from the surfing-the-wave-doesn't-mean-you-created-it dept

Sony has been facing plenty of problems (er... challenges) lately, from exploding batteries to rootkits to PS3 launch troubles, and it's even resulted in them claiming awards they didn't win. However, it appears that Sony CEO Howard Stringer has gone even further. Another Mike submitted a recent interview with Stringer where he talks about how the PS3 will drive the adoption of Blu-Ray, and then proceeds to do a little rewriting of history: "The people who like Blu-ray are the people who play PlayStation 3, just as people who play PS2s were the early proponents of the DVD format. It drove the DVD format." That seems to be a rather convenient rewriting of history. It is true that the PS2 included a DVD player, which helped in selling the PS2, but it hardly drove the format. Surfing a big wave that already is going strong hardly means you created that wave. As for the Blu-Ray, there are big differences this time around. Unlike the DVD which was already a big and growing success at the time the PS2 launched, Blu-Ray is still very early, and many people don't see the reason to upgrade. Furthermore, the addition of the Blu-Ray drive to the PS3 is a big part of why the company has had trouble selling the console. It drove up the cost significantly, forcing Sony to price the PS3 well above the competition (even while taking a loss on each device). So, even if the history did support Stringer's view, the same factors aren't in play this time around.

Re: John

Not really. It helped a lot of gamers get a DVD player(Myself included), but DVDs were already the rage of the home theatre crowd by the time PS2 came out, and were even popping up in non-technophile houses before the PS2 became affordable. I waited a year before buying my PS2, and it was still cheaper than a comparable stand-alone DVD player, but tons and tons of people who didn't want a PS2 just waited an extra year before buying a DVD player.. the PS2 only drove it among gamers, who weren't as big of a market as you seem to think.

Hi-Definition is the reason to upgrade. Be it HDDVD or BD, there will be an upgrade. BD holds more data, and is not becoming similarly priced. There are no advantages to HDDVD besides being shrinkingly less expensive than the BD. You will want Hi Definition in a video player, it is the next step, there is no reason in 1 year from now that BD wouldn't be your choice.

At this point HDDVD is a little bit less expensive (450 dollar HDDVD Player or 499 dollar ps3?) The discs are the same, on many dvd discount sites, HDDVD and BD are BOTH 19-23 bucks.

I digress. People will need an upgrade, the difference between a standard dvd (720x480) and a hi def disc (1920x1080) is more than a small step.

People complained that they would never get rid of their VHS tapes when DVD was becoming big, now those very people have 1000 DVD collections.

PS3 WILL push the installed base of BD players astronomically higher than what HDDVD will be in 1 years time (estimate on when the avg consumer will start to purchase a hi def unit).

Re:

What are you smoking? Bluray sucks. Yeah it has higher storage, but when a 1080p HD movie fits into 7-15GB it really doesnt matter. Bluray disks load slower and damage easier. The burners will be much more expensive. The list goes on. HDDVD movies are selling 8 to 1 vs bluray movies. Check your facts before you bleat like a sheep and eat the crap sony's feeding you.

Re:

What are you smoking? Bluray sucks. Yeah it has higher storage, but when a 1080p HD movie fits into 7-15GB it really doesnt matter. Bluray disks load slower and damage easier. The burners will be much more expensive. The list goes on. HDDVD movies are selling 8 to 1 vs bluray movies. Check your facts before you bleat like a sheep and eat the crap sony's feeding you.

Re:

TheXbox HDDVD playeris only 199, plus the already 399, makes it a game+ HDDVDplayer that cost as much as the overpriced PS3 so unless your buying a PS3for BD only, then you probally going to get the 599 one anyhow. Oh and did sony mention price cuts within a year from now, especially after there horrible sales for launch. but wait isnt that other console already a year into production with great sales doesnt that call for a first price cut, kinda like the Xbox and PS2 price cuts two years after launch, and then that would make the xbox and HDDVD less than the PS3 without a HDD (depending on the price cut) so in turn the move to HD TV and HD discs, isnt going to be so soon, mself in a house with income rangingfrom 80k to 100k still have a 37" CRT tv thats 10 yrs old, guess what unless it dies and theres a $200 40+" HD TV i aint upgrading even then. I'll stick to CRT's

On the other hand, i have computers, lots of them, and i play computer games, i have no interest in console gaming (my gamecube 3DO and Xbox will do fine thank you) and my PC games and graphics will be better on my flatscreen CRTs anyhow. So for me the upgrade might be a big step, but i dont need to leap, when i can walk just fine.

Re:

Wow, Nick. That was a nice little speech you gave about HD-DVD vs. BD, but entirely off-topic. On-topic, I would like to comment that Sony has no right to claim that the PS2 propelled DVD into popularity - what an absolutely ludicrous claim, but totally Sony. What an overrated company. I heard a friend make the claim the other day, "Well, it says Sony on it, so it has to be good." Someone please tell me how any company could achieve such a god-like prestige simply by making a whole lot of "pretty" crap! {Oh yeah, forgot about Microsoft}

Yes. the reason most people (especially in Japan) bought the PS2 is for its DVD player. I have no doubts that this drove the format. but at that point there were no other new formats out to compete with. and the difference between DVD and VHS is a lot greater than that of DVD and Blu-Ray

Re:

The differences between high-definition (HD-DVD/Blu-Ray) and regular DVD are extremely dramatic. You can't tell the difference until you have a TV capable of displaying HD content. The source is overwhelming better with HD content than with regular standard definition DVD's.

You obviously have Z-E-R-O understanding. Why do you bother to post on a topic when it just makes you sound like an ignorant jackass?

I think you are wrong

First, Sony did win an Emmy, they just didn't realize that it was for technology that came out many years ago. Sort of makes sense to assume that an award given this year would be for this year's controller, but whatever, on to my other point: I don't remember the DVD's being a very strong format when the PS2 came out. People were saying the same things about DVD that they are currently saying about Blu Ray. "Why would I want to trade in my precious VHS collection for some overpriced player with only a marginal improvement?" When you factored in the functionality of playing games, it made the new format seem more reasonable to many people. There are more people than Sony saying this. They sold over 100 million PS2's. If that's not driving the format, I don't know what is. Sure it was going to succeed eventually because it had no competitors, but the PS2 definitely helped. Maybe the verb "drove" is a little too strong, but they're certainly not rewriting history. Sony's having trouble selling the console? Why can't I buy one from Amazon.com? They don't seem to have any in stock. They probably just aren't restocking because it is selling so poorly. Ha. Who is rewriting history now?

SONY changed a while back...

The SONY name hasn't been associated with really high quality products since about a year after the Walkman was introduced. Their products have been going downhill ever since. Though they may need all the help they can get, claims like actually driving the DVD format don't make them look particularly honest. It's like they switched from the traditional Japanese approach of using honour in business to the American tradition of using deception in business.

format

By the way, I still use BETA for recording, just like TV stations (Betacam). Except I have Beta Hi-Fi. It's GREAT!!! And Reel-to-Reel is still the easiest and cheapest way to record quality audio at home (it doesn't require a mega-dollar computer PLUS expensive software to get decent sound). Sony represented serious high quality when machines using these formats were produced.

Nice "Journalism" Fool

Do you have any hard facts? DVD was successful before PS2? I don't remember that. Last week I read an article which said that once the PS3 was launched, Blu Ray overtook HD-DVD. But I'm sure it's not driving the format. Sure, it's more expensive, but isn't the fact that the PS3 is taking a loss a good thing for consumers? Like they crammed so much technology into it for such a low price that they are losing money? EVIL SONY!!! They should be taking a profit like those lovely people over nintendo make on the Wii. For people who want Blu Ray, this is the most bang for the buck possible. They have sold over 110 million PS2's. How many would you require them to sell before they can claim to have driven the success of the format?

