Snowden reveals his motives, spy training, and patriotism in first US interview

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Last night’s extended interview between NBC News’ Brian Williams and Edward Snowden had one clear motivation for the former NSA contractor: to reach out. Snowden has thus-far spoken only to the foreign media, along with a few calls in to music festivals and tech conferences, and this has tended to reach the same few million Americans, most of whom actively seek the coverage out. NBC and Brian Williams, however, have the sort of mass appeal that has thus-far been denied to the former NSA contractor. He made good use of it, and clearly tried to appeal to a less technical sensibility.

In terms of concrete new information, there was little. Snowden has been out of the loop for a long time, and since he’s committed to let journalists release all the actual information, there’s very little he can add about the NSA itself. He does claim that the NSA has “no idea” which documents have been stolen. To clarify, while NSA hackers have almost certainly obtained a full copy of the leak handed to Glenn Greenwald and others, that leak is still encrypted and thus (ironically) locked to the NSA. Probably the most enduring new point made in this interview is that Snowden says he was trained as a spy — though he stumbles over the word a bit, his point seems to have been that the definition of “spy” has changed dramatically in the past few decades.

NBC chose to split the video up and post it online in over a dozen short pieces. More ads that way.

Snowden, with the assistance of a fairly laid-back Brian Williams, lays out the every-day implications of abstract NSA programs; he explains the power of meta data analysis in concrete terms, asking viewers to imagine the personal invasion possible with even the most passive programs. As mentioned, he goes on at length about the prospect that checking a hockey score could be an in to government snooping. He also speaks about these NSA programs as attacking American dignity, which might appeal to viewers who are generally unmoved by fears of government abuse. He claims there is a callousness to the application of surveillance in America — an emotional claim that might carry more weight with some people.

Emotion was a big part of the interview, which is surprising given the almost robotic level of calm that Snowden has displayed over the past year. He spoke openly about missing home, missing his family, and even missing his work at the NSA. Williams comments that while he gets to go home, Snowden does not. “Does that hurt you?” he asks. The fugitive’s responds that it does hurt him, but that his love of country still lets him sleep at night.

Actually, outside of the cornball patriotism, Snowden is almost comical in his attempts to remain humble. Whether by design or genuine quirk of personality, he refuses even to say that he thinks President Obama should extend him clemency; though he’ll admit he wants a pardon, he says he’s not qualified to advise the President on anything. Snowden seems to take some comfort in his martyr-like adherence to principle. His attacks on the NSA are rooted in legal and constitutional propriety, and now he seems to cling to procedure like a life preserver.

Overall, it’s clear why Snowden’s lawyers agreed to this interview: while it’s not a complete soft-ball, it works very efficiently to humanize the former public servant to a wide and diverse audience, one made up of people less politically skewed than Redditors or TED attendees. As if to try to offset this inherently helpful view of his subject, Brian Williams spent most of his narration time mentioning how “so many Americans” think Snowden is a traitor and a coward who has materially harmed American security.

If nothing else, this interview (and its social media companion presence) drive that point home: to much of America, Edward Snowden is a monster. Last night’s NBC interview was aimed at addressing those people. In the coming days and weeks, we’ll see whether or not it worked.

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Mr. S is not a monster and he does not deserve being glibly torn to pieces by congressional jackals.

http://rednetworkblog.net Térence Vigan

Snowden may not be a monster. But he is the narcissistic type anyway, this interview confirms it, for me at least. The MOST dangerous type when it comes to take long term decisions.

I really think he didn’t do what he did because he wanted to help, he did it because he wanted to be known. A very bad example to follow. He could have made it pass as a leak and stay anonymous. If he was a “technical specialist”, I’m pretty sure he could have done that.

Justin

Snowden is a true patriot and hero.

Ray C

I don’t think Snowden is a hero at all. I just don’t buy into the line of thinking that everyone has to know everything. Yes, there are probably some things that need to be brought to light. Everything the government does is not something they need to be doing, but at the same time some things need to remain secret. We don’t need to know EVERYTHING the government is doing and neither do other countries.

Dozerman

Agreed about the top part. There is a very fine line between transparency and vomiting everything out, although I don’t think that Snowden crossed that line.

