As I was beginning to rant in another post about explorations and the point of doing the retrievals for me, it occured to me to inquire about other people's experiences regarding the other things that have been brought to my attention while exploring, and much of which was begun at Exploration 27 (at Monroe) in February 2008.

For some time I have felt the nature of the gateway or wormhole or doorway or whatever it is between the various levels has been dissolving and changing. More frequently I find the perspective of being in a still spot and having it all move and change around me, like I reached over and changed the channel on the Holo-Deck and then opened my eyes on an entirely different channel. In any case, the nature of these passages has changed for me, gotten a whole lot less distinct and separate and more a continuum. I set out to explore the BSTs (belief system territories per Bruce's books, Focus 23/24/25/26 in Monroe speak). I was struck with the extent of them, particularly the lower bardos, Focus 23 even, and 24, too. The variety and extent of the barely-there and self-punishment of hells was quite fascinating to me, and it seemed like I had visited many of them briefly myself in this and other lifetimes. I ended up in these areas while seeking to do retrievals on members of my "I-there" or "We-There", attemtpt to assist my I-There is collecting and reassembling our entire splintered One Self so that we might move on to more exciting and fulfilling things than endless reincarnation on the physical planes of C-1. My interest is moving on.

Initially this was very fruitful, particularly using pure and unbridled unconditional love and forgiveness. After all, I was loving and forgiving aspects of my own One Self. I usually went with guidance that I would acquire as I counted up, or sometimes got from Focus 27 on request. Later I worked on what I might call higher-vibrational levels. No hells, but some very rigid collective thought-form areas populated by groups more than individuals (unlike the lower realms where I found more small groups and individuals). These, too, were retrievals for my I-There. These territories were extensive and populated (if that is the term).

But lately I am finding all these areas between 21 and 27 becoming less dense, less extensive, less populated. I am told they are being "cleared up to 27" and also find 27 MUCH more extensive and expansive/expanding than it has been. It used to be a place of stillness for me, and I find it MUCH more energized and populated. By the same token, beings with whom I have visited extensively on Focus 27 are moving to higher vibrational reals as well. My mother, who formerly "worked" in the Healing and Rejuventaion Center is no longer there, and is found more and more frequently farther on--- like around 33/34 for me. The Gathering (both Bruce and Bob Monroe wrote about it) is 34/35. I find my "I-there" someplace like 42 or so, and beyond that I sort of lose my way as yet...... but I do know it keeps on and one.

So to my inquiry---

Anyone else finding this thinning? As there are fewer beings there, there is less thought to sustain the illusion and these towns and cities are thinning and dissolving back in to the quantum field from which the thoughts collapsed them in the frist place. Like the path to 27 is being rebuilt and reinforced so peole don't take so many little detours along the way, and 27 is growing in preparation.

All of my exploration has been about the Earth Changes for which The Gathering is occuring. These times and these changes are upon us. I got some truly startling and almost unbelieveable information exploring The Gathering and interacting with the energies there, and look forward to more at Starline (at Monroe) in July. Such information is for a different post if anyone is interested.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #2 - May 13th, 2008 at 1:29pm

glad to see you posting for us TG! You and Ginny who just returned here are very good retrievers and so I'm thrilled to hear your accounts and I know we are all One, it's becoming more clear with each day.before I respond to your post thought it pertinent to confirm something for your confirmation you are who you say you are, in case the newbies think differently!

I mean if my opinion counts, lol. we do support each other in our oneness either here/there. I wanted to remind all the new people here, whenever ANYONE posts here, they are giving a gift of themselves and we should honor it, no matter we don't understand a word they are saying perhaps.this way, we can slide into the shift in consciousness gracefully instead of screaming for mercy.

the confirmation I'm giving forth of for you...a while back we worked on a retrieval together. You had noted it was suicide. I wasn't sure but I had seen something that looked like murder.the party who inquired of our services has finally fessed up that it was suicide as you said. Before she would not say, preferring to make us work for that info. there appears to be a massive amount of guilt she deals with now. I am trying to help. just wanted to give you a kudo, not that you need it.

Your main question to us, who do retrievals and/or exploration is whether we think the lower astrals or BST's are being cleared?

Yes, this is a part of the plan and has been underway for years, steadily; each retrieval done on an individual alleviates some of the collective garbage thoughts/feelings out there, part of the grid sound gets mellowed out, creating more light pathways to the higher levels of truth and away from the self hells which are dissolved into nothing at that point.

