Muslim cleric Ahmad Degel delivered some old time religion at his Idul Fitri sermon at the Bogor Botanical Gardens on the 24th, saying that faith was a powerful weapon indeed against the enemies of Islam, the countries of the West, because it put God in the Muslims' corner:

Besides sophisticated weapons, faith is the most powerful armour against the enemies of Islam because God has promised to help those who have faith.

He is said to have claimed that strong faith could defeat attackers even though they wielded superior armaments. The Palestinians had shown this, he said:

With rocks the Palestinian people have been able to defend their country from the attacks of Zionist Israel.

The West, according to the preacher, was currently engaged in all-out war against Islam, and he advised sticking together, and strong faith, as a way of withstanding the assault.

Muslims unity is a must. Let us struggle together to strengthen our unity and faith.

After killing a pastor in Sulawesi, Islamic militants burned down a church yesterday. The Indonesian government also announced a delay on the executions of the Bali bombers. This is what happens when Muslims stick together.

With faith and rocks (are those the rocks in their heads??) the Palestinians have overcome. Hmmmmmm… They seem utterly miserable according to this AFP story. And read how much the rest of the world cares about their sad plight. No presents for the kids this Eid, no food, no jobs and no money. Ya that sounds like a victory.

Instructing Muslims to stand together against the attacks of the West will only serve to further the divide between “Muslims” and “the rest”. Muslim leaders should take the higher path and instead of preaching divisive tactics, should encourage integration. The greater the divide gets, the more alienated Muslims will feel and will become, and the more they will feel they have to defend themselves. If people stop seeing each other as “Muslims” as “Westerners” as “non-believers” and see each other for what they are, i.e. fellow humans, then there will be no need for weapons. Religion could play a great part in this. Unfortunately it often serves only to create division.

Like many problems, such opinion is also common in the western world.
More and more the Islam is seen as enemy.
I’m asking my self: Who much westerner do they know? (I mean those, who blubber such absurdity). At the other side I made the experience, that westerner, who view the Islam as a foe image, don’t even know any Moslem.
The problem is, both sides read terrible news and accept it as the truth without trying to know or to understand the background.
It’s the easier path, isn’t it? “The west”: Generalisation shows only the simpleness of the thinking.

“They are evil, because they fullfill our concept of sinisterness. We don’t admit them their difference. Good and evil are human postulated values based on their cultures and believes. We have much difficulty to accept, no: just to try to imagine, that our values are not automatically the values of others and that maybe their appreciation about good and evil is not comply with ours.
So each nation, each culture, each faith has it own aliens, at the other side of the border.” (found in a science fiction book and a little bit modified).

When some African countries exploited for their natural resources by ‘the westerns’, they certainly cannot defend them self, and look at the oil from Nigeria flowing out from their countries without proper compensation to them, and many more..

when some Muslim countries exploited for their oil, some compensation given to the royal family (mostly) but that is nothing compared to the wealth of oil company (look at to the profit report shell, bp, exxon mobile, etc). This leaving the people in poverty (thus also can’t afford education-> uneducated). That means the chain will never break, they will always in that state.

Basically it is the same method Westerns keep their interest to the poor countries with rich of natural resources (and manual labour). The major different is, African people living abroad will not feel bad when their fellow countrymen being unfairly treated, murdered, and their country exploited, they don’t have strong relation.
In other hand, when many Muslim in bosnia being slaughtered, Palestinian defends their place to live, Lebanon&Iraq being invaded, Iran soon, we as a Muslim will feel their misery & injustice. There’s a strong relation between any Muslim in any country, even logically we’re different in race and geographic area. this kind of solidarity will not exist on, for example, African people, or even Christian..

