If you like 4x games enough to play them sp, buy it If you want multiplayer buy it , it will come faster (lol). Hotseat is in already.

to OP : A2526 is a pot pourri of all the games you named (played em too). It the one that really makes me better immersed in my games due to pace quality. Its by far theone with most potential as well.

Its obvious your a 4x fan so yes you should buy , you will not regret, Tutorial perfect for learning. Then you can either do the 12 race map or make a custom campaign that suits your style/wishes. I think that the current custom game allows enough to play a satisfying game but it will also reveal the potential.

i would highly recomend SEV using the 1.79 patch and the Balance Mod 1.19f soon to be 1.20. Capt. Kwok has spent like 2 yes fixing the game into a very excellent game. Right now i would say it is the best 4x space game out there. Be warned thou , you will have to invest some time into it. but believe me its a great game. really fun multi player game via email. the combat simulator alone is worth it. i think you can pick it up for like 10 bucks. you cant go wrong.

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"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country." Patton

I have played 2526 a couple of times and I think it may be a long time before I play it again. It does not feel like a worthy successor to Master of Orion or Birth of the Federation. So I would hold off until a significant patch comes out as stated in another thread the micromanagement of population emigration is a killer.

I am also doubting whether to buy the game. Unfortunately there are no reviews yet. It seems to fulfil my necessary criteria for a good 4x space game: good diplomacy, no detailed ship design and tactical battles, focus on empire management, not on micro management (perhaps there are some issues with bureaucracy, happiness and population transport?). Does anyone of you know if Sword of the stars also fulfils these criteria?

I am also doubting whether to buy the game. Unfortunately there are no reviews yet. It seems to fulfil my necessary criteria for a good 4x space game: good diplomacy, no detailed ship design and tactical battles, focus on empire management, not on micro management (perhaps there are some issues with bureaucracy, happiness and population transport?). Does anyone of you know if Sword of the stars also fulfils these criteria?

Read this thread for some information. Its difficult to tell if some1 likes a game or not. There is 1 thing i can say. This game runs great and is not full of bugs like alot other games new on the market. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2308357

Not counting time spent in tactical combat, dealing with population issues takes about roughly 70% of my game time. It can be more or less depending on which race you play. The game doesn't have much micromanagement, but population is the exception. The races are not evenly balanced and your choice has a significant effect on the difficulty of the game. (More so than the actual difficulty selection.)

I think the big disconnect is that this isn't really a 4X game. It was advertised as such and a lot of people bought the game expecting the same general type of gameplay as other 4X games. Winning in this game is based on collecting points, not on warfare or expansion. In fact, expansion becomes impossible for most races as the game moves into it's later stages and warfare is generally only useful as a method to control your own population. (At one point I would say that 80% of my shipbuilding was trying to construct enough transports and fill them with enough of my people that I could suicide them at enemy fleets as a population control method.)

I guess I have to disagree with that sentence. A 4x game by definition is a strategy game in which players control an empire that must "explore, expand, exploit, and exterminate". This game certainly requires you do that. What makes this game different is the you must develop a game play style that pays attention to all four aspects through out the whole game. If you try to play it as a space conquest game (meaning you only concentrate on the 2X's - exploit and exterminate) you will lose.

The real issue is that most are really having difficulty that the game system, as delivered, is very different from all the other games mentioned in the various threads. I like that it is different and I commend the designer for trying to do something different.

My only problem with game is in the end game phase, the need to move population takes on a little too much micro-management to suit me. There have been enough good ideas presented that if any of them are implemented that should address that issue.

One last thing is that this game is easily modified by changing the XML files. I have created races that allowed me to win the game based on armed expansion making it space conquest game. I have even designed new ships, created custom planet names, and altered structure characteristics by just editing the various XML files. You can shape this game to match your whim or play preference. I must confess that I tried changing the XMLs just to see how modifiable the game is as I play most of my games unmodified.

ORIGINAL: Ryvan I think the big disconnect is that this isn't really a 4X game. It was advertised as such and a lot of people bought the game expecting the same general type of gameplay as other 4X games. Winning in this game is based on collecting points, not on warfare or expansion. In fact, expansion becomes impossible for most races as the game moves into it's later stages and warfare is generally only useful as a method to control your own population. (At one point I would say that 80% of my shipbuilding was trying to construct enough transports and fill them with enough of my people that I could suicide them at enemy fleets as a population control method.)

