DUP: tides and momentum

I blogged a few weeks ago that the DUP ship seemed to be steadying, albeit at a much lower position in the water than it was previously. Since that there have been a couple of additional holes have appeared: one from the latest revelations by the BBCs Newsline; the other, larger one, from Robinsons rather ill judged and highly ill tempered response. These wounds themselves are unlikely to be fatal. However, it is almost impossible to escape the conclusion that whatever the outcome for the DUP from the Westminster elections, high tide for DUP support has passed, and some time ago at that.To go back briefly to the 2005 Westminster and 2007 Assembly elections, the DUP were at their high water mark, capturing all the unionist majority seats except for North Down where Peter Weir was defeated by an almost 5,000 vote margin and of course South Belfast where Jimmy Spratt lost to Alasdair McDonnell by just over 1,000 votes. They might have hoped to reverse both of these defeats at the next Westminster elections. In the 2007 Assembly campaign the story was relatively similar with the gradual erosion of the UUPs position continuing. After those election victories, the DUP web site had a rather nifty little graphic which showed the DUP being the largest party in one election after another: that graphic disappeared immediately after the last European election and now to borrow a bit of semi Ulster Scots it will no come back again.

Once the DUP might have hoped to use this Westminster election to polish off the UUPs Westminster representation and move towards the culmination of Robinsons political dream: a single united unionist party under himself. Now,despite the utter incompetence of the UUP, (I hope the subject of a future blog) it is highly unlikely that the DUP will manage to hold all nine of its Westminster seats. Indeed now the DUP would regard the loss of only one or two as a relative victory. Whilst it might indeed be a fair showing considering the dire straits the party was in, in the immediate aftermath of Irisgate, it would still be a significant defeat. The DUP could quite easily lose South Antrim and Strangford to the CUs despite the utter chaos which has characterised practically every part of the CU build up to the election. Whilst there would be sensible explanations for the loss of both of these seats (McCreas relative unpopularity and difficulty gelling with that seat and the Irisgate factor respectively) when people had forgotten about the exact reasons for the election results, there would still be the simple fact that the DUP came out of the election far from having delivered a death blow to the UUP; rather with a UUP which would be strengthened in Westminster representation.

Clearly an even worse psychological blow would be Jim Allister taking North Antrim. The conventional wisdom is that Ian Paisley junior should hold the seat and indeed his fathers majority is highly impressive (18,000). However, the DUP have lost the incumbency factor, Paisley junior is far from the most popular of individuals and the taint of odd property transactions is far from unrelated to Ian Paisley junior. Also of course the DUP position has shifted vis a vis Sinn Fein in government and other touch stone issues to traditional DUP supporters.

Even if by some chance the DUP do manage to hold all their seats (something which even the most loyal DUP stalwart must gravely doubt and all the bookmakers statistics would argue against) it would still not represent a significant advance in their position. To advance they would have to win a seat and since they have opted out of North Down that has become even more unlikely requiring as it does the DUP to win South Belfast as well as holding all their seats. Even that fantasy would still almost without doubt see the DUP losing percentage share of the votes in the seats they fight. It is now inconceivable now that the DUP can replicate their 30% share of the vote in the 2007 assembly elections. That matters because unless they can have a realistic hope of getting about 30% in 2011 there is no way that many of their MLAs can feel confident of their seats and, hence, many of their political assistants, special advisers etc. can have no certainty of continuing their current positions.

The only ways by which the DUP can keep their current high tide of representation is if the CUs and / or the TUV disappear and that seems highly unlikely. Despite all the CUs recent disasters they seem remarkably difficult to kill. The DUP might hope that if Jim Allister loses in North Antrim the TUV will go away: again that seems highly unlikely. Finally of course the unionist electorate might suddenly decide that actually the DUP is completely and totally right, completely forget the assorted scandals and en masse come back to their direction of political travel prior to 2007. That seems almost completely impossible no matter how much the DUP want it to be so.

