Using earth orbiting satellites, acclaimed researcher David Flynn has studied the high plateau of Bolivia and found previously undiscovered unnatural patterns stretching outward from Lake Titicaca for hundreds of square miles. The geoglyphic works range from arrow straight parallel lines, enormous over lapping perfect circles and rectangles to 'labyrinth like' systems of walls and mounds extending over every feature of the terrain.

_________________
"And surely struggle against him we must in every possible way who would annihilate knowledge and reason and mind, and yet ventures to speak confidently about anything."
Plato, Phaedo

Last edited by nick c on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:thread title changed for posts merger

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

According to Inca legend, Lake Titicaca was revered as the location where the god Viracocha created a race of giants and later, the first humans. The Inca maintained that the giants built Tiahuanaco and also many other cities and structures in the area. However, due to their great evil, Viracocha destroyed the giants in a world flood. This legend is still believed by the local Indian inhabitants to this day.

We'd have to consult either Dwardu Cardona or Dave Talbot on this one, but we must ask if something has been lost in translation here. Are the race of giants real people? Or, are they references to planets? To be honest, it really could be either if arguments by Ted Holden are to believed, that gravity during the Saturnian times was less.

The geoglyphs covering this area also exhibit extreme age. In areas where ice age sediment surrounding hills and mountains has been eroded by rain and wind, patterns carved into the bedrock underneath the sediment has been exposed, suggesting their creation sometime before the last glacial melt near the end of the Pleistocene era, c. 13,000 years ago.

Keep in mind that absolute dates are selected based upon how well they conform to a pre-existing consensus.

Early researchers speculated that Inca and pre-Inca farming techniques produced the anomalous patterns on the ground around Lake Titicaca, especially in the horizontal terracing found surrounding the lake itself. However, the altitude of the Bolivian high plain presents several problems with a farming related explanation for the majority of the geoglyphs in the region.

At an average of 12,500 feet above sea level, most of the shapes and patterns are located in areas that have not been conducive for growing crops for the last 10,000 years. Their creation would have required an immense workforce laboring for hundreds of years in such thin air that altitude sickness was a real danger... literally, a super human effort. Additionally, recent high-resolution satellite images suggest that most of the features are characteristic of religious and ritualistic forms of pre-Incan art. They may even represent a sophisticated yet unknown form of communication.

The Nazca lines in Peru are perhaps one of the closest analogues to the geoglyphs at Titicaca. Both the Nazca lines and the Titicaca geoglyphs seem to embody a system of thought unlike any in modern times. Their exact purpose and method of construction remains unclear. However, many of the geoglyphs of Lake Titicaca were created by whole scale excavation of entire mountainsides at altitudes of over 14,000 feet above sea level where as the Nazca lines were etched superficially into the desert at low altitude near the Pacific coast.

Once you abandon the uniformitarian position that our planet always revolved around the Sun, issues such as these tend to go away. The Saturnian sun was far less bright than our current sun, and the Earth's atmosphere was almost considerably different as a result.

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

This site http://www.officialdisclosure.com/giants.htm has it all.
Giants, aliens, prehistoric civilization and land raised up
4,000 metres. What an excellent run-in to the Mythology
forum. There is just so much we don't know about the Earth's
past and the origins of humanity. My hope is that we can piece
together the past on the Mythology forum.

A painful quest - sure to hurt many. But one that must be
undertaken. Scientific inventions will only serve to magnify
human frailties, unless we understand how these frailties
arose - in the traumatic past.

Mo

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

The race of giants were originally celestial , along with the kings city /earth/mountain , surrounding waters , serpent etc etc. This is another example of localization of myth. Numerous examples can be found of the same motif around the world.
_________________
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"....Ayn Rand

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Posted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Also Peratt has addressed the Nasca lines in one of his papers.
_________________
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"....Ayn Rand

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

I thought I should give you a little support for my statements , so here it is :

EV COCHRONE RESPONDS:

The belief that "there were giants in those days" is very
widespread in nature. Consider the following tradition of the
Pawnee Indians:

"The first men who lived on earth were very large Indians. They
were giants; very big and very strong." (George Grinnell, Pawnee
Hero Stories and Folk-Tales," 1961, p. 354).