Sony Now Re-Writing History: Claims PS2 Drove Succ

The reason he is saying it drove the DVD format is because not only did they sell 100 million consoles but most of the games that were being sold to the 100 million consumers who bought them were buying video games that were being written on DVD media. I don't just buy a console and rent the games, my collection is anywhere between 20-50 games on every console I buy. 20-50 X 100,000,000. You do the math.

I think that the eradication of eaten tapes, removal of rewinding, and the trashing of tracking were the main reasons that the DVD format succeeded. Not to mention the ease of getting to a particular scene in the movie. As for quality, there is really no difference as far as I can tell between DVD and VHS. Maybe that is because I don't buy new movies, I don't know. As for games, what's a PS2? What's a PS3? I still play 20 year old games on my Apple IIe. It's great...zero load times, and zero problems.

You are so stupid

The PS2 was the fastest sellilng console when it was launched. The PS3 sold faster. Please explain your statement that Sony is having trouble selling it, and maybe point the way to some place online that I can purchase one for the retail price. Thanks.

Re: You are so stupid

Right on Howard. It would have been accurate to say they have had trouble meeting demand, but not selling them. The production problems have been well documented, but they should pass the Nintendo Wii in the coming month and continue to drive their BR format for HD.

Porn the deciding factor?

sony

When are all you sony Fanboys going to realize that sony doesn't give a rat's ass about you or any of the other consumers out here. The only way to send them a message that this kind of blatant disregard for consumers rights is either to sue the shit out of them.... or never buy anything sony again. FUCK SONY.

Hmm. . .

According to my calculations, the amount of porn on the internet has reached a critical mass and it should no longer be necessary for anyone to produce or buy porn for many years. The pornography supply should only need to be replenished every 100 years so there is no chance of anyone jerking it to a picture of his great-great-grandmother.

wow...

and the fanboys run rampant... i'd contribute the success of dvds more to the quality and affordable price than a video game console. i was jerking it over the idea of dvds long before the ps2 was a thought in anyone's mind. once the price of players dropped, it was inevitable that people were going to buy dvd players.

My Worthless Opinion

Sony is a multibillion dollar corporation that comes out with incredible technology. They can do whatever they want. If they want to rewrite history, let them do it. History gets rewritten all the time.

"The PS2 was the fastest selling console when it was launched. The PS3 sold faster."

But the Wii and Xbox 360 are selling heck of a lot faster than the PS3. (off topic, but, you know :P )

"either to sue the shit out of them"

People like you are the ones who clog up the judicial system.

"The Adult Film Industry has picked HD-DVD format. It's over for Blue Ray. Sorry, but the truth sucks some times."

You do make a good point, but don't forget Blu-ray has supporters like Apple, Dell, Hitachi, Fox, Disney, and of course Sony (plus many others).

2 options

I have never sued anyone and probably never will. Since money is the only thing that matters to anyone but foreign radicals with bombs strapped to their chests, YOU have to hit them where it will get their attention. What else should I do? walk up and punch sony's ceo in the face? I choose not to buy anything sony, even if I am temped by some of the cool shit that they make.

in all honesty, i do believe that while, yes, dvds would have still grown strong on their own, the ps2 did help speed up the process. just because you had a dvd player before the ps2 doesn't mean that the dvd was already a success. even at the time the ps2 came out, the dvd wasn't a huge success yet. it's only relatively recently that dvds have pretty much replaced vhs.

and about the whole porn thing, porn helped vhs win over betamax, but that was before the internet. the internet has caused the demand for porn on disc to go down. and the demand for movies on disc has gone way up. i don't think porn is going to be as influential as it was in the last format war.

Hey Physics Guy. . .

I think you mean attribute, not contribute. I think that fanboys can be expected when an "article" like this is published on the internet. Apparently it is news that Sony "claims" that the PS2 drove the success of the DVD format. They sold 100 million of them. They all play DVD's. Sounds like a pretty accurate claim to me. I guess you could argue that it would have succeeded anyway, but it would be hard to argue that it would have been as successful if those 100 million game consoles used a different storage medium. Just remember that for every Sony fanboy, there is an equally annoying and nonsensical anti-Sony fanboy. It is required for balance in the Universe.

Uhm, PS3s are selling for crap

If you read any gaming blogs, you'd know that the PS3 really isn't selling that well. Out of 100 stores, half of them had available PS3s, and zero had any Wiis in stock. My local Best Buys, EB, and Gamestop all have PS3s in stock... and I live in a large college town (Madison, WI) where financial aid checks were just distributed.

Yeah, the PS3 might be leading the way for BD, but even with a high def tv AND being a passionate gamer AND being an early adopter, I have zero desire to purchase a PS3... and it's mostly because of the damn stupid BD drive. I thought it was a stupid idea when I first heard it, and I chuckle with glee every time I see a big pile of PS3s sitting on a shelf somewhere.

Sony is doomed

Sony just screwing up too much. The battery issue, that's gotta cost a pretty penny. The rootkit lawsuits are far from over, wait until Europe does their court cases. Canada's isn't settled either yet. And the PS3, costing Sony money on each system, and yet, still not selling. Wii is selling out and PS3's can't even sell, they are sitting on store shelves.

Sony is screwed. 2007 is just going to get worse for them.

Also, with both Microsoft and the Adult industry backing HD-DVD, along with three major studies and the tech industry, Blu-Ray will end up losing.

HDDVD

Dvd was the next logical step. Sorry, but with or without ps2, DVD would be what it is. As has been mentioned, Adult entertainment industry is using HD-DVD, and the cheapest standalone BlueRay player is 800$, and only 200$ for HD-DVD. Plus HD-DVD has massive amounts of storage, I believe it was toshiba that was boasting that they just got it to hold up to 50g. Realistically, You don't need more then MAYBE 20. I doubt anyone makes more use then 12 gigs anytime soon on any format. (And don't quote ps3 games, most of them just have lots of null data and info to drive all 6 gaming processors, not actual gameplay)

Hey Tack

You're the one who must be smoking something if you think a 1080P HD Movie fits on a 7GB disc. 7GB gets you about 80 minutes of HD movie and an audio track if you're lucky. The reason why Sony has begun releasing 50GB, dual layer media is because their movies wouldn't fit on a 25GB disc. Blu-Ray discs are far more durable than other formats. Panasonic just invented one that will last 100 years. Last month Blu-Ray overtook HD-DVD in sales due to the fact that there are currently 2,000,000 PS3's that were sold in the last 2 months. So maybe you should check your facts before telling other people to check their facts.

Re: Hey Tack

last time i checked (a few mins ago) the ps3 had sold someplace in the 1.1-1.5mil units. www.nextgenwars.com is one i check often. and to the guy asking where he might buy one for retail, try ebay. shop right and you get it for LESS THAN RETAIL. hey sony, your product is very limited in supply and the demand is even lower. does that tell you anything about it?

Kyros

Last time I checked PS3 cost 500 bucks and the cheapest HD-DVD player was between 400 and 500 dollars. Sony is already using discs that have more than 25GB of info on them. HD-DVD wouldn't have bothered to make that 51GB disc if no one was ever going to use it. I don't know what you're calling "null data," but apparently because you don't care about anything that isn't used for gameplay, no one else will either. Basically everything you said was completely wrong.

The Anti-Sony fanboys are more annoying and less-informed than the general replies here. They're not even using FACTS anymore. At least exploding batteries and drm was a... "truthful" argument - but HD-DVDs outselling Blu-ray and the 360 outselling... hell, ANYTHING.. Those are just flat-out lies. I'm surprised, I'm really surprised. You can do better, techdirt audience.

