After Officer Lawrence DePrimo knelt beside a barefoot man on a bitterly cold November night in Times Square, giving him a pair of boots, a photo of his random act of good will quickly took on a life of its own — becoming a symbol for a million acts of kindness that go unnoticed every day and a reminder that even in this tough, often anonymous city, people can still look out for one another.

Officer DePrimo was celebrated on front pages and morning talk shows, the Police Department came away with a burnished image and millions got a smile from a nice story.

But what of the shoeless man?

For days, his bare feet — blistered and battered — were well known. Yet precise details about him proved elusive.

His name is Jeffrey Hillman, and on Sunday night, he was once again wandering the streets — this time on the Upper West Side — with no shoes.Video: After officer’s gift, homeless man ‘lit up like it was Christmas’ (on this page)

The $100 pair of boots that Officer DePrimo had bought for him at a Sketchers store on Nov. 14 were nowhere to be seen.

“Those shoes are hidden. They are worth a lot of money,” Mr. Hillman said in an interview on Broadway in the 70s. “I could lose my life.”Advertise | AdChoices

Mr. Hillman, 54, was by turns aggrieved, grateful and taken aback by all the attention that had come his way — even as he struggled to figure out what to do about it.

“I was put on YouTube, I was put on everything without permission. What do I get?” he said. “This went around the world, and I want a piece of the pie.”

He did not recall the photo being taken but remembered well the gift from Officer DePrimo. “I appreciate what the officer did, don’t get me wrong,” he said. “I wish there were more people like him in the world.”

At another point he said: “I want to thank everyone that got onto this thing. I want to thank them from the bottom of my heart. It meant a lot to me. And to the officer, first and foremost.”

Cop who bought shoes for homeless man 'really didn't think about the money'

Mr. Hillman said he came to New York about a decade ago and had been on the streets most of that time. He moves about Manhattan, he said, not frequenting any particular neighborhood. On Sunday, he was making his way from the Upper West Side to Times Square.

If it rained, he added, he might seek refuge on a train.

Mr. Hillman said he was from South Plainfield, N.J. He said he joined the Army in 1978 and served as a “food service specialist” in the United States and Germany.

He produced a worn veteran’s identification card that confirmed his service.

Mr. Hillman said that he was honorably discharged after five years and that before he became homeless he worked in kitchens in New Jersey.

He has two children — Nikita, 22, and Jeffrey, 24 — but has had little contact with them since a visit three years ago, Mr. Hillman said.

He was reluctant to talk about how he ended up on the streets, staring blankly ahead when asked how his life went off course.

After a long pause, he shook his head and said, “I don’t know.”

Since Mr. Hillman’s bare feet became famous, other people reported seeing him without shoes — one even after Officer DePrimo’s gift — and one woman said she had bought him a pair of shoes a year ago. Whatever the case, Mr. Hillman seemed accustomed to walking the pavement shoeless.

He was panhandling on Sunday night and carried a cup with a few coins inside.

The story seemed to dominate the city’s attention late last week. Speaking of Officer DePrimo on his radio program last week, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said, “That’s what they’re trained to do — help people.”

Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly expressed his appreciation by giving Officer DePrimo a pair of department cuff links during a private meeting on Thursday.

More US stories from NBC News

Officer DePrimo, 25, who lives with his parents in Suffolk County, rocketed to national attention after the Police Department posted the photo of him and Mr. Hillman, taken by an Arizona tourist, on its Facebook page.

On Sunday, Mr. Hillman was spotted by Jamie Seerman and her sister Samantha near 79th Street and Broadway as they were shopping for a Christmas tree.

As he was being interviewed, several people noticed him.

“What happened to the boots?” one man asked.

J. David Goodman contributed reporting.

I love the entitlement attitude... "I want a piece of the pie..." For what? For accepting a gift? For being the degenerate that allowed the officers charity? For being posted on a "free" website?

And the "boots are hidden"... Yea right, he sold 'em for crack. I find it hilarious that these aren't the only shoes that have been bought for him in the last couple of years.

This isn't a problem you can "throw money at" and it will go away. You can't buy these people enough for them to "have" something. This is no different than the "guy with the voice," who returned to his life on the streets after not being able to kick his drug habit.

