Of course, 4K drives are nothing compared to SSDs which require even more special alignment to a block (128-256k).

Well, as soon as MS ends all access to support and Windows/Microsoft update, that stubborn XP might finally take the slide in numbers it has defied. Does XP still have access to updates? I've got a few dormant XP units around that I should update, if it's still an option.

The delicate issue with the blanket statement of "Linux=no problem", is that TiVo is a "Tivoized" Linux OS (take a look on Wikipedia, and you'll find that term and an article all about it). I understand that this whole APM - Apple Partition M(whatever it actually stands for), is yet some other TiVoized part of the mix, which I think is where the problem lies...

I don't want to go Off-Topic... But you brought up SSDs, which are giant flash drives. How does one take a USB (flash memory) stick, and determine what sector size to format it with, other than trial-and-error, by measuring what sector size gives the best read/write times? Is there a tool that can "suss" that information out? Sometimes you just can't go to a website and get that info, especially when many of the drives give no indication of who even made any one part of the whole. I know Windows 8 can somehow figure it out. I just started with Win7, and Win8 isn't for me at all...

Updates to XP will continue until April 8, 2014. After that it will still run fine but without ongoing security patches I'd probably limit my use of it to running older software and keep it away from the internet.

You have to copy block0 and the APM as well as the everything in the other partitions otherwise the tivo will not boot. I am surprised that dd actually copied the partitions individually. As a general rule, the TiVo drive is not a standard anything drive. It is not a standard apple drive, Linux drive, Windows drive. Consequently, unless something is specifically written to access a tivo drive, no standard OS tool will work. In JMFS, the dd command works because it is doing a raw copy that is agnostic to what is on the drive.

Did you mod the actual TiVo drive? What were the sizes of the img files you created for each partition.

Since I restored a truncated image to the drive first, there was no need to copy block 0. I didn't copy the APM, as that would overwrite the corrected partition table I created with the original one.

Could you post the MFSinfo information on your modified drive.
Just so I understand your process, you first restored the truncated image, backed up each partition, modified the partition structure with pdisk, then restored each partition.
I like that. :thumbup: Did not even think out using dd on a tivo drive that way. It's a good day when you learn something new. Much easier to do it that way than with iBored as it is more automated.

__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

Just so I understand your process, you first restored the truncated image, backed up each partition, modified the partition structure with pdisk, then restored each partition.
I like that. Did not even think out using dd on a tivo drive that way. It's a good day when you learn something new. Much easier to do it that way than with iBored as it is more automated.

Since you started out with a 1TB drive and you expanded the bootstrap partitions, what partition(s) did you short to get the extra space to expand the bootstrap partitions.

A couple of things come to mind with your OP problem. One, the truncated backup could be damaged from the rebooting issue. Might try a backup from another source. The other might be capacitors that are going bad and need to be replaced. (That was my problem).

One last thing. Some drive diagnostics program can/will 'recertify' a failing drive as it is testing it such that it may pass diagnostics again. See if you have a program that will check to see if a drive has been reassigning any sectors. There has to be enough reassigning of sectors for the SMART to trigger but the dynamic reallocation of sectors can also cause some of the same problems.

__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

Since you started out with a 1TB drive and you expanded the bootstrap partitions, what partition(s) did you short to get the extra space to expand the bootstrap partitions.

Partition #14, Apple_Free Extra, shrunk from 1390 to 1376.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmbach

A couple of things come to mind with your OP problem. One, the truncated backup could be damaged from the rebooting issue. Might try a backup from another source. The other might be capacitors that are going bad and need to be replaced. (That was my problem).

I restored the truncated backup to the original drive and it's been running great for the past 2 days. I don't think that backup is the issue.

The capacitors are not bulging or leaking. Since it's working fine with the original drive, I'd guess that the capacitors are probably fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmbach

One last thing. Some drive diagnostics program can/will 'recertify' a failing drive as it is testing it such that it may pass diagnostics again. See if you have a program that will check to see if a drive has been reassigning any sectors. There has to be enough reassigning of sectors for the SMART to trigger but the dynamic reallocation of sectors can also cause some of the same problems.

