2 things the human race will have to combine and achieve before we evolve.

if we don't, it will be like a stagnant parasite within us all.

Quoting: Anonymous Coward 876442

While I do think that is a good idea in a perfect world....it is not a perfect world. Many people are jealous, lying, cheating, killing, backstabbing nogood lowdown scallywags. This in turn would lead to bands of scallywags traveling around trying to kill and take the stuff from good people. Same ol' story...why are people flawed? hmmmmm...................

The first loans centuries ago were of things like seeds and bred cows. The idea was that if you planted seeds of grain that the seed would multiply and the lender would get all of his loan back plus some additional "return." If a bred cow was the actual loan she should give birth and the lender might expect to get a return of milk and milk products and possibly the calf as well depending on the contract. It is not by accident that the word "chattel" is related to cattle.

This social memplex has continued into today; however Silvio Gesell revealed in 1919 that most things human create and use in daily life DO NOT grow nor gain, but in fact lose value over time; the central core of the Gesellian model is that some money should be withdrawn over time to symbolically reference the laws of nature called "entropy."

The concept I tried to convey in the "Liar's Poker Money System" is that the current model is always trying to convey the growth and multiplication model in defiance of the natural laws of entropy.

... I think the bankers are like a bunch of children pretending to be adults while playing a game where your ability to create lies and sell the lies to the other players is the most important part of the game...

There is a poker game called "liar's poker." I am not real knowledgeable about this, but as I understand-

a hand of cards is passed around the table where each player can keep as many cards as desired and/or exchange some from a "draw" stack. The exchanged cards are put in separate "discard" pile that is now out of play.

The previous player has made a statement about the value of the hand, and the subsequent player did not challenge, so now the subsequent player must have a hand that is of slightly (or much) higher value. It really is a game of bluff and the player's ability at selling a lie.

There is a book named after the game: Liar's Poker: Rising Through the Wreckage on Wall Street, by Michael Lewis.

Anyway, this whole federal reserve (not federal, no reserve) is a con job where top economists and treasury agents are engaged in a complex game of liar's poker that involves thousands of players directly involved and all the rest of the people indirectly involved.

The process of creating interest bearing hypothecated notes of debt involves a loan of ten (imaginary) marbles and a demand back of eleven (imaginary) marbles where the eleventh marble was never created.

"The Eleventh Marble" (Michael Rivero)(do your search)

Franklin Sanders calls it "The Parable of the Cards" (do your search)

( 52 cards divided among 4 participants [13 each], but the bank demands interest in the form of 14 cards returned by each participant)

This phenomena has also been called "the eleventh round"

I must admit I personally got caught up in this part of the illusion for some years - while missing a larger part of the illusion.

The marbles were stolen in the first place!They were stolen from you and me!

The larger part of the illusion concerns the vesting of the seigniorage.

By default, when the gold was taken from the people and placed in vaults, the federal reserve note became by default an instrument of credit.

Everything you believe you own including your intellectual and physical labor became collateral, but there was no public account to offset the debt.

If you do a search on the net for this phrase: "In commerce, truth is of the essence" you will discover a set of rules that are generally agreed upon - these rules are quite old and predate the formation of the US of A. The rules held true while differences of account were settled in specie money, but when specie money was withdrawn, the game of money converted to the game of "Liar's Poker Money."

The specie money settlement was functioning as a reference standard and served as settlement of account differences - and also functioned as a performance bond.

Everything you believe you own including your intellectual and physical labor became collateral, but there was no public account to offset the debt.

If you do a search on the net for this phrase: "In commerce, truth is of the essence" you will discover a set of rules that are generally agreed upon - these rules are quite old and predate the formation of the US of A. The rules held true while differences of account were settled in specie money, but when specie money was withdrawn, the game of money converted to the game of "Liar's Poker Money."

The specie money settlement was functioning as a reference standard and served as settlement of account differences - and also functioned as a performance bond.

In a theory of “communication money” this performance bond function must be restored; however, the medium of exchange function is separated from the store of value and these two preceding functions are separated from the measure of value.

