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---------------------------------------------BAISA, Iraq (Reuters) - Guerrillas have shot down a U.S. transport helicopter near Baghdad carrying troops on a recreation break, killing at least 13 in the bloodiest attack on U.S. occupiers since Saddam Hussein was overthrown.

The crippled Chinook came down in farmland near the village of Baisa, south of Falluja, a stronghold of anti-U.S. resistance 50 km (30 miles) west of Baghdad.

"Currently 13 soldiers are KIA (killed in action) and some 20 wounded," a U.S. Army spokesman told Reuters on Sunday.

U.S. military helicopters circled above. Other helicopters and U.S. Humvee vehicles were parked around the wreckage.

A U.S. spokesman said two Chinooks had been heading for Baghdad airport with troops on a rest and recreation break. He said the downed helicopter, carrying 30 people including five crew, had been "shot down by an unknown weapon".

A witness in Falluja, Dawoud Suleiman, said: "There were two American helicopters. They fired a missile at one and missed, and then they hit the other, which crashed and caught fire."

Some Iraqis were jubilant. "The Americans are pigs. We will hold a celebration because this helicopter went down -- a big celebration," said wheat farmer Saadoun Jaralla near the crash site. "The Americans are enemies of mankind."

U.S. troops told journalists to leave the area and confiscated their film as another military medical helicopter with a red cross sign on its side landed, sending up clouds of dust from the dry scrubland.

It was the third time guerrillas had brought down a U.S. military helicopter since U.S. President George W. Bush declared major combat over in Iraq on May 1.

Bush himself had vowed on Saturday to stand firm and said leaving Iraq prematurely would strengthen the "terrorists" who he blamed for recent deadly suicide attacks.

DANCING ON THE WRECKAGE

In Falluja, residents said a roadside bomb had hit a convoy of U.S. soldiers in civilian vehicles. At least one vehicle was ablaze at the scene, where crowds gathered to celebrate and shout anti-U.S. slogans. Television pictures showed a gleeful youth wearing a U.S. Army helmet. Others danced on wreckage.

Before the helicopter attack, 123 U.S. soldiers had died in hostilities in Iraq in the past six months, including one killed by an overnight roadside bomb blast in Baghdad and two killed by a bomb in the northern city of Mosul the day before.

In Baquba, northeast of Baghdad, residents said a roadside bomb had exploded as a U.S. convoy passed, hitting a bus carrying university students and wounding two women.

Several of Iraq's neighbours were holding security talks in Damascus over the weekend, mindful of recent American assertions that Syria and Iran are not doing enough to prevent foreign militants crossing into Iraq.

But Iraq's interim foreign minister, Hoshiyar Zebari, said he would not accept a belated invitation to attend.

Officials at his ministry said Syria had been reluctant to invite him because of misgivings about being seen to recognise Iraq's U.S.-backed interim government.

"It's impossible for us to make it, and that was their intention," Zebari told Reuters on Sunday. "We don't even know what the agenda is."

U.S. troops and Iraqi police had tightened security in Baghdad and other cities over the weekend in response to rumours that guerrillas planned another series of bombings.

Many fearful parents kept their children out of schools in the capital for the second day in a row, and some of the pupils who did show up for class seemed terrified.

Outside the Baghdad Middle School for Girls, one of three armed guards said some pupils had wept when dropped off by their parents. The deputy headmistress, who declined to give her name, said only about a fifth of her 750 pupils had turned up.

The rumours followed suicide bombings against the Red Cross and three police stations on Monday, which killed at least 35 people and prompted the United Nations and other aid agencies to withdraw more foreign staff and review their operations in Iraq.

Quote:Alex123 said:Think we're up to 33 attacks a day now. Double the number that were occuring in July. This is shaping up nicely into another Vietnam.

That's what it looks like now; unfortunately i doubt that it will teach us the same social lesson that Viet Nam did. The Bush govt is much more beligerant (as is the mainstream population) than LBJ and Nixon; and in fact the agressive seizure of mideast oil might be a matter or national survival (Interesting how their "swing case" pins the crisis right around the Mayan End Date).

I dont know why i dont just get a match and set the whole global reserve on fire. Then there would be no more need for killing (and no more napalm either)...It really is the root of all evil.

