I do some work with Mintronics (including first line Alibre support). Disappointing if the lack of response is from Mintronics - perhaps I can help? (or at least try to make sure we don't alienate others in the same way).

Alibre in the USA may not respond because one of your 3 accounts is 'retired' (not on maintenance) - though they should still respond if there is a fault with the software, or if you need to move a licence to a different PC. The other 2 accounts are for Xpress (a free giveaway version that is no longer available).

John, The first question is: Who else plays in the $750 range in CAD? The second question is, How is someone getting away with a $750 program when most of the market is playing in the $5000 to $15,000 range? You need to think that one through.

I will be the first to admit that Alibre has its problems. However, as someone who goes back and forth among and between Catia, SolidWorks, SolidEdge, ProEngineer, and Alibre, I can assure you that they all have their weaknesses (as well as strengths) and problems. As someone who started using CAD in 1971 (Gerber IDS), I can assure you that this is nothing new. The thing about Alibre (and most CAD companies) is that their users provide most of the real support for other users. Try posting your question/problem in the forum at http://forum.alibre.com and see who answers. This often alleviates the need for an official answer from Alibre -- and will often spark action from Alibre itself.

It is a real PITA to constantly use work-arounds to do things that should be functional in the core kernel of the program. I have my own list of bitches in this regard for every CAD product I use. As somebody who worked with Mark Eyelander (the programmer who created the original kernals for NURBS, ACIS, and ParaSolids), I understand how poorly many things have been implemented and how often the terminology used by such systems is just plain wrong! Unfortunately, John Walker established the norm back when he created Autodesk. He insisted that none of the programmers or testers have any experience in engineering drafting -- and that is still the norm today! Thus it is that every major CAD system on the market today calls what traditionally was known as transforms by the term loft (there being no truelofting operand in any of the <$30,000/seat CAD products on the market today). Yeah, it is a real PITA.

However, having said all that, just think what the market for CAD products would look like without Alibre? There are really no other low-cost CAD systems that have the grandfathered licenses that allow it to work towards competing with the high-cost systems. (Here in the U.S. it costs a non-grandfathered (i.e. something on the market since prior to 1997) CAD company more than $150,000/year merely to get the testing done to qualify under ISO-10303 (aka STEP).) TurboCAD, just about the only other program with this kind of history has changed hands so many times that I doubt all their code exists in one place anymore (this being an opinion and not an actual fact -- but I was quite aware of what happened to TurboCAD when they were controlled by IMSI). If David's assertion is correct that you do not have a currently active for support license for Alibre, then you need to ask yourself if you would be providing support to a non-paying customer? Without ongoing (positive) cash-flow nobody stays in business, right? If you are not supporting the low-cost entry into the competition, you choices are rapidly going to devolve to paying the premium, right?

First a bit of History. I was in with Alibre from the start when they announced a free version called Xcad and then renamed it Alibre Express and gave away 10,000 licenses. A lot of people were not pleased over this and accused them of a bait and switch because they didn't get the full version, only express ??

A lot were on about taking a class action out over the bait and switch routine but I stood up for Alibre and said "Fine you will get back exactly what you have put in - nothing. " Their CEO at the time Greg [ name escapes me ] emailed me and thanked me for sticking up to them and as a gesture of goodwill gave me a few extra's on the free license.

Later on when Express was dropped and PE came out I paid the upgrade and these features were carried on.

I must admit I never got round to using the program other than a few tutorials, recently I came to re-install V11.2 and got into a loop saying the computer name and site key were invalid and couldn't get out this loop.Got a print out of license numbers but no way to enter anything as the program wouldn't run, just this loop.

Emailed support in the US where I bought it from and they sent me a new license number which was the same as one I already had. Emailed them back and sent screen shots of the loop screens and just got ignored which pissed me off.

Later today I was contacted by the UK reseller, Mintronics who now informs me that v11.2 will not run on W7.

Nowhere on the install screen does it say it will not run on W7.

So state of play is I can pay to upgrade to V2012 and my extra features will still carry on and in all fairness to Mintronics they have been very helpful which is more than I can say over Alibre, TX.

Because this original post was posted on 3 forums and this same reply is going to all three i have been given a few leads in the price bracket I was looking.

I don't need this for business, it's purely a hobby concept it's needed for hence not wanting to outlay for full commercial software.

Cons for staying with Alibre is the large user base, local support if bought in the UK and extra features.Against is this reliance on being internet based, something that is making me look elsewhere.

Over the next couple of weeks I propose to look at Viacad, ZW3D, Varicad and then make a decision.

In fairness to Alibre, Win7 didn't exist when version 11.2 was released! So hard to see how it could give warnings about an OS it isn't aware of.

v2011 (aka 13.0) was the first version of Alibre to be Win7 compliant. We are now on v2012 (aka v14.0), released in October.

Having seen your earlier post here, I had a chat with John Minto at Mintonics, hence the call you received today. One option still open to you is to install your existing v11.2 on an old PC (or perhaps it might work in XP compatibility mode, though I don't guarantee that).

As Lew mentions, you'd probably find out things like if XP compatibility mode is worth trying from the Alibre user forum.

Granted V11.2 wasn't out when W7 was released but W7 has been released for ages BEFORE Alibre updated the web pages and online registration.

Alibre TX was very quick at replying and sending me a new licence key which was exactly the same as the one issued 2 years previously but without being able to start the program the key wasn't much use.They could have told me in the email that it wasn't compatible with W7 instead of sending an out of date key.

David,I might be coming across as very negative and with some aspects I am.

One one hand the new Alibre website and method of checking licences is new, far newer than W7 release date but there is nothing to give a clue that V11.2 will not run on W7.After contacting Alibre, TX and saying I was upgrading to W7 I was just given one of my old keys. However the new system of registration will not let you go any further that go round in a loop if you don't have the correct numbers [ which W7 will not generate ]

On the other hand today John Minto from Mintronics contacted me via your input and couldn't have explained things better where I stand. 10 out of 10 for John's effort which if Alibre, TX had done their job would not have been necessary.

I am currently evaluating some of the links I have been given. The problem I am having is one I come across a lot, people who know the software, sellers and writers know it that well they assume everyone else does.Classic example tonight when doing a tutorial is that the help / tutorial file isn't for the current version of the software and icons in the tutorial don't match or worse are missing from the program and a complete beginner has no idea where they are.One demo has been deleted already for that reason.

I have two more to look at but the local support from Mintronics is looking more interesting every minute

It doesn't take long after moving to a new version that you start to forget how things worked in the earlier version (which some people still use) - that does make support a bit tricky but we try. Tutorials don't necessarily get updated with each version, so may not fully reflect the current interface. Finally, how to do a particular task is so obvious to the guy that wrote the software that his description in the help file is so minimal as to be of no use at all to a newcomer.

OK update.Finished up staying with Alibre which is now called Geomagic after being bought out.Bought all the training video's but need to train myself on time management and actually get round to learning it. My fault, no one elses.

I did buy Viacad as the demo ran out but when I got into it I wasn't impressed on how it works.V8 isn't parametric so any changes won't update but biggest cruncher for me was one license, if I want it on the laptop, another full price upgrade.

OK update.Finished up staying with Alibre which is now called Geomagic after being bought out.Bought all the training video's but need to train myself on time management and actually get round to learning it. My fault, no one elses.

I did buy Viacad as the demo ran out but when I got into it I wasn't impressed on how it works.V8 isn't parametric so any changes won't update but biggest cruncher for me was one license, if I want it on the laptop, another full price upgrade.

Certainly not a modern way of working.

John,

When I bought my copy of ViaCAD I asked Cadsoft: "One more question - will I be able to load it on my desktop and onto my laptop?" to which they replied: "Yes, but you will need to register again, each authorisation code is specific per computer."

So, I have it on my desktop and laptop. (Maybe even on my Mach3 PC.)

Although far from perfect it was very cheap by CAD standards. I some times find it easier to draw the 2d geometry in Autocad then paste it into ViaCAD to turn it into a 3D model.

Having said all that I've still not got any decent 3D CAM software to go with it and will probably stick with 2.5D because of the amount of time true 3D machining takes.

Having said all that I've still not got any decent 3D CAM software to go with it and will probably stick with 2.5D because of the amount of time true 3D machining takes.

I can highly recommend CamBam for 3D stuff. So long as your CAD program exports in one of CamBam's supported formats (I had to use STL). There's good support through the forums, the program itself is pretty capable (I just produced a CNC'd BMW sump, which required 8 programs (4 roughing, 4 finishing), and other than a couple of niggles early on - which turned out to be problems with the wetware - CamBam did just great. OK, the finishing programs were 18-hour monsters, and used almost a full tank of slideway oil each; I could probably have saved a bucket full of time by using a flat endmill rather than the ball-nosed one and got a smoother finish to boot, but what I've got is perfect for the task & looks great.

Logged

Cheers!Ade.--Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...Skype: adev73

Finished up staying with Alibre which is now called Geomagic after being bought out...

As John mentioned Alibre Design has been 're-branded' as Geomagic Design, and Geomagic Design Elements. To confuse things even further, the 'hobby' product Alibre PE is now Cubify Design - not to be confused with Cubify Invent (which is actually based on the same code, but is very restricted). All these products are based on a common core, with feature availability controlled by licence key.

In terms of sales value Geomagic is a bigger brand than Alibre (hence the name change).

