Like I said, a team's best player is supposed to help his team not hinder it! Baron helped the team in the 1st half but completely screwed it for the team in the 4th quarter by taking shot after shot and missing most!

#32 wrote:Baron Davis did ANYTHING but directly lose us the game against New Jersey. On principle alone, you can't blame a loss on the guy who kept you in the game the entire night. It's contradictory and hypocritical.

It's not. Pest said what happened. Baron kept us in the game til the last quarter and was a big reason we lost it in that period. Where's the contradiction?

Well, looks like Monta will not be getting in the game in the fourth quarter or any other quarter for that matter the next two games with an ankle injury. I just read on Fanball.com he will be out of action. Let's see how the team does in his absence.

#32 wrote:Baron Davis did ANYTHING but directly lose us the game against New Jersey. On principle alone, you can't blame a loss on the guy who kept you in the game the entire night. It's contradictory and hypocritical.

It's not. Pest said what happened. Baron kept us in the game til the last quarter and was a big reason we lost it in that period. Where's the contradiction?

aletha33 wrote:we lost b/c we dont have a go to guy other than baron..and every other team knows that...

we lost cuz we ain't got the players...

it ain't BD.

With the way Baron played last night in the fourth quarter, was any other Warrior player even given a chance to step up and make a big shot? I would say NO.

When Baron gets the idea in his head that he is going to single-handedly try to carry this team, he usually fails miserably. He has immense talent not just scoring the ball, but distributing it as well. He would be wise to drive, draw and dish the ball to get others involved and take some of the pressure off himself to score all the points down the stretch.

As for Monta, yes, he turns the ball over some, but I think his ability to get to the basket and make some big shots are the reasons he is in there. Unfortunately as I eluded to in the last paragraph, more times than not, Monta and the rest of the team is standing around watching Baron try to force the issue and try to make something out of the nothing.

Monta has his faults and no one is overlooking that, but as good as Baron Davis is, he is hurting the team with his selfish play in the fourth quarter and Nellie needs to address this issue as soon as possible or we will be in for more fourth quarter meltdowns as we saw last night.

again, one more time, there's NO ONE ELSE THAT CAN TAKE OVER GAMES IN THE 4TH QUARTER. sure, BD may fail at times, but he's gotta have the ball in his bands.

You can't have the ball in Monta's hands at the end of the game - not yet. He's not there...he can't penetrate at will consistently. If you notice, Monta stands too straight up - just like JRich - and he's not in a position to explode to the basket. He can't dime like BD does. He doesn't have the vision nor strength.

and who else has shown they can come through in the 4th quarter? and dont tell me BD had the ball all 12 minutes..c'mon dude. just no one has the balls nor ability to score during the 4th quarter.

BD can't give the ball to anyone else - no one can create their own shot. he's 'selfish' when he fails...the hero when he succeeds..

BD, keep doing what you're doing...basketball is not an equal opportunity sport. The best players take the most important shots...ya, you'll f*ck up every now and then, but you take the bad with the good...we wouldn't be in games at the end without you anyway...

John Patrick wrote:OK, a lot of people misunderstood because I'm NOT talking about this game only. I'm talking about the whole season. Monta makes stupid turnovers. I'm leaving Baron out of this. YES, he had a terrible 4th quarter. But he's our best player (at least for now), and he has Nelson's trust. Also, he's done some great 4th quarter things as well.

Now, back to Monta. His turnover rate (yes, in the fourth quarter too. He doesn't take as many shots as Baron, but he does get touches on the ball) is too high for a crunch time player.

Since he is not going to take the crunch-time shots (at least for now, and I know having Baron take the shots is nerve-racking, but he is taking them, get over it), why leave him in? He still will commit those inexperienced turnovers. I'd rather have someone else, just ANYONE, who will not commit those turnovers. Leave Monta in for the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and early 4th though, let him commit the silly turnovers then. That's the time when he can develop and grow as a basketball player. But as a team aspiring for playoffs and on the borderline, we cannot afford his mistakes that can and will screw up a ball game.

Your point is understood and I disagree with it. Who do you want to see on the floor in his place?

Monta does turn the ball over some, but I do not see a viable option on the bench to take his place. McLeod? Roberson? No thanks.

compromise...

keep monta in the game, but keep the ball out of his hands unless he gets a kick out from BD.

then it's easier for monta to create when the defense is out of position.

