Topic: In what way did your prog favs let you down?Posted By: horza
Subject: In what way did your prog favs let you down?
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:23

I can't think of any of my favourite prog bands which have not disappointed me in one way or another. It might have been an individual album track or an entire album, perhaps it was a line-up change that left me scratching my head in amazement.

Can you think of any examples?

I might start with Yes thinking that Trevor Horn (ex-The Buggles) was a suitable replacement for Jon Anderson.

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Replies: Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:29

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.

King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.

Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.

-------

By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. But it's OK, you can leave it.

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:45

darkshade wrote:

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. But it's OK, you can leave it.

Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 13:49

You could have left it, I have no problem with it. I thought it was funny too.

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. But it's OK, you can leave it.

Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify

Systematic Chaos is one of my favourites too. A huge improvement on Octavarium in my eyes.

------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:06

Guldbamsen wrote:

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Don't really agree with that. he orchestrated it sure. And had some input in arrangement. Didn't write it though.

------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:08

darkshade wrote:

You could have left it, I have no problem with it. I thought it was funny too.

De-rectified

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:14

Snow Dog wrote:

Guldbamsen wrote:

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Don't really agree with that. he orchestrated it sure. And had some input in arrangement. Didn't write it though.

He didn't write it no, but he literally put the whole thing together. The Floyd guys each delivered something rather fragmented, and he glued it all together to form the whole as we know it today. He was also in charge of the choral arrangement.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: Snow Dog
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:30

^not what i read.

------------- http://www.last.fm/user/Snow_Dog" rel="nofollow">

Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:31

horza wrote:

I can't think of any of my favourite prog bands which have not disappointed me in one way or another. It might have been an individual album track or an entire album, perhaps it was a line-up change that left me scratching my head in amazement.

Can you think of any examples?

I might start with Yes thinking that Trevor Horn (ex-The Buggles) was a suitable replacement for Jon Anderson.

I agree! In fact, Yes continues to disappoint without Jon Anderson, at least with Benoit David. Jon Davison is a very good stand-in for Anderson, but they are not the same....Downes just doesn't have the chops from what I've heard. I also don't like their proclivity to play only for casino theaters in the USA, there are many fine venues that are more accessible.

Major record disappointments for me included "Drama" (putting me at odds with most on PA it would appear), "Union," and "Big Generator."

I wish Yes had stuck to the formula that created "Tales from Topographic Oceans"! Over-reach, spiritual themes etc. They made their best music when they pushed themselves to their personal limits.

Creative tension can work wonders in the rock studio, I've experienced it many times. It's not a recording session until at least one breakable object is broken!

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 14:43

Snow Dog wrote:

^not what i read.

I am pretty certain. Saw an interview with Geesin a little while back, that sounded very honest. The only thing he regrets about it all, is the fact that he didn't have more time with the choir, because he felt he could've gotten even more out it.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 15:07

Sometimes I find Martin Barre doesn't vary his tone enough in early Tull.

I really dislike King Crimson's Beat.

Rush's music videos.

Posted By: RodrigoDeLeon
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 15:34

Tha Mars Volta after making 3 wonderful albums (De-Loused in the Comatorium, Frances the Mute and Amputechture) weren't the same anymore. The Bedlam in Goliath , Octahedron and Noctourniquet (despite liking some tracks) are just "Meh" albums.

It is still sad that the band broke up, I had the hope they returned to the good ol' days.

Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 15:37

Octahedron is the only album that disappointed for me. Bedlam was an onslaught and kicked ass, and Noctourniquet is quite possibly their most progressive album.

Rush after Hold Your Fire, Genesis after Duke, Yes when Trevor Rabin replaced Steve Howe, ELP when they went "orchestra", Marillion when Fish left the boat, Pink Floyd when they did "The Wall".

-------------Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:10

rdtprog wrote:

Rush after Hold Your Fire, Genesis after Duke, Yes when Trevor Rabin replaced Steve Howe, ELP when they went "orchestra", Marillion when Fish left the boat, Pink Floyd when they did "The Wall".

Agreed re: Genesis after Duke.

I was disappointed with how Waters treated Richard Wright @ "The Wall".

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:13

Guldbamsen wrote:

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

This, this and this.

-------------My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran

Posted By: HolyMoly
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:17

I actually have a thread idea I've been tossing around. I've noticed that a lot of times when I get into a current band, I seem to catch them right at their peak, and then each succeeding album moves further and further from what excited me about them in the first place. But in the end it just feels like I'm being selfish and expecting bands to stay in one place of my own devising, which isn't really fair.

-------------My other avatar is a Porsche

It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is lightly greased.

-Kehlog Albran

Posted By: ProgBob
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:17

I discovered prog at a bad time. Virtually every new album by artists I had just discovered was a disappointment:

I was initially perplexed by KC's Discipline but I came round to that one and I now regard it as a classic (unlike any of those mentioned above).

-------------Bob

Posted By: Aussie-Byrd-Brother
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:21

Guldbamsen wrote:

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Dave, I agree about the album, and it especially bugs me as I've read over the years Gilmour having said things like he felt the album was rubbish. When I first started getting into prog, I only had cassettes of `Animals' and `Atom Heart Mother' (that tape was in vile condition too! ), and I had NEVER heard music like it! It was the most exciting, unique, varied, schizophrenic and strage album I had ever heard! Totally knocked me back....I remember being 16-17, spending a summer helping out at my Dad's work wrapping up and posting business calenders to clients, and I had that Atom Heart tape playing over and over for days on end :)

As for the topic of this thread, I was pretty disappointed when Porcupine Tree first started heading in the `harder/heavier' direction....as much as I still love those last few albums, they certainly lost a little bit of their subtlety :)

Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:22

Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis. That was a drag. I was very fortunate to get to see The Lamb Lies Down show at the Shrine and the Selling England show at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. But my last Genesis concert was Trick of the Tail in Burbank. And I never bought another Genesis album after Trick.

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:28

Larree wrote:

Peter Gabriel leaving Genesis. That was a drag. I was very fortunate to get to see The Lamb Lies Down show at the Shrine and the Selling England show at the Santa Monica Civic Auditorium. But my last Genesis concert was Trick of the Tail in Burbank. And I never bought another Genesis album after Trick.

Welcome to the Prog Archives - I notice you joined today.

Steve Hillage let me down - I saw him at the Glasgow Apollo in 1979 and he never returned. I loved that gig (the 'Open' tour) and always looked out for him coming back. Maybe one day

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:37

Thank you for the welcome, Horza. Pleasure to be here!

Posted By: darkshade
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 16:55

My first Yes album was 90125, after hearing Long Distance Runaround/The Fish on the radio and looking for that and similar songs. Quite disappointing, though I remember going "Oh, Owner of a Lonely Heart is Yes?!!"

Helmut Koellen leaving Triumvirat.
No matter how hard they tried, the subsequent recordings paled by comparison to the ones with Helmut.
When he left Triumvirat, so did their career.

-------------If you have nothing, you have everything.

Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 18:57

Clockwork Angels was a massive hype and the biggest Rush let down in their discog for me. Terribly boring record.

Talking Heads post-Speaking in Tongues

Radiohead's The King of Limbs. Not awful, but a clear weakening.

-------------Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Posted By: dysoriented
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:18

Dream Theater released some terrible songs for me, Forsaken and A Rite of Passage were both awful in my opinion. I know they were meant to be slightly poppy, but, DT just cannot do poppy properly.BigElf smashed it with 'Money Machine' and 'Hex', but 'Cheat the Gallows' kinda sucked, I don't know why but the first time I listened to it I couldn't sit through the whole thing.

All I got so far, but those are more recent and fresh in the mind I guess? Oh but I do agree with RodrigoDeLeon that The Mars Volta lost it's flavour after amputechture.

Posted By: Floyd Steely
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:18

Not trying to be a jerk here, but have you ever considered that your favorite prog bands might be disappointed in you as a fan?

Posted By: malibusr
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:37

Not trying to be a jerk here, but have you ever considered that your favorite prog bands might be disappointed in you as a fan?....

Now that is funny!!!!

Posted By: Horizons
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:41

Floyd Steely wrote:

Not trying to be a jerk here, but have you ever considered that your favorite prog bands might be disappointed in you as a fan?

No, that's just nonsense. Artists constantly mention that they lose and gain fans with new releases, it's what happens naturally when you experiment with your sound. As an artist, i wouldn't expect my fans to be uncompromisingly devoted to me.

-------------Crushed like a rose in the riverflow.

Posted By: Floyd Steely
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:45

That was exactly my point. It's not necessarily the artist's fault when a listener doesn't connect with the work.

Posted By: rogerthat
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 19:54

Floyd Steely wrote:

Not trying to be a jerk here, but have you ever considered that your favorite prog bands might be disappointed in you as a fan?

Indeed. Let down...who the hell are you for them to have let you down, Emperor of China? There are albums I like and some that I don't. What few tracks I heard of Clockwork Angels, King of Limbs, A Dramatic Turn of Events, Road Salt One, 2nd Law did not encourage me to proceed. I think it's going to be the same with Raven That Refused to Sing. Just didn't excite me, it obviously must have excited them so guess they're on a different trip from mine.

Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 20:03

Snow Dog wrote:

horza wrote:

darkshade wrote:

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. But it's OK, you can leave it.

Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify

Systematic Chaos is one of my favourites too. A huge improvement on Octavarium in my eyes.

Same here. I found Octavarium had some great highs, but so many lows that it almost cancels out those highs. However I can't say I have many problems with any track on Systematic Chaos.

Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: March 10 2013 at 21:57

Floyd Steely wrote:

Not trying to be a jerk here, but have you ever considered that your favorite prog bands might be disappointed in you as a fan?

Too funny!

You may get a kick out of this article. Not about a prog band or artist, but it applies to your post. Kind of!

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

I agree whole heartedly. I have never understood why AHM has been put down by all members of Floyd.

I found A Dramatic Turn of Events quite disappointing - a decent album if we're talking about musical ideas, but just way too full of musical noodling (something I hoped they would let go of when Mike P left)

-------------

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 02:50

Most Steve Howe solo albums have been a disappointment. How can a musician be so great in a band and so bad solo

Posted By: BarryGlibb
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 04:35

ProgBob wrote:

I discovered prog at a bad time. Virtually every new album by artists I had just discovered was a disappointment:

I was initially perplexed by KC's Discipline but I came round to that one and I now regard it as a classic (unlike any of those mentioned above).

Don't be so hard on yourself. A IMHO is a tremendous album and I had been following them since 1972. To me it was such a breath of fresh air. I had had enough of their folk stuff...too much King Henry Madrigal, too much One Brown Mouse, too much folk. So A just gelled for me. I regularly go back and play it. I have always stated that A is a much underrated masterpiece.

As for Asia...well yes that was AOR at its worst IMHO. It was unfortunate that the Wishbone Ash guys (Andy Powell and Laurie Wisefield) weren't willing to let John Wetton into a contract that would allow him a share of songwriting and singing duties in WIshone. I am sure WA would have had a much more fruitful few years after 1981if that had been done. But Wetton left after one album with WA and formed Asia and the rest is history.

Discipline is a five star album. Love it.

Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 05:00

zeqexes wrote:

I found A Dramatic Turn of Events quite disappointing - a decent album if we're talking about musical ideas, but just way too full of musical noodling (something I hoped they would let go of when Mike P left)

I gave a listen to this cd many times, but still can't find anything to satisfy me, except a couple of songs at the end. Since BCSL the band has disappointed me.

-------------Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran

Posted By: ole-the-first
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 06:51

Anathema's 'A Natural Disaster'. I love all their albums since 1996 but
not this one. It sounds to me overly boring and 'Violence' is a total
rip-off from 'Laura Palmer's Theme' by Angelo Badalamenti.

-------------This night wounds time.

Posted By: friso
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 07:42

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

Posted By: Astral Traveller
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 07:55

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

After all of the years Fripp spent criticizing pop music, I can't see him playing at a Lady Gaga concert.

I was let down when Chris Squire kicked Jon Anderson out of the band for poor health, then did the same when Benoit fell ill, and did not let Jon rejoin when they needed a new lead singer.

Side 2 of Genesis. Side 1 was such a perfect side of music IMO, but they really dropped the ball on Side 2.

Yes - Open Your Eyes. Utterly terrible and coming off the strong live/studio Keys to Ascension made this album even harder to swallow.

The Jakksyk, Fripp & Collins album A Scarcity of Miracles. With 3 (plus 2) great musicians, the chances for something spectacular was pretty darn high. Unfortunately, they went for a more ambient kind of atmosphere and the album lacked any dynamics, and melody for that matter. Not a sell out, but about as exciting as watching paint dry.

-------------I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 09:38

Pink Floyd only let me down twice:

1. Stopping improvising & experimenting.

2. The 1980s.

------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew

Posted By: DreamInSong
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 10:37

2008, Dream Theater was my favorite band. I loved every album, except their most recent. I listened to Systematic Chaos endlessly, hoping it would click, and provoke the same love so many of their albums, it never did.

Storm Corrosion had some great songs. The Drag Ropes video was incredible, and the title song is sooo gorgeous. So why does the album feel so bland?

The Incident (IMO) is Porcupine Tree's worst album (though I've never listened to the debut album). What a terrible note to end on, after such a long run of brilliance.

-------------

Posted By: Metalmarsh89
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 11:10

DisgruntledPorcupine wrote:

Snow Dog wrote:

horza wrote:

darkshade wrote:

Dream Theater, when they released Systematic Chaos, though I enjoyed some tracks right off the bat, the album marked the end of my prog listening days for a couple of years. I was also disappointed when Mike Portnoy left, but they rectified that situation.King Crimson, when a few years ago I realized they'll probably never record an album again.Frank Zappa, not long after I first got into his music I found out he died in 1993.-------By the way Horza, I never gave you my permission for that sig. But it's OK, you can leave it.

Systematic Chaos was the album that got me into DT - I saw them on that tour and had actually gone to see the support act, Symphony X.

My sig was a kind of tribute to something you said that I thought was quite funny. I will rectify

Systematic Chaos is one of my favourites too. A huge improvement on Octavarium in my eyes.

Same here. I found Octavarium had some great highs, but so many lows that it almost cancels out those highs. However I can't say I have many problems with any track on Systematic Chaos.

I think I feel the opposite here. I love Octavarium, but Systematic Chaos had some good points, and some bad ones. In fact, if I had to pick a least favorite Dream Theater album (all of which I like), it might be Systematic Chaos. Not disappointing, just not their best.

Muse's latest album I enjoyed much less than the previous ones. I wouldn't call it a bad album, just not my taste.

Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 11:14

I liked Octavarium quite a bit. And do prefer it over Systematic Chaos, although I don't think that was too bad of an album either.

-------------I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: Larree
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 11:43

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

Wow.

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 11:47

Hi,

Pink Floyd, in the album after Dark Side of the Moon. They had been playing new material for a whole year and it was in many bootlegs, and it was dumped for a few more years. And it was vastly superior.

Other than that ... Amon Duul 2 in Vive La Trance album ... you knew right after the end of "Apocaliptyc Bore" that it was over ... and the rest of their stuff is not half as important, or as good since.

-------------... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the inner art is all about! www.pedrosena.com

Posted By: Dayvenkirq
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 12:15

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

... You've just made that up, right?

