Well,the upgraditis of my HT is in full swing..Here is my question..
My System
Panny AE4000(replaced Panny PT-AX200U)
106' Elite Screen
Denon 3808CI(replaced Denon 3803)
Klipsch RF7
Klipsch RC7(replaced RC3 FINALLY!) : )
Klipssch RB3
Klipsch RW12(being replaced by Rythmik FV15HP)
Now Im looking @ the XPA-5 because of the sale.My room is 15x18 with a cathedral ceiling.I do mostly movies moderate to high levels.
I have been told constantly that using an AVR with my RF7's is really limiting and I should put 200 watts through them and the XPA-5 fits the bill for my wallet.Not interested in ear splitting levels but more for quality,soundstage etc.Will this be a waste of $$ ?
Was also thinking about the UMC 200 but I see a lot of people using Denon AVrs for the job.i got 3808CI like new for $400 a few weeks back so should I keep it or go for the UMC 200?
Thanks for any input.

IMHO you dont need to add a XPA-5. Your speakers are very efficient. at the most you are probably only using 25wpc
on your Denon (which is rated 119wpc/5channels driven) Here is a great link to a chart to see how loud your speakers
are and how much power you NEED! Punch the numbers in and let me know what YOU think.

The Denon 3808CI is a really good receiver and it's listed at 130 watts per channel. But, we know it is not exactly accurate, if you have more than two speakers hooked to the receiver. So, to answer your question (my personal experience): "yes", you will gain in sound quality by really giving 200 watts of clean power to each of your speakers. If you listening habits are moderate to high levels, then the XPA-5 is a great option for you. In any case you can try the amp at home and if you don't like it, then you can return it back to Emotiva. But, I really doubt it will happen........
You can't really beat the Dollar/Watts ratio by buying a XPA-5 amp.

I actually like my 3808CI..I feel it was an improvement over my 3803 probably due to Audyssey.

Well,the upgraditis of my HT is in full swing..Here is my question..
My System
Panny AE4000(replaced Panny PT-AX200U)
106' Elite Screen
Denon 3808CI(replaced Denon 3803)
Klipsch RF7
Klipsch RC7(replaced RC3 FINALLY!) : )
Klipssch RB3
Klipsch RW12(being replaced by Rythmik FV15HP)
Now Im looking @ the XPA-5 because of the sale.My room is 15x18 with a cathedral ceiling.I do mostly movies moderate to high levels.
I have been told constantly that using an AVR with my RF7's is really limiting and I should put 200 watts through them and the XPA-5 fits the bill for my wallet.Not interested in ear splitting levels but more for quality,soundstage etc.Will this be a waste of $$ ?
Was also thinking about the UMC 200 but I see a lot of people using Denon AVrs for the job.i got 3808CI like new for $400 a few weeks back so should I keep it or go for the UMC 200?
Thanks for any input.

Just for kicks I punched some numbers into the calculater.
Distance of 9 feet,average senistivity of your speaker system of 98dB.

Using only 10% of your Denon's power (13 wpc) your system achieves 107dB SPL at listening postion!
That is 7dB OVER "uncomfortably loud"

Just for kicks I punched some numbers into the calculater.
Distance of 9 feet,average senistivity of your speaker system of 98dB.
Using only 10% of your Denon's power (13 wpc) your system achieves 107dB SPL at listening postion!
That is 7dB OVER "uncomfortably loud"
Hoped this helps with your decision.
PS- love that Rythmik sub...excellent choice.

The review did not say how stable the Denon amps are @ 4 ohms or lower. It has been repeated numerous times that the RF7's have huge impedance swings. Sensitivity is not the only factor when discussing power requirements. I am sure that reference volume could be reached with low power. Question is, how clean will it sound.
I have owned RF7's and they benefited from a quality external amp.
.

Plugging in the XPA-5 wattage @ 200wpc yielded an SPL level of 125.3..Hmmmm..gotta be more to it than that for $800.

Not in terms of sheer volume, anyway.

Doubling the power provides 3dB more, this is perceived as only a slight increase. Takes 10 times the power to make the sound twice as loud (assuming for sake of discussion your speakers could effectively deal with 10x more power).

Not in terms of sheer volume, anyway.
Doubling the power provides 3dB more, this is perceived as only a slight increase. Takes 10 times the power to make the sound twice as loud (assuming for sake of discussion your speakers could effectively deal with 10x more power).

Starting to think that $800 would be better spent toward replacing the RW12 with the Rythmik FV15HP..
Bang for the buck is leaning toward SW over Amp for my setup.

