I’m in need of some good arguments.

TheEngineer

TheEngineer

Total Posts: 1

Joined 02-10-2012

Newbie

Total Posts: 1

Joined 02-10-2012

Posted: 02 October 2012 01:25

Me and my significant other have been together for almost 4 years.

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

Participating in Jewish heritage does not equal belief in the Jewish god, but that isn’t clear in your post about your partner (how I despise using the term “partner” when the language has other terms which are more specific but that’s another topic). My wife has decided to try to re-connect with Catholicism and there is not much I can do to stop her other than refuse to go with her to mass. The only problem I see with your partner’s renewed interest in his Jewish heritage is the one you create in objecting to his choice.

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

I wish you and your future ex the best of luck

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
~ Hitch

I prefer the full-on embrace of reality to the spiritual masturbation that is religion.
~ S.A. Ladoucier

I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people
~ M. Teresa, Fruitcake of Calcutta

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

Hi,

Religions are not equal. Some are worse than others (e.g. Islam is the worst).

Spending time and energy practicing religious traditions is a waste of time. What problem does it solve?

I wrote an article criticizing the God explanation. You should find it useful in your effort.

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

I always find the passover pretty odd. Where Yahweh frees the Jews, in part, by slaughtering all the Egyptian first born, he tells his people to smear their windows with lamb’s blood so he’ll know who to identify. Pretty slack for God, hey? Is shmuck the right Yiddish word?:-)

At the end of the Day people believe whatever they want to suit themselves OR that they have been brain-washed to believe OR compelled by Force to believe!

The simplest of questions should be asked to ANY & ALL of them e.g.

Where is your legitimate evidence that ANY literal Supernatural god(s) exist?

In fact the James Randi Educational Foundation wants to hear from ANY professing such a claim? LOL!

The Foundation is committed to providing reliable information about paranormal claims. It both supports and conducts original research into such claims.

At JREF, we offer a one-million-dollar prize to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event. The JREF does not involve itself in the testing procedure, other than helping to design the protocol and approving the conditions under which a test will take place. All tests are designed with the participation and approval of the applicant. In most cases, the applicant will be asked to perform a relatively simple preliminary test of the claim, which if successful, will be followed by the formal test. Preliminary tests are usually conducted by associates of the JREF at the site where the applicant lives. Upon success in the preliminary testing process, the “applicant” becomes a “claimant.”

Yea know it seems like your husband might neglect lots of time. I feel its beneficial to sit in silence not always but daily esp. when you feel like you dont want to or you are having a tough time with life. I feel like that time you take to think and keep asking yourself questions not ask someone else or go to a congregation or pray or preach. That time is absolutely priceless and when you undercut that with mindless things like family guy or surrounding yourself with people who dont care about critical thinking or always ask for help never TAKE THE TIME TO STRUGGLE MENTALLY your robbing yourself and someone can easily (speaking empirically) come and change your ideas your beliefs and opinions. Essentially weak minded people are easily swayed just as weak bodied are easily pushed. That just came to mind i like that one lol. Anyway I wish him and you the best remember it takes failure to succeed

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

I always find the passover pretty odd. Where Yahweh frees the Jews, in part, by slaughtering all the Egyptian first born, he tells his people to smear their windows with lamb’s blood so he’ll know who to identify. Pretty slack for God, hey? Is shmuck the right Yiddish word?:-)

This is the same moronic deity that led his people in circles for 40 years in a desert that would take a few weeks to cross.
Jews just weren’t that bright back then, I guess. Consistently, eh?

What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof.
~ Hitch

I prefer the full-on embrace of reality to the spiritual masturbation that is religion.
~ S.A. Ladoucier

I think the world is being much helped by the suffering of the poor people
~ M. Teresa, Fruitcake of Calcutta

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

It would seem that you need to distinguish between a general appreciation of Jewish culture and acceptance of the supernatural, metaphysical beliefs of the Jewish religion.

If he simply enjoys the culture, what would be the difference between that and being a Star Trek enthusiast, or a Harry Potter fan? (except that the Jewish culture may be a source of deeper identity for him) I assume that level of interest is more of an indulgence in fantasy and provides a sense of community with like minded people. I fail to see the harm in that. Creative thought can be a positive thing.

However if he subscribes to metaphysical or superstitious explanations relating to the physical world, that would certainly be problematic. And the problem would have less to do with Judaism and more to do with irrational thought and a lack of critical analysis.

So which represents him best? And which are you more upset about; his interest in a culture that you don’t share, or his irrational conclusions about the nature of the world?

We both are against Religion and denounce the existence of some divine plan. However, his family is of a jewish background.
He recently took a college course at georgetown, focusing on religious history.

He’s starting to really enjoy reading the Torah, and joined a ‘cultural’ jewish movement group at his college that hosts luncheons preaching about jewish history and its importance ect.
And he’s also stated that he really likes his jewish background and wants to participate.

We’ve had arguments over how outrageously stupid I think this is, and I told him he is dumbing himself down.

He responds by saying “What is wrong with Judaism? Judaism has always been the religion that has been targeted of violence not creating it. What is wrong with wanting to be involved with the Culture? So what if I want to do yakimpoor, shabbat, passover ect.? Religion, especially Judaism, isn’t as bad as some people make it out to be”.

I’ve never been a debater, and I’m not well versed in the torah either. But what I do know, is that I despise religion greatly, because of so many reasons that you guys probably know better than me.

What types of arguments can I present to him? Any scenario’s showing how Judaism is no different then any other religion? Any verbal ammunition to be able to debate with him and possibly convince him would be much help.

thanks.
EDIT: I know this isn’t a relationship counseling forum, mainly just looking for good arguments and points.

An anecdote of my personal experience may help. My father lost his parents and became more and more religious. I attend so many ceremonies and it’s been so repetitive that I want to puke. My father talks about his culture on the dinner table so much as well. My intellectual interests cause me to be annoyed by it. I’ve gotten so annoyed that any blessing makes me want to puke. I feel like ripping apart any religious item just to relieve this brain abuse and give myself some justice. From my observations the entire process is fear driven. Maybe you can remove his fear of the Jewish God. People can be nonbelievers incompletely. The true test is to see if they can disrespect something holy.