As I see it, we are all one, and creating of the Grid/matrix/collective, and it can be symbolized as a massive energy cloud/sound laying closest to the Earth of solidity. Just before a storm, it can be seen as gathering intensity before breaking on Earth's shore, some event, or Earth change.

Individuals, here and there, like yourself, will act as conductors, or points of light. we are all in the right place, is what I picked up. As the build up of intensive change occurs, individuals will, in their own towns and cities on the Earth C1, take in the negative and push it out cleansed to those around them, transmuting or disengaging the fear that will be generated so no one gets stuck and finds that pathway of light you were discussing. This is all unconscious activity for the most part, but we are waking up to where we go at night slowly but surely.

as an aside, sort of, I was privileged to act as retriever for my own mother back in 2006. I noticed the BST I was in, was a bustling, heavily populated city, much like I would imagine the streets of New York look like, although I've never been there physically. Everybody was moving fast then; walking somewhere, jostling each other even. My mom was a head in the crowd. I needed to get her out of there. She needed to find me too.I had a retriever station/apt there to my surprise. I was told another me, was always manning that station, parking people there and then going for guides to move them on.I don't know what level this was of BST, but it had something to do with folks who are industrious, yet it wasn't focus 27 exactly, where I imagine has many sub levels, perhaps it was focus 26, at any rate mother was moving on and needed a little help upwards, or onwards and had earned the lift due to her service values. It's difficult to imagine astral cities not there anymore for the recently departed, rather I would see the clearing as not a total clearing, as there's always free will to be there,I would see more easily a widening pathways to higher thought being accomplished, more road signs so to speak, the path made smoother, that sort of thing.

The main thing I'm here for is to make sure no one panics during these Earth changes..we all wanted to be here for the show anyway..somebody has to keep their head...

yes, I would be VERY interested in Starline. we don't get enough TMI posters. you are one of a handful who has come here over the years. matter of fact I've been on a perpetual rant that they won't post here. so that's why there's not much response to your beyond 27 post.

it's my personal observation TMI grads simply don't work here; all the more reason I value your input, and hey! we have no idea really who is benefitting from our posts, where or when, but I'm certain that it all helps to get us where we want to be..a peaceful world with a cessation of killing due to more enlightened behavior towards one another...is that too much to ask?

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #3 - May 13th, 2008 at 2:59pm

An afterthought regarding wormhole or doorway or as TG says "whatever it is."

I think it can be likened to focus 21, called the Bridge to the Afterlife.

Awhile back I had an Obe where I began my trek towards the bridge. I saw only a few others ahead of me on this bridge, as I walked across the sand (the ocean was there too) others joined me on the left and right, we were all straggling towards the bridge with an air of great relief! and some excitement. I stopped to brush some sand off the face of a fallen comrade. I wanted him to go with me. he had said he would come later on. I think he's on the bridge now.

I see the bridge as illustrative of the shift in consciousness into a type of 4rth dimensional thinking, which is where the two worlds as we see it now, becomes One World. This entails direct knowing and a sense of not having to think, not having conflicts in the mind. just a knowing.

I will list the focus levels for newbies again, and Monroe's philosophy which is 4rth dimensional consciousness as I see it. you all should realize these are only words to try to describe a shift occurring on the earth right now, doorways, bridges, 4rth dimensions, 5th dimensions, focus levels, these are tools of thought pointing to our greater reality without explaining that greater reality. A while back I also saw this board operating as a retrieval base from 5th dimensional plane and from where many messages were sent out as well. it was a service based plane.

There is no beginning, there is no end, There is only change.There is no teacher, there is no student, There is only remembering.There is no good, there is no evil, There is only expression.There is no union, there is no sharing, There is only one.There is no joy, there is no sadness, There is only love.There is no greater, there is no lesser, There is only balance.There is no statis, there is no entropy, There is only motion.There is no wakefulness, there is no sleep, There is only being.There is no limit, there is no chance, There is only a plan.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #4 - May 13th, 2008 at 3:59pm

Well, I want to thank you for these excellent posts. I am one of those newbies who is enjoying reading them. I know about the consciousness shift, but I sometimes like a whole lot of back-up from others who have more experience than I am aware of having right now. I don't get into fear, but sometimes lose sight of what is happening when I hear about one disaster after another and everything else. It is really great to hear that the belief systems territory may be clearing out. I wonder if some of us do work at night and may not be aware of it? Anyway, I for one will return to read this thread if anything is added.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #5 - May 13th, 2008 at 4:26pm

Hi SHSS and welcome here. Some lucid dreams give a glimpse to soul travels during the night, even if they are shrouded in symbols that need interpreting when u awaken, it is a glimpse of the areas you work within with your greater awareness.

