If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

If the writer's intention was to ignore original Mewtwo's existence in this movie, then why in the first trailer for this movie they showed a scene where Ash recognized Mewtwo when it arrived? Here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfpqnmOjMRQ
It was like this: Mewtwo arrives saving Ash from Red Genesect's attack, Ash sees it and says: "Mewtwo!"... and then Cilan seems surprised because Ash knows who that pokemon is. It's around second 50 of that video.

Well, my question is: Why did they change that part in the movie? Why did they change their mind about it? They clearly wanted Ash to recognize it at first, but then something happened and they changed their mind... why?

Could it be a decision they took after this preview was released? I don't really know, but it's an interesting thing to discuss here. What do you think people?

If the writer's intention was to ignore original Mewtwo's existence in this movie, then why in the first trailer for this movie they showed a scene where Ash recognized Mewtwo when it arrived? Here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfpqnmOjMRQ
It was like this: Mewtwo arrives saving Ash from Red Genesect's attack, Ash sees it and says: "Mewtwo!"... and then Cilan seems surprised because Ash knows who that pokemon is. It's around second 50 of that video.

Well, my question is: Why did they change that part in the movie? Why did they change their mind about it? They clearly wanted Ash to recognize it at first, but then something happened and they changed their mind... why?

Could it be a decision they took after this preview was released? I don't really know, but it's an interesting thing to discuss here. What do you think people?

It was the first movie trailer, so of course it was way off. I think they merely wanted to increase hype, so they made it seem like it was the old Mewtwo and it worked. Almost everyone was convinced that the iconic, classic Mewtwo was coming back only to have their hopes sink in recent weeks. Mr. Yuyama is a master of the art of hyping.

And I'm also wondering...laying all issues aside of HOW they got Mewtwo DNA blueprints so they could try again to make another AND assuming for the moment the first Mewtwo is still canon...who had the bright idea in the first place that instead of just chasing down the first one, they'd just make another, their own, and it'd be hunky-dorey this time if they just implemented a few extra "precautions" in place. That just shows sheer stupidity.

Who the hell knows. Obviously it had to be a team of scientists who were willing to pay the expenses of it (for the equipment and the excavation for a fossil--unless there was a man behind the curtain paying for everything), put in many man-hours, even sacrifice sleep and their own health, for months or even years, and had the knowledge in the first place and was trying to one-up Giovanni.

This is if it really is a second Mewtwo and not the replacement scrappy for the entire series.

The final opinion on whether Ash recognized Mewtwo or not should be left for the future when we watch the movie for ourselves. But the fact that they left an ambiguity when they could have spent just one sentence to satisfy us (which they did in the trailer) is saddening.

If the writer's intention was to ignore original Mewtwo's existence in this movie, then why in the first trailer for this movie they showed a scene where Ash recognized Mewtwo when it arrived? Here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfpqnmOjMRQ
It was like this: Mewtwo arrives saving Ash from Red Genesect's attack, Ash sees it and says: "Mewtwo!"... and then Cilan seems surprised because Ash knows who that pokemon is. It's around second 50 of that video.

Well, my question is: Why did they change that part in the movie? Why did they change their mind about it? They clearly wanted Ash to recognize it at first, but then something happened and they changed their mind... why?

Could it be a decision they took after this preview was released? I don't really know, but it's an interesting thing to discuss here. What do you think people?

That was probably a trailer only scene, and was never intended to be in the movie. In the actual movie it is much different with mewtwo in its other form. They probably just needed someone to say what Mewtwo was and they chose Ash to do it. Plus that scene was also only in the trailers until the new mewtwo form was revealed. Scenes changed for the movie happens all the time.

To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption, that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...

Ignoring continuity like this, creating plot-holes like this without even trying to give an explanation... is despicable. And people like Taidow trying to justify this are even more despicable. For their own dignity and intelligence as fans.

Thanks for the laugh. I think you just discredited yourself instead in both areas.

Now, I'm hoping the dub will correct this HUGE mistake and change the dialogues in that scene, making Ash recognize Mewtwo. Hell, if they did it with Misty so we could think she loved Ash, then why not do it now? Please, do it.

They don't do that anymore.

Dub people, you can SAVE the fans from this movie. Just make Ash recognize Mewtwo and Mewtwo say: "I don't know you"... and the next thing Ash says being "So you are not who I think you were..." Or something along those lines, then continue the story as the original.

Dude, just stop.

If they've corrected Pidgeotto's color change in Charizard's return episode, then they HAVE to correct this.

Yes because that's entirely the same thing as this.

If not, I'll just see this movie as a NON-CANON thing. I'll just assume this movie is out of the official canon of the previous movies and anime.

Nope.

Originally Posted by The Great Butler

Eh, I'm just going to ignore that this is a fake Mewtwo and pretend it's the real one so I can enjoy it, because everything else sounds excellent.

It's not like we're going to see either Mewtwo again anyway.

I'm guessing they will get another movie, where both Mewtwo meet each other and Mewtwo♂ gets the other Forme change that the Pokébeach rumors mentioned, while Mewtwo♀ sticks with Awakened Forme. Who knows in the games the two items could be version exclusives. Perhaps Awakened Forme in X with Xerneas being the Life Pokémon and a Corrupt Forme in Y with Yveltal being the Deterioration Pokémon.

Originally Posted by lolipiece

By that logic, everyone in this show that has a feminine voice is a girl.

Sorry, Jessie's Yanmega. You're actually a boy.

Well voices are species specific, male Yanmega voices could be even deeper than Jessie's Yanmega. Look at Leavanny, it's male voice is still pretty feminine but not as much as the female one.

Originally Posted by Dephender

Ok, guys.
They showed the scene where Satoshi and Mewtwo first meet on Smash.
It was just as "can be taken either way"-ish as in the manga, and did in no way "confirm" that he didn't remember meeting a Mewtwo before.

Thanks for the clarification.

8th November 2016

Originally Posted by Janovy

Sophocles develops a crush on Ash and acts all tsundere towards him....

Originally Posted by waterShuriken

No its Togedemaru with Pikachu instead. Explains the rivalry. The opposite of Buneary.

Originally Posted by Janovy

Oh nice. And then Togademaru kisses Pikachu and the fans of the ship argue Pikachu x Togademaru is totally canon. I could see that...

Originally Posted by WaterShuriken

Something about Togedemaru must be tingling according to the title. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

By that logic, everyone in this show that has a feminine voice is a girl.

Sorry, Jessie's Yanmega. You're actually a boy.

I don't see why people uses Jessie's Yanmega as an example, especially since ever since it being confirmed being female, her demonic voice is really feminine, or higher pitched than what would be normal.

I started cackling like a mad hyena. The hopes and dreams of a million fanboys were dashed in an instant.

... but I for one welcome our new prissy Legendary and am perfectly fine with her existence. Also kind of throws the There can only be one Legendary myth completely out the window because by gosh if that hasn't been completely deconfirmed by the anime at this point.

Except for Mewtwo it makes no sense.

Mewtwo isn't a natural species that happens to be super-rare, no no. He's man-made. He was made with specific instructions. He's a one-off. Both M01 and MR pretty much established that making another Mewtwo would be highly difficult if not impossible without at least getting ahold of Mewtwo.

And then we get Team Generic Scientists Inc. who coincidentaly find Mew DNA (which is not easy to find), coincidently clone a stronger Mew that looks just like the first stronger Mew clone AND coincidentaly name it exactly like the first stronger Mew clone.

It's all very contrived and relies on a bunch of nobodies doing the exact same thing as some dead guys who they likely didn't know about only with teeny tiny differences.

Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."

Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

That was probably a trailer only scene, and was never intended to be in the movie. In the actual movie it is much different with mewtwo in its other form. They probably just needed someone to say what Mewtwo was and they chose Ash to do it. Plus that scene was also only in the trailers until the new mewtwo form was revealed. Scenes changed for the movie happens all the time.

Ok, thanks for clarifying it.

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

Thanks for the laugh. I think you just discredited yourself instead in both areas.

I don't think so. Why?

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

They don't do that anymore.

Doesn't mean they can't do it.

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

Dude, just stop.

Not a chance. If you don't like my opinion, just ignore it.

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

Yes because that's entirely the same thing as this.