December 3rd, 2012, 1:19 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I love the entitlement attitude... "I want a piece of the pie..." For what? For accepting a gift? For being the degenerate that allowed the officers charity? For being posted on a "free" website?

And the "boots are hidden"... Yea right, he sold 'em for crack. I find it hilarious that these aren't the only shoes that have been bought for him in the last couple of years.

This isn't a problem you can "throw money at" and it will go away. You can't buy these people enough for them to "have" something. This is no different than the "guy with the voice," who returned to his life on the streets after not being able to kick his drug habit.

First off, not sure why this post is directed at me..but, um..ok

Secondly, can I borrow your crystal ball? I'd like to know what the upcoming lottery numbers are going to be. I mean, after all, considering as you know EXACTLY what the man did with the boots, then you must have one, right? Or, you know, you can just keep projecting your prejudices...

If you haven't learned by now that there are all types of people in the world, than I'm not sure what to tell you. There will always be people that need help, so because of this person you'd rather not help any? Did you honestly think that a pair of boots was going to solve all this person's ills?

As I have tried to say all along, each and every one of us is related. We are ALL blood to each other. It saddens me that we, as a society, still look down on others and treat them as dirt. These are humans, just like you and me, and yet we continue to treat them as though they're not good enough. Personally speaking, I know that I wasn't raised that way, perhaps maybe others were. I was always taught to treat others as I wanted to be treated. Now, if I hit hard times would I want someone to laugh at me, throw stuff at me, call me a 'bum, loser, idiot, worthless, etc'? Does that really need an answer?

Quote:

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself

Quote:

Judge not, lest ye be judged

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

December 3rd, 2012, 2:59 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I love the entitlement attitude... "I want a piece of the pie..." For what? For accepting a gift? For being the degenerate that allowed the officers charity? For being posted on a "free" website?

And the "boots are hidden"... Yea right, he sold 'em for crack. I find it hilarious that these aren't the only shoes that have been bought for him in the last couple of years.

This isn't a problem you can "throw money at" and it will go away. You can't buy these people enough for them to "have" something. This is no different than the "guy with the voice," who returned to his life on the streets after not being able to kick his drug habit.

First off, not sure why this post is directed at me..but, um..ok

Secondly, can I borrow your crystal ball? I'd like to know what the upcoming lottery numbers are going to be. I mean, after all, considering as you know EXACTLY what the man did with the boots, then you must have one, right? Or, you know, you can just keep projecting your prejudices...

If you haven't learned by now that there are all types of people in the world, than I'm not sure what to tell you. There will always be people that need help, so because of this person you'd rather not help any? Did you honestly think that a pair of boots was going to solve all this person's ills?

As I have tried to say all along, each and every one of us is related. We are ALL blood to each other. It saddens me that we, as a society, still look down on others and treat them as dirt. These are humans, just like you and me, and yet we continue to treat them as though they're not good enough. Personally speaking, I know that I wasn't raised that way, perhaps maybe others were. I was always taught to treat others as I wanted to be treated. Now, if I hit hard times would I want someone to laugh at me, throw stuff at me, call me a 'bum, loser, idiot, worthless, etc'? Does that really need an answer?

Quote:

One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself

Quote:

Judge not, lest ye be judged

I directed the post at you because you seem to be of the ideology that the best way to solve inner-city problems is to throw money at them. You seem to think that taxing the rich and giving more to the poor, that is, distributing more to the poor will somehow solve our problems or better our society. You seem to have this idea in your head that everyone wants to succeed and if you just "help them" out they will.

If the boots got stolen, he would have said he got robbed. He didn't "hide" them and choose to walk around the streets without them, I can tell you that for certain. He didn't sell them for food, you can get every meal every day of the week in NY for free at various food banks (FWIW, you can get every meal EXCEPT for lunch on Sundays for free in Detroit at the various food banks), but you don't want to face the reality that in two days this dood smoked his boots in some form or another.

I'm not projecting any prejudices, I'm just telling you what happened. I agree that we're "all related," ALL brothers, etc., but YOU don't realize that you can't help some people. That it doesn't matter how much you give certain people, they'll still be "needy." I don't look down on this guy, and I don't judge him. He's living the life he WANTS to lead. He's CHOOSING to be on the streets, shoeless, living a care-free existence. My only issue is with people like you that think it's somehow beneficial to throw millions of dollars at them and ENABLE their decision to be a drag on society.

