It's no secret that we need some help rushing the passer, nickel corner, WR, and LB (who can preferably help rush the passer)....Initially who are some guys you are hoping for around our 1st pick spot?

The guy I really want is Alec Ogletree. I see him solidifying our run game while being able to get to the passer from the SLB position. Here's my current top 5:

lukerguy wrote:It's no secret that we need some help rushing the passer, nickel corner, WR, and LB (who can preferably help rush the passer)....Initially who are some guys you are hoping for around our 1st pick spot?

The guy I really want is Alec Ogletree. I see him solidifying our run game while being able to get to the passer from the SLB position. Here's my current top 5:

Assuming the stud DL are off the board (Werner, Jones, Richardson, etc):

1... Ezekiel Ansah

2... Zach Ertz

3... DeAndre Hopkins

4... Arthur Brown

5... Alec Ogletree

I'd only draft Ansah if this means he replaces Red Bryant. I think he could be a stellar 5-tech. As a 3-tech, he'd be Jason Jones caliber. If Carroll insists on keeping Bryant as a starter, then Ansah drops to 5th on the list. I grade Hopkins ahead of Ertz but Ertz would see the field more than Hopkins would. Ertz is going to be a sub-elite TE. Hopkins is the next Roddy White. I grade Ogletree over Brown but Brown is a better fit for what Seattle is looking for at WLB. A lack of speedy LBs pushes the position into strong early consideration.

Last edited by kearly on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Elam's tape and measurables look 2nd or 3rd roundish to me. If he goes in the first it's more an indictment of this safety class. Not sure he fits Seattle's size requirement for an in the box strong safety, but maybe Seattle wants to upgrade on Chancellor's coverage ability. This pick would really surprise me.

Richardson won't make it, but if he slides a little he could be a trade up target.

Short is a good player, but will be a 1-tech in the NFL, 1-tech skillset with sacks- similar to Mebane when he came out. If drafted by us and put next to Mebane, it would look a whole lot like Branch + Mebane the last two years. That's not a bad thing, but I think Seattle wants more from the pass rush than that.

Not a huge fan of Hunter (as a 1st round pick) and Patterson almost seems like the exact opposite of what Seattle is looking for at WR (he's very talented though). Seattle needs a route running wizard that can work himself open. Patterson is the least polished WR that will be drafted in the first several rounds.

Ogletree has great game tape some weeks and bad tape other weeks. Good potential as a pass rusher, looks like a high upside player physically, and is Chancellor-esque as a tackler. Looks lost in zone coverage though, and can be pushed around by blockers a bit. Makes a lot of mental mistakes. Not sure he fits what Seattle wants at WLB, though Carroll might think he can coach Ogletree up. Really a damn shame Seattle couldn't get both Wagner and David last year. Looks like a weak year for LBs in 2013 draft. I would take Lavonte David the prospect over any traditional 4-3 LB in this draft hands down.

If were staying at 25, any interior pass rushers here aren't all that intriguing and I hope we look more to free agency to solve the issue to get us someone who will have more of an immediate impact. FWIW like everyone else my two dream picks would be Richardson or Ansah but gonna assume their off the board.

1A - Deandre Hopkins1B - Zach Ertz. Literally a toss up between the two as I think they would both be tremendous additions and would be great here. Then (obvs depending on how the draft goes) there is quite the drop off of who i'm liking atm.

2 - Jonathon Cooper

3 - Alec Ogletree

4 - Shariff Floyd

5 - Sam Montgomery - Not all that keen on this but am SLOWLY starting to get on board*Wildcard - Manti Te'o, just a real high character guy!

lukerguy wrote:You guys are crazy about this Ezekiel Ansah pick- it shows terrible understanding of what our needs are.

You must feel that John Schneider and Pete Carroll don't understand what the needs of the team are either then. They both specifically said this team needs pass rushers.

RIGHT! We need to draft corner backs in rounds 1-3. Then a new fullback.

Ansah will be a great pick for us at 25 if we can ditch the Red Bryant strategy. Even when he wasn't hurt he didn't do much besides show how obvious our run stopping packages were. If we can have a base four man front while getting Bruce Irvin out there for pass pressure, we will be in a lot better shape.

Ansah had 4.5 sacks as a DE...Yeah, that's a real pass rush? Also, we need pass rush in the INTERIOR. Ansah got eaten up on the interior against non NFL competition. We have a shot at the SB next year, you don't draft a project who may or may not be great in 2 or 3 years.

