Until they adapt their UI to offer similar experience like the big two players they will not gain new adopters. Dock Icons, Grid App drawer, "original" icons instead of monochromatic (or even the smallest tile to be replaced by original icon of the app), etc... The OS in its core is not comparable with Android (its much better), but simply people are refusing the new experience (like it was w8). Microsoft now are just stubborn and are trying to push that "we are different" in a non sense way.
Live tiles on W10 desktop? Does anyone use them?
sorry about my bad english and maybe confusing post

I hope you are Right... But I have yet to see any DEV temptations for the Universal Windows App platform... They are going further into iOS/Android with this. I think The future is that MS is an enterprise company and the few Consumer products that it will have will be usable apps/services on iOS/Android only with WP in eternal beta with no App support.

Originally Posted by Hutzi

Maybe I didn't express myself correctly. I still think Windows mobile (desktop there can't be any doubt) is the FAR superior operating system. For various reasons you all know. Not only is it the CURRENT best OS but also their vision for the FUTURE is superior and best thought out.

Also one must not forget that 10 mobile is yet another reboot. This time they WILL make it right because they have a master plan (UWP+ WAAS). This time they not only want to create a good and productive mobile OS, they also want to create a robust and future proof infrastructure beneath it. So from now on Windows (mobile) will flourish. This is why the platform will take off now. There are so many people just waiting to ditch their terrible, unreliable and overpowered Android phones and their incredibly boring iOS devices for something more productive and robust.

Obviously a lot of things are still missing or things are not aligned properly but the core purpose and functions are usable and inconsistencies in the UI are not necessarily realized by the average consumer. Also, THIS is why we have the insider program! WE can shape this OS to a certain extent. This is the point from where everything else builds (pun intended) upon.

Meanwhile look at iOS users. They tend to be more interesting than Android users because they care a lot and identify with the philosophy of Apple to fullest, even more than some of us do with Windows. If Apple would downgrade iCloud there would be no uprisal or protest. Never. There is always a legit reason for Apple to take decisions. Do NOT question this as a faithful iSheep!

Well look at Apple's strategy. It is the exact opposite of the ONE Windows pursues. Creating more and more small OS's (latest example TVos) and splitting their eco system into a thousand pieces instead of aligning it. It may have certain advantages in the short term (TVos for example can evolve faster when it is is own OS) but in the long term Windows will take the lead. The UWP is just too tempting for developers. In three years from now the Windows store WILL have the better and more productive apps and Apple's store will still have the newest indie games and lifestyle/trend apps. The average 13 year old will STILL want the newest iPhone. The average over-20-year-old will not. Apple's devices will broaden it's Justin Bieber type of fan base where the age average sits at around 15-16sh. And that's being nice. At some point Apple's operating system WILL have to go universal if they don't want their OSX Store to just sit there and die. IF they DO go down that path, which they will have to also because of more efficient resource management, I would bet on their unified system being more iOS like than OSX like. 80% percent of their revenue comes from the iPhone and in the end OSX is also primarily for internet browsing and media consumption.

By then though, Windows will have established their Operating System and the eco system around it to the point where it will be impossible to catch up. Big names will be present in the store, the bridges will be used to port existing apps and the go to place for any program will... be the windows store.

To iPhone users saying their "iOS device just works" personally I would say "Yes. Your iPhone works. As it has always done in its very simplistic pitiful existence. It is essentially an app drawer with a lockscreen on top of it. Congratulations!" A door also "just works". That doesn't mean a portal would be way cooler! ;)

MS has said windows is now a service so it will be a perpetual evolvement never a total finished product. Deal with it.

I think you should deal with the fact that nobody's going to put up with a crashy, buggy OS and UI on a phone, sitting on a retail store display. Customers will just walk over to the next phone on display.

Just like the title says, I believe that the current build or even the next one won't be RTM ready. I am not talking about performance, I am talking about the UI & UX of W10M. The UI is a mess (specially with all the gray color used everywhere).
I mean how do they say it is ready if Cortana is still using the Bing mobile site to show search result.
Users notice the UI first.if the Ui is a mess, don't expect the OS to be a success.

I feel sad for the current state of W10M.
I wish MS. would do something about their UI team.

ok...i didn't meant literally no one, but most people around me, as I can notice are using them simply as shortcuts to applications. Nothing more. Same as icons on desktop. They would be much more useful if we could stick some of them on desktop. (as widgets). Anyhow...maybe I'm wrong on this...

Yep windows 10 Mobile UI still look like an alpha version then again I'm not expecting any hard work from them I gave up I have zero expectations for Microsoft to do some real work on windows mobile for another 2 years

Yep windows 10 Mobile UI still look like an alpha version then again I'm not expecting any hard work from them I gave up I have zero expectations for Microsoft to do some real work on windows mobile for another 2 years

I want to know why MS allows so many alpha grade testers into the Insider program.

Wow. Somebody's just annoyed as me over this sluggish flashlight toggle! Even my homie noticed when we REALLY had to use it at night in the park... And then I get these questions again from fellow iPhone users: "How can you live with a constant work and progress on your phone? My iPhone JUST works!" Well.... what do we answer to these type of questions guys.....?

Well you could tell them that your phone is running unfinished beta software... Which is precisely the reason I'm running it on a backup device, not my daily driver.

^This^. The last few years Microsoft has struggled greatly in the consumer mobile division, but they are a trend setter in enterprise products. My boss was to the MVP Global Summit last week, and it was interesting to hear his report what all is going on there (mostly in the department of our focus). Enterprise is where the money is for Microsoft, which is why that is their focus. I can certainly understand the business decision behind a Surface phone, and not caring much about phones for consumers (assuming the rumors are true).

Well you could tell them that your phone is running unfinished beta software...

Haha. I have numerous times. They know. Some people just don't understand why you should do this. Especially iOS users. Most of them just think a OS just magically appears and works perfectly just like everything else Apple does...

Yeah it's kind of pointless to have so many alpha testers who send trillion feedback on every part of the OS when you don't listen to them

You do understand that the user base right now is so fragmented that if MS tried to please everyone that they would never be able to release anything. The OS would be 100 GBs and people would just moan that it takes up too much space.

You do understand that the user base right now is so fragmented that if MS tried to please everyone that they would never be able to release anything. The OS would be 100 GBs and people would just moan that it takes up too much space.

If Microsoft worked hard on WP there won't be any need to moan about anything but they are incompetent, lazy, careless, slow company ONLY WHEN IT COMES TO WP. Sorry I like them but that's the truth they are a sloth on WP but extremely competitive in other MS departments

You do understand that the user base right now is so fragmented that if MS tried to please everyone that they would never be able to release anything. The OS would be 100 GBs and people would just moan that it takes up too much space.

They don't need to please everyone. They need to offer a product that is finished / polished on a level of the competitors. An because with their small base of users, they can not change "general habits of mobile experience" - they need to offer similar experience (or to offer something breakthrough like Apple did with introducing of iPhone)
My opinion is that different UI experience is bigger problem than app gap. Most of the people I think, are not so demanding about the apps.

Yeah it's kind of pointless to have so many alpha testers who send trillion feedback on every part of the OS when you don't listen to them

Problem is that valid suggestions get overshadowed by complaints. And they leave feedback that has already been fixed. So it's always at the top. The default search order is trending. No one even sees anything else. I have great suggestions that people on reddit have agreed with but it's buried. Plus sometimes they should not count based on votes but use their own judgment on what's good. But doubt they even see it. They need to cater to things that May appeal to ios/android fans not just ms fans. Like most people I have spoken to think the live folders make the screen too busy . So I suggested a method for dynamic/static configurations and I mentioned how it can be done per folder during creation and a simple toggle in edit mode . But it has like one vote . But every person I have ever shown it to in person doesn't like it. Phone reps, friends on other platforms. So yeah again that's a big subset of users.

Problem is that valid suggestions get overshadowed by complaints. And they leave feedback that has already been fixed. So it's always at the top. The default search order is trending. No one even sees anything else. I have great suggestions that people on reddit have agreed with but it's buried. Plus sometimes they should not count based on votes but use their own judgment on what's good. But doubt they even see it. They need to cater to things that May appeal to ios/android fans not just ms fans. Like most people I have spoken to think the live folders make the screen too busy . So I suggested a method for dynamic/static configurations and I mentioned how it can be done per folder during creation and a simple toggle in edit mode . But it has like one vote . But every person I have ever shown it to in person doesn't like it. Phone reps, friends on other platforms. So yeah again that's a big subset of users.

I love the live folders. Maybe no one else has as big an issue as you think. Everyone I talk to likes it.

Just like the title says, I believe that the current build or even the next one won't be RTM ready. I am not talking about performance, I am talking about the UI & UX of W10M. The UI is a mess (specially with all the gray color used everywhere).
I mean how do they say it is ready if Cortana is still using the Bing mobile site to show search result.
Users notice the UI first.if the Ui is a mess, don't expect the OS to be a success.

I feel sad for the current state of W10M.
I wish MS. would do something about their UI team.

What do u guys think?

Hi Rafael,
I understand that you (and lots of WP fans) are disappointed with the new UI/Design.
That why we are the hipsters who use an OS with the design language so different from other platforms. Lots of us love black&white. It looks like we're using the mobile
version of MS-DOS.
And don't get me wrong, I LIKE it. But it's just not the taste of most users.
The new design is absolutely needed if WM is to attract more users. Design is about satisfying the majority.
So if you hope MS are going back to the old design, you're out of luck.
As for Cortana, you know it's powered by Bing right? They're the SAME thing. You can change the default search engine on the browser thought.

I never own, use, hold, touch or test WP/WM. I do like the os but what me don't go to MS mobile ecosystem is hardware and its price not UI or apps. You can buy many 2/3GB RAM Android phone with price start from $100. Windows phone look overprice especially low to midrange.

Windows 10 on the desktop has already been released. And it is a buggy, unfinished, unpolished turd. What people are worried about is that the same thing will happen on mobile, where MS isn't a market leader and doesn't have the luxury of doing anything short of hitting it out of the park.

Well said there! Windows 10 as it is now on the desktop is nothing but never ending bugs, broken KB updates, totally not optimized tablet mode etc etc...and windows 10 on the phones is nothing more than a shrinked down PC UI, nothing in place with an amateur design template. This is the result of Nadella's layoff actions within MS. MS has lost the quality it once had. starting with the customer support which is absolutely terrible, zero! value, zero! knowledge and ending with the products we discuss over here and the lack of respect paid to customers.
We are almost at the release of public build for windows 10 mobile and the OS is still running like a snail on most of the devices, besides the last quad core 930,1520,icon ones. I've personally seen the last build running on 920,1020,735,640 and 830 and comparing to 8.1 is slow, very slow, sluggish.
Dreamers here expect perfection from MS in a few weeks :)). I thought until now that Apple delivered the worst beta OS ever with their IOS 8.0 beta series, but it seems that MS has managed to beat them at least in one aspect: worst beta OS :))) almost a year in 3 months and the mobile OS is still as it is...and some here expect devs to simply dive in and make apps :)). Keep waiting my friends...at this rate you'll see some improvements in app situation in at least a year from now, if that's ever gonna happen...