What did Pope Francis say about the children of homosexual couples? 8 things to know and share

Has Pope Francis called for a dramatic re-think of the way the Church treats the children of homosexual couples?

Matt Drudge recently linked a story with the headline “Pope calls for fresh Church approach to children of gay parents.”

Does this mean that Pope Francis is insisting on a sweeping revision of the Church’s policy on how to handle such children?

Here are 8 things to know and share . . .

1) What did the news report say?

The original story, published by the Agence Frances-Presse (French Press Agency), stated:

Pope Francis has called for a rethink in the way the Catholic Church deals with the children of gay couples and divorced parents, warning against "administering a vaccine against faith". . . .

"I remember a case in which a sad little girl confessed to her teacher: 'my mother's girlfriend doesn't love me'," he was quoted as saying.

The pontiff said educational leaders should ask themselves "how can we proclaim Christ to a generation that is changing?" . . .

Though the Church has often been in conflict with the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community over its opposition to same-sex marriage and to homosexuality, Francis has drawn praise for attempts to be inclusive.

This—together with the headline the story ran under—seeks to convey the impression of some kind of dramatic change in regard to the Church’s pastoral practice concerning the children being raised by homosexual couples.

2) What is the story quoting from?

It’s quoting from a 3-hour discussion that Pope Francis had with the Union of Superiors General of religious men about religious life.

The discussion was held back in November, but an extensive account of it was only published recently by the Jesuit journal La Civila Cattolica.

It is not on the Vatican web site at the time of this writing, and may not be published there as it was an informal discussion.

The piece that has been published—authored by Antonio Spadaro, S.J.—is not a transcript of the interview but a narrative summary of the event with substantial quotations from Pope Francis.

Because it is not a true transcript, it must be approached with some caution.

3) What does it say Pope Francis said regarding the children of homosexual couples?

He does not have a section devoted to this subject. He makes only brief reference to it in the context of a larger discussion of Christian education.

According to Spadaro:

The pillars of education according to the Pope are:

"convey understanding, convey ways of doing things, convey values. Faith is conveyed through these. The educator should be up to being a person who educates, he or she should consider how to proclaim Jesus Christ to a generation that is changing."

He insisted, therefore:

"Education today is a key, key, key mission!"

And he recalled some of his experiences in Buenos Aires regarding the preparation necessary to welcome children in an educational context, little boys and girls, young adults who live in complex situations, especially family ones:

"I remember the case of a very sad little girl who finally confided to her teacher the reason for her state of mind: 'my mother's fiancé doesn't like me.'

The percentage of children studying in schools who have separated parents is very high.

The situation in which we live now provides on with new challenges which sometimes are difficult for us to understand.

How can we proclaim Christ to these boys and girls? How can we proclaim Christ to a generation that is changing?

We must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them.”

4) This translation has “my mother’s fiancé,” not “my mother’s girlfriend.” Could that indicate he’s talking about a heterosexual couple?

The AFP story used the translation, “my mother’s girlfriend,” as we saw above.

The English translation we are quoting from here was produced by Fr. Donald Maldari, S.J., who used the term fiancé.

If the translation “fiancé” (a man engaged to be married) were correct, Pope Francis would be referring to the daughter of a woman who is planning marriage with a man (presumably after divorce, annulment, or widowhood).

If the translation “girlfriend” is correct, it would indicate the daughter of a woman who has a lesbian lover.

The Italian original has “la fidanzata,” which is feminine, as indicated by the “la” form of the definite article and the “-a” ending.

The masculine form for fiancé would be “il fidanzato.”

While “la fidanzata” does literally mean fiancée (a woman engaged to be married), it may have a broader, slang meaning that includes “girlfriend,” for this is given as a meaning in some sources (e.g., Google Translate).

Either way, Pope Francis is referring to a girl whose mother is in a homosexual relationship.

5) Is the Pope calling for a dramatic re-think of how the Church deals with the children of homosexual couples?

It doesn’t look like it to me.

He’s certainly calling for people to devote thought to the question of how the Faith and authentic Christian values can be imparted to the children of this generation, which finds itself in a very different position socially than previous generations.

As examples of how its situation is different he mentions the case of the girl whose mother was in a lesbian relationship and the fact that many children have parents who are separated.

But society in general has many situations in which there are new challenges to presenting the Gospel to people.

So while Pope Francis is calling for additional thought to be devoted to the question of how to Evangelize children in unusual family situations—as well as everyone else in society—it does not appear he’s calling for anything as dramatic as the headlines might make you think.

6) He’s not suggesting that the Church should change its teachings on homosexuality or divorce?

No. He’s talking about how to present the Church’s teaching to children in a way that ultimately leads them to embrace the fullness of Christian teaching.

He’s not talking about lopping of bits of that teaching that are inconvenient in a modern setting.

Because many children have parents today that are publicly living in unions contrary to Christian teaching, there is a real problem in terms of how to communicate Christian teaching to them in a way that does not alienate them from the Church.

This is what he means when he says: “We must be careful not to administer a vaccine against faith to them.”

7) How do we do that?

Good question!

That’s precisely what he’s saying educators should devote thought to.

And it’s a tricky question.

When parents or guardians are living in a situation that publicly contradicts Christian teaching, it creates a very difficult problem of how to communicate the fullness of Christian truth to them without putting them in a situation where they must choose between their parents and the Faith and end up turning against the Faith.

Pope Francis is not proposing a concrete solution here (and the best solution will depend on the individual child, his living circumstances, and his age and level of intellectual and theological maturity), but he is stressing the need to think about the question.

8) So he’s not calling for a sweeping policy change?

No. It’s also not like the Church has a written policy on how these situations are to be handled.

If you look in the Code of Canon Law, you won’t find a section titled “Handling Children of Divorced or Homsexual Couples: A Step-By-Step Guide.”

Education is too complex for a single, one-size-fits-all policy.

The Church has always relied on educators and pastors to figure out the best way to present Christian teaching to children.

The goal is to get them to embrace the fullness of Christian teaching—including its teachings on marriage and sexuality—but who gets taught what, when, and how is a different question.

Even Jesus told the apostles:

“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now” [John 16:12].

Rather than proposing sweeping revisions to a non-existent policy, Pope Francis is urging educators to think about the best way to bring children to accept Christ and his teachings.

Comments

We must teach and preach the TRUTH regardless of whom will not like the statements.
We must not water down the TRUTH.
We must not tolerate sin, because someone’s feelings may be hurt.
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CCC: ” 1759 An evil action cannot be justified by reference to a good intention” (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, Dec. praec. 6). The end does not justify the means.”

Posted by ANNE on Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 1:39 PM (EDT):

To clarify everything the Pope says in advance, study the “CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, Second Edition” in entirety.
The CCC states the truth about our Faith.
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Pope Francis has stated: “The Church never takes faith for granted, but knows that this gift of God needs to be nourished and reinforced so that it can continue to guide her pilgrim way.”….. “Read in this light, the prophetic text leads to one conclusion: we need knowledge, we need truth, because without these we cannot stand firm, we cannot move forward. Faith without truth does not save, it does not provide a sure footing.”….. “These, then, are the four elements which comprise the storehouse of memory which the Church hands down: the profession of faith, the celebration of the sacraments, the path of the ten commandments, and prayer.
The Church’s catechesis has traditionally been structured around these four elements; this includes the CATECHISM of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, which is a fundamental aid for that unitary act with which the Church communicates the entire content of her faith: “all that she herself is, and all that she believes”. “ - Pope Francis (Encyclical Letter LUMEN FIDEI, 2013)
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For more info on the CCC go to: “What Catholics REALLY Believe SOURCE”.
http://whatcatholicsreallybelieve.com/
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In this day and age with all the errors, heresy, schismatics, relativism and secularism even within the Church - don’t believe anything that is not in the Bible or the CCC. (The CCC contains the Doctrine of the Faith, and footnotes to Scripture passages and Church documents as appropriate.)

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 20, 2014 10:29 AM (EDT):

Ben: Untrue. Read the “Who am I too judge” quote in context there is no way any logical person can take that to be an endorsement of the gay lifestyle.
Me: No it is certainly not an endorsement of the gay lifestyle. I never said it is either. But his exact words were ““A gay person who is seeking God, who is of good will—well, who am I to judge him?”. The problem with this statement is that if “actively seeking God” can mean so many things. Gays have made Christ a homosexual. If that is the kind of God they are following then that is very, very problematic. There are many very actively gay people who claim to be seeking God and who – if you read the comments of pro-gay heterosexuals in forums - are of good will. I would say that a majority of gays believe in a happy clappy kind of God – you know the kind – “inclusive” and will affirm your worst behaviour in the name of “love”.
Ben: You have a clear double standard. You give Benedict a pass yet hold Francis’ feet to the fire?
Me: No Ben. It is not a double standard because the context of that statement is in the text ITSELF. You do not have to dig up the context from something he has written or said years ago. The whole statement is contextualized within the same paragraph.
For the Pope Francis’s statement to be similar, there should have been something like this added to it: So what do I mean here by someone seeking God? Firstly, that the homosexual person recognizes that what he is doing is a sin and contrary to God’s revelation in the nature of things. Through weakness he may fall often but so long as he repents however many times, he falls and strives to lead a life of chastity then who I to judge. I cannot see his efforts. I cannot know the amount of grace that God has given him in his fight against this evil But first there must be a recognition that this is evil and a sincere desire to follow God’s call to chastity.
Something like that would have made a big difference and it would have taken him only a few seconds to say it.
Ben: When someone like Akin shows Francis’ words in context then it is “spin”?
Me: No it isn’t spin. But the fact that it takes someone like Akin and other apologist to have to dig up his past pronouncements to find out where he really stands on this is the problem. Let’s suppose that whatever he said about homosexuality when he was an Archbishop was never put on record. Based on the interview alone, his thoughts can mean a kind of relativized conscience. In fact, this relativized conscience came out as well in his interview with Scalfari.
Ben: People who care will do the research.
Me: And that of itself is the problem. That to get context on an interview, one has to do the research.
Ben: Pell has criticized Benedict. Kaspar has & so has Schönborn. Paul criticized Peter. Cardinals criticize Popes.
Me: Criticisms of Popes are all far for the course when they have grounds. If he criticized Benedict because Benedict really meant what Francis thought he meant that is more than fair. But the problem was, it could all have been avoided if he had actually read the text before shooting from the mouth – if he had paused and thought: “Hhmm, did he really say that? Let me check that out first.”
Ben: Besides the source of report on Francis criticizing Benedict was Horatio Verbitsky the Socialist reporter who wrote a book falsely accusing him of turning two Priests over to the Right Argentine gov(one of the Priests still living refuted that charge and vindicated Francis). That is like criticizing Pius XII citing Rolf Hochhuth! Sorry no.
Me: So are you saying that the criticism never happened?

Ben: You are ignoring the greater point. No matter what the Pope says it’s heads the Media wins & tails the Pope Benedict or Francis looses. It’s not like Benedict is always clear. Ratzinger’s book on Genesis doesn’t spell out wither or not Adam was a real historical figure from whom we actually descend. I don’t think Benedict denies that but you could not tell from his book if he affirms it.
Me: No Ben. That’s not it at all. We as simply hoping that the Pope would stop just firing without thinking it over well. He really needs to pause and think of the implications of what he says. He is not just any priest – he is the Pope.
Ben: Which “Catholic” media? Apart from Carl Olsen & a handful of others mostly it’s lunatic radrads like the Remnant who !@#$% & others who are SSPX sympathizers. They are not Catholic my friend. They are idiots.
Me: You think that labelling someone a radtrad will get you out of addressing precisely what they criticized?
Ben: Your argument fails since you rightly conclude Benedict said nothing improper but the Media doesn’t care & Catholics are still confused.
Me: Not if you actually go back to the original text. The Pope had a chance to clarify but he didn’t. As I said before, when he’s clear he is simply brilliant. But sometimes he is not clear and it is disastrous. We are not bagging him for the sake of bagging him.
Ben: BTW the handful of theologically ambiguous statements from Francis (Iwasdeceved, Jesus pretended to be angry etc) are ignored by the media & if you survey 100 Catholics in my diocese they haven’t even heard of them much less are confused by them. Those you only hear from Radtrad detractors who go hunting for them.
Me: What, people in your diocese don’t read the newspaper or watch TV? It’s all over the MSM so how can you escape it?

Ben: So I find your argument meaningless and flawed.
Me: Saying that is senseless. It is a truly useless statement. Who care whether you find it flawed considering you haven’t exactly shown that it is flawed.
Ben: Yeh Bergoglio less than four years ago was at bloody war with the Socialist Feminist President of his country over Gay marriage, Abortion and Gay adoption.
Me: Exactly! If he could enunciate it then, what has changed? Why could he not enunciate it now? Why attack those who are talking about it?
Ben: Calling those movements the work of the Prince of Lies (which they are). To believe he has done a 180 in so short a time & is now Archbishop Weakland in white strains credulity.
Me: Goodness, you really are given over to theatrics. No one has accused him of being a Weakland. When you start talking like that, I hope you realize that that shows that you are starting to lose it.

Posted by cpola on Saturday, Jan 18, 2014 7:26 AM (EDT):

May He send true Shepherds to watch over them, even as they watch over us.

Posted by cpola on Saturday, Jan 18, 2014 7:24 AM (EDT):

Let us pray
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We thank God for the numerous priests who are faithful to their vocation, may God reward them with the wonderful things He has prepared for them before the foundation of the world.

Posted by cpola on Saturday, Jan 18, 2014 7:22 AM (EDT):

Let us pray
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We thank God for the numerous priests who are faithful to their vocation, may God reward them the wonderful things He has prepared for them before the foundation of the world.

Posted by Ross on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 8:48 PM (EDT):

In 2001, a year before the pedophilia crisis hit the news, the National Catholic Reporter analyzed internal church reports written by two Catholic nuns—a physician who was a Medical Missionary of Mary and the AIDS coordinator for the Catholic Fund for Overseas Development—documenting the sexual exploitation of nuns by priests in 23 countries on five continents.

One of the most stunning allegations concerned a nun impregnated by a priest who forced her to have an abortion; she died from complications, and he officiated at her funeral. Priests were also alleged to have raped young nuns who approached them for the required certificates to enter religious orders; to have told nuns that oral contraceptives would protect them from AIDS; and to have used nuns as “safe” alternatives to prostitutes in countries plagued by AIDS—with some priests going so far as to demand that heads of convents make the nuns sexually available to them.

And it is not just nuns, of course. As in the recently reported case of a priest who allegedly molested a 14-year-old Minnesota girl and was not defrocked but simply transferred to a parish in India (after the Vatican supposedly toughened up its policies), thousands of girls, from infants to adolescents, have been molested by priests. Adult Catholic women have been subject to clerical transgressions that range from sexual exploitation to harassment to rape to beatings to potentially negligent homicide. Many sexually active priests have left a trail of wounded women and fatherless progeny in their wake—testament to the hypocrisy of a “celibate” priesthood.

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 6:14 PM (EDT):

@Marcus

You may have the last word because I don’t think there is much more for me to say.

Cheers.

Posted by cpola on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 4:04 PM (EDT):

what about if a priest is gay and has NO goodwill and is NOT seeking the Lord? What happens then?
As a popular catholic TV internet outlet reported some days ago, a certain diocese in the USA had a Christmas party in which the majority of priests attending came along with their sexually active boyfriends.
what then?

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 1:44 PM (EDT):

We live in the age of the Tyranny of the Internet. I bet dollars to Donuts if past Popes lived under the 24 hour news cycle and near instantaneous reporting and social Media that would shatter any illusions that they where somehow more precise or clearer teachers then we imagine them to be.

It started under John Paul II, grew exponentially under Benedict XVI and now has exploded under Francis.

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 1:36 PM (EDT):

>>Benedict had to be defended from a devil media who interpreted his lifting of the Excommunication of the SSPX bishops as a tactile endorsement of Williamson’s flaky holocaust denying views.

>Me: No he didn’t have to be. He was not saying anything there that was in the least bit seemingly contrary to the faith.

Of course he didn’t do or say anything contrary to the Faith. But the media still tried to associate him & by extension the Church with holocaust denial.

Schönborn is not liberal he is the same type of German Catholic conservative that is embodied in Benedict.

BTW I am not critizing Benedict. I am defending my Father & my other Father.

Just like you.

But I still find most criticisms of Francis tedious.

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 17, 2014 1:30 PM (EDT):

>And there is the difference with Pope Benedict. You can go right to the interview and see that the misrepresentation is precisely that – a misrepresentation. If you read the interview where they selectively plucked that small pharse, you will realize that they twisted it to their own purposes. Right there is the context. You don’t get that with Pope Francis.

Untrue. Read the “Who am I too judge” quote in context there is no way any logical person can take that to be an endorsement of the gay
lifestyle.

>And that one too there was no gaff. Because if you read the entire text, he was not saying it himself.

You have a clear double standard. You give Benedict a pass yet hold Francis’ feet to the fire? When someone like Akin shows Francis’ words in context then it is “spin”? People who care will do the research. Slaves who mindlessly obey the media will not & clear or ambiguous whatever the Pope says the Media will lie and Spin for their own dark purposes.

>In fact, that is what is so disappointing with Bergoglio because when he read that he criticised Pope Benedict without even bothering to actually read the text.

Pell has criticized Benedict. Kaspar has & so has Schönborn. Paul criticized Peter. Cardinals criticize Popes. Besides the source of report on Francis criticizing Benedict was Horatio Verbitsky the Socialist reporter who wrote a book falsely accusing him of turning two Priests over to the Right Argentine gov(one of the Priests still living refuted that charge and vindicated Francis). That is like criticizing Pius XII citing Rolf Hochhuth! Sorry no.

>No he didn’t have to be. He was not saying anything there that was in the least bit seemingly contrary to the faith.

You are ignoring the greater point. No matter what the Pope says it’s heads the Media wins & tails the Pope Benedict or Francis looses. It’s not like Benedict is always clear. Ratzinger’s book on Genesis doesn’t spell out wither or not Adam was a real historical figure from whom we actually descend. I don’t think Benedict denies that but you could not tell from his book if he affirms it.

>And there is the problem with Pope Francis because the Catholic Media itself finds his utterances problematic.

Which “Catholic” media? Apart from Carl Olsen & a handful of others mostly it’s lunatic radrads like the Remnant who bitch & others who are SSPX sympathizers. They are not Catholic my friend. They are idiots.

>But that is exactly my point. IF you read the interview, even in context, that is exactly what it says. That could have been avoided if he had spoken more plainly and with clarity.

Your argument fails since you rightly conclude Benedict said nothing improper but the Media doesn’t care & Catholics are still confused. BTW the handful of theologically ambiguous statements from Francis (Iwasdeceved, Jesus pretended to be angry etc) are ignored by the media & if you survey 100 Catholics in my diocese they haven’t even heard of them much less are confused by them. Those you only hear from Radtrad detractors who go hunting for them.

So I find your argument meaningless and flawed.

>Or at least you hope so. You don’t know that that is exactly how it will pan out.

Yeh Bergoglio less than four years ago was at bloody war with the Socialist Feminist President of his country over Gay marriage, Abortion and Gay adoption. Calling those movements the work of the Prince of Lies (which they are). To believe he has done a 180 in so short a time & is now Archbishop Weakland in white strains credulity.

Anyway to sum up since I am not interested in your defenses of Benedict (since I don’t condemn Benedict or criticize him anymore than Francis so they are irrelevant to me). The Media will always lie and the dull among us will always believe them no matter if the Pope is clear or ambiguous. Francis is no better or worst than Benedict. Cut him at least as much slack as you do Benedict & I won’t complain.

Cheers & God Bless.

Posted by Marcus on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 10:48 PM (EDT):

Ben: I put people who charge the Pope with heresy in the same category as Obama Birth’ers, 911 Truthers, people who believe in the Grassy Knoll, and Roswell conspiracy persons.
Me: I never said the Pope is a heretic. What I said is that just because one is a member of a religious order does not guarantee that one cannot espouse heretical teaching. It has happened before. There are some Jesuits, Benedictines , Dominicans and Franciscans who teach heretical doctrines. The problem was with your argument that Jesuits must be all okay because it is a valid order. That’s got nothing to do with it.
Ben: It’s absurd without evidence I can’t believe such tosh. I am sorry I can’t. I am too hardcore in my philosophical realism to be any different.
Me: You should read what I wrote a little bit better before you reply because I never said what you claim I said.
Ben: I read his commentaries on Scriptures & Genesis and I know Ratzinger’s views where enough to make your average Young Earth Creationist type vetch. Also his endorsements of modern Biblical Scholarship methods have given certain Trad friends of mine a headache but I naturally have no problem with it.
Me: Benedict is super brilliant. What do we care about what the average YoungEarthg Creationist think? As for endorsing modern Biblical Scholarship methods, he in fact criticised the Histori-Critical method in the introduction to Jesus of Nazareth. Get a copy of Salt of the Earth.
Ben: Peace to you.
Me: Peace of Christ be to you as well.

Posted by Marcus on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 10:39 PM (EDT):

Ben: It was unkind and I apologized for that but to date the majority of criticisms I read about Francis are worthless and un-intelligent. Only a handful are meaningful & the rest are trash.
Me: Perhaps and perhaps not. I for my part have read mostly intelligent criticisms. Of course you will get those foaming at the mouth sedevacantists and the like, but a majority of those who criticise his interviews and some of the things that he has done are right on the money.

Ben: Meaningless! Pope Benedict said a Male Prostitute who uses a condom to keep from spreading AIDS shows the beginning of a moral conscience and concern for others. The Usual Suspects misused that statement to claim His Holiness was endorsing Condom distribution, contraception and homosexuality.
Me: And there is the difference with Pope Benedict. You can go right to the interview and see that the misrepresentation is precisely that – a misrepresentation. If you read the interview where they selectively plucked that small pharse, you will realize that they twisted it to their own purposes. Right there is the context. You don’t get that with Pope Francis.
Ben Benedict who you claim is more clear had to be defended for this and other “gaffs” like the Muhammed nonsense that lead to riots and the death of an Orthodox Priest and Nuns.
Me: And that one too there was no gaff. Because if you read the entire text, he was not saying it himself. He was in fact just quoting a source. In fact, that is what is so disappointing with Bergoglio because when he read that he criticised Pope Benedict without even bothering to actually read the text. You see the context was right there in the text. You did not need to dig up years old utterances just to put it in context.
Ben: Benedict had to be defended from a devil media who interpreted his lifting of the Excommunication of the SSPX bishops as a tactile endorsement of Williamson’s flaky holocaust denying views.
Me: No he didn’t have to be. He was not saying anything there that was in the least bit seemingly contrary to the faith.
Ben: So with all due respect I find your argument completely un-moving.
Me: Whether you are moved or not is totally irrelevant to our discussion. I am not writing this to move you but to highlight the errors in your arguments.
Ben: Sorry but all the empirical evidence and my experience with the last Pope tell me the Media like Doctor Who lies. If the Pope mis-speaks then it is our duty to read him and explain him in the most charitable light & excuse him. But if he doesn’t the media will still lie.
Me: And there is the problem with Pope Francis because the Catholic Media itself finds his utterances problematic. I am not saying that all he says is problematic. When he is good, he is brilliant. But when he is vague and ambiguous, it is disastrous.
Ben: I’ve done it with JP2 & B16 so Francis is no challenge. I defend my Father.
Me: I defend Pope Francis too when he is clear but not when he is leading others astray.
Ben: Marcus he said no such thing about Abortion being “small minded rules” that is just your spin not the Pope’s words.
Me: But that is exactly my point. IF you read the interview, even in context, that is exactly what it says. That could have been avoided if he had spoken more plainly and with clarity.
Ben: What about the young man who continues to sell his body to perverts because he erroneously thinks “The Pope said it’s alright as long as I use a condom!”.
Me: If you read the full text of the interview, you will not get that out of it. You see, this is just my point. When Benedict speaks, he explains the nuances. He doesn’t just shoot from the mouth. If the media misinterprets what he says by plucking a phrase, you can always go back to the original document and say it doesn’t quite say that.
Ben: Then there is the dead Orthodox Priest(mind you I don’t blame Benedict if he knew the mod would react that way he would have pulled a Pius XII and kept silence so as not to provoke evil to do more damage) & the Jews who are deceived into thinking he is a Nazi.
Me: It’s totally stupid to bring that into the discussion because that came up not through something that he said. If people thought he was a Nazi, that misinformation has no impact at all on Church teaching.
Ben: It is a mess and it will always be one. Always.
Me: It doesn’t have to be. Some of the mess could be avoided. But since Pope Francis wants us to make a mess, then there it is. It could be avoided if someone will just think first before responding.

Ben: Which simply means the liberal media trash will soon shout “Give us Barabbas!”
Me: Or at least you hope so. You don’t know that that is exactly how it will pan out.
Ben: It doesn’t mean he is on their side. That should be obvious.
Me: Not obvious enough it seems or there would not be this much need to explain what he says. If it is so obvious, you would not have to do what you are doing now.

Posted by BenYachov on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 4:55 PM (EDT):

@Rubble

God be with you & I wish you well.

You too Marcus & others.

Posted by BenYachov on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 4:54 PM (EDT):

@Marcus

>Whether the Jesuit order is a valid order or not is beside the point. There are Jesuits who are borderline heretics.

I put people who charge the Pope with heresy in the same category as Obama Birth’ers, 911 Truthers, people who believe in the Grassy Knoll, and Roswell conspiracy persons.

It’s absurd without evidence I can’t believe such tosh. I am sorry I can’t. I am too hardcore in my philosophical realism to be any different.

>I don’t know if you have ever read any of Pope Benedict’s interviews. If you haven’t then I suggest you read one of them. The Ratzinger Report is great but so is Salt of the Earth and so is Light of the World. We need that kind of clarity from the highest teaching office. Otherwise, just don’t give interviews.

I read his commentaries on Scriptures & Genesis and I know Ratzinger’s views where enough to make your average Young Earth Creationist type vetch. Also his endorsements of modern Biblical Scholarship methods have given certain Trad friends of mine a headache but I naturally have no problem with it.

Pope Francis has a different style so I roll with it.

Peace to you.

Posted by BenYachov on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 4:43 PM (EDT):

@Marcus

>Well Ben, I do hope that you realize that that comment speaks so much more negatively about you than the MORONS you deride. In fact, that statement is not just moronic it is reeking of hubris.

It was unkind and I apologized for that but to date the majority of criticisms I read about Francis are worthless and un-intelligent. Only a handful are meaningful & the rest are trash.

>Those who lodged the gay-adoption bill in Malta used the Pope’s very words to justify their bill.

Meaningless! Pope Benedict said a Male Prostitute who uses a condom to keep from spreading AIDS shows the beginning of a moral conscience and concern for others. The Usual Suspects misused that statement to claim His Holiness was endorsing Condom distribution, contraception and homosexuality. He was saying no such thing but the Pope is not responsible for the fact the Devil and his minions in the Media lie without shame. Benedict who you claim is more clear had to be defended for this and other “gaffs” like the Muhammed nonsense that lead to riots and the death of an Orthodox Priest and Nuns. Benedict had to be defended from a devil media who interpreted his lifting of the Excommunication of the SSPX bishops as a tactile endorsement of Williamson’s flaky holocaust denying views.

So with all due respect I find your argument completely un-moving.

>Perhaps so, but perhaps not. What we do know at the moment is that by lack of clarity and ill choice of words he has done a fair bit of damage. As I said earlier, I hope this is just naivete and that hopefully, having seen the chaos he has created, he will think more before he speaks.

Sorry but all the empirical evidence and my experience with the last Pope tell me the Media like Doctor Who lies. If the Pope mis-speaks then it is our duty to read him and explain him in the most charitable light & excuse him. But if he doesn’t the media will still lie.

I’ve done it with JP2 & B16 so Francis is no challenge. I defend my Father.