My point is: if they've corrected such a little mistake as Pidgeottos's hair color, then a major plot-hole like this that can be solved by changing 1 line... kinda have to be done.

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

Nope.

This movie and movie 1 can't exist together in the same canon. Movie 1 is connected with the anime, so it can't be retconned. Conclusion, Movie 16 it's either adjust to the canon or retconned.

And then we get Team Generic Scientists Inc. who coincidentaly find Mew DNA (which is not easy to find), coincidently clone a stronger Mew that looks just like the first stronger Mew clone AND coincidentaly name it exactly like the first stronger Mew clone.

It's all very contrived and relies on a bunch of nobodies doing the exact same thing as some dead guys who they likely didn't know about only with teeny tiny differences.

Truth tea has been spilled. I've already pointed this out before - as have many others - but it's always completely ignored. Most people don't seem bothered by that gaping plot hole; the "there are multiples of every Legendary Pokemon" argument is probably the most flawed explanation for the second Mewtwo that I've read because of the obvious fact that Mewtwo was created by humans. It's not like other Pokemon that are spawned in nature.

Originally Posted by Dracoflare

Dephender says they left an ambiguity for us. We should be grateful that they didn't outright deny it.

They didn't outright confirm it either though, which makes it just as bad imo.

You mean like how you ignored my opinion instead of personally attacking me?

This movie and movie 1 can't exist together in the same canon. Movie 1 is connected with the anime, so it can't be retconned. Conclusion, Movie 16 it's either adjust to the canon or retconned.

Yes they can and they do. Just like Dephender just stated, they left it ambiguous. It is canon as the prologue to the movie mentioned Virgil winning the Unova League. If the prologue is canon, so is the movie. As it also concludes the anime plot of the 5 Genesect.

8th November 2016

Originally Posted by Janovy

Sophocles develops a crush on Ash and acts all tsundere towards him....

Originally Posted by waterShuriken

No its Togedemaru with Pikachu instead. Explains the rivalry. The opposite of Buneary.

Originally Posted by Janovy

Oh nice. And then Togademaru kisses Pikachu and the fans of the ship argue Pikachu x Togademaru is totally canon. I could see that...

Originally Posted by WaterShuriken

Something about Togedemaru must be tingling according to the title. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

You mean like how you ignored my opinion instead of personally attacking me?

Yes they can and they do. Just like Dephender just stated, they left it ambiguous. It is canon as the prologue to the movie mentioned Virgil winning the Unova League. If the prologue is canon, so is the movie. As it also concludes the anime plot of the 5 Genesect.

I didn't attacked you. I just said that trying to justify Ash not recognizing Mewtwo is despicable IMO and put you as an example of that because I've had just read your post.

I didn't know Depehender said that. Well, it's better then. I guess we can interpretate it as we like and it left the possibility of the original Mewtwo returning intact.

I think it's really cool that they had the rivals, N, and the Gym Leaders appear in the credits of this movie. I loved when they did that with the last DP movie! It's a nice farewell to the BW series like Let's Join Hands is. I am disappointed Colress didn't appear in the part showing Genesect's backstory but he had a large role in the anime so I am not going to complain about it.

Hideki Sonoda, the scriptwriter of the movie, was asked about the creation of the second Mewtwo. Here's the translation courtesy of Satoshi (FANG-TAN):

@tomorin0326: If this different individual is a different individual, who created it and how?
@sonodahideki: Bothersome. Use ki. (ki, mood, spirit, energy, air)
@tomorin0326: To be frank, I did not think - sorry! But as a Mewtwo fan, I'm just curious/anxious! Because I like Mewtwo!
@sonodahideki: Compliments are fine. Praise.

This speaks volumes. Tomorin asked a completely acceptable question and was scolded for being rude, with no answer being given.

Originally Posted by _Taidow_

Yes they can and they do. Just like Dephender just stated, they left it ambiguous. It is canon as the prologue to the movie mentioned Virgil winning the Unova League. If the prologue is canon, so is the movie. As it also concludes the anime plot of the 5 Genesect.

The movie contradicts the prologue and fails to reference it in any way.

