Color me crazy, but going preseason goo-goo-ga-ga over a guy that was a large degree behind Ryan Tannehill as a prospect just isn't my style. I'm not going to say he can't be an NFL QB but sitting here bragging about his arm strength is about as meanginful as talking about Dion Waiters playing in summer league. Sure it may end up part of a rosey and nice story but for now it's nothing more than pulling wishful thinking out of thin air and extrapolating it into mattering.

Fact: The guy has never performed the single most important aspect of being a QB

Fact: The guy also has struggled to stand in the pocket

Fact: There is nothing to say about the guy as a prospect until we see him address these things, everything else is wishful ridiculousness. I don't see you running around the Indians board posting about L_Wash's tools, because that would be ridiculous, so why are you being ridiculous here?

I guess that i come at this from a different perspective. watching the career arcs of Vinnie Testaverde & randall Cunningham taught me one thing: if given enough time, just about all of these guys with big talent eventually "get it" and the on field mental aspect clicks. There are those it eludes, like Kordell Stewart, but by and large if you don't shuttle the guys out with talent and place immediate expectations on them, the mental part of the game will come unless they are well, stupid. Other guys just have fatal physical limitations they can't overcome.

Peeker, I think you are fixating on one aspect of Weed's game with the pocket presence issue to the detriment of all this 1st rounder brings to the table. I dunno if he'd go 3 overall were he 23, but I do think he goes before Tannyhill. But that's all conjecture. If he does the Klingler / Gabbert chuck & duck, we'll know differently. iwatched quite a few OSU games and I didn't see awhole lot of plays that made me yell "U PUSSY!". That ethere are criticisms just doesn't make me pessimistic, that's all.

e0y2e3 wrote:I agree Hiko, that is kind of my point. Running around proclaiming this draft the greatest collection of prospects ever in Cleveland is just silly.

RE: Tannyhill and Weedon, by JB's throws hard measurement a guy that throws hard and can run (while having an excuse for being raw) is a better prospect. Since that is all that matters to JB facts be facts.

Just talking prospects, Weeden has a stronger arm and better accuracy, not to mention his production is off the charts better than Tanny. The only thing Tanny has on Weeden is mobility and youth, the latter being the overriding reason why a team would take him over Weeden.

Which I get, but watching Tanny throw the ball and the way it appears he goes through progressions, he's a project I wouldn't touch in the Top 20.

Saying Weeden is a better prospect than Tanny isn't necessarily a compliment.

Tanny was downright reckless with the ball. To me, INT numbers and a low accuracy are the twin kisses of death. I don't think Weeds presents either.

For the record, I expect him to struggle year one. I expect the whole team to struggle year one. So I don't even know about this "we'll know in 6 weeks" thing.

I'm not fitting Weeds for a century 21 jacket just yet by any means. I'm just saying that there is reason for some optimsim that we foulnd an answer at QB instead of it being viewed as a big gaping hope. There is no comparison to anyone but Quinn that is legit from an entering QB prospective since Couch.

Quinn had his won issues and circumstance and is another topic. But I think he has as much to do with Weeds as as Polar Bear does with the squirrel running around in my back yard right now.

peeker643 wrote:The ownership 'give a shit' is foolish. All that matters if the guy has cash falling outta his pockets.

After that it's all about getting lucky that he's either not a moron and a disinterested wack job heir or not an arrogant, egotistical a-hole convinced that building a football team is the same effing thing as putting up showers every 20 miles for truckers and selling them awful sausage products as well. God forbid if he believes doing one makes him capable and entitled to tell people how to do the other.

We rejoice that Lerner is gone. Fine. He's a knob who never did a hard day's work in his life. Maybe we can get a guy who built a cable company like James Dolan.

Your Pogo routine is in full blossom.

Jesse's piece nailed it this morning.

Remember, the "rudderless" part of the "rudderless suck" is attributable to the owner.

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I agree we won' fully know six weeks in, JB. It'll take longer than that almost assuredly. But things we'll be clearer, strengths and weaknesses will beging to take shape at that time that OTAs and camp and pre-season won't show.

