The zoo burst is way off the rails. Then again, so is warrior cooldown stacking, chaos bolt, frost bomb, etc. Anyway, needs a nerf badly.

Funnily enough, warrior/BM was a pretty decent comp throughout TBC. So was BM/warlock. No joke, obviously back then a lot of "random" setups worked because most people didn't know how to play but still, it was pretty popular in most European battlegroups.

Even if it wasn't played before I don't see why new combos becoming viable is a bad thing...

Did no one notice the change to rabid already? It makes it impossible for the BM pets' AP to reach the bugged level that woudl take them from 8-9k hits to 50k hits. Thats what was causing stampede to one shot the whole team and its been fixed now. Time to sit back and see if they are still OP after that. Probably will be, but we will see.

My God, what a horrible creation. People seeing what they want? Thank God they tried to shy away from that. I know it pisses me off when I'm in an heroic raid, yet in the back of my head all I can think is 'some casual player is playing a heroic dungeon and not wiping.' -Vodkarn

while at least one of them was a top or even overpowered comp each season from s8 until s12... and now you're saying hunters were a bad class? Stop it please, your last comment about ele shamans being prefered to hunters is just plain bullshit.

ATC was due to PVE gear, DBW and heavy arp gear combined with natural prot warrior survivability meant they could go near 100% arp and still not die instantly.

Look at the other very obvious overpowered comp during s8: TSG, shadowmourne much?

s9 kfc oneshot was all warrior. Hotfixed almost immediately
blizzcon was just one team outplaying the other, those koreans outclassed everyone in the tournament, player skill was the determinant factor not team composition.
s10 jungle was inferior version of kittycleave and fmp. And in the case of jungle it was the feral carrying the hunter.
There was no triple dps in s10 as far as im aware
s11 was hunter's only real half decent season and that was all due to pve gear

Seems like they are just ignoring this one. Their damage is out of control, their self-healing is out of control. Yet the one change for hunters comes as a buff to MM (which I'm perfectly fine with).

Will Blizzard keep letting the mongoloids currently running with the overpowered BM Hunter keep doing so? Sure seems like it...

Thoughts? Are they really going to ignore this glaringly imbalanced bull**** and ruin the entire first season or what (similar to leaving warriors extremely OP for season 9 then nerfing them into oblivion)? I'm not saying they need to go the route of warriors and be nerfed beyond viability. But they need to be reigned in. Period.

And before this even derails into a discussion about whether BMs need nerfs or not, they do. That part is undeniable.

The question is, where are the BM nerfs?

I dont play a hunter, but I'll vote for hunter nerfs when warrior healing gets nerfed...

--- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕI come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

Bm hunters burst is only due to popping cds off the start, pretty easy to avoid tbh then a bm hunter with exception to cc is worthless for the next 3-5 minutes. If you're dying to bm burst you are bad plain and simple. Now if you're allowing the other team to get you to use def cds before the hunter pops stampede and such then you just got out played. No nerfing needed. Currently imo I think they should leave all classes alone, feels to me like this is the MOST balanced I've seen in a long time, maybe even ever.

It's not about being counterable. It about skill to success ratio. It's waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too low for BMs. Probably the lowest it's ever been(yes, even compared to s5 DKs).

ATC was due to PVE gear, DBW and heavy arp gear combined with natural prot warrior survivability meant they could go near 100% arp and still not die instantly.

Look at the other very obvious overpowered comp during s8: TSG, shadowmourne much?

s9 kfc oneshot was all warrior. Hotfixed almost immediately
blizzcon was just one team outplaying the other, those koreans outclassed everyone in the tournament, player skill was the determinant factor not team composition.
s10 jungle was inferior version of kittycleave and fmp. And in the case of jungle it was the feral carrying the hunter.
There was no triple dps in s10 as far as im aware
s11 was hunter's only real half decent season and that was all due to pve gear

s8 - obviously pve gear - with how easy it was to pug 25 man everyone had those few pieces

s9 - hotfixed immediately.. imagining much? it wasn't nerfed until 4.1. I also met a lot of 2700+ phds in s9 (and well, farmed them as mls), but it was obviously still viable, the korean team just proved that. And the classic hunter reply, "my teamates solo'd the enemy, I didn't even do anything (other than doing that chimera crit and insta ccing the healer indefinitely)"

s10 - you're just wrong, jungle was a top comp and definitely better than kittycleave, I don't even know how you managed to bring up kittycleave when mls was everywhere. Also trip dps was around, just not popular. I remember it because on sylvanas there was a very successful hunt/rogue/ret and I was wondering myself how that works.

