According to TSN, the Flyers have presented Weber with a 14 year offer sheet, in excess of 100M. Even at 100M, that amounts to 7.14M per season for 14 years on a straight line amortization. A quick look at capgeek confirms that PHI can actually afford this deal without moving anyone.

Yikes. I don't think NSH will match - not because of the 7M, but because of the 14 years. They'll get 4 first round draft picks in return if they don't.

I love that this offer sheet came out just as negotiations on the new CBA are underway, where owners are trying to get rid of just such a contract.

40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)

@valanche

Posted - 07/26/2012 : 19:53:04

quote:Originally posted by Guest4377

Maybe Stamkos should have signed those hypothetical offer sheets, even if he wanted to stay in Tampa.

Here's what Weber had to say after Nashville matched the Flyer's offer sheet, and no one seems to criticizing him for his commitment to the Predators:

"It's a very exciting time for the Predators organization and myself. It's a big step in the right direction. Ownership showed a commitment here in the last week. Now going forward I can focus on the important stuff, getting ready for the season and getting ready to go this year."

I agree with Weber - great commitment on Nashville's part, but what about on his part? Weber appeared fully prepared to leave Nashville and play for the Flyers.

But he was in a no lose situation, especially from a money standpoint. But what about his loyalty to his team, or the Nashville fans?

I gotta admit that I would get the maximum value for my services (to a point), but when you do, you can't claim loyalty and commitment at the same time.

Why can't you? Nashville low balled weber big time last summer and now they claim to be loyal to him and the team to winning. It's a business and each side tries to get what's best for their side in the end. In this case both sides are happy. Weber gets big money over a long term and Nashville keeps the franchise player.

66 is > than 99

Guest4377

Posted - 07/26/2012 : 19:07:56 Maybe Stamkos should have signed those hypothetical offer sheets, even if he wanted to stay in Tampa.

Here's what Weber had to say after Nashville matched the Flyer's offer sheet, and no one seems to criticizing him for his commitment to the Predators:

"It's a very exciting time for the Predators organization and myself. It's a big step in the right direction. Ownership showed a commitment here in the last week. Now going forward I can focus on the important stuff, getting ready for the season and getting ready to go this year."

I agree with Weber - great commitment on Nashville's part, but what about on his part? Weber appeared fully prepared to leave Nashville and play for the Flyers.

But he was in a no lose situation, especially from a money standpoint. But what about his loyalty to his team, or the Nashville fans?

I gotta admit that I would get the maximum value for my services (to a point), but when you do, you can't claim loyalty and commitment at the same time.

nuxfan

Posted - 07/25/2012 : 11:13:54

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

If a number of teams sent offer sheets to Tampa for Stamkos, one would assume that Stamkos knew about the offers. (A team would not send an offer unless they had discussions with the player first.) And if so, why would Stamkos not accept such an offer, which assumingly be for more that he got from Tampa? ($37.5 million over five years.)

Stamkos would certainly know of all offer sheets, however players are under no obligation to sing them or accept them. Perhaps he was comfortable that TB was going to offer and he wanted to stay.

When a player accepts an offer sheet to leave, it's pretty clear that they have one foot out the door, for any number of reasons. If you sign it, you have to be prepared to live up to it if you current team does not match. It's possible that stamkos was not willing to do that

Guest4178

Posted - 07/25/2012 : 10:02:07 Thanks. I enjoyed the exchange of opinions, and yes, I am overdue to sign up which I will do shortly. (I'm picky about avatars though – I don't like the ones available. Who do I contact about getting my own custom avatar? I have a logo.)

One last point on the discussion though. You may be right that we don't hear about all of the offer sheets, but I'm in the corner that believes most teams stay away from sending offer sheets to big name RFAs. (For the reasons explained earlier, that they almost always get matched and/or that they don't want to have the same thing happen to them when their valuable RFAs are on the market.)

If a number of teams sent offer sheets to Tampa for Stamkos, one would assume that Stamkos knew about the offers. (A team would not send an offer unless they had discussions with the player first.) And if so, why would Stamkos not accept such an offer, which assumingly be for more that he got from Tampa? ($37.5 million over five years.)

Getting back to the topic at hand (Weber), it doesn't hurt him at all to let teams know that he is available, which drives his market value up, and gives him the option to stay with his current team, or a team of his choosing. He's definitely in the driver's seat!

Beans15

Posted - 07/25/2012 : 09:37:59 Very good and fair points guest. You should sign up and put your name behind these points!!

A couple of things.

Firstly, I don't think Stamkos is going to tank and yes, I too would have given up 4-1st rounders for Ovechkin 3 seasons ago. My point is that player do slip. It's a risk.

