So itâ€™s that time of year again, when the holidays are upon us and those who are single often feel lonely, and left out.

Essence Magazine dating columnist, Demetria Lucas had a good article, “Single for the Holidays?” on this very subject via Essence.com offering some constructive ways in which we can cope with the loneliness and serve others during the Christmas Holidays. Yet, I want to take this discussion a step further. The holiday blues are just a symptom of a much deeper and disturbing trend particularly as it pertains to black love and relationships: Too many well educated, loving, kind, beautiful, god-fearing, sexy, successful sisters, without the baggage of past marriages or kids are still going it alone around the Holidays and beyond. Too many black men treat black women like they are not to be valued. Are we to be toyed with, should we be happy to be part of a harem of other women, and then wait for black men to figure out when they are ready to date us exclusively? Sisters it is time for us to change the game!

What Sparked this Column:

I had a series of conversations on Thanksgiving eve with no less than ten of my girlfriends who are single black professional women, who are alone, and feel very depressed this Holiday. In that vein, I decided to share a recent experience I had with a long-time male friend, fine brother, never married, a tad younger, has a great career, and we travel in the same social and political circles. It reminded me of why I stopped dating black men seriously about 7 years ago.

To be direct this brother has toyed with me for years from a distance with his statements of adoration: â€œyou are my typeâ€, â€œI like youâ€, â€œI made mistakes in my pastâ€, â€œwish Iâ€™d had a chance with youâ€, â€œIâ€™d marry you in a minuteâ€, and â€œweâ€™d be good togetherâ€ rhetoric. He also knows that I have been romantically involved with a white man on and off for several years. And I think that the fear finally set in that I might marry this man, and he would lose me for good. Up steps brotha man to the rescue!

We spoke recently after I received an out of the blue text (operative phrase, he contacted me) and we got on the phone and had a really adult, meaningful, transformational conversation. I decided that maybe, I should listen to my dissenters, maybe I was supposed to be with a black man, particularly given my interest in the healing of black women & men in America. After all there is no ring on my finger. The brotherâ€™s family likes me and I them. All the pieces fit. Not to mention we would not have to deal with the extra burden of race and religion. Itâ€™s the age old dilemma: Go with the man you want, or with the man that you need, the man that you can build a life with, versus the one that makes your heart skip a beat. Not to mention this brother is physically attractive, so falling in love with him would not be a difficult leap.

Feeling social and familial pressure I agreed to talk several times a week (he lives in another state), study together, pray together and see where we ended up. But, as is true to form for many of our black men-they are not serious about dating and pursuing marriage. I opened myself to his proposition and he ran so far, so fast, it was sad. He started backtracking, he stopped calling, he got busy, and he got downright mean and rude. He even had the audacity to tell me he might want to date some other sisters so he could not be â€œexclusiveâ€ or tied down. Huh?? Really? (scratching my head). If it wasnâ€™t so damn sad it would be funny. But thank you Jesus, I dodged a bullet. Believe someone the first time they show you who they are!

Sisters hear me: Leave brothers like this alone. Men that can run cold like ice, flip on a dime mean you no good. They have no honor. These are the same men who tell sisters who they well know care for them, that they will sleep with you, but not date you. Itâ€™s called DTF, Friends with Benefits, Jump Offs. What in the world has happened to us???

Relationships Require Commitment

Yes, relationship looks good from afar, but when it is time to step up, some of you brothers run far and fast from commitment. You worry that you just might accept the good, when there is someone better to be had. As one sister friend said, â€œWe accept bad behavior and call it acceptable because dating now is so challenging. We put up with the unthinkable because we donâ€™t want to be alone.â€ And men know this so they take full advantage of the dating climate. Worse, in my opinion, many of our most eligible brothers (and by that I do not mean income or status) are still running around single well past age 35, keeping women in several cities, hanging with their frat brothers, catting around, texting, and breaking hearts instead of building a life, love, and wealth with a good woman who will stand by their side.

I am sorry brothers, I have checked myself and the sisters in my book, Black Woman RedefinedI invited you in, gave you your say, but someone has to say this out loud-it is time for you to cut the shit! Your â€˜playa playaâ€™ ways are embarrassing you, your race, and your family that raised you to be more. You are missing life. It is passing you by. You are empty, void and donâ€™t even see it. You have great role models like President Obama, Colin Powell, Will Smith, Rodney Pete, Bill Cosby, and Attorney General Eric Holder and more; you say you want to be like them but no you really donâ€™t. They figured it out early: A successful man has a good, successful, loving woman by his side, not ten â€˜hoâ€™s! He has one woman, for life, till death do they part. That is what life is about when all is said and done; not how many notches you have in your belt, or how many numbers you have in your I phone.

Ironically, I had lunch this afternoon with one of my long-time mentors, an older white man (Jewish) in his mid 60s. He marched during the Civil Rights Movement and he married someone outside of his race. He was lamenting to me how disappointed he is with what he sees in the black community. He said that the danger of what ails black America, has less to do with a wealth gap, and finances and more to do with the complete destruction of the black family, and too many black women are being left alone by black men to fend for themselves. He said someone has to get black men back on track and understanding the value of marriage. I could not agree more.

My Journey with a Rainbeau Man

To be candid, I have been wrestling a lot lately over my love interest because he is a white man. And his career is not exactly great for spending quality time together. I suspect all sisters deal with this when dating and marrying a man outside the race. For the record-I do not care about his race. But America still does, families still do, social groups, and workplaces still do. And that is a reality any inter-racial couple has to confront and decide how to handle.

But, letâ€™s have some grown folks talk can we?

White men, who date black women, particularly as they are just starting out in their lives or in their careers, can face career limitations, family scorn and worse. I have heard the stories from friends who have gone that way, and I have seen the struggles these couples have in my own family. Black and white cultures are vastly different. And while we know most people marry people who look like them, are educated like them, who are socialized like them, interracial dating is becoming more en- vogue. Yet, every sisterâ€™s deepest fear is that a white man only wants her so he can to â€œtry it outâ€-or so she can be his â€œchocolate fantasyâ€, and then drop her when it is time to get married or take her home to his family. This is real and it is what keeps most sisters away from white men.

I can tell you unequivocally, however, that my â€œwhite boyâ€ has never made me feel anything but valued. He may not travel in my world, nor I in his. He may not have my same level of education or achievement, but he is a success. He may not be what I imagined growing up as my Knight in Shining Armor, but I feel safe when I am with him. I can write him love letters and talk to him for hours. He has never ever told me he wants anyone but me. Weâ€™ve been through a lot together, and I feel like he is home for me. Shame on me for being willing to throw that away for someone safe and more socially acceptable! Lesson learned. God tapped me on the shoulder and snapped me out of my stupidity.

Here is my point sisters: The time has come for us to open our hearts to love wherever we may find it. The man that finds a wife finds a good thing. Stop letting myths and stereotypes keep you from valuing yourselves and more importantly keep you wedded to putting up with bad behavior from men who donâ€™t want you for real. Yes, marriage is for black people too. 92% of black men, who get married, marry black women. 96% of black women, who marry, marry black men. Yes, there are good black men! The problem is that most of those men are already taken by the time they are in their late 30s and 40s (even in the 20s).

So sisters at the end of the day let me say this: It is okay to want love. It is okay to get lonely. You are human, you need touch, you need partnership, you need support, and you need a protector, helper, and lover. Period. I am tired of folks always telling us to do without, put up with nonsense, â€œwork with himâ€, or worse. Brothers, many of you will not like this article, but if you are honest you all know men who fit exactly what I am saying. Wonder why sisters are mean, donâ€™t smile, seem walled off, cold, arenâ€™t as â€œfun & openâ€ as white women? Because black men who they once loved and trusted violated that trust, treated them with contempt (with a smile), played with them, strung them along and made them feel less than. None of this is helping our families, or our communities to do better. Sisters, you have options. Itâ€™s time for you to change the game and redefine the rules of love so that you can win.

