Madina Archives

Secondly: does your behaviour change if you are at a table/floor with non-Muslims, or Muslims who do/do not use their fingers?

Thirdly: is it *really* Sunnah to do so, or can you substitute your fingers with a spoon/fork/utensil etc? (not your *personal* opinion, maybe someone can help out with a scholarly opinion?)

I have met many people who frown upon others eating with their fingers, saying that the only reason the Prophet (saws) did this, was because they didnt have any forks back then...but they did have knives right? ;)

Most people I meet from Indo/Pakistan eat by hand. Even at weddings and fancy do's like that. Whereas the Arab Muslims think it to be uncultured...most non-Muslims I know think our food *tastes* better when they use their fingers... 8)

I am irritated that this question comes up so frequently, and thought I would gather some other opinions and views inshaAllah. ::)

SalamShahida

Re: Eating by hand?

tq

08/14/03 at 08:57:39

Assalamo elikuim

Firstly: do you do it? (eat using your fingers that is)

Yes and no, it depends on what it is (if is dal(lentil) and rice and then ofcourse i eat by hand instead of fork or spoon.) Actually it depends on my mood :)

Secondly: does your behaviour change if you are at a table/floor with non-Muslims, or Muslims who do/do not use their fingers? YWhen I was working I used fork/spoon for rice but not with roti(pita/bread) One of my brother was eating at his work and his coworker said you know we have some fork/spoon in the drawers :)

cant answer third question :) Inshallah some knowledgeable brother or sister can

wasalamtq

Re: Eating by hand?

sofia

08/14/03 at 10:42:01

As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah,

Although we're a naan & roti eating family, I've finally figured out how to eat rice with fingers by eating so much of it at friends' who also eat rice with their fingers. I used to be a mess (ok, still am), but there's no other way to eat roti/naan. :) Rice took some getting used to (we still rarely eat it). In public, I'll still eat rice with utensils, b/c again, I'm a mess. But hands with naan/pizza/etc. There's no other way. Come to think of it, I eat mostly finger-foods. Which is not something I enjoy eating in public, anyhow, but different story.

Side comment: my mom used to make homemade naan like every other day, until a certain someone (saadia!) got her into this whole low-carb thing. Whatever.

:)

08/14/03 at 10:43:47

sofia

Re: Eating by hand?

Tesseract

08/14/03 at 14:41:18

Wa'alaikum Assalam wa rahmatullah,

[quote]Thirdly: is it *really* Sunnah to do so, or can you substitute your fingers with a spoon/fork/utensil etc? (not your *personal* opinion, maybe someone can help out with a scholarly opinion?) [/quote]

My limited knowledge says that it IS *sunnah* to use ur hands to eat, and particularly using 3 fingers to eat which if I don't remember incorrectly, are the thumb, the index finger and the middle finger. Also, what I know of, is that it is allowed to use fork/spoon/knife to eat, and if u notice, one uses his/her same 3 fingers that I mentioned above, to hold a spoon or a fork while eating, so that fulifils the sunnah of using 3 fingers while eating. Some people might use 2 fingers (thumb and index finger) to hold a spoon/fork, but those are different ways people have been taught or have learnt to hold spoon/fork. Allahu A'lam. I'll confirm my answer with my sheikh InshaAllah and post back.

Wassalam.

Re: Eating by hand?

timbuktu

08/15/03 at 01:29:04

[slm][quote author=sofia link=board=madrasa;num=1060861013;start=0#2 date=08/14/03 at 10:42:01] ........... but there's no other way to eat roti/naan. [/quote]

i prefer to eat without getting food on my fingers, ie fork, spoon & knife. Of course, i lick my fingers when they do (get food on them, like when i am eating mangoes).

Ah! the delight of eating mangoes. It is the Chaunsa season now, & someone has presented me with the choicest Chaunsa from Multan.

To those from the sub-continent, do you get Pakistani mangoes where you live?

& to those who haven't had our mangoes: "you ain't tasted nothin' yet".

to get back to the quote: i sometimes eat roti & salan with fork & knife. invariably more so with parathas, because they are oily.

but halwa puri: that i have to eat with fingers.

i disapprove of ppl who get messy, but fortunately when food is in front of me, i normally don't look at others. one point on which i am constantly lectured by my wife. "u should be watching & making sure the guests are eating properly", according to her.

& to the 3rd question: yes it is Sunnah, & you made me feel guilty there.

08/17/03 at 03:11:36

timbuktu

Re: Eating by hand?

