"Evolution was nudged in the right direction by a higher being." One of evolution's best features is that it does not need a higher being. The laws of physics can keep evolution rolling just fine. The idea of a higher being raises more questions than it answers (a being capable of creating life must be far more complex than the life it creates, where did it come from?) To quote Occam's razor "the simplest explanation is usually the correct one."

Agreed, but just because it doesn't need, doesn't mean it's not there. Some believe,or even just feel more comfortable believing that we arrived where we are today with a little bit of guidance. It's a hell of a lot more comforting than survival of the fittest.

As far as " The idea of a higher being raises more questions than it answers (a being capable of creating life must be far more complex than the life it creates, where did it come from?)"

Completely agreed, and science has it's own contradictory questions. The origin of the universe. If nothing was there before, how was something created? It was all energy you say? Well where did that come from?

Honestly, it's the same basic question: What came first, the chicken, or the egg.

Yes, what science bases their beliefs on have proof. Faith is just like like what I said above, sometimes you just have to cross your fingers and hope..

Faith is, by nature, irrational – not evidence based. No different than a hope or a wish.

We have no evidence for creationism. No evidence that active prayer is fruitful. Jesus could heal the blind but chose not to eliminate blindness. When people are stricken with cancer and die, the religious answer is that god wanted them in heaven as an angel.

It is truly unfortunate that religion is not the answer, but the root of the problem. Illogical beliefs are what motivated extremists to fly jets into the twin towers. Ask a Baptist, a Catholic or a Mormon if people of other Christian faiths will go to heaven, and, if honest, they'll answer 'no'.

Religion is divisive by nature. And, as Carl Sagan said, as we learn more and more about our world through science, religion continually shrinks away into the shadows.

It's nice to have the myths and morals as a compass, but even Joseph Campbell admitted that religious stories are just that, stories, fairy tales.

I am in no way saying that any religious literature is correct but you are acting like it's entirely different to listen to a man of science that only says(without any proof) that religious stories are fairy tales.

I am a man of science and religion, this I openly admit. And again I feel I must remind you that not all religious people have an open mind towards science. Much like your mind seems entirely closed off towards religion.

I believe in evolution, I believe in science and I believe that there is more to life than science today can prove.

Be that as it may, any openly accessible website that posts any sort of religion vs. science content is bound to see a lot of discussion. Sadly, mostly negative.

There are lots and lots of examples of science IGNORING evidence that is contrary to the theory created because it then debunks the theory and actually points towards the scientific evidence that "Faith" is really not all faith. The problem is that the scientist don't want contrary theories advanced so they just pretend things are different.

There are lots and lots of examples of science IGNORING evidence that is contrary to the theory created because it then debunks the theory and actually points towards the scientific evidence that “Faith” is really not all faith. The problem is that the scientist don’t want contrary theories advanced so they just pretend things are different.

So I'm sure you can back up that unsupported assertion with actual, you know, *evidence*?

And by evidence I mean actual instances of the scientific establishment ignoring contradicting, replicated/verified evidence and refusing to discard or modify the affected theories, and not just individual scientists acting stubborn.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ok HOW ABOUT!
1. The theory of relativaty
2. The theory of relativaty AGAIN (special one)
3. The theory of tectonic movemennt
4. the theory of evolution
In fact EVERY SINGLE SCIENTIFIC THEORY

It is idle to talk always of the alternative of reason and faith. Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. – G.K. Chesterton

This is not correct, and quoting people doesn't get you any brownie points. Every day I wake up an gravity still pulls me down, yet you claim that I must have faith that gravity will continue to pull me down. That's nonsense. After repeatable predictable results you can make reasonable claims about how the world works, that is not faith.

Correction, gravity does not pull you down. You are free falling towards the earth. Science does not prove anything, only disprove or prove the negative. This approach only leaves one with more questions and no answers. It allows us to have ideas not facts. The biggest mistake people make is confusing belief, faith, and religion. For example: one can belive in both religious ideas or scientific ideas. Religion is a set of beliefs specific to a group's ideas. Faith however is a relationship with an individuals ideas. One can have faith in science the same way they have faith in a religion. However, I believe science has become a religion for many. It's funny that science can not disprove God, but can only describe what God has created. Carl Sagan's flat world should have given clues to the scientific community years ago. He described a two dimentional world in which a three dimensional object passes through. The people of flat world, a two dimensional world, can only observe it as a two dimensional object since their understanding is limited to these two dimesions. We have created technologies to expand our own limitations. Yet, they will always be limited.

