GJ, it's great to see you focused on 1944 and in a position to have that luxury. Remember when you felt like things were spinning out of control so that your entire position was imperiled in mid '43? You've done great.

Brad is the kind of play that, if he sees a strong out crust, my elect to go deep at some point. If he does so, you'll be in a position of having many units forward threatened with isolation. That's just part of the game and something that many IJ players have to deal with. So, even as you work on your strong defensive positions, give some thought to how you would work to extricate important unit if Brad succeeds in such a move.

Thanks Dan! Always nice to see u around here :-)

Yes, i know, that's why i'm trying to think about my deep defences. Mariannas, mindanao and Thailand are the most risky places imho. Especially Thailand as far as i think. If i was him i'd go for thailand in order to make the whole japanese northwestern front crumble. It's not easy thou, cause you get just so many units and there are never enough of them to cover everything. It's a matter of balance anyway... I need to mantain my balance in my defences, both deep and at the very front.

GJ, it's great to see you focused on 1944 and in a position to have that luxury. Remember when you felt like things were spinning out of control so that your entire position was imperiled in mid '43? You've done great.

Brad is the kind of play that, if he sees a strong out crust, my elect to go deep at some point. If he does so, you'll be in a position of having many units forward threatened with isolation. That's just part of the game and something that many IJ players have to deal with. So, even as you work on your strong defensive positions, give some thought to how you would work to extricate important unit if Brad succeeds in such a move.

Thanks Dan! Always nice to see u around here :-)

Yes, i know, that's why i'm trying to think about my deep defences. Mariannas, mindanao and Thailand are the most risky places imho. Especially Thailand as far as i think. If i was him i'd go for thailand in order to make the whole japanese northwestern front crumble. It's not easy thou, cause you get just so many units and there are never enough of them to cover everything. It's a matter of balance anyway... I need to mantain my balance in my defences, both deep and at the very front.

And the tricky part - creating and shipping enough supplies/devices to keep all those units functioning! You have been walking the tightrope on the economy for a while now, mainly focussed on aircraft from your comments. Are supplies and oil still a headache for you? Any concerns about his sub campaign?

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I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

GJ, it's great to see you focused on 1944 and in a position to have that luxury. Remember when you felt like things were spinning out of control so that your entire position was imperiled in mid '43? You've done great.

Brad is the kind of play that, if he sees a strong out crust, my elect to go deep at some point. If he does so, you'll be in a position of having many units forward threatened with isolation. That's just part of the game and something that many IJ players have to deal with. So, even as you work on your strong defensive positions, give some thought to how you would work to extricate important unit if Brad succeeds in such a move.

Thanks Dan! Always nice to see u around here :-)

Yes, i know, that's why i'm trying to think about my deep defences. Mariannas, mindanao and Thailand are the most risky places imho. Especially Thailand as far as i think. If i was him i'd go for thailand in order to make the whole japanese northwestern front crumble. It's not easy thou, cause you get just so many units and there are never enough of them to cover everything. It's a matter of balance anyway... I need to mantain my balance in my defences, both deep and at the very front.

And the tricky part - creating and shipping enough supplies/devices to keep all those units functioning! You have been walking the tightrope on the economy for a while now, mainly focussed on aircraft from your comments. Are supplies and oil still a headache for you? Any concerns about his sub campaign?

Nice question BB. Well, supplies are, overall, growing, even if slowly. The Empire has 2.6 millions of supplies all over the map (LCU included). 100 days ago they were 2.2 millions...so, not that bad. The ending campaign is China will help for sure but i already know that it will be tricky to keep all those units scattered around well supplied. Burma is a good example... that theatre alone, even if the fightings have been very few, needs 20k supplies monthly to be shipped there... BTW, i'm doing my best to keep the whole map supplies. His subs campaigns, so far, have been not very intense. We managed to always counter his moves, and, in the last months, the losses have been very low (never more than 1 transport per week) so far. In the next months things will be harder. His torps started to work and he is constantly changing his sub strategies. Lately it seems he's concentrating on hunting my warships instead of my merchants.

