66 comments:

You should be afraid because it just proves how stupid the people of Minnesota are. It just proves that anyone can be a Senator. Al Franken as a Senator will be a disaster for Minnesota and for this country. This country really is in a decline now.

The Honduran anti-communist authorities facing invasion by Marxist murderers had better be afraid of this loss of separation of powers in the Democratic Republic to their north that used to stand against communist enslavement in this world until today.

To be absolutely honest, I don't see what the fuss is about. Presuming for a moment that the Dems stay in lockstep (a reasonably safe assumption), and that one (or both) of the Maine Mush-heads (Snowe and Collins) vote with them, Franken's vote was never crucial for a supermajority. This changes very, very little...

What "f1" said! But, Jeez, what this means is that SCOMN is full of mush-heads and that the process of electing judges is terrible, exceeded only by the process of not electing judges. At least MN judges are elected for life, yet!

While there's much talk about splitting California into 3-states, MN needs to be spilt into Mpls/St Paul and then the rest of the state.

Did you see the California Democrat that said Talk show hosts have to be be stopped from terrorizing politicians on the radio. I am sure that Chavez, Castro, and Obama can get enough secret police together to stop such terrorist speech from checking and balancing politicians who need to spend our money.

I can understand why you'd be afraid that the Dems will have even less reason to think about what they are doing, BUT Al Franken is such a goofy buffoon that he will be worth much more to the opposition than he is to the Dems.

And as Krauthammer said, it's nice to have at least one senator who admits to being a comedian.

Both in Honduras, where many conservatives openly support a military coup, and in Minnesota, where they denied the will of the voters, the conservative movement displays their deep-seated hostility to democracy.

In Honduras, where a megalomaniacal leader is ignoring the legislature and Supreme Court and in Iran, where protesters are beaten by their gov't, the modern progressive movement is routinely siding with the powerful against the less powerful.

Seeing the conservative support for a military coup in Honduras, it begs the question if there are conditions where they would welcome a coup in the USA?

I think the answer is yes.

We know the Republicans have politicized the military over the Bush Presidency. They put Republican talk show hosts on armed forces radio, they used troops in campaign events, their religious political allies infiltrated the Air Force Academy with Bush' blessing.

Care to explain how it's a "coup" if the Supreme Court and legislature ordered the military to arrest him and the ex-President's party named a new President?

Here's how: The military used force to remove a democratically elected President in the middle of the night.

That's a "coup."

Would it have been okay for Zelaya to have ordered the military to escort the Supreme Court out of power and the country in the middle of the night? Really?

And, the military follows orders from the Supreme Court? [Do you think before regurgitating this stuff?]

"Check and balance" is too important an issue to dumb down. It does not mean the military is a 4th co-equal branch of government that can remove any of the 3 other branches. Maybe the Honduran Constitution is different. I'd love to see a link to that effect.

And if we run wingnuts against the mishmash Maine senators we will lose Maine which is very blue. The southcoast of Maine, which is where 70% of the population is is basically an extension of Massachusetts. It's also very fabulous.

AL: Both in Honduras, where many conservatives openly support a military coup ....

You really are a Kos troll. If the Honduras Supreme Court finds that a despotic president has violated the law, orders him to stop, he refuses, and, as a result, the military is ordered to arrest him with the support of the Congress and the Attorney General, it is not a coup. Coups are extra-legal.

In this country the federal courts have U.S. Marshalls for enforcement. In Honduras, they use the military (which also carries out the mechanics of national elections).

Moreover, an election is regularly scheduled for November.

Interesting that despite every appearance of legality the lefty clowns here, including the clown-in-chief, have decided that this is a coup.

You lefties don't mind the idea of tin pot despots, if they share your ideology.

lucid said “I can understand why you'd be afraid that the Dems will have even less reason to think about what they are doing, BUT Al Franken is such a goofy buffoon that he will be worth much more to the opposition than he is to the Dems.”

Very true, though he is worse than a goofy buffoon. I think, given Franken’s brutish approach to discussion and his financial improprieties, the Democrats could regret his joining the Senate. This is all the more so considering that Coleman was hardly a right-winger. So in exchange for someone (Coleman) who was probably going to vote with the Dems a sizable minority of the time and is a reasonably classy guy, they have gotten someone who will vote 100 percent of the time and is an overgrown middle school bully. I think it’s only a matter of time before Franken does something completely off the wall. Feinstein, Kerry, Leahy, et al. must just be cringing, dreading the arrival of this monster.

You're the one wiping your ass with democratic principles and you're stupid enough to write that. Right after you voice support for a coup in this country.

You can sit back and support authoritarian regimes conquering countries. Yup, there's never been a case in history of a gov't that warranted removal for violation of the law. None at all. Why, we should've NEVER rebelled...

...you ARE aware we are independent because of beliefs like mine, right?

Here's how: The military used force to remove a democratically elected President in the middle of the night.

The legislature and Supreme Court REQUESTED that they arrest and remove from office the President who was violating the law rather blatantly.

But, hey, as long as he's "elected", huh? Hey, wasn't Ahmedinejad "elected", too? My, shall we go over the leaders, historically, who were "elected" who you'd hate to see deposed.

Man, the apartheid regime of S. Africa should've held out a bit longer. Then they'd have the American Left COMPLETELY supporting them.

And, the military follows orders from the Supreme Court? [Do you think before regurgitating this stuff?]

I'd like to believe that if the legislature and Supreme Court requested that they do so that they'd follow suit.

"Check and balance" is too important an issue to dumb down. It does not mean the military is a 4th co-equal branch of government that can remove any of the 3 other branches. Maybe the Honduran Constitution is different. I'd love to see a link to that effect.

So, basically, make the Courts and legislature impotent since they lack the military might to make the executive do anything.

Truly progressive thought.

A referendum on holding a referendum. That's the dire threat that leads conservatives to toss democracy. Nope. No further options there.

It was ruled as illegal by the Supreme Court and legislature. Man, you used to have puppies over the "Unitary Executive" theory. I guess times have changed.

These two situations are different.

Yes, one had people who supported freedom trying to overthrow a regime while the other had the gov't trying to conquer people.

Shockingly enough, Obama sided with the government violating the law in both cases.

Such meddling is a tactical and strategic question. Affected by histories and how best to advance democracy.

Apparently, ignoring pro-democracy protests promote democracy while supporting a thug trying to ignore the co-equal branches of a government ALSO does so.

Given Franken history of physically attacking people with whom he disagrees, I can visualize Franken attacking another senator! There was a famous incident when Senator Sumner was caned by a Representative from the south. I predict that this time it will be Franken the Northerner attacking another senator. Franken did it in 2004 against another broadcaster's staff. Al is a fool, of course so is ALib.

A referendum cannot be held in Honduras without authorization from their Congress (Title VII, Honduran Constitution). That was exactly the issue giving rise to Zelaya's arrest. He was trying to have a referendum without congressional approval in violation of the constitution to prolong himself in office.

There are comments all over the web from Hondurans trying to set the record straight.

AL wrote: How can a coup be legal if the Supreme Court lacks the authority to give orders to the military?

So by your reasoning, if the military and the police are part of the executive branch and the President is found by the courts to have violated the law, there is no way to arrest him? Interesting.

"Coups" are, by definition, extra-legal. However, if the Honduras Supreme Court affirms that their President violated the law and issues an order for his arrest, how can it be asserted that the arresting authority or the Court acted illegally or extra-legally?

More importantly, how can it be asserted by the President of the United States and his Obots?

Well when Zelaya gets ballots printed and shipped in from Venezuela, for a referendum he is not legally allowed to hold, me thinks the Supreme Court and the legislature might have to do something to check the deliberate violations of law by the President.

The Army apparently confiscated them and then Zelaya used an armed mob to attack and seize the ballots.

Why do you call it a "coup?"

It's exactly what the left wing whackos kept saying Bush was going to do -- and before that the right wing whackos were afraid Clinton would do.

So now someone is doing it and it is okay?

You've lost your marbles.

You may not like the way it was handled, and Zelaya may still end up in a Honduran jail, where he belongs, but my guess is he is plotting with Chavez to move back into Honduras behind a series of "citizen" demonstrations and uprisings funded and orchestrated by Hugo himself.

Methadras said... You should be afraid because it just proves how stupid the people of Minnesota are. It just proves that anyone can be a Senator. Al Franken as a Senator will be a disaster for Minnesota and for this country. This country really is in a decline now."

Ohhh tut tut Methadras. He won. A majority of Minnesotans voted for him so by extension you are calling them all stupid which hardly flies.

he isn't stupid by any means and he worked hard to be elected.

you can disagree but stop with the end of the world crap. it is just hyperbole and very very juvie.

How can a coup be legal if the Supreme Court lacks the authority to give orders to the military?

Can you cite where it is illegal for the Honduran Supreme Court and legislature to have the military do that? Because they don't agree with you, but I bet your knowledge of their laws are better than theirs.

Did you watch his senatorial campaign by chance? If you did, can you please recap for me exactly what his platform was on? If you didn't, then let me sum it up for you. Conservatives bad, Liberals good. He basically trash-talked his way into the Senate. he didn't have a single original idea to bring to the table to deal with Minnesota's issues, but relied heavily on his d-list celebrity status. Afterall, this is a state that voted for a wrestler, but what the fuck am I talking about, we (as in not I) in California voted for an Movie Action Hero.

Yes, the majority of people of Minnesota did vote for him, but they really are the stupid ones and they will get what they voted for. Norm Coleman wasn't exactly the cream of the crop, but he was certainly leagues above Diaper Boy.

If you wanted a trash talking, crass, vulgar leftist piece of ofal that has no idea what he's doing as a type of senator that has little to no worth much less bring any value to the seat, then by all means support Al Franken.

you can disagree but stop with the end of the world crap. it is just hyperbole and very very juvie.

I'm not talking about the end of the world, I'm talking about the end of the United States as we know it in the vein of a radical Marxist change. Something this country isn't set up for or much less wants, but will get nonetheless in no large part to dung-heaps like Franken.