2.) It seems that the family that killed was very opiniated when it came to disgreements. Another article on this pro-Jihad ideal site for muslims called Jihadwacth.org site. The people who knew them were trying to bash them even after their grizzly deathshttp://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004660.php

JERSEY CITY, N.J. - The dirty looks and shouted slurs started in 1993 after Muslims living here helped plan the bombing that damaged the World Trade Center just across the Hudson River. They intensified after Sept. 11, 2001, when Muslim hijackers destroyed the twin towers.

Now a third wave of anti-Muslim sentiment is washing over New Jersey's second-largest city, sparked this time by reports that the murders of an Egyptian Christian man, his wife and two young daughters might have been carried out by Muslims angered by messages the man posted in an Internet chat room.

The strife is particularly distressing in light of efforts the area's Muslim community made to reach out to other faiths and strengthen ties after the 9/11 attacks. Imams visited churches and synagogues. Joint prayer breakfasts and open houses were held. Muslim merchants visited the homes of their Christian and Jewish counterparts, and strongly denounced the attacks.

"We've been working for three years on getting Christians together with Muslims," said Mohamed Younes, president of the American Muslim Union. "Now much of that progress is gone. It is definitely going to be set back."

The bodies of Hossam Armanious, a 47-year-old Coptic Christian, his 37-year-old wife, Amal Garas, and their daughters, Sylvia, 15, and Monica, 8, were discovered Jan. 14 in the family's home. They had been bound and gagged, and each was stabbed repeatedly in the neck and head. No arrests have been made.

Although prosecutors have stressed that robbery remains a possible motive in the case, many in this city's sizable Egyptian population believe the killings were religiously motivated.

That feeling is all too familiar for people like Ahmed Shedeed, director of the Islamic Center of Jersey City.

"We Muslims living in America are getting sick of this crap," he said. "Why should we have to apologize for or make a defense of something we had nothing to do with? There is no proof at all that Muslims had anything to do with this, yet we are taking the blame again. Is Islam on trial, or is a killer on trial?"

After the killings, Muslims tried anew to mend fences, but the results were mixed, at best. Several attended the family's funeral, but a New York cleric was escorted out of the church hall as a precaution after a heckler shouted at him. Mourners engaged in several scuffles before and after the funeral, including one in which about 35 people pushed, shoved and traded punches in the street while others yelled anti-Islam slogans.

A few days later, Muslim leaders called a news conference to try to calm religious tensions, but Coptic leaders who were invited did not attend, citing a religious holiday, the Feast of the Epiphany celebrating Jesus' baptism. A similar interfaith event planned for this Sunday, which had been in the works for months, was postponed because of the snowstorm heading for the area.

The killings have spread fear among Coptic Christians far beyond Jersey City. Relatives of the Armanious family in Egypt blamed the killings on violence and weak interpersonal relationships in American society. Members of the St. Abraam's Coptic Orthodox Church in Woodbury, N.Y., said the killings appeared to be "a religiously motivated hate crime against Coptic Christians."

"A lot of families are feeling the fear and terror that comes along with something like this," said Maged Riad, a church member. "They got them in their home in the middle of the night. People want to know they can be safe in their own homes."

Many Coptics complain of discrimination in Egypt, where violence between the two communities has flared sporadically in recent years. Coptic Christians comprise less than 6 percent of Egypt's population. The church is part of the family of the Oriental Orthodox Churches of Syria, Ethiopia and Armenia. Orthodox Christians and Roman Catholics split in 1054 over the authority of the pope.

At St. George & St. Shenouda Coptic Orthodox Church in Jersey City, where the Armanious family was active, the Rev. David Bebawy urged restraint and said he was troubled by the heated rhetoric that followed the slayings.

"We are waiting to see what the result of the investigation is," he said. "It's too early to blame anyone."

Suzanne Loutfy, a Muslim leader of the Egyptian-American Group, asked people not to blame Islam if the killers are found to be Muslim.

"People are so willing to condemn an entire religion," she said. "That's what the big problem is. People commit crimes; religions don't. I hope we can be intelligent enough to separate those two."

2.) It seems that the family that killed was very opiniated when it came to disgreements. Another article on this pro-Jihad ideal site for muslims called Jihadwacth.org site. The people who knew them were trying to bash them even after their grizzly deathshttp://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/004660.php

Alex,

Jihad Watch is the website of PERSONAL DATA REMOVED BY ADMINISTRATOR AT REQUEST OF JIHADWATCH.ORG FOR PERSONAL SAFETY REASONS. GIVEN THE RECENT EVENTS IN NJ I WAS INCLINED TO HONOR THIS REQUEST--ANASTASIOS. I'm baffled as to where you got the idea that it is a pro-Jihad site; it is not and, in fact, is just the opposite.

Many years,

Neil

« Last Edit: January 23, 2005, 04:27:42 PM by Anastasios »

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"Not only is it unnecessary to adopt the customs of the Latin Rite to manifest one's Catholicism, it is an offense against the unity of the Church."

May God comfort the relatives of the family and the community, receive the souls of the departed, and help the police to catch the guilty parties.

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Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox. It is, by definition, heterodox. Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

It seems that the persecuter on this case and the local authorities have adopted the politically correct, but not truthful, approach to appease certain groups, excluding them from being suspect. I hope it is just some bluffing. , If true, this ostrich-like behavior will come and bite back, when it is too late.

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In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

What's going on in NJ? Can anyone please enlighten us? The MSM seems to be silent to talk about such cases. I don't believe this is happenning in the US of A.