DVR_DUDE's 2TB drives for the TCD746320 Premiere, and TCD652160 HD both have apple_free spaces on them as well.

I wonder if there is a legitimate need for them...

Not really. I read in another post that the extra space came because they used a smaller swap partition when they image a drive. (64 instead of 128) In fact, one person had a replacement drive for their TiVo from one of them and JMFS expansion process was not recognized by the tivo until that apple_free partition was deleted and then jmfs expansion was performed. For TiVos that WinMFS and MFSLive work on, they recognize that the apple_free partition is really just free space and uses it to expand. JMFS does not and creates the expansion partition after the apple_free space (partition).

__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

Not really. I read in another post that the extra space came because they used a smaller swap partition when they image a drive. (64 instead of 128) In fact, one person had a replacement drive for their TiVo from one of them and JMFS expansion process was not recognized by the tivo until that apple_free partition was deleted and then jmfs expansion was performed. For TiVos that WinMFS and MFSLive work on, they recognize that the apple_free partition is really just free space and uses it to expand. JMFS does not and creates the expansion partition after the apple_free space (partition).

Could the apple_free space, if not at the end of the drive, be used as a means to achieve 4K alignment (in partitions after the apple_free space)? Could you have multiple areas of apple_free space used as "spacers" to nudge alignment?

I've been wondering this for a long time, and just now thought to post it.

Updates to XP will continue until April 8, 2014. After that it will still run fine but without ongoing security patches I'd probably limit my use of it to running older software and keep it away from the internet.

It's had a hell of a run.

Partially correct. XP left mainstream support on April 14, 2009. This means that XP will no longer get any feature updates at all. Right now, Microsoft is providing 5 extra years of "extended support" which means the only thing XP is getting is security updates.

During mainstream support, it'll get feature improvements and security updates. After that phase passes, it's in extended support where there are no more feature improvements (including things like new IE versions and such) but it will still get security fixes.

And that Apple_Free partition is leftover space that can't be used - it's not terribly big (about 768k or so), just the result of partitioning ending up with free space.

I admit though, when I copied my TiVo drive to a new drive, I didn't bother realigning the partitions - the MFS data partition is written in such huge strips (1MB or so - about a second of video) that any performance loss due to the Read-Modify-Write will be minimal, if at all (because writes are cached, so if another write happens, it'll update the whole sector anyhow).

Of course, the MFS application region is a bigger concern because the updates to it will be slower.

Then again, the TiVo doesn't exactly demand a lot of performance from the hard drive...

Could the apple_free space, if not at the end of the drive, be used as a means to achieve 4K alignment (in partitions after the apple_free space)? Could you have multiple areas of apple_free space used as "spacers" to nudge alignment?

I've been wondering this for a long time, and just now thought to post it.

That is a good use of the apple_free partition. However you don't need any apple_free partitions between partitions. The best approach is what was described in an earlier post. You can make the partitions bigger without causing problems, just cannot make them smaller. The extra space in the partitions is ignored.

__________________
"Delay is preferable to error" - Thomas Jefferson
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants" - Sir Isaac Newton

Could the apple_free space, if not at the end of the drive, be used as a means to achieve 4K alignment (in partitions after the apple_free space)? Could you have multiple areas of apple_free space used as "spacers" to nudge alignment?

I've been wondering this for a long time, and just now thought to post it.

Yes, you can. The Apple_Free partitions are just APM's way of marking free space.

At the risk of being totally off-base (having not kept up with state-of-the-art), aren't there jumpers on the WD10EURX drive dealing with Advanced Format? Is there any need to consider how the jumpers are set?

At the risk of being totally off-base (having not kept up with state-of-the-art), aren't there jumpers on the WD10EURX drive dealing with Advanced Format? Is there any need to consider how the jumpers are set?

From the WD website:

"Early 3.5-inch WD drives with Advanced Format supported jumper pins 7 – 8. Placing a jumper on these pins adjusted the drive’s internal alignment for single partition XP installations. Support for this jumper setting is no longer needed on newer drives."

So, this setting won't help since TiVo, and Linux in general, uses multiple partitions.