ChicagoTom wrote:Well, looks like Monta will not be getting in the game in the fourth quarter or any other quarter for that matter the next two games with an ankle injury. I just read on Fanball.com he will be out of action. Let's see how the team does in his absence.

snakebit team

To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

#32 wrote:If ANYBODY this season is playing with heart, determination, and the kind of fire we need, it's Baron. Monta's horribly inconsistent (and a TO machine), Jason and Murph have been off due to injuries, Ike hasn't played at all (basically), and Biedrins isn't fundamental enough to be our 2nd offensive weapon. Baron Davis, like it or not, is carrying this team as far as he can right now. Not Jason Richardson. Not your boy Monta Ellis. Baron Davis.

THANK YOU...

seriously, how can you guys blame one person for our losses? for all the ranting and raving you guys are going on about BD, I can do the same for each player...except everyone else's list would be much longer.

Like 32 says, BD is trying to carry this team on his back...and what a fricken load it is with the players we have now...

aletha33 wrote:seriously, how can you guys blame one person for our losses?

You're getting it out of context. Nobody is blaming Baron (or any other) for our losses. Just for one bad quarter (which can't be refuted, as it happened that way)... Overall, everybody agrees he's been playing well this season. Everybody has ups and downs during the course of the season, even during the course of a game...

TMC wrote:It's not. Pest said what happened. Baron kept us in the game til the last quarter and was a big reason we lost it in that period. Where's the contradiction?

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:if you watched the game you know that the people to blame for the loss are1. Baron2. Baron3. Baron4. Baron5. Dunleavy

They were the ONLY guys who touched the ball during crunch time. Baron chucked up lousy fadeaway after lousy fadeaway and got 8 turnovers. He never passed out of the double and single handedly lost us the game. The only guy he passed to was dungleavy who wasn't able to do **** with it. The fourth quarter baron was basically the only guy who ever touched the ball. Monta touched the ball about five times the whole fourth quarter. if they had given it to him they may have won.

I reiterate, baron's choking is the biggest reason we lost the game

TMC, find me (in that quote) ANY part where pest acknowledges that Baron Davis kept us in the game...?

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:if you watched the game you know that the people to blame for the loss are1. Baron2. Baron3. Baron4. Baron5. Dunleavy

They were the ONLY guys who touched the ball during crunch time.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:The fourth quarter baron was basically the only guy who ever touched the ball.

I reiterate, baron's choking is the biggest reason we lost the game

These two, for example. He's talking specifically about the final period, not the whole game.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:It happens over and over again, baron got us in the game, but in the last 15 minutes keith mcleod almost would have been better than him. I'm talking about this game individually so baron's season stats are a moot point.

Or this one (first page of this thread), in which pest acknowledges Baron kept us in the game until the last 15 minutes.

32, I gotta go with TMC on this, Pest's quotes are pretty clear - kinda feels like you are trying to pick a fight w/Pest where none exists, and I am not sure that the name-calling strengthens your case. You are a bright cat with strong opinions, like a lot of us. Speaking of which, a # of us bright cats with strong opinions have an issue with how Baron plays at the end of games, but I don't see anyone saying Baron doesn't have a huge # of positives. That's what is maddening about him. It's not like Foyle or Dung, who have limited skills. He has major skills when he chooses to use them. Esp. in the Jersey game, he played brilliantly for 3 quarters and then stupidly for one. What is SO frustrating about him is he demonstrates time and again the ability to be an amazing distributor and playmaker, and then something happens. I saw this again and again with him last year, and it seems to have resurfaced after this year's injury. I know Monta is also turnover prone, but they had so much success early with him handling and Baron roaming off the ball...I would like to see them get back to that.

To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

I'm not interesting in fighting with anybody. I was defending Baron Davis when Pest was clearly (and unwarrantingly) bashing him. That's all. To prove it, I'll step out of this thread (it seemed to die, anyway). Have fun blaming all our problems on our best player, guys.

Defintion of Straw Man: the arguer makes up a proposition never offered by her opponent (usually weaker than the true proposition) and then attacks it as if his opponent had offered that proposition. This is most common on Internet chat sites.
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To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women