My PDwife going from awesome to mean to just being there!

To my counselor, I have explained my complete history before my PDwife and also my PDwife's nice to mean shift over time. While my PDwife hasn't been emotionally abusive for about 6 months, she does the minimum to interact. She prepares dinners. Then, she just continues with her studies. After telling my counselor all of this, I said that considering how she is now, it is hard to trust her, and it is thus hard to forgive her for her past actions towards me. Some might say to enjoy it while it lasts. Some have asked me why I stay. I just don't know, if I should trust her, because she might blow up again when she is in a bad mood. My counselor asked if she has apologized and asked for forgiveness. She only apologized after I was really upset. Then, she reacted by quickly saying she was sorry. Nevertheless, she has never asked for forgiveness. So, he said that her apology is hollow and was only given to shut me up.

So, if my PDwife's conversion is real and if she doesn't ask for forgiveness which knowing her will never happen, I am with the burden of deciding if this relationship is with me. If I were to leave right now, she would play the innocent poor me and say that she provided a lot. If I stay, it probably is going to stay the status quo, although I have suggested that we do more things together, but she is busy with studies and work. In fact, she isn't going to some family events next month due to her studies.

Needless to say, from her being awesome to mean and then to preparing meals and not being emotionally abusive, it is extremely confusing. Also, there is a part of me that is really angry with her when all I have ever given her is love, support, care, financial help for her and for her family.

So, do you folks trust your PDs? Have they apologized and also asked for forgiveness?

I don't trust my stbxuPDh one bit. He lies and he's not a genuine person. By that, I mean he doesn't think or care about others, just himself. So he acts in his best interests only. To me, a genuine person cares about others.

It's a cycle. My 13 year old son actually pointed this out - I was too fogged to see. stbx goes through phases - relative calm, anger, then nastiness, repeat. My son sees it as his dad's way of trying different things to get what he wants from us. If the "calm" act doesn't work, move onto getting angry, if his anger doesn't work, become downright nasty and hostile. That doesn't work, try calm again. It's almost as if stbx is stuck in that endless loop, as if it's all he knows. Right now we are in an extended period of calm, and to be honest it's really freaky, for lack of a better term. He's trying very hard to be on his best behavior because of the divorce. Thing is, we have glimpses where we can see the anger peek through, and we can actually watch him rein it back in. It's scary. We can't trust him because we know whats under the false calm exterior.

I have only received flip "sorry about all of that" type of apologies from stbx. He has written long emails and notes "explaining" some of his behaviors, which I sure was very difficult for him to write. That being said, he called that long explanation an "apology" and demanded I "get back to normal" because he "apologized." Excuses do not equal an apology. stbx has never asked for forgiveness, he's demanded it. In his mind, he's said he's sorry so that should wipe the slate clean until next time. I also don't believe he's truly sorry if he repeats the same behavior over and over again. It may be a different permutation of that behavior, but the root is still the same.

I am going through what you suspect your wife will do if you leave - woe is him. He's a good provider, I've never wanted for anything, he can't understand why I would break up the family for no reason. Sure he's bipolar, but it's "well-managed." He's been here to support the family physically, psychologically and emotionally (I almost choked when I read that one). It's all lies, but be believes them firmly. Forget the fact it's on record that my son is having issues stemming from his father's behaviors (he claims I coerced DS into saying those things), that he keeps going on and off of his medications (he claims he follows a strict regimen), that I have proof he's having an affair (denies even when faced with the facts). The list goes on. They view themselves as faultless. I have asked this question before and still don't know the answer. Is it an act, or do they truly believe their lies?

I'm sorry you are going through this, and am glad you are in counseling. It helps a lot.

Whiteheron, thank goodness you and your son can see through the facade that your stbx is doing! It is almost like PDs create their own chaos, make everyone as being at fault, believe they own act, and they are astounded that they are found to be guilty for creating the mess in the first place. UGH! Bottom line, they can't be real. They act. It's almost like if they were to be real, that it would be almost too frightening. They can't be close to anyone, because others would know who they really are. In a manner of speaking, they are walking on eggshells in order to guard themselves.