‘Why do the two have to contradict?’
Faith: belief without evidence
Science: using evidence to come to conclusions about what to believe.
Bit mutually exclusive. Any blend between the two in my experience always ends up favouring the scientific viewpoint.

It is idle to talk always of the alternative of reason and faith. Reason is itself a matter of faith. It is an act of faith to assert that our thoughts have any relation to reality at all. – G.K. Chesterton

This is not correct, and quoting people doesn’t get you any brownie points. Every day I wake up an gravity still pulls me down, yet you claim that I must have faith that gravity will continue to pull me down. That’s nonsense. After repeatable predictable results you can make reasonable claims about how the world works, that is not faith.

Correction, gravity does not pull you down. You are free falling towards the earth. Science does not prove anything, only disprove or prove the negative. This approach only leaves one with more questions and no answers. It allows us to have ideas not facts. The biggest mistake people make is confusing belief, faith, and religion. For example: one can belive in both religious ideas or scientific ideas. Religion is a set of beliefs specific to a group’s ideas. Faith however is a relationship with an individuals ideas. One can have faith in science the same way they have faith in a religion. However, I believe science has become a religion for many. It’s funny that science can not disprove God, but can only describe what God has created. Carl Sagan’s flat world should have given clues to the scientific community years ago. He described a two dimentional world in which a three dimensional object passes through. The people of flat world, a two dimensional world, can only observe it as a two dimensional object since their understanding is limited to these two dimesions. We have created technologies to expand our own limitations. Yet, they will always be limited.

Theres alot more to feel insulted about then this. Because the basis of faith revolves around belief. And so belief would be believing insomething. Which is a state of mind of putting hope into ones existences. Because you believe it is so. Believing in god isnt necessary for existence. If you were gunna look at religion in anyway, its a way of putting boundaries on yourself without making those boundries yourself. You use god as a reason to explain your existence. In thus you dont have to think about it. Cause you already got a answer to your question. I can go on about it but oh well.. Im not a religious person. I prefer not to be called a christian for the past involvement with Christians have been tainted by death and people killing others in the name of Christianity cause they enforce there beliefs and to single minded to let the dog lie. They stick there noes in places where it does not belong creating controversy. If you ignore the people religious people killed… oh sure it looks like a holy thing. Its not. Its like how they refuse to teach some stuff to people in school cause of contriversy.

I have to agree with pak2rat. How do you expect to convince people of faith when all you ever do is demean and ridicule them. No wonder they have such a hard time believing anything that science has to offer…

What part of the article or the picture is ridiculing anyone? As far as I can tell – none. There IS contradicting evidence and we will never be able to overcome that, regardless of how much we want to.

To each their own in my opinion, but sometimes I think people are too quick to jump the gun and cry "prejudice" or "ridicule". While I understand it's not fun to be mocked for your beliefs, staying true to them regardless of the evidence and other peoples' opinions is what believing is all about.

That's just stupid. They should believe in Science because it's quite obviously much more rational and intellectually satisfying than faith. If they are not going to believe in science because people "ridicule" their faith, then they are obviously not trying to get any truth out of life.

I have to agree with pak2rat. How do you expect to convince people of faith when all you ever do is demean and ridicule them. No wonder they have such a hard time believing anything that science has to offer…

What part of the article or the picture is ridiculing anyone? As far as I can tell – none. There IS contradicting evidence and we will never be able to overcome that, regardless of how much we want to.

To each their own in my opinion, but sometimes I think people are too quick to jump the gun and cry “prejudice” or “ridicule”. While I understand it’s not fun to be mocked for your beliefs, staying true to them regardless of the evidence and other peoples’ opinions is what believing is all about.

That’s just stupid. They should believe in Science because it’s quite obviously much more rational and intellectually satisfying than faith. If they are not going to believe in science because people “ridicule” their faith, then they are obviously not trying to get any truth out of life.

“Evolution was nudged in the right direction by a higher being.” One of evolution’s best features is that it does not need a higher being. The laws of physics can keep evolution rolling just fine. The idea of a higher being raises more questions than it answers (a being capable of creating life must be far more complex than the life it creates, where did it come from?) To quote Occam’s razor “the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.”

Agreed, but just because it doesn’t need, doesn’t mean it’s not there. Some believe,or even just feel more comfortable believing that we arrived where we are today with a little bit of guidance. It’s a hell of a lot more comforting than survival of the fittest.

As far as ” The idea of a higher being raises more questions than it answers (a being capable of creating life must be far more complex than the life it creates, where did it come from?)”

Completely agreed, and science has it’s own contradictory questions. The origin of the universe. If nothing was there before, how was something created? It was all energy you say? Well where did that come from?
Honestly, it’s the same basic question: What came first, the chicken, or the egg.

