There simply isn't enough money to be made for UP to allow passenger trains to use its rails for the event. And the delivery of the cargo to the playa would be complicated... Unplaced theme camps, for instance, would have no idea where they are going until they get there. And well have you ever been looking for someplace on playa?

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I'm sorry to have to be increasingly blunt, but, pick an art car, large installation, or any of the ~700 theme camps. Guess what:

They're more important than you. Or me. Or my individual camp.

Black Rock City isn't built for you or I to decide what's important. It's built BY burners in "camps"--or whatever they want to call their community--70% of whom don't appear to have tickets this year. They build it because they think it's important. And they have as much investment in the city as you or I. If theme camps weren't important, Marian wouldn't be on the fucking radio, and Andie Grace wouldn't be on the blog, talking about how radically important theme camps are to Burning Man.

The airport is in real trouble right now. They're so well-organized they actually got the FAA to put 88NV (in HAM, "Hugs and kisses from Nevada") on the map. It's the ONLY part-time private airport on public land in America. Each year, the airport crew donates HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS in combined flights gifted to hundreds, if not thousands, or Burners. It costs $100/hr for a pilot to take three passengers on a sightseeing trip around the city. The FAA has declared it one of the best-run private airfields in Nevada, serving the third largest city, but when you get there they will have been out there for weeks grading the runway surface and preparing the greeting booth, UNICOM tower and passenger lounges. They require a certain amount of participation to make sure that some jackass doesn't taxi his airplane into somebody's camp or flip the plane turning final and auger, AGAIN. It's not a "Let's start in January" kind of deal...it's taken them YEARS of sweat equity to pull this off.

To say that they're "not that important" is irrelevant, if not asinine. Thousands of people have gotten to fly around the city because of them. They're gifting to the community a whole, whole hell of a lot more to the community than an equal amount of unaffiliated burners. I've "hauled my ass to the playa" before, but, it's not the same as going down two weeks early and scraping a mile of playa serpents off the deck to make a runway such that somebody doesn't collapse a nose wheel and fireball. They don't have ice, or Center Camp, or coffee-slingers. They Rely on themSelves. Buying an airplane ticket, winning a lottery, renting a car, throwing a bunch of camping shit in it and driving to Burning Man just isn't the same. That's just camping. I encourage you to do that as often as possible.

Last edited by ZaphodBurner on Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

ZaphodBurner wrote:If theme camps weren't important, Marian wouldn't be on the fucking radio, and Andie Grace wouldn't be on the blog, talking about how radically important theme camps are to Burning Man.

thats PR.

they are telling people what they want to hear.. people wanted an apology, they got one, people wanted to be made to feel that their gripes were heard, and they replied to those gripes

the community is the important thing, not the shit they bring.... they were trying to make the community feel happy.

that PR work was aimed at the people, the community ..not art projects or mutant vehicles or theme camps.. the people.

sure, people might BRING those art projects.. but without the people theres no projects, no theme camps and no mutant vehicles.

I disagree. No specific camp, specific mutant vehicle, or specific artwork is irreplaceable (maybe The Man is the sole exception). There's been many great camps that have come and gone, but every one that has disappeared has allowed another one to take its place. You seem to have an affection for the airport, and I agree, it is well run, and an awesome feature to have. But if the airport doesn't make it this year, It'll be different, certainly, but BM-BRC will still go on to some degree.

"It's built BY burners in "camps"" - not necessarily. I've met plenty of Burners who have done walk-in camping, or carved out 50 square feet of unclaimed space, parked their vehicle and put up a tent next to it. They bring their music instrument or home made gift to share with whomever they meet. PEOPLE make up the character of BM, whether they clan together in a camp or village, or go solo with nothing but the pack on their backs.

It may be that 70% of the community doesn't have tickets to BM-BRC, but that doesn't mean you can't be a burner. There will be 50,000 people on the Playa this year, maybe not all as experienced and wise as you, but I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to them (until proven otherwise). I was a rookie amongst the 24,000 in 2004 , where I was welcomed (certainly wasn't sneered upon), and I've been contributing ever since.

I'm irked by the 'BM won't happen if WE aren't there' attitude, and also the implied 'the only place we can be Burn-ey is a desert 100 miles north of Reno' 'tude.

cthulhu wrote:The more I read, the more I worry that I am one of the "guilty" ones, because I don't have a definitive Participation Plan yet. I want to help out, but time/space constraints mean that helping from the other side of the country means I probably wouldn't be able to contribute until I got there, and Early Entry is rather limited.

I didn't do shit my first year... I ran-off with some boy I met literally on day-one and showed up back at camp on the last day to find that the entire camp had been torn down without me and my friends had even packed my tent and gear into the truck....

Now, imagine 20,000 people doing that this year. Maybe this person had extra circumstances, but most don't, and your "friends" are going to be tired and depressed and wiped out and they're not going to want to pack their OWN shit, let alone your shit, regardless of cool you think your new friend is. They're probably want to know why your new BFF isn't helping you pack your shit while they're packing it for you. They'll wonder why in hell they saved space for you, crowded in just a little bit tighter, if you and your new beau weren't actually even going to grace them with your company. Then, because it's Black Rock City, when you show up they'll give you a warm hug, tell you it's alright, and let it go. If we can just get 20,000 more people like this to radically rely on their friends, it'll be BETTER than last year.

Cthulu, for the love of BRC, don't be that guy. The city needs YOU to participate. Get in touch with groups/camps/communities/villages/new friends/regional teams/BRCPO (camp)/Arctica(camp)/the airport (camp), deliver newspapers (camp), etc, and get involved. Commit to something greater than yourself. The first time I organized a camp--Zaphod, in 2005--only 3 of the 15 were veterans. We build a castle during the dust storm on Monday while other camps holed up or blew away. The virgins worked just as hard, and had as much fun. Different people come and go, but we're the same core. In fact, we started a rock band and recorded a record. 100% of the virgins and veterans will tell you it was WORTH IT. Two girls came up and started jamming on the drums, we had about 30 people dancing on the castle, strangers fucking in our shower, my friend was fixing people's bikes. We were camped right across from the GLOM, which had the Death-totter, Stairway to Heaven, Orgasmatron. Near "make your own pizza camp." Absolutely perfect day. I had articles published in the Black Rock Gazette (a camp) that day and completely forgot to go get copies. Behind us, some individual pitched his tent next to our generator, bitched about the noise during our scheduled public event, and left bags of trash next to our camp when he left.

If you want to participate, bring and cup and encourage others to do so as well. The playa doesn't need anymore red plastic cups. Tell people you're a virgin looking for something to do, and the city will embrace you. Got any special skills?

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

ZaphodBurner wrote:If theme camps weren't important, Marian wouldn't be on the fucking radio, and Andie Grace wouldn't be on the blog, talking about how radically important theme camps are to Burning Man.

thats PR.

they are telling people what they want to hear.. people wanted an apology, they got one, people wanted to be made to feel that their gripes were heard, and they replied to those gripes

the community is the important thing, not the shit they bring.... they were trying to make the community feel happy.d.

Oh, so, you speak for the Org now, too.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

cthulhu wrote:The more I read, the more I worry that I am one of the "guilty" ones, because I don't have a definitive Participation Plan yet. I want to help out, but time/space constraints mean that helping from the other side of the country means I probably wouldn't be able to contribute until I got there, and Early Entry is rather limited.