To summary, in case of African:
– the western exploited natural resources
– no proper compensation for local development/ education
– but no strong relation with any community in the other side of the world, only internal militia problem (lots of kidnapping, guerillas)

in case of Muslim world (palestina, Lebanon, Iraq, Arab, etc):
– the western wants their oil
– they make the royal very very rich -> to give an image that Muslim is not poor at all, although we knew those royal is not represent Muslim community at all
– strong brotherhood feeling from any other part of the world because Muslim relation -> this is way it is important for the western if they can create the world somehow the Muslim will not related each other, remove the brotherhood feeling

I still belive that corruption, injustice is not related to religion, we know Bangladesh is the most corrupt country, Indonesia is not better as well, but look at Malaysia, they’re well managed, and although Muslim is majority, they run the government much better than most other Muslim countries. So it is unfair as well to say Arab people is cruel, ugly and greedy becouse of they’re Muslim, in fact Arab people is the worst of the worst of human being, and Islam proven to make them better, and at some point makes them rule the world.

I remember a time when I was little and didn’t know anything about all this religion stuff, what a happy time it was. I played with Muslims and Catholics and Hindus and Protestants and Buddhists. We were all too young and ignorant to even know what it meant to be Muslim or Christian or whatever, so none of it ever mattered. To bad we must one day grow up and become enlightened and join a tribe so we can hate everyone else.

Mandala, the big oil ompanies you mentioned have access to no more than 10-15% of world oil reserves. Almost all reserves are in the hands of the Putins, Chavezs, Saudi Royal families and the likes. The reason why you are impressed by their books is because they are required to hold books and the reason why you are impressed by their wealth is because they are required to disclose it (it is called accountability).
As to Nigeria, the oil reserves are in the undeveloped Southern part of the Country, a Christian (Ibo) area, and the wealth slips away. Therefore they are exploited by their own countrymen who hold the power. And I would like to remind you that during the Biafra war, the Muslim Countries were not siding with the Ibos a-la-Robin Hood.
In Indonesia as in many other places (Muslim and not Muslim alike…but why on earth a land has to be Muslim?), oil belongs to that Country and is unevenly distributed once it is produced (in favor of the Country).
Western do not want the Muslim oil, they buy it at 60-70USD/barrel, and they use it to run the economy, create wealth and distribute it.
Lebanon is not a Muslim Country.
Finally the Arab of Palestine do not want their own State by the side of Israel because, if they wanted it, they would have it in 1947, 1948, 1967, Camp David 1, Camp David 2 etc.
As to the last sentence, I really do not get it.

Western civ already proven their intention to exploit from long long time ago. We Indonesian occupied by dutch for three and half centuries, and guess what?? until now we still paying them every year because we lost the war!! in that time, it is OK to kill locals for new land, new food, gold, and other metals. The incredible thing also all of them come very2 cheap as the locals will process and do all the hard works, leaving you the colonialist with cheap finish product, and this up to now you still call it ‘a trading’. A trade which you hold guns and cannons, where the locals still use sharpened bamboo to defend themself.

Nowadays, as we start to understand freedom of life, and human right, whereas your need on oil keep increasing, you need to find such a way that you can still get what you want, without bad mark as colonialist, and even you want it all, you wanted we look at you as a savior, as a democracy tutor, as a humanist.

My correction: what I refer as Muslim country (like Indonesia) is Muslim majority countries. And I will keep refer you in west europe, UK, and US as western.

Mandala, that graph shows only where the oil production is coming from. Nothing else. The question is “who that oil belongs to?”. I repeat that oil belongs mostly (80%) to the oil producing Countries and it is sold as any other commodity to oil consumer Countries. In this case at 60-70USD/bbl. The oil produced in Indonesia belongs to Indonesia, that is, to you too. Mandala, it is paid for, not stolen, at market price. Price is made by OPEC which is not run by the West and by the market (where you need at least two parties. Unless you assume that we are exploiting New Zealand for their wool, and France for their cheese and wine. Or that the West is exploiting poor underpaid Chinese and Indonesian workers. Look at the Countries where the main social inequalities are and there you will find the answer to your the quest for social justice. Look especially at those Countries with huge natural resources like Indonesia, or Saudi Arabia, or Iran, or Mexico or Venezuela. They are nowadays flooded with oil revenues and where is all ths immense wealth going into???? Guess!!

