I'll be tinkering with this over the next few days...weeks..hopefully not months/years so the order may change. Would be very interested in other ideas, after all it is a Forum. Have tried to stick to the rule that Joe is always right, so any new ideas mustn't contradict with him. Iam hoping these ideas won't just work with the books but the new RPG system too!

Last edited by SnowShadow on Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Every cloud has a silver, er Korlinium lining. Okay so there have been some printing issues and some copies have omitted Starting Equipment so it makes sense to have it all in one place. I also thought it would be a good idea to have price lists for equipment that you could use anytime you enter civilisation or between adventures. This with new items and new house rules for Kai Disciplines should make it possible for anyone to complete the books, no matter what thier initial Combat Skill & Endurance Points.

{Personally I'd say you can take any Special Items but a Grand Master, needing to be flexible, cannot take any Armour from the Ranger/Knight equipment list except Magnakai quality. It isn't that they can't wear it, they just don't get the bonus so it could still be a disguise, etc.}

+1 extra = Regular event. Something practically guarenteed several times an adventure - Worldwide or Co-inhabitants (On Magnamund or Airbreathers)
+2 extra = Comman event. Something which will usually occur during an adventure - Empire or Race (Lastlands or Humans)
+3 extra = Uncomman event. Something which will occur at least once every few adventures - Kingdom or Culture (Sommerlund or Wizards)
+4 extra = Rare event. Something which will occur few times in a 'series' of adventures (Bks 1-5, 6-12, 13-20 or 21+) - Province or Sect (Fryelund or Brotherhood Wizards)
+5 extra= Unique event. Something which occurs few times in a lifetime of adventures (all the books) - Site or Individual (Kai Monastery or Vonotar)

Last edited by SnowShadow on Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:41 am, edited 4 times in total.

Alternative Kai Name Generator
Pick 2 <Random Numbers>. These two numbers dictate the Prefix and Suffix list which the name eventually shall come from, e.g. you pick a 5 and 2 which is shown as 5/2 Ph/Aq, this means your Prefix is from the Physical (Ph) list and the Suffix comes from the Aquatic (Aq) List; where you need to pick a <Random Number> again for both Prefix and Suffix and compare it to the corresponding list. Sometimes two options are given, seperated by an oblique "/". Either select the most appropriate or if you want it totally random pick another <Random Number> Odd = before "/", Even = after "/". It might seem complicated but certain words just work better together than others, that said feel free to reverse the name, add "'s" or select your own. Have a play, maybe you can come up with a better method. I have put an example at the end.

Example. Joe picks two <Random Numbers>, 6 & 4: 6/4 Ra/He. The Prefix comes from the RANGER (Ra) list, the Suffix comes from the HERALDRY (He) list. Joe picks a 9, looking under RANGER this makes his Prefix 'Silent/Lone'. Then Joe picks a 0, looking under HERALDRY this makes his Suffix 'Wolf'. So his Kai name is Silent/Lone Wolf - he'll need to decide which Prefix to keep..

Last edited by SnowShadow on Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Not so Random Kai - alternative set up for an average Joe (!) Based on averages it will ensure you can earn your maximum CS/EP, the downside is you will not be as strong to start with.

Gold Crowns - the <Random Number> will always be 5 or you could choose the minimum and have 2 Honour Points or 1 Kai Crystal (any) or 1 Comman Potion (Gallowbrush, Laumspur +4EP or Alether +2CS) instead.

Physical Movement <Random Number> tests & Alether - you can drink a Potion of Alether and claim it's bonus whenever you are required to make a test based on Strength or Physical Movement, e.g. Climbing, Swimming, Jumping, Running, etc.

Kai Lords have CS9 EP19 plus 1CS/EP per Kai Discipline, so...
Book 1 Initiate CS14 EP24
Book 2 Aspirant CS15 EP25
Book 3 Guardian CS16 EP26
Book 4 Warmarn CS17 EP 27
Book 5 Savant CS18 EP28
At the end of Book 5 gain your final Kai Discipline for +1CS/+1EP.
All Kai Masters have Healing +1 EP per section without combat (heal 10EP per adventure maximum), Mindblast +2CS, Weaponskill +2CS in... (one random standard melee Weapon).
Book 6-12 Kai Master CS19 EP29 - the initial maximum. Lore Circles +CS/EP as normal - at end of Book 12 Kai Grand Master CS24 EP40.
All Grand Masters have Curing +20EP if reduced to 6EP once every 100 days (replaced by Deliverence when learnt), Healing +1 EP per section without combat (heal 10EP per adventure maximum this way), Mindblast +4CS, Psi-Surge +6CS -1EP each Round (unless 4EP or less)*, Weaponmastery +4CS in ANY Weapon/-0CS Unarmed.
*Psi-Surge Bk21+, assume unnatural & mindless creatures immune to Mindblast are also immune to Psi-Surge.
Lone Wolf discovered, upon becoming a Kai Grand Master, that the once dormant Kai Seed had reached fruition with the completion of the Lore Circles. He was able to give this harvest back to the God Kai, who plants the Kai Seed in future generations of potential Kai Monks. As a reward, all Grand Masters who sacrifice their EP bonus from the Lore Circles (-11EP Permanently) become Grand Master Seniors and age only one year for every four.
Book 13+/21+ New Order Grand Masters CS24 EP29 gain +1CS/EP per Advanced Kai Discipline (i.e. not the Magical Skills) AND one Grand Weaponmastery slot. After all ten Advanced Disciplines learnt, a Grand Master will be CS34 EP39 - the initial maximum - this is in addition to the +1CS +2EP experience bonus for completing adventures, which still applies, and all other bonuses. Note it is possible to begin book 21 with below minimum initial CS/EP if you pick four Magical Skills.

Bardmanship - By singing a Kai Battle Hymn (Round Zero Passive Action) you can make a Crystal Weapon act as a Magic Weapon.

Grand Weaponmastery slots: Instead of two slots, have one slot per Advanced Kai Discipline; when all the slots are filled the Grand Master has +5CS with ANY Weapon.

A Wizard is someone with half the available Magical Skills: Lone Wolf 1, other Grand Masters 3.
A Sorcerer is someone with all the available Magical Skills: Lone Wolf 2, other Grand Masters 6.
It is far easier for Lone Wolf to be considered a Wizard/Sorcerer but that is because he has personally absorbed all seven Lorestones and had expert tutelage from Banedon and Rimoah. Wizards/Sorcerers will be able to gain advantages with New Equipment.

Last edited by SnowShadow on Thu May 20, 2010 12:09 pm, edited 16 times in total.

Selling
Deduct 1 Gold Crown for every 6 Gold Crowns value from the buying price.
Bardmanship <Random Number> Odd as above, Even item sells for full value.
Items worth less than one Gold Crown are sold as two for one Gold Crown, etc.

Valuing. Some very rough averages.
1 Weapon/1 Special Item = 2 Backpack Items = 6 Gold Crowns. Backpack Item = 3GC
Normal Special Item = 6GC
Decorative Special Item = 12GC
Precious Metal Special Item = 24GC
Gems/Jewellery Special Item = 36GC
N.B. Some items like a Jewelled Mace are worth thousands to the right buyer but Kai are monks not merchants and the usual rules of commerce do not always apply.
Remember if you are selling knock off 1GC/6GC value, etc.

Meals
Meal 1GC Lasts for current adventure then must be discarded.
Specal Rations 2GC A preserved Meal, may be carried onto next adventure.
Meal +2EP 4GC (3GC) e.g. Gnallia, lasts for current adventure then must be discarded.
Meal +3EP 5GC (4GC) e.g. Laumspur Leaf, lasts for current adventure then must be discarded.

Allies (RPG):(You/PC's)
Pick the best applicable description to the current situation. Pick a random no. Odd use result before the oblique, even after. (Odd/Even):
+0/+1CS Disorganised Rabble/"Oi! Give us a hand!"/"I'm only in it for the money." Standard bonus, no time for any strategy, everyone fighting independently together, unsure of each others reactions to different situations.
+2/+3CS Trickster Comrades/"Just stick to the plan this time. If you fall back here, I'll come in from the side here..."/"Alright I'll do it but you owe me! No, Duadon doesn't count." A few tricks up each others sleeves, work well together, quite confident of the situation, will take a few risks to improve strengths/reduce weaknesses, provides very suitable spell/ability/equipment support.
+4CS/+5CS Bloodbrother Tacticians/"Let us face destiny side by side"/"I owe you my life". Unquestioning confidence in each other, almost instinctive knowledge of optimum tactics for any situation, risk life to maximise strengths/minimise weaknesss of fellows, provides perfect spell/ability/equipment support.
Alternatively when outnumbering a single foe you may inflict/receive +1EP/-1EP if CS bonus would be +2/+3 and inflict/receive double damage/half damage if CS bonus would be +4/+5.
(Foes/NPC's)
As above but each +1CS = +10%CS & +10%EP, added seperately for each ally. In other words if an opponent has CS20 EP30 and the bonus is +20%, if they have three allies it is CS32 EP48 (+4CS+4CS+4CS and +6EP+6EP+6EP) - not CS24 EP36 (+20%CS/EP).

Two Handed Weapons: 'Keep Foes at Bay'; WS/WM/GWM bonus doubled due to reach advantage though neither side able to deliver critical blows - all '1' and '0' results have no effect (E-0EP, Self-0EP). If attempting Awe as well your WS/WM/GWM bonus is tripled for the attempt (attempting Awe and Keeping at Bay add +100% each), but remember 1 or 0 means the attempt fails. Combat can be longer (with 0/1 no effect) this way, allowing time for reinforcements to turn up. Shield bonus can still be claimed.

Disarm: Only possible against Armed foes and may only be achieved successfully once. Must be chosen before the <Random Number> is picked. Calculate damage to yourself as normal. The enemy does not lose any EP; multiply the amount they would have lost by the <Random Number> (0=10), if this is greater than their current CS they are disarmed (-4CS for the rest of the fight). Do not modify the damage, e.g. Sommerswerd's Double Damage vs. Undead, Kai Sun Lord's -1EP extra Flame Weapon, etc. Example Combat Ratio +4, <Random Number> 3: You lose -3EP, Enemy Disarmed if they have CS21 or less (7 [EP] x 3 [Random Number] = 21).

Subdue: The idea of using your weapon to reduce your opponents prowess/Combat Skill rather than just standard fighting. Especially useful when the Combat Ratio is negative. You must decide at the begining of the Combat Round before picking the number if you will attempt to Stun or Neutralize, depending on whether you are appropriately equipped, or handle the Round as normal Combat. You may change tactics each round.Stun Blows dealt to Knock your opponent out. For every 4EP the Enemy would have lost from the Combat Results Table they instead lose -1CS -1EP. Note if the Enemy would lose 3EP or less your attack does no damage. If your foe receives a "K", or their CS is reduced to 0, they have been knocked out. CS lost in this way returns after Combat, EP lost must be healed as normal. You may Stun if you are Unarmed, using any Psychic attack in Psychic Combat {Psychic Stun = Psychic Shock}, using a Shield (even with an Edged Weapon) or armed with a Mace, Warhammer, Quarterstaff or other Non-Edged Weapon. If using the Shield to Subdue an opponent only harmed by Magical Weapons, the Subduer's Weapon must be Magical. Often used in wargames & practise. Neutralize Followers of Ishir and Kai must be careful they do not mutilate their opponent so this is only an option if the Combat Ratio is Negative. Cearmaine's hand was lost by a drakkar's Axe in this fashion. It is the idea of specific vulnerable points being targeted, it is therefore harder to achieve, but more effective, than stun. For every 6EP the enemy would lose they instead lose -2CS -2EP, hence -5EP or less results in no damage to them. "K" or CS0 indicates a messy death. CS lost in this fashion must be healed (2EP = 1CS) but every 10th point of CS lost is Permanent. Requires any Edged Weapon. Should a Kai use Neutralize when the Combat Ratio is 0 or higher they are overcome with guilt after combat and lose access to one Discipline for <Random Number> (0=10) Days; Rank and Lore Circles are unaffected by this loss - the ability is merely unavailable not unlearned.

