I didn't actually get a chance to watch it, but I've read about it in a couple of different places. 1ball's right about the lying: it's going to happen in debates no matter what, though it's always worth pointing out. But as far as I can tell, most debates end with both candidate's supporters claiming victory and superiority to their foe, and this one is no different in it's aftermath. Ryan was the more profligate liar, but that's been the case over the entire campaign. All in all, I don't think it has much bearing on the overall campaign or the election result.

2. Ryan was wrong when he said a rise in the jobless rate in Biden’s hometown was “how it’s going all around America.” The rate nationally has sunk back to where it was when Obama took office. And in Ryan’s hometown, it’s more than 4 percentage points lower that it was at the start of Obama’s term.

3. Ryan misquoted a Medicare official as saying “one out of six hospitals and nursing homes are going to go out of business” as a result of the Affordable Care Act. Not quite. The official said that many could become “unprofitable,” and the the situation could be monitored to head off bad outcomes.

4. Ryan claimed that Obamacare includes taxpayer funded abortions. In fact the law provides no direct funding of abortion except in cases of rape or incest or to save the mother’s life.

5. Ryan said that Obamacare's cost savings board won't include anybody with medical training. Actually, the board must include physicians and other health care professionals among its members.

and then, worst of all, at least in the boy-scout spirit that he sells himself with,

6. When he said to Biden that he knew the Obama administration wasn't used to bipartisan cooperation to get things done. That's hilariously dishonest, given that republicans have used every obstructionist trick in the book, both political and procedural, to block everything Obama wanted to do. Now, there's no crime in that. I'm sure they feel morally obligated to thwart any and all of Obama's objectives. But to represent yourself and the party you help lead as bipartisan-friendly after that? LOL. He's a horseshit wonk-boy posing as a serious technocrat.

That doesn't preclude Biden from being a horseshit Washington lifer posing as a man of the people, mind you. But Ryan's lies outpace the other side's by a comfortable margin.

I did watch it and basically I do agree with Lady X. The clear winner was the mediator. No one talked in details about the tax loopholes or mortgage deductions.

It was more of less what I had expected. Although more than usual clash, Biden laughing, Ryan smirking. A Vice-Presidential debate? It was an unprofessional debate. When you cannot back up yourself with facts, you have to rely on being loud, interrupt, laugh and come out with opinions.

These are our next four years.

Biden took credit on the administration's helping of the housing problems. Not true, "Making Home Affordable" program has helped just a few families, while making them go through hell in document preparations. In the mid time the home was still being foreclosed, so it was a race against time. Oops we did try to help but the house foreclosed first, sorry! JPMorgan Chase, not even tries to do that, even with the program present. That is a slap in the face of the administration.. or as many think just a fake program being implemented to answer the bad times.

Ask yourself. If someone happen to lose the job because of Wall Street and not being able to find another job for months, should that person really lose the home and all of the money that was already paid? When all they need is a temporary adjustment of their mortgage? Here you, housing problem fixed! Wow, boy I can be a Vice president also Haaaaa.

NACA a national non profit organization has truly helped a lot more peoples not loosing their home.

Choose n Practice Happiness

Life is simple; we are what we eat and what we read. Talk is superfluous.

Joined: 10/21/2010Posts: 3,402Location: The wilder parts. , United States

oldrascal wrote:

What lies are you reffering to from Ryan?

“You can cut tax rates by 20 percent and still preserve these important preferences for middle-class taxpayer. It is mathematically possible. It’s been done before. It’s precisely what we’re proposing.”

You can't, actually. There aren't enough deductions available for just the upper percenters to make up for a 20% across the board tax cut. Taxes would have to be raised on the middle class to make Romney's tax plan work at all, and it would still lead to huge deficits.

“If you like your health care plan, you can keep it. Try telling that to the 20 million people who are projected to lose their health insurance if Obamacare goes through or the 7-point million – 7.4 million seniors who are going to lose it.”

This is total bullshit. Ryan evidently pulled these figures out of his ass. The Affordable Health Care Act actually adds coverage for 30 million people, and all the elderly people would keep their Medicare.