Yeah, really leaning towards that. After running Audyssey, I can go no louder than - 17.5db in "softer" movies and - 20db in "louder" ones. At these volumes, my speakers are, loud, clear and precise and my sound stage is awesome. Only real improvement at this point I think would be the sub. Still open to be swayed though as the XPA - 5,UMC - 200 seems like an awesome setup. :-)

Yeah, really leaning towards that. After running Audyssey, I can go no louder than - 17.5db in "softer" movies and - 20db in "louder" ones. At these volumes, my speakers are, loud, clear and precise and my sound stage is awesome. Only real improvement at this point I think would be the sub. Still open to be swayed though as the XPA - 5,UMC - 200 seems like an awesome setup. :-)

The biggest upgrade to the SOUND of my system was when I upgraded
My sub to the Rythmik sub.

The Denon 3808CI is a really good receiver and it's listed at 130 watts per channel. But, we know it is not exactly accurate, if you have more than two speakers hooked to the receiver. So, to answer your question (my personal experience): "yes", you will gain in sound quality by really giving 200 watts of clean power to each of your speakers. If you listening habits are moderate to high levels, then the XPA-5 is a great option for you. In any case you can try the amp at home and if you don't like it, then you can return it back to Emotiva. But, I really doubt it will happen........
You can't really beat the Dollar/Watts ratio by buying a XPA-5 amp.

the Denon 3808CI was measured by Home Theater.com at
119 watts per channel (5 channels driven) .1% distortion.
Thats VERY close to the spec of 130wpc.

Well,the upgraditis of my HT is in full swing..Here is my question..
My System
Panny AE4000(replaced Panny PT-AX200U)
106' Elite Screen
Denon 3808CI(replaced Denon 3803)
Klipsch RF7
Klipsch RC7(replaced RC3 FINALLY!) : )
Klipssch RB3
Klipsch RW12(being replaced by Rythmik FV15HP)
Now Im looking @ the XPA-5 because of the sale.My room is 15x18 with a cathedral ceiling.I do mostly movies moderate to high levels.
I have been told constantly that using an AVR with my RF7's is really limiting and I should put 200 watts through them and the XPA-5 fits the bill for my wallet.Not interested in ear splitting levels but more for quality,soundstage etc.Will this be a waste of $$ ?
Was also thinking about the UMC 200 but I see a lot of people using Denon AVrs for the job.i got 3808CI like new for $400 a few weeks back so should I keep it or go for the UMC 200?
Thanks for any input.

The Denon 3808CI is a really good receiver and it's listed at 130 watts per channel. But, we know it is not exactly accurate, if you have more than two speakers hooked to the receiver. So, to answer your question (my personal experience): "yes", you will gain in sound quality by really giving 200 watts of clean power to each of your speakers. If you listening habits are moderate to high levels, then the XPA-5 is a great option for you. In any case you can try the amp at home and if you don't like it, then you can return it back to Emotiva. But, I really doubt it will happen........

You can't really beat the Dollar/Watts ratio by buying a XPA-5 amp.

think i will be going for xpa 5 bought a new center channel speaker today

it looks just like my left and right speakers which will come nexts week i hope...

I just pulled the trigger and purchased the UMC-200 and the XPA-5 for my apartment. I got tired (after 1 week) of the sound from the Panasonic 55GT50. Now for the hard part, getting speakers. Right now I'm looking at a set of M&K 750THX with LCR 55T surrounds, or Polk CS20., TSI200 fronts, TSI100 Rears, and an M&K MX125 Sub. It's tough to make a decision without listening.

I just purchased this from Emotiva last night. I figured with the sale price and free shipping it would be worth it. Also picked up their CMX-6 power strip to plug this into. I figure it would be better than using my monster strip I own. Any suggestions on use with my equipment? I am not upgrading for many years at this point based on budget and my wife lol. Here is what I have.

Any suggestions from you all would be very beneficial. Any thoughts to make my setup better, or used more efficiently IE: not using the HDMI from my receiver. If that is a better way to go I am all ears. Otherwise, this is my gear and I am proud of it, even though my boys touched the tweeter on three of my speakers when they were younger. Otherwise, everything is wonderful and works great. I am just really excited to get the amp and make a flexy rack to start changing up my HT and give me more options.

I just pulled the trigger and purchased the UMC-200 and the XPA-5 for my apartment. I got tired (after 1 week) of the sound from the Panasonic 55GT50. Now for the hard part, getting speakers. Right now I'm looking at a set of M&K 750THX with LCR 55T surrounds, or Polk CS20., TSI200 fronts, TSI100 Rears, and an M&K MX125 Sub. It's tough to make a decision without listening.

