HookahGod wrote:They still sell stuff - jus' saying. If I sold coffee at my camp to support a charity distributing food to those starving in Africa, would that be a less worthy cause?

You're absolutely right, seriously. Obviously the proper response to such hypocrisy is to not attend the event (less seriously).

Just to be offer another point of view, the principle you refer too is:

DecommodificationIn order to preserve the spirit of gifting, our community seeks to create social environments that are unmediated by commercial sponsorships, transactions, or advertising. We stand ready to protect our culture from such exploitation. We resist the substitution of consumption for participatory experience.

That's not quite the same as BRC LLC selling a product onsite, when that product has been determined (correctly or incorrectly) as necessary to the event. Expectantly from an organization that suggests it is better to bring your own stuff than it is to buy theirs.

That said, if the community as a whole determined that coffee sales were not providing a "necessity" (which they haven't), only then would it be riding over the line into commodification. Or at least, this is my point of view.

An Erik, there's no whine here, only wine and snark. Come by my camp, Janky as Fuck at 8:30 and H (hopefully). I'll show you how fun it is to wine!

I had actually plonked you, but your post still showed up in Fishy's quote. Anyone with a camp called "Janky as Fuck" has got to have at least some redeeming qualities, so I'm putting you on my visit list.

Swing by Fandango/ BRC Weekly and look me up- ask around at the Slow Burn Lounge. We're the only dive bar on the Esplanade (at 4)

Apox wrote:I for one appreciate the cost of burning man being as high as it is. Think about it, if the tickets were just a hundred bucks cheaper, it would open more doors for the 'less civilized' to enter. And by 'less civilized', I mean people who only care about themselves, and don't participate or enjoy what it means to be at burning man. If it was a cheap or free event, theft would be high, hard drug use and sells would be extreme, and more trouble would arise more then what it would be worth.

To put it bluntly, poor people would ruin the exclusiveness of the event.

that sounds a little bit harsh.. I do see your point about high prices being a good thing, however I don't really care for the idea that because you made it to burning man you must be rich..

I work part time for a sculptor, and I make just over minimum wage.. my husband works in IT (yeah he's obviously the bread-winner) but we are by no means rich and yet we are making plans to attend. I don't think it's the cost of the ticket that is a direct factor in who shows up, as much as it is people who are able to get their shit together and make it happen. I do have friends who have no money and less ambition who like to talk about going with us next year.. but the thing is they just like talking about things more than actually doing them. In my opinion THAT is the big difference, because my friends I mentioned would have to get a job just to get a ticket to the thing! and where will they stay? Yes, I think they want to go. Yes, I think they are excited at the idea.. but they can't bring themselves to pour over the website and the guides. So..unfortunately there are people like that who manage to get a ticket and attend.. but maybe view those attendees as a teaching opportunity? maybe it doesn't have to be driven from such a negative place?

also I don't mean simply catering to moochy friends when I say "teaching opportunity"

I hope the actual Playa isn't full of as many snobs as this. What a joke. No matter what you want to call yourself, BM is still nothing but a bunch of hippies to the outside world.. same as a Rainbow Gathering. What a silly concept... rich hippie snobs.

I'm poor as hell but have always had the dream to make the journey across the country to BM. The hate I see on these boards is enough to make me wanna give that up. It seems like if I did make it I'd be disappointed by the people.

Why be so elite, looking down on people? I understand what you're saying, that if it was free it'd be a whole different crowd. I understand why people need to pay for the ticket. But why all the hate?

P.S. I'll admit I've been to Bonnaroo the past 4 years, (never again) Lollapalooza and I consider myself Rainbow Family. Oh, and I'm from Alabama. I suppose I wouldn't be welcome in such an elite group of intellectuals, would I?

gnossos wrote:I'm poor as hell but have always had the dream to make the journey across the country to BM. The hate I see on these boards is enough to make me wanna give that up. It seems like if I did make it I'd be disappointed by the people.

There is far, far more drama on these boards than there is at Burning Man proper. Don't let what you see here keep you from attending

gnossos:even being "poor as hell", and you attend all these other festivals? Well, poor as hell, is a relative statement, I suppose.That aside, have you read all the info about attending? Can you be "radically self reliant"? meaning provide all you need, for yourself, for the entire time?If so, and if you can afford a ticket, and getting there, the , "jump in"........there are all kids in BRC. But, don't try sneaking in..........Gate and Perimeter, will get you. Know that. And, if they do, everyone with you will also be pinched. (this admonition due to the title of this thread).

Otherwise, it'll be great. and, if not, it's not like you have to go again.

A lot of the "hate" as you see it, is, folks way of warning others of pitfalls............

gnossos wrote:I hope the actual Playa isn't full of as many snobs as this......P.S. I'll admit I've been to Bonnaroo the past 4 years, (never again) Lollapalooza and I consider myself Rainbow Family. Oh, and I'm from Alabama. I suppose I wouldn't be welcome in such an elite group of intellectuals, would I?

I love comparisons of BRC to the rainbow family. It only gets made by people that have experience with one of them. Bonnaroo, Lollapalooza, all that: NOTHING like Burning Man. At all.

gnossos, it's all a matter of planning. I am by no means rich or fully employed, but I already have 1/4 of my 2012 ticket money saved. If one starts preparing now, it is affordable. But one must be able to plan over a years time. A lot of drainbow family lack the self-determination to do so.

Why be so elite? Cause it takes A LOT of fucking effort to go to BRC. I proudly look down on people that can't get their shit together enough to go, & I'm glad they are not at TTITD draining others resources, time & other things. It lets the prepared have more fun.

I have one week to soak in as much of brc as I can. We planned and sacraficed and prepared plans a, b, c, d and e so we could get out there and SEE and DO. Not so we could bail out some underprepared goof ball. Sorry if that comes across as unhelpful or not burney enough, but goodness. We have ONE WEEK to soak it all in.

Now, if my neighbor is there and their plans a, b, c fail, of course i'm all over helping out. Love to do it and glad I can.

But yeah, sometimes teaching moments can be tough love.

When the only tool you got is a hammer, every problem looks like a hippie.

Mmmmmm I love the smell of Burning Man - Token

Getting overly dramatic about the ticket sale process is so 2012. - Maladroit

Ugly Dougly wrote:I think that sneaking in because you can't afford a ticket is teh wrong reason to sneak in. If you don't have enough money, stay home and hang out at the park.

Sneaking in because you want to be bound and man-handled by Ygmir is the RIGHT reason to sneak in.

Hu? Didn't happen to me.Feel cheated.

But really sista...Why would you say..

hippydippychick#48828 wrote:....BM is still nothing but a bunch of hippies to the outside world.. same as a Rainbow Gathering. What a silly concept... rich hippie snobs.

I'm poor as hell but have always had the dream to make the journey across the country to BM.

what are you saying? We are Snobs, Hippies, yet, you want to come all the way out that thing in the Desert.

My 2 centsShower before you come. don't be a snob. do NOT insult burners glibly, (that loud mouth jerk, who you just sneered at; also knows where the Ice-cream semi-truck is parked)Shower before... oh already said thatleave the drum at home, we aren't those kind of hippies.

oh and look into the camera next time.

Sark is free, sex cost you a smile.

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri