I don't have any "hatered" towards you, I just think you're literally stupid. Regarding that point, you stated the Quran is a more important document than the US Constitution which I equated to stating science fiction is more important than documentaries. There's no point bringing this up when you can't differentiate between ancient religious text and the basic laws constituting US Government. Retard strike number 3. You are officially full retard right now.

Not more "important" numb skull, MORE INFLUENTIAL. Documents are nothing, if they don't influence or inspire the reader.

They can't roll out products on every single platform at once. What the hell do you realistically expect? Vishnu and BMS already have a large chunk of the market you want AA to invest significant resources to fight over table scraps?

No, I expect them not to try and own my GODDAM car, with their monopolizing marketing philosophy.

As am I, brah, on all counts . I'll get the e9x stuff out of the way first...Frankly, I've never really paid any attention to what AA does on the N54, as the products simply haven't stood out as exceptional. Sure, the downpipes aren't bad, but they aren't AR, and there are options that are equal but less $, so I haven't really found them relevant. As for the S65 S/Cs, the hardware and strip #s have always looked nice to me, I certainly can't fault them in that arena, however, they were a day late and dollar short, and the numbers/hardware quality out of the likes of VF, ESS, Evolve, etc for comparable setups are competitive enough that the voting comes down to things that are secondary to performance #s...in many cases, one's wallet will make the biggest difference. You voted with your wallet...and AA didn't get your vote. And just like AA, I can remember problems that each of the aforementioned makers (Evolve not so much, however) have had on different platforms, during different periods of time.

I am referencing AA of the early-mid 2000s, in the S50/52 days, back when they were doing something that was admittedly far more challenging than slapping a centrifugal S/C onto an N/A car, for which I will always give them credit. I remember a time when AA showed pictures of beautifully fabricated ICs and mandrel bent, powdercoated IC piping in their E36 M3 kits, and had a PR snafu on their hands when many owners found that had shipped cars to AA for their turbo install had crudely crush bent tubes that had literally been whaled on repeatedly with a hammer, to the point that diameter shrunk to nearly 1" at a number of points, looking like a tattered mess that a Somalian mechanic would be ashamed of. And it's no wonder that these same cars had issues running properly. Speaking of running properly, I remember a time when it was simply a question of time as to when the head would lift on the higher level kit (stage 2+/3) AA turbo cars. Never mind the fact that this would happen regardless of whether or not the car was OBD-II or I, Karl somehow convinced people that this problem would be fixed on OBD-II cars by swapping to OBD-I (at great expense), killing the car's emissions compliance, only to have the head lift...again. And when these people confronted Karl about it, armed with the advice of seasoned tuners who suggested that the issue may be caused by a timing curve that was eerily stocklike and far too aggressive for the application, he would threaten to not help them at all with the situation if anyone went public, and would instead blame the driving habits of the end user, installer error, or some other bogus claim that would point blame away from his tuning or hardware; since AA was the only one tuning turbo cars at that time, nobody had much of an alternative except to play Karl's game. It's why guys like Omar with his AA built GT40R'd M coupe had a car that sat for years and years, and never ran beyond an ill fated maiden voyage, leaving him no option but to sell it years later at a ridiculously painful loss. And by the time other tuning/hardware options started showing up, AA had already focused their attention elsewhere, namely the S/C kits, primarily for the e46 M3, which would certainly give them less grief than the turbo stuff. And let us not forget the time when they attempted to dive back into turbocharging, this time on the E46 M3, with Vik Taza's car, whom they charged somewhere in the neighborhood of 100k for the privilege of a "big power turbo M3" that never ran right and blew up pretty fast. Regardless of my opinion about Taza, it's still a pretty $#@!ty situation. There was also the issue of the AA exhausts which were advertised as built entirely in the US, with the owners being rightfully pissed after AA was exposed as having the exhausts made in China at nearly 1/10th the cost of MSRP...they learned their lesson on that one. And there was that more recent blowup over the guy who had REALLY been tuning their cars who claimed that AA hired him in house to get the tuning right on their hardware kits, made him all sorts of promises, only to steal his IP and fire him immediately after that. Not going to say much more about that, simply because I believe that getting the truth on either side in a situation like that is rather difficult. There are more instances of unscrupulous behavior which I can cite, but I think the point has been made.

