Krymsun wrote:Studies Show Marijuana Consumption Not Associated With Dangerous Driving, May Lead to Safer DriversAnyone who consumes cannabis on a regular basis knows that it doesn’t make you a dangerous driver. Many people find that it makes them a safer, more focused driver; one that’s more aware of their surroundings and the dangers associated with controlling tons of gasoline-filled metal. Not only has this been an anecdotal truth for as long as cars and cannabis have been paired, science has also been clear that consuming marijuana doesn’t make you a dangerous driver, and may make some people safer drivers. More research is needed, but it’s hard to deny that of the research we have, marijuana hasn’t been found to increase a person’s risk of an accident. To back this claim up, here’s a list of studies and research conducted on this very topic, some of which were funded by national governments in hopes of different results. http://thejointblog.com/studies-shows-marijuana-consumption-not-associated-with-dangerous-driving-may-lead-to-safer-drivers/

The incidence and role of drugs in fatally injured drivers"There was no indication that cannabis by itself was a cause of fatal crashes.” REFERENCE: Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Report No. DOT HS 808 065, K. Terhune. 1992.http://ntl.bts.gov/lib/26000/26600/26685/DOT_HS_808_065.pdf

Marijuana and actual driving performance“Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate when they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC’s adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small.” REFERENCE: U.S. Department of Transportation study, 1993http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Misc/driving/s1p2.htm

Role of cannabis in motor vehicle crashes"There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks.. The more cautious behavior of subjects who have received marijuana decreases the impact of the drug on performance, whereas the opposite holds true for alcohol.” REFERENCE: Marijuana: On-Road and Driving-Simulator Studies; Epidemiologic Reviews 21: 222-232, A. Smiley. 1999. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10682259

"Both simulation and road trials generally find that driving behaviour shortly after consumption of larger doses of cannabis results in (i) a more cautious driving style; (ii) increased variability in lane position (and headway); and (iii) longer decision times. Whereas these results indicate a 'change' from normal conditions, they do not necessarily reflect 'impairment' in terms of performance effectiveness since few studies report increased accident risk." REFERENCE: UK Department of Environment, Transport and the Regions (Road Safety Division). 2000.http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Cannabis: Our position for a Canadian Public Policy“Cannabis alone, particularly in low doses, has little effect on the skills involved in automobile driving. Cannabis leads to a more cautious style of driving. However it has a negative impact on decision time and trajectory. This in itself does not mean that drivers under the influence of cannabis represent a traffic safety risk” REFERENCE: Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs. 2002. http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/371/ille/rep/summary-e.htm

The Prevalence of Drug Use in Drivers, and Characteristics of the Drug-Positive Group"There was a clear relationship between alcohol and culpability. In contrast, there was no significant increase in culpability for cannabinoids alone."REFERENCE: Accident Analysis and Prevention 32(5): 613-622. Longo, MC; Hunter, CE; Lokan, RJ; White, JM; and White, MA. (2000a). http://www.grotenhermen.com/driving/longo1.pdf

The Effect Of Cannabis Compared With Alcohol On Driving“Although cognitive studies suggest that cannabis use may lead to unsafe driving, experimental studies have suggested that it can have the opposite effect.” U.S. National Library of Medicine, 2009http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

The Effect Of Cannabis Compared With Alcohol On Driving“Although cognitive studies suggest that cannabis use may lead to unsafe driving, experimental studies have suggested that it can have the opposite effect.” REFERENCE: U.S. National Library of Medicine, 2009 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2722956/

Risk of severe driver injury by driving with psychoactive substances"The study found that those with a blood alcohol level of 0.12% were over 30 times more likely to get into a serious accident than someone who’s consumed any amount of cannabis. .. The least risky drug seemed to be cannabis and benzodiazepines and Z-drugs."REFERENCE: Accident Analysis & Prevention; Volume 59, October 2013, Pages 346–356http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457513002315