Oil is a constant problem. Levels keep on getting lower both in Japan and in the whole empire. There's nothing much i can do about oil. i'm short of 440 oil pumps every day, so it's easy to do the math...we're gonna be out of oil very soon.

Fuel is a bit better. We have now 3.5 millions fuel in the whole empire (ships included). 100 days ago they were 3.3...so it's still growing. Japan still has 1.6 million fuel tons and we should reach 2.2 in the next 3 weeks (as soon as the mega convoy will arrive).

We're shutting down most of our Nav Shipyard in the next months. With the arrival of these 2 CVs and the Musashi (which should get online in 60 days), we'll be able to concentrate only on the DDs. This should allow to bank 5500 HI points each day. Total HI is at 1.4 millions and i'd like to get to 2.0 by the end of 1943

Thanks for the detailed overview GJ. The Japanese economy is one of the world's great mysteries to me, and I am trying to get a feel for what is possible with good management overall. It looks like you have managed it very very well - with some input from others, but mostly by your own quick grasp of how to make it work and vision for what you wanted to do with it. It may not look a sexy as hurling KB all over the map, but it is equally as important.

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I have not yet begun to fight! OTOH I have not yet begun to flee. Hmmmmm - choices, choices -always with the choices.

...Oil is a constant problem. Levels keep on getting lower both in Japan and in the whole empire. There's nothing much i can do about oil. i'm short of 440 oil pumps every day, so it's easy to do the math...we're gonna be out of oil very soon.

....

This is a big miss .... when you are out of oil, you run out of fuel VERY quickly. No fuel, no fleet and no HI production.

Did you build a lot of HI? Or did you not get oil production repaired?

Generally, if you capture the DEI and don't build much HI, you should be able to bank oil until the allies start re-taking the DEI. This is early '43, you should be putting a lot of oil every day into the bank ... not still falling behind ... have you projected your economy into '45? If not, I would sit down and do that straight away. You need to be able to forecast where your 4 critical stocks (oil, fuel, HI, and supply) will be through game end ... and they all need to be above zero through '46 ... well actually well above zero, but I think you get the idea.

...Oil is a constant problem. Levels keep on getting lower both in Japan and in the whole empire. There's nothing much i can do about oil. i'm short of 440 oil pumps every day, so it's easy to do the math...we're gonna be out of oil very soon.

....

This is a big miss .... when you are out of oil, you run out of fuel VERY quickly. No fuel, no fleet and no HI production.

Did you build a lot of HI? Or did you not get oil production repaired?

Generally, if you capture the DEI and don't build much HI, you should be able to bank oil until the allies start re-taking the DEI. This is early '43, you should be putting a lot of oil every day into the bank ... not still falling behind ... have you projected your economy into '45? If not, I would sit down and do that straight away. You need to be able to forecast where your 4 critical stocks (oil, fuel, HI, and supply) will be through game end ... and they all need to be above zero through '46 ... well actually well above zero, but I think you get the idea.

i Pax! Nice to have you back here! Your IJ aknowledge was really missed!

No, i didn't expand the HI, a part from bringing the Georgetown (Malaya) HI up to 50, nothing else was expanded (noteven the yards). I only repaired the damaged HI at Changsha, nothing more. I have 7300 HI industries and 2992 oil centers with 3316 refineries.Tracker's report says i'm short of 440 oil centers.

I didn't repair 172 oil centers that are still damaged simply because it would have costed me too much supplies (which are always short in this Mod where ref don't produce them). Despite all my efforts to bring oil to the HI, the overall numbers tell me that i'll run out of oil no matter what i do. But, considering the fact that refin do not produce supplies, i don't think oil is so critical here. The problem is that Japan needs 12300 fuel points every day just to run the HI...which means that, out of the 15600 fuel i'm producing daily, only 3000 is left to run the fleet

But, a part from shipping all the fuel i can to Japan and to move as much as oil as possible, i don't know how can i change these numbers.

