This game started well, faded in the second half, before being won with a brilliant Lionel Messi goal.

International friendlies are, as much as anything, an opportunity to experiment – to try a new shape or new players in a pressure-free environment. That is the main concern for managers (rather than necessarily trying to win the game with a tactical shift to exploit the opposition’s weaknesses) so rather than the usual analysis of how the two sides faced each other, here we’ll take the sides individually.

Brazil

Mano Menezes was constrained by injury problems. Pato had started all four games under Menezes as the lone forward, whilst Carlos Eduardo had started the last three as the playmaker. Both were unavailable.

Therefore, Menezes was forced to rejig. Robinho was the closest thing to a main striker, though he dropped to the flanks and into deeper positions. Neymar started from the left and moved central, Elias kept a relatively disciplined right-wing position, and Ronaldinho returned in the central playmaker role. There were few surprises in the other seven positions.

Compared to Dunga’s regime, there is unquestionably more fluidity in the attacking positions. Previously, Kaka, Robinho and Luis Fabiano all had very specific roles. Here, Menezes allows his players much more positional freedom, and there was frequent switching of positions between the front four. With this seemed to be a slight lack of cohesion, however – Robinho is clearly not a number nine but nor does he look particularly able to be a false nine – his natural inclination to run with the ball doesn’t lend itself to good link-up play.

Ronaldinho was singled out for praise by Menezes after the game – “Ronaldinho did well, taking responsibility for creating offensive moves. He was substituted because of his physical condition and not because of his performance. We brought him back to the Selecao at the right time” – but the quality of his performance will be overstated. The fancy flicks were there, but so too was a lack of real cutting edge and ruthlessness in the final third, the same reason he is currently not starting for Milan.

Early on pressing was a big part of Brazil’s game, but the nature of the contest (and perhaps the heat) meant that this didn’t last long, and the tempo dropped as the match went on, making it difficult to judge how Brazil will play without the ball in competitive games.

The two central midfielders have a good understanding – Lucas generally sits in front of the back four to the left, with Ramires playing a more energetic role to the right, but these two are happy to switch around during play. Whether they have the imagination on the ball, however, is questionable. Gilberto-Melo to Lucas-Ramires marks a shift from destroyers to ‘busier’ players, but there is probably a need for more of a ball-playing midfielder alongside a holder, especially if Brazil are going to be less of a counter-attacking side and more of a positive side based upon ball retention and out-and-out attacking play.

There was, however, a positive display from the back four. Andre Santos is clearly much more of a natural full-back than Michel Bastos, and he and Dani Alves got up and down the line well to allow the wide attacking players inside.

Argentina

The back four of Argentina was also arguably their biggest positive from the game. After Diego Maradona’s dislike of attacking full-backs, it was notable how often Gabriel Heinze got forward on the left, with Javier Zanetti his typical buccaneering self on the opposite side.

Javier Mascherano – even for him – played very deep in front of the defence, sometimes dropping between the centre-backs to come and get the ball. Slightly more advanced than him was Ever Banega who was positionally-disciplined and more of an intelligent ball-player than Mascherano, indicating that Argentina have found good balance in their two deeper central midfielders.

The main point of interest was Javier Pastore, who was starting just his second game for Argentina, and his first alongside Lionel Messi. He had a decent, solid game – coming deep to pick up the ball in midfield, which in turn allowed Messi into more central positions, whilst Angel di Maria kept more width on the left.

Gonzalo Higuain was the main striker but dropped deep and to the flanks to build up play, and the initial signs – despite the fact that it took a last-minute Messi wondergoal for Argentina to score – were positive in terms of the front four.

It was probably more 4-2-1-3 than 4-2-3-1. This may seem like a slight, irrelevant difference but the two systems are quite different, especially when they do not have the ball. At the World Cup, the central players in 4-2-3-1s (Wesley Sneijder, Mesut Oezil) tended to play higher up than the wingers, but here Pastore was much more of a link between the two deep midfielders and the front three.

36 Responses to “ Argentina 1-0 Brazil: Messi with superb winner ”

Great winner by Messi. It was a shame that his effort off the woodwork in the first half did not go in, it would have been a terrific goal with the preceding build-up.

I thought both sides could have made more use of the space on offer for Andre Santos and Javier Zanetti. Particularly in the first half, neither Messi nor Neymar were interested in tracking the fullbacks down that side of the pitch.

I wonder if Mourinho will use Di Maria against Alves in the classico or keep Ronaldo on that side?

that would be interesting. On one hand it would limit Ronaldo’s effectiveness, but on the other hand it would make it difficult for Barcelona and Alves. On the other hand, if Barcelona counters there with Pedro-Alves against Marcelo-Di Maria, they might not even lose that much.

Elwood on November 19, 2010 at 5:14 am

Mourinho will probably just leave Ronaldo in his usual position on the left. His sheer presence alone should deter Alves from bombing forward too much.

Rajesh on November 18, 2010 at 1:39 pm

Brazil had a clear plan to press high up on the Argentine side and that did work very well for them, making it difficult for Argentina to take the ball up. But once they got forward they looked very good in passing the ball around in the Brazil half, even if they couldnt create chances at all. Argentina in turn didnt press Brazil at all. Still there were some good football in the first half. Banega, Mascherrano and Pastore definitely looks like the future of Argentine mid field. De Maria and Higuain had disappointing game though. Once again Messi magic. There were two challenges on him during that run, if not for him, any other player would have gone down with a penalty request, but thats Leo for us. Neymar also looked dangerous.

Rajesh on November 18, 2010 at 1:47 pm

ZM, no mention about Lavezzi, who actually did seem to make some impact on the attack. For all his brilliance, I am afraid he is not that good in decision making and looks a little bit like absent minded, if I may use that word, near the box. But he is a talent.

Jeremy on November 18, 2010 at 3:38 pm

As a Manchester United Supporter, I know my opinion will be biased so I ask what Anderson’s chance of making it into the team in place of lucas are.

Mati on November 18, 2010 at 6:06 pm

how many coaches of the Brazilian NT do you know change their ‘keeper, back 4 and 1 of their holding midfielders that often? Dida-Cafu, Lucio, Juan, R Carlos-Emerson, and whoever…J Cesar-Maicon, Lucio, Juan, (problem position)-Gilberto Silva and whoever. the no.5 will hardly change because its not fancy enough, and quite honestly Brazil doesn’t produce that many signifiant 5’s as Argentina, its not their tradition.

Anderson? maybe, and that’s a big maybe…he blew all his chances with Dunga, but if Mano will give the under-whelming, all tricks no substance (OK, fair enough, no real striker to feed) Ronnie a chance, then why not?

I hope this answes you question, I doubt it will…I’m confused now

Ian Holloway on November 19, 2010 at 1:14 am

First, Anderson is not a holding mid. If anything, he should be challenging Ramires for the b2b midfield spot.

Second, Lucas has played well for Brazil, and proved that he can cut it at the highest level with that performance against Chelsea. He just needs to be more consistent when facing the likes of Wigan.

Third, Anderson is currently the 6th choice CM in the United pecking order. Fletcher, Scholes, Carrick, O’SHEA and PARK have all been preferred over him this season.

Fourth, Brazil actually does have good depth in the centre mid. As a destroyer, Melo has finally hit form with Juve. As a roamer, Wesley is doing fine at Bremen. As something of an in-between, Denilson seems a useful player once again. All better options than Anderson at the moment.

In conclusion, all is not looking well for Ando, if you ask me.

DOF on November 18, 2010 at 3:41 pm

They both looked like Mourinho’s Inter at times.

Rei on November 18, 2010 at 4:17 pm

Very little I think. Removing a pure defensive midfielder like Lucas would warrant his being replace by a similar player, which Anderson is not. For the other spot Ramires, Hernanes, and Elias are probably in front of him. I’m not particularly impressed by Ramires. He’s better as a carrilero than in a double pivot.

