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Any controversial topic can be discussed. Freedom of expression is encouraged. The scientific validity of things posted in this forum may stray from reality quite wildly and the reader is advised to keep that in mind. Please refrain from bad language and DO NOT get overly abusive with other members. You MUST post in English. It is OK to have fiercely intense debate. This forum has no connection with CERN, the LHC or my site. The views here do not represent the forum's views or my views in any way. It is meant as a place to debate or discuss subjects that may create heated debate. Almost no moderation will occur in this forum at all.

DCWhitworth wrote:That's fairly typical of the misinformation and myth that spreads about the EU. Quote from the EU - "Cucumbers do not have to be straight. There are grading rules, which were called for by representatives from the industry to enable buyers in one country to know what quality and quantity they would get when purchasing a box, unseen, from another country. Nothing is banned under these rules: they simply help to inform traders of particular specifications."

I suggest reading the norm rather than listening to PR announcements.

There are three grades - 'selection', 1st grade, 2nd grade. Even 2nd grade has maximum bending specified and anything above it is not considered a cucumber according to this norm. And cucumber may fall into 2nd grade just because it's bent slightly above the norm for 1st grade - with inevitable consequence that you're not ever going to sell it for 1st grade price even though there's nothing wrong with it otherwise.

I can understand certain producers using machine processing may require straight cucumbers for their machines to be able to process them. But that's matter of negotiations between the producer and its vendor, it does not require a continent-wide general rule. And for home use it's largely irrelevant how much the cucumber is bent.

Actually this shows yet another problem with EU regulations - they're always slightly different from what the officials are saying about them.

All a bit pointless arguing about since this legislation was repealed a few years back. You can always find bad situations and dubious achivements for any organisation if you look through a strong enough microscopre, that doesn't mean it is reflective of the overall worth of that organization.

Personally I believe the EU is a positive force that does more good than harm, clearly you believe the opposite. I doubt we'll persuade each other.

Interesting to note that the newspapers that trash the EU and say what a waste of space and money it is are the same ones who spread the scare stories about the LHC and science in general. Just sayin' . . .

DCWhitworth wrote:Personally I believe the EU is a positive force that does more good than harm, clearly you believe the opposite. I doubt we'll persuade each other.

We can agree on that. I wasn't willing to discuss the matter, I was only giving an illustration why I can understand such feelings.
Cucumbers are the funny ones. Regulations which make me subsidy forms of industry I consider inefficient and dangerous to environment through my increased taxes and at the same time pay higher prices for common products because of the same subsidized industry output being not competitive despite all the subsidies are those which are not even funny. The thing is, there is no option to say no, I am not willing to support this madness, I prefer paying lower taxes and paying lower prices and live my life happily the way I want. Nobody is asking me about it.

DCWhitworth wrote:Interesting to note that the newspapers that trash the EU and say what a waste of space and money it is are the same ones who spread the scare stories about the LHC and science in general. Just sayin' . . .

Well, sure.

... or we may also agree on that putting things in perspective this way is yet another kind of unfair PR trick.

Not only you don't know, you don't even care about what my information sources are or what do I consider before I make up my opinion. You just put up your 'just sayin'. Way to go.

Please please please dont engage this "debate" i can link several forums where it starts identical to this semi random figues with no baseline maths involved,..

1. That is you, who give no math. I my first post I wrote some math about deadly crude errors in documents about humanity safety from LHC. Do you agree or disagree with my math in the first post upper.

IVAN mate serious give it up already many many many people have asked you time and time again to write a paper with the MATHS of this home made theory, and submit it to a journal…

That is impossible on two reasons:

1. I am an independent researcher and do not belong to any institute.
2. Most editors of journals are dependent from contemporary scientific religion – Big Bang. In my cosmology H=73,34 km/(s*Mpc), which is the frequency of Universe 4-d rotation. Here is my picture of such rotation:

The probability that you will be killed by CERN in the period of the next day is about 2-3%.
The probability that you will be killed by CERN till December 25 is about 30%.

Say about these probabilities to your President.

Yes, that is true. In a couple of years the Solar system will look like remnants of SN 1987A.

So this is now very clear - it did not happen.. As I said at the time..

Hi dear friends!
Dear Charmlet, Stephen, Chris and others. I’m grateful to you for you mentioned about me.
I’m still alive. I work at some educational organization. I try to be silent about magnetic trap and strangelets. Authorities will not put me into a padded cell, but they can remove me from school children. So in order to survive I must smile and be silent.

My thoughts about magnetic holes and strange matter did not change.
But now I can tell you that I lied you in terms of their growth. I lied because I hoped that the high energy collisions would be canceled.
But collisions had occurred and now there are no any reason to fight against them. If collapsars are already created, they will grow, and no one man on the planet will not be able stop their increasing growth.

At the process of growth collapsars will consume only one billionth part of Earth’s mass. Mass will transform into internal energy of matter in the central regions of the Earth. That amount of energy will be approximately equal to the Earth’s gravitational potential energy and that be sufficient in order to send the rest 0.999999999 parts of Earth into space forever.

But there is a good news! It is necessary about 100 or even 1000 years in order to consume one billionth part of Earth. So be happy and don’t think about sins.

By the way, what about the flux of neutrino from the Earth’s center? If collapsars are already created several years ago, now we must see the growth of neutrino flux. The type of neutrino can tell us about the type of collapsars (magnetic traps or strangelets).

Micro gravitational black holes need many millions of years in order to consume the Earth. So LHC’s black holes are safe. Moreover, they are impossible! There are no formed black holes. They disappear at the process of formation. At the process of their formation all collapsing mass transforms into radiation. As a result the funnel becomes thinner and disappears. But magnetic traps are real!
Their theory is simple: pB=mc^2.
Compare it with the "Newtonian" black hole: GMm/R=mc^2.