>Do you really think that it is not a big deal that some abortionist somewhere maybe swaying a hesitant Catholic towards killing her own child because the Pope thinks these are just small minded rules?

Marcus he said no such thing about Abortion being “small minded rules” that is just your spin not the Pope’s words. What about the young man who continues to sell his body to perverts because he erroneously thinks “The Pope said it’s alright as long as I use a condom!”. Then there is the dead Orthodox Priest(mind you I don’t blame Benedict if he knew the mod would react that way he would have pulled a Pius XII and kept silence so as not to provoke evil to do more damage) & the Jews who are deceived into thinking he is a Nazi. It is a mess and it will always be one. Always.

>Jesus said that his followers will be hated by the world just as the world hated Him. When the world embraces you, then that is a worry.

Which simply means the liberal media trash will soon shout “Give us Barabbas!” It doesn’t mean he is on their side. That should be obvious.

Posted by Marcus on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 7:09 AM (EDT):

BenYachov, I don’t know if you have ever read any of Pope Benedict’s interviews. If you haven’t then I suggest you read one of them. The Ratzinger Report is great but so is Salt of the Earth and so is Light of the World. We need that kind of clarity from the highest teaching office. Otherwise, just don’t give interviews.

Posted by Marcus on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 6:26 AM (EDT):

BenYachov:One must simply learn to think like a Jesuit. They are a legitimate
Order and their Theology and method is acceptable via the instructions of Pope Paul V.

Me: Whether the Jesuit order is a valid order or not is beside the point. There are Jesuits who are borderline heretics. Just because one belongs to an order does not mean that what one says is kosher. There are heretical Franciscans and Dominicans.

Every religious utterance is to measured against the teaching of the Church.

I love St Ignatius of Loyola and there are some Jesuits out there who have betrayed the very ethos of Ignatius.

Posted by Marcus on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 6:21 AM (EDT):

BenYachov: Big deal! The same people hailing him today will soon shout “Away with Him! GIVE US BARABBAS!!” when gay marriage & woman Priests fail to become a reality in the Church.
Me: Yes, Ben, it is a big deal. How can it not be? The rebellious are rejoicing and those who have been toiling in the vineyard of the Lord are dejected for being told that they are being small minded. When these people go to evangelize they are told that the Pope said we should not be concerned about these things anymore.
Those who lodged the gay-adoption bill in Malta used the Pope’s very words to justify their bill.
It is a big deal because people are being led along the wrong path! Many homosexuals and pro-abortion mob are influencing others to their mindset and they have the Pope’s words to shore up their decrepit moral system. People are being led along the path of the father of lies because of ill chosen words. He is the Pope. He is not just some priest in some corner of the world. He is the Pope, the one who is supposed to uphold Catholic doctrine and yet in such a short span he has created so much confusion such that bishops and apologists are in mad scramble at damage control.\
**
BenYachov: His current popularity with the “usual suspects” who are trying to make Pope Francis in the image of their John XXIV fantasy are no different then the First Century Jewish Zealots who wanted a political Messiah who would crush Rome & instead got Our Lord who would rather crush Satan and his kingdom.
Me: Perhaps so, but perhaps not. What we do know at the moment is that by lack of clarity and ill choice of words he has done a fair bit of damage. As I said earlier, I hope this is just naivete and that hopefully, having seen the chaos he has created, he will think more before he speaks.
**
BenYachov: The bottom line is the majority of “conservative” and “traditionalist” critics of the Holy Father I’ve seen thus far ARE MORONS!
Me: Well Ben, I do hope that you realize that that comment speaks so much more negatively about you than the MORONS you deride. In fact, that statement is not just moronic it is reeking of hubris.
**
BenYachov: Even if the Pope is not clear sometimes the reaction to it is way out of proportion to reason or charity or respectful obedience.
Me: Over reaction? You think it is an over-reaction when the pro-abortion mob are proclaiming loud and clear their approval of him and the homosexual mob have just crowned him Person of the Year? You think that is not a concern? Do you really think that they are not hearing exactly what we are afraid they are hearing? Do you think it is not to worry that some homosexual somewhere who may perhaps be teethering between becoming actively homosexual and remaining chaste will not be emboldened by the Popes words or maybe swayed by those who perceive his words to be an approval? Do you really think that it is not a big deal that some abortionist somewhere maybe swaying a hesitant Catholic towards killing her own child because the Pope thinks these are just small minded rules?
Jesus said that his followers will be hated by the world just as the world hated Him. When the world embraces you, then that is a worry.
BenYachov: Those are the breaks. Live with it.
Me: Really? Is that all you can say like some petulant child? You know what, the only way I “live with it” is because I trust in God. I believe with my whole heart that the Church is Christ’s Church and he is in control and if he is allowing this evil to happen, then there has to be a reason for it. He has allowed truly evil Popes before and we are still here because this is Christ’s Church. THAT is how I “live with it”.

Posted by Barney Rubble on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 3:21 AM (EDT):

@Ben Yachov Hey, no need to apologize buddy. I too apologize for the way I’ve written so poorly of Pope Francis and of the way I’ve been very critical of you - please forgive me. Why have I done this ? Because, like you, I love the Catholic Faith and I try my best to defend it. I honestly believe that something is seriously amiss within the the upper echelons of the Vatican. I’m not saying all of the Cardinals have gone astray but I think quite a few have. You love the Catholic Faith too and I applaud you for this. I need to be more loving in my comments of everyone. Let’s carry-on praying for each other and just be aware that we’re living in strange times. Take care and God bless you.

Posted by BenYachov on Thursday, Jan 16, 2014 1:16 AM (EDT):

@Aussie

I am sorry I called you a “loser”. That was harsh and uncalled for.

Marcus & Sean & Rubble and others I am sorry if I was way too harsh in my responses.

Forgive me.

Peace.

Posted by BenYachov on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 6:14 PM (EDT):

>The fact is this pope speaks carelessly and vaguely, unlike his predecessors.

If only you could provide empirical evidence of that? Some of the Pope predecessors cocked it up big time. OTOH no gaff of Pope Francis’ to date is worth such disrespect to the Vicar of Christ.

>The faithfull deserve precision and clarity.

You deserve nothing and are owed nothing. What do you have that you have not received?

>But who am I to judge, of course.

That’s better. More of this.

Posted by Sean on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 6:00 PM (EDT):

Really, no one cares if you are unmoved or not, BenYachov.
And no one cares what you are moving away from or what you are now.
The fact is this pope speaks carelessly and vaguely, unlike his predecessors.
The faithfull deserve precision and clarity.
But who am I to judge, of course.
Adios dude.

Posted by BenYachov on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 4:56 PM (EDT):

>Asking for clarity is not asking much from a man of his experience and position.

Yet when the Pope is clear & offers this clarity then the Francis Bashing Talking Points are “It’s too little too late”.

Heads I win tales you loose.

>PF uses Jesuit-speak, which I learned to understand during my undergrad years at Boston College.

I am a Strict Traditional Thomist these days who is moving away from the Molinism of my youth & I have no problem with it.

One must simply learn to think like a Jesuit. They are a legitimate
Order and their Theology and method is acceptable via the instructions of Pope Paul V.

So I am un-moved by this nonsense.

Posted by BenYachov on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 4:49 PM (EDT):

@Marcus

>I mean just look at who hails him - the abortion advocates, the secular media, the gay lobby. And why do they hail him?

Big deal! The same people hailing him today will soon shout “Away with Him! GIVE US BARABBAS!!” when gay marriage & woman Priests fail to become a reality in the Church.

His current popularity with the “usual suspects” who are trying to make Pope Francis in the image of their John XXIV fantasy are no different then the First Century Jewish Zealots who wanted a political Messiah who would crush Rome & instead got Our Lord who would rather crush Satan and his kingdom.

The bottom line is the majority of “conservative” and “traditionalist” critics of the Holy Father I’ve seen thus far ARE MORONS!

Even if the Pope is not clear sometimes the reaction to it is way out of proportion to reason or charity or respectful obedience.

Those are the breaks. Live with it.

@Aussie

Loser! Go ride a Kangaroo.

Posted by Sean on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 3:37 PM (EDT):

Marcus, you hit the nail on the head, bullseye!
Asking for clarity is not asking much from a man of his experience and position.
PF uses Jesuit-speak, which I learned to understand during my undergrad years at Boston College.
Sad.

Posted by Aussie on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 2:47 PM (EDT):

The pope of 2013/2014 is a fraud. Surely, any leader of the papacy who leads the church into confusion is working for the enemy ?

Posted by chris awo on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 12:06 PM (EDT):

Michael Voris reported yesterday:
At Christmas time, a Catholic diocese with a long history of dissent and fomenting heresy by its more high-profile career-minded clergy, had its annual clergy Christmas party.
The next day, a priest who was present at the party made an appointment and went down to the chancery to lodge a complaint and make his thoughts known. He told one of the muckity-muck priests in the chancery that he never wanted to go to that party again and so don’t bother inviting him.
When asked why he said – because I spent the entire evening being introduced to all my fellow priests’ BOYFRIENDS.
One actively homosexual priest after another shows up at the annual clergy Christmas party with his boyfriend in tow.
.
Who am I to judge?

Posted by chris awo on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 11:34 AM (EDT):

@Marcus well said.

Posted by Marcus on Wednesday, Jan 15, 2014 9:06 AM (EDT):

BenYachov and Hugh Vicente,

It is indeed appalling what some are saying about the Pope.
However, it is also true that the Pope is not the clearest speaker. All it would have taken is an IF here and a BUT there so that his statements are coherent and clear but he does not do that.

Perhaps it is naivete, so maybe we will less of this off the cuff remarks now that he has seen the harm that it has done. I mean just look at how gleeful the secular media and the gay advocates and abortion advocates are?

When the Pope condemned abortion in his address to the gynaecologists, there was a sigh of relief from the Catholic faithful. Which really is quite ridiculous when you come to think of it, that it has got to that stage where the people are waiting for him to affirm Catholic teaching.

The speculation among the secular world of a whole sale sell out of what we believe is quite unprecedented.

As a matter of fact, after the Pope affirmed Church teaching on abortion the Sydney Morning Herald called this “an olive branch of sorts to the doctrine-minded, conservative wing of the Catholic Church”
What a laugh that is, that now the world sees this as an olive branch to appease small minded Catholics so now to oppose abortion is to be small minded.

I mean just look at who hails him - the abortion advocates, the secular media, the gay lobby. And why do they hail him? Because of what he has said. And people can explain as much as they want that he didn’t mean it quite that way, but seriously this amount of explaining of what a Pontiff has said is unprecedented. We need clarity and truth from the highest teaching office, not ambiguity.

Furthermore, he always seems to be having a jab at one group or another while never quite mentioning who he is taking a jab it. To me that is just disingenuous. It is like he has this pent up annoyance at some groups and he makes sly remarks about them while never coming out in the open and naming them. Just be truthful and be clear.

While all the heart warming moments are nice, the Pope is not a politician who needs to kiss babies to get elected. The office of the Papacy was gift given to us to steer us towards the truth not towards confusion.

Posted by Hugh Vincelette on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 11:02 PM (EDT):

The blatant questioning of Pope Francis’ statements of compassion are not at all surprising when one considers the constant barrage of inappropriate criticisms we’ve seen over the past couple of decades leveled at bishops who aren’t as vicious against gays as they want them to be. There’s always a segment of the so-called faithful who are obsessed with condemnation & exclusion of those who don’t fit the mold of those whose religious example is dictatorial & judgmental.

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 7:45 PM (EDT):

Only kisses babies indeed!

Eat it all you anti-Catholic Chick Comics/Maria Monk/Ian Paisley reading Wannabes with Rosaries!

A day after telling Catholics not to obsess with abortion, the Pope encourages doctors NOT to perform abortions

I can forgive the backbiting, vulgar slander and all around disrespect shown by the self-hating “Catholic” who post here bashing Pope Francis. But I am mere flesh and blood I can’t forgive the MEGA STUPIDITY of you lot! Knuckle draggers! Oy Vey!

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 7:31 PM (EDT):

>A fine example is when he placed atheists and catholics on the same level which we all know these two are complete opposites.

We are saved by Grace not our own works(Council of Trent Session VI canon one) so ultimately atheists and catholics and everybody else is on the same level before God. What is the difference between a Catholic who dies in Mortal Sin vs an Atheist who is one through no fault of his own but never the less follows the Extra-Ordinary Grace God has given him and dies in that Grace? Bid difference.

>Also he has asked those who are fighting the war on abortion to ‘tone it down’ as though the death of the unborn doesn’t matter much.

He said not such thing. He pointed out the preaching the Gospel is central too the Faith and the purpose of the Church. That Abortion is murder is not technically the Gospel even if it is infallibly true. The Pope also condemned abortion in the Strongest terms the day after and recently. Look it up! My God won’t you people in Kangaroo land pay attention!

Posted by Aussie on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 1:55 PM (EDT):

@HughV ‘false prophet’ reference to Pope Francis, I’m sitting on the fence as regards this remark. He appears to have spoken off-guard on many important subjects and often playing-down the importance of adhering to what we know to be the truth. A fine example is when he placed atheists and catholics on the same level which we all know these two are complete opposites. Also he has asked those who are fighting the war on abortion to ‘tone it down’ as though the death of the unborn doesn’t matter much. O he will kiss the babies out of the womb but he doesn’t care too much about killing them in the womb. There re many endearing things about Pope Francis although I’m wondering if he indeed IS the false prophet who very carefully changes the truth of catholicism to the point where it becomes lies. Not sure.

Posted by Marcus on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 6:36 AM (EDT):

David (written on Wed 8th): I don’t know what book you all are reading but in mine Jesus did not shun Sinners… he shunned the Pharisees that sat in judgment of others because their sins

me: Correction. Jesus did not condemn Pharisees for sitting on judgment of others. Jesus condemened them for not acknowledging their sins. If you re-read the story of the Pharisee and the tax collector, the Pharisee was condemned because he was so sure he was not sinning - according to him - unlike the tax collector. The tax collector knew he was sinning and was sorry for the sins.

Tranposse that to our current conversation regarding homosexuals, most homosexual do not think they are sinning. They think that having sexual relationship with the same gender is just all fine and dandy. That is exactly what the Pharisee was doing. And now you write condemning all those who are against homosexualit5y. So you too are like the Pharisee.

Posted by Hugh Vincelette on Tuesday, Jan 14, 2014 6:00 AM (EDT):

It is appalling to see the pope referred to as a “false prophet” & a “termite”. This man has demonstrated the universal love & affection for humanity that in the past has been sorely lacking, & all too often infused with insanity…..see the Cadaver Synod. Those who disagree with his ‘magisterium’can start their own church & revert back to bigotry & Dominus vobiscum.

Posted by BenYachov on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 8:56 PM (EDT):

Additional:

The political activism of Gays can be undermined by personally converting individuals. At minimum when you consider the rise of Atheism among gays merely encouraging them to seek God opens them to receiving the fullness of Truth. One you move away from the idea “What I want is paramount” to the simple idea “What does God want of me & what do I owe Him?” that is a seed that is planted in rich soil.

To many of the Francis Bashing Guild who post here (you know who you are & you need to be ashamed) confuse political battle with Evangelizing.

Now make no mistake I am politically a hard core Conservative but to equate political battle(which should be hard hitting)with Evangelism which should flow from Grace is just vulgar!

Posted by BenYachov on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 8:45 PM (EDT):

@BenYachov tell us, and with the relevant links and citations.

@cpola

Do your own homework buddy. But I will indulge you a little.

Pope Francis when he was still a Cardinal & the Socialist President of his Country was pushing for Gay Marriage and Gay Adoption wrote to a bunch of Nuns in 2010 QUOTE"The identity of the family, and its survival, are in jeopardy here: father, mother, and children. The life of so many children who will be discriminated beforehand due to the lack of human maturity that God willed them to have with a father and a mother is in jeopardy. A clear rejection of the law of God, engraved in our hearts, is in jeopardy. … Here, the envy of the Devil … deceitfully intends to destroy the image of God: man and woman, who receive the mandate to grow, multiply, and conquer the earth. Let us not be naive: it is not a simple political struggle; it is an intention destructive of the plan of God. It is not a mere legislative project…, but rather a “move” of the father of lies who wishes to confuse and deceive the children of God.”END QUOTE

So you really what to tell me with a straight face Francis today believes differently a mere three years later?

Your problem is like the left-wing Gays you hold the personal is political. How we fight anti-Catholic gay activists in the political realm is not how we should share the Gospel with individual persons who happen to be same sex attracted whom we come across in our daily lives.

Charity and love go a long way when you encounter people as people.

How is this bloody hard?

Posted by BenYachov on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 8:07 PM (EDT):

>Evangelii Gaudium ~ Reflects No Desire Whatsoever to Seek Converts to the Catholic Faith:“Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no! Go out and meet him, he is your brother. This is enough. Go out and help him and Jesus will do the rest.”

So what you are telling me Barney is in addition too your latent Protestant views that you have been implicitly spewing here you are a champion of the heresy of Pelagianism as well? So Jesus has no role in converting people, God’s Grace has no place in pre-moving the Will & we should rely solely on our own human efforts?

Nice! Listen Rubble I have talked to many a Cultist who proof texts the Bible out of context to read into it their own heterodox meaning (for Jehovah’s Witnesses John 14:28… Father is Greater than I etc is misread as a denial of Christ’s divinity) I am even less impressed by you doing the same to Pope Francis. Francis isn’t saying anything here other pre-Vatican II Catholic sources haven’t already said.

““Non-Christians, by God’s gracious initiative, when they are faithful to their own consciences, can live JUSTIFIED BY THE GRACE OF GOD,and thus be ASSOCIATED TO THE PASCHAL MYSTERY OF JESUS CHRIST.” But due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace, God’s working in them tends to produce signs and rites, sacred expressions which in turn bring others to a communitarian experience of journeying towards God. While these lack the meaning and efficacy of the sacraments instituted by Christ, they can be channels which the Holy Spirit raises up in order to liberate non-Christians from atheistic immanentism of from purely individual religious experiences.” (EG254)”

Popes Alexander VIII, Pius IX, St Pius X etc all explicitly taught non-believers by negation can be saved by following the Grace God might give them. So what? Also religious rites that are not in themselves intrinsically evil or idolatrous can be channels of Grace. That can be found in Aquinas. My 1954 Catholic Theology Dictionary says the invalid sacraments of Protestants (Orders. Eucharist, Confirmation etc) while not being able to produce Grace can be means of grace so again I see nothing novel here.

What you mean like the use of Wedding Rings in the Sacrament of Marriage which where originally something used in Pagan rituals?
How about the vestments of Roman Rite Priests? They are as much modeled on pagan Roman overcoats & garments worn by pagan clergy as they are the vestments of Jewish Cohen. We should be surprised Divine Providence moved the Pagans to come up with these things so they can be baptized and purified for use in the True Faith? Your complaints sound like the rantings of someone who reads Chick Comics not Aquinas or Anselm. It is not very Catholic & it sounds Protestant Fundamentalist.

>we are told that this urge to engage in pagan rites is “due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace.” SANCTIFYING GRACE!!

Naturally! God wrote His Laws into the hearts of all men (Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10) . We should then not be surprised when failing to have access to real sacraments non-believes would fashion their own. As far as they come up with any that are not intrinsically evil they are no doubt products of Divine Providence. This is uncontroversial unless you hold the Gnostic tendencies of Prot Fundamentalism which it appears your do.

>This is why the pope feels justified in calling religious diversity “a gift” and can write about a “healthy religious pluralism”(cfEG255)

There are 23 liturgical rites in the Catholic Church and literally hundreds if not thousands of sacramental devotions. Since when is the Church so monolithic? You need to get out more.

>As he sees it, from the earth worshipers to the humanists and everyone in between, the whole kit and caboodle is nothing less than the Holy Spirit moving the whole of mankind toward God; a process that takes place quite apart from the participation in of modern day churchmen whose primary concern is social justice; having long since outgrown the Great Commission.

You clearly didn’t read Evangelii Gaudium in it’s entirety at best you proof texted it no doubt with guidance from SSPX types with sound bites from other false pseudo Traditionalist wannabes. You have not made your case. You have just shown more of your ignorance.

Posted by Larry on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 11:53 AM (EDT):

Pope Francis is articulating nothing more than the doctrine of the Baptism of Desire, implicit as well as explicit. The Lord Himself explained the doctrine when he told the Pharisees, “If you really were blind, you would have no sin—but you say, ‘we see’—so your sin remains.” In other words, since they boasted of their knowledge of the Scriptures, they could not be excused by invincible ignorance from accepting him as their savior. The flip side is that those who were ignorant of revelation through no fault of their own would be excused from accepting Christ. And on the other point—I think Francis is illustrating the advice of his namesake saint, Francis of Assisi, who said—preach the Gospel always and if necessary, use words. The bulk of our witnessing to the faith must be through the example of a life lived in Faith—with only occasional recourse to verbal persuasion.

Posted by cpola on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 7:18 AM (EDT):

The Global Gay Agenda is presently pushing for the legalization of same-sex marriage in all the states of the USA; also it is pushing for decriminalization and legitimization of same-sex acts by all nations on this globe.
Consider that in July 2013 the UN human rights office voted millions of US dollars for their global campaign to support homosexual acts and marriages. Indeed they had the famous Archbishop Desmond Tutu as one of the chief launchers of this campaign. A few days later Jorge Bergloglio gave the Global Gay Agenda a shot in the arm with his infamous ’ who am I to judge?’ remark.
Now for those supporting the present regime in Rome. What has been done to counter the global agenda to drag souls to hell with the vehicle of “legitimate” homosexual acts? When and how, since his election in March 2013, has Jorge Bergloglio warned people about the grave dangers of homosexual acts?
@BenYachov tell us, and with the relevant links and citations.

“Do you need to convince the other to become Catholic? No, no, no! Go out and meet him, he is your brother. This is enough. Go out and help him and Jesus will do the rest.”

At the very heart of Pope Francis’ vision for the church lies the impoverished notion of her mission, one that reflects no desire whatsoever to seek converts to the Catholic Faith, be it among the heathens, the heretics or the Jews.

“Non-Christians, by God’s gracious initiative, when they are faithful to their own consciences, can live JUSTIFIED BY THE GRACE OF GOD,and thus be ASSOCIATED TO THE PASCHAL MYSTERY OF JESUS CHRIST.” But due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace, God’s working in them tends to produce signs and rites, sacred expressions which in turn bring others to a communitarian experience of journeying towards God. While these lack the meaning and efficacy of the sacraments instituted by Christ, they can be channels which the Holy Spirit raises up in order to liberate non-Christians from atheistic immanentism of from purely individual religious experiences.” (EG254)

Think about what we’re being told…

The invincibly ignorant non-Christian, moved by grace to seek God and yet embracing a false religion just the same, tends to engage in pagan rituals that serve to create a community of pagans. So far so good, but notice exactly who, at least insofar as the pope believes, “raised up” these so-called “sacred expressions”, it’s the Holy Spirit !

If that’s not troubling enough, we are told that this urge to engage in pagan rites is “due to the sacramental dimension of sanctifying grace.” SANCTIFYING GRACE!!

While Pope Francis’ post-concilliar predecessors were content to behave as if all roads lead to God, Baptism or not, this pope is willing to put his cards face-up on the table: There is no urgency to Baptize non-Christians for the simple reason that sanctifying grace is already operative in their lives !

This explains a lot, doesn’t it ?

This is why the pope feels justified in calling religious diversity “a gift” and can write about a “healthy religious pluralism”(cfEG255)

As he sees it, from the earth worshipers to the humanists and everyone in between, the whole kit and caboodle is nothing less than the Holy Spirit moving the whole of mankind toward God; a process that takes place quite apart from the participation in of modern day churchmen whose primary concern is social justice; having long since outgrown the Great Commission.

And this is the man chosen by the College of Cardinals to “reform the Roman Curia,” or to borrow an ominous phrase from Evangelii Gaudium, to “open us up to the future, lest we cling to nostalgia for structures and customs which are no longer life-giving in today’s world” (EV108)

God help us.

(Let he who has a brain, observe.)

Posted by BenYachov on Sunday, Jan 12, 2014 5:08 AM (EDT):

@Barney Rubble

Jesus Son of Mary already said the Gates if Hell would not prevail against the Church and See of Peter. The Almighty needs not your help nor mine.

So before God do your soul a favor. Keep your charges of heresy too yourself. As for preaching Christ Crucified have you not read the first five paragraphs of EVANGELII GAUDIUM? It’s right there in plain English.

Let he who has ears(& basic literacy) let him hear(or read as the case may be).

Posted by Barney Rubble on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 11:25 PM (EDT):

@BenYachov All I’m saying is be very careful with the man in the seat of Peter. If he begins to preach Christ Crucified and Risen from the Dead, I’ll listen to him. Humanism is not Christianity. Jesus came to save sinners.

Posted by BenYachov on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 7:05 PM (EDT):

@Barney Rubble

>We all know that Mary was human. The pope mentioned this line, not me, as he preceded his heretical statement about Our Lady and I think he was implying that ‘because she was human, she also sinned’.

That is irrational and absurd. He at no time said Mary sinned. He either showed her being tempted (BTW being tempted is not the same as sinning & if you disagree you support the false doctrines of the Protestant heretics condemned by the Holy Council of Trent.) or showing her human nature judging according to it’s senses that it seems what she was promised by God did not seem to be true. So her response to the evidence of her senses and heart was holy silence before God. She by the Grace of Her Immaculate conception continued to wait on God.

Which is what we should do when life doesn’t make sense and God’s promises to the evidence of our eyes seem not to be true. We should shut up and Trust.

Take the Hint.

> I didn’t address your other points because neither did you address MY points in my earlier post. Anyway let’s not argue rather shall we pray for the other ? Time will tell who is right.

I answered your charge Pope Francis taught heresy and that Mary sinned. If you have no answer back you should stop slandering the Vicar of Christ if you value your soul. I will pray for you. Please pray for me a sinner.

Posted by Theresa H on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 3:28 PM (EDT):

bh95, I just read your Comment up at the beginning….It seems to me that I would tell my child the truth IF the occasion comes when it is called for….It is also a fact that your CHILD is not bad or wrong, or a mistake; no matter HOW a child has been conceived, God is the Giver of every human life. HE is the one who breathes the “breath of life” in that “union” of the sperm and egg. Yes, this did NOT happen the WAY God intends it to happen…, but He “allows” man to do other than His will, and He can bring good out of something that is evil/wrong….God is still Faithful and the Child can turn to God with love and gratitude for his/her life! You have also indicated repentance for the wrong “act,” but it still remains true that the child that was the result is, nonetheless, a child of God—the only One who can give the “breath” of Life! We should also pray for the Doctors who are supplanting God’s plan for/between one man and one woman by their IVF intervention….

Posted by Theresa H on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 2:41 PM (EDT):

Back on the subject of the Article and Pope Francis’ call to reflect on how we evangelize children who are being raised by homosexual parents. A very, very difficult situation to address with THE CHILD .... After all, in his/her individual “family,” the child knows only what he/she sees…. And what happens as the child is exposed to heterosexual-relatives and their families, starts school, and sees the mothers and fathers of the other children…. Will his/her homosexual “parents” explain what is evident? Are his/her “parents” going to explain Church Teaching? (I wouldn’t think so.) How will the extended family interact. God help us! What have we come to? It is all very, very sad. I have a self-declared homosexual brother—not “married” as far as I know. (He also knows my stance on “gay marriage.”) We just had a big family reunion for 8 days. Thankfully, he came alone and nothing was said the whole time; we enjoyed all being together as family for 8 days!

Posted by David Peters on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 1:33 PM (EDT):

Jimmy, thank you! This is an excellent article and I’m glad you brought some good clear thinking into this issue. You are awesome.
To cploa, I agree about what you said about the Blessed Virgin Mary. Thank you for your comments. Your perspective on this seems right on target. God bless.

Posted by Chinny on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 12:09 PM (EDT):

@Russell Wesley, read the Book of Revelation 21:1-8, “Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The first heaven and the first earth disappeared. The sea vanished. And I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem coming out of heaven from God, prepared and ready, like a bride dressed to meet her husband. I heard a loud voice speaking from the throne, ‘Now God’s home is with people! He will live with them, and they shall be his people. God himself will be with them, and he will be their God. He will wipe away all tears from their eyes. There will be no more death, no more grief or crying or pain. The old things have disappeared.”
Then the one who sits on the throne said, “And now I will make all things new!” He also said to me, “Write this, because these words are true and can be trusted.” And he said, “It is done! I am the first and the last, the beginning and the end. To anyone who is thirsty I will give the right to drink from the spring of the water of life without paying for it. Those who win the victory will receive this from: I will be their God and they shall be my children. But cowards, traitors, perverts, murderers, the immoral, those whonpracyicw magic, those who worship idols and all liars - the place for them is the lake burning with fire and sulphue which is the second death”

2 Timothy 4:2-4, “Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.”
You cannot serve God with part of your body yearning and reserved for evil. God is a jealous God. He is also a consuming fire. Prayer of a sinner is an abomination in the sight of God. Sodomy, gay or whatever you call it is sacrilege to God’s creation. REPENT WHEN YOU STILL HAVE BREATH IN YOU, or you will regret in hell fire.

Posted by Theresa H on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 12:05 PM (EDT):

No doubt about it, it is quite apparent that Pope Francis has a different manner of speaking from our previous two great Popes of the past 25 years. I, too, have been a bit disturbed over “quotes” of Pope Francis that I have read. But reading more about Pope Francis (how he walked the streets and spoke with the “common people” even when Cardinal in Argentina) tells us a lot about his experience and personality. (We all have our unique personality—this doesn’t change when one becomes Pope!) We also have to keep in mind that what we read in English is a “translation”—and, in fact, may be a mis-translation. I read of one such mis-translation in an article in a bi-monthly Catholic magazine I subscribe to. Turns out, the reporter on the plane with Pope Francis just jotted down a few notes and for the rest “winged” his “transcript” of the conversation! The results were, indeed, disturbing, and subsequently, corrected in the next edition!

Posted by Chinny on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 10:30 AM (EDT):

@robert waligora, this caption in your comment,“but enough is enough. Homosexual unions are nothing BUT SATAN’S DIRECT ATTACK ON THE MARRIAGE OF BLESSED MARY AND ST. JOSEPH..PERIOD!”, caught my interest.

I’m also tired of people trying to explain our Pope each time he speaks. Is it how he’ll run our Church with confusion? People are busy getting angry over the confusion his messages are causing while others are busy defending or persuading people to accept the Satanic teachings.
When the Son of Man shall appear, would He find faith on earth? As for me and my family, nobody can confuse us to accept any evil teachings.

Posted by Chinny on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 10:01 AM (EDT):

@Casper, you took the word right from my mouth. Why can’t the Pope call a spade, a spade? Why can’t he condemn sin?

Posted by Barney Rubble on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 3:38 AM (EDT):

We all know that Mary was human. The pope mentioned this line, not me, as he preceded his heretical statement about Our Lady and I think he was implying that ‘because she was human, she also sinned’. I didn’t address your other points because neither did you address MY points in my earlier post. Anyway let’s not argue rather shall we pray for the other ? Time will tell who is right.

Posted by Teacher on Saturday, Jan 11, 2014 2:22 AM (EDT):

“Mrs.D, One of my Mommies(3) left. When do I get a Daddy?”

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 7:45 PM (EDT):

@Barney Rubble

The theme is clearly stated in the text “Our Lady is the Perfect Icon of Silence”.

Also I hate to point it out to you but Mary is Human. What else can she be? Only Her Son is Divine and Human.

You have not addressed my points so your “response” is tedious & low brow like the Caveman whose moniker you sport.

Mark Shea is a convert from Evangelicalism to Catholicism and Catholic author.

He wrote AN EVANGELICAL DISCOVERS MARY and other books.

Posted by Barney Rubble on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 7:44 PM (EDT):

As my mate Fred often told me “Go easy Barney !!” My words are rather blunt but I do have the Roman Catholic Faith at heart and anyone who attacks her needs to know that they’re trying to fight against God and if the Great Saint Paul couldn’t destroy the church, no one ever will. Saints will stand-up now to defend her for the final great battle of Good vs Evil, and again, we all know who will win this one. God bless you all. p.s. @cpola You wrote your piece exceedingly well.

Posted by cpola on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 6:45 PM (EDT):

Many people down the centuries have wondered and speculated about the state of mind of the Blessed Virgin Mary at Calvary as she contemplated her beloved son nailed to the cross like a common criminal; the worst of common criminals.
There she stood at the foot of the Cross with the blessed Apostle St. John, St. Mary Magdalene and the other women. There she stood overhearing the blasphemies and insults and jeers uttered at her son. “if God loves him why does God not save him”, “Come down from the Cross then we will believe that you are the Son of God”, etc. etc.

Was the Blessed Virgin Mary sad or depressed or hysterical or was she angry with God. With regards to her mood anybody’s guess is as good as that of the next person. What is certain is that she was not angry with God. She did not question God in anger. Why? Because she had been well prepared and trained for the coming Passion of Christ.

She was prepared by the grace of God, who caused her to be conceived without original sin. She was prepared by her parents (S.S. Joachim and Anna) with the best – 1st century BC – Jewish pious training. She was prepared by the angelic Annunciation. She was prepared by the long barrenness of her cousin St. Elizabeth and the eventual birth of St. John the Baptist. She was prepared by the prophecy of St. Simeon and St. Anna of Jerusalem – “and a sword shall pierce your heart”. She was prepared by the eventual discovery of the child Jesus (at age 12 years) after searching for him for three days. She was prepared by the martyrdom of St. John the Baptist. As a mystic she was prepared by her spiritual experiences as the Passion approached.

Despite all these preparations the Crucifixion and the Death of our Lord Jesus was an excruciating experience for his mother. She felt it right down to her soul.

But angry with God? No, never. Not the Blessed Virgin Mary. We can visualize her in tears, in mourning and in prayers. We can visualize her praying Psalm 22, 44, and 88.

‘For those who love God everything works for the good’ (Romans 8 v 28).

‘No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.’ (Romans 8 v 37-39) cf www.popeleo13.com

Posted by Barney Rubble on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 5:11 PM (EDT):

@BenYachov Nice try bro :) Now, let’s be honest here: The pope wasn’t talking about a ‘theme’. He said of the Mother of God…“Our Lady was human!” and that she thought about God’s will for her “Lies! I was deceived!” . This is NOT a catholic speaking rather the enemy of the church. Open your eyes and your ears. p.s. Who is Mark Shea ?

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 4:24 PM (EDT):

“Pope Francis is not the enemy of the Church and Catholics who think it their job to defend the faith from him should consider the possibility they are insufficiently modest about their brains and sanctity” -Mark shea

@Barney Rubble

I read the homily and it is very clear to me.

QUOTE"She was silent, but in her heart, how many things told the Lord! ‘You, that day, this and the other that we read, you had told me that he would be great, you had told me that you would have given him the throne of David, his forefather, that he would have reigned forever and now I see him there!’ Our Lady was human! And perhaps she even had the desire to say: ‘Lies! I was deceived!’“END QUOTE

The theme here is Mary in her will was silent before God even thought the natural things of the world like her lower animas nature told her all the empirical evidence points to her being deceived. She ignored mere created nature & answered it’s charges with silence & waiting on God. In Her will by the of Her Immmaculate conception she remained faithful.

OTOH this may just speak of her being tempted but of course she clearly never gave in because she responded in silence.

Unless you are some Trent denying Calvinist(there are a lot of them it seems among the Francis Trashers Guild”) who believes the Reformed heresy that mere temptation is sin.

In which case you should read Session V & VI of Trent and stop boring me to tears with you neo-Protestantism.

Posted by Barney Rubble on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 3:31 PM (EDT):

@BenYachov Any pope who embraces humanism above worship of Christ Crucified and Risen from the dead is ‘lost’. To state, clearly I might add (for a change), that he considered Our Lady would have accused God of “lies” while her Son died on The Cross, is blatant heresy and abhorrent speach. How can this comment be interpreted any other way. No doubt, ecclesiastical Masonry has their man in the chair of Peter. Rather than tell us whose going to hell, perhaps you could stand-up for Christ and get yourself into the front-trench in the diabolical fight for the unborn child in the womb. The greatest abomination by man in world history. Get out there man and accept the abuse the enemies of God will spit at you. We’re getting plenty more abuse since the pope said “O DON’T GET ALL CARRIED AWAY WITH ABORTION-FEED THE POOR” B.S. man ! Let’s see what God thinks about this kind of talk from Bergoglio, Praying a Rosary or Divine Mercy Chaplet in all that traffic for such a good worthy cause is beautiful, even if just one baby is saved each week, somewhere in the world.

Posted by BenYachov on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 2:00 PM (EDT):

@The Good Life

>I’m not leaving the Roman Catholic Faith, Nick, rather I have evaluated everything this man has said during his papacy and I formed my decision that he is NOT OF GOD.

There is no polite way to put this. You are lost! It is Infallible dogma that submission to the Roman Pontiff is necessary for salvation. It is Tradition that the Pope is judged by no one except God.

The Pope has said and taught nothing heretical. You can’t find the Pope to be a heretic because you have some Mormonesque burning in the breast.

So you are lost unless you repent.

Now I could be wrong (not being God) about you being lost. I admit that.
But it seems to me it’s better to warn you that you are going to Hell and be wrong then NOT warning you are going to Hell and be wrong.

It is not some outside lobby or agenda that I fear. It is not figuring out how to spread the Gospel to to the sin filled world outside that I dread. It is the apathy, hatred, and tremendous stupidity within the Church that I fear. This is what I spend my time praying about. That I for one do not contribute to the problems. And that I can figure out how to contribute to to improving things. I applaud the outreach that you do that you have written about. It inspires me to do more.

The hatred and stupidity expressed by so many of the other commenters infuriates and depresses me. Your patient and eloquent replies also inspires to me to try to love and pray for those commenters.

Last and certainly not least, I want to thank you for pointing out that midgets have shorter crosses to bear. That made my day.

Posted by Barney Rubble on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 10:07 AM (EDT):

chris awo, you’re onto it brother, what you write is my language. Wake up everybody because the church we’ve always loved so-o much is under attack, from within. The enemy are doing it from the inside. Open your eyes, friends because it’s happening under your noses, and I’d like to offer proof: Observe the liberal-minded and those who left the church out of selfishness, returning in their droves. When Christ spoke on tough subjects, people walked away.

Posted by James Brady on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 8:06 AM (EDT):

chris awo,

You got it

Posted by chris awo on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 6:30 AM (EDT):

I urge you all to join me today and tomorrow in prayers and sacrifices in reparation for the sin of homosexual acts among Catholic priests, in particular among the highest levels of the Roman Curia. Let us also pray that their intention to further liberalize this grave sin - under the subterfuge of pastoral care of same-sex marriages - may be thwarted by Divine intervention.
.
This are tough times for the Church and only those whose names have been written, before the foundation of the world, in the Book of the Lamb will realize it. (cf Revelation 13)

Posted by Theresa H on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 4:25 AM (EDT):

Russell, it is not correct to say that “God sustains sin.” God sustains the sinner, not the sin. We are entirely responsible for our sin. God gives “grace;” sin it totally contrary to God. Jesus took the deadly weight of our sins upon his shoulders and died to save us from our sins.

Posted by Rachel D on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 2:11 AM (EDT):

@Nick Fair enough, you’re a busy man.I’ve never read so much wisdom in a book than ‘To the priests…’ You’ll be thankful for the read, I assure you. Unfortunately, in the faith today, truth is twisted to appear as an untruth and visa versa. One thing I’ve always known about Catholicism is this: Those that are ‘with Our Lady’ are solid in their faith. There are plenty of false prophets around and even Priests are weary of making a call on authenticity. For me personally, truth speaks to my heart and I feel it clearly. The same when I read false prophecy, I feel it. Cheers Nick (...and readers)

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Friday, Jan 10, 2014 12:09 AM (EDT):

“Game, set, match Nick from Detroit.”What? What does Can. 212 have do with all the questions you asked me, D.A.Howard? Which I answered, by the way.
Also, the key part of Can. 212 would be “in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position.” You have no knowledge, competence, or position to stop listening to what the Vicar of Christ says. Sorry.
I hope and pray that you pay better attention to what the Holy Father says, in the future, than you have up to this point. God Bless!

Posted by D.A. Howard on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 9:41 PM (EDT):

@Nick from Detroit. The pope does not epitomize what it means to be Catholic, Christ does. You should have known that answer.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 9:39 PM (EDT):

@Nick from Detroit: Code of Canon Law 212 §3 “The[ Faithful] have the right, indeed at times the duty, in keeping with their knowledge, competence and position, to manifest to the sacred Pastors their views on matters which concern the good of the Church. They have the right also to make their views known to others of Christ’s faithful..”

Game, set, match Nick from Detroit.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:30 PM (EDT):

Rachel D.,
Thanks for the compliment. I’d like to think that I’m a fair-minded individual.
Now, I’ve only heard of Fr. Gobbi through my sister, so, I only recognize the name, really. A quick search shows that there are faithful Catholics on both sides of these reported locutions and the Marian Movement of Priests.
I would love to do more research, when I have the time. But, my reading list is so backed up with things I want to read, it may take awhile!
God Bless!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:21 PM (EDT):

“Now what does it mean for a priest to be gay?”
That is not the question the Holy Father was addressing, Chris Awo.“If he has ssa and willfully acts on it in thoughts and actions then he has committed, probably, the worst sin a priest serving at the Altar of the Most High God can commit.”
Again, this is not the question Pope Francis was dealing with. He was asked about a career diplomat, whom he had just made a prelate of the Institute for Works of Religion, who had allegations made against him in L’Espresso, and, the “gay lobby” in the Curia.
So, his words MUST BE READ in context.“Anyone who downplays the gravity of the sin of manifest homosexuality among Catholic priests will answer for it before the throne of the Lord Jesus.”
His Holiness did not “downplay” the sin of homosexual acts (homosexuality, i.e., the inclination of same-gender attraction, is not a sin, in and of itself). He clearly stated: “But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun, has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is very important for our lives.”
Is this heresy?
He also said, ”[T]he problem is to form a lobby of those who have this [homosexual] tendency, a lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons, so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me.”
Is this heresy?

Posted by Larry on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 7:29 PM (EDT):

“Every child not allowed to be born, but unjustly condemned to be aborted, has the face of Jesus Christ, the Lord’s face, inasmuch as before he was born, and while born, he experiences the rejection of the world.” An excerpt from a speech by Pope Francis to a gathering of Catholic gynecologists in the Clementine Hall of the Apostolic Palace, September 20, 2013. Other excerpts: “Many times, we find ourselves in situations where we see life being devalued. For this reason, in recent years attention to human life in its totality has become a real priority of the Magisterium of the Church, particularly in regard to the most defenseless, that is, the disabled, the sick, the unborn, the child, the elderly, those whose life is most defenseless…My dear friends and physicians, you who are called to take care of human life in its initial phase, remind everyone, with your actions and your words, that life is always, in all its phases and at any age, sacred and is always of this quality. And not as a matter of faith—no, no—but of reason, as a matter of science! There is no human life more sacred than another, just as there is not a human life qualitatively more significant than another. The credibility of a health care system is measured not only by efficiency, but also by the attention and love towards the person, whose life is always sacred and inviolable…‘The first right of the human person is his life. He has other goods and some of them are very precious, but life is the fundamental good condition for all others.’(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Declaration on Procured Abortion, November 18, 1974, No. 11)...The final objective of the physician is always the defense and promotion of life…the Church appeals to the conscience, the conscience of all health care professionals and volunteers, and in a particular way to you Gynecologists, who are called to collaborate in the creation of new human lives.” So Rachel D., I hope this answers your question as to whether Pope Francis loves unborn children as much as he loves the born. In the future, I would suggest you go to the source and learn what the pope really said, as opposed to sheepishly letting the media fill your mind with garbage.

Posted by Guest on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 5:44 PM (EDT):

Randy,

What is a real kid?

Posted by Randy on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 4:29 PM (EDT):

Rachel.
Abortion is part of a “allknowings ” gods plan for the overpopulation problem. There are up to 10 milluon real kids who die from hunger and dirty water each year.

Posted by chris awo on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 4:16 PM (EDT):

@ Nick in Detoit: If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will who am I to judge that person?
.
Now what does it mean for a priest to be gay? If he has ssa but does not act on it how does that concern anybody apart from his confessor and his spiritual director?
If he has ssa and willfully acts on it in thoughts and actions then he has committed, probably, the worst sin a priest serving at the Altar of the Most High God can commit. An abomination in a Holy place. A nauseating act described so by St Peter Damian , St Catherine of Siena, St Bernardine of Siena and other numerous Church Fathers and Doctors. None of these holy men and women ever said ‘who am I to judge?’. In fact they prescribe severe penances for manifest homosexual priests so that the souls of the said priests may be saved from purgatory or hell.
.
Anyone who downplays the gravity of the sin of manifest homosexuality among Catholic priests will answer for it before the throne of the Lord Jesus.
.
I repeat Anyone who downplays the gravity of the sin of manifest homosexuality among Catholic priests will answer for it before the throne of the Lord Jesus.

Posted by Rachel D on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 3:59 PM (EDT):

Nick, You appear to be fair with your remarks. Get hold of a book called: TO THE PRIESTS, OUR LADY’S BELOVED SONS Preface: On the 8th of May 1972, Don Stefano Gobbi (Priest) was taking part in a pilgrimage to Fatima and was praying in the little Chapel of the Apparitions for some priests who, besides having personally given up their own vocations, were attempting to form themselves into associations in rebellion against the Church’s authority. An interior force urged him to have confidence in the Immaculate Heart of Mary. _ This was the beginning of 25 yrs of inner locutions from Our Blessed Mother. I have been reading this book for years, over and over. Pope John Paul II became good friends with Fr Gobbi as they both shared a profound devotion to Mary. This book is a block of gold because Our Lady explains the dire times we are living through and especially how ecclesiastical masonry
is attempting to destroy the church. Message 406 is explained in brief in a you tube presentation. I know so many solid priests who love these writings. Here is a snippet of m. 406 “This Masonic infiltration, in the interior of the Church, was already foretold to you by me at Fatima, when I announced to you that Satan would enter in even to the summit of the Church. If the task of Masonry is to lead souls to perdition, bringing them to the worship of false divinities, the task of ecclesiastical Masonry on the other hand is that of destroying Christ and his Church, building a new idol, namely a false christ and a false church.”
I highly recommend this book.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 3:15 PM (EDT):

The Good Life,
Don’t feel sad for me. I only believe what the Catholic Church teaches, what She has always taught. Not that I know everything that the Church teaches. I still have much to learn. But, I know enough to recognize what you are claiming is NOT what She teaches. Sorry.“The Abomination of Desolation refers to the absence of the true presence very soon.”
Show one instance of the Catholic Church, or a Catholic scholar, teaching anything remotely close to this, TGL.
You are right about the last part, though. I do need to pray the Rosary more. And fast more. And use the Sacraments more. But, this will not make non-Catholic theories suddenly become true, I’m afraid.
Thank you for your prayer. May God bless you, and your family, with a Happy New Year!

Posted by Rachel D on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 3:13 PM (EDT):

Any priest today who is honest will tell you that the Catholic Church is in Crisis today on the subject of Abortion alone. Very very few ever speak about it. It’s as though it’s taboo. Herein lies the Just Anger of God. Pope Francis loves children but does he love unborn children who are being aborted by their millions. If so, why doesn’t he talk about it and command the bishops and priests to talk about it ? There is NO GREATER SIN on the planet…. and yet the pope has even had the gall to say ‘O don’t worry about that so much’. HERESY !!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 3:04 PM (EDT):

“one [sic] Pope says of gay priests, ‘who am I to judge?’”
That is a distortion of what he said, Chris Awo. Don’t get your information about what Pope Francis says from The New York Slimes, okay?
The Holy Father was answering two specific questions put to him by a reporter. One was about a certain Monsignor Ricca, the second concerned the “gay lobby.”
Here is the complete exchange:Ilse: I would like to ask permission to pose a rather delicate question. Another image that went around the world is that of Monsignor Ricca and the news about his personal life. I would like to know, your Holiness, what will be done about this question. How should one deal with this question and how does your Holiness wish to deal with the whole question of the gay lobby?
The Pope’s Answer
Regarding the matter of Monsignor Ricca, I did what Canon Law required and did the required investigation. And from the investigation, we did not find anything corresponding to the accusations against him. We found none of that. That is the answer. But I would like to add one more thing to this: I see that so many times in the Church, apart from this case and also in this case, one looks for the “sins of youth,” for example, is it not thus?, And then these things are published. These things are not crimes. The crimes are something else: child abuse is a crime. But sins, if a person, or secular priest or a nun, has committed a sin and then that person experienced conversion, the Lord forgives and when the Lord forgives, the Lord forgets and this is very important for our lives. When we go to confession and we truly say “I have sinned in this matter,” the Lord forgets and we do not have the right to not forget because we run the risk that the Lord will not forget our sins, eh? This is a danger. This is what is important: a theology of sin. So many times I think of St. Peter: he committed one of the worst sins denying Christ. And with this sin they made him Pope. We must think about fact often.
But returning to your question more concretely: in this case [Ricca] I did the required investigation and we found nothing. That is the first question. Then you spoke of the gay lobby. Agh… so much is written about the gay lobby. I have yet to find on a Vatican identity card the word gay. They say there are some gay people here. I think that when we encounter a gay person, we must make the distinction between the fact of a person being gay and the fact of a lobby, because lobbies are not good. They are bad. If a person is gay and seeks the Lord and has good will[i.e., someone attracted to people of the same gender, who is struggling to follow Christ], who am I to judge that person? The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this point beautifully but says, wait a moment, how does it say, it says, these persons must never be marginalized and “they must be integrated into society.”
The problem is not that one has this tendency; no, we must be brothers, this is the first matter. There is another problem, another one: the problem is to form a lobby of those who have this tendency, a lobby of the greedy people, a lobby of politicians, a lobby of Masons, so many lobbies. This is the most serious problem for me. And thank you so much for doing this question. Thank you very much!

Now, show me anything heretical, or against the Church’s teaching, in that answer, if you can? And, re-read what Mr. Akin wrote about this incident, at the time:
http://www.ncregister.com/blog/jimmy-akin/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-what-pope-francis-said-about-gays

Posted by The Good Life on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 3:01 PM (EDT):

@Nick I feel sadness when I read your ignorant words. You know little about scripture. The Abomination of Desolation refers to the absence of the true presence very soon. Of course, the ‘underground church’ will carry on as before, although it will be but a Remnant. Begin to pray the Rosary, daily as Mother Mary has requested. It is a powerful weapon against evil as is fasting. Live the Sacraments and bit by bit you will be filled with wisdom. God be with you.

Posted by chris awo on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 2:04 PM (EDT):

one Pope says of gay priests, “who am I to judge?”
.
Another says:
That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were destroyed by fire through divine condemnation, causes us most bitter sorrow and shocks our mind, impelling us to repress such a crime with the greatest possible zeal.
So that the contagion of such a grave offense may not advance with greater audacity by taking advantage of impunity, which is the greatest incitement to sin, and so as to more severely punish the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime and who are not frightened by the death of their souls, we determine that they should be handed over to the severity of the secular authority, which enforces civil law.
...we establish that any priest or member of the clergy, either secular or regular, who commits such an execrable crime, by force of the present law be deprived of every clerical privilege, of every post, dignity and ecclesiastical benefit [Pope Pius V : Constitution Horrendum illud scelus]
.
Who is speaking the truth? Pope Francis or Pope Pius V?

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 12:23 PM (EDT):

I completely agree with Larry’s most eloquent comment. He said it better than I am able. Excellent job, Larry.

@D.A.Howard,“Did you ever study theology?”
I’ve studied the works of Dr. Scott Hahn. Does that count?“If so, tell me the difference between the Ordinary Magisterium and the Extraordinary Magisterium.”
Thank goodness for Catholicism for Dummies!
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/what-are-extraordinary-magisterium-and-ordinary-ma.html“Can the pope err in the Ordinary Magisterium?”
Umm, nope. The Ordinary Magisterium only restates already infallible teachings.“Can the pope err? If so, under what conditions?”
When he is NOT dealing with teachings on faith and morals. In other words, when he is expressing his personal opinion.“Of course, being not trained in theology you will evade.”
Sorry to disappoint you, D.A.Howard.
Also, I’ve mentioned Sacred Tradition more than anyone else in this thread. Please, read all of my comments and you won’t make such a silly mistake, again. God Bless!

@The Good Life,“Nick, if one detects heresy by the Bishop of Rome and for that reason one does not accept him as the Pope, I believe that the person becomes a Sedevacaniste.”
One does not “detect” heresy. It’s usually pretty obstinate and right in the open. Pope Francis HAS NOT taught anything heretical. Period.“I still accept the ‘true’ teachings of the church.”
So, you have made yourself your own pope. Good luck with that! You have no authority to decide which teachings of the Catholic Church are “true” and which ones are not.
Finally, the “Abomination of Desolation” occurred twice in Salvation History, TGL. The first time during the period of the Maccabees (cf. 1 Mac. 1:54; 6:7), the second time in the A.D. 60s. It happened in the Jerusalem Temple. The Temple no longer exists, so, looking for this Abomination of Desolation in the future is futile.
The future is not going to look like a Hal Lindsey novel. Don’t believe conspiracy theories that sound like they came from Dan Brown. God Bless!

Posted by Larry on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 11:38 AM (EDT):

The Lord will never permit the Church Magisterium, that is the pope and bishops teaching in union with him, to change Church dogma, as one poster suggests has happened. It’s possible that a pope may express personal opinions that might be in error, but we are not obliged to follow his personal opinions. Charges of heterodoxy against Pope Francis are based either on dishonest media quoting and spinning of his remarks, or a defective understanding of Church dogma—i.e., he either did not say what he supposedly said, or the remarks are not in fact heresies as some mistakenly think. When the Lord said “you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church…” and “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it,” he meant that the pope and bishops in union with him would NEVER declare any error to be binding dogma, or any immorality to be absolutely morally licit. It will NOT happen. No layman is empowered by the Lord to declare the pope to have forfeited his office or to have been unqualified to accept his office for any reason. Much less is anyone allowed to say that the Lord’s promise to guard his Church against error has somehow been transferred to some other corporate body outside the visible Roman Catholic Church, unbeknownst to the vast majority of us. If you say that you judge the See of Rome to be vacant because you judge the pope to be in heresy, then you are in schism pure and simple. If you do not repent of that in this life, the ultimate destination is hell.