Yes, what science bases their beliefs on have proof. Faith is just like like what I said above, sometimes you just have to cross your fingers and hope..

Assuming all who are faithful are incapable of learning and accepting new ideas is just as insulting as assuming the entire scientific community is incapable of presenting unbiased data…much like this graph seems to be. Don't let a few zealots (of EITHER group) ruin it for the rest. Just like pak2rat, I also see science and my faith as equal partners in my worldview. I'm actually disappointed.

Faith is pathetic, Watch the New Movie Religeous.. u will get an idea of how stupid the top 3 religeons are, and how scary it can be.. muslims, christan, chatolic '' a passage from a muslim belife, there must be much bloodshed for the appocolypse''.. so u can bet that in 2012 there is gonna be alot of mass murder cnsidering there is 1 billion muslims '' this movie sums everything in a tight easily understood Manner, the guy is an '' enlightened one.. as i like to put it, he owns u faith loosers so Hard :D.. im content being happy before i die, no Special place for me.. im enjoying my LIFE… no my Deathlife? lol

Assuming all who are faithful are incapable of learning and accepting new ideas is just as insulting as assuming the entire scientific community is incapable of presenting unbiased data…much like this graph seems to be. Don’t let a few zealots (of EITHER group) ruin it for the rest. Just like pak2rat, I also see science and my faith as equal partners in my worldview. I’m actually disappointed.

Faith is pathetic, Watch the New Movie Religeous.. u will get an idea of how stupid the top 3 religeons are, and how scary it can be.. muslims, christan, chatolic ” a passage from a muslim belife, there must be much bloodshed for the appocolypse”.. so u can bet that in 2012 there is gonna be alot of mass murder cnsidering there is 1 billion muslims ” this movie sums everything in a tight easily understood Manner, the guy is an ” enlightened one.. as i like to put it, he owns u faith loosers so Hard :D.. im content being happy before i die, no Special place for me.. im enjoying my LIFE… no my Deathlife? lol

I have no idea what you just said. Hopefully you can listen better than you can type (although I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in that movie–I saw it too, and found it to be pure drivel; mindless advertising. Then again, you might be the target audience…)

Has anyone brought up the story yet of Horus? 2500 BC his story is almost identical to Jesus. Whether Horus was real or not the fact is, the 2 compare is more than just a coincidence. Besides, I was a Christian for 25 years and never Jesus, Angels or anything and yet I was expected to believe, on faith, that they existed. Sorry, Science is more proving IMO

Has anyone brought up the story yet of Horus? 2500 BC his story is almost identical to Jesus. Whether Horus was real or not the fact is, the 2 compare is more than just a coincidence. Besides, I was a Christian for 25 years and never Jesus, Angels or anything and yet I was expected to believe, on faith, that they existed. Sorry, Science is more proving IMO

That assertion has never been proven. There is no correlation between Horus and Jesus Christ, no where in the mythologies concerning any of the Horuses (and there are multiple Gods name Horus that existed at different times in Egyptian mythology) that corresponds to Jesus. That view has never substantiated by an Egyptologist, by any Archaeologist, by any theologian or by anyone who as actually read Egyptian mythology. It is a false assertion in one book that, like the vomit it is, got regurgitated in that idiotic film Zeitgeist. Protip: actually study the things you speak of lest you be proved a fool, and that applies to science as well as religion, you know, actually read the books and mythologies before talking about them, just like you would perform the experiment before telling people the results.

Based on the opinions above, it does give the impression of ridicule when certain obvious religious symbols are used, in red no less, sprinkled around the box stating "Ignore Contradicting Evidence". Religion is always going to be faith-based, and will always contain elements that cannot be scientifically proven. I don't believe that means that people chose to 'ignore contradicting evidence', just that they also hold faith that certain things are true without yet being proven. :) I mean, Columbus thought the world was flat…

But you prove the point there… Once evidence showed the theory was wrong, the theory changed to match the evidence. If it was faith based… Then faith would still hold that the earth is flat despite evidence that proves otherwise.

Based on the opinions above, it does give the impression of ridicule when certain obvious religious symbols are used, in red no less, sprinkled around the box stating “Ignore Contradicting Evidence”. Religion is always going to be faith-based, and will always contain elements that cannot be scientifically proven. I don’t believe that means that people chose to ‘ignore contradicting evidence’, just that they also hold faith that certain things are true without yet being proven. :) I mean, Columbus thought the world was flat…

But you prove the point there… Once evidence showed the theory was wrong, the theory changed to match the evidence. If it was faith based… Then faith would still hold that the earth is flat despite evidence that proves otherwise.

I'm not offended, as the general whole follows what's up there. I'm Orthodox Christian, and we tend to teach that science helps to reveal things about God, how He did things, etc. (This isn't to say the whole of Orthodox Christians wouldn't be offended, but I'm not, because I "get it".)

Faith is not ignoring contrary evidence, though. Mass religion, which is what you illustrate in part of the picture labeled "Faith", can be said to ignore it, though. In my life I have have evidence of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit. There are too many Saints' Lives that give evidence of faith. Is there evidence contrary to my religion? There are those that say so. Is there evidence contrary to some scientific theories? There must be, otherwise they would be Scientific Law.

The main problem here, is that you're trying to compare two things that are incomparable. Do I believe an omnipotent God created the universe? Yes. Does that mean the Big Bang Theory is out? No, it may explain how things happened. A lot of things that are done in religion are used to explain other things in the religion (God resting is an allegory for the crucifixion, death, and resurrection for Christ; the Flood is an allegory for baptism, though it may have been a real geo-historical event; 7 days for creation mean seven days for the week, and the Sabbath, the 7th day, is a day for rest; etc.). Putting the two side-by-side as modern Secular culture wants us to do is like setting PEX pipe next to an apple seed and trying to compare them.

I’m not offended, as the general whole follows what’s up there. I’m Orthodox Christian, and we tend to teach that science helps to reveal things about God, how He did things, etc. (This isn’t to say the whole of Orthodox Christians wouldn’t be offended, but I’m not, because I “get it”.)

Faith is not ignoring contrary evidence, though. Mass religion, which is what you illustrate in part of the picture labeled “Faith”, can be said to ignore it, though. In my life I have have evidence of God, Christ, the Holy Spirit. There are too many Saints’ Lives that give evidence of faith. Is there evidence contrary to my religion? There are those that say so. Is there evidence contrary to some scientific theories? There must be, otherwise they would be Scientific Law.

The main problem here, is that you’re trying to compare two things that are incomparable. Do I believe an omnipotent God created the universe? Yes. Does that mean the Big Bang Theory is out? No, it may explain how things happened. A lot of things that are done in religion are used to explain other things in the religion (God resting is an allegory for the crucifixion, death, and resurrection for Christ; the Flood is an allegory for baptism, though it may have been a real geo-historical event; 7 days for creation mean seven days for the week, and the Sabbath, the 7th day, is a day for rest; etc.). Putting the two side-by-side as modern Secular culture wants us to do is like setting PEX pipe next to an apple seed and trying to compare them.

The thing that bothers me about this is that it dismisses all people of faith as being unthinking – and somehow, I am closed-minded. This just furthers the polarization of the two sides. I am disappointed by this post, I thought this site was above this kind of petty dirt-throwing.

The thing that bothers me about this is that it dismisses all people of faith as being unthinking – and somehow, I am closed-minded. This just furthers the polarization of the two sides. I am disappointed by this post, I thought this site was above this kind of petty dirt-throwing.

I agree. This is a polarizing and inaccurate portrayal on both sides. Scientists cling to their theories just as much as Believers cling to their faith.

It also discounts the standard understanding progressive Christians have of the Bible, which is that our understanding of God has grown from mere tribalism (i.e. My God can kick your god's ass) to a murky monotheism (Your God is also my God and we have to meet in the common area) to a mysticism (God is so incomprehensible the only thing we can say for sure is that God is good. Imagine all the horrors Lovecraft wrote about. Go to their polar opposite. That's what it's like to experience God.)

I will admit, the flow of Science is at least the ideal of the scientific process.

I agree. This is a polarizing and inaccurate portrayal on both sides. Scientists cling to their theories just as much as Believers cling to their faith.

It also discounts the standard understanding progressive Christians have of the Bible, which is that our understanding of God has grown from mere tribalism (i.e. My God can kick your god’s ass) to a murky monotheism (Your God is also my God and we have to meet in the common area) to a mysticism (God is so incomprehensible the only thing we can say for sure is that God is good. Imagine all the horrors Lovecraft wrote about. Go to their polar opposite. That’s what it’s like to experience God.)

I will admit, the flow of Science is at least the ideal of the scientific process.

I will not claim to have all the answers as I believe no one really has absolute irrefutable proof to either prove or disprove the existence of God. The free will and ability to study this is what is wonderful from my perspective. Faith implies a leap into a realm of the not known. That being said, many scientific discoveries, if not all, where made by brilliant people who opted to not take for granted that which was commonly accepted as "the truth". I believe that if one is to truly be scientific in their way of thinking one must have an openness to believe that some conceptions we have must be constantly questioned and placed in doubt. If not science would have had us at one time never eat tomatoes as they where considered poisonous and we'd all still believe that the earth was flat and the sun turned around the earth!

