Mike Meek interview (transcript)

Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 1
RANCH FAMILY DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Mike Meek
Place of Interview: Deseret Land and Livestock Office, Utah
Date of Interview: January 10, 2012
Interviewer: Randy Williams
Recordist: Randy Williams
Recording Equipment: Marantz digital recorder: Model no.: PMD660;
Shure omnidirectional microphone: Model no.: MX 183
Transcription Equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems with foot pedal
Transcribed by: Susan Gross
Transcript Proofed by: Randy Williams, 12 March 2012;
Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Mike Meek talks a little bit about growing up as one of eight kids on a small ranch. He discusses how he made a career as a rancher, ranching for a corporate ranch. He explains his various roles throughout his career in corporate ranching.
Reference: RW = Randy Williams (Interviewer)
MM = Mike Meek (Interviewee)
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
RW: Here we are; it is the tenth of January, 2012, and I’m out at the Deseret Land and Livestock office, with Mike Meek (the operation manager).
Mike, tell me a little bit about your background: your full name, your birthday.– Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 2
MM: Okay, I’m Michael Meek; I grew up in Preston, Idaho. We had a small family operation there; I was the fifth generation (I was part of that). It was founded back in the late 1800s. Our operation there was primarily cattle and farming (we grew alfalfa hay, and some barley, and then had some cattle).
I was one of eight brothers, and it was obviously not going to support all of us. And so I knew agriculture was something I enjoyed a lot, but as I grew up and started trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I had to decide: “Do I want to do something else in town, and make agriculture a small part of my life?” Or, whether I wanted to make it a big part of my life.
And I went to BYU; was working on a bachelor’s degree there, and was in agri-business, and looked at several different options. I had the opportunity to do an internship with our company on a ranch in Nebraska, and met a man named Bert Tykerd, who was the general manager of that ranch, and could kind of see a way that I could make production agriculture my career, where I could do it as a living, as opposed to something doing on the side, or having a job in town, as well.
And so that’s what piqued my interest. And then upon graduating from BYU, I went back to Nebraska and started working there, a cowboy.
RW: As a cowboy?
MM: Yeah.
RW: Can you talk a little bit about working as a cowboy?
MM: Right.
RW: I guess in the olden days they called those for hire –
MM: Right.
RW: Ranch hands?
MM: So my job in Nebraska – it was a good situation, in that ranch was split into different units, and then each cowboy (essentially) had his own herd, and his own acreage that he was in charge of (he had a stewardship over a certain area). And so anyway, it was a little bit like having your own min-ranch that was financed for you. And you know, you had to fit the program, do you know, a lot of the same things that the other cowboys did. But you did have some autonomy and some feeling like, you know, you were responsible for something, and had some decision-making ability.
[02:36]
And so I worked there for three years. And within that time I got a master’s degree at Colorado State. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 3
RW: What was that in?
MM: It was an animal science degree, but it was called beef management systems. And so I studied the whole beef production chain, you know, financially how that worked (specifically cow-calf operations): what made money, what didn’t make money, what were some of the things to focus on.
I did a master’s thesis using data from that ranch in Nebraska on heifer development, and how to develop heifers economically. So that was a great learning experience. And after being in Nebraska for three years, and completing this master’s degree, I had the opportunity at that point to go to Cody, Wyoming, as a foreman for our ranch there, at the time.
And so I went there for two years. And while we were there we had some irrigated ground, as well as some range ground, and I’d just supervise that operation (irrigation, some hay production, mostly pasture grazing, and the range ground).
RW: Was it part of the corporation as well, this ranch?
MM: Um-hmm, that was part of the same situation.
RW: Did you have a family at this time, were they with you?
MM: Yeah; so actually I was married when I was at BYU, and we had our first child right before – in the semester before I left. So the whole time I was in Nebraska working on my master’s degree we had a baby.
RW: How does that work with ranch families and corporations? Do they provide housing? How does all that play out?
MM: Yeah. All of our ranches have some company housing that’s available for employees. And you know, it’s a little subject to how long you’ve been there, what your position is, and you know, there are always some houses that are a little bigger than others. But depending on the ranch you’re on, you might only live in company housing. This ranch, here in Woodruff, we have several employees that live in Woodruff, and drive out, and others that live here on the ranch.
RW: Those folks that live in Woodruff, are those in company homes, or are they their own homes?
MM: No, those are their own homes.
RW: I see.
MM: And so, you know, I guess that’s one of the decisions our employees make, is if they own their own home, they’re going to accrue some equity in that –
RW: Sure. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 4
[05:07]
MM: Which they’ll have something down the road; if they work here, then they can put more money into some other investment, and hopefully have a house some day.
RW: Sure.
MM: It’s always a concern for our employees – how are they building equity in housing if they’re always living in company housing. And we have some financial tools that help as part of our benefit package, that help employees prepare for that. But none the less there is an onus on them to set aside some money, or try and figure out how they’re going to prepare for the day when they don’t live in the company house.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So that’s one of the unique things about working for our ranch where you’re part of a corporation, or you know, it’s not a family-owned situation.
RW: Right.
MM: You’ve got to think about your retirement –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: In a little different way than you would if you were on a family operation.
RW: Sure. And I guess where the ranch located here, in Woodruff; it’s really quite close –
MM: Yes.
RW: To a town.
MM: Yeah.
RW: And other ranches are going to be further –
MM: Yeah, we have ranches that are 40 miles from the nearest town, and sometimes that town isn’t very big.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Or very many resources.
RW: That would make a difference in housing.
MM: Yeah.
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 5
MM: Yeah; so our ranch in Nebraska would be difficult to live off the ranch and work there; I mean, you could do it, but there would be a pretty sizable commute.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: But different ranches are a little bit different circumstances.
RW: Sure. Well, continue with your story.
MM: Okay.
RW: I’m sorry to interrupt.
MM: No, that’s fine. So in ’99 I left Cody and came here for the first time. And I came here as a cattle manager, and had responsibility, basically over the cattle enterprise for the ranch. I had a crew of guys that worked with me, in terms of getting the work done, but I was in charge of, basically the cattle program, marketing, purchasing feeds; a lot of the inputs –
RW: Could you talk a little bit about the cattle program – are you talking about from feeding, to –?
MM: Yeah, we were primarily a cow-calf, yearling program, and so we had some hay that we were putting up, as well as purchasing feeds that we might use. We bought quite a bit of hay, and then we used some other supplemental feed. So there were some inputs that I’d buy.
[07:44]
Anyway, we were a cow-calf, yearling program. So the calves would primarily be born here, in Woodruff. And then at weaning time most of our cattle go to Box Elder County; they either go to some property that we own out in Promontory –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Right off the north end of the Great Salt Lake where we have some winter grazing.
RW: Okay.
MM: Some of the calves go there, and others went to a feedyard in Corrine –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Where they were back-grounded. And typically we would send the bigger end of the calves to Promontory; the smaller end would go to Corrine, where they had a little better feed resources, to catch up.
And then the following spring, those calves would come back here to the ranch, and we’d graze them on irrigated lands. And for that summer time, if they were steers, or our stocker heifers – we’d sell them then, off the ranch at that point in time. And if they were Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 6
a replacement heifer, we’d send them back to Promontory for their first year as a cow – as a bred heifer.
RW: Okay.
MM: And they have their first down there, at Promontory, and then come back as a pair, and then they’d stay here –
RW: Okay.
MM: Basically the rest of their life.
RW: So your second-year mothers are here, but your first-year are down where it’s a little warmer –
MM: A little warmer, better climate.
RW: Right.
MM: Right; we can calve them a little bit earlier.
RW: Sure.
MM: And take care of them a little better down there.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So our youngest animals go down there for the winter time, and then the older ones stay up here year-round, and endure the Rich county cold.
RW: Um-hmm. Now did I hear you say, you said, “pairs” down there when they’re first –?
MM: Well, we bring them back as pairs. As first-calf heifers.
RW: You bring them back, but the weaned all go down there?
MM: Yeah, the weaned go down separate.
RW: Okay. I bet that’s a loud enterprise that day.
MM: Yeah.
[Laughter]
So, I was in charge of planning for that, making sure we had enough help to accomplish all that.
RW: Is this all deeded ground you’re running on, or do you have any permits? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 7
[09:40]
MM: We are primarily deeded ground here; we do have some BLM ground, and we have some state ground as well.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: But we’re mostly deeded ground, which is unique in the west.
RW: With all this movement – I assume most of it you’re doing through semis – but do you do any trailing or herding?
MM: Well, within the ranch –
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: It’s all trailing cattle back and forth.
RW: Right.
MM: But in order to get to Promontory, you’ve got to put them on a truck.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Yeah. And that’s basically a three-hour drive in a truck to get down there; so it’s quite a ways. So, yeah, we utilize trucks; and we contract that out.
RW: I see.
MM: We utilize – we don’t do enough trucking throughout the year to want to own our own, you know, our own semis –
RW: Sure.
MM: And that kind of stuff; so we contract that out.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So I was here from ’99 to 2004 in that role, and then I went to Texas for two years as a ranch manager (we have an operation in Paducah, Texas). And that was an interesting change of climate, and challenges, and things.
RW: Talk a little bit about that. I mentioned before we went on tape that I’ve been over in Elko at the Cowboy Poetry Gathering, and I’ve met ranchers from all over.
MM: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 8
RW: And one of the things hear about Texas, and some of those places, is the land is different; I mean, there’s different – like one was talking about smaller spaces, and different vegetation, and different kinds of considerations.
MM: Right. Well our ranch there was – well, the nearest town was Paducah, Texas (which is a very small town). But we’d be south and east of Amarillo about three miles (in between Amarillo and Wichita Falls). So we’re still west Texas, a fairly arid climate. One of the biggest challenges on that ranch was brush control; there’s a lot of mesquite brush, and then – it’s called a red-berry juniper (which is similar to the blue-berry junipers we have here, in Utah), but it’s a root sprouting plant. So if you burn it, or cut the top off of it, it just doubles the stems, and comes right back. So brush control was a big challenge. And we utilized control burns and grubbing, and lots of other techniques to try and control brush.
[12:14]
There was a little bit of farming on that ranch. That was an area that there was a fair amount of wheat and cotton that was grown traditionally. When the CRP program [Conservation Reserve Program] came out, a lot of those farms came out of agriculture, went in the CRP program for a few years; and then as they came back out, a lot of it went back into grazing programs, or that. So we had a little bit of farmed grazing. Of course, hay feeding wasn’t much of an issue down there, because we really didn’t have much winter. So we didn’t put up any hay; we had just a little bit on hand, if we had to feed something in a corral or something. But you know, winter was more about supplementing cows, and taking care of them, and getting things calved out, and things like that.
One of the interesting thing, you know, you talk about cultures: you have the Texas brush popper cowboy culture, and then you come from, you know, more of a Great Basin –
RW: Buckaroo.
MM: Buckaroo culture that was quite a bit different.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: They laughed at my long rope [laughs] when I first went down there. But no, it was a lot of fun.
RW: Dally, hard and fast. [Laughs]
MM: They were all hard and fast. But you know, one of the things that I’ve said to a lot of people since I came back is we think about hard and fast as being a really dangerous, you know, whatever you’ve got, has got you. But you know, the good cowboys down there, they always had their horse set up right, you know, they handled their slack; I mean they were a lot of fun to work around, and I learned a lot about just their culture, and how they did it. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 9
The other thing that was pretty interesting is when you were gathering cattle in all that brush, how regimented their cattle drives were. Whoever was in charge that day (the foreman, or whoever), you’d trot down one fence, and he’d drop off people as he wanted them to be scattered across the pasture. And then as you moved across, your job was to find the guy on each side of you, and get the cattle in front of you as you move through the brush, and that way you could actually gather up the cattle in the brush (instead of just)-- . And you’re job was to stay in your hole. When you got to the other end you were supposed to be where he put you. And so it was a lot more regimented than I think a lot of our cattle work is here.
RW: Hmm.
[14:38]
MM: And in some ways I’ve missed that because people knew what their role was, and they did it, and they did it well.
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: So that whole Texas experience was interesting, and a new climate.
RW: Well that brings a question to my mind about hiring staff, hiring cowboys, and others. When you’re in one space and place (because of the culture and the environment), obviously you’re hiring people that know that environment. How does that work as a manager to hire folks? How do you go about doing it?
MM: So I kind of need to differentiate a little bit between our full-time guys and day workers (or part-time). You know, when I think you’re hiring full-time guys – the way we manage, we like to give people a stewardship, and let them have some responsibility. And so you want somebody that is familiar with the area, but also somebody that wants to take on a bigger responsibility and take charge.
A lot of the tasks we have to do: branding, or weaning, or something, are going to require a few more guys than what we want to put on full-time, and so we bring in day workers. And those are almost always local cowboys, and a lot of them have ranches of their own and are looking for a little bit of extra, or maybe they have a job in town and want to take some time to come do it. We have an individual that helps us a lot that retired from UDOT [Utah Department of Transportation], after the first retirement years wanted to cowboy, and comes out and helps us quite a bit.
RW: How do your find folks?
[16:39]
MM: We cast a pretty wide net for full-time folks. We always consider local guys, but we recruit a lot out of universities,
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 10
MM: And then we get resumes from people that find us on the website, or other things. But we have a pretty active role with the recruiting.
RW: Well what are you looking for? Now that you’ve risen up in the ranks –
MM: Yeah.
RW: And you’ve been in, it sounds like, most of the positions that you’re hiring for – what are the things you’re looking for?
MM: Well experience is one thing, but I guess that experience can be different things. I guess every time you hire for a cowboy position, you’re going to look at that specific position. You know, we may fill that with somebody right out of college; we do internships, so a lot of times we’ll bring in an individual and let them work part time through a summer. And if it seems like they understand cattle, and think through problems, and can really take care of cattle (have some responsibility, will accept responsibility), that’s an individual we might fit for that job. Or we might know somebody local that maybe has gained some experience, either with us as a day worker, or on some other ranch that might fit that role pretty well.
So part of it is experience: are they qualified, do they really know what they’re doing? Can they see body condition and know if cows are gaining weight or losing weight? Do they know how to do some basic mechanical things? Can they ride a horse? Are they handy? You know, there’s that element; and then I mean we work for guys that have growth potential as well. I mean, I think as agriculture becomes a little more corporate (and certainly within our corporation), we need guys that can think through complex problems, and have analytical skills, and can work within a corporate structure. I think a college degree becomes more important as you move past a cowboy level employee, to a foreman level employee, or to a manager level –
RW: Um-hmm.
[19:01]
MM: Then level of education becomes more and more important. So a certain number of the people we hire, a college degree is important to us (not everybody that works here has to have one).
When we’re evaluating who we hire for a position, certainly, “Do they have a degree? Have they invested that in themselves, to where they have some analytical skills, and invested in” – you know, college is an important criteria that we consider.
RW: Looking back with the folks you’ve worked with over the years, are many of them, like yourself, coming from ranch backgrounds (or agriculture backgrounds)? Is it moving to change that it’s getting less and less, or it’s staying about the same?
MM: I would say that most are still coming from some agricultural background. But that said, there are more – probably an increasing number (albeit not a huge amount) that are Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 11
coming from other fields. And I think that’s a function of our society: there’s just less rural people and rural jobs out there, and so in order to fill positions, you’ve got to be willing to look at other guys.
RW: Sure.
MM: And then put them in a training program to where they can be successful. But you know, given the opportunity to hire somebody that’s got a good background, and a solid –
RW: Sure.
MM: You know, some real solid experience, as opposed to somebody that doesn’t; that other somebody’s got to have something they bring to the table, and be willing to learn.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: And show some progress. But I think – yeah, I think as agriculture becomes – well as our population becomes less and less rural, we (in agriculture) are going to have to figure out how to help people make those steps.
RW: Give them training models.
MM: And learn, you know.
RW: Um-hmm.
[21:03]
MM: And be willing to accept them, too; I mean we all start out at the same place. Some of us get to start there when we’re young, on our dad’s place, and some of us start there when we’re 20 years old, or 21 years old, during college. But we all start at the same place; the question is how do you help somebody get beyond an entry-level knowledge.
RW: For your corporation, what are the day-in, day-out responsibilities for some of these different positions: like a cowboy?
MM: Cowboy?
RW: What would be a day-in, day-out – and I know there’s a cycle, so I mean –
MM: Right.
RW: In June it’s going to be a little different than in January.
MM: So all of our cowboys have a stewardship over some cattle. Some of them have cattle and irrigation, some of them have cattle and a range-type situation. So they would then make sure that the cattle have water, they’re on feed that the pasture rotations are happening on time – so there’s a certain amount of moving cattle. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 12
RW: Now is that –
MM: Go ahead.
RW: Is that implemented by the corporation – the rotation? I mean, that’s a big thing in this world today.
MM: Right. I would say the principles are implemented by the corporation, and then as it goes down, the details become more a decision of each individual cowboy.
RW: And that’s where that stewardship comes in?
MM: Right. So for example, on this specific ranch every year we sit down as a ranch staff and we have involvement from our wildlife personnel, as well as all the cattle people, and we say, “Here’s a grazing plan.” And some of the principles that we have is that we’re going to rotational graze, we’re going to basically graze our range pastures no more than once a year, we’re going to defer grazing on some of those every year, so that they have a full year to ferment.
We have some historical data that helps us understand how much feed is going to be available in that pasture. And so we’ll say, “Okay, this herd is going to move, basically through these pastures during these months, and these pastures during these months. And then this is where we’re going to end up.” And that’s kind of a ranch-level decision. Now, how an individual employee might implement that becomes a little more day-to-day. I mean, I need him to look at it and say, “I’m running out of feed here, I need to move,” or “These conditions have changed, I need to adjust that a little bit. You know, they trickle down to his level of decision-making. And, there’s never a year that goes by that the plan that we write out in January is going to be –
[23:52]
RW: Sure.
MM: Going to fit by the time we get to September, and so we have to re-plan, and re-think. But, I rely a lot on these guys that are – I’m going to say, “cowboy-level” employees to read what’s going on. You know, how has the rainfall pattern gone? Do we have the amount of feed we expected to have in this pasture, are we moving through quicker? How are we going to adjust? So they have a lot of personnel they have a lot of responsibility and autonomy in how they implement that plan.
Now in Nebraska, we were a little more geographically differentiated; and so a cowboy might make a little more – I mean, he would have a little more input up front as to exactly how he was going to do that by himself.
RW: I see; because you’re so close in here, with all the different?
MM: Yeah, because there you kind of had a herd, and a set of pastures that were unique to that herd. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 13
RW: I see.
MM: Here we might have three or four different herds, but they might – we can’t necessarily say; they border, and they overlap a little bit.
RW: Uh-huh?
MM: In terms of which pastures can go to which herd.
RW: Sure, um-hmm.
MM: And how we adjust from one year. So it’s a little less defined.
RW: Right.
MM: And maybe there’s a little less autonomy, in terms of how you actually plan that out, at a cowboy-level position. But how you implement it is no different than somebody –
RW: Sure.
MM: At another location; I mean, you still have to go out and read, “My cows gaining weight, or are they losing weight? Are they out of feed, or can they stay here? And if I need to move them, can I just move them by myself, or do I need do I need to get some help?” You know, it’s a function of what kind of pasture they’re in, and where you’re trying to move them to.
RW: Um-hmm. I’ve just got so many questions popping in my head.
MM: No, that’s fine.
RW: And you’re still in middle of your story –
MM: No, that’s fine.
RW: I haven’t even got you back here from Florida (which we will in a minute). But a couple of things – on most big ranches I’ve been hearing there’s a manager –
MM: Uh-huh.
RW: There’s cowboys, there’s wildlife specialists, there can be so many different people (sometimes a person might be wearing more than one hat). How does that play out here?
MM: Here? So, here we have – I’m the general manager; I’ve got the people that report to me, and I have two cattle foremen: I’ve got a cattle foreman that stays primarily at Promontory (manages that situation in the winter), in then helps here during the summer time. I have a cattle foreman that stays here year-round, and so he is in charge of the crews, and day-to-day events here. And then I have a wildlife manager that oversees the wildlife program. And I have some finance staff, you know, Kay (the secretary) – Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 14
RW: Um-hmm.
[26:48]
MM: And office manager, and then I have a controller that manages the finances for the ranch. So those are the people that work directly with me.
RW: Does the wildlife manager do both the one here, and over in Promontory?
MM: Yeah, he has got responsibility over here, and then ranches and Montana and Wyoming as well; so pretty wide. So, there’s a lot of interfacing that goes together, but we kind of line out, “Well, this is what our wildlife program is, and these are our cattle programs.” And we try and think integratedly, you know –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Have an integrated thought process as we do that; we don’t want to make decisions for cattle in a bubble, without regard to what’s going to happen from a wildlife perspective.
RW: Sure.
MM: And I think we understand really well (as a company) that in today’s world, you’ve got to capitalize on the resources on the ranch; and one of those resources is wildlife. You know, there’s cattle grazing (that’s one resource), but there’s a multitude of other resource.
RW: Sure.
MM: And as you capitalize on more and more of those resources, the income potential of the ranch goes up. And as you buy a place (at this point in time), the market’s accounting for all those other resources as well.
RW: Sure, um-hmm.
MM: And so if you don’t look at that, you’re not maximizing your return on the investment.
RW: Is the wildlife manager also managing grasses and waters? Or who is managing those kinds of resources?
MM: He certainly has a role in that; I think we all kind of do. He leads up our monitoring efforts; he’s been kind of the primary guy with the BLM recently – and that’s, in part because of his history with the ranch, and his association –
RW: So he’s the liaison with –
MM: Yeah.
RW: With your range-con? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 15
MM: Yeah. I don’t know that it necessarily has to be the wildlife guy that does that, but in our situation I think that’s been the best scenario. I mean in terms of the monitoring; but we have an individual that does a lot of our range improvements (if we do a re-seeding, or something like that), and he would work together with the cattle manager, and the wildlife manager (in terms of like the species mix, and where we would do it) –
[29:18]
There’s a lot of days that we get in a room together and say, “This is the project we want to do. What are our goals?”
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: “How do we best achieve those goals?” You know, and there’s a little conflict, that’s okay. You know, I think as long as we’re not contentious, we can disagree, and work through problems, and try and find the best possible solutions. So there’s a lot of planning that goes in before we ever –
RW: Before implementation.
MM: Before we ever go implement something, and it has to fit for everybody.
RW: Well this place has been a ranch for a long time, with a lot of different owners, and different kinds of things (I’ve heard) over the years: there have been youth groups, and there have been just a variety – I think hunting groups –
MM: Um-hmm.
RW: So how does that play out today? Is it mainly a cow-calf operation, or are there some of those other value-added activities?
MM: I would say if you ask “what’s our primary enterprise,” it’s still a cattle ranch. That said we recognize that wildlife plays a very important role in our ability to reach our income goals. So wildlife doesn’t necessarily play second fiddle to cattle – I mean, we look at those two together. And then our owners ask us to participate in the trek programs of the church [Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. And so we currently have about 8,000 trek participants that visit the ranch every year, and participate in handcart treks.
And that program has evolved over time; when it first started, there were very few treks – we let them have a lot of autonomy as to where they went on the ranch. And we had a graduate student from BYU that kind of headed that up, and returned several summers to kind of be the guide for them. And I manage that; as that program’s grown, we’ve had to standardize it a lot more, and contain it somewhat, so it doesn’t become the ranch [laughs], the only thing we can do here.
[31:35] Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 16
And so now, basically we handle four different groups at any given time during the summer. And we have basically four routes that they can take, and they can modify those to a great degree: they can take a short-cut here, or the long way around here (where they camp in different places, and can have a fairly unique experience). But they’re all on one of those four major routes that start and end at the same place, to where you know, it’s a lot more manageable.
RW: Um-hmm. Is there someone managing that – managing logistics?
MM: Yeah I mean, it comes back to me as the ranch manager, but I work with a group of church service volunteers that really do the day-to-day management of that. And then I just work with them on the plan of what resources they need. And they take care of scheduling all the supports: meeting with the trek participants, and outlining their plan, etc.
So, hold on just a second –
[Stop and start recording]
Can you hear what’s on the machine?
RW: Oh, yeah – there we go. Okay, just a little –
MM: So we were talking about treks, right?
RW: Right; so I’m just curious – are there food services people? How does that all work?
MM: That all is the responsibility of the stakes.
RW: The stakes?
MM: For their groups, themselves.
RW: Um-hmm. So you provide the place, --
MM: We provide the place, the handcarts, the routes.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Training; but the groups that actually come here provide, you know, their own meals.
RW: Sure.
MM: That kind of stuff.
RW: Okay. Do you have hunting groups as well, coming up – with the wildlife? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 17
MM: Right; what we’ve done this last year, is we’ve leased the ranch out to several groups of individuals that hunt on the ranch. We manage how many animals they can take, what’s the quality of animals we want them to take, you know; we’re part of the CWMU –
RW: What does that stand for?
[33:41]
MM: Which is Coordinated Wildlife Management Unit.
RW: Got you.
MM: Which is – basically, Utah is programmed for working with private land owners.
RW: Okay.
MM: And in doing that, what happens is they get a certain split of the tags. So the public – there’s a public draw for a certain number of our hunts, and then there’s a certain number that we can market through –
RW: I see.
MM: Our system.
RW: I see.
MM: That way there is some public access to the ranch.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: As well as some private hunts that are sold. And so we basically lease the land out and those tags out to individuals; and then part of that lease is they have to provide those hunting opportunities for the public as well.
RW: Right; so the public access is monitored through an organization – whether it be the LDS church coming in with youth groups or a group that you’re leasing land to? Because there is open access on some ranches: I interviewed one rancher.
MM: Yeah.
RW: So that would be –
MM: Anybody that comes here is monitored –
RW: Right.
MM: Somewhat.
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 18
MM: Yeah, we really don’t have any free public –
RW: Sure.
MM: Access to the ranch.
RW: Well let’s get you back – we’re in Florida.
MM: So we’re in Texas, and we’re headed to Florida.
RW: Yes.
MM: So I was in Texas for two years, and that was from 2004 to 2006. And then there was a change in management in Florida, and so I was asked to go there. And while I was there, I managed their heifer development enterprise, as well as their genetic – their bull production.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Pure bred herds. So I worked there for four years.
RW: Are the different ranches doing different types of cattle, dependent on the places?
MM: That’s one of the things that we’ve changed recently, is we’ve tried to get more on the same page.
RW: Um-hmm.
[35:36]
MM: Now obviously in Florida you have Brahman in your cattle, and a different type of animal than you’d have here, but we’ve tried to unify our selection criteria; try and align our genetic programs to more closely match.
RW: Um-hmm. That’s one of the things that I’ve found the most fascinating during all these interviews: the different, very closely – scientific almost – approach that many different ranchers have [to cattle production] (and they’re not all similar), but –
MM: They’ll have the reason, huh?
RW: Yeah, it’s fascinating.
MM: Yeah.
RW: And I’m curious about what you guys are doing.
MM: Right, well basically we wanted to get on the same page in terms of what we wanted, and in terms of an end product. And so – I mean, we try and take a scientific approach to it, but I guess the way we look at it is, our goals are: number one, we want to be efficient, Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 19
and number two, we want to provide a product that’s desirable to the end user, you know, the consumer of beef.
And so part of our focus is marbling and tenderness, which are the eating quality traits that I think we can control; and then some of it is more efficiency based. And so basically, over the last five years we’ve tried to develop selection indexes, and utilize genetic tools that are out there, to arrive at those two things.
And so Florida has their own – they basically use what’s called a three-breed rotation, where they use Brangus, Simbrah, and then a composite that’s made up of South Devon, Red Poll, and Brahma cattle; they’re all a quarter, to three-eighths Brahman (each one of those different breeds). And then they just rotate through them. And that manages cross-breeding and provides hypered vigor, and creates an efficient situation, you know, a lot of efficiency while still ended up at something that is desirable. And we’re trying to work to make it even more desirable and better.
RW: Right. You’re trying to market a good beef –
MM: Good beef.
RW: But you’ve got to have a good mother.
MM: Exactly. So we’re trying to do both.
RW: Right.
MM: And then here (in our more northern or western climates) we’re doing a lot of the same things, only instead of using rotational breeding, we try to put them into a composite: less the Brahman, we’re still using essentially Angus, Semintol and the South Devon. And then our selection criteria is very similar to what we were doing in Florida, to where you have good cow efficient growth, and then comparable eating experience –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Or eating quality, at the other end.
[38:41]
RW: Well when you’re moving folks around (if you’re in one area with certain cattle that have certain characteristics, and then you to move another area) what’s the uptake and the learning curve?
MM: [Laughs] You know, it probably depends a little bit, which location you’re changing to and from. But, I don’t think any time you move to a new ranch, until you’ve been there for a cycle and seen a year, do you really – I don’t think you have a very good grasp until you’ve been at a place a year; that’s my perspective.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 20
MM: Having moved a lot.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: And certainly you don’t really understand the situation until you’ve been there multiple years, and seen it in a couple of different growing seasons (because Mother Nature is going to throw you a different curve every year).
RW: Lot’s of variables.
MM: Yeah, I mean I think if you have some good, foundational principles you don’t necessarily get in a lot of trouble that first year you’re at a new place.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: The principles of grass production, and range, and cattle production don’t change from one location to the next, but the application of those principles changes dramatically –
RW: Right.
MM: When you move; and so you’ve got to go through a growing season while you’re figuring exactly how much should you supplement with, and of course there are programs that help us figure that out.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: They carry from one employee to the next –
RW: Right; well that’s what I was going to ask you because there are principles that you learn that old folks might call the “book learning,” and then there’s the “people learning.” And I guess those two have to mesh.
MM: It’s a blend of art and science.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: The science is what you take with you wherever you go; the art is how you actually implement it when you get there.
RW: Sure.
MM: And that’s unique to every individual.
RW: Sure.
MM: So we basically try to have programs so that, you know, nobody can get too far out of the lines and get into a wreck, or you know, then not everybody has to figure out the wheel –
[40:56] Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 21
RW: Right.
MM: Every time. But I mean, we also want people to have autonomy, and it’s not like we work in a laboratory, or a factory where we control all the environments, so we need people to have the latitude to –
RW: Right.
MM: To change according to the situation (which means you’ve got to give people enough freedom to do one, without getting in trouble or having to re-invent the wheel).
RW: Sure.
MM: There’s always room for the art in our business.
RW: And with this business, having an element of risk, or danger –
MM: Sure.
RW: That’s got to play into it as well.
MM: Yeah, it does.
RW: To have that autonomy –
MM: Yeah.
RW: To think on your feet.
MM: Absolutely, you’ve got to think on your feet. And I think that’s with regard to risk, I mean that’s just part – when you get in our business, you are going to accept that you know, there’s a certain number of risks: there’s weather risks, there’s financial (the market risk). And then when it comes to employees there’s risks that they incur when they go out to the job. And so you try and manage every one of those risks; as a manager, you try and think through, “How do I mitigate market risk? How do I mitigate environmental or weather risk? And how do I help keep employees safe and productive?” And, what are the programs you put into place to manage all of that?
RW: Sure. Well can we talk a little bit about the day-in, day-out? We were talking a little bit about that before; like so much of what a ranch manager (or a cowboy) is doing can be on horseback –
[42:44]
MM: Um-hmm.
RW: But a lot of people are using four-wheelers today.
MM: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 22
RW: And some of the people I interviewed in the very, very beginning were finishing out – had been ranch kids themselves. One woman cooked for a big hay crew, others came up on the swather. But we don’t have that so much anymore, because we have machinery.
MM: Right.
RW: We’ve got the four-wheeler today, and we’ve got the cell phone. So how has things in the business end of it changed because of all of this mechanization?
MM: So let me make sure I understand you – so are you asking about the day-to-day of the cowboys, or more –
RW: Yeah, the day-to-day, like you know, are cowboys more on a four-wheeler today than on a horse?
MM: I would say probably still not (in our situation). The ranch here, in Utah – so much of it is sage brush, you know, lots of topographical change, and we have some country that’s very, very steep (our mountain-type country), very inaccessible on a four-wheeler. Even some of our more foothills country that’s sage brush, you know, you still need a horse to move through it, be efficient, herd cattle in it.
Now on some of our irrigated ground (which is more meadows and fields, and that), we tend to use four-wheelers a fair amount. And it depends a little bit on the job that you’re doing –
RW: Right.
MM: If I have an employee that’s irrigating his pasture, and he’s got to move cows from one of those irrigated pastures to another, while he’s down there on the four-wheeler it’s real easy to change his water, buzz over to where the cattle are at, open the gate, run around them, and push them through; the four-wheeler is a very good tool for that, and it’s way more efficient than trying to get a horse down there. And, in some cases, where it’s boggy, the four-wheeler actually gets around better than the horse; whereas, if we’re out in a range setting, most all of those moves are done by horseback.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: It’s just a function. And even when you’re on irrigated land, if you’re moving cattle and you need to doctor something, or need you know, you’re going to have to get to a horse to go do that. So those guys do spend a fair amount of time horseback as well.
[45:14]
RW: The equipment – which one of the pieces of equipment of a rancher, or a cowboy is a horse – are they supplied by the ranch? Are they bringing their own saddle? Horse? Horses? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 23
MM: So all of our guys have their own tack – that’s one thing that we do push to the cowboys, to bring their own saddle, bridle. We help supply some money to put towards that (we kind of have a fixed tack allowance that we provide employees), but they own their own tack. With horses we can go either way; my personal feeling is that most cowboys like to have their own horse, and take some pride in their own horse. And most of them want to own some horses, and so most of our employees here provide at least some of their own horses. And then we have some ranch horses that are available to fill in the gaps. But my preference would be that they own their own horse – and that’s not just so that we don’t have to put out the expense of owning them, but the interest level of the cowboy in his own horses is higher, which means it’s probably going to be better trained, it’s going to know that guy, he’s going to be ridden by the same guy all the time, and probably reduce his accidents, and guys seem to be more fulfilled when they’re riding horses that, probably, better fit them as individuals.
RW: Sure, right.
MM: So we go both ways on the horses; we own some (the ranch owns some), but most – well, all my full-time employees own horses (all my full-time employees that are actively in the cattle) own their own horses.
RW: Um-hmm. With horses come all kinds of different unique things: along with the tack, there’s the shoeing, and there is –
MM: We provide a lot of that.
RW: A lot of the shoeing, and vets – as well as for the cows, but also –
[47:25]
MM: Right. So we provide shoeing, we provide veterinary care (up to a certain point); if a cowboy owns his own horse, he’s going to still stand the risk of that horse, at some level, and we’ve kind of got a horse policy that designates that. If a cowboy owns their own horse, and they get kicked, or cut in the corral, and they need a vet to come attend to it, we would do that; but if a cowboy lost a horse, we wouldn’t necessarily go replace it for him.
RW: Sure. So with the veterinarian, is there somebody you contract out?
MM: Yes.
RW: Or do you have someone on staff?
MM: All of our ranches contract out with local veterinarians.
RW: Um-hmm. Well, I’m going to step back, and I keep interrupting –
MM: No, you’re fine. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 24
RW: Because something comes to my mind. So you’re in Florida now?
MM: So I was in Florida; I was in Florida for four years.
RW: And what was your position there?
MM: I was a cattle manager; I was over what they called the “development herds,” which was their heifer development (so yearling heifers, two-year old heifers), and then their seed stock herd that they raise bulls out of. So I had the genetic program for the ranch. So that was my job.
That environment was much more of – well, there was very little native pasture; most of the pastures down there were cultivated or improved grasses. And so a big pasture down there was 300-500 acres; you know, here it is 5,000 or 10,000 acres. So a lot more intensive in its management in terms of what we did for cattle, and grass, both.
RW: Do you have similar kinds of set-ups, where you’ve got feedyards, and grazing, and moving cattle to – I mean you don’t have temperature changes –
MM: Right.
RW: So you may not have to move first-year heifer somewhere else.
[49:23]
MM: In Florida, the ranch was broken up into 13 different units; so in a way, it was a collection of 13 mini-ranches, you might say. And each one of those units had a foreman, and a couple of cowboys that worked for him, and a set of equipment: pick-up, tractors, horse barn. So they were kind of geographically spread out across the ranch.
And then my role, as the cattle development manager, we raised the yearling, and two-year old heifers, and then we’d go out to those other units, and provide them replacement cattle. And then as they culled, or had older cattle fall out, then they’d sell them, and we’d continuously provide them with – so there was kind of a flow. But each one of those units was unique in its own way, but it was part of this bigger system.
RW: Sure.
MM: Is that kind of going down the right road?
RW: Yeah, yeah. I’m kind of getting to the end of – I don’t want to take up your day I know you’ve a got lots going on.
MM: Oh, that’s fine.
RW: But I have a few questions before we get back out here. With operations in Florida, and Texas, and other places that you’ve been – it all feeds into a major corporation, and so is Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 25
there a person that is over every single thing that feeds down? And where is that person located?
MM: Yeah, we have – our corporate offices are in Salt Lake.
RW: Okay.
MM: And we have a company president that’s there.
RW: And then there will be folks like yourself, that are managing an area –
MM: Right.
RW: That reports back to the corporate?
MM: Right; we have a company president that’s in Salt Lake, and then the vice president that’s over cattle enterprises is currently the guy that’s the general manager in Florida.
RW: I see.
[51:35]
MM: So I actually report to somebody in Florida, and then he reports to them.
RW: I see, okay.
MM: But yeah, there’s a corporate office.
RW: Uh-huh. With some of the principles of business management [that] are applied across the board, but there’s some things that have to be massaged in various areas, because of different terrain, different cattle they’ll be raising?
MM: Right
RW: And the culture, and so forth. Are you doing things similarly with the selling?
MM: Yeah, there’s a concerted effort, in terms of marketing; and that’s changing a little. (I probably don’t want to go into all the specifics of that.)
RW: Sure.
MM: But our cattle are sold in the open market. As an investment business –
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: For the church, our cattle are all marketed through the open market; but there’s a concerted effort to market those (so that it’s not just me selling my cattle from here). Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 26
RW: Right, a grouping. And so, you know, like a lot of folks (I’ve been hearing) when there’s still little groups that still might take their cattle to an auction, or they have somebody that they work with year, after year, after year. But most folks are selling through video auction, or something on a bigger scale; is that something we’re talking about here or something more on a bigger scale than that?
MM: Yeah, I mean we’re basically channeling all our cattle to the same location.
RW: Got you.
MM: Feeding them similarly.
RW: Got you. So with these different feedyards (like the one in Corinne), are there many throughout?
MM: Yeah.
RW: That the corporation owns and manages?
MM: Right. The feedyard in Corinne is actually not owned by us, we use a contractor there –
RW: I see.
[53:35]
MM: So every location – I mean, you have the ranch, but then you’re going to need to rely on other people –
RW: Sure, yeah.
MM: To provide support that you don’t necessarily have; and so that’s what we have there.
RW: Got you.
MM: Is we have a need for a cheap way to manage some of those smaller cattle –
RW: Um-hmm?
MM: That probably need a few more resources than what we can supply at Promontory, on more of an extensive grazing situation.
RW: I see.
MM: And so we utilize a contractor there. And every ranch, I think, has somebody kind of like that.
RW: Uh-huh. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 27
MM: Close to them, where you know, if they need to feed some bulls, or if they need to do something, then you can do that more efficiently in like a grower-type yard, or something like that.
RW: Right. So local vendors, like the veterinarian, or feedyards – are those various things that the corporation moves out to?
MM: Right.
RW: I see, okay. Well, did you come from Florida, back to ranch here?
MM: So a year and a half ago I came back here. And then my job here is I’m over this ranch, and then I have some responsibility over our ranches in Wyoming and Montana, as well.
RW: I see. What’s your favorite part of this whole, big [operation]?
MM: You know – the whole thing? [Laughs]
RW: The whole – the gestalt of the whole thing – what’s your favorite?
MM: Well, you know, it’s probably changed some. I knew I loved agriculture – I have all along; and I think as you move through your career, you’re trying to figure out: “Well what do I need to do to provide for my family?” And I mean, I love the cattle industry, and I love range, and agriculture, you know, in general; I love this ranch.
You know, of all the ranches I’ve been on, I like this production system, I like the involvement in range, and wildlife, and the interactions of all that together. I like our system here; I like that it’s very range-based, and multiple-enterprises, and multiple-uses, and things like that, and it’s close to home.
[55:55]
But, I look at my job today, and it’s a lot about people, and it’s a lot about finances, and it’s not much about getting on a horse anymore, but it’s still a part of it. And so, I like the diversity of it; the ties to the land, and cattle, and growing, and being able to see what you accomplished within a year.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So I guess there’s a lot of values, and benefits to what I do, and I like it.
RW: How does that work with a family? Are your children involved with – do you feel like they are agricultural children?
MM: Yeah, I do; less so than if they were on a family operation, or what I grew up. But I guess the way I try to relate to our employees, and I guess the way I feel about it is, we are not a family corporation, but we are trying to be family-friendly. So we have to look out after Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 28
the interests of the ranch, as well as provide some opportunities for kids, and that kind of thing.
So I mean, safety comes first; we have to look at safety. And then we also have to obey the law; and there’s child labor laws that say we can do certain things, and we can’t do other things. And you know there is a minimum age that we can employee kids, and whatnot; and that might not be the case if we all owned our own family operation.
I think I’ve been lucky enough to have my kids with me in the truck, out on the ground; we’ve been able to get on the horse and go ride (it’s not every single day, you know); they’re not as big a part of it as I was growing up – but then they’ve had other interests too.
RW: Sure. Is your wife?
MM: My wife is from Olympia, Washington; grew up in an urban environment. She’s been a good trooper [laughs]; she’s followed me around. No, I think she’s always been somebody that’s been open. I mean, she grew up liking to camp, liking the outdoors – she wasn’t against an outdoor-type lifestyle, or spending time in the outdoors at all. And so I think she’s like it. I think there are times when she’s felt like we were very rural [laughs], you know. And there’s some hardship that ranch wives have, certainly. Certainly a lot of hardship that ranch wives have, in terms of getting kids to activities, and you know, if the bus doesn’t come to the front door, how do you deal with that situation?
RW: Um-hmm.
[58:48]
MM: But she’s been a big – been very supportive; and I think you need that.
RW: Yeah. I’ve just got two questions to finish up here. My first one: we talked a teeny bit about the culture: the culture maybe when you’re in Texas or Florida, or Nebraska, or here. I sometimes ask people in an occupation that you rely so much on someone else for your own personal safety, for the welfare of the whole operation: have you ever thought about some of the key characteristics that are running through the folks that you work with? I, myself, (huge outsider) but I’ve interviewed so many people, certain things just keep bubbling up: similar traits that I’ve noticed with cowboys and ranchers; and I wonder about you, if you’re seeing some similar characteristics?
MM: Sure; sure there are. You know, you’ve got to have people that are independent, willing to go work on their own; they need to be fairly assertive. And you know, if they don’t love being outside, and physical labor, they’re just in the wrong business (honestly); not that we can’t have all types, but if your goal is not to be outside, working with your hands in a fairly physical work environment, then it’s just probably not the best fit, right?
And then, I think a lot of times cowboys get labeled a little anti-social, and I don’t necessarily see that. I think some of our best cowboys are very, very social, and good Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 29
communicators, and coordinators, and things like that. And I think, as you work in a bigger system, you have to be more that.
RW: Sure.
[60:53]
MM: You know if you can’t work with other people you probably have to work on a small system, or you are the only person involved; but yeah, there’s certain common threads. I guess you work with guys that place value on what they get to do every day – more so than material wealth. I guess that’s a decision we all make. It’s not that you can’t make decent money in agriculture, but to some degree you’ve got have a trade-off of do you do this because you love it, and you enjoy it, and you want to do it day-to-day, or do you want to go make a lot of money in some other profession, and do it on the side? And you know, I think those of us that are in it day-to-day accept that you know, there probably are other professions that pay more, but do you choose that over doing what you enjoy doing?
RW: Sure.
MM: And so, I think that’s a common thread.
RW: Um-hmm. Well my last question to you is, what do you see the future of ranching?
MM: Oh, I think it’s bright. There’s interesting challenges, because you know, you can look at the glass half empty and say, “We have political issues, there’s environmental issues, there’s lots of changes.” You can look at it that way, or you can say, “Well there’s a lot of upside in this business, too.” I guess when I look at what’s going on world wide, you know, we’ve got a population of the world that is, number one, growing and they’re becoming more affluent. They’re going to want more meat, and milk, and protein, and a better quality diet than what they’ve had in the past.
And if you look at where in the world you can grow cattle: the soil types, the range environment, you know – not every country is going to feed itself. There’s going to be a lot of opportunity in the Pacific Rim, there’s going to be a lot of opportunity in India, and China. And, if we look outside our own borders, I think the upside potential for a market for our product is pretty good. We just have to figure out through some of the hard spots to do it.
[63:40]
One of the interesting things is, somebody read to me an agenda of a Utah Cattlemen’s meeting in the 1920s, and it was interesting because it was about the same topics, you know. Some of the things we think are going to put us out of business, have been existent for a long time. And, maybe that’s naïve, maybe they’ll put us out of business, but I think there’s a lot of potential. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 30
As a father of a son that’s looking at agriculture I want him to look broadly at all the choices that are out there for careers, but I wouldn’t discourage him from getting into agriculture, because I think there’s a lot of upside.
RW: What’s your advice to your son? What career path – if that’s what he wants to be, what are some of the things you would encourage him to do to get there?
MM: My oldest son is a senior in high school, and trying to figure out what he wants to do. He likes to come work on the ranch, he likes the horses, the cows; he enjoys that. I’ve just encouraged him initially, as he goes into college, you know, cast his net wide at first, and figure out is this really what he wants? Is this what he’s really passionate about or not? I don’t see in him the same passion I had at his age, but they may not mean he shouldn’t do it. I think he’s maybe got a more broad interest than what I did, per se. But, if he wanted to go into agriculture, I would be fully supportive of it. I think he’s just got to try and figure out his path, what is important to him.
RW: Mike, I really appreciate so much you making the time for me – you’re so, so busy, I know that.
MM: [Laughs]
RW: I always ask people at the very end (I called and visited with you, sent you some questions) are there things as you were knowing I was coming) that you were thinking about, that you wanted to share, that I just haven’t asked you? That we haven’t had a chance to visit about?
[65:50]
MM: No, I don’t think so. I think, when I look at agriculture – or ranching more specifically – I think it’s a good life, but it’s something you have to choose (it’s not everybody’s goal). But, I think it’s a unique thing that can be a lot of fun; and if you want to bad enough, there’s a way you can make it work – almost anybody could make it work if they want to bad enough, and are willing to do what it takes, you know.
RW: Do you see the corporate ranch being a bigger player than individual family ranches in the future?
MM: Well yeah, I think that’s probably the way life’s going; I don’t know that that’s necessarily positive – I don’t think it’s necessarily negative either. I mean, if it wasn’t for a corporation like this, then I look at somebody in my situation, that grew up one of eight brothers, on a relatively small ranch, where was the opportunity there for me? And, I’m sure there’s ways that we could have expanded or grown, and taken on additional risk to make that happen if it was the ultimate goal.
But, this has certainly provided an opportunity for me to do what I want, and for everybody else that works here, you know, an opportunity. And so I don’t think it’s necessarily a negative thing. I think there’s a lot of good things from family-owned businesses, and I think that’s something that we need to protect, and foster in our society, Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 31
as well. So I don’t necessarily think it should shift completely corporate (or vice versa), but I think having a mix is a good thing. So yeah, I think it’s going to become more corporate, just because I just think that’s the world is moving, and I don’t know that that is going to reverse.
RW: Well thank you so much; I really, really appreciate this.
MM: You’re welcome.
