Forest is 14 yrs old, and has iris melanoma. He is my bfs cat and has known me for over a year.

Yesterday, I saw him go into the bathroom, I just went to see what he was doing and he heard me so he ran out. I followed him to the kitchen, picked him up and he just let the pee fly!

I did some reading and read that cats pee when they get scared, so I must've scared him somehow, I guess.

I put him in the litter box where he just there for awhile prolly collecting his fur with clumping litter. Although, I did not see a litter covered Forest later so I dunno.

I can't seem to get over the fact that he peed on me, its like the bond is broken for good. He does try to come near me but I don't want him to pee on me ever again.

He is going to the litter fine, so no signs of UTI there, although he is prone to them.

I do have one question, why does cat pee come out clear then turn yellow??

BenMax

December 31st, 2008, 12:49 PM

Dollface - so the cat pee'd on you - why should that break a bond? It was an accident as we as humans make mistakes and know better while making them. This should absolutely not hinder your relationship with the cat. I can remember my child as a baby vomiting on me and I continued to love her....nothing unusual.

Your cat is ageing so accidents may occur. If you are concerned about the color then maybe a vet visit may be in order if it is not within the norm.

Looking back did you ever make a mistake with your cat and were you granted forgiveness by him?

sugarcatmom

December 31st, 2008, 12:56 PM

I did some reading and read that cats pee when they get scared, so I must've scared him somehow, I guess.

Could be, could also be that he really had to go and when you interrupted him, then picked him up, he was unable to hold it any longer.

I can't seem to get over the fact that he peed on me, its like the bond is broken for good. He does try to come near me but I don't want him to pee on me ever again.

Gosh, I hope you never have kids then, cause the squeem factor goes way up. Try to be a little sympathetic to poor Forest and the fact that you played a role in this incident. I'm sure he didn't mean for this to happen.

He is going to the litter fine, so no signs of UTI there, although he is prone to them.

What does he eat? A cat that's prone to urinary tract issues should be eating only wet food.

I do have one question, why does cat pee come out clear then turn yellow??

It shouldn't be coming out clear. When was the last time Forest had a urinalysis and senior blood panel?

ancientgirl

December 31st, 2008, 01:35 PM

Ditto on what BM and SCM said, cut him some slack. He's a 14 year old can, if he was a person he'd be well into senior citizenhood and you did interrupt him when he tried to use the litter. He likely wanted some privacy and got spooked when you came in.

You should also have him checked to make sure he doesn't have a UTI. His peeing on you might be a sign he's ill and not able hold his pee.

Don't be angry at him. I really doubt he did this on purpose.

BenMax

December 31st, 2008, 02:02 PM

Don't be angry at him. I really doubt he did this on purpose.

Absolutely good point AncientGirl. Animals do not have the capacity of being vindictive..... that is a human traite. This was absolutely 100% an accident and nothing evil or mean happened here. Love your cat up and get over the accident...there will be a day where you wished he pee'd on you - you would have one more chance to tell him how much you love him!

dollface

December 31st, 2008, 02:17 PM

What does he eat? A cat that's prone to urinary tract issues should be eating only wet food. We feed Iams Indoor Cat and Hairball Control.

you did interrupt him when he tried to use the litter. He likely wanted some privacy and got spooked when you came in. I did not say that, I said I followed him into the kitchen, and he was not heading to the litter box.

thanks for making me realize it was a mistake and I will forget about it :)

It shouldn't be coming out clear. When was the last time Forest had a urinalysis and senior blood panel? I just read that clear urine is ok. He had a urinalysis done a few months ago, around summer time. Senior blood panel, i'm not sure.

I also think he has a upper respiratory infection cuz he snores when he sleeps and has been sneezing a lot but my bf doesnt want to take him to the vet...he thinks its nothing...

sugarcatmom

December 31st, 2008, 04:17 PM

We feed Iams Indoor Cat and Hairball Control. :yuck:

I strongly suggest a diet change in that case. Iams is a horrible food, and I'm going to assume it's kibble and not canned that he's eating, which makes it exponentially worse. I guarantee that by changing Forest over to a quality wet food, he will not suffer through anymore UTIs and his overall health will improve. Some good brands to look for are Wellness, Innova Evo, Nature's Variety, By Nature, Merrick, etc. Please read this link for more info on why cats should not be eating kibble: http://www.catinfo.org/

I did not say that, I said I followed him into the kitchen, and he was not heading to the litter box.

Sorry, I misunderstood the situation. I would keep a close eye on his litter box use then. How many times a day does he go pee?

I just read that clear urine is ok.

It most certainly isn't. Where did you read that? Cat urine, especially from a cat on dry food, should be quite concentrated, and therefore quite yellow. If it's not, there are a few medical conditions (such as kidney disease, diabetes, hyperthyroid) that could be the causing this. Are you saying that Forest had clear urine?

Love4himies

December 31st, 2008, 08:43 PM

I agree with sugarcatmom, the kitty should be on a canned quality diet and I would definitly think about another blood panel, the colour of the urine doesn't seem right for a cat on kibble. Secondly, the "accident" is just not normal either.

BenMax and ancientgirl are right, pets don't have the capacity to seek revenge so this was just an "accident".

Tundra_Queen

December 31st, 2008, 11:06 PM

He could of really had a full bladder and you picking him up put extra pressure on his bladder and viola he couldn't hold it.

Debbie

EdwinBird

January 1st, 2009, 11:22 AM

About two weeks ago, on our morning walk, Rio saw a nice little twig that he thought ought to be his. I got a call on my phone and seeing as I had just woken up I wasn't able to answer the phone and walk at the same time so I stopped right next to the twig. Up Rio's leg went and a moment later I let out a "Ahh!" when I realized he was peeing all over my leg. Sometimes accidents happen, and the fact that your boyfriend's cat is older...

Well, I don't really know anything about cats but it's good you realize this isn't any reason to have the bond between you two broken.

But I recommend listening to these people's suggestions, particularly about food. When I changed from Science Diet over to actual quality kibble I noticed almost immediate improvements in Rio (less shedding and his coat looks and feels more healthy, for example). I bet you and your boyfriend would notice improvements in the older cat as well!

dollface

January 1st, 2009, 03:13 PM

http://www.pets.ca/forum/images/smilies/yuck.gif

I strongly suggest a diet change in that case. Iams is a horrible food, and I'm going to assume it's kibble and not canned that he's eating, which makes it exponentially worse. I guarantee that by changing Forest over to a quality wet food, he will not suffer through anymore UTIs and his overall health will improve. Some good brands to look for are Wellness, Innova Evo, Nature's Variety, By Nature, Merrick, etc. Please read this link for more info on why cats should not be eating kibble: http://www.catinfo.org/

Why would our vet say Iams is a really good food to give then? When he had the UTI last year, they prescribed their dry food and it worked for him. He's had UTI twice in his 14 years. At the moment, we are feeding PC Finiky Cat Indoor and Hairball mixed together, dry. Store jacked the price of Iams. I think I will look into a wet food diet though. But how would I switch them over? Mix the wet with the dry gradually?

I would say they go to the bathroom maybe 4-5 times a day, I don't really know though, never counted.

Are you saying that Forest had clear urine?

When the pee initially came out it was like warm water flying, and then it hit the floor and I could only see the puddles of what looked like water. Then as I got the paper towels the puddles started to turn yellow...

He could of really had a full bladder and you picking him up put extra pressure on his bladder and viola he couldn't hold it

It had been a really long time since he had gone to the litter, before the incident he had been sleeping on my bed with Gizzy, then got up to venture into the bathroom and rest of the story is history.

Forest has apologized by sitting on my lap and keeping me warm :)

for treats, we also feed Whiskas and Greenies Dental Treats.

would these be good to feed? Seem to have good ratings...
http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3082004

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750262

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750261

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2750264

sugarcatmom

January 1st, 2009, 04:05 PM

Why would our vet say Iams is a really good food to give then?

Because most vets know diddly-squat about feline nutrition. They get minimal training in school, and what they do get is provided by the pet food companies themselves. Seriously, read the link I gave you, it should open your eyes about what is and isn't appropriate food for cats. There's also this link about the conflict of interest in vets recommending what to feed our pets: http://catnutrition.wordpress.com/2008/01/22/dry-food-and-vets/

Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they must eat meat. No need for any grains whatsoever. Yet this food is overwhelmingly heavy on the grains and useless plant material. Why? Because it's cheap, and pet food companies are more concerned about profit than keeping your cat healthy. Also the quality of the meat in Iams is poor. By-product meal is the dead, diseased, disabled castoffs not fit for human consumption.

The other big problem with this and ALL other dry food is that it doesn't contain enough moisture. Cats evolved in the desert, where nearly 100% of their water intake came from the prey they ate. Consequently, they have a very low thirst drive and are chronically dehydrated when fed only dry food. Doesn't matter if you see your cat drinking lots, it's not enough to make up for the lack of moisture in their food.

In contrast, here are the main ingredients in Wellness canned chicken:

I think I will look into a wet food diet though. But how would I switch them over? Mix the wet with the dry gradually?

In the www.catinfo.org link there's a good section on how to transition over to wet food.

I would say they go to the bathroom maybe 4-5 times a day, I don't really know though, never counted.

Might be a good idea to keep an eye on that. Normal amounts vary with each cat, but I would say that peeing 5 times a day on a dry food diet is excessive. My cat, eating only wet food, pees about 2 or 3 times a day, 4 if his blood sugar (he's diabetic) goes too high.

Gotta run, but I'll check out your food links later.

dollface

January 1st, 2009, 05:25 PM

thank you SCM! I think I will be going to trade up the dry with wet food tomorrow.

I do know some ingredients that aren't good for cats: corn, wheat, BHA/BHT and guar gum. So after checking the ingredients of the whiskas variety pack i saw BHA preservatives as ingredients so prolly not a good idea to feed that, right?

Should I go to Global Pet Foods or Petsmart/Pet Value for the best wet food I can get?

ancientgirl

January 1st, 2009, 05:32 PM

I don't know about up there, but here in Florida Petsmart doesn't sell any of the good quality foods like Wellness, Innova, Merrick etc...

Petco has just begun selling Wellness here, but right now I'm buying my gang Innova Evo and Merrick and they really love their food.

sugarcatmom

January 2nd, 2009, 03:22 PM

Should I go to Global Pet Foods or Petsmart/Pet Value for the best wet food I can get?

I think Global might be the best bet. I'm pretty sure they carry Wellness and some of the other quality brands. PetSmart carries By Nature Organics, which is a good grain-free one, except that it's very high in phosphorus and should be avoided in cats with compromised kidneys. Something else to stay away from generally (and especially in UTI-prone cats) is too much fish. I would only feed a fish-based food once or twice a week at most.

BenMax

January 2nd, 2009, 03:27 PM

I think Global might be the best bet. I'm pretty sure they carry Wellness and some of the other quality brands. PetSmart carries By Nature Organics, which is a good grain-free one, except that it's very high in phosphorus and should be avoided in cats with compromised kidneys. Something else to stay away from generally (and especially in UTI-prone cats) is too much fish. I would only feed a fish-based food once or twice a week at most.

Thanks sugarcatmom - I did not know about the fish. Always learning something here.:thumbs up

dollface

January 3rd, 2009, 01:57 AM

I have spent the last few hours compiling a list of foods and their ingredients. I have found 2 out of the list that are completely grain and preservative free and have no guar gum. So they are looking pretty good, Nature's Variety and Merrick. I can't remember where I read that guar gum is bad for cats, but I think it is a by-product of some sort.

Here is the list, hope I did a good job in researching! What do you think? :cat:

I also noticed that Global Pet Foods sells already prepared raw diets, would those be better to feed? Are they more expensive?

Tundra_Queen

January 3rd, 2009, 04:29 AM

Hi
When I was looking into changing my cat's food I was going to try Merrick, but it is 100% meat, so that isn't good to feed all the time as it has no added stuff like taurine, that cats need. I use the Wellness canned because it is 95% meat, but also has the other necessary vitamins etc.

Debbie :)

ancientgirl

January 3rd, 2009, 08:06 AM

Tundra Queen, which Merrick are you feeding? I've been buying my gang the Turducken and the Cowboy cookout and those have Taurine in them.

Love4himies

January 3rd, 2009, 08:41 AM

thank you SCM! I think I will be going to trade up the dry with wet food tomorrow.

I do know some ingredients that aren't good for cats: corn, wheat, BHA/BHT and guar gum. So after checking the ingredients of the whiskas variety pack i saw BHA preservatives as ingredients so prolly not a good idea to feed that, right?

Should I go to Global Pet Foods or Petsmart/Pet Value for the best wet food I can get?

I purchase all my food from Global, I find they have a better selection of high quality cat food. I believe franchise owners can order just about any food, unlike Pet Value I think have to order what head office approves. Here are my favourites:

Nature's Variety, Instinct: (my favourite as it doesn't have potato filler in it)

Hi
When I was looking into changing my cat's food I was going to try Merrick, but it is 100% meat, so that isn't good to feed all the time as it has no added stuff like taurine, that cats need. I use the Wellness canned because it is 95% meat, but also has the other necessary vitamins etc.

Debbie :)

Are you talking about the new Wellness Core Canned. Wellness is claiming that it is 95% meat and has 20% more meat than than their other Wellness brands. I was very surprised when I read this as I thought their canned Wellness was higher in protien.

http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/cat_wellness_can_core_chicken.html

sugarcatmom

January 3rd, 2009, 11:39 AM

Hi
When I was looking into changing my cat's food I was going to try Merrick, but it is 100% meat, so that isn't good to feed all the time as it has no added stuff like taurine, that cats need.

I think you're talking about the Merrick BG (Before Grain (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/bg_canned_cat_food_32.php)) canned food with the white label. That one is indeed intended for supplemental feeding only, but the rest of their line with the colourful labels (http://www.merrickpetcare.com/store/canned_cat_food.php) (such as the Cowboy Cookout that ancientgirl mentioned) is complete and balanced.

I use the Wellness canned because it is 95% meat, but also has the other necessary vitamins etc.

Just want to make sure you aren't referring to the 95% meat varieties aimed at dogs, such as this: http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog_wellness_can_95chicken.html These are NOT complete, for dogs or cats, and should also only be fed intermittently.

sugarcatmom

January 3rd, 2009, 11:58 AM

I have spent the last few hours compiling a list of foods and their ingredients.

Love it!!

I have found 2 out of the list that are completely grain and preservative free and have no guar gum. So they are looking pretty good, Nature's Variety and Merrick. I can't remember where I read that guar gum is bad for cats, but I think it is a by-product of some sort.

Guar gum is basically a refined powder that comes from ground up guar beans. It's used as a thickener and stabilizer in many foods, such as ice cream, baked goods, sauces, etc. Personally, I'm not concerned about the small amount that's used in pet foods.

I also noticed that Global Pet Foods sells already prepared raw diets, would those be better to feed? Are they more expensive?

They can be more expensive, although cats often need to eat less of them because they get more out of the raw diets. Just like with other commercial pet foods, not all of them are created equal and it's still important to read the ingredients. Some have way to much vegetable matter. A decent one that's widely available is the Nature's Variety Raw Medallions.

Some cats, not ever having had fresh meat before, are very suspicious of it. If you are interested in trying raw, you might want to start with a few small pieces of plain chicken and see how that goes. It can be a slow process, but it's soooo worth it, even if it's not for every meal. I feed my guy raw in the evenings and on weekends, on weekday mornings he gets canned.

dollface

January 3rd, 2009, 12:43 PM

Some cats, not ever having had fresh meat before, are very suspicious of it. If you are interested in trying raw, you might want to start with a few small pieces of plain chicken and see how that goes. It can be a slow process, but it's soooo worth it, even if it's not for every meal. I feed my guy raw in the evenings and on weekends, on weekday mornings he gets canned. I have actually fed my cats some pieces of cooked chicken or turkey and they gobble it up, is that what you mean?

I think when we move by summer (hopefully) and I have more counter space I will look into a raw diet.

So my choices are the Merrick colourful labels, Wellness, Innova Evo, and Nature's Variety Instinct! And to only feed fish based once or twice a week.

Thanks for the advice, off to GPF soon :)

sugarcatmom

January 3rd, 2009, 12:50 PM

I have actually fed my cats some pieces of cooked chicken or turkey and they gobble it up, is that what you mean?

Fantastic! That's definitely a good start. You could offer some uncooked pieces and see if they go for it, or else just gradually cook it less and less. There are cases where even cats that do like the occasional raw morsel won't go for a complete meal of it because it also has ground bones and organs and maybe some other ingredients that they aren't used to. But even this can be overcome with patience.

Have fun shopping!

dollface

January 3rd, 2009, 05:43 PM

went to GPF today and we picked up all flavours of the Merrick line, got 2 stainless steel bowls and a can cover lol

at 6pm I gave them each a quarter of a can, so half a can left, and they ate maybe half of what i gave them. Should I leave the kibble down for snacking until completely switched over?

sugarcatmom

January 3rd, 2009, 07:46 PM

at 6pm I gave them each a quarter of a can, so half a can left, and they ate maybe half of what i gave them. Should I leave the kibble down for snacking until completely switched over?

I just leave canned food down for snacking. My cat never eats his entire portion in one sitting, he comes back to it several times over a few hours. It's perfectly fine to leave it out. What you could do is slowly leave less and less kibble out and more canned, if you don't feel comfortable pulling the dry completely.

dollface

January 3rd, 2009, 11:20 PM

thanks SCM i will try that! :)

on a side note, I think I am going to have a meltdown. How do you get someone to read about new information that could help their cat but they don't want to read about it b/c they are simply not interested in reading period?!

My bf seems to think that Forest is "just fine" on dry food, while I am willing to switch and pay for the food if it means he will live to 20 years instead of just 15 or 16 years. Gizzy is my first pet and I intend to do everything that is best for him so he CAN live a long healthy happy life. But I just cannot seem to get through to someone who doesn't care about his own cat, but wants to get a husky in the near future! GRRR!

sugarcatmom

January 4th, 2009, 12:43 PM

My bf seems to think that Forest is "just fine" on dry food,

Ah yes, I have friends and family with the same attitude, even though they know first hand what I've gone through with my cats as a result of dry food. Very frustrating. There is a big difference between surviving and thriving. You'll find many testimonials on this site from people who have switched their cats to wet food and noticed softer, shinier coats, less shedding, less poop, more energy, etc.

Of course there are the stories of those whose cats lived into their 20s even though they ate nothing but grocery store kibble, just like there are people that manage to live long lives despite being heavy smokers and/or drinkers (like George Burns). Then there are the stories (like mine) of cats dying at 11 yrs old from IBD, or getting diabetes at 9, or having their penis removed because of a blocked urinary tract.....

My cats were also "just fine" on dry food. Until they weren't.

But I just cannot seem to get through to someone who doesn't care about his own cat, but wants to get a husky in the near future! GRRR!

Oy. Well thank you for taking Forest under your wing. Hopefully your boyfriend will see Forest thriving on a better diet and become a convert that way.

dollface

January 4th, 2009, 01:42 PM

I sure hope so SCM, thank you for guiding me in the right direction :thumbs up

Now my current problem will be trying to get Forest to eat the wet food, he sure does not like change. Gizzy seems to be taking to it well, but he is only a year and a half.

Today I have added some kibble to the wet food to see if he will eat it, I hope it helps.

ancientgirl

January 4th, 2009, 01:44 PM

When I was switching mine to canned, I started off with half canned and half kibble. I did that for about a week, and then just gradually reduced the amount of kibble. It didn't take long to get them off of kibble. :D

sugarcatmom

January 4th, 2009, 02:46 PM

Today I have added some kibble to the wet food to see if he will eat it, I hope it helps.

What I had to do with my kibble-addict was pulverize the dry into a powder and dust the top of his wet food with it. Often took several re-dustings to get him to eat all the canned I put out. Pet food companies play dirty by putting flavour enhancers inside and coating the outside of the kibble in order to attract cats to something they wouldn't normally eat, so it can be tough to overcome that. Other ways to make canned more appealing are to sprinkle powdered freeze-dried meat treats like Halo Liv-a-Littles (http://shop.halopets.com/Natural-Treats) or Real Food Toppers (http://www.realfoodtoppers.com/shopping/index.php?view=category&path=15) on it. Parmesan cheese also works for some cats, or stinky tuna or sardine juice. Bonito flakes (like Kitty Kaviar (http://www.thecatconnection.com/page/TCC/PROD/KITTYKAVIAR_1oz)) are another enticer. Take your time, it's not a race. I think it was several months before I had my dude fully converted.

Love4himies

January 4th, 2009, 02:56 PM

I had to do the same as Sugarcatmom, I then sprinkled some pulverized Real Food Toppers (salmon as Puddles was a fish addict as well as kibble). However, as long as Puddles smelled her old food, even though it was hidden away, I still had problems converting her to Wellness. After I threw out her old kibble, she was more willing to eat her new canned.

dollface

January 6th, 2009, 03:05 PM

can i buy any of these Halo Liv-a-Littles, Real Food Toppers or Kitty Kaviar anywhere locally?

I think I will try crushing the dry food to sprinkle on top of the wet, or some parmesan cheese first before I try anything else.

I first fed the Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, each got a quarter can and ate most of it but then never ate it again :( do they think its only good to eat as a treat once and never eat it again? I have a feeling i'm gonna be in stress mode until they are finally converted...

ancientgirl

January 6th, 2009, 03:24 PM

I first fed the Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, each got a quarter can and ate most of it but then never ate it again :( do they think its only good to eat as a treat once and never eat it again? I have a feeling i'm gonna be in stress mode until they are finally converted...

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. Mine were going nuts over the Turducken and the Cowboy Cookout, but after they had it a couple of times they are now they're turning their noses up to it too.:shrug:

Love4himies

January 6th, 2009, 06:21 PM

can i buy any of these Halo Liv-a-Littles, Real Food Toppers or Kitty Kaviar anywhere locally?

I think I will try crushing the dry food to sprinkle on top of the wet, or some parmesan cheese first before I try anything else.

I first fed the Merrick's Cowboy Cookout, each got a quarter can and ate most of it but then never ate it again :( do they think its only good to eat as a treat once and never eat it again? I have a feeling i'm gonna be in stress mode until they are finally converted...

Have you tried Global?

Love4himies

January 6th, 2009, 06:23 PM

The only food I could get Puddles to stick with is Wellness (grain free). She tried the Turkdunken or what ever it was called ate one can and wouldn't touch it again. I was thinking it made her feel bad after she ate it the first time :shrug: The other food she will eat is Instinct, canned of course.

dollface

January 7th, 2009, 11:05 PM

Starting up again, now that I am home, I started off with Merrick's New England Boil. Gizzy has eaten 3 dishes, one at 4:15pm and 2 between 9 and 10:30pm.

Before testing a new can, I sprinkled parmesan cheese on some treats, Gizzy seemed to like that, but Forest just smelled it. Tried some Soy sauce, Gizzy loved it and Forest seemed to, but only ate 2 out of the 3 treats.

So it seems Gizzy will eat the New England Boil with Soy Sauce (only a drop was used). Better than nothing! He sniffed the kibble, but never ate any/ Can I celebrate a tiny bit now? :angel:

Forest, on the other hand, refused as usual. I tried wiping some food on his nose, he kept licking it off but wouldn't eat any off the plate.

This process would be really easy if I had the help of my bf but I don't think he wants to help. :sad: If worse comes to worst, we may have to feed in separate rooms at different times, just so I can make sure Gizzy doesn't eat the kibble.

Maybe in time, my bf will see that its ridiculous to feed 2 different types and the extra expense will make him see that it really will be better for him if he sees the expected results in Gizzy?

I think tomorrow I will try to store the kibble in a container so they can't smell it and try this method:

Once your cat is on a schedule meal-feeding instead of free-feeding, try feeding a meal of canned food only. If he will not eat it - and the very stubborn ones won't - try not to get frustrated - and do NOT put down dry food. Try some of the other tips listed below. If he still will not eat the canned food, let him get a bit hungrier. Offer the canned again in a couple of hours. Try a different brand/flavor or a different 'trick'. Once it has been ~18 hours since he has eaten anything, give him just a small amount (1/4 of a cup - or less if it is EVO) of his dry food.

or should I only try this when Gizzy is fully converted so as not to get too ahead of myself?

Love4himies

January 8th, 2009, 07:54 AM

I do find the hungrier the cat, the more willing they are to try different food. I remember with Puddles after many, many frustrating tears, I had to eliminate her old kibble from the house completely. They have pretty good sniffers. ;).
I did have to sprinkle the freeze dried salmon on top to entice her to eat Wellness.

You are right, it is much easier to feed the same food to both kitties.

Good luck and don't give up (it took me almost three months to get Puddles on a quality canned which was totally worth it)

dollface

January 8th, 2009, 10:45 AM

I do find the hungrier the cat, the more willing they are to try different food. I remember with Puddles after many, many frustrating tears, I had to eliminate her old kibble from the house completely. They have pretty good sniffers. ;).
I did have to sprinkle the freeze dried salmon on top to entice her to eat Wellness.

You are right, it is much easier to feed the same food to both kitties.

Good luck and don't give up (it took me almost three months to get Puddles on a quality canned which was totally worth it) if everyone was on board in the house i would totally get rid of it, or just put it in the garage if i had one or the basement, but we live in a condo apartment and there isnt much room. We have 2 bathrooms tho, one that is shared by the water heater in a closet, could they smell it if i put it in there?

Love4himies

January 8th, 2009, 11:34 AM

if everyone was on board in the house i would totally get rid of it, or just put it in the garage if i had one or the basement, but we live in a condo apartment and there isnt much room. We have 2 bathrooms tho, one that is shared by the water heater in a closet, could they smell it if i put it in there?

If you put it in a sealed plastic container they may not depending on how good their sense of smell is. It is just Forest you are having the problems transitioning right?

What is his absolutely most favourite treat? If you can put a bit on top of the canned food you want him to eat and feed him when he is very hungry that may do the trick. Gradually decrease the amount of "treat" over a slow period of time. To get my Jasper on raw, I had to put a tiny amount on his treat and hand feed him each treat. I gradually increased the amount of raw on the treat, then got to the point I sprinkled some treats on top of his raw and now I can't have any meat, frozen or thawed, on the counter without him driving us crazy meowing for it. :yell: :laughing:

dollface

January 8th, 2009, 12:13 PM

yes just Forest as it seems that Gizzy is taking well to it. I feed Whiskas Temptations Creamy Dairy and Greenies Dental Beef treats at the moment (altho I should prolly feed a different treat since these are just as bad as kibble). I have tried putting treats in the canned food for him but he didnt budge, but that was at the time the kibble was still smellable.

I can't have any meat, frozen or thawed, on the counter without him driving us crazy meowing for it. cant wait to look forward to that! http://www.pets.ca/forum/images/smilies/laughing.gif

Love4himies

January 8th, 2009, 12:27 PM

yes just Forest as it seems that Gizzy is taking well to it. I feed Whiskas Temptations Creamy Dairy and Greenies Dental Beef treats at the moment (altho I should prolly feed a different treat since these are just as bad as kibble). I have tried putting treats in the canned food for him but he didnt budge, but that was at the time the kibble was still smellable.

I didn't mix the treats in the food at first, just set them on top. Sounds like Forest has a super sensitive sniffer :laughing: Frustrating isn't it.

dollface

January 8th, 2009, 03:05 PM

Sounds like Forest has a super sensitive sniffer :laughing: Frustrating isn't it. he is very frustrating, right now i'm trying to get him to stop running away from me, and hiding but its not really working :sad:

I think he knows that my bf and I are split on the subject so he will prolly go to my bf for the food he's not supposed to eat.

But I just fed Gizzy and he licked it clean again. Forest hasnt started whining yet for food, and the kibble is hidden away. So we will see what happens later.

On a side note, he usually eats too fast when its been a long time since his last meal, like we forgot only its him who doesnt want to eat on time and we take the food away. If he doesn't try the canned, and I give him a 1/4 cup of the kibble, how do I make sure he doesn't eat so fast that he throws it back up?

edit: he just started whining, was walking around, saw me and ran under the table again... its one thing to be rejected by a human, but my own cat makes me feel horrible :sad: should i block access to the table?

sugarcatmom

January 8th, 2009, 05:19 PM

I think he knows that my bf and I are split on the subject so he will prolly go to my bf for the food he's not supposed to eat.

Cats are master manipulators, that's for sure.

But I just fed Gizzy and he licked it clean again. Forest hasnt started whining yet for food, and the kibble is hidden away. So we will see what happens later.

What a good Gizzy! Hopefully he'll rub off on Forest. Cats often learn new behaviours from each other by observation, so you never know.

If he doesn't try the canned, and I give him a 1/4 cup of the kibble, how do I make sure he doesn't eat so fast that he throws it back up?

Can you spread the kibble out on a large plate so he can't hoover it in all at once? Either that or give him a couple tsps at a time, with breaks in between.

When I was switching Aztec over, I would give him a tablespoon of dry at meal times, right next to some fresh canned. He would of course finish the dry first, but since it wasn't enough to satiate him, he'd eat a bit of the canned afterwards as well. I slowly gave him less and less dry until it was only 3 or 4 peices, but it was still enough to get him excited about eating. I did that for probably a couple months because whenever I offered only the canned first, he would walk away in a huff. He seemed to need a kibble appetizer to jumpstart his eating.

should i block access to the table?

Nah, let him have his escape route. He's probably feeling as stressed as you are and this is one way he's dealing with it. In fact, he could be picking up on your stress and reacting to it. You might want to think only calm happy thoughts around meal-times, if possible. It's amazing how perceptive cats are to our emotions and it really can affect them. I actually came to tears a few times while trying to get Aztec to eat because being diabetic, he HAD to eat, and he was soooooo picky. Major frustration. That only made him more uneasy around mealtimes because there was such a sense of foreboding about the whole process. We had a big feedback loop of stress going on. Once I was able to relax, he did the same.

dollface

January 8th, 2009, 08:35 PM

What a good Gizzy! Hopefully he'll rub off on Forest. Cats often learn new behaviours from each other by observation, so you never know. I sure hope so! Gizzy also had a tsp of Turducken and licked it clean again :goodvibes:

Can you spread the kibble out on a large plate so he can't hoover it in all at once? Either that or give him a couple tsps at a time, with breaks in between. I will try that tonight and see how it goes, altho he is now mad at both of us for trying to make him eat something he doesnt want. I don't think he will want to be near any of us while he eats :sad:

Nah, let him have his escape route. He's probably feeling as stressed as you are and this is one way he's dealing with it. In fact, he could be picking up on your stress and reacting to it. You might want to think only calm happy thoughts around meal-times, if possible. It's amazing how perceptive cats are to our emotions and it really can affect them. I actually came to tears a few times while trying to get Aztec to eat because being diabetic, he HAD to eat, and he was soooooo picky. Major frustration. That only made him more uneasy around mealtimes because there was such a sense of foreboding about the whole process. We had a big feedback loop of stress going on. Once I was able to relax, he did the same. I can only imagine your frustration :sad: but I'm glad you prevailed, this will be my motivation.

And me and my bf just had a talk and he has agreed to help me on this. Before we had the talk, he was ready to ship Forest off to his parent's house, b/c at the first sign of work he wanted to bail on his pet. Like who does that?? Ever since we got Gizzy, we've had trouble with his behaviour issues, but we worked through them with flower essences and he is soo normal now I can hardly remember what he used to be like. But I finally got through to him so thinking happy calm thoughts at meal time will be the start of a new beginning. Wish me luck! and thanks for all the help so far! :goodvibes: I will keep you posted!

dollface

January 9th, 2009, 01:26 AM

Gizzy ate some more New England Boil, but tried to sneak some dry in cuz bf plopped down a whole bowl full of kibble when he "forgot" i had told him the 1/4 cup rule.

Forest had not eaten since 5am (thursday) and did not eat any wet in between. He got some kibble at 10pm but he didnt get the whole 1/4 cup, he prolly ate about 2 tsps...not sure if thats improvement. He is basically soo stressed/scared (bf kinda shoved wet up his nose...) that it almost doesnt seem worth it or maybe i'm doing something wrong (i know its only been a couple days and Gizzy is a fast learner) I wonder if a cat boarder/foster could handle the transition from dry to wet? Is that bad? I don't want to give up on him, but our bond is breaking :sad:

sugarcatmom

January 9th, 2009, 06:46 AM

He is basically soo stressed/scared (bf kinda shoved wet up his nose...) that it almost doesnt seem worth it or maybe i'm doing something wrong

Aww, poor Forest. Tell you what, you might need to back up a few steps. Forest has to eat or he could get sick, so definitely offer him some dry periodically throughout the day (just don't leave it out). Also, instead of the Merrick, go to the grocery store and pick up some cans of Fancy Feast. It's a bit junkier (contains by-products), but there are a few flavours that don't contain grains and most cats really like them. It can be great as a transition food to get cats used to the whole "wet" thing, and then after a while a better quality food can be mixed in. The best flavours are Tender Liver & Chicken Feast, Beef & Liver Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Don't get anything that says "grilled" or "sliced" or "marinated" or whatever, just "feast". They are a pate style and I wonder if maybe Forest is having an issue with the texture of the Merrick. I know Aztec doesn't like Merrick for that reason.

My other suggestion is to leave some canned down all the time (if Gizzy doesn't eat it all). Forest might be more willing to try it on his own terms, when nobody is around. Aztec will often pretend he's starving to death, even while food sits in his dish, but as soon as I leave the house he goes and eats it. It's that master manipulator thing coming through again. Plus you have to remember that Forest has been eating kibble probably his entire life. It's going to take some time and patience to change his mindset.

Love4himies

January 9th, 2009, 07:02 AM

I don't have any more suggestions than what Sugarcatmom has offered.

Good Grizzly for eating his canned :lovestruck:.

My cats won't eat anything but pate style of food, the two pate styles of Fancy Feast are salmon (in an orange can) and tuna and whitefish (in a blue can, read carefully because I think there are two blue cans). I know both fish, not the best for kitties, but may help get him to eat some canned :pray:.

Another food that my cats just love is Wellness Core, canned of course (and I have a super picky eater like Forest). They actually like it better than regular Wellness and it has a higher protein content.

sugarcatmom

January 9th, 2009, 11:28 AM

, the two pate styles of Fancy Feast are salmon (in an orange can) and tuna and whitefish (in a blue can, read carefully because I think there are two blue cans).

Just so there's no confusion, the flavours I mentioned above (Tender Liver & Chicken Feast, Beef & Liver Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast) are also pate texture. Tender Beef Feast is as well, although I tend not to feed it because it contains unspecified fish. But ya, if one has to resort to fish flavours to get a cat to eat, I have no problem with that.

dollface

January 9th, 2009, 12:16 PM

Aww, poor Forest. Tell you what, you might need to back up a few steps. Forest has to eat or he could get sick, so definitely offer him some dry periodically throughout the day (just don't leave it out). Also, instead of the Merrick, go to the grocery store and pick up some cans of Fancy Feast. It's a bit junkier (contains by-products), but there are a few flavours that don't contain grains and most cats really like them. It can be great as a transition food to get cats used to the whole "wet" thing, and then after a while a better quality food can be mixed in. The best flavours are Tender Liver & Chicken Feast, Beef & Liver Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast. Don't get anything that says "grilled" or "sliced" or "marinated" or whatever, just "feast". They are a pate style and I wonder if maybe Forest is having an issue with the texture of the Merrick. I know Aztec doesn't like Merrick for that reason.

My other suggestion is to leave some canned down all the time (if Gizzy doesn't eat it all). Forest might be more willing to try it on his own terms, when nobody is around. Aztec will often pretend he's starving to death, even while food sits in his dish, but as soon as I leave the house he goes and eats it. It's that master manipulator thing coming through again. Plus you have to remember that Forest has been eating kibble probably his entire life. It's going to take some time and patience to change his mindset.

I've actually fed some Fancy Feast cans before and they both ate it. Although Forest kinda threw it up after a few mins, I'm thinking he ate the new "treat" too fast and thats why he threw up. But I have one can left, Turkey Feast Sliced, boo lol. That's ok I will just go to the store and pick some new ones up.

On an update side, bf tried to feed both this morning, but I don't think he is getting the concept as well as I understand it. Long story short, he left with Forest hiding from him :sad:. Gizzy wouldn't eat either. This was at 5 am, I couldn't sleep so I went and tried to feed some to Gizzy. Wouldn't eat it, so I tried Surf & Turf, he ate about half, I went back to bed and when I came out at 12pm the plate was clean! Is it safe to say that Gizzy is converted? :crazy: :laughing:

At 12pm still, Forest was walking around as if he was lost, I gave him some Surf & Turf with Soy Sauce and he actually ate some! About 3/4 of a tsp! Then he had some he wanted to play hide and seek. I left him alone for a bit, then came out and he started head butting me and promptly rolled over for a belly rub, he is now on the bed with me sleeping :goodvibes: Hopefully this is a sign :pray:

Can you return canned food if unopened? Prolly not, eh? I think Gizzy likes it but I have to switch up the flavors more often. And I'd like them both to like the same brand, if that's not too much to ask :laughing:

Another food that my cats just love is Wellness Core, canned of course (and I have a super picky eater like Forest). They actually like it better than regular Wellness and it has a higher protein content.

Thanks! I will look for the Wellness Core :fingerscr

On a side note, I still haven't been able to try sprinkling kibble on top of the wet for Forest, because a) I don't have a food processor/blender or b) I don't have a Mortar & Pestle set. Should I get one?

ancientgirl

January 9th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Can you return canned food if unopened? Prolly not, eh? I think Gizzy likes it but I have to switch up the flavors more often. And I'd like them both to like the same brand, if that's not too much to ask :laughing:

I've been able to return unopened food before. Do you have a receipt? Some places will let you just return it if they know you buy there often.

On a side note, I still haven't been able to try sprinkling kibble on top of the wet for Forest, because a) I don't have a food processor/blender or b) I don't have a Mortar & Pestle set. Should I get one?

If you have a ziplock or any plastic type bag, you can just put some in there and beat it down with a hammer or something.

myboydallas

January 9th, 2009, 12:28 PM

Have the cat checked for Diabetes......I had this happen with one of my older cats.....once checked she was diagnosed with Diabetes and put on Insulin.

Love4himies

January 9th, 2009, 12:38 PM

Just so there's no confusion, the flavours I mentioned above (Tender Liver & Chicken Feast, Beef & Liver Feast, and Turkey & Giblets Feast) are also pate texture. Tender Beef Feast is as well, although I tend not to feed it because it contains unspecified fish. But ya, if one has to resort to fish flavours to get a cat to eat, I have no problem with that.

I didn't know that SCM, I thought they were flaked. I think some issues with cats is the different texture of food :shrug:.

Love4himies

January 9th, 2009, 12:44 PM

I've actually fed some Fancy Feast cans before and they both ate it. Although Forest kinda threw it up after a few mins, I'm thinking he ate the new "treat" too fast and thats why he threw up. But I have one can left, Turkey Feast Sliced, boo lol. That's ok I will just go to the store and pick some new ones up.

Puddles too vomited a lot on Fancy Feast. I tried giving it to her for a treat after she was on Wellness full time and she threw it up. I think she eats it too fast and too much for her tiny tummy

On an update side, bf tried to feed both this morning, but I don't think he is getting the concept as well as I understand it. Long story short, he left with Forest hiding from him :sad:. Gizzy wouldn't eat either. This was at 5 am, I couldn't sleep so I went and tried to feed some to Gizzy. Wouldn't eat it, so I tried Surf & Turf, he ate about half, I went back to bed and when I came out at 12pm the plate was clean! Is it safe to say that Gizzy is converted? :crazy: :laughing:

At 12pm still, Forest was walking around as if he was lost, I gave him some Surf & Turf with Soy Sauce and he actually ate some! About 3/4 of a tsp! Then he had some he wanted to play hide and seek. I left him alone for a bit, then came out and he started head butting me and promptly rolled over for a belly rub, he is now on the bed with me sleeping :goodvibes: Hopefully this is a sign :pray:

Can you return canned food if unopened? Prolly not, eh? I think Gizzy likes it but I have to switch up the flavors more often. And I'd like them both to like the same brand, if that's not too much to ask :laughing:

I would think it depends on the store.

Thanks! I will look for the Wellness Core :fingerscr

On a side note, I still haven't been able to try sprinkling kibble on top of the wet for Forest, because a) I don't have a food processor/blender or b) I don't have a Mortar & Pestle set. Should I get one?

I didn't cut up the kibble, just spinkled whole on top of the mound of canned. Just enought that the canned was covered. It gets the cat used to the smell of canned while they are eating kibble (similar to sugarcatsmom idea of putting canned beside the kibble). They also may eat some canned accidentally while they are eating kibble. Then they realize canned food is good too.

ancientgirl

January 9th, 2009, 12:44 PM

I didn't know that SCM, I thought they were flaked. I think some issues with cats is the different texture of food :shrug:.

L4H, I think as long as they don't say "grilled" or "flaked" or are any of those souffle type ones, it's pate consistency. And I've noticed that most of the pate ones are the ones with no wheat gluten, the others have it.

sugarcatmom

January 9th, 2009, 01:15 PM

On a side note, I still haven't been able to try sprinkling kibble on top of the wet for Forest, because a) I don't have a food processor/blender or b) I don't have a Mortar & Pestle set. Should I get one?

Expanding on ancientgirl's suggestion, you could also put some kibble between a couple sheets of wax paper (or in a ziplock) and either roll over it with a rolling pin, or crush it with the back of a spoon. I did find, in Aztec's case, that just placing whole pieces of kibble on top of canned didn't fly with him. It had to be powderized so he could lick it. But he's weird.

dollface

January 9th, 2009, 10:06 PM

Have the cat checked for Diabetes......I had this happen with one of my older cats.....once checked she was diagnosed with Diabetes and put on Insulin. Just out of curiosity, have I mentioned anything that may have cause for concern for Diabetes? Or is it more for safe than sorry?

sugarcatmom

January 10th, 2009, 10:36 AM

Just out of curiosity, have I mentioned anything that may have cause for concern for Diabetes? Or is it more for safe than sorry?

Myboydallas is probably referring to the fact that Forest peed on you. Cats with diabetes urinate more and sometimes pee outside the litter box because they either can't hold it, or they get a urinary tract infection which causes them to associate the litter box with pain. Their urine is also more dilute, making it look "clear". Other symptoms would be drinking more than usual, eating lots but losing weight, increased shedding with a dandruffy coat, etc. These are also signs of other illnesses common in older cats, like hyperthyroid or kidney disease. So if Forest does have any of them beyond just that one incident of peeing on you, it would for sure be a good idea to take him for a check-up.

dollface

January 10th, 2009, 11:42 AM

Myboydallas is probably referring to the fact that Forest peed on you. Cats with diabetes urinate more and sometimes pee outside the litter box because they either can't hold it, or they get a urinary tract infection which causes them to associate the litter box with pain. Their urine is also more dilute, making it look "clear". Other symptoms would be drinking more than usual, eating lots but losing weight, increased shedding with a dandruffy coat, etc. These are also signs of other illnesses common in older cats, like hyperthyroid or kidney disease. So if Forest does have any of them beyond just that one incident of peeing on you, it would for sure be a good idea to take him for a check-up. i think i will take him to the vet then, due to the bolded part above, I just thought it was the dry food making it dirty, which it probably is and then some. They would take a blood test for these right?

sugarcatmom

January 10th, 2009, 12:31 PM

They would take a blood test for these right?

Yup, just ask for a senior blood panel as well as a urinalysis. This will include a blood glucose test (for diabetes), T4 (for thyroid), BUN, creatinine, phosphorus, calcium, potassium, etc. (which are all related to kidney health), and a urine specific gravity, which will tell you how concentrated his urine is (another important diagnostic for kidney disease). Ask for a copy of the results when you get them.

Sometimes a scruffy coat is one of the first symptoms when a cat has an illness brewing, so I think it would be a great idea to take Forest for a check-up. How is he eating today?

dollface

January 10th, 2009, 02:42 PM

Yup, just ask for a senior blood panel as well as a urinalysis. This will include a blood glucose test (for diabetes), T4 (for thyroid), BUN, creatinine, phosphorus, calcium, potassium, etc. (which are all related to kidney health), and a urine specific gravity, which will tell you how concentrated his urine is (another important diagnostic for kidney disease). Ask for a copy of the results when you get them.

Sometimes a scruffy coat is one of the first symptoms when a cat has an illness brewing, so I think it would be a great idea to take Forest for a check-up. How is he eating today? ok i will look into that!

My bf told me he ate some kibble first and then went for the wet food and had a lil bit. They havent gotten lunch yet, but Gizzy is still staying strong on the wet :D although if we leave the kibble down he will try to have some...

Love4himies

January 10th, 2009, 07:25 PM

ok i will look into that!

My bf told me he ate some kibble first and then went for the wet food and had a lil bit. They havent gotten lunch yet, but Gizzy is still staying strong on the wet :D although if we leave the kibble down he will try to have some...

Wahoo for Forest. He will come along, he is just a bit more stubborn than Grizzy :laughing:

dollface

January 11th, 2009, 12:54 AM

I dunno about that... For the past week he has only been eating kibble once a day, only when he's really hungry. Today he ate twice. Its feeling like hit and miss lately...

p.s. its Gizzy ;)

sugarcatmom

January 11th, 2009, 11:35 AM

I dunno about that... For the past week he has only been eating kibble once a day, only when he's really hungry.

It's important that he get enough calories, can you tell how much he's eating in a day? If even his old kibble isn't appealing anymore, perhaps he needs a different kibble for the interim. I'm not sure if your friendly neighborhood pet food store gives out samples, but it doesn't hurt to ask if they have any for Innova EVO (http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1500). While no dry food is ideal, this one has the least carbohydrate content of most, and for some reason is like crack to most cats. In fact, you might want to prevent Gizzy from chowing down on a bowl of it in case you end up with a set-back in his transition. Evo is also easy to crush up and sprinkle on wet food. It should be okay if both cats ate it that way. Gizzy will just associate it with canned. In Forest's case, you could mix a 1/4 of the Evo with 3/4 of his old food, then slowly increase the Evo proportion over a week or so. This will hopefully avoid any intestinal issues, since Evo is higher in fat (and also much higher in calories) than most other dry foods.

dollface

January 11th, 2009, 12:42 PM

It's important that he get enough calories, can you tell how much he's eating in a day? If even his old kibble isn't appealing anymore, perhaps he needs a different kibble for the interim. I'm not sure if your friendly neighborhood pet food store gives out samples, but it doesn't hurt to ask if they have any for Innova EVO (http://www.evopet.com/products/default.asp?id=1500). While no dry food is ideal, this one has the least carbohydrate content of most, and for some reason is like crack to most cats. In fact, you might want to prevent Gizzy from chowing down on a bowl of it in case you end up with a set-back in his transition. Evo is also easy to crush up and sprinkle on wet food. It should be okay if both cats ate it that way. Gizzy will just associate it with canned. In Forest's case, you could mix a 1/4 of the Evo with 3/4 of his old food, then slowly increase the Evo proportion over a week or so. This will hopefully avoid any intestinal issues, since Evo is higher in fat (and also much higher in calories) than most other dry foods. OK sounds like a plan! Innova Evo CHECK, gonna try to do some shopping today.

For the past 2 days, only in the morning, Forest has eaten wet food for breakfast. But my bf is feeding him only in the morning, so maybe he has something to do with it? Either that, or Forest thinks its oatmeal for cats? :laughing:

dollface

January 12th, 2009, 01:38 AM

update: Forest ate wet food twice today. I think he almost ate a third time, but he prolly got scared when i pushed Gizzy away. Gizzy has taken on the role of food inspector and if its meant for cats he will eat it, if its meant for ppl he will sniff and try to take a chomp of your big mac only lol.

Anyways, Forest ate some Merrick's surf and turf for breakfast, and then for lunch he had the fancy feast beef and liver, and then for dinner i let him have kibble. Twice a day is an improvement, might as well not push it...

sugarcatmom

January 12th, 2009, 06:45 AM

Anyways, Forest ate some Merrick's surf and turf for breakfast, and then for lunch he had the fancy feast beef and liver, and then for dinner i let him have kibble. Twice a day is an improvement, might as well not push it...

:highfive: Fantastic! That's great progress.

Love4himies

January 12th, 2009, 07:03 AM

Great news :thumbs up :highfive:

Forest, stop giving mommy such a hard time with your food :yell: :D

dollface

January 12th, 2009, 09:34 AM

Great news :thumbs up :highfive:

Forest, stop giving mommy such a hard time with your food :yell: :D Yes please make him understand that!

bad news tho, kinda had a set back... first off it is our fault, we left the kibble out on top of the kitchen table thinking nothing of it since we know that they don't climb the table, or so we thought. Came home from the bank this morning, and the kibble bowl is empty. And see Forest sitting on the table as if it was nothing :yell: and then he peed on the carpet cuz I scruffed him to tell him that was bad...

and then, i look on the counter and see the empty dish that had fancy feast empty and saran wrap torn all around it, and guess who ate that?! Gizzy! It has not been a good start to today... :wall::wall::wall:

Love4himies

January 12th, 2009, 10:06 AM

Yes please make him understand that!

bad news tho, kinda had a set back... first off it is our fault, we left the kibble out on top of the kitchen table thinking nothing of it since we know that they don't climb the table, or so we thought. Came home from the bank this morning, and the kibble bowl is empty. And see Forest sitting on the table as if it was nothing :yell: and then he peed on the carpet cuz I scruffed him to tell him that was bad...

and then, i look on the counter and see the empty dish that had fancy feast empty and saran wrap torn all around it, and guess who ate that?! Gizzy! It has not been a good start to today... :wall::wall::wall:

I would be very concerned about the peeing, it just isn't normal.

Just a minor setback for the day. All cats will go where there is temptation waiting for them :laughing:.

dollface

January 12th, 2009, 01:47 PM

I would be very concerned about the peeing, it just isn't normal. We are taking him to the vet tonight, I'm 95% sure he has an upper respiratory infection, always sneezing, and I saw him the other day what sounded like him trying to blow his nose into his arm, and rubbing it as if it was itchy.

And as for the peeing, it is really worrying, since I've scared him by accident other times and he doesnt pee, and now these 2 incidents. Big vet bill tonight, but it must be done!

ancientgirl

January 12th, 2009, 01:56 PM

Good luck at the vets.:fingerscr

dollface

January 12th, 2009, 10:11 PM

Weren't able to make it to the vets tonight, so we will go tomorrow night. Almost afraid to go to the vet with a long list of possible ailments to check for:
-senior blood panel & urinalysis
-upper respiratory infection
-ear mites
-epilepsy
-pees anywhere when scared suddenly
-hyperthyroid or kidney disease
-Diabetes
-increased shedding with a dandruffy coat, often find clumps of hair with root still attached

we're gonna look like bad parents :|

Jim Hall

January 12th, 2009, 10:18 PM

nah not bad at all u doing great best of luck at the vets

lol gizzy gonna start meowing in a few days ya know

dollface

January 13th, 2009, 12:25 AM

nah not bad at all u doing great best of luck at the vets

lol gizzy gonna start meowing in a few days ya know thanks!

and lol what do you mean?

Love4himies

January 13th, 2009, 07:47 AM

Weren't able to make it to the vets tonight, so we will go tomorrow night. Almost afraid to go to the vet with a long list of possible ailments to check for:
-senior blood panel & urinalysis
-upper respiratory infection
-ear mites
-epilepsy
-pees anywhere when scared suddenly
-hyperthyroid or kidney disease
-Diabetes
-increased shedding with a dandruffy coat, often find clumps of hair with root still attached

we're gonna look like bad parents :|

Awww, no you won't, you will look like good parents doing the best for their kitty. :grouphug:. Most of the testing is bloodwork and physical exam. Good luck at the vets.

dollface

January 13th, 2009, 12:15 PM

I hope so!
Anybody want to take a guess at how much it will all be? :laughing:

ancientgirl

January 13th, 2009, 12:48 PM

I'd like to say less than $100, but I'll keep my fingers crossed it's not over $200!:fingerscr

sugarcatmom

January 13th, 2009, 01:15 PM

Prices can really vary quite a bit from clinic to clinic and city to city, so it's hard to say. I think I typically pay about $179 for full blood work and urinalysis, plus the cost of the office visit, but then I also go to a very expensive cat-only clinic. Hopefully your vet is cheaper.

dollface

January 14th, 2009, 06:14 PM

Ok so we went to the vet and out of my list the only thing the vet was concerned about was the urinalysis. And surprise surprise, the vet said I shouldnt change his diet to wet food and keep him on dry food but switch him to senior formula. That went in one ear and out the other, tho.

Anyways, since he had no urine in him I will be taking him in the morning for a sample and if anything is abnormal then they will do the blood tests. Other than that, the vet said Forest appears fine.

Are there no vets out there that actually care about the concerns we owners have for our pets? I would soo love to change vets and find one that ENDORSES wet food, and not shoot down my other concerns as if I am worrying too much. And doesnt ask why I would switch to wet food. I can really see the reason why they endorse dry food over wet, and that is b/c in case Forest does have crystals, then they can prescribe the DRY food and we in turn can spend MORE money from their office. DUH. If one can't see that logic, they need something! (I just can't think of it right now :laughing:) And if he doesnt have crystals maybe it will be because he is now eating WET food which helps prevent crystals. Hey theres a thought! :lightbulb:

So does anybody else think I should change vets? :laughing:

Anybody in the Woodbridge/Vaughan area (in ontario) know of a better vet? :D

oh and the cost was $50, visit price. Will prolly charge more for the sample tomorrow.

ancientgirl

January 14th, 2009, 06:25 PM

It's a good idea to ask around and see if you can find another vet if you don't feel comfortable with yours.

I consider myself VERY lucky. My vet is very open to all suggestions and is totally supportive of what I feed my cats. She even asked me for a lot of my own research into raw diets and wet foods.

Having a good vet is so important, especially one that is willing to hear you out.

sugarcatmom

January 14th, 2009, 07:04 PM

I would soo love to change vets and find one that ENDORSES wet food, and not shoot down my other concerns as if I am worrying too much.

Argh!!!!! Unfortunately a great many vets (the majority, really) are just completely clueless about nutrition, obviously this dude is no exception. But what really concerns me here is that he's being dismissive of your concern for your cat, and that to me is totally inexcusable. I agree with ancientgirl, it's important to have a vet that's willing to work with you. For that reason alone, I'd say find a new one. If/when you do, make sure to get your old clinic to fax your cat's records to the new place.

dollface

January 15th, 2009, 01:02 AM

It's a good idea to ask around and see if you can find another vet if you don't feel comfortable with yours.

I consider myself VERY lucky. My vet is very open to all suggestions and is totally supportive of what I feed my cats. She even asked me for a lot of my own research into raw diets and wet foods.

Having a good vet is so important, especially one that is willing to hear you out.

Wow you are very lucky! I can only hope I can find one like you have!

Argh!!!!! Unfortunately a great many vets (the majority, really) are just completely clueless about nutrition, obviously this dude is no exception. But what really concerns me here is that he's being dismissive of your concern for your cat, and that to me is totally inexcusable. I agree with ancientgirl, it's important to have a vet that's willing to work with you. For that reason alone, I'd say find a new one. If/when you do, make sure to get your old clinic to fax your cat's records to the new place.

So I think the only way to start this process would be to call around to different vets and ask what their opinion on wet food is for cats? And if they are pro wet then they would be a good candidate for a new vet, possibly?

On the food aspect: Forest has not had any kibble since Monday and 2/3's of his meals are fancy feast and eats whatever Merrick flavour my bf puts down in the morning (the other 1/3). What other brand of wet food has the paté style that Fancy Feast has? I don't think Forest is a fan of Merrick's texture, so next brand I will try Wellness. What kind of texture does Wellness have?

sugarcatmom

January 15th, 2009, 07:19 AM

So I think the only way to start this process would be to call around to different vets and ask what their opinion on wet food is for cats? And if they are pro wet then they would be a good candidate for a new vet, possibly?

Do you have any friends or family that can recommend a vet? Or is there a feline-only practice in the area? Not that it guarantees a good vet, but I find the cat specialists do tend to be more up-to-date on specifically feline issues. Or you could just ignore the food issue and if it ever comes with a new vet, say that it's not up for discussion. As long as they are great in other areas (such as actually listening to you!) then it could be something to overlook. Some links discussing vet selection:
http://www.specialneedspets.org/vetseek.htm
http://www.thetooncesproject.com/thetooncesproject/keepingyourpetsafe.html
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/choosing_a_veterinarian.html

On the food aspect: Forest has not had any kibble since Monday and 2/3's of his meals are fancy feast and eats whatever Merrick flavour my bf puts down in the morning (the other 1/3).

Yay!!!!! That's fantastic progress.

What other brand of wet food has the paté style that Fancy Feast has? I don't think Forest is a fan of Merrick's texture, so next brand I will try Wellness. What kind of texture does Wellness have?

Wellness is a pate. There's also Innova Evo 95% meat, Nature's Variety Instinct, By Nature Organics, Precise, Eagle Pack, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Natural Balance...... These all have varying degrees of "juiciness" and some are coarser in texture, but they're all loaf-style foods.

Love4himies

January 15th, 2009, 07:30 AM

I agree with sugarcatmom, I would be finding a new vet. Although my vet doesn't agree with raw (can't endorse it due to liability issues), he does agree with a quality canned.

The grainfree Wellness I find are about the same level of moisture, the Instinct on the other hand varies quite a bit. The Venison and the Lamb I actually add water to because it is very dense.

Way to go Forest :thumbs up. Bet you are feeling better on the canned.

ancientgirl

January 15th, 2009, 07:58 AM

I feed mine Innova, both the regular and the EVO which are pate types. There are also some Evanger flavors that are pate type.

dollface

January 15th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Do you have any friends or family that can recommend a vet? Or is there a feline-only practice in the area? Not that it guarantees a good vet, but I find the cat specialists do tend to be more up-to-date on specifically feline issues. Or you could just ignore the food issue and if it ever comes with a new vet, say that it's not up for discussion. As long as they are great in other areas (such as actually listening to you!) then it could be something to overlook. Some links discussing vet selection:
http://www.specialneedspets.org/vetseek.htm
http://www.thetooncesproject.com/thetooncesproject/keepingyourpetsafe.html
http://www.hsus.org/pets/pet_care/choosing_a_veterinarian.html

Yay!!!!! That's fantastic progress.

Wellness is a pate. There's also Innova Evo 95% meat, Nature's Variety Instinct, By Nature Organics, Precise, Eagle Pack, Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Natural Balance...... These all have varying degrees of "juiciness" and some are coarser in texture, but they're all loaf-style foods. unfortunately, we don't really know anybody in our building, nor have any friends or family in this area, so i'll have to look at calling around. Thanks for the links i will check them out. Next trip to GPF will be to try a different brand. I've discovered Gizzy will eat anything if its appetizing to him, so I shouldn't have many problems there :laughing:

Way to go Forest :thumbs up. Bet you are feeling better on the canned. yes i really am, it really is possible! :D he's gone cold turkey off kibble for 3.5 days lol i hope i didnt speak too soon...

I just remembered, when the vet asked which brand i switched to (wet food) I told him it was Merrick, and he didn't even know that was a brand let alone anything about it! Now what does that say about his clinic?! Not a whole lot! tsk tsk

Love4himies

January 16th, 2009, 08:17 AM

Sooooooo, now that we have the food transition in full swing, is it a good time to ask for some pics of Gizzy and Forest? :D Please :pray:

dollface

January 16th, 2009, 12:23 PM

Sooooooo, now that we have the food transition in full swing, is it a good time to ask for some pics of Gizzy and Forest? :D Please :pray: of them eating the new food? I will get some today! but if you want other pix i have lots of those if you'd like :laughing:

altho here is a video of what i recently bought Gizzy lol it should tie you over as long as you dont think i'm a bad parent lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOfBf_8amCM

ancientgirl

January 16th, 2009, 12:26 PM

Not necessarily of eating their food. We love pictures so them doing anything would be just fine with us.

dollface

January 16th, 2009, 12:27 PM

Not necessarily of eating their food. We love pictures so them doing anything would be just fine with us. OK see my previous post for a video :laughing:

My two grand kitties look just like your Gizzy and Forest. They are so beautiful :cloud9: :lovestruck: :cloud9: :lovestruck:

Thanks for sharing :grouphug:.

dollface

January 16th, 2009, 08:36 PM

thanks for the comments! i love furbabies! i plan to get 3 more and put them on a canned diet :D :highfive:

sugarcatmom

January 16th, 2009, 11:51 PM

Adorable! Gizzy looks like such a little goofball. Love that last pic of Forest - it could be a candidate for the Cats That Look Like Hitler (http://www.catsthatlooklikehitler.com/cgi-bin/seigmiaow.pl?2988) website:laughing:. In the cutest possible way, of course.

I bought 8 5.5oz cans, and the label says feed one can per day per 6 lbs body weight. Gizzy weighs about 10 lbs and Forest weighs about 12 lbs but has a bit of belly hanging, he feels like 15 lbs.

Lately, I've tried feeding about a tablespoon each meal time but not all of it gets eaten. Although, Ocean Breeze flavor was gone in one day and it seemed as if I wasn't feeding enough.

In the 2 weeks, I am now down to 2 cans left. Is that good?

ancientgirl

January 17th, 2009, 06:51 AM

OMG, I had no idea a site like that existed! Hilarious!

Dollface, mine get by on 2tablespoons at each feeding. If they don't eat it all at feeding time, they will always snack on it throughout the day. I know Vlad and Maks eat a little more than the girls so it works out well.

You should be able to get a better handle on what your guys need soon.

sugarcatmom

January 17th, 2009, 11:07 AM

back to canned food: how many cans should i be using per week?

It can really vary so much between cats and depends on factors like their age, size, activity level, and just their own individual metabolism, plus the amount of calories of the food (which can range from 20 to 40+ calories per ounce). A good starting place would be a full can per cat per day, which you can adjust up or down as you go along. The average (if there is such a thing as an "average" cat!) requirement is about 200-300 calories per day for a 10lb cat. Most of the higher end cat foods are somewhere between 180-210 calories for a 5.5oz can. If you put down 2 cans over the course of the day and there were constantly leftovers and neither cat was losing weight, then you could probably feed less. If every last morsel was eaten and they were losing weight anyway, you might want to feed a touch more. It's really not an exact science, but a reasonable base point is a can per cat per day. Like ancientgirl mentioned, you can leave the food out for snacking if they don't eat it all in one sitting (that's what I do too).

dollface

January 17th, 2009, 02:44 PM

OMG, I had no idea a site like that existed! Hilarious!

Which site? Youtube?

It can really vary so much between cats and depends on factors like their age, size, activity level, and just their own individual metabolism, plus the amount of calories of the food (which can range from 20 to 40+ calories per ounce). A good starting place would be a full can per cat per day, which you can adjust up or down as you go along. The average (if there is such a thing as an "average" cat!) requirement is about 200-300 calories per day for a 10lb cat. Most of the higher end cat foods are somewhere between 180-210 calories for a 5.5oz can. If you put down 2 cans over the course of the day and there were constantly leftovers and neither cat was losing weight, then you could probably feed less. If every last morsel was eaten and they were losing weight anyway, you might want to feed a touch more. It's really not an exact science, but a reasonable base point is a can per cat per day. Like ancientgirl mentioned, you can leave the food out for snacking if they don't eat it all in one sitting (that's what I do too).

Basically it is all coming down to the different flavours. Gizzy eats more of it if its fishy than meaty.

But usually I can feed about a tbsp of the meaty stuff and he eats it all except a couple licks.

Forest on the other hand is a lil bit harder to gauge, since I can't monitor him eating unless I put a hidden camera out. If he sees me watching, he wont eat, or he'll have 2 full bites and walk away. But he eats for my bf as if theres nothing wrong with it. :shrug:

I have a concern about leaving it out tho, I see that it gets dried out if i do that and they are less likely to eat it. So I've just put it back in the fridge to keep the moisture.

I hope I have all this down pat by the time I find a new job and wont be at home to "hold their hands" :laughing:

ancientgirl

January 17th, 2009, 03:01 PM

I meant the cats that look like Hitler. I'd never seen that before.

When I first began feeding wet, I also was afraid to leave it out. But one day I just forgot to put it in the fridge and came home and the food was gone. Sometimes as I have their little plates on the counter to wash, one of them will come on the counter and keep eating the crunchies.

sugarcatmom

January 17th, 2009, 08:18 PM

I have a concern about leaving it out tho, I see that it gets dried out if i do that and they are less likely to eat it. So I've just put it back in the fridge to keep the moisture.

What I do is add a couple extra tsps of water to the food so it takes a little longer to dry out.

When you do go back to work, you could try leaving a few cubes of frozen canned food to thaw on a plate. Just fill a spare ice cube tray with the canned and when it's frozen, empty into a freezer bag. Plop a couple in their dish in the morning and voila, they have snacks for later.

dollface

January 17th, 2009, 10:18 PM

What I do is add a couple extra tsps of water to the food so it takes a little longer to dry out.

When you do go back to work, you could try leaving a few cubes of frozen canned food to thaw on a plate. Just fill a spare ice cube tray with the canned and when it's frozen, empty into a freezer bag. Plop a couple in their dish in the morning and voila, they have snacks for later.

Wow thats a great idea! Thanks SCM you are a cat-goddess! :laughing: I think I will try that tonight if my freezer has room, we have to go out tomorrow so they may not get their full 3 meals.

update on Forest, I pressed some treats in his food tonight and he ate almost all of it, only licked a few times without the treats. So improvement YAY :fingerscr

Love4himies

January 18th, 2009, 08:09 AM

:highfive: Way to go Forest!

dollface

January 20th, 2009, 01:25 PM

Update:

We went to GPF last night, and bought 2 of Innova Evo (Duck and Beef), 2 Wellness (Turkey and Beef/Chicken), and 2 Nature's Variety (Venison & Lamb) to try out different textures. We didnt buy any with fish as we know that will be gobbled down.

They got Venison last night, Gizzy had 3 tsps and Forest had 1 tsp full, had 3 mouth fulls of it, stopped, I pressed some treats in and he ate the rest.

Forest weighs about 11 lbs and Gizzy maybe a lil less or about the same, is considerably skinnier but still is a healthy boy. How can the skinnier one eat more than the bigger one and not gain weight, and Forest's weight stays the same. Is that healthy?

ancientgirl

January 20th, 2009, 01:34 PM

Update:

We went to GPF last night, and bought 2 of Innova Evo (Duck and Beef), 2 Wellness (Turkey and Beef/Chicken), and 2 Nature's Variety (Venison & Lamb) to try out different textures. We didnt buy any with fish as we know that will be gobbled down.

They got Venison last night, Gizzy had 3 tsps and Forest had 1 tsp full, had 3 mouth fulls of it, stopped, I pressed some treats in and he ate the rest.

Forest weighs about 11 lbs and Gizzy maybe a lil less or about the same, is considerably skinnier but still is a healthy boy. How can the skinnier one eat more than the bigger one and not gain weight, and Forest's weight stays the same. Is that healthy?

Looks like you're making progress.

I think the weight also depends on their body type. Vlad is my heaviest at 17 pounds, but he carries is weight well and he's a big cat. Maks is also just about Vlad's height now, but he's leaner, his body type is a little different and he's weighing about 10-11 pounds. I'd say Vlad and Maks probably eat about the same amount of food, and they both eat slightly more than the girls, who all maintain weight from 11-8 pounds.

dollface

January 22nd, 2009, 01:33 PM

So it seems I've hit a pattern with Forest. He will take a few mouthfuls, walks away and grooms himself, I press in some treats and he eats the rest.

What I'm having trouble with is when Forest walks away, Gizzy thinks its a chance to eat Forest's cuz he thinks its different. And ever since switching to wet food, he has become quite the lil piggy. I'm pretty sure he is eating enough, but will I have to resort to feeding in separate rooms? I don't think Forest will fight for his food, but does for other things...

I have tried feeding Gizzy first and then get him to go in the bedroom so i can come back out to feed Forest. Yes that works, but if I have to leave or be somewhere where I cant do that, how else can I keep Gizzy away from Forest's portions?

ancientgirl

January 22nd, 2009, 01:46 PM

I can't give you any suggestions other than feeding Gizzy in another room. Mine do the same thing. They all eat the same food. When one has their fill for the moment, another comes to investigate and take a few bites. I keep telling them all it's the same food, but they won't listen.:D

Love4himies

January 22nd, 2009, 01:50 PM

That is the same problem I am facing with my cats. Sweet Pea is a food hog and Puddles and Jasper are munchers.
Jasper like your Forest only eats a couple of bitefuls at a time, goes off grooms himself, then will go back to eat a bit more. He will not fight Sweet Pea for his food, but will sit back and wait for her to be done. Unfortunately, when she is done, there is nothing left for Jasper :frustrated:.

Sooooo, I feed Sweet Pea in the bedroom with the door closed and Jasper and Puddles get fed in the kitchen. When Sweet Pea wants to come out of the bedroom, I lock up Puddles' and Jasper's food so she can't eat it. When Jasper wants to eat again, I take out the food and try to distract Sweet Pea while he is eating. Very time consuming, but is the only way I can keep Sweet Pea from getting too fat and Jasper from getting too skinny.

dollface

January 23rd, 2009, 11:25 PM

well i would just like to say thank you to every one for their help in this whole process!

Forest seems to be eating more and I think I have his pattern down pat now.

I had some freeze dried shrimps I got from Drs Foster & Smith and i took the crumbs and sprinkled it on his canned food and he eats it up, but still with the grooming in between.

Anybody know where I can get freeze dried shrimps other than that website? Shipping is very expensive so I would like to find somewhere else to get it if I run out and Forest doesnt want to eat his food...

Oh and Gizzy is of course just fine on WET food :D haha

Love4himies

January 24th, 2009, 11:22 AM

I am so happy they are doing well on the canned. Thanks for the update, dollface.

Your kitties are so pretty, when I look at their pics I want to kiss those soft tummies :cloud9::lovestruck:

dollface

January 25th, 2009, 09:06 PM

thanks for the compliment L4H http://www.pets.ca/forum/images/smilies/lovestruck.gif

just to add we've decided to feed Wellness as thats what Forest seems to like best! :D

dollface

March 8th, 2009, 09:35 PM

UPDATE:

So we're been feeding wet food for 2 months now and Forest has not had any hairballs since we fed the Iams dry diet Hairball Control, and even then he had a hairball about once a month.

Now the problem we seem to be having is vomitting. It's not Gizzy b/c he is a good eater and has only vomitted once when I fed him some treats when he was hungry and he ate them too fast. Gizzy still has hairballs but b/c him being at least part bengal nothing ever comes up, he just sounds like a squeak toy until it passes in his airways.

Ok so Friday night, Forest vomitted his lunch up while we were out. It was the last can of Turkey in the case. And then we came home tonight and there were 3 different piles (in mounds) of food vomit around the carpet. Do you think it's vet time? Should we wait and see if it happens again?

We are currently using Nature's Miracle Carpet Cleaner for pet stains, is there something better we should be using to clean the carpet? We rent this place so we need something that will clean the carpet!

sugarcatmom

March 8th, 2009, 11:14 PM

Do you think it's vet time? Should we wait and see if it happens again?

Could just be one of those things. I'd wait and see if it continues.

We are currently using Nature's Miracle Carpet Cleaner for pet stains, is there something better we should be using to clean the carpet? We rent this place so we need something that will clean the carpet!

3% hydrogen peroxide from the pharmacy. Best thing ever for vomit stains (and cheap too!). Just wipe up as much vomit as you can and then dribble some HP on the remainder, let it foam up, and blot the wet spot with a paper towel. It's like magic.

Love4himies

March 9th, 2009, 06:49 AM

If you find Forest goes off his food or can't keep any food down, then I would take him into the vet. It is furball season and Puddles often vomits (especially if she eats alot quickly) until she can get the furball completely out.

dollface

March 10th, 2009, 11:01 PM

great suggestion Sugarcatmom! Worked like magic :D

and Forest hasn't vommitted since I updated so I guess it was just one of those things...