To be honest I do not understand why this debate has turned to oil. What has oil got to do with religion? Giving examples of countries that are predominantly Muslim that have oil and comparing them to examples of countries that are seen as non-Muslim countries or even of the evil “Western” oil companies does not add anything to this particular debate. Saying that certain countries with oil are treated differently to other countries purely because they are Muslim is a huge over-simplification. Insinuating that the large oil companies represent the whole of the West and all it stands for is another cheap statement. The way the oil companies treat the oil-producing countries has nothing to do with Islam in particular, or religion as a whole. It is about profit and capitalism. Whilst it is seemingly increasingly common to use “capitalism” and “profit” as all-embracing terms to describe and explain “the West” and their attitudes to the rest, it is not correct. Just as it is incorrect to say that all Muslims subjugate women. As people have stated above, the only relevance this oil issue has with the debate about religion is to show that predominantly Muslim countries (just like predominantly non-Muslim countries) have a lot of problems that have nothing to do with the West and that are of their own making, i.e. corruption. Just as Muslims seem to be an easy scapegoat for some parts of the West at the moment, so it would seem the “evil” West is an easy scapegoat for Muslims to use. As far as I am concerned, scapegoating is a very easy and useful method for shifting the blame from yourself and for ignoring the real (often self-made) causes for problems.

To be clear, I’m writing not defending corrupted Indonesian gov, nor greedy Arab oligarch, nor preacher who spread the hatred. I just want us objectively admit, that ‘exploitation’ still exist. its not the kind of old colonialization, where Britain ruled 25% of earth surface at some point. I agree you bought the oil with fair price etc., but look at the way you secure the channel, look when Iraq wants to sell the oil with euro instead of USD, US then ‘secure’ them by fatal invasion. The similar way when Muslim in Bosnia slaughtered in the past, lebaneese suffer from beirut destruction again and again, Palestinian struggle to defend their territory line, and I belive soon Iran will have the same threat. This really nothing to do as if they’re Muslim or not, but for all other Muslim in the world will feel very distracted.

We Muslim feel as one, and eventhough we’re in different country and also different race, we share the same feeling. This 1.5 billions community is really threat if at some point we’re united and move with one vision. the phrase ‘divide et impera’ is really proven as an efficient way. Enemy of Islam in my opinion is not only political agenda to divide Muslim, to make them relatively moderat thus weaken the brotherhood feeling, also corruption, poverty, illiteracy, and lack of education, which still far away from winning battle.

Islam come to the world as light in the darkness, to shed the light to in the first time to worst of the worst human being (Arab). They kill their own daughter, worship stone gods, barbaric, and education was never exist in their community. Until then they can rule a big part of the world at some point, just to prove a good ‘tools’ can create masterpiece out of barbaric tribes. Whereas western community is result from long term evolution to become advanced creature as result of struggle survival in worst part of the world (imagine your ancestor lives and survive from this bloody winter, they must be very clever). Both of them are Allah’s will and within His power as well will come the peace, or else…

Mandala:
if the Muslims feel as one, why they kill each other in series? See in Irak: Shiits kill Sunnites and Sunnites massacre shiits. Are the Muslims really feel as one?

According to your opinion, the lack of education, the corruption, poverty, illiteracy etc. are results of the assault of the Islam enemys. Sorry, if you really think like that, wether you are naive or simply minded. Look at the Indonesian Departement of Religion (Amin Sunaryadi, vice chairman of the KPK said, that the DR is one of the most corrupt state bodies in Indonesia. Hmm, maybe they are already infiltrated by the CIA or MI5 or Mossad? Or maybe just the Christian employees and the Christian high rank officials are corrupt?

“whereas western community is the result of a long time evolution to become advanced creature as result of struggle (of life) to survive in the worst part of the world (imagine your ancestor lives …..)”

