8crown wrote:Hi everyone with experience with High School American Lit/History,Is the same handbook from WHL used with writing assignments relative to their reading? ThanksSylvia

My daughter is currently using this program [US1] as an 11th grader. The writing assignments in response to the literature are a wonderful way of reinforcing what is being learned in the Biblical worldview course, Thinking Like a Christian. We are reading literature from this time period and then writing an analysis of the author's worldview in light of a Biblical worldview. Each writing assignment is tied to one of the specific disciplines studied in Thinking Like a Christian: theology, philosophy, biology, psychology, ethics, sociology, law, politics, economics, and history. It has been sobering to see how much America moved away from a Biblical worldview during this time period. The literature and writing assignments are a natural way for the student to see this tend for themselves. So far, US History to 1877 has been a great experience for my daughter.

deltagal wrote:I've looked over the sample and details on line for the US History to 1877 but I'm not seeing any writing instruction. Is there any? If so, could you elaborate? Thank you.

After finishing AHL and now WHL (wahoo! last assignment done!), I can't imagine any further writing instruction to cover for academic writing at this point. (that assumes a student who isn't trying to get electives in English)

Writing instruction was covered in those other years, now it's time to do more of the same and develop it. I know we'll keep Writer's Inc out for reference for formatting. Lots of instruction in that book. It was covered.and in 12th grade year, there's a different booklet for research papers.. but it's really more of the same instructions.I haven't looked through the CLEP book on English... maybe there is a touch more in the CLEP College Composition book?

I think in analogies with my work in fitness industry... at some point in my training, I've learned the moves... time to do the routines, not the steps.

not sure that's what you wanted to hear.. got any thoughts/thinking points/reaction?

Hi Florence,I'll chime in but I've just got the box here and won't use it until fall, so hopefully more knowledgeable folks will be online soon!

I think maybe I can explain the sample lessons a little more fully, and see if that helps. So the sample looks like it's weeks 10-11. Here's what the Am. Lit. credit looks like those weeks.

1. Of course you can see the daily grammar review. I think the hope is that by high school, grammar lessons directly impact correct writing...

2. Day one also says, "American Literature Supplement, Lesson 8: Part 2 – Daniel Boone." The Am. Lit. Supplement is an adaptation of Stobaugh materials. If you've used AHL, it's similar to that guide, which was an adaptation of Smarr materials. So on this day, you are reading a selection in the Am. Lit. Supplement that is dated 1784 "as told by Daniel Boone." It is a lengthy passage, so that is all you're doing that day (besides grammar).

3. Day two says, "Lesson 8: Part 3 – Thanksgiving Proclamation, Assignment B." You read a selection that's a proclamation written by George Washington, and then the proclamation by Abe Lincoln that actually established the Thanksgiving holiday. The writing assignment is for 2+ paragraphs discussing these presidents' acknowledgement of God and giving examples from both speeches. Giving examples is an important writing skill

4. Day three says, "Lesson 8: Part 4 – Washington’s Farewell Address (finish tomorrow), Assignment C." Students will read *about* the address, then read Assignment C which asks the student to slowly go through the speech and summarize/discuss the meaning of each phrase before continuing. Then the student starts reading the actual speech and continues the next day (again, this is lengthy).

5. Week 11, day one, says, "Lesson 9: Part 1 – Annotation, Annotation Assignment, Martin Luther – Before the Diet of Worms (see notes)." The first thing the student will do is go to lesson 9 in the ALS (Am. Lit. Supplement) and read "Part 1- Annotation." This is an excerpt from How to Mark a Book, by Mortimer Adler, a 2-page spread in small type so like a full article, with bulleted lists at the end. Next, for the "Annotation Assignment," the student will refer to the notes in the main US1 manual, which tell him that there is a sheet in the appendix (the US1 manual has a large appendix of sheets). These sheets have the entire speech that Martin Luther gave, double spaced with plenty of room for annotation. The notes also say to read the speech once, and then read it again slowly while annotating. (Annotating is an excellent reading skill, which can help with SAT/ACT testing as well as college reading. But it is also helpful in the research that comes before writing.)

6. Day two says, "The Institutes of the Christian Religion (see notes)." Again, there is a double-spaced copy in the appendix for annotating.