I'm in agreement with Bozz. This post and half of these comments are garbage.

PS2 not only wrote their games with a DVD format but they could play them with the default system setup. The only system that did that, or made strides to. It's not a stretch to say without the PS2 DVD's wouldn't have gotten as far as they have today. Think about it, when the PS2 was released how many DVD players on the market were below $100? I'm willing to bet close to none. And therefore yes, the PS2 did drive forward the development of DVDs. Don't twist the words, that's all they said and that's all that's true.

The first DVD Player was launched in 1996 FOUR YEARS before the PS2 was.

FOUR YEARS.

And that makes PS2 owners "early proponents of the DVD format"? Um... No.

By the time the PS2 launched there was already 15 MILLION DVD players in the United States.

The period of 2000 to 2001, when the PS2 was launched, didn't see a larger growth in DVD market penetration than any of the previous years or the next year. There is no huge spike in the household penetration, it just grew at the same steady growth that it had been and continued to do. Therefore release of the PS2 had no significant increase in the household penetration of DVD players. This is probably because by the time the PS2 was released, 4 years after the debut of DVD players and given the nature of PS2 buyers, most (most, not every) PS2-buying household already had a DVD player. Or these households were already set to buy a DVD player whether they PS2 came out or not, one of the many millions of households that bought DVD players in 2001.

In 2000, when the PS2 was only on the market for a couple months, DVD sales almost surpassed VHS sales. Yes, that's right, DVDs were already so big before the PS2 even launched, that they were already set to pass VHS sales. And by the end of 2001, just 1 year after the PS2 launch when its' penetration was still quite low, DVD sales had already surpassed VHS sales.

You cannot even remotely claim that that situation is the same as the PS3/Blu-Ray situtation where, for all intents and purposes, the PS3 IS the first Blu-Ray player and there was virtually no market penetration AT ALL of the format prior to the PS3 launch.

And let's talk numbers on the whole Pr0n thing, since so many people believe that DVD Porn doesn't matter thesedays...

In 2005 almost $5 billion was spent on DVD Porn. In that same year, $20 billion was spent on motion picture DVDs -- 1 out of every 5 dollars spent on DVDs is spent on Porn.

Now tell me that porn isn't still a driving force in the optical media industry.

I'm sick of Sony trying to get rich quick with it's proprietary media. I guess I can't blame them for trying, but I do enjoy seeing them fail. Here's hoping for another strike out. As for availability of PS3's, the last 4 stores that sell electronics I have been at have had 3-4 PS3s just sitting on the shelf. People walk by them, poke them with a stick, look at the price tag and walk away. I haven't seen a Wii sitting on the shelf yet.

yeah

There was an article on here a few days ago saying that HDDVD had a 51 GB disc they had just finished (1 GB above BluRay's top).

If Sony would have made the PS3 compatible with PS2 and PS1 games it would be selling a lot more than it is now. I bought my PS2 because I could play DVDs on it and my old PS1 games.....so at the time the dvd was already out so sony couldn't "drive" the market, but it did help it out (any extra push to something is going to help). The same thing happened with the Porn industry and the betamax/vhs thing too, the porn industry gave a huge push to vhs.

What it is going to come down to is who can make the hardware the cheapest and the discs the cheapest......and who can do it the fastest (and sony requiring you to start your whole collection of games and movies playable on a console isn't going to help much and is going to limit the sales of that console).

Hey someone

The new HD-DVD is a prototype and is not on the market. It is probably going to be on the market around the same time as the 100 and 200gb blu ray prototypes. You can play almost all your PS1 and PS2 games on PS3. Way to know things. Not.

Damn, everyone needs to stop acting like they know everything, and quit trying to predict the future. In due time we will know which HD tech will catch on. Same as the Beta/VHS and IPX/SPX vs. IP....Everybody is dead seat in their opinion...lots of people are bound to be wrong. Just wait and see...

History Lesson

Back when the PS2 came out here in the US, Oct 2000, most DVD players were in the $150-$250 price range so for a new game platform that played older PS1 games and was a DVD player for only $300, it was a great deal.

In Japan when it came out there in March 2000, six months earlier, DVD player sales hadn't taken off yet. Combine the small size of most Japanese apartments with a new game system that could replace your old PS with a "free" built in DVD player for 40000 yen (the Sega Dreamcast was 30000 yen in late November 1998), it was an instant hit. Now with more DVD players in people's homes, Sony's movie division (Columbia/Tri Star) had more people to sell DVDs to. So yes in their eyes the success of the PS2 drove DVD sales by getting a player into the home by bundling a DVD player with a game system.

Of course there wasn't any real alternative format out at the time unlike the Blu-Ray Vs HD-DVD battle that is going on now. Well in the states there was the horrid Circuit City DIVX DVD format (an pay to play format, not the DivX compression technology) but that died in 1999. But while it was going on not all movie studios released their movies on DVD, some (Disney for one) would only sell it on DIVX DVDs.

We Suck

Gabe Newell, Co-founder and Managing Director of Valve Software, had this to say about the PS3:

“The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels. I think it’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers wanted and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should cancel it and do a ‘do over.’ Just say, ‘This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it.’”

Too Skeptical

Stinger's word choices don't seem to be absolute terms that exclude the possibility of other factors that helped to drive DVD adoption. This sounds like a massive misinterpretation taken out of context... like most sound-bytes. this is shades of Al Gore & the internet if you ask me. People make poor word choices once and a while when they speak. It hardly seems rational or fair to chastise people so relentlessly for a minor slip-up once and a while; especially if you can deduce their actual intentions through the context of everything else that they say.

You guys need to stop shouting that Sony has sold 110 million consoles, so therefore, they drove the DVD format. Sony did not reach those numbers until christmas of this year. So quit it, just.. stop.

On another note, the playstation 2 was a horrible dvd player untill the newer model with progressive scan was added, and even then, they were subject to screw up; so is the legend of the PS2. And as has been pointed out already, by the time DVD's became mainstream, there were already better, and cheaper players.

Oh, and another thing. You guys looking at online retailers, aren't looking hard enough. Browse around some more, hell.. maybe even go to a brick and mortar shop. There was a statement issued less than a week ago saying that 28/52 shops had anywhere from 2-60 60gb PS3's laying around, that "weren't selling all that fast."

Listen. Ken Kutaragi has been going ape-shiat crazy with smearing the Sony name around - most effectively with the PS3. All this is, is a little positive spin, and some spot cleaning done by some sane and rational players over at Sony.

You all lose

Fuck this shit. 50GB disks for a High Def movie? Haven't any of these fools heard of Mpeg4 compression? Fuckit, I predict no one will give a shit about dvd formats in 2 years. We´ll all be streaming off the internet directly onto our 400GB HARDDRIVES!

Sony's "100 million PS2"

Out of those "100 million" how many were replacements and repurchases. three-fourths of my friends had PS2s die, my cousin had them die 3 times and kept getting them replaced, whereas I had mine repaired as well as anyone else I know who got one early. Plus I know several others that re-purchased them when the slim PS2s came out.

So "100 million" definetly doesn't mean that there are anywhere near that many functioning PS2s out there. They just sold that many to replace their own products.

This just in...

Sony can claim whatever they want...

Sony can claim whatever they want... But for me, the PS2 didn't drive anything. I own over 800 DVD movies, and have never owned a PS2. I also will never own a PS3. I don't see any games for it that intrigue me coming out over the next couple of years. I already own an HD-DVD player, and that is the format I will support. I could care less about the sales numbers for either format. All I know is when I go to Best Buy, it looks like HD-DVD movies are selling better than Blu-Ray. But with Warner's Total HD Disc, and Dual Format Players coming to the market, maybe we don't need a single format to win this time. They could just co-exist, like many other products out there.

