EN World EN5ider has launched! EN World EN5ider is the new way to get regular gaming articles and adventures online. For a small monthly donation, you will receive rules articles, gaming advice, adventures, and more. Collect EN World EN5ider articles and adventures designed and formatted to be filed in a binder.

In the AD&D PH, you wrote the following regarding the Bard in the appendix:

"Even though this presentation is greatly modified from the original bard character class, it is offered as supplemental to the system, and your DM will be the final arbiter as to the inclusion of bards in your campaign."

This piqued my interest, so I have been trying to track down the original bard class to compare. I went first to OD&D (Men & Magic, Eldritch Wizardry, etc) and wasn't able to find it, and I don't know where to start looking next. Did I just miss it or something?

Thanks.

Whoa!

I have a fair to middling memory, but this is too great a demand on it. going back 30 years for the basis of a character class is not possible, but...

Check The Strategic Review first and then earlly issues of The Dragon magazine, as it seems likely that is where the initial treatment of the Bard appeared.

Any reader know the actual periodical name and date of issue for the article on the Bard as a character class?

As for the demi-human, and humanoid as well, states in the Flanaess, they are relatively few because it is assumed that humans are the dominant species on the world. Were it otherwise, then one would have to deal with the creation of one or more exotic cultures and societies that I addressed previously. the locigal level limits on non-human races is also directly related to this problem.

That's interesting. Would you mind expanding a bit on the level limits issue? I must admit that, while I had no problems with the demihuman level limits in AD&D and indeed would like to see them return to more common use, I'd always assumed you introduced them as a counter to the special abilities demihumans possess compared to humans. Obviously, I was mistaken about this and there's a deeper rationale behind it.

Thanks.

Last edited by JamesM; Saturday, 20th October, 2007 at 05:01 PM.

James Maliszewski,Grognardia: An examination of the history and traditions of the hobby of roleplaying

Excellent, found it, thanks.
Its interesting seeing the two versions side by side. The dual/triple classing version makes more sense based on the narrative presented for how bards are trained in Celtic environs, and the basis for bards in Skalds of the Norse.

You know, thats something I never really considered, the idea of one class being "training" for another class. The closest I can think of to this are the zero levels for the cavalier.

If you love the work you do it is much like play, not work, so you can enjoy so much more of your life that way.
Gaming is likely the second best thing in life. If you don't know what the first is, I ain't a'gonna tell you.
Don't play with bumble bees.
A deal isn't done until the check has cleared the bank.
The bit of writing you like best in a work you are doing is likely the part that should be tossed out.
Cash is always better than credit, save when it comes to creative credit. In that case get both!
Be careful if asked for advice, as it's likely the one asking won't want to hear what you have to say. Besides, likely your advice isn't all that good anyway.

Tell me, what else are virtually all the humanoid races in fantasy and SF if not just that? ["funny-looking humans with cool powers"]...although they may not have special powers, just accentuated human characterists and senses.

As a matter of fact I am guilty of creating such species myself, but there is a reason, I am a human and think accordingly, and as I think I create. when a young female editor for a large publishing house once querried me in accusitory tone, "Why do you always write from the masculine perspective?!"

"Madam, I happen to be a male."

Gary

The only way I can do it is to adopt a strategy of some horror movies: The best way to make a monster scary is to keep it off-screen as much as possible. In my fantasy games, I try to do that by A) requiring all player characters to be human and B) limiting the PCs' interactions with demi-humans and humanoids to mostly small groups and cannon fodder. The PCs never hob-nob with a dwarven king, or eat lunch with elves, or engage in small-talk with a gnome. That would humanize them too much. Instead, I try to maintain a mystique around the demi-humans by using them sparingly. And when I do use them, they sometimes do things that make no sense at all from a human point of view. I think that the "culture shock" between a human and a demi-human should be qualitatively greater than the culture shock of a 21st-century American meeting a (for example) 14th-century B. C. Olmec.

Gary, you and Brian Blume share the credits for the 1974 Warriors of Mars game. Do you recall how much each of you contributed to the game? Did you ever referee any rpg campaigns using the individual rules in this game?

Gary, you and Brian Blume share the credits for the 1974 Warriors of Mars game. Do you recall how much each of you contributed to the game? Did you ever referee any rpg campaigns using the individual rules in this game?

Howdy,

As a matter of fact the collaboration was one in which Brian and I contributed around equally. the combat system is his, while I did most of the monsters, and the rest we shared. Brian and I co-GMed a WoM game compaign for a time, and I used the setting for some of my D&D adventures. When the Burroughs Estate shut down the publication, that was the end of active play of the system as a stand-along RPG.

OTOH, if one considers Sherlock Holmes stories classic, I am quite fond of such classics.
. . .
Sometimes in bad weather I'd burn through three pulp zines a day, or a couple of average novels or a long one. My reading speed back then was near to 600 words a minute with c. 95% comprehension. College studying slowed my speed down a good deal, and I never attempted to regain what was lost as that made the books I enjoyed reading last longer.

I do consider Sherlock Holmes among the classics. 600 wpm reading speed and long, stormy Wisconsin winters explain a lot about you, Gary.

Sadly, I'm a much slower reader, so I've read much less, more like 40 pages an hour instead of . . . something like 120 for you?

As for Shakespeare, I like it, but the Shakespeare course was my worst grade in college. Apparently, I was not cut out to study such things, even though my parents met in English department grad school. <shrug>

You know, thats something I never really considered, the idea of one class being "training" for another class. The closest I can think of to this are the zero levels for the cavalier.

The AD&D Bard is interesting, but a bit complicated and very hard to achieve -- especially if you did campaigns where there's no "starting at 6th level" stuff, only starting from 1st level.

The start as one class and become another mechanic is somewhat similar to Prestige Classes in 3.x Edition. In fact, there's a hint in the Living Greyhawk book about Bards of the "Old Lore" existing under what sounds like AD&D Bard rules. I don't think they actually made it a Prestige Class, though, sadly.