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JOHN: So what I’m asking is what is the evidence, what is the outward evidence in somebody’s life that they truly have the fear of the Lord? Number One: they’ll obey God instantly. Number Two: they’ll obey God even if it doesn’t make sense. See has God ever told you to do something that didn’t really make a lot of sense to you?

AUDIENCE: Yes he has!

JOHN: Number Three: it means you’ll obey God even if it hurts. Number Four: means you’ll obey God even if you don’t see a benefit. Okay, let’s look at Esther. She’s queen to the Persian king. And her cousin says you have got to go before the king. And you have got to remember even though she’s wife to the king, she can’t walk in that, that court room because she wasn’t scheduled. And if she walks in and he doesn’t point that scepter her head comes off. She had everything to lose and she had nothing to gain. She had nothing to gain by going in there. What, what good would it do her? I mean yeah, all the Jews were going to be destroyed on a certain day. But nobody knew she was a Jew, she’s queen, she’s not going to be destroyed. So she has everything to lose including her head and nothing to gain but she still obeyed God, she feared God. And Number 5: it means you’ll obey Him to completion. Saul did 99.9 percent of what God asked him to do. Yet Samuel still looked at him and said you disobeyed God, you rebelled against God. Think about it, he killed every Amalekite except one person. Now here’s the scripture I wanted to bring you to “cause this is the, I think, this is the jugular vein scripture in the Bible on the fear of the Lord. Psalm 25:14. It says, “The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, and He will show them His covenant.” Now I want you to listen to that: The secret of the Lord, or the secrets of the Lord are with those who fear Him. Now I want to ask you a question to all my audience, if you’re watching by video answer me. How many of you have secrets in your life, let me see a show of your hands, show your hands. Okay, what do I do with the rest of you? Pray with for your lying now or later?

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JOHN: Everybody has secrets in their life. How many of you know all secrets aren’t bad? Okay? So your mind went to the negative on that one. Okay?

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JOHN: All right, so let me ask again how many of you got secrets in your life? Everybody’s got secrets. All right. Now this is, this is, I want you to honestly answer this question: Who do you share your secrets with and I’m going to give you two choices. Choice Number One, okay: acquaintances? Choice Number Two: intimate close friends?

AUDIENCE: Close friend, intimate close friends.

JOHN: Intimate close friends. God’s no different. God says I share My secrets with My intimate close friends and by the way My intimate close friends are those who fear Me. Now let me show you I’m not taking this out of context. I’m going to read Psalm 25:14 same psalm out of the New Living Translation: “Friendship with the Lord is reserved for those who fear Him.” So you know what God is saying right there? Not everybody is My friend. Let me be more specific: not everybody in the church is My friend.

AUDIENCE: Right.

JOHN: Okay? There were two men that were called the friend of God in the Old Testament. Okay? Who were the two men? Abraham and Moses. Were there others? Absolutely! Okay, I believe David was a friend of God, I believe Daniel was a friend of God, I believe Joseph was a friend of God, many others, Deborah, Esther. But these two men’s lives exemplified what it took to have a relationship of friendship with the Lord. Let’s talk about the first guy, Abraham. Why is Abraham called the friend of God? Because when Abraham was really old, one night God comes to him and says, “Abe?” “Yes, Lord, yes.” I want you to take your son who you really love, who you’ve really grown attached to, the son you’ve waited for for 25 years. And I want you to go on a three-day journey and kill him for Me. Now, okay, you’ve heard the story a thousand times, okay, if not, if not more. But you had the Book of Genesis to read, he didn’t. You have to understand all God says to him this night is I want you to go three days and kill Isaac. He doesn’t tell him why. He doesn’t say if you sacrifice Isaac then I’ll send My Son. He does not say that! Do you understand what God is asking him to do? It would have been easier for Abraham to go kill himself, because there was nothing or no one more important to Abraham than Isaac. Yet do you know what my Bible says? Early the next morning Abraham saddles his donkey and is on his way. You know how some people say, “Well, you know the Lord’s been dealing with me about this now for several months” and they laugh.

AUDIENCE: (LAUGHTER)

JOHN: You are bragging about your lack of the fear of God. Okay? Okay? So now God gives him a three-day journey. Why? To think it over. It’s easier when you heard the booming voice of God the night before. But what about three, two and a half days later, you haven’t heard one word from heaven and you’re looking at the mountain, you’re going to put the most important person or thing to death in your life just because God said do it and didn’t give you a reason to do it. But Abraham goes to the top of the mountain, he builds the altar. Can you imagine his emotions while he’s building that altar? And his son’s helping him build it. He ties up Isaac on that altar, he lifts up the knife and he’s ready to put the most important person or thing to death in his life just because God said do it and didn’t give him a reason. And right as he’s ready to thrust the knife through Isaac, an angel of the Lord appears, and you go read it in your own Bible, and the angel says “Abraham stop, because now I know you fear God? How did the angel know that Abraham feared God? Because he obeyed instantly, because he obeyed when it didn’t make sense, because he obeyed when it hurt, because he obeyed when he didn’t see a benefit, and because he obeyed to completion. Abraham puts down the knife, unties Isaac, lifts up his eyes and there’s a ram caught in the thicket. And out of his inside comes this: JEHOVAH JIREH! The Lord my Provider! Now you’ve heard that before because you’ve read the Bible. But wait a minute. God just revealed a facet of His personality to Abraham no human being had ever known before. Why? Because he’s my friend.

Sid: We want everyone everywhere to get the heart of the One New Man glorious congregation because God’s glory is about ready to fall on this earth, and you better get your patterns right or you won’t be able to contain the glory that’ll be coming on this earth. That’s why as my guest I have Kevin Howard Hebraic scholar, Bible teacher, because… actually the reason God directed me to Kevin is I was given a gift. It’s such a wonderful gift, it’s a book, but it is a hardback book it’s about “The Feasts of the Lord,” that’s the title. I’m just opening up at random and I happened to open up because there’s a 150 full color photographs, a picture of a Passover table. I have the author Kevin Howard who I’m speaking to him at his home in Cincinnati on the telephone. This is… I mean anyone would be able to come inside of the Last Supper which was a Passover Seder with this particular picture here. Kevin this is beautiful! One of my favorite ingredients is here Elijah’s cup because we all… because Elijah is supposed to announce the coming of the Messiah and it’s almost like a game when I was a child. My sister and I would run to the door, front door, and open the door to see if Elijah was there. My grandfather would always send us there. I’m just kind of curious, obviously this was staged but this was the most beautiful photograph of a Passover table. Tell me a bit about it.

Kevin: Well that… a lot of those elements on that table are my own personal things from Passover.

Sid: Oh you must have one wonderful Passover…. No wonder you told me that was your favorite festival!

Kevin: So we used what we use for our personal Passover. So you know people can get the imagery in their minds of what a Passover table is like. You notice on the full page spread there every item is diagramed and explained.

Sid: Let’s go to Rosh Hashanah since Rosh Hashanah is this Friday night it begins. Tell me a bit about it.

Kevin: Well Rosh Hashanah is known as the Feast of Trumpets. Biblically the observance of Rosh Hashanah was the blowing of the shofar. That was the command in scripture “Blow the shofar and keep it a day of Sabbath rest.” What has been carried over till today is the name was changed to Rosh Hashanah emphasizing the tradition that that’s the beginning of the civil year, that is all the harvest is past now we begin a new agricultural year. So it’s known as Rosh Hashanah today which literally means in the Hebrew Head of the Year. So it is the Jewish new year it’s a tradition today to send cards well-wishing Jewish New Year cards to your friends and family.

Sid: Tell me a bit about the shofar.

Kevin: The shofar is very interesting. I’m glad that you asked that Sid because in scripture this 5th holiday, or Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, God did not command the people to specifically take the shofar He said simply it was to be a day of blowing, as in sounding the trumpet. Historically the Jewish people, the nation of Israel had 2 trumpets that God had commanded Moses to build and construct in Numbers chapter 10. They were long flared instruments used in the temple sounded over the sacrifices. Then there was also the shofar which was the horn a ram. It couldn’t be a cow because a cow reminded the Jewish people of the golden calf and the idolatry at Sinai. So the shofar is a musical instrument was the horn of a ram. It reminds people of the ram that was caught in the thicket as provision for Isaac’s deliverance there on Mount Moriah. But the shofar the rabbis said that was the instrument to be used for this feast, and there is some scriptural basis for it on Yom Kippur just a few days later God said that on that holiday that the shofar was to blow every 50th year to announce the Yovel, or the Jubilee year. So the shofar is sounded on this day.

Sid: There’s an ancient rabbinic view as to what happens to the devil when he hears the shofar. Tell me about it I love to hear about this.