The current election is most unlikely to see the DUP explode or vanish suddenly beneath the political waves. However, unless they change something their greatest triumphs, achievements and power are behind them: thus far they seem to have been completely unable to solve these problems; they seem unable even to recognise that this problem exists. Whilst they will not sink any time soon political momentum is ebbing from them. Peter Robinson is as unable to stop that tide from ebbing as Canute was from stopping the flood tide. Many now suggest that Canute (a deeply religious man) was acting out a parable and knew full well that the tide would come in. Peter Robinson seems less aware that his is going out.

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About Turgon

Turgon you really are losing it old boy constantly clutching at straws if this if that.You simply do not know which way the electorate is going to go and you know it.Thats why your blog constricts itself the electorate have caught on to your dinosaur pressure group which all of us know offer us nothing no future nothing.How many MPs will TUV gain??

Turgon

Paul,
The subject of the blog is how many DUP MPs will there be after the election. If you think 9 you are in a small minority. If you think the DUP will hold to their previous share of the vote you are in an even smaller minority.

This matters because they need to hold that sort of share to stay where thy are: not advancing; the tide not coming in but not going out.

If you think the DUP have not lost support since 2007 you have long since run out of straws to clutch.

pinni

After of couple of years of unsuccessfully fighting elections the TUV remains a one-man-band lead by an unprincipled politician. One minute Allister is against negotiating with republicans, the next he is part of the DUP negotiating team which is engaged in talks with the leading republican party, and then he reneges and reverts back to original position.

Forget all the money he made on the side while a Euro MP – legal fees or whatever and taking personal advantage of the generous travel allowances – more importantly: Would the real Jim Allister please stand up!

slug

The DUP surely deeserve to be weakened by the financial corruption stories.

Does anyone intelligent out there really believe Peter Robinson is as innocent as he claims about the £5 deal? Seriously?

Does anyone respect a man that acted like such a ruffian in the Seamus McKee’s interview?

A family where Iris moralised obnoxiously from the bible regarding gays in public, and then in private took a personal slive of £5,000 in cash in regurn for setting up loans from devlopers for her teenage lover? The greed. The hypocrisy.

Where Peter Robinson’s treatment of his wife during the suicide attempt seemed far from compassionate.

A party that has Ian Paisley Junior – a man who tries to decieve us about his dodgy relationships with developer Seymour Sweeney by saying he “knows of him” .

pinni,
The legal fees smear is new, I grant you. It is a smear since Allister was paid for work he had done prior to becoming an MEP. I do not know what line of business you are in but strange as it may seem I am sometimes paid months later for work I have done and I am sure barristers are no different. Jim has answered these claims here.

The Euro expenses are the same flat rate expenses all MEPs were and still are paid for travel. Europe does not reimburse expenses on a pound for pound (or Euro for Euro) basis. It gives a flat rate. A stupid system I grant you but hardly the fault of an individual MEP.

Anyhow trying to fling mud at Allister for expenses is pretty silly considering it simply highlights the DUP’s expenses. In addition that trick (attacking Allister over expenses) was tried last year and the European election were hardly a stunning DUP success were they.

Anyhow maybe the topic of the blog (the DUP’s election chances) could be kept to. Tell me do you think the DUP will have 9 MPs at the end of the election? Will they have about 30% of the vote in the seats they fight? If not will that still be a victory and if so how phyrric will it be?

pinni

I must say, Turgon, I do admire your tenacity. You remind me of Churchill’s quote when he said “Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm.”

The TUV has certainly had its fair share of failures in the past couple of years, but unlike Britain in WW2 there is no sight of or hope for any change in TUV fortunes in the near future. You’ll be looking at failure for a long time to come, starting with all the seats that the TUV will contest in the upcoming election.

orly

“The DUP could quite easily lose South Antrim and Strangford to the CUs”

South Antrim you have a shout for. But Strangford? Seems safe enough for the DUP to me

Drumlins Rock

Radio Ulster was doing interviews in East Belfast today, most of those interviewed said they had voted DUP and most of those said they were not going to this time. Maybe the BBC is conspiring but I def got the feel from those interviews that even Peter is in trouble, I would certainly add Gregory into the mix as well, I think Lesley could well do it in EL.

Allister may survive the Westminsters but gradually wither on the vine after the Assembly elections if he only picks up a couple of seats and a relatively poor performance for UCUNF – perhaps only picking up one seat (probably the likeliest outcome?) – will also see the UUP coming under further pressure from the DUP.

