Dynos are tools not penis measuring sticks. If someone is really that curious as to how much whp their car makes. Scale it. Run it. Do the math. There are shops on this board that want to protect their "highest hp status". Personally we could care less. Were a little more along the lines of shut up, lets run. At the end of the day nothing else matters.

To this day I cannot understand the fascination of dyno results.

If car A made x hp/trq before modding or tuning, then was modded and or tuned and made x amount. The delta between the 2 is all that matters. Car "A" picked up 132 hp. YAY! We have progressed forward. Any dyno is going to show the percentage increase similarly.

The boards would be filled with much more useful data if everyone would please stop keyboard drag racing.

I am returning to my hole aka the dyno

See you guys next month or something

Garth

Dynos are a very important part but people struggle with understanding variance and tend to treat them like they are written in stone. Several articles as of late have been on the topic of how easy it is to manipulate the numbers:

Dynos are tools not penis measuring sticks. If someone is really that curious as to how much whp their car makes. Scale it. Run it. Do the math. There are shops on this board that want to protect their "highest hp status". Personally we could care less. Were a little more along the lines of shut up, lets run. At the end of the day nothing else matters.

To this day I cannot understand the fascination of dyno results.

If car A made x hp/trq before modding or tuning, then was modded and or tuned and made x amount. The delta between the 2 is all that matters. Car "A" picked up 132 hp. YAY! We have progressed forward. Any dyno is going to show the percentage increase similarly.

The boards would be filled with much more useful data if everyone would please stop keyboard drag racing.

Dynos are tools not penis measuring sticks. If someone is really that curious as to how much whp their car makes. Scale it. Run it. Do the math. There are shops on this board that want to protect their "highest hp status". Personally we could care less. Were a little more along the lines of shut up, lets run. At the end of the day nothing else matters.

To this day I cannot understand the fascination of dyno results.

If car A made x hp/trq before modding or tuning, then was modded and or tuned and made x amount. The delta between the 2 is all that matters. Car "A" picked up 132 hp. YAY! We have progressed forward. Any dyno is going to show the percentage increase similarly.

The boards would be filled with much more useful data if everyone would please stop keyboard drag racing.

I am returning to my hole aka the dyno

See you guys next month or something

Garth

Garth, I hate it as much as you do but the fact is this world is driven by numbers. Every email I get regarding turbos asks me about WHP WHP WHP. 24WHP / 42 WTQ difference between dyno's when people are so number conscience is actually worth noting. This would bring brens numbers back in line with where we all know they should be on stock turbos. Does it matter one tiny bit in the end. Hell no, but as I said this world is driven by numbers so having a constant device used to measure in my book is important to keep the playing field level.

I can't tell if I'm brilliant compared to the average dyno number chaser or if they're just retarded. Regardless, the difference is there.

This is a tired old argument. Please. You can't tell me that we can figure out how to make a big single turbo work, that Vargas can make damn near 600 whp on ACN91, that we can ceramic coat various parts of the engine for increased thermal efficiency, understanding scavenging and exhaust gas velocity, yet still, in 2013, we (as customers/clients, not speaking to vendors here) don't automatically acknowledge that most dynos read differently, nevermind different dyno types.

We're supposed to not be stupid. That means, we automatically, when seeing a dyno that is generous, apply some factor in our heads to make it "make sense" with whatever we're used to. Likewise, if we see a dyno that's a heartbreaker, we automatically apply a little extra to make it in line with what we would see on whatever we use. We pay attention to deltas and take everything, ever, always, with a grain of salt, because even if it ruffles our feathers, dynos and power measurement are not a perfect science, and are highly dependent upon a massive amount of variables. This does mean that the burden of discernment is on our shoulders, rather than just looking at one number and deciding who is grand champion of the dyno extravaganza.

Below is an excerpt from my uncle, who did engine design for Roger Penske (Indy 500 cars, then Toyota Truck stuff), regarding comparisons:

Comparisons.....well yes, most are a sham, done under poorly controlled conditions and many uncontrolled variables. These challenges exist all the way up to professional, as the details become quite challenging for most companies smaller than GE, for an example. It takes a lot of capital to get the equipment needed.

For example...controlling inlet air temp & humidity during test. I spec'd out an open loop combustion air make-up system for the test cell at Penske. Pull in outside air, chill it (1000 CFM air conditioner), strip out the moisture (during the cooling, condenses out the moisture), inject steam to reach desired dewpoint, and reheat to desired air temp. This allowed us to control inlet temp and humidity to within 1 degree, crucial in an environment where you are looking for 0.5% performance increase. This test kit was a couple hundred thousand dollars (on top of the price of the test cell and equipment, which was about a million). Working over the a very narrow range of turbo boost, and variation in atmospheric pressure was taken care of by the turbo, so we lived with that error.
At Toyota, we installed the same. But then we went into the IRL which was naturally aspirated engines using an airbox and air scoop right above the drivers head. the shape and impact of the airbox was significant, and impacted the fueling across all 8 cylinders. So, we merely installed a 200mph combustion air system, flow rate = enormous, and aim it right in front of the inlet (car cowling and inlet scoop also became part of the dyno set up) to simulate track conditions. That worked well, but cost over $1MM. Just to find the last couple of hp.
I believe very little about reported performance increases due to aftermarket stuff. Not saying they don;t work, but correctly reporting the performance increase is tough.

He's still banned, but we unfortunately never got the chance to run accurately (we did one run 3 wide, but he even said he couldn't hear me honked & jumped just a bit)...

As for the track, I'm placing an order for Conti DWS' to get off my OEM RFTs that have 52k and are desperately in need of being replaced. After they're gone, I'll try to get to Atco and share the results.

It's an E40 blend. The 1M also benefits from having two dimensional fueling tables, so you can further fine tune and juice out a few more ponies.