Trade policy in the EU

Germany's blast at Barroso

MY previous post on the Commission's flawed proposal on giving itself the power to retaliate against countries that restrict European firms access to public-procurement markets mentions the strong opposition of Germany.

It is striking that Germany finds nothing good to say about an idea so assiduously pursued by France, its closest partner. It may be because Germany runs the EU's bigggest trade surplus, so has most to lose from a trade war. Or it may be that it understands thatdélocalisation, which so worries France (with its big trade deficit), is precisely what has helped Germany gain competitiveness by creating a global supply chain that controls production costs.

- While fully agreeing with the aim of the proposal, to strengthen the EU´s leverage in negotiations with third countries, we disagree with the tactical approach. It would be difficult to argue against “buy American” while installing “buy European” at the same time. The proposal would seriously damage the credibility of the EU in its fight against protectionist measures established elsewhere.

- The EU´s leverage in negotiations with third countries can be strengthened by other means.

- The proposal causes the risk of retaliatory measures by third countries.

- [It] would create a “fortress Europe” at a time when the EU is depending on open markets to work our way out of the crisis. The major aim of public procurement is “best value for taxpayer´s money”. To achieving this aim, we need more competition on the procurement markets, not less.

- The proposal would also seriously endanger the internal market and distort competition between EU companies.

- In a globalised economy components of EU products are frequently produced in third countries. This is especially the case in the following sectors: IT-industry, electronic industry, engineering industry and automotive sector. The possible exclusion of tenders could therefore endanger the leading position of many EU companies in several sectors. The Commission proposal would also have a particularly negative impact on small and medium-sized companies.

- The proposal would create new bureaucratic burden on contracting authorities and companies, instead of making procurement procedures more simple.

With your second bailout coming do you realise that because of your wonderful “EU” you are regarded as an “Untermensch” by your sponsors? I spend a lot of time in Germany, where the people as a rule keep their emotions tightly bottled up. The mood with the price and VAT hikes is getting uglier by the week. They know full well that the “EU” has everything to do with this, but in their true altruistic “bunker til the last man” mentality they are still willing to shoulder it, for as long as the PPs are brainwashed into thinking that they are EU-ropeans.
At the same time their regard for e.g. Portuguese and others has diminished.
30 years ago, particularly the young would have been genuinely curious to find a Portuguese in their midst. But not now. Oh, they would maintain a correct discourse with you, but privately there would be other thoughts:
you see, Pedro, even with this mindset they would still think the “EU” is a wonderful doctrine, but that it is failing because of the “Untermenschen” that they must share it with.

Here are a series of final, closing questions, slightly more abstract.

An American black begins to notice circa 1920 that he is living in a systematically racist society. He begins to understand his life-circumstances as sociologically and legally conditioned by all kinds of racism, both overt and subtle. Looking back from our vantage point, if we were to meet him, we would say that he is right. In fact, we would say that those alive in 1920 who depicted the United States as a perfect, non-discriminatory meritocracy were utterly blinkered; that they were victims of false consciousness. But even more so, we would cast even more scorn on those who might have preached to the black guy, circa 1920:

“Oh, it’s all in your head. This is America, after all! Anyone can succeed! You’re just pitying yourself, and you’re only seeing discrimination where none exists!”

We would now condemn such people, above all, because who are they to arrogate to themselves the right to over-ride this man’s own self-description of his experience? Similarly, what right did a WASP have in 1935, to tell an Italian-American that there was no anti-Catholic discrimination in the United States? And finally, what right does any WASP have today, to claim that Australia and Canada, circa 2010, are now perfectly diverse, completely meritocratic, fully just societies?

Sure enough, if you are a WASP yourself, then they will certainly seem to be. But that’s only because for WASPs, they always have been.

The questions one can ask here are almost timeless. Is it racist to begin to think that one is the victim of racism? Is it discriminatory to think that one has been the victim of discrimination? Who decides the “truth” in such matters? Should we automatically trust the intuitions of those insiders born into the dominant religion, race, ethnicity, class, or gender? Given everything that we know about history and sociology, and how discrimination works, a person's very membership in the elite would seem to epistemically disqualify them for making such judgments. But even still, the record of “blaming the victims” of discrimination is a long one: blaming feminists for being sexist, blaming blacks for being racist, blaming Catholics for being sectarian, or blaming the working-class for being classist.

