They'll be lucky to finish .500. Astros should definately be ahead of then. Dodgers and Phillies as well. Hell, 29 teams shoud be ahead of them.

gogosoxgogo

03-24-2003, 06:13 PM

I just realized I wasnt clear in that post - I meant the Cubs, not the Sox.

czalgosz

03-24-2003, 06:48 PM

People forget that this is a team that lost 95 games last year and made no major moves over the offseason.

Is Dusty Baker worth 30 wins all by himself? Because it seems that's what people are saying.

Sure, if everything breaks right for the Cubs, they could go places, but that's true for about 25 teams out there. I don't see what's so special about them.

DrCrawdad

03-24-2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by ChiWhiteSox1337
http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/stark_jayson/1528685.html

LOL, atleast the white sox got down to the final 2

Wanna bet that IF the Cubs were to win the NL Central one of the things that we'd hear is that 'everyone said that we'd be lousy...' or 'no one gave us a shot' Overlooking the fact that the Cubs are the darlings of Gammons and now Stark.

I found his comment on Loiaza interesting. Couldn't the same thing be said about Cub pitcher Estes?

Last year Clement & Wood both had career years. What's to say Clement & Wood will match or surpass last year?

I've heard many people say that Wood would have had many more wins if not for the Cubbie pen. Without a doubt that was true, but that doesn't explain it all on Wood. Wood was also taken out of quite a few times early in games because of high pitch counts. No doubt too the lousy Cub offense didn't help, but Colon won 10 games on the stinking Indians last year.

Then there is Zambrano. Some Cub fans talk as if this guy is a sure thing. But last year I remember hearing the same talk about Bere and Juan Cruz.

ssang

03-24-2003, 07:32 PM

Jayson Stark should be embarrased that he ever wrote this piece for ESPN. The Cubs offense is still one of the worst in baseball, and that's WITH the All-mighty Sammy Sosa in the lineup! This team will go .500 and that's being generous. They will NEVER win the NL East this year. We are all now stupider for having read his article.

TheBigHurt

03-24-2003, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by gogosoxgogo
They'll be lucky to finish .500. Astros should definately be ahead of then. Dodgers and Phillies as well. Hell, 29 teams shoud be ahead of them.

hell the PHILLIES are going to be solid this year to say the least, with the solid Pitching stafff...dam the NL better watch out

BE GOOD

FanOf14

03-24-2003, 08:16 PM

I gagged on that article. What is with all this lovin' the scrubbies are getting from the media? I don't care that they get more media, but these articles I've read are full of fluff and lack any fact whatsoever. Like another poster said, they lost 95 or so games last year, did relatively little in the off season and now because they have Dusty they are going to the World Series?! :?:

PUHLEEZE! :angry:

Lip Man 1

03-24-2003, 08:59 PM

A few points...

One, Stark never made that comment on Loazia... a GM did.

Two, I disagree with his contention that the Cubs will (could) be this year's Anaheim.

Three, but that doesn't take away from the consensus about the Sox does it?

From the column: "The White Sox are an intriguing team, all right -- especially on a $52-million payroll. But our panelists have questions about the rotation beyond Colon and Buehrle.

"Esteban Loaiza?" gulped one GM. "You're not going to the playoffs counting on that guy."

There are also concerns the White Sox didn't significantly address a team defense that allowed 82 unearned runs last year -- second-most in baseball (to Detroit).

And the other question our panelists had was what one GM described as "clubhouse volatility." That drug-testing brouhaha once again raised significant questions about their clubhouse chemistry, and about manager Jerry Manuel's ability to control it.

When you contrast the lack of rotation depth, defense and chemistry of the White Sox with the abundance the Twins have of all of the above, it's hard to make a case for the White Sox even winning their own division, let alone the World Series."

Those issues in bold have been discussed at lenght by us fans here at WSI. They are legitimate concerns.

Lip

DrCrawdad

03-24-2003, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Lip Man 1
A few points...

One, Stark never made that comment on Loazia... a GM did...

Alright, technically you're correct. Stark did not in fact say that about Loazia. But does Stark argee with that statement? I'd have to say Stark thought it was funny and that Stark also agreed. Stark used that comment from an unnamed GM to get his point across.

