Why don't we give the match directors, clubs etc the CHOICE of either running a RP match or a TT match.?

instead of forcing them to run a particular scoring method?

we have plenty of choice sometimes when it comes to shooting stages these days!

Just my thoughts

Hello my dear friend,

I have read that argument before. The counter to it was that all Championship matches should use the same scoring method. Previously, State Matches were free to choose. Annuals below that are still free to choose. However, I think that this will encourage them to switch to TT if they were not using it already. Monthly and Annual matches may still select either scoring method.

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Interests:Love the outdoors including hunting, fishing, shooting anything that smells of gun powder. Around the sport of wrestling most of life. SASS is a new adventure in my life. Watch for Cody James and SASS Kicker.

I have read that argument before. The counter to it was that all Championship matches should use the same scoring method. Previously, State Matches were free to choose. Annuals below that are still free to choose. However, I think that this will encourage them to switch to TT if they were not using it already. Monthly and Annual matches may still select either scoring method.

Regards,

Allie

I believe that some state matches that were using RP would have also followed the bigger matches when they change to TT. I don't personally feel that the Wild Bunch had to force them through a mandate.

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When it comes to ties in total time what are the rules as to how a tie is broken? I just went through the scores for EOT 2017 and of the 600 + shooters there wasn't any ties. When we had a tie with rank points we then used total time as the tie breaker. If any body has answer to tie breaking in total time please let me know.

In the SASS scoring program you have the two options, Number of shots on a stage + so many seconds. (you have to put the number of shoots per stages in the system, this is part of the match setup). Option two is to take the slowest time on the stage + so many seconds, this sometimes can cause problems when a shooter has a gun malfunction and there score is in the 160 second range, then the SDQ would end up somewhere above the 160 depending on the number of seconds you added.

But like mentioned earlier with the number of shots + so many seconds a SDQ would end up with less time then the shooter with the gun malfunction. What ever the answer is the SASS scoring program will be changed to handle it.

There is no decision here. Only an interesting discussion. While PWB pointed out there was a tie in total time at a match as far as CD Tom was able to report he has never seen a tie in total time. So one tie in hundreds of thousands of scores isn't enough to worry about.

The problem here is we have made TT mandatory immediately. Yet, there are issues that have not been resolved. This rush to change has flaws that have not been addressed. To think that a tie will never happen is fool hearty. A shoot-off is not possible in some matches because the ranges may have been cleared and awards presentations are on a time schedule that does not permit a shoot off. I am not in support of two State Champions so dual winners is not the right answer. Protocol for ties is needed. Because we do not have a viable TG voting process to make decisions that involves the membership. Someone else is making these decisions for the membership.

You are not in support of two state champions, and that makes dual winners not right? Maybe others disagree with you, does that make them wrong them?

No it does not make them wrong. The additional cost for duplicate awards, may not be in a small state shoot budget or in a US Championship budget. I cannot think of any other major sports that has a tie.

There is certainly a way to decide how to break a tie but my overall concern is the same. Who is making these decisions? The TG voting process is not in place any longer. Without an organized voting process, the general membership has no voice in how new rules are developed. It appears that these decisions are being made at TG meetings at Winter Ranger and EOT. This leaves the vast majority of clubs out of the process. My opinion is that is wrong.

FWIW..........we just had our 1st match using total time this past Saturday, the 15th. We always used rank points previously. We use the SASS scoring program.

We had a tie, the exact same time for 2 shooters. They were shooters 11 and 12th in the overall. The SASS program apparently picked at random who was 11th and who was 12th.

When I read the scores I announced they were tied for 11th and I moved shooters 13-30 up a place to 12-29.

When you change the set up of the match from rank to total time, no rank points are displayed anymore, so there's no way to break a tie by looking at the rank points.

Another side note, most shooters didn't care one way or the other with the change, some expressed they really liked it but 1 shooter really hated the change and told me of his displeasure allllll daaaayyyyy long..jeesh.

FWIW..........we just had our 1st match using total time this past Saturday, the 15th. We always used rank points previously. We use the SASS scoring program.

We had a tie, the exact same time for 2 shooters. They were shooters 11 and 12th in the overall. The SASS program apparently picked at random who was 11th and who was 12th.

When I read the scores I announced they were tied for 11th and I moved shooters 13-30 up a place to 12-29.

When you change the set up of the match from rank to total time, no rank points are displayed anymore, so there's no way to break a tie by looking at the rank points.

Another side note, most shooters didn't care one way or the other with the change, some expressed they really liked it but 1 shooter really hated the change and told me of his displeasure allllll daaaayyyyy long..jeesh.

Do an export of the match file to excel. It will show the rank placement for each stage.

I've used it for several years that way and you can still see the rank score if you want. Folks still like to see how they placed on each stage and the rank shows that. I replace the total Rank column with the total misses for the match as that is helpful for folks as well.

But the data is all there, just doesn't show up on the abbreviated pdf score sheet.