In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : Wow a bit defensive? Ok lets start with your first point why trade down when you already have a ton of seconds. One if you feel that you can get 1 of 4 players you want in the early 2nd then grab an early 3rd you get 2 players for the price of one. This is provided they feel the player or type of player they are targetting will be available early in the second otherwise they would use the 1st and grab what they want. If you didn't notice same thing happened last year where the player they targetted (Chung), which in interviews they said they targetted all along, they felt would be around in the early 2nd and trading back not only netted then a couple extra players but also one of the 2nd picks this year. Sounds pretty logical right? And if that didn't top it off I said if he was intent on grabbing Thomas I felt he could be had in the mid to early 2nd so trading back gets you the same player and gets you an extra pick. Good enough reason? You are right I did not watching anything but youtube video on but from the scouting reports from experts I would guess know more about him then you that is what they are saying. He was also clocked in an earlier 40 at 4.60 hardly breakaway nfl speed if you ask me. Also from knowing GT's offense he didn't run the full tree branch of routes you see in the nfl. Matter a fact the offense ran one of the most basic wr packages in college (that's not questionable). From the videos you can see he didn't run them crisp and relied mainly on his physicality then on his wr ability, this does not help him translate into the nfl. So I might not have seen him in person but from what I have seen and what the experts say it is my opinion that he's not a 1st round talent and that I feel Tate, Williams, and Benn are more polished impact WR's. Now 2-3 years down the road Thomas's raw talent might make him a #1 but I want the polished route runner now and for the next couple years more then I want a project (that's why we drafted Tate as our project wr) but that's just my opinion, nothing to get defensive and angry over. This is coming from another prospect site though so read below: The Weaknesses of Demaryius Thomas The main doubts surrounding Thomas involve his speed. Does he have enough burst to succeed as a pro wide receiver, or should he just bulk up a bit and be a tight end? Reports on his 40-yard dash time were vague entering the NFL combines, ranging from 4.5 to 4.6. Draft analysts also question Thomas' route running and his lack of experience in a pro-style offense. They also wonder if his statistics weren't actually helped by playing two seasons with a run-first team. After all, opposing defenses were very rarely set up to stop the pass.Posted by PatsEng

I uderstand your point but before he broke his foot he was clocked running 40 at 4.3-4.4 speed. oh and it was a clean break which means clean heal. And yeah IM defensive because trading down for more second round picks is only logical if you are trading your other second round picks to get say Olsen or Marshall.

Dont say Broncos wont trade Marshall away for a second rounder because right now seahawks are using it as leverage since no biters are going after the first and third round tender and the ploy is to use it going into the draft. So possibly Seahawks might try to draft there low second round pick for marshall. I can see that possibliity of patriots trading first round pick for a low second and third and using that scenario, possibly.

But I am telling you Thomas off field issues compared to the other players are far and in between as the other rookies coming in so he is going to be a better target, and I hardly doubt he is going to last past the 30th pick, I think Patriots should go for him. If hes on the board and hes an option, IF THEY DONT TRADE FOR MARSHALL, OR OLSEN.

You are right about Thomas, he's got a ton of upsid and ability but in that offense where many of the cb's and safeties are checking the line first it's hard to get a good call on his true abilities. I'm also concerned that maybe the reason for his limited routes was not the system but that was all he could learn and run effectively. His raw ability easily makes him one of the best wr's in the draft but there are way to many question marks on him and the style of O he ran for me to say I'd take a chance on him early. I'd just think taking a more polished wr in a pro style offense is more a sure thing.

Graham is interesting. By the numbers Hughes and Kindle should be better but Graham has a unique skill set and motor that the eye ball test loves. I've gradually fell in love with Graham and he's become my favorite OLB in this draft but if he's gone and we get Hughes I wouldn't be sad.

Agreed that Thomas is a boom or bust guy. I think he'll either be Brandon Marshall (minus the thuggery) or Chad Jackson. He's too risky for the pats but I am very intrigued by him. I think a better Pats receiver would be D Williams out of SC, but Thomas might end up being the best player in the draft (i just think he has that type of potential). A lot of if's surround him though.

On the OLB front I'd be okay with Hughes also. I'm not a fan of Sapp after watching him get steamrolled more than a few times. Graham is still my boy.

Hey Rock, You are right about Thomas, he's got a ton of upsid and ability but in that offense where many of the cb's and safeties are checking the line first it's hard to get a good call on his true abilities. I'm also concerned that maybe the reason for his limited routes was not the system but that was all he could learn and run effectively. His raw ability easily makes him one of the best wr's in the draft but there are way to many question marks on him and the style of O he ran for me to say I'd take a chance on him early. I'd just think taking a more polished wr in a pro style offense is more a sure thing. Graham is interesting. By the numbers Hughes and Kindle should be better but Graham has a unique skill set and motor that the eye ball test loves. I've gradually fell in love with Graham and he's become my favorite OLB in this draft but if he's gone and we get Hughes I wouldn't be sad.Posted by PatsEng

Agreed that Thomas is a boom or bust guy. I think he'll either be Brandon Marshall (minus the thuggery) or Chad Jackson. He's too risky for the pats but I am very intrigued by him. I think a better Pats receiver would be D Williams out of SC, but Thomas might end up being the best player in the draft (i just think he has that type of potential). A lot of if's surround him though. On the OLB front I'd be okay with Hughes also. I'm not a fan of Sapp after watching him get steamrolled more than a few times. Graham is still my boy. In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas :Posted by Rockdog1293000

I like Williams, if you seen any of my other posts, ive listed, THomas/tate/williams....

WIlliams is actually a good fit for the patriots because is a guy that is one who comes out of the screen ALOT, and makes plays, the only thing I think is that He will be there in the later rounds Patriots can snag him He is not a 22 overall pick. SO if Thomas is gone and tate is as well, WIlliams would compliment MOSS/TATE in the slot if we can pick him up in the later second round.

Yeah totally agree. I wasn't thinking Williams with 22. With him I am thinking mid to late second because he's not as explosive but looks very dependable. He also could be a quick learner bc he transferred to USC and became the leading receiver in no time. I think he's be a good, safe pick in round 2.

In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : I like Williams, if you seen any of my other posts, ive listed, THomas/tate/williams.... WIlliams is actually a good fit for the patriots because is a guy that is one who comes out of the screen ALOT, and makes plays, the only thing I think is that He will be there in the later rounds Patriots can snag him He is not a 22 overall pick. SO if Thomas is gone and tate is as well, WIlliams would compliment MOSS/TATE in the slot if we can pick him up in the later second round.Posted by clarkeyj1

Anyone who wants this guy w/ our first has no idea what their talking about. This guy has rran 2 , count them 2 routes only in college. Rec and OLB are extremely hard position to translate into the pros. Do your homework you sound like amateurs.

Yah I just dont like the idea of Trading picks, down, I understand it with no talent and waiting, but last year patriots did it and they could of had CLAY MATTHEWS. We wouldnt be looking for a pass rusher OLB. And our LBs would be young with MAYO, and MATTHEWS. Do not get me wrong I like chung. But we wouldnt be talking about how crappy our Pass rushers are.

I thought Patriots would of picked him up last year and well I was dead wrong. guy goes out and gets ten sacks this year. So, that is why I hate trading down and now uncapped year and paying unproven rookies the money. Well they messed up last year so I say stop being cheap, and draft.

Yah I just dont like the idea of Trading picks, down, I understand it with no talent and waiting, but last year patriots did it and they could of had CLAY MATTHEWS. We wouldnt be looking for a pass rusher OLB. And our LBs would be young with MAYO, and MATTHEWS. Do not get me wrong I like chung. But we wouldnt be talking about how crappy our Pass rushers are. I thought Patriots would of picked him up last year and well I was dead wrong. guy goes out and gets ten sacks this year. So, that is why I hate trading down and now uncapped year and paying unproven rookies the money. Well they messed up last year so I say stop being cheap, and draft.Posted by clarkeyj1

I was with you on Matthews. I really wanted him but lets wait until the trade is complete before judging it. Lets recap what we got for that trade:

#41 Butler, #83 Tate, #232 Edelman, and #44 this year.

Looking back on it I'd say that was a good trade esp if we hit on #44 this year.

So what if they are targetting Williams or Hughes with #22 and they feel either will last till atleast #40. They trade back to inside the 40 and pick up a 3rd to boot. They still get the player they want and an extra pick that they could again trade back into a 2nd for next year and a late round this year. In the end they still get the player they want, an extra gamble player, and an extra pick next year. Now this is ofcourse if they feel the player they want will be where they are trading down to otherwise it wouldn't be worth the trade down.

