#Iowa WR Tevaun Smith about to make the team who picks him in the later rounds happy, #ProDay results: 4.33/4.4, 38 VL, 10'2 BJ, 3.94 Short

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Thu Mar 24, 2016 1:43 pm

Texas Vike

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Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:52 amPosts: 3573

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Jordysghost wrote:

Which further supports my statement that WRs are a dime a dozen.

Im not opposed to a first round pick at WR, but he has to have a special kind of skill set that doesn't come along all to often. You can find quality WRs anywhere in the draft on a rather consistent basis, the same cant be said about the big guys.

Saying that any position is a dime a dozen is quite simply imprecise. Now that you've explained yourself (a great deal more) I see that you mean that quality WRs can be found in mid-rounds. That's pretty self-evident. The link DP posted is a very interesting analysis of where to find value at various positions in the draft.

I don't really care if we go WR in the first round, but I do want to invest in the position somewhere in the first 4 rounds. As the article points out, the Pack and Pats have consistently chosen WRs in the 2nd and 3rd rounds and it's a strategy that's paid off for them. There are some quality guys we ought to be considering at 23, or perhaps trading into the top of the 2nd for.

Thu Mar 24, 2016 2:39 pm

HardcoreVikesFan

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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:28 pmPosts: 6614

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

dead_poet wrote:

Quote:

#Iowa WR Tevaun Smith about to make the team who picks him in the later rounds happy, #ProDay results: 4.33/4.4, 38 VL, 10'2 BJ, 3.94 Short

I know Tevaun personally. I am pulling for him. As I am with the rest of my Hawkeyes.

_________________A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.

The numbers are not unexpected, but they are disappointing for a player thought to be the best receiver in this year's class. At 6-foot-2, 221 pounds, Treadwell creates separation with his size, route-running and ball skills, so the athletic concerns are not a death knell. Still, it is tough to justify taking a receiver who runs in the 4.6s and posted a 33-inch vertical at the combine early in the first round. Treadwell remains a day-one pick, but he is unlikely to be taken in the top 10.

Source: John Glennon on Twitter Mar 28 - 11:55 AM---

Related: I'm coming around on OSU's Michael Thomas in a pretty big way.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

The numbers are not unexpected, but they are disappointing for a player thought to be the best receiver in this year's class. At 6-foot-2, 221 pounds, Treadwell creates separation with his size, route-running and ball skills, so the athletic concerns are not a death knell. Still, it is tough to justify taking a receiver who runs in the 4.6s and posted a 33-inch vertical at the combine early in the first round. Treadwell remains a day-one pick, but he is unlikely to be taken in the top 10.

Source: John Glennon on Twitter Mar 28 - 11:55 AM---

Related: I'm coming around on OSU's Michael Thomas in a pretty big way.

Honestly I thought he would run a little slower after watching him on tape and seeing that he chose not to run at the combine.

He's certainly not a high measurable guy, and I'm not certain Rick is going to want to spend a 1st round pick on a guy who isn't a special athlete.

The numbers are not unexpected, but they are disappointing for a player thought to be the best receiver in this year's class. At 6-foot-2, 221 pounds, Treadwell creates separation with his size, route-running and ball skills, so the athletic concerns are not a death knell. Still, it is tough to justify taking a receiver who runs in the 4.6s and posted a 33-inch vertical at the combine early in the first round. Treadwell remains a day-one pick, but he is unlikely to be taken in the top 10.

Source: John Glennon on Twitter Mar 28 - 11:55 AM---

Related: I'm coming around on OSU's Michael Thomas in a pretty big way.

Honestly I thought he would run a little slower after watching him on tape and seeing that he chose not to run at the combine.

He's certainly not a high measurable guy, and I'm not certain Rick is going to want to spend a 1st round pick on a guy who isn't a special athlete.

I will not be surprised if a team picking before the Vikings makes the question moot.

For me, the bigger question is whether Spielman will force a WR at #23 even if Treadwell is there.

I think Treadwell would help our team a lot, because of his ability to catch shorter passes and fight for yards. I like his intensity. He's a smart blocker too (check 6:45 minute mark of his video). He seems like the kind of guy that would bring a spark to an offense. It was really helpful to see this video because I simply don't watch that many SEC games. I've seen all of Doctson's games live, so there's no unknown element for me with him. This guy's analysis of Treadwell helped give me a better sense of what kind of prospect he is and how he might transition to the NFL.

