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^^^^^^^Happy ,clappy is never going to help me to anything other than sarcasm .It sounds to me you are lucky to have found a Good Therapist who goes at your pace and can tolerate all that you bring to the sessions . And its helpful to me to remember that posts are a snap shot off the here and now for a person not a life position . My post was a reply to the whole thread .

You started what , I think , one off the useful real posts , which is one off the things I get from aidsmed , so thanks. Any chance off smiling back at the sports guy?

Best wishes

Michael

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"If we can find the money to kill people, we can find the money to help people ." Tony Benn

Maybe it would help everyone to take note that clean-unclean is offensive in this forum but is an ordinary paradigm in some cultures and mindsets. Also there may be first language / second language issues here.

I just wish that you wouldn't judge me based on my feelings that I have about myself while i'm depressed.

my VL went from UD to 480 and i'm feeling a little depressed and yes i'm feeling not clean because there is now more viral activity inside me. and I came here to get some support. I dont know how this has anything to do with some people trying to lecture me on how im suppose to feel. I don't get it.

it's like telling someone who is feeling worthless and about to kill themselves that he should be ashamed for feeling that way. wtf?! what are you accomplishing here?!

It's not very nice to push someone who is already on the edge of collapse...

Hi Scared2b . I apologize to you for the insensitivity that was shown to you in this thread and the other one as well, I wish I was online at the time so that I could have stepped in and stopped it before it went this far . This situation is inconsistent to what we strive to be as a forum, a safe place to learn to live with HIV. We are taking measures to make sure that a clear signal is sent that this kind of thing will not be tolerated .

It would help in the future if you use the report button when you feel bullied or threatened as you did and then simply not respond any further so that we can take appropriate action .

thank you so much for being so supportive... I felt a little better yesterday but today I was still depressed and I had to be strong enough to go to work and talk to my patients (who are children) and not only pretend that I'm fine but to help them with their issues. I went to the bathroom and cried and then back to work again... it's really tough...

then to come here to talk to my support group and a couple of people are going on about how I should be perfect. well i'm not.

but i really appreciate you guys being there for each other and hopefully we all feel better... I just got home now and I have to study some and then this weekend i'm working for 24 hours straight, I just hope that I feel better before I start my long shift... i really hope.

While it was fair enough to bring up the point about thinking of oneself as "unclean" as being self-destructive, you really should have left it at that rather than continuing to press the point and making assumptions about scared2be's medical practices. You also followed scared2be into another thread for the sole purpose of further denigrating him. It's just not on.

You've left us no choice (Jeff and I have been discussing this) but to give you a 28 (four week) time out, given your other recent time-outs.

Scared2be,

While I understand why you continued to respond, I need you to understand that hitting the report button and ignoring any further posts from the person who was upsetting you until a moderator could deal with the situation would have been the more appropriate course of action. Continuing to respond in cases like this only serves to escalate the situation. Thank you for your future cooperation.

Ann

I really appreciate it. I don't believe in silencing others and that is why I wanted him to get his frustrations out as well. we are all here to support each other and I am certain his anger is coming from his experiences with some healthcare workers and doctors... so maybe in yelling and bullying me, would make him feel better...

I know that I didn't say anything to upset him or offend him. I was depressed (still am) and even when I come to get some support here, it just so happened that I had to find someone who is willing to attack me for my fucked up feelings about myself...

but thanks for your soothing comments... I know that I'm not a bad person or a dirty person, but there are times that we all feel weak and need each other's support.... xoxo

I just wish that you wouldn't judge me based on my feelings that I have about myself while i'm depressed.

my VL went from UD to 480 and i'm feeling a little depressed and yes i'm feeling not clean because there is now more viral activity inside me. and I came here to get some support. I dont know how this has anything to do with some people trying to lecture me on how im suppose to feel. I don't get it.

it's like telling someone who is feeling worthless and about to kill themselves that he should be ashamed for feeling that way. wtf?! what are you accomplishing here?!

It's not very nice to push someone who is already on the edge of collapse...

Mecch was not attacking you, far from it . The term clean is offensive to many of us that lived with HIV so you must realize we can recognize and support you in your pain but that does not mean we wont tell you the truth in a respectful way while we do it .

Using the word clean to describe a HIV negative person is to infer that those of us with HIV are dirty and that hurts people too . People are just trying to help you realize what stigma is, even internalized stigma .

We can support you and not judge you for feeling dirty, we can try to help you find a better self image but we ask that you in turn realize that others have feelings as well and the language we use can contribute to those feelings being hurt and offended whether you meant offense or not .

Mecch was not attacking you, far from it . The term clean is offensive to many of us that lived with HIV so you must realize we can recognize and support you in your pain but that does not mean we wont tell you the truth in a respectful way while we do it .

Using the word clean to describe a HIV negative person is to infer that those of us with HIV are dirty and that hurts people too . People are just trying to help you realize what stigma is, even internalized stigma .

