What do you think of this observation of many gay neighborhoods across the country?

So, I've had the pleasure of going to the Nations Capitol (D.C.) the past week and situated myself in the Dupont Circle and U-street areas. I've also actively observed the gay culture in this area, to see how it would differ from cites I currenty live and have been all across the country.

Now, I'm not saying anything bad about D.C. Don't get me wrong there. However, I was shocked at how SIMILIAR the gay scene was to almost every other place I've lived/visited in the country. I was viewing people walking down the street, and went to a couple of gay bars as well. The gay scene was mostly White. You see couples down the street holding hands? They're White. You see 2 gay people on their way somewhere, it's generally the White guys who were walking with someone. The 1 gay Black person I noticed in this particular span of about 30 minutes, walking down a certain street near 'nellies' sports bar, was alone.

When I went inside the bar, the scene wasn't anything I haven't seen before. New people, same philosophy. You have cliques. Most of the cliques are made up of gay White and Latin guys. The few Black guys that I did recognize were either singes in these 'cliques' and being far too accomodating (showing affection first, laughing hard at all their jokes, etc.)or showing feminine mannerisms. Or, you had the 1 or 2 groups of EXCLUSIVELY Black guys versus versus the many groups of EXCLUSIVELY White guys.

Why does this surprise me you ask? Well...for anyone who has not been to DC or aren't familiar with the demographics, it's about 50% Black. That's a signficant number in comparison to many cities in the country especially as you get further west like California, where it's more like 5-10%. Most major cities on average are like 20-30 (Houston, Dallas, Flo-rider, Raleigh, even NYC

It's got me thinking, how is it that one can be Black in a mostly Black city, and yet still be a minority in it's gay scene? You tell me that one would probably still have to try just a little harder than the next guy to fit in, and perhaps still be seen as 'the other guy' in a gay neighborhood. One can move from San Francisco with 5.8% Black population to DC with 50% gay population and still have the same experences. I think back to what someone here said what their dad had said about homosexuality...and how he claimed it to be a 'White man's disease'. Because even in this city outnumbering Whites, the gay scene is still almost exclusively White! So although I know the aforementioned is bullshit, at the same time I could see how one would begin to even believe it to be true.

Have you entertained the idea that those white couples you saw in Dupont were tourists (just as yourself) or didn't live in DC? They're probably from the surrounding cities such as Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, etc.

FuzzyPecs25 saidSo, I've had the pleasure of going to the Nations Capitol (D.C.) the past week and situated myself in the Dupont Circle and U-street areas. I've also actively observed the gay culture in this area, to see how it would differ from cites I currenty live and have been all across the country.

Now, I'm not saying anything bad about D.C. Don't get me wrong there. However, I was shocked at how SIMILIAR the gay scene was to almost every other place I've lived/visited in the country. I was viewing people walking down the street, and went to a couple of gay bars as well. The gay scene was mostly White. You see couples down the street holding hands? They're White. You see 2 gay people on their way somewhere, it's generally the White guys who were walking with someone. The 1 gay Black person I noticed in this particular span of about 30 minutes, walking down a certain street near 'nellies' sports bar, was alone.

When I went inside the bar, the scene wasn't nothing I haven't seen before. New people, same philosophy. You have cliques. Most of the cliques are made up of gay White and Lati

I've only experienced the gay scene in Houston, Austin, and San Antonio. In Houston and San Antonio, the gay scene is racially integrated. Then again, whenever I go into bars/clubs that has that clone culture feel, I don't go back.

Erik101 saidHave you entertained the idea that those white couples you saw in Dupont were tourists (just as yourself) or didn't live in DC? They're probably from the surrounding cities such as Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Church, etc.

Well I seen many of them look as though they walked from the homes. Seen 1 couple walk out of their front door. The area around U-street and Dupont is under the 'gentrification' mode and most of the guys do live in the area.

GooberGeek said Then again, whenever I go into bars/clubs that has that clone culture feel, I don't go back. Maybe you're going to the wrong kind of places.

I walked all over the gay district. I didn't even need to go anywhere, the people were up and down the street. I don't even think I seen 2 gay Black guys holding hands in this city. Not saying they never do, but I haven't seen it.

I also didn't see any gay Blk/Wht or Blk/Lat couples holding hands or walking down the street in the same numbers. Again, not saying that it never happens, but I didn't see it. I DID have a couple of dates while I was here where I did...but I didn't see it otherwise.It still seemed to be this ideal image of 'the gay White couple'.

