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Good day, denizens of OC.net! Per our tradition, the forum will shut down for Clean Monday, beginning around 9pm Sunday evening (2/18) and ending around 9pm Monday evening (2/19). In the spirit of the coming Forgiveness Sunday, I ask you to forgive me for the sins I have committed against you. At the end of Great and Holy Week, the Forum will also shut down for Holy Friday and Holy Saturday (times TBA).

See my above statement. Being a nice person means nothing. I hope you realize this. There are going to be a lot of nice people missing out on the splendors of God in the afterlife.

And are you okay with this? Is it all about being on God's "team" (and the correct team, at that)? Or can someone be somewhere doing the work of a Christian (service, charity, self-sacrifice, love of neighbor) without really knowing it or labeling it as such? Will God judge your heart and your actions in life, or just your Certificate of Baptism?

It makes little difference what I am ok with. I don't make the rules.

And that would be a 'yes'.Good people going to hell is okay with you because you believe those are "the rules". Sorry, it's just that this kind of attitude has never made any sense to me.

It is not a yes. It is an acceptance of what we know to be true. There is but one path to God and that is not through some great effort on our behalf. What does being a nice person really mean? How is this going to help any more than not being a nice person or randomly being a nice person, or even being a mean person? This is all subjective to what you or I think a nice person is or what a nice person should be doing. These are our earthly standards, which have little or nothing to do with God. Nice is good, but it is not enough.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

Spoken like a true Southern Baptist. Lest you think I persecute you without cause, in my experience I only heard this sort of phrases from the more theologically aware baptist-types; the orthodox just don't talk like that and do not frame the thing like that. There is no Orthodox aversion and scorn to the concept of "being good/nice" whatever that is, at least never came across with something like that.

See my above statement. Being a nice person means nothing. I hope you realize this. There are going to be a lot of nice people missing out on the splendors of God in the afterlife.

And are you okay with this? Is it all about being on God's "team" (and the correct team, at that)? Or can someone be somewhere doing the work of a Christian (service, charity, self-sacrifice, love of neighbor) without really knowing it or labeling it as such? Will God judge your heart and your actions in life, or just your Certificate of Baptism?

It makes little difference what I am ok with. I don't make the rules.

And that would be a 'yes'.Good people going to hell is okay with you because you believe those are "the rules". Sorry, it's just that this kind of attitude has never made any sense to me.

It is not a yes. It is an acceptance of what we know to be true. There is but one path to God and that is not through some great effort on our behalf. What does being a nice person really mean? How is this going to help any more than not being a nice person or randomly being a nice person, or even being a mean person? This is all subjective to what you or I think a nice person is or what a nice person should be doing. These are our earthly standards, which have little or nothing to do with God. Nice is good, but it is not enough.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

I guess by "nice" I am thinking of genuine kindness. The Golden Rule is not unique to Christ's teachings, and frankly, many non-Christians exhibit true kindness better and more regularly than many Christians.

This makes me think of the Parable of the Good Samaritan in St. Luke's Gospel.

"Who is my neighbour?", the expert in the Law asked Jesus...

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”

I was thinking of those "nice" people that help and love their neighbours, whether subscribing to any particular religion or not. I guess what really bothers me is when people casually and matter-of-factly claim that good people cannot be saved because, for one reason or another, they do not call themselves Christians. This would of course include many good people that I know and love.

But perhaps I've misconstrued what you wrote. I do that sometimes.

I'm uncomfortable ruling on anyone's salvation, good or evil. That's for God to do.

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Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.