Any ASRock Z77 Extreme 4 user out there? If you also use Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo please let me know if there is any problem. I remeber reading that Hyper 212 Evo blocks the 1st Ram slot on some Mobos, that don't matter now(2X4 for me) but might be needed in the future when I get 4X4. Also, any general installation/first boot tips would be appreciated, Could I use a USB keyboard/mouse on first boot or do I have to use a P/S2 Keyboard/Mouse?

I am choosing 2 cases Phantom 410 vs Corsair 400R:, jduging by the Highhech.com reviews 400R seems to be a much better bet with Bottom dust filters, just as much airflow(more intake than exhaust) and better cable management, not to mention on sale for $20 cheaper counting rebate on newegg.

However seeing this made me conside the Define R4 with Front USB port instead of 2 and better filters over the 400R.

Last edited by sherlock on Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I looked at a few reviews of Fractal Define R4 and have been quite impressed with its front & bottom dust filters+easy access to front fan/140mm fan mounts everywhere+a 3 speed fan controller. I have the following question for R3/R4 users(heavy OCer/Gamers appreciated):

Does R3/R4's sideway front fan intake result in significantly cooling problems that interfere with your OC? If you have data on how hot your CPU(what cooler) and GPU get during OCing that would be great.

Do you add fans to the case to improve cooling, if so how many and what model?

I am thinking about getting 3/4 120/140mm fans: 1 as the push fan on the Hyper 212(making it a dual fan Cooler),1 140mm in front to add to the 140mm front intake fan, 1 140mm mounted on the bottom if there is space or the left panel(intake), the last on top as a exhaust. Is this setting good, if not what should I improve on? Fan model recommendations?

I set mine up (R3) to handle a pair of HD6950's, which are hotter than the GTX6x0's out right now, as well as an overclocked 2500k. 4.8GHz was absolutely easy with only an H60, but I did move the 120mm rear fan to the front and I added 140mm fans as intakes on the other four positions with filters.

All of these fans are set to low either by using the included fan controller or through the BIOS, and the system is nearly silent, with just a faint 'whoosh' of moving air heard. The GPUs are audible at load but not loud, as the fans keep them fed with cool air.

Most likely, if you were to just put that rear fan on the front and use an integrated water-cooler and one blower-style GPU such as the FTW, you'd be able to hit ~4.6GHz quietly. If you need more fans, that four pack you linked earlier should do the trick, just run them as slow as you can.

Airmantharp wrote:I set mine up (R3) to handle a pair of HD6950's, which are hotter than the GTX6x0's out right now, as well as an overclocked 2500k. 4.8GHz was absolutely easy with only an H60, but I did move the 120mm rear fan to the front and I added 140mm fans as intakes on the other four positions with filters.

All of these fans are set to low either by using the included fan controller or through the BIOS, and the system is nearly silent, with just a faint 'whoosh' of moving air heard. The GPUs are audible at load but not loud, as the fans keep them fed with cool air.

Most likely, if you were to just put that rear fan on the front and use an integrated water-cooler and one blower-style GPU such as the FTW, you'd be able to hit ~4.6GHz quietly. If you need more fans, that four pack you linked earlier should do the trick, just run them as slow as you can.

Thanks for the info, that sounds like a solid plan although I still prefer the Hyper 212 Evo(I'll add a fan) unless it is deficient in some way, thanks for recommending the R4, took me a while to finally realize how good it is.

The Hyper 212 Evo is a great budget cooler, and it's more than most overclocks need. I just recommend the integrated water-coolers because they get the heat out of the case and work well with positive-airflow designs that eliminate dust.

Essentially, you can get a tower cooler and an open-air cooled GPU with an open-air case, but with the result of more noise and more dust. Get an IWC and a blower GPU with a closed case like the R4, and you have a better chance of reducing both noise and dust while keeping the same performance. Keep in mind that with the R4/IWC/blower setup, you're going to get better numbers than what reviews suggest during bench testing, as a positive airflow setup increases the effectiveness of those parts (the case fans are actively 'blowing' air into them).