I sat for maybe an hour each day and just observed the scene, and that's 99% of what I seen. In addition, what seems integrated to you, may not be integrated to me. Some people think that because they see a few 'other men' here and there, it' somehow integrated. But me, I look a little deeper to see what's really going on.

I should add, I don't feel any discomfort in being minority or what not...but I'm just saying if I were to consider moving to DC, I would have to think about that, since I'm mainly considering moving to find a different gay scene.

As soon as I read "Dupont Circle" I knew we weren't discussing a typical gayborhood. The entire DC demographic skews differently from the rest of the US, for virtually every sampling criteria.

But OK, I can believe there are fewer Blacks than Whites in gay bars there, disproportionate to the general population mix. I see the same thing here in South Florida.

Does that mean that Blacks are not welcome by gay Whites? Or are gay Blacks more closeted than Whites, and reluctant to be seen in gay public places? Either could be correct, or a bit of both.

The Blacks who come into gay bars here (and really I'd like to include all darker complexioned guys, not limiting this to race, because I don't like to sort people along racial lines) are welcomed and seem to mix well.

One friend we see regularly at our favorite gay club is a darker-skinned Jamaican, I suppose who could have some African heritage, it's of no interest to us, we just like him. Another friend we take to dinner and other events frequently, and who's been to our home for dinner, is a darker Iranian Muslim. (Undermining the slander here that I hate all Muslims, the truth being just those with anti-US terrorist sentiments).

And our White friends behave the same way. I see a very integrated gay community here. That includes lesbians, too, BTW, and we're likely having dinner at a lesbian-owned tapas bar tonight, friends of ours.

But I also see a local community that's predominately White, as the OP does in DC. If there are barriers to minority acceptance I don't sense them, but then not being a minority myself I likely wouldn't. Still, in this area I think acceptance would be good if the minorities would come.

Their choice? Simply don't like the scene I frequent? Reluctant to be seen as out gays? Their mistaken perception of non-acceptance? I can't guess. Maybe a reputable survey might tell us their reasons. But from what I see here locally, one reason shouldn't be deliberate rejection & hostility.

FuzzyPecs25I walked all over the gay district. I didn't even need to go anywhere, the people were up and down the street. I don't even think I seen 2 gay Black guys holding hands in this city. In addition, what seems integrated to you, may not be integrated to me. Some people think that because they see a few 'other men' here and there, it' somehow integrated. But me, I look a little deeper to see what's really going on.

I should add, I don't feel any discomfort in being minority or what not...but I'm just saying if I were to consider moving to DC, I would have to think about that, since I'm mainly considering moving to find a different gay scene. But if it's going to be the same struggle, I might as well stay put...atleast I know a decent amount of people now than moving elsewhere and starting from scratch.

I only frequent racially integrated or mixed LGBT spaces. I know there are those spaces where it's predominately white, Latino, or white-Latino, but I don't usually go there unless my friends want to. Are you sure it's not the places you choose to go and people you decide to hang out with?

GooberGeek saidI only frequent racially integrated or mixed LGBT spaces. I know there are those spaces where it's predominately white, Latino, or white-Latino, but I don't usually go there unless my friends want to. Are you sure it's not the places you choose to go and people you decide to hang out with?

What struggle are you talking about in particular?

Okay...I just got back from DC couple days ago. I haven't had time to respond back much.

Anyhow...the struggle that I'm referring to, is I don't want to not be able to have the guy I want just because I'm not someone's type due to race. I don't want to have to hear people say stupid stuff like how they normally date X race, but not mine...but, now that they've met me, it's somehow suppose to just magically change. But then, when things seem like it's progressing, they want to send you through loops and give you the run-around. Because in reality, their minds can't get around the race aspect. It's something I've been dealing with in Denver for over 2 years.

As someone who find guys of my race attractive and dateable, BUT also like guys outside of mine even moreso, I want to make sure I don't go into another 'scene' or environment where people are going to have hangups about some bullshit. Where the majority of gay men who are in good relationships are only White guys. Like I said, people can be with who they want to be with, but from the people I seen walking down the street in DC, all I mostly seen was White couples together, and Black guys who were with them. Which is exactly what I see in Denver. That gave me an impression that I 'could' face the same challenge if I were to consider moving there.

