I can forgive the fact that there was barely any May in the episode because we got to see Coulson's fierce determination to find her. In other words - I loved Coulson in this ep. And don't you love the way declarations of love happen on this show? "She means everything to me." Mack says something to Coulson about it being hard to lose someone you love and there is no denial. For me it's tantamount to 3x1 "Laws of Nature" when the terrorist asks Fitz, "This woman you went all this trouble for, you love her, yeah?" and Fitz says, "Yeah."

Did you like the new Inhuman?

I did like the new Inhuman. It's interesting that he was still being a good soldier for The Superior. I wonder whether he will come into play again or if he will become another Graviton from season 1. (The gravitonium was locked away and forgotten in the lowest level of the Fridge so presumably he wasn't released when Hydra took it over.)

What do you think about Radcliffe now that we know his motives?

Are we supposed to think that he left his girlfriend because he had always planned to build the Framework to "save" her? I still think that's pretty crappy of him to leave his dying girlfriend even if he was trying to find a way to prolong her life.

How do you feel about AIDA? Do you think she has feelings?

I feel like there have been small hints that Aida has been developing feelings for several episodes. Aida seemed to look hurt when Radcliffe was upset with her for killing Agent Nathanson. (I think he scolded her about that in 4x9.) And I think there were other moments where she seemed to have an emotional reaction to Radcliffe's criticism. It would be interesting if Aida developed feelings and decided to help SHIELD/turned against Radcliffe.

What are your guesses about what May is experiencing?

I have no idea what May is experiencing, but if there is little to no May in the next episode, I'm going to be VERY annoyed.

OTHER THOUGHTS:

--A little disappointed at how Nadeer was killed off. She was a formidable baddie. I wanted to see how things played out when her brother came back on the scene (which you know he will).

--I wonder whether Agnes could meet May in the Framework.

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February 8, 2017 - 9:09 pm

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meredithchandler73 said
(The gravitonium was locked away and forgotten in the lowest level of the Fridge so presumably he wasn't released when Hydra took it over.)

Garrett took the Gravitonium and gave it to Ian Quinn (The evil businessman) who escaped before Garrett was killed by Coulson. So it's out there, though the chances of it resurfacing are tiny.

I don't know if this was intentional or not, but Nadeer's office was in the Stamford Wing and it was destroyed by an inhuman who can explode and reform himself. In the comics, Stamford was heavily damaged by Nitro, a bad guy who can explode and reform himself.

And I also realized how similar Nadeer is to Senator Kelly from the X-Men comics.

But on to the episode.

I appreciated the fact the Watchdogs brought up that if Nadeer's brother wan an inhuman than she could be too. I'm sad she was killed though, she was much more interesting than the Superior and his generic Russian bad guy set up.

Aida definitely has crossed over to having feelings, which means she probably will break free of Radcliffe's control at soon (If she hasn't already).

I wonder how May will feel after being taken out of the Framework? She probably was happier inside of it.

I thought it was odd Mace seemed to have no issues with his serum but now suddenly was on the verge of heart failure if he used it again. And for all the talk about the Sokovia Accords restricting inhuman agents, both Daisy and Mace seem to have free reign on where they go and what they do.

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February 8, 2017 - 10:06 pm

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Hawkeye86 said

I don't know if this was intentional or not, but Nadeer's office was in the Stamford Wing and it was destroyed by an inhuman who can explode and reform himself. In the comics, Stamford was heavily damaged by Nitro, a bad guy who can explode and reform himself.

And I also realized how similar Nadeer is to Senator Kelly from the X-Men comics.

I would doubt it was an accident

PS, I believe a happy belated birthday is in order!

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February 8, 2017 - 10:15 pm

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I was sort of unimpressed with this episode. I had been waiting for someone to mention that since Nadeer’s brother was Inhuman then she probably was, too. I was surprised it took this long. So I was really expecting her to be Inhuman (and am sort of baffled that she is not…like how does that even work? Even recessive genes are still present, right?). And I had considered that maybe the Superior would end up being Inhuman, or Radcliffe. I was a little surprised it was Shockley. Bad observing, TC! I should have seen that coming. So that surprise was kind of cool. Weird that he ended up being captured in a giant Pokeball. But one of the things I really love about SHIELD is the plot twists, so the fact that there weren’t really many sort of bummed me out. And I didn’t think that there were as many funny lines. Philinda shippers must have been loving it, though!