December 3rd, 2012, 3:50 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I directed the post at you because you seem to be of the ideology that the best way to solve inner-city problems is to throw money at them. You seem to think that taxing the rich and giving more to the poor, that is, distributing more to the poor will somehow solve our problems or better our society. You seem to have this idea in your head that everyone wants to succeed and if you just "help them" out they will.

Really? Where did I say just throw them money and all will be fine? Please go search for it. I'll wait.....

wjb21ndtown wrote:

If the boots got stolen, he would have said he got robbed. He didn't "hide" them and choose to walk around the streets without them, I can tell you that for certain. He didn't sell them for food, you can get every meal every day of the week in NY for free at various food banks (FWIW, you can get every meal EXCEPT for lunch on Sundays for free in Detroit at the various food banks), but you don't want to face the reality that in two days this dood smoked his boots in some form or another.

Could he have sold them? Absolutely, and likely did. However IMO you projected your prejudice when you said he sold it for crack. Again, it is possible, however unless you sold it to him I doubt that you know for certain.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'm not projecting any prejudices, I'm just telling you what happened.

You were there? or perhaps knew someone that was there? Again, projection...

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I agree that we're "all related," ALL brothers, etc., but YOU don't realize that you can't help some people. That it doesn't matter how much you give certain people, they'll still be "needy." I don't look down on this guy, and I don't judge him. He's living the life he WANTS to lead. He's CHOOSING to be on the streets, shoeless, living a care-free existence.

I realize well enough that you can only help those who help themselves; prolly know it more than most people. But does that mean we stop trying to help? That you just write off someone? Maybe its not time for them to be helped; timing is key in a great many things: help, guidance just being a couple of them.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

My only issue is with people like you that think it's somehow beneficial to throw millions of dollars at them and ENABLE their decision to be a drag on society.

Again, don't believe I said anything of the sort...I'll wait for your proof (tho not holding my breath)

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

December 3rd, 2012, 4:05 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I directed the post at you because you seem to be of the ideology that the best way to solve inner-city problems is to throw money at them. You seem to think that taxing the rich and giving more to the poor, that is, distributing more to the poor will somehow solve our problems or better our society. You seem to have this idea in your head that everyone wants to succeed and if you just "help them" out they will.

Really? Where did I say just throw them money and all will be fine? Please go search for it. I'll wait.....

wjb21ndtown wrote:

If the boots got stolen, he would have said he got robbed. He didn't "hide" them and choose to walk around the streets without them, I can tell you that for certain. He didn't sell them for food, you can get every meal every day of the week in NY for free at various food banks (FWIW, you can get every meal EXCEPT for lunch on Sundays for free in Detroit at the various food banks), but you don't want to face the reality that in two days this dood smoked his boots in some form or another.

Could he have sold them? Absolutely, and likely did. However IMO you projected your prejudice when you said he sold it for crack. Again, it is possible, however unless you sold it to him I doubt that you know for certain.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I'm not projecting any prejudices, I'm just telling you what happened.

You were there? or perhaps knew someone that was there? Again, projection...

wjb21ndtown wrote:

I agree that we're "all related," ALL brothers, etc., but YOU don't realize that you can't help some people. That it doesn't matter how much you give certain people, they'll still be "needy." I don't look down on this guy, and I don't judge him. He's living the life he WANTS to lead. He's CHOOSING to be on the streets, shoeless, living a care-free existence.

I realize well enough that you can only help those who help themselves; prolly know it more than most people. But does that mean we stop trying to help? That you just write off someone? Maybe its not time for them to be helped; timing is key in a great many things: help, guidance just being a couple of them.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

My only issue is with people like you that think it's somehow beneficial to throw millions of dollars at them and ENABLE their decision to be a drag on society.

Again, don't believe I said anything of the sort...I'll wait for your proof (tho not holding my breath)

What is your plan, other than social welfare, to help them then? Every time a social issue seems to come up about cutting "entitlements" you seem to say that "as a just society, blah blah blah..."

Tell me you're against food stamps, welfare, section 8 housing, etc. ALL of those things just "throw money" at the problem. You don't say "just throw money at them," but whenever anyone talks about taking money out of that pot you chime in against it.

