Except what you said hasn't happened yet. Android besting the sales of a year old iPhone 3GS is nothing to write home about, and it certainly doesn't mean the iPhone has failed.

A three year old could have come up with your argument, it's nothing to write home about. Who would have thought that devices built by multpile manufacturers, and available through more carriers, but using the same OS could have more total sales volume than a device built by one manufacturer???

I do love how everyone is saying i was stating the obvious back then...
Yet not a single person (2 years ago) agreed with me.

You people are mentally handicapped.
Well i suppose that explains your love for the iPhone.

You still miss the point. It's not that the Galaxy sports a Super AMOLED display, or whatever. Google's app store sucks, the quality of the apps is substandard due to Android users not wanting to actually purchase apps, the phone still isn't an iPod - which is the best mp3 type device ever produced, and therefore it's not compatible with iTunes - the richest digital media outlet there is... It's the whole experience that's missing from the Android line of phones.

Then, Motorola shoves it's MotoBlur skinning on you, HTC has its Sense UI, Samsung has its own UI (TouchWiz?)... They are inconsistent. The experience when moving from a Motorola Android phone to a Samsung is quite different. Every one of those UI skins slows down the phones.

As it sits, Android phones continue to be a "me too" device, that lacks the entire ecosystem behind the product like the iPhone currently has. It also lacks the public perception and desire to own the product the way the iPhone does. The public holds its breath on new iPhone releases. There's barely a headline for a new Android phone release. There's a reason for that: The public wants the iPhone. They merely accept the Android copy cat.

Actually, I think we purchase plenty of apps. It's true that the offerings so far are not on-par with the App Store, but as soon as a well-made app is made available, people will buy it. As more and more developers are moving to port iOS apps to Android, I'm sure you'll start seeing a rise in the purchasing. It's mostly the quality games that we're all waiting for.

While it may not have as good of an ecosystem as the iPhone, the Android ecosystem does exist. And it continues to grow every day.

As for the headlines, I'm not sure if you've been watching TV, but here in the US, we get plenty of commercials for new Android releases. Verizon, Samsung, HTC, T-Mobile have all been making commercials. Hell, some of them look like teasers for a new movie that's coming out (see the X commercials). I'm sure other countries have their own commercials.

And the online news community makes a huge stink when new Android devices are made available as well. Everything from the blogs to the major news sites report on them and when they are released, review them and compare them to other devices.

Makes for a more interesting comparison. The figures are pretty close to the ones in the AI article. AIs data is from a different source and focus on YonY figures which don't show trends as quickly as quarterly comparisons, but the figures are quite close to be relevant in comparison.

It would seem (a very quick analysis and full of assumptions) that the real losers in the race going forward (if the trend continues) are old WinMo users (which would make sense until WinMo7 comes along) to some extent RIM and surprisingly Apple (not profit wise, but marketshare wise), which was a surprise to me when I encountered this graph for the first time.

I'm fully aware that iP4 will bump up Apple in Q3 like 3GS did last year, but is Apple's single product strategy and updates 1/year too little or too infrequent in the long run?

Interesting you say that seeing the iPhone is the only one getting bad press on a regular basis when it comes to hardware isssue. The Evo, Incredible and Droid X are build just was well as the iPhone. Also with 2.2 just released to the Evo is a very fast phone.

Android phones don't get bad press for manufacturing problems for the same reason people are hardly surprised when some hacker discovers a crucial Windows exploit

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

Android and a capacitive touch based phones existed before the iPhones conception. LG was the first to dip their toe in this area; developing their touch based phone at the end of 2004.

That may or may not be true ... I really don't know ... but even if true that only means that for 3 years the technology languished virtually unnoticed until Apple came along with iPhone in 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeshuawatso

Apple wasn't the first App Market as GetJar existed well before Apple came into the game.

Maybe, but who, besides you, ever heard of them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeshuawatso

The music industry is now heading from rampant piracy to rampant low margin digital downloads. While Apple has been instrumental into getting people to pay for music, they've accidentally killed the "big" music industry.

Low margins beats free pirated any day, in my mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yeshuawatso

Apple didn't create a single download application for all your music, they created the single download application for all your legal music.

I think they "created" the first, easy to use, business model that appealed to the masses ... something the music industry big boys are still fighting against as hard as they can behind the scenes.

My point is simply this ... whether Apple invents/creates something first or not simply doesn't matter. What matters is can they take an existing or new technology to another level .... and their past performance tells me that, more often than not, yes they can .... but that does not, by itself, insure dominant market share .... and that's ok with Apple. They'll just keep on keeping on ... making products and services that a whole lot of us love .... and making a pot load of money as well.

Blowing out another person's candle does not make our candle burn brighter - author unknown

As for the headlines, I'm not sure if you've been watching TV, but here in the US, we get plenty of commercials for new Android releases. Verizon, Samsung, HTC, T-Mobile have all been making commercials. Hell, some of them look like teasers for a new movie that's coming out (see the X commercials). I'm sure other countries have their own commercials.

And the online news community makes a huge stink when new Android devices are made available as well. Everything from the blogs to the major news sites report on them and when they are released, review them and compare them to other devices.

When Apple holds a press conference or an event of some kind, the financial world, electronic world, and everyone waits to see what they come out with next. Even if Motorola had such an event (do they?), it seems no one outside the Android community is really watching. There's a huge difference... Apple makes headlines everywhere about the new iPhone, even on Android blogs. When Samsung released the Galaxy? Very little.

You still miss the point. It's not that the Galaxy sports a Super AMOLED display, or whatever. Google's app store sucks, the quality of the apps is substandard due to Android users not wanting to actually purchase apps...

To me this is a "chicken and egg" situation. Until very, very recently (and I am talking basically this summer), a lot of the apps (particularly the games) sucked. There wasn't much that would compel me to whip out my wallet. Of course that situation then leads to complaints that Android users are cheap.

That is changing though. The stuff coming out now, particularly on the gaming side (I just bought Backbreaker and Skies of Glory), is solid stuff that people will probably pay for. I expect, you'll see the stats on this issue change very soon.

I'm looking at my Droid's 3.7" screen and you could have fooled me. I can see everything from Facebook updates to the weather, to what's on my calendar, to all the texts that have been sent to me (just a tiny sampling of what I have). If I need to add information, I can do it right from the that screen.

Yep. And that's not the iPhone. If the assertion is that Android copy the iPhone, then where's the widgets on iOS.

My prediction: You'll see it in iOS5.

The widgets are Dashboard Widgets that came in 10.4. Yes, Android copied, along with KDE and GNOME the concept of Dashboard Widgets which had a start also on Windows, but it all goes back to the original patent concept from APPLE.

I'm looking at my Droid's 3.7" screen and you could have fooled me. I can see everything from Facebook updates to the weather, to what's on my calendar, to all the texts that have been sent to me (just a tiny sampling of what I have). If I need to add information, I can do it right from the that screen.

All without having to find the icon to launch that particular app.

There's no doubt in my mind that Android is superior to iOS in certain areas. iOS, just like MacOS, is made to be simple. It's effective. Sorry, but Apple wrote the original book on an effective UI after extensive research.

If it was such an easy prediction why did not a single person in that old thread agree with me?
It seems obvious now... be cause it happened. Back then, in these forums no one agreed with me.

Maybe because none of us wanted to take the time to point out the obvious.
Would you be happy if I "predicted" that, in the next 5 years, we are going to see some really exciting stuff come along in the tech industry?

Blowing out another person's candle does not make our candle burn brighter - author unknown

When Apple holds a press conference or an event of some kind, the financial world, electronic world, and everyone waits to see what they come out with next. Even if Motorola had such an event (do they?), it seems no one outside the Android community is really watching. There's a huge difference... Apple makes headlines everywhere about the new iPhone, even on Android blogs. When Samsung released the Galaxy? Very little.

Even with what you perceive to be a small amount of news, plenty of people know about the devices they release. And it's not limited to the Android community. Tech blogs that cover all gambits of devices report on them. And again, there's plenty of commercials for their products on TV.

Do a Google search for Droid or Droid X or even the Galaxy S and tell me how many hits you come up with. While they may not gather "huge" coverage, they aren't completely ignored (like you imply) either.

There's no doubt in my mind that Android is superior to iOS in certain areas. iOS, just like MacOS, is made to be simple. It's effective. Sorry, but Apple wrote the original book on an effective UI after extensive research.

No arguements that iOS is effective. Just saying that widgets work really well on small screen devices.

Nope. You will always use PC's to hold data and manipulate that data. The mobile market is good, but it has limited use. The iPhone can't do spreadsheets very well, or draw a vector based drawing, render 3D scenes, or even surf very well. What it does is provide a good enough experience on the go.

That's the iPhone. An iPad on the other hand will probably we able to word processing and number crunching on spreadsheets well enough for all but a single digit percentage minority out there.

