Just to update to the latest opinion which is the best law school now. I believe many says Kemayan has degraded due to the leave of many of its capable lecturers where Brickfields sure have a high reputation in this field.

I wonder how recent is this rumour.

Edited : Sorry but it would be nice if I can edit the poll question to

i said others. from what i hear, the law program at Uitm is very good. also, i'm a student at UIA in gombak. the lecturers here are one of, if not the best. almost all got one of their degrees from overseas. the onyl thing is u might get annoyed with the whole 'islamic' thingy

i said others. from what i hear, the law program at Uitm is very good. also, i'm a student at UIA in gombak. the lecturers here are one of, if not the best. almost all got one of their degrees from overseas. the onyl thing is u might get annoyed with the whole 'islamic' thingy

A foreign degree is not a measure of quality. Think Irish International University.

There were ATC lecturers who left to other colleges few months ago. But its only a small amount. Majority of the quality lecturers still there. The best ?/LLB will be ATC, CLP is definitely Brickfields.

Pardon my ignorance, but has anyone ever considered the University of Nottingham?

I'm not so sure on whether it is "better" or "worse" than Brickfields or the others, but it was ranked top ten among UK universities in the faculty of Law. Taking the degree locally [I know there's a campus branch here in Malaysia], wouldn't it be the same as taking it there? I took a swing by the Malaysian website, apparently they've started offering Law here.

That is what confuse me the most. I have to take my degree locally in full and since its external, I hope to get the best lecturer to help me with my work.

I too believe ATC is good but the rumours saying their good lecturers are going off really puts me in worry. Brickfields is coming up but according to the leaflet they gave me although the lecturers' qualification is not that good (at least there not even a LLM) but its written that they are experienced enough.

AND I actually realise theres vote for Stamford. May provide comment why you voted for it ?

Additional : I've browse through Brickfields' site and found that they are good in their CLP but I dont know if they are as well for their LLB. Any current LLB students in Brickfields can verify this ?

im a current student at brickfields. ikeken, well actually to be frank with you it doesnt matter where you choose to do your law it all depends on how you study. that aside, Brickfields offers the Uni of london external (3+0), Uni Malaya (Bachelor of Jurisprudence) and also a 2+1 programme from Uni of West England(UWE). If u ask me the uni of london(UOL) is much tougher cos its nine months of hard core studying and one exam which determines whether you get through or not but uni of west england follows the semester system which is not so . . If you were to pick to do the UOL regardless of which college you go to , the syllabus cant 'lari' that much theres a guide line as to what is the scope of learning should be but prepare to cos its not easy. Brickfields lecturers might not have LLMs or Phd...oh wait there is one with a Phd but they are verry dedicated. trust me on this. and the bonus is that it offers the cheapest fees!!

im a current student at brickfields. ikeken, well actually to be frank with you it doesnt matter where you choose to do your law it all depends on how you study. that aside, Brickfields offers the Uni of london external (3+0), Uni Malaya (Bachelor of Jurisprudence) and also a 2+1 programme from Uni of West England(UWE). If u ask me the uni of london(UOL) is much tougher cos its nine months of hard core studying and one exam which determines whether you get through or not but uni of west england follows the semester system which is not so . . If you were to pick to do the UOL regardless of which college you go to , the syllabus cant 'lari' that much theres a guide line as to what is the scope of learning should be but prepare to cos its not easy. Brickfields lecturers might not have LLMs or Phd...oh wait there is one with a Phd but they are verry dedicated. trust me on this. and the bonus is that it offers the cheapest fees!!

Yeah due to financial restriction though its harder but guess I'll take on the external with UoL. The fees was cheap though but only problem would be transportation. Im an outstation student and so I have to live somewhere else which is far from Sentral. Hows the traffic there during your timetable ? Congested ? Is there any parking lot there ?

QUOTE(Canopies @ Dec 1 2006, 12:56 PM)

Hey guys..Im going to Brickfields during the january intake...hope can meet u guys...K?

Im planning to do it there taking the January intake. Which course you taking ? UoL or UWE ? How are you going there ?

hi.. im new to this forum and i just want to say im so glad i found it! im planning to take law privately and what u guys have discussed has helped me so much. im probably going to brickfields to do it and will do it part time starting in jan. anyone doing the same thing?

Until year 2006, ATC has the best LLB results in Malaysia and most probably the best in the world. Brickfield is coming up but i am not sure when they can be on par with ATC on producing high-scoring achievers.

I just called one of my friend and he told me not to go Brickfields. He said Brickfields only concerntrate their resources in CLP rather than LLB. Kemayan gives more priority in LLB.

This really influences my decision on choosing which college to go. Kemayan seemed to be a wiser choice at this moment.

so have u made ur final decision yet? so confused now.. a few days ago most of the posts seem to say that b'fields is the better one.. but now kemayan seems to be the better college.

anyone who's thinking of taking law next year, can u reply to this post and say which college u've chosen and what are the factors that influenced your choice?btw, does anyone know if kemayan offers law part time?

i guess in the end u have to depend on yourself a lot also rite? no use going to the best law school if u don't study and play ur part.. anyway, tomorrow i'll be visiting both places b4 i make my final decision

wah liao canopies.. i know i am old ler.. no need to rub it in my face.. hehe.. does anyone know the fees for kemayan? if kemayan's a lot more costly then i will most probably choose brickfields.. anyway, didn't get to go to those 2 places today bcos something came up.

ikeken.. haiya.. i thought u had it all figured out already.. was also waiting to see what ur decision would be.. have u ever dropped by both places to have a look see?

I think they are obessed with which school have the best lecturers. You can study on your own, but for a bunch of 19, 20 year olds (Me included), unless you are tight on budget or anything, doubt you can do it on your own. Prove me wrong, prove me wrong!!!!

wah liao canopies.. i know i am old ler.. no need to rub it in my face.. hehe.. does anyone know the fees for kemayan? if kemayan's a lot more costly then i will most probably choose brickfields.. anyway, didn't get to go to those 2 places today bcos something came up.

ikeken.. haiya.. i thought u had it all figured out already.. was also waiting to see what ur decision would be.. have u ever dropped by both places to have a look see?

Lol belinda actually somehow I have some idea which to go. ATC has favoured me slightly more than Brickfields. ATC only costs 2k more (approximately) than Brickfields.

Still thinking which to go. Haha.

QUOTE(kaiserreich @ Dec 4 2006, 07:31 PM)

I think they are obessed with which school have the best lecturers. You can study on your own, but for a bunch of 19, 20 year olds (Me included), unless you are tight on budget or anything, doubt you can do it on your own. Prove me wrong, prove me wrong!!!!

Haha that is why Im looking for the college with good lecturers. I doubt I can study on my own and thats why I need someone to motivate me.

[quote=ikeken,Dec 4 2006, 09:02 PM]Lol belinda actually somehow I have some idea which to go. ATC has favoured me slightly more than Brickfields. ATC only costs 2k more (approximately) than Brickfields.

ATC costs 2k more per course or per year? for me 2k is a lot of difference bcos im self financing my own studies.. guess i will go for brickfields la.. from what i gather, both colleges have good RESPONSIBLE lecturers, and that is good enough.. cos im from local uni with certain horrendous so called lecturers who don't teach, so i guess compared with them both brickfields and ATC should be better gua.. as long as they attend the lectures themselves and teach should be enough for me la, no need to find superstar lecturers

You guys are caught up with which college is the best and all. Truth is, you don't need to go to college for UOL external, you can study on your own if you want to.

UOL actually is all about studying on your own.that is why it was offered way way back in the 1800 to those who couldnt attend university cos they were knights or soldier (whatever they called them at that time)but going to college is more about mastering the art of answering questions and learning the legal languageits really when you see terms like 'nemo judex in causa sua' and wouldnt know how to apply it...by the way i just learn that maxim

Brickfields offer A level ma..then after that straight away study their law degree.As i suggest, nirvana is not a good place for law. Dont go..cause i heard a story that there got no dedicated lecturer. Correct me if i am wrong.Secondly, ATC has really degraded. My fren did a survey between BAC and ATC,she had proven that some of the good,experienced and dedicated lecturers had left. During last year edu fair, ATC did not set up a booth to attract students. According to BAC lecturers, this is because their results are not very good.Besides that, ATC is now having some law problem with IMU (International medical University). ATC had some financial problem. I heard that they need to pay few millions to IMU. * i am currently imu student*BAC really got very dedicated and experienced lecturers. Some of them is real lawyers with very good qualification. One of their A Level's econ lecturer is 1 of the minority who got his MBA in twenties using online system. He is damn smart although quite sarcastic i can say. Those who wanna take econ in BAC,i must say u are fortunate. Haha..Er..think i crap a lot. haha..

legal eagle.. r u a law student now? if u are, where r u studying and how has things been so far?

hi belinda, yup im studying law at BAC. notes are comprehensive and lectures are good but you have to have the will power to sit in class for 3 hours for the lectures..im doing part time so my clasess are during the weekend...8 hours of lecture on Sunday!!

UOL actually is all about studying on your own.that is why it was offered way way back in the 1800 to those who couldnt attend university cos they were knights or soldier (whatever they called them at that time)but going to college is more about mastering the art of answering questions and learning the legal languageits really when you see terms like 'nemo judex in causa sua' and wouldnt know how to apply it...by the way i just learn that maxim

Theres lot more for you to learn because you have to know the latin phrase in order to read a law journal. Thats so you are doing LLB in BAC ?

I went to LLB preview held by ATC Kemayan past Saturday and I discovered some interesting information that I think will greatly help those interested to choose between BAC or ATC.

Some interesting facts ATC gave on that day is that their students obtained 6 out of 10 First Class Honour Degrees awarded by University of London ever since 1800's. Also, they are the winner for Malaysian LLB Scholarship awarded by Kings' College for the 9th consecutive years.

Yes, their lecturers are mostly Full Time and thus making them bit outdated as they are not current litigations or solicitor. However, the principal himself said that LLB is more to academic, not practice. Thus, a full time lecturer can give you more support than a current lawyer.

The preview really gives me a good idea that ATC is still the 'elite' law institution as recognised by University of London themselves.

Register yourself as an external student with University of London then pay the fees, they will send you textbooks. Read them then attend examinations. If you want to, you can actually do not need to attend classes.

Register yourself as an external student with University of London then pay the fees, they will send you textbooks. Read them then attend examinations. If you want to, you can actually do not need to attend classes.

but i can take the exams when i like la? is it? and can i take a accounting/finance degree then when i start work.,....i study law at my own sweet time then take the exams as i wish?

ATC still stands out as the best for LLB based on student results alone. Yes, it isn't a big secret that there is a lot of problems as far as management and such are concerned in ATC, but result wise, they still top the charts (and i'm not talking about M'sia - Kemayan ATC students have got an excellent record for scoring some of the best results for the entire UOL external degree program worldwide). Can't recall the exact numbers, but ATC students have won the Kings scholarship (UOL's scholarship to finish up your LLB in London - fully paid - and only one given out each year) more times then any other College anywhere in the world.

However, some words of caution. The campus (at Petaling Street) isn't exactly one of the best places you would want to be studying at. There will be a lot of canceled classes, and such. The number of students taking the LLB program each year at ATC is extremly high, so expect classes to be insanely huge - especially towards the exams when the seminars are going on. When i say huge, i mean more then 150 to a room. Their lecturers portfolio is very impressive as well, but considering the student to lecturer ratio, it is impossible to expect them to do miracles.

Pricing wise, Kemayan ATC's prices are somewhat reasonable, you basically will be able to finish your LLB for around RM25k (all inclusive).

Brickfields College still comes out tops for their CLP program, which is what Mr Raja Singham teaches. There new campus building is light years better then what ATC has, except the library.

The other colleges like Stamford and KDU charge a bomb for the UOL program (up to double what you pay at ATC/Kemayan/Nirwana) but they have a much better student to lecturer ratio. At KDU, its as low as 25 students to a class, but its quite easy to do that if you charge double the rates, and there are only 50 students taking the paper! Also, when you do sit for the exams, it will be at the same location where all the other students (from Kemayan, ATC etc) seat for it. Not to mention, none of these colleges offer the CLP program, which means you're back to Kemayan/Brickfields to do it.

End of the day, the UOL external LLb program is down to the student, with which college you're at just helping you along the way. UOL will basically send you the study guide, text books etc along with the past 10 years of exam papers and examiners remarks for them. Thats why its even possible to study by yourself and not attend college to do the LLB (but only if you're already working and have enough experience to be able to argue and answer questions!)

I went to LLB preview held by ATC Kemayan past Saturday and I discovered some interesting information that I think will greatly help those interested to choose between BAC or ATC.

Some interesting facts ATC gave on that day is that their students obtained 6 out of 10 First Class Honour Degrees awarded by University of London ever since 1800's. Also, they are the winner for Malaysian LLB Scholarship awarded by Kings' College for the 9th consecutive years.

Yes, their lecturers are mostly Full Time and thus making them bit outdated as they are not current litigations or solicitor. However, the principal himself said that LLB is more to academic, not practice. Thus, a full time lecturer can give you more support than a current lawyer.

The preview really gives me a good idea that ATC is still the 'elite' law institution as recognised by University of London themselves.

If ATC told you that it is endorsed by UOL, they are lying. There is a fine difference between recognition of a college being a place where one can seek tuition and and endorsement by UOL to carry out UOL programs.

QUOTE(Ritz Crackers @ Dec 18 2006, 11:58 PM)

local law degree means a law degree from malaysian university

UoL LLB the degree itself is recognisedI beg your pardon and have to rephrase what I said earlier:Singapore does not recognise LLB (external) grad as qualified to be lawyer!

Eg, if you're a Malaysian graudated from Malaysian University wishing to practice as lawyer in Singapore... you can only do so if you are a UM gradIf you are not an UM grad, then you had to be a law grad from certain UK, NZ, Aussi universities and sadly, UoL is not one of them... sigh!

FYI, Singapore lawyers are paid much much much better than Malaysian lawyers!

If ATC told you that it is endorsed by UOL, they are lying. There is a fine difference between recognition of a college being a place where one can seek tuition and and endorsement by UOL to carry out UOL programs.UOL is rocognised. UOL external is not.

No they didnt claim that they were endorsed by UoL. Its just an unofficial statement made by their programme director.

I m going for a twinning program which is offers from KDU to University Of Tasmania

So,later I get my Degree...can I work in Aus as a lawyer?--------------------

Thanks for voting bac

For senior member with loads of starts to show off, you surprise me with your lack of knowledge of the basics.

Legal profession in Australia is regulated by the Australian Bar. The best place is to check out their website, ask your lecturer (i recommend Quah Ean Lin of KDU who is a personal friend of mind) or just google what you want.

hahasince people in this forum are malaysianwhy even bother ask how to practice outsidebut common sense would reveal that its actually the sameevery country has their own BAR or Lawyer's Association

but if u want to practice in Malaysia with less hassleand if ur malay (sorry bout this statement but the university im about to state is kinda malay oriented...the community i mean)try International Islamic University of Malaysiathe university sucks for Every Single Thing except

i) FEESii) Quality of Education

upon graduation, u are exempted from CLP examshahaim already a 3rd year 2nd sem student there at the time beinghaving funbut the Uni's deadkakakaka

I refuse to vote which is the best law school in Malaysia as list. That is because only the local universities like Inter. Islamic University of Malaysia/ UM --is running the program, monitoring & instituting the exams is considered as law school.

Those private colleges are offering tutoring law subjects and therefore, its not a school its is actually a tutoring centre. In the end, you have to be tested by the university program that you have elected to do so for example : University of London. That is the difference.

Before you asked any question, the best thing for anyone of us to do is google it and read alot. If all else fails, " beat me up for asking this stupid question, I googled it, no answer , please help me by answering."

ATC being the best for LLB?? I definitely dun think so... The dismissal of lecturers from the institution has really casued a downsize of their quality of teaching as well as the quality of students... Gone are the days when one can say that ATC is the premier law school in Malaysia... Gone are the days whereby students can literally pee in their pants upon listening to the breathtaking law lectures from the ATC lecturers... The new batch of lecturers now are deemed to be nothing compare to oldies... If we rate the knowledge of the new batch as peanuts, the oldies would have been measured by bowling balls!!! Other institutions are fast gaining on ATC if not overtaken it...

ok. i've just completed 1st year in atc (whtr i will pass the 1st year is another story altogether), and i just received an offer to start 1st year in um law this coming intake. Q is -- which one shud i take?

the cheaper route would of course be um, but the faster route (provided i do not stumble at all throughout the 3 years of LLB and miraculously pass CLP on first try) would be the atc route. not tat i'm thrilled and eager to work a year earlier but considering the chambering & getting salary equivalent to a gardener's for 9 whole months, i really don like the idea of having it delayed any further.

quality-wise, would a uol external degree be worth more than um's law degree? wat say in terms of international recognition?

opinions highly appreciated

PS: does anyone wan honest (i do mean honest) opinions on atc? i can offer mine

ok. i've just completed 1st year in atc (whtr i will pass the 1st year is another story altogether), and i just received an offer to start 1st year in um law this coming intake. Q is -- which one shud i take?

the cheaper route would of course be um, but the faster route (provided i do not stumble at all throughout the 3 years of LLB and miraculously pass CLP on first try) would be the atc route. not tat i'm thrilled and eager to work a year earlier but considering the chambering & getting salary equivalent to a gardener's for 9 whole months, i really don like the idea of having it delayed any further.

quality-wise, would a uol external degree be worth more than um's law degree? wat say in terms of international recognition?

opinions highly appreciated

PS: does anyone wan honest (i do mean honest) opinions on atc? i can offer mine

Go to UM. IMO, always better to go to a proper university with its own faculty than doing an external programme at a private college. UM should also have better resources. Not having to do CLP is a huge plus as will become apparent the closer you come to graduating. As for speed, the private route will only be faster IF you pass CLP on the first try. A big if - are you willing to take that risk?

Another plus for UM is it's recognised in Singapore. London external LLB holders can't practice in S'pore. Further overseas, there shouldn't be a real difference (except maybe in the UK) - the key is having to pass the Bar exams wherever you go.

all must ensure that all new local law grads from UUM and MMU, even if you're exempted from taking CLP as those similar with MU, UiTM, IIUM and UKM, you cannot do your chambering at this moment because your degree is not under 'qualified person' yet. it maybe taken about one and two years from now before you can do your chambering or call to the bar. the reason is Legal Profession Qualifying Board still not recognized yet the law degree from these 2 universities.

Added on July 22, 2007, 12:12 am

QUOTE(jsm @ Jun 5 2007, 06:15 PM)

I cannot say if the program is good or not, but I happen to know a law lecturer at Uitm who tells me the law students there are "the bottom of the barrel".

ATC has probably the best UOL results record among all the schools, Brickfields will probably be considered the best for CLP results. I dun think the latter offers EU law, so if you need that subject opt for ATC.

I just heard that MR Reuben has left ATC, not sure whether its true. But if so, thats another big loss on their part. Another point, Brickfields teaches subject by subject, whereas ATC teaches all subjects simultaneously throughout the course.

Have you considered Nirwana College? They have restarted under Mr Murali and have a great lecturer-student ratio, which i think is important when it comes to individual student development. There were a few crap lecturers, but they have been replaced, and a few improvements are being introduced. I would recommend them especially if you are doing your Part I.

As for their website, they are currently getting a new server and initiating a total overhaul of the entire IT infrastructure, so i guess its down for a while. Hope this helps!

hi..i saw a few msg saying about the UOL(internal) and UOL(external)...is it true??...i went to colleges and none of the counsellor told me about there's two different UOL...and also..i'm planning to go brickfields to continue my law degree...is it a good choice??...or KDU's better???

hi..i saw a few msg saying about the UOL(internal) and UOL(external)...is it true??...i went to colleges and none of the counsellor told me about there's two different UOL...and also..i'm planning to go brickfields to continue my law degree...is it a good choice??...or KDU's better???

UOL (internal) are the degrees conducted by the respective UOL colleges in London and within themselves. For example, the University College London has an LLB programme. The degree is ultimately awarded by the University of London.

UOL (external) is the course conducted in Malaysian private colleges, i.e. external to the actual London universities. It is actually a distance-learning course and is available to people all over the world. There is no need to enroll in any college if you don't want to (none of the colleges are affiliated with or recognised in any way by the UOL).

Technically, there should be no difference between Brickfield's or KDU's degrees cos they're the same thing* - UOL external degree. The syllabus and the exams have nothing to do with the respective colleges. As mentioned above, you don't even need a college if you don't want to. However, there might be some difference with teaching, practice papers etc...*There's only a difference if you do KDU's twinning programme with Oxford Brookes University or University of Tasmania. Those have nothing to do with the UOL.

Go to UM. IMO, always better to go to a proper university with its own faculty than doing an external programme at a private college. UM should also have better resources. Not having to do CLP is a huge plus as will become apparent the closer you come to graduating. As for speed, the private route will only be faster IF you pass CLP on the first try. A big if - are you willing to take that risk?

Another plus for UM is it's recognised in Singapore. London external LLB holders can't practice in S'pore. Further overseas, there shouldn't be a real difference (except maybe in the UK) - the key is having to pass the Bar exams wherever you go.

True go UM.. i did llb in Atc, clp in Brickfields.. Clp is horrible.. nightmare.. so better go UM the easier road and a lot of big firms are getting hold of them... and in UM u can easily get 1st class or 2nd class upper there.. why wna to waste time when u got shortcut.. 3yrs law degree from uol which is not relevant in msia.. and squeeze in 1 yr comprehensive clp ... do in 4 yrs um.. have a CAMPUS life okay.. in atc or brickfields , u have no life , come back on weekends, public hols.. and etc.. and its not cheap!

well then...is UOL(external) recognised by Malaysia and some other commonwealth countries???

Malaysia and Uk, yes. Singapore, no.

You'll have to check specifically with the bar councils/law societies of other countries. I suspect countries like Aus and NZ will recognise it - they're not as picky as Singapore. I think Canada does too.

Bear in mind that often, people with foreign law degrees are required to do some other exams/uni papers to fit into a new jurisdiction. My friend with a Uni of Manchester LLB had to take a couple of papers at an NZ university before she could enroll for the bar course.

Colleges offering LLB in KL not only ATC and BAC, there is also Nirwana and Institut Mentari. I think Mnetari is also a college listed at UOL external website as one of the "elite" college lead by Mr EL Tan, former Director of Law programme at ATC. Mr. Murali, the Vice principal of ATC now is in Nirwana college as well.

Check out all before making a decision.

Added on August 19, 2007, 1:30 am

QUOTE(DDSFan8 @ Jun 11 2007, 12:49 AM)

I want to study part-time LAW LLB, where should I go?

LLB part time course are available at ATC, BAC, Mentari School of Law, Nirwana etc. Check them out for fees and lecturers' experience before joining.

Added on August 19, 2007, 1:33 am

QUOTE(nitsujyuen @ Jul 24 2007, 10:40 PM)

hey there!!

Need sum help, im gonna graduate with degree in IT. Can I enrol in any of the part-time law courses provided by ATC ? Any requirements needed for graduate student?

thx

To study Law, you need 2 a levels or STPM and above. If you are a degree holder, you are eligible to study as well. Most people choose Uiniversity of London (UOL) external as it is cheaper and recognised internationally. Colleges providing LLB include ATC, BAC, Mentari, Nirwana, Stamford, KDU ...

Added on August 19, 2007, 1:37 am

QUOTE(tiffany teh @ Aug 16 2007, 09:50 PM)

hi..i saw a few msg saying about the UOL(internal) and UOL(external)...is it true??...i went to colleges and none of the counsellor told me about there's two different UOL...and also..i'm planning to go brickfields to continue my law degree...is it a good choice??...or KDU's better???

You can study LLB at either ATC, BAC, Mentari, Nirwana... these are the more established college with complete lecturers team for all levels. They are all in KL. I won't recommend KDU or Stamford (no effence)

hey all, i think dis is a great topic. im currently a law student from a bigger institution, i was supposed to head to UK for my final year, but havin sum difficulty, so need to switch to external, did my research, got few placesoffering UOL, mentari school of law, atc, bac.

been to all 3 places, atc is big n nice but heard from a fren studying there,atmosphere not so good.it is tru they still got many senior lecturers but they dont teach,they send the juniors in.rumour has it they dont get paid well.

aso, the top lecturers have left, MK who was the deputy principal went to nirwana, then got another senior 1 went to mentari, and aso another few in mentari.

if all is k ,then so many wont leave mah,sumthin is wron.

well bac is crowded. no notable lectueres, results never show,clp good lah not llb.

mentari,to my amazement is ok. small lah but condusive. the few top lecturers from atc there. the head there use to be the head in atc, they also got the last first class honours graduate teaching there, heard that she's good.

they have aso produced a first class already within 1 one.that tells all.

Hi everyone. Im also contemplating to be a legal eagle. I actually went around asking current and ex-students of various places which offer law degree courses.

First thing i hear is that UOL external LLB is the most difficult and highest standard of the law degrees you can get in this region. Forget about UM, UiTm or UIA. there is only 1 or 2 first classes for UOL every year. and they are HARD. (or at least that was what i was told, even by practicing lawyers which actually prefers external students over internal students).

For UOL external LLB, places around KL which provide courses for them are ATC, Brickfields, Mentari School of Law, KDU and Nirwana. Erm, out of the 5, KDU only has about less than 10 students per batch and Nirwana has about 20 or so for the whole course. or that was what I was told. So, maybe a bit lonely la if i go thr.

ATC has the biggest crowd, due to their long standing reputation. but i also heard that last year, quite a number of lecturers actually left. So like sophie said, sounds like there's some problem. but i dont know la. From what I gather, some lecturers went to Nirwana while some to Mentari. But I got to know that the head lecturer for Jurisprudence went to Mentari la. and from what i could gather, all first class graduates actually scored an A for jurisprudence. i actually got acquainted with the last first class from malaysia for UOL la and she is teaching in Mentari. she told me that to get a first class, must get A for jurisprudence and she credited her A to this Jurisprudence guy.

For Brickfields, they never appealed to me la. they got huge CLP course la but i never hear any great results from their LLB course. but they are the most convenient place i guess, cos they are near to KL sentral.

Im also in a dillemma now. but i guess the key choices for me are actually mentari, atc and brickfields, tho i think i ll look into their results to make a choice la. but i think mentari seems not bad la, cos my friend is studying there and she says lecturers there are always willing to help. waiting for each of their open days to check em out.

First thing i hear is that UOL external LLB is the most difficult and highest standard of the law degrees you can get in this region. Forget about UM, UiTm or UIA. there is only 1 or 2 first classes for UOL every year. and they are HARD. (or at least that was what i was told, even by practicing lawyers which actually prefers external students over internal students).

1) First of all, I think you mean first class degrees. There are enough second class degrees awarded. What is rare is second upper degrees (2:1s). I've often wondered whether the difficulty in obtaning first class degrees in the external programme can be put down to the difficulty of external study - without the benefit of greater exposure, resources and expertise internal UOL students receive. What is clear is that a far greater number of UOL internal graduates receive firsts and 2:1s. It is unlikely that the external degree is more difficult/marked harder.

I think the most likely cause of the poorer external results if the relatively inferior pool of students. The external LLB has much lower entry requirements (minimum 2 A'level passes). Even Queen Mary asks for AAB at A'levels. That's significantly higher than the external LLB. Lousier students = lousier results. Better students = better results. Simple as that. The same argument applies for UM and other local unis. Anyone with 2 STPM passes hoping for entry into UM's LLB can keep dreaming (and maybe get his head examined).

So it is not that the external LLB is that much harder.

2) Industry preference - any proof of this? I've never heard it before. Also, what do you mean by 'internal' - UM and other local unis or internal UOL?

well like i said, its all i heard. i didnt assert anything rite. im just new to this. i ll reassert what i heard.

i never said UOL internal is a piece of cake. same standard. different places. this is UOL we are talking about. not some university of eastern or western london ciplak. definitely their internal programs command some standard.i know for a fact that their reluctance in giving first class (degrees) and also the limited number of second uppers to external students are due to them grading the external students based only on a 3 hour unseen written exam. there is no coursework or assignments. hence the reluctance of giving a first class or second upper. and that is why to obtain a first or a second upper u need to write really well.

and i never meant to have the external UOL course compared to the internal UOL course. but if u compare the UOL external in Malaysia to the myriad of twinning programmes by private universities and colleges, it is WAY harder. their course content is lesser and standard is lower. well i never studied in UM b4 but we can see its no longer in the top 200 best Us now... nor are any other local Unis.

the reason UOL allows for easier admission is because they were established that way, since the old times, as an option for those who are not 'upper middle class' who cannot afford to go to Oxford or Cambridge (wikipedia). Easier admission for UOL external NEVER meant easier passes. but its true, lousier students. and hence the high failure rates. that is why it is difficult. imagine doing what the 'elite' internal students are doing.

and im not a UOL mamasan. they dont pay me to advertise their course here. heck, im not even a student. but this is all the info i have gathered before i start my course and some are by reliable sources or reputable persons.

about the 'preference', that is what i heard from some friends who attached at some well-known local firms, each telling me the ongoings within. how true is that, i dont know. just putting out what i heard to share. perhaps some of us here who have attached/chambered/practicing can shed some light huh.

