That said, you definitely have Yankee goggles on (*cough*cough* Clemens, A Rod, Matsui, Sebathia, Damon, Texeira, Burnett and on and on)

I'm not sure what this random listing of players is supposed to represent. Players you don't like? Players we acquired via trade/free agency that won championships? Help me out here. I'm a Yankees fan, been one since 1994 so yeah, I'm going to defend them if I think the reasoning people are using to disparage them is faulty and/or dumb. We spend a lot of money, I've never said otherwise. I think it's great and am grateful we have an owner willing to part with however much he thinks he needs to in order to insure a quality product will be on the field every season. We may not win the WS every year, but at least the best possible team to achieve that is playing every night.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." -- The Doctor

I'm not sure what this random listing of players is supposed to represent. Players you don't like? Players we acquired via trade/free agency that won championships? Help me out here. I'm a Yankees fan, been one since 1994 so yeah, I'm going to defend them if I think the reasoning people are using to disparage them is faulty and/or dumb. We spend a lot of money, I've never said otherwise. I think it's great and am grateful we have an owner willing to part with however much he thinks he needs to in order to insure a quality product will be on the field every season. We may not win the WS every year, but at least the best possible team to achieve that is playing every night.

Wow you are touchy. I said I was a Yanks fan [since I came to the city for school in '93]. The guys I listed were just a sampling of players the Yanks opened up their wallets and bought. You were quick to point out "The majority of the players on the dynasty teams and the current team are products of our farm system, not free agents or trade acquisitions", which belittles the fact that the majority of players may not necessarily represent a majority of talent, and that almost every year they make an effort to buy the best players in the world raising the salary bar for the whole league. I thought that was a little disingenuous, but you seem to be conceding more here.

2) The wings are seemingly emotionless hockey-bots who aren't always that fun to watch. Watching your team lose to the Flyers is still fun, chances are they'll be a fight or two to get you to cheer. Watching your team lose to the Wings is like watching an adults vs. 2nd graders baseball game. The adults are absolutely better at every part of the game, but watching superior tallents play clearly inferior teams isn't all that fun.

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"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." -- The Doctor

I hate the 'Yankee' comparison. The Yankee's throw limitless money at the best players and are also still able to make ridiculously stupid decisions. The comparison I see is they win, and the Wings win. That's were it ends for me.

I've had fans from other teams try to tell me the Wings 'bought' cups pre-lockout but the truth is the core of our team were players were drafted because of smart people like Jim Devellano. The NY Rangers had one of the highest payrolls in the league and still couldn't make the playoffs.

And yet, post lockout the Red Wings are now enjoying a 19th straight playoff appearance.

Are Wings fans arrogant about it? Sure, but at least it's for good reason. Chicago fans already think they won the cup, and conveniently remembered they have an arena and a hockey team that plays there.

Our widespread nature too. We travel exceptionally well, and we are faithful if we move away from Detroit. This is a sub-addition to that reason in that they probably don't appreciate our providing their ice with Octopi. For some reason they do not see the timeless tradition in this that we do. I believe my fiancee who is a pens fan called it classless.

sorry to hear she's a pens fan that obviously thinks that tradition is "tanking for ten years to get top 5 draft picks every year to REBUILD the franchise"....s***, atleast my fiancee likes the caps cause she likes how ovechkin looks like the geico caveman. she thinks the octopi is hilarious. best of luck dude.

I think there is a misperception if we use the Yankees. They are bought and paid for with no salary cap. We just happen to win as well as a team that would have no Salary cap in a capped situation.

The only reason there's no salary cap in major league baseball is that the owners would never agree to a salary floor, and without a floor there will never be a cap. The NHL doesn't have the problems the MLB does with small-market teams hording money. Teams like the Marlins, Royals, Pirates and Orioles get a ton of money each year in revenue sharing and then pay their players in Monopoly money. That's why the disparity between teams like the Yankees/Red Sox/Mets/Dodgers and those squads is so great. On one side you have the teams that are willing to spend nearly anything to get players and on the other, teams willing to spend nothing. A floor would force them to operate at a competitive level, but they'd never agree to it. The NFL has a similar cap situation, where the floor is something like 84%. Meaning, if the cap was $100 million, the floor is $84 million, forcing all teams to operate between the two numbers. Obviously the players have to have the talent to win the games, regardless of how much the team's operating payroll is.

From what I've read and seen about the NHL's cap situation, I don't think those problems exist. Which is why their cap works. I actually applaud the NHL for a workable cap situation.

"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but *actually* from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff." -- The Doctor

I was perusing hockey message boards for various reactions to the Habs-Caps game, and stumbled across this thread. I guess I'll chime in.

For Blackhawks fans, the pre-cap Wings seemed to "buy" their way to the Cup. Hull, Robitaille, Hasek... Even though "only" one Cup came out of that spending spree, it certainly drew the ire of Hawks fans, as well as many other fans around the league.

There's no salary cap anymore, so that has let up a bit. However, the fact the Red Wings are still competitive, even with many great players leaving, is amazing. Despite the fact that the team has some of the best players in the world (Lidstrom has fallen off just a bit, but he's still top 5, and Datsyuk, in my opinion, is not only the second best forward in the game, he's also underrated), the team still chugs along. And all of that, to me, stems from the fact the organization is classy from the top down. The management and scouting team are the best in all of professional sports, and there's a tradition of excellence and pedigree that makes players want to come to the team, and take pay cuts to do so. The Wings always seem so disciplined, always ready to take it to another level. There isn't really any douchebag on the team to hate either. (EDIT: Wait a minute, what the hell am I talking about? Todd Bertuzzi. Tomas Holmstrom doesn't seem like he's a bad person. I probably should hate him, but he fills his niche so well.) So where does the hate come from? The Red Wings don't even have to try anymore to be good, it comes so naturally. The organization is better than any other team's. And, well, that kind of pisses a lot of people the f*** off. Probably, as a few people alluded to, because of jealousy.

For me, the feeling isn't so much hate as it is respect. Lots and lots of respect. I can't hate management for overspending, because the salary cap won't allow that anymore. I can't really hate any of the players either. All I can do is just shake me head that the Red Wings have somehow done it again. Which does elicit a few "f***in' Red Wings" under my breath.

If you want to ask why other NHL team's fans hate the Canucks, that'd be a much easier topic.

And what happens when those bottom dwellers suddenly become unsuccessful again?

It depends on the situation, but they generally go back to being ignored. When a "bottom dweller" becomes successful for a period of time (like the Boston Bruins from the late 60s through the mid 90s), they are no longer seen that way.

It is safe to say that most hockey fans are more likely to think of our team as the envy of the league as opposed to just some team that used to suck but got good in the early 1990s.

I was perusing hockey message boards for various reactions to the Habs-Caps game, and stumbled across this thread. I guess I'll chime in.

For Blackhawks fans, the pre-cap Wings seemed to "buy" their way to the Cup. Hull, Robitaille, Hasek... Even though "only" one Cup came out of that spending spree, it certainly drew the ire of Hawks fans, as well as many other fans around the league.

There's no salary cap anymore, so that has let up a bit. However, the fact the Red Wings are still competitive, even with many great players leaving, is amazing. Despite the fact that the team has some of the best players in the world (Lidstrom has fallen off just a bit, but he's still top 5, and Datsyuk, in my opinion, is not only the second best forward in the game, he's also underrated), the team still chugs along. And all of that, to me, stems from the fact the organization is classy from the top down. The management and scouting team are the best in all of professional sports, and there's a tradition of excellence and pedigree that makes players want to come to the team, and take pay cuts to do so. The Wings always seem so disciplined, always ready to take it to another level. There isn't really any douchebag on the team to hate either. So where does the hate come from? The Red Wings don't even have to try anymore to be good, it comes so naturally. The organization is better than any other team's. And, well, that kind of pisses a lot of people the f*** off. Probably, as a few people alluded to, because of jealousy.

For me, the feeling isn't so much hate as it is respect. Lots and lots of respect. I can't hate management for overspending, because the salary cap won't allow that anymore. I can't really hate any of the players either. All I can do is just shake me head that the Red Wings have somehow done it again. Which does elicit a few "f***in' Red Wings" under my breath.

If you want to ask why other NHL team's fans hate the Canucks, that'd be a much easier topic.

I can relate and I noticed you mentioned how a lot of Hawks fans hated the Wings b/c they were willing to spend the money to acquire free agents and keep their roster together. They did spend more than most to do it, but they did it wisely. That was a common misconception among many haters that the Wings bought championships. In doing so, the failed to recognize their ability to scout and develop young talent. That is a part of what separated the Redwings from other "big spenders" such as the Maple Leafs and Rangers in the post-lockout era.

How many Hawks fans do you think would have held that against the Wings if Bill Wirtz was not such a cheapskate. I would bet not many.

With that said, it is nice to see your team winning again. It is better than the Ducks!! That is for sure.