Do you consider these as variants and if so, which one is the variant? Is it the "Unpunched" as that's how it originally comes before the stock clerk punches it to hang it on the shelf?

12-08-2012

bigbarada

I find that I obsess too much about the condition of the card if it's unpunched. If it's punched then I already kind of assume that it's flawed, so some of the other minor flaws don't bother me as much.

The best way for me to keep my obsessive-compulsive instincts under control is to only keep flawed and imperfect items in my collection.

Besides, it's easier and cheaper to display the figures if they are punched, since you just need a thumbtack and not a Star Case.

12-08-2012

JediTricks

But do you see it as a true card variant?

I don't, only because all the cards were originally manufactured with the punches intact. To me a variant has to be a fork in the road, either through a common manufacturing change or through a conscious choice. That's my argument for why punched/unpunched isn't a variation but rather a condition change with TVC.

That differs from the stickers, the low-tack stickers like "Win this Darth Maul nobody wants!" and "Get White Boba Fett in the mail (eventually)!", some figures were manufactured at a time when the stickers were intentionally applied to cards and then ran a second time where the stickers were intentionally left off, which is a true variant. (It's a risky variant to invest in since stickers are easy to remove/reapply to other cards, but it's a variant none the less.)

12-08-2012

SirSteve

We also have the foil cards... for db purposes, I am trying to figure out if the "Unpunched" or "Punched" should be considered the "main" item.

The way I think of it is it could be:

The Unpunched could be the main item as that's the way it originally comes from the manufacturer.

or

The Punched could be the main item as it's the most common.

Or maybe it should not be in the db like that and leave it up to the collector...

Thoughts?

12-10-2012

Bel-Cam Jos

I'd only take that as a value issue, like yellowed bubbles or dented corners. It's not a different card, but a "complete" one, to me. Since I open mine, it's a non-issue regardless in my case (action figure puns always intended :rolleyes: ).

12-11-2012

Mr. JabbaJohnL

I do think it should be differentiated since it matters to many carded collectors. The first wave of TVC - the ESB figures - shipped punched, though later carry-forwards of some of those figures shipped unpunched, so that could complicate matters. But I agree that in most cases it's more a "condition" rather than a "variation," so if there's a way to treat it as such - with unpunched being considered the "better" condition - then I think that's the way to go. So I suppose that means making unpunched the main/default option where it is applicable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediTricks

That differs from the stickers, the low-tack stickers like "Win this Darth Maul nobody wants!" and "Get White Boba Fett in the mail (eventually)!", some figures were manufactured at a time when the stickers were intentionally applied to cards and then ran a second time where the stickers were intentionally left off, which is a true variant. (It's a risky variant to invest in since stickers are easy to remove/reapply to other cards, but it's a variant none the less.)

With the stickers, there's the second component of the order form included in the bubble - the stickers can indeed be removed or replaced, but the order form is the true sign of which version of the figure it is, which could come in handy with things like the Gamorrean Guard, which shipped with the rocket-firing Fett offer in 2010, no sticker or form at all in 2011, and the Darth Maul giveaway in 2012 (and then whichever one comes out in 2013, though I have a feeling it will just be the Darth Maul one again).

12-11-2012

bigbarada

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediTricks

But do you see it as a true card variant?

No, not at all. It's just a piece of cardboard that was intended to be removed in order to display the toy for sale. So it's no more a variant than "unopened" and "opened" would be considered variants.

12-12-2012

JediTricks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. JabbaJohnL

I do think it should be differentiated since it matters to many carded collectors. The first wave of TVC - the ESB figures - shipped punched, though later carry-forwards of some of those figures shipped unpunched, so that could complicate matters. But I agree that in most cases it's more a "condition" rather than a "variation," so if there's a way to treat it as such - with unpunched being considered the "better" condition - then I think that's the way to go. So I suppose that means making unpunched the main/default option where it is applicable.

The first few waves of TVC figures were shipped punched by accident though, they were manufactured unpunched but the first wave the chinese factory vendor misunderstood the intention and cut the punches too deep, then removed them, and in the second and I think third wave the punches were left in but shook loose from still being cut too deeply.

Quote:

With the stickers, there's the second component of the order form included in the bubble - the stickers can indeed be removed or replaced, but the order form is the true sign of which version of the figure it is, which could come in handy with things like the Gamorrean Guard, which shipped with the rocket-firing Fett offer in 2010, no sticker or form at all in 2011, and the Darth Maul giveaway in 2012 (and then whichever one comes out in 2013, though I have a feeling it will just be the Darth Maul one again).

The thing is that those inserts are in an open section, it may be possible to slip an insert in or remove one without undoing the bubble - I haven't checked to be sure. But sticker/non-sticker and form/non-form of course also opens up the possibility of "sticker without form" type variants, both true and faked, which would be one-offs unless there was a short run of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbarada

No, not at all. It's just a piece of cardboard that was intended to be removed in order to display the toy for sale. So it's no more a variant than "unopened" and "opened" would be considered variants.

That's how I feel as well, it's entirely condition, not significantly different than if a corner were bent or a bubble dented.

12-12-2012

bigbarada

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediTricks

That's how I feel as well, it's entirely condition, not significantly different than if a corner were bent or a bubble dented.

Yeah, if it's something that can be created at the consumer level, then it's not a true variant.

Plus, how do we know that the card wasn't originally punched, but someone simply took a punchtab from another figure and replaced it on the figure they are trying to sell? With the new cardbacks, this should be fairly easy to do.

Heck, I could probably go to Walmart or TRU anytime and collect up a bunch of punchtabs, take them home and make most of my punched MOC figures into unpunched MOC figures.

12-12-2012

JediTricks

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbarada

Plus, how do we know that the card wasn't originally punched, but someone simply took a punchtab from another figure and replaced it on the figure they are trying to sell? With the new cardbacks, this should be fairly easy to do.

Heck, I could probably go to Walmart or TRU anytime and collect up a bunch of punchtabs, take them home and make most of my punched MOC figures into unpunched MOC figures.

This would be very easy to verify though because the original punches have small sections that are not cut, so the punch is contiguous with the rest of the cardback paper (front and back). Jamming a different punch in probably wouldn't line up, but even if it did the material would be broken there.