“7.4 million seniors are projected to lose their current Medicare Advantage coverage they have. That’s a $3,200 benefit cut.”

Nope. Actually there is a projected 11% increase in those with Meidcare Advantage coverage.

“Obamacare takes $716 billion from Medicare to spend on Obamacare.”

More bullshit, although Ryan may not have pulled this figure completely out of his butt. AFHCA will save that amount by cutting waste, fraud and inefficiency. Oddly, Ryan's budget plan will cut the same amount of waste and fraud, but he plans to use the money to further lower taxes on the wealthy.

“The vice president was in charge of overseeing this. $90 billion in green pork to campaign contributors and special interest groups.”

Nobody, not anyone who has looked into this claim can find any pork. Herb Allison, the finance chairman for the McCain campaign in 2008 could find no instance where any loans were given to friends or family like Ryan claimed. Allison's review studied the entire DOE loan program and didn't find one instance of "green pork."

The Republican majority in the House and the filibuster ending proof minority in the Senate have done nothing except impede the Obama administration. No U. S. Senate minority has ever filibustered at the rate the Republicans have since Obama took office. The Republican's stop any legislation that could be seen to bring good press to the administration. Their goal, as it has been since 2008, is to defeat Obama, bipartisanship and the good of the country be damned.

The AFHCA included many conservative ideas and even allows private insurance companies to flourish, yet not one Republican voted for it in the Senate, and only three in the House. President Obama has gone out of his way, foolishly in my opinion, to be bipartisan and allow conservative voices in his administration, but the Republican party has done nothing but block and hinder.

Ryan said that Romney's 5 point job plan would create 7 million jobs. I know that this is meaningless to those of you who believe all economics is witchcraft, but many economists believe that the Romney plan would actually slow the recovery and plunge us deeper into recession.

Ryan criticized the Obama administration for cuts in the defense budget that Ryan supported and voted for, including cuts in the budget that would have increased security at U. S. embassies. Ryan has pushed for cuts in security for his entire time in Congress. Romney's budget would make the security issues at our embassies even worse.

Here's an idea for you. You want to know when Ryan was lying in the debate. Look at the video. See if his lips are moving.

Nope, not sorry I asked at all. I just wanted to see what they'd say. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I doubt it could be done here, anyway. Just want to see what opinions and biases shows up.Now I know more than I did.

Thank you all for weighing in. Collective social discourse is always a good thing. Please do cast your vote in the upcoming election. Your right to vote is a precious thing hard-won.

ALthough I intend to vote in the Presidential race, I am much more interested in making sure that Maryland's marriage act is not struck down by referendum. I believe it was the late Tip O'Neal who said, "All politics is local."

"There's only three tempos: slow, medium and fast. When you get between in the cracks, ain't nuthin' happenin'." Ben Webster

LOL. Great indeed. Mittens has it all figured out, never mind the details. That's the beauty of it, though. You don't have to see how it works. All you have to do is believe it will work and be financially independent, therefore not having any skins in the game to begin with. When you demonize from a position of privilege and power, you don't have to admit any responsibility for the country as a whole or explain how bullshit math somehow equates. You can bitch about liberals and taxes, and everyone basically gets why you say it. Everyone recognizes reluctance to sacrifice, just as they understand that some people will fall for fear-stoking nativist demagoguery. It's a good gig, if you can get it.

LOL. Great indeed. Mittens has it all figured out, never mind the details. That's the beauty of it, though. You don't have to see how it works. All you have to do is believe it will work and be financially independent, therefore not having any skins in the game to begin with. When you demonize from a position of privilege and power, you don't have to admit any responsibility for the country as a whole or explain how bullshit math somehow equates. You can bitch about liberals and taxes, and everyone basically gets why you say it. Everyone recognizes reluctance to sacrifice, just as they understand that some people will fall for fear-stoking nativist demagoguery. It's a good gig, if you can get it.

You're pretty much describing Obama from '08, except for the fact that his hopey changey message was all about how it was the conservatives and their "stinginess" that were the problem.

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