I have never worked in a place where employees can bring guns to work every day, and I have no desire to do so. Obviously, I do not work in law enforcement or corrections, and unless I worked at a gun range I cannot imagine a need to bring a gun to work everyday.

It shows that the gun lobby has done their job. Gun ownership--but not food or medical care-- as our basic human right as an American.

Religion and guns go together well -- the advocates of both rely on fear to perpetuate their beliefs.

I don't know why some Americans are so in fear of their lives that they are compelled to bring guns to work and risk shooting someone. That is just asinine.

I don't feel compelled to bring a gun to work currently. However the guys who drive into seedy neighborhoods in the middle of the night to do their jobs might be advised to do so. My old company used to send people into the worst parts of NYC to service broken cell sites in the middle of the night with thousands of dollars in equipment. One car was shot, one guy was mugged. in a team of 10 people that probably would count as odds high enough for me to bring a gun with me.

your last comment is asinine as well.

Bringing my gun to work would not make me risk shooting a coworker. Well that is unless said coworker was trying to kill me. But then I would not say that was risking shooting a coworker.

My guns simply do not risk people when i carry them or even when I use them. If you are risking accidentally shooting someone you are doing something wrong.

There are certainly some jobs and some environments where people are at risk of being attacked or robbed. People in those situations might want to learn how to use a gun.

Or not. Guns are also valuable and worth stealing. Another expensive piece of equipment for the bad guys to try to take.

I never carried a gun when I was social worker in one of the most dangerous housing projects in the country. There were plenty of guns around, mainly in the hands of youth who had no idea how to use them. I did not need to get into a shootout with a crazy 13-year-old over the contents of my purse--the money is his.

But if someone had physically assaulted me, I would have been ready to defend myself. Just not with a gun. I studied martial arts and I carried a knife instead.

Why? He was commenting on my post which referenced an incident where some jack-hole brought his gun to work and it accidentally discharged through his own negligence. Someone could easily have been hurt. It was pure luck no one was.

However the guys who drive into seedy neighborhoods in the middle of the night to do their jobs might be advised to do so.

I see that as their employer's responsibility to make sure they are safe. It ridiculous to tell them, "go into this war zone and make sure you bring a gun." Nope. That was not part of the employment agreement. You want me to go somewhere dangerous, you provide security as well. That is as stupid as saying teachers should be armed so they can prevent school shootings. jesus TF christ, aren't they responsible for enough that we don't need to pile that on top as well?

I don't think that was the proposition. I think the proposition is, if someone brings a gun to work, the odds go up of anyone he or she works with being shot. You cannot be shot at work by a gun that is not there. Likewise, you can be shot by someone who did not mean to shoot you. (the whole premise of this thread)

Why? He was commenting on my post which referenced an incident where some jack-hole brought his gun to work and it accidentally discharged through his own negligence. Someone could easily have been hurt. It was pure luck no one was.

While it may be my opinion, it is not asinine. The constant desire to carry a weapon is based on the fear that one may need such a weapon. Given that Americans experience relatively low rates of crime, the compelling desire to carry a firearm can only be attributed to fear. Inordinate fear. I am over 45 years old and the closest I have been to needing protection was when my car was vandalized in 1989 (and that happened in the middle of the night while I was cozy in my bed while my car was being jacked up by vandals in the parking lot outside). I have entered the neighborhoods of West Baltimore without the assistance of a firearm. There are people who cannot imagine traveling the suburbs without a firearm, yet I enter West Baltimore without one. Am I stupid? Maybe. But I have not been bothered by anyone.

I am not off the mark in observing that both religion and guns rely on fear for the perpetuation of each. If people were not in fear of something, they would not need either guns or religion. While some people may have guns for fun, the ones who need a gun for conceal carry are definitely in fear of something. What, exactly?

However the guys who drive into seedy neighborhoods in the middle of the night to do their jobs might be advised to do so.

I see that as their employer's responsibility to make sure they are safe. It ridiculous to tell them, "go into this war zone and make sure you bring a gun." Nope. That was not part of the employment agreement. You want me to go somewhere dangerous, you provide security as well.

