This is the fundamental problem with the oriental mindset. there is no real concept of honor or shame, only false equivalence of "saving face" that makes them look for any way, any way at all, to avoid responsibility, and concomitantly commit horrid crimes and rationalize them much more easily than any westerner in their right mind could. This womans entire being is irrational and devoted to only finding a way for reality to become twisted in her mind until her children aren't killers and it's America's fault. She probably rationalized her shoplifting the same way, and thinks if she could skip bail and not face trial, she actually didn't do anything bad, because hey, no harm no foul, right?

Its a failing of Eastern culture. Its irreparable and its why we'll never get along with those people. Fundamentally, we believe in good and evil actions, and they only believe in getting away with whatever they can.

I was initially poking fun at your stupidity in a lighthearted manner, but apparently I should have been direct so you understood it.

Yes. Yes I am. Because from everything I've read, these assholes picked this up on their own. This wasn't the family business. I feel bad for her because I'm a human farking being and I understand how terrible it must be to have overwhelming grief as well as guilt.

iheartscotch:Diogenes: Maybe someone can beat some sense into her with one of the victims' severed limbs.

"Does THAT feel staged!? Does THAT feel staged!? Does THAT feel staged!?"

I kind of feel for her; she's just lost a son and the other son looks to be heading for life in prison, if not the gallows.

Of course she'd say that they didn't do it; she's their mom! I imagine that the majority of mothers would react similarly in that situation.

/ your number 1 fan will always be your mom

No. just no. I sincerely hope not. I come from parents that love me and have my entire life and always will no matter what. That does not mean that they think I'm right all the time or haven't (as needed in much younger days) been the first ones to call the cops, throw the book at me (figuratively) and generally do whatever they needed to - to make sure that "knowing right from wrong" message got through. In this situation, I imagine they'd be horrified and devastated - for the real victims here. And that wouldn't be me.

I know some parents raise eternal victims with no sense of personal responsibility, but that can't be the majority.

Huggermugger:From my experience having lived in the Middle East, and also being related to some hardcore Teabaggers, I would say that the level of denial and self-delusion is much, much higher amongst Muslims. I don't know if it's from living in countries where the government is so horribly corrupt, but I think it's more a function of thought processes that are an integral part of Islamic doctrine.

And not to make excuses for her derp, but growing up in the Soviet Union--where systematically lying to the populace and surpressing facts was a central tenet of the government and the Communist Party that controlled the government--certainly can't have inspired her to distrust the government any less.

From my experience having lived in the Middle East, and also being related to some hardcore Teabaggers, I would say that the level of denial and self-delusion is much, much higher amongst Muslims. I don't know if it's from living in countries where the government is so horribly corrupt, but I think it's more a function of thought processes that are an integral part of Islamic doctrine. My experience has been that highly educated Muslims are just as inclined to subscribe to batshiat crazy conspiracy theories, whereas in America there's a much lower rate of authoritarian paranoia among the highly-educated. Teabaggers can accept cognitive dissonance easier than Muslims can, who have a tendency to fly into a rage of furious denial when presented with unpleasant truths.

There are two types of parents of dysfunctional offspring: those that try to figure out what to do, and those that stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalalalala! I have a friend in each category. They are both totally screwed up (not shooting people, just living broken lives and taking advantage of the people around them). One's parents know how screwed up she is. They try. They'd admit it to those close to them. The other's think she is just fine and god she's just different and stop judging. It's hard to change people that don't want help, but the second parents are just farkwits and their kid's gonna live with them til they die.

Which does Tsarnaeva resemble more? I get that she's grieving, but she can go shut the fark and do that arguably better. Some people are nuts. Some people's parents are a huge contributor to the crazy. Some might suspect she lent a helping hand of denial at earlier times too when maybe something could have been done.

But I also blame the dad too. Where's the rage on him? He's said some stupid shiat too. And he up and left the boys with mama crazypants... you kids'll be fine? Right? K, cya.

what_now:Hey you know I'm going to give this lady a pass. She just found out that her son is not only dead, he was a monster who ruined her other son's life.

Yes and no. Mostly no.

On the one hand, yes... any mother is going to be distraught and will not be entirely rational after their children did something like this. Anyone could feel some sympathy for a parent whose child has committed a horrible crime. That she is apparently crazy in general doesn't change that.

On the other hand, there's a farking limit. Once they started a cop-shooting, car-jacking, bomb-throwing rampage they erased reasonable doubts that they were behind it. If I did something like this my dad would have beaten me within an inch of my life and turned me over to the authorities himself if he could - and he'd be right to. Petty theft is one thing, mass murder/terrorism is another. I'd hunt down and turn my own son in if he did something like this. As an immediate family member and decent human being I believe it's actually our responsibility to help hold our family members accountable when they commit heinous acts like murder.

These men are responsible for their decisions and actions, but she did also help raise them. She SHOULD feel guilty about what they've done because she did help guide them in to becoming the men they are/were today with her shiatty parenting.

And while you can feel sympathy and forgive the mother having lost her sons, I think I can forgive Americans who don't offer her the same sympathy as you. She lost the two sons she gave up at 10 to another relative to raise. Because of her shiatty parenting we lost 3 people and had hundreds more injured, some quite grievously - and there almost certainly would have been more bombs and deaths had we not been able to catch them so relatively quickly. And she's adding insult to injury every time she opens her mouth and more crazy comes out. She sure isn't helping the image of Islam.

In the end though, the journalists who keep hounding her and giving her a global audience to vent her grief and delusion are also assholes as well. Leave her the fark alone, you guys aren't helping either.

iheartscotch:Diogenes: Maybe someone can beat some sense into her with one of the victims' severed limbs.

"Does THAT feel staged!? Does THAT feel staged!? Does THAT feel staged!?"

I kind of feel for her; she's just lost a son and the other son looks to be heading for life in prison, if not the gallows.

Of course she'd say that they didn't do it; she's their mom! I imagine that the majority of mothers would react similarly in that situation.

/ your number 1 fan will always be your mom

I understand the desire to protect your kids - from outside forces and from themselves. There comes atime, though, when you have to make them stand on their own two feet, whether they want to or not. Mymoment came when I had to tell the judge, a week before Christmas, that my son was just giving him lipservice and nothing he said to my son was being taken seriously and that sending him home fromjuvenile detention would just reinforce the idea that he could manipulate everyone around him.

The judge looked at me like I was a heretofore undiscovered species. Then he sent my son back to thejdc until Christmas Eve, when we were leaving to go visit in-laws.

My son was 13. He tried to snap his brother's neck and tried to stab me in the back of my neck.

ItsJustJake:They got their crazy from Religion. They got Religion from their parents.

Religion = Preventable Mental Illness.

Yup. You and me can keep ringing this bell, regardless of how many Fark hypocrites want to pretend that it's okay to be a right-winged, homophobic, misogynistic, theocratic asshole as long as you call yourself a "Muslim" and not a "Christian."

what_now:Hey you know I'm going to give this lady a pass. She just found out that her son is not only dead, he was a monster who ruined her other son's life.

She didn't raise the boys with a work ethic. She raised them to mooch, cheat and steal. She dodged the responsibilities of being a good American citizen by working out of her home, under the table, yet collected welfare benefits. She was a serial shoplifter of high end items because she was materialistic. Then, when Tamerlan went on with the "god talk" as Uncle Ruslan would say, mom joined in rather than setting him straight.

Huggermugger:I would say that the level of denial and self-delusion is much, much higher amongst Muslims. I don't know if it's from living in countries where the government is so horribly corrupt, but I think it's more a function of thought processes that are an integral part of Islamic doctrine. My experience has been that highly educated Muslims are just as inclined to subscribe to batshiat crazy conspiracy theories, whereas in America there's a much lower rate of authoritarian paranoia among the highly-educated.

I think it might more have to do with elements of Islam than even living in these countries.

Last time I checked, less than 50% of Muslims in America believed that Muslims were behind 9/11

Kibbler:We hate and blame and hate the mother? Who is clearly cracked in two with grief and shame?

yeah.....can you imagine trying to process all that has happened in 10 days? seems to be that the kids, specifically the older kid, did this on their own. we like to blame the parents but i doubt mom was indoctrinating tthe kids into the shiat they got into. give her time to process everything. she may be a nutbag. but blaming her seems just like, low hanging fruit divided by scapegoating times xenophobia.

it's been pointed out by various people who know such things that Chechens are much more inclined to believe the government is behind terrible things and constantly lying about it because Soviet Russia did just that.

This woman is still nuts though. Also a tactless biatch. No wonder Ruslan cut himself off from them.

Is she in some sort of delusion due to denial over the horrible things her sons have done? Or is her local news media really twisting things around in this story, and she's just believing what they're telling her?

chuggernaught:Tatsuma: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: I understood the 'stock' comment to be more about the mother and not a racial thing.

I was clearly talking about the mother, the father and the aunt, it had fark all to do with race and eugenics. The only reason I'm getting jumped for that is just for assholes with a bone to pick gnawing at anything they think they can get.

Oh, what, now all other races are mongrel dogs to you?

j/k agree that you're getting flamed for no reason.

Seriously. It was blatantly obvious Tatsuma was not making some blanket statement about race, and was talking specifically about these guys' family. Blatantly obvious. Even if I was gung-ho to hate on him (I'm not) I still wouldn't have been able to misconstrue what he said that way without someone putting a power drill through my frontal lobes first.

JungleBoogie:She's being perfectly rational. She's doing everything she can to free her kid. At this stage of the game, that means presenting theories that someone might believe. Accurately describing reality is not her goal, freeing her kid is.

That's a very creative interpretation. Signs point to, "She's just nuts."

Tatsuma:I was clearly talking about the mother, the father and the aunt, it had fark all to do with race and eugenics. The only reason I'm getting jumped for that is just for assholes with a bone to pick gnawing at anything they think they can get.

Best defense against stupid shiat is silence. Especially on Teh Internet.

I was clearly talking about the mother, the father and the aunt, it had fark all to do with race and eugenics. The only reason I'm getting jumped for that is just for assholes with a bone to pick gnawing at anything they think they can get.

She sent her child at age 10 to live with an uncle. Parenting mistake #1 (You are in it for the long haul lady). Comparte that to parenting mistake #2 with the Connecticut Mom who was not checked in to his zip files, amongst other things, and you have a similar situation. Kids need stable parenting for along time. I am so disgusted with this lady who blames others (our country) for her wild child. Ugh.

what_now:I feel bad for her because I'm a human farking being and I understand how terrible it must be to have overwhelming grief as well as guilt.

yeah, that's what the Columbine parents and the Tucson Shooter's parents both went through. each was arguably more -- this is not the word i want to use but it will have to do -- culpable than our girl here, but....yeah. to what i said above, she learned not even 10 days ago, but barely 7, that her kids were responsible.

the entire world is watching and the bulk of them want to attribute their horrific acts to her. just not right. we may find out she was on some level responsible for what they did but....to know that your flesh and blood created that horror has to be just unimaginable.

I was initially poking fun at your stupidity in a lighthearted manner, but apparently I should have been direct so you understood it.

Yes. Yes I am. Because from everything I've read, these assholes picked this up on their own. This wasn't the family business. I feel bad for her because I'm a human farking being and I understand how terrible it must be to have overwhelming grief as well as guilt.

Save your sympathy...she named her eldest after a guy who called himself the Sword of Islam and killed 5% of the planet's population in his time...she's just disappointed the loser didn't live up to his namesake.

I was initially poking fun at your stupidity in a lighthearted manner, but apparently I should have been direct so you understood it.

Yes. Yes I am. Because from everything I've read, these assholes picked this up on their own. This wasn't the family business. I feel bad for her because I'm a human farking being and I understand how terrible it must be to have overwhelming grief as well as guilt.

Save your sympathy...she named her eldest after a guy who called himself the Sword of Islam and killed 5% of the planet's population in his time...she's just disappointed the loser didn't live up to his namesake.

Ackbarican_Idol:She's wanted on 2012 felony charges of shoplifting and property damage in Massachusetts, according to court officials.The family lived there before she jumped bail, and they moved the same year to Dagestan, a semiautonomous region of Russia, officials said.Is there a reason she can't be extradited?