Thanks for the quote. Indeed I did not say he said he was the greatest.

This is a trait for Alonso, he throws in these little snippets but I guess it's just that English isn't his first language.

"Herald" might have been the wrong choice of a word if you want to nit pick, but the implication is there for all to see. Even for you.

I thought Alonso's general point was very fair, namely that for a lot of people it's not just about the numbers of titles won but how you win them. Frankly, this seems hard to argue with or everyone would just agree 100% that Michael Schumacher must be the greatest driver of all time because he won the most titles and Stirling Moss was some total loser.

For instance, Nigel Mansell was one of my all time favourite drivers and I'm very glad he won a title because I think he was a truly great driver. But citing his title for 1992 as evidence of that would be a bit like trying to demonstrate the value of Al Pacino as a great actor by pointing to his Best Actor Oscar, which he won for Scent of a Woman but got nothing for The Godfather or Dog Day Afternoon etc. So in other words, it's not that the rewards given are meaningless or undeserved to those who receive them but their allocation doesn't always tell the whole story either.

I would not call it out of this world that Fernando is called by people on the streets "gladiator" or "samurai". It is up to the simplicity/naivety or sophistication of the fan in question to call Fer thus. And if they do, no coincidence, after all, Fernando is projecting this image already for a while.

If we find it fitting or going a little bit too far is another question - it shows to me that many drivers, Fernando included, enter the sport at a very young age and have their teens sacrificed to the sport. So part of teenager behaviour shows up in later years - this samurai fandom and to genuinely identify with that role model is such a behavior.

It somehow reminds me of Lewis identifying with Ayrton earlier on in his career (before he got much flak for it) and it rings Senna on another note as well: Ayrton was seen by many fans in Japan as the reincarnation of a samurai. Maybe this romantic idea stuck in Fernando's subconsciousness....

Very honest assessment from Mark and putting wounds to rest. He is a real friend of Fer but also encourages him with these words to get 2012 behind him and be there in 2013 - in the end the result is what it is - the bare numbers count in the end.

Gotta admit that's one of the few things I wish he had rather not said.

It's not really big deal, in Spain this over the top adjetives or words to descrive sportmen are normal, el puto amo, el jefe, el galactico, there are many many examples, of course the samurai thing it has been encouraged by him, but it's just a way to tell him that he never gives up. I guess it's easy to twist to make him look bad, the same goes for the "I'm one of the best" phrase.

By the way he said this in Spanish:

"Ojalá cuando me retire, se me considere uno de los mejores"

"Hopefully when I retire, I will be considered one of the best"

So I wonder if the journos are trying to spin this, because he didn't said anything like I'm the best or one of the best to the Spanish press.

It's not really big deal, in Spain this over the top adjetives or words to descrive sportmen are normal, el puto amo, el jefe, el galactico, there are many many examples, of course the samurai thing it has been encouraged by him, but it's just a way to tell him that he never gives up. I guess it's easy to twist to make him look bad, the same goes for the "I'm one of the best" phrase.

By the way he said this in Spanish:

By the way he said this in Spanish:

QUOTE"Ojalá cuando me retire, se me considere uno de los mejores"

"Hopefully when I retire, I will be considered one of the best"

So I wonder if the journos are trying to spin this, because he didn't said anything like I'm the best or one of the best to the Spanish press.

"Hopefully when I retire, I will be considered one of the best"

So I wonder if the journos are trying to spin this, because he didn't said anything like I'm the best or one of the best to the Spanish press.

In fact, "Ojalá" translates more as "I wish", so an alternative transtalion would be "I wish that when I retire, I would be considered one of the best".

Thanks for the quote. Indeed I did not say he said he was the greatest.

[...]

You indeed did imply so in the other thread. If you didnt mean that then your other post is senseless, specially because of the comparison you did in your first phrase. Vettel didn't say openly that he regards himself as one of the greatest, and Alonso did not either. That's it.

If there was any confusion in the other thread why I said what I did. Now you can tackle on the semantics and what not, but to me its a pretty clear what he implied, and hence my comment.

Funny how you seem to assume a lot about what "Alonso implies or not" but you try to slip away with what you say.

