jisahn Mujin, Your attacks at me are silly. again,you could contact this guy and set things straight, but you don't. Why not? Of course you will go back to attacking my spelling which was intentional. Just get to the point and contact the guy. And Jikan needs to be a moderator, not a side taker. JUST Contact the guy and have him respond, Jeeez!

Lynch's own friend Adam Tebbe "has written Bob Moore about the situation, and was told by Moore's senior student and Ji Do Poep Sa Nim that Mr. Moore is in poor health and finds this situation too distressing to comment further on."

You tenaciously refuse to address any of the actual issues, instead just insulting other posters. Why keep trolling here?

jisahn Mujin, How's the weather in you part of the world today? Adam Tebbe says its true so you believe it. Besides, Adam is a shifty character who publicly revealed that he has done prison time. Don't be so petty with me, Miss Thing. Do the research that proves your point. Your website is very dark, lighten up, Missy!

from reading the website of the order it is clear those who say they are bhikkhus/sramaneras/monks are either married householders or people with boyfriends/girlfriends. I have no problem with lay teachers and leaders but wish they wouldn´t use the terms Lord Buddha designated for monks and nuns following the vinaya.

In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,I must obtain control over my own mind. Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.-Atisha Dipamkarabrtsal ba'i bkhra drin

JKhedrup wrote:from reading the website of the order it is clear those who say they are bhikkhus/sramaneras/monks are either married householders or people with boyfriends/girlfriends. I have no problem with lay teachers and leaders but wish they wouldn´t use the terms Lord Buddha designated for monks and nuns following the vinaya.

It's pretty clear to my at this point that these people are going to go right on what they are doing, regardless of feedback they have received on this forum. So, not much point inc continuing. But, I'm wondering if they have those ordinations for sale, because I'm thinking that if I can pick up a Ven. Bhikshuni title to put in front of my name, and still have sex when I have the opportunity, it would be worth the money.

Jk, you seem inordinately attached to form. I am very unsettled by your constant use of the term LORD Buddha. He was a man, like you. I think you need to read some Stephan Batchelor. after all, this is about pursuit of wisdom, not static form.

Jk, you seem inordinately attached to form. I am very unsettled by your constant use of the term LORD Buddha. He was a man, like you. I think you need to read some Stephan Batchelor. after all, this is about pursuit of wisdom, not static form.

deweyboy wrote:jisahn Mujin, How's the weather in you part of the world today? Adam Tebbe says its true so you believe it. Besides, Adam is a shifty character who publicly revealed that he has done prison time. Don't be so petty with me, Miss Thing. Do the research that proves your point. Your website is very dark, lighten up, Missy!

I'm sorry, but I've done volunteer work with prisoners, as have many other practitioners who have taken refuge. Would you like to revisit your condemning, uncompassionate stance on those who have been incarcerated?

deweyboy wrote:Jikan,just because some guy states it here doesnt make it true.

That "some guy" you refer to is a Zen Master. Specifically, the Zen Master that Paul Lynch had called his teacher. But that is beside the point.

The purpose of this thread has been to get as many perspectives on this topic as possible. The comments of "some guy" have been considered. We've been waiting for eleven pages now for a coherent rebuttal, response, anything at all that could present an alternative interpretation. What have you contributed as an alternative? You've complained about the prose of those you disagree with. You've engaged in name-calling. Have you given any concrete evidence that would support your point of view and perhaps convince people that your position has merit? If so, please direct us to it.

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deweyboy wrote:jisahn Mujin, How's the weather in you part of the world today? Adam Tebbe says its true so you believe it. Besides, Adam is a shifty character who publicly revealed that he has done prison time. Don't be so petty with me, Miss Thing. Do the research that proves your point. Your website is very dark, lighten up, Missy!

Here's a concrete example. Do you expect to convince anyone of anything by throwing around ugly, misogynistic slurs like this?

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Yudron wrote:It's pretty clear to my at this point that these people are going to go right on what they are doing, regardless of feedback they have received on this forum. So, not much point inc continuing. But, I'm wondering if they have those ordinations for sale, because I'm thinking that if I can pick up a Ven. Bhikshuni title to put in front of my name, and still have sex when I have the opportunity, it would be worth the money.

Perhaps ironically, this thread emerged out of a discussion on ordination in a separate thread on the Taego Order in which related claims were aired.

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Lord Buddha is a common epiphet in the English language that I have heard used by Masters from the Theravada, Chinese Mahayana and Tibetan Traditions. My understanding is that Our Teacher started out as a regular man but reached elightenment through his great resolve and practice. To honour this accomplishment I prefer to adorn his name rather than just saying "Buddha". In this sense I am a traditionalist but I don´t insist others use this form if they do not like it.

I have read Stephen Batchelor and while I find him intelligent and interesting, I disagree with most of his opinions about how to move Buddhism forward in the West. I find the modern presentation of B. Allan Wallace to be far more compelling, but once again that´s an opinion.

I think Five Mountain Zen Order cannot blame people for being confused. Are they monks or laypeople? A Viet Namese monastic lineage or a Japanese lay lineage? How are titles granted, what training do we assume people have from the various titles? Is Ven. Wonji Dharma a student in good standing of a respected lineage holder of an East Asian Mahayana Buddhist tradition?

I am holding out that there is a clear response before this thread devolves further into personal attacks. Clarity would benefit everyone including Five Mountains. I am hopeful some response will come soon. I would actually be really glad if there is an explanation and ready to be more open to the Five Mountains Form once one is made public.

The more well trained and rooted dharma teachers we have, from any tradition, the better the chances of really helping Buddhism take root in the West.

In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,I must obtain control over my own mind. Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.-Atisha Dipamkarabrtsal ba'i bkhra drin

JKhedrup wrote:Lord Buddha is a common epiphet in the English language that I have heard used by Masters from the Theravada, Chinese Mahayana and Tibetan Traditions. My understanding is that Our Teacher started out as a regular man but reached elightenment through his great resolve and practice. To honour this accomplishment I prefer to adorn his name rather than just saying "Buddha". In this sense I am a traditionalist but I don´t insist others use this form if they do not like it.

Here, opinions diverge. In the Lotus Sutra, among the most popular sutras in East Asian Buddhism, Buddha Shakyamuni makes a series of claims that suggest he is not now nor has he been for a very, very, very long time an ordinary mortal (present tense is intentional). Depends who you ask or where you look, I suppose.

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Just to say that deweyboy's comments now echo even more clearly Paul Lynch's in other forums - jingoistically invoking "the USA"as some kind of standard, bad use of latin, referring to anonymous posters as "missy" (which is highly obnoxious, btw), snarky evasion, slinging dirt on yet another former friend and colleague, of which there is a long string (I didn't know Tebbe was in prison, and what of it? Disgusting tactic.) As his personal online stalker, I am fully convinced its him. Just sayin'.

Paul, you have some issues, my friend. But wait! That's what your teacher said when he revoked your provisional creds. Since he isn't contributing anything of substance here and only insulting other posters and throwing squid ink, can I motion for some kind of IP block? Is that possible?

Last edited by jisahn108 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.