Congrats on your purchase! Yeah, I can relate to weak sound coming out from TV's speakers versus a nice setup like the one that you are building.

dont think thats a good valid test.. i did not state the method of the test... there are playing games..
done some reading on that.. if you only hit the channel for a micro second its not the same as real world conditions..
looks good tho dont it....
cheers

OK... Hometheater.com and Stereophile.com usually include measurements on
the gear they test (speakers,subs, AVR's etc.) If you read the test it did specify that it was
"5 channels driven continously into 8 ohm load". I understand your doubt...perhaps you
could post a link to a site that refutes those specs. If, we are not to believe these numbers
where should we go to get accurate specs???

BTW... I found several reviews of the Emotiva amps you are considering. When
they performed tests on them they compared very favorably to to manufactors specs!
Are we not to believe these tests either??? once again where do we go to get accurate specs??

Home theater.com also reviewed your new speakers (Energy RC-70). They got a solid review
and measured quite well. Are we not to believe those measurements either?? Perhaps they
dont measure nearly as solidly as shown. This would not be good for you.

If I use ebay and Amazon, the Polk's range for the 5.1 would be $1075 to $1500, all new
the M&K's however, must all be used, and the price would be approximately $2000. I would say that for the size of the room
that I am in the Polk's may work, I am just unsure because my home theater at my permanent address consists of Legacy Whispers, Legacy Marquis, Legacy surround, and an MK MX-250. I guess I'm spoiled
Any input regarding my 2 choices? (I'm not an HT snob, so all comments are appreciated.)

If I use ebay and Amazon, the Polk's range for the 5.1 would be $1075 to $1500, all new
the M&K's however, must all be used, and the price would be approximately $2000. I would say that for the size of the room
that I am in the Polk's may work, I am just unsure because my home theater at my permanent address consists of Legacy Whispers, Legacy Marquis, Legacy surround, and an MK MX-250. I guess I'm spoiled
Any input regarding my 2 choices? (I'm not an HT snob, so all comments are appreciated.)

dont think thats a good valid test.. i did not state the method of the test... there are playing games..
done some reading on that.. if you only hit the channel for a micro second its not the same as real world conditions..
looks good tho dont it....
cheers

OK... Hometheater.com and Stereophile.com usually include measurements on
the gear they test (speakers,subs, AVR's etc.) If you read the test it did specify that it was
"5 channels driven continously into 8 ohm load". I understand your doubt...perhaps you
could post a link to a site that refutes those specs. If, we are not to believe these numbers
where should we go to get accurate specs???

BTW... I found several reviews of the Emotiva amps you are considering. When
they performed tests on them they compared very favorably to to manufactors specs!
Are we not to believe these tests either??? once again where do we go to get accurate specs??

Home theater.com also reviewed your new speakers (Energy RC-70). They got a solid review
and measured quite well. Are we not to believe those measurements either?? Perhaps they
dont measure nearly as solidly as shown. This would not be good for you.

here is another test look on the back of the reciever where the power plug goes into it will have the electrical rating there..
i just looked at an older yamaha rx v 995 105wpc x 5
but the electrical consumption is 400 watts max... impossible to produce 525 watts wish my reciever could make 125 watts i could get xpr 5 instead..
try doing some searching too but i will keep looking
cheers..
.

That is not a test of anything. The back panel power consumption figure generally is not listed under full rated continuous output conditions for audio gear.

Additionally, while an amp that lists itself as (for example) 100wpc x 5 should produce 100wpc x 5, it's really not that critical for HT use for that to occur because essentially never will all channels simultaneously demand maximum power. Only on the test bench does that happen.

hey now dont take it personal now...
i was looking for the article i read a few weeks back but couldnt find it
but here is a link that gives some idea's about what im talking about...http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/324572/avr-power-rating-confusion
i will keep looking not ignoring you..
here is another test look on the back of the reciever where the power plug goes into it will have the electrical rating there..
i just looked at an older yamaha rx v 995 105wpc x 5
but the electrical consumption is 400 watts max... impossible to produce 525 watts wish my reciever could make 125 watts i could get xpr 5 instead..
try doing some searching too but i will keep looking
cheers..
ps not sure what the wording is BUT there are Government TEST STANDARD tests which have to be upgraded.. or they play with the numbers, use stereo test on 7 channel amp dont work..
1st off the article did not mentiona a valid test standard... so we dont know what the hell they did..

I understand what you are getting at. (I think) That is that the manufacter's specs can be down right misleading and confusing.
However i always pay particular attention when an independent source tests amps and compares it to the
original spec. I know alot of other AVS menbers do this too. I dont pay attention to the drivel about how they
"open the sound stage" etc. Show me the numbers! I do agree with you about the govt needing to update
the test standard. But, it seems they cant get anything done correctly done lately.

I read the link you provided,it seemed the most of the posts were directed at HTIB receivers which
are for the most part the most notorious about inflating their specs.
The Denon 3808CI is a top of the line AVR (when it was introduced) and should not be considered
to be remotely confused with a HTIB receiver.

I will stand by the link I provided that shows that the Denon can pretty much output its
advertised power rating. I will choose to believe that the Emotivas can also
produce their advertised power ratings,as confirmed by independent testing.

Like I said before, please find me a link that shows that the Denon WILL NOT
produce the claimed power output.

Since you seem to be helpful in this thread with your conversation, mind helping me with some info on my setup? I will repost my info for you. Thanks!

I just purchased this from Emotiva last night. I figured with the sale price and free shipping it would be worth it. Also picked up their CMX-6 power strip to plug this into. I figure it would be better than using my monster strip I own. Any suggestions on use with my equipment? I am not upgrading for many years at this point based on budget and my wife lol. Here is what I have.

Any suggestions from you all would be very beneficial. Any thoughts to make my setup better, or used more efficiently IE: not using the HDMI from my receiver. If that is a better way to go I am all ears. Otherwise, this is my gear and I am proud of it, even though my boys touched the tweeter on three of my speakers when they were younger. Otherwise, everything is wonderful and works great. I am just really excited to get the amp and make a flexy rack to start changing up my HT and give me more options.

hey now dont take it personal now...
i was looking for the article i read a few weeks back but couldnt find it
but here is a link that gives some idea's about what im talking about...http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/324572/avr-power-rating-confusion
i will keep looking not ignoring you..
here is another test look on the back of the reciever where the power plug goes into it will have the electrical rating there..
i just looked at an older yamaha rx v 995 105wpc x 5
but the electrical consumption is 400 watts max... impossible to produce 525 watts wish my reciever could make 125 watts i could get xpr 5 instead..
try doing some searching too but i will keep looking
cheers..
ps not sure what the wording is BUT there are Government TEST STANDARD tests which have to be upgraded.. or they play with the numbers, use stereo test on 7 channel amp dont work..
1st off the article did not mentiona a valid test standard... so we dont know what the hell they did..

I understand what you are getting at. (I think) That is that the manufacter's specs can be down right misleading and confusing.
However i always pay particular attention when an independent source tests amps and compares it to the
original spec. I know alot of other AVS menbers do this too. I dont pay attention to the drivel about how they
"open the sound stage" etc. Show me the numbers! I do agree with you about the govt needing to update
the test standard. But, it seems they cant get anything done correctly done lately.

I read the link you provided,it seemed the most of the posts were directed at HTIB receivers which
are for the most part the most notorious about inflating their specs.
The Denon 3808CI is a top of the line AVR (when it was introduced) and should not be considered
to be remotely confused with a HTIB receiver.

I will stand by the link I provided that shows that the Denon can pretty much output its
advertised power rating. I will choose to believe that the Emotivas can also
produce their advertised power ratings,as confirmed by independent testing.

Like I said before, please find me a link that shows that the Denon WILL NOT
produce the claimed power output.

just picked up to more rc 70 speakers my surrounds.. so when 1 and 2 get here i will have 5 rc 70 cheap cheap cheap... very good little speaker

my wallet is pretty tapped out now but i want an amp drive em have a brand new 3313ci to process and energy veritas v sw 10 sub to blend real well

Since you seem to be helpful in this thread with your conversation, mind helping me with some info on my setup? I will repost my info for you. Thanks!
I just purchased this from Emotiva last night. I figured with the sale price and free shipping it would be worth it. Also picked up their CMX-6 power strip to plug this into. I figure it would be better than using my monster strip I own. Any suggestions on use with my equipment? I am not upgrading for many years at this point based on budget and my wife lol. Here is what I have.
Mitsubishi Diamond 57" rear projection
Yamaha Rx-V861 receiver
Emotiva XPA-5 (not arrived yet)
PS3 for games and Blu ray play back
B&W 703 tower (front)
B&W HTM 62 center channel (only until I get a new setup for my TV)
B&W 685 bookshelf (rear)
B&W HTM 7 center channel (will be used eventually with new TV setup)
Any suggestions from you all would be very beneficial. Any thoughts to make my setup better, or used more efficiently IE: not using the HDMI from my receiver. If that is a better way to go I am all ears. Otherwise, this is my gear and I am proud of it, even though my boys touched the tweeter on three of my speakers when they were younger. Otherwise, everything is wonderful and works great. I am just really excited to get the amp and make a flexy rack to start changing up my HT and give me more options.
One question, would these cables be fine to use for connecting the Emotiva to my receiver?http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023603&p_id=2681&seq=1&format=2