CCI Creditation vs ARDMS creditation

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ano
in New York, New York

71 months ago

Sarah Pollard in Fayetteville, North Carolina said: Please can any one tell me why to gain a job as an echo sonograher in America i have to be certified? I am FULLY accredited with the British Society of Echo cardiography and can legally scan and report my own echos and report other non-accredited sonograhers scans in the UK without the input of a Doctor. The BSE is a very intense 3 hour exam with a great deal of 'current' echo questions not like the CCI exam which was mainly questions on physics, stress echo and TOE! also with the BSE you have to submit a log book of 250 scans of varying pathologies including a report to show scanning competence and knowledge. The CCI exam really doesn't show scanning knowledge or ability, i wonder if it is a money making scheme?!?

You don't have to be certified, but most places prefer that you are. Some insurance companies only pay for the scan if the sonographer is certified. You need to look at the ARDMS exam, not the CCI. It is preferred. There is a physics exam and an echo exam

In my opinion the CCI vs. ARDMS is strictly political. This has been a turf battle for over 20 years. I chose CCI 25 years ago as it was the only organization at the time that recognized echocardiography. The ARDMS has greater political clout and has a broader recognition, but CCI is gaining on them quickly. I would suggest CCI as that is a pure cardiovascular organization and includes all invasive and non-invasive modalities. Many of the ARDMS leaders also hold CCI registries. It is also interesting that both organization are home-based in the same geographic area.

CCI has very broad acceptance and, besides, on the application, just say you are "registered". All the registry shows is that you have didactic knowledge - the true test is whether you have the honds-on skills...

gnommedeplume said: In my opinion the CCI vs. ARDMS is strictly political. This has been a turf battle for over 20 years. I chose CCI 25 years ago as it was the only organization at the time that recognized echocardiography. The ARDMS has greater political clout and has a broader recognition, but CCI is gaining on them quickly. I would suggest CCI as that is a pure cardiovascular organization and includes all invasive and non-invasive modalities. Many of the ARDMS leaders also hold CCI registries. It is also interesting that both organization are home-based in the same geographic area.

CCI has very broad acceptance and, besides, on the application, just say you are "registered". All the registry shows is that you have didactic knowledge - the true test is whether you have the honds-on skills...

Would you recommend someone in a echo program to be certified
in both?

Orinda in Los Angeles, California said: Would you recommend someone in a echo program to be certified
in both?

I certainly recommend both if you can do it. The exams are quite similar and if you pass one, you should also pass the other without any additional study. Although, as I mentioned, only one is really needed to open doors. As someone else mentioned, it is not a requirement to work (i.e. a license), but more and more facilities state the necessity for insurance reasons, etc. It is an issue of having some sort of measuring stick for quality.

As for the BSE question: I am seeking employment in the UK and have come up against the same thing in reverse. Shouldn't my US credentials be accepted in the UK? Unfortunately, no. So I am pursuing BSE accreditation as well as RCCP. Each organiztion makes their own rules...

In my opinion the ARDMS has become too much like a federal government agency. Used to be better when in earlier years it was smaller and more sonographer friendly. Now they single you out for audits with CME's credits instead of just submitting them like years ago. Audits? WTH is this the IRS? IMO the ARDMS does NOTHING for sonographers other than require them to pay dues and administer exams (rather pricey too) so they can book keep your credential(s). Overregulation while they make you pay for the 'privlege'. Yeppers--- they are located too close to DC--probably employ some ex-IRS agents too.

ARDMS, if you need help with your application, CME's or anything forget it. They don't have time for you. CCI has been willing to help everytime I have called.

ARDMS 2 part test, CCI 1 part. CCI has less useless physics that the ARDMS does.... The stuff you learn it to test, then forget it.

Summary of my story, Its a no brainer go for CCI. If people say any differently, they are just stupid or uneducated. Or they are Rooting for ARDMS because they are RVT and are biased. Or they are uneducated and don't understand that by ICAVL's standards, you can go 3 routes, ARDMS, CCI or ARRT to get a vascular registry.

Here's another thought......

Your looking for another tech for your department, one is RVS (CCI), the other is ARDMS (RVT) who has to retake their registry in two years because you have to take it every 10 years for ARDMS. Soon they are saying you will HAVE to be registered to work.
Potentially if the RVT doesn't pass in two years, you couldn't use them..... I wouldn't want to be the tech in that position, nor the person highering them.

Someone please come with something more valid than ARDMS has been around longer, I mean come on.

Its like a old tube TV and a new LCD TV. The new LCD/CCI, gives you better pictures, gives your more to work with, gives you less problems, costs less in the long run, LCD/CCI you can actually find someone to help if you need help. LOL

I suppose the key to American preference with ARDMS is that it is a more in depth examination. A lot of people seem to think the physics is useless, but in fact it is the physics that lets us make useful images for the radiologists. Fine tuning the temporal resolution by adjusting the line density, depth, and focal zone(s) is what lets us show a nice clean gallbladder vs. a good fetal 4ch heart. I suppose if you are only going to use 1 machine forever so you can just memorize buttons, you don't have to understand how the machines work, but if you change machines frequently, the physics is essential. Also, ARDMS requires sonographers to prove that they have continued to learn with their specialty by requiring retesting periodically.

CCI lets people take an exam and submit CME's to maintain licensure. There is never any follow up to be sure that these people remain competent even long after the technology and protocols for examinations have changed dramatically.

I disagree on your comments regarding ardms. Me and the staff at my facility have come across numerous RVTs that employed on a prn basis, that were absolutely horrible. They may have know the books, known the physics, but they couldn't scan to save their lives. They passed the Ardms tests and are registered, but it is a high possiblity you could die if they did your test. One particular person, right out of school, registered in general and vascular, had zero scanning skills on her ultrasound program and testing from Ardms. My point is, neither test completely tests people directly on their scanning ability. I feel once you learn to ride a bile fundamentally you always will. Memorizing the us physics gets lost in most peoples minds because you rarely would ever use it in a clinical setting. Ardms doesn't focus a ton on patient care skills bs Cci, which is essential. Bottom line, everyone will have to be test registered.... This doesn't mean that either test directly has better techs, but that's the trend with healthcare, insurance and reimbursement.
Some of the worst techs out there are registered, Rvt and Rvs. But some of the best techs out there aren't registered. Neither test right now had made any changes to make sure people can actually scan. And as far as Ardms goes, taking a test every 10 years, that won't help... Because the same people who couldn't scan in the first place, passed that test initially. And come on, so you really think Ardms is keeping up with the trends and technology? They still have 20 something year old images on their registry! Lol. Btw might have some typos, this was typed on my iPhone.

I don't believe any registration makes you a better sonographer than another. Experience has alot to do combined with personal interest to be better everyday and keep learning something new. Both test are only to find out if you know basic stuff... that's all it is basic.

Tami in Rockford, Illinois said: I suppose the key to American preference with ARDMS is that it is a more in depth examination. A lot of people seem to think the physics is useless, but in fact it is the physics that lets us make useful images for the radiologists. Fine tuning the temporal resolution by adjusting the line density, depth, and focal zone(s) is what lets us show a nice clean gallbladder vs. a good fetal 4ch heart. I suppose if you are only going to use 1 machine forever so you can just memorize buttons, you don't have to understand how the machines work, but if you change machines frequently, the physics is essential. Also, ARDMS requires sonographers to prove that they have continued to learn with their specialty by requiring retesting periodically.

CCI lets people take an exam and submit CME's to maintain licensure. There is never any follow up to be sure that these people remain competent even long after the technology and protocols for examinations have changed dramatically.

As a patient I'd prefer an ARDMS sonographer over a CCI one.

That repeated ARDMS exams improve competence, is pure conjecture and not confirmed any clinical skill analysis. ARDMS may also have a financial stake in mandating repeated exams. And like CCI, the ARDMS can provide no guarantee that their exam assures clinical skill improvement. Ofcourse we assume this is the case, but actually is no hard data by any third party to validate this assumption.

In India a Cardiac Sonographer education is a Bachelor Degree with a required internship of about 1 year. Not only do you do sonography but you also do invasive procedures, stress testing, EKGs, holter monitoring and so on.

I came to the US. Had my degree evaluated and converted (a year long process) by an extremely aggressive US Credentialing Agency to the Equivalent of a US degree.

ARDMS told me that they would not accept my 4 year degree with an internship at an extremely popular Indian Medical College where American Insurance companies sent their patients for heart surgery to the equivalency of a 2 year American Associate Degree in Ultrasound.

CCI allowed me to sit for and take the exam. I passed and now practice Echocardiography as well as Teach students.

Not once did ARDMS answer or return my calls. Every time I called CCI they answered and helped me.

Hi i have a 3 month Locum post in the South UK for an BSE EccoCardiograph can you help? do you know anyone who maybe available.

thanks
Adrian Ellis
adrian.ellis@medacs.com[

QUOTE who="Sarah Pollard in Fayetteville, North Carolina"]Please can any one tell me why to gain a job as an echo sonograher in America i have to be certified? I am FULLY accredited with the British Society of Echo cardiography and can legally scan and report my own echos and report other non-accredited sonograhers scans in the UK without the input of a Doctor. The BSE is a very intense 3 hour exam with a great deal of 'current' echo questions not like the CCI exam which was mainly questions on physics, stress echo and TOE! also with the BSE you have to submit a log book of 250 scans of varying pathologies including a report to show scanning competence and knowledge. The CCI exam really doesn't show scanning knowledge or ability, i wonder if it is a money making scheme?!?

ano in New York, New York said: You don't have to be certified, but most places prefer that you are. Some insurance companies only pay for the scan if the sonographer is certified. You need to look at the ARDMS exam, not the CCI. It is preferred. There is a physics exam and an echo exam

They are both credentialing agencies...that whole thing about CCI vs ARDMS is crazy....CCI is now one exam used to be two. Why would you want to take two exams if you only had to pay and take one. It has physics on there as well. Usually schools push ARDMS because of their accreditation...they have to post numbers of students who become registered that is how they stay accredited!!! I have yet to see any jobs that state.. MUST be ARDMS! They ask ARE YOU REGISTERED. Nothing more. Good luck. Take the test you want. CCI does show knowledge of scanning abiltiy and knowledge of pathology...more cardiac related. CCI is cardiac driven ARDMS is radiology driven...Do some research yourself about both companies.

ARDMS, if you need help with your application, CME's or anything forget it. They don't have time for you. CCI has been willing to help everytime I have called.

ARDMS 2 part test, CCI 1 part. CCI has less useless physics that the ARDMS does.... The stuff you learn it to test, then forget it.

Summary of my story, Its a no brainer go for CCI. If people say any differently, they are just stupid or uneducated. Or they are Rooting for ARDMS because they are RVT and are biased. Or they are uneducated and don't understand that by ICAVL's standards, you can go 3 routes, ARDMS, CCI or ARRT to get a vascular registry.

Here's another thought......

Your looking for another tech for your department, one is RVS (CCI), the other is ARDMS (RVT) who has to retake their registry in two years because you have to take it every 10 years for ARDMS. Soon they are saying you will HAVE to be registered to work.
Potentially if the RVT doesn't pass in two years, you couldn't use them..... I wouldn't want to be the tech in that position, nor the person highering them.

Someone please come with something more valid than ARDMS has been around longer, I mean come on.

I agree totally! some who researches before they speak. I think they are both good agencies but I really believe people should research both before signing their lives away to ARDMS!

Daniel in Mechanicsville, Virginia said: I disagree on your comments regarding ardms. Me and the staff at my facility have come across numerous RVTs that employed on a prn basis, that were absolutely horrible. They may have know the books, known the physics, but they couldn't scan to save their lives. They passed the Ardms tests and are registered, but it is a high possiblity you could die if they did your test. One particular person, right out of school, registered in general and vascular, had zero scanning skills on her ultrasound program and testing from Ardms. My point is, neither test completely tests people directly on their scanning ability. I feel once you learn to ride a bile fundamentally you always will. Memorizing the us physics gets lost in most peoples minds because you rarely would ever use it in a clinical setting. Ardms doesn't focus a ton on patient care skills bs Cci, which is essential. Bottom line, everyone will have to be test registered.... This doesn't mean that either test directly has better techs, but that's the trend with healthcare, insurance and reimbursement.
Some of the worst techs out there are registered, Rvt and Rvs. But some of the best techs out there aren't registered. Neither test right now had made any changes to make sure people can actually scan. And as far as Ardms goes, taking a test every 10 years, that won't help... Because the same people who couldn't scan in the first place, passed that test initially. And come on, so you really think Ardms is keeping up with the trends and technology? They still have 20 something year old images on their registry! Lol. Btw might have some typos, this was typed on my iPhone.

Just read your blog... I am starting my RVT testing now.. Passed the physics and just took the vascular.. speaking of types they had a QA on accuracy question with no correct answer. A+D/A+B+C+D. all 4 multiple choice answer were incorrect. Poor quality work for what they stand for "EXCELLENC

Hi, just have a question.... can I sit for the CCI exam after going to a non-caahep accredited cardiovascular sonography school? When I checked out the website for CCI it didn't mention the program having to be accredited by caahep. CCI specified programs accredited by ACICS, CHEA, and DOE or US Department of Education. Plus the program had to include 800 clinical hours.

thanks! any info will help, just trying to gather information. I live in oregon and my options are limited for sonography programs

Irene in Fort Lauderdale, Florida said: Can someone please specify the difference between CCI and ARDMS. My school recommended it for me but as I search for a job everywhere the employers are asking for the ARDMS preferred.

Hi, just have a question.... can I sit for the CCI exam after going to a non-caahep accredited cardiovascular sonography school? When I checked out the website for CCI it didn't mention the program having to be accredited by caahep. CCI specified programs accredited by ACICS, CHEA, and DOE or US Department of Education. Plus the program had to include 800 clinical hours.

thanks! any info will help, just trying to gather information. I live in oregon and my options are limited for sonography programs

HG in Happy Valley, Oregon said: Hi, just have a question.... can I sit for the CCI exam after going to a non-caahep accredited cardiovascular sonography school? When I checked out the website for CCI it didn't mention the program having to be accredited by caahep. CCI specified programs accredited by ACICS, CHEA, and DOE or US Department of Education. Plus the program had to include 800 clinical hours.

thanks! any info will help, just trying to gather information. I live in oregon and my options are limited for sonography programs

Sarah Pollard in Fayetteville, North Carolina said: Please can any one tell me why to gain a job as an echo sonograher in America i have to be certified? I am FULLY accredited with the British Society of Echo cardiography and can legally scan and report my own echos and report other non-accredited sonograhers scans in the UK without the input of a Doctor. The BSE is a very intense 3 hour exam with a great deal of 'current' echo questions not like the CCI exam which was mainly questions on physics, stress echo and TOE! also with the BSE you have to submit a log book of 250 scans of varying pathologies including a report to show scanning competence and knowledge. The CCI exam really doesn't show scanning knowledge or ability, i wonder if it is a money making scheme?!?

CCI is one of the oldest if not the oldest registry
and reputable in the cardiology community. One needs to remember there are two different standards for technologist in the US and in Europe and while one may think one registry is less stringent than the other one must adopt to the standards of the country of residence CCI is recognized internationally therefore one should not think that this registry is a money making scheme, many professionals and doctors respect this registry because it does not meet your standards it does meet this country's standards of practice and that of others.

remember you decided to come to the US and by that you must accept the standards of the profession within this country

Irene in Fort Lauderdale, Florida said: Can someone please specify the difference between CCI and ARDMS. My school recommended it for me but as I search for a job everywhere the employers are asking for the ARDMS preferred.

Remember both are registries and both meet standards for their specialties they offer. one is not better than the other both are national registries. Employers need to be educated and is our job unfortunately to do so and make them understand that both registries are very good and is based on each employer to accept one or the other.

Actually to Maintain your certification. ARDMS registrants need to pay an annual fee ($60 as of 2010) and get continuing education credits (as of 2010, 30 credits were required within a three-year period) in order to keep their certification current.

I'm not sure about CCI, but I DO know of several people who have been offered positions or secured interviews in both the UK, Canada, and Australia provided that they have their ARDMS prior to starting their positions. So the conjecture that ONLY CCI is internationally recognized is actually false. It really varies from place to place which is accepted, but as for the States, either one is fine to date.

Scarlett.P in Rego Park, New York said: I'm not sure about CCI, but I DO know of several people who have been offered positions or secured interviews in both the UK, Canada, and Australia provided that they have their ARDMS prior to starting their positions. So the conjecture that ONLY CCI is internationally recognized is actually false. It really varies from place to place which is accepted, but as for the States, either one is fine to date.

By the by, no need to call anyone stupid or uneducated simply because they have a preference for one than the other. We're all in the same boat here and just want to keep our jobs.

strduble in Pasadena, California said: i was reading the pre req for ardms...it states pre req 5 that if i am rvs through cci cert i can sit for an ardms certification...does that mean no spi and no one full year work experience???

both are recognized for Echo and Vascular (ICAEL and ICAVL), so reimbursement will happen.

Manager preference.. that's where people start to be specific with getting the ARDMS over CCI (from what I've seen).
-----------------------------

While both share overlapping specialties (Echo and vascular) the ideologies of the organizations are different.

CCI is mainly for Cardiovascular professions. Besides echo and vascular, you have ekg and rhythm analysis certs, Invasive cardiology with cath lab and ep lab credentials, and to take vascular a step forward, CCI offers a credential in phlebology...

ARDMS is mainly for anything ultrasound.

While these 2 overlap in echo and vascular.. they also overlap with other organizations too.

ARDMS's General ultrasound and Vascular overlaps with ARRT's ultrasound and vascular credentials.

Daniel in Mechanicsville, Virginia said: I disagree on your comments regarding ardms. Me and the staff at my facility have come across numerous RVTs that employed on a prn basis, that were absolutely horrible. They may have know the books, known the physics, but they couldn't scan to save their lives. They passed the Ardms tests and are registered, but it is a high possiblity you could die if they did your test. One particular person, right out of school, registered in general and vascular, had zero scanning skills on her ultrasound program and testing from Ardms. My point is, neither test completely tests people directly on their scanning ability. I feel once you learn to ride a bile fundamentally you always will. Memorizing the us physics gets lost in most peoples minds because you rarely would ever use it in a clinical setting. Ardms doesn't focus a ton on patient care skills bs Cci, which is essential. Bottom line, everyone will have to be test registered.... This doesn't mean that either test directly has better techs, but that's the trend with healthcare , insurance and reimbursement.
Some of the worst techs out there are registered, Rvt and Rvs. But some of the best techs out there aren't registered. Neither test right now had made any changes to make sure people can actually scan. And as far as Ardms goes, taking a test every 10 years, that won't help... Because the same people who couldn't scan in the first place, passed that test initially. And come on, so you really think Ardms is keeping up with the trends and technology? They still have 20 something year old images on their registry! Lol. Btw might have some typos, this was typed on my iPhone.

CCI / ARDMS exams has nothing to do with being a good sonographer the key point here is PRACTICE! you can have both certification and be a lousy sonographer you have time scanning I can guarantee you that you will become a good one now if you really love what you do you will be the best!

evanjaline in Chicago, Illinois said: In India a Cardiac Sonographer education is a Bachelor Degree with a required internship of about 1 year. Not only do you do sonography but you also do invasive procedures, stress testing, EKGs, holter monitoring and so on.

I came to the US. Had my degree evaluated and converted (a year long process) by an extremely aggressive US Credentialing Agency to the Equivalent of a US degree.

ARDMS told me that they would not accept my 4 year degree with an internship at an extremely popular Indian Medical College where American Insurance companies sent their patients for heart surgery to the equivalency of a 2 year American Associate Degree in Ultrasound.

CCI allowed me to sit for and take the exam. I passed and now practice Echocardiography as well as Teach students.

Not once did ARDMS answer or return my calls. Every time I called CCI they answered and helped me.

I am planning to attend a non-accredited sonography program but want to make sure that taking the CCI exam will allow me to take the ARDMS exam right away without having to work 1 yr. Is this true?

LJK in Los Angeles, California said: I am planning to attend a non-accredited sonography program but want to make sure that taking the CCI exam will allow me to take the ARDMS exam right away without having to work 1 yr. Is this true?

your wasting your time. Almost all employers want somebody that went to an accredited program with degree and ardms or cci.