And even for data storage, I daresay that in short order people will find cloud based storage or simple plug in drives far more desirable than a whole PC. Keep in mind that it's only Apple prohibiting ports on the iPad. Android tablets will probably come with USB ports that let people plug into their terabyte drives to store all their media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruel24

PC's will never die. The fact is that most Windows PC makers are suffering because they've long been in a race to the bottom. As they all have competed to have cheaper and cheaper goods, they've made their quality cheaper and cheaper and therefore commoditized. There's little profit in them, and the quality is garbage: crappy TN based screens, plain unattractive cases, garbage keyboards and mice... There was a time when it was common to get a quality (then Trinitron) monitor, a good high-end Microsoft keyboard and mouse, etc. with your computer. Those days are gone.

Sure PCs won't die. Mainframes never did. But they'll become less and less relevant as time goes by. And it's precisely because of the phenomenon you pointed out. The commodification of PCs simply means there's more money to be made elsewhere (like in mobile computing).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruel24

Let's not get into the India based low-grade customer service you now get.

Being of Indian descent, I find this quite offensive and frankly racist. You have an issue with the support provided by a company, then blame company not the country where the support staff are based.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruel24

The difference between Apple and them is that Apple takes the high road. You get quality, excellent design, and a complete experience from beginning to end, and great US based customer service. But, this comes at a higher price. Apple offers unique products that they develop in-house from concept to execution that can't be had anywhere else. They make money by doing it.

It's like, sure you can own a Nissan 370Z and hot rod it to make it run fast, handle well, etc., but if you had the money, you'd rather have a Ferrari. Apple is that Ferrari - well thought out and executed from beginning to end - not just a bunch of parts.

Sure. But Apple is still relegated to single digit marketshare. Because, just like real life, not everybody needs, wants or can afford a Ferrari.

And there's a real possibility they risk the same outcome in the mobile space. Why? Because hardware price just isn't even that much of a differentiator any more. The phones bascially all cost the same. The hardware really isn't that much of a differentiator (is somebody to pick a phone solely on an extra 30 pixels per inch more?). The plans all cost the same. So now it comes down to features. And here there's some room for Apple to improve (particularly on their cloud services side). Counting on third parties to add functionality (like say mifi or navigation for example) or charging for functionality (email through mobileme) is kinda lazy and backwards don't you think?

Never said they were ignore. Just saying that the public goes "Oh, nice" when a new Android device is released, but "OH! WOW!!!" when a new iPhone is released. There is a big difference. Tech blogs like Engaget and Gizmondo, as well as Android specific blogs and some Linux blogs carry it. So too does some general media. But when an Apple event is held, EVERYONE is tuning in.

It doesn't matter if it's on the iPhone, iPad, Ubuntu, Windows, or the Mac. Fact is, Apple had them first, and really popularized them with the Dashboard in OS X. Android is merely copying...

Whatever floats your boat. Fine Android copied it. Now the question is, after 4 iterations of their mobile OS why has Apple not been able to implement their own 1984 technology on the platform?

And it's not like there's no demand for this stuff. People are jailbreaking just to get desktop/widget functionality. Don't tell me that if a facebook or twitter widget came out on the iPhone that pretty much every iPhone user would not have it installed over night.

I do love how everyone is saying i was stating the obvious back then...
Yet not a single person (2 years ago) agreed with me.

You people are mentally handicapped.
Well i suppose that explains your love for the iPhone.

bwhahahhahahaa

No one agreed with you because your reasoning was severely flawed. This is what you wrote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekeefe41

Here is what i believe; it is based on nothing more than my opinion.

The iPhone is a revolutionary new product.
So were the 1st GUI-based Macs.

The iPhone is tightly controlled by Apple.
So were the 1st GUI-Macs.

The iPhone will fail the same way the original Macs did because of the tight hardware/software control. People will stop looking at their cell phones as "phones" and see them for what they are... mini computers. Once people get a feel for a 'mini computer cell phone' that they can customize any way they like only having to pay for the data/voice plan. This market will be flipped on its head.

Apple is once again starting this tech revolution, but there game plan looks to be the same to me. They did lose the PC war you know.

While it was pretty easy to imagine a world where Android sales topped iPhone sales back then since you only had to look at how mac vs pc sales progressed (hence my 3 year old could do that comment), the reasons you stated were incorrect, and your definition of failure is even further off the mark. Considering that Apple is one of the most profitable computer manufacturers and the most profitable handset manufacturer, I think they are quite content with what you consider failure... It's no wonder people disagreed with you.

Never said they were ignore. Just saying that the public goes "Oh, nice" when a new Android device is released, but "OH! WOW!!!" when a new iPhone is released. There is a big difference. Tech blogs like Engaget and Gizmondo, as well as Android specific blogs and some Linux blogs carry it. So too does some general media. But when an Apple event is held, EVERYONE is tuning in.

That's what happens when you put out a phone once a year. If Apple was putting out handsets every few months, the press wouldn't be falling over themselves to cover it either. But, good for Apple for having PR and marketing savvy.

Never said they were ignore. Just saying that the public goes "Oh, nice" when a new Android device is released, but "OH! WOW!!!" when a new iPhone is released. There is a big difference. Tech blogs like Engaget and Gizmondo, as well as Android specific blogs and some Linux blogs carry it. So too does some general media. But when an Apple event is held, EVERYONE is tuning in.

While I'm sure all the Android OEMs would love to have that kind of attention, I don't think it's any reason to religate Android to the back burner. Every device that has come out has sold incredibly well so far.

However, when Google holds an event, they get the same reaction as an Apple event. They hold the heart and brains of Android. The OEMs just add the limbs.

Sorry to keep this detour going, Jetz. I'm going to stop it right here.

I doubt you'd see a significant shift even when the iPhone finally goes mult-carrier. I'd wager we'd only see a boost of roughly 3 million a quarter, which certainly wont be enough to unseat Android at the rate its going in terms of market share.

No, but combined with the iPhone 4's release, next quarter may be different. Plus, see below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 0yvind

I guess the iOS percentage doesn't include the iPod Touch or iPad (not even the 3G version), so if they were taken into account the map would look a bit different...

No, iPod Touch and iPad are not included - which is another reason the numbers are misleading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

Your theory is flawed. The Evo, Incredible and Droid X all cost exactly the same as the iPhone with a 2 year contract. The reality is people like Android.

Yes, some people like Android. But when you look at customer satisfaction rates, the iPhone is in the mid-90's while Android phones (all together since there isn't data for individual phones) is in the low 70s. I think a very large part of the recent success of Android was the fact that there just wasn't much of a decent alternative to the iPhone until recently. Now that there's something else to consider, a lot of people grabbed one to try it out (particularly the people who can't or won't use an iPhone for some reason). As they find out how clunky Android is (as evidenced by the poor user satisfaction ratings (rating), many of them are likely to switch to something else.

"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"Gatorguy 5/31/13

Whatever floats your boat. Fine Android copied it. Now the question is, after 4 iterations of their mobile OS why has Apple not been able to implement their own 1984 technology on the platform?

And it's not like there's no demand for this stuff. People are jailbreaking just to get desktop/widget functionality. Don't tell me that if a facebook or twitter widget came out on the iPhone that pretty much every iPhone user would not have it installed over night.

Did Apple realize there was a demand for it? Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.

The widgets are Dashboard Widgets that came in 10.4. Yes, Android copied, along with KDE and GNOME the concept of Dashboard Widgets which had a start also on Windows, but it all goes back to the original patent concept from APPLE.

And yet no lawsuit from the normally litigiously-minded Apple for all this apparent IP theft? Methinks Apple's lawyers and BOD are slipping if they are letting this one go.

While I'm sure all the Android OEMs would love to have that kind of attention, I don't think it's any reason to religate Android to the back burner. Every device that has come out has sold incredibly well so far.

However, when Google holds an event, they get the same reaction as an Apple event. They hold the heart and brains of Android. The OEMs just add the limbs.

Sorry to keep this detour going, Jetz. I'm going to stop it right here.

Yes, it is getting off-topic a bit. I'm not dismissing the Android platform at all. It's just that as things sit, it's inferior to the iPhone in many important ways. I'm convinced that if the iPhone gets announced in January for Verizon, you'll see a lot of wind leave the sails of Android. Many Android users are simply those that don't want AT&T and won't switch to own one. When it comes to their favorite carrier, I'm sure given a choice, most would prefer the iPhone - prices being equal.

I have some friends that have Android that we all play in a trivia league together. All 4 of them got excited when one of them said she heard that the iPhone was coming to Verizon. Her and the other 3 were crushed when I told them that this rumor was an ongoing thing for about 2 years now and it wasn't likely.

Did Apple realize there was a demand for it? Just because you can doesn't always mean you should.

Fair enough. Then I can guess their stick to their cat and mouse game with the Jailbreakers.

Come on, until recently people were jailbreaking to get customizable backgrounds. Jailbreaking, imo, is far more common on the iPhone than rooting on Android. And all that says is that users want those features. Apple should be working at putting them in. And widgets are after all optional. Nobody forces you to put them on your desktop. I fail to see the harm in adding this kind of functionality and how it's one of those, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should situations." If we were talking multi-tasking on the iPhone 2G, I would have agreed with you. For a Facebook widget, no so.

[QUOTE=jragosta;1695498]Yes, some people like Android. But when you look at customer satisfaction rates, the iPhone is in the mid-90's while Android phones (all together since there isn't data for individual phones) is in the low 70s. I think a very large part of the recent success of Android was the fact that there just wasn't much of a decent alternative to the iPhone until recently. Now that there's something else to consider, a lot of people grabbed one to try it out (particularly the people who can't or won't use an iPhone for some reason). As they find out how clunky Android is (as evidenced by the poor user satisfaction ratings (rating), many of them are likely to switch to something else.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is getting off-topic a bit. I'm not dismissing the Android platform at all. It's just that as things sit, it's inferior to the iPhone in many important ways. I'm convinced that if the iPhone gets announced in January for Verizon, you'll see a lot of wind leave the sails of Android. Many Android users are simply those that don't want AT&T and won't switch to own one. When it comes to their favorite carrier, I'm sure given a choice, most would prefer the iPhone - prices being equal.

I have some friends that have Android that we all play in a trivia league together. All 4 of them got excited when one of them said she heard that the iPhone was coming to Verizon. Her and the other 3 were crushed when I told them that this rumor was an ongoing thing for about 2 years now and it wasn't likely.

I disagree. The UK experience, I cited earlier says otherwise. Undoubtedly when the phone launches on Verizon, you'll get that large group that really wants iPhones that'll make the switch. However, over the longer term, I really doubt the iPhone is going to prove to be some kind of Android killer. It'll just slow it down. More speed bump, than road spikes.

Just look at markets where the iPhone is available on every carrier. Android market share keeps growing in all those markets.

As for your friends, watch what happens when the iPhone does launch on Verizon. Here in Canada, where it's available on every carrier, there's a very "Meh" factor. It's just not that cool any more to have an iPhone because so many people have one. And the carriers have all started promoting Android devices as differentiators. And they are actively promoting things like Google Navigation. That's what's keep Android growing. You'll have the same situation in the US. And just watch, only about half your friends in that group will actually make the jump when the time comes.

My point isn't to knock the iPhone its a very good phone and I like iOS better. My point is that Apple is no longer a premium product at least cost wise in the smartphone market. They all cost around the same with a 2 year contract.

Bingo. That said, I think Apple is best positioned among all the handset makers to position themselves as a premium and exclusive product. Just throw in a mobileMe subscription for free with any iOS device dammit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by extremeskater

Only time will tell in regards to satisfaction. As far as the experience I can tell you Android 2.2 which I just loaded on my Evo about a week ago is by far the fastest OS on the market right now and works extremely well.

I get the same impression. I think a lot of those who felt dissatisfied felt that way because they were using 1.5/1.6 handsets. Now that this segment of the user base is about 35% of Android's user base (as of August's stats) and falling fast, I think user satisfaction is going to go up. Especially as they discover features like voice-to-text. And once you get 2.2, well, that just feels like you got a brand new phone with features like mifi.

I doubt you'd see a significant shift even when the iPhone finally goes mult-carrier. I'd wager we'd only see a boost of roughly 3 million a quarter, which certainly wont be enough to unseat Android at the rate its going in terms of market share.

That sounds about right. Like others have said its funny to see Android with all of its many manufacturers finally unseat RIM and Apple who make only a small handful. Throw in the buy-one-get-one free from Verizon its a no brainer.

Android will definitely be the PC windows of the smart phone category. I am still waiting for the striped down $50 android phone. I am surprised no one has made one yet.

Fair enough. Then I can guess their stick to their cat and mouse game with the Jailbreakers.

Come on, until recently people were jailbreaking to get customizable backgrounds. Jailbreaking, imo, is far more common on the iPhone than rooting on Android. And all that says is that users want those features. Apple should be working at putting them in. And widgets are after all optional. Nobody forces you to put them on your desktop. I fail to see the harm in adding this kind of functionality and how it's one of those, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should situations." If we were talking multi-tasking on the iPhone 2G, I would have agreed with you. For a Facebook widget, no so.

This is no different than Motorola putting an iFuse in the Droid X and making life more complicated for rooters? Apple simply wants to maintain control.

I'm not going to dance around the fact that Apple has become so dominant for a time, that they've seemed to have become rather complacent. They haven't been so avante garde in the development of any of their products like they once were. They've become rather conservative, instead.

I agree they should be, at the very least, investigating these options.