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Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by jonboy79

But I thinkhe honestly believes he is getting the most from his team as a whole by playing the guys he does. I'm not sure he is correct in that line of thinking, but I believe that is his line of thinking.

How much more could he possible have gotten out of this team than he did in the last 5 years? 5 playoff appearances, 3 AFC Championship game appearances, 2 division crowns, a Conference Crown, a SuperBowl win, and the 4th highest winning percent in the league!

At some point you have to understand that his results are lending massive credence to his methods and MAYBE just MAYBE you are the one who is wrong here. (And if you're not, sell Bisciotti on your idea, he's a personnel guy, he'll find a place for someone smarter than a SuperBowl winning coach.)

My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by ActualSpamBot

How much more could he possible have gotten out of this team than he did in the last 5 years? 5 playoff appearances, 3 AFC Championship game appearances, 2 division crowns, a Conference Crown, a SuperBowl win, and the 4th highest winning percent in the league!

At some point you have to understand that his results are lending massive credence to his methods and MAYBE just MAYBE you are the one who is wrong here. (And if you're not, sell Bisciotti on your idea, he's a personnel guy, he'll find a place for someone smarter than a SuperBowl winning coach.)

Do we win the Super Bowl if Jah Reid doesn't stub his toe? Doubtful if you ask me.
Do we win only 10 games if McKinnie played all year? Doubtful if you ask me.

Does the fact that Oher continues to play while big fat lazy yet obviously superior players languish on the bench increase the development of young guys? I certainly hope so. Better be more then the fact that we are PERHAPS giving away a few games in doing so.

There literally CANNOT be a case made that Oher was EVER the best LT on this team outside of the Gaither Injury season since he's been here, yet he has started 2 full seasons there and been HANDED the job over superior players during two training camps without a competition.
I am not at practices, so I cannot vouch for the change in work ethic from the youngsters, but it better be there when you are CLEARLY not starting the best 22 week in and week out. Besides LT, Mclain over Ellerbe is the only other time I have noticed such a move. Perhaps that is why Josh Bynes was ready to play wen called upon this season. Not being involved in practice I can onl speculate on what I see. What I see is Oher playing far too much LT when better options are available. Hopefully that is a thing of the past, especially if that means that Big Mac simply tries harder in the offseason and weekly practices. Certainly no harm can come from that.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by AirFlacco

I thought Caldwell was the one who influenced HARBs to insert Mc Kinney. Don't forget, at the same time they
moved Oher back to RT and KO to his natural position of LG and they won all those games in the trenches.

WE all knew it was a weight issue and he was in the dog house but getting out coincides with Caldwell taking over
the offense. Also HARBS hired his buddy from Philly, Castillo who was the great line coach up there for many years.

I just don't think HARBS did all that on his own. Yea, he made the final decision but he usually listens to his
coaches.

There was also a thread here that Ray worked with Mc Kinney in the weight room and helped him to lose weight
and he even got a juicer. Not sure if that's true or a joke but Mc Kinney lost weight.

Anyway, there's a lot of players involved in this story that helped HARBs out.

Mc Kinney actually saved HARBS ass after he was inserted as the line play improved. Games are always won in
the trenches and we lost those games to Piss, DC and slaughtered by Denver before beating them in the POs
after those line moves.

How do you type? Why do all of your sentences get broken up instead of just flowing like everyone else? Do you type a sentence or do you hit the return/enter button for no apparent reason?

I ask this because its hard to read your posts because of this. Your formatting or whatever you're doing is wrong and you should probably try and fix it.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by jonboy79

There literally CANNOT be a case made that Oher was EVER the best LT on this team outside of the Gaither Injury season since he's been here, yet he has started 2 full seasons there and been HANDED the job over superior players during two training camps without a competition.
I am not at practices, so I cannot vouch for the change in work ethic from the youngsters, but it better be there when you are CLEARLY not starting the best 22 week in and week out. Besides LT, Mclain over Ellerbe is the only other time I have noticed such a move. Perhaps that is why Josh Bynes was ready to play wen called upon this season. Not being involved in practice I can onl speculate on what I see. What I see is Oher playing far too much LT when better options are available. Hopefully that is a thing of the past, especially if that means that Big Mac simply tries harder in the offseason and weekly practices. Certainly no harm can come from that.