Having said all that I've still not got any decent 3D CAM software to go with it and will probably stick with 2.5D because of the amount of time true 3D machining takes.

I can highly recommend CamBam for 3D stuff.

Hi Ade,

I tried CamBam some time ago and uninstalled it. I can't remember why! I should have made some notes at the time.

I've just installed it again and it knows that I have used it before because it told me I had 37 (out of 40) evaluation sessions left.

I imported my STL file and the first problem I had was that I needed to swap X & Z axes over. I couldn't get my head round doing it in CamBam so went back to ViaCad and did it in that.

I tried generating some toolpaths and first off couldn't find the tool libraries to create a 3.5mm ball ended cutter. I did it in the properties section but thought there would be a library somewhere. [Edit - Just found it!]

I've now generated a waterline roughing toolpath but I can't find a way of looking at it properly as I can't find a way of getting a 3D view. I guess there must be some way (?) but it doesn't seem to be in the View menu which I would have expected. [Another Edit - I should have thought to look in the System Configuration menu where it tells me it's ALT + L mouse button!]

I had a trial version of MeshCam which was very intuitive - I produced working code without looking at (of for) a help file. Unfortunately, between me downloading the trial and deciding I should buy it the price more than doubled overnight - bugger.

I think I probably ditched CamBam last time because I struggled so much with it. I'll spend a few more hours on it but, up to now, I'm not too enamoured. Looking at some examples of work done with CamBam I guess it will do everything I want if only I have the patience.

I do indeed recognise the Parslow parts! Just curious, is it the correct cycloidal tooth form or an approximation of the form?

Chris,

The cycloidal form is based on the British Standard but isn't critical - particularly for the model which will never be used for machining - it was just an exercise.

The only real 3d machining I've done was for the loco wheel and I've still only done it in MDF because it would take forever in steel or CI. My current thoughts are that I'll turn the profile of the wheel (when the CNC lathe is working) and then cut out the spokes on the CNC mill. The spokes will then have sharp corners rather than fillets but I'd then be looking at perhaps an hour per wheel instead of 16 hours!

For £70 you can`t complain at all getting 3d models like that - infact, you are tempting me to purchase as an early birthday present to myself :-)

You can get it even cheaper than that, they periodically offer discounts. I bought it for 30% off, just Google "Viacad coupon code" to find the discounts.

However I have never had much joy with the program. Others can and do do useful work with it (as per Phil's examples above), but the light has never come on for me. I find that the documentation is not at all helpful, and the tutorials supplied with the package are so trivial that they don't really aid one's understanding.

I periodically load the program up in a burst of enthusiasm, intent to come to terms with it I once more work through the tutorials, but always with the same result, I seem incapable of making any further progress, so just another wasted evening ending in frustration.

Another alternative would be FreeCAD http://www.freecadweb.org/ an open source parametric 3D modeller, which as its name implies is completely free.Clive

Yes I've been using Inventor professional for my business for years. It is a great piece of software. It is ridiculously expensive, but I have found that once you get to grips with it (or any similar program such as Solidworks) it is much more productive than 2D CAD for the sort of work I use it for.

I think many people think that Inventor is simply a re-packaged version of Autocad. It isn't, it has pretty much nothing in common with Autocad (although they have been changing the Autocad tool bar to more closely reflect the Inventor toolbar), and being proficient with Autocad won't really help learning to use Inventor.

My son is a University student and uses the free educational version to create part drawings for his 3D printer.

Hi ChrisAfter being on the hunt for a 3d cad package for years, I`ve just realised that being an "educator" I am entitled to the student free inventor. I`m really enjoying it! It is apparently identical to the full pro version but with a small student watermark in the bottom of your drawings. It is going to take a fair bit of studying!Chris

My brother-in-law has used autocad for years and recently moved jobs where they are training him on inventor. He went on 2 days training for inventor literally this week just gone and he showed me some of the drawings he has done and I`m pretty amazed. He has a much better understanding than me of using cad software in general but I`m hoping to learn some tips and tricks from him! I've been using youtube as you say and will be sticking at it!

The basic methods used in 3D CAD are the same across most Solids modellers (surface modellers work a bit differently). The point is that whilst videos and tutorials for Inventor will be best for the detail of using the software, tutorials/videos for SolidWorks, ProE, Geomagic, etc. will also be useful for giving ideas of how to approach the modelling of things.

Keep your sketch profiles as simple as possible - you will need more 3D features, but subsequent changes will be a lot easier.

Remember there are usually several different modelling approaches to any problem, don't think that there is a single 'right way'.

User forums can be very helpful.

If you are lucky you might find a free training course through a local University or similar - these are usually tied to some sort of scheme to create/safeguard jobs by getting technology/skills into industry,