I'd only theoretically support using the no fly list to restrict gun sales as a roundabout way of motivating the usual assholes to maybe get rid of the fucking thing entirely or at least open it up to another angle of constitutional challenge. That's almost guaranteed to backfire, so nah, fuck it.

I don't think gun control is going to come to the US for a long time, if ever. So in that light, I think it's absolutely fair that minorities be given the same rights in practice as whites, rather than the unofficial "guns are only for whites" system that Republicans and the NRA support.

It's right to point out that legally armed blacks are incredibly likely to be shot by police, but that doesn't make the functional denial of gun rights to blacks justifiable. It's also technically an entirely different problem (debatable). To say nothing of the fact that police seem happy to shoot blacks if they have so much as a soup spoon, never mind a gun.

In any case, as has been joked about many times on these boards, the fastest way to get Republicans on board with gun control is to get guns legally in the hands of black men. And, as has also been pointed out, this is actually what has happened in the past (California gun control laws, etc.).

That's all fine and well but no matter what happens black people will NEVER have equal right to own guns in this country. Hell that fact is one of the reason I sold my guns. It is absolutely not only naive as fuck but also dangerous as fuck to believe that minorities will ever have that same functional right in this country. Cops get off for asking black people to reach for their wallet and then shooting them for following that direction in this country.

Maybe I'm coming at this from a different point of view than you. Segregation in crime is something like 90 percent in USA (people dont drive to the next town over to steal shit). So the implication that I take from advocation for minorities to own guns for protection from racism directly implies protecting yourself against the structures in this country that perpetuate the institution of racism, and that dog just don't hunt.

Joxam wrote:Maybe I'm coming at this from a different point of view than you. Segregation in crime is something like 90 percent in USA (people dont drive to the next town over to steal shit). So the implication that I take from advocation for minorities to own guns for protection from racism directly implies protecting yourself against the structures in this country that perpetuate the institution of racism, and that dog just don't hunt.

Its the Police. I'm talking about Police.

I am aware.

What I'm talking about is, that yes, there's an argument that minorities do need to be armed on a wide scale to protect themselves from, yes, the police. I'm not sure I'm 100% on board, because obviously it's a big escalation, but where the US is concerned I'm very open to the argument.

I mean, the interpretation that citizens have the right to be armed that they may protect themselves from potentially tyrannical government is the very argument that gun owners use to support second amendment rights. And people being gunned down with impunity by agents of their own government seems pretty fucking tyrannical to me.

Mongrel wrote:I mean, the interpretation that citizens have the right to be armed that they may protect themselves from potentially tyrannical government is the very argument that gun owners use to support second amendment rights. And people being gunned down with impunity by agents of their own government seems pretty fucking tyrannical to me.

Except it's not just government. It's baked into White Culture in America: in history, in media, in institution. A non-white person with a weapon is automatically a criminal, or at least highly suspect. There was no outrage from the usual quarter of Second Amendment advocates after the police shooting of Philando Castile, even though he did exactly what they always say he should do. At no point during the confrontation did he do anything threatening, but he still got shot. To the NRA fanatics, him getting shot is things working as intended.