Acute cannabis consumption and motor vehicle collision risk"There is no evidence that consumption of cannabis alone increases the risk of culpability for traffic crash fatalities or injuries for which hospitalization occurs, and may reduce those risks." REFERENCE: British Medical Journal, 1999; M. Bates and T. Blakely

Krysum thanks for posting such good info but don't you know that those pesky things called facts and attributing them to actual sources will only confuse the simpleton prohibitionists? The only thing that will save them from their own ignorance on this matter is a good smoke so if any of you consumers should happen to encounter those who chose to be ignorant (aka prohibitionists) won't you offer them a toke?

SteveM wrote:Um...classify this is kind of obvious. More people smoking pot = more people driving under the influence of pot. And add this to the many reasons WE DID NOT NEED ANOTHER LEGAL intoxicating substance to add to traffic mortality. Did we? So tired of this baloney. So tired of weed lovers giving us a bunch of crap about how it's just fine. It's not fine.

I'm so tired of the people spewing hysterical rhetoric giving us a bunch of crap of how we don't need any evidence to support their bald faced lies. You don't just get to declare yourself right. You liars made the same claims in 2000 about A-20. It never matters how many times you get proven wrong. Maybe if you weren't so self righteous even though you've been proven wrong, wrong, wrong...but facts and evidence just don't matter to you people, not even a little bit. You people just keep on lying.

The motto of the Know Nothing prohibitionist is:"Never let the facts stand in the way of disseminating an effective piece of hysterical rhetoric."

penaltyshot wrote:Far too many of these arguments are based on a comparison with alcohol, and that's the problem with them. It's very easy to prove that pot is safer than alcohol, but that certainly doesn't make it safe.

It does if, on the whole, legalized cannibis reduces the number of drivers impaired by the more dangerous substance (acohol). If legalizing cannabis reduces the number of traffic fatalities overall, how is doing so not "safe"? Here's your study...

penaltyshot wrote:Far too many of these arguments are based on a comparison with alcohol, and that's the problem with them. It's very easy to prove that pot is safer than alcohol, but that certainly doesn't make it safe.

It does if, on the whole, legalized cannibis reduces the number of drivers impaired by the more dangerous substance (acohol). If legalizing cannabis reduces the number of traffic fatalities overall, how is doing so not "safe"? Here's your study...

This isn't a discussion on the legality of MJ, is it? It's legal, that's over and done with, and I do hope that when it's shown that it has positive effects on society that it will be legalized in other states as well. This is a discussion about driving stoned, though, which is a different subject... don't confuse the two.

What I do know is that I see a lot of people drivng down the road smoking their pipes. And lots of people standing around various outside areas puffing away. So, reason says that if they are smoking while driving and smoking outside buildings they are probably stoned by the time they get home.

wingshot wrote:We've had MMJ for over ten years, full recreational use for more then a year, and the statistics show no increase in impaired driving. Seems pretty clear to me. Once again, trying to create a problem that doesn't exist. Carry on.

According to the article there are no statistics being kept so exactly how would statistics show anything one way or the other?

From the article: "Since July, there have been 12,567 cases filed across Colorado where driving impaired — either by alcohol or drugs, including marijuana — was the most serious charge, according to the Colorado Judicial Branch. That puts the state on track for a little over 21,500 such cases this fiscal year, which is in line with the two previous fiscal years...Overall traffic fatalities are also relatively flat. There were 422 fatal crashes on Colorado roads in 2013, 12 fewer than in 2012 and 15 more than in 2011, according to CDOT."

"— either by alcohol or drugs, including marijuana "

That isn't a statistic for other drugs, alcohol, and marijuana.

It is a lump statistic that includes all of them.

A statistical analysis requires specific data and over more than one year to indicate a trend one way or the other. This specific data is not available because it is not being kept.

