It was for an Advanced Training Flight, second year cadets that were either cadets that didn't get accepted as cadre or didn't apply for staff. We had two ATFs, one that specialized in Ground Team and one for Color Guard. The GT flight was on a completely different schedule and doing their GT training, and they are all now GTM3 qualified. The Color Guard flight was mostly taught leadership styles and trained to start and lead a color guard. The basic students were only taught from the curriculum.

As long as it doesn't conflict with the encampment's needs, there's nothing wrong with doing "other" along side of it, especially if yo have a lotof people and resources gathered, which is usually the hardest part of any CAP activity.

The issue many wings face with this is having enough adult and cadet staff (cadre)to do something worthwhile without diluting the encampment.

It was for an Advanced Training Flight, second year cadets that were either cadets that didn't get accepted as cadre or didn't apply for staff. We had two ATFs, one that specialized in Ground Team and one for Color Guard. The GT flight was on a completely different schedule and doing their GT training, and they are all now GTM3 qualified. The Color Guard flight was mostly taught leadership styles and trained to start and lead a color guard. The basic students were only taught from the curriculum.

Tracking.

During our staff training, we talked about other wings doing "advanced flights." I didn't hear of any doing that. But as Eclipse said, as long as it doesn't interfere with "actual" Encampment, I see know issue.

So you had a CADET up to 2 AM? And she's supposed to be the person in charge of maintaining standards?Does anybody else here see a "problem"? As in required amount of sleep? It's in the regulation and it's not waiverable.

My understanding of the situation is that there was more work to do than time allowed and to finish up the work of the day and to be prepared for the next day she chose to sacrifice sleep to accomplish her mission. While it’s not in the regulations it’s what she felt she needed to do, again, a personal choice. That being said the commandant quickly rectified the situation as soon as he was aware.

Point here is that there’s plenty of work to do at encampments to justify an SET staff.

My understanding of the situation is that there was more work to do than time allowed and to finish up the work of the day and to be prepared for the next day she chose to sacrifice sleep to accomplish her mission. While it’s not in the regulations it’s what she felt she needed to do, again, a personal choice. That being said the commandant quickly rectified the situation as soon as he was aware.

A choice a cadet should not be allowed to make.

Good on her for the initiative, and let's not kid ourselves, kids these days are up to all hours with homework and other activities, but that doesn't matter - the reg is really clear here as to required sleep, and there should be a mandatedlights out for everyone, respectively, on the schedule, including senior members.

One could also ask where the adults were up until 2am when someone realized she was still up and working. You can't force a cadet to sleep, but you can insure they are in their racks.

These late-night "staff meetings" and similar used to be the norm years ago in my AOR and we kiboshedthat pretty early-on. Used to have whole groups of cadets huddled under desks after lights-out planningthe next day's schedule, etc.

The point is emphasized that if it isn't planned and ready for Day 0, it's not happening. Yes, you have to be flexible, but this is why the planning sessions in advance of the activity are so important.

"You've had 4 months to plan 4 days of activities, 1/2 of which are locked in because of curriculum mandates, logistics, or the flight line, what are you 'planning' now?"

Not every encampment has “racks”, some cadet staff are in private rooms, especially upper level cadet staff. It’s also not unusual for two cadet staff members to share a room.

SET is a little different than most other cadet staff positions as well. Grading, evaluating, senior staff wanting numbers, etc. Maybe it just comes down to time management. In this case she applied for as a team member and was asked to assume the OIC spot. She kicked butt in the position imho, but of course there’s a learning curve.

What I am saying is that she should have known that she is required to get the required minimum hours of sleep.But, the real problem is that the senior leadership did not enforce this rule.So a minor bad on her for staying up trying to fix a problem, but a major hit on her superiors, cadet and senior, who allowed her to stay up.The rules are there for everybody, no exceptions!

I don’t blame senior or cadet staff. She was in a semi private room, was doing what she thought was appropriate to accomplish the mission, the situation was quickly resolved and she learned her mistake. She wasn’t allowed to stay up, they just didn’t know she was. If not for being called out for needing a nap (thanks SkyHornet) it wouldn’t of even been brought up.

That being said, I’ve also been to encampments where cadet staff are allowed to sleep in the “staff” room because senior staff knew they were up after hours. I walked in on that and was shocked. I thought I “caught them sleeping” but it was more like a “why are you bothering” us kinda thing.

We have a little thing at California Wing encampments called "Seeing the Assistant Adjutant". Basically taking a nap.Usually by day 3 or 4 of encampment the long days are starting to show on the cadre, both line and support.So we arrange for the cadre to be able to slip away to get a 1 or 2 hour nap. The results are amazing.The biggest thing is that they are able to think on their feet again. Which is usually the first thing that goes away when you get over tired.In the Air Force aircrew world we called this a Work/Rest Plan.

We have a little thing at California Wing encampments called "Seeing the Assistant Adjutant". Basically taking a nap.Usually by day 3 or 4 of encampment the long days are starting to show on the cadre, both line and support.So we arrange for the cadre to be able to slip away to get a 1 or 2 hour nap. The results are amazing.The biggest thing is that they are able to think on their feet again. Which is usually the first thing that goes away when you get over tired.In the Air Force aircrew world we called this a Work/Rest Plan.

Our Cadet Commander instituted mandatory rest periods; however, that doesn't mean you get sleep. It's a period where you are supposed to be off-duty, not able to be used. But that's about as surefire as any power nap can get.

Anyway, nap time isn't considered a mandatory rest cycle in the pamphlet like lights out rest.

What I am saying is that she should have known that she is required to get the required minimum hours of sleep.But, the real problem is that the senior leadership did not enforce this rule.So a minor bad on her for staying up trying to fix a problem, but a major hit on her superiors, cadet and senior, who allowed her to stay up.The rules are there for everybody, no exceptions!

I don't expect a teenager/cadet to go "No can do, sir. I'm going to bed." Whether they're right or wrong, generally, when you're instructed to 'do-x', you're going to do it.

I would expect them to mention lights out is in XX minutes and let the senior decide how important it is. I've had them do that with me and I usually said Ok, get it done first thing in the AM, after breakfast.

I would expect them to mention lights out is in XX minutes and let the senior decide how important it is. I've had them do that with me and I usually said Ok, get it done first thing in the AM, after breakfast.

I think there’s a a lot of pressure to perform. I know my daughter sees every staff position she’s placed in as a week long interview for the following year. So that being said, a “I’m sorry sir I’m too tired or “I can’t sir, I need my sleep” is probably thought of as exhibiting a certain level of weakness in her mind.