Kevin: That is a great tradition. The rabbis say that the reason for the trumpet or the shofar sounding is to confound Satan, referred to popularly as confounding Satan. So on Feast of Trumpets, or Rosh Hashanah, the shofar will be sounded many times in the synagogue anywhere from long blasts, to 3 short blasts, to 9 staccato blasts. It’ll be sounded many many times traditionally over 100 times that day to confound Satan. You might say “Why does it confound Satan?” Well the tradition says “That when Satan hears the shofar blow he will think the Messiah has come and that his time is up.” So it confounds him and it’s blown to confound Satan the great enemy of God’s people.

Sid: You know in your book you also explain what happens in a synagogue. You actually explain the synagogue liturgy. Why did you put that in there?

Kevin: Well I thought it was very important because the synagogue liturgy Sid today a large portion of it reflects temple liturgy in the days of Jesus. I mean ancient temple liturgy a lot of its been pulled forward and there’s lot of good passages of scripture that are read and still preserved in very beautiful readings and liturgy of the synagogue today. It’s very uplifting, it’s very important but on this holiday part of the liturgy spends its time exalting God as King and Ruler, a big portion of the liturgy is devoted to that. As well as His majesty, as well as His remembrances of His everlasting covenant to His people. So those are very important themes in scripture and they’re reflected in that liturgy.

Sid: Now you also, and this is for every Biblical festival, you have the traditional foods. What can we expect on this festival?

Kevin: Well the traditional food, which I’m sure you had it in your background as well the community I live in is apples and honey. It might sound like a strange food for Rosh Hashanah whenever we’re thinking of it as being a somber day of preparing repentance for Yom Kippur coming up, since it is the Jewish New Year apples dipped in honey are eaten to symbolize and wish for a sweet and glorious coming new year. So it’s pretty much universal food eaten on that day.

Sid: Of course you have a chapter in here called “Israel’s Dark Day,” explain that.

Kevin: Well it’s interesting and very unique to me as I look at this holiday that Rosh Hashanah, or Trumpets, is the only holiday out of the 7 that occurs at the beginning of the month when the moon is dark. You look at it Passover begins Nissan 14 the middle of the month the moon is full, Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits the moon is full. Tabernacles the moon is full and bright, but this day the moon is dark it’s only a small sliver. I believe it fits in again with the prophetic significance that Trumpets points forward to time of great judgment. The prophets all spoke about it, and most of the New Testament writers too speak of a time of great judgment called “The Day of the Lord” when God stands up in great wrath to judge the wicked of this earth in preparation for Messiah’s glorious return and setting up of His eternal Messianic kingdom.

Sid: Then of course you talk about the last trump.

Kevin: Yes the last trump is tied to this holiday because only twice in scripture are we told God blows a shofar and it’s very important. God sounded the shofar at Mount Sinai when He prepared to bring the nation of Israel into the Mosaic covenant. We’re told in Zechariah chapter 9 as well as the New Testament that God will again sound, it’s called the Trump of God, or God’s Shofar, He will sound that again whenever he sends Messiah back to judge the wicked, to deliver His people, and set up His kingdom. So there’s a future day of Trumpets when God Himself will blow the shofar.

Sid: I really don’t understand how non-Jewish Christian can understand the depth and the riches of the New Covenant, or the Old Covenant at all with not understanding the Biblical festivals as you have them laid out in this book.

Kevin: I agree it’s all tied affect point of illustration when Paul said “Messiah our Passover Lamb has been sacrificed for us.” How can we fully understand the work of Messiah upon the cross if we don’t understand what He did as our Passover Lamb? It’s all wrapped up in these prophetic feasts and portraits of Messiah and His works.

Sid: You have some very interesting thing in the book. You have a 10 year Biblical calendar to tell over the next decade when the Biblical festivals are. Now there’s no point and reason why you did not go beyond 10 years is there?

Kevin: Actually I believe it was about 20 years but it’s just a matter of how many fit on a page.

Sid: Oh I thought you meant He was going to be coming in 10 years, okay (laughing).

Kevin: Well hopefully He comes in the next year, hopefully even in our days very soon.

Sid: Okay we go through the 10 days of repentance and prayer and we come to Yom Kippur, what is that?

Kevin: Yom Kippur is the Day of Atonement Israel’s Day of Atonement. In fact it can’t be emphasized enough that Yom Kippur was the most solemn day of the year for Israel and even today in the synagogue. It is the most solemn day of the year in fact scripture says it was to be a day of afflicting the soul which is defined by some of the other writers as day of fasting.

Sid: You know I’m just looking through your book. The print is just so readable, the white is so white, the colors are so magnificent in this book, but you talk about the 2 goats, and you talk about the confession of the high priest. I mean very few Christians understand these things. You talk about the burning of the incense and you explain that. The sprinkling of the blood, the scapegoat, then you talk about… I remember this my father used to share this in Poland. He would, my grandfather would take a chicken by the neck and swing it around his neck and they’d break the neck, and this chicken would die for his sins he would say.

Kevin: Wow that’s amazing because that ceremony is not seen that often, it’s a very rare ceremony.

Sid: Well I never seen it my father told me about it.

Kevin: Well it’s called kaparot, and it still exist today in some of the Chasidic ultra-Orthodox circles, but even that ties back to the basic understanding that a covering for sins, which is what Yom Kippur means, a Day of Covering, or a Day of Atonement, only was possible through a blood sacrifice. In fact that’s what the Lord said “I’ve given you the blood on the altar for a covering (kefar) an atonement for your souls.”

Sid: I tell you if you’ve been listening all this week to Ella Brunt and what she had to tell about her son. Her son was… it was this kind of freak accident, they were out on a sailboat and a wind came up he got tipped out of the boat and at the time he was just 6 years old under the water for almost 10 minutes. He actually was dead, they gave him… they brought him back artificial resuscitation, but in the hospitals the doctors didn’t expect him to live. But they had a strategy they had a game plan. They decided they would only speak faith filled words, only believers would be allowed around their son, and they’d only speak the desired result rather than what they saw with their eyes. They had a pair of socks that they gave to a pastor who preached a sermon, in the Bible it talks about taking cloth that is anointed and putting it on a sick person. So you put it on your son Cody’s feet and what happened next Ella Brunt?

Ella: We had written on there on one sock saying “My victory is complete” and the other sock said “The devil is defeated.” So the doctors and the nurses would ask us that and we would show them in the scriptures how scriptural it was and that’s what we were believing. Of course we were out of the ordinary parents from the ones that they had seen that we just would go by their report and use them as prayer targets to believe God to change. So God was changing the situation.

Sid: Now Cody in the meantime was in a coma, he was on life support equipment, then the hospital had determined to take him off of life support, explain that.

Ella: There had been no change in his medical status and after 10 days they have to excavate the patient because of the tubing on the vocal cords were, just literally destroys the vocal cords. So after 10 days it’s just a medical procedure that if they don’t start breathing on their own then they do a tracheotomy and put the breathing machine in that way. So it was 9½ days and the doctor came and told us that it was time that they take him off of the mouth incubation therapy. So they were making plans to do that so we were not allowed to be in there during that time. So we used that time to pray and believe God that during that time he would breath, and sure enough whenever they did excavate him he started breathing on his own and within an hour or so he actually said something. A nurse was working on him and he… because they just talk to their patients just like they can hear and since he was in a coma that was just their regular procedure. All of a sudden he said “Yes mam.” Well the doctor ran over there to see if that’s what he thought she thought she heard and Cody started moving and started responding to their vocal commands move fingers and this sort of thing. They came and got us and we were able to speak life and God literally put a new brain and new lungs in our son. After a couple of days…

Sid: How is he today I mean he just last month celebrated his 10th birthday, how is Cody today?

Ella: Well he’s doing what he loves to do and that’s play baseball. He’s an all-star baseball player and he’s top academic achiever in his class, he’s an “A” student. So God gave us the miracle that we believed for physically and mentally. He is totally restored and you would never know that he had ever been in an accident. He loves to swim, he is not afraid of water, he dives under the water with his snorkel and he just loves life to the fullest.

Sid: I have to ask you this question, would your son be alive today, or if alive be any better than a vegetable if you had not taken such a strong stance of agreement with God’s word?

Ella: I don’t believe so. Our pastor says “What happens next is determined by what happens now.” As we began to immediately just speak the word of God over him from the very start that that paved a foundation for God to work on. I believe in my heart that we would not have him if we didn’t radically stand against what the devil was trying to destroy in Cody’s life and stand and believe for God for life the life of God.

Sid: Now after he recovered he went back to your church and what was the first thing he said to the congregation?

Ella: Our first Sunday back the pastor invited us up to the platform because the whole church had been praying and believing God all this time almost a month had gone by. He asked Cody “I think you have something to say about this don’t you?” So Cody just took the microphone in his hand and he said “God always wins.” That was just something that he said, he thought of it on his own and really that pretty much sums it up God always wins in every situation.

Sid: Now when Cody was under the water for almost 10 minutes he had an experience with God describe what happened to him.

Ella: He relayed later that he saw Jesus that there was this bright light and Jesus walked out of this light and talked to Cody He told him some things. He could see Him speaking to him but he looked at me and he said “Mom I don’t remember what He said.” I told that he would remember whenever it was time and everything, but God literally, you know, came and visited him.

Sid: The person that is in an impossible situation that needs a miracle from God right now what is your advice?

Ella: I would say believe God that God is a good God that there is a real bad devil and that he comes to steal, kill and destroy, but Jesus will come and give you life. Just trust we talk about faith and everything and faith is just trusting God to do what He said He would do, and the Bible is full of miracles and instruction for our lives today. We just need to believe God that what He even said 2000 years ago is still even true today and He still works miracles.

Sid: I love what Cody said I want you to say that again at church, what did he say?

Ella: God always wins.

Sid: I think you like saying that too don’t you?

Ella: (Laughing) I just think it’s got a ring to it. I want to make some bumper stickers on it.

Sid: God always wins. But what about the people that believe God and die?

Ella: Well to me they get the ultimate healing you know to be absent with the body is to be with Jesus. So they just beat us there to heaven, but there are some things that we will just not understand why until we get to heaven and that’s not for our reason to question why. But we just do our part and believe God then God sees the whole picture. Just never blame God or be mad at God, but I just want to encourage you to know that God is a loving God and He just loves us and He is good Father God.

SID: Dodie, your husband was Southern Baptist. You didn’t believe in healing and then a tragedy hit your family. Your baby daughter Lisa had, in birth, a problem that resulted in a condition much like the polio that you had. So if you don’t have any paradigm for healing, what did you do about it?

DODIE: Well that’s just about the time that John decided that he was going to receive God, that he knew that Jesus went about doing miracles and healings, not just when he was here on Earth. So he took a train to a meeting where he was going to preach in Atlanta or some place and so he would have time to seek God. And he came back, and he told me, he said, “Dodie, I know that things are different than what we’ve believed. But at that time I didn’t know a thing in the world about healing and he didn’t either because he wasn’t taught it in seminary. So he just said, that was just a little while before Lisa was born. And so when we got this news he said, “We’re just going to pray for her and believe that God will heal her.” I didn’t know what I was doing, but he said, “I’m going to pray a prayer then I want you and Paul,” we had two children at that time, “I want you to just look at her and say thank you Jesus for healing her.” So that’s what we did. I didn’t know what I was doing, but I said, “Thank you Jesus for healing her.”

SID: And what happened to this horrible condition she had?

DODIE: Well she was so listless and all. She couldn’t move. She couldn’t take a bottle. It took 45 minutes to get a half an ounce down her. And so she began to improve. She began to be able to have more strength and then she began to sit alone. And the doctor had told her she may be in a wheelchair. But then she started improving and the doctor said this is a real miracle. So now Lisa is a grown woman with three children, two of them in college.

SID: I’m glad that you and John prayed for her.

DODIE: I’m so glad. Listen, we wouldn’t have had a little healed girl preaching the Gospel now if we hadn’t known about healing.

SID: You did something right at home, you and John. All of your children are in ministry.

DODIE: I know. I’m so proud of them. You don’t know how proud I am of them.

SID: You go to the hospital for a day and you end up staying there 20 days. But then John is told you only have a few weeks to live.

DODIE: A few weeks to live.

SID: What did he say when he heard that?

DODIE: You can’t believe, I mean, the feeling, it was right at Christmas time. It was December the 10th that I got that news after they had done every test under the sun. I was supposed to just stay three or four days, but they couldn’t find out what it was. They thought at first it was an abscess, a liver abscess. But then a tumor the size of an orange and two small ones like almonds. So John just said to her, “Well Doctor, we’re going to believe for a miracle.” The doctor said, “You’re going to have to have a miracle, Pastor.” So we went home that day on the 5:00 train.

SID: Did they just release you?

DODIE: They released me. John said, “I don’t want to keep her here anymore. I want to take her home and pray over it and get the church to pray over her.” And so we did in the 5:00 traffic. I so I looked terrible. I was jaundice. My skin was wrinkled, and of course now it’s from age, the wrinkles. And my skin was jaundice. My eyes were jaundice. And we went home and I didn’t go to bed because I thought I don’t want to look like I’m sick. I just will stay up, my mother and dad were there, until bedtime. And so the next morning we woke up. We laid at the foot of our bed and John prayed a prayer and commanded the cancer to leave me. Like Jesus commanded the fig tree to wither and die, he said “Cancer, you leave my wife. Don’t you ever come back again, in Jesus’ name.” These words stuck with me, Sid. “I need her, Jesus. The church needs her. The children need her. Her mother and daddy need her, and you need her, Jesus.” I never will forget that. As far as I was concerned, on December 11th, I believe I received healing of cancer.

SID: But wait, you weren’t healed.

DODIE: I wasn’t healed.

SID: This went on for several years. So why did you believe it started at that moment?

DODIE: I had to have a starting point otherwise I would have lost it.

SID: Did you believe that you were healed?

DODIE: I believed when my husband prayed he had commanded power. I had faith in John Osteen. I had faith in God and his belief in God.

SID: She learned how to stand on the Word of God, but it was beyond that. You literally did that.

DODIE: I did. I got my little Bible and I stood on it. My feet aren’t very big because of polio, so they fit on my little Bible. And I said, “Jesus, I’m standing on your Word. I don’t know anything else to do.” I stood on the Word of God and I have been ever since.

SID: Now God spoke to you because you knew, she knew Oral Roberts, T.L. Osborn, all the great healing evangelists, and John Osteen her husband, and they all could pray for her.

DODIE: They did.

SID: But then God said to you, tell me what God said.

DODIE: God spoke to me one night and he said, “You’ve had Brother Roberts pray, you had Brother Osborn pray, Brother Hagin,” he said, “but it’s up to you and me. It’s between you and me.” So I realized I’d better get with it.

SID: Tell me some of the things you did. Tell me about the pictures.

DODIE: I put pictures up of me, of John and I at our wedding and then I put a picture up of me when I was 38, I think.

SID: Why did you do that?

DODIE: Just to remind me of how I was healthy and strong, and that I would be that way again someday.

SID: And you know something else that impressed me?

DODIE: What?

SID: You refused to talk about the suffering, the pain, that you’re feeling sick and tired. Why would you do that?

DODIE: Because I didn’t want to bring, we’re snared with the words of our mouth and I didn’t want to be snared. I wanted Jesus to hear good things coming out. So when the children would say, “Mother, how are you today,” I would say, “I’m blessed. I’m so blessed.” And we lived where we had a long driveway out in Humble at that time, and I would take mail out or checked on the mail, bring it back, and I would say, “I trust Jesus to heal me,” all the way up to the mailbox. I just did it. Now I still, when I see a cemetery, “No, devil, you will not take me. You’ve [?] to steal!” I said it loud, too. There’s people with me. I don’t care. Just let them know I’m a fanatic. I’m alive.

SID: Now you’re a fanatic.

DODIE: I’m a fanatic.

SID: About saying God’s Word out loud, meditating.

DODIE: Where would I be, Sid?

SID: Tell me if you hadn’t learned to meditate on God’s promises, do you think you’d be sitting here right now?

DODIE: No I don’t. If I hadn’t stored up the Word of God in my heart, those years that we had been married, I married when we were 22. I was 48 then. If I hadn’t stirred up the Word of God, if John hadn’t learned about the healing that did and I hadn’t stirred, he used to tell us, “Stir the Word of God in your heart for use when needed. You may not need it now, but someday you will.”

SID: Tell me a few scriptures. I want you, what you say when you’re by yourself, out loud with the same attitude. I’d like you to do that.

DODIE: Okay. I will not die, but I’ll live and declare the works of the Lord. He sent his Word and healed them, and saved them from their destruction. I will restore health unto you and heal you of your wounds. Every day I read all these, Sid. I have in my little iPad I read them every day of the week. I have not missed a day reading them. I don’t leave the house without reading them.

SID: But you, I’m sure had many bouts with fear.

DODIE: I did. In the middle of the night I would wake up and I was just thinking and when John was asleep right there by me, I’m thinking the devil would say, “You’re not really healed. You think you are, but you’re not.” And I would say, “No devil, you will not tempt me with that. You will not keep harassing me with those words. I shall not die, but I shall live and declare the works of the Lord.” And the devil would say, “You’ll wear that pink dress to your funeral. I’ll see to it.”

SID: And what would you do when he’d say that?

DODIE: And I’d say no. I’d replace that with a good thought, with the Word of God. I’d just replace his word with the Word of God.

SID: Okay. It was a process.

DODIE: It was a process.

SID: And she did get healed. In fact, I’ve read some doctors’ reports outside of one of her books and she really did. And if God will do that for Dodie, it’s not just healing. The promises of God, standing on the Word of God, the faith to stand on the Word of God, this woman lived it. However, I have her here for a purpose and that is she has a gift of the Spirit that we’re going to talk about. It’s a gift that is the most important gift on the planet, and I want her to pray for you to have that impartation when we come back. Don’t go away.

Sid: I have on the telephone someone that everyone listening will agree is red hot for Jesus her name is Margy Palm. I’m speaking to her at her house in San Antonio Texas this housewife, mother of 2 small children on December 11, 1981 was praying in the Spirit and God directed her to go to a particular place and when she got out of her car a gun went into her back and it was she didn’t realize that this man was on the 10 Most Wanted List of the FBI. He had brutally raped and murdered 30 woman previously one just a few hours before. And all of the woman that he had raped and murdered looked a particular way exactly the way that Margy looked. She got into the car and she found a supernatural compassion and love pouring out of her for this man. He didn’t look like anyone you’d want to love he didn’t talk like any one that you’d want to love. I mean vulgarity coming out of his mouth talking about rape and talking about how he murdered people. She didn’t even know how bad it was but it was bad by what she just heard. But there was a supernatural peace and he said “Lady I’ve never met anyone like you before I feel love pouring out of you.” And so Margy then he said “I want you to buy me some beer and cigarettes.” I mean you really had won some trust.

Margy: Hm hm.

Sid: For him to even say that to you.

Margy: Yeah well it was getting to the point where every time he’d say some horrible word he would say “You know I’m so sorry I said that I’m really sorry about that so (Laughing). But the reason I went into this a 7-11 and did this was because previous to that he said “You know I’m never going back to prison I’ve been in and out of prison since I was 14 and I’m never going back.” And I said “Well you’re in a prison of hatred and there are evangelists that go into prisons.” And he said “Well like who?” And for some reason I named this evangelist and his name is Kenneth Copeland and I have no idea why I named his name at that time it just came out. And you know I’ll tell you about that later but he just latched on to this name and he said “Well I want to meet this man.” And I said “Well I don’t know him personally.” And he said “Well I want to meet him where does he live?” And I said “Fort Worth.” And he said “Well I want to go to Fort Worth.” And I said “What?” And so he said “Let’s go up through Austin” and I said “Well I know that this is going to sound strange but while you were talking about going to Austin I see a road…I feel like the Lord’s showing me there’s a road blockade around Austin that surrounding and were not supposed to go there and I see us driving up to I feel like the Lord’s showing us to drive to Curville and there’s going to be a bus that you get on.” And he just looked at me and then he said “Well I want you to go in and buy me beer, cigarettes and a paper and then come back to the car.” So anyway I went in there and there was nobody else in the 7-11 except me and I knew that I could very easily tell the lady that I’m in the car with some crazy man.

Sid: Why didn’t you do that?

Margy: I didn’t do it because I felt the Lord was telling me to go back. And I mean I know that sounds really bazaar.

Sid: Weird (Laughing)

Margy: Really weird but it was really weird but I felt like I was in the middle of God’s perfect will and I was supposed to do that. I did not have fear thats was what was so strange. I even looked at the paper and saw that he was headlines of the paper and I was not afraid.

Sid: Do you recall what the headlines said?

Margy: Well the headlines of those papers that paper no I don’t.

Sid: Alright go ahead.

Margy: Well anyway I took the paper and everything back to the car and when he opened the paper and looked at it. And I had told him I said “Now I don’t want you to read me what you’ve done so you can read it but I don’t want to hear what you’ve done.” So he said “Well I’m going to read you this one part lady because” and he read me this first part of this article and it said that there was a road blockade around Austin just what I had told him.”

Sid: What you had seen in your vision.

Margy: What I had seen in the vision God had given me so he said “How did you know this?” And I said “Because I know God and He knows it and He told me that.” And he said “Well now what exactly did he tell you to do?” He said “He showed us me to tell you that we’re supposed to go to Curville and there’s going to be a bus in Curville that you are supposed to get on.” And he said “Well okay.” And it was very interesting because of all of the sudden he’s asking me what to do. And the other thing I notice about him was that he was very articulate and very smart. And I said to him “You are really bright I mean your vocabulary is amazing.” And he said “I went to New York School of Design and Brown University.”

Sid: Hm.

Margy: And I said “Really.” I mean I could tell he wasn’t just a punk out there you know what I mean he was smart he was diabolically smart intelligent. And anyway…

Sid: But I understand he was on the FBI’s 10 Most Wanted List for 10 years I guess it does take someone intelligent to last that long.

Margy: Well when I finally met with the police and they told me that he was on the 10 Most Wanted List they told me that normally men with only over genius IQ will…are on this list. And they said that that is not unusual at all they’re all diabolically intelligent. And that was very very noticeable all day long this kind of a sick intelligence like a psychotic person. But anyway he just out of the blue he said “I want you to go call your husband.” And I…

Sid: Now this trust is really being pushed but go ahead.

Margy: He said “I want you go call your husband and I want you tell him that you’ll be home later but don’t tell anything about me.” And so I went to the telephone and when I got into the telephone…well it wasn’t in a booth it was just kind of sitting out he got out of the car and came right in front of me and held the gun right on me while I was on the phone. So I wasn’t…

Sid: So he was trusting you but not that far.

Margy: Not that far so anyway I call my house and my husband was at home and it was about 6:30 in the evening and he said “He says your voice sounds so nervous I mean your shaking.” And what happened was when I heard him his voice my voice started shaking all of a sudden reality started hitting me.

Sid: When you heard your husband’s words…

Margy: Yep, yep.

Sid: You went out of this almost spirit position.

Margy: It completely left the peace totally left me and all of a sudden reality hit me and I started thinking about my kids and am I ever going to see them again and am I ever going to see him again and my whole body started shaking all over. And consequently my mouth was shaking and my words were shaking my husband said “Something’s terribly wrong with you what’s a matter?” And I said you know I’m out shopping and I’ll be home later I’m fine I just you know there’s crowds around me but don’t…you know I’m okay. And he asked me quite a few times listen I know something’s very wrong. And I said “No I’m fine I’ll be home later just feed the kids.” And I’ll be home later and you know he tried to tell me well don’t be too late because we’re going out with some people tonight you know and I thought “Oh brother if he only knew where I was.” (Laughing)

Sid: Hm hm.

Margy: And so you know I got off the phone and I was just shaking all over and Steven said of me “You are upset lady what’s a matter with you and you’re scared and I can see fear all over you.” And I said “Your right and but I put my hands out and put them on his shoulders and I said “In the name of Jesus I take authority over all of the spirit of fear and I command it to leave me and leave the situation and you know ask You Lord to put Your peace back and on me and just show me what to do.” And I mean the moment I said the words the peace was back instantly which was pretty amazing and then he said “Okay let’s go back to the car and let’s go do what you said to do what you think God told you to do (laughing.) So we walk back to the car and you know I got in the passenger side he got in the driver’s seat and the peace was there again and he said “I’m going to need some money lady.” So I said “Well I’ll show you how to get to my bank and so he drove over to where my bank and I felt like God was telling me to give him $300 so I I withdrew and I had him get me a slip and I withdrew $300 and I gave it to him and he started crying and he said “Why would you give me this much money and you’re just the most wonderful woman I’ve ever met in my life.” And I said “Well I wouldn’t give you this much money except that I believe that that’s what God told me to give you.”

Sid: I have a woman that no doubt if you’ve been listening all this week her name is Margy Palm and I’m speaking to her at her home in San Antonio, Texas. And on December 11, 1981 she was praying a lot and felt directed by God to go to a K-mart a place that she normally did not frequent. And she went there and unbeknownst to her a man was waiting for her this man was on the FBI 10 Most Wanted List. He had brutally raped and murdered over 30 women and one just a few hours before that all had her exact profile. He puts the gun on her she gets in the car and all of a sudden she sees scriptures before her eyes that assured she’ll be okay even though this man is acting and talking crazy. And she doesn’t know how bad the situation is but she knows that it’s bad and she sees a vision in front of her of her praying for this man. So she takes her hands…she’s sitting on her hands from under her lays them on this man and starts praying for him. And he says “Oh my God I have a religious fanatic in the car” and she and then what happened next?

Margy: You know as I said I have my hands under me and he said “Lady you can take your hands out. And you know previous to that he said “If you try to even get out of the car I’ll kill you.” And I mean while I was praying this prayer over him he had that gun jabbing in me and he put the gun kind of between us and he said “I don’t know why but I think I want to talk to you.” And I think you know he told me later that he was amazed that I wasn’t trying to get out of the car. Well I was amazed also that I had so much peace. And but I knew that it was the Lord I knew his power was in the car I mean you could really feel His power in there. And any way he tried a few times to tell me a few things about himself and I wouldn’t let him. He said “You just don’t know who I am I…

Sid: Why wouldn’t you let him?

Margy: I thought it would if he started telling me what he did it might bring fear I might start you know hearing things that would scare me and I didn’t want to yield myself to fear. I wanted that’s how I felt at the time I just I didn’t want to hear something that’s going to scare me. And really I actually couldn’t think even I mean he committed a crime obviously and he obviously killed someone but I never in my wildest dreams dreamed he was a serial rapist. And thank God I kept stopping him from because I said “I really don’t want to know what you’ve done that’s not why God’s put me in the car with you I feel like God put me in the car to show you His love and His mercy. Because I kept hearing that over and over all day His mercy endures forever I kept that thought that thought just kept coming into my spirit all day “My mercy endures forever.” And I said “God loves you and God cares about you or I wouldn’t be in the car with you.” And he said “There’s no God that loves me lady you have no idea who I am and he said “I am a very evil man and I’ve done so many bad things no God is going to forgive me if there is a God I don’t even believe that there is a God and if there is He’s not going to forgive me.” And I said “Well my God has forgiven you or I mean He wouldn’t put me in this car with you if He didn’t care about you and love you.” And I started and for a couple of weeks before I even got in the car I had been praying that God would teach me what His love was what the love of God was because I read scriptures that says a scripture that says “Without faith it is impossible to please Him” And but then it ways “Faith without love you know fails without the love of God you’re nothing.” And you know faith works by love and love never fails. So I was starting to realize that I was having this overwhelming compassion when I would look at this man. And I thought “Why do I care about this man?” And I thought “Oh my gosh this is what the love of God is.”

Sid: How did he look by the way was he disheveled, was he very meticulous?

Margy: Disheveled his hair was greasy and long and he was dressed in black and he was extremely scary looking. He looked like a character out of a TV show and that’s what was amazing me that I wasn’t frightened of him that I actually was feeling compassion toward this man because he was also saying some absolutely horrible words to me and in the car.

Sid: And you’re feeling love and compassion.

Margy: I’m feeling love for this man that was just being obnoxious but at the same time He said “I feel like I want to talk to you.” And of course when he would say that I’m not saying it like he said it I mean he said a lot of colorful things in there when he would make statements like that. And I said “Well you know let’s go somewhere and talk.” And so we talked there in the parking lot there for a little while and then he drove my car and he was in the drivers seat he drove it through the drive-thru and got something to drink. And then he said “I want you to take me to a place that is secluded but not too secluded I want people to be walking around so it doesn’t look strange that we’re just sitting there you know I want you to take me maybe by a convenient store or something like that. So we ended up sitting by a convenient store in front of a middle school in the middle of a neighborhood San Antonio. He abducted me at 2:00 in the afternoon and we talked the whole afternoon. There were helicopters actually circling San Antonio looking for this guy. There were people I knew that later told me that there were police going up and down the neighborhoods telling woman to get into their home because this guy was out on the loose. And here I am sitting with him in this car. He said to me this one statement that was really surprising me because I never dreamed I was in the car with a rapist. But he said “I don’t know why lady but I don’t feel like raping you.” And I thought “Rape.” What in the wor…who is this you know I thought rape? He said “I don’t know why but I feel more love from you than any person I’ve ever known in my life who are you and why aren’t you afraid of me or are you an angel I mean I don’t understand who are you?”

Sid: You must have been the only woman he ever abducted that didn’t show great fear.

Margy: Yeah yeah that’s true he could not understand why I wasn’t screaming and believe me he didn’t understand why I wasn’t pleading to get out of the car saying “My…wanting to get back to my kids and all of that.” And I was amazed myself, I was totally amazed at how I felt and the peace that was in me and I said “Listen I’m not an angel just ask my husband sometime I’m not an angel.” But I said “Jesus is not going to appear to you unless it’s a phenomenon but he appears through His people and He lives inside of me.” And he said “His love in me is to powerful for your hatred.” And I said and the Bible says “There’s no fear in love, perfect love casts out fear” and you’re being confronted with this love and it’s too powerful for you.” And I mean I make these statements and I think “Where did that come from it was just the Holy Spirit was just anointing me to talk.” And many many times during the day he would say “I’m going to kill myself and I’m not going to be able to let you go even though you’re the nicest lady I’ve ever met.” And he would also say “There’s no God that’s going to forgive me lady I’m too bad I hate myself.” And I you know I’d reassure him over and over I said “My God loves you.”

Sid: Margy we’re out of time today we’ll pick up right here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone from her home in San Antonio, Texas is Margy Palm. December 11, 1981 is a date that Margy will never forget. She felt that God directed her to go to a specific K-mart which she normally did not frequent when she got out of her car unbeknownst to her was a man that was on the FBI Ten Most Wanted List. He had brutally raped and murdered 30 women one just a few hours before. She was the exact profile of the type of women this man looked for and felt a gun in her back and out of her mouth she said what did you say Margy?

Margy: I said “Do you know Jesus Christ?”

Sid: Why would you have said that? I mean I can think of a lot of things to say but with a gun in your back of course you didn’t know how bad this man was but a gun in your back is pretty bad why did you say that?

Margy: Actually I had turned around and he had it jabbing into my ribs in front. He had it in my back and then I turned around and I was facing him and then that’s when I said it. But I know the reason you know the Bible says that “Out of the abundance of your heart your mouth will speak. And you know I talked about on the last broadcast that your…the Bible says that you’re body is soul and spirit and you know in my mind the devil these words that he said I felt were from the devil…you know he was trying to scare me and I heard the words you know these thoughts in my mind say “You’re going to die.” And I…but I had what I had put in my heart for months and months was the word of God and I believe that’s what came out of my mouth what was inside of me. Because in a time when you’re in this the terror is so great that I was in your mind kind of shuts off and what’s really in you comes out you know.

Sid: What happened next.

Margy: He said “No I don’t know Jesus Christ and I don’t want to know Jesus Christ get in the car lady and sit on your hands.” So he had me get in the passenger’s side of my car and sit on my hands. And he jammed the gun into the side of my body and I had some presents in the back of my car it was Christmas time and he was very cussing and you know just saying all of these horrible things. And I was while he was doing this and he was also saying “I’m going to kill myself today I hate myself” and it was just a jumble of things that he was saying. Meanwhile I was over there sitting on my hands praying and asking the Lord “Please show me what to do.” I mean I just I didn’t know what in the world to do I had not figured out yet if it was God that put me in the car or the devil (Laughing.) I really didn’t know for sure but when I started praying I started realizing oh my gosh God put me in the car. I started hearing the scriptures and seeing them in front of me one of them was “I’ve given you authority over serpents and scorpions and over all of the power of the enemy nothing shall by any means hurt you.” And of course you know I had to…

Sid: What do you mean you start saying the scriptures in front of you?

Margy: Well it was like a….

Sid: Did you see like a vision of the words in front of you or did you have an impression?

Margy: Yeah I actually could see it in front of me like a readout.

Sid: Hm, it was like a tickertape.3

Margy: Yeah it was like a tickertape I could see it in front of me and which helped me tremendously to see it you know I could see it and when I saw “Nothing by any means hurt you.” You know I just I thought “Oh my gosh the Holy Spirit is speaking these words to me and He’s telling me that He has given me authority over serpents and scorpions and Jesus has given me authority over serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy nothing shall by any means hurt me. And then after that I saw the scripture “I have given you…..”These signs shall follow them that believe they shall cast out demons” and then after I saw those 2 scriptures I saw myself and taking my hands out from under me putting them on his head and I felt like the Lord was saying “Do what I just showed you to do.”

Sid: Out of curiosity had God ever worked this way with you before? I mean had you seen scriptures on a tickertape? Had you been told to do such bold things previously?

Margy: I had some yes I mean I have had things like that but nothing of this magnitude but I had had…

Sid: I mean if you’re wrong it’s your life.

Margy: I know that’s what I was thinking I thought “Okay this really is powerful it looks like God, it seems like God but if this isn’t God I’m dead (Laughing.) And so I kept praying to make sure that it was God I thought “Oh my gosh I…Lord I’ve got to know that this is You I’ve got to know that I’m not imagining this and making this up please make this clear to me.” And it just kept coming over and over and over and it was so strong that it was drowning him out. I wasn’t even listening to him any more I was really concentrating on what I was seeing. And then I knew that he was telling me to take my hands out…you’ve got to realize Steven said this guy said that I had to sit on my hands and this is what I was doing and the Holy Spirit showed me this picture and then He said “Do what do this.” What he was telling me to do was “Take your hands up from under you put them on his head and take authority over all of the power of the enemy nothing will by any means hurt you.” And I mean I just you know faith is believing something you can’t see but it’s believing it so much that you’ll act on it. And I believed what I was seeing so much I mean in the Spirit realm I couldn’t see it in the natural realm. I believed so much what he was showing me that I did it. I mean when I look back on it I think “How in the world did I do this?” But I really believed that all of those hours of prayer had built me up a lot spiritually. I believe that the whole thing was prayed out before I even got in the car is what I believed happened. And I was totally tuned into Him that day now that doesn’t mean I’m totally tuned into Him every single day because you know every day you make the decision if you know you’re going to yield to Him and listen to Him. Because every day He says “Choose you.” Choose I mean you have the ability to choose if you want to walk with Him that day when He’s telling you to pray or I really want to do something else. It’s like we really do have the choice.

Sid: So you reach over you put your hands on him.

Margy: Yeah.

Sid: And pray you…how did you pray what did you say?

Margy: Before I did I didn’t look at him but I said “What is your name?” And he said “Steven.” And I mean I could feel terror all over me I really could I could feel it my whole body trying to just get out of control and be you know was shaking I was shaking while I was seeing this stuff. And so I said “What’s your name?” And he said “Stephen.” And I said “I’m going to pray for you right now.” He said “Lady you’re not praying for me.” And I said “Yes I am.” And I took my hands out from under myself and I put them on his head and I said mean I was screaming this I said something like “In the name of Jesus I command every every demonic spirit that is trying to kill, steal and destroy that is trying to destroy this man’s life and kill him and kill me I command you to leave this car in the name of Jesus Christ.” “I know my rights as a child of God and I command you to leave this car right now, and I just thanked You Father that Your presence is in this car, that Your power is in this car and You will show us what You want us to do today.” And I mean all of this stuff just started coming out of my mouth and I said “I decree today that this man will be serving Jesus Christ before the day is over.”

Sid: Now what did he say?

Margy: Well I sat back in the seat I sat back on my hands again and he said “Oh my gosh I’m in a car with a religious freak.” (Laughing) and he said “Are you conning me lady?”And you know I never even heard that terminology but I said “I’m not conning you.” I said “Do you think it’s normal for a girl to carry a Bible a book of scripture and all of these evangelistic tapes do you think that’s normal?” And he said “No I don’t think it’s normal.” And I said “Well this is the way that I really am.” And all of a sudden I was realizing that God put me in the car with this guy and that’s when I started realizing God really put me in the car. And the other thing I was realizing was peace was in that car I wasn’t afraid of him anymore and…

Sid: Margy that’s not normal but hold that thought and we’ll pick up here on tomorrow’s broadcast.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone is Michelle Cohen I’m speaking to her at her home in Ventura California. Michelle was born in England she was 22 when she found out that it was hidden that she was Jewish because there was so much anti-Semitism she was trying to be protective but something woke up within her. Although she was raised in a non-religious home Jewish or Christian it just wasn’t religious at all. She was a very successful dancer went to a top performing arts school in England. Got involved in the dark side in the occult literally could see demons wanted out, didn’t know how to get out. She was literally a prisoner and one day she doesn’t know why she just cried out to God she said “Jesus if Your real help me.” And God heard that prayer and she wound up in America went to a church in California called “Church on the Way” Jack Hayford’s. And literally the Spirit of God came upon her she got set free she had experienced a peace like he had every experienced in the New Age or the occult. Did you feel clean Michelle?

Michelle: Oh I felt so clean I felt like just like the Bible says that I was a new creation.

Sid: And you heard a voice of God and that the voice said for the inside “You are home.”

Michelle: You’re home.

Sid: You made Jesus your Messiah and Lord.

Michelle: Yes.

Sid: But even after you did that I’d like to say “Everything turned out wonderful but you began to run out of money.”

Michelle: That’s right (Laughing) I come from England to America planning to go back planning to go back to my choreography and dance teaching work in England. And as I developed a wonderful relationship with the Lord I knew that God was telling me “You need to stay here you need to call them you won’t be back I’ve got something else for you.” And it was during that time my husband and I Geoffrey Cohen and I were beginning to get together we were in prayer meetings together, we were studying the Bible together. And it got to the point where I had run out of money I had no plane ticket back, I had no work Visa with which I could stay in the United States and I prayed and fasted for 3 days. And the Lord spoke very clearly to my heart trust Me and about 2 weeks after that Geoffrey asked me to marry him (Laughed.)

Sid: Well with that I think I have to talk to talk to Geoffrey Cohen could you put him on the phone?

Michelle: Sure here he is.

Geoff: Hi.

Sid: Hi Geoff you were in the room so you heard what Michelle said and you’re read on it she was doing real spiritual things praying and fasting. Your read was when you saw a woman that was excited about Jesus and not ashamed of her faith as you were you figured she’s got to be the one. And then both of you had a very interesting open vision and the thing that’s so amazing is you both had it at the same time. Tell me about it.

Geoff; Well there were 2 experienced that I had with the Lord one of them was in England when we saw we were actually staying in the basement of my wife’s Dad’s home in London. And both of us saw the hand of God and we saw I’ll just tell you what I saw you know she saw the same thing but I didn’t know she was seeing it at the same time until afterwards. I just saw the world in God’s hand and I thought “Wow it’s not so big after all.” Because it just fit into His hands so easily because His hands are so big.” And then God came and He opened up my chest and there is no way to explain it accept this is what happened it was a vision. He opened up my chest and He took the world and He placed the world inside my heart and ever since that time I’ve had such a burden for every tribe every nation every tongues. And what happened after that experienced in both of us a Spirit of travail and intercession came on us for the gospel to go into nations which it never been before. I was like Albania and where the iron curtain was still up at this time we began to pray that God would pull down those walls those iron curtains and those walls that are stopping the gospel from going into various nations. And of course the walls did come down after that and I’m not saying because it’s only because of our prayers but I know that that played a part of it.

Sid: Now I’m curious you said “Michelle had the same vision?”

Geoff: At the same time.

Sid: Can I speak to her for a moment?

Geoff: Yeah certainly.

Sid: Okay. Now Michelle you tell me what your vision was at the same time as Geoff.

Michelle: It was exactly that. We had a heart for people everywhere having come to…

Sid: I mean did he tell you what he was seeing and then you saw it?

Michelle: No not at all we were having a time of prayer this was different from other times of prayer in that as we just sat before the Lord His presence came. It’s not always like that when you pray sometimes you just sitting and you’re just having wonderful fellowship with the Lord or your praying but this was different the room filled with the glory of God. And we began to just come into a very deep place of prayer in the Lord and I saw exactly what Geoff saw we discussed it afterward we couldn’t believe we’d seen the same thing the world in God’s hand realizing that it’s not so big. These people all over the world can be reached because we’d had such an incredible experience of coming to know our Messiah coming to know Jesus personally coming to know that He is the one that takes away all of our sins that He’s the answer. We wanted to be able to tell everybody everywhere and we still do and God put the world in our hearts. And since that time He’s given us much opportunity to go.

Sid: Now you had a second vision with again the same things happened to you this this is really fascinating tell me about it.

Michelle: Well we were in South Africa now and again just coming to the Lord in prayer as we would do everyday just coming to sit before the Lord and again Sid all I can say is that it was a sovereign visitation from the most holy God. God comes in peace, God comes with joy, God comes in different way but this visitation from God was holiness came into our apartment building in Johannesburg South Africa. It was so incredible to experience His holiness we fell on our faces to the floor. We felt like 200 or more blankets were being laid upon us the weighty glory the presence of God was so great upon us. And we began to weep and weep and cry out for the people of the world for the people of South Africa and all of the nations of the world. For the Jewish people because Sid when God came in His holiness we had a vision of the very last days on this earth the days when there would be those who wouldn’t be ready to go with the Messiah when He comes again. And that has been having an incredible impact on our lives it was really a commission I believe from the Lord to go everywhere that He would send us to share the good news.

Sid: Did He indicate that many people might not be ready?

Michelle: You know Sid He did and that was what was so awful and dreadful the Bible talks about the coming of this dreadful day of the Lord the terrible day of the Lord. And I believe that it’s called that because of the horror in people’s hearts when they realize that they needed to get right with God but it was too late and that is what we saw when God visited us like that in Johannesburg. We saw that there would be those that weren’t ready and we sensed the horror of people who would say “I’ve missed it its too late Jesus has come He’s gone.” The trumpet has been sounded He’s come to gather up those that they belong to Him who have the Holy Spirit up He’s gathered them up and now He’s gone and it’s too late and tribulation begins to come on the face of the earth.”

Sid: I wonder if I can speak to your husband once more because at the same time that Michelle had this visitation Geoffrey had the visitation. Now did you hear the same thing that Michelle or did you hear something different Geoff?

Geoff: No it was exactly the same thing it was really God just supernaturally just opening our eyes and just there’s no way to explain except that it was revelation from God. Basically revelation means that God showed your something He revealed something to you. And I just saw…in fact I thought that God was going to come at that moment that’s what I thought was happening I thought that we were just about to be raptured up out of the earth right at that moment because His coming was so imminent it was so real to me the immediacy of God’s coming and how short the time is.

Sid: Now you said that you were pinned to the ground.

Geoff: Yes.

Sid: Could you have gotten up if you wanted to?

Geoff: No, no absolutely no way.

Sid: And the same thing with Michelle.

Geoff: Yes.

Sid: How long were you pinned to the ground?

Geoff: Probably obviously I didn’t time it but I would say 4 to 6 hours at least.

Sid: That’s a pretty strong thing God wanted to really get that point across to you.

Geoff: Very much so very much so.