[End recording – 68:05]

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Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 1
RANCH FAMILY DOCUMENTATION PROJECT
TRANSCRIPTION COVER SHEET
Interviewee: Mike Meek
Place of Interview: Deseret Land and Livestock Office, Utah
Date of Interview: January 10, 2012
Interviewer: Randy Williams
Recordist: Randy Williams
Recording Equipment: Marantz digital recorder: Model no.: PMD660;
Shure omnidirectional microphone: Model no.: MX 183
Transcription Equipment: Power Player Transcription Software: Executive Communication Systems with foot pedal
Transcribed by: Susan Gross
Transcript Proofed by: Randy Williams, 12 March 2012;
Brief Description of Contents: Mr. Mike Meek talks a little bit about growing up as one of eight kids on a small ranch. He discusses how he made a career as a rancher, ranching for a corporate ranch. He explains his various roles throughout his career in corporate ranching.
Reference: RW = Randy Williams (Interviewer)
MM = Mike Meek (Interviewee)
NOTE: Interjections during pauses or transitions in dialogue such as “uh” and starts and stops in conversations are not included in transcribed. All additions to transcript are noted with brackets.
TAPE TRANSCRIPTION
[00:01]
RW: Here we are; it is the tenth of January, 2012, and I’m out at the Deseret Land and Livestock office, with Mike Meek (the operation manager).
Mike, tell me a little bit about your background: your full name, your birthday.– Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 2
MM: Okay, I’m Michael Meek; I grew up in Preston, Idaho. We had a small family operation there; I was the fifth generation (I was part of that). It was founded back in the late 1800s. Our operation there was primarily cattle and farming (we grew alfalfa hay, and some barley, and then had some cattle).
I was one of eight brothers, and it was obviously not going to support all of us. And so I knew agriculture was something I enjoyed a lot, but as I grew up and started trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. I had to decide: “Do I want to do something else in town, and make agriculture a small part of my life?” Or, whether I wanted to make it a big part of my life.
And I went to BYU; was working on a bachelor’s degree there, and was in agri-business, and looked at several different options. I had the opportunity to do an internship with our company on a ranch in Nebraska, and met a man named Bert Tykerd, who was the general manager of that ranch, and could kind of see a way that I could make production agriculture my career, where I could do it as a living, as opposed to something doing on the side, or having a job in town, as well.
And so that’s what piqued my interest. And then upon graduating from BYU, I went back to Nebraska and started working there, a cowboy.
RW: As a cowboy?
MM: Yeah.
RW: Can you talk a little bit about working as a cowboy?
MM: Right.
RW: I guess in the olden days they called those for hire –
MM: Right.
RW: Ranch hands?
MM: So my job in Nebraska – it was a good situation, in that ranch was split into different units, and then each cowboy (essentially) had his own herd, and his own acreage that he was in charge of (he had a stewardship over a certain area). And so anyway, it was a little bit like having your own min-ranch that was financed for you. And you know, you had to fit the program, do you know, a lot of the same things that the other cowboys did. But you did have some autonomy and some feeling like, you know, you were responsible for something, and had some decision-making ability.
[02:36]
And so I worked there for three years. And within that time I got a master’s degree at Colorado State. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 3
RW: What was that in?
MM: It was an animal science degree, but it was called beef management systems. And so I studied the whole beef production chain, you know, financially how that worked (specifically cow-calf operations): what made money, what didn’t make money, what were some of the things to focus on.
I did a master’s thesis using data from that ranch in Nebraska on heifer development, and how to develop heifers economically. So that was a great learning experience. And after being in Nebraska for three years, and completing this master’s degree, I had the opportunity at that point to go to Cody, Wyoming, as a foreman for our ranch there, at the time.
And so I went there for two years. And while we were there we had some irrigated ground, as well as some range ground, and I’d just supervise that operation (irrigation, some hay production, mostly pasture grazing, and the range ground).
RW: Was it part of the corporation as well, this ranch?
MM: Um-hmm, that was part of the same situation.
RW: Did you have a family at this time, were they with you?
MM: Yeah; so actually I was married when I was at BYU, and we had our first child right before – in the semester before I left. So the whole time I was in Nebraska working on my master’s degree we had a baby.
RW: How does that work with ranch families and corporations? Do they provide housing? How does all that play out?
MM: Yeah. All of our ranches have some company housing that’s available for employees. And you know, it’s a little subject to how long you’ve been there, what your position is, and you know, there are always some houses that are a little bigger than others. But depending on the ranch you’re on, you might only live in company housing. This ranch, here in Woodruff, we have several employees that live in Woodruff, and drive out, and others that live here on the ranch.
RW: Those folks that live in Woodruff, are those in company homes, or are they their own homes?
MM: No, those are their own homes.
RW: I see.
MM: And so, you know, I guess that’s one of the decisions our employees make, is if they own their own home, they’re going to accrue some equity in that –
RW: Sure. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 4
[05:07]
MM: Which they’ll have something down the road; if they work here, then they can put more money into some other investment, and hopefully have a house some day.
RW: Sure.
MM: It’s always a concern for our employees – how are they building equity in housing if they’re always living in company housing. And we have some financial tools that help as part of our benefit package, that help employees prepare for that. But none the less there is an onus on them to set aside some money, or try and figure out how they’re going to prepare for the day when they don’t live in the company house.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So that’s one of the unique things about working for our ranch where you’re part of a corporation, or you know, it’s not a family-owned situation.
RW: Right.
MM: You’ve got to think about your retirement –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: In a little different way than you would if you were on a family operation.
RW: Sure. And I guess where the ranch located here, in Woodruff; it’s really quite close –
MM: Yes.
RW: To a town.
MM: Yeah.
RW: And other ranches are going to be further –
MM: Yeah, we have ranches that are 40 miles from the nearest town, and sometimes that town isn’t very big.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Or very many resources.
RW: That would make a difference in housing.
MM: Yeah.
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 5
MM: Yeah; so our ranch in Nebraska would be difficult to live off the ranch and work there; I mean, you could do it, but there would be a pretty sizable commute.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: But different ranches are a little bit different circumstances.
RW: Sure. Well, continue with your story.
MM: Okay.
RW: I’m sorry to interrupt.
MM: No, that’s fine. So in ’99 I left Cody and came here for the first time. And I came here as a cattle manager, and had responsibility, basically over the cattle enterprise for the ranch. I had a crew of guys that worked with me, in terms of getting the work done, but I was in charge of, basically the cattle program, marketing, purchasing feeds; a lot of the inputs –
RW: Could you talk a little bit about the cattle program – are you talking about from feeding, to –?
MM: Yeah, we were primarily a cow-calf, yearling program, and so we had some hay that we were putting up, as well as purchasing feeds that we might use. We bought quite a bit of hay, and then we used some other supplemental feed. So there were some inputs that I’d buy.
[07:44]
Anyway, we were a cow-calf, yearling program. So the calves would primarily be born here, in Woodruff. And then at weaning time most of our cattle go to Box Elder County; they either go to some property that we own out in Promontory –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Right off the north end of the Great Salt Lake where we have some winter grazing.
RW: Okay.
MM: Some of the calves go there, and others went to a feedyard in Corrine –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Where they were back-grounded. And typically we would send the bigger end of the calves to Promontory; the smaller end would go to Corrine, where they had a little better feed resources, to catch up.
And then the following spring, those calves would come back here to the ranch, and we’d graze them on irrigated lands. And for that summer time, if they were steers, or our stocker heifers – we’d sell them then, off the ranch at that point in time. And if they were Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 6
a replacement heifer, we’d send them back to Promontory for their first year as a cow – as a bred heifer.
RW: Okay.
MM: And they have their first down there, at Promontory, and then come back as a pair, and then they’d stay here –
RW: Okay.
MM: Basically the rest of their life.
RW: So your second-year mothers are here, but your first-year are down where it’s a little warmer –
MM: A little warmer, better climate.
RW: Right.
MM: Right; we can calve them a little bit earlier.
RW: Sure.
MM: And take care of them a little better down there.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So our youngest animals go down there for the winter time, and then the older ones stay up here year-round, and endure the Rich county cold.
RW: Um-hmm. Now did I hear you say, you said, “pairs” down there when they’re first –?
MM: Well, we bring them back as pairs. As first-calf heifers.
RW: You bring them back, but the weaned all go down there?
MM: Yeah, the weaned go down separate.
RW: Okay. I bet that’s a loud enterprise that day.
MM: Yeah.
[Laughter]
So, I was in charge of planning for that, making sure we had enough help to accomplish all that.
RW: Is this all deeded ground you’re running on, or do you have any permits? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 7
[09:40]
MM: We are primarily deeded ground here; we do have some BLM ground, and we have some state ground as well.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: But we’re mostly deeded ground, which is unique in the west.
RW: With all this movement – I assume most of it you’re doing through semis – but do you do any trailing or herding?
MM: Well, within the ranch –
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: It’s all trailing cattle back and forth.
RW: Right.
MM: But in order to get to Promontory, you’ve got to put them on a truck.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Yeah. And that’s basically a three-hour drive in a truck to get down there; so it’s quite a ways. So, yeah, we utilize trucks; and we contract that out.
RW: I see.
MM: We utilize – we don’t do enough trucking throughout the year to want to own our own, you know, our own semis –
RW: Sure.
MM: And that kind of stuff; so we contract that out.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So I was here from ’99 to 2004 in that role, and then I went to Texas for two years as a ranch manager (we have an operation in Paducah, Texas). And that was an interesting change of climate, and challenges, and things.
RW: Talk a little bit about that. I mentioned before we went on tape that I’ve been over in Elko at the Cowboy Poetry Gathering, and I’ve met ranchers from all over.
MM: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 8
RW: And one of the things hear about Texas, and some of those places, is the land is different; I mean, there’s different – like one was talking about smaller spaces, and different vegetation, and different kinds of considerations.
MM: Right. Well our ranch there was – well, the nearest town was Paducah, Texas (which is a very small town). But we’d be south and east of Amarillo about three miles (in between Amarillo and Wichita Falls). So we’re still west Texas, a fairly arid climate. One of the biggest challenges on that ranch was brush control; there’s a lot of mesquite brush, and then – it’s called a red-berry juniper (which is similar to the blue-berry junipers we have here, in Utah), but it’s a root sprouting plant. So if you burn it, or cut the top off of it, it just doubles the stems, and comes right back. So brush control was a big challenge. And we utilized control burns and grubbing, and lots of other techniques to try and control brush.
[12:14]
There was a little bit of farming on that ranch. That was an area that there was a fair amount of wheat and cotton that was grown traditionally. When the CRP program [Conservation Reserve Program] came out, a lot of those farms came out of agriculture, went in the CRP program for a few years; and then as they came back out, a lot of it went back into grazing programs, or that. So we had a little bit of farmed grazing. Of course, hay feeding wasn’t much of an issue down there, because we really didn’t have much winter. So we didn’t put up any hay; we had just a little bit on hand, if we had to feed something in a corral or something. But you know, winter was more about supplementing cows, and taking care of them, and getting things calved out, and things like that.
One of the interesting thing, you know, you talk about cultures: you have the Texas brush popper cowboy culture, and then you come from, you know, more of a Great Basin –
RW: Buckaroo.
MM: Buckaroo culture that was quite a bit different.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: They laughed at my long rope [laughs] when I first went down there. But no, it was a lot of fun.
RW: Dally, hard and fast. [Laughs]
MM: They were all hard and fast. But you know, one of the things that I’ve said to a lot of people since I came back is we think about hard and fast as being a really dangerous, you know, whatever you’ve got, has got you. But you know, the good cowboys down there, they always had their horse set up right, you know, they handled their slack; I mean they were a lot of fun to work around, and I learned a lot about just their culture, and how they did it. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 9
The other thing that was pretty interesting is when you were gathering cattle in all that brush, how regimented their cattle drives were. Whoever was in charge that day (the foreman, or whoever), you’d trot down one fence, and he’d drop off people as he wanted them to be scattered across the pasture. And then as you moved across, your job was to find the guy on each side of you, and get the cattle in front of you as you move through the brush, and that way you could actually gather up the cattle in the brush (instead of just)-- . And you’re job was to stay in your hole. When you got to the other end you were supposed to be where he put you. And so it was a lot more regimented than I think a lot of our cattle work is here.
RW: Hmm.
[14:38]
MM: And in some ways I’ve missed that because people knew what their role was, and they did it, and they did it well.
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: So that whole Texas experience was interesting, and a new climate.