Hideki Sonoda, the scriptwriter of the movie, was asked about the creation of the second Mewtwo. Here's the translation courtesy of Satoshi (FANG-TAN):

This speaks volumes. Tomorin asked a completely acceptable question and was scolded for being rude, with no answer being given.

Okay, I can understand if they're waiting for a little bit to answer certain kinds of questions since the movie just came out. But to call it "bothersome" instead of just saying "We're not authorized to speak of it at this time" is really rude, especially since the person asked a simple question in a nice tone. He's acting like a newbie writer who won't take any reviews except those of praise for their work.

The Japanese Trailers are infamous for having scenes that differ or are completely omitted from the final product. Sometimes it's done because the trailer is of an early product. Sometime it's the right scene but the wrong actions/angles. And more recently we've seen it played for drama and/or suspense.

Other examples are Zoroark impersonating Ash to make Evil Ash and Ash riding a Pidgeot in one of the Generation 4 movies.

Except for Mewtwo it makes no sense.

It could stand to say that any genetically enhanced version of Mew would spawn a Mewtwo. Simple as that.

Trying to make it not as simple as that is completely disregarding that this is a series where the vast majority of the " science " and technological advances that we see are handwaved. That breeding a hybrid/chimera despite breeding two completely different species is impossible because science. That ... my goodness a lot of things that science says shouldn't happen happen but we accept it because why bother trying to explain it.

Hideki Sonoda, the scriptwriter of the movie, was asked about the creation of the second Mewtwo. Here's the translation courtesy of Satoshi (FANG-TAN):

This speaks volumes. Tomorin asked a completely acceptable question and was scolded for being rude, with no answer being given.

The more I hear about the movie crew the more I am starting to dislike them. This response really gives me the feeling they made this second Mewtwo to screw over Shudo, something they would never openly say.

The more I hear about the movie crew the more I am starting to dislike them. This response really gives me the feeling they made this second Mewtwo to screw over Shudo, something they would never openly say.

I think it may have more to do with the fact that the original Mewtwo arc was Shudo's baby and they didn't want to ruin him, which is fair enough. But then they apparently go and retcon the original Mewtwo out of existence and that's where the problem lies.

I think it may have more to do with the fact that the original Mewtwo arc was Shudo's baby and they didn't want to ruin him, which is fair enough. But then they apparently go and retcon the original Mewtwo out of existence and that's where the problem lies.

Retconning the original Mewtwo out of cannon is a way to screw over Shudo. It's not a way to respect Shudo but to disrespect him.

It could stand to say that any genetically enhanced version of Mew would spawn a Mewtwo. Simple as that.

That literally does not make sense. By that logic, if someone were to just genetically enhance Mew's Dragon type capabilities, out pops a humanoid purple Mew and not just a normal Mew with more powerful Dragon moves.

Trying to make it not as simple as that is completely disregarding that this is a series where the vast majority of the " science " and technological advances that we see are handwaved. That breeding a hybrid/chimera despite breeding two completely different species is impossible because science. That ... my goodness a lot of things that science says shouldn't happen happen but we accept it because why bother trying to explain it.

Except, as I've told you, there is no indication that the scientists knew of the old one's existance. Like, at all.

To children. Who don't care.

There are two Mewtwo. It's canon. Get over it.

Show me scientific proof that all Japanese children are mindless sheep who are 100% incapable of noticing glaring continuity screwups.

Especially bearing in mind that M01 AND MR were broadcast several times before the film was out, so there was ample time for them to learn that an old one existed.

Also "get over it". Elitist, much?

Shokotan: "And then, in Extremespeed Genesect: The Awakening of Mewtwo, we meet another Mewtwo!"
Yuyama: "Yes, I thought it'd be better if it was a different Mewtwo."

Good for you Yuyama. Too bad you've singlehandedly torpedoed any lingering respect I and anyone else had for you.

Like I said, I honestly think they were trying to be respectful but didn't realize they were actually disrespecting him until it was too late.

Seeing as how Yuyama, the director, is presumably "Omae-sama" (The higher-up that prevented Shudo from writing the TRio the way he wanted) I think it was done intentional. Do I have hard proof? No, but that's the feeling I am getting. This reaction from the scriptwriter confirms it even more for me.