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When do you consider a dog fully FF?

I have a 7 month old BLF and I have been following the Lardy Program. I have used ear pinch to teach fetch and have moved through all three steps outlined in Lardy’s program: ear pinch starting close all the way down to the ground, walking fetch and stick fetch.

I am trying to understand from those experienced with FF as to when you consider the dog fully FF. What behaviors do you expect the dog to exhibit when you say “this dog is successfully FF”? Or what type of behaviors does the dog exhibit when you say more FF work is required?

This is where I am at:
I have done stick fetch twice and she hasn’t refused to pick up a bumper and didn’t drop a bumper when tapped with the stick.

However when I throw bumpers for marks or just fun bumpers, occasionally (5% of the time) she will run to the bumper not pick it up, sniff around or even sit and look at me. I will command fetch while walking towards her. She doesn't immediately pick it up but as I get closer she runs and gets the bumper.

Secondly when she returns with a bumper I am working on front finish. I will command HOLD, HOLD and SIT (sometimes a whistle blast). She will sit but drops the bumper 80% of the time. When I command FETCH she almost always picks it up and I gently tell her to hold and she does until I take the bumper. If there is any refusal to pick the bumper up all I have to do is touch her ear and she quickly grabs the bumper.

Should I consider my dog FF and move on to simple casting using the occasional ear pinch when warranted or do I need to continue with stick fetch using ear pinch on every refusal?

She is not fully force fetched until she will pickup the bumper, even under adverse circumstances, and hold it until you take it from her. From your description you you are not ready for stick fetch, sounds like you may need help.

Similar, I think ff is done after the double T. I want them to have to gone through old burns with piles to either side without popping, flaring (very much) and to have done no goes with subsequent corrections.

So to me ff is a process, a major part of basics.

Howard NiemiYou really gotta be careful about how high a pedestal you put your method, your accomplishments, your dog on. There's usually someone who's done more, somewhere. And they may have used a different method than you did! Chris Atkinson 2013

A basic FF is typically 6 weeks. However that is just to get them fetching off the ground, with a solid hold 90% of the time. If the dog is dropping it 80% of the time, its not through basic. FF is really done after FTP, T work and doing pattern field. That is where the dog really demonstrates all the varying skills basic FF teaches.

That is true, I've got my pup to the point where he doesn't drop it at all when he brings it back from a marked retrieve and from there we move on to some obedience while he is still holding the bumper, heel,sit, here and sending him to place. Next will be FTP and some T work.

When returning with a crippled bird and a cackling rooster pheasant gets up in front of the dog 6 guys empty out shooting at it and dump it in a cloud of feathers blown to heck and you get your cripple.

.....However when I throw bumpers for marks or just fun bumpers, occasionally (5% of the time) she will run to the bumper not pick it up, sniff around or even sit and look at me. I will command fetch while walking towards her. She doesn't immediately pick it up but as I get closer she runs and gets the bumper.

Secondly when she returns with a bumper I am working on front finish. I will command HOLD, HOLD and SIT (sometimes a whistle blast). She will sit but drops the bumper 80% of the time. When I command FETCH she almost always picks it up and I gently tell her to hold and she does until I take the bumper. If there is any refusal to pick the bumper up all I have to do is touch her ear and she quickly grabs the bumper.
?

Sir,
Madam,
Clay????
in my most nicest, not trying to put you down but help you tone.....
this dog is training you. has you wraped round her finger (paw)
I second Ed, anyone near you
you need a live person at your side not a keyboard. what part of the world are you at?
we aint stalkers

"So what is big is not always the Trout nor the Deer but the chance, the being there. And what is full is not necessarily the creel nor the freezer, but the memory." ~ Aldo Leopold

"The Greatest Obstacle to Discovery is not Ignorance -- It is the Illusion of Knowledge" ~ Daniel Boorstin