RW: Well that brings a question to my mind about hiring staff, hiring cowboys, and others. When you’re in one space and place (because of the culture and the environment), obviously you’re hiring people that know that environment. How does that work as a manager to hire folks? How do you go about doing it?
MM: So I kind of need to differentiate a little bit between our full-time guys and day workers (or part-time). You know, when I think you’re hiring full-time guys – the way we manage, we like to give people a stewardship, and let them have some responsibility. And so you want somebody that is familiar with the area, but also somebody that wants to take on a bigger responsibility and take charge.
A lot of the tasks we have to do: branding, or weaning, or something, are going to require a few more guys than what we want to put on full-time, and so we bring in day workers. And those are almost always local cowboys, and a lot of them have ranches of their own and are looking for a little bit of extra, or maybe they have a job in town and want to take some time to come do it. We have an individual that helps us a lot that retired from UDOT [Utah Department of Transportation], after the first retirement years wanted to cowboy, and comes out and helps us quite a bit.
RW: How do your find folks?
[16:39]
MM: We cast a pretty wide net for full-time folks. We always consider local guys, but we recruit a lot out of universities,
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 10
MM: And then we get resumes from people that find us on the website, or other things. But we have a pretty active role with the recruiting.
RW: Well what are you looking for? Now that you’ve risen up in the ranks –
MM: Yeah.
RW: And you’ve been in, it sounds like, most of the positions that you’re hiring for – what are the things you’re looking for?
MM: Well experience is one thing, but I guess that experience can be different things. I guess every time you hire for a cowboy position, you’re going to look at that specific position. You know, we may fill that with somebody right out of college; we do internships, so a lot of times we’ll bring in an individual and let them work part time through a summer. And if it seems like they understand cattle, and think through problems, and can really take care of cattle (have some responsibility, will accept responsibility), that’s an individual we might fit for that job. Or we might know somebody local that maybe has gained some experience, either with us as a day worker, or on some other ranch that might fit that role pretty well.
So part of it is experience: are they qualified, do they really know what they’re doing? Can they see body condition and know if cows are gaining weight or losing weight? Do they know how to do some basic mechanical things? Can they ride a horse? Are they handy? You know, there’s that element; and then I mean we work for guys that have growth potential as well. I mean, I think as agriculture becomes a little more corporate (and certainly within our corporation), we need guys that can think through complex problems, and have analytical skills, and can work within a corporate structure. I think a college degree becomes more important as you move past a cowboy level employee, to a foreman level employee, or to a manager level –
RW: Um-hmm.
[19:01]
MM: Then level of education becomes more and more important. So a certain number of the people we hire, a college degree is important to us (not everybody that works here has to have one).
When we’re evaluating who we hire for a position, certainly, “Do they have a degree? Have they invested that in themselves, to where they have some analytical skills, and invested in” – you know, college is an important criteria that we consider.
RW: Looking back with the folks you’ve worked with over the years, are many of them, like yourself, coming from ranch backgrounds (or agriculture backgrounds)? Is it moving to change that it’s getting less and less, or it’s staying about the same?
MM: I would say that most are still coming from some agricultural background. But that said, there are more – probably an increasing number (albeit not a huge amount) that are Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 11
coming from other fields. And I think that’s a function of our society: there’s just less rural people and rural jobs out there, and so in order to fill positions, you’ve got to be willing to look at other guys.
RW: Sure.
MM: And then put them in a training program to where they can be successful. But you know, given the opportunity to hire somebody that’s got a good background, and a solid –
RW: Sure.
MM: You know, some real solid experience, as opposed to somebody that doesn’t; that other somebody’s got to have something they bring to the table, and be willing to learn.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: And show some progress. But I think – yeah, I think as agriculture becomes – well as our population becomes less and less rural, we (in agriculture) are going to have to figure out how to help people make those steps.
RW: Give them training models.
MM: And learn, you know.
RW: Um-hmm.
[21:03]
MM: And be willing to accept them, too; I mean we all start out at the same place. Some of us get to start there when we’re young, on our dad’s place, and some of us start there when we’re 20 years old, or 21 years old, during college. But we all start at the same place; the question is how do you help somebody get beyond an entry-level knowledge.
RW: For your corporation, what are the day-in, day-out responsibilities for some of these different positions: like a cowboy?
MM: Cowboy?
RW: What would be a day-in, day-out – and I know there’s a cycle, so I mean –
MM: Right.
RW: In June it’s going to be a little different than in January.
MM: So all of our cowboys have a stewardship over some cattle. Some of them have cattle and irrigation, some of them have cattle and a range-type situation. So they would then make sure that the cattle have water, they’re on feed that the pasture rotations are happening on time – so there’s a certain amount of moving cattle. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 12
RW: Now is that –
MM: Go ahead.
RW: Is that implemented by the corporation – the rotation? I mean, that’s a big thing in this world today.
MM: Right. I would say the principles are implemented by the corporation, and then as it goes down, the details become more a decision of each individual cowboy.
RW: And that’s where that stewardship comes in?
MM: Right. So for example, on this specific ranch every year we sit down as a ranch staff and we have involvement from our wildlife personnel, as well as all the cattle people, and we say, “Here’s a grazing plan.” And some of the principles that we have is that we’re going to rotational graze, we’re going to basically graze our range pastures no more than once a year, we’re going to defer grazing on some of those every year, so that they have a full year to ferment.
We have some historical data that helps us understand how much feed is going to be available in that pasture. And so we’ll say, “Okay, this herd is going to move, basically through these pastures during these months, and these pastures during these months. And then this is where we’re going to end up.” And that’s kind of a ranch-level decision. Now, how an individual employee might implement that becomes a little more day-to-day. I mean, I need him to look at it and say, “I’m running out of feed here, I need to move,” or “These conditions have changed, I need to adjust that a little bit. You know, they trickle down to his level of decision-making. And, there’s never a year that goes by that the plan that we write out in January is going to be –
[23:52]
RW: Sure.
MM: Going to fit by the time we get to September, and so we have to re-plan, and re-think. But, I rely a lot on these guys that are – I’m going to say, “cowboy-level” employees to read what’s going on. You know, how has the rainfall pattern gone? Do we have the amount of feed we expected to have in this pasture, are we moving through quicker? How are we going to adjust? So they have a lot of personnel they have a lot of responsibility and autonomy in how they implement that plan.
Now in Nebraska, we were a little more geographically differentiated; and so a cowboy might make a little more – I mean, he would have a little more input up front as to exactly how he was going to do that by himself.
RW: I see; because you’re so close in here, with all the different?
MM: Yeah, because there you kind of had a herd, and a set of pastures that were unique to that herd. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 13
RW: I see.
MM: Here we might have three or four different herds, but they might – we can’t necessarily say; they border, and they overlap a little bit.
RW: Uh-huh?
MM: In terms of which pastures can go to which herd.
RW: Sure, um-hmm.
MM: And how we adjust from one year. So it’s a little less defined.
RW: Right.
MM: And maybe there’s a little less autonomy, in terms of how you actually plan that out, at a cowboy-level position. But how you implement it is no different than somebody –
RW: Sure.
MM: At another location; I mean, you still have to go out and read, “My cows gaining weight, or are they losing weight? Are they out of feed, or can they stay here? And if I need to move them, can I just move them by myself, or do I need do I need to get some help?” You know, it’s a function of what kind of pasture they’re in, and where you’re trying to move them to.
RW: Um-hmm. I’ve just got so many questions popping in my head.
MM: No, that’s fine.
RW: And you’re still in middle of your story –
MM: No, that’s fine.
RW: I haven’t even got you back here from Florida (which we will in a minute). But a couple of things – on most big ranches I’ve been hearing there’s a manager –
MM: Uh-huh.
RW: There’s cowboys, there’s wildlife specialists, there can be so many different people (sometimes a person might be wearing more than one hat). How does that play out here?
MM: Here? So, here we have – I’m the general manager; I’ve got the people that report to me, and I have two cattle foremen: I’ve got a cattle foreman that stays primarily at Promontory (manages that situation in the winter), in then helps here during the summer time. I have a cattle foreman that stays here year-round, and so he is in charge of the crews, and day-to-day events here. And then I have a wildlife manager that oversees the wildlife program. And I have some finance staff, you know, Kay (the secretary) – Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 14
RW: Um-hmm.
[26:48]
MM: And office manager, and then I have a controller that manages the finances for the ranch. So those are the people that work directly with me.
RW: Does the wildlife manager do both the one here, and over in Promontory?
MM: Yeah, he has got responsibility over here, and then ranches and Montana and Wyoming as well; so pretty wide. So, there’s a lot of interfacing that goes together, but we kind of line out, “Well, this is what our wildlife program is, and these are our cattle programs.” And we try and think integratedly, you know –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Have an integrated thought process as we do that; we don’t want to make decisions for cattle in a bubble, without regard to what’s going to happen from a wildlife perspective.
RW: Sure.
MM: And I think we understand really well (as a company) that in today’s world, you’ve got to capitalize on the resources on the ranch; and one of those resources is wildlife. You know, there’s cattle grazing (that’s one resource), but there’s a multitude of other resource.
RW: Sure.
MM: And as you capitalize on more and more of those resources, the income potential of the ranch goes up. And as you buy a place (at this point in time), the market’s accounting for all those other resources as well.
RW: Sure, um-hmm.
MM: And so if you don’t look at that, you’re not maximizing your return on the investment.
RW: Is the wildlife manager also managing grasses and waters? Or who is managing those kinds of resources?
MM: He certainly has a role in that; I think we all kind of do. He leads up our monitoring efforts; he’s been kind of the primary guy with the BLM recently – and that’s, in part because of his history with the ranch, and his association –
RW: So he’s the liaison with –
MM: Yeah.
RW: With your range-con? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 15
MM: Yeah. I don’t know that it necessarily has to be the wildlife guy that does that, but in our situation I think that’s been the best scenario. I mean in terms of the monitoring; but we have an individual that does a lot of our range improvements (if we do a re-seeding, or something like that), and he would work together with the cattle manager, and the wildlife manager (in terms of like the species mix, and where we would do it) –
[29:18]
There’s a lot of days that we get in a room together and say, “This is the project we want to do. What are our goals?”
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: “How do we best achieve those goals?” You know, and there’s a little conflict, that’s okay. You know, I think as long as we’re not contentious, we can disagree, and work through problems, and try and find the best possible solutions. So there’s a lot of planning that goes in before we ever –
RW: Before implementation.
MM: Before we ever go implement something, and it has to fit for everybody.
RW: Well this place has been a ranch for a long time, with a lot of different owners, and different kinds of things (I’ve heard) over the years: there have been youth groups, and there have been just a variety – I think hunting groups –
MM: Um-hmm.
RW: So how does that play out today? Is it mainly a cow-calf operation, or are there some of those other value-added activities?
MM: I would say if you ask “what’s our primary enterprise,” it’s still a cattle ranch. That said we recognize that wildlife plays a very important role in our ability to reach our income goals. So wildlife doesn’t necessarily play second fiddle to cattle – I mean, we look at those two together. And then our owners ask us to participate in the trek programs of the church [Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints]. And so we currently have about 8,000 trek participants that visit the ranch every year, and participate in handcart treks.
And that program has evolved over time; when it first started, there were very few treks – we let them have a lot of autonomy as to where they went on the ranch. And we had a graduate student from BYU that kind of headed that up, and returned several summers to kind of be the guide for them. And I manage that; as that program’s grown, we’ve had to standardize it a lot more, and contain it somewhat, so it doesn’t become the ranch [laughs], the only thing we can do here.
[31:35] Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 16
And so now, basically we handle four different groups at any given time during the summer. And we have basically four routes that they can take, and they can modify those to a great degree: they can take a short-cut here, or the long way around here (where they camp in different places, and can have a fairly unique experience). But they’re all on one of those four major routes that start and end at the same place, to where you know, it’s a lot more manageable.
RW: Um-hmm. Is there someone managing that – managing logistics?
MM: Yeah I mean, it comes back to me as the ranch manager, but I work with a group of church service volunteers that really do the day-to-day management of that. And then I just work with them on the plan of what resources they need. And they take care of scheduling all the supports: meeting with the trek participants, and outlining their plan, etc.