7. Day three says, "Lesson 9: Part 2–Westminster Shorter Catechism (Q 1-81)." So it's back to the ALS and reading lesson 9 part 2. This is basically just reading half of the text mentioned, which is from 1674 and had 107 catechism questions and 107 answers, so today the student is reading the first 81 of those Q&As, and tomorrow the student is reading the remainder.

8. Looking ahead, the next things covered in the ALS are the New England Primer (1687 public school text) with many pages reproduced, and then the story from the Civil War period, Man Without a Country, which has quite a few explanatory notes at the end. However, it looks like those won't be studied for several weeks, while the focus goes back to literature (Of Plymouth Plantation with personal responses, and then Scarlett Letter with Progeny Press guide).

Hope that helps. I'm not sure that an 11th grader is given the kinds of "writing lessons" that students had in earlier grades, but is learning how to produce more in-depth commentary within his writing? I see Crystal posted -- what Crystal said Julie

standing by my other post and reason.. Writer's Inc covered the instructions. keep it. use it as reference per the notes in the intro

I'm flipping through and noticed in some instances (well ok.. I found one so far and starting typing) there are some things that may not have been covered in Writer's Inc that will be needed for an assignment. Then, there are notes in the daily section to help with that specific assignment. This is the case with "speech" preparation with TLAC. So, some general instructions are given that make the outline and specifics in that style of that project for week 4 . But it assumes student has knowledge from Writer's Inc on how to carry out those instructions. So it's not going to repeat lessons on how to write an intro/conclusion and transitions. If student needs reminders, check Writer's Inc. or even the composition book in AHL

so.. if you don't have a copy of writer's inc.. you might want to get that.

have you thought about 10th grade - do world geography and writing program, and schedule reading Bible in a year? I'm not trying to say "don't do MFW". .. I'm just thinking out loud in case something to help with gap semester/year.... ignore me as needed...ignore me.. ignore...me... I make it too hard at times..

and yes... the college composition study guide.. wow.. oh man.. wow.. Definitely waiting until end of 11th grade to do that.. someone get me a drink to calm me down! warm chocolate milk.. it's going to be ok...

ilovemy4kids wrote:For a student in High School who has had little formal grammar instruction (he completed All-in-One English with My Father's World a few years ago), I am considering the following:

Jensen's GrammarAnalytical Grammar Easy Grammar Ultimate Grade 11 (this is what MFW has scheduled for US1 which we will be completing this year, but they assume your student has done Applications of Grammar book 1, which we did not)Rod and Staff 6 or 7

Of the above which would you suggest and why? He will only have two years total in which to complete his grammar studies. Thanks again for all the advice!

BlessingsSandra

Sandra,

brainstorming with you here..

*for 11th grader, who hasn't completed applications of grammar, I think using the 11th grade easy grammar ultimate book series will be fine. I'm looking at the instructions on caps rules, punctuation, parts of speech. it's taught in small steps and instruction is given through rules, definitions and examples. So, it can be "review" these topics for students who did completed All in One and then Applications... but it can be new instruction for 11th grader who needs it at this point

*how is his grammar in everyday talking and edited work?

I haven't used other programs to know much on them.

oh wait... is the other part of the question if he does EG 11th grade, what to do in 12th? or if EG in 11th, is anything needed in 12th?

ilovemy4kids wrote:Hmm...hadn't thought that far... I guess if EG in 11th, then he'd do EG in 12th.or R and S 7 then 8 or 6 then 7Or Analytical Grammar in 1 or 2 yearsor Jensens in 1 year, then they say you don't need anything else...

I'm not sure one would need EG in 12th in order to finish high school levels...I think for many students, it becomes review of the same and practice for edit skills. some times teachers want to have more drill review, but it's nothing new to learn on it....

EG is covering the same goals as Jensens with various constructions and punctuation. It's about getting the details of a good sentence. it might come down to samples of how long each day, how easy it is to do on the student's own.. etc...

still brainstorming with you. I don't think EG is included because more was needed in instruction... but there for keeping skills sharp while editing and getting ready for those SAT/ACT things... can be done in 10 minutes a day in short lessons... edit skills.

If my son was in this situation I would have him complete the EG in US History to 1877. If he is unfamiliar with the concepts and principles and struggles to complete the lessons, have him also complete Applications of Grammar. If he does well with EG, 11th grade, he will likely have all the formal grammar instruction he needs.