The DUP have survived and may indeed thrive not because of political acumen but rather incumbency – they are in the right place at the right time when the last piece of Peace Process fell into place and now any moves towards Unionist Unity which now seem likley will also probably be on the DUP terms.

Turgon

pinni,
To be fair I prefer political analysis to spinning. However, at the moment with an election and all I had better do a bit of spinning.

I am far from convinced that the TUV will lose all the seats it fights. I am even less convinced that the DUP will hold all 9 of their’s. Do you think the DUP will hold all 9 and keep up its share of the vote?

The one thing I agree with you on is that the TUV came into being at the wrong part of the electoral cycle for them. They have had difficult elections (for them) thus far: namely single council seats and Europe. In multi seat elections, however, they are much more likely to do very well. Now maybe if (and it is a big if) the TUV fail to get any seats they will vanish. However, there is no evidence that they will and their is no evidence that that cohort of the unionist electorate which opposes the current dispensation at Stormont will vanish. Hence, even if you are correct and the TUV gain no seats this time, it is highly likely that they will gain a significant number of seats at the next elections which are due: the 2011 assembly elections. That tallies in with the real subject of the blog namely that the DUP were at high tide in 2005 and 2007 and that they (the DUP) are looking at failure or at least reduced success for a long time to come.

RepublicanStones

Turgon any idea why this – Jim Allister European Election Manifesto 2009 is being linked on the TUV website?

BTW you honestly believe Vancey can take the seat from Robbo?

Chris Donnelly

Turgon

You’re right to note the singularly impressive performance of the DUP in 2005.

If you recall, that election was predicted to produce a two-party monolith. However, Sinn Fein failed to deliver anything like the decisive blow to the SDLP that the DUP delivered to the UUP.

In some ways, that has proven beneficial to the UUP as, faced with oblivion, they have sought to carve out a somewhat radical alternative in the form of the Tory link. Now, of course, they’ve utterly failed to sell that properly and have made a right mess just when circumstances and time conspired to present them with an extremely fortuitous electoral backdrop for an election.

Consider this: the 2005 Locals delivered a DUP dominant as the largest unionist party on 19 of the 26 councils, with the UUP the largest on only 5 councils.

If it is the case that 2005 represents the high water mark for the DUP- and I think you’re correct there- just what do you envisage for the Assembly next year?

Apart from Allister in North Antrim, where else are TUV candidates likely to secure election to the Assembly?

Turgon

Moderate unionist,
Posts crossed. A possible scenario. However, if the CU’s pick up South Antrim they are also likely to get either Strangford or FST. I know FST is not really a fair comparison but long after the what whys and wherefores are forgotten it is likely that the CUs will be able to claim at least 2 seats at the end of the elections. Hence, despite their utter incompetence they will be likely to survive.

Allister might wither but people have been saying the TUV is past high tide repeatedly. In reality the voting percentage for them seems pretty constant.

Hence, I suspect the DUP will have fallen back a little after this election. Then in 2011 they will lose a little more. Unless they have a radical change in direction or can form a real unity party with the CUs / UUP, I think they have a significant problem.

Drumlin’s Rock,
I am always very dubious about vox pops done by the radio (TV even worse). However, Robinson might have trouble but it is difficult to say. As to East Londonderry and Lesley I doubt it. Did he not attack the Orange Order recently? Believe me I am from there and that is the nearest thing to political suicide one can do as a unionist in East Londonderry.

Turgon

RS,
I will answer and then go to bed.
I think David Vance for East Belfast is a big ask but East Belfast is now a bit difficult to call. I used to live there but it has been a while so I have only a little local knowledge. I do not think Ringland is doing stunningly well and apparently Long’s people are happy. Overall, however, if Ringland starts to falter badly it may help Vance more than Long. In addition there are additional known unknowns (to coin a phrase). We do not know what Dawn Purvis’s vote will do. Also we do not know how badly Robinson’s property dealings and outbursts on TV will play.

Yes Robinson must still be the favourite but I think expecting him to walk it may be highly optomistic. If he were to lose then it could fall to anyone of David Vance, Naomi Long or Trevor Ringland but I am begining to wonder if Ringland is the least likely of the three.

That is as close as I do to predictions (closer than usual) so I am now off to bed.

slug

“As to East Londonderry and Lesley I doubt it. Did he not attack the Orange Order recently? ”

He?

orly

Chris,
“Apart from Allister in North Antrim, where else are TUV candidates likely to secure election to the Assembly?”

North Down is always an outside chance. Everyone knows the vote fractures in weird and wonderful ways over this direction.

slug

Turgon

I am a North Antrim person. I expect Alistair to do well. IPJ not so popular. Not seen as the same as his father. Seen as a chancer. Alister lives locally unlike IPJ. CUs seen as a wasted vote in North Antrim. All to play for.

Turgon

slug,
Sorry re he not she. Too late: I am off to bed (again).

slug

Turgon – I wonder if you really know what you’re taling about. Lesley a he indeed.

PaddyReilly

MU

I just dont think you understand the nature of the Stormont electoral system. Basically anyone with any following whatsoever is guaranteed a seat when there are six going per constituency.

Wherever in the current Assembly the DUP has two or more seats, the TUV will inevitably take one of them, making it a respectably large party, especially in the Eastern part of the province. It is more or less inevitable that they will win 11-13 seats.

The negative side of this, for the TUV but not necessarily for anyone else, is that they will never be able to kill off the DUP, as might happen in a Westminster type election.

As for the Westminsters, well, no DUP seat is now safe: Lagan Valley perhaps and East Antrim are the safest. Elsewhere they could be displaced by the TUV, UCUNF, Alliance and, much less likelily, by Sinn Féin or the SDLP. It all depends which party has the best rally.

Garza

Just to let you guys know.

UCU are now favourites according to Ladbrokes to win South Antrim from the DUP.

Garza

Sorry should I say UCU are favourites to win South Antrim outright, they are 8/11, DUP are evens. Ladbrokes.

aquifer

The sectarian ulster nationalist DUP are the ideal complement to Sinn Fein’s narrative, and have estranged Northern Ireland from Britain.

Their verbal aggression used to give confidence in the dark days, now it is just background noise distracting us from the next planning scandal.

The previous incompetence of the Ulster Unionists has unnaturally extended their dominance, but now it must fade.

I say 1 or 2, you say 11 to 13. Perhaps it will be somewhere in betreen and perhaps you will be more right than me – but my point is that unless the TUV can show it is growing or consolidating it will probably fade – as that is what tends to happen to smaller Unionist parties and that will be to the DUPs benefit.

Turgon,

as Stormo settles down and perhaps education gets sorted it will be very dififcult for UUP or TUV to keep banging on all the time that the sky is going to fall in and that we are all doomed. They need I fear some type of crisis either resulting from marching going badly wrong or the dissers doing something really spectacular or the police/MI5 doing soemthing really stupid.

most Ulster political parties can take a hit, absorb the pain, appoint a replacement and resume their trade. You only have to look at the Iris saga to see that. Even if Adams and Robinson bite the dust in the coming months, over their respective ‘scandals’, Mc Guinness and Deputy Doddsy will step into the breech and the same old show will stay on the road.

No, what does it for Ulster parties is to get trapped on the wrong side of the arguement like the UUP are as we all watch on at their embarassing attempts to find a find an identity for themselves. They resemble an awkward teenager trying out different images, one day its non tribal UCUNF and the next it voting pacts with the DUP and the OO are their bestest friend again and one day they are pro-agreement and the next day they are being scolded by the US adminstration for trying to wreck Stormo whilst all the time looking over the shoulder at a confident DUP who seem to brush off any crisis they encounter. Similarly the SDLP having like the UUP done a lot of the hard work in building the Stormo castle have seemingly sat down on the grasss outside to have a rest and didnt seem to notice or care or do anything about SF going in and enjoying the benefits.

Now that the DUP (and SF) are sipping at the top table something really big will be required to shift the feckers.

