Hearing transcript

Page Tools

The following partial transcript of the hearing for Saddam Hussein,
transcribed by eMediaMillWorks Inc, was taken from audio that was edited by the
US military.

The audio did not reflect everything Saddam Hussein said during his
arraignment, such as Saddam's remark: "This is all a theatre by Bush, the
criminal."

A question mark after a name indicates that it was not completely clear who
was speaking:

Saddam: Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq. Saddam Hussein
Majid, the president of the Republic of Iraq.

Judge: (OFF-MIKE)

(Unknown): 1937.

(Unknown): Profession? Former president of the Republic of Iraq.

Saddam: No, present. Current. It's the will of the people.

Judge: The head of the Baath Party that is dissolved, defunct. Former
commander in chief of the army.

AdvertisementAdvertisement

(Unknown): Residence is Iraq.

Judge: Your mother's name?

Saddam: Sobha.

Translator: He stated the following. (After positively identifying the
defendant): He was present before us.

Saddam : May I have a clarification?

Judge: Go ahead, please.

Saddam: You also have to introduce yourself to me.

Judge: Mr Saddam, I am the investigative Judge of the central court of Iraq.

Saddam: So that I have to know, you are an investigative Judge of the central
court of Iraq? What resolution, what law formed this court?

Judge: (OFF-MIKE)

Saddam: Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi that - you are
representing the occupying forces?

Judge: No, I'm an Iraqi representing Iraq.

Saddam: But you are ...

Judge: I was appointed by a presidential decree under the former regime.

Saddam: So you are reiterating that every Iraqi should respect the Iraqi law.
So the law that was instituted before represents the will of the people, right?

Judge (?): Yes, God willing.

Saddam: So you should not work under the jurisdiction of the coalition
forces.

Judge: This is an important point. I am a Judge. In the former regime, I
respect the Judges. And I am resuming and continuing my work. You, as any other
citizen, you have to answer to any accusation or charge.

(Unknown): That's true.

Judge: This is an arraignment, a charge. If it can be proven, then you will
be convicted. If not, then everything is fine. The judicial due process is to
bring back rights. If there's evidence, you'll be convicted. If there's no
evidence, you will not. Until now, you're accused before the judicial system. So
according to that ...

Saddam: So, please let me - I'm not complicating matters. Are you a Judge?
You are a Judge. And Judges, they value the law. And they rule
by law, right? Right? Right is a relative issue. For us, right is our
heritage in the Koran, sharia, right? I am not talking about Saddam Hussein,
whether he was a citizen or in other capacities. I'm not holding fast to my
position, but to respect the will of the people that decided to choose Saddam
Hussein as the leader of the revolution.

Therefore, when I say president of the Republic of Iraq, it's not a formality
or holding fast to a position, but rather to reiterate to the Iraqi people that
I respect its will. This is one. Number two, you summoned me to levy charges.

(Unknown): No, I ...

Saddam: You call it crimes.

Judge: If there is evidence, then I'll defer it to a court of jurisdiction.

Saddam: Let me understand something. Who is the defendant? Any defendant when
he comes to a court, before that there should be investigation. This is not a
court. This is investigation. This is investigation now.

Let me clarify this point. Then I hope that you remember you are a Judge
empowered by the people. It doesn't really matter whether you convict me or not;
that's not what's important. But what's important is that you remember that
you're a Judge. Then don't mention anything, occupying forces. This is not good.

Then I Judge - in the name of people. Then that's good. Then Judge in the
name of people. This is the Iraqi way.

Saddam: From the legal standpoint, you were notified that I have lawyers,
right? Am I not supposed to meet with the lawyers before I come before you?

Judge: If you give me just 10 minutes, let's finish the formalities and I'll
come to that. Then if you wait, then you will see that you have rights that are
guaranteed.

Saddam: Okay. Go ahead.

Judge: According to the law, Mr Saddam, the investigative Judge has to give
the defendant - give him the charges that are levied against him. And then
reading the rights of all the charges according to the law, Article 123, 124 and
125. The first step is, are these articles, were they not signed by Saddam
Hussein?