The Norseman articles tend to be hyper-critical. I think this guy is more objective.

I'm back to my previous position: in the first round I'd only want Doctson or Treadwell. My gut tells me that both will be gone by #23 though, so we'll be going D.

Big, tough, reliable WR that owns the middle of the field, red zone and contested catches that had high production at just 20 years-old while still recovering from injury and room to grow? Available at 23? Don't mind if I do.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Thomas' coach really does think he's special, doesn't he? Even granting the natural bias that a coach would have, he praises him and his potential as a pro, to the moon. I thought Brugler's take was more objective, seeing him as a #2 WR in the NFL. I haven't seen much of Thomas, just highlights where he tends to be open by a mile and makes an easy catch. What's got you excited about his game, DP? Where would you want the Vikes to take him? 2nd round or at #23?

Brandt, now an analyst for SiriusXM NFL Radio, believes wide receiver is the second-toughest position to scout behind quarterbacks because they “have to decide in a fraction of a second what route they run, and some guys are never able to do to that.” However, he feels the popularity of 7-on-7 youth football and pass-happy college offenses have made draft prospects more pro-ready.

Sun Apr 24, 2016 8:44 am

TSonn

All Pro Elite Player

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:52 amPosts: 1793Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

Any analysis that says "made many catches despite not running a complete route tree/rounding off routes" scares me. I've read that about both Doctson and Coleman. We've already got a guy on our team with athleticism who apparently isn't very good at running routes and he had 2 catches last year. Sign me up for Treadwell in the first or Doctson/Coleman in the second+.

Any analysis that says "made many catches despite not running a complete route tree/rounding off routes" scares me. I've read that about both Doctson and Coleman. We've already got a guy on our team with athleticism who apparently isn't very good at running routes and he had 2 catches last year. Sign me up for Treadwell in the first or Doctson/Coleman in the second+.

I think the pairing of Treadwell and Diggs would be awesome.

I just don't see how Doctson (and Treadwell if coaches value film) get out of the first round. The last four drafts had 5, 5, 3 and 4 WRs taken in the first. I understand about fit and need but these two are the consensus #1 and #2 guys at their position. I'm not convinced either make it to us. Frankly, at this point, I'd put money that they don't.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:40 pm

TSonn

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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:52 amPosts: 1793Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

dead_poet wrote:

I just don't see how Doctson (and Treadwell if coaches value film) get out of the first round. The last four drafts had 5, 5, 3 and 4 WRs taken in the first. I understand about fit and need but these two are the consensus #1 and #2 guys at their position. I'm not convinced either make it to us. Frankly, at this point, I'd put money that they don't.

I don't watch much college football (only Big 10 games periodically and bowl games) so I'm just going off the notion that a lot of experts think we'll take the first WR off the board. After looking at the top 10 WRs (and with no other context in regards to depth of other positions and team needs), Treadwell looks like the only legit first round pick to me. Big and physical possession receiver who does most of his work right in Teddy's wheelhouse of throws. I hope the experts are correct and we're the first team going WR in the first so we can get him.

I just don't see how Doctson (and Treadwell if coaches value film) get out of the first round. The last four drafts had 5, 5, 3 and 4 WRs taken in the first. I understand about fit and need but these two are the consensus #1 and #2 guys at their position. I'm not convinced either make it to us. Frankly, at this point, I'd put money that they don't.

I don't watch much college football (only Big 10 games periodically and bowl games) so I'm just going off the notion that a lot of experts think we'll take the first WR off the board. After looking at the top 10 WRs (and with no other context in regards to depth of other positions and team needs), Treadwell looks like the only legit first round pick to me. Big and physical possession receiver who does most of his work right in Teddy's wheelhouse of throws. I hope the experts are correct and we're the first team going WR in the first so we can get him.

It's pretty rare when the first WR goes off the board at 23. I'm not saying it's never happened but there are a few WR-needy teams in front of us or even a team like the Raiders (whom I'm starting to hate a lot for some reason as of late) that could pilfer one of "ours."

I'd be very ok if "our guy" dropped to us though.

_________________“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly

Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:38 pm

TSonn

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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:52 amPosts: 1793Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

dead_poet wrote:

TSonn wrote:

I don't watch much college football (only Big 10 games periodically and bowl games) so I'm just going off the notion that a lot of experts think we'll take the first WR off the board. After looking at the top 10 WRs (and with no other context in regards to depth of other positions and team needs), Treadwell looks like the only legit first round pick to me. Big and physical possession receiver who does most of his work right in Teddy's wheelhouse of throws. I hope the experts are correct and we're the first team going WR in the first so we can get him.

It's pretty rare when the first WR goes off the board at 23. I'm not saying it's never happened but there are a few WR-needy teams in front of us or even a team like the Raiders (whom I'm starting to hate a lot for some reason as of late) that could pilfer one of "ours."

I'd be very ok if "our guy" dropped to us though.

Yeah, that makes sense. Of course, according to a lot of "experts", there's no clear top WR target so the Raiders (or anyone else in the mood for a WR) could easily fall in love with Doctson's leaping ability or Fuller's speed over Treadwell's overall average pro day numbers!

Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:58 pm

Pseudo Everything

Transition Player

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:17 pmPosts: 399

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

dead_poet wrote:

It's pretty rare when the first WR goes off the board at 23.

It is rare but it does happen and this year looks like a crappy class of top end WRs

2013 Tavon Austin went #8 (huge reach) and then DeAndre Hopkins was next at #27.2010 Demaryius Thomas at #22 and Dez Bryant at #242008 Nobody in the first; Donnie Avery at #33 was the first WR that year2006 Santonio Holmes at #25 and the only WR in the 1st

The wideouts this year look like interchangeable guys. Not the same, but that each has a potentially fatal flaw to their game. I really don't want to pick one of those guys in round one. Will Fuller, for example, seems indistinguishable from Troy Williamson to me. I'd rather pick up a guy mid-2nd to mid-3rd (assuming trades get us there rather than staying put at late second).

Take Tyler Boyd for example. Pitt guy who broke Fitz's records. He runs a 4.5. His negatives:

Quote:

Relatively low touchdown production to target rate.

Bad QB play?

Quote:

Marginal long speed. Isn't a threat to run by corners and has to win with routes and hands. Just a possession receiver much of the year.

He's faster than Jerry Rice, way faster than Treadwell.

Quote:

Limited YAC potential due to lack of shake in open field and power to break tackles.

Generally not what you are drafting a receiver to do...

Quote:

Became a fumble factory on punt returns this year and ball security must be addressed. Lacks juice to be full-­time kick returner.

He won't be a returner. Done.

Quote:

Separation windows close quickly due to average get­away quickness out of breaks.

Might really be an issue if true.

Quote:

Needs to use body better to protect the catch rather than just relying on strong mitts.

He uses his incredibly strong hands to catch, because that's his strength. That's the way Anthony Carter did it. He caught the ball in his hands while using his body to shield off the defender.

Meanwhile, the positives:

Quote:

Ultra-competitive. Known for powerful hands that clamp instantly onto ball and finish heavily contested catches. Has over-­the­-middle toughness. Plays with outstanding body control and has ability to gyrate and contort in mid­air in order to make acrobatic catches look easy. ... Able to create window through route polish. Sinks into breaks and comes out low with good turn radius when needed. Sits in space and slows routes when necessary to prevent safety from crowding him in deep middle.

Those strengths, combined with what I don't see as deal breakers on the negative side, combined with the fact that he'll almost certainly be there at our pick in the second round make me wonder why we'd even consider going WR in round 1. Let's get better value with our first pick (CB? DL? OT? someone who is dropping out of the top ten surprisingly? trade down?), and pick up a pretty decent prospect in R2 while using only have the draft power points.

Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:40 pm

TSonn

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Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:52 amPosts: 1793Location: Kalamazoo, MI

Re: 2016 draft: Receivers

According to Sports Science on ESPN, Treadwell had the fastest acceleration time for the first 10 yards off the line of scrimmage. So he doesn't have the best 40 time but he does have the best 10 time. Which, for us, is kinda perfect since Teddy prefers those quick hits rather than the deep ball.