In the meantime, we nonPDs get duped into their act. It's almost like we are a part of a movie or a play in which we are the true, innocent bystanders. It is when we realize that we have been manipulated, that we find this website and begin to become better. I am just in the realization stage, and it truly is difficult for me to believe she would be so cruel and so selfish. In fact, just last night, a new phase of her PD came out. She began criticizing a couple who could be making better health decisions, like eating better. She criticized them before taking a shower. She got out and continued with her criticisms of them. Then, she left my room and was humming away, like if she were the all powerful, all knowing without ever imagining that people can make wrong decisions, but that doesn't mean to degrade them and to put them down so that she can feel better about herself. BTW, she complained during that same conversation about a scab on her arm, like it was the worst thing possible that could ever happen to her. Give me a break! She wants sympathy from me while putting down others.

Samuel,PDs rarely apologize and even more rarely ask for forgiveness. It seems to me each relationship is balanced by what each person in it gets out of it. In my R/S with my uPPDw what I have gotten out of it has been worth the energy and time I put into it. I think this is a question each of us can ask ourselves; is what we are getting out of the R/S worth what we put into it?

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How people treat you is their karma; how you react is yours. Wayne Dyer

“The only person educated is the one who has learned how to learn and change.” Carl Rogers

The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Do you understand?Capt. Jack Sparrow

with my exW, it was the same situation. It's basically a silent divorce, and it's horribly painful. I didn't trust her. She showed no love for me. It felt like I was barely tolerated much of the time, and had disdain others. Along the way the glimpses of sweetness and love were reduced until they were finally non existent. She would say that being upset about living in that situation was my problem, and that fact that I was upset pushed her further away. If asked, there was nothing she would have ever done differently, so she certainly would never ask for forgiveness.

It's impossible not to build resentment, your anger is not necessarily a bad thing if used to drive you to make the right decisions for you. If it builds though and you yell & fight, be prepared for her to turn the tables and use that as the new reason for not being a loving partner. It's a no win.

My updw seldom apologizes and doesn't ask for forgiveness. Why would she when everything is my fault (feelings not facts)? The apologies are usually for simple things like bumping into me accidentally. Apologies for really screwing up are non-existent (no pun intended). I have never heard the words please forgive me, or anything close to that.

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"It is better to be careful 100 times than to get killed once."Mark Twain

I think that in many cases the "awesome" phase is a matter of them reflecting self love that they are experiencing as a result of being loved by the non partner. they play act to seem like what we want, but the love that radiates is real, its them reflecting our love of them. that is why it seems to fit so well.

this lasts as long as they value us and deem us to be an adequate source of supply. We have no or little control over this valuation. its about what they are feeling and is not based on facts. what we actually do or say is not as important im this equation as we natually think it is, as its about them not us.

At some point it seems the pds will vascilate between valueing and devalueing us. This happens as a result of them moving toward a new or several new sources of supply.

They have a commitment to us, they are socially and morally bound to certain constructs and yet they are moving on. this often brings them great cognitive disconance and internal conflict as they atempt to balance their need for supply with their need to maintain their false image.

this brings on quilt and anger and frustration. hence the nasty phase. Additionally their superior stance once we are devalued brings contempt toward us.

once they overcome the above conflicts within themselves, they detatch. Yes, I believe pds can detatch also. this is so they can reimagine themselves within the new constructs. ie a cheater, or a divorsee, or...... often on this board we read where they project these things onto the non, by becoming the victim or insisting the non is cheating, or needs therapy and gaslighting the non.

Once they are over the damage to image and have reinvented themselves so to speak, they engage the new supply sources and we as nons mean little to them. Once replaced they often do not even need the supply from negative interactions, so abuse may subside.

I think they stay if it benifits them. Especially if we let them have their cake and eat it too.

