Paul Krassner

Paradigm Shift Interview by Philip H. Farber

Paul Krassner is one of our journalistic heroes here at Paradigm Shift. As an editor and publisher,
he created the seminal underground 'zine, The Realist, which set a standard for pungent
satire and "liberated communication." As a cultural activist, Krassner was one of the founders of
the Yippies, with Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin, a member of Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters,
and a fighter for free speech, abortion rights, and numerous other civil liberties. He is the
author of several fine and funny books, including Confessions of a Raving, Unconfined
Nut, and Winner of the Slow Bicycle Race.

PHF: Do you think is it currently easier or more difficult to get countercultural
ideas into the media?

Paul Krassner: I think it's easier, because the line between countercultural and
mainstream is
becoming increasingly blurred. One reason is technology. It used to
take decades
for information to rise from underground, but now it's almost
immediate. Another
reason is competition. I once predicted that controversy would become a
commodity.
Indeed, the mainstream media constantly check out the alternative media
because
they're hungry for fresh ideas. Ironically, the "overground" press
sometimes beats the alternative press to the punch. Don't forget, it
was the San Jose Mercury News that broke the CIA/cocaine story, not the
weekly Metro; it was the Los Angeles Times that reported the four oil
companies who had interest in Somalia, not the L.A. Weekly. Also, the
taboos have changed and violation of
those taboos are more smoothly absorbed by middle America. Witness
everything
from the satirical Onion shooting up the cultural ladder to alternative
medicine
taking up a complete issue of the AMA Journal.

PHF: Okay... we like technology here... How much have you explored the Internet as
an outlet for your writing? Do you perceive it a viable form for underground
media, or do you think we're being swamped with commercial interests?

Paul Krassner: At this point I've written just a few things for publication on the
Internet. It's possible that when I retire The Realist after 7 more issues, I
might start a web site, if only because I would have such a perfect title--The
Virtual Realist--but meanwhile I've found going online to be an extremely
valuable research tool. For example, I was assigned to write a review of a
re-release of an old comedy album by Lord Buckley for High Times, and just needed
a couple of facts, which I was able to search out in minutes. Also, in terms of
receiving a "manuscript" or corrections with immediacy, e-mail has been a boon.
It's all electronic magic to me. Sure, everybody wants to make money in
cyberspace, but that doesn't preclude underground media, since there's always
choice. As the inventor of the web said, it's comparable to scenery, because you
can be glad if not overwhelmed that there's so much of it available, but you can
decide where you want to go and what you want to see. In that sense, it's
democracy in action, with equal opportunity for individuals and corporations
alike. Word of mouth--or keyboard--is the purest form of advertising, and it's
free. Can you tell I'm a convert?

PHF: What prompted you to retire The Realist after all these years?

Paul Krassner: When I started in 1958 the goal was to put myself out of business by
helping to liberate communication by example, and though it would've
happened without me, it pretty much has happened--for better and/or
worse--so in effect The Realist has served its purpose. In fact, there's
so much liberated communication now, I should stop before I become a total
psychedelic relic. Besides, there are a few novels I want to spend my
time and energy on. I haven't written fiction before, although humor is a
form of fiction, or at least extended reality. Essentially, I've been an
investigative satirist. I said to a friend who's a novelist that it's a
challenge because you have to make up stuff. He replied, "But, Paul,
you've been making up stuff all your life." And I said, "Yeah, but that
was journalism."

PHF: What exactly do you consider "liberated communication"?

Paul Krassner: Fortunately or unfortunately, reportage on the whole Monica Lewinsky
story is an example of liberated communication. So is a recent column by
Alexander Cockburn on how the mudslide tragedy in Nicaragua were actually
brought about by humans--that is, the CIA installed Somoza who caused the
peasants to move to areas where so many people and their homes were buried in
mud. Discussions on Politically Incorrect are liberated communication, and
gawd help us, even Howard Stern fits into this category. Stephanie Miller and
Harry Shearer on their radio shows do too. Certainly the Internet has
liberated communicated, geographically as well as in content. Of course there
is a plethora of propaganda in the media, but there are so many more outlets
for counter-propaganda now.

PHF: What, if anything, do you think is the overall societal outcome of so much
liberated communication?

Paul Krassner: I guess this goes back to the notion/hope of information rising to the top
so
much faster than it used to. On radio, for instance, Jim Hightower's commentary
and many programs on the Pacifica network. Hightower writes a book and then
appears on CNN. Robert Scheer was first published in The Realist, and now he's a
syndicated columnist. Other syndicated columnists like Molly Ivins write stuff
that once might have appeared only in the underground press. Not that the
information results in immediate action, but it's a necessary start.

Theres a poignant opening to the movie Living Out Loud,
where the Holly Hunter character is watching the horrors on TV news and her
voice-over keeps asking, "What am I gonna do with all this information?" I know
when I read a newspaper, I find myself saying, "Well, that's out of my hands," or
"Oh, that's good." There won't be total peace and justice and compassion in my
lifetime, and everybody does what they can. The causes are myriad, from the
rainforests to the whales, from reproductive rights to alternative energy
sources. Sometimes one gets thrust into a cause--such as Mothers Against Drunk
Drivers--by tragic circumstance. Personally, I can hardly wait for Paula Jones'
one-sentence book: The President showed me his penis and asked me to kiss it.