As to ownership, all I'm looking for is perfection. I want a guy with FU money who will spend it when needed and who has the perfect balance of presence and humility. The sports world isn't exactly overflowing with those guys because of ego or stupidity or whatever.

When AL hired Policy most people were grateful there was a real NFL front office type in charge. When Randy hired Holmgren the vast majority hailed that decision too. Neither worked out so well (as yet).

Now we're about to play Who Moved my Cheese again and there's always uncertainty with ownership changing.

Is our hope that Haslam hires people who know what they're doing like Policy and Holmgren?

I'd love to see an organization that looks...well...organized. I want to see excellence dripping from the walls too. Maybe I'm too jaded to believe anyone with the keys to the franchise can get it done at this point.

Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:JFC...another thread gone to the dogs with QB talk and SoulDawg isn't even in the house...

...and note to Jimmy Haslam

"You didn't build that"

Sincerely,

Your President

Most of the immediate future this franchise is predicated upon Weeds.

Yep.

Most of us have spent the past two years screaming about how this league is soooo about the QB position (pretending like we all came to that conclusion on our own years ago) and that getting a legit NFL QB would make a world of difference (with respective supporting casts).

Well now we have a prospect with "NFL measurable's" and it's "let's keep the optimism in the closet". Real man prospect at QB, legit RB with phenom potential and an OL with some proven talent and infused youth for balance and longevity (hopefully).

Weeden isn't going to be the second coming (in his rookie year), he will struggle, but Weeden struggling could and should be a helluva lot better than all the previous schmucks pretenders we've had under center, and maybe a lot more entertaining.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I'm on your side here. Point is compared to Colt, Weeden (we hope) will look like Tom Brady. Even if, in fact, he's Dan Orlovsky.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I'm on your side here. Point is compared to Colt, Weeden (we hope) will look like Tom Brady. Even if, in fact, he's Dan Orlovsky.

See that's my thing matt.

If we go intothis thinking Weeds tis Dan Orlovsky I see that as pretty pessimistic.

Even if he ends up all Dan McGuire his pedegree suggests that is beyond half-empty to 'expect'.

Besides, MK Milf kust reported he won't make the same mistake twice. ;-)

Fire Marshall Bill 2.0 wrote:JFC...another thread gone to the dogs with QB talk and SoulDawg isn't even in the house...

...and note to Jimmy Haslam

"You didn't build that"

Sincerely,

Your President

Most of the immediate future this franchise is predicated upon Weeds.

Yep.

Most of us have spent the past two years screaming about how this league is soooo about the QB position (pretending like we all came to that conclusion on our own years ago) and that getting a legit NFL QB would make a world of difference (with respective supporting casts).

Well now we have a prospect with "NFL measurable's" and it's "let's keep the optimism in the closet". Real man prospect at QB, legit RB with phenom potential and an OL with some proven talent and infused youth for balance and longevity (hopefully).

Weeden isn't going to be the second coming (in his rookie year), he will struggle, but Weeden struggling could and should be a helluva lot better than all the previous schmucks pretenders we've had under center, and maybe a lot more entertaining.

I feel like I need a shower after being in lock step accord with FUDU.

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I'm on your side here. Point is compared to Colt, Weeden (we hope) will look like Tom Brady. Even if, in fact, he's Dan Orlovsky.

See that's my thing matt.

If we go intothis thinking Weeds tis Dan Orlovsky I see that as pretty pessimistic.

Even if he ends up all Dan McGuire his pedegree suggests that is beyond half-empty to 'expect'.

Besides, MK Milf kust reported he won't make the same mistake twice. ;-)

This is where I jump off your bus.

Just because you take the guy at 22 doesn't mean his issues fade away or disappear. It doesn't make him any more likely to be able to hide the warts he was born into the league with any more than it makes it likely his strengths will fail him.

I'm not sure why it's this way with this spot. I understand the position. I understand how extremely critical it is. But I can't overlook the red flags on this kid because he's a QB. Not anymore than I would overlook the red flags on the 4th RB/WR/OT/LB/DE/CB/S that the Browns picked with the 22nd pick in the entire draft.