I work for an insurance company. Our regional employees numbered about 3,000 at one point. There were about 5 employees who were required to qualify for conceal carry permits, and were required to obtain them in order to have their specific jobs (the job postings themselves stipulated the carrying of firearms). Their jobs were to investigate insurance crimes. They were asked to deal with difficult people in dangerous situations and the only way the company had to protect those employees when they were on their own was to have the employees be trained to use firearms and to carry them at all times. THOSE employees, and only THOSE employees ever carried firearms or were even allowed to carry firearms into any company building. Nearly every time one of THOSE employees came into one of our buildings, they left their firearms in the company cars. It was rare for them to bring them inside. Certainly, they were allowed to do so by their job description, but they often felt that it was unwise to do so.

That particular requirement was eliminated from their job duties (only about 5 employees) about 10-15 years ago, mostly because it was deemed too risky for them and for their fellow employees on the rare occasions they entered company-owned facilities.

I was surprised to learn that a few (very few) employees were not only expected to carry firearms but were required to do so. However, it was out of an abundance of caution. It was also out of an abundance of caution that the practice was discontinued.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

There were about 5 employees who were required to qualify for conceal carry permits, and were required to obtain them in order to have their specific jobs (the job postings themselves stipulated the carrying of firearms).

Ah, well, that is a little different than what I was talking about. I can see that as a requirement for some jobs. Not for "repairman", which is what epidemic seemed to be describing. And for those jobs it is communicated as a requirement up front. And I would imagine it pays a little more for that.

Ah, well, that is a little different than what I was talking about. I can see that as a requirement for some jobs. Not for "repairman", which is what epidemic seemed to be describing. And for those jobs it is communicated as a requirement up front. And I would imagine it pays a little more for that.

It didn't pay a lot more (at least in my opinion), but the company was far more liberal with leave time for those employees. They didn't want them being stressed out.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Deputies also arrested Perry Don James, Pineda's father-in-law. James threw his son-in-law's gun in a pond on the property because he is a convicted felon and was afraid to have the gun on his property, Walton said...."The aggravating part of this whole deal is that their dishonesty wasted several man hours of not only the Rogers County Sheriff's Office, but our partners at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office," Walton said.

I would hardly call people who lied about the circumstances behind shooting their friend "responsible gun owners". Certainly not when one of them actually threw a gun into a pond because they were a convicted felon who wasn't legally allowed to have guns on their property.

Deputies also arrested Perry Don James, Pineda's father-in-law. James threw his son-in-law's gun in a pond on the property because he is a convicted felon and was afraid to have the gun on his property, Walton said...."The aggravating part of this whole deal is that their dishonesty wasted several man hours of not only the Rogers County Sheriff's Office, but our partners at the Tulsa County Sheriff's Office," Walton said.

I would hardly call people who lied about the circumstances behind shooting their friend "responsible gun owners".

That's the thing. It is hard to tell the responsible gun owners from the rest. Because a lot of the time the non-responsible ones look just like responsible ones, until they don't.

Take the fool who dropped his gun in the men's room. Never happened to him before. Yet, the accident happened because he did the stupid, negligent thing he always did, and this one time it went wrong. Up until that point, he was a "responsible gun owner". Unfortunately, his idiot employer still thinks of him that way, instead of adding new information and re-evaluating his value to the company.

I do FMEAs - Failure Mode Effects Analysis - for my job. It is a system whereby you look at how a design or a process can go wrong so you can hopefully correct it before it happens. You make certain assumptions (the materials are good, etc) and you brainstorm where errors can be introduced. You then evaluate them based on 3 factors:

likelihood of happening (1 being the least likely, 10 being a certainty),

likelihood of detecting the error (1 being it will be found always, 10 being it will never be found until too late) and

the severity of the error (1 being inconsequential, 10 being death)

You multiply these three numbers for each failure mode and address the highest scores first. Anything with a severity of 8 or higher, no matter the score, goes right to the top of the list, since it involves hurting people. In the airline industry, the severity is almost always a 10, because almost any failure can lead to a plane crashing.

It is the same thing with guns. The problem is, we do not really take guns or gun safety seriously in this country. If we did, the Big Foot hunters, and all the rest of the responsible-until-they're-not gun owners would not get within shouting distance of guns.

Instead we have this: (warning, rude language) http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2013/11/guns-and-ammo-magazine-firing-shows.htmlPro-gun guy writes an editorial for Guns and Ammo suggesting that maybe a little regulation in the form of 16 hours of quality training is a good idea. How was that received? With howls of indignation, promises to cease subscriptions and his ultimate firing. Yay responsible gun owners.