C1 stands for waking consciousness and is known to be a limited perspective type of area. Your greater being can be seen as your eternal spirit connected to the collective mind area, where we are all One.Your greater self, as Mind, does not need to sleep. It can be seen by sensitives as a form hanging close by the body while it sleeps, yet most often it will be flying to classes, groups, friends, etc. physical reality is only a shallow reflection of this other world.You have only to set an intention and you will start to remember where you go at night. but be persistent and believe that you can remember.

and you already know something...be fearless. to be brave. love, alysia

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #6 - May 13th, 2008 at 11:04pm

Hi Thomas, since I started with TMI-style explorations, the tendencies in my experience are

-- I feel less urge for doing retrievals. The latest stage in doing retrievals was doing group retrievals, being in F23 and sending out a signal of invitation to go up with me, then having the feeling of a some persons with me, and up it goes. -- I had discovered that there is a region in F27 which is for those who move on. It's not longer really there to provide a form/institutions, but to provide calmness and freedom for those who take the step into different, less human-shaped regions, and maybe partly living already there. The impression of this part of F27 is, it is a vast plane with light like from a sunrise, and here and there a someone, meditating. Maybe we can take this as a region between F27 and something different. -- The differentiation in F27 has decreased, so that it doesn't really matter whether I'm at The Park, at one of the centers, or at My Place. It's more like asking for something, and it's there in a less shaped, less concrete manner, rather than moving around and seeing different areas. -- I have found on two or three occasions that there is a both-side-contact between high regions of the BSTs (F26 or so) and F27, so in some cases, there is no that strict borderline.

I'm not able to judge if these are objective tendencies, or if it's a change in my perception.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #7 - May 14th, 2008 at 3:43am

tjecks and alysia,

I interesting first thread on quantum physics as it relates to the metaphysical.

Indeed we stand still while all existence revolves around us, from our perpective even God would vanish if we did.

tjecks quote

Quote:

Anyone else finding this thinning? As there are fewer beings there, there is less thought to sustain the illusion and these towns and cities are thinning and dissolving back in to the quantum field from which the thoughts collapsed them in the frist place. Like the path to 27 is being rebuilt and reinforced so peole don't take so many little detours along the way, and 27 is growing in preparation

alysia reply to tjeck

Quote:

Your main question to us, who do retrievals and/or exploration is whether we think the lower astrals or BST's are being cleared?

Yes, this is a part of the plan and has been underway for years, steadily; each retrieval done on an individual alleviates some of the collective garbage thoughts/feelings out there, part of the grid sound gets mellowed out, creating more light pathways to the higher levels of truth and away from the self hells which are dissolved into nothing at that point

post of mine in Blinks thread after alan...........

Quote:

Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind

”.

The above was my attempt in explaning this clearing, is this wrong in anyway ?

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #8 - May 14th, 2008 at 4:25pm

Hi Alan, your quote: Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind._______

then u r asking if you said it wrong, to explain the clearing TJ was talking about. In a way I can see you are talking about the clearing also. It's just the words strike fear into certain people, the way it's worded. words like banished, mindlessness, failed, this generates a type of preaching attitude, we have to get beyond somehow, because on a spirit level those seen to be successful on Earth plane can at the same time be seen to be unsuccessful to accomplish their intentions for incarnation on a spiritual level.

I think personally if I were God, I would not banish anyone or convert anyone to mindlessness, but I like the part of regeneration. I can see what you said about banished "for awhile."

this might be illustrative of the "sleep period" I saw where the life review is undergone and those realms of life we identified with strongly as being a part of us, are stripped away as not important. but banishment is hard to fathom as a part of a natural process of soul evolvement.

It also sounds like a machine like process, dehumanizing the soul. too cut and dried. I think while you are considering what you have seen out there, remember the religious term, that of redemption, what that really means to us. it may have some bearing on this talk, as redemption is all inclusive.

while I don't resonate well with your words, I know where your heart is, and it's in the right place, and I will agree with you only this far; there is free will, part of that free will is the urge to fight and increase the ego..these are those who choose this experience, they are still free to do so, within turf given to them for that purpose, to evolve as they will.But I don't consider that banishment or reduced to mindlessless, but I could see these younger sparks put into a new dimension of the movie, or another planet even.however I'm not knowing about other planets..just that it's quite possible to self destruct one and that we are being watched so we don't blow the place up with weaponry.

thank you for your visions, I'm sure you're on the right track and we speak basically the same values. I think though humans, young or old souls, whatever have this propensity to change their minds so quickly, to be transformed that it becomes difficult to say who's wearing the white hat and who's wearing the black hat, as an explanation for what's going to happen and so to predict the future accurately.

