Well then let's make an assumption based on what we've seen in the movies and read in the eu. Would you guys put Anakin and Sidious in 9? Gillard says 9 is the dark side, but does that mean Yoda, Mace, and Obi-wan can't get past lvl 8? I know Obi is lvl 8, but does he have the potential to get any better?

Of course Anakin could block force lightning with his Saber, if Obi did it in EpII then Anakin could easily do it in EpIII.

That was Dooku's weak and pathetic lightning, not the Emperor's much stronger lightning. I don't think Anakin could block any of the Emperor's lightning because he isn't as strong as the Emperor. Luke couldn't block lightning either.

Lucas comments about "young boys, old men and half-droids" being bad with lightsabers have kind of been supplanted by the fact he has shown in the prequels that old men and half-droids are pretty damn good with lightsabers. So instead, I take the viewpoint that the *only* reason the lightsaber fighting is the way it is, is because of the age of the films.. there's not really a satisfactory "in universe" explanation. Especially when it comes to Vader vs Obi-Wan II.

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I understand what you are saying about that comment being supplanted, but I still think OT Vader and Obi-Wan are meant to be less good with the saber than Episode III Mace, Yoda or Sidious.

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sometime between episode 3 and episode 4 Obi-wan was probilly around Mace level in terms of lightsaber skills. Vader and Obi-wan got older in episode 4 so they can not fight as good as they used to.

Dooku had smoother flowing lightning that could be easily blocked by a lightsaber. Palpatine's lightning was much more staticy, and harder to block, as seen with Mace and Yoda. Luke would have had much difficulty had he tried to block the lightning with his hands or saber.

sometime between episode 3 and episode 4 Obi-wan was probilly around Mace level in terms of lightsaber skills. Vader and Obi-wan got older in episode 4 so they can not fight as good as they used to.

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Well, I know you would never give Mace the credit of having more talent for lightsaber dueling than Obi-Wan. It is strange, your argument here, because I remember that in Dooku's case, you said he had to be more powerful than Mace because he was older and more experienced. But when Obi-Wan clearly is not as good in Episode IV as Mace is in Episode III, it is his age that is to blame. People must really hate Mace Windu, using all these double standards to deny him any credit.

In any case, there is nothing to support the notion that Obi-Wan was around Mace's level as a duelist some time between Episodes III and IV, so it is a completely unsupported opinion on your part. In fact, the fact that the Emperor is still alive in the OT seems to indicate otherwise, although that is debatable.

sometime between episode 3 and episode 4 Obi-wan was probilly around Mace level in terms of lightsaber skills. Vader and Obi-wan got older in episode 4 so they can not fight as good as they used to.

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Well, I know you would never give Mace the credit of having more talent for lightsaber dueling than Obi-Wan. It is strange, your argument here, because I remember that in Dooku's case, you said he had to be more powerful than Mace because he was older and more experienced. But when Obi-Wan clearly is not as good in Episode IV as Mace is in Episode III, it is his age that is to blame. People must really hate Mace Windu, using all these double standards to deny him any credit.

In any case, there is nothing to support the notion that Obi-Wan was around Mace's level as a duelist some time between Episodes III and IV, so it is a completely unsupported opinion on your part. In fact, the fact that the Emperor is still alive in the OT seems to indicate otherwise, although that is debatable.

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Actullay I give Mace alot of credit . Mace, Obi-wan,Anakin,Yoda,Qui-gon,Luke are all my favorite jedi. But some people don't give Obi-wan any credit but every one is entiled to there own opinion.
Well if Mace does have more talent then Obi-wan it is because he is more experianced and has been a jedi longer then Obi-wan, If Mace was still alive he would not fight as good as he used to because he would be much more old and he would be hiding with Obi-wan and Yoda to wait to train Luke. By A New Hope Obi-wan does not fight as good as he used to because of his age and he has not been fighting for almost 20 years.If he kept fighting he could have got better.
I do not need any evedince because onscreen it shows a jedi can get better with experiance.

I believe that the answer to this question is absolutely yes ... Anakin was supposed to destroy the Sith, not join them ... Just like Obi Wan said it before.

The reason why Palpatine became interested in Anakin's career after TPM was because of his power, nothing else ... Palpatine and Anakin became friends, and even Anakin saw Palpatine as his mentor ... But, Palpatine decided to make Anakin his apprentice when the Jedi was old enough (23-24 years old) ... By the time of the Clone Wars.

Over the 20 years between the sagas I believe that Obi-wan spent his time watching Luke and training himself in the Force (and with Qui-gon also). His sabers skills probably declined. He knew that Vader had eliminated almost all the Force-users in the galaxy, so he wasn't concerned about dueling with anyone. In the case that he'd confront Anakin, he figured he would probably die and become one with the Force.