Yeah....so, I'm gonna need you to come in on Sunday and work on that Participation Plan. Looks like you have a couple missing TPS reports too, so if you could have those wrapped up as well, that would be great....

sorry, just trying to lighten the mood. Now, back to Zaphod's lecture...

idunno if our emotions are running high or our intelligence is running low..

whatever it may be! it sure does make for some good readin!

we rarely get to discuss "what burning man is" amongst ourselves..at least not at length..

we normally save that for people whove never been..

so, people.. might be pissed (could be that they probably arent) ..emotions might be running high (could just be people who are passionate).. but whatever it is.. we are figuring out what we all think it means to do this shit.

clerkkent wrote:"They're more important than you. Or me. Or my individual camp. "

I disagree. No specific camp, specific mutant vehicle, or specific artwork is irreplaceable (maybe The Man is the sole exception). There's been many great camps that have come and gone, but every one that has disappeared has allowed another one to take its place. You seem to have an affection for the airport, and I agree, it is well run, and an awesome feature to have. But if the airport doesn't make it this year, It'll be different, certainly, but BM-BRC will still go on to some degree.

Clerk, I agree with your general idea and respect your opinion. You are absolutely right that for every great camp that goes, another great camp takes its place. Camps. I'm glad that Spike's, Bianca's and the Deep End weren't replaced by an equal number of RVs with artificial turf under the awnings and tiki torches delineating their camp area.

How many "awesome features" that take years of planning and adaptation is BRC ready to lose?

I'm referring to the airport because it's been years-long labor of love for a large community of people, and when people just randomly -crashed- that party, some of them died. The idea that somebody who shows up, abandons camp because he/she meets a boy, comes back a week later and finds that somebody has packed the camp up for him/her--that that's "irreplaceable," is inaccurate. The airport is an extreme example but we can't just go "Well, fuck all THEIR year-round hard work. I'm just as important, and I WANT to go." The airport is increasingly how a lot of people GET to Burning Man.

I have four stamped BRCPO postcards on my wall showing the temples, the city, the serpent mother, and a photo of the city from the air... Nobody's interested in postcards of goggled hipsters on bikes, which I am. People aren't having postcards with pictures of me mailed around the world. The BRCPO is not going to be replaced by an equal number of people serving each other hamburgers and beer.

I'm done criticizing the Org and more interested in helping them get through this, but, it seems like people are trying to argue that what everybody admits was a DISASTER is somehow making it better. I feel like I'm in Gulfport listening to British Petroleum PR. Except, this time, BP is graciously admitting the mistake and scrambling to solve the problem, and all the people on the beach are saying "Well, we don't NEED seafood."

In November people tried to warn everybody that the lottery system was aiming straight for an iceberg, and were summarily dismissed. Those who tried to say "We fucking told you so!" are being blown off again.

Tens of thousands of new burners aren't going because they heard about what Larry Harvey did on Baker Beach. They're going because they heard about what happened last year--I wasn't there/this isn't about me--and the year before that. Everybody who's trying to sell me on the idea that it'll be better when it gets back to its roots, strangely enough, wasn't there. The Org is shitting itself, and I know this by virtue of the fact that they're saying so, and I still trust them.

Without prior planning and organization there is no Black Rock City at all, so, the logical extension of something interesting taking its place is 50,000 people showing up on the desert to camp, which they can do anytime they want. They choose not to. People aren't spending a thousand dollars each to go to something that isn't Black Rock City and if they are, they should give up their tickets because the Burner community is overflowing with citizen participants who want to go the the Black Rock City they know and love with people they know and love.

I have said my piece. We hope to have root beer in the 9 o'clock area for you to come up and tell me I'm an asshole or whatever, but, make sure you bring a cup because we're not going to let you leave thirsty!

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

I thought the airport was it's own department, and as such were getting staff tickets. I'm not sure why I thought this, though.

I'm done criticizing the Org and more interested in helping them get through this, but, it seems like people are trying to argue that what everybody admits was a DISASTER is somehow making it better. I feel like I'm in Gulfport listening to British Petroleum PR. Except, this time, BP is graciously admitting the mistake and scrambling to solve the problem, and all the people on the beach are saying "Well, we don't NEED seafood."

