit ace material.

With last years numbers i wouldnt be in a hurry to bring up stats. No one is trying to argue that Liriano isnt a young pitching stud. Moreover, Escobar is much more valuable then a TOP 10 Prospect because, well, he isnt a prospect anymore. He is also a young player whom is pre-ARB and is top tier in terms of defense and has a solid bat. It might take 4 Top 10 prospects to get Liriano but you could bet that if that was the case Heyward wouldnt be any where near that deal nor any other deal. Earlier in the offseason, I could see a deal around Escobar/Gorkys/Locke and some other piece but i think that would be about the highest the Braves would be willing to go.... again this is just my opinion.

It would be crazy to think that the Braves would trade Heyward for anyone that wasnt a TOP 5 player in ALL OF MLB. Even then i would guess that some would rather keep Heyward and see what he develops into. Just like Lefties like Liriano dont grow on trees, neither do 19 year old power specimens like Heyward.

brandonwarne52

02-02-2009, 05:37 AM

Regardless we're (both) grasping at straws in terms of what ifs.

rtgthree

02-02-2009, 10:26 AM

Why are we even having this discussion? Twins won't trade Liriano, Braves won't trade Heyward. Simple, and the Braves don't really have a need for Liriano anyway.

cowboy26

02-02-2009, 10:42 AM

Are you guys serious? We gotta go out and Delmon Young. He is a 5 tool player and he's still pretty young. Just because a guy messes up once, now he's scarred for life!!! Give me a break Atlanta fans. We need hitting bad in the outfield. Frenchy is good but he's too much of free swinger and he's still not disclipined enough to wait on his pitch to hit. I like him but man Jeff wait on your pitch and your a perennial all star. Lets get Young signed!!!

A_Brave_Pack

02-02-2009, 11:26 AM

Why are we even having this discussion? Twins won't trade Liriano, Braves won't trade Heyward. Simple, and the Braves don't really have a need for Liriano anyway.

I'll take full responsiblility for bringing up Liriano. It was my dream to have a young lefty like Liriano in a Braves uniform to round out the rotation:

Lowe
Liriano
Vazquez
Jurjjens
Kawakami

I just figured if the Twins were willing to move one talented young player who they had trouble with, maybe they'd be willing to move another one (I remember Liriano last year questioning why he wasn't being brought back up to the majors). Like I said, I had nothing to base my idea on, I just figured that it is a pretty lull time in the off-season right now, with not a whole lot to talk about outside of Andruw and the OF market.

I'll be the first to admit that not all of my ideas are brilliant, but a package of Yunel + (though I agree we are thin at SS) would at least start the conversation with the Twins...

BravoFan3736

02-02-2009, 12:16 PM

[QUOTE=A_Brave_Pack;8216696]I'll take full responsiblility for bringing up Liriano. It was my dream to have a young lefty like Liriano in a Braves uniform to round out the rotation:

Lowe
Liriano
Vazquez
Jurjjens
Kawakami

We do have a young lefty .....Rohrbough which by all accounts should have a bounce back year from an ankle surgery last fall..In 2007 he was almost unhittable and with a solid performance this year he could have a fast track to the Rotation in 10'/11'. He has a Smoltzies like toughness which he pitched through several games on a his bad ankle before shutting it down to have corrective surgery. I like what this kid brings to table with his make up and his approach to pitching...

He might have our next big "3" in the rotation for years to come!! We will see...

Hanson
Rohrbough
JJ
Locke
Teheran

Tragedy

02-02-2009, 12:44 PM

There is a reason why teams are willing to keep moving Delmon Young around. And if teams are willing to keep moving cheap and incredibly gifted outfielders off their rosters, then stay away.
Well, that's not exactly true.

Anyone would do Matt Garza for Delmon Young. Great young pitching beats great young hitting, so the Rays made a great move.

Now the Twins want to move him. He clearly was not good as they expected in 2008, and they're a cheap team to begin with. I'd prefer to look at this as a "Buy low" type of move. He's going to come cheaper now than in 2 years when his value starts expanding due to his age gearing up towards the "prime" years.

maddiesbraves

02-02-2009, 03:54 PM

I thought that we where just looking for a quick fix. Just something to get us by until the young guns came to the show.:confused:

brandonwarne52

02-02-2009, 03:59 PM

Well, that's not exactly true.

Anyone would do Matt Garza for Delmon Young. Great young pitching beats great young hitting, so the Rays made a great move.

Now the Twins want to move him. He clearly was not good as they expected in 2008, and they're a cheap team to begin with. I'd prefer to look at this as a "Buy low" type of move. He's going to come cheaper now than in 2 years when his value starts expanding due to his age gearing up towards the "prime" years.

The Twins already had great young pitching. For a long time last year the Twins had all 5 starts at or under 4.00 ERA, until Perkins slowed a bit at the end.

What people are forgetting is that Garza wasn't markedly better with Tampa last year than he was with Minnesota the year before. He cut his walks, and allowed a couple fewer baserunners, but his ERA and K/9 were very similar.

Nonetheless, the Twins aren't going to sell low on Young. Remind me how the Twins are 'cheap', again?

Coach100

02-02-2009, 04:29 PM

The Twinds aren;t cheap, the are just a small market team. But the pretty much write the book on how to be a consistantly good small market team.