You people really are precious. The problem is impaired driving. You claim that the rate of impaired driving would be increased by passage of A-64. When presented that you're wrong, again, you simply claim that unavailable statistics would prove you right. What you people don't appear to be able to grasp is that it the number of scofflaws that go out driving when impaired. If all 15 thousand whatever swear off drinking alcohol and instead go out driving impaired by cannabis, there has not been an increase in the problem. You people are not being rational, you're being hysterical. There's obviously no factual evidence that will get you to admit that you don't understand the nature of the problem. You act as if one anecdotal soldier who did something stupid in Vietnam is proof of something. The only thing it would be proof of is stupidity of anyone who accepts your word that this person actually existed, that he was stoned on pot, and that it caused him to sleep though this enemy barrage. You've proven that you have a reckless disregard for the truth and anyone who believes a word that you say is in desperate need of a check up from the neck up. The truly pathetic part is that you probably actually have yourself fooled into believing yourself to be honest. It's just plain pathetic.

Toodles!

The motto of the Know Nothing prohibitionist is:"Never let the facts stand in the way of disseminating an effective piece of hysterical rhetoric."

Ignatius J. Reilly wrote:It is funny that you added operating dangerous equipment, flying an airplane or performing surgery. That is a very naive argument against marijuana.

Why would responsible people all of a sudden get high and fly a plane or operate on someone? It does not make any sense.

It's particularly absurd to anyone who has actually looked at the FAA's list of restrictions on drug use. I hope you don't think that a pilot with hay fever can take a Benadryl and then fly.http://www.leftseat.com/medcat1.htm

The motto of the Know Nothing prohibitionist is:"Never let the facts stand in the way of disseminating an effective piece of hysterical rhetoric."

penaltyshot wrote:This isn't a discussion on the legality of MJ, is it? It's legal, that's over and done with, and I do hope that when it's shown that it has positive effects on society that it will be legalized in other states as well. This is a discussion about driving stoned, though, which is a different subject... don't confuse the two.

The title of the article is "Colorado marijuana legalization's impact on stoned driving unknown", so I'd say that a discussion on the aggregate impact of legalization on traffic fatalities is very much in play. I'd argue that it's the single most salient statistic in the discussion.

The fact of the matter is that those states which have legalized MMJ have seen traffic fatalities drop by more than those states without MMJ. Significantly more. That's a good thing, and it's an important part of this discussion that doesn't get nearly enough airtime in the media.

NUNYASo you are saying that people that generally drink and drive are now smoking and driving instead? Give me a break. People who smoke pot smoke pot. Come up with something more intelligent than that. Could it be that people are not drinking and driving as much?

coloskier wrote:What amazes me about this thing is that people who smoke pot will do ANYTHING to try to keep it legal or make it legal. No addiction issues there whether it be physical OR mental...........

ANYTHING? you obliviously don't understand what that word means. You may be willing to give your rights away because its some thing you don't care about but when they start talking about taking away some trivial thing you enjoy, can we call you a cry baby and sick in the head?

f150man wrote:NUNYASo you are saying that people that generally drink and drive are now smoking and driving instead? Give me a break. People who smoke pot smoke pot. Come up with something more intelligent than that. Could it be that people are not drinking and driving as much?

No, that's what the researchers who performed the study said. Specifically, they said:

Why does legalizing medical marijuana reduce traffic fatalities? Alcohol consumption appears to play a key role. The legalization of medical marijuana is associated with a 6.4 percent decrease in fatal crashes that did not involve alcohol, but this estimate is not statistically significant at conventional levels. In comparison, the legalization of medical marijuana is associated with an almost 12 percent decrease in any-BAC fatal crashes per 100,000 licensed 20 drivers, and an almost 14 percent decrease in high-BAC fatal crashes per 100,000 licensed drivers.