Can you imagine the toll these kinds of experiences can take on a person? The instability in that kind of relationship can be stressful and could lead to serious health conditions. Maybe it isn’t just a question of “changing the game” but trying to have a healthier lifestyle. The wrong guy can literally make you sick.

This is a wonderful article, and full of a lot of truth. Though I did side eye the statistic a bit because it’s always trotted out, despite the fact that (1) it mentions ONLY people who marry (as opposed to those who date but don’t or co-habitate but don’t and (2) doesn’t really deal with *new* marriages, but no doubt includes the couples who have remained married.

Yes there are “good brothas” out there, but as she said, black women are better off weighing all their options and not sitting around waiting for one to magically appear. Life is too short to let it pass you by while putting up with a lot of nonsense. She definitely dodged a bullet with that one jerk, and it’s funny, because I remember reading a similar story from a poster elsewhere. As soon as the BW started showing actual interest, he flounced.

@Toni_M I guess this is a good time to let my cat out of the bag. I am very careful when it comes to black men. Not just in the intimate relationships but professional ones too. I don’t want to be a dumping ground for racial frustration. Its a challenge to navigate my way through this society as it is but some of these guys like to turn black women into venting stations. They cut you get in half, 1/2 black and 1/2 woman, and they use one or the other when its convenient.

At work a black man who barely says anything to me for weeks all of sudden needs to “holla” at me for a minute about the way people look at “us” and how they don’t really want “us” there. Then he goes off to lunch, mingle, and crack jokes with “our” enemies and I’m left holding this bag of crap he just dropped in my lap. Happens in relationships too. I’m only a woman again when a man who isn’t black compliments me on my work, outfit, hairstyle (that pic is old), or something. Then he materializes and needs to find something nice to say. When the other guy leaves, I’m black again and they’re just trying to figure “us” out. Last time that happened I told the guy that the white girl in sales thought he was hot. For weeks I got peace and quiet. She actually didn’t say anything about him though and its was funny as hell watching him trying to get it in. But this “us” thing happened so often that I had to find a decoy.

My point: I don’t want to be cut in half. I like being black but it had nothing to do with me. Its the other stuff that makes up my personality. A black guy might not care about those other things and might not see me as a woman. The Black Power Movement did the same thing on a larger scale and that’s why feminism was so upsetting to the leadership; Black Women became women with their permission.

AJ1997

@Toni_M

I guess this is a good time to let my cat out of the bag. I am very careful when it comes to black men. Not just in the intimate relationships but professional ones too. I don’t want to be a dumping ground for racial frustration. Its a challenge to navigate my way through this society as it is but some of these guys like to turn black women into venting stations. They cut you get in half, 1/2 black and 1/2 woman, and they use one or the other when its convenient.

At work a black man who barely says anything to me for weeks all of sudden needs to “holla” at me for a minute about the way people look at “us” and how they don’t really want “us” there. Then he goes off to lunch, mingle, and crack jokes with “our” enemies and I’m left holding this bag of crap he just dropped in my lap. Happens in relationships too. I’m only a woman again when a man who isn’t black compliments me on my work, outfit, hairstyle (that pic is old), or something. Then he materializes and needs to find something nice to say. When the other guy leaves, I’m black again and they’re just trying to figure “us” out. Last time that happened I told the guy that the white girl in sales thought he was hot. For weeks I got peace and quiet. She actually didn’t say anything about him though and its was funny as hell watching him trying to get it in. But this “us” thing happened so often that I had to find a decoy.

My point: I don’t want to be cut in half. I like being black but it had nothing to do with me. Its the other stuff that makes up my personality. A black guy might not care about those other things and might not see me as a woman. The Black Power Movement did the same thing on a larger scale and that’s why feminism was so upsetting to the leadership; Black Women became women without their permission.

QUESTION: “should we be happy to be part of a harem of other women, and then wait for black men to figure out when they are ready to date us exclusively?”

ANSWER: Yes & No.

Yes if we want to die.

No if we want to live.

Time to decide black women!

Karla

I’m putting this in my Christmas cards to my single, Black girlfriends instead of an “update” on how I’m doing. This is amazing.

SophiaAngeliNelson

@Karla Thank you Karla! Smiling.

glamdll

This is the very reason I stopped considering bm as candidates. They act like they are really shocked when you’re not interested in them. It’s as if they’re asking “Are you sure you want to miss out on all of this drama, igorance and “tomfoolery?”..you sure?” I have a “distant” friend that’s been hoping for a proposal/ring for almost 7 years. Every year around this time she’s pissed off because they’re not ring shopping. The last time we talked about interracial dating, she said she’d try it “if this doesn’t work out.”…….huh?

glamdll

“ignorance”

SophiaAngeliNelson

I agree with you. I feel like I bent over backwards in my book to give brothers a chance to say what they needed, wanted, felt. I just can’t deal with the lack of accountability and denial. SMH. Tomfoolery–great word!

glamdll

@SophiaAngeliNelson

“tomfoolery” is a word that I came up with to define things that make absolutely no sense (and it keeps me from cussing:)-….I can’t wait to get your book

Great article. Black men realize they have options. That’s why they’re not serious about relationships and marriage. It’s really time black women wake up to the fact we have options as well! There are white men and other non-black men out there who find us attractive, want to marry us and have families together. I was never raised with the expectation that I should marry a black man. I’m thankful for that because in a way it made it easier for me to date outside my race. I didn’t feel any guilt about dating the men I was truly attracted to.

Just a side note to those who are on the fence about whether they should pursue a relationship with a white man because of the challenges they may face. My husband (white) and I have been married for 11 years. We were dating and engaged about 3 years prior to that. In all our time together, we have not been met with any significant issues due to being in an IR marriage. Our marriage has been met by in large with acceptance from our families, friends, our community, our workplace, our kids’ school, our church (we’re both Catholic). Even strangers (mostly white) will approach us and tell us how beautiful our children are. Our marriage really is just like any other couple’s marriage. My parents were married for 48 years before my Daddy passed, so I know how a marriage between two people of the same race works LOL! The differences in race have not been a big deal. Granted, I know people and places are different elsewhere (we live in NC). And that we’re all coming into this from different perspectives. But I did want to share my own experience that IR relationships/marriage aren’t always filled with constant struggles.

Alana 2

Well put!

jess1

after reading what ms nelson wrote i can see why people think wm are plan b for bw. she was ready to drop everthing for a black kang who had been stringing her along for a while? her statement abt going for what you need vs what u want realy gives non bm the wrong impression.

I was thinking the same thing. But I’m coming to the realization that some black women will have to be shat on 50-11 different times and waste years of their lives before they start liking what’s good for them–and who is good to them–instead of who is exciting. @jess1

Brenda55

@jess1 I had a problem with that also. To her credit she did own that part of her statement. I also wrote a post addressing that point. Dating and marrying out side of ones race should not be something you do when you have exhausted all other options. It is a viable option for women from the beginning of their dating lives. I am afraid that parts of Ms Nelsons’s statement have the undertone that “time is running out so with some reservations I’ll settle for the white guy”. I hope that is inadvertent and that the gentleman in question knows better. She did say that she saw this recent experience as a wake up call and realizes what she nearly gave away. She’s human and the man in question knows her better than we do. No one like being seen a sloppy seconds.

Betty Boo

The black guy who was “wooing” her then all of a sudden ran when she opened up is TYPICAL of alot of black men. he was just “testing” to see if he could still “get” her and when she opened up he put up a wall. I see black men do this alot, they see a black women who is dating a white man then they pull all the stops to woo her back “home” to “Prove a point” then they dump her and move on. I had a freind who was at a club with a friend of hers. They sat by these 4 black men for a couple of hours, the guys pretty much ignored them. When two white men approached them and asked to dance then all of a sudden the brothas were vying for their attention. The truth is they still did not want my friends, it was a competition thing they wanted to prove they still run things and even if they did not want my freind they still had the power to keep them in reserve until the decided they were interested and any man that challenged that they could put in check (NOT)

JoeClyde

Are there any other issues going on with black women. That doesn’t revolve around dating black men?

Seriously. Is there nothing else black women could be doing to uplift Black women. Besides saying get a white guy?

Koreans still run the beauty industry right. Black teenage girls still have high pregnancy and STD rates last time I checked. Only 19% of the Black community has a 4 year degree. Nothing really to brag about.

But. Get a white guy. All problems will be solved. 2012. Please come.

eugeniamitchell

@JoeClyde don’t you have something better to do with your time on a holiday than hang around a BWE site and worry about what is white man chasing bw are doing. Now be gone, we have business to attend to that no longer involves the fragile egos of bm like you. Bye!

@JoeClyde IA with eugina, surely you have a loving family with whom you could be spending time rather than being here, so sad and bitter. That just makes me thing you are alone and miserable.

I almost feel sorry for you. Though, I’ll reserve sympathy for persons actually striving to change their situation, and not looking to “guilt-trip” total strangers into dawning superman capes to save the black race.

glamdll

@JoeClyde

Awww……you want a white guy….I’m not sure this is the right blog….just saying:)-

Betty Boo

@JoeClyde Ok I present to you an allegory then I will speak. It is FOOLISH to go into a chineese restaraunt and complain about the fact they don’t serve italian food in there. if you want italian food then you go to an italian restaraunt. This blog has one focus, to encourage black women to see beyond black and white to establish choices that will help them create better lives for themselves within a healty family structure (which would help deal with the STD and teen pregnancy problem) that is the M.O. for the blog. If you want to rant about koreans owning the hair stores, low education rate, THEN GO SUPPORT A BLOG THAT ADDRESSES THOSE ISSUES. AND STOP COMPLAIING ON THIS ONE! and if there is not one to your liking then GO CREATE ONE and you can rant all you like.

Betty Boo

@JoeClyde Ok I present to you an allegory then I will speak. It is FOOLISH to go into a chineese restaraunt and complain about the fact they don’t serve italian food in there. if you want italian food then you go to an italian restaraunt. This blog has one focus, to encourage black women to see beyond black and white to establish choices that will help them create better lives for themselves within a healty family structure (which would help deal with the STD and teen pregnancy problem) that is the M.O. for the blog. If you want to rant about korean owning the hair stores, low education rate, THEN GO SUPPORT A BLOG THAT ADDRESSES THOSE ISSUES. AND STOP COMPLAIING ON THIS ONE! and if ther eis not one to your liking then GO CREATE ONE and you can rant all you like.

Mocha Z

@Betty Boo @JoeClyde Maybe she will open a black beautt supply, have the mental and physical resources to contribute to the problems. Cant contribute if you are entrenched in the same cultural dysfunction. Wm are not the end all be all. Like men, women should be able to go up to the ice cream counter to choose or go get gelato, mango lassi, green tea ice cream or flan. Just handing every bw a chocolate scoop is called dictatorship and no o

Mocha Z

@betty @JoeClyde no other female or male in this country has gate keepers keeping them in a war zone. Are there bm that are the exception. Too few, though. So like any other person can do, they are free to look for their mate outside of the one container of ice cream in the corner liquor store.

JoeClyde

@Mocha Z@betty@JoeClyde

Thanks for giving an intelligent and mature response.

JoeClyde

@Mocha Z@betty

That is where I disagree with you. I honestly believe there is a 1:1 ration for “good” Black men and Black women.

Black men might show their “damage” externally. But damaged Black women just hide their issues with a suit.

You must have just comeback from Coldstone.

eugeniamitchell

@JoeClyde No one cares about you disagreeing. No one is begging you to be with a bw, you’re a bm you all have plenty of options in women and love taking them. So why not go out there and find a non-bw. Believe me the bw here will not be crying about your exit. So all the so-called ‘good’ bm and the bad ones are free to go, we set you free. Because as smart, good and capable bw, we’ve decided to go with our options too. So why are you upset, if we’re so damaged, we’re doing you a favor, aren’t we? @Mocha Z @betty

eugeniamitchell

@JoeClyde You’re one to talk, mature ppl don’t keep inserting themselves into places where they aren’t welcome. Mature ppl have other important things to do with their lives. We have no use for you here, you don’t get that, mature ppl would get that and go somewhere else. Because you’re not here to listen or to debate, you’re here to derail and to misinform. So mature and intelligent ppl don’t use these underhanded means just to try to gain attention like little children. @Mocha Z @betty

Christelyn

Whaddaya say, we ready to pull the floor from under Mr. Clyde, or do you all want to play with him some more first? @eugeniamitchell @JoeClyde @Mocha Z @betty

eugeniamitchell

@Christelyn Oh it’s so tough, I’d love to bat him around a bit with these pathetic post he keeps doing but we do have important things to do here like ogle hot wm LOL. @JoeClyde @Mocha Z @betty

Ebony82

@JoeClyde@Mocha Z@betty You’re on the wrong blog. It sounds like you want to encouraged black women to purchase damaged goods and let me give it to you straight: it ain’t working. Most women on this site are either in or are considering interracial relationships so this is the wrong place for you to rant and rave. No amount of you trying to persuade us will have us grown women, capable of making our OWN decisions, change our mind.

CierraWhatley

I like the point that you made about brothers, even the good ones, all know of a brother that is no good, destroying every woman in their path. Men have to take responsibility for each other, especially since these type of men tend to only respect other men.

“A successful man has a good, successful, loving woman by his side, not ten â€˜hoâ€™s! ”

It is the culture in the hood for some boys to chase girls, trying to have sex with as many as possible, leading to trickory, manipulation, and humiliation of girls. This creates predators for our preteen/teenage girls leaving them with babies, STDs and baggage. Its disgusting for teen boys to do this. But adult men having this lack of regard for women is disturbing. Real men know better.

Betty Boo

Ok I present to you an allegory then I will speak. It is FOOLISH to go into a chineese restaraunt and complain about the fact they don’t serve italian food in there. if you want italian food then you go to an italian restaraunt. This blog has one focus, to encourage black women to see beyond black and white to establish choices that will help them create better lives for themselves within a healty family structure (which would help deal with the STD and teen pregnancy problem) that is the M.O. for the blog. If you want to rant about korean owning the hair stores, low education rate, THEN GO SUPPORT A BLOG THAT ADDRESSES THOSE ISSUES. AND STOP COMPLAIING ON THIS ONE! and if ther eis not one to your liking then GO CREATE ONE and you can rant all you like.

Olivia

Yes! There is an ocean of men out there, and most sistas just keep throwing their line into the little pond of American black men. You know that pond, the one with all the algae and the old tires in it.

We’re entitled to anything and everything any other woman in this country is entitled to, and that includes, love, marriage, fidelity, and being provided for by our mate.

Keep moving forward! Don’t look back! Whether you know it or not, we are the shock troops clearing the way for the mass of foot soldiers thronging behind us.

glamdll

@Olivia

*Hand clap*…..reminds me of a Sojourner Truth/Harriet Tubman movement(subtle and effective)…one by one……

Bunny77

Dear Sophia,

Thank you for this post. I have a few thoughts, but will break them up into a few threads (just to keep it easy to read).

In general, I have appreciated that you continue to hit on an important point when you speak to black women, no matter how many people (including black women) resist your message. There IS something wrong when black women have to continually, year after year, figure out how to “get by” or “cope” with being single and alone on various celebratory days that would be spent with family. Yes, the Essence article was nice and presented some great ideas, but if you are a person who wants a relationship — and one that leads to marriage — all of the articles, daily affirmations from religious folks, etc., are simply band-aids after a while to the bigger problem. Black women should not, for large portions of their adult lives, have to figure out how to cope with singleness! Enough with the books and articles about being a great single… unless they are written to those who choose to be single… but no more for those who’d prefer to be in a relationship! It’s clear something’s wrong when you start noticing how you’re always trying to figure out how to “handle” the holidays, while your peers of other races are figuring out how to split time with their family and their husband’s family and who wants to see the kids, etc…

Enough with this inertia. I know in my own case, I realized how silly it was getting for the same pattern to be repeating itself year after year (no date, no relationship, no husband, no kids) and I finally decided to be proactive in seeking love and happiness… which is why I had the happy “dilemma” over the past two years of figuring out how to split the holidays between my family and my husband’s family. And I wouldn’t have it any other way.

Bunny77

Also, I agree that many of us know what it’s like to be that “back pocket girl,” or the “fallback option.” I experienced this quite a bit during my dating days, when single, never-married black men would check on me year after year to express their shock and awe that I was “still single,” and wondering why I wasn’t married yet. However, they never chose to ask me out after learning I was not in a relationship. There might be a few phone calls for a while and promises to visit, go out, etc., but it never amounted to anything. I eventually cut off all contact with these men, and they called me bitter, attitudinal, etc., because I had the gall to no longer entertain their lame attempts at whatever they were supposedly trying to do. I have no idea if it was an ego trip or what… from what I know, these guys are still single.

But at least I did not end up in multi-year relationships with men like this, only to learn after years that they had no intention of marrying me!

Ladies, never let yourself be strung along like that and don’t let yourself get in the position of being the girl that men claim are “the ones they want to marry,” but they won’t bother to court you! Don’t get caught up in words and cease contact with men who sap the emotional energy you could be spending on men who want to be with you right now and will show it through their actions.

Bunny77

Now for my point of criticism…

I know that you are speaking of your own experience and those of other women close to you when you speak of your concerns dating non-black men, particularly white ones. I won’t dispute what you felt or negate your experiences.

However, I have a problem with certain statements being used to speak for all black women or others which I don’t necessarily believe are true.

When you say this… “I have been wrestling a lot lately over my love interest because he is a white man… I suspect all sisters deal with this when dating and marrying a man outside the race,” count me out as one of those sisters.

I was never conflicted about dating and marrying out of the race and never wrestled over anything regarding my love for a husband who happens to be white. A quality man is a quality man. Many of the women on this board and others that I know in my own life never felt such conflict about marrying out of the race. We are in our late 20s-late 30s, so maybe there’s an age differential. I just met a black woman the other day who has a white fiancee, and she said it’s other black women who are NOT in interracial relationships who make more of a deal about her partner’s race than she did. There are plenty of black women capable of loving a man of another race without having a bit of conflict over it.

Bunny77

And finally this… “Black and white cultures are vastly different.” Huh? How? Let’s see, thinking of the white men I’ve dated, we’ve shared the same nationality (American), the same regional perspective (Midwestern/Southern), same spiritual beliefs, same upbringing in middle-class households with college-educated parents, same experience of attending college, some similar political beliefs (but not always), strong beliefs in marriage and family, etc.

Our differences based on race? Some foods (but not really), some phrases and slang, some musical tastes and different hair textures and grooming practices. But I’d probably have some of those same differences with a black man from an African country or from Brazil.

I’m wondering what is the basis for saying that black and white cultures are vastly different, when in my experience (and others I’ve heard), the more difficult differences to navigate are often those of class and nationality, not purely race.

The reason I bring this up is because I believe that a lot of black women’s fear about interracial dating is based on this false, in my opinion, belief that black women are so drastically different than all other women, which in turn would mean that a romantic relationship could not happen with anyone but a black man. We’re “othering” ourselves, when women from other nations who probably have MORE cultural differences with American white men than African-American women do seem to have no problem having intimate, romantic relationships with white men. That includes black women from the Caribbean and Africa… so why then are we black American women still hung up on this belief in “vast cultural differences?”

I’m sorry, but some of our OWN hangups are the things holding us back most from love.

Okay, I’m done. Thank you for your post and for your book. (I do have it… it will make for good holiday reading, I’m sure.)

Brenda55

@Bunny77 Bunny OMG. This post should be carved in granite. This is at the heart of the matter. The problem that Black women have with expanding their dating and marriage options are right between their ears and the solutions are there also. I believe that this is more a a problem with black women in the US.

My experience has been much like yours. I had no problem finding the man I married physically attractive. There was no guilt when we went out on dates, There was much we had in common and we shared many values and goals. Finally the last thing I am thinking about is history,politics, slavery and Jim Crow when we are in bed.

Black women, especially we in the US, need to embrace our own humanity and stop being caricatures drawn by others who do not have our best interest at heart. We are made into whatever benefits those who impose those traits without consideration of what it cost us. When you embrace your own humanity you are then able to see the humanity in others and can connect on that level, human being to human being. Man to woman.

Mocha Z

@Bunny77

Soon, the ww, aw, eurow or any non bw that the bm marries will replace the bw that are throwing tar on social networking sites about the foul behavior that has children fatherless, sometimes homeless and with no legacy.

BM call bw bitter after they left their children to be fed, clothed and reared by them. Even have the nerve to come back at the end when they are grown and judge the job the ran from. Bm call bw bitter when they themselves were left by the same type of fathers they had and now chose to be. Bm call bw bitter when they don’t fight but run from that behavior that can cost them everything, sometimes even their lives(STDs). And in all of what is happening in the struggle of living like that, what do you call the bm?

Mocha Z

@Brenda55@Bunny77

The changes will have to come if risking their and their current or future children’s lives on an abusive relationship is their only given option by bm and the coveted bc of family destruction. No other group of women in the U.S. will give so much and get little to nothing in return. Having babies isn’t about being cute and never was to me and many women, marriage or not. The only thing that does make it a treasure is having the partner to help you nurture and rear them to reflect positive principles and legacy building.

If more bw start thinking with their brain and not with with bc logic, not only will they not marry bm, they may be so worn by the bc in their own families, children will be completely out of the question. Women taking care of siblings their daddy didn’t bother to support are choosing not to have their own children because of the burden the bc left on them and their siblings.

Mocha Z

@Brenda55@Bunny77

I guarantee the media will put the worst bm/ww scenarios on exhibit soon enough with the influx of bm/ww IR and there will be a fear of a relationship or marriage to bm starting to creep into the minds of non bw. It will create a shift either way but bw don’t have to be the mule to help that change up the side of the mountain at her expense.

ForestElfQueen

@Bunny77 I agree. No ‘wrestling’ or ‘vastly different’ anything in my experience either. I’m not discounting anyone else’s experience or feelings…it’s just not how things came together for me. In some ways, it was more natural, simple, & in the flow of my life to date & marry a euro.

@Bunny77 Agree! I always knew I was attracted to white men. So I always knew I would marry one. It would have been more unexpected in my case if I had dated and married a black man. Growing up, there were no expectations placed on me about marrying only black men. My older sisters dated white men (and black men). So I didn’t feel limited in my dating/marriage options.

@Bunny77 Also agree with Bunny on her points about culture. There really are no cultural differences between my husband and myself! We both grew up in the South, we were both raised in Christian families, both raised in two parent homes. Honestly, I have more in common culturally with a white person raised in the South, than I do say with a black person from New York. Having the same race, doesn’t really equate to having a similar culture in my book. Plus as I mentioned above, I’m not sure what “black culture” is. Not really emphasized in my home.

Joyce345

@Bunny77

LOL!! You have put it very well.

Please, take it from an African woman.

I know fellow African women who are married to Americans, Australians, Germans, Chinese, French, Swedes – notice these are people who don’t even speak the same language – and they did not let the so-called ‘cultural differences’ between them prevent that from happening.

Trust me, African American women and White American men have NO significant cultural differences between them.

None.

ForestElfQueen

@Joyce345@Bunny77

“Trust me, African American women and White American men have NO significant cultural differences between them.”

Yes!! So true! I know women in France from several African countries who married white French guys. I agree that Americans make more out of the so-called gulf between groups than there actually is. In the US i really think that class trumps color( for the most part )anyway.

I’m from the US and my dh is French and there really hasn’t been anything mind-blowingly different for me to adjust to. I think it’s also the time in history y’know… with air travel, media, internet etc. there’s not much that is super-strange, overwhelmingly ‘foreign’ anymore.

Joyce345

@ForestElfQueen@Bunny77

Absolutely. My girl got married to an Australian man while she was abroad. They travelled to Africa a few months ago because he wanted to throw her a wedding in her home town. They also had a second honeymoon.

I thought that was so sweet!

As you have said, with air travel, media, internet, television there is nothing so strange.

They probably listen to the same music, and enjoy the same food anyway.

Ebony82

@Bunny77 I definitely agree with your post and I totally feel the same way. I was always attracted to men of other ethnicities and never gave consideration to whether or not someone would care because it’s what I wanted. Fear definitely holds us back and then hopelessness sets in once time had passed.

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77 I must say I agree with you, the time I was single I enjoyed it but when I didn’t want to be single anymore, I got off my behind and did something about it. As a Christian I’m tired of hearing bw say God will bring me someone, I think bw do that out of laziness and fear. I knew God would bring me someone but God needed for me to get up and be available, sitting at home shoving Ben and Jerry’s Chunky Monkey in my mouth and watching movies is not the way to do it. I’m sorry God doesn’t take forever to answer prayers, I prayed and he answered that prayer quick and I did not look a gift horse in the mouth. I know women who have praying for umpteen years, huh what God knows that if you want a family you can’t wait till 50. My thought God is sending bw, good men all kinds of varied packages but most bw are so stuck on stupid, they don’t know a good one when they see one. You don’t have forever to toy with someone’s emotions, eventually great guys catch a clue and leave you behind to snuggle with your quandry at night of whether you want a bm or wm. When I got presented the gift of my husband, I opened that package quick and claimed my gift. If you’re tried of being single, get out there and make a plan and do something about it. Why spend your holidays alone or vacations with another single gf, when you want intimacy of relationship but you’re trying to be proud and single. I wanted a partner, I wanted to share my life an happiness with someone and I wasn’t ashamed to say. All the whisperings of ‘you can’t even be independent’ ‘you gotta have a man’ I heard behind my back, we’re ignored, screw them broads they didn’t have the sense and courage that I had to make myself available to love. I had a woman at my church say when my Pastor was announcing that Matt and I were getting married ‘you trying this again’ in a smug kind of way, now she’s been sitting on that pew for 15 years, being the backdoor woman for one of the players at the church, who married somebody else. Yes, I told her, God meant for us to be in a loving partnership that’s what I got here, I’m not insulting God by refusing his blessing. She just looked and I just smiled on as others congratulated me. She still sitting there, still with no prospects. If bw want a partner, they better open their eyes they are around everywhere, just open up your eyes.

Betty Boo

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77 Eugenia, great testimony! She was a backdoor woman for a married player but looked at you cross eyed when you got married. SMH……

Marcie

@eugeniamitchell @Bunny77……now that is straight and unashamed talk. I likkeee, now where do you get such inspirational talk? * me looking to the sky*

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

smh….she tried to hate on your happiness and wedded bliss while she is foolishly creeping aound with someone else’s husband

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

“around”

eugeniamitchell

@glamdll No she wasn’t creeping it was worse, the player of the church at the time of their going around together was unmarried and you know she’d been praying asking for a husband and thought he was going to be it, while he used her and waited for what he really wanted, another woman he got pregnant (his 9th child) and married, the one he married was smart woman, a professor at University of Washington I felt sorry for her. But that’s what bw are for real settling for, men with a bunch of children and baggage b/c they gotta have a black man. SMDH.@Bunny77

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@glamdll@Bunny77

This story reminds me of a “distant” friend that gives me the side eye for dating interracially. She was dating a pastor(bm) and she thought that they were going to be married, but one Sunday a deacon tried to attack him because he had impregnated his teenage niece. Next, rumors started flying about him spending time with a stripper and she ignored those too. Then one Sunday the cops raided the church because it turned out that he had been selling drugs and pimping out of the church. She held on until it was revealed that he had secretly married the stripper.

eugeniamitchell

@glamdll Now someone in another post accused me of settling b/c I married a loving, supportive, employed in an actual career, kind, considerate, faithful white man b/c he said ‘he couldn’t dress’ b/c you know for bm that’s all that matters, their swag, SMH. But you what you just wrote, this is settling, this is the very definition of settling. @Bunny77

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

The sad part is that it’s a true story. And this fool still gives me the side eye for dating interracially.

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

The sad part is that it’s a true story. And this fool still gives me the side eye for dating interracially.

glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

The sad part is that it’s a true story. And this fool still gives me the side eye for dating interracially.

Bunny77

Wow, a college professor marrying a serial baby daddy… you worked that hard to establish yourself and you hitch your wagon to a dude with nine kids. Hello child support payments… (yes ladies, your income can be included on that if you marry a dude with outside kids!!!)@eugeniamitchell @glamdll

@eugeniamitchell@glamdll@Bunny77 Attacking the superficial is the easiest when you don’t have much to work with personally. No valid reasons to sentence bw to the enslavement of bc other than attack you or attack the wm or non bm.

Swag doesn’t pay the bills, take care of the kids and take care of you when you need it most. Dressing to impress and walking back pushing a baby stroller from the bus stop coming from the gov’ment food stamp line to sleep on his mama’s sofa isn’t way more unsettling and cult like?

Who could be brainwashed to choose that first? Someone in a cult like the bc has become! Funny how the ww isn’t required to deal with bc hell by moving to the hood to help her bm save the entire bc. I warn the ones I see that think they love bm. Bw survive and deal but a ww who is used to having the usual needs met might lose her life. Figuratively and literally.

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77 Yea she if I remember correctly she was a doctor and taught at the medical school. I’m telling you, my mouth hangs open at the utter shock of some of the sorry choices I see supposedly smart bw making partners and yes in a community property state your income is subject to attachment if you have a man that owes for child support. @glamdll

Joyce345

@eugeniamitchell@glamdll@Bunny77 OMG, a Professor?????

glamdll

@Bunny77@eugeniamitchell

Smdh…this puts brainwashed/blackwashed on a whole new level. No wonder bm think that they can conquer any woman with their “bbc” and “swag”….as some one said in another post “Jesus take the wheel.”

glamdll

@Joyce345@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77

The professor has to be a sista soldier….

Tiffany315

@eugeniamitchell@glamdll@Bunny77 Yeah, like swag is building a life. SWAG=Superficiality Wrapped in A##hole Gear. Don’t want it, don’t need it.

Karla

@eugeniamitchell Well, now we see why soap operas are going the way of the dodo bird. They can’t possibly compete with real “life”.

zabeth

@Karla@eugeniamitchell I can’t believe some of these stories- incredible.

eugeniamitchell

@zabeth It’s true, the truth is just stranger than fiction. I couldn’t make this up and wouldn’t want to LOL. @Karla

@eugeniamitchell Well, now we see why soap operas are going the way of the dodo bird. They can’t possibly compete with real “life”.

Bunny77

SMH at the woman at your church for everything… I like what you said before about your pastor encouraging marriages… maybe she should catch a clue. But you know some people… drama is their life. When she eventually figures out her silliness, watch her bring up the ole “Jesus is my husband” thing… because that’s easier to do than take responsibility for your actions!

