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RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The DLE20 is lighter than 120AX including ignition ...... 840g. all included the DLE vs. 860g. the 120 AX , both with muffler.

Regards

Okay, I have to call FOUL on this one!

Your wrong on the weights of the OS 120 AX!....
The muffler doesn't weight 7 oz!.... or 219 g. maybe IF you use ALL the extensions, parts of the muffler but no need.
I know, because I weighed mine couple years ago with a calibrated 200$ mail scale...
(sold the scale no need for it)
And no way does a 20cc gas engine With a walbro carb, ignition weigh in LESS than 32oz!....NO WAY!....
BME has a ST 15cc engine that weighs in at 26oz (not sure if it includes muffler) and the AX 120 (20cc) is only 2oz more than the ST .90....(15cc)

The OS is very lightweight for a 1.20 size engine...

My guess, is the DLE 20cc weighs in at 34oz with muffler, excluding ignition battery.

If they have got that engine to weigh in at 23oz like you claim....
Those bearings must be plastic....

Time will say the true.
I think you're writing your thinking or what you hope or wishes. But the reallity doesn't lies.
See the picture above:
If you think the picture is false, you don't know me, i'm in honour and very well know in my country.
Engine with front washer and nuts (two nuts), spark plug, ignition complete, muffler with bolts and gasket, two security connectors holders, the inside spring for spark plug cap, and two small plastic bags, and one glassfiber lever for throttle lever with nut.
NOT ONLY less than 32oz , LESS THAN 30oz ( read my post). I've NEVER SAID 23 oz

According to Tower Hobbies, OS manual , and one OS120AX new from the box, on the same scale, with muffler : Weight of engine: 22.82oz (647g) without muffler,extension or adaptor (the OS user manual says 20.88, but doesn't matter)
Weight of muffler: 7.074oz (219.2g) with 90Â° adapter installed
Weight of muffler: 7.907oz (245g) with extension installed
A simple calculation gives 22.82 + 7.074 = 29.89 MORE THAN 29.50 seen on the scale, and withouth the muffler extension OS supplies with the engine.
I don't kwnow why you use the word FOUL against my post. Maybe you're acting as a juzge , but without evidences.

About performance with supplied mufflers , tomorrow i will test and show some videos with rpm numbers .....

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: mpascual

sorry,,,

No need to say sorry, you do very well in getting the right data for people. Most people do not realize that you have been a engine man from a young man & still are. I myself really enjoy the videos of many engines you placed on YouTube. Thanks for doing this. Best Regards to another motor head!!! Capt,n

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: captinjohn

ORIGINAL: mpascual

sorry,,,

No need to say sorry, you do very well in getting the right data for people.Â* Most people do not realize that you have been a engine man from a young man & still are.Â* I myself really enjoy the videos of many engines you placed on YouTube. Thanks for doing this.Â* Best Regards to another motor head!!!Â*Â* Capt,n

Thanks for your words captinjohn.
English is not my language, and maybe my sentences are not well wrotten. I try to explain my best my experience with engines, but i'm not seller and i don't have stocks of DLE.
But some people talk and write about new engines ONLY from a picture. At least i write after having one unit and some test ... and after having repaired hundreds of RC model engines.
I'm not guilty for obtain some engines from manufacturers before they are on sale. Maybe manufacturers are confident with my work.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: albsurfer

I can see a place for a 20CC gasser, but most planes aren't set up to take the weight. I would love to get a few .60 size planes and put a gas motor in them. The .46-.50 size birds could use them too. 4S motors are pretty expensive, but they are light in weight. The MLD28cc will over-power a .60 warbird into a high speed flying monster! It has to be reinforced to do it. You can't get a bird that is light in construction to put a gasser into. The weight of a gasser has to be improved more before they will become popular with the average person, especially in the 15-28CC market. The price needs to stay low. The few NItro to Gas conversions out there are pretty expensive when you think of the horsepower reduction and added engine/ignition/battery setup.

Whoa there partner, what are you talking about. The saving in fuel weight more than makes these engines work.

My experience with over 350 hours on my Zenoah 20ccei (I consider it a brick at 38ozs) in a .60 size plane, but, it is not.

In an 7-8 pound airplane the flying weight is bumped up only 5 ozs when you carry the same full throttle gas supply (12-15 minutes). Plus you can carry that fuel on the CG. My Zenoah has a steel muffler that weighs 6 ozs, and an ignition module that is filled with some sort of epoxy. Yet it flies better than any 60 or 90 FS glow I've flown.

Knock off 3 ozs for the aluminum muffler and and 2 ozs for a nice ignition and these really start to look good. The Zenoah is piston port, this thing has reeds (more power). A couple of blocks of wood and a little glue for reinforcements only add grams of weight. In exchange you get torque, sound, fuel economy and way cool factor.

If this engine meets its claims (which I have no doubt) it is going to come and smack you in the mouth. You could not be more misinformed.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: kmeyers

ORIGINAL: albsurfer

I can see a place for a 20CC gasser, but most planes aren't set up to take the weight. I would love to get a few .60 size planes and put a gas motor in them. The .46-.50 size birds could use them too. 4S motors are pretty expensive, but they are light in weight. The MLD28cc will over-power a .60 warbird into a high speed flying monster! It has to be reinforced to do it. You can't get a bird that is light in construction to put a gasser into. The weight of a gasser has to be improved more before they will become popular with the average person, especially in the 15-28CC market. The price needs to stay low. The few NItro to Gas conversions out there are pretty expensive when you think of the horsepower reduction and added engine/ignition/battery setup.

Whoa there partner, what are you talking about. The saving in fuel weight more than makes these engines work.

My experience with over 350 hours on my Zenoah 20ccei (I consider it a brick at 38ozs) in a .60 size plane, but, it is not.

In an 7-8 pound airplane the flying weight is bumped up only 5 ozs when you carry the same full throttle gas supply (12-15 minutes). Plus you can carry that fuel on the CG. My Zenoah has a steel muffler that weighs 6 ozs, and an ignition module that is filled with some sort of epoxy. Yet it flies better than any 60 or 90 FS glow I've flown.

Knock off 3 ozs for the aluminum muffler and and 2 ozs for a nice ignition and these really start to look good. The Zenoah is piston port, this thing has reeds (more power). A couple of blocks of wood and a little glue for reinforcements only add grams of weight. In exchange you get torque, sound, fuel economy and way cool factor.

If this engine meets its claims (which I have no doubt) it is going to come and smack you in the mouth. You could not be more misinformed.

You have a valid point about the difference in fuel weight. A 4S won't be much of a difference compared to gas in that respect. I have a few flying buddies who've traded 4S for gas in recent times. One only buys 20cc Zenoah for his .60 size planes for reliability, but does say that the smaller engines are bricks and I have flown one of his planes, so I can agree with his comment. His favourite Zenoah is the 38CC, flown in larger planes than .60. It does fly very well. I have corresponded with a couple of manufacturers who make light-weight .46-.90 class Extras & Edges. They emphatically said NOT to use any of the presently available 20CC -28CC gas engines. Why? Because A. the airframes will break because they are built light. B. The present gas engines will not perform as well as a good nitro engine in the smaller planes. C. The added weight into the aerobatic frames will take away from the airframe's design performance. D. The present warbirds in those classes are going to be NOSE HEAVY and will tend to tip over on landing (I have personally seen this). Now, that said, two of my flying buddies told me not to use Zenoahs in anything except an easy-flier that I basically want to fly standard field patterns with and no IMAC or 3D aerobatics with. I don't fly 3D, they were just warning me. Their advice at that point was to buy a 4S. Both of them have at least 25 years in the hobby apiece. So... I'm pretty sure that I can trust their advice, along with the others who've given up nitro and gone to gas. Smaller Zenoah engine weight vs lack of power in smaller planes is well documented in other forums on RCU, and a few other forums. I do hope that this DLE 20 CC performs as advertised. I will probably buy one and use it in a STANDARD airframe, or one that I have BEEFED up, UNLESS a GAS engine is SPECIFICALLY listed as an option on that kit (meaning it was DESIGNED for gas, also).

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Well I can say that I have a G-20 in a Seagull Yak and yes she is heavier than the glow setup that was in it, but it flys great! I do 3D and while this is not the best 3D plane because of the weight the engine has the power to do it. Just requires more concentration. Now take this DLE 20cc that is at least 10ozs lighter than the G-20 and looks to be stronger WOW!! I will have to try one just to see how it will perform. I have a few planes, warbirds as well, that I would love to have gas in...and this just may be the ticket!

