ATS what is your opinion on the healthcare system in America? Be painfully honest.

I think that free healthcare would be ideal, I just don't see any way to make it practical. A state sponsored system sounds good on paper, but at
the end of the day costs eventually get out of control, and corruption becomes rampant. It'd be great if we could manage it effectively over the
long term, but in practice that's extremely difficult to do.

Unfortunately, I think the culture that dictates that everyone must be treated regardless of ability to pay is flat out wrong. This pushes costs onto
other people, and given the cost and nature of recent medical advances, I don't think that it is fundamentally possible to provide the same quality
of care to everyone ad infinitum. Not everyone can be the 6 million dollar man, if that makes any sense. At some point, it becomes too difficult and
too expensive to keep trying to piece everyone back together to the extent science currently allows. Perhaps in the future this will change-- but
entitlement mentality that is so pervasive lately is unsustainable given man's nature and resources. (This is where the euthanasia craziness over
Obama's healthcare bill came from btw. Eventually such measures would be necessary should the state control healthcare, even if Obama has no
intention of implementing them.)

I know it sounds terrible, but I don't think healthcare is a human right. Nothing that requires the work of your fellow man can possibly classified
as a right IMO. If I were a doctor, I'd do my best to treat everyone-- those able to pay and those unable-- but I don't think that I (or anyone
else) can rightfully decide that anyone else must do the same.

That's what happens when so many people don't pay their bill. They stick you with an even bigger bill-- then hope you'll pay-- although the
chances you'll be able to decrease every time they kick the can down the road.

I had X-Rays of my chest and shoulder plus a check up and blood test recently. I got to sit in a massage chair, watch a flat screen TV with relaxing
crappola on it, and the bill was $400. A lot, but honestly I was surprised it wasn't more.

You got screwed because it was an emergency visit-- that's the kind that typically doesn't get paid for. I feel that there should be a way to
dispute the cost of something like that, however. $750 is pure usury for a couple stitches. It pretty much defies any concept of reasonable. I've
heard you can typically talk them down on something like that. They're just betting they can screw you.

I can't beleive you all willingly live under a system which forces people to pay thousands of dollars for a routine hospital visit, or any other
medical care. It is is sick, and inhuman.

This was in Canada:

I got food poisoning last Sunday, failed to keep hydrated due to vomiting and diarrhea, and had to go to the hospital early the next morning. I saw a
triage nurse within 5 minutes of arriving, waited for 45 minutes, and was taken to an examination room. I waited five more minutes, and saw a nurse
who did a brief examination; blood, urine, and stool samples, and ten minutes later I saw a doctor. They gave me a glucose IV + a saline/Gravol drip
for the nausea, (took an hour) wrote me a prescription for probiotics to repopulate my intestinal flora, and sent me on my way.

I left the house at 5:30 AM, and was home in bed by 9. I took a day off from school, recuperated, was shaky for a few days but otherwise fine, and got
on with my life.

The hospital visit/treatment cost $0, and the prescription was $18.

And before you go and say: "Well, Canada has higher taxes to pay for its socialized medicine" Please bear in mind that Canada has a lower corporate
tax rate (which encourages industry), and a higher personal income exemption for low-income earners than the United States does: I actually pay less
taxes than I would if I lived and made the same amount of money in the United States.

Also please consider that the province I live in (Alberta) has a 'problematic' health-care system that is viewed as one of the worst in Canada, and
in need of repair.

What do I think of the American health-care system?

If you're a millionaire, you have access to the best treatment in the world. If you're lower-middle class like me, you have lower quality access
than 38 other countries - including every industrialized nation in the world other than the United States.

Health care costs account for (and eat up) close to 40% of your GDP, and your people are sicker than in every other developed nation.

What would my visit to the hospital have cost me in the United States, even if I was partially covered by insurance?

One major reason Canada and other countries with socialized healthcare are able to function so well is that they enjoy all the benefits of the fact
that the US has to pay so much. The US pays for the major innovations in healthcare today, and the rest of the world basically freeloads off the new
technology. Not that I blame them, but that's how it is. Last I heard we were even subsidizing the exportation of our drugs.

I have never been treated in the US but I have experienced the advertising frenzy of anything health related whilst visiting there several times.
There is an astonishing amount of money being sucked out of the US population and feeding the healthcare industry. I can only say that thank christ
for Aneurin Bevin and the UK NHS.