In Vader's case, he has an entire army to do his dirty work. In the case that he planned on using his saber, he's still good, but not as good as before because he hasn't practiced in a while, and he's part mechanical. People say "But Grievous is 90% machine and Vader's 50%. Grievous can use 4 sabers effectively and killing Jedi in their prime." True, but Vader didn't want to sacrifice his human body for a machine body. He replaced what he lost, and added machine to KEEP HIM ALIVE, not to enhance his ability. He's a walking life support machine, where as Grievous is a walking weapon.

Fortunately for Anakin, his power (Or lack thereof) didn?t matter in fulfilling his destiny as the Chosen One.

"At this point, Vader?s plan really now that he knows he?s his son is to convince him to come with him. Join the Dark Side and together they?re going to overthrow the Emperor, which is the thematic devices used through the whole movies in terms of the Sith, which is Sith Lords are usually no more than two because if there are three, then two of them will gang up on one to try to become the dominate Sith. Anakin would have been able to do it if he hadn?t been debilitated and now he?s half machine and half man, so he?s lost a lot of the power of the Force, and he?s lost a lot of his ability to be more powerful than the Emperor. But Luke hasn?t. Luke is Vader?s hope. His motives at this point are purely evil. He simply wants to continue on what he was doing before which is get rid of the Emperor and make himself Emperor. He only sees his son as a mechanism for the ambition. His mad lust of power."

--George Lucas

Yeah, the PT Anakin had the potential to be more powerful than Sidious, but power and destiny have nothing to do with one another.

Anakin?s compassion for Luke, is what gave him the ?strength? to defeat Sidious and fulfill his destiny.

Over the 20 years between the sagas I believe that Obi-wan spent his time watching Luke and training himself in the Force (and with Qui-gon also). His sabers skills probably declined. He knew that Vader had eliminated almost all the Force-users in the galaxy, so he wasn't concerned about dueling with anyone. In the case that he'd confront Anakin, he figured he would probably die and become one with the Force.

In Vader's case, he has an entire army to do his dirty work. In the case that he planned on using his saber, he's still good, but not as good as before because he hasn't practiced in a while, and he's part mechanical. People say "But Grievous is 90% machine and Vader's 50%. Grievous can use 4 sabers effectively and killing Jedi in their prime." True, but Vader didn't want to sacrifice his human body for a machine body. He replaced what he lost, and added machine to KEEP HIM ALIVE, not to enhance his ability. He's a walking life support machine, where as Grievous is a walking weapon.

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I agree Both Vader and Obi-wan have not been fighting for a while so they are not as good as they used to be.

First, Obi-Wan wasn't there to be as good as Vader. He did what he did for a reason. It was for Luke. He might not have been able to beat Vader, but he knew he could hold him off for the time that he needed to. And also Vader had been fighting. I've read "Shadows of the Empire" and Vader has training droids that he fights. He kicks they're a$$, no matter how hard, but he still would rather fight the real thing. Anakin always was one for fighting.

At the time of Revenge of the Sith, Palpetine might have one if vs. Anakin becasue of the experience factor. I mean even HE did say to Yoda "Darth Vader will become more powerful then either of us"
So basically, Anakin can say that he is more powerful, because with alittle time and alittle more knowledge, it was inevitable that Anakin would be more powerful than Sidious.

Anakin could have only beat the Emperor in the future, not at the time of ROTS.

The OS says the Emperor is the most powerful dark side practicioner. Lucas referred to the Emperor as the "toughest" in regards to his duel with Yoda. McDiarmid said that his character is "much more powerful" than Anakin. According to Master Replicas, the Emperor and Yoda are the "greatest wizards of the Force in the galaxy".

Yoda sent Obi-Wan to fight Anakin, meaning he considers the Emperor the stronger of the two. Obi-Wan can fight Anakin because of his experience, but can't even compete with the Emperor. The Emperor said: "Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us." That means he isn't as powerful as the Emperor yet.

The Emperor displayed better lightsaber skills than Anakin. He killed the first two Jedi in one move each. Anakin wasn't able to do this with the Jedi in the Temple. In the hologram, Anakin is fighting two Jedi, one at a time. Both of them block at least two strikes. The OS and novel say Mace's posse are three of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced, so the Jedi left in the Temple must be inferior. Anakin couldn't even kill inferior Jedi as easily as the Emperor did.

In any case, there is nothing to support the notion that Obi-Wan was around Mace's level as a duelist some time between Episodes III and IV

I agree. I don't think Obi-Wan would improve in lightsaber skills and then suddenly go downhill. Episode III was Obi-Wan at his prime. That's the best he would ever fight- at level 8. Dooku, Yoda, and the Emperor managed to maintain good lightsaber skills in their old age. Obi-Wan didn't.