And even if we completely let go of the acquisition cost, draft spot, whether they reached or not , blah..blah..blah..there are still concerns about handling pressure, forcing throws at times, reading coverages. They were out there before he was taken.

The most I'm willing to do is hope and pray and root for the kid to be the man here and to make those reports look foolish.

I hope he does. I also hope he hurries through those rough spots. I believe RGIII and Luck will experience fewer of those rough spots, come out of them quickly and have 6 more years afterward to make up for those times. The window is compressed for Weeden. The reports and concerns need to be wrong or remedied quickly.

Don't mistake my concerns for hoping he fails. No one here wants to see him succeed more than me. The same amount? Quite a few guys. But not more than me. I'm amongst the minority (as are some of you) who remember what it's like to have a viable QB and football team here.

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I'm on your side here. Point is compared to Colt, Weeden (we hope) will look like Tom Brady. Even if, in fact, he's Dan Orlovsky.

See that's my thing matt.

If we go intothis thinking Weeds tis Dan Orlovsky I see that as pretty pessimistic.

Even if he ends up all Dan McGuire his pedegree suggests that is beyond half-empty to 'expect'.

Besides, MK Milf kust reported he won't make the same mistake twice. ;-)

I'm going into this thinking "He can't possibly be worse than McCoy."

The rest is gravy.

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

FUDU wrote:peeker would you agree the single largest reason why Weeden didn't go in the top 10 (or maybe even top 5-6) was due to his age?

No. I'd say it was probably smaller part age/longevity with more emphasis on lack of mobility/pocket presence/offensive system/progressions and the almost 30 INTs he threw in the two seasons he played. He had a tendency to force some throws and to react unfavorably to pressure.

Maybe it can be coached and maybe his OL talent here will make it less an issue.

The age is a factor but it's honestly NOT a drawback for another 7-9 years. He could be out of the league for 5 years before his age matters and if he's a legit NFL player then his age really doesn't matter today so much as it will when we look back and wish he had another 5 or 6 years to keep doing what he's done the first ten..

I joke around about it and I think it is a factor but there's not a team in the league (I truly believe) who wouldn't take a perennial high-performing QB for 8-10 years if you could guarantee them one.

I still say that if they were the same age, the Fins would take Weeden over Tanny b/c Tanny is higher risk and much less polished, but that might make Weeden a Top 10 pick b/c Miami was desperate rather than deserving to be that high.

FUDU wrote:peeker would you agree the single largest reason why Weeden didn't go in the top 10 (or maybe even top 5-6) was due to his age?

No. I'd say it was probably smaller part age/longevity with more emphasis on lack of mobility/pocket presence/offensive system/progressions and the almost 30 INTs he threw in the two seasons he played. He had a tendency to force some throws and to react unfavorably to pressure.

Maybe it can be coached and maybe his OL talent here will make it less an issue.

The age is a factor but it's honestly NOT a drawback for another 7-9 years. He could be out of the league for 5 years before his age matters and if he's a legit NFL player then his age really doesn't matter today so much as it will when we look back and wish he had another 5 or 6 years to keep doing what he's done the first ten..

I joke around about it and I think it is a factor but there's not a team in the league (I truly believe) who wouldn't take a perennial high-performing QB for 8-10 years if you could guarantee them one.

If he would've shown better mobility/pocket presence in college, as well as played in a situation/offense which (or conference) which would've given a better indication of an abilty to read coverages, the number 28 would be a much, much smaller factor.

If I remember correctly, the papers have been sent to the league for approval.

Anybody have an idea of when this process could be finished by (if approved)?

I heard within a month.Lerner needs to beat year end on the financial side so that if the Bush tax cuts are repealed he's not getting bent over on capital gains taxes. Not beating those taxes could cost him tens of millions.

If I remember correctly, the papers have been sent to the league for approval.

Anybody have an idea of when this process could be finished by (if approved)?

Hearing that it would likely be announced in or around October.