In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : I was with you on Matthews. I really wanted him but lets wait until the trade is complete before judging it. Lets recap what we got for that trade: #41 Butler, #83 Tate, #232 Edelman, and #44 this year. Looking back on it I'd say that was a good trade esp if we hit on #44 this year. So what if they are targetting Williams or Hughes with #22 and they feel either will last till atleast #40. They trade back to inside the 40 and pick up a 3rd to boot. They still get the player they want and an extra pick that they could again trade back into a 2nd for next year and a late round this year. In the end they still get the player they want, an extra gamble player, and an extra pick next year. Now this is ofcourse if they feel the player they want will be where they are trading down to otherwise it wouldn't be worth the trade down. Posted by PatsEng

Believe it or not I think hughes will most likely drop with the talent at wide reciever being as thin as it is... and thomas being dynamic....I just dont like the gamble to lose out on this guy. We need an offenseive threat opposite moss while welker is gone and Patten is just not it, honestly if we sign TO ill be happy, to wait til late round to get anyone, but if we are going to focus on offense first, Thomas is our guy, I think that is who we need.

Last couple years we have drafted young guys on defense now it is time to go Offense... OUr offense is getting old... besides eldelman/tate and i like eldelman but hes not going to ever be a starting wideout always going to be a 3 or 4 guyslot reciever we need a guy whos going to be a 1 or 2 split wide guy... THOMAS is that guy.... Tate i just think Wont be there for us. Id take either but Tate is slower then Thomas, and scrawny. But I do like Tate do not get me wrong. Thomas is more physical way more physical.

In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : Believe it or not I think hughes will most likely drop with the talent at wide reciever being as thin as it is... and thomas being dynamic....I just dont like the gamble to lose out on this guy. We need an offenseive threat opposite moss while welker is gone and Patten is just not it, honestly if we sign TO ill be happy, to wait til late round to get anyone, but if we are going to focus on offense first, Thomas is our guy, I think that is who we need. Last couple years we have drafted young guys on defense now it is time to go Offense... OUr offense is getting old... besides eldelman/tate and i like eldelman but hes not going to ever be a starting wideout always going to be a 3 or 4 guyslot reciever we need a guy whos going to be a 1 or 2 split wide guy... THOMAS is that guy.... Tate i just think Wont be there for us. Id take either but Tate is slower then Thomas, and scrawny. But I do like Tate do not get me wrong. Thomas is more physical way more physical.Posted by clarkeyj1

If you are looking for an impact WR to play with Moss, Thomas isn't the guy. Almost everything I've read has said it's going to take a couple years for him to come up to speed in the nfl, mainly due to the soarly simple offense he ran with in GT. Most view him as a #1 WR but he needs to develope and is considered a project. If you want a NFL ready WR right now you grab Tate or Williams who ran in a nfl style offense and can make an immediate impact. If you can give the guy time Thomas has more potential then Williams or Tate but that's all it is right now potential. He is the very definition of a boom or bust player. Someone who could be great but aso could be a bust simply because no one knows what to make of his route abilities do to the 3 back system. So I'm not understanding why you want him so bad if you are looking for someone to step in right away opposite Moss.

if you want someone with immeadiate impact at WR who will draw coverage off of moss, is physical, great hands, and good leaping ability, and will keep D coordinators up at night for a 1st or 2nd round pick you have to agree Brandon Marshall fits the bill. Trade for him!

It absolutely amazes me how little people on here actually know/understand about football. Seriously you guys come and stay on here all night , but know chit about the game and how its played. All Ive been hearing from you guys all year is how we need to draft an OLB and now its a WR in the first round. Seriously do you guys watch football , obviously not because if you did you would understand how tough it is to make the jump from college to the pros in terms of WR/OLBs. Use your head , just for a second , I dont want anyone getting a headache. How many bust have there been at WR/OLB in the last ten years? Its extremely difficult for rec's because of the press coverage , game speed , route running , and talent level. You guys need to do your homework , Thomas has only ran two routes in college. And you want to take him with our first? Same deal at OLB , tons of bust the last ten years at that position , and what do you guys want to do? Take an OLB from a class that has no clear cut number one prospect. I keep hearing all this talk about Graham , who was a very good DE in college , but how was he when he had to play OLB? Terrible , the guy couldnt play the position . And again you guys want to take him w/ our first. Again none of you have a clue. Im LMFAO because you moral mary losers make no sense , your all for taking UNPROVEN guys from a weak class. Yes a weak class , I know you guys cant come up w/ an original thought by yourselves , you just watch TV and get your opinions that way. You cant wait to take an incomplete WR in Thomas who might be the 3rd best in a suspect class , but dont want Marshall. It makes perfect sense that your all internet GM's/owners and spend every waking moment talking garbage on these boards LOL.