-------------"Books were only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of things we were afraid we might forget. There is nothing magical in them at all. The magic is only in what books say, ... ."

Posted By: aapatsos
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 12:21

Hard to tell (and good, interesting thread)

Possibly the fact that bands tend to go heavier/more industrial-like and forget about the depth of composition (see last two Fates Warning releases).

Or, when bands "evolve" further than they should have (of course who am I to judge, but) e.g. Anathema, start playing so-called uninteresting progressive (?) pop music from something that inspired them (see Coldplay) later in their career

but then again, major disappointments can sometimes lead to massive comebacks, so not all is dark and grey

-------------"Prog-gnostics" show - every Saturday 2-4pm UK time on http://www.justincaseradio.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.justincaseradio.com , the first progressive radio in Greece

Posted By: JocBT
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 14:38

cstack3 wrote:

horza wrote:

I can't think of any of my favourite prog bands which have not disappointed me in one way or another. It might have been an individual album track or an entire album, perhaps it was a line-up change that left me scratching my head in amazement.

Can you think of any examples?

I might start with Yes thinking that Trevor Horn (ex-The Buggles) was a suitable replacement for Jon Anderson.

I agree! In fact, Yes continues to disappoint without Jon Anderson, at least with Benoit David. Jon Davison is a very good stand-in for Anderson, but they are not the same....Downes just doesn't have the chops from what I've heard. I also don't like their proclivity to play only for casino theaters in the USA, there are many fine venues that are more accessible.

Major record disappointments for me included "Drama" (putting me at odds with most on PA it would appear), "Union," and "Big Generator."

I wish Yes had stuck to the formula that created "Tales from Topographic Oceans"! Over-reach, spiritual themes etc. They made their best music when they pushed themselves to their personal limits.

Creative tension can work wonders in the rock studio, I've experienced it many times. It's not a recording session until at least one breakable object is broken!

I disagree strongly with the both of you. Drama was a very strong album, even considering that Jon isn't on it. Now I can understand the hate for Union and Big Generator but they both have incredible songs including Shoot High Aim Low, I'm Running, Holy Lamb, Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day, Miracle of Life, The More We Live - Let Go to name a few.

Although they never really did go back to the classic sound (they hit is slightly on Ladder, which is a very good album), they did make great songs on both Magnification and Fly From Here, which coincidentally doesn't have Jon either.

Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 14:51

Drama is in my top 5 Yes albums, along with CTTE, TFTO, GFTO and yes, 90125. The latest, Fly From Here is a good one and my favorite since The Keys to Ascension sets.

-------------I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 14:55

The Doctor wrote:

Drama is in my top 5 Yes albums, along with CTTE, TFTO, GFTO and yes, 90125. The latest, Fly From Here is a good one and my favorite since The Keys to Ascension sets.

Fragile and Relayer would make my top 5 Yes albums before Drama

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 14:58

Never had the love for Relayer as others here have. In fact, it is my least favorite of their 70s output. Fragile comes in a close 6, followed by TAAW, TYA, Talk and Fly From Here.

-------------I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: DisgruntledPorcupine
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 14:58

horza wrote:

The Doctor wrote:

Drama is in my top 5 Yes albums, along with CTTE, TFTO, GFTO and yes, 90125. The latest, Fly From Here is a good one and my favorite since The Keys to Ascension sets.

Fragile and Relayer would make my top 5 Yes albums before Drama

Same here especially since those are my two favourite Yes albums.

Posted By: akamaisondufromage
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 15:15

Again. Genesis on the Mama tour. For the Prince and Princess of Wales. Instead of sticking to their own medleys they play a medley of pop and soul tunes they like! I knew they were pretty poppy by that time but PLEASE NO! Don't do that 'drop your prog trousers and offer your bare pop behind to all and sundry'. Just because your pop stars and Diana likes Phil! Just f**k of all three of you and that curly haired American guitarist you can f**k off too! Grrr! Vowed never to go and see them again. And never did!

-------------Help me I'm falling!

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 15:21

akamaisondufromage wrote:

Again. Genesis on the Mama tour. For the Prince and Princess of Wales. Instead of sticking to their own medleys they play a medley of pop and soul tunes they like! I knew they were pretty poppy by that time but PLEASE NO! Don't do that 'drop your prog trousers and offer your bare pop behind to all and sundry'. Just because your pop stars and Diana likes Phil! Just f**k of all three of you and that curly haired American guitarist you can f**k off too! Grrr! Vowed never to go and see them again. And never did!

Poor Daryl Stuermer

He would only do what he was asked to do.

Apparently Stuermer auditioned for and won a spot backing up jazz violinist Jean-Luc Ponty in 1975, with whom he recorded four albums.

(Good old wikipedia )

Btw I'm hoping you visit the thread about how you came by your nickname akamaisondufromage

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: Master of Time
Date Posted: March 11 2013 at 18:13

A big one for me recently was Pain of Salvation. I've only gotten into them in about the last 6 months or so, and they've quickly risen through the ranks of my favorite bands. I started with Perfect Element and then moved on to Be and Remedy Lane. I then decided I needed more and got their first two albums, then moved on to the Road Salt duo (though I listened to second one first). After a while I thought it was impossible for them to disappoint me, because up to that point I'd loved it all. Then I got Scarsick.