Which brings us to the present day, where AA pushes exhaust/intake components made overseas which they make a minimum 5x profit on, SC kits that likely aren't far behind, tunes they make god knows how much on, and pushing wheels (ADV.1) made by a known thief (360 Forged). And by Andrew's admission, these are the hallmarks of a company which doesn't cater to (more involved) gearheads. Frankly, that's totally fine by me, and a business decision that is completely understandable given the brand equity they have. It's why a friend of mine purchased their downpipes and tune...the brand equity. With that kind of brand equity (at least in the short term), one doesn't have a huge incentive to push the boundaries very far, because one simply makes a whole lot more money doing it the way AA does it now vs. before. Do they necessarily cater to all of us? No, but frankly, they were smart enough to realize that catering to the hardcore gearheads is something that costs a lot more, with an ROI that isn't as appetizing as the low hanging fruit of the set it and forget it types. But if you ask me, repackaging other's stuff, and making hardware kits is no reason to hold AA in any kind of higher regard, and it's not one that helps sustain the brand equity they built during their turbo days. AA's invitation to customers to "Come Play With Power" had much more of a calling and relevance 10 years ago, when they catered to those who truly wished to push their cars to the bleeding edge. And with BMW moving full steam ahead toward a lineup that is completely FI, I think they are going to have to seriously rethink their business strategy if they wish to retain that brand equity, let alone remain relevant in the tuning world. And if one believes that they have spent 30 years providing the type of gear that they provide now (set it and forget it, but hardly at the bleeding edge or front of the pack), or that they really are pushing the envelope with their own software, one would be sorely mistaken.

Cliffs: AA isn't bad these days, but they don't have the sterling reputation over time that everyone seems to think they do.

Your remarkable stubbornness and inability to listen is nearly as amusing as your stupidity. See above. If you love that graph so much, go send your car to them. And using HKS/Rotrex centri blowers instead of Vortechs is not innovative, deluding oneself otherwise would be the fever dreams of a narrow minded fanboy. Get back to me when AA puts out a TS S65 that works. In less than 10 years, Cobb has managed to take on the single hardest aspect of performance modification (tuning, specifically through a stock ECU), and has managed to do so across completely unrelated platforms, whose only thing in common was the extreme complexity and difficulty involved in cracking them. Hardware is the easy part. If the tuning aspect were as easy as the hardware part, there would be TS and turbo S65s and turbo C63s running around everywhere tuned on the stock DME, it wouldn't have taken almost 12 years since the E46 M3's introduction to get a DME tuned E46 M3 turbo kit, your car wouldn't have sat around for as long as it has, etc.

Lol, I love how you tout yourself and this place as unbiased...

Your denseness is truly remarkable.

Agreed.

And others have their head so far up the S65's ass that they wear themselves as a hat.

The biggest change is the way so called enthusiasts handle themselves when something happens. Everyone wants to push the limits but when something happens to the motor then they cry and threaten and blame anyone with a large wallet. Back in the day if someone blew an engine pushing 500 hp on a car that came with 230 they would man up and buy a new engine because it happens. E36 pioneers stand up!

If you do not think this changes business models think again.

It's called: "The customer is always right", buddy. This is what made giant retailers, and is the central point of our consumer economy. Hope you are not one of the top guys at active, cuz I can't believe I just read that.

@Turkeybaster115 @yandyr , if only I had the ability to + rep you. I said my piece, and to any intelligent, logical and sane person, it makes perfect sense. He's using lures made of well seasoned crazy and stupid to push an agenda that crossed the border into absurd a long time ago. Trying to prove your point using sound logic is futile, he has demonstrated his complete aversion to anything remotely resembling logic, sanity or intelligence. Stick to your guns, but don't get dragged down to his level of idiocy, as he truly embodies how you will simply be beaten with experience.

Edit: Speaking of rep, funny how my rational, logical quasi-essay was liked by 7 out of 10 members, yet I somehow have less than half the rep I had yesterday. Enjoying your controls, oh Wizard of Oz?

I'll keep you alive on the rep side. No worries, I have more than enough to share. For now, I need to rep other people before I can rep you back

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I dont get all the hate towards AA..people say they arent perfect, but who is? AA has been around for a very long time, and they have done some great things..like it was said before, they are a full service shop, and Im not sure how many of you have actually visited their shop, but I can tell you..they are top of the line shop, I was very impressed on my first vist their. Its funny that because their primary focus isnt the N54/55, all the fanboys start hating on them..you talk to anyone else who doesnt own an N54/55, and AA is at the top of their list

It's called: "The customer is always right", buddy. This is what made giant retailers, and is the central point of our consumer economy. Hope you are not one of the top guys at active, cuz I can't believe I just read that.

The customer is always right? So if you $#@! up shifting and blow your engine..its the tuners fault? Dude, that makes no sense. You pay to play, and when things go wrong you take accountability..unless of course its completely obvious beyond a reasonable doubt that the tuner was at fault..

try pulling that "customer is always right" at a BMW dealer after a serious malfunction due to driver error..see what they tell you..

Andrew, Man UP. I've been driven at the track, in your supercharged E92 M3 (frozen grey), which was owned by one of you guys. Spectacular tune (+ supercharger), and very smooth power delivery. There is still plenty of room for you guys to make money with our engine. You just have to offer a package that makes more financial sense to the consumer, in the current economic environment.

I do not understand what you are trying to say?

The N54 tuning maret is very open right now and a ton of companies are jumping in. In the business world we call this a saturated market. Does it make sense to spend 100% of our time and resources to make 2% of the n54 owners happy with e85 maps? (NO) Is it something we will look into when we have some free time? (Of Course!)

It's called: "The customer is always right", buddy. This is what made giant retailers, and is the central point of our consumer economy. Hope you are not one of the top guys at active, cuz I can't believe I just read that.

Is this guys serious? You are the exact type of person I have described in my post. So let me get this straight.. lets say you install a tune by Xyz And you turn it up to 21 psi put meth, e85 basically maxing the n54 turbo and you blow the turbos or the engine. You would go back to tuner Xyz and demand they pay for the parts and labor?

If its directly related to the part purchased and it has not been altered in anyway then you have every right to ask for help in the situation.

Is this guys serious? You are the exact type of person I have described in my post. So let me get this straight.. lets say you install a tune by Xyz And you turn it up to 21 psi put meth, e85 basically maxing the n54 turbo and you blow the turbos or the engine. You would go back to tuner Xyz and demand they pay for the parts and labor?

Even I don't agree with him on that, there comes a time that a person needs to own up to their mistakes/$#@!ups.

Even I don't agree with him on that, there comes a time that a person needs to own up to their mistakes/$#@!ups.

Of course every situation is different, but to say the customer is always right is just crazy. Just look how many people go back to Bmw to claim warranty repairs on modded cars knowing the parts they have installed have caused the problems.

I would say if a custom "tuner" made a tune that I was told is solid and the car runs "healthy" on, and it blows up because of improper tuning, It would in fact be the "tuners" fault.

If I told them, I want the raged edge (even then you cant build a motor to blow up) and If I did something that nobody has done before that is "pushing" limits and something blows up because of the unknown of tuning, then you would have to bite the bullet and say, "we found the edge".

I would say if a custom "tuner" made a tune that I was told is solid and the car runs "healthy" on, and it blows up because of improper tuning, It would in fact be the "tuners" fault.

If I told them, I want the raged edge (even then you cant build a motor to blow up) and If I did something that nobody has done before that is "pushing" limits and something blows up because of the unknown of tuning, then you would have to bite the bullet and say, "we found the edge".

So thats my .02

If a tune is indeed running "healthy" it should remain healthy unless some other engine problems come into play. But I understand what you are trying to say and I agree. Unfortunately this is not the real world and people will continue to place blame on anyone but themselves or bad luck.

Before this thread gets even more off topic I was just trying to explain why business models change.

It's called: "The customer is always right", buddy. This is what made giant retailers, and is the central point of our consumer economy. Hope you are not one of the top guys at active, cuz I can't believe I just read that.

sorry, thats just stupid. when it comes to performance, its clearly not even close. the customer is not always right. a well running 10psi car, any car, gets a junkie throwing 20psi at it with no changes blows his motor.. claims bad tuning or hardware,wants company to pay for rebuild, is he still right?

The N54 tuning maret is very open right now and a ton of companies are jumping in. In the business world we call this a saturated market. Does it make sense to spend 100% of our time and resources to make 2% of the n54 owners happy with e85 maps? (NO) Is it something we will look into when we have some free time? (Of Course!)

It's called: "The customer is always right", buddy. This is what made giant retailers, and is the central point of our consumer economy. Hope you are not one of the top guys at active, cuz I can't believe I just read that.

The customer is always right? So if you $#@! up shifting and blow your engine..its the tuners fault? Dude, that makes no sense. You pay to play, and when things go wrong you take accountability..unless of course its completely obvious beyond a reasonable doubt that the tuner was at fault..try pulling that "customer is always right" at a BMW dealer after a serious malfunction due to driver error..see what they tell you..

Dinan has replaced ALL the BMW engines that broke with their tune. Even in cases where it was obvious that it couldn't have been tune related. Others aren't as nice as dinan, and don't warranty your engine, however, you won't find then on a public forum dogging consumers!

Is this guys serious? You are the exact type of person I have described in my post. So let me get this straight.. lets say you install a tune by Xyz And you turn it up to 21 psi put meth, e85 basically maxing the n54 turbo and you blow the turbos or the engine. You would go back to tuner Xyz and demand they pay for the parts and labor?

If its directly related to the part purchased and it has not been altered in anyway then you have every right to ask for help in the situation.

Look, just do some research. There was a famous case where Dinan ordered a brand new engine for a guy with a blown engine, even though it was clear from the dealership service records, that he had issues with the engine before the tune.

sorry, thats just stupid. when it comes to performance, its clearly not even close. the customer is not always right. a well running 10psi car, any car, gets a junkie throwing 20psi at it with no changes blows his motor.. claims bad tuning or hardware,wants company to pay for rebuild, is he still right?

Flash tunes, especially the ones done at dealerships, or reputable shops, shouldn't do anything wrong to the motor. Yes the customer is always right. So if you are like AA, GIAC, EVOLVE or whoever, and you are running a buisness model, where you warranty only the tune, then obviously if it's an engine issue, then the customer has to prove it was the tune was faulty.

There was a guy with an E90 M3, who purchased an ESS supercharger, and had it tuned and installed. On his drive home, the motor blew. Clearly it was the software, and ESS stepped up to the plate.