WhatDFish

08/15/03 at 11:00:21

[slm]

mashaa'Allah homemade naan!! sis sofia, how do u do it? i wanna learn or rather ask my sister to learn how to make it so that i can have naan every other day :). do u have a small tandoor at home? or do u use an oven. pardon my ignorance when it comes to cookin, bakin etc cos from the lil i know the naan wouldnt turn out right in an oven, would it?

to answer sis Shahidas questions

i use my hands most of the time for rice or roti, even if im at work with non-muslims. abt arabs using forks/spoons, i only learnt abt it a few years ago and theyre not comfortable using their hands for rice excepts for saudis. an algerian bro i had suhur with in a rest in makkah told me this.

and yesss food definately tastes better or at least ur meal is more satisfying when you use your hands.

Re: Eating by hand?

jannah

08/16/03 at 04:39:30

[wlm]

[quote]y limited knowledge says that it IS *sunnah* to use ur hands to eat,[/quote]

I've heard some scholarly discourse on this topic. Basically there is a category of things called "cultural sunnahs" like certain clothes, using hands, sitting on the floor to eat, sleeping on the floor etc. They are things that the prophet [saw] did but there is no legislation on it nor was it ever recommended or even mentioned.

So when you say it's "sunnah" someone might think if they do this they will be particularly "rewarded" for copying the cultural habits of the prophet [saw] and the sahabah, but this may not be the case.

The same scholars mention that if you are trying to humble yourself or want to change your habits to be just like the prophet [saw]'s habits out of love or something then there's no harm in it.

So when you say it's "sunnah" someone might think if they do this they will be particularly "rewarded" for copying the cultural habits of the prophet [saw] and the sahabah, but this may not be the case.

[/quote]

I beg to differ. I believe the whole mission of a believer's life is to imitate the Holy Prophet, cultural or otherwise, to the *minutest* detail possible. And every such act of imitation is rewarded like any other ibaadat.

Re: Eating by hand?

jannah

08/16/03 at 11:58:18

[wlm]

If you do that Jaihoon you're making Islam a culture and not a deen based upon principles and texts. Things that are cultural to the Arabs and the Prophet [saw] are NOT legislated. And if you make them legislated you are adding things to Islam and making it more difficult for people.

Re: Eating by hand?

superFOB

08/16/03 at 12:12:50

[slm]

Very firm and resolved statement, i must say. I do not doubt that you have strong arguments to back up your point of view, but won't you give us the allowance of practising sunnah according to what we consider mustahib and highly rewarding and not just a cultural by product?

Btw, have you ever tried eating with your hands (especially rice)? Please do cive it a shot, with an open mind of course.

Re: Eating by hand?

timbuktu

08/16/03 at 12:45:26

[slm] This is a very interesting subject. I never really heard this type of argument., or rather I may have heard but not paid any attention to. So will sis jannah plz tell us what Sunnah is, & how does one differentiate the cutural from the deen, & the proof for making such a distinction?

If you do that Jaihoon you're making Islam a culture and not a deen based upon principles and texts. Things that are cultural to the Arabs and the Prophet [saw] are NOT legislated. And if you make them legislated you are adding things to Islam and making it more difficult for people. [/quote]

The Sun shines for the whole of mankind, not for just a race.

... so did Sirajul Muneer [saw]. His injuctions were universal. There are many instances where he avoided many cultural practices prevalent among Arabs. Racism was one of them, which has again picked up its head in the name of pan-Arabism

Re: Eating by hand?

sofia

08/16/03 at 14:42:15

As-salaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullah,

[quote]mashaa'Allah homemade naan!! sis sofia, how do u do it? i wanna learn or rather ask my sister to learn how to make it so that i can have naan every other day . do u have a small tandoor at home? or do u use an oven. pardon my ignorance when it comes to cookin, bakin etc cos from the lil i know the naan wouldnt turn out right in an oven, would it? [/quote]

How do *I* do it? :-/ <= that would be my family & friends laughing. I've actually never tried making naan yet, but it's something my mother does quite well, masha'Allah. It's not tandoori naan, unfortunately, don't have a tandoor oven, but good, nonetheless. She adds yeast, milk, etc, to it and makes it on the stove top (better with gas than electric grills, according to her). Sorry couldn't be of more help.

[quote] I believe the whole mission of a believer's life is to imitate the Holy Prophet, cultural or otherwise, to the *minutest* detail possible. And every such act of imitation is rewarded like any other ibaadat. [/quote]

Maybe the issue here, if I understand correctly, is just one of Fard (obligatory) versus Mustahab (recommended). If a fard act is legislated for something, than it's sinful not to do it, and rewardable if done. If you do a mustahab act, it's also rewarded (may or may not be at the same level of doing fard), but the main difference is, you're not necessarily punished for not doing it. Allahu A'lim, I really don't know the legislation for this issue, whether eating with fingers is mustahab or mubah (allowed; not necessarily rewarded/punished for doing/not doing), etc.

[quote]i disapprove of ppl who get messy[/quote]Yes, sir, I have to work on that. :) I think the hadith states something like, eat with 2-3 fingers, and anything more than that is a form of gluttony. Allahu A'lim, has been a while since I read that particular hadith, not sure if its exact wording, connotation or authenticity.

08/16/03 at 14:48:16

sofia

Re: Eating by hand?

Halima

08/19/03 at 05:52:49

Eating with hands is as normal as breathing to us Somalis. It is both cultural and also the Sunnah. And we love to eat as a group, all hands in one plate either sitting down or a mat or at a table.

But we do also eat with spoons, forks and knives even at home though not more often but according to one's choice. I do eat with using spoons, forks and knives when I am dinning with non-Muslims. But there have been countless times when the non-Muslims including whites have eaten with their hands at tables with delight.

It all depends on what you are comfortable with. Among the Muslim community in Kenya, eating with hand is normal, the Somalis, the Swahilis, the Hindu, Pakistanis, etc.

Halima

Re: Eating by hand?

BroHanif

08/19/03 at 13:58:40

Salaams,

[quote]certain clothes, using hands, sitting on the floor to eat[/quote]

Dearest sis, some of these iteams are sunnah, tables were around at the time of the prophet [saw].

A rather sad story, at hajj time while I was at Madina, I said to my party or family party that whatever happens I'm going to eat on the floor and not on the table. I sat on the floor in nearly every restaraunt and told em this is the city of my beloved and I will do as the Sunnah says. The number of stares I got from the people when I did this was out of the ordinary. Anyway I felt a whole lot better when I did it!.

Salaams

Hanif

Re: Eating by hand?

se7en

08/19/03 at 15:09:43

as salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

I think the confusion here is what is meant by the word Sunnah. It has different meanings, depending on the context. In Usul, 'sunnah' means *anything* Rasulullah [saw] said, did, or tacitly approved of. In terms of Fiqh, it actually has a different meaning, one of Shari'i value, synonymous with mustahaab [a recommended action] and therefore has different implications.

As well, there are two types or categories of Sunnah: Legislative Sunnah [Sunnah tashriyyah] and Non-legislative Sunnah [Sunnah ghayr tashriyyah]

Here's some explanation from part of an article from the WitnessPioneer website:

[color=black]A very important classification is legal and non-legal Sunnah. Legal Sunnah (Sunnah tashriyyah) consists of the Prophetic activities and instructions of the Prophet (sm) as the Head of the State and as Judge. Non-legal Sunnah (Sunnah Ghayr tashriyyah) mainly consist of the natural activities of the Prophet (Al-afal-al-jibilliyyah), such as the manner in which he ate, slept, dressed and such other activities which do not form a part of Shariah. This is called adat (habit) of the Prophet in the Nurul Anwar, a text-book of Usul. Certain activities may fall in between the two. Only competent scholars can distinguish the two in such areas. Sunnah which partake of technical knowledge such as medicine, agriculture is not part of Shariah according to most scholars. As for the acts and sayings of the Prophet that related to particular circumstances such as the strategy of war, including such devices that misled the enemy forces, timing of attact, siege or withdrawal, these too are considered to be situational and not a part of the Shariah. [/color]

more @ http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vschool/DgroupJurisprudence/

w'Allahu a'lam.

wasalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah :-)

Re: Eating by hand?

Trustworthy

08/19/03 at 15:57:59

[slm]

That makes sense.

Fard: Must and punished when not doneSunnah: Should but not punished if you don'tMustahab: Recommended also not punished if you don't

For example...making wudhu. There are 20 steps all together if you include the fard, sunnah, and mustahab.

All acts are rewarded.

I eat with my right hand. And I lick my fingers. So what. It's very clean. But I can't seem to use 3 fingers, I use my whole hand. Finger foods. I consider rice a finger food. Course soup, I use a spoon. Now what did the Prophet [saw] did when he ate soup? Ahhh...bread. What about soup that don't need bread like broth....slurp the bowl? What about when sharing the soup?

It's basic common sense. You know when to use a utensil and you know when you can use your hands.

Ma-asalaama.....

Re: Eating by hand?

Trustworthy

08/19/03 at 16:00:18

[slm]

btw....I did not mean to sound like a know it all just then. Not my intention. It's out of habit. Sorry.