...just as a general suggestion - have you considered something like Antec's P183 case? I have one, and I personally consider it the best engineered case I've ever used - it's extremely quiet, it has a "symmetrical" amount of fans (2 120mm intake fan slots (fans not included), 2 120mm exhaust fan slots (fans already included)), fully filtered air intake (there's a removable filters even for 5.25" and 3.5" bays!) without retarded filters on the bottom portion of the case (I don't remove filters on my case - I simply open the front door and vacuum them once a month), very large interior which is easy to work with, no gay color LEDs or shiney/transparent plastic The only thing I really miss is that I have old revision of this case, which only had USB 2.0 front ports (the new version has USB 3.0). It may be out of your price range, though...

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JohnC wrote:...just as a general suggestion - have you considered something like Antec's P183 case? I have one, and I personally consider it the best engineered case I've ever used - it's extremely quiet, it has a "symmetrical" amount of fans (2 120mm intake fan slots (fans not included), 2 120mm exhaust fan slots (fans already included)), fully filtered air intake (there's a removable filters even for 5.25" and 3.5" bays!) without retarded filters on the bottom portion of the case (I don't remove filters on my case - I simply open the front door and vacuum them once a month), very large interior which is easy to work with, no gay color LEDs or shiney/transparent plastic The only thing I really miss is that I have old revision of this case, which only had USB 2.0 front ports (the new version has USB 3.0). It may be out of your price range, though...

The P183 was 'replaced' by the P280, which looks like a solid competitor to the R4 in features and price. Still, it looks like it's set up more for negative (exhaust centric) airflow which fits more into the 'open air' case cooling style.

Also note that the R4 is small, petite even for a dampened ATX case. It's literally as small as one can get with a traditional layout, and that was something I liked about it. If size wasn't a concern, Silverstone's Fortress FT-02 would have been on the top of my list.

JohnC wrote:...just as a general suggestion - have you considered something like Antec's P183 case? I have one, and I personally consider it the best engineered case I've ever used - it's extremely quiet, it has a "symmetrical" amount of fans (2 120mm intake fan slots (fans not included), 2 120mm exhaust fan slots (fans already included)), fully filtered air intake (there's a removable filters even for 5.25" and 3.5" bays!) without retarded filters on the bottom portion of the case (I don't remove filters on my case - I simply open the front door and vacuum them once a month), very large interior which is easy to work with, no gay color LEDs or shiney/transparent plastic The only thing I really miss is that I have old revision of this case, which only had USB 2.0 front ports (the new version has USB 3.0). It may be out of your price range, though...

The P183 was 'replaced' by the P280, which looks like a solid competitor to the R4 in features and price.

P280 is a "regression" compared to P183 (which, b.t.w, is still available for sale, for example on Amazon) - it has major engineering flaw: bottom removable air filter beneath the PSU. Not only you MUST remove it in order to clean it, you must do it from the left side of the case, which means you can't put the case against the wall on its left side (which is my current setup). On my current P183, I simply open the front door and vaccum all the filters without even removing them

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JohnC wrote:...just as a general suggestion - have you considered something like Antec's P183 case? I have one, and I personally consider it the best engineered case I've ever used - it's extremely quiet, it has a "symmetrical" amount of fans (2 120mm intake fan slots (fans not included), 2 120mm exhaust fan slots (fans already included)), fully filtered air intake (there's a removable filters even for 5.25" and 3.5" bays!) without retarded filters on the bottom portion of the case (I don't remove filters on my case - I simply open the front door and vacuum them once a month), very large interior which is easy to work with, no gay color LEDs or shiney/transparent plastic The only thing I really miss is that I have old revision of this case, which only had USB 2.0 front ports (the new version has USB 3.0). It may be out of your price range, though...

The P183 was 'replaced' by the P280, which looks like a solid competitor to the R4 in features and price.

P280 is a "regression" compared to P183 (which, b.t.w, is still available for sale, for example on Amazon) - it has major engineering flaw: bottom removable air filter beneath the PSU. Not only you MUST remove it in order to clean it, you must do it from the left side of the case, which means you can't put the case against the wall on its left side (which is my current setup). On my current P183, I simply open the front door and vaccum all the filters without even removing them

The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case, which could hurt its efficiency and lifespan. I much prefer the new way over what my P180 had; don't have to worry about piping cooler air to the PSU.