Playing here is the closest thing to heaven. Really, I mean it's amazing to be in a place where the fans truly cherish their football team and stick behind them win or lose. We players love them, too. I feel a sense of accomplishment playing here, we are a special breed of football players with a great opportunity." ~ tOSU LB Brian Rolle

mattvan1 wrote:It's closing time. Last call for alcohol, and you need a slump-buster. On an 1-10 scale, you've had your eye on a 3 all night. Then, a solid 6 (if there is such a thing as a "solid 6") walks thru the door. And damn if that 6 don't look like an angel compared to the 3.

The cynicism here is thick and pervasive.

If you think Weeds is a "6" on a QB prospect scale your're nutty. 6's go in round 3.

He's not Kate Upton Luck, but he's a high level prospect. Nothing more yet, but certainly nothing less.

I'm on your side here. Point is compared to Colt, Weeden (we hope) will look like Tom Brady. Even if, in fact, he's Dan Orlovsky.

See that's my thing matt.

If we go intothis thinking Weeds tis Dan Orlovsky I see that as pretty pessimistic.

Even if he ends up all Dan McGuire his pedegree suggests that is beyond half-empty to 'expect'.

Besides, MK Milf kust reported he won't make the same mistake twice. ;-)

This is where I jump off your bus.

Just because you take the guy at 22 doesn't mean his issues fade away or disappear. It doesn't make him any more likely to be able to hide the warts he was born into the league with any more than it makes it likely his strengths will fail him.

I'm not sure why it's this way with this spot. I understand the position. I understand how extremely critical it is. But I can't overlook the red flags on this kid because he's a QB. Not anymore than I would overlook the red flags on the 4th RB/WR/OT/LB/DE/CB/S that the Browns picked with the 22nd pick in the entire draft.

And even if we completely let go of the acquisition cost, draft spot, whether they reached or not , blah..blah..blah..there are still concerns about handling pressure, forcing throws at times, reading coverages. They were out there before he was taken.

The most I'm willing to do is hope and pray and root for the kid to be the man here and to make those reports look foolish.

I hope he does. I also hope he hurries through those rough spots. I believe RGIII and Luck will experience fewer of those rough spots, come out of them quickly and have 6 more years afterward to make up for those times. The window is compressed for Weeden. The reports and concerns need to be wrong or remedied quickly.

Don't mistake my concerns for hoping he fails. No one here wants to see him succeed more than me. The same amount? Quite a few guys. But not more than me. I'm amongst the minority (as are some of you) who remember what it's like to have a viable QB and football team here.

Just make sure you jump in front of a wheel well. ;-)

Look, you can take QB's slotted by draft round and they corrolate to pro bowl appearences. So I'm not asking you to overlook any flaws in scouting. Just that at day's end those flaws are more likely to be augmented / overcome by a 1st rounder than a 4th rounder. So yeah, it matters. There's a huge body of statistical evidence backing that over along period in time.

Maybe I can recall 2 or so "perfect" NFL QB prospects to enter the league. Elways & Luck. Arguably Peyton. The rest ALL came in with baggage. Somehow, many overcome them. Miraculous.

And I'm not some schmuck saying you are a hata rooting for him to fail. I just think you are selling Weeds short as a prospect. And yeah, I understand you & Lee's valid points. Weeds isnt Luck or RG3 as a GREAT prospect. Not sure he needs to be to generate some legit optimism that after some refinement and experience he'll be a top 10 NFL QB; good enuff to win a sausage on a very good team. This is different from saying "done deal" on the QB situation.

As far as prospects go at any position, they can ALL bust, but they can't ALL hit. There's guys in the league and who are rooks you almost KNOW will never really do jack squat. There's guys you can look at and say "yeah, he's got a pretty good shot at doing some good things on Sunday". I'd place Weeds in the latter category.

If I remember correctly, the papers have been sent to the league for approval.

Anybody have an idea of when this process could be finished by (if approved)?

I heard within a month.Lerner needs to beat year end on the financial side so that if the Bush tax cuts are repealed he's not getting bent over on capital gains taxes. Not beating those taxes could cost him tens of millions.