Remember Monroe: "there is no bad, there is no good." What we do is change ourselves, then the other guy changes as well, because we don't resist evil, we don't see evil, we don't make it real that way." The evil we see is or has been something we knew before, that it was us who did the killing before and now it's us who want to change that by only thinking of what is true, what is being spirit led and spirit filled, apart from religious terminology.

it's essentially a new consciousness on the Earth I spoke of in another place. We can call it 4rth dimensional consciousness, or just the shift in consciousness, but it's here, not in the future, not on the other side. It simply entails PUL, or a huge cooperative effort to save the planet from destructive forces starting with just you and me.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #9 - May 14th, 2008 at 6:29pm

Alysia wrote "But I don't consider that banishment or reduced to mindlessless, but I could see these younger sparks put into a new dimension of the movie, or another planet even.however I'm not knowing about other planets..just that it's quite possible to self destruct one and that we are being watched so we don't blow the place up with weaponry.

Remember Monroe: "there is no bad, there is no good." What we do is change ourselves, then the other guy changes as well, because we don't resist evil, we don't see evil, we don't make it real that way." The evil we see is or has been something we knew before, that it was us who did the killing before and now it's us who want to change that by only thinking of what is true, what is being spirit led and spirit filled, apart from religious terminology."

Alysia, regarding your above comments to Alan, if you consider Bruce Moen's viewpoint, some souls do get banished to mindlessness when they are disconnected from a disk because it becomes apparent that they will never move on to the light. This suggests that there is bad, because there are some souls that don't get to the point where they get to experience perfection for all of eternity. If what Bruce wrote is true, how many souls get banished in such a way? If it is done on a percentage basis and an infinite number of souls exist, then an infinite number will be banished, because no matter how small of a percentage is involved, A x infinity = infinity. That is unless an infinite number of souls exist, but manifestation was designed so only a minimal number of souls incarnate in a manner that could potentially lead to eternal destruction.

Another possibility is that an infinite number of souls "haven't" been created. This is hard to imagine if source being is infinite.

I can't say whether some souls get banished, because I haven't discovered the answer one way or the other. Some sources say that no soul ever gets banished.

I don't mean to suggest that somebody is passing out false information. I've found that sources that seem to be sincere and honest contradict each other at times. Perhaps the spirit World intentionally gives different messages to different messengers with the understanding that different people need to receive different messages according to where they are at. The key is to provide each person with something he or she can work with.

If the below comment is true, perhaps it isn't a negative thing. It seems to state that if a Soul reaches a point where it can't be healed, its faulty memories are cleared so it can get a new start. This is diffferent than the viewpoint Bruce presented, when he suggested that a lost soul's energy will fade away and be absorbed by the other spirits who abide in the lower realm it abides in.

"Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind."

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #10 - May 14th, 2008 at 7:18pm

IMO, because so many of us have been brought up in religions, or we have other selves that may be stuck in these beliefs as we speak, religious under or over tones seem to seep into just about everything we can imagine. God somehow punishing or sending failed souls to some sort of hell or recycling center is something I cannot buy at all. I also do not accept the idea of karma as punishment of any kind.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #11 - May 14th, 2008 at 8:57pm

Alysia, regarding your above comments to Alan, if you consider Bruce Moen's viewpoint, some souls do get banished to mindlessness when they are disconnected from a disk because it becomes apparent that they will never move on to the light. _______

Bruce also said it was a rare occurrence.____R said: This suggests that there is bad, because there are some souls that don't get to the point where they get to experience perfection for all of eternity.____

We are still in 3 dimensional consciousness as a whole. When we begin the 4rth dimensional consciousness (more of us) we can see there is only an experience here; we can see we have extreme examples of deviation from misuse of free will. These are played up in the media for sensational value; however consider that the media would have no news unless it's bad news. that's what I mean about we are still operating from good/bad synthesis.that something bad happened so something good could happen later, is the way I view my own life, in an overview, thus there is no bad, there is no good, if indeed guidance was operating, this can be seen in the life review, that there is cause and effect eternally, and free will just means we learn to choose rather than be reactive. there are no more victim mentalities from a higher perspective, as all agreed to be here and participate. PUL begins to operate from a higher consciousness during the shift.If you look at people as being a degree of that 4rth dimensional consciousness, then you see evolution of the soul as all of us having our placement according to our willingness to work on ourselves, and let grace (spirit) do the rest. I have a little story to tell. A man was a heavy drinker. He died. Several retrievers came to move him to his afterlife station. He didn't want to go but was instructed he'd probably like it where they took him, perhaps to see loved ones. He finally agreed and the three of them began to rise into the light towards focus 27 most likely. As they rose, the man had another body which tore loose from his soul body and all looked at this other body as it was to stay on the lower astral planes, while the man's true self went with the retrievers; briefly the party followed it to see where it went; it went into a bar, attached itself to a physical man drinking at the bar, and began to imbide of the fumes and "high" of the man in the bar, whispering for him to drink more.

and these are known as negs, or attachments. Most people with an addiction, are not even aware there are such things happening. this is why our criminals will say they heard a voice telling them to do something evil.

this is basically the lower astral which will be speeded up to dissolve these thought forms which have a certain degree of remembrance, of who they were in physical life. This is what they builded up; they sat at a bar drinking, they built up "a false self."

the false self is not eternal, it is not essence, it is not a soul. It is something we created as co-creators and serves no real purpose to be returning to the disc. It's not a fruit of the soul. It's just like a thought form, a desire form of low grade intelligence and many of these are also like what we call a ghost, yet all ghosts are not negs, some are spirits attached to their houses or a truamatic happenstance, they can be retrieved to a higher level in that case.

over time insubstantial negs or thought forms which have this temporary life dissolve into nothing. I call them floaters when they begin to lose consciousness and break up. Remember they are not real souls, they are aspects of our creative function. These are often found in the lower astrals, or the hell BSTs.

What was good and true and loving in the drunk man did go to his just reward, which in his case just to be with his family he might consider that a reward, because they loved him and love is what saves a soul, or is what is saved. his family would have been his disc members who had helped him plan his life experience and participated with him. R said: If it is done on a percentage basis and an infinite number of souls exist, then an infinite number will be banished, because no matter how small of a percentage is involved, A x infinity = infinity. ____ I don't understand your equation. sorry.Infinity and banishment are not compatible concepts to me. I understand banishment to mean many mansions, many BST's, many stations of beingness, and degrees evolving into a myriad of choices to become, and universes where the rules are different than ELS._____R said: That is unless an infinite number of souls exist, but manifestation was designed so only a minimal number of souls incarnate in a manner that could potentially lead to eternal destruction. ____I sort of agree, that only a certain number of serial killers incarnate during each historical period, but I don't see eternal destruction was ever a real possibility, unless that is like an alternate reality that happened, where this particular me, was not stationed, I could see planets exploding, but since the soul is eternal in its essence I would see the destruction of a planet as simply another step in evolution designed to point out what doesn't work so god beings can go back to the drawing table and begin again this marvelous experiment called life. ok, so it's not always marvelous, but change is the only absolute if you think about it._____R said: Another possibility is that an infinite number of souls "haven't" been created. This is hard to imagine if source being is infinite.____we don't know, but I've read about this theory, souls are birthed on the other side before incarnating here, or on the planet of their intentions. It's not too hard to imagine if you consider the human body can reproduce after it's own kind, why not souls reproducing after it's own kind, because this planet is suppose to be a shadow of the universe, or reflection, as above, so below.

One thing I would never waste my time trying to think of in terms of what infinity is, or where the edges of our universe is, because we cannot imagine that in C1, defined as limited being; however, we can go in our thoughts many places to explore._____R said: I can't say whether some souls get banished, because I haven't discovered the answer one way or the other. Some sources say that no soul ever gets banished._____From what I've gathered, one can banish one's self into it's own hell place. Buried guilts will cause this. For instance, the guy who was addicted, where he was going, his lower desires could not go with him and so in a way, you could see the thought/body/desire body, the addiction as being banished. A friend of mine wanted to visit a hell. He found a man had put himself in a jail, and there was even a willing spirit there who wanted to play jailor. I assume, I've seen many, helpers on the other side working the BST's, clearing them out. We're not sure how it works exactly, not enough of us are doing it.this guy who was in jail, I suspect can be persuaded to move out in time, to a higher level, first he'd have to forgive himself, whatever he did wrong, which he figures needs punishment. It might be shown to him later, some things he did which were good.