According to Pawnee tradition, this race of giants was killed by
the Flood.

How are we to understand such traditions? In my opinion, the key
is provided by the equally widespread tradition that in primeval
times the planets used to live on earth. Here's a representative
example of this theme from South America:

"In days long ago the sun and the moon and all their children
lived on earth...In those days the sun and the moon and everyone
were human beings and lived on this earth. Sun had a son who had
sores all over his body; he was the morning star...He told his
uncle to carry him on his shoulders because he could not walk; he
was covered with sores and had to lie down all the time...One
morning they finally arrived at his father's house...They greeted
one another but then grabbed hold of one another as if to fight.
Morning Star, growing larger than his father and brothers, won
all the fights ... The next morning he bathed and turned into the
handsomest man in the world."

Those familiar with my writings on Mars will recognize here
several archetypal themes: The Morning Star as Mars; the hero
with sores all over his body (Batraz); the lame hero (Samson);
the hero who suddenly assumes a gargantuan form (Batraz, Maui,
Indra, Cuchulainn); the ugly hero who suddenly becomes
transformed into a beautiful being (Batraz, Odysseus). Each of
these widespread themes has clear celestial precedents, all
involving the planet Mars and its escapades in relation to the
other planets participating in the polar configuration. It
stands to reason that the theme of the giants likewise traces to
celestial events, subsequently localized and "euhemerized", so to
speak.

Ev Cochrane

DAVE TALBOTT RESPONDS:

It is my contention that the different "giant" themes can be
traced backwards, and the path will always lead you to
ancient images of CELESTIAL powers. The fabled age of giants
will echo all of the images linked to the age of the gods.
The remote land of the giants will be a faint recollection of
the land of the gods. Huge edifices claimed to have been
built by giants will have their earlier counterpart in the
COSMIC temples, cities and kingdoms built by the gods. Wars
of the giants will be seen as diluted versions of the wars of
the gods, or Clash of the Titans.

Internal consistency is one of the crucial tests of a theory,
and any suggestion that the "age of giants" could refer to a
period of unusually large human beings must be subject to the
consistency test. It is certainly true that around the
world, folk traditions associated various cultural remains
with the activity of giants. They marveled at pyramids and
towers and broken walls of former peoples. Popular Arabic
tradition identifies "giants" as the builders of Middle
Eastern megaliths. The Greeks proclaimed that a generation
of giants had built the great fortifications at Tiryns and
Mycenae. Scattered megaliths across Europe invited the same
idea. Throughout Mesoamerica and South America it was
claimed that the massive remains of earlier cultures had been
constructed by giants. Similar ideas will be found in the
South Pacific.

Well, it is certainly true that if earlier generations were
big enough, then building some of the larger monuments might
have been easier. But if this explanation is entertained,
should we not apply it also to those remarkably similar
instances in which NATURAL features - mountains, gullies,
ridges, canyons, and rivers were identified with the former
activity of giants?

In northern Ireland there is the famous CLOCHAN AN AIFIR, the
"Giant's Causeway". It is constituted by huge hexagonal,
basaltic columns, formed from the cooling of lava, and
reaching as high as 200 feet or so. Native tradition claimed
that these were built by a race of giants as a means of
crossing the Irish Sea. In fact this kind of motif is quite
common and was attached to the natural formation called the
"Bridge of the Gods" on the Columbia River not all that far
from here. So there was not just one natural "bridge" claimed
to have been built by giants or gods.

