2021 engine changes for F1

In the presence of FIA President Jean Todt, representatives from the FIA, FIA Formula One World Championship Commercial Rights Holder (F1) and current and potential Formula One manufacturer representatives met today, 31 October, in Paris to discuss regulations for the 2021 Power Unit.

In line with the objectives outlined by the FIA for the future of these regulations, which include a reduction in cost, maintaining road relevance with hybrid technology and improving the sound of the cars and the appeal for the fans, manufacturer representatives were presented with a roadmap for the development of the next generation of regulations.

The proposals shared today have been developed jointly by the FIA and by F1 using data and input from teams, power unit suppliers and outside experts, and the overall framework for the 2021 power unit definition will be in place and published by the FIA at the end of 2017.

In order to uphold the objective of cost reduction, work will continue over the next 12 months to define certain elements of the Power Unit, but the design and development of the complete Power Unit will not be possible until all the information is released at the end of 2018. This aims to ensure that manufacturers continue to work on the current specification Power Unit.

During the remaining part of 2017 and 2018, the FIA and F1 will also work with the teams to establish power unit test and development restrictions as well as other cost containment measures.

Manufacturer representatives were presented with the vision for the key new features of the 2021 Power Unit proposed by the FIA and F1. These are as follows:

Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

A series of meetings will now commence with all the interested parties to discuss and develop the proposal in the spirit of the widest possible cooperation.

"Today was a key step in the development of the Power Unit regulations for 2021," said FIA Secretary-General for Sport, Peter Bayer. "The FIA has been working with the Commercial Rights Holder to define a positive step forward for these regulations which maintain Formula One's place at the pinnacle of motor sport technology whilst addressing the key issues facing the sport such as cost, road relevance and fan experience at the racetrack. We felt it was important to bring the teams into the discussions today and explain the direction we are taking and I'm pleased with the response we have received."

"The 2021 power unit is an example of the future way the FIA as regulators, F1 as commercial right holders, the teams and the manufacturers as stakeholders will work together for the common good of the sport," added. Formula 1, Managing Director, Motorsports Ross Brawn. "The proposal presented today was the outcome of a series of meeting which took place during 2017 with the current teams participating in the FIA Formula 1 World Championship and the manufacturers who showed their interest to be part of the pinnacle of motor sport.

"Also, we've carefully listened to what the fans think about the current PU and what they would like to see in the near future with the objective to define a set of regulations which will provide a powertrain that is simpler, cheaper and noisier and will create the conditions to facilitate new manufacturers to enter Formula 1 as powertrain suppliers and to reach a more levelled field in the sport.

"The new F1 has the target to be the world's leading global sports competition married to state of the art technology. To excite, engage, and awe fans of all ages but to do so in a sustainable manner. We believe that the future power unit will achieve this."

We know that the direction of travel on engines is that they will be based on current 1.6 V6 engine, they will be louder, will be higher revving and that will be achieved by means of a higher fuel allowance, up by as much as 20%.

From a technical perspective, I'm not a fan of the removal of MGUH
MGUH eliminates turbo lag, which allows turbo engine design to be superior over NA or supercharged engine in both efficiency and performance.

I understand that MGUK is here to stay, as the auto industry is moving towards hyrbid/electric system, but I think MGUH is the key to allowing forced induction engine to replace large NA engines in road cars. IMO

Hope he's right. Let's face it, all these manufacturers, uncluding the FIA, are based in the European Community and are being pressured by their respective governments for a more "greener" car hence the road relevance formula currently in F1. Some Euro govts. want to do away with the ICE like in the next 5 to 10 years.

Maybe the FIA needs to move away from the Euro community.

As long as these manufacturers adhere to govt. pressure, there is no way of going back to open fuel flow rates and 18k rpm levels.

Thats another thing the Euro. community is clamping down on.....decibel levels which is why some of these ex-F1 tracks will not open due to "suburbia" living nearby now.

Sergio Perez's car in the Mexico GP had a "microphone" in the car to raise noise volume as an experimental test......give me a break.

From a technical perspective, I'm not a fan of the removal of MGUH
MGUH eliminates turbo lag, which allows turbo engine design to be superior over NA or supercharged engine in both efficiency and performance.

thats where the K comes in. The K was always there for the torque fill due to turbo lag coming out of the turns.

there is talk of increasing the output/kw of the K to fill in the torque fill of the H.