If you think about it, a lot of us are already in our self made hells. the best way I know of, is to say I'm sorry to whoever we hurt intentionally, then learn that hurting others causes us to feel guilty because frankly, we are guilty then. Thats why the bible said "if you have ought against any person, make it up to them somehow." you don't want to get on the other side and be having your disc members up in your face telling you what you did wrong in injuring someone. if you took pleasure in someone else's pain, this is a no no for spiritual evolvement to the higher planes. Many times the intentions were good, but someone got injured anyway. So this can be pointed out. Any soul wants to turn over a new leaf can be aided in that very quickly.R said:I don't mean to suggest that somebody is passing out false information. I've found that sources that seem to be sincere and honest contradict each other at times. ___

yes, I know it's hard to discern truth from fiction sometimes. It's easier if you get on a heart path and let your heart be your guide. the heart doesn't lie. stay away from shifty eyes.. they are hold outs._____

If the below comment is true, perhaps it isn't a negative thing. It seems to state that if a Soul reaches a point where it can't be healed, its faulty memories are cleared so it can get a new start. This is diffferent than the viewpoint Bruce presented, when he suggested that a lost soul's energy will fade away and be absorbed by the other spirits who abide in the lower realm it abides in.____

when we talk of these things it doesn't have to be an "either/or" discussion. Something that happens to us that feels negative, later on becomes a positive, if thinking in terms of the highest good coming about. the astral form that clings unto the drinker for instance, it thinks it has beingness. I don't feel any compassion for a mindless entity such as what I see in this case. Bruce's viewpoint doesn't have to be wrong in order that another's viewpoint can be accepted as right.the same with you and me. I tried to express to you that your viewpoint was right as well mine, which was a different viewpoint from yours, was right also, just another way of looking at it.I think the trick is to find the common link between two viewpoints and distill the truth from that commonality.with you and I, on another thread, I was considering how much you can love a person, which would cause you to try to find your loved one in a mirror, and the common link we have, is that she can find her loved one in the mirror of her mind, but has not attempted that yet.However, upon occassion a real mirror becomes a temporary aide to get to the mirror of the mind, which would of course be the most desirable of the two means.I had seen a picture of her father whispering to the medium to try the mirror one time as he was not able to make contact with her any other way and had been trying.spirits spend a lot of time trying to figure ways to break through the veil to us, we are really dense but getting better.

u r mellowing out these days. or maybe it's just me being willing to a little further with all these words...did u ever see a more gabby woman in all your life?

IMO, because so many of us have been brought up in religions, or we have other selves that may be stuck in these beliefs as we speak, religious under or over tones seem to seep into just about everything we can imagine. God somehow punishing or sending failed souls to some sort of hell or recycling center is something I cannot buy at all. I also do not accept the idea of karma as punishment of any kind.

Love,SHSS

I agree we need new language for concepts besides the standard religious terms, or we could put new meaning on old words, such as atonement. I see this at at-one-ment. we are one.

I agree about karma is not punishment, for me, it was an agreement with the others I participated with, we planned the whole thing. it's just that I would have to forget I planned it, in order to have this type of drama I wanted.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #13 - May 15th, 2008 at 12:43pm

Alysia:

Here's another way to put it. Different NDE people find different things. Some people say this is due to what a person is open to experiencing. It might also be a matter of what a person is willing to accept after an NDE is over.

I figure another factor determines the variance. NDE people are sort of like spiritual messengers. Different people are open to different messages. If a person has a really fundamentalist way of looking at things, he or she won't seriously consider an NDE that isn't fundamentalist. This person will start out with an NDE that is somewhat fundamentalist, but has enough of a love message so this person will consider the love factor. This opening to love will enable this person to consider NDEs that are even less fundamentalist, which will in turn enable a person to open up to NDEs and other sources of information that are even less fundamentalist. Beings who represent the light know what people are like. Spiritual growth often needs to be a gradual process.

Therefore, whenever a person reads a source, even sources that are written by people who are clearly honest and well meaning people, this person will benefit if he or she allows his or herself to question such a source. Each person should write his or her own road map, rather than totaling relying on the road map of another. Part of the reason I like Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen, is because they seem to be people who believe that people should find out for themselves through exploration and other means.

Re: The Thinning of Belief System TerritoriesReply #14 - May 15th, 2008 at 1:02pm

recoverer,

I think that's a great way to put it. My cousin had an NDE and jesus showed up for her and she felt so wonderful because she is a christian. If I were to die and jesus or some ascended master or any other religious or new-age representative showed up, I'd freak out and run like heck.