If I remember correctly, the papers have been sent to the league for approval.

Anybody have an idea of when this process could be finished by (if approved)?

I heard within a month.Lerner needs to beat year end on the financial side so that if the Bush tax cuts are repealed he's not getting bent over on capital gains taxes. Not beating those taxes could cost him tens of millions.

Swerb wrote:Go start a blog if you want to tell the world your incomprehendible ramblings.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:I have a big arm and can throw the ball pretty damn far...... maybe even over those moutains. The Browns should sign me, i'll let you all in locker room to drink beer. Then we can all go out the parking lot to watch me do motorcycle stunts.

comish wrote:Bah! As soon as the ink dries guy immediately becomes the biggest Brown's fan in town. I could care less who he used to root for or invested in...as long as he gives a damn, pays attention, and helps build/sustain a winner he's aaaaaright in my book.

Let the Flying J era begin

Yep.

Gilbert was a pretty huge fan of the Pistons before buying the Cavs. Didn't seem to stop him from spending his money and involving himself in the Cleveland economy and political world.

These guys are here to make money and to have shinier toys than their business, professional and social rivals have. Their egos make it so.

Say what you will about the franchise , but this has got to be one of the most seamless sales in not only football , but all of Sports.

We are lucky, this could have been a cluster F of a sale like what happend with the Rams , dolphins, and you could even say the Dodgers. I can't believe that this day in age all three parties where able to keep this under raps.

"I don't think they're building chemical weapons in Berea. But they might be. I can't say for sure."Chuck Klosterman

The Cleveland Browns, arguably the worst pro sports franchise of the last 15 years is worth $1BB.

The NFL, man, oh man, oh man do they ever make some money.

Performance only affects value so much. As you point out, every NFL team is worth/makes big bucks. And NEO is a good football market.

Jacksonville, by comparison, is shitty AND no one cares.

But probably still worth more than 90% of MLB and NBA teams.

Exactly, really it doesn't affect it much at all. He bought the fanbase, which is valuable(insert smart-ass comment about blind loyalty or outright stupidity here). He bought the NFL TV contracts, which are valuable.

Has dick to do with 13 years of a shit on the field product, plenty of people are seemingly missing the point when reacting to the sale price (not neccessarily talking about here as much as all over the net). Jacksonville could have won the last 3 SB's and they wouldn't have sniffed this selling price.

That said, this could be the high water mark for the NFL, and Randy may have inadvertantly sold at the best time possible. You might look back at this as selling your house in late 07 depending on how things go over the next 15 years with regards to head injuries.

JCoz wrote:That said, this could be the high water mark for the NFL, and Randy may have inadvertantly sold at the best time possible. You might look back at this as selling your house in late 07 depending on how things go over the next 15 years with regards to head injuries.

Quite valid. Football is flirting with a very dangerous path. In 10 years, they might've fucked things up enough that even a diehard football guy like myself NBA's them (translation - stops watching b/c I've given up on the system).

Hikohadon wrote:Quite valid. Football is flirting with a very dangerous path. In 10 years, they might've fucked things up enough that even a diehard football guy like myself MLB's them (translation - stops watching b/c I've given up on the system).

Look, the NorthEast Ohio fanbase is nice and all, but the Browns aren't a national draw so claiming he payed for the fanbase is bullshit.

The Browns are most probably one of the five to ten least valuable teams in the league, but with revenue sharing, etc, it doesn't matter. My point of shock is more so that one of the lower third valued franchises in the league is actually still wroth $1B (Forbes had them at what, like 27th and worht $977MM).

e0y2e3 wrote:Look, the NorthEast Ohio fanbase is nice and all, but the Browns aren't a national draw so claiming he payed for the fanbase is bullshit.

The Browns are most probably one of the five to ten least valuable teams in the league, but with revenue sharing, etc, it doesn't matter. My point of shock is more so that one of the lower third valued franchises in the league is actually still wroth $1B (Forbes had them at what, like 27th and worht $977MM).