Would it be too snarky of an answer to say that the preferrable tracking force of a Stanton 500 is preferrably 2-4 kilograms?

Sorry, I bought one as a backup once upon a time, and it managed to achieve a ~40hz tonearm resonance on my SL-1200. If low compliance is how DJ cartridges achieve "slammin' bass" then I am kinda scared. Not as scared as using a ceramic cart though.

If you wanted a serious answer, IIRC, I'd probably track it at 3g by default, unless it started jumping grooves.

Before I say too much more, I should disclose that Stanton sent me this turntable free so that I could review it. I paid for the previous four turntables I reviewed out of my pocket.

I don't plan on that fact to affect my opinion of it and I expect you all call me on it if you believe that to be the case.

QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 8 2010, 13:50)

I bought one as a backup once upon a time, and it managed to achieve a ~40hz tonearm resonance on my SL-1200. If low compliance is how DJ cartridges achieve "slammin' bass" then I am kinda scared. Not as scared as using a ceramic cart though.

The proof will be in the listening/analysis.

The turntable is clearly better constructed than the $100 turntables I've been testing. But, as I advise readers in my guide, it is a DJ turntable, which is a musical instrument first and foremost.

QUOTE (Axon @ Jul 8 2010, 13:50)

If you wanted a serious answer, IIRC, I'd probably track it at 3g by default, unless it started jumping grooves.

Thanks, that's two votes for 3g and one for 5g.

Since you replied, do you mind showing your work a bit?

In particular, is your general tracking force philosophy to use as little as you can get away with or, like I hear most often, to set the tracking for at or near the top of the range to avoid mistracking at all costs?

I posed this question to Stanton's tech support as well. The first answer I got was "2 - 5 grams."

After reiterating that I'm asking for a specific VTF recommendation suitable for simple vinyl archiving, he said they don't have a standard answer. He then went on to say I could probably get away with 1.5 grams if I'm worried about "possible hard s's," which I assume means "scratches."

I've got hi-fi cartridges on mine now but when I had Stantons I seem to remember leaving them on the minimum for playing LPs but dialling it up if I was mixing. Depending on how drunk/nervous I was at the time.

QUOTE

Speaking as a DJ, most of them wouldn't know audio quality if it jumped up and bit them in the arse.

Poor DJs. Even lower in the musical hierarchy than drummers.

Mr. C spent some of the money he made with Shamen on a night club called The End. Finest sound system I ever heard.

Don't you have a test record? If not I'd set it at around 3 grams and play something with sudden loud peaks. That should make it easier to spot any mistracking. Then increase if necessary. Being a spherical stylus I wouldn't go below 3 grams. I'm not saying that out of any special knowledge just that the Shure cartridge in the M75 series that had a spherical stylus had a recommended tracking weight of 3 grams so I doubt that the Stanton would be able to do any better

Don't you have a test record? If not I'd set it at around 3 grams and play something with sudden loud peaks.

Good basic advice - try some demaning tracks from a test record, and then maybe add a half a gram for some safety margin.

QUOTE

Being a spherical stylus I wouldn't go below 3 grams.

I don't know about that. Back in the day when sperical styli were all we had, tracking under 2 grams was pretty common. Trackability is about the dynamics of the cartrdige which are dominated by other parts of the stylus assembly than the diamond tip. Elliptical stylii tend to have smaller contact areas and so they need lighter tracking for equal levels of record wear.

QUOTE

I'm not saying that out of any special knowledge just that the Shure cartridge in the M75 series that had a spherical stylus had a recommended tracking weight of 3 grams so I doubt that the Stanton would be able to do any better

IME Shure has been the king of tracking in any part of the cartrdige market.

Aren't those tracks for setting bias? I have HFN001 and the tracking tests are all on side 2 and are at +15dB. Still, I don't see why you couldn't use the test tracks you're referring to for ascertaining a suitable tracking weight. I'd start with the lowest level cut and with a weight at the high end, say 4 grams. Reason being that once you've caused mistracking you've damaged the record so it's best to start with something that should be safe and go from there. My approach would be :1) Use the +12dB track at 4 grams2). If that's OK try the +14dB track at 4 grams.3) If that's OK try the +16dB track at 4 grams4) If that's OK repeat the tests at 3.5 gramsand so on. If at any stage you get mistracking add .5 grams and start again from that point. Once I was happy I'd double check by using the tracks on side 2 (assuming HFN002 is the same as HFN001)

I actually still use HFS75 for this purpose. You might be interested to know that it's sleeve notes say that +14dB "represents a typical hi-fi standard, achieved within the range of most high quality cartridges". So, I wouldn't worry too much if +16dB proved unachievable

Aren't those tracks for setting bias? I have HFN001 and the tracking tests are all on side 2 and are at +15dB.

Gee, using the tracks designed for the task at hand makes a little too much sense.

QUOTE (botface @ Jul 9 2010, 11:09)

I'd start with...a weight at the high end, say 4 grams. Reason being that once you've caused mistracking you've damaged the record so it's best to start with something that should be safe and go from there.

I can hear mistracking in the right channel of the 4gram sample and both channels of 2.5 gram sample. It could well be that the right channel has been damaged by the mistracking and hence the difference in the waveform. It could also be why right channel output is lower.

I'd suggest you double-check that the cartridge is central in the headshell and then double-check the bias setting as either of these could be causing the right channel mistracking.