Maybe you didn’t know (or better: don’t want to know): every civilization and every culture is the outcome of the struggle to survive in every part of the landscape in this world. And each part of this world has it’s special beauty. Worst? Worst in comparison to what? To the brain landscapes of some confused people? Did you ever visit Europe? I know Europe and I know Indonesia. Believe me, there are many beautiful corners in Europe and you surely know, there are some inhospitable areas in Indonesia.
The sawah-culture in Indonesia is the result of tousands of years development, which are also a kind of struggle to survive. The nowadays Indonesian culture is the result of the conjunction of many, many cultures since tousands of years and the nowadays Indonesian is the descendant of mongolic-caucasian citizen groups immigrated to the area now named Indonesia long before our valid eras.
Maybe you are right, that the Islam came to the world as light in the darkness. The problem is, that many of those who name themselves Muslims stand outside of the cone of the light, so they did’t and don’t receive the light of enlightenment. You knoe, the Christian think in similar way, and many, many of them reside out of the ring of the light.
BTW those western creature invented the electricity including the electric lamp and also the computer you live with. Don’t forgett the firearms and the bombs.

The biggest and most terrible enemy is yourself. Do the jihad akbar and fight the evil in yourself, independent to your faith.

Callling the West the “enemy of Islam” is similar to calling Islam the “terrorist of the world”.

Regardless of my race or my religion, I don’t think any of those 2 statement is correct.

Mandala, you claimed that the West exploits other countries. Before coming to that conclusion, did you ask why those countries could be “exploited”? do you think the West could just go into any country and “exploit” them?

It is not that easy. One of many reasons why the West could do that is because the government officials in those “exploited” countries allow the West to “exploit” their countries — BECAUSE THOSE OFFICIALS ARE CORRUPT AND THINK ONLY OF THEIR PERSONAL INTEREST, NOT THEIR COUNTRY’S INTEREST.

I don’t think it is fair to blame anyone before doing a root-cause analysis.

Tomaculum: I think we have lost in translation here, first of all, killing each other in Iraq is the similar level in the day protestant and Catholic kills each other, and that is still a problem. The second, poverty, corruption, illiteracy are not assault of Islam enemy, they are (the poverty, corruption, illuteracy) enemy of Islam, as enemy of any civilization in general. Islam in here takes a challenge to shed a light to enlight those problem. Of course that is not a picnic, where people doing 5 times a day, but still stealing and corrupted. My point is this is not a result, but the challenge it self. And I gave the example when the first time Islam implemented, change the Arab from poverty, illiterate, worshiping stone, daughter killer, to a great ruler, conquered many part of the world.

In the other side, the west, has developed them self as very advanced civilization, as result of surviving on unimaginable place in earth. In Indonesia, we can easily throw wooden stick, and next month we can have cassava for our food, and we don’t need to suffer from cold winter. My point is, western civ become advance civ, dominated all invention and technology, as result of heavy natural selection in middle age. But don’t also forget, all fundamentals sciences laid down when Arab in their rise, from astronomy, numeric, algebra, medical, etc. in the time where Arab scientist explore Qur’an as their base.

Yeah I really agree with you about most Muslim nowadays actually stand out over the light it self, where the Christian proven that is the way they freed up their mind and progressed, we are Muslim in contrary should stick with the Qur’an if we want to progress.

Andrew: My point of exploitation or today we should say ‘exploitation’ is when the west wants to secure their sources, like US secure their interest in Iraq. I believe the west never bother (if not they willl be very happy) with corruption in Bangladesh, and Indonesia, as it would ease them to get what they want. Once a nation like Iraq try to manage them self, implement efficiency (by moving from petrodollar), this will make them use their ‘old way’. If you’re Indonesian, please remember 3 and half centuries our country exploited by dutch. When Iran try to find alternate source of energy, the west started to panic, and we all know what will happen next.

One day in Sky news, there was an interview between the famous newscaster with the radical Muslim leader, and the point is, they also don’t like this kind of foreign policy (to invade Iraq), and as democratic country, if you don’t like their foreign policy, then vote against them, seems to be logical. Until if you can find to your heart, will any western gov make different FP than they have now??? so basically whoever you choose as government body, they will do the same thing, as it is the common interest in the west. They will still invade Iraq, put army in Afgan, help Israel to kill innocent (in excessive way), threaten iran and syria, defend their people who disgrace Muhammad. Stick together means also combat with our own weakness, poverty, illiteracy, corruption, and I believe that are the most important jihad.

mandala, if you insist that the west exploits other country, then i assume you also believe that Islam is the terrorist of the world.

i myself believe in neither of the statement.

but for the sake of discussion, consider this: when the Muslim Arabs occupied spain and other european countries back in the middle ages, wasn’t that an exploitation as well? does that ring a bell? was the Arabs considered as “the west”?

how about Indonesia’s occupation of east timor and west papua? isn’t that exploitation?

how about Japan’s occupation of Indonesia? the 3.5 years of the Japanese occupation is more painful than the 350 years of the dutch’s.

why is it that only “the west” gets the blame? because they have ties with the Jews? I am having a problem understanding the mentality behind the “anything related to the Jews is bad” attitude. is it true that your religion tells you to hate the Jews?

iran looking for an alternative source of energy? you’re kidding me… right, they are looking for an alternative source of energy, to blow up other countries, that is.

about corruption in Bangladesh and Indonesia, what would you expect the west to do? i personally think they’ve done more than enough to help the the third world countries – face the fact that the west helps a lot more than your oil-rich Muslim brothers.

When Indonesia occupied timtim with the gun, and killing locals, yes that is ‘exploitation’ which I refer to, the same thing happen if army and freeport kills local people in irian (if that happen, I’m not sure).

On timtim case, all Christian community in the world react, and they push and push Indonesia at internation forum until finally they liberated. When we do the similar thing, this kind of solidarity, and try to push ‘the west’, you and most all the western will angry with us, and put a ‘radical’ mark on us.

My problem, as many Muslim in the world problem, is when those similar act happen to our brother in middle east, I’m not saying it would not be a problem when they kill each other, it is a problem. But this Iraq & afgan invasion, Lebanon agression, Palestinian border conflict, is definitely under ‘the west’ control. They can choose to do that or not to do that. It’s that simple.

andrew: you said “It is sad that a lot of people misuse their capacity to spread hatred against others”, the funny thing is, after reading the article over and over again, I still can’t figure out which part of the sermon that “spread hate against others”. can you please quote them for me?

and you also said “if you insist that the west exploits other country..”. please open any books regarding politics, history and international relationships and you will easily find out that the strong nations had always exploited the weak over the ages and throughout history. that’s how the strong became how they are today (strong), and that’s how they preserved their powers. they became strong by colonialising others some centuries ago, and they preserved their powers by using politics today and by way of liberalism and globalization. the west are not saints..

if you believed that the west is not exploiting anyone accross the world (not just Muslims) as we speak, then you are naive indeed.

the main issue here is generalization. by using the word “the west” you are generalizing – if you agree that “the west exploits other country” then you must agree that “Islam is the terrorist of the world”.

if you think I am naive then you are not thinking deep enough.

not all occupations are exploitation; as i mentioned in my first (or second?) post, in a lot of cases it can be attributed to the corrupt government officials.
both the east and the west (and the middle east) have their fair share of occupying other countries

hmm then what word will fit ‘the … exploits other resourceful countries’ then? and to be more general, the countries will not limited to Muslim as well, that could be Africans, it could be tribes in irian jaya. east timor is a good example, when you all Christian communities act, and freed them. The same feeling happen on us.

Iraq invasion, to be a good example for the west, is generally condemned by the west people, that is also distinguish between political agenda, and general view of west people. But do you think US will stop their act just because their citizen refused to? I heard that petition to withdraw their troops is on the way, signed by the troop it self! think then.. And if US refused to do so (withdraw the troops), will UK and another western do the same? there’s a fine line between political & ecomony interest, and their humanity value, and they keep this double standard all the way, and I belive they never change!!

to be more objective, this is open for discussion, the east is not only about Muslim, we can see the rise of China now, and in my opinion, chineese will be the real threat to the west in the future. China I believe will get along well with Muslim world, as they have different approach with the west. They are resourceful them self, and very hard worker. Chineese, despite of many local clash in Indonesia, I respect them as motor of Indonesian economic growth. It is not about winning or loosing the competition, but the west definitely proven them self the way they secure their interest, from colonialization time until now remain unchanged.