I can tell you all one thing having traveled around the world quite extensively… there is one critical thing that Faith can give that science alone will never be able to provide and that is the capacity to "deal and cope" with the difficulties that this life sometimes puts us through… Rarely have I seen people in suffering rest their hopes on science alone having a faith in a greater purpose helps these poor souls strive for something better!

Just my 2 cents, as I said, I do not claim to know better than anyone else, I simply wish people would stop mud slinging in either direction. :-)

The flaw which I see in most people that oppose religious beliefs is that they focus only on the religious organizations and the people that oppose the scientific words. Perhaps not realizing that it's more likely that 90% of religious people enjoy both science and religion in good harmony.

It does appear though, that we have zealous people from both sides. Which, if I may point out, is what brings certain countries to war(even though in those cases it's usually about oppsing religion)

So, how do you differentiate between a leap into the unknown, and something that is entirely baseless or ridiculous? Joseph Smith founded an entire religion by looking at stones in the bottom of a hat. The old and new testaments both contain religious mandates that are senseless (work on Sunday and you should be stoned to death).

The Koran speaks of rivers of milk, honey and cool water. Shade so vast that a rider could travel 100 miles and not leave it.

Really. Doesn't all this seem human-centric? Written at a time, and in a place where all this was important in the world of man?

Totally agree that we must always be open to questioning the body of scientific evidence (based on new evidence or a hypothesis). And that is part of critical thinking, and the basis of scientific thought.

But religion asks that you check your brain at the door. Try asking your religious leader the questions that naturally arise starting at age 9 and you'll likely get a smile, a shrug and, "god moves in mysterious ways". Uh huh. That's a better gig than being a weatherman.

The Simpson's had a great episode where the children in sunday school were asking questions about heaven, after being told that animals don't go to heaven. Bart's parting question is, "What about a robot with a human brain?" at which point the teacher pleads for a "little blind faith".

I suppose you can make up your own twist on religion. Many people choose not to believe in hell, despite the apparent biblical references to the contrary. But if you're going to create your own religious mash-up, then you've really come full circle to just making stuff up because it suits you.

Religions were created by man; the artifacts of religion reflect mankind. Our fingerprints are all over them.

Certainly there are many wonderful, bright people that are religious. I don't begrudge them in their beliefs as long as they don't interfere with my life, but I do encourage people to use their powers of reason. If there is a god, and god gave us the power of reason, then wouldn't god be disappointed if we didn't use it?

There are people devoting significant portions of their lives to looking for golden plates, timbers from the ark for Pete's sake. It's on a par with the belief that the plague was god's punishment for blasphemy.

Most troubling is that these quirky beliefs literally threaten the lives of the rest of us. Daily we read about people that are willing to don vests of plastic explosives and blow themselves, and hundreds of innocents, to bits because of their religious beliefs.

I will not claim to have all the answers as I believe no one really has absolute irrefutable proof to either prove or disprove the existence of God. The free will and ability to study this is what is wonderful from my perspective. Faith implies a leap into a realm of the not known. That being said, many scientific discoveries, if not all, where made by brilliant people who opted to not take for granted that which was commonly accepted as “the truth”. I believe that if one is to truly be scientific in their way of thinking one must have an openness to believe that some conceptions we have must be constantly questioned and placed in doubt. If not science would have had us at one time never eat tomatoes as they where considered poisonous and we’d all still believe that the earth was flat and the sun turned around the earth!

I can tell you all one thing having traveled around the world quite extensively… there is one critical thing that Faith can give that science alone will never be able to provide and that is the capacity to “deal and cope” with the difficulties that this life sometimes puts us through… Rarely have I seen people in suffering rest their hopes on science alone having a faith in a greater purpose helps these poor souls strive for something better!

Just my 2 cents, as I said, I do not claim to know better than anyone else, I simply wish people would stop mud slinging in either direction. :-)

The flaw which I see in most people that oppose religious beliefs is that they focus only on the religious organizations and the people that oppose the scientific words. Perhaps not realizing that it's more likely that 90% of religious people enjoy both science and religion in good harmony.

It does appear though, that we have zealous people from both sides. Which, if I may point out, is what brings certain countries to war(even though in those cases it's usually about oppsing religion)

So, how do you differentiate between a leap into the unknown, and something that is entirely baseless or ridiculous? Joseph Smith founded an entire religion by looking at stones in the bottom of a hat. The old and new testaments both contain religious mandates that are senseless (work on Sunday and you should be stoned to death).

The Koran speaks of rivers of milk, honey and cool water. Shade so vast that a rider could travel 100 miles and not leave it.

Really. Doesn’t all this seem human-centric? Written at a time, and in a place where all this was important in the world of man?

Totally agree that we must always be open to questioning the body of scientific evidence (based on new evidence or a hypothesis). And that is part of critical thinking, and the basis of scientific thought.

But religion asks that you check your brain at the door. Try asking your religious leader the questions that naturally arise starting at age 9 and you’ll likely get a smile, a shrug and, “god moves in mysterious ways”. Uh huh. That’s a better gig than being a weatherman.

The Simpson’s had a great episode where the children in sunday school were asking questions about heaven, after being told that animals don’t go to heaven. Bart’s parting question is, “What about a robot with a human brain?” at which point the teacher pleads for a “little blind faith”.

I suppose you can make up your own twist on religion. Many people choose not to believe in hell, despite the apparent biblical references to the contrary. But if you’re going to create your own religious mash-up, then you’ve really come full circle to just making stuff up because it suits you.

Religions were created by man; the artifacts of religion reflect mankind. Our fingerprints are all over them.

Certainly there are many wonderful, bright people that are religious. I don’t begrudge them in their beliefs as long as they don’t interfere with my life, but I do encourage people to use their powers of reason. If there is a god, and god gave us the power of reason, then wouldn’t god be disappointed if we didn’t use it?

There are people devoting significant portions of their lives to looking for golden plates, timbers from the ark for Pete’s sake. It’s on a par with the belief that the plague was god’s punishment for blasphemy.

Most troubling is that these quirky beliefs literally threaten the lives of the rest of us. Daily we read about people that are willing to don vests of plastic explosives and blow themselves, and hundreds of innocents, to bits because of their religious beliefs.

So, how do you differentiate between a leap into the unknown, and something that is entirely baseless or ridiculous? Joseph Smith founded an entire religion by looking at stones in the bottom of a hat. The old and new testaments both contain religious mandates that are senseless (work on Sunday and you should be stoned to death).

The Koran speaks of rivers of milk, honey and cool water. Shade so vast that a rider could travel 100 miles and not leave it.

Really. Doesn’t all this seem human-centric? Written at a time, and in a place where all this was important in the world of man?

Totally agree that we must always be open to questioning the body of scientific evidence (based on new evidence or a hypothesis). And that is part of critical thinking, and the basis of scientific thought.

But religion asks that you check your brain at the door. Try asking your religious leader the questions that naturally arise starting at age 9 and you’ll likely get a smile, a shrug and, “god moves in mysterious ways”. Uh huh. That’s a better gig than being a weatherman.

The Simpson’s had a great episode where the children in sunday school were asking questions about heaven, after being told that animals don’t go to heaven. Bart’s parting question is, “What about a robot with a human brain?” at which point the teacher pleads for a “little blind faith”.

I suppose you can make up your own twist on religion. Many people choose not to believe in hell, despite the apparent biblical references to the contrary. But if you’re going to create your own religious mash-up, then you’ve really come full circle to just making stuff up because it suits you.

Religions were created by man; the artifacts of religion reflect mankind. Our fingerprints are all over them.

Certainly there are many wonderful, bright people that are religious. I don’t begrudge them in their beliefs as long as they don’t interfere with my life, but I do encourage people to use their powers of reason. If there is a god, and god gave us the power of reason, then wouldn’t god be disappointed if we didn’t use it?

There are people devoting significant portions of their lives to looking for golden plates, timbers from the ark for Pete’s sake. It’s on a par with the belief that the plague was god’s punishment for blasphemy.

Most troubling is that these quirky beliefs literally threaten the lives of the rest of us. Daily we read about people that are willing to don vests of plastic explosives and blow themselves, and hundreds of innocents, to bits because of their religious beliefs.

Did you mean this to be offensive? If you did: SUCCESS. Congratulations.

As a scientist who also has faith, and knowing many others who are the same, I really don't comprehend the logic behind this image. This is flat-out fallacious. Try again. Your experiment is a failure.

I believe that science BACKS UP the proof of God's existence if nothing else. I also believe God created the evolutionary process to let life improve itself so he wouldn't have to. To me, that's intelligent design. To say that the faithful reject all scientific claims because they contradict the existence of God is complete hokum. One must remember too: believers far outnumber non-believers in this world, so it is safe to assume that either there are more people of faith in the sciences than we all actually know, or that scientists, like non believers, are generally a minority group in ways of thought.

