Now they want use to dry up our pension savings.

An example how stupid the agencies that determine policies in this country are. Now IBEC is proposing to let people to withdraw their AVCs so that it will be used to generate profits for their members. Crazy, crazy idea. Absolute greed.

Are you in favour of unions or not? Do you think all workers should be unionised? That contract / freelance workers should all be in a union?
Or that there should be some attempt to limit freelance/contract work and put it on a more stable footing, because it is more difficult to offer such workers the protection offered more long term or stable workers?

Or do you hate unions, and wish that they would fekk off and disappear ? Leaving all workers equally unprotected, but at least with equality of misery...

Some strawman there ... we have gone from me pointing out Unions have been complicit in the removal of rights of a certain (growing) sector of the economy ... to you asking if I hate unions ..... thats some paranoid leap ....and for the record I don't

But I do think , unions are more interested in trying to preserve the status quo for PS workers and access to cushy quango jobs than facing up to the very real problems in the private sector .... so your response and attitude ( see reference to ladder pulling) suprises me not one jot and reflects a certain mindset in my experience , very common in the PS

Still , if the union movement is even prepared to sacrifice its young an the alter of the long established, maintaining all those allowances , i guess Im naive to expect anything approaching sympathy or activity for anything or anyone thats "Private sector"

Now a question for you .... do you think its OK to spend hundreds of millions in allowances and increments to those on over 50,000 in the PS whilst carers allowances are cut ? because THAT is the choice as per the OP

In all the debate provoked by my OP, I'm a little surprised that noone has commented on my suggestion that we can increase corporation tax somewhat. This has been a sacred cow in Ireland for some time.

Its also hilarious to read the indo this morning.....about councillors getting promoted from Councils to the Dail.....and getting gratuities for vacating their council seats.

Its my firm belief that this type of "ah shure its only taxpayers money" mentality pervades the Public Sector but its a shame in this day and age of computerisation that the data coming from our government is extremely hard to get in terms of figuring out how much the wastage is. I suspect its more than nothing but not as bad as my worst nightmare, but its hardly a basis on which to make any firm conclusions.

In all the debate provoked by my OP, I'm a little surprised that noone has commented on my suggestion that we can increase corporation tax somewhat. This has been a sacred cow in Ireland for some time.

I agree with you .... It could easily be raised to 14-15 %

Originally Posted by ChickenBiryani

Its also hilarious to read the indo this morning.....about councillors getting promoted from Councils to the Dail.....and getting gratuities for vacating their council seats.

Hilarious wouldn't be my first description ...... infuriated nauseated and disgusted would be closer ..4 years and 2 Governments on , No change ( in fact we now have a Minister intent on slowing reform) in how the state lavishes money on itself

Originally Posted by ChickenBiryani

Its my firm belief that this type of "ah shure its only taxpayers money" mentality pervades the Public Sector but its a shame in this day and age of computerisation that the data coming from our government is extremely hard to get in terms of figuring out how much the wastage is. I suspect its more than nothing but not as bad as my worst nightmare, but its hardly a basis on which to make any firm conclusions.

According to Newstalk this morning - credit card style driving liscences have been delayed by discussions, Unions are kicking up because of the reduced workload their introduction would bring .......
According to Saturdays Irish times ... Howlin is saying its too late to make any substantial savings on allowances in 2012,(what a suprise!!!!) however savings in the region of 5% could be made in 2013 .....so thats 5 years after the financial crisis they MAY manage savings of 5 %
Financial crisis , what financial crisis???

Hilarious wouldn't be my first description ...... infuriated nauseated and disgusted would be closer ..4 years and 2 Governments on , No change ( in fact we now have a Minister intent on slowing reform) in how the state lavishes money on itself

According to Newstalk this morning - credit card style driving liscences have been delayed by discussions, Unions are kicking up because of the reduced workload their introduction would bring .......
According to Saturdays Irish times ... Howlin is saying its too late to make any substantial savings on allowances in 2012,(what a suprise!!!!) however savings in the region of 5% could be made in 2013 .....so thats 5 years after the financial crisis they MAY manage savings of 5 %
Financial crisis , what financial crisis???

But as I said previously with an economic council consisting of 3 schoolteachers and a trade union official you can bet your bottom dollar that reform = what we have we hold.

As for the Corporation Tax rate - yes it could go to 14 or 15% and I dont think it would make a huge difference (either in increased revenue or in inward investment). The big risk however is that the overseas companies, while they wouldnt worry about the 14% would wonder where it might end.

After all they would be making investment decisions influenced by a government whose very clear policy is that public servants pay, pensions and pay rises take precedence over everything else. The ps have first call onmoney here and the rest can make do with whatever is left over.

Are you in favour of unions or not? Do you think all workers should be unionised? That contract / freelance workers should all be in a union?
Or that there should be some attempt to limit freelance/contract work and put it on a more stable footing, because it is more difficult to offer such workers the protection offered more long term or stable workers?

Or do you hate unions, and wish that they would fekk off and disappear ? Leaving all workers equally unprotected, but at least with equality of misery...

The question "are you in favour of unions or not" is downright silly. Its like asking "are you in favour of newspapers or not"

And no I dont think all workers should be unionised. If they opt not to join that is their choice. Blaming employers/IBEC/INM/Uncle Tom Cobley and all doesnt wash. The reason the overwhelming majority of private sector employees have no truck with unions is because unions have utterly failed to convince them that they are worth joining.

They are perceived as belonging to another era - england circa 1973. And those who hanker after that era and still behave as if we were in 1973 are the ones who join unions. And where do they work? We all know the anser to that.

But you tell me - do you believe that every employee should have the right not tojoin a union? Thatthe effective closed shop in the ps is wrong?

And why wont Jack and the rest of the beards not give reall free choice? Is it because Jack and the beards know better what is good for individuals than the individuals themselves?

And dont tell me they have free choice in the ps. I can give you many examples of people forced to join up.

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