The clubhouse atmosphere stuff about the drug testing case is...

:whoflungpoo

Jerry_Manuel

03-24-2003, 09:58 PM

"Esteban Loaiza?" gulped one GM. "You're not going to the playoffs counting on that guy."

OK, so I guess now that Minnesota has a living legend in Kenny Rogers that the Sox should just wave the White Flag.

There are also concerns the White Sox didn't significantly address a team defense that allowed 82 unearned runs last year -- second-most in baseball (to Detroit).

I guess having Joe Crede at 3rd for 162 games instead of 53 doen't do anything. Rowand is a question mark, I can see that point. Valentin is going to make his errors, but you know he'll make up for it in other ways. I think the team knows that Valentin is giving it his all out there, as opposed to Clayton who really seemed to care about himself.

And the other question our panelists had was what one GM described as "clubhouse volatility." That drug-testing brouhaha once again raised significant questions about their clubhouse chemistry, and about manager Jerry Manuel's ability to control it.

Weak. If this team is losing to Minnesota because their upset at each other for events in March, then this team has a bunch of psycho's. Thomas has to get off to a hot start, if he does, everything will be fine.

When you contrast the lack of rotation depth, defense and chemistry of the White Sox with the abundance the Twins have of all of the above, it's hard to make a case for the White Sox even winning their own division, let alone the World Series."

I think all of this chemistry talk is a bunch of head games. If Minnesota keeps claiming over and over again that the Sox have bad chemistry, how long before you as a player start to ask yourself if it's true?

GASHWOUND

03-24-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
OK, so I guess now that Minnesota has a living legend in Kenny Rogers that the Sox should just wave the White Flag.

I guess having Joe Crede at 3rd for 162 games instead of 53 doen't do anything. Rowand is a question mark, I can see that point. Valentin is going to make his errors, but you know he'll make up for it in other ways. I think the team knows that Valentin is giving it his all out there, as opposed to Clayton who really seemed to care about himself.

Weak. If this team is losing to Minnesota because their upset at each other for events in March, then this team has a bunch of psycho's. Thomas has to get off to a hot start, if he does, everything will be fine.

I think all of this chemistry talk is a bunch of head games. If Minnesota keeps claiming over and over again that the Sox have bad chemistry, how long before you as a player start to ask yourself if it's true?

I'm really getting sick of the "bad chemistry" crap..The only crackpot is Thomas, other than that the clubhouse is a good one.

And the Loaiza crack? Uhh, am I missing something..is Loaiza our opening day ACE????
He's our 4th starter!
Why does everybody making these comments and opinions about the Sox sound so freakin retarded?!

Daver

03-24-2003, 10:26 PM

Originally posted by GASHWOUND
I'm really getting sick of the "bad chemistry" crap.

Me too,if you want chemistry have Josh Paul bring a bunsen burner to the dugout,then he might actually accomplish something,other than that,chemistry is overrated.

gogosoxgogo

03-24-2003, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by TheBigHurt
hell the PHILLIES are going to be solid this year to say the least, with the solid Pitching stafff...dam the NL better watch out

BE GOOD

Hey, I agree with you, the Phils are going to go far this year.

As for the article's view on my Sox, I think that they were pretty much right on. Actually, I think that they overrated the Sox in having them go to the final 2. My beef is their arguement about the Cubs, that is sick and uncredable.

MRKARNO

03-24-2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Lip Man 1

"Esteban Loaiza?" gulped one GM. "You're not going to the playoffs counting on that guy."

Lip

I think that we can atribute this quote to Ron Gardenhire and be done with it.

Saracen

03-24-2003, 11:36 PM

Funny quote from this past Monday's Dallas Morning News:

"Scratch those forecasts about the Chicago White Sox being contenders. The White Sox are counting on old friend Esteban Loaiza to fill a rotation spot. "

We damn well better not be counting on anything from Loaiza. He's a world-beater for a game, then brutal for 3. All to go along with absolutely terrible work habits.

Whoever the unnamed GM was, he's right.

sox_fan_forever

03-24-2003, 11:50 PM

I used to always think that chemistry was important, but lately I have found myself leaning more towards the "chemistry is overrated" camp. All these quotes about the Sox having bad chemistry are DRIVING ME INSANE!!!!!!! :angry: