It’s one of those “we don’t like each other” affairs that can leave bystanders to the relationship left scratching heads because there was no reported physical or mental abuse, no horizontal boogie on the side. Just two human beings doing what they do over time: changing, being periodically boring and annoying as hell, and adverse to talking about things directly.

And there-in lies the rub: They never went to counseling, they never went all-in to save the relationship or rediscover the friendship that started the whole thing. And while I agree being dissatisfied is definitely an excuse to break up with someone (I’ve done it), I do believe that when a kid is in the picture it changes the rules.

Marriage or long-term partnering or whatever you want to call the bonding of two people, especially two people with a child, is an absolute trial. Unless you’re extremely lucky or seriously delusional (and I’m increasingly of the mind that those are one in the same) chances are you have to work like a bricklayer to make your relationship last.

Now as the child of a second marriage I think divorce has its merits (especially when a lying, cheating bastard like my mother’s first husband is involved). But after becoming a parent I do think that before you pull the plug you have to have earned the right to end things, you have to have worked hard to save the marriage/partnership/mutual agreement.

But what about you: What do you think about divorce?

Divorce is a right. You should be able to do it at will.

Divorce is a privilege. It should only come after attempts to save your relationship fail.

Divorce is only allowable when there's abuse, lying, or cheating in the mix.

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27 Responses to Divorce: A right or a privilege?

Audrysays:

August 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm

My brother is currently going through a divorce, and I’m sure plenty of people would be totally dumbfounded as to why. But I watched them for 10 years be unhappy. No fireworks, just constantly unhappy. It’s true they both missed endless opportunities to end it before they had kids, but there’s no changing that. Attempts at counseling, reconciling or even communicating were scant, but there is not the slightest doubt in my mind that this divorce is the right thing for the family. Doesn’t mean it’s easy or fun. There are endless reasons why each marriage ends and every situation is different, and sometimes to people on the outside they may not seem legitimate, but those people on the outside usually don’t have a clue.

Scott Adlersays:

August 29, 2012 at 12:59 pm

Absolutely, Audry, the success and failure of an individual relationship is entirely unique. And sometimes failure is the best alternative – for everybody. I’m sorry for your brother, his spouse, and their kids. I hope everyone comes out on the other side stronger.

meajuly5says:

August 29, 2012 at 12:45 pm

I agree that children are a game changer when it comes to relationships and the decision to stay together or to get divorced. But are you seriously saying that you have the insight into their marriage to know what led to the demise or it or the efforts/consideration that went into deciding between ending it or staying together? Have you considered that perhaps they are putting out a minimal amount of information to people in order to protact their own and thier childrens’ privacy? (since you blogged about it, rightly so). Most states are no fault. If one person wants out, they are out. Whether you have a “divorce is not an option” mentality, if your spouse wants a divorce, it is happening. There are many people who find themselves married to somone who holds different values than they professed or who have changed or evolved into someone that they can not live with. I am sure some people get divorced “easily” but for many many people, it is a private, painful and heartwrenching reality that they probably don’t divulge the private details to many people. And there are a lot of intact families that do a lot of collateral damage to their children by being unsatisfied, unhappy and unfulfilled. Clearly, there is an ideal scenario but don’t be so sure that you know what is best for them or anyone else, including the kids. this article was childish and simplistic.

Susansays:

August 29, 2012 at 12:47 pm

I don’t think very many people get divorced on a whim. Most do work to save the marriage, but they don’t necessarily share the details with everyone.

Also, when people claim something benign-sounding like “we’ve grown apart” or “we fell out of love,” there is a really good chance that they are just taking the high road by not blabbing to the world about abuse or infidelity or other trust issues. Sadly, a very judgmental world will take this attempt at graciousness and say, “See? They just didn’t try. That’s what’s wrong with people. They expect marriage to be easy and it takes work.”

Well, perhaps your friends DID work very hard at saving the marriage, perhaps there is more going on than “we just don’t like each other anymore.” I give people the benefit of the doubt and trust them to make good decisions for themselves.