So, you admit that he sold the boots, but now want to quibble over what he sold them for... Food? No, he gets that for free. Rent? He doesn't have rent, he lives on the street. Electricity? Gas bill? Uhmmm nope... Donated the money to charity? Nope, don't think that's it...

The only real thing he could have sold them for is alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes, all of which are "drugs."

You definitely stop helping them, or at least don't help them "more." Welfare use to be a pain in the rectum (I know I waited in the lines at 4 years old... I waited 2 hours for a few blocks of cheese, flour, powdered milk, condensed milk, peanut butter, and oatmeal), now they literally give you what amounts to a credit card to go "play" with willy-nilly, and they wonder why it's abused. The "more" you help these people the more you enable their lifestyle, period.

December 3rd, 2012, 4:39 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

What is your plan, other than social welfare, to help them then? Every time a social issue seems to come up about cutting "entitlements" you seem to say that "as a just society, blah blah blah..."

There's nothing wrong with 'social welfare', the problems usually arise in how it is implemented and administered.

I'm going to ask again, where did I say these things that you're accusing me of? Still waiting........

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Tell me you're against food stamps, welfare, section 8 housing, etc. ALL of those things just "throw money" at the problem. You don't say "just throw money at them," but whenever anyone talks about taking money out of that pot you chime in against it.

See above.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

So, you admit that he sold the boots, but now want to quibble over what he sold them for... Food? No, he gets that for free. Rent? He doesn't have rent, he lives on the street. Electricity? Gas bill? Uhmmm nope... Donated the money to charity? Nope, don't think that's it...

The only real thing he could have sold them for is alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes, all of which are "drugs."

You are 'assuming' he sold them for drugs, and as I said before he likely did, however I choose not to 'assume' and we all know what happens when you do....

wjb21ndtown wrote:

You definitely stop helping them, or at least don't help them "more." Welfare use to be a pain in the rectum (I know I waited in the lines at 4 years old... I waited 2 hours for a few blocks of cheese, flour, powdered milk, condensed milk, peanut butter, and oatmeal), now they literally give you what amounts to a credit card to go "play" with willy-nilly, and they wonder why it's abused. The "more" you help these people the more you enable their lifestyle, period.

I agree it shouldn't be easy. The things we treasure the most tend to be the hardest / most difficult to attain. The system needs to be reformed, not shut down IMO.

I'm going to ask you that before you accuse me of saying something, please provide where I said it. When you don't and continue to refuse to respond to these requests, it looks like you're making stuff up just to be argumentative.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

December 5th, 2012, 10:45 am

wjb21ndtown

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

What is your plan, other than social welfare, to help them then? Every time a social issue seems to come up about cutting "entitlements" you seem to say that "as a just society, blah blah blah..."

There's nothing wrong with 'social welfare', the problems usually arise in how it is implemented and administered.

I'm going to ask again, where did I say these things that you're accusing me of? Still waiting........

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Tell me you're against food stamps, welfare, section 8 housing, etc. ALL of those things just "throw money" at the problem. You don't say "just throw money at them," but whenever anyone talks about taking money out of that pot you chime in against it.

See above.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

So, you admit that he sold the boots, but now want to quibble over what he sold them for... Food? No, he gets that for free. Rent? He doesn't have rent, he lives on the street. Electricity? Gas bill? Uhmmm nope... Donated the money to charity? Nope, don't think that's it...

The only real thing he could have sold them for is alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes, all of which are "drugs."

You are 'assuming' he sold them for drugs, and as I said before he likely did, however I choose not to 'assume' and we all know what happens when you do....

wjb21ndtown wrote:

You definitely stop helping them, or at least don't help them "more." Welfare use to be a pain in the rectum (I know I waited in the lines at 4 years old... I waited 2 hours for a few blocks of cheese, flour, powdered milk, condensed milk, peanut butter, and oatmeal), now they literally give you what amounts to a credit card to go "play" with willy-nilly, and they wonder why it's abused. The "more" you help these people the more you enable their lifestyle, period.

I agree it shouldn't be easy. The things we treasure the most tend to be the hardest / most difficult to attain. The system needs to be reformed, not shut down IMO.

I'm going to ask you that before you accuse me of saying something, please provide where I said it. When you don't and continue to refuse to respond to these requests, it looks like you're making stuff up just to be argumentative.