Like I said, if it's so obvious that Harbs' coaching decisions are costing this team wins, then put together a presentation explaining exactly how and send it to Bisciotti.

But from where I'm sitting, we are playing the best 22 every week, and when Bryant got into shape and demonstrated that he was one of those 22, he was inserted into the line up. Do you want to keep insisting that Harbs was forced to do it? Fine, but you're ignoring the fact that Bobbie Williams is also a hard working, no quit guy who was healthy the whole playoff run. Why didn't Harbs stick Bobbie in at LG, leave Oher and Osemele alone and just role with that?

Is it because, despite your constant insistence that you as a fan on a message board know O-line play better than him, he was always willing to play his 5 best guys and Bryant was finally one of them?

My motto was always to keep swinging. Whether I was in a slump or feeling badly or having trouble off the field, the only thing to do was keep swinging. -Hank Aaron

I'm guessing you were on vacation in April/May/June when he pretty much sat out all of OTAs working on his conditioning, then arrived at TC overweight, failed his conditioning test and again worked on his conditioning on the side?!?

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

I am not sure anybody can say for sure that McKinnie would have been as effective over 20 games that he demonstrated over the Playoffs with a contract on the line. He is a self-motivator when he feels like it, and not when the team needs him.

I will give Tony credibility for his sources. Those who choose to see Harbaugh as incompetent or McKinnie as JO can have their opinion. Based on everything that has happened to date, I can see that Tony's version makes sense.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by Captain Offense

I will give Tony credibility for his sources. Those who choose to see Harbaugh as incompetent or McKinnie as JO can have their opinion. Based on everything that has happened to date, I can see that Tony's version makes sense.

It's a nice uplifting story--two hard-headed guys, "cooler heads" prevailing," working their way to mutual understanding & appreciation & a triumphant ending to the season.

It might even be mostly true. I've seen similar things happen. (Hell, I've been part of some.)

Right now all that can be said with fairly high confidence that it's the story the Ravens want you to hear.

And that's not a knock on anyone involved (McKinnie, Harbaugh, the Ravens, the sources, or Tony)--it's just a realistic conclusion based on how media-savvy organizations (like the Ravens) play the publicity game in this day & age.

Maybe we'll hear something closer to the full story when someone writes his memoirs years from now, when no one would be risking anything--& no one will care much. Right now it's in the interest of everyone involved to put the best possible face on what transpired.

Myself, I am going to reserve judgement until McKinnie & the Ravens part company. I'll take whatever he has to say then with a large grain of salt--but I won't dismiss it out of hand either. Disgruntled former employees aren't above taking gratuitous shots at the old workplace; OTOH, they are also free to speak without risking retaliation--especially if their new job is the last one they'll get in the field before retiring.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Originally Posted by jonboy79

Do we win the Super Bowl if Jah Reid doesn't stub his toe? Doubtful if you ask me.
Do we win only 10 games if McKinnie played all year? Doubtful if you ask me.

Does the fact that Oher continues to play while big fat lazy yet obviously superior players languish on the bench increase the development of young guys? I certainly hope so. Better be more then the fact that we are PERHAPS giving away a few games in doing so.

There literally CANNOT be a case made that Oher was EVER the best LT on this team outside of the Gaither Injury season since he's been here, yet he has started 2 full seasons there and been HANDED the job over superior players during two training camps without a competition.
I am not at practices, so I cannot vouch for the change in work ethic from the youngsters, but it better be there when you are CLEARLY not starting the best 22 week in and week out. Besides LT, Mclain over Ellerbe is the only other time I have noticed such a move. Perhaps that is why Josh Bynes was ready to play wen called upon this season. Not being involved in practice I can onl speculate on what I see. What I see is Oher playing far too much LT when better options are available. Hopefully that is a thing of the past, especially if that means that Big Mac simply tries harder in the offseason and weekly practices. Certainly no harm can come from that.