Scott Adlersays:

August 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm

I hear you, Susan. The truth is I will probably never know the details about why my friends are going their separate ways. There will always be four sides to the story: Hers, his, the judgements of onlookers, and the truth.

I think of their relationship more as a doorway to the question about what is divorce and when is it okay? Maybe it’s a silly question – every relationship is unique – but one that I’ve been thinking a lot about in the wake of what’s happening with my friends.

Megaronisays:

August 29, 2012 at 1:02 pm

I’m firmly in camp “divorce at will.” While some people may argue that it’s better to stay together for the sake of the children, I don’t agree. Becoming a parent should not require you to put your life on hold for the next twenty or so years until your children are grown.

Staying with someone for whom you have no feelings (or have bad feelings) is not easy. I don’t think it’s fair to expect people to do that long-term simply because they have a child.

Children can tell when their parents are unhappy. Some of them even realize that they are the only reason their parents are still together, leading them to decide that their very existence is the cause of their parents’ unhappiness. Having children blame themselves for mom & dad being stuck together can’t be good for them.

And I agree wholeheartedly with Susan. Just because you don’t know or don’t approve of the circumstances surrounding a divorce does not mean that they made the decision lightly. And there are circumstances in which counseling won’t help. Everyone has their deal-breakers, and people do change with age. If your spouse grows into a person whose values/beliefs you can’t tolerate, divorce may be the only option.

Chrissysays:

August 29, 2012 at 1:06 pm

I am the “second wife” of my husband. He has two daughters from his first marriage, my stepdaughters.

DH would not go to counseling with his ex. He realized fundamental flaws in their relationship that were always there and he had always thought were normal. It was seeing real relationships that weren’t built on hurting each other that changed his heart.

She pressured him into getting married to her in secret. She belittled and degraded him during their entire marriage. She hid money and was an irresponsible spender creating boat loads of debt that he was saddled with. She delayed graduating college in order to avoid having to work.

That’s not a life to live. That’s not what he wanted his children to see as normal. Those are not the values that he wants to pass on in his family.

Susansays:

August 29, 2012 at 1:07 pm

Scott–I think that whenever friends divorce, it’s a doorway to many, many questions about relationships and the specific questions depend heavily on our own understanding of marriage AND our opinions of the marriage that is ending. Some couples announce their divorce and no one is surprised. In fact, we may wonder why it took so long fo them to realize what a disaster their relationship is/was. Then, with other couples–those whose relationship seems so solid–the shock may be strong enough to make us question the validity of all marriages. “If those two can’t make it, who can?”

Anyway, good luck to your friends. No matter how it all ends, it’s going to be hard.

Samantha Schoechsays:

August 29, 2012 at 1:19 pm

I absolutely agree that marriage takes work, especially if you want a happy one. But there are a million reasons a marriage could end. It doesn’t need to be explosive or dramatic. Falling out of love happens. And sometimes you just know it’s not coming back, even with all the counseling in the world. Better that everyone move on in pursuit of a happy family life than suffer in a miserable household.

Amysays:

August 29, 2012 at 1:52 pm

My parents divorced when I was 3 and later got married to other people. My husband’s parents stayed together until he was in college, despite not loving (or even liking) each other. It was hard having divorced parents, and that’s definitely had an effect on me, but I think my husband had it worse. Because my parents both remarried, I got to see them in happy and loving relationships, whereas my husband never had that example.

Scott Adlersays:

August 29, 2012 at 2:14 pm

Amy and Sam, I agree that it’s not good for people to hang out together if things are a shambles or a lie (they don’t want anything to do with each other). I think my thing here is not about forcing a relationship to go beyond its past-due date. It’s about the couples who don’t seem to make an effort to connect again or to try and see if there’s any embers left by making an effort.

If there’s nothing there, then by all means get the heck out of there. Because unhappiness, to the point of Megaroni, children pick up on bummed out people or the unhealthy relationships (I know I certainly did not like the way things went with my own parents’ situation. They’re still hitched but wow, they could’ve used some therapy. But I digress…).

Elizabethsays:

August 29, 2012 at 2:32 pm

I’m with you Scott. I don’t know that I would go so far as to define divorce as a privilege, though that is how I voted, but I do wonder why so many couples just call it quits without any counseling–particularly when children are involved. I think it would serve children better to see their parents really try to work it out first before just dropping the divorce bomb. As an onlooker who doesn’t have any close, personal experience with divorce, it seems by the time many couples give up they’ve kind of passed the point where counseling would help them. Marriage is hard work, but divorce can also cause so many other problems/issues that I just don’t understand why more people don’t work at it and seek help before calling it quits.

Chrissysays:

August 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm

I agree with you, Scott, in the sense that the idea of not going to counseling or making some kind of an effort to repair the relationship is interesting. My sister walked away from her marriage with a few tears, and I have a close friend and her husband who have worked tirelessly with their pastor and counselor anytime there have been large bumps in the road. I never believed these two were a match from the start, but their commitment to making it work is admirable to me.

Momof4says:

August 29, 2012 at 7:18 pm

My husband and I are both second husband/wife to each other. My first marriage I think would fall under the lying part. But there was other issues and no kids. I wanted kids, he didn’t. I disclosed my issues before marriage, he would get super angry about those issues to the point I feared he would hit me. Even with all that, though, I still wanted to stay with him and work it out. We also lived like roommates the last 9 months of our marriage, he wouldn’t touch me no matter how many times I tried to be “intimate” with him. Until the last straw. He chose the dog over me. That dog saw more attention than me, and was completely undisciplined, I gave him an ultimatum about getting the dog training, or it would go… He stated I would go before the dog. I originally thought divorce was a never thing. But I don’t think I should have kept going when my attempts to better the marriage failed, it was loveless on his side, and there was not even a hug at the end of the day. Fast forward 5 years after the divorce… and it all is clear. He came out as Gay.

Now my husband, well he only got married because she got pregnant. She didn’t want the baby and tried many times to “loose it”. My son is autistic due to the environment that he was born into. They fought like cats and dogs, were never friends, and sex well that also was non-existent. She was verbally abusive to him while they were married. So he got out, though unfortunately the state wasn’t a father state, so he got very little visitation, even though he was the only parent that wanted our son.

Fast forward to now… They are actually on better terms, more friendly. We all get along, she calls me for advice and we all work together for our son’s best interest.

I choose that it should be a privilege, but I also don’t think it should be easy, there should be a working out if it’s possible. Currently in this marriage, there is no divorce, save for abuse in my mind. That is where I am currently at in my opinion.

lindsaysays:

August 29, 2012 at 7:47 pm

Many people get married with little forethought, have children with little forethought, so it should come as no surprise when divorce follows suit. Obviously not speaking about every situation out there.

ISAsays:

August 29, 2012 at 8:44 pm

How do you know they haven’t worked on it for a long time. Or that they haven’t tried other ways to solve their marital problems.
My husband and I have a lot of problems. On the outside we seem solid. Because we don’t discuss the problems we are having (small town and all.) so if we announced a divorce everyone would be shocked.
What they wouldn’t know is that we have been working on our marriage for the last two years.

Scott Adlersays:

August 30, 2012 at 7:50 am

ISA, it’s an interesting question: What do I know? And obviously I don’t or won’t know everything – no one ever does. Just last night the male half of my friends’ ending marriage came over to the house and outlined “how blind” he was etc. So even he didn’t know the story and wish that he’d worked harder to be present in his relationship.

And I think that’s my point, that some couples don’t put in the effort like you and your husband have been doing – either jointly or individually – and that maybe they should before they close up shop on a marriage. And if they do try and it still is a wreck, then yes, I think they should break the marriage and give everyone, kid included, the chance to be happy.