Like I said, tell me you're at least against food stamps, and Section 8 housing, the way it's currently administered. Tell me you're for drug tests for people receiving welfare benefits. Tell me you want to "give" these people "less." I don't think you can.

Section 8 housing and the current food stamp program literally just gives these people money, which is ridiculous.

December 5th, 2012, 12:02 pm

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12296

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

TheRealWags wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

What is your plan, other than social welfare, to help them then? Every time a social issue seems to come up about cutting "entitlements" you seem to say that "as a just society, blah blah blah..."

There's nothing wrong with 'social welfare', the problems usually arise in how it is implemented and administered.

I'm going to ask again, where did I say these things that you're accusing me of? Still waiting........

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Tell me you're against food stamps, welfare, section 8 housing, etc. ALL of those things just "throw money" at the problem. You don't say "just throw money at them," but whenever anyone talks about taking money out of that pot you chime in against it.

See above.

wjb21ndtown wrote:

So, you admit that he sold the boots, but now want to quibble over what he sold them for... Food? No, he gets that for free. Rent? He doesn't have rent, he lives on the street. Electricity? Gas bill? Uhmmm nope... Donated the money to charity? Nope, don't think that's it...

The only real thing he could have sold them for is alcohol, drugs, or cigarettes, all of which are "drugs."

You are 'assuming' he sold them for drugs, and as I said before he likely did, however I choose not to 'assume' and we all know what happens when you do....

wjb21ndtown wrote:

You definitely stop helping them, or at least don't help them "more." Welfare use to be a pain in the rectum (I know I waited in the lines at 4 years old... I waited 2 hours for a few blocks of cheese, flour, powdered milk, condensed milk, peanut butter, and oatmeal), now they literally give you what amounts to a credit card to go "play" with willy-nilly, and they wonder why it's abused. The "more" you help these people the more you enable their lifestyle, period.

I agree it shouldn't be easy. The things we treasure the most tend to be the hardest / most difficult to attain. The system needs to be reformed, not shut down IMO.

I'm going to ask you that before you accuse me of saying something, please provide where I said it. When you don't and continue to refuse to respond to these requests, it looks like you're making stuff up just to be argumentative.

Like I said, tell me you're at least against food stamps, and Section 8 housing, the way it's currently administered. Tell me you're for drug tests for people receiving welfare benefits. Tell me you want to "give" these people "less." I don't think you can.

Section 8 housing and the current food stamp program literally just gives these people money, which is ridiculous.

See the bold parts above... Seems rather clear to me that I agree these programs need to be reformed / fixed. Not sure why you keep missing that

All that being said, I'm sure you would agree there is also plenty of room to reform the following as well, Military / Defense, tax code, Corporate welfare / subsidies, right?

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

December 5th, 2012, 1:26 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

You bet your badonkadonk I do. I think ALL of the energy subsidies should be done away with. I think military spending should be cut by about 20-30%, I think our military should be down-sized, and I think our tax code should be reformed. Depending what you call "corporate welfare," I'm sure I would be on board there too. I'm all for reducing the size and scope of our Federal Govt.

(FWIW, I'd love to go back and look for responses from you that I disagree with regarding welfare, but I can't stand the search function on this site, it sucks.)

December 5th, 2012, 1:36 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

The question is not a digital, "does aid help people or not?" ... that is ridiculous.

Of COURSE it helps many people. And in many other cases, it doesn't work - largely because it isn't sufficient to overcome other big problems (addiction is a GREAT example).

The proper question is, "should we attempt to help people to a reasonable degree, since it has often proved to work." And if your answer to that is "no" - then it is just an opinion, and not based on evidence that it doesn't work. Because it DOES. And OFTEN. And as many pointed out during the election, even people like the wealthy rich Romney has had past relatives on public welfare who then went on to become highly self-sufficient.

Rural whites receive more government aid than anyone. The "inner city" and "urban" comments... that is simply ignorance, hypocrisy, or thinly coded racism.

December 5th, 2012, 3:59 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3987Location: Davison Mi

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

I.E. wrote:

The question is not a digital, "does aid help people or not?" ... that is ridiculous.

Of COURSE it helps many people. And in many other cases, it doesn't work - largely because it isn't sufficient to overcome other big problems (addiction is a GREAT example).