The fleet is already doing all it can to bring enough fuel back to HI to keep decent stocks of it (i try to always remain above 1.5 millions fuel in japan)...but once the oil reserves will run dry, fuel will become a huge problem

For some reasons i don't understand, today, april 2nd 1943, the second version of the Jill advanced and, despite having the R&D factories set to No, Yes, No, they immediately entered into production without being "blue" first... and with realistic R&D, now i just lost three valuable R&D factories and am stuck with 5 damned factories producing Jills

Yamaguchi managed to avoid any new sub contact moving back to Truk. Tomorrow we should be able to anchor there and reorganize the fleet. The second CV arrived today. Now two brand new CVs are ready, with 20 DDs and 4 CLs as escort, to be moved back to Truk to join Yamaguchi's fleet, while the Junyo and 2 CVLs (Zuiho and Ryuho) will be sent back to Japan for the april upgrades.

In China the 23rd Army managed to shock attack and push back an enemy corp east of Tsuyun... we'll try to river cross...it will be bloody, i know...but we must try to flank his strongpoints east of Kunming

For some reasons i don't understand, today, april 2nd 1943, the second version of the Jill advanced and, despite having the R&D factories set to No, Yes, No, they immediately entered into production without being "blue" first... and with realistic R&D, now i just lost three valuable R&D factories and am stuck with 5 damned factories producing Jills

This happened to me in spite of that setting (which is obviously not protection against them flipping into production). I had it with both the A6M line and the Tony line.

Maybe a tech issue? I'm still not sure but the advice I got when I brought it up there was to do just what you're doing. It happened again to me after that with these settings, and I've just chosen to eat it. It really sucks if you're struggling for supply though, and will have to change those over to another model.

One thing I did do when one factory changed and was still blue as production was change it back to research and it worked, even not having Realistic R n D on.

< Message edited by obvert -- 1/15/2013 11:23:29 AM >

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

Yes, usually they get "blue" for one day before entering into production... and that allows you to change it into another R&D model...NOT THIS TIME thou! Yes...i'll eat it...but it sucks cause i'm already short of supplies and the idea to waste some more 100k supplies to change those 90 factories to something else really pisses me off!

I think the issue is related with WHEN the new model becomes available.. if you're already into a month (for me it was the 2nd of April when the new Jill advanced and became available) you're not able to change them back... so probably the only way to do it is to change them before the reseacrh path reaches 100 R&D points and wait untill the next month to actually upgrade your producing factories.

more bombings by 4Es at Taberfane. More ships spotted at Ndeni and the usual "bait" TF near Broome with BB/CAs and several xAPs in it, simply sitting 1 hex NW of Broome for the last 3 days....

In Burma those Hordes of bombers seemed to be meant to resume the bombings against mitykina... They arrived today and heavily bombed the base...but i don't care much: Mitykina has 4 forts and in jungle terrain with 550 AVs (1 Army HQ, 1 Division, 1 Regiment and 1 Arty unit)... he won't break my lines here, no matter how hard he tries.

In China we obtained a couple of 2-1 around Chungking... the perimeter is shrinking as we wished: good!

The new Carriers left Tokyo today and will be moved to Truk immediately. 1 CV and 2 CVLs will follow the opposite route and will go back for upgrades.

Pretty boring turns... tomorrow we'll try to ambush with 54 Georges the 4Es that daily bomb (unescorted) Christmas Island from Cocos...let's see if i can give some relief to my base and finally be able to re-open the AF there.

The ambush over Christmas didn't work. For the first time in 3 months the enemy bombers, despite clear weather, didn't come . I had to set my Georges back to Java cause the long range LRCAP mission gave too much fatigue for another day in a row... too bad However the strip, despite the bombings, is slowly getting back to operativity. we're down to 27% damage, but the repair facilities are 100% damaged so it's impossible to base anything there other than FPs...

Quiet everywhere else... just some BBs spotted 1 hex north of Derby... and some PTs coming up to Koepang... if he wants to naval bomb Koepang he's gonna find me ready. Bombers are being transfered and some DDs are already in place, along with 250 mines and 5 subs...

Alor (north of Timor) is being bombed mercylessy... he's trying to shut down all the not defended AFs in the southern DEI...

many many subs are hunting around Truk where my KB is parked (and spotted by his long range recon planes).

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

I hope you don't end up in a situation like PZB's and Andy Mac's game where he simply ran out at some point and the game had to stop.. it would be too bad.

Let's hope not! But now this would be huge if confirmed... if this scenario, a part from not producing supplies via-refineries, do have more than 1000 HI factories missing... i don't think i'll be able to hold when all those LCUs will pop up in 1944... i've asked in the modder forum...let's see what the gurus say about it

Posts: 5317
Joined: 1/26/2005 From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!Status: offline

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

The ambush over Christmas didn't work. For the first time in 3 months the enemy bombers, despite clear weather, didn't come . I had to set my Georges back to Java cause the long range LRCAP mission gave too much fatigue for another day in a row... too bad However the strip, despite the bombings, is slowly getting back to operativity. we're down to 27% damage, but the repair facilities are 100% damaged so it's impossible to base anything there other than FPs...

Quiet everywhere else... just some BBs spotted 1 hex north of Derby... and some PTs coming up to Koepang... if he wants to naval bomb Koepang he's gonna find me ready. Bombers are being transfered and some DDs are already in place, along with 250 mines and 5 subs...

Alor (north of Timor) is being bombed mercylessy... he's trying to shut down all the not defended AFs in the southern DEI...

many many subs are hunting around Truk where my KB is parked (and spotted by his long range recon planes).

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

No, not nerfed. I beleive that they used Scen 1, the historical scenario as their basis. Scen 2 is a fantasy scenario where IJ is given quite a decent boost to allow her to be more competitive for a longer period of time. ie increase the likelihood that the game will go into '45 and the allies will actually get to use their Bolts and Stangs. A lot of Scen 1 games end in late '43 / early '44.

The ambush over Christmas didn't work. For the first time in 3 months the enemy bombers, despite clear weather, didn't come . I had to set my Georges back to Java cause the long range LRCAP mission gave too much fatigue for another day in a row... too bad However the strip, despite the bombings, is slowly getting back to operativity. we're down to 27% damage, but the repair facilities are 100% damaged so it's impossible to base anything there other than FPs...

Quiet everywhere else... just some BBs spotted 1 hex north of Derby... and some PTs coming up to Koepang... if he wants to naval bomb Koepang he's gonna find me ready. Bombers are being transfered and some DDs are already in place, along with 250 mines and 5 subs...

Alor (north of Timor) is being bombed mercylessy... he's trying to shut down all the not defended AFs in the southern DEI...

many many subs are hunting around Truk where my KB is parked (and spotted by his long range recon planes).

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

No, not nerfed. I beleive that they used Scen 1, the historical scenario as their basis. Scen 2 is a fantasy scenario where IJ is given quite a decent boost to allow her to be more competitive for a longer period of time. ie increase the likelihood that the game will go into '45 and the allies will actually get to use their Bolts and Stangs. A lot of Scen 1 games end in late '43 / early '44.

hi pax!

thanks, but if i'm not mistaken, the numbers u mentioned in Mike's AAR about stock scen 1 are pretty different from mine. You say "Now let's look at HI, your industrial fuel consumer. You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan. To that you have, within the same area as above, the opportunity to capture 1020 more. Let's assume though that this is captured at 50% damaged, thus 610 more before any repairs. Thus in total you have 7560 HI factories requiring 15120 fuel each day. "

So in my scen 30 i have nearly 900 HI less in Japan...which means 1800 supplies less every day!...add this to the refineries not producing 3000 more supplies and i end up having nearly 4000 supplies less every day (not considering the initial stocks of scenario 2 that were reduced back in this scenario).

This could be acceptable, but my concern is that, given that the OOB for this scenario is the same for scenario 2, i fear these 4000 supplies less can crack my whole economy when the late war scenario 2 OOB will start to appear in 1944... all those LCUs and air groups will eat a lot of supplies...and there's no way i can produce more of them, nor to avoid the appearence of those LCUs...

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

Yes, i agree, but are we sure the managment you talk about is effectively doable? we're talking about 3800 less supplies every day, not talking about the initial stocks missing from scenario 2...

I think i'm doing a good job so far in economizing (sp!?) my economy expenditures but these numbers are scary...is this scenario economically balanced?

thanks, but if i'm not mistaken, the numbers u mentioned in Mike's AAR about stock scen 1 are pretty different from mine. You say "Now let's look at HI, your industrial fuel consumer. You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan. To that you have, within the same area as above, the opportunity to capture 1020 more. Let's assume though that this is captured at 50% damaged, thus 610 more before any repairs. Thus in total you have 7560 HI factories requiring 15120 fuel each day. "

So in my scen 30 i have nearly 900 HI less in Japan...which means 1800 supplies less every day!...add this to the refineries not producing 3000 more supplies and i end up having nearly 4000 supplies less every day (not considering the initial stocks of scenario 2 that were reduced back in this scenario).

This could be acceptable, but my concern is that, given that the OOB for this scenario is the same for scenario 2, i fear these 4000 supplies less can crack my whole economy when the late war scenario 2 OOB will start to appear in 1944... all those LCUs and air groups will eat a lot of supplies...and there's no way i can produce more of them, nor to avoid the appearence of those LCUs...

This is my only concern...

Not sure we are on the same page. Let me try to clarify: "You start with 6950 HI in your control as Japan" this means Japan, Manchuria, Occupied China, Formosa, .... so if you fire up a new game of Scen 30, and then open up the industry screen, how many HI factories does it show?

EDIT: I don't have DBB30 , but DBB28 shows 13900 HI => 6950 HI factories at start for Japan. Not all in Japan, but for the IJ side as a whole.

DBB 30 was incorrect when GreyJoy started his game (same as mine), but was corrected later on. If you go to the Mod Section you can see what it was and how it has been corrected through some post of GJs and mine.

Just adding this tidbit, but when they decided to stop producing supply from refineries didn't they make some sort of supply increase otherwise in spots where they felt it appropriate? Maybe daily supply or LI or something.

Just adding this tidbit, but when they decided to stop producing supply from refineries didn't they make some sort of supply increase otherwise in spots where they felt it appropriate? Maybe daily supply or LI or something.

Unfortunately they did it in october of 2012, after NY59Giants observations...while our version of scen 30 started in July...so economy of scen 1, stocks of fuel,oil, supplies etc if scen 1, OOB of scen 2 and no additional supply/fuel encrease

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Joined: 1/26/2005 From: Back in the Office, Can I get my tin hut back!Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

It seems that i'm playing a SUPER nerfed Japanese economy... more than 1000 HI factories seem to be missing in Japan .... 7100 in Stock Scen 2, 6070 in this scenario...oh my...

Maybe DBB managed to get the japanese economy right, now that you have extra units to play with you have to actually manage the economy, aircraft & shipping production rather than go flat chat on everything.

Yes, i agree, but are we sure the managment you talk about is effectively doable? we're talking about 3800 less supplies every day, not talking about the initial stocks missing from scenario 2...

I think i'm doing a good job so far in economizing (sp!?) my economy expenditures but these numbers are scary...is this scenario economically balanced?

So you work backwards, I have this economic ability so I can only afford X aircraft, X ships etc. Maybe you live with 100 A6M2 instead of 100 A6M3, or only build 75 of the better. Maybe you cant forward 4 CV but only 3.

It might be that you land offensive in China was unaffordable.

You have to live within your Budget, unlike a Government you cant print more notes.

(Could be why japan tried the blitz, they may have known they couldnt pay the bills if it went too long?)