COULSON

How awesome would it be to have a Phil Coulson in your life? He is just the best!! Coulson said he wouldn’t poke a hole through the universe and bring a demon back in order to save May, but I think if that was required I absolutely think he would do just that—maybe he would look over his shoulder before he assumed he wasn’t followed, but yeah, I think he would do just about anything for May. I think even if Coulson found out May was dead, he would still look for a way. He is no 4th-wall-breaking Deadpool, but I think he realizes that dead isn’t dead in the world he is living in.

MACK

Mack is a sad dude. He lost Hope and hope. He seems convinced that since Hope didn’t survive that there is no point in anyone fighting for anything. It seems he would still hold out for May. The fact that he is so willing to give up on her seems a little contrived…yes, now we know some of Mack’s backstory, but he was the same person last year and had the same past even then. I don’t think he had so little fight in him back then. The fact that he is so beaten down now seems out of character and is only acting this way because the viewer knows his past. That seems not-great writing to me. I suppose you could justify it by saying that because of sharing the Hope story with Elena that loss is more on his mind now. I don’t know. Regardless, though, I think it is a little heart-breaking how beaten down he is.

MAY

The show seems to be working really hard to convince us that May might not survive. Last week they planted the seed that if they can’t find May, Maybot may be all that is left of her. That would keep Ming on the show, but it would be different. I think Maybot has already grown to be someone very different than Melinda May. Also, in the stinger to this week’s episode Radcliffe said Agnes never really had any hope…that the human body will always give up in the end. The show made sure that the last thing we saw in that scene was May; in fact, I think that the camera panned over to May just after he said this. I would say that all this is a red herring and that we are supposed to think that she could die just to raise the stakes of the coming episodes. This makes me believe that May is actually safe. However, it could very well be that the red herring is a red herring. That would be heartbreaking. And was it just me that she did not look at all to be enjoying what was happening in her sim?

SHOCKLEY

Tucker Shockley seems to be based on the villain Nitro in the comics. Nitro could transform his body into an explosive vapor that could then reassemble. This is just about exactly how Simmons explained Shockley’s powers.

I had no real complaints about any of this, I guess I just feel that there are a lot of fire-y Inhumans (Lincoln sort-of, Hellfire/James, Ghost Rider—true not Inhuman, but you get my point). I would just like to see some other powers. I mean, the cool thing about Inhumans/Mutants is that powers are limited only by imagination, but a lot of the powers we have seen are all about the same…heat/fire/explosions. If they are going to keep that up, the least they could do is resurrect Donnie Gill and have an epic Hellfire/Blizzard battle or something.

FITZSIMMONS

How cute was Simmons yelling at Fitz for risking his life? I remember in season 1 when Jemma was about to explode in episode 106 “Fzzt” and she jumped out of the Bus so no one else would explode with her. Fitz was so insecure that Ward dove after her instead of him. Now look at Fitz!!

Also, the scene where they were studying Nadeer’s office reminded me so much of episode 1 “Pilot” when they were investigating the explosion in the Centipede lab (also an exploding person, btw). I miss the D.W.A.R.F.s

MACE

I am warming up to Mace. No, he is not Captain America and never will be, but I think he is closer than many. Twice in this episode Daisy was talking about being glad someone was dead. When Nadeer died, he said it would have been better to bring her to justice. Daisy rolled her eyes at him. That spoke volumes. And I was super impressed that Mace risked his life to be “blocker”. And now I guess Mace has been captured by Ivanov? I suppose there will be a big surprise for them when they find out he is not Inhuman. I would be irritated I they just killed him off though…meeting these new characters only to have them killed off after a season is getting old. Also, I was a bit annoyed by the constant football metaphors. I guess he had just seen the Superbowl this weekend.

