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Damnation: and being at 9, we do not endanger town should we mislynch (2 dead come tomorrow, with then 7 alive.

A correction, we are currently at 8.

I am in a favor of a lynch, as I said before, though I also want to point this about Rodzaju. He claims to have done a vigilante kill on the same night you were roleblocked and a kill failed on you (fire). So either the mafia were allowed to do 2 kill attempts (Krypsyn and you), or two different parties tried 2 kills. That of course is assuming the fire wasn't part of the roleblock.

Damnation: and being at 9, we do not endanger town should we mislynch (2 dead come tomorrow, with then 7 alive.

JMich: A correction, we are currently at 8.

I am in a favor of a lynch, as I said before, though I also want to point this about Rodzaju. He claims to have done a vigilante kill on the same night you were roleblocked and a kill failed on you (fire). So either the mafia were allowed to do 2 kill attempts (Krypsyn and you), or two different parties tried 2 kills. That of course is assuming the fire wasn't part of the roleblock.

Damnation: Telika I'm actually getting more cautious about. He's the one taking Joe's rather odd plan, one that Joe even said we should ignore, and is trying to push it through, and actively argueing (And frankly, quite poorly) as to why we should NOT lynch anyone today, despite a lynch working perfectly into his plan short of one thing - potentially outing BOTH Rob AND Rod as town. So consider the role he claims he has, how could he possibly be mafia? Simple enough - There is absolutely NO evidence that mafia CANNOT use items, and there is absolutely NO evidence that mafia CANNOT be offered the items for purchase. Further more, considering the highly odd killing pattern (One poisoning during night 1, potentially a failed poisoning night 2, a potentially failed kill night 3, a kill night 4 and no apparent kill attempt night 5) seems to strange for it to be consistent enough - a mafia poisoner who is altered to poison the target if he is to perform the kill makes the night kill very weak, especially considering the protection the town seemingly has. Thus, I think it's more likely to be like Joe suggested, that the mafia buys the type of kill, and might have poison as a free effect. I refuse to believe that coins are useless to the mafia, otherwise it makes next to no sense for the mafia to actually be able to steal coins, beyond preventing town from buying items, but that just doesn't seem like enough justification. Thus, I think it would make sense for the mafia to have multiple roles that earn money, and the Fisherman apparently earns money on sales, as does the Inventor.

So. 1) What "joe's rather odd plan" ?

2) The mafia earns money by arming the town against the mafia ?

3) ...in order to re-buy from town the items they have sold to town ?

4) Incidentally, the mafia fisherman is called the town fisherman which makes my full title "Amenken the fisherman : Mafia Town Fisherman" ?

5) What is the mafia benefit in progressing with cop rather than with lynch when nightkill neutralisation is possible, already ?

4) Incidentally, the mafia fisherman is called the town fisherman which makes my full title "Amenken the fisherman : Mafia Town Fisherman" ?

5) What is the mafia benefit in progressing with cop rather than with lynch when nightkill neutralisation is possible, already ?

1 - the no lynching, he was the first to mention it and said it was a stupid idea then.

2/3 - Repurchasing would only be necessary if they got it offered. And yes, they would arm the town with items. Sell an item for 20, you gain enough money for an unblockable kill, for instance. It's all about balance, Telika, so don't pretend it's nonsensical.

4 - I'm sorry? Why would your role be "Mafia Town Fisherman" if you were mafia?

5 - Simple. If I survive the next three nights and we perform no lynches, would you really find me trustworthy, considering our doctor is dead?

Telika: 2) The mafia earns money by arming the town against the mafia?

Are you talking about Joe? He could be doing that, if for example Vitek had vigged someone. He could claim to have tracked Vitek during the night, thus proving Vitek did the kill, then claim ignorance since it was a vigilante kill and not a mafia one. As for others, again, only the fig is the odd thumb there. If you are talking about yourself, only item you claim to have sold is the tracking, which at this point is largely useless to the mafia. Most power roles are known or dead, and if there's only 1 alive, who would he track?

Telika: 3) ...in order to re-buy from town the items they have sold to town ?

We do know we have 2 people who can sell items, Joe and you. Joe doesn't know the affiliation of those he sells to, and I don't find it impossible that you could give an item to a co-conspirator, if you truly are mafia.

As for roles, I still think that the town part could be an indication of place and not of affiliation. So if you are scum, you would be "Telika, Mafia Fisherman".

