apples and oranges again. nobody has imposed religion upon you and even if they did at some point, you were able to decide for yourself to take no part of it, as you did. with the economical scheme we have now, theres no way to cop out.

Try the ballot box. It's called democracy! Oh wait, the sheep aren't clever or knowledgeable or curious enough to decide whom to vote for, so that system is unacceptable.

You have become so boring, humourless and trite in trotting out the same bleeding heart crap day by day that you are no longer worth reading. It's too whiny and self-pitying. A lonely voice in the wilderness who has to call the rest of the world ''sheep'' because they are not as perceptive and educated as himself is somehow sad and depressing.

Pure bullshit. What would today's capitalist countries be if capitalism had not been ''imposed'' on them?

how exactly is it BS when in your following sentence you basically admit my case?

Quote:

But take heart, when anarchism is what people really want then you will have it.

people in their gregarious collective mindset get used to things and have a lack of desire to put out a fight against injustice. likewise, thats something we all know. that's why some dictatorships last for so long, not because the people are happy with their autocratic leaders but simply because they're scared and mostly because they're to some degree comfortable. "thats the life we got to live" some say with resignation. the younger ones usually have braver hearts, it is on them that the rest of the society must derive its inspiration from.

Quote:

But until then there is no chance a young man with a defective bomb will ever ''impose'' it.

Pitronello was just a misguided fool.

to some degree, yes. after all, why risk his own life over something that, if it turns out right, will have little importance in the big scheme of things? then again, at the same this question is posed you inevitably get in the answer a perspective of true idealism. pitronello risked his life because he believes in something greater, something different from money or power as it is usually the case. the path to his ideal might have been misguided and even the ideal itself, as you'd think, but the conviction he showed prior, during and after his ordeal is quite frankly admirable. he never gave up neither in his ideals nor in the desire to live, in spite of all his injuries and the many years in jail that the prosecuters wanted for him.

furthermore, did you know he was offered a reduced sentence if he gave out the name of the guy he was with when he was planting the bomb -the same guy who run away as pitronello was on fire? his answer, he told the coppers to fuck off.

pitronello is an idealist. unwilling to fight for money, power, sex or popularity, but willing to fight and risk his life for the people he loves.

So if I start blowing up empty churches I will be fighting for millions of atheists throughout the world who share my ideals? Great!

apples and oranges again. nobody has imposed religion upon you and even if they did at some point, you were able to decide for yourself to take no part of it, as you did. with the economical scheme we have now, theres no way to cop out.

No. "the majority of chileans" never got asked whether they wanted a so called capitalist society or not, we got it imposed upon us. same as it happened in most countries. the richest 1% controls the country and the pawns have to follow. it's only normal and natural to feel like rebelling against a system that we don't want to be a part of.

luciano pitronello was fighting for the people, for millions of chileans and anarchists throughout the world who share his ideals.

Pure bullshit. What would today's capitalist countries be if capitalism had not been ''imposed'' on them? But take heart, when anarchism is what people really want then you will have it. But until then there is no chance a young man with a defective bomb will ever ''impose'' it.

No. "the majority of chileans" never got asked whether they wanted a so called capitalist society or not, we got it imposed upon us. same as it happened in most countries. the richest 1% controls the country and the pawns have to follow. it's only normal and natural to feel like rebelling against a system that we don't want to be a part of.

luciano pitronello was fighting for the people, for millions of chileans and anarchists throughout the world who share his ideals.

No, your personal satisfaction and joy is the most important thing of all. You only have one life, might be over tomorrow, might be over in 50 years. Why waste your time? I figure, the more time I spend happy and satisfied, the better life I am living and that is the only thing that matters. Being a martyr for some cause that will be irrelevant in a few hundred years does not interest me at all and I am baffled at famous (and infamous) people who wasted their lives persuing useless causes.

what you don't realize is that some poeple -evidently not you- can derive their "personal satisfaction and joy" from what you think are "useless causes"

That letter did not explain much, except that he thought he was going to strike a blow against capitalism.

So the point that abraxas misses here is that he was striking a blow against the majority of Chileans. But like abraxas, these egotistical people think that they are justified in trying to destroy a system that most people want. So really they are hitting out against their own people. This guy was no different from the underwear bomber.

What is really pathetic is that they say they are fighting for the people. Saying one thing and doing the opposite is what I lived with in Cuba for 10 years.

No. "the majority of chileans" never got asked whether they wanted a so called capitalist society or not, we got it imposed upon us. same as it happened in most countries. the richest 1% controls the country and the pawns have to follow. it's only normal and natural to feel like rebelling against a system that we don't want to be a part of.

luciano pitronello was fighting for the people, for millions of chileans and anarchists throughout the world who share his ideals.

once upon a time henry david thoreau refused to pay his taxes because they were going to a state that supported immoral practices such as slavery. he was regarded as a rebel and, perhaps in today's media speak, close to an anarchist. yet, no one doubts that his stance was fair today.

.

Good point. Thoreau made his protest without destroying people or property. He didn't try to bomb the local tax office.

08-14-2012 11:34 AM

buddyholly

Re: Luciano Pitronello solidarity thread

I don't think I ever entered into the discussion on the possibility of physically striking against the people. You have not understood. I said that his idea was to attack the people through attacking their preferred system, not that he was trying to kill people.

Should I blow up an empty church because I believe religion is evil? Of course not, I have no right at all to stop people living their lives as they wish. Same goes for a fool with a badly made bomb. He had no right right to blow up an empty bank than I have to blow up an empty church! It's pretty simple. I have no right to blow up a church so that worshipers can not attend service the next day. He had no right to blow up a bank so that people could not withdraw their savings the next day.
If everyone one blew up empty buildings that represent something they personally don't like, nobody would be able to sleep at night for the noise.

It's pretty simple, nobody in his right mind would ever come to the conclusion that the bomber was acting on behalf of the people. To do what he did one would have to have disdain for the people and a completely self-centred mission.

My position is that if you have to resort to destroying property get attention, then you probably already know that nobody would support what you might have to say.

08-14-2012 07:09 AM

Shinoj

Re: Luciano Pitronello solidarity thread

BuddyHolly, its pretty simple, unlike your most of the posts, If he wanted to strike against the people, he would have done it in a market or a Church or wherever there are majority of the public. And if he didnt do that he didnt mean to hurt the public. Not stop your over complicated posts.

08-14-2012 12:35 AM

coluta

Re: Luciano Pitronello solidarity thread

By your definition of wasting one's life.
And by your definition of personal satisfaction and joy.

Imagine if Gandhi, Karl Marx, Luther King all stayed at home looking after their families.

No, your personal satisfaction and joy is the most important thing of all. You only have one life, might be over tomorrow, might be over in 50 years. Why waste your time? I figure, the more time I spend happy and satisfied, the better life I am living and that is the only thing that matters. Being a martyr for some cause that will be irrelevant in a few hundred years does not interest me at all and I am baffled at famous (and infamous) people who wasted their lives persuing useless causes.

Well, you can't cherry pick and take only the good stuff while avoiding the bad. ECB is in Germany and I imagine that wasn't without ample benefits.

Yes, the ECB is located in Frankfurt but still Germany only has 2 votes (Asmussen and Weidmann) when it comes to decisions. The ECB could also be located in Ouagadougou, Germany or every other european country would have the same influence.

It would be impossible to find a candidate that would act as you would wish in every government decision. In each riding we vote for the candidate we would prefer to be the one making the decisions.

I know politicians are not very high on the trustworthy meter, but I would not feel capable of making decisions on how to save the euro or whether too many failed banks would be an even bigger disaster..

Don´t get me wrong. Personally I support this policy because I really do have the fear of growing Xenophobia and protectionism if the Euro collapses. This could harm all european economies more than it would do any good.

But you spoke about the opinion of the majority and at least according to all of the opinion polls I read, the majorities in most countries are against this policy.

I really favour representative democracy above all other forms of governing, but in this crisis you can see it´s borders.

Still that never excuses terrorism in a democracy.

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