And yes, I think too many single Christian women focus on the wrong thing… they’re so caught up in thinking it’s a bad thing to look for a relationship and seek a partner, that they just sit there and act like the only way a relationship will be “blessed” is by God delivering the man to their doorsteps! I really don’t think God cares about HOW two people find each other, it’s what the two people do once they’re together that’s the most important. God is not going to hold back his blessings from a relationship just because they met through Match.com, okay? 🙂

@eugeniamitchell

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77 You know in my church our Pastor gets reassigned every year, so he may stay or you may go but he’s been there now or about 5 yrs and I’m thinking they’re going to move him to bigger and better things. I have a awesome Pastor who’s really bringing a church that has been stuck on dogma into the 21st century, my church is more diverse, the man is pushing marriage trying to open the church up to all people. A bunch of ppl have been pissed about it, so when he leaves when they transfer him b/c a bunch of my church’s members are nitwits that will be the last time I attend that church. I’m already attending a diverse church out where I live, looking for a spot that feels welcoming to me and my husband. But yea she missed that too busy hating b/c I decided to marry IR again. SMH. Yes, too many Christian women use that excuse and it’s a sad one don’t make God responsible for your laziness and fear. This is a big world, you could meet the love of your life anywhere and no God won’t be mad if it’s Match.com. Ppl are made are companionship, that’s part of our purpose.

SophiaAngeliNelson

@Bunny77 i

SophiaAngeliNelson

@Bunny77 thanks for the comments

Brenda55

SAN: â€œBut, letâ€™s have some grown folks talk can we?â€

B55: OK I’m game.

SAN: â€œWhite men, who date black women, particularly as they are just starting out in their lives or in their careers, can face career limitations, family scorn and worse.â€

B55: All this is true and yet an increasing number of non-black men do just that every year. They date black women and marry black women. If there is a complaint it is that there are not enough black women interested in them. These men are willing to put it on the line for black women. Work out your issues with IR dating and mating before you wast some guys time. He is putting a lot on the line for you. Respect that.

SAN: â€œItâ€™s the age old dilemma: Go with the man you want, or with the man that you need, the man that you can build a life with, versus the one that makes your heart skip a beat.â€

B55: All I can say to that is this. You have the right one when the man you are with is all of those things. The man you need and who you can build a life with deserves to be wanted and desired. If you can only see what he is giving you and not what your are giving him then the relationship is flawed. When he is the right man then there are no doubts , no reservations. His well-being is every bit as essential to you as your own is and vice versa. Less that that then you are not ready to commit. When you do have that then anything your family, friends, colleagues the world say about your relationship cannot shake you. You are on solid ground. That is why some of us can make these commitments and others cannot. Why some of us can look over at our mates and not see race but see that one soul who completes us. There is a serenity that comes with being that centered in a relationship with another human being. Race differences are not a good enough reason to be denied that blessing.

Brenda55

SAN: â€œI have heard the stories from friends who have gone that way, and I have seen the struggles these couples have in my own family. Black and white cultures are vastly different. And while we know most people marry people who look like them, are educated like them, who are socialized like them, interracial dating is becoming more en- vogue. Yet, every sisterâ€™s deepest fear is that a white man only wants her so he can to â€œtry it outâ€-or so she can be his â€œchocolate fantasyâ€, and then drop her when it is time to get married or take her home to his family. This is real and it is what keeps most sisters away from white men.â€

B55: And how is this any different from what the commitment phobic black men are routinely doing to black women?

Remember these lines?

â€œTo be direct this brother has toyed with me for years from a distance with his statements of adoration: â€œyou are my typeâ€, â€œI like youâ€, â€œI made mistakes in my pastâ€, â€œwish Iâ€™d had a chance with youâ€, â€œIâ€™d marry you in a minuteâ€, and â€œweâ€™d be good togetherâ€ rhetoric. He also knows that I have been romantically involved with a white man on and off for several years. And I think that the fear finally set in that I might marry this man, and he would lose me for good. Up steps brotha man to the rescueâ€

Again how is this any different. That’s right, not a darn thing is diffrent. That was classic cock block. Screwed over is still screwed no matter if it is from a non-black man or a black man. The bus running over you is just as damaging no matter who is driving it. Leave race out of it. Look for quality. Vet.

SAN: â€œYes, marriage is for black people too. 92% of black men, who get married, marry black women. 96% of black women, who marry, marry black men. Yes, there are good black men! The problem is that most of those men are already taken by the time they are in their late 30s and 40s (even in the 20s).â€

B55: Why is that? Because the percentage of black men and women who actually marry each other is small, small, small. Less that 50% of marriage age adults. Why? Because black men are collecting harems, are commitment phobic and are married to non-black women.

Bunny77

Okay, why were we typing the same thing at the same time? 🙂 @Brenda55

SophiaAngeliNelson

@Brenda55 some of us are not where you are but we are trying to get there-be patient please

Brenda55

@SophiaAngeliNelson Sophia you are right and there is no need to ask me for patience. This is your life, your journey and your point of view. I respect that. I am just expressing mine. It took a lot of years for me to get here.

I married for the first time at age 47. Look at that number There is so much time wasted where I could have been happy but lacked the courage to reach for it. Much too much caring about what others thought was right for me and not listening to the voice inside of me telling me the direction I should go.

When I met my now husband I listened to me and followed my heart. I have never regretted doing so. The naysayers and distractors either stepped in line behind my choice or are no longer a part of my life. I do not miss these people not one of them ever gave me what my husband gives. Not. One.

I guess it is better to wise up at age 47 and have this level of happiness at age 56 than never to have had it at all. Sometimes you do get that second chance but there are no guarantees. I am mindful not to grieve, to much, for opportunities lost and never recovered.

You are only young and beautiful once and time takes its toll on all of us. Time is the one thing we all have a finite amount of. Better to spend that time loving and being loved and less time worrying about the package that love comes in.

eugeniamitchell

@Brenda55 you are correct I realized long ago time is not for forever, no should waste the precious time they have debating whether they deserve a happy fulfilled life. That’s one of the reasons I divorced my 1st husband, I was wasting precious time I would never get back. I’m glad I did more with God’s precious gift and accepted the gift of love and fulfillment and a happy marriage. @SophiaAngeliNelson

Marcie

Thanksgiving day one year ago…..and if I knew then what I know now. Amen.To the BB&W crew, thank you for all the words of encouragement and support. Thanks for everything.x

Law Wanxi

“Black and white cultures are vastly different.”

I’m going to call Bird Speech on that one. Black and White culture define almost completely USA culture, taken as a whole. You might want to run that by Asians and Latinos. Heck, we could both use a good LOL.

Law Wanxi

“Black and white cultures are vastly different.”

I’m going to call Bird Speech on that one. Black and White culture almost completely define USA culture, taken as a whole. You might want to run that by Asians and Latinos. Heck, we could both use a good LOL.

Brenda55

@Law Wanxi I have run into this thought before and I have to agree with you. I remember once my husband and I were traveling in Kansas City Mo.. We were going to Arthur Bryant’s for ribs. During a cab ride there was some sort of report, yet another about Black and whites being at each others throats over some such. I remember saying that it seems that as far as the media is concerned the only two groups who matter in the country are Blacks and Whites Its as if no one else lives here. The Arab man who was driving the cab burst out laughing nodding his head agreeing.

Maybe some of that will pass since blacks are no longer the largest minority. However black people do self segregate and White do tend to not want to live around minorities so I guess that is why some people have that attitude that there are two distinct cultures. I was always raised in diverse communities so I tend to see the similarities and the connections and not the differences.

@Law Wanxi I agree with you Law. There’s really been no cultural differences my husband and I have had to overcome in the years we’ve been together. I was born and raised in the South, and my husband has lived here since he was a child. So we had similar experiences growing up for the most part. I’m not even sure what “black culture” is because my parents never really emphasized that.

AJ1997

I think by culture she means “black” identified. Hopefully I’ll be able to elaborate on this one of these days.

Bunny77

AJ, I think I get what you mean… when I think of “black identified” I think of one having his or her entire non-working life (and sometimes, even working life) completely centered in mostly black environments. So, one could work in a black urban school district/city government, worship at a black church in one of the evangelical denominations (especially like COGIC), be part of a black sorority or fraternity, be involved in black professional groups, participate in other black civic organizations, etc.

And there’s nothing wrong with any of that if it makes you happy and you have a happy and fulfilled life doing all of the above. But, I find that black people (mostly women) who live like this usually are the most likely to consider themselves or their “culture” as being completely diametrically opposed to lives lived by whites. There might be some superficial contact with whites at work (“Hi Bob, how was your Thanksgiving? Oh you went to see your mother-in-law in the country? How nice.), but no true sense of friendship and camaraderie with whites.

The thing is, for me, I grew up this way (very black identified based on where I lived), but it never crossed my mind that I was supposed to be that way for the rest of my life and that I couldn’t meet, associate and form genuine friendships with non-blacks. I never felt beholden to my “black identification,” and my family never pushed me to be that way either.

Is that what you mean AJ?

@AJ1997

AJ1997

@Bunny77 Not at all:) In fact you’ve described a big part of my routine with the exception of the church. I grew up in and belong a mixed congregation but I still go to grandmother’s church to hear the choir. I volunteer at a black veteran’s association,the YEFGC, I have a plot in the urban gardens, and hand my family owns a business and a few properties in the black neighborhood where I hope to move to. There are these HUGE old homes that are amazing, they just need some elbow grease.

I wanted to frame “black” identified as feminists would male identified. I read “All Men are Black….”a few years ago and the title stuck with me. Being “black” identified means taking social cues from black men or as the definition I found says:

“women whose sense of self was totally circumscribed by â€œ(black) masculineâ€ standards of beauty, femininity, sexuality, and power, those who in other words identified with (black) men.

CierraWhatley

@Law Wanxi

yeah, I sometimes try to think of what makes blacks and whites different culturally, but we are more alike than not.

SophiaAngeliNelson

@Law Wanxi I apologize for leaving out other culture sir, but to be direct my article was about BLACK WHITE relationships so what I said is absolutely correct and understood in its context.

SophiaAngeliNelson

Thank you all for the comments and dialogue

mahogany

â€œAs a Christian I’m tired of hearing bw say God will bring me someone, I think bw do that out of laziness and fear.â€

They get it from some BM pastors.

I used to belong to a very popular COGIC church in Los Angeles. Most of the congregants were blackâ€”99%. The pastor was black and probably in his early 60s. One day the BM pastor was talking about marriage and he was preaching that â€œwaitâ€ indoctrination to women. It went something like this

Pastor-And sisters, God will send you someone, you just have to wait.

BW- Amen Pastor. Amen Pastor

Me-(thinking silently to myself) Not all of these women are going to be married. Wait, let me stop thinking negative. This must be the devil.

Pastor- Sister please stand up. (A BW who appears to be in her late 40s stands). See, this sister just got married.

Just Married Sister- (dancing and shouting) Praise him

Me- (feeling a pit in my stomach) Good for her, but not all of these women will not be married.

Pastor-(to the women) God will send you someone, you just got to WAIT and STAY BUSY in the church.

Me- (thinking to myself) This doesnâ€™t FEEL right. I got to get out of here.

That is exactly what I did. I got out of that church. I will be joining a racially diverse church soon.

Christelyn

Can’t believe I’m commenting when I’m supposed to be in a 24-hour coma, but I couldn’t resist. WE WENT TO THE SAME CHURCH! I’m mean, THE EXACT ONE! LMAO at “Wait, let me stop thinking negative. This must be the devil.” AHAHAHHAHAHA! @mahogany

Brenda55

@Christelyn @mahogany

Chris you are in a coma. Its just your so tuned into the blog you’re responding telepathically. Grrrril I’m scared of you.

eugeniamitchell

@mahogany well I got a BM Pastor the one that was too happy to marry me and husband but I’m AME and he’s been encouraging marriage all the time I’ve been there and a lot of other things that make religious folks uncomfortable. He’ll be reassigned come next year and when he is I’m leaving my church for new one. Already looking, but my Pastor is an anamoly which why he’s a good friend of mine also. I feel bad for women who are at churches that are actually discouraging good partnerships and marriage, what kind of mess is that SMDH.

Bunny77

Glad you got out Mahogany!

And another thing… going back to what I’m always saying… is it really a good thing that the BW who just got married had to wait until she was in her LATE 40s to do so? If it’s her second marriage (and maybe it is) that’s one thing… but if this is her first marriage, then SMH (not at her).

It’s a GREAT thing to find love and be married at any age, so I celebrate the fact that sista found it. But if I was 20-something and wanting to marry, that whole sermon would’ve gotten me MORE anxious than less… because if you’re telling me that by “waiting on God,” I gotta wait until I’m damn near 50 to get married, then how about I not “wait” and actually be proactive and not be so busy in a church where there are no single men my age to be found?

Logic is an amazing thing…

@mahogany

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77 I’m telling you the new thing I keep hearing about and I wrote about this too is the waiting till ‘you’re ready’ to have kids for bw so other bw are telling bw to not look for marriage in their 20s/30s, have babies at 40 and 50 yrs old. Instead of encouraging bw to look for marriage with a good partner, no matter what color, in their 20s and 30s. Now the thing I keep hearing is wait on a bm to find you attractive even if that’s till you’re 40s or 50s then you can have kids b/c that’s natural for you. Personally I think natural is having a baby when you’re body is equipped to do so and that’s not in your 40s or 50s not that it can’t happen but that’s just not the optimum time to have kids, so why not make a plan in your 20s/30s find a suitable mate, enjoy the time being married, then have kids after a couple of years of marriage like normal ppl. I swear the bc is the bizzaro world! Everything is done backwards.@mahogany

Brenda55

off @eugeniamitchell @Bunny77 @mahogany

There is a reason most women who live in NORMAL environments and not dysfunctionlvainia know to have their kids in their twenties. that is when you are the most fertile and have the best chance to have a normal and uneventful pregnancy. Fertility drops off markedly after 30 years of age and the risk of having an abnormal child increases.

I really do not expect much from a group that is too ignorant to know about the working of their own bodies and still are holding up the Tuskegee experiments as a reason not to trust the medical establishment.

Christelyn

Testifying to this. My sis-in-law didn’t get pregnant for the first time until she was 37. It took years to even get pregnant, not to mention the extra medical intervention she needed. People need to realize that have children ain’t like it is in Hollywood. You can’t just to decide to have a baby at 40 and expect there not to be problems. Granted, I got pregnant VERY easily at 35, but I’d already had three other kids…my body was used to it! lol @eugeniamitchell @Bunny77 @mahogany

Brenda55

@Christelyn @eugeniamitchell@Bunny77@mahogany

It seems when your young or broke all a gal has to do is sit in a chair a guy just got out of the get knocked up. 🙂

Brenda55

@Christelyn @eugeniamitchell@Bunny77@mahogany It seems when your young or broke all a gal has to do is sit in a chair a guy just got out of to get knocked up. 🙂

eugeniamitchell

@Brenda55@Christelyn @Bunny77@mahogany Well that’s the new thing you know all the bw that have waiting around umpteen years for an IBM, it’s okay, keeping waiting he’ll show up and you have kids when you’re in your 40s and 50s it’s like bw are being told yea ‘that’s natural’ for us having kids with no husband when you’re young or having kids when you’re old like a dang X-Men mutant, I can’t take it SMH.

Bunny77

Eugenia, who are the people saying “it’s natural” for BW to have kids in their 40s???? Where are they even getting that from? @eugeniamitchell @Brenda55 @Christelyn @mahogany

Brenda55

@eugeniamitchell@Christelyn @Bunny77@mahogany

I’m 56 and the LAST thing I want at this point is a baby. Hubby would be crowing like the cock in the barn yard but that a guy for you. They like knowing they still have the seed but I would be one EVIL sister.