4) Incidentally, the mafia fisherman is called the town fisherman which makes my full title "Amenken the fisherman : Mafia Town Fisherman" ?

5) What is the mafia benefit in progressing with cop rather than with lynch when nightkill neutralisation is possible, already ?

Damnation: 1 - the no lynching, he was the first to mention it and said it was a stupid idea then.

2/3 - Repurchasing would only be necessary if they got it offered. And yes, they would arm the town with items. Sell an item for 20, you gain enough money for an unblockable kill, for instance. It's all about balance, Telika, so don't pretend it's nonsensical.

4 - I'm sorry? Why would your role be "Mafia Town Fisherman" if you were mafia?

5 - Simple. If I survive the next three nights and we perform no lynches, would you really find me trustworthy, considering our doctor is dead?

1. Sure about that ? What I remember is some weird "send hints to JMich/TB" forget-it plan, and some untold thing about another sold object (same thing) ? Both seemed quite distinct from my mere continuations of yesterday's plan...

2. So you mean they have a mafia inventor in addition to the town inventor ?

4. Joe has been clear about having me labelled as "town fisherman", which JMich supposes to mean "fisherman that inhabits the same town". By the way here's the wiki on fisherman. I don't see in there (apart from any mention of scum equivalent, but this game may be atypical) any reason to add a "town" to the title, if it's not to designate affiliation.

5. Awesome. And again, the long term benefit is what ? You flip town cop, everybody has been cleared by you except the mafia. Next step ?

Telika: 1. Sure about that ? What I remember is some weird "send hints to JMich/TB" forget-it plan, and some untold thing about another sold object (same thing) ? Both seemed quite distinct from my mere continuations of yesterday's plan...

2. So you mean they have a mafia inventor in addition to the town inventor ?

4. Joe has been clear about having me labelled as "town fisherman", which JMich supposes to mean "fisherman that inhabits the same town". By the way here's the wiki on fisherman. I don't see in there (apart from any mention of scum equivalent, but this game may be atypical) any reason to add a "town" to the title, if it's not to designate affiliation.

5. Awesome. And again, the long term benefit is what ? You flip town cop, everybody has been cleared by you except the mafia. Next step ?

1 - I might need to do a reread when I get enough time

2 - When did I say that? That's a fairly interesting interpretation of something that doesn't hint towards it at all. IF you think the "Yes they would be arming the town" is me saying that they have a mafia inventor, I doubt I need to remind you that you started saying they were arming town.

4 - Or, you know it could also be added protection to a potential mafia fisherman?

5 - Depends on a lot of things, really, what if I land one of the mafia, and one or two uncopped, that leaves still open room. Nothing is certain here, and with Robb stating he was worried about me, because I stated I was busy (Explaining why my interjection was short and why I was not particularly active) and gave only quick words as to SPF being town, meaning he was either A: Trying to spread doubt about me, or B: Doubting me himself. It's exactly this that the mafia could use against us right now, and keeping me alive and letting town lynch me provides them with a much better scenario for now.

Also, you entered a somewhat defense mode right now, haven't you? You don't seem to care at all about anything else I stated in my post beyond that which directly deals with YOU.

Damnation as Cop. In his favour - there has been NO counter-claim. By now you would have expected it. Therefore I'm inclined to take his views seriously. I was indeed worried about his short posts, as a Town Cop should really be giving out as much info as possible to help Town at this late point in the game, but RL restrictions I can fully understand so I basically retracted that anyway - I DID apologise..;)

I've said from the time I made my claim I'm willing to be lynched to verify it - I stand by that completely. Its getting a bit tight though, so if you want to do it , do it today. Whatever helps Town win. Lynching ANYONE now to verify their claim could bust this game wide open, so I think we should carefully consider who.

There's only been one person pushing the plans relentlessly, always making sure they're not in the firing line themselves.

It's time to put up or shut up I think. I've never been happy with the big 'plans' right from the start, and if our Cop smells something fishy, then I think its definitely the right time to do this...

Robbeasy: I've said from the time I made my claim I'm willing to be lynched to verify it - I stand by that completely.

Flip-flopping much ? Okay with lynching you as long as you're not getting lyncheed ?

Voting me for proposing a way to corner mafia without risking "mislynching" you ? Seeing it as terrible murderous town-slaughtering manipulation when it implied the lynch, but also seeing it as terrible manipulation when it doesn't (just because) ?

You people want it the hard way, okay.

Cop cops me, we lynch Rod/Rob, tracker tracks Rod/Rob. Brutal, shut, and includes me in the equation. The no lynch option required half-certitude of mafia being Rob/Rod, looks like still we're far from that.

