Yohimbine HCI vs. Alpha-Yohimbine

First, if your a rep and you have either of these ingredients in your product line I prefer you stay out of the discussion. I love you guys, but I do not want any reason to point biased opinion, although it may be totally honest and unbiased.

Who has used both and which do you think is more effective. Priority of my interest is effectiveness, not alpha causes less sides for example so you prefer alpha.

When Im talking about Yohimbine HCI, Im also asking for real dose experiences such as 15-20mg range per dose, I am not interested in 2.5 mg 2-4 times a day type doses.

Here's the problem: While antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors is great and the purpose of both alpha-Y and Y, yohimbine unfortunately also does the same for alpha 1-adrenoceptors – and this can actually hinder lipolysis. It also is the culprit for the nasty side effects

So, while yohimbine helps to improve lipolysis by antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors, it may also prevent lipolysis from occurring by antagonizing alpha 1-adrenoceptors. Counter productive.

Rauwolscine on the other hand, is just as potent at antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors as yohimbine, yet it is 50 times less potent at alpha 1-adrenoceptors, making it much more selective and much less likely to reduce lipolysis by inhibiting alpha 1-adrenoceptor activity when compared to yohimbine.

Here's the problem: While antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors is great and the purpose of both alpha-Y and Y, yohimbine unfortunately also does the same for alpha 1-adrenoceptors – and this can actually hinder lipolysis. It also is the culprit for the nasty side effects

So, while yohimbine helps to improve lipolysis by antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors, it may also prevent lipolysis from occurring by antagonizing alpha 1-adrenoceptors. Counter productive.

Rauwolscine on the other hand, is just as potent at antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors as yohimbine, yet it is 50 times less potent at alpha 1-adrenoceptors, making it much more selective and much less likely to reduce lipolysis by inhibiting alpha 1-adrenoceptor activity when compared to yohimbine.

I was just interesting in hearing personal Anecdotal experiences actually especially w/ those that used 15+mg of HCI, but I do love you Natty and AlphaT2 does kick ass but that wasnt what Im looking for.

Also Im trying to figure out why I cant find any info on Lyle McDonald considering alpha over hci.

Ive been reading several Lyle McDonald keto books, and this is a suggested protocol for HCI to work well. Anything less than that is typically ineffective. I dont consider this a Dr. Megadose situation on my part.

Originally Posted by Lyle McDonald

Dosing of yohimbe

The optimal dose of yohimbe is thought to be 0.2 milligrams of active ingredient/kilogram of
bodyweight (2,24,25). Thus a 68 kilogram individual (150 lbs) would require 13 milligrams to
increase fat breakdown. Individuals should start with a lower dosage to assess their tolerance
and increase dosage only when no negative heart rate or blood pressure responses occur.

ax1, understand this. A-yohimbine may not be much better than yhcl at stimulating lipolysis, but regardless of what your threshold of tolerance for yhcl is, you will be able to use a higher dose with a-yohimbine.

http://pescience.com/
http://selectprotein.com/
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

ax1, understand this. A-yohimbine may not be much better than yhcl at stimulating lipolysis, but regardless of what your threshold of tolerance for yhcl is, you will be able to use a higher dose with a-yohimbine.

Being able to dose AY higher doesnt exactly automatically equate to better effects in lipolysis. That is a consideration though to take account for. Any experiences, anyone?

Being able to dose AY higher doesnt exactly automatically equate to better effects in lipolysis. That is a consideration though to take account for. Any experiences, anyone?

You're right it doesn't, but it is highly likely.

You will find very few anecdotes from people who have used both at length. I have used YHCl for SNS at 12g/day for 1 month. Currently on week 2 of Genomyx Alphaburn. I'll have an answer for your shortly. While I noticed no negative effects from YHCl, I am actually noticing positive effects (huge increase in libido) from A-Y.

http://pescience.com/
http://selectprotein.com/
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

You will find very few anecdotes from people who have used both at length. I have used YHCl for SNS at 12g/day for 1 month. Currently on week 2 of Genomyx Alphaburn. I'll have an answer for your shortly. While I noticed no negative effects from YHCl, I am actually noticing positive effects (huge increase in libido) from A-Y.

Ive used Alpha-burn, and AlphaT2, both a very good for sure. The last time I used straight yohimbe bark was 17 years ago, and the results were nothing short of phenomenal. Different time, different age of course. Amazing for stubborn bodyfat at that time.

I already have HCI on the way (SNS of course ) so Ill find out first hand, I was curious to different personal experiences.

What Im considering doing is running a Yohimbine HCI, AY, and EC stack in the future. EC will NEVER be dosed with regular yohimbine, 5 hours apart minimum. Y-HCI would be dose pre-workouts only with 200mg caffeine, and on 2 seperate occasion Ill be dosing ECAlphaY. Of course, I will be monitoring myself taking precautionary measures even when Im training to assess my tolerance levels.

You will find very few anecdotes from people who have used both at length. I have used YHCl for SNS at 12g/day for 1 month. Currently on week 2 of Genomyx Alphaburn. I'll have an answer for your shortly. While I noticed no negative effects from YHCl, I am actually noticing positive effects (huge increase in libido) from A-Y.

Im assuming you meant 12mg of HCI. With a 12mg dose it seems that you cut yourself just a bit short in order to use Yohimbine optimally. That dose would be good for someone who is about 145 lbs.

Also, you used 12mg spread, you would need 15mg or more in a single dose to optimally effect lipolysis with HCI according to Lyle McDonald. 12mg in a whole day is considerably short for real effectiveness.

Im assuming you meant 12mg of HCI. With a 12mg dose it seems that you cut yourself just a bit short in order to use Yohimbine optimally. That dose would be good for someone who is about 145 lbs.

Also, you used 12mg spread, you would need 15mg or more in a single dose to optimally effect lipolysis with HCI according to Lyle McDonald. 12mg in a whole day is considerably short for real effectiveness.

Fully agree, but it was ECY, and you can never be too careful.

http://pescience.com/
http://selectprotein.com/
The above is my own opinion and does not reflect the opinion of PES

Here's the problem: While antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors is great and the purpose of both alpha-Y and Y, yohimbine unfortunately also does the same for alpha 1-adrenoceptors – and this can actually hinder lipolysis. It also is the culprit for the nasty side effects

So, while yohimbine helps to improve lipolysis by antagonizing alpha 2-adrenoceptors, it may also prevent lipolysis from occurring by antagonizing alpha 1-adrenoceptors. Counter productive.

I have an issue with this claim and study. It does not provide research in training athletes using yohimbine hcl.

I assume you mean Yohimbine HCL, never heard of the HCI version of it.

My understanding of why Lyle isn't an AY fan is because there are virtually no studies that discuss its affect on performance athletes and he indicts most the studies done of Y's ineffectiveness noting that they were not in an insulin controlled environment which is obviously key to Y's effectiveness. I think he also thinks AY is way overpriced.

Check out the soccer study done in 06 which indicated significant fat loss in athletes who dosed 20mgs of YHCL a day. Or check out the 02 study regarding Y's effectiveness as a fat loss agent when used PWO.

I assume you mean Yohimbine HCL, never heard of the HCI version of it.

My understanding of why Lyle isn't an AY fan is because there are virtually no studies that discuss its affect on performance athletes and he indicts most the studies done of Y's ineffectiveness noting that they were not in an insulin controlled environment which is obviously key to Y's effectiveness. I think he also thinks AY is way overpriced.

Check out the soccer study done in 09 which indicated significant fat loss in athletes who dosed 20mgs of YHCL a day. Or check out the 06 study regarding Y's effectiveness as a fat loss agent when used PWO.

Soccer study was a good one. I have it printed here somewhere but if I remember correctly they lost approximately 2% bf, and they were already quite lean in terms of the general population (12%'ish).

The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.

The natural alpha-2 antagonist yohimbine promotes sympathetic activity by central as well as peripheral mechanisms, and yet in moderate doses dose not usually raise heart rate, increase blood pressure, or induce anxiety (in contrast to sympathomimetic drugs such as ephedrine). Administered prior to exercise, it boosts lipolysis and serum FFA levels both during and following exercise; blockade of adipocyte alpha-2 adrenoreceptors makes at least a modest contribution to this pro-lipolytic activity. These considerations suggest that pre-exercise administration of yohimbine will lower the respiratory quotient during and following exercise, thus promoting fat loss. Since yohimbine can potentiate postprandial insulin secretion, its bariatric benefits should be greatest if administered on a schedule that minimizes postprandial yohimbine activity. A possible synergism of yohimbine and caffeine should be explored. Pre-exercise yohimbine administration has the potential to down-regulate the lipoprotein lipase activity of visceral adipocytes, increase lipolysis in refractory gynoid fat depots, and improve the impaired lipolytic response to exercise in the elderly.

Im trying to think on how I will dose my yohimbine. If I dose it first thing in the morning with a caffeine cap, the caffeine cap will cause me to feel heavily nauseated and dizzy.

If I drink coffee with half and half and take yohimbine with that, Ill feel fine, but Im worried about any potential insulin spike the half and half will give me which will negate the effects of yohimbine. Thoughts anyone?

Im trying to think on how I will dose my yohimbine. If I dose it first thing in the morning with a caffeine cap, the caffeine cap will cause me to feel heavily nauseated and dizzy.

If I drink coffee with half and half and take yohimbine with that, Ill feel fine, but Im worried about any potential insulin spike the half and half will give me which will negate the effects of yohimbine. Thoughts anyone?

Found a LM post to this, what is he referring to with the letters "ASP"?

Most interesting aspect of the soccer study, to me, is that it would seem to imply that the fat loss derived from the yohimbine was largely not catabolic.

Another aspect to consider, Yohimbine builds up in tissues, 3 weeks is a fairly good but short cycle. Although effectivness of yohimbine were shown to be dramatic at 3 weeks in those soccer players, imagine what the results would have registered at the 6 week mark.

Actually, Im planning on running yohimbine HcL. I ordered 4 bottles and should be here any day now. I ran yohimbine bark with great success in the past, but that was 17 years ago so I want to get back to my roots. HCL would be superior and cleaner with less sides than bark.

In regards to Alpha-Yohimbine I have used capped Alpha-burn and AlphaT2 (which is a formula.)

Im not too crazy with bulk powders, Id rather pay more money for convenience most of the time. Id be very careful with bulk yohimbine products, make sure you have an accurate scale.

What you mean by "monitor yourself", Im fairly new to the whole supplement world..

check blood pressure?

What are the sides you don't want that Yohimbine can bring?

Well, first of all you want Yohimbine HCL as it is significantly cleaner than Yohimbine bark, plus you will know exactly how much of the active your getting.

2nd, some people may be a bit more sensitive than others to Yohimbine. You want to start low dose to assess tolerance. At this stage you should be set. If you can check your bloodpressure at the gym or pharmacy while on yohimbine do so just so you know.

The issue here is stacking yohimbine and ephedrine, this is HIGHLY not suggested. in the case of ephedrine, best to use alpha-yohimbine if one must stack, but I have a feeling yohimbine HCl is a whole different ball game worth running on its own with just caffeine and 1-3gr tyrosine in a fasting state and doing cardio/aerobic weight training.

Another note, those prone to anxiety issues may be sensitive to yohimbine.

Res Sports Med. 2006 Oct-Dec;14(4):289-99.
Yohimbine: the effects on body composition and exercise performance in soccer players.
Ostojic SM.
Source
Institute of Sports Medicine, Sports Academy, Belgrade, Serbia and Montenegro. sergej@panet.co.yu
Abstract
The main aim of this study was to determine the effects of yohimbine supplementation on body composition and exercise performance in professional soccer players. The athletes (20 top-level male soccer players) were allocated to two randomly assigned trials. Subjects in the yohimbine group orally ingested tablets that contains yohimbine at a dose of 20 milligrams per day in two equal doses for 21 days. Subjects in the placebo group ingested an equal number of identical-looking pills that contained cellulose. There were no statistically significant changes in body mass and muscle mass within or between trials (p > 0.05) after the supplementation protocol. Percentage of body fat significantly decreased in the yohimbine group after the supplementation protocol (9.3 +/- 1.1 vs. 7.1 +/- 2.2%; p < 0.05). Furthermore, fat mass was significantly lower in the yohimbine versus placebo trial at postsupplementation assessment (7.1 +/- 2.2 vs. 9.2 +/- 1.9%; p < 0.05). There were no changes in exercise performance indicators (bench and leg press, vertical jump, dribble and power test results, shuttle run) within or between. trials (p > 0.05). No subject reported any side effects from yohimbine. The results of the current study indicate that supplementation with yohimbine combined with resistance training does not significantly alter the body mass, muscle mass, or performance indicators in professional soccer players. Nonetheless, yohimbine supplementation appears to be suitable as a fat loss strategy in elite athletes.

PMID: 17214405 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I also thought this would be good to share. Found it on the Leangains.com website. He is known for not BSing and is not part of a company selling any such product.

Important: Keep in mind that insulin negates the effects of yohimbine on alpha 2-receptor inhibition. Always take it in the fasted state and never between meals. Considering the half-life of yohimbine is very short (30 min), you can also experiment with more frequent dosing during the fast. For example, three dosages taken every second hour until your first meal. In that case I would probably not recommend starting with 0.2 mg/kg, since there will be a gradual buildup of the active compound. 0.15 mg/kg is a better starting point for multiple dosages in a relatively short time frame (every second hour).

Important: Keep in mind that insulin negates the effects of yohimbine on alpha 2-receptor inhibition. Always take it in the fasted state and never between meals. Considering the half-life of yohimbine is very short (30 min), you can also experiment with more frequent dosing during the fast. For example, three dosages taken every second hour until your first meal. In that case I would probably not recommend starting with 0.2 mg/kg, since there will be a gradual buildup of the active compound. 0.15 mg/kg is a better starting point for multiple dosages in a relatively short time frame (every second hour).

Lyle McDonald suggests a full dosage 30 minutes prior to cardio or aerobic lifting for maximal results. This is a great way to rid of stubborn bodyfat.