What a stupid 'full-of-myself' statement from Alonso! You know there was marshal post there. Without knowing there was a yellow flag how can you question? You cannot be as ignorant as internet fans who think that the flags that they saw are the only ones out there. Samurai, gladiator, non-sense, whoever thought like that totally changed their minds after this shameless attitude.

I too dream of the day that everyone learns to handle loss with the simple good grace of Helmut Marko. It must have been someone else I recall screaming about mad conspiracies in Valenicia involving the safety car being deployed solely to spoil Vettel's race.

But there is a difference with Alonso, he has not the best car and still fighting. This year for example, when Red Bull was only a bit better than Ferrari, Vettel was 44 points behind Alonso, and he need again a strong dominant car to win races and take the championship. I have seen Schumacher in the 3rd car, and finish about 70 less than the champion in a 10 point per victory championship. If Michael in 2005 was finished 7-8 points behind Alonso he would have won my respect more than with 7 titles.

Fernando also had the 3rd best car in 2011, what happened there? Third best car in year X and third best car in year Y isn´t always the same.And btw. bringing Michael Schumacher into the equation to exemplify Fernando´s superior skills, isn´t the really best move. That guy went into the title decider as WDC-leader once against a far superior Williams car - and as you mentioned points systems: He would´ve even won that WDC under the current system, while his teammate would´ve finished 9th.

Alonso thinks he is the best driver on the grid. He doesn't seem to care about what other people outside his circle think about certain episodes of his F1 life and his behaviour off the track. He is pretty successfull with it and does say so.

In the end pretty little has chanced in this sense since his Renault days - and he is still a fine driver who got the job done 2 out 3 times with the best car and came very close with an slower but more reliable one in two occasions. Without doubt one of the best drivers of his generation.

Thanks for the quote. Indeed I did not say he said he was the greatest.

This is a trait for Alonso, he throws in these little snippets but I guess it's just that English isn't his first language.

"Herald" might have been the wrong choice of a word if you want to nit pick, but the implication is there for all to see. Even for you.

You can see below is is quoted as saying "he wishes" when he's done with F1 he will be considered one of the greats.

In fact, "Ojalá" translates more as "I wish", so an alternative transtalion would be "I wish that when I retire, I would be considered one of the best".

Gotta admit that's one of the few things I wish he had rather not said.

Sometimes I almost feel the same, but I think most of it is to do with different cultural backgrounds and even more so the language difference and how things get lost in translation. Which I think is fair to say. Many times a phrase in language a does not carry the same weight/mean the same thing in language b. but that's just my take on it.

Edit: here you can see it was a press conference and not a speech he wrote

Being Spanish, I read that sentence as saying that even though he didn't win, he perceives the support of the people in Spain.
I agree that reading the same sentence in English it seems a bit strange as it becomes more neutral, but in reality it's not such a weird thing to say. I guess in Spanish the samurai thing reads as an anecdote to prove a point (it's warming to see the people support through things like being jokingly called samurai while walking in the street), while in English it seems like it's the point (he's happy to be acknowledged as a samurai in the street )

What a stupid 'full-of-myself' statement from Alonso! You know there was marshal post there. Without knowing there was a yellow flag how can you question? You cannot be as ignorant as internet fans who think that the flags that they saw are the only ones out there. Samurai, gladiator, non-sense, whoever thought like that totally changed their minds after this shameless attitude.

Speak for yourself. The fact that he appreciates being praised does not make me change my mind about the guy, but the fact that some forumers have taken any bit of information on Alonso/Ferrari after the Brazilian GP and used them to paint team and driver in the worst possible light ever is definitely changing my mind about the level of objectivity of said forumers. I am yet to see what dishonour or lack of sportmanship is there in asking FIA for a clarification regarding a race incident, and then to accept FIA's opinion without any further discussion.

Speak for yourself. The fact that he appreciates being praised does not make me change my mind about the guy, but the fact that some forumers have taken any bit of information on Alonso/Ferrari after the Brazilian GP and used them to paint team and driver in the worst possible light ever is definitely changing my mind about the level of objectivity of said forumers. I am yet to see what dishonour or lack of sportmanship is there in asking FIA for a clarification regarding a race incident, and then to accept FIA's opinion without any further discussion.

