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What is really sad Ed, is that this is not a new story, but a repeat of what we have had to go through every year since ADAP was created. This time though, I am not as hopeful or positive as I have been in the past, because really, nobody really cares anymore, and they are tired of the HIV pandemic, which in their minds will go away if they just ignore it.

I guess we'll see how this thread goes, but I would be surprised if it got anyone who is a member here pissed off enough to really do anything about it but complain more and more.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

This ADAP funding crisis is very hard to decipher for a good solution. With rising numbers of HIV infections along with rising numbers of people needing medical assistance, our government sends all sort of money overseas (for wars and aid to other nations) while misspending money here (like in SC for beauty pageants and golf tournaments). Part of me hopes that the $126 million can be gotten to "fix" this year's shortfall; while the other part of me knows that if the money was better spent, we could have already properly funded the ADAP program and never had this "crisis". It saddens me to think of all the people who will suffer without meds or by losing the meds that they have been receiving. Even if more money is pumped into the program, there have already been over 1000 people whose lives have been severely affected by these shortfalls.

I guess we'll see how this thread goes, but I would be surprised if it got anyone who is a member here pissed off enough to really do anything about it but complain more and more.

sadly, you're probably right, as several members and I have been discussed this very issue. I'm coming to think that there is a great apathy that is dooming the ADAP program.

First, like you said, the general public just wants the problem to go away. Having heard about AIDS for years and years, people are just tired/apathetic of this long-term epidemic. Of course, not having people die as frequently and the general impression that the problem has been "solved" with once-a-day pills makes the average joe not understand the issue behind people dying without ADAP-supplied meds.

Then there's the sad attitude among pozzies of a kind of "I've got mine, so I don't care about you". We hear in the some threads how precarious it is for some people to keep access to meds, a situation that is very hard for others, who have never had access problems, to sympathize with and/or to understand.

Even people who are using or have used help from ADAP seem apathetic to speaking out, rallying or offering any solutions beyond stating the obvious problem.

At the recent rally in SC, I was distressed to only see 200+ people representing 2000+ people helped by ADAP in that state. Mainly Social Workers, Agency directors and Pastors, along with a few activists like myself and less than a dozen actual ADAP-users added up to only 10% representing the people who currently use ADAP in SC. Leaving after the rally, all I could wonder was where were those 2000+ ADAP users fighting to keep their assistance and the meds that they needed to stay alive??

anyone interested in contacting government officials about the ADAP crisis can find more information in edfu's earlier thread, Demand that President & Congress Address the ADAP Crisis!, to contact officials at the federal level; or in my thread specific to SC,SC ADAP Funding Cut Protest Rally, with contact information about SC state officials and the rallies that have been held in Columbia SC - that have thankfully influenced our legislators, while unfortunately not to add to the ADAP budget, at least not to not strip out the regular budgeted ADAP monies.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

I look it like this, as in the famous quote from Rev. Martin Niemoller in World War II:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me,and by that time no one was left to speak up."

A related thought about this crisis that keeps disturbing me (and it has been raised before): So many are doing so much to encourage everyone to get tested for HIV. However, if you end up testing positive and cannot afford anti-retrovirals without the assistance of programs like ADAP, and you're put on a waiting list with hundreds of names ahead of you....

What then? Psychologically--let alone medically--are you better off knowing, even though you can't do anything to fight the virus? Does this situation contribute to encourage many to test?

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

Well, I hardly think that using your life as a bargaining chip is the wisest possible idea. If you are under the poverty level in the US, you qualify for assistance - from food stamps to free-or seriously reduced- medical treatment. Most states with an AIDS Service organization will have a social worker on staff who can assist you in getting your meds. There also is a fairly large underground network of drug donations. I myself participated often in ine here on AIDSMEDS, run by the late and lamented Lisa Nowack.

Can you imagine that she was actually given flack, and run underground herself by members of this very forum for redistributing drugs?

There are almost ALWAYS possibilities. You have to keep your wits about you, and cultivate a strong network of support. One of the perks of disclosure is that when the chips are down, those who know what you are going through are likely to be in the position to be of some help.

As far as not testing, well, the alternative is going to the hospital when one comes down with PCP or another preventable OI. And then bankrupting themselves, losing all possessions and having to negotiate the quagmire of social security and disability when one is in no position to think clearly, or to wait.

After that, assuming you don't die, yeah, then stuff gets a lot more free.

For the rest of your artificially lengthened life, as the slightest blip in income can strip all those lifesaving meds and doctors visits and food and shelter out from under a person.

The system IS broken, I admit. However, throwing ourselves into the gears to stop that system is NOT sabotage. It is suicide.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

"He noted that Sens. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) and Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) introduced a bill last month that would take the $126 million needed for ADAP this year from the federal stimulus program, where there are millions of dollars in unobligated funds.

Sens. Michael Enzi (R-Wyo.) and George LeMieux (R-Fla.) also signed onto the bill, but no Democrats so far have agreed to become co-sponsors. Weinstein said Democratic sources in the Senate told him the bill would be “dead on arrival” when sent to a committee to consider it."

No Democrats makes me wonder if there are other stipulations to the bill that aren't mentioned. I'm also quite suspicious that this is being proposed by Republicans. I'll take an ally where I can find one however.

Well, I hardly think that using your life as a bargaining chip is the wisest possible idea. If you are under the poverty level in the US, you qualify for assistance - from food stamps to free-or seriously reduced- medical treatment. Most states with an AIDS Service organization will have a social worker on staff who can assist you in getting your meds. There also is a fairly large underground network of drug donations. I myself participated often in ine here on AIDSMEDS, run by the late and lamented Lisa Nowack.

Can you imagine that she was actually given flack, and run underground herself by members of this very forum for redistributing drugs?

There are almost ALWAYS possibilities. You have to keep your wits about you, and cultivate a strong network of support. One of the perks of disclosure is that when the chips are down, those who know what you are going through are likely to be in the position to be of some help.

As far as not testing, well, the alternative is going to the hospital when one comes down with PCP or another preventable OI. And then bankrupting themselves, losing all possessions and having to negotiate the quagmire of social security and disability when one is in no position to think clearly, or to wait.

After that, assuming you don't die, yeah, then stuff gets a lot more free.

For the rest of your artificially lengthened life, as the slightest blip in income can strip all those lifesaving meds and doctors visits and food and shelter out from under a person.

The system IS broken, I admit. However, throwing ourselves into the gears to stop that system is NOT sabotage. It is suicide.

Jonathan, for the first time in your long history of sometimes brilliant posts I am completely bewildered by this response. I have long been a fan, so it pains me to state that I really don't understand what you're saying. Your mixed metaphor has me completely confused: "using your life as a bargaining chip" and "throwing ourselves into the gears." One does not throw chips into gears. I hope you would clarify.

To "keep your wits about you" implies that one's wits are at the same high level as yours and others on this board. To "cultivate a strong network of support" implies that such a network exists and that one knows how to cultivate it. No offense intended, but do you really believe such a strong network exists in, for example, Utah, with a waiting list? Do you think that an IV-drug user, for example, knows how to cultivate any existing network or knows that he can come to AIDSmeds.com for advice, even supposing he or anyone else recently diagnosed has access to a computer?

I have nothing against an "underground railroad" of ARV-drug supply, when our health-care system is so disfunctional, but is that the best advice that can be given to a new PWA? Do you really believe that there are social workers in every state who can assist a newbie to acquire HAART? There have been too many posts here recently from those who have difficulty in accessing ADAP for me to believe that.

So...do you really believe that those who cannot access ARV's are no more than chips in the gears? Do you think that those who refuse to be tested because they know they cannot afford the drugs and do not know how to acquire them are nothing more than suicidal?

I ask you all of this with great respect but with great sorrow and confusion.

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"No one will ever be free so long as there are pestilences."--Albert Camus, "The Plague"

"Mankind can never be free until the last brick in the last church falls on the head of the last priest."--Voltaire

The underground effort is a great way to bridge an awful gap between ADAP, often incompetent social workers, and ASO's. Especially for those who are already on medical regimen that cannot (or at least should not) be interrupted.

I think that by putting ourselves at risk, we can indeed break the system and call attention to the plight of those who are underserved by ASO and governmental/pharma assistance. I also think that such efforts are foolhardy, since they place the people who perform such acts at risk for OIs, resistance, and even death.

There is a better way. There HAS to be.

ONE: Make use of these temporary underground avenues. And react with swift certainty towards those who criticize them or who threaten them. I saw scant little of that when people came up against Lisa. And it broke her heart. hey threatened to turn her into the authorities, and threaten her very life (housing, disability, et al) if she continued.

SUPPORT those who want to help.

As far as not testing, that is still the main cause of AIDS in the developed world. Regardless of the ease of ability of meds and treatment, getting tested, knowing one's status, is STILL the best way we can beat this thing.

Do I think that those who cannot access ARV's are chips in gears? I do. In the worst possible way, I do.

But the way to avoid being that chip is to GET TESTED, and KNOW your status, and find a way to treatment. Screw it if it is illegal ( like transferring opened and unused meds is currently illegal) or even immoral ( like staying under the health department or insurance radar). BE HEALTHY. STAY WELL.

This is what is important. I am astonished that such admonishments are still necessary, or that they remain controversial. We live in a time there, at least in developed countries, not knowing your status is tantamount to suicide - and choice.

If I have offended, please let me know where and when.

I will always advocate for the best treatment for the most people, everywhere.

And I have a box of truvada, Isentress, Prezista, and Norvir. For anyone who needs that.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Well, I hardly think that using your life as a bargaining chip is the wisest possible idea.

The system IS broken, I admit. However, throwing ourselves into the gears to stop that system is NOT sabotage. It is suicide.

I'm sorry but I did't really understand the point you were trying to make with those comments either

in the rest of your post you made an awful lot of assumptions that just aren't true:1) many people may not even have internet access to know of donated meds distribution programs like you mentioned.

2) many people do not live in a city/area with an ASO for any guidance or assistance.I didn't have an ASO in my city of nearly 100,000 in Ohio for nearly 20 yrs to help me with any food stamps, ADAP, doctors, counseling, etc. It wasn't until nearly a year ago when I moved to SC that I had an ASO (that serves a tri-county area) to assist me

You have to keep your wits about you, and cultivate a strong network of support. One of the perks of disclosure is that when the chips are down, those who know what you are going through are likely to be in the position to be of some help.

I happen to now live in state where the majority of new AIDS cases (not just HIV+) are African-Americans with drug-addiction issues. I doubt they have a network of support to get supplies of HIV meds; much less a network to get unprescribed, free HIV meds. Most of those people don't have any support systems for any of their needs. For many of those people disclosure of their HIV status is a long way down on their list of things to do after confronting their drug addiction issues and the damage that has caused in their lives.

4) many people find out about their hiv status at a point where it has already progressed to AIDS

the alternative is going to the hospital when one comes down with PCP or another preventable OI. And then bankrupting themselves, losing all possessions and having to negotiate the quagmire of social security and disability when one is in no position to think clearly, or to wait.

exactly! today many people will be diagnosed with AIDS and go down that exact path and that's partially why we have an ADAP program. Not everyone is "lucky" enough to know years in advance of their impeding health crisis and has the ability to head it off. The scenario you describe is exactly how it happened to me in 1996 and is still happening to people now in 2010.

For the rest of your artificially lengthened life, as the slightest blip in income can strip all those lifesaving meds and doctors visits and food and shelter out from under a person.

exactly! NC and SC both are now throwing people out of the ADAP program. Those states have changed the requirements for eligibility. When a yearly review is made now, if you no longer qualify (by as little as $1), you lose your access to meds and have to find access to several thousands of dollars for meds before your last refill is gone. Of course, that means people end up with no treatment, causing resistance issues and health issues. In the past, this has even lead to deaths in SC and Kentucky.

I hope you can understand how your post was confusing. You talk about situations that do not apply to everyone who might need medical assistance or is even already on assistance. You seem to take for granted some of the hardships that people have in obtaining and keeping access to HIV meds; but then you go on to explain some of those very hardships.

Well, I hardly think that using your life as a bargaining chip is the wisest possible idea.

The system IS broken, I admit. However, throwing ourselves into the gears to stop that system is NOT sabotage. It is suicide.

People's lives are already in jeopardy and seem to be the currency some state governments are bargaining with. In trying to figure out the solution to this broken system, I don't see attending rallies or emailing legislators as sabotage of throwing myself into the gears.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

The underground effort is a great way to bridge an awful gap between ADAP, often incompetent social workers, and ASO's. Especially for those who are already on medical regimen that cannot (or at least should not) be interrupted.

I think that by putting ourselves at risk, we can indeed break the system and call attention to the plight of those who are underserved by ASO and governmental/pharma assistance. I also think that such efforts are foolhardy, since they place the people who perform such acts at risk for OIs, resistance, and even death.

Not that those can't serve a purpose; but why go about things illegally and through "underground networks"?

Emailing legislators, demonstrating at rallies, reporting incompetent social workers, becoming client advocates on ASO boards, campaigning for better officials, etc - all those kinds of actions can "fix" the broken system without breaking laws or illegally dealing in medications.

I definitely understand that desperate times call for desperate measures; but rather than suggesting crimes, I think we should be trying to find solutions - good permanent solutions.

I think that by putting ourselves at risk, ... I also think that such efforts are foolhardy, since they place the people who perform such acts at risk for OIs, resistance, and even death.

are you suggesting that people go off meds in some sort of "protest" against the system? I know that's not what I understood anyone to be suggesting. All those proper legal actions I suggested put no one at risk; but hopefully remove the risk by getting ADAP access to the those who need the assistance.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

Not that those can't serve a purpose; but why go about things illegally and through "underground networks"?

Please show me the "legal" way to contribute a half a month's supply of these drugs? Once opened, it is illegal to give them away.

Underground networks remain the only way that these drugs can be re-distributed. So in this case yes, I am advocating breaking the law.

What alternatives to DO recommend? What should I do with three month's supply of a drug that I no longer need, but that others here online need with such desperation?

As for your idea regarding signing petitions, do not think that I do that. I do. I also see it as the fools' errand that it is.

we are talking literally life or death for real people. Moving the system takes time. And for someone who has seen multiple lovers pass away thanks to slow moving legislation, I am appalled that you would even blink at such a thing as sending unused drugs to those whose lives could be saved.

Surely those precious months of safety are worth a little leeway? I could not imagine you would have withheld your lovers' meds if they were donated by the likes of me, if that would have made a difference?

And we never know when those meds will make a PROFOUND difference.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I also do not think that 1996 is a current model for ADAP or other programs. Many of which have been augmented and/or severely cut. Your mileage may vary.

But keepiing one's wits's about them, and exhausting all local and state abilities to assist (many of which are referenced here at AIDSMEDS.COM) is always the best first strike.

Do not begrudge nor undermine the underground, leatherman. It has saved mre than a few people. And though scant and sparse, it is real. And people helping other people means more, and makes a more profound difference, than a thousand online petitions.

I must ask. since you criticize my efforts, what are YOU doing? Signing a petition or two? asking those of us who are trying to help to justify our positions?

DO SOMETHING> And if you can't. then at LEAST stay out of the way.

I am donating unused meds. I am contributing to this site with my research and scientific technical ability. I am cooking for, and delivering meals to people with AIDS. I am not wringing my hands and asking for the next solution. I am trying to BE THAT solution.

I am aghast that my efforts are still being dismissed on this site.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

we are talking literally life or death for real people. Moving the system takes time. And for someone who has seen multiple lovers pass away thanks to slow moving legislation, I am appalled that you would even blink at such a thing as sending unused drugs to those whose lives could be saved.

You're really hung up on this issue of redistribution of unused meds, aren't you? I plainly said that I understand that desperate times call for desperate meaures. I too have passed along unused meds, for goodness sake.

I've given you my suggestions of how to change the system, and you provided another one of signing petitions. However, are you suggesting that we all just quit campaigning to fix the ADAP crisis, and go into the business of transporting and delivering illegal medications? Just think, if we can get the ADAP budgeting issues "fixed", you won't need to risk jail or fines. I don't understand why you're so opposed to trying to attack this crisis from BOTH directions.

However, the crimes activities you are suggesting are simply stop gap measures. As slow as the system is to be moved, it must be moved by legimate legal methods or this issue will remain the reoccuring problem that it is. Your suggestion of passing around unused meds will ensure lives today, I grant you; however changing the system to provide adequate funding will ensure lives for decades.

I also do not think that 1996 is a current model for ADAP or other programs.

um, my 1996 comment was an explanation of how I ended up in a hospital with PCP and AIDS, just like someone might find out today. Not everyone, gets tested early. Many people find out when they are dying in a hospital and need ADAP immediately.

since you criticize my efforts, what are YOU doing? Signing a petition or two? ....I am donating unused meds. I am contributing to this site with my research and scientific technical ability. I am cooking for, and delivering meals to people with AIDS. I am not wringing my hands and asking for the next solution.

I donate unused meds, deliver meals, work the ASO pantry, transport clients to medical appts, am part of the ASO's speaker bureau, and work the health fair booths.

obviously you need to do a bit more research since you didn't bother to look at my link about the SC ADAP rallies. why on may 1, the 2 yr annivesary of my 2nd partner's death, I passed out condoms, prevention and testing literature at the local health fair portion of the Fort Mill Strawberry festivel and then on may 25, the 16 yr anniversary of my first partner's death, I was at the ADAP funding cut rally in Columbia SC - and thanks to that effort the budget was not passed that cut out all funding.

Twenty yrs. ago I attended a rally in Cleveland OH to protest FOR the very HIV meds themselves.Twenty yrs. later I attended a rally in Columbia SC to protest for adequate ACCESS to those HIV meds.

since you criticize my efforts,....asking those of us who are trying to help to justify our positions?....I am aghast that my efforts are still being dismissed on this site.

you sir, are severely freaking out. I didn't ask you to justify anything. No am I in your way. I didn't dismiss your efforts either - although they are crimes. My only complaint is that your activities are just a stop gap measure. Full access to medical care and treatment is a more permanent solution.

No one was talking about your distribution of meds. The topic of this thread is about ADAP funding and you took off on your crazy tangent of unused meds and everybody being against you. I would suggest that since you don't want to talk about ADAP funding, and seem rather opposed to our discussion of attempting to try to "fix" it, that you start your own thread about redistributing meds.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

by the way, see my avatar over there? that's me on May 1, honoring Jim's memory working the Catawba Care Coalition HIV/AIDS booth passing out condoms With a little luck, I helped keep some people from getting infected that day, so they'll never need ADAP or HIV meds

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

No, you simply dismiss redistribution of meds as a crime. You simply assume that the broken ADAP system can be fixed by the amazingly inappropriate and inaccurate means of an internet petition.

You amaze me.

I do not sign internet petitions, because they mean NOTHING.

I CALL my senators, and my representatives. I SHOW UP at meetings and at legislative sessions. And Yes, I have been arrested at same.

ADAP is a life-saving force. It is NOT.... and SHOULD NOT be the ONLY force for getting meds to those who need them.

Teabaggers and conservatives are not the only ones who stand between people with AIDS and the meds used to save them. I submit it is people like yourself, who consider me a criminal and think my efforts below your scope of contempt, to be the real enemy.

I cannot believe that someone who has lost several people whose lives could have been saved by meds to consider any option to give those meds to the needy to be off the menu.

I have never been to thoroughly appalled as I am to see the "OLD GUARD" of HIv activism calling efforts to save people "illegal" and acting accordingly. You and your ilk are part of the reason Lisa's heart was thrashed and broken in these forums. Thanks to you, many people went without meds. Thanks to you, Lisa died broken-hearted and with zero assets.

I hope you and your by-the-book ideology are happy. I respectfully withdraw from this discussion. And My unused meds will be redistributed in my own community, without AIDSMEDS. Because I will be God-Damned before I let your horrific ideology dictate who lives and who dies.

Fuck you, sir. Fuck you and your sad, sad, past from which you have learnt nothing about the sanctity of human life.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Fuck you, sir. Fuck you and your sad, sad, past from which you have learnt nothing about the sanctity of human life.

Jonathan, come on. Whether you want to admit it or not, you and Mike are on the same side. You might approach life in different ways, but you both want the best for people living with hiv. If you cannot express your differences without resorting to profanity, then please do not comment at all. Yes, this is a warning.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

The only part of medication re-distribution that is illegal is for the one that those drugs were prescribed to pass them on to someone else. This is the law. Loads of reslearch has been done to see just who is breaking the law in re-distributing medications and for sure, it is only the person to whom those medications were prescribed. So Mr. special leatherman, you are breaking the law, just like the rest of us. Turn yourself in today or maybe someone will find the courage to do it for you.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

dude, not you too. but after your last whack-a-doo PM, I'm not surprised, I guess. Sad; but not surprised.

I never said I was against illegally passing meds. Read what I wrote, not what crazy JK2 was spouting off. However the topic was NOT about redistributing drugs. This freaking thread was about ADAP. If ADAP can be fixed no one should have to illegally pass off meds. and no, just for the record, I try not to encourage people to break the law. I have been trying to encourage people in this thread to help fix the law and the budgets.

just because you thought I was wrong to ask a newbie who is threatening to hasten her own death for a little more info (information besides what you had not researched yourself by reading her blog, just like jk2 hadn't done by reading the ADAP rally think) before I cavalierly told her to go take a dirt nap, like others were doing, doesn't make me some hateful monster, so get a grip Moffie, you're losing it. You're sounding almost as crazy as jkinat12.

No, you simply dismiss redistribution of meds as a crime. You simply assume that the broken ADAP system can be fixed by the amazingly inappropriate and inaccurate means of an internet petition.

You amaze me.

I do not sign internet petitions, because they mean NOTHING.

you freaking amaze me dood! LOL

YOU, yes you, are the one that keeps taking about signing internet petitions. AND once again, I never "dimissed" you scheme of passing around meds. I admitted I do it myself, or are you too stupid to read what I wrote? Moffie read that part at least. LOL Obviously you're not reading anything I'm typing since you equate my standing in the hot SC sun hollering slogan, marching with placards, and sitting in the senate gallery with a group of others wearing red shirts and ribbons, actually getting the legislature to NOT defund SC ADAP with the idea of signing internet petitions. Signing petitions was YOUR comment in this thread.

I submit it is people like yourself, who consider me a criminal and think my efforts below your scope of contempt, to be the real enemy.

I cannot believe that someone who has lost several people whose lives could have been saved by meds to consider any option to give those meds to the needy to be off the menu.

You and your ilk are part of the reason Lisa's heart was thrashed and broken in these forums. Thanks to you, many people went without meds. Thanks to you, Lisa died broken-hearted and with zero assets.

I hope you and your by-the-book ideology are happy. I respectfully withdraw from this discussion. And My unused meds will be redistributed in my own community, without AIDSMEDS. Because I will be God-Damned before I let your horrific ideology dictate who lives and who dies.

dude! you really need to go to a doctor and see about getting some psych meds. What the fuck are you talking about? Did you read what I wrote? Why is redistributing meds the ONLY option you will condon? Of course, you're a criminal passing meds around, and so am I. (I also speed and smoke pot when I can get it, so how's that for a big ol' confession? LOL) I NEVER said anything about feeling contempt for you and your actions, that's the crazy voices in your head.

I don't know Lisa but I know plenty of other who died from AIDS, so you can keep your unresolved guilt about her to yourself, and I'll keep my guilt about why we never got my partner retested over all those years and let him die to myself.

So because you don't want to talk about ADAP but want to interrupt this thread with bragging about your illegal activities, you're not going to share with aidsmeds? So you're going to let you crazy ideology dictate who lives and dies? Unbelievable. Are you reading what I wrote? Are you reading what you're typing?!?

Definitely go make that psyche appointment today. you need it and the drugs bad.

Fuck you, sir. Fuck you and your sad, sad, past from which you have learnt nothing about the sanctity of human life.

hmmm. you are one crazy motherfucker tonight aren't you? Is it drugs? Booze? or have you just gone round the bend?

Guess it's about time for another ADAP thread to be locked because people don't want to talk about ADAP. Last time people just wanted to talk about Thailand and this time it's about committing crimes. No one seems to want to talk about fixing the problem.

Wow!! All I really wanted to do was encourage people to take a more proactive stand towards trying to get ADAP fixed, so people don't die without meds.

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I look it like this, as in the famous quote from Rev. Martin Niemoller in World War II:

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for me,and by that time no one was left to speak up."

A related thought about this crisis that keeps disturbing me (and it has been raised before): So many are doing so much to encourage everyone to get tested for HIV. However, if you end up testing positive and cannot afford anti-retrovirals without the assistance of programs like ADAP, and you're put on a waiting list with hundreds of names ahead of you....

What then? Psychologically--let alone medically--are you better off knowing, even though you can't do anything to fight the virus? Does this situation contribute to encourage many to test?

I love your quote!On the other hand, I don't thing anyone is better off not knowing. Sure it would be a awful to be on a waiting list BUT at least the person would be aware that there is life-threatening situation in his her life and get working on active solutions.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Isnt everyone in this thread so far more or less on board with giving extra drugs to those in need? I don't understand the antagonism.Isn't it important to work at the political and social level, in public, as well as just individually and private?

Who on earth try to prosecute an individual giving away some unused drugs. I guess the problem would be someone who made a job of centralising the exchange? I dunno.

Seems to be a topic for its own thread.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 03:17:41 PM by mecch »

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

I don't know which I find more depressing. The fact that the US can't find a measly $126 million for ADAP funding, or that we have tireless warriors, in the AIDS war, tearing into each other. I should not have to remind you, that we are not the enemy here. The history of AIDS funding, has taught us, that every option needs to be explored and doing something, anything, is always better than doing nothing. We are all on the same side here and any actions, taken by anyone, in service to the HIV community, are worthy of recognition and gratitude.

To me, it remains heartbreaking, when for a hundred million dollars, so many lives could be saved. Yet we think nothing of spending TRILLIONS on making war.

What is really sad Ed, is that this is not a new story, but a repeat of what we have had to go through every year since ADAP was created.

That's why it's critical that we get people Health Insurance because it puts the power in the hands of the patient. As an insured patient you can change providers if you don't like the way you are treated. It's going to change the way ASO's do business. Yes, yes, they all claim to care and provide the best services... but repeatedly I hear from friends who can't get an appointment for 10 days when they have a cold. Heck, by that time they'll be very sick or over it.

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Don't obsess over the wrong things. Life isn't about your numbers, it isn't about this forum, it isn't about someone's opinion. It's about getting out there and enjoying it. I am a person with HIV - not the other way around.

What does the new health care bill do in respect to this??? Doesn't it has something to do?

someone else will have to speak to the changes the reform will make (although I believe it should allow people to buy into insurance which can cover their prescription costs); but the federal ADAP program was just renewed in Oct for another four years, so some form of ADAP will be around for a while yet (perhaps it will cover the insurance premiums rather than purchasing the meds in the future).

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leatherman (aka mIkIE)

All the stars are flashing high above the seaand the party is on fire around you and meWe're gonna burn this disco down before the morning comes- Pet Shop Boys chart from 1992-2015Isentress/Prezcobix