Maeglin

Turgon,

It is indeed funny how you simply dismiss Jim Allister’s record on expences etc as irrelevant. That’s remember there are some key facts involved here;

a. Jim indicated how many flights he had got and the European Parliament paid him EURO1200 for each return flight regardless of cost. If he got flights for £400 why did he simply NOT submit the details of his next flight to the Parliament and he wouldn’t have been given the full amount. Therefore ensuring he was only recieving around what he had spent in stead of EURO1200 each time??

b. Jim admitted in the court, and it is included in the judgement that he had worked on at least 17 civil cases as a Barrister after he took his seat as MEP. This is despite speaking out against double-jobbing. He therefore did indeed work as a barrister after becoming MEP. He has admitted taking payments for his work as a Barrister while he was MEP.

c. he has admitted that he employed 3 of his family members (wife, daughter and son) some full-time and some part-time etc through his MEP allowances

d. he has made claims about not taking all the expences and benefits available to him through Europe but doesn’t seem to want the public to know that he received durng the first years he was MEP substantial payments for legally aided work he had done prior to becoming an MEP . This is not to say he worked as a criminal barrister during this time but surely relevant when he is asking people to congratulate him on not taking all he could get in Europe??

e. Many people out there would find criminal legal aid fees disgustingly excessive. This is tax payers money yet we aren’t allowed to know what they charge for a 1 hours work, a day’s or week’s work to the tax payer?? Why doesn’t Jim break the mould and let us know exactly what fees the taxpayer is giving to defence lawyers and what for?

ding dong

Folks, the sad reality remains that all our MPs are crap – the majority of the candidates we are being offered are crap and there is no one to really vote for – only people to vote against!

In any normal society the recent revelations about land purchases, links with property developments, even with those you only know about, cover ups of child abuse, expenses claims etc would be enough for normal politicians to call it a day but in NI no such problem, arrogance and contempt for the electorate means that those who should go in shame will brazen it out.

Due to the “we don’t care whether we’re represented by murderers or crooks” attitude of the voters means that there will be little change and all this hubris will be forgotten in 4 weeks when the posters come down but NI will not be properly or ably represented at the national parliament and nothing will change.

Vote for crap – get crap – be all in all we seem happy with that!

union mack

I predict a pattern to emerge in this election, on the unionist side:

DUP remain relatively unscathed in all constituencies, except North Antrim, where Allister will do ok and ensure more than a quota for the assembly election next time round. UCUs hold their share of the vote, and gain South Antrim. TUV do not win enough votes in any constituency to have a guaranteed quota for the assembly election, save North Antrim.

ps. despite the general consensus that Hermon is a shoe-in, I think that North Down is actually too close to call. Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

NMCNSA

I believe DUP vote will be down right accross the board! C&U to take S.Antrim, Strangford, East Londonderry and Lagan Valley.

dundonald voter

the thing that really gets me with regards ian jun apperance on the television is his aggresiveness bring it on i am in my enemy’s terriortory things of that ilk. but i have a thing to ask mr agressive paisley which is your family have a history of big talk and fight but when your father was eligible to fight in the second world war he never seen service. everybody knows during the troubles big ian hid behind the old dear’s and got the odious name of the grand old duke. be agressive when your meant to be house of paisley

Harry J

HOw much did jim receive for all the flights he took, how many did he actually spend and what happened to the difference?

harry surely with someone with the intellect of peter robinson could explain why he bought a piece of land which was worth 5 pounds (according to peter thats all it was worth) and to obtain the land it would cost £2000 in solicitor costs and land register. why would you expend £2000 to get a piece of land worth £5. now if it was no financial benefit to him could you ask him to explain this

dundonald voter

harry please ask peter why his wife spent £1600 taxpayers money on a bed for their london apartment. Did kirk not like the less expensive ones?

dundonald voter

again harry you havent asked the man your electioneering for in north antrim why he continues to claim £57,000 per year for a property with the market value of £19,000. please answer harry because you want everybody else to answer simple questions but conviently you wont ask my simple ones

dundonald voter

and i see your still redirecting people to the anti tory posters about education and natinal health service. please ask mr paisley junior did his father pay for his education when he attended queens. and is iris receiving private care in london. i actually feel sorry for you harry your out campaingning for a man who if he fell ill would be most certainly treated privateley and who was educated at queens paid for by parents when these luxuries will never be afforded by yourself. can you not see the irony of it all

dundonald voter

harry also ask junior why he always wants to fight when his family havent really got a history of fighting when they are legitameley able to do so. ask ian junior to ask ian senior why he never signed up for service when he was the age to do so for the last world war. they are intelligent men they should be able to answer you

Harry J

oh dear DV, is the Tory campaign not going that wellfor you.

Or maybe your TUV, poor jim.

ding dong

Harry for the record how much did IPJ get from his father’s westminster allowance, while he was a MLA and a junior Minister?

Look as always with the DUP recently as you point the finger there are 3 (at least) pointing back!

dundonald voter

ask him also about his father knowledge of william mcgrath

dundonald voter

harry roll on the elections i have a feeling you are going to be greatly disappointed

Harry J

well DV im quietly confident

dundonald voter

dup went i9nto the election for europe with all this and they thought they would coast through. harry the last couple of election the by election in dromore and the european have been unmitigated disasters. i think your optimism is extremely optimistic

Harry J

after this election, Jim allister will be nowhere to be seen, and Reg Empey will have gone as leader of the UUP, Ucunf will be dead and the DUP / UUP can work together on unionist unity

dundonald voter

well hopefully the dup will be quiet after the elections because the returned voices wont be as numerous

dundonald voter

peter robinson will be gone after the elections

Harry J

DV – dup still had most first pref votes than any other unionist party.

These election will be the same. Outside of NA tuv will not exist, TOry vote is a mess.

dundonald voter

and please answer the question about ian junior why is he claiming £57,000 for a property with a market value of £19,000

dundonald voter

answer the one about the five pound piece of land

dundonald voter

why do you aviod answering these harry maybe a satisfactory answer to them would give your confidence more ground. (if you could answer them that is)

dundonald voter

harry diane dodds thought she would be returned as the largest vote for europe

Harry J

DV – DUP is the largest Unionist party and will remain so, the UUP is crumbling and the TUV is non-existant outside of NA.

DUP will take south belfast.

dundonald voter

harry answer the questions i have asked you. why do you ask everyone else questions about their party but wont answer any yourself. (go on put some more silly posters up)

the dup and their support has dropped in the last elections they have contested. lets see if they are the largest unionist party after the next 2 elections.

By the way the way they talk about direct rule can we be sure they are still unionist and ulster nationalist

dundonald voter

did you ever find out why paisley senior never fought in the second world war

dundonald voter

please answer the questions harry that i have posed you about ian senior ian junior and peter the punt

dundonald voter

and if you do then well agree to answer your questions

dundonald voter

and the candidate in south belfast mr spratt. please ask him why he charged the taxpayer £25,000 from finaghy crossroads to stormont. now thats £70 per day taking into consideration that he went to stormont 365 days. could you explain harry seeing you are an intelligent man

dundonald voter

either the taxi man was taking him on or the candidate was taking the mickey out of the taxpayer

ding dong

HArry, the only thing the DUP will take at this election is a trouncing – yeah I believe they will retain the majority of their seats, unless the rumours come out and then all bets are off but failing that they’ll retain their seats, but thier vote will be well down and Peter will have tospin hard to explain – remember the Euro election, the DUP were forecasting a DUP victory, the demise of Allister and the wiping out of the UUPs – just the same as you are predicting now.

THe reality was somewhat different, the UUPcame home first, the TUV got double or treble what the DUP said they would get and Diane was trounced – thats the reason the DUP no longer has the Euro election results on their website.

This time round it will be the same again, the UUP will improve again, the TUV will astound the critics and possibly win NA and the DUP will see their vote drop dramatically and have to spin hard to explain!

dundonald voter

your confidence in this up comming election harry is breath taking. but its the usual dup arrogance we are the largest we are the biggest we are the people!!! you have only been the largest party since 2005. five long years.
but this we are the largest biggest best will not wash with the electorate. your only as good as your last election and the dup were not great in that.

dundonald voter

ding dong they are already making my head spin!!!

dundonald voter

is harry actually from planet earth????

dundonald voter

when will he even try and answer a question?

dundonald voter

harry why did ian junior say that he only knew of seymour sweeney when nolan asked him the question. why did he say that when at that time he was asked, seymour was purchasing the ballymena premises of £57,000 per year rent for him. would he allow a slight aquantince to purchase a £500,000 property for him?? i think we deserve to know harry and seeing you are canvassing for him you could get us the answer easy enough.

Garza

DV if your looking for honest answers from the DUP you will be found wanting I’m afraid.

dundonald voter

well garza i understand that fully but why do dup people like harry come on blogs and demand everything from other parties and not expect the same transperancy from their own party??

how could peter the punt come on yesterday and call for openess and transparancy with regards to others when he has never been himself?? how can these people do this?

Harry J

THe reality was somewhat different, the UUPcame home first,

er no they didnt, the UUP came behind the DUP onfirst prefs votes

The UUP will improve again………

well the combined uup/tory vote was actually DOWN in the euro elections

it really doesnt take a lot of effort to find these facts out

joeCanuck

dundonald voter,
You are persistent, I’ll give you that. But you won’t get any answers ever from Harry, and you can’t even embarrass him, because he is a troll. As for his yarn about being out canvassing with Ian, take that with a pinch of salt. His mammy is unlikely to let him out after 6:00pm.

HOw much did Diane Dodds receive for all the flights ahe took, how many did she actually spend and what happened to the difference?

dundonald voter

come on harry answer please just one question. stop worrying about other parties look out for your own!! bottom line how many votes did the dup lose in the european??? did ian the brave not get 192,000 at one european election? my how have the mighty dup fallen. when you talk about other parties poor performances look at your last outing harry. one word disaster

dundonald voter

well the combined uup/tory vote was actually DOWN in the euro elections

at the last election harry did the dup vote go up? (european) why are you so worried about the uu’s performance and how their vote dropped when your vote took a hammering!! as is aid harry i would be worrying about my own party and not thinking bye bye reg and all cos it could be come back reg flyaway peter!!

Harry J

as is aid harry i would be worrying about my own party

i agree you should worry about your own party

dundonald voter

but will you harry cos i would be vety worried if i was a dup voter or politician.

if nothing else i have a funny feeling that people will give others a chance in this election and none of this usual stuff about we are the only ones who can look after n irelands ineterest. the late david ervine said in 1986 that unionist politicians were only looking after theiir own self interest. if only he had lived to see the expenses robinson claimed and the lobbying done for property devolopers.

dundonald voter

by the way harry ian junior said in the infamous leaflet that he was criticised for putting north antrims interest on a lot of agendas. afraid not junior you were criticised for putting one persons interest on the agenda to the detriment of the natural beauty of north antrim because you wanted to have seymour build in every inch of north antrim. seymour is only one vote in north antrim think on that harry. by the way why did he lobby so much for seymour harry? was the premises he bought in ballymena a good bargain?

dundonald voter

harry answer one question please just one please

dundonald voter

were is harry?

ding dong

harry – for the record

the first Unionist elected, in fact the only Unionist elected at the European elections was one Mr Nicholson UU/Con – Ms Dodds was deemed elected having failed to reach the quota.

Therefore first Unionist Home – Jim Nicholson.

As for UU/Con vote down – actual vote down yes but percentage vote up (accepted marginally)

DUP vote down in actuality and in percentage terms a crash (massive drop loss of 43% of the DUP vote)

Now of course harry, you could continue making a twat of yourself but when in a hole stop digging.

But I do hope you are a DUP staffer or at least a key election advisor because if you cant even read the European election result then the General Election will be a disaster for you – but then Peter the Punt and Jeffrey (Not so much watch with mother)Donaldson completely misread the Euro election so it could happen again!!

dundonald voter

does the dup stand for democratic (with a small d cos we know they arent that democratic) ulster natinalist party.

or hopefully the electorate will decide that they are the d ownright u npalatable (maybe unprincipled) p arasites ?