Posted by Tom in AZ on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:44 AM (EDT):

@Randy: The church that stopped covering such things up well over a decade ago, while all other institutions continue to cover up, by far worse means (your silence on the Jewish whistle-blower getting bleach thrown in her face is very telling)? The church that, even at its worst, not only had a lower rate of abuse than many other institutions, but a lower rate than FATHERS? The church that, had it followed its own rules rather than listening to people like yourself, would have had absolutely no abuse, let alone any coverup?
-
Yeah, I mean, there’s absolutely no moral authority there—“Everything happened exactly as we would expect if its conception of human behavior were correct”, that’s certainly rational grounds for rejecting a theory. “It has the absolute lowest rate of this bad behavior of any institution in the world”—that certainly suggests you should listen to all those other, worse institutions first, about the behavior in question.
-
Again: There is a word for people that judge one group more harshly than another, for things the first group does LESS than the second. The word is “bigot”.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:29 AM (EDT):

Jesus spoke against homosexuality. He restricted sex to marriage between a man and woman only. He condemned adultery. He condemned fornication. So sex is to happen only in marriage which is open to the procreation of children in the sexual act. This excludes all other forms of sex, including sodomy. But people like Nick are more Catholic than the pope, and if Jesus did not explicitly condemn it in the Gospel it must not be true. “Jesus did many other things as well. If they were all to be written down, I do not think all the books in the World would condemn them” (John 21:25). Sacred Tradition is just as authoritative as Sacred Scripture (2 The 2:15). You are bound by both, including those things taught by the Apostles that are not in the Gospels.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:21 AM (EDT):

@Nick I said I am more Catholic than the pope? Did you ever study theology? I doubt it. If so, tell me the difference between the Ordinary Magisterium and the Extraordinary Magisterium. Can the pope err in the Ordinary Magisterium? My prediction is you will not address these doctrinal issues but will evade with default idioms and figures of speech. Can the pope err? If so, under what conditions? Of course, being not trained in theology you will evade. If this is indeed true, Get behind me Satan!

Posted by Sean on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:19 AM (EDT):

Pope Francis communicates in Jesuit-speak, purposefully vague.
Thus, it is usually unoffensive and can easily be defended as being misquoted.
Four years of (good) Jesuit education helps with interpreting some of his talks.
PF does no one any favors with his lack of clarity, except of course, his explainers in the Catholic press.
PF also chooses to use the word ‘gay’ when he means ‘homosexual’, as does Russell, who has posted above this one.
Homosexual is the orientation. ‘Gay’ is a lifestyle. It is the lifestyle which is always sinfull.

Posted by Guest on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 8:14 AM (EDT):

Tony,

True love never lies or deflects, or ignores the truth. Come on.

Posted by J. P. Hamilton on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 1:14 AM (EDT):

Read the writings from the Blessed Mother to Fr Gobbi everyone.

Posted by J. P. Hamilton on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 1:13 AM (EDT):

I also believe that many of the Cardinals who voted for this man, Bergoglio, are also Impostors. Do your homework on Ecclesiastical Masonry within the Vatican and you would do well to realize why it has infested the church in the first place. I won’t bother to state the obvious. If you still disagree with me that the Church is in poor-spiritual-health, then I challenge you to become aware of how the majority of clergy do not speak one word against Abortion from the pulpit in a calendar year. Shameful.

Posted by The Good Life on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 1:03 AM (EDT):

Nick, if one detects heresy by the Bishop of Rome and for that reason one does not accept him as the Pope, I believe that the person becomes a Sedevacaniste. I still accept the ‘true’ teachings of the church. If however that Pope then changes church dogma so that it is no longer ‘the truth of God’, then it can no longer be the accepted as being infallible. I also believe that a small ‘Remnant’ of true followers of Roman Catholic Church will now arise and continue with the Traditions of the Church with Jesus Christ as it’s head. Go and read up on the ‘Abomination of Desolation’ and work out for yourself the truth of this statement. In order for this to occur within the church something very serious needed to happen with the person occupying the Chair of St Peter. You can accept sin within the hierarchy of the church (The Vatican), but I cannot.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Thursday, Jan 9, 2014 12:18 AM (EDT):

Sorry, TGL, that’s not how it works. To be Catholic, one must be in union with the Bishop of Rome. Otherwise, you are no different than a Protestant. Or, more accurately, you’re no different than Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, or the Kennedy clan of cafeteria “Catholics.” People who call themselves “Catholic,” but, pick & choose what they want to believe.
You have been seriously misinformed about what the Catholic Church teaches.
You left the Catholic Faith when you called yourself a sedevacantist, TGL.
I pray that you find your way back home to Mother Church.
God Bless!

Posted by Tony on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 11:22 PM (EDT):

Ah, but Jesus said nothing about homosexuality…the rest of the bible does, however. What IS clear is that is common sense and basic human compassion to treat gays and kids of gays with as much dignity and respect as possible.At the least one can acknowledge the goodness in the friendships between gays and their efforts to love and care for children. There are real evils and real problems in the world far more distressing than gay marriage. Come on…

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 9:56 PM (EDT):

Yes, I certainly am more catholic than this man sitting in the chair of peter. Saint Peter was ‘of Christ’.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 9:13 PM (EDT):

“I’m not leaving the Roman Catholic Faith, Nick, rather I have evaluated everything this man has said during his papacy and I formed my decision that he is NOT OF GOD.”
So, like D.A.Howard, you think that you’re more “Catholic” than the pope, eh, TGL?

“I could write many examples of what I mean but I’m tired of explaining the basics of the faith.”
Well, you tried with that clap-trap about what Pope Francis said about Our Lady, and I completely refuted that bogus claim.
Just like Dale, you are ignoring Christ’s command to love our neighbors as ourselves and to love our enemies. Being a disciple of Christ means that we must love each other. I pray that you find this out.
God Bless!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 9:04 PM (EDT):

@Mr. Wesley,
The only one of us using venom, in this discussion of ours, is…you.
I agree that homosexuality and same-gender attractions are results of the Fall, which led to all concupiscence. As The Catholic Encyclopedia puts it: “In its widest acceptation, concupiscence is any yearning of the soul for good; in its strict and specific acceptation, a desire of the lower appetite contrary to reason. To understand how the sensuous and the rational appetite can be opposed, it should be borne in mind that their natural objects are altogether different. The object of the former is the gratification of the senses; the object of the latter is the good of the entire human nature and consists in the subordination of reason to God, its supreme good and ultimate end.”

When I have lusted for a woman in my heart, it comes from my disordered desire for the goods of creation. If I don’t restrain my disordered passions, I may act on my desires. This goes for all created things, e.g., food, art, etc. All the pleasures of the senses, really.
Again, from The Catholic Encyclopedia:“But the lower appetite is of itself unrestrained, so as to pursue sensuous gratifications independently of the understanding and without regard to the good of the higher faculties. Hence desires contrary to the real good and order of reason may, and often do, rise in it, previous to the attention of the mind, and once risen, dispose the bodily organs to the pursuit and solicit the will to consent, while they more or less hinder reason from considering their lawfulness or unlawfulness.”

Now, I’ve never thought about touching another man, and, that’s not what I wrote. Nice try, though. I said that the thought of another man touching me disgusts me. Because it’s not natural.
I’ve never been married, by the way. You have now gone from moral relativism to moral superiority. I’m sure your burden is tough, but, resist the temptation to feel superior to all of us other sinners. It is a sin of pride. We are supposed to endure our suffering with gladness and embrace it, remember?
Go back over my comments again, especially, the first one in which I defended you against Dale (you two are two sides of the same coin, in my opinion). Where is this bigotry and hatred that I have to “tend to”?
You’re my brother in Christ and I love you as such. You have been misinformed as to what the Church teaches. I will pray for you. Please, pray for me, a poor sinner.
God Bless!

Posted by James Brady on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:28 PM (EDT):

DANIEL,

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

If you are calling yourself a “theologian”, just remember, they’re a dime a dozen and DO NOT make up the Magisterium (thanks be to God). There are too numerous to count that are heretics.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:12 PM (EDT):

James Brady,

Of course, Daniel had no such document to show us. In fact, the documents specifically mention that the tactics used by the gay lobby are to accuse others of unjust discrimination when they point out the truth.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:10 PM (EDT):

Randy,

How does your logic work? For if we follow your reasoning then we should not accept accept your ideas because you are a personal sinner.

Posted by Randy on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:00 PM (EDT):

It is funy to see the followers of a church which covered up the sex abuse of kids try to say that ssm is wrong. Your god must be able to look the other way

Posted by James Brady on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:00 PM (EDT):

DANIEL,

“I have a graduate degree in theology and am not a silly uneducated Catholic.”

Great! Show me the specific documents/Catechism chapters, etc. (that means specific quotes or references with links, if possible) where the Church “approves” of these relationships as you describe them. Time to prove it.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 7:17 PM (EDT):

Nick and Chris ,
God bless you for standing with Jesus. Do not let the bullies deter you.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 7:10 PM (EDT):

Russell,
Your rants reveals much. The only hatred ac bigotry here are from those bending the truth. Your lies will not stand.

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:50 PM (EDT):

I’m not leaving the Roman Catholic Faith, Nick, rather I have evaluated everything this man has said during his papacy and I formed my decision that he is NOT OF GOD.
Anyone who speaks ambiguously and in riddles and where the doctrine of the congregation for the faith regularly disagrees with his comments, and where he twists the truth of Holy Scripture time and again, is not working for God. I could write many examples of what I mean but I’m tired of explaining the basics of the faith. Even this blog is an insult to God. Same-sex marriage is an Abomination and homos should not be guardians of children. The church is now beginning to implode, however, God has a plan, foretold. A Remnant Army of solid Roman Catholics is rising-up and I am proud to say that I am one :) The church will always be but not as you think. Few today believe in the truths of Catholicism and so God is protecting his church through the hands of those willing to stand-up for the truth. I am doing that to the best of my ability. Am I a sinner-of course. Am I willing to accept sin. Absolutely not.

Posted by chris awo on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:48 PM (EDT):

@The Good Life; as i posted previously if you want another take on how Mother Mary felt at the foot of the cross - http://popeleo13.com/pope/category/message-board/
.
@Russel Wesley; God did not make anyone homosexual. As a result of Original sin committed freely by Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, we all now live with a fallen nature, in a fallen (disordered) world, ruled by fallen (malevolent) angels. This fallen nature, fallen world and fallen angels constitute the source of homosexuality and other sins (and every evil).

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:39 PM (EDT):

Should single people be allowed to adopt children? Be they straight or gay. How about women who just want a kid, and goes out and makes one, with a partner or through IVF? And what if the only one who wants the kid is a gay person? Should the kid then be aborted, AKA Peta, that believes a dead animal is better off than one as a pet. So they kill them. And should we use some form of mind reading machine to verify that any person wanting a child, will be probed to find out if there is the least amount of ever being a thought towards someone on the same sex? There would not be many children if that were the case.

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:35 PM (EDT):

A message to all practicing Homos who are writing on this blog: Evil, no matter how you dress it up, cannot be turned into an act of goodness in the Eyes of God the Father.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:34 PM (EDT):

TGL,
Here is what I wrote about this subject, a few days ago, on Mr. Akin’s article about the loaves and fishes (it is a google translation of the original Spanish):
“Speak representatives of Oceania, Asia, Africa, Europe, North America, Latin America and the Middle East Pope Francisco responds: First of all thank you. Regarding the loaves and fishes would add a caveat: not multiplied no, it’s not true. Just not finished breads. As flour and oil of the widow did not end. Not ended. When you say multiply be confused and believe that magic does not. No, no, that’s just God’s greatness and love you put into our hearts, if we want, we have not finished. Much confidence in this.”

So, as can easily be seen, His Holiness is clarifying that this was not a literal multiplication of the loaves and fishes. As if Christ said some magic words, and “Poof!” there were thousands of loaves and fishes for everyone. Rather, the Apostles distributed the loaves and fishes, they never ran out, and, when they were done, there was so much left over, it filled 12 baskets! Pope Francis is not denying the miracle, he is explaining it.

I’m sorry that you left the Catholic Church, TGL. I’m also sorry that you didn’t believe Christ, when He said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.”
May God Bless you, and, show you the way home.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:32 PM (EDT):

Maybe it is not what God intended, He did not intend on any of the fallen nature on this planet. Because of it all nature is cursed. He intended it all to be perfect. Sin cannot even exist without God. He sustains sin and good. Both. Good, I am glad it creeps you out at the thought of touching a man. Gotta be tough when you pee. I once in the midst of teen peer pressure, kissed a girl, that was 40 years ago, and it still sends shivers up my spine. It was so wrong for me to put her in the midst of this lie. Kinda like if the reverse happened to you when you were 18, doing such with a guy. It is not who and what you are made to be. Hey, did you even take St. Paul’s higher calling, by remaining single, and chaste? If not, why not? Why choose the lower level by taking a spouse? Though he did say that if you burn with ‘carnal fire’ horny, it is better to get married, to have a place for ‘it’. Straight people get a way past the hornies, gay people just gotta, pardon the pun, suck it up, carry our cross. Know what, That makes us a whole lot more righteous and holy, by doing such, carrying our cross. Probably do it a whole lot better than you are at doing such a thing as carrying your cross. Yours might be, tending to your hatred and bigotry. And learning to love and care for others. Maybe a good humbling experience for you to do is to go and volunteer at a hospice that cares for gay people dying of AIDS, and most people who do, by the huge numbers are straight. Maybe some of them got it from a blood transfusion, like Michael White. Or from just sex. Or needles, either in the hospital or in a back alley. I will surly be praying for you. Imagine if Jesus went about with such venom.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:25 PM (EDT):

Daniel,

Again, you are confused on many levels. First, the jamming and deflection are gay agenda techniques. They attempt to misdirect the argument by placing out all these straw men. No one is talking about unjust treatment but we may be talking about persecution complexes, illegitimate suffering, and nuancing Church teaching for an agenda.

So- called gay couples should not be allowed to adopt children. This is Church teaching and common sense. Children have rights!!

The disorientation of homosexual inclination is an objective disorder. It is not oriented toward the good. While it is not sinful it is not normal or consistent with nature. It is pathology.

Read the magisterial document On the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons. It contradicts your agenda.

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:19 PM (EDT):

@Russell Agree with you, however, this pope is ‘acting the goat’ as he twists everything ‘good’ to be sinful and visa versa. The ‘confused’ will be happy with his remarks whether they be in Italian, Spanish, English and no matter who interprets his words, rightly or wrongly. He has an agenda in unison with the freemasons and he will ‘do what he must do’.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:16 PM (EDT):

Mr. Wesley,
Calm down, and enough with the vulgarities, okay? You obviously haven’t read any of my comments on this thread, huh? Too bad.
You are lashing out at the clear teaching of the Catholic Church. Those weren’t my words, they came from the CCC.
And, while you’re at it, enough with the moral equivalency, too, please? You and Daniel both. Same gender attraction is objectively disordered. It is not what God intended (cf. Mt. 19). You were not born that way, no matter what Lady Gaga says!
I’m not married, by the way. And, the thought of another man touching me, quite frankly, disgusts me.
I’m only sharing what Christ’s Church teaches, don’t shoot the messenger. And, watch that temper!
God Bless!

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:10 PM (EDT):

I am glad I have a windows 8, with a moving touch screen, this scroll is getting very very long, takes a while to get to the end.

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:09 PM (EDT):

Jorge Bergoglio accused Mother Mary speaking a lie. The pope said of Mary whilst she meditated below the cross on Calvary that she would have been thinking “Lies! I was deceived!”
I’m sorry but NO MAN OF GOD speaks in this manner. That day I became a sedevacaniste. Get used to this word because it going to become popular.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:07 PM (EDT):

JUST WHERE DO YOU THINK GAY PEOPLE COME FROM? GOD MADE ALL THAT IS SEEN AND UNSEEN. SO WE OBVIOUSLY WERE MADE BY GOD. HE MADE GABRIEL AND HE MADE LUCIFER AND OUR BLESSED MOTHER AND ADOLF HITLER AND POPE JOHN PAUL II AND PAT ROBERTSON AND MOTHER THERSSEA AND JIMMY AND TAMMY BAKER. THE M 31 GALAXEY THE WHOLE UNIVERSE TOO…. NO ONE REPEAT NO ONE OTHER THAN GOD CREATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:59 PM (EDT):

@Nick You may wish to explain to me what in fact he said ?

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:55 PM (EDT):

Nick, just who made the so called faulty ‘retarded person, GOD. did he make a mistake? NO! Who made the Downs Syndrome kid, due to a ,,lets see a faulty gene or Gods will. Who made you with out the gay issue? God. Or are you disturbed by your own thoughts when you see a handsome man. What creeps into you thoughts and fantisies when you are boinking your woman. Do you EVER think of another woman in place of your wife. What will you do when God gives you a kid with whether it be a genetic issue or whatever reason, you get a gay kid. Beat it out of him or her, tell them there is no hope and that God made or allowed them to be that way so they will have to burn in hell. No matter how much they love and serve the Lord? And just what would Jesus say to you right now, in a conversation with him? He would probably rebuke you, and tell you to chill out.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:55 PM (EDT):

“Jorge recently implied that Our Lady said to God at the foot of the cross that God lied to her.”
He did no such thing, TGL. That is a lie, and calumny is a serious sin. I’ll pray for you to stop this sinful behavior. Please, pray for me, a poor sinner myself.
God Bless!

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:51 PM (EDT):

Jorge recently implied that Our Lady said to God at the foot of the cross that God lied to her. Now we have confused homosexuals saying that God made people to be gay. See the damage Jorge is doing and what’s worse, deceived souls believe him. Pray for Bergoglio.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:47 PM (EDT):

And speaking of gay people acting like pigs. Men are men. Most all are pigs, some got it under control, most do not. I have been in straight bars, night clubs, nude beaches, cruise ships, strip bars, and all sorts of places straight people congregate, and I have and heard stuff that makes my eyes and ears burn. Stuff that makes gay people seem much better. Take straight porn, it is so much nastier and dirty and degrading than ANY gay porn ever could be. I know gay people who watch straight porn just because it is so dirty. And straight women who watch gay porn because the men are not ugly like in the straight stuff. Also, Us gay people, when we get a kid, that kid is wanted, a lot. Straight people, well, so many are in broken homes, single parents, IVF kids, and the worst of all is THE MURDER OF COUNTLESS MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF CHILDREN, UNWANTED BECAUSE OF STRAIGHT PEOPLES HORNINESS. THAT ISSO DISGUSTING IT GOES BEOND WORDS. TAKE THE BEAM OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE, THEN YOU CAN TAKE THE SPLINTER OUT OF THE OTHERS EYE.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:42 PM (EDT):

“[God] made gay people to be gay.”
Sorry, Mr. Wesley, that is not the teaching of the Catholic Church:
“Its [homosexuality’s] psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. [...] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.” <strong>- CCC, par. 2357 & 2358
God Bless!

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:37 PM (EDT):

Just how do you expect to find out which persons are gay or lesbian or bi, is beyond me. So many are living a life that is nothing but a lie. That being married in a hetero marriage. A lie to as how God made you and waned you to be. I guess we could use the methods of the Inquisition. Most people are terrified to even mention what they think about sexually in the confession box. Gay people have the easiest, because we know we are gay, and get to accept it. Bi-sexual people have a harder time, torn between the two. Straight people with those little fantasies that creep in, are just tortured in their souls. They know they are straight, yet these thoughts sneak in. How do I tell father in the confessional box. So they do not. Usually the ones, straight ones, that are the most hateful and such towards gay people, is because they cannot come to terms with those little thoughts. Does not mean one has to act on them, they are okay, do not dwell there. We all get weird thoughts.

Posted by The Good Life on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:36 PM (EDT):

The Saints pray for ‘a hatred of Sin’. Nobody here I’m sure hate Homosexuals rather they hate the grotesque sin that they do, and then to flaunt it in the streets, Yes, I HATE THAT. Hatred means to hold a deep-rooted dislike of something. As a practicing Catholic I have a God-0given right to hate sam-sex relationships and marriage. I also hate same-sex sexual relationships. I also know that these people should not be allowed to bring-up a child while living in sin.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:28 PM (EDT):

Daniel, you are making good sense. I as a gay person, knows you cannot ‘pray the gay away’ that is like a midget ’ praying the shortness away’ or a person born with no arms ’ praying them to be there’ Yes, everything is possible with God. But God don’t make junk. He wanted that midget to be a midget, [they will have a shorter cross, but still a cross] He wanted and made that person with no arms, to have no arms. [ got to find another way to carry their cross, but still has to carry it ] He made gay people to be gay. [ a cross to bear ] He made straight people straight. [ they got a cross to bear too ]

Posted by The Dungeon on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:15 PM (EDT):

Same-Sex marriage IS paganism. It is NOT accepted in the Eyes of God the Father. NEVER EVER accept Homosexuality as having any form of good because it’s an ABOMINATION in God’s Eyes.

Posted by Fred Flinstone II on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:10 PM (EDT):

Paganism: To create and honor a god which is created by the hands of man.
Evil, no matter how it is dressed up, cannot be turned into an act of goodness in the Eyes of God the Father. He will punish those who continue to flaunt their sins before Him.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:10 PM (EDT):

“Can the pope err at the Ordinary Magisterial level?”
I have never claimed otherwise, D.A.Howard.“Does the pope epitomize what is means to be Catholic?”
Well, he is Christ’s Vicar on earth. He is the shepherd of the Catholic flock. You should fear attacking the Holy Father unjustly, D.A.Howard.“It seems you do not understand the Catholic Faith.”
I don’t claim to be any expert on the Faith. But, I recognize heterodox views, when I read them.
God Bless!

Posted by David on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:06 PM (EDT):

Man - I’m really regretting not unchecking the “notify me of follow-up comments.” You guys are ridiculous. The attitudes on here are exactly what gives us Catholics a bad rap. Some of you on this Comment Section need more Grace and Mercy from God then an active Gay person. You speak in the name of the Lord but your words are those of Evil and Hate. More then a few of you are going to regret the time you spent on here blaspheming the Pope and spreading uncharitableness. I don’t know what book you all are reading but in mine Jesus did not shun Sinners… he shunned the Pharisees that sat in judgment of others because their sins and of breaking the “law.” Jesus’s choice was always to sit with the Prostitutes, the Tax Collectors, and the “unclean.” What some of you are doing is more in line with the Pharisees then then the actually will of Jesus. I pray for you all and I hope that the Lord’s mercy is as kind to you as it will be to the ones you persecute.

I would suggest looking at the verse below and contemplating - Am I being more like Jesus here or the Pharisees before you post again?

Mark 2 16-17
Some scribes who were Pharisees saw that he was eating with sinners and tax collectors and said to his disciples, “Why does he eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
Jesus heard this and said to them [that], “Those who are well do not need a physician,* but the sick do. I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:57 PM (EDT):

“Chris,we are not to reject there [sic] homosexual orientation, only the homosexual activity.”- Daniel
“This inclination [homosexual tendencies], which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.” - CCC, par. 2358

Posted by Fred Flinstone II on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:49 PM (EDT):

@Daniel Hahaaa haaa !! Were you there ? LOL

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:45 PM (EDT):

No Fred, its called denial.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:44 PM (EDT):

To: irksome1,

Thank you, for your eloquent comments. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Posted by Fred Flinstone II on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:42 PM (EDT):

Gift of the Holy Spirit: ~ ‘Right Judgement’

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:40 PM (EDT):

To Fred Flinstone II,

The reason you never heard of them was not because they weren’t present, it was because it was brushed under the rug and was never talked about.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:36 PM (EDT):

Chris,

You don’t pray the gay away. It doesn’t work. It is not about handling the issue with kid gloves. So I am to understand that your sin of bigotry and prejudice is one of the acceptable sins even though it, as you say, smacks in the face of the Church teaching. There are so many things wrong with what you said—your unwillingness to look beyond the stereotypes about gays, only being one of them. Oh, incidentally, extra marital affairs with heterosexual men is also at an all time high. But I guess that is acceptable because they are straight. Extra marital affairs are wrong no matter if they are gay or straight.

Posted by Fred Flinstone II on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:32 PM (EDT):

When my wife Wilma and I lived together with family all those years ago, in the stone-age, we never even considered same-sex anything. Nobody in our time gave it a thought because it would have been a no-brainer. Barney’s views were the same as mine.

Posted by Johnny on the Spot on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:17 PM (EDT):

Bisexuals. Those who like ‘a bet each way’ as it were. What about them ? Why hasn’t Jorge spoken about them ? They are a man and a woman living together as though they were a ‘normal couple’, but are aren’t. What about their ‘confused’ children, naturally conceived, but born into ‘sin’ when one or other parent continues their preferred inordinate sexual preference. I know just a man. He used to attend his protestant church and played guitar until he said he realized that ‘church was messing up his head’. He talks me down if I ever mention the beauty of Christianity. I believe that his continued sexual experiences with males despite his apparent ‘normal relationship’ with a woman. They have a girl aged about 6. God help her (and them).

Posted by chris awo on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:10 PM (EDT):

If a Christian or Catholic is suffering from same-sex attraction let him pray it away. No apologies. Enough of handling with kid gloves, a grave sin that is despised by our Triune God and the holy Angels and holy Saints. Enough of cuddling the homosexual sin. Enough of accommodating that which is nauseating to the Heavenly Host.
.
If you want to be with the Lord Jesus forever get rid of anything that smacks of homosexuality in thought and actions.
.
On this issue there is no neutrality. We are all going to have to choose between the Will of God and the will of those allied with the ancient serpent.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:53 PM (EDT):

Chris,we are not to reject there homosexual orientation, only the homosexual activity.

Posted by chris awo on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:51 PM (EDT):

@ Daniel writes - The CCC states clearly that we are to welcome and embrace all gay people.
.
We are to welcome and embrace every human being because they are made in the image and likeness of God. We are to welcome every human being notwithstanding their issues and temptations. BUT we are not to welcome their homosexuality. We are to reject their homosexuality. We are to discourage the kind of intimacy you describe which sounds like occasions of sin. If you are a Catholic or Christian you have no choice but to obey the Law of God as clearly stated in the Sacred Scriptures and Tradition.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:35 PM (EDT):

No James, I am not confused. But it is clear that you are. Nobody is talking about playing “mommy and daddy”. I have worked in inpatient mental health for many years. I see people who so shamed for being gay that they make multiple attempts at suicide - and often go through with it. I have never met anyone who wanted to be gay. I have met people who have come to terms with it. There are young teenagers that are kicked out of their home into the streets by their so-called loving “Christian” parents for being gay. All people go through adolescence. Heterosexual teens are able to be guided and walked through the normal process of becoming sexual beings, although in recent years that has kind of been de-railed as well. Gay teens have no guidance other than people shaming them for being gay. It isn’t even about having sex. Those gay teems and parents who finally come to an acceptance of the sexual orientation, realizing that it is a tough cross to carry, can proceed into a life that is meaningful. They learn about intimacy on a little different level. Learning that falling in love is a normal and necessary part of maturing. Again, this is not about having sex. They learn about compassion and love for others who suffer in a way that few others can. The flamboyant gay is really the minority of the gay population. We have an epidemic of gay people being in heterosexual marriages because they have felt so shamed by the Christian coalition that they have swallowed and denied who they are and have gone into a straight union because they don’t want to be ridiculed. Most always, this ends in disaster. James, we as Catholic Christian community as well as other Christian communities, have to face its own sin of ridicule and bigotry. Again, James, I am not talking about sexual activity of gay people. The CCC states clearly that we are to welcome and embrace all gay people and bring them into the community. It also states that all prejudice and bigotry is a sin. Again, James, this is messy. Things are not always nice and neat as you would like. It is so important that we help our brothers and sisters in our faith communities find acceptance - yes - while following the Church teaching. Can a gay couple adopt children? Yes, I believe they can. The couples I know are very aware of the importance of having the influence of both male and female role models. Many of the gay people come from big families with sisters and brothers who are very involved in the children’s life. Many have good friends straight and gay who help out. Is it perfect? No. But neither are many many straight families. Most gay people, James, are not part of your stereotypes. Most gay people are not involved in orgies, multiple partners, etc. Oh, wait, there are many straight people who engage in those practices. Yes, that is horrible and sinful. But sin not only falls in just one orientation, it is across the board. The Gospel calls for conversion from all that, but it doesn’t call sexual orientation a sin. I sincerely hope that if you have children, that none of them ever turn out to be gay. Because I don’t think you could handle those issues. Life is not nice and neat like the old “Donna Reed Show” or the the 1950’s.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:25 PM (EDT):

@Nick. Can the pope err at the Ordinary Magisterial level? Yes. Does the pope epitomize what is means to be Catholic? No. Orthopraxy, Orthodoxy. The pope can err in his application of doctrine. Look at Pope John Paul II… he said the Gulf War was wrong, then nine months later changed his mind. It seems you do not understand the Catholic Faith. Perhaps Jimmy can educate you about these terms. I do not have the time.