The proper question is, "should we attempt to help people to a reasonable degree, since it has often proved to work." And if your answer to that is "no" - then it is just an opinion, and not based on evidence that it doesn't work. Because it DOES. And OFTEN. And as many pointed out during the election, even people like the wealthy rich Romney has had past relatives on public welfare who then went on to become highly self-sufficient.

Rural whites receive more government aid than anyone. The "inner city" and "urban" comments... that is simply ignorance, hypocrisy, or thinly coded racism.

I'd like to see the stats that back up the last sentance. I can't act like an expert, but I know what I've seen and it is the exact opposite of that statement.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

December 5th, 2012, 7:32 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

regularjoe12 wrote:

I'd like to see the stats that back up the last sentance. I can't act like an expert, but I know what I've seen and it is the exact opposite of that statement.

I don't really want to nitpick stats and argue about this. My point isn't to say there are no problems with some of our aid programs, or that there are not worse problems with poverty in some big metropolitan areas. What I AM saying is the people should be more careful when they make implications and broad-brush statements about aid recipients. The fact is that nearly 70% of aid recipients are children, elderly & disabled. It is VERY complicated, and we have to be careful with stats... and what set me off was wjb using one single example as if that made some kind of a case (it doesn't - and that kind of stuff clouds the conversation with noise.

And the drug testing thing... do you know that in Floriday they did enforce testing for welfare recipients, and the result was 2% of recipients tested positive? The solution costs more than that problem.

My point stands that the "talking points" and raced-based and other insinuations about aid don't tell an accurate story, and we all hurt ourselves and risk hurting innocent, truly deserving people who need our help if we are careless in forming our opinions and making our points.

December 6th, 2012, 12:55 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

I.E. wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

I'd like to see the stats that back up the last sentance. I can't act like an expert, but I know what I've seen and it is the exact opposite of that statement.

I don't really want to nitpick stats and argue about this. My point isn't to say there are no problems with some of our aid programs, or that there are not worse problems with poverty in some big metropolitan areas. What I AM saying is the people should be more careful when they make implications and broad-brush statements about aid recipients. The fact is that nearly 70% of aid recipients are children, elderly & disabled. It is VERY complicated, and we have to be careful with stats... and what set me off was wjb using one single example as if that made some kind of a case (it doesn't - and that kind of stuff clouds the conversation with noise.

And the drug testing thing... do you know that in Floriday they did enforce testing for welfare recipients, and the result was 2% of recipients tested positive? The solution costs more than that problem.

My point stands that the "talking points" and raced-based and other insinuations about aid don't tell an accurate story, and we all hurt ourselves and risk hurting innocent, truly deserving people who need our help if we are careless in forming our opinions and making our points.

2 things:1) Where the PHUCK did I bring race into this? A degenerate is a degenerate, regardless of race. I'm white, and I admitted that I was once a recipient visa vi my Mother for welfare.

2) The problem with "data" and "studies" are that they often ASK the recipients how they use the money, and what it was spent on. The reason people don't "buy it" is because it directly conflicts with what they SEE out of these people every day, and not just in one location, across America! I've read "Making Ends Meet," it's all garbage.

You can keep disparaging "anecdotal evidence" all you want, but it's not "one story," it's story after story after story, and the abuse is a helluva lot more than 2%. Want proof? Look at our "Bridge Cards" and look at what the money is spent on. Track who's doing the spending, and where the product is going (they often buy goods for other people in exchange for drugs, cigarettes, and alcohol). It's commonplace and everyone knows it. Hell, the local news did a whole segment about it within the last year, as if it's "news."

Further, who cares that nearly 70% of aid recipients are children, elderly & disabled? Again, those numbers are used to skew what's really going on. Remove elderly that get assistance through SSI, and remove the disabled who get assistance through SSD, even if they're getting food stamps, they deserve it and they've earned it. Now, focus on the adults (and children) that are getting it. NO ONE IS GIVING AID TO KIDS. They give aid to parents to give to kids, and the parents are largely drug addicted, entitlement losers that are capable of working but refuse. The system only enables these people and encourages their poor life-decisions, period. There's nothing "complicated" about it.

December 6th, 2012, 2:11 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

Re: Here Ya Go Wags... Just Keep Giving them Stuff for Free.

BTW - Yahoo reported that this "shoeless" man actually has a Bronx apartment paid for with a combination of rent vouchers, Social Security, and military veteran benefits.