The negative relationship between legalization of medical marijuana and traffic fatalities involving alcohol is consistent with the hypothesis that marijuana and alcohol are substitutes. In order to explore this hypothesis further, we examine the relationship between medical marijuana laws and alcohol consumption using data from the Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System and The Brewer’s Almanac. We find that the legalization of medical marijuana is associated with decreased alcohol consumption, especially by 20- through 29-year-olds. In addition, we find that legalization is associated with decreased beer sales, the most popular alcoholic beverage among young adults (Jones 2008).

I realize that knee-jerk prohibitionists are generally averse to data, but in case you're the exception to the rule, you can find more in the full study: http://ftp.iza.org/dp6112.pdf

Last edited by Shiznizitz on February 10th, 2014, 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

coloskier wrote:What amazes me about this thing is that people who smoke pot will do ANYTHING to try to keep it legal or make it legal. No addiction issues there whether it be physical OR mental...........

ANYTHING? you obliviously don't understand what that word means. You may be willing to give your rights away because its some thing you don't care about but when they start talking about taking away some trivial thing you enjoy, can we call you a cry baby and sick in the head?

In relation to this article, that "trivial" thing is endangering public safety by driving while under the influence of the drug.

There is no right, natural or otherwise, to endanger public safety.

"The only people who don't want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide." (Barack Obama August 21, 2010)

coloskier wrote:What amazes me about this thing is that people who smoke pot will do ANYTHING to try to keep it legal or make it legal. No addiction issues there whether it be physical OR mental...........

ANYTHING? you obliviously don't understand what that word means. You may be willing to give your rights away because its some thing you don't care about but when they start talking about taking away some trivial thing you enjoy, can we call you a cry baby and sick in the head?

In relation to this article, that "trivial" thing is endangering public safety by driving while under the influence of the drug.

There is no right, natural or otherwise, to endanger public safety.

Texting is a trivial thing isn't it? Why is no one talking about making it illegal?

WesM55 wrote:In 2012, 34 of 630 Colorado drivers involved in fatal accidents tested positive for active THC or inactive THC metabolites. This is a 33% reduction from 2011. Of the 34, 10 were also drunk, 4 were drinking, 7 were positive for additional drugs, leaving just 13 THC only drivers.

Here is what every toker should to to support Colorado's experiment in legalization: 1) Wear your seat belt, since more than half of the fatally injured drivers were unrestrained. 2) Stop drinking alcohol outside the home. 3) Don't speed, especially when you are sober, since excessive speed was a factor in most accidents involving unimpaired drivers. 4) And of course, don't drive while impaired by any substance.

You owe it to yourself and the rest of the world!

13 THC-only drivers. 2%.

I wonder how many of the 630 were unimpaired.

Glad you asked, 463 of 630 Colorado drivers involved in a fatal accident in 2012, 73.5%, tested negative for both alcohol and drugs.

"The primary factors generating the 2012 fatalities are speed, alcohol and failure to use seat belts. Among the fatal crashes, 162, or 34 percent, were speed-related and 133, or 28 percent, involved a driver who was impaired by alcohol, according to the Colorado Department of Transportation. There were 287 passengers killed in 2012, among them 156, or 54 percent, were not wearing seat belts." http://www.coloradolaw-blog.com/of-gene ... atalities/

Last edited by WesM55 on February 10th, 2014, 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

coloskier wrote:What amazes me about this thing is that people who smoke pot will do ANYTHING to try to keep it legal or make it legal. No addiction issues there whether it be physical OR mental...........

ANYTHING? you obliviously don't understand what that word means. You may be willing to give your rights away because its some thing you don't care about but when they start talking about taking away some trivial thing you enjoy, can we call you a cry baby and sick in the head?

In relation to this article, that "trivial" thing is endangering public safety by driving while under the influence of the drug.

There is no right, natural or otherwise, to endanger public safety.

Texting is a trivial thing isn't it? Why is no one talking about making it illegal?

While driving?

Apparently you haven't paid much attention to national, State. or local news and issues.

"The only people who don't want to disclose the truth are people with something to hide." (Barack Obama August 21, 2010)