So, hold on just a second –
[Stop and start recording]
Can you hear what’s on the machine?
RW: Oh, yeah – there we go. Okay, just a little –
MM: So we were talking about treks, right?
RW: Right; so I’m just curious – are there food services people? How does that all work?
MM: That all is the responsibility of the stakes.
RW: The stakes?
MM: For their groups, themselves.
RW: Um-hmm. So you provide the place, --
MM: We provide the place, the handcarts, the routes.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Training; but the groups that actually come here provide, you know, their own meals.
RW: Sure.
MM: That kind of stuff.
RW: Okay. Do you have hunting groups as well, coming up – with the wildlife? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 17
MM: Right; what we’ve done this last year, is we’ve leased the ranch out to several groups of individuals that hunt on the ranch. We manage how many animals they can take, what’s the quality of animals we want them to take, you know; we’re part of the CWMU –
RW: What does that stand for?
[33:41]
MM: Which is Coordinated Wildlife Management Unit.
RW: Got you.
MM: Which is – basically, Utah is programmed for working with private land owners.
RW: Okay.
MM: And in doing that, what happens is they get a certain split of the tags. So the public – there’s a public draw for a certain number of our hunts, and then there’s a certain number that we can market through –
RW: I see.
MM: Our system.
RW: I see.
MM: That way there is some public access to the ranch.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: As well as some private hunts that are sold. And so we basically lease the land out and those tags out to individuals; and then part of that lease is they have to provide those hunting opportunities for the public as well.
RW: Right; so the public access is monitored through an organization – whether it be the LDS church coming in with youth groups or a group that you’re leasing land to? Because there is open access on some ranches: I interviewed one rancher.
MM: Yeah.
RW: So that would be –
MM: Anybody that comes here is monitored –
RW: Right.
MM: Somewhat.
RW: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 18
MM: Yeah, we really don’t have any free public –
RW: Sure.
MM: Access to the ranch.
RW: Well let’s get you back – we’re in Florida.
MM: So we’re in Texas, and we’re headed to Florida.
RW: Yes.
MM: So I was in Texas for two years, and that was from 2004 to 2006. And then there was a change in management in Florida, and so I was asked to go there. And while I was there, I managed their heifer development enterprise, as well as their genetic – their bull production.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Pure bred herds. So I worked there for four years.
RW: Are the different ranches doing different types of cattle, dependent on the places?
MM: That’s one of the things that we’ve changed recently, is we’ve tried to get more on the same page.
RW: Um-hmm.
[35:36]
MM: Now obviously in Florida you have Brahman in your cattle, and a different type of animal than you’d have here, but we’ve tried to unify our selection criteria; try and align our genetic programs to more closely match.
RW: Um-hmm. That’s one of the things that I’ve found the most fascinating during all these interviews: the different, very closely – scientific almost – approach that many different ranchers have [to cattle production] (and they’re not all similar), but –
MM: They’ll have the reason, huh?
RW: Yeah, it’s fascinating.
MM: Yeah.
RW: And I’m curious about what you guys are doing.
MM: Right, well basically we wanted to get on the same page in terms of what we wanted, and in terms of an end product. And so – I mean, we try and take a scientific approach to it, but I guess the way we look at it is, our goals are: number one, we want to be efficient, Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 19
and number two, we want to provide a product that’s desirable to the end user, you know, the consumer of beef.
And so part of our focus is marbling and tenderness, which are the eating quality traits that I think we can control; and then some of it is more efficiency based. And so basically, over the last five years we’ve tried to develop selection indexes, and utilize genetic tools that are out there, to arrive at those two things.
And so Florida has their own – they basically use what’s called a three-breed rotation, where they use Brangus, Simbrah, and then a composite that’s made up of South Devon, Red Poll, and Brahma cattle; they’re all a quarter, to three-eighths Brahman (each one of those different breeds). And then they just rotate through them. And that manages cross-breeding and provides hypered vigor, and creates an efficient situation, you know, a lot of efficiency while still ended up at something that is desirable. And we’re trying to work to make it even more desirable and better.
RW: Right. You’re trying to market a good beef –
MM: Good beef.
RW: But you’ve got to have a good mother.
MM: Exactly. So we’re trying to do both.
RW: Right.
MM: And then here (in our more northern or western climates) we’re doing a lot of the same things, only instead of using rotational breeding, we try to put them into a composite: less the Brahman, we’re still using essentially Angus, Semintol and the South Devon. And then our selection criteria is very similar to what we were doing in Florida, to where you have good cow efficient growth, and then comparable eating experience –
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: Or eating quality, at the other end.
[38:41]
RW: Well when you’re moving folks around (if you’re in one area with certain cattle that have certain characteristics, and then you to move another area) what’s the uptake and the learning curve?
MM: [Laughs] You know, it probably depends a little bit, which location you’re changing to and from. But, I don’t think any time you move to a new ranch, until you’ve been there for a cycle and seen a year, do you really – I don’t think you have a very good grasp until you’ve been at a place a year; that’s my perspective.
RW: Um-hmm. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 20
MM: Having moved a lot.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: And certainly you don’t really understand the situation until you’ve been there multiple years, and seen it in a couple of different growing seasons (because Mother Nature is going to throw you a different curve every year).
RW: Lot’s of variables.
MM: Yeah, I mean I think if you have some good, foundational principles you don’t necessarily get in a lot of trouble that first year you’re at a new place.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: The principles of grass production, and range, and cattle production don’t change from one location to the next, but the application of those principles changes dramatically –
RW: Right.
MM: When you move; and so you’ve got to go through a growing season while you’re figuring exactly how much should you supplement with, and of course there are programs that help us figure that out.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: They carry from one employee to the next –
RW: Right; well that’s what I was going to ask you because there are principles that you learn that old folks might call the “book learning,” and then there’s the “people learning.” And I guess those two have to mesh.
MM: It’s a blend of art and science.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: The science is what you take with you wherever you go; the art is how you actually implement it when you get there.
RW: Sure.
MM: And that’s unique to every individual.
RW: Sure.
MM: So we basically try to have programs so that, you know, nobody can get too far out of the lines and get into a wreck, or you know, then not everybody has to figure out the wheel –
[40:56] Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 21
RW: Right.
MM: Every time. But I mean, we also want people to have autonomy, and it’s not like we work in a laboratory, or a factory where we control all the environments, so we need people to have the latitude to –
RW: Right.
MM: To change according to the situation (which means you’ve got to give people enough freedom to do one, without getting in trouble or having to re-invent the wheel).
RW: Sure.
MM: There’s always room for the art in our business.
RW: And with this business, having an element of risk, or danger –
MM: Sure.
RW: That’s got to play into it as well.
MM: Yeah, it does.
RW: To have that autonomy –
MM: Yeah.
RW: To think on your feet.
MM: Absolutely, you’ve got to think on your feet. And I think that’s with regard to risk, I mean that’s just part – when you get in our business, you are going to accept that you know, there’s a certain number of risks: there’s weather risks, there’s financial (the market risk). And then when it comes to employees there’s risks that they incur when they go out to the job. And so you try and manage every one of those risks; as a manager, you try and think through, “How do I mitigate market risk? How do I mitigate environmental or weather risk? And how do I help keep employees safe and productive?” And, what are the programs you put into place to manage all of that?
RW: Sure. Well can we talk a little bit about the day-in, day-out? We were talking a little bit about that before; like so much of what a ranch manager (or a cowboy) is doing can be on horseback –
[42:44]
MM: Um-hmm.
RW: But a lot of people are using four-wheelers today.
MM: Right. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 22
RW: And some of the people I interviewed in the very, very beginning were finishing out – had been ranch kids themselves. One woman cooked for a big hay crew, others came up on the swather. But we don’t have that so much anymore, because we have machinery.
MM: Right.
RW: We’ve got the four-wheeler today, and we’ve got the cell phone. So how has things in the business end of it changed because of all of this mechanization?
MM: So let me make sure I understand you – so are you asking about the day-to-day of the cowboys, or more –
RW: Yeah, the day-to-day, like you know, are cowboys more on a four-wheeler today than on a horse?
MM: I would say probably still not (in our situation). The ranch here, in Utah – so much of it is sage brush, you know, lots of topographical change, and we have some country that’s very, very steep (our mountain-type country), very inaccessible on a four-wheeler. Even some of our more foothills country that’s sage brush, you know, you still need a horse to move through it, be efficient, herd cattle in it.
Now on some of our irrigated ground (which is more meadows and fields, and that), we tend to use four-wheelers a fair amount. And it depends a little bit on the job that you’re doing –
RW: Right.
MM: If I have an employee that’s irrigating his pasture, and he’s got to move cows from one of those irrigated pastures to another, while he’s down there on the four-wheeler it’s real easy to change his water, buzz over to where the cattle are at, open the gate, run around them, and push them through; the four-wheeler is a very good tool for that, and it’s way more efficient than trying to get a horse down there. And, in some cases, where it’s boggy, the four-wheeler actually gets around better than the horse; whereas, if we’re out in a range setting, most all of those moves are done by horseback.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: It’s just a function. And even when you’re on irrigated land, if you’re moving cattle and you need to doctor something, or need you know, you’re going to have to get to a horse to go do that. So those guys do spend a fair amount of time horseback as well.
[45:14]
RW: The equipment – which one of the pieces of equipment of a rancher, or a cowboy is a horse – are they supplied by the ranch? Are they bringing their own saddle? Horse? Horses? Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 23
MM: So all of our guys have their own tack – that’s one thing that we do push to the cowboys, to bring their own saddle, bridle. We help supply some money to put towards that (we kind of have a fixed tack allowance that we provide employees), but they own their own tack. With horses we can go either way; my personal feeling is that most cowboys like to have their own horse, and take some pride in their own horse. And most of them want to own some horses, and so most of our employees here provide at least some of their own horses. And then we have some ranch horses that are available to fill in the gaps. But my preference would be that they own their own horse – and that’s not just so that we don’t have to put out the expense of owning them, but the interest level of the cowboy in his own horses is higher, which means it’s probably going to be better trained, it’s going to know that guy, he’s going to be ridden by the same guy all the time, and probably reduce his accidents, and guys seem to be more fulfilled when they’re riding horses that, probably, better fit them as individuals.
RW: Sure, right.
MM: So we go both ways on the horses; we own some (the ranch owns some), but most – well, all my full-time employees own horses (all my full-time employees that are actively in the cattle) own their own horses.
RW: Um-hmm. With horses come all kinds of different unique things: along with the tack, there’s the shoeing, and there is –
MM: We provide a lot of that.
RW: A lot of the shoeing, and vets – as well as for the cows, but also –
[47:25]
MM: Right. So we provide shoeing, we provide veterinary care (up to a certain point); if a cowboy owns his own horse, he’s going to still stand the risk of that horse, at some level, and we’ve kind of got a horse policy that designates that. If a cowboy owns their own horse, and they get kicked, or cut in the corral, and they need a vet to come attend to it, we would do that; but if a cowboy lost a horse, we wouldn’t necessarily go replace it for him.
RW: Sure. So with the veterinarian, is there somebody you contract out?
MM: Yes.
RW: Or do you have someone on staff?
MM: All of our ranches contract out with local veterinarians.
RW: Um-hmm. Well, I’m going to step back, and I keep interrupting –
MM: No, you’re fine. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 24
RW: Because something comes to my mind. So you’re in Florida now?
MM: So I was in Florida; I was in Florida for four years.
RW: And what was your position there?
MM: I was a cattle manager; I was over what they called the “development herds,” which was their heifer development (so yearling heifers, two-year old heifers), and then their seed stock herd that they raise bulls out of. So I had the genetic program for the ranch. So that was my job.
That environment was much more of – well, there was very little native pasture; most of the pastures down there were cultivated or improved grasses. And so a big pasture down there was 300-500 acres; you know, here it is 5,000 or 10,000 acres. So a lot more intensive in its management in terms of what we did for cattle, and grass, both.
RW: Do you have similar kinds of set-ups, where you’ve got feedyards, and grazing, and moving cattle to – I mean you don’t have temperature changes –
MM: Right.
RW: So you may not have to move first-year heifer somewhere else.
