I understand the high shoulder shot at long range---the need to incapacitate the animal in its tracks when you probably won't get a chance for a follow up. But why take the shoulder shot at all at close range on a deer or elk? It destroys way too much meat and too often results in bullet failure. Aiming for a "soft spot" in the ribs, right behind the shoulder, takes out both lungs and deer/elk seldom go more than 50 yards, leaving plenty of blood trail, and wasting virtually no meat. Just curious why anyone would take a close range shoulder shot on non-dangerous game if a double lung rib shot is available? I've asked my shoulder-shooting friends that question, and never got a convincing answer.

If you have ever hunted public land and had a trophy animal stolen, you would understand.

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Courage is just fear that has said it's prayers.

The people trying to say the 2nd Amendment is outdated are probably the same folks that would say the same thing about the Bible.

I only hunt public land, and have never had a double lunged animal go more than 50 yards...including a 330 B&C bull Elk. The thought of an animal being stolen if it went 50 yards never crossed my mind. I'd find another place to hunt if that were an issue.

I only hunt public land, and have never had a double lunged animal go more than 50 yards...including a 330 B&C bull Elk. The thought of an animal being stolen if it went 50 yards never crossed my mind. I'd find another place to hunt if that were an issue.

Congratulations, I'm glad you live in a utopia where everybody does the right thing and animals are DRT with every gunshot. Unfortunately most of us live outside that realm and there are ******** everywhere now a days, you are bound to bump into one some day...and crap just happens.
The animal I speak of was a large whitetail I double lunged with a 140 grain Ballistic Tip from a 7mm Rem Mag. Made a good broadside 75 yard shot behind the shoulder while he was after a hot doe (instantly seen the red rose of death). He ran about 200 yards and died next to a road. Did the ole "wait 20 minutes to make sure he was dead" bit and he was picked up buy a passer by. I know this because a blood trail a blind man could follow ended at a huge pool next to the road. The friend I went hunting with had helped the guy load it into a truck. He didn't know it was mine.
I have also lost one that ran a short distance and jumped into a very large creek. It had flooded over and the water was quite speedy. I hit him broadside through the lungs with my 7 mag as well. Same thing, give it a wait and go see. Blood trail ended at the water's edge. I looked up and down both sides all day then again the next.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
I shoot to smash both shoulders and inflict as much damage as possible. I don't care if I loose some meat, the rest will taste better than none at all!

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Courage is just fear that has said it's prayers.

The people trying to say the 2nd Amendment is outdated are probably the same folks that would say the same thing about the Bible.

I really think that this 285 amax has something to offer. And if you only plan on hunting to 1000 yards I would think it would be really good. I would think good or bad it would expand all the time more consistently.
Broz does bring up a point but on the wind. There is a difference between the berger and the amax in the wind. But there is a difference in the toughness of the bullets and being easier to open down range. It is another situation noting is perfect. I cannot and will not say the bergers won't work. Was just hoping for something a little softer to open extreme range. I was talking with big and green yesterday and maybe the best thing for me to do is just finish putting everything together for the 338 snipetac. The answer might just be push the berger harder.

I got the gun from my shooting partner,and when he put it together that's where the load needed to be to match the reticle. Has a Nightforce velocity 600 on it. I'm sure we could pump them out faster, but no need.