How can you say that I feel that JS and PC don't understand our needs 3 of my top 5 are designed to increase our pass rush (Ogletree, and two elite pass rushing DTs)

If you draft a DE when are you going to rush him? If so you sit a guy we are paying 6M to in Clem or last year's 1st round pick that we are invested in. This is why I said you lack understanding. There are really only three other spots we can increase our pass rush from:1) our inside DT technique (A la Jason Jones). 2) Sam LB position (Ogletree)3) our other DT technique (mebane)

Jason Pierre-Paul had 6.5 sacks in his final college year. Would you take Jason Pierre-Paul on the hawks? Its about projecting players to the NFL.

In addition to that.....You said those saying Ansah don't understand the "NEEDS" of the hawks. Thats not true. You don't like Ansah, but he or someone who would play that same role would address a "NEED". Your real response should have been that you do not like Ansah, not "you guys don't know anything about hawk needs".

If you draft a DE when are you going to rush him? If so you sit a guy we are paying 6M to in Clem or last year's 1st round pick that we are invested in. This is why I said you lack understanding. There are really only three other spots we can increase our pass rush from:1) our inside DT technique (A la Jason Jones). 2) Sam LB position (Ogletree)3) our other DT technique (mebane)

Do you understand where Red Bryant plays? Kearly, mistaowen, and I are the only people in this thread saying Ansah. We both said "1) Ezekiel Ansah (if we can end the Red Bryant experiment)" I think your problem may be you are skimming the posts versus actually reading them. Seems there is a disconnect somewhere.

I'm not really feeling Ansah either, his age and rawness being another factor when we already have a Irvin who is older. If I was more confident Ansah could come in and create pressure/rotate with Red on running downs as well as nickel/pass rush packages then I would be down. If you think he can do that and contribute immediately then go for it. Most of the players we have a chance on are going to be very raw along the defensive line I think, unfortunately.

Richardson falling to us would be best, my 5 would be.

1. Richarson, Damontre Moore, or Mingo. (Richardson - not gonna happen but a guy can dream, Moore - not gonna happen but would be perfect in the Clemons role I think, Mingo - possibly available at 25 and could play Clemons spot I think.)2. Hopkins - Polished outside receiver can lineup anywhere and have an impact.3. Ertz - Become a 2 TE juggernaut, run or pass in TE sets with Miller but can also get down field as a deep threat for Wilson. 4. Dion Jordan (assuming they think he could play OLB and cover TE)5. Jonathan Banks (Worst case scenario, still a good pickup to add to the secondary)

Last edited by 12th_Bob on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Jason Pierre-Paul had 6.5 sacks in his final college year. Would you take Jason Pierre-Paul on the hawks? Its about projecting players to the NFL.

In addition to that.....You said those saying Ansah don't understand the "NEEDS" of the hawks. Thats not true. You don't like Ansah, but he or someone who would play that same role would address a "NEED". Your real response should have been that you do not like Ansah, not "you guys don't know anything about hawk needs".

If you draft a DE when are you going to rush him? If so you sit a guy we are paying 6M to in Clem or last year's 1st round pick that we are invested in. This is why I said you lack understanding. There are really only three other spots we can increase our pass rush from:1) our inside DT technique (A la Jason Jones). 2) Sam LB position (Ogletree)3) our other DT technique (mebane)

Do you understand where Red Bryant plays? Kearly, mistaowen, and I are the only people in this thread saying Ansah. We both said "1) Ezekiel Ansah (if we can end the Red Bryant experiment)" I think your problem may be you are skimming the posts versus actually reading them. Seems there is a disconnect somewhere.

Double

I truly don't think you understand our needs, it's not that I don't like Ansah...

Red Bryant is our Elephant, he plays our DE position on early down, which we swap him for Irvin on passing downs. We also have two DT, Branch and Mebane who play on early downs as well. Our top 4 man pass rush included clem, mebane, Jones, and Irvin...that's who would normally be in on say 3rd and 8...

My problem with Ansah is that you are giving up on Bryant...He had one bad year, and was surely injured. Why would you give up on a guy you just committed to long term, when there are much greater team needs? If you draft Ansah, you're drafting him to be another pass rush specialty on 3rd down in the Jason Jones technique model? That's not his strength, and nor is it Pierre Paul.

I'm floored that you guys would want to end the Red Bryant experiment...he's what made our offense tick in 2011...He's our team leader on D, and he clearly wasn't right. So you would rather give up on a guy who's showed the potential he had in 2011, and pick his replacement when there are about 4 other spots that we need much more? SMH

lukerguy wrote:I truly don't think you understand our needs, it's not that I don't like Ansah...

Red Bryant is our Elephant, he plays our DE position on early down, which we swap him for Irvin on passing downs. We also have two DT, Branch and Mebane who play on early downs as well. Our top 4 man pass rush included clem, mebane, Jones, and Irvin...that's who would normally be in on say 3rd and 8...

My problem with Ansah is that you are giving up on Bryant...He had one bad year, and was surely injured. Why would you give up on a guy you just committed to long term, when there are much greater team needs? If you draft Ansah, you're drafting him to be another pass rush specialty on 3rd down in the Jason Jones technique model? That's not his strength, and nor is it Pierre Paul.

I'm floored that you guys would want to end the Red Bryant experiment...he's what made our offense tick in 2011...He's our team leader on D, and he clearly wasn't right. So you would rather give up on a guy who's showed the potential he had in 2011, and pick his replacement when there are about 4 other spots that we need much more? SMH

That is why I have to stop having a conversation with you. At this point its pretty clear you don't understand team needs or what you are even talking about. There is too much wrong with that post and the others you have made. If you won't read what others are writing it discourages people from having conversation with you.

lukerguy wrote:You guys are crazy about this Ezekiel Ansah pick- it shows terrible understanding of what our needs are.

Even if I was pro-Bryant, I would be worried about his lengthy injury history. Branch might not be retained in FA. Seattle has to be looking at 5-tech candidates in this draft almost no matter what. Ideally, it would be a player that offers things Bryant can't.

I think Pete is delusional if he thinks he can get a top pass rush with a base 4 man rush that includes Bryant. We are still far away from that goal, and I really doubt we'll get another 11 sacks out of Clemons next year. IMO, an overhaul of most of the line is needed to make this a reality, and perhaps even a philosophy shift. When our zone coverage couldn't cover for shit in 2010, Pete switched to a press-man centric cover system in 2011 and 2012. He is capable of being schematically flexible. I think he'll need to be to solve this problem.

lukerguy wrote:I truly don't think you understand our needs, it's not that I don't like Ansah...

Red Bryant is our Elephant, he plays our DE position on early down, which we swap him for Irvin on passing downs. We also have two DT, Branch and Mebane who play on early downs as well. Our top 4 man pass rush included clem, mebane, Jones, and Irvin...that's who would normally be in on say 3rd and 8...

My problem with Ansah is that you are giving up on Bryant...He had one bad year, and was surely injured. Why would you give up on a guy you just committed to long term, when there are much greater team needs? If you draft Ansah, you're drafting him to be another pass rush specialty on 3rd down in the Jason Jones technique model? That's not his strength, and nor is it Pierre Paul.

I'm floored that you guys would want to end the Red Bryant experiment...he's what made our offense tick in 2011...He's our team leader on D, and he clearly wasn't right. So you would rather give up on a guy who's showed the potential he had in 2011, and pick his replacement when there are about 4 other spots that we need much more? SMH

That is why I have to stop having a conversation with you. At this point its pretty clear you don't understand team needs or what you are even talking about. There is too much wrong with that post and the others you have made. If you won't read what others are writing it discourages people from having conversation with you.

The deal is for five years and $35 million with $14.5 million in guarantees, league sources told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter.

Bryant transformed into one of Seattle's most valuable defensive players after appearing on his way out of the NFL after the 2009 season.

So either our FO had no idea what they were talking about signing a guy to a $35,000,000 contract, or you are dead wrong. Bryant was dramatically important to our team in 2011, thus we felt like we couldn't lose him...Please come up with an intelligent thought before responding...please.

lukerguy wrote:You guys are crazy about this Ezekiel Ansah pick- it shows terrible understanding of what our needs are.

Even if I was pro-Bryant, I would be worried about his lengthy injury history. Branch might not be retained in FA. Seattle has to be looking at 5-tech candidates in this draft almost no matter what. Ideally, it would be a player that offers things Bryant can't.

I think Pete is delusional if he thinks he can get a top pass rush with a base 4 man rush that includes Bryant. We are still far away from that goal, and I really doubt we'll get another 11 sacks out of Clemons next year. IMO, an overhaul of most of the line is needed to make this a reality, and perhaps even a philosophy shift. When our zone coverage couldn't cover for shit in 2010, Pete switched to a press-man centric cover system in 2011 and 2012. He is capable of being schematically flexible. I think he'll need to be to solve this problem.

