Who do you think will fold first? Trump Or Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer?

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"Give me MY wall!!!"
"NO!"
"I"m not going to re-open the government until you do!!!"
"NO!"

It's the federal workers that are suffering, if Trump gave a rats ass about them, he would properly negotiate with the Democrats...

Trump keeps aching for a deal to happen but he refuses every proposal UNLESS it includes wall funding.

Lindsay Graham offer a suggestion of opening the government for three weeks while they discus the wall on a separate bill. That sounds reasonable, but Trump refused that suggestion as well. Trump really doesn't want to deal at all.

I think the wall and the shutdown is a diversion from the Russian investigation and the Michael Cohen testimony coming next month.

They could have used reconciliation, which is how they passed the tax cut, and how they tried to repeal ACA. Reconciliation allows them to pass certain budgetary legislation with a simple majority.

The only fencing bill that I can find that Shumer, Obama, Clinton, and Pelosi all voted for was the Secure Fence Act. However, that didn't provide $20 billion for a border wall. It approved a border fence, but only provided $1.4B in appropriation for something like 600-700 miles of fencing. Estimates at the time suggested it would likely cost up to $50B to build and maintain fencing for the entire border. There is probably funding buried in the DHS appropriations, since apparently, a little over $2B was spent on fencing, but the only other bill that I can find that specifically provided funds for fencing was the 2013 bill.

IMO the problem with the government today is that the two parties don't talk to each other. They perform for the media and scream at each other, but nobody listens. Compromise can't happen if nobody is listening.

Agreed. I've had the pleasure of sitting in on a few UN sessions, and one take away was that no-one listens. Everyone thinks their opinion/stance is the only correct position to have.

Location: Earth? I would say I hope so but I'm not so sure about that... I could just be a figment of your imagination too.

Distribution: CentOS at the time of this writing, but some others over the years too...

Posts: 2,482

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid95

Trump keeps aching for a deal to happen but he refuses every proposal UNLESS it includes wall funding.

Lindsay Graham offer a suggestion of opening the government for three weeks while they discus the wall on a separate bill. That sounds reasonable, but Trump refused that suggestion as well. Trump really doesn't want to deal at all.

I think the wall and the shutdown is a diversion from the Russian investigation and the Michael Cohen testimony coming next month.

I tend to agree with you for the very most part. From what I can see; Trump "creates" a "crisis" and acts like he's the "savor", that's solved the "crisis" - that *HE* created to begin with.

He even said he'd shutdown the government if he didn't get his own way. That's not proper negotiation, that's blackmail. He's an idiot.

The funny thing is I read a satirical novel a couple of years ago called A Planet for the President, whose central figure seemed to me then to be a composite of Ronald Reagan and George W Bush. But I now realise that he was an amazing anticipation of Donald Trump. His way of governing was precisely to create crises (for example by briefly invading some other country and then declaring victory and retiring) whenever the press was on to some scandal about him. And then claiming to be the "saviour" who solved the crisis.

The funny thing is I read a satirical novel a couple of years ago called A Planet for the President, whose central figure seemed to me then to be a composite of Ronald Reagan and George W Bush. But I now realise that he was an amazing anticipation of Donald Trump. His way of governing was precisely to create crises (for example by briefly invading some other country and then declaring victory and retiring) whenever the press was on to some scandal about him. And then claiming to be the "saviour" who solved the crisis.

You mean like Pres. Clinton did during the impeachment trials, or Pres. Bush with his invasions, or Pres. Obama....Its a common political trick, and most countries employ it, illusionists use it to great effect, sleight of hand they call it.

PS: The problem at the border of USA and Mexico has been going on for over 50 years, and has increased each decade since. The main problem is the illegal immigrants represent two different things for both political parties: for Democrats, a voting base that almost always votes for tyranny and has little knowledge of US laws/Constitution, for Republicans, it provides a cheap labor force. Both parties are at fault. The real problem is the "progressive movement", which is actually a regressive movement, and this mentality affects most of the Democrat party and about half of the Republican party. Hence why the problem has persisted for so long.

I tend to agree with you for the very most part. From what I can see; Trump "creates" a "crisis" and acts like he's the "savor", that's solved the "crisis" - that *HE* created to begin with.

He even said he'd shutdown the government if he didn't get his own way. That's not proper negotiation, that's blackmail. He's an idiot.

As soon as Pres. Trump was elected the Democrats not only said they would not work with him, they have been trying ad nauseum to have him kicked out. Even before the election Pres. Trump (then candidate) was asked in a debate if he would accept the results of the election if Hillary Clinton won. What a wonderfully telling and prophetic question.

PS: Please don't forget that the real election fraud was committed by the Democrat Party when they rigged the primaries for Bernie Sanders to lose and Hillary to be the nominee no matter what the vote count tallies were.

You mean like Pres. Clinton did during the impeachment trials, or Pres. Bush with his invasions, or Pres. Obama....Its a common political trick, and most countries employ it, illusionists use it to great effect, sleight of hand they call it.

PS: The problem at the border of USA and Mexico has been going on for over 50 years, and has increased each decade since. The main problem is the illegal immigrants represent two different things for both political parties: for Democrats, a voting base that almost always votes for tyranny and has little knowledge of US laws/Constitution, for Republicans, it provides a cheap labor force. Both parties are at fault. The real problem is the "progressive movement", which is actually a regressive movement, and this mentality affects most of the Democrat party and about half of the Republican party. Hence why the problem has persisted for so long.

The southern border situation (it has NOT always been seen as a problem) has been there at least since Texas became a state. That said, it has NOT been increasing steadily. The number of people arriving (or trying to arrive) at that border is now at a 42 year LOW! I think that I will discard your "analysis" as flawed, but thank you for your ideas.

As soon as Pres. Trump was elected the Democrats not only said they would not work with him, they have been trying ad nauseum to have him kicked out. Even before the election Pres. Trump (then candidate) was asked in a debate if he would accept the results of the election if Hillary Clinton won. What a wonderfully telling and prophetic question.

PS: Please don't forget that the real election fraud was committed by the Democrat Party when they rigged the primaries for Bernie Sanders to lose and Hillary to be the nominee no matter what the vote count tallies were.

The southern border situation (it has NOT always been seen as a problem) has been there at least since Texas became a state. That said, it has NOT been increasing steadily. The number of people arriving (or trying to arrive) at that border is now at a 42 year LOW! I think that I will discard your "analysis" as flawed, but thank you for your ideas.

You left out when that decline started. Also, how that decline was initiated by a tougher border security policy. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39505999
It's funny how when an administration supports border patrol, ICE, DHS etc... they are then better able to do their jobs.

PS: even the border patrol chief, the incoming Attorney General, ICE etc... all agree we need a wall/barrier on the border!