RADCLIFFE

Radcliffe sounds more and more like Kaecilius every day. So I guess that Radcliffe’s whole obsession with creating AIDA and now with the Framework is all about wanting to save the love of his life? That sort of redeems him, I guess. Maybe. I don’t know. At least we know his intentions were not deliberately sinister. But still, I have to wonder how much he has saved her and how much he has imprisoned her.

AGNES/AIDA

Agnes was ok. There was not much to her, really. Her story was kind of sad, but we just didn’t get much detail into who she is as a person.

AIDA however is freaking me out a bit. She is getting creepier every day. How exactly has she developed emotions? Is it the Darkhold-inspired brain? She seemed genuinely jealous of Agnes. I am not convinced she did not find some way to hasten Agnes’s death. Plus, if she designed the Framework for Agnes, I am not convinced it will be a happy life for her.

AIDA stole Agnes’s necklace. That is a weird move to begin with. But, I was struck by the necklace itself. It is hard to tell, but I think the necklace is an ouroboros (a snake eating its own tail). It tends to symbolize the infinite cycle of life and death or something recreating itself. I think that is pretty symbolic of AIDA and Agnes. Not to mention, in Norse mythology that symbol is Jormungand, one of Loki’s children who kills Thor and starts Ragnarok, so even if it wasn’t the costume designer’s intent, it is a cool shout-out to the upcoming movie.

Also, FYI, in the comics AIDA was an AI created by a character named Tom Thumb who loved AIDA. Tom was dying of cancer. Seems AoS flipped the story a bit!

CONNECTIONS

Radcliffe mentions getting his Terrigen Crystal samples from a previous Benefactor. That was Hive back in episode 319 “Failed Experiments”.

Daisy in the Director’s Office at the Playground seemed to me to foreshadow Daisy Johnson, Director of SHIELD which was a thing in the comics. I also thought of that every time someone mentioned the “Inhuman Director of SHIELD.” I am pretty certain that will be how the season ends.

The devices used to blow in the door outside of Ivanov and Shockley’s hideout seemed to be the same ones that Coulson used to go after Obadiah Stane in Iron Man

Also, the standoff between Shockley and Daisy reminded me so much of episode 110 “The Bridge” with the whole night-time standoff and ambush and kidnapping of a character.

PERSONAL HIGHLIGHT

Coulson: I felt the same way when I was working with the Avengers. It’s hard to find your

place when you’re working with heroes and gods.

Mace: So what did you do?

Coulson: I did my best to protect the team. Turns out, I had a role to play. You’ll make the

right decision at the right time. Or you’ll get an Asgardian staff through the chest. I’d

try to avoid that part.

Yes, Coulson, you had a role. You united the MCU. You made the Avengers. You are just the best.

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February 9, 2017 - 10:41 am

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teamcoulson325 said

MACK

Mack is a sad dude. He lost Hope and hope. He seems convinced that since Hope didn’t survive that there is no point in anyone fighting for anything. It seems he would still hold out for May. The fact that he is so willing to give up on her seems a little contrived…yes, now we know some of Mack’s backstory, but he was the same person last year and had the same past even then. I don’t think he had so little fight in him back then. The fact that he is so beaten down now seems out of character and is only acting this way because the viewer knows his past. That seems not-great writing to me. I suppose you could justify it by saying that because of sharing the Hope story with Elena that loss is more on his mind now. I don’t know. Regardless, though, I think it is a little heart-breaking how beaten down he is.

MAY

The show seems to be working really hard to convince us that May might not survive. Last week they planted the seed that if they can’t find May, Maybot may be all that is left of her. That would keep Ming on the show, but it would be different. I think Maybot has already grown to be someone very different than Melinda May. Also, in the stinger to this week’s episode Radcliffe said Agnes never really had any hope…that the human body will always give up in the end. The show made sure that the last thing we saw in that scene was May; in fact, I think that the camera panned over to May just after he said this. I would say that all this is a red herring and that we are supposed to think that she could die just to raise the stakes of the coming episodes. This makes me believe that May is actually safe. However, it could very well be that the red herring is a red herring. That would be heartbreaking. And was it just me that she did not look at all to be enjoying what was happening in her sim?

RADCLIFFE

Radcliffe sounds more and more like Kaecilius every day. So I guess that Radcliffe’s whole obsession with creating AIDA and now with the Framework is all about wanting to save the love of his life? That sort of redeems him, I guess. Maybe. I don’t know. At least we know his intentions were not deliberately sinister. But still, I have to wonder how much he has saved her and how much he has imprisoned her.

Also, FYI, in the comics AIDA was an AI created by a character named Tom Thumb who loved AIDA. Tom was dying of cancer. Seems AoS flipped the story a bit!

Some great thoughts here. I don't see Mack as having given up hope and thinking nothing is worth fighting for anymore. He was on the mission with Coulson to find the woman Radcliffe based Aida on in the hopes of finding Radcliffe to find May. I think once he understood Agnes was dying and wanted to live out her days without any contact from the ex who left her - I think he felt that the most important thing was to respect a dying woman's wishes and not force her to have any contact with Radcliffe. And when Coulson said he was going to go to Agnes again, Mack felt it was the wrong call. But Coulson isn't heartless. This isn't the same as kidnapping Thomas (Ward's brother) to try to find Ward and Fitzsimmons. When Coulson went to Agnes it was to lay all his cards on the table. "Radcliffe took something from me, too. Her name is Melinda May. And she means everything to me." He told Agnes she was a lot like May - brave, not afraid to die. And May deserves to live the rest of her life out on her own terms - how she could appreciate that. I'm sure it was hard for Agnes to make her decision to help, but in the end she grabbed at Radcliffe's offer to be able to save her life.

I'm getting very stressed out about May now. My first thought was how much I wanted LMD May to break free of her programming and help the team find May. It would be fun to see both Mays fighting side by side instead of against each other. I know that killing off May but keeping LMD May would keep Ming on the show and there would be interesting notions about what it means to be alive and such, but I would not be happy at all if the show went down that road. And no - you aren't the only one that thinks May is no longer content in her simulation. If we have one more whole ep where we don't know what's going on with May, I'm going to be super pissed.

As for Radcliffe, it's an interesting thought that he wanted to create the framework to save Agnes. Perhaps some sort of redemption for him? The question is whether he had always intended to reach out to Agnes. I never got the sense that this had been his intention all along. If we saw that he had been tracking her all along and was going to reach out to her in case she was close to death, maybe. But I just didn't feel that.

Hawkeye86 said

meredithchandler73 said
(The gravitonium was locked away and forgotten in the lowest level of the Fridge so presumably he wasn't released when Hydra took it over.)

Garrett took the Gravitonium and gave it to Ian Quinn (The evil businessman) who escaped before Garrett was killed by Coulson. So it's out there, though the chances of it resurfacing are tiny.

Crap! How did I forget that! Thanks for reminding me!

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February 9, 2017 - 3:04 pm

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Hi guys. I'm new here. *waves* Just found out about this place recently and was looking for a place to discuss AoS. So I'm really glad to have found this. 🙂 I've been watching since day 1, so I'm not sure how I haven't found these boards sooner!

I don't have any real substantive discussion to add today, but I wanted to stop lurking and say hi.

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February 9, 2017 - 4:37 pm

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teamcoulson325 said

PS, I believe a happy belated birthday is in order!

Thanks!!

meredithchandler73 said

Crap! How did I forget that! Thanks for reminding me!

No problem! As much as I enjoy this show, it does drop a few plot points per season.

So is there going to be any fall out from Coulson breaking in to Nadeer's office? Talbot made it sound like the blowback was going to be pretty severe.

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February 9, 2017 - 11:12 pm

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I thought the new episode was very good. A couple of nice twists, one I've been expecting. I always assumed AIDA was based on a human. The more Mallory Jansen, the better. I love that we got to hear her in her native accent. It's ironic that a man who hates Inhumans winds up being one himself. I'm disappointed and surprised they killed off Nadeer as soon as they did. I fear for Mace. I have a feeling he won't be around for much longer. I hope I'm wrong, but they're making some strong hints.

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February 10, 2017 - 7:22 pm

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Hawkeye86 said

So is there going to be any fall out from Coulson breaking in to Nadeer's office? Talbot made it sound like the blowback was going to be pretty severe.

Good point! I forgot about that! I guess the writers forgot too (or hoped we would)

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