I think the best double pivot for Brazil would be Hernanes and Sandro.

Mark on November 18, 2010 at 4:19 pm

ZM, can you do the England game please?

Mati on November 18, 2010 at 6:30 pm

I’ll do it for you. France played an under-par possesion game with a few moments of genius, but because we’re all still living off the shambles in SA, we MUST all agree they were fantastic, superb, world class, fully recovered and back to their best. Except, they were playing against an eye-sore of an England team, the worst I have seen since the World Cup…2010 that is. Kudos to Lolo Blanc, the style is there, the kids (Nasri, Benz, M’Vila & Payet…previously Ben Arfa, Menez & Matuidi) who got shunned were there, Mexes with confidence was there, and above all, a team was there (but why Abidal?). All confident, all singing La Marseillaise, proud, happy and again, confident. OK, Nasri and Gourcuff were OK…although they didn’t seem too enthusiastic about passing to each other at times. Maybe a battle over the meneur. Nevertheless, Yoann did a roulette, and helped my son M’Vila defensively.

But England, my oh my! I read this in the Guardian comments section, “I don’t understand why Gerrard gets such high marks after England games. He’s awful. He’s even worse than he is for Liverpool. I’m pretty sure people see him hoof it out of play or blaze it into the stands and just think ‘well at least Gerrard’s showing a bit of passion’” and it really does sum up the game dont you think? roughly 4-4-1-1 or 4-2-3-1 depending on how you interpret the wingers’ roles, which i dont, looking at Walcott’s tactical difficulties, positioning and decision making (becoming a cliche now). Carroll was supposed to be good, I’m not saying he’s not, but the one time he had a chance to dribble, a heavy touch lost it. Can’t blame him really, some mindless quarterbacks were throwing everything at him so he can control and flick on with his head, but no one assisted him once the ball left his head. Barry, is a spectator, nothing more but maybe something less. I’m not even gonna blame Capello. the England players wanted to win badly, but never kept the ball for long enough. Prozone Henderson and Gibbs may just be young enough to be taught this, but international football is not the EPL. you HAVE to keep the ball, because there’s no guarantees you’ll see it anytime soon.

Having you cover that game would be like importing a brilliant doctor to perform an autopsy on a guy with an obvious bullet wound in his head. France played two excellent ball playing midfielders, and three mobile forwards, and had a very in form right back, and crushed England. I guess you would focus on the tactics, rather than “heart” or “aggression” or some other tripe, but really not needed

Rog on November 19, 2010 at 9:46 am

Aah, thank god!!!

Isaac on November 19, 2010 at 6:38 pm

can you do the portugal spain match first please

Anonymous on November 18, 2010 at 4:20 pm

To me the shape was an obvious 4-3-3 ala Barcelona with Ronaldinho acting as the False 9. There were many times where Elias, Ramires and Lucas formed a 3-man shield in front of the back four. Elias and Ramires had the license to move forward when in possession whilst Lucas more defensive.

Sorry – they went straight into the spam list, no idea why! Shouldn’t happen again – if it does, let me know. This one was fine, so probably just an error in the system…apologies

ZM

t on November 20, 2010 at 11:35 am

is it possible to get a midfield with passer,passer and creator working

Steven Smith on November 21, 2010 at 9:30 pm

You could argue that’s what Barca and Spain use with Busquets/Xavi/Iniesta and Xabi Alonso/Xavi/Fabregas (when he comes on as a sub).

It works especially well when the DM passer has fantastic positional sense (Busquets really excels in this area).

Flavio on November 20, 2010 at 8:16 pm

Brazil had injury problems, sure, but Menezes was forced to use Robinho in the nine position by his own poor selection- Nilmar, who played very well in the last two Brazil games despite limited time, and always seems to do well when he’s used, wasn’t called up for unexplainable reasons, specially considering Robinho and André are reserves at their clubs and at poor form.

Some of Menezes choices were also strange, the worst being the four players he managed at Corinthians (Douglas, Elias, Jucilei and André Santos), none of them good enough for international football.