Yes, the game in its current state has some gameplay flaws, but it also has positives. As soon as the devs listen to the players and release a patch which fixes all the bad points mentioned on this forum (and maybe adds some new tactical and strategic warfare features), it would be a great game. Now its just good or average, compared to other 4Xs. But patches and expansions can turn even a horrible game at release into good stuff, and already good game can be gradually upgraded to almost perfect (example: Sins, GalCiv2 and its wonderful expansions). So, keep it up guys! :)

Ryvan, Grandpoobah may have a solution for your problem. Check out posts here and here for an explanation.

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ORIGINAL: Ryvan

Not counting time spent in tactical combat, dealing with population issues takes about roughly 70% of my game time. It can be more or less depending on which race you play. The game doesn't have much micromanagement, but population is the exception. The races are not evenly balanced and your choice has a significant effect on the difficulty of the game. (More so than the actual difficulty selection.)

I think the big disconnect is that this isn't really a 4X game. It was advertised as such and a lot of people bought the game expecting the same general type of gameplay as other 4X games. Winning in this game is based on collecting points, not on warfare or expansion. In fact, expansion becomes impossible for most races as the game moves into it's later stages and warfare is generally only useful as a method to control your own population. (At one point I would say that 80% of my shipbuilding was trying to construct enough transports and fill them with enough of my people that I could suicide them at enemy fleets as a population control method.)

Armada more than filled my 4x spot. Im not hungry for 4x games anymore and am playing/doing other stuff now. Perhaps revisit in ww2 pacific is in order..

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"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."- unknown poster "Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke

ORIGINAL: linger That's a shame...man 70% on population control is ridiculous. Guess i'll have to hold off on this then.

It's all relative. Playing on a good size map, on turn 250, I was spending like 2% of my time on population control. I just set up auto transports between worlds that needed to lose / gain population.

Agreed, population control takes up nowhere near 70% of my time. I occasionally setup a few repeating transport routes and routes to newly colonized systems, that's about it. It mainly serves as pressure for me to keep expanding and I have certainly started a few wars to secure more space for population.

With that said, as others have noted, modding this game is pretty easy with a text editor and adjusting the balance how you want it does not take much effort.

I believe that the vast, forum-silent majority do not mod or use mods and they do not want to. They, like me, would rather wait for official updates while continuing to try a game or while playing other games. I wish there was not such a focus by developers towards us to mod games. It only discourages the mentioned majority players.

I have seen this on other game forums also and it is usually only about 5 to 10 players that often talk about modding.

Though, I do appreciate that modding is available to those that like it.

As you can see at the start of this thread, I was on the fence several weeks ago like you but I decided to buy it based off what some people here told me. I am very happy I did, I have definitely got my money worth out this game already. From the things you mention, it fits all of that well. I have not really had a problem with the pop transport as others have complained about. If you are looking for a solid 4x game that will be a good break from all the others out there, I have to recommend 2526. To answer your question about Sword of the Stars, that one shines on tactical battles and pretty good ship design. Downside is nothing with colonies other then a couple sliders and not much diplomacy options. Best suggestion to you, I would buy both of them. You can pickup Sword of the Stars complete on Impulse (and some of the other digital sites too) for really cheap now. Man, I have all of these games and I find they all stand on their own as great games, I like them all. Sometimes, I may want to play Space Empires 5, other times GalCiv2, Armada, SotS, EaW and I also always liked Lost Empire too. This all said, in the end I feel Armada is a great addition to any 4x gamer's library so you really can't go wrong. Oh, I had to pick my eyes up off the ground the first time I seen a 1000x1000 mini map, INSANE!

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ORIGINAL: Gertjan

I am also doubting whether to buy the game. Unfortunately there are no reviews yet. It seems to fulfil my necessary criteria for a good 4x space game: good diplomacy, no detailed ship design and tactical battles, focus on empire management, not on micro management (perhaps there are some issues with bureaucracy, happiness and population transport?). Does anyone of you know if Sword of the stars also fulfils these criteria?

Thanks a lot for the advise. After all the info I received during the past few days I am really inclined to try the game this weekend. I don't have the time to try all the different 4X games. Furthermore, Sword of the Stars seems to be too much focused on ship design and combat, which is not my cup of tea at all (although I like to watch (nearly) automated battles such as in SoaSE).

I also think that people who were hesitant should take a look at it now. Also people who bought it a year ago should revisit the game as it has improved a lot...currently in my top 5 4x space strategy games.

I admittedly wasn't too thrilled with Armada when it was first released last fall, but it's improved a lot this past year. It has definitely become one of my favorite 4x titles, and is worth checking out now.