It could be that perhaps I was just in the wrong area, I don't think so. I walked/drove all throughout the gay neighborhoods of DC. But, like I said, if I have to be where 'the Black people' hangout...then that doesn't make any difference to me. Because it'll be the same difference. That's what states in the south have. Bars that attract one race over another. I'm not looking for that. If that's what DC is about...it's not going to be for me.

somersault saidI still don't understand the point other than you want to see more gay black men in bars and around town

That ain't the point. Let me tell you what the point is. It's not about seeing more Black men.

What I'm trying to say in a nutshell...is that I want to see more than JUST White and White-Hispanics being the ones SEEN and BEING in relationships. Not so much that I care about what other people are doing, but because what I see may have some indirect correlation on how things may pan out for me.

How does that have anything to do with me? Welll...I don't mind someone dating who they want to date, even if it's some mediocre, mundane looking White guy. BUT...I don't want to insert myself into another gay community where that's the NORM. And especially, if you're Black...you don't get the same oppurtunity to date as everyone else. In Denver, almost every person I have dated ALWAYS had to say something about my race and the fact that it's not something they normally go for. I understand why, it's our demographics and geography...but people who say that tend to be so quick to jump ship and leave the second a non-Black person of their liking comes along. I don't want to keep dealing with that. I can't change who I am, but I can change where I live.

OK, I get it. It'll never be a completely level playing field because we all know who the majority of the American gay scene is made up of. But, if I can get it to a 30 degree angle rather than a 90 degree angle...I'm closer to being level.

And I understand, as Blacks in the gay community...we have work to do outselves too. We can help level the playing field by dispersing the stereotypes. Whatever that may be.

I'm outraged and appalled at the lack of visible ginger gay guys in the gay scene. Most everyone I see is brunette, blond or black haired. It's so racist. There's obviously some anti-ginger movement at play here and I'm sickened by it.

But then, end of night...he goes off with some fucking ratchet ass looking White dude. Who doesn't even have shit on me. I'm like, this is some fucking bullshit. These guys would rather go after some fucking mediocre, mundane looking White guy, then to go with someone that stands out from the crowd and looks damn good. Who has a bit of color in his skin and style in his dress PLUS got a kick ass body. That nigga being me. Even his friends were saying to me how the guys wasn't even cute. But because he's White, he gets a little piece of my shit.

That's the shit I'm talking about. I couldn't explain it earlier because I have been away for awhile, but soon as I get home...I have to fucking deal with this fucking bullshit on a fucking weekly ass basis. And people wonder why I'm always fucking bitching about shit. Because this is the fucking shit I have to fucking deal with!

I don't have a problem with someone liking who they like, even if it's a mediocre looking White dude. But when the whole fucking city goes after that, and as a Black person, you get 3rd place and have to fucking fight and chase and be picked last all the time, that shit gets fucking tiring. Bitch, I ain't never used to not getting what I want.

I never had this problem in Florida...Explain that. It's like, no matter how fucking good I look...I can't get what the fuck I want because all these ho's see is White and Latino and think THAT'S what's attractive.

Seriously? I suggest you try therapy. I think you'll find more success digging into the deep rooted race issues you have than trying to date someone, even in Florida.

FuzzyPecs25 saidSo, I've had the pleasure of going to the Nations Capitol (D.C.) the past week and situated myself in the Dupont Circle and U-street areas. I've also actively observed the gay culture in this area, to see how it would differ from cites I currenty live and have been all across the country.

Now, I'm not saying anything bad about D.C. Don't get me wrong there. However, I was shocked at how SIMILIAR the gay scene was to almost every other place I've lived/visited in the country. I was viewing people walking down the street, and went to a couple of gay bars as well. The gay scene was mostly White. You see couples down the street holding hands? They're White. You see 2 gay people on their way somewhere, it's generally the White guys who were walking with someone. The 1 gay Black person I noticed in this particular span of about 30 minutes, walking down a certain street near 'nellies' sports bar, was alone.

When I went inside the bar, the scene wasn't anything I haven't seen before. New people, same philosophy. You have cliques. Most of the cliques are made up of gay White and Latin guys. The few Black guys that I did recognize were either singes in these 'cliques' and being far too accomodating (showing affection first, laughing hard at all their jokes, etc.)or showing feminine mannerisms. Or, you had the 1 or 2 groups of EXCLUSIVELY Black guys versus versus the many groups of EXCLUSIVELY White guys.

Why does this surprise me you ask? Well...for anyone who has not been to DC or aren't familiar with the demographics, it's about 50% Black. That's a signficant number in comparison to many cities in the country especially as you get further west like California, where it's more like 5-10%. Most major cities on average are like 20-30 (Houston, Dallas, Flo-rider, Raleigh, even NYC

It's got me thinking, how is it that one can be Black in a mostly Black city, and yet still be a minority in it's gay scene? You tell me that one would probably still have to try just a little harder than the next guy to fit in, and perhaps still be seen as 'the other guy' in a gay neighborhood. One can move from San Francisco with 5.8% Black population to DC with 50% gay population and still have the same experences. I think back to what someone here said what their dad had said about homosexuality...and how he claimed it to be a 'White man's disease'. Because even in this city outnumbering Whites, the gay scene is still almost exclusively White! So although I know the aforementioned is bullshit, at the same time I could see how one would begin to even believe it to be true.

I live in DC and yes you def see ALOT of white gay guys everywhere, holding hands etc . I will say I feel I see a lot of black lesbians - but don't tend to see or notice a lot gay black guys. I honestly think theres been a huge influx of gay white guys to DC from all over the country and they aren't just in DuPont anymore. They are everywhere AND I probably see more straight couples in DuPont than gay couples these days. U Street, Logan, Adams Morgan are gay meccas.

You are going to see many more white gays as white gays outnumber black gays, for example, by 12 to 1.

Does this help you?

Put another way there are 12 white gays as of 2009 for every black gay.

Meninlove, there are only 196 million white people in America, and 55 million hispanics, most of whom are mestizo. the so called "white hispanics" are usually mixed too and only look slightly caucasian.

gayinterest saidI'm outraged and appalled at the lack of visible ginger gay guys in the gay scene. Most everyone I see is brunette, blond or black haired. It's so racist. There's obviously some anti-ginger movement at play here and I'm sickened by it.

I'm outraged about the lack of gingers too. Where are they all hiding?

gayinterest saidI'm outraged and appalled at the lack of visible ginger gay guys in the gay scene. Most everyone I see is brunette, blond or black haired. It's so racist. There's obviously some anti-ginger movement at play here and I'm sickened by it.

I'm outraged about the lack of gingers too. Where are they all hiding?

We're cowering in fear, man - afraid to leave the safety of our homes and ghettos until the world can find the humanity enough to accept us for who and what we are - gingers and proud!

eb925guy saidI suggest you try therapy. I think you'll find more success digging into the deep rooted race issues you have than trying to date someone, even in Florida.

That's all you're seeing it as. Take off that baseball cap and put on your thinking cap for a moment. I don't have any deep rooted issues when it comes to race. I'm just simply stating what my experiences were. I don't know how you connect my experiences and what people tell me, to something I must have an issue with.

BTW, I had a bit too many drinks when I wrote that last night. I had to remain calm situation, but when I came home I had to let it all out. Turns out, I came out on top because the guy still wants to see me again, but we have to deal with HIS race issues about Blacks guys and let him know not all of us are some fist pounding thugs out to break people's jaw (I've heard that story twice here in Denver).

You have to understand, when I talk the way I do...I'm being facetious about it...but I have to say in such a vile, vulgar way to get my point across for how I feel in the situation at the time. Don't put too much emphasis on how I say it, focus on what I'm saying.

Incendiary saidBecause there probably aren't as many out of the closet black guys due to greater homophobia in the black community

This.

Homophobia is really prevelant in the black community. Because of this, A lot of gay African-Americans aren't comfortable enough with their sexuality to walk down the street holding hands in public. The only time I've EVER seen an "out and proud" gay African-American couple was during gay pride in San Fransisco.

FuzzyPecs25 saidThat's all you're seeing it as. Take off that baseball cap and put on your thinking cap for a moment. I don't have any deep rooted issues when it comes to race. I'm just simply stating what my experiences were. I don't know how you connect my experiences and what people tell me, to something I must have an issue with.

BTW, I had a bit too many drinks when I wrote that last night. I had to remain calm situation, but when I came home I had to let it all out. Turns out, I came out on top because the guy still wants to see me again, but we have to deal with HIS race issues about Blacks guys and let him know not all of us are some fist pounding thugs out to break people's jaw (I've heard that story twice here in Denver).

Switching caps….

Well, on that note the observations are certainly interesting and I think Meninlove makes a good point but where are the comments from other black men on here as to why you're not seeing them out and about? Are they congregating somewhere outside of the 'main stream'?

Oh and nice that the guy still wants to see you. Hopefully he'll recognize that the 'fist pounding thugs' are the vocal minority, not the majority.