There are no easy answer to such questions. But perhaps the very worst possible answer, is to pretend that such questions are easy to answer, or that they have been answered.

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CODA: I will be going away for a day, so please know that I will only be able to reply to your response late in the evening (Tuesday), or the next day (Wednesday). And I guess our further discussion of the EU will need to take place later, perhaps once I am in Portugal? I now have a great deal of packing and miscellaneous chores to do, before taking the boat from Plymouth on Sunday…..

Viva;
You are suggesting something extraordinary a blind date of some pen pals with different political views, different nationalities, unknown sexual orientation (Marie can really be Claude), cultivating only pseudo-attraction to the same magazine (mostly unaware of the actual topic) but really bonding by the addiction to each other written thoughts and reactions (with many exemptions) .

I am still puzzled by the first and second string group. Does it mean different tables one with a view and the second by the toilet doors? I am for it, Paris 2012, Athens 2013 with lowly drachma and Miami 2014 with lowly dollar.

Good to hear from you. I have reposted your post below, because I wanted us to start things off in a new thread:

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You expressed the opinion that an Italian or a German would probably prefer to emigrate to the US than to either Canada or Australia. The reason for this, if I understand you correctly, is as follows.

As Europeans, Italians and Germans would feel more at home in the US because of the supposed ‘German’ influence which makes the US somehow ‘more European’ than either Canada or Australia, which are ’50 years behind the US’ and too Anglo-centred.

Remarks: I can’t speak for Canada, but I can for Australia. Bearing in mind the difference in population, 20m (A) against 300m (US) I suspect that Australia attracts more immigrants than does the US. It’s simply a question of proportion and Aus being so much smaller. After the Brits, the Italians are the most numerous European residents in Aus, 216,000, followed by the Germans, 128,000, high numbers for a country of 20 m inhabitants, don’t you think? I can’t find the figures for the US. However, I suspect you are very wrong about your Italian/German ‘preference-for-the-Us’ theory.

Australia is far away, underpopulated and relatively unknown in Europe, but it is certainly NOT ’50 years behind the US’.

Aus is high up the human development index and has a developed welfare state, similar to many European states. Might our Italians and Germans not feel more at home here? Aus is now a multi-cult society. Are you implying there is some sort of apartheid between the Anglos and all the other cultures? Try reading ‘The Slap’, which I finished a few days ago, by Christos Tsiolkas, one of Aus’s best known authors. An Anglo? No, a man born and bred in Aus of Greek parents. A book that takes Aus to bits. There are thousands of examples of non-Anglos making good in Aus. Why shouldn’t your Italian or German?

If I may say so, you have fallen into the usual race/nationality division which is common on this thread. Emmafinney and Crammerboy write postings with statistics to show how the Anglo influence has been the strongest in the US while La Virity and you say it is the German. I agree with Viva, it is farcical, irrelevant discussion and in any case probably impossible to determine. So in judging Australia and Canada to be unfit for European habitation, except for the Anglos, while the US is ( thanks to your wishful thinking), more suitable because it is ‘more German’, then I’m sorry to have to tell you but you’ve discredited yourself. LOL!

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Now just a warning: this is going to be a long series of posts, because you have raised a number of complex issues. This may seem a simple dispute, but it is not. I do hope, however, that given that I have taken the time and trouble to post all of the following material, that you will do me the courtesy of reading it all?

I only say this, because I am worried that you did not actually read everything that was discussed by la V and I, in that series of long exchanges, now on the second page, which set the “frame” for this current discussion. If you did not, I suppose that’s understandable: it was a lot of material. But when you summarize someone else’s arguments (as you just claim to have done, above), it’s sort of assumed that you first actually read what they wrote…..

Although granted, above you did add the nice, polite caveat, “if I understand you correctly”. You do understand me, sort of, at the beginning of your post. But not towards the end, where your understanding of my position shifts in an Emma-ward direction.

I admit to it.
I have been lying from the start.
Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, and Spain, the PIIGS, are horrible, HORRIBLE countries. They will all default on their debts, because they are ran by incompetent buffoons.
The North of Europe is the most virtuous place on the face of the planet. Inhabited by homo sapiens superior to whom southerners should relinquish their sovereignty.
The euro is doomed to end because the North and the South of Europe have nothing to do with each other.
It's all Germany's fault.
Whenever something bad happens in Britain, it IS because of the weather. Nothing could ever go wrong in Britain, because it's inhabited by demigods, and those would never EVER make a mistake.
Out of all the countries I mentioned, Portugal is the worst. I think Roubini, that outstanding economist-come-clairvoyant, is right, and the country is going to default on its debt I believe sometime tomorrow, probably around 12 o'clock.
I think Portugal and the Portuguese should be punished for their very existence. I reccomend the atom bomb.
But will leave it for our American friends to decide.
Before throwing the bomb though, please do warn in advance so I can wreck bits of motorway before I go in a mushroom.

My response to la vi who believes organization in all things is a good thing. My 3rd and last post as well. WE ALL SHOULD LAUGH MORE.

Bothered you didn't la vi? The part about not sorting my bottles. You want to come over and watch me throw my brown and green bottles in the trash with my paper goods? I do it everyday, and the sun still comes up the next morning.

Now, here is the answer to that age old question, why are we here? PLASTIC!!! You see, the Earth needed plastic, and it couldn't make it by itself. So, we are here to create plastic for the Earth. Also, when we're gone, and we will be soon enough, believe you me, plastic will be the only evidence that we were ever even here.

So, recycle to relieve your neurosis if you must, but I'm leaving my trash out in the open where the archeologists can easily find it, TO GIVE WITNESS TO MY GLORIOUS LIFE.

PS- You left out the part about the theft. AMERICA WAS BUILT ON THEFT AS WELL. Nothing wrong with it either, unless your the one who's being stolen from. Now, EAT OR BE EATEN MY FRIENDS...laughs

The seven of you seem moderately interested in religious matters, either “pro” (Viva, Zorbas), or more “anti” (the rest). But Marie-Claude enjoyed Cornwall, and seems to miss it a bit, Milovan likes pretty young women, and Junior, Pumpernickel, and Seven might enjoy having a guffah at authentic evangelical spirituality at it very best (or very worst, depending on your point of view….).

Turns out they’re students from Durham University, and members of a Christian fellowship. Their exams are coming up in May, and this was their last chance to get away before swotting for exams begins in earnest. One of their parents has a house in St. Ives, so they were taking a break for 3 or 4 days.

They asked if I wanted to join in, but I demurred. I like singing, and can hold a reasonable tune, but they sounded much better without me! However, I asked them if I could film with my iPhone. As always, Murphy’s law seemed to operate, and I lost most of the footage. The only clip that seemed to “take” was at the very end, just 2 minutes and 28 seconds long. By this point they were getting a bit cold. Half-way through you can see the two young men exchange the guitar, because the first one’s hands are numb.

A word about the sound: there is a horrible “popping” noise probably caused by the wind, and I do not know how to fix it. Tried various remedies in iMovie, but to no avail, and decided just to leave it “raw”, unaltered. I have no background in video or film editing, let alone music editing, so this is very much an “amateur” production. Made with just an iPHONE, and edited in iMovie. So please do not expect professional production values, and please do not judge too harshly….:)

Still, look at the next goodie the dictatorship has in store for the eurozone: INTERNET PRIVACY WILL BE DECREED VERBOTEN .. and they're working on it right now: I expect that you are aware that the convicted plagiarist Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg, formerly Minister of Defence for Germany, in 2011 joined the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) as a "Distinguished Statesman."
He now advises European Commission Vice President Neelie Kroes on the
promotion of "internet freedom regarding questions of foreign affairs".
Nasty bit of work. Former member of a neo-nazi Bürschenschaftverein while at the Uni of Bayreuth where he plagiarized his doctorate.

Gives you an idea of the calibre they seek in Brussels as henchmen for unelected "Vice President" Neelie Kroes.

When the EU wants to usurp power in any particular arena, first they replicate the National institutions that they want to destroy, then they drip feed legislation that gradually transfers all the functions of that institution to the EU level, until the National version is hollowed out. This same modis operandi to remove democracy from Europe that has been used for decades.

The “EU “ is now readying their own world wide web,to the effect:
EUindiaGRID
EUasiaGRID
EUafricaGRID
EUmedGRID
Gisela (South American grid)
EUchinaGRID
etc.
The programme that is to connect these grids is to be called CHAINgrid or similar.

On the “EU”'s grid every effort will be made to make will be make anonymity almost impossible.

It appears that the EU will attempt to assault internet security in its current form by drip feeding legislation (as per usual) into the nation states that will cause the commercial sector to move over to their grid for 'security'. Loss of the commercial sector would render the current internet unviable. Again, duplicating and hollowing out is their standard modus operandi, reagardless of the stultifying effect on commerce.

Power and control is all the “EU” stands for.

With appropriate “facemen” like van Rompuy, Martin Schulz, von und zu Guttenberg et al, all they need to do is tweak their silly flag a little, you know, by replacing those little stars with swastikas.

How about America and Canada? America became the nation of waiters, waitresses, bartenders, fruit pickers, and maids. Do you know how much they are paid? It could be far worse than French. French have Germans that subsidise them. America has no country that subsideses her.

“Of course, Europe is not German. How could it or why indeed should it?“

You missed my point which lies in the *We*s of my post. The “we” could only come from a German who believes in something like the Perpetuum Mobile of the the Euro/DM, while blind to the results of this German/DM-inspired currency which has simply not been the “size that fits all” that its architects claimed it could be – hence coming unstuck with the FPIIGS.
That is what was meant by “the penny still hasn't dropped in pumperland that 'Europe' is not German” – the “DM/Euro” is your evidence, no matter what desperate conjuring tricks Schäuble is obliged to play for The Cause.

Unfortunately what may have almost worked for D, NL, Finland and Austria will not for the PFIIGS, yet they are all “European”.

“Unity through Diversity” may be the “EU”’s wishful nod to the “E Pluribus Unum” of the USA, but its point of departure could not have been more different nor could its course have proven such a goal attainable. In the USA a consensus was planted naturally by the peoples who brought it into being, who shared the necessary ‘mores’ that also, importantly, created a ‘demos’ that made sense of it.

I am not sure why you bring Britain into this except to tell them “Join Us Or Else”.
Perhaps you should take note of how the “euro” has worked out for the EZ.

Because I had such trouble with the original sound, I decided to splice on the Hughes/Hillsong audio-track, then reassembled the 2 1/2 minutes of footage as very slow-motion vignettes – which, as everyone knows, become a bit “jerky” when you go a bit too slow-mo…. So again, my apologies in advance for that. The final piece comes to approximately 11 minutes. I promised these students that I would post the video footage on YouTube, so they could download it. Once working on the footage, however, thought I could do a bit more than merely post the raw video. Their singing al-fresco like this, worshipping together in fellowship through contemporary song, was so incredibly moving……

Personally I spend 30 minutes each day quietly meditating, and when in discursive-mode, my faith can often get a bit “intellectual-Catholic”. However, there is also another part of me that loves a guitar mass. A Catholic Newman Center church where I once sung in the choir had a terrific guitar-mass, and at least 50 % of Catholic guitar-mass songs are written by contemporary Jesuits. So the fusion of sophisticated Jesuit theology with contemporary melodies always “hits home”. Even still, this Ted Hughes/Hillsong version of “Consuming Fire” takes contemporary Christian music to a completely new level. And yes, it has made me want to seek out more evangelical-Protestant contemporary “Jesus Music.” Marie Claude, here is the website that were looking for, to provide a way in, that traces the origins of contemporary Christian Rock music to the 1960’s Jesus movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_music .