Secondly, I make no illusions that late 1st round picks are the bomb. But they are very likely to be at least every day NHL players. Some of them turn out to be all stars, and some turn out to be nothing. But for the most part, they are every day NHLers.

Finally, I think it's a little short sighted to say there is a lack of offers to group 1 RFA's. You don't know that. None of us do. Nothing is ever reported on a offer sheet that is not signed. There could be 10-15 of these a year for all we know. The only time they are discussed is once they are signed. Stamkos might have had 29 offer sheets for all we know.

I personally think it happens more than we know but rarely does the player sign. But that's just my insignificant opinion.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Guest4178

Posted - 07/25/2012 : 08:42:45 To your points Beans.

And as a preface, please note that I would only recommend that an already good team (like the Flyers) would benefit in making an offer sheet to a highly valuable RFA, a player considered as one of the top 10 players in the game, a leader in the game, and one who has not yet peaked.

1. I would not currently give up four 1st round picks for Ovechkin based on the above criteria, but I admit that I would have done so 2-3 seasons ago. Stamkos is not Ovechkin though, and I disagree with you about Stamkos' future promise. He certainly has way more promise than 4 future unknowns. (More on that later.)

2. I don't disagree that the player has to agree to the offer sheet, but still, that doesn't fully explain the lack of offers made to Group 1 RFA's.

3. You have hand-picked a number of very good players taken between 20-30th in a 10-year period, but in Philadelphia's situation, it would probably relate to a pick between 24-30, which eliminates a lot of the top players in your group. The Flyers finished in 6th place overall (without Pronger), so by adding Weber, I think it would be reasonable to suggest they would probably finish in the top 8 for the next four seasons.

Secondly, try your experiment a different way. (And more accurate way.) Take the 23rd-30th selections from the same time period (80 players) and throw their names in a hat. Now select four players. You are most likely to get 1 unknown, 1 guy with a few NHL games, perhaps a 4th liner, and MAYBE a very good player. But you are not likely to get a Stamkos.

4. I don't dispute the points that a team would benefit by having 2 first round picks for four years in a row, but then why do teams always (with one exception) match the offer sheets? I agree with Alex as it relates to Nashville, that it would jeopardize the franchise.

Teams can't always afford to wait for the rebuild (Oilers are fortunate with their fan base), so draft picks down the road are not the best option for teams who want to win (or at least compete) now.

Interesting that people think these unknown future draft picks will be so valuable. Perhaps they believe that a first round draft pick might turn into a first overall pick, where you can get a player like...Stamkos? I bet you could have found a number of NHL teams willing to trade their next four year's first round draft picks to get Stamkos even before he played one game in the NHL. Especially if they were a team in contention, and they knew those draft picks would be late round picks, for which you would have to be very very lucky to find a Stamkos.

I have to say I am a bit surprised. I know it was already the popular analyst's choice, that Nashville would match, but myself, I thought after 2 days of nothing, that . . . I thought he was gone.

This have-not team, the best on the league (in terms of performance as a have-not, overall) kept their best/second best player (they do have Rinne) and they are clearly better for it. But if Weber really is happy there, and if he really did want to send a message to them that he wants to win and be on a top contender . . . how in the world will Nashville be able to afford getting any othe top talent on this team after this massive deal?

To me, it just guarantees more of the same for Nashville - a second tier contender. A good team, but always perhaps missing that piece or two.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 22:33:01

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

4. The missing piece is not only the team losing the player gaining 4-1st round picks but they also have their own picks. Give any NHL GM at least 2 first round picks for the next 4 years and I will show you a team that will be a playoff contender.

Interesting point, but keep in mind, the Preds were already a playoff contender, one who many picked to go all the way to the final! Yes, the loss of Suter is huge, but it's not going to cripple the team to the point of not being a "playoff contender". I don't think Nashville could have survived awaiting their GM to draft AND develop one or two of these 8 or so draft picks to become that playoff contender again.

I believe that even with the loss of Suter, having Weber and Rinne still there is enough to keep that defensive team strong enough to contend. Also, they have some young guys in Blum, Ellis and Josi who will only get stronger over the next few years.

I don't know where the money is coming from, but it absolutely had to be found and they had to match! Regardless, you have to be happy for the Preds fanbase as this really could have crippled that franchise.

Beans15

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 18:26:53 Nashville resigning does surprise me a little based on nothing more than the money. That is a huge cash outlay for a team that is not known to be a 'have' team. It doesn't surprise me that it took so long and signing the best defensemen in the NHL.

