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Not seen any updates on PSVR, it probably had a decent holiday with all the bundles on sale. It was at 3+ Million in August, so it's probably around 3.5 million, maybe getting closer to 4 million if it did really well over Xmas.

That was a typo. I meant to say 3m+ in August. Anyway I'd be absolutely shocked if they only moved 500k or so since then. I just can't comprehend that situation and from what I seen the VR did decent this Christmas.

It would be great if it made it over 4 million, but with no announcements from Sony here and VR selling slower than standard consoles, my guess is it hasn't quite made it to 4 million yet unfortunately.

Hopefully they do announce 4+ million sold soon though, I love VR and hope it continues to grow as fast as possible.

Second- only nintendo die hards bought the WiiU and virtually no one else. You'd have to imagine the crossover between 3DS owners and WiiU owners would be 100%. It's the same audience buying both systems. Stacking the total sales between the two doesn't really work.

Nah, no two systems work like that. Of course you've got overlap between 3DS and Wii U install base, but one is a handheld and one is a console. One is successful, inexpensive and still available, one flopped, never came down in price permanently and isn't even available anymore.

Things like this mean that a lot of the people getting a 3DS or 2DS and the people getting a Wii U are different. Basically a 3DS or 2DS is the handheld to get, and with that cheap entry price it has drawn in a lot of people who wouldn't even care about Wii U. But then there are also people who don't care about handhelds, so even a Wii U is an easier sell to them than a 3DS or 2DS.

There's 0 reason to believe 3DS and Wii U have 100% the same audience. And at the end of the day, those are separate systems with separate game lineups, so even someone who owns both will buy games for both systems. The dual system setup didn't work out for Nintendo this time round because of how badly Wii U flopped, but when they work they can be incredibly successful, like the Wii + DS dual combo.

Nah, no two systems work like that. Of course you've got overlap between 3DS and Wii U install base, but one is a handheld and one is a console. One is successful, inexpensive and still available, one flopped, never came down in price permanently and isn't even available anymore.

Things like this mean that a lot of the people getting a 3DS or 2DS and the people getting a Wii U are different. Basically a 3DS or 2DS is the handheld to get, and with that cheap entry price it has drawn in a lot of people who wouldn't even care about Wii U. But then there are also people who don't care about handhelds, so even a Wii U is an easier sell to them than a 3DS or 2DS.

There's 0 reason to believe 3DS and Wii U have 100% the same audience. And at the end of the day, those are separate systems with separate game lineups, so even someone who owns both will buy games for both systems. The dual system setup didn't work out for Nintendo this time round because of how badly Wii U flopped, but when they work they can be incredibly successful, like the Wii + DS dual combo.

The WiiU was such terrible hardware the ONLY people who bought that were the ones so deeply invested in the Nintendo ecosystem they'd buy pretty much anything.

The 3DS as the successor to the DS had a very large percentage of Nintendo's franchises there and ONLY there, such Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon X&Y, and New Super Mario Bros. 2. Hell, the Mario Kart and Pokemon 3DS games sold more copies than the WiiU sold units total.

Given that the Wii was dead by 2012 (though indisputably had serious droughts long before this) and the WiiU tanked out of the gate as a nintendo fan you were literally playing nothing from 2013 to 2017 unless you bought a 3DS.

A scenario where someone thats interested in the games Nintendo makes and drops $299 to $349 on a WiiU (which never really had a price drop) but skips buying a 3DS/2DS that could be had as cheaply as $80 when nintendo games were found nowhere else for 4 years is such an edge case its barely worth entertaining as a possibility.

And to top it off, the WiiU's sole selling point was the gamepad that allowed off screen play locally. It was targeted directly at their handheld audience.

The WiiU was such terrible hardware the ONLY people who bought that were the ones so deeply invested in the Nintendo ecosystem they'd buy pretty much anything.

The 3DS as the successor to the DS had a very large percentage of Nintendo's franchises there and ONLY there, such Mario Kart 7, Animal Crossing: New Leaf, Pokemon X&Y, and New Super Mario Bros. 2. Hell, the Mario Kart and Pokemon 3DS games sold more copies than the WiiU sold units total.

Given that the Wii was dead by 2012 (though indisputably had serious droughts long before this) and the WiiU tanked out of the gate as a nintendo fan you were literally playing nothing from 2013 to 2017 unless you bought a 3DS.

A scenario where someone thats interested in the games Nintendo makes and drops $299 to $349 on a WiiU (which never really had a price drop) but skips buying a 3DS/2DS that could be had as cheaply as $80 when nintendo games were found nowhere else for 4 years is such an edge case its barely worth entertaining as a possibility.

And to top it off, the WiiU's sole selling point was the gamepad that allowed off screen play locally. It was targeted directly at their handheld audience.

