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Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Originally Posted by Magjee

Still entertaining, but no idea what direction the plot is moving in.

Remember when they introduced the vampires? Was that for a reason?

From my knowledge they were added to show that some humans knew all along that there was alien life on Earth, but that's about it from what I know. They were just pissed off Hybrids with guns and swords trying to stop the Gantzers from exterminating their comrades. No actual reason why they were introduced, but who knows, maybe we'll see something in the future.

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Quite long, but hey, I hope you'll read and comment

I agree completely

Don't get me wrong, I fucking LOVED Gantz, and considered it the best manga I have ever read (Today replaced with Battle Royale, FUCK YEAH BR). I pretty much loved everything there and couldn't even begin to imagine how it'll end, and who will make it to the end as well. The plot kept being good, there were interesting characters and enemies, and lots of mysteries just waiting to be revealed and blow my mind even more. We got to know that the catastrophe is coming, the final arc where everything will end, couldn't wait those 3 months and see what will happen, but then...

First of all, what a drag, things moved slowly as hell. Pages of Kei and Tae crying, calling for each other or just breathing (HAAH HAAH HAAH). What the fuck, man?

And yeah, I'm not through with Kei and Tae Chan. Are you kidding me? 75% of the arc is Kei trying to find Tae and vice versa. Is this a strong plot? Hell no. Why the hell is it a main part of the plot, and not just the regular plot, it's the FINAL plot. You know, the one who should have all the action and excitment, not just dull story about trying to find each other. Need to remind you, the saga where Tae is hunted was way shorter, and in this saga Tae is fucking stabbed to death by Izumi's sword! Much stronger plot and a much shorter plot (The enemies on that mission were quite filler and were only a reason for this whole saga to happen). Don't get me wrong, up to the catastrophe Tae was a good character who helped to develop the story and develop Kei's character, but when she's a huge part of the main story and a part that you don't care much.. Man, it ruins it totally

The thing I liked was Cherry's story in that arc, that shit was cool. That guy had some analogy with Kei, considering his actions were also done because of his gf (The difference is one being dead and other being held captive/lost) but Cherry actually did something instead of cry and shout her name all the time, and we sort of got a plot here as well (Raising the ethical question of "Is Cherry doing good by killing even the civilians?" a question that Tae asked later, but done in a much better way [Someone here mentioned the fact that Tae is suddenly protection the aliens that killed her mother a few hours ago etc]

As someone here also mentioned, America getting wiped, but then we see America winning without actually knowing how.. wut? Not to mention we see them coming back to Earth and.. The Americans are fighting the aliens and.. Nothing really. Not to mention we see the "Pilot" alien who was shown to be some sort of a rival to Kei, but hey, another plot device not being used at all for no apparent reason. What about other teams such as the Israeli team (Who was told by Nishi/Izumi that it was one of the best Gantz teams?) What about the German one, where it all began?

And, one of the reasons I mentioned earlier about what I LOVED in Gantz was the mysteries and the fact I had no clue how the series will end and what angle will my brain will be fucked then and before. Instead we see those things

People died in Gantz. People died A LOT. New people coming to the missions were even killed before the mission started. Main and secondary characters were killed, but even with some of the minor characters, they died with a thud (i.e The grandma and her grandson on the second mission). Reika dying was just.. Plain forced and dumb. It felt to me like it was Oku trying to say "Hey, the plot isn't stopping, really! Look! I killed somebody!" A main character dying, a quick and pointless death. No thanks

And here are some of the mysteries of Gantz that are pretty much.. Left behind and abandoned without any known reason. Here are some, some mentioned, some not

Vampires - So we have those parameters: It used to be a group of human like (Or super humans) that were a sort of secret society, which hated the Gantzers for a reason unknown, and know the Gantzers and can see them or the aliens for some quite time (They knew Izumi). Akira, who is the main character's brother, became one and we got to know that the vampires are sort of.. Genetic engineered. We also know that 99% of the vampires were killed by Izumi, and that the known survivors are host samurai (The leaser, who probably knows a lot), his "gf" and Akira. Considering the quite large part they take in the plot and the questions that were asked quite automatically with their introduction, how the hell they "got away" with revealing what the hell is going on with them and how it all started, and for what purpose? And how they can see the Gantzers reality and why they hate them?