Hindus say that there are at least 4 paths to God: karma-yoga (the path of ethical conduct and good works); dhyāna-yoga (the path of meditation); jnāna-yoga (the path of wisdom and intellectual endeavor); and bhakti-yoga (the path of loving devotion). In Hindu bhakti-yoga, God is conceived as a personal, loving Other, worthy of worship in song and dance. At least 95 % of practicing Hindus are bhaktas, and as such, the Hare Krishna movement (with which you are all no doubt familiar) is actually more representative of authentic traditional Hinduism, than the various Hindu meditative practices and philosophies that have been kicking about amongst elite Westerners over the last 100 years. Most Hindus are every bit as “happy clappy” as Protestant evangelicals.

My favorite moment in this video is when the young woman dressed in black becomes so happy in her praise of God (or, so intent on keeping warm!), that she begins jumping up and down, in a manner familiar to all Hindus, everywhere……. I also took advantage of the fact that You-Tube allows one to post Sanskrit, and closed with some popular Hindu sayings, which translate as follows:

The last three were a deliberately composed trifecta in homage to the most important Upanisadic mahavakya, or “Great Saying”: God is “sat cit ananda”, or “being, consciousness, bliss” – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satcitananda .

Happy Easter,

Theomorph

PS – Pumpernickel, I hope Viva’s warning was only in jest, and you don’t mind the cuneiform, i.e. the Devanāgarī script……..;-)

Wolfgang Schäuble reminds me of Davros the Dalek chief in Dr Who.
Davros was half man (the head) and half robot, who went around on wheels leading his (eu)robots and addressed humans in a rasping robotic voice.

Schäuble and Martin Schulz.
What a display!

The "EU" is proving itself the exact opposite of what it claimed to be, as an organisation so badly conceived that even the best intentions provide this result.

Now, if we can agree that the above is what I actually wrote in that other sub-thread, then we can proceed (or can we? Is this also up for grabs, in the certain someone’s postmodern-relativist land of “invent your own truth”?)

Just for the record, I want to thank you in so far as – for the most part – you seem to attend to my actual arguments, as opposed to false summaries of them peddled by the certain someone. You seem to be a professional historian by training, and I know that you like to “track reality”, which is one of the reasons it is enjoyable discussing things with you. But even still, as I will suggest below, there is also a bit of cause for concern on that front…..

2. THE UNITED STATES IS NOT AN ETHNICALLY GERMANIC COUNTRY

So it should be crystal clear from the above that I never once argued that the United States or Canada is, ethnically speaking, a predominantly "Germanic" society. In fact, one of the reasons I launched into those statistical musings, is precisely because I knew that Sikko was wrong when he claimed as much. If you go back to the very first post in that sub-thread on the second page, you will see that I began with the sentence, addressed to Sikko:

“You are somewhat right about the United States, but you are very wrong about Canada.”

In other words, Sikko was only partially right about the United States, in so far as the United States is partially an ethnically Germanic country; and Sikko was very wrong about Canada being ethnically Germanic. Those of direct German descent constitute at most 15 – 17 % of the population of the United States. Including those more broadly conceivable as ethnically "Germanic" (i.e. those of Norwegian, Swedish, etc. descent) the figure – perhaps – rises to 20 %.

If you then go back and read that sub-thread, you will see that la V disputed precisely this figure, because la V wanted to raise the percentage. And I resisted raising it. At one point, we were debating whether the Germanic-descent figure was 20 %, or more like 32 % (la V’s original claim, as a percentage of “White Americans”), or 25 % (la V’s subsequent claim). My words in that sub-thread are fairly clear.

3. ENGLISH IS CLASSIFIED BY LINGUISTS AS A GERMANIC LANGUAGE

However, I then went further, and suggested that in so far linguists classify English as a "Germanic" language (this is beyond dispute: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages ), the entire Anglosphere could also be considered linguistically "Germanic", not just Germany and the Scandinavian countries. On the following map, do notice that all the blue-bits are countries that speak Germanic languages, and that Australia, Britain, the United States, and Canada are most definitely blue -- not just Germany and the Scandinavian countries -- see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germanic_languages.svg .