Missy OH wrote:Can someone describe to me what the American Literature Supplement is? Can this be used without the TM?Thanks,Missy

It can be used without the daily lesson planner in US1. However, If used without the US 1 plans, it will be up to the student to schedule and do the lessons. I see one note in the planner to add a tiny bit of information about a literary term used that week.

However, the Am Lit Sup is not the entire English credit in US1.

Am Lit Sup is a MFW adaptation of three resources by J. Stobaugh (For Such a Time as This): American Literature, Skills for Literary Analysis, Skills for Rhetoric. MFW obtained license to adapt and publish the best parts of all of those 3 resources to fit more with MFW ideas and make it more user friendly, etc.

Content wise, tise supplement has selections/readings in American Literature from time frame that matches history study in US1. After reading selection, students will have assignments in critical thinking and/or writing appropriate for rhetoric level.

again, it's not the only thing for English credit. about 22 lessons, and an appendix with tips on writing and evaluating composition, how to do a novel review.. glossary with lit. terms

Thank you! I knew you would help. So, would I need to buy any other books to use with the supplement or does it contain the literature selections being studied? I am a bit confused on that part. Do you think it would be better if I just used something else since I can't buy the MFW package?

Blessings,Missy

Married 19 years, homeschooling for 12, mom to the boys 19,18,17, and brand new! and to the girls 13,10,8, and 3.

Missy OH wrote:So, would I need to buy any other books to use with the supplement or does it contain the literature selections being studied? I am a bit confused on that part.

I hope this is right from looking at the table of contents of the supplement... keep asking. I haven't had much practice in answering that question

The lit selections are printed in the supplement for almost all lessons. But not all. Yes, you will need....Additionally you will need these books that are listed on MFW's site with US1

*Of Plymouth Plantation (some text is listed in supplement, the rest in the book.. but to do the lessons in the supplement, I think the student has to read the whole book not just the selection)*Four Great American Classics (The Scarlet Letter, Red Badge of Courage, Billy Budd, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn)** see extra info below this stuff....*The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin - lessons in supplement do not have the book or selections.*Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass (some text is listed in the supplement... to do the lessons in the supplement, I think the student has to read the whole book not just the selection)

On Stobaugh's website, one can see a sample of the book that mfw adapted for it. (look under american literature on his site. well.. the MFW print quality is way better than the online sample on stobaugh site shows. maybe it was just my screen though.. you know how that kind of thing can be....)

**extra note that I hope doesn't confuse regarding Four Great American Classics. From what I can see for the ALS, one would have to have Red Badge of Courage, and Billy Budd. Scarlett Letter is not really done in the supplement, but done in Progeny Press Guide. However, it is assumed in the lessons on Hawthorne in the supplement, that the student knows the book otherwise, part A of the lesson makes little sense. and the ALS lesson has a selection from Huck Finn,... so for the price of the Four Great American Classics book, I'd suggest you get that as you will need at least 3 of the stories from there b/c they aren't included even as selections in the ALS.

uh... you asked a tough question... would it be better to use something else if you aren't getting the whole package with MFW? that's tough to answer in writing as I haven't started US1 yet. It is just a matter of adding a little more to make a full English credit? I can see how ALS and the extra books.. and then longer guide on some things and then the other Am Lit textbook... planning it out... can I pass on that question? and you don't have to answer this out loud if it's uncomfyis the mfw price out of range, or it is don't wanna use everything mfw has scheduled or other...

I can see you are "iffy" on whether or not this will work on its own. It is definitely a money issue for us. I had planned on MFW for school this year but it isn't working out. I've got something to use for everything except literature. I just can't find something I like. This will be our second year w/out MFW and school just doesn't have the same feel. Thank you so much for taking the time to help talk me through whether or not this would work for us.

Married 19 years, homeschooling for 12, mom to the boys 19,18,17, and brand new! and to the girls 13,10,8, and 3.

mamom wrote:Question for those of you who have done high school US History to 1877--Do you need to add a writing program? From what I can see in the catalog there are not any writing assignments. Input would be appreciated!

I'm starting US1 soon. maybe tomorrow or Tuesday. I"ll try a bit.