Sid: Do you believe He’s coming soon though?

Geoff: Absolutely you know I don’t know the day or the hour nobody knows that but He’s coming soon I have no doubt. And to some He’s coming so soon that his last day could be tomorrow. It might even been the rapture but the very last day could be tomorrow so for them He really is coming soon and so that’s what God’s placed on my heart that He’s coming soon for everybody and we need to be ready.

Sid: And you know what I believe Geoff that God’s people must demonstrate God’s kingdom on earth so I mean that’s the way Jesus promoted the fact that the Kingdom of God had come on earth that’s the way Jesus grabbed the attention of unsaved people. And you’ve prayed for the sick. Tell me one sick person you’ve prayed for that has been healed.

Geoff: Well when I when I was ministering at that time it was called the homelands and so that’s because I was ministering in the ? and was actually a mountainous area and we had ministered the whole week. But we said that we weren’t going to pray for people during the week but on Sunday anybody was sick anyone could come and we were going to pray for the sick people on Sunday. And I can honestly say before the Lord that that day that every single person that I prayed for on that day was instantaneously healed. But the only one that you could actually see physically because people could say “Well what’s the problem?” They’d say “I’ve got a sore back or you know I’ve got a pain in my leg and they’d say that it was gone.” But there was one that you could visibly see there was a lady who was blind and she was about 3 people back in the prayer line and I was kind of secretly hoping that she wouldn’t pray for her to receive her sight because you know we have so little faith. I was hoping she’d say maybe she’s got you know a medical ? or something like that. Because you can’t fake it you know when someone’s blind obviously everyone’s going to see that they’re not. But God gave me a gift of faith when it came time to pray for her I said “What do you need?” And she said “Well I need to see.” And her eyes were smoked over they were glazed over she was 100% blind she wasn’t what we call legally blind in America which means that you could barely see but you couldn’t drive a car. She was absolutely blind she couldn’t walk without holding on to her daughter. And God gave me a gift of faith and He said to me “Yes I’m going to heal her but you’re going to put spit in her eyes but you need to ask her first.” So I asked her daughter and she translated and I said “Is that okay?” And she said “Of course” I wasn’t going to spit on your eyes if you’re blind if you’re going to be healed you know.

Sid: I have a Jewish woman on the telephone Michelle Cohen who is red hot for the Messiah. She was 22 years of age living in England when she found out for the first time she was Jewish it was hidden from her because of all of the anti-Semitism and the hurts that her mother had. And Michelle you said that you were going to a top school in London for performing arts and you were living with some other women things were not going so well in your life. You were living with some other women things were not going so well in your life you were breaking up with guys but it sounds like it really was affecting it wasn’t just oh well there’s someone new. It sounds like it really did…it really was very destructive in your life.

Michelle: It really was when my Grandfather died my Jewish Grandfather at the age of 15 I think that’s when I really began to ask the questions that so many people ask “Who am I; where do I come from; where am I going when I die? And you know getting together with boyfriends breaking up and having that pain of the inside and trying to deal with the pain began to open myself up to something’s that really became quite destructive.

Sid: Well you actually with the other girls in the dorm you had a séance how did you even know to have one?

Michelle: You know I really didn’t know much about that kind of thing when I look back now I realize opening the door…that’s what it really was opening the door to the devil because I didn’t know that it was the devil? No I didn’t even know that demons existed I didn’t know what they were if someone would have said that to me I would have laughed at them or come on demons? But when I look back now and I realized that when we did that night was a very serious step in the wrong direction.

Sid: Did you actually make communication with the spirit world?

Michelle: You know we did then I’ll never forget it the sense of darkness and evil in the room was unbelievable and in my naivety I thought “Well maybe this supernatural world out there is what’s going to hold the answers to some of my problems.”

Sid: Well I noticed that it sort of like the drug of choice for the moment gives you the high for the moment but in the New Age you have to keep going on to bigger and better things…

Michelle: Right.

Sid: Because the old isn’t working anymore did the same thing happen to you?

Michelle: Oh that’s so true you put that so well I went from the séance to looking into astrology and then you know what began is just looking through the magazines in a weekly basis became an ever deeper search getting books from the library thinking “Well if that’s not enough maybe I need to know enough to actually do it for other people.”
And from that it became tarot cards and then tarot it became every kind of New Age or occult type thing that came up I’d go to it. And what I found was instead of getting the answers to those phenomenal questions in life and the void in my heart being filled it then became my life became emptier and darker and more and more miserable.

Sid: But then it came to a point that you could actually look into the spirit world and you began to see demons? Tell me about that.

Michelle: That was true it was probably the most terrible time of my life that I can remember I felt like I was on such a downhill decline. I would wake up in the middle of the night and see some of the most grotesque creatures in my bedroom and glaring at me leering at me and I couldn’t do anything about it. Didn’t know what they were, didn’t know why they were there tormenting me but I was very deeply tormented by them quite awful.

Sid: Well didn’t anyone tell you how to close the door that you had opened?

Michelle: You know the whole of my time in England until I left England at the age of 24 I never heard the good news of Yeshua the Messiah. I never heard how to get free from these things I just went deeper and deeper into things that took me further and further away from life and truth.

Sid: But were you deceived to the point that you thought evil was good?

Michelle: You know I thought that the reality of what I knew deep down in my heart let me see that this wasn’t going anywhere this was no answer at all. It got to the point finally Sid that where I thought “I’ve tried everything I don’t know what else to do I don’t know where else to turn I don’t know even if I want to live anymore.” And I knew that these things weren’t the answer I didn’t think that the evil was good because if didn’t have no joy, there was no peace in it and it was just…life was miserable I didn’t even want to live.

Sid: October 1988 you hit a real low point in your life why?

Michelle: I had just broken up with another boyfriend I thought that my heart was going to break in two literally the pain was so great. I felt like I’d tried everything I could and I just didn’t want to live anymore. And I can remember walking upstairs into the bedroom thinking “I just need to figure out how to end this thing once and for all.” And Sid it was at that moment the lowest point in my life I don’t even know this precious name came from but deep down from the inside of me I could remember looking up as if through the ceiling to heaven and saying “Jesus if you’re real please help me, please help me.” And I just sob and sob and cried and cried for house and cried myself to sleep. And my life didn’t change overnight but I know one thing that when I woke up the next morning I had hope that I haven’t had the night before. I had hope that I could just keep going a little bit longer that I need a change I needed a big change and I didn’t know what that change was but I needed a change in my life.

Sid: Well you really did have a bit change because you ended up in the United States.

Michelle: Right.

Sid: And you met a woman by the name of Francis Chapman that changed your life tell me about her.

Michelle: Yes I went to my boss I needed a change I went to the lady that I was working for at another of the very best performing arts schools in London and I was teaching dance and choreographing and I went to her and said “I just need to go to America awhile.” She said “Why don’t you go and stay with my friend Francis in Los Angles.” And I said “Well that’s okay with me you know can Francis pick me up from the airport?” And she did she was such a sweet and lovely lady and took me home to her house and 2 days later Francis was getting up and getting ready to go somewhere and I said “Where are you going?” And she said “Church.” And I said “Can I come?” She said “Sure why don’t you come along.” And I went with her and we went into “Church on the Way” it was the first time I’d ever been into a church before. And Sid all I can remember when I walked through the door I felt the most beautiful presence that I’ve every experienced in my life. I knew…you know I never used the word holy but I knew that when I walked in those doors and there was 100’s and even close to 1 or 2000 people with their hands lifted up singing praises to this invisible God. And as I walked thru the door I felt this totally and beautiful presence I began to cry because it touched me very deeply in my heart.

Sid: And you begin to hear a voice.

Michelle: Yes I heard the most gentle loving compassionate voice I had ever heard it was as if it was right in my heart this voice speaking right to my heart not to my head but to my heart. And He said “It’s alright Michelle you’re home now your home now.” And I was just overwhelmed with this sense I knew that it was Jesus. I knew Jesus the One that I cried out to 3 months earlier saying “Jesus if You’re real please help me.” That He had answered that cry and answered that prayer and He was coming to tell me “It’s alright you’re in the right place your home now.” And home was Him (Laughing.)

Sid: But then immediately you heard another voice.

Michelle: Yes I did it was almost like a fight going on you know this voice seemed to not be able to penetrate deep into my heart. This was a voice that spoke to my intellect if you like and I heard a harder voice speak to my mind saying “Don’t give in you’ll be a nothing you’ll be a nobody you’ll get lost in the crowd you’ll never be in the lime light again.” You know because I came from the entertainment industry and I heard this voice telling me all of the reasons why I shouldn’t surrender to Jesus why I shouldn’t surrender to love, this compassion. This voice this presence that filled my heart more than years and years of trying every other thing Jesus filled that void in my heart and I knew that I need to give my life to Him and let Him heal me.

Sid: You told me that you actually not only heard a voice but you felt a presence of God describe that.

