I am still struggling to understand why their religion is having so much influence on the laws, rights and responsibilities that our government was formed to protect, 240 years ago?They can and should worship and believe as they wish...but this is a Democratic Republic, not a Theocracy. Theocracies snuff out ANY and ALL options or discussion and kill those that don't conform...Take a look at IRAN....

My other curiosity is... why would anyone pursue having services of any type or paying of hard earned cash to a person, group or company that is so openly hostile and uninterested in your business? It strikes me as a matter of looking for a fight. I understand the push to be part of the accepted mainstream, but, it seems that "open-market rules" of capitalism and competition should be the ones that dictate the long-term outcome of a businesses success. Isn't this kind of the idea behind things like the "Lavender Listings" or of the various Travel companies that cater to or are friendly to GLBT needs? "Support your community" stuff.... I realize I will get shit from some for this....but really, GOVERNMENT and RELIGION are different and should not be mixed. Hate the sinner all you want, but do your government paid job to issue marriage license. If you want a big wedding, wouldn't you want to dump that kind of cash to someone that will go out of their way to be the BEST and give you great professional services and value for the money? Fuck the ones that don't want your money!

It`a perennial problem in a democracy that simultaneously values individual conscience and equality before the law.You either have no opting out of serving a customer, or everyone can if they`re offended by a particular belief or practice. Christians might find themselves on the receiving end of this possibility.Could a muslim business refuse to serve a couple if they`re offended by the fact one of them was non-muslim, for example?

In smaller cities and towns it isn't always easy to find gay-friendly businesses. What if you live in a small town with only one florist? I try and give all of my business to gay-friendly companies, but many people live in areas where that is difficult to do.

Commerce is the life blood of a nation's economy. If you want to participate in the marketplace you must serve all reasonable requests and obey the laws (You can't refuse a person service based on their skin color), so if someone wants a cake and that's the service you provide you better damn well make them a cake. If they want a cake with "Fuck You, Asshole" inscribed on it the owner is well within his right to refuse such an unreasonable request. Otherwise, make the cake or forfeit your right to participate in the marketplace.

My other curiosity is... why would anyone pursue having services of any type or paying of hard earned cash to a person, group or company that is so openly hostile and uninterested in your business? It strikes me as a matter of looking for a fight....

And there will still be places in this country where blacks would be refused service if they didn't FIGHT for their civil right to be accommodated in the marketplace.

Lincsbear said...Christians might find themselves on the receiving end of this possibility....

Imagine a gay florist (I know redundant) refusing to provide flowers for a Christian church wedding on the grounds of what the bible says concerning homosexuality. Or all the gay choir directors walking off the job. There would be a shitload of music-less churches come Sunday morning.

because the first christian cake maker to die bleeding in the sidewalk because the gay paramedic got turned down by the christian cake maker and said KARMA BITCH, will cause all kinds of stink, and the law will change to reflect that superstitious non-sense is a pain in the ass.

Lincsbear saidIt`a perennial problem in a democracy that simultaneously values individual conscience and equality before the law.You either have no opting out of serving a customer, or everyone can if they`re offended by a particular belief or practice. Christians might find themselves on the receiving end of this possibility.Could a muslim business refuse to serve a couple if they`re offended by the fact one of them was non-muslim, for example?

Under our law, there is no such entity as a "muslim" (or christian or jewish) "business": that's the point. There are muslim, christian, and jewish "places of worship". They're not businesses, we don't subject them to taxes (or the laws attendant to having a "license" to do....business).

UndercoverMan saidCommerce is the life blood of a nation's economy. If you want to participate in the marketplace you must serve all reasonable requests and obey the laws (You can't refuse a person service based on their skin color), so if someone wants a cake and that's the service you provide you better damn well make them a cake. If they want a cake with "Fuck You, Asshole" inscribed on it the owner is well within his right to refuse such an unreasonable request. Otherwise, make the cake or forfeit your right to participate in the marketplace.

That's different: That's "publishing", and you have the right to refuse to publish anything you don't want to publish. The New York Times, and every other publisher, does it every day.

waccamatt saidIn smaller cities and towns it isn't always easy to find gay-friendly businesses. What if you live in a small town with only one florist? I try and give all of my business to gay-friendly companies, but many people live in areas where that is difficult to do.

Yep, and it was not long ago (historically speaking) when it was difficult to find even in metropolitan areas. I remember in the early 90's, I had friends that wanted to have a commitment ceremony in the suburbs of Los Angeles County. They went through the phone book trying to get a photographer, etc., willing to pay whatever they needed to, and they were not able to get anyone to come. The thought of seeing 2 guys kissing was too much for them.

Lincsbear saidIt`a perennial problem in a democracy that simultaneously values individual conscience and equality before the law.You either have no opting out of serving a customer, or everyone can if they`re offended by a particular belief or practice. Christians might find themselves on the receiving end of this possibility.Could a muslim business refuse to serve a couple if they`re offended by the fact one of them was non-muslim, for example?

Under our law, there is no such entity as a "muslim" (or christian or jewish) "business": that's the point. There are muslim, christian, and jewish "places of worship". They're not businesses, we don't subject them to taxes (or the laws attendant to having a "license" to do....business).

Get that "straight" and the problem goes way.

I meant a business owned/run by someone who happened to be a muslim who saw in customers something that offended their beliefs; just as a married gay couple might offend the beliefs of a Christian who owned/ran a business.Religious people often have highly developed senses of right and wrong and would speak up about it. The possibilities of such a person taking offence and refusing customers could be endless.