Max

Well, what you are saying that he should accept the injustices our country is ready to lay on him because he decided to blow the whistle on the criminal activity of our country on its own people? Your logic makes no sense. Why would any reasonable person put themselves at the cross hairs of the corrupt powerful in our country? You would have to be an idiot. He is not an idiot. He did the best thing. By staying out of the grasps of our law, they aren’t able to shut him up and take him out of the spotlight like they did with Bradley Manning. Who talks about him anymore? Exactly!

dc

Agreed whether he is a narcissist or not is not relevant and simply detracts from the message.

sketchbag

Well lets also realize that, according to snowden and his journalistic pals, he does not possess any documents now. He doesnt need to keep talking, all of the information is being disseminated over time by journalists and he has no more role to play in releasing documents. They were bulk handed off (most likely from a cloud account or a usb drive, uber encrypted). greenwald once said how at first he thought snowden was a maniac because he put a towel or something under the hotel room door, and covered his laptop and head with a towel while he entered his credentials to access the documents in the first place. but they seem legit, and it confirms his paranoia :)

Max

Why wouldn’t you keep talking if the injustices in our country haven’t changed? That’s what being an activist means, to stay active against whatever the unjust subject it is you are against still remains.

sketchbag

I wasnt commenting on what he ought to do, but simply on the necessity for him to carry documents with him. it would be risky to do so. he unleashed the files, again, according to him and his journalist connects, in their entirety. it would be mad to have them any longer than that.

Matt Menezes

If everyone doesn’t need to know everything, than the gov’t doesn’t need to know every person an innocent civilian has called.

I have mixed emotions on Snowden. While I feel like a lot of what he has “revealed” was kind of common sense (the gov’t spies, really?!? /s), his leaks did validate the suspicions that what you do in the digital age is monitored. I think he probably could have done it differently so as to not put anyone in the field in danger or to hurt diplomatic ties to other countries, but if he used the traditional whistle-blower routes, we’d probably never hear about it. For every pro, I can find a con.

dc

Always new people showing up to post when there is a spin to be delivered to the peons.

qmn m

“and neither do other countries.”

Thank you for deciding what other countries do or do not want, asshole. It would have been less sad if you didnt claim to love democracy.

Max

Running away is the best thing he ever did. We still talk about him and he is still speaking out and our justice system can’t railroad him like they did Bradley Manning and shut him up and throw away the key. He is brave and smart and because he avoided the law he will keep us focused on the task at hand. Change our country for the better!

Kev Vikanova

I think the danger of someone like Snowden is that even if you believe that he somehow hasn’t harmed U.S. security, he nevertheless is : 1) a traitor, 2) a thief, 3) sneaky and untrustworthy, 4) inspiring others to do the same but perhaps without as much “care” as Snowden claims to have to taken or with the same noble intentions.

And its point 4 which is the most dangerous. I would concede that Snowden is clearly a very bright if not outright brilliant mind but his imitators may not be nor may be as high minded as he presents himself to be. Do you really want spies/workers inside of these agencies deciding what information they swore to keep confidential leaked?

Many spies during the cold war, particularly at the beginning, were not motivated by greed but by genuine beliefs that communism really was a better, more humane system of government and that capitalism was inherently wrong and exploitative – many people still believe that today about capitalism. Those spies were not that fundamentally dissimilar to Snowden and they believed they were “evening the playing field” to protect communism from the capitalist west. This is effectively what Snowden claims to be doing: “outting” the NSA in order to inform/forewarn/forearm global citizenry and indirectly undermine NSA policies and practices he feels are wrong.

Mo Friedrich

Do you really want government agencies watching every step you take?! Oh, sorry, I forgot, you’re american, you don’t give a flying fuck about my rights as I come frome a foreign country! Thank you very much, asshole!

jqbecker

What country do you live in?

Mo Friedrich

Germany.

jqbecker

Mo, while I agree with your original comment about how the attention is taken away from the fact of spying by USA, I disagree that the US is the sole perpetrator of spying. You could as easily be angry with Russia, China, Iran…. et. al. Do you mean to say Germany has no spy apparatus? Doubtful.