That is exactly what I pointed out in my previous post. There was a marshal post between the flag they saw on the video at turn 3 and the one near the end of the straight. Common fans may not know it. But the team personnel and drivers would definitely know it. They got carried away with some video circulated in internet. They either did not bother checking the marshal post between those two flag in their haste (which is bad), or they realized there was a post but entertained the doubt even though there was never any proof of yellow there. The onus is always on the doubters to be sure there was a proof to doubt. This is amateurish to say the least, and unsporting otherwise. There was never a case. Unless you are sure, I can't see how you can question it. Not the other way around.

On track, I completely get Alonso, he is a brilliant driver. Off-track I just don't get him, or why he feels the need to say certain things.

Regarding the Ferrari clarification, I felt it was to save face rather than to cause any disrepute. If they honestly required clarification, they could have done that through more secretive channels, before doing it officially - given that they chose to do the whole thing publicly leads me to feel that they wanted to do it for other reasons - not merely for the clarification itself.

That is exactly what I pointed out in my previous post. There was a marshal post between the flag they saw on the video at turn 3 and the one near the end of the straight. Common fans may not know it. But the team personnel and drivers would definitely know it. They got carried away with some video circulated in internet. They either did not bother checking the marshal post between those two flag in their haste (which is bad), or they realized there was a post but entertained the doubt even though there was never any proof of yellow there. The onus is always on the doubters to be sure there was a proof to doubt. This is amateurish to say the least, and unsporting otherwise. There was never a case. Unless you are sure, I can't see how you can question it. Not the other way around.

But that is the whole point, isn't it? They did check with FIA that there was a green flag being waved at that marshall post at the time of the overtaking, FIA said yes, and they accepted it. Yet some people find that enough reason to bash team and driver as if there was no tomorrow.

Our good friend Jenson Button has talked about Fernando again, what a surprise!, not only he said that he could give Fernando a run for his money but he also said that his best overtake in F1 was against Fernando in 2004. He also said that he would like to be his teammate but he rejected a Ferrari offer this year. I think he is obsessed.

I remember Mark Webber speaking about his great overtake of Alonso at Spa, and stating that it takes two drivers to achieve a maneouvre like that one, because you need to completely trust the other guy to do the right thing, ie, to push it to the limit but not beyond it. Webber stated that Alonso was one of the very few guys he could try that maneouvre with, because he was a great driver who knew how to play that risky game. I seem to recall Alonso at some interview mentioning Button and Webber as the two drivers he most ejoyed a head-to-head battle with. So I think it is very likely that Button feels the same, that he truly enjoyed that overtake and that he has no intention to diminish Alonso's skills with his comment, but rather the opposite.

As for him thinking he can give Alonso a run for his money I don't quite agree with him, but if he thought differently he would be better off leaving his position at McLaren to somebody who considered himself as good as the best. However he has what it takes to bring the fight to any of the other WDCs, and that is good to see.

But that is the whole point, isn't it? They did check with FIA that there was a green flag being waved at that marshall post at the time of the overtaking, FIA said yes, and they accepted it. Yet some people find that enough reason to bash team and driver as if there was no tomorrow.

I seem to recall Alonso at some interview mentioning Button and Webber as the two drivers he most ejoyed a head-to-head battle with.

Did he really said that about Mark? He´s been pushed to the grass and late blocked by him so many times that friend or not, surely he won´t enjoy racing him.

Add Suzuka 2005, which I can´t find a video about.

Mark should learn to cover the inside earlier and better, he half covers just when people try getting alongside, and then shuts the door. I wouldn´t have him in my "it´s nice to race him" list, unlike Jenson.

Did he really said that about Mark? He´s been pushed to the grass and late blocked by him so many times that friend or not, surely he won´t enjoy racing him.

Add Suzuka 2005, which I can´t find a video about.

Mark should learn to cover the inside earlier and better, he half covers just when people try getting alongside, and then shuts the door. I wouldn´t have him in my "it´s nice to race him" list, unlike Jenson.

