AGAI 67 or Old School

252 Action

Agai 67

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Swinger

We used to have a problem in the Regt with "gobby" nigs and the downright lazy generation that is 75 % of todays recruits who know their rights etc etc

I know this will attract the "you have to move with the times" bde but just curious. I was always dealt with by a slap round the head etc etc is the old way the best or should we indeed move with the times?

LE

War Hero

If you use the AGAI 67 system to it's fullest potential it helps with the 252 aspect as you can plonk a massive sheaf of evidence in front of the old man when the gobby little scrote eventually taps the boards...... (As they all do in the end.) Its a graet tool for the JNCOs out there and worth the time and effort it takes to do - I say that cos all I ever do is read it and settle any appeals then give the folder to the rasser every month.

But, as an old-skool afficionado, I say smack the little hoods and be done with it - robust environments need robust people..........

When they kick at your front door,
How you gonna come?
With your hands on your head, or on the trigger of your gun
When the law breaks in,
How you gonna go?
Shot down on the pavement, or waiting on death-row?

War Hero

The problem with smacking people was that it was open to abuse by bullies and not always fair.

Whilst I was brought up in that era I don't look back fondly on some of the stuff that went on.

AGAI action works if you use it properly, it is fair and above board and as Batsimm states, is lovely for providing evidence for your 252 action later for those who do not learn.

And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by from this day until the ending of the world but we in it shall be remembered. We few, we happy few, we band of brothers, For he today who sheds his blood with me shall be my brother, Be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition, and gentlemen in England now abed shall think themselves acursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks, that fought with us upon St. Crispin's day!

Try painting out the markings on a couple of pallets of ammo containers, then when the feckers have finished and the paint has dried, get them to open the containers that have now been painted shut, then sand it down so the the containers can be used.

This doesn't have to be deemed as a punishment, just a shite job that needs doing. The hierarchy can't touch you for it.

You may not believe in God or a God, but trust me, when you’re really in the shit you will pray to everyone.

Try painting out the markings on a couple of pallets of ammo containers, then when the feckers have finished and the paint has dried, get them to open the containers that have now been painted shut, then sand it down so the the containers can be used.

This doesn't have to be deemed as a punishment, just a shite job that needs doing. The hierarchy can't touch you for it.

I shit you not with this story I agaied someone and had the family office on the phone saying that because she was a single mother and there was no-one to look after the kid she couldn't do extra work, (along with duties, exercises etc but thats another story). I don't know where you are based but lawyers4u have nothing on Abingdon. The amount of complaints because someone has been caught out is unreal.

I've only ever been wrong once and thats when I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Jimmy Carr: 99% of women kiss with their eyes closed... which is why rapists are so hard to identify

DCI Gene Hunt: Do you know what? I once hit a bloke for speaking French

LE

Bollox. Who looks after the kid while she is at work? She just have to make the necessary arrangements. The award does not have to start immediately so this gives her time to make such arrangements.

If the families office continue to interfere then speak to your Sgt Maj or even the badge. There is no shame in asking for help in dealing with a discipline problem, especially if you do your best to instill that discipline and obstacles are thrown in your way.

You may not believe in God or a God, but trust me, when you’re really in the shit you will pray to everyone.

LE

Bollox. Who looks after the kid while she is at work? She just have to make the necessary arrangements. The award does not have to start immediately so this gives her time to make such arrangements.

If the families office continue to interfere then speak to your Sgt Maj or even the badge. There is no shame in asking for help in dealing with a discipline problem, especially if you do your best to instill that discipline and obstacles are thrown in your way.

Yep thats my sentiment and my Q mans and my SSM unfortunly they get sat upon from above, and I'd like to point out she was not the only one blagging. By the time you got through all the sexist/racist/bullying/prejudice shit you have forgoten what you have Agai them for.
Lets be honest its easier for Gordon Brown to tell the truth than for a determined tosser to get whats coming to him.
On a happier note she did eventully do her work parades but it was far from simple to do.

I've only ever been wrong once and thats when I thought I was wrong but I was mistaken.

Jimmy Carr: 99% of women kiss with their eyes closed... which is why rapists are so hard to identify

DCI Gene Hunt: Do you know what? I once hit a bloke for speaking French

Swinger

This unfortunately seems to be the status quo, I was an Instructor in Deecut when AGAI 67 first came in and remember sitting on briefing after briefing about how the system empowers JNCO's in the discipline chain.

Since moving to a working unit again, I see all too often, JNCO's being ear marked as tossers for handing out AGAI action. fair enough some of the newer JNCO's do use AGAI as a "bullying" tool, handing them out like smarties for the slightest misdemeanour that could have been handled differently, this is down to the SNCO to maybe grip them and hand out job's beneficial to the good and benefit od the troop, but the biggest stumbling block seems to be from above. SSM's that quash or reduce punishment in genuine cases.

As I was leaving my last troop I collected enough evidence to put one certain (female) problem child on a 3 month warning with a view to Admin Discharge under AGAI 67. I have since found oout that she is now on her 4th 3 month bender. The idea is that the 3 month formal warning is the last chance saloon. cock up on that one and your out! so why then are the hierarchy so scared to follow this particular case to its conclusion of discharge?

I still believe that in particular cases, old school is a sound method of discipline (especially in the field) but SNCO's should be educating younger JNCO's in what AGAI is capable of and to have the moral courage to follow it through to the end

LE

If AGAI 67 is used correctly, by all concerned, it is a robust and fair system.

If JNCOs are handing out AGAI action like candy, then a SNCO needs to get 'em in and find out why. Are they power mad, or is their a little scrote that needs a bit more love and attention from a SNCO?

The JNCOs are the lads that should be handling most of teh day to day stuff. With SNCOs stepping in for the scrotes or supervising the nif naf and trivia.

As for the doris who can't look after her kid and work.... Just keep giving her good quality AGAIs. IF she doesn't do the work or punishment, then write it down on her AGAI record. It's still a record of her misdemeaners. 3 month benders not require any time away from junior, do they? And a discharge would give her so much time with baby.

I like the ammo box idea. But isn't works parades covered by AGAI action also?

LE

We do need a system that is scrupulously fair and above reproach. The smack around the ear worked when it was fairly applied and not done with malice. Sadly it was open to abuse, was abused and became useless.

The AGAI system works but only if applied properly. We are not a charity that can carry an endless amount of "Admin Passengers". Service personnel at all levels must add value to their unit or role.

Whilst there must still be leeway that allows us, for instance, to retain personnel who are not necessarily fully fit - can still provide excellent value (ie. some limbless or wounded personnel).

The whole Discipline system relies on honest and fair application of the rules across the board, if a service person is of no value - to quote an old friend "Off you go!"
Bottom line is that wasters must still be dealt with and encouraged to improve, but endless warnings have to result in an unhappy ending!

Old-Salt

I would never support bullying. But as the receiver of a few well timed and well deserved kicks *********** when a young billy, I can say with confidence that they taught me far more than some OC waving sheets of paper at me and saying don't be a naughty squirrel!

Try painting out the markings on a couple of pallets of ammo containers, then when the feckers have finished and the paint has dried, get them to open the containers that have now been painted shut, then sand it down so the the containers can be used.

This doesn't have to be deemed as a punishment, just a shite job that needs doing. The hierarchy can't touch you for it.

I shit you not with this story I agaied someone and had the family office on the phone saying that because she was a single mother and there was no-one to look after the kid she couldn't do extra work, (along with duties, exercises etc but thats another story). I don't know where you are based but lawyers4u have nothing on Abingdon. The amount of complaints because someone has been caught out is unreal.

Tis is da prorblem wen ya recruit benfit leeching chav tarts and keep em in da Army.
Where is husband, partner, father of baby? Does he not have to provide for childcare? Sounds like slag wants to draw Army wage, live in Army house but give nothing back. Only difference between her and Torquay jailbaiter is prob the age.
Teenage_sex

I'd crawl over fifteen miles of redhot broken glass to smell the exhaust fumes of the laundry van that took her knickers away.

LE

Still the discussions on here about discipline/punishment or lack thereof and recruit training did spring to mind when that tree hugger delivered his report about how the army lies to get recruits to join up and how the training etc is not what "real" army life is like.

I thought at the time "To right, basic training was much much harder than being in the field army". Seems as if it has gone to far the other way now.