Think we're up to 33 attacks a day now. Double the number that were occuring in July. This is shaping up nicely into another Vietnam.

there have so far been 379 american soldiers killed in 7 and a half months of combat.

379 / 7.5 = 50 soldiers killed per month in iraq.

in vietnam, there were 58,169 american soldiers killed in 10 years.

58,189 / 120 = 485 soldiers killed per month in vietnam.

the average number of US soldiers killed per month in iraq has been 50. in vietnam, it was 485, almost ten times as many. the total number of US soldiers killed in the 10 years of fighting in vietnam is 153 times as many as the total killed so far in iraq.

More needs to be done to protect both coalition troops and Iraqi civilians, perhaps we (UK) should consider sending in more troops and try to get more middle eastern involvement in the re-construction effort...

--------------------The punishment which the wise suffer, who refuse to take part in government, is to live under the government of worse men.

america's involvement in vietnam did not begin with a massive, intense, immediately victorious assault, like it did in iraq. it began with first with military advisors, then a few troops to help the south vietnamese forces, than a whole bunch of troops to fight the war for them.

US involvement in vietnam grew slowly over a period of time, while american troop levels in the middle east have decreased since the start of the war.

there was a large, organized, focused, and determined resistance to US troops in vietnam; 1,100,000 communist fighters are estimated to have been killed in total. in 1967, the estimated troop strength of the NVA was at 300,000. as early as 1961, the viet cong had 25,000 men.

the situation in iraq is entirely different. the level of resistance is nowhere close, and will never be, as high as it was in vietnam.

in vietnam, they were fighting the organized armed forces of a sovereign nation, veterans of their recent victory against french colonial rule.

the resistance in iraq is nothing of the sort.

Try and compare like with like.

that's precisely my point. the two are different beyond comparison.

Also don't forget there were many hundreds of thousands more americans in Vietnam than there are in Iraq right now.

If the average was 485 a month in vietnam, 16.167 a day, then it looks like today was a worse day then the average day there, eh? And it isnt over yet, not to mention the fact that they will not report the soldiers that died after evac.

More then 15 ended up dying, they just wont report on the deaths that happened after they left the scene. It is ridiculous.

Quote:PsiloKitten said:Im not cheering anyone, you can put all the words in my mouth you wish.

Im simply stating the FACTS of what is occuring.

Then perhaps coming across sounding a bit less gleeful may ease the confusion.

--------------------You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

I'd say the attacks they have been able to engineer in the last week are definately progress on those terms, GREAT, being alot, big, large, you are welcome to go to dictionary.com and look it up. Compared to getting mowed down by our military. They are definately greatly progressing in their tactics.

Im sure you'd like to argue with that, but the number of attacks and number of casualties wont let you get too far.

Quote:PsiloKitten said:Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

Bring em on, eh?

If this gets me banned, so be it. If you support the Iraqi's, you are a stupid fucking bitch. No other polite/intellectual way to say this. You are so blinded inyour hatred of bush that you cheer american boys dying over there.Enjoy having me as an enemy.

Edited to delete my plans to have Psilo suffer for her comments

--------------------In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

If this gets me banned, so be it. If you support the Iraqi's, you are a stupid fucking bitch. No other polite/intellectual way to say this. You are so blinded inyour hatred of bush that you cheer american boys dying over there.Enjoy having me as an enemy.

Edited to delete my plans to have Psilo suffer for her comments

Here is his original post:"If this gets me banned, so be it. If you support the Iraqi's, you are a stupid fucking bitch. No other polite/intellectual way to say this. You are so blinded inyour hatred of bush that you cheer american boys dying over there. My new goal in life is to find out every drop of personal information about you that I can, and post it in as many chat rooms / bulletin boards as I can. Enjoy having me as an enemy. "

Threatening someone's personal information on a drug related board such as the shroomery is serious narc like pussy behavior. Good luck in your efforts though, Ive always been extremely careful about my involvement in this place and used proxies, a fake, yet consistant "real" name. I wouldnt hold my breath until you uncover any shred of personal information about me. Im not idiotic, unlike the threats you made.

You said "Great progress" in relation to Americans being killed by the Iraqi's. The IRaqi's are the people you said are making "great progress". what, praytell, the fuck could you have meant other than you support killing US servicemen?

--------------------In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.

--------------------In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.