Michelle: Light perfect light, lightness, peace, no worries, faith a sense of faith. But the presence of Jesus was enough to take care of everything that would worry me. And I can remember when I gave my heart to Him I said “Jesus I have tried everything I want to give my heart to You, I want to give my life to You I believe that You are the Son of God that gave the gift of righteousness to me, I believe that what You did for me laying Your life down, Your blood was enough to atone for my sin; take my sins away I accept what You did for me come and live in my heart.” And as I did that it was almost like a really strong shower from heaven got switched on in the heavenlies and I experienced being washed with light and life and love and I was never the same again.

Sid: Ah we’re out of time Michelle hold that thought. We’re going to find out how Michelle and Geoffrey got together in a very supernatural fashion and the miracles that have happened since.

Sid: My guest by way of telephone Geoffrey Cohen was raised in South Africa strong Orthodox Jewish background and he got to Israel was on a Kibbutz and a born again Christian had chutzpa chutzpa is a Hebrew word it means nerve it’s sort of what Paul had when he said “I’m not ashamed of the gospel” because it’s the power of God unto salvation no gospel no power. And this man even though he was in Israel was not intimidated shared the gospel planted a seed I mean Geoffrey was amazed when he found out that Jesus is Jewish. He literally thought to himself “Well why does so many Christians hate the Jewish people if Jesus is Jewish. Geoffrey it just didn’t compute did it.

Geoff: No not at all.

Sid: And then you went to Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem and all of a sudden the last thing in the world you expected to see you saw before your very eyes… describe what you saw.

Geoff: Well as I was saying I saw Jesus standing in front of me and just His presence is just I mean my words are very inadequate to describe. It was His presence was just so powerful and my first reflex action was to grab my friend who was traveling with me and say “Hey hey look look look there’s Jesus.” And as I turned to grab him I realized that he wasn’t seeing Jesus and neither were the people milling around the Arab market. And I realized that if they could see Him they would have immediately stopped I mean He was Jesus and…

Sid: How real did He look to you did He look like a vision or was it actually Him?

Geoff: No I didn’t know what a vision was being an Orthodox Jew an Orthodox Jewish background I didn’t know what a vision was I just knew that I saw Jesus nobody ever told me what a vision was. I didn’t know that I had had a vision until after I became until after I got saved so all I knew was I saw Jesus as real if not more real than any other person around me. But what struck me is that nobody else was seeing Him.

Sid: Now you told me about His eyes tell me again I want to hear that.

Geoff: Well His eyes were just like endless pools of water of course we know living water. And just perfect compassion perfect love and without me understanding any theology about who Jesus was I knew I was looking at eternity and that possibly He was the Messiah. And He actually appeared to me 3 times that was the first time and this is all at the same space of time by the Arab market.

Sid: But it was the 3 times in the same day or in…

Geoff: Three times within 5 minutes maybe 4.

Sid: But He said something to you that first time.

Geoff: Yeah He spoke the words Hineini to me which means “Here am I.” And He spoke it without opening His mouth.

Sid: What did that mean to you? What did the words mean to you?

Geoff: I knew that it meant “Here am I” because I learned Hebrew most of the time that I was there you know 7 years old. What it meant to me at the very least was that “Here am I I’m Jewish I’m a Jew.” I didn’t quite understand that He was the Messiah up to that point but that when I looked into His eyes and I saw eternity in His eyes I thought “Surely this must be the Messiah” but I didn’t know what to do about it. And then He appeared to me again a second time just standing maybe 15’ to the right from where He was the first time. And when He looked at me it was so life changing, it was so powerful, it was so awesome I’d never seen or experienced such a love and total acceptance in my life. And then He disappeared after appearing to me the second time the second time He didn’t say anything He just looked at me but one look from God can change you forever and it’s changed me forever that was 16 years ago I haven’t been the same man for 16 years.

Sid: Tell what changed occurred immediately in your life when you received Jesus as your Messiah and Lord.

Geoff: Well I always had at least 1 girlfriend or more and I was involved in promiscuous lifestyle you know just like a lot of people who don’t know the Lord of my generation. And you know I was do things like you know drink with my friends and stuff like that and maybe occasionally smoke a joint to some people sounds “Oh how could you do that?” But that was pretty normal in those days it wasn’t as if I was heavily addicted to anything accept maybe fornication that which was not good obviously. But when I got saved when I came to know the Lord without anyone telling me “You have got to stop doing these things, you’ve got to stop drinking you’re not to smoke pot any more you know don’t have sex out of marriage any more no one told me anything but God immediately without knowing what the Bible said about it God just took those desires out of my heart.”

Sid: Now I don’t know the answer to this question many of the questions I do but “You got to the United States and you met a Jewish woman by the name Michelle from England.”

Geoff: Yes.

Sid: How did you know that you were supposed to marry her?

Geoff: Well she was one of the most ? on fire people that I’d met for the Lord…you know as a believer in Jesus and I was such a radical Christian that I could scare off most people but I didn’t scare her off in fact she was as zealous as I was (Laughing.) And the Lord drew us together there was just a witness in the spirit and she had a very strong prophetic call in her life which which I could just tell. In fact we’d be in meetings in Church on the Way we were members of that church that’s where I met her at a single’s group I think was on a Monday night.

Sid: That’s Jack Hayford’s Church.

Geoff: Jack Hayford’s Church yeah yeah and she was just so zealous for the Lord and on fire and we actually on our first date we actually went to preach in Westwood in Los Angles and this was the test if she was from God for me that she’d be willing to preach on the streets without anything just to stand up and preach (Laughing.) But that was our first I guess that’s what I’d use to do do is I would just stand up and preach.

Sid: Yeah you like that boldness don’t you?

Geoff: Yes (Laughing.)

Sid: That’s I mean if it wasn’t for boldness you wouldn’t have known the Lord. I’ll tell you what Geoff if you would put your wife Michelle on the telephone I’d like to find out a bit about her background. So I’ve asked Geoff to put Michelle Cohen.

Michelle: “Hello.”

Sid: Hi Michelle I understand that you went most of your life and didn’t even know that you were Jewish.

Michelle: That’s true that is actually true.

Sid: How did that happen?

Michelle: Well I was raised in a completely Gentile environment at my home and my mother was not raised in a Jewish home herself although her father was Jewish. And when he was a very young man about 16 – 17 years old he wanted to marry a young lady who wasn’t Jewish. And when he announced that to his family they cut him off from his family. And so from that time on I think there was a lot of hurt and pain about her that whole Jewish family background and it wasn’t something that my Mum talked about very often

Sid: So how did you find out you were Jewish?

Michelle: Well I began to put 2 and 2 together one day as I got older and gradually began to ask her more and more questions and more probing questions it wasn’t enough just to hear that it’s a sweet family get-together stories I wanted to really know “Where did I come from?” You know my ancestry, what was this name Goldberg I knew that that meant something and she would begin to you know open up a little bit more as the years went by. And it wasn’t about 22 that she began to describe some painful stories of her own in England people would taunt her and ridicule and give her a hard time for having a Jewish name and being Jewish.

Sid: How did you feel when you found out you were Jewish?

Michelle: I felt immediately a sense of tremendous connection to something that was much greater and bigger than I’d ever known. I felt confused a little bit because I didn’t understand why something so great and wonderful hadn’t really been brought up in our family even to discuss openly but it made me curious to know more. And it did some- thing in my heart that you know made me maybe prepared for the future when I would meet Geoff.

Sid: Well let me ask you “Were you raised as a Christian?

Michelle: No not at all no I mean it wasn’t a bad family they were wonderful parents my Dad was this wonderful man my mother was wonderful but we never went to church. We never discussed God we didn’t do anything religious.

Sid: Well you were a very very successful dancer did your parents have a background like that how did you become a dancer?

Michelle: Well my Dad is artistic he paints beautifully he does wonderful oil paintings and various other artistic work. And he loved music and we grow up listening to great music classical jazz and all kinds of things. And from an early age I just had a inclination towards putting movement to music I actually went to gymnastics and I was part of the British Team for a few years. But after I finished with that I knew that dancing was the thing that I wanted to do.

Sid: But why did you get involved in the occult the New Age?

Michelle: Well in the kind of environment of the performing school that I went to it was a fulltime performing arts college.

Sid: Like it was it a very prominent one?

Michelle: Yes it was in London there are several really good ones in London and this was one of those. And I was about 17 I’d finished high school and I was already having not grown up with that much of a moral rules and regulations in the home I wanted to you know go on a discovery as young girls often do at that age instead of have boy friends and this kind of thing. And what actually happened was as I was going into the performing arts college and I’d have boyfriends and we then we’d break up. And maybe it’s like this for a lot of your girls that’s out there but the heart ache that can be caused in the inside is sometimes more than can really be you know shared with someone. The fact that you’ve joined yourself with somebody and then you breakup you know and you’ve kind of you… Sid: Michelle I’m sorry if you’ll hold that thought we’ll pick up on tomorrow’s broadcast.