From the website FAQ"In Year 3, U.S. History to 1877, American literature is analyzed from a Biblical worldview using reading and writing assignments in the American Literature Supplement. The Progeny Press study guide for The Scarlet Letter also includes assigned essays. In addition, grammar review is included using Easy Grammar Ultimate Series: Grade 11".

The other "writing" instruction that can be added to the program is the use of REA CLEP College Composition study guide. Even if you don't go CLEP route for exam/potential credit, use of the book at the end of the end will have those finishing touches. In terms of how to write a sentence, a paragraph, topic sentence.. that's been covered to the point that not needed to repeat it for average student. Time to apply it to assignments. There might be times where you need to give your student a little more guidance the same way if you were in a classroom and the teacher said summarize this speech... . and you didnt' know what that meant as a student.. you should learn to go ask.

I'm seeing plenty of writing assignments in the American Literature Supplement. That resource was adapted from Stobaugh LIt.

in US1 with BJU test in history... each test seems to have at least 1 or more short answer paragraph essay questions. sweet. I'm so glad for answer keys to know if she's hitting the main objectives of those questions...

For average to above average student in 11th grade, I don't see a need to add more. There will always be cases where a student need remediation in a skill or help from parent to clarify assignment. Additionally, writing is expected across the curriculum in other subjects - including worldview journaling. In the online sample weeks, there are several writing assignments. When you see it with Am. Lit Supplement, lesson 8, assignment B and C.. .those are both extensive writing assignments related to the speeches being read that week. or in the following week, there is an across the curriculum assignment with letter to editor or legislator on topic.

I won't be adding a writing program. I might add in some explanation or help to get an assignment started.

Thank you for your questions. We realized the information provided about Year 3 high school --US History to 1877 in the catalog and online does not give a good description of the writing in this year, so we will look to remedy this in the next catalog and on the website. Crystal has pulled a quote from the FAQ's and from the catalog on page 44--Composition and Grammar in My Father's World--High School. You can also read this by going to the online catalog here https://www.mfwbooks.com/inc/catalog/view.html#/page/1. To give a little more information there will be a mix of essays and short paragraphs in response to the literature read during this year. One of the essays is a 5 paragraph argumentative essay after the Scarlet Letter. If you have been using the previous 2 years of MFW high school this will not be a new kind of assignment.

It is important to note that the last 2 years specific kinds of writing have been taught using : the Ancient Literature Supplement with Grammar and Composition and Writers Inc. as well as information provided in the Daily Lesson Plans. This has been preparation for the writing that will be assigned in Year 3 of high school. These resources are available to use during year 3 of high school as they write some of the same kinds of assignments, responding to the assignments in the American Literature Supplement.

I have had 2 children who have completed US1 to 1877 and you do not need additional writing to complete a credit of English this year.

Hope this helps to alleviate your concerns!Lucy

MFW Board Moderator

Wife to LeeMom to Twila 21 and Noel 19, Used MFW Fall 2002-Spring 2013Both MFW graduates, now attending college

sewardmom wrote:I am trying to understand [the thread] about the ALS supplement. We started school this week and I see on p. 6 (#1) the instruction to read and discuss the guide question with the parent. If there is much more than that, I don't see it. What am I missing as far as teaching alongside?

sewardmom wrote:I called the MFW office and was told that the first week it might be helpful to meet daily with the student just to make sure she is on the right track.After that however, the guide question in the box is really the only thing that I should be doing with my student. She also indicated that it could be a daily chat or all done on the Friday meeting depending on the family situation/schedule. She did say that if a parent is not available and we choose the weekly chat, the student should jot down his/her thoughts on the guidance questions for each day and bring it to the Friday conference.Flexibility - I like that. I thought it would be helpful for future users.~Terri

Sorry I am slow in giving some input on the writing assignments in the American Literature Supplement. Two of my children have used this program and are now in college. I also checked in with another family that completed US History to 1877 with three of their children, all very different learners.

I agree that the writing this year is different from earlier years. The assignments are asking our children to do more critical and analytic thinking. The goal is for them to read and then thoughtfully consider the assignment in light of what they have read and what they are learning in English and Bible--Thinking Like a Christian.

When the length of the assignment is not defined the goal is simply to write enough to answer the question. When the length is not defined it is likely a paragraph or two, or using a chart format to do a comparison, or a discussion with an available parent my be enough. Other assignments will have a suggested length. Lesson 4-Benjamin Franklin in the ALS asks for a 2.5 to 3 page paper. There are a variety of both shorter and longer (2-3 page) assignments in ALS.