Posted by Johnny on the Spot on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:22 PM (EDT):

@Daniel We need to emphasize the loving beauty of a normal relationship between a man and a woman. Your idea of the perfect, pure homosexual catholic ‘couple’ is ridiculous. We’ve all seen by now how the gays behave like animals when they congregate. For the few that are trying to live celibate lives, well done. This is what God calls you to do. The same for men who lust after woman, God calls them to lead celibate lives, until they marry.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:21 PM (EDT):

@Flip Van Dyke I disagree. I think he is very ignorant. He is a terrible interviewer and calls previous popes narcissists? Does that include Pope John Paul II and John XXIII whom he is about to canonize?

He already admitted his errors in a letter to Archbishop Marchetto. Nothing more needs to be said. Thankfully, he did not try to teach his errors Magisterially. I think he is manifesting grave scandal to the faithful by calling traditionalists (and I am not one) small-minded retrogrades. If that is the kind of dialogue he wants to engage in, I have a nickname for him…Pope Honorius.

Posted by Grey Ghost on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 3:12 PM (EDT):

The children of ‘same sex’ sin have no one to defend them, unfortunately because they’ve been taken by the enemy.

Posted by Grey Ghost on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:45 PM (EDT):

Darkness has descended over the world at this time. Floods, fires, earthquakes, storms, tsunamis, plaques, famine, war etc is happening everywhere as foretold of the END of the TIMES. The Chair of Peter is vacant, and Jimmy Akin is defending Jorge to the hilt; why ? Good question.

Posted by Grey Ghost on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:41 PM (EDT):

@tg Jimmy doesn’t write about things the pope said that cannot be defended here; why ? Good question. Besides, the liberals would have a field day and the Masons would laugh ALL DAY.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:39 PM (EDT):

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted by Daniel on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:17 PM (EST):

EWTN and the Catholic Register isn’t going to be satisfied until Pope Francis says that all homosexuality is evil and should be condemned. But he is not saying that. It appears that EWTN and the Catholic Register want only the very harsh truth to be told. But Pope Francis isn’t doing that. Pope Francis is NOT changing Church teaching on homosexual acts, but is approaching this subject with humility and compassion. He knows well the damage the Church has done to those who have been asked to carry the cross of homosexuality. The Church wants them to be embraced and loved not singled out. I know homosexual couples who are committed Catholics and are in a committed relationship and who follow the Church teaching of not having sex with their partners. They have a loving and affectionate relationship - yet, stay within the Church teaching. All people need to be loved and to love. It is not good for them to be alone. Instead of always emphasizing what homosexuals cannot do, we need to emphasize what they can do and we need to foster that honest loving relationship. Regarding gay adoption. I know that I would rather be adopted by some wonderful same-sex couples I know than to end up in the foster care system of this country. We keep going on and on that there needs to be both a mother and a father in order for a healthy children to grow and develop appropriately, however, we don’t seem to have any problem with single mothers or fathers adopting children. Isn’t that a counter-diction? I am a devout Catholic. I love the Church and I love Pope Francis for trying to reach out in love to all people. We as a faith-filled Catholics, need to get over ourselves.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You are very confused.

First, single parents have nothing in common with “gay” persons pretending to be mom and day. A single parent is a mom or dad. Period. “Gay” parents pretend to be both. That is absurd. Two same sex persons acting like a married couple is a form of moral violence.

Secondly, The Church speaks of disinterested friendships in regard to the pastoral care of homosexual persons. Two men mimicking a male and female, regardless of genital activity, is not consistent with nature.

Would two bothers hold hands and cuddle?

You do no favors to these struggling people by mis-stating Church teaching and nuancing the moral law.

The Pope is a faithful son of the Church. He embraces all that has been taught. Go to the Vatican website and read the documents yourself about this topic. They do not reflect your particular bias.

Posted by Guest on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:19 PM (EDT):

Daniel,

The Pope is Catholic. He does not buy your propaganda.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:19 PM (EDT):

“I have a graduate degree in theology and am not a silly uneducated Catholic.”
And, yet, you continue to misspell the word “genital,” eh, Daniel?

People of the same gender CANNOT enjoy the same intimacy that a man & woman, joined in Holy Matrimony, can. It is impossible. It would be a false intimacy.
You don’t seem to understand the Catholic Church’s teaching on chastity, either. It is not merely abstaining from sexual contact. “Married people are called to live conjugal chastity; others practice chastity in continence [...].”
Learn more about the chaste life, here:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
God Bless!

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 1:54 PM (EDT):

For JAMES BRADY

Mr. Brady, it is clear to me that it is YOU who are off in left field. Intimacy and love do not require physical genitel activity. It is also clear that this is more of an emotional issue for you rather than a theological one. I stand by what I say. I have studied this issue quite for quite some time and NO, I a not playing into the hands of the popular culture. I have a graduate degree in theology and am not a silly uneducated Catholic. Pope Francis himself would not find fault with what I have said. Gay couples who are committed to each other and live according to the teachings of the Church (no sex), understand clearly what it means to sacrifice. These particular men that I am speaking of are men of deep faith in God and truly love the Church. I would trust my life with them. They understand the teaching of the Church regarding this better than you. They are making the best out of a situation they have been handed. They also understand what scandal means. However, their commitment to each other speaks to me more clearly about complete surrender to God than many heterosexual marriages. I would have absolutely no problem with them adopting children, because I know that they would be raised with deep Christian/Catholic values. You need to quit making everything on this issue about sex. Is it messy at times? Yes, of course. But it isn’t against Church teaching.

Posted by tg on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 1:22 PM (EDT):

“Our Lady was human! And perhaps she even had the desire to say: ‘Lies!” - I’d like to hear Jimmy’s explanation on that one too. How about also explaining why Pope as Cardinal in Argentina allowed a Tango dance in front of church altar. This explaining what the pope meant is becoming a joke.

Posted by James Brady on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:12 AM (EDT):

DANIEL,

You’ve off the reservation again and been duped by the evil one to think

“They can cuddle, walk together on the beach arm in arm as long as ther is no gentile activity—and yes it is possible and does happen.” is acceptable.

This is such BS. This “activity” can never be condoned. Unlike heterosexuality, this is an aberration and an offense against natural and divine law.

Posted by ghostbuster on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 8:09 AM (EDT):

Why doesn’t the Pope just excommunicate all who are homosexual or lesbian. What a difference that would make!!! When Christ established the church he wanted repentance of those who were living in sin. He was angry with the money changers at the temple who were not living for God and took a whip and struck them until they were gone.
Remember Sodom and Gommara? ALL homos and lesbes were burned along with their children. Of course, we are not allowed to kill anyone unless for a just reason. In that case EXCOMMUNICATION WILL DO!! Get them OUT of the Catholic schools so that they do not corrupt the normal children.

Posted by T. on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 6:16 AM (EDT):

If pope Francis had been elected to pope before the era of internet, it was no problem with his remarks but nowadays these remarks can easily be misinterpreted and perverted by liberal media, and these liberal media do this conciously and eagerly. Thus it is not the pope who the phalse prophet is but the liberal media!

Posted by Grey Ghost on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 5:28 AM (EDT):

Google: Remnant TV - The Remnant Forum. The Vatican is descending into chaos under Jorge. He’s a mason working with masons to destroy the church.

Posted by Grey Ghost on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 4:45 AM (EDT):

The Remnant Army is Rising-Up and will continue the Truth of Catholicism under the guidance of Saint Peter and the Command of God the Father. The times foretold are here, they’ve arrived. The Antichrist is about to reveal himself and he will work in tandem with the False Prophet who sits now in the Chair of Peter. DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY DARKNESS. Anyone one with eye, pay attention to his twisted version of the truth and soon lies in the place of true dogma. He will build a new all encompassing protestant church under the flag of the Catholic Church, which will from now on be only a Remnant. Be very careful from here on in.

Posted by Daniel on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:34 AM (EDT):

Response to James Brady.

Mr. Brady, it makes no difference if the relationship is exclusive or not, if there is no sexual activity, there is not a problem with theChurch or anything else. They can cuddle, walk together on the beach arm in arm as long as ther is no gentile activity—and yes it is possible and does happen.

Daniel

Posted by Marcus on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:22 AM (EDT):

Daniel: Regarding gay adoption. I know that I would rather be adopted by some wonderful same-sex couples I know than to end up in the foster care system of this country.

Me: Wonderful same-sex couples? What sort of message does that give to a growing child. What kind of morality is that communicating to the child? You want a child to be reared in an intrinsically immoral environment? That is just plain sick.

Posted by Marcus on Wednesday, Jan 8, 2014 2:15 AM (EDT):

SCC: What if the first thing people experienced when they meet us is Christ’s love. We could transform the world!

Me: Yes, indeed. But what is CHRIST’S LOVE? I think Pope Benedict said it well, it must be grounded on Truth because Christ is Truth.

The kind of soppy love is over abundant in the world and sadly that is what we think love is. One that is afraid of hurting someone’s feelings so will not speak the truth boldly. But it is not without reason that Christ called the devil the father of lies. And that is what abounds in the world today - lies. And this cannot be countered with mush. Love would be the proclamation of Truth boldly but gently. It is not loving to leave people imprisoned in the darkness of father of lies.

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 9:35 PM (EDT):

Watch out for the ‘twisted doctrine’ about to be introduced by Jorge and his masonry sect.

Posted by Guest on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 8:47 PM (EDT):

What is a platonic committed relationship and how is that different from the disinterested friendships the Vatican speaks of in Church documents?

Posted by James Brady on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 8:02 PM (EDT):

“Platonic committed friendships”

If there is a “committed” friendship, you leave the statement open to interpretation. In connotes exclusivity and thus means it’s NOT just a “friendship”. Please dispense with such characterizations! Thank you

Posted by Russell Wesley on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 7:14 PM (EDT):

Gee whiz, this is going on a long long time, it is now taking a long scroll of the screen to get to the bottom. Maybe Jimmy Akin should make the comment boxes only go on for about 25, then reset. This is interesting.

Posted by James Brady on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 6:04 PM (EDT):

DANIEL,

“Platonic committed friendships (which is what I am talking about with two people of the same sex)”

Had you said that in the first place, I wouldn’t have commented. Thanks for clarifying.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 5:00 PM (EDT):

Oops! That should have been: Also, Christ said that the powers of death (i.e., Satan) would NOT prevail against His Church.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 4:57 PM (EDT):

“They stood up—you’re bowing down.”Excuse me? To whom am I bowing, Dale? I bow to Christ Jesus!
I am not standing up for homosexuality, nor, do I have a “love for tolerance.” I do not tolerate sin, and, speak out against sin whenever someone tries to justify or rationalize it. As I am rebuking your sinful act of condemning people, rather than their sins, only.
Not very charitable or humble of you, Dale. We are ALL sinners. Are we not? Why are your sins forgiven, but not repentant people with same-gender attraction? Or, repentant thieves and murderers?“But I really do appreciate that you do stand up for this belief.”
My belief is in the teachings of the Catholic Church, Dale. How about your’s? I’m glad that you are starting to “respect” me. You have to start somewhere, right? Ha-ha!“However, according to my sources, you aren’t wrong… just over extending a bit.”
Well, your “sources” are wrong, I’m afraid. My sources are the Sacred Scriptures, Sacred Tradition, and the Magisterium. What are your’s? And they say that we are supposed to love our enemies, no matter what they do. This is very hard, especially for people like Charles Manson and al Qaeda terrorists. We can only love them by the Grace of God. Not by ourselves.
Just as we can do nothing without God.“Although I would martyr, I would hope I don’t allow it to get to that point and I won’t allow the Faith and Christ’s one true church to be sacrificed for those who mean to kill it.”
How about listening to God’s plan for you, instead of doing your own will, Dale? If it is God’s will for you to suffer martyrdom, a Christian is supposed to embrace it. Also, Christ said that the powers of death (i.e., Satan) would prevail against His Church. Don’t you believe Him?Be Not Afraid!

Posted by Daniel on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 4:27 PM (EDT):

To James Brady -

When I spoke about about same-sex couples having a loving relationship without having sex.

You stated, Impossible. The “relationship” you described is problematic and, you guessed it, it’s a scandal to the faithful as well as the near occasion of sin. Can’t get around that one.

Intimacy take many good and healthy forms that are all within Church teaching. I have studied this. No, James, you are the one who is wrong. You say its a scandal. Then all forms of existence according to you, other than heterosexual marriage is a scandal. Platonic committed friendships (which is what I am talking about with two people of the same sex) then, scandalize the faith community. Homosexual activity (not orientation) may be frowned upon by Jesus, but so too, would the way you seem to place all intimate relationships in the form of sexual activity. It isn’t always nice and easy, it requires prayer, reflection, study and counsel.

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 4:00 PM (EDT):

Tinfoil hat alert!!!!!!!

I am amazed at the either or fallacy. Either you show compassion, mercy & Christian Charity toward gays(as commanded by the Gospel and Tradition) & in so doing “condone” their activities or you treat them like the filth you think they are & “follow” the Gospel?

Some of you people have worst moral and spiritual problems then some poor gay dude or chick.

Posted by chris awo on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 3:31 PM (EDT):

@BenYachov rampant homosexuality is the devil’s calling card. To engage in homosexual acts is to have the Mark of the Beast (666) on the hand. To condone homosexual acts is to have the Mark of the Beast (666) on the forehead. www.prophetamos3m.com
Really i am amazed at the way some people are treating this issue with levity. We are living witnesses to what was prophesied in the Book of Revelation. And yet many are headed for a slow-motion fatal accident.
Mother Mary, pray for us.

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 1:10 PM (EDT):

>You’re a riot there Ben Yachov twinkle toes! Nice try. I see how the once faithful now sees the faithful as bad and the pervert as great. All in the name of their new god “tolerance.”

Someone is on the rag.

>BenYachov, such negativity and vitriol only stains and blemishes the truth of Christianity.

BenNotYachov I am merely treating Dale with the same “tough love” he believes Francis should employ. Let’s see if he is man enough to take what he can dish out.

I know he is not.

Posted by Ben in Maine on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 1:06 PM (EDT):

Geo: “This man is not helping the Church.”

Perhaps one of the worst statements I’ve seen on this board. Mass numbers have been rocketing upwards since Pope Francis took the helm. Check.

If you want this Pope to expres Pharisees-like outrage, you are going to miss out. There is no Pope Francis train stopping by Bitter station.

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 1:06 PM (EDT):

Lev. 20:13

Btw, since Catholics don’t believe in this Sola Scriptura & couple Tradition with Scripture I should point out the Rabbis where notoriously anti-Death penalty at least on paper.

There are no examples of persons being put to death for homosexual conduct in the Mishnah or the Talmud. The way the OT law was structured it was virtually impossible to do.

Also according to Mosaic Tradition if witnesses catch two men in the act of Sodomy they can warn them they are violating the Law of Moses & merit death. If the two stop then no punishment is given. At trial if it can be shown the perps did not hear the warning they must be let go.

BTW only a certain sex act between Men merits the death penalty that was never given. Other sex acts & Lesbianism are classified as licentiousness
and not an “abomination”.

Not all gay men do the “abomination” thingy I don’t want to say out loud.

Some perspective.

Posted by Ben in Maine on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 1:00 PM (EDT):

*quote

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:59 PM (EDT):

You’re a riot there Ben Yachov twinkle toes! Nice try. I see how the once faithful now sees the faithful as bad and the pervert as great. All in the name of their new god “tolerance.”

Posted by Larry on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:58 PM (EDT):

Thanks to Russell Wesley for his deeply personal story. Only God judges souls, and he told us in the Gospels that much will be forgiven for one who has loved much—and “loved”, of course, in the proper Christian sense of having given generously of himself, as your stepdad did. I would be a bit more concerned for your biological father because of his being “out of the picture” your whole life—though again, we do the praying ourselves and leave the judging to God. I once read that the door to God’s mercy is easily pushed open, so that a small child or an old man can enter—but the door to his justice he keeps locked and barred so that only he can open it. I am a bit puzzled by your remark about Jesus’ family: “Jesus had a bit of a not so regular family situation. His family accepted him, those brothers/cousins/sisters, we know cousins, they even James came around. The kids know, just don’t need their noses rubbed in it.” There’s no evidence I can see in Scripture that prior to Jesus’ public ministry, ANYONE besides Himself, Mary or Joseph knew that Joseph was not Jesus’ natural father. First only Mary knew, then an angel told Joseph in a dream. Prior to the dream, Joseph had carefully considered the situation and decided to divorce her “quietly.” It does not say that he consulted with anyone else in coming to this decision—so by the time of the angel’s visit to him in a dream, we still may have only Mary and Joseph knowing. Since Mary did not tell Joseph what Gabriel had told her—and since Joseph decided to divorce her “quietly,” we can infer that these two were not blabbermouths. Since Joseph had to find out from the angel, Mary almost certainly did not tell Elizabeth. As betrothed persons, sexual relations would have been legal—so Jesus’ birth 9 months later should not have raised eyebrows. We know that the Church preached Mary’s perpetual virginity from the beginning of its ministry—so at some point, the information was made public by Christ and the Apostles, we just don’t know exactly when. I would doubt that anyone knew or suspected that Joseph was not the natural father of Jesus at any time when the Lord was growing up—and probably not before he publicly revealed his identity as the Messiah. So there was nothing outwardly “not so regular” about his family situation, and nothing inwardly either, since Jesus’ conception by the Holy Spirit instead of Joseph was not the decision either of Mary or Joseph—unlike the modern parents of whom we speak.

Posted by Ben in Maine on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:58 PM (EDT):

>>Get off your Protestant wannabe arse & go read the Desert Fathers specifically the unedited versions and learn some authentic Catholic Tradition for once in your sad sack life. <<

BenYachov, such negativity and vitriol only stains and blemishes the truth of Christianity. Like the Desert Fathers you uote, hy not head to the wilderness for a moment and try to find the peace of God. God bless.

Posted by Ben in Maine on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:53 PM (EDT):

Before you log out today, make sure you perform an act of goodness for another person. Despite all of the electronic furor, you can not neglect your physical mission as Christians. Homosexual acts lead to perdition, but so does neglecting the widow and orphan.

God bless.

Posted by BenYachov on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:49 PM (EDT):

Stop being such a drama queen Dale and man up. Your measure of Pope Francis & finding him wanting because the usual suspects in the clueless media who hated his predecessors have not yet got around to realizing he is not their Pope John XXIV fantasy is all together too tedious.

Francis at this stage mirrors the life of Our Lord. The same media idiots who are throwing palms at his feet will one day shout “Crucify him! Give us Barabbas!”.

Francis’ way of dealing with those who are knee deep in Sodomy is the correct one and the Traditional one.

Get off your Protestant wannabe arse & go read the Desert Fathers specifically the unedited versions and learn some authentic Catholic Tradition for once in your sad sack life.

The compassion and charity they showed to Monks caught in homosexual acts in the fourth century makes Pope Francis look like bloody Fred Phelps.

Francis is whom God wants to be Pope at this time. Your fear is not from God. Perfect love casts out fear.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:47 PM (EDT):

Nick, all in all, I am starting to respect you… not your viewpoint. But I really do appreciate that you do stand up for this belief. However, according to my sources, you aren’t wrong… just over extending a bit. Our Faith is clearly on the chopping block. Although I would martyr, I would hope I don’t allow it to get to that point and I won’t allow the Faith and Christ’s one true church to be sacrificed for those who mean to kill it. And that is from within and without the church.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:40 PM (EDT):

Nick, you have it backwards. They stood up—you’re bowing down. Love is not fluffy twinkle toes—it’s not that kind. And yes, I set up a situation to ask how far you want to take it, as the great apostasy is taking place, how far are you going lovey dovey and stand UP for homosexuality etc? How far does your “love of tolerance” go? People who spend their lives bowing to those taking them down are not usually the ones who stand up in the end. The coward dies many times before his death.

Posted by chris awo on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:36 PM (EDT):

Love your neighbor: they were made in the image and likeness of God, but DON"T LOVE their homosexuality. Love your human enemies but DON’T LOVE your satanic enemies. Any human being who allies himself with the satanic forces will suffer the same fate as them.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:35 PM (EDT):

Dale,
We are supposed to imitate the saints. Many of the saints died rather than deny Christ. So, how you come-up with something so convoluted as, “Will you denounce Christ so you show you love them and in the name of Christ?” is beyond me.
And you criticize me for not thinking logically. We are supposed to put Christ above everything, even our lives. Are the Christians who are being murdered in Syria, because they won’t deny that Christ is God, being un-Christian?
How am I “appeasing evil”, by the way? I will always denounce evil, and have, on this thread. You are the one disobeying Christ’s command to love your enemies and neighbors.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:01 PM (EDT):

I don’t think Christ intended for us to appease evil with the intention of someday becoming a martyr for Him. When they say “Hate Christ if you love us!” Will you do their wish so that you remain in step with your interpretation of overtolerance and the Faith? Will you denounce Christ so you show you love them and in the name of Christ?

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:59 AM (EDT):

So love, as meant in Holy Scripture, to you, means let them burn down your religion and kill you while you genuflect to their hatred? If that was the case, I doubt Christ would have been crucified. I think its a little deeper than walking around in fluffy ways with twinkle toes on everyone. There is standing up to wrong, not genuflecting to evil.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:57 AM (EDT):

“Does that sound like Christ’s intention?”
Yes, it does, Dale.
I pray often (not as often as I should, though) for the kind of faith that is able to endure martyrdom. The martyrs themselves prayed for the privilege to die for Christ. Do you, Dale?
The blood of the martyrs is the seed of the Church, according to Tertullian.
If you aren’t willing to die for your faith in Christ, you are too attached to the world and worldly things. Death is not the worst thing that can happen to you. Christ conquered death, remember?
We are dealing with spiritual warfare, which may become physical warfare. It is for Christians in Syria, Iraq, and Egypt, right now. They need our prayers, more than ever!
Again, you are ignoring Christ command to love your neighbors & enemies, Dale. Why?

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:52 AM (EDT):

Overtolerance is not love. It’s death. Christ was not of death. Martyrs did not tolerate which is why they had to be killed for standing up—not standing down to appease those who hate Christ and His teachings! They talk about this on Station of the Cross all the time… it’s a gross misconception of love and tolerance.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:48 AM (EDT):

nick, the major difference is that they were in a different world. They didn’t give up power to hand it to the antiChrist. They stood up FOR Christ and died FOR Him. We are weakening to appease evil. That is not martyrdom and does not have anything to do with love, but weakness. Are you going to wait until you can do IS be a martyr by the time you “tolerate” them to your own death? Does that sound like Christ’s intention?

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:45 AM (EDT):

Oops! That last sentence should read: Whoever taught you differently, was NOT teaching what Christ taught, I’m afraid.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:42 AM (EDT):

“Nick, I give you credit for at least standing up for what you believe and you do seem to believe.”
I believe EVERYTHING that the Catholic Church teaches, Dale.“That is not the same—you don’t love someone trying to kill you, for example, at that point you are committing suicide which is a mortal sin.”
I guess all of those martyrs got it wrong, according to you, Dale? Have you ever read the account of Saint Ignatius’ martyrdom?
You are defying Christ’s commandment. We are commanded to love our enemies, especially those that hate us. Whoever taught you differently, was teaching what Christ taught, I’m afraid.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:35 AM (EDT):

Nick, I give you credit for at least standing up for what you believe and you do seem to believe. But you don’t stand loving people who hate you in the way this is being exhaustedly overused. We are tolerating hatred that is of a spirit of darkness whose goal is to keep pushing that line of “tolerance” (not in the Saint Augustine ‘way”). That is not the same—you don’t love someone trying to kill you, for example, at that point you are committing suicide which is a mortal sin. Tolerance is now equate to worship. And this “tolerance” is becoming, if not now, deny Christ for the perv.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:31 AM (EDT):

Dale,
The phrase “love the sinner, hate the sin” comes from Saint Augustine. It is not a modern liberal invention. Also, you must not be that familiar with the CCC, eh? It is full of Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. The CCC contains the Deposit of Faith, as much as it can be contained in one volume.
Christ said, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” It’s one of the two Great Commandments. He didn’t make any exceptions. He also said:“But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47 And if you salute only your brethren, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?
48 You, therefore, must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” - Matthew 5:44-48

I do not think you are the enemy, Dale. You are just really ill-informed about your Catholic Faith, that’s all. I’m only trying to correct your misconceptions. We are brothers in Christ. I love you and can see that you are on fire for Christ. You need to follow the Church’s teachings, though. Or, you will fall off the path that God has provided.
God Bless!

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:14 AM (EDT):

Nick, I didn’t twist anything. You just “feel” that the catechism is over the Word of God. That’s fine. It’s just that this “feel good” language has lead to complete intolerance of the church and “men” like yourself keep weakening the Faith and not standing up. So you can keep loving your sinners while they keep taking down our Lord and making more laws to take down the Faith and they are quite brazen about it. We are at a severe culture war. And it’s aimed at the Faithful. So while you feel self righteous in homo worship (aka “love the sinner”), I defend the Word of our Lord not politically corrected human “feelings” about it. I am more about defending the Faithful than the perverted. And as you show, I have become the enemy in this politically corrected warped culture, not the perverted. You will defend the pervert and allow the Faithful to hang. Shame on you!

Posted by Anne Marie on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:12 AM (EDT):

Dear Flip Van Dyke, You wrote:“The Church will support any person who desires to be in union with Christ but firstly that person must adhere to the Teachings of the Church.” I think you have your order reversed. St. Teresa of Jesus wrote that the one important thing in the spiritual life is never to give up prayer, no matter what one has done. This is the traditional teaching of all Catholic spiritual writers: your relationship with Our Lord comes first. Someone wrote that prayer and sin cannot coexist: either one will stop sinning or one will give up prayer. I can give an example of this: (I could give the names of the people) one year, the friend of a colleague decided to pray for a certain pro-choice politician as a Lenten practice. But just thinking of the politician made the person so angry they gave up praying for the politician. The anger proved stronger than the prayer. Fr. Benedict Groeschel said once that, in confession, the important thing is not to decide whether the penitent has committed a venial sin or a mortal sin; the important thing is to get the penitent back on the right track. Again, all the great Catholic spiritual writers insist that the first step is prayer, one’s relationship to Our Lord. Pope Francis keeps insisting on this: Our Lord is the center. Pray, turn to Him. I regular follow the Pope’s General Audiences and daily homilies. This is his central theme. He is speaking as a good confessor: like Philip to Nathaniel and Andre to Peter, he is trying to bring people to Jesus. I can understand that you and other people would prefer him to speak as a theologian. That is a valid outlook, but I think Francis has made a good choice in trying to bring people back to Our Lord. Incidentally, I read that as Bishop of Rome he told the priests of his diocese that they have to hear confessions. Thank you, and God bless you!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:12 AM (EDT):

“Stop trying to make it normal and ok with Christ.”
There you go again, Dale. Lying about my position. (I like girls, by the way.)
Sodomy is evil, okay? Is that clear enough for you? That goes for men and women, too. Homosexual cannot live as couples, like men and women do. It is against the natural law. Same-gender counterfeit “marriage” is a lie. No “marriage” has taken place. It is make-believe.
Now, back to my question. Do you want to go back to putting homosexuals and adulterers to death?

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 11:05 AM (EDT):

“I don’t want to worship homosexuality therefore I want to stone them.”
You cited Lev. 20:13, remember, Dale? In that verse of Sacred Scripture, God calls for those who COMMIT homosexual ACTS to be put to death.
You have twisted this verse to somehow mean that God condemns those who are attracted to others of the same gender, without acting on the attraction, or lusting in their hearts.
I, unlike you, agree with the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which says that same-gender attraction is disordered, but not a sin in itself. It is acting on the attraction that is sinful. Just as it is for men who lust after women in their hearts.
Are you familiar with the saying, “Hate the sin, love the sinner”?
How about “Love thy neighbor as thyself”?

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:59 AM (EDT):

And Nick, my point was and is: if you and your “partner” want to “marry,” go ahead. Just stop pretending it is not defying God and stop trying to change the Bible and the Faith and understand there are moral consequences and societal consequences to these choices. Stop trying to make it normal and ok with Christ.

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:53 AM (EDT):

Nick you need to get over yourself. I don’t want to worship homosexuality therefore I want to stone them. You really need an education in logic. Your critical thinking skills are ... not sharp. You’re judging me again and your god, Francis (not Christ) commanded you not to judge anything. All behaviors are just A-OK!

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:51 AM (EDT):

Bergoglio on The Side of Satan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyH1vyipJiY
Is he? Or does he have evil in his staff making him look this way? I am open to being wrong about Francis. But the question has to be asked when he seems to spend most of his time appealing to the antiChrist.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:50 AM (EDT):

Dale,
When are you going to answer my question? Do you want to stone homosexuals to death?
Also, do you have the education that Pope Francis has? Are you really going to try to claim that you know more about the Catholic Faith than the Holy Father?
God Bless!

Posted by Dale on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:46 AM (EDT):

Nick. About the time you and the antiPope started appealing to the antiChrist crowd over the faithful and denying the Word of God. If that’s Catholic, follow it to your eternity. Remember, Hell is a choice.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 10:42 AM (EDT):

D.A.Howard (and the others who are attacking the Holy Father),
When exactly did you become more “Catholic” than the pope?

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 8:01 AM (EDT):

Jorge recently asked “How can we proclaim Christ to a generation that is changing ?” As I say I am not a theologian but I do know the answer: Proclaim Christ. Proclaim Truth. Why ? ...because the truth cannot nor will not change. (easy, eh ?)
Ok, in today’s generation we have plenty of confused people living in all sorts of immoral ways and in this case, homosexuals. There are those who imply that “most homos are leading pure lives”, rubbish !! Children living within same-sex relationships are hardly likely to be leading solid catholic, nor moral lives. When the children (unfortunately) are ‘witnessing sin’ but not necessarily understanding it, they are hardly likely to know the difference . Why ? Because ‘family’ is generally the cell which moulds a child’s ‘belief system’ and therefore a sinful-relationship is not the dwelling place of sanctity. If Jorge wishes to cherish the children within ‘same-sex sin’, then he should focus on the conversion of the adults. 8) Jimmy says that there is no mention within Canon Law which dictates the “Handling children of Divorced or Homosexual Couples”. For starters, the two cannot be compared in the same breath for obvious reasons and the reason that Canon Law makes no mention of Homosexual Couples is because ‘In God’s eyes’ this relationship is sinful. It opposes the very nature of God. Divorce is totally different issue altogether. I know many divorced couples who love their children unconditionally, no matter the circumstances, and always will. Sure, the whole ‘family cell’ suffers upon divorce and yet the divorce can be ‘good’. The Church will support any person who desires to be in union with Christ but firstly that person must adhere to the Teachings of the Church. The Church never has made concessions for ‘sinful acts’ and it never will.

Posted by chris awo on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 6:46 AM (EDT):

Here is an appropriate psalm for this testy times; that the holy Roman Catholic Church may be purified of those pushing the homosexual agenda - false brethren whether lay, clergy or religious:
[O, Lord our God]chase them away with your storm
and terrify them with your fierce winds.
Cover their faces with shame,....
May they be defeated and terrified forever.
Amen
(cf Psalm 83 v 15)

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:51 AM (EDT):

@D A Howard. Jorge understands the Catholic Faith alright. Well the, I hear you say “why is he saying and doing the things that he is ?” Simple answer:because he is working with the enemy.

Posted by D.A. Howard on Tuesday, Jan 7, 2014 12:00 AM (EDT):

Pope Francis is trying to turn the Church into the Society of Jesus. It sickens me. I will be listening to him less and less and praying for a new pope.

Trying to eliminate careerists? St. Paul said it is good to desire to be a bishop. I have to say, this is the worst pope in recent history. I never thought a pope would not understand the Catholic Faith.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:00 PM (EDT):

Larry, Hi, I would treat children from gay families the same as kids from a ‘shacked up’ family situation. The same if the kid is an IVF kid in a single parent home, or even two parents. Or kids from a home where all their brothers and sisters come from different parents, and all their halfs and steps as well. My Mom and Dad were shacked up, My real father was out of the picture before I was even made aware to my Mom. My step Dad, IS my DAD! But in the 50s and 60s where I grew up, this was not cool. I was ashamed, and told no one. I loved my parents, my Dad was the one to take me skating, pick me up after school events, same with after school church activities. HE was the one to take me to Father/Son banquets, and I was so proud of him my heart would about burst, as is now thinking of how wonderful he was. But with learning of God love, at church where my Mom and Dad took me and all my siblings, and there is a whole lot of us, [ He and Mom were quite romantic ] In other ways too. I no longer feel the shame, but do wish they had married, and that my Dad had legally adopted me. I am grateful to my biological Father, and pray for him, and all my half siblings on that side. It worked out well as of this writing, and will only get better. Just do not harp about the parents living situation. The child will know, and come to understand that he or she is loved, and is REALLY loved and wanted by GOD. Jesus had a bit of a not so regular family situation. His family accepted him, those brothers/cousins/sisters, we know cousins, they even James came around. The kids know, just don’t need their noses rubbed in it. They love their parents, and will need YOU along the way, to say it will be okay, because they are loved, by all, and especially Jesus. Teach them later to pray for their parents. My parents were not together at the time they died, and were both in chaste lifestyles at the time. My Dad’s death was a massive sacrifice for his family, us, that is so big, it befuddles my brain to think of his sacrifice for us. He became more of a hero to me than ever. And that is my step Dad. Jesus had a step Dad. Who gave everything for HE and our Blessed Mother. That is why at my confirmation, I chose St. Joseph’s name. I wear that name proudly. I hope this helps. And may GOD bless and guide you. Russell.

Posted by Larry on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 9:11 PM (EDT):

When teaching the Faith to children of irregular home situations, how can you gracefully get around the fact that their guardians are sinning? I wish there was a nice way to say this—but I’m not sure you CAN. Didn’t Our Lord say, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’”? That doesn’t seem to give any escape hatches, does it? I just don’t have the answer. I hope and pray someone wiser than me comes up with it.

Posted by cpola on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 8:00 PM (EDT):

We as Catholics should treat all human beings with dignity and respect but we should not treat their homosexuality with dignity and respect. This is the crux of the matter!
For a Catholic to call himself gay is to accuse God of creating him a homosexual and then turning round to ban him from acting on his homosexuality. This attitude borders (if not outright) on the blasphemous.
It is like accusing God of creating someone a kleptomaniac and then turning round to ban him from stealing things.
Your kleptomania does not come from God neither does your homosexuality. Man lives with a fallen nature, in a fallen world , ruled by fallen angels. Wherever homosexuality comes from, it certainly does not come from God. . When a Catholic calls himself gay he is directly or indirectly supporting the gay agenda, the gay lifestyle and the gay rebellion against God.
The sooner Catholics struggling with same-sex attractions stop calling themselves gay the better for the Church and the world.

Posted by Dale on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 7:45 PM (EDT):

@Russell That’s a very good point. Very well thought out.

Posted by Guest on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 7:43 PM (EDT):

Daniel,

You are wrong on many levels.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 5:51 PM (EDT):

Here is something that crossed my mind, so many people are saying, ’ the gay lobby this, and the gay agenda that. Well just who is really pushing all that stuff, remember I stated earlier that the ‘gay lobby’ does not speak for all of us, anymore than the feminist lobby speaks for all women. NOW, about who pushes this stuff, yes there is that ‘gay lobby, with the agenda’ but without help it goes pretty much nowhere. IT IS YOU STRAIGHT PEOPLE DOING IT, How, you say? Well Newspaper reporters, TV people, even churches, civic gov’ts, and federal ones too, the UN is involved too. It is like when the local team is winning, and all sorts of carpet baggers climb on board, it is the cool thing to do at the time. Not really believing in the team per se. AND currently, the ‘gay’ thing is that team. It is cool for straight people to be on board that train. Straight people jump all over each other to show how much they are on board the ‘gay train’. We, gay people, sit back and wonder what has gotten into them. We see it with the way no one says anything bad about the MUSLIMS. The news people and gov’ts are all on board, and if you are not, you are labeled a ‘phobic’ person. Which leads to one other thing, that word ‘HOMOPHOBIA’ I nor anyone of my gay friends have EVER met someone who is afraid of gay people. NEVER. I have asked oh so many of them. Never have met one. A more correct word would be, ‘HETEROSEXIST’ look it up. Lets please put an end to that word, ‘HOMOPHOBIA’ once and for all, and leave it for the 18 people who are afraid of gay people. |Maybe there are 23, whatever, I have not met one, have you? Doubt it.

Posted by David on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 5:43 PM (EDT):

@Dale - Can you make a point without being Rude or disrespectful? Calling the Pope “Frank” and Hippie along with your other mischaracterizations of a Holy Man is Rude and disrespectful. Not only that, I find that you are very unkind, quite Critical, and full of condemnation when talking to others on this board that don’t live up to the Standard you have deemed to be Gods will. I don’t necessarily disagree with your points here, just your tone and complete disrespect. The overwhelming message of the Bible and of Jesus’s life was and is Love. I don’t see this in your comments and writings. I have to feel that Jesus would be just as hurt in seeing you make someone feel, because of the sinful lifestyle, as if they are not as worthy of his love and mercy as you yourself. These people are your Brother and Sisters in Christ - like it or not… We are instructed to Love them as we love ourselves. I find that this is also the message Pope Francis is constantly telling us also. One that you seem to reject time and time again because apparently he is to liberal for your liking resulting in name calling and disrespect. To be honest with you, no one on here can even take you seriously with such rhetoric. I’m seriously concerned for you the most of all on this comment section. I urge you to go and reread the bible starting with the Gospel of John 1st. Read it with an open heart and look truly for Jesus’s example of Love -especially of Sinners. I’ll pray for your hardness of heart along with the others on this CS that are spreading judgment and not mercy, hate and not love.

May God Bless you.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 5:36 PM (EDT):

Marcus, thanks for the kind comments, and to all of you. The link was quite interesting. Been there. But out of it now, and for good. Still am who and what I am, that cannot be changed, and do not want to be other than me. The way I was made. I may not now be in the lifestyle, but I was, and know the mess it is. I often wondered why we are called ‘gay’ when most of my friends were not. It is a lonely hard walk. With Jesus it is a lighter load. I found a lot of strength from Father John Corapi, Love that man. I was on his path as well, he has a way of saying the truth, and not be all that nice when he does. Kinda like my way of speaking. here I am being much less straight forward. And I learned from Father Carlos that I too am wanted by God. Thanks to both those men.

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 5:24 PM (EDT):

Jorge is careful NOT to mention the word Sin when relating to issues of immorality i.e homosexuality, abortion, contraception etc etc. Very craftily though, he’ll refer to himself as a sinner. It’s important to ‘read between the lines’ with this man. Keep your eyes open during 20145 because ‘you aint seen nothin yet’, I can assure you.
Once Jimmy begins to see the truth of what’s happening in Rome then these blogs will change, dramatically.

†
Flip and all sedevacantists: Obama is not president. The U.S. presidency is vacant. But the Papacy is filled by he who God wants to be there.
†
As for the idea of not “administering a vaccine against faith,” this is pretty much impossible for “gays” or anyone else living in an obviously sinful way. It makes the child choose between Truth and their natural attachment to their caregivers.
†

Posted by James Brady on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 4:39 PM (EDT):

DANIEL said:

“They have a loving and affectionate relationship - yet, stay within the Church teaching.”

Impossible. The “relationship” you described is problematic and, you guessed it, it’s a scandal to the faithful as well as the near occasion of sin. Can’t get around that one.

Posted by Daniel on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 4:17 PM (EDT):

EWTN and the Catholic Register isn’t going to be satisfied until Pope Francis says that all homosexuality is evil and should be condemned. But he is not saying that. It appears that EWTN and the Catholic Register want only the very harsh truth to be told. But Pope Francis isn’t doing that. Pope Francis is NOT changing Church teaching on homosexual acts, but is approaching this subject with humility and compassion. He knows well the damage the Church has done to those who have been asked to carry the cross of homosexuality. The Church wants them to be embraced and loved not singled out. I know homosexual couples who are committed Catholics and are in a committed relationship and who follow the Church teaching of not having sex with their partners. They have a loving and affectionate relationship - yet, stay within the Church teaching. All people need to be loved and to love. It is not good for them to be alone. Instead of always emphasizing what homosexuals cannot do, we need to emphasize what they can do and we need to foster that honest loving relationship. Regarding gay adoption. I know that I would rather be adopted by some wonderful same-sex couples I know than to end up in the foster care system of this country. We keep going on and on that there needs to be both a mother and a father in order for a healthy children to grow and develop appropriately, however, we don’t seem to have any problem with single mothers or fathers adopting children. Isn’t that a counter-diction? I am a devout Catholic. I love the Church and I love Pope Francis for trying to reach out in love to all people. We as a faith-filled Catholics, need to get over ourselves.

Posted by Ben in Maine on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:51 PM (EDT):

I love this Pope; his approach to very sensitive issues has been just fine. He is not fire and brimstone, which many folks may yearn for (Neither were Popes Benedict nor John Paul II).

His is about oresenting the Church’s message in a new light, sans changing the Faith. That is vital in the post-sex abuse era, which destroyed the faith of millions. He is doing his best to fulfill the mission tasked him by the Lord.

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:39 PM (EDT):

@Sheena. Well-written my friend. You’ve hit a few nails clean on the head. Fair and square. Just remember though, Jorge is a very very shrewd & devious character. He makes sure that everything is playing into his hands. Through him with him and in him (and the Antichrist) the masons hope to destroy Catholicism from within. Jimmy Akin has been trying to explain 9 things he said or didn’t say for the past 9 months - what does this tell your heart ?

Posted by Shaun Johnson on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:20 PM (EDT):

I think the media has a bit of a field-day with much of their own agenda with Pope Francis. Unfortunately this quite clearly seems to be yet another one of those instances. Regardless of what one believes on this particular issue, it does seem that the media has gone to some conclusions not intended and not really warranted by the Pontiff’s statements. Radio Vatican has released a statement to try and clear this up a bit, but it is always a good measure to try and sift through the bias of journalists to make sure that what is reported, was actually said…http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2014/01/06/fr._lombardi:_current_debate_over_papal_comments_on_education/en1-761682

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:17 PM (EDT):

Sheena,“Be Not Afraid!”

Posted by Sheena on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:09 PM (EDT):

I was really hoping that in the New Year we would not need to have any more weekly clarifications but here we are again this time about the offspring of same sex couples. I agree with some of the above posters that this constant need to keep trying to explain what he says is getting tiresome. Of course the media will try to spin what he says or does but let’s face it, this pope has a very big problem communicating that no amount of clarifying or stats about how popular he is on Twitter or how many came to see him at his audiences is irrelevant. There is indeed a cult of personality with him that the Catholic media started after his election and I see many comparisons with our current President. You say something about him that is negative you lose your job. This is unheard of in the whole modern Papacy. This is just part of what concerns me.

Posted by SCC on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 2:53 PM (EDT):

I think our Holy Father is very clear in what he is saying. I think many of the readers here (including many of the writers and editors at the NCR) are being challenged and just don’t like what he is saying. The negative comments about Pope Francis that appear in the comments by so called “orthodox” Catholics are most troubling. The Holy Father is calling us to a faith based in love and mercy not hot button divisive issues. What if the first thing people experienced when they meet us is Christ’s love. We could transform the world! NCR writers and commenters are so busy telling me the Pope is not changing church teaching(I know that)and telling me what the Pope meant to say or was mistranslated you are all missing the point of Pope Francis and his boss.
Peace
PS the National Catholic Reporter just suspended it Comments page-perhaps the Register should consider the same. Some of the remarks found on these pages again by “orthodox” Catholics are so hateful and awful they give our faith a bad name.

Posted by Rich in MN on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 2:30 PM (EDT):

@mrscracker,

Thank you for your kind words. I just hope that bh95 and Russell Wesley come back to the article to see the positive comments that several commenters have given them.

Posted by Nancy D. on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:43 AM (EDT):

That should read, any man who looks at a woman with lust, has already committed adultery in his heart.

Posted by Nancy D. on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:37 AM (EDT):

The Bible is full of disordered inclinations that can lead to temptation and spiritual death if one does not desire to become transformed through God’s Gift of Grace and Mercy.

Posted by Nancy D. on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:14 AM (EDT):

http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/5

Lust is a sin. Having a disordered inclination is not a sin, the desire to not overcome one’s disordered inclination and become transformed through God’s Grace and Mercy, is a sin.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:06 AM (EDT):

Dale,
Why do you insist on constantly lying about my positions and views? Can’t you read, and comprehend, simple English?
You were wrong about Leviticus 20:13, where God condemns actions, not attractions. Now, tell me, do you want to follow ALL of Lev. 20:13, and put to death homosexuals?

Posted by Nancy D. on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 11:04 AM (EDT):

To be chaste is to be pure in thought and conduct.

“...any man who looks at a wife with lust, has already committed adultery in his heart.” - The Word of God

Identifying oneself or someone else according to sexual orientation or desire is not part of the Language of Love.

Posted by mrscracker on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 10:09 AM (EDT):

Rich in MN,
Sometimes the comment box is so full of sarcasm & anger that I avoid even reading the posts.Your comments however,were thoughtful & compassionate. Thank you.

Posted by Anne Marie on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 10:08 AM (EDT):

Dear Maija Fish, (Replying to your post of yesterday) I sympathize with your dilemma about how to explain serious human weaknesses to your daughter. I remember my first encounter with this problem. I was 8 years old and a neighbor, a grownup, said something that shocked me. I had been taught that each human being was created in the image of God. I puzzled over the question: how could someone created in the image of God, and a grownup who presumably knew better, say something like that!? This is a pretty hefty question for an 8 year old! Then the thought came to me: he doesn’t realize that he is created in God’s image. Noblesse oblige, but if someone doesn’t know or doesn’t realize that they have been given the nobility of sharing in God’s nature, then it isn’t surprising that they won’t live up to such a grace. The best thing for me to do is to treat that person according to this grace of nobility which they don’t realize they have. I think that a child can understand this, and it is looking at someone as God looks at us: “If you knew the grace of God!...”

Dear Russell Wesley, Please pray for me. Anyone struggling as you are to live according to Our Lord’s teaching must be very close to God! You show this by the patience with which you have replied to the comments directed against you. I am honored to have met you in this forum!

Posted by Pius on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 9:15 AM (EDT):

“if someone is gay and seeks the Lord with good will, who am I to judge?”

People get somewhat excited about that particular part what Francis said, without actually listening what he meant.

The emphasis is on “with good will” which implies good will in God’s will what is right and refraining from practising indecent sexual intercourse to a same sex individual regardless of age. Also to confess, to ask forgiveness of this sin.

It is not an invitation per se that gay marriage will be tolerated.
Gay couples must not live against nature in God’s will, they must separate their sexual ties and live a celibate life if they cannot find attraction to the opposite sex. That is the message.

Pope Francis, unfortunately did not have time to discuss the matter in more detail, he assumed people will understand and comprehend what he said, but the gay community twisted his words into their favour which is heresy.

Posted by Friesca Saputra on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 7:15 AM (EDT):

As Catholics, who have three pillars of FAITH (Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and MAGISTERIUM), this is “The Catechism of the Catholic Church” to read.

2357 “action”
2358 “inclination”
2359 “called to chastity”

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.“141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 5:33 AM (EDT):

Never ever , ever move away from the truth. Always hold true to Holy Scripture. Any modern interpretation which are only twisted lies - discard them.

Posted by Rich in MN on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:22 AM (EDT):

@bh95 (many, many, many posts ago….),

I have a daughter now in college to whom, years ago, I had to give “the talk” about her circumstances of conception and make absolutely clear to her that God loves her, and she is every bit a beloved child of God and in God’s plans as anyone else ever created. And I also made it clear to her that I acted against God’s will, but God takes our lemons and makes lemonade. The very core of Christianity rests on this very paradoxical fact—the worst sin was to torture and kill God; yet, what is the source of our salvation, our greatest gift? The torturous death of God on a cross. The blessings of our daughters (yours and mine) does not make our actions moral any more than our salvation makes Judas Iscariot’s betrayal of Jesus moral. You are God’s primary agent of love to your children. If you love them sincerely and deeply, they will believe you when you tell them that they were always in God’s plans. They will believe it because they will see God’s love for them in their mother.

@Russell Wesley,
Holy smokes, dude, I’ve never seen a person striving so hard to lead a moral life who has gotten so badly beaten up in a combox! When Pope Francis said “Who am I to judge?” on that infamously-spun “plane interview,” he was talking about another person exactly like YOU—someone who had been a sexually active gay man but now was prayerfully dedicated to leading a chaste life dedicated to God. And your virtuous chastity has tremendous power to heal this world and pull it out of its tailspin. Remember Jesus saying in Mark’s Gospel that the most powerful demons can only be driven out by prayer and fasting. Leading a chaste life is definitely a real type of heroic fasting.
Anyways, the next time we, your fellow servants of Christ, mistakenly equate attractions with actions, please tell us to turn to that little book called “The Catechism of the Catholic Church”—particularly paragraphs 2357-2359.
I will say a prayer for you and your journey. And if you would be willing to say a prayer for me and my struggles, I would be most grateful!
Peace!

Posted by Arcady Duvall on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 3:06 AM (EDT):

@bh95: “You are trying to communicate the message that “your God’s child even though your parents committed a sinful act,” which roughly translates to “if they had acted morally, the right result would be for you not to be here.” Good luck with that.

That is an erroneous translation. Remember that Christ himself said that God tolerates and protects evil because to remove evil would be to remove the good. That is, God could have made any sort of world. He made the one in which people freely have done what they have done and will do. Therefore, the correct translation is that God made the universe such that he would create new lives even through sin, just as we were born of Adam and Eve. Hence, there is no new or usual difficulty here. The Church already teaches that we are all born from parents who committed a terrible crime. And as a matter of obvious historical fact, we’re all the sons and daughters and eunuchs of innumerable rapists, murderers, thieves, etc. Moreover, 1) You don’t know that “if they acted morally, you wouldn’t be here”, and 2) the point is that no matter what your parents freely did to generate your body, God’s providence ultimately willed that to happen in order to make you. No parent authors a soul, that which makes a body a living person instead of a mechanical blob of particle-like parts in motion. Quite frankly, there’s no message better than the one that the Church has always taught each and every person: from all eternity, through various incredibly complex conspiracies, age after age, across inconceivable spaces and eons, God Himself, the Master of the Universe, plotted and executed your existence, and He will do anything to make sure you live forever, even die Himself. If that doesn’t give you a beyond absurd sense of self-worth, nothing will.

Posted by TeaPot562 on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 2:55 AM (EDT):

@Russell Wesley:
Let me apologize to you for condemnation from writers who confuse an “inclination” with an “action”.
People are not responsible for innate tendencies. They are responsible for their actions. You are doing what you can.
Even heterosexual people sometimes have to abstain - for years, even. If your spouse undergoes surgery to remove malignancies from her/his body, that surgery may make him/her incapable of enjoying sex. Forcing attentions on someone who would suffer rather than enjoy it would violate the “Do unto others as you would have them do to you.”, aka the Golden Rule.
We are stumbling, bumbling people who fall from time to time. Salvation will come if we get up and keep trying.
To borrow from another poster, “God Bless.”
TeaPot562

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 2:45 AM (EDT):

Well Russell, THAT IS A BEAUTIFUL POST!
May the Holy Spirit strengthen you always to enable you to be faithful to Him in living a chaste life.

I think it is perhaps because you do live according to the teachings of the Church that you are not aware of the real state of the gay lifestyle. This is my problem when people identify themselves as gay. They may have inclinations but they do not have to live the gay lifestyle. Praise the Lord for all the wonderful things He has done in your.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 1:59 AM (EDT):

To any who got me confused. Yes I am gay, I have no partner. I am chaste, have been for many years. I do not in any way put sodomy over Christ. I put nothing over Christ. I spend a whole lot of time in prayer, each and every day. People who do know me, consider me the religious nut that they know and put up with. Currently my projects are to keep my teenage nieces coming with me to Mass. Learning of Jesus, etc. And trying with the Holy Spirits help to bring a friend out of the LDS, morman, stuff, and my brother who got sucked into the JWs. And leading an evangelical neighbour to the Catholic Church. Lets see, what else, Oh yeah, handing out bibles to the kids in my town, teaching them about Jesus, through bible stories when I hold ‘class’ in my backyard. NOT allowed in my house without parents. No exceptions! And rosaries to hand out to the kids, and help them with those. I read at Mass, Have read the bible through and through so many times I have lost track many years ago. I bring books of our faith and CDs from Lighthouse ministries, and leave it for people at church to take. No charge, it is my gift to my parish family. The list goes on and on, but I will stop. ALL THIS FROM A GAY PERSON. I would like all the rest of you to do more, and make me look like a selfish old troll. It would warm my heart if you all would do as such. Now I know I do next to nothing compared to many others, thank God for them. But I am working in more and more all the time. See, it is good to be a chaste gay person, I got lots of free time. To do good. So you guys, stop trying to pick up that girl, stop trying for the biggest contract at the office, where you have abandoned you family. Spend you liquor money on the poor. Get the kids in your neighbourhoods bibles of their own. Their parents most likely did not. FINALLY, I LOVE JESUS CHRIST. I LOVE GOD THE FATHER. I LOVE THE HOLY SPIRIT, I LOVE OUR ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, ILOVE HER TEACHINGS, I LOVE OUR POPE, I LOVE MY COUNTRY, MY FAMILY, MY NEIGHBOURS, AND ALL LF YOU. BE YOU STRAIGHT, BI, GAY, BLACK, WHITE, YELLOW, RED OR BROWN, CONSERVITAVE OR LIBRAL, some are messed up, but what the heck, embrace you weirdness! May God bless you all, and have a good night.

Posted by Dale on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 1:23 AM (EDT):

ok. Nick and Russell love perverts over Christ. We get that. But where, other than Frank the Hippie Pope, is your basis for loving two men together in sodomy over Christ? Nick loves Sodomy. Russell loves Sodomy. Where is their love for Christ and not giving in to the flesh?

Posted by Dale on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 1:20 AM (EDT):

@rusell wesley perveyor of perversion: Changing the topic does not make it right. You’re changing the argument and topic of this post to justify worshiping the antiChrist. Stop changing the argument and look at your defense of perversion.

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 1:13 AM (EDT):

Russell, sexual “id” is not a sentence. It does not say “ssa” therefore MUST sodomize, CAN’T HELP but sodomize. We all have control of our wills. We all have intellects. We all can choose to give in to temptation and do evil or to fight temptation and do good. If you are reducing yourself to your inclination, then you are saying that you are merely an animal totally enslaved to your passions. But since you are posting here, I got the distinct impression that somehow you must be a human being. But if you insist that having sex with men is something you cannot help, then maybe I was wrong. Perhaps you are nothing more than a beast after all.

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:57 AM (EDT):

Russell, here’s fact from the CDC,
“Gay, bisexual, and other men who have sex with men (MSM))a represent approximately 2% of the United States population, yet are the population most severely affected by HIV. In 2010, young MSM (aged 13-24 years) accounted for 72% of new HIV infections among all persons aged 13 to 24, and 30% of new infections among all MSM. At the end of 2010, an estimated 489,121 (56%) persons living with an HIV diagnosis in the United States were MSM or MSM-IDU.

So to re-itereate: Gays comprise only 2% of the population and yet they account for 72% of all new infections. That is quite staggering. http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/facts/index.html

More to the point, there are gays who are ACTIVELY SEEKING to sexually engaged those who have AIDS so that they have can get infected.

A large majority of gays are promiscuous.

When one becomes aware of the utter depravity that one finds in the homosexual lifestyle, then one can really comprehend why the Church is so very much against it. And yet you want us to accept that such a lifestyle is good? You want us to accept that sex between men is good?

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:49 AM (EDT):

Marcus, I just was not certain as to your sexual id. I was sounding in a not sure way to me. I never chose. I know you did not either. None of us gets the chance. We all have the opportunity to do nothing with our sexuality. But that in itself still has no bearing on ones sexuality. Nothing does. And yes, I know there are confused people out there. I hope they get the help they need to settle the confusion. I feel sorry for them, an awful state to be in.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:43 AM (EDT):

The gay lobby does not speak for all of us, anymore than the feminist rights lobby speaks for all women, it does not. And neither does the gay lobby groups. There are gay people against same sex marriage, just like there are also straight people against straight marriages. Reasons vary among people. Me, I am not in favor. Besides, the ones most happy, the lawyers. All the more divorces to do battle in court. Just more money for them. As for HIV, it is the biggest percentage in the straight community. There are no where near 40,000,000 gay people with HIV. I know what it was called. Even was called ‘the gay cancer’. The way things were stated, a lot of gay people thought it was just another gene in our make-up and that it was inevitable that one would eventually show the symptoms. Not get it, but that it was already with us. No, that was people eating bush meat. monkeys, specifically, the Green Monkey’ It carries the HIV virus, but it causes no ill effects to them. Moral of this, do not kill and eat monkeys. It was the blood of those same green monkeys that got into human open wounds, blood to blood. What ever the ways and means, and whomever gets it, most all of it gets transferred by doing stuff one should not. The JWs will say that even about blood transfusions, and also transplanted organs. May-be they are correct????? Keep it in your pants, or legs closed, and that puts most of it away. Not all, cause a lot is transmitted in other no sinful ways.

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:08 AM (EDT):

Russell: Marcus, I am a bit confused, are you gay or straight?

Me: I am heterosexual but what that has to do with the conversation escapes me.

Posted by Marcus on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:01 AM (EDT):

Russel: Most gay people want nothing to do with sex with kids.

Me: Perhaps not. But it still does not alter the fact that most sexual abuse of minors were perpetuated by gays. As a matter of fact, there is now a push by the homosexual lobby to lower the age of consent for sexual activity.

Russell: I myself and pretty much all of my gay friends do not want to be the dominating force you and others think. We only wanted to not be criminals, as we once were.

Me: That may go for you but that is not what the homosexual lobby is about. So long as you are for the legalization of gay marriage, then you do speak with one voice with the gay lobby. The fact that you called the Church a gay hater is pretty much gay lobby technique. When you call the one who objects to your lifestyle a homophobe then you are speaking with the gay lobby.

Russell: And as far as HIV, that came about from people killing and eating ‘bush meat’ [green monkeys] and other primates. Green monkeys is where the virus entered humans. And it is mostly in the straight world.

Me: How it entered humans I do not know. What I do know is that when it first surfaced the medical community called it GRID - Gay Related Immune Disease. It was only when the homosexual lobby put pressure on the CDC that they changed the term. In the west, it is still overwhelmingly a gay disease. Even gays admit that. There was even one gay writer who wrote that unless gays accept this fact, then they will never be able to conquer the disease. The gay lifestyle is totally depraved. I don’t know if you will bother to do that but read the book Strained Relations: The Challenge of Homosexuality but Muehlenberg. Over 90% of newly infected persons are gay.

Russell: Now just how did that happen, those weird bi-sexual people who will do anyone

Me: WRong again there. Statistic shows that there is a much higher percentage among homosexuals who engage in bestiality. Something like 18% as compared to 3% in the heterosexual population. Furthermore, there are many homoseuxals who claim to have had over 1000 partners, some simulataneously even.

I suggest your read this link:
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles8/Lee-The-Truth-About-The-Homosexual-Rights-Movement.php
This is the truth about homosexuality that the gay police take great pains to conceal.

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Monday, Jan 6, 2014 12:01 AM (EDT):

Hi Stephanie, In reply to your latest posting: Jesus never said “I have come to save certain sinners, depending on the age they live in or their ‘material circumstances’ (rich or poor). Let’s be frank, Jesus said “I have come to save sinners”. Fact.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:36 PM (EDT):

Marcus, I am a bit confused, are you gay or straight?

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:33 PM (EDT):

Marcus, Most gay people want nothing to do with sex with kids. Yes there are some perverts, though most of that is in the hetero world. I myself and pretty much all of my gay friends do not want to be the dominating force you and others think. We only wanted to not be criminals, as we once were. To be like all others living in the burbs, kids, PTA, and such is not what most of us want. Just the vocal minority. You know the greasy wheel thing. And as far as HIV, that came about from people killing and eating ‘bush meat’ [green monkeys] and other primates. Green monkeys is where the virus entered humans. And it is mostly in the straight world. Now just how did that happen, those weird bi-sexual people who will do anyone. And you straight people sure keep it going. I go to the hospital and see pretty much straight people picking up their anti HIV drugs. Can’t say I have seen a gay person there for over 10 years. I feel real out of place there. And they look at me like I am the odd one out. Like, why are you here, this place is for us straight people alone, just boinkers and druggies. Weird, maybe you should go see for yourself, and with your beliefs, no wonder none of your straight friends will out themselves to you about their HIV status.

Posted by Marcus on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:24 PM (EDT):

Russell, you said: By the way, when did you make your decision to be straight? Bet you never did, it just was. Same for gay persons, we never even had the opportunity to choose, just like straight people.

There is no such thing as a gay gene. True, some of our predilections are in-born. But it doesn’t man that we give in to them. Do you know that they are now saying that there is such a gene that predisposes men to be violent. Does that excuse them? Should we now validate their violence and make concessions to them and change laws to accommodate their evil inclination.

We cannot choose our inclinations but we can choose to either give in to them or not. There is now a push to classify paedophilia as an orientation. Should we know have separate rules for the paedophile?

The same sex attracted person is not a beast that cannot think nor cannot will. You are reducing yourself to your intstinct. You are therefore classifying yourself as no more than an animal. We are human beings capable of rising above our own evil desires.

Posted by Marcus on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:11 PM (EDT):

Yes, you are only about 3% of the population (although) statistics show more like 2-2.5%. And yet this 2.5% of the population wants to dominate the entire race. You want to impose your wills not just on the Church but on the entire society! That is arrogance. You want us to accept that something that is totally depraved should gain acceptance by the 97% of the population.

Posted by Marcus on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:06 PM (EDT):

Russell, the fact that a majority of the abuse of minors was perpetuated by gay men speaks for itself. As a matter of fact, you cannot hide behind the “its all about power” excuse because the abused male victims were mostly teenagers. I know you want to spin this way but you can’t because the fact of the matter is homosexuals were the ones who perpetuated this filth in the Church. That is why the first step that was taken was to bar homosexuals from the priesthood. You see this too in the BoyScouts. Homosexuals target these boys. They have a preying activity.

The gay lobby wants to promote the sick gay lifestyle - the lifestyle that gave us AIDS. Yes, I am saying that AIDS is a predominantly gay disease. As a matter of fact, before the gay police imposed their will on the medical community, AIDS was initially called GRID - Gay Related Immune Deficiency.

You may want to sanitize what being gay is but you cannot sanitize it because it is intrinsically disordered. Whether you like it or not, homosexuality is compromised or faulty heterosexuality.

Enough of the sob story with regards oppression. It is a fact that most homosexual men and women are in the middle to upper economic bracket. So no, there is no economic hardship there. Yes, check the latest statistics and you will find that to be true.

You are bullying us into silence so that the evil and depravity of the gay lifestyle is never exposed. We know all about your agenda, your tactics and your plans. Fortunately, gays themselves are the ones who have let the cat out of the bag.

So don’t go lecturing us because we know what the homosexual rights movement is up to. ANd it is about time the whole evil agenda is exposed.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:57 PM (EDT):

Flip van Dyke, If what you say is true that evil has entered and taken control of our church, at the top, the Pope, then the Holy Spirit failed against the gates of hades. Jesus said it will not prevail. And our Holy Father, Pope Francis, was appointed by the power of the Holy Spirit. And what ever and wherever that leads is but for by the grace and power of God. Nothing gets past him, you know. He, God is in charge. You talk nonsense, like this. And according to you, that evil has taken over the Vatican, well I suppose the Holy Spirit wanted it. The pope is put in place by HIM.

Posted by Stephanie on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:55 PM (EDT):

@Flip van Dyke—I wrote:
“The basic morals exist, but with very different material circumstances.”
.
I have no argument about Jesus being the Savior, just about the changes in the material world, and the inability of current generations to appreciate who life was for their ancestors.
.
Yes, people need to be saved—but under different circumstances. Yes, Jesus said “Jesus came to save the sinner, of every generation,” but the Internet did not exist when He came. The people who need to be saved can’t see how Jesus can save them because there are more material distractions.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:50 PM (EDT):

Marcus, I am 58 years old, when I was younger in the 70s and 80s, I and most of my gay friends and such would have and did deny that there ever was a gay agenda, I knew of no one that believed such a thing. Were we wrong, We just wanted to be not criminals. Even for just being gay, something no one can do anything about. But it got hijacked by those radicals. Kinda like the early womens movement, where they just wanted to be able to vote, be a doctor, get equal pay for the same job, etc. Now look what has happened to that movement, we got these radical feminists wrecking havoc for all the rest of the female population. Gay sex does not equate to being gay, if so I could get do it with a female, even in a marriage, and both would be lies, lies and more lies. And if as you say most of the abuse was done by gay people, not just one doing gay sex, then our church hierarchy has a lot to do with that, making our churches a place of just badness, for lack of a clear word. Because in the ‘world’ the majority of abuse is by straight people. It matters not much as to the gender, granted some do have preferences. That is why perverts like kids, kinda gender neutral. All the gay people I know, and most all of the ones I do not know, get extremely peed off at any one member of our tribe that violates a child. We got enough to deal with, having people think that is what we all do. No! NO! NO! In the gay community, and not the gay agenda people either, believe children are precious and need all the protection we all can give them. All of us, straight and gay. There are not enough of us gay people to cause that much damage. There is however enough straight people with warped minds to fill most of the abuse charges that clog our courts and hearts. Not saying there is not stuff on all sides. But keep it all in proper perspective. We are only about 3% of the population. In humans, geese, goats, etc. All across the creature domain, including us humans. It just kinda stays constant, throughout the history of this planet.

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:47 PM (EDT):

If Jorge wants to fight against sin he will firstly need to TALK about sin and the sinner, not about the poor. He has an agenda to try and blind God’s people to the truth. Why do you think ecclesiastical masonry entered the Vatican ? The simple answer is TO DESTROY THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Think about it. How will evil achieve that ? By twisting the truth so that it will not appear to be the truth. The truth will always be, even if no one believes in the truth, get it ?

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:45 PM (EDT):

Stephanie,
You made the claims. It should be easy for you give quotations and citations of your mere assertions concerning Pope Francis, if they are true, no? Like, when did he say that “unrestrained capitalism [has] corrupted the Church”?
I, too, have been reading Mr. Akin’s articles, which give the pertinent facts about all of these distorted quotations of the Holy Father’s. Mr. Akin has corrected the distortions made by the media, such as Reuters & Scalfari.
You should pay better attention.
God Bless!

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:32 PM (EDT):

@Stephanie Sin is sin, is it not. Jesus came to save the sinner, of every generation, creed and race, wealthy or poor. Jesus never said “I have come to save the poor”, did he ? The age we live in is irrelevant. The wealthy people from Beverly Hills need to be saved too. Jorge never seems to talk about ‘saving the sinner’ and ‘saving the lost’, it’s not in his vocabulary. It’s not about ‘interpreting’ this man because we read what he writes and we hear him when he speaks. He is either ‘of Christ’ or he is not….

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:29 PM (EDT):

Dale, God also says that a whole lot of other people, well actually their actions make it so, will never inherit the kingdom. Labled off are, practising homosexuals, fornicators, adulterers, gluttons, the lazy, the list goes on and on. It kinda includes most of the population as I see it, and how I see people being. AND THEN SOMETHING THAT REALLY GETS ME AS TO THOSE HYPOCRITES IS THAT THEY YELL ABOUT GAY PEOPLE, EVEN CHASTE ONE LIKE ME, AND WITH THIER SHACK-UP SPOUCE AND ALL THIER ILLEGITE OFFSPRING ALL GO UP AND RECIEVE THE HOLY EUCHRIST. REALLY! Really! And you wonder why gay people as well as a lot of Catholics and non Catholics see such hypocrisy in the ’ church ’ which is not in the Church, but a lot of its members.

Posted by Stephanie on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:22 PM (EDT):

Nick—please enlighten me. I first got my “ideas” from internet news sites—Reuters and so on. I’ve read many of Akin’s posts “explaining” what Pope Francis’ statements. What do you know about it that I don’t?

Posted by Marcus on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:22 PM (EDT):

Rusell, you are wrong in your statement that sexual abuse in the Church is not perpetuated by gays. It is. Overwhelmingly. Something like 80%. That is fact. You may want to spin the data the way you like but that is fact.

This is corroborated by secular studies. As a matter of fact, the gay lobby wants to lower the age of consent precisely so they can have sex with minors.

While it is true that there are some commendable ssa men and women who have turned away from the lifestyle, it still stands that homosexual activity is an evil and an evil that that the gay lobby wants us to validate.

Pope Francis needs to be clearer and stop shooting from the hip. When he says something, he needs to explain the whole context of what he is saying so that he cannot be misunderstood. You practically have to dig his past utterances before you can make sense of things that he lets fly off the cuff. A “BUT” here and and “IF” there would have avoided some of the confusion.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:18 PM (EDT):

Cpola: You do realise that deliberate doing or THINKING about lets say [ a man thinking lustful thoughts towards a women is regarded as doing just so ] says Jesus. Or a women towards a man, same thing. Thoughts of what ever can and do quite often, lead to ones doing just that very thing one was thinking about. So the temptation goes all directions, even to the point of lustfully desiring your neighbours new truck so much, that you start to plot a way to get it, then you do steal it, then enjoy the stealing, and the truck too. See how it goes. That is why we are to keep our thought pure too. Think on whatever is lovely, noble, good, etc. these things think on. There is absolutely nothing I nor anyone short of God can change one sexuality. Not possible, Did mot Jesus say that you cannot even add one cubit to your height? Cannot change you eye colour, nor height, nor brain power nor anything else for that matter. And the last I heard God does not turn midgets into regular sized people, nor give you a different eye colour, no matter how hard you pray. If you are straight? try asking God to make you gay, he WILL not! Anymore than he will make a gay person straight. He made each of us the way He wanted too. Final, we do not get a say. Ask a downs syndrome kid, or all the little black kids that want to be Chinese, just will not happen. I deal with the same, slightly different, than straight people do, in dealing with what goes through ones mind when the hornies start to act up. Go say a rosary, it will do you good. It goes the same for all people. By the way, when did you make your decision to be straight? Bet you never did, it just was. Same for gay persons, we never even had the opportunity to choose, just like straight people. If we did, why would anyone choose a tough life and as some of you say that no matter what, or how much one loves the Lord, and desires to serve Him, that one is predestined to burn in hell. Now, would I EVER change my sexuality? NEVER, would I do such a thing. It would be like wanting to be something other than God’s plans for me. And it surly is not just to make a bunch of people to enjoy watching them struggle with who they are, and then He enjoys watching the burn and suffer the fires of hell. Just what kind of God do you believe in? Now, am I advocating people, gay or straight to go out and boink your life away, Of course not. Fornicating is Fornicating, no matter which way one does it. We are ALL called to be holy, righteous beings. ALL of us, it is said about, Do you not know that your bodies are not your own, but are the temple of the Holy Spirit? That I hope clears up some stuff. You are always free and welcome to reply. I very much stand up for Christ, and the Bible, to the point where I am usually considered an obnoxious religious God loving ranting idiot by a lot of people I challenge on their sins, and wrongly held beliefs. Sincerely, Russell Wesley. You can always find me on facebook if you or any one wants to chat more. I am really a nice person, a bit legalistic and sometimes accused of enjoying debates, but I love the Lord, My Catholic Church, it’s teachings, our wonderful Pope, this one =, the last ant the one before and even before him. See you all. M\y God make his face to shine on you all.

Posted by Stephanie on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:14 PM (EDT):

“Flip Van Dyke”
You didn’t read my whole question. Yes the Church’s purpose is to administer the truth and sacraments, but what if it’s members are staying from the Church’s path? This is what is being tested, because so many Catholics need to “interpret” Pope Francis’ sayings as Mr. Akin is doing in this blog. The concern is not Church teaching, it is about weather its “flock” really “gets” what the Church is teaching.
+++++++
We live in the 21st Century—a very different world from the time when the Catholic faith began. The basic morals exist, but with very different material circumstances. Pope Francis is right in addressing the more salient issues of poverty and justice. He is addressing the causes of sin, which makes a lot more sense in fighting against sin than simply asserting that it is wrong.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:13 PM (EDT):

“He enforces Catholic teachings and belief, but maybe he is shifting the focus off the Old Testament command to be ‘fruitful and multiply’ to the New Testament of Jesus Christ to heal the (already born) suffering.
I agree with Pope Francis’ statements that hypocrisy and unrestrained capitalism have corrupted the Church.”

Where did you get such crazy notions, Stephanie? Pope Francis has done, nor said, any such thing. Christians are still called to be fruitful and multiply, i.e., no birth control. Nice try.
You don’t seem to understand the Old Testament (Covenant) very well, either. You are confusing the books of the Old & New Testaments with the Old Covenant with Israel and the Eucharist, the New Testament (Covenant) in His Blood, which was shed for us (see Luke 22:20).
God Bless!

Posted by K.C.Thomas on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:55 PM (EDT):

The media likes to put their words and ideology into the mouths of the authorities in the Church. When will they realize that eternal truths are eternal truths and any amount of repetition of their ideology cannot change that concept

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:41 PM (EDT):

@Stephanie “...the point of having a church” is to administer the truth, the sacraments and to been drawn towards Calvary and our Redemption. Jorge has an alternative agenda which will shock you once you hopefully come to understand it. As he said “call me Jorge” LOL How crazy man !!

Posted by cpola on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:41 PM (EDT):

Russell Wesley before you continue to call yourself gay meditate and pray on the link below. You may be struggling with same-sex attraction; but don’t label yourself with your temptations. We are all sinners and are tempted by one thing or the other. However the gravity of homosexual acts make it a dangerous thing to label oneself as gay. Deliberate and willful homosexuality in thought and actions are gravely sinful.
I love and respect your person and i admire your efforts at chastity, but i don’t respect your homosexuality which to me - putting it mildly - is playing with fire.
The link below may may shed more light on the way forward.
www.prophetamos3m.com

Posted by Stephanie on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:27 PM (EDT):

Does anyone else notice how comments shift from Old Testament to New Testament and back again, depending on the subject?
.
Here is yet another blog “interpreting” statements by Pope Francis. Why is there such a great fear he’ll be misunderstood? He enforces Catholic teachings and belief, but maybe he is shifting the focus off the Old Testament command to be “fruitful and multiply” to the New Testament of Jesus Christ to heal the (already born) suffering.
.
I agree with Pope Francis’ statements that hypocrisy and unrestrained capitalism have corrupted the Church. If Catholics can’t accept some criticism from their own designated leader, what is the point of having a Church?

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:19 PM (EDT):

There are many twisted lies coming out of the Vatican since the new papacy. Be careful everyone because it’s different from what it seems. Evil is very crafty on all fronts. pray more !

Posted by Marcus on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:56 PM (EDT):

Randy, are you aware that the harm done to children were mostly done (overwhelmingly so) by homosexual priests and bishops? That there is a gay mafia that has facilitated and is probably one of the reasons that it took so long for this to surface?

When gays keep insisting on paedophilia, they are probably forgetting that the they are the greatest perpetrators of paedophilia.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:44 PM (EDT):

Dale,
I added nothing. I put quotation marks around “lies” and “committed.” As in:
“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them.”
In other words, God condemns the ACT of men lying with other men as with a woman, i.e., homosexual acts.
Now, answer my question, please. Do you wish to go back to stoning homosexuals and adulterers?

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:38 PM (EDT):

@Russell Wesley is homosexuality your center of worship? You don’t seem to defend the Bible, Christ and God but homosexuality seems to be your center of worship.

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:36 PM (EDT):

@russell Wesley you are changing the argument to defend the antiChrist you are doing evil by this!

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:35 PM (EDT):

@nick… it doesn’t say “acts” you added that. You and frank the hippie!

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:50 PM (EDT):

Dale, does it not say also that fornicators and adulterers etc. WILL NOT inherit the kingdom. That they will go to hell.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:30 PM (EDT):

Maija, that is one touchy subject for sure. I and a whole lot of my gay friends, and gay people I do not know are NOT in favor of gay marriage. For many reasons. Church teachings, not wanting to be tied down with legal stuff, after the divorce. Which reminds me, lawyers love gay marriage, because most gay relationships do not last, worse than straight ones, that have a 50% failure rate. The lawyers stand to make a fortune. I get into many heated debates with both my straight and gay friends about this. About that little 18 month girl, well you can be a good influence in her life, without condemning her ‘parents’, She will grow to know God’s love through you. And his truths. I myself am the ‘ONE’ in my family, you know the religious one, [and gay too] and I am a big help to my family, and friends. I have with me at Mass, my brother, and I bring my two teenage nieces with me. They learn morals, and God’s love and teaching through me, their gay, chaste uncle. And I have some authority on this because of my past lifestyle, and now am paying for it. I still hear that all gay people are going to hell being taught. THAT teaching made me feel that what ever I did not matter, I was already condemned to hell, so it mattered not what I did. Just have all the fun you can, cause it just did not matter as to my predestination of going to hell. But, thankfully I found out the truth, and now I am filled with joy, I have a heart full of Christ’s hope for me. WOW. I have a lesbian cousin. A radical feminist too boot, she and I may be ‘children of the rainbow tribe’ but that is about as far as we see eye to eye. Even her feminist ways are, well, too far out of the park. That little 18 month old, just maybe let her parents be, let them see your love shine through. And you might be their favorite, like I am in my family. Love that little one, let her just learn God’s truths through you, Mass, bible stories, etc. It is really not a lot different than my nieces, being from a family where all the kids, their cousins and halfs and steps all have different parents. Hence why I call it a family shrub, instead of a tree. How you treat the kids from these shredded families, many dads and moms, all conceived and born out of a holy marriage, is about the same as per a kid of gay parents. or even single women who just want a kid, so go get one made. I will pray for you, and that group you that is your family. Do the same for me and mine too please. May God bless you in the ways He knows best.

Posted by James Brady on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:25 PM (EDT):

Russell Wesley, 81% of the abuse cases were HOMOSEXUAL pedastery (ages 11-17). Hugh McLoughlin was right. Read the Context and Causes of the John Jay report. It will be edifying.

Posted by James G on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:23 PM (EDT):

Yet another reason that we can reasonably expect the Holy Father, and the Bishops, to significantly revise the annulment process at the coming synod. Remember that the current annulment process is not infallible teaching, but is rather the current state of canon law. The annulmnent process is already significantly more “pastoral” than it was in the middle ages, and is ripe for further changes. Imagine being the child of a second marriage today, and being told by the church that your parent’s marriage is not legitimate….you would be halfway out the door already. Is this Christianity at work? “I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.”

Posted by Littleeif on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:23 PM (EDT):

In my part of the world, so many of the young from high school through to college, many who have been through the Catholic school system straight through, have concluded that it is Christian and Catholic to be “kind”, “generous”, etc. and to cohabitate, to advocate for homosexual unions and marriage, and that sexual immorality is no bar to Catholic faith. They argue vehemently for the justice of their viewpoint, and attack as “hypocrites” anyone bold enough to cite the Catechism to them. (A recent family / friend fight over DOMA vividly brought this home to me.)

I can’t help but feel that in urging the Church to catch up to current lifestyles, he himself is missing the point and leaving the rest of us out here to fight on alone. I really thought we had learned as a Church that being fresh, contemporary, appealing only reverses our true goal. Time and time again I think its proven out people are drawn to those who firmly and faithfully stand their ground. Please, Pope - don’t make us engage in this battle alone!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:16 PM (EDT):

@Dale,
Leviticus is clearly condemning homosexual acts, using verbs like “lies” and “committed.” Besides, we are no longer under the Old Covenant’s prescriptions. Or, do wish to go back to stoning homosexuals and adulterers?

@Mr. Wesley,“Many were straight. Most all sex abuse is done by straight people on children.”
Sorry, but statistics are statistics, I’m afraid.”—An overwhelming majority of the victims, 81 percent, were males. The most vulnerable were boys aged 11 to 14, representing more than 40 percent of the victims. This goes against the trend in the general U.S. society where the main problem is men abusing girls.—A majority of the victims were post-pubescent adolescents with a small percentage of the priests accused of abusing children who had not reached puberty.”
http://www.americancatholic.org/news/clergysexabuse/johnjaycns.asp

Also, homosexual acts are a perversion of the marital act. They are against the natural law. While adultery and pre-marital relations are sinful, they are not against the natural law.

Posted by Hugh McLoughlin on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:56 PM (EDT):

Russell Wesley avers: “One must know that not all the sex abuse was at the hands of ‘gay’ priests. Many were straight. Most all sex abuse is done by straight people on children. The gender of the child is irrelevant to most all abusers.”

Have you bothered to read “The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States” commonly known as the John Jay Report?

Posted by James Brady on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:51 PM (EDT):

Yeah. How DO you implement this “idea” Holy Father? At each turn is tough love, Gospel style. Suggestions?

Posted by Anne Marie on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:47 PM (EDT):

Reading the comments makes it hard to remember what the article was about, but I think it was about educating children whose parents are not living according to the teachings of the Church. This is not a new problem, though it is certainly intensified in the present culture. I struggled with it as a child. Even though there was nothing sinful about my parents marriage or our family relationships, we did not correspond to the image of a “good Catholic family” and I felt guilty. I think that Mother Angelica suffered intensely from being the only child in her school whose parents were divorced, even though (if I remember correctly) neither of them remarried. It IS difficult to explain the Church’s teachings on such matters to children. I wonder (and this is purely my own idea) if a greater catechesis on grace would help. Fr. Cantalamessa wrote that in St. Paul’s letter to the Romans Paul begins by teaching about the graces we receive through Our Lord and then teaches about the moral demands of living by grace. “Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” I think that it was this great insight that gave St. Augustine the courage to become a Christian. The relationship with Our Lord comes first. “This is eternal life: to know you, the one true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” And I have heard that to “know” in the Bible is referring to a spousal relationship, not just knowing about God, but living in a personal relationship with Him. This is what Pope Francis is emphasizing: the relationship with Him comes first. I have no difficulty understanding Francis’s remarks.

Posted by Maija Fish on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:44 PM (EDT):

I think this subject parallels something painful for me right now in my family. My husband’s cousin is a non-Christian lesbian that is in a non-legal “marriage” with her “wife.” They both attended out wedding, so my husband and I attended theirs as a good will family gesture (a pagan/new age-y ceremony outdoors). Now her wife is expecting a child, apparently from sperm donated by my husband’s cousin’s brother. When my husband’s cousin found out that we were not in support of legalizing gay marriage (supreme court case) last year, she was deeply hurt and offended, as was her mother, etc. Basically, they just kept saying that this meant that we thought that gay people were going to hell, and not worthy of civil rights. They kept saying that we were “against her”. Now they aren’t speaking to us. I don’t know what is the best thing to do in this situation. I also don’t want to have to explain this/their lifestyle to my daughter (now 18 months old) once she gets old enough to notice. I feel sad for this little baby about to born, as there is no one in it’s life to speak/live the Gospel. How do you do that, when they are surrounded by moral relativists that think the Gospel is really hateful???