Saddam: Yes, this is the law that was in '73. So then Saddam Hussein was
representing the leadership and signed that law. So now you are using the law
that Saddam signed against Saddam. Saddam was the people.

Please, the constitutional mechanism - I'm not a lawyer but I understand - I
am originally a man of law. Is it allowed to call a president elected by the
people and charge him according to a law that was enacted under his will and the
will of the people? There is some contradiction.

Second, the president is a profession, is a position, is a deputy of the
society. That's true. And originally, inherently, he's a citizen. And every
citizen, according to the law and the constitution, if this person violates a
law, has to come before the law. And that law you know more than I do. The
crimes that are charges.

Intended killing by using chemical weapons in Halabjah. Second, intended
killing to a great number of Iraqis in 1983. Three, intended killing to a number
of members of the political parties without trials. Fourth, intended killing to
many Iraqi religious people. Fifth, intended killing to
many Iraqis in Anfal (ph) without any evidence against them. You have the
right to defend and answer. These are the guarantees.

Now we come to an important matter. You have heard the court read the crimes
that you're charged - or were attributed to the accused, Saddam Hussein. And you
were told what the articles of the law that apply to those cases. And the court
has read to you the rights and the guarantees that any accused is entitled to,
which includes the rights of defence and representation, and also the right not
to answer any question asked, and that will never be
used as evidence against you, against the accused. And the court also presented
to the accused the right to argue the evidence.

The accused requested to meet with the defence lawyers, his private defence
lawyers to be present with him in the investigative sessions. And in light of
that, the minutes were concluded and the investigation is deferred, postponed
until the accused is enabled to contact his representation, his lawyers, and
another appointment for the next session will be decided.

The charges that were levied against Saddam Hussein - you should sign so that
I can talk to ...

Saddam (?): Okay. Let me sign.

But you levied charges in my capacity as the president of the republic. The
talk about Halabjah, I used to hear about that in the radio, attacking Halabjah
under the regime of Saddam Hussein.

Judge: This is only the legal matters, and you have the right to not answer
until a lawyer is present.

Saddam: This is for the previous review. If you want to review - repeat it in
the presence of the lawyers and I don't sign, then yes. But if you want me to
sign and then the lawyers come, then no. You have to hear me out.

And the occupation of Kuwait, the charge number seven, unfortunately. It's
unfortunately that this is coming out of an Iraqi. The law is there, law to
charge Saddam Hussein because Kuwaitis said that the Iraqi women will come to
the street for 10 dinars. And I defended the honour of the Iraqis. Those
animals.

Judge: Don't use foul language and attack. This is a legal session.

Saddam: Yes, I bear responsibilities for everything.

Judge: Anything outside of obscenity or outside of the norms of a legal
session is not accepted.

Saddam: Then forgive me.

Judge (?): Allow me. The seventh charge was against Saddam Hussein as
president of the republic and the commander in chief of the army. And the army
went to Kuwait.

Saddam: Okay. Then in the former capacity, then is it permissible to charge
an official title and the person is to be dealt with in violation of the
guarantees that are afforded by the constitution. This is the law that you're
using to use against me now.

This is the crux of the matter, Mr Judge. Charges are levied because actions
were taken in a system whose president was Saddam Hussein, but without
guarantees, presidential guarantees. This is from the legal standpoint.

Judge (?): Well, answer to those charges. This is investigation. Answer. You
tell us formally.

Judge: This is only for the minutes. If you read the minutes, we say that we
postponed the investigation.

Saddam: Then please allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present.

Judge: That is fine.

Saddam: I speak for myself.

Judge: Yes, as a citizen you have the right. But the guarantees you have to
sign because these were read to you, recited to you.

Saddam: (OFF-MIKE)

Judge: No, no. This is part of the process.

Saddam: No, this is not part of the process.

Judge: No, this is part of the process.

Saddam: Anyway, why are you worried? I will come again before you with the
presence of the lawyers, and you will be giving me all of these documents again.
So why should we rush any action now and make mistakes because of rushed and
hasty decisions or actions?

Judge: No, this is not a hasty decision-making now. I'm just investigating.
And we need to conclude and seal the minutes.