Unless I am very much mistaken you are not an F1 WDC, so I'll give a bit more credit to Alonso's opinion

Unless I am very much mistaken you are not an F1 WDC, so I'll give a bit more credit to Alonso's opinion ;)

Thank God there´s no need to be WDC to understand the principles of wheel to wheel racing, and to realize that late-blocking and pushing people to the grass on a straight doesn´t make you a popular racer.

That comment is as stupid as implying you need to win a TdF to know that riding behind another guy prevents you wasting energy.

Surely Ferrari people should be smart enough to check by themselves if there´s indeed a green flag in a marshall post in a video before start making noise.

Nonsense. Check by themselves how? Looking at endless footage in internet? Most of which is blurred by rain? For God's sake, I have even read somewhere that the slow motion gif that was presented as definitive proof had been tampered with! And while I do not necessarily buy that, I don't see why Ferrari should go around in circles instead of openly asking the question. Only those who are willing to use any excuse to diss the team would find reason for offense in such a thing. "FIA, was there a green flag there? Yes, there was one. Cool, thanks and see you in February." Quick and easy.

Thank God there´s no need to be WDC to understand the principles of wheel to wheel racing, and to realize that late-blocking and pushing people to the grass on a straight doesn´t make you a popular racer.

That comment is as stupid as implying you need to win a TdF to know that riding behind another guy prevents you wasting energy.

Of course, silly me! What is the value of real life experience, when one can be an armchair expert and achieve the same level of knowledge?

Check by themselves how? Looking at endless footage in internet? Most of which is blurred by rain?

There was not obstacle for any half-assed F1 fan in the World to have a perfectly accurate picture of the whole issue by Tuesday evening. Surely a F1 team with much better and faster access to every piece of info avaliable should have got there too, and much easier.

You indeed did imply so in the other thread. If you didnt mean that then your other post is senseless, specially because of the comparison you did in your first phrase. Vettel didn't say openly that he regards himself as one of the greatest, and Alonso did not either. That's it.

I think your confused. I said what I said and I mean it, I find it quite weird he has to sooth his own ego by referring himself as "one of the greats". This whole "greatest" thing is something you and your friend made up in your own head.

Funny how you seem to assume a lot about what "Alonso implies or not" but you try to slip away with what you say.

I'm not slipping away with anything, I never implied he said he was the best ever, just that I found it weird that he felt the need to refer to himself as "one of the greats".

I would not expect Vettel for example to feel the need to "name drop" like that, despite the fact that many people are starting to consider him as "one of the greats".

Being Spanish, I read that sentence as saying that even though he didn't win, he perceives the support of the people in Spain. I agree that reading the same sentence in English it seems a bit strange as it becomes more neutral, but in reality it's not such a weird thing to say. I guess in Spanish the samurai thing reads as an anecdote to prove a point (it's warming to see the people support through things like being jokingly called samurai while walking in the street), while in English it seems like it's the point (he's happy to be acknowledged as a samurai in the street )

Being Spanish too, completly agree. Alonso is talking about HIS feelings regarding that he is much more respected and appreciated now than in precedent years. He's not bragging of himself, but saying, in a humble way, that he feels more respected now by the whole grid (including journalists, teams, other drivers, etc) than in the past. Even in the days he was 2 times a champion...

Speaking in Spanish, and to make the story short, Alonso is saying that he's so proud about the work of the team, mechanics, engineers, team-mate, etc... He says that this one was his best season, and the only thing that failed was the car, not the engineers who built the car, nor anyone... Just that he needed a better car. No offensive words against anyone...

Alonso is blaming the car-crashes he had in Spa and Japan. No one else. Fortuite crashes. And about Brazil, he's just saying that a lot of Ferrari fans asked about the yellow-green flags-gate and then Ferrari had to ask for a clarify. Nothing else. Once FIA said that everything was alright, there was not further intention or further clarification. "I was on holydays and I heard something about green or yellow flags. I had no connections to internet, and I was enjoying my holydays and focussing in 2013 season... I heard something about, but nothing to do with it".

Being Spanish too, completly agree. Alonso is talking about HIS feelings regarding that he is much more respected and appreciated now than in precedent years. He's not bragging of himself, but saying, in a humble way, that he feels more respected now by the whole grid (including journalists, teams, other drivers, etc) than in the past. Even in the days he was 2 times a champion...