I have read in many threads here about pds leaving or getting divorsed and its like they turned a light switch. its simply over for them and they have a new partner immediately, or at least have little remorse or dont grieve the relationship past that point. its simply done for them when they aquire the new source, and complete the devaluation.

I think that the greater the devaluation, the less of a chance of being able to re-establish oneself as a supply source for the pd.

At some point at the end of each cycle one has to evaluate as a non, if there is really a chance of ever becoming a supply source again,(notice I am not sayong loved again) and if its worth it. it seems that once the game is known, what the pd had to offer is viewed differently by we as nons who are Out of the FOG.

My pd has never directly apologized for direct abuse against me. he has never shown contrition. He is upset about being labled as this or that, but that is a selfish approach to the subject and far from an apology.

I dont expect I will ever get my apology. I have better behaviour to live with much like Samuel does, but the price is an emotional/intimacy deficit.

there are no easy answers and no one size fits all,however, one thing is likely a constant ,the pd wont change significantly. and it will never be awesome again.

we all have to in these cases decide if being there is enough. at the same time we have to realize it might not beenough to the pd.

just because they are being there now, does not mean they will in the future. what happens for example when they no longer need what the current arrangement offers. for example, what comes after a new career is established and income increases and an extra apt is no longer needed for classes out of town, and savings are all gone.

1footouttadefog, you are a very wise person who has dealt with a lot and has helped so many of us on this website! You are being very realistic which is what we all need; yet, for me personally, how the PD is as you have described is very disheartening, that we are considered a supply. Indeed, that is exactly what happened with my PDwife. I was a supply after my parents passed away, and I received a good size inheritance. It is all gone now, and now that I am not her supply of basically Monopoly money like the game, she has gone from being awesome to downright being mean. My counselor is trying to help me sort out my emotions.

One of the things about me is that I don't like to hurt people, because that is not in my nature. People deserve to be treated with respect and care. Our PDs, my PD, do not have that humane trait, although they will practically impose it upon us. Thus, for me to leave her right now would be a way of hurting her, at least in my way of thinking, and I cannot fathom doing that. Yes, I have to work this out with my counselor!

Not hurting someone is one part of the equation. Not being hurt is another.

Accepting what is real and what will never be real prevents hurt.

Imagine its like having your hand on a burner and getting burnt because your pd asked you to put it there. you had it there because you trusted. you put it back how many times because you trusted again. again again. the heat was turned on when you relaxed. as a trusting and hopeful non you persisted in keeping there refusing to accept they were once again turning the burner on. then when things were too painful you once again had to retreat and accept the abuse had recurred.

at some point you quit playing. no I am not putting my hand there. now you have scars and bad memories to process. you have to deal with living with someone who did that and cares not that they did.

In the mean time you can heal and grieve and remain unavailable to the game.

For me learning why I was willing to play and trust for so long was useful. Not playing and accepting that the other party will always have a game or strings attached keeps me from being hurt.

my pd is disabled and we have under age kids. we are largely at peace, and I accept we can be no more than roommates. having lower expectations reduces disappointment.

if I had no kids and my pd was younger with two careers options in hand, I might feel a great deal less concern for hurting them by ending things, than you seem to be feeling.

I am reminded of Charlie Brown and Lucie. I would not advise him to leave the friendship, but rather to quit playing football with her. I would asvise him to quit all games where he consistently gets hurt. If his not playing is a deal breaker for Lucie then so be it. I think Charlie Brown would need to be concerned about the financial abuse games Lucie plays as well.

The "awesome" stage with BPD is much more innocent, and some what child like when compared to the likes of NPD. It's one side of the faze of "splitting" someone between black and white (idealisation, infatuation, neediness...to... devaluation, hate, distrust, etc).

They are emotionally under developed and can't actually handle the adult and mature feelings in a relationship. And the "awesome times" only feel awesome to us non PD partners because we have usually been dragged through a shit show for weeks or maybe months before hand. Which is what usually keeps those of us who are less aware of the truth, locked in and wanting more, or chasing after it when it's suddenly snatched away again.

The hard thing is, that many are high functioning, and other people outside of the relationship see a healthy, hard working person, who is responsible and SURELY wouldn't act so horribly or dysfunctional within their relationship and home! They can be practically responsible with children, work, paying bills etc, but when it comes to emotional maturity they are destructive. They lack the skills to be able to deal with certain thoughts and feelings in a mature way. And unfortunately, they often believe that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them because they can hold down a job, look after kids, or the house.

What they often do is focus on jobs or study and ignore a relationship. Mine focuses on her job, she also treats the kids like a "job" also. This isn't only avoiding having to deal with the sticky issues of a relationship, but also because it's often the easiest and safest way for them to gain some sort of "identity". THEY DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE, BUT WILL TRY TO CONVINCE THEMSELVES (for a time) OF WHO THEY "THINK" THEY SHOULD BE. Up until a point, they take this identity from us. How we are, what we do, our interests, etc, but eventually, and repeatedly, they will begin to feel overwhelmed and smothered by this, and blame us for making them feel that way!

Mine has hoovered me back in when she has perceived that I'm actually doing pretty well for myself, and especially when she has realised that other women have admired me (I'm not bigging myself up here!). This I realise, was a form of jealousy and possession. She told me straight once (after 5 months of separation) that she didn't want anyone else having me. I didn't hear those words how I should have heard them. AS ALARM BELLS!Surely enough, a few months after moving back in, I was being split black again.

Do I trust my uBPDw? In short, NO. Although, not in any hateful way. I distrust, and realise I have distrusted for a very long time, that she cannot and probably will not ever be able to put our relationship before her own perceived needs and wants.

I feel a certain level of empathy due the fact I know that she can't help, or even realise what it is that she does, but....

Do I want to be "enjoying" the periods of idealisation? Can I enjoy it? Knowing full well, that come a certain point I will end up being devalued, hated upon, despised, painted as "the problem" to people she knows.........Nah. Not really.If she isn't able to see the truth soon and seek help, then I'm done with that thanks. This is my life as well. And I'd like to have an honest one.

They have a commitment to us, they are socially and morally bound to certain constructs and yet they are moving on. this often brings them great cognitive disconance and internal conflict as they atempt to balance their need for supply with their need to maintain their false image.

this brings on quilt and anger and frustration. hence the nasty phase. Additionally their superior stance once we are devalued brings contempt toward us.

once they overcome the above conflicts within themselves, they detatch. Yes, I believe pds can detatch also. this is so they can reimagine themselves within the new constructs. ie a cheater, or a divorsee, or...... often on this board we read where they project these things onto the non, by becoming the victim or insisting the non is cheating, or needs therapy and gaslighting the non.

Once they are over the damage to image and have reinvented themselves so to speak, they engage the new supply sources and we as nons mean little to them. Once replaced they often do not even need the supply from negative interactions, so abuse may subside.

I think they stay if it benifits them. Especially if we let them have their cake and eat it too.

I have read in many threads here about pds leaving or getting divorsed and its like they turned a light switch. its simply over for them and they have a new partner immediately, or at least have little remorse or dont grieve the relationship past that point. its simply done for them when they aquire the new source, and complete the devaluation.

Perfect description 1foot! I think you've accurately described what stbx has done. I have been replaced, yet he stays...because he gets free home cooked meals and someone picking up his messes and scrubbing the toilets. Not for long

The hard thing is, that many are high functioning, and other people outside of the relationship see a healthy, hard working person, who is responsible and SURELY wouldn't act so horribly or dysfunctional within their relationship and home! They can be practically responsible with children, work, paying bills etc, but when it comes to emotional maturity they are destructive. They lack the skills to be able to deal with certain thoughts and feelings in a mature way. And unfortunately, they often believe that there is absolutely nothing wrong with them because they can hold down a job, look after kids, or the house.

Well said. That's my updw to a high-functioning T.

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"It is better to be careful 100 times than to get killed once."Mark Twain