Hope he's right. Let's face it, all these manufacturers, uncluding the FIA, are based in the European Community and are being pressured by their respective governments for a more "greener" car hence the road relevance formula currently in F1. Some Euro govts. want to do away with the ICE like in the next 5 to 10 years.

Maybe the FIA needs to move away from the Euro community.

As long as these manufacturers adhere to govt. pressure, there is no way of going back to open fuel flow rates and 18k rpm levels.

Thats another thing the Euro. community is clamping down on.....decibel levels which is why some of these ex-F1 tracks will not open due to "suburbia" living nearby now.

Sergio Perez's car in the Mexico GP had a "microphone" in the car to raise noise volume as an experimental test......give me a break.

Hope he's right. Let's face it, all these manufacturers, uncluding the FIA, are based in the European Community and are being pressured by their respective governments for a more "greener" car hence the road relevance formula currently in F1. Some Euro govts. want to do away with the ICE like in the next 5 to 10 years.

Maybe the FIA needs to move away from the Euro community.

As long as these manufacturers adhere to govt. pressure, there is no way of going back to open fuel flow rates and 18k rpm levels.

Thats another thing the Euro. community is clamping down on.....decibel levels which is why some of these ex-F1 tracks will not open due to "suburbia" living nearby now.

Sergio Perez's car in the Mexico GP had a "microphone" in the car to raise noise volume as an experimental test......give me a break.

Yeah move F1 away from Europe good idea....LOL

And it's not just Euro tracks that are having decibel level problems, does Laguna Seca not have similar issues for example? Nascar is talking about reducing noise as well so fans can talk? Hardly a Euro issue...

F1 and the FIA need to decide what sport is for road relevance (which I thought was WEC in the LMP1 class) and what is for motorsport. F1 are at a crossroads whether it wants to morph into Formula E or still remain a motorsport.

Road relevance is for WEC and for Formula E. I see why manufacturers are clammering for Formula E because electric is the future and the cost are way way down compared to a Formula 1 car.....its like 3 to 5 million USD for Formula E compared to half a billion USD in Formula 1.

MotoGP is still keeping the ICE on its motorcycles but you don't see them morphing into an ICE/electric bike; which they have made already(ALL ELECTRIC BIKE) and raced in the Isle of Man. Those bikes are just as fast too but only good for one run.

And it's not just Euro tracks that are having decibel level problems, does Laguna Seca not have similar issues for example? Nascar is talking about reducing noise as well so fans can talk? Hardly a Euro issue...

Greig, I did'nt say move F1 away from Europe but the FIA governing body due to its European location and pressure from European govts.

Yes, Laguna Seca has put the decibel issue on the table for well over a decade but it has not happened......yet....but get your point.

NASCAR is more recent but if it does actually lower the decibels of the cars, fans will cease to go watch the race and ticket sales will plummet along with viewership on TV and there go the sponsors to follow.....which all lead to one thing....money lost.

Thank God we have dragstrips, monster trucks, power-boat racing, pylon racing (Nevada), and racing in general at many other tracks that don't include lowering the noise level.

F1 and the FIA need to decide what sport is for road relevance (which I thought was WEC in the LMP1 class) and what is for motorsport. F1 are at a crossroads whether it wants to morph into Formula E or still remain a motorsport.

Road relevance is for WEC and for Formula E. I see why manufacturers are clammering for Formula E because electric is the future and the cost are way way down compared to a Formula 1 car.....its like 3 to 5 million USD for Formula E compared to half a billion USD in Formula 1.

MotoGP is still keeping the ICE on its motorcycles but you don't see them morphing into an ICE/electric bike; which they have made already(ALL ELECTRIC BIKE) and raced in the Isle of Man. Those bikes are just as fast too but only good for one run.

But F1 has always been a field of developing new and state-of-the-art technology. If you take this away from F1 it becomes just another motorsport series. Big manufacturers won't be interested in participating in such a series. They want to develop and promote new technology. In fact, that's why Honda returned, they said it themselves. MotoGP is a totally different ballpark. I think they'll go hybrid in the not so distant future as well though, it's just a matter of time.