I think Weber was in a win/win situation. If he really wanted to leave Nashville he would have signed a one year deal to get to UFA status next summer. He was pretty open about loving Nashville up until this summer so it's not like he hates it there. But he does want to win, which is why he signed this sheet. This should put the pressure on the Preds to ensure he gets a crack at winning.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Beans15

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 18:23:23

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

To some degree it's moot now, but to say that sending an offer sheet to Stamkos is/was risky, and then state that he could fall back to less than a 40-goal scorer is speculation beyond reality.

And to state that four 1st round picks (late picks based on the premise that a top team would only make this move, thus lose only late round picks) is better than having a player like Stamkos (or Weber for that matter) is borderline ridiculous.

Really – what's more risky? Four late round draft picks, or a player of Stamkos' calibre? A guy who won the Rocket Richard trophy in his second season in the NHL, with 61 goals. I wasn't surprised to see him repeat this feat last season (winning the Richard trophy), but to guess how many goals (let alone NHL games) a late first round pick would achieve in future years is very hard to predict.

While it may appear that teams are afraid to lose four 1st round picks by tendering an offer to a Group 1 RFA, the reality is much different.

Since the lock-out, only one player (Dustin Penner) has moved when a team has tendered an offer to a RFA. Every other time, the residing team has matched the offer.

And how many offer sheets have been provided to RFAs? Less than ten?

To some, this would suggest collusion, or a "nod nod wink wink" kinda relationship between GM's. How many GM's stuck up for Kevin Lowe when he made his offer to Penner?

I'm not sure about collusion taking place, but what I really believe is that teams (almost beyond their financial ability) have made it known they will match RFA offer sheets. And that's precisely want Nashville send they would do, and they did exactly that. They don't want four first round picks down the road, and in losing Weber (and Suter, etc.,) "their" first round draft picks would probably be in the top half. (Top 20 for sure.)

I strongly suspect most teams don't want to create open season on their own RFAs by tendering offer sheets to highly valued RFAs. And of course, they realize that an offer sheet is almost always matched, so it really becomes a useless exercise.

A few things:

1. Would you give up 4-1st round picks for Alex Ovechkin? He had better numbers than Stamkos in his first four seasons playing with worse players. Goal scores always decline. Always. Sure you could point to a Selanne as an anomaly and I can point to a 100 other goal scores who have declined. It's a risk and that is a fact. Did the Oilers win in Penner offer sheet? What would have happened had the Sabres not matched the Vanek offer sheet? Most of the time the team signing the player to the offer sheet loses.

2. You are seriously missing the point of the player having to agree. There might piles of offer sheets every year that you never hear of because the player disagrees. Stamkos clearly did not want to leave as I would suggest there were teams out there tossing offer sheets his way. It's not just a move by a team to sign a player. The player has the ultimate option.

4. The missing piece is not only the team losing the player gaining 4-1st round picks but they also have their own picks. Give any NHL GM at least 2 first round picks for the next 4 years and I will show you a team that will be a playoff contender.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Alex116

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 15:08:46 Well, i'm not at all shocked personally, but that's because i figured all along they had to match. IMO, it pretty much meant the franchise. If they didn't match, would their fanbase, which they've worked so hard on to get to where it is, stay loyal through what would be a re-build, or at least a severe "re-tooling"? If not, this literally could have cost Nashville their team. Even if one or two of these draft picks became studs, it'd be 4-8 years before Nashville benefited from them. Would their team even be in Music City by then?

As for a Weber trade demand down the road, that will be very interesting. There is so much up front money involved that you have to figure Poile would demand a massive return for Weber a year from now when he's eligible to be dealt. Likely, a big chunk of cash would be part of a package to offset monies that Nashville will have paid this season (if this is still allowed under NHL rules?).

I tend to agree with Just1n that if Weber were that against playing in Nashville, there was a much easier way out. He could have asked for a trade or simply played one more season there and walked, though the latter would likely mean missing out on one of the last of the ridiculously long contracts. Surely these thing will be coming to an end, or at least a limited version?

Guest4178

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 14:49:55 To some degree it's moot now, but to say that sending an offer sheet to Stamkos is/was risky, and then state that he could fall back to less than a 40-goal scorer is speculation beyond reality.

And to state that four 1st round picks (late picks based on the premise that a top team would only make this move, thus lose only late round picks) is better than having a player like Stamkos (or Weber for that matter) is borderline ridiculous.

Really – what's more risky? Four late round draft picks, or a player of Stamkos' calibre? A guy who won the Rocket Richard trophy in his second season in the NHL, with 61 goals. I wasn't surprised to see him repeat this feat last season (winning the Richard trophy), but to guess how many goals (let alone NHL games) a late first round pick would achieve in future years is very hard to predict.

While it may appear that teams are afraid to lose four 1st round picks by tendering an offer to a Group 1 RFA, the reality is much different.

