Heh, rifle CCW?

Anyone know what the laws are regarding concealed carry of a RIFLE? Friend of mine wants to carry an AK-47 with a drum in a guitar case, to accompany his Bulgarian Makarov. Yeah, seriously. :D Assuming he has a CCW, I'm curious if LEOs or knowledgeable 'normal' people know the legality of this, or what hoops he might have to jump through to make it happen. I'm in Washington state, if that makes a big difference. Thanks a lot.

I recall when I lived in Texas that you didn't need any license to walk down the street with a shotgun or rifle in hand as long as it was in plain view. That's changed, no doubt.

Kaylee

January 4, 2003, 12:59 PM

Hrmm.. legally, I reckon it depends on the state. Idaho just says "concealed weapon" which I presume could mean anything from a pocketknife to an M4 or AK or whatnot, if you could keep it concealed.

Practically, I'd say it depended on the cop. And cops that would grin and nod at the pistol might be a little bit.... curious as to why he's regularly toting a rifle. Officer discretion can be unpleasant as well as happy sometimes, I think.

And finally..... I'd think if your buddy is planning trips where he thinks 75 rounds of 7.62x39 on his person are in order... it might be time to rearrange his dayplanner.

-K

Steve Smith

January 4, 2003, 01:06 PM

I've thought about the same thing. It will come down to your state's laws and how important it is to you...not necessarily in that order.

CleverNickname

January 4, 2003, 01:14 PM

I recall when I lived in Texas that you didn't need any license to walk down the street with a shotgun or rifle in hand as long as it was in plain view.

I live in Washington and recently went to get my ccw. It says on the card "license to carry concealed pistol".

Jeff

VG

October 15, 2003, 06:31 AM

Anyone know what the laws are regarding concealed carry of a RIFLE? Friend of mine wants to carry an AK-47 with a drum in a guitar case, to accompany his Bulgarian Makarov. Yeah, seriously. Assuming he has a CCW, I'm curious if LEOs or knowledgeable 'normal' people know the legality of this, or what hoops he might have to jump through to make it happen. I'm in Washington state, if that makes a big difference. Thanks a lot.

It depends on the laws in that state. You might try packing.org. Plan on not being the most welcome customer at Burger King.

MuzzleBlast

October 15, 2003, 08:25 AM

In Arkansas it is perfectly legal to walk around with a long gun. But you WILL draw attention.

Master Blaster

October 15, 2003, 08:41 AM

Sounds like a good way to get tackled by the swat team.

Folks like to use those AKs to shoot up businesses and schools it seems.

Heck maybe he could help get the Assault weapon ban permanently reinstituted.

Concealed carry is to defend your life, not to play commando.

If he has to use it how many innocents will he hit when he sprays that 75 rounds on a busy street, or even an empty one??

Now if he wants to keep it in his trunk to respond to a breakin or a riot or an armed assault by Osama thats a different story.
Carring a guitar case with an AK everywhere he goes is a bit over the top.

jrhead75

October 15, 2003, 09:06 AM

I live in Washington too. "It's a License to Carry a Concealed Pistol" these days. When I got my first one way back when, it was called a "Concealed Weapon Permit". I don't know what law changes went with the name change (other than it's now "shall issue"). Guess I'll have to do some research.

I had a friend who lived and worked in rough neighborhoods in Philly.
He wanted to build one of the pistol AR-15 pistols from a parts kit to use as his CCW.

Tamara

October 15, 2003, 09:56 AM

Friend of mine wants to carry an AK-47 with a drum in a guitar case,

Y'know, even if there were absolutely no laws regarding how a weapon may be carried or what types of weapons you could tote, there is no way I'd lug a 10+ pound rifle around everywhere I went. In the trunk of my car? Maybe. Drag it everywhere in a guitar case? Pointless. Out of curiousity, what scenario does he envision that would give him time to set the guitar case down, open it, retrieve his gat, and make use of it?

geekWithA.45

October 15, 2003, 09:58 AM

He wanted to build one of the pistol AR-15 pistols from a parts kit to use as his CCW.

Good luck finding a holster and hiding that thing.

TrapperReady

October 15, 2003, 10:05 AM

Sounds like your friend has been watching too many Robert Rodriguez films.

mechanic66

October 15, 2003, 10:50 AM

I recall when I lived in Texas that you didn't need any license to walk down the street with a shotgun or rifle in hand as long as it was in plain view. That's changed, no doubt.

No you can still wander around with a long gun, nothing illegal about it EXCEPT you could still be arrested for Disorderly Conduct if carrying a long gun around agitated people. Which it probably would unless you were out in the country.

Futo Inu

October 15, 2003, 10:59 AM

In my state, CCW is limited to a "handgun" of "45 caliber" or less. So, you could carry a TC Encore in .45-70, but not a 50AE Desert Eagle, I guess.

Joe Demko

October 15, 2003, 11:24 AM

Relax everybody. Guns in musical instrument cases do have a highish kewel factor. The thing is, kewel has a a significant novelty component. He might actually lug it about for a day or two. Then when the novelty wore off and that gun wasn't getting any lighter, it would start being left in the car. Eventually, I foresee it just being left home.
What nobody has addressed is that if you are seen toting this guitar case around with you all the time, sooner or later somebody is going to ask you to play. My, my, what an awkward moment, especially at work or school. Also, you are just about bound to run into real, live guitar players who are curious and would like to see your guitar. At best, you are going to look like a pathologically secretive weirdo when you tell them "no." All in all, this whole idea has more of "wow'em at the gun club" shine to it than any real practicality.

QuarterBoreGunner

October 15, 2003, 12:05 PM

Before the California Department of Justice standardized the paperwork process for CCWs in 1999, the issuing agencies were a little lax in the details regarding range qualifying. At the time I was managing an indoor range; we were also the agency that ran the range qual portion of the CCW process- if you had or were in the process of receiving your CCW you had to pass our course-of-fire. Well, the owner of the range had a CCW and just for sheer cussedness added a new firearm on his permit when it was reissued (in California, you have to qualify with the firearm you are going to be carrying, up to four allowed- if you’re nailed carrying anything not on your permit, it can be revoked). He even put himself through the range shoot.

His new firearm? A pistol gripped Remington 870. He used to keep it in his truck when he was transporting the Class III stuff for the local PDs.

Good times.

jdege

October 15, 2003, 12:23 PM

In Minnesota, the permit is called a "Permit to Carry a Pistol".

And the statutes that define and describe the permit don't say anything at all about long guns.

But over in the other statute that forbids carry of long guns in public, there is a list of exceptions. And having a handgun permit is one of them.

You have to read all of the law, case as well as statute. And in many cases the administrative rules, as well.

Sunray

October 15, 2003, 12:27 PM

What's he expecting? A rifle is not exactly a defensive firearm.

BerettaNut92

October 15, 2003, 12:28 PM

I wouldn't mind an MP5K-PDW.

QuarterBoreGunner

October 15, 2003, 12:34 PM

In California, the official document is a “License to Carry Concealed Pistol, Revolver or Other Firearm Within the State of California”… this being the odd loophole in the system.

AJ Dual

October 15, 2003, 12:53 PM

I wouldn't mind an MP5K-PDW.

Right on! With the shoulder-rig & lanyard that automatically extends and locks the Choate stock! :D

Now that's "tactical" even without carbon fiber, IMO...

Hmm.

If I could get a good gunsmith to make an AR-15 style bolt-release that could be operated one-handed for my Kel-Tec Sub-9, I think you'd have a dandy poor-man's version of the MP5K system.

Safety off, bolt locked and retracted, full mag in the grip, and folded. Raise it up, while folding the barrel down with your support hand, and as it closes, thumb the added bolt release. Very, very, mall-ninja.

It would allways be a two-handed rig though, unlike the MP5K, since the stock and reciever are one part, and it's the barrel and breech that folds instead. Also, if you release the bolt and it strips a round before you get the barrel closed, you'll either have the embarrasment of a 9mm round tumbling out the front of the action onto the ground, or worse, a very interesting jam on your hands.

BerettaNut92

October 15, 2003, 01:28 PM

QBG, I only OWN two pistols...can I have my Benelli listed?!?!?!?!? :cool: :D :cool: :evil: :cool:

Too bad I can't list a stupid fixed blade knife :rolleyes:

atek3

October 15, 2003, 04:04 PM

Folks like to use those AKs to shoot up businesses and schools it seems.
So?

Heck maybe he could help get the Assault weapon ban permanently reinstituted.
further revealing the sham of "gun rights" in this country

Concealed carry is to defend your life, not to play commando.
***, if he was in rhodesia or compton, I might think an ak in a guitar case is "just what the doctor ordered", but come on, who are you to judge.

If he has to use it how many innocents will he hit when he sprays that 75 rounds on a busy street, or even an empty one??
Wahhh, sprayfiring from the hip, evil baby killers.
Seriously man, AK's aren't MOA accurate, but under 200 yards with wolf ammo you could put all 75 rds. onto a human silouette. So I think the threat of "spraying them on a busy street" is likely a bit of "projection"

Sorry if i come off really harsh in this post. We should really hang out sometime, I'm not a jerk. skunk can vouch :)

atek3

QuarterBoreGunner

October 15, 2003, 04:07 PM

Skunk- heh, well I guess you could try and see what happens. My CCW was issued by the county sheriff’s office; they require during the range qualification that you draw from the holster which you are going to be carrying regularly (which is why I couldn’t get my NAA .32 Guardian on my permit, I didn’t have a holster for it. I was just going to put it into a pocket.)

I’d love to see the holster for the Benelli. Perhaps some sort of ‘Mad Max’ thigh drop-rig. Might make scoring the B27 a little more challenging as well.

:D

Kaylee

October 15, 2003, 04:19 PM

I dunno... that AR pistol is looking mighty cool... especially in a necked up bullet that won't care quite so much that it's being sent out a 6" or so barrel. :D

-K

Oleg Volk

October 15, 2003, 04:30 PM

If he has to use it how many innocents will he hit when he sprays that 75 rounds on a busy street, or even an empty one??

Rifles would case fewer problems for bystanders, as they are more accurate. And the purpose of carrying a rifle would be to have range, accuracy and pnetration of cover for atypical defensive situations (i.e. rampager at a vantage point or multiple attackers).

Dionysusigma

October 15, 2003, 07:48 PM

In my state, CCW is limited to a "handgun" of "45 caliber" or less. So, you could carry a TC Encore in .45-70, but not a 50AE Desert Eagle, I guess. Isn't there also a regulation for OK that limits overall length? A friend of mine said 11", but I've not been able to confirm this...:confused:

Tamara

October 15, 2003, 11:26 PM

Rifles would case fewer problems for bystanders, as they are more accurate. And the purpose of carrying a rifle would be to have range, accuracy and pnetration of cover for atypical defensive situations (i.e. rampager at a vantage point or multiple attackers).

So this makes sense to you? Yes, it may cause fewer problems for bystanders in that 1-in-1,000,000,000 shootout across the mall parking lot, but I bet it'll cause a lot more problems for bystanders in those many-times-a-day instances where he bruises their shins with his Concealed Commando Case...

I ain't sayin' he don't have the right to do it, but I also ain't sayin' I don't have the right to point and laugh and make snickering "Rambo commando" jokes... :uhoh:

tex_n_cal

October 16, 2003, 12:34 AM

Hmmm...how about an XP100 Repeater in a shoulder holster:evil:

seriously, unless the guy could readily explain to the police why he was so heavily armed (suitcase full of legal cash) I think he's in trouble most anywhere.