The WiiU being wildly expensive hardware catering only to nintendo fans? Because thats not really a debate. No game that wasn't developed by Nintendo themselves sold over a million copies.

The WiiU having severe droughts, a weak launch, an even weaker library, and an early death? That part is also demonstrably true. Even among Nintendo's own titles the only things that sold any copies were Mario Kart, a handful of mario platformers and Splatoon.

You know as well as i do that the same exact people paying $300-350 to play mario kart 8 were the same people buying mario kart 7 on 3DS.

Stop kidding yourself.

Nintendo has a loyal following, mostly because no one else is making the family friendly mascot games that they do. You might get one from Sony once in a blue moon, but that's it.

The Nintendo hardcore were the only people buying the WiiU outside of a handful of scalpers who got burned. Those people happily go where the Nintendo games are, and for years after the effective death of the WiiU that was the 3DS. They werent buying XboxOnes to get their Mario and Animal Crossing fix.

The WiiU being wildly expensive hardware catering only to nintendo fans? Because thats not really a debate. No game that wasn't developed by Nintendo themselves sold over a million copies.

The WiiU having severe droughts, a weak launch, an even weaker library, and an early death? That part is also demonstrably true. Even among Nintendo's own titles the only things that sold any copies were Mario Kart, a handful of mario platformers and Splatoon.

You know as well as i do that the same exact people paying $300-350 to play mario kart 8 were the same people buying mario kart 7 on 3DS.

Sure Jan. Like i said, a handful of edge cases exist, but arent worth discussing.

The 3DS and the WiiU audience by and large was the same damn thing and everyone knows it. Stacking the two and pretending Nintendo's audience is potentially 72 million (3DS) + 13 million (wiiU) as if the crossover wasnt damn near 100% is completely ridiculous.

No Nintendo console has ever gotten anywhere close to 85 million units save the Wii, and that system's audience (and the DS as a handheld) were both devastated by casuals leaving gaming en masse for phones and tablets.

It would take a miracle for the Switch to hit Wii levels, and 120 million is completely impossible.

The Switch due to hardware restrictions cannot run third party titles that got the broader audience buying units like COD/GTA/Battlefield/Destiny/Fallout/Assassins creed/RDR2. Like it or not these games push a ton of units and the ps4 wouldn't be at 90 million without them either.

Those will stay PS4/XBO/PC. Nintendo's first parties unlike Sony's are ill equipped to make anything similar that might attract that audience.

Nintendo also cannot cost reduce the switch to the levels it did for the 3DS. The 3DS was outdated and overpriced hardware for what it was when it launched, and stripping even that down to the bare bones $80 2DS is the only way the 3DS hit 70m units.

Sure Jan. Like i said, a handful of edge cases exist, but arent worth discussing.

The 3DS and the WiiU audience by and large was the same damn thing and everyone knows it. Stacking the two and pretending Nintendo's audience is potentially 72 million (3DS) + 13 million (wiiU) as if the crossover wasnt damn near 100% is completely ridiculous.

No Nintendo console has ever gotten anywhere close to 85 million units save the Wii, and that system's audience (and the DS as a handheld) were both devastated by casuals leaving gaming en masse for phones and tablets.

I personally agree that probably 90% of Wii U owners also got a 3DS. Probably the highest crossover ratio of all time.
Some people have a theory that one of the reasons for the Wii U selling even lower than say Gamecube was that 3DS was a 'good enough' 'main' Nintendo system for the 20-30 million Nintendo hardcores, since it got a full main 3D Mario, 2D Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros etc.

But that poster last page essentially said "PS3 might have lost a lot of money on hardware but made it up in software sales so therefore it was a success" lol. They didn't reply once I informed them the quoted PS3 losses of 5-10 billion dollars were totals including any money back in software sales...

That said, the 3DS/Wii U numbers are being used in interesting ways by people with various perspectives/agendas. Some use Wii U+3DS sales as the bar for the Switch to be said to be successful, since Switch replaces both handheld and TV console. Which is kind of reasonable, the only caveat there being that 3DS is still selling too.

This poster with an anti-Nintendo angle is using Wii U+3DS (minus the crossover) in a new way - as the Switch sales ceiling, as if Wii U+3DS sales (minus the crossover) is the absolute limit for Switch sales. Which seems pretty dumb as Switch is much more appealing hardware than Wii U and 3DS ever were and is reaching well beyond the 'minimum' Nintendo hardcore.

I don't believe that either, and the fact is, we simply don't know. Probably even Nintendo doesn't know, but they should have a good estimate, and they have some actual data too (but not complete data). Going with something as high as 90% and completely forgetting that people buy systems for a lot of different reasons just doesn't make a lot of sense.