When Lincoln found out there was a toy factory and enslaved elves at the North Pole he dispatched General Sherman. Now the North Pole looks like this:The white rainbow is left over from the chemical weapons, of course.

The Christmas of Santa and Rudolph, and trees and stockings, and candy canes and "Merry Christmas" greetings began to be most publicly celebrated in the United States only after -- and only because -- the religious impetus for the holiday had already dwindled away.

Waldo Pepper:Hoban Washburne: Truthfully I've never understood why Easter isn't the big party day for Christians.

It used to be. I think it may be the bigger one in Latin America. Christmas wasn't even that big of a deal until the late 19th century. The early Church didn't even recognize it as one of the major Christian holidays.

I've been trying to be less cynical lately, commercialism is the only reason I can think of as to why it's bigger.

Fireproof:Darth_Lukecash: Good history except for one part, Lincoln never grew out of his atheist phase.

Wiki says that debate is most definitely not settled.

The two books quoted were from a Christian standpoint.

His speeches were just that- political speeches.

And him going to church with his wife after two of their kids died was probably to support his wife, who suffered from a heavy depression. Again, he never joined a church. Nor is there any mention of being Baptized-which is very important in Christian belief.

But Lincoln lost an election due to perceived hostility to Christendom, Linvpcoln being the master politician.

As Carl Sandburg recounts in Abraham Lincoln: The Prairie Years, Lincoln attended one of Cartwright's revival meetings. At the conclusion of the service, the fiery pulpiteer called for all who intended to go to heaven to rise. Naturally, the response was heartening. Then he called for all those who wished to go to hell to stand, unsurprisingly there were not many takers. Lincoln had responded to neither option. Cartwright closed in. "Mr. Lincoln, you have not expressed an interest in going to either heaven or hell. May I enquire as to where you do plan to go?" Lincoln replied: "I did not come here with the idea of being singled out, but since you ask, I will reply with equal candor. I intend to go to Congress."[

If he spoke religiously in a speech, it was to make a point. If he invoked God, it was meant to inspire.

Lincoln was the first Americans to hear about Darwinism, and the among the first to talk about it positively. Strangely enough, Lincoln rarely spoke about religion with others.

The author of TFA seems awfully fixated on Christmas Trees, which is odd since they didn't become fashionable in the English speaking world until Victoria and Albert started putting them up in the palace.

So pretty much any president before Lincoln or Grant would have looked at Das Tannenbaum and gone "wtf is this fire hazard doing in my living room?"

Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion. Religion's been steadily sneaking back in every since, embraced by the same people whose ancestors hated it back in the day.

Well, they were undeniably more respectful of each others' religious differences, and cognizant of the fact that if you favoured Christmas by government decree, it was a slippery slope to the present derp.

Had to laugh my ass off Sunday while watching the Seahawks game on Fox. On top of their scoreboard when they were going to or coming from commercial were the words "Happy Holidays!" Guess this means Fox themselves are on their own shiat list...?

Some people are really ignorant when it comes to biblical historiography. Some people stupidly think Jesus doesn't exist. That's fair enough since there are no contemporary records of him, though there are enough primary and secondary sources to be fairly certain. But some people take it even further to doubting the existence of any biblical figure.

edmo:Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion. Religion's been steadily sneaking back in every since, embraced by the same people whose ancestors hated it back in the day.

edmo:Pretty interesting. The country came to be, in part, because folks were trying to escape the dual oppression of government and religion.

You're remembering your elementary text book, not reality. Puritans weren't in favor of religious freedom, they were in favor of their religion, which wasn't in power in England (until Cromwell, when many moved back). This included some famous banishments and fairly intolerant behavior and rules (like women no longer being able to speak in church).