Airmantharp wrote:The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case, which could hurt its efficiency and lifespan. I much prefer the new way over what my P180 had; don't have to worry about piping cooler air to the PSU.

There's no scientific proof of whether the bottom intake right underneath the PSU actually helps the PSU in any meaningful way Also, P183 had a "partition" between PSU and general case area, which, although not airtight, was providing enough cold air to PSU (from the lower front air intake).

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Airmantharp wrote:The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case, which could hurt its efficiency and lifespan. I much prefer the new way over what my P180 had; don't have to worry about piping cooler air to the PSU.

There's no scientific proof of whether the bottom intake right underneath the PSU actually helps the PSU in any meaningful way Also, P183 had a "partition" between PSU and general case area, which, although not airtight, was providing enough cold air to PSU (from the lower front air intake).

Scientific proof? Either you feed hotter air into the PSU from the case (everything except the P18x) or you lose the intake value of that bottom intake to the rest of the system to feed the PSU cool air. Please don't bash every other case design because you set up your work area wrong.

Airmantharp wrote:Either you feed hotter air into the PSU from the case (everything except the P18x) or you lose the intake value of that bottom intake to the rest of the system to feed the PSU cool air.

And what is wrong with both of these examples? Just please don't give the vague "blah, blah, blah, in theory this is better than that" answers I have never had issues with overheating components in P183 case, even with "lost intake value of that bottom intake to the rest of the system". Did you?

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If you choose the R4, my suggestion is that you put you rear fan in the motherboard pin, no adjustment on speed needed, so you can use up to 3 fans in you fan controller. The one in the front, side and top. You should't need additional cooling as you only have a GPU.

I myself have a Antec One Hundred with 5 fans, 4 of the are connected in the fan controller. The only one is at 1500rpm all the time is the rear fan, all others (top 140mm, front 2x120mm and side 120mm) are all the way down as the temperatures keep nice and low with all the air flow. FYI, front fans blow air into the case, the rear, top and side fans blow out of the case. Work really fine, even with my overclocked components

Airmantharp wrote:The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case

You should look at JohnC's case. It is separated into "compartments" where the bottom-mounted PSU is fed air from a dedicated front fan; which is essentially the same as having a hole directly below the PSU. Not sure how that differs from your P180...I just don't see what the argument is about.

@Sherlock: Have you checked out Silverstone Air Penetrator fans? They would work well as front intake fans since they produce a concentrated channel of air. (watch video on website) Exhaust fans are more forgiving because you just need to get the air out of the case, so you don't need anything special, concentrate on low noise there. I'm a big fan of Enermax fans, their TB Silence series fans offer good airflow/noise ratios and may be a good fit for an exhaust fan.

Airmantharp wrote:The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case

You should look at JohnC's case. It is separated into "compartments" where the bottom-mounted PSU is fed air from a dedicated front fan; which is essentially the same as having a hole directly below the PSU. Not sure how that differs from your P180...I just don't see what the argument is about.

There really isn't one- JohnC's main argument is that a bottom-intake PSU with a filter is inconvenient if you shove the system back in between a wall and a desk. Otherwise, it's an archaic design decision that even Antec has moved away from across the board.

The P183 is an extra-heavy, extra-large monolith that worked well in days past where GPUs made noise, CPU coolers made noise, and hard drives made noise, and people rarely if ever used more than one GPU. It has a negative pressure design with more intake potential than exhaust and almost zero focus on GPU cooling.

The P280 rectifies most of this at a lower price point, yet it sacrifices cooling flexibility while at the same time gains significantly in size compared to the Define R4. Specifically, it lacks a side fan mount over the GPU area that would be a great exhaust for open-air cards, and a bottom fan mount that is perfect for feeding GPUs cool filtered air. The rest is the same really- it can handle an H100 if needed, but would be perfect with the quieter H80 on the back, and works just as well with something like the Hyper 212 Evo pointed toward a rear or top exhaust port.

Airmantharp wrote:The bottom filter is a progression in case design. It's based around the idea that the PSU will intake air from the outside rather than from within the case

You should look at JohnC's case. It is separated into "compartments" where the bottom-mounted PSU is fed air from a dedicated front fan; which is essentially the same as having a hole directly below the PSU. Not sure how that differs from your P180...I just don't see what the argument is about.

@Sherlock: Have you checked out Silverstone Air Penetrator fans? They would work well as front intake fans since they produce a concentrated channel of air. (watch video on website) Exhaust fans are more forgiving because you just need to get the air out of the case, so you don't need anything special, concentrate on low noise there. I'm a big fan of Enermax fans, their TB Silence series fans offer good airflow/noise ratios and may be a good fit for an exhaust fan.

Those are good recommendations but their single price/low bulk discount still makes it hard for me to take over Coolermaster's 4X120mm for $14 which allows me to Push-Pull the 212 Evo(comes with a 120mm mount for push-pull), have a bottom intake fan to feed the 670 FTW's heatsink and have 2x120mm exhaust->move rear 140 forward for 2 140+1 120 intake_> a good positive air pressure set up. I liked Define R4 more for the front fan panel(dust filter/easy removal/double 140 possible), the bottom dust filter, good internal layout/fan management & 4 USB port , the Low noise level is just gravy. If there is an open air case with all intake covered by dust filter I would certainly consider that case.

sherlock wrote:Those are good recommendations but their single price/low bulk discount still makes it hard for me to take over Coolermaster's 4X120mm for $14

I completely agree. I usually like to use as few fans as possible to keep noise at a minimum while keeping temps in check. That means placing fans right where they're needed, aka blowing directly at the GPU, blowing directly into the CPU intake fan and blowing CPU/GPU exhaust out of the case. So I'm usually in the business of adding 1 or 2 fans here or there in any given case. In your situation where you're just trying to add as much airflow as your case allows, the cooler master 4-pack is definetly a best-value. They move a decent amount of air and are relatively quiet.

With just one GPU, at most you can use a fan in that bottom spot blowing straight up into the GPU intake, assuming a FTW or similar blower. I used the side-panel spot as an additional intake due to a CF setup which worked extremely well; hell, the bottom card was 10c lower than the top one, but that's not needed with one GPU, and leaving the noise dampening in place will keep the system quieter. Further, I used the top two fan positions as intakes with the H60 exhausting right below them, and I believe this was overkill- leave those alone, and use an H80 instead, which on Low is still overkill for an overclocked Intel quad, and it's the quietest integrated water-cooler at that setting.

Airmantharp wrote:With just one GPU, at most you can use a fan in that bottom spot blowing straight up into the GPU intake, assuming a FTW or similar blower. I used the side-panel spot as an additional intake due to a CF setup which worked extremely well; hell, the bottom card was 10c lower than the top one, but that's not needed with one GPU, and leaving the noise dampening in place will keep the system quieter. Further, I used the top two fan positions as intakes with the H60 exhausting right below them, and I believe this was overkill- leave those alone, and use an H80 instead, which on Low is still overkill for an overclocked Intel quad, and it's the quietest integrated water-cooler at that setting.

I am not using the side panel fan mount, I am having the (#1)fan at the bottom 120mm slot(next to the PSU) blowing up at the GPU's radiator. I prefer not to maintain my CPU cooler so that rules out liquid cooling and for slightly more noise I can get a Push-Pull 212 Evo(#2) blowing at the back 120mm(#3) exhaust(moving the 140 forward) and a 120mm(#4) on top to suck out any heat pockets building up(as heat rises).

That's actually (mostly) what I was suggesting. I only added a side panel fan to help cool a second GPU, otherwise it's not needed. Also, the integrated water-coolers don't need maintenance- they just work. Bolt an H60 or H80 to the back and call it done; you have a positive pressure setup with three 140mm intakes pushing to one 120mm exhaust and one GPU blower.

For the setup I'm mentioning, you might even consider grabbing just the Air Penetrator fan mentioned above, as the bottom fan mount is the perfect application for one. It'd be pushing a column of air straight to the GPUs intake.

Here's what it would all look like in an R4:-move rear 140mm to front position-install IWC in rear position-install AP fan in bottom position

So, you have:-2x140mm on the front panel-1x140mm on the bottom between the drive tower and the PSU-no fans on the side panel or the top mounts-120mm H60/H80 exhausting on the back mount-GTX670 FTW in the second slot, exhausting out the back

The combination of three intake fans will create a positive-pressure setup where air is being 'forced' into the GPU HSF and the IWC, which then exhaust out of the back of the case.

Airmantharp wrote:That's actually (mostly) what I was suggesting. I only added a side panel fan to help cool a second GPU, otherwise it's not needed. Also, the integrated water-coolers don't need maintenance- they just work. Bolt an H60 or H80 to the back and call it done; you have a positive pressure setup with three 140mm intakes pushing to one 120mm exhaust and one GPU blower.

For the setup I'm mentioning, you might even consider grabbing just the Air Penetrator fan mentioned above, as the bottom fan mount is the perfect application for one. It'd be pushing a column of air straight to the GPUs intake.

Here's what it would all look like in an R4:-move rear 140mm to front position-install IWC in rear position-install AP fan in bottom position

So, you have:-2x140mm on the front panel-1x140mm on the bottom between the drive tower and the PSU-no fans on the side panel or the top mounts-120mm H60/H80 exhausting on the back mount-GTX670 FTW in the second slot, exhausting out the back

The combination of three intake fans will create a positive-pressure setup where air is being 'forced' into the GPU HSF and the IWC, which then exhaust out of the back of the case.

Hmm interesting as I have about $150 dollar left in my budget, so I could get the H80(+70 from Evo) and grab a 140mm fan(+10-15) and get that set up going, I think that's better than overspending on Ram or getting a GTX 680 variant. Or does the H80 not fit on R4? H60 is the more conservative option but I am not sure how much it outperforms the Evo. If it is just getting better cooling NH-D14 at 85 is better than H80 at 105, leaves me with $$ for the 2 140 I want to add as well.

Like this: H80 > H60 > 212 Evo. Even with a badass tower cooler, you'll need a rear fan (or top fan if you point it up). Also keep in mind that an integrated water-cooler's performance increases with intake pressure more than a tower cooler will, so reviews that test on an open bench will be a bit misleading. It's why I can get away with an H60 while running my 2500k at 4.8GHz, even with it's single stock fan installed between the radiator and the case to pull air through, which is technically less efficient than pushing air in. The H80 balances this out with a push-pull configuration, and yes, it will fit perfectly in an R4.

I dont have any experience with liquid cooling, but I will offer this: if Airmantharp is doing well with his H60 using the same case and (roughly) the same CPU that you're planning on getting, I can't imagine you'd need anything more. Not to mention that you can get it on newegg right now for $50 after MIR. For half the price, you can always toss another 120mm fan on the other side to get the push/pull config that he's talking about. That being said, the Hyper 212 Evo is still plenty for your needs as MANY people have pointed out.

If you have a Negative Pressure system, you aren't going to want to use exhausting coolers such as integrated water-coolers, GPUs with blowers, or PSUs that intake internally. This is because they'll have to struggle more than open air coolers such as tower HSFs for CPUs and open air GPU coolers with card-facing fans. In this system you'll want a whole lot of intake flow and even more exhaust flow to remove the heat radiated in the case from open air cooelrs, which means increased noise and dust, and the airflow requirement goes up with CPU and GPU TDP. Dust also clogs every little thing it can and coats heatsinks reducing efficiency all around the system. This is what I had with my P180.

If you have a positive pressure system, you can use a stock GPU with a blower and an integrated water-cooler on the CPU, and both will perform better than you see in benchmarks that test on an open bench. Mine test significantly cooler and quieter, and there's a massive increase in thermals when the case sides are removed. You can use less fans and filters actually work since air is blowing out of every little whole in the system and only coming in through a filter. Internal components stay clean if not new-looking and the system as a whole is quieter as all parts are working together. This is my Define R3, of which the Define R4 is an improvement.

This thread has turned into the zombie apocalypse of SBA. The post whoring of the OP over one build is mind blowing. I'm interested now in what other threads develop over this build, what color mouse pad should I buy and how does it compare to Brand Y.