In any case, there is nothing to support the notion that Obi-Wan was around Mace's level as a duelist some time between Episodes III and IV

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I agree. I don't think Obi-Wan would improve in lightsaber skills and then suddenly go downhill. Episode III was Obi-Wan at his prime. That's the best he would ever fight- at level 8. Dooku, Yoda, and the Emperor managed to maintain good lightsaber skills in their old age. Obi-Wan didn't.[/quote]

I dissagree, Obi-wan's lightsaber skills could have improved but he and Yoda both stopped fighing because Luke was the only one to defeat the empire. Obi-wan is not one of the weakest, He is one of the strongest, I think Obi-wan is getting underestamated because by episode 3 because he was not a 9 yet. if he can't improve then by A New Hope he would have been fighing the way he did in episode 3. But I think the duel in A New Hope proves that he and Vader have not been fighting over the years. Obi-wan has been studing over the years in the ways of the force.But he has not been fighing over the years because he had to watch Luke. So that is why he could not improve.

Lucas said he was at least as strong as the emperor, The Novel sayes Anakin is the most powerful jedi and I always thought that Lucas himself edited the Novel. I think Mace,Yoda,Palpatine are getting to much credit and Obi-wan and Anakin are getting underestamated.

Lucas said he was at least as strong as the emperor, The Novel sayes Anakin is the most powerful jedi and I always thought that Lucas himself edited the Novel.

Lucas made it clear that Anakin is weaker than the Emperor during ROTS. The novel says that Anakin is the most powerful Jedi of his generation. Mace and Yoda are not of the same generation as Anakin.

There you go. Out of Palpatines own mouth.

He said "will become more powerful". That means Vader isn't as powerful as the Emperor yet, confirming the sources I listed in my previous post. Anakin could become more powerful than the Emperor in the future. At the time of ROTS, he is much less powerful than the Emperor.

Lucas said he was at least as strong as the emperor, The Novel sayes Anakin is the most powerful jedi and I always thought that Lucas himself edited the Novel.

[hl=orange]Lucas made it clear that Anakin is weaker than the Emperor during ROTS. The novel says that Anakin is the most powerful Jedi of his generation. Mace and Yoda are not of the same generation as Anakin.[/hl]There you go. Out of Palpatines own mouth.

He said "will become more powerful". That means Vader isn't as powerful as the Emperor yet, confirming the sources I listed in my previous post. Anakin could become more powerful than the Emperor in the future. At the time of ROTS, he is much less powerful than the Emperor.

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I am not sure But didn't it say he was possibily the strongest out of any generation.

Being possibly the strongest out of any generation doesn't mean that you're definitely the strongest. It means there's a chance that you're not the strongest. Lucas called the Emperor and Yoda the "toughest" during their duel. The OS says that the Emperor and Yoda are the most powerful practicioners of the dark and light sides. This would mean that both of them are stronger than Anakin.

Lucas never said that Anakin was as strong as the Emperor. All of the sources I listed said exactly the opposite. Mace says that Anakin is arguably the greatest Jedi in the novel. "Arguably" means that it isn't definite. The OS confirms that Yoda is the most powerful Jedi during ROTS.

Anakin may not have been MORE powerful, but i still think he had to be close at that stage.
He handled Count Dooku with relative ease. Yoda and sidious may of knew more force tricks.
But it looked to me that anakin with a lightsaber is as deadly as any of the other jedi or sith.

I do believe that yoda and sidious were more powerful in terms of their knowledge of the force
and ability to create/block lightning and throw senate Pods around.
But in a lightsaber duel, if Anakin had a lightsaber in his hand i still think he was more than a match
for sidious or yoda. Big problem arrives if he loses his lightsaber.
Thats when da men and there little green friends would cream him.

By the way, has anyone seen how anakin loses his 2nd arm. i still cant see it being cut off.
You just see Obi-wan Slicing his legs off, and then his 2 arms are missing when he slides down
the bank( I know he still has the mechanical arm, i mean the 2 flesh n bone arms )

Anakin may not have been MORE powerful, but i still think he had to be close at that stage.

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McDiarmid said that his character is "much more powerful" than Anakin. This means Anakin wasn't even close to the Emperor's power level.

SLASHAXL said:

But in a lightsaber duel, if Anakin had a lightsaber in his hand i still think he was more than a match
for sidious or yoda. Big problem arrives if he loses his lightsaber.

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The Emperor displayed better lightsaber skills than Anakin. He killed the first two Jedi in one move each. Anakin wasn't able to do this with the Jedi in the Temple. In the hologram, Anakin is fighting two Jedi, one at a time. Both of them block at least two strikes. The OS and novel say Mace's posse are three of the best swordsmen the Jedi Order ever produced, so the Jedi left in the Temple must be inferior. Anakin couldn't even kill inferior Jedi as easily as the Emperor did.

in my opinion, the emperor sent anakin to the jedi temple to realize his full ability, the reason he wasnt as smooth flowing as the emperor is because the darkside was still kinda not fitting right, he wasnt 100% evil yet, slowly he became more and more evil and the reason he didnt beat obi wan is because he still wasnt all the was there, it was still not as easy for him to use his hate as energy, its hard to adjust to a new concept the second it is presented.

I say this.........Sid did not destroy Yoda. So I look at them as equals, but Anikan has more midichloines than even Yoda. Yes Anikan is way more powerful, but No one lets him know the power that he has