Added on August 19, 2007, 11:13 pm

QUOTE(tiffany teh @ Aug 19 2007, 07:46 PM)

so...what about those twinning programmmes(eg, Inti's twinning)??...is it good??...if you were given a choice..which path will you choose??...towards the twinning or the external one??...

i know someone who is teaching in the UOL LLB external and have taught in the internal 'twinning circles' before. and also part-time tutored inti internal students. lets just say a 55 marks at UOL external LLB is worth a 70 over there. or so the story goes.

but o cos, my friends all say im stupid to choose UOL because its hard. UOL gotta do much more but still have to sit for CLP in the end. better choose the easier option. but i like to have a challenge. i think its known the the legal circle of the diff standards between degrees from diff unis from what i gather. erm, maybe if im too dumb i ll switch somewhere else.

btw, in addition to wornbook reply, i just got to know that to do the BAR in UK, all internal Unis LLB graduates have to have at least a second upper but for UOL external LLB, a second lower will suffice. but this is also what i heard. gotta check with the UK peeps if wanna know better.

the reason UOL allows for easier admission is because they were established that way, since the old times, as an option for those who are not 'upper middle class' who cannot afford to go to Oxford or Cambridge (wikipedia). Easier admission for UOL external NEVER meant easier passes. but its true, lousier students. and hence the high failure rates. that is why it is difficult. imagine doing what the 'elite' internal students are doing.

and im not a UOL mamasan. they dont pay me to advertise their course here. heck, im not even a student. but this is all the info i have gathered before i start my course and some are by reliable sources or reputable persons.

about the 'preference', that is what i heard from some friends who attached at some well-known local firms, each telling me the ongoings within. how true is that, i dont know. just putting out what i heard to share. perhaps some of us here who have attached/chambered/practicing can shed some light huh.

Can't afford it? I thought it was founded for non-anglicans to pursue a tertiary education.........

No one says one is from UOL.......If one studied at King's, one will say I am from King's.

Junelee,First of all, you sounded extremely like an agent pushing his/her course in your previous posts - I think it was 3 posts in 3 seperate threads all extolling the virtues of UOL external LLB. I've made no secret the fact that I dislike agents in general. IMO, they're far too happy to promote their courses with half-truths and even lies, catching unwary students and their parents. So since you're not an agent, I apologise if I cam across as a bit harsh. But I still stand by what I said - maybe the tone could be lowered a little. Anyway, it's hard to get the tone of voice across on the internet. But I digress.

QUOTE

i never said UOL internal is a piece of cake. same standard. different places. this is UOL we are talking about. not some university of eastern or western london ciplak. definitely their internal programs command some standard.i know for a fact that their reluctance in giving first class (degrees) and also the limited number of second uppers to external students are due to them grading the external students based only on a 3 hour unseen written exam. there is no coursework or assignments. hence the reluctance of giving a first class or second upper. and that is why to obtain a first or a second upper u need to write really well.

You need to write really well to get a first or 2:1 in the internal programme as well. And anyway, coursework and assignments in general count for very little in most law degrees (excluding US/Canada). I actually disagree with that but this is irrelevent here. My point is that the 100% exam is less of a disadvantage than you make it out to be.

I think the external students' disadvantage comes from their lack of access to top academics. The people who mark trial papers at ATC, Brickfields whatever are simply not in the same league as the UCL, KCL etc lecturers who mark and grade the internal students year round. And these people will be the ones who mark the final exam for both the internal and external LLB. So the internal students have the advantage of gauging their standards against the expectations of the pros, so to speak. And if they fall below the mark, they know they have to improve. External students lack this.

And then, there's the lower standard of external students on average as well.

QUOTE

and i never meant to have the external UOL course compared to the internal UOL course. but if u compare the UOL external in Malaysia to the myriad of twinning programmes by private universities and colleges, it is WAY harder. their course content is lesser and standard is lower. well i never studied in UM b4 but we can see its no longer in the top 200 best Us now... nor are any other local Unis.

You have to make yourself clearer then. What was I to expect when you pulled up the names of UCL etc to lend support to the external LLB? And there wasn't even a shred of mention of the twinning programmes in your earlier post.

As for UM and other local universities, you don't give them enough justice. First those international rankings are heavily biased towards certain countries. Secondly, ranking are always debatable and not infaliable. And thirdly, I bet those STPM 4.0 students in UM's LLB have a decent chance of getting a 2:1, if not a first, in the law programmes of the so-called top UK universities. Not so for the average external student. It's not fair on UM and other local uni sudents to dismiss their course and all the hadwork they've put in simply on the basis of some 'world rankings'.

QUOTE

the reason UOL allows for easier admission is because they were established that way, since the old times, as an option for those who are not 'upper middle class' who cannot afford to go to Oxford or Cambridge (wikipedia). Easier admission for UOL external NEVER meant easier passes. but its true, lousier students. and hence the high failure rates. that is why it is difficult. imagine doing what the 'elite' internal students are doing.

I never said that it's easier to pass the external programme. What I did say is that I can't imagine it being harder.

It would help if you read the Wikipedia articles you quoted a little more closely. The first 2 colleges of the UOL were UCL and KCL. UCL (known as "London University at that time) was established as a non-religious university, to educate non-Anglicans (as feymann stated) of the "middling rich people". KCL was then established in opposition to UCL's secular nature. In other words, KCL was an institution founded on Anglican principles. It did however, admit "non-conformists". It was only after the merger of the two when the newly-formed University of London began to operate for the benefit of the less-wealthy.

No where in the history of the institutions is there any provision for easier admissions. In those days, admission would have been "easier" anyway, relative to the present, because few people even finished school and the advent of grade-inflation had not arrived. It is quite likely that the lower admission standards remained simply because there was no need to limit the number of students, resource allocation being less of an issue.

QUOTE

i know someone who is teaching in the UOL LLB external and have taught in the internal 'twinning circles' before. and also part-time tutored inti internal students. lets just say a 55 marks at UOL external LLB is worth a 70 over there. or so the story goes.

I'm not surprised. Since they're driven for money and thus the need to pass students.

QUOTE

but o cos, my friends all say im stupid to choose UOL because its hard. UOL gotta do much more but still have to sit for CLP in the end. better choose the easier option. but i like to have a challenge. i think its known the the legal circle of the diff standards between degrees from diff unis from what i gather. erm, maybe if im too dumb i ll switch somewhere else.

I think it's not quite accurate to say that UOL is hard. More like the twinning programmes are easy. The way I see it, UOL's standards are in keeping with proper standards whereas the others are lower than they should be. If you work, hard, you should be ok.

The disadvantage with the UOL external programme is that you won't get a chance to go overseas. The one year's exposure, even in an 'inferior' uni, has the potential to be very very beneficial. Unless going overseas is not an option for you?

QUOTE

btw, in addition to wornbook reply, i just got to know that to do the BAR in UK, all internal Unis LLB graduates have to have at least a second upper but for UOL external LLB, a second lower will suffice. but this is also what i heard. gotta check with the UK peeps if wanna know better.

No. According to the BSB website, the minimum is a 2:2. But a vast majority of students who undertake the BVC will have firsts. Pupillages for barrister training are very very very very competitive and seriously, a student with a 2:2 even from Oxford hasn't a hope in hell of landing a pupillage. The prohibitive cost of the BVC will keep ou students who don't fance their chances from taking it - no point going into massive debt if you won't succeed in the end.

And that's assuming the student even gains admission into the BVC, which is also competitive. They consider more than just grades at the admission stage. It might be different for international students. But as a general rule, BVC applicants and students have either firsts or high 2:1s.

Added on August 20, 2007, 8:16 am

QUOTE(feynman @ Aug 19 2007, 11:18 PM)

No one says one is from UOL.......If one studied at King's, one will say I am from King's.

Incidentally UCL, KCL, and LSE all have degree-granting powers and intend to exercise them from this year onwards. They might soon follow the footsteps of Imperial and leave the UOL entirely.

[quote=wornbook,Aug 20 2007, 08:11 AM]The disadvantage with the UOL external programme is that you won't get a chance to go overseas. The one year's exposure, even in an 'inferior' uni, has the potential to be very very beneficial. Unless going overseas is not an option for you? No. According to the BSB website, the minimum is a 2:2. But a vast majority of students who undertake the BVC will have firsts. Pupillages for barrister training are very very very very competitive and seriously, a student with a 2:2 even from Oxford hasn't a hope in hell of landing a pupillage. The prohibitive cost of the BVC will keep ou students who don't fance their chances from taking it - no point going into massive debt if you won't succeed in the end.

And that's assuming the student even gains admission into the BVC, which is also competitive. They consider more than just grades at the admission stage. It might be different for international students. But as a general rule, BVC applicants and students have either firsts or high 2:1s.

Well actually the entry for the BVC is a minimum of a 2:2, and they are not that strict, well at least for international students for i have a few friends with average 2:2s in there, one has completed and passed her Bar exams at Lincoln's. It is the pupillage that kills, for competition is really really stiff, and is the main deterrent for potential international students intending to do the BVC.

I do agree that the UOL is not "harder" than local or twinning courses, but the hurdles mainly lie in those few days a year, where UOL external students have to sit for an exam, set by a foreign examiner, whom they have probably met at most once, and on which their entire degree is based upon. It is definitely easier to do twinning courses, but then again, the universities will usually look at your A levels before awarding u a transfer, so your ALE/STPM marks count. So if you got two passes which probably allows u to do UOL, it may not be good enough for a Cardiff Uni, or Leeds, or Manchester LLB UK transfer.

It all really depends on what you intend to do, i dun really believe in rankings, well, not if u stay in Malaysia at least. Its not that much of a meritocracy. Every course that you do has pros and cons, whether you want the flexibility and a UK Degree from UOL(which would help if u intend to migrate to UK :-) im considering it), or the local LLB which allows you to learn (in depth) about local laws and practices (constitution) without the need to do the CLP later is all up to you. Arm yourselves with what you think you can use to your best interests.

Well actually the entry for the BVC is a minimum of a 2:2, and they are not that strict, well at least for international students for i have a few friends with average 2:2s in there, one has completed and passed her Bar exams at Lincoln's. It is the pupillage that kills, for competition is really really stiff, and is the main deterrent for potential international students intending to do the BVC.

I stand corrected.

I heard that the locals aren't normally let into the course with the minimum 2:2. Maybe it's simply that 2:2 local students won't even take the course since the likelihood of securing a pupillage is so tiny it's not worth getting into such a huge debt for. As for Malaysian/international students, most intend to practice in foreign jurisdictions so the circumstances are different.

Pupillages - it's tough enough for the locals (UK/EU nationality) and it's next to impossible for Malaysians for various reasons, none the least immigration/work permit laws. The Malaysian candidate will have to be truly exceptional to have a chance of competiting with also exceptional local candidates. Look at these two examples of Malaysians in English chambers - Gareth Wong and Ng Jern Fei. Check out their CVs. How many of us can come even close?

