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I used to really like crossovers, but the frequency and increasing number of tie-ins/issues have me really disinterested these last couple years.

I remember being so excited for Infinite Crisis since it was a universe wide crossover which DC didn't do every year back then. Even though I didn't completely hate Flashpoint, I wouldn't mind a year or 2 of stories before the next earth shattering crossover.

How about just telling good stories instead of any of the above? That's the model that worked for YEARS.

Company-wide event crossovers were something that happened like once a decade - they were a HUGE deal. And new costumes or reboots even less often.

ummm... And Flashpoint existed solely to reboot DC and create a bunch of costumes fans hate....

I said I haven't read them...I just said the concept sounded good. Anyway, I always thought crossovers were cool. If they last for many, many issues they can get tiring. The ones I always liked were 1 book crossovers or the mini series (5-7 issues).

"Good stories" is pretty subjective. I read a bunch of "must read" comics and thought they were just terrible.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

I remember being so excited for Infinite Crisis since it was a universe wide crossover which DC didn't do every year back then. Even though I didn't completely hate Flashpoint, I wouldn't mind a year or 2 of stories before the next earth shattering crossover.

Yeah, me too.
And I really didn't hate that one.
A lot of the stuff it spawned sucked, but I thought Infinite Crisis itself was pretty good.

6 issues here - TPB that may or may not lead up to event
6 issues there - TBP with side stories that happen during the major event

That being said, I don't mind the X-Men events, Green Lantern events or DC major events, as the build up on those books are usually much better done. With mutants being reduced down to 200 members, I'd expect lots of shakeups. The Green Lantern Corps having all these new Lanterns to worry about also makes those titles very uneven ground.

"Good stories" is pretty subjective. I read a bunch of "must read" comics and thought they were just terrible.

Right, but the same goes for a crossover. They can be good or bad - but the problem is they drag other books into them, and they alter what the individual books writers planned to do. I much prefer to let each individual book succeed or fail on its own merits.

I miss the old days. Where DC would give us a JLA/JSA crossover once a year, but it was rare to have a big company-wide event. Like when CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS came out, it was like the biggest deal EVER. Even before the ramifications of major players dying, it still felt like this HUGE event that was special. And then it was years again until the next big event - then they started coming faster and faster.

And Marvel used to do their big crossovers in the summer annuals. They'd have a story that might affect 10-15 books, but it was contained ONLY in the annuals, so it didn't hurt the individual books.

Last edited by BCI Guy; September 15, 2011 at 08:35pm.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

Right, but the same goes for a crossover. They can be good or bad - but the problem is they drag other books into them, and they alter what the individual books writers planned to do. I much prefer to let each individual book succeed or fail on its own merits.

I miss the old days. Where DC would give us a JLA/JSA crossover once a year,

I think will get that. It just maybe a while. What is known is that:1. there will be a JSA book. 2. They will be on Earth-2. So in that aspect it will be like the crossovers before crisis on infinate earths.

Right, but the same goes for a crossover. They can be good or bad - but the problem is they drag other books into them, and they alter what the individual books writers planned to do. I much prefer to let each individual book succeed or fail on its own merits.

Oh, that's true. I've never been a fan of the crossovers that spill into LOTS of comics. That's always been a nightmare to figure out which book is next in the series and it screws with current story lines. I love the self contained cross overs.

I mean, it's okay when other comics briefly mention some story events...but when they take control over the story of other comics...it's annoying.

Take part in Illumina Day! Let people know who she is and help get her in MOTUC.

I think will get that. It just maybe a while. What is known is that:1. there will be a JSA book. 2. They will be on Earth-2. So in that aspect it will be like the crossovers before crisis on infinate earths.

We just don't know when the book is coming out.

Right, but that wasn't my point...I was just using that as an example of how few "events" there used to be. Because of that the JLA/JSA annual crossover was a big deal. Now it would be a small side note next to the next "earth shattering" crossover.

My point is I don;t see them going back to the old model. We'll just get 3 massive DCnU crossovers every year - just like before the reboot.

Originally Posted by Darkspecter

Oh, that's true. I've never been a fan of the crossovers that spill into LOTS of comics. That's always been a nightmare to figure out which book is next in the series and it screws with current story lines. I love the self contained cross overs.

I mean, it's okay when other comics briefly mention some story events...but when they take control over the story of other comics...it's annoying.

Exactly. And even when they don;t actually drag into another book, they still often affect it - because it limits what the writers of every book can do.

Its like when DC finally wised up and gave Justice League to Dwayne McDuffie. But then with all the events going on, every story he wanted to write had to be drastically altered AND he ended up getting stuck with an entire roster that he didn't want.

Last edited by BCI Guy; September 15, 2011 at 09:46pm.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

So far, the post-Crisis DC reboots of the 80's were much better in terms of both quality & being new reader friendly than what the New 52 has delivered in its first 2 weeks. While I never thought this recent relaunch was going to bring in more than a few new readers to comics, I thought it could at least be good for DC's sales(maybe sponge off some of Marvel's readers along with those who don't read any superhero comics). Seeing as how some of these books are difficult for me to get into(I've been reading DC comic since I could read and am pretty well informed on even the franchises I don't read) as well as the fact that so many of the decisions seem either poorly thought out(both in terms of costume designs stuck in the 90's, creative teams unready for "prime time", and the uneven mix of old & new continuity) or made by the seat of their pants, I'm expecting DC might be in worse shape at the end of 2012 than they were in 2010. I hope I'm wrong and I haven't given up all hope yet, but I'm getting very nervous.

