Just because I defended the Colts against what i felt to be false claims does not make me a fan of that team. For what its worth, I also admire Drew Brees, Carson Palmer, and Philip Rivers.

But its not according to me that the Patriots cheated in the 2003 & 2004 post season, according to Bill Belichick the videotaping policy had been running since he had become head coach in 2000. As as a matter of fact, yes the did cheat to defeat Indianapolis in those seasons, but the same goes for their 3-point super bowl victories.

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The Patriots did not cheat. They broke a rule. There is a difference and you clearly aren't intelligent enough to understand that.

Why did you go 6-10? Because even with videotaping you were not a very good team. It gives you a major advantage but not enough to go 16-0 and win every game 49-0. No, but it is enough of an advantage to make an average team an elite.

I've answered this many times but the reason the Pats went 18-1 was a combination of already established aquired talent such as Moss & Thomas, combined with knowledged minds aided by cheating for all those years. They also won a game they technically lost to Baltimore, and played in the weakest division the NFL has seen in years. That is why they went 18-1 last year.

And in response to the memo released in 2006, the rule has been the same for years, but the memo was prompted from rumors of the pats pushing the envelope with the videotaping, having their tape taken away before they began filming against GB, etc. So yes there were knowlingly cheating for prior super Bowl years, the memo was a reminder, not a new rule.

And yes they have been cheating since 2000, Roger Goodell confirmed this is what Bill Belichick had told him, and Matt Walsh's tapes even being from SB years had done nothing but confirm what Belichick admited. So yes, even since 2000.

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You really should STFU when you don't know what you are talking about.

1) The Patriots weren't cheating. They never viewed the tapes during the game. Also, as NUMEROUS coaches such as Cowher, Johnson and Reeves came out and said, its impossible to digest 30 minutes of football in less than 15 minutes.

2) Teams change their signals during the games. The tapes were used to learn the tendencies of the COACHES the Pats were playing. It was just another form of scouting. A form that the above mentioned coaches said has been a commonplace in the NFL.

3) The Pats went 6-10 that year because the talent they had sucked.

4) The Patriots did NOT have tapes taken from them prior to the GB game in 2006.

5) While the "memo" was a reminder, there was no specified punishment for it and if you are really that stupid to believe that its worse to do that than it is to tamper with a free agent (SF, NYJ), or cheat the salary cap (SF, DEN) then you are truly not even worth of talking to about football because you will have proven that you aren't intelligent enough to have that sort of conversation.

If Jimmie Johnson and the Cowboys cheated in the 1990's that wouldnt surprise me and yes they should be punished. Matt Walsh would certainly claim others do it, why go out of his way to mnake himself look like the only one?

Spying is certainly different then an on-filed rule. The NFL never tolerated spying, the Patriots have been the only team to do it and were caught. I the NFL knew of anyone else doing it and had proof, they would have done the same thing to them that they did to the Pats, facts are there is no proof of any other team doing this besides the Patriots.

As far as the Steelers, what is the proof they have? Where are the lab tests and confessions? But if they did do it, it is wrong but not technically cheating. The Patriots knowingly broke a big rule, the Steelers might (waiting for proof on that one) have taken an unfair advantage but did not break a rule. Both are wrong. But the Pats are the only team caught, and the team of the two that broke the rules.

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The NFL has, most certainly, tolerated spying. Its why they didn't punish Shanahan for employing Lip-readers with binoculars to read the opposing coach's lips. How about you STFU and check your facts before posting from now on?

You really should STFU when you don't know what you are talking about.

1) The Patriots weren't cheating. They never viewed the tapes during the game. Also, as NUMEROUS coaches such as Cowher, Johnson and Reeves came out and said, its impossible to digest 30 minutes of football in less than 15 minutes.

2) Teams change their signals during the games. The tapes were used to learn the tendencies of the COACHES the Pats were playing. It was just another form of scouting. A form that the above mentioned coaches said has been a commonplace in the NFL.

3) The Pats went 6-10 that year because the talent they had sucked.

4) The Patriots did NOT have tapes taken from them prior to the GB game in 2006.

5) While the "memo" was a reminder, there was no specified punishment for it and if you are really that stupid to believe that its worse to do that than it is to tamper with a free agent (SF, NYJ), or cheat the salary cap (SF, DEN) then you are truly not even worth of talking to about football because you will have proven that you aren't intelligent enough to have that sort of conversation.

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The Patriots did have their camera man Matt Estralia (mis-spelled im sure) have his tape taken away and asked to leave Lambeau Field, he simply decided to tape from the tunnel instead, now that's dedication the the value his spying gained for the team.

Just because the Patriots said they didnt use the tapes during the games does not make it the truth. Remember, your taking the word of a team that knowingly broke the rule and then lied about their interpretation. But they certainly would not go to such lengths and risk so much if the benifit was not major, and it was.

These numorus (3 coaches) you have mentioned does not represent the majority of the league. One of them might have cheated himself so he'll defend it. Others would not want to get on the bad side of Roger Goodell who's been hell-bent on sweeping it under the rug. The opinions of a handfull of individuals who's opinions could be infuenced by many reasons, can not play down or disprove the obvious. The Pariots knew many plays before they came and what my friends was a major advantage.

Also, knowingly breaking the rules, and using technology to secretly videotape other coaches signals, jam opponents radio frequencies, is certainly cheating. You were correct in stating that they were breaking the rules, but in so doing they were in the process of cheating.

As far as the Denver situation, if anything is to ever be proven, of course they should be punished. But reading lips and using binoculars is using the naked eye, not technilogy. The binoculors is the issue and thats bad but nothing near the level of videotaping. Cheating the salary cap is bad, that should also be punished. But thats aiding you in gaining players you otherwise might not have. The Patriots knew the plays coming, and messed with other teams radio signals, that is a much bigger advantage and they certainly capatalized off of this extensive cheating by winning 3 super bowls they otherwise would have lost.

The Patriots did have their camera man Matt Estralia (mis-spelled im sure) have his tape taken away and asked to leave Lambeau Field, he simply decided to tape from the tunnel instead, now that's dedication the the value his spying gained for the team.

Just because the Patriots said they didnt use the tapes during the games does not make it the truth. Remember, your taking the word of a team that knowingly broke the rule and then lied about their interpretation. But they certainly would not go to such lengths and risk so much if the benifit was not major, and it was.

These numorus (3 coaches) you have mentioned does not represent the majority of the league. One of them might have cheated himself so he'll defend it. Others would not want to get on the bad side of Roger Goodell who's been hell-bent on sweeping it under the rug. The opinions of a handfull of individuals who's opinions could be infuenced by many reasons, can not play down or disprove the obvious. The Pariots knew many plays before they came and what my friends was a major advantage.

Also, knowingly breaking the rules, and using technology to secretly videotape other coaches signals, jam opponents radio frequencies, is certainly cheating. You were correct in stating that they were breaking the rules, but in so doing they were in the process of cheating.

As far as the Denver situation, if anything is to ever be proven, of course they should be punished. But reading lips and using binoculars is using the naked eye, not technilogy. The binoculors is the issue and thats bad but nothing near the level of videotaping. Cheating the salary cap is bad, that should also be punished. But thats aiding you in gaining players you otherwise might not have. The Patriots knew the plays coming, and messed with other teams radio signals, that is a much bigger advantage and they certainly capatalized off of this extensive cheating by winning 3 super bowls they otherwise would have lost.

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If you truly believe that the use of videotape was in and of itself enough to explain the Pats' three SB rings, then there is truly no point in attempting to actually have a rational argument with you.

If you truly believe that the use of videotape was in and of itself enough to explain the Pats' three SB rings, then there is truly no point in attempting to actually have a rational argument with you.

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Was it "in and of itself" the sole reason for their 3 Super Bowl victories, no. But was it enough of an edge that they were able to squeak by in 3 games? Absolutley.

They also won a game they technically lost to Baltimore, and played in the weakest division the NFL has seen in years. That is why they went 18-1 last year.

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Just because something gets repeated often does not make it true. The Patriots defeated the following playoff teams: the Chargers, Cowboys, Redskins, Colts, Eagles, Steelers, and Giants. They also beat the Browns, who would have made the playoffs if not for collusion between the Colts and Titans, and the Bills twice, who were 8-6 gainst the rest of the NFL. The 'easy schedule' argument is a fallacy. Oh, and technically as well as every other way, the Patriots won and the Ravens lost.

The Patriots knew the plays coming, and messed with other teams radio signals, that is a much bigger advantage and they certainly capatalized off of this extensive cheating by winning 3 super bowls they otherwise would have lost.