Both re Cambridge graduates and have won numerous scholarships and awards, plus were active in mooting and debating. One also has a Cambridge LLM. And I bet that during their studies, they went out of their way to get relevant work experience and mini-pupillages. I'm sure there's more that's not mentioned.

QUOTE

I do agree that the UOL is not "harder" than local or twinning courses, but the hurdles mainly lie in those few days a year, where UOL external students have to sit for an exam, set by a foreign examiner, whom they have probably met at most once, and on which their entire degree is based upon.

Exactly. That's what I was trying to say but you put it so much more eloquently than me.

Pupillages - it's tough enough for the locals (UK/EU nationality) and it's next to impossible for Malaysians for various reasons, none the least immigration/work permit laws. The Malaysian candidate will have to be truly exceptional to have a chance of competiting with also exceptional local candidates. Look at these two examples of Malaysians in English chambers - Gareth Wong and Ng Jern Fei. Check out their CVs. How many of us can come even close?

Both re Cambridge graduates and have won numerous scholarships and awards, plus were active in mooting and debating. One also has a Cambridge LLM. And I bet that during their studies, they went out of their way to get relevant work experience and mini-pupillages. I'm sure there's more that's not mentioned. Exactly. That's what I was trying to say but you put it so much more eloquently than me.

Personally i fell if u hav the money its better to do the twinning programmes in taylors or help than go to atc or brickfields. these colleges offer better campus life plus they have prestigious twinning partners as in redaing for taylors and manchester and sheffield for help. Even ATC and BAC twinning programmes don't offer such prestigious partners. U can get involved in mooting competitions and debates wic don't normally happen at bac or atc coz their too busy concentratin on exams..........

Plus u can go overseas as compared to the external.....If u dont hav the money, it is betta to do it locally in MMU coz u dont hav to sit for clp n u get involved in 'real' campus life!

Personally i fell if u hav the money its better to do the twinning programmes in taylors or help than go to atc or brickfields. these colleges offer better campus life plus they have prestigious twinning partners as in redaing for taylors and manchester and sheffield for help. Even ATC and BAC twinning programmes don't offer such prestigious partners. U can get involved in mooting competitions and debates wic don't normally happen at bac or atc coz their too busy concentratin on exams..........

Plus u can go overseas as compared to the external.....If u dont hav the money, it is betta to do it locally in MMU coz u dont hav to sit for clp n u get involved in 'real' campus life!

I did share your view on the "campus life" issue, before i registered for UOL external...and i still agree it has the potential to make your university life more fulfilling in terms of a total learning experience, CCAs and so on.

well, im not sure about the environment and everything, but in terms of ranking and prestige, i would say pretty average. Most of the other twinning programmes which involve UK unis would definitely be a better choice, if u want to consider studying in the UK.

well, im not sure about the environment and everything, but in terms of ranking and prestige, i would say pretty average. Most of the other twinning programmes which involve UK unis would definitely be a better choice, if u want to consider studying in the UK.

If possible, go for the red-bricks. There are a surprising number of decent red-brick unis who twin with Malaysian colleges.

Firstly, this post is strictly based on rankings posted by independent sources, and i by no means intend to offend anyone. Just wanted to post some sources in terms of rankings for easy reference if required. :-)

I would definitely agree on UWE and Hertfordshire, though i reckon that Cardiff is definitely a league above the rest of the mentioned universities. In Malaysia, the main UK Law twinning unis one should look at are manchester, leeds, cardiff, sheffield and maybe liverpool, exeter and reading. All these universities rank in and about the top 40 law schools in the UK by Guardian. With the exception of Exeter, they all rank in the THES 2006 top 200 overall university guide (2007 guide not out yet i think). If you look at subject specifically, http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/goodun...sub=21&x=37&y=7, then for law, THES ranks Cardiff at a lowly 38, but still above the universities u mentioned. Im not sure why THES ranks Cardiff so lowly on their law programme, but coupled with the ranking by THES overall and by Guardian, i would definitely say its MUCH better than the others you mentioned.

If you were to refer to the SJTU top 500 university guides, you would see that overall UNI of Tasmania is in the bottom 500 of that list.

If you were to view http://www.australian-universities.com/rankings/, you would see that overall Uni of Tasmania is still average among its other local universities. Honestly i''ve never heard of Flinders university...so something that ranks below it...well!

Basically i did not look at one ranking specifically, i looked at subject specifically and overall, based on the numerous well known ranking sites. Of course all the ones i mentioned are free to view, so feel free. I do not have information from sources that require you to pay. But THES, Guardian and SJTU are highly regarded for their ranking system so i follow them.

Firstly, this post is strictly based on rankings posted by independent sources, and i by no means intend to offend anyone. Just wanted to post some sources in terms of rankings for easy reference if required. :-)

I would definitely agree on UWE and Hertfordshire, though i reckon that Cardiff is definitely a league above the rest of the mentioned universities. In Malaysia, the main UK Law twinning unis one should look at are manchester, leeds, cardiff, sheffield and maybe liverpool, exeter and reading. All these universities rank in and about the top 40 law schools in the UK by Guardian. With the exception of Exeter, they all rank in the THES 2006 top 200 overall university guide (2007 guide not out yet i think). If you look at subject specifically, http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/gug/goodun...sub=21&x=37&y=7, then for law, THES ranks Cardiff at a lowly 38, but still above the universities u mentioned. Im not sure why THES ranks Cardiff so lowly on their law programme, but coupled with the ranking by THES overall and by Guardian, i would definitely say its MUCH better than the others you mentioned.

I agree. I made a mistake including Cardiff in the same list as Northumbria etc. Wasn't thinking straight.

Though I rank Manchester and Leeds slightly above Cardiff and Sheffield. Then comes Liverpool, Exeter and Reading - while not in the same league as Manchester and Leeds, they're pretty good. That's what I meant by red-brick unis, ie pre-1960s unis. All generally well-respected, whether for law or other "traditional" subjects.

i believe that there are many ways in which one can take to pursue a career in the legal field here in Malaysia. You can always apply to local universities to do your law degree after your STPM (which will be an easier route since you do not need to take the CLP) or you can do your A levels and apply for universities (from uk,aust,nz). However, you need good results to even consider better universities.

this is where the UOL external comes in. I believe that there is a lot of talk going on about how difficult the exam is. The main reason why it is difficult is because of the quality of students doing the program. two Es in your A levels is all you need to qualify. However, this is where the problem lies.There are a lot of weak students doing the UOL external LLB and this is reflected in the statistics they show each year (it is shown in the students handbook each year) however, the filtering process begins after the intermediate year. The better students will move on to part 1 and part 2with the other students either getting referrals or repeating the year.

another thing that seems to make it a bit difficult is because of the examinations. 3 hours for each subject and you have to answer 4 questions. one years preparation, reading, understanding ...etc would depend on that 3 hours. Needless to say, many cannot take this pressure. For my intermediate year, we had to take 4 subjects in consecutive days. This demands a great deal of determination and concentration as well.

sincerely, i do not think UOL is difficult. i know because i went through ithowever, it is difficult to get good marks (bs and B+s or the rare As)

don't believe all the rumors about how hard or tough the UOL degree is.

IT IS NOT.

like any other law degree, hard work and good reading and writing skills will eventually reap benefits.

and to be honest, it does not matter where you did you lLB from. If you want to practice here in M'sia, most would do their CLP. Until you pass that paper, nothing really gets going for you. My friend did his LLB from Kings College, another from Tasmania U in Aust. I did mine from UOL. End of the day, all of us had to do the same bloody paper...

the thing is thisno matter where u complete ur degree in law except for local U's u still have to pass ur CLP if u want to practisethats the hard partif u want to be a LLB holder or just a law grad for the sake of good CV any where will do as long as it is recognise to choose between external or internal .... internal definitely easier and that external is all about hardwork determination good writing skills ...if u want easy college life external is definitely out...

yeah, honestly, i agree with the CLP bit, it is definitely the toughest hurdle if u intend to practice. But honestly i am not sure what makes it so difficult...the exam based format? the workload? or the "quota?

Anyway, i again agree that in Malaysia if ur degree is not from a top tier university, then it does not really matter...the rest are the rest. But for ppl like me, who eye possible migration options, then it matters. I admit i care too much about rank and prestige, and i BLAME it on my upbringing in Singapore, the most critical meritocracy society around.

if u are doing external ....maybe ATC still is the better optionif u r doin internal then u have to c wat Uni are they offering...and make some good research on whether it is recognise or not

QUOTE(alsree786 @ Oct 1 2007, 04:24 PM)

yeah, honestly, i agree with the CLP bit, it is definitely the toughest hurdle if u intend to practice. But honestly i am not sure what makes it so difficult...the exam based format? the workload? or the "quota?

Anyway, i again agree that in Malaysia if ur degree is not from a top tier university, then it does not really matter...the rest are the rest. But for ppl like me, who eye possible migration options, then it matters. I admit i care too much about rank and prestige, and i BLAME it on my upbringing in Singapore, the most critical meritocracy society around.

agree with u .... the thing is that if we are going for a larger option in working in other country and stuff we have to get the best recognisable Uni that offers the LLB program.... for me ive done the Uni of London program and its achievable not that difficult in doing it but need hard work and determination...

as for the Clp its hard cause its a subjective format with an obj answer.. cause u need to know every single detail in the statute and the choices of cases are also important ..... if u got a case that is somewhat similar on the issue but it is not in the answer skim then u got no marks for it ...im doin clp nowand its kinda bulky cause the of the memorising stuff that we need to do

abt the quota ....nobody knows abt that ...its a system that is still a mystery on whether there is a quota or not

Anyway, i again agree that in Malaysia if ur degree is not from a top tier university, then it does not really matter...the rest are the rest. But for ppl like me, who eye possible migration options, then it matters. I admit i care too much about rank and prestige, and i BLAME it on my upbringing in Singapore, the most critical meritocracy society around.