s11 - So tosan's thugcleave was fulll pve geared or what are you trying to say?

s8 - obviously pve gear - with how easy it was to pug 25 man everyone had those few pieces

s9 - hotfixed immediately.. imagining much? it wasn't nerfed until 4.1. I also met a lot of 2700+ phds in s9 (and well, farmed them as mls), but it was obviously still viable, the korean team just proved that. And the classic hunter reply, "my teamates solo'd the enemy, I didn't even do anything (other than doing that chimera crit and insta ccing the healer indefinitely)"

s10 - you're just wrong, jungle was a top comp and definitely better than kittycleave, I don't even know how you managed to bring up kittycleave when mls was everywhere. Also trip dps was around, just not popular. I remember it because on sylvanas there was a very successful hunt/rogue/ret and I was wondering myself how that works.

s11 - So tosan's thugcleave was fulll pve geared or what are you trying to say?

s9 was hotfixed, didn't you read the pages of QQ about colossus smash when it was 100%? That plus pre nerf juggernaut meant that warrior could kill in a throwdown when healer had to eat the monkey blind.

PHD was mainly the DK, frost was retarded then. Hunter was just along for the ride for the cc once again.

s10 was all about wizards, jungle was just a fairly strong 2.2k comp but again feral was the overpowered spec, hunter was riding on coattails

You're trying to compare a multi class multi gladiator to regular people

The reason Blizzard hasn't nerfed BM, is because 1. They aren't finished with all the class changes and 2. Blizz is (hopefully) smart, and realizes that while our burst is insane, our sustained is pretty sub-par, so if they nerf our burst into the ground, then they'll ruin the spec entirely. They need to nerf our burst, but buff our sustained.

s9 was hotfixed, didn't you read the pages of QQ about colossus smash when it was 100%? That plus pre nerf juggernaut meant that warrior could kill in a throwdown when healer had to eat the monkey blind.

For PvP purposes, burst really should go down, but sustained damage MUST to go up. Bringing burst down and not bringing sustained up would have a seriously detrimental effect on PvE. Hunters start off a fight at the top of the meters as BM, but then generally peter down to middle of the pack, especially when the execute phase rolls around. Lowering that opening burst and doing nothing to sustained (therefor bringing sustained damage actually down) would do nothing but make hunters compete with tanks for single-target dps.

I knew this kind of QQ would come. Blizzard made an insanely hard to master class 100 times easier, now everyone is being destroyed by all the hunters who were forced to play well in Cataclysm. This isn't just a numbers problem, this is a player skill problem that everyone has to put up with. Sure a poorly skilled hunter can play the class well and kill people right now, but the people who were top notch in Cataclysm are now causing some serious chaos now that Blizzard opened up the stables and gave us free reign to shoot how and where we want.

Nerf hunters, fine. You'll never be able to nerf the player though. You will still be beaten, and you will still cry. It's the reason mages are thought of as OP all the time. They're easy to play, easy to master. Nothing Blizzard can do about it.

s9 was hotfixed, didn't you read the pages of QQ about colossus smash when it was 100%? That plus pre nerf juggernaut meant that warrior could kill in a throwdown when healer had to eat the monkey blind.

PHD was mainly the DK, frost was retarded then. Hunter was just along for the ride for the cc once again.

s10 was all about wizards, jungle was just a fairly strong 2.2k comp but again feral was the overpowered spec, hunter was riding on coattails

You're trying to compare a multi class multi gladiator to regular people

And yes ayume had legendaries.

About KFC you're wrong based on facts, not even your biased opinion. 4.0.6 was almost half the season.

The korean dk played unholy a lot in the tourny, not that it matters. And again the usual "in every top hunter comp the hunter is there only for the ride because it can't solo healers and has this shitty thing called cc, in no way could this ever possibly mean the class has t1 comps available".

I guess playing with and vs glads all the time I tend to take that as the norm, not challengers. I do know that at lower skill levels hunters weren't as easy to succeed with - doesn't mean the class wasn't good. You're also making it sounds like all these comps required some rocket science skills from the hunter though. Monkey trap the healer, scatter silence after, coordinate with some cross cc and follow up cc with partners, kite a bit, duh.

And every other rogue over 2k rating had those free legendaries, every rls, every rmp. Every boomkin and warlock had rathrak and cunning, every mage stacked pve gear, every dk, warr and ret had gurth. How is pve hunt gear even an argument - in your favour? What pve gear did they even use, 2 piece? Tosan even said at some point he prefered 5/5.