A good place to start in an exploration of the "giant" theme
would be Greek myth, because it stands in an ambiguous zone
between the more archaic world, in which the gods are
celestial powers, and a later world in which the gods have been
brought down to earth and localized as "great men". The Greek
Gigantes are sons of the earth goddess Gaia. When the god
Ouranos is "castrated" by his son and alter ego Kronos, the
planet Saturn, it is from his blood that the Gigantes arise.
They are not just "large" human-like creatures. They are
towering forms capable of shaking heaven and earth. This
birth of the Gigantes is virtually synchronous with birth of
the goddess Aphrodite from the "foam" of the severed members
of Ouranos. Aphrodite is, of course, the planet Venus.
In Greek literature the Gigantes are directly involved in
battles with the gods. Often they were depicted with
serpent-tails. Their weapons were "mountains" (in truth, the
world mountain itself). And yet, though numerous gods were
drawn into the fray, and the earth reeled under the crashing
of weaponry, it is fascinating to note that it was a so-
called "mortal" warrior-hero, Heracles, who slew the two
leaders of the revolt. But Heracles is, as we have seen,
the echo of an explicitly cosmic figure in the earlier
traditions.

Indeed, the war with the giants is essentially an extension
of the Clash of the Titans. The Greeks regarded the Titans
as "ancestors" of humanity. Their prevalence was synchronous
with the remarkable epoch of Kronos, the planet Saturn.
Kronos himself was the chief of the Titans, all of whom were
sons of Ouranos, as were the Gigantes. At the close of the
Golden Age of Kronos, the Titans fell into discord and fought
with the gods of Olympos. "...And the infinite great sea
moaned terribly and the earth crashed aloud, and the wide sky
resounded as it was shaken, and tall Olympos rocked on its
bases....Now Zeus no longer held in his strength, but here
his heart filled deep with fury, and now he showed his
violence entire and indiscriminately...Out of the sky and off
Olympos he moved flashing his fires incessantly, and the
thunderbolts....while the flames went up to the bright sky
unquenchably, and the blaze and the glare of the thunder and
lightning blinded the eyes of the Titan gods, for all they
were mighty. The wonderful conflagration crushed Chaos, and
to the eyes' seeing and ears' hearing the clamor of it, it
absolutely would have seemed as if Earth and the wide heaven
above her had collided, for such would have been the crash
arising as Earth wrecked and the sky came piling down on top
of her, so vast was the crash heard as the gods collided in
battle."

Dave Talbott

_________________
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"....Ayn Rand

Last edited by Plasmatic MnemoHistory on Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

This conversation is lacking in sufficient information to draw conclusions, IMO. The problem is the huge mess within the field of anthropology. There have been so many scandals brushed beneath the rug that you really can't trust virtually any consensus within that field. And so, ultimately, we do not know whether or not to trust the various past claims of gigantic human bones that have been discovered and subsequently filed away in the basement of some museum to never be seen again.

It's very frustrating.

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

plnbz wrote:
This conversation is lacking in sufficient information to draw conclusions, IMO. The problem is the huge mess within the field of anthropology. There have been so many scandals brushed beneath the rug that you really can't trust virtually any consensus within that field. And so, ultimately, we do not know whether or not to trust the various past claims of gigantic human bones that have been discovered and subsequently filed away in the basement of some museum to never be seen again.

I don't remember how I got across this but I was interested because of the Tiahuanacu bit. But when I saw the pictures, I thought maybe it would also be interesting in relation to Mars. I thought I saw some similarities and differences, but was not sure. Confused
I would like to discuss the Tiahuanacu-bit in the upcoming Myth-section, but maybe the pictures and the supposed evidence ccould be discussed here?
Do some pictures show discharge evidence? Or is there a glacial effect present?
Can there be other explanations to these features?
_________________
"And surely struggle against him we must in every possible way who would annihilate knowledge and reason and mind, and yet ventures to speak confidently about anything."
Plato, Phaedo