Silly comparisons

"The PS2 was a DVD player and DVD was a successful format, ergo Blu-ray will be a successful format because the PS3 is a Blu-ray player!"

The logic is ludicrous. Remember:

* DVD players had been around for four years when the PS2 launched. DVD was already an established format.

* DVD had no competing format to go up against.

* The leap from VHS to DVD was more than just a visual upgrade. Instant access to any part of the movie, special features like commentaries and deleted scenes, surround sound ... and other than the enhanced audio, you didn't need ANY special equipment to experience these benefits.

* The leap from DVD to HD DVD/Blu-ray is primarily visual. There are some minor enhancements to audio and to special features, but it's an evolution, not a revolution that way VHS --> DVD was. Many casual consumers, the types of people who MUST be won over for a format to succeed, can't even immediately tell the difference between upconverted DVD and HD DVD/Blu-ray.

* HD DVD/Blu-ray REQUIRES an HDTV, and the majority of American homes still have standard defintion sets.

* The Betamax vs. VHS war is still fresh in peoples' minds, and because of that the casual consumer will not buy into either high def DVD format until one is an obvious winner.

* Just because the current capacity of HD DVD is 25 GB doesn't mean it will always be so. Commercially available higher capacity discs are a given within a year or two.

* Just because more studios currently back Blu-ray doesn't mean they always will. You can rest assured that if HD DVD starts to become dominant, all of the studios will switch over and release their films on HD DVD as well. Sony/MGM will be the last holdout, but if HD DVD ultimately wins the format war, even they will have no choice but to switch.

* Sony will say and do ANYTHING to promote and protect Blu-ray. ANYTHING. All of their eggs are in the Blu-ray basket. If Blu-ray fails, the PS3's movie playback is no better a feature than UMD playback on the PSP, and it simply becomes an overpriced game console fighting against two very strong competitors. So anything Sony says about Blu-ray comes with a very explicit agenda.

Step back and look at the big picture, folks. It's really not that hard.

This is pretty funny - HD-DVD proponents claiming Sony will say anything about BluRay. I guess they forgot to note that BluRay is a consortium of 200 odd big manufacturers, and BluRay is a _standard_.. that these manufacturers are implementing.

And HD-DVD lovers somehow seem to forget, that HD-DVD wasn't even going to exist, until MS started backing it :) Yes, thats right, thanks to MS and its cash HD-DVD BECAME a competing format. Otherwise there wouldnt be all this stupidity.

Then you get writers like this claiming that the PS2 didnt push DVD sales - sorry to burst your bubble, but it did. PS2 sold 30 million units in first two years, almost 3 times more than any of the competing DVD players.. hrm?

Now, PS3.. since PS3's launch, BluRay sales are now about 3:1 to HD-DVD.. previous it was about 1:1.. people who claim commodity devices like console machines have no effect on media uptake are plain idiots.

And people keep quoting betamax vs vhs as if its some sort of precedent? What are you people on? Formats have come and gone FOR ALL SORTS OF REASONS.. and funnily enough.. even betamax survived in the professional video industry, so its hard to justify it as a failure in any case?

The whole thing is you fanboys get onto your favourite stupid electronics device, and tell everyone "buy this one cos its the best.. and I know everything..", fact is in 5 years time, no one will even care.. so get the hell over it. Consoles, media, electronics come and go so quickly its pointless trying to be some stupid voice for a company marketing a product. Buy what you like and be happy.. quit being a product evangelist.

Lol I dont remember hddvd even being a threat to blu ray and heres all these retards swearing by it. And anyone with half a brain knows the ps2 pushed dvd and like wise around. It was the main reason to get a ps2 over a dreamcast. I think its funny how ms used dvd for 2 generations and supported hddvd. And now theyre following sony with blu ray for the xbox one.