Why not? Just a year ago a Muslim man murdered his wife, wrote a fake letter making it look like an "Islamophobic" hate crime the media reported it all - except that it was the husband that did it and it wasn't actually a hate crime.

I remember that case, Jason. Whenever anyone talks about "Islamophobia", I feel compelled to mention that a phobia is generally understood to be a fear that is irrational, and as cases like these show us that there is absolutely nothing irrational about fearing Islam, Islamophobia does not exist. It's the most popular non-entity around, unfortunately.

When will we hear about Christianophobia/Coptophobia on the part of the killers? (I'd actually watch the news of any of them would come out and say it...but that will never happen, of course, because ooooh, the poor Muslims are feeling bad and angry about being blamed! You know who's really feeling bad? The families of the people who are murdered for being Christian.)

What's going on in NJ? Can anyone please enlighten us? The MSM seems to be silent to talk about such cases. I don't believe this is happenning in the US of A.

Memory eternal! Lord have mercy on their families!

There is a growing Islamic ethnic enclave in New Jersey. I don't know if it's the same people, but it used to be Al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Arabic: ألجماعه الاسلاميه ). There are different styles of ritual killing among the groups. When bin Laden was killed, a Turkish cultural center in that area flew the US flag upside down and below the Turkish flag, which against the United States flag code. Someone driving by noticed it and reported it, and they had to be asked to correct it. They acted like they couldn't imagine how that happened. Eventually, as the numbers grow, there will likely be more and more problems just like everywhere else.

Islamophobia is one those recently coined and empty social constructs whose real purpose appears to be a device for deflecting any valid criticism of or inquiry into issues of concern that some may have.

There are real issues among Moslem populations in various countries across the globe with attacks by jihadist groups on Christians, and by Sunni groups on Shia communities as happened yesterday when a bomb was exploded at a bazaar in a Hazara community in Pakistan.

Quite were Orientalist romantics ever got the notion that Islam was a tolerant and peaceful religion beats the hell out of me.

Quite were Orientalist romantics ever got the notion that Islam was a tolerant and peaceful religion beats the hell out of me.

Having known a few, its usually 1) Exposure to universalist strains of Sufism that think they are mainstream in Islam 2) Their physical attraction.

In my experience, 2 turns out really bad because it means they're involved with a Muslim guy, and its always turned out that they were using them as 'pre-marriage sex practice,' they secretly despised them as faithless sleazy foreigners and had no intention of ever taking it seriously.

It's very sad! They drive out our brothers and sisters from Egypt, they followe them wherever they go, they murder them. It's a disgrace that this is happening in the US where 0.8% of the population is followers of the Islamic cult. Imagine the attention it could get if this gruesome act took place somwhere in Gaza!

„Again, if Yusuf Ibrahim turns out to be Muslim, so be it. But we don’t know that, and whether or not he is, I can’t shed a single tear for Copts. They made their bed in Egypt by allying with Muslims to kill, rape, and drive out the Jews from Egypt. Now, it’s coming back to bite them in the ass. And that doesn’t sadden or anger me one bit. When Muslims kill American Christians–the ones who didn’t come from Egypt and didn’t lead pogroms against the Jews of Egypt while historically butt-snorkeling Egypt’s Muslims, that’s when I care.Other than that, it’s just same ol’, same ol’ but for the setting on American soil. That’s the way of the Arab world (even the Coptic Arab world). And now it’s part of our world. That’s the tragedy here. Not the Copts.“

**** UPDATE #3: Just got off the phone with Lt. Stephen Jones of the New Jersey State Police Office of Public Information, who told me that the two victims were “acquaintances” of Ibrahim, which is why they were in the car together. He said the Mercedes was an old car and will get back to me on the year. He would not tell me much more.

It's probably best not to publicize the nonsensical rantings of a sad, fringe lunatic, Balthasar. What some no-name idiot on the internet thinks about Copts does not really have anything to do with this murder case.

I agree, to some extent, with your comments. I also don't like the indifferent response of the woman on the subject, but this is a wide-spread thought in the West to talk about the vast majority of Mideastern Christians being anti-Semites. Aren't they? So, it's very important to discuss openly about it. Please read this recent Q & A with Dr. Ashraf Ramelah, founder of voice of the Copts:

Egyptian Christians: Where can they turn to?

4. How do Egypt's Coptic Christians view Israel?

Islamic bigotry and prejudice against Jews in Egypt predates the Jewish State of Israel. Islam’s discriminatory teachings have dominated Egypt’s culture for centuries and have been passed down through generations, infecting Muslims and Christians alike. Public school textbooks saturate Muslim and non-Muslim children in their formative years with messages of hate toward Israel and Jews. Today Christian Copts are awash in the culture of Islam like fish in water and many grossly err in relation to Christ’s teachings on the issue of Jews and Coptic biblical history and heritage.

Bombarded daily with Egypt’s state regulated media dominated by biased Islamic viewpoints, forced to listen to loud speakers blasting Friday prayers from mosques preaching hatred of Jews and Christians, the Coptic Christians and their clergy are an indoctrinated population.

This is a sad reality that is terribly inexcusable especially as Coptic religious leaders have conceded this point to Muslims in order to appease them and perhaps make Coptic life less dangerous which has been miserably unsuccessful. Regarding the State of Israel, Copts love the holy land and the Christian sites located there yet, at the same time, view with skepticism the Jewish population.