But F1 has always been a field of developing new and state-of-the-art technology. If you take this away from F1 it becomes just another motorsport series. Big manufacturers won't be interested in participating in such a series. They want to develop and promote new technology. In fact, that's why Honda returned, they said it themselves. MotoGP is a totally different ballpark. I think they'll go hybrid in the not so distant future as well though, it's just a matter of time.

1.) Correct, F1 has always been the field of developing new and state of the art technology UP AND TO 2014 all to the advancement of one manufacturer who have manipulated the rules in their favor. Its just that in 2017, Ferrari have finally and to some aspect caught up with Mercedes but their reliabilty is still dominant as well as their pace on most tracks; in the beginning they had issues but they seemed to have worked them out mid-season.

2.) Todays car is not the same as 5 years ago and F1 is not at the forefront of technology of such things as: 1.) autonomous driving 2.) all-electric power cells 3.) gps-sat. navigation. F1 in its glory days did alot to the car, more so in the mid 90's all the way up 201x years.....but its current contribution, expensive and highly complicated, will only be served in hyper-car for the ultra rich to afford. Tesla is at the forefront of the 21st century car and everyone else will play catch up.

Which is why big manufactures will move to Formula E. These current F1 hybrid units are 18 to 20 million a piece!!!! F1 needs to lower costs way down and NOT be road relevant anymore due to the car is changing. Horner is a proponent of V-10 or V-12 engines but what does he know right? This is a soda pop company that does not manufacture mass production vehicles but knows what the fans want as it too does not know how to market its product???? Since its infancy, RedBull has built an F1 organization that runs with the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari and has contributed some great drivers...not bad for a soda pop company who know their fans and can market its product very well; and they do the most outlandish feats all for the sake of entertainment.

I'm not saying we should go back to V-10 or V-12's but most of the current drivers on the grid want loud engines....the V-8's were great with the current tyres width and chassis regulations or V-6 2T with unlimited fuel flow regulations and bring back unlimited testing....but engines should be pushing at least 18k rpm.

1.) Correct, F1 has always been the field of developing new and state of the art technology UP AND TO 2014 all to the advancement of one manufacturer who have manipulated the rules in their favor. Its just that in 2017, Ferrari have finally and to some aspect caught up with Mercedes but their reliabilty is still dominant as well as their pace on most tracks; in the beginning they had issues but they seemed to have worked them out mid-season.

2.) Todays car is not the same as 5 years ago and F1 is not at the forefront of technology of such things as: 1.) autonomous driving 2.) all-electric power cells 3.) gps-sat. navigation. F1 in its glory days did alot to the car, more so in the mid 90's all the way up 201x years.....but its current contribution, expensive and highly complicated, will only be served in hyper-car for the ultra rich to afford. Tesla is at the forefront of the 21st century car and everyone else will play catch up.

Which is why big manufactures will move to Formula E. These current F1 hybrid units are 18 to 20 million a piece!!!! F1 needs to lower costs way down and NOT be road relevant anymore due to the car is changing. Horner is a proponent of V-10 or V-12 engines but what does he know right? This is a soda pop company that does not manufacture mass production vehicles but knows what the fans want as it too does not know how to market its product???? Since its infancy, RedBull has built an F1 organization that runs with the likes of Mercedes and Ferrari and has contributed some great drivers...not bad for a soda pop company who know their fans and can market its product very well; and they do the most outlandish feats all for the sake of entertainment.

I'm not saying we should go back to V-10 or V-12's but most of the current drivers on the grid want loud engines....the V-8's were great with the current tyres width and chassis regulations or V-6 2T with unlimited fuel flow regulations and bring back unlimited testing....but engines should be pushing at least 18k rpm.

Don't you think that hybrid and electric is at the same level in terms of relevance for the future? People will drive both hybrid and electric. However, i can't see naturally aspirated ICE engines being relevant. If you make F1 race with outdated technology then the series might go down as horse racing - outdated. Who know's what the future holds for motorsports though, it may really become like horse racing. But on the other hand, F1 might become something unimaginable and completely sci-fi for us to grasp right now.

I don't get why F1 , or any other motorsport , has to be used for developing road car engines. Soccer , as far as I know , isn't being used by Puma or Nike for shoe development. And since the new engine rules took force F1 has been losing viewers. In my opinion the FIA should bring back at least V8s , less aero on the cars and remove DRS. I hated that thing ever since it was introduced. Passing with DRS isn't passing.