Sebastian - We get to see the reporter, trying to get as much info as he can about what the hell is Gantz, which is great, we love it. He gets to know some sort of otaku named Sebastian, who happens to somehow know about the origins and even gets him to meet the guy behind, and some questions are being answered.. Only to be replaced with other questions - Who the hell sent that code and for what reason?! And then, the finale - Sebastian shown to be a totally different person, or even a being, teleporting away from the reporter in the middle of the street, do you remember this page and that episode? http://www.mangareader.net/97-1464-1...apter-302.html
Do you remember your jaw dropping? The question marks above your head? That was classic Gantz, and I couldn't wait to find out what the hell happened there and who the hell is Sebastian. And no, showing Sebastian's face in one panel at the room of truth does not equal anything even remotely close to an answer

The Nori Boss - Remember this guy? He was asking questions.. About god, about the gantzers. Sebastian asked them a few episodes later. Why don't we get an answer?

Nishi - This guy had a lot of info about what's going on, why couldn't we get it and instead got to see him dying, yet again "thanks" to Tae (Like I didn't hate her enough already)

Kei2 - Not exactly a question, but more of a plot device. We've got 2 Keis, why not use this wisely and make it something that changes things completely? How about one of them sacrificing himself for the other or them fighting etc? This could be q uite interesting direction or even a saga

The Gantzdude - We get to see him out of the ball, and.. We don't really get any answers, and to be honest, It's not like he's really getting asked. Why?!

The Room Of Truth - We finally get to it, we think we can get what we expected and it's not too late. We get not quite the satisfying answers for only a few of the questions.. WHAT

I bet there are more things left unanswered even though there was a buildup for it to be answered eventually, but, no. We didn't get it and we'll probably won't. It's as if the final part was written by someone who read the plot briefly and on the way really likes romantic couples?

And another thing, the aliend designs/ideas/uniqueness. We had a father and son who.. Lived in the middle of Tokyo? A Japanese idol look alikes who were just host bodies for bird like aliens and had a boss bird lying in a house, once again in the middle of Tokyo? A hindu (Correct me if I'm wrong about that) temple that the statues are aliens and the boss can make himself contact humans? A clan of aliens that the only survivor managed to exit the world of Gantz and break into "The real world" and avenge his friends? A Jurassic mission with a cute looking farmer that manages to become quite a monster himself? Aliens who used to be in human forms all along and their boss can shape shift himself? The Nuri aliens, designed by Japanese Mythology and folklore, featuring a "body shape shifting" ability and a "self conscious"? The Vatican becoming a nightmare? Instead, we get the aliens invading.. No theme really (Unless you consider them having similar equipment to Gantzers), no depth and actual plot like some of the others (The Temple boss, the short alien boss, the Nori boss etc). I mean, seriously?

And yeah, those are my 2 cents. Gantz was amazing, and the final part is just... Disappointing. (Not the only manga it happens, but hey, never believed Gantz will be one of them. That's one of the reasons I love BR so much - It always delievered!) Is there someone here who thinks Gantz hasn't lost it touch at all, even a bit?

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

We actually have decent answers for a lot of those. More or less.. And if we don't have solid answers it's often because we don't really need them. For example:

vampires: they can see gantzers because their leaders are good with technology. after all, they're bodies are 50-90% nanobots now.

We don't know exactly how many vampires were killed by Izumi but we know they still kept pulling out more when needed. They could easily grow their numbers again too of course. Anyway! they're rather irrelevant at this point until everybody gets back to earth.

Sebastien/Nuri: Sebastien is very likely a manifestation of the God aliens from the room of truth. He directly copied Nuri's quote to mess with the reader (that's us!).

Nishi: agreed, fucking bullshit hey

Gantzdude: More could have been done with this guy. Didn't happen but yeah I get the frustration, it happens a lot.