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

I have a G-20 in my GP RV-4. It is heavier than when the .90 OS 4s was in it but the wing loading is so light that still flies as light as it did before. I would love to have the DLE 20 in it to lighten it up and have amazing power.
I will be purchasing one as soon as they are available.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: albsurfer

skillet92, what's your AUW w/the G20 & what prop are you using to 3D? I am looking into the Seagull Edge 540 60 and put a 20CC in it. Thanks.

I am at 10lbs and 10ozs. I have a pitts muffler and the original ignition. I also have the heavy original landing gear. I use a 16x6 for flying and that works great with that engine! Never had an issue. I could save some weight and get her closer to 10lbs if I made some changes but at the moment she flys and lands nicely! BTW I have the 90 size Seagull yak.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

When i tested the Zenoah ZG20 EI for a spanish magazine, i got 7.700 rpm with a 17x8N APC nylon propeller. Also when i translated the user manual from Tony Clark to spanish language, the rpm data , says 7.700 rpm with APC 17x8N, when engine was finished the break-in.
Today with a SY 17x8N, a chinese propeller with same load than APC17x8N (narrow) , THIS BEAST gives 7.800 after warm-up and no needles adjust (on his first min. of running time) , AND 8.200 rpm , same result as Jody got , after 1 hour of break-in.
No tilt & dead issues

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

Has anyone noticed that Jody claims 8500RPM an an SY 16x8, and Zenoah claims 8900RPM on an APC 16x8. According to Pe's chart, that means it's got 87% the power of the G26 (assuming that the SY and the APC have the same prop load). That's pretty good. I'm excited to get a DLE20....and a plane that requires one .

If DLE makes a DLE10 half as impressive as this, I can see the end of glow sooner than I had ever thought before.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

The engine looks like it does quite well for it's class.
300-400 RPMS Less, However is quite-a-bit difference when comparing props and 2-stroke glow/ to 2-stroke gasoline.
A 4-stroke shouldn't be compared to a 2-stoke in RPM figures.. quite different power.

Yep...32oz and NOT including the Muffler... It is a very doable weight.
The SAP 180 weighs in at 32oz INCLUDING THE muffler, but not the ignition and is a 30cc.
Igniton weigh around 200gr??

The issue is the NOise....for me....I like to be able to fly smaller planes with glow power
at the local soccer field..
THat stock muffler would get me thrown out of there soo quick.
That is a simple fix though
.

Do you have a Os 1.20 AX to weigh with the muffler?
What does the ignition weigh on the DLE 20???

It looks like a nice engine..But it isn't going to rewrite the book of Internal combustion Engines...

That is for the Americans to do....and the Chineese to copy, Later..
(Just kidding!)
Yet it will very popular for many.....and sell lots of them...be very successfull.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: jedijody

Believe what you want but you have never held one in your Â*hand, put one on a scale, or ran one with a digital tach connected and measured it'sÂ*thrust. I have and I don't lie, my reputation speaks for itself. I'd prove it right now with pictures but you probably would think I faked them too, besides I'm leaving now to go racing, see you Monday.

BTW the DLE20 spins an APCÂ*17x8 @ 8200 and pulls out 14lbs. 9 oz. of thrust with the stock exhaust, no help from a pipe. Also I didn't compare it to an OS 1.20 AX, I compared it to a Saito 1.25 and a CRRC Pro 26, it kicks both of their butts and it looks like it would give the OS a run for it's money too! [img][/img]

I was incorrect in my rpms.. on the 1.20 Ax...
IT is 9,800 RPM's APC 17x8 with a muffled pipe.

RE: NEW DLE 20cc Gasser! (Data & Links 1st Post)

ORIGINAL: Whistling Death

I have a G-20 in my GP RV-4. It is heavier than when the .90 OS 4s was in it but the wing loading is so light that still flies as light as it did before. I would love to have the DLE 20 in it to lighten it up and have amazing power.
I will be purchasing one as soon as they are available.

I have a G20 from Ralph that weighs 34 ozs which includes a lightweight muffler and RC exl igniton that is an absolute blast in a 60 size Big Stick at approx. 9.0 lbs. I can't wait to get one of the DLE 20's which I really think is going to make some nitro engine manufacturers start shaking in their boots as from all indications it's going to be a gas bomb in a very small package.