Well, if you're not going to do exercise then aim to eat no more than 12-15 calories per lb of your bodyweight. 1 lb of fat takes 3,500 calories to burn, and doing the above you'll be eating 500 calories less than your body needs every day and for 7 days you'll be in a deficit of 3,500 calories = 1lb of fat loss per week.

You can rush this, if you eat too few calories in the hope losing weight quicker your metabolism (amount of calories you burn in a day while being sedentary) will slow down (your body uses a lot of energy to break food down too, so the more often you eat the higher your metabolism) and you will enter starvation mode.

Starvation mode, your body will burn off muscle before it burns off fat because muscle is easier to convert to energy and fat reserves are well, a reserve.

Muscle wasting will occur if you diet without exercise, as exercise (esp weights) create the right environment for fat burning by creating testosterone and growth hormone release - but some wasting will still occur here.

But hey, you admit you're lazy - cardio is boring (in the gym), but weights make you feel good... try it! - or get some dumbbells and try out some exercises at home in front of the TV, 30 mins 3 times a week is all.

Anyway, look to drink lots Green Tea, the chemical EGCG (Epigallocatechin gallate) is a potent fat burning thing - it frees up fatty acids (something that cardio does) or if you don't like green tea just take EGCG in tablet form.

mcmonkeyplc wrote:
As a cavet, if you do lots of weight lifting and have a substantional amount of muscle BMI is a waste of time. It doesn't differentiate between fat and muscle in the weight calculation.

Edit: Damn you woody!

In the gym I work at we don't use bmi as a reference. We use gizmos to calculate body fat and water content as a guide.

Isn't Ephedrine basically Speed but legal? I have enquired about it in the past but always been given the "it'll completely fuck you up" lecture, so have stayed clear. I'm close to an insomniac as it is, rarely getting more than 3-4 hours just cos my body's broken, so to lose that as well would probably kill me.

mcmonkeyplc wrote:
As a cavet, if you do lots of weight lifting and have a substantional amount of muscle BMI is a waste of time. It doesn't differentiate between fat and muscle in the weight calculation.

Edit: Damn you woody!

In the gym I work at we don't use bmi as a reference. We use gizmos to calculate body fat and water content as a guide.

That's what I use at home. It's not exactly the most accurate thing in the world either. Just do some exercise

My legs appear to be slowly turning into almost completely fatless things of surprisingly hard muscle - which is odd, since I'm primarily a desk monkey and my exercise is sporadic - but I still have fat on my waist, the one place I least appreciate it and the one place they keep saying is super dangerous to your health. Damn you body. Damn you to hell!

MetalDog wrote:
My legs appear to be slowly turning into almost completely fatless things of surprisingly hard muscle - which is odd, since I'm primarily a desk monkey and my exercise is sporadic - but I still have fat on my waist, the one place I least appreciate it and the one place they keep saying is super dangerous to your health. Damn you body. Damn you to hell!

Your legs take the weight of the rest of your body though. So they are getting worked out every time you use them.

@MetalDog- I'd suggest you try stomach crunches or something similar. Exercising your midriff is not fun at all though (but it's effective).

My weight has yo-yo'd over the last few years, a recent bout of depression saw me gain about four stone (I hit 15 stone and I'm only a shortarse). My brother, who's a bit of gym nut, talked me into going with him about 6 weeks ago and I enjoy it now. I've reached a point now where I get quite agitated if I miss a session, I'm not sure how much of that is physical and how much is psychological though (having lost and regained a lot of weight in the past, I'm acutely aware of how easy it is for one missed session to turn into two, then three, until I look like Jabba's ugly fat cousin).

65 kg for 181 (my exact height, incidentally) is quite some distance into "comically skinny" country, IMHO. I'm currently at 83 kg which is about 5-6 too many for my liking, but unless you are a midget or competition long distance runner/cyclist, no man should weigh less than 70 kg.

mrpon wrote:
Fuck me that's a skinny target Zom! I'm around the same height and just under 12 stone, as you can see from the Nike+ challenges, it's an optimum weight for me

About 8 years ago when I was 17-18 and at the peak of my physical state (doing 10-15km runs 5 times a week, a few full marathon distances in a tiny bit shy of 3 hours - on a tread, probably couldn't do that time on the road) I was 60-65kg, so I was aiming to get that back, or at least around 70, perhaps a little more than I was before (I was around 4-6% BF, which I was told at the time by my doc and my trainer was too low, but being an overly self-conscious stubborn teenager I didn't listen, I'm hoping eventually to get to 8-10%).

I'm not an especially large build naturally, my shoulders aren't particularly huge, so I can probably afford to be a little lower than you. That said, I have to go past 12 and 11st until I reach my target of 10, so if I reach that and I'm genuinely happy with myself then I'll try to keep that as the sticking point.

I thought ephedrine is now illegal anyways, most fat burners do not have any of it in them anymore. I used to take 'Grenades' for a couple of weeks to shift a pound or two after i bulked up. Just one of those fuckers used to make me feel like i just downed 2 crates of red bull.

But now the revised 'Grenades' have no ephedrine in them and aren't much cop at all, i never used them for the fat burning properties it was always for that extra bit of energy if i had a late night and needed a good weight session but a strong coffee can be just as good.

phAge wrote:
65 kg for 181 (my exact height, incidentally) is quite some distance into "comically skinny" country, IMHO. I'm currently at 83 kg which is about 5-6 too many for my liking, but unless you are a midget or competition long distance runner/cyclist, no man should weigh less than 70 kg.

IMHO, etc. etc.

I find it nigh on impossible to build visible muscle. Even when I was younger and doing loads of weights, despite the muscles obviously improving dramatically as the amount I could lift doubled during my first year at the gym, the actual visible results were next to nil. I can either look thin or fat, toned or ripped just doesn't seem to happen. Given the options, I'd prefer to be thin.

I don't want it to be, which is why I'm not letting the age I was then stopping me from aiming for the same target (some people have told me that getting a possibly-still-slightly-in-puberty teenage body when a good few years into adulthood is impossible, though I've not been told this by anyone who isn't just speculating - anyone here have an official line on it one way or the other? I'm hoping the speculators are all wrong).

mrpon wrote:
Well anecdotally I've read people can still fit into the same clothes they had as a teenager, so yes it is possible.

Problem you'll have though is maintaining it, which is why a more realistic weight is desirable.

As a keen runner you may be able to advise (although you might not've been in the same position):

Currently vastly overweight, very unfit, trying to get back into running. Doing treadmill sessions 4-5 times a week, and not sure what I should be aiming at. I'm trying to do 5k at 10km in half an hour each session, but have only actually reached that target once, usually stopping earlier either because I can feel my eternally dodgy calf going, or my lower back giving me agony (I can't explain this one, it's a new phenomenon), or getting a stitch so bad it's beyond the "just breathe in heavily and try run through it" attitude I try to give them. Most runs I'm managing about 3km, which feels like I'm barely doing anything and is a tad disheartening. Am I aiming too high or do I just need to stop being such a pussy and MTFU and live with the pain?

I'd suggest cutting down your sessions to just 2 or 3 a week, make sure you fully warm up (if I'm at the gym I do 10 minutes warm up walk on the treadmill at 3mph increasing 0.1 every minute). Fully stretch for a couple of minutes, then start your run. Cool down using the same 10 minute approach.

As for distance, 5k is nice target to aim for. I'd try and nail that without wheezing before upping either the distance, speed or the number of sessions a week.

Zomoniac wrote:
Currently vastly overweight, very unfit, trying to get back into running. Doing treadmill sessions 4-5 times a week, and not sure what I should be aiming at. I'm trying to do 5k at 10km in half an hour each session, but have only actually reached that target once, usually stopping earlier either because I can feel my eternally dodgy calf going, or my lower back giving me agony (I can't explain this one, it's a new phenomenon), or getting a stitch so bad it's beyond the "just breathe in heavily and try run through it" attitude I try to give them. Most runs I'm managing about 3km, which feels like I'm barely doing anything and is a tad disheartening. Am I aiming too high or do I just need to stop being such a pussy and MTFU and live with the pain?

Not really the best way to try and build up fitness. I would come off the treadmill and find a decent five or six week run walk training program from someone like Runners World and do some road running.

You're in similar shape to the way I was a few months back (99kg, but 6ft). Down to 92kg now after 7-8 weeks. Started off jogging (well, jogging for a bit and walking til I recovered and then jogging again etc) but I'm starting to look at the diet a bit now too. I used to be fit when I was younger so maybe it is easier to keep it up when you know that you are capable of a lot more than it currently appears.
Anyway, don't bother with ephedrine. I've found that Wii fit is an excellent companion tool for weight loss. I don't really do the exercises but the daily weight measurement and the resulting graph are great reinforcers of willpower (much like the way people with an mpg indicator in their car use much less petrol than those that don't, all other things being equal). I'm not an expert like some on here are but if I were you I'd:

1: One evening, eat half of what you normally do (and cut Coca-cola or equivalents out altogether - if you 'need' a sweet drink find a nice cordial)

2: The next day have a breakfast, lunch, and an evening meal (much reduced again)

3: Weigh yourself on the Wii (repeat 2 & 3 for a few weeks)

4: Go for a walk/run as described above whenever you can. Start at the weekend maybe and add in a midweek one too after a few attempts.

5: Buy some cheap hand weights in Argos or somewhere. Do a small number of repetitions of a few different types of exercise before each breakfast and evening meal (don't push too hard initially, patience and gently increasing the repetitions over the weeks will get you there).

The weight will fall* off.

If you can find someone (friend or girlfriend/wife etc) to do the walk/run with you it increases the chances of you going out. The exercise is the best bit to be honest, you get a gentle buzz after completing it and a more sustained version throughout the day, you think clearer, and have more energy to do things and more concentration to complete them.
Join us, it's bliss.

Nail on head. About a month ago when I started, first or second session and I thought "I remember what weights I used to do, I'll have lost a bit so I'll just go one down, and maybe do a couple less reps". Apparently "one down" should've been "reduce by at least half", couldn't move my arms for the best part of a week, agonising DOMS. I could lift them, just, and do about half my old rep count, but really wished I hadn't. Now down to half what I used to be doing whilst I build up.