We can support you and not judge you for feeling dirty, we can try to help you find a better self image but we ask that you in turn realize that others have feelings as well and the language we use can contribute to those feelings being hurt and offended whether you meant offense or not .

I'm sorry that you feel that way. but if someone is following me all over the forum to respond in rude comments, i think that is called attack. He was upset that I felt that way BECAUSE i'm a doctor and he called me some horrible names.

I said nothing to offend him! i had a feeling about MYSELF, i have control over that much, i hope. i never said that anyone is clean or not clean! I am not NEGATIVE myself. I've been positive for two years and felt clean this whole time... I had a blip in my VL and I didn't feel clean as in clean of viral activity. BUT there is a time and a place to lecture someone about words... you dont start fighting someone when they are depressed.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. but if someone is following me all over the forum to respond in rude comments, i think that is called attack. He was upset that I felt that way BECAUSE i'm a doctor and he called me some horrible names.

I said nothing to offend him! i had a feeling about MYSELF, i have control over that much, i hope. i never said that anyone is clean or not clean! I am not NEGATIVE myself. I've been positive for two years and felt clean this whole time... I had a blip in my VL and I didn't feel clean as in clean of viral activity. BUT there is a time and a place to lecture someone about words... you dont start fighting someone when they are depressed.

We have already addressed the things that happened yesterday so we have done all we can about that .

I was specifically only addressing why the word clean and dirty hurts YOU because you brought it up again ... we want to support you on your way to feeling better and part of supporting a person is sometimes telling them things they may not want to hear at the moment . I used to feel the same way as you do and I began to get better when it was brought to my attention that is was OK and natural to have those feelings but not OK to tell MYSELF a hundred times a day I was dirty or damaged .

If you cant find the value in what I'm trying to impart to you at this time then lets move on to something that will help ... today is a new day and you are not being attacked .

We have already addressed the things that happened yesterday so we have done all we can about that .

I was specifically only addressing why the word clean and dirty hurts YOU because you brought it up again ... we want to support you on your way to feeling better and part of supporting a person is sometimes telling them things they may not want to hear at the moment . I used to feel the same way as you do and I began to get better when it was brought to my attention that is was OK and natural to have those feelings but not OK to tell MYSELF a hundred times a day I was dirty or damaged .

If you cant find the value in what I'm trying to impart to you at this time then lets move on to something that will help ... today is a new day and you are not being attacked .

i know that we all been through this and so did I two years ago, i'm sure my old posts are somewhere. and since then i've felt great, sexy and accomplished. i'm just having a bad week because of what happened to my labs and seeing the viral load blip. and thanks to u guys I already started to feel better today, i even found a couple of friends on my private inbox that I'm happy about, so u guys are wonderful.

I just don't have anyone to talk to aside from my doctor and you guys, and so please forgive me when I talk about my feelings raw and uninhibited about myself as i'm feeling them.

I felt better but you know, today the public health worker coincidentally called me on my way home from work and she was very judgmental and I'm again distressed from that conversation. The way she was talking to me was really degrading. so i wanted to call back and talk to her supervisor but its closed now until monday...

it's tough time for me, i was good until this week... i just need a hug maybe two...

I am not going to quote anyone, because many of you have expressed raw emotions, coupled with the complications of mental health issues. I have been dealing with chronic depression for decades and can empathize with the challenges that mental illness can present. I have learned how therapy and medication can succeed in helping me to tame my depression. I have learned that feelings, are neither "good" nor "bad", they just are. I now know that it is the actions, that arise from certain feelings that pose the greatest challenge.

I also know that mental illness, often has no outward appearance at all and for those so inclined, they can succeed in suppressing any betrayal of their agony. While I realize that we each must find our own way, I encourage folks to tell others when the darkness is closing in on them.

No one can read our minds and though we may think we have everything under control, sometimes that is just a lie we tell ourselves for whatever reason. There is an unending fountain of support here, but that support comes with a cost and the cost, is: understanding.

There is no shame in admitting when life has you overwhelmed. Although there have been some hurt feelings in the exchanges, feelings fade and are soon forgotten. What I would ask of all of us, is when you feel the weight of the world bearing down upon you, please do not assume that we know how heavy that burden may be.

Having experienced mental health issues myself, I know how the mind can play tricks and thoughts can become distorted and disjointed. I know the "feeling" when something is wrong inside my head and I need some support.

All I ask, is that when any of us gets that "feeling", that you tell the outside world. I promise that no one will think any less of you and you will help us to understand just how challenging your situation may be.

I'm sorry that you feel that way. but if someone is following me all over the forum to respond in rude comments, i think that is called attack. He was upset that I felt that way BECAUSE i'm a doctor and he called me some horrible names.

I said nothing to offend him! i had a feeling about MYSELF, i have control over that much, i hope. i never said that anyone is clean or not clean! I am not NEGATIVE myself. I've been positive for two years and felt clean this whole time... I had a blip in my VL and I didn't feel clean as in clean of viral activity. BUT there is a time and a place to lecture someone about words... you dont start fighting someone when they are depressed.