Middle age is another discussion, in that time (starting from roman empire to the west colonial time) they all do the same thing, they all kill people to conquer, we know that..

—-

andrew:

both the east and the west (and the middle east) have their fair share of occupying other countries

-> sure, I agree, then you care about East timor (Christian community) occupied under indo regime, and you also proved that all Christian moved as one to freed up the country, and it’s done.
Why can’t we act, or express the similar way for Iraq invasion, middle east chaos? It is very clear on the article as well, when the preacher ask for the solidarity. It’s not generalization, as he gave a clear example.

If the preacher gave a clear example, then he should only attack that particular example, and not broaden the attack using the word “the west”.

Remember when the west blame Islam for the 9/11 incident? you guys were outraged when people blamed Islam, weren’t you?

However, I hate to say that Iraq is a bad example – what is clear to some is not always clear to others in the same way. A lot of people believed Iraq and Afghanistan were a threat.

North Korea, Cuba and Venezuela, just to name a few. Are they predominantly Muslims countries? No – but there is something negative going on between them and the US government. My point is, I hope people can get rid of all notions that the west in general is the enemy of Islam.

Then how can we describe the .. then? perhaps political and economical policy of western countries? or what? should we put the Nothing? I explained before, that their Foreign policy could change if the would, but will they? it is intrinsic, because they need to.

N Korea, Cuba, and other former communist, they have their own alliance, and I’m sure still a link between them to help each other, but again, US proven again their ability to divide between them. If I’m communist, may be I will replace the west with the US (or may be UK in addition).

after 9/11, we suffer also from this generalization anyway, I think we all know that.. outrage is a response, but the different treat we receive is act, real.

How more sick can you get Mr. Degel? Double your prozac pills or report to mental institution. Like Arafat, you have no hope as a human being.

West declared war in Islam? Palestinians defend their land with throwing stones against Zionist tanks? How perverted SOB are you Degel?

You are common propagator of nazi-communism virus – Islam. That is the problem. Get the Islam out of the middle east and give Palestinian people a chance to live their own lives. Islam, not Israel or west is the problem down there. Islam is the teaching of hate, violence, murder, terror and deceit.

Western countries did not declare war against any religion. Religions are important part of who and what we human being are, because this is our individual identity. Humans always wanted to believe in something greater than they were. Humans have created many gods for themselves, to lead them, to be with them in need. Arabic beduins and nomads let say, had created many-many gods, such as the Sun god, Moon god, etc. and all of these “gods” were called Allah, the god of this or that, whatever the need or reason they wanted.

Most humanity have done so, so Arabic beduins and tribal nomadic people are not excluded from the rest humanity who created their own gods. Jews had three major gods: Baal, Molech, and El. Incas, Aztec, islanders of Polynesians, Papua, Celebes, Australian aborigines, Hawaii, Europeans they all had own gods, like Arabic nomads and beduins had. So, Allahs, are Allahs which was created by nomadic and beduin people of Arabian territories. That is okay with me, and the rest of the western countries. One Allah more or less, will not make the world poorer or richer.

In case your Islamic doctrines blinded you completely Mr. Degel, the biggest damage to Palestinian people did Arafat, who screwed them up without mercy. Arafat was pure Islamic nazi SOB, terrorist and murder of Palestinian people. He enslaved them in Islamic ghettos and Islamic slums, and made sure they will never see the truth about him and Islam. Poor and uneducated Palestinians are meat for Islamic meat grinder for Islamic games against humanity.

Mr. Degel, name one Pakistani, Indonesian, Saudi, Syrian, Iranian, Egyptian family who adopted a single Palestinian or Pakistani orphan? Mr Degel, name one Palestinian orphan or child who is not train as a suicidal bomber? Well, is that telling us something about the Islamic love to another Islamic person?

I am not Jew, I am Polish, so I have no reason to defend or accuse either side. Palestinian people are most abused by Islamic people, not Israelis. Mr Degel, lies and deceit’s are common weapons of Islamic manipulators like you, against Islam followers. People like you destroyed Islam, not western countries. With people like you, Islam have no chance of surviving.