However, it has to be emphasized that this was a linguistic argument, not an argument about national descent. Unfortunately, a certain someone who plays awfully fast and loose with the truth, twisted my words, suggesting that I had claimed the Irish, the English, the Scots, and so on, for a Germanic heritage more narrowly conceived. This is absurd. Sure, 1000 years ago, but obviously not more recently. I only suggested that Anglosphere countries were linguistically Germanic, but not ethnically, as the Wikipedia map just referenced makes perfectly clear.

Yes, I am repeating myself here, which is getting a bit boring and tedious. But I suppose one has no choice, when someone contaminates a blog with lies? Or perhaps a certain someone is not able to follow more nuanced, subtle arguments, the way that you usually can, Junior.

I have a favor to ask. I will be visiting your wonderful country, Portugal, for the first time, arriving in about 2 or 3 weeks. I’ll be driving across the coast of northern Spain, and then down the Atlantic Coast, from Santiago de Compostela. I've been to Spain many times, but never Portugal. So I was just wondering if you – or Sanmartinian? – might have any advice?

I already know that Peniche and Sagres will be important destinations for surfing. But I also love spending time in gardens, which is another reason I stayed a bit longer in Cornwal than planned: so many gardens and camellias and rhododendrons to see, and so little time.... And I like "artsy" places, and dabble a bit in figurative drawing. St. Ives in Cornwall, where I have been staying, was an Artist colony a while back, and some of that lingers on. I've been attending figurative drawing sessions at the St. Ives School of Painting up the road from my B & B. And finally, I love coastal hiking, along rugged cliffs with ocean waves smashing and dramatic views.

So, I guess what I am asking is: do you know of a Portuguese version of St. Ives? I don't know how I found St. Ives, but it has been quite incredible. Apparently, Dag Hammarskjold planned to retire here, but his plane crashed in Africa…..

Some surfers here in Cornwall claim that Peniche is a lot like St. Ives. But others vehemently disagree, saying that St. Ives is much more beautiful, whereas Peniche is industrial? Also, I do not mind "cooler" or wetter weather -- for surfing, sun is not a really big factor. So I’m not looking to acquire a sun-tan on the Algarve, and I'm very open to suggestions vis-à-vis northern Portugal.

I'm mostly looking for somewhere picturesque with great sunsets – although I suppose sunrises always occur over land in Portugal, except perhaps in Sagres?

All Best Wishes,

Theomoroph

PS – As for Sikko, I think the key is not to take him too seriously, because he doesn't take himself seriously, either. Sikko is the playful prankster/trickster/fool character on the blog. And, to be honest, Sikko plays the prankster role better than most. Sikko's free-associative jabs are often so outrageously weird, that in another thread I wrote:

"You are insane. I wish I could patent your brain. You free-associate like the love-child of Jerry Lewis and a lottery randomizer – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lewis_Nutty.jpg . Do you market your talent in a more remunerative context?

Thanks for making me laugh."

I meant this as a compliment, and I hope Sikko took it as such.

Some bloggers are irritating because they aspire to serious commentary, but their posts fall short on truth, proper citations, good reasoning, objectivity, etc. Whereas Sikko does not seem to have such aspirations. He lives purely to provoke and tease. When you let him get to you, in effect, he has won.....

Dear sanmartinian,
First of all thank you! I am actually quite thrilled that I won!
Then, of course I don't mind hosting your reply to sikko... In fact, thanks again, since you put things in the right perspective, and in a systematised way.
It goes without saying that singling out Portugal 'for its woes' is fallacious to say the least. It also goes without saying, and I don't know if you knew this, perhaps you did since you know Portugal so well...
that our own class of politicians, journalists, and others, is to blame partly that these figures aren't better known by the Portuguese public opinion.
I always find myself having to prove to some, more stubborn Portuguese, that Portugal exports more machines than it does shoes, and by a country mile.
It's like doctors (MDs) per capita... you read and hear in our press that we have a shortage of MDs and that we have to hire Cubans, Spaniards, Brazilians and others to fill in their places... well recently I had to make this study where this particular figure was of minor importance, and guess what, we have more doctors per capita than OECD average..
Barreto's site, which you mentioned earlier, is in this sense, the best thing he could have given to this nation. A man of great intellect, I learned to like him and what he said ever since I was a little boy and my parents let me, my sister and my brother, stay awake longer than usual, on the evenings he was on tv, and we watched him debate with Pacheco Pereira, also back in the day when Pacheco was a better speaker. What happened to them? Getting old isn't an excuse...
Today's debates are dull....
PS: I'll accept the port, if you don't mind. :-) a toast with 'vinho fino' (how we call it in the Douro region, and in Porto) is what is needed to celebrate this.

4. AUSTRALIA AND CANADA ONLY RELATIVELY RECENTLY OPEN TO BROADER, CONTINENTAL-EUROPEAN IMMIGRATION

As you rightly summarized, the real contrast I wanted to draw was between Canada or Australia in 1960, versus the United States in 1960.

In 1960, 60 % of Canadians were still of British descent, 30 % of French descent, and 10 % “other”. Whereas by 1960, the United States had comparatively much larger Italian and Germanic populations, even as percentages, than Anglophone Canada.

Junior, this is brain-dead obvious stuff, for anyone who knows even a bit of history, and has travelled. It really should need no argument. Canada and Australia in 1960 – as “Commonwealth” countries that still had close ties with Britain, and that had racist immigration policies until these were reformed in the 1960’s and 1970’s – were culturally and ethnically speaking British “White Dominions”, with Anglophone populations that were overwhelmingly of British descent (aside from French Canada).

Whereas the United States was not: the United States had already embarked on the road towards becoming a much more ethnically diverse society back in the 19th century, when it first let in waves of German and Scandinavian immigrants – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American . Between 1840 and 1880, Germans were the largest group of immigrants in the United States. Then in the late 19th and early 20th century a huge number of Italians immigrated to the United States – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_American . Nothing even remotely equivalent took place, prior to 1950, in either Canada or Australia, apart from some Germanic immigration to the Canadian prairies. For instance, over 4 million Italians immigrated to the United States between 1880 to 1920, whereas the “first wave” of Italian immigration to Canada during the same period was a mere trickle, only 100,000 people, or 1/40 as many.

Sure, Canada is a smaller country, but Canada’s population has always been roughly 1/10 the size of the United States, not 1/40. In both countries new racist immigration laws in the 1920s stopped further Italian immigration until after the war. So major Italian immigration to Canada only dates to a “second wave” (which this time, really was a wave, and not a trickle) in the late 1950’s and 1960’s.

So my central claim has never been that the United States is a “Germanic” country, and I also did not argue – as you put it, that “Germanic influence” somehow rendered the United States more European. Furthermore, I most definitely NEVER argued that the German ethnic or cultural influence has been stronger in the USA than Anglo ethnic or cultural influence. I don’t even think that la V argued that claim. This particular sentence of yours, Junior, bears marks of “influence” (shall we say) of a certain someone’s distortions. Again, I much prefer you when you do your own reading and thinking. You probably do not want to let her to do your reading and thinking for you.

Think about it: how could I ever argue such a thing, when I have explicitly stated that ethnically “Germanic” Americans are at most 20 %, whereas Americans who trace ancestry to the British Isles are at least 30 – 35 %?

Rather, my claim has been, and is, that the United States has been an ethnically continental-European country for a very long time (to the tune of 40 %: all continental Europeans combined, both southern and northern continental-European descent), in a way that Canada and Australia simply have not been. And again, this is just dead-obvious, to anyone with even the most minimal sociological and historical background.

Granted, I know less about Australia than I know about Canada. But from what little I have read, the picture seems broadly similar. Australia experienced immigration mostly from the British Isles until the 1950’s, and only opened up to more “southern” European immigrants from 1960 onwards. But please fill in additional details, if possible.