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Tiahuanaco is a mystery, indeed!
While mythological interpretations are interesting, that is for another time.
There is certainly enough "hard" information available to draw some interesting conclusions.
Tiahuanaco (aka Tiwanaku) is almost 13000 ft above sea level, near Lake Titicaca.
The megalithic city contains stones weighing up to 100 tons which were quarried and transported from many miles away. The remains of agricultural terraces that used to feed the city, rise above the city to altitudes of over 15000 ft. Crops, enough to sustain a city could not be grown there today.
Remains of strand lines, the former shore of Lake Titicaca, indicate that the city was once on the waters edge and that the Lake's surface was some 90' higher, however, the strand lines are tilted and in other areas it is over 300' higher than the present level.

Velikovsky, 'Earth In Upheaval' wrote:
As long ago as 1875, Alexander Agassiz demonstrated the existence of a marine crustaceous fauna in Lake Titicaca.

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I would like to sell to you
Notice how the Wikpedia entry skirts around all the really interesting factual tidbits about the Tiahuanaco. This irrational disregard for obvious catastrophic evidence permeates virtually every discipline of mainstream science. Remember Velikovsky's admonition, it is only permissible to talk about catastrophes if we can safely remove them in time or space...an extinction event 60 million years ago, a solar system is destroyed hundreds of light years away, our Sun will shine steadily yet, for millions of more years, etc.
Don't worry, be happy!
We continually need assurances of safety and stability.
Clearly this entire area is a uniformitarian's worst nightmare.
There is interesting commentary on Tiahuanaco in 'Earth In Upheaval,' though written over 52 years ago still applies today. IMHOP it is the explanation that best fits the facts.

Velikovsky, 'Earth In Upheaval', p84 wrote:
Sometime in the remote past the entire Altiplano with its lakes rose from the bottom of the ocean. At some other time point a city was built there and terraces were laid out on the elevation around it; then in another disturbance the mountains were thrust up and the area became uninhabitable.

Now what kind of conditions could create the forces necessary to accomplish that?

Nick

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Velikovsky, 'Earth In Upheaval', p84 wrote:
Sometime in the remote past the entire Altiplano with its lakes rose from the bottom of the ocean. At some other time point a city was built there and terraces were laid out on the elevation around it; then in another disturbance the mountains were thrust up and the area became uninhabitable.

Now what kind of conditions could create the forces necessary to accomplish that?

Nick

Perhaps the oceans were taken to the mountains !
If the oceans were gouged out and the material thrown high into
the air, then that would explain the oceanic material in the
mountains. Not that I don't subscribe to the mountains being
formed electrically and being raised in the process. It's all
pretty amazing.
Mo

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

I have read somewhere that Tibetan legends tell of their country being at sea level with beaches etc. in the dim past...
_________________
"All you need is ignorance and confidence - then success is assured." - Mark Twain

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Of course, that doesn't necessarily make it so. Do we know whether the chains of pits in the images were "man-made" or naturally formed somehow? Do they conform with sinkholes, or mines, none-of-the-above, something else?

~Michael Gmirkin

Addendum / correction: Actually, I think I was in error on this one (as someone pointed out to me privately). I think the features are "raised" rather than "recessed." IE, straight hills and mounds, rather than straight troughs and crater chains. The 2D image is a bit hard to "read" in 3D. Google Earth does a better job, since you can tilt it, as well as panning & scanning.
_________________
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"Common sense is an uncommon virtue" ~Unknown attribution

Last edited by mgmirkin on Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

(A bit to the East... Includes pointer for region alluded to in original post.)A bit East

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
_________________
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"Common sense is an uncommon virtue" ~Unknown attribution

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
_________________
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"Common sense is an uncommon virtue" ~Unknown attribution

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

Somewhere in that area is a zone covered full of perfectly-round crater looking forms that reminded me of that area along the U.S. eastern seaboard ... a swampy area I think it was, in North or South Carolina. I forget what the Carolina area was called but there was a thread or a series of posts about it a while back.

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad