mpolo wrote:You can also do a "Ninja Edit", if more posts have come between writing your post and hitting Submit (the forum software usually informs you of this).

And I find myself in Day one paralysis. I suppose it's helpful to throw votes around, as it can root out over-defensive players, but on the other hand, I generally don't vote unless I really believe something is wrong with the person voting. That's just me.

Regarding vanilla town claims -- that's kind of the default claim for everyone anyway. However, putting it in writing might skew the scum not to pick that person to kill, as jimbob says. And this thing is getting really winey in my head just in trying to write it out, so I'm dropping it. In any case, I'm not planning on claiming any time soon.

mpolo wrote:[quote="LaserGuy"His posting feels like it's trying to discourage people from generating content. Eg. here, he discourages people from even talking about No Lynch. While I know this argument has been discussed ad nauseum in other games, in a newbie game, I think it's perfectly reasonable to go over this again if people are so inclined, especially given the dearth of D1 content. He expresses similar sentiments about random voting in this post.

I've been in too many newbie games where the first person to suggest no lynch was immediately lynched here. It is almost impossible to turn that wagon around once it starts. If somebody wants to go through that, be my guest. I just thought I would save newbies from the extremely hardened meta against NL on this forum. (The argument is that mathematically, town has better chances even with a random lynch on D1. If you look hard enough, you'll find it discussed ad naseum here in the forum.)

I said that there probably is a value to random voting, but I don't do it. I even said that that's just me. Sorry, I just don't do it.[/quote]WIFOM. Hard WIFOM.

- I am baffled by DethStalker's 'case' on mpolo, seems like some absolute misrepresentation of facts (or just newbie not playing attention)- I don't like heuristically_alone's defense of "I was just fooling around". That is an easy cop-out for any scummy content.- flicky seems to be okay.

Vote would be on heuristically_alone but I don't want to put anyone at L-2 just yet.

What I intended to say was this: No-Lynch favors scum in a game like this one (except possibly in certain late-game moments) and many people on this forum know that, so they often overreact when someone suggests it. Thus I suggested, perhaps too strongly, that no one suggest this strategy.

Similarly, the other statement seems to have been misconstrued: What I said was that I admit that there is some value in random voting, but I generally don't take part in it, preferring to vote after I actually suspect someone. Which is exactly what I did in this game.

My current gut feeling is that Dethstalker thought he could tunnel on a townie who had already been attacked by another townie and get a lynch by twisting the statements out of context.

This has me with Dethstalker and heuristically_alone as scum, and feeling even more confident that LaserGuy is town. I am willing to move my vote to Dethstalker, but want to give him a chance to answer this.

I thought that there is no way scum!DethStalker would post what he did as it was so transparent but to be honest I see no reason why town!DethStalker would post it either. Newbie scum is probably a better explanation than newbie misguided town so on second thought I'm happy to switch to him.

mpolo wrote:It seems to me that Dethstalker is just trying to twist what I wrote.

What I intended to say was this: No-Lynch favors scum in a game like this one (except possibly in certain late-game moments) and many people on this forum know that, so they often overreact when someone suggests it. Thus I suggested, perhaps too strongly, that no one suggest this strategy.

Similarly, the other statement seems to have been misconstrued: What I said was that I admit that there is some value in random voting, but I generally don't take part in it, preferring to vote after I actually suspect someone. Which is exactly what I did in this game.

My current gut feeling is that Dethstalker thought he could tunnel on a townie who had already been attacked by another townie and get a lynch by twisting the statements out of context.

This has me with Dethstalker and heuristically_alone as scum, and feeling even more confident that LaserGuy is town. I am willing to move my vote to Dethstalker, but want to give him a chance to answer this.

Yeah no. Your just correcting that statement and what I wrote is what you meant.

DethStalker wrote:Yeah no. Your just correcting that statement and what I wrote is what you meant.

Mpolo's words, as bolded by you:

mpolo wrote:As it usually comes up in newbie games here, a no-lynch is generally seen as a bad thing here, as the town gets no information out of it. There are some specific situations (particularly when there is an even number of players and endgame is approaching), but that is not now. So don't suggest it, please.

To which you replied:

DethStalker wrote:No-lynching is worse then lynching.A NL can be done where there is a MyLo to make it LyLo, not earlier on.

Seems to me like these two are differently worded versions of the same idea, but it's possible I don't quite grasp the subtleties of the English language as well as I think I do.

Sorry for the delay in this - I've been busier than expected. This post was composed in bits and pieces throughout the day.