CaesarI

October 16, 2003, 04:26 AM

As has been mentioned... 10lbs of gun shouldn't, and won't get carried much. Knock yourself out.
If he lived in Compton, or Zimbabwe... don't ask permission. Oh, and bring all your friends with guitar cases. :D (shameless movie reference)

-Morgan

Aikibiker

October 16, 2003, 05:30 AM

With a CCW it would be legal in Florida. Sounds like a giant hastle to me though. I doubt he would do it more then a few times. If he keeps at it for a couple months though his arms are gonna be pretty strong.

Master Blaster

October 16, 2003, 08:23 AM

Well I see that some folks dont agree with my points as to why AK carry is a bad idea.

I have an SAR-1 with a sling myself and I am not against using one for self defense, but it would be in a SHTF situation or in a riot where I am defending a fixed location or if I had to go out on patrol to get milk for the kids, or I knew or suspected that the bad guys would be carring heavy hardware. In these situations I want it visible on a sling for fast access.

For normal everyday carry the idea is self defense, and concealment. I like the tactical advantage of having a weapon concealed, but easy to access in an inconspicuous manner. An AK in a guitar case has serious tactical disadvantages for a normal CCW situation.

Heres how I see a typical defense situation Walking down the street and two muggers approach, I stick my hand in my pocket and draw a gun bang bang, muggers down, they never saw it coming. Or they take me unawares and say give me you wallet I put hand in pocket to comply and come up with a firing 9mm Surprise.!!!!

Your friend, places guitar case on ground undoes all four latches raises lid, hmmmmmm, the mugger see and relieve him of the AK, or they knock him to the ground and take his guitar so they can sell it for crack.

To quickly access it in a surprise situation he would need to carry it slung, so then the muggers leave him alone, but lets face it in most cities in the US he would find himself facing the SWAT team cause it would alarm the sheeple.

Thats reality.

As far as accuracy and safety, folks here are always saying that overpenetration is a huge problem, with PISTOL bullets. The AK round is fmj (even the soft and hollow points dont expand often) and 2400 fps, if he makes a hit on his first shot and fires no more, the bullet will go through the perp and be traveling fast enough to kill a child or an old lady 50 yards away.

Devonai

October 16, 2003, 11:12 AM

If your friend really wants such high volume, why not get a Glock 17? With the +2,+3, or +5 magazine extensions available at Glockmeister (http://www.glockmeister.com), he could carry as many as 23 rounds just in the pistol itself. With a Blackhawk triple mag pouch he easily carry a total of 89 rounds. Then he could be his own fire team.

I happen to be quite happy with two seventeen round mags plus one in the chamber, for a total of 35 rounds.

atek3

October 16, 2003, 11:22 AM

here here, I agree w/ pretty much all that is being said.
However, instead of AK in a guitar case, I'd recommend an SMLE with the barrel cut down to 18", stock replaced with a light synthetic stock, and placed into a smaller case. It wouldn't be such a chore to lug around and if the SHTF while he was out for milk, he could lay down 303 brit out to 300 yds. Plus if the boys in blue decided to screw with him, all they could seize is a junky 125 dollar milsurp rifle instead of an AK + drum combo which is an autoforfeit.

atek3

blfuller

October 16, 2003, 04:05 PM

You would not need a permit to carry them in the guitar case. As long as you are not carrying either one on your person. It would be the same as taking your pistol to the range in a range bag or your rifle in a rifle case. The guitar case has been used to cut down on attention. Just make sure they are unloaded. Remember the Thompson SMG and violin cases? I believe Auto Ordnance still makes the violin carry case for the Thompson.

Erik Jensen

October 16, 2003, 04:15 PM

I actually asked my CCW instructor about this, just for fun. you see, during our long, cold Michigan winters, i wear a trench coat. either an army issue wool gabardine, or a leather one. I also plan on getting a Garand soon. and, coincidentally, I noticed that Beretta made folding stocks that fit a Garand. so, my next thought was "hey! with a folding stock and the proper holster, I could carry a Rifle, .30 cal, M1 under my trench, and no-one would be the wiser!"

unfortunately, in michigan it is a "concealed pistols licence"

(but can you imagine the look on the "perp"'s face when you pull a .30-06 on him?? :what: :what: priceless.)