pet battles sucks, stupid pitty features in general suck. The game needs to get back to the basics about PvP and PvE, but w/ garrison being added, it looks like the game will continue to head in a direction i'd rather not follow.

PvP is the most useless feature in the game, and a major reason for the imbalance in PvE, the sooner PvP gets scrapped the better it is. Pet battles is way more useful and popular, there are way more players interested in pet battles (and "peaceful" features in general), than into PvP and the segregation of factions it brings with it.

So anyone who didn't say anything positive about the game isn't rational? You're right, we should all say how amazing cataclysm was w/ all its faults (...) if you can't acknowledge that cataclysm was the worst expansion, then your opinion as a whole is invalid.

I'm not sure if you actually read my what I just said, but I have a neutral, open position. I barely played Cataclysm, though I played enough to grasp what people liked and did not like about it. The theme of this thread (if you cared to consider it), again, is that maybe our opinions about the expansion are too emotionally driven. Emotions, being transient, may not represent lasting opinions. This is simply a call to consider the expansion in a rational sense.

Originally Posted by crakerjack

You want to know why the TBC was renowned for being amazing?

Enjoy: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...me-quot-quotes
The point here is not to say TBC was bad, as I very much enjoyed it. It is simply to say that your memory of it is also highly emotionally driven. Not everyone hails it as a masterpiece, and for the same reasons, could be alternatively considered in a rational account.

Originally Posted by crakerjack

To you my opinion isn't rational because I have an opposing view, but to me, I'm being highly logical and reasonable (...) pet battles sucks, stupid pitty features in general suck. (...) if you can't acknowledge that cataclysm was the worst expansion, then your opinion as a whole is invalid.

I'd almost rather let the irony speak for itself, but I must indulge... Are you aware of what logic is in any formal sense? I would imagine not, given that your line of "logical" reasoning is fallacious in various ways. I won't bother considering your "formal" argument structure given the fact that your conclusion is scarcely related to any premise that is not "my opinion is", "my preferences are", "my dislikes include".

Furthermore, I never indicated your comment as one being referred to in any negative sense, or any for that matter. I actually appreciated that you took the time to express your opinion, however much it is just that. If you'd notice, my original post included a few possible points that may have influenced the perception that Cataclysm was a bad expansion. I never said it is not a bad expansion. You can hardly claim logical reasoning when you did not consider your opposition's argument, and have no more than a loosely formed opinion of your own. Best of luck to you in your "wisest enhancement shaman" endeavours.

The only nice things about Cata were the first tier, Molten Front and Ragnaros (the latter of which I am taking peoples word for because the rest of FL was so terrible I didn't want to raid that tier anymore).

DS was awful the rest of FL was terrible and the storytelling outside of Molten Front was hilariously bad. They did a pretty good job telling LKs story in wrath but then they fumble it up so bad that we barely even felt any threat from Deathwing because outside of burning a few zones and the first quest of the expansion we barely saw the guy. Then there was the lack of stuff to do which basically forced you to level a bunch of alts to do the exact same small amount of content because Cata was first time in WoWs history were you could realistically just run out of stuff to do. Then to top it off some of the worst questing experience in the games history. Cata is the reason you can justify needing to never have flying below max level under any circumstance.

sry but cata was bad
deathwing split the world in half and then takes a long long vacation.
spice it up with a lot of bosses suddenly returning like zombie onyxia and nefarian, ragnaros returning again from a history point of view why couldn't they just have stayed dead. To many small tiers and hideouts with a few bosses.
As much as naxx was recycled at least it was fun and well having 10 and 25 man back then made it quite fun from a social point of view.

new zones to far apart and without any connection. the old world rebuild though probably necessary removed a lot of fun quests and put everything on rails there is no exploration and enjoying the scenery somehow.

hmm faction capitol as the waiting place well no fun at all, but considering in tbc we where waiting in shat and in wotlk we waited in dalaran so nothing really new there except in cata we waitid in the capitol for the que to pop wow. The annoying thing about it all was that valor vendors,portals, honor vendors where all placed in SW or Oggri so the other capitols in your faction where at an disadvantage and to be honest i liked hanging out in other capitols than sw or oggri, other better music and different scenery.

mass summons while a nice feature mostly just was a feature for lazy people to go afk and let other people summon them when the other people arrived at their destination...

got no problem with a slow release of content as long as it is interresting content, but extremely small raid patches etc. and troll dungeons no that was just insulting.

