How can we move the measuring boat forward to attract a much wider audience? And where are the lady measurers? Why is this almost exclusively an old boy occupation? Just wondering.

Bob

It is also a curious question about men versus women in the group. There is limited participation or posting even in the non-measurement forums. I am not sure what we could do to spur participation by the female contingent. On the NTS Facebook page the ratio is 56% Men, 36% Women and 6% Other (maybe groups or other pages.) We certainly do not have nearly that high of a percentage of women posting to the BBS.

Ed

"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

You bring up a topic that has puzzled me for a long time - female participation. We value our female members enormously, and encourage them to post. I'm unsure why their BBS participation in terms of posts doesn't match their percentage of membership. Maybe some of our valued female members will cast light on the subject. What have we been doing wrong? ENTS is absolutely not an old boy's club. But maybe it appears that way. If so, what do we need to do to reverse the appearance?

Bob

Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

The reason for lack of women on ENTS maybe because it's not their cup of tea. Men hunt, hike, fish, explore more than women do and it has been that way forever. Our ancestors had to survive in the wilderness and struggled to do so. Only the strong survived back in the old days. Women bore us and rasied our offspring, which kept them real busy. I've brought my Mom,girlfriend, cousins and daughter to big trees many times. I've also taken them into Forests. They enjoy them but not like I do. I'm not saying it's because I'm male, maybe I'm wrong but most women enjoy nature but just don't get out into it like men do. One more note some of the younger generation doesn't seen to think of trees like the older. They seem to have forgotten our natural heritage. This is just one point of view to think on, I hope I did not upset anyone by giving my thought on this topic. Larry

Pursuing the female Ent discussion, over the decades, women have been some of our top conservationists. They are often sensitive to the beauty and importance of an area when all the men want to do is go after its natural resources. Maybe what it comes down to is that women are more into the qualitative aspects and less so in the quantitative. From a public perspective, people like John Muir were the ones who got the attention, but I keep coming across out-of-the-way places that were recognized and preserved by some small, determined woman, who was only locally known, but prevailed against a lot of opposition.

Bob

Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

Larry,
I don't often have the time to reply to posts (I am a graduate student in forestry/forest ecology), but I do read them. I was surprised to see your post that women just don't get into nature the way men do. I respectfully have to disagree. Yes, there are women with no interest in being outside in a forest, just as there are men with a similar lack of interest in the outdoors. I don't think its fair to say that women don't enjoy forests as much as men- even at a general level. Just my thoughts.

To the group generally,
There could be a lot of reasons why women aren't posting to the group as much, perhaps they feel more observational rather than conversational. It is through conversation that we are able to share knowledge and ideas, but it is through observation first that we can have informed conversations. This is just my take on the situation, I am only one woman's voice. I don't think ENTS in an old boys club, and never got that impression, even if men are the primary discussion posters. This may be a reflection of my worldview and upbringing: people are people (I was raised as a person rather than as a girl if that makes sense).

The main reason I don't post more is I am at a stage in my career when I don't have the time to devote to group as actively as other members. I know some very passionate and devoted tree-loving women are out there, just maybe not able to post here on ENTS very often.

What can we do to encourage a greater participation by members who are women, and what can we do to encourage more women to join the organization? As the numbers on Facebook show, there are many women who are interested enough in trees to join the NTS Facebook page. There is certainly a place in the BBS Forums for people to post more observational or descriptive content relating to trees and forests. I enjoy these posts, as well as the more philosophical essays and artistic explorations.

Ed Frank

"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

I believe that in general women are less interested in posting on BBS forums online no matter what the focus of interest. This is true in the tree climbing BBS forums, the ratio of male to female forum participants is heavily skewed to the male side of the climbing community even though there are many female tree climbers out there. Note that facebook in general has much higher active female participation. I suspect that facebook creates a safer feeling online environment since members can control who are their "friends" and who can see their posts. It's arguable whether or not facebook actually is a a safer online environment but there are enough ways for users to control privacy etc that it feels that way. The BBS environment is a relatively simple interactive format, kind of like speaking to an empty room, or maybe a full room, sometimes it's difficult to know. Using the facebook model again as an example, it does a better job providing a range of feedback cues that makes the participant feel like they are actively participating in a conversation with people they are connected to rather than speaking to a group of mostly unknown (to the poster) individuals.

I'm not a big fan of pointing out behavior differences between genders, any generalized statement is going to be wrong for many individuals. There are behavior averages per gender then there is reality: there is huge variation across individuals of either gender. That said it's clear to me that males are more comfortable in the BBS forum format.
-AJ

I'd like to think women are interested in trees just as much as men are. When primitive humans lived in the woods, the women were right there alongside the men. Maybe as gender roles become increasingly less distinct, females will be in the woods just as much as their male counterparts. Maybe we could contact the Sociology BBS for an answer...?!

AndrewJoslin wrote:I believe that in general women are less interested in posting on BBS forums online no matter what the focus of interest. This is true in the tree climbing BBS forums, the ratio of male to female forum participants is heavily skewed to the male side of the climbing community even though there are many female tree climbers out there. Note that facebook in general has much higher active female participation. I suspect that facebook creates a safer feeling online environment since members can control who are their "friends" and who can see their posts. It's arguable whether or not facebook actually is a a safer online environment but there are enough ways for users to control privacy etc that it feels that way. The BBS environment is a relatively simple interactive format, kind of like speaking to an empty room, or maybe a full room, sometimes it's difficult to know. Using the facebook model again as an example, it does a better job providing a range of feedback cues that makes the participant feel like they are actively participating in a conversation with people they are connected to rather than speaking to a group of mostly unknown (to the poster) individuals.

I'm not a big fan of pointing out behavior differences between genders, any generalized statement is going to be wrong for many individuals. There are behavior averages per gender then there is reality: there is huge variation across individuals of either gender. That said it's clear to me that males are more comfortable in the BBS forum format.
-AJ

But BBS can be anonymous while Facebook is not and it's more google+ that allows you to easier control who sees what.
But it is true that FB does seem to have more female posting than BBS for almost anything.