I think your analogy is a bit unfair. Frankly, if people are only going there because they want to dance at the Deep End, maybe we won't miss them. The way I see it there are two possibilities if the theme camps don't show up (which isn't a given, I think that several theme camps have declared there going no matter what.)1- smaller theme camps fill in the gaps with awesomeness and everyone wins2- nothing fills in the gaping hole in our collective hearts, this year sucks, less people go next year (less demand is a different type of "win" but I'm still going to count it as a positive for the people who do go)

In November people tried to warn everybody that the lottery system was aiming straight for an iceberg, and were summarily dismissed. Those who tried to say "We fucking told you so!" are being blown off again.

Another analogy I don't think is completely fair. The FCFS system was heading for an iceberg. The Org pulled a Crazy Ivan, shit's all up in the air, we'll see what lands where. The lottery MIGHT have screwed the event up, leaving the old system in place WOULD have screwed the event up. It's easy to not listen to people who are saying "See! It's all screwed up!" (for me, at least) because they have been saying that since the moment the term "lottery" was announced, before there were any details. The reasons why it's all screwed up have changed, but the statements are exactly the same otherwise. To me, that indicates that people have a pre-conceived idea, and they are finding the facts that fit it. Also, since there are so few facts available, it's almost all conjecture.

The Org is shitting itself, and I know this by virtue of the fact that they're saying so, and I still trust them.

Holy fuck am I glad I don't have their job.

I have said my piece. We hope to have root beer in the 9 o'clock area for you to come up and tell me I'm an asshole or whatever, but, make sure you bring a cup because we're not going to let you leave thirsty!

My opinions are different than yours, but I respect the thought and effort you put into expressing them. I will definitely bring a cup (maybe something else that goes well with Root Beer to share with you) and we can sit there and call each other assholes or hug or teach all those noobies about leaving no trace... together. Together. On Playa.

ZaphodBurner wrote:The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.

A Jester wrote:My opinions are different than yours, but I respect the thought and effort you put into expressing them. I will definitely bring a cup (maybe something else that goes well with Root Beer to share with you) and we can sit there and call each other assholes or hug or teach all those noobies about leaving no trace... together. Together. On Playa.

See you there, friend! This is my wake-up music, when the playa and hills turn the color of fire, the air is still cool, and the sun rises over the city:

"No, don't seek controlAnd the milk of Heaven will flowWhy would you want to keep this from anyone?Please, please, on my knees,My heart is on my sleeve, and all I needis just one little taste of it..." -Floater

I dont speak for Airport or CSD.. and its been quite a few years now...but I do know that when I expressed interest in volunteering for Airport a few years ago their policy mentioned that they did not grant free entry or early entry.. Things may have changed since then, I don't volunteer with them so I dont know..

as an infrastructure camp i presume they get help from burning man itself and are in no danger of not showing up... but like the other volunteer groups of burning man.(as mentioned in the blog post by Andie Grace) .... they might be having problems getting enough volunteers to make it happen... just like everyone else is..

as a part of the infrastructure that makes up burning man..the way i see it, i would be of the opinion that they really dont have a choice to just 'not go' ...so many camps and projects are struggling with this question right now.. I dont believe the infrastructure depts are ... they are probably struggling with how to fill their ranks with hard working skilled volunteers..

Well, interesting issues raised, I think the main one being that Burning Man has come to a certain point in time where identity and the sum of all effort up to this point in creating that identity are in question. And that (arguably) this identity is a very direct result of strong community/participant support to build it to the image in which we all think (expect ?) it to be. So yeah, the airport is a great thing. Yeah, Opulent Temple is a great thing to many. Pulling off these theme camps (or attractions or infrastructure, however you want to interpret) is a huge amount of work that is donated by the participants, not paid for or supported (much) by the org. Regarding the airport, there is a container stored at the ranch with airport supplies. There may be 1 or 2 staff tickets, but otherwise all of the effort is fully volunteer through participants who buy tickets. Regarding Opulent Temple, everyone in the camp buys tickets, the "superstar" DJ's buy their own tickets, rent their own RVs and participate, just like the rest of us. There could be a lot of what is currently known as Burning Man that is contributed by camps/groups/whatever that will not happen this year. Which may be just fine and actually a good thing. This may be the last year on the playa, which I would welcome. Time to flee the nest and take over the world.