Since the lock-out, only one player (Dustin Penner) has moved when a team has tendered an offer to a RFA. Every other time, the residing team has matched the offer.

And how many offer sheets have been provided to RFAs? Less than ten?

To some, this would suggest collusion, or a "nod nod wink wink" kinda relationship between GM's. How many GM's stuck up for Kevin Lowe when he made his offer to Penner?

I'm not sure about collusion taking place, but what I really believe is that teams (almost beyond their financial ability) have made it known they will match RFA offer sheets. And that's precisely want Nashville send they would do, and they did exactly that. They don't want four first round picks down the road, and in losing Weber (and Suter, etc.,) "their" first round draft picks would probably be in the top half. (Top 20 for sure.)

I strongly suspect most teams don't want to create open season on their own RFAs by tendering offer sheets to highly valued RFAs. And of course, they realize that an offer sheet is almost always matched, so it really becomes a useless exercise.

Mario 66

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 13:38:41 It was reported the other day that Nashville has been trying to trade Weber all Summer, but want more then what was being offered. Philly was one of the teams that was tired of David Poille failing to pull the trigger so they tried to pull a fast one. I still think you will see Shea Weber get traded maybe even to the Flyers. This was Nashville's way of saying if you want the best defenseman in hockey we expect to be compensated.

I understand if they let him go they would receive a plethora of draft picks in the coming years, but lets be real with phillies team had Weber gone would Nashville ever get a pick inside the top 20 over the 4 year period? Also, it must be noted that in a market like Nashville (great atmosphere while they are winning) one has to wonder if the fan base would stay loyal if both Weber & Suter were to leave in the same summer for nothing more than a bunch of draft picks that may never pan out & more than likely will never become close to the calibre of player Weber is.

Atleast now Nashville has the puck on their side of the ice and can once again shop Weber and recieve a premium return.

Every journey begins with a single step.

just1n

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 13:31:36 If he really wanted to leave, he should have forced a trade. Or just waited til he was a free agent.

I am shocked that they matched - despite all the protect your asset stuff, I thought the price would simply be too high for NSH to match, money-wise.

I also thought that this offer made it clear that Weber wanted out of NSH. Will we see Weber demand a trade out of NSH after the first season of the deal?

If it looks like the predators need to rebuild, he'll ask for a trade, if not he'll stick it out in nashville

nuxfan

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 12:34:05 matched by NSH.

I am shocked that they matched - despite all the protect your asset stuff, I thought the price would simply be too high for NSH to match, money-wise.

I also thought that this offer made it clear that Weber wanted out of NSH. Will we see Weber demand a trade out of NSH after the first season of the deal?

Beans15

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 10:45:51 Firstly, Stamkos was(is) very young at his first RFA deal which makes him more risky than Weber with nearly 500 games. Secondly, TB would have matched any deal in the heart beat. Thirdly, it's not like a team can just say the want a player and sign him, the player has to agree. Stamkos did not want to leave as Weber does.

I would also like to remind folks of another guy who scored piles and piles of goals for his first few seasons. Where is Ovechkin now? Still a very good hockey player but not getting 50+ goals a year. Pure goal scorers are a risk and specifically one dimensional goal scorers.

If Stamkos falls to even a 40 goal guy he is to worth 4-1st rounders. Weber brings offense and defense to the table. He is one of maybe 4 or 5 guys in the NHL today worth the max RFA sheet.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Guest4178

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 09:25:41 I agree with the earlier comments that giving up 4 first rounders in not unreasonable for a player of Weber's stature.

I thought the same thing about Stamkos last year, when the 22-year-old superstar was up for grabs.

For a team in the top half of the league, you are only going to get better by adding a Weber or Stamkos to your roster, which likely means that 4 first round picks will amount to picks in the latter part of the first round. Sure, there are some gems in there sometimes, but you can also find gems in the later rounds too.

But players like Weber or Stamkos are rarely found. Stamkos is definitely a top 10 player in the NHL (top 5 by most people), and Weber is up there too.

I'm curious though. Why did no teams send an offer sheet to Stamkos last year? Everyone knew his talent (and future potential.) Was it assumed that Tampa Bay would have matched any offers?

It turned out that Stamkos signed for a a very reasonable $37.5 million for five seasons. He must be looking at the Weber deal and wondering why someone didn't make him an offer. (Which would have given him more money regardless of whether Tampa matched the offer or not.)

But no one sent Stamkos an offer sheet. Did Tampa send out a strong signal that they would match any offer given to Stamkos?

And did/does Philadelphia sense weakness on Nashville's part in making the huge offer on Weber?

Alex116

Posted - 07/24/2012 : 00:11:26 Slozo......you may be right. I don't see the Preds taking the 4 draft picks, but if they get a decent package of 2 of the picks and a couple of players they might go that route. If i'm them, i match, unless he's privately told them he'll be completely unhappy. One day soon i'm pretty sure we'll know the truth!

