When I graduated High School, I weighed 125 lbs, I was preppy & good-looking, and I had a nice car! I lived in a tough country town, and I fought 2
or 3 times per week, because I looked like an easy mark, and those country boys from other towns loved to test me! The kids in my own town already
knew better from grade school days. In Jr Highschool, I once had a vice-principle take me and another boy down to the gym and command us to fight it
out and quit screwing around.

That man understood teenage boys!

It all worked out for the best in the end, and I learned a lot of life lessons, and I taught a lot of life lessons!

I believe bullies are important to maturing kids. The bullies need to learn that not everything is what it seems, and they eventually learn respect
for their fellow man. The kids that get bullied learn ways of coping with bullies. They learn to stand up to them, even if they lose the fight, they
often win the war. They learn deflection techniques such as humor or intellect. They learn that physical confrontation is both better and worse than
they imagined.

The crackdown on natural rites of passage has led to kids completely ill-equipped to deal with the real world. We coddle and coddle and coddle, and
then at age 18 we toss them out into the world to sink or swim.

The world isn't fair. There are people that will manipulate and take advantage of you. There are bullies that come in many sizes, shapes, and
flavors. One bully that still haunts me is the "iceman" personality type. The busy-body that is a stickler for the intricate details of every rule
and loves to point out your most minor of mistakes. Since I'm more of a maverick character, those folks at my job just rub me the wrong way, while
also causing me immense trouble, but I can deal with it. We have to be able to deal with it. There are those other types of adults that are large
and over-bearing, and they expect to get their way just by invading your personal space and demanding your attention. They have learned it often
works for them, and they abuse it. Then there are those entitledness mindsets that think they can call your boss, or call your corporate office, or
threaten to get an attorney, and they often scare people into complying with their most ridiculous demands. Bullies are real, in the real world, and
you have to start learning to face them down one at a time. It is a much easier lesson at age 7, than it is at age 37!!

So, let's start letting our kids grow up organically. Let's let them experience some bullies and learn how to cope. Let's let some of them be
bullies and then let some skinny little redneck teach them the error of their ways. Let's start telling our teachers to not reward tattle-tale
behavior, and instead tell our children to be responsible and deal with the things within their control and ignore the things outside their
control.

Let's let our kids be kids and make our adults act like adults, and keep our police out of the schools, and our government out of our lives, and bury
political correctness under 10 tons of realism.

So, let's start letting our kids grow up organically. Let's let them experience some bullies and learn how to cope. Let's let some of them be
bullies and then let some skinny little redneck teach them the error of their ways. Let's start telling our teachers to not reward tattle-tale
behavior, and instead tell our children to be responsible and deal with the things within their control and ignore the things outside their
control.

Let's let our kids be kids and make our adults act like adults, and keep our police out of the schools, and our government out of our lives, and bury
political correctness under 10 tons of realism.

edit on 27-2-2012 by getreadyalready because: (no reason given)

I don't know how you were raised getreadyalready...but I was brought up as organic as organic gets....

I was cooked a wholesome, HIGHLY NUTRITIONAL breakfast, lunch and dinner EVERDAY for by my mother and very rarely tasted Mickey D's unless it was a
treat on the weekends....and even back then I preferred Wendy's because with Wendy's YOU KNOW WHEN ITS REAL!

My mother cooked full meals for her sons and worked a 40 hour a week career while raising hers.

Ok so what I'm getting here is that the youth of today are a bunch of cowards. unlike us who are older and much better.

Problem with that theory is that the kids of today are being raised by the older generation in the first place!

I think that blaming what happened at that school on cowardice is a lazy way that avoids thinking about ways to stop the killings which go on in the
US today. OP are you seriously suggesting that a paddling would have stopped this shooting? I ask you this because you sound like you live in the real
world and you are not fond of fantasy or wishful thinking.

