Yes, greed in corporations and government has ruined things, but it is the apathy of the people that has allowed it.

I believe a limited government, as was intended in the US, could work very well, but only if the people did their jobs to keep things in check. But with the rampant apathy (and laziness) I see no chance of that any time in the near future.

Yes, greed in corporations and government has ruined things, but it is the apathy of the people that has allowed it.

I believe a limited government, as was intended in the US, could work very well, but only if the people did their jobs to keep things in check. But with the rampant apathy (and laziness) I see no chance of that any time in the near future.

I think you're spot on Katt. We have the government/political landscape that we've allowed to come into existence and in some cases nurtured into existence. It won't be as easy to reverse the tide as it would have been 20 or 40 years ago, but it would be easier now than it would be to do it 20 or 40 years from now. However, I just don't see it happening at this point in time. I'm not even sure that we've identified the real problem, or perhaps the totality of the problem, as of yet. I also think we lack the will.

Yes, greed in corporations and government has ruined things, but it is the apathy of the people that has allowed it.

I believe a limited government, as was intended in the US, could work very well, but only if the people did their jobs to keep things in check. But with the rampant apathy (and laziness) I see no chance of that any time in the near future.

I am not sure it is so simple.

It has been this way since before the Romans and Egyptians... This is the way people are and it has nothing to do with apathy or mankind not caring.

Let's say that I owned a medium sized pharmaceutical company and slowly, over the years we grew and grew and became a multi-billion dollar company.

Now as a multi-billion dollar company, my firm now also has spin doctors that drip feed articles into magazines and into the news that are slowly convincing people to take more of the drugs we produce if they want to live healthier and better lives.

My company has also spent millions on research of cholesterol level safety and we have convinced doctors that the safe level should actually be lower than what it currently is, thus allowing us to make billions more sales on cholesterol lowering drugs. If we haven't convinced them then my company will infiltrate the medical system and pay off certain influential people so that my tests stand.

This is one situation. Times this by the food companies, the oil companies and just about everyone else who is big and you fall back to the situation we have today.

It is nothing to do with apathy but more to do with manipulation.

Classic example, they told you that Saddam Hussain had WMD when he clearly didn't. Governments, spin doctors etc lying to it's people so as to get them on board. The FEAR tactic is the most common one they use.

My point is that there will ALWAYS be GOOD PEOPLE and there will ALWAYS be BAD MANIPULATIVE PEOPLE, and whilst the two coincide, this situation will NEVER go away, no matter what anyone thinks.

This isn't pessimism, this is just standard corporation manipulation tactics 101.

I have spent years working for some major corporations and trust me, there is NOTHING you can do about it if they want to release something into the media that allows them to make millions or billions more. At least not until it is too late, and that's if you even get to find out about there underhand tactics.

I don't, at least not as a whole. I hope your faith isn't misplaced and that my skepticism is.

I don't think we're there today. Don't misunderstand me.
But we humans are a strong bunch and when we put our minds to something, we can accomplish it.
I have faith that we can keep corporations in check with the free market, but eventually, not today. We're nowhere near prepared for that responsibility.

I hope that my Sinicism IS misplaced and would love to be proven wrong. Though since man walked the earth, when has a lack of greed or someone doing something to the detriment of their fellow man, ever never happened.

God, I really want to be wrong but from the beginning of mankind, there is always greed and manipulation.