As I've said before, if these idiots were only shooting themselves, then I would be completely behind their agenda of inadvertently improving the gene pool by subtracting themselves from it. But that isn't what happens. More often than not, someone else pays the price for their stupidity.

So, please pardon me if I get a little liberal about who is or is not a responsible gun owner.

I'm into guns. Handguns. Mostly revolvers. I go shooting about twice a week and I load my own ammo so that I can afford serious practice.

Part of loading your own ammo requires "clocking" the round, measuring its velocity with an instrument called a chronograph a "crony".

The round is fired over the instrument between the struts. Of course if you are using the gun sights to aim and you are standing up close to the instrument, you have to remember parallax. The bullet will hit quite a bit lower than the sights.

One thing I do know is that if you put a .380 acp round through the face of the crony exiting out the rear, it doesn't work very well.

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On Saturday, nearly 40 armed men, women, and children waited outside a Dallas, Texas area restaurant to protest a membership meeting for the state chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a gun safety advocacy group formed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

Look at the photo. Is that responsible gun ownership? It looks more to me like a mob. That guy was crazy for not calling the police.

And what the hell is this?

Quote

Other gun advocate groups will hold rallies this upcoming December 14th, the anniversary date of the Sandy Hook shooting.

Look at the photo. Is that responsible gun ownership? It looks more to me like a mob. That guy was crazy for not calling the police.

It's the guy in red that gives me the chills. If you're sat waiting peacefully for someone to come talk to you, thats NOT the way you do it.

And the argument for not calling 911? Makes no sense at all. If all those guys with guns were waiting peacefully with their legally carried firearms to have a civil chat with people they disagreed with, then a few carloads of cops being there would make no difference. The decision not to call 911 ONLY makes sense if he fully expected the guys with guns to start shooting.

Look at the photo. Is that responsible gun ownership? It looks more to me like a mob. That guy was crazy for not calling the police.

It's the guy in red that gives me the chills. If you're sat waiting peacefully for someone to come talk to you, thats NOT the way you do it.

And the argument for not calling 911? Makes no sense at all. If all those guys with guns were waiting peacefully with their legally carried firearms to have a civil chat with people they disagreed with, then a few carloads of cops being there would make no difference. The decision not to call 911 ONLY makes sense if he fully expected the guys with guns to start shooting.

Gunbullies, just like the guy said.

It's not responsible gun ownership. It's also not socially responsible, either. When you have a disagreement with someone the last thing you should do is grab a firearm and display it provocatively. These gunbullies don't want to be rational and discuss their issues; they want to force their viewpoint upon anyone who doesn't agree. Isn't the whole point of possessing firearms for the purpose of personal defense and not intimidating or forcing others into having a different opinion?

What if these women were at abortion clinics and as each of them left they saw a group of men whipping out their erect penises and yelling "come and take it"?

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

It looks more to me like a mob. That guy was crazy for not calling the police.

If people can go out and display their firearms like this in Texas or other places, how in the hell is any person supposed to know when a person carrying a firearm is simply exercising his/her Second Amendment rights versus being a criminal? How is this to be discerned when there is a group of them doing them same?

If this group doesn't like what a few women think about guns and this is their counterpoint, what should you think about this group if you are black? Should they concern you? What if you are Latino? If they go after women to intimidate them, they will go after anybody else. Last time I checked when you pursue and or corner someone, you are guilty of assault.[1]

It's not responsible gun ownership. It's also not socially responsible, either. When you have a disagreement with someone the last thing you should do is grab a firearm and display it provocatively.

No kidding. It's a crime called "brandishing a weapon". In most states you would get a felony and lose your right to own a firearm. It's also fucking stupid. If someone displays hostility and draws a weapon that constitutes an imminent threat to life an limb and most places you are justified in shooting him. I damn sure would. I'm not going to wait to find out if he really means it or not. He can aim and fire in an instant and I would need two seconds to draw.

I absolutely agree with the suggestion that one should have to undergo significant training before being allowed to own a firearm, especially a handgun. I also think that one should be required to register every firearm with the state just like a vehicle. Currently sales between individuals require no background check nor any kind of registration. This practice is very common. I bought most of my guns privately.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:15:34 PM by zvuv »

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It's also fucking stupid. If someone displays hostility and draws a weapon that constitutes an imminent threat to life an limb and most places you are justified in shooting him. I damn sure would. I'm not going to wait to find out if he really means it or not. He can aim and fire in an instant and I would need two seconds to draw.

I'm very surprised that someone didn't call the police on this merry band of thugs, but then again, what could the police do? This type of activity must be normal in Texas. Perhaps upon exiting their cars in the parking lot, Texans just aim and shoot their prey before they haul it into a restaurant and ask the chef to whip up a good meal with it. I mean, if you have a group of 20 people you gotta shoot a lotta critters to feed 'em all.

More sanely, I do wonder what the police would do if they received a phone call stating that in the parking lot were 20 people holding baseball bats in hand and this group appears to be waiting for another group of people to exit the restaurant .... I wonder ....

I absolutely agree with the suggestion that one should have to undergo significant training before being allowed to own a firearm, especially a handgun. I also think that one should be required to register every firearm with the state just like a vehicle. Currently sales between individuals require no background check nor any kind of registration. This practice is very common. I bought most of my guns privately.

WHAT?!?! That is treason!! It's the right of every red-blooded male (white male, anyway) to buy, trade, shoot, brandish or just make love to a firearm of any kind at any time whatsoever.

We should not treat firearms like cars! Cars are dangerous weapons and require training, experience, licensure, testing and monitoring. Cars are nothing like firearms. Firearms are constitutionally required of every person to possess! DAMMIT!

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

On Saturday, nearly 40 armed men, women, and children waited outside a Dallas, Texas area restaurant to protest a membership meeting for the state chapter of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, a gun safety advocacy group formed in the aftermath of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.

Look at the photo. Is that responsible gun ownership? It looks more to me like a mob. That guy was crazy for not calling the police.

And what the hell is this?

Quote

Other gun advocate groups will hold rallies this upcoming December 14th, the anniversary date of the Sandy Hook shooting.

They will agree with that, but they will say there is no right to drive a car in the constitution.

Let's pass a law that requires a person to surrender his/her drivers license upon exercising his/her Second Amendment rights. That's a good way to recognize that driving is a privilege and that guns are a right.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Heavy volume this week, as we top 50 listings for the first time in quite a while. But that just gives me a chance to remind you that statistically, I'm capturing only about 20 percent of accidental gun injuries each week, and there's no telling how many accidental discharges or other types of GunFAIL are being missed that don't immediately cause injury. I suspect that the arrival of November—and with it, deer hunting season—is partly responsible for the increase in gun cleaning accidents, of which there were eight admitted instances. Three people were accidentally shot in hunting mishaps, as well. Four, if you count the one who says he and his friends were out hunting for Bigfoot. In Tulsa, Oklahoma. Because of course. A fifth victim shot himself in the face when he took his rifle out while telling hunting stories. ...(more)

interesting photo in the link provided by Chronos, regarding the 40 armed idiots attempting to intimidate 4 women at a restaurant. It showed two perspectives on the photo - one was from the think progress link I posted. the other was from straight on. In the straight on, it shows they were posing for a group photo. It looks a lot less ominous.

But the point remains - 40 goobers stalking 4 women and demonstrating with an open show of weapons is a problem.

Said in irony, of course, but I've had that charge and worse leveled at me in the gun forums where the word "liberal" carries the same charge as "terrorist".

Even the most modest gun control is considered the thin edge of the wedge. The govt plans to take our guns away. They want to disarm the population so that they can round them up in concentration camps and hand them over to the UN. You scoff eh? Just wait till you are being led away like helpless sheep while black helicopters circle overhead. Nobody wanted to believe that Hitler was really going to exterminate the Jews either.

Since the election, followed by the Newtown shooting and talk of gun control, there has been a massive panic buy. Ammo has been impossible to find even at inflated prices and gun prices have shot up. The gun and ammo mfrs are running two or three shifts and cannot keep up. Of course, once hoarding starts, everyone is forced into it. If I find ammo at Walmart, I will buy four boxes where I would have just bought one. Obama has been the best thing for the gun industry in a century. They ought make him an honorary lifetime member of the NRA.

While these guys sit on a caches of freshly bought guns and case upon case of ammo, they accuse the govt of deliberately inducing the shortage to, you guessed it, disarm the population. You don't think you did this to yourselves? Quoting production and sales numbers given out by the mfrs does no good. All this information is controlled by the govt and the Liberal Media and anyway, quoting stats is a weasel liberal trick.

If you thought arguing with fundies was absurd, try these guys. It's surreal. I don't dare mention that I'm an atheist.

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I was a hidden treasure and I longed to be known. So I created the Creation so that I may be known. hadith qudsi