Edit : An afterthought. Maybe the test record was already damaged before you ran these tests. In which case you'll never get a proper result. Although if it was new that seems unlikely. Can you try again with one of the other tracks?

If you can hear mistracking then clearly I don't know how to identify the phenomena.

If you isolate the left channel and play it back you will hear a nice clear tone. If you isolate the right channel you will hear a sound at the same pitch as the left channel but instead of a pure tone it's accompanied by a sort of "buzz". That's the mistracking.

Out of curiosity I recorded the "torture track" from my copy of HFS75 as I know it's been damaged by mistracking in the past. The waveform looks very similar to your sample (sorry I haven't found out how to post images otherwise I'd attach a screenshot). I suspect that the angled tops of the wave on the right channel, compared to the nicely rounded tops on the left channel are the signs of mistracking as that's what my HFS75 track looks like. Hopefully someone with specific knowledge here can confirm that. Then again it may be that the record is simply faulty as you say.

You're absolutely right that the sample from the older copy of HFN002 is not showing any audible signs of mistracking. Also you can see that the shape of the waveform is identical in both channels.

If you isolate the left channel and play it back you will hear a nice clear tone. If you isolate the right channel you will hear a sound at the same pitch as the left channel but instead of a pure tone it's accompanied by a sort of "buzz". That's the mistracking.

Yes, now that I'm listening to the old copy and new copy side-by-side, I do hear the difference.

I am going to try exchanging the new copy. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire batch is like this, though. I'll report back.

QUOTE (botface @ Jul 13 2010, 01:00)

You're absolutely right that the sample from the older copy of HFN002 is not showing any audible signs of mistracking. Also you can see that the shape of the waveform is identical in both channels.

I think I'll just use my old copy to determine the proper VTF then. A couple lousy ceramic cartridges may have passed through its grooves before but it seems to be holding up.

QUOTE (2Bdecided @ Jul 13 2010, 06:04)

QUOTE (Knowzy @ Jul 12 2010, 22:47)

I would expect to see this distinctly in the waveform. I don't.

You do! Every flat top sine wave you've shown is the needle leaving the groove wall. If it was still touching it, you'd get a proper smooth sine wave.

Although I do believe we're seeing a defect in the LP, it appears that you're saying that this is a good way of identifying mistracking.

The Long VersionAssuming my new copy of HFN002 was defective, I began looking for the right tracking force using my original copy of HFN002.

Before I did this, I re-balanced the tone arm. It was still floating but was riding a bit above the arm rest. I adjusted it no more than 1/10 gram and it was now floating just below the rest.

I commenced sampling at 4 grams. Nice and smooth, just as it was two days earlier.

When I got down to 3 grams, I noticed bumpy flat-tops on top of the sine wave in the right channel. They looked almost identical to the ones I saw on my second copy of HFN002.

At this point I'm wondering if the original HFN was cut a bit hotter. Maybe I just needed more force on the new HFN.

I tried new new HFN at 5 grams. Nice and smooth.

I tried it at 4.5 grams. Nice and smooth.

Then I tried it at 4 grams. Two days ago, this was causing the flat-tops shown in the previous posts. Today, nice and smooth.

I'm baffled. The re-balancing is the only thing I can think of that would remotely have an effect. But remember, I got the nice and smooth wave from my original HFN two days ago, before the re-balancing.

I tried 3.5 grams. Still nice as smooth, as it was on the original HFN.

I tried 3 grams. Back to flat-tops.

3.25 grams- somewhere in between.

Following Arnold's advice, I took the last good sample, 3.5 and added .5 to arrive at 4 grams.

I still don't know why I got such different results today. Delicate mechanical equipment can be so unpredictable!

The Right QuestionFinal note in an already long post: I realized I shouldn't have asked, "What tracking force should I use?" The right question was, "How do I find the right tracking force?"

Then I tried it at 4 grams. Two days ago, this was causing the flat-tops shown in the previous posts. Today, nice and smooth.

I'm baffled. The re-balancing is the only thing I can think of that would remotely have an effect. But remember, I got the nice and smooth wave from my original HFN two days ago, before the re-balancing.

This is a long thread that I'm not really able to properly contribute to, but I will make the point that environmental factors such as temperature and humidity can affect the trackability of pickup cartridges. If the day when the tracking was better was a warmer day, that could explain the difference.

I'm now using 5 grams of tracking force (the top end of the manufacturer's range) and it's still not enough.

Here's how I got there.

After rebalancing, I tried the outermost trackability track. Even at 5 grams, there were a few points of audible mistracking.

The innermost track was much worse- constant audible mistracking throughout.

Hear for yourself: The start of the FLAC is the outermost track and the end is the innermost track.

At +15dB, these tracks seem to be louder than you would typically encounter playing music records.

QUOTE ("botface")

I actually still use HFS75 for this purpose. You might be interested to know that its sleeve notes say that +14dB "represents a typical hi-fi standard, achieved within the range of most high quality cartridges". So, I wouldn't worry too much if +16dB proved unachievable.

Side A has a +14dB version of this track near the end of the record that plays without audible mistracking.

At the center of the record, the Stanton could handle +15db at 4 grams.

Nonetheless, I'm a bit let down that I couldn't get a smooth play on the inside and the outside of the record no matter how much tracking force I used.

What you're describing can often be the result of incorrect bias. Is the mistracking always in both channels or just one? If it's just one channel or sometimes both and sometimes just one it points to a bias problem - especially as you don't seem to have any trouble tracking the test in the centre of the record.