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Topic Review (Newest First)

07-29-2014 12:19 AM

selzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by my boy diesel

well and then there are all the things that go wrong like bitch dies because an afterbirth was retained
or a puppy was retained
or she gets an infection after they are born
doesnt produce enough milk
gets an infection in her breast
the list goes on and on

but i suppose all your dogs whelp just fine on their own then selzer?

According to Dr. Hutch, they usually won't have a problem if an afterbirth is retained. I have never counted placentas. Usually the bitches eat them while the pup is coming out. And the bitch's body does usually reabsorb what is left within.

I have had dogs drip for an ungodly amount of time after a whelping. But no, there is nothing the vet does about that. By the time you might have problems because of a retained puppy or placenta, it is too late for a clean out shot. Some people like the clean out shots, others do not -- they can be terribly dangerous without checking first for a stuck puppy. I don't like them.

Yeah, I have needed c-sections with Odie. But, no, no infections, the milk has always been fine, even with the litter of 10, no need to supplement. I have worried about the milk quality, but it wasn't a problem. If you supplement with calcium and then break that off, you are likely to have milk fever, calcium deficinency than if you let nature run its course.

I haven't had a problem in a mammary gland. I have seen the pictures in the book. I do not mess with her teets when she is lactating and I have never had a problem with them. Could happen. I know what to look for.

The point is, the vets have NEVER, EVER given any sort of a crash course in what might go wrong or what to watch for. I guess it is up to you to get a book and figure it out, and if you have any questions about problems you are experiencing it is time to consult a vet.

If you just say, "Hi Dr. ---- , we're in the family way. We should have puppies on such and such of a date. " He's going to say, "Good, call me if you have any problems." And unless there is a serious problem in the works, he isn't going to give you his home number.

It's not like having a baby where they measure the belly, and take your weight and do ultra sounds and determine the sex, and make sure that everything is going right and you are taking the right vitamins.

07-29-2014 12:02 AM

my boy diesel

well and then there are all the things that go wrong like bitch dies because an afterbirth was retained
or a puppy was retained
or she gets an infection after they are born
doesnt produce enough milk
gets an infection in her breast
the list goes on and on

but i suppose all your dogs whelp just fine on their own then selzer?

07-28-2014 11:57 PM

selzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by my boy diesel

selzer the vet should have been consulted pre-breeding to have the necessary health tests done and at the very least to rule out brucellosis
should one not have a working relationship with their vet when going into a breeding program?
what if the bitch needs a c section when she starts whelping??
anyway if storm asked their veterinarian how to tell how many puppies there will be the veterinarian will explain how - and when-- that is determined i am sure

Brucellosis testing is often required when the breeder goes outside their own breeding animals and uses an outside stud. It does not need to be done. It is something breeders do to protect their animals from outside infections. It is a simple blood test, and not something you need to consult a vet for. You can take the dog to the vet clinic and tell them you want the dog tested for brucellosis and they draw the blood, send it out, and relay the results.

Testing for genetic diseases is often done at a specialist or a different vet who is known to throw good prints. Again, it is not something you consult your vet for. You go to the clinic and say that you want them to do OFA Hips, Elbows, Thyroid, Cardiac, etc. The vet does not tell you what you should test for, they will show you the x-rays and give the opinion and then give their projection for what the OFA will say. But this should definitely be done prior to the bitch being in heat.

Once the bitch is in heat, there is no need to consult a veterinarian at all. If it makes you feel better, you can call your vet and let them know when your bitch is likely to whelp. If you suspect issues, you can do progesterone testing to pin point the exact time of ovulation. But don't rely on anything.

You can do all that, and then after your bitch is definitely having issues, and you call to say you are bringing her in, THEN they tell you the vet that can do the surgery is out of town. So you have to scramble anyway.

And, you can go back and back and back for progesterone testing. And when the date of the C-section comes up, you call to set it up, and your vet then tells you they need more progesterone testing. The one vet said, they do not ovulate all at once -- well, that isn't what Dr. Hutch says -- 12 hours. Seems they did not continue to test until she ovulated, but only until she had one of her surges, and then MOST bitches will ovulate within.... So you go back and go back, for more progesterone testing, and you STILL have to scramble at the end and go to the other place for the C-section because your vet still isn't certain about the timing.

I would have been better off, leaving the vet totally out of it, and just going off the the farther place when labor started -- she needs c-sections.

And if there is no reason to think the bitch will need a c-section, you can do all the progesterone testing. But it is unnecessary.

The breeding to whelping process, as well as the raising of puppies can all be done without the help or consultation of the vet. And if there is a problem, then no amount of consulting a vet in advance is going to chance the fact that you need a vet now. If there is a problem, you need a vet.

To determine whether the bitch is pregnant or the number of pups, you need to go to the vet. This is not necessary. Many breeders swear by it though. Other breeders think that the testing and stress and exposure is harmful. If the bitch is pregnant, she will whelp or she will show signs of trouble, at which time, they will x-ray, they will ultra-sound, they will do progesterone testing if you take her to the right place.

Should a breeder have a working relationship with a vet to go into a breeding program? Why? Are vets suddenly knowledgeable about specific breeds, their lines and their genetics? Are they experts about which animals should be bred and which should not. If I told you some of the stuff vets have told me, like -- well, yes we could x-ray her hips, but you can tell she doesn't have a problem, having the hips x-rayed only means you can ask more for the puppies. Yeah, No. The vet is not one that you need a working relationship with to go into a breeding program. To own a pet -- yes, good idea. Good idea if they accept that you are somewhat knowledgeable, but not for breeding advice.

07-28-2014 11:36 PM

my boy diesel

selzer the vet should have been consulted pre-breeding to have the necessary health tests done and at the very least to rule out brucellosis
should one not have a working relationship with their vet when going into a breeding program?
what if the bitch needs a c section when she starts whelping??
anyway if storm asked their veterinarian how to tell how many puppies there will be the veterinarian will explain how - and when-- that is determined i am sure

07-28-2014 10:29 PM

Castlemaid

I removed a whole wack of posts that were completely UN-helpful and insulting to the OP.

I am NOT impressed by the arrogance of some posters. EDUCATE, and use your time on the 'net wisely to help others, sarcasm does not make you out to be somewhat better than another.

ADMIN.

(Is there a full moon coming up or something? Lots of RUDE posts lately . . . )

07-28-2014 09:49 PM

selzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by my boy diesel

ask your veterinarian
you should have been consulting with him or her all along

Could you elaborate on this? Could you please say why a veterinarian should have been consulted all along?

07-28-2014 09:47 PM

selzer

It's better to start your own thread.

The answer is dependent on how you will determine. I think that you can find heart beats with ultrasound by 4 weeks -- could be wrong about that, though. And it is very difficult to get an accurate count that way, at least that young.

If you are waiting to do an x-ray, you should wait until the bones are calcified, usually it is best to wait until about the 56th day -- from ovulation, not from the breeding date. At this point the pups are better formed so you will be able to get a decent head count etc, also with proper procedure, they say the x-ray will not be harmful to the puppy's development, but they make the humans wear lead aprons or stay out of the area, so the older the pups are the better. Too young, you will not see them properly anyway.

Gestation is 9 weeks from ovulation -- not breeding date. The majority of the growth is in the third trimester, and for much of the pregnancy a bitch's system can resorb a puppy. Which means, if something happens to the puppy, or the bitch aborts due to stress or what have you, she may or may not resorb the dead pup or puppies. Which means, she could have been pregnant at 4 weeks along and not be pregnant at 9 weeks.

Best to wait.

07-28-2014 09:46 PM

my boy diesel

ask your veterinarian
you should have been consulting with him or her all along

07-28-2014 01:51 PM

Storm695

Breeder

[IMG]IMAG1286.jpg[/IMG] I have a gsd who is now 3 weeks pregnat when can you tell how many puppies she will have.

04-24-2014 12:03 PM

Freestep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merciel

It's in the first response to this thread.

It's too much work to click a link.

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