Reclaiming Ammunition: Frugal warriors can try to reclaim fired ammunition. Pick a second <Random Number> after the initial shot, if this figure is Higher than the first then Arrow or Dart, etc. is reusable - provided you can reach the body to reclaim it! N.B. A Dart needs to be dipped in Gallowbrush to again be a Sleep Dart. So if a Bow test was a '0' - a miss in the text but a clean shot in Round Zero picking any second <Ra.No.> except '0' will mean that the Arrow may be used again. Conversely if the first number was a '9' the Arrow would be irretrievable whatever 2nd number was picked - buried up to the feathers!

"Round Zero": The time period for drinking a potion (e.g. Alether) prior to combat.
Unless there is the element of surprise Joe permits us the use of a few precious seconds before hand to hand combat during which time we can drink a potion. If we have more than one just how many can we drink or can we perform any other actions? Here are some ideas:
A Grand Master may perform two actions in Round Zero without penalty, any more means in Round One they may only parry (i.e. inflict -0EP Enemy).
Anyone else (e.g. Kai Lord/Master) may only perform one action without penalty, any more means they may also only parry in Round One.
No-one may make more than one Offensive Action in Round Zero.
Offensive Actions (Only one of) - Awe, Throw Weapon/Use Bow, Attack Spell.
Passive Action (No limit) - Use a Potion or other Backpack Item/Non-Weaponlike Special Item, Discipline use - Defensive Spell or Kai Splice - lashing an Amulet/Talisman to a Weapon to produce various effects.Awe [Round Zero Offensive Action](Fire on the Water "255")
Requires Weaponskill,Weaponmastery or Grand Weaponmastery & appropriate Weapon.
The idea of a Kai giving such an impressive display it leaves an opponent demoralised.
Opponent must be capable of feeling fear. Does not work on Mindless foes such as doors but does work on intelligent Undead such as Helghast and Vordaks.
Preconditions...
If you only have Weaponskill in the Weapon you must not be outnumbered.
If you have Weaponmastery you may not be outnumbered by more than 2/1.
If you have Weaponmastery/Scion-Kai you may not be outnumbered by more than 3/1.
If you have Grand Weaponmastery you may attempt Awe no matter how many foes.
Don't forget to include allies such as Paido or your mount or aid from a Kai Spirit Crystal.
Calculate the Combat Ratio as normal except double your WS/WM/GWM bonus (just this Round, not the whole fight) - include normal factors such as Armour and Psychic Abilities, these make you more imposing. Then Pick a <Random Number> as if you were conducting a normal combat round (but neither side loses EP). If the result indicates that you would not take any damage but your opponent would, they are Awed!
E.g. Combat Ratio +1 a roll of 8,9 or 0 would make your opponent Awed.
Effects of Awe: For any normal combat round you are involved in with an Awed Foe you may reroll/pick a different <Random Number> if the first roll indicates you would suffer EP loss, however you must abide by the new result even if it is worse. As soon as the Combat Results Table indicates you should lose EP the opponent is no longer considered Awed: "If he bleeds we can kill him". Any Round Zero Offenive Action that would result in you receiving 0EP, whether you take damage or not, makes you Awed by that foe, e.g. Lightning Hand Spell, Thrown Axe.Throw Weapon/Use Bow [Round Zero Offensive Action]
Calculate this as a normal attack including all bonuses except for armour. If throwing a Weapon or Shield, it becomes unavailable for the duration of combat and if you evade is lost. If using a bow all <Random Number> bonuses benefit CS instead, this counts as 'Fire Again' if you used your bow before melee (i.e. no time to reload Crossbow). A Shield may be thrown by anyone who has completed the Lore Circle of Fire (include Shield bonus, a Non-Edged Weapon attack if you attempt Subdue Stun). The following may be thrown:
Axe, Dagger, Discus, Mace, Shield, Short Sword, Spear, Warhammer.Discilpline Use: [Round Zero Passive Action]
Bardmaship, makes a Crystal Weapon Magical by singing a Kai Battle Hymn.
Grand Nexus/Grand Crown, treat as Power Word/Invisible Fist Attack Spell.Attack Spell:[Round Zero Offensive Action]
Invisible Fist/Power Word [MM] Treat as Non-Edged Thrown Weapon attack. -0EP to cast.
Lightning Hand [KA] Treat as an Edged Thrown Weapon attack but compare your current EP (not including Armour) instead of CS for Combat Ratio. -3EP to cast.
Net [KA] Treat as Non-Edged Thrown Weapon Subdue Stun attack but compare your current EP (not including Armour) instead of CS for Combat Ratio. No effect on Doors, Fire-Emitting and Non-Corporeal foes. -0EP to cast.
Hold Enemy [MM GT] Make a Disarm test without weapon/armour modifiers, if successful enemy may only parry for the same number of round as the <Random Number> picked. -0EP to cast.Defensive Spell:[Round Zero Passive Action]
Elementalism Air - Buffeting Winds -1EP Damage received each round -2EP.
Elementalism Earth - Kazim Skin, +2CS. 2EP to cast.
Elementalism Fire - Firebolt, as Kai Battle Crystal. -2EP to cast.
Elementalism Water - Ice Blade, creates a fragile normal Weapon from thin air, destroyed if your enemy inflicts more damage than you. +1EP damage to Fire-emitting enemies. -2EP to cast.
Elementalism - Summon Sprite. An Elemental Ally who will not attack but will retaliate if you are attacked; in Melee every time an enemy wounds you they take -1EP damage, includes foes immune to normal weapons only if you are able to harm them. -1EP to cast.
Invisible Shield [KA]/Shield [MM] Creates a Shield +2CS (suitable for GM). -2EP to cast.
Mend [KA] +5EP or repairs one non magical item, must be cast in water. -0EP to cast.
Vigour [KA] +3CS for one combat, may not be used if EP below 10. -3EP to cast.
Energy Grasp [MM SL] +1EP damage inflicted when fighting Unarmed.
Strength [KA SK] +2CS +2EP when fighting Unarmed, (+3CS +3EP Wizard, +5CS +5EP Sorcerer) -0EP to cast.
Flameshaft [MM KGG] Arrow does +1EP damage (+50% Sorcerer). -0EP to cast.
Penetrate [MM SL] +1CS (+2CS Sorcerer) to one Arrow, may be cast with Flameshaft. -0EP to cast.Kai Splice [Round Zero Passive Action]
Requires Weaponskill AND Sixth Sense. The Kai warrior monks have far greater knowledge in the use of weapons than the average wizard and as such are able to tap mystical energies from magical pendants and use them in an unintended fashion in hand to hand combat. A Kai lashes a magical Amulet, Medallion, Talisman or Pendant to the hilt of their weapon at the begining of combat and is able to produce a wide range of effects depending on the nature of the necklace. This is only possible on unmagical Weapons - it will not work on any Special Item Weapon or one with a Dessi Stone, etc. It may be used on Crystal Weapons including those created by a Kai Weapon Crystal. The weapon is treated as a Magic Weapon for the duration of combat in terms of what foes it may harm (treat as Sommerswerd, etc.) As it is not a proper Magic Weapon, however, a Sun Lord's Flame Weapon ability may still be used upon it. The amulet or talisman is not permanently grafted to the weapon and may be taken off and used normally after combat. Kai must aways spend one passive action each Round Zero to lash & create the effect, even if they did so in a previous combat. Effect:
Crystal Star Pendant - Both a Power/Blue Steel Weapon (+0CS, +2CS Wizard, +5CS Sorcerer) AND a Jewelled Weapon (Mindblast +1CS even on immune foes unless using other psychic attacks).
Blue Stone Triangle - Power/Blue Steel Weapon (+0CS, +2CS Wizard, +5CS Sorcerer).
Black Talisman/Amulet - Dark Weapon (+Skill Potential Bonus -1EP each round).
Andarin Bloodstone, Platinum/Gold Amulet - Arcane Weapon (+Skill Potential Bonus).
Jewelled Medallion (Onyx, Emerald, Jadin Amulet, etc.) - Jewelled Weapon (Mindblast +1CS even on immune foes unless using other psychic attacks).
Redeemer's Amulet/Talisman of Ishir - Holy Weapon (+0CS, -1EP damage received each round).

Last edited by SnowShadow on Wed May 19, 2010 12:49 pm, edited 21 times in total.

Finally I've got some ideas for new equipment - Kai Crystals with other effects, e.g. Lore gives one extra Discipline for one paragraph. Other items include Cynx Vest - like Nyxator's Hide Waistcoat and Darkling Shadowpouch for summoning items out of thin air, but not for free.

Thanks - still working on it...! Redoing equipment based on purchase by Honour Points and I'll put in a few tricks and tips to help some of the hard parts. I.e. Helghast Bk1, Altan, Kimah, Chaos Master, Ixiataaga, etc. Will explain 7 Kai Crystals too. You will be able to 'buy' Kalte Firespheres, Skarn Ska (dual wield with Kai Weapon), Power Rings, Blue Steel Armour (GM), etc. or be rewarded for donating equipment back. Trying to do it so that it will be easy for anyone to work out what their cool new item they just made up would cost and how everyone else could 'pay' a reasonable price to get hold of it.

For example the Crystal Star Pendant is both a Lucky Charm (once per adventure reroll any UNMODIFIABLE Random Number - e.g. Green Sceptre avoiding mast Bk 2 or President Toltuda's Decision Bk 9, Balista Escaping Kaag on a Zlanbeast Bk 14, i.e. not any Combat because of Skills & Weapons bonuses or Climbing beacause Primate Huntmastery or Rope gives a bonus) AND holds one Spell (in Bk 1 Sense Evil) which can be cast for free by anyone but requires a Wizard's Aid (see Honour when it is done) to put another one in.

It does not work on the Bridge at the end of Bk13 but don't worry - your Kai Cloak Brooch (New Special Item) can help with that Random Number..

RatedRWolf wrote:I just cannot understand the differences between original and Mongoose Equipment of the various books, can anyone help me?

Anyway, the alternative rules are quite intriguing, I'll try and use them next time I read the books.

Sorry for the delay only just saw this. Still working on rule variations, had a dozen revisions so far! I kid you not.

Most books there are no differences: I put the list up because some of the Collecter's Editions omitted the starting equipment, like Shadow on the Sand. I also added easily forgettable Special Items you begin with like Seal of Hammerdal (it is worth noting you have it because you can lose it). The original Flight from the Dark made you record the Map of Sommerlund under Special Items but that was before item limits, etc. and later books always say you begin with a Map of X tucked in your tunic or whatever - it isn't important to record that.

As far as I can tell there is only one difference between Mongoose and the original books' starting equipment and that is that Book 10 the Dungeons of Torgar now allows you to begin with a VERY handy Potion of Alether +2CS (especially if you use it against the Chaos Master book 11!).