Leigh - How would Juggernaut do it? He doesn't have explosive power, we don't even know how strong he is. What are his greatest strength feats? KOing people is not a strength feat, nor does it make sense when you do not move very fast.

As I stated, neither should be able to hurt the other with punches. You can make the argument that comic physics isn't in play here and we have to suspend logic but in that case, they have both hurt each other with punches in the comics. In that case, who ever gets the first shot off will probably win

Hulk has stopped Juggs with one shot before, I don't think the reverse is true. Juggernaut is more likely to throw first in a random encounter cos that's what he does - punch first and ask questions later

I know Juggernaut has choked hulk out before. i dont recall either of them KOing each other.

Warhulk doesnt count. And the WWH akido victory also shouldnt count as a victory. i imagine that were not accepting battlefield removal as legit win in this dicussion.

I think its pretty clear that juggernaut hits as hard as any of the top tier. That plus being indestructable and KO proof seems like he would have a greater chance at taking Hulk out than the oppossite.

Prof Hulk has beaten Juggs with a single punch to the gut. Juggernaut KO'd hulk in the swamp (or whatever it was).

Yes, Juggernaut does hit as hard as everyone else in the comics. My point is, you are using real logic to say he shouldn't be hurt by hulk but then on that basis, he shouldn't have KO power either.

Its established in the comics they can both hurt each other with punches. Hulk is probably faster and more agile, Juggernaut is probably more tenacious. Extrapolating anything further from their powersets is futile because it will be contradictory.

"Full power Juggy eats any amount of physical force and keeps coming... it's his central defining characteristic after all. Unimaginative writers have, through the years, cheated us with depowered versions, silly bullshit loopholes and Hulk Akido, but we all know the facts."

This is a weird thing to say when his own creator, in one of his very first appearances, had his forcefield get overloaded and shut off by impact with a turbine, and Juggernaut subsequently getting stunned by a kick from Beast.

there aren't many appearances of Juggs at full power from the last decade, but let us look at one: when Banner was deHulked following the events of Wwh, and wanted to train Skarr to eventually kill him, he suckered Juggs into a fight with Skarr. During the battle, Juggs whooped the tar out of Skarr until, at Banner's insistence he changed tactics and started attacking Juggs in other, indirect ways.

If Juggernaut is as fragile as orcus and others claim, why did Skarr have to use other means to beat him, tricking him into a sucker punch and then eventually using the bullshit ring out tactics Hulk ALWAYS has to use?

Even when Skarr slugs him at full old power strength, hard enough to put him orbit, he was unharmed and only mildly irritated.

When you add up most of his appearances where he wasn't supposed to be Juggernaut light, and factor in what EVERY version of the Marvel handbook has explicitly stated, it becomes obvious that the consensus version of Juggernaut at full strength is supposed to be truly invulnerable, moreso even than other class100 bruisers. If not why go to such lengths to depower him in all those stories? Why not just show him getting his ass kicked and say "well i guess he wasn't as tough as we heard"?

Yes, writers have portrayed him as less than on several occasions, but don't forget that for a long time he was dividing his power between himself and Black Tom, each supposedly "half as strong". After that there were all those "cyttorak is mad at him" stories.... how many of these appearances account for his weak showings?

Some good points but here are counter ones - if you want to appeal to authority with the Marvel Handbook, remember than Stan Lee said Hulk wins. And don't forget Orcus' point about Juggs own creator having his forcefield easily overloaded (I haven't seen it, so don't know the details).

At full power, Thor has beat him down. Thor was actually handicapped, cos he had the Donald Blake curse. Probably a different discussion, as this about Hulk, who's powerset is much similar to Juggs

CharlesLewis - also, what issue is that Blob panel from, I wasn't aware they had ever met...

That was in Uncanny X-Men 463. It was a House of M issue which is why most people don't remember them meeting or fighting before. Also Juggernaut was depowered and not his normal invulnerable self so he was getting beat down by T-Rex and the Marauders so this panel should be taken with a grain of salt.

CharlesLewis - also, what issue is that Blob panel from, I wasn't aware they had ever met...

That was in Uncanny X-Men 463. It was a House of M issue which is why most people don't remember them meeting or fighting before. Also Juggernaut was depowered and not his normal invulnerable self so he was getting beat down by T-Rex and the Marauders so this panel should be taken with a grain of salt.

Hulk getting spanked by Doc Ock was 100% cannon though. Hah!

Hulk wooping Juggernauts ass like 50 times was 100% canon and so was Doc Ock killing the shit out of Spider-Man.

Hulk was thought to be dead and in disguise which is why he was able to get obver on Doc Ock. Would be like some old lady starting a fight with you at the store and dropping you with a punch. Later you find out it was Anderson Silva in drag.

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