On the surface it looks like Editshare is a little crazy to have taken over the Lightworks brand which they continue to very actively developed. The Linux version was on display at the NAB show and while the Mac version has been delayed it’s still on track and under development. I mentioned repeatedly to the Editshare guys that once a Mac version is ready we will see a lot more interest but they said they’ve seen over 250,000 downloads of the current Windows version. I think they are quite proud of that download number and Lightworks looks to be a pretty big part of the overall Editshare strategy going into the future. I’m not exactly sure what that strategy is but apparently someone at Editshare does since Lightworks lives on.

[Chris Kenny]"It's free. As such, the download number is probably more representative of the level of casual interest than the level of serious use."

Was I dreaming or was it you talking about the future of editing belonging to whoever could capture the kids downloading cheap software to work on their skateboard videos. I guess these 250000 casual users
don't count.

[Herb Sevush]"Was I dreaming or was it you talking about the future of editing belonging to whoever could capture the kids downloading cheap software to work on their skateboard videos. I guess these 250000 casual users don't count."

[Chris Kenny] "It's free. As such, the download number is probably more representative of the level of casual interest than the level of serious use."

I am one of those casually interested people that are amongst the 250,000. I also have a casual interest in FCPX but haven't downloaded the trial yet as there is too much work required to partition a drive and install a different OS on a working FCS3 machine.

I am building a WIN screamer at the moment to run da Vinci and that machine will have Lightworks on it. I know plenty of people who have downloaded FCPX but are not seriously using it. Ignoring both FCPX and Lightworks would be silly.

I make my living by having stable systems that work. FCPX cannot be used as a finishing tool in my area of broadcast doco so why would I risk my mothballed EOL version of FCS3 with SL?

If and when FCPX is needed in my workflow, I will partition and install the approriate OS. The justification might be Smoke and then I will get FCPX as an ancilliary software in case people actually bring me an FCPX project rather than an XML.

Not trying to bust anybody's chops or anything, because believe it or not, I too have been making a good living using the various FCP variants for the better part of the last decade. I've found FCP7 (FCS3) and FCP X to run without issue on both Snow Leopard and Lion while coexisting on the same boot drive. Granted, I've always had backups that I could go to (and haven't needed to BTW), but that's just common sense. Maybe I'm just lucky or I spend a good amount of time maintaining my various systems.

I just I didn't understand why you are sure that if you load FCP X onto your system, suddenly FCS3 becomes unusable? Certainly there can be instances where caution is the better of valor, especially with brand new software, but FCP X is in its 4th revision now. All of my 3rd party stuff (BM Multibridge Extreme, 4 Sonnett RAIDS, Euphonix controllers, etc.) still work with 7; and they work to whatever extent they can with FCP X.

There are just a lot of cool things that X does that really make 7 look dated. Just saying you might wanna try it.

Its a simple matter Mike that FCPX has no place in my broadcast finalising workflow. I run a Kona3 card and there are driver differences between FCS3 and FCPX so I could have FCPX but without broadcast monitoring. Tits on a bull. I grade in Color and play out finished program to HDCam & digibeta so FCS3 is my tool of choice and FCPX is not suitable. Lightworks is also not a replacement contender for FCS3 either but I can play with it on a WIN machine.

I know FCS3 can work with Lion and that if you take precautions with the install you won't break Motion/ Compressor in FCS3. All the best advice for years has been to do clean installs when you change OS. I have a really stable install on SL so there is no motivation to change OS for a system that must run Legacy software until I can upgrade to a finishing system like Smoke, CS6 or both. Then it will be a simple matter of partitioning and installing the appropriate OS. At that point FCPX may or may not be installed depending on demand.

Pressure to keep up will require updating OS. One day FCS3 will break in Lion or Mountain Lion and it won't be fixed. This is the time old Apple way. It comes down to personal preferences and I have a lot to lose and zero to gain by installing FCPX at the moment.

From your original post it seemed that you thought there was some death-lock that X would put on 7. That was my response. Hey, I totally get that FCP X won't cut it for broadcast, especially if it breaks 3rd party stuff like it would for you. I'd never try to do the stuff I've done for Discovery on FCP X. Can't be done as easily as with 7 - would be a MAJOR pain in the as trying. And as you alluded - time is money.

Just thought it might be worth a $100 drive to poke around and realize that there could be something to gain having FCP X around. It has the one of the best/easiest keyers I've ever used, does work with Resolve (though I do prefer Color as well), and you can digitize/print to tape via the BM software. (I guess not having my Blackmagic stuff break didn't put me right off it.) Sound mixing is the next big thing they need to address. X is amazing for web content/file based delivery without BM, though.

And yes, I still love 7, but I have come to realize that when X is ready, it really will blow 7 away with its ease and speed.

Ok, so I'm running LION, FCP X Trial, FCP 7, Resolve, Premiere, and BlackMagic Intensity Extreme. No problems between any of these apps. The Lion was a clean install. There are no problems with Lion unless you've got some rosetta needing app.

The trial version of X is less problematic than the regular version of X simply because of the name. It has trial at the end. There's no confusion. When you aren't running the trial you have to put the older FCS3 apps in a folder from what I understand. I also understand you could easily break roundtripping to Motion if you have both versions of Motion installed. But FC7 has a preference panel where you set up which app opens which file type. It can be dealt with I'm sure.

Anyway, don't fear the trial at least. The trial doesn't really do much from what I can tell but at the prefs, a couple project and event folders, and the trial app.

FCS is EOL. I'm not saying FCX is the answer. It isn't. But the BlackMagic monitoring works. You can capture and output with their logging software. You can grade with DaVinci with a real roundtripping experience (from X or 7).

[Michael Gissing]"One day FCS3 will break in Lion or Mountain Lion and it won't be fixed. This is the time old Apple way. It comes down to personal preferences and I have a lot to lose and zero to gain by installing FCPX at the moment."

I just lost Motion on one of my Lion machines in a way I can't yet explain. Hopefully it will reinstall when I have a chance to do so.

which is a good thing. Over the past year, I have had exactly two encounters with FCX. One TV commercial which was a multi-layered green screen that worked out fine - unpacked nicely in Resolve (which is all I cared about). The other instance I actually coached a former iMovie user through using the application to make some nicer slide shows to showcase his original music. He didn't like iMovie because it wasn't sophisticated enough, but he wasn't all that excited about FCX, either, because it was way too complex for his purposes.... but it was cheap and did have better audio editing.

But locally anyway, my market was previously an AVID stronghold, and although that camp has made strides, most locals, having switched to Final Cut Studio, are loathe make another leap of faith to anything. The sentiment expressed most often is the sense of moving backwards and everything seems to be getting monstrously complicated again. I interpret that as referring to ambiguity in product placement, capricious and arbitrary operational changes and of course the total format/codec chaos that has erupted over the last couple of years. At the end of the day, many are choosing not to choose.

Lightworks is in a strange place at the moment. I love it's interface. It's alien but just feels custom built for cutting features. The problem is it is totally alien so it's does take a lot of learning and who can committ the time to learning a program that you can't yet use on serious work?

No doubt it's up to serious work but you'd be silly to trust such work to a beta.

Once the full version is released- in a week or two I believe- I think this is going to be a very interesting alternative to anyone cutting narrative.

[Dominic Deacon]"Lightworks is in a strange place at the moment. I love it's interface. It's alien but just feels custom built for cutting features. The problem is it is totally alien so it's does take a lot of learning and who can committ the time to learning a program that you can't yet use on serious work?"

My problem is that I haven't been able to import any footage in Lightworks without it crashing. So.. That's that.

Actually we have no numbers on how many downloads (paid or otherwise) there have been of FCPX. One estimate a few weeks back put the upper limit around the same number (250K).

The yearly subscription is $60.00 - I suppose that might be a problem for some. It's unclear what features this adds, but I think it's only added codecs."
Well that is easy to figure out it is the 2nd grossing App on the App Store that is one and it has been quoted There are now more Final Cut Pro X installs than Final Cut Pro 7 installs.http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2012/04/some-final-cut-pro-x-data-points/
A little research could give some light to this...

Yeah you get some licensed codecs but having LightWorks without the what $3000 Console is not worth it...

[Thomas Frank]"Well that is easy to figure out it is the 2nd grossing App on the App Store that is one and it has been quoted There are now more Final Cut Pro X installs than Final Cut Pro 7 installs."

Thomas,

If you've been following the threads here you'll realize it isn't easy to figure out. How many FCP7 installs are there? We don't know. A couple years back Apple had announced 2 million installs on FCP but those include all versions and possibly Xpress too.

If you can calculate a real number or have other info please post.

[Thomas Frank]"LightWorks without the what $3000 Console is not worth it..."

That's a pretty provocative statement; why do you make this claim? It's just a customized interface is it not?

No not saying that but in our case we would need the paid version.... codecs... the main reason was EditShare and looking at the LightWorks which is cool I really dig the project sharing in real time!
That is innovation, but as live is it went to a totally different rout.
Still waiting for the Mac version! :)

from the link:But we encourage you to upgrade to the Pro version for $60/€50/£40 per year. You’ll get the codecs you need to work with all common camcorder and DSLRs, the Lightworks real-time title tool, and Network Project Sharing.

The 3000.00 controller hardware is quite separate from that.

from the orig post article:Lightworks has always been known for its hardware controller and that current controller is still around. It’s a sturdy, well-made machine with a jog shuttle lever, a scroll wheel and a bunch of button for Mark IN and OUT tasks as well as edit tasks. If you go Lightworks the edit controller doesn’t come cheap as it’s priced at around $3000. They are precision hardware made in small quantities.

I am aware of this, but not sure how this changes that he console kick a$$?
The interface is new feels very linux like has some awesome features that A's don't have but still decision where made.
At this moment they where good decision. But when the Mac version comes will pop in the shop and see how it really works in a real live situation. The Demo at the NAB was cool and the EditShare guys are some of nicest people I have meat in this market.

Yes, that's kind of what I thought. I used to work with Lightworks and that controller many years ago and given what I'm used to now I'd much rather use a conventional keyboard. It was very popular with hardcore Shark users way back when and that's probably why they are making it available now. But it's $3000 I definitely don't need to spend. More than willing to kick in the 60 bucks a year though.

It's hard for me to take Lightworks seriously as a pro NLE when the name of the company behind it doesn't even start with an "A"... ;)

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"THAT'S our fail-safe point. Up until here, we still have enough track to stop the locomotive before it plunges into the ravine... But after this windmill it's the future or bust."