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losing games early in the season? I said we lost our last 3 in '00 and 6 of 9, we lost 4 of 5 in 2008. using your logic you didn't earn either div title, we handed them to you.

I haven't been proven wrong, we didn't need to win a game after week 15 so essentially we clinched w/ our week 15 win and again we only needed a tie in week 17. There's no way we attempt a 50+ yd FG late in OT if we didn't know Buf had lost.

You can use the 12 worst years excuse but every decade Miami is getting worse. SB wins in the 70s, sb apps in the 80s, 1 title game app in the 90s, 1 playoff win in the 00s.

we have 6 more playoff wins since 2001, 5 more since '00. You have 1 playoff win since '00, your last title game app was 1992. we have been much better for a LONG time and that will likely continue b/c we have a down year here and there but alway bounce back, you guys stay down.

The Dolphins were never behind the Jets in 00 from week 12 on. The Dolphins were tied at 9-5 with 3 games to go and beat the Jets themselves in week 17 in 08. That is not needing help. If the Jets were ahead late in the season before losing more games, that would be different. Here is a good example: the Jets were 2 games behind Miami with 2 games to go in 02. That is needing help. The Jets lost 3 of 4 in 06 and would not have made it had Buff won. That is needing help.

It is not an excuse. I can't think of another 12 year period that was worse than the last 12 years and the Jets are barley ahead in playoff apps and regular season wins. Bragging about being little better in that time frame is laughable. Your team should have been way more ahead than they are. Thinking they will continue to be, is even more funny. The Jets are on the verge of a complete overhaul. I don't know what the future holds for the Dolphins, but I know right now it looks much better than the Jets.

You absolutely were proven wrong. You make assumptions and call them facts. I gave you quotes from the head coaches and players that say the complete opposite of what you claim. The fact is, the Jets lost 3 of their last 4 and needed Buff to lose the final game of the season to get in. There is no getting around that. The best teams don't back in like that.

The Dolphins were never behind the Jets in 00 from week 12 on. The Dolphins were tied at 9-5 with 3 games to go and beat the Jets themselves in week 17 in 08. That is not needing help. If the Jets were ahead late in the season before losing more games, that would be different. Here is a good example: the Jets were 2 games behind Miami with 2 games to go in 02. That is needing help. The Jets lost 3 of 4 in 06 and would not have made it had Buff won. That is needing help.

It is not an excuse. I can't think of another 12 year period that was worse than the last 12 years and the Jets are barley ahead in playoff apps and regular season wins. Bragging about being little better in that time frame is laughable. Your team should have been way more ahead than they are. Thinking they will continue to be, is even more funny. The Jets are on the verge of a complete overhaul. I don't know what the future holds for the Dolphins, but I know right now it looks much better than the Jets.

You absolutely were proven wrong. You make assumptions and call them facts. I gave you quotes from the head coaches and players that say the complete opposite of what you claim. The fact is, the Jets lost 3 of their last 4 and needed Buff to lose the final game of the season to get in. There is no getting around that. The best teams don't back in like that.

The Dolphins were never behind the Jets in 00 from week 12 on. The Dolphins were tied at 9-5 with 3 games to go and beat the Jets themselves in week 17 in 08. That is not needing help. If the Jets were ahead late in the season before losing more games, that would be different. Here is a good example: the Jets were 2 games behind Miami with 2 games to go in 02. That is needing help. The Jets lost 3 of 4 in 06 and would not have made it had Buff won. That is needing help.

It is not an excuse. I can't think of another 12 year period that was worse than the last 12 years and the Jets are barley ahead in playoff apps and regular season wins. Bragging about being little better in that time frame is laughable. Your team should have been way more ahead than they are. Thinking they will continue to be, is even more funny. The Jets are on the verge of a complete overhaul. I don't know what the future holds for the Dolphins, but I know right now it looks much better than the Jets.

You absolutely were proven wrong. You make assumptions and call them facts. I gave you quotes from the head coaches and players that say the complete opposite of what you claim. The fact is, the Jets lost 3 of their last 4 and needed Buff to lose the final game of the season to get in. There is no getting around that. The best teams don't back in like that.

More power to you if you like comparing which pile of dog **** smells better

More power to you if you like comparing which pile of dog **** smells better

Hardly! I am very proud of the Miami Dolphins history. Few teams have a better one. That being said, it has been a long time since the Dolphins have been relevant. I don't deny that. I only brought it up since Junc seems to think that these last 12 years is similar to what the Dolphins have done in their entire history. We have been getting worse each decade and these last 12 years have been the worst. The last 12 years have nothing to do with 70's, 80's and 90's, and is not an indication of how this team will perform in the future.

My main point was, as bad as these last 12 years have been, I'll still take them when they come with the rest of the Miami Dolphins history. I wouldn't trade the last 12 years for the Jets last 12 years (Especially since they have not won anything), when I have to take the rest of the Jets history along with it.

The Dolphins were never behind the Jets in 00 from week 12 on. The Dolphins were tied at 9-5 with 3 games to go and beat the Jets themselves in week 17 in 08. That is not needing help. If the Jets were ahead late in the season before losing more games, that would be different. Here is a good example: the Jets were 2 games behind Miami with 2 games to go in 02. That is needing help. The Jets lost 3 of 4 in 06 and would not have made it had Buff won. That is needing help.

It is not an excuse. I can't think of another 12 year period that was worse than the last 12 years and the Jets are barley ahead in playoff apps and regular season wins. Bragging about being little better in that time frame is laughable. Your team should have been way more ahead than they are. Thinking they will continue to be, is even more funny. The Jets are on the verge of a complete overhaul. I don't know what the future holds for the Dolphins, but I know right now it looks much better than the Jets.

You absolutely were proven wrong. You make assumptions and call them facts. I gave you quotes from the head coaches and players that say the complete opposite of what you claim. The fact is, the Jets lost 3 of their last 4 and needed Buff to lose the final game of the season to get in. There is no getting around that. The best teams don't back in like that.

Now taking shot calling our SB win then AFL/NFL championship? it was actually the first one to be called the Super Bowl and the single most significant game in pro football history.

It's awesome you guys were great in the 70s and really good most of the 80s but what does that have to do w/ recent, relevant history? Even when we absolutely suck we are still better than you and I love that it burns you up that you have to start talking about the 70s when you had a 2 year run of SBs inclduing the weakest sched ever for a SB champ in 1972. Miami has a better overall history but it's been a LONG time since you were consistently better than us. Sorry the truth hurts.

on the verge of a complete overhaul? we are ONE game out of a playoff spot despite all the injuries and all the drama. We'll make some moves w/o a doubt but there is not a complete overhaul on the horizon. We have a winning organization now and we only need to tweak.

head coaches never lie so you got me on that quote! use common sense for a change please.

The Giants made it at 9-7, they "backed in" acccording to you in 2007 so I guess sometimes they do "back in"(even though there is no such thing as backing in).

Originally Posted by The New Guy

Hardly! I am very proud of the Miami Dolphins history. Few teams have a better one. That being said, it has been a long time since the Dolphins have been relevant. I don't deny that. I only brought it up since Junc seems to think that these last 12 years is similar to what the Dolphins have done in their entire history. We have been getting worse each decade and these last 12 years have been the worst. The last 12 years have nothing to do with 70's, 80's and 90's, and is not an indication of how this team will perform in the future.

My main point was, as bad as these last 12 years have been, I'll still take them when they come with the rest of the Miami Dolphins history. I wouldn't trade the last 12 years for the Jets last 12 years (Especially since they have not won anything), when I have to take the rest of the Jets history along with it.

Many teams have better histories than Miami, you were great for about a decade but it's been a LONG time since you were a top team and you only have 2 SB titles just 1 more than the lowly Jets so stop pretending you are the Yankees of the NFL.

You would trade the last 12 years b/c my team has been one of the best in the AFC, never THE best which sucks but we had SB chances many times which is somethingMiami hasn't been able to say probably since 1994 when the AFC was a joke and they choked at SD.

Now taking shot calling our SB win then AFL/NFL championship? it was actually the first one to be called the Super Bowl and the single most significant game in pro football history.

Is that not what it was? Were the Jets not part of the AFL and the Colts not part of the NFL? Yes, it was the first to be called the Super Bowl and the two previous AFL-NFL Championship Games also came to be known, retroactively, as "Super Bowls", but the fact is, they were AFL-NFL Championships. Sorry if that offends you.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

It's awesome you guys were great in the 70s and really good most of the 80s but what does that have to do w/ recent, relevant history? Even when we absolutely suck we are still better than you and I love that it burns you up that you have to start talking about the 70s when you had a 2 year run of SBs inclduing the weakest sched ever for a SB champ in 1972. Miami has a better overall history but it's been a LONG time since you were consistently better than us. Sorry the truth hurts.

You are the one who brought it up first and the one who seems to think that the 70's and 80's has something to do with recent, relevant history. You say we have been getting worse each decade and act like that has something to do with how this team will perform in the future. It is a funny thing to hear coming from a Jets fan. I simply pointed out how much better (even getting worse each decade) the Dolphins have been than the Jets. The Jets need another 2 decades of Miami being at their worst and the Jets being at their best to start to compare.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

on the verge of a complete overhaul? we are ONE game out of a playoff spot despite all the injuries and all the drama. We'll make some moves w/o a doubt but there is not a complete overhaul on the horizon. We have a winning organization now and we only need to tweak.

Have you not watched any Jets games this year? The Jets are riding their first two game win streak of the season by beating two great teams in AZ and Jax. The Jets needed to bring in their 3rd string QB in order to beat AZ by 1 point. The same team that got thrashed 58-0 the next week by Seattle. The Jags have lost 11 games and only 4 (including the Jets win) have been within 7 points. The 6-7 Jets are 1 game out of a playoff spot. The 5-8 Dolphins are 2 games out. So what? I know it is fun as a fan to get exited about that, but reality is, neither team is going to or deserves to go to the playoffs. You can use the injury excuse all you want, but the Jets have way more problems than the injuries to some key players. The Jets are most likely stuck with Sanchez for another year. I know you think that every year that this will finally be the year that Sanchez takes the next step, but he has regressed yet again. I'm certain we will be hearing how much better he will be next year when they get him some more help. I doubt the Jets will blow things up at the end of this year, but 1 more year of being a media joke off and on the field, and Woody will certainly make some big changes.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

head coaches never lie so you got me on that quote! use common sense for a change please.

Why would Edwards and the Jets players lie when it makes them look bad? They played to win the game. You can speculate on whether the Jets would have attempted a 52 yard FG in OT or not, but even if they punted instead, who says the Jets would have been able to stop the Rams from getting into FG range and winning the game anyways? It was the Rams 3rd possession in OT. Here is what we know for sure; the Jets lost the game and needed Buff to lose in order to get in. Those are the facts.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

The Giants made it at 9-7, they "backed in" acccording to you in 2007 so I guess sometimes they do "back in"(even though there is no such thing as backing in).

The Giants actually won 3 out of their last 4 (beating Dallas twice themselves) to win the division. They weren't 2 games behind Dallas with two games to go. They didn't lose 3 out of their last 4 and need some other team to beat Dallas for them to clinch a spot. They did it themselves. They also won the Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Many teams have better histories than Miami, you were great for about a decade but it's been a LONG time since you were a top team and you only have 2 SB titles just 1 more than the lowly Jets so stop pretending you are the Yankees of the NFL.

You would trade the last 12 years b/c my team has been one of the best in the AFC, never THE best which sucks but we had SB chances many times which is somethingMiami hasn't been able to say probably since 1994 when the AFC was a joke and they choked at SD.

The Dolphins have the 3rd highest winning % in NFL history. Only 4 teams have been to more Super Bowls. Only 8 teams have won more Super Bowls. Only 8 teams have more playoff wins. The Dolphins are the only team in NFL history to ever complete an undefeated season.

The Jets have 1 less Super Bowl win, 4 fewer Super Bowl apps, 10 less playoff apps, 11 fewer AFCE titles, 45 less franchise wins (despite being in the league 6 years longer), 10 less of winning 11 or more games in a season.

Why in the world would I trade histories for the Jets last 12 years? Especially when the Jets only have 3 more playoff apps and 7 more regular season wins than the lowly Dolphins during the same time period. I would probably trade for the Patriots last 12 years, but certainly not the Jets.

Is that not what it was? Were the Jets not part of the AFL and the Colts not part of the NFL? Yes, it was the first to be called the Super Bowl and the two previous AFL-NFL Championship Games also came to be known, retroactively, as "Super Bowls", but the fact is, they were AFL-NFL Championships. Sorry if that offends you.

You are the one who brought it up first and the one who seems to think that the 70's and 80's has something to do with recent, relevant history. You say we have been getting worse each decade and act like that has something to do with how this team will perform in the future. It is a funny thing to hear coming from a Jets fan. I simply pointed out how much better (even getting worse each decade) the Dolphins have been than the Jets. The Jets need another 2 decades of Miami being at their worst and the Jets being at their best to start to compare.

Have you not watched any Jets games this year? The Jets are riding their first two game win streak of the season by beating two great teams in AZ and Jax. The Jets needed to bring in their 3rd string QB in order to beat AZ by 1 point. The same team that got thrashed 58-0 the next week by Seattle. The Jags have lost 11 games and only 4 (including the Jets win) have been within 7 points. The 6-7 Jets are 1 game out of a playoff spot. The 5-8 Dolphins are 2 games out. So what? I know it is fun as a fan to get exited about that, but reality is, neither team is going to or deserves to go to the playoffs. You can use the injury excuse all you want, but the Jets have way more problems than the injuries to some key players. The Jets are most likely stuck with Sanchez for another year. I know you think that every year that this will finally be the year that Sanchez takes the next step, but he has regressed yet again. I'm certain we will be hearing how much better he will be next year when they get him some more help. I doubt the Jets will blow things up at the end of this year, but 1 more year of being a media joke off and on the field, and Woody will certainly make some big changes.

Why would Edwards and the Jets players lie when it makes them look bad? They played to win the game. You can speculate on whether the Jets would have attempted a 52 yard FG in OT or not, but even if they punted instead, who says the Jets would have been able to stop the Rams from getting into FG range and winning the game anyways? It was the Rams 3rd possession in OT. Here is what we know for sure; the Jets lost the game and needed Buff to lose in order to get in. Those are the facts.

The Giants actually won 3 out of their last 4 (beating Dallas twice themselves) to win the division. They weren't 2 games behind Dallas with two games to go. They didn't lose 3 out of their last 4 and need some other team to beat Dallas for them to clinch a spot. They did it themselves. They also won the Super Bowl.

The Dolphins have the 3rd highest winning % in NFL history. Only 4 teams have been to more Super Bowls. Only 8 teams have won more Super Bowls. Only 8 teams have more playoff wins. The Dolphins are the only team in NFL history to ever complete an undefeated season.

The Jets have 1 less Super Bowl win, 4 fewer Super Bowl apps, 10 less playoff apps, 11 fewer AFCE titles, 45 less franchise wins (despite being in the league 6 years longer), 10 less of winning 11 or more games in a season.

Why in the world would I trade histories for the Jets last 12 years? Especially when the Jets only have 3 more playoff apps and 7 more regular season wins than the lowly Dolphins during the same time period. I would probably trade for the Patriots last 12 years, but certainly not the Jets.

it was still a SB, right? and we beat a team much better than the 2 you beat.

It's been a LONG time since you were consistently better than us, I know it burns you up and I love it.

We stink this year but even when we stink we are in the playoff race. Amazing, isn't it? a team is not getting in at 8-8, we have a chance at 9-7. You aren't in the race despite only being a game back.

The Jets D is very good and will get better w/ Revis back and the continued development of Wilkerson and Coples.

Offensively we need weapons but w/ good health we'll have Holmes, Braylon, Kerley, Keller, Hill. That's a pretty good group when healthy. The RBs are playing much better as is the OL but we could still use upgrades. we don't need an overhaul, we need some tweaking.

No coach or player is going to say they would have played for a tie.

but we won 5 of our last 6 in '09 and supposedly backed in.

They needed Dallas to choke losing 4 of their last 5 to win the division.

congrats on win %, let me know when they give trophies out for win %. You only have TWO SB titles, 1 more than us. You aren't anywhere near the discussion for best franchise.

in the last decade we have 4 more playoff apps and 5 more playoff wins. If you wouldn't trade our last decade or so I can't help you, enjoy that win % thing as it is completely meaningless.

it was still a SB, right? and we beat a team much better than the 2 you beat.

No, it was called a Super Bowl, but it was actually an AFL / NFL Championship game.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

It's been a LONG time since you were consistently better than us, I know it burns you up and I love it.

I've never said otherwise. I'm glad you thinking that it burns me up brings you so much joy. In your best 12 years as a franchise you have 3 more playoff apps and 7 more regular season wins than the Dolphins in their worst. The Jets haven't won anything meaningful in that time period. That burns me so bad.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

We stink this year but even when we stink we are in the playoff race. Amazing, isn't it? a team is not getting in at 8-8, we have a chance at 9-7. You aren't in the race despite only being a game back.

It's fools gold. Get back to me in a few weeks.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

The Jets D is very good and will get better w/ Revis back and the continued development of Wilkerson and Coples.
Offensively we need weapons but w/ good health we'll have Holmes, Braylon, Kerley, Keller, Hill. That's a pretty good group when healthy. The RBs are playing much better as is the OL but we could still use upgrades. we don't need an overhaul, we need some tweaking.

Last year it was because of the injuries to the O-line, this year it is the injuries to Revis and Holmes. Next year it will be something else. Holmes will be coming back from foot surgery, Braylon hasn't been the same player since his knee injury, Keller seem to have become injury prone and Hill looks more like a bust than a boom right now. Sanchez will still be your QB and if they get rid of Tony he will be learning another new offense. If they don't get rid of Tony, they will still have Tony. You should have plenty of excuses for Sanchez.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

but we won 5 of our last 6 in '09 and supposedly backed in.

I think you know why that was different. Hint; it has something to do with a team not playing their starters.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

They needed Dallas to choke losing 4 of their last 5 to win the division.

Wrong again. They were only 1 game back of Dallas with 5 games to go and still had Dallas on the schedule twice. They beat Dallas both times so they didn't need Dallas to lose to anyone else.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

congrats on win %, let me know when they give trophies out for win %. You only have TWO SB titles, 1 more than us. You aren't anywhere near the discussion for best franchise.

in the last decade we have 4 more playoff apps and 5 more playoff wins. If you wouldn't trade our last decade or so I can't help you, enjoy that win % thing as it is completely meaningless.

I said I wouldn't trade the last 12 years when I have to trade the two teams entire histories along with it. I'll take struggling for 12 years when it comes with everything else compared to the Jets.

Congrats on getting 50% of your franchise playoff win total in the last 12 years! Let me know when they give trophies out for playoff wins and AFCC game losses. Enjoy those as they are completely meaningless.

No, it was called a Super Bowl, but it was actually an AFL / NFL Championship game.

I've never said otherwise. I'm glad you thinking that it burns me up brings you so much joy. In your best 12 years as a franchise you have 3 more playoff apps and 7 more regular season wins than the Dolphins in their worst. The Jets haven't won anything meaningful in that time period. That burns me so bad.

It's fools gold. Get back to me in a few weeks.

Last year it was because of the injuries to the O-line, this year it is the injuries to Revis and Holmes. Next year it will be something else. Holmes will be coming back from foot surgery, Braylon hasn't been the same player since his knee injury, Keller seem to have become injury prone and Hill looks more like a bust than a boom right now. Sanchez will still be your QB and if they get rid of Tony he will be learning another new offense. If they don't get rid of Tony, they will still have Tony. You should have plenty of excuses for Sanchez.

I think you know why that was different. Hint; it has something to do with a team not playing their starters.

Wrong again. They were only 1 game back of Dallas with 5 games to go and still had Dallas on the schedule twice. They beat Dallas both times so they didn't need Dallas to lose to anyone else.

I said I wouldn't trade the last 12 years when I have to trade the two teams entire histories along with it. I'll take struggling for 12 years when it comes with everything else compared to the Jets.

Congrats on getting 50% of your franchise playoff win total in the last 12 years! Let me know when they give trophies out for playoff wins and AFCC game losses. Enjoy those as they are completely meaningless.

and what is your point?

It does burn you, that's why you have to bring up the 70s to zing me back!

making the playoffs is never fools gold.

I didn't say we missed the playoffs b/c of injuries to the OL last year, our OL stunk. I didn't blame the injuries.

Maybe Braylon just needs Sanchez throwing him the ball?

all these excuses and we're still better than your team.

yep, we got a qtr and a half of non starters so I guess you guys backed in during the '08 season playing 5-6 dead teams to end the season?

I love the excuses and it's even funnier seeing you whine about me making excuses.

you are wrong again. They needed Dallas to choke away the division. if Dallas goes 3-2 they win the divison but they completely collapsed.

It's been fun watching my team in the playoffs having chances to reach SBs, it sure beats being home every year in january.

You said I was taking a shot at the Jets for calling it an AFL / NFL Championship. That is exactly what it was.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

It does burn you, that's why you have to bring up the 70s to zing me back!

I'm not the one who brought it up first. You did with your comment of the Dolphins getting worse each decade. I just pointed out how much better the Dolphins have been while getting worse each decade. It burns me that the Dolphins have been bad for 12 years. What the Jets have done in that same time period does not bother me in the least. Believe it or not.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

making the playoffs is never fools gold.

The Jets are making the playoffs?

Originally Posted by nyjunc

I didn't say we missed the playoffs b/c of injuries to the OL last year, our OL stunk. I didn't blame the injuries.

You not only blamed the injuries for missing the playoffs, but also said that is why Sanchez played so poorly last year. Every year you have a new excuse for Sanchez. I'm sure next year will be no different.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

Maybe Braylon just needs Sanchez throwing him the ball?

Good one.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

all these excuses and we're still better than your team.

And your team still stinks. Bad is bad. I've said it many times before, I'm glad you feel good about the Jets finishing a couple games ahead of a 6-10 team. I'm sure Charger fans feel great that they are finishing ahead of the Raiders.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

yep, we got a qtr and a half of non starters so I guess you guys backed in during the '08 season playing 5-6 dead teams to end the season?

How did the Jets fair playing 2 out of 3 dead teams to finish the 2011 season?

Originally Posted by nyjunc

you are wrong again. They needed Dallas to choke away the division. if Dallas goes 3-2 they win the division but they completely collapsed.

Sorry, the Giants were 1 game back with 4 games to go and still had Dallas on the schedule twice. Losing one game in the beginning of December is not needing a team to choke away the division. The Jets are the team that needed the Dolphins to choke away the division in 02 by being 2 games back with 2 games to go. Can you not see the difference? The Giants played a big part in the Cowboys collapse by beating them twice in the last 4 games of the season. The Jets had nothing to do with the Dolphins choking.

Originally Posted by nyjunc

It's been fun watching my team in the playoffs having chances to reach SBs, it sure beats being home every year in january.

I'm sure it does. That doesn't make your team one of the best for over a decade. Outside of the crazy 2009 and 2010 runs (which accounted for 70% of the Jets playoff wins in the last 12 years), the Jets had nearly the same playoff record as Miami. If the Jets were really one of the best, how can that be? How can two years take you from being on par with one of the worst teams the last 12 years to one of the best? It can't.