Speaking in Spanish, and to make the story short, Alonso is saying that he's so proud about the work of the team, mechanics, engineers, team-mate, etc... He says that this one was his best season, and the only thing that failed was the car, not the engineers who built the car, nor anyone... Just that he needed a better car. No offensive words against anyone...

Alonso is blaming the car-crashes he had in Spa and Japan. No one else. Fortuite crashes. And about Brazil, he's just saying that a lot of Ferrari fans asked about the yellow-green flags-gate and then Ferrari had to ask for a clarify. Nothing else. Once FIA said that everything was alright, there was not further intention or further clarification. "I was on holydays and I heard something about green or yellow flags. I had no connections to internet, and I was enjoying my holydays and focussing in 2013 season... I heard something about, but nothing to do with it".

I think your confused. I said what I said and I mean it, I find it quite weird he has to sooth his own ego by referring himself as "one of the greats". This whole "greatest" thing is something you and your friend made up in your own head.

I'm not slipping away with anything, I never implied he said he was the best ever, just that I found it weird that he felt the need to refer to himself as "one of the greats".

I would not expect Vettel for example to feel the need to "name drop" like that, despite the fact that many people are starting to consider him as "one of the greats".

In Spanish, he doesn't say "I am the best", but his wishes, when he is retired, his wish should be that he was among "of the best". "Me gustaría ser recordado como de los mejores" ("I would like to be remembered as one of the best")... He's saying that Ayrton Senna had only three WDC and Senna is the best for him. And he's saying that other driver who have more tittles are not the best ones compared to Senna. It doesn't sound as a guy bragging of himself. At least for Spanish people. Sounds so humble and nice.

In Spanish, he doesn't say "I am the best", but his wishes, when he is retired, his wish should be that he was among "of the best". "Me gustaría ser recordado como de los mejores" ("I would like to be remembered as one of the best")... He's saying that Ayrton Senna had only three WDC and Senna is the best for him. And he's saying that other driver who have more tittles are not the best ones compared to Senna. It doesn't sound as a guy bragging of himself. At least for Spanish people. Sounds so humble and nice.

I think there must be two separate interviews, or horrible translations, because I was referring to the quote posted in the other thread, where he made references to "samurai", "gladiator" and finally "to be one of the greats..." . If its an inaccurate translation I apologize, but I assumed Alonso gave one interview in English and another one you guys are referring to in Spanish.

But that is the whole point, isn't it? They did check with FIA that there was a green flag being waved at that marshall post at the time of the overtaking, FIA said yes, and they accepted it. Yet some people find that enough reason to bash team and driver as if there was no tomorrow.

It was just stupid and unnecessary to clarify things via publicity. Had the team honestly just wanted the clarification, they would've done it by just asking Charlie.Ferrari are playing the victim game by putting the "blame" to the public.

I think there must be two separate interviews, or horrible translations, because I was referring to the quote posted in the other thread, where he made references to "samurai", "gladiator" and finally "to be one of the greats..." . If its an inaccurate translation I apologize, but I assumed Alonso gave one interview in English and another one you guys are referring to in Spanish.

I guess you need to go back to school mate. You specifically said that Fernando heralds himself as one of the greats. Above you quote him perfectly, to be one of the greats. That's far different than heralding himself(proclaiming) himself as one of the greats. Forget the quote the other guys are talking about, you were absolutely incorrect with your assertion. The guy has never said, I am one of the greats, as you assert. Therefore you are simply wrong. It's black & white, no gray area here.

Hatred posts here and journalistic abuse are now too much for my little heart, I will be back in March. Being a FA fan can be difficult.

That is exactly how I feel when I come to these forums too , 85% of the threads are pretty much FA bashing threads and if they are not then someone always finds a way to make to bash FA and end up being a FA bashing thread , it appears that even that they consider FA to be a sore loser it also looks like they are sore winners , most SV /RB fans should be happy that they won and not bash Alonso at every opportunity , also a lot of bashing and trolling happens and there is a lack of moderation