I made a post in the other thread. I'm stunned that nobody even mentions that children should have restricted access to guns. No I don't blame the
kids really, I blame the grown ups, children just react to the society they live in and the school and home environment.

lol Sorry I couldn't resist....but yeah you are right. Only a coward has to use a gun unless he has no other choice to defend himself with. It does
seem like we never heard of school shootings until that columbine shooting happened. Here's a tip for bullying...Ignore them, act like it doesn't
bother you what so ever. Then if it turns to violence don't be afraid to talk to an elder like a teacher or a principal. They might call you a coward
for bringing them into it but who cares, it's you life afterall and you only have one chance.

It is very sad also that bullying leads to suicides, just if those kids would come up and say something to somebody it would never have to
happen.

Good post!
A lot has changed, I remember a day when not only every male member of my family carried a pocket knife they were expected to as was every other
male.
It wasn't weapon(unless in self defense), it was a tool with multiple uses.
Me I opt for a multi tool with 2 blades as it has multiple uses.
Now only me and one uncle carry a knife, and he only 1/2 the time at best.

I was sitting down to eat lunch on campus earlier this year and they put too many tape seals on the pizza pox so I pulled out my multi tool flipped my
thumb and cut it open and when to put it away as fast as I took it out.
That's when my friend grabbed my arm and said "put that away" they are on the safety patrol working with the campus cops and explained while not
illegal if I'm seen with it I might get observed for a period of time.
It's funny because it would have been away much sooner if they didn't stop me.
I've been stopped by campus cops before I tell them "run my ID I'm an Engineering and Physics student never know when I will need a screw driver or
pliers, the blade is attached and I can't control that".
Most of the time they smile and nod as they are happy with my loop hole but sometimes I get glared at.

It's sad society has become this way.

There are many things that need fixing.
Get rid of participation awards.
Kids are more apt to participate if they can actually win first place and feel proud of that.
No one wants to participate if the looser gets as much praise or more just for trying.
The looser will even try harder next time because they want to win.

Let kids get hurt, it's what they do.
The great part about them being so young is they heal fast really fast.
Anything that doesn't kill them will make them stronger and teach them a lesson.

Bring back punishments, not just cutting a switch which I've had to do(great psychological punishment in that)
Bring back the creative punishments as well such as dig a hole and smile or the modified version wash every dish pot pan etc... and smile.
After being forced to wash everything in the kitchen refusing to smile and doing it again I never said anything else was "womans work" again.
Now a days I'm sure Pa would have been in trouble for something making me do that.

Stop giving kids whatever they want whenever they want it.
You get gifts 2x a year anything in between I had to earn.

Deserts are a treat, a rare treat.
Pa grew up at the tail end of the depression and fruit was desert.
Sure I had ice cream but mostly fruit or home made things were desert and it was healthy!
When I went on my Senior trip to Italy in HS they gave us chilled fruit with sweetend cream for desert, everyone complained.
One of the bloody Chaperones threw a temper tantrum and complained to the hotel staff.
Being 18 and able to say so I reminded him we were guests, adults or almost adults, from a Christian school and that there was nothing wrong with
fruit for desert.
I than told him to STFU and be happy with the bounty he had.
Sure I got in trouble but a few other Chaperones privately thanked me for putting it in perspective.

How sad has society gotten when an adult whines over not having desert?

My generation and 1/2 a generation older and all those younger all need a kick in the rear and it needs to be hard enough to make us need to lay on
our stomach instead of sitting down.

Yeah I'm ranting and I'm trying not to at least for a while but I just had to.

This topic is great! and more people need to know we all need a kick in the rear.
If we don't do it to ourselves then soon it will be too late and we will see what it is like to be falling instead of rising.

OP are you seriously suggesting that a paddling would have stopped this shooting?

YES I AM!

Not the morning before the shooting, not even the day before, but administered over a lifetime, with concern for the child and not anger of course.
The whole point is to correct children when they are young so as they grow, they grow in the way they should. And before someone jumps on that
statement and accuses me of wanting to "control" children, I absolutely do want to control them to the extent that they don't shoot others! In that
respect, I will plead guilty.

