I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

Jeriah wrote:I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

I've heard that he was responsible for the bombing, whether that is true or not, I don't know, but I suspect he could have parked and set it off by cell phone.

Jeriah wrote:I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

I've heard that he was responsible for the bombing, whether that is true or not, I don't know, but I suspect he could have parked and set it off by cell phone.

Between that and the body count...is anyone but me confused by how fucking GOOD AT THIS he is? I mean, it's horrible...but he's really good at being horrible. Where does a random wingnut learn to set off car bombs by cell phone and then murder 80 kids? (That is not a rhetorical question. He sounds trained.)

Jeriah wrote:I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

I've heard that he was responsible for the bombing, whether that is true or not, I don't know, but I suspect he could have parked and set it off by cell phone.

To the best of my understanding the police are not sure, they're working by the hypothesis that there are/were more than one perpetrator but only one has been arrested so far. Reports say that a man dressed as a police officer was seen at the site of the bombing prior to the explosion but it's not clear wether it's the same guy that opened fire at the summer camp.

Last time I checked they were still searching the island for survivors so the number of casualtiies is actually expected to rise. It's quite a large island (about 300x250m.) and partially heavily forrested. Many also fled into the water, attempting to swim for safety. So the search is bound to take some time. Bad weather is also expected.

I guess I'm envisioning an open island area with woods and such, and places to, you know, go. Thinking about it, they probably had kids in large groups? Whatever, that is a lot of people, and that's awful.

Reports say he gathered the kids up, saying it was because of the bombing, since he was dressed as a police officer, and then he opened fire. I sooo want to fucking kill this damn animal!!! He does not deserve a trial, lawyer or ANYTHING. He certainly doesnt deserve to live in the 5 star hotels we call prisons in Norway!

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Vampire wrote:Norway is great. Just sit on a deserted mountaintop, and if a zombie happens to stumble upon you trow rocks at him until he rolls all the way down.

Jeriah wrote:
Between that and the body count...is anyone but me confused by how fucking GOOD AT THIS he is? I mean, it's horrible...but he's really good at being horrible. Where does a random wingnut learn to set off car bombs by cell phone and then murder 80 kids? (That is not a rhetorical question. He sounds trained.)

This is something I've been thinking about (and fearing) for some time. Many terrorist acts are carried out by idiots trained by other idiots. I've always feared what would happen when someone who actually knows his business commits a shooting or bombing.

The thing is that this guy is (according to reports) intelligent and well educated, he's rational and capable of planning his actions beforehand.

Regarding training: there are detailed instructions on how to build both timer and remote controlled detonators available for free online. It's actually much easier than most people think. I'd bet a fair sum of money that he learned his bomb making online or from some other dickhead who did. The type of bomb he used leads me to believe that he either just wanted it for distraction or didn't have a very good understanding of the dynamics of blowing stuff up. He might have read up on it, but he ended up mostly busting windows. A 300kg. (figure mentioned by Norweigan media) charge is a hell of a lot of explosives. But the shockwave dissipates rather quickly and isn't all that dangerous to humans. Most casualties in bombings are caused by falling debris.

As for his shooting... I suspect he has some kind of mental disorder, allowing him to stay calm throughout the deed. According to eyewitnesses he was quite calm. Posing as a police officer he lured the children close to him and then executed them at close range. When people started swimming he climbed up on a rock and started shooting them in the water. That tells us two things, he is a decent marksman and he wasn't particularly stressed at that moment.

I understand that this is a damaging and emotional time for Norwegians as a people, and you have my, and I assume most others', deepest sympathy and well wishes. That said, please do not discuss the myriad horrors and various forms of vigilante justice you wish to inflict on the person(s) responsible. ZS is not the place for that.

shrapnel wrote:I guess I'm envisioning an open island area with woods and such, and places to, you know, go. Thinking about it, they probably had kids in large groups? Whatever, that is a lot of people, and that's awful.

Punch this into google maps 60.023761,10.247841 That's the island in question.

There were a 6-700 kids on a fairly small island, and one bastard with a machine gun, a shotgun, a pistol, and a lot of ammo. I don't think they've listed the types of firearms, but those poor kids were just fish in a barrel. Edit: apparently some kids drowned while trying to swim away from the island.

Fuck fuck fuck. I wake up to the news of 80+ kids killed. This is a bad bad day.

I usually don't talk about my political stance, due to the ZS rules, but I feel the need now to say that I was a member of AUF(the youth organization) for years, and have been at that summer camp 2 times. It's small island, and most attendees are kids between 14 - 19 years. Nowhere to run. This is bad.

The killer owned legal guns, and probably used these in the killings. He is a member of a Norwegian gunclub. He also started a farm business in 2009, thus he could get hold of the stuff he needed to make the bomb.

Jeriah wrote:I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

I've heard that he was responsible for the bombing, whether that is true or not, I don't know, but I suspect he could have parked and set it off by cell phone.

Between that and the body count...is anyone but me confused by how fucking GOOD AT THIS he is? I mean, it's horrible...but he's really good at being horrible. Where does a random wingnut learn to set off car bombs by cell phone and then murder 80 kids? (That is not a rhetorical question. He sounds trained.)

"Trained" can mean many things. This is pretty obviously a person who is not sane, so the normal rules go out the window. I'm not a psychiatrist or anything, but I DEFY someone who is, to convince me that actions like this constitute SANE behavior. That said, you have to alter how you think about this, being "on the outside, looking in", as it were.

For whatever reason(s), this person feels justified, perhaps even compelled, to do this. He plans it out, considers options- like a military operation being planned by a general. The only difference being that he is also the only member of the army. He takes his time, plans, gathers materials, trains with his "tools of the trade", and then picks a time to execute his plan. This is all pretty scary stuff, and not only because, until he does, he doesn't pop up on anyone's radar. Remember, the neighbors, when interviewed, almost always say the same thing about 'the lone gunman'- "he was a quiet guy, kept to himself- the last person you'd ever think would do something like this..."

What makes it even scarier, is the ease with which people are able to pull this sort of thing off. In 2001, I did a little mental math, and realized that I had watched one of the planes going south overhead that hit the towers on 9/11. That got me thinking, later on, when the details of the planning came out. I realized that, even with MY crappy credit, I could have arranged the attacks, and set up the time table and airline tickets- it's not like a suicide operative is planning on being around when the bills come in. I, of course, have no motive to do such a thing, but I'm not anything special in the computer department- ANYONE, even me, could have arranged that, just the way it was done, from any home computer.

Those of us who consider our countries to be part of "Western Society", or "First World" , live in open societies. WE have, and enjoy, freedoms. Freedoms that allow us to pursue interests, hobbies, courses of study, careers. We can marry pretty much whoever we want, have children if we decide to, and we don't have to answer to anyone about any of it- till it hurts someone else.

Occasionally, we get nutbags who decide that setting off a bomb, or shooting up a place, is a good idea. It's terrible when it happens, but it's a price we pay- and not the only one- for living in these open, free societies.

So yes- it's incredibly easy to pull off something like this- all you have to do is be quiet about it beforehand. Considering the number of gun owners on this forum alone, any one of the people on here could have done this, if they were of a mind- however sick- to do so.

My prayers go out to the victims and their families.

silentpoet wrote:
My first two warning shots are aimed center of mass. If that don't warn them I fire warning shots at their head until they are warned enough that I am no longer in fear for my life.

Jeriah wrote:I am getting confused on one point: did the lone gunman ALSO set off the car bomb? Is there any evidence of an accomplice? Or, and this is really weird, but could it just be a coincidence? Like some guy happens to go nuts on the same day as there is a terrorist attack? I'm not trying to drive speculation, I'm asking a simple question: to what extent has the shooting been linked to the car bombing?

The bomb in Oslo exploded at 1526 local time, the shootings started about 2 hours later about 50 km away from Oslo along a highway. Plenty of time to drive. Someone fitting the description of him was seen at the bomb site before the explosion.

My deepest sympathy to the families of the victims. I'm aware this is a phrase without all too much meaning, but I honnestly don't know what to say to them.

When I went to bed yesterday, I didn't expect the news that would unfold over night. Thought this would not extend past the scale of you avarage ETA car bomb in Spain, or school killing spree in Germany. As sad as that may be, the death of one or two dozen people at the hands of a /&§)# somwhere in Europe is hardly anything special these days. The feelings deaden, people go blunt. Yesterday night, was was really rather "meh, whatever" about the whole situation. A dozen or so deaths, some of them kids, didn't really bother me emotionally, depressive as this sounds. And then I open the morning paper during breakfast, and nearly fall from the chair. Man, this thing is bigger than most expected.

Also, to certain people right here: Before you plan vigorous revenge involving the violent death of someone never put on trial, please take a deep breath, go back to page 3 of this thread and read Jeriah's first post. Please, I urge you. We can do better than that. In fact, we have to.
And yes, you can consider this a political comment if you want to.

This is an attack on the Norwegian democracy, by someone who's stated that he was afraid we would loose our freedoms. That does not compute, so I believe he was a deranged lunatic "getting back". As such he's in the category of Timothy Veigh. He bought a farm 2 years ago, and had bought a lot of you-know-what. He might have planned this for a while.
There's also rumors about a second shooter, who knows.
I'm at work now, so I cannot watch the news a lot, but I get a few glimses, as it's almost the only thing they talk about on every channel.