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77@Brenda55@Christelyn @mahogany I saw it in this article about Nia Long having a baby, she’s 40, whoever the daddy is. and I wrote this blog post, b/c I’ve heard this sentiment before http://wp.me/p1LNjf-2D and yes it bothers me. We’re not all Nia or any other Hollywood star with access and money for Nannies, this is just not a good idea to be pushing for bw. But it seems to be a new one.

zabeth

@eugeniamitchell@Bunny77@Brenda55@Christelyn @mahogany I think most women would prefer to have their children when its the optimum time but, things don’t always work out that way. So I don’t begrudge any woman for when she chooses to start her family.

eugeniamitchell

@zabeth@Bunny77@Brenda55@Christelyn @mahogany I’m not mad if things don’t work out and just end having a child later in life but that’s not what I’ve been hearing, what I’ve hearing is instead of making a solid plan that will get you a mate at the optimum time to have children just wait and do ‘what’s natural’ which is not really natural it’s unnatural have kids when you’re in your 40s. That’s a dangerous message for bw’s health, dangerous. We got black young wm in college and just out of college who would like to be married but waiting on IBMs and instead of being encouraged to do what normal do, they’re being told to either be a baby mama or wait till your IBM shows up later in life and have a kid then. Both of those options suck. Yes @Joyce345 finding a good husband is a deliberate act, not one you’re waiting happen ‘naturally’ and bw should not end up in marriage or relationship at mid-40s trying to rush a baby b/c their biological clock is ticking like a bomb. One of the best things about marriage is actually getting to enjoy being a wife and husband, enjoying the freedom of that before you introduce children into your marriage.

Bunny77

Zabeth, I don’t think any of us begrudge a woman for it either. Shoot, I’m going to BE one of those women who has her kids mid-to-late 30s because I didn’t get married until I was a few days shy of age 33. So I just have to roll with the punches and hope it all works out for the best. I’m actually not overly concerned, as plenty of women have babies in their early-to-mid 30s (my mom, my aunts, etc.) and everything is just fine, but I know that to have all of the kids I want (or decide to want), I don’t really have a ton of time to be waiting, as I would have if I had started at say, 28.

Nothing I can do to change that now, but I just continue to speak to younger black women who are still being told to not even think about marriage and family planning because they need to “stay in the books,” or even worse, the “wait on God,” “wait on an IBM” folks who basically thumb their noses at a woman’s fertility window (or act like one doesn’t exist) by discouraging any effort or attempt by a black woman to actually proactively pursue her goals of marriage and children… no one should have to be in a “just married at 41 and immediately trying for a baby” situation when she doesn’t necessarily have to be. Again, one could do all the planning in the world and still end up in that situation, but I think a lot of us — if we could do things differently — might have put a greater priority on these things when we were in our 20s.

@zabeth@eugeniamitchell@Brenda55@Christelyn @mahogany

eugeniamitchell

@Bunny77@zabeth@Brenda55@Christelyn @mahogany That’s exactly what I mean Bunny, I have two good friends a white couple I met her in paralegal school she had already been married about 4 years, she and her husband met in college, dated, got married last year of college and started their lives together. She was moving into her career as a paralegal while he was working his way up at the bank. They were a happy, cute couple, I partied with them and we had fun about 8 or so years into the marriage they decided to have kids, by then she’d been doing well as a paralegal, he was moving into a career as Vice President of his bank. They’d bought a house and were starting the next phase of their lives, now they have three kids she’s about 37, nice home, she can stay home and care for the kids, he’s got a great job, they’re good. I thought that’s the way that many young bw should be doing it. But bw are told to as Bunny said ‘stay in the books’ so they miss the chance to date and find mates and think about marriage after college and start a life with someone wonderful. Bw are told to buy their own homes and cars then wait an IBM who isn’t really ideal to come along and move into it with them and drive their car w/o the benefit of marriage. I don’t know how many times I’ve watched ‘House Hunters’ to see a beautiful bw buying a house while some no-count negro stands there to ‘help’ her pick one out. Because as one of them said ‘he’s not ready for that kind of commitment’ what kind of crap is that. So they’re helping her pick a house b/c he has no credit so he can move in with her and her child usually. SMH. Oh bc is so backwards.

Joyce345

I really liked some previous posts on this blog. There was one with advice from Chris’ mother in law and another one about what we can learn from Asian women.

Simply put, landing a good husband at your optimum age is not something that happens by accident. One has to be deliberate about that.

That is the message that needs to be passed to young black women – especially the ones in college.

@Bunny77@mahogany

NYCLisa

@mahogany If you’re a woman, and you wish to be married, what you bring to the table is your intellect, your personality, your looks, etc.

One of those things, your looks, your physical beauty, which happens to be one of the MOST IMPORTANT things in terms of the dating/mating dance that happens with men, is what economists would refer to as a “persishable asset”. The realtive worth of a perishable asset declines as it ages.

We sisters age wonderfully compared to other women, BUT, it would be a lot smarter to actively seek a mate when you are at or near the peak of your physical attractiveness as opposed to later. Nothing revolutionary about this statement; it just makes sense,that’s all. When a woman looks her best, that is generally the time when she is able to obtain the highest-quality mate. Period. There is no arguing that point.

Waiting until you’re thirty-five or forty years old? Bad strategy…

SpeckledWithLove

This post could not be more informative. I am young, and so my generation is much more open to interracial relationships. I am 20, husband also 20, and we have a daughter who will be a year come January. My husband is white. Our families are different, but the vast majority of both sides are very open to our relationship. Race is a bit of a cast out thing really, because what they were more upset with was that we married young. They wanted us in school. Of course, there were some concerns raised from the lesser of both our families (my father who is racist, and his step-father who doesn’t know what he is and won’t make up his mind, and his mother’s mother, who is racist…but that is 3 out of so many more people.)

Truth be told, you WILL have certain family members who will not accept it. They do come from a different generation usually, one which did not allow, accept, or expect their sons to marry Black women. My husband, and myself I’ll admit, were both naive to our familiy’s cultures. He was surprised at how much fun my family get togethers were, how lax family was around each other, but yet how selfish my family would be when it came to money, and material things. I was surprised at how uptight his family usually was, how small his family was, yet surprised at how they always wanted to help me and him in hard times, told me they loved me and openly gave hugs to me in hard times when I was down, and adored and loved our daughter. When you have that, those three people who make the very rare remarks seem like they don’t exist.

To top it off, show how much you are a respectable, well established woman who is not a joke. Be the strong woman you know you are. I am in school, almost done with a Paralegal degree which I plan to then turn around and find a degree that will better utilize my social prowess, as well as my desire to again travel the world. I was thinking Anthropologist 🙂 Or maybe go on and become an Attorney. My husband aspires to be an Aerospace engineer. We are young, but make excellent financial decisions which keep us stable and steady. That is all they can ask for of us. They did fear we wouldn’t complete school given our situation (marriage+baby), but they are proud to see otherwise.

I know my post was long, but I wanted it to be said, for the women who need reassurance that it is possible. Look beyond your race sometimes. Don’t exclude black men, but don’t accept the large amount that don’t want to make your life what it deserves to be. Many men of other races are AFRAID to talk to you! Talk to them 🙂 Most of their fear comes from those who are telling them the wrong things about us (black men, and whites who make assumptions about us [which I’ve learned is another trait of most white people, lol] but don’t really know.) So don’t limit your scope of love! Over and out…

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Best Interracial Dating Resources For Black Women

What are some of the best sites out there for black women open to interracial dating? Despite the negativity about black women dating out or being “unwanted,” there are men of all races who think we are divine. Let’s focus on where we are wanted! Here are a few we've found from the BB&W archives.