Gotta run to work, but I promise to get back to this thread ASAP... some great ideas in here so far.

Why would you want a stranger at school to hit your kid? Teachers are some of the worst people I have ever met in the world. And I wouldn't want
someone I don't know hitting my kid.......

And spankings are still 100% legal, its the peoples fault for not knowing the law and defending themselves if brought into court.

People that fall victim to online bullying has no backbone, it is just pixels. Real life bullying is a bit different.

edit on 28-2-2012 by
RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Teachers are only doing their jobs....well TRYING to do their jobs. When I was in school it was common for someone to receive 2 tactile corrections
one from the teacher and you were sure to receive another one when you got home.

Society is too soft on children now-a-days and this is affecting their attitudes and demeanor. Corporal punishment should be reinstated in the
schools. If parents are willing to enforce it like back in my days then it would change their whole outlook towards crime and misbehavior. I know when
ever I came home from school with a sore rear-end I reflected HEAVILY on the error of my ways and how to comply next time and not get corporal
punished.

Sure. It might have. OR, even better, maybe if the parents and teachers had stepped back and let the bullied kids and the bullies work it out
naturally it would not have escalated to guns. 10 nerds can beat up 2 bullies, it used to happen all the time!

A trumpet makes a pretty good
weapon, and even among the jocks and rockers, there will be some good-hearted kids that will stand up for the weaker individuals and not let their
friends continue to bully.

So, paddling at a very young age would have been an improvement, but even at a later age, letting kids be kids and learn their own coping mechanisms
and responsibilities would have been an improvement and could likely have prevented the tragedy.

You still didn't answer why you would feel comfortable letting a stranger hit your kid.

If you think spankings in childhood stops someone from becoming a criminal then I don't know what to say to you. Do you really think inner-city
parents don't hit their kids?

And every generation complains about the new generations youth. Your generation was nothing special or in any form better than this one.

edit
on 28-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

First of all a teacher is not a stranger. A teacher is a licensed public official who holds the public's trust. Yes I would trust a teacher in making
the decision of when to apply corporal punishment to my child's rear-end for disciplinary measures.

In my days a teacher would take time out of their personal schedule and travel to your home and talk to your parents if they thought you were a
student worth the time saving. I appreciated the two visits from my Jr. high school teacher Ms. Rodriguez when I was getting a tad bit "unruly". She
apparently saw my potential in life and knew that I was going to make something out of my life. Ms. Rodriguez also applied the mighty paddle to my
rear-end.

She knew I was a leader and not a crowd-follower...these are attributes that teachers see in their students.

I never said that "spankings" in childhood stops someone from becoming a criminal...that is what A PROPER HOME RAISING PREVENTS. If your family is
nothing more than crooks, thieves, liars and rift-rafts then guess what your chances are of becoming the same?

The HOME ELEMENT plays into character building, corporal punishment has only saved those asses whom it warmed up only because of HOME RAISING not due
ONLY to the application of force.

You would be surprised at how many INNER-CITY youths are brought up without tactile correction. I do not know where you live but here in the U.S. if
you attempt to even raise your hand at YOUR CHILD anyone including your child can call 911 and the parent will be held accountable.

I remember a time when my brother was getting physically corrected by my mother and he told her that he was going to call child services on my
mother...my mother handed him the telephone and dialed them for him and handed him the phone...needless to say he hung it up very promptly.

I know that my generation is better than this one is, and it is due to LOVE whether it came in the form of tough love via an ass-whooping or nurturing
love via a hug and moral praise and acknowledgment it was still the same.

Anyhow...no COWARDS came out of my household!

I know how to handle myself in any situation and I know right from wrong and the various shades of grey that divides the two. Child rearing is not a
science and thus one model cannot be applied to all children due to the different cuts of cloth.

Corporal punishment is a disciplinary action that once applied properly opens up certain mental facilities and pushes the "grand reset" button and
re-alignes ones behavior to those LOST TEACHINGS that MY GENERATION was the last to be taught.