Liasays:

August 30, 2012 at 12:08 am

I’m definitely “divorce is a right” kind of person, although I know that I would turn the world around before deciding to divorce with a child. I still recognize hubby and me the right to walk away if life is not good. After all, we only have one life to live. No-one should live a lifetime in frustration just for the sake of a “no divorce” ideal.
I am not the second but the third wife. When I met my husband, I was puzzled as to how such a nice guy could have divorced, on his initiative, twice. Now I know. The first time his girlfriend got pregnant and she wanted the baby, so he did the honourable thing. Marriage did not save an already ailing relationship though- they never even lived together. But through marriage he took the responsibility of the child, and I find this admirable, even if it did not work for the couple.
The second time was a love marriage, but there were too many problems that grew through the years. An age difference that finally could not be ignored, totally different views about familly finances and financial contribution, other familly members imposing their views, no supportive familly either way etc. No counceling would have saved that, to resolve each bad dynamics would have taken years upon years upon years. It turned into a very ugly divorce, which only reinforced his opinion that he had to make his own life.

After I understood his past, I understood that we had to work on creating a solid relationship. I realised that a man twice divorced carries too many wounds that can back-fire unexpectedly. So when we had our first fights, I took the first steps towards reconciliation. I never accept issues to linger without doing something positive to resolve them. I decided to never engage in blame games. Since he has understood that I won’t judge him, that I will try to put myself in his shoes, and that I consider us a team and not opponents whenever there is a problem, he functions the same with me. So we have built a trusting relationship, full of esteem and respect – and you can tell. Sometimes it does feel like lots of work. Most of the time though, we love so much the result as to not consider the effort (it is unbelievable how many things get achieved once you decide that quarreling is not going to make problems go away). Looking at our issues through the “we love each other and that’s more important” lens is building into a habit for us.
But still I made my loving MIL laugh (in horror) when I told her I don’t take our marriage for given and that I know that if things turn wrong, my husband may not hesitate to find himself in a third divorce. I think knowing that your companion has the right to go, makes you work every day for the relationship before problems become so important as to need counseling.

Nicholesays:

August 30, 2012 at 3:48 am

I agree with you Lindsay. I have given this subject much thought. Maybe the majority of the counseling should take place BEFORE two people are allowed to wed and we would have less issues with divorce.

But if they do get a divorce I think or should be after working on it, not a quick fix. (not saying every divorce is!)

Alycesays:

August 30, 2012 at 7:02 am

I’m glad you pointed this out, because it is so unfair to put children through the damage that divorce does. I think sometimes people need to understand that divorce isn’t a solution as much as it is a patch, especially when kids are involved. The other parent will always be involved in the child’s life, and therefore in yours. You will still have disagreements, you will still probably be concerned about what environment your child is in when the environment isn’t yours, you take on new financial burdens, family ties are strained for parents, relatives and children, your child will have to learn coping mechanisms at home and at school, it affects their marriage in the future, their views of commitment and their beliefs about their spouses (personal knowledge speaking). Divorce is ugly. I also actually know people who won’t get married because they are afraid of divorce. Before you sign those papers, ask yourself if you can really build a future knowing that part of the cost is damage to your children. Ask if it is worth giving one more genuine, unguarded effort. And before you judge me, yes, I’ve had to ask these questions myself. Most people who have been married for a while have had to ask these questions. I should however qualify, that I don’t believe abuse or addiction is worth sticking around for, especially where children are in the picture. Because then they are in danger.

I recently got separated after 11 years of marriage and 2 kids. It was a shock to everyone, since I never discussed my marital problems, nor did I speak ill of my husband, I actually did everything possible so that no one would notice we had issues. We did counseling over the years, more than once, therapy, psychologists, psychiatrists, both together and by ourselves. A couple of years ago, in the midst of our crisis (2009) I even spent a week in hospital due to a Panick attack and pain of watching how my marriage was falling apart. I lost a significant amount of weight and tried to get through to my husband, which by the way is a great man and an excellent father. We always had sex issues, he was not interested, and it got worse with the years, having sex 2 in 10 months, at the end I felt like it didn’t matter what I did, it didn´t change anything. Until something did, I fell out of love, there was no more connection between us, and I felt like I had suffered enough. I dealt with my personal issues and rebuild myself and one day I felt strong enough to tell him that our marriage was over. My family was terribly shocked and inmediatly judged me, when you have sexual problems with your partner, you don’t talk about them.. You don’t tell people you’ve gone to the sexologist, you don’t say that your husband doesn’t touch you, you don’t tell them he is not interested!! Everybody asumes sex happens, I’m a good looking woman, with a good body and he is handsome, everybody assumed we had a great time. My mother doesn’t visit me, she visits my kids at my ex-husbands house, my siblings invite my ex-husband to their houses. I haven’t told my story and I won’t, because he is the father of my children and I respect him, I don’t want people talking things about him.
So. before you write an article assuming your friends haven’t done the work. Don’t be so quick to judge, not everyone goes around talking about their private personal life. There’s a reason for that, It’s private!!