Posted By: friso
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 05:54

Dayvenkirq wrote:

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

... You've just made that up, right?

Yeah I did :P

...It was a green guitar...

Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 08:24

friso wrote:

Dayvenkirq wrote:

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

... You've just made that up, right?

Yeah I did :P

...It was a green guitar...

Or blue or yellow ... I would find that hilarious ... still would not get me to spend a cent on that woman, but what the heck! ... the laugh was worth it!

Are you sure it was not a cardboard cut-out?

-------------... none of the hits, none of the time ... now you know what the inner art is all about! www.pedrosena.com

Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 09:32

Sixteen years old and a bunch of try to be cool wise guys picked me up and they had Dark Side of the Moon playing in their souped up car. I bought the album a few days later. I thought it was so different and that was moronic to a degree. While this realization remained in my thoughts, a year passed while WMMR and WYSP in Philadelphia started playing tracks from it as if it were a bubblegum affair..except this was suppose to be cool and cosmic and that turned me off from the album. After a few months of that contrived nonsense I arrived to the conclusion that Meddle was a real Pink Floyd album and that D.S.O.T.M. was phony and plastic.

I had a difficult time digesting people sitting around in the yoga positions, fooling with substances, and praising Jon Anderson's cosmic lyrics. I used to vomit when I subjected myself to that. After Close to the Edge I completely hated them. The vast social environment of YES fans in Jersey and P.A. had a certain belief system and everyone wanted to shut up and listen to the master Jon Anderson speak.

Argent had released a couple of decent albums. Ring Of Hands, In Deep (minus a few filler tracks), Circus and Counterpoints. Most people liked All Together Now and Encore. All Together Now is by far the worst ever and Encore sounds like a band who didn't practice.

Captain Beyond was an album that we used to laugh at. People just didn't get it. Rod Evans was horrible. The lyrics/words to those songs coming out of his stupied mouth were laughable and the best entertainment to date. Rhino and Pinera were such lame guitar players. They played with Iron Butterfly? How lame is that? Think about it. Think really hard. Captain Beyond is linked to prog? Think of the background of the band members? In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida was horrific enough, but these guys played in the later incarnation of Iron Butterfly and that was a waste within the definition itself. After hearing musicians in Curved Air, Captain Beyond was developing a prog definition? Really? Then I guess anyone who plays half-ass guitar and sings annoying can form a prog band. People make fun of Ted Nugent and Foghat and yet Captain Beyond is classified as a form of prog? I guess no one has to practice anymore. How pathetic and moronic is that?

As a teenager I liked Deep Purple. Even though the lyrics were about low-life macho pea brain concepts, the band was great. I hated BURN with a passion. It took 2 singers to cover the vocal range of Ian Gillian. One covered the low end and the other attempted to match Gillians high dimensional range. The songwriting was progressively worse with songs like "Might Just Take Your Life", "Lay Down, Stay Down", "You Fool No One". Can't you write about something interesting? Howlin Wolf was a rocker , but he didn't come across showboating rock lyrics like a guy wearing a jock strap. Ian Gillian had a diverse voice with dimensional range. He was chosen to sing the main role for Jesus Christ Superstar instead of other bubblegum artists like the Cowsills, Bobby Goldsboro, or whoever? Ian Gillan ripped his voice to shreads with his attack on "Child In Time". He lost abilty to sing that way ever again and these 2 rockers were on a mission to replace that kind of power and drive? Andrew LLoyd Webber was not about to choose just any lamo to take on a project role. This is a background check and you can clearly see how every move to promote talent in 74' became less important for bands.

Procol Harum released Broken Barricades and apart from the title track and Simple Sister, it was a cheap and badly written blend of lack luster Procol songs with the cheap Hendrix imitator Robin Trower dominating the sound. There is one particular song where Keith Reid is reciting poetry with echo and Trower is making use of 68' Hendrix guitar effects and the whole entire affair is useless and pointless. A more modern Hendrix sound post Mahogany Rush/pre-Bridge of Sighs cheapness slipped into the sound of Procol Harum. God awful it was.

Posted By: Moogtron III
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 09:49

My favorite prog band (Yes) didn't really let me down, just started losing the magic a bit from the 1990's on.

I don't blame them, and it's nice that sometimes there were outbursts of new creativity again, as with Keys To Ascension, the tour with the orchestra (Magnification) and Fly From Here (although I do miss Anderson and Wakeman).

Posted By: M27Barney
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 14:30

The fact that "As Above So Below" never recorded their stuff properly oh and Alaska - who did Lord of the rings parts 1,2 and 3 never put down any studio work - truly wasted genius I fear....

-------------Play me my song.....Here it comes again.......

Posted By: tolcc
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 20:52

I was really sad when Mike Portnoy left DT. I was inconsolable until I found out about Mangini and heard ADTOE.

Opeth's Heritage disappointed me at first, but now I LOVE it.

The fact that Steven Wilson put PT on hiatus still bothers me.

I don't know if it counts as prog, but Metallica putting out Lulu gets the award for the biggest disappoinment EVER.

Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 21:13

Tull put out blandities like "A", "Broadsword and the Beast" and "Under Wraps". I only partially forgave them when "Crest of a Knave" was released.

Yes released "Tormato" and "Drama" consecutively.

Genesis and "Abacab" (and everything thereafter).

Pink Floyd and "The Final Cut" (a prophetic title if ever there was one).

-------------And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision.

Posted By: ProgMetaller2112
Date Posted: March 12 2013 at 22:18

I don't like speaking of this but I will:

I hated Genesis's video of We Can't Dance(I still do)I hate the intro to Big Generator(). I still hate most of Union and Tormato by Yes I hated all of Rush's material after Moving Pictures(with time I learned to like them though )I get looking at ELP's Love Beach

-------------“War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Ignorance is strength.”

― George Orwell, Nineteen Eighty-Four

"Ignorance and Prejudice and Fear walk Hand in Hand"- Neil Peart

Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 10:22

Genesis going "pop" after Gabriel and Hackett left.

Queen going "pop" after "A day at the races".

Yes letting Jon Anderson out.

No more Anderson/Barre new music after more than a decade.

"In the hot seat" as the last "ELP" album.

Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 10:39

Yes letting lot's of mediocre musicians from the 80--thru the 90's and into the new century into the fold which is aways a recipe for disaster for this group artistically---the group is only great with 5 great musicians---and Genesis's refusal to work with Hackett unless Peter is involved---which is unlikely---as I love the Seconds Out period.

Posted By: Gerinski
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 13:45

Gabriel's Genesis disbanding without having done a decent video recording of a The Lamb show (I have lost hope that there may be any in some vault).

Kansas not having done any live video recording (as far as I know) of their best period (Two For The Show tour).

Posted By: Polymorphia
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 14:41

Comus never released a studio recording of the Malgaard Suite

Posted By: jude111
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 14:51

Snow Dog wrote:

Guldbamsen wrote:

Hmm....
Maybe not what you had in mind, but something that's been rather difficult to swallow for me, is when artists denounce their earlier music. Pink Floyd fx have been pretty nasty about Atom Heart Mother, especially Waters and Gilmour.
Now I happen to believe that AHM is a bonafide masterpiece, and that the epic selftitled track is a thing of pure art. A lot of that is obviously down to Ron Geesin's input and guidance, which is why I find it even more disrespectful. It was just as much his baby.

Don't really agree with that. he orchestrated it sure. And had some input in arrangement. Didn't write it though.

I think he rather had a large hand in it. From what I've read, the band jammed in the studio, handed him the tapes, and then disappeared, leaving him to make some sense of it, which he did.

Posted By: HemispheresOfXanadu
Date Posted: March 13 2013 at 15:39

friso wrote:

I really disliked seeing Robert Fripp walking on stage and playing a pink acoustic guitar on a Lady Gaga concert in Londen in 2010. He just kept smyling...

Wow! Fripp knows how to smile?!

Posted By: TODDLER
Date Posted: March 14 2013 at 10:21

When I was a mere teenager in the early 70's, prog was introduced to me through the news media. ELP, Genesis, and Jethro Tull were on "Channel 6 Action News, Channel 3 Eyewitness News because they were playing in Philadelphia every year. No one in particular had the idea of examining critically the elements of the music. Rock critics were of course , but the music set kids free and so for our generation it was all about acceptance and welcoming this new music into our lives. My ambivalent reaction/attitude developed much later in the late 70's when bands like Starcastle were being promoted and a younger generation began to denigrate prog bands from '70-'72.

I continued to investigate the underground prog discovering fans of Hatfield and the North and the entire genre to be quite obsolete. So..I wanted to go to England to find these people. I didn't and suffered in New Jersey with Disco boys and Rocky Horror Picture Show fans. Their attitude about prog was futile and for a short while I became furious over these people. When I first discovered P.A. and even Progressive Ears, I could obviously sense that people from this generation were controlling the opinions of the threads. I had not the ability to deal with the rude remarks promptly/effectively. Instead I was shocked and too disappointed to do anything but laugh it off calmly, dismissing it as I did in the late 70's. I met a few kind/courteous members on P.A. that I respected and were teenagers in the late 70's. They were intelligently informed on prog history and they even gave me introduction to the prog bands I had missed in my youth. This was a plus on P.A.!!!

I recall traveling the road and we had a blow-up doll on the bus with us. Some band members would often suggest that I be seated next to it so I could discuss prog with it instead of them. My esoteric tastes felt awkward to the automation clones who rode the bus. Art Zoyd and Univers Zero confined me to this sadistic image among my peers. European musicians wrote me letters expressing interest in America and I was determined to convince them otherwise. It baffles me as to just how they were being educated to American culture in Europe at that time. I knew I didn't belong here and constantly forced to conceal myself or suffer ridicule from many American musicians who ironically desired to take lessons from me..yet felt anxious in my presence as if I was going to drug them, incarcerate them in a dark chamber, and proceed to chop them into tiny pieces...which is not how the social environment in European countries were reacting to the music of Univers Zero. I was just like everybody else that defecated and procreated. Long before we all existed we ate lunch..like malignant tumors.