Oher has been at least the second best LT on the team each of his seasons here, and I don't have a problem thinking a fat, out-of-shape McKinnie wasn't as good an option at LT than Oher.

I think the assumption that since McKinnie came in and played X well during the final five weeks of the Ravens season he would have played at that same level all year is a flawed one. Harbaugh's approach meant McKinnie earned his spot on the field. Had he just been trotted out there despite not being prepared to play, I don't think he plays at a high level or improves throughout the year.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Like I said, if it's so obvious that Harbs' coaching decisions are costing this team wins, then put together a presentation explaining exactly how and send it to Bisciotti.

But from where I'm sitting, we are playing the best 22 every week, and when Bryant got into shape and demonstrated that he was one of those 22, he was inserted into the line up. Do you want to keep insisting that Harbs was forced to do it? Fine, but you're ignoring the fact that Bobbie Williams is also a hard working, no quit guy who was healthy the whole playoff run. Why didn't Harbs stick Bobbie in at LG, leave Oher and Osemele alone and just role with that?

Is it because, despite your constant insistence that you as a fan on a message board know O-line play better than him, he was always willing to play his 5 best guys and Bryant was finally one of them?

sorry, McKinnie was way out of shape and played and improved throughout the 2011 season.

I can't honestly believe that the best 5 OLinemen were playing at any point before the playoffs. Harewood, reid and Williams were all miserable. even if McKinnie was not better then Oher at the beginning of the year, Oher was better then KO, and KO was better then the revolving door at LG. The only potential wrench in this is that McKinnie was claimed to have a hip pointer for a while midseason. Even out of shape, as long as health was not in question there is absolutely no way the line was better with Reid/harewood/williams at LG then McKinnie at LT. I will never believe that.

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

If McKinnie took this long to get in shape, I highly doubt he would have played as well earlier in the season.

"When questioned, the Elders explained that they were in search of magical powers. However, they're actually searching for the whereabouts of a certain ring. This ring is a legendary treasure that long ago was known to exist"

Re: The Story of John Harbaugh & Bryant McKinnie

Great piece, and a good reminder: its easy, on the outside looking in, to make drastic statements about what somebody else ought to do, and how "Well, if it were ME, why I'd just......"

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....

In real life, 99% of the time it seems, the best decision is when you let your anger/disappointment at somebody subside instead of allowing you to make a snap decision.

There are times where if I told people what I really thought of them, and got my ego in a wad and decided to just throw my Mighty Thunderbolt down on them from Mt. Olympus, I would be completely screwed right now. Even the people who've royally screwed me up by not paying attention, doing what they need to do, etc I have backed away from the brink of madness and instead of banning them from my life or business, have instead figured out how to get something out of them. I have never regretted that once.

I could see very easily though, had I unleashed the fury on any of these people and decided to go scorched earth with them, how much more difficult it would have been to fix whatever the problem would have been without them.

Oddly enough, it turns out that "benching" "releasing" or flat out destroying people is counterproductive -- in real life.

On sports talk, the internet, etc., it's easy to get caught up in emotion and make snap judgments. It makes for a nice ,clean, bright line opinion. It helps us define ourselves ("I'm a McKinnie backer, you're a McKinnie hater") which makes thought simpler.

But "making thought simpler" should not be mistaken for "that which makes real problems get solved."

For the record I was always skeptical on McKinnie and can't recall having ever been on the McKinnie bandwagon as far as wanting him back in the lineup. But as usual, the Ravens made the right decision, which is what makes them such a tremendous organization, through and through.

When listening to talk shows and callers are calling for overt drastic actions against those that 'did not perform' to the callers specifications - it is easy to see that the callers have never been a leader of men to achieve a objective. No two individuals respond to the same motivations - the true leader picks the motivational tool that the individual responds to, and the tools that the entire team respond to - Harbs, over his 5 years as HC has displayed a mastery of picking the right motivational tools to apply to each individual to coax out their best performances.