meajuly5says:

August 30, 2012 at 9:26 am

what about situations where their is massive distrust due to deceit of one partner–financial, emotional, etc? What if you enter into a relationship after a long courtship, after having done premarital counseling and open conversation to learn that your spouse is really not the person he presented himself to be? What if your spouses actions undermined the secuirty of your family and by divorcing you could ensure that your children had financial security and at least one stable environment? That if removing the confines of the relationship from the spouse who was 100% NOT committed to it left him free to actually commit to the kids when he was with them bc he has plenty of time “off”? Sometimes letting go of what you want/wanted is actually better for the kisd. Not ideal but better. I have had many people tell me that there parents stayed together for them. And what they learned from that was how to be in a loveless marriage, how to self sacrifice to the point where nobody is happy and that is not a not a relationship to model either. I beleive in marriage and I think it should never be entered into lightly but it is so much more complicated than “together is better” If you do have kids and you divorce, the compromising is just beginning. Trust me–you think marraige is hard and requires work??? So does coparenting with your ex if your motivation is to continue to provide your children with a loving, safe, environment. there are many divorced parents who are committed to their children and who work tirelessly to minimizet the impact of the divorce ont their children–they ahve not necessarily taken the “easy” way out and probably know more about working together, compromising, etc. than you can imagine if they have a decent post divorce relationship. It takes mad devotion to do it.

Momof4says:

August 30, 2012 at 10:49 am

@Constanza – Has your ex felt attraction in another area? My ex never told me about it, but that was one of the reasons… Years later he says he is gay… So it was no one’s fault. He was still a good guy.

Kristina Sauerweinsays:

August 30, 2012 at 3:19 pm

I’ve been in the middle — of my parents divorce and, more recently, of my friends divorcing. There’s almost nothing worse. With kids, I believe you have to work much harder. Then again, some couples with kids hang on too long, and they were miserable together and sometimes it’s just better to cut the losses.

Kenziesmommysays:

August 30, 2012 at 5:12 pm

I think divorce is a really touchy subject and is unique to each case, situation, and couple. I think that if you are unhappy and have expressed your unhappiness and as a result nothing changes, then you should give yourself the opportunity to be happy. When there are children involved I think that no matter how unhappy the parents are they need to make a parenting relationship for the child. I grew up with paretns who were like fire and gasoline, they really weren’t happy and still aren’t. They fought all the time and it wss miserable for me. I think that it is more of a tragedy when the parents say that they stay together for the child. It makes that child feel like it is their fault their parents are unhappy.

Christysays:

September 3, 2012 at 4:47 pm

just because your friends don’t give YOU what you consider to be a “good reason” doesn’t mean there isn’t one! i left because of a double life i found out my husband (and father to my 3 children) was living. our neighbors don’t know, the church doesn’t know, the school doesn’t know. my counselor and my BFF know. its not something anyone would have expected and probably few if any would believe, so there is no point in sharing.

Kellysays:

September 4, 2012 at 6:26 am

In a lot of ways I feel like we should just make marriage a bit harder to get. Some states, there’s no waiting period at all. I guess I feel like if people can’t last at least a few months unmarried then there’s not much of a shot being married. Or maybe we need a formal engaged designation. Who knows.

I’m not against divorce but I do feel like people should at least make a decent effort at figuring out what went wrong. If nothing else but to try not to have it happen again.

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