My generation royally trumps this generation on General Principle alone and I have not even spoken on the other factors.

You still didn't answer why you would feel comfortable letting a stranger hit your kid.

If you think spankings in childhood stops someone from becoming a criminal then I don't know what to say to you. Do you really think inner-city
parents don't hit their kids?

And every generation complains about the new generations youth. Your generation was nothing special or in any form better than this one.

edit
on 28-2-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)

Yes, I'd be comfortable with a stranger swatting my kid, if there was a good reason, and if it was done as part of a bigger lesson. NO, I would
never allow anyone to just strike my kid in anger.

As for the inner-city parents. Beatings are not sufficient by themselves. There needs to be two involved parents, some family stability, and
interest and involvement in the kid's life, and the beatings need to be few and far between, and always be attached to an important life lesson.

One of my very best friends was raised in the inner-city, by his grandmother, and he got the good kind of beatings from her, but before that, he got
the bad kind of beatings from his worthless mother and father. He used the lessons from his grandmother, and some good support from friends, and he
wound up getting a college education, and now he is a mature 30 year old man, and his worthless father still treats him like he wants to just be
buddies and hangout in the hood. He has outgrown his family by far, and he has helped put his younger sister through college as well.

The inner city problem is much, much deeper than just beating or not beating, it is a whole cultural problem, and it isn't unique to black people, it
is also common in rural white areas and among other minority immigrant populations.

Don't get the two issues twisted. There is the cultural problem affecting some populations, and then there is the widespread political correctness
and entitlement problem affecting the entire population.

That is part of the problem.
Children should be punished I was punished.
There was a reason why Ma had my Aunts and Uncles help raise me.
She knew if they were punishing me it would not be out of anger.
Taking a second to cool down before punishing a kid or having a family member do it if necessary is fine.
It's when kids are hit in anger that problems occur and that's on the parent they need to control themselves they are freaking adults.

We do need to empower teachers to do more and stop punishing the good ones with suspensions for actually trying to help a child.
I had a Coach/teacher who put me to work, not just janitorial work but work that tired me out to the point where I went home and passed out.
I didn't realize it at the time, but he took an interested and found busy work for me to do just to keep me out of trouble.
Eventually I did my job so well that I was hired above the table.

It takes a village to raise a kid, a strong family and good teachers, and discipline and love along the way.

Corporeal punishment, and giving the kids busy work would probably cut those numbers down as well.
The difference between shootings and huffing is one is choosing to do something dangerous the others just showed up to school and were mowed down.

A teacher is a stranger. You do not know them. Just because they have a license doesn't mean anything. As you can see there are teachers that have
sexual relations with their students. The license didn't stop anything.

And again spanking your child is not illegal. If you do not present the code/law and defend yourself in court then it is your fault, with this day
and age of Google and online databases. You can't expect the legal system to be pure and not corrupt, you have to uphold it.

I got hit as a child, it didn't do anything to me, clearly, because I got hit multiple times. Your theory is wrong, you cannot generalize a whole
generation or way of parenting.

It seems to me our society's sense of propriety and ways to raise children has been slowly eroded over time, by someone, on purpose. I don't know
what end they seek to achieve. Possibly they mean to turn our society into some socialist Utopia. The strongest-minded person can be eroded and
changed over time by a ceaseless barrage of attacks by a really malevolent, determined group or individual.

To be honest you can't say that, as you have no idea whether it would have worked or not.

But I do find the 'concern for the child' part interesting. Is the concern for the child as important as the paddling? One can't work without the
other? Thats the usual concensus anyway. So its interesting that
1. you are presuming that the kids involved had not been beaten by their family
2. that you are implying that concern for the child (ie we are talking about love / care / understanding here) was already given but didn't work.

Do you think that paddling is more important than the concern for the child bit? Or do you think that the psychological aspects of behaviour can be
remidied by brute force better than through communication?

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