As does jerking off to Hitomi Tanaka? Not being a feminazi here, just a joke

I don't see the point in marriage, it wouldn't matter to me before or after. I wouldn't see the point in getting married anyway (despite my slightly ironic engagement lol). That's all I see marriage as - a representation of the importance it had in the past but basically irrelevant now apart from it being a way of showing your commitment publicly. As you can divorce (and I've seen people getting screwed over by divorce) it doesn't even protect you legally much.

(Original post by Sprockette)
As does jerking off to Hitomi Tanaka? Not being a feminazi here, just a joke

I don't see the point in marriage, it wouldn't matter to me before or after. I wouldn't see the point in getting married anyway (despite my slightly ironic engagement lol). That's all I see marriage as - a representation of the importance it had in the past but basically irrelevant now apart from it being a way of showing your commitment publicly. As you can divorce (and I've seen people getting screwed over by divorce) it doesn't even protect you legally much.

Countrys with a "normal" familly" tend to have less petty crime and social problems though.

Personal choice, agree with the poster above who mentioned being in a stable, commited relationship. If you are settled with your partner, I honestly don't believe that the marriage certificate suddenly makes a whole lot of difference.

I got married when I was five months pregnant, we just thought, let's do it. Close family and longtime friends only, registry office then meal. There again, we aren't big wedding or occasion type people, so it suited us and just seemed like an opportune time to get married.

I wouldn't say that we got married because I was pregnant, we had lived together for a time, it just seemed like as good a time as any.

Well I don't want kids and am not sure I want to get married either, but both of my cousins recently had babies: cousin one is married to the father whereas cousin two isn't but both couples have been together roughly as long as each other. Cousin one is fairly big on her traditional values and had a big white wedding in a church and everything. Cousin two has no plans to get married at all as far as I know.
There aren't any problems with what either cousin has chosen to do, they just chose what they thought was best for them, and for their other halves (cousin two's boyfriend has the same attitude to marriage as she does).

For me, I'm not even sure I want to have children yet. However, I am sure I want to get married provided I find the right person. So it's a no-brainer for me.

Also, I remember reading about a study that found that children born into a family with two married parents were more likely to achieve well at school and less likely to get involved in crime (or something along those lines). It (in general) provides a more stable base for a family and I'd want any children I have to have that.

(Original post by RedDevilThing)
Also, I remember reading about a study that found that children born into a family with two married parents were more likely to achieve well at school and less likely to get involved in crime (or something along those lines). It (in general) provides a more stable base for a family and I'd want any children I have to have that.

This was pretty much a storyline of a Scrubs episode once, then Dr Cox told JD that the statistics don't matter on an individual basis, all that matters is how good a parent you are...

(Original post by RedDevilThing)
For me, I'm not even sure I want to have children yet. However, I am sure I want to get married provided I find the right person. So it's a no-brainer for me.

Also, I remember reading about a study that found that children born into a family with two married parents were more likely to achieve well at school and less likely to get involved in crime (or something along those lines). It (in general) provides a more stable base for a family and I'd want any children I have to have that.

you don't have to be married for your child to be born into a family with two parents though you just have to be together

(Original post by minimarshmallow)
This was pretty much a storyline of a Scrubs episode once, then Dr Cox told JD that the statistics don't matter on an individual basis, all that matters is how good a parent you are...

I don't watch Scrubs, so I have no idea who the characters you are on about are, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way round. Individual cases don't matter statistically speaking, but one of the main purposes of statistics is to draw conclusions from them and predict future events. In my view, that means it can matter on an individual level. If I know that my child is more likely to be happy, law-abiding, etc. during their childhood because his/her parents are married, then that may influence my decision to get married. It may have no effect on a child's development whatsoever, but I think it's dangerous to dismiss reliable statistics.

(Original post by boba)
you don't have to be married for your child to be born into a family with two parents though you just have to be together

Very true. But the study (if I remember correctly) found that statistically there is a difference between families with married parents, and families with co-habiting parents that are not married.