For all its flaws I would never ever ever in a trillion years in the maddest moment ever want to replace the NHS with a private care system. No
matter what happens to me I know I will get treated no matter how severe and I never have to worry about paying for it.

With a private system you are asserting that money is more important than pain. In my opinion that is an immoral stance and for anyone who believes
in Jesus Christs's teaches (very high in the US) totally wrong.

We do have problems (as you do !) but sometimes these are exaggerated for political purposes and more often than not a sick child is added to the mix!
So a hefty pinch of salt is needed at times.

One thing I do see worldwide is that the more modern a country is the more it leans towards a free-for-all at the point of delivery health service.
Well all except the richest nation on the planet. rather ironic really.

Originally posted by Unvarnished
Hello all! I am a second year medical student and I was just wondering what everyone's point of view on the healthcare system is here in America? I
would tell you all that I disagree with these pharmaceutical companies making drugs unaffordable to the point where people end up in a situation where
they have to pay to live. I am really looking forward to everyone's responses. I hope all is well!

The older small town doctor, who was actually in practice to "help people" has now been forced to relingquish control of his small office practice
over to the nearest large hospital. Small town pharmacy's have been taken over by the super chain pharmacies.

Thank you for your story, I agree with you. Although I am being trained in the allopathic doctrine, I have noticed that all they want us to do is
prescribe medications without actually caring for the patient. I remember I learned in class that it was somewhat ethical to buy a medication for a
patient who cannot afford a drug, and I would love to challenge this. Majority of the problems can be cured with simple diet unless it is a crazy
infection or genetic problem. Thank you for sharing your story. It seems that you have been coping very well with fibromyalgia, and I implore you. I
hope all is well!

This is so true.
We take food for granted, and base our consumption of food on how good it tastes, not realizing that every piece of food we put into our bodies can
have a similar chemical reaction as many drugs.
Diabetes for example can be controlled by weight loss and diet.,
People on various unnecessary prescriptions are slowly being poisoned like ginea pigs as these chemicals destroy the livers, kidneys and other organs
inside their bodies.

Many times the best treatment is actually to council the patient on eating habits and lifestyle changes.

There are many many holistic treatments to many ailments but it takes a little more "will power" than just easily popping a pill.

ATS what is your opinion on the healthcare system in America? Be painfully honest.

Quite simply, the current system is failing us and the proposed remedy, Obamacare, will fail as well.

Here's the big picture:

Healthcare operates as part of the free market. This means that there is that market and the consumer. When allowed to interact without interference,
the concept works fine because the market will not commit suicide by pricing itself out of business. Costs would balance along lines determined by
what the market could pay for service.

Consumer/Patient >----$----> Market/Physician

But in the case of the current situation in the US, this natural function is disabled because there is a third-party leeching both ends dry.

The health insurance industry has positioned itself squarely between the market and the consumer. In a nutshell, you just can't go the the doctor
anymore without negotiating with this middleman industry. So, the consumer pays more for healthcare because they not only are paying the physician
(etc.) for service rendered, but also supporting that third party middleman industry.

The solution is as simple as it would be painful; eliminate all health insurance and return healthcare to a cash-for-service transaction.

There would have to be some initial buffering from some quarter but the eventual outcome would be that the market would re balance itself according to
what the consumer could afford. Again, the system is not suicidal so we know with a good degree of confidence that this would be the final result. The
painful part would be the surgery that extracted health insurance from the patient because just like any leeching, non-symbiotic relationship, yanking
the bloodsucker off would hurt like hell.

I can honestly say the health care system in this country is greatly flawed. I think we (the govt) should look at successful systems and use what is
learned. I believe it is England that has a great program. Guess what....you pay a tax.....no hear me out...

You pay 10 cents on every purchase that is not food or crap there's something else don't remember, gas that's it...Anyway this pays for all medical
and all pharmaceuticals. This is one tax people don't mind paying....they know where the money goes and it greatly benefit them too.

Go to the hospital, go to your doctor...........it's covered.

An example of craziness-- last July 3rd... a friend at a party (who normally doesn't drink) ended up drinking enough to pass out. This freaked out
the host who called the rescue squad..... well 10 hours later and 2 bags of fluids.. she now owes the hospital over $5000 dollars. For less then a
night on their bed and fluid that cost $8. Crazy.