Right, DethStalker failed to answer my questions, and Jbby has gone AWOL, but time is running out, so here's my promised explanation/response about my questions. As is often the case when there's not much happening D1 (and sometimes later in the game), I posted some questions for discussion. Often, as was the case here, I'm not really interested in the who, but rather the reasons behind them. Alternatively, sometimes the questions spark discussion, as they did here. Here are my thoughts on each of the responses, along with a bit of a reads list (I don't have time for my usual style):

Sabrar called me out on my second question quite fairly, I think. Whilst my intention, as noted earlier, was to phrase it to remove the risk of power-town slips, I can see how I may not have been entirely successful. Either way, I tentatively like this challenge (it could still come from scum!Sabrar, but overall, I'm not getting that vibe). Moderately townie.

LaserGuy comes next with some counter questions. In response: Town typically will post their townie reads as well as scummy reads. I expected most players to post therefore their current towniest read, but was interested to see if anybody would post anything else. It also helps to build up connections that are useful to look back on later in the game. (Hopefully that addresses your concerns, let me know if I missed anything). Whilst I disagree with LaserGuy's concerns, I don't see them being brought up by scum!LG, so he's in my townie bucket.

As others have noted, heuristically_alone was unhelpful, and confusing. I cannot understand why he would make such a statement. If he had issues with my question, he should have said so. Note that he didn't explain which was the bad answer initially, and took some prodding to do so eventually. I also don't understand what he means by "Town isn't ready for that information yet". Aside from this, his contributions to the thread have been minimal. His suspicion of Sabrar seems weird, especially given that Sabrar had already posted before heury's response with concerns about my second question (yet he later says that he doesn't think we are on the same team). Basically, he's been inconsistent and unhelpful, so I full support him as a lynch candidate.

somitomi responded to my second question, but neither of the other two, without any stated reason, until I pressed him for it. Eventually, he explained that it was basically for similar reasons to what LaserGuy had said previously. Given that somitomi is new, I'm willing to let the sheeping slide for now, but he really should have explained this up-front. He shows similar signs of sheeping other people to a lesser extent elsewhere. Slightly scummy, but not significantly so. Hopefully will start posting some original opinions at some point.

flicky's response is also basically the same as others, without any original explanation initially. His comments on mpolo are in a similar vein (following the crowd). He fixes this with his follow-up comments and a reasonable reads list that more or less matches my own, so leaning town overall.

Mpolo is about the only person to answer all three questions. I've seen nothing objectionable in his reasoning or other comments, so putting him as leaning town for now.

Jbby as noted earlier hasn't responded to me or anybody else for that matter, so there's nothing I can really say about him.

DethStalker is at least posting more than last game (admittedly after prodding), but he clearly isn't paying attention to what he's saying. I actually think it's slightly more likely that he's actually Town with the incorrect comments about mpolo, than Scum, but I don't know him well enough to really judge.

I'm most confident about scum!heuristically_alone, so will vote for him before deadline, probably, pending more thinking on mpolo and DethStalker.

To answer my own questions:1.I'd say somebody generally accepted as townie by everybody, such as flicky or LaserGuy is most likely to get killed.2. I haven't looked at the setup possibilities, but the tracker/doctor option sounds good (if it exists)3. Heuristically_alone and somitomi, are my current scum picks.

Town to scum list:LaserGuyFlickySabrarMpoloDethStalkerJbbySomitomiHeuristically_alone

Madge wrote:(fixed by editing, because as the moderator I have exclusive use of the edit button!)

1) If scum had a Kill ability that they had to use, right now, who do you think they would kill, and why? Someone who has towncred/PR2) If you could choose one of the possible setups, which would it be, and why? <---Yeah not answering3) If you had to choose TWO people who you thought were scum right now, who would it be, and why? Mpolo and ___Gut and wanting town to NL

mpolo wrote:* tweet tweet *I am here for the council of the birds. Now, despite the coolness of the Egyptian god Thoth, I think we all agree that his progeny have gotten truly out of hand here.

OK, I'm not going to be able to keep up much flavor. As this game is fairly vanilla, we need to really make an effort to keep posting, even if we don't see much to post about.

As it usually comes up in newbie games here, a no-lynch is generally seen as a bad thing here, as the town gets no information out of it. There are some specific situations (particularly when there is an even number of players and endgame is approaching), but that is not now. So don't suggest it, please.