(Original post by RedDevilThing)
I don't watch Scrubs, so I have no idea who the characters you are on about are, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way round. Individual cases don't matter statistically speaking, but one of the main purposes of statistics is to draw conclusions from them and predict future events. In my view, that means it can matter on an individual level. If I know that my child is more likely to be happy, law-abiding, etc. during their childhood because his/her parents are married, then that may influence my decision to get married. It may have no effect on a child's development whatsoever, but I think it's dangerous to dismiss reliable statistics.

JD is the main character, Dr Cox is his mentor, it's not really important.
The main message was that you shouldn't feel the need to get married because you think it will make you a better parent - your ability as a parent is not going to be different because you've got a piece of paper saying that you're married to the other parent of your child. Obviously it could affect your decision to get married before you're pregnant (or your girlfriend is pregnant - I'm not sure if you're male or female) but once a baby is on the way or is there, you're either (going to be) a good parent or you're not.

(Original post by RedDevilThing)
I don't watch Scrubs, so I have no idea who the characters you are on about are, but I'm pretty sure it's the other way round. Individual cases don't matter statistically speaking, but one of the main purposes of statistics is to draw conclusions from them and predict future events. In my view, that means it can matter on an individual level. If I know that my child is more likely to be happy, law-abiding, etc. during their childhood because his/her parents are married, then that may influence my decision to get married. It may have no effect on a child's development whatsoever, but I think it's dangerous to dismiss reliable statistics.

Very true. But the study (if I remember correctly) found that statistically there is a difference between families with married parents, and families with co-habiting parents that are not married.

I don't see how there possibly could be marriage doesn't actually change people if people have been living together for 20 years and have a child how would you even be able to tell whether they are married unless you already know? nothing magically happens when you get married its just you declaring your commitment to the world as long as you have the commitment thats all that matters.

(Original post by minimarshmallow)
JD is the main character, Dr Cox is his mentor, it's not really important.
The main message was that you shouldn't feel the need to get married because you think it will make you a better parent - your ability as a parent is not going to be different because you've got a piece of paper saying that you're married to the other parent of your child. Obviously it could affect your decision to get married before you're pregnant (or your girlfriend is pregnant - I'm not sure if you're male or female) but once a baby is on the way or is there, you're either (going to be) a good parent or you're not.

I'm male, that's what the blue symbol is for!

First of all, I'd like to say that I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I'd like to raise a few points:

I think the point of the study was to show that children born into a family with married parents, were more likely to find the situation more comfortable and stable, than if the parents weren't married. It may not seem like a massive difference to you and me, as it's just a 'piece of paper' as you put it. (I disagree, but that's another debate entirely ). But having a common surname and all the other seemingly insignificant differences, for whatever reason, is likely to make a difference to a child's development. This is of course, assuming that the study wasn't complete rubbish.

I'd liken whether or not parents are married to other things that define a family's situation, for example living in a large house instead of a cramped flat. A family living in a large house are in a better situation to raise children than if they were living in a small flat, since they have extra space for beds, toys and to just generally explore, it helps the child's development. The same, in my view applies to marriage.

Something else that I think it's important to consider is; what makes one couple better parents than another? One would argue that it is how much they are willing to sacrifice to give their children the best possible start in life, and to prepare them for the future.

Say you have two unmarried, heterosexual couples: couple A and couple B. Both couples are very happy together and know they want to have children together at some point in the future, so they start looking into various statistics, advice, etc. and they both stumble upon the study I mentioned earlier. After reading the study, couple A make the decision to get married, reasoning that their child would be more likely to have a good start in life. Couple B however, decide to stick with being unmarried, ignoring the statistics thinking it wouldn't make any difference. Does that make couple A the better parents because they made a change in their lives that could potentially help their children?

(Original post by boba)
I don't see how there possibly could be marriage doesn't actually change people if people have been living together for 20 years and have a child how would you even be able to tell whether they are married unless you already know? nothing magically happens when you get married its just you declaring your commitment to the world as long as you have the commitment thats all that matters.

That's what simple logic and common sense would have you believe, and honestly I think that too, I don't believe marriage would have any effect on the ability of parents. But this study provides information that could lead you to believing otherwise. Assuming this study is accurate and that our common sense is also correct, there must be some other reason they achieved this result. Maybe people who are likely to be good parents, are also likely to want to get married? Your guess is as good as mine.

(Original post by RedDevilThing)
I'm male, that's what the blue symbol is for!

I should probably be more attentive

First of all, I'd like to say that I don't disagree with what you're saying, but I'd like to raise a few points:

I think the point of the study was to show that children born into a family with married parents, were more likely to find the situation more comfortable and stable, than if the parents weren't married. It may not seem like a massive difference to you and me, as it's just a 'piece of paper' as you put it. (I disagree, but that's another debate entirely ). But having a common surname and all the other seemingly insignificant differences, for whatever reason, is likely to make a difference to a child's development. This is of course, assuming that the study wasn't complete rubbish.

I haven't read the study, so I don't know if it was any good or not. I see your point with things that seem insignificant maybe being significant (and yeah, let's leave the 'piece of paper' argument alone, that's another debate entirely) but as far as I can tell from the cases of my two cousins (see above if you need a recap ) the fact that cousin 1 is married doesn't make her a better parent than cousin 2. Their relationships are different in that the people who are in them are different, but they are both still in stable relationships, just cousin 1 had a wedding, wears a ring on her finger and has a different surname. Cousin 2's baby has a double barrelled surname anyway.

I'd liken whether or not parents are married to other things that define a family's situation, for example living in a large house instead of a cramped flat. A family living in a large house are in a better situation to raise children than if they were living in a small flat, since they have extra space for beds, toys and to just generally explore, it helps the child's development. The same, in my view applies to marriage.

I'd say that sometimes this is true. Married people with children are in general more likely to be in houses etc. but that doesn't mean that unmarried people with children aren't. Again with my cousins, cousin 2 lives in a 2 bedroomed house in North London with her long-term boyfriend and their baby. If you were living in a house with someone and had a baby, the fact that you were married would only affect her surname (assuming she changed it) and potentially inheritance issues - but that's what wills are for.

Something else that I think it's important to consider is; what makes one couple better parents than another? One would argue that it is how much they are willing to sacrifice to give their children the best possible start in life, and to prepare them for the future.

Say you have two unmarried, heterosexual couples: couple A and couple B. Both couples are very happy together and know they want to have children together at some point in the future, so they start looking into various statistics, advice, etc. and they both stumble upon the study I mentioned earlier. After reading the study, couple A make the decision to get married, reasoning that their child would be more likely to have a good start in life. Couple B however, decide to stick with being unmarried, ignoring the statistics thinking it wouldn't make any difference. Does that make couple A the better parents because they made a change in their lives that could potentially help their children?

I don't think it does make couple A better parents, just different.
For arguments sake would you mind me altering your analogy a little? If both women and both men involved in the couples were identical twins who had been raised together, therefore they would be more likely to have similar parenting styles so we can compare them more directly. We could also say that they have the same jobs and financial resources, the same sizes houses, no non-genetic illnesses affecting their abilities to look after children. I'm simply trying to remove extraneous variables, hope you don't mind.
Couple A and Couple B are going to have roughly the same parenting ability, the same amount of time, money and energy to spend looking after their children etc. I don't think the fact that couple A are married will make a difference here.

I think - and like I said, I haven't read the study, so I'm not sure - that the results obtained would likely be due to the fact that children who's parents are unmarried often means that they're not together anymore. Children from single parent families are more likely to be involved in crime etc. Couple A and Couple B, who in my slight change of your analogy are only different in that one is married and one isn't, shouldn't show any differences in parenting ability. If the study were to be run on examples purely like Couple A and Couple B, controlling for any and all extraneous variables that could affect parenting, still showed the same results; then I would change my mind.

Depends on how you see marriage.
I would like to be in a committed loving relationship with my husband and then have a baby. I don't see marriage as 'just' a piece of paper. I don't see anything wrong with people making the choice to have children outside of marriage if they are in a loving relationship and can care for the child. For me personally marriageshows the level of commitment, love and support a person is ready to give me and vice versa. I see marriage as a lasting relationship not something that will end in a few years and I'd move on to the next person. Also this is why I'd take my time before jumping into a marriage. I do sound pretty idealistic, but I am yet to experience anything that would change my mind.