Frankly, I think the person who posted this thinking it was funny ought to be ashamed of his/herself for this abominable image. It is neither amusing nor cute. It is merely narrow minded and stupid. For shame, G.A.S., for shame… :(

Did you mean this to be offensive? If you did: SUCCESS. Congratulations.

As a scientist who also has faith, and knowing many others who are the same, I really don’t comprehend the logic behind this image. This is flat-out fallacious. Try again. Your experiment is a failure.

I believe that science BACKS UP the proof of God’s existence if nothing else. I also believe God created the evolutionary process to let life improve itself so he wouldn’t have to. To me, that’s intelligent design. To say that the faithful reject all scientific claims because they contradict the existence of God is complete hokum. One must remember too: believers far outnumber non-believers in this world, so it is safe to assume that either there are more people of faith in the sciences than we all actually know, or that scientists, like non believers, are generally a minority group in ways of thought.

Frankly, I think the person who posted this thinking it was funny ought to be ashamed of his/herself for this abominable image. It is neither amusing nor cute. It is merely narrow minded and stupid. For shame, G.A.S., for shame… :(

In the words of Jimmy Carr: “There are some people who thought that joke was funny. Then there’s another group which will be going to heaven.”
I know a lot of people are going to end up in hell. But posting this on a Sunday? You’re practically sprinting there!

I am in no way saying that any religious literature is correct but you are acting like it’s entirely different to listen to a man of science that only says(without any proof) that religious stories are fairy tales.

I am a man of science and religion, this I openly admit. And again I feel I must remind you that not all religious people have an open mind towards science. Much like your mind seems entirely closed off towards religion.

I believe in evolution, I believe in science and I believe that there is more to life than science today can prove.

Be that as it may, any openly accessible website that posts any sort of religion vs. science content is bound to see a lot of discussion. Sadly, mostly negative.

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a shit. Doesn't give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”, because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t give a shit. Doesn’t give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn’t give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can’t see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I’m big on that. If I can see something, I don’t know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we’re not setting people on fire simply because they don’t agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There’s no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don’t have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I’m unworthy. Doesn’t tell me I’m a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn’t said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don’t pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn’t presume on our friendship. It’s not polite.

I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don’t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It’s not nice. And it’s no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you’d really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you’d have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?

And here’s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don’t pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he’s a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn’t fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I’ve been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don’t. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit’s foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat’s testicles, it’s all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that’s a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I’m sure you’ll like that. Then there’s Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn’t care for, by the way. And finally, I’ve always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” That’s because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I’m gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody’s okay? All right, tell you what, I’ll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I’ve got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I’m blind. I’m blind, oh, now I’m okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

1. See picture on internet
2. Be offended
3. Write 10 paragraph long discourse on why other people are wrong
4. Wait for response, refreshing page
5. Write more paragraphs about why people are wrong about you
6. Rinse, repeat

Wow. Seeing this thread reminds me of that old saying that compares arguing on the internet to being in the special olympics.

It seems to me that real rational thinkers would have either: 1.) Stayed the hell away from this thread because it was painfully obvious what would happen and, being rational, know it's not worth their time; Or, 2.) Stop in simply to laugh at the absurdity and wonder why so many people care so much about telling other people what to believe.

And the real kicker here: it's the science folks who are pushing their worldview, not the religious! WTF? Isn't that backwards? The faith-defenders are like, "hey, science and faith can co-exist and I choose to believe they do so don't hassle me about it" while the faith-haters are all, "No, you're an idiot, they can't coexist, and here's a twenty paragraph refutation why, based on very rudimentary understandings of religions, and broad generalizations that usually don't even apply on the individual level!"

Has this world gone mad?

On a more serious note, serious props to those of you who have actually posted respectfully, and in a way that expresses your view without being degrading or offensive. It's not easy to do with subjects like this. I'm honestly baffled as to why such a picture would be posted here, except to incite a flame war. I guess the staff at GaS are either sadists at heart, or evil geniuses.

"Dance, puppets! Dance! Mwa ha ha ha ha!"

Really, who cares what we all believe? You're all missing the point. If we're at this site, then we're obviously united in the best way possible: we're all geeks at heart. That's all that should matter.

hahaha, nicely put, I like this, and yes, the world has gone mad. Yes you can still find those that are religious and refuse to think anything else is right, but those are usually the people who have money in such things being true, most people who are religious are actually open minded now, where it is those that covet science that are starting to slide into the realm of what I say is always right and you are all religious nutbags. The funniest part of it all is this, the main thing you should learn from science is to embrace other ideals as possibility, but now it's become a big shouting match (No, my theory is right! No mine is!). I actually wonder what has happened that has caused this flip…

Wow. Seeing this thread reminds me of that old saying that compares arguing on the internet to being in the special olympics.