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Now you are repeating hearsay and wild speculation and not only repeating it as fact, but also jumping to unfounded conclusions based on those allegations. It's really the worst type of pretzel logic there is.

The Patriots did have their camera man Matt Estralia (mis-spelled im sure) have his tape taken away and asked to leave Lambeau Field, he simply decided to tape from the tunnel instead, now that's dedication the the value his spying gained for the team.

Just because the Patriots said they didnt use the tapes during the games does not make it the truth. Remember, your taking the word of a team that knowingly broke the rule and then lied about their interpretation. But they certainly would not go to such lengths and risk so much if the benifit was not major, and it was.

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Its not a matter of the Patriots saying it. GOODELL said it didn't happen. Numerous coaches have come out and said that its impossible to tape all the people sending in signals and break it down as to what the play would be and get that to the QB before the headset shuts off at 15 seconds on the play clock. Also, there is NO video playing equipment allowed in the coaches' booth, the lockerrooms, or the sidelines. How would the Pats have viewed the tapes?

These numorus (3 coaches) you have mentioned does not represent the majority of the league. One of them might have cheated himself so he'll defend it. Others would not want to get on the bad side of Roger Goodell who's been hell-bent on sweeping it under the rug. The opinions of a handfull of individuals who's opinions could be infuenced by many reasons, can not play down or disprove the obvious. The Pariots knew many plays before they came and what my friends was a major advantage.

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I listed 3, but there were plenty of others including Bill Cowher, Marty Schottenheimer and Mike Shanahan.

No, the Patriots didn't know many plays before they were called. What they KNEW was what a coach's tendencies were. And that is the difference that you don't seem to be able to comprehend.

Also, knowingly breaking the rules, and using technology to secretly videotape other coaches signals, jam opponents radio frequencies, is certainly cheating. You were correct in stating that they were breaking the rules, but in so doing they were in the process of cheating.

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The Patriots were NOT secretly video-taping. It was down out in the open.

Also, moron, the Patriots were not once said to have jammed opponents frequencies. As I pointed out to you in another post, there are other reasons why frequencies get "jammed". What you fail to acknowledge is that the NFL is who controls the frequencies. Its the NFL who controls the set-up of the head-sets prior to the game. The Patriots have no knowledge of who will get what frequency.

As far as the Denver situation, if anything is to ever be proven, of course they should be punished. But reading lips and using binoculars is using the naked eye, not technilogy. The binoculors is the issue and thats bad but nothing near the level of videotaping. Cheating the salary cap is bad, that should also be punished. But thats aiding you in gaining players you otherwise might not have. The Patriots knew the plays coming, and messed with other teams radio signals, that is a much bigger advantage and they certainly capatalized off of this extensive cheating by winning 3 super bowls they otherwise would have lost.

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What do you mean "As far as the Denver situation, if anything is to ever be proven," Jesus man. Do you homework. Denver already was punished for the salary cap violations.

You keep saying these BS lies that the Patriots knew what plays were coming and they didn't. You keep lying and saying that they messed with the other teams radio signals and that's not true either.

Its amazing how you sit there and claim truth yet everything coming out of your mouth is a lie.

Actually based off of facts, proof, and admission. If you want to have it outlined better, visit the link I gave in the other post.

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I did visit the link you gave in the other post - and gave a fairly detailed response to the very many inaccuracies and falsehoods in the article.

The Patriots have been videotaping since 2000, they freely admitted that. Again, you are confusing the concept of a fact with opinions, rumors, and speculation. If you have an opinion or a theory, that's fine - but don't call it a fact if it isn't a fact.

If I were a Colts fan, I'd be pissed too. One Super Bowl win in the last seven years and that one was handed to them by a piss poor second half performance by the Patriots in the 2006 AFCCG.

That gift with a bow on it aside, they should have AT LEAST two others; the window with Manning is closing fast Colts fans, it's all downhill from here.

The most comical comment in that thread was they are still a feared team; really, and by whom?

Priceless.

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Yeah it really sucks, I wasn't expecting the window to be closing for at least a few more seasons. I still have hope that we have a few more runs at a Super Bowl in them.

edit to add: I just read a few comments in this thread about the Pats video taping, I don't believe for one second that the Pats gained any advantage in anyway shape or form from that. The only rule they broke was taping from the field, all teams video tape so any team in the league would basicaly have the exact same advantage as the Pats did.