[49:23]
MM: In Florida, the ranch was broken up into 13 different units; so in a way, it was a collection of 13 mini-ranches, you might say. And each one of those units had a foreman, and a couple of cowboys that worked for him, and a set of equipment: pick-up, tractors, horse barn. So they were kind of geographically spread out across the ranch.
And then my role, as the cattle development manager, we raised the yearling, and two-year old heifers, and then we’d go out to those other units, and provide them replacement cattle. And then as they culled, or had older cattle fall out, then they’d sell them, and we’d continuously provide them with – so there was kind of a flow. But each one of those units was unique in its own way, but it was part of this bigger system.
RW: Sure.
MM: Is that kind of going down the right road?
RW: Yeah, yeah. I’m kind of getting to the end of – I don’t want to take up your day I know you’ve a got lots going on.
MM: Oh, that’s fine.
RW: But I have a few questions before we get back out here. With operations in Florida, and Texas, and other places that you’ve been – it all feeds into a major corporation, and so is Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 25
there a person that is over every single thing that feeds down? And where is that person located?
MM: Yeah, we have – our corporate offices are in Salt Lake.
RW: Okay.
MM: And we have a company president that’s there.
RW: And then there will be folks like yourself, that are managing an area –
MM: Right.
RW: That reports back to the corporate?
MM: Right; we have a company president that’s in Salt Lake, and then the vice president that’s over cattle enterprises is currently the guy that’s the general manager in Florida.
RW: I see.
[51:35]
MM: So I actually report to somebody in Florida, and then he reports to them.
RW: I see, okay.
MM: But yeah, there’s a corporate office.
RW: Uh-huh. With some of the principles of business management [that] are applied across the board, but there’s some things that have to be massaged in various areas, because of different terrain, different cattle they’ll be raising?
MM: Right
RW: And the culture, and so forth. Are you doing things similarly with the selling?
MM: Yeah, there’s a concerted effort, in terms of marketing; and that’s changing a little. (I probably don’t want to go into all the specifics of that.)
RW: Sure.
MM: But our cattle are sold in the open market. As an investment business –
RW: Uh-huh.
MM: For the church, our cattle are all marketed through the open market; but there’s a concerted effort to market those (so that it’s not just me selling my cattle from here). Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 26
RW: Right, a grouping. And so, you know, like a lot of folks (I’ve been hearing) when there’s still little groups that still might take their cattle to an auction, or they have somebody that they work with year, after year, after year. But most folks are selling through video auction, or something on a bigger scale; is that something we’re talking about here or something more on a bigger scale than that?
MM: Yeah, I mean we’re basically channeling all our cattle to the same location.
RW: Got you.
MM: Feeding them similarly.
RW: Got you. So with these different feedyards (like the one in Corinne), are there many throughout?
MM: Yeah.
RW: That the corporation owns and manages?
MM: Right. The feedyard in Corinne is actually not owned by us, we use a contractor there –
RW: I see.
[53:35]
MM: So every location – I mean, you have the ranch, but then you’re going to need to rely on other people –
RW: Sure, yeah.
MM: To provide support that you don’t necessarily have; and so that’s what we have there.
RW: Got you.
MM: Is we have a need for a cheap way to manage some of those smaller cattle –
RW: Um-hmm?
MM: That probably need a few more resources than what we can supply at Promontory, on more of an extensive grazing situation.
RW: I see.
MM: And so we utilize a contractor there. And every ranch, I think, has somebody kind of like that.
RW: Uh-huh. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 27
MM: Close to them, where you know, if they need to feed some bulls, or if they need to do something, then you can do that more efficiently in like a grower-type yard, or something like that.
RW: Right. So local vendors, like the veterinarian, or feedyards – are those various things that the corporation moves out to?
MM: Right.
RW: I see, okay. Well, did you come from Florida, back to ranch here?
MM: So a year and a half ago I came back here. And then my job here is I’m over this ranch, and then I have some responsibility over our ranches in Wyoming and Montana, as well.
RW: I see. What’s your favorite part of this whole, big [operation]?
MM: You know – the whole thing? [Laughs]
RW: The whole – the gestalt of the whole thing – what’s your favorite?
MM: Well, you know, it’s probably changed some. I knew I loved agriculture – I have all along; and I think as you move through your career, you’re trying to figure out: “Well what do I need to do to provide for my family?” And I mean, I love the cattle industry, and I love range, and agriculture, you know, in general; I love this ranch.
You know, of all the ranches I’ve been on, I like this production system, I like the involvement in range, and wildlife, and the interactions of all that together. I like our system here; I like that it’s very range-based, and multiple-enterprises, and multiple-uses, and things like that, and it’s close to home.
[55:55]
But, I look at my job today, and it’s a lot about people, and it’s a lot about finances, and it’s not much about getting on a horse anymore, but it’s still a part of it. And so, I like the diversity of it; the ties to the land, and cattle, and growing, and being able to see what you accomplished within a year.
RW: Um-hmm.
MM: So I guess there’s a lot of values, and benefits to what I do, and I like it.
RW: How does that work with a family? Are your children involved with – do you feel like they are agricultural children?
MM: Yeah, I do; less so than if they were on a family operation, or what I grew up. But I guess the way I try to relate to our employees, and I guess the way I feel about it is, we are not a family corporation, but we are trying to be family-friendly. So we have to look out after Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 28
the interests of the ranch, as well as provide some opportunities for kids, and that kind of thing.
So I mean, safety comes first; we have to look at safety. And then we also have to obey the law; and there’s child labor laws that say we can do certain things, and we can’t do other things. And you know there is a minimum age that we can employee kids, and whatnot; and that might not be the case if we all owned our own family operation.
I think I’ve been lucky enough to have my kids with me in the truck, out on the ground; we’ve been able to get on the horse and go ride (it’s not every single day, you know); they’re not as big a part of it as I was growing up – but then they’ve had other interests too.
RW: Sure. Is your wife?
MM: My wife is from Olympia, Washington; grew up in an urban environment. She’s been a good trooper [laughs]; she’s followed me around. No, I think she’s always been somebody that’s been open. I mean, she grew up liking to camp, liking the outdoors – she wasn’t against an outdoor-type lifestyle, or spending time in the outdoors at all. And so I think she’s like it. I think there are times when she’s felt like we were very rural [laughs], you know. And there’s some hardship that ranch wives have, certainly. Certainly a lot of hardship that ranch wives have, in terms of getting kids to activities, and you know, if the bus doesn’t come to the front door, how do you deal with that situation?
RW: Um-hmm.
[58:48]
MM: But she’s been a big – been very supportive; and I think you need that.
RW: Yeah. I’ve just got two questions to finish up here. My first one: we talked a teeny bit about the culture: the culture maybe when you’re in Texas or Florida, or Nebraska, or here. I sometimes ask people in an occupation that you rely so much on someone else for your own personal safety, for the welfare of the whole operation: have you ever thought about some of the key characteristics that are running through the folks that you work with? I, myself, (huge outsider) but I’ve interviewed so many people, certain things just keep bubbling up: similar traits that I’ve noticed with cowboys and ranchers; and I wonder about you, if you’re seeing some similar characteristics?
MM: Sure; sure there are. You know, you’ve got to have people that are independent, willing to go work on their own; they need to be fairly assertive. And you know, if they don’t love being outside, and physical labor, they’re just in the wrong business (honestly); not that we can’t have all types, but if your goal is not to be outside, working with your hands in a fairly physical work environment, then it’s just probably not the best fit, right?
And then, I think a lot of times cowboys get labeled a little anti-social, and I don’t necessarily see that. I think some of our best cowboys are very, very social, and good Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 29
communicators, and coordinators, and things like that. And I think, as you work in a bigger system, you have to be more that.
RW: Sure.
[60:53]
MM: You know if you can’t work with other people you probably have to work on a small system, or you are the only person involved; but yeah, there’s certain common threads. I guess you work with guys that place value on what they get to do every day – more so than material wealth. I guess that’s a decision we all make. It’s not that you can’t make decent money in agriculture, but to some degree you’ve got have a trade-off of do you do this because you love it, and you enjoy it, and you want to do it day-to-day, or do you want to go make a lot of money in some other profession, and do it on the side? And you know, I think those of us that are in it day-to-day accept that you know, there probably are other professions that pay more, but do you choose that over doing what you enjoy doing?
RW: Sure.
MM: And so, I think that’s a common thread.
RW: Um-hmm. Well my last question to you is, what do you see the future of ranching?
MM: Oh, I think it’s bright. There’s interesting challenges, because you know, you can look at the glass half empty and say, “We have political issues, there’s environmental issues, there’s lots of changes.” You can look at it that way, or you can say, “Well there’s a lot of upside in this business, too.” I guess when I look at what’s going on world wide, you know, we’ve got a population of the world that is, number one, growing and they’re becoming more affluent. They’re going to want more meat, and milk, and protein, and a better quality diet than what they’ve had in the past.
And if you look at where in the world you can grow cattle: the soil types, the range environment, you know – not every country is going to feed itself. There’s going to be a lot of opportunity in the Pacific Rim, there’s going to be a lot of opportunity in India, and China. And, if we look outside our own borders, I think the upside potential for a market for our product is pretty good. We just have to figure out through some of the hard spots to do it.
[63:40]
One of the interesting things is, somebody read to me an agenda of a Utah Cattlemen’s meeting in the 1920s, and it was interesting because it was about the same topics, you know. Some of the things we think are going to put us out of business, have been existent for a long time. And, maybe that’s naïve, maybe they’ll put us out of business, but I think there’s a lot of potential. Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 30
As a father of a son that’s looking at agriculture I want him to look broadly at all the choices that are out there for careers, but I wouldn’t discourage him from getting into agriculture, because I think there’s a lot of upside.
RW: What’s your advice to your son? What career path – if that’s what he wants to be, what are some of the things you would encourage him to do to get there?
MM: My oldest son is a senior in high school, and trying to figure out what he wants to do. He likes to come work on the ranch, he likes the horses, the cows; he enjoys that. I’ve just encouraged him initially, as he goes into college, you know, cast his net wide at first, and figure out is this really what he wants? Is this what he’s really passionate about or not? I don’t see in him the same passion I had at his age, but they may not mean he shouldn’t do it. I think he’s maybe got a more broad interest than what I did, per se. But, if he wanted to go into agriculture, I would be fully supportive of it. I think he’s just got to try and figure out his path, what is important to him.
RW: Mike, I really appreciate so much you making the time for me – you’re so, so busy, I know that.
MM: [Laughs]
RW: I always ask people at the very end (I called and visited with you, sent you some questions) are there things as you were knowing I was coming) that you were thinking about, that you wanted to share, that I just haven’t asked you? That we haven’t had a chance to visit about?
[65:50]
MM: No, I don’t think so. I think, when I look at agriculture – or ranching more specifically – I think it’s a good life, but it’s something you have to choose (it’s not everybody’s goal). But, I think it’s a unique thing that can be a lot of fun; and if you want to bad enough, there’s a way you can make it work – almost anybody could make it work if they want to bad enough, and are willing to do what it takes, you know.
RW: Do you see the corporate ranch being a bigger player than individual family ranches in the future?
MM: Well yeah, I think that’s probably the way life’s going; I don’t know that that’s necessarily positive – I don’t think it’s necessarily negative either. I mean, if it wasn’t for a corporation like this, then I look at somebody in my situation, that grew up one of eight brothers, on a relatively small ranch, where was the opportunity there for me? And, I’m sure there’s ways that we could have expanded or grown, and taken on additional risk to make that happen if it was the ultimate goal.
But, this has certainly provided an opportunity for me to do what I want, and for everybody else that works here, you know, an opportunity. And so I don’t think it’s necessarily a negative thing. I think there’s a lot of good things from family-owned businesses, and I think that’s something that we need to protect, and foster in our society, Ranch Family Oral History Project: Mike Meek Page 31
as well. So I don’t necessarily think it should shift completely corporate (or vice versa), but I think having a mix is a good thing. So yeah, I think it’s going to become more corporate, just because I just think that’s the world is moving, and I don’t know that that is going to reverse.
RW: Well thank you so much; I really, really appreciate this.
MM: You’re welcome.
[End recording – 68:05]