The philosophy works if you can stop the run. Bryant wasn't right this year. We were must better against the run in 2011, but we still couldn't get the QB on 3rd and long. Hypothetically if you could mix 2011 run stopping production with better pass rushers, you have a match made in heaven..Unfortunately, if you can't stop the run, and you can't get to the QB on 3rd down...well you have what we had this year.

I think Quinn will help with our pass rush, but I can't see us abandoning the Bryant DE strategy..It has the potential to be too dominant against the run.

For our Defense to take the next step forward we need to Generate "A" Gap pressure. So a DT in the mold of someone like Dockett, Ngata (freak of nature), Geno Atkins, is what we desperately need. It is our #1 need but as i have said earlier in the season i just don't see any DT that impress me enough besides Lotulelei but he is not going to make it out of the top 5. I would say at 25 the logical pick would be an OG but i am pretty sure Sweezy can develop and i still have faith in Carpenter taking over on the left side. So you can throw that out. The WR class in my opinion is deep and good so i think we can wait on a WR in the second round. As much as i hate to say this it's really starting to look like Ertz may be the best fit and value for the team and when it comes our time to pick. But i still think McCoy had a good year this year. I still want to wait on WR shuttle and 40 times to see what some of the higher rated prospects do in this regard. We have not had a legitimate deep threat since Galloway and with Russell's arm i think that is what we desperately need to open the offense up and scare defenses completely. Other than that the only other scenario i see happening in the first round is us drafting an OLB or possibly trading back for more picks. So i would say our options are TE, OLB, Trade. If we trade back to the second and get a couple more picks a second and a 4th and future 2nd we could still get a good OLB in Greene (Rutgers), Brown(Kansas State), the TE from San Diego State Gavin Escobar (Only a Junior). So if we did trade back and get more picks i would like to see us take.1. Arthur Brown OLB Kansas State2. Gavin Escobar TE San Diego State3. Or i would be happy with the most explosive and talented WR left on the board.

Kelly.Orr wrote:For our Defense to take the next step forward we need to Generate "A" Gap pressure. So a DT in the mold of someone like Dockett, Ngata (freak of nature), Geno Atkins, is what we desperately need. It is our #1 need but as i have said earlier in the season i just don't see any DT that impress me enough besides Lotulelei but he is not going to make it out of the top 5. I would say at 25 the logical pick would be an OG but i am pretty sure Sweezy can develop and i still have faith in Carpenter taking over on the left side. So you can throw that out. The WR class in my opinion is deep and good so i think we can wait on a WR in the second round.

lukerguy wrote:The philosophy works if you can stop the run. Bryant wasn't right this year. We were must better against the run in 2011, but we still couldn't get the QB on 3rd and long. Hypothetically if you could mix 2011 run stopping production with better pass rushers, you have a match made in heaven..Unfortunately, if you can't stop the run, and you can't get to the QB on 3rd down...well you have what we had this year.

I think Quinn will help with our pass rush, but I can't see us abandoning the Bryant DE strategy..It has the potential to be too dominant against the run.

Our run defense ranking, by season (football outsiders):

2012: 12th2011: 12th2010: 17th2009: 10th2008: 17th2007: 5th

Our rush defense peaked in 2007. Since then it's pretty much held steady between 10th and 17th. The best run defense we've had in the last 5 years was actually the year right before the Red Bryant experiment began. Really, the numbers don't support the idea that Red Bryant at end has helped our run defense. It probably just feels that way because Seattle's run defense always starts out really strong before falling off the planet in the 2nd half of the year. I'm starting to think this isn't a coincidence. You would expect a 330 pound DE to wear out in the 2nd half.

Those run problems continued in the playoffs.

Quinn was here before the Red Bryant experiment began. I don't expect him to end it, because I suspect it was Carroll, the guy who loves unique players, who made that call.

But I guess we'll see what happens. Even when I disagree with Pete, I have faith in him. He played Mebane at the 3 tech in 2010 when it was obvious to any tenured Seahawks fan that he belonged at the 1. Pete later said in his defense that he "didn't know" about Mebane's history at the 1. Fair enough. Maybe he'll pull the "didn't know" card again with Bryant, that he didn't know until the season was basically over how Bryant had been holding our line back. Or maybe he'll double down.

Either way, I heard exasperation in Pete's voice when he talked about pass rushers in the plural form. He knows radical action is needed. I guess we'll find out what that ends up being.