If one were to take a good objective look in a history book,
it would be seen that the good ol' USA has been the primary instigator.

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Please explain. I think the US stabbed Saddam in the back in the early 1990s, but even then, I don't know how anyone could say that the instigators of the current violence in the Iraq in the last two months were anyone other than Iran.

Please explain. I think the US stabbed Saddam in the back in the early 1990s, but even then, I don't know how anyone could say that the instigators of the current violence in the Iraq in the last two months were anyone other than Iran.

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I could start with the English pre and post WWII and how they totally fucked the Arabs. Or I could reference our involvement with over-throwing Iran's democracy back in the 50's and implementing a dictative ruler (the Shaw). Hence, the Iran revolution back in the 70's and the hostage crisis. Yeah they were pretty pissed with us.

How about selling arms to both Iraq (the front door) at the same time selling arms to Iran (the back door) for their ten year war.

Then there's the backing of arms, money and promises to Osama Bin Laden and the Afganistan fighters during their resistence of the Soviet Union occupation... But we left them hangin with out all our promised support.

I'm not even aware of all the other dirt our democracy lovin' country's government has involved itself in the past 100 yrs regarding the middle east. I'm sure there is plenty more that we've indulged oureselves in to piss them off.

I could start with the English pre and post WWII and how they totally fucked the Arabs. Or I could reference our involvement with over-throwing Iran's democracy back in the 50's and implementing In a dictative ruler (the Shaw). Hence, the Iran revolution back in the 70's and the hostage crisis. Yeah they were pretty pissed with us.

How about selling arms to both Iraq (the front door) at the same time selling arms to Iran (the back door) for their ten year war.

Then there's the backing and making promises to Osama Bin Laden and the Afganistan fighters during their resistence of the Soviet Union occupation... But we left them hangin' to take take of it themselves.

I'm not even aware of all the other dirt our democracy lovin' country's government has involved itself in the past 100 yrs regarding the middle east. I'm sure there is plenty more that we've indulged oureselves in to piss them off.

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Sorry I asked . . .

You say that the good ol' USA has been the primary instigator, and yet in the first sentence you say "I could start with the English pre and post WWII and how they totally fucked the Arabs." English (meaning England) is not the good ol' USA

About Osama: the US gave him and the rest of the Afghani scum the ability to free themselves from the Soviets. The US DID NOT LEAVE THEM HANGING, but intstead gave them the power to free themselves, and then the Afghani scum (Osama and Taliban, etc.) stabbed the US in the back.

You do not give a shit about the IRANIAN instigated violence in Iraq over the past two months, other than to blame America for it, which I must say is about as intellectually dishonest as your knowledge of history. Mental migetry at its best . . .

Yeah I understand your perspective nick, but you gotta see the whole picture. England has always been our ally, so I included the reference cause they did some pretty heavy back stabbin' back then.

As for Afganistan, we did help them, but fell short especially in the reconstruction. Hence, the Taliban bastards rise to 'stone age' power.

As for the current conflict. I agree that the violence at this point is possibly Iranian instigated (no proof though). And remember it was the Sunis' that blew up the first mosque, not the Shia.

But, I'd also be willing to bet (I'm not a betting man either) that Iran was hooked into getting us into this mess to begin with through Chalabi, etc. I bet they were estatic when we did the job of removing Sadam for them. Laughing. Cause we suckered ourselves (the Bush government that is) into this bullshit mess.

Look at the big picture Nick, meaning... over time...

If you (the US) keep continuously kicking a dog (the mid east), sooner or later he's gonna muster what energy he can and bite.

Yeah I understand your perspective nick, but you gotta see the whole picture. England has always been our ally, so I included the reference cause they did some pretty heavy back stabbin' back then. As for Afganistan, we did help them, but fell short especially in the reconstruction. Hence, the Taliban bastards rise to 'stone age' power.

As for the current conflict. No, I agree that the violence at this point is possibly Iranian instigated (no proof though). And remember it was the Sunis' that blew up the first mosque, not the Shia.

But, I'd also be willing to bet (I'm not a betting man either) that Iran was hooked into getting us into this mess to begin with through Chalabi, etc. I bet they were estatic when we did the job of removing Sadam for them. Laughing. Cause we suckered ourselves (the Bush government that is) into this bullshit mess.

Look at the big picture Nick, meaning... over time... If you (the "west") keep kicking a dog (the mid east), sooner or later he's gonna muster what energy he can and bite you.

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Ok, to be fair the US used Afghanistan to stick it to the Soviets, it was quite convenient at that time, but still, what the US did for the Afghanis, is more than the UN or any other nation ever did for them.

Yes, I have heard others say exactly what you may bet about Iran - suckering the US into the Iraq again. I am thinking the US should have stuck with Saddam . . . I wonder if either or both Bushes think this.

Ok, to be fair the US used Afghanistan to stick it to the Soviets, it was quite convenient at that time, but still, what the US did for the Afghanis, is more than the UN or any other nation ever did for them.

Yes, I have heard others say exactly what you may bet about Iran - suckering the US into the Iraq again. I am thinking the US should have stuck with Saddam . . . I wonder if either or both Bushes think this.

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I gotta tell ya Nick, This whole mess really worries me.

It was totally avoidable, in my opinion. I think we really smacked the hornets nest and it could very well get much worse in time.

I really think some smart policy and diplomacy is crucial from here on out.