All ayatollahs and mullahs and persons like Degel are screwing Islam followers. They amass extreme fortunes by exploiting poor and uneducated people. People who were born to this nazi-communis system of Islam, do not know normal life, human rights, humanitarian love, and what is their own worth.

Arafat was the biggest thief who ever lived in Palestine territories, and because he is “Muslim”, and he hates “Jews”, he became “hero”. So, that’s telling you what is needed to do, to become a “famous Muslim” So, this is a simple position of Islam: in order to become a “Muslim”, you have to rip off other Muslims, hate Jews, and created lies against western countries, and Islam.

That is why people like Arafat and Degel have degraded Islam to a mental disorder illness. They are mentally sick bustards. One of them – Arafat kicked the bucket, one more to go! Before Arafat died, has have stolen almost 2 billions of dollars from Palestinian people. The money western countries sent to help Palestinian people. I hope this bustard rotten somewhere in the desert sands, and donkey and camel piss on the spot he is buried in.

Western countries sent reliefs money to Pakistan as well, in hope to help victims of natural disasters. What these Islamic people are doing with the relief money? They are funding terrorism training camps to fight the people who just send them money to rebuild their land, their own homes, to buy food, clothes, medicine, etc.. Western people send relief money, but Islamists went there to gather orphans, to turn and train them as suicide bombers like this Bali bomber who killed over 220 peaple, who was released from jail because he is Muslim, for the “Islam cause”, so people like Arafat, Degel, and other ayatollahs and mullahs can fill their bank accounts with the money they got from the western evil countries.

To you all die hard Islamist: compare the creation of two important legend in Islam word: 1. The Gate, or the Way, in Arabic al-Bab. He was proclaimed as a prophet in late 1890s, got huge crowds and populous follow his teachings, and was murdered by ayatollahs and mullahs. Why would religious leaders kill own prophet? Money, greed, envy and lost of control over masses!.
Person #2. Mohamed, the “prophet”. The problem is, Mohamed was and still is very popular name in Arabic countries. Scenists have problems in putting together one Mohamed to many different places and times.

Some scholars doubt his existence at all. But still, mullahs and ayatollahs and other “Islamic” leaders are keeping the legends alive to amassed huge fortunes for them selves. In any case, even if Mohamed existed, he would be an illiterate fellow who couldn’t scrabble a thing on the sand, never less write or dictate a koran. Also, please note that the oldest version of koran was written at least 200 years after the death of Mohamed, presumed Mohamed. The problem is which Mohamed we are talking about?

The second oldest koran script is believed to be written 250-300 years after same unknown Mohamed’s death. So, which words Mohamed have written or dictated to the koran him self?

There was one Mohamed who was a criminal element and was banned from Mecca by the Mecca’s court and legal court orders. Compare this let say to current Indonesian matters of Mr Tibo, Mr. Riwu and Mr DeSilva. These three man were proclaimed criminals in the eyes of their own government, as Mohammed was a criminal in the eyes of the Mecca government.

So, basically Mr. Tibo, Mr. Riwu, and Mr DeSilva and Mr Mohamed all four of them are same kind of common criminals. So, why in Mecca they let the common criminal Mohamed free, and banned him from Mecca, spearing his life, but modern Indonesian Islamic government shot these three men dead? Well, it is simple, for this same reasons ayatollahs and mullahs murdered the Gate, al-Bab. Also, Mr. Mohamed was lucky, he didn’t lived in Islam infected country.

I would be glad to discuss in public media such as Indonesia Matters or others, this matter with any “esteem scholar” of Islam. So, this particular Mohamed falls in same category like Stalin, Hitler, Pol-Pot, Arafat, Hussain, and Husseini to name few. All of these men murdered, and robbed their own people as well as any one who had different pont of view. It is a matter of time, when Indonesian president will turn this way as did Hussain, Stalin and Hitler and Pol-Pot. Islam is mental disorder, that is why.

Or, is creating of koran a money making device for mullahs, ayatollahs and “esteem Islamic” scholars and leaders? Any questions? Please!

Any die hard Islamist – Muslim, or “esteem Islam scholar”, is welcome to ask me, or to comment on the subjects I mentioned here. I will be glad to answer any question of the subject of religion and Islam.

Very interesting Mr. Czeslaw. I agree with you, as do 5 billion other people in the world, but I’m afraid that no Muslim here will be able to “discuss” this matter in a civilized way. They will only try to criticize you as person and call you names. It is their standard operating procedure. But just laugh about it like I do, because it is sooooo funny, it’s like they are programmed robots — someone criticizes iSlam, they call you nasty names and make threats against you. Every time, like clockwork. But as you know, when they criticize you personally, that is when everybody knows that you’ve WON the debate. That is a truism throughout history — but their history is still 1,000 years behind, so that’s why they can’t figure those things out yet.

After killing a pastor in Sulawesi, Islamic militants burned down a church yesterday. The Indonesian government also announced a delay on the executions of the Bali bombers. This is what happens when Muslims stick together…

It is hard to keep track on Islamic terrorist acts around the world. Is there any one who have some records of it all?

In one moment Muslim will bow down to Allah, then a minute latter this same Muslim will cut someone’s throat. They will even record on camera the beheadings posing with the panties/underwear on their heads, screaming Allah akbar, like bunch of mental patients in some abounded mental institution. Also, if you can notice, they use western evil made cameras to record their Islamic faith – beheadings of hostages, they parade with kalishnikov’s automatic guns, they wear Nike, Adidas and other western evil made pants, shoes, shirts, etc. They do their kidnaps in western evil made automobiles and trucks. They use evil western made explosives, etc.. Is there any thing in this world which was design, created and produced by Muslims/Islamists? I am not talking about crude oil, here either.

I hope, that one day there will wake up one Palestinian Hero, who will stand up for Palestinian people, and he or she? will say: This is enough of this bullsh*t. We are free Palestinian people, we are citizens of this world. We will educate our Palestinian children. Our Palestinian children are same like the children of Sweden, Poland, Canada, Brazil, Japan, Germany, Spain, Philippines, Australia… They deserve to have better lives than suicide belts around their childish bodies. Our Palestinian children are smart and intelligent as any normal kids in other parts of the world. And I, Czeslaw believe that this holds the truth!

We will educate them, so their lives will be better than ours. Our future is in our LIVE children and not in blurred vision of Islamic fanaticism. We, the Palestinian people will no longer be the meat for Islamic meat grounding machine.

I think, that PakistanI would benefit from approach like this as well. Who wouldn’t?

So, far for last 700 years Muslims and Islam are proving to us all, that they are not willing, and do not want to live with others in peace. Start with the conquest of Persia to Spain to the GENOCIDE and mass murder of the Armenian people in 1915-1923, till today’s Islamic GENOCIDE in progress at Darfur. It is all about spread of Islam and Islamic terror and horror wherever and whenever possible. Where is any “esteemed Islamic scholar” who will comment on another Islamic GENOCIDE in progress at Darfur?! Degen, where are you with your big Islamic mouth? Darfur, is just another Islamic principal, like in case of Mr. De Silva, Mr. Riwu, and Mr. Tibo in Indonesia, where Indonesian attorney general Saleh, made his own mouth nothing more than an asshole full of stinky Islamic crap. Hey, attorney general Saleh, would you mind to comment on this, please? I hope you will rotten together with Arafat, Hitler, Stalin and Husseini in one piss hole.

We here in Europe are taking Muslims in, to integrate them in our communities, in our lives. We provide free social benefits, medicine, food, shelter to them. And what they do? The next day, they open the mosques in our countries and our towns and preach hate toward us!
The Islamists here in Europe are terrorizing us here, they bomb us, they spread horror in our towns. So, Indonesians do not feel single out in this Islamic nightmare.

After killing a pastor in Sulawesi, Islamic militants burned down a church yesterday. The Indonesian government also announced a delay on the executions of the Bali bombers. This is what happens when Muslims stick together.

You’re so proud of being the lowest form of life on earth. I doubt real Muslims are willing to admit you’re one of them, but hey, I never know.