IMO, the university prestige factor in migration is over-rated. Unless you're planning to migrate as a fresh grad (next to impossible) and are an international student trying to stay back, it's the work experience that counts. Not the university's name. Who cares whether you came from Oxford or UWE Bristol when you've got 10 years experience at the top end of the market?

And anyway, a first class degree from a mid-tier uni won't be a massive disadvantage in the job market. Sure, Oxbridge on a CV looks great. But employers look at a whole other range of factors... at least, the ones overseas do.

For me, the benefits of going to a top university lies more in the exposure and experience rather than future employability (except for that first job). Better lecturers, resources, peers tend to push students on to greater heights.

IMO, the university prestige factor in migration is over-rated. Unless you're planning to migrate as a fresh grad (next to impossible) and are an international student trying to stay back, it's the work experience that counts. Not the university's name. Who cares whether you came from Oxford or UWE Bristol when you've got 10 years experience at the top end of the market?

And anyway, a first class degree from a mid-tier uni won't be a massive disadvantage in the job market. Sure, Oxbridge on a CV looks great. But employers look at a whole other range of factors... at least, the ones overseas do.

For me, the benefits of going to a top university lies more in the exposure and experience rather than future employability (except for that first job). Better lecturers, resources, peers tend to push students on to greater heights.

I somewht agree with u, but my opinions stem from my experiences in singapore...am still trying to forget it all, but its not working...:-(. If i try to justify my opinions, i'll just get mad at myself.

I already have a degree is Communication but I want to study law and become an attorney

Should I take LLB or do CLP? Which one? By the way, I don't want to be an attorney here but in another country.

err...u need a LLB to do a CLP...the CLP is a practicing certificate that will allow u to be a member of the Malaysian Bar. Since you already have a degree i would suggest doing the UOL external graduate entry route...you can complete ur LLB in two years if u work hard enough! Whether they allow u to pursue that route would depend on the recognition of ur current degree.

And since you want to go overseas doing a local LLb programme with a Local Uni would be pointless coz it takes about 4 years (not sure whether they have a grad entry route) and strictly in my opinion, if u intend to go overseas, it would be better to get a degree from a more internationally recognised Uni.

More importantly, where do u want to go? The Singapore Bar does not recognise twinning and External Law programmes, so u have to check with the local country or state law society/bar assocoiations first before u decide which degree u want to do. Obviously u can do the UK bar that would allow u to practice in a number of countries, but already discussed, this option is becoming increasingly difficult especially for foreign students.

What if one decides to migrate and work in overseas like Australia [I know diff. state,diff. system] ?

Australia prides itself on its own qualifications, so the best bet would to actually do your entire law degree there...IF u can afford it!! If u cant, then the Tasmania LLB via KDU is a good help if u need to score points on the Skills assessment for the Visa.

Australia prides itself on its own qualifications, so the best bet would to actually do your entire law degree there...IF u can afford it!! If u cant, then the Tasmania LLB via KDU is a good help if u need to score points on the Skills assessment for the Visa.

In order to score point,if I'm not mistaken,one has to do at least 2 years of studies in Australia right?

Anyhow,after one has got a LLB,what's next? Say Western Australia..? LOL

Hmmm...they refer specifically to Uk, Australia and New Zealand law programmes, but im not sure for Uni of HK. Should check out with them...

For UK, Australian and NZ LLBs:Singapore Law Society does not recognise External Programmes, Twinning Programmes, Accelerated degree courses or those Law and Accounting/Law and Management degrees for admission into the Singapore Bar except where you obtained your degree before the rules kicked in of which the exact year depends on which category your degree falls in

Graduates from foreign jurisdictions will probably have to re-sit some core LLB papers. Exactly what will depend on where their degrees were awarded. Qualified Aussie lawyers are exempted - they are entitled to practice in NZ (and vice versa).

i want to ask about the route which will i take after SPM this year.. i know it's still centuries after SPM and you may think i am thinking too much, but i always want to make my mind clear and plan properly..

i am planning to become a solicitor in the future, what's the requirement and courses i should take (is it until LLB only?)

which subject should i take in A-Level? (suggest 4 from the below)• Law• Business Studies• Economics• Sociology• Accounting

btw, i am planning to join BAC next year, my trial result is 6A6B (3 1As, 3 2As, 2 3Bs, 4 4Bs) will i be accepted by BAC with this bad result?

i want to ask about the route which will i take after SPM this year.. i know it's still centuries after SPM and you may think i am thinking too much, but i always want to make my mind clear and plan properly..

i am planning to become a solicitor in the future, what's the requirement and courses i should take (is it until LLB only?)

which subject should i take in A-Level? (suggest 4 from the below). Law. Business Studies. Economics. Sociology. Accountingbtw, i am planning to join BAC next year, my trial result is 6A6B (3 1As, 3 2As, 2 3Bs, 4 4Bs) will i be accepted by BAC with this bad result?

hope to hear from you guys asap..

If you have no problems with SPM add maths, take A-level mathematics. Economics and physics are good choices too.

I set my mind to focus on law (such as company law as my main), so i decided to study more on subjects to do with company (business, account, economics) so.. i didn't plan to take maths and physics..

btw, i still need more advises..

Out of the five that you have suggested, you should definitely take law and business if u intend to do the llb. Accounting is relatively simple, so i would suggest that..an easy A. For the other one, well...up to you really, but the three i've mentioned are recommended by moi. Taking A Level Law will help you a little for your first year law, and at least you'll have an insight into the study of law.

Note however, some universities may require you to take General Paper at A levels, so check first.

Out of the five that you have suggested, you should definitely take law and business if u intend to do the llb. Accounting is relatively simple, so i would suggest that..an easy A. For the other one, well...up to you really, but the three i've mentioned are recommended by moi. Taking A Level Law will help you a little for your first year law, and at least you'll have an insight into the study of law.

Note however, some universities may require you to take General Paper at A levels, so check first.

So, do Brickfields require General Paper which you mention?

QUOTE(Tainted @ Nov 6 2007, 09:33 PM)

Why not do pre-law which is also part of A-levels.Subjects are law and history.Duration is 1 yr.

I don't want to do all law-related, i prefer Major Law, Minor Business

umm...if u intend to do the Uni of London external programme....then u do not need GP for A levels. Neither do u need it for twinning programmes...it is only when u enrol directly for internal programmes, mainly overseas that some may require GP, like the NUS Law Programme for example.

umm...if u intend to do the Uni of London external programme....then u do not need GP for A levels. Neither do u need it for twinning programmes...it is only when u enrol directly for internal programmes, mainly overseas that some may require GP, like the NUS Law Programme for example.

why no one think of taylor's ? their law debate *sapu all the private colleges in malaysia inclusive of UM, Uitm

Taylor sucks because they recruit almost every into their campus.. they take weak and rude students in as well.. but i know Taylor have good students and good lecturer as well.. but i dont want to hurt my eyes to watch the lala's in Taylor..

Added on November 8, 2007, 10:40 pmi heard that to become a lawyer got to pass certain degree? what is the minimum degree to qualify as a lawyer and not a clerk work in the law firm? i heard it's something like first degree? not sure..

Taylor sucks because they recruit almost every into their campus.. they take weak and rude students in as well.. but i know Taylor have good students and good lecturer as well.. but i dont want to hurt my eyes to watch the lala's in Taylor..

Added on November 8, 2007, 10:40 pmi heard that to become a lawyer got to pass certain degree? what is the minimum degree to qualify as a lawyer and not a clerk work in the law firm? i heard it's something like first degree? not sure..

LOL~ It's very hard to get first degree. To be a lawyer you need to take CLP, or BAR. And to take CLP u need to get at least second degree for LLB, while if I am not mistaken, the BAR will need at least Second Upper Degree.

LOL~ It's very hard to get first degree. To be a lawyer you need to take CLP, or BAR. And to take CLP u need to get at least second degree for LLB, while if I am not mistaken, the BAR will need at least Second Upper Degree.

i planned to become a solicitor.. so, CLP is not needed, right? or? i don't know.. i am a newbie.. please tell me what to do after spm and the minimum grades needed in each exam until i become a solicitor

i planned to become a solicitor.. so, CLP is not needed, right? or? i don't know.. i am a newbie.. please tell me what to do after spm and the minimum grades needed in each exam until i become a solicitor

You'll still need CLP. Malaysia has a fused legal profession. To qualify as an Advocate and Solicitor, you need both CLP and Chambering. Unless you're in Sabah or Sarawak.

i planned to become a solicitor.. so, CLP is not needed, right? or? i don't know.. i am a newbie.. please tell me what to do after spm and the minimum grades needed in each exam until i become a solicitor

CLP will still be needed if you wanna become a lawyer. However, CLP only can be used in Malaysia I think. If you plan to practise at other country, BAR is recommended.

To take A Level and LLB, 5 credits needed in SPM, and 2 passes needed in A Level. The requirements are still low and easily achieved. After SPM, you can opt to take STPM, SAM or others that qualified.

LOL~ It's very hard to get first degree. To be a lawyer you need to take CLP, or BAR. And to take CLP u need to get at least second degree for LLB, while if I am not mistaken, the BAR will need at least Second Upper Degree.

I always heard second upper level..but what is that axactly? Does that mean C+?? Cause I'm not familiar with this type of the grading system..

For the Uni of London Programme:In an email received their rep informed me that on top of the 4 B+s required for a 2:1, the student needs to hit 450 marks...but many ppl here say that that is not required...so im not sure!! But anyhow, thats what im aiming for....

For the Uni of London Programme:In an email received their rep informed me that on top of the 4 B+s required for a 2:1, the student needs to hit 450 marks...but many ppl here say that that is not required...so im not sure!! But anyhow, thats what im aiming for....

ok. i've just completed 1st year in atc (whtr i will pass the 1st year is another story altogether), and i just received an offer to start 1st year in um law this coming intake. Q is -- which one shud i take?the cheaper route would of course be um, but the faster route (provided i do not stumble at all throughout the 3 years of LLB and miraculously pass CLP on first try) would be the atc route. not tat i'm thrilled and eager to work a year earlier but considering the chambering & getting salary equivalent to a gardener's for 9 whole months, i really don like the idea of having it delayed any further.

quality-wise, would a uol external degree be worth more than um's law degree? wat say in terms of international recognition?

opinions highly appreciated

PS: does anyone wan honest (i do mean honest) opinions on atc? i can offer mine

I'm planning to do LLB at HELP january nx year. however, i wonder if I can apply for any other twinning universities other than their partners?

Can I do at Australia? Spore or somewhere else? I mean complete the third year

IMO that would be rather difficult unless u have extremely high marks...but even then it depends whether the other universities will accept Help internal results. Furthermore, it will also depend on which years are relevant for their honours classifications, so i highly doubt it, though im not very adept with australian law programmes...

does atc provided a 3+0 law programme without going overseas?? if got does both penang and kl campus have such programme?? cause my problem now is, brickfield college prob-- stay plc, brick offer bad environment stay plc, and if private apartment, cost rm500 a room...kdu-- the course fee is SO EXPENSIVEMMU--clp not fully acredited......atc--duno anything bout it.......

i really hope tht someone can provided me info bout atc... bout the fee, the cost of plc to stay, and does both campus offer 3+0 llb??

you do know u can just give them a call right @ 03-2032 2727 for info like these

the fee for the UOL programme are about the same la for most of the colleges give or take maybe Rm1000 for the three years. Total cost for the programme, if taken in 3 years should not exceed RM40k (especially with the recent exchange rate changes in our favour against pounds)

im not sure about accomodation, im a KL boy...so never bothered to check!

yes both campuses offer the LLB, but this is based on an assumption, since they are primarily a Law school.

Hey guys, i need to ask something here to... i just finished a lvls in BAC with 2As and 1B, one thing i need to ask is whether or not i could actually apply for a place in UM instead coz i know A lvls isn't recognisable by local unis...

As for LLBStill i have not decided which college to go since some have said ATC have better reputation for LLB (but i heard a lot of lecturers and students left?).. Mentari seems a little small and one of my friend who took a lvl there shifted to BAC... Nirwana is closing? (last i heard)... the thing is recently BAC produced one guy i know to go to King's College... of coz he himself is pretty smart already... BAC seems to be growing towards a better result? and also i am not very sure about taking LLB since some transfer programmes seems a little more appealing (as in giving more of a campus life)(expensive though)... CLP may also be hell... so i have thought of going for ICSA instead... Any suggestion guys?

can start in ATC, and do the first 2 yrs there. go to mentari for revision if u wan some xtra notes frm the lecturer there.

heard many ppl go there for jurisprudence, company, intelectual property for part 2.

then go bak and graduate w ATC.

this is the 'best of both worlds' plan. u get sumthing more frm the average crowd in ATC in terms of material input, whilst still be able to grad w the premeir private law skool msia -- ATC. without having to let anyone in ur life noe that u ever studied in mentari, but still manage to get the essence frm there.

Some points to note if study in ATC.

1) they are too good in selling.many of times the statistics shown are not the real stats. the failure rate is way higher than wat was perceived in the advertisements2) too many cooks spoil the souptoo many lecturers teaching on one subject matter. the more maybe the merrier but not in this case. in the end, when subjects like trust or jurisprudence wic involves a lot of framings come into places, u get too many frames frm too many diff lecturers. thats how the maj flunk their 2 most difficult subjects for the respective yrs. also, if u are a blamer, who are u gonna blame if they indirectly contributed to ur failure? at least in nirwana for trust, its MuLAri fo sure.3) a foolproof syst is indeed a fool's improve system.ATC market and express in such a way that failing is difficult and if u stay w them, u will just follow the flow and beocme one of their success story in no time. but in reality, its just a syst keep on insisting on improving the fools who believe in it. if u r working in it, perhaps u will noe how much income they gain for repeating students, who tries to improve themselves. go to class every yr and fail every yr. doint the same thing in hope of a diff result.some of the 'mature students' there aren't exactly mature students when they came to ATC. they turn into one after yrs of brewing in ATC.4) newbies lecturerThe only way that ATC could run such big volume on cheap labour costs is to hire newbies. means student who graduated last yr can teach alsmot the many classes this yr. cos its cheap to do so. the first yr wudnt noe. some of the part1 wud noe but they say its a norm, and they are 2 yrs my senior anyway so they'd better be good. the part 2 will dislike and complain but eventually after 4 months and exams nearer they gave up complaining and just change to the part 1 mindset.

I'm also from BAC.Most probably will be sticking to it for my final year of LLB.

Ms.Eunice teaching Tort has a LLM.Ms.Chanteney teaching Business Studies has a MBA and PhD if i'm not mistaken.There r a few PhD holders also which i can't really remember eg.Dr.AnandMs.Puvanes is DAMN good and if i'm not mistaken, she's from ATC. She taught me Criminal and Trust tutorials before.

I'm also from BAC.Most probably will be sticking to it for my final year of LLB.

Ms.Eunice teaching Tort has a LLM.Ms.Chanteney teaching Business Studies has a MBA and PhD if i'm not mistaken.There r a few PhD holders also which i can't really remember eg.Dr.AnandMs.Puvanes is DAMN good and if i'm not mistaken, she's from ATC. She taught me Criminal and Trust tutorials before.Btw, Murali is in Mentari the last i've heard.

when he left Nirwana, he went to do a lil trick w BAC on revision, temporary basis.

But frm wat seem to be, BAC will not get him for permanent, for certain reasons already known to many.

Added on August 21, 2008, 12:17 pm

QUOTE(cfwhy @ Aug 13 2008, 02:33 PM)

Hey guys, i need to ask something here to... i just finished a lvls in BAC with 2As and 1B, one thing i need to ask is whether or not i could actually apply for a place in UM instead coz i know A lvls isn't recognisable by local unis...

As for LLBStill i have not decided which college to go since some have said ATC have better reputation for LLB (but i heard a lot of lecturers and students left?).. Mentari seems a little small and one of my friend who took a lvl there shifted to BAC... Nirwana is closing? (last i heard)... the thing is recently BAC produced one guy i know to go to King's College... of coz he himself is pretty smart already... BAC seems to be growing towards a better result? and also i am not very sure about taking LLB since some transfer programmes seems a little more appealing (as in giving more of a campus life)(expensive though)... CLP may also be hell... so i have thought of going for ICSA instead... Any suggestion guys?

cfwhy...

LLB UOL is really do able. and ur scores are good. screw the IPTAs, wats campus life? so many of them had it and came out jobless. none of the UOL peeps has this unemployed prob. u wan campus life or working life?

read the original law of LLB, and the best way to do it in malaysia is UOL ext syst.

And for that u do, u dun have a campus life, but u have a social life, and u will have a working life. not a jobless life wanting to work.

Duh..i've never seen him there and of course i've never step foot in the college for so long since after exams..And i'm not a CLP student yet of course i dunno who is that. He taught before in ATC isn't it then he went and started Nirwana

Duh..i've never seen him there and of course i've never step foot in the college for so long since after exams..And i'm not a CLP student yet of course i dunno who is that. He taught before in ATC isn't it then he went and started Nirwana

harcharan Singh is the General manager of BAC. he may be active in CLP but he is certainly dominant in BAC as a whole. maybe as a student, what you say is effortless la cos u r the customer? or Perhaps the GM gave out wrong info as compared to ur 'never step foot' arguments. but if wat HS say is wrong, then he can be sued. But if wat u say is wrong, its ok, cos customer is awis right even if u r fundamentally flawed.

harcharan Singh is the General manager of BAC. he may be active in CLP but he is certainly dominant in BAC as a whole. maybe as a student, what you say is effortless la cos u r the customer? or Perhaps the GM gave out wrong info as compared to ur 'never step foot' arguments. but if wat HS say is wrong, then he can be sued. But if wat u say is wrong, its ok, cos customer is awis right even if u r fundamentally flawed.

but i dun think this is a big issue to keep pin pointing about. MK x matters now. yea he taught for 16 yrs in ATC. and started and ended a detached law dept/career in Nirwana in the duration of 2 yrs. that's close to 18 yrs teaching in higher institute, still consider impressive.?

o_O now i'm really getting confused to what u r saying in ur 1st paragraph..i've been there since a'lvls and i didn't know he's the GM there whilst i'm pretty sure that i know who is the CEO,COO,principal and obviously the one who owns the college.

o_O now i'm really getting confused to what u r saying in ur 1st paragraph..i've been there since a'lvls and i didn't know he's the GM there whilst i'm pretty sure that i know who is the CEO,COO,principal and obviously the one who owns the college.

since u r there, why not just go and check it out if he is the GM? and ask him the same questions if u really have to noe. it seems that whether MK was there or not, is not a concern for me.

I just dun get it why u have this obsession to have to find out where he is. not like he is even a great lecturer to begin with.

since u r there, why not just go and check it out if he is the GM? and ask him the same questions if u really have to noe. it seems that whether MK was there or not, is not a concern for me. But let me tell u this, who ever told u mentari had/ve MK, is wrong.

I just dun get it why u have this obsession to have to find out where he is. not like he is even a great lecturer to begin with.

well, i will when my intake starts (:it doesn't concern me either because i just said i heard from a friend only.well i didn't start this peace out~

500 meters away from BAC is Methodist College KL, next to Tun Sambanthan station. This year, 20% of their A Levels students obtained 4As and a further 13% got 3As. That means 1/3 of students got 3As or more. Impressive because none are JPA scholars to start off with, unlike other colleges.

And fees are generally cheaper partly because they are still part of the Methodist church. I heard they come down hard on those students who are lazy.

hey guys,if i plan to do LLB but at last i fail my CLP.wat can i do?can i do any job o jus the job related to legal?????

u can keep repeating ur CLP until eventually u pass, of cos within the given time frame and attempts, or choose to do ICSA.

u can also work as a lecturer of law, work in Intelectual property field, work in trust and securities, join the police, be a politician (preferbably w additional LLM), work in bank/insurance corp, or any corp, esp if u have good results.

quote=junelee,Aug 19 2007, 11:56 AM]Hi everyone. Im also contemplating to be a legal eagle. I actually went around asking current and ex-students of various places which offer law degree courses.

First thing i hear is that UOL external LLB is the most difficult and highest standard of the law degrees you can get in this region. Forget about UM, UiTm or UIA. there is only 1 or 2 first classes for UOL every year. and they are HARD. (or at least that was what i was told, even by practicing lawyers which actually prefers external students over internal students).

For UOL external LLB, places around KL which provide courses for them are ATC, Brickfields, Mentari School of Law, KDU and Nirwana. Erm, out of the 5, KDU only has about less than 10 students per batch and Nirwana has about 20 or so for the whole course. or that was what I was told. So, maybe a bit lonely la if i go thr.

ATC has the biggest crowd, due to their long standing reputation. but i also heard that last year, quite a number of lecturers actually left. So like sophie said, sounds like there's some problem. but i dont know la. From what I gather, some lecturers went to Nirwana while some to Mentari. But I got to know that the head lecturer for Jurisprudence went to Mentari la. and from what i could gather, all first class graduates actually scored an A for jurisprudence. i actually got acquainted with the last first class from malaysia for UOL la and she is teaching in Mentari. she told me that to get a first class, must get A for jurisprudence and she credited her A to this Jurisprudence guy.

For Brickfields, they never appealed to me la. they got huge CLP course la but i never hear any great results from their LLB course. but they are the most convenient place i guess, cos they are near to KL sentral.

Im also in a dillemma now. but i guess the key choices for me are actually mentari, atc and brickfields, tho i think i ll look into their results to make a choice la. but i think mentari seems not bad la, cos my friend is studying there and she says lecturers there are always willing to help. waiting for each of their open days to check em out.

Yes Mr. Tan in Mentari was from ATC (Used to be Head of LLB there) and yes, he is the best for Jurisprudence. Or at least if you compare to freshies with a B and a C in ATC.

On a side note, I like Zohan. His news are comparatively accurate and he knows that the so-called 'big guns' are sometimes actually just relying heavily on their superb marketing abilities and the occassional 'Star students' which appears mainly from the sheer bulk of their students.

That said, this is my (personal) opinion on choices for UOL External LLB:

ATC:Pro: A more decent campus life than the others (Clubs, Moot Competitions and etc). More students meaning more chicks and better social life. Very well-known. Frequently produce top students (First Class and Second Upper). Con: Not-so-easy access to lecturers/tutors due to the sheer bulk. Too many lecturers (Like someone said earlier - too many cooks spoil the soup). A lot of freshies and some particularly unimpressive ones. A few top students do not mean that most are also top students.

BAC: Pro: I don't really know except that it has a lot of scholarships available and it is as established as ATC is. The CLP thr is definitely more renowned. I am not sure if I can say the same for their LLB. I was informed (hopefully not erroneously) last year that the college (considering it's size) only produced 1 or 2 Second Uppers while ATC has 30 or so and Mentari has 5-6. - The area there is very accessible tho. And there are good curry houses nearby. Con: Besides the King Scholar, I cant seem to see if their academic performance is all that strong but correct if I am wrong 'cos after all I dont know many from there who did or are doing LLB. Most of them are pursuing the CLP there.

Mentari:Pro: I have to say that it is more about exams than it is about campus life. With a small crowd, studying is conducive and the lecturers/tutors are more readily accessible. A popular place for part-timers and serious students (geeks). Academic performance has been interestingly well for a small place (where there is a substantial number of repeating students from other colleges) which has been able to produce results capable of challenging, if not dethroning, the 'big guns' by proportion.Con: Not-so-much campus life. Not a popular place for the young ones who are more keen to chill and socialize. Still relatively new and not-so-well known to those who are outside of the legal education industry.

Nirwana:Pro: No comment. Con: Not-so-impressive reputation. Zohan has already put it in his 'Mulari' post. With MK gone, the attraction is being diminished.

KDU: Pro: A lot of chicks. A big name. Cool. Con: The UOL External seems more of a 'side-dish' to accompany the twinning LLB programmes (Oxford Brookes if I'm not mistaken). I was told by former students of poor academic performance but won't say so as I never studied there.

And that is my opinion. Of course, it could be bias or erroneous but it is my personal opinion based what I know, heard of or has been told. The best way to know is to go and attend their open days and see for yourself. Gather the background of those teaching and consult them to see if you like their voices (which should not be retarded or can cause insomniacs to go nitey-nite. Also, a good way of knowing the quality of the place is to consult the students who are or were studying there and see what they have to say about the place. Ask not 1 or 2 but 9 to 10 and you can roughly have a picture of how the place is like.

This post has been edited by Legum Baccalaureus: Aug 30 2008, 04:05 PM

Yes Mr. Tan in Mentari was from ATC (Used to be Head of LLB there) and yes, he is the best for Jurisprudence. Or at least if you compare to freshies with a B and a C in ATC.

On a side note, I like Zohan. His news are comparatively accurate and he knows that the so-called 'big guns' are sometimes actually just relying heavily on their superb marketing abilities and the occassional 'Star students' which appears mainly from the sheer bulk of their students.

That said, this is my (personal) opinion on choices for UOL External LLB:

ATC:Pro: A more decent campus life than the others (Clubs, Moot Competitions and etc). More students meaning more chicks and better social life. Very well-known. Frequently produce top students (First Class and Second Upper). Con: Not-so-easy access to lecturers/tutors due to the sheer bulk. Too many lecturers (Like someone said earlier - too many cooks spoil the soup). A lot of freshies and some particularly unimpressive ones. A few top students do not mean that most are also top students.

BAC: Pro: I don't really know except that it has a lot of scholarships available and it is as established as ATC is. The CLP thr is definitely more renowned. I am not sure if I can say the same for their LLB. I was informed (hopefully not erroneously) last year that the college (considering it's size) only produced 1 or 2 Second Uppers while ATC has 30 or so and Mentari has 5-6. - The area there is very accessible tho. And there are good curry houses nearby. Con: Besides the King Scholar, I cant seem to see if their academic performance is all that strong but correct if I am wrong 'cos after all I dont know many from there who did or are doing LLB. Most of them are pursuing the CLP there.

Mentari:Pro: I have to say that it is more about exams than it is about campus life. With a small crowd, studying is conducive and the lecturers/tutors are more readily accessible. A popular place for part-timers and serious students (geeks). Academic performance has been interestingly well for a small place (where there is a substantial number of repeating students from other colleges) which has been able to produce results capable of challenging, if not dethroning, the 'big guns' by proportion.Con: Not-so-much campus life. Not a popular place for the young ones who are more keen to chill and socialize. Still relatively new and not-so-well known to those who are outside of the legal education industry.

Nirwana:Pro: No comment. Con: Not-so-impressive reputation. Zohan has already put it in his 'Mulari' post. With MK gone, the attraction is being diminished.

KDU: Pro: A lot of chicks. A big name. Cool. Con: The UOL External seems more of a 'side-dish' to accompany the twinning LLB programmes (Oxford Brookes if I'm not mistaken). I was told by former students of poor academic performance but won't say so as I never studied there.

And that is my opinion. Of course, it could be bias or erroneous but it is my personal opinion based what I know, heard of or has been told. The best way to know is to go and attend their open days and see for yourself. Gather the background of those teaching and consult them to see if you like their voices (which should not be retarded or can cause insomniacs to go nitey-nite. Also, a good way of knowing the quality of the place is to consult the students who are or were studying there and see what they have to say about the place. Ask not 1 or 2 but 9 to 10 and you can roughly have a picture of how the place is like.

Lol...all about chicks huh?But as I know, KDU in penang aint offering law after pre law course...so, anyone in penang shud take note of this as well...

Can forget bout nirwana... My news frm Nirwana are largely from a tutor so i think can be relied. also, Thanks LLB for endorsing the accuracy of my posts.i have heard of Mentari's stats stunning last yr... anyone here can update for us this yr? or the general performance of private law skols dis yr?

v have a 1st class in ATC here this yr, but like i said earlier, the few points showed u the place is not the sole contributor to its good results.

it depends la...whether there are 1st class or not....its still depend much on individual...no doubt,the environment and lecturers play a big part...but if u urself din put in effort, nver expect u can score well even if there are bunch of 1st class student....

Once i get the full picture, I will update the stats for Brickfields, ATC and Mentari, Nirwana and if possible KDU. Now the news are still pouring for me. haha.

solstice is correct. 1st Class is individual. I know this year's 1st Class and some other previous UOL First Classes personally. They are freaks. Sorry. Its true, they are so damn disciplined and dedicated and of course, brilliant. (But its not like I am jealous 'cos I didn't get a First in my time =P).

No effort (or more correctly - PROPER effort) = no results. A lot of students just dont learn. haha.

To students who will be sitting for Part 2 Jurisprudence and Legal Theory in 2009, Dr. Siva Ananthan, founder of ATC Law School and Nirwana Institute will be conducting a special tutorial class thoughout the next semester for those who are looking to gain a better understanding of Jurisprudence. As you should know, this is a compulsory subject in Part 2 and is one of the subjects with the highest failing rates.

If you are interested in knowing more about this tutorial class,i.e, price, location etc. please send me a message with your contact details and I will call you to explain further. If you have inquiries on other subjects, please also message me and I will get back to you.

To students who will be sitting for Part 2 Jurisprudence and Legal Theory in 2009, Dr. Siva Ananthan, founder of ATC Law School and Nirwana Institute will be conducting a special tutorial class thoughout the next semester for those who are looking to gain a better understanding of Jurisprudence. As you should know, this is a compulsory subject in Part 2 and is one of the subjects with the highest failing rates.

If you are interested in knowing more about this tutorial class,i.e, price, location etc. please send me a message with your contact details and I will call you to explain further. If you have inquiries on other subjects, please also message me and I will get back to you.

Email: doglover_kelly@yahoo.com

Siva is not the most reliable person on earth.

The many earlier posts in this thread, already told us tat he is a con artist.

ATC got one out of 2 First class honour in the world....one from ATC and another one from a student studying in Pakistan.

While...

BAC got the king scholar this year....

if not mistaken, every year, there is a scholarship opened to students who are studying LLB under UOL to proceed their final 2 years in King's College....out of 13 scholarship offered in the last 13 years, ATC won 11....