I don't get why F1 , or any other motorsport , has to be used for developing road car engines. Soccer , as far as I know , isn't being used by Puma or Nike for shoe development. And since the new engine rules took force F1 has been losing viewers. In my opinion the FIA should bring back at least V8s , less aero on the cars and remove DRS. I hated that thing ever since it was introduced. Passing with DRS isn't passing.

F1 started losing even before the new engine regulations. The entire motorsport started losing viewers, not just F1. Maybe motorsport just doesn't have enough new fans?

Yeah , sorry. It's been losing ever since the costs went astronomical and only 2 or 3 teams could compete for wins. The FIA started changing the rules so more teams could compete but just drove the costs higher. That's why I want simple V8s and simplified aero. And of course there are no new fans coming to F1 since if , for example , a kid's dad doesn't watch because it's become boring neither will he. And even if a kid watches by accident he'll just see a single car half a minute in front and no action so he'll stop. To me F1 is a combination of action on the track , engine sound , driver talent and Ferrari at the front.

Don't you think that hybrid and electric is at the same level in terms of relevance for the future? People will drive both hybrid and electric. However, i can't see naturally aspirated ICE engines being relevant. If you make F1 race with outdated technology then the series might go down as horse racing - outdated. Who know's what the future holds for motorsports though, it may really become like horse racing. But on the other hand, F1 might become something unimaginable and completely sci-fi for us to grasp right now.

Originally Posted by Ryder1984

I don't get why F1 , or any other motorsport , has to be used for developing road car engines. Soccer , as far as I know , isn't being used by Puma or Nike for shoe development. And since the new engine rules took force F1 has been losing viewers. In my opinion the FIA should bring back at least V8s , less aero on the cars and remove DRS. I hated that thing ever since it was introduced. Passing with DRS isn't passing.

Maybe F1 needs to do away with the FIA as a whole. Let themselves come up with the rules and dictate it themselves; just sayin. I agree, currently where the public car is headed, should F1 be used as a platform for road relevance? In the past yes, like up to 2010, because it was more mechanical and drivers can give more input in the car. Now, pfffffffft, drivers are told how to drive, what engine modes to use, what engine modes NOT to use, how to default the engine as 500GB of data a second are streamed live to the pits and HQ.....it's to technical, to complicated and way to expensive not to mention fuel flow rates, token systems, oil usage per 100km....I mean, c'mon.

DRS was introduced as a "form" of passing to elevate the sport some more but totally get what your sayin. Cut down the "gillette-mach-3-turbo-razor" aero and get rid of the DRS and now we can see some talent.

Thank God we have dragstrips, monster trucks, power-boat racing, pylon racing (Nevada), and racing in general at many other tracks that don't include lowering the noise level.

Leftists will eventually ruin everything. I live a stones throw from Englishtown Raceway Park. One of the most famous drag strips in the US. The owners decided to sell off a bunch of land around the track and sold it cheap. People built McMantions on the land they got cheep because it was next to a RACETRACK and within a few years started to complain about the noise. In 2004 or 2005 they instituted a noise limit on Friday nights and Saturday mornings. I got kicked out. You can only run unmuffled on Wed night and Sunday now.

Leftists will eventually ruin everything. I live a stones throw from Englishtown Raceway Park. One of the most famous drag strips in the US. The owners decided to sell off a bunch of land around the track and sold it cheap. People built McMantions on the land they got cheep because it was next to a RACETRACK and within a few years started to complain about the noise. In 2004 or 2005 they instituted a noise limit on Friday nights and Saturday mornings. I got kicked out. You can only run unmuffled on Wed night and Sunday now.

Unbelievable .....Uh hello, there's a race track nearby. I don't get people hence as to why they got the land cheap.

And Renault. All 3 have invested so much money already that they are opposed to it. TRUST ME, all three will change these "proposed" formula for 2021. It's all dialogue at the moment.

RedBull on the other hand likes it.

These proposed engines running another 3000rpm. Currently these F1 cars are geared for 15k but only run 11.5 to 12k due to fuel flow rates. An extra 3k would mean 15k...depending on fuel flow rates.

so the dialogue continues and will continue until something is concrete. There needs to be a different series in F1 maybe.... one for manufactures and the other for "garagistas."

RB likes wt FIA are proposing ...they want to start the development early. They are very eager becoz they need design it's car based of engine supplier . So the talks of engine suppliers like aston Martin, Porsche, they can get idea right.