Also, if I die and flip town, Joe is town. Don't waste you ressources on him.

Robbeasy: I've said from the time I made my claim I'm willing to be lynched to verify it - I stand by that completely.

Telika: Flip-flopping much ? Okay with lynching you as long as you're not getting lyncheed ?

Voting me for proposing a way to corner mafia without risking "mislynching" you ? Seeing it as terrible murderous town-slaughtering manipulation when it implied the lynch, but also seeing it as terrible manipulation when it doesn't (just because) ?

You people want it the hard way, okay.

Cop cops me, we lynch Rod/Rob, tracker tracks Rod/Rob. Brutal, shut, and includes me in the equation. The no lynch option required half-certitude of mafia being Rob/Rod, looks like still we're far from that.

Also, if I die and flip town, Joe is town. Don't waste you ressources on him.

Actually... That's a decent proposal... I cop you, and we track Rod who claims to have one last shot on his vigilante ability... We then lynch Rob who has plenty times stated he would gladly see himself go if it would help town and clear himself. If Rob flips mafia, is there a point to change the targeting around?

Damnation: Further, if we do NOT lynch today, I get offed tonight and we track the scum who does not perform the kill, we'll be even WORSE off than we possibly could if we lynched someone today.

AH YES This is excellent reason for why the nolynch could go horribly wrong. Well thought Damnation! I've learned that I shouldn't come up with plans. Learning By Mistaking!

Alright. I'm most happy to lynch RoDzaJu, then Rob Beasy, then Tequila. Tequila being killed will confirm me, which would be nice. It would also destroy potential for town power-role - which is looking like less of a luxury and more of a necessity despite my optimism. ALTHOUGH if it's going to be a choice between investigating or lynching Telika, I think I would prefer the lynching option. Not Copping Rodzaju or Robbeasy tonight seems like a bad idea.

I could start talking here about how lynching me is as equally a viable option as lynching Telika, but I won't because I said before about how I'm not going to pretend to want to be lynched, as much as Robbeasy's rocking the style.

Telika: Uh, no wait. Because I outed Amunra, so I'm a Godfather now, in addition to be mafia town fisherman mafia inventor fence pacifist poisoner (3 shots).

Damnation: How about we turn down the drama, or are you entering selfdestruct mode, Rodzaju?

Sorry, sarcasm mode locked on. Deal with it. But seriously, if I am mafia, then I am an usurper. It is the only reason why I would have lynched Pazzer/Flubbucket. So, cop on me is useless.

Actually, track would be useless too, in practice, as, if I was intending to kill you, I would have done it already, like any unchecked player last night. Plus, I'm accused of wanting to use you...

The only thing that would give info on me is a lynch, which would be a big little victory for mafia, killing a town fisherman providing Joe with items, and buying a night's time.

Lynching me would also mean that I became the main suspect, above Rob/Rod, for having being proactive in scumhunting (no argument except "hmmm... i don't like this, too much planning in that planning", and I don't mention the "hah, and LYNCH YET SOMEBODY ELSE? SCUMMY!" turning into "hah, and NOT LYNCH SOMEBODY ELSE? SCUMMY!" at will). The mere fact of planning an investigation is incriminating, and the content (lynch or no lynch) doesn't seem to matter absolutely at all. Nor does the previous night result (no kill so far).

And if Rod/Rob stay the main suspects, then, back to square one. The focus on them, with or without lynch. Without for class, victory maximisation, and (ironically) avoidance of plan scumminess. With for brutal efficiency at expense of possible sacrifice. Brutal gamebreak being here : lynch one, cop and track the other (cop is shielded from his almost-certain-scum target : if dead, his target can't go "wasn't me, it's all a manipulation", we do know whether the killer is "outside" or not). It's a choice of style, and at this point, we have the choice of style. I voted for my choice, feel free to vote for the other plan... And to discuss their esthetic merits after the game's end.

If I'm not an usurper, why would I have outed the Godfather ? Wouldn't the mafia win more easily with a godgather secretely roaming around ?

If I'm an usurper, why wouldn't I have spontaneously included myself in the plan, or insisted at some point that Damnation wastes an investigation on me instead of clearing/outing others ?

More generally, if I am mafia, why wouldn't I encourage lynch-based plans ? To protect the life of a co-scum that I'm precisely cornering with non-lethal investigations, and who'd be identified by cop/track anyway ?