Mo Friedrich

That’s not what I wanted to say.. In fact, I am angry with Russia, China, [...], and especially germany. I know these countries are trying to capture every last bit traveling the fiber cables.
Nevertheless you would not expect your “friends” to spy on you, and to lie about every part of it, while looking you straight in the eye. As the USA did.
What makes me sad is my own government, crawling in the dirt, licking Obamas boots – they even start to discuss new measures of surveillance again.
What makes me sad is the common US citizen, who does nothing against this, still stupidly waving their flag. Everytime I hear them saying “this is not what we want, it’s the government, we have no control over this” — you do know you vote for these guys?
What makes me sad is humanity wasting time on this. There are no statistics prooving the need for mass surveillance, at least I never found one.

jqbecker

Mo, I wish there was not a need to spy, but spying is as old as civilization itself. I am a “common US citizen”, and I welcome the spying.
I respect your opinion, but suggest you should do two things: 1) take off the rose-colored glasses, and 2) pause a moment to reflect on what happened here on 9/11 in New York, Pennsylvania, and the Pentagon, perhaps you forgot about that? Better information and more coordination between US agencies would have prevented that.
In my view, spying is just as valid a defense of keeping the peace as is building a poison gas or radiation detector, which the US is also doing. Are you not for peace?

Mo Friedrich

I’m not naive. I work as a security admin.
Spying definitely is a valid and – sadly – needed tool for crime prevention and warfare. But I refuse the thought that every single person on the planet has to be constantly and completely spied on and captured in datacenters. That’s not only a 1984-esque danger because that power can and will be and probably already is being missused for economic espionage and policital motives.
No, think about the impact on society once the data collection is publicly accepted, then sold to the highest bidder, as insurance companies, banks or your next employer. People often call this too pessimistic and too far away, but it is the only next logical thing.
I agree with you on the last paragraph. Spying is a valid defense. But only if agencies focus on their targets, not on a billion innocents metadata.

PS. Something I find pretty fascinating is the difference between germany and the USA towards two things: We value the right to privacy as high as you do the right to free speech. Which brings me to one more question – if everything you write, search for, and do on the internet is stored and scanned for subversive opinions – can you still speak freely?

jqbecker

Mo, spectacularly well thought out. I do not have a good answer for your last point. I suppose I have taken comfort that the data has been collected in the aggregate, not specifically per individual. Plausible anonymity, so to say.
Yes, if data are collected specifically per individual and every word is scrutinized, then I am in big trouble. My views on the current US administration and certain countries that begin with the letter “F” in Europe would not be welcomed. And one guy in Scotland would be interested in finding me too.

dpskfromWA

Edited – removed comment.

qmn m

You cannot expect a nation that was founded after the genocide of its natives and the enslavement of an entire race to respect foreigner’s rights.

Max

Have you ever considered assimilating critical thinking? Its quite easily attainable ever for the biggest of simpletons. Give it a try sometime, it will help you see the truth. And stop watching corporately owned media! You are what is ruining our country! Which is now full of people like you! Its turned from country to cuntry!

heathkits

“Many spies during the cold war, particularly at the beginning, were not motivated by greed but by genuine beliefs that communism really was a better, more humane system of government and that capitalism was inherently wrong and exploitative – many people still believe that today about capitalism.” Many people like Obama.

Mo Friedrich

I could bang my head against a wall! Don’t you even realize how beautiful the US government managed the situation? Instead of having to talk about the crimes the NSA commited and still commits, they focused the entire nation on the PERSON who brought the most awkward secrets to light! You still discuss what should happen to the messenger and forgot the message already. This is so scary because I could laugh and cry at the same time at this.

dc

I only read the comments to see how many people would be denouncing Snowden who I have never seen posting on the site before. I wasn’t disappointed.

Read into my statement whatever you wish.

JD Rahman

Although the leaks initially damaged the NSA and the US government, I think in the long run, they will prove to be beneficial (to the NS/government).

What these leaks have done is proven that the citizens of the US are willing to allow the government to get away with just about anything.

There is no civil unrest or revolts. Both the leaks and the man behind the leaks turned out to be entertainment to the average man.

At this point, the US government could confess to assassinating Kennedy, false flagging to start the Vietnam war and other wars or even admit 9/11 was an inside job and the people will continue to be docile.

Whatever population control experiment is running, it has been incredibly successful. Edward Bernays would be proud.

Ben Haley

Kudos for your metioning of bernays great reference.

dpskfromWA

Are you kidding? Look out folks, here come the nutcase conspiracy theorists.

heathkits

Prisoner exchanges are all the vogue this week. I propose that we trade Obama for Snowden. They are both working to destroy the US, so it should be an even up deal.

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