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Guest: Michel Listner. Topics: Drones, air traffic control, NASA, SpaceX, patents, reusability, property, space law & more. Please direct all comments and questions regarding Space Show programs/guest(s) to the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments and questions should be relevant to the specific Space Show program. Written Transcripts of Space Show programs are a violation of our copyright and are not permitted without prior written consent, even if for your own use. We do not permit the commercial use of Space Show programs or any part thereof, nor do we permit editing, YouTube clips, or clips placed on other private channels & websites. Space Show programs can be quoted, but the quote must be cited or referenced using the proper citation format. Contact The Space Show for further information. In addition, please remember that your Amazon purchases can help support The Space Show/OGLF. See http://www.onegiantleapfoundation.org/amazon.htm. For those listening to archives using live365.com and rating the programs, please email me as to why you assign a specific rating to the show. This will help me bring better programming to the audience.

We welcomed Michael Listner back to the show for a wide ranging discussion on space law issues. During the first segment of our 95 minute show, Michael started by addressing the NASA program to develop an air traffic control system for drones. We spent the first part of this segment talking about the system, what it might be like, the partners working with NASA on the plan, the role of the FAA, and related items. Part of this discussion focused on the need for regulations as Michael said without some regulations there is chaos. The trick is to balance the regulations to maintain safety and order but also to enable commercial growth. In this segment, we talked about the Dream Chaser challenge to the decision by NASA re commercial crew with the awards going to Boeing and SpaceX. To help us understand the appeals process, Michael cited the recent KC-X tanker deal which Boeing appealed and ultimately won the contract. Michael then updated us with as much info as is known re the SpaceX-AF litigation over the bulk buy, then we talked about the patent dispute with Blue Origin and SpaceX regarding a reusable system meant to land on a barge.

In the second segment, the issues of space property rights & the Asteroids Act came up. Michael had some interesting observations that he shared with us. Let us know on the blog what you think about property rights & the Asteroids Act. A listener asked Michael about the prevailing law should a criminal act be carried out on a spaceship. Michael explained what would happen if such an event happened in space. Our guest was asked if he thought the midterm election would make a difference in space policy, Listeners & I then asked Michael what to look for regarding the balance of this year and into 2015 concerning space legal issues. Note what Michael pointed out to us. His concluding comments addressed the need for proper space law to facilitate commercial space growth & exploration.

Please post your comments/questions on TSS blog. You can reach Michael through me.

Guest: Stewart Money. Topics: We discussed EELV issues, the Air Force desire for a bulk buy of EELV services, Space X and more. You are invited to comment, ask questions, and discuss the Space Show program/guest(s) on the Space Show blog, https://thespaceshow.wordpress.com. Comments, questions, and any discussion must be relevant and applicable to Space Show programming. Transcripts of Space Show programs are not permitted without prior written consent from The Space Show (even if for personal use) & are a violation of the Space Show copyright. We welcomed Stewart Money to the program to discuss his recent Space Review articles. The primary article he wrote which was the subject for today can be found at www.thespacereview.com/article/1990/. Stewart has Part 2 to this article coming up on The Space Review so be sure to look for it and read it when it is available. During our first segment, Stewart talked about ULA and the proposed bulk buy of ULA rockets for the Air Force and the rising prices for EELV launches. This block buy has been raised into question by many including the GAO study with the thought that it should be expanded to allow for additional purchases from competing companies such as Space X or Orbital. Google ULA Air Force bulk buy” for a list of news articles about this story. Stewart received many questions about this because Falcon 9 is not yet operational and Falcon Heavy has not been built. Stewart talked about this in the context of Air Force requirements for availability, reliability, and the launch cost. Our guest felt that since there was a gap of several years in the Air Force program, there should be time for Falcon 9 to prove itself without much of a downside to the Air Force or ULA if they needed to add in more EELV purchases due to any Space X problems that may arise. Part of our discussion centered on risk but as you will hear, Stewart was mostly focused on launch cost and believes that Space X will be a driving force to lower the cost of access to space. Near the end of this segment, the stored Triana Satellite came up (It is now named the Deep Space Climate Observatory or DISCOVR) and how the Air Force might launch it on the Falcon 9. During this segment, Stewart also referred to the Aerospace Corporation 3/7 Reliability Rule which says that if a failure occurs during the first three launches, the problem is probably a design issue. If failure occurs after the third successful launch but before the seventh, a production process issue is probable. Once a launch vehicle configuration launches successfully three times, its design has demonstrated maturity. If successfully launched seven times, the design & production process maturity are likely demonstrated. Check out this document for more detailed information on the 3/7 Reliability Rule: “Space Acquisitions: Uncertainties in the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle Program Pose Management and Oversight Challenges” by the GAO at www.gao.gov/new.items/d081039.pdf.

In the second segment, we talked about the recent congressional testimony on the FY 13 budget with Congress and Administrator Bolden plus the testimony of Neil deGrasse Tyson. Stewart boiled the problems down to the cost of space access and remained with the theme of solving that problem for the balance of our discussion. We then talked more about testing, high priority payloads and normal payloads, how many flights would be needed for the Falcon 9 to fly a high priority payload and more. We also talked about the difference in theory with a yet to be proven, operational launch vehicle being considered real as compared to an actual operating and flying vehicle as many confuse the two, counting the first one as real with real pricing when it is not even operational.

Please post your comments/questions on The Space Show blog URL above. If you would like to email Mr. Money, you can use the address at the end of his Space Review articles.