And Renault. All 3 have invested so much money already that they are opposed to it. TRUST ME, all three will change these "proposed" formula for 2021. It's all dialogue at the moment.

RedBull on the other hand likes it.

These proposed engines running another 3000rpm. Currently these F1 cars are geared for 15k but only run 11.5 to 12k due to fuel flow rates. An extra 3k would mean 15k...depending on fuel flow rates.

so the dialogue continues and will continue until something is concrete. There needs to be a different series in F1 maybe.... one for manufactures and the other for "garagistas."

But some garagistas are better than the manufacturers themselves :D Renault for example are nowhere with their chassis design. They only invest serious money and resources in PU development. We'll see next year though. However, i think if they were serious enough, they wouldn't give McLaren an engine.

I don't get why F1 , or any other motorsport , has to be used for developing road car engines. Soccer , as far as I know , isn't being used by Puma or Nike for shoe development. And since the new engine rules took force F1 has been losing viewers. In my opinion the FIA should bring back at least V8s , less aero on the cars and remove DRS. I hated that thing ever since it was introduced. Passing with DRS isn't passing.

Because it's an investment for car manufacturer.
It cost millions to develop F1 cars, and there has to be a return of investment here.
At the end of the day, the people who owns the company's money are not interest in racing for the sake of it. They are interested in making money.

The technology F1 invest in, must be relevant to the production cars. Ferrari FXX, Merc AMG Project One, these are products that came out of F1 tech, even if they are more of a halo product.
Super car makers build their reputation out of these cars.

Go back to old technology and manufacturers will start leaving the sport

Because it's an investment for car manufacturer.
It cost millions to develop F1 cars, and there has to be a return of investment here.
At the end of the day, the people who owns the company's money are not interest in racing for the sake of it. They are interested in making money.

The technology F1 invest in, must be relevant to the production cars. Ferrari FXX, Merc AMG Project One, these are products that came out of F1 tech, even if they are more of a halo product.
Super car makers build their reputation out of these cars.

Go back to old technology and manufacturers will start leaving the sport

Yap, that's what I've been trying to say. New technology must be introduced into F1 so top manufacturers have a purpose to race in it. However, i just hope that automotive technology in racing won't be maxed out one day because that might mean the end of F1 as we know it. Guess one day F1 will race with these kind of tires. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHpxuwcNJfo

Because it's an investment for car manufacturer.
It cost millions to develop F1 cars, and there has to be a return of investment here.
At the end of the day, the people who owns the company's money are not interest in racing for the sake of it. They are interested in making money.

The technology F1 invest in, must be relevant to the production cars. Ferrari FXX, Merc AMG Project One, these are products that came out of F1 tech, even if they are more of a halo product.
Super car makers build their reputation out of these cars.

Go back to old technology and manufacturers will start leaving the sport

Totally get the ROI but the current formula in F1 and going forward is a "stop-gap" of whats to come....all-electric. Tesla is already there while everyone else is catching up. F1 and FE will more than likely morph onto its own. Again, these are Euro manufacturers(and the FIA) pressured by Euro govts to push for all electric. I dislike FE and find it bloody boring TBH.....the silence just does'nt do it for me like a Ferrari tipo 53 or 54.

Yes going back to old tech. will eventually mean manufacturers leaving the sport BUT giving the current formula, FANS are leaving the sport ABOVE ALL one manufacturer dictating the rules.....how many more years will we see Mercedes dominance???? It's boring as some ScuderiaChatters have expressed on this website.

just for kicks, lets look at the numbers of 4 years of dominance in F1 from different era's.

Ferrari (2001-2004)

Won 47 out of a possible 68 races in that span for a 69.1% win rate.
Took 40 out of a possible 68 poles in that span for a 58.8% pole rate.

Red Bull (2010-2013)

Won 41 out of a possible 77 races in that span for a 53.2% win rate.
Took 52 out of a possible 77 poles in that span for a 67.5% pole rate.

Finally, we have Mercedes.

Mercedes (2014-2017)

Won 62 out of a possible 77 races in that span for a 80.5% win rate.
Took 69 out of a possible 77 poles in that span for a scarcely believable 89.6% pole rate.

Hamilton has been driving unquestionably the most dominant car in the history of Formula 1.