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Rock, Paper, Sonic

Welcome to the official Sonic RPS thread! Here we discuss all things Sonic the Hedgehog instead of cluttering up the forum with other threads of the blue blur. This thread comes out on the precipice of the Steam release of Sonic CD (yay!) and Sonic 4 Episode 1 (yay?) and some time after Sonic Generations (hurray!). We might also discuss console toy Sonics.

If you don't know what Sonic the Hedgehog is, you may want to watch this:

For your enjoyment, here's some music to listen to while browsing the thread:

Now, to kickstart this off somehow, any thoughts on Sonic Riders - the PC port or in general? As I said in the previous topic, I might be able to get it for the One True Format for fairly cheap if it's still in the store, but from what little I've read about it on the net it'd seem that the PC port is... less than stellar, to put it kindly.

Frame of reference: Grew up playing PC only, so never had a single second of a sonic game.

My question is this, how come the last Sonic game that was released on PC (Generations I think?) was lauded as amazing and a return to all that is fun and awesome about sonic (tempting me to try it once it gets cheap) but this new one coming out (sonic 4) is already being heralded as the "next really bad thing" ?

What's the difference?

All times I have enjoyed greatly, have suffered greatly, both with those that loved me, and alone.

Mainly because the controlling in Sonic 4 is dreadful, making it really awkward to play (and its direct referencing of the old 2D games doesn't make for the best comparison for many considering its wonkiness). Generations on the other hand is pretty much excellently done all-around (including fixing what Sonic 4 went wrong with in the 2D stages), caters to pretty much every Sonic fan in some degree so no one is left unhappy and is served with a massive platter of feel-good nostalgia and celebration on top of it.

Basically, Sonic 4 took a really big wrong step. Sonic Generations took all the right steps from the entire history of the series (except when it comes to the final boss).

My question is this, how come the last Sonic game that was released on PC (Generations I think?) was lauded as amazing and a return to all that is fun and awesome about sonic (tempting me to try it once it gets cheap) but this new one coming out (sonic 4) is already being heralded as the "next really bad thing" ?

What's the difference?

The detailed answer is what Flint said. The short answer is that Sonic 4 (Episode 1) came out before Generations on the consoles, which is part of what made Generations such a relief.

However it has been updated, so there's no real telling if, at all, the PC version will be different to the console version in any meaningful way.

Also, you can now try the demo for Sonic Generations. It was added to Steam some time last night and, from what I've heard, includes both acts of Green Hill Zone. Bare in mind that it is GHZ, so it's not too difficult. Modern certainly gets more complex, it is very much a tutorial level until you get to grips with both Sonics and can start finding the speedy/difficult routes. If you're able to in the demo, turn off Omachao in the options. Also, if you have a controller, use it.

/shamless plug start As I said in the previous thread, Generations being a great game is also a PC game of their great Hedgehog engine. While it's not really a great modding platform, the files are easily edittable, and even human readable! The modding tools so far aren't much around given that we're barely on the 3rd month since the release of the game, but most files can be unpacked/repacked already.

Also, as interesting projects, I'm developing http://code.google.com/p/sonic-glvl/ SonicGLvl for editting object layouts. My other side project is porting the Sonic Unleashed(XBox 360, PS3) daytime levels(which were the "good half" of the game), to the PC version of Sonic Generations. This should allow a proper port of the game using 60 FPS and 1080p.

I think it's worth noting that the sales of Generations on Steam must've been a considerable chunk for Sega to consider the PC as an important platform in the future. Being $30 at launch, and it was a top seller during the $10 sale.

Right, they've clearly adopted that philosophy for Sonic 4, given that it was a safe bet CD would eventually end up on the PC as it's on pretty much everything else too (apart from Ninty products, strangely). Here's hoping that whatever else they come out with from here on out both maintains quality and is available on multiple systems, something the rumoured 'Sonic Dimensions' is likely to be for at least the WiiU and the PC, if the WiiU is demonstrably more powerful than the PS360 with only the PC able to also run it. (Although, I'd say it was a good bet that they'd use the Hedgehog engine rather than the proprietary one they used for Colours, so that's probably as good a bet as any it'd be multi-platform.)

as it's on pretty much everything else too (apart from Ninty products, strangely).

I just noticed that the other day, that Sonic 4-2 isn't coming to Wii. I hope that if they learned from the mistakes of 4-1 and make 4-2 a good game, that it makes it to PC. Slight tangent: Sonic Colors, any good?

People have been saying it's very good and something that even those who disliked modern Sonic games could find themselves enjoying.

Sonic Team basically found this sudden new stash of inspiration starting from Unleashed (werehog levels arguable but the daytime levels are loved by most and set the template for following games), continuing with Colours and now really showing it with Generations. IIRC one of the lead game designers switched before Unleashed, which probably contributed a lot.

Well 4-2 has "a new graphics and physics" engine. It would be incredibly odd if they used the Retro engine powering the rerelease of Sonic CD, but...I just don't know.

As for Colours, it's a great title. It's purely Modern Sonic, has a good amount of content, great sound track, polished visuals even for a Wii title and for a lot of people just edges out Generations as the best 3D Sonic title. If you've played [minor level spoiler from Generations]Planet Wisp[/spoiler], it's not a 'good' representation of the levels. My advice would be to look at some gameplay vids:

EDIT: To follow up what other people have said, it's part of the growing quality in the series. If you've played Unleashed's day stages, it's a game of all that. There's a good enough amount of evidence to support the idea that Colours cashed-in on the Wii's good sales for Sonic titles (Secret Rings prior wasn't that bad after you unlocked controls. Sigh.) and was very much their iteration of Generations. You can even see it with the same models/textures being used for enemies in Generations.
You can unlock 'simulation stages' too. Some of them use exact lay-outs from previous Sonic titles, as well as using 8-bit sound-tracks for them too!

So back at the other Sonic thread at the general forum, you people've been listing Sonic games that haven't been ported to PC, and you listed specifically Heroes, 2006 and Unleashed, which brings me to the question:

Right, they've clearly adopted that philosophy for Sonic 4, given that it was a safe bet CD would eventually end up on the PC as it's on pretty much everything else too (apart from Ninty products, strangely)

It's not so strange that they aren't bothering releasing it on the Wii.

Nintendo has a completely draconian and awful approach to the downloadable games portion of its service, which is why pretty much every publisher has completely left it at this point. Its a completely barren wasteland on the service and it was that way long before the WiiU was announced.

I wouldn't ever expect to see Sonic CD or any downloadable future Sonic game on the service. It seems like they just used those resources to go into PC distribution instead, which is a better avenue for them imo.