Unless you have the best healthcare policy money can buy, expect to lose all your retirement savings if you have a life threatening illness or need
assisted living in your later years. Healthcare should be a basic human right for any person needing life saving medical procedures, or living out
the rest of your golden years without having to lose your home or your kids inheritance. It shouldn't be based upon your ability to pay to preserve
your life. If you're rich, you have a better chance of living a longer life than those who have less? What's wrong with that picture?

Honestly, I think instead of having an illegal income tax, there should be a percentage of income paid by everyone in this country that would go into
a healthcare fund. Who should control that fund is another question all together. Whoever would be responsible in controlling that fund should be
subject to strict oversights to prevent spending abuse and political access.

If our government has the power to start wars and put our population and our family members who serve in the military at risk, than they should be
responsible for the human life they can put in harms way.

I pay a co-pay of over 200.00 per month for health and dental with a school system. I'm getting ready to enroll in AFLAC to ensure additional costs
for MRI's and various scans are ever needed. Even with as much as I pay, these types of exams are only partially covered. One MRI can cost
thousands of dollars out of pocket even with standard medical insurance. I have the best coverage that my school system offers and even then I would
be out quite a lot of money if I ever get seriously ill.

Are you sure you can handle the Truth? My husband was given conflicting medications which caused rhambomialisis. The Dr. was asked if meds could cause
the symptoms he was suffering.The Dr. denied that the meds were the cause off the cuff,no tests,just" it ain,t the problem". Then proceeds to
prescribe more meds to a patient with a compromised liver and one kidney meds that should not be used in this situation. Then my husband is sent to
two hospitals where the Dr.s ignore mention of all of this, give more meds that eventually destroy my husbands only kidney,resulting in a fatal heart
attack. The day before he died, during a "team meeting" I was asked, "Can you tell us more about your husband so we can get to know him, what is he
to his community, his family?" After the meeting it was mentioned that his kidney was not functioning well and atransplant might be needed, I replied
that since I had two kidneys, giving one of mine would not be a problem. (At this point dialysis had not even been mentioned.) The next morning they
call and say he took a turn for the worse last night, you need to come asap.We get half way there and get another call saying he's had a heart
attack. He died that afternoon. My feeling is if I fall down just leave me alone until the twitching stops. The only Justice I see in this world is
that sooner or later those involved will be treating each other.

(1) - The quality of care can vary greatly depending on what insurance you have. For example, I really don't have too many complaints about my
insurance. The provide pretty decent coverage. I do happen to work for a large firm. My friend works for a much smaller firm. He has the same
carrier I do - but it is horrible for him. They don't want to pay for hardly anything.

(2) - Because of my parents are elderly I've noticed that ripping medicare off is a huge business.

I am retired and pay a pretty good chunk of change for insurance. I still have a big co pay...this is because the government has taken all the free
enterprise out of health care...Even though I pay for my health care too many people do not...they rely on the government in one program or the other
to pay for them...something for nothing.

People say free health care would be a good idea...I want to know how is it free? doesn't someone have to pay for it? Surely they do not mean that
the government should steal more money from the working class to pay for 'FREE" healthcare. It is not the governments job to take care of people
from cradle to grave...I do not belong to the government yet they act as though I am a slave to be worked for my wages then told to be happy with what
I have left. Meanwhile people are fed, clothed, educated, provided healthcare for nothing, people who have never paid a penny tax....get government
out of healthcare completely and the price will go down .

1. You get an automatic reduction in medical costs because all those expensive trips to the hospital that people can't afford and wind up declaring
medical bankruptcy over now don't get pushed onto the ones who have insurance.

2. It's the same principle as working for a large firm. Insurance rates with larger companies are better and the coverages are better because you
have a larger pot of people paying in to the system; there's more people to help cushion against the costs of the really sick. Now imagine this
principle exploded to the point where we have millions and millions of people paying into that system AND that system doesn't have to turn a
profit.

People talk about right and blah-blah. My embracing of it is from a utility and self-interest standpoint for the most part.

To have medical care offered at profit is morally wrong. To allow a system that bankrupts families and our nation is morally wrong. It is part of the
beast, and we as a nation, sit quietly by as tens of millions of our own citizens suffer financial catastrophe simply to support huge profis of
ravenous wolves.

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