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Andalusia itinerary comments & advice please!

We are in the planning stages of our Sept-Oct visit to Andalusia. I've been doing a lot of research on different sites and forums. Getting overwhelmed with choices and ideas I think having a full month in that region would not be enough, but in our case we have to limit ourselves to about a week.

Day 1 / arriving late at night. Day 10 / departing at 12.00h. So that leaves us with 8 full days ( last 1.5day will be spend in Madrid). Distances in Spain are a challenge. I really would prefer not to move between too many hotels and avoid one-nighters. I've been looking at the map checking distance and necessary time to get from A to B to C... Seems that in best case scenario, we'll need to change hotels 4 times. In worst, 5 times. That's really a lot of packing / unpacking *_*

Here are the things that we have to work with.

Group about 10 people (65yrs up).

Total 9 nights (trying to make it 10 nights but probably won't be able to ). ca. SEPT - OCT 2016.

Day 2 / Mini-bus Full day trip : Malaga > Ronda > LUNCH and wine tasting at Bodega Garcia Hidalgo (read some wonderful reviews of home cooked food > Malaga
***Question : If we only do one white village / town, would Ronda be the best? Or should we somehow try squeezing another visit (ex. Mijas)?

Day 3/ Malaga > charter mini- bus to Granada > pm tour Granada city + Dinner with a view of Alhambra at one of the Carmen restaurants. (Granada 2 nights)

It is a lot to do in that time, but it seems to make sense logistically. Yes, you should be able to go from Malaga to Seville that one day, stopping in Cordoba for a few hours. After all, it's only about a 2 hour drive between Malaga and Cordoba and also between Cordoba and Seville.

I'm not interested in sports or sunbathing or swimming, either, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with age. I just am not interested in them.

Your itinerary is a bit rushed, especially since you will not be arriving in Malaga until late in the evening, and by the time you check into your hotel, it will probably be close to midnight. I would rethink your plan.

Málaga - 4 nights. This will give you some time to enjoy the city. You can do a day trips to Ronda and Granada and not have to worry about changing hotels.

Sevilla - 3 nights - You can do a day tip to Cordoba, take the train up in the morning and be back in Sevilla in time for dinner.

Madrid - 2 nights - take the mid-morning AVE to Madrid so that you can be there in time for lunch and enjoy yourself. The city is full of great restaurants.

Note that dinner is typically served later in the evening in the south, but there are a number of restaurants in Málaga and Sevilla that open earlier in the evening. Also, lunch is normally the main meal of the day.

We did a 2 week trip to Andalucia (not including Malaga)
I'm a little confused about "Dinner with a view of Alhambra at one of the Carmen restaurants." We ate at the Carmen restaurants (the original and the seafood) and they are in the middle of the city with no view at all. On the other hand the food is great (especially at the original restaurant)! You get a fantastic view of the Alhambra from the Albaicin (the old Arab quarter which is worth a half day visit.)because it is on the hill facing the Alhambra.
We were in Cordoba 2 nights (2 and a half days) and loved it. Daytripping doesn't do it justice but if you want to daytrip in Cordoba this could easily do this on the way to Madrid from Seville. Take an early train, leave the luggage at the train station,take a cab to the old city where all the main attractions are situated and then at the end of the day, continue on to Madrid. Check the Renfe site for the schedules. Going to Cordoba from Granada in order to get to Seville doesn't make any sense. A lot of extra travelling. It makes more sense to take the train from Seville to Cordobab.
The main meal is in the middle of the day but we made do with tapas (what "made do"? It was always delicious!) and then went out to eat our main meal in the evening (so we could do more touring). Many restaurants already open at 8:30 and even 8:00. (For instance, Carmen is open from breakfast to late at night.) It's easy enough to check online.
Whatever you decide, you'll have to accept the fact that you probably won't get to see everything!.

You didn't say where you're coming from, but Robert's itinerary is a good one, esp. if you'll be coping with jetlag.
Forget the so-called white villages and Mijas which is a Disney-fied village (unless you must have a photo made sitting on a burro).
If you take a van around, remember that you not only have to fit in 10 people but also all their luggage !

The greatest and most prestigious flamenco festival in the world goes on in Sevilla from Sept 8 to Oct 2 2016. The finest flamenco artists in theaters all around town every night. Mostly a local and knowledgeable crowd. Could be a crash intro to this powerful and beautiful art so important for Sevilla and all of Andalucia. A night at the Bienal could easily be a highlight of your trip: http://www.labienal.com/en/

I must admit that I would find this trip unpleasantly rushed. Are you sure you will be able to see everything you want to see in this time frame? If you haven't already done so, I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location. Check opening/closing times on the internet, making sure to note that (a) many things in Spain are closed all day on Monday and part or all of Sunday and (b) many things in Spain are closed for a long mid-day break. Once you know when you can see the things you most want to see, mark them on a calendar, pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from your lodging, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, and corralling everyone -- which, with 10 people, can be quite a challenge). Then see how things fit together. Only then can you really decide whether your plan makes sense for you.