Posted By: BlackenedGass
Date Posted: March 14 2013 at 18:12

There are quite a few times a prog band has let me down... be it a mediocre album, change of member/sound/instrument.

But the the biggest one would be all of the relentless touring my favorite ones do without ever coming to the U.K.!

Posted By: horza
Date Posted: March 15 2013 at 11:15

BlackenedGass wrote:

There are quite a few times a prog band has let me down... be it a mediocre album, change of member/sound/instrument.But the the biggest one would be all of the relentless touring my favorite ones do without ever coming to the U.K.!

Name them!!

Personally I would love to have seen Fates Warning here in the UK.

-------------Originally posted by darkshade:

Calling Mike Portnoy a bad drummer is like calling Stephen Hawking an idiot.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:01

Marillion. Script for a Jester's Tear was magnificent to me and still is. Fugazi was mediocre. Misplaced Childhood was nothing but a chore for me to sit through.

Jethro Tull - Under Wraps was awful, although I enjoyed the concert.

Genesis after Hackett left

I was disappointed with Till We Have Faces and with GTR, although I was quite willing to play Hackett to Bits over and over and over again. However, Hackett followed up GTR with Momentum and many other stupendous albums that followed.

I was really getting into Jade Warrior shortly before Tony Duhig died. Still nice material that followed anyway.

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:10

HackettFan wrote:

Marillion. Script for a Jester's Tear was magnificent to me and still is. Fugazi was mediocre. Misplaced Childhood was nothing but a chore for me to sit through.

Funny how that works - my fave is Fugazi, while I partly agree with you on Misplaced Childhood.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: The Doctor
Date Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:14

My fav is Clutching at Straws. Marillion did disappoint me with Radiation, coming off the excellent This Strange Engine, and then followed Radiation up with what I thought was a rather boring album, .com.

-------------I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 15 2013 at 13:16

The Doctor wrote:

My fav is Clutching at Straws. Marillion did disappoint me with Radiation, coming off the excellent This Strange Engine, and then followed Radiation up with what I thought was a rather boring album, .com.

Clutching is very close to being my favourite too, but that's because I love the beatnik approach of the lyrics. Always read a lot of Kerouac and Burroughs.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: AtomicCrimsonRush
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 04:58

VDGG = ALT is the pits

Rush = Presto - flopping awful

Genesis = Abacab - nauseating

ELP = In the Hot Seat = such a waste of a Cd

Storm Corrosion = Worst thing from Steven Wilson and Akerfeldt

-------------

Posted By: Sagichim
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 05:32

Just found out about this thread, anyway of the top of my head...

Black Sabbath after Born Again.Ambrosia after Somewhere I've Never Travelled. Road Island, their last is very good though.PFM after Jet Lag.

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 05:44

I was never chronological in my pursuit of Pink Floyd's catalogue, but when I came across The Final Cut, I felt let down. In a big way. I know it has its fans here and I love the fact that we all are different, but to me personally, it feels like foreplay after the orgasm. The Wall expressed everything integral to Waters' inner demons in terms of his father and the war - yet with The Final Cut we get even more from the same drawer. Only with plastic patch work music and half a band.

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: Stool Man
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 05:52

And of course it was the only album they did without a live tour to support it

------------- rotten hound of the burnie crew

Posted By: Guldbamsen
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 05:54

Who can blame em?

-------------“The Guide says there is an art to flying or rather a knack. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.”

- Douglas Adams

Posted By: Ady Cardiac
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 06:23

i brought a gentle giant cd set last year.....was the last 6 albums i think.....its frightening as the albums get worse as they go along.....the last one is awful.......which is a shame.

Posted By: HackettFan
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 08:25

Guldbamsen wrote:

The Doctor wrote:

My fav is Clutching at Straws. Marillion did disappoint me with Radiation, coming off the excellent This Strange Engine, and then followed Radiation up with what I thought was a rather boring album, .com.

Clutching is very close to being my favourite too, but that's because I love the beatnik approach of the lyrics. Always read a lot of Kerouac and Burroughs.

I stopped listening after Misplaced Childhood, I'm afraid.

Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 17:33

Pink floyd doing the Wall - really cannot get on with it, even after all this time.....

-------------"I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman

Posted By: Tapfret
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 18:07

The last 20 years of sideshow buffoonery by Yes has been exceedingly disappointing. And it seems to get exponentially worse as time goes on. There was a time in my life when they were it, but even listening to their classics now gets clouded by images of recent rubbish albums and line-up changes. Chris Squire's jackbootery as the masthead for their current devolving enterprise.

-------------There is no act more pretentious and self-indulgent than labeling another's art as pretentious and self-indulgent.Always copy to clipboard before clicking Post Reply.

Posted By: Ruby900
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 18:09

Tapfret wrote:

The last 20 years of sideshow buffoonery by Yes has been exceedingly disappointing. And it seems to get exponentially worse as time goes on. There was a time in my life when they were it, but even listening to their classics now gets clouded by images of recent rubbish albums and line-up changes. Chris Squire's jackbootery as the masthead for their current devolving enterprise.

I wish you would speak your mind.......