In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : If you are looking for an impact WR to play with Moss, Thomas isn't the guy. Almost everything I've read has said it's going to take a couple years for him to come up to speed in the nfl, mainly due to the soarly simple offense he ran with in GT. Most view him as a #1 WR but he needs to develope and is considered a project. If you want a NFL ready WR right now you grab Tate or Williams who ran in a nfl style offense and can make an immediate impact. If you can give the guy time Thomas has more potential then Williams or Tate but that's all it is right now potential. He is the very definition of a boom or bust player. Someone who could be great but aso could be a bust simply because no one knows what to make of his route abilities do to the 3 back system. So I'm not understanding why you want him so bad if you are looking for someone to step in right away opposite Moss.Posted by PatsEng

Have you ever seen Tate play? the guy gets caught from behind all the time... he doesnt have the breakaway speed and can get caught by a one legged monkey I like the guy but hes a slot reciever and only like 5'11. Williams as well is A slot reciever.

LIke you said everything you READ is about him nto coming up wit the speed. The guy is actually been clocked running a 4.3 - 4.4 as ive stated before before he broke his foot. Obviously he wont run that now but thats fast. Not to mention physical.

I think hell be good because hes 6'3 230 hes a moss/hines ward he can block at a nfl level and he can handle himself with seperation down the field or get open short routes over the middle. What route running do we need? All he needs to do is Read the Defense? Not do the perfect curl, or out, brady will get him the ball. I actually watched like this guy play about 3 or 4 games and between him and dwyer I was like damn they would look good in a patriots uniform, never thought it would happen. Now hey who knows. Same thing happened last year with clay matthews and what happen I got so pysched when he ws still on the board and we were going to pick... and what do we do we traded!?

So who knows Do not get me wrong Tate or williams great players, Thomas would be gettin the talk more if he didnt break his foot. Speaking of that i read today on another site that he might be taken in the top ten, so hey once again WHO KNOWS? I just really think THOMAS is someone we need if we hes there.

if you want someone with immeadiate impact at WR who will draw coverage off of moss, is physical, great hands, and good leaping ability, and will keep D coordinators up at night for a 1st or 2nd round pick you have to agree Brandon Marshall fits the bill. Trade for him!Posted by natesubs

I agree and with the connection with mcdaniels i thought and hope it happens...to bad we didnt do it last year... with cassel for marshall and a draft pick lol

I'll admit the 2 screens were nice but on the one you mentioned he only needed to stiff arm 1 cb since the rest of the team stuffed the box and left him basically alone in 1v1. I also noticed him getting caught from behind a couple of times (even though they didn't tackle him they still caught up to him, including a player coming across field and up on the play you mentioned). The three hook plays he ran showed he had stiff hips and trouble sticking and stopping (for comparison Welker typically will take 3-5 step to stop and turn). The rest of the plays notice the double moves all the safeties and lb's make. They are cheking the run before turing to zone. Fairly common with GT being a run heavy offense. This leaves a larger physical wr 1v1 with no help over top, it's a no win for any cb and on almost all the plays the cb had coverage but Thomas physically beat him. Also notice most of the time the safety is late on the play meaning there was no help overtop since they were loading the box. Though Thomas is a physical beast and will beat almost any cb 1v1 he's going to need to get more room and run more routes then straight patterns. Esp since safeties won't be crowding the box and checing the line with our rb core.

In Response to Re: Demaryius Thomas : I'll admit the 2 screens were nice but on the one you mentioned he only needed to stiff arm 1 cb since the rest of the team stuffed the box and left him basically alone in 1v1. I also noticed him getting caught from behind a couple of times (even though they didn't tackle him they still caught up to him, including a player coming across field and up on the play you mentioned). The three hook plays he ran showed he had stiff hips and trouble sticking and stopping (for comparison Welker typically will take 3-5 step to stop and turn). The rest of the plays notice the double moves all the safeties and lb's make. They are cheking the run before turing to zone. Fairly common with GT being a run heavy offense. This leaves a larger physical wr 1v1 with no help over top, it's a no win for any cb and on almost all the plays the cb had coverage but Thomas physically beat him. Also notice most of the time the safety is late on the play meaning there was no help overtop since they were loading the box. Though Thomas is a physical beast and will beat almost any cb 1v1 he's going to need to get more room and run more routes then straight patterns. Esp since safeties won't be crowding the box and checing the line with our rb core. Posted by PatsEng

Yes I agree... But think about it, I mean i posted that because it was HIGHLIGHTS LOWLIGHTS, moss/TATE/EDELMAN/WELKER and say we trade a second rounder for OLSEN they cant double cover them all... that leaves alot of open spaces for 1v1.

And believe it or not we can go run heavy with morris/taylor/maroney/bjge and as you seen Thomas can pass too. So thats why I am high on this guy, if we do not get him... watch for him to make a splash.