Posted by Maija Fish on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:29 PM (EDT):

@Russell- thank you for living your life faithfully and devoting yourself to your nieces and nephews as well. I think you are a good example for everyone. It cannot be easy for you, especially given our cultural attitudes (from both sides of the issue), so the fact that you see and live the truth in Christ and furthermore, in his Church is admirable. I wish there were more people like yourself (gay or straight)!

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:25 PM (EDT):

One must know that not all the sex abuse was at the hands of ‘gay’ priests. Many were straight. Most all sex abuse is done by straight people on children. The gender of the child is irrelevant to most all abusers. It is about power over another. And with little kids, these twisted people, do not differentiate among boys or girls. Not all are in one way or another, but most do not care. STOP BLAMING GAY PEOPLE! START PUTTING THE BLAME WHERE IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE, ON PERVERTS, BE THEY STRAIGHT OR GAY. Besides, most all molestations are perpetrated by straight people, percentage of population taken into account, seeing gay people are only about 3% of the population at large. AND PLEASE STOP, I BEG YOU, STOP saying that gay people are sinners and going to hell. NO more than straight people are. IT IS THE SIN THAT IS WRONG AND OFFENCIVE TO GOD. NOT THE PERSON. So, just stop sinning, everyone, straight, gay, etc. One more thing, we are not the ones leaving huge numbers of children, broken, by ou retched life styles of boinking anyone and divorcing and shacking-up etc. Repeat, I and many other gay people live chaste lives. Much better and more so than a lot of horny straight people, not caring what so ever about their unwanted offspring. Be nice, be holy, be righteous. Do God’s will and commands, everyone, and all will be so much better for all. You never know what the sexuality of your children will be, only God does. And for them to hear that gay persons are going to hell, no matter what, then they reach puberty and realise that they are going to hell no matter that they love and serve and follow God’s laws, imagine the damage, imagine the horrific pain felt, I did, it is beyond all despair, because according to those wrong teachings, nothing can or will save them. The pain is deeper than all the pits of hell can muster. Oh God where are you, one cries out. Only to be told, you are to burn in hell, because God made it that way, Then why do I have a desire to love YOU so, Oh God, where are you in this pain and confusion. One cannot ever change ones sexuality. Can you? Huh, can you.

Posted by Hugh McLoughlin on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:23 PM (EDT):

“la fidanzata”? “il fidanzato”? Pope Francis is not a native Italian speaker. Would he have known the difference? Infallibility is so restricted that he requires an official interpreter in seven or eight languages. I am not sure, but I would hope that serious consideration will be given by Archbishop Parolin to providing one for Italian.

Posted by Robert-Paul LeMay on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:22 PM (EDT):

I am so sick and tired of so-called apologist in this country ever since Francis became bishop of Rome feeling the need to “eplain"to the rest of us poor benighted ignoramouses what Francis “really meant"when he spoke. You Mr. Akin and the likes of Patrick Madrid really ought to get over it. Now that God’s Rotweiller is no longer pope and the baby kissing politician before him is gone you are terrified that this one won’t shoving dogma down our throats like some nauseating medicine. As Francis is supposed to have said just before stepping onto the balcony to speak to the people as he declined the red shoes, shades of Dorothy and Oz, and the ermine cape, “Athe circus is over.” So is being spoon fed by apologists who wouldn’t know the love of Christ if they stumbled over it. Please God that bishop Francis lives long enough to rid us of the apartchiks in the Church.

Posted by BRG on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:19 PM (EDT):

I’m was created as a result of rape. I trust that God knows best and I love the Catholic faith. I think Pope Francis is a wonderful faithful leader. Please give him the benefit of the doubt.

Posted by Thea Bea on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 6:00 PM (EDT):

to Russell Wesley: God bless you for your faith and courage, and your example of charity.

Yes, the Pope is speaking without looking at himself in the mirror of the media, which is a funhouse mirror. He is just speaking truth from his experience; but just as in Jesus’time, of those who followed him, some listened, some came to look for trouble, some twisted his words (ie rebuilding the temple in 3 days). As for teaching children of irregular situations: I feel glad he has spelled it out so well. In my day, teachers be they nuns or not, would treat one differently based on ones’parental situation. Before ever a word of the Gospel is spoken, the child has already learned what these people really believe. Such a child is already fragile. The church could be a well-remembered refuge of normality and example of holiness. Unless. Unless some teacher, unaware of his or her own judgements, communicates that to an innocent child simply seeking acceptance, learning and faith. It will be remembered forever, and a negative experience will always leave the echo, as the psalm says: “where is your God?” An experience that will have to be somehow contradicted for the rest of the child’s life, if holiness and faith is to grow. Teaching is not an easy task. Daily prayer, as well for anyone living as wheat in the midst of weeds, which our Lord said, not to tear them up for fear of losing the wheat as well. Deep reflection and prayer is needed.

Posted by Sygurd on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:46 PM (EDT):

The usual once again: confused and confusing translations, the media manipulation and the pope’s habitual imprecision. What else’s new?

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:43 PM (EDT):

Mr. Wesley,
I believe that Dale may be confused because you are identifying yourself based on your same-gender inclination, which he probably infers to mean that you aren’t trying to live a chaste life.
I infer that you are, based on what you’ve written, so far. But, maybe a clarification is in order. Not that Dale will believe it, but, you never know.
God Bless!

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:37 PM (EDT):

I never said that I was a sexually active person. I am not. But that does not make me NOT gay any more, still am, always will be. Just like a straight person that is not married, and is not sexually active, maybe a virgin till death, that person still is heterosexual. Sex and sexuality are two totally different things. Though the type of sexual behavior thus ensuing may differ, and does. Not doing it, does not change one sexuality, ever. Living a good wholesome lifestyle is what counts. Hey, St. Paul said it was better even to NOT be married. So maybe a lot of people should not. If they do not marry, that does not give permission to go out and engage in sexual activity.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:30 PM (EDT):

Another one stating a non truth. NO WHERE does it say Gay people are an abomination, repeat NO WHERE, will you find that. Please read the scripture, won’t find such words. It does state that the act of gay sex is an abomination, NOT the person who is gay. I love the Lord with all my heart, and I heard such stuff growing up, and even still hear it, that gay people are all going to hell. Do you have any idea of the horrible pain that caused in my life, and does so to all the other gay people. To be told we are created for one purpose, to burn in hell as sinners worse than Hitler. Please do not spread false teaching, filled with ignorance, that then breeds HATE. And total despairing, hopeless, darkness to gay people. No wonder so many cannot find acceptance in the church. And leave, cause what is the point if all gay people are created for hellfire, no matter what one does. Flies in face of scripture and Christ’s words. If you want gay people, as well as shacked up hetero people to change their ways, good, real good, but sin is sin, both hetero and homo do it. All are capable of sin. But, we do not have to do such. Be kind to gays and shacked up heteros and other ones, parents of IVF kids, etc. welcome them into church, and with time people will change their ways, and then become righteous and holy persons. The goal of Jesus I believe, for us to get to be that way. So as all can come to be with him in Heaven. Praise be to God!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:23 PM (EDT):

@Jo,“Nick, God does not lie nor deceive. That is left to satan.”
On this, we completely agree.“She never questioned God.”
Yes, but was she never tempted? Christ the Lord was tempted, was He not? I can only imagine the attacks Our Lady received by Satan at Cavalry. Have you never meditated on this while praying the Fifth Sorrowful Mystery of the Most Holy Rosary? It would not be a sin, nor blasphemy, for Our Lady to have been tempted to say she’d been deceived at the foot of the Cross.
But, again, Pope Francis never said that she did. He only speculated on what might have went through her mind for those three hours. You are free to disagree with the Holy Father’s opinion.
But, to call what he said “heresy” and “blasphemy” is completely over the top, in my opinion.
God Bless!

@Dale,
The only people who are “dividing the faith” are those who are taking what the LameStreamMedia report as gospel, or, who are ALWAYS willing to believe that Pope Francis has bad intent in what he says. They pick apart everything he says, hoping to find proof for their firm belief that the Holy Father is a liberal, a dissenter, the antipope, etc. They have already convicted him, all they need is to twist his words in order to confirm their suspicions.
Reminds me of what the Pharisees did at Christ’s trial before Caiaphas, twisting His words about rebuilding His Temple, i.e., His Body.
This is what happens when you think that you’re holier than the Messiah, or, that you’re more Catholic than the pope.
God Bless!

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 5:10 PM (EDT):

What God said. Not Frank the hippie pope. They are not really the same. Sorry. Homosexuality is an abomination to God, even Pope Frank doesn’t agree with God’s word.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:54 PM (EDT):

To the comment to me about that I cannot be gay and in Christ. Do you not hear what our Holy father says, or even church teaching. The church teaches that SEX outside of a sacramental marriage is sinful. Whether it be hetero or homo, it is sinful. NOT the person. We are all capable of committing a variety of sins, that does not make us outside of Christ. Living in a state of grace is where we are to be. WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT BEING GAY AND NOT BEING ABLE TO BE IN CHRIST IS SO WRONG. THAT IS SAYING ALL GAY PEOPLE WILL GO TO HELL, JUST BECAUSE WE ARE, GAY. NO, NO, NO. IT IS THE SIN THAT SEPERATES A PERSON FROM CHRIST, NOT THE PERSON.

Posted by sarah mac on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:33 PM (EDT):

When Jesus says “my God my God why have you abandoned me?” he is quoting psalm 22. In it, the prayer laments his abandonment/misery but goes on to say (I paraphrase) that in spite of his misery, he will remain loyal to God because His will is perfect and though he is abandoned in this moment, his faith will ultimately unite him to God’s glory. Read the whole psalm, Jesus likely only quoted it partially because He was in a great deal of pain on the cross.
This is a great prayer when life stinks. Yes, sometimes life stinks, but I know if I hold true, I will not be disappointed in the end.

Posted by Hlyghst on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:31 PM (EDT):

Randy: Since John Paul II, the Church has instituted guidelines for parishes throughout the country for screening and reporting suspected sexual abuse of children and adolescents by homosexual priests. Our church paper publishes these on a regular basis. Since the late 1980’s, there has been a significant decrease in the number of abusive priests. The incidence of sexual abuse by teachers in public schools today has been estimated to be “more than 100 times” that by Catholic priests. So it’s disingenuous to say the Catholic church has done nothing to combat homosexual abuse in the priesthood.

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:21 PM (EDT):

Russell, you can’t be gay and in Christ. You would have to give up your proclivity for God must come first, not your flesh and perversion.

Posted by sarah mac on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:19 PM (EDT):

Randy, sin is always bad. Abuse, bad. Rape, bad. But sin comes from OUR free will. Sin is man turning away from God. God does not interfere with free will but He can, by His will, bring peace, send grace and strength, and yes, create life. He does not welcome the “bad” but when we foolishly and carelessly sin He often does something to remind us of His love and mercy.

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:18 PM (EDT):

@Nick Yes—every time this Pope who gets more popular with the anti Christ crowd and needs many to “interpret what he really meant,” we are going to go through this. Again and again and again. Seems like many faithful are growing tired of his work for the perverted and the antiChrist—against the struggling faithful—the only outcome is he is more popular with them—he has converted none but doing a great job dividing this faith.

Posted by Russell Wesley on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 4:12 PM (EDT):

I as a gay person, who is devoutly catholic, and loves our Lord Jesus, [out of the way ] I do not find anything Pope Francis said to be difficult to understand. I have a niece with a pack of daughters, from a whole lot of different fathers, same with all their half/step and what ever other form of where they came to be, Tow come to mass with me, and I myself must find ways to teach them about good family values and love between husbands and wives. And their own future husbands. All without turning them against their faith, which they have embraced. It seems to fall to me, their gay uncle, to guide them on a path of righteousness. Seems to be working, pray for them, and me, and my guidance of them. They are surly not getting any from their ‘family shrub’ not a tree. Even the kids of gay parents need no different teaching, than do kids from broken families, shacked up parents, illegitimate kids in there too. Yes it is and will be difficult, but it can and must be done with gentle love, and true teaching. To end up putting a stop to all this mess. The Pope’s message is NOT difficult to understand.

Posted by Jo on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:53 PM (EDT):

Nick, God does not lie nor deceive. That is left to satan. Our Blessed Mother only said, “Thy will be done.” She never questioned God. Lighten up? I cannot on this issue. Not only is it heresy, it is Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by implying God might deceive. May God bless you and open your eyes.

Posted by bill russell on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:48 PM (EDT):

According to “Civilta Cattolica”, the Holy Father spent three and a half hours with major superiors of men’s religious orders and did not once mention sodomy. - Amazing.

Posted by Mary on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:44 PM (EDT):

“It’s very difficult to tell a child that he/she is the result of sin.”

Statistically, the odds are that the girl in question is not the result of sin. Yes, there are lesbian couples where one woman procures a child by means of artificial means, and they double down by lying about and claiming the child is both of theirs. But the overwhelming bulk of children being raised by homosexual couples are the fruits of one partner’s previous heterosexual union and usually of their marriages.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:43 PM (EDT):

Jo,
What, precisely, is the “heresy” spoken by Pope Francis? That Our Lady may have questioned the promise made to her by God? That is not a sin.
Did not Christ cry out, ““Eli, Eli, la’ma sabach-tha’ni?” that is, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”
The Holy Father is speculating. Not proclaiming a dogma. Lighten up, okay?
God Bless!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:23 PM (EDT):

Do we have to go through this, again, Dale?
All of you who are attacking the Holy Father for things he didn’t say, but, which you have inferred (with no good reason), are no different than well-known dissenting, cafeteria-Catholics like Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Joe Biden, and the late Ted Kennedy.
Think before you type, okay?

Posted by Jo on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 3:15 PM (EDT):

Jimmy, I’d like your opinion on what Mr. Bergoglio really had to say when he said this December 30, 2013 about the Mother of God: Mary, he said, is ” the perfect icon of silence ... how many times she remained quiet and how many times she did not say that which she felt in order to guard the mystery of her relationship with her Son,” up until the most raw silence “at the foot of the cross” “The Gospel does not tell us anything: if she spoke a word or not… She was silent, but in her heart, how many things told the Lord! ‘You, that day, this and the other that we read, you had told me that he would be great, you had told me that you would have given him the throne of David, his forefather, that he would have reigned forever and now I see him there!’ Our Lady was human! And perhaps she even had the desire to say: ‘Lies! I was deceived!’ John Paul II would say this, speaking about Our Lady in that moment. But she, with her silence, hid the mystery that she did not understand and with this silence allowed for this mystery to grow and blossom in hope”. THIS IS PURE HERESY!!

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 2:38 PM (EDT):

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/
Go here and look at what a “model” gay couple did to their “son.” Sick.

While I understand that Pope Francis’s native tongue is Spanish, there should be someone who’s fluent in Spanish and English to do a better job of translation. If that is not the problem, someone should suggest to Pope Francis that he focus more on clarity. Otherwise, whatever he says can be misinterpreted by the media and others, culminating in a great disservice to Pope Francis who’s trying to communicate important information to the world. You wonder if maybe people around him are afraid to speak up and offer to help him out.

Posted by Geo on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 1:52 PM (EDT):

In which Mr. Akin again has to go back and cover the tracks left by a pope who never let clear thought get in the way of a provocative statement. This man is not helping the Church. The great number of people who express love for this pope love Francis, precisely, not the Faith he is supposed to be teaching. Hopefully the Pope Francis personality cult will fade away soon.

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 1:49 PM (EDT):

Loren Pecore,
If you have read Mr. Akin’s whole article, as it appears that you have, then, you know that we don’t have a transcription of what Pope Francis said, but, rather, a report by Antonio Spadaro, S.J.
So, the first question would be are Fr. Spadaro’s quotations accurate?
If so, are they complete and in context? Next, is the translation accurate.
Mr. Akin tried to address these questions the best that he could. Based on all the evidence, “It doesn’t look like it to me” seems to be the best answer one may give, does it not?
How is Pope Francis responsible for the reports of what he said, if they are not accurate or complete? Like the interview he did with the atheist reporter? Remember?
Mr. Akin was, as we all should, giving the Holy Father the benefit of the doubt, since there is a clear lack of evidence to support the sensational headlines.
Where is your evidence that His Holiness was not being “clear” in this three hour discussion? Were you there?
God Bless!

Posted by Allan Wafkowski on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 1:45 PM (EDT):

Has there every been a more unclear pope?

Posted by Loren Pecore on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 1:33 PM (EDT):

The heart of the usual problem with interpreting Francis’ comments is summed up in the first line of Akin’s 5th point whre he writes, “It doesn’t look like it to me.” It’s Akin’s opinion that Pope Francis is not calling for a new way of looking at homosexuality and the children of homosexual couples. And he makes a good argument for that opinion. But Akin in effect admits he isn’t absolutely certain. Others have interpreted the Pope’s comments differently. Why the confusion? Why the need to agonize over the meaning of the Pope’s comments? Why aren’t the Pope’s thoughts on such an important and contentious moral issue clear and understood equally by everyone?

God bless Pope Francis, and may one of those blessings be a little more concern for the absolute precision required of spoken and written words today to insure that they’re crystal clear and not easily twisted!

Posted by Nick from Detroit on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 1:08 PM (EDT):

Randy,
Yes, it is a long-held Christian tenet that God allows evil, because of free will, in order that a greater good may come of it.
You don’t really know much about Christianity, do you, Randy?
Try reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p4.htm
God Bless!

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:59 PM (EDT):

Here we go again. Francis making sure everyone on the side of the antiChrist likes him at the expense of the faithful and against the Word of God.

Posted by Dale on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:58 PM (EDT):

@Randy Yes the abuse happened in the church. But remember, it was homosexuals who got in. It was men going after younger men and kids of the same sex. It was a homosexual problem. The church didn’t endorse it like the Episcopalians endorse same sex everything against the Word of God!

Posted by Randy on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:48 PM (EDT):

SSarah. So your “god takes something bad and turns it into something good” . So there was something good from the kids being abused by priests? Or the 10 million kids who die from hunger each year?

Posted by Petro Muluha on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:26 PM (EDT):

The Pope is is ultimately the Holy Spirit’s appointment by faith and cannot be aTERMITE. So far Pope Francis has taught nothing that goes against Church teaching, in fact, he has made it simpler to understand. But I guess, from one or two comments above, I understand why the need to be on the defensive is necessary. What Jesus needs is mercy, not sacrifice.

Posted by sarah mac on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:16 PM (EDT):

Children often discover that they can visibly see their parents committing sins. Whether it’s stealing cable, shacking up with a lover, or failing to attend Sunday mass, it’s always a difficult situation for the educator. It’s important to convey 3 things:
1 You are not responsible for another’s sin. You can inform them, but you cannot force them into anything,parents included.
2 There are instances when God wills that in spite of sin, He can create good. For example, if a child is the result of rape, s/he is not the sin. Rather God works to take suffering and misery and bring us something good. I think of it as a big middle finger to Satan: you want to mess with my plan, I’ll show you up by creating life.
3 Last that no matter what our circumstances - God loves us for who we are and He is always calling us home!

Posted by irksome1 on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:40 AM (EDT):

What’s fascinating to me is how when the pope asks us to think about a certain issue or discuss it, many of the faithful (often the most vocal) use that as an opportunity to discuss the pope himself, rather than the issue he’s asked us to discuss. Has it struck no one that the girl with the lesbian mother in the pope’s example would risk being expelled from a Catholic school if she brought this same concern to one of her teachers? The Catholic press certainly spilled a lot of ink defending just such a decision in Colorado a few years ago. Absent from this discussion so far is the compliance with the pope’s actual request, that is, how we might bring the Gospel to such children. That the preferred topic seems to be the pope himself, endlessly parsing his remarks or determining how much of a threat he is to the Church, rather than demonstrating obedience and discussing how to evangelize children like the one in the pope’s example, seems to me the far graver threat to the health and welfare of the Church.

Posted by robert waligora on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:40 AM (EDT):

tom in az….sorry that my posts are not up to your intellectual standards

Posted by JohnE on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 11:35 AM (EDT):

Being a man in a natural but not sacramental marriage, I can understand the trickiness of the situation. If my sons are called to marriage, I hope they marry Catholic women—for their own sake in having the grace of that sacrament and for the good of their children. At the same time I don’t want to give the impression to them that I don’t love my wife or am being judgmental of the eternal state of her soul.

As far as Pope Francis goes, it pains me that he is so easily misunderstood. So was Jesus though. It seems to me that some intentionally misinterpret what he says in order to achieve an agenda, but this only adds to others’ genuine confusion. It seems that Pope Francis focuses on a particular issue, such as educating people in the faith in the modern world, and others focus on how they can take some tangent as a justification for immoral behavior.

I think Pope Francis really wants to reach sinners by focusing on making the tree healthy instead of just picking off bad fruit. In today’s culture wars it can come across as pandering or wimpy. But to start with hot-button topics would close things off to those who most need to hear the gospel before the process could even begin.

Posted by Jeeno Jose on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:07 AM (EDT):

Dear Jimmy Akin

Why couldn’t we tell the child, if prudence allows after the understanding of situation, that you have to chose between good and evil and ultimately the child picks up the good? I don’t think Pope Francis will discourage doing this. The other way of gradual formation requires the child to be in contact with the educator for a sufficient period of time.

Posted by Tom in AZ on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 10:06 AM (EDT):

@robert waligora: The only reason anyone is explaining anything Pope Francis says is that many people, like yourself, either through jaw-dropping stupidity or willful maliciousness, misinterpret him. I have never needed one of his remarks explained; they are all both perfectly clear and, by the bye, completely orthodox. Am I just that much smarter than you? Or do you delude yourself that he is saying things other than his literal words? Do even you believe your nonsense? And he’s yet to tell Africa it has the prison resources to abolish executions, or to kneel toward Mecca and kiss a Qu’ran; where was your froth-mouth prognostication when John Paul II was our Pope?
-
PS: “Let’s not be naïve, we’re not talking about a simple political battle; it is a destructive pretension against the plan of God. We are not talking about a mere bill, but rather a machination of the Father of Lies that seeks to confuse and deceive the children of God.”—Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio on gay marriage. Your last line is practically QUOTING him, you intellectual titan!

Posted by Flip Van Dyke on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:59 AM (EDT):

Close, Robert. He is the false prophet, foretold. As you say, it has become obvious to you but I wonder why so many others agree with this ‘inside job’ by the masons. I’m no theologian, but NOTHING COULD BE MORE OBVIOUS.

Posted by robert waligora on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 9:30 AM (EDT):

I have refrained from commenting on Pope Francis and his remarks for a while now…watching various bloggers clarify Pope Francis and his remarks time after time, and well I have had it. I have never seen such clarifications on any Popes words as has been done with Pope Francis. Pope Francis is a TERMITE in the Catholic Church..eating away at the very foundations of the 2014 year history of the Church. Writers can offer their weekly interpretations of what this Pope really really really means this time, but enough is enough. Homosexual unions are nothing BUT SATANS DIRECT ATTACK ON THE MARRAIGE OF BLESSED MARY AND ST. JOSEPH..PERIOD!..as I stated earlier POPE FRANCIS IS A TERMITE IN THE CHURCH!

Posted by Petro Muluha on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:53 AM (EDT):

For some reason, I get the feeling that Catholics are becoming defensive whenever the Pope speaks out. We shouldn’t be defensive but should explain exactly what he means. Whether it is an accurate transcript or not has never been of concern until we got Pope Francis. He is simply saying, or the record is simply stating, that we should have a heart when dealing with those from same sex marriages. Previously, he told us not to judge those in same sex relationships, or those who believe they are homosexual. I take it as simply as that and am aware it is in line with my faith.

I think the one thing Pope Francis has been doing is to bring out those aspects of our faith which we have been scared to bring out because we fear that our faith will be misunderstood. Remember, however, that he has the keys of Peter and the necessary Grace of State (not just State of Grace) to preach the Gospel.

Posted by Tom in AZ on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:18 AM (EDT):

@Randy: I assume you leave TEN TIMES as many of these troll-droppings on the websites of public teachers? And three times as many on Jewish sites? That’s the rates of abuse by those two groups, relative to priests. Oh, except the Catholic Church has COMPLETELY changed every policy, so that abuse and cover up will not happen again; the abuse of your precious scandal was 30-40 years ago. Meanwhile, schools and rabbis continue to cover up currently-occurring abuse.
-
Why the disparity, Randy? Why do you pick on Catholics, the least guilty, and that long ago, when other groups not only had higher rates, but CONTINUE those rates, and CONTINUE their coverups? When you condemn a group for things it never did more than other groups, far less than some, and has effectively ceased to do AT ALL, while not condemning those other groups, people start to think you don’t care about bad actions, you only care about your hatred for one group.

Posted by Christophe on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:18 AM (EDT):

Another column by Jimmy explaining what the pope really means.

Posted by pierluigi on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 8:07 AM (EDT):

Hi

please note that in italian the word Fidanzata always means lover. It is NOT like in english where girlfriend may mean a female friend or a lover. In Italian it always means Lover/Fiancee. Always.

Equally the masculine noun Findanzato, always refers to a male lover/fiance, never to a friend.

Thanks

Posted by bh95 on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 7:09 AM (EDT):

It’s very difficult to tell a child that he/she is the result of sin. Really bad sin. It is as true for IVF as it is for homosexual couples, and oh dear, what if it’s a lesbian couple who USED IVF (rather than adopting)? You are trying to communicate the message that “your God’s child even though your parents committed a sinful act,” which roughly translates to “if they had acted morally, the right result would be for you not to be here.” Good luck with that.

This is a SIGNIFICANT challenge and it’s no wonder the Church simply doesn’t want homosexual relationships, IVF, etc., that are difficult things to deal with. As a returning Catholic (not gay) parent of IVF babies (I honestly did not know, I wasn’t really into God at the time), this is the one hesitation I have about raising my beautiful daughters Catholic. Somehow or other, we’ve got to find a better message to convey.

Posted by Randy on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:43 AM (EDT):

He should be talking about the harm done to the kids by the bishops and cardinals who covered up the sex abuse and how they will be dealt with since the last two popes failed to do so! Oh yea, there were quite a few who voted him in!! The “old boys club ” is alive and well in the catholic church!!

I wish the pope would just be more clear. Say something like “while the Church doesn’t agree with SS “marriage”, we welcome all people, especially children, who are seeking truth and seeking Christ”.

Why doesn’t he clarify things a lot more, instead of letting the media have their way with his words?

Posted by Mark on Sunday, Jan 5, 2014 12:00 AM (EDT):

Jimmy,

Just for your records, “AFP” stands for L’Agence France-Presse.

“American Free Press” is closely linked with the old “militia” types from the 80s and 90s (the type of journalism you’d hear on “news/talk programs” broadcast on Shortwave Radio back in the day) [see here for reference (yes, I know it’s Wikipedia): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Free_Press]

Just sayin’

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About Jimmy Akin

Jimmy was born in Texas, grew up nominally Protestant, but at age 20 experienced a profound conversion to Christ. Planning on becoming a Protestant pastor or seminary professor, he started an intensive study of the Bible. But the more he immersed himself in Scripture the more he found to support the Catholic faith. Eventually, he entered the Catholic Church. His conversion story, "A Triumph and a Tragedy," is published in Surprised by Truth. Besides being an author, Jimmy is a Senior Apologist at Catholic Answers, a contributing editor to This Rock magazine, and a weekly guest on "Catholic Answers Live."