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 07/23/2012 : 14:15:56 As good/great a player Weber is Nashville would be foolish to match the Philly offer. A players as great as Weber is impossible to find but a few players of lessor quality are affordable at the asking price. I say move on from the drama.

slozo

Posted - 07/23/2012 : 06:05:38 With the time that has passed with no answer . . . and knowing that if they (Nashville) match, they will basically have an unhappy player for a year at least (before he's tradeable) . . . it sure looks to me as if the deal won't be matched.

I believe Weber is a Flyer.

What I think is taking the extra time from Nashville's side, is they are exploring different ways to get max. return for Weber. They may think that the possibility of a top 10 or 15 pick for those first rounders is very very slim, and they might try to work out something that leverages a better return. That's my guess, because frankly . . . that's what I would do.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 07/22/2012 : 23:14:38

quote:Originally posted by sahis34

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

They certainly don't, but i still think they can and will find a way to come up with the money! One way they could get some of it will be with the new CBA and it's revenue sharing. Is it not fair to say that they will be getting millions more than they have the past few years from the revenue sharing alone?

What makes you think that revenue sharing will go up,? All the rich teams will want it cut all the poor teams will want it raised.

Well, with what the owners are asking for, i'm assuming there'll be a compromise much like the 50/50 that's been thrown around here. I just can't see it not improving somewhat in the owners favor.

sahis34

Posted - 07/22/2012 : 18:41:29

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

They certainly don't, but i still think they can and will find a way to come up with the money! One way they could get some of it will be with the new CBA and it's revenue sharing. Is it not fair to say that they will be getting millions more than they have the past few years from the revenue sharing alone?

What makes you think that revenue sharing will go up,? All the rich teams will want it cut all the poor teams will want it raised.

Alex116

Posted - 07/20/2012 : 20:26:56

quote:Originally posted by Beans15

This is as situation of haves vs have nots and the cap doesn't even matter. Philly is owned by Comcast, one of the most powerful ownership groups in the NHL. Thry have no issue with a contract like this. Nashville, on the other hand, doesn't have the same girth in the wallet.

They certainly don't, but i still think they can and will find a way to come up with the money! One way they could get some of it will be with the new CBA and it's revenue sharing. Is it not fair to say that they will be getting millions more than they have the past few years from the revenue sharing alone?

quote:Originally posted by Beans15I think Weber is banking heavily on Nashville not signing. His agent was on the radio Thursday and there were a number of interesting quotes. Firstly, he was asked if Suter signed if Weber would have wanted to leave. After a little dancing the agent said that had Suter signed they would not be having the same conversation. Secondly, without saying the words, Weber wants to play in Philly. He was wined and dined by Detroit, San Jose, Vancouver, and the Rangers and he wanted to go to Philly.

You still have to figure that Weber knew/knows that Nashville can and may match and he's gotta realize what that means and be willing to accept that, no? I'm not saying he would prefer to stay in Nashville over Philly. If that were the case, he'd have worked a deal out with them already! But, he must have considered the scenario and realized the possibility is there that he may end up in Tennessee for many a year!

quote:Originally posted by Beans15It's a risk for everyone involved. A risk for Weber as if he wants out of Nashville he might be there for a very long time. Secondly for Nashville because they really can't afford the contract. Thirdly for Philly as regardless of what we all think, they could pull a TO and give Nashville some great draft picks. Looking to the Edmonton/Vanek deal, how much would the Oilers have regretted that move.

This is the best drama to hit the NHL in years.

It's easy to see that the Oilers would have regretted that deal, however, Philly is so much further along than what the Oilers were at the time (even though they were coming off a finals appearance). If this brought Philly the cup, even 1, it would likely be worth it, keeping in mind that there's very little (almost zero) chance that any of the picks will be top 5 or even top 15 for that matter! The picks they get could very well turn into a franchise player or two. Weber himself was a 2nd rounder, but it's hard to bank on that!

I still say they match......

Beans15

Posted - 07/20/2012 : 18:50:42 This is as situation of haves vs have nots and the cap doesn't even matter. Philly is owned by Comcast, one of the most powerful ownership groups in the NHL. Thry have no issue with a contract like this. Nashville, on the other hand, doesn't have the same girth in the wallet.

I think Weber is banking heavily on Nashville not signing. His agent was on the radio Thursday and there were a number of interesting quotes. Firstly, he was asked if Suter signed if Weber would have wanted to leave. After a little dancing the agent said that had Suter signed they would not be having the same conversation. Secondly, without saying the words, Weber wants to play in Philly. He was wined and dined by Detroit, San Jose, Vancouver, and the Rangers and he wanted to go to Philly.

