I don't know if this has happened to any other guard but after my guard's last show our instructor informed us of something that i don't understand. I don't mean to be all oh we are the best or anything, but i think we have a really good show and at the last two shows we haven't been placing very good. We were informed when we got home that the judges are giving us such a bad placement because the work in our show is too challenging for the competitors in our division...i mean the judges placed us in the division but now are penilizing us because we are too good for our division but they wont bumb us up...does this make since to anyone? also our instructor asked us if we wanted to make our show easier to please the judges and the majority of our guard wanted to keep it the same...i just wanted to hear if anyone has any feedback on this? Thanks!!

Huh. That's weird. That sounds REALLY familiar ...There is no way you can get a bad score because your show is too challenging. Honestly, that's not how it works. It's all about execution and excellence. If the other guards have easy vocab but they are nailing it, great execution, and the whole group is reaching their excellence ... they are going to outscore a group with more difficult work but not everyone is executing it, or the technique is all different.

The judges might just not like your show.
I mean last year the judges didnt like our show at all. They thought it was too weird.
plus we werent that good
and yah, i really dont think judges would do that to a group. If thats the way they are doing it, it's messed up.

_________________I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!

ya, its compleatly jacked up that we are getting penalized for being put in the wrong division. Our routine is really complex for our division, but since we were put in the wrong division we now have downhill scores and placings, even though our routine is getting cleaner and more challenging!!!

_________________-Reigning Miss NCBA-
Guard Alumni

My milkshake brings all the boys to the board and they're like "itz btr ten urz".

There are a few answers to this.....(from an instructor and judge)........

1. Maybe your work is say an open class level (for an A guard) but the members are not achieving (able to perform the work technically accurate and correct).....or perhaps one or two members can get it but others cannot.

2. Maybe they are commenting on the full picture of the program (not just the equipment vocabulary) - but is the work musical, do the members understand/apply/achieve the equipiment, do they u/a/a the body under equipment, is there correct and appropriate staging so that they eye is led around the floor, is the design demonstrating the design qualities (space, weight, flow, time, breath, etc)?

I think as an instructor, that we have to design for the achievement of the guard as a whole - so that more advanced members are challenged and so that beginning members can achieve as well - this takes A LOT of work! But I think in the long run you have to design for your guard and not necessarily for a class!

If you like your program if you are achieving and LEARNING and developing sound technical skills, then go for it.........your success may not be measured in trophies this season, but in the growth of the program, in your success within your program, and in many many other ways./........remember success is NOT determined by awards!

_________________Talent is not only a blessing, it is a burden, as the gifted ones will soon find out - Vince Lombardi

no, they literally mean our routine is too complex for the division we have been placed at (like if Logan had been placed down a division).

Our instructor has written a routine that can be performed by all level performers. While one group is doing toss turn arounds with sabres we have a group of flags doing carves and such. Our opening toss is a toss turn around with a flag. Granada is notorious for toss turns around with our equipment.

_________________-Reigning Miss NCBA-
Guard Alumni

My milkshake brings all the boys to the board and they're like "itz btr ten urz".

I have no problem with our situation, if thats what the judges have decided, they have that right. and honestly, theyre just placings, so now we shouldn't worry as much about what place we get, but instead, try harder to reach the audience and perform with all we have; even if we might not be in the appropriate division. There aren't any poor sports here if that's what people are assuming

Last edited by captain-lo on Fri Feb 20, 2004 10:16 pm, edited 3 times in total.

*inhale ... exhale* I believe that a performer does not have the right to say that those who place higher than them do not deserve it. You can say that you think you should be placed higher, but don't put down groups who work just as hard as you do. You are biased. Because you're performing your show and think it's the best, or close to it. But you do not see what the spectator's and judges are seeing as they watch the groups perform one after another. Now I really want to see your show, only because I want to see what all the fuss is about, and if you are as great as you're claiming to be.

*inhale ... exhale* I believe that a performer does not have the right to say that those who place higher than them do not deserve it. You can say that you think you should be placed higher, but don't put down groups who work just as hard as you do. You are biased. Because you're performing your show and think it's the best, or close to it. But you do not see what the spectator's and judges are seeing as they watch the groups perform one after another. Now I really want to see your show, only because I want to see what all the fuss is about, and if you are as great as you're claiming to be.

True that

_________________I bet a funny thing about driving a car off a cliff is, while you're in midair, you still hit those brakes! Hey, better try the emergency brake!

first of all, i haven't seen your show, but you were saying that your coach has written a show that can be performed by all levels, yet you said that you guys do a double turn around toss with your flag. well, i saw that you guys are in IA, and the guard i'm on (RBV Varsity) is in SA and we all do a double turn around with our flag during our flag feature. But, just because you do it, doens't mean you will get a huge amount of points for it. Of course the impact on judges and the audience would be a lot better if everyone caught it (not saying you guys dont, i've never seen it). Also, for you scoring/diffictulty problem. The judge might have been saying that the work you're doing is too hard for everyone on YOUR guard to accomplish. The fact that you guys do a double turn around and we also do a double turn around obviously means that it's not exactly too difficult of work for your division considering we're a division below you. An example...One of our judges said that our weapon work could be harder...doesn't mean for the whole division...it means just for our guard. They said that we make it look like we're not being challanged..but considering the judges don't know that we've only been spinning rifle since fall season of this year and sabre since the beginning of winterguard, we're obviously going to have easy work. This doesn't mean that everyones work in our division is too easy....it's just for us. sometimes you have to read between the lines....and that may be the case in your situation.

When i posted this topic i didnt want other members of my guard to come off as saying that we are the best because anyone that has seen our show knows that we are not. Our show's layout has two completely different separated groups....we have the majority of the members doing doubles on flag and triples on sabre, the majority of that group finds the work written for them is too easy and that they are not being challenged....at the same time we have a group of 6 members who are in the challenging parts of the show. the same 6 members are in the "advanced flag part", the sabre feature, and also the riffle feature. after listening to the positive and negitive fedback that i have recieved i think maybe one of the problems that there is a problem with the placings or scores or divisions is that we have a group that is being challenged but then at the same time we have a group that isnt being challenged at all, and its the same people. i think that perhaps the judges are trying to tell us that we need to combine the entire guard instead of just a few members.

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