Please reread my comment. I said precisely the opposite: I said that no one should bring up the idea of No-Lynch because it hurts town statistically except in certain late game situation. If English is not your first language, maybe I expressed that confusingly. If it is, I suspect you misread what you think you read.

jimbobmacdoodle wrote:As others have noted, heuristically_alone was unhelpful, and confusing. I cannot understand why he would make such a statement. If he had issues with my question, he should have said so. Note that he didn't explain which was the bad answer initially, and took some prodding to do so eventually. I also don't understand what he means by "Town isn't ready for that information yet". Aside from this, his contributions to the thread have been minimal. His suspicion of Sabrar seems weird, especially given that Sabrar had already posted before heury's response with concerns about my second question (yet he later says that he doesn't think we are on the same team). Basically, he's been inconsistent and unhelpful, so I full support him as a lynch candidate.

I was accused of the same thing in another game on this site and I wasn't mafia. Granted I was Jester, so not sure if that helps my case....

I loke the soft defense on Dethstalker. If Dethstalker flips scum, For me that makes you look scummier. If he flips town, then neutral.

I dont think it is uncommon at all for someone to find two people as scummy (example: jimbob and sabrar) but also realize that based on game onterations only one of them could be scum. Also, going back and reading I cant find again what Sabrar said that pinged me. Frustrating. So Sabrar is neutral for now with my subconscience leaning slightly scummy.

One of you is going to be lynched tonight. You should be thinking about claiming.

Disagree, possibility of being lynched is not enough reason to claim when there is soft deadline with lots of people potentially online during it to switch last minute.With a second lynch-target ready to go claim should only come (in my opinion) during the last half hour of the day.

At the beginning of the game the only 2 players that didn't do any setup speculation/discussion are jimbob and jbby. (Not saying that means anything, just that I fiund it interesting.

Reads scummy to not so scummy

Dethstalker- see previous posts

Jimbob- see previous posts

Jbby- supposedly has played plenty of mafia and starts out by making an excuse for the lurking he will do at d1. There is a difference between players that just lurk (see somitomi) and players that almost seem to be strategocally lurking

Somitomi- hasn't participated much, but has strived to give content when posting, giving opinioms about setup. Lurking worries me but more likely like me on my first game ever, just didn't know what to say so didnt say much

Sabrar- usually a town leader in any game regardless of alignment. Something bothers me though. Almost as if holding back a little more than usual.

Flicky- conveniently changed his avatar to a bird just for this game. Trying to fit with bird/town flavor. Very deceitful. Rather liked his input on the setup at the beginning.

Laserguy- his line of thinking has been pretty similar to mine (other than the fact that he wants to vote me). He thought the same thing as me on dethstalker, and he also didnt like jimbob's first question

Mpolo- has a great presence in the game. Pushing town in the right direction, trying to get answers. Also same line of thinking on Dethstalker

Heury- vanilla town. No hard feelings if you lynch me as you will not be losing a PR. At least I hope my death gives you enough valuable info on other players to help you win. I am so used to getting lynched D1.

heuristically_alone wrote:Sabrar- Almost as if holding back a little more than usual.

This is a valid observation and it has exactly 2 reasons:1. Game is mainly for the sake of newbies and I'm trying very hard not to steal the spotlight.2. Above is luckily faciliated by the fact that I'm on holiday and not online 16 hours a day. Phone posting is cumbersome.

Gone back over DethStalker's posts a bit more, and I stand by my earlier statements about leaning town on him. Although he completely misrepresents mpolo, I'm of the opinion that is a misunderstanding or misreading of what mpolo is saying. It's too brazen to come from scum deliberately. It's also completely different to his D1 contributions in his last game (where he was scum). I could be wrong (and I'll look super scummy, if I am), but I don't think I am. My biggest concern is with his responses to my earlier questions:

DethStalker wrote:1) If scum had a Kill ability that they had to use, right now, who do you think they would kill, and why? Someone who has towncred/PR2) If you could choose one of the possible setups, which would it be, and why? <---Yeah not answering3) If you had to choose TWO people who you thought were scum right now, who would it be, and why? Mpolo and ___Gut and wanting town to NL

@DethStalker:I don't understand why you don't properly answer my question 1 or 2, but I'm not going to push it. However, you only half answered my third question. Why? If you had to name a second scum player or get immediately killed, who would it be?

Also reread heuristically_alone, and my opinion of him hasn't improved. Since there are no jesters in the setup (I assume, somebody please point it out If there are), previous play as a jester doesn't count for squat, since you would never deliberately act scummy in this setup unless you were a town PR trying to avoid the NK (and you already claimed vanilla, so you aren't, I expect). My earlier statements about him therefore still stand, and his reads list is not exactly spectacular, so he remains my yip scum pick.