It's a risk for everyone involved. A risk for Weber as if he wants out of Nashville he might be there for a very long time. Secondly for Nashville because they really can't afford the contract. Thirdly for Philly as regardless of what we all think, they could pull a TO and give Nashville some great draft picks. Looking to the Edmonton/Vanek deal, how much would the Oilers have regretted that move.

This is the best drama to hit the NHL in years.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

Alex116

Posted - 07/20/2012 : 17:09:08

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

I think them matching will come down to whether or not Weber wants to be in NSH. Weber's agent was quoted yesterday as saying that NSH should just let it go, by signing this offer sheet it should be clear that Weber wants to move. Would NSH match an offer for a franchise player that ultimately doesn't really want to be there?

This is very interesting. Unless he's told them straight up that he wants out and warned them that he was gonna sign the offer sheet, something doesn't add up. Weber has to know that Nashville could, and very likely WILL, match that offer and keep him. Therefore, he could be a Pred for a very long time. A very rich one of course.

nuxfan, not sure if you read Jason Botchford's piece in The Province today? Here's a link (below) to a very well written article which explains that the Canucks were actually looking at giving him a 1 year deal on an offer sheet with the idea being that even at a huge sum, Nashville would match but he'd be UFA next season and the Canucks could persue him! If they didn't match, they'd forfeit the 4 picks and the thinking is, he'd sign here next year long term? Anyway, as it explains, the whole "CBA" expiration crap completely ruined their chances at that as it's clear that part of the reason Weber did what he did is likely to cash in on one of these multi million / multi year deals that the new CBA likely will restrict somewhat.

Although there's a ton of up front and "early" money for Weber in this deal, Nashville should be able to find a way to match it. Botchford also mentions how apparently Nashville pursued both Suter and Parise with similar dollars to what Minny gave them, knowing they'd still have to deal with Weber. So, there's more money in Music City than some think i'd say.

slozo

Posted - 07/20/2012 : 10:29:53

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

Ok, first things first, i was under the understanding that the only team that can work out a trade with Nashville for Weber now is the Flyers themselves? That's what i heard on the radio and it kinda confused me as i thought, why would they when they've got the offer sheet out there. They explained it as this.....Poile could say to Holmgren, "as rich as this deal is, if you really want Weber, give me 2 first rounders and Matt Read or else i'll match the offer and keep Weber". Now, this is just an example and maybe they wouldn't even get that much for him now, but they could still get something. Anyway, the important point here is that from everything i've heard, Weber is either a Pred or a Flyer next year and nothing can change that now. Can anyone clarify this? Can the Preds still trade him????

My understanding is that the Preds can trade him to anyone they want, they still own his rights (for the next 5 days at least). The offer sheet follows Weber, and the acquiring team would then have the right to match the offer, and they would also be the ones giving up the 4 first rounders. There was talk that NSH might still try to work out a trade with PHI for this, in order to realize instant value for the 4 first rounders.

quote:Secondly, i think they'll match. I think they have to match. The Preds have claimed to be willing to spend to the cap and claimed even with Rinne, they could afford Weber and Suter so why can't they afford this contract? The cap hit is not that bad, all things considered, but obviously it's the "up front" and early money in this deal that will hurt. Either way, Weber might be worth 4 first rounders, but personally i think he's only worth those 4 if you're guaranteed that at least one is top 10 and the others top 15-20. Even that might be light but the 20th-30th picks that Philly will prob end up giving them if they match are far too much of a crap shoot! Ironically, Weber himself was a 2nd round pick, 49th overall (i think?).

I think them matching will come down to whether or not Weber wants to be in NSH. Weber's agent was quoted yesterday as saying that NSH should just let it go, by signing this offer sheet it should be clear that Weber wants to move. Would NSH match an offer for a franchise player that ultimately doesn't really want to be there?

Listening to the radio this morning FAN 590, what was made clear is that:1) Nashville CANNOT trade him2) Once signed by either Nashville or Philly, he cannot be traded for one year

So I believe you are incorrect on point #1.

And my guess is . . . they don't match. Just might be too rich for Nashville. But, I am curious as hell, not too sure on this one really.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

nuxfan

Posted - 07/20/2012 : 08:55:55

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

Ok, first things first, i was under the understanding that the only team that can work out a trade with Nashville for Weber now is the Flyers themselves? That's what i heard on the radio and it kinda confused me as i thought, why would they when they've got the offer sheet out there. They explained it as this.....Poile could say to Holmgren, "as rich as this deal is, if you really want Weber, give me 2 first rounders and Matt Read or else i'll match the offer and keep Weber". Now, this is just an example and maybe they wouldn't even get that much for him now, but they could still get something. Anyway, the important point here is that from everything i've heard, Weber is either a Pred or a Flyer next year and nothing can change that now. Can anyone clarify this? Can the Preds still trade him????