And yeacata was plain bad because it destroyed many raiding guilds nuff said.

You must be one of the players who just clicks accept and turn in on the quests you do and don't even listen to the NPCS when you're in a raid.

First off in TH when Alexstrasa and DW fight, they are both HEAVILY wounded. Alex moreso, but her consort helps fight off DW to where he retreats to heal and devise more powerful methods(Ultraxion). So no he didn't just "take a vacation".

Secondly, Ragnaros was NEVER killed. The elemental lords can only be killed within the elemental planes(Skywall, Firelands, Deepholm, and Abyssal Maw). Killing one of them in our world only sends them back there to regenerate. Ragnaros is NOW killed completely as is Al'akir.

Eh you slightly have a point with Nef

WotLK had more small raids than Cata(so did TBC).

The vendors in Org/SW comment is wrong to say too since the vendors were in Shatt or Dalaran in their expansions and Org/SW in vanilla. That's not a cata exclusive issue.

Outside of what this guy said, none of the people can say what was wrong about DW in cata or great about DW outside of cata much like Illidan in TBC. People like to say DW was great and had so much lore in WC yet he didn't. Much of his lore was hashed out later and even then it wasn't exceptional. There was nothing great about DW or Illidan that their end was wrong in any way.

To the people who complain about the DW fight, it's hilarious that people think it was bad since soooooooooooo many people couldn't fathom fighting DW when he was announced for cata because of his sheer size. So what other way would you have fought him? It was the way they did it or on another dragon.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Unholydevil

The only nice things about Cata were the first tier, Molten Front and Ragnaros (the latter of which I am taking peoples word for because the rest of FL was so terrible I didn't want to raid that tier anymore).

DS was awful the rest of FL was terrible and the storytelling outside of Molten Front was hilariously bad. They did a pretty good job telling LKs story in wrath but then they fumble it up so bad that we barely even felt any threat from Deathwing because outside of burning a few zones and the first quest of the expansion we barely saw the guy. Then there was the lack of stuff to do which basically forced you to level a bunch of alts to do the exact same small amount of content because Cata was first time in WoWs history were you could realistically just run out of stuff to do. Then to top it off some of the worst questing experience in the games history. Cata is the reason you can justify needing to never have flying below max level under any circumstance.

As usual people who like to say cata sucked really can't explain it other than saying "it was bad" and that is exactly what this post is. It just names what the person didn't like as in I didn't like X zone. No reason why they just say they didn't like X and list several items of that sort or say "worst questing ever" yet do not expand to say WHY because they can't explain why. They just want to be a cool kid and knock on cata.

Casterclysm was terrible. Let's not even start this "Oh casterclysm wasn't really that bad" crap. It was a horrible expansion with almost nothing to do after the first tier. What's that you don't raid? Have fun in these heroics that can take up to an hour, lord help you if you get dead mines. Have fun in the same 2 troll dungeons for TWO patch cycles. Seriously we had to deal with the same 2 dungeons to cap valor if we didn't raid, and that went on for not one, but two patch cycles! But then we got super easy endtime and LFR and that was the only saving grace for casterclysm.

Let's also not forget that the entire plot for why we did anything in that expansion was sold to us in a book!

I personally had quite a bit of fun in Cata. I found the raids all pretty fun with some of my favorite fights I've every participated in. I think the bad reviews DS got are unwarranted. Before the nerf stacks the fights were pretty well tuned. Spine was insanely difficult from a healing perspective. The only problem I have with DS is that DW himself was easier than Spine. Other than that I did not really have any problems with Cata.

Cata started great no negative words from me about that, 4.1 i found very enjoyable (though i was dissapointed they didn't continue the story line till 5.2).
4.2 was alright in the beginning. really small raid of 7 bosses of which only really Ragnaros was a good boss, rest was okay'ish at best. the molten front was good, but it felt a bit small in my opion. compared too 4.0 4.2 was a step down, then 4.3 came with Dragon Soul and it all went down the pooper.
3 new dungeons who were really boring and far less enjoyable then all of the previous dungeons (especially compared too the 4.1 dungeons which i loved). Dragon Soul was agian small, filled with Meh bosses. there were some difficult ones amongst them at the start but with the nerfs and gear upgrades this lasted no where near long enough.
making the ending of cata very lackluster.

Cataclysm was not good. In comparison to all other expansions it just didn't have a lot of content to do, and Dragon Soul/troll dungeons really were groan worthy.

Had a newly leveled character at the start of Cata, which is now my main, I grinded out basically all previous expansions content loremaster, the Insane, all reps, mounts, as many achievements as I could. (Mind you it had all been nerfed cause it wasn't current.) including all of Cataclysm's stuff as soon as the patches got released. Where as in MoP I still have heaps of stuff to complete, and the expansion is nearing the end, there's not enough time in between raiding and content releases to complete everything! Which is great, you still have different options of things to do and will keep me subbed. I honestly have a to-do list to try and complete as much stuff as I can before the next expansion.

All the reasons you listed is pretty much why Cataclysm was a horrible expansion.

The main reason I played in WotLK and TBC was "I want to defeat Illidan, I want to defeat the Lich King".
In Cataclysm I didn't feel like Deathwing, he felt silly, and you could tell pretty early on they were playing Thrall up to be the hero, not the players.

“The north still reeks of undeath. Our homelands lay in ruin. Pandaria oozes our hatred and doubt. What hope is there for this world when the Burning Legion again lands upon our shores?” - Eric Thibeau

To the people who complain about the DW fight, it's hilarious that people think it was bad since soooooooooooo many people couldn't fathom fighting DW when he was announced for cata because of his sheer size. So what other way would you have fought him? It was the way they did it or on another dragon.

It certainly wouldn't involve doing the same thing four times in a row.

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people - Martin Luther King, Jr.

Let's look at launch:
-The Redone old world zones weren't that great. Certainly not worth the Dev Time, imo.
-T11 WAS Good.
-Heroics ON LAUNCH were great.

Launch was actually okay.

but then things went downhill quickly.
-Scrapped Content (WoE Raid, Abyssal Maw Raid [In hindsight the sooner we left Cata the better.)
-Deathwing's Character was ABSOLUTELY BUTCHERED.
-Terrible plot.
-Launch Dungeons nerfed.
-4.1 Zul'again dungeons (ZA was cool and all, but I don't want to do it again, especially with 4 randoms)
-Firelands was visually boring, filled with fights with super gimmicky mechanics that weren't fun (Rhyolith.) and only had ONE good fight on Heroic (Ragnaros).
-Dragon Soul was a piss poor raid, done in recycled zones, having snorefest mechanics, reused boss models. It was terrible all around.
-Laps around Orgrimmar/Stormwind while waiting for queues
-Portals Everywhere
-Tol'barad couldn't compete with Wintergrasp
-Introduction of LFR
-Called "Casterclysm".
-Uldum was a bad zone.
-Madness of Deathwing was the worst excuse for a fight that I've ever seen.

..the List could go on...

Let me put it this way, I've been playing since PreBC, Cataclysm was the only expansion where I have ever unsubbed, and I did it twice.

So no, you're wrong, if anything that expansion is worse than we remember.

I didn't find Cataclysm bad. It did kind of suck how the launch 5-mans became irrelevant to ZG/ZA, and those to the HoT dungeons, but overall I enjoyed it. Now yes DS wasn't all that great, but I liked all the bosses on Heroic, aside from Spine, and I do wish they'd have come up with an original location and not stuck us at Wyrmrest Temple. I loved BoT, BWD, and FL. Rag was fun.