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I am new to the piano world. I think I like the the sound of the 6'1" Otto Meister over the Peral River. I think the prepping of the piano would also be the Otto. I guess I am just worried about the build and the components of the two.

Jolly's right on both counts, in my opinion: build quality is not going to be the deciding factor here, as that playing field is level in respect to both pianos.

My subjective opinion is, that if both pianos are sufficiently prepped and in tune, you'll find the Meister preferable.

Not only because it's a bigger piano, and consequently has the potential for a scale design that takes advantage of additional space on the soundboard for longer bass strings and more advantageous bass bridge placement, but because I think other factors like hammer hardness and action design make the Otto Meister more of a pianist's piano.

Pearl River has wider US distribution, and probably better name recognition, but I think it would only give you a very slight advantage relative to resale value, if you are looking at other such factors besides inherent quality, playbility and tone.

Originally posted by Harleysdad: I am new to the piano world. I think I like the the sound of the 6'1" Otto Meister over the Peral River. I think the prepping of the piano would also be the Otto. I guess I am just worried about the build and the components of the two. [/b]

And I think you're smart to do so, since they're both Chinese.

I think the Pearl River may be a bit better in the resale department, but the other piano is bigger, and size does make a difference.

If you have tech you can trust, or you have a friend with a good tech, you may even want to have the tech look at the Otto for you. It's a little unusual for a tech to go over a new piano, but that tech fee may buy you a lot of peace of mind.

I don't remember where I read this, but the general advice is that when shopping for entry-level grand pianos, to get the biggest piano your space and budget can accommodate. The larger piano gives you more to work with, and you'll benefit more from any additional tech/prep work (voicing, regulation, etc.) you have done after the purchase.

If 6' Otto Meisters are selling for $7-8K, I wonder if they'll bring out a 7' model. Introducing one of those in the ~$10-13K range could really disrupt the market.

From a piano tech point of view I like dealing with brands that have a U.S. distributor that has a customer service dept. and stocks parts. I know that Pearl River is so in Ontario, CA. I don't not know Otto Meister in this regard. Maybe other can answer.Certainly Pear River's association with Yamaha and Steinway has given it a leg up in the profile department.

Certainly Pear River's association with Yamaha and Steinway has given it a leg up in the profile department.

Profile perhaps.

But not necessarily in the 'music' department.

Confident makers always can stand quite well on their own.

My recommendation is always to choose a piano for what it actually *is* - not because of some story about it.

At the same time Pearl River is playing up the Yamaha connection to their own pianos,I doubt very much that Steinway or Yamaha would appreciate people pointing out the connection of their pianos to Pearl River in reverse - allowing for some kind of a conclusion about the quality of their own pianos as a result of it....

This week I tickled a "hybrid" Ritmuller/Yamaha vertical (a totally decent piano - I liked it a thousand times better than a "regular" Ritmuller) and it had a little sticker on the front lower side of the keyboard that said something like "Made by Yamaha for Ritmuller."

It didn't look like something the dealer would have added on in the store (like a paper label) but was definitely a transparent sticker w/gold lettering, and not an applique'.

As a consumer I didn't really CARE that it was built by Yamaha (or whatever the deatils of that deal are) but more that it was a darn nice feeling action.

A little pricey though. I wonder if I could have gotten into a Yamaha upright for about the same $ or less.

The piano is assembled in a Yamaha/Pearl River 'joint venture' facility using Pearl River components. Apparently in China, the piano is sold as a Yamaha.

If there was a substantial difference in action performance of that Ritmuller upright vs other Ritmuller uprights, it is likely because that particular piano had received a bit of attention from the dealers tech, while the others hadn't. (or none of them had been serviced, and that one just happened to show up needing less) That's been our experience in the ones we've sold.

Yes, definitely could have been the floor stock for that dealer. Makes sense that they would fluff up that one, since it was a couple of grand more than the "average" new upright on the floor, competing with the new Kawai prices.

I also noticed that even though I was quite infatuated with the Knabe grands he had, the upright was a "Definite NO" after just a few bars. The action was light as rice paper (to my numb fingers.)

Norbert, are you suggesting that Yamaha and Steinway make business decisions without regard to quality?

Is this how you think they have taken their leadership positions in the market? By disregarding quality?

Interesting Theory. [/b]

Taking the leadership position is a branding proposition that could be built on quality or price or a good marketing slogan (who wouldn't aspire to driving "The Standard of the World?), or a good spokesmodel (unfortunately that one didn't work for Taco Bell)

Then maintaining that position becomes more a situation of selling more widgets than the widgetmaker down the street.

Easier if you outsource the widgets and sell them under another name so that the original brand doesn't get diluted except to the cogniscenti who know that A and B are the same "corporate family." (Does the average consumer in the showroom know/care about the relationship between Kohler and Knabe?)

In that case, from the boardroom, who cares if Essex is a high quality piano or not, as long as we sell a bunch of them.

If Steinway (for example) "owns" the high-end market, why should they worry about building low-end pianos except to make money by cannibalizing sales from competitors in that market?

Norbert, are you suggesting that Yamaha and Steinway make business decisions without regard to quality?

Is this how you think they have taken their leadership positions in the market? By disregarding quality?

Not at all.

In fact both Steinway and Yamaha have gained their position in the market long before ever becoming involved with Pearl River in China.

Would one be out of line to say that their previous attempts to have some pianos built such as the Ottostein and Yamaha's discontinued line of Eterna pianos,weren't exactly at the pinnacle of this manufacturer's quality?

And if the Steinway's licensed line of Essex pianos has lifted the quality of Pearl River's own pianos onto another level - and it is entirely possible they have - it would be nice to learn where and in which regard.

Also since Yamaha itself doesn't seem to mention much about their involvement with Pearl River on their part, it would certainly be interesting to learn from a Pearl River rep what exactly the company is building for Yamaha today and at this time.

It must be pretty major, considering the name of Yamaha is constantly being used in Pearl River sales presentations.

Steinway and Yamaha did built their reputations long before working with Pearl River. True. Did anyone suggest different??? See Norbert, this is another example of you trying to manipulate the innocent reader.

1. You are correct that Yamaha Corporation of America, a customer of Yamaha, does not tout the joint venture factory our two companies own and operate together. They do not import pianos from this Factory, so why should they talk it up?

If a salesperson in your market is lying about the relationship, embellishing it etc.., be specific and name him/her and what they are saying. I ask you yet again to stop being deceptive through your blanket statements about what salespeople say about our products.

You do not hear what salespeople are "constantly" saying... you are a retailer in Surrey, BC. (Although on your website you were caliming to be a wholesaler for your product lines, is this true? Which lines are you a wholesaler for?)

All you know is what you hear third party, and over the internet. Good, honest salespeople don't seem to have many stories relayed about them on the internet.

What salespeople are taught about the relationship by our reps and our company is simple. It is that Pearl River and Yamaha operate a jointly owned factory in GuangZhou, (pronounced quon-joe)China, where they build (assemble) several models of pianos for Yamaha which are not sold in the USA, and they also build the UP125M1 and UP126R models for Pearl River & Ritmuller, which are sold internationally and are imported to the USA for our dealers.

Thats it. If people draw other conclusions from the fact that our two companies have been working together in this joint venture for over 10 years now in the same city as our main plant, I would understand why, but is not at our urging or from our teaching. I don't see it a far fetched concept that Pearl River would learn from working with Yamaha and Steinway, ... do you?

2. You make the suggestion that we think our pianos have been "elevated to a new level" by our relationship with Steinway. Where did this come from? Do not put words in my mouth or others'. YOU said this, not us.

From my perspective, I am pleased that Pearl River was chosen by Steinway to build Essex pianos, which have been very well received by Steinway dealers. Also, know that some Essex models are by Young Chang.

The real problem with Norbert, is that Norbert knows all of this and continues to try to give the illusion that he does not.

He tries to paint this picture for his own personal benefit because of his proximity to and competitive difficulty with a very strong Pearl River dealer in his market. This is what Norbert WONT TELL YOU, because it would diminish his posts if he was up front about this fact in each of them.

2. You make the suggestion that we think our pianos have been "elevated to a new level" by our relationship with Steinway. Where did this come from? Do not put words in my mouth or others'. YOU said this, not us.

DaveAs a salesman who sells both PR and Yamaha I must say we do use the working relationship of PR and Steinway to indicate Pearl River is a builder of quality pianos trusted by the premier brands in the industry. Not that it makes the PR branded pianos better. Only that they are trusted to build pianos that won't fall apart for other reputable makers who have much more to lose in the event the quality is not in line with what people expect for the additional money paid for the name. Are we wrong to quietly assume the Essex branded piano is made from better parts and more care then the PR brand and its only labor they both share?

(Now if only Steinway would put their name front and center on the fall boards like Yamaha does on ALL their lines)

What you wrote illustrates my point I hope.This is in my opinion is an honest way to present the information.

I have seen the Essex pianos that Pearl River makes at two of my dealers' stores, and they are indeed different pianos than ours. They are different scales, different back assembly, cabinets, etc..., and are more money than Pearl Rivers.