My understanding is that the Preds can trade him to anyone they want, they still own his rights (for the next 5 days at least). The offer sheet follows Weber, and the acquiring team would then have the right to match the offer, and they would also be the ones giving up the 4 first rounders. There was talk that NSH might still try to work out a trade with PHI for this, in order to realize instant value for the 4 first rounders.

quote:Secondly, i think they'll match. I think they have to match. The Preds have claimed to be willing to spend to the cap and claimed even with Rinne, they could afford Weber and Suter so why can't they afford this contract? The cap hit is not that bad, all things considered, but obviously it's the "up front" and early money in this deal that will hurt. Either way, Weber might be worth 4 first rounders, but personally i think he's only worth those 4 if you're guaranteed that at least one is top 10 and the others top 15-20. Even that might be light but the 20th-30th picks that Philly will prob end up giving them if they match are far too much of a crap shoot! Ironically, Weber himself was a 2nd round pick, 49th overall (i think?).

I think them matching will come down to whether or not Weber wants to be in NSH. Weber's agent was quoted yesterday as saying that NSH should just let it go, by signing this offer sheet it should be clear that Weber wants to move. Would NSH match an offer for a franchise player that ultimately doesn't really want to be there?

Alex116

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 23:56:15

quote:Originally posted by nuxfan

one interesting tidbit that came out - NSH has 7 days to match this offer, however they can still trade Weber in that time. The acquiring team would then have the right to match the offer. Imagine NSH trading Weber's rights to someone like TOR/MTL/VAN/NYR, who all have the financial means to take on that contract.

Ok, first things first, i was under the understanding that the only team that can work out a trade with Nashville for Weber now is the Flyers themselves? That's what i heard on the radio and it kinda confused me as i thought, why would they when they've got the offer sheet out there. They explained it as this.....Poile could say to Holmgren, "as rich as this deal is, if you really want Weber, give me 2 first rounders and Matt Read or else i'll match the offer and keep Weber". Now, this is just an example and maybe they wouldn't even get that much for him now, but they could still get something. Anyway, the important point here is that from everything i've heard, Weber is either a Pred or a Flyer next year and nothing can change that now. Can anyone clarify this? Can the Preds still trade him????

Secondly, i think they'll match. I think they have to match. The Preds have claimed to be willing to spend to the cap and claimed even with Rinne, they could afford Weber and Suter so why can't they afford this contract? The cap hit is not that bad, all things considered, but obviously it's the "up front" and early money in this deal that will hurt. Either way, Weber might be worth 4 first rounders, but personally i think he's only worth those 4 if you're guaranteed that at least one is top 10 and the others top 15-20. Even that might be light but the 20th-30th picks that Philly will prob end up giving them if they match are far too much of a crap shoot! Ironically, Weber himself was a 2nd round pick, 49th overall (i think?).

Also, remember who is in charge of this decision here. Of course the owners have a big say, but it's David Poile. This is the same guy who back in 1990 was running the Caps and had St Louis come in and sign Scott Stevens to an offer sheet. He chose not to match and has been quoted as saying "if i could go back, i'd match that in a second". Sure, there's some hindsight there, but let's face it, Weber is just turning 27, is already considered by many to be the best all around player at his position today, is the captain of the Preds, has one of the hardest shots in the NHL, etc, etc. All this leads me to believe that Poile will not let him go. You have to remember, the Preds were surely willing to give him a similar deal, albeit with less money in the first 6 years and a little more affordably spread out?

It will be interesting to see, but i really think they'll match. Colorado found a way to match what was a pretty large offer sheet the Rangers offered Sakic back in '97. According to Adrian Dater of the Denver Post, "The Avalanche had to sell equity in still-in-blueprint-phase Pepsi Center to come up with cash to match Rangers/Sakic '97 offer sheet". They did what they had to do and kept Sakic. Nashville needs to do the same. It's a shame the timing of this thing with the whole CBA thing and all......

A very interesting bit from this article:"Before they landed Penner, the Oilers had struck out with an offer sheet to Buffalo forward Thomas Vanek. The Sabres matched Edmonton's seven-year, $50-million offer and probably now wish they hadn't. Had they declined, the Sabres would have received Edmonton's first-round picks in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. The Oilers used those picks to select Jordan Eberle, Magnus Paajarvi, Taylor Hall and Ryan Nugent-Hopkins."

That would be a nice return for Vanek!

Beans15

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 13:30:46 As I stated in another thread, I don't think Fuhr or Bettman have any love for these kinds of agreements. This is not about one side laughing at the other, it's about two sides working together to solve legitimate issues. Although many of us view the NHL's offer to be a lowball move, the reports from both sides it that talks are going very well and are positive spirits. That's a very good thing for all of us that look forward to seeing hockey in the near future.

Bottom line, the rules are what they are today. You can't fault a GM for following the rules and getting his hands on Weber for the next 14 years. In a matter of week a GM might not have that opportunity ever again. Smok'em if you got'em.

To the Weber thing. A trade would be fantastic. Especially if it's to a team that Weber is not a fan of. It's a risk he took.

If you were Shea Weber, would you look at the time in Nashville and look at Philly and even for a second consider where you should play if you want to win?? Philly will spend, spend, spend until they win. Nashville has been a bargin team forever this season was their most legit chance. You see Suter leave and look around going, 'Yep, we can win the Cup here." I would set sail for Philly as well.

We all know that Weber would be in Nashville after he signed only a 1 year deal last season.

Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!!

The_Gipper

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 12:53:39 to put another view point on it, and adding to what just1n previously pointed out. put yourself in Bettman's shoes. not even a week has gone by since he went to the bargaining table on behalf of the owners, and put down their first offer that included a clause for only allowing max 5 year contracts. and now he's got a GM who's offering up a 14 year contract, that we have to assume was approved by the owner(s) of the Flyers. how in the heck do the owners expect Bettman to negotiate this clause going forward?? are you kidding me??

Fehr and the rest of the PA must be laughing about this one right now.

nuxfan

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 12:45:14

quote:Originally posted by just1n

If he really wanted out of Nashville, this is a weird way to do it. Why not demand a trade in the first place, and at least allow the Preds to get some assets. If the Predators match the offer sheet, he would then force a trade? Seems like a weird way to do it.

According to reports, NSH has been trying to trade him all summer, but other teams were getting tired of waiting. PHI was one of those teams, and tried to short circuit the process with an offer sheet.

just1n

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 11:56:35 If he really wanted out of Nashville, this is a weird way to do it. Why not demand a trade in the first place, and at least allow the Preds to get some assets. If the Predators match the offer sheet, he would then force a trade? Seems like a weird way to do it.

@valanche

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 11:23:15 Andi thought after the whole Dustin penner offer sheet that everyone basically saw this as a dirty way of acquiring players... I think this makes offer sheets fair game from this day forward.

66 is > than 99

@valanche

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 11:21:36 If weber wanted to play in Nashville I don't think he would have signed an offer sheet from another team - granted, maybe Nashville was trying to get a hometown discount. If Nashville matches then I see weber becoming the next Rick Nash.... demanding a trade. Although in this case it will be even more painful as he would have to play or st least one year in Nashville.

Who knew Philly would steal the spotlight two summers in a row?Take the picks or trade him for something better.

66 is > than 99

nuxfan

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 10:51:13 one interesting tidbit that came out - NSH has 7 days to match this offer, however they can still trade Weber in that time. The acquiring team would then have the right to match the offer. Imagine NSH trading Weber's rights to someone like TOR/MTL/VAN/NYR, who all have the financial means to take on that contract.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Trading for someone like Weber is always difficult as you don't know what it will take to sign him to a long term deal - but now every team knows exactly what it will take. They also have some idea of what the cost would be to acquire Weber's rights from NSH. Rival teams in the east may start making offers, just to keep Weber out of PHI.

I've read a fair amount of speculation that NSH will indeed match this offer sheet - which would be fairly substantial for a smaller market team like them. But if they don't, they still have options.

Porkchop73

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 09:08:20 Wow, talk about Philly putting Nashville in a poor spot. I think Nashville was just starting build a good fanbase with a couple of good playoff runs and a couple of big stars. Not sure this helps them even if they get 4 first rounders.

Like someone said, interesting that an owner is trying to slide a big contract in before a new CBA is signed, especially when one of the proposals would eliminate this type of contract.

Its a dog eat dog world in the NHL.

nuxfan

Posted - 07/19/2012 : 08:55:40 I would say that 4 first round picks would be worth it for a player like Weber. There are very few players in the league that I'd say that about, but Weber is one of them. He's (IMO) the best defenseman in the NHL right now, and will fill a huge hole on the PHI blueline once Pronger and Timonen are gone (Timonen is going into the last year of his deal as well). 27 years old, his best years are still ahead of him, and Beans is right, that core group for PHI is a great core for the next decade.

Semin - the bonus payout is technically correct, and he would receive that much in the next *calendar* year (ie, the next 12 months). He would be due a bonus upon signing, his first year's salary, and then his second year bonus next July 1. So 2 bonuses and a salary in the next 12 months.