FWIW, I found seeing the Alhambra in the evening an absolutely magical experience (it doesn't replace seeing it in the day -- rather it compliments and furthers the experience), and I thought the Alhambra and Cordoba's Mezquita two of the highlights of ALL of my travels. JMO.

I should have mentioned that we are coming from Japan. I'm at a teacher at a culture school, and my ladies (age 65-75) and I take a trip once a year to Europe. In Sept 2014, we did 5 nights (4 full days in Madrid area) and 4 nights (3 full days in Barcelona). At that time, I considered adding Seville-Granada, but with only 10 days that would have been crazy. So we were happy to stay at 2 hotels and do day trips (Toledo, Segovia, Montserrat).

For Andalusia, I've tried minimising hotel moves but at the same time actually seeing the main three cities. Initial idea was : 2 night each in Malaga, Granada, Seville, and 1 night in Cordoba before moving for 2 nights to Madrid (returning flight being at 12.00h). I am still undecided whether to do 1 night in Cordoba OR add that night to Seville (doing Cordoba as a stop on the way from Granada to Seville). I was compelled to have a night in Cordoba with all the day-trippers gone, but once I reflect back on our previous experiences I think once the check in is done and dinner finished, my ladies wouldn't venture out of the hotel. So then perhaps it makes more sense just to drive straight to Seville. Yes, it'd be a very long day, but the merit is that we'd stay 3 nights at the same hotel.

Anyway, Cordoba night is still a choice. What do you think?

Robert, I agree that the itinerary is fast paced. My only relieve is that Japanese travellers are used to fast-paced tours (a typical 8 day /6 nights tour from Japan would be : Madrid -La Mancha-Cordoba-Seville-Granda-Mijas-Barcelona )

Taltul, I might have misused the name carmen. I kind of got the idea that they were the old private mansions turned into upscale restaurants with the view of the Alhambra. Places like Carmen Mirador de Aixa , Carmen de Aben Humeya, Restaurante Las Tomasas, El Huerto de Juan Ranas (still deciding which one we'll use). As for doing Cordoba on the way to Madrid--intriguing. Something that I haven't really considered before. We're planning on taking the AVE train from Seville to Madrid. Kind of worried about dealing with the luggage and logistics. The beautify of doing Cordoba on the way from Granada to Seville would have been us having out private charter bus, so no additional worries about luggage. Also, once you add up the prices for AVE tickets Seville-Cordoba x 10-15 people, it's as much or more expensive than hiring a minibus.

Bedar, good point about van / minibus! I'm checking with the bus companies for slightly bigger buses on the long transfers (to fit in all our stuff). Smaller vehicles are better once you get to the cities/towns though. We had trouble in Madrid old town area with a 56seater bus showing up for a dinner transfer. The bus got stuck in the narrow street, and if memory serves me right, we were there for about 30min while bystanders tried to help our driver to get out! Thank you for reconfirming my resolve not to visit Mijas. (It's the only white village mentioned in Japanese tours). I think Ronda + winery tasting-lunch, would be a more relaxed way to spend the first day.

kimhe, depending on our dates in Oct, we might just miss the festival in Seville *_* What a shame. But I have read and seen reviews that Casa de la Memoria is a good choice. Seems it'll be close to the hotel I'm looking at now for Seville.

FWIW, I loved Cordoba and was glad to spend 2 nights there -- but you don't have 2 nights, and the amount of time it will take 10 people to relocate, etc., is a LOT more than the time it takes me (solo traveler) to do so, so visiting it as a day-trip from Sevilla makes a lot of sense to me.

kja, thank you. Good point indeed to check for the opening times. Just recently I noticed that we definitely do not want to be in Cordoba on a Monday since the main attractions there would be closed. Alhambra, Seville Alcazar, Cathedral seem to be opened daily, so that should be slightly easier to manage.

Small Casa de la Memoria would be a fine intro to flamenco, only top of the shelf artists. But mostly tourists in the audience, and it can't even compare to a night at the Bienal, not least because flamenco is very much about communication between the artists and the audience. The venues, the crowd and the Bienal atmosphee makes it a totally different world.

minamax10 - kudos to you for organising this - it sounds like a nightmare to me, but you seem to be taking it in your stride.

I would definitely go for options that give you longer stays in fewer places, as the checking in and out of places will take so long, even with the super-punctual Japanese group you have to deal with.

and I second the tip about seeing the Alhambra at night - a wonderful experience and completely different to the daytime visit, not least because they restrict the numbers and you have the chance to see the Nasrid Palaces without the crush of people you can get during the day.

Thank you Robert. I emailed to Rosabus to see what they'd quote for transfers.

Kimhe, two years ago we saw an amazing (at least I thought it was )) performance at Barcelona's Palau Dalmases. What I loved about that place is how atmospheric it was. You walk through a tiny doorway, and suddenly find yourself in a 17th century mansion. A small and intimate place to enjoy the show. I found myself on the edge of the seat...some of my ladies were dozing off A combination of a long day, filling dinner, and a few glasses of wine to blame. I think one hour at Casa de la Memoria should be good for us. I just wish that the venue was a little more exciting. I think Casa del Flamenco has a little patio where the dancers perform, but the location is further away from our hotel.

annhig , thank you It's a lot of work and pressure cause I really want to create a perfect plan. But once all the work is done, we do have a terrific time on our travels. So hopefully, Andalusia will be an amazing experience for us too!

minimax - exactly. we didn't plan it that way - we had pre-booked the day time visit but when we got there, seeing as we were staying right opposite the Alhambra and hadn't got anything better to do, decided that we would see if we could get in for the night time visit as well.

it was well worth it!

[this was about 7 years ago so I don't think that you would reckon on doing that now, not even in November which was when we were there]

My night visit to the Nasrid Palace was AFTER my daytime visit, and I was very pleased with that order, because -- as Taltul said -- it meant that I knew what I was seeing when I went in the evening. It was absolutely magical!

I believe there is also an option for an evening visit to the Generalife. If that had been an option when I visited, I would have opted for that the evening before my day-time visit, with a visit to the Nasrid Palace on the evening of my day-time visit. Just something to keep in mind!

Hi kja, I'll keep that in mind. I am thinking that on day 2 in Granada (Alhambra + Hammam spa) my ladies might call it an early night. So if there are any tickets left for that day (AND strength on my part , I might challenge that on my own. On day 1, we'll probably be having a slow long dinner at on of the Carmen restaurants with a view of Alhambra. So that would be way past the entrance times for the evening/night visits.

annhig, I personally would not mind eating at 10pm if that's what the norm is, but I think my ladies (who normally eat around 6pm ) might fall asleep at the table ). During our previous trip to Spain, our latest dinner reservation was around 20.30h I think.

annhig, I personally would not mind eating at 10pm if that's what the norm is, but I think my ladies (who normally eat around 6pm ) might fall asleep at the table ).>>

minamax, we normally eat at between 7-8pm at home, but I find sitting down to eat after 9pm in Spain quite hard work, though by the end of a trip, I'm getting better at it.

Recently we have tended to sightsee in the mornings, then to sit down to a proper lunch [often using the Menu del dia deals] at about 2-2.30, and then sight-see/shop when places are re-opening at about 5pm, having a tapas bar/pub crawl in the evenings which means that we can try quite a few places.

Again, lunch (1:30 to 4:00) in Spain is typically the main meal of the day, but you can find restaurants that serve dinner earlier then 10:00 pm. On Sundays families usually eat later in the afternoon, after 2:30. And you'd be surprised at how many bars and restaurants close up tight by midnight, even on the weekend, with the kitchens closing even earlier. But yes, there are places that stay open later.

When we do go our for dinner it's usually at 9:00 or 9:30, depending on the restaurant and what else we have planned for the evening.

annhig, I would go with the flow and definitely try to fit the lifestyle of the place i visit if I were on my own. but you are right, it might not < not fit in with your ladies.> )

Robert, <going out to dinner around 9.30 depending on what else is planned for the evening. > For me, that would be most like going straight back home haha...

Just a thought, after I returned form Spain in 2014, I started to think of all those Spanish visitors to Japan. I bet a lot of them are left starving since most traditional restaurants in Japan have an 8.30~9.30h last order calls That probably is a shock for them just as much as for us to see a restaurant opening its doors at 9pm.

I started to think of all those Spanish visitors to Japan. I bet a lot of them are left starving since most traditional restaurants in Japan have an 8.30~9.30h last order calls That probably is a shock for them just as much as for us to see a restaurant opening its doors at 9pm.>>

minamax, having never been to Japan, I don't know if Japan is more like Spain, where you can normally find somewhere open and selling food at any time between 8am -10pm [and in Spain's case much later of course] or like France, where [apart from in big places like Paris and other large cities] unless you conform to their lunch and dinner hours, [typically 12-2, 7-9] you're likely to go hungry.

For me, one of the joys of going to Spain is that you can eat at more or less whatever time you like.

annhig, I can only vouch for big cities like Tokyo. Depending on the area (the city is huge!) you could probably eat and drink yourself under the table 24/7 I do though think that the more traditional places close pretty early though. One thing that really surprised me when I visited Spain for the first time was that many restaurants are closed on Sun-Mon-Tue (at least one or two days a week). In Barcelona we were looking for a nice place to have our farewell dinner (our food splurge of the trip) and I was coming up empty. Some famous restaurants..even at the 5 star hotels!...we closed on Sun/Mon nights. One place asked me "Can you change your departure schedule" .... yes, of course, we'll change our flight arrangement just so that we can fit the restaurants opening hours. Lol. In Tokyo, most places are opened 365 days a year. Especially if they are a part of a hotel.