Right, but that wasn't my point...I was just using that as an example of how few "events" there used to be. Because of that the JLA/JSA annual crossover was a big deal. Now it would be a small side note next to the next "earth shattering" crossover.

My point is I don;t see them going back to the old model. We'll just get 3 massive DCnU crossovers every year - just like before the reboot.

So far, the post-Crisis DC reboots of the 80's were much better in terms of both quality & being new reader friendly than what the New 52 has delivered in its first 2 weeks.

Absolutely. And they had top creators at the tops of their games working on the books - and it was clear that a lot of time and planning went into it.

The new DCnU was clearly a scramble - lots of editorial mandated content, and writers and artists who were brought in because they could meet the hurried deadlines. Unfortunately that's resulted in a lot of mediocre comics.

Can someone fill me in on what happened in this book? It was all sold out before I could read it? Thanks.

In a nutshell:

We are introduced to a new villain, The Mirror, whose MO is he hunts down and kills people he believes should have already died. (Barbara Gordon is on that list.)

We see Batgirl take down a gang of serial killers on her first case since getting the use of her legs back. We aren't told how Batgirl is walking again. We are told by Barbara it was a miracle, and them the subject is glossed over and saved for a later issue.

We see Barbara living with Jim Gordon, but by the end of the issue she's moved out and has a roommate. This version of Barbara doesn't have the deep pockets that Oracle had, so she shares her new place with a roommate who doesn't know she's Batgirl.

The Mirror attacks again, this time in a hospital, killing a guard and cop on the way to his intended victim: the leader of the serial-killer gang (who is in the hospital because Batgirl slashed his hand with a batarang). Because Batgirl routes all her dad's texts to her phone, she gets an alert of the attack and unveils a cool new Batgirl cycle.

Batgirl gets to the hospital in time to save a cop The Mirror is about to kill, but when the villain turns the gun on Barbara, she freezes in fear -- presumably because of PTSD. The villain acts swiftly, throwing his victim out the window as Batgirl watches, frozen. The cop screams at Batgirl for letting him kill the maan, and The Mirror turns to leave as Batgirl thinks "What have I done?!".

The end.

It's a good comic. Solid action with good characters and themes. I hope you enjoy it!

SUPERBOY: I liked this a lot more than I expected. I'm not a big Lobdell fan, but I thought this was a very solid set-up - and one that would actually appeal to a new reader. You don't have to know who Rose Wilson or Caitlin Fairchild are, but for long-time readers, it'll be interesting to watch their paths. Art by RB Silva was quite nice. He strikes me as someone still learning what they're doing, but has the potential to be very good. Although I wouldn't mind if Eric Canete drew the whole book instead of just the cover.

SUPERBOY: I liked this a lot more than I expected. I'm not a big Lobdell fan, but I thought this was a very solid set-up - and one that would actually appeal to a new reader. You don't have to know who Rose Wilson or Caitlin Fairchild are, but for long-time readers, it'll be interesting to watch their paths. Art by RB Silva was quite nice. He strikes me as someone still learning what they're doing, but has the potential to be very good. Although I wouldn't mind if Eric Canete drew the whole book instead of just the cover.

Pretty sure. She looks just like the pre-transformed version with the hair and glasses. Similar academic background. And on Page 6, when she opens the door, the computer responds with "Identified, Dr. Cait--"

More books.

SUICIDE SQUAD: Hated this. Dull story, no characters to care about. Ugly art with worse costume redesigns. And the switch in inkers was so drastic it looked like the book was drawn by 2 different people. And I hate, hate, hate what they've done to Waller. As a HUGE fan of the Ostrander run (and JLU), Amanda Waller is one of my favorite characters in DC. Her size and physical presence is part of what made her "The Wall". Was DC worried that not enough boys were ****ing off to the character, so they had to make her hot?

GRIFTER: How about if instead of a merc, he really is a grifter? Wouldn't that be awesome, because, y'know, that's his name! His name is Grifter, and he's a grifter. Genius reinterpretation of the character! It kinda sucked. Horrid dialogue, unrecognizable lead character, vague story. I have no idea why anyone would be bothered to read issue #2.

Last edited by BCI Guy; September 16, 2011 at 01:51pm.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost

I said I haven't read them...I just said the concept sounded good. Anyway, I always thought crossovers were cool. If they last for many, many issues they can get tiring. The ones I always liked were 1 book crossovers or the mini series (5-7 issues).

"Good stories" is pretty subjective. I read a bunch of "must read" comics and thought they were just terrible.

It's the point we sometimes bring up, I have seen movies that were good - great but I didn't like them. Doesn't mean they were bad they just didn't reah me like they did others.

For example Watchmen was a well constructed story, but that doesn't mean you have to like it. But then at the same time it doesn't mean every comic writer needs to recreate the tone and ideas in the story because that isn't good writing. Sadly that is what many current comic writers and artists are doing they are mimics often focusing on circumstances, and not telling their own story. OOOOH this story is awesome because it's so dark and gritty and that's why people like it, must make my stories dark and gritty and people will love it. A great story teller can captivate you with recreating their morning restroom visit.

Most of the comics I have for the new DC haven't even had likeable characters, note it isn't about being relateable or some one I think would be cool to hang out with. You can hate a likeable character.
Which really that's the case of most entertainment today.

Last edited by wyldman11; September 16, 2011 at 02:21pm.

One Gum Drop to rule them all, One Gum Drop to find them,
One Gum Drop to bring them all and in the sweetness bind them
In the Land of Candy where the Gingerbreads lie.
-Tag line for the Candy Land Movie Adaptation