I started the first airport in '97 with Eric and Lisa, I've been a member of OT for 5 years. I am somewhat biased towards"theme camps", but only in that I find them fun to be a part of a group effort to build cool shit. I equally embrace the chaos of showing up in the open canvas of the playa with what you have and making things happen. We'll see what happens this year. Good thing to not know what is coming, so boring otherwise.

AMEN BROTHA!!! I've been staying away from the eplaya for a little while because of this whole ticket fiasco. I started out feeling like a big piece of poop because I'm a virgin but was lucky enough to receive tickets. But now I'm back in the spirit and can't wait to get my feet in the playa dust!

"One good thing about music: When it hits you - you feel no pain" - Bob Marley

aka'aka wrote:Awesome post/thread... This will be my second burn and i plan on volunteering an helping any camps around ours that needs it.

My unasked for 2 cents: find someone to volunteer with NOW. Or soonish. Don't wait till you're on playa to find someone who needs help. Right now theme camps are concerned because they don't have the bodies they need. Be someone they can count on and plan around.

Brianna_Beauty413 wrote:AMEN BROTHA!!! I've been staying away from the eplaya for a little while because of this whole ticket fiasco. I started out feeling like a big piece of poop because I'm a virgin but was lucky enough to receive tickets. But now I'm back in the spirit and can't wait to get my feet in the playa dust!

Oh dear. The worst thing you can do is be less a part of the community. Don't feel like a poop at all, and please don't let our bickering keep you off of ePlaya. People here need you.

ZaphodBurner wrote:The difference between buying a ticket from a scalper and prostituting yourself for one is, if you suck dick for a ticket and brag about it, burners will still respect you.

ClerkKent- Please let my know if you run for any office, EVER (I want to vote for you)

AJester- I also wawnt to have sex with this post

cthluhu- I recomend that you contact your regional Burning Man representative for ideas. I hear we just got 2 more Reps in my area (Sacramento) & I'll be contacting them on Tuesday to let them know what kind of assistance I am looking for because,

ZaphodBurner- My camp will be stepping up to help fill the void. You & this post have inspired me to launch the Bartery as a bigger/better camp fueled by virgins.

Brianna_Beauty413 wrote: I started out feeling like a big piece of poop because I'm a virgin but was lucky enough to receive tickets. But now I'm back in the spirit and can't wait to get my feet in the playa dust!

Well, don't waste energy on Survivor's Guilt because we're not dead yet! You entered the lottery with as much chance of success or failure as anybody else. I don't have a ticket, but, I don't begrudge you whatsoever. I'm happy for you, actually, because you're here, excited, and not wondering if Ibiza or Hedonism would be better.

There are two types of virgin burners:

* Those who've read and re-read the Survivor's Guide without ever having set hands on a physical copy (not to mention everything else Burning Man-related) and are already freaked out about how they're going to participate.

* Those who for whatever reason don't know or care what a Survival Guide is. They're not part of this discussion, or they're not taking it seriously.

Neither group really has any -idea- what they're actually in for, but, this year, for the first time, the veterans don't either so we're all a little bit revirginized. It's going to be fucking awesome!.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

KestrelSF wrote: Who knows, maybe one really sucky year will dampen interest next year and things will be better. The last couple of years were almost "too easy" in some ways. We didn't even have a decent dust storm last year. One way of looking at this is it's a metaphorical dust storm that's shaking things loose.

Love it. Maybe so, you know it is gonna be super dusty this year!

I agree that the tier pricing should now be done away with. It worked until July 2011. Now it is part of BM lore.