-------------"I always say that it’s about breaking the rules. But the secret of breaking rules in a way that works is understanding what the rules are in the first place". Rick Wakeman

Posted By: irrelevant
Date Posted: March 16 2013 at 21:26

Ady Cardiac wrote:

i brought a gentle giant cd set last year.....was the last 6 albums i think.....its frightening as the albums get worse as they go along.....the last one is awful.......which is a shame.

I actually like the music of Civilian, it's good pop/rock, to me. I even don't mind Giant For a Day (it's certainly not great). I think that GG never really made a bad album. In terms of the last three albums, it wasn't so much the music that suffered, it was why they made the music that way which was the slightly disappointing thing.

Wow.....how does one answer a question like that without sounding petty...?

IMHO several of my classic prog faves have 'let me down' over the years.

After Brain Salad ELP just bottomed out,

KC shifted gears so dramtically after Red it was a let down for me,

And of course I was disappointed when Gabriel left Genesis ...and that's not dissing Collins but the music changed too much for my tastes after Trick and Wind.

I could name others but I don't want to sound like a complainer.

-------------Et In Arcadia Ego

Posted By: brainstormer
Date Posted: March 17 2013 at 22:41

I really like the saying "If you don't have something nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all."

I am in the extreme minority as I don't think there ever was a bad ELP album. I remember in the 90's everyone who loved Magma hated Magma's Merci. Now, hardly anyone who loves Magma hates that album, or at least

it has some popularity. It will probably change in 10 years for ELP. But, in saying something negative, my

2nd fav. prog band, Yes, I thought that the last album, Fly From Here, was the hardest of their albums

to get into. Which is surprising because they held out for so long in putting out anything bad. But, if

some fans like it, at least that's good enough for me. It's not like they ever picked up the huge flock

At the time i was disappointed by The Lamb Lied Down on Broadway, hoping for more in the Selling England direction.

Within months I changed my mind.

I had similar reactions to Brain Salad Surgery and TFTO.

Animals disappointed me at the time and I still don't particularly like it.

Posted By: Josef_K
Date Posted: March 19 2013 at 06:35

Yes in the 80s, nothing wrong with trying to do something completely different than before, but does it have to sound awful? In a way I guess parts of "Going for the One" and "Tormato" were disappointments as well, nowhere near the perfection of "Relayer". Still, they both had some extremely strong moments.

Genesis after The Lamb... so much potential, but it just feels so boring, and poor Phil really struggles but never gets there...

Pink Floyd after The Final Cut, same as for Genesis... except High Hopes where they actually show that they don't really need Waters to make great music.

VdGG after Hugh left sounds weird... maybe it'll grow on me...

-------------Leave the past to burn,
At least that's been his own

- Peter Hammill

Posted By: freyacat
Date Posted: March 19 2013 at 14:53

I remember reading Robert Fripp writing in the 90's about the audience member's expectations, and all the things we think we have a "right" to.

I use the word "disappoint" carefully, because my expectations can get in the way of an artist doing what they are inspired to do. If a musician is giving it their best shot in the circumstances, it's not really fair for me to be disappointed if I don't like it.

So many reviews on this site are not reviewing the music. It's just the reviewer complaining that the 80's followed the 70's, or that their heroes got old. Sometimes, the reviewer is simply reviewing himself and his lack of musical sensitivity.

But I am genuinely "disappointed" if good musicians fail to live up to that goodness, and are obviously phoning it in.

I am disappointed if a musician is playing something they don't believe in.

-------------sad creature nailed upon the coloured door of time

Posted By: happythe
Date Posted: March 21 2013 at 12:42

I was pretty disappointed when I met Steve Howe and asked him to sign a picture of Tomorrow I had. He looked at it aghast, then sighed, "How embarrassing... Look at those trousers..."

Granted, bright blue velvet crotch-huggers are hard to get hold of these days, but I did think good taste never died.

Seriously, though, I think the only time I'd be disappointed by a band was if they weren't giving it their all onstage (I know everyone has off days, but most people at gigs have made an effort to get there and are paying for the privilege...).

When it comes to bad albums... I stop listening, but don't feel sad about the lost potential. I do remember being sad aged about 8 (1996) when I discovered that my hero Paul McCartney no longer looked like he did in 1965, and later I felt gutted in retrospect that Gabriel left Genesis. But yanno, if the ideas/energy/team spirit are gone, then what else can be done? The good stuff is still there to be appreciated, after all. Actually, there's so much fantastic music out there to be discovered that it's not really any loss to find out that a band is done with being good; you can just let them get on with it and look elsewhere...

-------------Stop me from dreaming?
Okay :-(

Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: March 21 2013 at 16:38

that's Howe being very nice lol--he's notoriously aloof----of course he wouldn't shake my hand when I met him but he barely wanted to speak.

Posted By: happythe
Date Posted: March 23 2013 at 11:10

twosteves wrote:

that's Howe being very nice lol--he's notoriously aloof----of course he wouldn't shake my hand when I met him but he barely wanted to speak.

I had read before going to his show that he didn't shake people's hands, and I saw him dodge someone else's handshake whilst I was waiting in line! Needless to say, I didn't offer mine. But yeah, he must have been in a good mood that day, because he was also quite chatty about the Syndicats 45 I brought for him to sign. (He signed one side as himself and scrawled Ray Fenwick's name on the other, "because I didn't play on that one".)