If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by -God of War-

Milanv/s Barcelona

Lightning truly struck at San Siro tonight!

Okay, I'll admit it - I never expected that kind of performance from Milan and yeah, really saw such a miserable Barcelona.
Yes, the first goal is highly debatable and yes, knowing Barca, I won't be surprised to see them complain about that and the poor pitch condition but still...what a performance by Milan.

What's truly surprising in this match was the lack of attempts by Barcelona; with probably only Iniesta's shot at 75' sending some chills down Abbiati's spine. But first and foremost, what should be saluted is Milan's fantastic pressing after their first goal which made Barca's limp comeback look extremely tame and even better, resulted in an extremely crucial second goal.

In the first half, Milan defended well and tried to operate on counters. Pazzini dropped really deep and Boateng & Muntari did amazing efforts. Barca had possession but it was highly sterile. Well, in the first 20 minutes, their pressing disrupted all Milan counters but gradually, they started weakening against certain counters; with El Sharaawy often so close but in vain.

Also, given the slow pace that Barca instilled with their possession, I could analyzed the tactic that Allegri used to block Messi and it was highly interesting to say the least; better than a "gun" So, when Messi dropped onto midfield, he was man-marked by one Milan player and zone-marked by either a winger or midfielder. If he tried playing as No.9, Milan centre-backs opted to remain close to him and play the offside line if Pedro/Iniesta made a run. Still, I was surprised that it worked to that kind of perfection.

Frankly, I think Barca players grew over-confident of their force and thought in first-half, that despite the slow pace & rythm, their possession spell will do the job sooner or later in second-half. I guess, they couldn't be wrong. And with most players in a really off-day, the cost is indeed highly paid.

Coming on the controversial first goal, it should have been disallowed but the handball pass wasn't scandalous as it was clearly involuntary. The Milan-shot was deflected by a Barca player onto Zapata's hand; who inadvertently turned into an assist for K.P.Boateng. It wasn't something like Henry's Hand of Frog against Ireland but still, the hand "expanded his surface of intervention" and was decisive in that action. Oh well... it was accepted. Perhaps, a karma due to Barca's overconfidence in the first half.

The second goal is awesome counter-attack though - with El Sharaawy' assist perfectly done for Muntari's volley. Boateng and Muntari are clearly the 2 MOTM for me. Not only did they score but they were arguably the 2 best Milan players in 1st half imo as they had incredible work-rate as they defended and even attacked a lot. Excellent contribution and devotion to their team.

Overall, Barca players are clearly in jeopardy after this 2-0 defeat. Certainly, there's a return leg at Camp Nou - and I don't think they do such a woeful match twice but the advantage is a comfy one for Milan. Perhaps, a Milan victory isn't as a big upset as they remain a CL Monumentous Giant but winning without conceding goal against Barca, that I certainly didn't see... Did they finally pay their over-reliance on Messi as me, ReLax talked some months ago and as feared, Pedro/Fabregas/Sanchez didn't step-up on that day? It does seem the case right now. If Milan scores one goal at Camp Nou and plays an equally good match like this one, I think we could well see the biggest shocker of this Knockout Round.

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Escorpiius

Lightning truly struck at San Siro tonight!

Okay, I'll admit it - I never expected that kind of performance from Milan and yeah, really saw such a miserable Barcelona.
Yes, the first goal is highly debatable and yes, knowing Barca, I won't be surprised to see them complain about that and the poor pitch condition but still...what a performance by Milan.

What's truly surprising in this match was the lack of attempts by Barcelona; with probably only Iniesta's shot at 75' sending some chills down Abbiati's spine. But first and foremost, what should be saluted is Milan's fantastic pressing after their first goal which made Barca's limp comeback look extremely tame and even better, resulted in an extremely crucial second goal.

In the first half, Milan defended well and tried to operate on counters. Pazzini dropped really deep and Boateng & Muntari did amazing efforts. Barca had possession but it was highly sterile. Well, in the first 20 minutes, their pressing disrupted all Milan counters but gradually, they started weakening against certain counters; with El Sharaawy often so close but in vain.

Also, given the slow pace that Barca instilled with their possession, I could analyzed the tactic that Allegri used to block Messi and it was highly interesting to say the least; better than a "gun" So, when Messi dropped onto midfield, he was man-marked by one Milan player and zone-marked by either a winger or midfielder. If he tried playing as No.9, Milan centre-backs opted to remain close to him and play the offside line if Pedro/Iniesta made a run. Still, I was surprised that it worked to that kind of perfection.

Frankly, I think Barca players grew over-confident of their force and thought in first-half, that despite the slow pace & rythm, their possession spell will do the job sooner or later in second-half. I guess, they couldn't be wrong. And with most players in a really off-day, the cost is indeed highly paid.

Coming on the controversial first goal, it should have been disallowed but the handball pass wasn't scandalous as it was clearly involuntary. The Milan-shot was deflected by a Barca player onto Zapata's hand; who inadvertently turned into an assist for K.P.Boateng. It wasn't something like Henry's Hand of Frog against Ireland but still, the hand "expanded his surface of intervention" and was decisive in that action. Oh well... it was accepted. Perhaps, a karma due to Barca's overconfidence in the first half.

The second goal is awesome counter-attack though - with El Sharaawy' assist perfectly done for Muntari's volley. Boateng and Muntari are clearly the 2 MOTM for me. Not only did they score but they were arguably the 2 best Milan players in 1st half imo as they had incredible work-rate as they defended and even attacked a lot. Excellent contribution and devotion to their team.

Overall, Barca players are clearly in jeopardy after this 2-0 defeat. Certainly, there's a return leg at Camp Nou - and I don't think they do such a woeful match twice but the advantage is a comfy one for Milan. Perhaps, a Milan victory isn't as a big upset as they remain a CL Monumentous Giant but winning without conceding goal against Barca, that I certainly didn't see... Did they finally pay their over-reliance on Messi as me, ReLax talked some months ago and as feared, Pedro/Fabregas/Sanchez didn't step-up on that day? It does seem the case right now. If Milan scores one goal at Camp Nou and plays an equally good match like this one, I think we could well see the biggest shocker of this Knockout Round.

Re: General Football Debates!

I'm still busy with some studying, but I though I'd drop in and give my 2 cent.

Yes, the first goal is highly debatable and yes, knowing Barca, I won't be surprised to see them complain about that and the poor pitch condition but still...what a performance by Milan.

To be fair here, the media will ask them about it and they will respond, which obviously most people wouldn't like to hear.

I remember a month back I said it to one guy who said Barcelona will thrash Milan, that Milan at San Siro are difficult to defeat and Barcelona doesn't hold the best of results there, not to forget that we have faced them 4 times in a year, so they'd know what we are capable of. Barcelona after the winter break seem to step off the gas a bit. Milan were clearly the better team.

Milan did a lot of good defending in the midfield and disposing of Barcelona. They pressed hard and didn't give any breathing space to them. Messi was completely lost and in a long time I seen a game of Iniesta, which he didn't perform too well. Fabregas was confused. Are defence as usually remains overrated. There wasn't any other forward stepping up to the plate. Milan capitalize and got the result. I do hope we can turn this around at the Nou Camp, but it'll be difficult to happen. At least after the 5 day date with Madrid we get at least a week to rest before our CL fixture.

However the second goal by Milan was a beauty with the build up play leading to it.

Re: General Football Debates!

I'm still busy with some studying, but I though I'd drop in and give my 2 cent.

To be fair here, the media will ask them about it and they will respond, which obviously most people wouldn't like to hear.

I remember a month back I said it to one guy who said Barcelona will thrash Milan, that Milan at San Siro are difficult to defeat and Barcelona doesn't hold the best of results there, not to forget that we have faced them 4 times in a year, so they'd know what we are capable of. Barcelona after the winter break seem to step off the gas a bit. Milan were clearly the better team.

Milan did a lot of good defending in the midfield and disposing of Barcelona. They pressed hard and didn't give any breathing space to them. Messi was completely lost and in a long time I seen a game of Iniesta, which he didn't perform too well. Fabregas was confused. Are defence as usually remains overrated. There wasn't any other forward stepping up to the plate. Milan capitalize and got the result. I do hope we can turn this around at the Nou Camp, but it'll be difficult to happen. At least after the 5 day date with Madrid we get at least a week to rest before our CL fixture.

However the second goal by Milan was a beauty with the build up play leading to it.

Congrats to Milan and their supporters.

I wonder if Tito's absent has something to do with it...... this result rocked my day

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by ReLax -

His presence maybe, but Roura was taking all orders from him on the phone.

Not sure how well this long distance management works.... by the looks of it it works awful :3 I blame Cancer this time... I can't simply accept this defeat... AC Milan was the better team but only that day I will never understand

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Grim

Not sure how well this long distance management works.... by the looks of it it works awful :3 I blame Cancer this time... I can't simply accept this defeat... AC Milan was the better team but only that day I will never understand

This is how they are without Pep. The team is lacking motivation. Pep was a lot more demanding and fearing type. He benched Pique most of last season as his form dipped and made him do a lot of work during training. We almost did make a league comeback (eventually lost to Madrid and lead extended from there) and went to CL S-final. This season we may actually be knocked out before the QF. The CDR depends on the next encounter with Madrid which is in the air and Madrid will want desperately.

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by ReLax -

This is how they are without Pep. The team is lacking motivation. Pep was a lot more demanding and fearing type. He benched Pique most of last season as his form dipped and made him do a lot of work during training. We almost did make a league comeback (eventually lost to Madrid and lead extended from there) and went to CL S-final. This season we may actually be knocked out before the QF. The CDR depends on the next encounter with Madrid which is in the air and Madrid will want desperately.

This season started as no one would expect, but now all this effort does fade away after Tito's leave. I do agree with you... but again this is a team that actually can win the games without a manager. Roura's reaction and over all he shows to charecter...

and something positive, word fight this time between Pele and Neymars agent.. I actually lol'ed at this and It's true
"If Pele played nowadays, he would be inferior to Neymar. In his time, all the defenders were slow and the fitness levels were not the same."

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Grim

This season started as no one would expect, but now all this effort does fade away after Tito's leave. I do agree with you... but again this is a team that actually can win the games without a manager. Roura's reaction and over all he shows to charecter...

and something positive, word fight this time between Pele and Neymars agent.. I actually lol'ed at this and It's true
"If Pele played nowadays, he would be inferior to Neymar. In his time, all the defenders were slow and the fitness levels were not the same."

Nope. They still need a manager no matter.

lol Pele actually said something negative about Neymar. Regardless, Pele would do just fine in this time, there were some advantages and disadvantages in both time frames.

Re: General Football Debates!

I know it sound naive, I was half serious with all this... I just used to enjoy beer with opposite team fans and talk about bouth sides without any problem or dissrespect ... to game we all love so much.

Originally Posted by Grim

I think it's only anti-social kids that burst hate and talk shit ... I couldn't come up with better explanation

I don't agree about the fact that it's all anti-social kids and that it's all about Messi v/s Ronaldo. For me, the rivalry between Barcelona and Madrid have way too deep roots and that the hate will always be present.

Sure, they'll reunite for the common cause of Spain's success when time comes but at the end, they'll be foes after that. Some rivalries have connection that are too deep and profound.

Sure, nowadays, Madrid/Barcelona have been more about the fight of supermacy, or about 2 philosophies of football or between the 2 best players in football planet. But still, these clubs would have remain enemies even without that. Perhaps, nowadays generation doesn't really care about the war that occurred before but still certain events remain fresh in memories like the pig head onto Figo, the money chants against Eto'o, the 'excessive' title celebration of Ronaldinho, Eto'o & Co., the 2-6 faceslap at Bernabeu and so on...Moreover, the older generations of fans do transmit this hate cycle to newer generation. All these have made these games always hotly contested and this fact will never change... And it's true for all of the rivalries I've named (and some I've even missed...).

Originally Posted by Grim

And something positive, word fight this time between Pele and Neymars agent.. I actually lol'ed at this and It's true
"If Pele played nowadays, he would be inferior to Neymar. In his time, all the defenders were slow and the fitness levels were not the same."

There were also lots of disadvantages at that time that would make it really complicated for Neymar to succeed in that time. I mean, would Neymar be as fit if he traveled in road trains instead of his luxurious planes and Audi? Would he dribble as well on a poor soil pitch cause at that time, you could find more grass in a cow's den than a football ground?

And there are lots of elements like that. As ReLax said, there were some advantages and disadvantages in both time frames and we can't compare players from different time frames.

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Escorpiius

I don't agree about the fact that it's all anti-social kids and that it's all about Messi v/s Ronaldo. For me, the rivalry between Barcelona and Madrid have way too deep roots and that the hate will always be present.

Sure, they'll reunite for the common cause of Spain's success when time comes but at the end, they'll be foes after that. Some rivalries have connection that are too deep and profound.

Sure, nowadays, Madrid/Barcelona have been more about the fight of supermacy, or about 2 philosophies of football or between the 2 best players in football planet. But still, these clubs would have remain enemies even without that. Perhaps, nowadays generation doesn't really care about the war that occurred before but still certain events remain fresh in memories like the pig head onto Figo, the money chants against Eto'o, the 'excessive' title celebration of Ronaldinho, Eto'o & Co., the 2-6 faceslap at Bernabeu and so on...Moreover, the older generations of fans do transmit this hate cycle to newer generation. All these have made these games always hotly contested and this fact will never change... And it's true for all of the rivalries I've named (and some I've even missed...).

There were also lots of disadvantages at that time that would make it really complicated for Neymar to succeed in that time. I mean, would Neymar be as fit if he traveled in road trains instead of his luxurious planes and Audi? Would he dribble as well on a poor soil pitch cause at that time, you could find more grass in a cow's den than a football ground?

And there are lots of elements like that. As ReLax said, there were some advantages and disadvantages in both time frames and we can't compare players from different time frames.

I used to have Russian girlfriend and she was fan of Zenit.. and all I needed to know is that Zenit > all as rivals I would say Zenit > Spartak

as for RM / Barca I will agree but look at all those ****'s on the internet who don't even speak or ever been in Spain... where does theyr hate come from? They don't have anything to do with Spanish/Catalan history .. anon's full of pride and ignorance ... I love Real Madird **** your club mine is better, Barcelona are divers, cheaters, girls, Pep didn't do anything, Barca was strong when he come there... I mean they don't even know defaq are they talking about and it's my weakness, it's easy to drag me into this kind of argument... It's easy in the pubs though.. never heard shittlike that there though.

This Pele remark was more of a physical form and how football has advanced... take old F1 cars... car's and tracks changed.. and you can't argue with that.. becouse you're going into corner 200km/h.... cars back then had top speead of that :D

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Grim

I used to have Russian girlfriend and she was fan of Zenit.. and all I needed to know is that Zenit > all as rivals I would say Zenit > Spartak

as for RM / Barca I will agree but look at all those ****'s on the internet who don't even speak or ever been in Spain... where does theyr hate come from? They don't have anything to do with Spanish/Catalan history .. anon's full of pride and ignorance ... I love Real Madird **** your club mine is better, Barcelona are divers, cheaters, girls, Pep didn't do anything, Barca was strong when he come there... I mean they don't even know defaq are they talking about and it's my weakness, it's easy to drag me into this kind of argument... It's easy in the pubs though.. never heard shittlike that there though.

This Pele remark was more of a physical form and how football has advanced... take old F1 cars... car's and tracks changed.. and you can't argue with that.. becouse you're going into corner 200km/h.... cars back then had top speead of that :D

Well, it seems that you just let haters get on your nerves too easily. And I mean that.
Forget the internet - I'm a United fan, and I took those kind of jabs/insults you just mentioned way too often by Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, City fans ect... Be it from neighbors, friends, family ect...Those things are completely normal in my eyes; it's like a football fan trait. But that shouldn't mean that we should get flustered for it. Yes, sometimes, you'll get angry but that also is normal.

Those insults you mentioned are stereotypical cliches used to fuel hate in the rivalry. It's like celebrity fandoms and all those gay slurs and insults on different celebs. Football's popularity has a lot to do with the way that those internet ****'s react. Frankly, there's no big gap between the glamour world and sports world nowadays and thereby, those insults are common notion.

Anyhow, the 'why hate a rival club' is not something easy to explain. It's just like it flows in the veins once you love a club. Like my love for Manchester gave rise to the hate towards Liverpool, City and lots more. And I don't come from England either. That's why they say football is a religion.

In your case what you seem to understand straight is that most RM fans have inherited the gene to hate Barcelona. it's like that for majority of them and you just can't change that. And it's the same for Barcelona fans - you can't sleep with thy enemy.

Re: General Football Debates!

So what we lost? Even great teams have bad days at the office. However in this case it is the manner at which we lost this tie that strikes a great fear to my bones. Barcelona are a team built on philosophy of being one with the ball learning to pass it and be patient ,however when playing such defensive sides like Chelsea ,milan and juventus a plan b strategy should be devised. Not all teams are like barcelona who are patient ,they defend against more than 7 men at thier own half of the field and counter and score decisive goals against teams like barcelona. I am tired this happened to us against celtic and Chelsea but not again ,i admit i as a long time barcelona have know the task ahead of us at the return leg is great but i believe we can do it. We played sluggishly an with no real intent to move forward until after we conceded the first goal and by that time milan were all but fired up. Then the issue came to lionel messi being the flop of the match and having no real opportunity at goal,this also happened to messi against Chelsea due to him being marked. To some extent i do agree his performance was disappointing and expected much more from the best player in the world but he was bad today does not mean he will be bad tomorrow or the day after that .They say messi dont make impact on big matches but bear in mind that this is the same lionel messi that scored two goals against Manchester united in uefa champions league final in 2011 which we won. Milan were the better team and to be honest the manner in which we were playing i wouldn't have been surprised if we conceded a third goal to all but kill our chances into advancing in the second leg. Now i have set aside the defeat of milan and is looking forward to next Tuesday semi -final copa dey rey clasico match ,we have to work hard in that competition and not take it for granted. On the bright side eric abidal who suffered from cancer on his liver about more than a year ago is back , he was missed and hopefully he can add much depth to the team.

Re: General Football Debates!

A shocking result from Milan 2-0 Barcelona...a happy one too! I don't think Barcelona can win the 2nd leg and go to the quarter-finals. They have to score 3 goals to win the game, 2 goals to draw. Knowing that Milan will try to play a more defensive game, it will be very hard for Barcelona to score. Also, if Milan scores only 1 goal Barcelona will have to score 4 goals. Barcelona can win the 2nd leg only if Milan will play a bad game. Barcelona's adventure MAY...END...HERE!

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by -God of War-

A shocking result from Milan 2-0 Barcelona...a happy one too! I don't think Barcelona can win the 2nd leg and go to the quarter-finals. They have to score 3 goals to win the game, 2 goals to draw. Knowing that Milan will try to play a more defensive game, it will be very hard for Barcelona to score. Also, if Milan scores only 1 goal Barcelona will have to score 4 goals. Barcelona can win the 2nd leg only if Milan will play a bad game. Barcelona's adventure MAY...END...HERE!

Re: General Football Debates!

Originally Posted by Escorpiius

I won't say much but we may not have any Spanish teams in the Quarter Finals.

Sadly.

Valencia still have a chance, as Ibra won't be playing and I thought they did a good job containing him at home. PSG will be difficult and odds favour them however. I do think Valencia may put one in at the very least.

Malaga are going home, so a benefit for them there defence away was quite amazing, imagine at home? Of all honesty I think Pelle came for a draw at Porto. Porto is a dangerous team however, but at least Malaga now have home advantage, so will see.

Madrid and United are 50/50, however United have never lost in a KO stage when they drew an away game and Madrid have never won when they drew at home, so it'll be interesting.

Barcelona is probably in the worst seat right now compared to the other Liga teams, but they can still turn it around I think they'll have to perform extremely well and seeing how they have conceding so many goals I believe Milan will score one. Barcelona will at least need to put 4 past them for insurance.