Room of truth: Agreed. It was pretty rushed and pointless imo, though we did get a couple of interesting scenes out of it.

The point of the giants is that they're exactly like human beings. That's basically it... they commit atrocities against us, and as soon as we get the chance we hit them right back with the same stuff. If not worse. Could have been excellent, but was a little bit rushed.

As for anyone that thinks the manga hasn't lost its touch at all... that would most likely be kliff2004. As I understand it though he views the whole thing a little bit differently to the rest of us.

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Eksh, if you thought the series was good after it transformed from a seinen horror manga to a shonen lets collect points to save our friends manga (the osaka arc was a dying gasp and actually good), I don't need to read your massive essay. The series was so tonally different, it was almost an entirely new series with the same characters.

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Not that it matters, but outside of the magazine in which something is published, I'm not sure there is any hard-fast distinction between the two. The violence and nudity are probably at the upper boundary of what can be done in a shonen manga, but the author's absurdly simple world view is VERY shonen, albeit dark shonen. (see the thread on Oku's inability to understand normal human interaction for a great example of that)

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

We actually have decent answers for a lot of those. More or less.. And if we don't have solid answers it's often because we don't really need them. For example:

vampires: they can see gantzers because their leaders are good with technology. after all, they're bodies are 50-90% nanobots now.

We don't know exactly how many vampires were killed by Izumi but we know they still kept pulling out more when needed. They could easily grow their numbers again too of course. Anyway! they're rather irrelevant at this point until everybody gets back to earth.

Sebastien/Nuri: Sebastien is very likely a manifestation of the God aliens from the room of truth. He directly copied Nuri's quote to mess with the reader (that's us!).

Nishi: agreed, fucking bullshit hey

Gantzdude: More could have been done with this guy. Didn't happen but yeah I get the frustration, it happens a lot.

Room of truth: Agreed. It was pretty rushed and pointless imo, though we did get a couple of interesting scenes out of it.

The point of the giants is that they're exactly like human beings. That's basically it... they commit atrocities against us, and as soon as we get the chance we hit them right back with the same stuff. If not worse. Could have been excellent, but was a little bit rushed.

As for anyone that thinks the manga hasn't lost its touch at all... that would most likely be kliff2004. As I understand it though he views the whole thing a little bit differently to the rest of us.

But why would you do that? How did they know about that reality at first? And why do they hate the Gantzers and how it all started?

He and the Nuri Boss are probably related to the room of truth beings, but still, who the hell are they?

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Well they *are* from another planet just like all the other aliens (nanobots). There has been indication that Gantz has targeted them in the past. They survived, got their shit together and eventually fought back.

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

I just feel that there was just a big missed opportunity with the story after the Osaka arc. Oku was hinting that Kato was going to be the leader for at least a few missions. He had a major goal and reason to fight. To revive Kei. I don't like how easily he got revived only after a single mission. I would have liked to see more epic co op missions like Osaka. Maybe a Tokyo X Israel or Tokyo X Kyoto or even a mission in NYC to just give a bigger build up to the Giant Invasion. Kato being a leader for 3 or 4 more arcs would have been great. We would have gotten to see new ailens, foreign gantzers and maybe some new weapons.

Another thing that was a missed opportunity was the entire Host Samurai as a Gantzer dynamic. How would he have worked with the team on more missions? What if he got 100 points? In what way can he reveal intel to his fellow vampires between missions?

It also would have been cool to see some behind the scenes things. Why did the black ball start failing the last few missions? like increasing time, being seen by the public etc. Where the Gantzman went.

I can't help but feel the Giant Invasion was a bit rushed too. It seemed to just happen after the Osaka arc. They could have built it and hyped it up a bit more. They only mentioned it once before Osaka. Could have been hyped more IMO

Re: Has the story taken a wrong turn? What's the next step?

Originally Posted by Damura

Well they *are* from another planet just like all the other aliens (nanobots). There has been indication that Gantz has targeted them in the past. They survived, got their shit together and eventually fought back.