As for Anderson, Menezes was probably the manager that got the best football out of him in his career (although should be said it was in Brazilian second-division), but he was an attacking midfielder similar to Ronaldinho, not a defensive-minded player like he is in United (and I will never understand why Ferguson tried to change him so much)

I couldn’t watch the game, but I think I should comment a couple of things regarding this match.

First, the ideal playmaker in Mano’s – and everyone’s – head is Ganso, who could only play the match against USA because of a knee injury. As much as I like Ronaldinho, his Seleção days are long gone and he can’t be a starter in his current form. Ganso is the best playmaker to out of our youth teams in a very long time, and he’s got a very good chemistry with Neymar and Robinho.

Second, Elias. Elias was one of the most important and decisive players in Mano’s Corinthians, so it’s natural to see him in the team. But I don’t like the way Mano is using him. He and Ramires are very similar and have basically the same playing style, and I would even say that Elias is better than Ramires – I consider Elias superior to Ramires in every aspect but stamina and tackling. Two midfielders executing basically the same function and with limited passing skills and creativity skills can’t be a good thing. I think Mano should drop Ramires or even drop both of them in order to use Hernanes by Ganso’s side.

Third, André Santos. Just like Elias, André is another treasure found by Mano, as you can say. The good thing about having André Santos is that Mano – like I said – is the coach that knows him the most in this world, so he definately will be used in right way – not on the left wing like in Fenerbahçe. Everyone knows he’s far from being a Roberto Carlos, but good left-backs are something rare in the world these days. Marcelo could be called too, but I think he left a bad impression when he refused the call to the friendly against Barcelona B. It’s a shame, as the kid is on the best period of his career.

Fourth, you mentioned that the team was pressing Argentina in their defense. Well, that’s a very good sign, but I’m worried about that aspect as well. Check that front line. Ronaldinho, Robinho and Neymar. Those are three players that aren’t used to help the defense, and sometimes don’t even bother running when their team is not in posession. That’s a problem. Anyway, I suppose that will get better when we get Ganso back, as he can join the rest of the midfield when asked and even man-mark player (he kinda did it to Hernanes once, the comp is on Youtube) sometimes.

In resume, I think Mano is doing really well. The team seems to be keeping possession and passing the ball around much more fluidly, the defensive midfielders can actually pass the ball – well, at least on a better fashion than Gilberto Silva and You-Know-Who -, and the attackers press the opposition’s defenders. When Pato and Ganso get back from injury and Hernanes starts to be called again, I’m sure we’ll do well. As for Mano calling the players he worked with in Corinthians, I don’t really see that as a problem. Douglas, Elias and André Santos can be useful players, but I’m not really convinced when it comes to Jucilei’s skills. Anyway, I guess he may stop calling them when they get better contracts or move to bigger clubs.

Sorry, ZM. I think I wrote more than I was planning to. Hope you can reply me later.

Mati on November 18, 2010 at 6:10 pm

Pastore only moved further back and “to the left of Mascherano” in the second half. In the first half, he was up there, behind the front 3, beautifully controlling some aweful, almost stray, passes and providing solutions for the Messi, Pipita and Di Maria. His undertsnading with Messi wasn’t as good as Messi-Banega vs Spain, but I think Messi trusts the kid and thinks highly of him (just like Riquelme at the Olympics ‘08)

juliano on November 18, 2010 at 8:06 pm

yeah, hernanes should play more, especially with elias and ramires being very similar players.
now that ganso is injured a ideal formation will be with lucas-ramires-hernanes…

and it’s funny the name of anderson being talked, he probably is the one who make the most notorious goal in a team coached by mano menezes, when he played in a very different role, being almost a striker

with pato (nilmar and hulk as bench options, not andre, who isn’t even playing in dynamo…) the attack should be: ronaldinho and neymar on the wings and pato as CF
ronaldinho and robinho are too similar, and of the one, i think everyone prefer ronaldinho…