PHF: In "Confessions" (and I heard you say this at Starwood, too) you talk about
the laughter of the audience at Carnegie Hall being what woke you up at age 6.
I once asked George Carlin how he gets away with some of the shit he says...
he responded by saying that when someone is laughing, it's easier to sneak a
new idea in. What's your take on that altered state called laughter?

Paul Krassner: When people laugh, their defenses are down--as opposed to being
lectured
at--so it's possible for them to hear a truth in the guise of humor without the
usual resistance. Hearty laughter produces endorphins, so it gets you high
without drugs. Also, you breathe in six times as much oxygen as normal
breathing. 20 seconds of laughter is goes back to when we were kids and made our
parents laugh--which they wouldn't do if they were angry.

PHF: Can you give an example of a particularly good or unusual laugh you've
provoked?

Paul Krassner: When I performed at a luncheon of the Los Angeles County Bar
Association, I
said, "I'd like to begin with a moment of silence, so that you can think about
your clients' problems, and then you can make this a billable hour."

PHF: I had a professor in college who put forth the idea that all humor involves
pain. I was hard-pressed to think of an exception (for instance, the above
involves at least some theoretical pain on the part of the lawyers' clients).
Do you think all humor involves pain?

Paul Krassner: No. Although... Mark Twain said that there is no laughter in Heaven.
And
Henry Hazlitt said that humans are the only species that laugh because we're the
only ones who see the difference between the way things are and the way they
should be....But I think it's all a matter of scale. An tickle is actually a
gentle form of pain, and you can take that all they way up to humor in the
concentration camp, as Begnini does in the movie Life Is Beautiful. But back to
my original no. I always resist when college professors generalize. Humor can
relieve tension, but tension isn't necessarily painful. Consider your various
bodily functions that function on tension. Now *that's* funny.

PHF: When you are doing stand-up or speaking, what's the most gratifying or
satisfying response you hope for? (Other than laughter, in general, that is.)
What, if anything, would you like the audience to take with them?

Paul Krassner: I like it when I surprise myself, saying something I hadn't planned to say.
I
like when somebody in the audience says something that's funnier than what I've
said. What I like for the audience to take with them is an altered perception
that was tied to the laugh.

PHF: In the '60s the counterculture had some issues that polarized it and
inspired activity. What do you consider rallying points for whatever
counterculture there might be as we approach the year 2000? Additionally, what
is motivating *you* to action these days?

Paul Krassner: The issues remain the same--reproductive rights, artistic freedom,
environmentalism, racism, gender preference, corporate welfare, poverty,
animal
cruelty--insane priorities where militarism takes precedence over
education, where
prisons take precedence over logic. Personally, my form of action is
communication. And my current causes are personalized because one
friend with
AIDS and cancer will be tried as ringleader of a conspiracy to cultivate
and
distribute medical marijuana, and another friend has decided to end her
life on
December 26, and so I will be writing about both because that's what my
contribution, to be responsible to whatever talent I have.

PHF: Is that Peter McWilliams? What's the present status of the case?

Paul Krassner: Yes, it's Peter. The trial will be next year, but we have no idea yet.
A motion is being filed next month to allow him to take his medicine until
then. This case is the war-on-drugs equivalent of the Chicago conspiracy
trial about Vietnam protesters.

PHF: I'm interested in your creative process -- When, where and how do you create
your stand-up and written material?

Paul Krassner: Whenever an idea strikes me, I'll make a note of it. Could be while
listening to music, taking a shower, taking a shit, walking, eating, watching
the news. On stage, something can start as a one-liner, then evolve during
performances, and end up as a story. That's how "I Snorted Cocaine With the
Pope" developed. And later I published it. But when I write something from
scratch, I'm not like other writers who can just sit with a blank page or
screen and dive right into it. I need to make some kind of rough outline.
Usually I know how I'll begin and how I'll end, and then all I need to do is
fill in the middle in some kind of logical, dramatic order. In my satires
dealing with public figures, there was no need to describe them, but in writing
a novel with fictional characters, it's a whole new challenge.

PHF: What's the jist of your novel?

Paul Krassner: The novel is about a contemporary, controversial comedian who goes to
prison
for a marijuana bust, makes a deal there to kill a snitch to avoid a gang
rape, gets released, becomes successful, then gets charged with the murder,
and defends himself in court. It's dedicated "To Lenny Bruce, who always
wanted to do his act before the Supreme Court."

PHF: What's the title and when should people
be looking for this novel? And what other Paul Krassner products or events
should we be on the lookout for in 1999?

Paul Krassner: The title of my novel is "Court Jester" and it will take me at least
another year to complete it. Meanwhile, in Spring 1999 Seven Stories Press will
publish my book "Impolite Interviews" and Mercury Records will release my third
album, "Live From the Neo-Pagan Festival." In the fall, High Times' book
division will publish my compilation, "Funny Dope Stories."

You can order Paul Krassner's books by sending check or money to:

Paul Krassner
Box 1230
Venice CA 90294

Prices are as follows:Confessions of a Raving, Unconfined Nut: Misadventures in the
Counter-Culture, $25. The Winner of the Slow Bicycle Race: The Satirical
Writings of Paul Krassner, with a foreword by Kurt Vonnegut, $24.The (Almost)Unpublished Lenny Bruce (a collection of his articles stories, columns, bits
and
pieces), $10.
All three books for $57.

A subscription to the final 7 issues of The Realist is $14.

Buy this stuff from Paul, because it's a lot cheaper than ordering these titles from
amazon.com