It seems to me that real rational thinkers would have either: 1.) Stayed the hell away from this thread because it was painfully obvious what would happen and, being rational, know it’s not worth their time; Or, 2.) Stop in simply to laugh at the absurdity and wonder why so many people care so much about telling other people what to believe.

And the real kicker here: it’s the science folks who are pushing their worldview, not the religious! WTF? Isn’t that backwards? The faith-defenders are like, “hey, science and faith can co-exist and I choose to believe they do so don’t hassle me about it” while the faith-haters are all, “No, you’re an idiot, they can’t coexist, and here’s a twenty paragraph refutation why, based on very rudimentary understandings of religions, and broad generalizations that usually don’t even apply on the individual level!”

Has this world gone mad?

On a more serious note, serious props to those of you who have actually posted respectfully, and in a way that expresses your view without being degrading or offensive. It’s not easy to do with subjects like this. I’m honestly baffled as to why such a picture would be posted here, except to incite a flame war. I guess the staff at GaS are either sadists at heart, or evil geniuses.

“Dance, puppets! Dance! Mwa ha ha ha ha!”

Really, who cares what we all believe? You’re all missing the point. If we’re at this site, then we’re obviously united in the best way possible: we’re all geeks at heart. That’s all that should matter.

Wow, some people here are totally not getting it. Faith means belief without proof. You can be religious and still want proof. Though, then I would argue that claiming to be "a person of faith" is false. Usually when people say this, they're pretending that "person of faith" is a euphemism for "Christian." Guess what? IT'S NOT! Lots of other religions have faiths too!

Wow, some people here are totally not getting it. Faith means belief without proof. You can be religious and still want proof. Though, then I would argue that claiming to be “a person of faith” is false. Usually when people say this, they’re pretending that “person of faith” is a euphemism for “Christian.” Guess what? IT’S NOT! Lots of other religions have faiths too!

My ears are ringing from the piercing sound of all the Christians whining about that picture even though it's a precise and accurate description of how faith works.

People just don't like to face the truth in unvarnished form. They want the spin-doctored version. They don't mind when someone says something like "You have to step away from the false wisdom of the world and embrace the truth of God" and repackages it in a more honest form like "You have to ignore logic and believe in your Bronze Age sky fairy no matter what the evidence says". It's actually the exact same sentiment; it's just expressed differently.

My ears are ringing from the piercing sound of all the Christians whining about that picture even though it’s a precise and accurate description of how faith works.

People just don’t like to face the truth in unvarnished form. They want the spin-doctored version. They don’t mind when someone says something like “You have to step away from the false wisdom of the world and embrace the truth of God” and repackages it in a more honest form like “You have to ignore logic and believe in your Bronze Age sky fairy no matter what the evidence says”. It’s actually the exact same sentiment; it’s just expressed differently.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen. First it pressumes God is imagined by man without proof to support that. Second it claims that there is evidence to contradict the Bible. Show me some. I challenge you.

Third, the model for science also begins with an "idea". Then, according to the model, it rejects the idea in favor of a better one, then finds something to support it, and turns it into a theory.

It then uses this theory, not fact, to better understand the universe. What? And because it's just a theory, it either rejects it again or modifies it.

Is science really the more logical thing to put your faith in? That makes more sense than the thing that hasn't changed since it began? Doesn't make sense to me.

I have found that faith is stronger than science in many ways. Mr. Tesla himself proves this. Tesla was laughed at and told he would never go anywhere by those who follow science, he was told Alternating current was impossible, that it was a perpetual motion scheme, by one of his professors, he was told by Edison he couldn't use the lights he designed for the fair of lights in chicago and everyone thought that was the end, scientifically he couldn't make a new type of lightbulb, and the list just keeps going. Infact, almost everything Tesla did he was told he couldn't do by the scientific community, but he had faith that his ideas could come to fruition and they did. Even to this day there are people that say there is no scientific way that many of his unfinished ideas could ever work, but it was his work that that gave us lasers, radio, internet, and many other things, and all of this he did many many years before it was even dreamed of. To the day he died he had faith that he could find a way to ionize the stratosphere and thus create a self replenishing source of electrical power that everyone could tap into, and to this day everyone laughs and says that isn't possible. I think Mr. Tesla proves that a little faith can go a long way, while the scientific community will laugh at and ridicule anything that it thinks is impossible or that it doesn't understand.