It is my personal conclusion after much study that in fact, gold was seldom ever the actual medium of exchange; that gold was furnishing a reference standard, and it was functioning in a performance bond role.

The actual medium of exchange has been pieces of paper - and lying (see the Liar's Poker post) - lying about the pieces of paper has been almost the norm. When the lying becomes too blatant and widespread all the paper looses all value and a temporary reversion to actual physical specie coinage exchange takes place.

The real need therefore (IMO) isn't so much redeemability in gold (or silver), but rather mechanisms for discovering lies in commerce and mechanisms for dealing with liars. (Perhaps guillotines). "In commerce, truth is of the essence."

More emanations that result from using a "Liar's Poker" system of money based upon interest bearing hypothecated debt as the model and adding the additional insult that the seigniorage is not properly assigned to the people who give value to the instruments.

# 3: In commerce, truth is sovereign. See Exodus 20:16; Psalm 117:2; John 8:32; II Cor. 13:8. Legal maxim: “To lie is to go against the mind.” Oriental proverb: “Of all that is good, sublimity is supreme.”

The present system is failing due to liars running the money system.(Liar's Poker Money System)

Maxims of Commerce - # 3: In commerce, truth is sovereign.

It is my personal conclusion that the specie money in the past was generally not really the "backing" but was rather functioning as a bond against the banker.

Because of the general perception that the issuance's of money were backed by specie, the banker was forced to make his contracts fair and the so-called "loans" repayable by the so-called "debtor" least the banker suffer a run on his bank.

When I was studying out the LETS system of exchange and related similar efforts, it came to me that the reason for failure was several inter-related causes among which were lack of paid professional administration, lack of good commercially enforceable contracts, and lack of mechanisms for forcing specific performance of contract.

One method of restoring truth in commerce would be to recognize precious metals as a form of savings and to incorporate these savings into the system where they function as performance bonds.

Thus the various promises to create things of value and deliver said value at a time and place in the future (THE MANDRAKE MECHANISM) can be further assured to be accurate emissions (of money) because the promissor is bonded by exposure of liquidation of his savings.

Gary North has been attacking the "Greenbacker" position as advocated by Dr. Ellen Brown, Zarlenga, Bill Still, and others.

My opinion is that Hayek was correct - competition in money systems is needed.

I no longer have any respect for written laws - especially about the money system - because the law writers have relied upon century's old formats and accept what has previously been accepted and is believed to be true.

Only natural law is true... Hypertiger has that much correct.

Money is a communication by means of symbols and contracts that allow humans to rationalize commercial exchange.

Any act of telling lies with money symbols is an act of counterfeiting.

“When I was growing up in Ecuador, I remember being in the marketplace where I saw a man sitting at a table with a pen and paper. He was listening to a customer and was writing away like mad. I remember not understanding what that man was selling. Was he composing a poem on the spot? I couldn't imagine the visibly poor customer wanting a poem. So I asked my parents who told me that he was selling the writing itself; that the customer was illiterate and needed to send a letter and so would pay the man to write the letter. I remember being amazed by this at the time, but then forgot about it pretty quickly. This story comes back to me now that I've come to understand that almost all of us in the world are doing exactly the same thing as those illiterate customers I saw in my youth. We are illiterate and don't even know it. We don't recognize that there is a form of "writing" we hire others to do for us but could learn ourselves. This form of writing is the writing of wealth acknowledgments, and what we call it is money.”

Eric Harris-Braunn: "In 2003 my father gave me two books to read: Interest & Inflation Free Money, by Margrit Kennedy, and The Future of Money by Bernard Leitaer. For me these books were one-way doors. Once I’d stepped through, there was no going back, because suddenly I understood three things: 1) money was a human invention 2) this particular invention is foundational to all human social patterns 3) we can change it, and there-by change our social patterns. Thus, I became open to a huge new possibility."

What I (Levi Philos) have been posting is that MONEY IS A CULTURAL DECISION MAKING MACHINE; IF YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE CULTURE YOU LIVE WITHIN, THEN YOU MUST PARTICIPATE IN REINVENTING MONEY