If your children have used Year 1, AHL and Year 2, WHL, I believe most students will have the writing background and experience with analytical and critical thinking that they can successfully complete the assignments. They may need some time to adjust to the differences in the types of assignments given in ALS. If students are able to persevere in adjusting to this type of thinking and writing, they will be better prepared for college and/or a career. I have often heard my son wishing his college professors would give more direction on assignments. His professors' responses when asked for more information are usually, "you need to figure it out." After a summer internship my son recognized how much in industry is undefined and requires the ability to take in information, assess, and then move forward based on strong critical and analytical thinking. I believe US1 helps our now 16 or 17 year olds grow in these skills. Overall, the feedback we are hearing from families who have completed the program is positive.

Bret Welshymer wrote:When the length is not defined it is likely a paragraph or two, or using a chart format to do a comparison, or a discussion with an available parent my be enough. Other assignments will have a suggested length.

Thanks for that clarification, Bret. My son would never even consider writing an essay if he wasn't told to write an essay. Instead, he'd likely write a word or two as an answer, and call it good. I can now officially tell him to write a paragraph or chart out a comparison Basically, it sounds similar to the way we did it at our house when the 5-paragraph essay wasn't specifically assigned in AHL (e.g. Smarr thinking questions, Notgrass essays, Psalms) and WHL (e.g. speech, poems, plot summary) -- it feels somewhat flexible as long as he answers the question and meets my parent expectations. We'll see in a couple of weeks when we get started. Thanks again,

4littlehearts wrote:We are using WHL this year. As I was looking through what I could find about the 11 th grade year in MFW , i noticed that there does not seem to be hardly any writing in this year. Is that true or am I overlooking something? Thanks!

Writing in US1 did feel a little different to me. The "big focus" in AHL was the argumentative essay, and in WHL the research project & Writers Inc/types of writing. In US1, the "English" focus seemed to be the grammar review and the Progeny Press literature guide.

For writing, I guess the student has "graduated" from instruction exercises to just writing well? The main points for my son in the previous two years had been (1) organize your writing and (2) support your writing. So now that those have been taught, they can continue to apply to anything, even just answering questions, or I've even heard of families who continue to practice more formally argued answers to some of the US1 daily work. The final piece of writing in US1 that might not be evident was the literature supplement, including a connection to the worldview Bible study. There are lots of early founding documents and such to read, absorb, and comment on in terms of worldview (and other things).

So, for instance on the website you can see sample week 10 has students reading quite a lengthy piece written by Daniel Boone on day 1, then day 2 is reading Thanksgiving proclamations by Washington and Lincoln plus doing "assignment B" which is a worldview type assignment and involves 2 or more paragraphs and must include examples from both speeches. There's a little creative writing in US1, as well, which some kids will like, e.g. I think ds read an early American journal of a woman who was captured by a Native American tribe and then was to write an entry of his own, or something like that.

Thanks Julie! We have used WHL this year, never using AHL, and although I had to tweak some of the literature readings, having a schedule all planned out for me was well worth it for both my daughter and me.

I am still not sure if we are going to use US1 next year or if I am going to try to piece my own thing together. If $ permits, I would like to continue into US 1. We will see... Thanks for all your help today and in the past!

I will be placing my son in World Hisotry next year as a rising 10th grader. For English this year, I have him in English I through The Potter School which is quite intense. He does not particularly like online classes or the format for TPS. I have looked at the writing for next year (with MFW) and Writer's Inc., and really am impressed with the book.

However, I get a little nervous lookin at year 11 and 12 and the lack of "instruction" that is provided for writing; or am I missing something?

I really don't want to enrolll in Potter School English for next year (since he doesn't enjoy and the it is too costly to not LOVE it) but I want to make sure that we continue to build his skills in writing and cover all the basis prior to college.

In US2, the biggest projects are speech and another research project, if you choose. (I used our WHL research project for some career interviews, and so I think my son got double return.)

I'm biased about writing. Writing is a big deal to me, and I just think the only true help is to write, and to get feedback from a reader. I think if you can provide that for your children all through high school, then they will make progress in their writing skills.

Hopefully others will share their experiences. And keep asking questions if you need more info,Julie