dundonald voter

ding dong that is exactly what i have been trying to point out to the bold harry about worrying about other parties drop in vote. if anybodies vote is a mess its the dupers. is he really so dense (pardon the punt sorry pun) that he does not realise this or is he really harry the ostrich and has he a real big neck. (we know he has a brass one)

dundonald voter

and when will harry answer a question without putting up yet another poster. answer questions harry not put up posters

dundonald voter

the reason they misread the european election ding dong is because they are so out of touch with them. i mean how many people in ballybeen would buy a pen at £500? heres one for you harry many people in east belfast have lost their jobs recently and are offered £80 per week income support. the robinsons buy pens (yes pens for £500!) like marie antionette when the people are starving let them eat cake.

dundonald voter

as for the man harry is campaingning for. a family who have recently lost their jobs are asked to live on £3800 per year. now thats to feed clothe and heat themselves. now contrast this with ian jun cliaming £57,000 per year just to rent (well we know its not to rent but its to buy the property completely paid for by the taxpayer and then the property might just be transfered out of paisley junior’s father in law into his own) yes harry only the rich can afford private medical care and be sent to higher education (ian sent to queens paid for by big ian iris in a nice we place in london cost of £1000 per day) oh only the rich.

dundonald voter

yes only the rich would buy a piece of land worth a fiver (no financial gain) and cost them £2000 in solicitors fees and land register (cos the land is only worth five pounds) because they havent anything better to do with their money than to buy five pounds worth of land and pay £2000 to own it. must be great harry to able to throw money about like that. (thats providing the land was not worth more than £5)

Pigeon Toes

is there a reason why the posters have given up on grammatical norms

Procrasnow

All this talk of defamation and courts

2 free presbyterians going to court 1 against the other. What is the world coming to?

Never ceases to amaze me how ‘Christians’ can ignore the word when it doesn’t suit them, but offend others with the word when it suits them

1 Corinthians 6:5-7 (King James Version)

5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

something fundamentally wrong with this sect. Not my words the epistle writers words ‘there is utterly a fault among you’

dundonald voter

procrasnow you have to remeber the dup free p’s only use the bible for everyone else but themselves. (you only have to remeber iris abomination comments while indulging in a wee bit herself) listen to what harry j says and that will give you a gist of this strange people. everyone else is liars ask about everyone else’s faults but dont mention your own. everyone else’s charachter is called into question but tyere own isnt no matter how bad. heres another scripture for them why do you look at the mote in your brothers eye when you cant see the beam in your own

dundonald voter

example ian junior puts in what allister got paid after he quit his legal work so why didnt he put in the £57,000 3 times over market value on the leaflet?

well when the dup get another good hammering at the election ill bring few we posters up for you. by the way harry you should go on you tube and type in punt at clontibret you will get real funny things on that. maybe even see him in a nice wee red beret as well. thats when he formed a turd force or something to defend ulster. i never knew the punt was a modern day cuchulan.

dundonald voter

type in paisley and you will find the punt cheering at the top of his voice when paisley the brave said to the ruc officers dont come crying to me when they burn you out of your homes. maybe thats why the punt never fought for the retention of the police reserve they threw him out of stormont and the punt has a long memory. lucky for east belfast the people here have memories to.

Just for your information,I wouldn’t be surprised in Allister was getting paid for work done years before becoming MEP. I may not like the man, but this is an absolute smear. You simply cannot submit your legal aid fees unless you are working. He wasn’t practising as a Barrister at the timehe was an MEP, so it is impossible for him to have been submitted fees.

He should take Paisley to court for it. Perhaps he was trying to remind people that Paisley seems to be in and around the courts on a regular enough basis

Driftwood

Harry J/Paul/???/ various DUP sock puppets

Why do you hate the British so much? We (or in your case They) pay for this region of the UK.
‘Little Ulster’ is not a free lunch, as much as the DUP and their (your) SF Allies want it to be.

Biting the hand that feeds rarely leads to a good end. Unless you have pocketed enough off the NI (UK) taxpayer that you do not really care. Like the Paisley/Robinson/McCrea/Dodds family dynasties.

Only rarely do The Sheep look Up. But when they do…..

dundonald voter

breaking news……..didnt think i’d ever see the day when the dodgy unionist party wud be chased out of braniel estate! robinson canvass leaflets torn up and thrown in his face…… there seems to be a real threat emerging in the east from ringland (conservative) and vance (traditional ulster unionist) agree?