I need to know whether Guru Gobind Singh Ji was married to one woman or more and why because my husband who is having an affair with another woman had this to say when I confronted him "Even Guru Gobind Singh had married so many times". I don't know how true is this but I need to give him a proper answer and the right answer too.

He also said that how can the bani go into the water to make it amrit....????

Guru Gobind Singh Ji was married only once to a lady named Mata sunder Kaur ji, whose name before marriage was Ajeet or in short Jito Ji.

How can bani go in water?To my mind, as a child I could never understand as to how fragrence/smell gets into water. How does gas get into water to make it aerated drink? How does a small homeopathetic tablet get inside a body through pores in the tongue, gets absorbed in the blood stream and cause a change in the thinking of a person. How can on hearing a bad word, just the sound, cause a change in your behaviour? How can a good word, just the sound, goes straight in your head and change your behaviour? I was never able to understand that when little salt or sugar was added in water, why the volume of water not increase. So many things were not within my understanding as a child. Now, some of them are.

I still cannot understand how sound gets into a tape or CD and gets replayed exactly the same way for years after that. But we all know, it does. I still cannot understand how a picture gets into a camera and comes out on a TV screen or how alphabets get into the keyboard and appear on the sikhnet discussion site. But engineers and scientists understand it all.

Similarly, spiritualists and faithful practioners understand the following things. The sound of Bani can enter directly your mind peircing through your body through sound and cause changes. No body has seen sound of bani piercing through your body and reaching your mind - but what every one sees that you are swaying with the singing of bani and your mind and body feel peaceful and rested. Similarly, bani can enter anywhere, including water and food.

cj wrote:I need to know whether Guru Gobind Singh Ji was married to one woman or more and why because my husband who is having an affair with another woman had this to say when I confronted him "Even Guru Gobind Singh had married so many times". I don't know how true is this but I need to give him a proper answer and the right answer too

cj ji, Thank you for submitting this interesting topic.

I cannot help you directly, but the topic helps me to understand one more situation that leads to suffering, and gives yet more reason why I should work to avoid leaving myself open to it.

In an attempt to try to help you, I would like to ask you to think upon why he shouldn't have had, or anybody else have had, as many partners as he/she wanted to? IMHO this is the root of your suffering.

--------

What I learn from your situation follows, should you or others be interested:

Ideas on what is correct/proper and what is incorrect/improper changes throughout time. These are all perceptions built up by the mind, so are subject to never-ending change. The wole array of preconceptions is like a tensioned bow, with an arrow lined up. When something is met that conflicts with one's belief systems, there is no delay and thought. The arrow is fired, the mind is hit and the only outcome is suffering, anguish and pain. Then comes a whole secondary series of waves of suffering, which can initially lead to yet more suffering due to action of the mind, such as anger, resentment, and hate, as revenge is sought.Sometimes yet more people are hurt whilst these processes take place. Only with time does one accept the outcome, and suffering diminish.

Some get over "bad" events quickly, others take a long time, and others, especially societies, take a very long time indeed. The fact that societies can exist for many generations, means the suffering can also be carried forward, after an individual's lifetime suffering ceases. It is the attachment to perceptions that is carried forward, and this is always susceptible to renewed suffering. When the society ends, all its suffering ends with it. ( setting aside Karma/reincarnation concepts ). We know this for fact as there are no records from more than just a few thousand years ago. Current societies seen in mankind do not see themselves as part of societies of more than about 5000BC at most. If the unknown societies had not ended, they would have handed down history of their suffering, and we would still have knowledge of it, but we don't. Their suffering is not remembered, and so causes no concern to the mind. The preconceptions based on their behaviour has ended.

What does this mean? It provides a basis for thinking about why there are preconceptions (such as someone should have only one partner)Possible reasons might be:

1) Behaviour is passed down through DNA/genes. Successors behave based upon the DNA make up of their parents. However as they mature behaviour evolves as a consequence of parental conditioning, and circumstances. This means behaviour will change as the input changes. This implies an innate "Guru", who is then ignored as circumstances begin to determine behaviour, more than the innate Guru. The circumstances influence the mind more and more, as one matures and the status of the Guru becomes redundant, even though the Guru is very much still there.2)There is another cause, a cause of causes, who determines all behaviour. ie a Godhead or Godheads. 3) There is a combination, with both a cause of causes, and passage of behaviour down through genes, and evolution.

I am surprised by how much your post has caused me to think about Sikhi. It has reinforced my belief that Sikhi is in line with the third option above, with both a Godhead cause of causes, and with an innate Guru created as a consequence of ancestory. As evolution produces "better" equipped life-forms this appears to be partially in line with the concept of karma, as this relies upon an imprint. As life-forms evolve and "improve", so does karma. After birth, then comes conditioning from parents, relatives, peers, environment etc. This conditioning is what Guru Sahiban require Sikhs to remove. Removal will remove attachment, dissolution of self-identity and realignment with the innate Guru. There wil Gurmat instead of Manmat, Gurmukhs instead of Manmukhs. There will be liberation from preconceptions.

if one contemplates upon the Lord's Hukam, and accepts His judgements, the string of the bow will go loose, and the mind will become detached. Realise that nothing that happens is in one's hands, and that the judgement of the Lord is true.

p912:

His justice is always True; how rare are those who accept His Command. || 17 ||

Thank you for your inspirational post.

cj wrote:He also said that how can the bani go into the water to make it amrit....????

This is a completely separate topic; maybe you should resubmit separately

Well, this has been the biggest misconception of people that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had three wives/several wives.... And it is 'Misconception'..... Guru Gobind Singh Ji married Only and Only once to Mata Jito Ji who was renamed as Mata Sundari Ji after marriage as its a Punjabi tradition..... So people take Mata Sundari Ji and Mata Jito Ji as two different people but infact those two were the names for The One and Only wife of Guru Gobind Singh Ji..... Third was Mata Sahib kaur Ji whom Guru Gobind Singh Ji NEVER married.... She lived with Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a Sikh of the Guru.... The reason why some people regarded her as his wife is a different story.... I can tell you about that too if you like to.... So Guru Gobind Singh Ji had only only one wife and all four of his sons(Sahibzadas) were through Mata Sundari Ji only.....

I'm sorry to say this but you Husband is very foolish to have related to Our Dear Guru..... Guru is the Guru and a Sikh is a Sikh.... The person who tries to Take Guru's place or Disgrace his name is not a Sikh.... He is cheat and worst of worst filthy souls.....

Well, this has been the biggest misconception of people that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had three wives/several wives.... And it is 'Misconception'..... Guru Gobind Singh Ji married Only and Only once to Mata Jito Ji who was renamed as Mata Sundari Ji after marriage as its a Punjabi tradition..... So people take Mata Sundari Ji and Mata Jito Ji as two different people but infact those two were the names for The One and Only wife of Guru Gobind Singh Ji.....

Bhaji, you say that this is a tradition in the punjab and you state it as if this is a matter-of-fact thing, if it is such a tradition in the punjab then why do so many people in the Punjab disagree with your theory? If this is such a prevelant thing then how come this "misconception" as you call it, has arisen? If all the punjabies know of this tradition and yet this "misconception" has arisen, how come ? Do they not know of their own traditions ?

Third was Mata Sahib kaur Ji whom Guru Gobind Singh Ji NEVER married.... She lived with Guru Gobind Singh Ji as a Sikh of the Guru.... The reason why some people regarded her as his wife is a different story.... I can tell you about that too if you like to....

I would think through very carefully what you have written here, you obviously have not thought it through.

Who is the mata of the Khalsa ? ................. Mata Sahib Kaur. Yet you state that she never married Guru Sahib Ji ? When Guru Ji put the Khalsa in Mata Sahib Kaurs "cholli" did Guru Ji not realise that she is not married to me ??? If Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the father of the Khalsa and Mata Sahib Kaur Ji is our mother can we really say that they were not married ???

Just to conform to modern western standards people will make up all manner of things.

There are Gurdwaras dedicated to Mata Sundri Ji and there are gurdwaras dedicated to Mata Jito Ji, how come ?If they are the same person how come there are gurdwaras dedicated to both names ?

I remember when I was young asking my mom what her maiden name was, she said Rooprai, I never knew this because once a person is married then she takes on her husbands surname and her previous name is almost forgotten only to be remembered when filling in forms. If as you say they were the same person, then Mata Sundri Ji only became prominent when she wedded Guru Ji and any Gurdwara dedicated to her would only be on Mata Sundri Jis name not on Mata Jito Ji, yet we find there are gurdwaras dedicated to both which concludes that they were infact two persons.

Deepharnji wrote--------How can bani go in water?To my mind, as a child I could neverunderstand as to how fragrence/smellgets into water. How does gas get intowater to make it aerated drink? Howdoes a small homeopathetic tablet getinside a body through pores in thetongue, gets absorbed in the bloodstream and cause a change in thethinking of a person. How can onhearing a bad word, just the sound,cause a change in your behaviour?How can a good word, just the sound,goes straight in your head and changeyour behaviour? I was never able tounderstand that when little salt orsugar was added in water, why thevolume of water not increase. So manythings were not within myunderstanding as a child. Now, some ofthem are.I still cannot understand how soundgets into a tape or CD and getsreplayed exactly the same way foryears after that. But we all know, itdoes. I still cannot understand how apicture gets into a camera and comesout on a TV screen or how alphabetsget into the keyboard and appear onthe sikhnet discussion site. Butengineers and scientists understand itall.Similarly, spiritualists and faithfulpractioners understand the followingthings. The sound of Bani can enterdirectly your mind peircing throughyour body through sound and causechanges. No body has seen sound ofbani piercing through your body andreaching your mind - but what everyone sees that you are swaying with thesinging of bani and your mind andbody feel peaceful and rested.Similarly, bani can enter anywhere,including water and food.Thanks.-----------That is wonderfully said indeed!!!!Satnam Waheguru

Satnam Waheguru

Sewa is a bit extra that we do for the fellow beings and we may call it 'Practical Simran'.

This notion that Mata Sundari ji's premarital name was Jeeto ji is being forced without factual corroboration.

We are certain on the basis of extant hukamnamas written by Mata Sundari ji living in Delhi long after tenth Guru ji that Mata Sundari ji was a person different from Mata Jeeto ji. Mata Jeeto ji died in Anandpur where there exists a Gurdwara Sahib at the place (Agamgarh) where Mata Jeeto ji was cremated.

Let us not get misled by this notion unfortunately being associated with Prof Sahib Singh who otherwise has made a great contribution to Gurbani Grammer and translation. Prof Sahib Singh ji sometimes appears in his writings to be carried astray by his strong enthusiasm for newly acquired western values of Singh Sabha movement (ie gender equality, anti-casteism, ) ignoring the sociological ethos of Guru period in history.

For evidence of this Gurdwara see the link below or Sikhiwiki.www.allaboutsikhs.com/gurudwaras/gurudw ... sahib.htmlBetter still, rather than the websites I would trust more the actual existence of Gurdwara to commemorate the place where Mata ji was cremated or a source such as Mahan Kosh by Bhai Kahan Singh Nabha where the relevant entry is as follows:

Jeeto Mata: Daughter of Harjas Subhikhi Khatri, resident of Lahore, who was married on 23 Harh, sambat 1734 (1677 AD) to Guru Gobind Singh ji at Guru Ka Lahore near Anandpur. Mata ji gave birth to Baba Jujhar Singh, Baba Zorawar Singh ji, and Baba Fateh Singh ji. Mata ji left for heavenly abode on 13 Assu, Sambat 175 at Anandpur. Her Dehura (monument at cremation site) exists at Agampur. Mata ji's correct name was Ajito and after Amrit Sanskar it name was Ajit Kaur.

Mata Sundari ji's father was Bhai Ram Saran a Kumarav Khatri of Bijwara in present Hoshiarpur district and marriage took place oon 4 April 1684.

Mata Sundari lived long after tenth Guru ji as is well known.

I give here another reference regarding Mata jeeto ji's name remaining Jeeto ji till the last moment when she passed away in 1700 AD.

This is from the book 'Guru Kian Sakhian' written by Sarup Singh Kaushish in 1790 and based on the Bhatt Vahis (genaological records kept by Bhatts) he inherited from his Bhatt ancestors. These Bhatt ancestors were those whose writing is included in SGGS. Also among these ancestors were Bhai Mani Singh, Bhai Sati Das and Bhai Mati Das and many other members who laid down their lives for sixth Guru ji in battles and also remained with the subsequent Gurus and were prominent warriors in tenth Guru ji's sikhs. Sarup Singh collected details from these Vahis (genealogical books) that he had with him and even during the twentieth century some of these are now in the possession of Punjabi University Patiala known as Bhatt Vahis.

This book was recently edited and published by Piara Singh Padam in 1986. The relevant quote is from the Sakhi about tenth Guru ji's temporary move to Nirmohgarh leaving Anandpur. From Nirmohgarh Guru ji moved to Bisali at the request of Raja Salahi Chand of Bisali who was devoted to Guru ji. After some time Guru ji came back to Anandpur. So the narrative continues:

Translation:On reaching Anandpur first thing Guru ji did was to get all the forts repaired. As a result of Salahi Chand's efforts peace descended all around. From all around Anadpur Sikh Sangats began arriving. The Rajas accepted Guru ji's superiority. Khalsa rule got established (in villages) around Anandpur. The residents (of villages around Anandpur) breathed a sigh of relief.

During this very year Sambat 1757 (1700 AD) in the month of Poh (Dec-Jan)dated 6 on Thursday Mata Jeet Kuir ji passed away. Satguru ji cremated her near the Agampur village. Next day on 7 Poh Friday the reading of Guru Granth was begun in the name of Mata Kuir ji that was completed on the 17th day, the 22 Poh, Saturday in the afternoon.

If we assume that Mata Sundari was none other than Mata jeeto ji itself whose name was changed at the time of her marriage then there should be no Mata Sundari ji surviving after this date. However, we find her very much alive even 40 yerars later. She was in Dehli during 1730's sending letters to sikhs that re still available as evidence.

Please advise your husband that he is in indulging guru ninda, may be unintentionally. A sikh does not equate himself to his Guru and does not question his Guru's actions. Amrit was administered by Guru sahib in 1699 AD. Sikh history testifies the miracles brought about by this event where a small number khalsa Sikhs defeated and overtook Punjab from traditional warrior race of Moghals and pathans.He should read sikh history before asking such questions.

Having an affair after marriage is quite like stealing.If a person justifies it then it appears like plundering.However marrying twice might be considered similar to earning.I feel this could not be held true for both the sexes due to biological reasons.Moreover social and political structure of war torn regions were different from our times.I feel Sikhism appreciates monogamy but quite silent about earned bigamy(duly married second time).An affair outside married life,perhaps,should not be compared with marriage(even if it is second time).Bhul chuk maaf(Kindly forgive for anything said wrong)Satnam Waheguru

Satnam Waheguru

Sewa is a bit extra that we do for the fellow beings and we may call it 'Practical Simran'.