Hello. Please be clear about who is who my dear. I called you no names and never attacked you and followed you nowhere.

And if you read my post about the meaning of clean and dirty, it was a meta analysis and more or less discouraged people from assuming anything about you and how you live your life, do you job.. Rather suggested we ask such questions directly to each other, and deal constructively with whatever anyone is feeling here.

You got attacked my dear, but NOT BY ME.

Thank you for this clarification.

« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 08:42:22 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Hello. Please be clear about who is who my dear. I called you no names and never attacked you and followed you nowhere.

And if you read my post about the meaning of clean and dirty, it was a meta analysis and more or less discouraged people from assuming anything about you and how you live you life, do you job, rather suggested we ask such questions directly and clearly and deal constructively with whatever anyone is feeling here.

You got attacked my dear, but NOT BY ME.

Thank you for this clarification.

Hi Mecch,

I never said it was you. why would i say that you attacked me. actually right now you put a smile on my face for the first time in a few days lol. you've been very supportive, I have no idea why you would think i was talking about you. i was talking about jkinatl2.

I just wish that you wouldn't judge me based on my feelings that I have about myself while i'm depressed.

my VL went from UD to 480 and i'm feeling a little depressed and yes i'm feeling not clean because there is now more viral activity inside me. and I came here to get some support. I dont know how this has anything to do with some people trying to lecture me on how im suppose to feel. I don't get it.

it's like telling someone who is feeling worthless and about to kill themselves that he should be ashamed for feeling that way. wtf?! what are you accomplishing here?!

It's not very nice to push someone who is already on the edge of collapse...

« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 08:53:08 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I just wish that you wouldn't judge me based on my feelings that I have about myself while i'm depressed.

my VL went from UD to 480 and i'm feeling a little depressed and yes i'm feeling not clean because there is now more viral activity inside me. and I came here to get some support. I dont know how this has anything to do with some people trying to lecture me on how im suppose to feel. I don't get it.

it's like telling someone who is feeling worthless and about to kill themselves that he should be ashamed for feeling that way. wtf?! what are you accomplishing here?!

It's not very nice to push someone who is already on the edge of collapse...

I don't see that I said anything about you attacking me?! I never said you're attacking me because you weren't. anyways no worries... we're not here to argue... we are all in the same boat but sometimes some of our boats are sinking and we need each other's support. xoxo

I don't have any constructive input but felt compelled to respond anyway. I was diagnosed less than 2 weeks ago. I feel the exact way that NY does and it's hard to deal with. I am a healthcare provider just like scared and I've been having problems with meds making me dizzy, etc. and applied for FMLA and a day later was placed on admin leave because they are afraid I could cause exposure to patients. I appreciate everyone's input and views on here and sad that people have to go through with this but glad I'm not alone. Thanks to everyone for posting, it gives different perspectives to everything and in some cases hope and others not so much. I'm trying to have an attitude of it will be what I make it but there is a lot of uncertainty there and factors that may have other say so.

In the end, I felt that the boundaries may have been too defined for my level of comfort, so we just stopped getting together. I felt like there were better options for me. I'm just sharing how and what i felt at the time. I don't think I was alone in that way of thinking.

Well now that you are HIV+ its best to evacuate these gut feelings that HIV is some sort of metaphor, or that having a virus has something to say about someone's ability to love and be loved and to make a good friend, partner, etc. Sure plenty of people think like that. But going forward its a poison for you to think like that. You do seem to over identify with the crowd or the way people do things and an HIV diagnosis is a pretty good instigator to really create your own terms. We can't change everything, or at least not quickly, about the non HIV+ population and the way they do things and their world views. Sometimes we just have to make our own terms and feel fine within them.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

NY and everyone that replied - Thank you for posting this. I just tested positive and could have written the exact same post. I know it's not the healthiest way to look at it but for the moment I'm in the same place and it just helped to hear someone else say it. Over time I think my outlook will improve but I am just disappointed in myself, I've made it that much harder to find someone to share life with and the stigma remains from criminalization for non-disclosure to even just sub-conscious rejection by guys who say they don't mind. I am still incredibly lucky to have the life and health i enjoy today compared to so many less fortunate but it's hard not to beat yourself up about the choices I've made and the risks I took. It changes your whole identify of who you thought you were and it's going to take a while to reset my self-esteem but I can already see some good coming out of it in the decisions I make and the way I treat others.

i'm not cut out for that type of rejection. i know myself very well, and it doesn't seem logical. The chance of rejection outweighs acceptance by a large margin. The chance of lamenting my decision is even greater. so the two things I risk: (1) rejection, which is greater than the possible reward, and (2) regretting, post-facto, the decision to disclose in the first place. I have to come to terms with the fact that I am not comfortable with it. I've always heard that at some point, people reach a point where they must let their dreams die. I won't go so far as saying that I've reached that point, but I am realizing my limitations.

Lots of closeted gay people say the same thing ( not talking about HIV), but, when they come out they find themselves to be in the wrong, One's way of thinking can change anytime/over the period of time.